{"total":{"value":110,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2025-11-12"],"total_page":2,"ivods":[{"id":"165233","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165233","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe39ff47acb371395c9906ee7c1e9a76e5a4cf7b889f21dc7b789e2bfcd57ebc68f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林德福","委員發言時間":"09:11:26 - 09:22:15","影片長度":"00:10:49","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:11:26+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:22:15+08:00","duration":649,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.5115937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.9790937500000005,"end":9.480968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.869093750000001,"end":12.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.31159375,"end":14.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.98596875,"end":19.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.605968750000002,"end":56.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.76471875,"end":63.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.91971875,"end":66.11346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.67034375,"end":67.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.59846875000001,"end":80.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.40659375,"end":81.28409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.45721875000001,"end":88.67534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.08034375000001,"end":91.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.57784375,"end":99.23909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.44159375000001,"end":99.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.35284375,"end":108.25034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.62159375,"end":111.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.67596875000001,"end":130.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.10909375000001,"end":121.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.11596875,"end":136.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.49909375000001,"end":138.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.47346875,"end":145.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.11784375000002,"end":146.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.20221875000001,"end":156.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.78284375,"end":160.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.52909375000002,"end":163.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.98846875,"end":167.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.01346875000002,"end":166.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.97534375,"end":167.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.92034375,"end":180.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.18409375000002,"end":182.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.00659375,"end":191.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.15284375000002,"end":194.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.38034375,"end":199.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.23596875,"end":211.42409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.93034375000002,"end":224.90721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.17721875,"end":237.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.76159375,"end":241.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.61346875,"end":251.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.31659375,"end":253.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.30784375000002,"end":259.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.71596875,"end":262.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.75784375,"end":263.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.90534375000004,"end":272.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.32596875,"end":280.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.37659375000004,"end":273.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.11909375,"end":273.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.44284375,"end":284.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.91471875,"end":286.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.33221875000004,"end":288.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.77909375,"end":292.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.28471875,"end":296.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.60471875,"end":298.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.59596875,"end":305.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.46409375,"end":310.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.34534375000004,"end":315.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.93096875000003,"end":322.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.66409375,"end":323.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.21659375,"end":325.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.73534375,"end":334.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.98284375000003,"end":339.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.56846875,"end":350.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.10284375000003,"end":351.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.09409375,"end":355.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.67159375,"end":358.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.29971875,"end":361.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.59471875,"end":365.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.69534375,"end":370.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.06159375000004,"end":380.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.35971875,"end":380.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.18659375000004,"end":407.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.57909375,"end":408.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.65909375,"end":412.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.10159375,"end":416.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.13034375,"end":423.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.54284375000003,"end":427.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.57596875,"end":429.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.76971875000004,"end":449.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.93534375,"end":453.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.77034375000005,"end":453.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.05721875,"end":456.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.53346875000005,"end":464.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.75159375000004,"end":475.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.83846875,"end":485.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.89596875,"end":487.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.54971875,"end":497.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.55659375000005,"end":516.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.80096875000004,"end":499.91909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.95284375000006,"end":500.02034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.03721875,"end":500.05409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.07096875,"end":500.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.5915937500001,"end":540.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.5203437499999,"end":556.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.2265937500001,"end":566.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.6765937499999,"end":567.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.43596875,"end":572.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.3972187500001,"end":579.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.38346875,"end":581.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.9822187500001,"end":584.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.15471875,"end":587.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.3272187499999,"end":591.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.2422187500001,"end":594.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.87471875,"end":599.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.07221875,"end":602.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.0422187500001,"end":605.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.06284375,"end":623.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.0390937500001,"end":631.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.6928437500001,"end":626.7178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.2865937500001,"end":633.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.82221875,"end":634.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.34096875,"end":643.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.91346875,"end":648.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.0478437500001,"end":650.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.91659375,"end":650.96721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.129,"end":14.126,"text":"第一位的林德福委員質詢謝謝 謝謝主席是不是請那個金管會彭主委好 請彭主委"},{"start":18.018,"end":45.839,"text":"委員長主委你好那個我想原本傳出這個衛福部明年將修法就是有關於健保補充費打算把租金利息還有鼓勵所得或收入的部分改採年度來計算一年累計超過2萬元就會收取2.11%補充保費那結果沒有隔多久因為行政院就出面來滅火"},{"start":48.121,"end":65.307,"text":"那暫緩規劃 主委當天政局署密被問到這件事回答我們也是才剛看到這個版本那會了解是否對股民有影響再與衛福部來溝通"},{"start":67.681,"end":81.106,"text":"請問那個主委你認為這個食從糧食部長對補充保惠的言論真的是無地放肆嗎還是有目的性的釋出政策的風向球我想我也"},{"start":81.926,"end":108.736,"text":"我也不方便替衛福部部長回答這問題不過他們已經在很多的場合已經做公開的說明這是還在政策演繹中我們金管會當然會本於我們的職權提供我們專業的意見未來如果還繼續討論的話我們會提供我們的意見給衛福部參考主委啊因為衛福部對於跨部會性質的政策擅自提出看法不論有沒有目的請問你認為這樣適當嗎"},{"start":111.721,"end":130.455,"text":"我想任何的溝通都是必要的啦因為尤其是很多的問題其實非常的複雜我們也希望能夠把這個制度做得盡善盡美我想外部部有他專業的考量但是我說假設涉及到資本市場的話我們非常樂意也非常也必須要提供一些必要的訊息"},{"start":131.338,"end":144.186,"text":"對啊 因為這個要跨部會而且這個要跨部會研究以後到底適不適當再來提出來結果如果是你的話你會採取這種方式嗎"},{"start":146.164,"end":167.598,"text":"我剛剛跟委員報告過了任何的政策就是要應該要多多的溝通因為其實很多很複雜希望能夠盡善盡美我想這是我們在執行這些的時候我們大概至少我覺得這是應該多溝通把各種的狀況多了解應該會做出更實時需要的政策"},{"start":168.018,"end":181.613,"text":"又或者這次的補充法會提出年度採記的這種言論衛福部是不是已經啊你認為有沒有涉及到政交法第155條第一項第6款的行為"},{"start":183.072,"end":211.313,"text":"禁止的違反因為金管會是不是會以股市突應的標準去判斷有沒有違法存在你的看法呢我想委員剛剛講其實這個事情我想衛福部他已經做過很多的說明他還是在政策研議的過程當中那我想這部分是因為他已經做這個說明剛剛委員提到115的話他有很認定的非常複雜的這樣的一個條件我想這應該是不至於啦"},{"start":212.374,"end":236.444,"text":"主委如果按照衛福部長現任政務委員過去的陳時中的說法事實上檢討健保補充保費調整課徵早就不是秘密換句話說恐怕未來勢在必行補充保費的改革規劃陳時中說制度需要精算討論"},{"start":238.82,"end":256.451,"text":"必然要思考 額度 兼顧它的量能互惠以這個傑戶濟貧的精神調整才有意義那我請問主委以您對股市投資獲利的了解你認為有辦法能夠明確區別誰是貧 誰是戶嗎有沒有辦法"},{"start":263.936,"end":291.911,"text":"我想我們從資本市場來看剛剛委員提到就是有關健保財務的問題這不是我們金管會的專業啦所以我們也沒辦法待會說明剛剛講任何一件比如說這樣對於我們的交易行為的這些判斷有影響當然只是說有影響影響有多大這件事情我覺得都要經過深入的評估才會知道主委換句話說考量統計總所得調高門檻到一定的程度就一定能夠"},{"start":293.342,"end":297.778,"text":"判斷出他合理的標準嗎因您看法呢我想這個"},{"start":299.633,"end":299.673,"text":"這樣齁 主委"},{"start":324.309,"end":339.083,"text":"金管會推動普惠金融也參考G20普惠金融指標體系建制國內普惠金融衡量以及觀察指標"},{"start":340.629,"end":358.383,"text":"那我請問主委如果從指標結果所代表的數據內容你認為國內普惠金融和國外普惠金融推動上有沒有什麼差異之處我想普惠金融是一個概念根據不同的地區國家它有不一樣它落實的地方"},{"start":359.364,"end":379.842,"text":"像比如說我過去研究很多的像有關的微型保險的部分他其實各個國家在做這個事雖然都是叫做微型保險但他做的方法完全不同使用的場景完全不同那我想這是一個概念希望我們的金融服務能夠讓每一個不同的群體都能夠得到公平的對待我想是要精神是這樣每個國家是不太一樣"},{"start":380.424,"end":407.795,"text":"主委因為推動普惠金融的核心目標就是要讓社會上所有階層特別是弱勢群體這個農村地區和微小企業都能夠平等享有整個金融的服務以促進整個經濟的成長創造就業機會和提升社會的福祉那我請問主委你認為台灣在普惠金融推動上做"},{"start":409.4,"end":431.257,"text":"做得最好的是哪方面你認為呢我想普惠金融其實我覺得最近這幾年來觀察不管是我們的保險業還有就是銀行業其實還有我們的證券相關產業對這個都非常的重視比如說我剛才講剛才提到就是我們整個在交易的部分我們對各種的投資人越來越友善像比如說我們的保險部分"},{"start":431.937,"end":455.738,"text":"各家公司都很主動的推出很多的這樣一個保險包括像很多的投保的方式更為友善還就是像微型保險小兒中老保險這些都是像銀行在各個地方偏鄉地方所提供的服務我想還有對一些弱勢群體所做的努力我們每年去看的結果都覺得銀行真的非常用心但是還是很多努力的方向對 你有帶加強的部分有哪些你認為呢"},{"start":456.599,"end":485.207,"text":"其實我們像我們最近常常每年我們大概都會跟一些我們的各種帳別的團體去我們的銀行的據點去看比如說他們很多地方小地方因為我們是正常人我們很難理解他們的需求像這一部分我覺得每年都有進步但是每年有進步代表說其實未來都還有進步的空間像剛才講像我們今年小兒中老保險我們的微型保險有納入我們的新住民其實我們看到社會的變遷有關注到其他的需求我們就把它納入"},{"start":486.447,"end":505.661,"text":"會一直持續來做這樣喔那請問主委推動普惠金融你認為要建立在哪些條件上才能夠發揮減少貧富差距的功能呢我覺得最重要還是一個同理心就是因為我們大部分的金融機構都是盈利事業盈利事業會以業績獲利為主要的考量"},{"start":506.261,"end":516.293,"text":"通常這些普惠金融對象都不是他主要的課程這往往很容易在他們經營策略上被忽略所以這時候就必須要政策的來觸發跟觸動他們做這件事情"},{"start":516.65,"end":537.709,"text":"主委事實上以本席的認知在國內目前要讓普惠金融深化更多數的民眾首要解決的問題就是無所不在的詐騙方式和手段主委按照銀行局長童振章的說法金融主詐已經射出五箭"},{"start":540.672,"end":556.075,"text":"包含科技主柵、精純主柵、協力主柵、臨櫃主柵、責任主柵藉由全力做好來阻止張款流向面的金流方向"},{"start":557.287,"end":570.952,"text":"以做到精準打擊詐騙的目標那我請問主委目前阻止詐騙的五件你認為有沒有發揮預期的功能性有沒有我想跟委員報告其實銀行端最在意的就是我們警示帳戶的成長率"},{"start":572.512,"end":594.051,"text":"我們從今年到六月平均每年每個月都還持續成長大概三千件左右但是我們從九月開始已經看到了負成長我覺得這也是說這是我們過去這麼多年來監控首次的負成長代表我們這些詐騙的賬戶在減緩減少中我想這也是銀行還有大家努力的一個成果"},{"start":594.912,"end":622.88,"text":"因為那個主委隨著金融環境提升的普惠金融你認為金融主詐未來是不是仍舊有加強或升級的必要有沒有我想這個主詐永遠沒有止境只要有詐騙我們要全力來做方法我們要絕對來持續的優化因為我們也看到社會很多的責難說這些銀行在做主詐的時候就是有過度的部分這我們也是非常非常關注我們要求銀行要持續來做"},{"start":623.2,"end":649.288,"text":"希望這方面能夠加強那當然當然各方面要合作啦其實像那個數位發展部我認為一點功能都沒有一年花那麼多錢那你這個中華民國台灣啊讓人家最最不能就接受的就是變成人家外公的叫做詐騙王國這個是很可恥的很可笑的真的要好好的檢討是是我們一起努力對謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"165252","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165252","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3ce0b37276d64952457c737e12387eef81bffb99621b7826ef1956145e7c495575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"10:05:51 - 10:16:57","影片長度":"00:11:06","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:05:51+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:16:57+08:00","duration":666,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.34284375,"end":4.1822187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.63784375,"end":7.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.818468750000001,"end":9.919718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.240343750000001,"end":17.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.872218750000002,"end":23.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.65221875,"end":21.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.60534375,"end":23.622218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.05659375,"end":30.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.60846875,"end":39.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.463468750000004,"end":41.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.49659375,"end":47.095343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.517218750000005,"end":56.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.28784375,"end":61.236593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.236593750000004,"end":64.86471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.13909375,"end":81.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.98596875,"end":72.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.43284375,"end":75.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.64284375000001,"end":81.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.97596875,"end":82.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.02659375,"end":83.59596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.08534375,"end":157.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.94909375,"end":92.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.67471875000001,"end":92.86034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.17596875000001,"end":98.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.26034375,"end":98.34471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.34471875000001,"end":98.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.82221875,"end":121.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.93971875000001,"end":125.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.96909375000001,"end":126.23909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.69846875000002,"end":157.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.54221875000002,"end":157.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.96409375000002,"end":162.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.31409375,"end":159.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.52034375000002,"end":180.77909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.80721875,"end":162.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.02659375000002,"end":163.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.33034375,"end":163.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.64221875,"end":167.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.54471875000002,"end":170.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.77909375000002,"end":180.79596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.11221875,"end":182.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.36534375000002,"end":189.65534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.06471875000003,"end":190.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.34284375000001,"end":202.96971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.74346875,"end":193.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.74596875,"end":225.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.51471875000001,"end":226.30784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.53159375,"end":226.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.39221875,"end":232.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.02846875,"end":268.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.17909375,"end":267.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.46159375,"end":282.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.42971875,"end":283.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.48034375000003,"end":283.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.22284375000004,"end":286.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.05784375,"end":307.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.66659375,"end":307.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.93221875,"end":308.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.03346875,"end":308.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.53971875,"end":314.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.83846875,"end":320.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.65659375,"end":316.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.53409375,"end":318.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.41971875,"end":335.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.22971875,"end":321.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.22534375000004,"end":322.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.64534375,"end":335.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.97846875000005,"end":336.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.11346875000004,"end":336.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.13034375,"end":346.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.01471875000004,"end":348.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.45346875,"end":361.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.61721875,"end":352.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.18971875,"end":361.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.16846875000005,"end":365.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.03721875,"end":384.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.91034375000004,"end":367.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.17346875000004,"end":384.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.59096875,"end":385.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.62471875,"end":385.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.69221875000005,"end":386.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.02971875000003,"end":397.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.50909375000003,"end":396.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.43721875,"end":399.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.30596875000003,"end":416.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.69159375000004,"end":416.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.97846875000005,"end":417.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.34971875,"end":419.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.74596875000003,"end":428.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.58846875,"end":489.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.54096875000005,"end":489.89534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.89534375000005,"end":489.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.96284375000005,"end":493.65846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.36346875000004,"end":492.42659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.27034375000005,"end":495.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.53596875000005,"end":512.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.05721875000006,"end":507.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.69846875,"end":508.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.99721875,"end":529.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.9397187500001,"end":531.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.38659375,"end":567.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.3640937499999,"end":643.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.93721875,"end":573.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.17346875,"end":573.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.2222187500001,"end":639.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":643.4240937500001,"end":650.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.50846875,"end":644.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.81534375,"end":651.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.38471875,"end":662.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.9734687499999,"end":665.56409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.366,"end":7.589,"text":"今天如果超過85分貝都強制驅離喔德晓主席我們是請這個司法院副秘書長還有法務部次長請王副秘書長還有徐政次還有我們那個廷長 謝謝廷長"},{"start":25.337,"end":40.918,"text":"我先請問一下按照你們的分析現在少年事件大概是哪三類的案件最容易被安置或者是保護管束有沒有這樣的統計"},{"start":45.125,"end":65.434,"text":"謝謝委員的吹詢這個第一類是就是說重視我應該說不要用犯罪來分類先做他的家庭的功能非常脆弱那他已經處罰那處罰有可能比較重有可能比較輕我是說譬如說詐騙或是台人如果案件分析"},{"start":66.414,"end":81.871,"text":"那第一類最多的就是所謂的加入幫派或者加入這個不良組織不良組織因為他這個不隔離不行但是他還沒有到一直去殺人或有非常嚴重的事發生你說的第一種的這種的一般都幾年"},{"start":84.814,"end":94.903,"text":"你說安置嗎安置是延長兩年總共四年所以我們可以延長到四年的安置安置是比較柔軟的教育輔導這是第一種第二種就是已經都一直在販毒集團裡面做這些運送小弟這個不隔離不行家庭無功能你讓他回去不行的"},{"start":111.357,"end":128.535,"text":"這是那個販毒的罪很重那他有時候是屬於這個幫助那減減減減下來就可以減到三年以下就可以能給他社區處理環形但是家庭無功能應該要安置這是再來就是現在最多的這個"},{"start":130.076,"end":158.655,"text":"就是所謂的剛剛講 詐欺加上性剝削這一類的孩子那他也是因為家庭功能很薄弱所以也需要安置但是我們目前因為這樣的孩子一直在患那要用各種輔導的方案包括就業輔導都效果不彰的時候他又被犯罪集團把它吸收去了所以我們就會隔離到感化院去所以你剛剛提的這三類"},{"start":159.856,"end":180.305,"text":"第一類就加入這種幫派組織對不對那第二種是販毒那第三個是詐騙詐欺的跟性剝削這三類那這三類被安置完之後不管回到家庭或回到哪裡他們再犯了以後又變成哪些類型"},{"start":183.309,"end":202.461,"text":"這一類他因為安置完是會開銜接會議 社政要來我們一起來接那個兒少我們認為他已經準備回到社會或已經回到社會了嘛他年少無知搞不懂然後就被安置了然後之後他又回到社會以後他又再犯最多的是哪幾種"},{"start":204.603,"end":225.95,"text":"類似這一種就是回到家裡我們在銜接的這種安排不夠量能就是各方的效能不足以致他又出去再處罰那通常這一類的又再處罰的嚴重性很重很重通常都是逆送給檢察官就判處徒刑就進入民養中學"},{"start":226.73,"end":244.374,"text":"之後那個類型有沒有改變你剛講那前三大類後來有沒有改變比較不會改變的是販毒的都會繼續去跟毒品集團在一起這一類不太改變那性的部分因為經過很多設計各種可能性的輔導有比較改善他可能會變成一般的這個所謂的加入這個這個詐欺等等"},{"start":252.276,"end":275.185,"text":"那詐欺的最容易再犯因為他不願意去工作沒有人督促然後原來我們幫他職業訓練的又被免職掉因為他沒有按時去工作那這個時候又變成開始又吸收到犯罪集團為什麼先問這三類因為今天的所有委員的提案裡頭啊有提到包括你們提的三年內"},{"start":276.405,"end":282.722,"text":"再犯或者是有委員提的五年內嘛對這個三跟五啊你們的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":284.786,"end":307.979,"text":"謝謝委員催省那基本上我們在所有少年國際公約跟我們少事法是希望希望早日去少年的標籤化當我們輔導有效果他這個把它塗銷前岸有利於他回歸社會的工作啊生活等這個是一個非常重要的所以那個山裡面沒有改"},{"start":308.958,"end":319.74,"text":"我們三年 原則上這個可以討論我們沒有說一定這樣對 這是你們的案子裡頭沒有去改三這個沒有改然後有委員改成五對我跟委員報告原來那個輕微處罰我們不務審理家長管教的或轉介的這個以前是兩年我們現在給它拉長三年因為這種家庭這個退家的比較容易再換所以我們拉長三年"},{"start":336.443,"end":345.47,"text":"那第二個是故意嘛我看大家都有這個故意的文字故意的文字裡面看起來應該也沒有什麼爭議就是要把這個故意加進去嘛就是因為你剛剛講說這個他第一次犯可能是有前三大類 對不對然後他如果再犯那再犯的 譬如說再犯那個販毒的"},{"start":358.354,"end":380.865,"text":"跟這一個性的或者是這個詐欺詐騙的這些他再去犯 這個就算故意了故意 故意 故意 對吧 算故意好 那我們要這樣排除是因為很多孩子會去偷開車 偷騎機車那就產生很多事故 這個是過失那這個如果都算進去 尤其有些孩子要去工作他就騎車 這個就去車禍 這個過失 不給他算入"},{"start":386.269,"end":398.406,"text":"那偷東西算不算故意偷東西是故意可是他之前不是這個案子然後後來的這個犯的這個刑法是去偷東西然後是這就算故意嗎 算故意那第三個是"},{"start":400.553,"end":416.459,"text":"關於這一個幾年就是說這個本行就是本行有些委員是說那就是只要有期徒刑的或者是沒有被緩刑的那有些是5年以上的有些是這個幾年以上的這個你們有什麼看法"},{"start":417.663,"end":444.715,"text":"包括委員在目前這五年內整個台灣少年在處罰的部分大量被黑幫或者犯罪集團或者詐團吸收以至於我們在保護管束的過程少年再犯經我們詳細的追蹤普查他都在這些組織裡面所以才會經過非常多的專家諮詢會議跟社會普查意見"},{"start":447.296,"end":461.007,"text":"希望希望在這個時候我們就採取說只要再促法前面的促法執行完畢三年內再促法給他保護處分或行之宣告就不凸消當然這樣"},{"start":463.228,"end":489.406,"text":"有一個憂慮就是說造成他有一個前瞞標籤一直放在身上如果他將來有改善不容易但是至少這五年來發展到現在33%幾乎都是加入幫派或者是集團的有嚇阻作用跟阻止搶小孩的作用但是如果以各位的提案我們也都競表各位討論你們當然都尊重立法院"},{"start":492.568,"end":511.362,"text":"就是說這樣是一個重罪才塗銷的條件一個宣誓的概念就是說這個委員是說譬如你剛剛提到就是只要有有期塗刑就是不能塗對不對那這一個委員的提案是這個要受五年的五年以上的對不對五年以上的政府就不能塗對不對"},{"start":513.049,"end":530.862,"text":"我是意思說有期徒刑跟5年以上這差很多就是說對在犯的那個少年我為什麼提這個是因為他接下來譬如說這些幫派或者是這些詐騙集團他們也很懂法律他可能就教育年輕人"},{"start":532.455,"end":555.021,"text":"教育那些年輕人說你這個其實你犯這個是多少的你犯這個是幾年的所以你還是有機會被塗銷的那你以後就是塗銷以後你就一切清白了所以你來做這個沒關係萬一你可能20歲25歲你就都沒事了就是說這樣的一個宣示的意義跟你剛剛提的是有期徒刑就算的話那這兩個"},{"start":556.98,"end":566.897,"text":"你們現在認為因為你們提出來沒有寫幾年你們就是有期徒刑而已那這個是不是要跟大家再解釋一下為什麼你們會做這樣的一個宣示"},{"start":569.091,"end":588.124,"text":"多年來20年來我國沒有設任何條件都突銷以至於早年校園學生跟一般離校學生被吸收到幫派還沒那麼多但是近五年來高達百分之三十幾的percent有這樣被收集分析"},{"start":588.684,"end":611.737,"text":"那這樣的一個社會變遷跟黑幫跟學校搶小孩還有跟我們的家庭搶小孩所以我們才會主張說是不是就來把整個社會的認知跟學校學生所有各類生活的認知說我們不能利用小孩利用小孩他前來會被留住不利於他復歸社會這個是我們的想法但"},{"start":615.659,"end":642.081,"text":"我也真的要誠實的跟委員報告而全公約說要求各會員國只有少年最嚴重的犯罪才要設條件不塗銷那這樣在很多國家只有定義說幾年徒刑以上或性侵或者是一次嚴重謀殺很多人的才不塗 其他都塗這個是一個政策跟國際公約的衝突"},{"start":644.282,"end":662.008,"text":"這是我們召委提的 這事情要好好討論因為你們今天提的算是很嚴的 其他委員提的就沒有那麼嚴相對而言 所以這事情社會還是要進行溝通 好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165249","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165249","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe34fab6324876a3618fc3112febeb0f1b01bffb99621b7826ee845366a77bfd4645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林憶君","委員發言時間":"10:07:14 - 10:15:34","影片長度":"00:08:20","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢。（11月12日及13日二天一次會））","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:07:14+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:15:34+08:00","duration":500,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.4822187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.69659375,"end":64.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.13471875,"end":169.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.03409375,"end":216.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.03721875000002,"end":176.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.78721875000002,"end":210.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.03096875,"end":295.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.92159375,"end":297.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.45284375,"end":307.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.56096875000003,"end":307.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.76346875,"end":315.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.78034375000004,"end":308.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.59346875,"end":317.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.29784375,"end":343.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.10409375,"end":342.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.32346875,"end":344.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.14159375,"end":409.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.03034375000004,"end":500.40846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.96534375000005,"end":501.97784375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.583,"end":0.603,"text":"來 委員長請"},{"start":6.741,"end":12.463,"text":"林委員早安委員長早本席擔任立委將近兩年也與僑委會一起到國外參加僑台商的總會的會議了解我們這些其實海外辛苦打拼的台商他們是真的很辛苦所以今天本席想要針對僑委會如何協助海外僑台商的產業升級的發展的問題跟委員長就較"},{"start":31.01,"end":34.011,"text":"根據了解 僑委會為了協助海外橋台商企業的發展都會辦理經貿的培訓活動所以從109年開始僑委會就開始辦理了全球橋台商產業升級與技術服務的方案而且還主動邀集了國內14家研發的機構來協助全球的橋台商的產業升級和發展我想請問一下委員長"},{"start":56.676,"end":58.079,"text":"你可以簡單說明一下這些台商升級服務方案的主要的內容還有特色嗎還有怎麼樣的協助他們呢"},{"start":65.485,"end":69.966,"text":"跟委員報告因為過去這個幾年當中疫情期間尤其是因為我們沒辦法做太多跨境的移動當時我們因此從前委員長就想到說要不要運用台灣的這些產學研的這個資訊來提供給海外的台商讓他們能夠增加"},{"start":87.751,"end":90.994,"text":"比方說產品的這個研發提升或者是他們的品牌的塑造等等這一方面的專業領域的協助那麼因此呢這個我們沒有額外再增加任何的預算經費就直接是跟國內的一些產學研的機構呢來請託說我們可不可以做一個平台來媒合大家比方說我們台灣的公研院來說就是一個輔導各種"},{"start":116.934,"end":121.617,"text":"工業、科技、產業最大的一個重鎮嘛那所以他們有非常多很好的研發的一些成果那我們就是介紹我們的這些橋台商讓他們去認識這個平台那麼他們如果有個案要委託給他們的時候這些產學研的單位呢都跟我們有簽一個MOU就是說諮詢階段不收費但是如果要個案委託那就去個案個別評估"},{"start":145.05,"end":147.351,"text":"所以在這個當中 僑委會沒有衍生額外的預算只是說如果僑台商 比方說今天他的產業裡面他這一項產品 他比方是做紡織的他現在這個紡織業 他有很多新的技術一直在提升他是想要拿到這些新的技術的話他就要去跟他們簽約 簽約以後就要付費"},{"start":166.162,"end":171.687,"text":"這個是做這樣子的一個媒合的平台角色而已那我再問一下就是說剛才委員長有說到就是說他們可以簽署一些合作的備忘錄那這樣的話我其實說看了這些就是從109年到114年的7月底就是到7月底的時候協輔的合作研發的機構還有台商組織"},{"start":188.563,"end":192.308,"text":"簽署的合作備忘錄其實數量整個從109年到現在其實才有23件然後今年的114年其實到現在都已經11月了竟然連一件都沒有簽署那成果就是等於是零所以請問一下委員長在一年過去的請問目前有沒有任何最新的具體的實質上面的進展呢"},{"start":209.807,"end":213.55,"text":"為什麼這個經銷會怎麼那麼慘原因到底是什麼還有沒有什麼未來的可以精進作為來解決呢好跟委員說明就是為什麼今年都沒有是因為他們之前都簽完了意思就是說前面這23件呢是都是以國家別或洲際別比方說用"},{"start":229.38,"end":233.162,"text":"亞總亞洲台商總會或者世界台商總會或者泰國台商總會都是以這種組織型態的方式去跟這個產學研的單位去簽這個約但是他們的member他們的會員如果個案要委託那是他們私下的另外有他們自己的合作契約那個部分是要付錢的那備忘錄是不用付錢的"},{"start":256.474,"end":268.7,"text":"只只單單是在諮詢的作用而已那所以個案型的簽約的部分有多少件事實上我們因為產學研單位很多那我們也曾經跟他們詢問他們說有些個資資料他們不能提供是基於這樣所以我們沒有去統計這個資料出來"},{"start":274.463,"end":280.789,"text":"是由於他們要保護他們的這個委託業者所以有些業者願意自己說的我們就會知道那有些業者如果不願意透露那他跟這個工研院啊或者跟這個農研院啊或者跟經研院啊等等這些不同的單位去簽合約的時候我不一定會可以掌握到這個資訊所以我們現在看的114年的話是"},{"start":297.503,"end":301.905,"text":"那因為我們大部分能夠有興趣去簽的這個州總會跟國的總會差不多已經都簽完了啦所以就不會再有了嗎等於是115年之後除非我們再開發一些新的研發單位對他們的產業是有幫助的那可能就會有機會所以未來會往這方面努力嗎"},{"start":317.992,"end":343.219,"text":"我們還會我們會因為台灣是一個講求創新研發的一個這樣的國度那所以我們也會鼓勵我們橋台商說大家尤其現在這個對等關稅發生以後那你的產業鏈重組過程當中事實上你要經營的市場如果是比較高端的那你一定要提升你要提升你就需要這些新的一些研發的這個機制的單位那我再問一下因為時間"},{"start":345.16,"end":369.338,"text":"已經不多了再問一下就是僑委會在105年度的時候是不是有配合當年蔡政府積極推行的新南向政策的計畫僑委會在那一年的時候也規劃了一個財團法人海外信用保證基金配合新南向政策的增資的計畫但是本席根據僑委會海外信用的保證基金提供給本院的預算中心的資料有發現"},{"start":370.279,"end":383.506,"text":"最近的六年來一百零九年到一百一十四年辦理授信的保證金額都在一百一十一年度都達到最高峰然後開始逐年都一直在下降那甚至到今年七月底才承接190"},{"start":385.627,"end":391.93,"text":"那跟過去來比是真的非常差太多了那我只是想請問一下委員長你知道原因是怎麼樣嗎還有就是說你認為如果海外信保基金整體的業績還是都沒有顯著的成長的話那這樣的話僑委會是否會開始考慮停止增資否則會不會又是政府預算的乾坤呢"},{"start":409.519,"end":414.1,"text":"跟委員報告海外信保基金已經成立30多年了早期從財政部金管會最後移給僑委會那僑委會在106年民國106年開始那個是因為配合新南向政策所以當時的吳前委員長時代有跟行政院特別說明說我們的基金規模那時候不到10億那10億的話你可以做到只有100億的這個美金的這個壽性"},{"start":438.064,"end":444.17,"text":"額度而已 因此不夠所以當時行政院就核定了說這個海外信保基金要再加增資20億但是這20億呢 並不是都是公務預算其中4成呢 這個海外信保基金要自己去募款"},{"start":453.118,"end":475.634,"text":"那你募到了國家才給你挹注這個公務基金的撥補所以我們一開始有公股銀行民股銀行第一階段有捐了一些所以我們就根據他捐的這個比例來相對六成的撥補可是到後來因為疫情發生就停止了一段時間那疫情期間確實有很多的小中小型廠商他因為要度過那個急難為救助的狀態"},{"start":479.136,"end":494.823,"text":"所以我們當時有一些專案所以那幾年當中的這個貸款額度相對比較高那今年為什麼低也很簡單是因為大家都在觀望因為從今年四月開始對等關稅以後大家都沒有一個定論所以大家都不願意再投資所以就停在那裡所以這些增資計畫就因此相對的數量減少以上跟委員說明 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165245","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165245","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe31f7139cc9bb64e1ffc3112febeb0f1b01bffb99621b7826ed60c73881cc9b1c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"09:47:00 - 09:59:57","影片長度":"00:12:57","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢。（11月12日及13日二天一次會））","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:47:00+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:59:57+08:00","duration":777,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.06471875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.14471875,"end":2.0559687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.79409375,"end":4.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.41346875,"end":15.707843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.707843750000002,"end":20.871593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.394718750000003,"end":23.082218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.402843750000002,"end":25.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.27596875,"end":28.684718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.452843750000003,"end":29.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.07284375,"end":60.899093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.089718750000003,"end":29.106593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.557218750000004,"end":78.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.17471875000001,"end":79.59659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.13659375,"end":83.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.76471875,"end":83.86596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.88284375,"end":87.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.05971875,"end":94.59846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.76721875000001,"end":107.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.48409375,"end":98.58096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.07846875000001,"end":101.78721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.84596875000001,"end":131.40284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.72284375000001,"end":109.09409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.68846875000001,"end":113.16096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.65409375,"end":117.14346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.75096875000001,"end":118.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.55909375000002,"end":133.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.53346875,"end":143.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.35034375,"end":144.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.02534375000002,"end":146.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.13471875000002,"end":146.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.32034375,"end":149.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.89784375000002,"end":150.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.50534375,"end":159.65159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.27221875,"end":157.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.19596875000002,"end":169.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.03409375,"end":170.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.51909375000002,"end":171.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.71721875,"end":177.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.97784375,"end":179.00721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.00721875000002,"end":180.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.02409375000002,"end":179.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.71596875,"end":190.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.01846875,"end":190.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.98846875,"end":194.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.44784375,"end":213.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.60534375,"end":221.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.77784375000002,"end":216.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.43159375000002,"end":217.76909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.40159375000002,"end":221.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.59971875000002,"end":224.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.14784375000002,"end":230.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.18909375,"end":232.19721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.66159375,"end":237.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.22596875000002,"end":238.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.06534375,"end":251.99159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.09909375,"end":243.04784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.62909375,"end":259.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.97846875000002,"end":255.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.11284375,"end":259.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.53471875,"end":259.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.58534375,"end":259.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.63596875,"end":260.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.31096875000003,"end":260.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.32784375,"end":260.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.36159375,"end":260.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.85096875,"end":260.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.93534375,"end":260.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.96909375,"end":261.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.47534375000004,"end":261.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.49221875,"end":265.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.50909375000003,"end":261.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.87971875,"end":266.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.25096875,"end":267.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.67284375,"end":268.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.96784375000004,"end":273.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.84471875,"end":289.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.60659375,"end":285.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.28096875,"end":292.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.79096875,"end":294.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.95534375,"end":296.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.54159375,"end":305.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.26221875000005,"end":317.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.29909375,"end":309.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.88471875000005,"end":315.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.67784375,"end":317.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.56784375,"end":317.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.63534375,"end":317.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.65221875000003,"end":317.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.66909375,"end":317.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.83784375000005,"end":358.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.11846875000003,"end":358.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.96221875000003,"end":362.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.24471875,"end":360.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.11784375,"end":372.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.41284375000004,"end":365.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.44221875000005,"end":365.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.26909375,"end":368.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.78346875,"end":369.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.30596875000003,"end":387.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.46846875,"end":386.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.34596875,"end":394.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.93659375000004,"end":388.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.70846875,"end":389.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.41659375,"end":396.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.09971875,"end":398.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.15034375000005,"end":400.42409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.69409375000004,"end":401.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.03159375,"end":401.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.73159375,"end":406.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.35971875,"end":411.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.01346875,"end":411.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.13534375,"end":412.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.31659375000004,"end":414.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.40096875,"end":417.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.86471875,"end":417.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.77159375,"end":419.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.22284375000004,"end":423.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.65659375,"end":429.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.31471875000005,"end":425.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.82471875000005,"end":435.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.02284375000005,"end":431.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.32159375000003,"end":447.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.80659375000005,"end":439.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.33346875,"end":440.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.11721875,"end":448.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.58971875000003,"end":450.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.74534375,"end":454.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.96846875000006,"end":456.92159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.32659375000003,"end":457.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.47846875000005,"end":476.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.61346875000004,"end":459.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.88471875000005,"end":489.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.27534375000005,"end":488.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.40159375,"end":492.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.61659375000005,"end":494.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.16471875,"end":496.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.41346875000005,"end":529.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.64784375000005,"end":509.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.01159375,"end":538.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.73159375,"end":547.2703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.89909375,"end":554.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.5734687500001,"end":553.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.34096875,"end":557.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.85096875,"end":561.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.9184687500001,"end":558.2390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.95596875,"end":564.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.48284375,"end":566.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.55846875,"end":574.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.03096875,"end":568.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.3759687500001,"end":599.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.26596875,"end":577.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.02409375,"end":585.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.4709687500001,"end":595.9209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.35534375,"end":597.8447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.5447187500001,"end":613.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.70721875,"end":615.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.91784375,"end":618.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.14096875,"end":632.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.97596875,"end":624.6084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.77596875,"end":634.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.1047187500001,"end":645.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.9890937499999,"end":650.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.3603437500001,"end":647.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.80284375,"end":657.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.73471875,"end":655.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.0759687500001,"end":657.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.16034375,"end":657.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.24471875,"end":657.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.31221875,"end":659.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.0334687500001,"end":662.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.51409375,"end":667.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.28159375,"end":674.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.66034375,"end":684.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.06846875,"end":681.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.72596875,"end":689.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.5647187500001,"end":696.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.8090937500001,"end":691.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.42034375,"end":694.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.0615937500002,"end":706.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":706.7053437500001,"end":707.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.1228437500001,"end":708.5615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.19034375,"end":713.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.0972187500001,"end":710.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.38346875,"end":715.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.61534375,"end":719.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.31971875,"end":723.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.68221875,"end":721.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.0234687500001,"end":724.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.32284375,"end":737.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":724.49159375,"end":725.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.7234687499999,"end":726.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":733.8234687500001,"end":737.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.0972187500001,"end":738.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":738.29534375,"end":767.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.66471875,"end":751.9978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.5790937500001,"end":759.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":767.0672187499999,"end":770.5772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":770.1047187500001,"end":773.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":772.46721875,"end":775.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":774.2390937499999,"end":775.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.84221875,"end":775.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":775.97721875,"end":776.36534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.049,"end":2.071,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請徐家欣委員長來 委員長請徐委員長 欸 我很好奇喔先追問一下 為什麼您覺得新加坡接下來可能會被列入警視欸 倒不是說一般人都會被列入警視啦是 特定人士會被列入警視比方說 省委員可能會有風險"},{"start":25.33,"end":52.31,"text":"所以他之后就不能去新加坡是这个意思那我问一下就是我们在2015年的时候其实那时候的这个立法委员郑立军也是现在的副院长那他就有批评过这个教育部长吴思华那理由呢是因为吴思华部长那时候他用公务机票出访德国在这个行程结束之后呢还另外加了三天的这个个人假期"},{"start":52.89,"end":77.904,"text":"那鄭麗芸委員她就說呢公務機票不應該拿來私人旅遊公司應該分明我想問一下這個委員長你對於公務出差之後然後在家請假的這樣子的一個做法的態度您覺得是就是說過去鄭麗文立委現在的副院長她對於吳思華的批評你覺得是合理的嗎"},{"start":80.365,"end":98.47,"text":"對於這個個案內容我並不是很了解但是就他的個案就是說因為教育部我了解教育部因為他並不是涉外單位說他每一個行程跟每一個行程中間都一直接連不斷的那這跟外交部或僑委會狀況不一樣我們可能從這一點到這一點中間的活動可能會有一兩天的落差那所以說要連續起來"},{"start":103.991,"end":132.498,"text":"所以本會過去幾十年的慣例就是可以比如說A活動然後呢跟B活動中間然後你可能用請假的方式是為了A活動要去參加B活動所以才請假的是的是這個意思是這個意思那這個可是對方他的公務行程之後這個多了三天的請假那也不一定他是私人旅遊啊所以我覺得當初這個說法那好那你現在所以我說我不知道他的個案是怎麼情況"},{"start":133.399,"end":149.44,"text":"根據8月底的休假資料我想要請問一下您在8月13號到8月20號的這段休假時間您仍是在台灣嗎我休假時間不在台灣跟委員報告事實上我是出國而且出國的機票是我自己買的"},{"start":151.041,"end":170.292,"text":"而且因為這樣子我知道下一個點我第一個出差出訪的點是什麼我就特別買去那個點幫國家省了一筆錢21號到9月15號再一次因公出國在這次出國裡面那你也是自己付費還是就是用公務機票那一趟就是已經在當地國"},{"start":171.789,"end":190.627,"text":"然後當地國我們所以之後又跑了很多國啊所以每一國的機票就變成公務機票啦OK所以後續是公務機票通常是公務了我想要請教一下就是說您在這個休假之後接著公務出國那前面的這個頭的部分您說您是我自己自費買的對但是尾的部分是嗎"},{"start":191.127,"end":209.145,"text":"跟委員報告這樣子過去僑委會歷任不管委員長或副委員長通通是一樣的模式就是說其實我們反而是因為不想浪費公堂因為他A活動到B活動之間如果只有兩天左右的空檔他如果來回飛"},{"start":211.127,"end":236.275,"text":"耗掉的這個交通費會更高我就問的是說 您去的時候啊我自己買機票 自己買的機票嘛 對但你去B點的時候 那個機票就是公務機票嘛開始是公務了 對那所以其實實際上面呢 還是有一段的行程沒有 委員 我先到的第一點就在那個地方沒有機票所以那一段是我全部自己出的 對啊我幫公務出了 委員 事實上我本來就要飛去那個點那我先飛去那個點 我還用自己的錢來買所以我為了不想讓"},{"start":239.176,"end":264.513,"text":"有些不懂得同仁亂講所以我還特別交代同仁說如果我一開始是請休假的部分我就全部都自費這已經不是第一次了我好幾次都是這樣我願意以私濟公飛機的這個票是在8月13嘛但是你8月20到8月21的部分的這個機票也是你自己出的嗎那個就在當地啦 已經是在當地啦所以後續就是等到9月15號再飛回來對 沒錯那我們接下來看一下"},{"start":269.036,"end":275.957,"text":"委員跟您報告 我很感謝您特別詢問這個問題事實上過去這幾年我在僑委會 先不講副委員長的任內在單單是委員長這不到三年當中呢本人因公出國35次 總共是378天那麼我總共只有休假 核准的10天只有11天也就是說 如果我在這裡面這個"},{"start":295.014,"end":310.923,"text":"沒有請補休假我每一年要貢獻給國家的天數可能都有七八三個月左右的天數要送給國家事情是這樣的累積你的任期大概有四分之一的時間都在國外嗎超過直統計到你這個擔任委員長的時間還不包括副委員長的時候"},{"start":317.907,"end":331.954,"text":"那我們可以看一下就是說您出國的時間基本上是比兩任的外交部長加起來還要多很多但是請假不是問題同樣的資料您在任內是請假了34次然後一共是47天"},{"start":333.235,"end":340.922,"text":"那但是呢你看喔112年5月26號到7月1號113年6月20號到7月15號113年11月10號到11月25號114年的4月13號到5月5號那這個分別跟您的請假紀錄的重疊分別是三天七天兩天跟一天請問這些都是您剛剛所說的您都是自費買機票嗎這四次都是這樣子剛剛那次是一樣的嗎"},{"start":362.419,"end":364.983,"text":"對 我要跟您說明一下對 你確定喔對 就是A點到B點我們是基於A點到B點然後 呃 老實講 而且我不想誤領 或者是特別去領在公務公務機要 呃 那個出差費"},{"start":378.542,"end":401.218,"text":"所以我都是如實的做說沒關係那我就用我的請休假來代替那幾天我自己出生活費的方式是停留在當地喔我問的是說你這個112年這個中間重複就是你跟他休假重疊的這個部分嘛那你的這個休假就是說你委員那天只有停一天休假而已是週末喔哪一天112年的這一個"},{"start":407.723,"end":434.862,"text":"對 5月26號嘛到7月1號的時候三天的休假對啊 你請了三天的休假對 三天的休假我剛剛說錯了嗎沒有沒有 三天的休假對啊 所以你剛剛說我這個什麼意思啊我沒講錯嘛三天嘛 對不對對好 三天就三天啦我的意思是說所以您剛剛講說那是因為它很遠喔在北美洲到台灣如果我這三天飛回來再飛過去那等於就是"},{"start":435.382,"end":456.03,"text":"你裡面有六日的只有就是我剛剛講的那個道理啊6月26號到7月2號裡面有重疊到六日其他的都沒有那七天碰到六日的話其實還中間還有五天所以我想要我六日通通沒有休假全部都還是在跑行程我不管嘛那你請了假就是請了假嘛我們從上面那都是我應該可以請的請休假對"},{"start":457.37,"end":476.466,"text":"都會合法的請休假我沒有說你不能請假我什麼時候這樣講的我剛剛的問題是說您在這四次112、113、113、114次的這個中間有重疊請假的這個部分的機票那也是像您剛剛所說的是由您自己來付費的嗎"},{"start":477.226,"end":489.215,"text":"委員我剛剛已經解釋過了齁我剛剛一開始就請休假所以我說那一段機票我自己買就不要用公務機票但是如果是前端我已經飛到哪裡去了我就地停留"},{"start":490.487,"end":507.503,"text":"那就沒有機票的問題啦就立庭留在那裡就沒有機票的問題就沒有機票的問題啦那我們可以看一下齁那過去呢也有您在擔任台北市議員的時候那開記者會去質詢這個勞工局長蘇迎貴那那時候你指控他就是呢補修扶爛我都很記得對"},{"start":510.746,"end":537.235,"text":"9月赴美考察橫跨兩個週休10月把這個週休的工價拿出來補休你認為這是所謂的補休氾濫跟制度錯亂但是補休一樣是人家合理的可以請假的假期那你卻認為當時的你卻認為如果呢在考察中委員不一樣他是去考察我是去執行公務他那段行程結束就沒有了就全部是私人的了我是因為兩段中間"},{"start":538.795,"end":557.187,"text":"你去 你去執行公務還是你自己因為你是請假的狀態所以我沒有辦法去核實說你是不是在執行公務啊因為你都已經請假啦我所有的公務當然都有同仁跟著當然都要寫報告這些東西都是都是已經公告上網的你是不是其實還有去做很多私人的事情很多"},{"start":557.987,"end":569.693,"text":"我做我私人事情只有在我請休假的時間我才能做所以我講說你請休假的時候你也有在做你私人的事情所以我沒有用公務預算啊這樣有什麼問題嗎你這機票就從頭到尾的時候你中間這段請假的時候你就是有去做各位的事情委員你聽不懂我的意思嗎如果我飛回來再飛過去同樣一個地方那我是不是要多兩張公務機票到底我在幫國家"},{"start":583.32,"end":607.918,"text":"省錢 還是我在幫國家花更多錢你把你自己個人的休假再回到過去的做法 你可以聽我說嗎我根本不是這樣不要以小人之心做君子之腹 本人都不是這樣做的你知道多少人檢舉你這個事情嗎我不知道那些人到底腦袋有沒有搞清楚第一 如果我一開始是請休假的 我就是自己自付機票"},{"start":608.678,"end":612.721,"text":"如果我是公務行程出去中間因為A到B我需要銜接所以我都會就地停留我就地停留的時候哪有衍生機票的問題我還是在執行公務啊那幾天過去的委員長做法可能他就排一天一個行程然後就繼續領公務費用然後就過了我是不願意這樣做所以我才跟同仁說我不要這樣搞我就是要清清楚楚"},{"start":635.809,"end":640.693,"text":"這三天不是什麼大型活動要做了我不要為了說度過這三天然後就各排一個活動然後請你那個費用我說我願意自己出錢那三天住在那裡我自己付旅館費用請假的那幾天你的旅館費用都是自己付的當然是啊委員當然都是我自己出的錢"},{"start":658.17,"end":666.756,"text":"所以你覺得我這樣子是很不合理嗎我很合理好嗎我們了解一下因為您被檢舉了因為你剛剛說的那個小人之心我不能接受而且這個檢舉都是烏龍檢舉我都知道是誰檢舉的頭一個人老是搞不清楚狀況很多都是我們在當地的僑胞有一些是我自己認識的朋友"},{"start":678.083,"end":705.624,"text":"他們就搞不清楚狀況說我們現在是什麼狀況啊喬包也不會知道我們是什麼狀況啊他也不知道我下一個點要去哪裡因為我不會告訴他我下一個點要去哪裡因為這是秘密所以我還是再提醒一下好不好因為這個事情在我這邊收到監局委員 本人不到三年的時間呢我請休假的我總共累積了兩百多天的假期二二八天我總共呢 休不到八十天委員 你滿意嗎"},{"start":708.486,"end":713.171,"text":"很好啊 你就繼續這樣我本來是 洪子勳的心情不想講這些話的"},{"start":714.417,"end":736.875,"text":"你逼我講出來了那很好啊讓你有一個澄清的機會啊謝謝但是不要小人之心我從來不這樣做的本人就是願意以私濟公好嗎以私濟公好但是呢我也要強調你們自己在做僑委會這個工作的時候也有非常多的真的非常多我就是知道以前有些狀況發生所以在我開始我就全部併結說不可以這樣做對如果不是這麼多人來檢舉的話我今天不會問這個問題"},{"start":743.8,"end":765.363,"text":"那我也不想把事情跟細節講得太難聽是因為裡面會涉及到一些你們個人的這個隱私的問題我都不怕檢視那在這個個人隱私上面來說你不怕檢視我還是要注意各自法的問題嘛所以既然有這麼多既然有這麼多的人檢舉是不是您也可以去了解一下說為什麼您做委員長到現在"},{"start":767.084,"end":773.23,"text":"我想沒有很多人 你知道的就是那幾個而已沒有沒有沒有 我知道的人一定不是你說的人謝謝徐委員"}]}},{"id":"165254","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165254","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe34203dff1f5230e4bb62a46119727b9b91bffb99621b7826e0b94474edbfc61895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:43:06 - 09:57:37","影片長度":"00:14:31","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:43:06+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:57:37+08:00","duration":871,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.5153437499999995,"end":8.755343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.34596875,"end":10.122218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.809093750000002,"end":16.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.46721875,"end":17.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.47971875,"end":26.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.11534375,"end":40.547843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.93596875,"end":45.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.11659375,"end":47.196593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.618468750000005,"end":51.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.48284375,"end":52.140968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.83284375,"end":53.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.99721875,"end":61.20284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.557218750000004,"end":67.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.93596875,"end":68.66159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.84721875000001,"end":69.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.07909375,"end":102.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.42409375000001,"end":117.32909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.90284375,"end":120.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.59846875000001,"end":122.67846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.67846875000001,"end":123.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.18034375,"end":124.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.26034375,"end":131.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.74096875000001,"end":127.87596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.45346875,"end":151.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.99034375000002,"end":158.36909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.23034375,"end":156.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.52096875,"end":163.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.02659375000002,"end":167.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.21159375000002,"end":173.89409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.89409375000002,"end":173.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.99534375000002,"end":174.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.02909375000002,"end":182.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.83784375000002,"end":186.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.13721875000002,"end":185.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.20846875,"end":188.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.98034375,"end":189.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.01409375,"end":191.17409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.19971875000002,"end":189.94221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.00096875,"end":195.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.06846875000002,"end":192.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.81909375,"end":200.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.67471875,"end":203.84721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.85971875,"end":205.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.65284375000002,"end":205.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.64846875,"end":206.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.86346875,"end":209.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.93909375,"end":262.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.11221875,"end":270.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.33471875000004,"end":285.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.60221875,"end":291.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.70284375,"end":292.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.50846875,"end":296.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.45284375,"end":325.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.56221875,"end":357.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.20721875000004,"end":368.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.89721875000004,"end":374.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.14534375000005,"end":376.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.32659375000003,"end":378.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.46971875,"end":378.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.73971875,"end":392.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.67409375,"end":402.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.34784375000004,"end":403.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.92159375,"end":406.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.54534375000003,"end":464.22846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.96721875000003,"end":407.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.01784375000005,"end":409.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.26659375,"end":412.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.58784375000005,"end":433.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.17784375,"end":437.71784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.15784375000004,"end":458.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.89596875,"end":459.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.49909375000004,"end":461.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.71784375000004,"end":473.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.85221875,"end":470.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.57284375,"end":504.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.81284375,"end":482.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.79471875,"end":490.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.91409375,"end":539.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.45909375,"end":528.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.0522187500001,"end":550.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.16909375,"end":547.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.46846875,"end":549.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.58221875,"end":550.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.3415937500001,"end":557.0747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.42596875,"end":551.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.5303437499999,"end":593.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.86221875,"end":600.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.90346875,"end":606.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.9109687499999,"end":605.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.80534375,"end":667.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.97721875,"end":614.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.3059687500001,"end":616.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.4909687500001,"end":622.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.01721875,"end":655.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.2009687500001,"end":668.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.8547187500001,"end":680.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.78534375,"end":689.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.34534375,"end":691.5009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.45471875,"end":724.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.0615937500002,"end":695.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.06534375,"end":699.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.8159687500001,"end":701.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.0903437500001,"end":730.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.3897187500002,"end":736.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":732.2709687500001,"end":746.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.2522187500001,"end":744.6740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":746.1928437500001,"end":746.5303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.85096875,"end":751.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":752.21721875,"end":764.5359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":764.26596875,"end":776.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":767.3203437500001,"end":769.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.09096875,"end":780.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":778.60971875,"end":787.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":787.0303437500002,"end":794.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.75596875,"end":789.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":790.84409375,"end":792.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":794.4384687500001,"end":794.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":795.1472187500001,"end":799.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":797.2397187500001,"end":797.4422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":798.87659375,"end":799.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":799.9565937500001,"end":810.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":810.82409375,"end":812.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":813.1865937500002,"end":816.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":815.63346875,"end":819.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":819.31221875,"end":821.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":821.50596875,"end":831.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.5803437500001,"end":841.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":838.6340937500001,"end":843.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":844.30409375,"end":846.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.7678437500001,"end":849.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":850.3115937500002,"end":858.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":854.5134687500001,"end":855.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":856.67346875,"end":867.9797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":866.2078437500002,"end":867.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":869.4140937500001,"end":872.2153437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.814,"end":8.005,"text":"謝謝主席我主席我想請洪部長謝謝來請部長"},{"start":16.014,"end":45.294,"text":"陳委員長部長我今天本來是也要針對勞工政策提出很多具體的建議但今天想跟您說的是本期遇到了非常多的問題給您看這份公文是10月8號我們辦公室發文的關心花蓮災民的臨時工方案辦理狀況你們回覆我們的是說10月15號就要回覆因為我們關心災民的安置我們要看執行的成效我們要看監督的資源有沒有到位"},{"start":46.294,"end":66.408,"text":"結果到現在都沒有回函這是第一份這是第一份第二份我們來看我希望在10月21號的時候發文索取供應鏈支持方案執行狀況那10月29號就應該回文的結果一樣是石沉大海"},{"start":67.987,"end":87.933,"text":"再來第三份我是10月30號發文要求提供民間企業參與托育服務的統計數據那這個很簡單因為我本來就是一時很關心少子化育兒環境我需要知道數據我才知道為什麼托育政策做不到做不來11月7號就該回了"},{"start":88.533,"end":117.038,"text":"那現在累積了三份公文完全沒有辦法回覆我幫你算了一下拖延的時間分別花連是35天供應鏈支持方案21天民間企業提供托育服務12天我想在這邊問到底是什麼原因因為我們也是根據立法院的職權行使法第45條的問政監督權來監督行政部門但是你們沒有不回就是不回"},{"start":117.958,"end":130.708,"text":"你現在是可以告訴我一個日期什麼時候可以回嗎這樣好不好下週這幾份我們都會回文而且我也會請我們相關的單位到委員辦公室來說明"},{"start":131.933,"end":158.179,"text":"我上次遇到這個狀況是環境部你知道上次風災有幾十片的光電板需要處理所以八月的時候他告訴我他會告訴我編片有序號然後會有一個清單九月沒辦法十月沒辦法三個月沒辦法結果果然十一月才說真的找不回來了因為數量太大了我希望不是因為這樣子的問題我真心的希望不是因為這些數據是你沒有辦法提供的"},{"start":158.539,"end":186.799,"text":"这些数据其实都我想这都没什么问题所以我们就下周所以你今天会压一周内这些东西我都可以有一个答案一周内我们提供然后我也会请我们相关的这个单位全职单位到委员办公室说明那部长您现在可以告诉我就是未来我也想知道未来假使我跟您发文所资最晚是不会超过几天我没有办法现在是你没有办法讲不同的资料可能不同的状况啊"},{"start":187.287,"end":203.518,"text":"但這些針對這些資料沒有沒有這些資料下禮拜就會給我們就可以給但是未來每個不同的資料會有不同的狀況那我也希望您來說明的時候可以告訴我說您看針對這些資料你沒有什麼意義嘛可是為什麼會拖到35天也希望可以給我一個答案好嗎可以嗎好"},{"start":207.915,"end":231.594,"text":"好再來我們看一下你在這個任性特別預算以及115年就業安定基金總共加起來編了21億是有關於青年就業的預算這當然不是一筆小數字所以我也認為這是勞動部認為關稅衝擊之下所需要的經費所以才會編列這些預算但我們來細細拆分一下"},{"start":232.675,"end":254.365,"text":"我本席有蠻多朋友有去參加您去11月9號北學聯的交流活動所以當時你有宣傳說支援青年就業計畫這個最高祭出了4.8萬的補助然後已經有超過5000名的青年申請從9月開始上路以來那姑且先不論預算重疊"},{"start":255.766,"end":278.381,"text":"因為你是一個原本計畫的加強版嗎也許勞動部認為有其預算的必要性但是呢我看了之前立法院的官方很多的審查意見喔對於勞動部推動這個的執行率是說非常的慘淡114年115年就業安定基金分別編列的4.32億4.03億執行率卻只有慘淡的13.76%"},{"start":286.647,"end":304.705,"text":"那我想算一下因為你說現在超過是五千名超過六千 從申請到你發下來還需要一點點時間嘛好 我們來算一下這都是你們自己的圖表我稍微看了一下 112年當然沒有最新的數據 但是"},{"start":305.806,"end":324.837,"text":"失業的青年大概是17.7萬如果你可以告訴我最新大概是幾萬也OK那當時的失業週數為19.6週也就是4到5個月那如果你說這個6000人或是5000人目前大概是3%的失業青年有收回到"},{"start":326.621,"end":351.92,"text":"我在講是最後的核發人數這6000人是申請人數我不知道未來核發的比率是多少可是他幫助到的就是3%那我以你最高最高可以領到你講的48000元的話這已經是以這筆錢極大化的狀況也就是每一個人都達到這個條件總預算大概是要支出兩億四千萬元"},{"start":353.021,"end":368.208,"text":"那得出來的質詢率大約是16%那依照你看起來任性計畫應該先走嘛任性計畫他給的補助是比較高的所以假使我是青年我一定是優先申請任性計畫而且你也是優先核發這個嘛"},{"start":369.966,"end":391.603,"text":"你覺得有沒有可能一百一十四年的就業安定計畫預算是執行不完的依照這個進度我先跟委員說明其實比方說就像委員講到我們在十一月九號去跟我們的這個大專的學生朋友在講這件事情的時候其實真的現場很多的同學不知道這個計畫"},{"start":393.717,"end":406.022,"text":"那這也是為什麼我們其實當時在編列任性計畫的時候很希望能夠給我們比較充足的宣傳預算的原因可是後來這個宣傳預算直接被砍了半直接被砍了半我告訴你我們在這邊針對宣傳的方式已經講過好多遍我現在稍微提醒您一下之前我說您的這個圖卡都是我們人民因應其判的點擊率很差"},{"start":423.109,"end":441.906,"text":"怎麼樣的然後你就說這個是我們小編焚膏忌鬼花自己的時間做出來的這個是不需要用到任何的宣傳費所以我們不用去追蹤他的追蹤數這個答案你也講過然後執行率不夠不好的時候你就說沒宣費被砍了這個我們在這個場景也講過"},{"start":446.03,"end":470.13,"text":"我現在問你誰是使用網路最高的族群就是這個族群就是你說的最不需要你的小編就可以做出圖卡的這就是使用網路最高的族群我問你這個族群的人這個族群的人是不是知道有這樣子的福利自己都會去宣傳是吧連我都已經遇到北學聯的人回來告訴我說"},{"start":474.634,"end":503.994,"text":"您的宣傳也不用錢啊您也可以自己拍影片啊不是嗎您在11月9號您在11月9號的宣傳就非常的好好 我跟你說我剛已經講過了我剛已經講過了你現在的任性計畫裡面其實是原本計畫的強化版我也看完了它的時間比較短然後它的費用多1000塊你的沒宣費本來就可以一併使用可是你卻把它怪罪在"},{"start":505.034,"end":527.504,"text":"之後這個任性計畫裡面的媒體人任性計畫的媒體人也讓你編了根據在野黨之前寫的這2000這2000就是非跟就業計畫相關的所以這絕對不是你成效不好的藉口絕對不是你成效不好的藉口這個族群是你最容易用網路就approach的族群"},{"start":528.004,"end":554.833,"text":"我們現在是想要好好來討論說為什麼你的執行率不夠好我們是一起來研究這個計劃很好啊我們兩個都很希望越多人領到越好不是嗎跟我們說明第一個事情是我們認為這個計劃的執行率可能不是這樣算的他不是拿來去處理所有的這個現在沒有就業的年輕人的這個算法他的這個執行率的計算不是這樣那我們的確看到現在在這個計劃的在"},{"start":557.654,"end":583.625,"text":"年輕社群裡面其實接受度是很高的只要有講到他們一知道他要找工作就很希望能夠申請所以重點是怎麼讓年輕族群能夠知道因為我們發現在執行的過程裡面發現只要讓大家知道他有這個需求他申請的意願就高可是我們的關鍵是怎麼讓更多年輕的族群知道網路是一種方法沒有問題網路我們會直接宣傳我其實我個人我就已經宣傳好多波了"},{"start":584.305,"end":601.45,"text":"我自己用我自己的臉書社群我就宣傳好多波了但是我們知道如果要讓更多的年輕朋友知道可能還需要更多的方法跟資源方法是一件事情可是沒有辦法全部都依賴我自己去到每一個學校裡面我先念一下114年勞動部加救安基金沒選費大約是兩億元"},{"start":606.912,"end":609.894,"text":"115年勞動部加救安基金沒宣費大約是一億三千萬元我今天不是來跟你炒沒宣費的我今天絕對不是來跟你炒沒宣費你自己的就經營的非常好靠你自己宣傳我覺得可以宣傳很好我們也努力我是很想知道裡面"},{"start":622.961,"end":639.216,"text":"我們一起研究之前我們一直講婦女賽就業計畫你就很誠實的說啊你說後來這些上的課真的太多因此很多婦女非常有意願結果達不到門檻這也不是宣傳做的不好是因為他中間要上的課程太多所以我是來跟你討論第一"},{"start":641.098,"end":666.707,"text":"你有沒有可能因為任性的執行率達不到全部做不完後來你原本編的救安基金裡面的會用不完有沒有這個可能這是我第一個要問的問題嘛我剛就已經問了嘛第二個問題就是說你覺得裡面有沒有什麼青年來申請的門檻我們可以調降的因為你之前就曾經官方被講執行率差這件事不是嗎"},{"start":667.247,"end":687.603,"text":"跟委員說明第一個我其實覺得這件事情是大家可以是攤開來好好討論比方說之前委員關心婦女的那幾支計畫的確我們認為在裡面執行它的機制的過程有檢討的必要就是它是在執行的操作的門檻上面都有調整的必要這部分我想我們是很很很坦誠的"},{"start":688.444,"end":714.341,"text":"所以我也想知道這邊有沒有你可以調整的在青年的這個執行率就我們目前執行的狀況看到的事情其實我們是把它的門檻有調整原本是要三個月現在我們把它調整成兩個月把三個月調整到兩個月那就我們目前知道在年輕人知道這個計劃如果他要找工作的時候他知道這個反應的時候他其實他來申請的意願我認為是有一定高的意願的"},{"start":715.242,"end":723.857,"text":"可是他有一定高的意願可是為什麼來申請的人數其實我們也認為可以更多但是現在最關鍵的事情是很多年前真的不知道"},{"start":727.13,"end":734.855,"text":"沒關係在這個計畫裡面如果是機制有問題我們可以檢討機制我現在想要問你的是第一個問題你也還沒回答我我現在想要問你的是我看到了你把門檻調低了可見門檻就是一個很明顯的因素不然你不會把門檻調低嘛你門檻調低好你把任性計畫的錢你如果花不完你救安基金會不會沒辦法還是你救安基金的條件也會跟著改"},{"start":757.263,"end":776.158,"text":"這就是一個很好的答案你一直在扯沒宣費但實際上你就是調低了門檻不是嗎跟委員說我現在沒有一定只聚焦在沒宣費可是我只是要說我們認為我們自己判斷在這個計畫上面要讓更多年輕人來申請最重要的關鍵是要讓年輕人知道"},{"start":777.199,"end":792.371,"text":"是要讓年限知道這個計畫其實也不會啊你只要告訴我說你調低了門檻以後來申請的人大幅增加多少就表示調低門檻有效啊不是嗎原本是三個月現在調低成兩個月因為在關稅期間我們認為可以把它調低成兩個月"},{"start":795.333,"end":808.701,"text":"所以這就是最好的宣傳調低門檻就是最好的宣傳這是我們已經做的對啊我知道嘛所以我在問你說任性計劃如果在沒有花完的前提是不是大家就不會再用到你原本編的救安基金的這個計劃就這麼簡單的問題耶"},{"start":813.24,"end":830.763,"text":"我們現在的確是優先在用任性計劃所以救援基金有沒有可能就不會花完了嗎有沒有可能有可能用的金額會降低對所以好啊那我們之後我們就來比較這兩個執行率有可能你不廢吹灰之令的執行率就提高了好嗎我們到時候再拉數據出來看"},{"start":831.644,"end":849.184,"text":"我們我們在這個計劃裡面是我們當然是非常希望把他執行率給再拉高但是的確在執行率計算上面可能不是不會啊依照你剛剛講的說法其實你一調低馬上就很多人來拉你剛你剛親口講出來的對但是沒有辦法再調的更低因為"},{"start":850.605,"end":867.503,"text":"當你把從兩個月要再降低成一個月的時候他可能產生一些其他在最後我們就來攤開來看到底什麼才是關鍵最後我們再把他拉出來看那另外其他剛剛三個你欠我的公文我也在麻煩您可以請快謝謝你謝謝部長好謝謝陳金輝委員發言接下來請王"}]}},{"id":"165247","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165247","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3b164302dbc56d93efc3112febeb0f1b01bffb99621b7826e6365cf59414950575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"10:00:41 - 10:06:52","影片長度":"00:06:11","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢。（11月12日及13日二天一次會））","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:00:41+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:06:52+08:00","duration":371,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.19971875,"end":1.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.17409375,"end":2.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.071593750000002,"end":10.814093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.83096875,"end":21.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.965343750000002,"end":15.404093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.21409375,"end":16.602218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.63096875,"end":22.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.05284375,"end":70.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.047843750000002,"end":27.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.31784375,"end":27.351593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.97596875,"end":28.617218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.617218750000003,"end":28.667843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.86534375,"end":34.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.43034375,"end":36.666593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.24846875,"end":39.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.711593750000006,"end":46.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.174718750000004,"end":52.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.19159375,"end":52.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.96784375,"end":53.862218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.63596875,"end":71.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.76659375,"end":135.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.19846875,"end":89.28284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.58096875000001,"end":126.05346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.06159375000001,"end":128.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.85784375,"end":141.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.28721875000002,"end":148.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.35784375,"end":164.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.66159375,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.74784375000002,"end":172.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.56096875,"end":173.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.33721875,"end":175.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.24846875,"end":178.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.20596875,"end":191.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.34034375000002,"end":181.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.03221875,"end":181.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.98846875,"end":203.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.05159375000002,"end":192.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.92784375000002,"end":201.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.15971875000002,"end":206.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.16784375,"end":224.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.31471875000003,"end":211.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.55784375000002,"end":219.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.96284375000002,"end":220.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.75159375,"end":222.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.45596875,"end":223.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.21096875,"end":237.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.02471875,"end":229.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.82971875,"end":235.18409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.02346875,"end":240.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.93034375000002,"end":256.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.80721875,"end":244.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.24159375000002,"end":245.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.64659375000002,"end":245.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.69596875000002,"end":258.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.33659375,"end":262.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.04096875,"end":260.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.35721875,"end":268.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.05659375,"end":269.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.33909375,"end":269.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.65971875,"end":270.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.67659375,"end":271.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.14471875000004,"end":274.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.73909375,"end":274.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.87409375000004,"end":274.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.92471875,"end":279.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.32096875,"end":283.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.68721875,"end":299.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.91471875,"end":285.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.33471875000004,"end":307.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.15721875,"end":300.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.69284375,"end":301.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.66721875,"end":304.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.87346875000003,"end":312.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.56471875,"end":310.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.53909375,"end":325.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.52971875000003,"end":318.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.84096875,"end":333.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.75096875,"end":334.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.78034375000004,"end":339.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.13034375,"end":337.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.64909375,"end":342.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.26471875000004,"end":351.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.11534375,"end":354.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.60034375000004,"end":353.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.25409375000004,"end":360.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.34221875000003,"end":367.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.78034375000004,"end":363.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.29471875,"end":364.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.31159375000004,"end":371.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.29846875000004,"end":367.31534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.29,"end":2.213,"text":"周局長 麻煩請委員長好 委員長請葉委員 早安"},{"start":11.622,"end":36.272,"text":"委員長早在我們的選區有一個華僑高中是應該非常熟是他比較特別的地方就是他是普通高中但他有收僑生也有一班生對比較尷尬的是因為他是高中所以他就是歸教育部管對他就是歸教育部管國教署國教署但問題是其實他有大概學生裡面有三成是僑生對目前的人數是大概500多位對"},{"start":37.612,"end":63.182,"text":"華僑高通是一個非常好的學校學生很優秀我上次他校慶的時候我去他們學校碰到很多校友從世界各地來還有本地的都對學校的那段教育的經驗很肯定現在比較尷尬的是我剛剛講的因為國教署是把他當作一般的高中他並沒有注意到他實際上還有大概三成僑生"},{"start":64.222,"end":80.354,"text":"所以在人力的配置給的資源都是給一般的高中的資源但問題是那個我不知道委員長曉不曉得就是僑生他因為他們在台灣只有民意的監護人十一住勤都在學校"},{"start":80.974,"end":96,"text":"那還有適應的問題所以你如果用一般高中的那種人力配置給這個學校的話一定是不夠的而且會壓縮到比如說對於一般生的照顧的資源所以有幾件事情第一個"},{"start":96.88,"end":116.986,"text":"在教學資源方面我希望喬爾委會可以協助老師的人力我們現在都在關心學校都出現行政大逃亡的狀況就是很多老師都不願意兼行政職因為行政工作太繁重而且行政價值也很低不只是沒有給老師尊重也沒有給應有的待遇"},{"start":117.586,"end":141.289,"text":"那大家都不願意兼行政職那在華僑高中可能面臨的狀況就是他的行政業務一半以上都是跟僑生有關例如說要處理僑生的居留證啊等等要處理僑生的那個適應的問題那我不知道能不能僑友會能不能協助啦在這一塊你要嘛就是說跟國教署講就是說僑生有其特殊性希望他能夠給多的"},{"start":142.375,"end":148.359,"text":"人力 不然的話就是直接由僑委會編預算讓這個華僑高中可以多一點人力 不知道這可不可以跟委員報告我確實上個禮拜才邀請了我們華僑高中的許校長以及三位主任一起到我們僑委會來進行座談就是我們基於了解說近年來到華僑高中的這一些僑生 高中生的人數呢有略為增加的狀態"},{"start":169.754,"end":177.46,"text":"那甚至那個校舍因為他們特別要住宿嘛所以他們的空間不太夠因為我們時間很有限我這一次找校長來也是要跟他溝通這件事情來協助他基本上就是說第一個我要先了解說他們目前的挑戰是哪些然後我們也協助去跟教育部進行這個相關的溝通委員長這樣 我打岔一下因為你了解的狀況是因為他這一年的僑生暴增啦主要是因為緬甸僑生變多嘛"},{"start":199.476,"end":218.888,"text":"因為緬甸他們國內的問題嘛很多人就趕快趁這個時候但是長期來說委員因為我們有很多高中跟我們合作等一下因為華僑高中其實它不是新的學校啦它幾十年了所以你現在才開始找它來其實主要原因是因為緬甸僑生增加的問題並不是說真的有注意到學校的狀況"},{"start":219.728,"end":245.532,"text":"那我現在是把學校的狀況跟妳講因為像我本人也是很關心就是不管是華僑高中也好一般高中也好比如說老師人力的問題那這個有關於老師人力的問題因為現在教育的狀況跟以前不一樣所以希望這個部分可以協助我們會跟教育局多教育部多要求第二個是輔導老師現在是15個班一個全國都一樣但是"},{"start":246.172,"end":274.304,"text":"如果像華僑高中有僑生融入各班的狀況嘛那一定也會產生文化差異啊或各方面他輔導老師跟委員報告僑生他們會獨立的班他們沒有融入式的有融入就是融入有有有沒有你講的是國中啦高中有融入不是他們是有兩種一種叫做語文班一種就是一般高中班我講的是一般高中班啊對啊一般高中班啊我講的都是一般高中嘛就是有一班生的也有僑生的嘛"},{"start":274.784,"end":286.419,"text":"那他可能也會有文化參與或各方面需要主導老師的量會比較多我的了解他們僑生還是在僑生班裡面並沒有合適沒有沒有沒有你再去了解一下好有僑生班國中就是僑生班高中有農路對"},{"start":290.723,"end":311.837,"text":"但重點應該是說它不管它是龍路或喬森班它就是會有適應問題一定是比一般高中需求更大需要有更多的輔導的老師的資源配備我們現在有先提供學生的部分就是說因為主席站起來我很快講一下就是您回去研究一下還有一個就是"},{"start":312.637,"end":332.553,"text":"看能不能夠比照啦比如說像師大的那個僑生先修班他有一個專門的空間因為他們那個效力很大如果可以蓋一個比如說類似僑教大樓專門僑生然後學語文跟業委員報告之前因為你之前的前一任的委員同樣的在這裡也跟我們問過同樣的問題所以我其實已經都知道這些相關的狀況了"},{"start":333.849,"end":361.201,"text":"沒有做啊不是你不能說你知道狀況我們只能反映給教育部的國教署現在的問題就是說因為國教署他沒有沒有僑委會那麼了解僑生的狀況嘛他們是針對一般學生嘛所以我們現在都加強跟國教署在協商這些事情那如果國教署不願意的話那僑委會能不能夠提供資源因為畢竟他是僑生嘛我們願意在我們的預算裡面擴增一點來協助"},{"start":362.381,"end":371.179,"text":"好不好 如果委員支持我們願意擴增一些我們當然支持啦好謝謝好謝謝委員各位請回蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在"}]}},{"id":"165241","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165241","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe39a9fc6a243fec48afc3112febeb0f1b04cf7b889f21dc7b7e704fec7cb43ff685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"09:37:02 - 09:46:49","影片長度":"00:09:47","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢。（11月12日及13日二天一次會））","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:37:02+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:46:49+08:00","duration":587,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.36409375,"end":3.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.53284375,"end":1.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.4397187500000004,"end":4.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.480968750000002,"end":19.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.87721875,"end":11.910968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.910968750000002,"end":12.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.57221875,"end":76.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.76159375,"end":131.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.36471875,"end":245.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.20721875,"end":142.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.99659375000002,"end":166.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.23221875000002,"end":170.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.98409375000003,"end":219.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.25346875000002,"end":224.08034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.69721875000002,"end":245.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.52409375000002,"end":272.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.00534375,"end":298.85346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.58659375,"end":278.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.35159375,"end":297.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.85346875000005,"end":301.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.04284375000003,"end":354.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.51471875000004,"end":306.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.41159375,"end":318.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.05096875000004,"end":331.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":354.60846875000004,"end":380.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.83971875000003,"end":360.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.41346875000005,"end":360.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":380.98409375,"end":434.20784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":435.47346875000005,"end":436.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.14846875,"end":436.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.09346875000006,"end":440.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.47221875,"end":455.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.85846875000004,"end":466.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.95971875000004,"end":456.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":456.02721875000003,"end":456.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.31409375000004,"end":456.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.33784375000005,"end":475.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.47221875,"end":470.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.75909375000003,"end":470.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.66971875,"end":484.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.01846875,"end":485.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.63846875,"end":507.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":506.44971875000005,"end":528.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.53971875,"end":524.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":528.58971875,"end":540.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.85784375,"end":566.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.6853437500001,"end":567.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.1953437500001,"end":570.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.50721875,"end":574.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.07659375,"end":577.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.29534375,"end":586.6397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.40034375,"end":580.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.97284375,"end":588.7322187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.72,"end":30.644,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請委員長來 委員長請林委員早安好 委員長早 辛苦了我想其實除了大概在立法院詢答你多數的時間都在奔波喔所以跟我們這些橋界台商們的關係是非常好的所以我想詢問一下就是我們先從這個普發現金來聊起好了因為我們知道這個普發現金我們有很多的台商或是橋界的好朋友"},{"start":31.164,"end":36.668,"text":"他們是不是有資格請領目前這個僑委會有沒有做一些了解目前我們海外的台商當中大家目前請你的狀況如何所以我想先就這個部分借用這個機會因為我知道很多台僑好朋友也都會看我們的這些詢答的內容因為我特別針對是不是可以領一萬的部分有上了這個僑委會的網站應該說是臉書啦"},{"start":57.825,"end":74.059,"text":"其實底下是有一些好朋友我們在詢問的那他們的問題其實多數我稍微大概整理了一下比如說他們可能是現在有戶籍但是被除籍了要除戶了那麼來不及回來申請那麼有一些是說他們是"},{"start":77.342,"end":83.81,"text":"儲戶之後恢復了有沒有時間的限制然後有一些人是說他如果現在目前沒有國內的銀行但是又無法領現等等其實他們的狀況會跟我們國內不太一樣因為國內比較"},{"start":93.042,"end":107.314,"text":"多的會是年長者他可能有所謂的數位落差所以說他在登記的部分會比較麻煩可能需要長輩那麼所以說像一些里長啊或是像我們民進黨的民意代表也都有在自己的服務處就張貼說你可以來這裡我可以協助你可是對於海外的這些台橋朋友的部分的話那麼"},{"start":113.559,"end":126.672,"text":"他們的這一些請領資格的疑問是不是可以藉這個機會我們委員長也稍微講一下那麼你們手上有沒有一些什麼樣的掌握那麼有沒有一些提供給他們的特別服務或者是設立一個專區在這個你們的網站上面讓他們來了解"},{"start":132.503,"end":133.865,"text":"謝謝林委員的提問我們確實在11月6號的時候也先在臉書做了第一個有關於普發金金的宣傳接下來我們確實也會有一個在網站的專區"},{"start":147.563,"end":151.906,"text":"做各種Q&A那事實上就目前為止我所了解的海外僑民都非常可愛他們說這一萬塊現金呢應該是有在台灣繳稅的人來領就好了所以絕大多數的僑民說他們並沒有想要領這個就是說有資格領的人也沒有特別說想要來領但是真的想要來領的我們也有去思考他們要怎麼作業"},{"start":170.819,"end":176.004,"text":"那麼第一個就是說他們只要在國內任何的銀行或者是郵政劃撥有這個帳戶的他們都可以尋這個在網路登記的方式就可以合撥這1萬那如果沒有的話他的直系親屬事實上也是可以幫他做帶領的但是就是說這個帶領的過程他就是要具備有這個身分證的相關證件的資料"},{"start":195.223,"end":197.325,"text":"才能夠幫他做現金的帶領的模式這個是根據目前財政部規劃的方向裡面都有的一些模式所以我們比較擔心的反而是說因為詐騙案件很多所以我們避免說有些登錄的時候有些錯誤的訊息"},{"start":215.504,"end":220.527,"text":"誤導他們還沒有領到一萬卻被先詐騙了十萬所以這方面我們現在反而是重點在這個地方反詐的宣傳我們就持續的在做那至於駐外的公務人員或者是分別派駐到海外的這些公務人員的眷屬那他們呢政府會主動撥到他們的戶頭所以他們不用做任何特別的動作那至於僑胞的部分就是我剛剛所說的"},{"start":246.585,"end":257.735,"text":"他們事實上如果想要請領就是剛剛那兩項的方向都是可以運作第一個就是在網路上先去登錄然後匯到他們的戶頭第二個就是說請他們在國內的這個直系血清來幫他們進行這個帶領的作業那這兩項我想如果都還有困難的話我們會再進一步跟財政部來了解看看還有沒有其他的方式可以解決"},{"start":272.028,"end":296.449,"text":"好 所以顯然這個對於服務僑民這個方向真的是方方面面非常多但是大家的關注的點可能還會是資格的部分不過因為像你們已經寫得很清楚了就是只要是國內有戶籍的國民以及有居留許可但是沒有戶籍也可以那之前因為可能COVID-19的期間就是武漢肺炎沒有辦法回來的只要恢復了戶籍是不是也就可以來申請勤領這一萬元"},{"start":298.991,"end":301.212,"text":"確實是這個現在就是我相信這個請領因為到明年2026年的年中那所以我如果判斷沒有錯的話明年二月的農曆年節前後會有非常多的僑胞就會回來所以這段時間他們也可以親自回來再領就好了"},{"start":318.959,"end":325.02,"text":"所以也不用那麼急於說趕在第一波當然第一波已經有非常多人已經作業了但是國際的這個因為跨國界的這個登錄上面我們還是要注意安全為優所以我們會持續的來宣導就是讓海外僑胞只要具有資格者我們都希望他們的權利不要受到影響"},{"start":342.664,"end":348.828,"text":"讓他們都可以公平的領到但是我們也聽到很多僑民真的很可愛他們說我們不會去領啦你們宣傳你們的這個錢應當是留給台灣的人來領就好了所以說他們這個台僑朋友僑民朋友愛台灣的心真的是很可愛啦也透過委員長我們了解到這些海外僑民朋友對於台灣在國內的好朋友以及在海外的朋友的想法"},{"start":369.54,"end":378.486,"text":"好 另外一個其實我要關注的問題是我們都知道這個亞洲台商聯合總會的第33屆的第二次禮盡式會議12月8號會在新加坡舉行那麼其實在2024年的時候在越南舉行的這個所謂台商會的活動當時呢就受到中國的打壓所以很可惜不只是委員長不能到連我們的立法院的副院長江啟臣副院長也沒辦法去"},{"start":398.32,"end":413.409,"text":"那麼我們知道就是最近10月25號新加坡的總理才跟這個中共的這個李強才剛見過面所以呢他也特別發表了就是所謂的一中原則以及新加坡堅持所謂反台獨的這個部分"},{"start":414.77,"end":433.714,"text":"那麼中國的長臂管轄的這個所謂威嚇其實現在目前是再升級的不知道目前委員長有沒有特別去了解現在亞洲台商聯合總會這一次12月在新加坡辦的活動中國的狀況如何然後您覺得您去得成嗎根據我目前的了解這個"},{"start":443.513,"end":452.355,"text":"因為新加坡事實上是免簽國啦我們可以直接就是如果私人身份當然隨時可以進出但是因為我們是以公務行程所以我們總是要取得這個我們出訪國家的這一個不只是默契而且要有官方的一個這個同意那不滿委員說確實我們近期已經有去跟新加坡代表處去接洽了"},{"start":470.819,"end":480.955,"text":"那得到的訊息不是太樂觀那麼這也跟新加坡一貫的立場有主要的關係目前為止是新加坡認為說這個他們對於"},{"start":486.69,"end":491.933,"text":"本會 因為他說新加坡是一個以華裔為以名的主要國家所以他認為本會去對他們有一些影響會影響他們的僑民的認知所以他是以這個理由來拒絕僑委會的任何官員不只是委員長而已是任何官員都不能出訪"},{"start":506.502,"end":527.829,"text":"好 那麼其實本席還要端著 當然這可能跟喬委會不一定有關但是過去以往包括像王定宇 昭緯也曾經有來辦過所謂的這個海外的考察來出席這樣的一個活動那麼我們知道沈伯洋委員也是我們國防外交的委員那麼包括就是中國在這一次當中如果"},{"start":528.649,"end":545.038,"text":"他有所謂長臂管轄甚至於新加坡是跟中國有簽所謂的引渡相關的協定的那麼像這樣的部分包括僑委會以及相關的單位我都希望說還是要密切的關注跟委員報告其實我們都有在關注各國的發展局勢所以也都提醒了僑民說"},{"start":546.438,"end":558.084,"text":"過境或者是轉機甚至在哪些地方哪些國家都要高度的注意尤其是我們的榮譽職人員怕避免被標示或者是他被列為所謂的這個長臂管轄範圍的狀況之下會受到中國的一些干擾跟風險因此這部分我們都要高度提醒好 謝謝謝謝委員新加坡不在警示範圍內嗎"},{"start":568.997,"end":587.125,"text":"未來可能也要警示了確定這個是大事情這個就要請新加坡的這個代表要就目前為止新加坡不在警示範圍內目前沒有如果委員長預測未來可能列入警示範圍內後面會把他變頭條我跟你講那個是大事不是小事好請回"}]}},{"id":"165240","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165240","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3d4ca7ba22ccbbd8b906ee7c1e9a76e5a4cf7b889f21dc7b7f5ff160f27f5ee205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"09:33:06 - 09:44:47","影片長度":"00:11:41","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:33:06+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:44:47+08:00","duration":701,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.88159375,"end":12.282218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.552218750000002,"end":13.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.00346875,"end":15.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.74159375,"end":16.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.63971875,"end":20.027843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.719718750000002,"end":21.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.64784375,"end":25.883468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.406593750000003,"end":28.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.465343750000002,"end":33.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.612218750000004,"end":41.189093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.391593750000006,"end":43.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.31096875,"end":45.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.268468750000004,"end":49.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.98096875,"end":51.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.596593750000004,"end":53.541593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.99721875,"end":54.908468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.212218750000005,"end":55.937843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.34284375,"end":60.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.844093750000006,"end":64.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.62846875000001,"end":65.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.77596875,"end":66.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.58596875,"end":67.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.49721875,"end":68.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.40846875,"end":68.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.82596875,"end":70.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.66971875,"end":72.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.18409375,"end":74.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.87159375,"end":75.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.98534375,"end":77.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.28034375,"end":79.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.30534375,"end":82.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.31346875,"end":84.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.37221875,"end":86.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.24096875000001,"end":88.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.26596875,"end":90.98721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.24034375000001,"end":94.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.88534375,"end":98.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.80034375000001,"end":100.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.24721875,"end":102.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.31471875000001,"end":107.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.38971875,"end":115.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.59221875,"end":108.90846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.01284375,"end":119.06721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.23596875000001,"end":123.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.74159375,"end":130.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.52159375000001,"end":129.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.12034375000002,"end":130.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.44096875,"end":130.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.45784375,"end":131.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.49159375000002,"end":136.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.26346875000002,"end":133.00596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.10721875000002,"end":133.12409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.15784375,"end":135.23346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.81971875000002,"end":142.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.93784375,"end":137.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.86096875,"end":160.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.87534375,"end":165.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.48221875000002,"end":180.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.46284375000002,"end":180.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.12909375,"end":183.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.74909375000001,"end":188.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.08596875,"end":191.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.98409375,"end":194.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.81909375,"end":214.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.87784375,"end":197.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.44721875000002,"end":198.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.58846875,"end":214.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.74846875,"end":214.79909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.11971875,"end":216.94221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.38971875000001,"end":216.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.94221875000002,"end":223.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.11096875,"end":217.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.88721875000002,"end":218.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.00471875000002,"end":227.43846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.16034375,"end":225.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.62409375000001,"end":232.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.42971875,"end":229.64909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.25659375,"end":230.81346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.29846875,"end":234.59346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.34471875000003,"end":236.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.03221875000003,"end":244.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.78721875000002,"end":238.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.55909375000002,"end":240.22971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.98034375,"end":243.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.71846875000003,"end":253.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.19096875000002,"end":245.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.56096875000003,"end":254.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.03346875000003,"end":254.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.79284375,"end":263.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.15409375,"end":265.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.44096875,"end":270.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.49159375,"end":266.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.03534375000004,"end":280.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.83659375,"end":274.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.34659375,"end":276.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.10159375,"end":277.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.00846875,"end":280.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.47659375,"end":280.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.84784375000004,"end":285.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.96596875,"end":281.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.85971875,"end":288.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.13784375,"end":288.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.23909375,"end":288.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.35721875,"end":288.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.76221875000005,"end":303.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.11846875000003,"end":312.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.19346875,"end":313.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.23096875000005,"end":345.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.40284375000005,"end":322.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.56284375,"end":324.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.93346875000003,"end":327.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.78971875,"end":329.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.09534375000004,"end":344.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.02346875,"end":345.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.96846875,"end":346.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.08221875000004,"end":357.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.70596875,"end":352.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.70159375000003,"end":362.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.03784375000004,"end":361.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.89409375,"end":366.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.91034375000004,"end":372.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.97784375000003,"end":368.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.43721875,"end":373.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.66034375000004,"end":375.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.27596875,"end":384.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.91596875000005,"end":391.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.59096875,"end":387.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.63284375,"end":388.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.52284375000005,"end":390.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.53534375000004,"end":390.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.63659375000003,"end":391.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.32409375000003,"end":399.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.87659375000004,"end":394.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.84659375,"end":397.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.89284375000005,"end":400.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.82471875000005,"end":404.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.13221875000005,"end":405.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.27971875000003,"end":407.20784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.40596875,"end":410.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.17346875000004,"end":412.33784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.45596875,"end":413.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.43034375,"end":416.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.99534375,"end":417.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.96971875,"end":421.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.30659375000005,"end":424.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.41596875000005,"end":428.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.75721875000005,"end":431.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.77784375000005,"end":433.85346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.54534375000003,"end":438.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.79846875000004,"end":436.31721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.64596875,"end":440.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.21096875,"end":444.26534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.87284375,"end":450.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.78346875000005,"end":451.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.84659375,"end":451.47096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.90971875,"end":453.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.97284375000004,"end":457.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.52534375000005,"end":458.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.15784375000004,"end":457.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.34346875000006,"end":457.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.69346875,"end":460.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.60034375000004,"end":462.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.16971875,"end":467.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.81909375000004,"end":479.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.00846875,"end":468.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.51846875,"end":472.53096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.54784375,"end":474.18471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.70784375000005,"end":477.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.38659375000003,"end":478.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.51721875000004,"end":480.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.10784375000003,"end":487.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.57596875,"end":482.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.89596875,"end":487.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.81971875000005,"end":504.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.02221875000004,"end":489.15284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.37221875000006,"end":491.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.24096875000004,"end":493.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.48784375,"end":506.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.97284375000004,"end":507.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.32284375000006,"end":521.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.24221875,"end":512.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.6765937499999,"end":513.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.4822187500001,"end":515.3428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.90346875,"end":550.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.5734687500001,"end":525.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.61534375,"end":528.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.42034375,"end":536.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.02721875,"end":538.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.4909687500001,"end":540.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.1828437500001,"end":541.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.9115937500001,"end":551.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.42596875,"end":558.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.74159375,"end":558.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.10409375,"end":558.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.96471875,"end":560.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.3147187500001,"end":561.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.93471875,"end":561.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.5759687500001,"end":571.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.6928437500001,"end":570.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.8953437499999,"end":570.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.09784375,"end":572.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.4015937500001,"end":571.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.8403437500001,"end":580.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.0890937500001,"end":573.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.73846875,"end":575.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.8728437500001,"end":582.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.5265937500001,"end":590.7234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.14659375,"end":583.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.44596875,"end":587.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.47909375,"end":590.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.74034375,"end":590.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.2803437499999,"end":594.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.5034687500001,"end":596.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.06846875,"end":598.4015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.89096875,"end":602.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.4640937500001,"end":610.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.02846875,"end":611.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.5303437499999,"end":623.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.14034375,"end":624.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.56221875,"end":624.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.54096875,"end":624.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.6928437500001,"end":634.3115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.96596875,"end":635.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.18471875,"end":638.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.4965937500001,"end":638.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.39096875,"end":640.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.85909375,"end":642.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.7322187500001,"end":644.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.8247187500001,"end":646.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.7822187500001,"end":650.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.4440937500001,"end":659.5734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.0290937500001,"end":661.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.51409375,"end":674.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.7165937500001,"end":662.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.6640937500001,"end":674.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":674.8959687500001,"end":676.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.84096875,"end":676.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.8703437500001,"end":677.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.2878437500001,"end":684.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.4565937500001,"end":678.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.0378437500001,"end":686.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.8772187500001,"end":686.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.9109687499999,"end":686.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.19346875,"end":689.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.0834687500001,"end":692.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.85096875,"end":695.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.55096875,"end":702.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.92221875,"end":696.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.38534375,"end":702.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.97596875,"end":703.51596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.585,"end":16.388,"text":"謝謝主席即刻先進有請軍公會的彭主委請彭主委委員長"},{"start":21.725,"end":45.095,"text":"我們今天主席拍這個題目其實是很大的題目也拍得很好啦普惠金融讓台灣的每一個民眾都能夠享受到金融的服務不要有這個差別待遇等等的我覺得這個還有Fintech等一下談Fintech可是我比較關心的是這個有關於這個打炸部分最近一個"},{"start":46.755,"end":73.663,"text":"這個很熱門的題目啊就太子集團跨國洗清案他在台灣45億新台幣在美國英國140億美元的比特幣這裡面上億的現金交易買不動產幫他買幾棟幾戶的豪宅買汽車特別是超跑動輒千萬"},{"start":76.215,"end":86.2,"text":"這個都現金交易耶 我們銀行是幹什麼啊銀行對於小老百姓 自己的錢提令10萬 問東問西 羅羅碩碩羅里巴碩一堆 還問 問了十幾分鐘有時候20分鐘 10萬 20萬 問了 喔 大家已經引起民怨了可是對於這個詐欺犯 動輒幾億"},{"start":101.677,"end":122.768,"text":"幾十億的現金轉賬或者現金這樣提令都沒有關係耶這銀行幹什麼啊你們銀行自己睡覺啊謝謝委員給我這個機會來跟國人說明其實先講這兩個是完全不一樣的一個是剛剛講我們對那個主詐的部分呢那是因為為了保護民眾的財產做的那剛剛講是反洗錢的作為"},{"start":123.809,"end":131.236,"text":"那我想剛剛委員其實剛剛提到我們都在睡那是媒體在說的你們在睡啊你們在睡啊KYC啊 銀行人都不知道KYC嗎他為什麼幾十億可以從現金帳戶出去"},{"start":136.877,"end":160.229,"text":"我們其實在10月14號的時候因為收到美國的制裁我們15號就精檢接下來我們也對這個內容也做一些非常細緻的到每一家而且銀行局把每一家涉案銀行都來約尋其實這是一個不是只有台灣發生的問題但是我們要確保銀行是否有的善盡你在整個的反洗錢環節上你們現在到11月16號"},{"start":161.309,"end":180.316,"text":"才要交報告啊那為什麼這麼久呢不是 在美國我們14號收到這訊息我們馬上凍結這相關的這個帳戶再來我們15號就去經檢說奇怪你這筆金流是怎麼來的你有沒有做大額的通報有沒有去做EDD CDD這些東西都是我們關切的所以依然有犯規"},{"start":182.388,"end":189.071,"text":"銀行有犯規是不是不是 我們想知道第一件事情我們要解決問題一定要先了解問題這些詐騙犯進出的銀行有沒有違規啦對 這就是我跟委員報告有沒有 你回答我"},{"start":198.314,"end":214.589,"text":"我實際有信你不要現在我們在了解的重點待會我們可以請我們檢察局局長跟委員做說明其實銀行端其實整個的防範體系不是只有金流而已它也包括資金匯入還有就是我們在這部分這個你避重求輕啊主委啊"},{"start":215.189,"end":240.197,"text":"不才令人這麼smart對這個重要的問題不是 委員很多在偵辦中的案子我實在不適合在這個公開的場合說明這件事情你也不要洩露銀行的名稱我都沒有但是你對於這些他總是有銀行帳戶啊進出幾十億啊你們掌握沒有當然有掌握請問幾家銀行 幾家銀行告訴我我們總共有十家銀行十家銀行有進出掌握你們處理什麼總共我們可以看得出來他這些不 你做什麼事啊"},{"start":244.915,"end":263.193,"text":"銀行局做什麼事啊銀行局第一個我們是兩個部分檢查的話我們檢查局立刻就進駐到各個銀行檢查他每一筆的金流有沒有問題現在初步來看的話有沒有問題初步現在因為我們這個這個部分要仔細的去看這個內容至少他在通報上是沒有問題的"},{"start":265.642,"end":276.408,"text":"主要是老百姓聽不頂就聽不頂就不符銀行在反洗錢很重要KYC KYC KYC一定是會做的結果銀行可以讓幾億的資金這樣子如入無人之地這樣子進出老百姓不符啊跟你講啊"},{"start":288.875,"end":303.178,"text":"委員這是這樣當我一件事情已經知道它是犯罪你回推的時候當然可以看出來但是我們每天這麼多的外資進來我們自然有一個把關的機制這不是比如說我們有一個"},{"start":304.632,"end":319.025,"text":"橋外投審的這個機制一定都有設立公司有一定的機制金流進來我們該做的KYC有做這10家的銀行有沒有問題你告訴我嘛現在初步來看他們在做這個大額通報應該是應該是都符合規定所以都沒有問題不是"},{"start":319.545,"end":345.772,"text":"就等於我們在他們配合詐騙等一個競選問題不能這麼說我想說銀行在第一個針對異常交易大額交易他必須做反洗錢的通報接下來他對任何一筆交易他覺得有必要他必須做客戶淨值調查如果認為他有比如說要進一步他會做加強的淨值調查就我們一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一滴一"},{"start":347.192,"end":355.796,"text":"外界 最少我聽的就是說這世家硬朗他進出了都沒有問題所以他詐騙的經歷他進出都沒有問題怎麼會這樣子呢因為這個問題不是那麼簡單 三月兩日就說他沒有問題我一直都不是那麼簡單啊有沒有問題不是說我們說了算 要看證據說話"},{"start":367.194,"end":372.478,"text":"對啦 所以證據就是但是我們知道這是一個確實是一個國際上面的問題我們要來處理它那你就告訴我們你今天的回答就告訴我們金管會對於詐騙集團聚合資金的進出你們沒有皮條 沒有辦法沒有 這個委員會這麼說其實我覺得不是說好啦 不要扯這個了 來不是 我覺得不應該簡化這個問題啦"},{"start":392.373,"end":421.573,"text":"我覺得不應該簡化這個問題 實際上這是一個這是我們要面對的問題 要解決的問題要先面對你這個回答我很失望 第二個問題授權是不是明年開始用IVA17結果你因為授權在去年花了3800多億過去十年花了兩兆因為要避嫌因為匯率的變動損失很大"},{"start":423.499,"end":436.293,"text":"結果你們去改它的國際規範要公允性透明性結果你們改它開一個後門讓它美化照面委員這完全不是這樣喔讓我講不要急這個很像一個人我有發燒了"},{"start":441.458,"end":459.957,"text":"我發燒了 我已經38度 結果你說喔 這個你沒有發燒 因為溫度計不對我把它改成 換一個溫度計36度 完全不是這樣你為什麼去改它呢 這我很有自信我研究這個研究十幾年 我非常清楚我質詢是因為 我看到台大的教授"},{"start":460.658,"end":468.745,"text":"看到政大的教授 相關的保險系教授都在罵你啊都在罵你啊政大的李同豪教授罵你罵你很兇啊那你這個東西開放你知名啊罵你罵很兇啊你怎麼可以改國際的準則呢"},{"start":487.902,"end":490.645,"text":"為什麼可以改變台灣的準則你跟國際接軌勒你跟國際接軌勒我跟你講啊"},{"start":505.929,"end":525.998,"text":"當初匯率 急升他有很大的損失但是又回來啦 他貶回來啦現在倒是他 他貶回來所以根本你不要去替他們善後啊他們自己會 市場會善後啊我想委員 這是一個非常專業的問題我知道非常專業啊所以你不要請你去改啊這個不是說這麼簡化的問題 如果這麼簡單的話我們"},{"start":532.521,"end":549.853,"text":"憲法的教授罵你 台大教授也罵你 哎呀實在是不是 台大教授林士明老師也沒有罵我我覺得這是一個可討論的議題不要把它變成是一個 這個是個專業的問題而且這是一個我們為了面對我們整個受審的一個問題我覺得我可以私下我覺得這會後我可以花多少時間我都可以跟委員解釋說明這件事情"},{"start":562.641,"end":589.491,"text":"全世界使用IFR-17來看呢其實坦白講所謂的準則它是principle base沒有一個國家是完全一樣的所以你要改它嗎 你們出來 你要改它沒有 其實IFR-17很多國家根本就不採我想這不是一個國際快遞準則是要根據各種不同的需要來做的所以你是死案的鬼啦絕對不是這樣 委員他這樣的指控如果是這部分我是沒辦法接受啦因為這是個很專業的問題啦"},{"start":591.372,"end":604.746,"text":"全支付 類似結構支付一樣電子支付九月份就達了63億多使用人數呢 675萬結果最近一直有倒刷的問題營養局都沒有對策欸緊要就月程11月17要交報告 為什麼這麼慢啊"},{"start":611.613,"end":633.98,"text":"沒有這是一個我們縱偶的一個標準程序就是說當一件事情他發現縱到偶發的時候呢他要回去調查給我們一個報告一定要完整的報告說我們就有固定的SOP希望他每個禮拜到現在有兩個月啦這是他要交報告但我們過程當中我們全程的就已經去跟他們了解這個狀況我想這個接你過程不是在那邊坐在那邊等好 最後一個小問題時間到了喔 最後一個小問題喔"},{"start":636.241,"end":658.676,"text":"今天的題目有一個題目叫普費一個叫FinTech結果FinTech沒有明天呢FinTech我們最少是希望不要以金融業為主鼓勵科技業創新他可以join做一些金融業務結果你們現在都是要以什麼金融業為主要金融業底下的科技你才給他FinTech當然不是這樣"},{"start":660.157,"end":686.078,"text":"委員真的不是這樣我覺得就是市場上有兩種區分一個叫FinTech 一個叫TechFin很重要的金融業是特許事業當你一個所謂號稱科技業你想要做到金融業的時候你必須要有個執照這是最困難的一點太保守啦不是我想太保守啦我想委員如果說你注意到我們最近幾年做的內容其實我們在我們台灣既有成文法的架構我們做很大的突破我就最後一句要講完"},{"start":688.203,"end":701.141,"text":"Fintech是以科技為主不是以銀行為主目前你是以銀行為主這是大錯特錯他是一個如果他涉及到只是技術沒有問題如果涉及到特許事業那當然全世界都是一樣的標準謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165236","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165236","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3dd1fcb38aba248d3fc3112febeb0f1b04cf7b889f21dc7b709846c1f907d8ca55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"09:28:09 - 09:36:42","影片長度":"00:08:33","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢。（11月12日及13日二天一次會））","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:28:09+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:36:42+08:00","duration":513,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.85784375,"end":3.1697187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.77284375,"end":5.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.809718750000002,"end":54.385343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.689093750000005,"end":77.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.38596875,"end":77.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.40284375,"end":77.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.85846875,"end":78.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.28034375,"end":78.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.97221875000001,"end":86.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.25846875,"end":83.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.54909375000001,"end":108.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.80721875,"end":222.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.00909375,"end":113.32971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.42659375000002,"end":222.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.00034375,"end":223.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.05096875,"end":335.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.15096875,"end":258.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.11346875000004,"end":344.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.60159375,"end":344.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.65221875000003,"end":344.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.71971875,"end":344.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.88846875,"end":344.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.97284375000004,"end":347.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.12846875,"end":350.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.18721875,"end":435.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.97971875,"end":355.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.16909375,"end":412.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.89596875,"end":432.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.06409375000004,"end":439.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.16471875,"end":484.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.25909375000003,"end":498.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.02909375,"end":513.97596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.959,"end":3.079,"text":"謝謝主席 有請徐委員長來 委員長請羅委員早安委員長早安委員長剛剛在報告的時候有提到就是說僑委會協助美國跟歐洲設置了總共88所的台灣華語文學中心那尤其在美國我們這個TCML的發展是非常值得肯定的"},{"start":29.804,"end":49.623,"text":"那例如我们跟这个Google合作呢开设了华语科技专班进而跟这个当地的这个工业电脑大厂Portwell呢有合作那开设了这个华语班所以这是非常好的这个成果那刚刚呢委员长有提到就是说在教材的这个部分我们有出版的"},{"start":50.023,"end":77.121,"text":"英文法文德文西班牙文波蘭文還有印尼文跟越南文如果說英法德西班牙波蘭等這個語言我們可以理解因為我們現在都是佈局在這個歐美可是我們現在有印尼文跟越南文那這是不是我們在為未來的佈局來做準備請問委員長為什麼會有印尼文跟越南文"},{"start":78.362,"end":93.777,"text":"跟委員報告因為近年來其實我們有很多的僑生過去是以馬來西亞跟新馬來西亞跟香港澳門的學生為多但最近這十年來已經是越南跟印尼的學生數遠遠超過了這個馬來西亞跟香港"},{"start":98.402,"end":101.584,"text":"因應著這個局勢的變化我們也需要能夠協助越南或印尼的僑生在華語能力的提升上面因此我們就超前部署開發了印尼就是馬來文版跟越南文版事實上明年因為我們馬上就是日本也會有新的兩所華語文學習中心要開設所以明年會再增加日文版的"},{"start":125.336,"end":130.339,"text":"那麼澳洲、紐西蘭、加拿大基本上還都是用英文版就可以支應那歐洲語版因為它歐洲語系二三十個國家所以我們為了配合才做這樣子的推廣那未來在亞洲呢我們也是有可能會進一步的來做這相關的拓展因為我們不單單只有針對僑生我們希望的是能夠進一步向下扎根讓各個國際人士呢只要有興趣他可能將來要跟台灣"},{"start":154.652,"end":164.119,"text":"做各種的商業或者是投資的連結或者是他們的工程師需要進行外派或管理人員有需求要進行調動那麼我們開設這些華語文學習中心就可以大量的幫助他們快速第一個掌握華語的使用"},{"start":172.344,"end":176.007,"text":"第二個也能夠了解我們的文化發展的一個方向那這個是我們在這幾年華語文學習中心設立當中得到一個非常好重要的經驗那事實上也剛好呼應這個外交部的總和外交計畫早在三年前我們在歐洲就首先在推動這個概念是先輔導"},{"start":192.701,"end":197.666,"text":"我們國內的廠商去海外投資的時候那他們在當地聘僱的員工由於在溝通上事實上都歐洲語系因為各個不一樣大家只會用英文溝通事實上相對也困難所以後來我們設了華語文中心就派我們的師資呢進到他們的各廠去開設專班幫他們的員工上課那這個都提供了我們這些住去海外投資的廠商一個不同面向的服務很多廠商也非常感謝"},{"start":220.605,"end":228.973,"text":"現在政府有這樣一個新的發展OK真的是要肯定喬爾會要肯定委員長因為我記得像之前的時候我們也曾經討論過相關的議題那時候我也跟委員長有建議就是說其實我們有很多來自東南亞、越南跟印尼的這個僑生、僑外生所以也希望就是說我們把這個點能夠擴展到當地那委員長我想這個部分我想"},{"start":244.927,"end":262.959,"text":"委員長這邊一直都有來做這個推動所以我今天看到報告裡面有提到說有印尼文有越南文我講是不是這也是一個我們要去設置這個華語文中心的一個事先的一個布局那當然除了剛剛委員長所提到的像這個澳洲我們有看到就是說其實"},{"start":263.459,"end":279.513,"text":"TCML我們的設置計畫最主要的契機還是說因為歐美國家他陸續對中國的孔子學院提出了一些疑慮嘛所以我們他們在陸陸續續都關閉了一些孔子學院跟孔子學院終止了這個合作那像美國他本來有100多所那現在減到可能就個位"},{"start":280.513,"end":303.642,"text":"為數那再來剛剛還有就是委員長所提到的這個澳洲那我們也知道說最近其實澳洲也關閉了六所大學的這個孔子學院所以像墨爾本大學昆斯蘭大學這個西澳大學等等他們都把孔子學院給關閉了我在想這也是我們華語文中心進駐一個很好的一個一個一個契機那我不曉得說就是喬我會這邊"},{"start":305.283,"end":328.889,"text":"澳洲是不是未來我們可能要首先要去部署的一個點像這個日本也是像日本的話之前也打算要加強對中國的這個所設置的孔子學院做這個審查那甚至南韓的國情院他對境內的孔子學院其實也進行調查當中像這些國家慢慢的對孔子學院的這個角色"},{"start":329.349,"end":343.038,"text":"其實產生了很大的這個疑慮像其實這個部分呢其實都是我們華語文中心呢進去的一個很好的一個時間點所以我不曉得就是說橋友會這部分的未來的部署有沒有比較詳細的一些計畫"},{"start":344.699,"end":349.22,"text":"跟委員報告 我們第一期的中長程期計畫是從2020年底12月跟美國簽訂的這個台美教育倡議開始以後那我們第一期計畫呢事實上到今年2025年已經告一段落因此我們已經向國發會提出了下第二期的中長程期計畫就從2026年到2029年那這四年一期的計畫呢我們當然是希望持續的拓展"},{"start":374.287,"end":400.198,"text":"那過去這四年當中雖然在疫情期間我們仍然沒有停滯在美國跟歐洲的腳步那因此接下來下面第二期大的這個計畫我們是希望向全球所以我們會更布局在亞太區中南美洲也都會持續的來設立華語文學習中心那麼我剛剛有特別口頭說明的時候提到明年開始日本會有兩所澳洲會有四所"},{"start":401.078,"end":413.442,"text":"那分別就是剛剛委員你關心的我們在西澳就是西澳目前沒有但是在墨爾本在雪梨在布里斯本都有一所各一所到兩所的這個佈局那因此這個是我們知道"},{"start":418.163,"end":439.336,"text":"澳洲的這個人口比較集中的這個大都會區我們已經都布局了Morbon好像是一所對不對雪梨有兩所然後這個布里斯本有一所那同時我們也在紐西蘭今年也有一所奧克蘭所以我們已經都開始超前這個做一些作業那麼明年度開始呢他們就會陸續開始啟動這個營運計畫那麼加拿大也有三所"},{"start":445.76,"end":447.941,"text":"分別在東岸及西岸都兩個大都會溫哥華以及多倫多那這些都是我們在這幾年密切的看到台灣由於經濟科技的蓬勃發展那有非常多的這個國際的廠商或者國際人士"},{"start":464.071,"end":479.794,"text":"想要來台灣促進商機因此他們學習華語的動機就變強了倒不純然跟孔子學院有什麼關係我們也沒有要跟他們競爭因為大家的發展方向是完全不同的他只是在做政治性的宣傳對我們來說我們是希望能夠善盡國際社會的意願讓台灣的文化也能夠讓更多的國際社會認識所以我們的華語文學習中心有兩個重點一個就是語言的學習第二個就是文化的交流"},{"start":492.697,"end":513.295,"text":"那所以透过我们的华语文中心的设置我们希望能够达到这样的一个好的方向谢谢OK好非常肯定我们乔友会在这方面的这个努力因为这是我第二次呢咨询我们乔友会这个华语文中心学习的这个进展那这次呢真的看到报告里面其实有很多让我们觉得非常肯定的地方所以乔友会继续加油谢谢谢谢"}]}},{"id":"165235","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165235","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3c03f8333bdf742cd8abc180ec3481d024cf7b889f21dc7b710110eaefe7530705ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"萬美玲","委員發言時間":"09:26:43 - 09:36:39","影片長度":"00:09:56","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:26:43+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:36:39+08:00","duration":596,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":15.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.028468750000002,"end":19.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.35284375,"end":21.344093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.58471875,"end":21.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.344093750000003,"end":24.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.309718750000002,"end":36.244718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.68346875,"end":39.197843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.32846875,"end":41.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.68284375,"end":49.103468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.73221875,"end":49.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.01471875,"end":58.688468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.94159375,"end":70.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.14409375,"end":60.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.65284375,"end":78.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.39846875,"end":80.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.47409375000001,"end":112.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.80221875000001,"end":118.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.18159375,"end":147.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.53534375,"end":153.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.26034375,"end":153.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.67784375000002,"end":169.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.25346875000002,"end":182.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.19659375,"end":183.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.42846875,"end":183.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.96846875,"end":184.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.33534375000002,"end":194.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.05971875,"end":199.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.93221875,"end":201.36659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.53534375,"end":212.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.44659375,"end":203.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.08284375000002,"end":210.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.42846875,"end":210.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.04846875,"end":213.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.46596875,"end":216.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.60471875000002,"end":249.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.01534375000003,"end":235.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.98346875000001,"end":255.72096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.87284375000002,"end":256.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.56471875,"end":257.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.84721875,"end":265.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.74971875,"end":262.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.41596875,"end":263.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.40721875,"end":290.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.85471875,"end":292.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.98971875,"end":291.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.46221875000003,"end":291.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.66034375000004,"end":306.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.76096875,"end":297.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.29534375000003,"end":320.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.60534375000003,"end":322.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.97221875,"end":324.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.28409375,"end":325.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.09409375,"end":326.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.61284375,"end":329.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.09784375000004,"end":331.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.89471875000004,"end":332.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.18159375000005,"end":367.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.39971875000003,"end":387.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.02784375000005,"end":371.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.12659375000004,"end":417.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.05846875000003,"end":418.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.81784375,"end":456.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.19159375000004,"end":466.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.45596875,"end":468.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.98721875,"end":470.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.60721875,"end":470.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.89409375,"end":470.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.91096875000005,"end":470.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.18096875000003,"end":474.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.28596875000005,"end":475.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.38284375,"end":477.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.54721875,"end":477.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.49221875,"end":501.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.86159375000005,"end":490.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.99471875000006,"end":534.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.93471875,"end":546.9834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.70596875,"end":540.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.5615937499999,"end":548.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.89471875,"end":572.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.3840937500001,"end":548.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.0047187499999,"end":593.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.7947187500001,"end":594.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.9465937500001,"end":594.6553437499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.149,"end":15.432,"text":"負擔還有管理各方面的問題所以次日張亮萬間次長就已經講說利益雖佳但容易引起誤解後續會請體育署審慎評估跟基層學校溝通讓有意願的學校來示範請問一下評估的結果是什麼"},{"start":16.369,"end":38.927,"text":"报告委员 目前我们在那次讲重点好不好 因为今天时间有限大概有五个县市来申请他们主动来申请我们当然之前有办过说明会目前大概是两百多万的经费因为目前牵涉到所以现在有五个县市基础学校"},{"start":40.513,"end":58.395,"text":"48所学校有5所县市48所学校所以有可以配合但看起来就是多数的学校其实是没有办法配合的包括没有强迫对 也不会强迫好 那我们就看你这个政策刚刚有讲你这些球具 器材只要他们有来申请所有的经费都是运动部来出吗"},{"start":59.396,"end":76.863,"text":"預算都編在運動部嗎因為我們目前是限制在說給各縣市的補助最高九成那我們現在簽到行政院來看看是不是可以專案來解除這個九成的限制所以現在你的意思是說如果有該縣市的學校願意來辦我們給他九成剩下一成還是要縣市來編預算來做是嗎"},{"start":78.464,"end":108.207,"text":"目前是按照规定是这样但我们专案前好那这无疑第一个这个政策下去跟基层的沟通也不够及时也不够明确那会引起很大的反弹所以本来利益良好反而让大家觉得非常厌恶那第二个呢预算看起来还要麻烦地方的县市政府我觉得也不太对那看你是不是应该要打破那但是呢如果现在有县市这个学校要办的话那怎么去管理这批东西那人员如果在假日跟这个下班以后那这些"},{"start":108.527,"end":112.42,"text":"不只是器具喔 還有加班費喔那這個加班費 運動部有沒有一起編進去"},{"start":113.854,"end":140.486,"text":"保委員目前這部分還沒有聽縣市政府提出這樣子的提求所以你看看如果沒有你一樣又要增加教育局處事的一個負擔所以本席這樣講如果我們經過溝通以後願意辦的人他自然有他已經可以去接受但是第一個預算經費我們要足額去來購買第二個所產生的這些行政人員的加班費然後相關的這些不管是警衛的費用等等"},{"start":141.506,"end":168.18,"text":"我覺得運動部要盤點一下是不是這個預算也從運動部這邊來支付這可以做到嗎是包委員我們現在示範的時候我們會傾聽地方的聲音我們會針對這些一些過程來說好再來本席看到全民運動署在115年的預算中編列了2億這2億上面寫要配合校園開放推動全民運動所需的器材請教一下你剛剛所說的要補給學校就是這2億的錢嗎"},{"start":169.301,"end":183.131,"text":"包委員那這部分是配合我們在做全民運動的推廣如果學校願意配合校園開放讓我們的社區這些不管運動事業或是俱樂部能夠跟學校有一個合作的話我們來獎勵學校在他們的這個錢就給學校對是這樣嗎對"},{"start":185.413,"end":212.612,"text":"那就是說不管是哪一個社團哪一個社區他要到學校辦活動那學校如果同意的話我們就把相關的經費補給學校是這樣嗎幫委員應該說是我們會經過這些來申請要跟學校有一個合作的機制所以補社團補社區應該是社區的俱樂部他們來跟學校要求要合作如果學校願意配合把校園開放那你這個經費是補給誰我們會補助學校他的消耗性然後學校再給他"},{"start":213.934,"end":229.888,"text":"沒有 那是屬於學校的消耗性器材消耗性器材 好那如果是屬於學校消耗性器材跟本席剛剛所講你這個買這些球具啊 這些器材啊等等啊我看起來其實蠻重疊的啦所以呢 我想不管是哪一筆預算請你們把它 這個"},{"start":231.669,"end":257.427,"text":"序名清楚否则在预算的时候其实我们可能还会再来讨论一下好 再来青春动资券体育署那时候的体育署就您在的时候112年就开始发放青春动资券请问一下我们发放这个动资券给16到22岁的青年原因是什么因为这个年龄层的学生在我们的规律运动的比例是偏低偏低原因呢"},{"start":257.961,"end":273.212,"text":"就是可能因為課業壓力或是我們在這部分全面的推廣所以我們希望未來能夠增加很好嘛所以本席之前我們也是非常贊成那也很支持那我們來看一下這個表格你現在符合的人數"},{"start":274.113,"end":292.319,"text":"差不多大概就是145萬150萬這個上下可是我們看到領券率從112年的52%那麼到113年的37%到114年33%沒有人要來領啊你的美意怎麼回事沒有人要接受這個美意啊"},{"start":292.699,"end":319.351,"text":"沒有錯 您講的沒有錯所以這部分就是我們現在在檢討我們是不是要做一個轉型所以這部分我們正在部內也在研議是不是要轉成一個運動幣或甚至跟衛福部有一個跨部會的合作所以這部分我們正在轉成運動幣 好所以本席好像也有了解你要轉成運動幣發放的對象本來是16歲到22歲但你想要改成16歲以上的民眾皆可登記抽籤 是這樣嗎"},{"start":320.672,"end":328.137,"text":"包委员接着还在演绎当中但有这个演绎的案子吗有这样的演绎案子有为什么会这样想因为我们现在讲全民运动"},{"start":351.193,"end":366.854,"text":"那按照现在我们现在10月到22岁他领取率只有33%搞不好会变更低或者在我们有限的动试券里面恐怕会让不是这个年龄层的人他领走了那你当初的美意就没有达到啦你的青春动试券就不青春啦"},{"start":367.475,"end":389.316,"text":"報告委員 當然我們現在研議的不叫青春運動幣但第二個 我們這也反映出我們的全民運動 規律運動這件事情需要大力的去推展才有可能讓全民的運動這件事情能夠去投入這也是從青春運動日卷我們得到的一個結論我們為什麼要設立全民動數就是希望全齡化這部分一起來加油我同意 但是本席給你一個建議"},{"start":390.217,"end":417.766,"text":"我觉得您从在体育署的时候提出的利益良善16岁到22岁的学生我们可以去鼓励他所以是不是你们在研译这个运动币的时候本身希望能不能维持我们让16岁到22岁的学生他一样是可以去领取运动币但是我们也可以开放22岁以上再来做筹钱我想这样的一个案子可以维持你之前希望让年轻的孩子可以参与率提高希望次长待会去研译一下好吗"},{"start":418.066,"end":436.077,"text":"好謝謝委員好那最後一個我想運動部現在有提出來這部長上任以後要求單項協會在這個運動委員會上面有一些改變跟改革就是說我們現在在10月17號韓文去44個這個所謂的單項運動協會"},{"start":440.84,"end":456.03,"text":"希望他在推動運動員委員會的時候要用選舉的方式來產生這樣的一個計畫我想請教一下你這個文也發出去將近一個月的時間了目前有多少單項協會去修改了這樣的辦法"},{"start":458.465,"end":475.141,"text":"据我所知应该是前两天我们有办一个说明会那这部分我是不是请市长就给我一个数字就好啊有多少我们12月底前会目前12月底前协会会提送他们的办法那目前都没有"},{"start":475.501,"end":501.231,"text":"目前還沒有因為我們前兩天才剛如果目前都沒有事實上現在已經11月多了我看起來時間其實蠻緊迫的啦但是我不禁要問啦原來我們是希望就是說這個運動員委員會因為都攸關於運動員本身的權益嘛那所以你們是希望說讓這個進一屆的啊或是在一年之內有經過賽事這些現役的這個選手他們可以來參與表達他們的意見我覺得利益很好但是有沒有去注意到一件事情就是說"},{"start":502.311,"end":524.323,"text":"這些在這個近一屆或近一年有參與賽事的這些選手他們有沒有多餘的心力可以來做這個運動員委員會的這個事情如果我們只是一廂情願說我們要讓他來做開放可是事實上有多少人可以這樣來受這是第一件第二個也就是說如果到時候都沒有你所謂的現役的近一屆近一年的這個選手來登記來參與的時候"},{"start":526.764,"end":533.999,"text":"那是不是還是回到這個理事長來推薦那我們怎麼樣去破除掉這個過去認為不公平不透明"},{"start":535,"end":557.949,"text":"包委員當然我們李部長在下週會到親自找國訓中心跟我們國家隊的選手們來做一個說明座談那當然也是鼓勵他們能夠來登機參選再來運動員委員會他設立有些事情不是鼓勵就做得到當然當然但是就是我們設置會議不會那麼頻繁最重要的是我們在選訓的制度上面經過去經常發生一些漏洞而這些現役選手以他們目前的狀況他們能夠給選訓"},{"start":560.47,"end":575.058,"text":"一個比較直接的建議所以我們當然未來希望我們的選訓辦法能夠先經過運動員委員會先幫忙看過是不是有哪些遺漏之處或是不夠完整之處然後再來送選訓委員會來做進一步的研議為了我們的運動發展能夠更好"},{"start":575.418,"end":594.26,"text":"很多的面向我們現在都要從頭開始或是在做一些改革或是在做一些加強但是本席希望我們在改變的那個時候有很多的事項我們方方面面都要去顧及到才不會顧此時彼所以辦法或是配套每一個計畫當中我們都要去詳實好不好好 謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"165234","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165234","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe31ae857a8bb692775906ee7c1e9a76e5a4cf7b889f21dc7b77b98ec381cd5a4705ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳秉叡","委員發言時間":"09:22:21 - 09:33:01","影片長度":"00:10:40","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:22:21+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:33:01+08:00","duration":640,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.708468750000002,"end":13.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.070968750000002,"end":14.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.54721875,"end":17.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.082843750000002,"end":19.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.137218750000002,"end":26.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.91284375,"end":29.933468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.18659375,"end":31.671593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.95846875,"end":31.992218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.992218750000006,"end":32.329718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.329718750000005,"end":33.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.346593750000004,"end":33.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.439093750000005,"end":34.979093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.63721875,"end":36.987218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.22346875,"end":40.041593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.51409375,"end":40.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.71659375,"end":41.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.89784375,"end":43.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.16346875,"end":44.040968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.59784375,"end":44.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.369718750000004,"end":47.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.68596875,"end":48.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.93471875,"end":50.976593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.65159375,"end":53.963468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.55409375,"end":55.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.617218750000006,"end":55.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.14034375000001,"end":56.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.08534375,"end":59.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.650343750000005,"end":61.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.79346875,"end":64.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.96596875,"end":65.67471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.61971875,"end":67.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.68284375,"end":68.62784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.11721875,"end":72.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.04909375,"end":74.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.32284375,"end":77.50409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.28034375,"end":78.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.28846875,"end":84.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.64221875000001,"end":86.17784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.63346875,"end":87.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.96659375,"end":89.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.97471875000001,"end":99.89721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.15034375,"end":107.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.72721875,"end":109.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.24159375,"end":115.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.42221875000001,"end":124.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.63596875,"end":125.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.35721875,"end":134.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.81159375000001,"end":142.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.37159375000002,"end":151.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.29409375,"end":165.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.62971875000002,"end":166.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.53659375,"end":167.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.37596875,"end":170.63721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.16034375,"end":171.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.30784375000002,"end":172.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.10096875000002,"end":183.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.42409375000003,"end":188.25471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.60909375,"end":208.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.29784375000003,"end":220.68846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.94159375,"end":221.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.00471875000002,"end":222.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.57409375,"end":226.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.44284375,"end":227.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.52284375000002,"end":228.31596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.85596875000002,"end":229.61534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.25659375,"end":230.81346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.20159375,"end":233.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.56409375,"end":233.80034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.35721875000002,"end":234.72846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.98159375,"end":237.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.01909375000002,"end":239.67284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.01034375,"end":243.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.73971875,"end":245.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.52846875,"end":247.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.87409375000001,"end":250.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.38846875000002,"end":250.64159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.64159375000003,"end":251.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.78909375,"end":252.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.03784375,"end":253.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.26971875,"end":257.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.74596875000003,"end":259.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.10846875000004,"end":260.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.08721875000003,"end":261.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.09971875,"end":263.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.46221875000003,"end":264.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.62659375000004,"end":267.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.71909375,"end":268.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.96784375000004,"end":273.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.09784375000004,"end":274.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.13159375000004,"end":275.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.24534375,"end":275.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.44784375,"end":282.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.68284375,"end":291.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.15409375,"end":295.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.42784375,"end":298.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.80284375,"end":300.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.08096875,"end":301.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.95846875,"end":314.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.34471875,"end":318.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.79971875,"end":320.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.09471875,"end":324.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.84096875,"end":327.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.76034375,"end":328.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.82346875,"end":329.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.08909375,"end":331.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.18159375000005,"end":333.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.58221875000004,"end":336.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.50159375000004,"end":339.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.72471875,"end":339.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.94409375000004,"end":340.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.12534375,"end":346.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.32284375,"end":349.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.24221875,"end":351.75659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.79034375000003,"end":353.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.79846875000004,"end":360.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.22346875,"end":366.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.16346875000005,"end":374.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.96409375,"end":374.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.65596875,"end":380.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.37659375000004,"end":382.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.22846875000005,"end":388.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.51034375,"end":388.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.91534375000003,"end":390.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.31596875,"end":392.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.76284375,"end":394.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.02409375,"end":397.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.79159375,"end":398.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.05284375,"end":400.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.53784375000004,"end":403.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.76534375,"end":404.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.71034375000005,"end":408.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.62534375,"end":410.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.89096875,"end":410.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.15659375,"end":417.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.83909375,"end":422.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.17159375,"end":427.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.01471875000004,"end":455.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.01034375,"end":458.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.08159375,"end":465.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.64596875,"end":468.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.07159375000003,"end":470.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.87721875000005,"end":470.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.89409375,"end":471.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.16409375,"end":473.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.28596875000005,"end":478.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.26409375000003,"end":480.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.45784375000005,"end":484.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.86659375000005,"end":493.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.59096875000006,"end":496.64534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.94909375000003,"end":502.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.58534375000005,"end":510.43221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.02284375000005,"end":515.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.3347187500001,"end":514.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.0390937500001,"end":523.7465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.2065937500001,"end":537.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.0490937500001,"end":532.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.2297187500001,"end":537.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.61784375,"end":551.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.0459687499999,"end":568.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.11659375,"end":559.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.70159375,"end":574.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.45596875,"end":580.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.95721875,"end":584.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.2390937499999,"end":586.7240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.8928437500001,"end":619.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.1784687500001,"end":596.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.28846875,"end":625.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.35096875,"end":633.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.9740937500001,"end":636.1003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.1003437500001,"end":636.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.2353437500001,"end":637.5009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.01159375,"end":640.97721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.707,"end":31.246,"text":"主席麻煩請金管會彭主委請彭主委委員長主委早今年議題跟那個普惠金融有關那普惠金融一個過去歷史上有名的案例就是是不是孟加拉這個國民銀行"},{"start":34.488,"end":43.078,"text":"把他用小兒的貸款給一些要就業的婦女還有一些小商販所以他還獲得諾貝爾獎可見這個在經濟很弱勢的人的身上"},{"start":51.707,"end":74.64,"text":"其實是如果從這個案例來看是很有效果的因為在那樣子的經濟環境裡面可能是要去取得相當於台幣幣值一兩萬塊錢的貸款都有困擾所以變成有一些想要做一些小生意的他連最起碼的資本都沒有這個事情是從那邊來的那以這個案例來講其實"},{"start":80.373,"end":109.823,"text":"如果類比這樣台灣需要這麼小的這個微型貸款的這個民眾人數應該相對比例是少很多少很多這個我在過去在當老師的時候有對這個做過蠻全面的研究確實像剛剛那個模式會普遍存在在南亞還有非洲還有以前的早期的東歐那其他國家的所謂的微型金融比較不會是這個型態那台灣的微型金融是什麼樣子的型態"},{"start":110.425,"end":134.225,"text":"維新金融主要是我們現在還是有一些比較經濟弱勢還有就是一些比如說它整個在特別還有就是我們不同的像我們現在看到的就是因為我們現在的金融服務大概會集中在假設人口分佈的中段比如說可能15歲到65歲之間的人其實還有兩端中間還有一些不同比較弱勢經濟弱勢的人他通常很難在很多的商品"},{"start":135.247,"end":141.849,"text":"得到一個完整的比如說像我們現在的保險商品都有一個最低的承保金額的限制"},{"start":142.438,"end":167.508,"text":"那就像剛剛委員也有研究像印度他們在賣洗髮精的時候他們就覺得奇怪這麼大罐賣不出去他就做成小瓶裝因為很多人他根本買不起整瓶在儲存他只能買小瓶所以後來我們推了微型保險現在把它微小化 小額化但是這個概念我們希望能夠透過商品的設計跟費率的這樣一個能夠滲入到這些不同的群體這個是很好的一個想法"},{"start":168.408,"end":183.487,"text":"但是問題是在台灣的實用性到底你認為很高嗎其實台灣確實是我們在微型保險的部分我們也看到還有微型金融部分市場不如其他比如說剛才講的大家提到以前有個那個"},{"start":184.528,"end":207.63,"text":"那個諾貝亞經濟學家他提出一個金字塔底層的商機就是說當一個國家的貧富在特別是那個最貧窮那個底層那個底部非常大的時候像這種國家地區就非常適合來推動這個但是我們基本上我們以我們現在台灣的財富平均的結果雖然說我們不是大部分都是很有錢但是我們下面底層的那個"},{"start":209.332,"end":237.213,"text":"那個母數是比較小的所以整個規模上比較困難做到但是我覺得這還是不能放棄我剛才也提過像這一塊絕對不會是我們金融機構的主力課程一定要透過政策的導引才有辦法這個之前蘇貞昌院長在當院長的時候他對於我們台灣的國有銀行他的放款借貸都傾向於集中化大型化那鼓勵中小企業的貸款"},{"start":238.206,"end":264.712,"text":"變得很困難所以他把貸款的金額的成績的計算不是用金額計算用件數加以評比進去也是有這樣子的精神在就是說有的時候站在銀行的角色來看他希望借錢給有錢人那希望一次借很大條的錢這樣既保障然後好像一下業績又很高但是"},{"start":266.113,"end":282.774,"text":"從服務的角度來看這樣的觀念是不對的當然 其實剛剛委員提到就是說今年剛好是我們推動中小企業放款第20年有繼續在增長嗎有跟委員報告一個數字是這樣因為我前幾天才跟銀行局在討論這件事情因為這20週年翻轉了我們整個銀行放款的配比"},{"start":283.735,"end":310.262,"text":"在那個之前我們大概我們整個銀行總放款在那個中小企業大概只佔大概3成5左右那其他就是可能6成5是大企業經過這20年呢剛好這個比例就翻轉過來了就等於說我們整個銀行的放款對整個企業的放款裡面已經跟以前很大不同因為我們在我剛才也跟陳柱委員提到這個東西假設由放任由銀行去做的話他大概還是會朝向那個容易做好做的地方做但是呢"},{"start":310.802,"end":328.141,"text":"我們透過政策來導引確實我們看這20年來確實有很明顯的感覺我覺得這個要繼續加強為什麼因為台灣的產業環境跟很多國家不太一樣像我們跟韓國對比韓國是集中在大企業上他們的國家的經濟主導主要都是幾家大的這個財團"},{"start":330.143,"end":356.369,"text":"但台灣其實是一個中小企業遍佈我們台灣的觀念是打群架的觀念所以我們這個對我們台灣的產業的環境是很重要的很多企業他的真正需要貸款的反而是這些比較中小的企業已經很有錢的企業他要貸款沒有困難啦不用特別再去加強我舉個例子你如果說台塑要來跟你貸款台積電要來跟你貸款我看銀行應該都很高興就趕快放款給他嘛"},{"start":357.069,"end":366.367,"text":"因為這個很有擔保然後一次業務又可以做得很大但是真正需要讓我們台灣各地的產業能發展的是這個中小企業的這個貸款"},{"start":368.839,"end":391.666,"text":"像這也是為什麼我們會有一些中小企業的支持機構像信保基金這些都是來做這些事因為他要補足銀行所擔心那個風險的那個部位那其實這樣就可以做到這個的補強你提到的就是我想要講的一個重點這其實因為無論是金融的活動或是貸款這裡面都有一個信用這個性質在這裡面作為他主要支撐的骨幹"},{"start":392.833,"end":400.449,"text":"那你那個微型的普惠的他一個很大的困難就是你這個信用的真性"},{"start":401.564,"end":422.239,"text":"沒有那麼容易因為你面對那麼多人突然之間那麼多人都來那你都要徵信那你要花的成本是非常的巨大的那花了這麼巨大的成本又沒有辦法從你的這個交易中間去獲利回來的話那會出現困難度會產生在這個地方你是不是這樣認同"},{"start":423.54,"end":447.609,"text":"這當然是 這很實務也是非常精準的實務的問題因為銀行它本身大部分都是個盈利事業它當然以最小的成本獲得最大的利益但是銀行也是個特許事業它必須擔負著一定程度的社會責任所以剛才講到說如果你沒有做任何的措施它大概還是會走向一個比較容易做好做好賺的地方就會忽略這些很大的客群這也是為什麼"},{"start":448.669,"end":458.542,"text":"在一個高度階段行業政策要持續的去對這一塊做一些不管是獎勵或是一些的一些措施去希望他做到這一點"},{"start":459.144,"end":478.525,"text":"以中國的過去從發生案例P2P的借貸平台後來倒帳都金額非常的巨大那P2P這個後來證實說他很困難的原因在哪裡就是你徵信沒有辦法你在網路上面的這個徵信他對於他來申請的人你無法徵信因為你要講究的是快速"},{"start":479.326,"end":501.497,"text":"然後要便捷但是真信不是一件快速跟便捷就可以達到的事情而且其實很關鍵是當時這個P2P平台它不像是我們的那個所謂的間接金融銀行是負擔中間風險承擔所以它中間會有一個保護機制它沒有 它只是一個平台就讓你之間再撮合那彼此你沒辦法做好真信就讓這個客戶暴露在風險下面"},{"start":502.657,"end":510.204,"text":"是啦 從這樣的觀念你來看到網路上的虛擬貨幣交易也是一樣的情況如果中間的這一個人他只是仲介說你們去交易"},{"start":511.089,"end":537.105,"text":"那事實上沒有真性在這裡面就很容易衍生非常多的弊端這也是我們要納管當然過去在野蠻成長的時候大概是這個方式只要雙方可以接受就好但我覺得納管以後問題是雙方接受他是在什麼樣基礎上接受如果沒有真性的話接受可能就是一個感冒非常大的風險譬如說你這網路的貸款假設是人跟人之間的貸款所以它那個利率就要拉得很高"},{"start":537.745,"end":563.511,"text":"因為我可能我做實踐的這個交易我可能裡面要倒賬三四件那我只好把利率拉高所以這個機制是如果沒有信在裡面我認為這個機制是有很大的問題對 這是核心這個是確實像委員講的沒有錯就是比如說政府的監管就是一個信用增強非常重要的機制這個就是讓民眾說我不需要這麼多的專業知識我只要看到"},{"start":564.131,"end":573.918,"text":"政府在監管我就可以把這個東西相信這是一個很重要的效率化的過程所以我現在再回過頭來我們台灣的個案之前監管會核准的三家網路銀行現在有獲利了嗎"},{"start":574.7,"end":594.699,"text":"現在應該應該還沒有因為他們現在才還在一個建制還在這個過程當中他推廣業務的過程中這個徵訊是一個他很大的問題很大的困難這一部分要如何解決他們有他們特殊性就像我們最近開放幾家銀行的事辦因為過去銀行強調5P5P一定要過去你有一些"},{"start":595.319,"end":619.527,"text":"對啊你們也要求要認識客戶啊那我是小白我根本就沒有這個怎麼辦他就要想到其他的指標來代表他的風險如果可以做到這一點的話其實這樣可以大幅的減少這個的落差所以我們一直希望其實他們在數位金融就有這個優勢我們一直希望他帶動一個就是說不要用一個傳統的概念來經營因為未來世界變化很大如果可以用一個新的觀念說不定更精準"},{"start":620.527,"end":639.339,"text":"對 那但是今天這個主題啊無論是推動普惠金融或是金融科技啊都不要忘了這中間還是要有信用在裡面做骨幹是那如何既便捷又不會去失去它的準則不然的話有可能會造成災難喔是加油謝謝 謝謝委員的那個指導 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165237","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165237","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3de2e96158380e35a57c737e12387eef84cf7b889f21dc7b7ff17e4b1fda114c95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"09:19:15 - 09:37:00","影片長度":"00:17:45","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:19:15+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:37:00+08:00","duration":1065,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3.2372187500000003,"end":3.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.25409375,"end":9.126593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.51471875,"end":12.130343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.649093750000002,"end":14.374718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.859718750000003,"end":16.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.05784375,"end":22.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.22471875,"end":31.739093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.768468750000004,"end":33.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":33.96659375,"end":34.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.94534375,"end":34.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":34.962218750000005,"end":34.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":35.502218750000004,"end":37.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":38.354093750000004,"end":40.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":41.391593750000006,"end":44.159093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":45.23909375,"end":46.150343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":46.977218750000006,"end":55.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":57.49034375,"end":58.283468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":58.367843750000006,"end":59.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":60.274718750000005,"end":61.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":62.603468750000005,"end":64.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":65.87721875,"end":67.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":67.83471875000001,"end":72.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":74.77034375000001,"end":76.23846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":76.86284375000001,"end":78.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":78.44909375,"end":79.61346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":80.50784375,"end":81.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":82.34721875000001,"end":83.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":84.33846875,"end":85.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":86.14409375000001,"end":87.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":87.79784375,"end":90.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":92.11784375,"end":94.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":96.42096875,"end":98.63159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":99.72846875,"end":102.78284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":103.64346875000001,"end":106.00596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":106.52909375,"end":108.52034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":108.82409375,"end":111.25409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.98784375000001,"end":116.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":116.68784375000001,"end":116.90721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":116.95784375000001,"end":118.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":119.32034375,"end":120.26534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":120.73784375000001,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":122.49284375,"end":123.94409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":123.97784375,"end":124.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":124.18034375,"end":127.23471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":127.45409375000001,"end":130.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":131.03159375,"end":132.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":133.44471875000002,"end":134.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":134.98034375,"end":138.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":139.72221875,"end":142.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":142.48971875,"end":149.52659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.46721875,"end":154.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":153.93096875,"end":154.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":154.38659375,"end":157.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.28909375,"end":165.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":157.30596875,"end":157.45784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":165.52409375000002,"end":167.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.85284375,"end":168.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":168.27471875,"end":170.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":170.38409375,"end":170.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.41784375,"end":171.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":170.45159375,"end":170.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":170.65409375000002,"end":172.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.78034375000001,"end":172.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.20221875000001,"end":174.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":174.34971875000002,"end":176.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.76284375,"end":177.30284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":177.30284375000002,"end":184.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":184.79534375,"end":185.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.80346875,"end":187.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":187.42784375000002,"end":191.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":192.72659375,"end":193.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.81909375,"end":195.83159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":196.13534375,"end":200.91096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.91159375,"end":197.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.71721875,"end":199.20659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.02909375000002,"end":202.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":201.78846875000002,"end":205.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":205.95659375000002,"end":212.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":213.46596875,"end":214.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":215.55846875,"end":216.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":217.17846875,"end":218.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":218.95034375,"end":220.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":220.31721875000002,"end":220.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":221.36346875,"end":222.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":223.06784375,"end":224.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.02971875,"end":224.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":224.80596875,"end":228.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.99159375000002,"end":226.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":229.46346875,"end":230.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":231.50534375,"end":234.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":234.42471875,"end":240.65159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":241.19159375,"end":243.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":244.02659375000002,"end":246.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":247.57034375,"end":249.79784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":250.57409375,"end":253.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":254.08409375000002,"end":260.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":260.56409375000004,"end":262.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":263.75346875,"end":265.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":266.60534375000003,"end":267.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":268.57971875000004,"end":269.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":270.82409375000003,"end":273.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":273.70971875000004,"end":275.32971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":276.24096875000004,"end":278.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":279.71721875000003,"end":282.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.80096875000004,"end":292.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":291.98534375,"end":295.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":296.18721875,"end":299.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":299.69721875000005,"end":299.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.73096875000005,"end":301.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":301.08096875,"end":301.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.73909375,"end":301.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":301.97534375000004,"end":302.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.02596875,"end":302.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":302.48159375,"end":302.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.53221875,"end":309.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":302.54909375,"end":304.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":307.96596875,"end":308.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":308.70846875,"end":321.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.17659375,"end":310.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.31096875000003,"end":315.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":322.25909375000003,"end":328.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.04284375000003,"end":329.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":329.09346875,"end":336.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":337.02471875000003,"end":338.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":339.28596875,"end":342.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":343.16721875,"end":344.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":344.70284375,"end":345.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":346.81221875,"end":351.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":355.09784375000004,"end":357.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":359.85659375,"end":364.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":365.96534375000005,"end":367.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":370.30221875,"end":373.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":374.92596875000004,"end":377.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":377.81159375000004,"end":379.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":379.81971875000005,"end":382.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":383.36346875000004,"end":384.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":385.89471875000004,"end":388.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":389.16846875000005,"end":391.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":392.56034375,"end":396.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":396.88034375,"end":398.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":399.95159375000003,"end":405.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":406.95471875000004,"end":411.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.03846875000005,"end":413.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.29971875,"end":418.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":417.33284375000005,"end":424.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":425.39909375,"end":426.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":427.64346875,"end":430.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":431.79471875,"end":433.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":434.56221875000006,"end":435.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":437.14409375,"end":438.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":438.76409375000003,"end":440.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":441.49784375,"end":443.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":444.50159375000004,"end":448.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":449.10846875000004,"end":450.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":450.99846875000003,"end":452.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":453.24284375,"end":454.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":455.87534375,"end":457.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":458.30534375,"end":461.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":462.97971875,"end":464.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":465.66284375000004,"end":467.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":468.88596875,"end":471.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":472.66596875000005,"end":473.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":474.72471875,"end":476.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":477.01971875000004,"end":478.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":478.90971875,"end":481.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":482.16659375,"end":484.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":485.50784375,"end":487.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":487.60034375000004,"end":490.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":491.21159375,"end":492.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":493.21971875,"end":494.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":497.86034375,"end":498.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":500.66159375,"end":501.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":502.63596875,"end":504.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":504.55971875000006,"end":505.92659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":505.97721875,"end":506.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":506.34846875000005,"end":508.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":508.89659375,"end":511.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":512.18721875,"end":513.6215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":514.6172187500001,"end":525.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":526.34534375,"end":527.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":528.45471875,"end":531.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":531.55971875,"end":536.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":536.63909375,"end":537.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":538.7822187500001,"end":539.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":541.0772187499999,"end":544.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":546.88221875,"end":548.6203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":550.4765937500001,"end":553.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":554.8472187500001,"end":556.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":556.3659687500001,"end":557.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":558.25596875,"end":559.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":560.6184687500001,"end":561.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":562.7278437500001,"end":564.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":565.17471875,"end":567.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":568.27971875,"end":569.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":569.96721875,"end":571.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":572.46471875,"end":573.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":574.57409375,"end":575.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":576.56534375,"end":577.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":578.6072187500001,"end":579.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":581.4253437500001,"end":582.4209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":583.18034375,"end":585.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":586.6228437500001,"end":588.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":588.8334687500001,"end":590.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":590.8584687499999,"end":591.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":593.2209687500001,"end":595.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":595.97159375,"end":597.1865937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":600.73034375,"end":601.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":602.0972187500001,"end":602.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":602.97471875,"end":603.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":604.3078437500001,"end":605.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":607.1765937499999,"end":612.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":613.94346875,"end":618.0947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":618.5334687500001,"end":619.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":620.6597187500001,"end":623.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":623.7647187499999,"end":626.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":633.51846875,"end":634.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.34534375,"end":634.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":636.43784375,"end":637.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.72034375,"end":640.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":640.6059687500001,"end":647.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":648.25034375,"end":649.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":650.51159375,"end":652.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":653.76846875,"end":656.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":657.3797187499999,"end":664.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":665.4797187500001,"end":666.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":667.6397187500002,"end":671.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":671.77409375,"end":673.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":674.96346875,"end":677.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":678.7097187500001,"end":681.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":682.7765937500001,"end":685.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":686.53971875,"end":689.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":689.45909375,"end":692.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":693.27284375,"end":697.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":697.1203437500001,"end":700.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":701.30534375,"end":704.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":704.93346875,"end":708.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":709.5065937500001,"end":711.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":712.08846875,"end":714.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":715.07534375,"end":717.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":718.48409375,"end":722.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":722.78721875,"end":725.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":726.46596875,"end":729.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":729.9084687500001,"end":731.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":731.68034375,"end":732.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":734.1440937500001,"end":735.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":736.6753437500001,"end":738.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":738.3290937500001,"end":740.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":740.11784375,"end":749.9053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":750.09096875,"end":752.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":752.8415937500001,"end":757.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":757.51596875,"end":760.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":761.75159375,"end":764.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":764.41784375,"end":767.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":767.50596875,"end":770.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":771.18471875,"end":772.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":773.56409375,"end":774.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.36971875,"end":781.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":781.15784375,"end":783.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":784.0434687500001,"end":786.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":786.5578437500001,"end":790.8272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":790.47284375,"end":790.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":790.84409375,"end":790.9115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":790.9284687500001,"end":792.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":793.67909375,"end":796.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":796.48034375,"end":803.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.7534687500001,"end":804.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":804.07409375,"end":806.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.2803437500002,"end":808.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":808.61346875,"end":809.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":809.59221875,"end":810.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":810.6553437500002,"end":816.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":817.43909375,"end":819.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":820.1897187500001,"end":821.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":821.1684687500001,"end":823.1765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":823.24409375,"end":826.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":826.2478437500001,"end":848.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":851.05409375,"end":854.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":854.7665937500001,"end":855.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":855.1884687500001,"end":856.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":856.3022187500001,"end":862.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":862.88346875,"end":863.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":863.1028437500001,"end":867.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":866.8997187500001,"end":868.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":868.4353437500001,"end":870.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":871.8272187500002,"end":877.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":882.4922187500001,"end":887.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":888.29721875,"end":890.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":891.80721875,"end":892.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":893.0053437500001,"end":905.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":904.78409375,"end":907.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":908.56409375,"end":909.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":909.15471875,"end":910.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":910.1672187500001,"end":910.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":910.23471875,"end":910.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":910.25159375,"end":910.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":910.26846875,"end":910.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":911.53409375,"end":913.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":914.4365937500002,"end":919.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":918.95909375,"end":923.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":927.5147187500002,"end":931.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":932.35784375,"end":933.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":933.8428437500002,"end":935.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":936.6440937500001,"end":938.3484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":938.4328437500001,"end":941.4365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":941.63909375,"end":954.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":953.6709687500002,"end":956.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":959.1553437500002,"end":964.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":963.3403437500001,"end":964.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":965.68596875,"end":967.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":968.65596875,"end":981.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":980.2490937500002,"end":993.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":991.70721875,"end":992.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":992.9053437500002,"end":995.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":994.62659375,"end":997.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":996.3984687500001,"end":999.0984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":999.0984687500002,"end":999.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":999.16596875,"end":999.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":999.97596875,"end":1036.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1014.9609687500001,"end":1015.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1015.9734687500002,"end":1016.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1036.7972187500002,"end":1043.9690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1037.8097187500002,"end":1037.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1037.82659375,"end":1037.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1037.99534375,"end":1038.1978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1038.1978437500002,"end":1041.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1042.36596875,"end":1043.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1043.9690937500002,"end":1044.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1044.03659375,"end":1064.5228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1059.10596875,"end":1060.0003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1066.1934687500002,"end":1066.5984687500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.32,"end":29.945,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩有請司法院副秘書長 法務部政務次長請王副秘 徐政次好 委員長委員長來 兩位找時間的關係 直接切入正題那個PPT對不起 先等一下好 兩位好 時間的關係 不一問候"},{"start":32.813,"end":55.761,"text":"法務部在今年的業務報告說要落實武打七安強化打擊詐欺這些業務報告大概都是寫作文每一次的業務報告抄來抄去都是延續過去的作為我們來看一下過去的作為到底是如何我們的政府說要打詐"},{"start":60.307,"end":84.99,"text":"有打詐國家隊就丟臉丟到國際社會上太子集團跑來台灣設詐欺洗錢總部就在我們的101裡我們的打詐國家隊渾然不覺 麻木不仁美國人辦案 辦到台灣來了才驚醒"},{"start":86.392,"end":110.997,"text":"原來這個跨國的詐欺洗錢集團已經在我們的101入住啦過去這段時間我相信社會大眾對於這件事情的憤怒以及對於我們的法務部門檢調部門的無能的這些聲音 次長有沒有聽到"},{"start":114.011,"end":131.677,"text":"報告委員 我們有在檢討 那禮拜一沒關係 你們繼續檢討嘛國安一律 打造國家會對 各說各話各說各話要 各說各話到什麼時候現在開始進行國家足球隊的比賽什麼時候會有結論"},{"start":133.516,"end":147.946,"text":"出了事嘛發現我們的打造國家隊是一場笑話麻木不仁趕快裝忙開會檢討檢討完了以後繼續觀樣文章各說各話需要多少的時間來請法務部"},{"start":151.482,"end":172.662,"text":"報告委員我想我們需要多少時間針對問題回答我今天問題很多啦我也不要耽誤其他委員的時間我們週一已經開完那個跨部會的會議了而且各部會呢針對我們目前你們跨部會會議有會議記錄嗎有那會議記錄會後給我可以嗎可以下班以前送來可以嗎不行"},{"start":173.483,"end":190.177,"text":"現在還在整理好沒關係需要多久給我一個時間一個禮拜一個禮拜好一個禮拜以後給我索隆派說啊台北101是國家門面啊不能讓他變成詐騙啊贊不贊成贊成這個案子是台北101成為詐欺營運中心的首案嗎是第一個案子嗎"},{"start":194.992,"end":215.954,"text":"這個我要查一下 還要查喔這麼嚴重欸 行政院院長都講話了欸101是國家門面 不能成為詐騙的中心欸你們不是打詐國家隊 所以我才問你嘛101成為詐騙中心 太子集團是第一個案子嗎是嗎 知不知道"},{"start":217.253,"end":246.027,"text":"後面法務部的官員有沒有任何人知道是第一個案子嗎這個我們必須要了解一下不能必須要了解一下嘛對啊所以我就說你們麻木部門你知道嗎你們早就知道了或者我應該說你們早就應該要知道了為什麼我說你們早就知道了你們早就應該要知道了因為這件事情我在這邊質詢過來看一下中文字啊金融詐騙重犯中文字啊"},{"start":247.811,"end":274.779,"text":"設了好幾間公司在101啊當初啊他要跑的時候啊你們在追他啊司機從豪宅離開直奔101大樓他為什麼直奔101大樓他開的公司全部都在101裡啊這個你們不知道啊 這你們不知道中文字欸 金融重範欸還是因為他八股很強"},{"start":276.297,"end":294.634,"text":"早就錄住101了啦中文字就是一個最有名的案子阿包委員齁 個案細節的部分陳辦的檢察官會比較清楚我們個案不會去干預說那這樣子的話現在左榮泰是不是在干預個案"},{"start":296.666,"end":321.592,"text":"101不能成為詐騙中心不是卓榮泰講的嗎這跟個案無關沒有這樣子的個案卓榮泰會講這樣的話這是一個國家政策的問題當然是一個國家政策的問題嘛但是國家的政策有沒有落實是大家關心的嘛現在我為什麼提出質詢卓榮泰講這樣的話好像赫然發現太子集團是第一案"},{"start":322.412,"end":351.156,"text":"所以呢 行政院院長特別重視不能成為詐騙中心全體國人都支持嘛連院長都講話了嘛 但我在講的是什麼我在講的是卓榮泰是不知不覺嗎今天才發現嗎 早就該發現啊為什麼早就該發現 中文字的案子就有名的啊很厲害啊 非常厲害啊他涉及到犯罪行為還有民進黨的立委要幫他修法脫罪"},{"start":355.094,"end":357.735,"text":"他的詐騙營運總部就設在101啊然後呢 他詐騙營運總部設在101的我提出告發了以後你們才動起來啊我2023年2月的時候就去告發啦結果你們2025年4月才起訴我覺得非常驚訝因為告發的時候所有的市政都告訴你們啊偵辦了兩年多欸"},{"start":386.319,"end":397.387,"text":"偵辦了兩年多終於起訴了我上一次問另外一位市長黃某信他說他會去了解為什麼要花兩年多的時間請問了解完了嗎請問了解完了嗎他就在那個備詢台上答應我他要回去了解"},{"start":406.994,"end":434.694,"text":"我事證整理得這麼清楚 他說要回去了解 搞了兩年多你知道為什麼搞了兩年多嗎因為相關的事證比較繁雜真的嗎 相關事證比較繁雜其他的早就判刑了 還相關事證比較繁雜講空話真的有去了解喔其他人都被判刑了 只放了一個中文字連高院法官都看不下去啊說這個首腦啊"},{"start":437.182,"end":463.882,"text":"我沒有辦法判因為檢察官沒有起訴法官喔 在判決書裡面寫這個詐騙的集團的首腦我沒有辦法判因為刑事訴訟啊他沒有被檢察官起訴我法官沒辦法判那代表什麼 代表這個案子不請早就查完了連法院端都審判了結果去告發"},{"start":465.714,"end":493.926,"text":"因為我看了以後我是瞠目結舌啊這個中文字啊真是神通廣大神通廣大下面的人都辦了結果首腦沒有辦首腦為什麼沒有辦 法官為什麼沒有判因為我們的檢察官沒起訴然後我去告發然後你現在跟我講說案件很龐雜要偵辦兩年多你站在那邊講空話"},{"start":497.915,"end":525.269,"text":"我有說錯嗎回去看一下2023年2月到你起訴為止請問那個卷證增加多少卷證就是檢察官的偵查作為嘛辦案指揮單嘛派了警察 派了調查員去幹了什麼事嘛卷宗裡面都要有啊我跟你保證啊2023年2月以後的那個卷證啊薄薄的一本"},{"start":526.417,"end":544.046,"text":"薄薄的一本讓你感覺不到它的存在 為什麼因為其他該有的爭吵作為早就做完了只是沒有起訴中文字我有說錯嗎我有說錯嗎你拿出事實 拿出證據來反駁我說 我說錯啊站在國會裡面講空話你知道為什麼拖兩年多才起訴嗎 次長你知不知道"},{"start":555.064,"end":579.547,"text":"這個要了解好啊 不用了解我直接跟你講因為人跑了啦因為人跑了啦中文字跑掉了啦逃亡了以後才起訴大家在問的是我們是在搞笑嗎是在搞笑嗎人跑了才起訴大家恍然大悟啊為什麼拖這麼久"},{"start":581.425,"end":597.16,"text":"快給他照啊 確定他跑了再來起訴啊這叫打炸國家隊啊 這叫丟人現眼丟人現眼跟立法院要這麼多預算 拿去幹什麼啦來 三立的 一模一樣 我也公開質詢過"},{"start":608.353,"end":626.338,"text":"詐騙洗錢的公司設在三立集團的裡面我上次問結果宣傳股份有限公司負責洗錢的這家公司現在辦解散了來我上次問黃某信他就說啊這個我們一定會追查來請問追查到哪裡追查到哪裡"},{"start":636.485,"end":664.593,"text":"有在追查嗎個案的那個北檢在追查中現在還在追查 沒關係沒關係我只要定期就會問一次你就慢慢跟大家講我們都還在追查我們打炸很有力啦但是打炸很有力要看顏色啊如果跟綠營關係好的就軟趴趴啦動都不動 跟你說還在偵查從我上次問到現在要偵查多久來 我們再繼續往下看"},{"start":665.646,"end":682.946,"text":"這是聯合報的社論炸團跟綠網軍二合一的魔性組合內容你們自己慢慢去拜讀這個是寫到報紙的社論 他講的是什麼事情他講的是有一個黃玉科技網軍集團裡面有個歐秉漢 氣泡檢討 人跑了"},{"start":686.598,"end":703.389,"text":"他做了什麼事情 做了趙正宇拿錢給他 要去黑誰 黑邱若驊的事情抹黑惡意汙止邱若驊與地方黑幫勾結邱委員是被害人 我不幫他發聲 邱委員自己去問但除了這個以外 發現這個詐騙集團這個詐騙集團原來還經營網軍業務李能謙 網軍投資前三立電視製作人"},{"start":715.117,"end":730.594,"text":"然後偽冒黃仁勳詐騙粉專然後結果他在搞的是什麼有7000個人頭帳戶在惡意醜化台灣民眾黨跟我黃國昌我看了這個新聞我是非常的詫異這個案子有在辦嗎還是簽結了這案子有在辦嗎"},{"start":736.704,"end":760.449,"text":"這案子有在辦嗎 因為很奇怪啊這個案子還是在偵查中還在偵查中嘛 好 繼續偵查 好好偵查我們拭目以待看你什麼時候會偵查出來主席不好意思 最後一分鐘就好了問一下司法院來 請司法院副秘書長上一次 針對有關於司法院施政計畫綱要我問你說 你們明年的跟今年的"},{"start":762.369,"end":783.516,"text":"你要回去比對嘛比對的比例有多少是複製貼上我請你回去比對你跟我說遵照辦理你們有遵照辦理嗎比例是多少委員我們是有比對114年跟115年結果重複的比例是多少"},{"start":784.665,"end":792.515,"text":"確實是有高於一半是那個只有高於一半嗎比例是多少因為你告訴我遵照辦理嘛是對 但是你們回給我的公文"},{"start":793.703,"end":815.874,"text":"根本沒有回答問題啊解釋一堆你解釋了一堆為什麼會一樣但是最關鍵的問題是我請你們回去比對你答應我要遵照辦理嗎那請問你們比對完重複的比例有多高只有八成喔沒有關係你們回去詳細比對的資料會後今天下班以前給我可以嗎"},{"start":817.486,"end":835.528,"text":"因為你上次答應我要做你沒有做啊我們有做啊那把東西給我可以嗎但是我們有跟委員講說那個為什麼就是因為沒有關係啊為什麼你們慢慢去解釋你們為什麼的公文我也看了啊你們為什麼也可以貼在司法院的網站昭告社會大眾"},{"start":836.49,"end":848.168,"text":"為什麼比例有這麼高但我care的事情是什麼你答應我的事情要做到你說你回去有比對那我要求很簡單履行上次的承諾把你比對的結果給我可以嗎"},{"start":851.109,"end":869.823,"text":"我又沒有解那個講就是說譬如說像國民法官有沒有對不起啊我請你把你比對的結果給我可以嗎因為這是你上次答應我的但你沒有做到這件事你回覆給我的解釋一堆為什麼重複這麼高委員我們有確實有比對那比對的結果給我可以嗎可以嗎上次你答應我了今天我請你把比對的結果給我有這麼困難嗎"},{"start":882.486,"end":906.896,"text":"主席不好意思 我在等他回答還是主席直接裁示請他把比對的結果給我他答應我的事情根本沒有給我啊說明一下好不好委員的那個裁示是要求我們比對那我們也比對了那我們比對之後也跟那個委員報告說這個比例 高比例的我們也說是有高比例的 是一樣但是你比對的結果給我有困難嗎我們除了數字 那是密切嗎"},{"start":911.547,"end":923.134,"text":"我請你比對的結果給我有困難嗎因為14年跟15年的這些施政計畫其實都是公開的對 但是你沒有回答我的問題我請你把比對的結果給我可以嗎還是召委你裁示一下我今天請他把比對的結果給我很過分嗎這是密切嗎這是國家機密嗎"},{"start":936.77,"end":956.097,"text":"這是不得公開的卷宗嗎我們也有跟委員報告說哪些事項是重複的然後哪些事項是新增的那也解釋 譬如說像國民法官他在每個階段雖然我們都寫說是國民法官的那個推動但是他每個階段有他實質做的不同我的問題還是一樣 比對的結果給我可以嗎我們除了數字之外我們那個比對的這些內容也都有跟委員報告了說明交給委員沒有"},{"start":965.748,"end":991.478,"text":"你給我的東西我現在貼在上面你不要透過這種用講的方式來混淆視聽讓大家覺得好像你們比對的結果有給我我再說一次你們比對的結果沒有給我請把比對的結果給我可以嗎我們依政府那個資訊公開法應該要揭露事情我們都揭露了就是說114年跟115年那個施政綱要這個內容是大家通都可以去看的"},{"start":992.398,"end":997.139,"text":"我現在請你把比對的結果給我啊這件事情召委才是啊 我們要這樣耗下去嗎好啦 我想啊 這個黃委員剛剛有提出的要求啦王富密他也很仔細的做一個說明啦可能就是你不滿意啦 好不好那再看看 如果沒有涉及到機密的話那如果該"},{"start":1016.664,"end":1035.962,"text":"沒有沒有 這個應該沒有涉及到機密那問題就是說司法院這個地方好像你聽起來王文明你認為你們也已經盡到說明還有回答的這樣的一個義務那黃委員認為還有所不足我們接下來是不是先請陳培宇委員來做詢答以後這個問題我再來瞭解看看 好不好"},{"start":1036.857,"end":1063.942,"text":"我相信你啦我來了解一下你要當核四老我相信你啦你們兩邊你提出的要求不是啦你是法律人我講得很清楚啦你一定聽得懂啦我當然聽得懂但是王富密代表司法院在這個地方的詢答裡面似乎也講得說司法院也盡到這樣的一個比對的義務我再來看看原先黃委員的要求是什麼啦你就看他公文嘛好啦這樣先讓陳培宇委員來做詢答好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165232","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165232","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3508be283be8e724a57c737e12387eef84cf7b889f21dc7b7f1956145e7c495575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:15:48 - 09:18:07","影片長度":"00:02:19","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:15:48+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:18:07+08:00","duration":139,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.84346875,"end":39.602843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.80534375,"end":55.634093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.853468750000005,"end":96.25221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.70784375000001,"end":123.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.69096875000001,"end":136.83659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.30471875,"end":139.97534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.257,"end":39.326,"text":"各位委員還有政府部門的代表先進大家好我是立法委員林月琴今天我在此提出少年事件處理法第83條之一條修正草案那懇請各位支持本提案的原由是基於兒童權利公約跟少年事件處理法第一條保障少年健全成長的立法精神跟意志提出對案版本的調整跟修正"},{"start":40.046,"end":66.624,"text":"因此在83條之1的修法方向上我參考第10條一般信義監書第67點次那將少年前岸的圖銷的排除適用限縮在故意觸犯刑法法律而受到5年以上有期徒刑宣告的嚴重觸法而少並且針對前岸涉及不同形態處於的少年設計層級化的一個圖銷年限"},{"start":69.105,"end":83.655,"text":"藉此回應CRC也就是兒權公約意見書中有關的一個必要性的建議此外我也誠摯的期盼各位關心司法少年議題的委員同仁共同關注少年輔導跟矯正處於資源匱乏的問題"},{"start":87.237,"end":108.688,"text":"舉凡本次修法保護處分轉換機制的一個調整我相當肯定司法院勇於提出利益良善且符合主義多元化的一個精神但在實務上司法轉向的一個安置輔導的案件量持續探低問題就是出在缺乏足夠的支持資源跟專業人員的挹注導致民間團體接手的時候"},{"start":113.03,"end":136.594,"text":"那他們事實上是沒有辦法來做承擔那這樣的問題除了依賴修法更需要各界的關注跟跨部會的資源整合跟協調終上懇請各位能夠共同審視此一攸關少年輔導處遇的問題並懇請支持我的修正草案給犯錯的孩子一條自新的道路謝謝大家 謝謝好 謝謝林玥"}]}},{"id":"165231","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165231","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe36c3c8d3a444d482657c737e12387eef84cf7b889f21dc7b70385acd6577be4b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"09:11:59 - 09:15:37","影片長度":"00:03:38","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:11:59+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:15:37+08:00","duration":218,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.329093750000002,"end":105.11159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.46596875,"end":112.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.88659375,"end":138.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.55784375000002,"end":215.28846875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.863,"end":27.232,"text":"首先非常感謝我們睿智的莊昭偉今天排審少年事件處理法的草案我們知道國家的未來在少年但是我們的孩子我們的少年有時候卻是社會當中最脆弱最需要幫助的一個群體"},{"start":28.092,"end":42.962,"text":"那大家都知道台灣的少年司法有一個非常崇高的目標就是要健全少年的成長那麼在這個過程當中少年事件輔佐人基本上就是少年的引路人守護者"},{"start":43.402,"end":72.688,"text":"那么他们不只是保护程序上的权利更是要协助更需要是协助法院那么让孩子能够安心的勇敢在法院当中表达自己帮助他们重新站起来但是我们看看现代的法规在少年事件处理法第31条规定只有当孩子犯了罪清本行三年以上的重罪的时候法院才必须要强制指定辅佐人"},{"start":73.408,"end":100.531,"text":"那這樣的規定足夠嗎我想當然是不夠的大部分最需要幫助的少年他們的案子或許沒有那麼重但是他們面對司法程序的恐懼無助和壓力是一點都沒有少如果我們只看罪的輕重那麼那些因為家庭貧困因為身心障礙因為身份的隔閡而本來就處於程序弱勢的孩子們"},{"start":100.991,"end":112.234,"text":"他們在法庭上將會是孤單的無助的沉默的那麼這絕對是違背了我們憲法當中對於少年應該予以特別保護以及輔助的承諾"},{"start":113.939,"end":137.077,"text":"那麼相對的對於成年人在刑事訴訟法裡面其實已經將強制辯護的範圍擴大到包含身心障礙者原住民和經濟弱勢那麼如果成年人在法庭上面都能獲得這樣的保障那我們的少年這些心智和資源都不夠成熟的孩子難道不應該獲得更高的保護標準嗎"},{"start":138.658,"end":143.243,"text":"那麼讓少年在程序保障上面如果處於比成年人更低的地位我想這是非常不妥的所以身為立法者我們有責任要去確保若是少年能夠獲得適當的法律協助避免因為資源的不足或是能力受限而影響到訴訟防禦權落實憲法對少年特別保護的意旨"},{"start":163.482,"end":168.145,"text":"所以在此我提案少事法第31條的修正就是希望能夠給予每個孩子實質的平等為孩子們搭起一座司法的保護網那麼將身心障礙的少年原住民少年還有經濟弱勢的少年等等那麼能夠納入強制輔佐的範圍"},{"start":183.456,"end":199.055,"text":"希望能够透过辅佐人专业而且及时的介入我们能够有效的避免这些弱势少年那么因为无知或是无诛而受到二次的伤害让整个少年事件的处理程序能够真正做到"},{"start":199.475,"end":215.017,"text":"完善周延充滿希望所以在此也請大家可以共同支持邵氏法第31條修正草案讓我們一起為這些需要光亮的孩子點燃一炷希望的燭火謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"165243","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165243","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3557828cad76de0ff57c737e12387eef84cf7b889f21dc7b704312e9a342f626f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"09:37:06 - 09:50:53","影片長度":"00:13:47","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:37:06+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:50:53+08:00","duration":827,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0772187500000001,"end":3.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.0553437500000005,"end":9.430343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.88596875,"end":11.910968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.29909375,"end":13.919093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.24346875,"end":131.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.95221875,"end":18.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.90909375,"end":146.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.69159375,"end":150.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.27346875,"end":149.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.88909375,"end":218.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.75221875000003,"end":224.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.04221875000002,"end":241.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.68096875,"end":263.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.52596875,"end":261.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.73659375,"end":334.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.20659375,"end":339.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.18471875,"end":361.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.91534375000003,"end":364.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.29471875,"end":364.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.31159375000004,"end":375.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.21846875,"end":366.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.88784375,"end":388.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.76409375000003,"end":385.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.59034375000005,"end":408.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.55784375,"end":408.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.79409375,"end":410.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.50659375000004,"end":422.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.30659375000005,"end":437.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.47721875,"end":439.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.09721875,"end":442.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.52284375000005,"end":447.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.31971875000005,"end":447.74159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.20971875000004,"end":473.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.52471875000003,"end":458.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.65971875,"end":458.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.96346875,"end":459.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.77971875000003,"end":478.40346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.77471875000003,"end":496.15596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.56534375,"end":509.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.35221875,"end":535.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.2678437500001,"end":608.4422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.4128437500001,"end":650.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":608.88096875,"end":609.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.8615937500001,"end":625.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.91221875,"end":669.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.8840937500001,"end":674.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.0984687499999,"end":676.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.98846875,"end":685.2234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.1472187500001,"end":726.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.3815937500001,"end":750.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":752.60534375,"end":752.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":753.0947187500001,"end":799.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":798.35346875,"end":806.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":806.60534375,"end":825.8090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":827.0578437500001,"end":828.0872187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.627,"end":2.288,"text":"請王副秘書長"},{"start":17.544,"end":30.562,"text":"等一下 她電腦好 早 她電腦在更新不過沒關係 我就先講我們目前看到邵氏法要修法嘛所以我們今天才會有這個討論第一個其實我想問的是關於我們如何界定所謂暴險少年何謂處罰少年"},{"start":32.404,"end":55.012,"text":"我覺得這個事情應該也是所有現在要修法大人們最頭痛的事情喔但是可能大家都先關注到突銷的時間但是我想要從最本質的問題開始我們如何界定一個孩子他現在狀況是需要政府單位介入來協助所謂政府單位指的是教育端、社政端到最後才會是司法端"},{"start":55.612,"end":83.388,"text":"那我們現在看到現行法的部分我們有關於當孩子們觸犯刑法的時候相關行為這個是所謂觸法少年那底下框列的在現行法裡面這些三個要點沒有正當理由帶著危險機械或者是用毒品或者是有預備犯罪這個比較像是曝險少年對不對這個當時我們在前一次修法的時候我們把這個框架限縮了那前一個版本就舊法的部分我紅色的部分"},{"start":83.928,"end":101.094,"text":"那個部分我們比較把它定義為是一種身份犯可能會給孩子貼標籤的問題也就是說在舊法跟現行法我們確實做了一些比較進步的改法我們不要給孩子貼標籤我們不要因為孩子有些身份好像就覺得他們是有可能是觸犯司法的"},{"start":101.514,"end":116.863,"text":"可是我想要拜託司法院去想另外一個事情當現在的社會生活跟社區生活的樣態越來越複雜的時候這樣現在現行版本的寫法真的可以真的匡列到所謂更多需要協助的少年嗎"},{"start":117.763,"end":145.259,"text":"會不會其實範圍有不夠廣想得不夠多但我的意思是並沒有要給孩子貼標籤而是我們司法院在這件事情上因為這次修法你們其實沒有提出這個部分但我認為這個部分是應該我們現在要來想的尤其是現在很多委員都一起關心的很多詐團很多黑道把少年當成工具人這件事情確實相關的樣態是比我們過去在憲刑法在修憲刑法的時候來得更複雜你們怎麼看"},{"start":146.982,"end":148.788,"text":"我原這個部分我請那個邵家廳長好沒問題"},{"start":152.592,"end":178.326,"text":"謝謝委員垂詢我先報告委員剛剛說明的暴險少年的一個範圍那隨著時代有沒有思考去調整那目前就施用這個第三第四級毒品那麼以及迷幻藥品的部分那目前我們食物在操作跟這個延伤法案裡面應該要增加這個持有"},{"start":180.487,"end":200.569,"text":"那持有因為持有超過5公克就是有刑法法律那沒有超過5公克他吸食後一倍轉讓他都是屬於目前不顯的一部分這個急需要用需要吸就少年在邊緣應該去立即所以這個不顯隨著時代去思考不過剛剛委員講到這個"},{"start":203.472,"end":217.561,"text":"我們的少年被吸收到詐團去那到了詐團去以後他去做收款或各項的行為這個已經觸犯刑法法律那這個已經直接就適用少年實驗處理法的保護事件"},{"start":217.841,"end":233.754,"text":"沒有問題這個我都清楚我要講的是如同你剛剛說的不管是持有的部分或者是更多的樣態我都認為因為我們在少事法裡面有分處罰少年跟曝險少年那曝險少年我們要用的是少年保護事件那我的意思是說站在積極"},{"start":234.935,"end":251.533,"text":"更進一步的保護少年的情況下我們要不要去想關於這個身份認定的部分關於這個範圍的部分我認為可以有更多討論不要只有談到突囂那我就先提出問題因為我也沒有答案說實話但我們從很多社政端跟教育端所看到的"},{"start":251.852,"end":279.11,"text":"孩子們在面臨的困境其實非常非常多我們等一下一一來談但是我還是想要先提出對於第三條的部分我認為我們有必要重新來討論好不好好來下一個42條的部分喔要談到安置機構其實我之前也提過最近這兩年安置機構普遍不願意收容司法少年當然是因為司法少年的狀況比較複雜那安置機構目前在處理從射震端來的孩子的問題"},{"start":279.87,"end":307.746,"text":"也很複雜那導致安置機構他們就覺得反正我就不要收而且錢也沒有比較多可是要處理的事情也很多然後我的人力也不見得充分結果我們很多孩子就直接被送到繳校去這個當時的資料你們自己也是認同說確實在第一線的判決有這個傾向可是我們看見第一個是我覺得很令我們擔心我們辦了非常多次考察我們看到其實繳校收容孩子的人數也不斷暴增包含"},{"start":308.306,"end":332.252,"text":"少關所 其實也是一樣 可是回到安置機構有沒有能力 有沒有人力 有沒有資源去收容司法少年 我認為這個問題必須要司法院跟衛福部一起來承擔 並且討論 考慮如何積極協助司法少年可以好好的進入安置機構 而安置機構有足夠的人 足夠的錢 足夠的空間協助這些司法少年 來 請你們簡單回應一下"},{"start":334.284,"end":361.145,"text":"那個謝謝委員提出的問題齁其實這個問題也是一直我們那個司法單位就是所關心的那立場完全跟那個委員一致齁因為畢竟法院端是司法單位我們不是設政單位那那個安置機構那個主管機關他是屬於設政這一端的所以法院呢他也覺得孩子有這個需求性想把他那個提那個就是把他那個裁定那個安置但是我們真的很困難去找到那個安置機構"},{"start":362.026,"end":387.851,"text":"目前只有11間是不是我們來看一下法院安置少年的需求可是沒有辦法實際媒合到安置機構我把相關數字統計出來在111年有8人12年17人113年23人我想司法院這邊看得很清楚其實人數是逐漸上升也就是沒有辦法如願放到安置機構的司法少年其實人是越來越多而他回過頭來會壓到矯正學校所以我認為這個問題"},{"start":389.671,"end":407.48,"text":"既然少事法這一次要修了然後我們那個社安網也要展開新的階段我真的認為司法院要把這個問題積極的跟衛福部來討論跨部會溝通我們每一方面跨部會都接起來才可以把這些司法少年都接起來當然我們今天不會有答案可是我要再次把這個問題拋出來好嗎是好我們來看下一題"},{"start":412.9,"end":442.34,"text":"76年的时候呢相关立法是说关于今天要谈到这个图销的部分这个立法的流程我就写在这边不过我想你们两位都非常清楚我就不再赘述可是我们现在看到行政院跟司法院的提案版本是说三年内未在因故意触犯刑法法律而受保护处分或行之宣告者视为未曾受各该宣告你们真的认为这个修法版本有机会提升避免少年被帮派跟诈团利用吗"},{"start":443.701,"end":468.854,"text":"我對這件事情是有一些懷疑的但我想先聽聽看你們的看法謝謝委員的推詢這一個問題確實是過去我們一律沒有條件都把少年處罰的行為執行完畢兩年或三年就突銷了但近年來各類幫派或者詐團或者是各類犯罪把這些國中生高中生大量吸收"},{"start":469.454,"end":494.611,"text":"那麼其中一個最大家都了解的就是以少年接受輔導後感化教育出來紀錄都突銷讓這些少年跟家長比較就會無所謂所以基於這樣參佐世界各國就一定的條件沒有突銷的部分來加以這個試著改變我國的少年司法"},{"start":495.352,"end":504.525,"text":"你們這個在實務上有跟任何專家學者討論過或者是跟第一線的社工或在協助司法少年多年經驗的人討論過嗎這個三年內這個數字是你們怎麼想出來怎麼討論出來的我說明一下"},{"start":511.234,"end":539.238,"text":"這在司法院形成這樣的一個共識是有召開非常多的專家諮詢會議以及把國外的這個相關設有條件不塗銷的這些立法例年限都有收集那收集的結果因為我國原來採的是第一個立即塗銷就是說少年不負審理不保存確定立即塗銷第二個就是非常輕微的"},{"start":540.158,"end":564.369,"text":"這個所謂的教家養人家管教等這種不務審理的兩年突銷那一般的刑事處分或保護處分都三年突銷這是我國已經實施快20年了那麼經過專家學者在我們諮詢會議裡面提供的應該除了CRC兒童權利公會最嚴重之罪要付條件但因應我國現在"},{"start":565.529,"end":588.99,"text":"因為大量的幫派化吸收少年是不是可以在某個限度內但是為什麼會訂三年是這樣各國立法有兩年的那麼也有五年的但是也有授權兩年內授權法官去裁量的那麼也有沒訂期限只要是某個條件的罪都不徒消有這五大類我們發現國內"},{"start":592.733,"end":605.836,"text":"實證研究還沒有但是收集到實務的資料最多就是國中生是14歲、15歲那加3年就18歲這個最容易被吸收犯罪期就16、17、18這種高中職的中齡生16、17、18喔 對廠長 我覺得啦這個我們可以再討論因為為什麼我要特別問這個問題"},{"start":614.258,"end":630.514,"text":"我個人當然有我個人的見解不過我們之後逐條的時候再來討論不過這一次有非常多不管是朝野委員提案的版本其實大家對於這個年限或者是要再附加什麼條件其實大家見解非常的不同而且我們還要考慮到社會的人民對這件事情的觀感"},{"start":631.295,"end":648.974,"text":"大家對於司法少年到底是所謂的生物痛覺還是真的可以認知到孩子們在過去的生命成長經驗遇到了一些困境所以他走上歧路我認為這都還需要社會溝通所以我剛留些時間給您說明但我想今天時間有限我們就之後主條再來討論最後一個問題抱歉主席再幾分鐘就好"},{"start":651.997,"end":668.686,"text":"其實孩子講到這麼多其實在相關的少年更生保護協會他們就有一個演講裡面提到我今天談的很多事情其實過去我也都跟司法系統討論過孩子們最大的困境常常是出了矯正機構停止感化教育之後他回到原生家庭去"},{"start":669.987,"end":684.889,"text":"最慘的狀況就是壞掉的小孩壞掉的大人繼續教已經壞過一次的小孩對嗎 我相信你們都非常的清楚或者是我們很多社工師 心理師好不容易接住小孩可是他回到原生家庭之後"},{"start":687.148,"end":713.892,"text":"你們要把我可以繼續嗎好他回到原生家庭之後家庭已經壞掉了所以這個孩子在原生家庭沒有辦法被接住的情況下他可能又走回頭路所以我們剛才會談到突銷這件事情所以我認為我知道司法院的系統一直有在協助相關的孩子的家長做家庭教育也好親子教育也好但是我認為這件事情不該只有落在你們身上拜託你們積極去找教育部溝通找衛福部溝通"},{"start":714.332,"end":734.887,"text":"我們如何把社政教育端社政端教育端司法端結合起來協助家長的家庭教育也好親子教育也好讓這些曾經壞掉的孩子他唯一一個可以安全去的地方就是他的家而這個家不要讓他繼續破碎我認為這件事情我們在教育部已經談了很久"},{"start":735.507,"end":750.127,"text":"那教育部相關預算其實也不夠可是我非常感謝司法院第一線的同仁我們去考察的時候看到你們都有在做但是我認為這件事情我們要把教育現場的人拉進來把家長拉進來把教育部拉進來我可不可以聽一下你們的看法"},{"start":753.52,"end":779.719,"text":"謝謝委員推詢謝謝這部分確實是非常重大的議題為什麼一個少年能夠各類輔導集中其中最重要的是家庭功能的提升所以家庭功能的提升謝謝委員剛剛也觀察到我們各個少年法庭調查保護室都在進行這樣的一個所謂親子教育的功能的恢復那我們現在因為有二級聯繫會議就是每一個法院"},{"start":780.399,"end":798.199,"text":"跟縣市政府的一個少年資源合作目前已經都提出了所謂的各縣市的教育局所屬的家庭教育中心依照這樣的一個法律規定他們裡面也有親子教育的一個推動跟預算所以我們正要努力去結合"},{"start":799.639,"end":825.528,"text":"也就是說過往可能在這一段跟家庭教育中心的連結比較弱拜託後續政要的部分我們如何拜託家庭教育中心積極針對這些司法少年個案家庭做更多協助然後把設政系統也導入不要讓第一線司法同仁都已經在處理司法案件都已經快要崩潰了還要花很多時間回過頭做家庭教育當然我還是要再次感謝我們去考察的時候看到同仁們在第一線的付出好嗎好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165242","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165242","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3742c9c7aa831adb48abc180ec3481d024cf7b889f21dc7b7a28f55c24be561275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:36:49 - 09:49:16","影片長度":"00:12:27","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:36:49+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:49:16+08:00","duration":747,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.3890937500000002,"end":5.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.19034375,"end":6.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.68346875,"end":10.054718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.695968750000002,"end":32.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.54471875,"end":43.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.70784375,"end":44.783468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.64846875,"end":51.516593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.03659375,"end":45.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.976593750000006,"end":55.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.39784375,"end":59.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.32596875,"end":79.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.23784375000001,"end":98.63159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.70596875000001,"end":82.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.63159375000001,"end":99.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.13784375,"end":120.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.70409375000001,"end":121.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.77159375000001,"end":123.67409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.80909375,"end":130.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.49159375000002,"end":142.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.79409375,"end":139.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.05534375000002,"end":147.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.37909375,"end":167.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.06846875000002,"end":166.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.36346875,"end":171.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.88596875000002,"end":230.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.39159375000003,"end":239.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.63909375000003,"end":248.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.48159375,"end":253.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.44721875000002,"end":256.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.61971875,"end":258.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.30721875,"end":315.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.86346875000004,"end":341.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.48096875000005,"end":333.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.82159375000003,"end":361.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.35284375000003,"end":343.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.29534375000003,"end":373.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.40721875,"end":377.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.68096875000003,"end":381.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.30471875,"end":398.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.18409375000005,"end":402.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.76971875000004,"end":441.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.97471875,"end":444.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.60721875,"end":460.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.78596875000005,"end":474.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.20221875000004,"end":471.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.48846875000004,"end":512.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.13221875,"end":524.5734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.21909375,"end":546.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.9922187500001,"end":579.7547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.68346875,"end":550.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.3159687500001,"end":553.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.3447187500001,"end":557.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.85909375,"end":560.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.1540937500001,"end":562.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.05846875,"end":581.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.9440937500001,"end":586.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.82971875,"end":608.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.01409375,"end":595.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.90596875,"end":616.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.9097187500001,"end":614.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.76596875,"end":618.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.21284375,"end":622.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.0772187499999,"end":623.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.8872187500001,"end":638.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.5747187500001,"end":625.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.31096875,"end":641.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.86346875,"end":645.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.7022187499999,"end":649.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.0603437500001,"end":655.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.92034375,"end":654.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.47721875,"end":655.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.3334687500001,"end":675.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.5347187500001,"end":666.3403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.7734687500001,"end":675.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.97596875,"end":676.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.0265937500001,"end":691.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.0772187500002,"end":676.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":691.6697187500001,"end":693.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.07846875,"end":698.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.2847187500001,"end":703.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.4440937500001,"end":710.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.3334687500001,"end":715.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.2947187500001,"end":715.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.93596875,"end":716.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.1172187500001,"end":718.6359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.44596875,"end":720.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.30659375,"end":721.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.25159375,"end":721.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.67346875,"end":721.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.9265937499999,"end":724.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.4028437500001,"end":726.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.44909375,"end":729.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.4697187500001,"end":729.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.6384687500001,"end":732.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":732.10221875,"end":732.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.3172187499999,"end":746.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.6697187500001,"end":746.31096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.693,"end":32.711,"text":"谢谢赵卫我们是不是请郑次长请郑次长委员长次长早我想运动部宣布要来全面推动这个体改2.0这个三支箭将透过这个落实辅导跟监理分工还有改革这个运动员委员会还有财务全面查核要来增加这个协会的一个效率我不知道体改2.0到底会不会成功但是你是不是先请问一下体改1.0为什么会失败"},{"start":33.615,"end":53.208,"text":"報告委員 我想外界大概就是針對我們過去在輔導面跟監理面因為都混在經濟組所以你們有做過檢討就對了對 那第二個是財務的部分我們沒有真正去就是過去比較尊重協會所以造成現在你們有第三方就是有關於會計師會從外部會計師會進來"},{"start":55.469,"end":79.502,"text":"不只是会计师进来还有我们希望还有其他的作为那我们就一一来检核一下好了我们先从第一支键开始好了辅导跟这个部分我先要请问一下审计部在公布了这个有关于我们足协讲白话的足协的报告体育署补助足协参加国际赛事不管是在机票款不管在转播价格在113年再度出现巨儿操之的一个状况"},{"start":80.422,"end":98.28,"text":"次長你看過這個報告嗎而且他特別提到的有五項的這個球賽裡面呢都比預計超出非常的多超支比例達140%跟200%而且他直接直屬這個體育署並沒有落實經費這個編列跟合理性次長有看過這個部分嗎"},{"start":99.261,"end":123.346,"text":"但是呢我必须要说令人比较困惑的是你这个最新的运告这个运动部最新的公告就是113年特定体育署访评的结果足协的五项的指标你竟然是全部通过你们现在是要告诉我们是说审计部是审核不公还是你们这个体育署当初的体育署你们的审核都是在过水的为什么造成这么大的一个落差"},{"start":123.866,"end":147.513,"text":"包委員我想在問題大概出兩個層面第一個審計部當然他有提出這樣子一個覺得足協這個經費過高但是呢目前我們知道在合法性方面並沒有違反法律第二個他的考核的部分反平我們的其實沒有事實上我們必須要嚴重的面對這個真實的問題協會還有包括體育署"},{"start":148.473,"end":171.104,"text":"在核爆的部分在审核的部分从过去到现在就是常常有放水的一个状况这个是我们要直接面对的一个问题而且当你问到的时候呢你还特别告诉我们没有特别的意见都已经有这么多的疏失了你们最后的综合的访问意见竟然是没有特别的一个意见包委员这个转播经费虽然他有超支但是超支的部分是他自愁"},{"start":171.96,"end":200.715,"text":"没有问题啊但是出了这个部分里面省级部讲了这么多的状况然后你们给一个结论竟然说没有特别的意见我今天就要特别直指我们一块让你合并来说有关于第二之间有关运动员的委员会部分刚外面你委员特别提到了当然你有很多你自己的想法但是呢我们都是认为次上也都认为运动员委员会的这个选举的制度是否有没有办法改变这个选手跟学这个协会之间的关系其实呢利益良善但是"},{"start":201.195,"end":230.044,"text":"你知道有很多的选手反应吗很多人就开始说你即使选上了对于决策的影响力到底有多少是否呢你表达意见协会是不是一定造作而且呢运动员代表发言会不会被缺货算账没有缺少者保护你怎么样面对这个所谓排挤的风险还有呢运动员委员会他缺乏法定独立性跟经费你倒是会不会变成一个附属的一个形式性的咨询会不会有这些问题如果这些问题持续存在的话这怎么算是第二世界"},{"start":230.444,"end":251.599,"text":"包委員您的這個部分我們會請經濟師待會去把它去做一個後續的研議的時候把它列入參考但是包委員我們運動委員會這樣子的一個選舉的一個代表的這種制度重新改善就我剛有回答萬美玲委員講一樣我們是希望選手最在意的選訓這件事情我們能夠讓他"},{"start":252.52,"end":278.164,"text":"一样啊选手选选训的问题你谁会是不是会照做啊那就是因为希望经过运动员会先看过这个部分嘛你到底他们还是一样啊你所有的程序都在啊但是到底会不会所以到底运动员委员会是跟运动员工会你们彼此间是一个互补的关系还是排斥的关系这个目前为止都请次长你放在心上因为这次反映出运动员的心声你刚刚说选训制度运动员就是很担心即使提出了意见"},{"start":278.704,"end":294.865,"text":"协会如果不承受的话其实讲的也是白发反而让他们变成秋后算账所以这个部分里面我们提出来继续我们来看一下财务的全面的查核这个真的是一个最大的问题第一个我们必须要说这个问题到底有没有改善这是审计部所提出来的"},{"start":295.245,"end":315.391,"text":"选手必须先带电款项这边我们提出来了还有呢经费的核销真的是作业非常的冗长而且很重要的去为及时拨付选手这个各项款项给选手这是大家非常关心这是以前发生的你现在有的部分里面你这些大家所担心的这些问题你到底提出什么样的一个改善"},{"start":315.911,"end":340.513,"text":"報告委員我想這部分我們從三個層面第一個我們以前沒有那麼密集的查核我們現在在查核部分會加強第二個我們在整個和解的作業方面我們會去做簡化包括國訓中心目前在研議是不是讓學友在國外的時候就可以進行線上的一個核銷第三個我們在整個的和解的部分我們希望撥款的部分能夠儘早因為說實在很多協會就是因為"},{"start":340.913,"end":361.634,"text":"这都是长期存在的问题的你们要立即选手不合适然后呢你们拖欠选手补助你们在协会的漏息从过去到现在我们不但就说你就是要财务要透明这就是你2.0很重要的一个部分嘛而且本来就是要直接播誉你为什么要搞那么多的复杂你完全违法诶这边就已经讲得很清楚了诶"},{"start":361.834,"end":377.474,"text":"那这个部分当然每个协会状况不一样啦但是在财务状况比较差或是理事长的部分财力电钱的财力能力比较差的情况之下的确会发生这种情况但也不是全部啦所以说这个就是选手给我们反映这个一定要彻底的来去做一个执行了"},{"start":377.674,"end":402.539,"text":"我們在主計這部分核銷簡化以及撥款這部分我們會進還有我剛說查核的部分雖然你們今天信誓旦旦告訴我們你們都有找外部的會計師但對不起喔會計師通常只是簽資產負債就好這個所謂拿出來的發票跟你這邊可以核對就好至於裡面的內涵是怎麼樣有些時候會計師也都不太去管的啦這也是一個問題啦有在內部原因要去教這些會計師在哪些的層面是我們要去查核的"},{"start":402.819,"end":430.194,"text":"那你要不要交会计之前先朝下你们这个部分虽然上次国讯中心我们上去访问的也谢谢国讯中心给我们非常非常非常清楚的一些的指点我们非常感谢但是我还是要讲嘛你根据审计部的这个部分你看一下你本来核定消费器材服装费等等之类你提报50人每个人是预估是1万块但是呢你这个减核的时候呢包括尼巴嫩的这个部分明明签售的人数只有34人"},{"start":431.295,"end":460.331,"text":"然后呢你们给人家要求是50人签收单也没有详细的用品项量跟这个数量然后你还让他过这种事情非常的多啊这种事情非常的多啊对啊你看你每次都是给人家说准与和解完全通过就完全也不演绎里面的细项是什么你们也完全没有特别再去讲这个部分啊这是长期以来的问题啊这是怎么讲你们讲那么多什么会计师等等之类这就是活生生的例子次长这要怎么办"},{"start":460.831,"end":473.721,"text":"報告委員我想這部分也當然牽涉到我們的業務單位我們國訓中心的承辦人也說實在他們也很辛苦每一張單據都在查核但的確有這樣的漏洞那國訓這邊也看到這個缺點有在做改善"},{"start":474.534,"end":494.947,"text":"这个是很久了你看看嘛27个单项协会培训的计划中17个协会没有在期限内里面来办理这个和解但是呢你们减核标里面全部写OKOKOK一路OK到底这就是我们所说的嘛为什么每一次我们都觉得说财务要公开透明但是呢我们所呈现出来的你们就是"},{"start":495.507,"end":523.869,"text":"我说实在的放随两个字或是你给人家方便嘛就像你说的大家都很辛苦然后大家辛苦不代表你每样你都可以完全不审核的状况之下全部都给予通过啊否则你如果是这样的话干嘛审计部干嘛要来纠合你们不是吗那如果说这个问题都没有办法解决的话你其实6.0如果6.0都没有用1.0已经有一些失败例子你提出2.0如果这些问题我们刚所提到这些问题目前都还存在的话那你6.0有什么有什么绩效可言"},{"start":524.549,"end":553.063,"text":"我想這在協會的最根源的問題在協會的財力跟人事費方面我想這部分我們其實一個螺絲一個螺絲慢慢在矯正當中所以我們現在其實很多的層面有在幫忙協會希望他們在人事方面能夠把薪水調高之後找到更好的行政人才才不至於一天到晚出現這種delay的情況所以說過去體育署裡面都有這樣的部分現在運動部很多的經費已經比較充裕了是 沒有錯你在人力的這個體涉上面也比較充裕的我們會比較大膽的作為"},{"start":553.703,"end":581.284,"text":"不要再让这些事情完全又一直不断的否则就像我刚刚说的几点零都没有用还有我们有关运动产业条例我们不断的告诉大家这个推动的这个进度到底是如何而且我们特别强调的注意性平的原则还有积极辅导这些运动员工会或团体还有很重要制定并推动防制运动赌博的政策请问过去已经十个月了次长你们到底做了多少"},{"start":582.984,"end":608.518,"text":"目前我如果沒記錯的話應該是已經上網已經公告有嗎我還要你還是要問清楚你依照你的附帶決議的法案三讀後六個月裡面你要哪些運動賽事必須納入防堵的執法執法的部分裡面一定要說你一定要根據我們剛剛的這附帶決議裡面這是白紙黑字寫在這個地方的你們說了你們有嗎你們有在三個月之內做出這些事情嗎有告訴我防堵的執法已經出來了嗎"},{"start":610.993,"end":617.756,"text":"市長 房主的執法出來了嗎不然我們這邊真的是在這邊講了老半天你們都不幫我們 答應回去這實質政策那是沒有執法的要求啊"},{"start":618.277,"end":643.658,"text":"你這邊有特別提到啊我們有關於這些的部分每一次你都跟我說你們的 相關規定啦就我的跟你講的部分裡面就我的裡面來說的話你們只有在11月3號才邀請相關部會對於賽事獎金門票收益還有等等這些三大指標來做一些所謂的一個討論這個是11月3號 幫我完這已經在執行了勒不是我剛剛是說有關運動賽事防堵的範圍這個部分裡面的討論"},{"start":645.74,"end":647.922,"text":"運動範圍討論部分你們11月3號才來做討論那你過去一年都在幹嘛這部分我會請經濟師盡快啦他的範圍的確目前還在的確非常的複雜"},{"start":657.081,"end":677.999,"text":"复杂但是我所得到的部分你们11月3号才开始开会那请你过去我们所要求的部分到底在做些什么可不可以请市长你可以加紧不要每次我们到这个地方你们就会说然后都获得草原的共识然后到最后结果你们事情太多然后都没有一一来我们都会一一来定进度的好不好最后一个这也是蛮离谱的"},{"start":678.979,"end":701.485,"text":"運動部在掛牌之前我不知道你們是不是要盡快消耗大量的大專院校的補助案你們竟然要在核定公務裡面要學校到錯誤的網站進行填報作業社長你知道這是什麼網站嗎這是中國大陸的運動博弈網站你是要叫我們這個學校跟我們的學生下去下賭嗎下注嗎這會不會太離譜啊"},{"start":704.502,"end":724.054,"text":"包委員這部分我個人不曉得那我回去會請督導的次長來這是需要跟我們反映啊你叫他們填報資料就給了一個網站竟然是博弈網站這很離譜欸次長請你調查清楚一下好不好還是你要上網去看一下你也順便下個注一下"},{"start":725.438,"end":746.153,"text":"我没有这个习惯我也没这个习惯啊可是你确认人家是到这个网站去我只能说这个真是太离谱好吧请市长好好的督促啊不管在财务啊还在我刚刚说的这个填写报告还有最重要的是我们当初所定的这些的法规请大家务必开会专家讨论然后一切全部来告诉我们好 谢谢委员"}]}},{"id":"165239","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165239","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe39dc155020d8c12d3b62a46119727b9b94cf7b889f21dc7b7f5ff160f27f5ee205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:27:35 - 09:43:00","影片長度":"00:15:25","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:27:35+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:43:00+08:00","duration":925,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.34659375,"end":7.236593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.45596875,"end":8.012843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.868468750000002,"end":14.374718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.015968750000003,"end":22.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.660343750000003,"end":23.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.044093750000002,"end":36.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.58221875,"end":37.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.74659375,"end":42.336593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.38721875,"end":51.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.938468750000006,"end":59.447843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.578468750000006,"end":60.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.20284375000001,"end":65.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.31596875000001,"end":71.17596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.47534375000001,"end":99.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.23971875000001,"end":95.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.55534375,"end":148.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.44221875000002,"end":156.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.55471875,"end":191.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.93784375,"end":164.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.46534375000002,"end":200.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.40034375000002,"end":201.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.10909375,"end":209.83784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.97284375,"end":225.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.43034375000002,"end":226.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.13471875000002,"end":227.47221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.64096875,"end":231.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.04534375,"end":249.35909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.30409375000002,"end":264.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.12471875,"end":267.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.41096875,"end":277.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.64159375,"end":328.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.58971875000003,"end":286.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.96346875,"end":297.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.15034375000005,"end":317.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.53659375,"end":333.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.93221875,"end":336.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.79284375000003,"end":340.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.31534375,"end":340.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.88909375000003,"end":352.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.14034375,"end":368.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.95221875000004,"end":369.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.31909375000004,"end":377.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.03534375000004,"end":377.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.94659375000003,"end":378.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.43159375000005,"end":382.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.99221875,"end":432.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.14721875000004,"end":390.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.38346875,"end":390.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.04784375,"end":455.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.06471875000005,"end":432.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.70659375,"end":472.10909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.05409375000005,"end":502.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.93471875000006,"end":481.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.25409375000004,"end":489.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.28784375000004,"end":489.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.30784375,"end":496.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.72971875,"end":496.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.45034375000006,"end":533.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.15596875,"end":524.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.8347187500001,"end":526.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.9697187500001,"end":527.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.93909375,"end":537.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.60096875,"end":555.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.3828437500001,"end":565.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.86659375,"end":576.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.3290937500001,"end":588.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.5803437500001,"end":612.3403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.44159375,"end":614.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.82096875,"end":628.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.29721875,"end":618.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.6753437500001,"end":639.6609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.12534375,"end":638.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.41221875,"end":638.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.4797187500001,"end":638.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.0322187500001,"end":656.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.92034375,"end":654.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.0634687500001,"end":703.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":704.37659375,"end":729.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.7547187499999,"end":714.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.95721875,"end":715.1765937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.31534375,"end":718.6865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.8247187500001,"end":726.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":731.0053437500001,"end":739.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":733.48596875,"end":736.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.89034375,"end":738.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.3034687500001,"end":752.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.1453437499999,"end":756.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.87471875,"end":759.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":760.04721875,"end":762.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.2409687500001,"end":762.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":763.03409375,"end":764.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":764.5190937500001,"end":780.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":781.61346875,"end":793.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":793.8984687500001,"end":794.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":795.07971875,"end":849.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":795.90659375,"end":796.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":796.07534375,"end":796.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.3190937500001,"end":802.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":849.7547187500002,"end":853.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":849.92346875,"end":850.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":853.7878437500001,"end":857.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":857.97284375,"end":900.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":900.73409375,"end":915.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":905.4253437500001,"end":905.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":915.6515937500001,"end":920.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":919.14471875,"end":919.4990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":919.97159375,"end":920.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":920.08971875,"end":920.79846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.573,"end":6.715,"text":"主席麻煩紅部長請部長另外一號"},{"start":15.089,"end":35.594,"text":"部長早 首先還是要感謝你因為我們上次質詢針對關稅有被中高齡備份五星假的這個課題你已經啟動讓每個月僱主都通報上來來讓掌握到備份五星假真的先首先先感謝很快的來關心到我們的中高齡備份五星假的問題"},{"start":36.687,"end":57.859,"text":"那我想讓你應該也也知道來下一頁部長你應該也知道是說最近我們的交委會有在處理高溫價的一個議題那看起來將高溫會納入到災害的一個天氣那勞動部在去年8月的時候也修正職業安全衛生設施規則"},{"start":60.632,"end":76.645,"text":"高氣溫的作業熱跟危害的預防指引 想先問部長 目前的修正對高溫下勞工是不是真的有幫助我想其實我們在當時7月的修正的這個"},{"start":78.186,"end":99.801,"text":"高温热危害的指引里面那其实更明确的对于这个高温的风险做出了分类那如果尤其是他若是第4级的话其实雇主就是有义务若进入到第4第4级的风险情绪的话雇主就是有义务要提出预防的做法那如果没有做的话这个我们的检察员是可以开罚的"},{"start":100.635,"end":118.987,"text":"是 可是我們從衛福部的資料大家也可以看到就是熱傷害的個案從2021年423人已經增到2024年的7月的時候已經1204人了成長大概三倍那顯示現在的指引模式可能沒有辦法有效真的是去降低這樣子的一個熱傷害"},{"start":120.087,"end":142.435,"text":"另外我也收到很多未成年勞動者反映許多長期曝曬的一個工作場所僱主跟勞工都不知道這些指引的內容那更別說有沒有執行了這也可能也反映了上述增加的數字也有可能存在是非常多的黑數而目前勞動部似乎也要朝向如何讓勞工工作空間"},{"start":144.416,"end":173.037,"text":"避開熱危害而不是給假的一個模式那目前狀你整個進度的狀態是如何而且如何確保部主可以窒息到這些相關的規定卻確實窒息謝委員 曾子勳這個部分大概就是我們分為勞檢是一定會做的當然就是接下來就是宣導跟輔導那看起來我們這個宣導的層面還要再加強就是如何讓這個指引的內容讓一般的勞工"},{"start":173.757,"end":198.832,"text":"朋友知道說我們的一個一些防護也跟委員報告我們今年也開始提供這個勞工自營作業者他的中小企業勞工跟自營作業者他個人的防護像今年也九月份開始申請到目前為止也蠻多人來申請這個個人的這個風扇衣這個部分我們目前提供如果僱主跟勞工都不知道這個內容的話我會覺得那就是沒有辦法做到比較好的防護不過我建議在勞檢的時候當然剛剛成如"},{"start":201.448,"end":219.159,"text":"要加強宣導跟檢查可是對落實優良的企業是不是可以給予友善職場的認證或者是減稅誘因或者是對於違規者的明確裁罰跟公告這個我是覺得可以進一步來做研議那在部長我真過去針對於包含"},{"start":219.699,"end":247.705,"text":"我們的家庭照顧假育嬰留庭假等多次質詢希望能夠有更彈性的制度如果小朋友因為高熱高溫身體不適的話依照現行的制度那當然家長可以利用一年的一個56個小時的家庭照顧假明年新制上路的話也可以從原本的日記的一個調整成以實際我要給部長先予以肯定確實彈性非常的多這也是我過去一直主張不過我覺得部內現在"},{"start":250.379,"end":267.092,"text":"目前 之前我们有提过国际照顾价的研究计划你们也在做了希望能参考国外的经验现在也开了很多场的专家学者会议也提出了对应的措施政策不知道下一步你的规划会是什么"},{"start":268.427,"end":282.706,"text":"我想我們其實目前的確在今年九月我們公佈的因為劉庭談性話裡面讓大家可以一日來請30日那家庭照顧家也以時來請我們是認為我們可能先給因為"},{"start":283.807,"end":308.846,"text":"確實台灣的中小企業蠻多的所以其實大家也會需要在這個情境下面有一個適應期其實我跟委員報告其實這兩個月我們是非常緊鑼密鼓的在找企業包括是企業的人資在讓他們了解我們這個措施其實要怎麼樣更簡正便民的執行用更簡化的程序的方法讓大家可以操作不會在申請上面造成過多的"},{"start":309.847,"end":333.243,"text":"負擔所以這幾個月我們其實辦了很多場跟這些人資的夥伴尤其是不同產業人資的夥伴在辦那的確我們是希望說也許這個做法這個彈性化的做法可以先上路一段時間當然後續是不是要再來做範圍上面的擴大當然我覺得我們也可以來評估跟演繹那明年第一季是不是這個國際照顧價的研究計畫是不是可以完成報告"},{"start":335.243,"end":357.965,"text":"應該是可以好那是不是一週內可以提供我一些相關的資料就是你這計劃進行好謝謝那再來我們就看到就針對育嬰留停假勞動部真的放寬了非常多的限制不過明天即將上路的卻還是沒有適用年齡當初我們還是希望比照國際有的是到到那個8歲可是你現在依然還是維持在現行的3歲而且是以日為單位"},{"start":358.766,"end":376.641,"text":"而媒體報導說未來不排除擴大不然這部分你的考量會是什麼就是三歲以下那為什麼沒有擴大有在研議嗎未來有可能擴大嗎跟文文說明其實我們這次做了這樣子的突破這次的突破的幅度其實是蠻大的那"},{"start":379.502,"end":401.787,"text":"的確會有一些中小企業他們跟我們表達其實這對於他們在企業內部的管理跟排班上面也會有一些挑戰所以一樣是剛剛我們也是在思考說因為這一次的做法是透過還不用修模法的狀況先來做所以我們希望能夠讓我們的產業界有一段時間的"},{"start":403.867,"end":431.417,"text":"調適跟適應那讓這樣以日請休的運營留庭的方式慢慢的摸索也熟悉能夠上手那在企業跟勞工之間的相關的權益那怎麼樣做到平衡而且能夠互相支持那到一個調適的階段後續那對於是不是剛才說要把年齡再提高或者是範圍再擴大我覺得如果尤其是他可能會涉及到法律上的修正的話那我覺得我們也可以來做這樣子的考慮"},{"start":432.538,"end":448.972,"text":"再麻煩部長去做一些研議因為我們還是期望能夠朝向真的幫助到家庭可是除了要照顧自己的孩子的話蠟燭另外一端就是年長者隨著超高齡社會的到來依照勞動部推估我們台灣的就業人口當中"},{"start":449.332,"end":471.895,"text":"同時需要照顧他人的占五分之一 超過200萬人其中每年約18萬人因照顧而調整工時或者是請假甚至13.3萬人是因照顧而離職那這對於缺工又希望促進中高齡就業的社會來講無疑是個打擊針對這些影響 三明治的勞工勞動部有沒有什麼樣的一個應對政策"},{"start":473.106,"end":501.708,"text":"跟委員說明第一個其實針對長照就是台灣的勞工那是否家裡有長照的需求是不是要再做我們的職場制度或公司制度的調整部分其實我們有跟衛福部討論那當然因為現在衛福部他目前也正在規劃那後續已經要來執行所謂的長照3.0所以我們這部分會跟衛福部綜合來研議如果衛福部認為在長照3.0的政策之下"},{"start":502.589,"end":520.789,"text":"是有需要在職場的制度上面做出一些相對應的調整然後來去因應台灣的長照需求的話當然我們也不排除跟衛福部一起在做這部分的討論但是重點是他還是是要請衛福部這邊先做目前長照整體需求的評估"},{"start":521.349,"end":533.144,"text":"因為這部分我們沒有在需求面這不是我們沒有辦法自己單獨完成這件事情可是在長照需求評估完成有個很比較清楚的輪廓假如有需要職場制度的話那我想我們可以在一起來討論"},{"start":534.008,"end":555.042,"text":"因為最實際的案例是當老人就是住院就長輩住院出院前準備凡家後使用長照甚至聘僱移工之前都需要子女請假去安排所以每次安排時間大概20天到30天不等當然我們現在看到衛福部也一直在縮短這個準備時間可是這就像剛剛部長講的說未來老公"},{"start":556.603,"end":574.91,"text":"衛福部如果確定的話那你這個家庭照顧假因為現在看到的只有7天以下就是用完因為根本不夠因為現在如果講20到30天如果搭配一年14天的特休的話加起來也才21天可能就是沒有辦法達到可是我們反觀看日本就是說"},{"start":576.431,"end":602.558,"text":"他們的那個長期照顧假就長照假長期照顧的安排假裡邊針對於家中有長者安排的會給予一些彈性所以他們的育兒戒護那個修業法每一位長輩就是一生當中有93天的時間可以提供子女請假去做長照的一個準備當然包含南韓德國跟法國有類似的制度當然我知道說我們現在一時要到達很難"},{"start":603.298,"end":627.451,"text":"可是請問部長因為從2019年民間團體就在倡議至今那勞動部對長期照顧安排價有什麼規劃那短充期的目標工作目標又是什麼其實就如同剛才跟委員說的就是說這部分我們真的會也需要衛福部這邊其實在他整體的長照政策的需求評估上面那來去"},{"start":628.826,"end":655.844,"text":"做一個下一個階段的評估啦尤其是現在有長照3.0的政策那衛福部也一直跟我們說他們會把這相關很多的間隔的時間大幅的縮短那可能在衛福部政策的目標下可能那個可能很多的那個時間的間隔的需求可能會跟過去是不太一樣可是他可能會需要他們在實施以後來去更清楚的去描繪這件事情我們比較能夠來評估是不是有這樣子的需求"},{"start":656.604,"end":671.297,"text":"我是認為說如果目前當然我們沒辦法比照日本而且我覺得已經也大幅的針對於育兒的家庭已經有針對於那個前面剛剛提的已經有一些改變了那可不可以考慮一下"},{"start":672.037,"end":687.374,"text":"一定比例的就是说现在事实上我们的家庭照顾家事实上是无薪的那有没有办法事实上是有薪假然后由政府来负担我们的雇主多余的支出然后这样子先做这样的一个"},{"start":688.167,"end":703.807,"text":"調整希望勞動部可以先做去考量因為我們當然沒辦法要求到30天甚至日本是到93天那有沒有辦法事實上先做這樣的一個考慮那請勞動部在一個月內是不是可以把研議的狀況提供給我們辦公室"},{"start":704.397,"end":727.524,"text":"可以 我這邊就直接的跟委員說因為如果家庭照顧家有心的話那不脫兩個方面要不就是企業支付薪資要不就是政府支付可是我們計算過如果是政府支出的話其實這需要非常大的財政的能力可能算起來是這個"},{"start":731.285,"end":756.524,"text":"幾百億以上的中央政府的財政那你現在中央政府的財政狀況難度是很高的所以我說先考量去研議因為畢竟現在家庭就在育兒跟照顧長輩夾殺當中事實上是非常辛苦的接下來一樣是關於假的議題前天勞動部有召開病假權入法的公聽會目的是要解決雇主"},{"start":756.963,"end":780.482,"text":"可以能以病假来审查全金奖金晋升考核等不利待遇的手段变相来惩罚请假的一个员工进而造成病假成为职场的一个风险扣年度的考级等不利待遇事实上大部分劳工会担心的所以往往会抱病去上班所以目前劳动部的修法的方向是什么"},{"start":782.053,"end":808.111,"text":"公務員報告其實在這個長榮航空的這個事件之下其實各界都很關心勞工請病假權因為都不希望這個企業過度的運用管理制度讓員工不敢請病假只能抱病上班然後甚至影響到員工的健康權也影響其實也會影響到很多的服務品質跟工作的成果"},{"start":809.071,"end":829.642,"text":"所以我們其實在這個星期一其實我們就邀請我們相關的公會團體不只是全國性的公會其實有一些也是地方的公會很關心的公會也一起來那包括跟雇主團體一起來研商那我們就是希望接下來在病假保障的權利上病假權的法制化上面"},{"start":830.402,"end":853.064,"text":"需要給予目前勞工在請病假的權利上面一定程度的保障至少一個合理的保障讓我們的勞工至少在請病假的時候不會擔心遭到企業不利的對待各種可能各種的不利的對待讓大家不敢請休對 部長但我還要特別提醒就是修法是一定要修"},{"start":854.04,"end":871.556,"text":"尤其是雇主利用不利待遇的一個手段讓請假權成為一個被剝奪的對象可是除了立法我收到更多勞工反映的是即便是有法的保障雇主有沒有遵守法律有沒有有效的內部外部申訴機制其實是更重要的"},{"start":872.296,"end":896.135,"text":"所以包含申請勞檢的時候有沒有發現實際的問題而非我們檢查形式上的設置卻沒有實際作用所以我希望勞動部也要注意到這一塊然後來做預防否則的話基本上沒有辦法達到所以最後就是希望你們真的要能夠落實那個申訴機制還有增加我們的勞檢的強度不要做表面的公佈還要盡快啟動我們的"},{"start":898.417,"end":920.014,"text":"企業的盡職調查以上我想我們不會我們不會是只會停在所謂做表面功夫尤其是我們可能這部分也會接下來如果制度修正以後也會需要有專案性的這個檢查讓企業在這方面把法尊給做起來我相信洪部長很關心勞工應該一定都能夠完成謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165238","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165238","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3d9f2366e0f6eee09b62a46119727b9b94cf7b889f21dc7b794876b56de8f8c9f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:15:50 - 09:27:29","影片長度":"00:11:39","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:15:50+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:27:29+08:00","duration":699,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.37596875,"end":8.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.21096875,"end":15.285968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.555968750000002,"end":17.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.64846875,"end":19.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.38659375,"end":21.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.59721875,"end":22.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.043468750000002,"end":28.718468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.75221875,"end":28.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.76909375,"end":79.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.078468750000006,"end":47.517218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.86284375,"end":50.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.14721875000001,"end":66.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.52534375,"end":76.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.07346875,"end":79.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.18721875,"end":81.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.90846875000001,"end":84.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.80284375000001,"end":83.19096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.49034375000001,"end":86.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.82346875,"end":92.86034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.40096875,"end":89.53596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.00846875,"end":90.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.05471875,"end":144.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.57721875,"end":95.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.06534375000001,"end":104.26784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.51034375,"end":167.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.49221875,"end":153.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.02784375000002,"end":156.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.63034375,"end":161.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.54909375,"end":172.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.58284375000002,"end":167.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.62471875,"end":170.09721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.48534375,"end":171.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.68346875,"end":172.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.67471875,"end":192.18659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.04096875000002,"end":180.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.93409375000002,"end":187.95096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.95096875000002,"end":188.22096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.23721875,"end":193.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.25409375,"end":192.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.04721875,"end":198.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.14409375000002,"end":195.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.07159375,"end":207.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.71159375000002,"end":209.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.81284375,"end":208.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.06159375000001,"end":221.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.58034375000003,"end":211.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.28846875000002,"end":215.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.25034375,"end":217.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.11909375000002,"end":219.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.30471875,"end":219.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.39721875,"end":247.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.87409375000001,"end":253.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.59471875000003,"end":254.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.28221875000003,"end":257.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.62784375,"end":258.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.11721875,"end":284.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.22284375000004,"end":285.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.29846875000004,"end":299.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.15346875,"end":297.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.91659375,"end":300.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.96284375000005,"end":308.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.82659375000003,"end":310.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.94471875,"end":311.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.98659375,"end":311.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.79659375,"end":314.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.20971875000004,"end":315.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.86784375,"end":316.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.65659375,"end":317.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.36534375,"end":335.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.78659375,"end":323.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.11534375,"end":324.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.58221875000004,"end":334.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.91534375000003,"end":345.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.20909375,"end":354.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.36409375,"end":354.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.99659375000005,"end":362.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.54471875,"end":358.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.86096875000004,"end":359.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.45534375,"end":385.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.33284375000005,"end":363.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.92409375,"end":387.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.86909375000005,"end":396.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.39096875,"end":401.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.10346875000005,"end":402.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.53346875000005,"end":405.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.60909375,"end":406.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.16159375,"end":419.40846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.14409375,"end":411.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.67034375000003,"end":420.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.67846875000004,"end":430.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.23096875000005,"end":421.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.03596875000005,"end":442.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.93221875,"end":453.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.97346875000005,"end":449.91846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.91846875000005,"end":449.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.95221875000004,"end":449.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.96909375,"end":449.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.99846875000003,"end":451.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.42034375000003,"end":451.43721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.49159375000005,"end":464.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.38034375,"end":468.31221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.99596875000003,"end":467.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.94096875,"end":497.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.62409375000004,"end":502.06221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.28159375,"end":503.36159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.10409375000006,"end":512.5247187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.36971875000006,"end":506.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.23409375000006,"end":509.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.32659375000003,"end":514.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.03096875,"end":518.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.75596875,"end":518.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.9709687500001,"end":532.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.85909375,"end":533.7365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.8928437500001,"end":533.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.7365937500001,"end":542.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.96346875,"end":540.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.83659375,"end":543.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.0009687500001,"end":548.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.89471875,"end":557.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":557.5303437499999,"end":558.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.71159375,"end":575.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.75971875,"end":575.9072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.9072187500001,"end":615.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.5134687500001,"end":611.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.6984687500001,"end":640.3190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.5703437500001,"end":625.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.90784375,"end":626.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.5278437500001,"end":627.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.85659375,"end":630.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.11659375,"end":656.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.65471875,"end":653.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.3759687500001,"end":655.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.86096875,"end":659.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":660.11346875,"end":665.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.35784375,"end":664.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.5009687500001,"end":668.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":667.85909375,"end":679.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.65221875,"end":669.7322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.6897187500001,"end":673.8328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.3215937500001,"end":683.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.6372187500001,"end":693.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.63659375,"end":688.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.07096875,"end":689.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":691.5515937499999,"end":691.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":691.87221875,"end":691.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.74971875,"end":692.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.9015937500001,"end":692.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.1797187500001,"end":696.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.5715937500001,"end":699.61784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.773,"end":22.481,"text":"謝謝主席我想在質詢之前我想向服務本組的議事人員蔡豐如女士表達哀悼之意她在星期天過世我祝福她往生淨土 得享永恆安樂謝謝主席 那有請洪部長來 有請部長"},{"start":28.269,"end":46.072,"text":"陳委員早部長早剛剛您的報告當中因為有提到薪資的部分那你念的平均薪資沒有念到中位數薪資你知道這兩個字數字向來差了將近一萬塊所以我主張我們在醫學上也都是用中位數來表達因為有些人極端的數字會影響這個判讀"},{"start":47.754,"end":67.494,"text":"這讓大家民眾的感受會是比較靠近那第二個就是生育補助部分也是一樣當陳時中政委公佈的時候他說一胎十萬大家都一胎十萬好像可能會有感也不見得會有感可是事實上不是那您剛剛念的是對的只是說他是補助至十萬本來就有兩個月的補助津貼"},{"start":68.235,"end":82.359,"text":"所以我覺得政府在做這個不管是你覺得福利式的或是說一個惠民式的一個措施的時候我覺得要講清楚因為誤解是更不好您剛剛是念對啦但是我是說政委在公布的時候不是這樣的標題都是十萬塊"},{"start":85.461,"end":103.541,"text":"我想在當時在這個生育給付加上生育補助其實這個是好事啦我只是說有時候讓民眾的感覺要真實一點部長謝謝你那兩週前行政院通過勞動部的一個跨國勞動力精進方案那我今天想跟部長討論一下這個方案的執行"},{"start":104.702,"end":126.953,"text":"跨國勞動力的這個精進方案其中一個政策就是製造業每加薪一位2000元本勞2000元那就可以增加一位移工的這個名額那這項政策是希望同時能夠舒緩低薪還有缺工的一個問題出發點非常好但是這個執行細節上我覺得還是要小心恐怕有時候會有一些本末倒時問題請問部長"},{"start":128.314,"end":139.719,"text":"假如企業為了增加移工名額做了表面的加薪增加本薪2000元但原本的工作獎金或福利卻減少了或是取消了請問勞動部會允許嗎如果企業這麼做你還會同意給他新的移工名額嗎"},{"start":145.54,"end":172.826,"text":"我想我們基本上我們就是希望企業能夠落實加薪尤其是我要強調這個是給相對低薪的本國勞工加薪我們知道那如果企業有相關的這些不誠實的規避的行為或者是就像說這個假加薪的這個狀況的話我想我們就會取消他的名額你們可以查核嗎你們有辦法查核嗎如何去認定可以嗎你們查核得到嗎我們通過勞保資料可以"},{"start":174.618,"end":192.595,"text":"你們如果說有辦法查核 那是最好的我們希望這是一個實質的 實質下薪那這個政策也提到增額的那個移工期滿續聘必須幫本國勞工再次的加薪如果要續聘 請問這個再次的加薪薪資是多少 有規定嗎其實一樣 也就是說 我跟委員說明"},{"start":199.555,"end":220.945,"text":"基本上比方說你如果幫10個本國勞工加薪2000塊你可以取得10個移工的名額但是在續聘的時候要維持這10個名額你還必須要再加薪一次就是一樣是10個本國勞工再加薪一次那才能夠保持這10個名額"},{"start":221.525,"end":247.063,"text":"現在很清楚 謝謝你那這個方案 跨國勞動力經濟方案還有另外一個政策是放寬外國技術人力的流用上限這應該是這個移工留才久用方案的一個延伸但是從2022年到現在移工團體認為這是失敗 為什麼呢因為本來是希望說資深移工那他可以升階到這個中階技術人才技術人力長期留在台灣但是三年半了"},{"start":247.944,"end":254.439,"text":"部長 李耿澤生中間移工僅佔男女移工總數的百分比多少 您知道嗎目前5萬多人"},{"start":256.742,"end":282.01,"text":"4.5%這5萬多人 這很少 也有4.5%那這個不到一成的轉換率那明顯應該無法達到這個流財的目標那過去也有一些移工因為他們要身為這個中階人力的時候需要繳交更高的仲介費而且部分仲介甚至趁此去哄抬那個收費所以部長對於這麼低的轉換率還有這個仲介可能從中剝削勞動部知道嗎你們怎麼處理這件事"},{"start":284.831,"end":300.1,"text":"跟委員說明吼其實的確很多中小企業他的那個可能中小型的工廠他用的移工數比較少所以他們都來跟我們反映他們想要把他轉成中階技術人力已經到達那個原本25%的天花板了是"},{"start":301.004,"end":311.027,"text":"就是他們還想要再轉更多可是因為達到已經達到25%的天花板了所以就限制住他們能夠轉換的數字所以這是為什麼我們把它打開我們現在把這就是為什麼我們把這25%打開的原因"},{"start":316.129,"end":344.83,"text":"那當然接下來針對仲介費因為現在國際上面都非常非常關注仲介費的這個問題我們會在整體的強迫勞動整體的來思考裡面包括我想這幾天大家也知道我們會做相關的法規的檢討裡面希望能夠更大程度的去面對這個事情我再請教你一個問題因為這個移工團一直訴求的廢除燃領移工工作的年限請問你們的想法是什麼有往這個方向去做的可能性嗎"},{"start":345.27,"end":362.076,"text":"其實的確現在我們為什麼在這次的方案裡面更加的重視這個外國技術人力其實很重要包括外國技術人力的權利因為透過外國技術人力的工作年限是沒有限制的那我們也希望把這個通道打得更開"},{"start":364.517,"end":384.444,"text":"那部長 勞動部明年就是說要在菲律賓設置跨國勞動力延展中心那我就請教 這個是好事那我請教部長為什麼選擇菲律賓是基於什麼評估是原能力 人力供應 市場關係還是外交考量還有另外就是說在做選擇的時候有沒有跟其他的東南亞國家做一個比較麻煩部長"},{"start":388.081,"end":411.378,"text":"第一個先謝謝委員的肯定那我們其實要設置延展中心其中一個很重要的目的其實就是希望能夠強化這個國對國的職併的能量大家期待很久那這也是我們很實質的作為那第一個當然也有考慮菲律賓目前跟我們的外交關係是很好的"},{"start":412.499,"end":427.733,"text":"也包括其實菲律賓也一直有來跟我們表達希望大家在人才上面能夠有更多的合作所以我們也在這個理由之下菲律賓現在是先做的選擇第一個選擇是菲律賓但是我們也在評估其他的選擇"},{"start":429.394,"end":441.903,"text":"也不只縣 菲律賓我想請教這個延攬中心招募對象是中階技術人員還是一般的初階的藍營移工因為我看到預算書你們的目標是15000人那主要又放在哪些產業"},{"start":443.347,"end":467.241,"text":"其實因為我們這次開放的旅宿業的技術人力跟三崗碼頭的技術人力其實他們會透過延展中心進來但是延展中心也會協助蘭嶺移工的職聘所以蘭嶺移工的職聘跟中階技術人力的這個相關的引進都會透過我們的延展中心來擴大協助的能量"},{"start":468.041,"end":497.322,"text":"部長您剛剛提到了好不容易聽到一個國對國的這個職聘那我還是在問請教如果他們進來後會有仲介介入嗎那在菲律賓會不會被收取這個仲介費我的意思說因為如果你要去設個海外延攬中心的話那我們應該要保護這個勞工在母國或在台灣都不要再有仲介業者穿梭其中不然就失去你在海外設立這個延攬中心的這個意義你有做過這個部分的考量嗎或是管理"},{"start":497.682,"end":517.855,"text":"跟文說明的確現在我說國際上也非常非常關注這個仲介費相關的問題那我們會一步一步來做檢討那包括國外包括國內但是我想我們這一次的計劃的內容是很明確的我們往前跨了一步"},{"start":518.996,"end":531.765,"text":"部長因為要聽到您的一個勞動部長講出國對國的職聘是不容易的那我還是請教 之前問過你那個Giant巨大他被指控強迫勞動也被美國發出這個戰扣令請問目前的進度是什麼 有解除了嗎"},{"start":533.138,"end":554.385,"text":"還解除了嗎跟委員說明因為當然這個現在巨大公司也正在跟美國的CPP他們在做直接的討論還在努力直接討論就目前我們看到巨大公司也做出了改善的承諾我先確定一下就是說他是不是違反勞動的勞動法令還是另外一個我們剛剛你談到的仲介費問題這兩個都有嗎我先確認一下"},{"start":559.008,"end":575.75,"text":"確實 因為勞動部去檢查說沒有啊沒有違反那個台中市勞工局去檢查說沒有那我就說勞動法令這是等一下我再跟你稍微討論一下仲介費因為本來就很容易被國外嘛歐美國家認為這個仲介費就是剝削勞工我想你現在也知情了嘛了解這樣的事情我不是現在才知情"},{"start":576.25,"end":596.749,"text":"好謝謝你很久之前關心勞工就知道了那現在有自行車的大廠說台灣的法規這是天家雜誌報導移工可以自行因為我們的法規有明定移工可以自行負擔一定比例的仲介費保險啊這個裡面包括機票仲介費保險等等但是歐美期待是零付費所以我的意思是說排除那個一般的我們所謂勞檢這個不合格台灣的法規跟不上國際的要求因為我們允許"},{"start":601.733,"end":624.512,"text":"所以企業界覺得他們按照台灣的法規去做可是會被可能在國際上會被懲罰所以這個問題就落在這個勞動部身上了他即使合規和我們勞檢但是他因為還有這個仲介費的部分跟我們說明我們第一個我們會先來做一個行動的指引來跟經濟部一起合作輔導企業但是我們同時也正進行法規的盤點"},{"start":625.993,"end":653.844,"text":"那我們也會在輔導的同時來去檢討那這個法規跟國際要求上面之間是不是還存在著落差那是不是要來後續在什麼樣的期程之下來去思考要不要做檢討甚至改善謝謝您今天的那個回答因為您今天就是有談得很清楚你知道你先做指引但我們知道指引是行政行政的指引它是沒有約束力的那你剛剛有提到說在法規面你要盤點就是往法規面走"},{"start":654.304,"end":678.016,"text":"這個方向是我們期待的會往法規面盤但的確因為台灣的中小企業比較多那所以其實我們也會需要考慮到不同規模之間的調適能力16家企業其實也被點名吧對所以我跟委員說因為台灣的企業的規模從大到小有很多所以也必須幫比較小型的企業去設想他可能需要的調適的能力"},{"start":678.756,"end":689.721,"text":"據瞭解我隨便這樣 被扣要在總供應鏈有2.7兆2.7兆這麼多 所以部長這個腳步要快要用這樣的方式來 影響太大了好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳偉 謝謝部長"}]}},{"id":"165248","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165248","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe30f9fcb50de7ecda457c737e12387eef81bffb99621b7826e3b03e28eaf265d4f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"09:52:14 - 10:05:35","影片長度":"00:13:21","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:52:14+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:05:35+08:00","duration":801,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.1953437500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.008468750000002,"end":11.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.94471875,"end":105.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.41096875000001,"end":107.22096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.79471875,"end":110.35971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":112.30034375000001,"end":169.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.65846875,"end":269.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":270.09846875,"end":271.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":271.41471875,"end":298.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":298.02659375,"end":304.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":303.94971875000005,"end":304.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":304.64159375,"end":304.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":304.84409375,"end":305.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":305.97471875,"end":310.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.76721875000004,"end":316.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":314.83409375,"end":318.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.74096875000004,"end":316.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":317.68596875000003,"end":318.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":318.34409375,"end":328.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.02596875,"end":336.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":336.26534375,"end":337.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.57721875000004,"end":344.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":343.82534375,"end":361.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.23846875000004,"end":346.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.17721875,"end":366.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":366.45471875000004,"end":379.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.89159375,"end":386.53596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":386.63721875000005,"end":391.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.63659375000003,"end":393.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":393.53909375,"end":401.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.02284375000005,"end":404.28846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":405.36846875000003,"end":406.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":406.88721875000005,"end":477.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":477.47534375000004,"end":563.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":563.21721875,"end":590.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.17471875,"end":596.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.23721875,"end":599.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.8528437500001,"end":600.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.3715937500001,"end":601.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.43471875,"end":606.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.9909687500001,"end":608.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.2690937500001,"end":610.3659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.2097187500001,"end":615.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":615.4622187500001,"end":689.8640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":690.0834687500001,"end":704.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":706.5365937500001,"end":731.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":713.0672187499999,"end":715.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":731.96721875,"end":732.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":732.7097187500001,"end":732.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":732.7265937500001,"end":769.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":769.9865937500001,"end":771.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":776.1965937500001,"end":779.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":779.60534375,"end":780.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":780.87096875,"end":781.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":781.9340937500001,"end":782.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":782.18721875,"end":785.4778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":785.2078437499999,"end":787.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":786.92909375,"end":802.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":802.96034375,"end":802.97721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.231,"end":1.059,"text":"来做寻答"},{"start":9.045,"end":29.802,"text":"好 謝謝我們主席莊昭偉我這邊先有一個前言當然也是呼應我們昭偉剛才所講的大概我們到現在這個階段很多不僅是概念轉變了但是在概念轉變的時候其實同樣的整個配套制度也必須要相對完整"},{"start":30.563,"end":48.712,"text":"所以本席今天其實要針對這個少年事件處理法導入行政輔導先行的制度實務上面臨的兩大問題來跟各部會來更新一下目前的一個進度那麼第一個部分是中央層級跨部會整合機制的缺席本席之前一直提"},{"start":49.372,"end":76.391,"text":"那第二個部分是地方執行量能與流程鍛煉的結構性困境制度強調預防優於懲罰但是如果沒有運作良好的治理中樞跟穩定的人力財務支撐最後只會指上改革就是剛才本席呼應我們主席這邊所講的其實配套的部分也必須要做比較細緻所以像台南少府會最近就傳出性騷內鬥"},{"start":77.952,"end":106.92,"text":"而導致空轉的這樣一個疑雲那麼在報載也明確提到台南少府會資源少所以沒有強制力那各單位調來的職員多靠熱忱來工作所以本席以下就先針對設置少年事件中樞機構也就是如何在中央給錢給人來設置一個中央的統籌機構那接下來是不是請我們副秘書長跟法務部的徐次長"},{"start":108.332,"end":110.081,"text":"請王副秘書長還有徐政次"},{"start":112.332,"end":137.457,"text":"好 謝謝兩位所以第一個部分是中央的這個部分本席一直講一直強調已經也好幾次了我們目前中央的這個統籌機構的缺席而導致整個評估標準分散在校安諮詢跟輔導網路那麼少年法院跟這個關戶體系還有警政通報 社政跟心理健康各自為政那麼資料各自管理流程也不太相通"},{"start":138.297,"end":155.429,"text":"那麼少府會在地方扮演一些協調的平台但是沒有中央的一個常設中樞的一個機構給予一些統一的標準績效的指標跟預算的一個支持那麼更缺少跨部會決策的一個資源調度實質的一個主導的一個指揮權"},{"start":156.409,"end":181.508,"text":"結果呢在地方上呢都會區勉強還可以上軌道但是呢非都會區或偏鄉長期是資源不足而導致機制空轉那麼司法院你們是不是認同應該設置本席之前有提出來的全國少年行政輔導與資源整合中心那也就是一個中央少婦會的概念然後來跨部會成為一個跨部會的中樞負責標準作業流程"},{"start":183.129,"end":210.556,"text":"通報的資訊的一個整合風險模型的一個建置跟量能落差的一個縮減可以做個案的一些支援這個部分會後是不是也可以再提供給本席最新的一個進度我這邊強調在一戰式的通報跟風險預警的重要性中央應該還是要建置一個跨部會的少年偏差行為通報整合的平台以單一的個案來串聯學校缺課"},{"start":212.496,"end":229.981,"text":"礦課、霸凌事件、警政的紀錄、設政的服務還有就醫和心理的評估然後設定資料治理的規範跟權限要做分級導入結構化的風險工具如YLS或CMI或SAVERY同類型的評估連動風險分級、儲遇的建議跟轉介的路徑、三段式的決策"},{"start":237.383,"end":266.1,"text":"那麼這樣或許對涉毒幫派的一個吸收跟暴力傾向的高風險個案我們可以很迅速的來觸發應變轉入司法系統的一個標準那是不是司法院跟法務部可以就現行少年法院跟關乎體系的一個銜接跟資訊互動的情形還有評估的一個機制那把更詳盡的一個內容提供給本席那現在可以做一個簡單的一個回應嗎其實重點就是中央的這樣一個機構的一個設置"},{"start":267.342,"end":268.996,"text":"那你們評估的一個可行性"},{"start":271.557,"end":296.422,"text":"包委員我們非常感佩委員對於少年制度的關心委員以上所提的這些建議因為它是屬於行政端的進入到法院之前或者是法院之後外圍的這一端它並不是一個司法議題所以說這個部分因為不是司法院的職權我們不便於就是說"},{"start":299.343,"end":327.609,"text":"我知道先前你其實有建議應該是在行政院下面來設置這樣一個平台嘛 對不對我們不會那個越權去做建議就是說因為他並不是一個司法司法的那個應該是說我們在談這個問題當中您這樣一個論調先前其實也有提過我們肯定這個方向是那所以這相關的行政單位是不是也可以做一個回應這個是本席一直在關心也就是中央機構的一個設置然後能夠來銜接各地方實質的一個運作"},{"start":329.059,"end":343.398,"text":"報告委員 因為邵府會的那個主管是內政部不是法務部所以大概目前 官部的態度呢我們對主管機關的決定我們都支持報告委員的見解是比較完整性"},{"start":344.059,"end":365.841,"text":"因為現在真的是各地方這樣一個效果不彰我們這個預防的這樣一個效果其實在實時的運作上目前真的是有點轉不動尤其是偏鄉或者是財力人力都不太足的相對的都會區是有一個實時的問題因為這不是本部的業務所以我很不好意思不好幫人家回答"},{"start":366.482,"end":385.795,"text":"你們應該更積極一點大家都說有平台要跨部會但是各部會當你們談到本席所講的一個中樞的機構的時候其實你們應該更積極的做一個支持跟配合嘛委員的理想我們都支持但是就是保護部是主於犯罪偵查那個離少年的輔導還有一段距離"},{"start":386.816,"end":401.348,"text":"但是本席講的前面的這段如果沒有做好你們後面就會很累啊所以我說我支持委員的看法好 謝謝法務部的支持接下來本席可不可以也請警政署蕭副 今天是蕭副局長還有衛福部"},{"start":405.407,"end":421.069,"text":"郭副司長 是嗎還有教育部 戴副還有我們園民會的那個那個亞博賞運處長也在那當然原住民的議題是本席非常關心的那今天因為我們在法案的這個部分也有提到"},{"start":421.71,"end":443.686,"text":"跟原住民相關的那本席的這個概念也希望原民會這邊也能夠了解那剛好我已經講了一個整體的概念那接下來我就要為地方來請命了那地方所碰到的問題那各部會所以我們都在講跨部會那但是好像是如果沒有直接關擠或沒有很大的事件發生大家就是那我們可能我們就很保守的對應"},{"start":444.566,"end":458.903,"text":"但是這樣一個我們目前這樣很大的一個概念的轉變其實在這幾年大家也看到地方確實是那個量能不足所以本席在這邊跟大家談一下現在地方的一個情形 第一個"},{"start":459.363,"end":483.923,"text":"是資料不太互通所以 教育 警政 社政那麼 園民 我想我們也是一個等於是一個小內閣了那 各自記錄那 我相信那個園民會又更辛苦了這個部分在地方還要那麼多的事務還要再去追這個相關的這些主題的主管的這樣業務其實是各單位主管的業務也是蠻辛苦的但是 畢竟這個部分還是要做 因為"},{"start":484.603,"end":503.08,"text":"我想這個原名的這個區塊在這裡面其實是也常常會被忽略的所以在資料不互通的一個情況下呢那教育警政社政都各自記錄那麼同樣一個少年通報呢缺乏那個唯一的識別跟整合的儀表板那麼沒有辦法形成一個完整的風險樣態第二個部分"},{"start":505.442,"end":521.382,"text":"是協作的機制沒有強制力那麼少府會為什麼一直強調中央的一個重要性沒有法律明文的規定強制來召集權所以跨部會在做這個相關決策的時候常常會出現呢出席的局處人員不齊"},{"start":522.083,"end":538.61,"text":"那決議也沒有辦法實地運作的情況那第三個部分是工具不太精準那我們也沒有導入結構化的風險評估工具跟分級的一個處遇的路徑那都是承辦人的經驗的一個判斷那措施的很重要的介入的這個時機點"},{"start":539.87,"end":544.493,"text":"根據2024本席這邊的調查 少婦會的不開案率高達了36%不開案最大的原因就是不符合所謂的曝險標準但是修法後的曝險三類的指標 反而會讓孩子更難進入少婦會體系來及早輔導"},{"start":562.463,"end":590.238,"text":"那麼警政署衛福部教育部你們一同可不可以一同說明現行跨系統的一個資料對接的一個改善然後也請司法院說明強化少婦會法定的一個權限復選少年制度改進的一個修法的一個規劃好不好那如果有現在簡單的回應如果沒有事後將比較詳盡的書面資料提供給本席好不好那請各單位現在可不可以針對剛才本席所講的部分做一個回應"},{"start":592.216,"end":610.109,"text":"現在委員的提示那委員講的真的是一針見血那邵委會這是在內政部體制裡面那事實上執行邵委會的執行是在各縣市政府裡面簡單的來做表述就是說這個縣市要看"},{"start":611.486,"end":628.886,"text":"縣市長有沒有這樣的理念這個縣市長有這樣的理念所以當中央我們修了一個法然後改了一個概念結果事實上整個配套還有實際進行都有點空轉你不覺得嗎然後談到各部會的一個業務那大家說那主管部會如何如何"},{"start":629.887,"end":651.598,"text":"麻煩你們在會後把相關的資料給本席做一個回應但是本席還是一直追我覺得中央沒有這樣一個平台地方的量能真的是不足最後我要向主管單位衛福部我來跟你們請命一下整個其實在你們這樣導入行政輔導先行的一個修法上路之後呢雖然我們希望能夠透過輔導來代替懲罰讓預防來代替矯正但是呢"},{"start":657.842,"end":677.704,"text":"這其實前線的社工還有少府員成了最大的受害者因為配套不到位那行政負擔又被增資源卻在原地踏步那中生代的職員就紛紛的離職那制度的根基正在崩壞所以當我們有這樣概念的時候實質的運作如果配套沒有跟上它就會像這幾年的空轉"},{"start":678.345,"end":703.472,"text":"那地方更是辛苦所以本席要在這邊為第一線的這個相關的人員請命那衛福部衛福部應該在這個區塊做更深入的一個了解然後大家的離職還有資源的這個不足或者是實際運作跟跨部會較不動的狀況你們到底怎麼樣在配套上能夠真正來處理才能夠符合我們這樣一個修法的概念那這個部分可不可以簡單回應"},{"start":706.719,"end":731.943,"text":"市委員那因為目前邵府會主管是在內政部但剛剛委員提到的這個跨系統這相關的人員應該是在你們下面如果是那個警政這邊也有申請那個市安網的經費補助來充實地方邵府會的人力那各個系統之間如果有需要一些個案資料的串接這個部分如果邵府會的系統提出來我們社政這邊都可以來做相關的配合"},{"start":732.783,"end":750.856,"text":"所以這邊本席三點 建議很快啦第一個 設置跨部會的常設中樞機構這是本席講了好幾次了那第二個部分是健全通報整合的平台跟風險工具那第三 拜託改善第一線人員的待遇跟環境那麼可不可以針對本席今天所講的幾點"},{"start":751.997,"end":770.818,"text":"本席比較關心實務上的一個運作我們法可以一直修但是所有東西如果沒有跟上概念的一個整體配套很多時候你就會空轉好幾年所以可不可以在一個月之內針對本席所談的這幾點給本席一個比較詳盡的一個回應好不好可以嗎 各單位"},{"start":776.226,"end":783.855,"text":"可以嗎 那我要一個一個問嗎那司法院可以嗎 法務部可以嗎衛福部 警政署法務部跟你會手啊會手是說不可以還是可以這個跟法務部比較沒有關係沒關係啦 林委因為你指涉的單位比較多看要哪幾個單位再跟我講一下 好不好好 謝謝我們林倩琪委員的"}]}},{"id":"165244","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165244","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3f5b4e9560a103619906ee7c1e9a76e5a4cf7b889f21dc7b73d997d3b3f5f9fd45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"09:44:55 - 09:56:19","影片長度":"00:11:24","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:44:55+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:56:19+08:00","duration":684,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.076593750000001,"end":6.544718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.8990937500000005,"end":7.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.26534375,"end":54.149093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.259093750000005,"end":52.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.149093750000006,"end":74.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.36159375,"end":71.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.65221875,"end":87.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.75159375000001,"end":87.64596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.64596875000001,"end":87.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.79784375,"end":91.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.13096875000001,"end":89.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.62846875000001,"end":153.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.91409375,"end":162.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.28409375,"end":162.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.33471875,"end":162.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.35159375,"end":162.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.40221875,"end":177.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.40596875,"end":165.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.82596875000002,"end":191.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.20346875,"end":215.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.72721875000002,"end":215.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.74409375000002,"end":215.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.94659375,"end":215.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.96346875,"end":215.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.99721875,"end":216.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.06471875000003,"end":216.08159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.08159375000002,"end":216.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.13221875000002,"end":216.23346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.23346875000001,"end":216.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.43596875,"end":216.46971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.06034375000002,"end":218.15721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.43971875000003,"end":226.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.86534375000002,"end":223.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.91534375,"end":228.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.95721875,"end":232.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.44596875000002,"end":234.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.93096875,"end":237.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.34409375,"end":246.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.36096875,"end":237.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.74346875,"end":247.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.13159375,"end":262.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.97721875,"end":263.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.50034375,"end":263.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.61284375,"end":275.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.97096875,"end":278.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.45596875,"end":278.38409375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.42,"end":29.393,"text":"謝謝主席有請彭主委請彭主委委員長主委好我想那個玉山跟山上營的這個合併到一個段落那過程當中有一些受到外界質疑跟爭議的地方特別是在重訓發布的部分而重訓的發布其實跟投資人的利害相關息息相關"},{"start":30.713,"end":53.993,"text":"那这个部分呢那个是不是有一个可能性来建立一个比较适合的规范因为之前呢中顶有类似的事件也就不论是特许行业或者是一般的上市柜常常会遇到发现这重讯发布不实或是延迟的这个问题那除了这个部分有没有可能制造制作一个新的指引来做一个规范以免影响到这一个投资人的权益"},{"start":54.504,"end":74.464,"text":"謝謝委員就是我們在那個交易所它的重大就是要發重訊裡面上次也提到為什麼會有51款就是每一次的案件呢都提供一個新的新的大家思考的那個重點像這次的話我們也會請交易所針對這次案子有沒有我們看看有沒有什麼可以再把這個東西做一個更明確化的"},{"start":74.984,"end":91.576,"text":"對 有一個比較明確化的指引出來不是時不時當然是判斷會比較清楚但是延不延後然後哪些該弄一定是從投資人的角度全力來做一個最基本的判斷當然這也是我們那個重訓很重要的一個資訊充分的透明跟揭露"},{"start":92.256,"end":106.509,"text":"沒有錯 我覺得對投資人的權益來說非常的關鍵那另外一個部分跟投資人也非常關鍵的之前呢我約莫在一年多前就問過你的部分有些外資用機器人這個高頻交易你當初的回答是說你會去進行調查"},{"start":107.29,"end":127.458,"text":"可是这个传言其实从2020的时候就开始有进行这高频交易进行这不公平的一个交易行为那目前只有券商可以进行申请那现在已经有知道说有一些外资跟券商合作也就是说直接由客户是不是变成是那种变相性的由客户直接下单而不是只有透过法人或券商这是第一个现象"},{"start":128.198,"end":153.065,"text":"那第二個部分呢從事這個高頻交易要用到這個機器人呢這基本上如果沒有這個身份那他是不是就代表違法那另外我們是不是要限制呢這個主機共置的這些券商呢券商本身進行的話不能由客人用機器人來處理否則的話這不公平的交易是存在而這個部分呢後來呢您的調查那這現在呢目前的這樣的交易行為還是存在那怎麼處理 怎麼管理 怎麼面對"},{"start":155.646,"end":177.112,"text":"確實去年委員關心就是說有一些少數的交易人他透過高頻交易或許特別是委員也關心當沖的時候是不是很多高頻交易是不是牽涉到公平性的問題這一點的話確實委員也提到我們也有請交易所去了解這也都在我們現有的監控機制裡面這部分的話"},{"start":178.873,"end":207.472,"text":"現階段我現在一直沒辦法跟委員回答現在的問題是聊起一年多了對 我知道他們有在處理待會的話我就請我們的那個政協局那張局長跟委員再說明一下看他們現在的狀況是如何那局長要來回答的時候順便回答一個問題好了因為上一次我有問到有關於這個開曼群島第三地來台灣進行隔日沖的這個問題的時候也說要去調查也沒有給我任何訊息這個好像在允許短期的這種炒作方式"},{"start":209.053,"end":233.904,"text":"假外資來做短期的炒作方式當初也說要去查 也沒有查到結果這兩題能不能一併回答一下好 謝謝局長 張局長請我先回答您的有關於假外資的問題的查詢問題其實我們現在交易所已經運用AI的方式去追索那可能的問題把它抓出來用AI的方式去了解這種他們的互動方式那結果呢"},{"start":235.203,"end":263.055,"text":"目前交易所還沒有回報我們但是他們有在都沒有任何回報這個已經也很久了局長你至少追蹤一下我們諮詢因為這兩個都沒有回覆所以說這個基本上現在的整個交易方式因為整個金融科技的一個方式手段越來越創新以至於衍生出來不是一種金融商品的增加而是交易行為的不公平懂得運用這些人就懂了一些手法形成整個交易市場"},{"start":272.642,"end":277.115,"text":"我們剛才包括那個議題我們盡快的把這些完整的內容給委員說"}]}},{"id":"17023","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17023","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685456f1a8eac090e91df7d11ac893db3ce914d0d15f34b2c02546e3a43ff75ae965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2025-11-12","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2025-11-12T08:32:30+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T14:07:00+08:00","duration":20070,"影片長度":"05:34:30","委員發言時間":"08:32:30 - 14:07:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1639.31909375,"end":1644.2803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1645.1578437500002,"end":1645.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1646.0015937500002,"end":1648.9715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1648.9715937500002,"end":1649.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1649.73096875,"end":1649.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1650.1022187500002,"end":1677.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1677.15284375,"end":1692.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1692.7284687500003,"end":1736.9747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1737.17721875,"end":1764.9703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1765.61159375,"end":1782.4190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1785.4734687500002,"end":1788.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1789.8947187500003,"end":1801.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1801.2515937500002,"end":1803.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1805.8584687500002,"end":1807.0565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1809.3009687500003,"end":1811.3765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1812.43971875,"end":1812.5072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1812.55784375,"end":1815.8653437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1817.8228437500002,"end":1817.8734687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":1817.8734687500003,"end":1817.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1817.8903437500003,"end":1817.9747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":1817.9747187500002,"end":1817.9915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1817.9915937500002,"end":1818.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1818.3628437500001,"end":1820.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1821.8222187500003,"end":1824.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1825.36596875,"end":1828.2684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1829.5509687500003,"end":1831.6434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1832.8922187500002,"end":1836.5878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1837.88721875,"end":1839.7603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1841.2284687500003,"end":1843.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1844.62034375,"end":1846.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1848.2484687500003,"end":1850.5940937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1852.4503437500002,"end":1855.3697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1855.89284375,"end":1856.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1856.02784375,"end":1856.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1856.31471875,"end":1856.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1857.7322187500001,"end":1859.0822187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1859.25096875,"end":1861.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1863.06471875,"end":1865.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1866.8784687500001,"end":1868.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1870.1859687500003,"end":1872.0253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1873.4090937500002,"end":1875.0628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1876.54784375,"end":1878.5728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1880.6484687500001,"end":1883.1122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1884.4959687500002,"end":1888.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1892.3934687500002,"end":1895.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":1906.63596875,"end":1910.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":1911.3947187500003,"end":1918.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":1918.7184687500003,"end":1929.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":1929.7547187500002,"end":1956.9740937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":1957.4634687500002,"end":2070.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2071.16721875,"end":2104.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2105.6259687500005,"end":2119.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2119.3115937500006,"end":2146.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2146.4297187500006,"end":2157.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2157.5672187500004,"end":2164.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2164.8065937500005,"end":2172.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2172.9403437500005,"end":2269.3640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2269.65096875,"end":2280.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2281.6659687500005,"end":2334.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2334.5184687500005,"end":2346.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2349.30096875,"end":2402.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2402.47409375,"end":2415.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2416.2947187500004,"end":2417.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2418.03284375,"end":2425.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2425.8122187500003,"end":2443.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2443.9022187500004,"end":2445.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2445.67409375,"end":2449.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2450.44971875,"end":2484.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2485.16159375,"end":2486.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2486.79846875,"end":2550.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2553.8428437500006,"end":2555.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2556.7284687500005,"end":2556.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2558.1628437500003,"end":2562.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2562.6853437500004,"end":2587.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2592.3515937500006,"end":2594.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2595.1697187500004,"end":2601.2615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2601.53159375,"end":2603.3709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2603.64096875,"end":2605.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2605.37909375,"end":2607.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2607.5897187500004,"end":2608.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2614.0359687500004,"end":2614.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2614.74471875,"end":2665.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2633.05409375,"end":2633.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2635.82159375,"end":2636.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2652.1228437500004,"end":2652.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2652.2578437500006,"end":2652.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2652.29159375,"end":2652.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2662.5009687500005,"end":2662.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2665.04909375,"end":2665.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2666.1797187500006,"end":2667.6140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2667.88409375,"end":2670.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2668.7784687500007,"end":2669.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2670.3984687500006,"end":2672.7440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2671.81596875,"end":2678.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2675.3259687500004,"end":2675.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2675.9503437500007,"end":2676.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2677.04721875,"end":2730.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2681.56971875,"end":2681.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2690.05784375,"end":2690.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2690.07471875,"end":2690.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2690.1590937500005,"end":2690.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2690.19284375,"end":2690.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2690.2265937500006,"end":2690.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2731.5028437500005,"end":2753.5753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2739.4509687500004,"end":2739.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2739.6872187500003,"end":2739.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2741.00346875,"end":2741.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2741.96534375,"end":2742.9609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2742.9609687500006,"end":2742.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2746.6228437500004,"end":2746.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2746.6397187500006,"end":2747.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2753.54159375,"end":2758.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2755.6003437500003,"end":2756.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2756.4440937500003,"end":2757.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2757.67596875,"end":2758.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2759.6503437500005,"end":2779.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2765.03346875,"end":2766.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2773.9265937500004,"end":2773.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2773.9434687500006,"end":2774.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2778.22971875,"end":2778.9215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2779.02284375,"end":2784.7940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2780.11971875,"end":2781.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2785.0134687500004,"end":2793.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2793.6872187500003,"end":2795.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2793.78846875,"end":2794.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2795.05409375,"end":2807.3897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2796.57284375,"end":2797.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2801.2809687500003,"end":2801.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2802.2090937500006,"end":2803.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2807.35596875,"end":2807.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2807.3897187500006,"end":2833.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2833.8497187500006,"end":2839.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2839.5703437500006,"end":2840.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2841.27471875,"end":2843.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2843.63721875,"end":2844.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2844.10971875,"end":2870.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2870.19846875,"end":2872.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2872.2403437500006,"end":2885.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2882.1797187500006,"end":2883.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2885.94284375,"end":2886.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2886.29721875,"end":2886.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2886.9384687500005,"end":2894.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2894.80221875,"end":2896.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2894.8359687500006,"end":2894.9034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2894.97096875,"end":2897.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2896.96221875,"end":2897.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2897.7722187500003,"end":2900.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2900.1853437500004,"end":2901.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2900.8434687500003,"end":2902.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2902.5984687500004,"end":2902.6153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2902.63221875,"end":2903.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2903.3240937500004,"end":2921.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2907.76221875,"end":2909.1797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2910.0909687500007,"end":2910.4453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2919.55784375,"end":2920.4353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2921.0428437500004,"end":2931.1847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2931.1847187500007,"end":2940.6178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2938.3397187500004,"end":2939.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2939.9765937500006,"end":2940.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2940.9890937500004,"end":2948.8865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2943.55409375,"end":2943.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2944.8365937500002,"end":2945.7478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2948.4140937500006,"end":2971.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2949.3084687500004,"end":2949.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2972.89971875,"end":2973.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2973.87846875,"end":2987.8847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2986.0790937500005,"end":2988.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2988.52596875,"end":2991.6815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2990.6015937500006,"end":2992.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2992.13721875,"end":3005.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2996.11971875,"end":2997.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3003.6628437500003,"end":3006.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3005.6540937500004,"end":3016.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3007.20659375,"end":3007.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3013.0284687500007,"end":3028.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3028.90784375,"end":3036.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3034.9659687500007,"end":3035.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3035.89409375,"end":3035.9278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3035.9278437500006,"end":3035.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3036.8897187500006,"end":3039.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3036.97409375,"end":3036.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3036.9909687500003,"end":3037.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3040.46721875,"end":3054.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3052.98846875,"end":3053.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3053.91659375,"end":3083.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3083.61659375,"end":3088.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3088.2909687500005,"end":3089.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3090.0965937500005,"end":3098.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3091.34534375,"end":3092.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3095.19284375,"end":3095.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3097.0153437500003,"end":3097.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3097.2684687500005,"end":3100.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3099.0234687500006,"end":3104.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3103.7147187500004,"end":3104.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3104.94659375,"end":3118.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3118.8515937500006,"end":3119.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3118.86846875,"end":3119.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3119.71221875,"end":3128.7234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3125.9559687500005,"end":3126.2597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3127.79534375,"end":3129.3815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3128.99346875,"end":3134.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3133.88721875,"end":3143.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3143.52284375,"end":3144.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3144.4678437500006,"end":3144.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3144.67034375,"end":3161.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3160.7353437500005,"end":3161.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3161.8828437500006,"end":3201.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3197.4890937500004,"end":3197.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3201.67409375,"end":3226.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3211.5965937500005,"end":3211.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3212.0859687500006,"end":3212.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3213.50346875,"end":3213.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3215.8153437500005,"end":3216.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3216.57471875,"end":3216.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3226.1090937500003,"end":3242.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3238.6134687500007,"end":3239.1534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3240.3515937500006,"end":3241.6172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3241.88721875,"end":3245.3634687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3246.10596875,"end":3251.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3248.3672187500006,"end":3250.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3250.4765937500006,"end":3254.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3253.8347187500003,"end":3265.6134687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3254.6278437500005,"end":3255.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3257.66534375,"end":3259.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3264.29721875,"end":3269.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3269.61284375,"end":3279.5353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3273.6122187500005,"end":3274.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3275.0465937500003,"end":3275.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3275.08034375,"end":3275.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3277.5272187500004,"end":3277.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3278.7422187500006,"end":3278.9278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3281.17221875,"end":3282.6065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3284.56409375,"end":3286.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3295.3134687500005,"end":3297.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3297.4228437500005,"end":3297.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3303.8522187500002,"end":3304.3415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3304.9997187500003,"end":3312.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3312.64409375,"end":3313.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3314.0615937500006,"end":3321.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3322.11096875,"end":3326.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3326.5828437500004,"end":3327.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3327.7303437500004,"end":3329.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3329.19846875,"end":3332.2697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3332.47221875,"end":3341.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3341.92221875,"end":3349.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3350.54534375,"end":3355.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3356.2997187500005,"end":3361.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3362.4422187500004,"end":3389.8640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3385.2234687500004,"end":3385.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3390.5390937500006,"end":3434.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3434.26221875,"end":3438.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3439.4090937500005,"end":3446.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":3448.53846875,"end":3481.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3453.9215937500003,"end":3454.4278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3480.43221875,"end":3490.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3491.38409375,"end":3491.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3492.05909375,"end":3499.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3500.0240937500002,"end":3515.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3515.38034375,"end":3516.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3517.13534375,"end":3517.4728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3517.6247187500003,"end":3521.9278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3522.01221875,"end":3539.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3540.2878437500003,"end":3554.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3554.1084687500006,"end":3557.1797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3558.3778437500005,"end":3566.8322187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3566.8322187500007,"end":3567.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3567.6084687500006,"end":3618.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3575.59034375,"end":3575.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3586.9303437500002,"end":3587.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3606.1172187500006,"end":3606.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3606.97784375,"end":3607.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3618.5203437500004,"end":3623.5997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3624.9159687500005,"end":3626.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3625.77659375,"end":3630.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3630.31596875,"end":3630.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3630.85596875,"end":3630.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3630.8728437500004,"end":3642.7697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3643.1072187500004,"end":3658.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3658.9190937500007,"end":3659.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3660.3028437500006,"end":3667.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3667.01909375,"end":3667.9472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3667.9472187500005,"end":3668.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3669.41534375,"end":3672.7228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3672.97596875,"end":3722.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3680.1815937500005,"end":3680.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3680.26596875,"end":3680.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3722.03159375,"end":3735.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3722.04846875,"end":3722.0822187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3735.9365937500006,"end":3745.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3743.4122187500006,"end":3743.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3745.6903437500005,"end":3762.0928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3763.0378437500003,"end":3791.9953437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3770.91846875,"end":3771.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3779.23784375,"end":3779.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3786.29159375,"end":3786.3253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3786.3253437500007,"end":3786.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3786.71346875,"end":3786.7472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3786.7472187500007,"end":3786.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3792.43409375,"end":3823.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3813.1228437500004,"end":3814.0509687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3817.02096875,"end":3817.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3823.9228437500005,"end":3826.9940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3827.5847187500003,"end":3845.6072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3846.3497187500006,"end":3865.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3866.31284375,"end":3878.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3878.54721875,"end":3902.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3902.42534375,"end":3904.2647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3904.8047187500006,"end":3918.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3908.26409375,"end":3908.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3918.62534375,"end":3928.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3928.1090937500003,"end":3928.4972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3928.3115937500006,"end":3928.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3928.44659375,"end":3929.6447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3929.9990937500006,"end":3946.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3943.9040937500004,"end":3944.2753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3946.0303437500006,"end":3993.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3994.3434687500003,"end":4019.6053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4004.7384687500007,"end":4005.1603437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4008.29909375,"end":4008.6534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4015.79159375,"end":4016.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4020.9890937500004,"end":4029.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4023.4528437500003,"end":4026.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4027.8740937500006,"end":4028.6503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4030.2703437500004,"end":4042.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4043.14596875,"end":4046.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4046.87534375,"end":4049.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4050.0309687500003,"end":4052.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4052.2078437500004,"end":4054.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4054.5534687500003,"end":4060.2403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4060.44284375,"end":4070.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4071.59721875,"end":4083.2409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4083.9328437500008,"end":4084.7765937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4085.08034375,"end":4130.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4086.0253437500005,"end":4086.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4092.3028437500006,"end":4092.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4130.288468750001,"end":4139.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4139.73846875,"end":4143.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4139.890343749999,"end":4140.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4143.77159375,"end":4147.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4147.956593749999,"end":4179.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4179.19221875,"end":4190.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4190.700968749999,"end":4205.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4195.4090937500005,"end":4195.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4205.63534375,"end":4210.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4209.0947187500005,"end":4210.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4216.57034375,"end":4218.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4218.831593749999,"end":4221.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4227.48846875,"end":4230.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4231.33596875,"end":4232.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4237.79909375,"end":4238.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4238.474093750001,"end":4239.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4239.48659375,"end":4248.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4249.1053437499995,"end":4262.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4262.9090937500005,"end":4267.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4268.106593750001,"end":4269.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4269.62534375,"end":4272.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4273.47284375,"end":4274.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4274.82284375,"end":4275.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4275.9872187500005,"end":4283.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4283.54721875,"end":4289.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4289.9090937500005,"end":4290.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4290.837218750001,"end":4291.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4292.03534375,"end":4324.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4323.76034375,"end":4323.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4325.41409375,"end":4339.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4339.89284375,"end":4342.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4343.58846875,"end":4344.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4344.651593750001,"end":4345.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4346.2040937500005,"end":4346.659718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4347.267218749999,"end":4353.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4349.747843749999,"end":4349.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4353.44346875,"end":4373.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4373.9803437499995,"end":4380.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4377.220343749999,"end":4378.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4380.49409375,"end":4385.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4385.03346875,"end":4389.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4389.20159375,"end":4395.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4395.86721875,"end":4404.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4404.827843749999,"end":4408.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4406.16096875,"end":4407.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4409.198468750001,"end":4410.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4410.970343749999,"end":4413.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4411.18971875,"end":4411.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4414.00784375,"end":4417.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4414.04159375,"end":4414.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4416.80909375,"end":4422.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4422.597218749999,"end":4425.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4426.83284375,"end":4427.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4427.64284375,"end":4427.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4428.655343750001,"end":4428.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4429.85346875,"end":4431.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4431.929093750001,"end":4484.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4485.10221875,"end":4507.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4508.59221875,"end":4513.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4512.692843750001,"end":4514.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4514.515343749999,"end":4518.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4519.442843750001,"end":4547.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4548.552218750001,"end":4579.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4579.214093750001,"end":4590.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4591.88721875,"end":4596.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4597.13534375,"end":4598.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4598.31659375,"end":4600.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4600.45971875,"end":4600.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4600.729718750001,"end":4614.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4615.64721875,"end":4624.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4624.33784375,"end":4625.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4624.89471875,"end":4628.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4629.53534375,"end":4629.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4629.95721875,"end":4631.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4629.99096875,"end":4630.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4630.9697187500005,"end":4631.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4631.03721875,"end":4631.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4631.054093750001,"end":4631.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4631.17221875,"end":4669.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4631.27346875,"end":4631.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4631.96534375,"end":4632.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4632.032843749999,"end":4634.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4654.56096875,"end":4654.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4654.5947187500005,"end":4655.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4659.1678437499995,"end":4659.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4669.022843750001,"end":4674.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4674.96284375,"end":4675.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4675.030343750001,"end":4675.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4675.97534375,"end":4676.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4676.02596875,"end":4676.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4676.97096875,"end":4677.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4677.038468750001,"end":4677.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4677.966593749999,"end":4678.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4678.0340937500005,"end":4678.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4678.962218750001,"end":4679.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4679.02971875,"end":4686.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4679.147843750001,"end":4680.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4680.86909375,"end":4681.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4682.48909375,"end":4682.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4682.97846875,"end":4683.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4683.029093749999,"end":4683.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4686.70784375,"end":4687.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4687.97346875,"end":4694.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4690.84221875,"end":4692.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4694.03159375,"end":4695.972218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4696.56284375,"end":4705.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4699.80284375,"end":4704.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4704.544718749999,"end":4704.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4705.962218750001,"end":4706.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4706.02971875,"end":4706.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4706.046593749999,"end":4726.296593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4707.80159375,"end":4712.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4726.88721875,"end":4761.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4749.4490937499995,"end":4750.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4761.042218750001,"end":4772.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4761.1434687500005,"end":4761.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4761.16034375,"end":4761.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4761.177218750001,"end":4761.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4769.1590937500005,"end":4769.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4769.800343750001,"end":4769.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4769.83409375,"end":4769.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4770.44159375,"end":4771.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4771.55534375,"end":4772.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4772.331593750001,"end":4779.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4772.39909375,"end":4772.517218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4772.517218749999,"end":4773.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4779.53721875,"end":4815.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4815.85221875,"end":4822.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4821.8934687500005,"end":4828.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4827.9178437499995,"end":4827.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4828.79534375,"end":4889.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4835.96721875,"end":4836.220343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4838.295968750001,"end":4838.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4842.48096875,"end":4844.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4876.99034375,"end":4877.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4889.20784375,"end":4890.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4890.8447187500005,"end":4902.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4902.77534375,"end":4911.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4910.335343750001,"end":4913.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4912.46159375,"end":4946.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4917.034718750001,"end":4917.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4920.05534375,"end":4921.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4921.08471875,"end":4921.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4922.8397187499995,"end":4922.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4949.08034375,"end":4952.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4950.39659375,"end":4957.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4954.260968750001,"end":4962.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4957.97346875,"end":4958.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4962.02346875,"end":4962.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4962.968468749999,"end":4963.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4963.03596875,"end":4968.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4966.24221875,"end":4966.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4968.16596875,"end":4968.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4968.85784375,"end":4971.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4971.96284375,"end":4973.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4974.20721875,"end":4982.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4982.03721875,"end":4986.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4986.25596875,"end":4998.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4989.327218750001,"end":4991.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4999.0809687500005,"end":5002.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5000.59971875,"end":5009.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5009.03721875,"end":5016.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5009.7459687499995,"end":5011.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5012.83409375,"end":5012.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5012.850968750001,"end":5013.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5013.9647187499995,"end":5013.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5013.981593750001,"end":5014.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5014.0322187500005,"end":5014.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5016.42846875,"end":5016.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5017.120343750001,"end":5021.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5019.21284375,"end":5019.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5020.84971875,"end":5021.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5021.92971875,"end":5026.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5026.97534375,"end":5032.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5032.8309687500005,"end":5034.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5035.17659375,"end":5038.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5037.606593750001,"end":5041.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5041.302218750001,"end":5043.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5043.47909375,"end":5053.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5053.587218750001,"end":5063.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5060.624093750001,"end":5065.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5066.26034375,"end":5068.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5068.774718750001,"end":5071.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5072.30159375,"end":5080.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5076.503468750001,"end":5077.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5078.663468750001,"end":5089.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5088.19784375,"end":5089.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5089.0584687499995,"end":5089.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5089.109093749999,"end":5089.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5089.497218750001,"end":5089.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5091.43784375,"end":5095.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5101.124093750001,"end":5104.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5109.561593750001,"end":5110.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5110.590968750001,"end":5151.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5151.9178437499995,"end":5156.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5156.69346875,"end":5159.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5159.64659375,"end":5196.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5195.77596875,"end":5198.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5197.767218749999,"end":5219.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5218.70909375,"end":5234.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5234.68971875,"end":5240.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5240.9334687499995,"end":5259.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5260.170968750001,"end":5261.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5261.757218750001,"end":5264.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5262.415343750001,"end":5263.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5264.59221875,"end":5268.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5268.94596875,"end":5276.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5276.6747187500005,"end":5277.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5277.06284375,"end":5277.079718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5277.2822187500005,"end":5302.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5302.5947187500005,"end":5306.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5307.01596875,"end":5316.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5307.218468749999,"end":5307.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5317.03971875,"end":5333.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5333.83034375,"end":5336.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5336.901593750001,"end":5343.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5343.972218750001,"end":5346.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5346.85784375,"end":5347.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5346.90846875,"end":5346.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5347.27971875,"end":5365.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5350.38471875,"end":5350.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5358.130343750001,"end":5358.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5358.16409375,"end":5358.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5365.84221875,"end":5366.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5366.63534375,"end":5368.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5366.669093750001,"end":5370.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5370.550343750001,"end":5372.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5372.96346875,"end":5375.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5376.10221875,"end":5378.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5378.41409375,"end":5380.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5380.32096875,"end":5383.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5380.79346875,"end":5381.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5384.16846875,"end":5386.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5385.974093750001,"end":5387.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5386.98659375,"end":5388.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5388.06659375,"end":5395.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5395.42409375,"end":5396.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5397.415343750001,"end":5398.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5398.259093750001,"end":5400.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5400.30096875,"end":5412.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5410.5272187499995,"end":5433.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5431.485968749999,"end":5432.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5433.122843749999,"end":5440.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5439.180968750001,"end":5439.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5439.687218749999,"end":5439.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5440.210343750001,"end":5456.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5445.39096875,"end":5445.829718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5448.546593749999,"end":5448.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5448.58034375,"end":5448.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5455.920968750001,"end":5455.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5455.954718749999,"end":5456.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5456.5115937499995,"end":5460.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5457.99659375,"end":5516.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5516.384093750001,"end":5520.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5516.9072187500005,"end":5516.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5517.413468750001,"end":5518.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5519.13471875,"end":5519.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5520.231593750001,"end":5564.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5564.747843749999,"end":5565.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5568.15659375,"end":5570.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5569.9959687499995,"end":5571.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5571.85221875,"end":5574.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5572.22346875,"end":5576.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5576.796593749999,"end":5580.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5579.64846875,"end":5582.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5583.71534375,"end":5587.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5588.40659375,"end":5589.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5589.95909375,"end":5594.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5590.04346875,"end":5590.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5592.878468750001,"end":5593.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5595.780968749999,"end":5597.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5597.9072187500005,"end":5601.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5600.0165937500005,"end":5601.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5601.0965937500005,"end":5601.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5602.22721875,"end":5603.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5603.86409375,"end":5620.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5621.9540937500005,"end":5622.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5622.00471875,"end":5625.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5626.42596875,"end":5626.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5628.06284375,"end":5632.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5632.93971875,"end":5638.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5638.93034375,"end":5683.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5683.9697187500005,"end":5692.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5686.062218749999,"end":5686.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5691.68159375,"end":5692.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5693.200343750001,"end":5699.376593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5699.849093750001,"end":5701.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5702.0428437499995,"end":5740.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5714.44596875,"end":5714.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5723.153468750001,"end":5723.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5741.108468750001,"end":5749.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5749.1747187500005,"end":5755.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5751.25034375,"end":5751.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5751.77346875,"end":5751.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5755.064093749999,"end":5805.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5805.790343750001,"end":5809.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5809.97534375,"end":5836.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5826.85034375,"end":5826.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5826.968468749999,"end":5827.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5835.47346875,"end":5836.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5838.983468750001,"end":5839.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5839.00034375,"end":5843.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5852.888468749999,"end":5853.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5853.833468750001,"end":5854.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5855.234093749999,"end":5856.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5861.190968750001,"end":5863.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5864.1103437500005,"end":5904.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5904.91409375,"end":5917.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5917.73909375,"end":5924.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5924.202218750001,"end":5929.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5929.484093749999,"end":5937.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5937.38159375,"end":5937.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5937.921593749999,"end":5938.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5938.61346875,"end":5945.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5946.05534375,"end":5947.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5946.510968750001,"end":5947.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5947.439093750001,"end":5950.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5950.814093750001,"end":5951.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5953.09221875,"end":5970.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5970.608468750001,"end":5970.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5971.485968750001,"end":5976.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5974.00034375,"end":5974.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5976.649718750001,"end":5977.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5976.66659375,"end":5976.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5978.32034375,"end":6003.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6004.341593749999,"end":6006.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6006.48471875,"end":6008.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6009.2353437500005,"end":6009.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6009.25221875,"end":6010.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6010.19721875,"end":6010.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6010.7372187500005,"end":6010.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6010.75409375,"end":6012.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6011.81721875,"end":6029.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6019.157843750001,"end":6019.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6022.38096875,"end":6022.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6029.45159375,"end":6029.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6029.78909375,"end":6029.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6029.95784375,"end":6030.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6030.02534375,"end":6030.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6030.10971875,"end":6030.312218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6030.312218749999,"end":6030.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6030.514718750001,"end":6037.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6030.599093750001,"end":6032.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6034.59846875,"end":6035.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6037.450343750001,"end":6037.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6037.5009687500005,"end":6037.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6037.61909375,"end":6037.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6037.65284375,"end":6037.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6037.99034375,"end":6042.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6041.34846875,"end":6042.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6042.968468749999,"end":6050.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6049.870343750001,"end":6050.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6050.03909375,"end":6051.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6051.135968750001,"end":6053.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6052.38471875,"end":6095.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6055.675343750001,"end":6055.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6095.02784375,"end":6105.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6105.642218750001,"end":6118.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6115.395968750001,"end":6116.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6118.585343750001,"end":6118.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6118.65284375,"end":6119.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6119.31096875,"end":6119.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6119.73284375,"end":6119.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6119.749718749999,"end":6119.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6119.83409375,"end":6132.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6120.1209687499995,"end":6120.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6132.49034375,"end":6136.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6136.9959687499995,"end":6138.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6139.763468749999,"end":6181.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6166.18971875,"end":6167.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6180.80346875,"end":6199.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6194.337218750001,"end":6194.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6199.770968750001,"end":6202.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6202.167218750001,"end":6203.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6202.437218749999,"end":6207.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6205.47471875,"end":6205.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6208.259093750001,"end":6219.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6219.90284375,"end":6239.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6240.25409375,"end":6315.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6317.237843750001,"end":6347.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6344.08596875,"end":6344.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6347.02221875,"end":6347.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6347.140343749999,"end":6347.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6347.44409375,"end":6347.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6347.764718750001,"end":6350.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6351.25784375,"end":6360.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6360.35346875,"end":6397.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6360.370343750001,"end":6362.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6363.272843750001,"end":6363.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6373.46534375,"end":6373.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6395.0653437500005,"end":6395.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6396.263468749999,"end":6398.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6398.08596875,"end":6467.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6468.5897187499995,"end":6469.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6469.97346875,"end":6474.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6474.9178437499995,"end":6474.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6474.968468749999,"end":6501.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6475.03596875,"end":6475.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6483.456593750001,"end":6484.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6501.597218750001,"end":6540.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6501.647843750001,"end":6502.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6507.53721875,"end":6507.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6507.554093750001,"end":6508.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6512.78534375,"end":6512.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6512.802218750001,"end":6514.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6514.0340937500005,"end":6514.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6514.962218750001,"end":6515.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6515.13096875,"end":6515.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6541.32096875,"end":6541.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6541.60784375,"end":6542.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6541.725968750001,"end":6555.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6555.512843750001,"end":6564.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6565.013468749999,"end":6586.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6570.63284375,"end":6571.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6572.30346875,"end":6574.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6586.967843750001,"end":6592.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6589.09409375,"end":6589.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6593.68409375,"end":6607.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6606.15471875,"end":6609.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6608.888468749999,"end":6612.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6612.76971875,"end":6612.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6612.80346875,"end":6613.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6613.00596875,"end":6621.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6622.590968750001,"end":6632.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6632.88471875,"end":6645.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6636.19221875,"end":6636.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6636.42846875,"end":6636.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6645.8447187500005,"end":6645.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6645.86159375,"end":6663.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6664.069718750001,"end":6673.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6674.0428437499995,"end":6677.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6677.87346875,"end":6680.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6680.185343749999,"end":6681.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6681.045968750001,"end":6684.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6684.53909375,"end":6684.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6684.792218750001,"end":6684.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6684.8934687500005,"end":6685.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6685.12971875,"end":6685.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6685.46721875,"end":6710.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6700.33409375,"end":6700.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6710.64471875,"end":6718.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6718.913468750001,"end":6720.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6720.71909375,"end":6726.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6727.587218750001,"end":6736.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6737.17221875,"end":6742.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6742.92659375,"end":6761.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6761.11784375,"end":6761.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6761.30346875,"end":6788.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6777.790343750001,"end":6782.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6782.36346875,"end":6782.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6789.14721875,"end":6800.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6800.31846875,"end":6800.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6800.858468750001,"end":6801.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6801.0272187499995,"end":6811.860968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6812.68784375,"end":6828.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6828.19596875,"end":6830.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6831.0478437500005,"end":6831.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6831.90846875,"end":6832.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6832.819718750001,"end":6848.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6848.96909375,"end":6877.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6875.749718749999,"end":6876.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6877.55534375,"end":6883.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6883.124093750001,"end":6883.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6884.997218750001,"end":6887.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6887.12346875,"end":6889.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6890.16096875,"end":6894.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6902.63159375,"end":6903.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6906.34409375,"end":6909.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6909.38159375,"end":6910.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6916.99221875,"end":6923.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6924.839093750001,"end":6925.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6926.03721875,"end":6926.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6928.686593750001,"end":6929.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6929.513468749999,"end":6930.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6929.800343750001,"end":6930.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6930.272843750001,"end":6930.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6930.458468750001,"end":6931.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6931.622843749999,"end":6934.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6935.048468750001,"end":6936.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6937.27596875,"end":6943.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6943.97534375,"end":6945.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6945.6122187500005,"end":6946.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6946.52346875,"end":6947.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6946.827218750001,"end":6949.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6950.337218750001,"end":6954.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6954.4715937500005,"end":6955.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6955.75409375,"end":6963.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6963.71909375,"end":6967.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6964.51221875,"end":6966.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6967.904093749999,"end":6969.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6970.0809687500005,"end":6972.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6971.68409375,"end":6974.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6975.16034375,"end":6977.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6977.2528437500005,"end":6977.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6977.607218749999,"end":6982.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6978.06284375,"end":6978.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6980.999093750001,"end":7000.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6983.243468750001,"end":6985.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6999.44346875,"end":7003.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7003.5947187500005,"end":7005.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7006.27784375,"end":7011.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7010.88471875,"end":7012.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7012.622843749999,"end":7013.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7013.702843750001,"end":7015.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7016.13284375,"end":7022.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7016.68971875,"end":7018.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7022.59596875,"end":7026.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7024.6884687500005,"end":7045.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7047.19971875,"end":7048.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7048.482218749999,"end":7063.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7069.964093750001,"end":7070.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7073.153468750001,"end":7079.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7079.97096875,"end":7083.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7083.835343750001,"end":7086.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7087.14284375,"end":7088.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7088.72909375,"end":7095.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7094.804093750001,"end":7095.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7096.69409375,"end":7100.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7100.9803437499995,"end":7103.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7102.482218749999,"end":7125.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7104.085343750001,"end":7104.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7125.82034375,"end":7128.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7127.77784375,"end":7131.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7131.96284375,"end":7144.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7144.028468750001,"end":7165.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7148.2303437499995,"end":7149.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7165.79721875,"end":7166.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7166.74221875,"end":7170.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7170.404093749999,"end":7173.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7170.977843750001,"end":7171.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7173.795968750001,"end":7175.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7174.33596875,"end":7190.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7177.71096875,"end":7178.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7185.47346875,"end":7186.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7189.47284375,"end":7193.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7192.64534375,"end":7203.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7193.91096875,"end":7194.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7195.22721875,"end":7196.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7203.968468750001,"end":7212.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7214.36346875,"end":7225.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7225.04534375,"end":7225.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7225.55159375,"end":7238.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7238.86596875,"end":7244.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7245.53159375,"end":7251.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7250.50971875,"end":7252.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7252.349093750001,"end":7252.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7252.83846875,"end":7260.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7253.04096875,"end":7253.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7260.8709687499995,"end":7264.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7264.51596875,"end":7265.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7264.83659375,"end":7269.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7268.16096875,"end":7281.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7278.825968749999,"end":7279.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7281.71159375,"end":7282.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7282.36971875,"end":7282.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7282.84221875,"end":7289.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7288.529093749999,"end":7292.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7292.54534375,"end":7292.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7292.562218750001,"end":7292.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7292.91659375,"end":7295.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7294.907843750001,"end":7297.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7296.1903437500005,"end":7299.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7300.341593749999,"end":7304.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7305.640343750001,"end":7315.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7314.314093750001,"end":7325.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7326.649718750001,"end":7335.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7326.95346875,"end":7328.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7335.745343750001,"end":7339.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7338.25971875,"end":7346.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7346.69721875,"end":7348.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7347.05159375,"end":7347.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7348.1990937499995,"end":7348.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7348.215968750001,"end":7348.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7348.28346875,"end":7348.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7348.772843750001,"end":7348.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7348.80659375,"end":7348.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7348.97534375,"end":7355.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7349.295968750001,"end":7349.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7355.03346875,"end":7355.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7356.180968750001,"end":7362.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7363.31909375,"end":7367.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7367.35221875,"end":7370.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7369.19159375,"end":7369.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7370.96346875,"end":7377.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7373.8153437500005,"end":7374.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7377.44346875,"end":7377.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7377.71346875,"end":7386.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7386.06659375,"end":7388.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7387.23096875,"end":7392.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7393.47471875,"end":7393.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7393.50846875,"end":7393.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7393.575968749999,"end":7393.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7393.8290937500005,"end":7393.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7393.964093750001,"end":7397.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7397.35596875,"end":7406.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7398.35159375,"end":7398.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7406.012843750001,"end":7418.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7407.66659375,"end":7408.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7419.040343750001,"end":7422.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7419.0740937499995,"end":7419.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7419.090968750001,"end":7419.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7422.415343750001,"end":7427.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7427.562218750001,"end":7438.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7435.98284375,"end":7444.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7445.2303437499995,"end":7446.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7446.15846875,"end":7450.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7450.343468750001,"end":7451.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7450.90034375,"end":7451.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7451.339093750001,"end":7451.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7451.40659375,"end":7457.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7452.95909375,"end":7453.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7456.013468749999,"end":7458.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7459.92846875,"end":7465.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7465.7840937500005,"end":7478.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7477.74846875,"end":7488.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7481.3934687500005,"end":7481.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7486.911593750001,"end":7487.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7488.02534375,"end":7488.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7488.042218750001,"end":7489.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7488.835343750001,"end":7489.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7490.30346875,"end":7492.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7491.95721875,"end":7493.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7493.425343750001,"end":7495.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7495.33221875,"end":7495.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7495.7372187500005,"end":7496.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7496.88471875,"end":7497.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7497.05346875,"end":7497.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7497.779093749999,"end":7497.829718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7497.8465937500005,"end":7505.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7505.389718750001,"end":7509.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7509.49034375,"end":7518.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7518.315968750001,"end":7526.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7522.38284375,"end":7523.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7524.9647187499995,"end":7525.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7526.702843750001,"end":7528.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7528.8290937500005,"end":7529.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7529.571593750001,"end":7529.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7530.077843750001,"end":7532.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7533.182843750001,"end":7533.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7535.427218750001,"end":7537.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7538.26221875,"end":7540.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7541.92409375,"end":7542.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7543.71284375,"end":7543.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7543.780343750001,"end":7545.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7545.602843750001,"end":7550.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7549.56846875,"end":7549.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7552.673468750001,"end":7557.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8312.993468750003,"end":8315.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8316.33471875,"end":8317.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8319.777218750001,"end":8321.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8321.97096875,"end":8330.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8331.134093750003,"end":8337.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8338.20471875,"end":8340.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8340.989093750002,"end":8357.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8422.360343750002,"end":8426.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8426.579093750002,"end":8429.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8429.886593750001,"end":8432.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8443.605968750002,"end":8449.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8447.38596875,"end":8448.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8449.84971875,"end":8450.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8458.65846875,"end":8461.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8461.594718750002,"end":8465.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8466.218468750001,"end":8472.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8473.17096875,"end":8474.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8474.655968750001,"end":8478.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8479.07721875,"end":8480.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8480.579093750002,"end":8481.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8482.367843750002,"end":8483.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8483.71784375,"end":8484.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8485.050968750002,"end":8485.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8485.87784375,"end":8493.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8494.028468750003,"end":8496.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8496.509093750003,"end":8497.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8497.94346875,"end":8500.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8501.80784375,"end":8504.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8505.149093750002,"end":8506.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8507.12346875,"end":8507.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8508.102218750002,"end":8508.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8508.91221875,"end":8510.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8510.835968750001,"end":8512.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8512.82721875,"end":8515.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8515.949093750001,"end":8521.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8521.956593750001,"end":8525.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8525.83784375,"end":8527.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8527.761593750001,"end":8530.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8530.44471875,"end":8531.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8531.42346875,"end":8531.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8532.11534375,"end":8534.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8535.203468750002,"end":8535.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8537.464718750001,"end":8539.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8539.87784375,"end":8544.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8544.92346875,"end":8547.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8548.41659375,"end":8551.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8552.196593750003,"end":8558.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8558.81159375,"end":8561.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8561.899718750003,"end":8565.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8566.75971875,"end":8569.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8569.172843750002,"end":8571.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8571.265343750001,"end":8573.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8573.864093750002,"end":8575.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8576.699093750001,"end":8578.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8578.437218750001,"end":8579.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8580.25971875,"end":8595.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8596.08846875,"end":8597.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8597.97846875,"end":8600.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8600.813468750002,"end":8603.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8604.69471875,"end":8605.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8605.605968750002,"end":8606.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8607.124718750001,"end":8608.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8609.925968750002,"end":8611.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8614.38096875,"end":8617.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8617.45221875,"end":8622.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8622.312218750001,"end":8624.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8623.274093750002,"end":8623.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8625.14721875,"end":8628.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8630.445968750002,"end":8639.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8640.21659375,"end":8643.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8643.91221875,"end":8651.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8652.34971875,"end":8658.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8656.450343750003,"end":8656.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8657.26034375,"end":8658.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8658.69471875,"end":8666.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8666.38971875,"end":8667.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8668.364093750002,"end":8668.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8668.38096875,"end":8672.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8668.39784375,"end":8669.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8670.000968750002,"end":8671.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8672.312843750002,"end":8676.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8676.98721875,"end":8683.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8682.285968750002,"end":8685.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8684.597843750002,"end":8685.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8685.40784375,"end":8687.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8687.331593750001,"end":8690.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8688.597218750001,"end":8688.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8690.925968750002,"end":8691.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8692.32659375,"end":8695.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8694.199718750002,"end":8704.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8705.20221875,"end":8710.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8711.31096875,"end":8711.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8711.766593750002,"end":8718.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8711.800343750001,"end":8711.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8711.98596875,"end":8713.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8718.415343750003,"end":8719.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8718.449093750001,"end":8719.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8719.22534375,"end":8721.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8722.00971875,"end":8727.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8727.730343750001,"end":8729.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8729.92409375,"end":8733.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8734.328468750002,"end":8740.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8740.79159375,"end":8743.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8744.200343750003,"end":8751.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8751.55784375,"end":8756.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8757.227843750003,"end":8772.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8773.090343750002,"end":8778.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8773.10721875,"end":8773.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8778.97971875,"end":8782.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8782.624718750001,"end":8788.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8789.13846875,"end":8792.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8793.087218750003,"end":8795.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8795.88846875,"end":8806.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8807.81909375,"end":8809.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8807.852843750003,"end":8808.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8810.40096875,"end":8829.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8824.99784375,"end":8825.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8825.01471875,"end":8825.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8825.06534375,"end":8825.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8825.09909375,"end":8825.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8829.874718750001,"end":8831.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8830.00971875,"end":8830.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8830.17846875,"end":8838.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8834.17784375,"end":8834.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8838.76784375,"end":8840.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8840.067218750002,"end":8845.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8846.46284375,"end":8846.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8847.120968750001,"end":8850.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8851.37346875,"end":8853.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8855.06909375,"end":8858.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8859.27096875,"end":8859.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8860.941593750002,"end":8864.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8865.12659375,"end":8868.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8869.46346875,"end":8885.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8886.777218750001,"end":8889.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8890.30409375,"end":8891.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8891.417843750001,"end":8892.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8893.03784375,"end":8959.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8959.99784375,"end":8960.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8961.044093750003,"end":8970.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8970.578468750002,"end":8971.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8971.844093750002,"end":8972.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8972.65409375,"end":8973.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8974.797218750002,"end":8977.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8978.121593750002,"end":8982.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8983.487843750001,"end":8984.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8984.43284375,"end":8990.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8991.098468750002,"end":9001.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9001.797218750002,"end":9006.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9006.809093750002,"end":9006.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9006.82596875,"end":9016.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9006.99471875,"end":9007.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9016.613468750002,"end":9056.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9057.77159375,"end":9059.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9059.745968750001,"end":9062.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9063.32346875,"end":9065.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9065.58471875,"end":9070.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9070.05659375,"end":9075.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9075.70971875,"end":9079.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9080.434718750003,"end":9111.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9111.602843750003,"end":9115.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9116.597843750002,"end":9120.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9120.192218750002,"end":9123.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9122.234093750001,"end":9131.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9130.469093750002,"end":9137.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9135.46409375,"end":9136.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9138.07971875,"end":9140.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9140.20596875,"end":9140.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9140.23971875,"end":9144.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9144.30659375,"end":9148.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9148.019093750001,"end":9150.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9150.347843750002,"end":9155.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9153.97596875,"end":9198.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9198.37409375,"end":9199.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9199.57221875,"end":9200.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9200.88846875,"end":9203.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9203.47034375,"end":9215.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9216.29534375,"end":9219.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9220.058468750001,"end":9222.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9223.011593750001,"end":9223.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9224.969093750002,"end":9229.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9229.74471875,"end":9232.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9229.812218750001,"end":9230.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9232.765343750001,"end":9236.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9236.832218750002,"end":9239.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9239.02596875,"end":9239.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9239.24534375,"end":9239.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9239.27909375,"end":9240.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9239.97096875,"end":9276.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9276.960968750001,"end":9279.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9279.79596875,"end":9287.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9288.942218750002,"end":9293.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9293.160968750002,"end":9297.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9295.13534375,"end":9296.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9297.008468750002,"end":9305.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9301.024718750003,"end":9302.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9304.855343750001,"end":9313.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9307.11659375,"end":9307.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9312.16221875,"end":9320.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9316.515968750002,"end":9316.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9316.836593750002,"end":9316.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9318.70971875,"end":9319.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9319.418468750002,"end":9320.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9321.696593750003,"end":9322.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9326.370968750001,"end":9327.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9335.36534375,"end":9337.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9337.356593750003,"end":9338.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9343.144718750002,"end":9343.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9343.16159375,"end":9343.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9343.92096875,"end":9350.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9351.04221875,"end":9353.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9354.012218750002,"end":9356.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9357.539093750001,"end":9362.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9362.73659375,"end":9367.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9368.05221875,"end":9369.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9370.44846875,"end":9376.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9376.81034375,"end":9381.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9381.72096875,"end":9386.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9387.57659375,"end":9389.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9390.73221875,"end":9403.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9404.114093750002,"end":9411.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9411.606593750003,"end":9418.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9420.16221875,"end":9431.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9423.73971875,"end":9425.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9427.165343750003,"end":9427.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9431.417843750001,"end":9433.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9434.94471875,"end":9449.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9437.88096875,"end":9439.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9447.550343750001,"end":9450.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9451.11096875,"end":9452.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9452.832218750002,"end":9452.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9452.86596875,"end":9455.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9453.203468750002,"end":9453.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9454.43534375,"end":9459.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9456.359093750001,"end":9456.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9459.531593750002,"end":9462.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9464.08784375,"end":9466.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9466.973468750002,"end":9471.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9471.715343750002,"end":9482.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9482.86971875,"end":9486.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9487.577843750001,"end":9490.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9491.442218750002,"end":9496.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9496.99409375,"end":9499.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9499.49159375,"end":9501.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9502.140968750002,"end":9524.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9524.500343750002,"end":9530.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9532.144718750002,"end":9535.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9534.13596875,"end":9537.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9535.249718750001,"end":9535.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9535.65471875,"end":9537.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9537.86534375,"end":9559.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9560.12346875,"end":9567.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9564.679718750001,"end":9564.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9564.730343750001,"end":9564.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9564.81471875,"end":9564.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9564.848468750002,"end":9564.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9568.03784375,"end":9572.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9573.117218750001,"end":9577.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9578.78721875,"end":9580.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9580.035968750002,"end":9601.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9587.39346875,"end":9590.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9591.426593750002,"end":9602.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9603.070343750001,"end":9605.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9605.618468750003,"end":9607.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9608.031593750002,"end":9609.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9610.461593750002,"end":9611.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9612.098468750002,"end":9615.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9617.987843750001,"end":9619.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9619.65846875,"end":9622.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9623.03346875,"end":9627.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9628.34909375,"end":9634.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9635.352218750002,"end":9641.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9641.950343750003,"end":9648.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9649.76346875,"end":9652.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9652.93596875,"end":9655.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9656.05784375,"end":9657.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9657.863468750002,"end":9660.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9661.035968750002,"end":9662.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9662.925968750002,"end":9669.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9670.35096875,"end":9674.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9675.14346875,"end":9677.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9678.09659375,"end":9680.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9680.61096875,"end":9693.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9694.33034375,"end":9703.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9698.211593750002,"end":9698.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9703.898468750001,"end":9712.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9704.99534375,"end":9709.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9710.51346875,"end":9711.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9712.875968750002,"end":9717.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9717.90471875,"end":9718.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9718.309718750003,"end":9722.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9718.44471875,"end":9723.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9722.76471875,"end":9731.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9733.530968750001,"end":9738.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9739.36971875,"end":9743.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9745.17471875,"end":9746.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9747.250343750002,"end":9748.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9748.769093750001,"end":9750.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9750.96284375,"end":9753.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9754.270343750002,"end":9785.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9786.332843750002,"end":9806.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9804.50721875,"end":9821.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9807.156593750002,"end":9809.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9821.26409375,"end":9834.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9833.81909375,"end":9835.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9835.320968750002,"end":9836.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9835.945343750001,"end":9840.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9841.34534375,"end":9847.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9845.547218750002,"end":9846.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9847.62284375,"end":9849.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9850.91346875,"end":9855.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9856.58346875,"end":9871.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9871.21409375,"end":9875.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9873.05346875,"end":9886.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9882.503468750001,"end":9883.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9887.160968750002,"end":9892.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9892.999718750001,"end":9893.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9893.82659375,"end":9895.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9895.446593750003,"end":9896.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9896.374718750001,"end":9897.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9897.45471875,"end":9898.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9899.36159375,"end":9900.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9901.335968750001,"end":9902.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9903.867218750001,"end":9908.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9909.098468750002,"end":9931.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9931.727843750003,"end":9943.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9945.02534375,"end":9945.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9945.07596875,"end":9945.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9945.531593750002,"end":9945.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9945.852218750002,"end":9952.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9950.745968750001,"end":9951.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9952.281593750002,"end":9952.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9952.500968750002,"end":9953.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9952.56846875,"end":9954.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9953.969093750002,"end":9954.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9954.03659375,"end":9954.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9954.79596875,"end":9954.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9954.89721875,"end":9954.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9954.930968750003,"end":9955.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9955.015343750001,"end":9956.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9957.15846875,"end":9962.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9963.199718750002,"end":9966.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9967.266593750002,"end":9971.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9971.687843750002,"end":9983.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9982.79159375,"end":9982.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9984.141593750002,"end":9986.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9986.234093750001,"end":9987.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9988.32659375,"end":9989.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9990.368468750003,"end":9992.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9993.304718750001,"end":9994.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9994.87409375,"end":9996.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9997.574093750001,"end":9999.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10000.44284375,"end":10010.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10010.027843750002,"end":10019.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10019.37659375,"end":10019.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10019.528468750003,"end":10023.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10023.527843750002,"end":10023.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10023.949718750002,"end":10023.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10025.40096875,"end":10025.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10025.417843750001,"end":10026.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10027.746593750002,"end":10031.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10031.492843750002,"end":10041.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10043.33909375,"end":10046.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10060.04534375,"end":10063.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10060.500968750002,"end":10060.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10063.656593750002,"end":10064.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10068.16221875,"end":10068.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10068.17909375,"end":10068.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10068.60096875,"end":10068.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10068.617843750002,"end":10132.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10068.70221875,"end":10069.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10133.468468750001,"end":10157.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10158.17346875,"end":10239.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10240.692218750002,"end":10257.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10257.68534375,"end":10275.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10275.758468750002,"end":10285.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10279.386593750001,"end":10279.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10286.085968750001,"end":10415.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10415.83784375,"end":10503.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10503.503468750001,"end":10503.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10504.02659375,"end":10553.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10553.672843750002,"end":10573.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10574.125343750002,"end":10602.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10603.184093750002,"end":10613.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10613.477843750003,"end":10653.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10653.15096875,"end":10653.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10653.657218750002,"end":10727.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10681.804718750001,"end":10682.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10727.957843750002,"end":10741.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10741.356593750003,"end":10747.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10747.364093750002,"end":10816.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10816.551593750002,"end":10862.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10862.265968750002,"end":10878.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10878.17909375,"end":10898.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10898.749718750001,"end":10900.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10900.67346875,"end":10910.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10911.49034375,"end":10914.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10914.86534375,"end":10917.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10917.98721875,"end":10918.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10919.370968750001,"end":10921.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10921.699718750002,"end":10921.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10921.952843750001,"end":10922.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10924.24784375,"end":10926.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10927.20096875,"end":10953.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10953.593468750001,"end":10959.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10959.16221875,"end":10961.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10962.28409375,"end":10971.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10972.67909375,"end":10974.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10976.10471875,"end":10977.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11006.58096875,"end":11027.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11027.809718750003,"end":11034.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11034.812843750002,"end":11040.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11040.33096875,"end":11046.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11046.43971875,"end":11051.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11051.367218750001,"end":11052.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11052.734093750001,"end":11055.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11055.41721875,"end":11059.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11059.754093750002,"end":11062.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11063.21346875,"end":11065.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11066.284718750001,"end":11066.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11066.84159375,"end":11073.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11074.722218750001,"end":11079.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11077.55721875,"end":11079.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11079.66659375,"end":11081.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11080.66221875,"end":11086.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11087.344718750002,"end":11089.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11089.437218750001,"end":11092.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11093.01471875,"end":11097.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11098.094093750002,"end":11099.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11100.051593750002,"end":11101.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11101.739093750002,"end":11142.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11143.16721875,"end":11148.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11148.53346875,"end":11148.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11149.52909375,"end":11156.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11157.409718750001,"end":11157.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11157.76409375,"end":11159.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11157.91596875,"end":11158.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11159.755343750003,"end":11159.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11159.789093750001,"end":11160.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11160.177218750003,"end":11162.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11160.51471875,"end":11160.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11160.683468750001,"end":11160.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11160.71721875,"end":11160.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11160.86909375,"end":11160.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11163.231593750003,"end":11166.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11167.19721875,"end":11171.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11171.68596875,"end":11171.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11173.52534375,"end":11173.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11174.63909375,"end":11175.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11174.79096875,"end":11179.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11178.368468750003,"end":11178.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11181.355343750001,"end":11181.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11181.945968750002,"end":11183.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11184.71346875,"end":11185.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11186.805968750003,"end":11188.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11190.50159375,"end":11190.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11194.956593750001,"end":11195.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11199.175343750001,"end":11201.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11203.090343750002,"end":11204.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11205.16596875,"end":11210.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11210.464718750001,"end":11215.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11216.894093750001,"end":11217.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11217.92346875,"end":11219.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11220.20159375,"end":11223.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11223.99846875,"end":11225.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11225.95596875,"end":11228.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11229.26346875,"end":11231.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11233.49909375,"end":11236.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11236.789718750002,"end":11240.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11237.76846875,"end":11238.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11240.063468750002,"end":11242.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11243.219093750002,"end":11246.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11247.04971875,"end":11253.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11255.993468750003,"end":11257.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11258.575343750003,"end":11260.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11260.39784375,"end":11260.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11260.566593750002,"end":11260.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11260.95471875,"end":11260.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11260.97159375,"end":11260.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11260.988468750002,"end":11261.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11261.24159375,"end":11264.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11264.633468750002,"end":11269.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11272.31159375,"end":11274.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11274.977843750003,"end":11275.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11275.079093750002,"end":11276.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11278.352843750003,"end":11282.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11281.74471875,"end":11282.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11282.655968750001,"end":11282.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11282.976593750001,"end":11283.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11283.01034375,"end":11283.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11283.246593750002,"end":11285.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11285.11971875,"end":11287.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11285.136593750001,"end":11285.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11287.33034375,"end":11288.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11290.519718750002,"end":11291.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11294.215343750002,"end":11299.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11299.83471875,"end":11303.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11305.386593750001,"end":11307.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11305.403468750003,"end":11305.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11306.78721875,"end":11307.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11309.031593750002,"end":11310.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11311.12409375,"end":11314.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11318.532218750002,"end":11318.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11318.97096875,"end":11320.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11322.362843750001,"end":11324.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11325.315968750001,"end":11327.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11328.47159375,"end":11339.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11339.676593750002,"end":11342.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11343.051593750002,"end":11343.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11344.097843750002,"end":11345.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11346.13971875,"end":11349.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11350.172843750002,"end":11353.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11353.66596875,"end":11362.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11363.554718750001,"end":11373.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11373.76409375,"end":11377.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11378.92784375,"end":11394.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11396.44409375,"end":11406.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11408.847218750001,"end":11413.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11413.555343750002,"end":11413.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11414.179718750001,"end":11422.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11422.48221875,"end":11425.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11422.49909375,"end":11422.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11427.34221875,"end":11427.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11427.359093750001,"end":11443.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11443.94721875,"end":11446.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11446.79909375,"end":11447.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11448.402218750001,"end":11450.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11451.70971875,"end":11473.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11474.052218750003,"end":11475.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11477.64659375,"end":11485.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11485.493468750003,"end":11490.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11491.14659375,"end":11491.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11493.036593750003,"end":11500.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11501.254718750002,"end":11503.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11504.34284375,"end":11506.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11506.82346875,"end":11510.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11506.840343750002,"end":11507.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11511.312218750001,"end":11511.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11511.97034375,"end":11512.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11512.03784375,"end":11512.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11512.105343750001,"end":11515.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11515.024718750003,"end":11515.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11516.391593750002,"end":11516.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11516.425343750001,"end":11518.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11518.754093750002,"end":11519.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11519.73284375,"end":11522.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11522.820968750002,"end":11525.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11525.976593750001,"end":11526.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11527.259093750003,"end":11528.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11528.895968750003,"end":11531.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11532.203468750002,"end":11537.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11538.66659375,"end":11539.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11539.13909375,"end":11587.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11587.249718750001,"end":11600.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11599.19721875,"end":11612.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11603.48346875,"end":11603.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11613.473468750002,"end":11615.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11616.274718750003,"end":11625.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11627.63159375,"end":11635.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11635.86659375,"end":11639.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11639.528468750003,"end":11651.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11652.269093750001,"end":11652.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11652.285968750002,"end":11652.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11652.30284375,"end":11652.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11652.336593750002,"end":11654.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11654.00721875,"end":11659.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11659.42409375,"end":11662.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11661.22971875,"end":11661.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11662.259093750003,"end":11666.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11662.343468750001,"end":11664.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11667.13596875,"end":11667.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11667.203468750002,"end":11667.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11667.54096875,"end":11667.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11667.574718750002,"end":11667.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11667.844718750002,"end":11669.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11669.19471875,"end":11669.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11670.105968750002,"end":11674.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11671.60784375,"end":11671.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11674.71284375,"end":11678.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11679.066593750002,"end":11681.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11681.817218750002,"end":11685.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11685.52971875,"end":11686.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11687.58846875,"end":11692.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11694.06846875,"end":11702.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11703.45096875,"end":11706.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11707.04534375,"end":11715.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11715.719093750002,"end":11722.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11722.90784375,"end":11731.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11731.851593750001,"end":11753.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11753.164718750002,"end":11753.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11753.18159375,"end":11775.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11775.675968750002,"end":11782.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11782.965968750003,"end":11786.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11788.26471875,"end":11790.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11790.42471875,"end":11792.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11792.21346875,"end":11806.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11806.33784375,"end":11810.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11810.82659375,"end":11810.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11810.87721875,"end":11820.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11811.130343750003,"end":11814.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11816.817218750002,"end":11817.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11821.710968750001,"end":11822.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11824.69784375,"end":11833.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11833.77659375,"end":11835.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11836.797218750002,"end":11837.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11837.99534375,"end":11843.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11844.47534375,"end":11845.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11844.644093750001,"end":11845.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11845.909718750001,"end":11845.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11845.977218750002,"end":11851.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11852.153468750003,"end":11859.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11860.422218750002,"end":11862.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11862.49784375,"end":11864.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11864.03346875,"end":11865.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11865.51846875,"end":11875.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11875.79534375,"end":11880.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11881.44846875,"end":11888.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11888.72159375,"end":11889.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11888.72159375,"end":11891.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11890.746593750002,"end":11892.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11893.14284375,"end":11893.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11894.492843750002,"end":11896.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11896.14659375,"end":11898.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11899.487843750001,"end":11903.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11903.453468750002,"end":11906.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11906.895968750003,"end":11909.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11911.097843750002,"end":11911.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11914.55721875,"end":11916.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11916.98721875,"end":11917.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11918.269718750002,"end":11920.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11921.98221875,"end":11924.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11928.968468750001,"end":11931.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11931.921593750001,"end":11933.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11933.457218750002,"end":11936.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11936.29221875,"end":11937.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11939.987843750001,"end":11943.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11943.41346875,"end":11943.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11943.430343750002,"end":11953.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11943.61596875,"end":11943.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11943.88596875,"end":11943.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11943.953468750002,"end":11944.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11944.08846875,"end":11944.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11945.57346875,"end":11946.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11954.449718750002,"end":11958.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11958.68534375,"end":11961.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11961.621593750002,"end":11962.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11963.29221875,"end":11971.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11971.76346875,"end":11972.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11972.55659375,"end":11978.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11978.192843750003,"end":11980.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11980.63971875,"end":11982.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11982.884093750003,"end":11987.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11987.828468750002,"end":11991.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11991.33846875,"end":11993.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11994.49409375,"end":11996.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11996.789093750001,"end":12004.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12005.125343750002,"end":12015.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12016.02659375,"end":12024.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12025.51034375,"end":12027.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12028.04159375,"end":12037.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12037.930343750002,"end":12048.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12048.98346875,"end":12061.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12058.41659375,"end":12058.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12059.68221875,"end":12059.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12059.78346875,"end":12060.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12061.555343750002,"end":12079.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12079.864718750003,"end":12092.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12092.200343750003,"end":12111.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12112.112843750001,"end":12114.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12114.25596875,"end":12122.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12116.09534375,"end":12116.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12122.085968750001,"end":12123.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12124.17846875,"end":12128.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12128.009093750003,"end":12133.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12129.08909375,"end":12129.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12133.965968750003,"end":12134.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12134.472218750001,"end":12140.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12137.72909375,"end":12138.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12140.14221875,"end":12145.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12142.605968750002,"end":12147.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12147.297218750002,"end":12164.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12164.83034375,"end":12169.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12169.825343750003,"end":12187.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12187.274093750002,"end":12189.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12190.04159375,"end":12211.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12212.23221875,"end":12213.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12214.274093750002,"end":12237.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12241.34159375,"end":12244.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12243.535343750002,"end":12247.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12247.703468750002,"end":12259.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12255.43221875,"end":12257.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12259.566593750002,"end":12260.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12260.140343750001,"end":12264.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12262.18221875,"end":12266.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12266.789093750001,"end":12286.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12287.511593750001,"end":12288.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12288.372218750003,"end":12293.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12293.890343750001,"end":12299.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12299.89784375,"end":12301.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12302.00721875,"end":12314.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12315.76034375,"end":12320.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12320.940968750001,"end":12322.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12322.172843750002,"end":12325.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12326.35784375,"end":12330.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12331.184093750002,"end":12339.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12339.520343750002,"end":12342.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12343.08096875,"end":12347.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12348.14346875,"end":12353.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12353.57721875,"end":12357.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12357.711593750002,"end":12360.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12359.399093750002,"end":12359.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12360.32721875,"end":12374.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12374.789093750001,"end":12377.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12376.898468750001,"end":12384.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12384.37409375,"end":12384.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12384.711593750002,"end":12393.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12394.49909375,"end":12395.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12396.574718750002,"end":12412.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12412.926593750002,"end":12433.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12430.56096875,"end":12430.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12430.594718750002,"end":12448.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12448.296593750001,"end":12451.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12451.519718750002,"end":12452.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12452.27909375,"end":12455.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12452.785343750002,"end":12453.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12454.742843750002,"end":12463.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12463.821593750003,"end":12464.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12465.120968750001,"end":12468.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12465.32346875,"end":12465.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12468.344093750002,"end":12468.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12468.36096875,"end":12468.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12469.20471875,"end":12474.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12473.49096875,"end":12473.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12475.144718750002,"end":12477.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12477.50721875,"end":12494.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12491.83409375,"end":12492.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12495.023468750001,"end":12504.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12504.895343750002,"end":12510.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12510.582218750002,"end":12537.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12537.480968750002,"end":12537.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12537.531593750002,"end":12549.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12538.172843750002,"end":12538.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12551.301593750002,"end":12556.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12556.43159375,"end":12556.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12556.465343750002,"end":12556.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12556.65096875,"end":12556.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12556.684718750003,"end":12556.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12556.718468750001,"end":12556.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12557.882843750001,"end":12562.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12564.97034375,"end":12567.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12570.47159375,"end":12570.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12570.52221875,"end":12572.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12572.699093750001,"end":12574.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12576.074093750001,"end":12579.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12580.32659375,"end":12580.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12580.343468750001,"end":12580.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12580.664093750001,"end":12582.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12583.667843750001,"end":12585.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12586.266593750002,"end":12590.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12591.632843750001,"end":12592.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12594.012218750002,"end":12595.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12596.18909375,"end":12597.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12598.09596875,"end":12599.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12599.83409375,"end":12600.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12601.032218750002,"end":12601.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12602.46659375,"end":12604.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12606.668468750002,"end":12606.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12607.765343750001,"end":12608.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12609.351593750001,"end":12610.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12612.203468750002,"end":12613.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12617.65409375,"end":12621.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12621.67034375,"end":12624.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12625.011593750001,"end":12638.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12638.410343750002,"end":12655.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12655.53846875,"end":12663.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12664.617218750001,"end":12670.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12670.77659375,"end":12673.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12674.03346875,"end":12675.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12675.636593750001,"end":12676.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12676.93596875,"end":12681.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12682.504718750002,"end":12695.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12695.380343750003,"end":12697.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12698.367218750001,"end":12701.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12700.949093750001,"end":12700.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12700.98284375,"end":12701.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12701.08409375,"end":12701.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12701.25284375,"end":12701.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12701.30346875,"end":12706.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12706.19721875,"end":12706.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12706.281593750002,"end":12706.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12706.534718750001,"end":12742.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12743.06909375,"end":12758.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12758.813468750002,"end":12759.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12760.51784375,"end":12764.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12764.68596875,"end":12769.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12769.731593750003,"end":12770.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12770.76096875,"end":12771.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12771.63846875,"end":12772.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12772.80284375,"end":12773.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12773.07284375,"end":12774.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12774.97971875,"end":12775.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12775.01346875,"end":12775.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12775.064093750003,"end":12775.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12775.114718750003,"end":12779.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12780.07596875,"end":12784.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12784.581593750001,"end":12788.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12788.496593750002,"end":12791.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12792.985343750002,"end":12793.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12794.706593750001,"end":12799.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12795.094718750002,"end":12795.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12797.91284375,"end":12812.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12814.36596875,"end":12819.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12819.25971875,"end":12821.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12820.407218750002,"end":12824.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12824.507843750001,"end":12826.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12826.43159375,"end":12829.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12829.840343750002,"end":12835.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12831.156593750002,"end":12831.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12832.439093750003,"end":12832.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12834.71721875,"end":12838.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12837.434093750002,"end":12838.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12838.51409375,"end":12838.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12838.88534375,"end":12840.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12840.454718750003,"end":12840.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12841.19721875,"end":12845.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12848.79096875,"end":12854.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12855.11909375,"end":12857.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12858.29159375,"end":12863.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12863.792843750001,"end":12864.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12865.46346875,"end":12867.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12868.09596875,"end":12869.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12870.120968750001,"end":12876.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12876.617843750002,"end":12877.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12881.849093750003,"end":12887.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12887.384093750003,"end":12889.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12890.843468750001,"end":12891.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12891.46784375,"end":12892.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12893.03721875,"end":12894.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12894.79221875,"end":12897.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12897.79596875,"end":12899.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12899.652218750001,"end":12904.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12900.58034375,"end":12901.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12904.27596875,"end":12907.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12907.90409375,"end":12912.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12912.325343750003,"end":12912.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12912.848468750002,"end":12913.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12913.28721875,"end":12913.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12913.945343750001,"end":12914.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12915.41346875,"end":12916.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12916.40909375,"end":12921.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12921.57284375,"end":12921.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12921.62346875,"end":12922.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12921.707843750002,"end":12924.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12924.52596875,"end":12925.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12925.62284375,"end":12934.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12934.634093750003,"end":12945.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12945.636593750001,"end":12947.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12948.25221875,"end":12958.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12959.997218750003,"end":12963.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12963.06846875,"end":12964.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12964.367843750002,"end":12966.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12967.87784375,"end":12974.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12967.92846875,"end":12968.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12968.50221875,"end":12969.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12975.79221875,"end":12980.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12981.64784375,"end":12983.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12984.246593750002,"end":12985.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12986.659718750001,"end":12988.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12988.97159375,"end":12989.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12990.65909375,"end":12991.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12993.54471875,"end":12994.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12996.362843750001,"end":12998.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12998.45534375,"end":13000.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13002.285968750002,"end":13005.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13005.441593750002,"end":13006.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13007.21346875,"end":13009.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13009.677218750003,"end":13012.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13015.043468750002,"end":13017.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13018.03034375,"end":13018.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13019.59971875,"end":13021.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13021.472843750002,"end":13023.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13024.223468750002,"end":13027.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13028.15534375,"end":13032.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13033.757843750001,"end":13035.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13036.69409375,"end":13038.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13039.579718750003,"end":13043.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13045.907843750003,"end":13046.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13046.093468750001,"end":13047.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13047.66284375,"end":13059.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13060.403468750003,"end":13063.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13064.36909375,"end":13065.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13066.157843750003,"end":13066.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13067.085968750001,"end":13068.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13069.39784375,"end":13073.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13073.29596875,"end":13076.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13076.56971875,"end":13078.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13079.10096875,"end":13088.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13088.95596875,"end":13090.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13091.53784375,"end":13097.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13098.355343750001,"end":13099.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13099.82346875,"end":13100.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13100.97096875,"end":13101.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13102.152218750001,"end":13104.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13105.45971875,"end":13107.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13107.61971875,"end":13108.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13109.172218750002,"end":13110.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13110.77534375,"end":13112.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13112.985968750003,"end":13113.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13113.77909375,"end":13115.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13115.90534375,"end":13116.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13117.440968750001,"end":13118.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13121.524718750003,"end":13122.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13123.195343750001,"end":13127.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13125.43971875,"end":13126.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13127.39721875,"end":13129.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13129.540343750003,"end":13130.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13130.940968750001,"end":13131.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13131.902843750002,"end":13132.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13132.88159375,"end":13133.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13133.370968750001,"end":13133.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13133.792843750001,"end":13134.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13137.30284375,"end":13138.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13138.973468750002,"end":13140.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13140.77909375,"end":13143.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13143.63096875,"end":13144.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13144.137218750002,"end":13144.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13144.829093750002,"end":13144.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13146.837218750003,"end":13147.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13152.827843750001,"end":13152.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13154.430968750003,"end":13159.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13159.56096875,"end":13159.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13159.695968750002,"end":13160.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13162.024718750003,"end":13195.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13165.602218750002,"end":13166.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13195.285343750002,"end":13195.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13196.129093750002,"end":13210.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13210.439093750003,"end":13216.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13217.99909375,"end":13222.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13222.386593750001,"end":13223.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13224.293468750002,"end":13237.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13238.24909375,"end":13245.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13246.602218750002,"end":13247.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13247.73284375,"end":13248.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13248.35721875,"end":13258.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13258.27971875,"end":13260.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13262.059718750003,"end":13279.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13279.84596875,"end":13299.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13301.024093750002,"end":13309.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13303.487843750001,"end":13303.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13310.32221875,"end":13311.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13312.144718750002,"end":13313.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13314.23721875,"end":13314.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13316.464718750001,"end":13318.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13319.19846875,"end":13326.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13327.602218750002,"end":13336.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13337.305343750002,"end":13339.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13340.32596875,"end":13358.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13359.090968750003,"end":13360.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13360.761593750001,"end":13394.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13394.22471875,"end":13407.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13407.707843750002,"end":13412.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13412.68596875,"end":13428.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13415.41971875,"end":13415.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13419.13221875,"end":13420.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13427.77221875,"end":13434.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13431.079718750003,"end":13431.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13434.589718750001,"end":13439.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13437.660968750002,"end":13437.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13437.74534375,"end":13437.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13437.880343750003,"end":13437.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13437.964718750001,"end":13439.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13439.04471875,"end":13439.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13439.972843750002,"end":13440.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13440.023468750001,"end":13440.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13440.360968750003,"end":13440.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13440.95159375,"end":13447.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13449.16971875,"end":13449.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13455.312218750001,"end":13456.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13457.320343750001,"end":13457.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13457.82659375,"end":13458.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13464.67784375,"end":13481.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13481.805968750003,"end":13482.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13482.379718750002,"end":13497.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13482.970343750003,"end":13483.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13497.364718750003,"end":13498.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13498.96784375,"end":13501.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13502.882843750001,"end":13502.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13502.899718750003,"end":13509.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13508.417843750001,"end":13508.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13509.76784375,"end":13519.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13510.071593750003,"end":13510.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13519.96034375,"end":13543.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13522.356593750003,"end":13522.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13527.75659375,"end":13527.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13527.97596875,"end":13528.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13539.130343750003,"end":13539.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13539.14721875,"end":13539.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13542.285968750002,"end":13543.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13546.09971875,"end":13566.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13547.753468750001,"end":13547.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13550.352218750002,"end":13550.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13561.118468750003,"end":13561.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13567.024718750003,"end":13571.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13572.340343750002,"end":13574.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13574.348468750002,"end":13574.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13574.399093750002,"end":13574.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13574.68596875,"end":13574.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13574.753468750001,"end":13576.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13576.035968750002,"end":13579.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13579.782218750002,"end":13590.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13590.008468750002,"end":13590.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13590.51471875,"end":13590.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13590.548468750003,"end":13611.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13591.30784375,"end":13591.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13592.438468750002,"end":13592.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13595.222843750002,"end":13595.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13611.96284375,"end":13612.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13612.03034375,"end":13612.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13612.97534375,"end":13620.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13613.65034375,"end":13613.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13620.535343750002,"end":13626.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13623.285968750002,"end":13623.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13626.964718750001,"end":13641.595343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13627.94346875,"end":13628.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13631.11596875,"end":13631.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13631.132843750001,"end":13631.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13631.31846875,"end":13631.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13640.12721875,"end":13640.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13641.004718750002,"end":13666.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13656.37784375,"end":13657.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13659.65159375,"end":13660.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13662.030968750001,"end":13662.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13662.06471875,"end":13662.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13667.363468750002,"end":13686.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13672.392218750003,"end":13672.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13673.370968750001,"end":13673.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13686.870968750001,"end":13687.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13688.59221875,"end":13689.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13690.347218750001,"end":13706.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13706.024093750002,"end":13706.142218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13706.142218750003,"end":13707.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13707.036593750003,"end":13726.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13708.724093750003,"end":13708.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13713.398468750001,"end":13713.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13714.984718750002,"end":13717.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13718.74784375,"end":13719.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13725.109718750002,"end":13729.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13729.024718750003,"end":13740.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13730.492843750002,"end":13731.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13740.972218750001,"end":13757.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13757.644718750002,"end":13768.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13766.38596875,"end":13766.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13768.54596875,"end":13773.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13773.675968750002,"end":13780.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13779.71721875,"end":13785.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13780.66221875,"end":13781.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13782.332843750002,"end":13783.767218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13785.657218750002,"end":13788.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13788.964718750001,"end":13798.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13789.11659375,"end":13790.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13799.76471875,"end":13809.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13800.18659375,"end":13800.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13800.321593750003,"end":13800.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13800.96284375,"end":13801.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13801.03034375,"end":13801.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13801.55346875,"end":13801.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13810.09221875,"end":13819.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13816.656593750002,"end":13817.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13819.99784375,"end":13821.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13822.37721875,"end":13825.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13826.258468750002,"end":13836.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13827.08534375,"end":13828.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13836.704093750002,"end":13837.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13837.902218750001,"end":13838.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13838.47596875,"end":13841.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13841.665343750003,"end":13841.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13841.699093750001,"end":13852.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13853.71409375,"end":13860.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13860.582218750002,"end":13862.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13862.35409375,"end":13864.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13864.024718750003,"end":13865.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13865.121593750002,"end":13865.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13865.35784375,"end":13865.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13866.015968750002,"end":13873.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13873.32284375,"end":13873.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13875.22971875,"end":13875.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13876.630343750003,"end":13880.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13880.76471875,"end":13882.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13882.08096875,"end":13882.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13882.165343750003,"end":13882.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13882.688468750002,"end":13883.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13883.734718750002,"end":13896.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13894.433468750001,"end":13895.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13896.171593750001,"end":13896.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13896.20534375,"end":13896.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13896.222218750001,"end":13900.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13897.909718750001,"end":13898.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13900.59284375,"end":13900.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13900.609718750002,"end":13900.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13900.862843750001,"end":13900.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13900.99784375,"end":13907.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13908.08534375,"end":13908.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13908.11909375,"end":13908.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13908.405968750001,"end":13908.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13908.422843750002,"end":13908.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13908.574718750002,"end":13911.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13908.827843750001,"end":13909.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13909.03034375,"end":13909.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13909.941593750002,"end":13911.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13911.93284375,"end":13911.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13911.949718750002,"end":13913.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13912.55721875,"end":13912.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13913.637218750002,"end":13914.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13913.687843750002,"end":13914.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13914.430343750002,"end":13924.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13915.375343750002,"end":13915.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13920.235343750002,"end":13920.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13925.36534375,"end":13930.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13931.11971875,"end":13934.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13931.676593750002,"end":13932.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13933.532843750003,"end":13934.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13934.22471875,"end":13937.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13937.093468750001,"end":13937.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13937.24534375,"end":13937.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13937.312843750002,"end":13945.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13944.61971875,"end":13944.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13944.99096875,"end":13945.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13946.661593750003,"end":13950.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13950.94784375,"end":13984.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13956.719093750002,"end":13957.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13957.54596875,"end":13958.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13958.49096875,"end":13958.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13958.76096875,"end":13959.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13959.70596875,"end":13959.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13962.000968750002,"end":13962.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13980.05721875,"end":13980.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13983.077843750001,"end":13983.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13984.782218750002,"end":13984.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13984.815968750001,"end":14000.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13993.945343750001,"end":13995.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14001.336593750002,"end":14001.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14002.56846875,"end":14007.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14006.399093750002,"end":14006.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14007.023468750001,"end":14010.314093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14010.48284375,"end":14010.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14010.820343750001,"end":14012.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14012.49096875,"end":14012.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14012.980343750001,"end":14013.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14013.317843750003,"end":14025.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14025.704093750002,"end":14026.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14026.024718750003,"end":14027.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14027.712218750003,"end":14028.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14028.690968750001,"end":14048.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14049.109718750002,"end":14051.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14049.86909375,"end":14051.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14051.472218750001,"end":14054.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14054.003468750001,"end":14060.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14060.31471875,"end":14060.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14060.702843750001,"end":14060.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14060.922218750002,"end":14076.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14070.000968750002,"end":14070.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14071.43534375,"end":14072.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14076.04221875,"end":14076.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14077.45971875,"end":14084.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14088.344093750002,"end":14090.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14090.824718750002,"end":14092.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14096.562218750001,"end":14097.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14097.220343750003,"end":14133.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14133.923468750003,"end":14134.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14134.78409375,"end":14190.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14154.71346875,"end":14155.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14174.01846875,"end":14174.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14182.45596875,"end":14183.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14190.539093750001,"end":14190.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14190.640343750001,"end":14203.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14204.02221875,"end":14205.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14205.743468750003,"end":14246.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14213.55659375,"end":14213.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14223.394718750002,"end":14223.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14223.411593750003,"end":14223.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14224.84596875,"end":14225.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14231.882843750001,"end":14232.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14233.38471875,"end":14233.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14238.210968750001,"end":14238.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14238.261593750001,"end":14238.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14238.683468750001,"end":14238.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14239.375343750002,"end":14239.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14239.88159375,"end":14239.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14239.98284375,"end":14240.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14244.37034375,"end":14245.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14245.56846875,"end":14316.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14248.52159375,"end":14250.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14286.33846875,"end":14287.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14316.679718750001,"end":14338.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14338.414718750002,"end":14352.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14352.89346875,"end":14376.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14352.99471875,"end":14353.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14378.492843750002,"end":14392.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14381.05784375,"end":14381.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14382.05346875,"end":14383.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14386.59284375,"end":14386.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14386.609718750002,"end":14387.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14387.520968750003,"end":14387.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14387.53784375,"end":14388.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14391.570968750002,"end":14419.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14421.23721875,"end":14435.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14428.03784375,"end":14428.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14428.08846875,"end":14428.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14428.51034375,"end":14428.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14430.805343750002,"end":14431.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14431.024718750003,"end":14431.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14435.024093750002,"end":14454.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14455.08846875,"end":14455.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14455.274093750002,"end":14457.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14456.55659375,"end":14456.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14457.434093750002,"end":14477.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14477.414093750001,"end":14480.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14479.995968750001,"end":14480.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14481.329093750002,"end":14497.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14488.922843750002,"end":14489.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14489.26034375,"end":14489.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14494.356593750003,"end":14494.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14497.292843750001,"end":14497.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14497.95096875,"end":14498.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14498.74409375,"end":14513.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14506.55721875,"end":14506.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14506.574093750001,"end":14507.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14511.265343750001,"end":14511.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14513.442218750002,"end":14513.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14514.235343750002,"end":14518.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14518.57221875,"end":14523.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14523.33096875,"end":14526.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14525.524718750003,"end":14544.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14530.40159375,"end":14530.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14533.70909375,"end":14533.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14533.844093750002,"end":14533.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14542.88909375,"end":14545.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14545.15034375,"end":14561.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14545.99409375,"end":14546.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14556.270968750003,"end":14556.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14558.19471875,"end":14558.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14561.164718750002,"end":14570.564093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14571.036593750003,"end":14576.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14576.43659375,"end":14607.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14581.48221875,"end":14581.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14588.097218750001,"end":14588.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14588.50221875,"end":14588.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14607.80721875,"end":14613.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14612.937218750001,"end":14613.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14613.56159375,"end":14645.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14622.15096875,"end":14622.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14622.859718750002,"end":14622.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14632.17471875,"end":14632.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14641.35471875,"end":14641.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14645.18534375,"end":14647.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14646.83909375,"end":14655.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14654.247218750003,"end":14655.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14656.37346875,"end":14659.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14659.95096875,"end":14662.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14670.480968750002,"end":14673.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14673.94034375,"end":14674.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14679.74534375,"end":14680.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14680.909718750001,"end":14686.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14686.95096875,"end":14689.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14690.258468750002,"end":14711.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14711.571593750003,"end":14715.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14715.23346875,"end":14768.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14769.95909375,"end":14770.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14770.65096875,"end":14772.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14772.034718750001,"end":14784.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14784.42096875,"end":14792.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14792.301593750002,"end":14799.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14800.367843750002,"end":14810.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14810.914718750002,"end":14814.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14814.52596875,"end":14833.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14833.898468750001,"end":14846.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14846.993468750003,"end":14848.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14849.32221875,"end":14853.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14854.266593750002,"end":14857.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14858.35034375,"end":14866.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14867.969093750002,"end":14871.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14871.63096875,"end":14874.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14875.664093750001,"end":14877.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14878.02659375,"end":14890.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14892.167843750001,"end":14897.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14898.597218750001,"end":14899.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14900.132843750001,"end":14905.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14906.96721875,"end":14908.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14909.684093750002,"end":14926.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14927.622218750003,"end":14928.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14928.65159375,"end":14932.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14932.65096875,"end":14954.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14955.38159375,"end":14956.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14957.406593750002,"end":14958.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14958.75659375,"end":14960.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14960.39346875,"end":14960.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14961.422843750002,"end":14962.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14963.009093750003,"end":14964.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14964.409718750001,"end":14971.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14973.35346875,"end":14976.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14976.660968750002,"end":14978.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14978.280968750001,"end":14979.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14980.187843750002,"end":15004.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15005.027843750002,"end":15005.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15007.778468750003,"end":15014.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15008.031593750002,"end":15008.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15015.625343750002,"end":15018.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15018.966593750003,"end":15022.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15019.08471875,"end":15019.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15019.23659375,"end":15019.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15022.375343750002,"end":15023.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15023.55659375,"end":15023.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15023.860343750002,"end":15025.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15025.125968750002,"end":15026.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15026.35784375,"end":15027.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15027.859718750002,"end":15029.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15029.344718750002,"end":15031.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15031.251593750003,"end":15031.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15031.454093750002,"end":15031.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15032.348468750002,"end":15034.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15035.082218750002,"end":15040.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15042.152843750002,"end":15046.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15047.384093750003,"end":15053.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15054.640343750001,"end":15055.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15056.445968750002,"end":15057.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15058.04909375,"end":15060.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15062.250968750002,"end":15065.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15064.69784375,"end":15065.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15065.74409375,"end":15066.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15067.44846875,"end":15089.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15089.925968750002,"end":15107.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15109.298468750003,"end":15125.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15126.49409375,"end":15129.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15131.050343750001,"end":15137.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15139.16721875,"end":15158.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15158.792843750001,"end":15161.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15161.391593750002,"end":15163.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15164.26034375,"end":15165.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15166.26846875,"end":15174.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15175.347218750001,"end":15180.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15181.067843750003,"end":15204.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15205.907843750003,"end":15214.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15214.581593750001,"end":15215.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15216.758468750002,"end":15218.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15221.601593750001,"end":15222.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15224.31846875,"end":15226.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15226.91721875,"end":15231.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15231.827843750001,"end":15236.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15237.075968750003,"end":15242.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15242.813468750002,"end":15248.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15249.310343750003,"end":15252.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15253.05659375,"end":15253.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15254.38971875,"end":15256.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15258.60846875,"end":15261.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15261.81471875,"end":15269.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15269.712218750003,"end":15270.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15271.905968750001,"end":15275.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15277.019093750001,"end":15278.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15281.91284375,"end":15285.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15285.65909375,"end":15287.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15287.262218750002,"end":15289.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15289.40534375,"end":15295.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15298.298468750003,"end":15300.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15300.863468750002,"end":15303.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15305.01471875,"end":15315.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15315.49409375,"end":15320.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15320.860343750002,"end":15325.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15327.67784375,"end":15330.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15330.816593750002,"end":15333.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15335.457218750002,"end":15347.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15348.484718750002,"end":15353.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15354.171593750001,"end":15372.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15373.004093750002,"end":15382.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15382.53846875,"end":15386.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15387.297218750002,"end":15394.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15394.907843750003,"end":15402.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15404.762843750003,"end":15408.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15408.812843750002,"end":15413.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15412.812218750001,"end":15417.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15416.38971875,"end":15423.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15423.831593750001,"end":15424.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15424.03409375,"end":15424.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15424.067843750003,"end":15424.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15424.08471875,"end":15424.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15424.70909375,"end":15424.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15424.860968750003,"end":15424.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15424.97909375,"end":15431.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15431.847218750001,"end":15436.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15436.386593750001,"end":15442.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15443.69346875,"end":15445.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15445.735343750002,"end":15446.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15448.688468750002,"end":15449.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15451.574093750001,"end":15454.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15455.10096875,"end":15461.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15462.019718750002,"end":15467.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15467.68971875,"end":15470.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15470.575343750003,"end":15475.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15476.07659375,"end":15477.595343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15479.586593750002,"end":15483.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15484.649093750002,"end":15494.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15498.047843750002,"end":15498.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15499.347218750001,"end":15500.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15500.376593750003,"end":15500.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15500.39346875,"end":15500.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15500.562218750001,"end":15507.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15500.59596875,"end":15502.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15502.03034375,"end":15502.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15509.050343750001,"end":15510.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15510.315968750001,"end":15514.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15515.90159375,"end":15515.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15515.935343750003,"end":15515.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15515.985968750003,"end":15516.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15516.00284375,"end":15517.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15517.69034375,"end":15518.517218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15518.719718750002,"end":15520.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15521.672843750002,"end":15524.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15525.85784375,"end":15536.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15537.585968750001,"end":15539.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15540.690968750001,"end":15554.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15554.91659375,"end":15557.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15558.34221875,"end":15562.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15566.93159375,"end":15567.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15568.922843750002,"end":15570.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15571.454093750002,"end":15581.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15584.042843750001,"end":15588.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15589.30784375,"end":15590.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15591.282218750002,"end":15592.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15593.273468750001,"end":15598.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15598.605968750002,"end":15599.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15599.63534375,"end":15601.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15603.870968750001,"end":15605.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15603.95534375,"end":15603.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15603.989093750002,"end":15604.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15606.216593750003,"end":15611.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15611.262218750002,"end":15614.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15614.535968750002,"end":15619.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15619.497218750003,"end":15626.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15626.753468750001,"end":15631.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15631.883468750002,"end":15636.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15637.097843750002,"end":15638.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15639.34221875,"end":15645.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15645.923468750003,"end":15649.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15649.804718750001,"end":15662.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15662.91659375,"end":15668.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15668.755343750003,"end":15671.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15670.35846875,"end":15672.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15671.99534375,"end":15673.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15673.176593750002,"end":15676.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15676.63596875,"end":15692.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15677.15909375,"end":15678.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15690.777218750001,"end":15693.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15693.274718750003,"end":15693.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15693.51096875,"end":15693.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15693.831593750001,"end":15695.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15695.232218750003,"end":15711.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15711.938468750002,"end":15713.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15713.102843750003,"end":15715.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15715.532843750003,"end":15717.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15718.38471875,"end":15725.657843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15726.704093750002,"end":15729.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15728.99909375,"end":15735.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15735.52971875,"end":15738.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15735.563468750002,"end":15749.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15750.81846875,"end":15751.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15751.30784375,"end":15752.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15752.10096875,"end":15759.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15757.36596875,"end":15757.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15757.973468750002,"end":15758.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15760.09971875,"end":15761.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15761.567843750003,"end":15763.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15763.89659375,"end":15773.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15772.587218750003,"end":15776.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15776.92409375,"end":15780.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15782.138468750003,"end":15788.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15783.20159375,"end":15783.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15783.218468750001,"end":15790.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15790.32284375,"end":15796.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15798.456593750001,"end":15799.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15802.050968750002,"end":15803.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15803.97471875,"end":15807.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15807.82221875,"end":15809.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15808.530968750001,"end":15814.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15809.35784375,"end":15809.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15815.230343750001,"end":15836.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15836.93159375,"end":15842.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15842.500343750002,"end":15853.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15853.536593750003,"end":15856.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15856.87784375,"end":15858.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15858.599093750003,"end":15861.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15862.429718750001,"end":15865.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15865.46721875,"end":15867.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15865.484093750001,"end":15865.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15868.285343750002,"end":15872.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15872.605343750001,"end":15875.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15875.676593750002,"end":15877.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15878.258468750002,"end":15881.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15881.59971875,"end":15881.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15882.51096875,"end":15885.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15885.98721875,"end":15887.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15888.079718750003,"end":15895.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15888.113468750002,"end":15889.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15889.24409375,"end":15889.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15896.044718750003,"end":15896.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15896.719718750002,"end":15900.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15909.81471875,"end":15910.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15910.962218750003,"end":15911.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15919.93971875,"end":15931.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15931.49909375,"end":15939.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15939.19409375,"end":15943.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15943.547843750002,"end":15958.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15960.70971875,"end":15961.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15961.688468750002,"end":15962.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15962.02596875,"end":15962.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15962.363468750002,"end":15962.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15962.380343750003,"end":15962.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15962.414093750001,"end":15962.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15962.92034375,"end":15963.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15963.274718750003,"end":15966.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15966.801593750002,"end":15974.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15975.15471875,"end":15979.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15981.415343750003,"end":15983.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15984.18284375,"end":15985.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15985.195343750001,"end":15985.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15986.460968750001,"end":15987.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15987.743468750003,"end":15991.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15992.56971875,"end":15994.341593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15994.493468750003,"end":16011.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16012.094093750002,"end":16015.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16016.211593750002,"end":16017.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16017.899093750002,"end":16018.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16019.60346875,"end":16021.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16021.493468750003,"end":16021.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16022.08409375,"end":16030.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16030.53846875,"end":16030.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16031.078468750002,"end":16031.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16031.820968750002,"end":16031.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16031.972843750002,"end":16034.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16032.00659375,"end":16032.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16034.554718750001,"end":16034.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16035.145343750002,"end":16041.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16041.422843750002,"end":16060.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16061.74034375,"end":16062.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16063.242218750001,"end":16083.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16084.26846875,"end":16101.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16102.03784375,"end":16102.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16102.105343750001,"end":16108.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16108.73721875,"end":16111.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16112.044718750003,"end":16115.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16115.082218750002,"end":16134.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16133.83034375,"end":16153.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16153.97909375,"end":16154.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16154.704718750003,"end":16154.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16154.789093750001,"end":16154.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16154.92409375,"end":16167.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16155.56534375,"end":16155.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16166.348468750002,"end":16205.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16206.105968750002,"end":16214.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16210.155968750001,"end":16210.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16214.50971875,"end":16224.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16226.575343750003,"end":16229.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16229.849093750003,"end":16234.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16234.33784375,"end":16240.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16236.531593750002,"end":16236.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16236.88596875,"end":16236.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16238.067218750002,"end":16238.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16238.08409375,"end":16238.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16238.438468750002,"end":16238.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16239.062843750002,"end":16239.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16239.94034375,"end":16240.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16241.070968750002,"end":16250.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16242.960968750001,"end":16243.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16250.74034375,"end":16250.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16250.841593750003,"end":16256.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16256.59596875,"end":16257.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16258.08096875,"end":16261.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16261.77659375,"end":16266.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16266.434093750002,"end":16266.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16266.552218750003,"end":16266.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16266.636593750001,"end":16269.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16269.404093750003,"end":16269.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16269.72471875,"end":16305.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16306.613468750002,"end":16320.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16320.315968750001,"end":16320.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16320.34971875,"end":16337.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16320.434093750002,"end":16320.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16336.87034375,"end":16348.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16345.628468750001,"end":16345.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16348.26096875,"end":16385.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16386.719093749998,"end":16391.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16387.46159375,"end":16387.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16391.342843749997,"end":16394.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16392.77721875,"end":16404.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16398.97034375,"end":16399.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16404.69096875,"end":16418.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16409.989718750003,"end":16410.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16418.39346875,"end":16418.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16422.49409375,"end":16423.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16425.64971875,"end":16428.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16434.22221875,"end":16436.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16438.879718750002,"end":16439.639093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16440.685343750003,"end":16441.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16443.233468749997,"end":16445.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16445.39346875,"end":16454.320343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16455.012218750002,"end":16466.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16466.031593749998,"end":16466.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16466.419718750003,"end":16482.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16482.062843749998,"end":16486.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16482.552218750003,"end":16482.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16486.07909375,"end":16486.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16486.95659375,"end":16489.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16487.327843749998,"end":16504.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16504.709093750003,"end":16522.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16524.334718750004,"end":16534.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16534.49346875,"end":16534.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16535.26971875,"end":16558.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16548.060968750004,"end":16548.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16548.22971875,"end":16548.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16548.87096875,"end":16549.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16549.17471875,"end":16549.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16550.153468750003,"end":16550.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16550.406593749998,"end":16550.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16555.82346875,"end":16587.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16588.18971875,"end":16589.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16590.569093750004,"end":16603.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16604.355968750002,"end":16608.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16609.48596875,"end":16611.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16612.35471875,"end":16615.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16615.797218749998,"end":16619.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16619.84721875,"end":16633.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16634.41034375,"end":16635.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16636.72221875,"end":16647.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16647.960968749998,"end":16659.554093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16660.24596875,"end":16662.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16662.03471875,"end":16662.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16662.490343750003,"end":16662.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16662.591593750003,"end":16666.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16662.608468749997,"end":16662.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16666.54034375,"end":16680.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16678.45409375,"end":16679.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16680.445343749998,"end":16709.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16709.757218749997,"end":16711.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16711.81596875,"end":16712.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16712.676593750002,"end":16712.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16712.96346875,"end":16713.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16713.030968749998,"end":16713.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16713.89159375,"end":16715.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16715.039093749998,"end":16734.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16734.46221875,"end":16743.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16744.38471875,"end":16746.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16746.69659375,"end":16765.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16755.505343750003,"end":16755.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16755.97784375,"end":16756.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16756.028468750003,"end":16757.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16757.02409375,"end":16757.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16757.59784375,"end":16757.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16757.614718750003,"end":16757.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16757.68221875,"end":16757.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16757.76659375,"end":16757.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16766.03534375,"end":16774.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16774.32096875,"end":16774.523468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16774.590968750003,"end":16774.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16774.96221875,"end":16775.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16775.046593749998,"end":16775.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16775.06346875,"end":16775.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16775.856593750003,"end":16776.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16776.97034375,"end":16783.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16777.037843750004,"end":16778.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16783.92284375,"end":16788.529718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16788.98534375,"end":16794.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16794.030968749998,"end":16820.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16806.07971875,"end":16806.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16806.19784375,"end":16806.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16806.332843750002,"end":16806.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16821.233468749997,"end":16847.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16847.03534375,"end":16847.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16847.355968750002,"end":16847.609093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16847.609093749998,"end":16855.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16856.83971875,"end":16860.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16861.56471875,"end":16865.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16865.26034375,"end":16865.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16865.86784375,"end":16875.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16867.03221875,"end":16868.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16875.975968749997,"end":16876.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16875.99284375,"end":16876.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16876.63409375,"end":16876.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16876.66784375,"end":16876.920968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16876.95471875,"end":16882.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16878.287843750004,"end":16878.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16881.966593750003,"end":16882.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16882.32096875,"end":16882.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16882.35471875,"end":16883.670968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16883.670968749997,"end":16890.420968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16884.44721875,"end":16884.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16890.640343749998,"end":16899.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16900.17471875,"end":16905.507218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16907.32971875,"end":16909.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16909.692218750002,"end":16923.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16918.669718750003,"end":16919.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16923.023468749998,"end":16935.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16935.29159375,"end":16949.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16949.348468750002,"end":16955.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16952.942843750003,"end":16954.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16955.609093749998,"end":16968.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16955.895968750003,"end":16956.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16967.96159375,"end":17021.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17021.57346875,"end":17030.382218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17030.63534375,"end":17034.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":17034.02721875,"end":17055.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17058.68159375,"end":17059.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17059.896593750003,"end":17060.959718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17061.246593750002,"end":17065.397843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17076.63659375,"end":17081.007218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17085.850343750004,"end":17092.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17086.069718749997,"end":17086.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17092.600343750004,"end":17093.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17094.55784375,"end":17097.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17097.460343749997,"end":17100.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17101.442843750003,"end":17102.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17103.60284375,"end":17108.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17109.10409375,"end":17113.170968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17113.694093750004,"end":17115.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17115.719093749998,"end":17116.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17117.355968750002,"end":17118.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17118.739718750003,"end":17121.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17121.76034375,"end":17122.047218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17122.90784375,"end":17124.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17125.25346875,"end":17128.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17129.320343749998,"end":17133.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17134.41659375,"end":17138.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17139.225968749997,"end":17142.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17143.140968749998,"end":17144.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17144.710343749997,"end":17145.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17146.11096875,"end":17147.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17148.64221875,"end":17151.359093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17151.61221875,"end":17152.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17153.114093750002,"end":17154.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17155.69596875,"end":17157.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17159.39159375,"end":17160.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17160.99471875,"end":17164.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17165.55096875,"end":17168.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17168.80784375,"end":17171.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17172.48659375,"end":17173.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17174.207843750002,"end":17176.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17177.14409375,"end":17178.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17178.81471875,"end":17180.569718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17181.092843749997,"end":17182.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17182.864718750003,"end":17184.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17185.193468750003,"end":17186.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17187.16784375,"end":17188.990343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17190.01971875,"end":17193.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17195.335343749997,"end":17196.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17197.529093750003,"end":17201.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17203.09784375,"end":17203.334093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17204.11034375,"end":17205.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17205.764093750004,"end":17210.624093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17211.130343750003,"end":17213.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17214.33659375,"end":17214.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17218.04909375,"end":17220.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17220.732218750003,"end":17221.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17222.35221875,"end":17223.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17223.34784375,"end":17226.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17227.11096875,"end":17228.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17228.764718749997,"end":17230.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17231.78534375,"end":17233.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17234.350343750004,"end":17236.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17238.012218750002,"end":17240.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17240.62784375,"end":17241.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17242.365968750004,"end":17244.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17245.06596875,"end":17245.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17246.33159375,"end":17246.601593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17247.023468749998,"end":17247.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17248.82909375,"end":17250.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17250.719093749998,"end":17252.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17253.48659375,"end":17255.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17255.967218750004,"end":17256.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17258.160968750002,"end":17259.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17260.01721875,"end":17261.265968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17261.92409375,"end":17263.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17265.349718750003,"end":17267.577218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17268.03284375,"end":17269.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17269.60221875,"end":17271.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17271.390968749998,"end":17272.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17272.89284375,"end":17274.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17275.491593749997,"end":17277.179093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17277.76971875,"end":17278.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17278.90034375,"end":17280.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17280.942218750002,"end":17284.452218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17285.36346875,"end":17287.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17287.97909375,"end":17289.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17290.18971875,"end":17292.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17293.514093750004,"end":17293.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17295.825968750003,"end":17296.382843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17296.973468750002,"end":17298.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17298.272843749997,"end":17302.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17302.93034375,"end":17304.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17305.07346875,"end":17306.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17306.42346875,"end":17307.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17307.773468749998,"end":17308.937843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17309.325968750003,"end":17310.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17310.574718750002,"end":17311.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17311.857218750003,"end":17313.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17314.523468749998,"end":17314.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17314.54034375,"end":17315.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17315.58659375,"end":17315.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17316.413468749997,"end":17326.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17326.099718750003,"end":17326.538468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17326.538468749997,"end":17326.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17327.483468749997,"end":17327.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17327.500343749998,"end":17333.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17333.895968750003,"end":17335.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17336.51159375,"end":17343.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17344.07159375,"end":17344.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17345.79284375,"end":17347.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17347.277843750002,"end":17347.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17348.32409375,"end":17350.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17350.703468749998,"end":17351.648468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17352.593468749998,"end":17356.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17356.62659375,"end":17358.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17358.719093749998,"end":17360.609093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17361.317843750003,"end":17362.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17363.730968750002,"end":17368.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17366.414093749998,"end":17367.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17369.38409375,"end":17371.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17372.33721875,"end":17383.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17383.137218750002,"end":17383.170968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17384.419718750003,"end":17384.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17384.453468749998,"end":17386.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17386.05659375,"end":17388.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17386.07346875,"end":17386.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17386.61346875,"end":17386.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17386.934093750002,"end":17390.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17389.077218749997,"end":17389.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17390.57909375,"end":17390.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17390.59596875,"end":17392.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17391.827843749998,"end":17391.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17392.570343749998,"end":17394.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17395.067843750003,"end":17401.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17404.585343749997,"end":17407.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17408.061593749997,"end":17412.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17413.07346875,"end":17414.811593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17415.435968750004,"end":17416.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17417.91659375,"end":17419.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17420.02596875,"end":17422.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17423.58659375,"end":17429.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17430.33659375,"end":17431.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17432.86784375,"end":17434.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17434.77471875,"end":17436.867218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17437.62659375,"end":17438.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17439.53346875,"end":17440.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17442.28409375,"end":17444.781593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17445.67596875,"end":17446.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17447.44784375,"end":17448.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17448.679718749998,"end":17455.514093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17456.22284375,"end":17458.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17458.73721875,"end":17460.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17459.091593750003,"end":17461.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17461.48784375,"end":17466.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17461.55534375,"end":17462.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17462.702843749998,"end":17462.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17465.200343750003,"end":17465.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17465.217218750004,"end":17465.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17467.545968749997,"end":17470.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17471.241593749997,"end":17479.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17479.39221875,"end":17481.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17481.974093750003,"end":17488.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17489.044718750003,"end":17491.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17491.559093750002,"end":17492.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17491.64346875,"end":17492.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17492.740343750003,"end":17515.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17493.668468750002,"end":17498.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17515.335968749998,"end":17517.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17517.90096875,"end":17526.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17527.16534375,"end":17528.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17529.257843749998,"end":17533.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17533.29096875,"end":17534.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17535.18096875,"end":17536.952843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17537.442218750002,"end":17539.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17540.17596875,"end":17540.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17540.90159375,"end":17541.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17542.25159375,"end":17543.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17545.710968749998,"end":17555.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17557.489718750003,"end":17559.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17559.22784375,"end":17560.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17560.08846875,"end":17564.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":17564.999093749997,"end":17569.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17571.90096875,"end":17579.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17589.73784375,"end":17591.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17592.13409375,"end":17592.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17602.37721875,"end":17602.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17602.984718749998,"end":17616.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17616.484718749998,"end":17618.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17618.762843750003,"end":17621.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17621.46284375,"end":17624.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17625.344093749998,"end":17626.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17626.997843750003,"end":17629.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17630.10284375,"end":17671.514093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17671.750343749998,"end":17704.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17677.521593750003,"end":17677.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17683.647218750004,"end":17683.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17684.01846875,"end":17684.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17704.35284375,"end":17704.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17704.437218749998,"end":17704.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17704.605968750002,"end":17705.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17704.724093750003,"end":17705.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":17705.027843750002,"end":17705.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17705.044718750003,"end":17705.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":17705.19659375,"end":17705.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":17705.770343750002,"end":17726.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17722.59471875,"end":17722.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17726.475968749997,"end":17726.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17727.15096875,"end":17738.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17738.87909375,"end":17745.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17745.966593750003,"end":17755.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17755.85534375,"end":17765.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17766.14909375,"end":17767.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17767.600343750004,"end":17768.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17769.490343750003,"end":17774.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17774.451593750004,"end":17786.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17786.145968750003,"end":17789.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17789.80784375,"end":17792.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17793.36846875,"end":17803.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17803.020968750003,"end":17803.257218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17803.257218749997,"end":17803.797218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17803.442843750003,"end":17806.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17806.716593750003,"end":17807.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17807.121593750002,"end":17810.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17810.496593750002,"end":17813.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17814.107843750004,"end":17837.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":17823.996593750002,"end":17824.350968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17837.69909375,"end":17840.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17841.58034375,"end":17848.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17844.685343750003,"end":17845.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17849.039093749998,"end":17856.936593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17854.13534375,"end":17854.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17857.020968750003,"end":17866.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17865.94784375,"end":17866.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17866.302218750003,"end":17873.187218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17872.529093750003,"end":17875.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17873.32221875,"end":17875.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17875.76909375,"end":17897.234093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17897.858468749997,"end":17906.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17902.63409375,"end":17903.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17905.131593750004,"end":17908.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17906.835968749998,"end":17907.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17908.270343750002,"end":17912.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17912.843468749998,"end":17923.069718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17914.277843750002,"end":17914.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17920.302218750003,"end":17920.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17921.97284375,"end":17927.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17926.950968750003,"end":17932.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17932.030343749997,"end":17932.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17932.70534375,"end":17942.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17943.505343750003,"end":17944.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17945.59784375,"end":17962.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17950.069718749997,"end":17952.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17952.297218749998,"end":17952.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17955.435968750004,"end":17955.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17955.46971875,"end":17955.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17960.76846875,"end":17961.359093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17961.527843750002,"end":17964.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17963.60346875,"end":17967.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17965.139093750004,"end":17965.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17966.89409375,"end":18002.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18003.05721875,"end":18030.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18031.137218750002,"end":18045.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18045.97034375,"end":18084.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18085.609718749998,"end":18088.545968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18087.93846875,"end":18098.130968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18098.50221875,"end":18114.280343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18107.429093749997,"end":18107.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18107.44596875,"end":18107.749718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18107.749718749998,"end":18107.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18113.335343749997,"end":18118.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18119.460968749998,"end":18129.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18129.349718750003,"end":18148.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18136.656593749998,"end":18136.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18136.97721875,"end":18137.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18137.61846875,"end":18137.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18144.06471875,"end":18144.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18145.97159375,"end":18146.663468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18146.68034375,"end":18155.303468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18150.40971875,"end":18150.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18152.468468749998,"end":18152.890343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18153.26159375,"end":18154.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18155.826593750004,"end":18157.733468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18159.100343750004,"end":18160.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18161.209718750004,"end":18166.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18174.77721875,"end":18176.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18176.802218750003,"end":18177.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18178.793468750002,"end":18180.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18181.122218750003,"end":18182.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18182.826593750004,"end":18184.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18185.999093749997,"end":18186.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18186.640343749998,"end":18195.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18196.61346875,"end":18200.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18200.005343750003,"end":18201.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18201.13596875,"end":18201.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18202.114718750003,"end":18202.350968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18203.24534375,"end":18205.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18205.624718749998,"end":18208.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18207.919718750003,"end":18208.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18208.91534375,"end":18209.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18209.35409375,"end":18214.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18213.319718749997,"end":18218.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18216.137843750003,"end":18216.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18216.84659375,"end":18218.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18218.39909375,"end":18218.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18219.006593750004,"end":18221.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18222.044093750003,"end":18223.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18223.19159375,"end":18227.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18228.10221875,"end":18231.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18232.422218749998,"end":18233.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18234.295343750004,"end":18236.100968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18236.303468750004,"end":18237.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18240.37034375,"end":18240.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18240.97784375,"end":18241.264718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18241.43346875,"end":18254.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18254.61284375,"end":18268.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18269.327843749998,"end":18270.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18270.74534375,"end":18276.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18276.786593750003,"end":18282.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18282.65909375,"end":18285.561593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18286.405343749997,"end":18287.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18287.046593749998,"end":18288.615968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18289.037843750004,"end":18290.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18290.89409375,"end":18311.177843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18312.139718749997,"end":18319.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18319.075343750003,"end":18319.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18319.46346875,"end":18330.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18330.93846875,"end":18336.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18336.13596875,"end":18341.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18336.152843750002,"end":18336.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18336.473468750002,"end":18336.625343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18342.480968750002,"end":18345.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18344.87721875,"end":18344.944718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18345.012218750002,"end":18345.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18345.40034375,"end":18347.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18345.990968750004,"end":18350.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18347.880968750003,"end":18349.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18349.365968750004,"end":18360.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18358.37721875,"end":18361.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18361.95471875,"end":18387.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18370.61159375,"end":18371.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18387.537218750003,"end":18393.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18394.489718750003,"end":18403.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18404.15909375,"end":18429.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18430.163468749997,"end":18436.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18437.757218749997,"end":18439.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18440.069093750004,"end":18446.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18446.97096875,"end":18461.922218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18462.090968750003,"end":18463.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18464.217218750004,"end":18469.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18469.684718750003,"end":18472.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18471.55784375,"end":18474.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18475.57409375,"end":18478.577843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18479.100968749997,"end":18482.459093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18481.88534375,"end":18481.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18482.459093750003,"end":18482.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18482.71221875,"end":18483.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18485.37846875,"end":18496.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18496.161593750003,"end":18511.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18499.19909375,"end":18499.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18511.652843750002,"end":18540.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18539.496593750002,"end":18539.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18540.660968750002,"end":18549.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18549.672218749998,"end":18552.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18553.90784375,"end":18554.295968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18554.734718749998,"end":18557.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18558.24471875,"end":18558.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18559.27409375,"end":18563.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18564.69096875,"end":18566.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18566.850968749997,"end":18571.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18572.38596875,"end":18579.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18580.50284375,"end":18581.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18582.20721875,"end":18583.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18584.772218750004,"end":18585.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18586.00409375,"end":18586.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18587.168468750002,"end":18590.459093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18590.982218750003,"end":18593.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18594.10409375,"end":18597.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18598.896593750003,"end":18599.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18598.913468749997,"end":18600.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18599.99346875,"end":18602.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18602.085968749998,"end":18602.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18603.16596875,"end":18603.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18603.68909375,"end":18604.397843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18604.380968750003,"end":18610.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18610.725968749997,"end":18612.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18612.801593750002,"end":18618.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18618.89346875,"end":18622.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18623.11221875,"end":18627.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18628.022843749997,"end":18628.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18628.79909375,"end":18634.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18634.19909375,"end":18653.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18654.246593750002,"end":18671.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18673.568468750003,"end":18676.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18676.47096875,"end":18679.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18679.187843749998,"end":18680.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18679.86284375,"end":18684.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18683.01846875,"end":18683.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18684.80721875,"end":18689.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18691.101593749998,"end":18692.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18691.422218749998,"end":18692.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18693.936593749997,"end":18696.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18695.65784375,"end":18699.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18696.467843749997,"end":18698.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18700.07909375,"end":18703.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18703.99409375,"end":18704.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18705.05721875,"end":18721.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18721.965968750003,"end":18729.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18730.217843749997,"end":18732.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18733.474718750003,"end":18734.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18735.53346875,"end":18737.912843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18738.57096875,"end":18739.499093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18740.07284375,"end":18742.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18743.22846875,"end":18745.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18745.523468749998,"end":18751.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18751.092218750004,"end":18751.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18751.193468750003,"end":18756.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18757.184093750002,"end":18763.545968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18763.832843750002,"end":18767.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18767.984093749998,"end":18770.093468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18770.802218750003,"end":18779.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18779.91471875,"end":18785.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18785.567843750003,"end":18787.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18788.132843749998,"end":18789.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18789.803468750004,"end":18789.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18789.820343749998,"end":18790.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18790.49534375,"end":18794.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18794.57909375,"end":18795.389093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18794.68034375,"end":18798.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18797.78534375,"end":18800.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18802.122218750003,"end":18832.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18833.172218749998,"end":18835.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18837.10409375,"end":18838.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18839.078468749998,"end":18850.047218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18843.01034375,"end":18843.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18850.26659375,"end":18851.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18852.240968750004,"end":18854.350343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18854.60346875,"end":18856.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18855.599093750003,"end":18858.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18857.843468749998,"end":18858.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18858.61971875,"end":18883.679093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18883.965968750003,"end":18889.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18889.53471875,"end":18892.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18892.724093750003,"end":18894.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18894.69846875,"end":18896.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18896.67284375,"end":18897.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18898.15784375,"end":18898.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18899.170343750004,"end":18901.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18901.802843750003,"end":18905.093468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18905.53221875,"end":18910.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18910.746593750002,"end":18933.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18933.882218749997,"end":18934.287218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18938.75909375,"end":18942.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18950.57159375,"end":18952.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":18952.71471875,"end":18954.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18953.10284375,"end":18953.187218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18953.23784375,"end":18953.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18953.355968750002,"end":18953.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18953.65971875,"end":18956.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":18956.39346875,"end":18959.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":18960.71346875,"end":18969.842843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18960.764093750004,"end":18961.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":18970.07909375,"end":18976.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":18976.997843750003,"end":18979.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":18979.748468750004,"end":18988.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":18988.624718749998,"end":18993.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":18993.670343750004,"end":19000.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19001.382218749997,"end":19003.592843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19003.96409375,"end":19016.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19014.08909375,"end":19014.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19017.26159375,"end":19019.522843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19020.974093750003,"end":19022.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19023.218468749998,"end":19024.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19024.63596875,"end":19025.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19024.770968750003,"end":19028.382218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19032.33096875,"end":19036.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19038.287843750004,"end":19042.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19039.570343749998,"end":19039.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19043.012843750003,"end":19044.413468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19044.936593750004,"end":19047.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19047.585968749998,"end":19047.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19047.855968750002,"end":19050.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19050.539093749998,"end":19050.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19050.58971875,"end":19054.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19050.606593750003,"end":19050.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19054.757843749998,"end":19054.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19054.97721875,"end":19055.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19055.027843750002,"end":19055.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19055.145968750003,"end":19056.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19056.023468749998,"end":19062.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19061.23784375,"end":19061.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19062.975968749997,"end":19063.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19063.161593750003,"end":19063.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19063.95471875,"end":19068.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19068.780968749998,"end":19069.827218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19069.57409375,"end":19090.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19091.15721875,"end":19096.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19098.278468750003,"end":19104.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19104.04971875,"end":19104.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19104.06659375,"end":19105.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19106.15909375,"end":19117.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19110.24284375,"end":19110.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19111.01909375,"end":19111.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19117.75221875,"end":19120.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19120.553468750004,"end":19127.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19128.029093750003,"end":19133.429093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19133.715968750003,"end":19140.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19140.803468750004,"end":19168.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19168.832843750002,"end":19175.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19175.835968749998,"end":19177.844093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19178.249093750004,"end":19202.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19202.380343750003,"end":19202.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19203.004718750002,"end":19209.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19209.045968750004,"end":19210.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19210.075343750003,"end":19211.374718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19211.374718749998,"end":19211.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19211.475968749997,"end":19211.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19211.71221875,"end":19223.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19211.72909375,"end":19211.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19214.02409375,"end":19214.125343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19218.006593750004,"end":19218.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19218.107843750004,"end":19218.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19224.48659375,"end":19247.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19247.318468750003,"end":19247.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19248.01034375,"end":19260.835343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19261.94909375,"end":19267.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19264.34534375,"end":19265.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19267.51784375,"end":19267.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19267.787843750004,"end":19267.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19267.804718749998,"end":19268.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19268.59784375,"end":19270.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19268.614718750003,"end":19271.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19272.124718749998,"end":19276.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19276.36034375,"end":19283.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19283.24534375,"end":19294.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19283.32971875,"end":19283.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19294.41659375,"end":19332.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19304.271593750003,"end":19304.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19314.12659375,"end":19315.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19318.36221875,"end":19319.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19319.999093750004,"end":19320.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19333.33034375,"end":19333.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19334.07284375,"end":19341.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19341.075968750003,"end":19341.818468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19341.818468750003,"end":19342.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19342.560968750004,"end":19372.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19350.036593750003,"end":19350.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19351.58909375,"end":19351.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19356.584093750003,"end":19359.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19372.64909375,"end":19384.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19374.809093750002,"end":19374.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19376.108468750004,"end":19376.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19379.382218749997,"end":19381.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":19384.832843750002,"end":19403.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19399.88534375,"end":19399.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19399.90221875,"end":19402.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19404.559718750003,"end":19405.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19405.79159375,"end":19405.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19408.795343750004,"end":19411.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19421.18159375,"end":19423.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19423.84784375,"end":19424.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19429.551593750002,"end":19430.108468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19430.108468750004,"end":19430.125343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19430.34471875,"end":19436.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19437.482843750004,"end":19438.545968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19438.91721875,"end":19441.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19441.195343749998,"end":19443.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19443.490343750003,"end":19444.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19445.414093749998,"end":19460.685968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19461.715343750002,"end":19468.718468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19469.140343749998,"end":19481.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19475.670968750004,"end":19476.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19482.33659375,"end":19486.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19486.67346875,"end":19505.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19506.18096875,"end":19513.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19514.179718749998,"end":19547.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19548.68909375,"end":19560.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19562.560343750003,"end":19563.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19563.522218750004,"end":19564.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19563.809093750002,"end":19566.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19564.652843750002,"end":19564.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19566.239093750002,"end":19571.537843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19571.18346875,"end":19571.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19571.622218750003,"end":19571.757218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19573.326593750004,"end":19575.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19575.419093750003,"end":19578.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19579.60409375,"end":19580.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19580.920343750004,"end":19588.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19588.44659375,"end":19589.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19589.00346875,"end":19609.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19591.19721875,"end":19591.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19596.428468750004,"end":19596.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19596.614093750002,"end":19596.647843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19597.913468749997,"end":19599.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19599.02721875,"end":19599.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19609.304093749997,"end":19633.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19622.348468750002,"end":19622.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19633.51971875,"end":19638.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19638.76784375,"end":19645.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19641.41721875,"end":19641.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19645.18034375,"end":19648.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19649.584718750004,"end":19660.249718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19660.68846875,"end":19675.217843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19675.622843750003,"end":19685.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19685.59596875,"end":19701.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19702.90971875,"end":19704.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19704.192218750002,"end":19708.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19708.765343749998,"end":19709.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19709.98034375,"end":19716.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19715.66721875,"end":19715.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19715.97096875,"end":19716.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19716.59534375,"end":19717.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19717.87784375,"end":19730.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19725.083468750003,"end":19725.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19726.467218750004,"end":19726.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19731.05721875,"end":19738.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19739.05596875,"end":19742.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19742.65034375,"end":19743.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19743.983468750004,"end":19760.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19761.34784375,"end":19779.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19781.226593749998,"end":19782.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19783.36971875,"end":19783.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19784.179718749998,"end":19786.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19786.980968750002,"end":19788.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19788.145343750002,"end":19795.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19795.80659375,"end":19797.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19797.61221875,"end":19801.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19801.51034375,"end":19806.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19806.319718749997,"end":19808.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19808.56409375,"end":19809.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19810.03221875,"end":19812.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19812.91784375,"end":19813.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19813.035968750002,"end":19813.154093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19813.42409375,"end":19815.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19816.61346875,"end":19817.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19816.647218750004,"end":19819.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19820.47784375,"end":19823.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19823.66721875,"end":19840.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19841.89221875,"end":19857.670343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19857.70409375,"end":19857.788468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19857.872843750003,"end":19919.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19919.75346875,"end":19935.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19936.27409375,"end":19945.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19936.30784375,"end":19936.476593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19938.012218750002,"end":19938.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19946.145968750003,"end":19948.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19949.031593749998,"end":19962.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19949.92596875,"end":19950.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19962.04221875,"end":19964.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19962.059093750002,"end":19962.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19964.45534375,"end":19966.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19966.851593749998,"end":19967.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19968.03284375,"end":19978.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19968.69096875,"end":19969.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19977.904718750004,"end":19980.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19979.609093749998,"end":19981.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19981.178468750004,"end":19992.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19982.022218750004,"end":19982.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19984.857218750003,"end":19985.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19985.835968749998,"end":19985.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19986.460343749997,"end":19986.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19986.764093750004,"end":19986.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":19987.96221875,"end":19987.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19987.97909375,"end":19988.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19991.53971875,"end":19991.927843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19992.045968750004,"end":19992.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19992.61971875,"end":20010.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19995.522218750004,"end":19996.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19996.973468750002,"end":19997.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20010.87846875,"end":20039.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20039.312843749998,"end":20044.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20044.52721875,"end":20055.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":20055.15846875,"end":20058.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20058.73596875,"end":20059.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20062.785968750002,"end":20063.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20063.967218750004,"end":20067.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20067.983468750004,"end":20071.139093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20071.69596875,"end":20074.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20076.015968749998,"end":20077.889093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20078.412218750003,"end":20080.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20081.09534375,"end":20082.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20082.765968749998,"end":20084.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20084.58846875,"end":20086.124093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20086.529093750003,"end":20091.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20091.35534375,"end":20092.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20093.34659375,"end":20094.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20094.949718750002,"end":20097.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20098.08846875,"end":20099.944718749997}],"whisperx":[{"start":1639.352,"end":1643.739,"text":"報告委員會出席委員人數11人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會"},{"start":1646.052,"end":1672.97,"text":"好現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第四會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第八次全體委員會議議事錄時間一百二十四年十一月五日星期三九時三分至十五時十六分地點群憲樓八零一會議室出席委員陳委員昭姿等十五人列席委員羅委員廷維等十六人列席官員環境部部長彭啟明等相關人員主席廖兆吉委員韋祥"},{"start":1673.65,"end":1689.358,"text":"報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定邀請環境部部長經濟部內政部農業部交通部行政院公共工程委員會就非法棄置到城市採礦檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略進行專題報告並被質詢"},{"start":1692.8,"end":1708.103,"text":"本日會議由環境部部長報告後委員陳昭資等17人提出質詢軍經環境部部長農業部次長黃昭清經濟部主任秘書莊明池及內政部國土管理署總工程司由袁順暨各相關主管等及其答覆"},{"start":1708.624,"end":1736.716,"text":"委員如現已所提書面諮詢列入記錄刊登公報決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員諮詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二週內書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定討論事項繼續審查噪音管制法第二條第26條及第28條條文修正草案計九案及審查噪音管制法第二條第26條及第28條條文修正草案計三案本次會議由委員提出修正動議二案"},{"start":1737.756,"end":1764.511,"text":"決議一 噪音管制法第二條第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案等十二案審查完略內容如審查結果並案擬據審查報告提報院會討論 院會討論時由廖兆及委員韋翔補充說明不需交黨團協商二 本法案相關立法說明授權行政單位提供審查結果第二條 趙委員 牛許廷等二十五人委員廖韋翔等十六人提案通過"},{"start":1765.672,"end":1782.329,"text":"第26條 趙委員 羅明才等20人提案及盧憲 及委員盧憲一 陳昭資 廖偉祥 牛許廷等4人所提修正動議修正通過第28條 趙委員 羅廷維等17人提案修正通過通過附帶決議一項 宣讀完畢好 請問委員會 上次議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處"},{"start":1789.946,"end":1815.553,"text":"沒有 那就意思就確定 謝謝 那本會議一成為邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況並備質詢那現在介紹在場委員及列席官員第一位是陳昭志陳委員林月琦林委員王振旭王委員初期官員是勞動部部長洪森翰"},{"start":1818.767,"end":1839.494,"text":"勞動力發展署署長黃玲玉勞工保險局局長白立珍勞動基金運用局局長蘇玉清職業安全衛生署署長林益棠還有勞動及職業安全衛生研究所所長王厚誠莊規司司長莊美娟勞動關係司司長王厚偉勞動保險司司長陳美女"},{"start":1848.608,"end":1858.532,"text":"勞動扶持退休師 司長黃維生勞動條件級就業評審師 司長黃奇亞勞動法務司 司長傅惠芝秘書處 處長丁玉珍人事處 處長江碧玲政風處 處長周志信會計處 處長林美信"},{"start":1877.822,"end":1894.531,"text":"統計處處長梅家園資訊處副處長曾斐瑜還有傳統法人職業災害預防及重建中心執行長李伯昌好 接下來請勞動部洪部長來做報告"},{"start":1906.99,"end":1929.058,"text":"主席 各位委員先進 包括各位記者朋友大家好今天很榮幸在本會請提出這個業務報告所以今天報告的內容主要會分為三個部分將就整體的勞動情勢跟近期的重點業務還有本年度施政計劃執行內容及展望來進行報告首先從整體的勞動情勢來分析"},{"start":1929.938,"end":1956.764,"text":"那就劳动参与的概况在114年度1至9月劳动人力人数达到1200万是1202万4000人叫前一年同期增加26000人劳动力参与率年提升0.11个百分点就人数116点1111162点1万人叫同期增加3万人失业率下降0.04个百分点"},{"start":1957.523,"end":1971.336,"text":"那勞動參與率的部分女性為52.05%男性為67.20%男女差距較同期率略增0.04個百分點那薪資概況分析經常性薪資114年1-9月較113年同期增加3%為47751元"},{"start":1980.525,"end":1991.611,"text":"接著就本部進行推動幾項重點工作進行說明為因應美國關稅政策我們持續主動訪視工會建立管道就可能受衝擊關稅衝擊的產業和工會團體持續主動的訪視和收集意見並陸續提出"},{"start":1997.074,"end":2021.084,"text":"各項協助勞工朋友的措施包括強化公安定措施減班休息再充電計劃支持受影響企業規劃辦理訓練支援青年就業計劃以及9月30號發布的勞工就業通計劃近期我國也因為天然災害造成人民重大損害因此本部立刻啟動災後就業協助措施不僅提供臨時就業機會"},{"start":2022.564,"end":2044.465,"text":"协助灾区民众安置更投入职训与防护工作以实际行动支持灾区重建防护工作颁布因应灾后石棉屋瓦浪板拆除清理作业危害预防处理原则并购置个人防护包发送灾区作业人员使用同时设立灾后重建防护指挥所"},{"start":2045.413,"end":2070.51,"text":"防护服务站以及职业安全卫生辅导团主动深入灾区办理实棉拆除危害预防辅导及提供咨询协助而社会高度关注的职场霸凌问题本部除了修正发布执行职务遭受不法侵害预防指引的第4版那来强化雇主调查及处理机制提供事业单位定定预防计划并具以执行之外"},{"start":2071.294,"end":2089.335,"text":"为了完善职场霸凌的申诉调查已经处于机制以及强化保护劳工身心健康我们在职安法增订了职场霸凌防治专章并经贵人会审议完据后续我们会积极研修相关附属法规以规划配套措施等以配合法令公布执行"},{"start":2090.095,"end":2104.226,"text":"另一方面因應就業服務法第46條修正放寬80歲免貧推動降低重症家庭衝擊配套措施為了避免市場供需失衡導致器重則輕的現象加劇自114年8月1號起本部與衛福部建立"},{"start":2105.7,"end":2126.983,"text":"重症加勤申请看护移工分流制度采取跨部会合作轻重分流且重症优先之处理机制令本部也同步扩大重症对象多元免贫认定资格落实检证辩明而为使青壮年劳工谭姓育儿照顾不离职本部也推动育婴留庭照顾谭姓化的新制"},{"start":2127.483,"end":2145.61,"text":"薪資內容主要為育嬰留職停薪以日申請以及家庭照顧假以小時計那正在辦理相應的制度與措施預計在115年1月1號上路此外我們也規劃辦理勞工生育補助方案本國籍"},{"start":2146.553,"end":2164.129,"text":"女性老保被保险人生育可请领老保生育给付加计生育补助合计每胎10万元双生以上依比例增给预计于115年1月1号开办实施那为了保障外送人权益本部借由跨部会合作的机会"},{"start":2164.844,"end":2181.258,"text":"推动外送员权益保障及外送平台管理研拟专法与规范并由各部会依权责分工就外送员消费者合作商家及外送平台的各方权益义务与保障及管理将尽速完成相关法制作业"},{"start":2181.718,"end":2201.11,"text":"而有关推动跨国劳动力精进方案在本国劳工优先外国人权益保障的原则之下以本国劳工加薪为前提增加移工名额放宽留用资深移工并精进旅宿及商港码头业引进外国技术能力的措施同时也将设跨国劳动力延展中心来强化政府的效能"},{"start":2201.81,"end":2231.014,"text":"这些近期推动的重点工作与民众切身权益密切相关本部以谨慎务实的态度研理对策体察民情苦民所苦并积极推动各项解决措施致力回应民众需求那接下来也向各位委员报告114年的施政内容与展望有关最低工资本部已经在114年9月26号召开最低工资审议会由劳资学政四方委员共同讨论决定从115年1月1号起"},{"start":2231.909,"end":2258.069,"text":"每月最低工资由28590元调整至29500元调升910元调幅3.18%每小时由最低工资190元调升到196元那本次的调升预估有247万名劳工受惠那在推动友善职场环境维护工作平权方面持续补助企业设置补给入室"},{"start":2258.789,"end":2278.566,"text":"托兒設施或措施並補助企業推動工作生活平衡措施共同協助企業支持員工平衡工作與家庭照顧而為加強宣導職場平權消除懷孕歧視本部也透過與衛福部的合作提供孕媽咪懷孕歧視相關資訊與申訴窗口"},{"start":2281.741,"end":2303.758,"text":"运用多元方式提升雇主禁止怀孕就业歧视的法尊能力在攸关劳工权益的劳保及退休金制度方面我们持续检讨与修正相关法规落实年金法制以保障劳工朋友的保险给付权益同时为稳定维持基金税位除了借由拨补和多元基金投资运用外"},{"start":2304.659,"end":2331.808,"text":"并依据疫后特别条例额外编列300亿元的特别预算役注自109年起总计7年编列5070亿元截至114年9月底劳工保险基金累存余额为1兆2484亿余元未来政府将持续办理拨补来确保制度的稳健运作而劳退救治的足额提拨率已达99.39%"},{"start":2334.969,"end":2340.658,"text":"勞動基金投資方面截至124年9月勞動基金運用規模為7兆4399億元累積收益數達3兆6387億元"},{"start":2349.489,"end":2368.317,"text":"為了提升勞動力參與在促進就業與人才培育方面本部針對不同族群推動多元措施例如婦女在就業計劃強化運用自主訓練獎勵在就業獎勵雇主工時調整獎勵等獎勵措施並持續落實中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法而"},{"start":2369.077,"end":2395.275,"text":"青年就业方案的推动统合了11个部会的资源本部推动包括工作岗位训练初次循职青年稳定就业等措施另一方面我们也透过多元资讯管道提升劳工的就业技能并配合国家重点产业发展办理重点产业人才职训同时11月我国将主办第三届的亚洲技能竞赛届时将有28个国家超过300名的选手参加"},{"start":2398.977,"end":2417.036,"text":"在强化延揽外国人才方面近期将配合国发会揽才专法的修正持续协助延揽外国专业人才来台另外也持续推动移工留才九用方案此外本部将增设直接聘雇联合服务中心分据点来辨明"},{"start":2418.16,"end":2447.078,"text":"方便民众就近办理并简化聘雇流程来提升用工的效率接着在促进劳资合作方面本部也希望能够建构稳定稳健和谐的劳资关系包括透过补助和奖励鼓励工会积极办理教育训练强化劳工专业智能和劳动权益意识以及推动团体协约的签订此外为了协助经济弱势还有劳工争议诉讼期间的生活安定我们也延长中高龄者中高龄者和高龄者"},{"start":2447.52,"end":2472.382,"text":"与身心障碍必要的生活费用辅助期间以降低劳工诉讼的障碍并推动劳动教育向下扎根来提升青年选址对劳动权益的认识而本部为策进职场减灾保障工作者的安全与健康除了加强营造工作场所源头管理外也强化营造工程减灾机制我们更更新了户外作业热危害预防指引"},{"start":2472.882,"end":2484.281,"text":"避免工作者因高氣溫環境發生職業障礙同時持續輔導中小企業提升安全衛生措施透過大廠帶小廠的方式來提升安全衛生合作"},{"start":2485.453,"end":2511.268,"text":"管理的績效那在健全職業傷害防治及職災個案主動服務上已於22個地方政府配置47名的職災勞工專業服務人員那以及22名的重建行政協助人員提供個別化的深度服務另外從115年1月起辦理職災勞工及家屬的法律權益協助方案從職災發生後"},{"start":2512.789,"end":2536.187,"text":"及提供职灾原因初步分析专业律师协助陪同和解与调解到诉讼辅助等完整的法律资源职灾移工亦包含全程的同意协助确保职灾劳工及家属能够获得应有的补偿与赔偿那重整来说劳工部的施政核心还是要让劳工朋友基本生活有保障"},{"start":2537.948,"end":2550.281,"text":"職場環境更友善就業機會更多元社會安全網更穩固那透過這樣的努力構築出一個更具韌性和前瞻性的勞動體系最後也謝謝今天各位委員的指教也希望各位委員持續給我們建議謝謝"},{"start":2558.223,"end":2586.996,"text":"好有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入記錄刊登公報那現在開始做詢答做一下宣告第一本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘10點半截止發言登記委員如果有書面質詢請於3月前提出預計不受理暫定10點30分休息10分鐘原則上11點30分處理臨時提案10點半截止收件現在請登記第一位委員陳昭芝從委員來做發言"},{"start":2592.747,"end":2606.825,"text":"謝謝主席 我想在質詢之前我想向服務本組的議事人員蔡豐汝女士表達哀悼之意她在星期天過世我祝福她往生淨土 得享永恆安樂謝謝主席 那有請洪部長有請部長"},{"start":2614.239,"end":2632.042,"text":"陳委員早 部長早 剛剛您的報告當中因為有提到薪資的部分那你念的平均薪資沒有念到中位數薪資 你知道這兩個字數字向來差了將近一萬塊所以我主張我們在醫學上也都是用中位數來表達 因為有些人極端的數字會影響這個判讀"},{"start":2633.744,"end":2653.484,"text":"這讓大家民眾的感受會是比較靠近那第二個就是生育補助部分也是一樣當陳時中政委公佈的時候他說一胎十萬大家都一胎十萬好像可能會有感也不見得會有感可是事實上不是那您剛剛念的是對的只是說他是補助至十萬本來就有兩個月的補助津貼"},{"start":2654.205,"end":2668.311,"text":"所以我覺得政府在做這個不管是你覺得福利式的或是說一個惠民式的一個措施我覺得要講清楚因為誤解是更不好您剛剛是念對啦但是我是說政委在公佈的時候不是這樣的標題都是10萬塊"},{"start":2671.453,"end":2689.531,"text":"我想在當時在這個生育給付加上生育補助其實這個是好事啦我只是說有時候讓民眾的感覺要真實一點部長謝謝你那兩週前行政院通過勞動部的一個跨國勞動力精進方案那我今天想跟部長討論一下這個方案的執行"},{"start":2690.692,"end":2712.921,"text":"跨國勞動力的這個精進方案其中有一個政策就是製造業每加薪一位兩千元本勞兩千元那就可以增加一位移工的這個名額那這項政策是希望同時能夠舒緩低薪還有缺工的一個問題出發點非常好但是這個執行細節上我覺得還是要小心恐怕有時候會有一些本末倒時問題請問部長"},{"start":2714.301,"end":2729.971,"text":"假如企業為了增加移工名額做了表面的加薪增加本薪2000元但原本的工作獎金或福利卻減少了或是取消了請問勞動部會允許嗎如果企業這麼做你還會同意給他新的移工名額嗎"},{"start":2731.513,"end":2758.799,"text":"我想我們基本上我們就是希望企業能夠落實加薪尤其是我要強調這個是給相對低薪的本國勞工加薪我們知道那如果企業有相關的這些不誠實的規避的行為或者是就像說這個假加薪的這個狀況的話我想我們就會取消他的名額你們可以查核嗎你們有辦法查核嗎如何去認定可以嗎你們查核得到嗎我們通過勞保資料可以"},{"start":2760.588,"end":2778.565,"text":"你們如果說有辦法查核 那是最好的我們希望這是一個實質的 實質下薪那這個政策也提到增額的那個移工期滿續聘必須幫本國勞工再次的加薪如果要續聘 請問這個再次的加薪薪資是多少 有規定嗎其實一樣 也就是說 我跟委員說明"},{"start":2785.545,"end":2806.938,"text":"基本上比方說你如果幫10個本國勞工加薪2000塊你可以取得10個移工的名額但是在續聘的時候要維持這10個名額你還必須要再加薪一次就是一樣是10個本國勞工再加薪一次那才能夠保持這10個名額"},{"start":2807.398,"end":2833.054,"text":"部長現在很清楚 謝謝你那這個方案跨國勞動力經濟方案還有另外一個政策是放寬外國技術人力的流用上限這應該是這個移工留才久用方案的一個延伸但是從2022年到現在移工團體認為這是失敗為什麼呢因為本來是希望說自身移工那他可以升階到這個中階技術人才技術人力長期留在台灣但是三年半了"},{"start":2833.914,"end":2840.415,"text":"部長 李鑑哲升中間移工僅佔男女移工總數的百分比多好您知道嗎目前5萬多人"},{"start":2841.291,"end":2869.423,"text":"4.5個Percent這5萬多人就很少嘛 百分之4.5對 您知道那這個不到一成的轉換率那明顯應該無法達到這個流財的目標那過去也有一些移工因為他們要身為這個中介人力的時候需要繳交更高的仲介費而且部分仲介甚至趁此去哄抬那個收費所以部長對於這麼低的轉換率還有這個仲介可能從中剝削勞動部知道嗎你們怎麼處理這件事"},{"start":2870.503,"end":2885.626,"text":"先跟委員說明其實的確很多中小企業他的那個可能中小型的工廠他用的移工數比較少所以他們都來跟我們反映他們想要把它轉成中階技術人力已經到達那個原本25%的天花板了"},{"start":2886.997,"end":2896.06,"text":"就是他們還想要再轉更多可是因為達到已經達到25%的天花板了所以就限制住他們能夠轉換的數字所以這是為什麼我們把它打開我們現在把這就是為什麼我們把這25%打開的原因"},{"start":2902.102,"end":2930.803,"text":"那當然接下來針對仲介費因為現在國際上面都非常非常關注仲介費的這個問題我們會在整體的強迫勞動整體的來思考裡面包括我想這幾天大家也知道我們會做相關的法規的檢討裡面希望能夠更大程度的去面對這個事情我再請教你一個問題因為這個移工團體一直訴求的廢除這個攔領移工工作的年限請問你們的想法是什麼有往這個方向去做的可能性嗎"},{"start":2931.243,"end":2948.049,"text":"其實的確現在我們為什麼在這次的方案裡面更加的重視這個外國技術人力其實很重要包括外國技術人力的權利因為透過外國技術人力的工作年限是沒有限制的那我們也希望把這個通道打得更開"},{"start":2950.51,"end":2956.577,"text":"那部長勞動部明年就是說要在這個菲律賓設置這個跨國勞動力延展中心那我就請教這個是好事那我請教部長為什麼選擇菲律賓是基於什麼評估是原能力人力供應市場關係外交還是外交考量還有另外就是說在做選擇的時候有沒有跟其他的東南亞國家做一個比較麻煩部長"},{"start":2974.073,"end":2988.181,"text":"第一個先謝謝委員的肯定那我們其實要設置延展中心其中一個很重要的目的其實就是希望能夠強化這個國對國的職聘的能量大家期待很久"},{"start":2989.722,"end":3008.308,"text":"那這也是我們很實質的作為那第一個當然也有考慮菲律賓目前跟我們的外交關係是很好的那也包括其實菲律賓也一直有來跟我們表達希望大家在人才上面能夠有更多的合作所以我們也在這個理由之下菲律賓現在是"},{"start":3009.008,"end":3027.894,"text":"先做的選擇第一個選擇是菲律賓但是我們也在評估其他的選擇也不只現菲律賓我想請教這個延攬中心招募對象是中階技術還是一般的初階的藍營移工因為我看到預算書你們的目標是15000人那主要又放在哪些產業"},{"start":3029.319,"end":3053.335,"text":"其實因為我們這次開放的旅宿業的技術人力跟三崗碼頭的技術人力其實他們會透過延展中心進來但是延展中心也會協助蘭嶺移工的職聘所以蘭嶺移工的職聘跟中階技術人力的這個相關的引進都會透過我們的延展中心來擴大協助的能量"},{"start":3054.015,"end":3083.315,"text":"部長您剛剛提到了好不容易聽到一個國對國的這個職聘那我還是要問請教如果他們進來後會有仲介介入嗎那在菲律賓會不會被收取這個仲介費我的意思說因為如果你要去設個海外延攬中心的話那我們應該要保護這個勞工在母國或在臺灣都不要再有仲介業者穿梭其中不然就失去你在海外設立這個延攬中心的這個意義你有做過這個部分的考量嗎或是管理"},{"start":3083.655,"end":3103.828,"text":"跟文說明的確現在我說國際上也非常非常關注這個仲介費相關的問題那我們會一步一步來做檢討那包括國外包括國內但是我想我們這一次的計劃的內容是很明確的我們往前跨了一步"},{"start":3104.989,"end":3117.832,"text":"部長因為要聽到您的一個勞動部長講說國對國的執聘是不容易的那我還是請教之前問過你那個Giant巨大他被指控強迫勞動也被美國發出這個戰扣令請問目前的進度是什麼有解除了嗎"},{"start":3119.131,"end":3140.355,"text":"還解除了嗎跟委員說明因為當然這個現在巨大公司也正在跟美國的CPP他們在做直接的討論還在努力直接討論就目前我們看到巨大公司也做出了改善的承諾部長我先確定一下就是說他是不是違反勞動的勞動法令還是另外一個我們剛剛你談到的仲介費問題這兩個都有嗎我先確認一下"},{"start":3144.978,"end":3161.72,"text":"確實 因為勞動部去檢查說沒有啊沒有違反那個台中市勞工局去檢查說沒有那我就說勞動法令這是等一下我再跟你稍微討論一下仲介費因為本來就很容易被國外嘛歐美國家認為這個仲介費就是剝削勞工我想你現在也知情了嘛瞭解這樣的事情我不是現在才知情"},{"start":3162.24,"end":3182.738,"text":"好謝謝你很久之前關心勞工就知道了那現在有自行車的大廠說台灣的法規這是天家雜誌報導移工可以自行因為我們的法規有明定移工可以自行負擔一定比例的仲介費保險啊這個裡面包括機票仲介費保險等等但是歐美期待是零付費所以我的意思是說排除那個一般的我們所謂勞檢這個不合格台灣的法規跟不上國際的要求因為我們允許"},{"start":3187.722,"end":3210.324,"text":"所以企業界覺得他們按照台灣的法規去做可是會被可能在國際上會被懲罰所以這個問題就落在這個勞動部身上了他即使合規和我們勞檢但是他因為還有這個仲介費的部分跟我們說明我們第一個我們會先來做一個行動的指引來跟經濟部一起合作輔導企業但是我們同時也正進行法規的盤點"},{"start":3211.986,"end":3239.813,"text":"那我們也會在輔導的同時來去檢討那這個法規跟國際要求上面之間是不是還存在著落差那是不是要來後續在什麼樣的期程之下來去思考要不要做檢討甚至改善謝謝您今天的那個回答因為您今天就是有談得很清楚你知道你先做指引但我們知道指引是行政行政的指引它是沒有約束力的那你剛剛有提到說在法規面你要盤點就是往法規面走"},{"start":3240.293,"end":3267.746,"text":"我们当然会做法规会往法规面盘但的确因为台湾的中小企业比较多那所以其实我们也会需要考虑到不同规模之间的调试能力16家企业其实也被点名吧对所以我跟你说因为台湾的企业的规模从大到小有很多所以也必须帮比较小型的企业去设想他可能需要的调试的能力据了解我图片上贝寇要在这个总这个供应链有2.7兆哦"},{"start":3270.307,"end":3282.333,"text":"2.7兆這麼多 所以部長這個腳步要快要用這樣的方式來 影響太大了好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳偉 謝謝部長接下來請林月琴委員來做選擇主席麻煩洪部長 請部長"},{"start":3303.871,"end":3325.64,"text":"林委員好部長早 首先還是要感謝你因為我們上次質詢針對關稅有被中高齡備份五星假的這個課題你已經啟動讓每個月僱主都通報上來來讓掌握到備份五星假真的先首先先感謝很快的來關心到我們的中高齡備份五星假的問題那"},{"start":3329.319,"end":3347.825,"text":"部長你應該也知道最近我們的交委會有在處理高溫價的一個議題那看起來將高溫會納入到災害的一個天氣那勞動部在去年8月的時候也修正職業安全衛生設施規則"},{"start":3350.598,"end":3366.639,"text":"高氣溫的作業熱跟危害的預防指引想先問部長目前的修正對高溫下勞工是不是真的有幫助我想其實我們在當時7月的修正的這個"},{"start":3368.171,"end":3389.341,"text":"高溫熱危害的指引裡面吼那其實更明確的對於這個高溫的風險做出了分類吼那如果尤其是他如果是第四級的話其實雇主就是有義務如果進入到第四第四級的風險情境的話雇主就是有義務要提出預防的做法那如果沒有做的話這個我們的檢察員是可以開罰的"},{"start":3390.621,"end":3408.387,"text":"是 可是我們從衛福部的資料大概也可以看到就是熱傷害的個案從2021年423人已經增到2024年的7月的時候已經1204人了成長大概三倍那顯示現在的指引模式可能沒有辦法有效真的是去降低這樣子一個熱傷害"},{"start":3410.067,"end":3432.418,"text":"另外我也收到很多未成年勞動者反映許多長期曝曬的一個工作場所僱主跟勞工都不知道這些指引的內容那更別說有沒有執行了這也可能也反映了上述增加的數字也有可能存在是非常多的黑數而目前勞動部似乎也要朝向如何讓勞工工作空間"},{"start":3434.399,"end":3463.02,"text":"避開熱危害而不是給假的一個模式那目前狀況你整個進度的狀態是如何而且如何確保部署可以執行到這些相關的規定且確實執行謝委員 曾子勳這個部分大概就是我們分為勞檢是一定會做的當然就是接下來就是宣導跟輔導那看起來我們這個宣導的層面還要再加強就是如何讓這個指引的內容讓一般的勞工"},{"start":3464.1,"end":3488.812,"text":"知道說我們的一個一些防護也跟委員報告我們今年也開始提供這個勞工自營作業者他的中小企業勞工跟自營作業者他個人的防護像今年也九月份開始申請到目前為止也蠻多人來申請這個個人的這個風扇衣這個部分我們目前提供如果僱主跟勞工都不知道這些內容的話我會覺得那就是沒有辦法做到比較好的防護不過我建議在勞檢的時候當然剛剛成儒"},{"start":3491.431,"end":3509.137,"text":"要加強宣導跟檢查可是對落實優良的企業是不是可以給予友善職場的認證或者是減稅誘因或者是對於違規者的明確裁罰跟公告這個我是覺得可以進一步來做研議那在部長我真過去針對於包含"},{"start":3509.677,"end":3537.696,"text":"我們的家庭照顧假育嬰留庭假等多次質詢希望能夠有更彈性的制度如果小朋友因為高溫身體不適的話依照現行的制度那當然家長可以利用一年的一個56個小時的家庭照顧假明年新制上路的話也可以從原本的日記的一個調整成實際我要給部長先予以肯定確實彈性非常的多這也是我過去一直主張不過我覺得部內現在"},{"start":3540.358,"end":3557.078,"text":"目前之前我们有提过国际照顾价的研究计划你们也在做了希望能参考国外的经验现在也开了很多场的专家学者会议也提出了对应的措施政策不知道下一步你的规划会是什么"},{"start":3558.41,"end":3572.849,"text":"我想我们其实目前的确在今年9月我们公布的因为刘婷谈性话里面让大家可以一日来请30日那家庭照顾家也以时来请我们是认为我们可能先给因为"},{"start":3573.79,"end":3598.822,"text":"確實台灣的中小企業蠻多的所以其實大家也會需要在這個情境下面有一個適應期其實我跟委員報告其實這兩個月我們是非常緊鑼密鼓的在找企業包括是企業的人資在讓他們了解我們這個措施其實要怎麼樣更簡正便民的執行用更簡化的程序的方法讓大家可以操作不會在申請上面造成過多的"},{"start":3599.822,"end":3623.226,"text":"負擔所以這幾個月我們其實辦了很多場跟這些人資的夥伴尤其是不同產業人資的夥伴在辦的確我們是希望說也許這個做法這個彈性化的做法可以先上路一段時間當然後續是不是要再來做範圍上面的擴大當然我覺得我們也可以來評估跟演繹明年第一季是不是這個國際照顧價的研究計畫是不是可以完成報告"},{"start":3625.226,"end":3642.531,"text":"應該是可以好那是不是一週內可以提供我一些相關的資料就是你這計劃進行好謝謝那再來我們就看到就針對育嬰留停假勞動部真的放寬了非常多的限制不過明天即將上路的卻還是沒有適用年齡當初我們還是希望比照國際有的是到"},{"start":3643.211,"end":3666.633,"text":"到那個8歲可是你現在依然還是維持在現行的3歲而且是以日為單位而媒體報導說未來不排除擴大不然這部分你的考量會是什麼就是3歲以下那為什麼沒有擴大有在研議嗎未來有可能擴大嗎跟文文說明其實我們這次做了這樣子的突破這次的突破的幅度其實是蠻大的那"},{"start":3669.488,"end":3692.073,"text":"的確會有一些中小企業他們跟我們表達其實這對於他們在比如說企業內部的管理跟排班上面也會有一些挑戰所以一樣是剛剛我們也是在思考說因為這一次的做法是透過還不用修模法的狀況先來做所以我們希望能夠讓我們的產業界有一段時間的"},{"start":3693.853,"end":3721.4,"text":"調適跟適應那讓這樣以日請休的運營留庭的方式慢慢的摸索也熟悉能夠上手那在企業跟勞工之間的相關的權益那怎麼樣做到平衡而且能夠互相支持那到一個調適的階段後續那對於是不是剛才說要把年齡再提高或者是範圍再擴大我覺得如果尤其是他可能會涉及到法律上的修正的話那我覺得我們也可以來做這樣子的考慮"},{"start":3722.52,"end":3738.952,"text":"再麻煩部長去做一些演繹因為我們還是期望能夠朝向真的幫助到家庭可是除了要照顧自己的孩子的話蠟燭另外一端就是年長者隨著超高齡社會的到來依照勞動部推估我們台灣的就業人口當中"},{"start":3739.312,"end":3761.864,"text":"同時需要照顧他人的占五分之一 超過200萬人其中每年約18萬人因照顧而調整工時或者是請假甚至13.3萬人是因照顧而離職那這對於缺工又希望促進中高齡就業的社會來講無疑是個打擊針對這些影響 三明治的勞工勞動部有沒有什麼樣的一個應對政策"},{"start":3763.089,"end":3780.323,"text":"跟跟委員說明第一個其實針對長照就是台灣台灣的勞工那是否家裡有長照的需求是不是要再做我們的職場制度或工時制度的調整部分其實我們有跟衛福部討論那當然因為現在衛福部"},{"start":3781.003,"end":3795.088,"text":"他目前也正在規劃那後續已經要來執行所謂的長照3.0所以我們這部分會跟衛福部綜合來研議如果衛福部認為在長照3.0的政策之下是有需要在職場的制度上面做出一些相對應的"},{"start":3796.808,"end":3823.127,"text":"調整然後來去因應台灣的長照需求的話當然我們也不排除跟衛福部一起在做這部分的討論但是重點是他還是要請衛福部這邊先做目前長照整體需求的評估因為這部分我們沒有在需求面這不是我們沒有辦法自己單獨完成這件事情可是在長照需求的評估完成有個很比較清楚的輪廓假如有需要職場制度的話那我想我們可以在一起來討論"},{"start":3823.993,"end":3845.024,"text":"因為最實際案例是當老人就是住院就長輩住院出院前準備凡家後使用長照甚至聘僱移工之前都需要子女請假去安排所以每次安排時間大概20天到30天不等當然我們現在看到衛福部也一直在縮短這個準備時間可是這就像剛剛部長講的說未來老公"},{"start":3846.585,"end":3864.893,"text":"衛福部如果確定的話那你這個家庭照顧假因為現在看到的只有7天以下就是用完因為根本不夠因為現在如果講20到30天如果搭配一年14天的特休的話加起來也才21天可能就是沒有辦法達到可是我們反觀看日本就是說"},{"start":3866.414,"end":3886.212,"text":"他們的長期照顧的安排架裡邊針對於家中有長者安排的會給予一些彈性所以他們的育兒戒護修業法每一位長輩就是一生當中有93天的時間可以提供子女請假去做長照的一個準備"},{"start":3887.052,"end":3903.985,"text":"當然包含南韓 德國跟法國有類似的制度當然我知道說我們現在一時要到達很難可是請問部長因為從2019年民間團體就在倡議至今那勞動部對長期照顧安排假有什麼規劃那短充期的目標 工作目標又是什麼"},{"start":3904.81,"end":3928.948,"text":"就是其實就如同剛才跟委員說的就是說這部分我們真的會也需要衛福部這邊其實在他整體的長照政策的需求評估上面那來去做一個下一個階段的評估尤其是現在有長照3.0的政策那衛福部也一直跟我們說他們會把這相關很多的間隔的時間大幅的縮短那可能"},{"start":3930.709,"end":3945.815,"text":"在未服務政策的目標下可能那個可能很多的那個時間的間隔的需求可能會跟過去是不太一樣可是他可能會需要他們在實施以後來去更清楚的去描繪這件事情我們比較能夠來評估是不是有這樣子的需求"},{"start":3946.595,"end":3961.26,"text":"我是認為說如果目前當然我們沒辦法比照日本而且我覺得已經也大幅的針對於育兒的家庭已經有針對於那個前面剛剛提的已經有一些改變了那可不可以考慮一下"},{"start":3962,"end":3977.248,"text":"一定比例的就說現在事實上我們的家庭照顧家事實上是無薪的那有沒有辦法事實上是有薪假然後由政府來負擔我們的僱主多餘的支出然後這樣子先做這樣的一個"},{"start":3978.148,"end":3993.775,"text":"調整希望勞動部可以先做去考量因為我們當然沒辦法要求到30天甚至日本是到93天那有沒有辦法事實上先做這樣的一個考慮那請勞動部在一個月內是不是可以把研議的狀況提供給我們辦公室"},{"start":3994.363,"end":4017.493,"text":"可以但我這邊但就直接的跟委員說因為如果家庭照顧家有心的話那不脫兩個方面要不就是企業支付薪資要不就是政府支付可是我們計算過如果是政府支出的話其實這需要非常大的財政的能力可能算起來是這個"},{"start":4021.254,"end":4046.489,"text":"幾百億以上的中央政府的財政但現在中央政府的財政狀況難度是很高的所以我說先考量去研議因為畢竟現在家庭就在育兒跟照顧長輩夾殺當中事實上是非常辛苦的接下來一樣是關於假的議題前天勞動部有召開病假權入法的公聽會目的是要解決雇主"},{"start":4046.929,"end":4070.288,"text":"可以能以病假來審查全勤獎金 晉升考核等不利待遇的手段變相來懲罰請假的一個員工 進而造成病假成為職場的一個風險扣年度的考積等不利待遇事實上大部分勞工會擔心的 所以往往會抱病去上班所以目前勞動部的修法的方向是什麼"},{"start":4072.797,"end":4098.071,"text":"其實在這個長榮航空的這個事件之下其實各界都很關心勞工請病假權因為都不希望這個企業過度的運用管理制度讓員工不敢請病假只能抱病上班然後甚至影響到員工的健康權其實也會影響到很多的服務品質跟工作的成果"},{"start":4099.051,"end":4119.627,"text":"所以我們其實在這個星期一其實我們就邀請我們相關的工會團體不只是全國性的工會其實有一些也是地方的工會很關心的工會也一起來那包括跟雇主團體一起來研商那我們就是希望接下來在病假保障的權利上病假權的法制化上面"},{"start":4120.367,"end":4143.03,"text":"需要给予目前劳工在请病假的权利上面一定程度的保障至少一个合理的保障让我们的劳工至少在请病假的时候不会担心遭到企业不利的对待各种可能各种的不利的对待让大家不敢请休但我还要特别提醒就是修法是一定要修"},{"start":4144.023,"end":4161.544,"text":"尤其是雇主利用不利待遇的一個手段那讓請假權成為一個被剝奪的對象可是除了立法我收到更多勞工反映的是即便是有法的保障雇主有沒有遵守法律有沒有有效的內部外部申訴機制其實是更重要的"},{"start":4162.265,"end":4186.102,"text":"所以包含申請勞檢的時候有沒有發現實際的問題而非我們檢查形式上的設置卻沒有實際作用所以我希望勞動部也要注意到這一塊然後來做預防否則的話基本上沒有辦法達到所以最後就是希望你們真的要那個落實那個申訴機制還有增加我們的勞檢的強度不要做表面的公佈還要盡快啟動我們的"},{"start":4188.403,"end":4209.574,"text":"企業的盡職調查以上我想我們不會我們不會是只會停在所謂做表面功夫尤其是我們可能這部分也會接下來如果制度修正以後也會需要有專案性的這個檢查讓企業在這方面把法尊給做起來我相信洪部長很關心勞工應該一定都能夠完成謝謝"},{"start":4216.604,"end":4218.866,"text":"好謝謝謝謝部長接下來請陳秦威委員來做詢問謝謝主席我主席我想請洪部長謝謝來請部長"},{"start":4237.99,"end":4247.446,"text":"陳委員長部長我今天本來是也要針對勞工政策提出很多具體的建議但今天想跟您說的是本席遇到了非常多的問題"},{"start":4249.284,"end":4273.879,"text":"給你看這份公文是10月8號我們辦公室發文的關心花蓮災民的臨時工方案辦理狀況你們回復我們的是說10月15號就要回復因為我們關心災民的安置我們要看執行的成效我們要看監督的資源有沒有到位結果到現在都沒有回函這是第一份這是第一份第二份"},{"start":4274.878,"end":4288.387,"text":"我們來看我希望在10月21號的時候發文索取供應鏈支持方案執行狀況那10月29號就應該回文的結果一樣是石沉大海"},{"start":4289.963,"end":4309.909,"text":"再來第三份我是10月30號發文要求提供民間企業參與托育服務的統計數據那這個很簡單因為我本來就是一時很關心少子化育兒環境我需要知道數據我才知道為什麼托育政策做不到做不來11月7號就該回了"},{"start":4310.509,"end":4339.035,"text":"那現在累積了三份公文完全沒有辦法回覆我幫你算了一下拖延的時間分別花連是35天供應鏈支持方案21天民間企業提供托育服務12天我想在這邊問到底是什麼原因因為我們也是根據立法院的職權行使法第45條的問政監督權來監督行政部門但是你們沒有不回就是不回"},{"start":4339.955,"end":4352.665,"text":"你現在是可以告訴我一個日期什麼時候可以回嗎這樣好不好所以下週這幾份我們都會回文而且我也會請我們相關的單位到委員辦公室來說明"},{"start":4353.933,"end":4380.175,"text":"我上次遇到這個狀況是環境部你知道上次風災有幾十片的光電板需要處理所以8月的時候他告訴我他會告訴我編片有序號然後會有一個清單9月沒辦法10月沒辦法3個月沒辦法結果果然11月才說真的找不回來了因為數量太大了我希望不是因為這樣子的問題我真心的希望不是因為這些數據是你沒有辦法提供的"},{"start":4380.655,"end":4408.215,"text":"這些數據其實都我想這都沒什麼問題所以我們就下週所以你今天會押一週內這些東西我都可以有一個答案一週內我們提供然後我也會請我們相關的這個單位權責單位到委員辦公室說明那部長您現在可以告訴我就是未來我也想知道未來假使我跟您發文所資最晚是不會超過幾天我沒有辦法現在因為不同的資料可能不同的狀況"},{"start":4409.284,"end":4425.619,"text":"但這些針對這些資料沒有沒有這些資料下禮拜就會給我們就可以給但是未來每個不同的資料會有不同的狀況那我也希望您來說明的時候可以告訴我說您看你針對這些資料你沒有什麼意義嘛可是為什麼會拖到35天也希望可以給我一個答案好嗎可以嗎好"},{"start":4429.892,"end":4453.594,"text":"好再來我們看一下你在這個任性特別預算以及115年就業安定基金總共加起來編了21億是有關於青年就業的預算這當然不是一筆小數字所以我也認為這是勞動部認為關稅衝擊之下所需要的經費所以才會編列這些預算但我們來細細拆分一下"},{"start":4454.675,"end":4476.342,"text":"我本席有蠻多朋友有去參加您去11月9號北學聯的交流活動所以當時你有宣傳說支援青年就業計畫這個最高祭出了4.8萬的補助然後已經有超過5000名的青年申請從9月開始上路以來那姑且先不論預算重疊"},{"start":4477.742,"end":4500.357,"text":"因為你是一個原本計畫的加強版嗎也許勞動部認為有其預算的必要性但是呢我看了之前立法院的官方很多的審查意見喔對於勞動部推動這個的執行率是說非常的慘淡114年115年就業安定基金分別編列的4.32億4.03億執行率卻只有慘淡的13.76%"},{"start":4509.103,"end":4526.558,"text":"我想算一下因為你說現在超過是五千名超過六千 從申請到你發下來還需要一點點時間我們來算一下 這都是你們自己的圖表我稍微看了一下 112年當然沒有最新的數據"},{"start":4527.799,"end":4546.82,"text":"失業的青年大概是17.7萬如果你可以告訴我最新大概是幾萬也OK那當時的失業週數為19.6週也就是4到5個月那如果你說這個6000人或是5000人目前大概是3%的失業青年有收回到"},{"start":4548.618,"end":4574.275,"text":"我在講是最後的核發人數這6000人是申請人數我不知道未來核發的比率是多少可是他幫助到的就是3%那我以你最高最高可以領到你講的48000元的話這已經是以這筆錢極大化的狀況也就是每一個人都達到這個條件總預算大概是要支出兩億四千萬元"},{"start":4574.995,"end":4590.206,"text":"那得出來的質詢率大約是16%那依照你看起來任性計畫應該先走嘛任性計畫它給的補助是比較高的所以假使我是青年我一定是優先申請任性計畫而且你也是優先核發這個嘛"},{"start":4591.943,"end":4613.6,"text":"你覺得有沒有可能114年的就業安定計畫預算是執行不完的依照這個進度我先跟委員說明其實比方說就像委員講到我們在11月9號去跟我們的這個大專的學生朋友在講這件事情的時候其實真的現場很多的同學不知道這個計畫"},{"start":4615.714,"end":4627.76,"text":"那這也是為什麼我們其實當時在編列任性計畫的時候很希望能夠給我們比較充足的宣傳預算的原因可是後來這個宣傳預算直接被砍了半直接被砍了半我告訴你我們在這邊針對宣傳的方式已經講過好多遍我現在稍微提醒您一下之前我說您的這個圖卡都是我們人民因應其判的點擊率很差"},{"start":4645.089,"end":4663.784,"text":"怎麼樣的然後你就說這個是我們小編焚膏忌鬼花自己的時間做出來的這個是不需要用到任何的宣傳費所以我們不用去追蹤他的追蹤數這個答案你也講過然後執行率不夠不好的時候你就說沒宣費被砍了這個我們在這個場景也講過"},{"start":4668.027,"end":4694.833,"text":"我現在問你誰是使用網路最高的族群就是這個族群就是你說的最不需要你的小編就可以做出圖卡的這就是使用網路最高的族群我問你這個族群的人這個族群的人是不是知道有這樣子的福利自己都會去宣傳是吧連我都已經遇到北學聯的人回來告訴我說"},{"start":4696.613,"end":4725.973,"text":"您的宣傳也不用錢啊您也可以自己拍影片啊不是嗎您在11月9號您在11月9號的宣傳就非常的好好 我跟你說我剛已經講過了我剛已經講過了你現在的任性計畫裡面其實是原本計畫的強化版我也看完了它的時間比較短然後它的費用多1000塊你的沒薰費本來就可以一併使用可是你卻把它怪罪在"},{"start":4727.013,"end":4749.49,"text":"之後這個任性計畫裡面的媒體人任性計畫的媒體人也讓你編了根據在野黨之前寫的這2000這2000就是非跟就業計畫相關的所以這絕對不是你成效不好的藉口絕對不是你成效不好的藉口這個族群是你最容易用網路就approach的族群"},{"start":4750.01,"end":4776.849,"text":"我們現在是想要好好來討論說為什麼你的執行率不夠好我們是一起來研究這個計劃很好啊我們兩個都很希望越多人領到越好不是嗎跟文說明第一個事情是我們認為這個計劃的執行率可能不是這樣算的他不是拿來去處理所有的這個現在沒有就業的年輕人的這個算法他的這個執行率的計算不是這樣那我們的確看到現在在這個計劃的在在"},{"start":4779.651,"end":4805.624,"text":"年輕社群裡面其實接受度是很高的只要有講到他們一知道他要找工作就很希望能夠申請所以重點是怎麼讓年輕族群能夠知道因為我們發現在執行的過程裡面發現只要讓大家知道他有這個需求他申請的意願就高可是我們的關鍵是怎麼讓更多年輕的族群知道網路是一種方法沒有問題網路我們會直接宣傳我其實我個人我就已經宣傳好多波了"},{"start":4806.304,"end":4823.448,"text":"我自己用我自己的臉書社群我就宣傳好多波了但是我們知道如果要讓更多的年輕朋友知道可能還需要更多的方法跟資源方法是一件事情可是沒有辦法全部都依賴我自己去到每一個學校裡面我先念一下114年勞動部加救安基金沒選費大約是2億元"},{"start":4828.889,"end":4831.751,"text":"115年勞動部加救安基金沒宣費大約是一億三千萬元我今天不是來跟你炒沒宣費的我今天絕對不是來跟你炒沒宣費你自己的就經營的非常好靠你自己宣傳我覺得也可以宣傳很好我是很想知道裡面"},{"start":4844.958,"end":4861.216,"text":"我們一起研究之前我們一直講婦女賽就業計畫你就很誠實的說啊你說後來這些上的課真的太多因此很多婦女非常有意願結果達不到門檻這也不是宣傳做的不好是因為它中間要上的課程太多所以我是來跟你討論第一"},{"start":4863.078,"end":4888.684,"text":"你有沒有可能因為任性的執行率達不到全部做不完後來你原本編的救安基金裡面的會用不完有沒有這個可能這是我第一個要問的問題嘛我剛就已經問了嘛第二個問題就是說你覺得裡面有沒有什麼青年來申請的門檻我們可以調降的因為你之前就曾經官方被講執行率差這件事不是嗎"},{"start":4889.244,"end":4909.59,"text":"跟委員說明第一個我其實覺得這件事情是大家可以是攤開來好好討論比方說之前委員關心婦女的那幾支計畫的確我們認為在裡面執行它的機制的過程有檢討的必要就是它是在執行的操作的門檻上面都有調整的必要這部分我想我們是很坦誠的"},{"start":4910.43,"end":4936.343,"text":"所以我也想知道這邊有沒有你可以調整的在青年的這個執行率就我們目前執行的狀況看到的事情其實我們是把他的門檻有調整原本是要三個月現在我們把他調整成兩個月把三個月調整到兩個月那就我們目前知道在年輕人知道這個計劃他如果他要找工作的時候他知道這個反應的時候他其實他來申請的意願我認為是有一定高的意願的"},{"start":4937.244,"end":4945.839,"text":"可是他有一定高的意願可是為什麼來申請的人數其實我們也認為可以更多但是現在最關鍵的事情是很多年前真的不知道"},{"start":4949.127,"end":4956.851,"text":"沒關係在這個計畫裡面如果是機制有問題我們可以檢討機制我現在想要問你的是第一個問題你也還沒回答我我現在想要問你的是我看到了你把門檻調低了可見門檻就是一個很明顯的因素不然你不會把門檻調低嘛你門檻調低你把任性計畫的錢你如果花不完你救安基金會不會沒辦法還是你救安基金的條件也會跟著改"},{"start":4979.263,"end":4998.155,"text":"這就是一個很好的答案你一直在扯沒宣費但實際上你就是調低了門檻不是嗎跟委員說我現在沒有一定只聚焦在沒宣費可是我只是要說我們認為我們自己判斷在這個計畫上面要讓更多年輕人來申請最重要的關鍵是要讓年輕人知道"},{"start":4999.176,"end":5014.23,"text":"是要讓年限知道這個計畫其實也不會啊你只要告訴我說你調低了門檻以後來申請的人大幅增加多少就表示調低門檻有效啊不是嗎原本是三個月現在調低成兩個月因為在關稅期間我們認為可以把它調低成兩個月"},{"start":5017.333,"end":5030.722,"text":"所以這就是最好的宣傳調低門檻就是最好的宣傳這是我們已經做的對啊 我知道嘛所以我在問你說任性計畫如果在沒有花完的前提是不是大家就不會再用到你原本編的救安基金的這個計畫就這麼簡單的問題耶"},{"start":5035.239,"end":5053.181,"text":"我们现在的确是优先在用任性计划预算所以救援基金有没有可能就不会花完了吗有没有可能有可能用的金额会降低对所以好啊那我们之后我们就来比较这两个执行率有可能你不费炊灰之灵的执行率就提高了好吗我们到时候再拉数据出来看"},{"start":5053.641,"end":5071.163,"text":"我們在這個計畫裡面是我們當然是非常希望把它執行率給再拉高但是的確在執行率計算上面可能不是指不會啊依照你剛剛講的說法其實你一調低馬上就很多人來拉你剛親口講出來的對但是沒有辦法再調得更低因為"},{"start":5072.604,"end":5089.149,"text":"當你把從兩個月要再降低成一個月的時候他可能會產生一些其他最後我們就來攤開來看到底什麼才是關鍵最後我們再把他拉出來看那另外其他剛剛三個你欠我的公文我也在麻煩您可以盡快謝謝你謝謝部長好謝謝陳金輝委員發言接下來請王育明委員發言"},{"start":5101.195,"end":5104.297,"text":"謝謝主席我們有請部長有請洪部長部長早部長早部長我要先跟你討論有關於這個冷氣安裝直栽的這個問題我不曉得你自己有沒有看到光是今年下半年已經連續發生四起這個工人因為安裝冷氣然後墜落死亡的案件"},{"start":5128.836,"end":5155.339,"text":"這個如果跟過去相較起來這個頻率算是增加的很多因為如果從2020年累積到現在是有17件 17人死亡但是光今年的下半年就短短的有4件我不知道你們有沒有去分析為什麼今年下半年這麼密集有這麼多起的因為冷氣安裝而死亡是 我們有觀察到這個事情那至於相關的分析的原因我請我們署長來"},{"start":5156.755,"end":5181.431,"text":"你們有一個一個個案去分析嗎是什麼原因跟委員報告其實冷氣安裝的部分最主要是這個墜落的一個災害那它主要的問題是發生在現在的大概安裝在舊有的建築物就現行的建築物的部分在當時規劃設計的時候沒有考慮到說它的安裝的一個路徑這部分就能源必須要到這個所謂建築物外"},{"start":5182.371,"end":5196.466,"text":"這個部分雖然我們過去已經辦了幾乎每一年都要辦這個宣導會或是講習那看起來是現在這些安裝的這些員工他不曉得說如何去防護自己的安全是年輕的師傅嗎 還是有經驗"},{"start":5198.828,"end":5208.602,"text":"都有 我們現在解決方式是說希望藉助他們的製造商跟通路商還有相關在實際從事電器安裝的這些職業工會我們一起來討論怎麼樣來訂定一個"},{"start":5215.03,"end":5234.046,"text":"一步一步的做這個安全的一個步驟的一個作為指引現在有關於冷氣裝修安全作業有訂指引的新北桃園他們其實有訂但是現在中央其實是沒有一套指引但是光訂指引它其實有一個問題它沒有強制力"},{"start":5234.767,"end":5249.673,"text":"那如果說高空作業安全現在已經爆發這麼多例了那你應該只是一個指引嗎還是應該是訂定標準因為事實上這個2023年立法院的法治局其實就有提出這個報告"},{"start":5251.494,"end":5265.645,"text":"那針對這一點現在如果你們定的還是指引的話他會有的問題就是缺乏強制力他只是一個guideline不是一個原則跟我說明的確因為這樣子的"},{"start":5269.228,"end":5284.59,"text":"安裝冷氣墜落的事件其實他跟我們很多的事業單位他有一個比較明確的現場不太一樣所以其實在執行上面的確現在我們看到很多公協會跟我們反映的事情是其實相關的法規不是沒有但是"},{"start":5286.172,"end":5302.09,"text":"他们现在很欠缺的事情是他们想知道怎么样子去执行这件事情在工程上面的做法在安装上面的做法他们现在很欠缺这件事情所以我们也因为这样我们也看到这个趋势所以我们预计会在今年底来提出指引那应该是19号对不对19号就开会"},{"start":5302.871,"end":5327.023,"text":"11月19號我們就會找相關的工協會一起來討論你們應該是標準不要再是指引因為你們自己的那個議題研析裡面其中有一個探討研析我們找到資料就是這上面的他已經明確指出來了應該要研議訂定具強制力的作業標準加以規範確保冷氣安裝作業的安全"},{"start":5327.703,"end":5345.396,"text":"所以不再是指引 而且之前立法院法治局也希望你們訂定的是標準所以我覺得這個部分不要輕忽我希望這個勞動部 既然你們要訂我覺得就往標準的方向去訂定 這是你們自己的研議出來的結論"},{"start":5346.897,"end":5367.373,"text":"跟我們說明我們會在年底的時候我們會提出一套整體的這個職業安全跟職災的減災的計劃我們去預計年底那這部分其實我們也把它放在我們整體的減災計劃其中部分因為我們的確看到這些安裝家庭的設備那你們標準什麼時候要訂定"},{"start":5370.598,"end":5394.566,"text":"我們年底會來訂定相關其實其實我們的指引並不是單純他不就是這個指引其實他是有一定的有一定的規範效力的對有嗎有違反違反會有罰則嗎指引有罰則嗎有強制力嗎在法規上不是指引實際上就是法規規定裡面的怎麼樣做去符合法規嘛裡面按照指引還是會扣回法規你們有開罰過嗎"},{"start":5397.818,"end":5418.119,"text":"跟委員報告 如果按照這樣表示你們有開罰過跟委員報告 其實現在會定這個再定一步操作是因為他的作業實際上是一般的勞檢是在民宅上一般是很難去找到說他在屋頂或在哪裡作業所以你的法規就應該要再更嚴格一點嘛讓他們就是必須按照你的標準來走嘛"},{"start":5418.479,"end":5448.279,"text":"我覺得就是反向思考就是因為你沒有辦法去勞解所以你更需仰賴一個比較有強制力的法規來要求不管你是任何的人你到家裡去安裝這個也是保護他是保護我們工人的安全跟文說明第一個事情我們在這個議題上面會非常非常需要跟相關的工協會合作這是第一個第二件事情我們當然可以來評估怎麼把這個強制性提高的做法我想把強制性提高的做法我們可以評估"},{"start":5448.619,"end":5473.205,"text":"但的確就像剛剛大家也講到的確實在這樣子的案場裡面勞檢員要直接到現場是比較困難的檢察員到現場是比較困難的到現場他可能已經走了你要強化你的SOP還有你的法令另外一個我希望要求的是我現在已經看到在實務上面因為有一些老師傅就是慢慢退但是新的人進來他不見得那麼的閒熟所以在實務現場其實有這種跟不上的"},{"start":5476.266,"end":5480.869,"text":"那針對這種高風險行業又跟不上青黃不接的我覺得你們的這個相關的職業訓練就應該要去強化配合工協會他們怎麼樣去吸引就是有這樣專業的人進來要不然我很怕我不知道這四例有哪幾例是比較生熟的如果是生熟的更會有這樣的一個問題它對於各方面風險的預判它經驗不足"},{"start":5498.058,"end":5508.945,"text":"如果又沒有一個比較明確的標準跟作業跟這個企業主這邊願意去協助他就是說一個好的職業完整的職業訓練再讓他從事這樣的工作我覺得這個可能都還會再出現所以我希望這個漏洞從訓練強化的角度你們也應該要去強化好不好是好當然我們這個可以跟工協會來合作包括相關的課程"},{"start":5520.353,"end":5548.531,"text":"接下來我要問的是有關於外籍移工權益的問題因為前陣子有這個勞團到勞動部去抗議那他其中一個議題就是提到說這一個因為這家公司呢因為他的員工外籍移工只要懷孕然後就被遣返那這個議題已經不是新議題了2018年到2021年監察院當時就已經糾正過就是說當時的懷孕終止契約離境大概有8000多人"},{"start":5549.071,"end":5564.518,"text":"解約比例六成六那現在呢勞團又再度指出這樣一個問題我要問這個部長的是那現在呢今年以來有多少的外籍移工因為懷孕提前終止契約離境人數有多少這個我們"},{"start":5568.206,"end":5594.555,"text":"我們可能要再統計一下再提供你們平常都不掌握的喔這個數據 這個也是大議題啊這個數據我們可能 老闆已經去你們部裡抗議了你們這一題還沒有準備這個數據可能我們會再要再要再那1995接收到多少這樣的一個投訴就是這些數據我們我們下禮拜前提供下禮拜你們平常都沒有在做統計喔怎麼可以不統計呢這個也是一個重要的議題啊我們會來統計啦 對"},{"start":5597.952,"end":5620.568,"text":"那什麼時候要給本席 什麼時候數字可以出來 應該下週下週好這個要給本席我希望這個部長你要注意這一個是涉及到已經是違反我們現行的這個法令但是實務上還是持續這樣子做這個應該要去檢討不應該再存在這樣的一個現象有數字了是不是有嗎 我們還那個數字並不是完整的數字好"},{"start":5628.14,"end":5644.666,"text":"希望你們多重視這個議題如果在委員會上回答不出來表示不夠重視接下來就是有關於這個我們的企業是不是有涉及到強迫外籍移工勞動的問題喔我想之前的巨大的這個案件讓大家看到"},{"start":5645.647,"end":5664.54,"text":"對企業的影響坦白講也是損失重大因為美方他是採取這個直接查扣貨品的方式喔那到目前為止你作為勞動部部長我們有解了嗎這一個部分應該要怎麼樣去解號因為現在被點名的還有17家的企業"},{"start":5665.14,"end":5683.662,"text":"那會不會都遭遇到同樣的一個狀況我們要怎麼樣事先去預防就是避免這個企業有強迫勞動的情況怎麼去輔導要求他們改善要不然這個其實都是我們台灣的經濟損失也很大勞工的權益也受損這是雙輸的局面"},{"start":5684.082,"end":5701.057,"text":"跟委員說我們會有幾個做法同時在進行第一個部分其實我們現在已經在研議相關的行動指引那這行動指引預計什麼時候出來我想應該也許明年年初或者是一月左右可以出來一月一月可以出來"},{"start":5702.096,"end":5721.322,"text":"我們的行動的指引目前正在研議中當然這部分我們也在跟經濟部這邊在做相關的會同那我們也會跟經濟部這邊來研議其實一個對企業的輔導計畫這是第一點第二點是我們其實現在也同時在針對我們的法規的機制在進行盤點的檢討"},{"start":5723.883,"end":5739.691,"text":"那我們也希望在這個輔導的過程裡面一步一步也了解我們企業目前的狀況然後跟目前要求尤其是跟目前國際的要求之間的落差的情況這部分沒做第三點很重要是我們其實現在其實也希望能夠擴大"},{"start":5742.473,"end":5759.16,"text":"國對國執聘的量能因為尤其是在仲介費相關的議題上面我知道擴大執聘這個我們都非常讚但只是你們現在一直都這個量能一直都是無法放大所以我們其實現在也很重要是我們現在也在跟包括跟企業界"},{"start":5760.12,"end":5781.596,"text":"包括跟來源的母國我們都會針對擴大職聘這邊來簽訂更進一步的MOU或者是希望讓更多的企業可以了解職聘也是他們可以選擇的一個做法因為的確現在國際的要求是認為這個企業如果讓移工來負擔仲介費的話就會陷入這個強迫勞動的疑慮"},{"start":5783.576,"end":5805.075,"text":"所以要避免這個疑慮的話就變成企業可能未來在這些聘僱過程裡面需要更多的承擔那如果企業願意選擇職聘的話這部分也是可以降低他的成本跟支出的做法所以這幾個方面都是我們現在在因應強迫勞動的議題國際上面非常關注強迫勞動議題的時候我們其實很明確的因應的做法那我最近其實也跟很多的企業在做相關的座談"},{"start":5805.865,"end":5824.583,"text":"好我希望這一個指引你要盡快出來你剛說是醫院嗎因為這件事情我認為對台灣整體是有傷害的有對於勞動人權我們形象的傷害有對於我們實質經濟出口的一個傷害所以這件事情因為你又是主責的部長我希望"},{"start":5825.043,"end":5843.33,"text":"你這邊要多花一點心力我們希望我們跟外籍移工都是雙贏不要演變成現在這個企業遭受損失然後勞犬又受到傷害雙數的局面好不好謝謝好謝謝王育民委員發言那接下來請廖偉祥委員發言謝謝主席請洪部長"},{"start":5855.25,"end":5855.991,"text":"有請洪部長部長好 部長好 部長辛苦"},{"start":5864.195,"end":5888.428,"text":"部長我首先第一題想要請問一下對於勞保政府負最終支付責任入法的態度因為今年5月的時候你也在本委員會有宣誓兩大重點第一個是否認現狀撥補就是改革第二個是對於最終責任入法採開放態度並且你也有承諾說三個月內要研議出結果"},{"start":5889.088,"end":5909.676,"text":"那兩週前也有執政黨的委員在問行政院長院長也說對於這個回應也說絕對不會讓國人恐慌那我想要請問部長就是對於你之前在這個5月多的說要研議你們研議的結果如何那對於入法態度又是如何我想其實因為現在朝野的委員都有針對這個議題的提案"},{"start":5910.296,"end":5936.444,"text":"那我想我們對於委員會的審議我們會尊重這個審議的結果那我們基本上不會反對這件事情所以部長不反對入法所以如果說委員會有牌您就會也算是不反對就會支持這樣子我們基本上不會反對這個狀況我們會持開放的態度然後也會尊重委員會的審議對 部長因為你還是跟五個五月多的時候講的講法是一樣啦所以就是想要問再更明確一點可以嗎"},{"start":5937.404,"end":5951.662,"text":"就是政府負最終責任是現在政策很明確的立場政策上很明確的立場所以對於對於入法的部分對於相關的法治法當然我們我們不會表達反對不反對好"},{"start":5953.171,"end":5969.873,"text":"那其實跟五月的時候差不多但是您現在就是更等於是說更應該說態度上面更可以認為說假如委員會討論來排審來做這件事情的話勞動部的立場是不反對並且是可以配合往前推進入法這件事是嗎"},{"start":5971.553,"end":5997.733,"text":"這就是我們目前政策的立場所以我們當然不會對這件事情進行反對好 謝謝部長那再來部長我也要問一下因為首先我也要謝謝部長其實前幾週我們在做這個外送平台相關專法討論的時候不管是專報 公聽會其實大家也都是正面的積極的態度我也感受到部長也有這個積極的態度但是本席要在這裡問請問一下你們的版本"},{"start":6001.996,"end":6026.476,"text":"預計是什麼時候要預告我們希望這一兩週 這一兩週嗎可不可以再具體一點因為 這一週有機會嗎還是 更為說明因為我們其實真的在做最後的幾個利害相關方的意見的收整尤其是裡面涉及到很多法制性的文字所以因為就行政部門來說我們提出一個版本會需要比較"},{"start":6027.978,"end":6042.594,"text":"會有一定的程序跟嚴謹謝謝部長我都尊重包括現在這些相關的條文的文字我自己也都在確認但因為今天禮拜三所以我認為可能應該會是在這一兩週所以最晚不會超過下個禮拜五就會預告對不對我希望是這樣子"},{"start":6043.735,"end":6070.552,"text":"那我還是希望可以部長可以盡速一點如果最後這幾天確認一下我想這個也很多期待但是關於這個部分我們的同仁每天都為這件事情所以我特別這個表達這個我覺得是肯定也希望說我們可以再加速一點但是因為你也說到最後的階段所以我們再問一點細節的部分其實有關於這個部分我想大家最關心的其中之一是所謂最低報酬的部分"},{"start":6071.152,"end":6088.137,"text":"那我想要請問一下部長你們目前的版本有沒有預計採什麼樣的方案究竟是最低的這個時薪薪資保障呢還是是所謂的每單三分之一最低基本工資的這個限制我想要請問還是有其他的方案"},{"start":6089.037,"end":6104.616,"text":"這個部分我是想要追問一下因為其實這個是關鍵中的關鍵我想旁邊也都在點頭其實委員我們現在正在最後收斂就是針對這個部分因為每一個做法說實話這裡面沒有完美的做法每一個做法都有他的優點跟缺點"},{"start":6105.757,"end":6124.157,"text":"都有点跟缺点就是刚才在讲到委员刚才讲到的几个保障的做法都有它的优点跟缺点所以我们也是在最后评估这个保障的做法的方向目前也是对所以我就是特别想问你们大概有没有什么方向就是说因为你在评估其实委员你问得很精准其实这就是我们现在为什么"},{"start":6125.098,"end":6138.565,"text":"還需要一點點時間再去評估這個每一個優缺每個做法因為對於不同的外送員來說不同處境的外送員來說可能每一個做法都有不一樣的效果其實那我再進一步問一下"},{"start":6139.83,"end":6154.197,"text":"那你們有沒有去真的很精準的計算因為有關於最低報酬的部分其實這個跟他在真正的成本譬如說外送員在做這個跑單的這個成本也有很大的關係對吧那你們有沒有去精準的計算"},{"start":6155.017,"end":6180.719,"text":"包含他當然至少是外顯的成本那隱藏的成本當然也要算進去我想要請問你們有沒有去精準的計算他們現在的成本是多少我所謂外送員因為外送員的成本對 外送員的成本其實你各方的成本都要掌握啦你才知道說有沒有人不願意釋放利潤好 那我先針對外送員的部分你有沒有去掌握因為這跟你要訂哪一個方向也有很大的關係"},{"start":6181.44,"end":6206.605,"text":"其實這部分因為交通部這邊因為針對比方說你機車 使用機車相對的成本 比如油耗或者是你要去做相關的維修這部分其實交通部有把它相對機車的成本給算出來那請問有沒有 你現在有沒有資料我們當然有啊但是詳細的數字交通部這邊有提供可不可以提供給本席辦公室因為我其實有精算了我大概提供給你們 假設是"},{"start":6208.385,"end":6222.581,"text":"油耗燃油的費用我算起來一年他假設每日他是很用心全力的在跑好了高度的依賴者他一年下來燃油費可能是四萬五千八"},{"start":6223.322,"end":6238.927,"text":"那再來保養費可能是一萬三千多其實這個還不含換輪胎可能是換機油的部分然後再來有折舊對不對這個機車的折舊費兩萬六千多那再來還有包含他的通訊費用然後以及他的設備費用"},{"start":6240.447,"end":6256.693,"text":"還有他的勞保費用 健保費用然後還有強制險或者是意外險等等其實一年下來他的所有費用大約是11萬左右那11萬如果用全台的勞工時數來算"},{"start":6258.234,"end":6272.662,"text":"你如果是除以2000個小時左右好了你要除以2030個也可以他其實每一個小時的成本就是五六十塊對不對所以你師長也在旁邊一直頻頻點頭他大概就是五六十塊每個小時他要跑就要負擔"},{"start":6273.923,"end":6292.613,"text":"所以其實這個部分一定要有精準的掌握你才知道怎麼訂定所以我剛剛要表達的是這個意思另外還要精準的掌握平台它每一單是多少錢因為它每一單目前我以本席掌握的數據每一單大概是300塊可是它還會另外收配送費"},{"start":6293.553,"end":6315.721,"text":"好所以其實我們現在要我特別要問部長這一塊就是因為現在可以感覺出來推到現在會有帶風向的狀況就是說我們要怎麼避免在推動因為我想這是朝野大家都有共識啊但你要怎麼避免在推動的過程中這個相關的平台就說我就是全力全部轉嫁給消費者這件事情部長你們有沒有什麼看法"},{"start":6317.247,"end":6343.333,"text":"跟文說明第一個因為這個外送的這個事業這個數位平台的運作的狀況他其實涉及到了就像之前講到的四方所以我們其實在現在的專法裡面其實我們當然也是希望能夠去處理一方面是在四方的大家都講四方的平衡但是我們也知道在這裡面相對比較強勢的是平台"},{"start":6343.933,"end":6359.49,"text":"最弱勢的是我認為最弱勢的是外送員沒錯那怎麼樣保障外送員的基本權益保障基本權益同時對於其他的包括消費者包括對合作商家他們的權益也透過定型化契約的方式去做予以一些"},{"start":6362.034,"end":6375.533,"text":"部長這個我想我們都討論很多但是您現在講到這裡還是比較屬於大方向指引或是比較空泛一點但我相信你們既然到專法最後階段你們應該掌握更多的細節所以剛剛我有說到就是有關於"},{"start":6376.754,"end":6400.483,"text":"剛剛的成本 外送員的成本以及外送平台他每一單到底多少錢我剛剛也提供給你本席我不是主管機關但是我也去研究國際上的資料所以我告訴你說可能以台灣來講他每一單Maybe是300塊還要再另外加配送費那你一定都要去掌握你才有辦法權衡我們有這個跟相關的主管機關其實他們也提供相關的數據所以部長我要跟你說一件事情就是我假設"},{"start":6401.303,"end":6426.27,"text":"用一單300塊來簡單來算一下就是現在外送員會被加單所以他可能20分鐘會被送三單就要求他送三單可是他也有拿出這個相關的記錄結果他送了三單之後他只收到45塊好 那我就用數學算給你聽現在平均他跟台灣的店家收費的乘數可能是30%到35%所以他三單 我剛剛說一單假設平均是300塊好了就是900塊"},{"start":6427.671,"end":6439.564,"text":"900塊如果他跟每一個商店抽了35%好了就算是30%好了也就多少 300塊嘛對不對他還有另外的配送費可是他最終只給了外送員可能是45塊 50塊"},{"start":6442.788,"end":6467.416,"text":"所以我必須要跟部長特別今天要再特別講這個議題就是說我們在推動專法的時候你剛剛說要平衡四方利益嘛我想你也最擔心的就是說你推下去之後平台將所有的費用說我要提高這個消費者要負擔更多我相信你也有在擔心這個事所以我今天要告訴你的就是說為什麼要把這些東西算得很清楚推出來給社會大眾溝通就是說"},{"start":6468.669,"end":6489.47,"text":"推下去之後照理說不可能平台應該也不可能全部都轉嫁到消費者身上我跟委員說明其實委員在上週公聽會的時候其實也有講到希望平台業者要提供相關的數據大家去做確認所以這時候也會有各種算法比方說委員也提供你花了心力去做的算法"},{"start":6491.13,"end":6512.775,"text":"因為這關乎到運輸成本的部分所以運輸成本的部分交通部也會提供他相關的估算的方法來讓我們知道所以這裡面會有各種不同的算法我覺得彼此可能需要做一些確認謝謝 所以部長我也希望您可以提供相關的數據既然他們提供給您可不可以也提供給本席辦公室好不好那今天可不可以就今天下班前就先提供給本席辦公室你們現在手上有的相關資料"},{"start":6513.955,"end":6540.481,"text":"明天 這一週我們提供這一週提供給本席好不好我們可以確認一下因為我其實研究了各國的案例我本席是蠻目前看起來蠻推薦的這個紐約的模式我覺得看起來是它既保有了彈性給平台它對於外送員又有基本的有效的時薪的保障那我建議說不曉得你們有沒有研究這個模式所以請你們可以去了解一下"},{"start":6541.38,"end":6563.56,"text":"有跟委員說我們現在對這模式也非常熟悉那的確它在一定的保障下但是它的確也會有一些相應的配套比方說它也會遇到平台會設整體外送員的總量的管制其實有這種狀況所以我要跟委員說明的事情是其實目前我們看到的幾個保障的方向每個保障的方向都有它的優點缺點"},{"start":6565.097,"end":6591.909,"text":"很難有一個一個保障的方向或一個保障的方案他是所有部分都是因為我們只能夠選最佳的對沒錯所以我們只能選最佳的可是因為對不同的外送甚至對不同情境他跑的比較少的或比較全職在跑的他可能對同時對一個部分的優缺點來說他的感受會不一樣所以這也是我們必須總體評估的一部分所以我剛才一直特別問你們現在往哪個方向去是是是好所以但是你們還是沒有回答本席不過沒關係請你們把"},{"start":6593.755,"end":6621.184,"text":"你如果現在不方便講請你們把你們相關的數據和你們大概的方向我們可以給本席辦公室然後我們來討論如果相信我們朝野都希望這件事情有一個最佳解我們認為這個議題一定是需要朝野合作的然後需要有一個最佳解希望可以提供給本席辦公室好那再來呢我知道時間到了但是最後問一下有關於這個跨國勞動力精進方案"},{"start":6622.605,"end":6643.941,"text":"我想要先請問一下部長本方案應該是希望可以提供加薪給勞工讓勞工可以加薪理論上是希望給本國籍的基層勞工加薪對吧對就是相對低薪的不是高薪的不是主管對是要低薪的是在比較是在企業的最在薪資的最低層的部分那我們會來確認跟檢視這部分"},{"start":6646.883,"end":6673.178,"text":"謝謝我相信這樣這個基本上的政策目的也是希望這樣所以我們也希望讓基層勞工有感加薪然後加薪有感提升整體的薪資水準但是我也想要進一步問那你怎麼防止雇主以薪資結構調整的方式來避免實質加薪好譬如說他提高底薪但同時減少其他的津貼補助又或者是因為明年上路所以他現在預期他是不是有可能提早我說我就先"},{"start":6674.119,"end":6693.133,"text":"我就先這個調薪下來然後未來再加薪回去有沒有可能發生這類的事情啊那發生了之後你們要怎麼去檢核查核跟文說明齁其實在整個企業的經營裡面他的薪資結構當然包括很多部分可是我想我們會透過"},{"start":6694.654,"end":6709.78,"text":"比方說像我們的投保的勞保的資料來去做相關的檢核那如果我們發現他有這個假加薪或者是這種規避的做法的話當然我們就會去撤銷他的名額那第二個也是剛才委員在前一張其實有看到"},{"start":6710.78,"end":6726.041,"text":"我們其實是對於他如果增加的名額在三年後他其實還是要針對一定的就是同樣等同的名額再加薪一次一樣是兩千塊那這個加薪的幅度的高或低其實這當然我們做了很多的討論"},{"start":6727.623,"end":6733.391,"text":"因為如果也會有外界說那是不是有可能把這個加薪的幅度再高一點比方說我們現在2000塊有時候是不是要3000塊5000塊可是當3000塊5000塊的時候很可能這個會受到加薪的本國勞工就會變少"},{"start":6743.004,"end":6760.594,"text":"甚至加薪的幅度更高的時候企業就會產生更高的去做某一種規避行為的誘因所以這裡面的確這個加薪的幅度也是我們反覆在討論怎麼樣是一個相對比較適當的幅度的做法但是我們另外也加了三年後還要再加一次的這樣的做法"},{"start":6761.414,"end":6787.228,"text":"其實部長這個問題跟剛剛我們在討論所謂外送員專法這對於全面的盤點或數據的盤點也有蠻大的關係嘛譬如說各個產業嘛所以像你剛剛說的為什麼你訂的是2000塊不是5000塊你可能希望的是全面大家都可以更多人 更多人的勞工可以受到加薪嘛對不對 對所以我就想問因為其實還是有很多的民團在質疑勞動部有沒有全面詳細的盤點"},{"start":6789.289,"end":6811.637,"text":"那請問你們現在盤點的有沒有很具體的相關數字可以提供給本席辦公室各個產業然後以及就是你們目前在做這個方案的時候你背後的數據支撐是什麼跟文說明其實如果從這張投影片其實大家我們可以看得出來我們在方案的時候很重要是本勞的權益優先其實過去在開放外籍移工的時候"},{"start":6812.797,"end":6830.274,"text":"就會去做一定的成本的要求盡量避免可能會對於本國勞工的權益造成影響以前可能是叫做透過像extra這樣的做法就是他可能要多繳救安費的做法那現在其實我們提供的是有點像是另外一種extra他是利用幫本國勞工加薪的做法"},{"start":6831.155,"end":6848.59,"text":"去取得多一点的名额当然我想我们其实这边也会设定查核的机制透过我们在劳保里面的资料去查核所以一样就是说如果发现是有规避行为或者是假加薪的话我们其实就会直接取消它这个名额"},{"start":6849.11,"end":6877.2,"text":"好 謝謝部長我其實就是想要說因為做任何的政策你們我相信你們背後要有相關的數據做支撐所以希望部長可不可以也提供給本席辦公室你目前針對這個精進方案你們背後用什麼數據去支撐說你們想要這樣做包含著各個產業究竟缺多少工然後你這樣子加薪各產業受惠的多少我相信這個你們應該都有做精進的很詳細的數據分析可不可以提供給本席辦公室"},{"start":6877.62,"end":6893.924,"text":"我們把我們怎麼樣去考慮這件事情的一些原則讓委員這邊可以知道 好 謝謝好 謝謝廖委長委員發言那委員會宣告在邱正軍委員詢答後休息10分鐘接下來請邱正軍委員發言主席好"},{"start":6906.38,"end":6936.117,"text":"我等部長喝水 部長請 請部長謝謝邱委員部長好我想請問一下 你們今年有編預算9月說要去大陸 結果有去嗎後來有去嗎應該是沒有吧重規有沒有去 沒有沒去啊那你們今年就沒去 為什麼明年又編了呢又編了9月份要去啊"},{"start":6938.422,"end":6954.017,"text":"其實這個每年編列這個預算並不是說每年就一定會有計劃會去明年是APEC明年會去 對所以你們也覺得說過去不會危險嘛這正常交流不會造成這個威脅會不會會不會擔心啊"},{"start":6956.479,"end":6973.928,"text":"我們希望這個中國政府不應該把這個他們會反對你去嗎不會吧正常的交流上面對啊 他們會嗎應該不會吧所以你們才敢去啊不然你敢去嗎這其實都是我們認為其實它是可以創造"},{"start":6975.285,"end":6993.767,"text":"台灣正常有序交流的一種做法所以當然我們這個希望中國應該要我們總統講說今天是沈伯陽這樣子國際交流的原則對啊 總統好像有講過說今天是沈伯陽 明年就是你所以我相信你是部長不會明知道有危險還讓同仁去嘛 對不對"},{"start":6994.588,"end":7021.905,"text":"表示說正常交流我們還是可以說開大門走大路的我們希望一個對等有序的交流中國政府應該要秉持一個相對比較開放的心胸讓一個所以他現在反對你去嗎現在應該還沒有這樣子的表達還沒嗎現在沒有這樣的表達但我們希望一個正常有序對等的交流"},{"start":7022.816,"end":7043.655,"text":"然後這個我講這個也沒別的意思就是說希望這個就是說本來也沒那麼嚴重不要用這種情緒這個勒索來嚇我們台灣人其實正常交流應該是沒有問題的那我們接下一題就是說在你們的預算裡面勞動資訊業務這個部分主要就是電腦相關設備跟資安對吧"},{"start":7047.931,"end":7070.669,"text":"應該是那113年決算你們大概花了1000多萬那114年就是今年編列的1400萬元到了明年115年你們編列的這個預算大概8700多萬 暴增6.2倍的原因是什麼部長你都不知道"},{"start":7073.5,"end":7098.412,"text":"這邊跟委員補充一下就是我們原本在勞動業務的共通性的那些資訊原本我們是放在就業安定基金費裡面那因為後來重新檢討之後決定這些比較跟就業安定基金相關比較沒有直接關係的就往公務員所以你這些錢要做什麼一樣也是在維運整個勞動業務的共同資訊平台"},{"start":7101.013,"end":7124.748,"text":"那是什麼東西你可以講清楚一點嗎其實狀況是這樣就是因為過去其實相關的支出其實是用救安基金在支出可是我們從今年初從去年底開始檢討救安基金的使用以後我們就認為有些如果可以用公務預算支出的就盡量的移到公務預算支出所以我們去跟族種去爭取"},{"start":7125.871,"end":7149.283,"text":"一些其實應該其他部會每一年都有大概六七千七八千萬的這個預算要去換電腦比方說很多系統不要違法雇主的查詢因為在勞動這邊其實有很多相關的資訊系統必須去做維護更新甚至大家對於很多的揭露有更多的現在有更多的要求部長你們你們這樣做我當然是贊成就是說你們不應該在就就按機會這個基金裡面來動用這些錢"},{"start":7152.364,"end":7180.564,"text":"那你把編列出來 這八千多萬那我覺得你每年在編列八千多萬元的這個部分呢應該是構置什麼防火牆啊 文書軟體啊資料庫軟體更新 這樣吧是這樣嗎也不止也不止 還買什麼東西就是包括系統的所以你們有細項嗎你們有細項嗎我們可以還是整包 一包就是八千七百多萬不是不是不是不要像買福袋一樣 裡面什麼都有啊"},{"start":7183.906,"end":7201.996,"text":"這個治安的問題很嚴重治安沒有把它當作福袋我是覺得當然啦這個賬戶越清楚越好治安的工作要做得扎實不是靠像福袋不要買了就一直撈就有那部長那我再問你這幾天你們召開這個不是我問別的好了就你召開這個"},{"start":7204.345,"end":7212.416,"text":"勞動力政策的諮商小組會議同時決定要打開製造業跟一般營造業的移工限制確定要這樣做嗎"},{"start":7215.52,"end":7238.047,"text":"我們其實這次打開的主要是針對技術人力的上限就是我們把技術人力原本25%的上限然後把它打開我看到你的兩個都是移工的政策重大鬆綁不只是調整配額 直接會改變產業用工的結構除了這場會議之外 你們還做了哪些具體的評估"},{"start":7239.645,"end":7263.934,"text":"呃 現在委員你在簡報上面其實這是針對營造業這是針對那時候7月的時候那時候應該是丹納斯颱風那在台南造成很大的這個很多的 你們是因為災後重建嘛對不對 當時所以營造業的部分是如果營造業業者下的移工投入到災後重建的話他如果需要增加名額的話不受這15000名的限制所以不受嘛 那你現在你要打開放多少"},{"start":7265.154,"end":7280.506,"text":"這個其實要看是要看營造業或者是目的世界主管其實應該是說我看了你們今年的這個來統計結算到9月那大概是9000多人申請大概是有9000多個名額那你的上限是15000"},{"start":7281.787,"end":7304.395,"text":"一萬五嗎那你就還沒達到啊還沒達到標那你的意思為什麼要去又要跳過這個機制來跟我們說明一萬五的名額是我們已經開放的對但是確實之前有那目前是9680的對之前因為之前我們一直跟這個國土署在討論怎麼讓這個一萬五的名額能夠更有效的運用"},{"start":7305.68,"end":7325.128,"text":"那但是現在在討論的災後的同路的名額跟這一萬五的名額比較是兩件事情也就是說那我請問部長假如這個災後重建是不可能持續在做嗎不是永久都有嗎那如果災後之後就是他這個災後重建完成之後那這些一共怎麼辦"},{"start":7326.807,"end":7355.335,"text":"當然就會留下來但是這也是我們希望能夠給當初願意幫忙災後重建的營造廠的一個誘因因為其實在這個重建過程裡面需要很多營造廠來協助因為你災後重建完成之後你們又把它留下來嘛那乾脆就不要用災後來當幌子嘛對不對委員這絕對不是幌子那你用因為如果沒有投入災後重建的業者的話就沒有辦法享有這個可能這個天花板的調整"},{"start":7356.275,"end":7374.323,"text":"所以他們我現在的重點是在說你現在讓他進來了進來之後你又讓他回到一般的勞工一般的製造業或者是其他地方去嘛對不對你會讓他留下來因為沒有那麼多災後重建啊跟委員說明他其實他如果做完災後重建以後這個營造廠他還是要有工程啊"},{"start":7377.845,"end":7390.225,"text":"所以他就可以繼續做那他如果這個工程他不是災後不是因為災後重建所以都可以做就對了那你幹嘛不直接開放就讓這些營造業能夠申請"},{"start":7393.513,"end":7418.368,"text":"跟委員說明目前其實我們已經開放1.5萬人那現在我們是鼓勵當初願意投入到災後重建這有公益性質的協助的工作的營造廠讓他們在名額上面有多一點的我覺得這個是多此一舉直接從那邊來管理這樣會不會比較好因為我擔心說你這個等於是你用這個災區重建當成長期鬆綁的一個藉口"},{"start":7419.388,"end":7444.51,"text":"那到時候你這個一萬五千人如果申請已經達標了那後來又利用這個然後一直無限上綱嗎那這個就沒完沒了委員這個在區的重建在這個在區重建的工作其實它需要的工程量跟它需要的勞動力量真的比較大所以我們用這個方式我是不反對你們去開放這個但是還是要做限制不要說這個臨時開放變成永久使用"},{"start":7445.271,"end":7457.135,"text":"我們會做一定的把控對啊 我覺得你們辦法還是要定出來我們會做一定的把控但是這個打開的措施你這邊開一個口這邊又開一個到時候兩個都這個打開的措施比較是為了讓"},{"start":7460.123,"end":7489.283,"text":"營造廠能夠願意投入到再去重建有多一點的誘因當初的利益是在這件事情上面的最後一個啦你們說的政策是要幫本國有一個政策就是說幫本國勞工加薪結果是一個本國勞工加薪2000塊你們就可以多申請一個移工這樣是嗎你們的方法是這樣嗎要看哪個行業目前是在製造業部分是幫製造業嗎一幫一個本國相對低薪的勞工加薪的話他可以取得多一個就兩天就可以了是不是對那為什麼是兩天"},{"start":7490.664,"end":7515.346,"text":"第一個我們也評估過要不要其他更高的金額怎麼評估的但是第一個我們認為這2000的我覺得很奇怪為什麼要2000塊如果高一點的話可能會讓願意去為本勞工加薪的企業的人數會在減少所以我們是主要那未來你們怎麼去督促怎麼去監督這些業者我們會確認在我們的系統裡面去確認有確實加到本勞的加薪以後"},{"start":7516.127,"end":7540.286,"text":"你才能夠我們才會給他名額的合法會不會他們表面上加了之後然後呢加班費啊津貼什麼獎金都壓下來的話呢如果我們去查核如果假加薪的狀況的話對這種變相的你們怎麼去查如果我們透過我們的系統去查核查到之後咧如果他有假加薪的狀況下我們就會取消他的名額有沒有法則我們就目前說就是用取消名額的方式就取消那這樣大家不會啪抓到再說嗎不是這樣嗎"},{"start":7543.895,"end":7556.262,"text":"會停止兩年申請我覺得這個政策要明確啦好不好讓大家能好做事好 謝謝部長好 謝謝邱委員 謝謝部長那我們現在休息十分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":8313.052,"end":8320.624,"text":"好 各位同仁請各位同仁官員請請就座好不好"},{"start":8322.068,"end":8348.422,"text":"我是不是請我們圖委員還有我們這個勞動部相關的官員我們能不能起立一下好不好就是剛剛早上有特別從委員提到就是胃環委員會在此超過25年的我們這個蔡鋒如科員因病來過世畢竟她在立法院也在胃環盡心盡力所以是不是我們一起來"},{"start":8349.653,"end":8356.243,"text":"為他禱告 也默哀一分鐘表示對他這幾年來的這樣的一個投入跟付出謝謝 我們現在開始"},{"start":8422.981,"end":8432.304,"text":"好 謝謝大家 我們希望大家的意念讓他可以無怪無礙 一路好走 謝謝接下來請突巡局委員來做詢問好 謝謝主席 那麻煩請我們勞動部洪部長還有勞發署黃署長還有署長"},{"start":8458.679,"end":8481.013,"text":"土委好好 洪部長因為最近我們在臉書社團有看到一個具名的貼文那針對這個當事人描述他透過我們台中的某仲介來聘用家庭看護移工來照顧家裡中風的長者那他在看到這個"},{"start":8482.438,"end":8500.449,"text":"他聘用的家庭看護移工他履歷中有載名他是有經驗的照顧照護工作長者有照護工作經驗的那後來他實際聘用之後他發現這個聘用的家庭看護移工"},{"start":8501.86,"end":8527.025,"text":"照顾能力跟卫生观念都很差而且也没有能力为病患备餐后来询问过这个家庭看护乙工之后这个乙工也亲口承认他这个照顾经验照护经验是印尼仲介方编造伪造的事实上他完全没有经验也是第一次出国第一次做看护"},{"start":8527.825,"end":8551.191,"text":"那後來當事人在協調廢聘跟賠償損失的協調過程中最後問這個仲介負責人他說他是轉達印尼仲介方的履歷他並沒有能力去核實 他只是推薦所以最後這仲介方也只同意"},{"start":8552.273,"end":8578.947,"text":"退還他當初的仲介費27000塊那對於這履歷不實所造成他造戶成本完全沒有處理那在這60天到90天的空窗期當事人勢必要去花更多高額的錢去請這個台籍看護那後來據我們了解這一家仲介公司其實在"},{"start":8580.322,"end":8608.257,"text":"我們的評鑑裡面我們勞動部的評鑑裡面它五年都是最高分的A級還有兩年還是GU列為免評那其中在顧客服務裡面它幾乎是拿滿分那我想請問一下部長那像發生這樣子的事情它的履歷偽造編造不實造成我們當事人他這些的損失"},{"start":8609.98,"end":8628.588,"text":"那到底是誰的責任是跟委員說明有關這個仲介提供不實資料的部分依照救福法第40條第一項第8款可以大聲一點嗎好像太小聲依照就業服務法第40條第一項第8款"},{"start":8630.612,"end":8651.355,"text":"對於接受委任辦理聘僱外國人之申請許可招募引進或管理事項提供不實資料的部分我們是可以處罰的依照第65條我們的罰環可以處30到100萬那這是罰環的部分那行政處罰的部分我們也可以視況處以停業跟最重可以到廢止"},{"start":8652.426,"end":8667.079,"text":"所以其實對於仲介所提供這個履歷不實他是有罰款的那為什麼我們台灣這個仲介說他說這是印尼仲介提供給他的他沒有辦法核實他也沒有辦法處理"},{"start":8668.48,"end":8689.829,"text":"他只是負責轉介 負責推薦那是這樣子的嗎有關這個部分我想我們依照這樣的個案我們都會交由地方政府去查查那如果查查確實他的資料是提供不實資料的時候我想我們會有後續的處分所以其實我們本身裡面是有這個罰則的是可以處理的那我想請問一下如果這個案例這個過程是事實那到底是"},{"start":8690.97,"end":8717.302,"text":"台灣仲介方有責任嘛他只是把仲介費推完就沒事了嗎如果說海外的仲介也有過失那原則上我們對海外仲介也有管理我們也會處以一部分的停止或是撤銷他的認可那像說台灣這邊的仲介他只是推薦轉介他沒有核實的義務是這樣子嗎我想可能這個還是要就個案事實去做釐清看責任的歸屬是哪一方"},{"start":8718.482,"end":8733.36,"text":"对啊所以刚委员有提到说有关雇主的损失那因为基本上这是属于民事契约所以雇主一样可以向劳工提出求偿所以我觉得我们劳动部尤其劳发组这边要看一下因为我们检视你们"},{"start":8734.461,"end":8755.761,"text":"私立就業服務機構從事跨國人力仲介服務品質評鑑指標裡面針對顧客服務的這個項目裡面並沒有要求仲介必須查核移工的履歷提供正確的訊息所以難怪在你們評鑑裡面它在顧客服務幾乎是快滿分"},{"start":8757.422,"end":8778.019,"text":"還有在勞發署提供的外勞與仲介契約僱主與仲介委任契約的範本裡面也沒有要求外勞有義務提供真實履歷或者仲介有核實外勞履歷的義務條款所以契約裡面也沒有這個條款你們評鑑裡面也沒有要求他們要這樣去做"},{"start":8779.308,"end":8804.706,"text":"報告委員基本上這是基本法尊那KPI可能會針對需要在特別強化的部分去做核分加減分那委員的指教的部分我想我們目前也正在針對評鑑指標全面的在進行檢討那剛剛之前也有委員提到說這個評鑑的指標可能沒有辦法做出良誘之間的這個範這個這個篩略所以我想我們會針對評鑑的部分"},{"start":8807.89,"end":8828.602,"text":"所以這邊我也跟部長來講一下那針對你看我們剛剛看他從評鑑裡面也沒有你們的契約裡面也沒有所以我希望勞動部跟勞發署一定重視一下針對應該從評鑑還有我們的定期化契約裡面是不是要去做一個適度的修正因為我相信這絕對不是個案"},{"start":8830.303,"end":8857.179,"text":"因為據我們所知發生很多類似的情況所以是不是應該要再加強這些的規範避免類似的狀況再發生是的 謝謝委員好 那請我們部長還有署長再多幫忙好 這已經我相信這絕對不是個案了是好 那再接下來要為我們桃園市針對我們缺工 缺了很多客運司機來請命那"},{"start":8861.407,"end":8883.749,"text":"針對我們客運業開放橋外生留台擔任駕駛這一部分其實不是桃園市缺工缺駕駛據我們了解全台的公共客運缺司機已經成為事實那尤其桃園市本期的選區其實都是屬於比較偏鄉那後來"},{"start":8886.82,"end":8902.909,"text":"他們為了要增加客運的班次才發現不是不增加有經費 有車子 可是沒有司機那很多偏鄉都仰賴這個公車公共客運所以這個沒有司機已經造成很大的困擾"},{"start":8903.729,"end":8921.547,"text":"那後來我們也了解其實勞動部本來在今年初有公告要開放橋外生留台從事客運駕駛工作可是後來臨時又在五月喊卡好像是擔心橋外生的語言能力是否足以擔任客運駕駛"},{"start":8922.788,"end":8939.564,"text":"那這邊我也跟部長來說明一下據我跟桃園市政府溝通了解過桃園市政府說其實針對這一部分他已經全套的培訓方案都已經出來了那針對小客車駕駛的駕照他持有要兩年"},{"start":8940.205,"end":8959.294,"text":"然後這橋外生畢業前要取得華語文能力檢定基礎級資格的大士橋生然後經過客運業者面試之後隨即可以參加授訓及就業培訓的計畫而且馬上給他薪水高達五萬元所以"},{"start":8960.074,"end":8976.716,"text":"基本上這部分他們報名上已經確實有這些人也不會說有外界擔心橋外生語言能力不足而衍生執行服務的風險那針對我們桃園市交通局他說目前"},{"start":8978.151,"end":9006.086,"text":"他開放僑生已經預先報名就等中央頒布修正法案他就可以縮短人力補充的時程待法令頒布之後就能馬上加入授訓的行列那所以針對這部分勞動部是不是可以研議針對若干的縣市先開放試行舉辦也就是我們試點的概念是不是這部分部長可以幫忙解決"},{"start":9007.106,"end":9034.369,"text":"缺司机的问题因为这些相关的这个业务那开放与否其实是会需要目的事业主管机关来向劳动部申请那因为刚刚委员在讲到很多部分因为大家之所以讨论到他的原能力有个部分就是要去处理大家会很在意这个交通安全上面的问题或运输安全上的问题所以之前我们也跟交通部这边去讨论也就是说意思是说"},{"start":9036.15,"end":9055.396,"text":"如果今天就像剛剛有這樣子需求的業者他可以跟交通部這邊來提出那跟交通部一起來討論那到底用什麼方式那可以來確認他的在交通安全上面的語言的能力或者相關風險上面的管理風險上面的避免的這個狀況那"},{"start":9057.837,"end":9079.64,"text":"再來向勞動部這邊來提出申請所以我剛有跟部長這邊說明因為你們那時候喊咖的原因就是說擔心橋外生的語言能力是否足以擔任客運的駕駛跟委員說明當初是因為確實外界有這樣的聲音那這個聲音主要是因為是不是大家會說這個語言方面的能力或者是"},{"start":9080.481,"end":9105.939,"text":"可能它相關因為確實運輸業尤其是司機它其實涉及到是運輸跟交通安全上面的問題它甚至會比小客車它的在開大的遊覽車它的挑戰也再高一點所以怎麼樣去確認在交通安全上面的風險那這個部分會需要可能相關有需求的業者跟交通部這邊來討論因為"},{"start":9107.26,"end":9122.661,"text":"勞動部這邊不太有辦法能夠去主管交通安全要怎麼把關的部分所以這部分基本上剛剛也跟部長報告其實相關的疑慮他們已經有提出解決的方案對 但是我說這部分可能要跟目的世界主管機關再去討論"},{"start":9123.362,"end":9149.89,"text":"交通部勞動部然後假設今天桃園市政府說其實他已經預先報名人已經準備好他配套也做好可是因為他可能要跟目的還是要去跟目的事業主管機關去做這部分的提出所以演繹好到時候再由目的事業主管機關來向勞動部來提出申請好那如果有機會的話就我們就用4點4半的方式來做不像我們還是因為涉及到安全的問題大家都會比較謹慎所以這還是要請交通部也要幫忙"},{"start":9150.811,"end":9166.669,"text":"對 因為交安的部分真的這不是勞工部可以很專業能夠好 那時間問題那我再簡單快速問一下因為我們目前也是缺工的問題啦針對救福法規規定藍領外勞三年工作許可"},{"start":9167.17,"end":9191.69,"text":"其實這從民國86年修正到現在已經大概有30年我們現在接到很多工商團體倡議是不是這三年續聘的機制目前很難符合產業缺工的問題是不是可以把這個三年的時間延長延長到四年那也可以減少雇主到期續聘的行政成本"},{"start":9192.27,"end":9218.948,"text":"也可以適度調整延長工作許可的時間對於移工、故工我們覺得都是有利的那這部分是不是有機會來調整來延長跟文說明的確在這個許可期間的延限部分坦白說不同的出發點就有不同的看法可能從工商界來說比較希望拉長可是從勞工團體的角度移工團體的角度希望縮短"},{"start":9220.117,"end":9235.68,"text":"可是現在很確實 其實你看我們去工廠工商團體很多真的很確實都是缺工非常嚴重對 所以我表達的意思是說確實這邊各種不同的出發點利害相關方會有不同的看法"},{"start":9236.894,"end":9261.845,"text":"所以這個企業界希望拉長但是老公主管團體希望縮短對 那你去評估一下因為我們看一下109年監察院的調查報告其實超過三年以上停留台灣的移工其實已經超過58%而且這是五年前的數據而且我們再看超過六年以上的移工其實也將近四分之一所以其實這個"},{"start":9263.466,"end":9287.6,"text":"移工的需求真的已經是長期的趨勢那我們這30年前修正的我是建議我們來研議看是不是有機會能夠延長解決目前工商團體這很嚴重缺工的問題這真的因為這個議題比方說也會有一些國際上面的組織其實他們反而是希望我們要縮短"},{"start":9288.953,"end":9311.379,"text":"好 那部長我這邊提出來也是幫我們工商團體來提出所以我是說這個事情的確大家會有看法上面方向上不一樣的狀況因為現在缺工真的很嚴重希望這個部長來研議一下缺工的問題是不是可以朝著這方面來比較需要綜合的思考啦但是的確不同的角色不同利害相關方的期待是不同的"},{"start":9312.839,"end":9327.229,"text":"我們請勞動部針對這部分來幫我們衡量評估一下看有沒有機會從這部分來加強改善好 謝謝接下來請黃國昌委員謝謝主席 有請勞動部部長"},{"start":9343.348,"end":9368.57,"text":"黃委員長部長好為了要照顧很多三明治的家庭特別是像我這樣子的年紀在社會上面非常多我們的舊職的中年人為了讓他們比較好的能夠照顧長者我們在上次修舊輔法的時候針對80歲以上免罷生量表這個是在2024年"},{"start":9370.812,"end":9389.714,"text":"總統大選的時候不管是侯友宜市長還是柯文哲主席都提出來的政見對我們而言在選舉的時候提的政見就是要兌現所以我們在2024年年底的時候我們就推動修了就業服務法八十歲以上免八是量表"},{"start":9390.802,"end":9418.468,"text":"那個時候 今年7月25號在大罷免投票前一天你在你的臉書上面延遲的批判了本院所通過的三度通過的救福法勞動部發聲明說深感遺憾重症家庭照顧權益會受到犧牲說會產生十數萬的缺口現在新法上路到現在產生的缺口有多少"},{"start":9420.723,"end":9433.639,"text":"就目前這個部分目前產生的缺口有多少因為修新法而會增加的這個聘僱的量大概是一萬好那產生的缺口有多少"},{"start":9435.18,"end":9461.831,"text":"目前其實當然會有幾個方面就是第一個當然會增加的量第二件事情是確實現在在這個很多重症家庭的看護他們重症家庭來跟我們反映現在看護所以你認為說器重則輕的現象有發生我們也做出因應沒有 器重則輕的現象是不是有發生我們要盡量的讓它不要發生我們也做出了配套是 那所以有發生嗎在我們做出配套以後希望能夠盡量減緩"},{"start":9464.124,"end":9486.529,"text":"我前兩天看到媒體做了非常深入的報導這個報導是我很佩服的報導一個代子願意花這麼長的時間深入針對公共政策 修法以及現在的家庭面對的事情進行深度的報導這在台灣目前的媒體圈非常罕見我高度肯定"},{"start":9487.609,"end":9515.995,"text":"我看了這個報道了以後他上面說了到目前為止有多8000名的長者提出申請遠遠低於預期也沒有看見看護移工器重就輕的現象來東部原本的推估有10萬人可能會聘請會造成現在的看護移工出現缺額的問題等等按照這個媒體他所做的調查報導完全沒有發生"},{"start":9517.215,"end":9530.841,"text":"針對這件事情 部長你會不會覺得當初勞動部有勞動部的政策立場 我同意但是你當初在罷罷免以前的臉書發文的時候是怎麼在抹黑在野黨立委的"},{"start":9532.182,"end":9559.01,"text":"跟委員說明第一件你要撤回你的估計嗎還是你認為你的估計是正確的跟委員說明我分幾個層次講第一件事情是我們確實為了舊法46法的修法以後我們其實是做了六個方案的配套措施就是希望要建立減少期中責欠所以我們當然是希望期中責欠的狀況是能夠減少的這也是為什麼我們要花這麼多心力來設計配套方案的原因"},{"start":9560.194,"end":9577.204,"text":"所以在新法之下藉由配套方案的設計器重責輕不會發生嘛對不對我們認為我們希望它能夠降低對嘛這個就是我講的重點啦可是委員我要說勞動部有勞動部的立場你在大罷免的前夕發文抹黑在野黨的立委危言聳聽"},{"start":9578.843,"end":9606.832,"text":"最後媒體調查出來的結果就不是這個樣子啊但是如果你仔細看我其實當時的發文我是針對一件事情沒有關係啦你的發文社會大眾都可以去看我今天只要求我今天只要求一件事我今天只要求一件事我今天只要求一件事針對舊福法新法上路以後到目前你們採行的配套"},{"start":9608.066,"end":9634.504,"text":"你們所看到的衝擊提一份報告給本委員會可以嗎這沒有問題好 需要多久應該一個禮拜可以吧一個月一個月 好 給你一個月下一個問題2023年民進黨因為連續多起性騷案件被吃案當年引發軒然大波促成性平三法的修法那次的修法新增了"},{"start":9635.625,"end":9659.218,"text":"對最高負責人或僱用人為職場性騷擾行為必須要加以處罰我相信2023年走過那段時間大家都很心痛國會也動起來了修法現在我們所看到的個案是有一家公司老婆掛董事長老公掛董事結果老公去性騷擾5名"},{"start":9661.109,"end":9679.675,"text":"外籍的作業員遭到新北市勞工局裁罰裁罰10萬元 老實講我覺得是太輕了啦但當初法律也只有定1萬到100萬他可能看公司的size但我老實說只裁罰10萬元是太輕了但我現在非常驚訝的是什麼"},{"start":9680.675,"end":9693.104,"text":"我們當初國會修了法要杜絕這樣的行為新北市勞工局也罰了只罰了10萬塊罰了10萬塊以後人家溯源到勞動部被撤銷這怎麼回事"},{"start":9694.363,"end":9708.868,"text":"好 跟委員說明其實因為這個案子其實我們內部也做很多的研議所以我們是希望接下來我們其實也做了一些法規上面的修訂也請專家學者來討論我們現在分兩個部分第一個 針對現行法的規定不好意思 請你針對問題回答我問題還沒有問完是 第一個"},{"start":9713.05,"end":9738.173,"text":"你說你進行研議嘛研議是空的嘛所以我要問具體的嘛第一個 依照現行法的規定依照現行法的規定勞動部現在的這個訴願決定你們覺得是正確還是不正確的依照現行法的規定是正確還不正確的所以你們認為依照現行法的規定把原處分撤銷是正確的"},{"start":9739.48,"end":9762.621,"text":"好 那現在問題來了所以是當初立法出了問題是不是因為你現在 如果按照你說的依照現行法的規定新北市勞工局裁罰10萬塊那個性騷擾外籍勞工的那一個董事也就是董事長的勞工去性騷擾外籍的作業員10萬塊"},{"start":9764.503,"end":9784.962,"text":"新北市勞工局所做的那個處分是違法的而勞動部把那個處分給撤銷掉依照現行法的規定你剛剛說你們覺得是正確的那我現在問題來了環節出在哪裡環節出在上一屆國會修這個性平三法的時候沒有修好嗎"},{"start":9786.135,"end":9786.655,"text":"這個我知道了"},{"start":9806.084,"end":9835.673,"text":"我沒有要你解釋你現行法怎麼解釋的所以下一個是所以我的問題來了嘛依照現行法的規定如果勞動部撤銷原處分是正確的那是不是現行法也就是上一屆國會修這個法的時候出了問題是嗎我跟委員報告上次修的時候有一個與其職務相當之人所以現在勞動部我們的單位是在與其職務相當之人要納入實際負責所以要再推動修法嗎是的"},{"start":9836.033,"end":9855.624,"text":"那上次那個與其職務相當之仁是在立法過程當中被刪除嗎沒有刪除啊就保留這樣子的文字啊所以我們現在那我就聽不懂啦如果要保留這樣子的文字的話那你又說現在勞動部的撤銷處分是正確的我就聽不懂啦"},{"start":9856.896,"end":9886.216,"text":"跟委員補充報告因為現行的規定裡面對於實際負責人沒有說的很清楚所以我們的溯源會溯源委員在做個案的時候會依照現在我們還沒有很明確的說實際負責人要納入母法上面的最高負責人先停一下 實際負責人沒有納入母法裡面的負責人這件事情問題出在法規的層次還是出在行政命令的層次"},{"start":9887.557,"end":9908.136,"text":"我們現在法制作業上面認為在細則或者是解釋令上面是可以處理的對啊 這個就是我的問題啦我現在分兩個區塊如果是立法不當 那立法者負責嘛按照責任政治的ABC啊立法不當 立法者負責嘛"},{"start":9909.161,"end":9921.615,"text":"那如果是立了法以後下面的行政不管是授權的命令職權的命令解釋的函式是行政機關要負責嗎剛剛你們說那是因為現行的規定規範的不明確我為什麼問的問題要問這麼具體"},{"start":9928.042,"end":9955.929,"text":"這樣我們才可以在責任政治下面去追究權責嘛現行的規定規範的不清楚那剛剛按照黃琦雅司長的回覆也就是在行政命令或是相關規則的解釋上面規範的不清楚 對嗎是嗎所以跟委員說明這是我剛才說我們其實已經在啟動要來修訂相關細則把責任負責人納入在相關的作業今天如果出現了"},{"start":9957.596,"end":9983.232,"text":"這個公司的董事實際上面在指揮在控制這些外籍勞工的人發生性騷擾的行為竟然沒有辦法裁罰而他所出現的原因是勞動部當初就對於法律所授權要定義那個負責任的範圍定義不明讓他逃掉了該被處罰這件事情誰要負責"},{"start":9984.173,"end":9998.589,"text":"所以這是為什麼我們現在想要修訂的原因啊對嘛 我還是回到洪部長的邏輯嘛在民主政治的ABC下面國會立錯了法造成了負面效應選民要究責國會嘛"},{"start":10000.495,"end":10023.781,"text":"行政機關該做的解釋沒有好好做解釋產生了漏洞讓該處罰的人沒有受處罰按照民主政治責任政治的ABC則要負責所以這是為什麼我說行政部門有必要有責任來面對現在的這個細則的狀況應該予以修訂對只要修訂就好了嘛也沒有人需要負責啊所以我一開始就講這個啊對啊我的邏輯還是一樣啊"},{"start":10027.813,"end":10046.005,"text":"只要修訂就好啦反正勞動部也沒有人要負責嘛我有說錯嗎我們當然要把該修訂的符合法規上面的應該把它修訂清楚我覺得這事情這是我們這幾個月都在進行的工作OK 好好 謝謝接下來請王振旭委員來做詢問"},{"start":10060.889,"end":10087.179,"text":"謝謝主席有請洪部長部長好今天是勞動部的業務報告看到您準備這麼完整的相關的業務報告包括早上的口頭報告真的非常謝謝回想在113年11月25日您匆匆忙忙的上陣"},{"start":10088.9,"end":10113.172,"text":"那個時候在很短的時間裡面被賦予這個重責大任當然壓力很大大家其實也都有一些安心不過將近一年來看你很匆匆容容游刃有餘的來應對相關的議題真的非常佩服那也很感謝在這段時間包括部長還有所有同仁針對相關的勞動議題做非常深入的研究那也"},{"start":10114.693,"end":10131.441,"text":"體勞動朋友解決很多問題當然還是有很多問題必須要大家共同來努力包括今天的主題之一就是引進這個跨國的勞動力如何能夠有更多更完整的這個政策配套這個就是今天希望跟部長一起來討論的地方"},{"start":10133.536,"end":10157.626,"text":"那完善這個移工的政策配套我相信大家從您的口頭報告裡面也知道行政院在10月30號有公告相關跨國勞動力的精進方案這裡面有四大方案其實主要還是聚焦在三個部分一個就是製造業的部分如果能夠幫這個本國的勞工加薪的情形下呢是可以"},{"start":10158.426,"end":10184.508,"text":"來增加這個移工的名額那第二個主要方案就是希望能夠放寬外國技術人力流用的上限包括如果說這些技術人才在台灣已經過一段時間的話可以能夠把它全數的轉任到技術人力來不過也希望整體的總員工的百分比不要超過50%那第三個部分就是有關於旅宿業跟這個商港碼頭業"},{"start":10186.309,"end":10205.215,"text":"希望能夠引進相關的外國技術人才能夠讓整個工作在運作可以持續的來精進當然這個百分比也不要超過10%這個是已經公告的那也持續在執行了一個相關的政策方案"},{"start":10205.875,"end":10233.767,"text":"另外賴總統其實也希望能夠持續推動12歲以下一個孩子的家庭能夠可以申請到外籍的幫傭來協助整個家庭的照顧如果是雙薪家庭的話就沒有後顧之憂當然這個部分行政院還在持續的研議當中希望年底之前能夠有相關的政策跟配套可以讓國人進一步的了解"},{"start":10234.207,"end":10256.842,"text":"那這部分可不可以先請部長稍微說明一下有關的進度跟一般的狀況其實針對外籍幫中的政策那包括是不是要調整現有開放的幅度那這部分的政策我們目前在依照行政院的指示在幾個原則下面那這還在做相關的評估"},{"start":10257.782,"end":10279.003,"text":"是的確因為我們知道同樣是12歲以下如果是一般的兒童正常的成長的壓力跟如果照顧是一個罕病的兒童可能帶來的壓力其實是不太一樣所以這部分可能在研議的過程裡面需要有更多的討論那也希望這個配套可以讓它更完整"},{"start":10279.463,"end":10294.243,"text":"未來在做這些政策改善的同時讓社會在有這個好的政策的執行之下有更好的一些服務的讓民眾更好的感受"},{"start":10295.685,"end":10319.606,"text":"再過來其實我們是要看一連串的數據這個是我們目前針對移工看來的一些影響我們從民國100年到113年引進移工的在台人數從42萬增加到82萬增加了將近一倍4年的移工隨著移工的人數增加以後"},{"start":10320.347,"end":10335.323,"text":"也從3萬3增加到9萬 這個增加了兩倍多就是從3萬變成到9萬所以這個失聯移工的比例從7.9%增加到11%增加到將近3.多個Percent"},{"start":10338.306,"end":10359.614,"text":"那受雇的人數如果相較於這個外勞跟本勞的這個比例的話也從5.1%增加到8.7%那這些人數的成長其實是都非常的可觀那如果我們現在的這個移工政策持續這樣執行的話我們也可以理解未來引進移工人數會持續的增加"},{"start":10360.635,"end":10377.854,"text":"持续增加的同时如果依照这个比例的成长我们的失联移工人数也相对会持续的增加那这个相关的这些失联的移工不管他是在医疗的部分或者是社会安全的影响"},{"start":10378.935,"end":10407.16,"text":"所帶來衝擊應該也會逐漸的讓我們的民眾會替社會擔心這個是我們所看到的這個相關的問題所以如果能夠有相關的這個政策配套這是要麻煩部長這邊要多費心的部分那因為再過來民團會擔心就是說在引進這個跨國勞動力的同時有三個部分必須要持續的來加強注意"},{"start":10407.66,"end":10431.11,"text":"第一個就是那到底在持續的擴張這個移工人數的時候到底有沒有一個整體的規劃甚至有沒有可能會定一個總額我們也了解它常常這個總額的數字大家會有相關的一些討論比如說我們在第5有關於這個就業福華第52條裡面就要求"},{"start":10432.33,"end":10452.843,"text":"引進的這個總人數呢必須要設定一個警戒的指標才能夠讓民眾可以安心來了解那這個部分需要有中央主管機關來邀請勞工 僱主還有學者代表來協商這是有關於這個整體規劃跟人數總額的部分"},{"start":10453.325,"end":10478.168,"text":"那第二個其實民團也會很擔心目前台中的巨大工業公司被美國政府因為有可能會強迫勞動的風險之下來發布了這個戰扣令那這個對台灣的形象其實是影響蠻大的這個部分如果我們除去引進勞工的過程裡面有需要更注意的部分"},{"start":10479.049,"end":10503.531,"text":"第三個地方就是如何避免造成本國勞工的低薪因為之前我們引進勞工是原則上是補充性的原則而不是替代性原則萬一我們引進來有更多的替代性的話會不會造成本地勞工低薪的狀況無法改善這三部分不知道目前部長有哪一些可以提供給大家參考的好"},{"start":10504.131,"end":10528.211,"text":"跟王委員說明因為王委員還有很多勞工團體很關注這部分針對這個我們在警戒指標部分其實在我們今年11月7號的時候這個政策小組討論裡面其實有檢視了我們在113年的這個警戒指標跟112年的數據那這一次我們其實看到在19項這個產業跟社福是有這樣的指標裡面其實16項是有正向的"},{"start":10530.373,"end":10552.934,"text":"三項是持平的狀況所以針對這個警戒指標的部分我們其實還是很密切的在關注這些事情來作為我們在政策判斷上面的依據這是第一點那第二點其實這一次我們的確也考慮了現在大家都越來越關注的強迫勞動的這個議題所以剛剛其實王阿元講一個在一開始都講一個說我們目前聚焦在前三項方案其實不是"},{"start":10553.755,"end":10578.469,"text":"我們是四項方案都聚焦而且最後一項方案也就是提高政府的角色跟功能其實做起來的挑戰不比前三項來的低而且會花的心力可能是更大的那我們也是藉由提高政府的角色跟功能的這樣子的能量希望能夠盡量來比方說來提高職聘的量能也就是可以來因應現在強迫勞動"},{"start":10580.97,"end":10601.442,"text":"這個勞動人權風險的這個狀況其實這也是我們在為什麼這麼強調那個方案一個很重要的原因在這個地方他其實也是應對強迫勞動很重要的一個具體的做法這樣子那第三點是針對如何不要避免本國勞動基金我們正是因為不希望造成本國勞動基金所以我們在這次的方案設計裡面有幾個"},{"start":10603.683,"end":10631.799,"text":"重點第一個是我們希望這個名額的增加都可以要以本國勞工加薪的前提本國勞工要加薪作為前提這是第一點第二點其實我們在這次的方案裡面也非常著重是在外國技術人力上面外國技術人力跟藍領移工不同的地方是外國技術人力是需要設置薪資的門檻的也包括需要設置這個包括可能技能或語言的要求的"},{"start":10632.299,"end":10652.179,"text":"那透過外國技術人力他設置薪資門檻跟語言要求這幾件事情就是希望盡量來減少對於本國勞工的權益包括尤其是造成更不希望造成低薪的這個狀況來發生所以這幾個點也是在我們這次方案設計裡面非常非常關注的點所以我們才做這樣子方案的規劃"},{"start":10653.3,"end":10677.128,"text":"是好謝謝部長這麼完整的說話一方面可以讓國家更進步的同時也讓我們的勞工朋友知道政府努力的方向所以針對今天這樣的主題有相關的這個配套包括失聯的移工的這些醫療代帳的部分要怎麼做進一步的處理這部分也要麻煩部長"},{"start":10680.029,"end":10706.276,"text":"這邊跟衛福部持續的來關照第二個部分就是如何避免高齡跟幼童照顧上發生器重則輕的困擾這部分也是一個希望部長來關照的重點那另外就是是否會跟促進中高齡跟女性就業政策造成一些衝突這個其實我們也知道目前我們努力的方向如果有衝突的話那有什麼好的配套"},{"start":10706.936,"end":10727.69,"text":"最後一項就是能不能考慮相關政策在調整的時候這些就業安定費是不是也能夠透過不同的需求之下做適當的調配這個部分可不可以兩個月如果有相關的這些書面報告的話可以讓委員會還有辦公室來做參考"},{"start":10728.01,"end":10745.808,"text":"可以確實汪元說的其實移工的政策環環相扣介紹的層面其實很多然後都必須綜合性的考慮所以這些點我們其實我想我們都會納入再更深入的考量那我們會來我們一份報告讓汪元這邊來參考"},{"start":10747.409,"end":10773.022,"text":"好那最後再利用一點點的時間跟部長來討論一下有關受庇護人的保障措施其實部長在擔任委員的時候也非常關心這個議題目前還是有數十位的這些因為法規的限制依法申請拘留而預期兩年沒有做完做好決定這個難民相關的權益是希望能夠透過我們勞動部這邊有一個適當的含釋讓這些"},{"start":10776.064,"end":10801.204,"text":"因為他們本國出現了哪些情形之下讓他們不得已到台灣來他如果不是符合我們常規的這個移工的勞動情形之下所受到的處分當初去年上一期在這個屆期審查移民法的時候也就立法院就邀請有請那個移民署來彙整各個"},{"start":10802.365,"end":10814.724,"text":"相關的意見來免於處罰的附帶決議那這部分的話也希望能夠透過勞動部有更完整的含釋來把這個事情做好那不知道這部分可不可以請部長這邊也能夠說明"},{"start":10816.601,"end":10844.099,"text":"好其實這個關於外國人進來然後這個臨時外僑登記證的狀況尤其他可能是有一些可能會需要庇護的原因臨時外僑登記證是我從當立委的時候就非常關注的議題那但是的確因為他的這個組的機關其實會是在內政部那但是勞動部我們在做處分的時候我們不一定都能夠知道這個工作的人那他目前有沒有具備臨時外僑登記證上面的在這上面的名單"},{"start":10844.939,"end":10861.53,"text":"所以如果今天在內政部這邊能夠提給我們相對應的這個名單上面的對象的話我們其實就可以依照內政部給我們的名單來去做相對應處分上面的調整或者是去做特別的看待"},{"start":10862.751,"end":10888.197,"text":"那如果需要含釋的話就麻煩勞動部這邊也把這個需求能夠具體來完成包括這個違反服務法第43條裡面是不是有違反行政法法第43條的適用性還有是否能夠會避免抵觸兩公約這個需求我想我們都不希望去抵觸兩公約因為這當初在做這個當時在移民法修法的時候跟相關的配套裡面就是大家就非常看重這件事情尤其很多人權團體都很關注"},{"start":10888.837,"end":10917.478,"text":"所以我想我們會來跟內政部這邊來聯絡他們一下如果他們有把這相關的名單就趕快提供給我們那我們依照這個名單來做處分上面的依據好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝蘇昭偉請你稍坐好不好現在這個時間是臨時提案的處理因為那個提案委員到了不然提案委員如果要讓你先講我沒有意見"},{"start":10919.431,"end":10926.165,"text":"你要聯想起義嘛好不好好現在處理臨時提案既有一案請宣讀"},{"start":10927.527,"end":10952.225,"text":"為保障勞工在AI浪潮下知工作權益與人性尊嚴並協助其順利轉型原要求勞動部應緊速研擬並公布企業使用人工智慧AI指導原則除應處理就業歧視職場監控與隱私權保護等基本議題外更應納入勞工的轉型教育權其次應保障勞工的程序參與權"},{"start":10953.746,"end":10977.024,"text":"最重要者因維護勞動者的人性尊嚴在指引中揭示非由AI主導人之基本原則並針對AI與職場的監視追蹤等議題建立制度性規範提案人委員陳金輝 廖偉祥 邱振軍宣讀完畢好 請問本案行政當中有意見有 請說明"},{"start":11007.325,"end":11030.823,"text":"報告委員因為這一個部分是對於企業使用AI的一個指導原則也就是我們希望引導企業去處理一些關於AI的事情那在文字建議上面因為有提到這個納入勞工的轉型教育權這個對企業相對的負擔是比較大的那所以我們這一個部分是建議是不是能夠做文字的刪除那以及"},{"start":11031.323,"end":11054.803,"text":"可以去請他去做這個在職勞工提供這個AI的這些認知的部分在教育的部分就會建議刪除以及企業他應該也要做的是一個建立預防工作被取代的一個支持系統在轉職的部分應該是由我們政府單位來協助失業勞工所以我們的文字修正會是建議"},{"start":11055.924,"end":11072.832,"text":"刪除這個納入勞工的轉型教育權以及刪除集師業以及刪除這個資在教育那轉職的 以及這個轉職的文字也刪除那我們"},{"start":11074.978,"end":11100.697,"text":"你要不要 你對第幾段修什麼認識不會 我有聽懂你聽懂 好我來說明第一個我先跟大家講一下我們針對AI的自己而指引目前的進行的階段因為AI發展的速度很快所以近期所以我們其實目前也跟數位部我們跟數位部成立了一個聯合的協作的工作小組那就是希望能夠在透過"},{"start":11101.809,"end":11126.338,"text":"我们比较了解劳动法规上面的需求包括就业歧视等等规定可是我们也需要在一些技术上面得到更多的资源或者投技术的观点来检视所以我们也跟数位部现在成立了一个协作的小组就是希望来去处理像这几个指引后续怎么让他可以真的在技术的使用端里面能够跟接地气的部分我们现在进入这个阶段"},{"start":11126.978,"end":11148.794,"text":"那我们刚才同仁表达的事情是说因为这一份的这个指导原则或指引他其实是让企业在使用的所以我们可能就是说包括像转型的教育权我认为这可能是政府跟企业一起来做了然后也包括是建立预防工作被取代的这也是希望是政府跟企业一起来合作的部分可能"},{"start":11149.634,"end":11171.113,"text":"怎麼樣子在我們在描述上面不會讓企業覺得好像這件事純然好像政府都把東西全部都丟給企業意思是這樣子啦對理解謝謝同意同意好對因為這個希望勞動部可以趕快有效率的產出這個才是我們希望的謝謝好謝謝提案委員接受這樣的一個建議修正那請再宣讀"},{"start":11174.936,"end":11188.259,"text":"我們現在擬定一下具體文字好不好對不用就三條就好了對好你剛不是說你聽懂有聽懂好先讀先讀第三段"},{"start":11203.137,"end":11231.021,"text":"第三段在第三行後面更因前瞻性抵後面的文字納入勞工的轉型教育權這幾個字刪除然後第五行前面知在教育的文字刪除後面那一句莫具支持系統的前面轉值兩個字刪除"},{"start":11233.547,"end":11253.131,"text":"然後其他就跟原來的一樣還有一個部分是那個第四行有個及失業把失業拿掉在第四行的轉型教育權這幾個字刪除下一句對在職後面那幾個字及失業三個字刪除宣讀完畢好 田委員這樣OK吧"},{"start":11258.578,"end":11269.264,"text":"可以收到 謝謝 同意那我們就修正通過 臨時提案全部處理完畢 接下來請蘇經元蘇昭偉來做選擇謝謝主席我們請部長勞動力發展署黃署長"},{"start":11290.603,"end":11314.603,"text":"所以很好我今天問你三個問題 我簡單啦 我在形容外科 沒辦法 拖不下去啦第一個問題 你今年11月25 中心嘛 對不對你知不知道 你當時中心都不知道有點忘了日期了我都要給你monitor 要一年啊你對你一年來的表現 你自己判幾分"},{"start":11319.279,"end":11338.073,"text":"自己打分數很不會被我覺得不用自己打分數吧我用比較客觀看啦 我覺得你很幼老啦很細膩但是細膩而已啦 私立而已開窗不太夠"},{"start":11346.292,"end":11361.983,"text":"伴隨第二個問題 我要問如果像國昌有說八十歲以上不用用八十兩票這也是柯文哲提出來 也是侯友宜提出來我這裡要跟你說就是侯友宜這個案子是我提的"},{"start":11363.621,"end":11371.111,"text":"所以我把它拿出來 是要做它的競選的政見所以我對這個 我很關心我們要過這個法的時候"},{"start":11378.976,"end":11406.645,"text":"大家都說會加幾萬尤其是我們一些女性的立法委員都一直說會增加十萬 二十萬會增加多少 會排擠但是我看因為像這個外籍看護沒有在縮沒有在縮不然大家都很害怕台灣善者是比較多不對 這點你有同意嗎"},{"start":11409.031,"end":11425.06,"text":"當然政府的政策上面希望盡量的去拉近不同家庭的處境所以你這樣考慮太多結果呢 實施了到現在看起來也沒有像我們想的那麼嚴重我們花了很大的力氣去設計配套"},{"start":11427.403,"end":11438.573,"text":"不可以說大家 像八十幾歲的人身體用日照的條 要請一個人做看護 還要花這麼多錢我感覺那是不可能的事情 賺錢不太好賺 勞工改革賺錢不太好賺所以我早就預測說 不想你想那麼嚴重"},{"start":11451.995,"end":11459.979,"text":"第二就是我比較高興的因為現在24個24萬個外籍看護裡面以前是21萬變22萬變23萬現在這裡面你說發揮去捨棄重的然後他會去要自己照顧比較輕盈的這是我們高興的嘛會排除一些重症的沒有人要照顧結果我看也不是這樣"},{"start":11477.679,"end":11499.975,"text":"我想外籍康復來講 他要捱的可能是待遇啦還有工作的磁場 還有氛圍啦你如果說僱主的人對他比較好 或是說再給他一點養活這樣 他如果是沒有那樣照顧重症的跟照顧輕症的 我看差不多啦照顧重症的反而是壓力變那麼大反正聰明就聰明"},{"start":11504.406,"end":11530.798,"text":"照顧親政的反省還會出問題呢這個這樣的敘述行政部門不能講啊你不能講啊而且我們不能這樣想啊好我們不能這樣想啊就是說重症會沒人顧他會選僱主然後跑掉也沒有像我們想的那麼的嚴重對不對黃署長署長有沒有你看到有這個情形嗎"},{"start":11532.27,"end":11560.793,"text":"就是說大家都跑去照顧年輕的然後就自己選僱主然後跑來跑去那個我來回答第一個是其實我們還是有聽到會有一些重症的家庭跟我們反映其實家裡的看護外籍看護工其實的確在好像有點想要在外面去找工作然後找比較輕的工作這個狀況現象不是沒有有這樣的聲音我們陸續都有聽到"},{"start":11562.034,"end":11584.477,"text":"但第二個事情是的確我們從行政部門角度我們本來就要為比較嚴峻的狀況去做設想我們不能都假設我都不去設想大家又會說很輕忽我們要為比較嚴峻的狀況去做設想並擬定相關的配套所以當初在上路的時候我們也提出六大配套也希望能夠透過配套來減少可能原本大家擔心的衝擊"},{"start":11585.738,"end":11612.467,"text":"這也是我們在設計配套的原因所以你們的設計配套盡了很多力你們有什麼量化的Data讓我們能夠感覺你們有努力或是你們有 我想這種Data吃牌吃牌其實包括我們在這次我們也擴大了直接擴大免評這擴大免評也讓申請的件數從申請的案件數從五成變七成其實現在有高達七成其實都適用多元免評的資格"},{"start":11613.587,"end":11634.532,"text":"所以其實很多的配套 配套的範圍也擴大那這都是我們希望符合大家民眾的需求之下盡量來減少衝擊的做法我倒是覺得啦 很多的北省省我去屏東高秋那一四個這些家屬在懷念的是什麼呢"},{"start":11635.919,"end":11650.804,"text":"他說我這個老人都重症有的重大三病等等我們就已經 經濟面就不是很好聽這個話就好來做康復是無不理想的後來就出事了你又把我收到救援安定會這件事有減免嗎"},{"start":11652.458,"end":11672.869,"text":"是減免還是免除如果它的經濟弱勢比方是相對是經濟上比較弱勢的其實是不用 是免救安費的是免交 還有三千塊對不對兩千是免救安費的免交還是減免它如果是經濟弱勢的話是減免減免 那有的是免費對不過這個要弱勢啦如果我們大家相當的反應是這一點"},{"start":11674.85,"end":11700.99,"text":"所以你就知道你嫁到那裡是對人來說有多重要好啦 這個就衍生第三個問題我們賴總統就是要叫婦女來參與勞動力這也是很好的事情啊讓這些女性投入出場我們現在的勞工是一千兩八萬人嘛 對不對那如果這些女性這裡有的全都特勤館 年齡也好你到處顧小孩 能帶上去外籍幫養"},{"start":11703.696,"end":11720.008,"text":"來出國 現在才兩千五百這要怎麼做呢對我們女性就業的參與率增加社會勞動率也增加 品質也提高我們就從補助 從店裡總統有一個很好的想法你現在還在考慮 你是在考慮什麼"},{"start":11723.37,"end":11739.958,"text":"各位說明這幾個月我想我們都在評估中然後也把各種可能的情境行政院也指示了幾個原則包括必須考慮本國的勞工的狀況也必須去考慮多元家庭的需求也包括一些"},{"start":11740.738,"end":11754.142,"text":"也許在照顧上面或者是在這個工作上面的品質然後最後也包括就是最重要的事情是說這個政策如果要實行的話那是要能夠真的減少這個照顧者的負擔台灣勞工不窮這是會越來越嚴重沒有可能會越來越好"},{"start":11760.024,"end":11772.189,"text":"不管是製造業 不管是營建業 不管是什麼都欠了連在大太魯的大便都扣多了在做所以這個問題是越來越嚴重所以要讓這個婦女再來參與 這是好事不然說什麼五千塊要調去八千塊的 安靜的 安定的署長你是在調什麼意思 你是"},{"start":11783.033,"end":11805.653,"text":"用克魯莎還是根據哪一個條例我跟委員說明一個政策一個政策的推出都會有它可能會有的正面或負面的影響那我們也透過各種政策工具去思考怎麼樣減少可能會負面的影響所以各種政策工具也必須去評估"},{"start":11806.414,"end":11834.283,"text":"所以您是 您就當沒想過要把它動起來不要做 還是因為我看我們現在就是在評估中你這個配套就是要把它動起來啊跟委員說明我們其實現在就是在評估中對這個安定會五千到八千你這個女性出來上班不就要賺五六萬六七萬她到底要不要請因為你請一個外資班"},{"start":11836.823,"end":11858.78,"text":"幫你用的 再加一支救援電話 再八千塊再加一支骨肉骨素 再加下去 再讓他吃 再大 再大要不然四萬塊超過啊確實在這個議題上面各界有不太一樣的看法會有不同的出發點的看法那我們作為一個政策的規劃者跟評估者我們其實需要把各界的各種的看法跟需求都考慮進來"},{"start":11860.518,"end":11880.51,"text":"所以可能會有不同的出發點但是這是從 因為從不同的角度看待的原因你這個喔 你這個人要 要說調到這樣你要穿喔 這些女性要投入職場的差不多都要白領階級以上的啦差不多要一個個都穿六萬以上 八萬以上到我才穿"},{"start":11881.451,"end":11909.57,"text":"你如果說 像藍綠的你說要叫他請 那不可能的事情他請不上去 老是自己顧孩子就好啊所以這個美意就沒了各個因素我們都要綜合考慮啦示範啦 各個因素我們都必須綜合考慮因為 有很的確我們聽到有很需要的聲音但也會有一些比較一直在提醒我們跟擔心的聲音這個正反意見都存在"},{"start":11914.585,"end":11942.581,"text":"好 謝謝 接下來請代會委員委員來做選擇代會委員委員來做選擇謝謝主席 我們有請勞動部部長來 請洪部長還有我們那個責安署署長來 洪署長責安署 勞動部署"},{"start":11943.462,"end":11970.699,"text":"部長 署長 午安我想在這裡先跟你們線上感謝在這一次七月丹納斯颱風重創重創我們整個雲嘉南尤其是台南的這個西北地區那西北它本身就是一個農業區那存在的保留了很多的一個石棉瓦這個石棉瓦其實存在了很多的農舍甚至就是一般的住家"},{"start":11971.806,"end":11993.842,"text":"那其实在那段时间常常就是说在空气里头还飘散的那种纤维的一个粉尘为什么因为大家在拆房子的时候大家是用一个最直接的方式也没有戴口罩也没有戴手套那就是这样子就是把这个那个屋顶上的石棉整个拉下来"},{"start":11994.542,"end":12015.385,"text":"那謝謝你們就是說展署那提出來的這一個災後重建防護指揮所那甚至就是說在我們四個區裡頭做了災後防護的一個服務站那也送出去了一萬多組一萬多組的這個防護包那可是在我們台南"},{"start":12016.306,"end":12036.965,"text":"還有大概接近接近7大概6000噸6000噸的石棉瓦還沒有清印所以在這裡要特別跟部長就是做一個請命你們現在都已經測了是不是可以留下一個固定的窗口因為事實上這個讓災民跟業者知道拆石棉是要找誰"},{"start":12038.146,"end":12054.265,"text":"要問誰要怎麼拆才合法才安全這個對於我們的災區來講這個是非常非常重要的是不是請部長回應一下跟委員說明因為的確在尤其之前在台南的災區然後遇到一個這樣子"},{"start":12055.986,"end":12078.886,"text":"過去沒有發生過的颱風的路徑所造成的影響很大然後大家也都很辛苦所以我們當初設定了這樣子的一個工作站的方式那目前我們其實是跟台南市政府討論接下來的這個窗口由台南市政府來擔任但我們還是會全力支持包括相關的物資還是會由我們來提供"},{"start":12080.409,"end":12102.197,"text":"部長我想在這裡我還是特別要再跟你做建議我認為由中央來做這一個固定的窗口因為物資當然是由我們勞動部來提供那如果這個固定的窗口是由我們來指揮的話我相信成效會更好其實你已經編了那麼多的錢環境部已經編了那麼多的錢這個超過20億 20億還是不夠"},{"start":12104.978,"end":12127.672,"text":"前面的7億 第一次的7億 再來的20億後續我想還是要再追加的因為數量實在是太龐大了所以我想部長你考慮看看我希望這個固定的窗口是由你們你們把它就是可以那個總體的那個指揮這個對我們地方來講是一個比較好的"},{"start":12128.352,"end":12147.357,"text":"那這樣好不好我是覺得我們可以用我們的南區中心來跟台南市政府一起建立一個平台那當然物資的提供協助我們都還是會做我們的南區中心跟地方政府我覺得南區中心就是跟台南市政府一起來合作一起合作大家一起協助我們還是願意做這個事情的謝謝部長"},{"start":12149.338,"end":12168.603,"text":"那再就是也再一次感謝勞動部就是在丹納斯颱風災後你啟動了三大支持的一個方案第一個就是天然災害的那個臨時的工作津貼這個其實在這個整個災情的過程當中我們啟動了這個天然的工作津貼那也"},{"start":12169.875,"end":12189.077,"text":"帮了很多很多的忙就是说因为很多就是我们临时要找到工人就是有这一笔钱其实让我们很好的去调度再来就是说职业训练的一个补助那第三个就是说创业贷款的本息的那个环角这一个其实部长"},{"start":12190.12,"end":12213.209,"text":"我要跟你做一個探討就是說在農漁業的部分我們是爭取到了我們是爭取到了就是那個多了20萬然後是一年加三個月那他的利息他的利息是0.915非常非常的便宜可是你的青農的創業你們竟然就是給他只有半年"},{"start":12214.329,"end":12237.387,"text":"我覺得相形之下這個對於就是這些青年創業的一個貸款那在面臨到大家一樣都碰到了這一個丹納斯颱風那農民跟漁民農業部可以做這樣的一個補貼那為什麼我們勞動部對於青創的一個補貼竟然只是半年而已這個是不是請說明一下"},{"start":12241.4,"end":12258.981,"text":"是不是可以比照就是我們的龍一鳴這個創業貸款的貸款的還款應該委員指的是說這個勞動部創業貸款的還款的期限目前我們最長是六個月希望可以再延長"},{"start":12260.182,"end":12285.991,"text":"沒有錯我想我們來研究一下好不好因為整體來講就是說這整個受創的面積就是大部分就是都是在整個就是在鄉村區那鄉村區的這一些青龍還有這一些就是說回到地方開設的一些小商店其實他是很值得就是說我們勞動部來協助他你看我們的農藝民都幫了這麼多了"},{"start":12287.517,"end":12314.344,"text":"我們再研究一下這個事情好 那也希望就是那個部長研究好不好來 再接著跟最後跟部長探討一個農業移工他需要快速的一個荷花因為農業有季節性部長你知道這一段時間什麼東西什麼水果最好吃就是洋香瓜最好吃還有我們的蓮角也很好吃可是當我要一比一就是說我一個本老 一個外老"},{"start":12316.12,"end":12330.562,"text":"這樣子的一個申請方案的時候通常就是把整個程序跑完了以後那進來的移工事實上緩不及急還有我很想邀請你有空到我們整個南部"},{"start":12331.303,"end":12352.944,"text":"其實都可以讓你點名在我們的畜牧業裡頭很多是自己的孩子自己的孩子在養豬自己的孩子在養雞為什麼因為請不到本地的勞工這個是在畜牧業存在的非常非常大的一個困難我不知道部長怎麼看這個農業移工這一個速度"},{"start":12353.632,"end":12374.239,"text":"跟文說明的確我們知道在農村地區的缺工的問題很嚴重那所以目前其實也跟農糧署這邊或者是跟農業部這邊我們其實在合作這個農業移工的合給的情況其實我們願意來跟農業部來討論怎麼樣加速因為這裡面的程序"},{"start":12374.813,"end":12395.65,"text":"有些是劳动部的有些是在农业部的所以说是跨部会的一个合作因为你从一万二到两万事实上我们看到了这一个数字可是问题就是说这个数字是不是可以真正的落实到这个农村里头来因为你还卡了一个一个本劳一个外劳本劳就差不过了"},{"start":12397.878,"end":12412.684,"text":"所以這個畜牧業這個畜牧產業有很多是家族式的為什麼他沒有辦法因為他請不到工人啊所以連他的女兒都是一起跳下來要養豬要養雞這個是存在的我們南部很大的一個畜牧困境"},{"start":12413.024,"end":12430.012,"text":"是那個委員其實我覺得針對這個核發的或者申請跟核發的程序面的話我們跟農業部在討論啦因為其實我們在前一輪裡面我們已經盡量把勞動部這一端的程序盡量收到最短把它收到一個禮拜對不對我記得是"},{"start":12430.532,"end":12451.267,"text":"可是我們招募的部分他跟農業部申請了以後要90天才有辦法到勞動部這裡來那雖然你這一端已經縮短了可是農業部那一端還是拉到90天所以我覺得這個是需要一個跨部會大家共同再來討論那個你剛才講90天部分還是他的效期啊"},{"start":12451.567,"end":12473.998,"text":"他的校期 這是指的是他的校期那好那如果一個農業移工從申請到進來你們最短的時間可以拉到多久如果在國內承接的話速度就很快對但是因為如果涉及到海外的話還有在海外招工跟挑工的階段這部分就比較難"},{"start":12475.216,"end":12494.086,"text":"一概而論的說有一個固定的數字可是部長其實基本上海外的一個招募本來就是移工的一個大眾對不對所以這個存在的困難就是在這個地方那我們還是希望就是跨部會的一個討論那也特別跟部長做一個"},{"start":12495.106,"end":12509.771,"text":"提醒真的畜牧的一個移工非常非常的缺如果我們的畜牧產業要升級的話不是只有就是說智慧的一個設計而已這個人啊人的那個問題是要強化來解決"},{"start":12511.212,"end":12537.287,"text":"跟我們說明其實我們有看到這個狀況那當然因為這個名額的申請其實會是目的事業主管機關來申請所以如果農業部有這個需求那也明確大家確認是有這個需求那在額度上名額上面要再做調整的話我想我們都是可以很開放的來討論的那在程序面我們也願意跟農業部一起來看怎麼樣縮短讓我們的農民朋友讓我們的農會讓我們地方上面最重要的產業能夠更方便這樣子"},{"start":12538.648,"end":12562.245,"text":"謝謝部長部長我對你有期待因為你剛你跟我做過同事我知道你的能力是非常好的所以期待就是台灣的農業我們可以看到救世主好謝謝非常謝謝賴會員發言也謝謝部長跟同仁的答詢下一位我們要請劉建國召委發言"},{"start":12570.853,"end":12589.658,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長好 有請洪部長那感謝洪部長今天精闢的這個報告跟說明整本業務的報告有28頁我真的很用心的拜讀部長有詳細的說明勞動部在你帶領之下的方向與願景"},{"start":12591.69,"end":12613.103,"text":"但我很遺憾這個成本的業務報告裡面找不到英文三個字部長知道是哪三個嗎找不到英文對找不到三個的英文字母沒有知道嗎猜到有講猜不到要把胡錫刮掉"},{"start":12619.06,"end":12624.01,"text":"應該是關注EAP的問題對啊好那你不用掛了"},{"start":12625.222,"end":12654.902,"text":"就算是中文的員工協助方案很抱歉這六個字也沒有在這本報告裡面出現過當然在15頁的時候你有針對這個加強營造友善職場環境落實這個職場的工作平權勞動部有很多的說明那諸如有提供這個安心生養的職場環境支持企業提供友善職場也加強這個宣導職場平權消米懷孕歧視等等等"},{"start":12655.823,"end":12680.563,"text":"這些確實都有說明但唯獨沒有提到勞動部到底要如何協助企業建立推動EAP因為去年在責安署霸凌事件中勞動部 衛護部等相關單位都認同AAP的重要性但沒有一個單位去落實能做好的就連勞動部 自己也離譜了去年12月也在這個質詢台本期特別質詢"},{"start":12682.563,"end":12697.766,"text":"也提醒部長就是說 勞動部的EAP平均一人500元左右而勞動部底下的2899 2899名的這個承攬人員不是用勞動部的員工協助方案"},{"start":12698.466,"end":12725.757,"text":"那當時總統部長有引諾會來改善是 對 阿一年啊 到底現今的改善狀況怎麼樣 部長可以說明一下嗎好 跟委員說明 剛才委員在講的是兩個部分第一個部分是針對企業的部分 其實我們在114年2025年的時候 其實我們辦了10場的教育的訓練那總共有超過2000人次的企業代表來參訓那就是希望能夠把主管在這方面的敏感度跟關懷的"},{"start":12727.478,"end":12740.088,"text":"的部分能夠做到更到位那我們也有大概超過50家的入場的輔導這都是在針對企業的部分來進行針對部裡面的部分的話因為委員其實也很關注所以我們那時候其實也承諾我們會把這個"},{"start":12743.23,"end":12763.204,"text":"EAP的範圍不只是放在我們的正式人力上面也包括我們的約聘的人員這些人員一併的納入到這裡面所以我們現在應該都已經放入到這裡面都變成是我們EAP的相關的對象但是部長114年度勞動部的EAP預算是45萬"},{"start":12766.134,"end":12791.066,"text":"115年度的勞動部EAP預算也是45萬那是部門部的對對嘛對 部門部就不增加了那因為那匡論底下的所屬單位會增加那我們就拭目以待在審查預算的時候就好好來救教部長因為比較多的越過人其實坦白說是在我們的所屬啦是對 所以所屬都有增加有嗎"},{"start":12795.038,"end":12823.635,"text":"我想預算審查室我一定會好好請教部長報告委員我們今年的EAP的那個契約的那個預算是本來是235萬多那因為那個諮商的時數有擴增所以我們後來擴增到280萬280萬3000多萬3926元你講今年的嘛對不對今年的 對嘛那明年我們也有再擴增"},{"start":12824.694,"end":12845.031,"text":"擴增多少 大約明年我們擴增到350萬左右增加20% 是差不多嘛 是 對就那個單位而已還是總TOTAL 這是本土及所屬部跟所屬 是總TOTAL增加20% 是好 到時候我們再好好討論好不好好 謝謝那請部長看這個新聞"},{"start":12848.923,"end":12877.191,"text":"這家公司承攬多項政府部門的員工協助方案委外契約嘛依照採購契約要有合格的心理諮商等專業服務但政府員工在尋求諮商服務時察覺有異陳警檢舉發現創意老闆根本沒有心理師的證書卻親自提供諮商服務這台北體驗署已經在涉日違反心理師法將這個老闆提起公訴了這部長知道嗎"},{"start":12881.889,"end":12903.465,"text":"你們有委外他來做員工寫書方案嗎有做心理諮商的部分嗎有嗎勞動部有嗎你們不是這一家不是不是是哪一家報告委員我們不是這一家你們不是這一家好你們不是這一家你們有這一家的狀況嗎"},{"start":12904.4,"end":12914.288,"text":"我們瞭解這一家的狀況可是我們沒有沒有這一家你們不是委任這一家嗎那你們委任別家比較像這一家的狀況嗎沒有沒有你確定是"},{"start":12915.478,"end":12933.312,"text":"要不要再想一下是 我們目前的這一家是有合格的心理諮商的專業服務好都直接在線上就直接有這個服務好你看 這個是新聞已經出來了根據採購企業內容該公司需指派具有心理師資格的人來負責接聽電話"},{"start":12934.713,"end":12957.28,"text":"接聽電話有些契約跟要求有心理諮商這個諮商心理臨床心理相關工作必須達兩年以上的這樣的一個工作經驗但是實際上這個就是沒有嘛本身沒有心理師的這個證書然後也沒有當然就沒有什麼什麼兩年以上的這些經驗嘛對不對所以你們確定你們都不都有齁都有具備嘛齁好謝謝"},{"start":12960.049,"end":12987.958,"text":"你知道我們工部門目前尤其中央機關有多少單位委託這家公司嗎環境部 外交部 農業部 經濟部 教育部還有金門縣政府我要提這個就是台灣現今在處理這個員工協助方案的一個處境不僅做不好 甚至被人家騙了而且是一堆工部門被騙還好你們勞動部沒有被騙到"},{"start":12990.703,"end":13011.96,"text":"阿彌陀佛部長也在做功德那公部門都會這個樣子你看民間企業會什麼樣子你看中央幾個部會啊我剛念了五六個以上還有包含地方政府那如果公部門都這個樣子的我再強調一次那企業部門會怎麼樣我們再看一個報導天下雜誌有專題"},{"start":13019.639,"end":13043.79,"text":"霸凌性侵平轉為何企業員工協助方案失靈那這邊報導指出是EAP淪為刑事然後缺乏人性關懷企業引進EAP是基於企業形象而會真正關心員工所以我們勞動部在做EAP是要塑造勞動部的形象還是要真正關心我們相關的同仁"},{"start":13046.256,"end":13063.21,"text":"裡面提到一般企業組不太主動會提供EAP的協助很多是等到出事的時候甚至員工親身才會積極的去連結還是再去啟動這類的資源所以現今的企業EAP更像是事後補救"},{"start":13064.617,"end":13090.358,"text":"絕對不是事前的預防部長你再看一個數據我真的不曉得為什麼這樣因為這個EAP我已經講了兩三年而且是不只是部會我連院的層級我都一個一個一個去講在司法法制委員會在其他的委員會我都一而再再而三去講不厭其晚的講一而再三的提醒那我現在講說部長你看這個"},{"start":13091.859,"end":13117.959,"text":"協助事業單位辦理員工協助方案我們100年08年這個是在疫情前嘛 對不對還有18場 人數是15 1500多109 110 11是疫情它降下來了 沒話講112 一樣10場 人數有多一點點113 一樣有10場 人數再往下降一點點今年是114 請教今年辦了幾場"},{"start":13121.784,"end":13147.801,"text":"勞動部嗎對這個就是勞動部協助事業單位辦理的員工協助方案到今年為止已經辦了幾場今年辦了十場辦了十場的嗎對確定我的資料怎麼是七場我們今年辦十場好 您辦十場是人數多少目前是兩千 兩千二左右兩千二左右也多了沒有很多啊"},{"start":13154.445,"end":13179.245,"text":"我們目前是規劃應該會有2200大概的人次的企業代表來參選所以部長認定有達標了我想這不是我們從我們的角度不一定叫做達標但是如果做得更多更好我們會盡量來進行的確現在部裡面也非常關注就是怎麼樣來規劃友善職場的部分友善職場的配套所以剛剛委員講的我非常同意"},{"start":13179.825,"end":13195.443,"text":"其實EAP當然是一個工具可是最重要的目的還是要改變企業的文化讓企業有辦法可以更大程度去支持勞工我們從這個角度其實也會規劃一些相關其他的配套能夠讓這個配套起來以後能夠更善用EAP這樣的工具OK"},{"start":13196.3,"end":13223.089,"text":"我再補充一個數據給部長通考台灣中小企業約莫大概是167萬家左右全體的企業98%提供將近917萬的就業數所以我們常說中小企業是台灣的骨幹但EAP對中小企業而言是什麼這個專題中有這邊提到了稱EAP對中小企業來講就是奢侈品"},{"start":13224.352,"end":13245.146,"text":"尤其小企業要內要去建立一個EAP幾乎是不可能的任務因素很多甚至有很多就像環境部農業部找一間公司外包結果到底是不是真的EAP也不知道然後要協助中國企業解決這個問題不要讓EAP變成這個奢侈品推廣EAP是勞動部的工作"},{"start":13246.813,"end":13259.687,"text":"這是勞動部的工作而且是要守重因為勞動部每年如果這樣召開市長教育訓練對中小企業設立EAP來協助員工部長你的看法到底有沒有實質的協助"},{"start":13262.433,"end":13278.848,"text":"的確中小企業因為在相比於比較大規模的企業上面其實包括他的人資的制度包括他整體的這個企業內部的治理的狀況有的時候真的比比較大型的企業會差一點這是事實"},{"start":13280.169,"end":13299.557,"text":"所以我们在推广的时候比方说我们确实看到确实比较有人资制度的企业他对EAP的掌握度会比较高那所以我们的确可能会需要在中小企业的协助上面更花一些心力因为如果他没有很健全的人资制度的时候确实要设置这个的挑战会比较大"},{"start":13301.072,"end":13326.392,"text":"部長要講HR嘛 對不對這個報導的專題中也有提到就是說他有明確建議EAP要入法強化企業的責任部長怎麼看而且政府要扮演更積極的角色才能促使企業從出事再處理轉向預防式的管理這樣才能夠真正建立起這個堅固的社會安全網"},{"start":13327.657,"end":13343.589,"text":"就像委員現在秀出來的報導他其實也強調這裡面就是人資跟HR在使用EAP上的角色因為EAP是一個系統可是要怎麼真的能夠把它使用的好其實要有一些人而且專責性的人去使用這部分其實這就是人資系統"},{"start":13344.349,"end":13365.661,"text":"但是我說中小企業有時候它有人資的比例會比較低這也會讓他們去投入這個事情的意願會比較低其實同樣的狀況所以我們自己是希望說當然我們從大型的開始做可是我們其實現在也有一個規劃我們跟我們的福祉師其實我們也希望把這個企業友善職場的做法能夠建立一個資料庫"},{"start":13366.901,"end":13393.406,"text":"然後讓這個資料庫讓大家都知道不同規模的企業在支持勞工上面做了哪些事情大家可以在不同層級上面或不同規模上面去互相的學習那因為可能30人的企業他很難去學習2000人的企業但30人的企業也許他比較有條件去學習40人50人的企業那我們怎麼把這樣子的這個友善職場的資料庫給做出來讓大家可以互相比較互相競爭我們是有這樣的考慮跟規劃"},{"start":13394.807,"end":13411.801,"text":"好 部長這邊有一段話你要看一下這是現狀推動EAP對HR來說是一個高風險的工作許多HR的主管缺乏高層的支持所以他就很難說服他的老闆所以我們就應該扮演更記憶角色所以你對路華你的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":13412.702,"end":13440.246,"text":"我覺得當然是可以大家可以來評估跟考慮的啦只是重點入法以後還是重點是怎麼去落實啦對啊沒有錯法規在台灣的中小企業跟產業的情境裡面其實落實都是反而我們會需要更花心力去思考的一個重點沒有錯啦但是有法制化之後落實會比較實際一點啦是速度也會加快一點好不好一個月內可以吧我們來做一些這個可行性的評估這樣子好一個月內好謝謝謝謝主席"},{"start":13441.948,"end":13456.597,"text":"好謝謝劉警國召委的發言謝謝部長的答詢下一位請洪孟凱委員發言主席謝謝麻煩請洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":13464.69,"end":13479.501,"text":"好 部長好部長來之前本席就有就教過就是因為長榮航空的空服員事件而引發就說這個請假的一個相關的爭議那我知道說昨天我們勞動部已經有針對保障勞工並駕權的會議有召開了前天"},{"start":13482.683,"end":13501.179,"text":"前天兩天前沒錯那現在當然裡面與會代表對於勞工請病假不得扣獎金或是不利處分有高度的共識但是對於不利處分的範圍就是所謂的天數有不同的建議那請教一下到目前為止我們自己勞動部的立場為何"},{"start":13503.115,"end":13519.188,"text":"我想我們當然是我們之所以會召開這個會議就代表我們其實認為現在在勞工勤兵價上面確實應該做更進一步的保障尤其是面對可能有些雇主會過度的使用管理制度造成"},{"start":13520.289,"end":13543.679,"text":"讓大家不敢請必須報病上班的狀況我想我們是意願我們是有這個意圖要來做制度上面的調整的這也是我之前一直在說的那的確現在是大家在思考的事情說這個保障的程度包括保障的天數那大家在這裡面做討論那所以我們禮拜一也邀請了各界一起來表達他的看法論舉從幾天到幾天"},{"start":13546.158,"end":13571.274,"text":"因為一定是有一個Range嘛可能僱主代表會希望是說相對少一點嘛那勞工代表相對多一點嘛我都可以理解啦那或者說到之後還是會回歸到說主管機關的態度 立場因為到之後還是要定出一個時間點我們當然希望對勞工的保護可以多一點是 所以那時候會議裡面的Range有到幾天到幾天其實會議現場應該有人從三天 五天 七天"},{"start":13572.796,"end":13578.666,"text":"12天15天都有人講30天也有人講是那所以到最後那好我請教後續"},{"start":13579.841,"end":13608.796,"text":"部長 後續什麼時候會把它訂因為你開完會了既然你講說從3天到30天就10%到100%那總是到時候你還是要訂出來嘛那後續你要怎麼做第一個我們的確是在這些建議下面我們現在在綜合的評估那時間點那第二個是我們希望這個相關制度上面的調整包括請假規則上面的修訂我自己也希望盡快甚至我們希望明年大概就可以實施嘛"},{"start":13608.936,"end":13626.454,"text":"明年14歲最快今年年底要出來我們能快我就盡量快啊是所以部長我現在確認就是說後續現在意見收集完畢還會再開第二次會嗎還是其實那天會議已經OK了那天是請大家一起來到這個會議但是過程裡面可能還會有針對個別我們會跟個別的"},{"start":13627.295,"end":13643.355,"text":"發言的單位可能會再跟他們確認一下他們一些意見那他們考慮的實質考慮的點其實通常我們會有一個像這樣的會議可是因為私下我們跟這些工會包括跟這些企業還是會有些聯絡現在要看到的是我們勞動部的態度嘛"},{"start":13643.635,"end":13666.478,"text":"就是说针对这个意见你已经有我肯定说我们开了这个会但是后续你开会要有结论那结论我现在因为我还有其他问题所以我是不是能够确认一个时间点什么时候我们会有后续的指引或者是劳工请假规则修正出来第一个我们希望尽快然后第二个我自己很希望明年就可以上路实施好所以说今年年底有办法出来"},{"start":13667.423,"end":13686.958,"text":"才有辦法符合您的期待啊當然啊所以今年年底可以出來當然我沒有想在這事情拖延來那部長那另外請教有勞工代表建議要把友善請假制度列入ESG的一個揭露項目揭露內容本席覺得這也可能變成是我鼓勵"},{"start":13688.649,"end":13710.871,"text":"友善的企業告訴我們全台的民眾哪一些雇主針對這個部分是友善的那也許他會有一個bonus就是說他在徵才的時候更多的勞工願意來去投這個投履歷來去應徵您怎麼看第一個納入ESG的部分我們很願意跟金管會在這部分來做討論"},{"start":13712.112,"end":13730.196,"text":"那過去我們其實已經這個也不需要金管會同意因為勞動部如果說有的話其實就可以拔給金管會會做它是一個揭露EHCG揭露的一些範例那金管會會請各部會會放入ESG的部分來去做提出那就是勞動部如果說同意或說勞動部認為說這個東西是一個指標我們當然認為這是一個好的方法"},{"start":13730.636,"end":13756.582,"text":"是 所以說你願意我們願意來嘗試但是這裡面當然就會有跟包括幾個相關的部會因為金管會他目前管的部分比較是在EHG的揭露上面部長 本席這樣子理解你剛回答的態度本席理解你剛回答的態度應該算是正向看待接納這一個意見我也希望這樣子好那這樣子不要說到最後沒有嘛那如果說沒有的話就政府因為政府是一體的"},{"start":13757.702,"end":13784.332,"text":"我想政府是一體的不是互推皮球在這邊講完這邊算然後結果我到九樓大禮堂換要諮詢金管會諮詢財政的時候財政部長另外一套那如果說真的願意往這個方向推那是不是部長能夠譬如說召集找金管會換你找金管會來開會請金管會把他放入那就是我們往這個方向做是的委員政府是一體的但是我的發言人比較只能夠代表勞動部"},{"start":13785.692,"end":13809.014,"text":"我覺得我們這個相關院現在大家非常非常關心病假協會檢查權的部分來行人別說我行為啦說實在勞動部願意放入如果說你有這樣的意向我覺得不會有其他部會說會否決勞動部但重點在於是說是不是把這個東西給揭露讓其他的企業能夠來去做遵循其實我覺得這個是加分項目"},{"start":13810.371,"end":13818.84,"text":"這個叫做加分項目他不是說你把它揭露出來讓那個企業能夠有這個加分項目我覺得這是好事我們盡快來跟金管會討論吧盡快 對兩個禮拜內可以嗎可以啊好 謝謝部長最後一個問題"},{"start":13826.935,"end":13851.454,"text":"勞動部在之前那個呂樹業有講是說就是加薪2000元來可以新聘移工我想先確認一下2000怎麼來的這個數字第一個2000這個數字我們其實當然當初有好幾個數字評估對 但本席跟很多國內人納悶就是說為什麼是加薪2000我們考慮幾件事情一個月30天加薪2000那平均一天加薪不到100塊"},{"start":13853.766,"end":13881.851,"text":"那現在最低工資28590加薪2000平均不到十分之一啊那這樣子真的有實質的幫助本勞嗎跟我的說明第一個我們其實當初也評估如果把加薪的幅度拉得比較大的話那可能會受惠的本國勞工就會少一點就是如果加薪的幅度再拉大一點的話可能雇主會考慮的就會少"},{"start":13882.688,"end":13907.662,"text":"可能受惠的會少一點沒有 僱主的想法一定是他加薪譬如說他加薪三千元他可以多請一個外勞那他重點就讓僱主去思考說他到底是要再多請一個外勞的人力來還是說他其實可以善待他原本有的員工所以我要提的事情是說其實我們在這次的配套其實有講加薪兩千可以取得一個名額但三年後你如果要保持這個名額你還必須再加一次"},{"start":13908.923,"end":13924.215,"text":"三年後 就累進的加薪然後每一次都是兩千對 而且同樣的人數還要再加一次來 那部長我們在這次方案裡面是很明定這件事情的所以說三年有一個持續加薪的機制就保障這個員工如果說在旅宿業的話他可以持續"},{"start":13925.456,"end":13945.564,"text":"增加他的收入另外一個部分就是怎麼樣監督確實有加薪我們會依照他的薪資單還是勞保會在我們的系統裡面在勞保裡面來去確認我們會確認他有比方說他這個企業如果需要10個增加的名額他就要挑10個相對低薪的勞工就是低薪的勞工"},{"start":13947.044,"end":13971.902,"text":"比较低薪的来加薪那我们看到有加薪以后才能确保他这个名额所以说有先有确认他的一个加薪的部分那可能他就变是说他报他的薪资单或者说他的劳保申请如果没有加到的话我们如果没有加他是假加薪反正就是他申请填完了之后我们会这样粉丝理解一下我们会有一个申请机制有意愿的饭店业者他来去"},{"start":13972.382,"end":14000.208,"text":"登錄申請機制並且提供相關的文件確實他有加薪了他才可以取得名額就是我們會檢核然後如果他是假加薪或他沒有做到加薪的話我們就會撤銷他的名額所以說他一定是先加完薪並且檢附相關的文件讓我們勞動部這邊確認之後他才可以取得一個聘請外勞的名額我們會來檢核這件事情你會檢核一樣我們會定期的來檢核你會定期檢核所以一開始的申請"},{"start":14002.629,"end":14027.96,"text":"一開始申請會有一次的確認機制然後也會有定期的檢核我們會定期的檢核那如果他就是說他如果做假那就是廢掉他這個名額然後確保這個有加薪的事實達成所以如果說未來假設他先申請到我們也會不定期的集合因為變成是有多少申請的飯店業你其實是可以掌握的嘛對不對你會有一個譬如說"},{"start":14028.8,"end":14048.076,"text":"用這樣子辦法來申請的飯店業的名單那業者名單裡面你可能不定期會集合抽查那如果說抽查集合那如果說裡面還有一些飯店業者他可能比較真的99%一定都是符合我們法規但如果說1%他又把它調回來或甚至說他就讓那加薪的員工"},{"start":14050.038,"end":14076.208,"text":"離職等等那我們會取消他的我們就會按比例取消他的這個名額等於是說我們就是要確保一定是先保障本國勞工才有聘請外國 外籍員工這是我們政策設計的原意好 但是設計的原意沒有錯所以說本席也在這邊就教您是說到底我們的集合以及落實的方案是什麼所以現在目前都有想到這些部分我們會有查核的其實當然好 OK那未來等政策上路之後我們也要一一來檢視好不好 謝謝"},{"start":14078.327,"end":14090.895,"text":"好謝謝黃孟愷委員發言謝謝部長答詢下一位請房卿黃委員發言謝謝主席我們請部長好有請部長黃委員好"},{"start":14097.267,"end":14122.258,"text":"部長好 部長我先請教就是說勞動部在112年有公布一個勞僱雙方約定工資給付日及工資給付指導原則那這個是針對月薪這個月薪制的這個僱主在薪資發放時間上就是需要遵循的一些相關規範那我想請教就是說這個指導原則在112年開始推動之後"},{"start":14124.219,"end":14131.566,"text":"那當時有一個推進的一個時程我想請教部長就是說到現在落實的這個狀況如何"},{"start":14135.047,"end":14151.984,"text":"跟文報告112年那時候訂定的時候其實是因為有一些個案比如說保全保全人員他們這個月工資勞務給付完了要領薪水的時候下個月會到15號以後然後雇主才發薪是所以為了改善這個狀況當時就訂了這個原則"},{"start":14154.807,"end":14158.349,"text":"那這個原則訂了以後呢 112年訂了以後我們113年有把地方政府都邀集過來那請地方政府就他們轄區內的部分要積極輔導然後去了解那目前為止我們其實有請地方政府了解有沒有這個勞工陳情"},{"start":14174.296,"end":14201.867,"text":"就針對他的工資給付發放日覺得有權益受損的勞資增益案件目前這樣的案件是不多不過我們今年過完之後明年初的時候會再邀集地方政府我們再做一個檢視滾動式的去檢討那我想請教就是說你們自己有沒有去盤點就是說這個企業或者是地方政府跟你們回報的就是有遵照這樣的一個指導原則來進行"},{"start":14204.368,"end":14224.128,"text":"因為依法上面呢這個雇主其實只要他有定期每個月支付兩次工資然後雙方如果約定有支付一次那在這個指導原則下其實雇主是不會有違法就是他的發放薪資日其實是雙方議定"},{"start":14224.949,"end":14249.392,"text":"所以這個部分我們目前是透過這個地方政府他去訪視事業單位的時候幫我們了解那普查的部分我們是沒有做這樣子動用到大家去進到事業單位普查但是我們是透過地方政府要了解所有的勞資爭議案件有沒有這一類型的所以你們是透過勞資爭議案件去看有沒有接獲陳情或者是"},{"start":14250.753,"end":14265.666,"text":"那如果說因為當初你們有這樣的一個指引有一個指導原則那也有特別提到就是說可能在2023年就是剛開始的時候你們有指引就是說500人以上就是10日那到2025年就是5日"},{"start":14266.767,"end":14283.743,"text":"就是有這樣的一個指導原則那我不知道說這些企業有按照你們這樣的一個指導原則下去做或者是沒有那你剛剛講的就是說好像就是地方的這個地方政府好像也沒有回報就是說有類似的這個勞資糾紛"},{"start":14286.886,"end":14315.918,"text":"那如果没有的话那你怎么去知道就是说我原本有这样的一个指导原则也希望就是说我们的这个资方能够尽早把这个薪资发放到这个这个劳方的手上嘛那既然有这样的一个指导原则那你们是不是也要去统计一下到底有多少人有按照这样一个指导原则去做或者是没有那我相信很多的这个劳工都希望这个能够尽早他劳务都已经这个"},{"start":14316.818,"end":14337.581,"text":"工作都已經整個月的工作都做完了這個月的薪資在下個月是不是能夠儘早能夠拿到也許他會有需要家裡面的經濟的開銷都需要這筆錢既然有這樣的一個指導原則你們是不是也要去統計一下到底有沒有去落實"},{"start":14338.402,"end":14351.498,"text":"是的委員我們現在是有規劃在明年的時候會請地方政府幫我們針對轄區內的事業單位特別規模大的部分去了解然後回報我們勞動部做一個這個檢討這個指導原則的一個參考"},{"start":14354.341,"end":14376.64,"text":"那我想請教就是說因為我們這個指導原則也沒有什麼法則可是我們在那個勞基法上面就有約定工資支付的這個相關規定跟法則那有沒有未來有沒有可能就是把我們原本的這個勞僱雙方約定工資的給付日還有工資給付指導原則這個部分直接入法有沒有可能"},{"start":14378.796,"end":14392.835,"text":"委員我們可能步驟上面會先了解實際上面的狀況跟勞工或者是工會對於這一方面權益受損的情形那了解過後我們再評估這個法制面的部分有沒有再需要加強的地方好"},{"start":14393.456,"end":14419.581,"text":"我希望就是說不論是公部門或者是私部門應該是要先從公部門自己做起因為我們有很多各單位都會有月聘僱人員或臨時人員那如果薪資可以在這個勞務的隔月的5日內就可以拿到的話其實我覺得應該是你們既然勞動部有這樣的一個指導原則那是不是可以先從公部門這邊做起"},{"start":14421.397,"end":14445.973,"text":"委員您的這個提示我們可以盡快跟公共工程委員會還有我們這個人種這個部分我們做一個溝通協商評估看這個部分怎麼落實下去因為有很多都是到月中的時候才領到那如果既然我們有這樣的一個指導原則那是不是就先從公部門自己做起"},{"start":14446.673,"end":14472.815,"text":"對不對先從立法院做起也可以或是先從勞動部你們自己的這個約聘僱人員開始做起是不是可以這樣子做我們來參考委員的這個建議好那接下來我想請教部長就是說我們之前這個80歲免巴士量表那可以申請這個外籍看護外籍看護工那我想請教就是說從這個制度開始之後到現在申請的狀況如何"},{"start":14474.036,"end":14497.909,"text":"那會不會排擠到一些重症的這個患者就目前我們看到的數據從8月開始上路申請到目前11月應該是11月初吧那我們看到的數據是目前因為這個修法而取得資格而有來申請的大概是1萬多了1萬人這樣子"},{"start":14498.823,"end":14512.808,"text":"那我們當然希望目前還是希望透過各種配套來去降低當初大家其實可能遇到的衝擊所以當初我們在8月的時候我們其實也提出了六大的配套的措施希望來去降低衝擊"},{"start":14514.329,"end":14531.234,"text":"所以目前的狀況是還好不會去衝擊到這個可能重症或者是這個重度殘障這些朋友的這個權益我們確實還是有聽到有一些重症的家庭他們也在表達他們的"},{"start":14532.614,"end":14560.712,"text":"這個外籍的康護那近期其實當然會各種的在工作現場會表達說是不是想要換到別的地方去確實會有這樣的一個狀況也會有這樣子的表達那我們也了解這樣子的表達存在那只是我們還是希望因為修法通過了那從行政部門角度我們還是要想辦法執行然後來降低衝擊所以只要能做的降低衝擊的我想我們還是會盡力來做"},{"start":14561.973,"end":14581.01,"text":"因為其實我們都會聽到就是說原本的外籍看護他可能想要他會覺得說這個比較不好照顧那他想要換也許他會跟家人會特別提到就是說他想要換個環境 換個工作"},{"start":14581.59,"end":14607.032,"text":"那通常這個家庭他也許希望他留下來就會給他薪資可能再加一些所以我希望就是說勞動部針對這部分你們應該也要持續去關心因為確實這個也會造成重症家庭的比較大的一個負擔而且外籍看護他也許他會一直表達他想要"},{"start":14608.913,"end":14629.518,"text":"換個環境所以我希望說你們真的也要持續去關心這樣的一個事情不要讓後面真的原本家裡面有這樣的一個家人就已經這個負擔就已經蠻大的就已經很辛苦了那如果又遇到這個看護他又想要跳槽要跳到其他地方去其實這個對這個家庭來講都是負擔蠻大的"},{"start":14633.46,"end":14661.879,"text":"那我希望就是说部长针对这一部分我们还是持续关心那我还是会持续关心因为确实这个问题是还存在的因为我们在跑行程的时候都会有听到这样的一个声音我们有收到这样的讯息所以我们持续关心不要后面造成这样的一个家庭更大的一个负担谢谢谢谢房秀安委员的发言谢谢部长的答询下一位请林淑芬委员发言"},{"start":14670.526,"end":14680.252,"text":"好 謝謝主席是不是再請我們洪部長有請洪部長蘇分委員好"},{"start":14681.093,"end":14704.591,"text":"部長在政策上面最近拋出了一個小孩的家庭也可以聘外籍家庭幫傭行政院在研議就是說只要現行的家庭幫傭每個月5000元的就業安定費提高到8000元就可以以價值量大概朝著這個方向去開放"},{"start":14705.191,"end":14714.617,"text":"你覺得勞動部在行政院的指示之下你會這樣子做嗎我想我們都是綜合的在評估中"},{"start":14715.51,"end":14741.966,"text":"綜合式評估在這裡我讓我提醒你幾個問題婦女薪資還有勞政發布的新聞稿反對他們認為放寬聘僱家庭幫傭這樣的人力市場只能加惠少數富貴人家凸顯社會不公平的現象會使現行公共托育服務倒退回家庭化過度市場化的模式"},{"start":14742.426,"end":14765.5,"text":"好 我就我剛才講行政院指示的就業安定費用從五千提高到八千可以以價質量這一句話來講這一句話顯然以價質量就不是每個人可以負擔得起的嘛就不是要讓每個人負擔得起嘛就是為了某個經濟能力以上的人在開這個方便門的嘛不是嗎 這一句話"},{"start":14770.677,"end":14799.127,"text":"就業安定費要繳8000喔因為剛剛委員在講到一些民間團體的聲音我們其實也有聽到也有看到所以現在就是各種不同的聲音因為的確有人講到他的需求然後各種不同的聲音但就綜合在評估有人 那有人是誰啊現在行政院講的是一個月就業安定費8000以價質量他就不是要讓大家來用的嘛以價質量就是要限縮在用得起的人才能用嘛"},{"start":14800.427,"end":14820.627,"text":"你覺得這樣的政策會是一個好的政策嗎你的政策目標鎖定的是有消費能力有經濟能力高的那一些婦女嗎那我現在再跟你提醒第二件事當全世界所有的國家都在對公共政策就是在"},{"start":14821.368,"end":14847.427,"text":"解決少子化幫女性幫年輕人的家庭解決托育的問題的時候都是往國家幫忙養的方向不是嗎我們也是如此號稱啊但是當我們也跟著全世界潮流再往國家幫忙養的方向的時候怎麼會突然轉彎變成孩子自己找外擁帶自己養"},{"start":14849.329,"end":14872.375,"text":"你覺得這樣的轉彎適合嗎那我再提醒你第三件事移工政策的最核心是什麼移工政策的最核心是它只能是補充原則絕對不能夠產生替代你們說你們要做政策評估你心裡面也有數這個東西會不會搶走了國內從業人員的工作"},{"start":14878.052,"end":14888.539,"text":"大家都知道即便是補充原則他也會產生另一種效果對國內的員工衝擊很大是什麼這30年來你知道的部長是什麼即便是補充原則對國內的勞工還是產生很大的衝擊是什麼勞動條件上面勞動條件簡單來講薪資的滑坡薪資的滑坡"},{"start":14907.448,"end":14926.677,"text":"低薪化本來我們是有國內的就業人員如果你政策適當你不是補充你搶走了國內不管是家庭幫傭的家事服務的國內居家托育的或是保姆在宅這個托育的"},{"start":14927.677,"end":14950.467,"text":"或是幼兒園的 幼兒園的生意也都一樣啊本來是這樣的 而且每個保姆每一個人都要有合格的證照要上過課 要訓練當國內的托育是這樣子專業化在前進的時候你們外籍移工的開放有可能要證照嗎會跟保姆一樣要證照嗎"},{"start":14955.427,"end":14971.187,"text":"委員這真的是在總體的評估之中欸啊 抽屜裡面喔總體的評估之中總體的評估 你先就我問就教於你的你提一下你個人的看法 回應一下"},{"start":14973.736,"end":14983.2,"text":"任何外國人力的開放與否的政策當然都要那我先問你一句話啦提供家事勞動服務的還有保母的 顧小孩的還有幼兒園從業的你覺得這個產業 這一些產業"},{"start":14992.003,"end":15013.901,"text":"服務業支援服務業從業人員有多少在家庭幫傭家事勞動托兒育兒這個領域總的加起來的總就業人口數是多少你告訴我清潔人員保姆家事服務家事勞動有多少人有多少就業人口"},{"start":15015.643,"end":15040.043,"text":"家事服務大概是數千到萬吧你有在說 我有聽到對不對家事服務數千到一萬家事服務 家事服務的部分家事服務保姆餒對 保姆不是家事服務我現在問你總的啊總的我可能要另外再講家庭幫傭他要來取代誰的工作啊難道不是保姆嗎不是家事服務嗎家事勞動 家庭幫傭啊"},{"start":15042.219,"end":15066.583,"text":"然後小孩就從公共領域公共托育回到家庭但沒有衝擊到幼兒園沒有衝擊到托兒那個保母的這個托兒產業嗎衝擊多大我先問你是從業人員有多少目前詳細的數字我可能手邊沒有好我現在告訴你"},{"start":15067.526,"end":15087.939,"text":"保姆清潔人員等其他服務業還有所謂的資源服務業從這一些來看家庭幫傭所替代掉的從業的女性比例這一些從業女性大概佔整體女性的從業人口的有人推估是7.7%所以推估起來總的"},{"start":15090.1,"end":15107.221,"text":"女性就業人數是510萬以7.7%去推估從業人員有三四十萬三四十萬保姆家庭幫傭清潔人員還有這個公共托育托兒這一些總的加起來幾十萬"},{"start":15109.953,"end":15137.375,"text":"你可能會說我可能人家這樣講法是高退估那也不管兩萬也很多三萬保姆三萬也很多人家剛才就是這樣在質疑你當初開放這個長照的外傭外籍移工不是也是這樣退估嗎那我現在也是這樣退估給你看嘛所以在這樣子裡面會受到這幾十萬的人的就業會受到多大的衝擊我現在還在講喔"},{"start":15139.212,"end":15163.401,"text":"沒有這個政策以前 你們還沒有開放嘛現在評估嘛 沒有開放以前很多職業婦女仰賴就是她二度就業就去當終點費的清潔或是到府服務的保姆他們去取得證照所以這是從業人員都是中高齡的台灣婦女然後如果你們把這個門檻鬆綁以後呢大家都去請外籍幫庸的話這個會失業的啊"},{"start":15166.711,"end":15186.425,"text":"再來我剛剛講孩子留在家裡面衝擊的也是幼兒園托兒所托嬰中心也是女性衝擊的也是女性再來我剛剛講的從業人員要證照你現在把他外籍化了他連語言能力都不一定好你顯然你們覺得看顧孩子就是吃喝拉撒睡"},{"start":15187.185,"end":15213.863,"text":"整個國家在整個公共托育還有這個保姆上照顧幼兒上我們都專業化的往證照制度在推結果國家在前進的時候你們如果政策轉彎專業化 證照化在轉彎那你們就是認為說這個幼兒只需要照顧他嬰兒吃喝拉撒睡幼兒看顧他不要跌倒不要有危險這樣子而已嗎"},{"start":15216.927,"end":15222.265,"text":"語言文化上的隔閡也不重要然後再來呢"},{"start":15224.349,"end":15250.821,"text":"我們在講說這個經濟能力誰可以負擔經濟能力誰可以負擔你們以價質量你們已經宣稱了這不是給一般婦女用的光沒有聘僱的成本你就要先繳8000元的就業安定基金那再加上聘僱的我現在在講外籍移工不是源源不絕你還要產業界在搶"},{"start":15253.117,"end":15268.663,"text":"還有跟這個長照看護的在搶移工的價格是不便宜的不便宜的再加上你的就業安定基金 一個月不是3萬 4萬啦 最少5萬但是呢什麼人負擔不去 每個月5萬 8萬 什麼人負擔不去保證什麼人負擔不去"},{"start":15281.926,"end":15303.084,"text":"金字塔頂端的家庭一個月可以花8萬金字塔頂端哪有一個國家的誘餌開放家庭幫傭 你是服務你的國家政策是服務有錢人而已這樣的政策是最好的政策嗎還直接說我要以價值量"},{"start":15305.066,"end":15333.196,"text":"你們要 你們瓦解了這個公共托育的政策大家都大肚子餓 去搶一個來購公共托育瓦解誰受災受災的當然是那個經濟能力負擔不起不要以為你們不會衝擊到產業衝擊到婦女 中高齡婦女的就業你們還衝擊到產業而你們還說你們在評估 我覺得你們就是要 因為這麼多年來一直都是要啦"},{"start":15335.832,"end":15347.344,"text":"再來 我再教你 部長你覺得一個個人僱主個人聘僱一個家事個人聘僱的家事幫傭或是其實外籍移工看護的也一樣"},{"start":15348.553,"end":15366.057,"text":"作為一個個人僱主他真的有能力把勞動條件給看守好嗎更不要講他的勞動環境你可以給人家一個單獨的獨立的然後勞動條件你的勞動條件要怎麼定難道要放任跟看護長照一樣嗎24小時全年無休給那麼一點點的加班費就買斷了他"},{"start":15373.318,"end":15401.957,"text":"當成21世紀把它當成現代奴隸一樣的驅使嗎你們如果去你們對於他的勞動條件要怎麼把關你有辦法把關在私領域在私宅裡面有辦法把關嗎勞動條件你要怎麼設定你沒有辦法設定要再一次的步入我們長照長照看護的外籍移工的那種處境嗎你的想像是什麼你就這一點你來談談看"},{"start":15406.025,"end":15430.697,"text":"這個相關的政策的確各方有不太一樣的意見然後不太一樣的需求所以我們現在針對這些不同的各方 少數的各方啦少數 你忘了講兩個字 少數我們針對這些各方的需求就是在做評估跟各種可能效應等等的評估目前的情況就是這樣子從長照看護裡面我們已經看到很多了就是說大家玩家衝突"},{"start":15432.149,"end":15453.69,"text":"脅迫雇主 逼迫雇主說你非得同意我轉換雇主不可那我現在在問你說 家庭幫傭也一樣啊是不是可能成為移工轉換行業的跳板有沒有可能 管理上的漏洞啊有沒有可能要洗澡這要再算什麼 要再換雞要再炒"},{"start":15455.131,"end":15482.996,"text":"大家都覺得這是外籍移工的問題 可是事實上是嗎你如果沒有訂出好的勞動條件然後人家產業上虛空籍啊然後在那裡人家用好的薪資而且固定的工時而且要符合勞基法的規定人家就挖走了啊然後流動性也會跟著跳啊跟搶 流動性高啊"},{"start":15484.704,"end":15495.074,"text":"不是嗎 柏中你都不敢說 你一句話就不敢說你都不敢說 你都知道啦 心知肚明可是呢 你們會不會還是要繼續要這樣做我曉得我問你這樣好了我這樣做好了 第一個你說要做評估 請問你們產業衝擊評估有沒有做了 委託了沒"},{"start":15509.076,"end":15536.267,"text":"就是各方面我們都在評估你誰評估啊 你要專業去評估還是你們自己評估 怎麼評估有些部分我們跟衛福部討論第二個 有沒有做過性別平等評估有沒有做出符合兒童最佳利益的評估你難道不需要嗎你這樣子交給外籍移工來吃拉撒碎的顧小孩跟我們朝向證照制度專業化的顧小孩保姆都要證照"},{"start":15537.625,"end":15561.904,"text":"你這樣子沒有損及兒童最佳利益嗎你在性別上面對我們二度就業的婦女就業難道沒有衝擊嗎你們在性平上產業衝擊上要怎麼評估你說你們評估你們怎麼評估不是都要說我要做評估我要做評估五個字不是你們要請誰做要怎麼做要做哪些評估"},{"start":15569.142,"end":15592.543,"text":"現在就是綜合在評估中你不敢講 你也回答不出來連說你們有沒有做這一些評估好 那我問你你認不認為需要做兒童最佳福利的這個評估你認不認為應該要做是不是符合兒童最佳福利要不要做這種評估我覺得各個層面都必須考慮"},{"start":15593.883,"end":15601.236,"text":"你繼續打高空 你講不出來好 沒關係 我知道因為真的是回答不出來啦"},{"start":15604.231,"end":15631.113,"text":"我也是傻眼那我問你別的問題好了現在旅遊業開放中階移工那以薪資門檻三萬二要求要有華語能力技能資格大家知道旅宿業這個不是地帶啦這補充啦 因為沒有人要走嘛但是最怕衝擊的就是薪資衝擊嘛但是在這種狀況裡面我要問你我也時間有限我只問你一件事情啦"},{"start":15631.954,"end":15638.081,"text":"你知道旅宿業大家流行一句話 整本店都要倒了啦都要倒了啦"},{"start":15640.667,"end":15661.094,"text":"你在審核他缺工的相關資訊的時候要不要審核他的營運狀況那特別是大家都知道台灣旅宿業的環境不好經營不善如果倒閉了這個移工被迫要失業然後這些失業因為關閉倒閉的移工你的管理配套是什麼"},{"start":15662.952,"end":15673.578,"text":"跟委員說明第一個我們目前其實目前開放的比較是在這個觀光旅館跟飯店業那這個觀光旅館跟飯店現在倒閉潮很多嗎倒閉潮當然這個企業的狀況我想"},{"start":15681.882,"end":15696.009,"text":"目前他有這個缺工的缺包括我們在我們自己的調查你也看出他有這個缺工尤其是比較基層的工作的缺工的需求是有的所以我說補充原則不是替代是 台灣人不要做所以補充沒關係"},{"start":15696.969,"end":15725.145,"text":"但我現在在說的是倒閉潮倒閉潮可是你申請了一大堆外籍移工進來這個旅館這個飯店倒閉以後這些移工的安置的配套未來的管理配套是什麼你總不能叫他在那裡漫長的等待吧當然如果這個企業遇到了比方說經營不善的狀況無法再經營下去那當然這個移工就變成我們要來協助全力協助他轉換"},{"start":15726.895,"end":15749.284,"text":"就慢慢的等待這樣子嗎其實不是慢慢等待因為接下來其實我們也把現在在技術能力的需求給打開了所以我們認為對於轉換也會比較有利所以你叫下游去幫他擦屁股那你為什麼不再上游你需不需要在他申請的時候要對於他的營運狀況也要一併考量從上游源頭管理嘛"},{"start":15750.868,"end":15779.978,"text":"不用嗎然後大家進來然後一直管理不善的營運不善的也申請了可是做沒幾個月就倒了你還要幫他處理跟委員說明第一個當然這部分這個飯店業他的管理或他的經營這部分可能很難是勞動部這邊來去說我要對你設一個我現在講是他要申請外籍移工你在審查的時候要不要框一個要件"},{"start":15782.185,"end":15796.395,"text":"我不知道這是不是一定要啦但是我想到的是倒閉的時候要怎麼處理就算要檢視的話我們可能要跟消防部一起討論那我再問你如果這個倒閉非自願性失業的移工那他會不會適用這個那個失業給付失業給付目前是沒有的因為失業給付主要是來自救保"},{"start":15807.881,"end":15835.994,"text":"那救保啊 雇主啊所以我才講作為一個個人雇主是不是有能力cover起來他其實連勞動條件都很難去cover起來所以個人雇主我們一直在主張個人雇主的這一個制度要不要落日作為外籍移工的雇主從長照到現在你要再開放我們都一直在討論說要不要落日結果你們一直在討論要不要再開更多的門"},{"start":15836.974,"end":15864.834,"text":"那個人聘僱外籍移工的僱主他的能力就是這麼的有限他就是在勞動條件上沒有辦法去支撐然後呢 你如果再叫他講說如果失業在那裡漫長等待對人家 如果一般勞工也是不公平的啊那在這種狀況裡面 你叫他救保費用你也繼續繳 幫這些移工也繳那是不可能的啊 對不對我問你啦 廠工有沒有繳救保"},{"start":15865.612,"end":15875.108,"text":"沒有 廠工的老闆也沒有因為廠工不會他們就三年一聘不會突然倒了廠工沒有算因為他補充人力所以他沒有算在救保裡面"},{"start":15875.851,"end":15896.031,"text":"對啊 少數嘛就是基本上還算穩定的嘛但是飯店旅宿可能那個不穩性一定很高你要去想一想啦稍微要想一下好 謝謝重點是剛才在講的只為少數人服務的那一個開放那個門要好好的想啦 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請盧縣議委員來做詢問"},{"start":15910.193,"end":15936.48,"text":"有請部長各位好新的一年要到了那部長我之前我有詢問說關於我們原住民的那個植栽的風險之前我們在看的時候是植栽風險就高了16倍因為這樣看的話3.54這是我們原住民的"},{"start":15937.06,"end":15957.796,"text":"一般國人的話是0.221那死亡率是全國的6倍也就是說我上次有詢問我們的何部長說能不能提供一個所謂的我們的死亡類別或者說分析它的形成的原因有助於我們以後預防它的發生所以有在做這方面的分析或者是說進度嗎"},{"start":15960.817,"end":15979.467,"text":"對不起 我在說明就是說我們勞工的職災死亡個案分析因為我們知道現在我們的死亡率是高於一般國人的6倍我們職災風險是16倍所以在去年的時候我有請勞動部提供我們這方面的一個資訊給我可是到現在還沒有看到"},{"start":15981.428,"end":16009.647,"text":"我們就把這個資訊卡還提供給委員吧好不好一個禮拜內提供可以好 謝謝其實常常會發生就是說我們的勞工是因為墜落或者是層層轉包這些營造業我們會發現說去找這些真正的老闆的時候其實找不到是這個方面的一個機率有沒有變少因為我覺得去年我們在詢問的時候很像責任歸屬"},{"start":16012.469,"end":16033.922,"text":"實際找不到應該要負責的老闆所以這方面你們有在做追蹤嗎對 這也是這次修法的重點我想知道說這方面比如說轉包的責任鏈你被勒令停工的這一年裡面實際有停工的案例嗎有有嗎當然希望能夠一併報給我好嗎當然好"},{"start":16035.723,"end":16062.281,"text":"那就是我們現在有在推我們的原住民的降災或是減災的一個專案比如說你們引進了什麼現代科技 科技減災的工作坊我有看到你們所做的努力可是我想知道說這些真正的智慧科技防災的這個部分你要怎麼落實在部落或是非典型僱用的這些中小型包商所僱用的原住民勞工你要怎麼實際應用上 你有沒有想到"},{"start":16063.711,"end":16083.246,"text":"這個智慧防災的做法是現在業界在針對治安的問題非常重要的部分甚至很多還運用AI來去做相關的風險評估跟決策當然他可能不一定說特別針對原住民族的這個族人的勞工那他當然就是相關的勞工都希望能夠有幫忙"},{"start":16084.695,"end":16108.169,"text":"對 當然就是說我們就智慧工地科技減債這個部分是很值得肯定不過我希望有一些減債的指標你不論是從定性或是定量這個方面來做一些指標比如說如果是從定量的話我們來看你重大職災死亡人數的減少率你應該說2030年或者是說幾年之內我們可以把這個死亡率從原本是博人的6倍能不能"},{"start":16109.309,"end":16133.157,"text":"減為國人的一倍兩倍這樣至少要讓原住民的勞工說政府有在做這方面的努力根本說明比方說舉例來說我們的數字看到112年這個重大植栽死亡的統計在營建工程的部分原住民是死亡是13位那今年一直到今年的現在10月底目前的數字是7位其實可以看得到一些改善的"},{"start":16133.757,"end":16153.171,"text":"改善的幅度因為我看到的是整體性的比如說你們的報告裡面在111年的策略裡面看到說希望兩年內能夠減少10%那我希望這個原住民因為是高高於國人六倍的話是不是在標準會可以定得更高讓我們的安全性可以顧及我們所有的原住民勞工可以嗎"},{"start":16154.051,"end":16180.899,"text":"我跟文說明我們其實這次修職案法也包括接下來會希望能夠提出一個在職災上面的減災的計畫其實就是希望全面性的把這個職災的風險給降低我希望有定性的也有定量的所以這個部分希望你們再多做努力然後第二個主題就是說我在去年有發現一個個案就是在他的賠償不公與單身者的一個保障的問題就是去年的10月17號的質詢"},{"start":16182.279,"end":16204.624,"text":"我看到有一個就是族人來陳情就說因為他沒有仔細清楚結果他勞保的死亡給付就是導致有天然之別可以有180萬然後如果有家屬或者是有婚姻的話是900萬在那個差別我是覺得說面對這些高風險單身非典型勞工這些保障能不能做一些這方面的改進"},{"start":16206.621,"end":16229.079,"text":"其實如果委員有相關的建議的話我們很願意來參考因為這個高風險的勞工當然是我們最希望能夠保護的一群就是常常是會發生在沒有結婚的或者是父母親已經不在結果沒有所謂的那個可以繼承的這些保險金的結果他的那個金額就非常低這是去年實際發生的案例在台中"},{"start":16230.212,"end":16257.007,"text":"跟委員報告 我也是在提到說勞工他死亡 他因為是單身有兄弟姊妹來領遺屬年金或者是津貼的時候可能不符合資格這個主要是因為我們大法官會議解釋549號的解釋認為說遺屬津貼是所得的替代所以他要避免遺屬生活無辜必須受被保險生前撫養"},{"start":16258.628,"end":16279.517,"text":"為條件他不是遺產所以我們有一定的條件就是說這個兄弟姐妹必須在生前受到被保險是撫養的人他才可以是受益人來請那最後一個問題就是說我們的執訓的資源錯位就是說我們可以發現我們的現在原住民的那個執訓類別大概就是餐飲業民宿職業駕駛美容美髮這些那我們一直"},{"start":16282.978,"end":16302.939,"text":"知道說我們目前的原住民勞工跟一般國人勞工平均的薪資差距在一萬元以上那我覺得說是不是我們可以給策略性的引導族人去受高薪之類的一個資訊比如說目前在推的利率人才風電維護 太陽能安裝這方面的專班計畫可以讓我們原住民勞工也可以進入這個職場"},{"start":16307.469,"end":16327.287,"text":"其實基本上這些職類基本上大家都沒有去做身份的設限當然我們也特別希望原住民的勞工如果要更大的投入我們也是很歡迎的你應該可以明訂一個名額比如說常常在我們的資訊裡面因為沒有這方面的一個名額所以就不會有"},{"start":16328.227,"end":16341.14,"text":"有人去受訓因為看到的類別裡面就是駕訓班美容美髮課 蒼蠅這方面的訓練就沒有這方面綠領人才其實我想我們很歡迎原住民的朋友一起來報名這些相關的課程包括綠領 風電"},{"start":16343.826,"end":16368.436,"text":"然後綠能相關的部分的確是薪資是比較高的我們在111年看到我們光復沙老部落它原名會運用了綜合發展基金貸款然後結合地方創生讓培訓落地然後轉換成為我們訓練走向就業的一個成功模式那我要講的就是說我們能不能就是勞動部這邊也可以結合我們"},{"start":16369.036,"end":16384.784,"text":"原民會然後就在地就業成功模式來推廣比如說他們成功的經驗我們就用這樣的方式來各個社區或者是部落來推廣讓實際我們的年輕人留在部落然後就業能夠真正落實在各個層面這樣"},{"start":16386.792,"end":16404.413,"text":"我們來看用什麼方式我想我們可能這部分會需要跟園民會一起來討論對 所以我希望能夠跨部會的對 這可能要跟園民會來討論因為園民會會更比我們更清楚知道原住民的需求這樣子好 那看哪些部分能夠跨部會一起來合作的我們當然願意盡量來去做參考"},{"start":16404.693,"end":16426.447,"text":"好 那希望部長就我們原住民的死亡率能夠再多費心所謂的6倍 還有現在勞工風險 勞安風險是16倍這個差距希望在明年或者是近幾年能夠獲得實質的改善謝謝好 謝謝接下來請羅廷偉委員來做詢問"},{"start":16434.424,"end":16453.872,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長來 請部長部長要喝水嗎不用喔可以先用餐 沒關係陸委員好好 部長好部長 長榮航空空服員過世至今一個月了有關勞工請假這個不利的對待目前有沒有什麼進度"},{"start":16455.291,"end":16481.396,"text":"我們在禮拜一的時候也才找了包括勞資團體各方那也包括學者那來針對這部分有一個座談會來諮詢大家的意見好有進度都是最好的那我想不只航空業醫療產業也有相關的聲音我要求在這一次呢我們希望部長對於航空醫療相關工會的聲音啊要認真處理包括昨天你說的這個相關的一些溝通協調"},{"start":16482.576,"end":16503.87,"text":"禮拜一的時候包括航空業的工會包括醫療業的工會都有一起謝謝你謝謝我想也要再跟部長再次強調就是改革啊要避免流於形式避免讓這個勞工呢再次的有這樣子的一個相關的變相懲罰這部分我們會持續的追蹤第二個部長上個月月底啊"},{"start":16504.79,"end":16522.65,"text":"行政院通過了跨國勞動力的精進方案正式宣告服務業移工要開放那目前規劃是旅宿服務還有這個商港碼頭貨物卸裝集散的工作想請問一下為什麼初期只有這兩類為什麼其他類沒有"},{"start":16524.686,"end":16542.837,"text":"第一個因為當然各個行業別我們都在都需要評估也需要目的事業主管機關來提出那在上崗碼頭的確是我們看到上崗碼頭他其實他的缺工的問題很嚴重那尤其是"},{"start":16544.017,"end":16568.456,"text":"他的這個行業別裡面現在真的那個年紀都很大那他們甚至都跟我說他們其實已經要退休的勞工還要去想辦法去拜託他不要退休那真的年輕人比較不願意有這樣子的困境我都知道但是我現在要講的就是說三港碼頭那個部分那個沒有話說啦但是很多類型的也都一直在努力希望他們能夠爭取這個部分的開放當然"},{"start":16569.316,"end":16589.468,"text":"能不能全面開放當然不行我們一定要最審慎的評估我想這是勞動部的一個工作但是目前我想很多人也都會想說為什麼其他類不行所以我想加速的這個評估在沒有影響到國人的工作權的情況之下能夠有更多的好消息但今天我想跟你探討的是呂素月為主呂素月到底是缺工"},{"start":16590.712,"end":16610.172,"text":"還是缺便宜的勞工我想跟你分享一下我從111上面找到的幾個案件第一個我們看到部長麻煩你看一下曾飯店的工作公務人員喔他這個是公務修水電消防空調電信最好具備水電相關的證照那薪資是32000到36000"},{"start":16612.421,"end":16633.321,"text":"那真空調水電的工程維護技術員他不是房屋喔剛剛講的是公務不是房屋喔那現在的工程的技術人員啊飯店的建築物空調水電啊然後機電設施的維修啊各項設備的維護保養修繕水電拉線配管配電等施工工作定體檢查有沒有異常狀況33000到38000"},{"start":16636.852,"end":16659.415,"text":"還有安全部的工作人員顧公司的財產安全啊顧員工旅客安全啊要會消防設備跟監視器的一個狀況通報排除啊三萬二到三萬四所以我要跟部長分享部長你覺得有水電證照的飯店公務人員起碼要多少起薪你覺得才符合他這樣子的一個證照跟他相關的一個專業你覺得呢"},{"start":16660.682,"end":16680.023,"text":"我很難在這邊就講一個數字很難再講但是你看到剛剛那個數字你有沒有覺得好像偏低第一個當然我們會非常非常留意產業裡面行業裡面這個低薪的狀況所以這也是為什麼我們在這次的制度的設計裡面我們設計應該要先加薪必須加薪作為前"},{"start":16681.625,"end":16709.106,"text":"但是我要講就是說我知道你們的設計的初衷是利益良善但是我要講就是說你看他們現在加薪了2000剛剛說的33000有的是35000加薪2000我覺得在這個部分上實務上還是有一點差距所以我想勞動部做了哪些努力現在有沒有幫忙做一些媒合的狀況我想希望說在這個部分上工作的媒合就現在來看我們先不講移工開放"},{"start":16709.847,"end":16733.777,"text":"工作的媒合勞動部有沒有做當然有然後而且我們對呂樹業工作的媒合也是我們希望盡量來協助的但是我必須坦白講媒合應該是做的有做但沒有做到確實做到非常的落實甚至做得很好如果媒合不好的話是因為薪水差所以找不到人那開放移工以後呢飯店的薪資會不會就卡死在這個低價位"},{"start":16734.597,"end":16757.011,"text":"那麼正在找飯店從事類的工作的國人比如說公務 剛剛說的房務可能薪水會比剛剛舉例的兩間飯店高一點會不會移工一開放他們就沒工作了跟委員說明目前我們的確看到第一個飯店業確實相對在職缺調查裡面他們一個職缺能夠找到人的時間真的是比其他來的長而且長很多"},{"start":16758.192,"end":16781.987,"text":"所以的確他們缺工的狀況是比較嚴重的第二個是我們其實這次的設計裡面我們也有包括設計進去我們是用技術人力的方式來開放也就是用技術人力的方式來開放的時候他其實會要有他的薪資門檻的底線技術人力就是剛剛說的公務也是技術人力之一但是我說技術人力的部分是因為他不能夠用最低薪資來拼顧"},{"start":16784.008,"end":16805.411,"text":"所以這是為什麼我們要設用技術能力的角度來開放就是希望我們有一個薪資門檻的工具可以來做這個相關薪資上面的調教我要這樣講這個案例我希望只是個案不是通案那當然我們也不要拿這個單一事件來做整體的一個評估但我要講的是今天我們要如何保障國人的工作權"},{"start":16806.292,"end":16820.604,"text":"不只如此我們還有很多是以建教合作在飯店所謂假實習真打工轉個彎就進來了相關的勞動檢查有沒有進行違規的比例這部分可以跟我分享一下嗎"},{"start":16821.26,"end":16844.441,"text":"跟委員說明的確現在會有一些實習生尤其是外國的實習生目前是目的世界主管機關相關的要點所以我們其實現在也在跟交通部跟經濟部在討論針對這些這個外國學籍的實習生如果他的這個假設他的實際實際上他就是在進行工作的話怎麼把他的勞動條件應該盡量的保障給拉起來"},{"start":16844.921,"end":16855.311,"text":"目前我們也跟這些目的世界主管就要討論這個我想最後那個勞動檢查假實習真打工這部分這個檢查的一個進行狀態還有他的比例為何相關數據可不可以提供給我"},{"start":16857.933,"end":16877.303,"text":"其實他就我們的勞動檢查來說因為實習這件事情的主管坦白說是在教育部沒有錯但是你們勞動檢查的時候會抓到嗎但是如果是工作型實習的話當然我們認為我們就要比較一起來協助目的是主管機關來檢視他的工作的條件如果是工作型實習所以你們有勞動檢查嗎"},{"start":16878.303,"end":16904.353,"text":"那有勞動勞檢的時候一定有數據嘛數據可不可以回扣提供給我我們有跟教育部的聯合檢查好再麻煩數據給我謝謝那部長我也要這個在這邊再一次的跟你關心喔早產兒的一個照顧啊照顧的問題呢我過去就很關心這個輕職假然後在今年6月18的時候我有跟部長說早產兒的醫療照顧假部長五個月過去了你答應我會有收集早產兒罕病家庭的一個實際照顧需求請問嗎現在呢"},{"start":16907.352,"end":16934.441,"text":"早產兒的需求其實我們現在其實我們也做了這個育嬰留庭的彈性的措施現在可以以日來請休所以如果三歲以下的小孩的話這個我都知道他其實現在以日請休每個勞工可以有30天雙親加起來可以有60天但我要講的是說部長我有提出性別平等法工作的這個20條修正草案明定受僱者子女未滿6歲有早療或罕病的健康需求"},{"start":16935.501,"end":16955.275,"text":"能夠申請醫療照顧假全年以18日為限喔這不記錄家庭照顧假的天數喔部長當時你也有說回去會想一想喔那目前你有沒有什麼想法還是你就是覺得就以剛剛所說的留職停薪啊家庭照顧假來跟我說現在留職停薪如果可以以日來請求的話他其實已經相對但我要講的是說而且他還是有薪水的"},{"start":16955.655,"end":16984.33,"text":"我知道那第二個是說當然我們現在也是希望這個相關的制度上路可以有一個跟企業的調適期那未來是不是要擴大放寬我覺得當然這個我們也不我們可以開放的討論我想我們不是漫無目的的無止境的一直放寬一直放寬但是大家要知道部長我們生孩子真的是有這一個家庭照顧的需求可是現在問題是他是寒病兒他是早療需求他真的比較有困境"},{"start":16984.83,"end":17001.612,"text":"更為困境所以雖然育嬰留職停薪現在的改進喔以及家庭照顧假新資2025年1月1號開始上市放寬了一個申請的方式每日就是你說的好但是呢但是這些措施對於早產家庭我相信絕對不足一定不足"},{"start":17002.212,"end":17029.285,"text":"百分之百不足充其量整個勞動部的強調請假方式更具彈性但是以協助照顧臨時或短期需求我覺得部長對於早療或罕病的一個家庭獨立來設置所謂的醫療照顧假拜託你可不可以再給我更具體的一個研議我想這個研議可能我們要找衛福部來討論因為這涉及到可能特殊需求的小孩那他的實際的狀況"},{"start":17030.706,"end":17054.942,"text":"那衛福部這邊可能我們也聽一聽衛福部他們這部分的看法我最後30秒這些早產兒的家庭真的是不夠因為什麼他們的次數早療的時段是有限定的甚至有限定路程有的是跨縣市才能夠到那邊去做進行早療並不是早療的這個點很多但是衛福部的問題可是我要講是現況是這樣我們要怎麼去支持他們這部分拜託一下"},{"start":17058.957,"end":17087.117,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請林德烏委員林德烏委員 林德烏委員不在請鄭天才委員主席 各位委員 有請部長來 請部長部長好 辛苦了"},{"start":17089.719,"end":17116.145,"text":"這個原住民的就業這個我們一直希望能夠有更好但是以目前的狀況並沒有更好雖然我們的前任的總統蔡總統他的原住民族就業政策要保障上望新的工作機會但是很遺憾的我們的"},{"start":17117.441,"end":17140.827,"text":"原住民保障的就業的條文本來在一開始的時候就業服務法46條所授權訂定的外國人從事就業服務法第46條第一項第8款至第11款工作資格及審查標準這是民國93年1月13號訂定發布的這裡面特別"},{"start":17145.396,"end":17167.735,"text":"規定每禁用言住民一人 得申請引進外國人兩人這樣的一個條文在109年7月31號被刪除了所以這個保障條款就變沒有了"},{"start":17168.905,"end":17193.303,"text":"然後在111年4月29號就全文修正整個65條全文修正當然也沒有回復到我們的剛才講的被刪除的這個條文在這樣一個情況之下你看為了外勞現在為了外籍外勞不斷的修正這個"},{"start":17196.331,"end":17219.244,"text":"這個審查標準工作資格及審查標準已經修了23次我們不反對我們確實也需要但是原住民為什麼要被犧牲所以這個部分尤其是我們原住民族的就業狀況"},{"start":17220.836,"end":17247.487,"text":"我們主要是最高的最多的人數最多的比例最高的營建工程業百分之十八點五九這個比比例很高當然你勞動部一定很清楚現在進來的這些外勞營建工程非常最多然後我們"},{"start":17248.871,"end":17274.154,"text":"我們就業的比例從事的行業製造業14.03%這是第二高而製造業進來的也越來越多所以這個23次的資格及審查標準的修正影響的都是原住民的勞工而且是我們就業的比例"},{"start":17275.543,"end":17303.823,"text":"低高跟第二高的都受到很嚴重的影響接下來就是住宿及餐飲業這是我們的第三這是我們就業的第三現在也在受影響剛才羅廷偉委員講的這個跟教學教學跟這個就業合作的那個部分也影響到我們"},{"start":17305.134,"end":17326.197,"text":"所以這個部分要請部長要能夠重視怎麼樣去解決把我們的條款能不能再列回來跟委員說其實現在在救福法裡面第24條其實是有把原住民納入成我們的特定對象裡面的部長"},{"start":17327.566,"end":17351.489,"text":"就业服务法24条现在已经形同稀释因为根据24条根据24条才会有46条授权定定的一个保障条款现在没有了这个保障条款了 没了所以在这样一个情形之下我刚刚说了"},{"start":17352.926,"end":17361.982,"text":"現在外勞進來的營建工程業最多正好是我們就業比例最高的第二 製造業"},{"start":17363.769,"end":17381.421,"text":"外勞進來的很多我們都不反對外勞進來但是怎麼樣不要影響到我們的就業我們現在在原民會提供的這個失業率的數字上面其實的確沒有看到原住民族的失業率特別高他大概是3%左右"},{"start":17384.748,"end":17412.059,"text":"還是比一般的其實跟一般跟全體還是差不多的還是比一般的高大概就是在3%左右其實跟其他是差不多的這個部長不能因為這個數字不能因為這個數字就認為說沒有影響到事實上是有影響到在審查已經通過了立法院已經通過了在外國人外國人專業的那個那個辦法"},{"start":17413.14,"end":17436.035,"text":"外國專業人才禁用的那個辦法又擴大連副協士連副協士都算是一個專業人才外國專業人才副協士以前這個外國專業人才這個辦法副協士沒有列進去這是特別列進去我問教育部 問國發會他說因為勞動部支持"},{"start":17442.358,"end":17470.018,"text":"所以这个部分都是影响到这个部分当然我们台湾的就业的问题很多眼没有错但是不要牺牲原住民原来的我们不会去牺牲原住民就老公在老公就是有啊我才会如果没有的话就是我们的老公跟我反映了"},{"start":17471.294,"end":17485.443,"text":"老公 原住民的老公跟我反映了我才會去仔細的去看這些條文呢我才知道啊所以這個部分的部長如果你一開始現在我經過這樣的質詢之後這麼詳細的說明之後你都還認為沒有的話"},{"start":17492.067,"end":17517.023,"text":"這樣是不好的跟委員說我不是認為沒有你可以說你回去再去我們可以跟原民會再來了解他這個數字統計數字背後是不是有什麼地方應該要多做考慮然後在這個考慮下我們既有的機制跟既有的這個法條包括特定對象的部分我們怎麼來去協助我們很願意來去檢視這些事情對但我們會要去跟原民會一起來討論"},{"start":17518.424,"end":17543.184,"text":"那個部長現在不是嚴明會議是你們主動把這個我問過嚴明會當初你們是不是有同意把這個這個授權就業服務法46條所授權訂定的這個資格及審查標準他們說當初他們也反對啊但是就當然不是你部長認定了就這樣啊所以這個部分"},{"start":17545.748,"end":17567.708,"text":"我都不反對外勞進來我們是確實是需要但是不要把原住民的保障條款給刪除回去好好的去評估我們再思考一下能夠再把它回復我只有沒有別的要求只是要求把它回復而已好不好謝謝"},{"start":17572.24,"end":17579.024,"text":"好謝謝接下來請林思敏委員林思敏委員林思敏委員不在請吳麗華委員謝謝主席有請洪部長來請部長"},{"start":17603.263,"end":17617.65,"text":"部長好我們原住民立委都很關心我們原住民族勞工的職災狀況那特別是最嚴重的就是根據這個統計看起來呢是營造業再來就是製造業"},{"start":17618.87,"end":17645.47,"text":"那麼這幾個行業那它的一個實在在這麼多年的關注之下我們往往也發現其實它的件數不減反增啦所以我們也很想去了解說到底是要怎麼樣去做才有辦法有效的來改善這種情形那曾經監察院審計部有提過就是特別糾正勞動部他們的看法是說"},{"start":17646.391,"end":17671.044,"text":"我國的勞檢人力不足會導致勞工檢查過低那不足以有效的嚇阻雇主違法行為及提供安全的工作環境所以我想特別先請教一下部長針對這個前兩名就是營造業製造業我們原住民比較容易發生的一個職災類別那目前的勞檢覆蓋率大概是怎麼樣"},{"start":17671.792,"end":17699.518,"text":"跟委員說明其實勞檢的人力確實一直以來都相對比較辛苦的所以我們一直在跟行政院跟人總在爭取是不是能夠有更多的這個人力的名額但的確這裡面會涉及到這個整個員額編制上面的狀況所以在爭取上所以我們盡量希望能夠再多提高一些勞檢員他的勞動的條件或相關的這個家籍的部分來去協助"},{"start":17700.178,"end":17725.982,"text":"那目前的這個覆蓋率我請署長這邊來說署長請跟委員報告確實現在我們原住民的勞工朋友主要是在這個高風險的營造業跟製造業那也跟委員報告光營造業我們一年的勞檢的常識就相當於到11萬常識所以這個兩個行業一直是我們一個檢查重點"},{"start":17727.263,"end":17754.884,"text":"所以意思就是說在人力這些年持續不足的狀況下但是老減覆蓋率還是有在注意有在提升嗎那為什麼我這樣子問因為我們發現好像我們怎麼做都會就是道高一尺 謀高一丈我們往往發現這種層層轉包的這種方式其實我們在接受一些陳情案的時候也很困擾我們"},{"start":17756.466,"end":17772.843,"text":"因為有很多隱匿的狀況那舉個例子來講我們很多發生的狀況就是他如果受傷了在工地受傷了會發現說不准叫救護車因為他們都會知道說這樣子報公安報勞檢"},{"start":17774.545,"end":17791.808,"text":"可能就會被要求停工或怎麼樣所以他們就會有很多的方式去規避去隱匿那你覺得我們營建業 製造業有多少是因為這樣的原因被隱匿起來跟這個委員報告"},{"start":17793.447,"end":17812.958,"text":"基本上我們其實現在也在新的這個責任法的修正條文裡面其實規定如果你有你就是該通報不通報的狀況的話其實最高可以罰到450萬我就是知道說你們有在進行修法好那可不可以說明一下修法的方向目前就是把罰則部分會我們會把它給提高"},{"start":17814.295,"end":17839.995,"text":"然後包括營造業剛剛在委員在講的尤其是營造業的狀況的確我看到的情況是因為他的這個層層的分包讓他的責任很難追究所以這一次我們其實也在治安法的修法裡面明定了業主的責任也包括是在這層層轉包過程裡面要有一個包商責任的統合機制就是希望要避免說發生了職災其實照理來說"},{"start":17841.636,"end":17855.87,"text":"更該負責的是一開始的業主或上面的大包可是最後卻都轉嫁變成是最下的小包然後做那個最基層的包商在承擔這個責任那這個其實不符合我們在整個工地裡面運作的狀況的認知"},{"start":17857.362,"end":17878.059,"text":"部長我是很高興因為我們也關切很久也知道你們在進行修法那我剛剛聽起來一方面是罰金加重二方面是對於這種層層轉包責任全部都要分攤但是要整合或者是要整體的看待但是我現在的意思是說像這個狀況"},{"start":17879.6,"end":17896.779,"text":"我覺得也必須要去被了解被處理因為他就是怕被停工他就是怕被罰錢嘛所以他一定會有很多隱匿的狀況所以我的意思是說這個部分在修法的時候有沒有去考慮到"},{"start":17897.881,"end":17911.76,"text":"跟委員說明的確因為現在這個狀況其實不只發生在原住民的勞工其實整體在我們很多營造業都有我們執安法要修就是要這是一個破口漏洞那現在當然相關的通報或者是申訴其實"},{"start":17912.921,"end":17942.441,"text":"包括家属也都可以所以我们能够做的当然是要把假设有这样的状况他被抓到的嚇阻要提高这是把罚金给提高的状况但是他就更怕被讲他可能就会有其他后面的动作所以我觉得我们可以来思考怎么样让这个通报或者是来申诉的门槛可以再降低那最后就是我再请教我其实是这样子想有没有可能成立一个原住民的公安推动小组"},{"start":17943.541,"end":17971.34,"text":"部長您的看法如何我覺得如果原民會有這樣子的想法的話我們當然可以跟原民會來討論好那我希望進行討論但是這部分就原住民的情境原住民的特性當然原民會會比我們更加的清楚只是他在職場上面的狀況當然這部分我們能夠協助的我們願意來協助但是至少要有這個平台來開這個會如果原民會來跟我們討論的話我覺得我們可以來思考跟研議我也很感謝我有私下跟您提過就是救福法第12條"},{"start":17972.561,"end":17998.251,"text":"有說縣市人口達兩萬人以上可以來設立這個公立的原住民就業服務機構這是我五六年前一直不斷訴求那很謝謝後來勞動部呢就是由中央來協助買單所以呢目前有六個縣市有申請那你們提供設施設備房屋租金租車人事費及業務費好但是我盤了一下目前"},{"start":17999.011,"end":18023.604,"text":"我們勞動部協助的這些原住民的救福據點人力有28人那園民會呢他也用他的原住民的這些轉過來的貸金的這個就業基金他也做了各地方的一個救福辦公室目前人力有79名那我們原本是這樣想就是把整合或讓他1加1大於2但是我們發現說現在有個問題就是"},{"start":18027.466,"end":18049.122,"text":"有的縣市它會放在原民局處有的縣市它會放在勞工勞動的局處這個勞政單位的我們就發現很好為什麼因為他們可以撈到這些正式的資料放在原民會的他們是撈不到這些資料"},{"start":18050.202,"end":18066.666,"text":"那另外就是說放在園民會的呢就很困擾了因為他們會變成是園民會的救人帶這些新人所以他們在磨合的部分也要花很多的時間那我不曉得說勞動部這邊有沒有一個想法我們怎麼樣讓這個原本我們希望整合或1加1大於2的這樣的一個救福人力"},{"start":18078.328,"end":18084.387,"text":"能夠讓它發揮功效所以我是想說部長有沒有可能就是勞動部邀請原民會"},{"start":18085.68,"end":18114.91,"text":"能夠一同的來就這件事情好好的坐下來跟我說我是覺得我想我們跟地方政府在這部分合作我們不會我們主觀上不會想要去區分他是在哪個局處所以今天如果我們在資料上面資訊上面合作上面要借接的話我會請我們的同仁來擴大把各部會如果是放在原民局處的情況也納入然後也納入我們聯繫的對象好不好就不是因為的確勞動部過去在地方政府我這樣說好了"},{"start":18115.49,"end":18143.816,"text":"就是因為放的地方不一樣我們就會接到陳情所以我覺得是不是至少勞動部 園民會就是一同的來就這件事情聽聽這兩邊救撫員的聲音可以 我是這樣想我們勞動部當然可以找園民會甚至委員如果這邊要召開一些協調的話我覺得也是很好那跨部會來針對它放在地方政府不同的局處我想我們都應該擴大的把它給納入"},{"start":18144.696,"end":18157.648,"text":"在我們整個資源整合的過程裡面這樣子我們希望把這件事情把它成就起來啦好 不要為德不足啦 很可惜好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳委員 謝謝部長好 接下來請顏寬恆委員顏寬恆委員 顏寬恆委員不在請陳毅委員"},{"start":18174.807,"end":18195.393,"text":"好 麻煩請洪聖翰部長來 請部長部長都還沒有吃 你們都吃飽了很好 沒事 市長好好 村委員好部長好我想先請教你那個就是說我們一般整體的這個失業率跟原住民的失業率各是多少"},{"start":18196.653,"end":18221.36,"text":"目前應該都是3%出頭然後原民我剛看到是3.08我們在3出頭3.0幾是都一樣嗎兩個數字都一樣嗎很接近就原民會給我們原住民的原住民族的失業的數字所以這個部分是原民會做的不是你們去統計的是好那所以是你們委託原民會做"},{"start":18222.059,"end":18233.427,"text":"不是他們自己做的他們自己做所以你們做的失業率就不會再分不會再特別分族群去做研究是嗎他們數據3.43抱歉好那整體的呢"},{"start":18242.347,"end":18267.392,"text":"3.38我想是這樣因為今天前面有好幾位原住民的立委來為還關心原住民的這個就業的問題雖然這個沒有在我的質詢稿裡面但是就是說剛剛他們所提到的其實我很早以前我都有問過了但是我想我剛在這邊聽我想點出一些問題就是說"},{"start":18270.914,"end":18283.028,"text":"我們其實常常在在部落也好或者是在很多地方我們在跑原住民的這個行程的時候也很巧你說3.48的失業率是嗎"},{"start":18287.511,"end":18310.876,"text":"3.43的失业率那我们怎么走动好神奇哦就这3.43%的人我们走没几步就会遇到所以为什么刚刚有委员说你们不能光看你这个数字是不准那是因为我们出去走确实有遇到这样的现象所以我就要请教你了就是说"},{"start":18312.182,"end":18330.08,"text":"你們原住民失業率的這個到底就是說這個採樣是怎麼樣那你們說是原民會做的那我現在因為我不太清楚說做這個是原民會的工作還是你們的工作還是你們有講好說就是讓他們做還是你們覺得他們做了你們就不用做了"},{"start":18330.99,"end":18345.26,"text":"因為畢竟我認為勞動部在做這些研究或許是比較專業的我想委員針對你剛才講的這個現象我覺得我們可以來跟原民會來討論就是說到底了解一下他的調查方法如何對你們要"},{"start":18346.422,"end":18361.122,"text":"了解一下它的那個樣本對 更好的調查方法那大家在不同的調查方法上面就是說不同的調查單位其實能夠去做對接在方法上面比較奇異比較能也能夠去做可行性的比較那我是不是也建議你們也做一下"},{"start":18362.123,"end":18386.742,"text":"因为其实在做这个失业率的统计当然有很多的技巧我相信劳动部的各位应该都比我还熟起码看你们是直化还是量化或者两个并行怎么样做比较准这个还牵扯到这个区域的问题因为我们原乡跟都会区的原住民的工作形态差距是非常大的"},{"start":18387.723,"end":18402.615,"text":"所以這個部分因為我這樣聽起來我認為部長對於原住民的這個整個生活型態並不是很了解我們也可以體諒但是不能一直包容下去因為您坐這個位置原住民的勞工"},{"start":18403.195,"end":18429.053,"text":"好跟跟這個其他勞工朋友本國的勞工朋友外籍的勞工朋友都一樣都是勞工也都是勞動部需要關心的對象那所以這個部分我本期建議就是說勞動部你們可以也邀集好先討論一下就是說看要你們自己研究所要做還是你們委外給哪個單位做但是要做之前"},{"start":18430.214,"end":18436.041,"text":"我覺得你們要去找就是說對於原住民整個生活型態很了解的因為畢竟過去"},{"start":18437.973,"end":18463.105,"text":"我曾經聽到在這個公部門有人很得意的講這個不小心讓我聽到就是說因為我們要降低這個數據我們就其實就有很多這個臨時的工作跑出來當這個臨時的工作跑出來的時候你當然在做說他這個失業率在做的時候當然跟當然"},{"start":18464.306,"end":18483.813,"text":"到底說他是誤差還是他是技巧性的美化這個我們就不知道了啊好部長你覺得這個部份我們統一處這邊來說明一下報告委員是這樣子就是我們國家的那個政府統計他是你可以大聲一點我們國家的"},{"start":18485.427,"end":18502.245,"text":"我們國家的政府統計它是依據主席總署的各部會統計範圍劃分方案來分工的這個原因是因為你分什麼工分工 譬如說哪個統計是哪個部會負責"},{"start":18505.769,"end":18520.295,"text":"那因為各部會的這個職權多少有點重複的地方譬如說好沒關係我了解你要講什麼我想如果是如果是已經有這個分工所以你這個分工確定是"},{"start":18521.115,"end":18536.833,"text":"那個原住民的失業率是由原民會來做是嗎好那這個部分本席在這裡要求那你們是不是可以討論一下就是說也理解了解一下那提供你們平常在做那個失業率的部分好怎麼樣做然後也跟原住民的部分"},{"start":18537.293,"end":18562.893,"text":"就是說大家做一下意見交流我覺得在做之前我們這樣好不好我們來跟原住民原民會討論一下他們做的方法上面有沒有什麼地方可以我們有提供建議的地方我們會來找他們因為以前你們勞動部應該是自己也有做過你可以去了解一下看看我印象中是這樣子另外就是說我要講的是"},{"start":18564.761,"end":18581.209,"text":"再來就是說大家如果不是在數據上琢磨的話那我認為就是說剛剛前面委員提到的在這個營造業特別蓋房子這個部分"},{"start":18583.453,"end":18596.218,"text":"其實不談先不談這個失業率我們談的是說在我們現在的這個逃逸的外籍勞工人數已經邁入"},{"start":18599.139,"end":18626.812,"text":"10万9万也快10万了多少9万4很快可能你再过一两个礼拜搞不好就变10万了所以这个部分你们导师可以好好的去了解一下因为这个部分影响的是我们原来从事这些营造业的我们原住民的朋友的日薪他们的收入"},{"start":18628.066,"end":18652.987,"text":"因為就請這個逃逸的就比較便宜啊那當然大家都會去請那我們也遇到就是說之前有原住民的朋友拿不到工資的來跟我們懲請我們有協助去溝通那拿到以後他生氣不聘請這個正常的原住民的這個老公朋友現在就轉而去聘請這些逃逸的"},{"start":18654.298,"end":18671.645,"text":"所以你們應該也要我要在這邊也要請你們再做一個研究跟評估就是這個逃逸的這個外籍勞工對營造業的勞工的就業影響以及這個衝擊評估好特別是原住民的部分"},{"start":18673.598,"end":18702.939,"text":"我們綜合的來思考一下好了這部分對不是我不曉得你的思考是什麼就是我們來看一下你要思考什麼我請你做這個評估你要思考什麼就是可以跟不可以我們來看一下這個評估現在有沒有一些資料可以來提供我們請我們研究所來看一下對有嗎現在有嗎現在沒有嗎就請你們做啊對如果他說沒有能做嗎如果沒有的話我們就來進行吧對好這部分也請你們一併就做一下"},{"start":18705.083,"end":18732.465,"text":"好那大概我想就针对原住民的部分大概是这样那我最后提一下比较具体一点的在我也想同步了解一下就是这个缺工缺工因为那个目前目前统计出来就是那个旅宿业流动率就特别高嘛我们在这个表上面很清楚"},{"start":18733.53,"end":18743.878,"text":"平均就花了花了大概三個月好的招募然後也很難找到人所以我想從這個表"},{"start":18745.952,"end":18769.85,"text":"我們今天都脫稿來質詢那這個部分我們就是因為我觀察到的在台東那個勞動部去辦理這個就是說就業的這些這些媒合那是就是等於大雜燴各類型的全部都在一起"},{"start":18771.348,"end":18799.93,"text":"也很好也认真但是呢我们有没有考虑过就是说我们在未来是不是就是说分类更集中比如说我今天我针对的是这个吕树叶的我们就今天就来一个好来一个吕树叶很集中有之前做过我不知道因为我在台东我是没有看到我刚好可能没看到之前针对吕树叶我们其实有进专案媒合但有媒合到我们那里去吗"},{"start":18802.562,"end":18830.305,"text":"那個不要緊我是說建議我不是說只有鋁樹葉啦我說未來你們就是說整體綜合的那是不是未來有幾項抽出來我們也就是分類型去辦理我在這裡我沒有沒有責備的意思啦我是說我們可以好調整一下那我也想了解就是說因為我去台東我有去參加那個就是那個中高齡的"},{"start":18831.426,"end":18850.736,"text":"那個就業的你們有一個就業的那個中心開幕我有去那這半年就是台東縣銀髮人才服務據點的這個部分可能已經經過6個月了我想了解一下這6個月你們的成效怎麼樣"},{"start":18852.484,"end":18878.217,"text":"大概我想大概是这样所以我们一周内把相关的资料送到委员办公室好不好你们在会后再麻烦一下那因为刚刚就是有那个刚刚也有原住民的立委特别有提到就是说好像我们常在做那个就业的那个训练啊职训都是固定的好像都只有那几种类型而且不是很高阶的"},{"start":18879.057,"end":18899.743,"text":"我要在這裡點出一個問題啦因為我知道你們資訊有時候也是委外那在我們台東確實有一些有奇特的現象長期以來呢可能就是單一的協會在辦理那這個單一協會的辦理就很容易他就是會有集中在幾項的這個"},{"start":18902.945,"end":18918.771,"text":"我們的這個執訓的部分那除了表面上是這樣那實質上有沒有其他的目的我覺得你們應該也要關心一下我今天在這裡我就不要講的太明講出來就傷感情了我想這個部分未來"},{"start":18920.051,"end":18934.078,"text":"就是說我們在這個執訓的委外單位的這個訓練跟培養其實也可以更多元好大機會可以給更多的人去參與好 以上謝謝好 謝謝接下來請葉原職委員來做詢問"},{"start":18952.931,"end":18968.326,"text":"主席好 今天部長沒關係反正不想要叫你 但既然你上來就問一下就看你啊部長好我想我只有接到一個陳情他是這樣子就是他的爸爸是89歲"},{"start":18970.248,"end":18992.846,"text":"然後在一兩年前當時他的外籍看護啊就是被發現居然對他的爸爸強插鼻胃管然後後來他們發現之後覺得非常不可思議因為他爸爸當時在八九歲嘛抗拒但是力氣沒有看護這麼大啦看護就一直一直要幫他插進去啊然後家人看到之後都非常心痛"},{"start":18993.747,"end":19022.368,"text":"那這個事情當然對家屬而言他沒有辦法接受所以後來就要申請廢紙聘僱那這件事情後來事發之後九天這個看護就跑掉了跑掉那本來應該是遇到這個狀況應該是有兩種一種是廢聘要求他直接遣返是有這種機制然後另外但是廢聘廢聘遣返是不是空窗期會等比較久他的看護空窗期會比較久嗎"},{"start":19023.592,"end":19036.634,"text":"一個月吧一個月那廢聘轉出的話空窗期會比較短嗎如果部長不了解的話可以請那個相關單位回答"},{"start":19038.328,"end":19054.474,"text":"如果是經過外國人有違規廢聘的話雇主是可以立即遞補那如果是雙方合意解約的話那超過一個月以上也可以遞補所以就變成說雙方要第一個要合意如果沒辦法合意的話就會拖非常久嘛"},{"start":19055.274,"end":19080.953,"text":"然後第二個不是如果是外國人違規不可歸咎於雇主的話其實可以直接就轉換可以直接就遞補問題是你認定你要由誰來認定是不是要經過一定的認定程序地方政府會來認定所以他就是第一個就是認定的時間然後第二個就是雙方要提出很多對自己比較有利的證據那有的時候可能也沒有辦法馬上有答案我現在"},{"start":19081.773,"end":19096.268,"text":"所以家屬就覺得說而且這個案子比較特殊的是後來那個看護跑掉以後他提出廢聘程序的過程當中他要一直幫這個看護付就業安定費還有保費然後"},{"start":19098.328,"end":19116.714,"text":"看護也請律師所以雙方就進入到這種比如說法律的程序廢聘之後不用付專費程序上在申請的程序過程但廢聘之後就不用了對 不用但是過程拖比較久因為看護也有找律師所以要拖比較久"},{"start":19117.93,"end":19139.999,"text":"我現在的問題是這樣第一就是我覺得事後我把這個案子就轉交給勞動部先去了解一下那僱主是覺得說第一他覺得這個看護沒有辦法得到應有的處分因為強插鼻胃管這個事情應該有違法吧"},{"start":19140.899,"end":19156.11,"text":"可是到目前為止都沒有認定他有違法的狀況然後僱主認為說這個事情應該不是一般的勞資糾紛他有牽涉到虐待老人的問題那我們現在勞動部好像相關的法令都比較偏向外籍看護"},{"start":19157.111,"end":19172.891,"text":"所以其實這衍生出來的問題是其實我們有很多不只是這位長者啦可能有一些生長者 重度生長者他也會面臨到外籍看護虐待的問題但有沒有一個機制是能夠保護雇主的"},{"start":19173.191,"end":19201.667,"text":"就是說譬如說可以立刻讓僱主可以讓他廢聘速度快一點而且在廢聘的申請過程當中可以不用再去繳什麼就業安定費然後或者是保費然後讓他可以在那個空窗期是可以越短越好的因為很多僱主會擔心的是我現在去申請這個廢聘的程序我不知道下一個看護什麼時候會來那中間就會衍生出空窗期的問題我覺得這個是很多僱主會擔心的部分"},{"start":19203.072,"end":19228.747,"text":"那個根本說沒有如果這個外籍勘案有違規的狀況當然這可以用透過1955來做透過1955來做申訴那如果需要調查的話當然也可以請地方政府來做查查這部分是這樣那第二個是當然如果這個當然廢聘期間可能要確認廢聘了以後才能不繳就安定費啦不然這過程會很難認定這樣子"},{"start":19231.448,"end":19260.704,"text":"再一个事情说如果有空窗期的话当然现在其实也是可以用短照或者是传息的资源来去协助那这个短照跟传息的资源目前就我们知道卫福部这边其实也有做相关政府有相关的补助跟补贴对那有关于就是很多雇主认为说像虐待老人或者是看护可能虐待这种认定好像都轻轻放过把它当做是一般的劳资纠纷那这个有什么救济管道吗"},{"start":19262.255,"end":19271.471,"text":"這個可能會要是請地方政府然後社政單位來做這個相關的認定但我覺得有牽涉到全國的一致性這有牽涉到全國一致性"},{"start":19272.61,"end":19293.975,"text":"對 但是我就說執行這件事情當然是地方政府要執行那當然運用的法規就是說是不是有虐待的法規這個是老扶法嘛對不對是老扶法要來做認定對 就是從老扶法來去做是否有虐待或者是這個很不OK的對待的狀況會是由老扶法來做判定"},{"start":19294.451,"end":19310.787,"text":"好OK我希望勞動部可以可以關心一下啦這些可能有遭受到虐待或者是不當對待的這些僱主啦他們的一些權利跟他們心聲啦那這個應該是不牽涉到地方啦希望勞動部可以關心一下這個因為我剛講那個案例在"},{"start":19311.528,"end":19333.569,"text":"在一些外籍看护的雇主的群组其实是大家我们有了解到对对对当然新生是大家是蛮有共鸣的所以希望劳动部可以了解然后再一点时间上次有问部长说研究一下因为既然我们就医院安定精精啊钱那么多都可以拍影片那是不是可以让一些中度或重度失能以上的雇主"},{"start":19334.301,"end":19362.807,"text":"就是说他是要请外籍看护来照顾他家人这些雇主可以免缴救援安定费这个上次好像部长说要研议跟委员说明接下来在救援费的使用上面我们很明确做了判定只要是不相干的业务的话就不能够使用救援费这本来就应该这样所以我们其实在今年已经做了更严格的规定所以过去的某些使用也许会有一些大家因为我下面要去扯那个那些事情对所以我还是要先说因为委员刚才前面先讲了这个部分第二个是说"},{"start":19363.727,"end":19383.92,"text":"针对救安费比方说比较特殊的状况的救安费那是不是要减收或者是什么状况当然我觉得我们这部分是可以来研议的有啦上一次来咨询就说要研议因为又过一个月了啦赶快上次有答应要给我们那个报告时间快到了提醒你一下因为我知道你们做了严格规范代表说"},{"start":19384.961,"end":19405.173,"text":"花的會比較少嘛因為之前就是太多了太多他就亂花嘛那你現在嚴格規範代表就是很多錢會省下來嘛啊這個錢既然省下來基金也沒有要用到的話不如就讓那些中重度失能家庭可以勉強嘛就回饋給弱勢啦我們綜合的來對評估一下對好好謝謝好謝謝接下來請張雅玲委員來做詢問"},{"start":19421.469,"end":19440.544,"text":"謝謝主席我們邀請洪部長部長好我想請教一下你覺得你的工作跟你們勞動部的工作跟生育率提升有沒有關係我覺得現在各部會的工作都跟生育率有關係"},{"start":19441.69,"end":19460.548,"text":"好 那我跟你分享一份研究报告它其实已经不是新的研究报告了但是最近这位郑彦新研究员中研院的研究员他在8月5号的时候在中研院的学术讲堂再次针对如何理解台湾的低生育率现象的时候呢"},{"start":19461.992,"end":19481.203,"text":"進行演講然後這副影片呢哇迴響非常大有超過一萬人來觀看這個這副這個影片喔所以我想這個影片的主題大家非常有共鳴那我簡單跟部長講一下又看過你看過了是不是好那總結了三個重點嘛對不對那部長他講了三個重點"},{"start":19482.504,"end":19505.389,"text":"為什麼大家不結婚的主因就是婚姻跟生育的概念問題第二個年輕世代不結婚的主因就是因為工時很長沒有對象然後呢還有這個經濟門檻比較高那第三個是這個那我想我們今天就先針對於第二個年輕世代不結婚的主因來跟部長做個討論那我想這個工時很長不僅是影響到大家可能"},{"start":19506.85,"end":19530.488,"text":"應該我簡單講一下他講就是說他的研究是說如果你有生如果你有結婚那其實蠻高的比例都會生小孩這是他裡面的一個重點那但是呢所以要如何讓年輕人結婚那就是非常重要的一件事情可是呢現在年輕人就因為工時太長了他其實沒有時間去做社交那其實也就很難產生到接下來我們要結婚生小孩這個部分所以呢我想跟部長來討論就是說因為這個"},{"start":19533.31,"end":19560.121,"text":"工時很長不僅只是影響到生育率還有家長之間的教養關係以及我們的這個孩子的學習時數也是很有關係所以我想跟部長來討論一下就是您現在有沒有跟我們其他的部會一起來討論來解決這個工時過長的問題例如就是說可能像是交友與生活空間改善的一個策略跟內政部來做個討論"},{"start":19562.591,"end":19591.457,"text":"跟 內政部為什麼是跟內政部對啊 因為交友與生活空間的改善因為內政部是人口的部分嘛因為通常公職問題大家都會是指責勞動部公職但也有你的部分等一下下題就是你的我們是沒有跟內政部直接討論說這個休閒的空間的問題啦這個休閒空間生活空間跟交友空間的部分"},{"start":19592.057,"end":19607.241,"text":"我們應該是沒有跟內政部針對這個主題來進行討論這樣子但是整體在少子化精英政策裡面我們當然是這裡面我們當然也很願意在我們業務業館的業務下面來協助那工時的部分的確"},{"start":19609.762,"end":19632.765,"text":"我們其實也很希望就是說比方說我們在相關的政策上這也是為什麼我們希望能夠逐年的來提高最低工資就是希望把因為過去會有一些勞工他因為他的薪資比較低所以他必須透過一直加班來增加薪水所以我們希望把這些比較低薪的勞工的他的這個最低的地板的薪資地板的狀況盡量往上拉也希望能夠減少大家"},{"start":19633.706,"end":19648.572,"text":"加班的機會可是加班與否的問題的確會跟整個台灣的經濟情境的景氣也會有關係所以裡面聯動的因素也會蠻多的對 那我想問一下就是說因為其實 幫我下頁好了"},{"start":19649.605,"end":19666.816,"text":"因為其實我們在看113年的勞工生活及就業狀況調查裡面也有提到就是不改變目前的一個工作時數的狀況之下因為剛剛聽起來解決工時的要處理的問題還蠻複雜跟經濟有非常關係非常多關係那勞工其實就有提到如果每週工作"},{"start":19667.757,"end":19684.779,"text":"有46.5%的人希望可以採彈性工時的一個工作方式那我想這其實也是一個目前可以解決在不影響工時的狀況整體工時的狀況的一個方法那可是呢我也有看到很多的家長他們在網路也有提到說"},{"start":19685.8,"end":19701.534,"text":"他也很希望可以有彈性工時讓他可以去接送小孩那之前我們現在已經做到這個育嬰明年要開始嘛育嬰彈性的這個部分那接下來我就想要請教我們是不是可以針對這個地方提供給不管是家長也好或是年輕的工作者也好有更多的一個彈性呢"},{"start":19703.373,"end":19715.829,"text":"跟文報告其實現在我們的確看到現在很多勞工他對於職場的彈性的需求或對這個需求的表達的程度比以往來的更高那"},{"start":19718.052,"end":19743.232,"text":"甚至也不只只有年輕的勞工這樣表達但是的確年輕的勞工表達需要這樣彈性的比例或者強烈的程度也是比較高這也是為什麼我們在設計我們給青壯世代包括我們讓這個家庭照顧價可以更彈性以小時來請 嬰嬰留庭可以以日來請的重要的原因那我們其實就目前我們政策上面我們有一些"},{"start":19744.293,"end":19758.647,"text":"補助那如果尤其是有些婦女他如果二度就業他需要有更彈性的彈性工時的話來去協調相關上下班時間的部分的話其實我們有給雇主相對應的補助其實也有但都是圍繞著怎麼讓職場更彈性的這個主題"},{"start":19761.594,"end":19782.61,"text":"對 但是我想也可能不是二度就業啦應該是所有的不管是現在的上班族可能特別是針對於家長他們都有強烈的表達他們非常期待有這樣子的一個需求那雖然說性工法提供了這樣子的一個規定可是事實上實務上到底有多少的企業提供了這樣子的一個服務跟一個支持我不曉得勞動部這邊有統計嗎因為我們是沒有找到相關的資料"},{"start":19783.393,"end":19809.714,"text":"我們可能相關的統計我們還要再來看一下有沒有這樣相關的數字那我想一下我想確認一下就是說如果我們這邊目前沒有相關的數字我們是不是可以進行相關的調查了解到底實務上面到底有多少企業可以做到這件事情我是覺得這個主題是蠻值得來了解一下的對可以嗎好那這個如果大概什麼時候可以告訴我們有相關的資料如果有的話這個調查可能會需要的時間會長一點我覺得可能要半年喔"},{"start":19810.083,"end":19823,"text":"沒有啦 你們如果現在手邊有資料的話給你們多少時間找一下我們可能沒有非常嚴謹的調查的資料對 我們如果有資料我們到委員辦公室這邊來跟委員討論好 沒關係"},{"start":19825.243,"end":19840.328,"text":"那如果沒有的話我就希望我們至少在半年之內我們可以了解一下到底食物上面有多少的企業可以提供這樣子的支持那我們才能夠知道說是不是接下來我們下一步可以怎麼做那在下一個部分想要延續一樣再往下"},{"start":19841.929,"end":19857.338,"text":"延續一下我想部長最近也應該有看到韓國的生育率微幅的上漲對不對這個大家也重新的去看了一下他們提供了非常非常多的一個支持那我今天先簡單講一個重點就好了因為時間也有限那就是我講一個重點就是說在"},{"start":19858.058,"end":19882.064,"text":"在韓國生育率的微幅上漲其實他有三個重點那我自己特別覺得很關鍵的一個是2025年起政府強制要求上司公司揭露托兒與育嬰相關的統計資料並且對中小企業提供財政的補助然後也計劃在育兒支援工作家庭平衡和住房補貼上投入了19.7兆的一個韓元較2024年成長了22%"},{"start":19884.644,"end":19904.571,"text":"所以我覺得這個上市公司或者是中小企業我們如何鼓勵他們更積極的去鼓勵他們其實也是一個非常關鍵的事情所以我也想要了解說在這個部分上面這是先提但我先講但是待會兒這是其中一個問題所以等我講完第二個問題的時候部長再一起回答"},{"start":19905.151,"end":19920.547,"text":"所以我們到底有沒有什麼樣子更積極的做法鼓勵大家可以提供更友善育兒的環境第二個部分就是說他們在2026年要即將推動一個政策這個政策是針對育兒期的勞工小學生的家長他10點以後才要去上班"},{"start":19922.268,"end":19935.2,"text":"也就是說他每天可以少一個小時的工作時間來協助勞工育兒那目前他們其實是已經在光州事辦過成效不錯那我也想了解說我們有沒有考慮往這個方向來去效法呢"},{"start":19936.974,"end":19961.439,"text":"委員兩個部分來回答第一個事情是針對企業托育的部分我們正請我們的業務單位在研擬一個希望能夠鼓勵加碼的計劃不管是它的設施比較是在它硬體的設施上或者是在軟體的上面我們也希望有一個擴大的計劃目前我們在研議中"},{"start":19962.079,"end":19981.258,"text":"那大概什么时候我们会知道比较详细的内容呢可能可能年底吧年底是吗应该会跟之前稍微更精进吧因为我想之前过去就能提供托育啦托育的空间这些东西那应该还要再加嘛在软体的部分对我们也认为因为过去我看幕僚很用力的点头因为"},{"start":19981.898,"end":20010.041,"text":"過去在硬體的部分很多還是會回復說受限空間嘛空間還是一個限制的條件所以我們希望在軟體的部分能夠更多的幫助這樣子這是第一個那第二個當然我們有看到韓國的這個做法其實在新聞上面有看到但實際上面我們當然也可以再了解他們實施這個做法以後遇到的問題當然我覺得現在因為台灣的少子化的問題其實相對應的職場制度的調整我覺得各國的做法都應該納為我們參考的對象"},{"start":20011.242,"end":20039.243,"text":"我想这个部分的话就请部长持续的来去了解因为他们就是在光州实施之后效果很不错所以他们才会在2026年全韩国一起试用那这在网路上面许多的家长的回馈台湾家长的回馈都觉得非常的羡慕所以我希望就是说因为刚刚部长有讲嘛步步其实都跟生育率非常有关系那所以也希望劳动部针对这一点也可以持续的再跟进来提供一个更友善的一个工作环境来给我们的家长这样子"},{"start":20039.443,"end":20058.779,"text":"是 怎麼讓這個職場對於家庭的照顧有些對小孩的照顧更有效我想我們近期真的很多相關的業務主管單位都為這個事情花了蠻多的心力在研擬都希望能夠突破一些過去的框架好 那我們就相關的這些資料我們就後續來跟勞動部追 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":20062.81,"end":20074.605,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請農民財委員 農民財委員不在請翁曉琳委員 翁曉琳委員不在請林柱英委員 林柱英委員不在"},{"start":20076.258,"end":20099.619,"text":"本次會議詢答全部結束委員楊耀 林德虎 翁曉玲所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報 現在作為以下決定第一 報告其詢答完畢第二 委員質詢為其答覆或請補充資料者請相關期慣例兩週內以書面答覆委員另有要求其限則從其所定本次會議到此結束 現在散會"}]}},{"id":"165333","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165333","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe303926a495f10f708b62a46119727b9b988d062fb7dbff77c10a5482d5f91316a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"09:57:25 - 10:10:02","影片長度":"00:12:37","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:57:25+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:10:02+08:00","duration":757,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.17346875,"end":9.447218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.610968750000001,"end":15.235343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.640343750000003,"end":56.275343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.96721875,"end":61.236593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.742843750000006,"end":64.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.69596875,"end":64.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.72971875,"end":101.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.82534375,"end":103.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.79971875000001,"end":124.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.75846875,"end":139.43534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.73909375,"end":145.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.99971875,"end":164.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.20346875,"end":166.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.80659375000002,"end":169.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.46471875,"end":168.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.64159375,"end":173.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.06284375,"end":182.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.72409375,"end":181.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.33159375000002,"end":207.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.62721875000003,"end":211.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.06534375,"end":221.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.26784375000003,"end":212.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.08909375000002,"end":238.39034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.87971875000002,"end":241.44471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.95096875000002,"end":248.54909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.00471875000002,"end":251.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.90721875000003,"end":252.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.95784375000002,"end":252.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.31221875000003,"end":270.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.43409375000002,"end":255.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.17971875,"end":263.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.92534375,"end":271.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.68471875,"end":273.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.71846875,"end":275.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.59971875,"end":277.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.01284375,"end":280.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.15159375,"end":283.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.46346875,"end":285.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.37034375,"end":288.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.84284375000004,"end":286.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.20096875,"end":291.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.00659375000004,"end":292.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.05284375,"end":293.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.14971875000003,"end":300.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.45659375,"end":301.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.46471875000003,"end":303.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.30846875000003,"end":305.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.35034375000004,"end":312.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.97784375000003,"end":317.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.55971875,"end":338.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.53534375000004,"end":337.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.17221875,"end":345.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.23034375000003,"end":344.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.25971875000005,"end":361.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.44034375,"end":350.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.61284375,"end":353.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.64659375,"end":353.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.95346875,"end":361.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.57784375,"end":365.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.04596875000004,"end":421.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.43346875000003,"end":425.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.97346875000005,"end":422.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.44596875,"end":423.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.20096875,"end":424.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.29784375,"end":469.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.79721875,"end":470.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.20596875,"end":475.09596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.04534375000003,"end":476.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.90159375,"end":479.73659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.27284375000005,"end":482.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.84596875000005,"end":485.60909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.69784375,"end":487.71846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.76471875000004,"end":492.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.45596875,"end":494.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.99159375000005,"end":499.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.10971875,"end":495.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.92784375,"end":498.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.83034375000005,"end":502.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.95659375,"end":506.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.04909375000005,"end":505.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.12909375000004,"end":506.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.16284375000004,"end":506.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.27659375,"end":507.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.06971875000005,"end":508.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.94721875000005,"end":525.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.0034687500001,"end":527.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.05409375,"end":530.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.4753437500001,"end":531.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.11221875,"end":537.5672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.9722187500001,"end":543.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.9965937500001,"end":589.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.0359687499999,"end":592.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.1115937500001,"end":591.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.9340937500001,"end":597.1359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.7309687500001,"end":597.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.24971875,"end":604.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.8984687500001,"end":606.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.09221875,"end":645.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.4953437500001,"end":619.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.18596875,"end":628.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.15784375,"end":654.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.2240937500001,"end":660.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.29971875,"end":656.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.11346875,"end":710.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.83971875,"end":715.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.10909375,"end":741.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.8997187500001,"end":732.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":740.53971875,"end":741.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.03284375,"end":748.7409687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.706,"end":9.609,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請部長有請洪部長部長早部長早 部長我要先跟你討論有關於這個冷氣安裝植栽的這個問題我不曉得你自己有沒有看到光是今年下半年已經連續發生四起這個工人因為安裝冷氣然後墜落死亡的案件"},{"start":33.887,"end":60.37,"text":"這個如果跟過去相較起來這個頻率算是增加的很多因為如果從2020年累積到現在是有17件 17人死亡但是光今年的下半年就短短的有4件我不知道你們有沒有去分析為什麼今年下半年這麼密集有這麼多起的因為冷氣安裝而死亡是 我們有觀察到這個事情那至於相關的分析的原因我請我們署長來"},{"start":61.789,"end":86.488,"text":"你們有一個一個個案去分析嗎 是什麼原因跟委員報告 其實冷氣安裝的部分最主要是這個墜落的一個災害那它主要的問題是發生在現在的大概安裝在舊有的建築物就現行的建築物的部分在當時規劃設計的時候沒有考慮到說它的安裝的一個路徑這部分就能源必須要到這個所謂建築物外"},{"start":87.148,"end":102.655,"text":"那這個部分雖然我們過去已經辦了幾乎每一年都要辦這個宣導會或是講習那看起來是現在這些安裝的這些員工他不曉得說正確如何去防護自己是年輕的師傅嗎還是有經驗"},{"start":103.876,"end":113.109,"text":"都有 那我們現在解決方式是說希望藉助這個他們的製造商跟通路商還有相關在實際從事這個電器安裝的這些職業工會我們一起來討論怎麼樣來訂定一個"},{"start":120.078,"end":136.775,"text":"一步一步的做這個安全的一個步驟的一個作為指引現在有關於冷氣裝修安全作業有訂指引的新北桃園他們其實有訂喔但是現在中央其實是沒有一套指引但是光訂指引他其實有一個問題他沒有強制力"},{"start":139.818,"end":169.05,"text":"那如果說高空作業安全現在已經爆發這麼多例了那你應該只是一個指引嗎還是應該是訂定標準因為事實上這個2023年立法院的法治局其實就有提出這個報告那針對這一點現在如果你們訂的還是指引的話他會有的問題就是缺乏強制力他只是一個guideline不是一個原則"},{"start":169.71,"end":187.219,"text":"各位說明的確因為這樣子的安裝冷氣墜落的事件其實他跟我們很多的事業單位他有一個比較明確的現場不太一樣所以其實在執行上面的確現在我們看到很多工協會跟我們反映的事情是"},{"start":187.839,"end":205.884,"text":"其實相關的法規不是沒有不是沒有但是他們現在很欠缺的事情是他們想知道怎麼樣子去執行這件事情在工程上面的做法在安裝上面的做法他們現在很欠缺這件事情所以我們也因為這樣我們也看到這個趨勢所以我們預計會在今年底來提出指引那應該是19號對不對"},{"start":207.925,"end":232.082,"text":"11月19号我们就会找相关的工协会一起来讨论你们应该是标准不要再是指引因为你们自己的那个议题研析里面其中有一个探讨研析我们找到资料就是这上面的他已经明确指出来了应该要研议定定具强制力的作业标准加以规范确保冷气安装作业的安全"},{"start":232.742,"end":250.448,"text":"所以不再是指引 而且之前立法院法治局也希望你們訂定的是標準所以我覺得這一個部分不要輕忽我希望這一個勞動部 既然你們要訂我就往標準的方向去訂定 這是你們自己的研議出來的結論"},{"start":252.469,"end":272.778,"text":"跟我們說明我們會在年底的時候我們會提出一套整體的這個職業安全跟職災的減災的計劃我們去預計年底那這部分其實我們也把它放在我們整體的減災計劃其中部分因為我們的確看到這些安裝家庭的設備那你們標準什麼時候要訂定"},{"start":275.649,"end":300.758,"text":"我們年底會來訂定相關其實其實我們的指引並不是單純他不就是這個指引其實他是有一定的有一定的規範效力的對有嗎有違反違反會有罰則嗎指引有罰則嗎有強制力嗎在法規上不是指引實際上就是法規規定裡面的怎麼樣做去符合法規嘛裡面按照指引做還是會扣合回來再跟法規你們有開罰過嗎"},{"start":303.069,"end":329.986,"text":"如果按照這樣表示你們有開罰過跟委員報告其實現在會定這個再定一步操作是因為他的作業實際上是一般的勞檢是在民宅上一般是很難去找到說他在屋頂或在哪裡所以你的法規就應該要再更嚴格一點讓他們就是必須按照你的標準來走我覺得就是反向思考就是因為你沒有辦法去勞檢所以你更需仰賴一個比較有強制力的"},{"start":330.506,"end":350.226,"text":"法規來要求不管你是任何的人你到家裡去安裝這個也是保護他是保護我們工人的安全跟文說明第一個事情我們在這個議題上面會非常非常需要跟相關的工協會合作這是第一個第二件事情我們當然可以來評估怎麼把這個強制性提高的做法"},{"start":350.486,"end":365.163,"text":"就像把強制性提高的做法我們可以評估但的確就像剛剛大家也講到的確實在這樣子的案場裡面勞檢員要直接到現場是比較困難的檢察員到現場是比較困難的到現場他可能已經走了"},{"start":365.583,"end":380.051,"text":"要強化你的SOP還有你的法令嘛另外一個我希望要求的是我現在已經看到在實務上面因為有一些老師傅就是慢慢退但是新的人進來他不見得那麼的閒熟所以在實務現場其實有這種跟不上的那針對這種高風險行業又跟不上青黃不接的我覺得你們的這一個相關的職業訓練就應該要去強化配合工協會他們怎麼樣去吸引就是有這樣專業的人進來"},{"start":393.038,"end":421.312,"text":"要不然我很怕我不知道這四例有哪幾例是比較生熟的如果是生熟的更會有這樣的問題他對於各方面風險的預判他經驗不足如果又沒有一個比較明確的標準跟作業跟這個企業主這邊願意去協助他就是說一個好的職業完整的職業訓練再讓他從事這樣的工作我覺得這個可能都還會再出現所以我希望這個漏洞從訓練強化的角度你們也應該要去強化好不好"},{"start":421.912,"end":442.103,"text":"好 當然 我們這個可以跟公協會來合作 包括相關的課程接下來我要問的是有關於外籍移工權益的問題因為前陣子有這個勞團到勞動部去抗議那他其中一個議題就是提到說這一個因為這家公司呢 因為他的員工外籍移工只要懷孕 然後就被遣返"},{"start":442.603,"end":469.869,"text":"那這個議題已經不是新議題了2018年到2021年監察院當時就已經糾正過就是說當時的懷孕終止契約離境大概有8000多人解約比例6乘6那現在呢勞團又再度指出這樣一個問題我要問這個部長的是那現在呢今年以來有多少的外籍移工因為懷孕提前終止契約離境人數有多少這個我們"},{"start":473.257,"end":499.606,"text":"我們可能要再統計一下再提供你們平常都不掌握的喔這個數據 這個也是大議題啊這個數據老闆已經去你們部裡抗議了你們這一題還沒有準備這個數據可能我們會再要再要再那1995接收到多少這樣的一個投訴就是這些數據我們我們下禮拜前提供下禮拜你們平常都沒有在做統計喔怎麼可以不統計呢這個也是一個重要的議題啊我們會來統計啦"},{"start":503.004,"end":525.621,"text":"那什麼時候要給本席什麼時候數字可以出來應該下週下週好這個要給本席我希望這個部長你要注意喔這一個是涉及到已經是違反我們現行的這個法令喔但是實務上還是持續這樣子做這個應該要去檢討喔不應該再存在這樣的一個現象有數字了是不是我們我們還那個數字並不是完整的數字好"},{"start":533.191,"end":549.719,"text":"希望你們多重視這個議題如果在委員會上回答不出來表示不夠重視接下來就是有關於這個我們的企業是不是有涉及到強迫外籍移工勞動的問題我想之前的巨大的這個案件讓大家看到"},{"start":550.679,"end":569.584,"text":"對企業的影響坦白講也是損失重大因為美方他是採取這個直接查扣貨品的方式喔那到目前為止你作為勞動部部長我們有解了嗎這一個部分應該要怎麼樣去解號因為現在被點名的還有17家的企業"},{"start":570.184,"end":588.693,"text":"那會不會都遭遇到同樣的一個狀況我們要怎麼樣事先去預防就是避免這個企業有強迫勞動的情況怎麼去輔導要求他們改善要不然這個其實都是我們台灣的經濟損失也很大勞工的權益也受損這是雙輸的局面"},{"start":589.133,"end":606.104,"text":"跟我們說我們會有幾個做法同時在進行第一個部分其實我們現在已經在研議相關的行動指引那這行動指引預計什麼時候出來我想應該也許明年年初或者是1月左右可以出來1月1月可以出來"},{"start":607.148,"end":626.353,"text":"我們的行動的指引目前正在研議中當然這部分我們也在跟經濟部這邊在做相關的會頭那我們也會跟經濟部這邊來研議其實一個對企業的輔導計畫這是第一點第二點是我們其實現在也同時在針對我們的法規的機制在進行盤點的檢討"},{"start":628.934,"end":645.246,"text":"那我们也希望在这个辅导的过程里面一步一步也了解我们企业目前的状况然后跟目前尤其尤其是跟目前国际的要求之间的落差的情况这部分没做第三点很重要是我们其实现在其实也希望能够扩大"},{"start":647.529,"end":664.39,"text":"國對國執聘的量能因為尤其是在仲介費相關的議題上面我知道擴大執聘這個我們都非常讚但只是你們現在一直都這個量能一直都是無法放大所以我們其實現在也很重要是我們現在也在跟包括跟企業界"},{"start":665.171,"end":686.651,"text":"包括跟來源的母國我們都會針對擴大職聘這邊來簽訂更進一步的MOU或者是希望讓更多的企業可以了解職聘也是他們可以選擇的一個做法因為的確現在國際的要求是認為這個企業如果讓移工來負擔仲介費的話就會陷入這個強迫勞動的疑慮"},{"start":688.633,"end":710.126,"text":"所以要避免這個疑慮的話就變成企業可能未來在這些聘僱過程裡面需要更多的承擔那如果企業願意選擇直聘的話這部分也是可以降低他的成本跟支出的做法所以這幾個方面都是我們現在在因應強迫勞動的議題國際上面非常關注強迫勞動議題的時候我們其實很明確的因應的做法那我最近其實也跟很多的企業在做相關的座談"},{"start":710.899,"end":716.782,"text":"好我希望這個指引你要盡快穿剛說是醫院嗎因為這件事情我認為對台灣整體是有傷害的有對於勞動人權我們形象的傷害有對於我們實質經濟出口的一個傷害所以這件事情因為你又是主責的部長我希望"},{"start":730.089,"end":747.945,"text":"你這邊要多花一點心力我們希望我們跟外籍移工都是雙贏不要演變成現在這個企業遭受損失然後勞權又受到傷害雙數的局面好不好謝謝好謝謝王玉明委員發言那接下來請廖偉祥委員發言"}]}},{"id":"165331","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165331","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe34a2d5df0754bcde6b62a46119727b9b988d062fb7dbff77c3cf91e161b04d6245ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"13:48:29 - 13:56:14","影片長度":"00:07:45","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T13:48:29+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T13:56:14+08:00","duration":465,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.629093750000001,"end":15.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.78909375,"end":8.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.76784375,"end":10.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.434093750000002,"end":12.704093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.78784375,"end":25.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.80471875,"end":17.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.17034375,"end":32.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.03846875,"end":35.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.77221875,"end":44.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.665343750000005,"end":49.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.710968750000006,"end":57.017843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.422843750000006,"end":59.633468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.00471875,"end":72.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.14659375000001,"end":70.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.21409375,"end":70.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.31909375000001,"end":75.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.03159375,"end":78.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.25909375,"end":80.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.69346875000001,"end":81.31784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.81159375,"end":81.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.62159375,"end":84.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.38846875,"end":92.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.32846875,"end":100.50471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.64471875000001,"end":95.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.99409375,"end":106.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.62659375000001,"end":103.84596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.59659375000001,"end":107.05221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.63034375000001,"end":110.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.89971875,"end":110.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.15284375,"end":112.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.03034375,"end":120.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.27846875,"end":117.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.18534375,"end":119.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.02909375,"end":120.06284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.06284375000001,"end":120.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.38346875,"end":124.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.82159375,"end":125.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.64846875,"end":146.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.21471875,"end":152.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.31909375,"end":161.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.19971875000002,"end":173.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.31721875000002,"end":166.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.33409375000002,"end":166.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.09346875,"end":167.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.80971875,"end":176.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.57721875000001,"end":183.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.05284375000002,"end":189.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.77346875,"end":196.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.87784375,"end":224.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.89034375000003,"end":231.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.91034375,"end":233.88471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.28971875000002,"end":258.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.42096875000004,"end":258.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.06221875,"end":265.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.08659375,"end":266.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.11596875000004,"end":267.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.43221875,"end":267.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.76971875000004,"end":270.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.14909375,"end":270.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.19971875000005,"end":279.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.06409375000004,"end":274.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.54409375,"end":303.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.39284375,"end":303.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.05096875000004,"end":316.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.98971875,"end":323.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.38596875,"end":321.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.57534375,"end":324.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.57096875,"end":324.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.62159375000005,"end":327.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.65534375000004,"end":326.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.14846875,"end":332.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.40096875,"end":339.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.28596875,"end":350.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.47409375,"end":388.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.31221875,"end":360.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.16721875,"end":371.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.41971875,"end":375.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.03971875,"end":376.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.38784375,"end":389.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.11346875000004,"end":397.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.20096875,"end":397.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.70721875000004,"end":398.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.61846875000003,"end":428.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.09409375,"end":407.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.66346875000005,"end":407.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.64159375,"end":415.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.68971875000005,"end":440.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.84971875,"end":430.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.14909375,"end":432.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.42284375,"end":437.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.89034375000006,"end":459.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.92596875000004,"end":458.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.58346875,"end":461.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.81909375000004,"end":466.96221875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.975,"end":24.388,"text":"主席好 見到部長沒關係反正不想要叫你 但既然你上來就問一下那個部長部長好我想我只有接到一個陳情他是這樣子就是他的爸爸是89歲"},{"start":26.289,"end":48.879,"text":"然後在一兩年前當時他的外籍看護啊就是被發現居然對他的爸爸強插鼻胃管然後後來他們發現之後覺得非常不可思議因為他爸爸當時在八九歲嘛抗拒但是力氣沒有看護這麼大啦看護就一直一直要幫他插進去啊然後家人看到之後都非常心痛"},{"start":49.779,"end":78.386,"text":"那這個事情當然對家屬而言他沒有辦法接受所以後來就要申請那個廢止聘僱那這件事情後來事發之後九天這個看護就跑掉了跑掉那本來應該是遇到這個狀況應該是有兩種嘛一種是廢聘要求他直接遣返嘛是有這種機制然後另外但是廢聘廢聘遣返是不是空窗期會等比較久他的看護空窗期會比較久嗎"},{"start":79.633,"end":92.675,"text":"一個月吧一個月那廢聘轉出的話空窗期會比較短嗎如果部長不了解的話可以請那個相關單位回答"},{"start":94.386,"end":110.512,"text":"如果是經過外國人有違規廢聘的話雇主是可以立即遞補那如果是雙方合意解約的話那超過一個月以上也可以遞補所以就變成說雙方要第一個要合意如果沒辦法合意的話就會拖非常久嘛"},{"start":111.332,"end":136.988,"text":"然後第二個不是如果是外國人違規不可歸咎於雇主的話其實可以直接就轉換可以直接就遞補問題是你認定你要由誰來認定是不是要經過一定的認定程序地方政府會來認定所以他就是第一個就是認定的時間然後第二個就是雙方要提出很多對自己比較有利的證據那有的時候可能也沒有辦法馬上有答案我現在"},{"start":137.808,"end":152.326,"text":"所以家屬就覺得說而且這個案子比較特殊的是後來那個看護跑掉以後他提出廢聘程序的過程當中他要一直幫這個看護付就業安定費還有保費然後"},{"start":154.369,"end":172.971,"text":"看護呢也請律師也請律師所以雙方就進入到這種比如說法律的程序廢聘之後不用付專費啊程序上在申請的程序過程但廢聘之後就不用了對對對不用但是他過程拖比較久因為因為這個那個看護也有找律師啦所以要拖比較久啊"},{"start":173.991,"end":194.922,"text":"我現在的問題是這樣第一就是我覺得事後我把這個案子就轉交給勞動部先去了解一下那僱主是覺得說第一他覺得這個看護沒有辦法得到應有的處分因為強插鼻胃管這個事情應該有違法吧"},{"start":196.946,"end":212.152,"text":"可是到目前為止都沒有認定他有違法的狀況然後僱主認為說這個事情應該不是一般的勞資糾紛他有牽涉到虐待老人的問題那我們現在勞動部好像相關的法令都比較偏向外籍看護"},{"start":213.152,"end":228.952,"text":"所以其實這衍生出來的問題是其實我們有很多不只是這位長者啦可能有一些生長者 重度生長者他也會面臨到外籍看護虐待的問題但有沒有一個機制是能夠保護雇主的"},{"start":229.252,"end":257.706,"text":"就是譬如說可以立刻讓僱主可以讓他廢聘速度快一點而且在廢聘的申請過程當中可以不用再去繳什麼就業安定費然後或者是保費然後讓他可以在那個空窗期是可以越短越好的因為很多僱主會擔心的是我現在去申請這個廢聘的程序我不知道下一個看護什麼時候會來那中間就會衍生出空窗期的問題我覺得這個是很多僱主會擔心的部分"},{"start":259.113,"end":284.788,"text":"那個根文說明如果這個外籍勘案有違規的狀況當然這可以用透過1955來做怎麼部長講話大聲透過1955來做申訴那如果需要調查的話當然也可以請地方政府來做查查這部分是這樣那第二個是當然如果這個當然廢聘期間可能要確認廢聘了以後才能不繳就安定費啦不然這過程會很難認定這樣子"},{"start":287.509,"end":316.745,"text":"再一个事情说如果有空窗期的话当然现在其实也是可以用短照或者是传息的资源来去协助那这个短照跟传息的资源目前就我们知道卫福部这边其实也有做相关政府有相关的补助跟补贴对那有关于就是很多雇主认为说像虐待老人或者是看护可能虐待这种认定好像都轻轻放过把它当做是一般的劳资纠纷那这个有什么救济管道吗"},{"start":318.296,"end":327.531,"text":"這個可能會要是請地方政府都是請地方政府社政單位來做這個相關的認定但我覺得有牽涉到全國的一致性這有牽涉到全國一致性"},{"start":328.672,"end":350.033,"text":"但是我就說執行這件事情當然是地方政府要執行那當然運用的法規就是說是不是有虐待的法規這個是老扶法嘛對不對是老扶法要來做認定就是從老扶法來去做是否有虐待或者是這個很不OK的對待的狀況會由老扶法來做判定"},{"start":350.489,"end":366.825,"text":"好OK我就是我希望勞動部可以可以關心一下啦這些可能有遭受到虐待或者是不當對待的這些僱主啦他們的一些權利跟他們心聲啦那這個應該是不牽涉到地方啦好希望勞動部可以關心一下這因為我剛講那個案例在"},{"start":367.566,"end":388.429,"text":"在一些外籍看護的僱主的群組其實是大家我們有瞭解大家的心聲是大家是蠻有共鳴的所以希望勞動部可以瞭解然後再一點時間上次有問部長說研究一下因為既然我們就業安定金金啊錢那麼多都可以拍影片那是不是可以讓一些中度或重度失能以上的僱主"},{"start":390.342,"end":418.708,"text":"就是說他是要請外籍看護來照顧他家人這些僱主可以免繳救援安定費這個上次好像部長說要研議啦跟委員說明齁接下來在救援費的使用上面我們很明確做了範定只要是不相干的的業務的話就不能夠使用救援費所以我們其實在今年已經做了更嚴格的規定所以這當然過去的某些使用也許會有一些因為我下面要去扯那個那些事情對那所以我還是要先說因為委員剛剛前面先講了這個部分嘛第二個是說"},{"start":420.469,"end":439.718,"text":"呃針對救安費比方說比較特殊的狀況的救安費那是不是要減收或者是什麼狀況當然我覺得我們這部分是可以來研議的有啦上一次來質詢你就說要研議因為又過一個月了啦趕快上次有答應要給我們那個報告時間快到了提醒你一下因為因為我知道你們做了嚴格規範代表說"},{"start":440.999,"end":459.344,"text":"花的會比較少嗎因為之前就是太多太多他就亂花嗎那你現在嚴格規範代表就是很多錢會省下來嗎啊這個錢既然省下來基金也沒有要用到的話不如就讓那些中重度失能家庭可以免繳嗎就回饋給弱勢啊我們綜合的來評估一下對好好謝謝好謝謝接下來請張雅玲為人來做"}]}},{"id":"165330","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165330","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3935d4859536943088abc180ec3481d0285b487800f276530f9d55d8724b67ac15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"12:12:11 - 12:24:47","影片長度":"00:12:36","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T12:12:11+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:24:47+08:00","duration":756,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.6040937500000005,"end":6.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.202843750000001,"end":7.9790937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.219093750000003,"end":11.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.332843750000002,"end":13.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.239718750000002,"end":14.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.353468750000001,"end":29.039093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.410343750000003,"end":55.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.25409375,"end":76.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.81221875,"end":92.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.82846875,"end":81.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.96159375,"end":161.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.65971875,"end":162.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.82409375,"end":164.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.55784375000002,"end":166.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.97534375,"end":172.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.32471875000002,"end":178.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.56846875000002,"end":181.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.90971875000002,"end":188.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.94659375,"end":197.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.25346875000002,"end":200.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.11784375000002,"end":206.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.92284375000003,"end":210.58034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.01909375000002,"end":215.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.72721875000002,"end":228.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.10909375000003,"end":236.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.09534375,"end":240.09471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.80346875,"end":241.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.17471875,"end":241.51221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.95096875000002,"end":289.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.16284375000004,"end":306.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.53159375,"end":313.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.75409375000004,"end":316.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.61034375,"end":321.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.04409375,"end":323.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.90034375000005,"end":325.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.43159375000005,"end":325.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.49909375000004,"end":325.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.76909375,"end":331.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.18221875,"end":330.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.16909375,"end":334.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.85221875,"end":340.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.43346875000003,"end":342.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.93096875000003,"end":355.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.32971875000004,"end":363.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.36221875,"end":378.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.69784375,"end":380.20784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.92096875000004,"end":380.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.49471875,"end":381.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.03034375000004,"end":387.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.97034375000004,"end":392.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.10471875,"end":407.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.15284375000005,"end":415.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.94909375000003,"end":474.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.16346875000005,"end":477.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.88034375,"end":479.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.70284375000006,"end":482.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.08221875000004,"end":484.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.13659375000003,"end":486.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.66346875000005,"end":504.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.94784375000006,"end":511.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.32221875,"end":531.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.2178437499999,"end":534.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.3059687500001,"end":537.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.61346875,"end":548.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.26159375,"end":572.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.4978437500001,"end":549.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.0290937500001,"end":552.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.4109687499999,"end":565.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.8359687500001,"end":574.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.5065937500001,"end":576.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.5147187499999,"end":582.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.83096875,"end":577.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.8647187500001,"end":577.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.99471875,"end":583.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.8047187500001,"end":600.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.57409375,"end":629.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.1728437500001,"end":637.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.1297187499999,"end":655.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.6372187500001,"end":657.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.97034375,"end":663.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.21846875,"end":666.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.7453437500001,"end":670.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.8797187499999,"end":674.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.4697187500001,"end":681.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.7178437500002,"end":685.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.86534375,"end":682.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.52721875,"end":712.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.37096875,"end":714.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.5690937500001,"end":714.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.8390937500001,"end":715.9865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.9990937500002,"end":718.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.90596875,"end":728.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.2165937500001,"end":738.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":738.4640937500001,"end":739.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.83096875,"end":748.9265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.39909375,"end":750.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.7153437500001,"end":751.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.6940937500001,"end":752.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":752.48721875,"end":753.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.05659375,"end":755.59221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.859,"end":28.385,"text":"謝謝主席 請鄭次長鄭次長請委員好次長好次長您覺得對於各單項協會的改革到目前為止有沒有什麼成效您覺得我們的民眾對於單項協會的看法態度評價有沒有提升或者說您覺得說"},{"start":31.606,"end":55.202,"text":"單項協會他長期仰賴政府資源的這個狀況有沒有改善單項協會我們他仰賴我們政府資源的挹注我們補助他我們協助他說我們有監督他的這個責任但是不能讓他們一直靠著政府的資源他們應該要有一個機制來做他們單項協會的自主運作那到目前為止次長您覺得說這個相關的改革到現在有什麼成效"},{"start":57.301,"end":76.377,"text":"報告委員這個其實層面非常廣不過我們陸陸續續也是在協會這邊我們給選手更多的支持那也督促協會的行政這塊能夠盡可能的環善特別是在跟選手間的溝通方面希望能夠放下身段來做好的溝通這部分其實是目前有在改善"},{"start":76.857,"end":91.189,"text":"因为我们有一些讲补助我们有一些补助给大象协会所以我们我刚刚讲我们有监督的责任我们对于选手的权益选手的相关我们都要非常非常的注重但是现在"},{"start":93.05,"end":95.573,"text":"我們都知道說單項協會的辦公室就設在運動部的體育大樓裡面那基本上在裡面設置的單項協會包括中華奧會體育總局單項協會總共有56個團體在我們的運動大樓"},{"start":110.151,"end":133.508,"text":"那他們所使用的空間將近1300坪比我們自己運動部的同仁可以使用的空間還要大還要多所以我們新設單位像全民運動署國家運動產業發展中心產業及科技司還有資訊處就必須要另外花費工廠到外面去租用空間來辦公"},{"start":135.129,"end":163.902,"text":"那我們現在跟單項協會雖然是有收租金的但是是根據體育聯合辦公大樓的這個管理要點是民國95年的基準所以換算下來各單項協會我們收他的租金一坪換算下來是800元那停車費更便宜租金是1000元但是我們自己的單位我們去外面租呢換算下來一個單位一坪要3000多元所以次長你覺得這是合理的嗎"},{"start":165.712,"end":188.394,"text":"報委員 這個在規劃運動部成立的時候其實那個階段我們都有討論過那因為這個大樓之前其實是早年政府蓋給這些單單協會跟總會那後來我們在外面的體育委會被監察院糾正才要求體育委會搬進來到體育大樓所以我們算是有點像是外來者"},{"start":189.062,"end":213.942,"text":"那当然我们现在为了解决这个问题我们想在外面去寻找一个真正运动部的永久的地址这才是能够研究解决那本席刚才提到了关于这个收费的这个标准这个部分我们目前的确有在做后续会做检讨那这部分是不是容许给我们一点时间因为我看了一下你们明年度的预算书你们这个租金收入是1700万但是我们付出去的租金会到2940万"},{"start":215.819,"end":239.904,"text":"所以这个根本是一个很不合理的现象啊然后当然说如果他们是先到的他们先来这边我们之前也答应他们就是提供这个空间给他们那在租金的这个部分是不是应该要做调整那个租金到明年底这个部分我带回去是不是我们部里面来做一个演绎看看要怎么来那你一个月之内给我一份相关的你们调整的这个方案可以吗"},{"start":240.848,"end":256.679,"text":"可以好那接下來我再請教一下次長針對考選部表示將要針對體育行政人員靠高考的這個課目進行調整要將運動社會學跟體育行政與管理兩科來兩個考科要合併"},{"start":257.66,"end":278.605,"text":"那运动社会学其实会涉及到探讨运动跟社会文化政治经济性别阶级及媒体等等面向这个互动的核心学科不仅是有助于理解运动的政策形成检讨还有进行的这个社会基础也更能够提供制度改革跟公共治理的这个方面分析的视野"},{"start":279.085,"end":306.204,"text":"那现在把两个考科合并也引起相关的这个领域学者的担忧我想请教次长我们运动部在考选部做这个决定你们有受到征询针对这两个合并应该是没有征询我们运动部但是我们知道考选部的本意是希望将考试的时间可能从三天缩短到一天半吸引更多的年轻的学子来报考公职人员"},{"start":306.604,"end":324.8,"text":"考试时间简短但是它相关的这个科目它的分数占比一样啊所以它要准备的功课是一样的是所以包围员这部分我们再来如果考选部来问我们的意见我们再跟他讨论好不好那所以那运动部你们的看法次长你自己看法目前我没有看法因为这部分"},{"start":325.501,"end":342.227,"text":"没有看法因为考选部还没有来问我们那事实上我们现在只有看到两个学者在网路上我问你的时候你现在你想你的看法包委我觉得运动社会学如果担任过一个首长的话在运动社会学其实是一个大帽子所以我们做的像体育政策"},{"start":342.987,"end":363.552,"text":"它整個是運動對整個社會的衝擊影響它算是很大的一個帽子那底下很多的手段包括你的自然科學這些生理 力學還有你的行政管理等等都是執行面它這兩個面向的確不太一樣但是我想學者我本身也是學者出來我想他們擔心的是說這個部分會不會因此"},{"start":364.612,"end":393.24,"text":"讓他們的這個考試在這個領域能夠就萎縮掉了我想這個擔憂是情有可原所以這部分我想還是要請考選部召集我們運動部跟這幾個學科領域的資深教授來討論考試是一個甄選的方法是但是本身這個考科有沒有影響到考生他要去準備的時候他的想法跟他本身對這個學科他的理解度跟他所包圍我舉個例子"},{"start":393.86,"end":415.427,"text":"我本來是物理治療的背景我們有一個物理治療評估學評估學裡面就包含骨科、神經、小兒跟心肺哪一個不重要都很重要但是它就並在同一科來考所以我意思是說這個部分的確學生在準備本來就很困難我還是希望考選部能夠找這幾個領域的資深學者一起來坐下來好好談"},{"start":415.967,"end":440.988,"text":"因为考选部的说法说最快明年的高考就会施行了但是如果说这样子合并起来是不是会影响到体育行政人员他在执行业务产出这个政策相关的专业度会不会有影响所以我也希望说当征询到你们的时候你们的立场跟你们的态度因为全民运动署现在也成立了我觉得很多民众对我们运动部对全民运动署是有非常大的期待"},{"start":441.348,"end":458.449,"text":"那这些相关的政策都涉及到不同层面及群众我希望说运动部是很谨慎的来面对思考这件事情好那我们再回到单项协会关于再要跟您讨论是关于主协的问题根据审计部的这个查核资料报告来看呢"},{"start":458.789,"end":484.416,"text":"本期針對足協在112年申請轉播費的狀況來跟次長您做討論五項的補助計畫有五項都超支其中2024年世界盃資格賽第一輪的部分超支率是來到200%那簽合的是體育署想請問一下次長您覺得這樣合理嗎我覺得不合理不過超支的部分有他們自籌你也覺得不合理但是你們還是簽給他但是還是請他自籌"},{"start":488.857,"end":510.778,"text":"體育署的這個審查機制如果說在當體育署的在試體育署的時候是不是很符合這個標準的話目前我們是運動部了那我們相關的審核機制會不會精進會 我們從這一次的經驗我們內部其實有去做討論我想這部分我們未來的把關會比較嚴格"},{"start":512.383,"end":532.988,"text":"我想問一下之前的這個我剛剛提到了關於說他們所申請的這個補助費啊這個轉播費他們原來的預算數是50萬但是呢超支了嘛那每一個都超支是之前他們所估算的金額就是錯誤的或者說是因為只要他報上來我們就給他"},{"start":535.336,"end":547.315,"text":"包委員說實在轉播這件事情跟轉播台數跟他整個品質跟各家報價這個不是我的專業但是我們還是會希望他能夠提出合理的說明不然我們這邊把關其實"},{"start":549.315,"end":570.837,"text":"因為審計部也已經在114年的3月12就有發函請你們要檢討改善關於這個部分他說體育署未要求逐協申請計劃補助要強烈經費編列的基準及估算的方式你們也沒有這個審核機制未經嚴謹這個部分我想你們都知道這個"},{"start":573.019,"end":599.251,"text":"給你們的訊息我只是想知道說報委員我們在114年開始我們就限制他的轉播數轉播的那個經費最高只能報50萬好那再來我想請教次長喔您有一個受訪的時候你們的回答你的回答是很耐人尋味您說當了署長的時候呢叫我們的委員會的委員很特別要你大力支持竹協讓協會的財務趕快解決你才會鼓勵竹協辦活動"},{"start":600.672,"end":629.754,"text":"但是我们希望你支持足协主要也是基于说足协能够正常的运作才能维护我们所有选手的权益但是这个部分呢足协在办活动呢他不仅说相关的刚刚提到的经费超支场地也搞不定也牺牲到球员的权益所以这个部分我希望说再来我们在升格之后呢我们相关的机制有精进呢那省纪部所指出这些要改善的部分呢你们不会再犯这样的错误"},{"start":631.303,"end":653.068,"text":"這部分我們從審計的報告我們有學到很多的經驗這部分我們會嚴格來做檢討好 謝謝次長您的承諾那再請教竹賢現在正面臨的人事的震盪李市長他要辭職然後被未留但是李市長他的辭役是很堅定那想請教說竹賢現在會不會啟動這個補任的事宜"},{"start":658.12,"end":670.007,"text":"我目前只知道主席的理事長已經堅決辭職也離開了那按照他們的章程45天之內要補選那這部分我再請經濟事這邊再來輔導他們那這個補任期間的相關協會的事務會不會順利 會不會停擺"},{"start":675.506,"end":691.36,"text":"目前他們應該是用副理事長來代理不過這部分我還是請經濟師這邊趕快讓他們選出一個因為關心運動關心賽事的民眾都很擔心如果足協是停擺的會不會又影響到選手的權益所以我在這邊要要求運動部你們應該要守護選手的權益"},{"start":694.102,"end":715.028,"text":"那希望接下來如果說主協這個整個的補任事宜沒有很順暢的話但是相關的賽事我們還是要讓他後面的這個運行是順暢的主協這邊負責報名但是相關的主訓後勤上的運動部跟國訓是不是可以接手是不是可以協助包委我們會協助"},{"start":717.025,"end":742.975,"text":"因為希望說運動部這邊一定要負責能夠對選手的權益有照顧到因為再來比較重要的賽事是明年3月有個女主亞洲盃所以相關的我們這個球隊我們的相關的選手的主訓應該是現在就已經開始安排了那這個部分請我們運動部這邊要負責這個你們要有負起這個監督的責任"},{"start":745.916,"end":752.889,"text":"不要再讓我們相關的選手有權益受到影響這部分你能承諾嗎包委員可以好 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝陳秀寶委員"}]}},{"id":"165329","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165329","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3f0f947ffe3e9453eb62a46119727b9b985b487800f276530d53b19a6b4a7811c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"13:35:36 - 13:48:22","影片長度":"00:12:46","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T13:35:36+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T13:48:22+08:00","duration":766,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.79846875,"end":4.384718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.82346875,"end":5.6334687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.83159375,"end":8.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.14346875,"end":10.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.864718750000002,"end":11.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.657843750000001,"end":12.484718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.00346875,"end":14.560343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.661593750000002,"end":14.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.67846875,"end":23.622218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.617843750000002,"end":28.684718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.02659375,"end":29.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.12346875,"end":29.359718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.102218750000002,"end":30.355343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.249718750000003,"end":33.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.62909375,"end":36.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.94096875,"end":36.767843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.93659375,"end":38.033468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.35846875,"end":42.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.34096875,"end":46.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.159093750000004,"end":44.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.85096875,"end":46.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.42034375,"end":46.791593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.02784375,"end":49.609718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.065343750000004,"end":51.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.22971875,"end":55.634093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.10659375,"end":59.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.44346875,"end":61.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.31659375,"end":64.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.32471875,"end":65.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.39159375,"end":69.30284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.43784375,"end":96.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.34909375000001,"end":98.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.76659375000001,"end":104.31846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.79096875,"end":110.39346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.68034375,"end":113.58284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.40971875000001,"end":115.06784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.06784375000001,"end":116.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.04221875,"end":118.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.89846875,"end":139.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.16096875,"end":147.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.09659375,"end":147.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.45096875000002,"end":158.31846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.94284375,"end":164.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.14034375,"end":169.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.50221875,"end":172.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.88159375,"end":173.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.42159375,"end":175.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.99534375000002,"end":178.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.90221875,"end":177.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.40409375000002,"end":188.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.39846875,"end":189.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.95909375000002,"end":215.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.61596875,"end":199.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.54159375,"end":221.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.51096875000002,"end":231.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.21409375000002,"end":257.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.16784375000003,"end":264.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.77846875,"end":267.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.10721875,"end":274.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.99221875,"end":289.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.12909375000004,"end":291.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.22159375,"end":297.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.89159375,"end":299.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.35971875,"end":300.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.56221875,"end":302.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.57846875,"end":306.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.12221875,"end":310.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.83909375,"end":310.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.17659375,"end":310.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.36221875,"end":310.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.42971875,"end":310.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.71659375,"end":311.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.38284375,"end":324.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":324.23346875000004,"end":332.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.22034375000004,"end":327.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":332.23221875,"end":339.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.65721875,"end":368.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.53471875,"end":367.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.68221875,"end":377.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.69346875,"end":381.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.91221875,"end":382.31721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.73909375000005,"end":385.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.26596875,"end":386.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.27846875,"end":391.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.71221875000003,"end":394.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.87221875,"end":399.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.40721875,"end":407.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":408.52409375,"end":409.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.97534375000004,"end":410.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.17784375,"end":412.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.79346875000005,"end":413.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.00846875,"end":414.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.17284375,"end":418.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.98659375000005,"end":421.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.10846875000004,"end":425.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.91784375000003,"end":427.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.93471875,"end":428.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":427.99784375,"end":430.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.09034375000005,"end":430.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.18721875,"end":431.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.69346875,"end":432.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.40221875000003,"end":438.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.73034375000003,"end":440.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.78909375,"end":446.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.91471875,"end":450.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.11659375000005,"end":455.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.04409375,"end":456.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.76971875000004,"end":462.05159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.18659375000004,"end":481.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.25096875,"end":499.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.58971875000003,"end":504.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.49221875,"end":507.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.20909375,"end":508.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.88409375000003,"end":512.5078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.02284375000005,"end":511.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.8115937499999,"end":517.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.1228437500001,"end":520.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.4265937499999,"end":520.9115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.9409687500001,"end":524.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.67909375,"end":527.8640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.4890937499999,"end":526.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.1003437500001,"end":531.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.01534375,"end":532.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.07846875,"end":549.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.98721875,"end":557.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.2390937499999,"end":560.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.49596875,"end":562.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.5547187500001,"end":565.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.59221875,"end":567.5034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.09409375,"end":570.6084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.23284375,"end":573.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.5447187500001,"end":579.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.24846875,"end":584.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.1884687500001,"end":591.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.88784375,"end":595.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.98846875,"end":598.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.8234687500001,"end":607.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":607.8684687500001,"end":613.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.5890937500001,"end":615.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.1372187500001,"end":617.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.8247187500001,"end":618.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.5165937500001,"end":619.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":619.1240937499999,"end":622.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.6172187500001,"end":623.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.71846875,"end":626.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.78971875,"end":628.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.12659375,"end":645.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":645.5334687500001,"end":655.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.74284375,"end":660.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":661.19346875,"end":663.6572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":665.12534375,"end":666.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":667.0828437499999,"end":676.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.0147187500002,"end":671.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":676.6172187500001,"end":678.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.3215937500001,"end":679.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.2622187500001,"end":682.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.62471875,"end":684.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.6203437500001,"end":686.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":685.84784375,"end":686.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":686.5903437500001,"end":711.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.00409375,"end":717.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":717.5222187500001,"end":720.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":720.7453437500001,"end":722.4834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.70284375,"end":724.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":724.6772187500001,"end":725.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":726.17909375,"end":726.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.17471875,"end":729.5034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":729.82409375,"end":733.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":733.5365937500001,"end":738.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":738.7678437500001,"end":761.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":761.88659375,"end":762.30846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.807,"end":23.393,"text":"好 麻煩請洪聖翰部長來 請部長部長都還沒有吃 你們都吃飽了很好 沒事 市長好好 村委員好部長好我想先請教你那個就是說我們一般整體的這個失業率跟原住民的失業率各是多少"},{"start":24.673,"end":49.38,"text":"目前應該都是3%出頭然後原名我剛看到是3.08我們在3出頭3點零幾是都一樣嗎兩個數字都一樣嗎很接近就原名會給我們原住民的原住民族的事業的數字所以這個部分是原名會做的不是你們去統計的好那所以是你們委託原名會做"},{"start":50.08,"end":61.447,"text":"不是他們自己做的他們自己做所以你們做的失業率就不會再分不會再特別分族群去做研究是嗎他們數據3.43抱歉好那整體的呢"},{"start":69.451,"end":96.288,"text":"3.38好那我想是这样因为今天前面有好几位原住民的立委来这来未还关心原住民的这个就业的问题那虽然这个没有在我的咨询稿里面但是就说刚刚他们所提到的其实我很早以前我都有问过了但是我想我刚在这边听好我想点出一些问题就是说"},{"start":98.931,"end":113.307,"text":"我们其实常常在部落也好或者是在很多地方我们在跑原住民的这个行程的时候也很巧你说3.48的失业率是吗"},{"start":115.531,"end":138.879,"text":"3.43的失业率那我们怎么走动好神奇哦就这3.43%的人我们走没几步就会遇到所以为什么刚刚有委员说你们那个不能光看你这个数字啊是不准那是因为我们出去走确实有遇到这样的现象所以我就要请教你了就是说"},{"start":140.205,"end":158.1,"text":"你們原住民失業率的這個到底就是說這個採樣是怎麼樣那你們說是原民會做的那我現在因為我不太清楚說做這個是原民會的工作還是你們的工作還是你們有講好說就是讓他們做還是你們覺得他們做了你們就不用做了"},{"start":158.991,"end":172.904,"text":"因為畢竟我認為勞動部在做這些研究或許是比較專業的我想委員針對你剛才講的這個現象我覺得我們可以來跟原民會來討論就是說到底了解一下他的調查方法如何"},{"start":174.446,"end":189.142,"text":"了解一下它的那個樣本對 更好的調查方法那大家在不同的調查方法上面就是說不同的調查單位其實能夠去做對接在方法上面比較奇異比較能也能夠去做可行性的比較那我是不是也建議你們也做一下"},{"start":190.143,"end":214.765,"text":"因為其實在做這個失業率的統計當然有很多的技巧我相信勞動部的各位應該都比我還熟那起碼看你們是質化還是量化或者兩個並行怎麼樣做比較準這個還牽扯到這個區域的問題因為我們原鄉跟都會區的原住民的工作型態是差距是非常大的"},{"start":215.566,"end":230.635,"text":"好所以這個部分因為我這樣聽起來我認為部長對於原住民的這個整個生活型態並不是很了解我們也可以體諒但是不能一直包容下去因為您坐這個位置原住民的勞工"},{"start":231.215,"end":257.073,"text":"好跟跟这个其他劳工朋友本国的劳工朋友外籍的劳工朋友都一样都是劳工也都是劳动部需要关心的对象那所以这个部分我本期建议就是说劳动部你们可以也邀集好先讨论一下就是说看要你们自己研究所要做还是你们委外给哪个单位做但是要做之前"},{"start":258.234,"end":264.061,"text":"我覺得你們要去找就是說對於這個原住民整個生活型態很了解的因為畢竟過去"},{"start":265.974,"end":291.106,"text":"我曾經聽到在這個公部門有人很得意的講這個不小心讓我聽到就是說因為我們要降低這個數據我們就其實就有很多這個臨時的工作跑出來當這個臨時的工作跑出來的時候你當然在做說他這個失業率在做的時候當然跟當然"},{"start":292.327,"end":311.833,"text":"到底說他是誤差還是他是技巧性的美化這個我們就不知道了啊好部長你覺得這個部份我們統一處這邊來說明報告委員是這樣子就是我們國家的那個政府統計他是你可以大聲一點我們國家的"},{"start":313.447,"end":330.265,"text":"我們國家的政府統計它是依據主席總署的各部會統計範圍劃分方案來分工的這個原因是因為你分什麼工分工 譬如說哪個統計是哪個部會負責"},{"start":333.789,"end":348.312,"text":"那因為各部會的這個職權多少有點重複的地方好沒關係我了解你要講什麼我想如果是如果是已經有這個分工所以你這個分工確定是"},{"start":349.133,"end":364.854,"text":"那個原住民的失業率是由原民會來做是嗎好那這個部分本席在這裡要求那你們是不是可以討論一下就是說也理解了解一下那提供你們平常在做那個失業率的部分好怎麼樣做然後也跟原住民的部分"},{"start":365.314,"end":390.905,"text":"就是說大家做一下意見交流我覺得在做之前我們這樣好不好我們來跟原住民原民會討論一下他們做的方法上面有沒有什麼地方可以我們有提供建議的地方我們會來找他們因為以前你們勞動部應該是自己也有做過啦可以去了解一下看看我印象中是這樣子的那另外就是說我要講的是"},{"start":392.782,"end":407.621,"text":"再來就是說大家如果不是在數據上琢磨的話那我認為就是說剛剛前面委員提到了在這個營造業好特別蓋房子"},{"start":408.961,"end":424.233,"text":"這個部分其實不談先不談這個失業率我們談的是說在我們現在的這個逃逸的外籍勞工人數已經邁入"},{"start":428.881,"end":454.816,"text":"10萬9萬也快10萬多少9萬4很快啊可能可能你再過一兩個禮拜搞不好就變10萬了啊好所以這個部分喔你們倒是可以好好的去了解一下因為這個部分影響的是我們原來從事這些營造業的我們原住民的朋友的日薪他們的收入"},{"start":456.089,"end":481.011,"text":"因為就請這個逃逸的就比較便宜啊那當然大家都會去請那我們也遇到就是說之前有原住民的朋友拿不到工資的來跟我們懲請我們有協助去溝通那拿到以後他生氣不聘請這個正常的原住民的這個老公朋友現在就轉而去聘請這些逃逸的"},{"start":482.321,"end":499.669,"text":"所以你們應該也要我要在這邊也要請你們再做一個研究跟評估就是這個逃逸的這個外籍勞工對營造業的勞工的就業影響好以及這個衝擊評估好特別是原住民的部分"},{"start":501.598,"end":530.957,"text":"我們綜合的來思考一下好了這部分對不是我不曉得你的思考是什麼就是我們來看一下你要思考什麼我請你做這個評估你要思考什麼就是可以跟不可以我們來看一下這個評估現在有沒有一些資料可以來提供我們請我們研究所來看一下對有嗎現在有嗎現在沒有嗎就請你們做啊對他說沒有能做嗎如果沒有的話我們就來進行吧對好這部分也請你們一併就做一下"},{"start":532.045,"end":560.485,"text":"好那大概我想就针对原住民的部分大概是这样那我最后提一下比较具体一点的在我也想同步了解一下就是这个缺工缺工因为那个目前目前统计出来就是那个旅宿业流动率就特别高嘛我们在这个表上面很清楚"},{"start":561.55,"end":587.782,"text":"平均就花了花了大概三個月的招募然後也很難找到人所以我想從這個表我們今天都脫稿來質詢那這個部分我們就是因為我觀察到的在台東那個勞動部去辦理這個"},{"start":589.286,"end":597.867,"text":"就是說就業的這些這些媒合那是就是等於大雜燴各類型的全部都在一起"},{"start":599.368,"end":627.934,"text":"也很好也认真但是呢我们有没有考虑过就是说我们在未来是不是就是说分类更集中比如说我今天我针对的是这个吕树叶的我们就今天就来一个好来一个吕树叶很集中有之前做过我不知道因为我在台东我是没有看到我刚好之前针对吕树叶我们其实有进专案媒合有媒合到我们那里去吗"},{"start":630.565,"end":658.292,"text":"那個不要緊我是說建議我不是說只有鋁樹葉啦我說未來你們就是說整體綜合的那是不是未來有幾項抽出來我們也就是分類型去辦理我在這裡我沒有沒有責備的意思啦我是說我們可以好調整一下那我也想了解就是說因為我去台東我有去參加那個就是那個中高齡的"},{"start":659.437,"end":678.746,"text":"那個就業的你們有一個就業的那個中心開幕我有去那這半年就是台東縣銀髮人才服務據點的這個部分可能已經經過6個月了我想了解一下這6個月你們的成效怎麼樣"},{"start":680.507,"end":705.861,"text":"大概我想大概是這樣所以我們一周內把相關的資料送到委員辦公室好不好你們在會後再麻煩一下那因為剛剛就是有那個剛剛也有原住民的立委特別有提到就是說好像我們常在做那個就業的那個訓練啊執訓都是固定的好像都只有那幾種類型而且不是很高階的"},{"start":707.081,"end":727.782,"text":"我要在這裡點出一個問題啦因為我知道你們資訊有時候也是委外那在我們台東確實有一些有奇特的現象長期以來呢可能就是單一的協會在辦理那這個單一協會的辦理就很容易他就是會有集中在幾項的這個"},{"start":730.945,"end":746.802,"text":"我們的這個執訓的部分那除了表面上是這樣那實質上有沒有其他的目的我覺得你們應該也要關心一下我今天在這裡我就不要講的太明講出來就傷感情了我想這個部分未來"},{"start":748.084,"end":760.934,"text":"就是說我們在這個執訓的委外單位的這個訓練跟培養其實也可以更多元好到機會可以給更多的人去參與好 以上謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165332","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165332","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3ec4deb31aea005c6b62a46119727b9b988d062fb7dbff77cc983e64055ff8df45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"13:56:20 - 14:07:10","影片長度":"00:10:50","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T13:56:20+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T14:07:10+08:00","duration":650,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.21971875,"end":10.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.589718750000003,"end":16.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.38284375,"end":22.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.52096875,"end":24.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.97221875,"end":27.149093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.21659375,"end":29.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.511593750000003,"end":30.777218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.45221875,"end":46.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.75346875,"end":54.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.17846875,"end":67.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.70909375,"end":62.400968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.37471875,"end":72.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.72846875,"end":91.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.18534375,"end":100.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.18409375,"end":133.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.72721875000002,"end":146.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.59846875000002,"end":149.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.56034375000002,"end":150.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.84721875,"end":152.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.69096875,"end":150.84284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.27721875,"end":155.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.63534375,"end":157.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.22159375,"end":157.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.67721875,"end":157.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.36471875,"end":161.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.44034375,"end":164.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.62534375,"end":166.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.94159375,"end":174.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.46784375000001,"end":175.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.07534375,"end":194.98784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.21846875,"end":177.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.44971875000002,"end":182.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.93471875,"end":185.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.44346875000002,"end":219.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.38659375,"end":208.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.55784375000002,"end":224.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.80596875,"end":231.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.45534375000003,"end":227.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.21846875000003,"end":234.74534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.62284375000002,"end":246.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.72659375,"end":261.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.64409375,"end":287.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.94784375,"end":294.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.80346875000004,"end":295.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.98471875,"end":302.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.70534375,"end":302.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.61659375,"end":303.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.91596875000005,"end":324.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.10471875,"end":311.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.48846875000004,"end":312.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.02659375,"end":328.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.68846875,"end":329.65034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.00471875,"end":346.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.38596875,"end":365.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.58971875000003,"end":366.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.24784375,"end":368.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.40784375000004,"end":369.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.16721875,"end":372.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.01909375,"end":374.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.18346875000003,"end":381.47346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.81096875000003,"end":383.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.65034375000005,"end":387.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.53159375,"end":392.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.35784375000003,"end":394.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.58534375000005,"end":396.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.03659375,"end":398.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.97284375000004,"end":399.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.14159375,"end":399.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.46221875000003,"end":401.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.63471875000005,"end":403.37721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.66846875000005,"end":405.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.51596875,"end":410.12721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.68846875,"end":426.64784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.93034375,"end":443.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.87721875000005,"end":505.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.77471875000003,"end":521.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.29534375,"end":531.6609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.1840937500001,"end":534.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.05284375,"end":548.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.9640937500001,"end":536.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.0634687500001,"end":550.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.0972187500001,"end":548.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.4934687500001,"end":552.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.8728437500001,"end":553.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.05409375,"end":564.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.7122187500001,"end":555.1003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.9428437500001,"end":566.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.6303437500001,"end":567.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.25034375,"end":578.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.0434687500001,"end":568.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.8953437499999,"end":571.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.49846875,"end":572.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.00034375,"end":574.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.56096875,"end":577.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.08409375,"end":578.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.65784375,"end":596.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.5434687500001,"end":582.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.01159375,"end":583.5515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.8997187500001,"end":625.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.35096875,"end":630.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.53159375,"end":641.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.1965937500001,"end":644.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.79096875,"end":645.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.7903437500001,"end":649.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.93784375,"end":652.2834687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.513,"end":26.568,"text":"謝謝主席我們邀請紅部長部長好我想請教一下你覺得你的工作跟你們勞動部的工作跟生育率提升有沒有關係我覺得現在各部會的工作都跟生育率有關係"},{"start":27.71,"end":46.366,"text":"好 那我跟你分享一份研究報告它其實已經不是新的研究報告了但是最近這位鄭彥新研究員中研院的研究員他在8月5號的時候在中研院的學術講堂再次針對如何理解台灣的低生育率現象的時候"},{"start":48.033,"end":67.222,"text":"進行演講然後這副影片呢哇迴響非常大有超過1萬人來觀看這個這副這個影片喔所以我想這個影片的主題大家非常有共鳴那我簡單跟部長講一下你看過了是不是好那總結了三個重點嘛對不對那部長他講了三個重點"},{"start":68.542,"end":91.413,"text":"為什麼大家不結婚的主因就是婚姻跟生育的概念問題第二個年輕世代不結婚的主因就是因為工時很長沒有對象然後呢還有這個經濟門檻比較高那第三個是這個那我想我們今天就先針對於第二個年輕世代不結婚的主因來跟部長做個討論那我想這個工時很長不僅是影響到大家可能"},{"start":92.894,"end":116.511,"text":"應該我簡單講一下他講就是說他的研究是說如果你有生如果你有結婚那其實蠻高的比例都會生小孩這是他裡面的一個重點那但是呢所以要如何讓年輕人結婚那就是非常重要的一件事情可是呢現在年輕人就因為工時太長了他其實沒有時間去做社交那其實也就很難產生到接下來我們要結婚生小孩這個部分所以呢我想跟部長來討論就是說因為這個"},{"start":119.333,"end":146.142,"text":"工時很長不僅只是影響到生育率還有家長之間的教養關係以及我們的這個孩子的學習時數也是很有關係所以我想跟部長來討論一下就是您現在有沒有跟我們其他的部會一起來討論來解決這個工時過長的問題例如就是說可能像是交友與生活空間改善的一個策略跟內政部來做個討論"},{"start":148.632,"end":175.903,"text":"跟內政部為什麼是跟內政部對啊因為交友與生活空間的改善因為內政部是人口人口的部分嗎因為通常公使問題大家都會是指責勞動部公使但也有你的部分等一下下題就是你的我們是沒有跟內政部直接討論說這個休閒的空間的問題啦這個休閒空間生活空間跟交友空間的部分"},{"start":178.084,"end":193.268,"text":"我們應該是沒有跟內政部針對這個主題來進行討論這樣子但是整體在少子化精英政策裡面我們當然是這裡面我們當然也很願意在我們業務業館的業務下面來協助那工時的部分的確"},{"start":195.789,"end":223.109,"text":"我們其實也很希望就是說比方說我們在相關的政策上這也是為什麼我們希望能夠逐年的來提高最低工資就是希望把因為過去會有一些勞工他因為他的薪資比較低所以他必須透過一直加班來增加薪水所以我們希望把這些比較低薪的勞工的他的這個最低的地板的薪資地板的狀況盡量往上拉也希望能夠減少大家加班的機會可是加班與否的問題的確會跟"},{"start":224.95,"end":253.017,"text":"整個台灣的經濟情境的景氣也會有關係所以裡面連動的因素也會蠻多的對那我想問一下就是說因為其實幫我下一頁好了因為其實啊我們在看113年的勞工生活及就業狀況調查裡面也有提到就是不改變目前的一個工作時數的狀況之下因為剛剛聽起來解決工時的要處理問題還蠻複雜跟經濟有非常關係非常多關係那勞工其實就有提到如果每週工作5天"},{"start":253.798,"end":270.82,"text":"有46.5%的人希望可以採彈性工時的AGO工作方式那我想這其實也是一個目前可以解決在不影響工時的狀況整體工時的狀況的一個方法那可是呢我也有看到很多的家長他們在網路也有提到說"},{"start":271.821,"end":287.558,"text":"他也很希望可以有彈性工時讓他可以去接送小孩啊那之前我們現在已經做到這個育嬰明年要開始嗎育嬰彈性的這個部分那接下來我就想要請教我們是不是可以針對這個地方提供給不管是家長也好或是年輕的工作者也好有更多的一個彈性呢"},{"start":289.397,"end":301.853,"text":"跟文報告其實現在我們的確看到現在很多勞工他對於職場的彈性的需求或對這個需求的表達的程度比以往來的更高那"},{"start":304.076,"end":329.256,"text":"甚至也不只只有年輕的勞工這樣表達但是的確年輕的勞工表達需要這樣彈性的比例或者強烈的程度也是比較高這也是為什麼我們在設計我們給青壯世代包括我們讓這個家庭照顧假可以更彈性以小時來請暈暈流停可以日來請的重要的原因那我們其實就目前我們政策上面我們有一些"},{"start":330.317,"end":344.668,"text":"補助那如果尤其是有些婦女他如果二度就業他需要有更彈性的彈性工時的話來去協調相關上下班時間的部分的話其實沒有給雇主相對應的補助其實也有但都是圍繞著怎麼讓職場更彈性的這個主題"},{"start":347.415,"end":368.633,"text":"對 但是我想也可能不是二度就業啦應該是所有的不管是現在的上班族可能特別是針對於家長他們都有強烈的表達他們非常期待有這樣子的一個需求那雖然說性工法提供了這樣子的一個規定可是事實上實務上到底有多少的企業提供了這樣子的一個服務跟一個支持我不曉得勞動部這邊有統計嗎因為我們是沒有找到相關的資料"},{"start":369.434,"end":395.735,"text":"我們可能相關的統計我們還要再來看一下有沒有這樣相關的數字那我想一下我想確認一下就是說如果我們這邊目前沒有相關的數字我們是不是可以進行相關的調查了解到底實務上面到底有多少企業可以做到這件事情我是覺得這個主題是蠻值得來了解一下的對可以嗎好那這個如果大概什麼時候可以告訴我們有相關的資料如果有的話這個調查可能會需要的時間會長一點我覺得可能要半年喔"},{"start":396.107,"end":409.52,"text":"沒有啦 你們如果現在手邊有資料的話給你們多少時間找一下我們可能沒有非常嚴謹的調查的資料對 我們如果有資料我們到委員辦公室這邊來跟委員討論好 沒關係"},{"start":411.281,"end":426.369,"text":"那如果沒有的話我就希望我們至少在半年之內我們可以了解一下到底食物上面有多少的企業可以提供這樣子的支持那我們才能夠知道說是不是接下來我們下一步可以怎麼做那在下一個部分想要延續一樣再往下"},{"start":427.972,"end":443.364,"text":"延續一下我想部長最近也應該有看到韓國的生育率微幅的上漲嘛對不對這個大家也有也重新的去看了一下哇他們提供了非常非常多的一個支持那我今天先簡單講一個重點就好了因為時間也有限那就是我講一個重點就是說在"},{"start":444.085,"end":468.121,"text":"在韓國生育率的微幅上漲啊其實他有三個重點那我自己特別覺得很關鍵的一個是2025年起政府強制要求上司公司揭露托兒與育嬰相關的統計資料並且對中小企業提供財政的補助然後也計劃在育兒支援工作家庭平衡和住房補貼上投入了19.7兆的一個韓元叫2024年成長了22%"},{"start":470.682,"end":490.615,"text":"所以我覺得這個上市公司或者是中小企業我們如何鼓勵他們更積極的去鼓勵他們其實也是一個非常關鍵的事情所以我也想要了解說在這個部分上面這是先提但我先講但是待會這是其中一個問題所以等我講完第二個問題的時候再部長再一起回答"},{"start":491.195,"end":506.568,"text":"所以我們到底有沒有什麼樣子更積極的做法鼓勵大家可以提供更友善育兒的環境那第二個部分就是說他們在2026年要即將推動一個政策那這個政策呢是針對育兒期的勞工小學生的家長他10點以後才才要去上班"},{"start":508.31,"end":521.227,"text":"也就是說他每天可以少一個小時的工作時間來協助勞工育兒那目前他們其實也是已經在光州事辦過成效不錯那我也想了解說我們有沒有考慮往這個方向來去效法呢"},{"start":523.215,"end":547.483,"text":"委員兩個部分來回答第一個事情是針對企業托育的部分我們正請我們的業務單位在研擬一個希望能夠鼓勵加碼的計劃不管是他的設施比較是在他硬體的設施上或者是在軟體的上面我們也希望有一個這個擴大的計劃但目前我們在研議中"},{"start":548.063,"end":568.134,"text":"那大概什么时候我们会知道比较详细的内容呢可能可能年底吧年底是吗应该会跟之前稍微更精进吧因为我想之前过去就能提供托育啦托育的空间这些东西那应该还要再加嘛在软体的部分对不对我们也认为因为过去在幕僚很用力的点头因为过去在"},{"start":568.974,"end":596.066,"text":"硬體的部分很多還是會回復空間還是一個限制的條件所以我們希望在軟體的部分能夠更多的幫助這樣子這是第一個那第二個當然我們有看到韓國的這個做法其實在新聞上面有看到但實際上面我們當然也可以再了解他們實施這個做法以後遇到的問題當然我覺得現在因為台灣的少子化的問題其實相對應的職場制度的調整我覺得各國的做法都應該納為我們參考的對象"},{"start":597.266,"end":625.287,"text":"我想这个部分的话就请部长持续的来去了解因为他们就是在光州实施之后效果很不错所以他们才会在2026年全韩国一起试用那这在网路上面许多的家长的回馈台湾家长的回馈都觉得非常的羡慕所以我希望就是说因为刚刚部长有讲嘛步步其实都跟生育率非常有关系那所以也希望劳动部针对这一点也可以持续的再跟进来提供一个更友善的一个工作环境来给我们的家长这样子"},{"start":625.467,"end":644.764,"text":"是 怎麼讓這個職場對於家庭的照顧有些對小孩的照顧有效我想我們近期真的很多相關的業務主管單位都為這個事情花了蠻多的心力在研擬都希望能夠突破一些過去的框架好 那我們就相關的這些資料我們就後續來跟勞動部追 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請農民財委員"}]}},{"id":"165328","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165328","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe34c9e0edffb6f2f27b62a46119727b9b985b487800f276530a1c492a21a7eb66e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"13:25:44 - 13:35:22","影片長度":"00:09:38","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T13:25:44+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T13:35:22+08:00","duration":578,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.750968750000002,"end":9.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.76784375,"end":11.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.14721875,"end":12.957218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.39034375,"end":22.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.99784375,"end":36.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.51471875,"end":38.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.79284375,"end":41.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.47596875,"end":44.985968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.37409375,"end":46.875968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.02784375,"end":49.845968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.11596875,"end":91.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.76346875,"end":124.31534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.51784375000001,"end":97.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.74471875,"end":103.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.01471875,"end":104.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.31534375000001,"end":125.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.73721875000001,"end":124.99034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.78346875000001,"end":146.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.62471875,"end":142.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.50596875000002,"end":146.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.14721875,"end":158.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.89221875,"end":165.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.99659375000002,"end":175.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.86846875,"end":185.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.16221875000002,"end":187.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.57971875,"end":188.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.50346875000002,"end":194.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.46471875,"end":206.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.14221875,"end":209.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.80409375000002,"end":212.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.38159375,"end":223.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.03409375,"end":223.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.25346875000002,"end":223.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.45596875,"end":226.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.72971875000002,"end":227.13471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.13471875000002,"end":230.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.50971875000002,"end":233.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.12096875,"end":257.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.02659375000002,"end":244.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.71221875000003,"end":260.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.59346875,"end":268.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.69846875,"end":265.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.17034375000003,"end":276.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.14846875,"end":274.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.03409375,"end":286.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.97784375000003,"end":286.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.29846875000004,"end":293.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.54221875,"end":295.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.33534375,"end":295.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.78221875,"end":299.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.41034375000004,"end":317.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.85471875,"end":326.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.64721875000004,"end":323.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.14471875000004,"end":328.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.84909375,"end":327.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.28346875,"end":332.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.85659375,"end":343.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.29096875000005,"end":334.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.33221875000004,"end":340.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.00284375,"end":347.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.96409375,"end":352.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.04346875000005,"end":352.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.71846875,"end":362.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.51846875,"end":364.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.62784375,"end":382.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.09971875,"end":372.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.43221875,"end":375.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.46596875,"end":375.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.78159375,"end":381.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.55784375,"end":384.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.61659375000005,"end":387.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.15221875000003,"end":385.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.90721875,"end":450.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.11659375000005,"end":465.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.03409375,"end":504.94784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.63971875000004,"end":508.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.96846875000006,"end":514.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.3640937499999,"end":518.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.5322187500001,"end":534.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.4422187499999,"end":527.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.36534375,"end":538.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.4740937500001,"end":549.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.3628437500001,"end":568.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.6697187500001,"end":557.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.2265937500001,"end":557.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.71596875,"end":557.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.0947187500001,"end":564.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.98471875,"end":566.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.99721875,"end":575.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.40596875,"end":570.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.48159375,"end":572.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.49846875,"end":572.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.2747187500001,"end":573.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.29159375,"end":573.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.32534375,"end":574.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.7890937500001,"end":577.7803437499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.118,"end":12.82,"text":"謝謝主席 有請洪部長來 請部長部長好我們原住民立委都很關心我們原住民族勞工的職災狀況那特別是最嚴重的就是根據這個統計看起來呢是營造業再來就是製造業"},{"start":38.898,"end":65.494,"text":"那麼這幾個行業那它的一個實在在這麼多年的關注之下我們往往也發現其實它的件數不減反增啦所以我們也很想去了解說到底是要怎麼樣去做才有辦法有效的來改善這種情形那曾經監察院審計部有提過就是特別糾正勞動部他們的看法是說"},{"start":66.414,"end":91.061,"text":"我國的勞檢人力不足會導致勞工檢查過低那不足以有效的嚇阻雇主違法行為及提供安全的工作環境所以我想特別先請教一下部長針對這個前兩名就是營造業 製造業我們原住民比較容易發生的一個職災類別那目前的勞檢覆蓋率大概是怎麼樣"},{"start":91.809,"end":119.175,"text":"跟委員說明其實勞檢的人力確實一直以來都相對比較辛苦的所以我們一直在跟行政院跟人總在爭取是不是能夠有更多的這個人力的名額但的確這裡面會涉及到這個整個員額編制上面的狀況所以在爭取上所以我們盡量希望能夠再多提高一些勞檢員他的勞動的條件或相關的這個家籍的部分來去協助"},{"start":120.195,"end":141.912,"text":"那目前的這個覆蓋率我請署長這邊來說署長請跟委員報告確實現在我們原住民的勞工朋友主要是在這個高風險的營造業跟製造業那也跟委員報告光營造業我們一年的勞檢的常識就相當於到11萬常識所以這個兩個行業一直是我們一個檢查重點"},{"start":147.276,"end":164.961,"text":"所以意思就是說在人力這些年持續不足的狀況下但是老減覆蓋率還是有在注意有在提升嗎那為什麼我這樣子問因為我們發現好像我們怎麼做都會"},{"start":166.121,"end":192.861,"text":"就是道高一尺 謀高一丈啊我們往往發現這種層層轉包的這種方式其實我們在接受一些陳情案的時候也很困擾我們因為有很多隱匿的狀況那舉個例子來講我們很多發生的狀況就是他如果受傷了 在工地受傷了會發現說不准叫救護車因為他們都會知道說這樣子報公安 報勞檢"},{"start":194.562,"end":208.638,"text":"可能就會被要求停工或怎麼樣所以他們就會有很多的方式去規避去隱匿那你覺得我們營建業 製造業有多少是因為這樣的原因被隱匿起來跟這個委員報告"},{"start":213.444,"end":232.958,"text":"基本上我們其實現在也在新的這個責任法的修正條文裡面其實規定如果你有你就是該通報不通報的狀況的話其實最高可以罰到450萬我就是知道說你們有在進行修法嗎好那可不可以說明一下修法的方向目前就是把罰則部分我們會把它給提高"},{"start":234.312,"end":259.989,"text":"然後包括營造業剛剛在委員在講的尤其是營造業的狀況的確我看到的情況是因為他的這個層層的分包讓他的責任很難追究所以這一次我們其實也在食安法的修法裡面明定了業主的責任也包括是在這層層轉包過程裡面要有一個包商責任的統合機制就是希望要避免說發生了職災其實照理來說"},{"start":261.65,"end":275.887,"text":"更該負責的是一開始的業主或上面的大包可是最後卻都轉嫁變成是最下的小包然後做那個最基層的包商在承擔這個責任那這個其實不符合我們在整個工地裡面運作的狀況的認知"},{"start":277.379,"end":302.819,"text":"部長我是很高興因為我們也關切很久也知道你們在進行修法那我剛剛聽起來一方面是罰金加重二方面是對於這種層層轉包責任全部都要分攤但是要整合對整合但是我現在的意思是說像這個狀況我覺得也必須要去被瞭解被處理"},{"start":303.459,"end":331.437,"text":"因為他就是怕被停工他就是怕被罰錢所以他一定會有很多隱匿的狀況所以我的意思是說這個部分在修法的時候有沒有去考慮到跟委員說明的確因為現在這個狀況其實不只發生在原住民的勞工其實整體在我們很多營造業都有我們吉安法要修就是要這是一個破口漏洞現在當然相關的通報或者是申訴其實"},{"start":332.938,"end":362.198,"text":"包括家屬也都可以所以我們能夠做的當然是要把這個假設有這樣的狀況他被抓到的嚇阻要提高嘛這是把罰金給提高的這個狀況但是他就更怕被講他可能就會有其他後面的所以我覺得我們可以來思考怎麼樣讓這個通報或者是來申訴的門檻可以再降低這樣子那最後就是我再請教就是我其實是這樣子想啦有沒有可能就是成立一個原住民的公安推動小組"},{"start":363.558,"end":386.814,"text":"部長您的看法如何我覺得如果原民會有這樣子的想法的話我們當然可以跟原民會來討論好那我希望進行討論但是這部分就原住民的情境原住民的特性當然原民會會比我們更加的清楚只是他在職場上面的狀況在這部分我們能夠協助的我們願意來協助但是至少要有這個平台來開這個會如果原民會來跟我們討論的話我覺得我們可以來思考跟研議"},{"start":386.974,"end":404.069,"text":"那我也很感謝就是我有私下跟您提過就是救福法第12條有說縣市人口達2萬人以上可以來設立這個公立的原住民就業服務機構這是我5、6年前一直不斷訴求那很謝謝後來勞動部呢就是由中央"},{"start":405.31,"end":422.138,"text":"來協助買單所以目前有6個縣市有申請你們提供設施設備房屋租金租車人事費及業務費但是我盤了一下目前我們勞動部協助的這些原住民的救福據點"},{"start":423.238,"end":450.183,"text":"人力有28人那原民會呢他也用他的原住民的這些轉過來的貸金的這個就業基金他也做了各地方的一個舊府辦公室目前人力有79名那我們原本是這樣想就是把整合或讓他1加1大於2但是我們發現說現在有個問題就是有的縣市呢他會放在原民局處"},{"start":451.383,"end":469.136,"text":"有的縣市他會放在勞工勞動的局處那這個勞政單位的呢我們就發現很好為什麼因為他們可以撈到這些正式的這些資料那放在園民會的呢他們是撈不到這些資料"},{"start":470.216,"end":497.625,"text":"那另外就是說放在園民會的呢就很困擾了因為他們會變成是園民會的救人帶這些新人所以他們在磨合的部分也要花很多的時間那我不曉得說勞動部這邊有沒有一個想法我們怎麼樣讓這個原本我們希望整合或1加1大於2的這樣的一個救福人力"},{"start":498.345,"end":504.392,"text":"能夠讓它發揮功效所以我是想說部長有沒有可能就是勞動部邀請原民會"},{"start":505.7,"end":528.492,"text":"能夠一同的來就這件事情好好的坐下來跟各位說我是覺得我想我們跟地方政府在這部分合作我們不會我們主觀上不會想要去區分他是在哪個局處所以今天如果我們在資料上面資訊上面合作上面要借接的話我會請我們的同仁來擴大把各部會如果是放在原民局處的情況也納入"},{"start":528.932,"end":557.626,"text":"然後也納入我們聯繫的對象好不好就不是因為的確勞動部過去在地方政府我這樣說好了就是因為放的地方不一樣我們就會接到陳情所以我覺得是不是至少勞動部 園民會就是一同的來就這件事情聽聽這兩邊救福源的聲音可以可以我是這樣想我們勞動部當然可以找園民會甚至委員如果這邊要召開一些協調的話我覺得也是很好"},{"start":558.246,"end":574.226,"text":"那跨部會來針對他放在地方政府不同的局處我想我們都應該擴大的把它給納入在我們整個資源整合的過程裡面這樣子我們希望把這件事情把它成就起來啦好不要為德不足啦很可惜好謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝吳委員謝謝部長"}]}},{"id":"165327","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165327","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe34a570029e5fa6fcdb62a46119727b9b985b487800f2765308b382dd59e615ff75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"13:17:14 - 13:25:37","影片長度":"00:08:23","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T13:17:14+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T13:25:37+08:00","duration":503,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.64596875,"end":11.016593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.876593750000001,"end":23.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.11284375,"end":16.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.55034375,"end":27.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.43596875,"end":30.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.43534375,"end":32.852843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.595343750000005,"end":38.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.11346875,"end":43.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.70346875,"end":45.002843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.728468750000005,"end":46.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.36534375,"end":48.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.765968750000006,"end":51.111593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.76971875,"end":52.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.91721875,"end":54.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.27971875,"end":58.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.329718750000005,"end":63.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.40909375,"end":68.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.23534375,"end":72.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.13346875,"end":74.11221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.70284375,"end":75.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.06971875,"end":77.92596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.65159375,"end":81.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.62159375,"end":82.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.12346875,"end":84.49034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.68846875,"end":86.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.78534375000001,"end":87.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.41784375,"end":90.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.03784375000001,"end":94.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.95284375,"end":94.96971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.57721875,"end":98.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.83409375000001,"end":101.77034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.49596875,"end":103.64346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.21721875,"end":106.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.15346875,"end":110.59596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.08534375,"end":112.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.87409375,"end":114.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.20284375000001,"end":116.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.17721875000001,"end":118.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.02909375,"end":123.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.34471875000001,"end":126.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.53846875,"end":131.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.10721875000002,"end":133.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.11971875,"end":135.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.75659375,"end":140.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.12284375000002,"end":143.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.34596875,"end":144.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.04159375,"end":150.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.74159375000002,"end":151.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.32784375,"end":153.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.39096875,"end":156.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.12034375000002,"end":158.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.79096875000002,"end":160.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.79471875000002,"end":163.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.35971875,"end":166.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.00471875000002,"end":169.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.63721875000002,"end":171.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.39221875,"end":174.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.07534375,"end":175.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.34096875,"end":176.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.03284375,"end":177.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.83846875,"end":180.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.72846875000002,"end":182.87159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.49596875,"end":185.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.95971875,"end":186.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.17034375,"end":189.62159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.02659375000002,"end":191.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.95034375,"end":193.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.35909375,"end":197.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.02534375000002,"end":199.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.59471875000003,"end":202.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.88534375,"end":204.42096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.51784375000003,"end":207.18846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.76221875000002,"end":208.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.89284375000003,"end":210.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.96846875,"end":214.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.37284375000002,"end":217.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.97159375,"end":219.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.18221875,"end":223.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.52346875,"end":223.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.83534375000002,"end":226.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.99971875000003,"end":228.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.36659375000002,"end":232.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.97346875000002,"end":234.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.08284375000002,"end":236.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.41596875000002,"end":237.64784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.74909375000001,"end":238.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.31846875000002,"end":240.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.60096875000002,"end":241.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.88346875000002,"end":243.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.54971875,"end":245.59596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.59596875000003,"end":245.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.43971875000003,"end":256.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.09221875000003,"end":256.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.54784375,"end":256.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.50971875,"end":263.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.90534375000004,"end":265.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.52096875,"end":273.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.08096875,"end":274.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.80221875,"end":277.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.28721875,"end":277.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.33346875,"end":280.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.71284375,"end":281.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.60284375000003,"end":286.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.63596875,"end":288.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.74534375,"end":290.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.32721875000004,"end":292.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.74034375,"end":298.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.42346875000004,"end":297.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.37659375000004,"end":301.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.34659375,"end":313.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.16346875,"end":313.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.42909375,"end":314.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.44596875,"end":316.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.06596875,"end":318.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.97721875,"end":322.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.05284375,"end":319.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.60534375000003,"end":321.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.85409375,"end":321.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.56284375,"end":324.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.07721875000004,"end":331.43909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.57784375,"end":337.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.05409375000005,"end":342.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.06596875,"end":344.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.44534375,"end":346.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.92596875000004,"end":349.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.03534375000004,"end":352.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.59596875,"end":359.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.34596875,"end":361.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.89409375,"end":364.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.80096875000004,"end":366.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.63596875,"end":368.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.54284375000003,"end":370.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.27659375,"end":374.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.68534375,"end":376.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.47409375,"end":378.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.67221875,"end":385.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.23221875,"end":388.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.74659375000005,"end":390.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.76346875,"end":388.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.08409375,"end":391.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.51409375000003,"end":396.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.56471875,"end":392.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.20971875000004,"end":395.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.55534375,"end":400.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.25096875,"end":409.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.36784375,"end":411.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.96659375,"end":418.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.00346875,"end":421.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.55159375000005,"end":422.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.65284375000005,"end":422.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.74971875,"end":445.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.67784375,"end":428.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.34534375000004,"end":447.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.97784375000003,"end":456.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.17471875,"end":458.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.25034375,"end":463.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.28346875000005,"end":464.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.17346875000004,"end":466.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.45159375000003,"end":469.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.20221875000004,"end":470.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.91096875000005,"end":471.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.26096875,"end":473.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.72034375000004,"end":477.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.32346875,"end":485.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.48221875,"end":489.82784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.23721875,"end":490.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.14846875,"end":494.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.02534375000005,"end":499.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.91034375000004,"end":502.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.97346875000005,"end":503.76659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.927,"end":29.497,"text":"主席 各位委員有請部長來 請部長部長好 辛苦了這個原住民的就業這個我們一直希望能夠有更好但是以目前的狀況並沒有更好雖然我們的"},{"start":33.72,"end":50.855,"text":"前任的總統蔡總統他的原住民族就業政策要保障上望新的工作機會但是很遺憾的我們的原住民保障的就業的條文"},{"start":52.984,"end":81.113,"text":"本來在一開始的時候就業服務法46條所授權訂定的外國人從事就業服務法第46條第一項第8款至第11款工作資格及審查標準這是民國93年1月13號訂定發布的這裡面特別規定每禁用言住民一人得申請引進外國人兩人"},{"start":83.448,"end":97.729,"text":"這樣的一個條文在109年7月31號被刪除了所以這個保障條款就變沒有了"},{"start":98.905,"end":123.3,"text":"然後在111年4月29號就全文修正整個65條全文修正當然也沒有回復到我們的剛才講的被刪除的這個條文在這樣一個情況之下你看為了外勞現在為了外籍外勞不斷的修正這個"},{"start":126.35,"end":149.239,"text":"這個審查標準工作資格及審查標準已經修了23次我們不反對啦我們確實也需要但是原住民為什麼要被犧牲呢所以這個部分尤其是我們原住民族的就業狀況"},{"start":150.834,"end":177.495,"text":"我們主要是最高的最多的人數最多的比例最高的營建工程業百分之十八點五九這個比比例很高當然你勞動部一定很清楚現在進來的這些外勞營建工程非常最多然後我們"},{"start":178.871,"end":204.144,"text":"我們就業的比例從事的行業製造業14.03%這是第二高而製造業進來的也越來越多所以這個23次的資格及審查標準的修正影響的都是原住民的勞工而且是我們就業的比例"},{"start":205.543,"end":233.817,"text":"低高跟第二高的都受到很嚴重的影響接下來就是住宿及餐飲業這是我們的第三這是我們就業的第三現在也在受影響剛才羅廷偉委員講的這個跟教學跟這個就業合作的那個部分也影響到我們"},{"start":235.154,"end":256.205,"text":"所以這個部分要請部長要能夠重視怎麼樣去解決把我們的條款能不能再列回來跟委員說其實現在在救福法裡面第24條其實是有把原住民納入成我們的特定對象裡面的部長"},{"start":257.566,"end":281.493,"text":"就業服務法24條現在已經形同稀釋因為根據24條根據24條才會有46條授權訂定的一個保障條款現在沒有了這個保障條款的 沒了所以在這樣一個情形之下我剛剛說了"},{"start":282.923,"end":291.982,"text":"現在外勞進來的營建工程業最多正好是我們就業比例最高的第二 製造業"},{"start":293.769,"end":311.423,"text":"外勞進來的很多我們都不反對外勞進來但是怎麼樣不要影響到我們的就業我們現在在原民會提供的這個失業率的數字上面其實的確沒有看到原住民族的失業率特別高他大概是3%左右"},{"start":314.765,"end":342.052,"text":"還是比一般的其實跟一般跟權力還是差不多的還是比一般的高大概就是在3%左右其實跟其他是差不多的這個部長不能因為這個數字不能因為這個數字就認為說沒有影響到事實上是有影響到在審查已經通過了立法院已經通過了在外國人外國人專業的那個那個辦法"},{"start":343.137,"end":365.912,"text":"外國專業人才禁用的那個辦法又擴大連副協士連副協士都算是一個專業人才外國專業人才副協士以前這個外國專業人才這個辦法副協士沒有列進去這是特別列進去我問教育部 問國發會他說因為勞動部支持"},{"start":372.355,"end":400.004,"text":"所以這個部分的都是影響到影響到這個部分當然我們臺灣的就業的問題很多眼沒有錯但是不要犧牲原住民原來的我們不會再就位去犧牲原住民就絕對不會在老就是有啊我才會如果沒有的話就是我們的勞工跟我反映了"},{"start":401.311,"end":422.556,"text":"老公原住民的老公跟我反映了我才會去仔細的去看這些條文我才知道啊所以這個部分的部長如果你一開始現在我經過這樣的質詢之後這麼詳細的說明之後你都還認為沒有的話這樣是不好的"},{"start":423.056,"end":447.024,"text":"跟委員說我不是認為沒有你可以說你回去再去考量我們可以跟原民會再來了解他這個數字統計數字背後是不是有什麼地方應該要多做考慮然後在這個考慮下我們既有的機制跟既有的這個法條包括特定對象的部分我們怎麼來去協助我們很願意來去檢視這些事情對但我們會要去跟原民會一起來討論"},{"start":448.184,"end":473.184,"text":"不過那個部長現在不是延民會議是你們主動把這個我問過延民會當初你們是不是有同意把這個這個授權就業服務法46條所授權訂定的這個資格及審查標準他們說當初他們也反對啊但是就當然不是你部長任內啦就這樣啊所以這個部分"},{"start":475.748,"end":498.4,"text":"我都不反對外勞進來我們是確實是需要但是不要把原住民的保障條款給刪除回去好好的去評估我們再思考一下能夠再把它回復我只有沒有沒有別的要求只是要求把它回復而已好不好謝謝謝謝好謝謝接下來請"}]}},{"id":"165324","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165324","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3e05be6a3e0a821048abc180ec3481d0285b487800f27653074376f4625cb93f75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"13:05:45 - 13:17:57","影片長度":"00:12:12","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T13:05:45+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T13:17:57+08:00","duration":732,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":14.020343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.05409375,"end":14.138468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.138468750000001,"end":15.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.285968750000002,"end":16.011593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.011593750000003,"end":16.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16.36596875,"end":18.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.03659375,"end":20.027843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.44159375,"end":18.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18.50909375,"end":18.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.63971875,"end":19.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.027843750000002,"end":23.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.15409375,"end":22.609718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.53784375,"end":24.870968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.887843750000002,"end":25.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.292843750000003,"end":26.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.96346875,"end":30.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.74346875,"end":32.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.03596875000002,"end":215.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.49596875,"end":238.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":244.00971875000002,"end":247.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.24534375000002,"end":249.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.72159375,"end":265.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.23409375,"end":267.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.02721875000003,"end":274.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.46596875,"end":267.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":274.97534375000004,"end":278.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.78471875,"end":280.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":281.86034375,"end":284.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":284.62784375,"end":299.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":299.20784375,"end":303.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":304.40534375000004,"end":310.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.90221875000003,"end":315.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.35284375000003,"end":339.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":340.16346875000005,"end":346.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.54221875,"end":359.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":360.21096875,"end":394.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.80971875,"end":364.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.10846875000004,"end":368.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.75409375000004,"end":395.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.39096875,"end":403.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":405.33471875000004,"end":406.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":407.17409375000005,"end":408.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":408.01784375000005,"end":408.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":409.13159375000004,"end":419.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.96096875,"end":422.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":422.39534375000005,"end":428.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":428.92596875000004,"end":444.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":445.44659375000003,"end":446.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":447.58971875000003,"end":451.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.43346875000003,"end":449.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":452.01096875,"end":463.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":463.53659375,"end":468.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.03346875000005,"end":473.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":474.06659375000004,"end":479.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":479.88846875,"end":503.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":503.49659375000005,"end":504.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":505.03221875,"end":505.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":505.85909375000006,"end":531.7622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.67221875,"end":516.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":531.8803437500001,"end":546.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":546.6797187500001,"end":555.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":556.3659687500001,"end":558.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":558.52596875,"end":560.7703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":561.1753437500001,"end":576.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":577.0715937500001,"end":578.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":579.4509687500001,"end":586.7747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.1259687500001,"end":581.6784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":587.80409375,"end":590.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":591.43221875,"end":599.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":600.4265937499999,"end":607.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":607.90221875,"end":608.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":608.9822187500001,"end":637.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":638.0915937500001,"end":638.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":639.72846875,"end":646.0734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.0772187499999,"end":651.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":651.0347187500001,"end":658.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.08409375,"end":660.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":661.1259687500001,"end":664.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":664.5178437500001,"end":675.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":669.51284375,"end":669.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":675.30096875,"end":680.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":681.32534375,"end":682.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.9622187500001,"end":692.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":683.5190937500001,"end":684.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":692.8172187499999,"end":693.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":693.4922187500001,"end":693.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":693.7453437500001,"end":702.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":695.4834687500002,"end":696.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":702.14909375,"end":703.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":705.0515937499999,"end":728.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.37784375,"end":723.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.1328437500001,"end":725.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.6472187500001,"end":727.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.73159375,"end":728.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.11971875,"end":728.3897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":728.5078437500001,"end":729.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.51596875,"end":731.96721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.024,"end":5.186,"text":"好 休息一下休息三分鐘"},{"start":27.332,"end":29.557,"text":"感謝感謝來了來了剛好跟大家斥展"},{"start":211.087,"end":237.734,"text":"好 我们继续会议请中嘉宾委员质询好忙"},{"start":244.539,"end":264.378,"text":"謝謝主席的包容那現在有請我們運動部政次長好 請政次長委員好次長好我們要兼顧職業運動跟全民的健康那怎麼樣去讓非都會地區的產業有一個共享的基地來請教一下部長 次長你知道過去台灣的運動中心總共65間哪裡比較多"},{"start":266.897,"end":278.205,"text":"6度比較多6度比較多嘛非度的部分很少啦都是個位數對不對是那這樣資源分佈公平嗎什麼原因呢為什麼都會在都會地區運動中心在那裡呢往下看為什麼"},{"start":282.049,"end":310.227,"text":"來 我覺得你不要為難其實我也很清楚 你看那麼多的運動中心大半三分之二在都會地區都會地區還有那些倭俊那些什麼因為都會地區的人上班族時間少 工作忙碌那他只能在有限的空間用很短的時間去滿足他運動的需求所以我們的目前在全國各地的運動中心大概是鎖定這樣的運動人口對不對那非都會地區我們空間廣闊而且我們的人口一半很多都是退休的人他也不太需要"},{"start":311.107,"end":336.285,"text":"用特定的下班後的時間所以什麼地方都可以運動是不是這樣子市長是不是這樣稍微我們會希望非都會區蓋小型但不是都不要OK我了解我猜想你會這樣回答但是我們來思考一下到底非都會地區下一頁我們這樣怎麼評估非都會地區運動場館的需求其實相對非都會地區場地大有些項目譬如說職業運動來講棒球是不是應該在都會地區"},{"start":340.205,"end":358.815,"text":"棒球場應該在都會地區嘛因為它有大量的觀眾嘛是那足球場會不會要在都會去不會嘛因為足球在台灣不是觀賞運動它是我們培養選手比賽的地方嘛所以目前運動部在這些場館的規劃會根據運動項目它的市場的區隔去做適當的配置對不對"},{"start":360.233,"end":375.85,"text":"包委員這個是雞生蛋蛋生雞的問題啦沒有錯我可以接受說我們不需要每一個縣市什麼館都有譬如說屏東我們想爭取一個棒球場有了那我們可能覺得足球場在屏東比較適合因為人才在我們那裡"},{"start":377.031,"end":403.511,"text":"那外地來的比賽到我們那裡所以我們希望運動部持續支持類似這樣的一個運動賽事的場館分佈在區隔在不同的地區不是大家都有是不是這樣OK那我們往下看好所以你來看一下你知道這個球場這是什麼這個球隊很有名看衣服的顏色中信兄弟我們從小就是看著這個黃色的棒球制服你覺得這個球場在哪裡"},{"start":405.359,"end":427.392,"text":"在屏東喔你被你看到了它是在屏東延浦喔它是中信特別設了一個春訓基地你覺得我們職棒是不是需要這樣的一個春訓基地為什麼設在屏東因為屏東溫暖啊我們在北迴縣以南啊你知道嗎在屏東設春訓基地的還有哪些地方嗎還有東訓的"},{"start":429.013,"end":442.677,"text":"有韓國跟日本的職棒都跑來屏東設東訓基地所以其實運動產業在台灣不是只有觀賞人口不是只有運動人口還有產業的需求對不對請問一下我們國訓中心在嗎職業運動員 頂尖運動員最怕什麼國訓中心知道嗎"},{"start":448.482,"end":467.989,"text":"職業運動員頂尖運動員最怕受傷受傷之後要怎樣要復健要復健是不是要這樣子你看美國的美式足球他們每次比賽完趕快就怎樣需要用冰敷水療然後他們需要運動防護員需要一些專業的服務對不對好 除了職業運動員頂尖運動員之外哪些人經常去復健我告訴你在我們政科超過65歲常常去復健"},{"start":474.13,"end":502.696,"text":"一天到晚我們那個復健診所排了一堆人紅外線超音波市長你有沒有做過我是物理治療師所以我知道所以你知道嗎所以你知道所以你有沒有發現這些運動治療好像媒合了兩種人口一種是頂尖的職業的運動人口一種是什麼退休的養生的人口所以呢我們往下看所以你看看像民間的一般坊間的復健中心診所有沒有可能設水療的水療池"},{"start":503.581,"end":531.248,"text":"有沒有可能有啊很少啦有啦你看過哪些診所有設水療池的你看看渥郡有沒有設溫水用池可能你的水療池是大型的對我講的是小的可以走路的可以走路的那沒有那有沒有看過那個渥郡有設溫水用池很少因為民間的投資首先它的規模的限制場地的限制它有些項目不會做但是呢如果在我們非都的地區你設個水療池"},{"start":532.388,"end":553.907,"text":"不只是頂尖職業運動員可以用他們來這邊訓練復健可以用連鄉間的這些長輩高齡人口也可以用而且你看看高雄屏東地區是不是這麼多科系你說你是物理治療師是不是這樣這些的人才資源相當的豐富所以說我們往下給市長建議我們來弄一些共享式的運動產業設施基地"},{"start":556.397,"end":578.049,"text":"屏東可以作為日韓職業運動團隊職業棒球隊的東訓基地我們在這裡也可以設置這些具有滿足休閒復健保健這樣的一個場館而且這樣場館它能夠自己維持你覺得屏東還需要一座運動中心嗎屏東現在有一座你覺得有沒有第二座的空間"},{"start":579.608,"end":598.129,"text":"不確定 我跟你講我是比較保守啦我常常去的那一家 唯一的一家常常換人啦 為什麼常常換人經營因為呢 付錢的 付費的人口比較少啦所以說 我最後一頁所以運動部是否支持在都會地區打造這種共享式的運動產業設施基地"},{"start":600.475,"end":621.22,"text":"原則上我們是覺得這個想法很不錯很不錯好那我最後來給你看一下這個就是一個未來的很下一頁最後一頁你看看在我們非都會地區我們可以弄一個這樣的運動場館但是不需要是跟都會的運動中心一樣因為沒有那麼多的上班族來使用但是它的設施如果夠好"},{"start":622.06,"end":645.943,"text":"他可以分別照顧高齡者跟職業運動員的需求在這裡面如果有復健 水療這些設施其實這樣的設施可以由附近的大學來支援他的人才也可以提供當地的相關機構來對外營運所以最後的結論請運動部來評估共享式運動產業設施來考量在台灣的分布好不好 可不可以"},{"start":649.11,"end":657.784,"text":"報告委員這個部分通常我們是由縣市政府來提但是你們要有一個綱領啊縣市政府才知道有一個遊戲櫃才能提啊還是你就是說我們屏東趕快來提"},{"start":659.828,"end":680.567,"text":"我也可以马上提啊对但是我们目前没有这方面的经费所以我才要所以说我才说我知道没有运动中心的经费了因为运动中心的计划已经执行完毕了是所以我说不是在一个新的运动中心我们去思考台湾运动产业的发展它应该针对可以结合商业的具有商业这个回收率的"},{"start":681.828,"end":695.095,"text":"自償性的設施包委我們在規劃運動部的時候在產業科技師我們就有提到輔導縣市政府運動產業聚落這件事情產業什麼師產業科技師我們針對各縣市他就提出一些運動產業聚落運動產業園區這樣的概念我們的確是有想要去輔導有嗎 產業科技是在嗎"},{"start":705.097,"end":729.127,"text":"好那這樣好我知道了我們認得我們很熟那我就直接跳過次長直接來詢問好不好那請次長指示要支持向非都地區發展運動產業怎麼樣配合運動部的規劃我們來提出符合地方需求用能滿足我們全國運動產業發展的這些設施共享基地可以嗎可以包委員給我們三個月時間好不好可以可以三個月我很寬容的三個月有就好謝謝好謝謝鍾嘉賓委員"}]}},{"id":"165323","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165323","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3f6518cbb8e762f2ab62a46119727b9b985b487800f2765301257d1c12132fb9b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"12:57:48 - 13:06:27","影片長度":"00:08:39","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T12:57:48+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T13:06:27+08:00","duration":519,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.85284375,"end":6.966593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.01721875,"end":7.9790937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.99471875,"end":27.149093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.53721875,"end":35.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.282843750000005,"end":39.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.53534375,"end":54.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.74784375,"end":57.203468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.743468750000005,"end":58.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.03034375,"end":58.806593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.806593750000005,"end":59.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.025968750000004,"end":59.211593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.312843750000006,"end":62.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.83971875,"end":70.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.15909375000001,"end":75.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.47034375,"end":79.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.23784375000001,"end":81.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.23346875,"end":81.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.51596875,"end":83.22471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.78159375,"end":87.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.62471875,"end":90.39659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.54846875000001,"end":107.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.14909375,"end":111.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.26659375000001,"end":113.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.95409375000001,"end":114.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.65846875000001,"end":117.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.53159375000001,"end":117.75096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.12221875,"end":126.37409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.57659375000001,"end":126.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.11659375,"end":127.70721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.85909375000001,"end":127.87596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.87596875000001,"end":128.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.01096875000002,"end":130.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.59284375000001,"end":131.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.18346875,"end":156.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.77846875,"end":158.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.29721875,"end":180.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.30659375000002,"end":198.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.14346875,"end":204.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.77534375000002,"end":207.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.04909375000003,"end":211.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.13721875000002,"end":230.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.86846875,"end":249.51096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.96659375000002,"end":250.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.38846875000002,"end":250.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.48971875,"end":250.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.52346875,"end":250.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.70909375000002,"end":250.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.96221875,"end":263.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.62034375000002,"end":251.92409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.40346875,"end":301.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.16096875,"end":310.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.19409375000004,"end":306.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.56471875,"end":320.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.61346875000004,"end":325.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.88721875000005,"end":330.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.39284375,"end":336.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.58659375,"end":332.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.12221875,"end":334.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.11784375,"end":335.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.97846875000005,"end":336.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.12596875,"end":352.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.01596875,"end":339.35346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.65096875,"end":354.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.18659375000004,"end":357.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.76409375000003,"end":365.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.47221875,"end":362.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.18909375000004,"end":365.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.32409375000003,"end":365.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.42534375,"end":365.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.44221875000005,"end":365.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.77971875000003,"end":399.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.32721875000004,"end":401.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.66846875000005,"end":411.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.78096875,"end":416.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.37096875000003,"end":416.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.38784375,"end":433.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.47221875,"end":416.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.94221875000005,"end":440.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.78909375,"end":441.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.29534375000003,"end":441.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.54846875000004,"end":444.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.66659375,"end":442.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.31596875,"end":481.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.77409375,"end":487.75221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.38096875,"end":490.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.83221875000004,"end":500.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.00846875,"end":495.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.72909375,"end":514.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.7522187500001,"end":514.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.4309687500001,"end":519.5615937499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.091,"end":32.538,"text":"是有請部長來有請部長各位好好新的一年要到了那部長我之前我有詢問說關於我們原住民的那個植栽的風險之前我們在看的時候是植栽風險就高了16倍因為這樣看的話3.54這是我們原住民的"},{"start":33.118,"end":53.837,"text":"一般國人的話是0.221那死亡率是全國的6倍也就是說我上次有詢問我們的何部長說能不能提供一個所謂的我們的死亡類別或者說分析它的形成的原因有助於我們以後預防它的發生所以有在做這方面的分析或者是說進度嗎"},{"start":59.76,"end":75.508,"text":"我們勞工的職災死亡個案分析因為我們知道現在我們的死亡率是高於一般國人的6倍我們職災風險是16倍所以在去年的時候我有請勞動部提供我們這方面的一個資訊給我可是到現在還沒有看到"},{"start":77.469,"end":86.033,"text":"我們就把這資訊趕快提供給委員一個禮拜內可以好謝謝那其實常常會發生就是說這個"},{"start":88.683,"end":112.369,"text":"我們的勞工是因為墜落或者是層層轉包這些營造業我們會發現說去找這些真正的老闆的時候其實找不到是這個方面的一個機率有沒有變少因為我覺得去年我們在詢問的時候很像責任歸屬常常都會實際找不到應該要負責的老闆所以這方面你們有在做追蹤嗎對"},{"start":115.697,"end":129.963,"text":"這也是這次修法的重點那我想知道說這方面比如說這個轉包的責任戀你被勒令停工的這一年裡面有實際有停工的案例嗎有有嗎當然也希望能夠一併報給我好嗎當然好"},{"start":131.764,"end":158.342,"text":"那就是我們現在有在推我們的原住民的降災或是減災的一個專案比如說你們引進了什麼現代科技 科技減災的工作坊我有看到你們所做的努力可是我想知道說這些真正的智慧科技防災的這個部分你要怎麼落實在部落或是非典型僱用的這些中小型包商所僱用的原住民勞工你要怎麼實際應用上 你有沒有想到"},{"start":159.752,"end":179.287,"text":"這個智慧防災的做法是現在業界在針對職安的問題非常重要的部分甚至很多還運用AI來去做相關的風險評估跟決策當然他可能不一定說特別針對原住民族的這個族人的勞工那他當然就是相關的勞工都希望能夠有幫忙"},{"start":180.736,"end":204.23,"text":"對當然就是說我們就智慧工地科技減債這個部分是很值得肯定不過我希望有一些減債的指標你不論是從定性或是定量這個方面來做一些指標比如說呢如果是從定量的話我們來看你重大職災死亡人數的減少率你應該說2030年或者說兩幾年之內我們可以把這個死亡率從原本是博人的六倍能不能"},{"start":205.35,"end":229.195,"text":"減為國人的一倍兩倍這樣至少要讓原住民的勞工說政府有在做這方面的努力跟我們說明比方說舉例來說我們的數字看到112年這個重大植栽死亡的統計在營建工程的部分原住民是死亡是13位那今年一直到今年的現在10月底目前的數字是7位其實可以看得到一些改善的"},{"start":229.795,"end":249.236,"text":"改善的幅度因為我看到的是整體性的比如說你們的報告裡面在111年的策略裡面看到說希望兩年內能夠減少10%那我希望這個原住民因為是高高於國人六倍的話是不是在標準會可以定的更高讓我們的安全性可以顧及我們所有的原住民勞工可以嗎"},{"start":250.097,"end":276.953,"text":"我跟文說明我們其實這次修職安法也包括接下來會希望能夠提出一個在職災上面的減災的計畫其實就是希望全面性的把這個職災的風險給降低我希望有定性的也有定量的所以這個部分希望你們再多做努力然後第二個主題就是說我在去年有發現一個個案就是在他的賠償不公與單身者的一個保障的問題就是去年的10月17號的質詢"},{"start":278.334,"end":300.679,"text":"我看到有一個就是族人來陳情就說因為他沒有仔細清楚結果他勞保的死亡給付就是導致有天然之別可以有180萬然後如果有家屬或者是有婚姻的話是900萬在那個差別我是覺得說面對這些高風險單身非典型勞工這些保障能不能做一些這方面的改進"},{"start":302.66,"end":325.12,"text":"其實如果委員有相關的建議的話我們很願意來參考因為這個高風險的勞工當然是我們最希望能夠保護的一群就是常常是會發生在沒有結婚的或者是父母親已經不在結果沒有所謂的那個可以繼承的這些保險金的結果他的那個金額就非常低這是去年實際發生的案例在台中"},{"start":326.27,"end":353.065,"text":"跟委員報告 我也是在提到說勞工他死亡 他因為是單身有兄弟姊妹來領遺屬年金或者是津貼的時候可能不符合資格這個主要是因為我們大法官會議解釋549號的解釋認為說遺屬津貼是所得的替代所以他要避免遺屬生活無辜必須受被保險生前撫養"},{"start":354.686,"end":378.616,"text":"為條件他不是遺產所以我們有一定的條件就是說這個兄弟姐妹必須在生前受到被保險是撫養的人他才可以是受益人來請那最後一個問題就是說我們的執訓的資源錯位就是說我們可以發現我們的現在原住民的那個執訓類別大概就是餐飲業民宿啊職業駕駛美容美髮這些那我們一直"},{"start":379.036,"end":400.273,"text":"知道說我們目前的原住民勞工跟一般國人勞工平均的薪資差距在一萬元以上那我覺得說是不是我們可以給策略性的引導族人去受高薪之類的一個資訊比如說目前在推的利率人才風電維護 太陽能安裝這方面的專班計畫可以讓我們原住民勞工也可以進入這個職場"},{"start":403.776,"end":423.337,"text":"基本上這些職類基本上大家都沒有去做身份的設限當然我們也特別希望原住民的勞工如果要更大的投入我們也是很歡迎的你應該可以明訂一個名額比如說常常在我們的資訊裡面因為沒有這方面的一個名額所以就不會有"},{"start":424.277,"end":437.189,"text":"有人去受訓因為看到的類別裡面就是駕訓班美容美髮課 蒼蠅這方面的訓練就沒有這方面綠領人才其實我想我們很歡迎原住民的朋友一起來報名這些相關的課程包括綠領 風電"},{"start":439.871,"end":464.478,"text":"然後綠能相關的部分的確性質是比較高的我們在111年看到我們光復沙老部落它原名會運用了綜合發展基金貸款然後結合地方創生讓培訓落地然後轉換成為我們訓練走向就業的一個成功模式那我要講的就是說我們能不能就是勞動部這邊也可以結合我們"},{"start":465.078,"end":480.828,"text":"原民會然後就在地就業成功模式來推廣比如說他們成功的經驗我們就用這樣的方式來各個社區或者是部落來推廣讓實際我們的年輕人留在部落然後就業能夠真正落實在各個層面這樣"},{"start":482.833,"end":500.474,"text":"我們來看用什麼方式我想我們可能這部分會需要跟園民會一起來討論對 所以我希望能夠跨部會的對 這可能要跟園民會來討論因為園民會會更比我們更清楚知道原住民的需求這樣子好 那看哪些部分能夠跨部會一起來合作的我們當然願意盡量來去做參考"},{"start":500.734,"end":514.185,"text":"好 那希望部長就我們原罪名的死亡率齁能夠再多費心 是所謂的6倍還有現在勞工風險 勞安風險是16倍這個樣的一個差距希望在明年或者是近幾年能夠獲得實質的改善謝謝好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165326","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165326","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe38965b93c31c5496db62a46119727b9b985b487800f2765308b382dd59e615ff75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"13:06:33 - 13:17:07","影片長度":"00:10:34","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T13:06:33+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T13:17:07+08:00","duration":634,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.24096875,"end":9.008468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.898468750000003,"end":11.657843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.704093750000002,"end":13.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.25221875,"end":17.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.395343750000002,"end":26.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.03096875,"end":38.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.16846875,"end":38.252843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.438468750000006,"end":54.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.064718750000004,"end":58.806593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.570968750000006,"end":54.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.09784375,"end":58.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.85721875,"end":61.439093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.329718750000005,"end":76.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.71096875,"end":94.76721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.35346875,"end":102.15846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.83346875000001,"end":106.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.49534375,"end":106.83284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.28846875,"end":115.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.43909375000001,"end":130.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.07971875000001,"end":120.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.90659375000001,"end":121.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.17221875000001,"end":122.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.84221875000001,"end":159.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.20846875,"end":161.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.57096875000002,"end":175.63221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.37471875,"end":180.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.50471875000002,"end":183.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.35659375,"end":187.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.79909375000003,"end":191.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.86596875,"end":205.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.42909375000002,"end":207.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.72409375,"end":219.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.96284375000002,"end":231.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.26471875000001,"end":234.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.62721875000003,"end":238.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.54221875000002,"end":252.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.48971875,"end":251.63721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.48096875000002,"end":281.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.75909375000003,"end":283.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.81784375,"end":287.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.96909375,"end":306.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.43034375,"end":316.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.40346875,"end":318.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.69846875,"end":337.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.50721875,"end":329.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.08784375000005,"end":346.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.25534375,"end":346.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.64346875,"end":346.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.72784375000003,"end":346.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.74471875,"end":346.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.77846875,"end":346.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.96409375,"end":347.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.03159375,"end":355.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.03971875,"end":350.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.94159375000004,"end":360.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.00409375000004,"end":366.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.97784375000003,"end":392.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.09846875000005,"end":378.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.23534375,"end":419.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.67846875000004,"end":427.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.85846875000004,"end":432.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.56659375000004,"end":437.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.26221875000005,"end":437.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.88659375000003,"end":448.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.05096875000004,"end":440.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.99471875,"end":448.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.65284375000005,"end":449.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.68659375000004,"end":448.93971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.96909375,"end":454.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.27284375000005,"end":450.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.98534375,"end":455.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.74034375,"end":462.47346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.46596875,"end":456.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.62534375,"end":472.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.15971875,"end":477.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.33159375,"end":481.35659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.71096875,"end":495.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.68846875,"end":491.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.97034375000004,"end":507.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.32721875000004,"end":521.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.3503437500001,"end":527.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.96159375,"end":526.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.62784375,"end":540.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.9484687500001,"end":528.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.98034375,"end":594.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.59221875,"end":602.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.6372187500001,"end":606.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.9740937500001,"end":627.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.68346875,"end":631.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.99971875,"end":632.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.24846875,"end":635.9653437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.457,"end":25.896,"text":"謝主席有請部長來 請部長部長要喝水嗎不用喔可以先用餐沒關係錄影好好 部長好部長 長榮航空空服員過世至今一個月了有關勞工請假這個不利的對待目前有沒有什麼進度"},{"start":27.285,"end":53.41,"text":"我們在禮拜一的時候也才找了包括勞資團體各方那也包括學者那來針對這部分有一個座談會來諮詢大家的意見好有進度都是最好的那我想不只航空業醫療產業也有相關的聲音我要求在這一次呢我們希望部長對於航空醫療相關工會的聲音啊要認真處理包括昨天你說的這個相關的一些溝通協調"},{"start":54.591,"end":75.892,"text":"禮拜一的時候包括航空業的工會包括醫療業的工會都有一起謝謝你謝謝我想也要再跟部長再次強調就是改革啊要避免流於形式避免讓這個勞工呢再次的有這樣子的一個相關的變相懲罰這部分我們會持續的追蹤第二個部長上個月月底啊"},{"start":76.812,"end":94.649,"text":"行政院通過跨國勞動力的精進方案正式宣告服務業移工要開放那目前規劃是旅宿服務還有這個商港碼頭貨物卸裝集散的工作想請問一下為什麼初期只有這兩類為什麼其他類沒有"},{"start":96.697,"end":114.83,"text":"第一個因為當然各個行業別我們都在都需要評估也需要目的事業主管機關來提出那在上崗碼頭的確是我們看到上崗碼頭他其實他的缺工的問題很嚴重那尤其是"},{"start":116.031,"end":140.467,"text":"他的這個行業別裡面現在真的那個年紀都很大那他們甚至都跟我說他們其實已經要退休的勞工還要去想辦法去拜託他不要退休那真的年輕人比較不願意有這樣子的困境我都知道但是我現在要講的就是說三港碼頭那個部分那個沒有話說啦但是很多類型的也都一直在努力希望他們能夠爭取這個部分的開放當然"},{"start":141.347,"end":161.479,"text":"能不能全面開放當然不行我們一定要最審慎的評估我想這是勞動部的一個工作但是目前我想很多人也都會想說為什麼其他類不行所以我想加速的這個評估在沒有影響到國人的工作權的情況之下能夠有更多的好消息但今天我想跟你探討的是呂素月為主呂素月到底是缺工"},{"start":162.725,"end":183.127,"text":"還是缺便宜的勞工我想跟你分享一下我從111上面找到的幾個案件第一個我們看到部長麻煩你看一下曾飯店的工作公務人員喔他這個是公務修水電消防空調電信最好具備水電相關的證照那薪資是三萬二到三萬六"},{"start":184.451,"end":205.336,"text":"那真空調水電的工程維護技術員他不是房屋喔剛剛講的是公務不是房屋喔那現在的工程的技術人員啊飯店的建築物空調水電啊然後機電設施的維修啊各項設備的維護保養修繕水電拉線配管配電等施工工作定體檢查有沒有異常狀況33,000到38,000"},{"start":208.866,"end":231.449,"text":"還有安全部的工作人員顧公司的財產安全啊顧員工旅客安全啊要會消防設備跟監視器的一個狀況通報排除啊三萬二到三萬四所以我要跟部長分享部長你覺得有水電證照的飯店公務人員起碼要多少起薪你覺得才符合他這樣子的一個證照跟他相關的一個專業你覺得呢"},{"start":232.335,"end":251.601,"text":"我很難在這邊就講一個數字很難再講但是你看到剛剛那個數字你有沒有覺得好像偏低第一個當然我們會非常非常留意產業裡面行業裡面這個低薪的狀況所以這也是為什麼我們在這次的制度的設計裡面我們設計應該要先加薪必須加薪"},{"start":253.621,"end":281.12,"text":"但是我要講就是說我知道你們的設計的初衷是利益良善但是我要講就是說你看他們現在加薪了2000剛剛說的33000有的是35000加薪2000我覺得在這個部分上實務上還是有一點差距所以我想勞動部做了哪些努力現在有沒有幫忙做一些媒合的狀況我想希望說在這個部分上工作的媒合就現在來看我們先不講移工開放"},{"start":281.86,"end":305.79,"text":"工作的媒合勞動部有沒有做當然有然後而且我們對呂樹業工作的媒合也是我們希望盡量來來來協助的但是我必須坦白講媒合應該是做的有做但沒有做到確實做到非常的落實甚至做得很好如果媒合不好的話是因為薪水差所以找不到人那開放移工以後呢飯店的薪資會不會就卡死在這個低價位"},{"start":306.61,"end":329.025,"text":"那麼正在找飯店從事類的工作的國人比如說公務 剛剛說的房務可能薪水會比剛剛舉例的兩間飯店高一點會不會移工一開放 他們就沒工作了跟委員說明 目前我們的確看到第一個 飯店業確實相對在職缺調查裡面他們一個職缺能夠找到人的時間真的是比其他行業來的長而且長很多"},{"start":330.206,"end":354.204,"text":"所以的確他們缺工的狀況是比較嚴重的第二個是我們其實這次的設計裡面我們也有包括設計進去我們是用技術人力的方式來開放也就是用技術人力的方式來開放的時候他其實會要有他的薪資門檻的底線技術人力就是剛剛說的公務也是技術人力之一但是我說技術人力的部分是因為他不能夠用這個最低薪資來評估"},{"start":356.005,"end":377.418,"text":"所以這是為什麼我們要設用技術能力的角度來開放就是希望我們有一個薪資門檻的工具可以來做這個相關薪資上面的調教我要這樣講這個案例我希望只是個案不是通案那當然我們也不要拿這個單一事件來做整體的一個評估但我要講的是今天我們要如何保障國人的工作權"},{"start":378.298,"end":392.631,"text":"不只如此我們還有很多是以建教合作在飯店所謂假實習真打工轉個彎就進來了相關的勞動檢查有沒有進行違規的比例這部分可以跟我分享一下嗎"},{"start":393.274,"end":416.452,"text":"跟委員說明的確現在會有一些實習生尤其是外國的實習生目前是目的世界主管機關相關的要點所以我們其實現在也在跟交通部跟經濟部在討論針對這些這個外國學籍的實習生如果他的這個假設他的實際實際上他就是在進行工作的話怎麼把他的勞動條件應該盡量的保障給拉起來"},{"start":416.932,"end":427.484,"text":"目前我們也跟這些目的世界主管就要討論這個我想最後那個勞動檢查假實習真打工這部分這個檢查的一個進行狀態還有他的比例為何相關數據可不可以提供給我"},{"start":429.942,"end":449.31,"text":"呃其實他就我們的勞動檢查來說不是因為實習這件事情的主管坦白說是在教育部沒有錯然後但是你們勞動但是如果是工作型實習的話當然我們認為我們就要比較一起來協助目的是主管機關來來檢視他的工作的條件如果是工作型啊所以你們有勞動檢查嗎"},{"start":450.33,"end":476.387,"text":"那有勞動勞檢的時候一定有數據嘛數據可不可以回扣提供給我我們有跟教育部的聯合檢查好再麻煩數據給我謝謝那部長我也要這個在這邊再一次的跟你關心喔早產兒的一個照顧啊照顧的問題呢我過去就很關心這個輕職假然後在今年6月18的時候我有跟部長說早產兒的醫療照顧假部長五個月過去了你答應我會有收集早產兒罕病家庭的一個實際照顧需求請問嗎現在呢"},{"start":479.363,"end":506.455,"text":"早產兒的需求其實我們現在其實我們也做了這個育嬰留庭的彈性的措施現在可以以日來請休所以如果3歲以下的小孩的話這個我都知道他其實現在以日請休每個勞工可以有30天雙親加起來可以有60天但我要講的是說部長我有提出性別平等法工作的這個20條修正草案明定受僱者子女未滿6歲有早療或罕病的健康需求"},{"start":507.515,"end":527.288,"text":"能夠申請醫療照顧假全年以18日為限喔這不記錄家庭照顧假的天數喔部長當時你也有說回去會想一想喔那目前你有沒有什麼想法還是你就是覺得就以剛剛所說的留職停薪啊家庭照顧假來跟我說現在留職停薪如果可以以日來請求的話他其實已經相對可以很頂過彈性而且他還是有薪水的"},{"start":527.668,"end":556.338,"text":"我知道那第二個是說當然我們現在也是希望這個相關的制度上路可以有一個跟企業的調適期那未來是不是要擴大放寬我覺得當然這個我們也不我們可以開放的討論我想我們不是漫無目的的無止境的一直放寬一直放寬但是大家要知道部長我們生孩子真的是有這一個家庭照顧的需求可是現在問題是他是寒病兒他是早療需求他真的比較有困境"},{"start":556.838,"end":573.613,"text":"更為困境所以雖然育嬰留職停薪現在的改進喔以及家庭照顧假新資2025年1月1號開始上市放寬了一個申請的方式每日就是你說的好但是呢但是這些措施對於早產家庭我相信絕對不足一定不足"},{"start":574.233,"end":601.299,"text":"百分之百不足 充其量喔整個勞動部的強調請假方式更具彈性但是以協助照顧臨時或短期需求我覺得部長對於早療或罕病的一個家庭獨立來設置所謂的醫療照顧假拜託你可不可以再給我更具體的一個演繹 謝謝我想這個演繹可能我們要找衛福部來討論因為這涉及到可能特殊需求的小孩那他的實際的狀況"},{"start":602.719,"end":626.955,"text":"那衛福部這邊可能 我們也聽一聽衛福部他們這部分的看法我最後30秒 這些早產兒的家庭真的是不夠因為什麼 他們的次數 早療的時段是有限定的甚至有限定路程有的是跨縣市才能夠到那邊去進行早療並不是早療的這個點很多 當然這是衛福部的問題可是我要講的是 現況是這樣 我們要怎麼去支持他們這部分拜託一下"},{"start":630.731,"end":635.64,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請林德烏委員 林德烏委員"}]}},{"id":"165325","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165325","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3a975b474117d149b8abc180ec3481d0285b487800f276530058d39ead7a38cca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"13:18:38 - 13:23:12","影片長度":"00:04:34","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T13:18:38+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T13:23:12+08:00","duration":274,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.4697187500000001,"end":1.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.77284375,"end":4.7897187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.7897187500000005,"end":5.177843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.177843750000001,"end":5.228468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.228468750000001,"end":5.312843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.414093750000001,"end":5.970968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.4772187500000005,"end":50.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.88221875,"end":7.185968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.805968750000002,"end":9.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.330968750000004,"end":56.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.98409375000001,"end":58.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.502843750000004,"end":62.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.85659375,"end":63.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.27409375,"end":69.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.40034375,"end":66.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.44659375,"end":78.55034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.43346875,"end":71.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.60096875,"end":81.72284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.88784375,"end":79.00596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.10721875,"end":79.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.06471875000001,"end":86.38034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.53221875,"end":98.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.05346875000001,"end":99.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.71159375,"end":101.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.29784375000001,"end":102.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.32721875,"end":120.11346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.37909375000001,"end":125.12534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.76659375000001,"end":134.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.27159375000002,"end":157.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.61096875,"end":150.30284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.09596875,"end":151.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.57596875000002,"end":158.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.43659375000001,"end":160.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.68096875,"end":170.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.04221875000002,"end":171.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.24034375000002,"end":190.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.85346875000002,"end":213.14534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.38159375,"end":218.57909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.61284375000002,"end":219.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.18221875,"end":236.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.93909375,"end":239.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.49534375000002,"end":242.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.96346875,"end":253.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.65096875,"end":245.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.54846875,"end":253.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.22346875000002,"end":264.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.80096875000004,"end":256.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.25659375000004,"end":257.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.65221875000003,"end":270.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.92534375,"end":271.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.15721875,"end":272.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.19909375000003,"end":275.29596875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.951,"end":22.644,"text":"請鄭市長我也好市長好那我今天有關原住民的問題來就教大概就是我們看到了我們115年的稅出計畫提要運動部的預算是214億元其中國家運動推展工作計畫培育原住民族學生運動人才的委辦費"},{"start":23.584,"end":50.305,"text":"只有1400万元占整体不到就是0.32%就算把地方补助与运动发展基金整体算进来原住民的相关的运动人才培育教练聘用的经费大概是2.28亿元也就是占了所有的经费里面的大概1%左右所以说我想请问次长这样的一个预算估比占比你认为对原住民人才的产权培育是否足够"},{"start":51.377,"end":74.836,"text":"包委員這部分其實牽涉到蠻多的私塾所以他可能在呈現方面不見得就專屬原住民但是原住民的選手或是民眾或一些組織都是可以一起來申請的所以這部分我沒有辦法完全明確回答我們看到這個占比確實是低的然後我看到一些項目還集中在壘球或者是棒球"},{"start":75.276,"end":97.992,"text":"那我覺得說就像田徑、拳擊、擠重、射箭這些就沒有辦法長期的但是這些運動種類裡面很多原住民他們在分散的各個學校其實我們都還是有補助啊所以就剛才的一個大概占比例0.32%我希望能夠看看有沒有一個你們的規劃或者說作為年度的一個績效指標能夠進步到0.5%或者是1%左右"},{"start":99.124,"end":118.409,"text":"可以嗎這個我們來努力那就是我們現在看到民原住民傳統的運動一直在推展不過我看到你們的計畫裡面學校就針對這一個項目是最高只有四萬塊的一個補助你認為就對支撐文化一個傳承或者說去聘請這樣的一個師資四萬元夠嗎"},{"start":121.445,"end":150.572,"text":"包委員坦白講我們希望縣市政府在這一塊能夠主動的參與那我們是來協助但應該不算是中央要全部來支持所以這部分我們是協助對 我希望說你們可以跟文化部或者園民會一起來跨部的整合推出一些專項的推展計畫你看那麼多的項目然後你說從師資從它的競賽規則這些都需要人力去弄這個我們會來努力"},{"start":151.152,"end":160.268,"text":"好 那我希望運動部有一個扶植原住民族傳統運動的一個具體指標可以嗎這個我們請全民族來努力OK"},{"start":160.751,"end":189.93,"text":"那最后有一个问题就是我在上个前一阵子然后说到我们屏东县的一个选手的一个家长的陈情那为什么会到到中央来这边来陈情你就知道说可能在地方的接受这些陈情的这个窗口真的是没有所以这个公平性当然就是就很值得去商榷那我们后来也有请我们屏东县的县政府的教育处来跟我们一起开会然后那其实其中最"},{"start":190.911,"end":218.958,"text":"最令人觉得困扰的就是说你这个真儿选拔这个标准能不能定定全国性的统一因为他会认为说这个是教练的一个职责在可是学生他明明就是第二名可是真正去比赛的是第三名这样的一个候补跟真儿的这样一个产生这样的一个问题的时候我觉得公平性就应该要站出来而不是把推给教练推给地方我觉得中央应该实质上有一个力量去去"},{"start":220.256,"end":239.777,"text":"辅导就是说去让县市政府说在你提供这些名额的时候要让家长跟学生觉得这个国家的比赛是公平的而不是用他们所谓的他比较有潜力或是比较主观的这些字眼让选手深受打击"},{"start":241.847,"end":270.431,"text":"包委員 這個真的是在地方執行的狀況那我們來詢問一下屏東的體育發展中心看到底是發生什麼事情我們來看怎麼協助他們好不好那請問選手的公平性來再發聲因為我覺得這個部分如果中央沒有去訂定同一個標準的話這些事情會一而再之而上發聲因為每個縣市其實他們有不同的狀況但是我們先來了解屏東的狀況好了好不好我們先來協助他們"},{"start":270.851,"end":272.196,"text":"好 謝謝市長好 謝謝委員好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"17025","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17025","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d456f1a8eac090e91ca74fc33bd46f677914d0d15f34b2c020cb96543b3d10cb45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢。（11月12日及13日二天一次會））","type":"Full","date":"2025-11-12","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2025-11-12T08:34:05+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:55:00+08:00","duration":8455,"影片長度":"02:20:55","委員發言時間":"08:34:05 - 10:55:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1831.2215937500002,"end":1834.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1836.06471875,"end":1836.8072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1838.5284687500002,"end":1840.6209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1841.11034375,"end":1846.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1846.3415937500001,"end":1851.4378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1851.7415937500002,"end":1856.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1857.29346875,"end":1860.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1860.7022187500002,"end":1866.2203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1866.70971875,"end":1871.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1871.6034687500003,"end":1877.7290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1878.0159687500002,"end":1879.5515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1879.7372187500002,"end":1882.7915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1883.1122187500002,"end":1886.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1886.80784375,"end":1892.6465937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1893.2203437500002,"end":1900.7972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1900.9659687500002,"end":1907.2940937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1907.63159375,"end":1908.8465937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1909.18409375,"end":1912.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1913.0990937500003,"end":1916.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1916.9465937500001,"end":1921.1990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1923.6290937500003,"end":1928.2528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1928.9109687500002,"end":1930.8178437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1931.1722187500002,"end":1933.5684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1933.92284375,"end":1938.9347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1940.11596875,"end":1943.5078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1944.5372187500002,"end":1945.5328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1946.73096875,"end":1951.3209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1952.9409687500001,"end":1953.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1953.7847187500001,"end":1956.3497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1956.70409375,"end":1959.2859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1959.7415937500002,"end":1961.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1963.3359687500001,"end":1965.1078437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1968.4997187500003,"end":1970.5415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1972.6172187500001,"end":1974.0853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1975.8740937500002,"end":1977.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1979.48534375,"end":1981.1390937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1982.9784687500003,"end":1984.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1986.4209687500002,"end":1988.1590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1990.03221875,"end":1991.3484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1991.8040937500002,"end":1992.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1994.53784375,"end":1996.4109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1998.2334687500002,"end":2000.4947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2002.9247187500002,"end":2005.1690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2007.05909375,"end":2008.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2011.14284375,"end":2013.9272187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2016.1209687500002,"end":2018.6859687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2021.3184687500002,"end":2030.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2041.7372187500002,"end":2044.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2044.6903437500002,"end":2046.2428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2046.7828437500002,"end":2051.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2051.8622187500005,"end":2052.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2053.1278437500005,"end":2055.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2055.97971875,"end":2056.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2056.90784375,"end":2060.7722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2060.9747187499997,"end":2066.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2067.99471875,"end":2069.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2070.1715937500003,"end":2073.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2074.2215937500005,"end":2084.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2085.27471875,"end":2089.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2090.26971875,"end":2093.9822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2094.03284375,"end":2095.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2095.82159375,"end":2101.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2101.2722187500003,"end":2102.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2103.1959687500002,"end":2109.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2110.2665937500005,"end":2111.3972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2111.8865937500004,"end":2114.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2114.94096875,"end":2118.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2119.09221875,"end":2122.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2123.07471875,"end":2128.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2128.5253437500005,"end":2133.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2133.18284375,"end":2138.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2138.90346875,"end":2144.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2144.59034375,"end":2149.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2150.29409375,"end":2150.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2151.8465937500005,"end":2155.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2155.67721875,"end":2162.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2162.35971875,"end":2166.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2167.47284375,"end":2176.6865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2177.00721875,"end":2182.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2182.8965937500006,"end":2197.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2197.6622187500006,"end":2204.8340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2205.57659375,"end":2206.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2206.72409375,"end":2231.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2231.71596875,"end":2233.3190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2233.65659375,"end":2238.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2238.6853437500004,"end":2239.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2239.98471875,"end":2241.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2242.04346875,"end":2242.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2243.3428437500006,"end":2246.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2246.24534375,"end":2252.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2253.2653437500003,"end":2273.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2273.48159375,"end":2282.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2282.96534375,"end":2286.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2286.2559687500006,"end":2290.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2290.77846875,"end":2309.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2311.88909375,"end":2320.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2320.7822187500005,"end":2326.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2326.5703437500006,"end":2333.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2333.4215937500003,"end":2351.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2351.8153437500005,"end":2352.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2352.5409687500005,"end":2371.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2372.57159375,"end":2384.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2384.6540937500004,"end":2390.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2391.7078437500004,"end":2406.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2407.11471875,"end":2414.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2415.5184687500005,"end":2418.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2418.5897187500004,"end":2421.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2421.52596875,"end":2423.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2423.6522187500004,"end":2438.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2438.4853437500005,"end":2449.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2450.93909375,"end":2456.3897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2457.19971875,"end":2462.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2462.98784375,"end":2463.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2464.00034375,"end":2505.7490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2506.44096875,"end":2517.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2517.4265937500004,"end":2540.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2542.16534375,"end":2549.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2549.99534375,"end":2564.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2564.28846875,"end":2565.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2565.92534375,"end":2573.9578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2574.04221875,"end":2580.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2580.69096875,"end":2584.9940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2585.1628437500003,"end":2628.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2629.91534375,"end":2638.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2638.3865937500004,"end":2639.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2639.61846875,"end":2661.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2661.50534375,"end":2663.4459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2663.7159687500007,"end":2664.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2664.57659375,"end":2667.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2668.06971875,"end":2670.4659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2670.6347187500005,"end":2673.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2673.85784375,"end":2675.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2675.79846875,"end":2676.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2676.7097187500003,"end":2691.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2691.8465937500005,"end":2705.9034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2706.20721875,"end":2719.4034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2721.6815937500005,"end":2727.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2728.27971875,"end":2740.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2740.2272187500002,"end":2754.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2754.73971875,"end":2773.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2773.5553437500002,"end":2774.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2775.04034375,"end":2779.5290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2779.7653437500003,"end":2781.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2782.04346875,"end":2808.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2808.48659375,"end":2812.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2813.56596875,"end":2814.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2814.34221875,"end":2820.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2820.53534375,"end":2821.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2821.5984687500004,"end":2823.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2823.48846875,"end":2824.4503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2824.8722187500007,"end":2829.6815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2829.90096875,"end":2850.1003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2850.26909375,"end":2871.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2872.18971875,"end":2883.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2884.2722187500003,"end":2891.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2891.91659375,"end":2895.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2895.20721875,"end":2901.0459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2901.31596875,"end":2904.2859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2904.4040937500004,"end":2941.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2943.18284375,"end":2963.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2963.38221875,"end":2964.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2964.69846875,"end":2979.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2980.51034375,"end":2983.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2984.1384687500004,"end":2989.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2989.28534375,"end":2990.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2990.5847187500003,"end":2999.5284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2999.8153437500005,"end":3010.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3011.22284375,"end":3014.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3014.49659375,"end":3020.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3020.57159375,"end":3021.2128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3021.4997187500003,"end":3021.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3021.9890937500004,"end":3022.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3023.17034375,"end":3027.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3027.33846875,"end":3033.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3034.0378437500003,"end":3038.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3038.71221875,"end":3045.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3045.5634687500005,"end":3061.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3063.07971875,"end":3072.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3072.46221875,"end":3079.8534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3079.95471875,"end":3089.6072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3090.19784375,"end":3093.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3094.0622187500003,"end":3105.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3107.47784375,"end":3109.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3110.3465937500005,"end":3111.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3111.4940937500005,"end":3124.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3125.02784375,"end":3128.7740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3128.87534375,"end":3141.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3141.88596875,"end":3144.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3144.92346875,"end":3145.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3145.8515937500006,"end":3150.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3150.44159375,"end":3163.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3163.3340937500006,"end":3164.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3164.5322187500005,"end":3168.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3168.3122187500003,"end":3171.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3172.7840937500005,"end":3175.4503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3175.6697187500004,"end":3192.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3192.34221875,"end":3201.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3203.2097187500003,"end":3211.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3212.1365937500004,"end":3214.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3214.9040937500004,"end":3218.2790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3218.44784375,"end":3224.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3232.8253437500007,"end":3235.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3236.7234687500004,"end":3237.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3243.76034375,"end":3286.3359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3286.6397187500006,"end":3309.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3309.3365937500002,"end":3309.3534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3309.80909375,"end":3310.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3310.23096875,"end":3310.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3310.2478437500004,"end":3310.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3310.83846875,"end":3310.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3310.9734687500004,"end":3314.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3314.92221875,"end":3315.1922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3315.1922187500004,"end":3318.3984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3315.2090937500006,"end":3315.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3318.53346875,"end":3340.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3340.7409687500003,"end":3424.2384687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3344.9765937500006,"end":3345.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3345.0440937500007,"end":3345.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3345.11159375,"end":3345.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3345.12846875,"end":3345.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3424.2890937500006,"end":3454.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3454.02284375,"end":3454.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3454.9678437500006,"end":3567.7097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3490.1015937500006,"end":3490.5234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3568.06409375,"end":3576.5353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3576.5690937500003,"end":3579.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3580.1297187500004,"end":3667.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3586.9472187500005,"end":3587.0147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3587.0147187500006,"end":3587.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3587.21721875,"end":3587.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3644.10284375,"end":3644.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3644.42346875,"end":3644.5584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3644.5584687500004,"end":3644.5753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3663.8634687500007,"end":3664.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3667.96409375,"end":3671.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3672.0984687500004,"end":3716.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3716.24346875,"end":3730.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3730.0303437500006,"end":3746.4159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3746.4159687500005,"end":3751.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3765.3328437500004,"end":3767.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3767.3915937500005,"end":3768.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3773.44971875,"end":3783.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3775.8290937500005,"end":3775.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3775.86284375,"end":3776.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3783.5240937500002,"end":3840.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3840.71346875,"end":3895.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3896.33346875,"end":4009.2272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3905.1759687500007,"end":3906.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3929.9822187500004,"end":3930.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3934.18409375,"end":3934.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3934.60596875,"end":3934.6228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3982.9528437500003,"end":3983.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3987.22221875,"end":3988.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4009.6659687500005,"end":4009.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4010.4928437500002,"end":4035.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4035.9909687500003,"end":4062.8728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4042.5553437500002,"end":4042.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4061.3203437500006,"end":4061.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4062.8728437500004,"end":4065.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4065.97784375,"end":4118.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4070.4665937500004,"end":4070.8884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4082.38034375,"end":4082.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4095.03659375,"end":4095.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4118.560343749999,"end":4144.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4123.8084687499995,"end":4124.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4124.382218750001,"end":4124.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4144.9697187500005,"end":4198.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4199.44221875,"end":4200.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4200.11721875,"end":4200.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4201.062218749999,"end":4204.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4207.440968749999,"end":4228.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4219.911593750001,"end":4220.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4228.669718749999,"end":4229.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4230.30659375,"end":4237.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4238.001593749999,"end":4239.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4239.638468749999,"end":4242.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4242.692843750001,"end":4248.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4248.9872187500005,"end":4249.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4250.607218749999,"end":4271.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4270.401593750001,"end":4279.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4279.868468750001,"end":4292.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4288.47471875,"end":4288.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4292.54159375,"end":4304.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4304.843468749999,"end":4329.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4328.654093749999,"end":4331.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4332.16409375,"end":4334.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4334.475968750001,"end":4338.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4335.99471875,"end":4340.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4340.280968749999,"end":4350.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4343.36909375,"end":4344.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4351.73909375,"end":4352.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4352.54909375,"end":4352.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4355.333468750001,"end":4357.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4363.872218750001,"end":4366.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4367.78721875,"end":4368.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4373.40659375,"end":4379.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4379.700968749999,"end":4384.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4385.387843750001,"end":4387.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4387.37909375,"end":4389.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4389.269093749999,"end":4392.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4391.429093750001,"end":4393.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4393.04909375,"end":4424.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4393.065968749999,"end":4393.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4425.53346875,"end":4442.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4443.184718750001,"end":4443.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4444.12971875,"end":4447.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4447.6903437500005,"end":4451.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4450.03596875,"end":4458.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4458.76034375,"end":4467.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4461.460343750001,"end":4462.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4465.05471875,"end":4465.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4467.029093749999,"end":4495.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4467.839093750001,"end":4471.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4472.715968750001,"end":4473.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4476.66471875,"end":4477.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4480.630343750001,"end":4481.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4481.72721875,"end":4482.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4494.53534375,"end":4497.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4496.526593750001,"end":4507.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4507.32659375,"end":4507.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4507.967843750001,"end":4510.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4510.1278437500005,"end":4510.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4510.296593749999,"end":4513.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4513.89096875,"end":4514.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4514.49846875,"end":4523.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4521.231593750001,"end":4521.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4523.17221875,"end":4533.314093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4533.314093749999,"end":4533.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4533.364718750001,"end":4533.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4533.38159375,"end":4534.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4534.46159375,"end":4534.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4534.90034375,"end":4535.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4535.710343750001,"end":4535.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4535.72721875,"end":4541.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4537.38096875,"end":4537.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4541.380343750001,"end":4541.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4541.39721875,"end":4541.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4541.41409375,"end":4543.017218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4543.017218749999,"end":4544.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4543.0340937500005,"end":4543.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4543.65846875,"end":4554.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4552.0115937499995,"end":4554.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4554.9647187499995,"end":4558.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4558.42409375,"end":4577.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4576.581593749999,"end":4585.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4579.770968750001,"end":4580.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4580.78346875,"end":4580.800343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4581.407843749999,"end":4581.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4584.39471875,"end":4585.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4585.592843750001,"end":4588.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4585.60971875,"end":4585.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4588.124093750001,"end":4594.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4594.18221875,"end":4596.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4594.637843750001,"end":4601.050343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4601.21909375,"end":4602.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4603.04159375,"end":4615.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4603.0584687499995,"end":4607.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4613.6053437499995,"end":4629.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4618.93784375,"end":4619.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4619.07284375,"end":4619.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4619.0897187499995,"end":4619.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4623.10596875,"end":4623.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4623.49409375,"end":4623.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4624.405343750001,"end":4624.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4625.519093749999,"end":4625.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4625.53596875,"end":4625.940968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4629.85596875,"end":4630.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4630.311593750001,"end":4630.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4630.41284375,"end":4630.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4630.59846875,"end":4630.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4630.61534375,"end":4632.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4630.682843750001,"end":4631.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4632.977843750001,"end":4637.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4637.87159375,"end":4649.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4649.58284375,"end":4649.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4649.83596875,"end":4653.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4654.257218750001,"end":4656.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4657.767218749999,"end":4658.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4658.948468750001,"end":4660.112843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4660.534718749999,"end":4669.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4666.27221875,"end":4681.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4673.25846875,"end":4673.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4678.8778437500005,"end":4678.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4678.94534375,"end":4679.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4679.68784375,"end":4681.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4681.29096875,"end":4681.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4681.358468750001,"end":4681.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4681.442843750001,"end":4681.628468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4681.628468749999,"end":4681.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4681.64534375,"end":4681.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4681.8309687500005,"end":4722.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4719.44534375,"end":4719.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4722.11159375,"end":4722.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4722.80346875,"end":4723.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4723.5965937500005,"end":4723.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4723.967843750001,"end":4724.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4724.03534375,"end":4724.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4724.06909375,"end":4724.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4724.11971875,"end":4726.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4724.22096875,"end":4724.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4726.09409375,"end":4729.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4728.405968749999,"end":4729.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4729.452218750001,"end":4729.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4729.6884687500005,"end":4729.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4729.70534375,"end":4729.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4729.722218750001,"end":4729.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4729.772843750001,"end":4736.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4730.26221875,"end":4732.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4732.5740937499995,"end":4733.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4737.29909375,"end":4752.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4750.46159375,"end":4750.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4751.2040937500005,"end":4758.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4753.684718750001,"end":4753.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4758.34221875,"end":4760.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4761.092843750001,"end":4762.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4761.1434687500005,"end":4764.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4764.67034375,"end":4765.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4765.22721875,"end":4765.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4767.72471875,"end":4770.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4771.352843750001,"end":4772.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4772.9559687500005,"end":4775.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4772.989718750001,"end":4773.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4773.040343750001,"end":4775.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4776.11159375,"end":4776.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4777.2928437499995,"end":4777.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4777.309718750001,"end":4778.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4777.37721875,"end":4779.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4779.53721875,"end":4781.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4779.874718749999,"end":4781.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4781.747843749999,"end":4781.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4781.764718750001,"end":4783.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4783.18221875,"end":4787.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4788.63284375,"end":4793.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4789.307843750001,"end":4789.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4792.80096875,"end":4799.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4793.999093750001,"end":4795.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4799.31471875,"end":4811.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4800.782843749999,"end":4803.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4804.309718750001,"end":4804.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4811.1103437500005,"end":4812.595343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4811.565968750001,"end":4814.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4814.7215937500005,"end":4818.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4817.96159375,"end":4820.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4821.319718750001,"end":4821.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4821.404093749999,"end":4840.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4821.606593750001,"end":4823.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4840.860968749999,"end":4853.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4852.23471875,"end":4852.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4854.3778437500005,"end":4854.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4854.39471875,"end":4856.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4855.60971875,"end":4858.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4858.14096875,"end":4860.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4859.32221875,"end":4893.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4871.607218749999,"end":4871.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4871.624093750001,"end":4873.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4893.00471875,"end":4902.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4902.70784375,"end":4911.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4910.87534375,"end":4918.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4915.5497187500005,"end":4917.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4918.31721875,"end":4921.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4921.84409375,"end":4925.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4921.911593750001,"end":4922.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4924.965968750001,"end":4928.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4928.475968750001,"end":4930.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4930.534718750001,"end":4941.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4931.007218750001,"end":4932.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4937.36909375,"end":4937.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4937.97659375,"end":4962.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4941.11534375,"end":4941.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4947.983468750001,"end":4948.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4948.0340937500005,"end":4949.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4950.464093750001,"end":4958.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4958.96909375,"end":4959.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4959.036593750001,"end":4959.829718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4961.280968749999,"end":4961.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4962.968468749999,"end":4963.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4964.520968750001,"end":4973.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4973.02596875,"end":4977.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4977.6834687499995,"end":4979.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4979.91096875,"end":4979.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4979.92784375,"end":4982.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4983.134093750001,"end":4989.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4985.952218750001,"end":4988.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4989.02346875,"end":4996.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4996.75221875,"end":4998.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4999.0809687500005,"end":5009.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5009.96534375,"end":5014.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5010.33659375,"end":5011.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5013.94784375,"end":5023.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5017.727843750001,"end":5019.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5023.00971875,"end":5026.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5025.54096875,"end":5030.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5028.274718750001,"end":5038.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5030.73846875,"end":5030.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5030.82284375,"end":5030.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5030.97471875,"end":5031.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5031.19409375,"end":5031.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5031.39659375,"end":5031.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5031.413468750001,"end":5031.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5031.43034375,"end":5031.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5034.67034375,"end":5037.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5038.028468750001,"end":5048.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5042.16284375,"end":5045.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5046.71909375,"end":5053.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5052.557843750001,"end":5052.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5052.608468750001,"end":5053.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5053.75596875,"end":5054.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5054.31284375,"end":5054.329718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5054.329718749999,"end":5054.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5054.3465937500005,"end":5054.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5054.430968750001,"end":5054.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5054.73471875,"end":5060.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5054.78534375,"end":5055.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5058.413468750001,"end":5062.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5062.9697187500005,"end":5070.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5070.68159375,"end":5071.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5072.099093750001,"end":5072.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5072.13284375,"end":5072.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5072.16659375,"end":5077.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5072.1834687499995,"end":5072.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5074.107218749999,"end":5074.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5078.376593749999,"end":5079.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5079.608468750001,"end":5083.017218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5081.295968750001,"end":5086.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5083.65846875,"end":5085.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5086.4090937500005,"end":5086.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5086.965968750001,"end":5087.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5087.03346875,"end":5088.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5088.33284375,"end":5101.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5088.48471875,"end":5088.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5088.53534375,"end":5089.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5089.210343750001,"end":5089.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5089.294718749999,"end":5089.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5089.64909375,"end":5089.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5089.682843750001,"end":5089.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5089.75034375,"end":5089.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5089.767218749999,"end":5090.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5097.81659375,"end":5097.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5097.86721875,"end":5101.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5101.073468750001,"end":5101.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5101.107218749999,"end":5101.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5101.309718750001,"end":5102.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5102.372843749999,"end":5102.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5102.49096875,"end":5102.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5102.72721875,"end":5123.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5107.36784375,"end":5107.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5114.657843749999,"end":5116.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5122.55534375,"end":5123.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5123.58471875,"end":5131.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5131.060343749999,"end":5134.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5134.0809687500005,"end":5137.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5136.44346875,"end":5139.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5137.590968750001,"end":5137.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5137.60784375,"end":5137.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5137.69221875,"end":5138.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5138.198468750001,"end":5138.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5138.21534375,"end":5138.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5138.35034375,"end":5139.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5139.734093749999,"end":5162.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5162.667218750001,"end":5163.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5170.04159375,"end":5172.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5175.71159375,"end":5176.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5177.58471875,"end":5177.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5178.66471875,"end":5179.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5179.93034375,"end":5181.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5184.182843750001,"end":5185.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5186.106593750001,"end":5186.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5194.020968750001,"end":5194.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5194.814093749999,"end":5205.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5198.93159375,"end":5199.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5199.28596875,"end":5199.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5200.19721875,"end":5200.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5200.298468749999,"end":5200.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5200.3153437500005,"end":5200.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5205.597218750001,"end":5205.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5206.03596875,"end":5237.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5211.01409375,"end":5211.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5211.925343750001,"end":5212.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5217.81471875,"end":5218.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5218.13534375,"end":5218.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5220.37971875,"end":5220.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5223.180968750001,"end":5223.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5229.67784375,"end":5230.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5236.124093750001,"end":5237.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5237.91284375,"end":5254.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5254.60221875,"end":5255.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5255.6990937499995,"end":5319.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5273.16471875,"end":5273.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5309.530343750001,"end":5310.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5312.010968750001,"end":5312.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5319.80721875,"end":5325.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5326.23659375,"end":5332.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5333.30721875,"end":5356.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5333.610968749999,"end":5333.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5356.5272187499995,"end":5357.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5357.286593750001,"end":5359.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5358.2147187499995,"end":5362.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5360.138468749999,"end":5375.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5364.323468750001,"end":5365.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5374.954718749999,"end":5387.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5376.0009687500005,"end":5376.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5384.843468749999,"end":5384.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5384.8603437500005,"end":5385.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5386.09221875,"end":5390.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5388.10034375,"end":5388.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5388.15096875,"end":5408.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5393.280968749999,"end":5395.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5403.52409375,"end":5403.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5403.96284375,"end":5404.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5405.717843750001,"end":5406.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5407.388468749999,"end":5407.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5409.16034375,"end":5421.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5412.99096875,"end":5413.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5413.024718750001,"end":5413.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5418.779093749999,"end":5419.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5420.97284375,"end":5424.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5422.89659375,"end":5440.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5427.77346875,"end":5428.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5429.190968750001,"end":5429.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5429.20784375,"end":5429.562218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5429.562218749999,"end":5429.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5437.66221875,"end":5442.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5442.28596875,"end":5446.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5444.02409375,"end":5444.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5445.30659375,"end":5452.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5452.00596875,"end":5453.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5453.35596875,"end":5453.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5453.474093750001,"end":5454.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5453.524718750001,"end":5455.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5455.077218750001,"end":5458.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5458.6884687500005,"end":5458.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5458.823468750001,"end":5463.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5461.28721875,"end":5467.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5466.6365937499995,"end":5482.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5468.86409375,"end":5469.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5481.2840937500005,"end":5491.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5483.190968750001,"end":5484.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5484.6590937500005,"end":5485.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5486.65034375,"end":5488.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5489.82284375,"end":5496.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5494.497218750001,"end":5494.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5496.505343750001,"end":5509.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5502.47909375,"end":5502.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5508.790343750001,"end":5517.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5517.700343750001,"end":5518.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5518.74659375,"end":5523.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5520.11346875,"end":5520.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5520.737843750001,"end":5521.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5521.64909375,"end":5526.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5524.23096875,"end":5535.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5535.09846875,"end":5538.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5536.56659375,"end":5537.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5538.2372187500005,"end":5544.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5541.29159375,"end":5541.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5541.3084687499995,"end":5551.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5545.729718750001,"end":5547.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5548.22721875,"end":5548.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5548.61534375,"end":5548.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5548.83471875,"end":5548.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5548.868468750001,"end":5548.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5548.88534375,"end":5548.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5548.919093750001,"end":5548.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5548.9697187500005,"end":5549.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5549.03721875,"end":5549.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5549.054093750001,"end":5549.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5549.12159375,"end":5549.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5549.96534375,"end":5550.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5550.032843749999,"end":5550.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5550.28596875,"end":5550.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5550.319718750001,"end":5550.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5550.35346875,"end":5560.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5551.18034375,"end":5551.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5551.214093750001,"end":5551.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5551.247843749999,"end":5551.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5551.264718750001,"end":5551.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5551.28159375,"end":5551.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5551.298468749999,"end":5551.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5573.35409375,"end":5576.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5576.3240937499995,"end":5576.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5576.374718749999,"end":5577.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5582.6522187499995,"end":5640.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5641.107218749999,"end":5653.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5653.13909375,"end":5745.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5745.00659375,"end":5792.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5752.00971875,"end":5752.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5752.026593750001,"end":5752.296593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5785.75971875,"end":5786.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5786.147843750001,"end":5786.282843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5786.282843749999,"end":5786.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5792.96534375,"end":5871.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5870.894093750001,"end":5873.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5873.40846875,"end":5891.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5883.7528437500005,"end":5884.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5891.5322187500005,"end":5893.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5893.27034375,"end":5919.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5918.02596875,"end":5920.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5921.13096875,"end":5985.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5985.9647187499995,"end":6076.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6076.684718750001,"end":6081.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6090.4715937500005,"end":6093.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6093.30659375,"end":6094.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6100.03971875,"end":6172.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6101.895968750001,"end":6102.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6172.88909375,"end":6252.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6252.35346875,"end":6268.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6268.84034375,"end":6362.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6341.63909375,"end":6343.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6362.02409375,"end":6399.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6362.564093750001,"end":6363.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6368.03159375,"end":6368.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6373.499093750001,"end":6374.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6382.020968750001,"end":6382.814093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6398.5584687499995,"end":6399.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6399.01409375,"end":6421.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6404.987843750001,"end":6406.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6406.962218750001,"end":6408.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6408.02534375,"end":6408.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6408.1434687500005,"end":6408.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6408.649718750001,"end":6409.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6409.341593749999,"end":6409.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6410.13471875,"end":6416.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6420.327218750001,"end":6423.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6423.01034375,"end":6425.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6423.16221875,"end":6424.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6425.96346875,"end":6425.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6425.997218750001,"end":6467.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6459.882218750001,"end":6459.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6465.75471875,"end":6506.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6471.509093750001,"end":6472.251593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6474.698468750001,"end":6475.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6488.7215937500005,"end":6488.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6488.82284375,"end":6491.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6506.03534375,"end":6549.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6549.33659375,"end":6549.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6549.62346875,"end":6549.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6549.977843750001,"end":6559.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6551.850968750001,"end":6552.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6559.022843750001,"end":6564.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6560.50784375,"end":6561.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6561.975968750001,"end":6564.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6565.51971875,"end":6566.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6571.08846875,"end":6573.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6584.03159375,"end":6585.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6586.66409375,"end":6587.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6591.54096875,"end":6591.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6591.96284375,"end":6592.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6592.9247187500005,"end":6596.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6596.50221875,"end":6596.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6596.519093750001,"end":6596.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6596.805968750001,"end":6596.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6597.19409375,"end":6597.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6598.5272187499995,"end":6607.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6607.437218749999,"end":6608.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6607.622843749999,"end":6607.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6608.7197187500005,"end":6615.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6612.314093750001,"end":6612.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6612.38159375,"end":6612.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6612.465968750001,"end":6612.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6613.79909375,"end":6613.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6615.90846875,"end":6618.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6615.94221875,"end":6616.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6616.9715937500005,"end":6619.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6619.5028437500005,"end":6626.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6626.96159375,"end":6632.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6632.96909375,"end":6634.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6635.21346875,"end":6636.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6637.575968749999,"end":6640.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6642.19971875,"end":6644.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6644.35971875,"end":6646.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6646.907843750001,"end":6651.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6652.79721875,"end":6656.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6656.897843750001,"end":6663.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6663.76596875,"end":6670.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6670.583468750001,"end":6674.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6670.70159375,"end":6672.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6674.31284375,"end":6675.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6674.329718750001,"end":6688.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6675.966593749999,"end":6676.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6681.501593750001,"end":6681.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6682.9022187499995,"end":6682.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6682.919093750001,"end":6683.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6688.909718750001,"end":6689.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6689.36534375,"end":6696.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6695.06909375,"end":6699.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6696.57096875,"end":6707.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6706.9490937499995,"end":6713.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6712.70346875,"end":6713.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6713.952218750001,"end":6714.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6715.960343750001,"end":6717.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6718.32284375,"end":6718.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6718.37346875,"end":6718.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6718.94721875,"end":6721.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6722.946593750001,"end":6724.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6725.46096875,"end":6726.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6726.86159375,"end":6730.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6732.464093750001,"end":6735.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6735.417218750001,"end":6750.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6741.67784375,"end":6744.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6745.592843750001,"end":6745.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6745.778468750001,"end":6745.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6750.874718749999,"end":6751.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6752.140343749999,"end":6752.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6752.292218750001,"end":6752.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6752.292218750001,"end":6757.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6756.780968749999,"end":6777.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6758.16471875,"end":6758.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6777.368468750001,"end":6780.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6780.2372187500005,"end":6782.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6780.49034375,"end":6780.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6782.5322187500005,"end":6782.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6782.54909375,"end":6782.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6782.565968750001,"end":6795.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6782.58284375,"end":6785.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6789.450968749999,"end":6789.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6795.981593750001,"end":6796.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6796.94346875,"end":6801.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6802.19159375,"end":6803.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6803.2040937500005,"end":6803.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6803.54159375,"end":6824.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6815.03346875,"end":6815.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6815.809718750001,"end":6816.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6824.466593749999,"end":6829.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6827.571593750001,"end":6827.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6830.25471875,"end":6850.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6830.40659375,"end":6832.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6833.35971875,"end":6833.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6854.706593750001,"end":6859.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6855.702218750001,"end":6855.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6859.9715937500005,"end":6862.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6862.907843750001,"end":6865.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6865.067843750001,"end":6866.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6866.21534375,"end":6867.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6867.970343750001,"end":6868.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6868.03784375,"end":6868.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6868.307843750001,"end":6879.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6879.20909375,"end":6886.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6886.7353437500005,"end":6887.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6887.12346875,"end":6890.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6891.089093750001,"end":6925.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6925.497218750001,"end":6928.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6928.56846875,"end":6932.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6932.68596875,"end":6940.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6940.499093750001,"end":6942.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6942.54096875,"end":6948.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6943.1990937499995,"end":6943.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6943.300343750001,"end":6943.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6943.70534375,"end":6943.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6943.73909375,"end":6943.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6944.144093750001,"end":6944.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6944.97096875,"end":6945.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6947.940968750001,"end":6949.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6949.4090937500005,"end":6955.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6955.5009687500005,"end":6958.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6959.196593750001,"end":6959.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6960.15846875,"end":6964.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6964.93409375,"end":6965.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6965.96346875,"end":6965.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6966.09846875,"end":6972.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6972.94971875,"end":6973.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6973.0340937500005,"end":6973.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6973.05096875,"end":6974.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6974.468468750001,"end":6976.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6975.43034375,"end":6976.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6976.780343750001,"end":6981.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6981.57284375,"end":6981.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6981.8934687500005,"end":6981.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6981.91034375,"end":6981.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6981.927218750001,"end":6982.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6982.97346875,"end":6986.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6987.05721875,"end":6996.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6996.7772187499995,"end":6999.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7000.13534375,"end":7013.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7014.10784375,"end":7019.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7020.35159375,"end":7023.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7021.46534375,"end":7023.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7023.33846875,"end":7023.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7023.794093750001,"end":7023.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7023.8447187500005,"end":7024.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7024.04721875,"end":7043.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7044.0947187500005,"end":7059.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7059.58596875,"end":7065.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7064.49659375,"end":7064.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7066.92659375,"end":7078.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7075.78596875,"end":7087.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7088.08784375,"end":7091.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7092.05346875,"end":7094.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7095.749093750001,"end":7122.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7123.019093750001,"end":7141.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7142.08784375,"end":7157.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7158.05159375,"end":7163.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7163.82284375,"end":7166.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7164.00846875,"end":7164.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7164.02534375,"end":7164.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7164.092843750001,"end":7164.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7165.5947187500005,"end":7165.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7167.33284375,"end":7172.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7173.374093750001,"end":7174.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7175.432843750001,"end":7177.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7178.1834687499995,"end":7180.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7181.1365937499995,"end":7185.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7186.1990937499995,"end":7187.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7187.39721875,"end":7189.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7189.32096875,"end":7201.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7202.1122187500005,"end":7203.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7203.86721875,"end":7206.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7206.837218750001,"end":7208.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7208.92971875,"end":7210.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7210.70159375,"end":7217.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7217.16471875,"end":7217.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7217.18159375,"end":7219.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7218.649718750001,"end":7224.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7224.25221875,"end":7225.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7225.04534375,"end":7230.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7230.749093750001,"end":7234.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7234.05659375,"end":7236.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7234.42784375,"end":7235.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7237.532843750001,"end":7238.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7248.19784375,"end":7253.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7262.102843750001,"end":7264.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7264.36409375,"end":7265.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7269.7303437499995,"end":7269.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7269.81471875,"end":7269.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7269.84846875,"end":7269.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7269.966593749999,"end":7269.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7269.983468750001,"end":7321.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7270.00034375,"end":7270.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7320.30471875,"end":7321.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7322.1103437500005,"end":7338.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7339.47471875,"end":7368.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7361.44596875,"end":7362.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7362.20534375,"end":7362.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7362.222218750001,"end":7362.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7368.29721875,"end":7376.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7377.139718750001,"end":7384.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7384.581593750001,"end":7392.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7392.597218750001,"end":7392.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7392.61409375,"end":7417.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7417.74096875,"end":7425.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7425.638468749999,"end":7428.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7428.94596875,"end":7435.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7436.202218750001,"end":7441.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7441.38284375,"end":7462.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7462.9490937499995,"end":7477.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7477.46159375,"end":7529.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7480.51596875,"end":7480.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7529.655968750001,"end":7562.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7546.497218750001,"end":7547.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7551.07034375,"end":7551.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7562.03909375,"end":7577.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7575.80909375,"end":7576.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7576.7372187500005,"end":7579.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7577.665343750001,"end":7603.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7603.028468750001,"end":7638.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7607.17971875,"end":7607.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7609.52534375,"end":7609.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7609.575968749999,"end":7609.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7609.964093750001,"end":7611.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7611.0272187499995,"end":7611.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7616.747843749999,"end":7617.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7617.135968750001,"end":7617.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7625.77596875,"end":7626.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7639.157843750001,"end":7681.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7659.1209687499995,"end":7659.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7663.204718750001,"end":7663.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7681.22721875,"end":7681.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7681.260968750001,"end":7684.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7682.03721875,"end":7682.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7684.872218750001,"end":7696.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7696.65096875,"end":7703.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7703.7215937500005,"end":7707.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7707.130343750001,"end":7756.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7756.92846875,"end":7762.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7762.69971875,"end":7771.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7771.964093750001,"end":7779.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7779.62534375,"end":7779.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7779.827843750001,"end":7824.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7824.934718750001,"end":7876.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7869.43409375,"end":7871.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7876.065968750001,"end":7883.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7883.08596875,"end":7889.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7883.11971875,"end":7884.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7886.62971875,"end":7889.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7889.49846875,"end":7944.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7905.968468750001,"end":7906.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7907.68971875,"end":7907.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7909.5965937500005,"end":7909.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7913.86596875,"end":7914.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7915.84034375,"end":7919.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7922.573468750001,"end":7922.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7923.602843750001,"end":7924.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7926.8934687500005,"end":7927.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7928.73284375,"end":7929.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7932.02346875,"end":7933.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7940.91659375,"end":7941.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7941.827843750001,"end":7947.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7945.37159375,"end":7945.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7947.835343750001,"end":7955.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7964.30534375,"end":7965.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7965.95909375,"end":7966.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7971.747218750001,"end":7972.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7972.827218750001,"end":7984.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7979.138468749999,"end":7979.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7984.75784375,"end":7987.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7988.16659375,"end":7990.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7990.444718750001,"end":7996.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7996.73909375,"end":8021.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8011.65659375,"end":8011.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8018.50784375,"end":8018.845343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8018.845343750001,"end":8018.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8019.95909375,"end":8020.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8021.325968750001,"end":8051.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8052.29159375,"end":8057.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8057.77596875,"end":8061.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8060.577218750001,"end":8075.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8066.061593750001,"end":8066.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8076.085343750001,"end":8078.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8076.11909375,"end":8076.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8078.97096875,"end":8085.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8084.96159375,"end":8085.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8085.06284375,"end":8085.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8085.2822187500005,"end":8087.982218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8088.30284375,"end":8134.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8134.55721875,"end":8214.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8165.708468750001,"end":8165.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8214.426593750002,"end":8214.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8214.91596875,"end":8215.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8215.253468750001,"end":8230.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8230.440968750001,"end":8248.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8246.77596875,"end":8247.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8248.007843750001,"end":8287.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8287.37721875,"end":8292.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8291.207843750002,"end":8291.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8292.254093750002,"end":8297.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8297.99159375,"end":8306.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8305.703468750002,"end":8311.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8309.601593750001,"end":8310.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8311.22159375,"end":8312.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8312.38596875,"end":8314.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8313.820343750001,"end":8314.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8314.731593750003,"end":8316.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8316.199718750002,"end":8326.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8320.148468750001,"end":8323.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8326.35846875,"end":8332.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8327.55659375,"end":8328.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8332.804718750001,"end":8339.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8339.234093750001,"end":8341.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8342.136593750001,"end":8346.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8345.17409375,"end":8350.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8350.675343750001,"end":8359.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8357.83034375,"end":8357.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8358.79221875,"end":8421.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8422.259093750003,"end":8422.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8422.292843750001,"end":8423.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8423.81159375,"end":8425.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8426.140343750001,"end":8445.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8446.22159375,"end":8465.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8469.964718750001,"end":8470.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8470.42034375,"end":8470.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8470.52159375,"end":8470.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8470.977218750002,"end":8471.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8482.97534375,"end":8483.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8483.97096875,"end":8484.03846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1831.417,"end":1860.123,"text":"報告委員會出席委員五人以足法定人數好 我們開會請議事人員宣讀會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第四會期外交及國防委員會第十三次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年十一月六日星期四上午九十一分至十二時二十八分地點鴻龍山林義會議室出席委員陳俊宇等九人列席委員鍾嘉斌等十三人請教委員黃仁林義軍列席人員國防部部長"},{"start":1860.883,"end":1874.658,"text":"顧立雄及所屬人員 主席馬周及委員文君報告事項一宣讀上次會議意思錄決定確定二 邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告因應無人載具大量投入現今戰場國軍如何構建無人載具部隊及訓練規劃裝備籌貨等具體做法並被質詢"},{"start":1878.181,"end":1892.399,"text":"國防部部長顧立雄作戰及計畫參謀次長是次長連志威報告委員陳俊宇等15人質詢軍用國防部部長顧立雄副參謀總長執行官黃志偉全民防衛動員署署長李定忠軍備局局長林文祥"},{"start":1893.64,"end":1920.834,"text":"陸軍司令部參謀長陳建義 海軍司令部參謀長邱俊榮空軍司令部參謀長李慶然 憲兵指揮部參謀長文念中及國家中山科學研究院院長李士強等即席答覆決定已登記質詢 在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二 委員黃仁 林毅君所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報三 委員所提書面及口頭質詢未及答覆或要求提供資資訊請國防部以二週內書面答覆本會全體委員並複製本會宣讀完畢"},{"start":1923.983,"end":1950.908,"text":"請問在場委員對於上一次會議議事錄有沒有遺漏錯誤需要更正的地方沒有的話我們議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀本日報告事項報告事項邀請僑務委員會委員長許家青報告業務概況並被質詢宣讀完畢好我們先介紹在場委員鄭永康委員羅美玲委員另外我們今天列席的官員由僑委會委員長許家青率隊"},{"start":1954.311,"end":1969.004,"text":"副委員長李延輝是第一次來歡迎李延輝副委員長張良明副委員長主任秘書榮佑兒綜合規劃處處長張浩鈞僑民處處長陳永峰僑教處處長林紀榮僑商處處長游凱權"},{"start":1983.255,"end":2007.727,"text":"僑生處處長張文華秘書室主任邱惠燕人事室主任谷元林資訊室主任白忠光政風室主任楊尊仁法規會專門委員徐佑林通訊社社長吳曉竹"},{"start":2011.189,"end":2029.905,"text":"海外信保基金董事長侯麗楊海華文教基金會執行長陳柏芹好 我們今天議程是邀請僑務委員會委員長徐家青報告業務概括並備執行現在請徐家青委員長上台報告"},{"start":2041.792,"end":2066.429,"text":"主席各位委員大家早榮幸應邀進行今天的業務報告今天報告將以因應多變局勢強化僑務支援動能來進行主軸的推動以及相關的成果連結僑力壯大台灣這四個面向跟大家報告請各位委員不吝指教"},{"start":2068.492,"end":2092.661,"text":"賴總統於2025年國家安全與經濟韌性論壇中強調國家安全的內涵不再是侷限於軍事防衛韌性不是被動的防禦而是主動塑造未來本會也秉持這樣的核心理念整合橋界的能量推動橋務政策以及相關的國家戰略來相互呼應結合僑胞力量拓展台灣的國際空間"},{"start":2094.462,"end":2107.874,"text":"並以台灣文化教育科技產業金融等各項來推動相關的政策深耕橋界形成雙向支持互利共榮的良性循環提升台灣總體的韌性"},{"start":2110.322,"end":2128.171,"text":"首先 針對推動主軸跟委員報告第一 擬聚橋立 鏈結主流 擴大台灣的聲量本會在海外有超過兩百萬的台橋包六千個橋團 一千所橋校以及十七萬名的留台校友"},{"start":2128.871,"end":2148.803,"text":"我們以多元的活動來協助僑胞生耕在地的社群並且在近年來籌組Team Taiwan參與各個僑居國的主流社會活動僑界透過與主流的政要、社群、社會各界長期的鏈接為台灣發聲是重要的公眾外交與國際支持的基礎更為穩固第二個"},{"start":2151.874,"end":2165.876,"text":"以台灣的軟實力來串聯橋界傳播各種意向本會以台灣的軟實力為核心串聯橋界力量深化公眾外交在策略上有主要的兩個項目第一個以台灣華語文"},{"start":2167.558,"end":2195.457,"text":"學習的深耕計畫來形塑差異化的台灣華語品牌並且臨派台灣優質的藝文團體赴海外巡迴表演舉辦台灣美食巡迴國際講座結合海外各地的主流活動的宣傳來增加大家對台灣美食與文化的認識並且結合綠色議題的轉型辦理ESG等講座協助我們的橋台商全面掌握全球的永續潮流"},{"start":2197.918,"end":2204.484,"text":"僑胞對台灣的情感與認同身份的連結外我們也向國際社會呈現台灣多元文化的內涵"},{"start":2205.629,"end":2228.602,"text":"第三培育海內外的青年世代來擴大我們僑務動能本會持續以培養海內外青年為核心來推動青年的培育計畫那麼依各個年齡層有不同的方案包括有自民國一百年起舉辦海內外的青年文化大使英文就是縮寫叫FASCA"},{"start":2229.183,"end":2238.899,"text":"培育體系採在地訓練參加自主性的活動而且他們在暑期都能夠返台參加進一步的活動培訓第二個"},{"start":2240.031,"end":2268.074,"text":"更進一階是舉辦全球橋界青年交流論壇我們邀請全球的橋界菁英返台進行交流座談上週才剛辦完今年度的這個論壇那麼從106年起又進一步的辦理了搭橋計畫那麼搭橋計畫也非常受到國內的大學生的歡迎近幾年來都有非常多的大學生不斷的來申請我們的相關搭橋計畫的名額"},{"start":2270.135,"end":2289.873,"text":"去海外来做各种的交流那么从民国113年起我们继续向下扎根针对国内的高中职学生办理桥物探索营希望能够引发我们青年学生的一个兴趣第五自去年开始青年百亿圆梦计划"},{"start":2290.834,"end":2309.393,"text":"的政策開始實施本會也協助提供圓夢計畫的相關名額讓國內的青年能夠赴海外實習蹲點那麼有海外以及國內相關的這些青年的培育計畫促使他們能夠在不同城市上各種面向上讓海內外的新生力量能夠有交流的機會"},{"start":2311.923,"end":2334.857,"text":"第四為了因應產業的新趨勢協助橋台商全球重組的佈局當前美國推動的對等關稅政策加速了各國供應鏈的重組並且朝向智慧化與淨零的發展政府積極導入科技創新與高值化的發展策略來尋求多元的市場佈局橋委會也在此"},{"start":2336.258,"end":2350.457,"text":"輔導海外的橋台商能夠具備跨國的經驗與社群人脈的網絡本會持續的扮演這種內外溝通的角色以及合作的平台除此之外我們也積極的推動在地的台灣企業與"},{"start":2352.6,"end":2371.529,"text":"海外的台商能夠進行各種的合作交流除了透過強化商業媒合專案合作資源共享等等的相關措施來因應對等關稅的挑戰與市場的分散那麼未來我們也會積極的來協助從國內赴海外"},{"start":2372.629,"end":2388.897,"text":"的投資台商那進一步得到他們需要的一些資源包括近期有這個徵才的活動我們在海外的台商也積極的協助這些赴美投資的大廠能夠在徵才上面得到更多的這個人脈的網絡跟挹注"},{"start":2391.735,"end":2396.317,"text":"第五 構築僑界社會防衛韌性、穩定僑社的發展面對當前各種統戰滲透與複合式的挑戰本會積極協助僑界強化自我的防衛能量透過研討會、培訓課程增進訊息辨識的能力與凝聚力讓僑界可獲取可靠的資訊"},{"start":2415.715,"end":2437.787,"text":"橋台商面遍佈全球六大洲為了讓全球的台商優勢能夠充分發揮建構風險分散的非紅供應鏈已經是全球的共識在台灣的優勢與橋界在主流社會的發展上面如何的強化擴大有我的力量同時能夠扎根"},{"start":2438.567,"end":2455.722,"text":"建構跨國互助的能量 讓具有自我防衛與自我強化的安全網絡能夠更進一步的建構起來是我們最重要的發展動力之一其次 針對近一年來推動的相關成果跟委員報告"},{"start":2457.85,"end":2469.874,"text":"今年度最大的盛事當然就是首推十月份的這個全橋回國參加慶典活動那麼今年有3937名將近4000名的僑胞參與那麼我們也結合了35家的旅行業者開出174條的旅遊路線那麼有32家的愛喬卡特約商店855個門市都提供了相關的優惠活動"},{"start":2483.599,"end":2496.833,"text":"那麼今年並提供僑胞在國內旅遊3000元的補助那麼在花東的路線特別提高到4000元的旅遊補助希望能夠活絡國內的經濟相關旅遊的狀況那由於這一項還在進行當中所以相關的旅遊統計的名額要在12月底才能夠統一做彙整"},{"start":2506.482,"end":2526.922,"text":"那麼除此之外呢剛剛在10月下旬也在圓山大飯店舉辦了我們一年一度的僑務委員會議今年共有177名僑務委員及列席代表參加今年的主題是以建構全社會任性的政策方向來作為我們的討論主軸那麼並且邀請了內政部的馬政次"},{"start":2528.643,"end":2540.268,"text":"做專題演講那麼透過雙十國慶的連結以及僑務委員會議的政策研討大量的凝聚了我們全僑共同共足台灣安全與發展的一個基礎"},{"start":2542.182,"end":2565.457,"text":"第二近年近一年來我們在全球的台灣日拓展上面受到國際高度的關注那麼本會與海外橋界攜手推動的台灣日系列活動是結合體育賽事文化節慶夜市展演文化團美食巡迴講座等等多元的形式來呈現相關的文化特色那麼今年100民國114年在全美"},{"start":2569.46,"end":2583.714,"text":"就有21場以美國的職棒大聯盟MLB以及美國的NBA大型賽事為核心的台灣日活動那麼總共也吸引了超過2萬人次以上的僑胞參與現場的觀眾有相近60萬人次可以說是"},{"start":2589.399,"end":2612.073,"text":"這個本小利多一個非常能夠吸引年輕人的活動方式那麼其中呢今年首度突破20年來的努力也就是在今年9月10號與美國的紐約Yankee隊首次舉辦了台灣日這個是Yankee隊在首次有其他墨西哥義大利日之外我們總算能夠爭取到以台灣日這樣的型態來演出參與"},{"start":2616.135,"end":2644.473,"text":"那麼除此之外在亞太區在中南美歐洲其他各地區也有非常多的僑社紛紛的在舉辦台灣夜市台灣夜市或者文化交流廚藝講座等多元文化的這種方式第三大項呢是擴大我們台灣華語文學習中心的營運來深化華語文教育的品牌影響力本會自2020年底開始推動海外華語文深耕計畫以來"},{"start":2645.814,"end":2663.36,"text":"那麼至今呢已經設立88所台灣華語文學習中心其中68所在美國歐洲13個國家共有20所並且發展出各種多元的模式例如我們在舊金山與Google合作開設了華語科技專班促成與工業電腦大廠的Powerwell合作也是為他們的員工開設華語班更有與這個當地的"},{"start":2673.908,"end":2690.811,"text":"Local的政府包括公立圖書館等等來開設這個華語班的模式推廣各項的這個主流社會對於台灣華語文的一個學習興趣那麼在教材方面我們這套新的"},{"start":2691.892,"end":2719.08,"text":"针对国际人士所设计的来学华语所出版的这个版本包含有欧洲语系七个以及亚洲语系三个目前已经有十个语版那么明年会继续扩大到日本加拿大澳洲纽西兰希望能够更进一步有全球性的布局那么这些版本我们也持续分享给教育部等单位一起来共同使用这些教学的资源"},{"start":2721.718,"end":2745.886,"text":"第四項協服我們橋台商穩健的營運挑戰因應的對等關稅本會透過我們預算基金的挹注我們今年度的這個海外信保基金繼續在我們努力與公民銀行庫遊說之下那麼這個捐款今年度再度有新的捐款進來那麼因此我們也"},{"start":2746.386,"end":2772.991,"text":"對等編列了公務預算希望能夠挹注我們海外信保基金的這個水位擴大讓我們從原本的200萬美金的受信額度提高為300萬美金的受信額度以因應對等關稅在未來各個新的投資方案能夠有足夠的資金來因應同時也為了今年對等關稅所造成的一些橋台商"},{"start":2775.471,"end":2800.272,"text":"營業的影響那麼我們推出了一個對等關稅專案貸款計劃那麼這個保證計劃呢是指對因為美國的對等關稅影響而導致營收下滑10%者那麼就可以申請最高30萬美金的貸款那麼保證成數高達九成而且期間最長到六年這其中三年由本會來補貼"},{"start":2801.993,"end":2809.916,"text":"手續費以及長達半年的利息幫助我們的僑財商度過今年的挑戰因應他們能夠繼續發展的腳步第五 繼續精進各項產學專班的品質提升僑生的培育成效本會配合政府投資人才政策從112年到150年至今的中長成績計畫"},{"start":2830.085,"end":2843.053,"text":"即是這個個案計畫是擴大培育及留用僑生那麼發展具有產學合作特色的專班從去今年我們招生的額數入學達到5832人"},{"start":2847.656,"end":2866.351,"text":"錄取5832人那麼入學的人數有5460人這個就學率可以說是非常的高到九成五 九成六這樣的一個入學的人數那麼海青班的部分共錄取1630人那麼入學的人數也有高達1376人"},{"start":2872.276,"end":2885.525,"text":"那麼我們做逐年提高學生的這個入學率以就讀率還有畢業率這都是我們積極努力的目標那麼除此之外呢我們也擴大辦理僑生就業博覽會從兩年前開始在台北舉辦去年擴大為高雄及台北今年更在北中南三個都會區辦理三場的這個就業博覽會每一場次都吸引了超過80家的企業"},{"start":2902.276,"end":2906.679,"text":"參加博覽會的面試相關的介紹活動吸引了共有10669人次的參與那麼履歷的投遞高達4045次這是指博覽會當天所以總共三天累積的數字然後我們持續的有半年叫做喬生愛就業的網路平台至今還是在"},{"start":2926.83,"end":2933.595,"text":"持續的幫學生以及企業來做進行媒合希望能夠提供已經畢業的僑生有更好的這個就業的相關資訊將他們能夠所學留在台灣運用發展在台灣"},{"start":2943.243,"end":2952.405,"text":"其次最後一項要跟各位報告就是Move to Next Generation布局世代的傳承那麼從民國100年開辦了FASCA這個青年文化大使以來呢從美國到加拿大那麼進一步擴展到亞洲 曼谷"},{"start":2963.668,"end":2977.783,"text":"菲律賓、澳洲、紐西蘭今年我們也首度拓展到巴西至今已經培育了近5萬人今年新招的學生就總共連巴西在內共有891名的新學員"},{"start":2980.606,"end":2998.185,"text":"其次我們在剛剛舉辦的這個全球僑界青年的交流論壇邀請了將近80位79位的新生代的年輕世代很多都是第二代甚至第三代的年輕朋友反台參加相關的論壇活動"},{"start":2999.887,"end":3002.83,"text":"普遍得到非常大的迴響他們非常希望這個活動能夠繼續的擴大辦理那也促成了六大洲的年輕朋友有一個很好的交流平台那麼除此之外今年我們在搭橋計劃的部分總共錄取83人分7條路線在分別有美國澳洲"},{"start":3022.068,"end":3036.596,"text":"曼谷及菲律賓四個國家七條路線讓台灣的這個大學生能夠參加各項的這個海內外的交流計畫那麼針對高中生的部分呢今年有56個"},{"start":3039.197,"end":3060.989,"text":"56所的高中共64位的高中生參與了我們的橋屋探索營那這也是增多周少的局面因為報名的人數多但是我們能夠有的這個元額數就是雖然逐年有在擴增但是基於預算的因素我們只能緩慢的增加也希望未來我們可以持續的擴大辦理"},{"start":3063.12,"end":3088.078,"text":"第五今年特別舉辦了這個海外十大傑出青年的選拔這是每兩年一次的這個十大傑出青年選拔那麼今年呢是第六屆共計有九個國家十位年輕人獲得了傑出青年的一個表揚那麼第六項呢是辦理第四屆的全球青商潛力之星表揚了十位傑出的青商來自"},{"start":3091.38,"end":3105.454,"text":"總共有13個國家21個地區的29個青商來甄選參加活動那麼這項青商潛力刺青也促成了很多青商朋友一個非常好的交流平台最後一項是針對"},{"start":3110.407,"end":3127.538,"text":"如何建置海外的聯繫平台來分享及時的資訊本會持續在6加1的平台官網上面來整合跨部會的資源傳遞政府的重大政策相關的發展現況以及形象"},{"start":3129.039,"end":3140.744,"text":"傳遞那麼其中我們的即時新聞澄清專區呢並且連結行政院等跨部會希望能夠提供及時的訊息來進行內容的澄清有效的防堵假訊息並且透過各個駐地的社群媒體來進行擴散讓僑胞能夠及時的掌握正確的訊息另外今年也特別辦理了海外華文媒體報導大獎"},{"start":3155.191,"end":3170.517,"text":"特別新增了一個叫做短影音的獎項Yes Taiwan吸引更多不同年齡層的新聞工作者來參與那麼透過入圍者的邀訪團來加強各項的交流鼓勵僑胞在國際舞台上為台灣發聲"},{"start":3172.847,"end":3190.121,"text":"展望未來 本會會持續推動Move to Next Generation 向下一代的發展計畫來厚植青年的傳承動能並且將全社會防衛任性的理念延伸至海外橋界來構築堅實的國際支持網絡並且與各界並肩讓Team Taiwan能夠在國際舞台上發揮更大的影響力以上報告 請各位委員不吝指教感謝聆聽 謝謝"},{"start":3204.134,"end":3220.54,"text":"謝謝委員長請回我們現在開始進行詢答本會委員今天時間6加2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘10點半的時候截止發言登記如果各位委員有臨時提案請在10點半前提出我們11點左右是會議狀況來處理首先請羅美玲委員進行詢答"},{"start":3232.921,"end":3235.082,"text":"謝謝主席 有請徐委員長來 委員長請羅委員早安委員長早安委員長剛剛在報告的時候有提到就是說僑委會協助美國跟歐洲設置了總共88所的台灣華語文學中心尤其在美國我們這個TCML的發展是非常值得肯定的"},{"start":3261.75,"end":3281.566,"text":"那例如我們跟Google合作 開設了華語科技專班進而跟當地的工業電腦大廠Portwell有合作開設了華語版 所以這是非常好的成果那剛剛委員長有提到在教材的部分我們有出版的"},{"start":3281.986,"end":3309.066,"text":"英文 法文 德文 西班牙文 波蘭文還有印尼文跟越南文如果說英法德 西班牙 波蘭等這個語言我們可以理解因為我們現在都是佈局在歐美可是我們現在有印尼文跟越南文這是不是我們在為未來的佈局來做準備請問委員長為什麼會有印尼文跟越南文"},{"start":3310.308,"end":3325.725,"text":"跟委員報告因為近年來其實我們有很多的僑生過去是以馬來西亞跟新馬來西亞跟香港澳門的學生為多但最近這十年來已經是越南跟印尼的學生數遠遠超過了這個馬來西亞跟香港"},{"start":3330.67,"end":3356.718,"text":"因應著這個局勢的變化我們也需要能夠協助越南或印尼的僑生在華語能力的提升上面因此我們就超前部署開發了印尼就是馬來文版跟越南文版事實上明年因為我們馬上就是日本也會有新的兩所華語文學習中心要開設所以明年會再增加日文版的"},{"start":3357.518,"end":3367.663,"text":"那麼澳洲、紐西蘭、加拿大基本上還都是用英文版就可以支應那歐洲語版因為它歐洲語系二三十個國家所以我們為了配合才做這樣子的推廣那未來在亞洲呢我們也是有可能會進一步的來做這相關的拓展因為我們不單單只有針對僑生我們希望的是能夠進一步向下扎根讓各個國際人士呢只要有興趣他可能將來要跟台灣"},{"start":3386.591,"end":3396.081,"text":"做各種的商業或者是投資的連結或者是他們的工程師需要進行外派或管理人員有需求要進行調動那麼我們開設這些華語文學習中心就可以大量的幫助他們快速第一個掌握華語的使用"},{"start":3404.289,"end":3407.952,"text":"第二個也能夠了解我們的文化發展的一個方向那這個是我們在這幾年華語文學習中心設立當中得到一個非常好重要的經驗那事實上也剛好呼應這個外交部的總和外交計畫早在三年前我們在歐洲就首先在推動這個概念是先輔導"},{"start":3424.666,"end":3436.516,"text":"我們國內的廠商去海外投資的時候那他們在當地聘僱的員工由於在溝通上事實上都歐洲語系因為各個不一樣大家只會用英文溝通事實上相對也困難所以後來我們設了華語文中心就派我們的師資呢進到他們的各廠去開設專班幫他們的員工上課那這個都提供了我們這些住去海外投資的廠商一個不同面向的服務很多廠商也非常感謝"},{"start":3452.55,"end":3459.914,"text":"現在政府有這樣一個新的發展OK 真的是要肯定喬爾會要肯定委員長因為我記得像之前的時候我們也曾經討論過相關的議題那時候我也跟委員長有建議就是說其實我們有很多來自東南亞 越南跟印尼的這個僑生 僑外生所以也希望就是說我們把這個點能夠擴展到當地那委員長我想這個部分我想"},{"start":3476.884,"end":3494.902,"text":"委員長這邊一直都有來做這個推動所以我今天看到報告裡面有提到說有印尼文有越南文我想是不是這也是一個我們要去設置這個華語文中心的一個事先的一個佈局那當然除了剛剛委員長所提到的像這個澳洲我們有看到就是說其實"},{"start":3495.402,"end":3511.737,"text":"TCML我們的設置計畫最主要的契機還是說因為歐美國家他陸續對中國的孔子學院提出了一些疑慮嘛所以我們他們在陸陸續續都關閉了一些孔子學院跟孔子學院終止了這個合作那像美國他本來有一百多所那現在減到可能就各位"},{"start":3512.457,"end":3535.606,"text":"那再來剛剛還有就是委員長所提到的這個澳洲那我們也知道說最近其實澳洲也關閉了六所大學的這個孔子學院所以像墨爾本大學昆斯蘭大學這個西澳大學等等他們都把孔子學院給關閉了我在想這也是我們華語文中心進駐一個很好的一個一個一個契機那我不曉得說就是喬爾惠這邊"},{"start":3537.246,"end":3560.849,"text":"澳洲是不是未來我們可能要首先要去部署的一個點像這個日本也是像日本的話之前也打算要加強對中國的這個所設置的孔子學院做這個審查那甚至南韓的國情院他對境內的孔子學院其實也進行調查當中像這些國家慢慢的對孔子學院的這個角色"},{"start":3561.309,"end":3574.902,"text":"其實產生了很大的疑慮像其實這個部分其實都是我們華語文中心進去的一個很好的一個時間點所以我不曉得就是說巧合會這部分未來的部署有沒有比較詳細的一些計畫"},{"start":3576.924,"end":3583.847,"text":"跟委員報告我們第一期的這個中長程期計劃是從2020年底12月跟美國簽訂的這個台美教育倡議開始以後那我們第一期計劃呢事實上到今年2025年已經告一段落因此我們已經向國發會提出了下第二期的中長程期計劃就從2026年到2029年那這四年一期的計劃呢我們當然是希望持續的拓展"},{"start":3606.255,"end":3632.144,"text":"那過去這四年當中雖然在疫情期間我們仍然沒有停滯在美國跟歐洲的腳步那因此接下來下面第二期大的這個計畫我們是希望向全球所以我們會更布局在亞太區中南美洲也都會持續的來設立華語文學習中心那麼我剛剛有特別口頭說明的時候提到明年開始日本會有兩所澳洲會有四所"},{"start":3633.044,"end":3645.153,"text":"那分別就是剛剛委員你關心的我們在西澳就是西澳目前沒有但是在墨爾本在雪梨在布里斯本都有一所一所到兩所的這個佈局那因此呢這個是我們"},{"start":3649.116,"end":3663.464,"text":"知道澳洲的這個人口比較集中的這個大都會區我們已經都布局了Morbon好像是一所對不對雪梨有兩所然後這個布里斯本有一所那同時我們也在紐西蘭今年也有一所"},{"start":3664.965,"end":3671.651,"text":"奧克蘭所以我們已經都開始超前這個做一些作業那麼明年度開始呢他們就會陸續開始啟動這個營運計畫那麼加拿大也有三所分別在東岸及西岸都"},{"start":3680.658,"end":3683.001,"text":"兩個大都會溫哥華以及多倫多那這些都是我們在這幾年密切的看到台灣由於經濟科技的蓬勃發展那有非常多的這個國際的廠商或者國際人士"},{"start":3696.016,"end":3711.769,"text":"想要來台灣促進商機因此他們學習華語的動機就變強了倒不純然跟孔子學院有什麼關係我們也沒有要跟他們競爭因為大家的發展方向是完全不同的他只是在做政治性的宣傳對我們來說我們是希望能夠善盡國際社會的意願讓台灣的文化也能夠讓更多的國際社會認識所以我們的華語文學習中心有兩個重點一個就是語言的學習第二個就是文化的交流"},{"start":3724.659,"end":3745.03,"text":"那所以透過我們的華語文中心的設置我們希望能夠達到這樣的一個好的方向 謝謝OK 好 非常肯定我們橋友會在這方面的這個努力因為這是我第二次呢執行我們橋友會這個華語文中心學習的這個進展那這次呢真的看到報告裡面其實有很多讓我們覺得非常肯定的地方所以橋友會繼續加油 謝謝謝謝羅委員好 謝謝羅委員 委員長請回接下來經營訓導委員林楚英委員"},{"start":3765.679,"end":3794.6,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請委員長來 委員長請林委員早安好 委員長早 辛苦了我想其實除了大概在立法院詢答你多數的時間都在奔波所以跟我們這些橋界台商們的關係是非常好的所以我想詢問一下就是我們先從這個普發現金來聊起好了因為我們知道這個普發現金我們有很多的台商或是橋界的好朋友"},{"start":3795.12,"end":3800.785,"text":"他們是不是有資格請領目前這個僑委會有沒有做一些了解目前我們海外的台商當中大家目前請領的狀況如何所以我想先就這個部分借用這個機會因為我知道很多台僑好朋友也都會看我們的這些詢答的內容因為我特別針對是不是可以領一萬的部分有上了這個僑委會的網站應該說是臉書啦其實底下"},{"start":3823.124,"end":3838.018,"text":"是有一些好朋友們在詢問的那他們的問題其實多數我稍微大概整理了一下比如說他們可能是現在有戶籍但是被除籍了要除戶了那麼來不及回來申請那麼有一些是說他們是"},{"start":3841.321,"end":3847.788,"text":"儲戶之後恢復了有沒有時間的限制然後有一些人是說他如果現在目前沒有國內的銀行但是又無法領現等等其實他們的狀況會跟我們國內不太一樣因為國內比較"},{"start":3856.998,"end":3867.009,"text":"多的會是年長者他可能有所謂的數位落差所以說他在登記的部分會比較麻煩可能需要長輩那麼所以說像一些里長啊或是像我們民進黨的民意代表也都有在自己的服務處就張貼說你可以來這裡我可以協助你可是對於海外的這些台橋朋友的部分的話那麼"},{"start":3877.521,"end":3890.652,"text":"他們的這一些請領資格的疑問是不是可以藉這個機會我們委員長也稍微講一下那麼你們手上有沒有一些什麼樣的掌握那麼有沒有一些提供給他們的特別服務或者是設立一個專區在這個你們的網站上面讓他們來了解"},{"start":3896.363,"end":3898.366,"text":"謝謝林委員的這個提問我們確實在11月6號的時候也先在臉書做了第一個這個有關於普發薪金的宣傳那接下來我們確實也會有一個在網站的專區來"},{"start":3911.523,"end":3915.866,"text":"做各種Q&A那事實上就目前為止我所了解的海外僑民都非常可愛他們說這一萬塊現金呢應該是有在台灣繳稅的人來領就好了所以絕大多數的僑民說他們並沒有想要領這個就是說有資格領的人也沒有特別說想要來領但是真的想要來領的我們也有去思考他們要怎麼作業"},{"start":3934.781,"end":3937.823,"text":"那麼第一個就是說他們只要在國內任何的銀行或者是郵政劃波有這個帳戶的他們都可以尋這個在網路登記的方式就可以合撥這1萬那如果沒有的話他的直系親屬事實上也是可以幫他做帶領的"},{"start":3952.333,"end":3955.114,"text":"但是就是說這個帶領的過程他就是要具備有身分證相關證件的資料才能夠幫他做現金的帶領的模式這個是根據目前財政部規劃的方向裡面都有的一些模式所以我們比較擔心的反而是說因為詐騙案件很多所以我們避免說有些登錄的時候有些錯誤的訊息"},{"start":3979.36,"end":3984.483,"text":"誤導他們還沒有領到一萬卻被先詐騙了十萬所以這方面我們現在反而是重點在這個地方反詐的宣傳反詐的宣傳我們就持續的在做那至於駐外的公務人員或者是分別派駐到海外的這些公務人員的眷屬那他們呢政府會主動撥到他們的戶頭所以他們不用做任何特別的動作那至於僑胞的部分就是我剛剛所說的"},{"start":4010.541,"end":4021.69,"text":"他們事實上如果想要請領就是剛剛那兩項的方向都是可以運作第一個就是在網路上先去登錄然後匯到他們的戶頭第二個就是說請他們在國內的這個直系血親來幫他們進行這個帶領的作業那這兩項我想如果都還有困難的話我們會再進一步跟財政部來了解看看還有沒有其他的方式可以解決"},{"start":4036.021,"end":4060.391,"text":"好 所以顯然這個對於服務僑民這個方向真的是方方面面非常多但是大家的關注的點可能還會是資格的部分不過因為像你們已經寫得很清楚了就是只要是國內有戶籍的國民以及有居留許可但是沒有戶籍也可以那之前因為可能COVID-19的期間就是武漢肺炎沒有辦法回來的只要恢復了戶籍是不是也就可以來申請勤領這一萬元"},{"start":4063.252,"end":4067.053,"text":"確實是這個現在就是我相信這個請領因為到明年2026年的年中那所以我如果判斷沒有錯的話明年二月的農曆年節前後會有非常多的僑胞就會回來所以這段時間他們也可以親自回來再領就好了"},{"start":4082.918,"end":4090.783,"text":"所以也不用那麼急於說趕在第一波當然第一波已經有非常多人已經作業了但是國際的這個因為跨國界的這個登錄上面我們還是要注意安全為優所以我們會持續的來宣導就是讓海外僑胞只要具有資格者我們都希望他們的權利不要受到"},{"start":4105.633,"end":4113.015,"text":"影響讓他們都可以公平的領到那但是我們也聽到很多僑民真的很可愛他們說我們不會去領你們宣傳你們的這個錢應當是交留給台灣的人來領就好了所以說這個他們這個台僑朋友僑民朋友愛台灣的心真的是很可愛也透過委員長我們了解到這些海外僑民朋友對於台灣這個在國內的好朋友以及在海外的朋友的想法"},{"start":4133.499,"end":4142.705,"text":"好 另外一個其實我要關注的問題是我們都知道這個亞洲台商聯合總會的第33屆的第二次禮敬式會議12月8號會在新加坡舉行那麼其實在2024年的時候在越南舉行的這個所謂台商會的活動當時就受到中國的打壓所以很可惜不只是委員長不能到連我們的立法院的副院長江啟臣副院長也沒辦法去"},{"start":4162.279,"end":4177.388,"text":"那麼我們知道就是最近10月25號新加坡的總理才跟這個中共的這個李強才剛見過面所以呢他也特別發表了就是所謂的一中原則以及新加坡堅持所謂反台獨的這個部分"},{"start":4178.729,"end":4197.633,"text":"那麼中國的長臂管轄的這個所謂威嚇其實現在目前是再升級的不知道目前委員長有沒有特別去了解現在亞洲台商聯合總會這一次12月在新加坡辦的活動中國的狀況如何然後您覺得您去得成嗎根據我目前的了解這個"},{"start":4207.472,"end":4216.334,"text":"因為新加坡事實上是免簽國我們可以直接就是如果私人身份當然隨時可以進出但是因為我們是以公務行程所以我們總是要取得這個我們出訪國家的這一個不只是默契而且要有官方的一個這個同意那不滿委員說確實我們近期已經有去跟新加坡代表處去接洽了"},{"start":4234.798,"end":4245.082,"text":"那得到的訊息不是太樂觀那麼這也跟新加坡一貫的立場有主要的關係目前為止是新加坡認為說這個他們對於"},{"start":4250.649,"end":4255.893,"text":"本會 因為他說新加坡是一個以華裔為以名的主要國家所以他認為本會去對他們有一些影響會影響他們的僑民的認知所以他是以這個理由來拒絕僑委會的任何官員不只是委員長而已是任何官員都不能出訪"},{"start":4270.464,"end":4291.807,"text":"好 那麼其實本席還要端著當然這可能跟僑委會不一定有關但是過去以往包括像王定宇 昭緯也曾經有來辦過所謂的這個海外的考察來出席這樣的一個活動那麼我們知道沈伯洋委員也是我們國防外交的委員那麼包括就是中國在這一次當中如果"},{"start":4292.608,"end":4320.375,"text":"他有所謂長臂管轄甚至於新加坡是跟中國有簽所謂的引渡相關的協定的那麼像這樣的部分包括僑委會以及相關的單位我都希望說還是要密切的關注跟委員報告其實我們都有在關注各國的發展局勢所以也都提醒了僑民說過境或者是轉機甚至在哪些地方哪些國家都要高度的注意尤其是我們的榮譽職人員怕避免被標示或者是他被列為所謂的這個"},{"start":4321.415,"end":4323.118,"text":"長臂管轄範圍的狀況之下會受到中國的一些干擾跟風險因此這部分我們都要高度提醒好 謝謝謝謝委員新加坡不在警示範圍內吧"},{"start":4332.957,"end":4352.853,"text":"未來可能也要警示了要警示確定這個是大事情這個就要請新加坡的這個代表要就目前為止新加坡不在警示範圍內目前沒有如果委員長預測未來可能列入警示範圍內後面會把他變頭條我跟你講那個是大事不是小事好請回來接下來進行訓導委員徐曉欣委員"},{"start":4363.922,"end":4366.344,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請徐家欣委員長來 委員長請徐委員早安欸 我很好奇喔 先追問一下為什麼您覺得新加坡接下來可能會被列入警視啊欸 倒不是說一般人都會被列入警視啦是 特定人士會被列入警視比方說 省委員可能會有風險"},{"start":4389.304,"end":4416.289,"text":"所以他之後就不能去新加坡 是這個意思我問一下我們在2015年的時候其實那時候的立法委員鄭麗君也是現在的副院長她就有批評過教育部長吳思華理由是因為吳思華部長那時候她用公務機票出訪德國在這個行程結束之後還另外加了三天的個人假期"},{"start":4416.889,"end":4441.901,"text":"那鄭麗芸委員她就說呢公務機票不應該拿來私人旅遊公司應該分明我想問一下這個委員長你對於公務出差之後然後在家請假的這樣子的一個做法的態度您覺得是就是說過去鄭麗文立委現在的副院長她對於吳思華的批評你覺得是合理的嗎"},{"start":4444.343,"end":4456.58,"text":"對於這個個案內容我並不是很了解但是就他的個案就是說因為教育部我了解教育部因為他並不是涉外單位說他每一個行程跟每一個行程中間都一直接連不斷的"},{"start":4458.823,"end":4462.447,"text":"那這跟外交部或僑委會狀況不一樣我們可能從這一點到這一點中間的活動可能會有一兩天的落差那所以說要連續起來所以本會過去幾十年的慣例就是可以比如說A活動然後跟B活動中間然後你可能用請假的方式是為了A活動要去參加B活動所以才請假的 是的是這個意思"},{"start":4484.106,"end":4506.235,"text":"可是對方他的公務行程之後多了三天的請假也不一定他是私人旅遊所以我覺得當初這個說法所以我說我不知道他的個案是怎麼情況根據8月底的休假資料我想要請問一下您在8月13號到8月20號的這段休假時間您人是在台灣嗎"},{"start":4507.555,"end":4534.271,"text":"我休假時間不在台灣跟委員報告事實上我是出國而且出國的機票是我自己買的而且因為這樣子我知道下一個點我第一個出差出訪的點是什麼我就特別買去那個點幫國家省了一筆錢21號到9月15號再一次因公出國在這次出國裡面你也是自己付費還是就是用公務機票那一趟就是已經在當地國"},{"start":4535.785,"end":4555.315,"text":"然後當地國我們所以之後又跑了很多國啊所以每一國的機票就變成公務機票啦OK所以後續是公務機票通常是公務了我想要請教一下就是說您在這個休假之後接著公務出國那前面的這個頭的部分您說您是我自己自費買的對但是委的部分是嗎跟委員報告齁"},{"start":4556.596,"end":4581.405,"text":"委員這個這樣子過去僑委會歷任不管委員長或副委員長通通是一樣的模式就是說其實我們反而是因為不想浪費公帑因為他A活動到B活動之間如果只有兩天左右的空檔他如果來回飛我們耗掉的這個交通費會更高我就問的是說您去的時候啊我自己買機票自己買的機票嘛對但你去B點的時候那個機票就是公務機票開始是公務了對"},{"start":4585.706,"end":4600.256,"text":"那所以其實實際上面呢還是有一段的行程沒有委員我先到的第一點就在那個地方沒有機票所以那一段是我全部自己出的對啊我幫公務出了委員事實上我本來就要飛去那個點那我先飛去那個點我還用自己的錢來買所以我為了不想讓"},{"start":4603.157,"end":4628.668,"text":"有些不懂得同仁亂講所以我還特別交代同仁說如果我一開始是請休假的部分我就全部都自費這已經不是第一次了我好幾次都是這樣我願意以師濟公飛機的這個票是在8月13嘛但是你8月20到8月21的部分的這個機票也是你自己出的嗎那個就在當地啦已經是在當地啦所以後續就是等到9月15號再飛回來對 沒錯那我們接下來看一下"},{"start":4633.01,"end":4639.934,"text":"委員跟您報告我很感謝您特別詢問這個問題事實上過去這幾年我在僑委會先不講副委員長的任內在單單是委員長這不到三年當中呢本人因公出國35次總共是378天那麼我總共只有休假核准的時間只有11天也就是說如果我在這裡面這個"},{"start":4659.008,"end":4674.903,"text":"沒有請補休假我每一年要貢獻給國家的天數可能都有七八三個月左右的天數要送給國家事情是這樣的累積你的任期大概有四分之一的時間都在國外嗎超過那這個只統計到你這個擔任委員長的時間還不包括副委員長的時候"},{"start":4681.889,"end":4695.956,"text":"那我們可以看一下就是說您出國的時間基本上是比兩任的外交部長加起來還要多很多但是請假不是問題同樣的資料您在任內是請假了34次然後一共是47天"},{"start":4697.217,"end":4725.555,"text":"那但是呢你看喔112年5月26號到7月1號113年6月20號到7月15號113年11月10號到11月25號114年的4月13號到5月5號那這個分別跟您的請假紀錄的重疊分別是三天七天兩天跟一天請問這些都是您剛剛所說的您都是自費買機票嗎這四次都是這樣子剛剛那次是一樣的嗎"},{"start":4726.656,"end":4728.978,"text":"對 我要跟您說明一下對 確定喔對 就是A點到B點我們是基於A點到B點然後 老實講 而且我不想誤領或者是特別去領在公務機要那個出差費"},{"start":4742.535,"end":4765.187,"text":"所以我都是如實的做說沒關係那我就用我的請休假來代替那幾天我自己出生活費的方式是停留在當地喔我問的是說你這個112年這個中間重複就是你跟他休假重疊的這個部分嗎那你的這個休假就說你委員那天只有停一天休假而已是週末喔哪一天112年的這一個"},{"start":4771.717,"end":4798.832,"text":"對5月26號嘛到7月1號的時候三天的休假對啊你請了三天的休假我剛剛說錯了嗎沒有沒有三天的休假對啊所以你剛剛說我這個什麼意思啊我沒講錯嘛三天嘛對不對好三天就三天了我的意思是說所以您剛剛講說那是因為他很遠喔在北美洲到台灣如果我這三天飛回來再飛過去那等於就是"},{"start":4799.372,"end":4820.025,"text":"妳裡面有六日的只有就是我剛剛講的那個道理啊6月26號到7月2號裡面有重疊到六日其他的都沒有那七天碰到六日的話其實還中間還有五天所以我想要我六日通通沒有休假全部都還是在跑行程我不管嘛但妳請了假就是請了假嘛我們從上面那都是我應該可以請的請休假對"},{"start":4821.366,"end":4840.442,"text":"都是合法的請休假我沒有說你不能請假我什麼時候會這樣講的我剛剛的問題是說您在這四次 112 113 113 114次的這個中間有重疊請假的這個部分的機票那也是像您剛剛所說的是由您自己來付費的嗎"},{"start":4841.202,"end":4853.216,"text":"委員我剛剛已經解釋過了齁我剛剛一開始就請休假所以我說那一段機票我自己買就不要用公務機票但是如果是前端我已經飛到哪裡去了我就地停留"},{"start":4854.48,"end":4872.119,"text":"那就沒有機票的問題啦就立庭留在那裡就沒有機票的問題就沒有機票的問題啦那我們可以看一下齁那過去呢也有您在擔任台北市議員的時候那開記者會去質詢這個勞工局長蘇瑩貴那時候你指控他就是呢9月補修扶爛我都很記得對"},{"start":4874.722,"end":4901.208,"text":"9月赴美考察橫跨兩個週休10月把這個週休的工價拿出來補休你認為這是所謂的補休氾濫跟制度錯亂但是補休一樣是人家合理的可以請假的假期但你卻認為當時的你卻認為如果在考察中間委員不一樣他是去考察我是去執行公務他那段行程結束就沒有了就全部是私人的了我是因為兩段中間"},{"start":4902.788,"end":4921.005,"text":"妳去 本來妳去執行公務還是妳自己因為妳是請假的狀態所以我沒有辦法去核實說妳是不是都在執行公務啊因為妳都已經請假啦我所有的公務當然都有同仁跟著當然都要寫報告這些東西都是已經公告上網的妳是不是其實還有去做很多私人的事情"},{"start":4921.966,"end":4933.531,"text":"我做我私人事情只有在我請休假的時間我才能做所以我講說你請休假的時候你也有在做你私人的事情所以我沒有用公務預算啊這樣有什麼問題嗎你這機票就從頭到尾的時候你中間這段請假的時候你就是有去做公務的事情委員你聽不懂我的意思嗎如果我飛回來再飛過去同樣一個地方那我是不是要多兩張公務機票到底我在幫國家"},{"start":4947.316,"end":4971.894,"text":"省錢 還是我在幫國家花更多錢你把你自己個人的休假在國外我告訴你 過去的做法我跟你們聽我說嗎我根本不是這樣不要以小人之心度 君子之腹本人都不是這樣做的你知道有多少人檢舉你這個事情嗎我不知道那些人到底腦袋有沒有搞清楚第一 如果我一開始是請休假的我就是自己自付 機票"},{"start":4972.654,"end":4976.817,"text":"如果我是公務行程出去中間因為A到B我需要銜接所以我都會就地停留我就地停留的時候哪有衍生機票的問題我還是在執行公務啊那幾天過去的委員長做法可能他就排一天一個行程然後就繼續領公務費用然後就過了我是不願意這樣做所以我才跟同仁說我不要這樣搞我就是要清清楚楚"},{"start":4999.782,"end":5004.046,"text":"這三天不是什麼大型活動要做了我不要為了說度過這三天然後就各排一個活動然後請你那個費用我說我願意自己出錢那三天住在那裡我自己付旅館費用所以你那個請假的那幾天你的旅館費用都是自己付的當然是啊委員當然都是我自己出的錢耶"},{"start":5022.123,"end":5030.85,"text":"所以你覺得我這樣子是很不合理嗎我很合理好嗎我們了解一下因為您被檢舉了因為你剛剛說的那個小人之心我不能接受而且這個檢舉都是烏龍檢舉我都知道是誰檢舉的同一個人老是搞不清楚狀況很多都是我們在當地的僑胞有一些是我自己認識的朋友"},{"start":5042.079,"end":5068.82,"text":"他們就搞不清楚狀況說我們現在是怎麼狀況啊喬包也不會知道我們是什麼狀況啊他也不知道我下一個點去哪裡因為我不會告訴他我下一個點要去哪裡因為這是秘密所以我還是再提醒一下好不好因為這個事情在我這邊受到檢舉委員 本人不到三年的時間呢我請休假的我總共累積了200多天的假期228天我總共呢 休不到80天委員 你滿意嗎"},{"start":5072.262,"end":5077.467,"text":"哇 很好啊 你就繼續這樣我本來是童子薰的心情不想講這些話的"},{"start":5078.41,"end":5100.868,"text":"你逼我講出來了那很好啊讓你有一個澄清的機會啊謝謝但是不要小人之心我從來不這樣做的本人就是願意以私濟公好嗎以私濟公好但是呢我也要強調你們自己在做僑委會這個工作的時候也有非常多的真的非常多我就是知道以前有些狀況發生所以在我開始我就全部併結說不可以這樣做對如果不是這麼多人來檢舉的話我今天不會問這個問題"},{"start":5107.793,"end":5129.356,"text":"那我也不想把事情跟細節講得太難聽是因為裡面會涉及到一些你們個人的這個隱私的問題我都不怕檢視那在這個個人隱私上面來說你不怕檢視我還是要注意各自法的問題嘛所以既然有這麼多既然有這麼多的人檢舉是不是您也可以去了解一下說為什麼您做委員長到現在"},{"start":5131.057,"end":5146.842,"text":"我想沒有很多人 你知道的就是那幾個而已沒有沒有沒有 我知道的人一定不是你說的人謝謝許委員好 謝謝許委員這個事情有釐清就好了可能要了解一下僑委會的業務特性他的工作就是在海外跑"},{"start":5147.262,"end":5176.102,"text":"第二個可能非公務機關的人也分不清楚這個公務人員現在是請假或者是上班當中我覺得有釐清就好好 謝謝接下來進行尋找委員是葉原之委員是不是違反哪一條法律那你可以每天都不回家看自己老公啊我也沒有用機票啊"},{"start":5178.865,"end":5186.409,"text":"好那個請尊重開會秩序來主席要慢慢請那個委員長好委員長請葉委員長安"},{"start":5195.581,"end":5220.214,"text":"委員長早在我們的選區有一個華僑高中是應該非常熟是它比較特別的地方就是它是普通高中但它也有收僑生也有一班生對比較尷尬的是因為它是高中所以它就是歸教育部管對它就是歸教育部管國教署對 國教署但問題是其實它有大概學生裡面有三成是僑生對目前的人數是大概500多位對"},{"start":5221.554,"end":5247.044,"text":"華僑高通是一個非常好的學校學生很優秀我上次他校慶的時候我去他們學校碰到很多校友從世界各地來還有本地的都對學校的那段教育的經驗很肯定他們現在比較尷尬的是我剛剛講的因為國教署是把他當作一般的高中他並沒有注意到他實際上還有大概三成僑生"},{"start":5248.164,"end":5276.704,"text":"所以在人力的配置给的资源都是给一般的高中的资源但问题是那个我不知道委员长晓不晓得就是乔生他因为他们在台湾只有民意的监护人食衣住勤都在学校那还有适应的问题所以你如果用一般高中的那种人力配置给这个学校的话一定是不够的而且会压缩到比如说对于一般生的照顾的"},{"start":5278.425,"end":5300.945,"text":"所以有幾件事情第一個在教學資源方面我希望喬爾委會可以協助老師的人力我們現在都在關心學校都出現行政大逃亡的狀況就是很多老師都不願意兼行政職因為行政工作太繁重而且行政價值也很低不只是沒有給老師尊重也沒有給應有的待遇"},{"start":5301.525,"end":5325.228,"text":"那大家都不願意兼行政職那在華僑高中可能面臨的狀況就是他的行政業務一半以上都是跟僑生有關例如說要處理僑生的居留證等等要處理僑生的那個適應的問題那我不知道能不能僑友會能不能協助在這一塊你要嘛就是說跟國教署講就是說僑生有其特殊性希望他能夠給多的"},{"start":5326.334,"end":5332.396,"text":"人力 不然的話就是直接由僑委會編預算讓這個華僑高中可以多一點人力不知道這可不可以跟委員報告我確實上個禮拜才邀請了我們華僑高中的許校長以及三位主任一起到我們僑委會來進行座談就是我們基於了解說近年來到華僑高中的這一些僑生 高中生的人數呢有略為增加的狀態"},{"start":5353.704,"end":5361.406,"text":"那甚至那個校舍因為他們特別要住宿啊所以他們的空間不太夠因為我們時間很有限我這一次找教長來也是要跟他溝通這件事情要來協助他基本上就是說第一個我要先了解說他們目前的挑戰是哪些然後我們也協助去跟教育部進行這個相關的溝通委員長等一下我打岔一下因為你了解的狀況是因為他這一年的僑生暴增啊主要是因為緬甸僑生變多嘛"},{"start":5383.432,"end":5402.847,"text":"因為緬甸他們國內的問題嘛很多人就趕快趁這個時候但是長期來說委員因為我們有很多高中跟我們合作等一下因為華僑高中其實它不是新的學校啦它幾十年以後所以你現在才開始找要來其實主要原因是因為緬甸僑生增加的問題並不是說真的有注意到學校的狀況"},{"start":5403.567,"end":5429.454,"text":"那我現在是把學校的狀況跟妳講因為像我本人也是很關心就是不管是華僑高中也好一般高中也好比如說老師人力的問題那這個有關於老師人力的問題因為現在教育的狀況跟以前不一樣所以希望這個部分可以協助我們會跟教育局多教育部多要求第二個是輔導老師現在是15個班一個全國都一樣但是"},{"start":5430.114,"end":5458.243,"text":"如果像華僑高中有僑生融入各班的狀況嘛那一定也會產生文化差異啊或各方面他輔導老師跟委員報告僑生他們會獨立的班他們沒有融入式的有融入就是融入有…沒有…你講的是國中啦高中有融入不是 他們是有兩種一種叫做語文班一種就是一般高中班我講的是一般高中班啊對啊 一般高中班啊我講的都是一般高中嘛就是有一班生的也有僑生的嘛"},{"start":5458.723,"end":5463.349,"text":"那他可能也會有文化差異或各方面需要主導老師的量會比較多我的了解他們僑生還是在僑生班裡面並沒有合適沒有沒有沒有你再去了解一下有僑生班國中就是僑生班高中有農路對"},{"start":5474.683,"end":5495.801,"text":"但重點應該是說不管他是龍路或喬森班他就是會有適應問題一定是比一般高中需求更大我懂委員的意思就是需要有更多的輔導的老師的資源配備我們現在有先提供學生的部分就是說課學金因為主席站起來我很快講一下就是您回去研究一下好的還有一個就是"},{"start":5496.602,"end":5516.418,"text":"看能不能夠比照啦比如說像師大的那個僑生先修班它有一個專門的空間因為他們那個效力很大如果可以蓋一個比如說類似僑教大樓專門僑生然後學語文跟葉委員報告之前因為你之前的前一任的委員同樣的在這裡也跟我們問過同樣的問題所以我其實已經都知道這些相關的狀況了"},{"start":5517.788,"end":5545.17,"text":"沒有做啊不是你不能說你知道狀況我們只能反映給教育部的國教署現在的問題就是說因為國教署他沒有沒有僑委會那麼了解僑生的狀況嘛他們是針對一般學生嘛所以我們現在都加強跟國教署在協商這些事情那如果國教署不願意的話那僑委會能不能夠提供資源因為畢竟他是僑生嘛我們願意在我們的預算裡面擴增一點來協助"},{"start":5546.791,"end":5560.357,"text":"好不好 如果委員支持我們願意擴增一些我們當然支持啦好謝謝好謝謝委員各位請回蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在吳思瑤委員吳思瑤委員吳思瑤委員不在接下來進行巡禮委員林益君委員"},{"start":5573.798,"end":5575.544,"text":"謝謝主席有請徐委員長"},{"start":5582.714,"end":5588.438,"text":"林委員早安委員長早本席擔任立委將近兩年也與僑委會一起到國外參加僑台商的總會的會議了解我們這些其實海外辛苦打拼的台商他們是真的很辛苦所以今天本席想要針對僑委會如何協助海外僑台商的產業升級的發展的問題跟委員長就較"},{"start":5606.989,"end":5609.731,"text":"根據了解 僑委會為了協助海外橋台商企業的發展都會辦理經貿的培訓活動所以從109年開始僑委會就開始辦理了全球橋台商產業升級與技術服務的方案而且還主動邀集了國內14家研發的機構來協助全球的橋台商的產業升級和發展那我想請問一下委員長"},{"start":5632.648,"end":5634.049,"text":"你可以簡單說明一下這些台商升級服務方案的主要的內容還有特色嗎還有怎麼樣的協助他們呢"},{"start":5641.458,"end":5645.94,"text":"跟委員報告因為過去這個幾年當中疫情期間尤其是因為我們沒辦法做太多跨境的移動當時我們因此從前委員長就想到說要不要運用台灣的這些產學研的這個資訊來提供給海外的台商讓他們能夠增加"},{"start":5663.726,"end":5666.967,"text":"比方說產品的這個研發提升或者是他們的品牌的塑造等等這一方面的專業領域的協助那麼因此呢這個我們沒有額外再增加任何的預算經費就直接是跟國內的一些產學研的機構呢來請託說我們可不可以做一個平台來媒合大家比方說我們台灣的公研院來說就是一個輔導各種"},{"start":5692.893,"end":5697.135,"text":"工業、科技、產業最大的一個重鎮嘛那所以他們有非常多很好的研發的一些成果那我們就是介紹我們的這些橋台商讓他們去認識這個平台那麼他們如果有個案要委託給他們的時候這些產學研的單位呢都跟我們有簽一個MOU就是說諮詢階段不收費但是如果要個案委託那就去個案個別評估"},{"start":5720.885,"end":5724.207,"text":"那所以在這個當中呢橋尾會沒有衍生額外的預算只是說如果橋台商比方說他今天他的產業裡面他這一項產品他比方是做紡織的那他現在這個紡織業他有很多新的技術一直在提升他是想要拿到這些新的技術的話那他就要去跟他們簽約簽約以後就要付費"},{"start":5742.137,"end":5747.081,"text":"這個是做這樣子的一個媒合的平台角色而已那我再問一下就是說剛才委員長有說到就是說他們可以簽署一些合作的備忘錄那這樣的話我其實說看了這些就是從109年到114年的7月底就是到7月底的時候協輔的合作研發的機構還有台商組織"},{"start":5764.532,"end":5768.274,"text":"簽署的合作備忘錄其實數量整個從109年到現在其實才有23件然後今年的114年其實到現在都已經11月了竟然連一件都沒有簽署那成果就是等於是零所以請問一下委員長在一年過去的請問目前有沒有任何最新的具體的實質上面的進展呢"},{"start":5785.78,"end":5788.502,"text":"為什麼這個經銷會怎麼那麼慘 原因到底是什麼還有沒有什麼未來的可以精進作為來解決呢好跟委員說明就是為什麼今年都沒有是因為他們之前都簽完了意思就是說前面這23件都是以國家別或洲際別 比方說用"},{"start":5805.356,"end":5809.137,"text":"亞總亞洲台商總會或者世界台商總會或者泰國台商總會都是以這種組織形態的方式去跟這個產學研的單位去簽這個約但是他們的member他們的會員如果個案要委託那是他們私下的另外有他們自己的合作契約那個部分是要付錢的那備忘錄是不用付錢的"},{"start":5832.446,"end":5845.354,"text":"只只單單是在諮詢的作用而已那所以個案型的簽約的部分有多少件事實上我們因為產學研單位很多那我們也曾經跟他們詢問他們說有些個資資料他們不能提供是基於這樣所以我們沒有去統計這個資料出來是由於他們要保護他們的這個委託業者所以有些業者願意自己說的我們就會知道"},{"start":5857.401,"end":5864.823,"text":"那有些業者如果不願意透露那他跟這個工研院啊或者跟這個農研院啊或者跟經研院啊等等這些不同的單位去簽合約的時候我不一定會可以掌握到這個資訊因為我們現在看了114年的話是那因為我們大部分能夠有興趣去簽的這個州總會跟國的總會差不多已經都簽完了啦"},{"start":5881.408,"end":5884.77,"text":"所以就不會再有了嗎等於是115年之後除非我們再開發一些新的研發單位對他們的產業是有幫助的那可能就會有機會所以未來會往這方面努力嗎我們還會我們會因為台灣是一個講求創新研發的一個這樣的國度所以我們也會鼓勵我們橋台商說大家尤其現在這個對等關稅發生以後"},{"start":5905.62,"end":5919.971,"text":"那你的產業鏈重組過程當中事實上你要經營的市場如果是比較高端的那你一定要提升你要提升你就需要這些新的一些研發的這個機制的單位那我再問一下還有另外的時間"},{"start":5921.132,"end":5945.314,"text":"已經不多了再問一下就是僑委會在105年度的時候是不是有配合當年蔡政府積極推行的新南向政策的計畫僑委會在那一年的時候也規劃了一個財團法人海外信用保證基金配合新南向政策的增資的計畫但是本席根據僑委會海外信用的保證基金提供給本院的預算中心的資料有發現"},{"start":5946.255,"end":5959.729,"text":"最近的6年來109年到114年辦理授信的保證金額都在111年度都達到最高峰然後開始逐年都一直在下降那甚至到今年7月底才承接做190件"},{"start":5961.591,"end":5963.992,"text":"那跟過去來比是真的非常差太多了那我只是想請問一下委員長你知道原因是怎麼樣嗎還有就是說你認為如果海外信保基金整體的業績還是都沒有顯著的成長的話那這樣的話僑委會是否會開始考慮停止增資否則會不會又是政府預算的乾坤呢跟委員報告"},{"start":5986.425,"end":5989.767,"text":"海外信保基金已經成立30多年了早期從財政部金管會最後移給僑委會那僑委會在106年民國106年開始那個是因為配合新南向政策所以當時的吳前委員長時代有跟行政院特別說明說我們的基金規模那時候不到10億那10億的話你可以做到只有100億的這個美金的這個壽性"},{"start":6014.04,"end":6020.022,"text":"額度而已 因此不夠所以當時行政院就核定了說這個海外信保基金要再加增資20億但是這20億呢 並不是都是公務預算其中4成呢 這個海外信保基金要自己去募款"},{"start":6029.085,"end":6052.547,"text":"那你募到了國家才給你挹注這個公務基金的撥補所以我們一開始有公股銀行民股銀行第一階段有捐了一些所以我們就根據他捐的這個比例來相對六成的撥補可是到後來因為疫情發生就停止了一段時間那疫情期間確實有很多的小中小型廠商他因為要度過那個急難為救助的狀態"},{"start":6055.109,"end":6076.333,"text":"所以我們當時有一些專案所以那幾年當中的這個貸款額度相對比較高那今年為什麼低也很簡單是因為大家都在觀望因為從今年四月開始對等關稅以後大家都沒有一個定論所以大家都不願意再投資所以就停在那裡所以這些增資計畫就因此相對的數量減少以上跟委員說明 謝謝好 謝謝林益君委員 謝謝接下來進行訓導委員 林倩琦委員"},{"start":6090.506,"end":6091.188,"text":"好 謝謝張偉我們請徐委員長來 委員長請"},{"start":6100.263,"end":6116.338,"text":"委員長您好本席今天關心的是我國的多元文化如何在國際場域當中能夠被看見尤其是南島原住民族文化的推廣與外交的運用本席在你們的預算書裡面第22款第1項第3目裡面看到有僑民僑團聯繫接待及僑教中心的一個服務下面"},{"start":6123.764,"end":6144.261,"text":"那115年編了大概1700多萬那麼主要是用於加強僑社聯繫跟輔助辦理多元活動那麼你們的施政計畫裡面有說這個整個核心目標是要辦理台灣的多元文化節慶及支持台灣參與國際組織的活動提高國際能見度但是本席在看到你們113年的實施成果"},{"start":6147.564,"end":6170.575,"text":"活動內容大部分集中在元旦、春節、二二八和平紀念日跟雙十國慶等主流節慶相對的也是比較漢族的節慶也不能算是很具體的呈現台灣多元文化的樣貌也沒有南島原住民族文化的推廣尤其是在今年紀念日、節日條例實施之後"},{"start":6172.936,"end":6189.844,"text":"那麼原住民日跟原住民族的傳統節慶也相對的又更被重視了那麼當我們在談台灣的時候都離不開表現原住民族文化但是在這項如果沒有被納入這個多元外交是不是有點空談所以本席這邊想要請教"},{"start":6191.064,"end":6217.397,"text":"就是目前僑委會推動的多元文化外交活動裡面有沒有針對南島文化或原住民族文化的具體的專案例如說跟原住民族委員會或者是文化部、教育部來合作能夠將原住民的音樂、服飾、記憶、語言納入僑教推廣的內容當中第二個部分是在僑教中心的一個活動設計當中或僑教中心的展示有沒有以原住民族文化為主題的"},{"start":6218.377,"end":6240.825,"text":"慶典、講座或展演甚至一些展示所以我們都講南島文化是很重要的核心我們常常的論述都是從台灣出發的南島航線延伸到整個太平洋島國但我們也知道南島的範圍其實到了東非也到了西"},{"start":6242.126,"end":6268.625,"text":"就南美的西邊但是如果我們在這個部分沒有很實質的被看到的話那是不是我們的文化話語權其實有點空談所以這個部分的業務是不是可以跟您這邊請教一下那目前先前我讀到的是這樣那我們知道常常帶出去的團體很多原住民但是原住民為主體的在國外的話語權其實在各部會常常都被稀釋那您的看法"},{"start":6268.865,"end":6272.286,"text":"謝謝林委員的提問我覺得這問題對我們來說是真的非常重要過去在三年我在僑委會的這個期間我們都有積極的跟客委會原委會的主委以及他們相關的單位去聯繫甚至我們海外的這個僑教中心因為非常多的僑團希望能夠展演一些原住民的舞蹈文化等等的元素所以我們也都開始編列預算去採購"},{"start":6295.555,"end":6299.239,"text":"16族的服飾然後放在我們的喬教中心讓我們的喬團可以來租借因為文化權這些概念是很重要的每一族有每一族不同的這個文化服飾跟他們相關的道具所以我們基於尊重這一種文化的資產權我們都開始朝向這樣的方向在走"},{"start":6315.754,"end":6328.844,"text":"那其次第二個就是說事實上台灣本來就是多元文化所以我們向來都把原住民文化客家文化各種的不同的文化都把它融入在我們僑社活動的補助上面所以如果僑社在各種節慶當中他們想要呈現哪一種文化我們就會幫他給予補助所以剛剛你念到很多這個相關的經費很多都是我們在給他們補助雖然經費不是很多但是是一種鼓勵另外我也會提供資訊這是針對僑社嘛"},{"start":6343.254,"end":6347.395,"text":"同時我也會提供資訊給他說那這個部分你可以跟原委會哪個單位來接洽客委會哪個單位你可以來接洽像我們也推動一些語言的部分那台語跟華語就是由我僑委會主責在推動但是如果是客語我就是請客委會來推動因為我們的那個預算規模委員長其實另外還有一點本市其實以前在教育委員會也跟他們提過"},{"start":6368.019,"end":6385.019,"text":"那也請你們追蹤一下目前跟你們比較相關也就是原住民語言其實是有認證是的但是其實他們在推動的時候也常常透過僑委會僑社可是你知道原住民語言被認證其實有很多外國人對這個部分是有興趣的本席在學外語的時候比如碰到一個德國老師"},{"start":6385.56,"end":6398.449,"text":"他就是當時賽德克族還沒被證明的時候他就已經來研究賽德克所以這個東西如果也能夠透過僑委會或僑社讓大家知道台灣在原住民語的多元認證我想這個業務也是比較實質的跟委員報告這個語言認證的部分像華語的認證台語的認證其實還是教育部在負責"},{"start":6405.294,"end":6425.294,"text":"我們只是協助他有據點跟幫他散佈訊息溝通我們會把原住民語言文化跟客家語言文化都當作跟一般的重要同等重要去做宣傳我們有各組應該各16組通通都有認證非常認同委員的看法"},{"start":6427.076,"end":6451.911,"text":"最後我還要再提醒一點以剛才您所講我相信原住民在作為客體上基本上常常是被展示的但是作為一個主體其實這個概念目前還不是太清楚所以你們雖然在這個僑教中心可能有一些展示本席這邊希望你們能夠做得再更積極一點有沒有可能有一些原住民族專區甚至過去在集體遷移的像我們農耕隊有些都已經在國外落腳"},{"start":6452.912,"end":6470.606,"text":"你們是不是可以多注意一下整個原住民在國外的比例上比較多的一個團體跟地區那這個部分可以在某一些施政的階段當中多一點著力委員這點我在上任不到三年時間我已經開始著力很多"},{"start":6471.306,"end":6488.8,"text":"我們幾乎沒有原住民的榮譽職人員那我上來以後我說我們台灣是多元文化多族群的一個社會所以我們應當要有一些代表性那當然原住民在海外人數相對是很少那也因為很少所以我們要更加用心比較形單一致啦對所以我們也是特別的去注意"},{"start":6492.804,"end":6500.453,"text":"有些原住民在哪些區塊 哪些國家如果有 我們會特別鼓勵他們也鼓勵他們組成組織然後我們也提名他們作為促進委員等等來協助他們讓他們慢慢地成長起來是 所以就有一個很快的提示"},{"start":6507.381,"end":6522.151,"text":"第三個建議第一個 僑委會應該要提出難道原住民族文化推動的一個行動方案列明年的年度計畫然後海外據點的一個合作然後跟原民會還有文化部很強力的一個協作那第二個就是應該把"},{"start":6523.112,"end":6548.716,"text":"多元文化及外交的成果納入你們的政績跟施政報告那我們至少可以從這個量化指標看到文化的一個多樣性那最後一個呢就是麻煩您再強化更加的強化海外的這個喬教中心與南島國家文化機構之合作然後推動南島文化交流記或太平洋島國的文化周讓世界從文化層面理解台灣的歷史根源跟族群的多元好的"},{"start":6548.916,"end":6563.628,"text":"我們在亞太區的喬教中心我們會加強這一塊因為確實我們在南島嶼系是在亞太區為主所以我們會來這樣努力謝謝委員謝謝那會後也請將你們過去這個部分有做的我們會來匯整一些資料提供給林委員參考謝謝謝謝林倩琦委員接下來我們請王定宇召委上台質詢"},{"start":6584.093,"end":6587.295,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩委員長請問委員長王兆偉早安委員長今天你多開了一個主題我想這個部分要釐清一下"},{"start":6598.612,"end":6614.994,"text":"中國的跨境鎮壓或者是長臂管轄事實上在歐美世界各主流國家是不僅不予承認甚至於驅離了中國住在當地國的假公安因為他們用民間的身份紐約還逮捕了一名"},{"start":6615.973,"end":6640.738,"text":"不只紐約舊金山也有 所以跨境鎮壓或者是這個所謂的長臂管轄是一個侵犯他人內政而且用政治的理由透過刑事犯罪的模式來進行政治迫害這世界各國是不能接受的所以我剛才本席聽到蠻震驚的你說以沈伯陽委員為例 事實上沈伯陽委員我才剛從國外回來"},{"start":6642.233,"end":6660.667,"text":"我們去了幾個國家沒有問題我看到有些人講說陳柏安剛剛出國我剛剛搭的那班飛機也飛得蠻穩的也沒什麼亂流都回來了所以你剛才講到新加坡你認為未來可能需要列入警示我要嚴肅的問你你這是個人的判斷還是經過國安會議的確認"},{"start":6664.543,"end":6688.516,"text":"我剛剛提的兩個方向一個是說我們僑委會的同仁跟我在內不能去的原因是那個是另外一個那個跟中國因素沒有直接的那個是政治干擾還不到用政治的理由進行長臂管轄的迫害這個是有距離的越南那一次事實上我們都知道發生什麼事情所以我現在要講的因為剛才點到一個特定國家"},{"start":6689.476,"end":6699.003,"text":"對 新加坡因為近來新任總理黃總理他在對外的表達內容我們還是要回來因為外交部門我現在就以沈伯陽委員為例我認為是他會提高風險是說提高風險你沒有聽懂我的問題你剛才的風險是來自於你個人的判斷或者是國安團隊的判斷我個人的判斷那不能這樣子"},{"start":6716.004,"end":6730.526,"text":"本席強烈的建議你不能這樣子這是對外事務不是你的職權你怎麼可以個人判斷呢在國會裡面可以這樣判斷嗎這會引起事情的我也有個人判斷啦我可以啊我只是一個民意代表"},{"start":6732.506,"end":6749.994,"text":"你是政府官員的一部分你剛才那事情會引起風波因為新加坡就我了解到目前為止並沒有列入警示多數國家並沒有列入警示委員我說明一下我們如果自己嚇自己讓中國的長臂管轄形成了心理恫嚇的作用"},{"start":6752.435,"end":6768.704,"text":"那新加坡對他跟中國的態度跟台灣的態度有時候我們看了不喜歡也剛剛在上個月有一位是香港的民運人士他也曾經擔任過這個重要的政黨的領袖他受邀去新加坡參加一個研討會那麼他從英國他其實已經是規劃英國籍了那他那一次從美國搭機去到新加坡參加這個研討會卻被滯留在機場然後原機全返"},{"start":6780.77,"end":6800.197,"text":"這我還是要告訴你差異在哪裡這也是有中國戒律的痕跡在這裡面新加坡會受中國影響會禁止一些人進去就像當時越南一樣跟進去你可能被逮捕 解送中國那個距離差很遠所以這個東西要嚴謹新加坡黃巡柴跟李強的對話"},{"start":6802.253,"end":6829.23,"text":"我們不喜歡啊我們也發表抗議我們是以國家外交單位正式發表抗議告訴這個國家當朋友不是這樣子在外交上不支持跟反對這兩個term這兩個詞令是完全不一樣的意思這個是外交但是當我們要指涉某一國我們要列入警示的時候他影響到是商務旅遊政治很多方面的往來這個不能基於個人的臆測或判斷這是一個國家的態度本席"},{"start":6830.611,"end":6849.782,"text":"我收回我剛剛說的續期我建議你收回那你收回是個好的態度因為那個不是一個我們也認為要推理那個國家可能跟國家正式的研判不一樣你是政府的部長級的官員這是一個涉外事務那我回到我今天要問的委員長先請回請信保基金的董事長"},{"start":6854.744,"end":6862.075,"text":"那個侯麗楊董事長我們目前信保基金的承保2024年的件數跟金額多少"},{"start":6863.235,"end":6886.098,"text":"到9月底的話是大概2024喔2024去年到348件348件嘛我印象你們去年喔不錯喔348件有284件是新南向顯示我們政府這個基金而且很多人以為這個錢會變成政府的黑洞搞錯了啦 信保基金不管是中小信保或海外信保你是叫銀行做錢給他啦"},{"start":6888.52,"end":6907.96,"text":"風險評估徵信一模一樣啦該連徵還是要連徵那個是銀行借錢只是透過你們你們做信用的擔保可以把一定的額度免擔保給他那未來要收回的時候你們有一份嘛所以信保基金的運作不是拿政府的錢給民間商業在用而是透過政府"},{"start":6908.621,"end":6936.635,"text":"去做一個窗口的服務銀行的體系的資金可以更活絡的運用協助在政策方面所以你們去年做的是對的248件裡面284件是跟新南向有關也顯示我們台橋商在新南向國家的商業相當活絡那你們去年的金額好像是到多少到2億5千萬美金嘛 是這個2億5千萬美金是銀行放出去的不是 林橋委會"},{"start":6938.756,"end":6965.667,"text":"時代加起來沒有那麼多錢啦我們信保大概是兩億啦你們信保是擔保用的啦我講的是兩億五千萬美金是那個母錢借出去那是銀行的錢你們原來年度目標是一億八嘛所以表示也高過你們的預計好這是去年今年我剛有聽到委員長解釋了可能因為對等關稅全球的商業活動緊縮所以投資有收所以今年有稍微今年的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":6966.407,"end":6986.217,"text":"今年的話事實上統一到九月底事實上我們跟去年同期比較的話事實上還稍微多了一點點所以今年其實還是有點成長那分部的區域勒事實上也是一樣新南向大概佔了八成以上行業別呢行業別的話應該還是以製造業為主我會建議信保基金其實大家"},{"start":6987.133,"end":7013.156,"text":"有时候认为侨委会的业务其实侨委会的业务蛮有意思的信保基金如果按照你的你这一个承保的对象行业别地域就是分布区域以及它的营业额资本额以及是Joint是合资的或者是独资的你分析出来之后可以概括看到我们台湾的生意全世界最厉害的生意人就是犹太人跟台湾人"},{"start":7014.221,"end":7019.14,"text":"所以你就可以看到這個走的趨勢跟走向我不知道你們信保基金有沒有這方面的報告"},{"start":7020.57,"end":7043.491,"text":"我們是有消防資料那個其實抓幾個參數跑一下就出來了可以有一份報告給我們委員會嗎或甚至於我建議你可以公佈你們信訪基金可以公佈我們去年不錯我做到百分之將近200百分之一百七八十趴然後台橋商非常活絡我們是日不落日不落的商業王國台灣那是好事那就根據地域我們的資金分佈往哪裡走"},{"start":7044.492,"end":7065.361,"text":"這個行業別是往傳產服裝食品或者是高科技你把它分類出來之後其實它是一個好的業務報告我會建議信保或者委員長這邊這個報告我們希望可以看到我最好建議的事情是你們現在把單一關係人的這個承保從200萬美金提高到300萬美金你覺得夠嗎"},{"start":7067.82,"end":7094.605,"text":"目前的話我們自己也是調查過那目前的話這樣的一個金額目前是大多數的台商是可以接受的當然因為也涉及到我們本身承保能量問題風險的評估連增是銀行端會做只要信用沒有問題當然銀行就是錢出去滾錢回來所以有兩個所謂的夠或不夠就是我們的資金面是不是願意提高搞不好銀行有這個需求"},{"start":7095.796,"end":7111.052,"text":"供給面另外一個是需求面因為你現在就是200到300他就覺得夠而且你這樣的規模吸引到的企業就是特定的企業一定level以上他不會找你們富士康什麼的他就自己去辦連帶他怎麼會找你們所以我才會建議"},{"start":7112.613,"end":7132.679,"text":"僑委會這一個滾動式的調整在沒有跟你們來借錢的人就沒有透過你們來承保的人跟銀行端問問看說300萬美金你們不來借原因太少了跟你們借不夠或怎麼樣子是不是該適度的提高把你的服務層次往上拉因為那樣子的規模會不一樣"},{"start":7133.559,"end":7162.999,"text":"跨國的企業跟資金會影響它的規模這第一個建議第二個建議也許不是信保而是信保多一個業務你超過我的額度了我300萬美金緊繃啊但是信保你是台橋商我做媒合我協助你跟國內在海外有OBU的或有在海外放款的做進行連帶或者進行貸款像我最近有看到一個案例它本身你知道全世界這許家慶你也知道最有名的花旗參是哪一家的"},{"start":7164.34,"end":7185.254,"text":"跟你的音有點像就是他們想要把因為美中貿易戰花旗聲中國就不買了就威斯康星州就是鴻海辦公的威斯康星州他們的花旗聲全部蹲跌下我們台灣本來我們台灣花旗聲的量有相當的量"},{"start":7186.22,"end":7207.796,"text":"然後也要跟他購買那這一個台橋商說那乾脆我把它蹲在城口一回一方面幫助國家降低赤字二方面我可以進行更高的我把威斯康辛州四分之一到一半的花旗參買下來可是他需要資金的協助發現所有的信保基金額度都沒有到那裡類似這樣子的台橋商"},{"start":7209.013,"end":7235.325,"text":"也許信保基金或喬爾會主動媒合那一方面降低赤字二方面擴大我們在威州的影響力我只舉這個例子所以那個許氏花旗生我知道對你我一講就知道了因為在海外跑的人聽到花旗生一定只想到一家沒有第二家有還有第二家這間比較有名好那我們就是這些建議那另外那個薛委員剛才那個有關陳柏洋部分我建議你正式把它收回來好的謝謝感謝委員謝謝王定宇召委"},{"start":7248.22,"end":7253.325,"text":"好謝謝林軍委員代理組織謝謝那我們接下來進行詢問委員是馬文君委員謝謝主席麻煩請委員長委員長請"},{"start":7269.778,"end":7290.234,"text":"好 委員長早安今天我們就僑委會的業務報告的部分有幾個問題請教第一個就是僑委會為了佩服政府的投資人才政策在112年到115年推動了擴大培育以及留用僑生這個中長"},{"start":7291.195,"end":7294.158,"text":"中長城的這個計劃案當然我們是鼓勵海外僑生來台升學那也會依產業的需求調整課程設計發展具有產業合作特色的這些僑生專班我們看到今天的報告內容因為我們也很清楚的知道其實我們有很多國內的產業尤其像一些餐飲業服務業"},{"start":7313.414,"end":7328.966,"text":"其實大概也透過這樣子的一個像這樣的一個學生或者就學的這些 對就會用到這樣子的一個人力可是我們看到今天的報告裡面我們從這個圖表上面看到我們從103年其實就已經開始在推辦這樣子的一個"},{"start":7339.734,"end":7362.409,"text":"產系專班的這樣子的一個高中學生就讀那103年的時候其實我們承辦的學校只有兩所那我們在不斷增加的情況之下到113年已經高達27所承辦學校它核定的人數從最早的350個人一直到現在今年已經113年到7558人可是我們看到就是說從112年"},{"start":7368.433,"end":7379.438,"text":"到113年這最後兩年的這個為什麼會有這麼大的變化就是就讀期間就離校中斷學習他從去112年是182人離校那113年已經高達472人這已經是倍數的一個成長那大概是什麼樣的原因"},{"start":7394.525,"end":7416.804,"text":"確實我們在112年的時候有發現一些問題所以本來111年更多比例也更高之前都蠻高的後來我們有發現一些狀況就開始來協助學生不過有三個大的方向第一個就是說他可能語言能力還不足所以他的學習低落因此他的適應力也不夠因此他就"},{"start":7418.385,"end":7428.31,"text":"錯則回去第二個常常是因為家裡有發生事情那這些來讀書的孩子通常是比較弱勢的家庭所以他家裡一旦發生事情的時候他就會選擇說他先離開那第三個是近期我們有發現也有一些學生開始被一些不法集團詐騙那所以因為這樣子他們就會背負上一些刑事的責任"},{"start":7441.657,"end":7445.661,"text":"就提前離開那所以我們發現了這幾個大項目以後呢我們就開始逐年的從去年開始我們就積極的開始做這些提醒跟預防的措施請學校一定要在新生訓練的時候就幫助學生然後也逐年提高他們的華語能力那麼今年的應該說去年的472人"},{"start":7463.439,"end":7466.442,"text":"這個數字是比前一年112年高但是還是比前幾年相對來講算低啦那我會請我們處長來特別加強了解這些學生離開的原因委員長"},{"start":7478.075,"end":7482.257,"text":"因為你剛剛有講到三個原因如果是家庭因素當然我們沒有辦法可是另外兩個我想其實也講到了重點比如說像語文能力我們現在是他只要會講我們就認定他是喬生甚至不像以前這麼嚴格我們現在比如說我們要出國的時候你包括你都必須要通過托普 亞斯這樣子的一些"},{"start":7505.026,"end":7519.579,"text":"測驗以後其實你才有辦法出去學習念書等等那現在我們入學達到的標準大概只有A1的程度那畢業以後他只要達到A2的程度其實我們現在其實常常在外面也會碰到比如說你這樣去餐廳吃飯的時候可能就是有一些產學合作的一個學生他們來的時候你甚至跟他說我要多一份碗筷他聽不懂"},{"start":7529.668,"end":7532.51,"text":"他還必須再跑回去再找人來協助所以我想其實這樣子的宇文程度你在這樣子的一個服務業或餐飲業或者其他的產業別都已經面臨到這樣的生活的一個可能會"},{"start":7545.319,"end":7560.927,"text":"在漢格的情況之下那就更不用說學習了所以這是一個很大的問題那我們現在又編列更多的預算所以我想他沒有達到這樣的程度那在學的學生有沒有語文加強的做法"},{"start":7562.108,"end":7570.077,"text":"有 委員你這個問題真的是很關鍵而且也是直接到位所以我們也是意識到說如何讓學生在來台灣以前以前我們訂了這個所謂240小時或者只是A1程度其實不夠"},{"start":7577.785,"end":7581.247,"text":"我們現在檢班的做法有兩項第一項就是在海外的時候加開一些華語研習營讓他們強化密集學習第二個是我們在國內的部分我們現在第一學期進來的時候呢前兩個月前一個學期他必須要先學到一個程度經過我們的測驗測驗有通過我才讓他去廠家做實習如果他沒有通過他就繼續在學校讀書"},{"start":7601.218,"end":7613.952,"text":"所以這兩年已經開始跟教育部這個部分我們希望看到相對的成果因為在這裡只是用口頭說我想今年已經開始破十那既然已經做了我們就是在校期間因為你只有來跟畢業嘛"},{"start":7616.875,"end":7637.374,"text":"一個A1一個A2嘛所以在這中間的過程當中要怎麼樣去強化我覺得這個可能把它具體的一個成效還有做法提供書面好不好第二個就是你剛剛也提到其實被不法集團利用我覺得這是非常嚴重的問題因為他們來的時候其實大概都是國中畢業而已所以其實像這樣子的一個"},{"start":7639.256,"end":7647.302,"text":"人力的一個來源被濫用或者被不法集團利用我想這不是只有叫學校去做宣導這個也嚴重影響到我們的治安或者我們其他可能會牽涉到的一個形式的一個案件所以我想具體的做法也把它提出來好不好我覺得不是只有請學校去宣導"},{"start":7663.674,"end":7684.418,"text":"然後在什麼新生訓練做什麼樣的一個這樣的一個強化我覺得都不足那因為很明顯的看到這將近300人他離校他發生的原因還是要把他具體化怎麼樣去做改善好的那這兩個部分再請我們會盡快把資料匯整起來送委員辦公室"},{"start":7685.258,"end":7713.186,"text":"另外就是我們看到因為在最我們在僑民異難身份的認定機制上面其實我們有做了調整對不對我們因應這個議政司的相關行政命令的修正我們在執行面上協助他們對內政部他是為了預防假僑民徵逃兵這個部分我們當然尊重國家的政策因為如果說要做逃兵的這樣子的一個"},{"start":7714.427,"end":7718.27,"text":"作為我想這個大家都不能接受可是我們要看到的是你這個9月才修正的規劃我國國籍者歸國僑民服役辦法9月才修正然後9月8號就開始執行他的目的是什麼為什麼要急著在9月8號因為我們通常有很多政策在推動的時候通常會定到某月的1號"},{"start":7737.987,"end":7744.613,"text":"因為你在公告或者修正的情況之下他甚至沒有任何的一個緩衝就是一些不達的時間什麼原因這個部分因為僑委會有參與因為我們看到僑委會是在最快的我們看到"},{"start":7757.183,"end":7768.575,"text":"9月20號僑委會才公布的那你9月8號就開始執行外交部駐外館最早的大概也是9月13號所以就委員長你知道的為什麼是9月8號我的理解內政部他們草案開始做這個諮詢的時候已經是7月份就開始了然後"},{"start":7779.927,"end":7792.295,"text":"委員長因為我說的是你9月才修正因為我們看到的就是公告的這些日期他太倉促你今天一個政策可以這麼草率然後就把它推出來主席不好意思我借一下時間現在他衍生什麼樣的問題剛剛我們說我們尊重整個國家的政策我們不希望有造假的一個狀況可是這個部分已經造成許多逸臨起從19歲到36歲華僑的不便"},{"start":7806.784,"end":7823.242,"text":"因為你在申請文件的時候比如說我是國外的華僑我回來我可能在工作或在念書我回來可能一個禮拜或十天這樣的時間可是你為了要辦這些你必須僑委會跟移民署都必須要臨會辦理"},{"start":7824.984,"end":7829.968,"text":"移民署各縣市還有喔然後敲回會你只有在台北那我今天如果只回來七天我要回去的時候然後議政司是可以在線上審查不過他最短也需要兩個工作天你這些都很順利的情況之下經過這三個單位最少需要四天今天我如果回來要度假或者回來探望家人或者回來工作或者有什麼樣的銜接我根本沒有辦法去預測我什麼時候可以把它辦好"},{"start":7853.445,"end":7855.466,"text":"所以就這個部分因為時間的關係就這幾個點我們希望僑委會去把它包括跟內政部因為畢竟僑包是你們的一個權責所以怎麼樣讓大家不要說到時候我想要趕回去工作我要回去念書結果我時間卡在這裡出不去那就很大的問題"},{"start":7876.897,"end":7883.542,"text":"不會產生這個問題是因為內政部的這個修正當中他有寬限四個月也就是說如果你緊急回來兩天三天我們要的不是你的寬限今天他可以回頭再辦這個程序你聽我講完我今天回國如果只有一個禮拜或只有十天我回來敢辦任何重要的事情的話我沒有辦法在時間內回去因為你光是這些就站了四天然後如果中間還卡到假期的話你根本回來都沒有辦法辦事"},{"start":7906.539,"end":7917.607,"text":"所以這個部分要如何去精進至少你讓大家知道說我應該用多少時間可以去辦這些事情因為你這樣子等於我把相關資料整好給你好不好接下來如果有什麼樣比較精進的做法提供相關的資料因為有很多僑胞其實是在做陳情反應他說因為這樣大家以後都不用拿中國護照你不是要"},{"start":7930.936,"end":7955.428,"text":"這要爭取向心力嗎我們的邱委會的功能就是這樣結果你讓大家以後我乾脆就不要拿中華民國護照進來就好了所以這個部分我們要怎麼做改善提供比較具體的我們會加強這方面的相關作為給委員參考謝謝委員詞詮詢 謝謝看看線上能不能處理思考一下科技跟驗證的方式我們接下來進行詢答的委員陳冠廷委員"},{"start":7964.369,"end":7986.25,"text":"你好我們請委員長委員長請陳委員長安委員長好簡單的請教一下關於這個華僑身分證明書的驗證程序是因為有聽到一些民眾在表示說可能有一些訊息需要這個正式的這種回應"},{"start":7987.368,"end":8011.646,"text":"那刚才几位委员应该有提到说为了维护这个议政的公平所以从今年9月开始我们就有修改规定就是侨民意难一定要拿到侨委会合八的议政用华侨身份证才可以出境但是改用的这个身份证明书的申请流程跟条件目前侨报是有点反映说讯息还是没有很一致很混乱"},{"start":8012.506,"end":8039.815,"text":"那所以我们希望说政策可不可以让同步让第一线的这个乔屋秘书掌握来去做澄清跟协助好的比方说现在我们听到的是说如果没有乔如果是没有乔包没有这个乔居的家庭护照那第一次申请的这个议政用华侨身份证明书他需要提供乔居地的居留证明那是第121条规定"},{"start":8040.675,"end":8056.512,"text":"那如果說僑居地他居留上面的資訊不是用英文登載的話那可能是馬來文或者是泰文的話那為了要這個審查方便的話應該是要附中文的譯本然後而且要應經住外管處來去驗證"},{"start":8057.853,"end":8075.504,"text":"住外管處是指我們中華民國派出去的住外管處可是僑委會的官網上面是說明說如果申請譯證用華僑申命證明書他的相關的居留證明書無需經住外管處驗證所以現在是要申請譯本還是"},{"start":8076.444,"end":8098.815,"text":"跟委員說明事實上是這樣子要來申請議政用華僑身份證明他要帶中華民國有效護照然後第二個就是外國護照或永久居留權居留證或者長期居留證那第三個呢是這個叫做移民署的這個入出境的資料"},{"start":8100.857,"end":8118.034,"text":"那這個可以回到國內再跟移民署來申請這個入出境資料就夠了是自出生開始的那前面這兩項呢事實上他如果是本人拿的正式文本來我們這邊辦理那其實不需要再去"},{"start":8119.435,"end":8127.659,"text":"駐外管處認證要驗證的原因是他要弄副本所謂的影印本的時候才需要去驗證如果正本來我們就不會讓他幫他這個做說還要去驗證的問題那有關於"},{"start":8134.682,"end":8146.748,"text":"拘留證這個部分因為有些是用外文所寫的那如果是外文所寫的話當事人自己翻譯簽名就可以連同證本翻譯然後簽名連同證本讓我們查驗就可以了並不需要去駐外管處或者是他國的這個外交單位再進行認證這可能是有資訊解讀上的這個落差"},{"start":8162.336,"end":8167.837,"text":"那什麼時候是需要去認證呢是指說你如果要委託你的家屬朋友幫你代辦的時候那可是你自己的文件都還在手上啊所以你沒有證本可以提供我們查核這種狀況下你才需要在駐外管處先去驗證說你這個資料證本為真然後他會弄一個影本給你蓋好章所以這個部分呢"},{"start":8187.122,"end":8192.526,"text":"送回來的時候這個就需要翻譯那翻譯也是一樣就是正本查驗過以後的資料自行翻譯好簽名就可以了所以都沒有說太複雜的一個手續只不過我們可能資訊的提供上過去可能還不夠所以有些僑民可能就因此呢誤會了以為所有的翻譯跟所有的文件通通要先經過認證事實上是不需要的"},{"start":8215.36,"end":8229.646,"text":"對OK好謝謝委員長那第二個部分委員長你有提到關於橋屋秘書的一個人力配置因為拓展橋屋的服務據點大概可能是你目前很重視的一個施政目標"},{"start":8230.586,"end":8246.143,"text":"那我也知道說這個教育會很難跟這個人事行政總署都要緣額所以教育會現在是先縮編這個海外的駐外的人力就是因為為了要拓展所以我們要先做好"},{"start":8246.724,"end":8250.626,"text":"先把人力做一些調配跟委員說明Arizona確實在增加僑胞啦有不管長期或短期的那我們現在都是還有洛杉磯的僑胞洛杉磯的僑教中心在兼轄那事實上我們沒有要縮編今年是因為有一些調動的因素所以暫時從兩人三人變兩人但是我們明年又會把它補食為三人因為他要服務的區域範圍確實很廣那假以時日如果"},{"start":8274.935,"end":8296.251,"text":"外交部有機會他要再拓展到亞利桑那州的時候我們會因應配合這樣的需求再來把僑務秘書做任何的配置來達到服務的目標因為你剛剛說是由洛杉磯先去補這個空缺的能力是 現在都是靠洛杉磯的僑教中心以及洛杉磯的辦事處在支援"},{"start":8298.032,"end":8325.623,"text":"因為我看差不多也一年了我怕說這樣子的空窗期會不會原本減少人力的這個部分因為三個變兩個嘛他的業務會不會是今年的七月底才開始變兩個的所以只有這五個月而已所以不是一年沒有一年沒有一年應該不會到一年嗎不會不會我們會盡快把它補適所以我怕這個他減少的這個人力他可能要負擔會我知道我們洛杉磯的僑胞也會擔心因為好像現在只有兩個可是因為你知道我們現在"},{"start":8326.443,"end":8346.648,"text":"因為我們有一位同仁要回來結婚所以我們就不得不讓他提早離開那我們就盡快的把這個人力補足因為我看這個鳳凰城因為我們明年1月都會把它補食這個台橋社群應該是日益壯大嘛在美國的台橋人數還是有在成長中"},{"start":8350.697,"end":8353.941,"text":"接下來他們的語言適應還有學籍的轉接的問題我們的留學生現在在美國有很好的一些新的發展趨勢是因為我們的很多台灣企業要跨國投資所以他們需要很多好的人才"},{"start":8371.3,"end":8374.482,"text":"那也因為這樣我們現在也拜託我們在當地的一些僑社跟台商能夠協助我們去跨國投資的這個廠商做一個整體性的人才媒合的動作所以這個徵才的動作事實上上個月已經辦過第一次在洛杉磯的"},{"start":8389.691,"end":8411.708,"text":"不治厄安基应该说是在厄湾南加州厄湾那接下来也可能会在东岸也会举办然后这个在德州也会举办我们就因着有不同州的这一些发展趋势我们都会尽可能来协助让留学生或者当地的这个ABC我们讲的所谓第二代第三代"},{"start":8412.969,"end":8416.511,"text":"這個已經是Taiwanese American也有多一點機會進到我們這些新的這個企業系統大家來服務這我們會來媒合好 謝謝委員長謝謝 謝謝陳委員 子維勳 謝謝"},{"start":8426.189,"end":8445.197,"text":"好謝謝陳冠廷委員委員長請回今天已登記質詢委員初步在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本次會議有陳永康委員黃仁委員陳俊宇委員沈伯陽委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":8446.317,"end":8461.689,"text":"委員書面及口頭諮詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者請僑委會於兩週內以書面答覆那如果有約定期限的從期約定所定那今天跟明天12號13號為兩天一次會我們現在休息"}]}},{"id":"165258","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165258","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe34bdaf33381a1315f57c737e12387eef81bffb99621b7826e0853a9f02a015eae5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"10:19:24 - 10:33:35","影片長度":"00:14:11","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:19:24+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:33:35+08:00","duration":851,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.9422187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.429718750000003,"end":19.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.70346875,"end":17.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.80034375,"end":17.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.63971875,"end":22.187843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.16659375,"end":24.398468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.44034375,"end":27.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.773468750000003,"end":28.937843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.95471875,"end":29.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.59596875,"end":49.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.76159375,"end":54.368468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.84096875,"end":60.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.612218750000004,"end":127.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.99409375000002,"end":135.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.63846875000002,"end":147.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.82221875000002,"end":157.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.86284375,"end":158.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.26346875000002,"end":169.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.52346875,"end":175.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.88096875000002,"end":179.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.57659375,"end":184.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.45784375000002,"end":193.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.63784375,"end":199.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.81409375,"end":221.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.66284375,"end":225.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.56534375,"end":227.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.91096875000002,"end":237.68159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.96846875000003,"end":246.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.63784375,"end":256.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.64909375,"end":259.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.80471875,"end":265.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.86284375,"end":267.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.24221875,"end":275.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.57846875,"end":277.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.19846875,"end":283.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.44659375000003,"end":284.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.98221875,"end":291.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.30596875000003,"end":300.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.86159375,"end":303.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.35096875,"end":301.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.78096875,"end":304.43909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.31659375000004,"end":309.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.41284375000004,"end":316.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.61034375,"end":315.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.03221875,"end":316.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.97721875,"end":321.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.15784375000004,"end":323.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.28409375,"end":325.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.12346875000003,"end":329.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.19034375,"end":353.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.33846875,"end":358.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.77659375,"end":362.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.80971875,"end":364.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.63221875000005,"end":366.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.65721875,"end":368.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.71159375,"end":378.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.75721875000005,"end":374.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.82471875000005,"end":374.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.72284375000004,"end":379.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.59596875,"end":383.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.24534375,"end":383.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.49409375000005,"end":406.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.01409375000003,"end":407.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.14471875000004,"end":428.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.50846875,"end":431.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.46159375,"end":436.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.23284375000003,"end":440.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.11846875000003,"end":452.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.50596875,"end":444.29909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.53409375,"end":467.01284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.61846875000003,"end":452.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.63909375000003,"end":457.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.78159375,"end":461.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.90346875,"end":466.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.48534375,"end":486.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.98096875000005,"end":482.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.19534375,"end":494.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.72159375,"end":508.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.06534375,"end":509.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.02721875000003,"end":514.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.0053437500001,"end":515.3090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.20346875,"end":516.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.60409375,"end":523.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.3415937500001,"end":533.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.36096875,"end":534.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.8840937500001,"end":547.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.8315937500001,"end":551.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.6240937499999,"end":572.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.17784375,"end":572.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.9878437500001,"end":591.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.0247187500001,"end":580.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.58409375,"end":593.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.2165937500001,"end":597.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.18221875,"end":600.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.3928437500001,"end":604.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.57784375,"end":609.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.5390937500001,"end":613.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.1628437500001,"end":616.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.5422187500001,"end":618.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.0903437500001,"end":619.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.2040937500001,"end":621.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.09409375,"end":627.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.3884687500001,"end":631.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.8603437500001,"end":644.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.5503437500001,"end":648.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.38534375,"end":651.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.6928437500001,"end":655.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.8103437500001,"end":656.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.14346875,"end":717.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.11534375,"end":675.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.17159375,"end":693.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.3484687499999,"end":695.7365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.61659375,"end":707.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.50596875,"end":713.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.01596875,"end":718.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.85971875,"end":724.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.54659375,"end":728.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.52534375,"end":724.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.3178437500001,"end":731.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":731.6128437500001,"end":734.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.1609687499999,"end":735.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":735.19034375,"end":745.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.2522187500001,"end":755.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.26721875,"end":765.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":765.43034375,"end":766.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":766.81409375,"end":768.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":769.37909375,"end":770.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":771.89346875,"end":780.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":781.14096875,"end":789.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":789.78096875,"end":793.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":793.98284375,"end":821.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":821.7422187500001,"end":827.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":828.12096875,"end":836.0690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":836.27159375,"end":839.0053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":839.24159375,"end":841.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":841.48596875,"end":848.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":841.7053437500001,"end":842.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":844.86096875,"end":845.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.85221875,"end":847.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.7803437500002,"end":849.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":849.07971875,"end":849.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":851.37471875,"end":851.9653437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":0.409,"text":"請王副秘書長委員長"},{"start":32.944,"end":42.458,"text":"非常高興我們今天的召委安排了有關少年事件處理法部分調溫修正草案的一個今天的開始的詢答"},{"start":44.195,"end":59.395,"text":"因為本席也有相對應的案子有提案因此本來就很關心這個案子的進度我想這個案子能夠進入這樣子的尋答階段未來盡快的進入審查"},{"start":60.757,"end":76.446,"text":"我想這也是本席所期待的那這次的整個修法重點剛才大概前面幾位大家都談了就是大概其實第一個就是有調整一些司法用語來配合這個刑事訴訟法跟法院處置法做了一些調整"},{"start":77.56,"end":102.195,"text":"那第二個就是最主要是這個建立這個多元的這些處遇機制之間的轉換轉換的機制這個大概是這次修法的一個重點另外一個剛才也在提的就是有關於這個前案的視為這個未曾受宣告這樣子來保障這個少年的復歸這個大概是第三個重點"},{"start":103.115,"end":120.812,"text":"另外當然也有一些比較小的就是細緻它的一個細緻化的一些救濟程序 少年的救濟程序大概就這幾個重點這部分本席競表支持而且跟本席的提案的意旨大概也都是完全幾乎一致所以這部分我本席會支持但是在這個"},{"start":123.234,"end":141.691,"text":"我今天要跟司法院這邊來溝通的就是在現行 在修法 修法是一回事但是在現行我們所進行的這些有關少年保護管束的這些相關的這個機制裡面我覺得有一些東西是值得跟司法院這邊來討論首先就是我們從113年2月開始試辦"},{"start":147.896,"end":175.326,"text":"就是這個去年二月開始事辦然後去年七月推行到全國的這個有關少年保護管束風險管理事辦計畫這個計畫這樣子從去年的七月開始推行到全國到現在也一年多了這部分我覺得說是不是有一些部分要來跟這個有該討論的地方來跟這個司法院這邊來做溝通首先就是"},{"start":178.15,"end":203.247,"text":"這個我們齁在這個這個不管是少年事件處理法齁還是這個少年級家事法院組織法齁裡面都非常明確的規定有關這個少年調查官跟少年保護官齁他之間不同的職責啦齁那我們在這個這個少年保護管束的風險管理施辦計畫裡面我們也規劃我們的重點是規劃選任專任的少年保護官"},{"start":204.068,"end":226.619,"text":"也就是說把過去由關戶人一個人扮演的角色一個少年保護官一個少年調查官把這兩個角色要把它分清楚一個是負責這個廚藝的執行那一個是負責這個調查所以他這個本來他的角色角色本身的職權就其實就有所"},{"start":227.97,"end":245.218,"text":"焊隔就是說一個人同一個人擔任這兩個角色這個本來他在角色上面的扮演職責上面就有所焊隔我們在這個事辦計畫裡面我們也特別要把它區分開來這個是一個另外就是這個計畫"},{"start":247.697,"end":274.564,"text":"重要的是要做這個個案風險的分級分類評估管理這是這個計畫示範計畫的一個重點那另外就是高風險個案的管理方式要這個由這個法院來成立這個叫做個案管理小組個案管理小組這樣的做法那另外就是高風險的這個個案的聯繫機制讓這個保護官能夠跟行政單位隨時保持聯繫那這個"},{"start":278.523,"end":300.119,"text":"這個部分會造成的大概幾個比較重要的檢討包括我們這個我們審計部在這個中央政府總決算的審核報告裡面也就直接指出我們這個目前的這樣子有關這個保護管束管理的事項計畫裡面它有一個叫做高風險評估指標這個高風險評估指標這個"},{"start":305.39,"end":316.795,"text":"有一個高風險少年的評估表他們認為這個審計報告的結論認為說這個評估指標缺乏 因為風險評估指標它只納入若干常見的風險因子它缺乏經過信度跟效度的統計驗證"},{"start":330.236,"end":357.975,"text":"那也因為這樣子 這個評估表缺乏這樣子的效度 新度統計 統計驗證所以實務上各個法院大概都參考其實他是參考其他的風險評估工具導致這個各個法院他其實在評估的個案風險上面他的評估標準也都不一那這個也會造成整體管理體制缺乏一致性間接造成了處遇 少年處遇的這些差距"},{"start":358.795,"end":379.609,"text":"那也造成這個資源投入的差異 地域的差距這樣子的問題 請問我們有沒有做什麼樣的檢討因為這個113年的決算報告提出這樣的檢討內容 不曉得我們副秘長有掌握嗎有掌握 那我們有什麼樣的因應呢"},{"start":381.046,"end":407.158,"text":"委員這部分我請廳長來回覆好 委員好 謝謝垂選剛剛的問題我們確實已經在10個月以來第一組成這個我們食物的研修小組那都找我們所有食物專家來研究這個性效度那把這個量表做出來以後我們就召開了就是去已經做了嗎 還是正在做做了 都做了"},{"start":408.078,"end":426.681,"text":"最近上個月才有我主持我們來進行這個所謂各個大學專家學者在國外就這樣量表的性效度研究的來做專家效度的校準那麼我們將本土化跟國際學者的意見融合"},{"start":428.202,"end":451.556,"text":"還是要做成一個統一的工具嘛對 而且馬上要進行實測就是每一個小組都要用這個實測 我了解一下實測你說什麼時候要開始實測是在這個今年年底以前要實測完畢實測完畢以後再回來校準一次然後最後再給我們所有的高風險小組去進行"},{"start":452.597,"end":465.512,"text":"很好 所以今年年底會針對這個東西進行實測實測 進行實測那實測之後出來的結果我希望說能夠盡快的把這個成果讓本委員會了解好不好是的 謝謝這部分"},{"start":468.355,"end":491.835,"text":"我們有因應有進度這非常好這是我想了解的因為這個事實上這樣子的這個高風險少年的這個評估評估的這個表評估指標事實上確實是有點有些問題所以這個檢討希望說在年底之前完成實測之後我們能夠看到實測的這個成果好不好這是有關這個計畫的第一個問題"},{"start":494.793,"end":509.238,"text":"第二個問題就是我剛所提到的有關於少年我們這個計畫一個重點把少年保護官跟少年調查官他的職責要把他區分這也是我們計畫的一個重點規劃你們這個計畫內容寫說規劃以選任專責之少年保護官那"},{"start":518.649,"end":532.762,"text":"實務上我們現在的人力我們所了解的現在事實上還是都要由同一個人來擔任同一個個案的少年保護官跟少年調查官都還是有同一個人來擔任現在狀況是不是這樣子"},{"start":535.189,"end":551.986,"text":"報告委員 我們已經實施這樣的分流計畫現在在新北地方法院我們就已經正式實施分流就是少年保護官專做進行我知道他說用一個布幕隔開這邊是保護官那邊是沒有沒有"},{"start":552.546,"end":568.582,"text":"我跟委員報告我們新北地院特別在三重地區的檢疫亭設置專案園區的少年保護中心少年保護執行中心那調查官原則是在那個他們的審判大樓來做這個調查力挺以上"},{"start":573.274,"end":590.746,"text":"這個據我了解目前實務上大部分少年調查官跟少年保護官都還是有同一人在兼任實務上大概都是同一個人兼任但他的職責角色其實是矛盾的他是一方面要執行保護管束那一方面又要中立調查"},{"start":591.667,"end":621.047,"text":"所以他的角色就有矛盾了那這部分很重要的我看你們這個我這手上有這個我們少年調查保護官人力跟執行的業務情形我這邊有110年 111年 112年三個年度的這個這個調查保護官人數的統計跟他的案件看起來我們的少年保護官的這個人數沒有增加反而減少但是我們的案件"},{"start":622.148,"end":631.276,"text":"好 我們的這個每一個人平均執行的案件 未結案件卻增加了卻增加了你看看我上面這個表"},{"start":632.955,"end":653.665,"text":"所以現在我們是不是這個事實上包括這個角色混淆我剛所講的調查官跟保護官的角色混淆以及人力的不足啦其實很主要是人力不足啦那這樣你們是不是有什麼樣的改善計畫有沒有提出評估要需要補強的人力那這個在什麼時候能夠提出這個補強的方案"},{"start":657.665,"end":674.713,"text":"謝謝委員我報告一下那因應這些保護管束的效能本院已經做了三大的一個方向改革了那麼第一個就是我們增加人力的部分委員的資料我這邊有比較新的"},{"start":675.573,"end":695.106,"text":"我們在113年增加16位少年調保官114就今年我們特別增加到54位所以總增加到70位這兩年113 114已經都到各地院去服務了"},{"start":695.626,"end":723.413,"text":"有70位同時呢我們將這個剛剛高風險高風險絕對不可以在遠古的調保官因為他很忙他又要調查又要保護所以我們要選出專來做這種高風險的保護官他叫保護官那他就停止去辦理調查案這是我們第二改革這是要分流嘛對 這個叫部分逐步分流這個是就篩選出來的高風險"},{"start":724.113,"end":742.38,"text":"好 現在時間關係 你是不是能夠把我們這樣子的相關的分工還有人力改善的計畫跟成果交一個書面報告給我們可以 那最後我跟委員補充一下我們委外人力的社工師 心理師 佐理研我們總共用這樣PIN82來密集"},{"start":744.361,"end":769.759,"text":"好 這個整個在書面報告跟我報告因為我最後再一點點時間齁 這個要請問副秘書長 這個我上一次會議也提過啦齁我們有關刑事案件的妥適良刑法齁這個之前有送進立法院來但是因為屆期不連續 現在就沒有再送了那這個 我看這個會議也就沒有了齁這有關刑事案件妥適良刑法那這個那時候我有我在我在這個"},{"start":771.98,"end":792.761,"text":"六月的時候有提 說希望你們半年的時間能夠提出報告 半年還沒到但是在今天的主題我要講的是說就算我們現在刑事案件妥適量刑法這是司法國事會議的共識這部分就算沒有通過 在沒有通過之前事實上有關少年的量刑跟這個"},{"start":794.082,"end":820.617,"text":"一般成年人的量刑他的這個整個考慮的重點機制是完全不同的完全不同的在這個刑事案件的妥適量刑法還沒有這個會席也沒有在看到你們在送來但在他還沒有立法之前我們有關少年少年的量刑我們用少年量刑指引的部分因為畢竟少年量刑他的參考不是他考量的不是責任能力而是這個"},{"start":821.978,"end":847.463,"text":"為了保障這個少年的健全自我發展才是他的重點是不是能夠這個請我們司法院在兩個月內提出以少年健全自我成長核心之少年良心指引的具體規劃你們有具體規劃我希望你們能夠送來有關少年少年良心指引那個謝謝委員這個部分司法院已經有在進行那我們可以兩個月之內那個提出這個報告沒有問題好謝謝好"}]}},{"id":"165257","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165257","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3b86ae9ecf89787cd906ee7c1e9a76e5a1bffb99621b7826eb606aef97113c26b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"10:19:42 - 10:30:49","影片長度":"00:11:07","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:19:42+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:30:49+08:00","duration":667,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.08159375,"end":0.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.57096875,"end":5.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.290343750000002,"end":22.508468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.74846875,"end":26.136593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.71034375,"end":29.039093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.410343750000003,"end":32.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.56596875,"end":48.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.95784375,"end":36.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.39534375,"end":44.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.53034375,"end":44.783468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.765968750000006,"end":49.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.744718750000004,"end":53.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.30096875,"end":56.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.66346875,"end":56.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.93346875,"end":58.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.85721875,"end":59.19471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.430968750000005,"end":65.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.08471875,"end":61.439093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.40471875,"end":67.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.96971875,"end":69.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.02846875,"end":81.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.82409375,"end":97.55159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.62471875,"end":89.13096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.64034375,"end":98.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.90159375,"end":100.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.63534375,"end":104.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.94284375000001,"end":112.26659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.46909375000001,"end":114.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.49409375,"end":116.75534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.75534375000001,"end":124.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.36221875000001,"end":136.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.21784375000001,"end":127.63971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.63409375,"end":141.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.81471875,"end":145.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.15159375000002,"end":149.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.76721875,"end":156.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.68159375000002,"end":158.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.29721875,"end":161.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.49096875,"end":161.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.50784375,"end":161.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.96346875,"end":162.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.03096875,"end":168.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.15284375000002,"end":165.99659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.83596875,"end":168.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.15659375,"end":168.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.17346875,"end":168.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.35909375,"end":168.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.37596875,"end":168.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.39284375,"end":168.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.49409375000002,"end":168.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.96659375000002,"end":178.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.52221875,"end":181.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.55534375000002,"end":181.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.57221875000002,"end":185.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.03159375,"end":191.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.08534375000002,"end":207.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.33846875,"end":192.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.80221875,"end":195.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.76221875000002,"end":207.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.93096875,"end":212.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.23409375,"end":217.78596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.88721875000002,"end":231.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.13846875000002,"end":243.92534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.43159375000002,"end":262.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.43721875,"end":263.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.53409375,"end":270.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.87909375000004,"end":271.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.94221875,"end":271.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.41471875,"end":286.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.56409375000004,"end":301.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.30034375,"end":307.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.51034375,"end":315.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.31909375000004,"end":318.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.23846875000004,"end":326.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.28471875,"end":320.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.03909375,"end":338.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.07096875,"end":344.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.55096875000004,"end":346.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.42409375,"end":349.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.08596875,"end":352.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.66784375000003,"end":354.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.62534375,"end":362.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.26534375,"end":365.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.37471875,"end":365.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.62784375,"end":369.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.67784375,"end":378.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.88346875,"end":389.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.45096875,"end":395.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.68659375000004,"end":395.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.39534375000005,"end":398.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.54659375,"end":404.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.46596875,"end":403.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.92971875,"end":405.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.21659375,"end":405.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.62159375000005,"end":406.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.58346875,"end":410.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.81909375000004,"end":410.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.97096875000005,"end":413.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.77221875000004,"end":429.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.37346875000003,"end":431.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.55846875000003,"end":446.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.64471875000004,"end":461.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.29346875000005,"end":453.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.51284375,"end":453.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.22471875,"end":462.89534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.26659375,"end":463.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.92471875,"end":465.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.18596875000003,"end":474.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.89346875,"end":478.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.31909375000004,"end":485.67659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.33471875000004,"end":504.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.35721875,"end":512.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.96346875,"end":518.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.8022187500001,"end":527.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.78846875,"end":534.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.37346875,"end":535.4072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.4072187500001,"end":535.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.9640937500001,"end":536.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.16659375,"end":536.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.8078437500001,"end":539.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.8247187500001,"end":538.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.15346875,"end":566.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.9297187500001,"end":578.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.82659375,"end":578.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.84346875,"end":591.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.86784375,"end":585.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.02721875,"end":591.2803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.2803437499999,"end":591.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.8372187500001,"end":591.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.88784375,"end":596.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.1359687500001,"end":598.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.35096875,"end":599.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.05971875,"end":599.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.2790937500001,"end":599.2959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.2959687499999,"end":600.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.9665937500001,"end":602.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.7890937500001,"end":602.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.8059687500001,"end":612.3572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.6272187500001,"end":616.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.2553437500001,"end":621.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.7734687500001,"end":635.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.5984687499999,"end":641.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.0447187500001,"end":658.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.0615937499999,"end":641.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.0715937500001,"end":664.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.4765937500001,"end":658.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.1884687500001,"end":667.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.25596875,"end":667.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.1672187500001,"end":667.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.65659375,"end":668.5847187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.63,"end":5.134,"text":"那等一會在零四名委員 執行完結束之後我們休息五分鐘主席 在場的委員先進列席了政府經貿事務官員會長 工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請今晚會彭主委請彭主委"},{"start":25.782,"end":53.558,"text":"委員長主委好現在AI很夯那麼我們在談到說使用金融機構你這邊寫AI科技主柵對不對是我們今晚會提出來一個專題報告那麼要建構金融大語言模型AI科技主柵但是有沒有看到有一個報導就是屬於G20當中有一個FSB就是金融穩定委員會他提到了如果金融機構使用相同的人工智慧的AI模型和特定的硬體"},{"start":54.338,"end":80.405,"text":"可能會引發羊群效應主委大家知道什麼是羊群效應嗎知道就是後面的跟著前面走前面的跟著前面的走就是比較不理性的群體行為是的那對於這樣的一個風險今晚會有開始去做一些因應之道嗎其實這個問題一直出現在比如說我們很多科技集中在所謂的幾個比如說Big Five Big Seven這些東西的時候像我們的雲端還有很多的這些科技集中在這裡都有這個"},{"start":81.834,"end":82.735,"text":"我確定主委已經了解這個原因可能了那怎麼樣因應"},{"start":101.67,"end":126.719,"text":"我想這件事情就剛才陳總委員提到了就是我們每個階段不一樣那我們就會請他們自己其實坦白講我們在這麼多年來希望建立一個金融機構自我的風險管理的管控機制所以建議他們不要用同樣的AI模型嗎也不是 他很多時候沒有選擇但是他必須在沒有選擇裡面做出最大的選擇做出區隔對 做出最大的選擇這就是我要的就像為什麼一艘船要防水隔艙 要區隔"},{"start":128.3,"end":151.609,"text":"所以金管會未來可不可以針對這個部分在AI的趨勢下先預擬怎麼樣讓各機關如果沒有辦法沒有選擇模型的這個餘地那怎麼樣做出區隔避免大家同一個時間都犯同樣的錯誤可以嗎這也是我們在因為我們的AI 2.0到今年結束我們明年會推出這個下一階段的這個就是我們很重點的好 下一個階段的重點工作好 可以了那我們現在看另外問題"},{"start":152.489,"end":181.267,"text":"今天台灣的報告最近讓人家很注目他提到安養信託跟以防養老的貸款成效差主委知道這樣的一個報告內容嗎我有看到你有看到那您覺得問題出在哪裡呢其實我先不談安養信託我們先談以防養老問題出在哪裡我覺得是民眾的觀念我覺得在當初我們推出這個想法的時候很多其實這個不是有很精準的這些理論來是不是會他的報告說集中在六都而且幾戶偏低是不是這樣子"},{"start":181.747,"end":207.469,"text":"當然就是這個東西它的誘因夠不夠民眾覺得這個成本的問題我簡單分析一下您聽聽看一般來講需要養老的人如果他是高資產族群他根本不需要那麼他的資產不是那麼多他才需要以防養老但是一旦他是屬於這種弱勢族群他就是老年收入不足而且這樣的人有的住在都市有的住在鄉村如果住在都市的人他所持有的物件的價值比較低所以槍的幾乎金額會偏低"},{"start":208.069,"end":229.316,"text":"第二 它如果是都在鄉村 它的資產 農舍不具有流通性所以它根本沒有辦法辦以防養老這就是為什麼以防養老集中在六都而且幾乎偏離的原因 是不是這樣當然 比如說以防養老背後的價值還是在於那個抵押的對象的價值跟流動性當然我們大家都知道我們所有房地產裡面最具有流動性還是在都會區裡面的房子"},{"start":231.016,"end":256.39,"text":"所以說我們現在的關心到老後生活突然推出了以防養老但是由於資產價值跟他資產存的流動性的差異造成了城鄉差距也忽略了我們資產所有人他本身的他的強勢跟弱勢好 那我現在跟您請教一個問題最近鬧出了一個大家懸然大波的補充保費請問衛吾吾之前有徵詢過包括我們金管會的相關的意見嗎"},{"start":257.21,"end":278.232,"text":"就是透過資本利得去取得二代健保的補充保費有沒有跟你們討論過我想石部長自己也說了他在提出這個對媒體說這之前他並沒有跟我們討論過所以事實是如此那您對這個意見的看法呢因為我們知道一代健保是以薪資所得為主到了二代健保把資本利得也加進來"},{"start":279.053,"end":300.223,"text":"但是如果說我們資本利得是投資證券的話它會有賺有賠那麼投資失利補充保惠也沒有賠投資所得叫補充保惠這是目前很多存股族他們的不滿主委認為這樣的一個補充保惠設定在所得尤其是資本利得會不會是一個健全的財務來源"},{"start":301.363,"end":315.373,"text":"就是102年我們提出補充保費的概念的時候把這個股利收入納入確實剛才陳主委員講的我們的股利收入的本質跟我們的比如說利息所得還是有點差異就陳主委員講的就是說很有可能我們的是"},{"start":316.414,"end":342.074,"text":"鼓勵有所得但是你的這個買賣的可能資本可能不是利得會產生這樣一個問題好那這樣我們來看一下最近中經院的李岩院長提到他說補充保費應該以資產價值而非資本利得來計算你對於以資產價值來衡量站在金管業的立場你覺得呢這是不是一個比較可行的方向譬如說韓國的經驗他把資產納為保費課徵的範圍"},{"start":346.517,"end":369.082,"text":"那让保费更能够反映实质的支付能力因为我们知道我们的健保是怎样量能收费对不对你的能力越强不是论病计费我生越多病你跟我说多少钱这是过去没有健保的情况但是我不管生多重的病你跟我说的保费是根据我的能力那么所得是一个能力请问资产是不是一个支付能力"},{"start":370.102,"end":398.419,"text":"那當然你的資產也反映你實質的這個所謂的存量的概念我薪資是我的流量的概念嘛所以如果說未來健保的財務健全考慮以資產的價值來作為一個對象您覺得金管會的立場您會考慮跟衛福部來探討這個問題嗎資產的部分呢可能不是在我這邊所能夠管理資產不是您管理但是您有工具可以去得知"},{"start":400.042,"end":426.138,"text":"財政部跟內政部對不對那這三個部會都會共同來面對那您個人的見解呢不過我覺得就是比如說連院長他提出很多的想法啦但是前陣子我也看到有其他不同的各自提出他專業的解決就是這個我們社會多元很重要的一個大家遇到這個問題以後大家各自提出自己解決方法像上次我也聽到以前的楊所長他提到這個商保不會健保也是一個做法我想"},{"start":427.578,"end":446.304,"text":"過去彭教授的時候是很勇於提出各項解決方案的所以是我覺得這部分因為這是國家的問題那如果大家對這個比如說以鼓勵這樣的方式沒有共識我們但是面臨的問題還存在大家要想辦法來解決我想我們金管會如果說有什麼好方法我也會樂意提供"},{"start":446.704,"end":464.934,"text":"那在這裡呢可能在未來如果有機會諮詢財政部內政部跟金管會的時候我要說明一點往上跳一頁其實啊其實我們談到所得跟資產作為健保費來客取的一個標的的時候要思考所得是為身所需那麼論能來收費"},{"start":466.226,"end":485.395,"text":"以我們來講不管是資本利得或薪資所得資本利得現在已經成為很多人被動收入成為他維持生活收入的來源所以如果對你維持生活的收入來源予以來客取這個就不能完全反映你的支付能力可是相對的以資產的價值也會有一點差異譬如說在鄉下"},{"start":492.302,"end":508.354,"text":"他先生走了之後他繼承了農舍 繼承了農地看起來資產價格很高甚至被排除在社會救助法之外不能列為中低收入的資格但是他根本沒有其他的收入那這個時候我還針對他的資產要來跟他收取保費的話"},{"start":509.114,"end":534.342,"text":"恐怕會影響他的生活你同意這樣的一個考慮嗎我想說一刀切的做法一定要考慮到各種不同的狀況比如資產有些人資產是等於說他很餘裕的資產有些人那個資產的品質不一樣那當然就是我們如果說要朝這個方向要更要衡量這個資產本身是不是能夠反映你的支付能力所以你對於如果未來以資產價值來計算補充保費這個方向你覺得可以研議嗎"},{"start":535.542,"end":562.081,"text":"我覺得任何方法都可以研議這也是一個方法之一那也要注意到說只有持有高價的房產自用無法創造收入以至於生活間困擇這種人就要排除在外我想這是個提醒我擔心說未來跟你們討論的時候我們沒有幫助他把釐清所謂的論量能收費這個能不管是你的收入能力還是你的資產能力要反映到你的支付能力"},{"start":562.801,"end":577.706,"text":"這三者之間是有差別的那最後一個題目來 最後一個請教你來 我們現在永續金融的評鑑報告出來了說我們的透明度有提升但是是所有的業別資訊透明度都是最低的你怎麼看待這樣的一個公司治理的現況"},{"start":578.866,"end":602.047,"text":"我想資訊揭露絕對沒有止境因為大家對這個東西透明度的要求會越來越高那我們只能說我們覺得可以揭露而不會產生副作用我們盡量讓它透明那你覺得目前所有的大概機構在我們永續金融評驗當中這個分數都特別低全班的同學就跟我一樣英文都是不及格都英文不及格請問英文老師在怎麼辦"},{"start":602.847,"end":623.244,"text":"沒有這也是我們剛好凸顯了我們努力的方向評鑑的目的並不是想讓大家都覺得說我都100分重點是我們透過評鑑了解誰做得好誰做不好大家還有什麼努力的方向我想是很重要的好那我這裡面就寫了有哪些單位他覺得沒有按你們的標準他做的可以"},{"start":623.7,"end":639.688,"text":"有進步的空間所以您是否支持未來資訊透明的提升的評分權重加重或納入特別扣分制的加重扣分項以保障投資人及消費者的權益我想這個我們會請那個他們的指標研議小組他會定期會把各種狀況納入"},{"start":641.59,"end":663.311,"text":"我覺得整個社會大眾很重視資訊的透明度很重視資訊的揭露程度當然我們也了解有些公司治理上它基於公司機密它不能揭露的但是哪些該揭露哪些是屬於公司的機密儘管會一定要做出一個明確的指引好不好是 我們會跟那個交易所這邊針對這一塊每一個案例都是一個很好我們來檢討制度的機會啦謝謝主委 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165256","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165256","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe388b9b07d767c16b88abc180ec3481d021bffb99621b7826e536dac32b4bbbdb75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"10:17:19 - 10:29:52","影片長度":"00:12:33","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:17:19+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:29:52+08:00","duration":753,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.95846875,"end":7.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.114093750000002,"end":8.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.88971875,"end":13.379093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.615343750000001,"end":69.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.42096875,"end":69.52221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.52221875000001,"end":71.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.34034375,"end":73.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.21784375,"end":74.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.24284375,"end":89.50221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.90721875,"end":124.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.29846875000001,"end":143.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.74721875,"end":144.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.98721875,"end":146.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.81409375,"end":149.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.72534375,"end":148.63221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.02034375000002,"end":149.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.62784375,"end":153.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.24346875,"end":165.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.87159375000002,"end":156.61409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.04721875,"end":167.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.21596875,"end":169.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.86534375000002,"end":172.22346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.81846875000002,"end":176.94846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.48909375000002,"end":173.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.35784375,"end":181.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.10846875000001,"end":181.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.14596875,"end":185.72346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.33971875,"end":184.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.04409375,"end":207.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.22471875000002,"end":191.68034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.43721875,"end":209.31471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.42409375000003,"end":223.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.13221875000002,"end":216.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.67096875000001,"end":260.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.00346875,"end":258.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.95221875000004,"end":261.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.98596875000004,"end":261.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.79596875000004,"end":264.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.76596875,"end":265.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.99784375,"end":266.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.60534375000003,"end":298.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.74784375,"end":307.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.88159375000004,"end":315.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.44159375000004,"end":315.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.91409375,"end":330.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.05096875000004,"end":336.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.76721875000004,"end":342.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.29846875000004,"end":348.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.71159375,"end":342.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.90471875000003,"end":360.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.06846875,"end":354.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.36284375,"end":361.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.51034375,"end":363.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.59846875000005,"end":365.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.40846875,"end":366.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.06659375000004,"end":379.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.02409375,"end":368.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.31909375000004,"end":372.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.99346875000003,"end":375.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.20784375000005,"end":382.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.52409375,"end":386.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.42221875,"end":390.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.53159375,"end":387.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.78034375000004,"end":399.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.07534375,"end":391.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.49284375,"end":394.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.71971875,"end":400.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.13721875000005,"end":404.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.88784375,"end":403.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.57534375,"end":405.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.65971875,"end":404.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.92534375,"end":406.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.95471875000004,"end":410.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.10596875000005,"end":416.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.11784375,"end":423.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.85471875,"end":426.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.18784375,"end":428.26784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.38971875000004,"end":433.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.41471875,"end":443.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.72971875,"end":450.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.07909375,"end":453.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.93909375000004,"end":456.07784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.38596875,"end":463.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.89159375,"end":459.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.45659375,"end":467.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.48971875,"end":467.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.41784375000003,"end":469.99971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.99971875000006,"end":473.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.73346875000004,"end":474.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.94846875,"end":478.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.66096875000005,"end":481.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.35284375000003,"end":480.19221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.88409375000003,"end":484.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.32659375000003,"end":484.41096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.42784375,"end":488.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.62971875000005,"end":492.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.11846875000003,"end":493.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.15221875000003,"end":493.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.74284375,"end":495.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.12221875000006,"end":496.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.40909375,"end":497.94471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.42596875000004,"end":496.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.24846875000003,"end":500.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.80096875000004,"end":518.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.5828437499999,"end":520.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.8190937500001,"end":520.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.45596875,"end":520.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.2322187500001,"end":530.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.0365937500001,"end":532.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.27284375,"end":535.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.1540937500001,"end":565.1240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.89659375,"end":563.2509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.6472187500001,"end":576.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.3428437499999,"end":569.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.1609687499999,"end":572.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.5990937500001,"end":578.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.3372187500001,"end":580.3115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.8178437500001,"end":595.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.84096875,"end":603.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.2834687500001,"end":598.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.0803437500001,"end":602.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.1940937500001,"end":609.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.64034375,"end":624.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.41909375,"end":624.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.77721875,"end":624.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.79409375,"end":624.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.81096875,"end":625.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.06409375,"end":625.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.19909375,"end":625.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.9753437500001,"end":629.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.0847187500001,"end":633.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.8859687500001,"end":631.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.8897187499999,"end":638.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.3659687500001,"end":639.6609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.2222187500001,"end":640.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.7240937500001,"end":642.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.93909375,"end":652.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.1528437500001,"end":671.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.73846875,"end":657.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.97034375,"end":660.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.7409687500001,"end":673.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.6515937500001,"end":677.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.6297187499999,"end":682.8272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.88659375,"end":682.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.45596875,"end":682.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.5403437500001,"end":687.7547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.63659375,"end":687.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.9909687500001,"end":688.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.0247187500001,"end":690.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.51409375,"end":691.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.6572187500001,"end":697.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.91784375,"end":702.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.17909375,"end":704.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":703.7859687499999,"end":716.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.4015937500001,"end":706.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.8015937499999,"end":712.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.8640937499999,"end":721.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.6059687500001,"end":726.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.94721875,"end":727.8328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.4953437500001,"end":730.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.6172187500001,"end":732.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.1653437500001,"end":737.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":736.1015937500001,"end":740.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.8984687500001,"end":741.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":742.05846875,"end":744.5053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.2522187500001,"end":744.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.7078437499999,"end":748.6397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.10409375,"end":751.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.63534375,"end":749.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.47471875,"end":752.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.04409375,"end":753.58409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.577,"end":6.618,"text":"那個謝謝趙偉有請次長請次長委員好"},{"start":14.029,"end":39.753,"text":"次長早安本來我今天這個質詢是針對我們部長的不知道後來是換成次長您但我想部長要做好也都需要次長們把所有的工作都做好所以我還是針對原本要問部長的事情來問您今天我的主題就是談到因為部長上任的時候有談到平等這個部分"},{"start":40.273,"end":58,"text":"那他也在今年九月的時候我們立法院女子運動外交促進會簽署布萊頓吉赫爾星際女性與運動宣言的時候那部長在那邊見證他當天有講未來運動部將培育更多的女性人才積極接軌國際"},{"start":59.961,"end":71.033,"text":"那我後來查了一下發現其實這個布萊頓宣言過去體育署的時候就簽過了那個次長您知道嗎是那過去是什麼時候簽的您知道哪一年嗎應該2014的"},{"start":76.703,"end":100.734,"text":"2014那還更早因為我辦公室查到的是2020但是我發現簽了之後好像效益不高你們有照著做嗎就是你看一下就是女性選手這個我之前資訊的時候就有講到我們奧運獎牌女性選手奪牌的比例是58%可是我們的教練只有13%"},{"start":102.575,"end":123.271,"text":"中華奧會決策高層女性的比例只有8%欸可見就是說我們女性是在很不對等的沒有參與決策資源比較少女教練比例這麼低然後有驚人的成果欸那個署長所以你覺得你們有做到簽署的布萊頓宣言嗎"},{"start":124.332,"end":144.811,"text":"保委員在女性教練比例方面牽涉到選拔這部分我們的確過去佐利的比較低在中華奧會的部分我們其實有新聞過去也請他們協助那他們今年在選任委員方面新出爐的選任委員方面男女的比例是接近1比1的啦在選任的部分選任我講的是最高決策耶"},{"start":145.071,"end":165.052,"text":"对就是因为你们都一直说什么单向委员会啊我是说李建世嘛因为一个组织譬如说我们台湾就要国会嘛李建世就是所谓的奥会委员这件事情那奥会委员的有分当然委员是由奥亚运的协会派出当然委员其他有大概70位是选任就是说他们去"},{"start":166.193,"end":181.685,"text":"我們要看最後的結果不管它怎麼產生選任的部分它已經達到1比1的男女比例階級1比1但是最後的結果嘛因為如果派的都是男的選的不就應該出來是女的嗎然後第二個是在協會的委員會的部分我有要求所有協會委員會一定要三分之一以上"},{"start":182.245,"end":207.123,"text":"据说我们不要玩文字游戏哦政府的中华民国政府的委员会三分之一性别比这个性别主流化已经做了很久嘛那你也知道那些委员会很多都是政府各部门派任嘛所以你就要去调节派任如果都是男的那你这个外面找的专家学者就要是女的才能做到三分之一啊所以这个也是用中华奥会的决策吧包委员"},{"start":211.881,"end":230.495,"text":"如果没有这样子的话我们签再多的协议都没有用了我要讲的是那我今天要讲的是你是不是可以给我们单项协会性别统计年报如果都没有看到你的统计我们怎么知道做得怎么样那这里面应该要有几个内容"},{"start":231.215,"end":260.365,"text":"薪资待遇这也是各国在讲运动有没有性别平等的重要指标然后参赛年龄跟职涯的长度代表对性别比例培训跟升迁的机会后勤资源分配你要先有统计我们才能看到运动平权怎么样结构性的改变那这个部分应该可以做到吧就是先给我们运动性别统计年报好不好"},{"start":260.985,"end":282.052,"text":"那從今年是2025年 明年就可以開始吧好可以齁 那個次長承諾 這裡我們會監督另外一個 次長你應該知道就是運動牌掛牌當天就有兩個女足公會跟台灣運動好事協會就發表聯合聲明"},{"start":284.514,"end":298.556,"text":"說因為各單項協會常常不聽你們的雖然你們這個鼓勵措施我從上一屆當立委就開始用預算案然後你們就說慢慢再鼓勵對不對然後你今天的報告第六頁鼓勵了半天"},{"start":299.807,"end":302.611,"text":"8個協會有18.18%達到單一性別17個協會另外一個監事會你還分開來算理事跟監事還分開算38.64%"},{"start":316.028,"end":335.763,"text":"我們鼓勵了半天鼓勵了四年的話如果理事比較重要看理事的話才八個協會佔18.18%做到這個三分之一性別比例那我們要做到真正全部的時候要幾年四年達到18%百分之百的時候要幾年"},{"start":337.833,"end":363.315,"text":"法務委員 在國體法的部分目前我們已經在研議在李建勢的性別比戰區不是 那個次長我們數學算一下嘛你們說努力了11年到115年這樣子努力了4年有8個協會做到李氏會占18.18%有做到三分之一性別比那這樣依這個速度推算百分之百都做到的時候要幾年所以要修法不是嘛 不修法要幾年 你說"},{"start":364.656,"end":378.563,"text":"沒有辦法沒有辦法算不過包括委員我倒是有因為您的質詢我有做到一點就是我要求所有的委員會都要單一性別超過三分之一而委員會才是真正形成決策的重要的一個組織"},{"start":380.37,"end":403.939,"text":"各單項協會的委員會才是重點你們每次都跟我說委員會你協會都沒有你還要下面的委員會就是協會底下的委員會包括它的選拔也是選訓委員會成立出來的這個我們也不要再玩文字遊戲了兩邊都要啦是當然都要我們說立法院的國會性別沒有三分之一然後我們組成什麼委員會有這不合理嗎那我們一起來修法嘛這個部分那當然我們的版本都提出來了啦你的版本什麼時候出來市長"},{"start":405.95,"end":422.339,"text":"已經有草案了草案什麼時候送到行政院什麼時候公告什麼時候到立法院我們現在就是希望我們接下來配合國際法廣納各位委員的意見之後我們一起來做修法我的已經提出來很多年了那那個那您什麼時候送公告我們先問先講公告吧現在先先"},{"start":431.788,"end":453.037,"text":"現在是體育部這麼好的理想保護員我想目前就是我會督促他們就回去跟部長報告在國際法的修法我們希望能夠在這半年內你不用再跟部長報告了部長來上任前跟我見面的時候他主動說要做這件事是所以我說這部分我們希望在半年之內能夠把它完成這個修法好不好"},{"start":453.277,"end":472.291,"text":"還要半年你說半年我們立法院完成還是公告我們當然是講完成這個會期我們希望努力把它下個會期把它完成掉下個會期完成掉那你兩個月之內就要公告了要不然來不及耶下個會期是到明年的六月底嘛明年六月底前要完成修法"},{"start":472.751,"end":497.551,"text":"我們希望往這個目標前進那你公告到行政院送出來都要時間您知道嗎沒有錯沒有錯我們做過運動部組織法我們知道那個程序什麼時候行政院應該送出來到立法院我們希望應該我現在拚三月的時候吧三月那你什麼時候應該公告你就知道了吧這個我們會努力那你兩個月內可以公告嗎如果你們都準備好的話"},{"start":498.291,"end":519.725,"text":"那個市長說ok那我們會兩個月內公告那個團那個國體法你們的版本後裡面一定會有禮監事性別比喔好那我還有一點時間喔再講一下你看足協理事一位女性都沒有欸那個署長你知道我們女足效果就是成績很好吧對這樣合理嗎不合理"},{"start":521.306,"end":543.518,"text":"那你知不知道當他們足協會員提出修正章程的時候要有性別比例的時候會員代表大會怎麼樣被嗆嗎您有聽說嗎那是在2023年年初的時候那時候我還沒有接所以我不曉得你不曉得那我告訴你被嗆說有本事選上全部給你們當也沒關係嘲笑人家沒本事選上"},{"start":545.138,"end":563.268,"text":"所以我想這個部分就是國體法的修法很重要不能讓人家要在自己的相關協會的章程要修的話還這樣子被嗆你剛剛已經提到就是兩個月內會提出你們的草案公告"},{"start":566.089,"end":580.155,"text":"那最後一點時間那個次長師大女主案當時你答應我的事情是就是五個聲明體育署聲明你們現在進度如何了報告委員我們在今天下午"},{"start":580.868,"end":602.974,"text":"今天下午会有一个跨部会的会议把最后的因为我们第二次会议我们之前已经有咨询会议那在卫福部跟教育部都有参与的情况之下还有很多的法规委员会那么原则第一个基于信赖保护我们一个一个讲好了你当时的声明答应我的第一个成立专案小组全面清查运科计划这个进度如何了"},{"start":603.254,"end":620.931,"text":"保護委員這部分我們一開始有做但是在會議上法規委員提出一個蠻重要的一個見解就是說基於信賴保護原則我們不應該在這個時候去責難這些老師他當時沒有申請IRB除非他把它拿去做發表那就是基本上就是嚴重違反"},{"start":621.531,"end":623.834,"text":"不應該責難他們沒有做IRB這我有點聽不懂這是什麼意思是誰信賴誰保護誰你們答應讓他們不要做IRB喔"},{"start":634.142,"end":659.906,"text":"不是 因為當時沒有要求那現在反過來去責怪說IRB不是國家的法令嗎大學教授還要輔導我們有跟衛福部跟教育部都有做一個討論有徵得他們的一個同意那這部分是不是容許我們今天下午看完會之後呢我們到委員辦公室這邊來做說明我要講的是次長你不要因為媒體現在不關注就輕放違反國家法令的人當然我們希望這個責任不是在"},{"start":660.266,"end":676.569,"text":"同意他們不用做那你們過去這個體育署現在這個運動部你們人很多都沒換就要負起責任啊包委員這部分我聽我說當時講的就是監察院這邊有在也在做處理對監察院當然啦那我們立法院你們答應我們的事情"},{"start":677.31,"end":704.257,"text":"因為這個部分可能需要很長的時間做解釋啦我是不是讓我們會後來委員辦公室做解釋那當時你答應要給我的完整的都做完的報告時間快到了吧是那其實我們今天下午的會議其實我們諮詢委員會也有邀請委員辦公室的助理來嘛那因為當時因為有事情沒有到我們辦公室又不參與決策沒有錯但是我們還是希望讓委員辦公室能夠知道我們到底在進行什麼事情嘛"},{"start":704.457,"end":715.945,"text":"白紙黑字文字給我們啦我們辦公室又不是現場的你知道chat GPT可以隨時供你們諮詢對不對沒有問題好那什麼時候有完整的報告可以給我們辦公室"},{"start":716.872,"end":744.081,"text":"我們今天下午開完會理論上應該下個星期應該會議紀錄就會出來我們就會全部的嗎 五樣的嗎不要又說只有一樣喔報偉我們還有一個流程還有其他流程要做我說這五樣嘛署長 次長我們大概是前三樣除了第四樣我們還需要時間之外一二三四五目前都在需要時間你可以跟我們講你規劃的時間是什麼時候嘛好不好那要完整的這個報告什麼時候"},{"start":745.021,"end":753.47,"text":"应该下星期应该可以有一个初步的报告出来那我们会继续追哦是好OK好 谢谢委员好 谢谢"}]}},{"id":"165268","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165268","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe326c1d45b605dd7498abc180ec3481d02a983a902744326173eb26cf665c94cb75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"10:42:07 - 10:54:07","影片長度":"00:12:00","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:42:07+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:54:07+08:00","duration":720,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.93659375,"end":12.450968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.83909375,"end":12.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.88971875,"end":13.665968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.72034375,"end":17.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.53034375,"end":17.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.96471875,"end":21.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.407218750000002,"end":25.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.782218750000002,"end":27.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.92534375,"end":30.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.18221875,"end":42.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.16346875,"end":65.72534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.90659375,"end":114.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.19034375000001,"end":117.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.20659375000001,"end":118.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.37534375000001,"end":122.61096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.18471875,"end":138.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.21846875000001,"end":124.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.57971875,"end":133.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.04721875,"end":160.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.25346875,"end":142.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.09471875,"end":167.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.45721875,"end":162.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.09346875,"end":182.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.74659375000002,"end":173.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.68659375000001,"end":179.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.72846875000002,"end":181.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.23034375,"end":193.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.48596875,"end":201.29909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.77159375000002,"end":227.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.02909375000002,"end":234.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.96471875,"end":245.68034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.68034375000002,"end":245.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.00096875000003,"end":253.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.27034375000002,"end":250.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.25284375,"end":256.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.63221875,"end":257.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.95284375,"end":271.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.29846875000004,"end":259.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.43159375,"end":272.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.30909375000005,"end":275.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.34659375,"end":276.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.94971875000005,"end":331.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.35034375000004,"end":341.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.03659375,"end":352.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.92096875000004,"end":369.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.15034375000005,"end":385.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.50659375000004,"end":386.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.63721875000005,"end":405.90846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.21221875000003,"end":415.22346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.84784375000004,"end":427.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.76659375,"end":422.78346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.91346875000005,"end":477.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.89096875,"end":464.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.23221875,"end":467.43471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.22659375,"end":479.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.20096875,"end":479.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.61846875000003,"end":479.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.82096875,"end":506.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.88846875,"end":530.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.44596875,"end":545.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.3928437500001,"end":559.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.6059687500001,"end":571.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.49971875,"end":564.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.1103437500001,"end":597.9797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.9622187500001,"end":575.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.91221875,"end":601.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.02971875,"end":635.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.50971875,"end":665.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.73284375,"end":686.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.09659375,"end":705.4397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.8953437499999,"end":711.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":711.41346875,"end":715.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.80096875,"end":716.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.6953437500001,"end":719.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.20159375,"end":717.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.0365937500001,"end":720.96471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.18,"end":13.263,"text":"謝主席 也有請鄭市長市長請委員好如果要讓運動進入人民的日常那我們就要先認識什麼是台灣人的日常"},{"start":25.851,"end":42.447,"text":"那台灣的日常我想就是日常性的加班過勞根據勞動部最新的國際勞動統計2024年台灣的平均年工時高達2030個小時位居世界第五高"},{"start":43.268,"end":65.488,"text":"那在亞洲是僅次於新加坡排名第二那如果我們跟同年工時最低的德國來相比是差了736個小時以一天工作工時正常8個小時那一個禮拜五天來計算我們台灣比起德國人我們多少人四個八位以上啊"},{"start":67.629,"end":95.428,"text":"那市長我想全民運動的觀念是要深植人心那不是喊喊口號宣傳就可以啦那所以我們要創造這個環境那我想人我們往往是外在物質條件來決定一些東西所以好數據已經顯示這個全民日常就是高工時那勞動了一整天不是倒頭就睡就是躺在沙發上追劇我看這樣就差不多了"},{"start":96.208,"end":122.463,"text":"所以怎麼樣才能來鼓勵全民運動那我覺得要創造這個所謂的友善條件那不曉得首先要問次長那你可不可以跟勞動部來跨部會合作怎麼樣友善運動條件這一塊就是要讓這個我們台灣人的日常不是只綁在工作而已"},{"start":123.223,"end":141.878,"text":"鲍委员我想过去我们的观念就是浙江天高百姓都在运动但是呢现在我们就是因为这样子的一个文化我们缺乏全民运动的文化我们才要成立全民运动署那我们在从当然基于我们在从体育署时代开始推动运动企业认证目前已经有认证987家的企业"},{"start":142.438,"end":166.796,"text":"那只供122万人的一个参与也聘用了726的运动指导员我们想在接下来全运动署的经费更充裕的情况之下就是要大力推动全运动这件事情让我们国人规律运动这件事情变成我们的文化那这部分我们当然会跟劳动部的黄部长这边来做一个探议将会鼓励企业奖励企业让企业去鼓励他的员工就是投入运动"},{"start":167.116,"end":181.758,"text":"沒錯 包委員其實我們大家過去像包括我本身以前當然署長會覺得他每天累得要死回去想睡覺最近我也呼籲里昂部長就經常的規律運動所以我最近也瘦下來精神也比較好所以這部分就是我們的文化真的需要去做改善"},{"start":182.279,"end":201.029,"text":"好那創造友善運動環境喔我們看到我們那個體育署有做一個報告喔就是說我們目前民眾常運動的場地看起來就是學校的運動場地公園還有人行道比例相對高"},{"start":201.869,"end":227.045,"text":"那這些場所當然對台灣人也是最貼近日常的那以公園為例我們近來也發現公園中有多了一些簡單的運動設施像中校新生站旁邊的中校公園就簡單的這個什麼胸推裝置那永和的人愛公園就有可以讓民眾練伏力挺身 兩臥起坐還有固定式的壺鈴 滑步機可以練肌力跟肌耐力"},{"start":228.826,"end":230.411,"text":"等等好那我想要請問次長說那針對公園這個運動"},{"start":235.331,"end":258.686,"text":"裝置的這個推廣或設置還有民眾安全使用的教育那你會來怎麼樣跟縣市政府來合作因為公園的設置是縣市政府的職權是 包委員我想這部分讓我們用政策來引導我們其實有編一些經費接下來明年能夠跟縣市政府希望他能夠提出一些他們的現有的既有的場館給全民使用的場館能夠做一些修繕"},{"start":259.987,"end":275.979,"text":"開放讓我們的運動事業或是一些教練們來承租場地來推動全民動這件事情這部分讓我們先把它規劃好我們來跟地方政府好好的合作那再來本席跟你談談棒球喔最近傳"},{"start":277.06,"end":290.131,"text":"有企業到中國要投資棒球聯盟那所謂的這個中國棒球城市聯賽那當然有傳出要使用台灣歷史這個將近40年的這個球隊精神象徵的這個對揮那這部分這個亞洲國那個棒總昨天澄清說沒有啦那當然也有流傳說這個聯賽有把台灣的101的這個放在這個宣傳圖中就像這個圖一樣"},{"start":306.224,"end":330.955,"text":"那甚至前天有公布什麼旺旺黑皮隊那球隊有介紹還特別強調棒球是回家的運動那我想這個事情引發台灣球迷很多的憤怒跟擔心那我們最值得要注意的是說這個聯賽還有規定喔三分之一的台港澳球員而且目標是要用三年時間推動這個中國棒球的職業化"},{"start":332.955,"end":351.107,"text":"我想其他的運動賽事也有很多台灣球隊到中國發展台灣球員到中國發展可是棒球的特殊性在於我們的棒球歷史很悠久而且我們三級棒球根基也扎實我們的男子棒球的全世界排名也都名列前茅"},{"start":352.984,"end":369.616,"text":"特別是十二強啦 團結了台灣人的心所以我們在擔心說 這麼讓台灣人引以為傲的棒球那又將國軍我捧起啦所以我們也在擔心說 像職棒聯盟的人才啊我們防護員啊 我們的基層教練啊都被挖走"},{"start":370.536,"end":384.54,"text":"所以當然啦 我認為啦這個短期內中國要這樣有強勢的變化可能也困難可是難保10年20年後這個中國會搶走台灣在世界棒種的話語權所以"},{"start":386.741,"end":415.04,"text":"政治長跟蔡昌會長你們都說得很好說壯大自己我們就不會擔心對岸跟這個全世界其他的職業棒球的競爭可是我想請教的是說除了強化運動員或教練這種人才的國族認同跟政治風險的辨識跟法治教育以外你還可以有什麼太多的實際的作為來防範這個台灣的高端的運動產業人才被中國挖走"},{"start":416.045,"end":430.774,"text":"我想我們這段時間會持續跟陸委會以及中華職棒的蔡委長保持聯繫當然我會提出說我們先把自己壯大原因就是因為就跟美國大聯盟一樣他不怕他的球員跑來台灣"},{"start":431.534,"end":457.637,"text":"他会希望你台湾的球员跑去大联盟所以我们在这整个的支持方面从过去的体育会体育署到运动部不只是人才来培育三级的培训之外我们对中职不管他的硬体他的赛事的国家队的一个支持还有甚至我们现在也希望他在整个东亚区域或是亚洲的区域他能够扮演一个比较举足村众的一个地位希望"},{"start":458.417,"end":475.818,"text":"未来我们台湾是比日本职棒还有韩国职棒还要更好的一个发展如果这样才有可能把高端人才留住所以这部分我们持续会跟陆委会还有中华职棒这边来保持联系我想蔡会长也蛮多的想法"},{"start":476.318,"end":491.837,"text":"就要满足一些壮大自己的条件没有错好那接下来就是棒球它虽然是我们台湾的口中的这个国球可是我们很清楚知道实际参与棒球的人口可能还有成长的空间"},{"start":492.558,"end":512.574,"text":"那要提升棒球的運動人口我想至少要讓民眾可以有練習傳接球啦簡單揮棒的這個場地那在台灣學校裡面它基於那個安全的考量其實運動場學校是不能讓人家玩球的甚至你在公園要玩球好像也會被驅趕"},{"start":513.815,"end":529.188,"text":"可是我們去日本旅遊我們看到日本其實我們看小朋友都是在空地啊學校在玩棒球好那所以我覺得增加練習棒球的空間就變得非常重要喔那我們就或許不用到專業的場地可是"},{"start":530.549,"end":554.942,"text":"可能可以在學校啊或者是公園的空地架設所謂的高架護網那規定使用軟式棒球來練習那就可以減低這個安全的疑慮那我想請教次長說怎麼樣增加民眾去安全打棒球的場地那不曉得我這樣的說法您認同嗎或者您要其他什麼看法怎麼樣實際作為來幫忙營造這個好的運動棒球環境"},{"start":559.665,"end":574.408,"text":"包委員其實您講得我非常的認同不只是棒球連足球也是遇到一樣的狀況是所以我想不管是互網還是微網這些部分我們再跟國教署這邊來研議看看是不是可以提供給學校更多的選擇我想因為這是校園裡面的一個文化"},{"start":575.389,"end":600.507,"text":"大部分很多的校長他會擔心因為你今天受傷了那基於公共保險他還要跑來找學校說你要幫我理賠很多的一個行政上的一個他們覺得比較麻煩的之處那這也是全民動物署現在必須要跟國教署去談整個合作的機制校園開放才能讓這個文化去做翻轉才能讓我們的學校能夠放心的把場地開放出來好 這部分料真的要好好研議一下好不好"},{"start":602.148,"end":625.164,"text":"最後要跟你請教一個資格上的問題就今年在高雄有舉辦全國原住民族運動會那下一屆是後年在台中舉辦那今年有通過評普原住民族身份法那未來就會有評普原住民的身份的人來進行法律身份的這個正式登記不過我們依照我們這個全國原住民族運動會"},{"start":626.565,"end":655.717,"text":"舉辦準則第11條參加原民運的選手其原住民族的身份依原住民身份法規定認定之那可是秉持的大法官所述平埔原住民就是原住民的精神喔所以我想這個身份的認定可能要建議這個第一個就是說平埔原住民的個人取得原住民身份他經過這個民族別的核定才可以去做身份登記那現在原民會正在處理這件事情"},{"start":656.337,"end":679.569,"text":"所以現在後年的今年來不及了那後年的原民運喔在事前的參賽資格認定上第一個我覺得應該是要修法就修改這個準則啦來讓平衡原住民族也可以參加就是說你依原住民身份法你可能要再多加依照還要還在另一還要再多依一個平衡原住民族身份法那另外就是說"},{"start":680.229,"end":705.171,"text":"如果民主別還有在審議的時候因為他這個民主別沒有審議成功無人就沒有辦法去登記那所以如果是這樣的話在這個就是你參賽前那他可能資格沒辦法做確認的時候那這個時候是不是要跟園民會去研議一下怎麼樣在過渡期間去確認這些人的報名資格市長"},{"start":706.156,"end":718.364,"text":"謝謝委員提醒這的確知識體大就讓我們全民動作署來跟園民會這邊來做一個討論好那是不是給本席一個你們研議後的報告書面報告三個月可以嗎OK好沒有問題好謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165267","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165267","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3b1f6645f29a3553a57c737e12387eef8a983a902744326173eca6ea80bfd1def5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"10:45:44 - 10:57:47","影片長度":"00:12:03","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:45:44+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:57:47+08:00","duration":723,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":0.25034375000000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.130968750000001,"end":12.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.82284375,"end":8.856593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.329093750000002,"end":9.750968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.46784375,"end":15.117218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.344718750000002,"end":17.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.20096875,"end":19.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.04034375,"end":21.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.559093750000002,"end":25.832843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.47409375,"end":27.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.53284375,"end":40.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.35784375,"end":45.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.34034375,"end":46.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.17534375,"end":52.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.908468750000004,"end":55.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.937843750000006,"end":60.375968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.869718750000004,"end":60.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.40971875,"end":61.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.962218750000005,"end":64.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.91534375,"end":67.17659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.44659375,"end":73.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.29784375,"end":78.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.88784375,"end":81.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.46534375,"end":84.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.81096875,"end":88.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.70909375000001,"end":92.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.79284375,"end":93.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.47596875,"end":96.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.18034375,"end":99.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.43284375,"end":103.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.06534375000001,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.69346875000001,"end":110.61284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.27096875000001,"end":115.08471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.70909375000001,"end":120.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.94034375000001,"end":127.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.87596875000001,"end":128.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.66034375,"end":132.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.27596875,"end":134.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.46971875,"end":136.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.30909375000002,"end":138.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.97971875000002,"end":140.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.67971875,"end":142.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.41784375,"end":144.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.88596875000002,"end":147.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.04159375,"end":149.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.99471875,"end":153.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.30221875,"end":155.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.82096875000002,"end":157.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.45346875,"end":159.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.27596875,"end":161.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.23784375,"end":165.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.30034375000002,"end":168.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.06784375,"end":171.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.45971875,"end":177.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.87659375,"end":180.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.40784375,"end":183.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.40721875,"end":185.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.02721875,"end":188.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.92971875,"end":190.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.65096875,"end":191.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.81096875,"end":194.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.22409375,"end":197.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.05909375000002,"end":199.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.25284375,"end":204.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.29721875,"end":213.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.74846875,"end":224.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.50221875000003,"end":230.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.72096875000003,"end":236.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.47909375,"end":240.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.49534375000002,"end":245.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.93346875,"end":248.53221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.62909375,"end":251.04659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.99159375000002,"end":254.10096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.42159375000003,"end":256.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.34096875,"end":260.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.07034375,"end":263.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.24284375,"end":270.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.53721875,"end":274.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.22846875,"end":275.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.37159375000005,"end":278.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.75096875,"end":281.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.14721875000004,"end":285.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.80471875,"end":288.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.23471875,"end":292.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.26784375,"end":294.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.90034375000005,"end":300.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.30034375,"end":302.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.17346875000004,"end":306.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.50159375000004,"end":311.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.26909375,"end":313.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.60221875,"end":317.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.00659375000004,"end":318.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.44096875,"end":319.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.96409375,"end":323.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.92534375,"end":327.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.58284375,"end":334.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.43846875,"end":338.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.77534375000005,"end":341.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.51346875,"end":341.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.64409375,"end":349.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.76534375,"end":349.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.79909375,"end":349.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.74409375000005,"end":352.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.03909375,"end":355.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.24534375,"end":357.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.69221875,"end":360.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.44284375,"end":363.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.87284375,"end":366.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.12971875000005,"end":368.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.08721875000003,"end":371.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.34846875000005,"end":373.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.96409375,"end":375.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.29284375000003,"end":377.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.35159375,"end":378.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.38909375000003,"end":382.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.44784375,"end":384.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.78096875,"end":385.33784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.99596875000003,"end":387.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.20659375,"end":391.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.23971875,"end":393.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.04534375000003,"end":399.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.03159375,"end":402.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.80346875000004,"end":404.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.89596875,"end":406.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.60034375000004,"end":408.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.46909375,"end":410.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.18159375000005,"end":414.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.23159375,"end":427.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.66034375000004,"end":427.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.09471875,"end":430.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.22096875000005,"end":433.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.73096875000005,"end":436.67159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.38034375,"end":439.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.11846875000003,"end":444.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.59846875000005,"end":445.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.61534375,"end":447.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.72471875,"end":451.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.82596875,"end":448.51784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.05346875000004,"end":452.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.38659375000003,"end":452.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.97284375000004,"end":455.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.12471875000006,"end":453.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.17909375000005,"end":457.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.98471875,"end":461.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.81534375,"end":462.47346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.50284375,"end":464.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.79784375,"end":466.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.09284375000004,"end":469.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.62409375000004,"end":472.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.58971875000003,"end":476.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.88471875000005,"end":478.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.31471875000005,"end":480.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.38596875,"end":483.14534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.05659375000005,"end":485.67659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.36846875000003,"end":487.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.49471875,"end":489.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.86159375000005,"end":490.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.44784375,"end":495.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.66659375,"end":495.76784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.27409375,"end":496.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.29096875000005,"end":506.63534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.11346875000004,"end":498.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.71659375,"end":499.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.61471875,"end":504.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.63534375000006,"end":506.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.31034375,"end":507.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.32721875000004,"end":512.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.00596875,"end":511.69784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.7609687500001,"end":515.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.65471875,"end":519.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.45596875,"end":525.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.5478437500001,"end":527.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.3828437500001,"end":530.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.42471875,"end":533.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.39471875,"end":535.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.63471875,"end":539.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.0603437500001,"end":547.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.97909375,"end":548.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.8859687500001,"end":554.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.8090937500001,"end":557.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.96909375,"end":559.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.4284687500001,"end":566.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.9297187500001,"end":568.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.66346875,"end":571.3172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.03409375,"end":574.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.55721875,"end":576.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.29096875,"end":579.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.68721875,"end":580.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.3872187500001,"end":584.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.29409375,"end":587.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.4497187500001,"end":588.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.10784375,"end":588.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.5803437500001,"end":588.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.7490937499999,"end":589.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.10346875,"end":589.8797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.1159687500001,"end":594.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.84096875,"end":595.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.24596875,"end":597.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.1147187500001,"end":601.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.60784375,"end":601.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.58659375,"end":603.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.71284375,"end":611.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.3615937500001,"end":611.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.42471875,"end":614.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.38221875,"end":615.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.9765937500001,"end":620.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.87471875,"end":623.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.8615937500001,"end":628.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.86971875,"end":627.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.3715937500001,"end":628.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.70909375,"end":628.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.7934687500001,"end":630.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.00409375,"end":634.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.64471875,"end":638.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.13784375,"end":640.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.84221875,"end":642.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.0022187500001,"end":644.7234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.9384687500001,"end":647.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.98846875,"end":650.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.1528437500001,"end":652.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.9709687500001,"end":658.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.21471875,"end":664.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.3953437499999,"end":666.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.4878437500001,"end":668.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.8503437500001,"end":672.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.3984687500001,"end":674.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.3303437500001,"end":678.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.4353437500001,"end":682.4897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.9409687500001,"end":687.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.4340937500001,"end":689.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.4040937500001,"end":694.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.1753437500001,"end":697.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":697.94721875,"end":698.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.1453437499999,"end":702.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.4484687500001,"end":704.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.67596875,"end":707.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.29159375,"end":709.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.97909375,"end":713.2865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.24846875,"end":721.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.2978437500001,"end":722.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.97284375,"end":723.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.97284375,"end":723.96846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.173,"end":25.481,"text":"主席有請徐次長還有王富密署長請徐次長還有王富密委員好委員早兩位好我在這邊要表達對民進黨崇高的敬意"},{"start":26.55,"end":46.083,"text":"真的是非常了不起短短九年就把台灣從科技島變成詐騙島我道歉不是詐騙島是詐騙帝國為什麼連太子都來了太子都來了詐騙太子把詐騙皇宮設在哪裡請問市長你知道設在哪裡嗎富麗堂皇詐騙皇宮設在台灣的門面啊你知道吧哪裡"},{"start":54.98,"end":77.695,"text":"報告委員 我聽不懂他的皇宮是說他是有租的辦公室你聽不懂啊 院長都聽不懂 聽得懂你聽不懂設在101大樓啦辦公室啦原來是什麼 義式店啦不是皇宮是義式店啦 皇宮是那個多少多少間豪宅11啊對啊 11座皇宮 真開心啊"},{"start":82.523,"end":93.33,"text":"你知道這個詐騙太子在台灣能夠橫行無阻的詐騙皇帝是誰背後靠山是誰有個太子總有個皇帝吧當他靠山是誰你知道嗎你知道是誰嗎我告訴你就是無能待舵的行政團隊養出這樣一個詐騙太子吃香喝辣 橫行無阻"},{"start":107.708,"end":134.163,"text":"你不要講不只是這一個 來 我要問齁這個太子集團2016年6月就來台北然後在101成立了天旭國際公司表面上是開發博弈系統實際上是開始進行相關的洗錢操作嘛對不對是啊 對啊慶祝民進黨政黨輪替"},{"start":137.909,"end":163.484,"text":"2016年6月真是眼光獨到眼光獨到知道今天詐騙皇帝可以當靠山了換人執政了知道有一個怠惰無能的政府上來之後趕快來台灣打造一個詐騙天堂那我再問啊你知道這太子集團啊在柬埔寨有十個園區詐騙園區"},{"start":166.343,"end":180.547,"text":"很多人被拐賣過去用殺豬盤的方式詐騙騙到最後現在美國司法部查扣他名下的比特幣資產高達150億美元將近4500億以上的台幣這麼大的一個犯罪集團詐騙組織來台發展九年啦美方的調查"},{"start":195.293,"end":204.176,"text":"甚至來台不下十次我想請問市長我們的政府的法務單位減掉對此都一無所惜毫無警覺嗎"},{"start":215.235,"end":239.574,"text":"因為他當時進來是以商務的目的進來的那是移民署依法合法准許的路徑所以是移民署的錯不是移民署的錯就是說這一個部分的話是合法的市長你講這話的意義到底在哪裡point在哪裡哪一個詐騙集團進來的時候他就跟我講我是詐騙集團會嗎不會吧有哪一個詐騙集團進台灣跟你講他是詐騙集團"},{"start":241.587,"end":255.519,"text":"九年你們 到最後 劉世芳部長的名言啊是配合哪一個國家調查的啊配合美國調查的啊如果美國今天沒有調查我們就讓他繼續壯大了11個詐騙皇宮不夠 搞個20個養心殿設在101 是這個意思嗎"},{"start":264.261,"end":292.414,"text":"包委員 如果犯罪行為是發生在境外的話的確我們在得到的情節是比較困難犯罪行為發生在境外洗錢在發生在哪裡啊 請問啊發生在台灣啦這麼大的資金的流轉請問 我不講保護部而已啊檢調 金管會還有包括我們所有的講打造 講國家對 講多少年啦"},{"start":293.536,"end":317.108,"text":"講多少年了你光這件事情你叫國人怎麼對我們政府打造有信心呢來我想請問我們到底什麼時候開始掌握太子集團在台灣的非法活動今年10月美方採取司法行動我們到底什麼時候掌握的這個案子是在今年10月15號北檢分案真好"},{"start":319.505,"end":341.284,"text":"今年10月15號北檢分案剛好什麼慶祝美國來調查就完完全全印證了劉四方講的嘛前面要嘛無能要嘛怠惰要嘛裝死網友還說合理懷疑九年可以搞得在台灣搞得這麼盛盛大大是不是中間其實有人謀不章"},{"start":343.214,"end":367.993,"text":"這次為什麼說我們會趕快召開會議到底哪一個環節是我們疏漏的我告訴你啊其實也不用召開會議啦 為什麼美國沒有來調查連那會議都不用召開啦我再想請教啊你知道現在我們看到今天台灣的詐騙嚴重到什麼程度太子集團這種荒腔走板的事情九年無知無覺"},{"start":369.144,"end":392.538,"text":"到美國司法部動了以後10月15號才開始分案來來來 我想問一下很好啊 辦了對不對來幾乎所有人都交保吧壓了四位剩下那些交保裡面有的保金3萬 15萬都不到100萬"},{"start":394.11,"end":410.254,"text":"然後這些交保裡面有一個特助對不對 關鍵人士網路上在講在法庭感覺非常輕鬆感覺非常輕鬆好像回到溫暖的家的感覺一樣15萬交保我真的不太清楚"},{"start":417.387,"end":444.417,"text":"四千多億 四千五百億 四千六百億的全球詐騙金額光台灣今天涉案的一些相關金額查扣的一些資產就四十五億了耶結果十五萬CEO左右手就可以交保那我不知道你們到底辦案的決心在哪裡啊那我舉個例子 你知道黃嶼錦如國民黨的主委黃嶼錦如多少錢交保嗎 知道嗎"},{"start":445.629,"end":472.14,"text":"那個案件跟案件涉案的罪名以及他的身份當然不一樣啦一個偽造文書交保一千萬啦另外一個什麼詐騙詐到人家全球多少人家破人亡15萬交保當然不一樣啊後詐騙後代詐騙我還沒講柯文哲77萬交保"},{"start":474.659,"end":495.112,"text":"我告訴次長 我也告訴副秘書長全國人民都在看 都在看台灣詐騙嚴不嚴重 你告訴我 嚴不嚴重嚴不嚴重 次長 猛心自問比起民進黨上台之前嚴不嚴重最近是有比較嚴重"},{"start":496.505,"end":515.471,"text":"不是最近 次長你真是客氣我是講說我在當檢察官的時候跟現在比起來當然比較清楚但是現在目前案件是減少的你詐騙金額足足一直在飆升你案件你跟我講減少我到現在為止你們還在那邊凹那個什麼那個詐騙儀被凹板你要怎麼去定義"},{"start":520.489,"end":548.526,"text":"我要你們去定義光一個太子集團全球就搞了4500億150億美金光一個太子集團詐騙太子來台灣全球在搞這是光宗耀祖啊台灣真是光芒萬丈啊你到現在詐騙國家隊到底花了多少資源去支持詐騙國家隊你們到底交出什麼成績單然後我再問喔"},{"start":549.929,"end":578.872,"text":"你知道詐騙多嚴重到什麼程度我永遠信心念念我在這個質詢台上質詢很多次我想請問一下次長你知道有史以來台灣被綁架的人數被關押的人數被拘禁的人數因為詐騙集團最多的一次是發生在哪一年不知道 我告訴你很有名2022年的台版柬埔寨"},{"start":580.067,"end":602.759,"text":"但是61個受害者被關在三坪大的房間是幾個人被虐待死亡三人三個啊你的數字還錯的三個是抓到的時候三個今年八月多發現了一個四個"},{"start":604.758,"end":633.777,"text":"今年八月不小心多發現了一個所以答案是不是四個我都不知道你恐怕也不知道因為可能還有不知道的受害者被埋在哪裡都不知道慘絕人寰令人髮指請問發生在誰執政的時候我想這個跟執政是誰執政一點沒有關係當然有關係詐騙越來越嚴重難道跟今天執政者的無能沒關係"},{"start":635.697,"end":663.829,"text":"再來我要跟你講這我還是回到一件事情到這種程度關61個人不罰所得4億元虐殺4個人結果沒有判死刑耶也是民進黨另外一個偉大的傑作啊民進黨實施廢死判決之後真的很難判死刑啊大法官會議實施廢死判決之後連這種案件都判不了死刑啊"},{"start":665.958,"end":694.602,"text":"61個人被關4個人被虐殺不法所得4億元沒事不會判死刑不用擔心我講的是一個系統性的問題為什麼今天詐騙集團在台灣如此猖狂因為進到法院15萬交保我可以笑得很開心啊回到家的感覺真溫暖啊因為可以足足9年美國司法部不動我們台灣的民進黨就不動"},{"start":696.206,"end":720.565,"text":"我直接跟你講啊我真的非常嚴重的質疑除了怠惰無能以外有沒有其他的因素啊有沒有其他的因素啊今天還只講一個太子集團詐騙太子多少嚴重的詐騙案件一個一個發生我們到底今天辦了誰抓了誰到底打擊了什麼詐騙我拜託次長你們回去好好想一想 謝謝謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165266","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165266","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3d60c0cb73c5002dd906ee7c1e9a76e5a1bffb99621b7826e29602ffc9a9b6cbf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林思銘","委員發言時間":"10:43:15 - 10:56:23","影片長度":"00:13:08","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:43:15+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:56:23+08:00","duration":788,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.92471875,"end":9.177218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.008468750000002,"end":10.054718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.83471875,"end":15.066593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.657218750000002,"end":22.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.76159375,"end":27.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.722843750000003,"end":30.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.840343750000002,"end":36.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.290968750000005,"end":43.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.17596875,"end":53.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.66096875,"end":46.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.14534375,"end":51.314093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.64721875,"end":62.805968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.89471875,"end":62.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.565343750000004,"end":86.59971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.39596875000001,"end":67.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.90346875,"end":90.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.69221875000001,"end":88.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.77659375,"end":104.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.71721875,"end":90.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.65596875,"end":104.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.80784375,"end":108.50346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.85784375,"end":112.73909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.89096875000001,"end":118.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.54409375,"end":128.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.83909375,"end":120.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.04034375,"end":130.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.69409375,"end":133.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.44471875000002,"end":136.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.71846875,"end":146.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.62909375,"end":141.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.83096875,"end":147.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.41721875000002,"end":147.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.46784375000001,"end":147.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.61971875,"end":149.44221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.48034375,"end":153.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.18034375000002,"end":151.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.39534375000002,"end":153.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.26846875,"end":159.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.80346875,"end":162.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.38096875000002,"end":166.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.90784375,"end":171.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.59909375,"end":174.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.75471875000002,"end":177.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.52221875,"end":187.37721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.37721875000003,"end":187.44471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.44471875000002,"end":188.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.59659375,"end":189.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.76096875000002,"end":191.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.06846875000002,"end":197.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.49846875,"end":196.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.75534375,"end":202.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.18909375,"end":210.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.63096875000002,"end":224.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.33346875,"end":227.42159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.86471875,"end":229.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.27784375000002,"end":232.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.16784375,"end":235.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.53846875000002,"end":237.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.46659375000002,"end":236.77034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.27221875,"end":242.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.27159375000002,"end":247.67159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.82346875000002,"end":263.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.13034375,"end":257.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.02346875,"end":270.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.85784375000003,"end":275.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.13971875000004,"end":279.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.10534375000003,"end":283.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.64909375,"end":289.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.02784375000005,"end":293.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.67284375,"end":296.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.57534375,"end":305.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.43471875,"end":310.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.88534375,"end":315.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.94784375,"end":316.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.26409375000003,"end":320.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.82471875000005,"end":322.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.81596875,"end":326.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.46096875,"end":334.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.15159375,"end":336.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.07534375,"end":342.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.93096875000003,"end":349.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.41534375000003,"end":349.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.44471875000005,"end":350.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.91284375000004,"end":361.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.03096875,"end":351.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.02221875000004,"end":353.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.94159375000004,"end":357.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.02534375000005,"end":363.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.73784375,"end":363.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.83909375,"end":364.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.17659375000005,"end":364.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.36221875,"end":364.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.44659375000003,"end":364.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.46346875,"end":366.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.48034375000003,"end":373.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.92284375,"end":368.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.13721875000005,"end":380.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.09846875000005,"end":379.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.61284375,"end":381.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.88284375,"end":385.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.47284375000004,"end":386.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.24471875,"end":397.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.77471875000003,"end":404.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.45346875,"end":401.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.57534375,"end":406.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.72284375000004,"end":406.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.27971875000003,"end":408.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.18659375000004,"end":412.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.38846875,"end":413.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.50221875000005,"end":414.80159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.27409375,"end":416.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.64096875,"end":426.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.73221875,"end":437.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.04284375000003,"end":440.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.77659375,"end":442.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.91534375000003,"end":442.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.96596875,"end":443.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.03346875000005,"end":443.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.10096875000005,"end":443.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.13471875000005,"end":443.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.67471875,"end":443.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.82659375000003,"end":444.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.92784375,"end":454.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.21846875000006,"end":449.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.03159375,"end":458.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.79471875,"end":460.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.66346875000005,"end":463.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.14409375,"end":465.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.74721875,"end":471.75471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.54034375000003,"end":466.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.29471875,"end":475.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.36159375000005,"end":486.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.46159375,"end":501.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.67471875,"end":499.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.16784375000003,"end":505.53846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.90971875,"end":518.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.30534375,"end":512.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.0984687499999,"end":513.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.29159375,"end":519.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.3928437500001,"end":519.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.13534375,"end":521.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.86096875,"end":523.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.26159375,"end":527.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.79659375,"end":547.2703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.43221875,"end":538.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.46471875,"end":547.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.28721875,"end":547.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.3547187500001,"end":547.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.9284687500001,"end":560.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.2765937500001,"end":565.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.6809687500001,"end":577.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.9509687500001,"end":567.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.6340937500001,"end":568.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.76034375,"end":571.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.71284375,"end":577.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.7297187500001,"end":577.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.9153437500001,"end":581.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.19784375,"end":579.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.35784375,"end":582.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.20159375,"end":584.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.2478437500001,"end":587.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.0322187500001,"end":589.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.66909375,"end":600.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.25846875,"end":607.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.12221875,"end":611.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.74596875,"end":612.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.3234687500001,"end":612.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.44159375,"end":616.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.3859687500001,"end":625.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.44784375,"end":628.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.86096875,"end":639.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.69471875,"end":642.3272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.8672187500001,"end":648.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.87471875,"end":649.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.39346875,"end":655.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.2622187500001,"end":656.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.9284687500001,"end":659.2022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.72159375,"end":657.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.39221875,"end":662.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.2859687499999,"end":665.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.6865937500002,"end":665.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.54721875,"end":666.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.01971875,"end":667.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.27284375,"end":670.1709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.79971875,"end":671.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.2509687500001,"end":672.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.8203437500001,"end":674.0690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.61346875,"end":675.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":674.4740937500001,"end":676.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.0772187500002,"end":681.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.39346875,"end":680.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.5109687500001,"end":688.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.2734687500001,"end":695.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.13346875,"end":698.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.20909375,"end":710.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":711.10971875,"end":715.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.39659375,"end":713.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.2609687500001,"end":715.2778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.2778437500001,"end":715.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.2947187500001,"end":715.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.48034375,"end":732.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.51409375,"end":715.5647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.8615937500001,"end":740.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":733.08096875,"end":734.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.5615937500002,"end":736.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":736.43909375,"end":737.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":739.7465937500001,"end":744.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":743.07096875,"end":748.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.5009687500001,"end":753.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.1115937500001,"end":754.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":755.32221875,"end":762.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.20721875,"end":763.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":764.0972187500001,"end":766.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":766.0378437500001,"end":769.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":766.54409375,"end":767.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.8390937500001,"end":772.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.1928437500001,"end":776.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":776.7197187500001,"end":778.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":778.47471875,"end":781.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":779.0147187500002,"end":783.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":782.42346875,"end":787.8740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":787.8740937500002,"end":788.4309687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.343,"end":30.631,"text":"好 謝謝召委請那個主委我們請彭主委委員長主委早主委有關於虛擬資產服務法草案中對於穩定幣都是關於發行端的規定但是未來末端的消費教育使用才是穩定幣應用普及以及流通性的關鍵所以我要請問主委"},{"start":31.952,"end":61.512,"text":"是否支持未來讓穩定幣成為日常消費使用的交易貨幣形態之一我想剛剛委員講的沒有錯穩定幣要能夠順利的發展它的應用場景要存在所以剛剛講說應用場景裡面大家現在在提到的有幾個應用場景一個就是日常的支付再來第二個就是可能跨境的所以現在我們金管會的政策就是穩定幣成為日常消費使用交易貨幣的形態是你現在要去極力去發展的"},{"start":61.932,"end":86.17,"text":"沒有 現在沒有我現在應該這樣講說我們現在是針對穩定幣的發行面進行規範場景的部分它要去形成一個生態圈我剛剛跟文綺講過支付在國外是一個它使用的場景第二個就是跨國交易的匯兌是一個再來就是虛擬資產的交易是另外一個至少我們看到了這個三個場景比如說我們為什麼放在虛擬資產交易服務法裡面"},{"start":87.091,"end":107.8,"text":"那個虛擬資產服務法裡面主委 這個我都了解其實我想進一步就問你就是說因為我們最重要的還是末端的消費教育使用所以對於這個穩定幣末端消費使用的管控我們是不是會有進一步的規定那當然一定會 去營造穩定的使用環境"},{"start":108.92,"end":136.324,"text":"我們看到現在我們非常普遍的各種的電子支付工具像是LiPay Apple Pay或者接口支付或者一些消費通路商自行發行的電子支付已經非常普遍了所以主委你未來是否有規劃讓穩定幣與這些電子支付或者信用卡的結合穩定幣會跟這些支付工具結合以推廣穩定幣的使用"},{"start":136.964,"end":146.387,"text":"這其實勢必假設穩定開放以後市場就會去尋求他使用的場景我覺得就剛才講過這會是一個支付有可能都會去做規劃你要去規劃不能說有可能我剛剛委員講過就是會一定會觸及到這個問題的規範謝謝"},{"start":154.329,"end":172.28,"text":"另外我們看到央行總裁楊總裁他在10月14號表示台灣當然有發行穩定幣的空間但是要由金融機構來發行但是我們監管會提出的《虛擬資產服務法》的草案中對於穩定幣發行人的規定"},{"start":174.861,"end":188.028,"text":"是穩定幣發行人應設置與維持足額的資產準備準備資產儲存於境內的金融機構也就是並沒有限制發行人必須為金融機構所以這個發行人的資格"},{"start":192.19,"end":210.073,"text":"你是否是跟央行的意見一樣因為央行講說是要由金融機構來發行嗎沒有 總裁講的是說我們可能第一階段我們大家的共識因為未來穩定幣的發行是必須要由央行跟金管會共管那我們這裡面因為我們這個法的架構我們會預留未來的彈性我們是"},{"start":212.335,"end":236.924,"text":"參考MICA就歐盟他們的規定它沒有限定只有金融機構但是我們剛開始的時候我們已經先開始講說基於穩健安全我們先會優先讓金融機構來發行是 所以還是以目前的規劃對 就是這個央行跟我們講是我們第一步是這樣因為你沒限制你現在提供的版本沒有限制母法上面未來假設通過是沒有但是就是說我們會分階段的來做這件事情分階段來做 對其實"},{"start":238.425,"end":263.007,"text":"主委我是贊成你的意見我想我們為了節省我們台商遵轉的行費與降低匯率的一個價差損應該就是落實讓本國的金融機構來做一個虛擬貨幣交易平台的這樣的業務讓我們境外的台商可以透過我們熟悉的本國銀行進行穩定幣的交易"},{"start":264.068,"end":282.396,"text":"好 接下來這個我們回到剛才那個集會委員關心的太子集團的詐騙案所以我們依據媒體的報導關於太子集團在台涉及洗錢的案子其中這個集團以8家的空殼公司購買了和平大院共11戶 48個停車會10家登錄是高達38億1650萬"},{"start":290.42,"end":307.168,"text":"就是我們現在PPT所呈現的我們看到這11戶的返產編號1到7都是5家空殼公司同一位零信負責人出面以現金購買購買時間是在108年的4月到12月總金額高達新台幣24億9千多萬"},{"start":315.987,"end":336.432,"text":"所以主委這五家空殼公司都是以現金購買它的資金來源橋外資金是 沒錯是橋外資金所以這個20億的資金來源儘管會銀行局對這些橋外資金的來源是否有異樣難道都沒有去監管"},{"start":337.133,"end":356.024,"text":"有 剛剛已經跟委員有做過很明確的說明這裡面其實不全然是他的現金裡面有部分是用借款而來剛剛講的金額差不多是借款而來其中有一部分總額大約30幾億因為剛剛委員講是實價登錄對 實價登錄的金額像比如我們就有針對這去理解我先講1到7是現金購買的"},{"start":364.189,"end":384.715,"text":"当然去买房子最后的话一定是用现金去买交给建商一粒现金只是说它的来源是自有资金还是从银行贷款而来我一条一条跟你问这编号1到7的都是现金购买五家空壳公司买的所以这几家现金是高达24亿9千多万"},{"start":385.555,"end":403.233,"text":"金額這麼龐大但是直接付給建設公司還是說用匯款的還是說是用虛擬的貨幣支付金管會有沒有掌握當時有沒有掌握匯款都有金流他用很多是銀行支票去付的因為這個都有透過銀行的帳戶"},{"start":404.639,"end":415.932,"text":"透過這個支票他來自橋外資金啊橋外資的時候我們也有去徵提說你有沒有得到政府的許可他們也都也提出了這樣的一個所以你當時察覺沒有異樣"},{"start":416.673,"end":440.668,"text":"不是沒有異樣我剛才講過就是說其實我們所謂異樣這件事情我們有一套自己的洗房的這些的觸發的機制的通報所以STR這個異常交易的通報其實主委現在你一直強調你們當時認為說這些資金二十幾億你們當時有去調查有去調查你現在強調有去調查嗎就是當時我們現在去看銀行有沒有也認為沒有異樣嘛你們當時認為沒有異樣嘛"},{"start":444.037,"end":463.035,"text":"所以就讓他從橋外資金就進來然後去匯給這個建設公司因為現金嘛現金這麼龐大啊你是這個橋外資金進來到底是怎麼樣付給建設公司他的金流的整個狀況"},{"start":464.192,"end":471.636,"text":"不是 我想說這個剛剛 你剛才說你有查因為剛才我這樣我有時間你說你有查但是我只想問你經過這幾年事後的驗證"},{"start":476.594,"end":505.324,"text":"這些錢都是詐騙而來的錢都是有問題的錢現在金管會你告訴我們當時都是合法的金管會當時是睡著了嗎如果你要仔細聽我講的話應該不是這樣講就是說那是我們本來銀行本身它就賦予一個必須要去偵測這筆錢的異常要通報的業務通報以後我們整個國家機器會來判斷這件事情是不是該進一步的去做犯罪偵房的動作"},{"start":506.044,"end":526.602,"text":"我想我們剛才講就是說因為發生這個事情以後我們的檢察局就直接進入到銀行去調他過去歷史上你每一筆這些交易是否有做到剛才講的他們看到他們都有按照這個規定去做通報我想這一部分銀行都有通報你意思是銀行都有通報剛剛局長也提到就是他們掌握的話至少有通報了五十幾次"},{"start":528.541,"end":552.176,"text":"所以這部分來看的話就是說這整個機器是不是能夠完整的去擋下這個東西我覺得問題發生了確實要虛心的檢討但是我剛才講說事後我們要解決問題一定要先了解問題發生在哪裡所以我們剛才就至少我們金流的部分我們就進去好好去了解過去有沒有什麼問題你現在確實是要虛心檢討因為當時你也不是金管會的主委"},{"start":552.856,"end":576.673,"text":"你現在當然去追究當時為什麼查不出這些錢是有問題的透過買房來洗錢所以當時我們是認為金管會真的不要推卸責任我沒有 你是延續的你現在雖然當時你不是主委但是當時怎麼會查不出來你虛心檢討的結果到底會是怎樣是你們有失職嗎"},{"start":578.479,"end":603.732,"text":"這個現在這麼大的一個經驗一下告訴我說都沒有問題結果事後驗證問題一大堆我一直講沒有問題就是不是這個意思我剛才講過就是說我們想知道民航在做這個生意有沒有他沒有按照我們的規定來做這是一個那規定做到了還是發生這個事情的時候這個案子就告訴我們必須要來好好的調整現在進入檢調的偵查階段我想你們自己內部也是要做"},{"start":604.532,"end":611.339,"text":"當然 所以說我們現在已經全面在做包括剛才講比如說購屋的金流這部分我們都在想想看什麼方法對 我一條一條來跟你討論我們剛才講的是編號1到7我們再看編號8到11"},{"start":617.455,"end":626.641,"text":"我們再看到它是利用8到11它是利用4家空殼公司跟元大銀行借貸了8億7600萬購買這4戶房產這4家空殼公司其中編號80 11這3戶各貸到跟元大銀行貸到了2億1600萬"},{"start":640.03,"end":662.559,"text":"這個是跟銀行貸款不是現金支付的那這三家空殼公司的資本額只有310萬我就想問這銀行到底是如何的去這個他是用那個存單去值借啦去販貸啊竟然准他貸到各自貸到2億多後來我們去了解他是用存單值借那家公司有匯入"},{"start":663.459,"end":684.151,"text":"存款 他用存款做直接的 匯入存款那存款的來源在哪裡就像我們拿個存單去直接是一樣的概念那他的存款來自何處就是剛才講境外的錢也是境外的錢對 就剛才講透過橋外進來所以你不覺得這很奇怪嗎我們覺得奇怪 你有境外的存單你就直接現金買我們銀行就覺得奇怪就通報了所以這是不是就涉及洗錢了但是這個時間是發生在109年5月到109年10月"},{"start":689.369,"end":709.852,"text":"所以主委這是很奇怪的資本盒只有310萬可以蓋到這麼多的資金不是他剛才是用存單直接不是用信用直接我想還是不一樣的啦我再強調這筆錢他在113年這6億多這些貸款就還清了所以這很明顯的就是藉由買房子來洗錢嘛"},{"start":711.158,"end":732.018,"text":"所以金管會你們難道都不用負相關的責任嗎這個獅子很大你們不要一直跟我講說當時都有通報銀行都有通報當時我們稽查當時都沒有問題但是明顯結果論來看整個過程都有問題太多異樣了結果金管會查不出來"},{"start":733.332,"end":746.985,"text":"這不是打詐不利嗎我們正在了解當中所以這整個金流這麼多年這麼複雜我們要去了解 何主委這個弊端我還是期許你你真的要去進去去查我們並沒有卸責我只是跟你們報告我們現在的狀況這樣如果不是美國做相關的通報到現在我們都被蒙在鼓裡我們都沒有進一步的去查這個集團有大問題"},{"start":759.116,"end":786.926,"text":"他資金那麼雄厚而且都是橋外資金結果我們竟然毫無知覺讓他這樣子其實我一直講毫無知覺真的不是這樣有知覺有知覺就不應該讓這個事情發生好不好所以我們最後就是希望金管會應該就這個事情你要盡快完成所有的調查監討金流管控上後有什麼問題該扣的錢就給他扣下來都是不法所得好不好以上 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165261","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165261","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe33f661fba613121868abc180ec3481d021bffb99621b7826eec4005c00d4bcaf05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"10:30:04 - 10:41:57","影片長度":"00:11:53","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:30:04+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:41:57+08:00","duration":713,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.3553437500000003,"end":3.7434687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.17346875,"end":7.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.654093750000001,"end":9.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.93596875,"end":14.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.661593750000002,"end":14.982218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.404093750000001,"end":54.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.385343750000004,"end":61.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.11409375,"end":128.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.19971875,"end":81.33471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.17534375,"end":195.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.66909375,"end":183.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.13534375,"end":202.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.39596875,"end":204.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.28596875000002,"end":210.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.34471875000003,"end":206.49659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.03221875000003,"end":208.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.75346875000002,"end":211.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.01909375000002,"end":211.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.08221875,"end":224.48534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.65971875000002,"end":216.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.42721875,"end":218.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.48534375000003,"end":224.90721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.22784375,"end":284.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.04971875,"end":307.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.03346875,"end":311.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.11721875,"end":317.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.50534375,"end":312.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.50471875,"end":317.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.16284375000004,"end":320.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.82096875,"end":318.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.69409375000004,"end":327.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.98471875,"end":323.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.60471875,"end":325.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.22471875,"end":331.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.58284375,"end":329.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.52346875,"end":335.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.91971875,"end":350.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.08534375000005,"end":354.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.43534375,"end":359.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.22784375000003,"end":363.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.42596875000004,"end":362.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.97846875000005,"end":364.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.23971875,"end":365.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.37471875,"end":366.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.42096875000004,"end":391.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.57284375,"end":367.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.81596875,"end":377.25471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.67096875000004,"end":387.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.32471875000005,"end":388.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.56909375000004,"end":394.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.24784375,"end":407.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.34471875,"end":395.81721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.33596875,"end":397.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.25846875,"end":418.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.75971875000005,"end":413.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.67471875,"end":425.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.47596875000005,"end":419.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.34846875000005,"end":425.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.65221875000003,"end":460.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.88034375,"end":451.11659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.90409375,"end":478.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.17409375000005,"end":462.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.96471875000003,"end":482.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.32284375,"end":485.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.43659375000004,"end":482.65596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.11971875,"end":493.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.91159375,"end":504.62721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.70471875000004,"end":494.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.52596875000006,"end":508.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.78721875,"end":511.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.23846875000004,"end":508.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.84534375,"end":512.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.3684687499999,"end":516.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.24159375,"end":515.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.4565937500001,"end":520.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.33409375,"end":517.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.8147187500001,"end":523.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.4428437500001,"end":544.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.3172187499999,"end":555.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.62784375,"end":555.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.87659375,"end":559.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.8172187499999,"end":562.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.0190937500001,"end":569.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.5590937500001,"end":562.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.22034375,"end":580.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.47596875,"end":586.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.8759687500001,"end":587.3147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.5678437500001,"end":588.8840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.5928437499999,"end":591.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.33096875,"end":591.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.34784375,"end":597.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.3647187500001,"end":592.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.33409375,"end":610.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.04284375,"end":601.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.76284375,"end":620.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.98596875,"end":612.3403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.84534375,"end":622.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.00971875,"end":622.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.66784375,"end":641.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.4328437500001,"end":662.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.35784375,"end":663.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.74159375,"end":682.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.1015937500001,"end":699.7022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.03159375,"end":714.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.25034375,"end":703.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.25846875,"end":704.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.2322187500001,"end":710.87346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.173,"end":7.694,"text":"好 有請次長請次長委員長"},{"start":16.693,"end":34.85,"text":"市长我想这个运动部的成立其实大家都聚焦在今天那今天请您来其实我们还是要针对许多的单项协会的部分来进行这个结构性的一个探讨那我想台湾的这个运动成绩还有体育的一个成绩我想是运动员他们的拼劲跟他们的家人这个"},{"start":35.971,"end":51.167,"text":"众所支持但是在体制上其实常常都会先让选手自己先去努力那之后呢回来再来继续摸索这是我们看到许多的运动员在赛场上背后他们有这样子的一个隐忧"},{"start":51.627,"end":74.13,"text":"那往往這些在賽事上其實獲得佳績的一個選手其實回到國內他們還是必須面對所謂的這個協會的不透明然後再來就是講住制度不明另外還有體系僵化的一個問題我想這已經不是一個案例而是很多的案例那我想這已經是長期需要改革的一個結構性的一個狀況"},{"start":75.131,"end":92.389,"text":"那我想請教一下就是目前我們知道其實台灣有許多的這個單向的體育的協會名義上雖然我們是說這個民間自主的來管理自主的來營運運作但實際上其實它是高度的仰賴我們的政府的一個補助"},{"start":92.99,"end":115.382,"text":"那我想這內部的一個決策還有選手的一個代表的一個席次經費的一些使用是不是還是不公開還是不夠透明還是會有一些問題甚至有些選手他會反應因為我沒有太聽話所以我也被邊緣化了我想這個是我們在線上有收到的這樣子的一個訊息那我想怎麼樣確保這些協會能夠真正的治理"},{"start":116.002,"end":137.837,"text":"落實那另外就是我們怎麼樣要求這個協會他們在公開他們的財務報告跟決策的一個記錄這個部分我們有沒有什麼樣的一個監督的手段想請教一下我們的次長我想大方向來看這些過去這幾個案子很多都是在行政員跟選手家長之間的溝通產生那些誤解"},{"start":138.618,"end":167.7,"text":"那後來在運動部在過去體育署的協助之下通常雙方都可以釐清他們的一些疑問但是在整個的經費使用上面我這邊是有跟經濟師這邊建議說我們是除了補助之外我們賦予他任務監管的部分當然會計師才有一定是要做但是我自己個人認為電子金流或許也是一個很好的工具讓協會知道它的金流必須要透明"},{"start":168.16,"end":195.652,"text":"他能看到他给选手的钱就是给选手他不是拿去做他的办活动或办比赛等等类似这样的大方向那我们给协会的补助不是全额当然通常只有一半左右其实协会还要负担很大比例的一个自筹款那我们给选手的钱除非他是亚赔队或奥赔队不然如果其他的所谓的号称国家队这些协会他们自己派去国外参加锦标赛其实他们的出国经费有一半"},{"start":196.352,"end":224.626,"text":"幾乎都是協會必須要自籌但是另外一半也就是我們講了我們賦予你任務我們當然有高度監管的責任那我們的責任具體的那我剛剛講第一個是我們會計師的查核部分我們會每兩年一次高度兩年一次那再來是兩年一次夠嗎其實已經頻率已經很頻率已經很高了那當然兩年一次不是只有那一年是兩年都要只是兩年一次那當然電子金流我覺得是一個可以使用的工具是"},{"start":225.306,"end":253.139,"text":"好 那我想這個現行的制度其實在之前我們知道10月應該是10月17號其實我們已經有韓文運動部已經有韓文這個台灣整個所有的44個相關的這個協會那就是在針對所謂的運動委員會的委員要採取這個選舉的方式來實施的一個計畫那甚至也說我們即將要修改的包含就是兩個包含這個組織的這個檢責的範本"},{"start":255.22,"end":284.038,"text":"另外一个是我们的选举实施的一个范本但是现在出现的一个问题我请教一下这个次长如果说这个协会当中他的运动员的选手的一个比例他是比较偏小型偏少的我以桌协为例如果说他因为他今年的整个所有的章程当中他说他要选出运动员的符合资格的运动员要有委员会的委员要有7人"},{"start":285.098,"end":310.108,"text":"但是如果比方說加上莊之淵他是一線的這樣子的一個教練有運動員的資格還有他的旗下的一些運動員的資格他全部加起來可能沒有過半我不知道是只有桌協還有其他的協會如果說他的運動員的比例他是沒有辦法過半的話那會不會影響到他們自己的一個權益我們要怎麼樣來捍衛這個權益"},{"start":312.168,"end":324.735,"text":"包括委員 我想您上面這個應該是可能是世界桌鞋的對 給過委員國的一些但我想這個是比堅實的部分這個是一定的比例不是看這張圖我剛剛問的是我們台灣目前運動的運動員委員會整個委員會都是現役選手的比例百分之百"},{"start":331.599,"end":359.016,"text":"除非他今年退役但我的意思是說要達到比方說像剛剛我講的就是桌協他們的一個選舉的一個辦法他是要選出運動員委員會的委員有七人但是他如果全部加進去他其實也沒有辦法過半這個會不會影響到他們自己本身的一個權益包委員我抱歉我沒有聽懂您的意思因為您在講的是理事還是運動員委員會"},{"start":360.29,"end":377.242,"text":"委員會裡頭的運動員委員會裡頭全部都是選手啊全部是是是選出這個7人其實我們剛剛有講了因為他也有可能是少數那我剛剛其實有聽到就是我助理的這個資料他也講到說他的"},{"start":378.842,"end":404.832,"text":"運動員的成員是在整個所謂的委員會當中他是少數全部加起來也達不到所謂的比方說像周協他講的7人那這個會不會影響到他們的權益我的問題是這樣我想您剛剛提的應該是理事成員沒有達到1%以上會不會影響那我們這邊提的是運動員委員會底下是所有都是成員都是在最近一屆的現役運動員"},{"start":406.693,"end":424.143,"text":"那在整個的但是他們有人數的限制我的意思是說他有人數的限制然後在他的章程上面他是不是有寫說我可能這個要7人要7到11人但是所有的運動員加進來那個是理事我們現在講的是運動員委員會那是兩件不同的事情不同的單位"},{"start":425.704,"end":442.428,"text":"那运动员委员会它为什么重要为什么要采取整个选举的制度原因就是因为我们希望未来的选训领选办法在送进选训委员会之前先能够让运动员委员会这些信誉的选手先帮忙看过"},{"start":442.808,"end":459.278,"text":"在整個辦法上面有沒有哪些的漏洞那這是他們選手最在乎的一件事情那這些OK的在送進選訓委員會比較不會出現過去在選拔方面出現不公的情況那理事會坦白講他們屬於監督的責任但是他們實質上沒有實權"},{"start":460.95,"end":477.832,"text":"理事只有针对秘书处干事部的作为有一些监督他们可以提出一些想法纠正但是真正的实权其实在委员会底下他们去来产生他们这些办法的这个产生草案然后通过让干事部去执行"},{"start":478.032,"end":493.88,"text":"所以他們是屬於監理制度對理事會是屬於監理制度他只是監理但是真正的決策其實是在幹事部以及委員會那現在問題來了這個監理制度如果他缺乏所謂的統一的要求他是不是有權限可以要求協會要來做改進我的意思是當然"},{"start":494.6,"end":511.335,"text":"當然但是保護員說實在我們當然不太可能要求整個理事有絕大一部分全部都是運動員現役選手但是但是也要有一定的比例我的問題是我們現在有運動員委員運動員理事是有的那我記得好像是"},{"start":513.427,"end":530.167,"text":"五分之一目前我们的国内规定是至少五分之一至少是五分之一那每一个都有要求到五分之一这个就是强制要求这是我们要的国际法规定的好那我刚刚有提到其实光是协会的一些问题比方说选手如果"},{"start":530.788,"end":548.519,"text":"不聽話我的意思是如果不聽話然後如果他可能會影響他出賽或者是補助的一個資格像這樣子的一個文化我們有沒有什麼樣的一個可以監督的手段來改變這樣子的一個文化這個就是回到源頭我們為什麼要運動員委員會要現役選手進來然後來協助選訓委員會他的領選辦法就是這個原因"},{"start":554.823,"end":580.097,"text":"什麼時候會開始我們應該是從他們3月陸陸續續因為我知道10月23號李洋部長已經有對外有公告包括因為明年3月所有的協會陸陸續續改選所以我們就是那個時間點的時候前後我們會讓他的運動委員會去做選舉好那有沒有一些比較明確的一個規範去限制所謂的這個協會的禮監事的任期或者是我們有沒有定期的去清查整個所有的會員的名冊"},{"start":581.499,"end":589.971,"text":"報告委員這在人民團體法似乎沒有要求說不能夠連選連任最多兩任對不起理事是最多兩任那怎麼樣來避免所謂的這個利益迴避的問題有沒有建立這樣子的一個制度"},{"start":598.413,"end":621.51,"text":"有沒有建立這樣的一個制度因為我們知道有很多的協會長期是特定人士在我們不要講把持啦是特定人士長期在掌握包委我們現在已經開放給全民都可以加入都可以當會員了所以這部分當然還是基於人民團體法還是他們自己要自願要加入然後才能夠參與嘛"},{"start":622.725,"end":648.895,"text":"好那最後一點點時間讓我提一下就是身障運動的一個發展的一個困境那我們提出來做一些參考然後之後看就是運動部這邊有沒有什麼樣的一些更新的一個回應再回應給我我想要提到這個身心障礙者的一個運動其實許多的縣市他們運動發展身心的一個發展中心其實會發現這些所謂的身障的運動常常被邊緣化包含硬體設施的一個不足"},{"start":649.756,"end":662.851,"text":"經費分配相當有限人力的專業支持度也不夠穩定所以現在我想要請教的就是目前我們的身上運動發展中心在經費上或在研究的量能上足不足夠"},{"start":663.803,"end":688.421,"text":"包委員 我們在過去試運體育的基礎之下校園內的基礎之下我們現在在試運運動我們希望能夠結合全民運動以及我們那個各個單項協會的賽事以及全民的這些聯賽我們一起打造校園外的運動平權試運動這件事情所以這個整個是一個跨師俗的合作那這邊的經費我們是有編的應該是足夠的"},{"start":690.703,"end":714.055,"text":"但是校園内的适应体育它还是属于教育的一环它还是教育部的责任但是我们会跟教育部做一个很好的一个跨部会的合作所以这个地方有没有会结合所谓的地方政府或社福单位或者是一些学界的一些列量式嘛对不对一定要好 那如果有一些比较进程的一些进程的规划或者是计划再提供文字给我们好不好谢谢委员好 谢谢谢谢好 谢谢郭玉琴委员那次长"}]}},{"id":"165265","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165265","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3cdbf5fc9b8434367fc3112febeb0f1b01bffb99621b7826eda277b577d0128215ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"10:47:01 - 10:54:42","影片長度":"00:07:41","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢。（11月12日及13日二天一次會））","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:47:01+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:54:42+08:00","duration":461,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.35159375000000004,"end":1.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.03909375,"end":2.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.77659375,"end":8.535968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.83971875,"end":20.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.134093750000002,"end":15.539093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.78721875,"end":23.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.17909375,"end":26.254718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.47409375,"end":32.430968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.751593750000005,"end":88.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.66909375,"end":47.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.50346875,"end":54.891593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.971593750000004,"end":56.56221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.32096875,"end":93.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.80534375,"end":97.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.60659375,"end":111.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.27659375,"end":102.36096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.39471875000001,"end":102.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.08096875000001,"end":114.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.14846875,"end":112.72221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.00034375000001,"end":124.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.95721875000001,"end":121.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.31534375000001,"end":170.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.58659375000002,"end":250.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.48971875,"end":250.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.52346875,"end":250.65846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.92846875,"end":251.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.24909375000001,"end":284.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.78846875,"end":283.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.02034375,"end":323.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.38971875000004,"end":328.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.22034375000004,"end":327.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.26659375,"end":334.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.00409375000004,"end":342.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.71596875,"end":347.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.61409375,"end":346.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.21721875000003,"end":348.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.41534375000003,"end":350.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.84971875,"end":350.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.72721875,"end":352.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.24596875000003,"end":362.23596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.17784375,"end":359.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.37096875000003,"end":368.81721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.56909375000004,"end":365.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.81721875000005,"end":375.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.24659375000005,"end":377.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.14909375,"end":382.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.18659375000004,"end":386.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.68784375,"end":395.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.87659375000004,"end":393.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.80471875,"end":457.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.27159375,"end":459.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.80721875,"end":461.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.88284375,"end":461.96721875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.393,"end":22.268,"text":"你好我們請委員長委員長請陳委員長安委員長好簡單的請教一下關於這個華僑身分證明書的驗證程序是因為有聽到一些民眾在表示說可能有一些訊息需要這個正式的這種回應"},{"start":23.374,"end":50.133,"text":"那刚才几位委员应该有提到说为了维护这个议政的公平所以从今年9月开始我们就有修改规定就是侨民意难一定要拿到侨委会核发的议政用华侨身份证才可以出境但是改用的这个身份证明书的申请流程跟条件目前侨报是有点反应说讯息还是没有很一致很混乱那所以我们希望说政策可不可以"},{"start":50.833,"end":75.835,"text":"让同步让第一线的这个乔屋秘书掌握来去做澄清跟协助好的比方说现在我们听到是说如果没有乔如果是没有乔包没有这个乔居的家庭护照那第一次申请的这个议政用华侨身份证明书他需要提供乔居地的居留证明那是第121条规定"},{"start":76.676,"end":92.535,"text":"那如果說僑居地他居留上面的資訊不是用英文登載的話那可能是馬來文或者是泰文的話那為了要這個審查方便的話應該是要附中文的譯本然後而且要因經駐外管處來去驗證"},{"start":93.857,"end":111.525,"text":"住外管處是指我們中華民國派出去的住外管處可是僑委會的官網上面是說明說如果申請譯證用華僑生命證明書他的相關的居留證明書無需經住外管處驗證所以現在是要申請譯本還是"},{"start":112.445,"end":134.819,"text":"跟委員說明 事實上是這樣子要來申請議政用華僑身份證明他要帶中華民國有效護照然後第二個就是外國護照或永久居留權 居留證或者長期居留證那第三個呢是這個叫做移民署的這個入出境的資料"},{"start":136.881,"end":154.038,"text":"那這個可以回到國內再跟移民署來申請這個入出境資料就夠了是自出生開始的那前面這兩項呢事實上他如果是本人拿的正式文本來我們這邊辦理那其實不需要再去"},{"start":155.439,"end":159.562,"text":"駐外管處認證要驗證的原因是他要弄副本所謂的影印本的時候才需要去驗證如果正本來我們就不會讓他幫他這個做說還要去驗證的問題那有關於"},{"start":170.689,"end":174.53,"text":"居留證這個部分因為有些是用外文所寫的那如果是外文所寫的話當事人自己翻譯簽名就可以連同證本翻譯然後簽名連同證本讓我們查驗就可以了並不需要去駐外管處或者是他國的這個外交單位再進行認證這可能是有資訊解讀上的這個落差"},{"start":198.357,"end":203.86,"text":"那什麼時候是需要去認證呢是指說你如果要委託你的家屬朋友幫你代辦的時候那可是你自己的文件都還在手上啊所以你沒有證本可以提供我們查核這種狀況下你才需要在駐外管處先去驗證說你這個資料證本為真然後他會弄一個影本給你蓋好章所以這個部分呢"},{"start":223.152,"end":228.534,"text":"送回來的時候這個就需要翻譯那翻譯也是一樣就是正本查驗過以後的資料自行翻譯好簽名就可以了所以都沒有說太複雜的一個手續只不過我們可能資訊的提供上過去可能還不夠所以有些僑民可能就因此呢誤會了以為所有的翻譯跟所有的文件通通要先經過認證事實上是不需要的"},{"start":251.364,"end":265.673,"text":"對OK好謝謝委員長那第二個部分委員長你有提到關於橋屋秘書的一個人力配置因為拓展橋屋的服務據點大概可能是你目前很重視的一個施政目標"},{"start":266.613,"end":294.844,"text":"那我也知道說這個僑委會很難跟這個人事行政總署多要緣額所以僑委會現在是先縮編這個海外的駐外的人力就是因為為了要拓展所以我們要先做好先把人力做一些調配跟委員說明Arizona確實在增加僑胞啦有不管長期或短期的那我們現在都是還有洛杉磯的僑胞洛杉磯的僑教中心在兼想"},{"start":295.484,"end":300.566,"text":"那事實上我們沒有要縮編今年是因為有一些調動的因素所以暫時從三人變兩人但是我們明年又會把它補時為三人因為他要服務的區域範圍確實很廣那假以時日如果外交部有機會他要再拓展到亞利桑那州的時候我們會因應配合這樣的需求再來把僑務秘書做任何的配置來達到服務的目標"},{"start":323.453,"end":348.107,"text":"因為你剛說是由洛杉磯先去補這個空缺的人力是現在都是靠洛杉磯的喬教中心以及洛杉磯的這個辦事處在支援因為我看差不多也一年了我怕說這樣子的空窗期會不會原本減少人力的這個部分因為三個變兩個嘛他的業務會不會是今年的七月底才開始變兩個的所以只有這五個月而已所以不是一年"},{"start":348.967,"end":376.682,"text":"沒有一年沒有一年應該不會到一年嗎不會不會我們會盡快把他補食他減少的這個人力他可能要負擔會我知道我們洛杉磯的僑胞也會擔心因為好像現在只有兩個可是因為你知道我們現在因為我們有一位同仁要回來結婚所以我們就不得不讓他提早這個離開那我們就盡快的把這個人力補足因為我看這個鳳凰城因為我們明年一月都會把他補食"},{"start":378.786,"end":384.17,"text":"這個台橋社群應該是日益壯大嘛是的在美國的台橋人數還是有在成長中那接下來他們的語言適應然後還有這個學籍的這個轉接的這個問題那可能到時候我們的留學生現在在美國有很好的一些新的發展趨勢是因為我們的很多台灣企業要跨國投資所以他們需要很多好的人才"},{"start":407.324,"end":409.606,"text":"那也因為這樣我們現在也拜託我們在當地的一些僑社跟台商能夠協助我們去跨國投資的這個廠商做一個整體性的人才媒合的動作所以這個徵才的動作事實上上個月已經辦過第一次在洛杉磯的"},{"start":425.701,"end":447.736,"text":"不治厄安基应该说是在厄湾南加州厄湾那接下来也可能会在东岸也会举办然后这个在德州也会举办我们就因着有不同州的这一些发展趋势我们都会尽可能来协助让留学生或者当地的这个ABC我们讲的所谓第二代第三代"},{"start":448.977,"end":452.44,"text":"這個已經是Taiwanese American也有多一點機會進到我們這些新的這個企業系統大家來服務這我們會來媒合好 謝謝委員長謝謝 謝謝陳委員 子維勳 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165264","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165264","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe36577fa89082d72f0fc3112febeb0f1b01bffb99621b7826e69e402d4bcb505e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"10:35:19 - 10:46:43","影片長度":"00:11:24","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢。（11月12日及13日二天一次會））","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:35:19+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:46:43+08:00","duration":684,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":2.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.41034375,"end":3.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.7428437500000005,"end":8.552843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.96221875,"end":59.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.31721875,"end":59.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.12284375,"end":76.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.48721875000001,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.45846875000001,"end":100.30221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.32659375,"end":114.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.13534375,"end":122.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.57721875000001,"end":130.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.60971875,"end":155.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.75346875,"end":166.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.95846875,"end":169.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.47284375,"end":173.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.21471875,"end":179.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.37846875000002,"end":200.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.96159375000002,"end":215.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.47409375,"end":267.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.54534375,"end":218.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.65159375,"end":300.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.50971875,"end":285.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.05159375,"end":315.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.83846875,"end":314.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.74971875,"end":317.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.67784375,"end":340.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.97346875,"end":341.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.42909375000005,"end":341.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.71596875,"end":376.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.20909375,"end":345.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.55471875,"end":349.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.74346875000003,"end":355.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.78846875000005,"end":364.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.15346875,"end":419.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.20096875,"end":397.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.26784375000005,"end":401.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.10534375000003,"end":415.18971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.25659375000004,"end":422.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.06659375000004,"end":420.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.88471875000005,"end":422.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.90159375,"end":434.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.66346875000005,"end":441.73409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.73409375000006,"end":445.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.14284375000005,"end":494.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.92409375000005,"end":500.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.71221875000003,"end":508.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.82909375,"end":517.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.65471875,"end":517.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.67159375,"end":517.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.8234687500001,"end":517.8740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.8740937499999,"end":562.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.94721875,"end":614.7365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.4465937500001,"end":609.4209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.07846875,"end":622.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.13221875,"end":627.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.64221875,"end":627.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.5109687500001,"end":682.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.9978437500001,"end":644.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.71909375,"end":645.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.7609687500001,"end":647.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.8447187500001,"end":652.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.8528437500001,"end":657.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.51846875,"end":660.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.5984687499999,"end":662.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.88909375,"end":665.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.7790937500001,"end":667.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.0190937500001,"end":671.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.91221875,"end":679.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.8740937500002,"end":684.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.45159375,"end":683.97471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.709,"end":2.97,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請委員長委員長請好 委員長早安今天我們就僑委會的業務報告的部分有幾個問題請教第一個就是僑委會為了佩服政府的投資人才政策在112年到115年推動了擴大培育以及留用僑生這個中長期"},{"start":29.198,"end":32.181,"text":"中長城的這個計劃案當然我們是鼓勵海外僑生來台升學那也會依產業的需求調整課程設計發展具有產業合作特色的這些僑生專班我們看到今天的報告內容因為我們也很清楚的知道其實我們有很多國內的產業尤其像一些餐飲業服務業"},{"start":51.417,"end":66.988,"text":"其實大概也透過這樣子的一個像這樣的一個學生或者就學的這些對 就會用到這樣子的一個人力可是我們看到今天的報告裡面我們從這個圖表上面看到我們從103年其實就已經開始在推辦這樣子的一個"},{"start":77.755,"end":100.43,"text":"產系專班的這樣子的一個高中學生就讀那103年的時候其實我們承辦的學校只有兩所那我們在不斷增加的情況之下到113年已經高達27所承辦學校它核定的人數從最早的350個人一直到現在今年已經113年到7558人可是我們看到就是說從112年"},{"start":106.434,"end":117.46,"text":"到113年這最後兩年的這個為什麼會有這麼大的變化就是就讀期間就離校中斷學習他從去112年是182人離校那113年已經高達472人這已經是倍數的一個成長那大概是什麼樣的原因"},{"start":132.527,"end":153.079,"text":"確實我們在112年的時候有發現一些問題所以本來111年更多比例也更高之前都蠻高的後來我們有發現一些狀況就開始來協助學生不過有三個大的方向第一個就是說他可能語言能力還不足所以他的學習低落因此他的適應力也不夠因此他就"},{"start":155.82,"end":159.644,"text":"錯則回去第二個常常是因為家裡有發生事情那這些來讀書的孩子通常是比較弱勢的家庭所以他家裡一旦發生事情的時候他就會選擇說他先離開那第三個是近期我們有發現也有一些學生開始被一些不法集團詐騙那所以因為這樣子"},{"start":176.282,"end":179.125,"text":"他們就會背負上一些刑事的責任就提前離開所以我們發現了這幾個大項目以後我們就開始逐年的從去年開始我們就積極地開始做這些提醒跟預防的措施請學校一定要在新生訓練的時候就幫助學生然後也逐年提高他們的華語能力那麼今年的應該說去年的472人的這個數字"},{"start":202.726,"end":205.168,"text":"是比前一年112年高但是還是比前幾年相對來講算低啦那我會請我們處長來特別加強了解這些學生離開的原因委員長因為你剛剛有講到三個原因嘛那如果是家庭因素那當然我們沒有辦法"},{"start":221.923,"end":224.847,"text":"另外兩個我想其實也講到了重點就比如說像語文能力我們現在是他只要會講我們就認定認定他是喬生欸甚至不像以前這麼嚴格那我們現在我們比如說我們要出國的時候你包括你都必須要通過托普啊雅思啊這樣子的一些"},{"start":242.606,"end":247.187,"text":"測驗以後其實你才有辦法出去學習念書等等那現在我們入學達到的標準大概只有A1的程度那畢業以後他只要達到A2的程度其實我們現在其實常常在外面也會碰到比如說你這樣去餐廳吃飯的時候可能就是有一些產學合作的一個學生他們來的時候你甚至跟他說我要多一份碗筷他聽不懂"},{"start":267.671,"end":270.533,"text":"他還必須再跑回去再找人來協助所以我想其實這樣子的語文程度你在這樣子的一個服務業或餐飲業或者其他的產業別都已經面臨到這樣的生活的一個可能會"},{"start":283.34,"end":286.742,"text":"在漢德的情況之下那就更不用說學習了所以這是一個很大的問題那我們現在又編列更多的預算所以我想他沒有達到這樣的程度那在學的學生有沒有語文加強的做法"},{"start":300.129,"end":308.075,"text":"有 委員你這個問題真的是很關鍵而且也是直接到位所以我們也是意識到說如何讓學生在來台灣以前以前我們訂了這個所謂240小時或者只是A1程度其實不夠"},{"start":315.8,"end":318.542,"text":"我們現在簡單的做法有兩項第一項就是在海外的時候加開一些華語研習營讓他們強化密集學習第二個是我們在國內的部分我們現在第一學期進來的時候呢前兩個月前一個學期他必須要先學到一個程度經過我們的測驗測驗有通過我才讓他去廠家做實習如果他沒有通過他就繼續在學校讀書"},{"start":339.235,"end":341.258,"text":"所以這兩年已經開始跟教育部這個部分我們希望看到相對的成果因為在這裡只是用口頭說我想沒有辦法證明什麼那既然已經做了我們就是在校期間因為你只有來跟畢業嘛"},{"start":354.875,"end":375.374,"text":"一個A1一個A2嘛所以在這中間的過程當中要怎麼樣去強化我覺得這個可能把它具體的一個成效還有做法提供書面好不好第二個就是你剛剛也提到其實被不法集團利用我覺得這是非常嚴重的問題因為他們來的時候其實大概都是國中畢業而已所以其實像這樣子的一個"},{"start":377.256,"end":388.404,"text":"人力的一個來源被濫用或者被不法集團利用我想這不是只有叫學校去做宣導這個也嚴重影響到我們的治安或者我們其他可能會牽涉到的一個形式的一個案件所以我想具體的做法也把它提出來好不好我覺得不是只有請學校去宣導而已然後在什麼新生訓練做什麼樣的一個"},{"start":405.435,"end":432.396,"text":"這樣的一個強化我覺得都不足那因為很明顯的看到這將近300人他離校他發生的原因還是要把他具體化怎麼樣去做改善好的那這兩個部分再請我們會盡快把資料彙整起來送委員辦公室另外就是我們看到因為在最我們在僑民異男身份的認定機制上面其實我們有做了調整對不對"},{"start":434.987,"end":450.648,"text":"我們因應這個議政司的相關行政命令的修正我們在執行面上協助他們對內政部他是為了預防假僑民徵逃兵這個部分我們當然尊重國家的政策因為如果說要做逃兵的這樣子的一個"},{"start":452.43,"end":460.496,"text":"做為我想這個大家都不能接受可是我們要看到的是你這個9月才修正的規劃我國國籍者歸國僑民服役辦法9月才修正然後9月8號就開始執行他的目的是什麼為什麼要急著在9月8號因為我們通常有很多政策在推動的時候通常會訂到某月的1號"},{"start":476.007,"end":483.435,"text":"因為你在公告或者修正的情況之下他甚至沒有任何的一個緩衝就是一些不達的時間什麼原因這個部分因為僑委會有參與因為我們看到僑委會是在最快的我們看到"},{"start":495.207,"end":506.579,"text":"9月20號僑委會才公布的那你9月8號就開始執行外交部駐外館最早的大概也是9月13號所以就委員長你知道的為什麼是9月8號我的理解內政部他們草案開始做這個諮詢的時候已經是7月份就開始了然後"},{"start":517.93,"end":531.839,"text":"委員長因為我說的是你9月才修正因為我們看到的就是公告的這些日期他太倉促你今天一個政策可以這麼草率然後就把它推出來主席不好意思我借一下時間現在他衍生什麼樣的問題剛剛我們說我們尊重整個國家的政策我們不希望有造假的一個狀況可是這個部分已經造成許多逸臨起從19歲到36歲華僑的不便"},{"start":544.787,"end":556.538,"text":"因為你在申請文件的時候比如說我是國外的華僑我回來我可能在工作或在念書我回來可能一個禮拜或十天這樣的時間可是你為了要辦這些你必須僑委會跟移民署都必須要臨會辦理"},{"start":563.004,"end":566.246,"text":"移民署各縣市還有喔然後敲回會你只有在台北那我今天如果只回來七天我要回去的時候然後議政司是可以在線上審查不過他最短也需要兩個工作天你這些都很順利的情況之下經過這三個單位最少需要四天今天我如果回來要度假或者"},{"start":583.275,"end":586.476,"text":"回來探望家人 回來工作或者有什麼樣的銜接我根本沒有辦法去預測我什麼時候可以把它辦好所以就這個部分 因為時間的關係就這幾個點我們希望僑委會去把它包括跟內政部因為畢竟僑胞是你們的一個權責所以怎麼樣讓大家不要說到時候我想要趕回去工作我要回去念書"},{"start":610.366,"end":615.49,"text":"結果我時間卡在這裡出不去那就很大的問題委員不會產生這個問題是因為內政部的這個修正當中他有寬限四個月也就是說如果你緊急回來兩天三天我們要的不是你的寬限今天他可以回頭再辦這個程序"},{"start":627.598,"end":631.341,"text":"我今天回國如果只有一個禮拜或只有十天我回來敢辦任何重要的事情的話我沒有辦法在時間內回去因為你光是這些就站了四天然後如果中間還卡到假期的話你根本回來都沒有辦法辦事所以這個部分要如何去精進至少你讓大家知道說我應該要用多少時間可以去辦這些事情因為你這樣子等於我把相關資料匯整好給你好不好"},{"start":656.921,"end":662.126,"text":"這個接下來如果有什麼樣比較精進的做法提供相關的資料因為有很多僑胞其實是在做陳情反應因為這樣大家以後都不要拿中國護照你不是要爭取向心力嗎我們的僑委會的功能就是這樣結果你讓大家以後我乾脆就不要拿中華民國護照進來就好了所以這個部分我們要怎麼做改善提供比較具體的我們會加強這方面的相關作為給委員參考謝謝委員執行"}]}},{"id":"165263","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165263","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe37208c2d0842e232157c737e12387eef81bffb99621b7826e9958b8a00feea6e15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"10:33:42 - 10:45:37","影片長度":"00:11:55","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:33:42+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:45:37+08:00","duration":715,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.6040937500000005,"end":8.215343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.552843750000001,"end":9.582218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.78471875,"end":10.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.94846875,"end":15.539093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.539093750000003,"end":87.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.54471875,"end":90.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.88596875,"end":91.40909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.51034375,"end":96.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.39971875,"end":102.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.23846875000001,"end":105.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.92159375,"end":106.61346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.84971875000001,"end":111.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.91221875000001,"end":112.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.99221875,"end":114.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.42221875000001,"end":116.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.63721875,"end":121.41284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.81784375000001,"end":122.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.64034375000001,"end":124.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.42909375,"end":125.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.59346875000001,"end":127.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.93909375,"end":129.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.00659375,"end":129.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.39034375,"end":131.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.84596875,"end":133.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.81596875,"end":135.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.48659375,"end":135.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.79034375,"end":146.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.11346875,"end":152.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.12096875,"end":204.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.87659375,"end":211.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.84596875000003,"end":216.18284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.41909375,"end":217.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.37659375,"end":220.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.67159375000003,"end":231.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.72471875000002,"end":234.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.25159375,"end":239.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.02721875,"end":242.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.40659375,"end":244.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.76909375000002,"end":246.06846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.99659375000002,"end":250.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.46846875000003,"end":252.78471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.35846875000001,"end":254.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.08409375000002,"end":256.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.96971875,"end":257.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.04534375000003,"end":281.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.25284375,"end":284.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.42534375,"end":298.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.65096875,"end":322.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.63909375000003,"end":321.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.69784375,"end":323.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.33471875000004,"end":333.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.88596875,"end":348.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.37721875,"end":351.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.17846875000004,"end":362.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.23159375,"end":373.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.30596875000003,"end":376.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.90034375000005,"end":379.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.33909375,"end":378.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.07721875000004,"end":382.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.50284375,"end":382.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.62096875000003,"end":384.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.19034375,"end":388.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.20659375,"end":391.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.99534375,"end":390.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.22721875,"end":391.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.51409375000003,"end":401.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.57596875,"end":402.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.82034375,"end":410.85284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.30846875000003,"end":423.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.96471875000003,"end":428.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.97659375,"end":429.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.21284375000005,"end":429.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.65159375,"end":429.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.15784375000004,"end":435.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.61284375,"end":437.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.39721875000004,"end":438.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.03846875000005,"end":440.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.07221875000005,"end":438.42659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.28721875,"end":442.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.29534375000003,"end":456.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.65159375,"end":466.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.28284375000004,"end":467.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.29971875,"end":469.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.52721875000003,"end":476.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.92721875,"end":476.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.80034375,"end":477.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.67784375,"end":477.98159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.16721875,"end":480.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.45784375000005,"end":482.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.18346875000003,"end":482.20034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.25096875,"end":483.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.68534375,"end":488.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.70159375000003,"end":489.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.49034375,"end":489.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.03034375000004,"end":491.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.88659375000003,"end":495.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.21096875,"end":497.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.53971875,"end":500.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.22284375000004,"end":504.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.40784375000004,"end":504.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.62721875000005,"end":527.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.6953437500001,"end":532.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.58096875,"end":540.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.7609687500001,"end":546.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.6628437500001,"end":547.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.29534375,"end":549.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.5990937500001,"end":551.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.84346875,"end":557.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.97846875,"end":552.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.82221875,"end":555.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.98596875,"end":565.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.56284375,"end":572.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.8190937500001,"end":581.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.8528437500001,"end":573.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.8303437500001,"end":623.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.44596875,"end":584.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.4440937500001,"end":624.1359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.7265937500001,"end":644.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.77409375,"end":670.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.5715937500001,"end":675.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.0603437500001,"end":676.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.3259687500001,"end":678.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.51971875,"end":685.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.15596875,"end":712.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.28846875,"end":701.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.41034375,"end":705.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.71284375,"end":713.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.0165937500001,"end":713.0672187499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.656,"end":9.181,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我請我們的法務部徐次長"},{"start":14.997,"end":33.585,"text":"委員長市長早今天我們當然是做我們的邵氏法的一個審查詢答但是呢最近喔讓國人非常這個憤慨的而且也覺得不可思議的就是呢我們的這個詐騙其實已經登上國際這個整個是國際的這個詐騙集團太子集團之囂張那事實上呢在我們司法法治委員會我四月份"},{"start":44.51,"end":55.837,"text":"就引用了聯合國的報告來示警台灣是詐騙洗錢中心當時聯合國就直接點名台灣了那當時呢我是質詢我們的部長"},{"start":59.819,"end":84.612,"text":"結果部長對這個報告渾然不知一問三 三不知所以我就覺得非常非常離譜那你以為這是最離譜的嗎沒有 還有更離譜的事情就是事後呢 竟然我們的調查局長在立法院表示 陳百里在立法院表示說相關報告內容立場偏頗對內容存疑"},{"start":88.494,"end":113.968,"text":"還質疑人家聯合國的報告那麼從4月開始到現在經過了半年以上然後果然台灣真的是國際詐騙的洗錢中心然後這個太子集團呢那麼在台灣洗錢他用什麼方式洗錢第一個他買豪宅對不對市長知道他怎麼洗錢嗎"},{"start":115.441,"end":118.926,"text":"我知道他是用工合公司的名義去購買購買這些不動產來不動產還有呢"},{"start":135.87,"end":145.453,"text":"我覺得這應該是法務部身為打詐的最主要的主管機關之一對這件事情不可能置身於世 世外"},{"start":147.373,"end":175.021,"text":"這個太子集團呢 他用空殼公司而且是八家空殼公司在台灣去買11戶的和平大院這就是周杰倫住的地方另外呢 買了29部的豪車用這樣的方式來做洗錢這跟我們過去 比如打砸洗錢譬如說我們擔心他用這個虛擬貨幣不大一樣 他直接是買豪宅豪車來做洗錢"},{"start":176.121,"end":188.453,"text":"而且他早在2017年就來台灣布局了那自己也來台灣就有10次之多所以我要講的4月份聯合國的有關於詐騙的報告說台灣成為詐騙洗錢中心並不是空穴來風"},{"start":198.863,"end":217.335,"text":"但是呢 包含我們法務部調查局都把這個報告不當回事啊不當回事 部長不知道當時我在詢問的時候已經這個報告出來一陣子了部長不曉得然後呢 調查局長竟然說對人家的報告存疑好 那現在"},{"start":218.476,"end":245.393,"text":"市長 我想請問一下根據媒體今天的報導說我們一直到前天我們的高檢署才召開我們整個的跨單位 跨部會的會議來特別針對太子集團的洗錢案在台灣的洗錢案來做怎麼樣的防度跟追究檢討"},{"start":247.074,"end":257.8,"text":"次長你個人身為次長你會覺得我們是不是不是慢半拍我們是慢一整個大拍是不是太慢了"},{"start":259.659,"end":280.005,"text":"我想不管時間點在哪裡我們發現有一些我們沒有發現的犯罪我們當然要檢討而且這個是跨部會有很多很多的地方是需要我們努力所以禮拜一所召集的這個會議的確是我們追緝防止詐騙的一個我們查緝的平台"},{"start":281.366,"end":297.879,"text":"高檢署才會召集做這樣的一個緊急會議那在會議中也做成了五項的結論這些結論都有助於以後我們在國際的洗錢跟詐騙的金流的流竄是有一定的嚇阻作用"},{"start":298.72,"end":323.602,"text":"我們這個結論請問一下我們有沒有做檢討剛才我們講的幾個第一個空殼公司用空殼公司在短短時間裡面買了這麼多戶的豪宅或者去買豪車這個打擊房市洗錢我們不是從今天才開始嘛對不對我們不會是從今天才開始那這個部分"},{"start":324.483,"end":351.173,"text":"有沒有去追究責任 當然你們現在看起來有檢察官說說這個頭號戰犯就是經濟部頭號戰犯就是經濟部 經濟部針對這些公司商業登記啊 毫無管制然後登記這些空殼公司然後也不知道他做什麼業務就是去買豪宅 去買豪車所以市長檢察官的質疑有沒有道理"},{"start":352.336,"end":374.35,"text":"包委員我們還是期待就是說能夠強化公司登記的審查的密度而且不是只有登記而已他應該跟稅務機關要連結要加強稅務機關的監理還有金融機構的驗證跟異常交易的通報然後強化法人實質受益人的透明度這些是要所以你這樣一講下來不是只有經濟部"},{"start":377.873,"end":399.834,"text":"經濟部 財政部 國稅局 金管會你這樣一講下來對不對那一天召集的會議這些主管機關的人代表都有在場他們都承認自己有輸肉會議是共識不是承認我想委員得知道那我們就是要把這些漏洞能夠把它抓出來我們在監理"},{"start":400.614,"end":429.494,"text":"好 那次長我請問一下為了這樣子要洗脫我們這樣子的是一個詐騙亡國洗錢亡國的這樣子的汙名我們會不會做全面性的對 讓經濟部做全面性的這種空殼公司 比如說他投資 不管他投資上市 未上市股票 菜券豪車 豪宅等等做一些全面性的清查 需不需要"},{"start":430.474,"end":440.397,"text":"這個不是我們法務部可以做這樣的一個宣示我當然知道 你們會不會建議我們一定會做這樣的建議會做這樣的建議 對所以應該做一個清查對於台灣這些空殼公司當然不是所有空殼公司大概那個什麼 他們要跑斷腿就是你要設定一個他購買的一定金額以上的資產"},{"start":457.201,"end":465.766,"text":"比如說你設定他這個空額公司但是呢他卻買了上億元以上的這個不管是動產或者不動產然後就做全面性的清查應該是要設定一定的條件然後呢要勾結我剛才已經特別有提到就是勾結稅務單位金融機構不過這種他可能也不貸款"},{"start":482.279,"end":497.288,"text":"他不但他有交易不管他用什麼方式他就算是虛擬貨幣他也是跟金融機構所以你們會有這樣的建議那多少金額以上呢這個要尊重主管機關的所以一定要做一次全面的大清查"},{"start":498.008,"end":503.552,"text":"我只是建議我們不能說在這裡我了解我了解但是現在已經出現這樣的問題了嘛所以因為我們講說我們有個打詐國家隊但是打詐國家隊到底誰負責呢沒有人知道到時候每次出事了以前那個打詐檢察官就很生氣啊那時候頭號戰犯就是金管會那時候就是主要是講金管會因為金管會還沒有還有什麼速發部等等的對不對"},{"start":527.788,"end":547.547,"text":"那我是覺得啦那你們也要提出建議啊因為你們才是主管機關啊也因為大院的支持所以我們打詐釋法就很順利的通過那這個就已經讓我們跨部會現在的合作是很密切的經濟部說經濟部頭號失職不過看起來次長說也不只經濟部啦那另外內政部有沒有失職"},{"start":549.669,"end":571.927,"text":"因為內政部這個層次啊他可以來好幾次他用不同的護照來那麼多次然後我們也渾然不覺我們整個團隊都要檢討但是談不上有法務部來說誰失職啊但是有努力的空間沒有看起來啦檢調很生氣啦覺得自己打仗打到最後就一堆一堆的漏洞出來"},{"start":572.884,"end":577.205,"text":"是不是 我們要努力我們也會在偵查的實務上發現的問題會提供給行政機關作為他們一個監管的一個參考好 這邊我就是具體建議你們必須要做一個大清查因為當聯合國指名台灣的時候我們要有一些回應然後呢 你知道像南韓啊南韓媒體啊現在或者是他們的網友啊都開始在那邊笑台灣笑台灣說是詐騙之島啦"},{"start":601.152,"end":606.738,"text":"然後我們的行政院還發文我們行政院還有新聞稿說聲表遺憾因為這個的發文就說台灣一年以語音加簡訊詐騙的金額用人均計算是南韓的3倍 日本的20倍"},{"start":623.756,"end":642.681,"text":"這是南韓媒體的報導然後呢 我們行政院說沒有 這個是斷章取義結果呢 有去讓人家更正嗎也沒有讓人家去更正啊當然我知道這不是你的職責但是這很丟臉啦我們已經丟臉丟到國際上去了"},{"start":645.461,"end":670.435,"text":"韓國的報導朝鮮日報是韓國的大報吧朝鮮日報說我們詐騙損失的金額是南韓的3倍日本的20倍行政院只會大內宣自己發一個新聞稿說沒有這個數據不正確我也沒有看到他要求朝鮮日報更正朝鮮日報的報導照樣繼續在網站上人家也沒有把它下架也沒有撤下來"},{"start":671.676,"end":693.108,"text":"行政院這種的回應根本是自嗨而已啊你也不敢去叫人家朝鮮日報你把這個文章下架 不對我們台灣沒有那麼離譜所以我覺得最近這一連串的事件讓國人對於我們打詐信心全失"},{"start":694.349,"end":708.804,"text":"所以我也很肯定剛才市長願意就是就很務實的部分該檢討就要去檢討然後我們該去防堵就去防堵好不好因為我覺得我們不要我們一定要洗脫台灣這種詐騙之島詐騙天堂的這種惡名好不好是好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165260","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165260","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3d931a06e3a7fac4bb62a46119727b9b91bffb99621b7826e9aa7beedfef2e22d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"10:27:39 - 10:38:39","影片長度":"00:11:00","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:27:39+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:38:39+08:00","duration":660,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.35159375000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.654093750000001,"end":9.632843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.349718750000001,"end":15.977843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.387218750000002,"end":16.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.01471875,"end":29.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.844718750000002,"end":31.418468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.04284375,"end":32.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.70909375,"end":35.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.53596875,"end":36.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.822843750000004,"end":36.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.46409375,"end":37.088468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.62846875,"end":40.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.03721875,"end":42.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.298468750000005,"end":49.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.01471875,"end":51.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.617843750000006,"end":52.562843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.51221875,"end":53.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.799093750000004,"end":55.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.32596875,"end":59.211593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.633468750000006,"end":60.190343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.595343750000005,"end":61.320968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.759718750000005,"end":69.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.75846875,"end":73.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.51784375,"end":72.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.90971875000001,"end":75.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.10346875,"end":78.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.70659375000001,"end":80.65971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.16596875,"end":88.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.10221875,"end":84.27096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.00471875000001,"end":106.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.24909375,"end":91.02096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.44909375,"end":111.84471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.26659375000001,"end":117.39659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.90721875000001,"end":118.17284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.62846875000001,"end":119.06721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.70846875000001,"end":121.32846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.13846875,"end":128.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.69534375,"end":124.73721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.70284375,"end":132.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.71096875,"end":151.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.18846875,"end":154.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.47096875,"end":169.67534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.96971875,"end":176.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.15909375,"end":185.72346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.99346875,"end":189.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.84096875,"end":192.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.13159375,"end":194.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.71784375000001,"end":201.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.82659375,"end":201.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.68284375000002,"end":206.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.00284375,"end":208.45409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.45409375000003,"end":209.71971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.53846875000002,"end":209.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.90534375000001,"end":231.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.31034375000002,"end":210.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.36096875,"end":210.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.82596875000002,"end":234.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.78346875000003,"end":237.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.02346875,"end":238.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.28909375,"end":238.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.33971875,"end":246.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.30471875,"end":250.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.10159375,"end":271.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.23596875,"end":255.29909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.78596875,"end":272.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.76471875000004,"end":276.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.40971875,"end":276.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.98346875000004,"end":277.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.00034375,"end":279.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.81846875,"end":281.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.35846875000004,"end":288.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.71659375,"end":284.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.66096875,"end":288.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.72846875,"end":288.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.76221875000005,"end":288.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.88034375,"end":290.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.02784375000005,"end":290.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.51721875000004,"end":296.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.47909375,"end":292.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.47846875000005,"end":299.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.66784375000003,"end":309.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.91659375,"end":300.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.24971875,"end":302.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.99096875000004,"end":318.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.38596875,"end":331.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.06784375,"end":331.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.25346875,"end":331.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.30409375000005,"end":331.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.59096875,"end":344.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.88846875,"end":350.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.53721875,"end":357.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.51534375,"end":358.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.33784375000005,"end":358.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.86096875000004,"end":358.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.96221875000003,"end":366.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.08034375,"end":359.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.97784375000003,"end":370.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.52159375,"end":371.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.84221875000003,"end":375.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.20034375,"end":387.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.84846875000005,"end":385.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.73409375,"end":388.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.37534375,"end":388.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.89846875,"end":395.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.55159375000005,"end":398.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.58471875000004,"end":398.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.93909375000004,"end":401.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.94721875000005,"end":403.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.28034375000004,"end":405.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.34721875,"end":410.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.64596875,"end":421.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":420.33659375,"end":431.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.67221875,"end":441.16034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.95909375,"end":434.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.75096875,"end":445.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.26534375000006,"end":452.70284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.70284375000006,"end":461.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.07409375000003,"end":453.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":461.62971875000005,"end":461.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.18659375000004,"end":469.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.32471875000005,"end":473.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.37471875000006,"end":476.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.19721875000005,"end":475.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.02409375,"end":483.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":479.82096875,"end":480.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.73596875000004,"end":492.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.19034375,"end":494.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.23659375000005,"end":498.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.48034375000003,"end":502.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.34471875,"end":512.9465937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.37409375000004,"end":504.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.01846875,"end":524.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.67221875,"end":514.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.0459687499999,"end":528.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.07971875,"end":525.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.09659375,"end":525.8897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.43784375,"end":533.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.5678437500001,"end":544.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.98846875,"end":550.7803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.25284375,"end":552.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":552.23159375,"end":556.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.3490937500001,"end":557.3447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.9228437500001,"end":563.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.98159375,"end":559.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.0190937500001,"end":564.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.9340937500001,"end":571.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.78971875,"end":584.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.75409375,"end":595.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.41596875,"end":587.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.9172187500001,"end":593.5078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.85784375,"end":595.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.3259687500001,"end":598.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.8953437499999,"end":598.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.8234687500001,"end":599.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.36346875,"end":599.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.3803437500001,"end":599.3972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.3972187500001,"end":603.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.33784375,"end":601.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.0759687500001,"end":603.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.7678437500001,"end":611.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.3953437499999,"end":615.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.0234687500001,"end":624.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.33846875,"end":632.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.3884687500001,"end":629.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.98721875,"end":631.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.7253437500001,"end":634.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.8347187500001,"end":634.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.8515937500001,"end":634.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.8684687500001,"end":635.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.45909375,"end":635.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.49284375,"end":635.5772187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.5772187499999,"end":635.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.1003437500001,"end":638.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.2053437500001,"end":639.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.4497187500001,"end":643.4578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.2678437500001,"end":646.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":647.9297187500001,"end":648.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.71846875,"end":651.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.6084687499999,"end":656.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.55721875,"end":655.7934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.66221875,"end":662.08784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.867,"end":13.571,"text":"主席好我等部長喝水 請部長"},{"start":23.238,"end":51.208,"text":"謝謝邱委員部長好我想請問一下你們今年有編預算九月說要去大陸結果有去嗎後來有去嗎應該是沒有吧重規有沒有去 沒有沒去啊那你們今年就沒去為什麼明年又編了呢又編了九月份要去啊其實這個每年編列這個預算並不是說每年就一定會有計劃會去明年是APEC"},{"start":51.793,"end":79.938,"text":"明天會去 對所以你們也覺得說過去不會危險嘛這正常交流不會造成這個威脅會不會會不會擔心啊我們希望這個中國政府不應該把這個他們會反對你去嗎不會吧正常的交流上面對啊 他們會嗎應該不會吧所以你們才敢去啊不然你敢去嗎這其實都是我們認為其實它是可以創造"},{"start":81.291,"end":99.768,"text":"台灣正常有序交流的一種做法所以當然我們這個希望中國應該我們總統講說今天是沈伯陽這樣國際交流的原則對啊 總統好像有講過說今天是沈伯陽 明年就是你所以我相信你是部長不會明知道有危險還讓同仁去嘛 對不對"},{"start":100.609,"end":127.918,"text":"表示說正常交流我們還是可以說開大門走大路的我們希望一個對等有序的交流中國政府應該要秉持一個相對比較開放的心胸讓一個所以他現在反對你去嗎現在應該還沒有這樣子的表達還沒嗎現在沒有這樣的表達但我們希望一個正常有序對等的交流"},{"start":128.82,"end":149.482,"text":"然後這個我講這個也沒別的意思就是說希望這個就是說本來也沒那麼嚴重不要用這種情緒這個勒索來嚇我們台灣人其實正常交流應該是沒有問題的那我們接下來一題就是說在你們的預算裡面勞動資訊業務這個部分主要就是電腦相關設備跟資安對吧"},{"start":153.937,"end":176.682,"text":"應該是那113年決算你們大概花了1000多萬那114年就是今年編列的1400萬元到了明年115年你們編列的這個預算大概8700多萬 暴增6.2倍的原因是什麼部長你都不知道"},{"start":179.355,"end":204.4,"text":"這邊跟委員補充一下就是我們原本在勞動業務的共通性的那些資訊原本我們是放在就業安定基金費裡面那因為後來重新檢討之後決定這些比較跟就業安定基金相關比較沒有直接關係的就往公務員所以你這些錢要做什麼一樣也是在維運整個勞動業務的共同資訊平台"},{"start":207.031,"end":230.738,"text":"那是什麼東西你可以講清楚一點嗎其實狀況是這樣就是因為過去其實相關的支出其實是用救安基金在支出可是我們從今年初從去年底開始檢討救安基金的使用以後我們就認為有些如果可以用公務預算支出的就盡量的移到公務預算支出所以我們去跟族種去爭取"},{"start":231.874,"end":253.83,"text":"一些其實應該 其他部會 每一年都有大概六七千七八千萬的這個預算要去換電腦比方說很多系統不要違法雇主的查詢因為在勞動這邊其實有很多相關的資訊系統必須去做維護更新甚至大家對於很多的揭露有更多的現在有更多的要求部長你們 你們這樣做我當然是贊成就是說你們不應該在救援救援機會這個基金裡面來動用這些錢那你把編列出來這八千多萬"},{"start":260.655,"end":286.573,"text":"那我覺得你每年在編列八千多萬元的這個部分呢應該是購置什麼防火牆啊 文書軟體啊資料庫軟體更新 這樣吧 是這樣嗎也不止也不止 還買什麼東西就是包括系統的所以你們有細項嗎你們有細項嗎還是整包 一包就是八千七百多萬不是不是不是不要像買福袋一樣 裡面什麼都有啊"},{"start":289.916,"end":308.013,"text":"這個治安的問題很嚴重治安沒有把它當作輔帶我是覺得當然啦 這個帳戶越清楚越好治安的工作要做的扎實不是靠像輔帶不要買了就一直撈就有那部長 我再問你這幾天你們召開這個不是 我問別的好了就你召開這個"},{"start":310.35,"end":318.423,"text":"勞動力政策的諮商小組會議同時決定要打開製造業跟一般營造業的移工限制確定要這樣做嗎"},{"start":321.528,"end":344.066,"text":"我們其實這次打開的主要是針對技術人力的上限就是我們把技術人力原本25%的上限然後把它打開我看到你的兩個都是移工的政策重大鬆綁不只是調整配額 直接會改變產業用工的結構除了這場會議之外 你們還做了哪些具體的評估"},{"start":345.649,"end":369.96,"text":"呃現在委員你在簡報上面其實這是針對營造業這是針對那時候7月的時候那時候應該是丹納斯颱風那在台南造成很大的這個很多的 你們是因為災後重建嗎當時營造業的部分是如果營造業業者下的移工投入到災後重建的話他如果需要增加名額的話不受這15000名的限制所以不受嗎那你現在你要打開放多少"},{"start":371.16,"end":386.505,"text":"這個其實要看是要看營造業或者是目的世界主管其實應該是說我看了你們今年的這個來統計結算到9月那大概是9000多人申請大概是有9000多個名額那你的上限是15000"},{"start":387.805,"end":410.428,"text":"一萬五嗎那你就還沒達到啊還沒達標那你的意思為什麼要去又要跳過這個機制跟我說明一萬五一萬五的名額是我們已經開放的對但是確實之前有那目前9680的對之前因為之前我們一直跟這個國土署在討論怎麼讓這個一萬五的名額能夠更有效的運用"},{"start":411.687,"end":431.135,"text":"那但是現在在討論的災後的投入的名額跟這一萬五的名額比較是兩件事情也就是說那我請問部長假如這個災後重建是不可能持續在做嗎不是永久都有嗎那如果災後之後就是他這個災後重建完成之後那這些一共怎麼辦"},{"start":432.814,"end":461.342,"text":"當然就會留下來但是這也是我們希望能夠給當初願意幫忙災後重建的營造廠的一個誘因因為其實在這個重建過程裡面需要很多的營造廠來協助因為你災後重建完成之後你們又把它留下來嘛那乾脆就不要用災後來當幌子嘛對不對委員這絕對不是幌子那你用因為如果沒有投入災後重建的業者的話就沒有辦法享有這個可能這個天花板的調整"},{"start":462.282,"end":480.33,"text":"所以他們我現在的重點是在說你現在讓他進來了進來之後你又讓他回到一般的勞工一般的製造業或者是其他地方去嘛對不對你會讓他留下來因為沒有那麼多災後重建啊跟委員說明他其實他如果做完災後重建以後這個營造廠他還是要有工程啊"},{"start":483.852,"end":496.168,"text":"所以他就可以繼續做那他如果這個工程他不是災後不是因為災後重建所以都可以做就對了那你幹嘛不直接開放就讓這些營造業能夠申請"},{"start":499.522,"end":524.374,"text":"跟委員說明目前其實我們已經開放1.5萬人那現在我們是鼓勵當初願意投入到災後重建這有公益性質的協助的工作的營造廠讓他們在名額上面有多一點的我覺得這個是多此一舉直接從那邊直接從那邊來管理這樣會不會比較好因為我擔心說你這個等於是你用這個災區重建當成長期鬆綁的一個藉口"},{"start":525.394,"end":550.535,"text":"那到時候你這個一萬五千人如果申請已經達標了那後來又利用這個然後一直無限上綱嗎那這個就沒完沒了啊委員這個在區的重建在這個在區重建的工作其實他需要的工程量跟他需要的勞動力量真的比較大所以我們用這個方式我是不反對你們去開放這個但是還是要做限制不要說這個臨時開放變成永久使用"},{"start":551.295,"end":571.529,"text":"我們會做一定的把控啦對啊我覺得你們辦法還是要定出來啦我們會做一定的把控但是這個打開的措施你這邊開一個口這邊又開一個到時候兩個都這個打開的措施比較是為了讓營造廠能夠願意投入到再去重建有多一點的誘因當初的利益是在這件事情上面的"},{"start":572.049,"end":594.517,"text":"最後一個啦你們說的政策是要幫本國有一個政策就是說幫本國勞工加薪結果是一個本國勞工加薪2000塊你們就可以多申請一個移工這樣是嗎你們的方法是這樣嗎要看哪個行業目前是在製造業部分是幫製造業嗎一幫一個本國相對低薪的勞工加薪的話他可以取得多一個就2000就可以了是不是對那為什麼是2000"},{"start":596.658,"end":621.333,"text":"第一個我們也評估過要不要其他很高的金額但是第一個我們認為這2000的我覺得很奇怪為什麼要2000塊如果高一點的話可能會讓願意去為本勞工加薪的企業的人數會在減少所以我們是主要那未來你們怎麼去督促怎麼去監督這些業者我們會確認在我們的系統裡面去確認有確實加到本勞的加薪以後"},{"start":622.133,"end":646.31,"text":"你才能夠我們才會給他名額的合法會不會他們表面上加了之後然後呢加班費啊津貼什麼獎金都壓下來的話呢如果我們去查核如果假加薪的狀況的話對這種變相的你們怎麼去查如果我們透過我們的系統去查核查到之後咧如果他有假加薪的狀況下我們就會取消他的名額有沒有法則我們就目前說就是用取消名額的方式就取消那這樣大家不會啪抓到再說嗎不是這樣嗎"},{"start":649.918,"end":662.016,"text":"會停止兩年申請我覺得這個政策要明確啦好不好讓大家能好做事好 謝謝部長好 謝謝修緯 謝謝部長那我們現在休息"}]}},{"id":"165262","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165262","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe369c8811cd74de4f6906ee7c1e9a76e5a1bffb99621b7826ebc5f279a864bc0545ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"10:31:03 - 10:43:06","影片長度":"00:12:03","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:31:03+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:43:06+08:00","duration":723,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.0853437500000003,"end":5.920343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.51096875,"end":7.287218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.965968750000002,"end":14.594093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.640343750000003,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.523468750000006,"end":68.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.45909375000001,"end":72.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.35721875,"end":81.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.75659375000001,"end":81.94221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.97596875,"end":86.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.24534375,"end":89.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.82721875,"end":91.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.47659375,"end":97.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.46721875,"end":97.75409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.75409375000001,"end":97.77096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.77096875000001,"end":103.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.84596875000001,"end":108.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.95909375000001,"end":111.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.16534375,"end":115.08471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.65034375,"end":134.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.47409375,"end":135.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.36846875,"end":136.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.22909375,"end":136.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.00534375,"end":147.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.56909375,"end":150.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.30284375000002,"end":150.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.84284375000001,"end":159.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.09471875,"end":160.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.66846875000002,"end":163.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.48659375,"end":162.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.34721875,"end":170.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.46409375000002,"end":172.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.01659375,"end":174.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.06721875000002,"end":173.08409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.25284375,"end":183.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.55221875,"end":175.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.18909375,"end":177.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.24284375000002,"end":189.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.84534375,"end":193.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.24971875,"end":193.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.97534375,"end":217.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.34721875000002,"end":218.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.03471875000002,"end":224.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.68784375,"end":226.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.74659375000002,"end":228.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.46784375000001,"end":229.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.37909375,"end":230.40846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.40846875000003,"end":235.45409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.66096875000002,"end":235.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.82534375,"end":239.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.26784375000003,"end":249.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.03971875000002,"end":241.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.02159375000002,"end":259.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.56846875,"end":260.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.31096875000003,"end":262.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.74534375,"end":261.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.06596875,"end":262.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.45409375,"end":265.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.45784375,"end":268.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.36471875,"end":271.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.44846875,"end":273.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.03471875,"end":281.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.59971875,"end":276.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.13471875,"end":284.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.30721875,"end":286.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.50471875,"end":300.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.31471875,"end":291.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.03471875,"end":300.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.78971875,"end":307.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.61159375,"end":317.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.94471875,"end":309.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.69971875000005,"end":310.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.31909375000004,"end":316.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.96034375,"end":319.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.50846875,"end":325.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.97221875,"end":322.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.54971875,"end":328.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.95471875000004,"end":327.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.50284375,"end":337.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.78409375,"end":337.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.80096875000004,"end":337.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.81784375,"end":337.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.96971875,"end":342.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.91409375,"end":348.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.47034375000004,"end":349.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.66409375,"end":358.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.13534375,"end":361.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.72971875,"end":365.02034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.24409375000005,"end":367.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.23096875000005,"end":369.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.08721875000003,"end":383.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.20846875,"end":376.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.54909375,"end":384.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.47284375000004,"end":385.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.48971875,"end":385.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.96221875000003,"end":403.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.02471875000003,"end":391.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.12596875,"end":391.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.11596875000004,"end":405.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.57096875,"end":405.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.58784375000005,"end":407.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.49471875,"end":412.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.27471875000003,"end":414.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.09284375000004,"end":414.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.58221875000004,"end":414.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.61596875000004,"end":419.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.89784375000005,"end":425.77034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.19221875000005,"end":430.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.05221875,"end":445.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.78971875,"end":437.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.25346875,"end":440.04659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.02471875000003,"end":447.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.64909375,"end":445.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.88096875,"end":447.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.30284375,"end":454.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.58534375000005,"end":449.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.98096875000005,"end":456.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.17471875,"end":468.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.81846875,"end":484.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.33909375,"end":488.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.04346875000005,"end":489.82784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.82784375000006,"end":490.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.51971875000004,"end":491.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.12284375,"end":494.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.04659375000006,"end":515.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.61471875,"end":504.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.54971875,"end":527.6784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.0834687500001,"end":532.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.67346875,"end":535.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.8290937500001,"end":544.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.1315937500001,"end":553.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.7390937499999,"end":544.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.80659375,"end":545.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.4172187500001,"end":560.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.39471875,"end":568.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.58784375,"end":570.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.60409375,"end":580.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.2947187500001,"end":584.2097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.1128437500001,"end":583.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.6359687500001,"end":592.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.1203437500001,"end":591.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.8372187500001,"end":594.6047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.9172187500001,"end":593.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.53721875,"end":595.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.4484687500001,"end":603.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.2322187500001,"end":622.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.5203437499999,"end":629.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.31659375,"end":635.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.3840937500001,"end":631.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.76284375,"end":636.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.06659375,"end":636.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":636.9778437500001,"end":638.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.9015937500001,"end":638.9184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.9184687500001,"end":644.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.7065937500001,"end":663.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.75409375,"end":677.8997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":677.96721875,"end":680.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.60409375,"end":683.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.97471875,"end":697.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.2553437500001,"end":708.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.4097187500001,"end":711.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":711.8859687500001,"end":712.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.81409375,"end":717.2690937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.169,"end":7.441,"text":"接下來我們請李坤臣召委質詢好 謝謝主席我們請彭主委有請彭主委主委好 這個"},{"start":16.003,"end":31.029,"text":"詐騙集團啦 這個太子集團他洗錢45億那民眾都很關心說那政府的打詐機關在哪裡啦那這個按照台北地檢署的資料來看的話這一次他們扣押了不動產18筆"},{"start":32.97,"end":60.27,"text":"然後銀行的帳戶有60個帳戶裡面還有2億多塊2億多元合計扣押的物價高達45億那表示說他洗錢至少也洗了45億剛剛我有聽到這個主委的答覆好說10月14號美國司法部的通知太子集團涉及洗錢10月15號就開始做精檢我的疑問就在這邊如果沒有美國司法部的通知的話我們不可能在10月15號做精檢是不是"},{"start":61.744,"end":91.062,"text":"那當然這個重大事件的時候呢我們當然會開始啟動我們現在的精檢都非常及時沒有啊 那是美國司法部通知我們我們才去做精檢的耶我想這個是一次它這個詐騙集團涉及全世界30個國家很多國家美國通知以後呢我再猜他們也採取跟我們類似的動作所以說換句話說如果美國沒有通知的話我們不可能在15號做精檢囉這是個假設性的問題是不是我們真的我們有沒有那至少在15號之前沒有做精檢嘛對不對"},{"start":92.483,"end":109.262,"text":"應該講我們過去都有做我們按照我們銀行的這些通報該通報我們都通報所以我跟你講就是說主委說有10家銀行他60個帳戶在10家銀行裡面嗎就是我們各自不同這麼多年他從107年開始進入到台灣到現在107年那現在是114年了"},{"start":112.222,"end":130.817,"text":"其實他在其他國家也類似於我不管其他國家我就是說這件事情凸顯了蠻多的問題那我是希望說就金管會的部分我們能夠改善的地方在哪裡因為如果今天不是說美國司法部有通知的話那我們不可能是15號去做經檢嘛那你說有60個帳戶在10家銀行裡面那我剛剛又聽說朱偉碩認為說大額的通報都沒有問題"},{"start":134.58,"end":150.361,"text":"都沒有問題嗎不是 應該這樣講我們現在按照我們現在洗錢的規定銀行該做的事比如他覺得異常就通報這件事情我們有請檢察局這是第一個對啊 所以這家10家銀行都沒有覺得有問題所以都沒有通報嘛是不是不是"},{"start":150.962,"end":172.136,"text":"都有通報 只是通報以後的結果因為綜合比對這個反洗錢這個是一個非常複雜不是只有金管會提供這個訊息對 我知道等於說它會集中到一個地方去做判斷我想這部分好 那我來釐清一些問題好了在打炸的分工任務裡面的話金管會是負責主炸嗎我們是在"},{"start":173.072,"end":197.492,"text":"主要是主詐 因為有很多嘛市詐 賭詐 主詐已經犯罪了以後 它的金流進來這邊以後呢我們把它辨識出來 把它做一些管控或是配合檢警調去鎖控 就是說負責這個張款的流項面就對了要把它組起來就對了就是如果我們在我們可以知道的情況之下進行這樣的阻止跟增加成本那我就問民眾他們所關心的或是所反映的一些問題啦"},{"start":198.473,"end":220.397,"text":"就是說這個詐騙集團騙了一些錢然後拿了30幾億現金去買11戶的豪宅然後銀行也不覺得奇怪建商也不覺得奇怪然後大家就質疑說那金管會的AML房子洗錢的能力有問題就是說他30幾億的現金進來豪宅市場買了11戶的豪宅48個車位 26台豪車60個銀行帳戶"},{"start":226.775,"end":248.933,"text":"沒有人覺得奇怪 主委你會不會覺得很奇怪這句話稍微停一下銀行確實覺得很奇怪他們在過去這麼多年來銀行覺得有奇怪對 它按照我們的規定陸續的通報了非常非常多次那這個就有問題啦如果銀行覺得有奇怪的話那為什麼一直都沒有發現回去做了解那一直要等到10月15號才去做經檢"},{"start":250.214,"end":271.615,"text":"跟我們報告因為他整個部分整個犯罪集團他本身他在銀行端銀行會根據他的規定覺得比如說我這是個大異常我就會通報通報以後呢有通報有通報我們都一個個去查你們通報之後勒對那就是我們下一關的要來處理你現在講的是我是講說15號之前的事情嗎對從107年開始108年就開始都有通報"},{"start":274.878,"end":285.748,"text":"都有通報接下來通報都沒有發現說哪裡有問題所以讓他們一直繼續洗錢下去嗎這是要由執法機關來判斷是不是要採取這個動作所以是哪個單位的問題"},{"start":289.54,"end":318.745,"text":"哪個單位的問題我們總是要了解問題嘛那如果說金管會這部分沒有問題的話你們說銀行有發現有納額的這個不尋常的交易那也通報了那通報之後咧包委員那個國家洗房的機制最主要有三個單位一個是金融機構他報情資給那個調查局之後那調查局他會做分析運用他會分送相關的資料給執法機關那執法機關再採取進一步相關的動作那就我們所以調查局然後接下來咧"},{"start":319.525,"end":336.915,"text":"他就會分送給相關的執法機關比方說像刑事檢查局或者是檢調單位等等所以你們這些情誌都給調查局我們跟這十家銀行了解從108年開始金融機構都有依照規定去做大額申報跟可以洗錢的申報"},{"start":337.856,"end":357.911,"text":"所以我在說108年之後發現說這些大筆交易的金額有問題就對了在他們的風險辨識裡面他們都有辨識出來然後都有依照他們應該要詢問的那有幾筆啊總共有幾筆啊我們目前掌握到的訊息是從108年之後金融機構有做了有52次的相關的申報的動作"},{"start":358.191,"end":384.718,"text":"然後你們把情資給調查局然後調查局沒有任何的動作嗎這個是整個國家洗房體系所以在哇 那我們國家整個這個洗房體制有問題耶我想應該不太可以這樣不是 我的意思是說藉由這個太子集團這件事情來凸顯說我們的問題在哪裡那後續要怎麼去改進啊如果說銀行有通報如果說銀行沒有通報那銀行的問題那銀行有通報那你們也把相關的情資也給這個洗房中心然後呢 接下來就沒有了"},{"start":385.538,"end":406.491,"text":"是這樣子嗎不是 剛剛那個同學講過了他是一個比如說我們這邊是第一個接觸點我們自己有一套覺得這個是跟平常不一樣我們就會通報通報以後假如他覺得需要他就會分分給其他具有查核的不是 那我覺得這樣問題很大就是說你們第一線已經有發現有問題了不是 就是其實"},{"start":407.592,"end":425.465,"text":"跟我講就觸發警報並不代表說一定有問題當然我知道那這後續咧如果今天不是說美國來通知我們要查的話那他們可能繼續再洗下去沒有就是說其實犯罪跟犯罪偵訪我不是專家但我也可以能想像一件事情就是說"},{"start":426.266,"end":454.097,"text":"今天來講不是有犯罪的預防機制就不會有犯罪但是每一次的犯罪成功都是給我們很好的機會所以我跟你講要解決問題一定要先確認問題的存在所以我現在要確認問題在哪裡是在金管會那還是說在其他的單位我覺得大家都要檢討這件事情只是說對啊 大家都要檢討這件事情我們第一步就像我們在內部講不是 這整個民眾對於政府的這個打詐的這個機制會產生一個很大的問題"},{"start":455.038,"end":456.266,"text":"因为这个金额太庞大了"},{"start":457.196,"end":484.407,"text":"他去買豪宅買車位然後有60個銀行帳戶然後錢這樣進進出出然後大家就覺得沒有問題還是說你們覺得已經有問題了然後呢通報上去了然後就沒有了其實委員其實我們就有倒推法的話是很容易感覺這怎麼會這麼做但是銀行每天他面對了這麼多的交易他只是覺得有異常他匯總過去我們後面的專業單位會按照各種情資來判斷我該不該採取行動我想說"},{"start":485.647,"end":505.744,"text":"這個犯罪集團他不斷的更新那我問主委好了那這次他的集團這個有學到什麼教訓嗎就金管會的部分我想第一個我們現在內部是講ABCA的話就是我現在的規定你們好好做B的話有沒有落實做C的話有沒有什麼方法可以來解決剛剛那個問題不是啊 那ABC大家都知道啊那個問題就發生了啊"},{"start":507.325,"end":526.101,"text":"對啊 所以說我們的意思是說這個部分牽涉到的其實我們就要跨部會所以我們跟高檢署就開始密切的去討論這件事應該怎麼處理我覺得這個問題很大因為你如果今天不是美國他要求我們去做調查我們也不會有15號的精檢那也不會有這個地檢署調查局接下來的後續的動作那表示說從107年到現在"},{"start":528.243,"end":551.572,"text":"七八年的時間我們沒有採取任何的動作但你們已經發現說已經有問題了那個所謂發現就是它觸發了我們洗錢的運氣對 那觸發之後你們把這些我們把這些訊息 資訊也報上去了然後結果呢 就沒有了啊這才是問題所在啊這是民眾會質疑的地方啊其實誠如很多外界講就是說一個問題的發生其實我們就是一個很好的機會來"},{"start":552.472,"end":570.404,"text":"沒有啦 因為這個問題太嚴重了你一個太子集團洗了四十五億然後政府整個打砸了機關就渾然不知也不是啦就是說我跟委員講說我們其實各自有各自在做這些內容那所以我就先至少我先問說金管會有沒有善盡到責任啊"},{"start":571.658,"end":597.302,"text":"我剛跟委員報告了就是我們在負責的是監控這些異常交易的通報的部分在我們的查核裡面我們發覺銀行都有做到都有做到所以金管會這部分阻詐沒有問題就對了再來其實剛剛也有委員講這問題不是那麼簡單所以我剛講ABC你有做的有沒有做確實ABC都沒有做這才是民眾在質疑政府的地方剛剛講委員講的時候大家不會去管說這個是屬於金管會的這個是屬於調查局的這是屬於誰的"},{"start":600.643,"end":628.646,"text":"这整个是对政府的一个打了一个大问号我们也没有这意思我只跟我一样你问我的话就是说我们现在就我们今晚会去了解银行的金流的时候我觉得第一个有没有做通报该做最基本的A你们都做到接下来你的EDD有没有做到确实这还要花时间再去了解我们要找出那个漏洞看看以后我们可以再通报可以再做什么样的一个提供给其他单位把标准把它弄得更聪明我的问题就在于说发生这么大的事情如果不是美国司法部通知的话我们不会有后续的动作"},{"start":629.72,"end":633.385,"text":"這個其實是個假設的問題不是啊 這是事實啊因為14號之前你們有去做經檢嗎就是說這個是事實啊 對不對"},{"start":639.219,"end":663.264,"text":"我想說這是一個我們整個的國家機器很大的部分我只能回答我這一部分所以這個就是整個國家機制人家打砸機制人家會懷疑有問題的地方就在這邊儘管會有回報了你說你有回報了那就回報上去之後DRH接下來我不知道怎麼樣我覺得這個可以繼續再追因為沒有那麼簡單但是利用這個"},{"start":664.995,"end":683.205,"text":"這次詐騙的這個洗錢的事件我認為我們有很多的洗房機制要做檢討不然你說那現在大家都知道啦你就是去買豪宅去買車位啊然後把這個錢把它洗白了洗乾淨了啊然後沒有任何的問題啊其實我們也是其實你看啊你看幾乎每一次的詐騙集團查到了都是"},{"start":684.125,"end":709.072,"text":"民宅 好宅 然後民車大概就這樣那你就知道說他們把這些錢就洗成這樣子了啊然後我們拿他一點沒有辦法然後每次新聞報出來就是說哇 這詐騙集團都是開民車然後住好宅這就是打我們的臉啊不過我想這個部分確實我剛才講像委員講說我們有防範的機制沒辦法確保但每一個東西我們都要虛心檢討把我們的制度把它做得更好希望不要有下一次吧這個問題很大再繼續再研究 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":712.873,"end":716.669,"text":"好 謝謝召委 謝謝主委接下來有請林委員失明諮詢"}]}},{"id":"165251","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165251","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe384927e4e999f4dde906ee7c1e9a76e5a1bffb99621b7826e0385acd6577be4b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"10:08:01 - 10:19:37","影片長度":"00:11:36","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:08:01+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:19:37+08:00","duration":696,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.337843750000001,"end":8.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.41346875,"end":10.324718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.598468750000002,"end":13.902218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.902218750000003,"end":13.919093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.42534375,"end":116.72159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.26159375,"end":124.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.80471875,"end":130.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.33971875,"end":134.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.57159375,"end":139.40159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.87409375000001,"end":146.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.33284375000002,"end":156.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.97721875000002,"end":211.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.27659375000002,"end":156.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.01471875000001,"end":158.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.25846875000002,"end":164.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.00596875000002,"end":188.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.74409375000002,"end":188.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.51596875,"end":191.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.36659375000002,"end":202.63221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.59284375000001,"end":224.99159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.21534375000002,"end":239.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.97846875000002,"end":228.38346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.84284375000001,"end":235.47096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.95159375000003,"end":256.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.90409375000002,"end":246.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.47221875000002,"end":264.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.64784375,"end":266.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.21721875000003,"end":268.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.03534375000004,"end":278.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.89471875000004,"end":289.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.63284375,"end":279.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.03221875,"end":299.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.43159375000005,"end":306.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.44409375000004,"end":299.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.21534375000005,"end":321.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.80346875000004,"end":356.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.36034375,"end":323.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.43784375,"end":341.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.92221875,"end":345.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.02659375,"end":352.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.43096875000003,"end":358.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.20284375,"end":436.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.34659375,"end":452.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.00659375000004,"end":454.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.96846875000006,"end":461.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.88346875,"end":458.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.30909375000005,"end":468.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.35846875000004,"end":476.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.51346875,"end":479.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.53409375,"end":500.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.99784375,"end":482.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.24221875,"end":486.94221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.43784375,"end":503.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.42471875,"end":516.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.0303437499999,"end":531.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.1884687500001,"end":533.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.2978437500001,"end":533.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.97284375,"end":536.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.61784375,"end":538.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.15346875,"end":578.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.12534375,"end":557.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.4172187500001,"end":581.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.5603437500001,"end":584.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.33221875,"end":593.3897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.29284375,"end":622.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.1953437500001,"end":626.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.94159375,"end":630.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.26159375,"end":640.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.42034375,"end":653.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.19471875,"end":656.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.0928437500002,"end":663.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.6909687500001,"end":664.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.02846875,"end":666.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.69471875,"end":680.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.93721875,"end":688.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.82659375,"end":694.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.15471875,"end":693.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.36971875,"end":694.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.42034375,"end":694.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.97721875,"end":695.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.55096875,"end":695.82096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.709,"end":10.132,"text":"謝謝我可不可以邀請主委好請碰主委你好"},{"start":14.494,"end":40.359,"text":"主委 早安古神巴菲特高齡已經95歲他在前一陣子感恩節的時候他寫了一封告別信給Berkshire Hathaway他自己的公司他要卸下執行長的職務他裡面特別透露一件事情我覺得非常有意思包括他提到美國監管會的機構過去從2008年有一個新資的揭露制度這個制度他說本來是好意卻是得其反"},{"start":41.099,"end":57.066,"text":"因為這個薪資的揭露制度我們本來是希望他們本來是希望說薪資更合理化不僅是CEO拿到合理的數字那包括也可以照顧中低的這個公司的員工但是最後在美國卻變成他認為在美國卻變成"},{"start":60.367,"end":74.626,"text":"各自CEO各自各個公司比來比去那當然我們台灣很多制度也學習美國從2018開始我們政府就已經實施一連串的薪資揭露制度這個制度我個人是支持的"},{"start":75.387,"end":98.177,"text":"那我們本來是希望說可以公佈全體薪資包括非主管局的平均薪資透過這些揭露的制度可以讓薪資更合理化那解決低薪跟肥貓的狀況那當時的報紙我還記得他當時特別提到說基層年薪差董監200倍好我們從2018實施到現在主委"},{"start":102.259,"end":116.026,"text":"你覺得這個薪資包括照顧所有的上市商會公司的員工薪資揭露之後但是真的有更合理化嗎也就是有跟著這些揭露制度薪資跟著上漲嗎"},{"start":118.081,"end":138.892,"text":"謝謝委員剛才提到巴菲特當然是大家全球矚目的人物他的任何的說話大家都會要非常的關注他也點出了美國在過去一直在對這個薪資的揭露的我指我們我們學習美國薪資揭露確實陳主委員來講在我今天這個工作之前這麼多年來我們一直比如說對"},{"start":139.932,"end":153.284,"text":"董監高屆主管薪水持續透明化那特別是比如說我們在對上市櫃公司有些比如虧損的公司特別要揭露但我們最近呢像去年我們大院也通過那個政交法14條希望為這個基層員工加薪"},{"start":157.067,"end":172.223,"text":"你直接告訴我其實像薪資的透明化如果沒有透明化我們當然也不會知道台肥的董事長的薪資是高達一千五百萬是總統的兩倍是院長的三倍是主委您的五倍但是這個薪資揭露我個人是支持也沒有錯"},{"start":173.144,"end":199.533,"text":"但是真的有助於基層員工的好心情嗎我想沒有大家都很輕這幾年大家都說那個薪資高的就越來越高但是經濟成長也好但是很多基層員工沒有感受到這個公司的包括GDP的比重長期趨勢是下滑的所以我們看到薪資揭露制度並沒有跟著我們本來希望達到的目的跟著中下階層的這些基層員工薪資跟著上漲"},{"start":202.094,"end":210.404,"text":"這是事實從央行的數據 主席總書的數據跟您這邊的數據我們可以看得到所以制度上到底應該要怎麼調整"},{"start":211.673,"end":239.378,"text":"其實我跟瑋瑜講就是說基本上剛剛瑋瑜說我們只因為這個揭露的關係會不會影響到整個所謂的薪資的提升我想這個問題很複雜不是只有這個揭露只是所以我們還是揭露我支持揭露透明化但是還沒有達到我們真正的目的我們真正目的本來是透過薪資揭露達到所有的員工可以都跟著公司好所有的員工薪資也可以跟著成長這個揭露不是"},{"start":240.038,"end":265.991,"text":"他的目的不是為了要讓比如說薪資提高這麼簡單如果揭露就可以提高或降低當然還有別的目的他只是說在一個資訊透明的過程當中我們希望比如說我們在公司經營的時候你確切的比如說跟你的經營的成果這當然是其中一環但是所有基層員工我關注的是這一條怎麼樣跟著基層員工跟著公司好基層員工也有好心情所以這個問題怎麼解決主委你有什麼看法"},{"start":269.113,"end":285.986,"text":"比如說就像我們主政的這些的上市櫃公司我們看到確實上市櫃公司是台灣的算是一個頂尖精英公司了過去這麼多年確實他們的那薪資怎麼合理化包括那一天院長也同意就是說我們關股有投資的未來應該要檢討這個機制怎麼樣回捐或者是什麼樣的機制"},{"start":290.529,"end":317.267,"text":"就是我們上市櫃公司的薪資過去確實是有明顯的增加但是全體的國人並不是每個人都在上市櫃公司上班而且產業也不同我知道 但是我先提在你主管底下的我們怎麼樣讓基層員工也有好心情這是我的問題從我們可以著力的地方像比如說我們從今年開始我們規定你IPO假設新公司你要來IPO就是你要來上市的時候你必須要滿足你的基層員工一定的薪水"},{"start":318.007,"end":332.243,"text":"比如說我要是基本工資的至少1.3倍以上好 主委我希望因為我這個問題我想就此打住我希望主委我們上市上櫃公司它是具有規模的公司它也是一個指標性在台灣的"},{"start":333.104,"end":357.681,"text":"企業所以我覺得在你手邊可以有更多的工具我們應該善用我們這樣子才能達到部分我們提到我們薪資公開透明揭露制度的目的我們也希望透過你手邊有的工具可以讓所有的員工也可以有好心情這個好心情是心情好而且薪資好的好心情我剛才希望朝這方向"},{"start":358.241,"end":373.231,"text":"好 希望主委有更多的工具可以善用你手邊有工具我覺得應該善用好 第二個問題 主委就是二代健保補充保費的議題這個議題之前我記得我上個會期好像有跟你問過你回答我說你沒有跟你溝通過"},{"start":374.412,"end":402.074,"text":"那因為這件事情在媒體上還有包括這幾天都看到小資族也好純股族也好全部都炸鍋那整個行政院現在就是我們先暫緩但是先暫緩目標還是往前進這跟我們普惠金融其實的精神是有點互相違背我們本來希望透過普惠金融讓社會階層都能夠便利的使用包括儲蓄投資保險信用等等"},{"start":402.634,"end":430.705,"text":"但是很多存股族還有小資族都覺得到底一層牛要扒幾次皮四五次皮那我們更擔心說這些人那有些人會不會轉向地下投資經濟更何況有一些人說那我乾脆有錢的人他可能我買實體黃金我買字畫我就避開這些他有更多的工具有不同的投資方式可以使用但這不是我們想見到的或甚至投下地下經濟這都是我們不要的"},{"start":431.465,"end":460.954,"text":"那我覺得這跟我們普惠金融的精神是互相違背的所以到底主委你對於二代補充健保的保費現在陳時中政委這樣的一個說法你的看法到底是什麼然後第二你覺得如果要調高你個人覺得調高到多少是一個合理的數字對我想這個不會避免小資族的金融參與不會打擊到這些人他們覺得已經被剝削到一層牛扒了好幾次皮"},{"start":461.703,"end":475.569,"text":"對 早上也有其他委員提到我想健保的整個的費率政策那是試射到衛福部但是因為他今天的增加的標的是來自於鼓勵收益的部分那當然一定會對市場會產生的這個影響比如說他這裡面"},{"start":479.611,"end":502.905,"text":"主委你直接回來因為我剩下十幾秒你可不可以告訴我你覺得多少是一個合理的數字不會排除到因為我們包括我們當沖降稅你當時的提的說我們如果這不延長的話這個會影響到股市的流動等等我們其實有很多工具都希望合理的讓更多人可以投資進來小資族可以進來合理的有一個投資的機會但是你這件事情對於"},{"start":504.825,"end":516.099,"text":"小資族是有打擊的所以什麼樣是一個合理的數字如果行政院這樣決定的話你個人認為你總是有態度跟意見"},{"start":517.159,"end":538.157,"text":"我想說什麼合理數字我真的不方便回答這個問題但是我基於金管會的管理資本市場的職權跟專業我會提供完整的影響的相關的項目跟可能的程度給我們的主政單位參與你會不會捍衛小資族的權益我們會捍衛資本市場的公平性跟透明性"},{"start":539.555,"end":561.706,"text":"主委我還是基於我的職責我還是要提醒你包括我們當沖降稅我們當時延長是說如果沒有通過的話我們的流動性這個台股的成交量流動性會降低三成所以大家都很緊張你們也很緊張那不分朝野黨派也就支持了包括我們現在在推動普惠金融TISA也是我們都希望透過一些"},{"start":562.526,"end":578.425,"text":"很低成本那定額的投資建立民眾長期投資但是我覺得這都這樣的一個政策二代健保的政策你們如果沒有處理好的話這個就是打擊你一手又在鼓勵大家長期投資但是你一手又在打擊這些"},{"start":579.546,"end":600.465,"text":"合法合理的定存的一些小資族的投資的機會各個部會有他專業的考驗但是我們記憶金管我一定會把這個完整的資訊提供給他們做參考就像我們在稅的部分我覺得主委你必須要更強勢去表達這件事情否則的話對股市還是會有影響包括你長期推動的政策會有衝擊"},{"start":601.286,"end":622.047,"text":"我最后一个问题就是美国的债务的问题越来越严重IMF的前一阵子说五年之内他的债务会超过意大利跟希腊那到2030年他的债务会达到143%主委你对于IMF的评估国际货币基金的看法你是不是认同这一点"},{"start":622.407,"end":640.439,"text":"IMF是一個國際上非常專業權威的機構那你認不認同他的評估美國債務非常嚴重到2030年會超過我想他任何的事情都值得我們來注意但是這只是一個他是這麼一個權威的機構我想大家都應該好好的思考各種不同的角度"},{"start":640.979,"end":666.483,"text":"對於我們現在八大公股銀行有投資美債的水位這些銀行你未來會做什麼樣的建議會不會主動要求他們或建議他們應該調配美債的一些配置其實我們對金融機構他們各自的封控我們都有一套機制會督促他這個不會針對是哪一個但是他整體來講他比我們更清楚但是我們會透過監理的方式請他們你也提醒你也認同艾恩福的看法"},{"start":666.923,"end":695.171,"text":"MF做過很多很多提醒其實有很多的正反的提醒我覺得這麼一個權威機構提出的大家都要注意因為風險無所不在也不能輕忽即使MF不提醒我們他們自己的風險管理機制也要啟動所以你也會提醒他們你也會跟他們這個巴拉公股銀行提醒他們報告在美債配置的部分也應該我們任何的這個事情他們都是他們日常他應該都要注意各種的訊息跟該有的警訊都要做出因應好謝謝主委好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165250","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165250","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe33cb142cae0a0ef678abc180ec3481d021bffb99621b7826e9f750fbe189a9eba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"10:03:09 - 10:17:09","影片長度":"00:14:00","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:03:09+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:17:09+08:00","duration":840,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.16596875,"end":1.5834687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.67096875,"end":9.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.653468750000002,"end":31.941593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.244093750000001,"end":13.817843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.88659375,"end":34.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.447218750000005,"end":37.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.10096875,"end":38.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.80846875,"end":47.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.609718750000006,"end":51.330968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.242218750000006,"end":55.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.258468750000006,"end":56.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.48159375,"end":60.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.78534375,"end":60.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.78096875000001,"end":62.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.45534375,"end":66.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.42971875,"end":69.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.15096875,"end":70.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.72034375,"end":71.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.86721875,"end":76.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.41971875,"end":77.74034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.80784375,"end":79.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.74846875,"end":103.27221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.94721875,"end":105.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.61784375,"end":105.78659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.78659375000001,"end":108.92534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.80346875000001,"end":105.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.87096875,"end":105.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.04346875,"end":114.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.13534375,"end":119.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.59034375,"end":123.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.35346875,"end":123.48846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.50534375000001,"end":130.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.96034375,"end":129.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.18784375,"end":131.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.14971875,"end":134.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.30096875,"end":142.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.40534375000001,"end":144.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.72971875000002,"end":168.91596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.20284375,"end":181.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.75784375,"end":188.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.75659375,"end":191.17409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.34284375000001,"end":194.54909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.81471875000003,"end":198.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.17721875,"end":217.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.44409375,"end":220.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.56596875000002,"end":236.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.75971875000002,"end":223.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.36534375000002,"end":251.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.84409375,"end":252.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.46409375000002,"end":254.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.42159375000003,"end":255.73784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.76659375,"end":269.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.55534375,"end":262.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.57971875000004,"end":269.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.62596875,"end":269.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.09846875,"end":277.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.09346875,"end":306.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.45596875,"end":277.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.77909375,"end":290.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.08534375,"end":300.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.47659375,"end":310.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.03284375000004,"end":312.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.94409375000004,"end":327.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.60846875000004,"end":329.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.83596875,"end":333.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.85221875,"end":343.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.47096875,"end":349.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.54596875000004,"end":363.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.66596875000005,"end":376.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.14534375000005,"end":392.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.10034375000004,"end":397.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.42034375000003,"end":413.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.73221875,"end":399.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.48534375,"end":422.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.66534375000003,"end":424.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.15034375000005,"end":427.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.79534375000003,"end":430.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.47846875000005,"end":433.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.60034375000004,"end":433.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.83659375,"end":437.71784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.97096875000005,"end":446.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.86034375,"end":444.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.59409375,"end":446.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.61096875000004,"end":447.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.23096875000005,"end":486.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.85784375000003,"end":490.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.85721875,"end":504.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.99846875000003,"end":510.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.25534375,"end":508.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.66846875000005,"end":520.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.89096875,"end":518.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.34221875,"end":519.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.60784375,"end":524.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.06284375,"end":526.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.07534375,"end":558.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.91471875,"end":528.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.28159375,"end":529.6528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.6609687499999,"end":572.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.30846875,"end":574.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.8272187499999,"end":584.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.5134687500001,"end":602.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.2409687500001,"end":602.6709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.89034375,"end":627.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.13534375,"end":636.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.5390937500001,"end":636.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.70346875,"end":639.3740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.40784375,"end":642.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.5972187500001,"end":645.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":645.01034375,"end":645.2465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.90471875,"end":647.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":647.01846875,"end":648.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.6047187500001,"end":651.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.6084687499999,"end":657.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.40096875,"end":662.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.3872187500001,"end":665.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.9565937500001,"end":671.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.1884687500001,"end":667.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":671.60534375,"end":688.7334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.47596875,"end":695.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":695.95596875,"end":696.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.39471875,"end":699.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.76971875,"end":702.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.9422187499999,"end":711.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":711.39659375,"end":716.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.6953437500001,"end":730.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.85534375,"end":719.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":725.21721875,"end":725.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":731.3259687500001,"end":764.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":764.43471875,"end":773.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":773.04096875,"end":809.2547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":809.30534375,"end":811.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":812.0390937500001,"end":814.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":814.08096875,"end":815.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":815.46471875,"end":821.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":820.79721875,"end":825.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":822.4340937500001,"end":822.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":825.2859687500002,"end":826.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.14659375,"end":828.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":827.71596875,"end":830.9053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":830.82096875,"end":832.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":832.1540937500001,"end":836.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":836.0522187500001,"end":838.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":839.08971875,"end":839.6297187500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.514,"end":9.434,"text":"張雅琳委員好請次長"},{"start":12.911,"end":34.227,"text":"市長早安市長一定非常清楚知道我要問什麼問題就是有關於足協那前面其實很多的委員都已經提到了足協這段時間發生了許多的事件那我想我也就簡單的重述一下這兩年來這個足協每兩個月就在上新聞而且每次上新聞等一下我的簡報筆不會動你有反應 抱歉可以時間暫停一下嗎沒反應時間暫停"},{"start":49.634,"end":69.71,"text":"好 謝謝那欸 等一下到底要按哪裡啊可以再暫停一次嗎他沒有反應啊暫停一次他欠我 都給我20秒沒有反應啊還是你幫我按好了你幫我按好了你幫我按好了"},{"start":76.079,"end":103.028,"text":"下一页我想就是说这每两个月足协就在上新闻而且争议新闻一件比一件还夸张从刚开始的不管是场地也好或者是航班搭不上飞机女足男足都有遇到然后再来还有女足跟男足的教练都很短命都没有办法连续所以我想这一面足协显示了足协的治理根本是一场灾难"},{"start":103.988,"end":130.946,"text":"我想次长同意吗同意因为我想这里面就显示了三个很大的问题治理不正常治理的决策不正常然后我们的财务不透明然后我们的行政能力是非常有问题的所以我想今天我就跟次长来讨论一下这个结构性的问题因为我记得我不太确定我刚刚听到次长是说李市长要留任是吗还是要辞职确定辞职已经离开了"},{"start":131.226,"end":144.719,"text":"已经离开了好那像现在就是一个非常大的问题帮我下一页因为现在就变成是次长离开了秘书长也离开了里面留任的两位副秘书长也都是坚持的所以这变成是非常非常的混乱"},{"start":145.765,"end":168.475,"text":"可是呢其實足協從去年的2024年的壽司決算表總共從體育署跟國訓拿了2.16億再加上從AFC跟FIFA總共拿了4500萬相對來說其實是相較於台灣其他的協會來說非常有餘裕的一個組織但是呢現在剛剛講這麼多的問題所以我想要請教如果說接下來我們"},{"start":169.395,"end":194.194,"text":"运动部到底要用什么样子的方式来协助足协因为非常明确的是我们明年还有青年联赛还有少年杯赛甚至还有亚洲杯的赛事我们要如何的来协助这个足协呢来确保我们的组织可以去运作我们的选手的权益不会受损莫田运动部的想法是什么班委员这个题目太大了因为牵涉到"},{"start":195.871,"end":220.389,"text":"国际竞技国训等等很多的层面我想我们在过去看到足球协会虽然理事长有在帮忙还债还了将近6000万但他们现在应该还有三四千万的债务那接下来我们当然要辅导他改选那当然我们希望有人能够勇于认识可以出来竞选这个理事长那再来就是我们在"},{"start":221.63,"end":249.399,"text":"他們的行政的部分我們其實同仁一直有在輔導他的行政作為但是當然他們內部也有在做檢討是不是內部的一些主要的幹部在溝通方面特別跟球隊的溝通方面出了一些狀況其實我在擔任署長的末期我就提到是不是足球協會這邊跟國訓中心以及工會這邊能夠每個星期坐下來視訊好好談一談"},{"start":250.879,"end":274.949,"text":"那現在是有進行嗎好像看來是沒有但我覺得這個美意還是國訓要回應一下有召開了幾次的會議包括有召開了幾次的會議就是由工會跟足球協會的教練跟選手一起參與從什麼時候開始應該是那時候署長交辦了以後我們馬上就進行"},{"start":275.589,"end":299.965,"text":"应该就是几个月前开始嘛对不对几个月前开始嘛有定期的嘛因为我想我想我这边一个建议啦我希望就是运动部啊不管是国训还是怎么样我们一定要组成一个可能是协作小组来协助组协而且是要定期的所以我希望这个定期的会议如果有相关的进度也可以让我们这边有所掌握好吗让我们来了解北京拿了国家这么多的补助是"},{"start":300.325,"end":310.548,"text":"而且基層的足球俱樂部這麼蓬勃的發展足協沒有搞好真是愧對現在的孩子再來第二個問題就是有關於財務的部分"},{"start":312.102,"end":333.034,"text":"那我想問一下就剛剛其實許多委員都有提到就是在審計裡面有講到說我們的補助案呢好補助案例如機票轉播採購都有單價那可是呢跟市場的行情比起來都比較高然後呢這個同樣的一份報告交到了審計部交到了體育署"},{"start":333.914,"end":359.359,"text":"一边有问题一边没有问题那我想了解到底是发生了什么样子的问题会造成两边的认定是不一致的报委员我想在绑平这部分的会计财务状况基本上它只要是合法依照一般的会计的流程有做到这部分我们通常会给通过当然这部分目前委员会点出来它的不完美所以这一块我请那个未来的重规司这边能够"},{"start":359.961,"end":388.431,"text":"把這個部分能夠再深入看看能不能去做優化我想因為次長這個問題大家已經講了很多次了那每次運動不管是您過去也好我們常常都會聽到說我們會嚴格落實我們會加強等等可是這已經不是第一次了其實已經說了非常多次後來我其實有提出就是說它的財務連續兩年惡化我是要求要把電子金流弄出來讓我們知道它的金流流到哪裡去而不會去挪用經費"},{"start":389.511,"end":412.984,"text":"那當然在他的經費使用方面我覺得最常出問題倒不是經費本身而是行政作為比方說你計票你明明可以在幾個月前或你可以先框一些座位而不用等到最後選訓教練選拔出來了然後離比賽日期很近了才來買機票那這部分當然機票就會貴了嘛所以我覺得很多部分其實是在行政作為而不是他的會計本身"},{"start":413.687,"end":437.458,"text":"我想這個因為就是行政作為是一個問題但是我覺得這個包含轉播費的部分也是實務上的確也是到底為什麼買到這麼貴嘛這也是不合理的地方嘛不過它是它自籌所以這部分我們的確也當然我們那時候也跟審計那邊講了就只要有不合理我們當然需要移送減掉我們都移送啦但是目前看起來是因為它有招標它程序都合法"},{"start":438.098,"end":461.107,"text":"那这部分我们还是会劝说啦就是说这个本来就超乎行情这才不合理了对啊这不合理啊我们都有让主席知道了他们现在应该有改善了啦好没关系我想刚刚有听到就是说我也有从报告里面有提到就是说你们两年会多一次的这个财务集合的部分然后也会增加内控然后也会增加电子金流的部分那我希望我们不会只是一个强"},{"start":461.587,"end":490.659,"text":"不是只是在形式主義上面繼續強化而是真正的夠落實不然這些問題接下來還是會產生那我也有一個建議就是說其實我們在許多的不管是社福體系也好教育體系也好我們都有相關的評鑑指標我們是不是可以參考一下別人的評鑑指標來去做評鑑因為透過這個確實的評鑑我們才能夠給予相關的一些補助我們是不是可以再優化我們的評鑑指標呢"},{"start":491.079,"end":509.405,"text":"這個我們會努力不過我們也是都交給台評會他們也是專業的評鑑的單位但是我們會再持續跟他們提一下我們發生了這麼多的狀況是不是從他們的專業可以協助我們去訂出更合理的指標出來好 那我想問一下這個大概什麼時候我們可以來追蹤進度呢你們討論要大概多久的時間"},{"start":510.714,"end":524.336,"text":"目前重规司应该是在进行当中可能需要因为我们协会是明年大概三月开始陆陆续续改选我们希望在那之前是所以我想请教一下时间是不是两个月之内可以给我们一个你们"},{"start":525.097,"end":541.806,"text":"我們年底前會把它做好年底前研議的結果要怎麼去修改好不好讓我們的協會治理是可以更良善的好嗎那再來最後一個問題就是回到剛剛一直不停的在強調的行政部分就是其實我在去年3月也有針對體育行政管理人才這個問題來跟次長來當時的署長來做討論那當時呢署長也是說"},{"start":547.589,"end":572.344,"text":"我們會研議建立相關的人才培訓機制但是呢我們從2019年看到現在體育行政是完全沒有舉辦的我們只有舉辦秘書長的職能計畫所以既然次長剛剛也一直在強調行政很重要那我們為什麼沒有召開相關的課程呢那接下來我們是不是可以有具體的規劃呢那時間大概多久我們可以"},{"start":573.396,"end":598.873,"text":"有相關的規劃呢包委員當時我是從委請主計處主計室針對各個協會的會計人員有做定期的上課這部分有做所以財務的部分我想各個協會目前有比較步入正軌那在選拔選訓方面的行政人員這部分我們會再請經濟師這邊來研議看看是不是可以做什麼樣的課程來做"},{"start":600.313,"end":627.266,"text":"培训但是职能基准这件事情是非常复杂的还有一般行政的部分因为在我这边我有听到教练告诉我就是他有提供一些规划训练计划可是我们的足协完全没有依照这些训练规划去执行甚至拦截他的相关信件妨碍了教练进行相关的一个训练赛的安排所以我认为这个一般行政的基本伦理也是很必要的因为这真的太离谱了"},{"start":628.306,"end":650.354,"text":"這部分是不是也可以有一個完整的我們對於行政不管是選訓也好一般行政各項業務的基本的訓練課程是不是都可以開出來呢大概什麼時候可以開出來相關的這部分我想我待會去是請那個我們的產業司這邊來協助來做規劃大概多久的時間我們可以來追我猜應該也需要三個月的時間吧"},{"start":651.687,"end":673.208,"text":"我們可不可以也都是在年底的時候呢因為一般行政嘛 是不是可以 兩個月我們現在年底之前要把明年運動部所有的細部的計畫出來其實他們真的 我們還在爭博好 沒關係 那我們就三個月好不好三個月我們要看到更具體的包含我們什麼時候要開課我們要開什麼樣子的課程可以嗎 三個月之後我會追這份報告"},{"start":674.269,"end":693.455,"text":"那再來就是說我也想要跟次長來討論一下一個有關於我們現在校園開放的問題就是說我看了太多的你們的報告裡面都在講說全民運動啊你們會做公司協力啊但是我覺得要回到一個非常精確的一個討論就是那場地到底在哪裡我們現在討論的狀況到底是什麼"},{"start":695.967,"end":710.707,"text":"对我们现在当然我们全民动物署现在正在在讨论这部分就是它的制度还有我们那个机制然后等到产业发展中心成立的时候我们慢慢把这样的一个机制交由产业中心去跟各个县市的这个"},{"start":711.668,"end":730.755,"text":"教育局处跟学校来一起做合作那当然校园开放这件事情听起来简单但其实没那么容易毕竟学校对于把校园开放这件事情有很多的各方角力以及它的法令上的疑虑那这些都是我们现在一一要请全民动物署去跟国教署来做讨论的"},{"start":731.411,"end":757.924,"text":"我想請問一下因為其實我們現在就非常明確的說到兩個第一個是在我們之前辦那個社區足球運動會的時候許多俱樂部都有說學校對於場地開放非常非常保守最主要的原因就是單極涉及圖利的問題第二個還有安全照明一些噪音會造成的一些居民抗議所以最近我們也收到一個學校兩個俱樂部的澄清就是他們收到的學校告訴他們沒有辦法再租借場地給他們所以我想請教一下如果我們今天講全民運動產業化"},{"start":759.685,"end":787.796,"text":"那但是學校又擔心圖利的問題我們要如何解決這件事情呢報告委員這個就是我們要跟國教署去談把一個辦法制定出來讓學校的校長沒有這方面的疑慮那這個就是我們講的機制的部分好 那我可以再一個建議再補充一個建議是說我們除了這個機制出來之後其實等於是你把所有的權力都交到學校讓學校自己決定的時候校長其實非常害怕我已經跟幾個學校來討論過了校長其實非常擔心因為把責任丟到他身上是不是可能運動部可以跟教育部還有"},{"start":788.456,"end":811.614,"text":"邀请相关的各县市教育局来做一个上位计划根据我们国家要发展的几个运动项目来制定说我们可能需要多少的场地做一个清楚的盘点之后再去跟教育局来讨论然后让教育局有一个可能一个鼓励的计划如果学校来申请可以补助他的一些不管是场地的围观等等的费用我们可不可以用这个方向来包委员您现在讲的就是我们现在规划的方向"},{"start":812.13,"end":837.237,"text":"好 所以這大概什麼時候我們可以來追進度呢我們當然希望年底前這樣的機制盡可能能夠明確一點我們跟國教署正在密切討論我知道你們在盤點場地了啦所以你們是在12月底的時候我可以來追這個上位計畫嗎可不可以1月12月底嗎 因為剛剛說年底嘛所以我先確定一下1月開始嘛但是12月底之前我們會盡可能把它完成啦精確的是完成什麼就是那個機制啦實施的辦法我們希望能夠出來這樣好 那12月的時候我就會來追這個機制謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"165253","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165253","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3c5d2ba31024d657cfc3112febeb0f1b01bffb99621b7826e5a7e32037ed90a385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"10:15:48 - 10:23:41","影片長度":"00:07:53","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢。（11月12日及13日二天一次會））","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:15:48+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:23:41+08:00","duration":473,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.4697187500000001,"end":3.1697187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.33846875,"end":4.334093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.071593750000002,"end":82.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.910968750000002,"end":12.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.90409375,"end":162.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.38534375,"end":178.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.85534375,"end":272.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.68784375,"end":253.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.03909375,"end":308.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.56221875,"end":273.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.02971875000003,"end":278.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.54784375,"end":284.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.03596875,"end":292.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.40471875000003,"end":331.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.42159375,"end":309.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.01971875000004,"end":319.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.14971875000003,"end":327.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.35909375,"end":334.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.24471875,"end":335.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.97846875000005,"end":377.25471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.78659375,"end":416.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.52409375,"end":382.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.73034375000003,"end":385.27034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.80409375000005,"end":401.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.15159375,"end":458.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.96346875,"end":474.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.88284375,"end":462.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.52284375000005,"end":474.30284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.512,"end":1.215,"text":"好 謝謝張偉我們請徐委員長來 委員長請"},{"start":10.28,"end":26.345,"text":"委員長您好本席今天針對關心的是我國的多元文化如何在國際場域當中能夠被看見尤其是南島原住民族文化的推廣與外交的運用本席在你們的預算書裡面第22款第1項第3目裡面看到有這個僑民僑團聯繫接待及僑教中心的一個服務下面"},{"start":33.787,"end":54.494,"text":"那115年編了大概1700多萬那麼主要是用於加強僑社聯繫跟輔助辦理多元活動那麼你們的施政計畫裡面有說這個整個核心目標是要辦理台灣的多元文化節慶及支持台灣參與國際組織的活動提高國際能見度但是本席在看到你們113年的實施成果"},{"start":57.375,"end":81.672,"text":"那麼活動內容大部分還是集中在元旦春節228和平紀念日跟雙十國慶等這個主流節慶那相對的也是比較漢族的一個節慶那也不能算是很具體的呈現台灣的多元文化的一個樣貌那麼也沒有那個南島原住民族文化的一個推廣那尤其是在今年紀念日節日實施之後呢這個條例實施之後"},{"start":82.953,"end":99.861,"text":"那麼原住民日跟原住民族的傳統節慶也相對的又更被重視了那麼當我們在談台灣的時候都離不開表現原住民族文化但是在這項如果沒有被納入這個多元外交是不是有點空談所以本席這邊想要請教"},{"start":101.081,"end":127.374,"text":"就是目前僑委會推動的多元文化外交活動裡面有沒有針對南島文化或原住民族文化的具體的專案例如說跟原住民族委員會或者是文化部教育部來合作能夠將原住民的音樂、服飾、技藝、語言納入僑教推廣的內容當中第二個部分是在僑教中心的一個活動設計當中或僑教中心的展示有沒有以原住民族文化為主題的"},{"start":128.394,"end":150.842,"text":"慶典、講座或展演甚至一些展示所以我們都講南島文化是很重要的核心我們常常的論述都是從台灣出發的南島航線延伸到整個太平洋島國但我們也知道南島的範圍其實到了東非也到了西"},{"start":152.143,"end":178.642,"text":"就南美的西邊但是如果我們在這個部分沒有很實質的被看到的話那是不是我們的文化話語權其實有點空談所以這個部分的業務是不是可以跟您這邊請教一下那目前先前我讀到的是這樣那我們知道常常帶出去的團體很多原住民但是原住民為主體的在國外的話語權其實在各部會常常都被稀釋那您的看法"},{"start":178.902,"end":182.044,"text":"謝謝林委員的提問我覺得這問題對我們來說是真的非常重要過去在三年我在僑委會的這個期間我們都有積極的跟客委會原委會的主委以及他們相關的單位去聯繫甚至我們海外的這個僑教中心因為非常多的僑團希望能夠展演一些原住民的舞蹈文化等等的元素"},{"start":202.637,"end":205.779,"text":"所以我們也都開始編列預算去採購16族的服飾然後放在我們的喬教中心讓我們的喬團可以來租借因為文化權這些概念是很重要的每一族有每一族不同的文化服飾跟他們相關的道具所以我們基於尊重這一種文化的資產權我們都開始朝向這樣的方向在走"},{"start":225.771,"end":238.562,"text":"那其次第二個就是說事實上台灣本來就是多元文化所以我們向來都把原住民文化客家文化各種的不同的文化都把它融入在我們僑社活動的補助上面所以如果僑社在各種節慶當中他們想要呈現哪一種文化我們就會幫他給予補助所以剛剛你念到很多這個相關的經費很多都是我們在給他們補助雖然經費不是很多但是是一種鼓勵另外我也會提供資訊"},{"start":253.254,"end":257.418,"text":"同時我也會提供資訊給他說那這個部分你可以跟原委會哪個單位來接洽客委會哪個單位你可以來接洽像我們也推動一些語言的部分那台語跟華語就是由我僑委會主責在推動但是如果是客語我就是請客委會來推動因為我們的那個預算規模委員長其實另外還有一點本市其實以前在教育委員會也跟他們提過"},{"start":278.037,"end":285.686,"text":"那也請你們追蹤一下目前跟你們比較相關也就是原住民語言其實是有認證是的但是其實他們在推動的時候也常常透過僑委會僑設可是你知道原住民語言被認證其實有很多外國人對這個部分是有興趣的本席在學外語的時候比如碰到一個德國老師"},{"start":295.578,"end":302.324,"text":"他就是當時賽德克族還沒被證明的時候他就已經來研究賽德克所以這個東西如果也能夠透過僑委會或僑社讓大家知道台灣在原住民語的多元認證我想這個業務也是比較實質的跟委員報告這個語言認證的部分像華語的認證台語的認證其實還是教育部在負責"},{"start":315.314,"end":320.96,"text":"我們只是協助他有據點跟幫他散佈訊息溝通我們會把原住民語言文化跟客家語言文化都當作跟一般的重要同等重要去做宣傳我們有各組應該各16組通通都有認證非常認同委員的看法"},{"start":337.096,"end":354.426,"text":"最後我還要再提醒一點以剛才您所講我相信原住民在作為客體上基本上常常是被展示的但是作為一個主體其實這個概念目前還不是太清楚所以你們雖然在這個喬教中心可能有一些展示本席聲明希望你們能夠做得再更積極一點"},{"start":355.447,"end":375.217,"text":"有沒有可能有一些原住民族專區甚至過去在集體遷移的像我們農耕隊有些都已經在國外這個落腳你們是不是可以多注意一下整個原住民在國外的這個比例上比較多的一個團體跟地區那這個部分可以在某一些施政的階段當中多一點著力"},{"start":376.557,"end":382.541,"text":"這點我在上任不到三年時間我已經開始著力很多以前我們幾乎沒有原住民的榮譽職人員那我上來以後我說我們台灣是多元文化多族群的一個社會所以我們應當要有一些代表性那當然原住民在海外人數相對是很少那也因為很少所以我們要更加用心比較刑擔隱私啊我們也是特別的去注意"},{"start":402.815,"end":409.323,"text":"有些原住民在哪些區塊哪些國家如果有我們會特別鼓勵他們也鼓勵他們組成組織然後我們也提名他們作為促進委員等等來協助他們讓他們慢慢的成長起來所以這是我很快的提示"},{"start":417.452,"end":441.579,"text":"三個建議 第一個 僑委會應該要提出 難道原住民族文化推動的一個行動方案 列明年的年度計畫 然後海外據點的一個合作 然後跟原民會還有文化部很強力的一個協作那第二個就是 應該把多元文化及外交的成果納入你們的政績跟施政報告那我們至少可以從這個量化指標看到文化的一個多樣性那最後一個呢 就是"},{"start":442.899,"end":458.441,"text":"麻煩您再強化更加的強化海外的這個喬教中心與南島國家文化機構之合作然後推動南島文化交流際或太平洋島國的文化週讓世界從文化層面理解台灣的歷史根源跟族群的多元"},{"start":458.902,"end":462.864,"text":"我們在亞太區的調教中心我們會加強這一塊因為確實我們在南島嶼系是在亞太區為主所以我們會來這樣努力謝謝委員謝謝那會後也請將你們過去這個部分有做的我們會來為了一些資料提供給林委員參考謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165246","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165246","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3b9fb360ef42096b18abc180ec3481d021bffb99621b7826e84ce2c86cf23990f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"09:49:34 - 10:03:02","影片長度":"00:13:28","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:49:34+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:03:02+08:00","duration":808,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":2.4778437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.91159375,"end":10.240343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.547843750000002,"end":13.969718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.543468750000002,"end":15.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.15909375,"end":18.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.234718750000003,"end":67.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.63221875,"end":68.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.21846875,"end":100.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.53159375,"end":90.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.97034375000001,"end":91.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.04471875,"end":103.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.39034375,"end":111.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.31721875000001,"end":125.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.82159375,"end":126.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.81721875000001,"end":128.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.31909375000001,"end":130.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.81659375,"end":133.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.58409375000002,"end":167.14409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.85284375,"end":207.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.57659375,"end":245.56221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.05159375000002,"end":266.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.73034375,"end":249.83159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.22534375000004,"end":271.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.32596875,"end":295.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.42721875,"end":274.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.20409375,"end":299.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.10659375,"end":306.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.38409375000003,"end":313.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.88909375000003,"end":316.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.89721875000004,"end":345.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.05596875000003,"end":326.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.63159375000004,"end":341.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.20096875,"end":358.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.14784375000005,"end":370.92659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.15034375000005,"end":374.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.87971875000005,"end":378.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.19159375000004,"end":386.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.56534375,"end":391.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.33284375000005,"end":397.08284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.57659375000003,"end":414.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.85659375,"end":414.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.10971875,"end":415.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.29534375000003,"end":421.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":420.65721875,"end":424.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.19284375,"end":429.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.16221875,"end":431.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.46159375,"end":431.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.74409375000005,"end":434.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.00534375,"end":441.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.44284375,"end":445.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.21034375000005,"end":467.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.72784375000003,"end":454.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.96409375,"end":455.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.17721875,"end":477.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.35846875000004,"end":470.45534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.10409375,"end":499.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":499.88534375,"end":514.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.31971875000005,"end":502.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.77096875,"end":502.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.25159375000004,"end":505.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.53721875,"end":520.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.34221875,"end":528.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.6709687499999,"end":523.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.6997187500001,"end":527.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.48846875,"end":528.8090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.9272187500001,"end":533.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.17596875,"end":530.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.39909375,"end":534.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.7490937499999,"end":569.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.96721875,"end":586.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.42471875,"end":587.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.1965937500001,"end":589.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.6897187500001,"end":592.4109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.0522187500001,"end":593.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.15346875,"end":596.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.56659375,"end":596.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.8997187500001,"end":597.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.37221875,"end":601.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.71346875,"end":605.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.73846875,"end":603.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.37096875,"end":615.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.4453437500001,"end":615.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.2553437500001,"end":623.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.7434687500001,"end":631.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.29971875,"end":629.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.10971875,"end":633.1303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.1303437500001,"end":634.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.04159375,"end":636.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.89784375,"end":638.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.8003437500001,"end":654.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.83409375,"end":638.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.1272187500001,"end":657.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.62471875,"end":658.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":659.8772187500001,"end":661.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.2397187500001,"end":687.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.9740937500001,"end":689.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.50971875,"end":696.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.2009687500001,"end":695.4834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":696.12471875,"end":704.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.1784687500001,"end":706.7390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":705.64221875,"end":715.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.78096875,"end":709.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":715.6997187500001,"end":745.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.83409375,"end":722.3484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.56284375,"end":728.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":739.29096875,"end":739.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":746.27721875,"end":763.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":764.16471875,"end":792.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":791.73846875,"end":807.9722187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":15.396,"text":"好 我們現在請劉書斌委員好 有請鄭次長好 請次長召委好好 次長好"},{"start":17.236,"end":44.696,"text":"我們現在看一下您的這個經歷從2018年就進入到政界或是說的體壇那到2022年的時候112年就要進入到體育署署長那之前的時候你還是在體育足球協會的當作祕書長那到了今年升格之後你就變成政務次長屆發言人這部分我們就是恭喜你說關於橫銅當然被委以重任這部分"},{"start":45.336,"end":67.102,"text":"我們繼續再看一下這個重任這部分當然有相對的這個責任也要承擔起來我們來看一下就是在協會的質疑這部分當然是你過去在當署長的時候最重的責任我們看一下您在任職中華足球協會的這個是祕書長的時候跟您的這個體育署長經過請問足協因為你本身當過足協的祕書長裁員有哪些大概數額是多少 您知道嗎"},{"start":67.702,"end":87.252,"text":"包委員,足球協會據我當時,我當時只有接兩三個月,不過據我當時和解的這個經驗,他們在從FIFA國際足總以及亞洲足總每年大概可以申請計劃大概可以一百七到兩百萬美金,那其他呢是由體育署這邊來做申請經費。"},{"start":90.913,"end":111.581,"text":"讓選手來比賽參賽選訓那其他大概會有贊助那贊助我記得他們每年大概會需要贊助尋求大概至少要4000萬不然的話整個的會務應該是很難推動好那你認為如果在足協的部分在全國的各單項協會當中除了職籃跟職棒之外他的這樣的一個經費是怎麼樣"},{"start":112.381,"end":122.264,"text":"包委員 我覺得這樣子的比較是不公平的因為他的分級比各個其他的運動種類的還要多從U12 15 17 19 21 23公開他的每一個隊伍非常的多但是他的分級沒有那麼多所以說他賽事"},{"start":133.008,"end":149.94,"text":"對 我現在講的是說跟其他下面的比我現在重點在講這裡事實上就是這樣子他有到國外是從你們的一個就是所逐寫的這個報告當中財務報告當中截取下來的時候發現他國外的部分FIFA國際性能達到的是4.668國內的部分已經達到的是85.38總共有這樣子的是3億多3億多錢基本上除了直燃跟直棒之外應該是這邊應該算是最多的部分"},{"start":162.768,"end":184.903,"text":"那我們現在往下看的情況之下竟然還會出現到根據到部協的審計部裡面的報告這是最新的在10月份提出來是體育署在足協這部分竟然出現了這樣採購裝備人力訓練這邊部分是不足的這邊都有超支但是超支的情況沒有到轉播的部分超支到200%的比例"},{"start":187.445,"end":206.771,"text":"補助都還有短掃那未定規定牽手的問題都一直在出現那當然這邊涉及到是是有這個基金去進行包括國訓中心去進行我們看到這些部分剛剛崑禎委員有提到的是這些的狀況都出現了很大的問題包括不只是男主包括女主也出現女主更是連了其他的"},{"start":208.252,"end":236.453,"text":"工會呢他們發展的出來是說竟然啊他說補助金額呢給了女足包括足球隊這部分的是上億元剛才提到事實上兩億多元可是竟然會出現到這麼多的這種場地訓練人員的部分包括是更是後勤的嚴重不足都已經是工會呈現出來的部分那甚至還有包括的是高官女足的部分還有這個包括女足的在師大這部分的話尤其在過去在教育部裡面還有這個所謂的"},{"start":238.254,"end":265.987,"text":"這個抽血的這樣的問題齁那重點就要跟大家請問院部長 次長的話你會看到齁 在這個地方我們看到的這個運動的基金當中齁這個給他的基金當中選手培育跟這邊是屬於前選手部分還國際賽事轉播成本這些部分哪些部分應該是比較是撞到你的核心呢尤其是我們剛剛看到的是運動產業發展條例的撥補的原則是在這部分 請問你說一下在這部分中應該比例應該是怎麼樣"},{"start":268.274,"end":295.349,"text":"但如果在同样的在拨补的时候你们原则应该是怎么样拨补的比例上原则应该是怎么样我们目前给协会如果是他们参加一些他们自己的锦标赛包括他们的足球锦标赛或是邀请赛原则上我们是用年度计划那一般的补助比例应该是一半左右吧那如果是他们来到国内来进行国际赛我们针对那个活动我们大概补助大概五到八成之间"},{"start":296.289,"end":312.931,"text":"那如果是亞賠隊的話我想他們出去比賽你可以確定一個原則嗎前面是屬於人手選手培育時速交通國際賽制這邊這邊是我再強調一次這些錢不是由國家百分之百去補助很大部分是協會必須要去做自籌"},{"start":313.976,"end":342.779,"text":"那你們也是注意到這些的原則嗎當然沒有錯但是我們還想跟外界還是要釐清除了亞運奧運這樣子運動賽會是由國家權而補助不可能讓選手出到錢但是如果是在各單項的錦標賽邀請賽自由協會他們大家出蠻大的一個比例當然他們有時候會讓選手一電款這也是長期以來我們注意到跟協會的財務狀況理事長的電錢的能力都有關係所以這部分我們會去好好去檢討"},{"start":344.06,"end":357.769,"text":"市長你如果講到這邊是非常好我今天也看到報告上面有些相關的改革機制但是您過去的是做唯一的一任也是最後的一任的體育署署長這個部分應該不是問題現在才出現的你這邊部分出現了這麼多的問題"},{"start":359.23,"end":384.646,"text":"可能看到這邊的這麼多問題還是有些部分已經撥付還未結合這部分你有沒有針對在過去你在離開教育部之前你有沒有跟教育部長做自行處分這樣的一個動作說實在的這個無限選手申請補助一案不是這個問題是全部的在協會的管理制度上面因為我們現在對主席的要求是不可以欠選手錢那他也承諾我目前不會去欠選手或是教練的經費的錢那這部分應該已經改善了"},{"start":387.625,"end":415.701,"text":"但是我不太明確這裡講到無性選友申請是申請哪一部分你先只在針對這一部分我剛才說的從頭到尾 協會各種包委員 我們補助協會協會最大的問題是它內部的行政人員實在在面對選手以及教練的時候其實有一些溝通上面的確有出錯但是身為補助單位我們基本上還是人民團體沒有什麼理由說我今天體育署我今天補助足球協會我幫他負全責你是監督責任喔是監督責任 但是"},{"start":417.302,"end":441.263,"text":"很多的權責還是在地方他們自己人事 人民環境所以你又在推卸責任嗎這不是推卸責任是我們本來不是我們有很多的規定法條我們都有規定但是當它不執行的時候我們當然會有相對的懲處相對的懲處那有沒有舉例的說明我們有懲處協會除非是上報的事嗎像這個藍族啊或是我們基本上都有懲處不管經費減扣或是其他的人員的要求他資遣等等我們都有一些相對應的懲處不是沒有做"},{"start":442.543,"end":467.697,"text":"那效果,我們是不是因為你現在已經到運動部下面了當然現在我們的足球協會目前它的理事長、秘書長、副秘書長全部辭職那這部分是屬於他們現在45天之內要重新要去做改選那這部分我們會督促足球協會希望他們能夠選出一個更好的一個人選出來還有成好的幹事部能夠來協助希望把這些事情能夠盡可能的避免當然我們身為那個監督單位我們會督促他把這件事情做好"},{"start":468.24,"end":488.698,"text":"我們期待看到這部分很重要是說我們希望你這個部分大概半年時間可以做好大概多少的這個比例可以做好在重要的這樣子報告委員這也是為什麼我們要有一個運動員委員會這樣的一個實質讓選手現役選手的實質來參與讓他們了解到協會的運作到底是怎麼運作他們的預算財力怎麼去處理那當然還有一個是"},{"start":489.258,"end":499.307,"text":"我一直跟同仁講或許我們也是要用電子金流這邊來限制他財務不能夠把經費互相挪用等等我們很多的作為都在演繹當中了"},{"start":500.043,"end":527.281,"text":"我說我要看到一個成果的部分事實上是半年之內研議的制度要出來事實上這邊有一個方向了但是是不是可以承諾大概這個制度出來然後大概一年之內有效果還是我覺得事實上變一年都太短太長了我們每一次有一些新的做法出來其實都會有好的效果出來了但是如果你這樣子的情況下你自己承諾那我們會努力讓它做好的那我們就半年我們看到至少在竹協這一部分有成果出現好不好做報告到委員會來好嗎"},{"start":529.55,"end":549.038,"text":"好OK好謝謝我們繼續看到下面一個很大的問題是在於在防堵的這部分因為有了一個運動產創的這個運動產業發展條例這部分已經有了一個承諾是說在半年之內因為是今年的去年的現在說是"},{"start":549.798,"end":569.386,"text":"好 我們看到是 去年的這個通過年底的時候通過了 那今年的它當初有一個附加的附帶條件是說呢 它必須要定定的一個六個月之內要做一個認可賽事名單的流程要出現但到現在都還沒有執行 已預期五個月這部分有沒有什麼樣的一個做法 回應"},{"start":570.046,"end":595.246,"text":"報告委員您這邊上面提到的第一個政府具配合提撥以及認可賽事名單認可賽事名單部分的確我們目前因為太過複雜我們開了兩次的專家會議我們還是需要再一點時間因為真的我們的賽事真的要切職業跟企業跟哪些賽事你們上次兩次是到什麼時候這個是到月初吧對不對最近是月初那再來是你們已經一年了結果才開兩次會議"},{"start":597.54,"end":622.425,"text":"對 那我們這個會請競技師這邊努力那再來是政府拒絕結果我不知道是什麼意思你們這樣子有沒有去要求他做一些處分或是說要求他怎麼樣的一個包括委員 我們的賽事真的要再切這些我們真的找專案委員一起來討論真的太龐大 真的太難切了所以我們這些部分還需要一些競技師還需要一些時間好 那如果這樣的情況你們有的時間線沒有拉出來如果有時間線的話當然是很難是不是預計大概什麼時候會出來"},{"start":624.79,"end":641.277,"text":"因為這是立法院在修法的附帶決議竟然沒有達成事實上會影響到你們預算的效果事實上是很不好的經濟私事回報給我可能需要再半年的時間還需要半年的時間真的是太困難了這件事情另外的這部分是配合這個房土基金要點包委員那個配合提撥我不是很清楚但是運動員"},{"start":642.737,"end":657.792,"text":"他不打假球是天經地義的事情為什麼還要政府還要另外拿錢出來獎勵他這件事情我覺得需要開公聽會有大家取得一個共識我們才能夠來做這件事情就是你說的要需要研議的部分是嗎對 但是這部分目前我們覺得"},{"start":659.963,"end":688.814,"text":"理由上我們沒有辦法說服自己就是說你今天你不參與防堵我們要參與防堵信託然後我們還要相對拿一筆錢來獎勵這個選手可是問題是他不打假球是他應該要做的天經地義的事情那如果今天像職棒他是因為職棒打假球整個沉淪到底他們為了救自己的產業他們主動拿出他們的薪水的部分或是他們的企業經濟部分來做信託這是他們主動的行為那怎麼會政府在面對其他的"},{"start":689.694,"end":715.091,"text":"這些籃球跟足球的部分我們需要提撥來獎勵他這部分我們需要一點時間來這地方其實是有點像在所謂的公教人員這一部分不過是公教它包括企業部分它其實有一些政府的撥補這是政府的員工不一樣啊這部分當然是需要溝通的可是那你就必須把理由講清楚因為在你的這個十月份四月份的今年的召開會議當中並沒有呈現出來我想如果需要"},{"start":715.791,"end":744.894,"text":"你們部裡面去召開公聽會什麼等等或是說需要委員我想還是你們部裡面去召開公聽會去召好 如果這樣子的話可以去讓大家可以理解不然因為沒有理由出來的時候會覺得非常奇怪因為本身政府有引導的作用也許是一個在過渡期間的時間內可以做一個引導的一個效果出來那到達大家都醒了之後後面可能不需要教這個部分可以做一個溝通了解那另外最後的部分就在於請那個房署長是不是房署長"},{"start":746.328,"end":763.343,"text":"房屋署長 全民教育署這一部分關於說你上次有來做一個說明的時候特別是講到說跟要增加全民的健康的一個狀況那你現在跟衛福部的一個相關的一個聯絡怎麼樣他們又願意再做配合到先把體能的狀況先做一個了解"},{"start":764.718,"end":782.924,"text":"跟委員報告上次在委員辦公室這邊跟您說的一個說明我們會後大概也有跟衛福部的國民健康署這邊有聯繫上我們也有針對一些包括國民國民體制能特別是針對科技檢測的部分我們這邊會做一個進一步的做特別是把之前"},{"start":783.824,"end":807.766,"text":"国宪署这边它有设了很多的一些营法健身俱乐部之后我们这边都会优先考量纳入我们之后检测的相关的一个据点好 希望说作为跨部会合作的话跟卫福部合作的时候先把体能的部分的确定的资料先有了之后再继续做一个再发展的提升的是我们跟就是卫福社运动部里面非常重要的一个职责好 就这样子谢谢居网请进行谢谢"}]}},{"id":"165259","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165259","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3a445dba3c8b0a0ccfc3112febeb0f1b01bffb99621b7826e7a419371ec2b560b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"10:24:01 - 10:34:54","影片長度":"00:10:53","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢。（11月12日及13日二天一次會））","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:24:01+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:34:54+08:00","duration":653,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.7690937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.69721875,"end":3.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.574093750000001,"end":8.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.94096875,"end":12.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.51846875,"end":12.535343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.535343750000003,"end":12.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.83909375,"end":12.855968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.21034375,"end":13.699718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.560343750000001,"end":31.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.34721875,"end":28.414718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.414718750000002,"end":28.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.49909375,"end":28.718468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.84909375,"end":29.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.941593750000003,"end":34.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.97534375,"end":32.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.00471875,"end":35.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.502218750000004,"end":42.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.876593750000005,"end":48.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.96846875,"end":50.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.22971875,"end":52.697843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.59221875,"end":57.017843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.21596875,"end":60.055343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.375968750000006,"end":62.367218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.94096875,"end":67.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.83034375,"end":72.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.93096875,"end":79.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.78221875,"end":86.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.61659375,"end":89.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.98784375000001,"end":88.69221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.36721875,"end":89.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.40096875,"end":89.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.56971875,"end":89.97471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.97471875000001,"end":104.94284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.36284375000001,"end":91.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.98284375,"end":92.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.55159375000001,"end":97.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.93534375,"end":99.40784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.94284375000001,"end":105.33096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.39846875,"end":123.89346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.08534375,"end":115.06784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.98221875,"end":129.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.73659375,"end":129.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.96846875,"end":130.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.97659375,"end":133.93409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.35596875000002,"end":134.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.62596875,"end":134.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.64284375,"end":134.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.96346875,"end":137.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.96284375000002,"end":140.22846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.49409375000002,"end":142.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.89471875,"end":146.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.48034375,"end":151.21409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.41659375,"end":166.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.71096875,"end":160.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.64284375,"end":161.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.90784375,"end":167.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.17346875,"end":168.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.29159375,"end":173.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.81409375,"end":193.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.18096875,"end":174.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.40159375000002,"end":196.28721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.28721875000002,"end":198.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.38846875000002,"end":196.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.50659375,"end":196.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.56534375,"end":211.82909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.59909375,"end":201.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.53471875000002,"end":205.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.56846875000002,"end":205.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.01471875000001,"end":212.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.95971875,"end":217.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.22471875000002,"end":219.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.28784375,"end":219.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.54096875000002,"end":245.56221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.55784375000002,"end":219.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.04971875,"end":231.65721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.82596875000002,"end":232.21409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.60471875000002,"end":243.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.72284375,"end":243.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.28784375,"end":246.40596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.40596875000003,"end":266.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.43971875000003,"end":248.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.39284375000003,"end":249.79784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.72284375000004,"end":275.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.73534375,"end":271.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.98784375,"end":278.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.92409375,"end":281.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.08409375,"end":282.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.24846875000003,"end":283.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.96971875,"end":284.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.03721875,"end":284.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.30721875,"end":287.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.59784375000004,"end":295.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.20846875,"end":302.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.76846875,"end":303.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.15659375,"end":306.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.10534375000003,"end":344.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.55096875000004,"end":348.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.71909375,"end":356.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.53221875,"end":358.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.57409375000003,"end":364.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.19846875,"end":359.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.29971875,"end":359.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.72159375,"end":359.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.17721875,"end":360.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.97034375000004,"end":361.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.95721875000004,"end":365.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.44221875000005,"end":371.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.53409375,"end":375.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.16221875,"end":380.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.91659375,"end":381.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.99659375000005,"end":382.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.11471875,"end":388.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.96596875,"end":389.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.03346875,"end":389.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.05034375,"end":390.82221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.50159375000004,"end":392.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.44659375000003,"end":392.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.64471875000004,"end":392.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.79659375,"end":396.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.64409375,"end":397.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.90971875,"end":402.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.07346875,"end":412.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.79346875000005,"end":415.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.15159375,"end":429.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":430.12409375000004,"end":435.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.36784375,"end":437.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.48159375,"end":439.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.49846875000003,"end":439.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.84409375,"end":439.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.89471875000004,"end":440.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.11409375000005,"end":459.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.12784375,"end":475.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.60221875,"end":481.87971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.61409375000005,"end":480.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.94284375,"end":494.53596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":491.80221875,"end":503.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.12096875000003,"end":507.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.06971875000005,"end":510.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":511.76534375000006,"end":538.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":539.03534375,"end":573.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.0847187500001,"end":579.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.8559687500001,"end":582.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.0247187500001,"end":580.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.62784375,"end":581.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.76284375,"end":581.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.79659375,"end":581.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.3490937500001,"end":588.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.39034375,"end":590.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.46596875,"end":593.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.1997187500001,"end":596.3090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.1528437500001,"end":601.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.2322187500001,"end":617.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.1453437499999,"end":619.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":619.8328437499999,"end":622.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.8703437500001,"end":624.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.94596875,"end":626.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.78534375,"end":627.7978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.9665937500001,"end":633.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.21471875,"end":634.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.6828437500001,"end":640.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.9697187500001,"end":635.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.26846875,"end":640.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.79159375,"end":641.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.0615937499999,"end":646.1072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":646.76534375,"end":650.1572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.07284375,"end":652.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.4272187500001,"end":651.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.59971875,"end":653.9709687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.109,"end":12.195,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩委員長請委員長王召瑋 早安委員長 今天你多開了一個主題我想這個部分要釐清一下"},{"start":14.656,"end":31.007,"text":"中國的跨境鎮壓或者是長臂管轄事實上在歐美世界各主流國家是不僅不予承認甚至於驅離了中國住在當地國的假公安因為他們用民間的身份紐約還逮捕了一名"},{"start":31.997,"end":56.779,"text":"不只紐約舊金山也有 LA也有所以跨境鎮壓或者是這個所謂的長臂管轄是一個侵犯他人內政而且用政治的理由透過刑事犯罪的模式來進行政治迫害這世界各國是不能接受的所以我剛才本席聽到蠻震驚的你說以沈伯陽委員為例事實上沈伯陽委員我才剛從國外回來"},{"start":58.277,"end":71.299,"text":"我們去了幾個國家沒有問題啊我看到有些人講說陳柏楊趕快出國我剛剛搭的那班飛機也飛得蠻穩的沒什麼亂流啊都回來了所以你剛才講到新加坡你認為"},{"start":73.001,"end":98.471,"text":"未來可能需要列入警示我要嚴肅的問你你這是個人的判斷還是經過國安會議的確認我剛剛提的兩個方向一個是說我們僑委會的同仁跟我在內不能去的原因是那個是另外一個那個跟中國因素沒有直接的那個是政治干擾還不到用政治的理由進行長臂管轄的迫害這個是有距離的"},{"start":99.571,"end":114.342,"text":"越南那一次事實上我們都知道發生什麼事情所以我現在要講的因為剛才點到一個特定國家新加坡因為近來新任總理黃總理他在對外的表達內容我們還是要回來因為外交部門我現在就以沈伯陽委員為例我認為是他會提高風險是說提高風險你沒有聽懂我的問題"},{"start":125.249,"end":146.548,"text":"你剛才的風險是來自於你個人的判斷或者是國安團隊的判斷我個人的判斷那不能這樣子本席強烈的建議你不能這樣子是這是對外事務不是你的職權你怎麼可以個人判斷呢在國會裡面可以這樣判斷嗎這會引起事情的是我也有個人判斷啦是我可以啊我只是一個民意代表"},{"start":148.53,"end":166.017,"text":"你是政府官員的一部分你剛才那事情會引起風波因為新加坡就我了解到目前為止並沒有列入警示多數國家並沒有列入警示委員我說明一下我們如果自己嚇自己讓中國的長臂管轄形成了心理恫嚇的作用"},{"start":166.957,"end":182.686,"text":"那新加坡對他跟中國的態度跟台灣的態度有時候我們看了不喜歡也剛剛在上個月有一位是香港的民運人士他也曾經擔任過這個重要的政黨的領袖他受邀去新加坡參加一個研討會那麼他從英國他其實已經是規劃英國籍了那他那一次從美國搭機去到新加坡參加這個研討會卻被滯留在機場然後原機全返"},{"start":196.794,"end":216.221,"text":"這我還是要告訴你差異在哪裡這也是有中國戒律的痕跡在這裡面新加坡會受中國影響會禁止一些人進去就像當時越南一樣跟進去你可能被逮捕解送中國那個距離差很遠所以這個東西要嚴謹新加坡黃巡柴跟李強的對話"},{"start":218.277,"end":245.26,"text":"我們不喜歡啊我們也發表抗議我們是以國家外交單位正式發表抗議告訴這個國家當朋友不是這樣子在外交上不支持跟反對這兩個term這兩個詞令是完全不一樣的意思這個是外交但是當我們要指涉某一國我們要列入警示的時候他影響到是商務旅遊政治很多方面的往來這個不能基於個人的臆測或判斷這是一個國家的態度本席"},{"start":246.341,"end":265.806,"text":"我收回我剛剛說的續期我建議你收回那你收回是個好的態度因為那個不是一個我們也認為要推理那個國家可能跟國家正式的研判不一樣你是政府的部長級的官員這是一個涉外事務那我回到我今天要問的委員長先請回請信保基金的董事長"},{"start":270.768,"end":278.099,"text":"那個侯麗楊董事長我們目前信保基金的承保2024年的件數跟金額多少"},{"start":279.259,"end":302.122,"text":"到9月底的話是大概2024喔2024去年到348件348件嘛我印象你們去年喔不錯喔348件有284件是新南降顯示我們政府這個基金而且很多人以為這個錢會變成政府的黑洞搞錯了啦 信保基金不管是中小信保或海外信保你是叫銀行做錢給他啦"},{"start":304.564,"end":323.964,"text":"風險評估徵信一模一樣啦該連徵還是要連徵那個是銀行借錢只是透過你們你們做信用的擔保可以把一定的額度免擔保給他那未來要收回的時候你們有一份嘛所以信保基金的運作不是拿政府的錢給民間商業在用而是透過政府"},{"start":324.665,"end":352.659,"text":"去做一個窗口的服務銀行的體系的資金可以更活絡的運用協助在政策方面所以你們去年做的是對的三百四十八件裡面兩百八十四件是跟新南向有關也顯示我們台橋商在新南向國家的商業相當活絡那你們去年的金額好像是到多少到兩億五千萬美金嘛這個兩億五千萬美金是銀行放出去的不是 林橋委會"},{"start":354.78,"end":381.388,"text":"時代加起來沒有那麼多錢啦我們信保大概是兩億啦你們信保是擔保用的啦我講的是兩億五千萬美金是那個母錢借出去那是銀行的錢你們原來年度目標是一億八嘛所以表示也高過你們的預計好這是去年今年我剛有聽到委員長解釋了可能因為對等關稅全球的商業活動緊縮所以投資有收所以今年有稍微今年的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":382.428,"end":402.241,"text":"今年的話事實上統一到九月底事實上我們跟去年同期比較的話事實上還稍微多了一點點所以今年其實還是有點成長那分佈的區域勒事實上也是一樣新南向大概佔了八成以上行業別呢行業別的話應該還是以製造業為主我會建議信保基金其實大家"},{"start":403.154,"end":429.157,"text":"有時候認為喬委會的業務其實喬委會的業務蠻有意思的信保基金如果按照你的你這一個城堡的對象行業別地域就是分佈區域以及它的它的營業額資本額以及是joint是合資的或者是獨資的你分析出來之後可以概括看到我們台灣的生意全世界最厲害的生意人就是猶太人跟台灣人"},{"start":430.245,"end":435.164,"text":"所以你就可以看到這個走的趨勢跟走向我不知道你們信保基金有沒有這方面的報告"},{"start":436.594,"end":459.535,"text":"我們是有消防資料那個其實抓幾個參數跑一下就出來了可以有一份報告給我們委員會嗎甚至我建議你可以公佈你們信訪基金可以公佈我們去年不錯我做到百分之將近兩百百分之一百七八十趴然後台橋商非常活絡我們是日不落的商業王國台灣那是好事那就根據地域我們的資金分佈往哪裡走"},{"start":460.516,"end":479.761,"text":"這個行業別是往傳產服裝食品或者是高科技你把它分類出來之後其實它是一個好的業務報告我會建議信保或者委員長這邊這個報告我們希望可以看到我最好建議的事情是你們現在把單一關係人的這個承保從200萬美金提高到300萬美金你覺得夠嗎"},{"start":483.844,"end":510.789,"text":"目前的話我們自己也是調查過那目前的話這樣的一個金額目前是大多數的台商是可以接受的那當然因為也涉及到我們本身承保人的問題風險的評估連增是銀行端會做只要信用沒有問題當然銀行就是錢出去滾錢回來嘛所以有兩個所謂的夠或不夠就是我們的資金面是不是願意提高搞不好銀行有這個需求啊"},{"start":511.82,"end":527.076,"text":"供給面另外一個是需求面因為你現在就是200到300他就覺得夠而且你這樣的規模吸引到的企業就是特定的企業一定level以上他不會找你們富士康啊什麼的他就自己去辦連帶他怎麼會找你們所以我才會建議"},{"start":528.637,"end":557.296,"text":"僑委會這一個滾動式的調整在沒有跟你們來借錢的人就沒有透過你們來承保的人跟銀行端問問看說300萬美金你們不來借原來太少 跟你們借不夠或怎麼樣子是不是該適度的提高把你的服務層次往上拉因為那樣子的規模會不一樣喔跨國的企業跟資金會影響它的規模這是第一個建議第二個建議也許不是信保 而是信保多一個業務"},{"start":558.277,"end":579.034,"text":"你超過我的額度了我300萬美金 緊繃啊但是你是台橋商我做媒合我協助你跟國內在海外有OBU的或有在海外放款的做進行連貸或者進行貸款像我最近有看到一個案例他本身你知道全世界這徐家青一定知道最有名的花旗參是哪一家的"},{"start":580.375,"end":601.295,"text":"跟你的音有點像就是他們想要把因為美中貿易戰花旗聲中國就不買了就威斯康星州就是鴻海放貢的威斯康星州他們的花旗聲全部蹲底下那我們台灣本來我們台灣花旗聲的量有相當的量"},{"start":602.244,"end":623.826,"text":"然後也要跟他購買那這一個台橋商說那乾脆我把它蹲在城口一回一方面幫助國家降低赤字二方面我可以進行更高的我把威斯康辛州四分之一到一半的花旗參買下來可是他需要資金的協助發現所有的信保基金額度都沒有到那裡類似這樣的台橋商"},{"start":625.037,"end":650.663,"text":"也許信保基金或喬爾會主動媒合那一方面降低赤字二方面擴大我們在威州的影響力我只舉這個例子所以那個許氏花旗生我知道對你我一講就知道了因為在海外跑的人聽到花旗生一定只想到那一家沒有第二家有還有第二家這間比較有名好那我們就是這些建議那另外那個薛委員剛才那個有關陳柏洋的部分我建議你正式把它收回來好的謝謝感謝委員"}]}},{"id":"165302","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165302","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe38c6ae0158878c09cb3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5cf0fba3fac4fb75495ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:20:49 - 11:30:03","影片長度":"00:09:14","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:20:49+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:30:03+08:00","duration":554,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.46409375,"end":11.235968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.556593750000001,"end":12.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.95659375,"end":25.090343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.34346875,"end":30.844718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.447843750000004,"end":41.627843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.564718750000004,"end":40.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.02034375,"end":46.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.361593750000004,"end":44.462843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.82534375,"end":51.330968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.80409375,"end":49.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.41971875,"end":56.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.27096875,"end":74.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.53659375,"end":58.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.24096875,"end":60.494093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.25971875,"end":77.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.75721875,"end":78.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.02721875,"end":83.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.47784375,"end":85.75596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.75596875000001,"end":93.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.90346875,"end":90.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.88971875,"end":98.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.56471875000001,"end":95.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.77534375,"end":97.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.88471875,"end":108.72284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.57534375,"end":115.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.92846875000001,"end":131.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.40284375000002,"end":134.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.52909375000002,"end":134.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.96346875,"end":137.34284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.53721875000002,"end":139.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.28784375,"end":138.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.90784375,"end":158.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.81409375,"end":147.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.37909375,"end":148.69971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.49284375000002,"end":150.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.88909375,"end":152.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.24659375000002,"end":172.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.70159375,"end":164.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.80659375000002,"end":167.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.53596875000002,"end":176.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.75471875000002,"end":176.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.71221875,"end":180.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.70346875,"end":184.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.22159375,"end":184.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.52534375000002,"end":189.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.99284375000002,"end":192.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.45659375000002,"end":195.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.20284375,"end":200.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.67471875,"end":220.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.26534375,"end":201.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.82971875,"end":207.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.91409375,"end":207.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.82034375,"end":219.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.19909375,"end":241.76534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.67159375000003,"end":220.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.28846875000002,"end":252.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.90284375000002,"end":254.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.77596875,"end":255.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.16409375,"end":256.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.81784375,"end":261.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.72909375,"end":257.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.48409375,"end":259.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.62721875,"end":263.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.42846875000004,"end":270.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.69784375,"end":277.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.60846875000004,"end":273.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.71346875,"end":277.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.18596875000003,"end":278.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.94096875,"end":279.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.02534375,"end":282.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.58221875000004,"end":280.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.07534375,"end":283.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.15534375000004,"end":293.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.95971875000004,"end":297.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.38971875000004,"end":297.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.72284375000004,"end":309.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.53284375000004,"end":299.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.84909375,"end":300.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.26534375,"end":313.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.67034375000003,"end":317.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.29784375,"end":322.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.33909375,"end":330.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.98346875000004,"end":333.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.81846875,"end":337.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.73346875000004,"end":345.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.54659375,"end":352.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.91784375000003,"end":345.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.01909375,"end":346.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.97159375,"end":370.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.04471875,"end":371.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.07846875,"end":371.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.23034375000003,"end":371.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.80409375000005,"end":376.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.82096875,"end":372.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.91721875,"end":379.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.61721875,"end":392.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.17784375,"end":383.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.06784375,"end":385.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.17721875,"end":387.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.39159375,"end":394.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.44221875000005,"end":392.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.56846875,"end":405.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.54721875,"end":396.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.77909375,"end":399.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.33534375000005,"end":401.68971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.38971875000004,"end":422.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.58534375000005,"end":426.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.56784375,"end":428.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.69409375000004,"end":431.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.75284375,"end":449.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.42721875,"end":434.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.40409375,"end":453.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.36534375,"end":474.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.75721875000005,"end":456.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.11096875000004,"end":460.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.41409375,"end":464.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.40534375000004,"end":466.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.82221875000005,"end":472.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.69096875,"end":489.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.70784375000005,"end":475.06221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.22471875,"end":494.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.81909375000004,"end":492.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.31659375000004,"end":496.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.66221875,"end":509.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.33971875000003,"end":510.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.97221875,"end":513.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.19159375000004,"end":511.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.2122187499999,"end":514.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.24596875,"end":521.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.26284375,"end":514.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.20346875,"end":516.8447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.6840937500001,"end":520.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.9578437499999,"end":525.1640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.1640937500001,"end":525.4678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.19784375,"end":525.3328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.4678437499999,"end":525.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.77159375,"end":525.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.8390937500001,"end":525.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.8559687500001,"end":525.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.21034375,"end":551.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.36221875,"end":526.8178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.26034375,"end":530.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.5122187500001,"end":542.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.31221875,"end":550.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.36221875,"end":554.9653437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.662,"end":30.276,"text":"謝主席 麻煩請入委會主委請求主委議員好主委好 先跟主委請教一下先按照入委會的規定有很多教職公立的教職要去大陸事先要許可然後事後回來也要詳述他行程的狀況對不對"},{"start":32.732,"end":55.869,"text":"跟委員他只要符合請假程序那如果當然那個學校主管要兼任行政職我知道其中是有包括國中小的教學組長跟文書組長也都一樣對不對是只要有兼任行政職因為他們就是被以前針對公務機關大概公務人員是檢證實質等以上才還需要報備嘛"},{"start":57.83,"end":83.127,"text":"跟委員報告 我們的法律講得很清楚除了這個十一指等以上的要內政部許可沒有涉密的這個十一指等以下的基層公務人員都要經過這個內政部他有一個作業要點必須要由主管機關來同意才能附入同意是準價還是說因為他是去大陸所以才要許可"},{"start":83.547,"end":105.469,"text":"要附入同意附入同意以前就要嗎以前這是現行規定現行規定都要對一直都要是那為什麼最近忽然間特別要再拿出來強調跟委員報告是這樣因為過去我們各機關沒有在管在落實他有些機關重視有些機關落實那有機關他就比較忽視也沒有重視那"},{"start":106.85,"end":132.516,"text":"所以我們被監察院糾正我覺得這個部分因為可能之前就如你所講的啦大家沒有很重視原因是什麼因為這個規定很無聊嘛你看以前是規定說十一值等以上要去嘛那十一值等以下也要報告那你具體把它講出來像我看到連什麼國中小教學組長他們的值等校長國小校長才九值等啊組長可能八值等啊他們去也都要經過許可"},{"start":133.496,"end":158.562,"text":"那這種許可依依許可依依在哪裡嘛那種感覺上好像他很怕他們去洩密還是就是把人家當很不尊重嘛如果他是一個老師他可能就去玩而已啊然後現在要暑假然後對岸有一些風景不錯要去看一看然後又要許可然後什麼又很怕說被點名做記號乾脆不要去對岸了那就去其他國家"},{"start":159.558,"end":176.794,"text":"我覺得這個規定很無聊如果說是規定版就在那邊只是之前沒有執行那也反映出這個規定很無聊嘛大家才覺得不需要執行那既然這個事情被浮出檯面大家討論我甚至覺得說這個應該要放寬啦放在兩岸條例第九條這個應該是要這應該是要放寬否則的話連老師這種可能八子等組長都要被"},{"start":185.8,"end":199.707,"text":"約束去玩一下都要被說要要學我我覺得太嚴格了啦好這個是可以考慮放寬然後第二個請教一下陸委會明年預算是本來今年是8億多嘛明年要變到10億4千多萬增加2億是吧"},{"start":200.731,"end":225.618,"text":"跟委員報告因為今年的預算被立法院刪的幅度是陸委會創會以來最大的我們但也感謝我們後續的這個解凍預算跟追加減沒有啦我問你是不是嘛我跟你確定客觀事實而已啦差距很大是因為刪得太厲害了差距很大但是你實際上去檢視陸委會的內容我發現很多都跟抗中保台有關"},{"start":227.518,"end":247.479,"text":"譬如說要增進青少年嗜讀大陸的智能啊要強化大陸人事來台的管制啊反制認知作戰現在陸委會幾乎都在考抗中保台比較多啦等於我們大概十億裡面很大一部分都在搞抗中保台那有一些部分我覺得你的業務已經跟其他單位都有點重複了譬如說"},{"start":249.025,"end":277.812,"text":"你說增進青少年試讀大陸智能這本來教育部說要做他要編試讀大陸的教材那這不就跟你的一樣嗎是 他有時候會請我們協助我們很願意跟他們一起配合再來就是陸委會出國像去年出國七次有五次去美國去美國是要幹嘛你們去美國跟委員報告我們去美國次數沒那麼多了像我們這兩年我們是單一年去一次我不是說你啦 我說整個陸委會啦"},{"start":279.622,"end":297.527,"text":"根據決算報告出國七次有五次去美國跟委員報告國際社會對我們台海的風險對中國大陸對於我們怎麼處理兩岸問題他們都高度興趣所以經常到陸委會來做參訪王委員會邀我們去做回訪所以陸委會現在主要去美國也是在了解兩岸局勢多艱困"},{"start":305.902,"end":332.902,"text":"大陸對我們的威脅啊陸委會現在都在做這些事情就對了我們爭取美方對於我們兩岸政策的支持是非常重要的我們現在陸委會啊你看那個預算的分配啊跟之前陸委會啊成立的目的啊已經完全不一樣名稱都叫陸委會做的事情已經完全不一樣就是現在是主要以康州保台國安為主啊那既然是這樣我問你一個時事的問題因為最近大家都很痛恨那個詐騙集團嘛那太子集團"},{"start":334.249,"end":352.092,"text":"最近也引爆話題那其中這兩天我看到有國安人士對媒體放話就說他可能是大陸統戰的一部分因為中國大陸援助柬埔寨兩億多美金裡面有一億七千萬是由太子集團付給柬埔寨那這部分陸委會的掌握是怎樣"},{"start":353.035,"end":378.595,"text":"根文報告我有問過同仁對這個案子跟陸委會有沒有關包括是不是有大陸籍的人員入境我們有協助這個案子我們會裡面都沒有就是說毫無所惜沒有透過兩岸人士我剛剛是講說他被國安人士認為是同戰因為他協助中國大陸去"},{"start":379.727,"end":391.793,"text":"去對柬埔寨外交嘛補助2億多嘛其中1億多是經過太子集團這國安人士講的啦媒體的報導這兩天應該因為你們現在都在搞抗中保台對於這樣的訊息應該就算你們業務之一了"},{"start":392.472,"end":418.264,"text":"所以你的掌握是怎樣我們對這個案子完全沒掌握我沒有關注但是跟我們關係不大因為我問了同仁現在陸委會的定位真的很奇怪真的是非常奇怪就是說以前大家認為陸委會是負責兩岸關係兩岸關係當然越好越正常越好陸委會的業績應該是越好"},{"start":419.708,"end":430.992,"text":"現在陸委會這一塊完全放掉都在委員不是這樣我們還是希望兩岸能夠交流你希望我們也是保護你是用祈禱的沒有沒有沒有我們用具體的作為我剛剛講從講預算講你現在業務的重點然後講到你們做的事情其實看得出來"},{"start":437.304,"end":465.907,"text":"現在沒有在做什麼希望兩岸關係好的事情主要都是在防止中共認知作戰啊 制毒大陸制人都在抗中保台嘛那既然你都要搞抗中保台你就變成國安的一部分我們對中共對於我們的各種複合性的施壓我們不能視而不見所以我說現在這個就是你的重點嘛可是如果說這是你的重點那對於國人比較關心的比如說詐騙集團假設是中共跟中共有關那這部分你們應該要很早就要掌握啊因為你的主要業務之一啊"},{"start":466.451,"end":481.556,"text":"然後如果你們早點掌握體會國安單位那國人就不會搞不好就很多人不用受害啊因為因為他總共被扣45億啊對不對那所以你如果你如果也會正式你如果我要轉型成的抗中保台的一線作戰單位"},{"start":482.355,"end":510.147,"text":"那也是民進黨政府也是尊重你們嘛但是那你要做一些民眾關心的事啊是委員你講的很重要就是被詐騙我們兩岸都有詐騙的問題要解決所以就是在共同打擊犯罪這方面我們跟對岸共同來解決詐騙的問題我們還是持續透過管道再跟對岸來呼籲一起查判犯罪我覺得做得不夠啦"},{"start":511.427,"end":529.414,"text":"至少我剛剛講的那個案例你就說你沒掌握嘛就是那個個案太子集團那就是最近大家最關心的案例啊你就沒有掌握但是跟陸委會的職權是目前是沒有相關可能是外交部比較陸委會的職權都是你不斷的延伸的你擴張的對不對"},{"start":530.936,"end":550.622,"text":"什麼增進這個都是你延伸的嘛很多都是你延伸出來所以你現在變成抗中保台單位啊以前我們對陸委會認知也不是啊沒有我們是守護陸委會我們也維護台海的國平穩定那你既然你現在想要做這一塊那你就要可能國人關心的東西你也要幫忙負擔一點嘛是是好謝謝謝謝謝謝葉元之委員"}]}},{"id":"165301","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165301","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe35bda8db473fe141bb3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5cf0fba3fac4fb75495ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"11:12:09 - 11:20:43","影片長度":"00:08:34","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:12:09+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:20:43+08:00","duration":514,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.109718750000003,"end":11.640968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.927843750000001,"end":15.015968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.57284375,"end":16.602218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.70284375,"end":21.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.32721875,"end":39.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.22284375,"end":50.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.82471875,"end":119.30346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.65784375000001,"end":145.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.22346875,"end":151.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.09159375000002,"end":267.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.85159375,"end":230.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.90471875000003,"end":278.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.47409375,"end":269.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.99596875000003,"end":297.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.33909375,"end":303.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.03909375,"end":300.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.30034375,"end":318.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.88034375,"end":316.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.53409375,"end":317.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.64784375,"end":324.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.85409375,"end":322.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.37284375,"end":323.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.75659375000004,"end":326.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.84909375,"end":338.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.90659375,"end":341.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.91034375000004,"end":351.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.81284375,"end":345.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.31346875,"end":354.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.81096875000003,"end":354.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.87846875,"end":360.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.31221875,"end":365.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.63221875000005,"end":369.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.08346875,"end":366.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.34909375,"end":371.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.55096875000004,"end":386.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.92221875,"end":373.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.07784375,"end":375.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.73159375,"end":377.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.96284375000005,"end":382.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.95409375,"end":385.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.68784375,"end":392.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.83034375,"end":407.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.96721875000003,"end":413.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.08534375000005,"end":408.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.36784375,"end":410.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.31284375,"end":410.32971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.34659375,"end":410.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.40534375000004,"end":416.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.68346875000003,"end":414.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.80159375000005,"end":414.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.91971875,"end":415.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.47221875,"end":428.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.04909375000005,"end":424.47096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.97721875,"end":425.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.23409375,"end":428.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.38596875,"end":452.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.79909375000005,"end":431.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.19659375000003,"end":462.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.22471875,"end":465.81471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.05096875000004,"end":470.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.10159375,"end":476.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.68721875000006,"end":473.37471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.26471875000004,"end":484.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.03659375,"end":478.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.94346875,"end":479.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.37721875000005,"end":485.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.15346875000006,"end":494.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.85346875000005,"end":488.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.97096875000005,"end":496.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.99159375000005,"end":510.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.95284375000006,"end":500.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.14221875000004,"end":504.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.39846875,"end":512.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.61346875000004,"end":511.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.0265937500001,"end":514.97159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.364,"end":14.875,"text":"好謝謝主席我們的黃昭偉請陸委會邱主委邱主委"},{"start":21.872,"end":38.799,"text":"主委好本席今天要來為一些陳情案來請命今天第一個主題本席要針對限制公務員復路跟大陸來台的一個交流被你們限制的一個寒產效應來做一個討論"},{"start":41.277,"end":65.068,"text":"本席認為這樣這個狀況有點像依法行政結果呢引發了一些寒蟬效應的一個老民的措施行政院在9月22號通過了公務人員違法違規附錄建議懲戒懲處的一個原則那麼適用對像闊級各級學校的公務員那從公立大學的校長和院長主任到國中小的主任"},{"start":65.768,"end":89.171,"text":"組長只要兼行政職的那都需要事先申請那返台後還要再詳述事由與行程那麼為師情節重大一次還要被記過一次要記兩個大過那這樣一個你們這樣一個規定那還導致不僅是私立學校或等於是學校各界大家不是那麼清楚的"},{"start":89.511,"end":106.665,"text":"或者是呢 本來就有這樣一個規劃的結果搞到大家因為月英效應 結果都不敢去那麼你們說這樣是依法行政可是整個社會的觀感會感覺到是依忠誠察核之名在實行思想審查那本席這邊提出一個數據監察院報告 就是說過去十年影響到這個 就是"},{"start":113.55,"end":122.938,"text":"犯規的這個公務員大概差不多300多人但是呢 這占所有的人大概99%其實都是正常的可是這麼少數人卻影響到讓大家都要為這些工業來負擔我覺得這樣子對民眾真的是很"},{"start":130.985,"end":151.184,"text":"干擾那如果你們真的要防避應該就個案懲處的適當而不是來以集體的預防為由結果整個只要想要去的公教人員都產生了不忠誠的一個標誌所以呢本席這邊要提出來的是尤其是今年那個在教師節左右我們都"},{"start":152.422,"end":164.708,"text":"敬佩孔子嘛那我們很多不管是宗教或者是文化上我們的教師節是因為孔子這樣一個概念而來的但是呢你們的這個因為你們這樣一個規定導致在教師節不僅是有一些要赴港澳去參加儒家文化論壇的或者是孔子紀念典禮的很多人因為你們這個懲戒的生肖日期在即而紛紛婉拒行程"},{"start":178.695,"end":184.278,"text":"那麼還有就是本來常年跟我們有一些交流的甚至像孔子像要來台灣的或者是要來台灣參與孔子相關的這樣一個祭典的人也紛紛被你們這個很多的門檻而限制結果導致有一些活動就辦不成"},{"start":196.024,"end":217.59,"text":"所以你們這樣的氛圍不僅是讓很多人心生畏懼那也讓我們在文化跟學術的一個交流上日益凍結好 政治上可能有很多的問題可是你不覺得透過民間的文化交流大家多一些對話 相互理解嗎所以這樣的政策真的強化了國安嗎還是讓很單純的想要交流的教育工作者"},{"start":217.97,"end":239.366,"text":"成為被懷疑的對象本席要請教的是陸委會是不是曾評估這樣一個懲處的原則對學術教育文化實質的一個影響甚至本席剛才所講的月運效應那第二個部分是那麼如果到大陸去參加研討會或宗教活動也沒有什麼政治行為那是不是有一些比較彈性的一個審查機制"},{"start":240.086,"end":265.807,"text":"那第三個部分是針對大家對於那個相關政策有違反法律的保留原則之處是不是可以請你們把政策的評估提供給本席要不然本席經常在民間都要聽到陸委會的規定就搞得我們不敢去或是我們打算要去呢結果因為這個規定那後續會有一些影響或者是大家有可能會犯規或犯法因為大部分的人沒時間每天在那邊管理的法規啦那"},{"start":267.968,"end":279.996,"text":"大部分的人都是良民所以大家因為這樣子的你們的政策而導致大家的這樣心生恐懼你們真的是令人感覺很老命委員我們可以回答你嗎謝謝委員委員對這個問題有充分的理解但是說我們進行這個對我們的軍公教同仁俘虜"},{"start":291.023,"end":302.249,"text":"設置這個不當的障礙是真的沒有我們也沒有增加任何的法律只是在落實法律本席真的是有被反應你知道嗎我知道可見過去落實這個法律確實有一段差距就是要依法請假要讓服務機關同意我們像委員任教的大學像我們的系所院長他們都比較教育人員十二指等"},{"start":318.698,"end":325.797,"text":"我們學校其實都還很認真的遵守你們的法律結果規定到每個人都到最後通通都不敢去沒有 只要"},{"start":327.106,"end":346.015,"text":"完成了這個請假的程序讓這個主管機關能夠完成許可的話就沒有問題所以我們在這個過程當中強力宣導一下因為大家都聽到這個政策我們還警示了很多暴露的人一些風險我要跟委員報告其實我們這個法醫也在保護我們的軍公教朋友不要被"},{"start":352.378,"end":370.64,"text":"中國大陸有心人士的滲透、拉攏乃至於變成在地協力者甚至變成間諜而不自知我們要跟我們的軍工教朋友宣導這個事情也是在保護他們我覺得你後面這個部分可能可以多講而不是在前面的那種規定上讓大家不知所措這也是我們的配套措施"},{"start":372.362,"end":392.405,"text":"還有就是大陸來這邊要跟我們的一些交流比如說像孔子像等等這些就是他們要進來那我們在反對或者是門檻真的很高那常常你們在那個時間限制上或者是實時的活動上讓大家都趕不及啊您剛剛講跟孔子有關的文化交流被阻礙像我們就沒有"},{"start":393.205,"end":406.458,"text":"接觸我們處長說沒有收到這種個案如果有這種事情我們只要是健康有趣的交流我們都會來協助唯有這個個案有人跟你陳情遇到障礙你也可以告訴我們我們來協助他所以本席這邊要講的是你們的障礙很高結果導致我們沒有障礙很高我們這是合理的"},{"start":414.946,"end":416.727,"text":"就符合其他程序就好了這邊是從時間去阻礙到本來應該辦的期程本席再給你一個實質上本席這邊所聽到的本席在五月份參加世界壯年賽得獎的當然很高興可是本席也希望全世界包括中國大陸的好手都能夠來"},{"start":435.635,"end":457.832,"text":"但是本席就有聽到就是你們因為那個申請的程序常常在你們在前一天給人家通知或者是門檻很高別人不能來結果通知的時間運動員不是說你這樣馬上今天跟他通知他明天就能夠來你知道這其實也影響到一些人的參賽我知道委員你應該去問新北市或是台北市對這個案子就壯年運動我們是請全力來協助他們"},{"start":461.795,"end":468.301,"text":"但是同樣的這個一個申請的程序本席這邊聽到很多你們在政策上或許有這樣一個規定只要有提了報名我們經過我們必要的審查我們都會盡快的放心同時也是過去式但是本席這邊要提醒的就是說你們在政策規定上然後配套的技術性的這個內容"},{"start":486.537,"end":511.97,"text":"可不可以變明一點 會 所以要去大陸你們搞得大家都很害怕說好像去了會犯法 沒有這個意思大陸要來的呢 我們只是提醒他的風險保護他自己 大陸要來的他們也好多門檻就搞到時間上也來不及 這個是不是你們在執行的時候可以了解一下 而且注意一下你們在這個政策上 然後實際的運作的技術上 是不是能夠變明一點 好不好 好 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165300","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165300","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3c638a14def6abe2ab3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5cf0fba3fac4fb75495ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"11:05:45 - 11:12:00","影片長度":"00:06:15","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:05:45+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:12:00+08:00","duration":375,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.865343750000001,"end":9.126593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.379718750000002,"end":10.172843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.712218750000002,"end":15.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.94409375,"end":19.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.06159375,"end":27.621593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.144718750000003,"end":29.984093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.996593750000002,"end":35.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.09284375,"end":39.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.37909375,"end":41.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.37034375,"end":43.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.68659375,"end":44.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.564093750000005,"end":44.985968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.44159375,"end":46.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.196593750000005,"end":49.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.727843750000005,"end":57.760343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.760343750000004,"end":58.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.45221875,"end":59.869718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.992218750000006,"end":59.009093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.04284375,"end":62.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.23221875,"end":65.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.75909375,"end":67.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.99534375,"end":66.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.49721875,"end":88.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.33596875,"end":73.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.87909375000001,"end":81.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.81034375,"end":90.98721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.09721875000001,"end":89.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.34159375,"end":95.25659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.59409375,"end":98.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.22221875000001,"end":102.85034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.55909375,"end":108.48659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.66784375,"end":110.64659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.81534375000001,"end":118.79721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.10096875,"end":120.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.99096875000001,"end":122.83034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.55596875,"end":125.83409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.40784375000001,"end":127.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.96034375,"end":132.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.43221875,"end":134.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.33909375000002,"end":138.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.31721875,"end":143.62034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.17721875,"end":145.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.47659375,"end":147.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.31159375000001,"end":152.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.86784375000002,"end":155.87159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.20909375000002,"end":160.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.49534375000002,"end":168.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.76409375,"end":173.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.75909375,"end":175.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.34534375,"end":177.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.39971875,"end":179.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.32346875000002,"end":182.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.20909375000002,"end":185.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.56721875000002,"end":200.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.06284375,"end":201.70409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.78846875000002,"end":205.58534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.44596875000002,"end":210.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.71534375000002,"end":212.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.70659375000002,"end":215.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.67221875,"end":233.76659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.07034375,"end":236.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.80409375000002,"end":242.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.27159375000002,"end":247.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.73471875,"end":254.84346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.53159375,"end":252.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.94471875000002,"end":259.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.68659375000004,"end":268.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.95096875,"end":275.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.92034375000003,"end":280.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.54409375,"end":282.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.90659375,"end":293.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.24659375000005,"end":295.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.41096875,"end":296.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.06471875,"end":298.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.93784375,"end":299.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.96721875000003,"end":318.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.07409375000003,"end":321.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.56721875,"end":323.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.37284375,"end":344.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.42284375,"end":328.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.59971875,"end":330.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.18159375000005,"end":332.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.45159375000003,"end":332.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.59784375000004,"end":341.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.19659375000003,"end":349.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.00159375000004,"end":353.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.47784375000003,"end":355.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.38471875000005,"end":360.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.30784375,"end":373.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.35659375,"end":374.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.38159375000004,"end":375.90471875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.889,"end":10.13,"text":"好謝謝主席我請入委會主委主委主委好這個中國的重慶公安局說要對沈博洋委員我們中華民國立法委員沈博洋進行立案偵查立案調查中國的央視發布影片"},{"start":32.12,"end":39.534,"text":"說這個沈博洋說要威脅全球抓捕沈博洋剛剛蘇曉慧委員我認為他指出的非常清楚明確這原來啊"},{"start":42.421,"end":57.657,"text":"不是法律戰這是新戰是這個完全是漁業這個文明法治的底線他就如同一個天朝律令一樣我想這也是跨國鎮壓最好的案例我們會在國際上他的目的呢中國就是要用政府國家的力量來恐嚇威脅外國的公民"},{"start":66.065,"end":71.149,"text":"而這件事情它可能不只發生在沈博洋身上可能發生在我們台灣每一位公民身上而它不只發生在沈博洋身上它正在發生在其他國家包括國會議員身上所以中國的這個新戰它的威脅恐嚇是針對全世界民主國家在發動攻擊的"},{"start":89.36,"end":108.031,"text":"這個新戰荒謬到什麼程度呢央視發布影片之外現在中國還有一個網站上面說這個沈伯陽的沈伯陽因為是台獨份子所以呢他的兒子要去瑞士申請學校被拒絕沈伯陽因為是台獨份子所以沈伯陽的女兒要去英國念學校也被拒絕"},{"start":109.727,"end":117.111,"text":"哇 拜託一下聽說中國的情報工作做得很整密請來看加開臨時會我們在立法院我跟沈伯陽委員黃婕委員的直播沈伯陽沒有兒子啊沈伯陽的女兒還沒念小學啊而且就讀在就是我們台北市的學校這麼荒謬的言論竟然可以透過中國的網站鋪天蓋地的在造謠就是在呈現什麼我要讓其他人心裡害怕如果你們敢跟沈伯陽一樣"},{"start":139.344,"end":143.612,"text":"捍衛中華民國主權的話 哇 你的兒子出國念書可能都會被拒絕荒謬至極 那我要講的是不只針對台灣"},{"start":148.605,"end":155.07,"text":"這個美國自由私家2月發布報告去年一整年中國是全世界進行跨國鎮壓最大宗的國家全世界160件中國就大宗英國國會的人權委員會也指出了去年跨境鎮壓的案件增加了48%非常多近五成而中國就是全世界跨境鎮壓主要威脅的來源中國畫面到什麼程度在日本中國住大阪的"},{"start":178.405,"end":182.147,"text":"總理是薛劍因為高市早苗首相在發表言論挺台言論所以呢這個薛劍他竟然大言不慚非常失禮的說要斬首日本首相他使用什麼文字他說那種骯髒的頭就應該毫不猶豫斬掉這是中國的外交官在日本對日本的首相"},{"start":206.479,"end":215.471,"text":"大言不慚非常失禮的行為日本的國會議員說這個已經是在恐嚇了甚至有議員要求政府應該立刻把他遣足出境"},{"start":216.721,"end":232.297,"text":"那麼在紐西蘭中國駐紐西蘭的大使王小龍因為紐西蘭的國會議員出席我們台灣中華民國的國慶酒會竟然在紐西蘭的中國大使擔感寫信給多名的紐西蘭國會議員訓斥他們說他們不准參加台灣國慶"},{"start":236.783,"end":239.244,"text":"紐西蘭的外交部部長公開說這個中國大使毫無民主觀念所以呢對於中國現在威脅沈伯陽說要全球抓捕這種跨境鎮壓的威脅以及非常多不禮貌的言論跟行為陸委會你們的態度是什麼是我們的態度其實跟委員很多的主張都是一致的"},{"start":259.793,"end":287.272,"text":"我們認為這是對台灣的一個認知作戰對台灣的心理戰特別是在恫嚇跟分化我們台灣所以面對這樣我們首先就是不分朝野國人要團結一致 一致對外譴責這種跨境鎮壓同時對於被涉及到的不管是我們的國軍官兵不管是我們的政務官或者是我們的守護台灣的人我們都應該來幫忙他 保護他 協助他"},{"start":289.674,"end":317.475,"text":"不要配合中共对他的施压这个都是非常重要那当然我们如何的做好国际的这个说明中国的这个对外这个跨境镇压特别是针对我们国人的部分我们要把这个实力跟国际来说明像刚刚委员提了好几个例子包括纽西兰日本的例子这个目前就是国际社会非常重视的案子"},{"start":318.215,"end":329.339,"text":"沒有錯 中國現在已經是世界級的流氓全球的Troublemaker台灣是努力在全世界跟民主盟友做朋友所以這條路我們要繼續走下去而國內的團結更加重要中國對台灣最嚴重的威脅就是2005年試圖用反分裂法來恐嚇威脅台灣當時台灣人是上百萬人上街頭我那年我是大學生我也去上街了"},{"start":344.665,"end":357.028,"text":"因為我們要向國際社會表現台灣團結的決心因為我們內部分裂互相吵架這是中國最想看到的所以我在這裡要再次譴責台灣最大在野黨的主席鄭麗文竟然在國內去祭拜共匪敵我不分連自己國民黨黨人都看不下去了我希望我們要持續的來團結展現出台灣守護民主在世界上面我們是優良的模範生的決心謝謝主委謝謝委員"},{"start":375.418,"end":375.998,"text":"謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165299","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165299","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe38740205eae75d3cab3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5c7c5064231c774fdb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"10:56:46 - 11:05:38","影片長度":"00:08:52","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:56:46+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:05:38+08:00","duration":532,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.08471875,"end":8.907218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.34596875,"end":10.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.644718750000003,"end":15.353468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.353468750000001,"end":36.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.39659375,"end":60.03846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.90659375,"end":40.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.91909375,"end":41.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.34221875,"end":61.439093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.23221875,"end":62.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.299718750000004,"end":64.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.59909375,"end":67.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.68284375,"end":67.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.91909375,"end":75.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.01096875,"end":75.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.49596875,"end":76.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.89659375000001,"end":79.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.68096875,"end":84.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.80284375000001,"end":84.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.55784375,"end":84.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.60846875,"end":93.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.26971875000001,"end":92.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.90659375,"end":125.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.35721875,"end":135.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.98971875,"end":130.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.37721875,"end":133.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.85784375,"end":136.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.54971875,"end":138.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.08096875,"end":151.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.19284375,"end":175.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.13846875000002,"end":176.94846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.01596875,"end":177.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.06659375,"end":191.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.04784375,"end":189.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.24159375000002,"end":241.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.33909375000002,"end":243.04784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.36409375000002,"end":277.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.60409375,"end":248.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.06346875,"end":281.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.13471875,"end":305.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.53159375,"end":311.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.03721875,"end":312.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.55596875000003,"end":312.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.48409375,"end":316.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.21346875,"end":318.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.81659375000004,"end":321.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.87096875000003,"end":323.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.32221875000005,"end":323.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.06471875,"end":326.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.12346875000003,"end":327.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.69284375,"end":328.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.97534375000004,"end":329.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.66284375000004,"end":331.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.86096875000004,"end":332.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.89034375,"end":334.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.72971875,"end":336.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.80534375,"end":341.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.07034375,"end":348.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.79534375000003,"end":346.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.52096875,"end":350.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.76534375,"end":350.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.60909375,"end":371.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.24596875000003,"end":352.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.27784375000005,"end":365.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.19659375000003,"end":372.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.29784375,"end":372.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.56346875,"end":378.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.08221875000004,"end":374.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.55409375000005,"end":381.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.46909375,"end":383.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.10596875000005,"end":392.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.89409375,"end":390.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.15971875,"end":391.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.45909375,"end":394.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.82159375000003,"end":395.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.83846875,"end":394.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.34471875,"end":463.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.81971875000005,"end":406.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.93784375,"end":407.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.10221875,"end":408.47346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.63096875,"end":427.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.34659375,"end":474.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.43346875000003,"end":486.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.31784375,"end":495.16034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.10534375000003,"end":518.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.0890937500001,"end":529.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.20721875,"end":519.9834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.3503437500001,"end":521.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.8640937499999,"end":531.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.96909375,"end":531.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.96471875,"end":532.97721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.093,"end":10.195,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請邱主委邱主委主委好我剛剛在這裡也是聽到您這個備詢的這樣的狀況我認為是這樣子就是說其實剛剛諸位委員其實一直在質疑您的就是他們認為陸委會是不是是一種對中國是完全採取不交流不接觸這樣的態度"},{"start":36.734,"end":40.417,"text":"你在在的否認嘛 對不對好 沒有錯吧 是剛剛是這樣嘛好 那我認為是這樣子因為其實我剛剛聽到這整個狀況啊應該是說你認為現在我們並沒有拒絕和中國互動往來完全是因為中國給我們設了一個前提你可以再說一次這個前提是什麼嗎"},{"start":60.39,"end":83.879,"text":"是 跟委員報告為什麼不去的前 中國設的前提我們當然希望跟中國大陸進行良性互動對共同來促進台海的和平穩定跟繁榮這個對我們來 兩岸都有所所以他的前提但是他的前提我們只要跟他官方互動他一定要接受他一中原則或是九二共識所以中華民國就不存在了對你剛剛就這樣說嘛是"},{"start":86.74,"end":90.782,"text":"對 可是我剛剛聽到這個整個大家的質詢內容的狀況它會是一個這樣子一個不斷的循環就像中國你為什麼不去跟中國交流因為中國說要跟他交流之前必須先承認一中也就是中華民國就消滅了然後他就繼續會告訴你說那你就是大張旗鼓的維持尊嚴的去到他那裡跟他談我是中華民國我要尊嚴"},{"start":110.732,"end":120.76,"text":"那可是問題是中國就是要先你不承認中華民國你已經中華民國不存在你世界上只有一個中華人民共和國他才要讓你上去啊那你就是去那上面再跟他說這個我們中華民國存在主委看起來你現在面臨的是一個這樣的狀況因為如果這個論述你沒有對應這個論述的真正的話我看你的預算可能會守不住喔"},{"start":136.873,"end":150.707,"text":"委員講得很好委員有提到有些委員把不交流的一些責任都歸諸在我們政府身上這不公平的事實上委員講得好就是說製造交流的障礙是"},{"start":152.368,"end":179.565,"text":"對岸 路方造成的啦我們都願意在對等尊嚴進行健康有序的交流這是我們的政策剛剛我們羅密蘇蘭也講到如果說在這個原則下我們應該在觀光客在學生的交流方面來啟動共同追求一個和平共榮的目標這也都是我們賴總統所接觸的兩岸政策但是是對岸設置的這個片面的障礙"},{"start":180.325,"end":190.411,"text":"使我們沒有辦法進行這種正常的交流而把沒辦法正常進行的這個交流歸入於現在我們的政府這不公平全世界都認為這是很不公平的事是 我認為其實現在台灣社會的主流意見在經過這麼多的震盪之後其實中華民國 中華民國 台灣台灣就是我們現在最大的一個共識"},{"start":203.479,"end":206.821,"text":"我們是一個主權獨立的國家我們在這裡有我們自己的制度這個是我們絕大多數人都認同的共識就是在這裡所以剛剛在說的你後面到底有沒有觀光客要來啊這個兩岸的產業能不能夠互動啊等等等等其實就是要建立在我們可以自己把自己的國家保護好的狀況之下嘛"},{"start":226.514,"end":241.583,"text":"所以中國讓我們過去的前提就是要先自己承認自己不存在不存在在這個世界上這件事情一定要讓更多的國人了解所有後面的題目都是跟前面這個他要求你先承認你自己不存在才有後面"},{"start":244.4,"end":249.824,"text":"這件事情我覺得應該要讓社會更了解所以比如說好了我們今天其實我本來要問你的是這個這個中國央視的發布剛剛也有很多人提到的這個起底台獨沈伯陽的這支紀錄片好 而且呢在這支紀錄片裡面其實它最重要的兩個事情第一件事情它就是中國官方要對沈伯陽委員展開全球抓捕全球的抓捕喔就是不是只有在中國進來到你到任何一個地方他都要抓你"},{"start":273.663,"end":284.21,"text":"第二個他最重要的就是在片尾的時候給你加上一句收手吧否則下一個就是你主委你認為這支影片所提到的中國可以有權利對在境外抓捕沈伯陽委員嗎抓捕我們中華民國的立法委員沈伯陽委員嗎這是我的第一個問題"},{"start":296.758,"end":301.506,"text":"第二個 你認為中國做這一支紀錄片 所謂的紀錄片但事實上根本就不是事實的 偽紀錄片這樣的態度 他到底是想要做什麼"},{"start":306.581,"end":326.728,"text":"跟委員報告他最主要的目的是恫嚇跟分化我們雙手把下一個就是你其實我們每個人都有可能變成什麼樣因為我們閱讀過審讀22條你如果不支持中國的對台政策的話你很可能就是被法律是違反他們的審讀22條他就可以對你立案調查他就可以"},{"start":330.894,"end":345.107,"text":"終身追訴然後長臂管轄無眼佛界甚至可以判處死刑缺席審判沒收財產連累家人一連串的這種跨境鎮壓這是國人要凝聚共識"},{"start":346.128,"end":354.536,"text":"來反對 來譴責這種行為所以很顯然的這是一支新戰的影片嘛新戰的影片他是在製造恐懼啊把你這些作為可能都是犯罪所以我可以全球抓捕你而且就抓你回中國這是他要達到的效果好 那我們就剛剛問的第一個問題其實是主委 中國有這種權利嗎中國可以有這樣的境外嗎中國可以透過國際刑警組織和跨境司法合作來抓捕沈伯陽委員嗎主持人說這樣嗎"},{"start":372.751,"end":394.606,"text":"他發布這個影片反而是我們進行國際溝通一個很好的題材中國大陸在國際社會要抓捕政治犯讓中國的形象讓中國他不僅是對我們跨境鎮壓他也可能對全世界各國展開這種跨境鎮壓我們要把這個台灣的事情讓國際社會都了解"},{"start":395.467,"end":408.294,"text":"很好這是第一個讓國際社會更了解中國的無理性但是我們如果從法律層面上面來講以實體上面來講罪名的狀況影片中間提到的一切其實都沒有具體的證據啊通通沒有具體的證據只是一直強調傷害中國人的感情"},{"start":411.195,"end":413.817,"text":"請問這是什麼樣的罪名程序問題來講的話中國能不能夠做這些境外的逮捕追緝其實取決於中國跟各國的司法相關的引渡條例啊但是引渡條例不能夠針對政治犯啊所以中國常常都是會用什麼洗錢啊等等給你安一些這些罪名他才能進行這樣做引渡嘛"},{"start":433.129,"end":451.374,"text":"所以不管是從實體或者是程序中國其實都不能夠像影片所述的直接就是全球追捕沈伯陽委員所以到最後他用一個不存在的事實來做一個不存在的罪名做一個不可能的行為其實最重要他只是想要告訴你 收手吧"},{"start":451.974,"end":474.452,"text":"下一個可能就是你喔就是這樣的新戰作用嘛所以我認為其實陸委會最重要的事情比起剛剛的這樣說我個人認為其實最重要的事情是我們要想辦法讓台灣我們所有的國民能夠了解自己的處境我們在跟中國交往的困境其實就是一他要你先承認你的國家不存在"},{"start":475.533,"end":478.817,"text":"才有機會去談判才有機會會進行官方的對話就是這麼簡單嘛第二他就是要你怕要你對他不能講任何的壞話否則就對你進行全球追捕終身追溯我本人也是啦我本人也是在名單上面的一個啦所以這個"},{"start":496.175,"end":515.327,"text":"主委我是期待齁這次的我們的預算審查的時候就這個部分能夠有更剛剛有些委員說要有質化的啊量化的指標啊那你就把這些量化的指標到底有多少人來申請多少人是因為他們不來的等等的如果可以提出一些更具體的數字我覺得可以更促進國人了解我們現在真實的困境謝謝委員好我們全力以赴也感謝委員剛剛對這個案子的非常"},{"start":526.388,"end":529.714,"text":"週前的這種說明我們就一起加油謝謝蘇巧惠委員的質詢"}]}},{"id":"165298","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165298","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3b762d1245f158e23b3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5c7c5064231c774fdb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"10:46:27 - 10:56:37","影片長度":"00:10:10","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:46:27+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:56:37+08:00","duration":610,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.114093750000002,"end":11.168468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.029093750000001,"end":12.771593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.41221875,"end":18.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.15471875,"end":19.032218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.33596875,"end":25.562843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.17034375,"end":28.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.05596875,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.60846875,"end":33.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.017218750000005,"end":35.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.53596875,"end":38.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.06284375,"end":43.838468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.87221875,"end":46.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.454093750000006,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.13971875,"end":64.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.860968750000005,"end":72.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.96471875,"end":76.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.26784375000001,"end":79.64721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.89596875000001,"end":83.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.79846875000001,"end":85.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.50721875,"end":85.53659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.53659375000001,"end":88.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.94971875,"end":89.35034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.33784375,"end":92.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.54409375,"end":94.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.34096875,"end":96.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.19721875,"end":104.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.95221875,"end":99.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.01034375,"end":106.79909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.28846875,"end":112.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.80659375,"end":119.26971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.75909375,"end":147.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.84346875000001,"end":121.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.54784375,"end":153.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.31909375,"end":163.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.38659375,"end":154.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.93909375,"end":156.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.86721875,"end":157.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.46159375000002,"end":162.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.95909375000002,"end":168.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.66346875000002,"end":165.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.03846875000002,"end":170.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.17721875,"end":172.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.26159375,"end":174.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.86034375,"end":174.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.65346875,"end":177.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.68721875,"end":174.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.13846875000002,"end":176.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.04534375,"end":180.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.39096875,"end":184.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.86284375000002,"end":213.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.67596875,"end":195.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.88784375,"end":214.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.76534375,"end":216.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.43159375000002,"end":236.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.90534375000001,"end":239.33534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.60534375,"end":259.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.43346875000003,"end":263.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.22596875,"end":264.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.18784375,"end":267.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.93846875,"end":271.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.80284375,"end":272.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.47784375000003,"end":275.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.37596875,"end":286.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.41659375,"end":289.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.51721875000004,"end":296.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.54159375,"end":298.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.00534375,"end":299.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.06846875,"end":301.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.32971875000004,"end":303.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.91159375,"end":305.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.87346875000003,"end":306.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.75096875,"end":310.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.47596875,"end":313.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.88909375000003,"end":314.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.74971875,"end":320.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.76159375000003,"end":322.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.75721875,"end":321.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.68096875000003,"end":328.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.55346875000004,"end":336.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.18971875,"end":337.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.17659375,"end":343.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.27721875000003,"end":345.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.09534375000004,"end":353.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.82909375,"end":347.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.81159375000004,"end":351.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.43971875,"end":362.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.49034375,"end":355.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.12659375000004,"end":360.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.48471875,"end":368.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.15471875000003,"end":369.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.04909375,"end":380.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.75221875,"end":380.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.89971875000003,"end":383.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.61659375000005,"end":388.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.06721875000005,"end":394.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.48034375000003,"end":391.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.72909375,"end":393.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.22659375,"end":395.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.07034375,"end":405.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.87159375000005,"end":399.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.48659375000005,"end":409.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.16096875000005,"end":411.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.69659375000003,"end":429.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.80159375000005,"end":416.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.71096875,"end":431.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.52909375,"end":430.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.98034375000003,"end":435.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.49034375,"end":436.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.54096875000005,"end":436.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.82346875,"end":437.22846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.22846875000005,"end":440.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.87346875000003,"end":445.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.04159375,"end":455.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.36221875,"end":445.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.54221875,"end":465.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.55034375,"end":456.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.15221875000003,"end":475.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.54721875,"end":481.10346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.20471875000004,"end":497.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.74034375,"end":486.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.22346875000005,"end":504.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.56034375,"end":501.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.56846875,"end":502.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.86346875000004,"end":507.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.75346875,"end":509.23409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.04409375000006,"end":526.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.8059687500001,"end":522.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.83534375,"end":523.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.6953437500001,"end":531.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.79659375,"end":528.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.0872187500001,"end":535.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.49596875,"end":536.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.45346875,"end":544.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.9465937500001,"end":541.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.1359687500001,"end":545.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.75596875,"end":545.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.0047187499999,"end":546.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.8315937500001,"end":553.3115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.36221875,"end":556.6359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.72471875,"end":557.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.73284375,"end":558.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.3403437500001,"end":569.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.3728437500001,"end":577.7803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.79409375,"end":571.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.52721875,"end":578.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.26971875,"end":578.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.55659375,"end":579.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.9953437500001,"end":579.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.7040937500001,"end":584.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.6359687500001,"end":588.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.2009687500001,"end":589.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.9853437500001,"end":593.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.5122187500001,"end":597.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.4778437500001,"end":596.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.8828437500001,"end":597.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.08534375,"end":597.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.1697187500001,"end":597.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.37221875,"end":604.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.56096875,"end":604.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.8815937500001,"end":605.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.8984687500001,"end":604.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.69159375,"end":607.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.88534375,"end":607.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.90221875,"end":610.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.2734687500001,"end":608.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.0578437500001,"end":611.58096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.369,"end":12.638,"text":"好謝謝主席本席有請邱主委邱主委"},{"start":17.501,"end":45.886,"text":"徐委好主委好主委本席刚提早到听到您有回答前面的委员说您这个也很乐见我们的海基会董事长吴董事长去大陆交流那本席很好奇你身为陆委会主委你怎么不率先破冰之旅和平之旅你就率先去大陆交流"},{"start":46.499,"end":66.622,"text":"跟委員報告如果是對等尊嚴兩岸有需要人民支持我們當然這是我們職責所在不過截至目前為止中國大陸還是要求我們必須答應他的政治前提那這個前提前提是我們要接受他一個中國原則的九二共識"},{"start":67.583,"end":94.444,"text":"在这个框架里面没有中华民国存在的空间我们无法答应这种消灭中华民国并吞台湾的政治前提所以你可以过去跟他们反映啊所以你有提过要过去吗没有嘛你没有提出过在各式各样的交流活动他都必须把政治前提放在前头所以你就去好好跟他谈嘛"},{"start":95.89,"end":119.047,"text":"對不對軟硬的話都可以講啊甚至您可以帶沈伯陽委員過去澄清一些誤會也不錯啊對不對所以我們的陸委會不跟大陸做任何的互動交流這是很奇怪的一件事從我們第一會期這一屆第一會期我們就一直講所以你看大家都覺得陸委會可以裁撤啦"},{"start":119.807,"end":147.585,"text":"那你们有讲你现在所做的都是一些台商的事所以本席也觉得那我们陆委会就变成什么台商协助会就好了根本不需要有一个跟各部会同等的位阶的陆委会因为你根本都没有去交流接着这个是刚刚本席听到你回复但我们很希望你可以去你代表我们中华民国台湾我们的尊严"},{"start":148.632,"end":170.403,"text":"可以然後去你表達我們嚴正的立場我們都支持你我也認同你啊對等尊嚴但是你都三不政策對不對不接觸不交流完全不互動我們還是要推動這個健康有序的交流讓兩岸能夠和平穩定健康有序的交流請主委你做起"},{"start":171.192,"end":185.471,"text":"是我們一直在推動你帶頭來做嘛好不好我們希望這樣不然其實陸委會我們這一會其實又要審預算了那陸委會我們不知道你所做的事你密切注意我看你的那個報告裡面"},{"start":186.572,"end":206.048,"text":"你做的事情都是paperwork或者是你就是在這邊靜靜的沒有靜靜的我們做了大量的努力所以可能陸委會也許可以考慮轉型不用成為部會它就是一個台商協助會或是什麼我們也有需要協助我們台商"},{"start":206.909,"end":216.358,"text":"但是如果您愿意跨出这个两岸破冰两岸和平之旅那我们全力支持你是谢谢委员那再来就是我们"},{"start":217.489,"end":235.965,"text":"看到有一个联合报的最新民调八成八的民众认为两岸沟通管道不可中断这当然也是呼应刚刚前面我所请教您的那民进党执政至今呢我们看到两岸的很多的沟通显然无效我们现在具体的来看"},{"start":237.206,"end":258.324,"text":"過去簽的26項協議慘不忍睹 非常的慘不忍睹首先在司法互助的方面我們看到雪崩式下跌我方要求遣返2076人結果陸方只送回512人我們的政府功能不髒"},{"start":259.565,"end":271.393,"text":"那再来ECFA的经贸急速降温这个整个双双崩跌那再来观光交流也是大幅下滑"},{"start":290.558,"end":314.074,"text":"一間一間關起來現在都幾乎關掉了然後老街也都帶動不了整個的觀光這個都跟陸委會的這個業務影響很大所以這一個部分主委這個數據也在在顯示您真的需要率先再去開啟兩岸的交流可以嗎"},{"start":314.793,"end":335.062,"text":"跟委員報告 兩岸目前交流的障礙都不是我們造成的都是別人 專門檢討別人剛剛委員所說的兩岸目前剩下的協議有26項 我也很專業但是我們陸委會我們的同仁幾乎定期在每一項協議都在盤點 都在精進我們跟對岸整個就是冰凍"},{"start":341.265,"end":368.047,"text":"沒有那是對岸所造成的這個片面的這個脅迫我想大家都很清楚啦那再來就還有一點時間本席一定要特別針對我們不管陸委會再怎麼不作為我們現在面臨的我們的民眾人流的安全還有我們產業的這個所受到的威脅這兩塊本席也要特別在今天特別提出來"},{"start":369.229,"end":394.508,"text":"我们人生两岸交流啊人生安全官方不交流那我们民间倒是交流的等于我们的民众过去是蛮频繁的不管是这个有一些我们企业派驻的人员或是我们这个观光的我想您也很清楚所以人生安全是我们最重要也是我们最重视的那我想请教您啊"},{"start":395.488,"end":411.361,"text":"對於我們人流安全風險上升陸委會對國人旅遊或是企業派駐人員的法律與保險協助有沒有強化到足以應付他們複合式的一些脅迫的程度"},{"start":411.775,"end":417.2,"text":"是委員提到這個很重要我們也在關注請你簡答我時間不多我們從去年到現在有233件這一種人身安全的風險那我們也持續透過既有的管道跟對岸去反應必須要落實踐行他們的司法人權我這邊很好你講到重點現在這邊打"},{"start":432.454,"end":460.922,"text":"打住喔你的管道就是發傳真不是不是開記者會不是我們現在陸委會呢人道救援這個我們看到喔就是只留於發傳真跟開記者會沒有 我們還是協調各部會在進行跟中國大陸的共同打擊犯罪與司法互助合作的機制下在跟他們講欸 有共打 有共打你們的這個在互動上你們的共打機制好像沒有很好欸"},{"start":461.622,"end":465.132,"text":"因為本席聽到很多我們國人遭遇一些"},{"start":466.22,"end":490.875,"text":"是一種您所說的一些類似的處境我聽到的是他們拜託陸委會、海基會不要介入不要開記者會好像會越幫越忙這個行為就表示對陸委會最直接的投下反對票跟委員報告所以陸委會真的要真正能夠發揮功能就好像懲徒二十二條我們國人啊 負入遭到的人身風險"},{"start":491.835,"end":507.412,"text":"我們就是要不斷的透過機制我們相關的部會也在積極努力當中好啦 人道救援絕對是我們國家最基本的任務也是我們人民最後的期盼是我們政府不能只有發傳真根沒有沒有沒有我們積極的來協助最後最後有關產業的部分"},{"start":510.086,"end":526.62,"text":"主委你有沒有發現大陸塑化中堅原料像尼龍纖維人造絲等產品長期利用他們的超額產能對我國基礎工業產生了低價傾銷的威脅那針對這個部分你們有沒有量化"},{"start":527.731,"end":557.092,"text":"对台湾基础工业的倾销风险有没有量化是委员你讲这个非常重要中国大陆在这种传统我说的都很重要你们有没有做有有有这个非常严重过度的倾销我们台湾造成我们台湾传统产业像我们的台塑利利这些企业是大家应该知道我们如果一旦崩溃会造成多少数万家庭生计的风险是我们了解你们电话指标有做吗"},{"start":557.788,"end":581.363,"text":"是我們這方面我們跟我們的經濟部門還有產業各單位都有積極的在協處避免受到中國大陸的一定要跟相關單位你們盡快展開調查才可以而且要盡快的做這個速度啊你們所做的速度就是我們產業的生命線所以了解你這個部分你今天講不出一個"},{"start":582.823,"end":591.745,"text":"一個重點我們各部門都已經展開行動對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸對於中國大陸"}]}},{"id":"165297","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165297","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe33454b63d0fd62bf1b3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5c7c5064231c774fdb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝龍介","委員發言時間":"10:37:28 - 10:46:17","影片長度":"00:08:49","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:37:28+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:46:17+08:00","duration":529,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.45159375,"end":11.185343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11.590343750000002,"end":14.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.33971875,"end":23.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.17909375,"end":29.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.346593750000004,"end":38.134718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.57346875,"end":39.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.02034375,"end":42.454718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.876593750000005,"end":46.656593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.68659375,"end":44.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.92659375,"end":49.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.53784375,"end":51.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.562843750000006,"end":55.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.66784375,"end":56.781593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.96721875,"end":58.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.40971875,"end":63.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.17284375,"end":69.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.02846875,"end":71.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.12034375,"end":78.11159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.97221875000001,"end":79.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.01846875000001,"end":82.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.83659375,"end":86.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.13159375000001,"end":85.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.18159375,"end":90.81846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.30346875000001,"end":101.58471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.09096875,"end":108.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.38534375,"end":111.62534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.32534375,"end":116.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.60346875,"end":117.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.62409375000001,"end":121.32846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.85159375,"end":122.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.23096875,"end":125.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":124.45034375,"end":126.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.82971875000001,"end":131.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.95971875,"end":133.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.47846875000002,"end":136.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.46534375000002,"end":140.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.48159375,"end":141.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.55721875,"end":143.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.90284375000002,"end":148.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.45909375000002,"end":152.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.83409375000002,"end":155.77034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.97284375,"end":158.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.11159375,"end":161.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.50346875,"end":163.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.71846875,"end":164.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.67596875,"end":167.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.95409375,"end":171.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.78471875000002,"end":173.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.18096875,"end":174.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.83471875,"end":177.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.14659375000002,"end":178.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.07471875000002,"end":181.89284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.31471875000003,"end":183.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.62659375,"end":185.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.50409375,"end":186.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.49971875,"end":186.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.20846875,"end":188.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.18721875,"end":190.75221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.81534375,"end":194.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.88659375,"end":195.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.79784375,"end":198.36284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.49346875,"end":201.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.78846875000002,"end":204.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.63596875000002,"end":207.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.25159375,"end":208.58909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.02784375000002,"end":212.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.48721875,"end":215.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.21221875,"end":219.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.03034375000001,"end":222.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.73034375,"end":223.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.14784375000002,"end":225.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.04596875000001,"end":229.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.04159375,"end":229.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.83034375000003,"end":231.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.96096875,"end":235.48784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.50471875000002,"end":236.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.90971875000002,"end":237.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.23846875,"end":240.51659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.63471875000002,"end":241.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.61346875,"end":242.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.25034375,"end":244.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.29221875000002,"end":248.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.73471875,"end":252.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.90284375000002,"end":253.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.59471875000003,"end":254.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.06284375,"end":258.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.50534375,"end":262.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.85909375,"end":265.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.89659375,"end":267.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.63471875,"end":271.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.53284375000004,"end":278.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.65096875,"end":272.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.04721875,"end":274.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.16096875,"end":282.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.85659375,"end":280.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.96159375,"end":285.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.63221875,"end":284.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.67409375,"end":287.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.64846875,"end":287.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.66534375000003,"end":294.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.68221875,"end":289.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.61409375,"end":295.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.00596875,"end":305.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.55409375,"end":300.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.48096875000005,"end":307.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":307.81409375000004,"end":308.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.38784375,"end":308.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.16409375,"end":310.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.25659375000004,"end":312.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.06221875,"end":314.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.79596875000004,"end":318.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.96846875,"end":319.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.30159375,"end":320.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.63471875000005,"end":323.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.52034375,"end":325.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":327.13596875,"end":328.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.03034375000004,"end":330.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":328.82346875,"end":329.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":330.78096875,"end":338.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.03721875,"end":338.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":338.69534375,"end":339.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.03284375000004,"end":340.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":341.07471875000005,"end":341.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.10846875000004,"end":343.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":341.12534375,"end":342.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.50034375,"end":346.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":346.37346875000003,"end":346.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.06534375,"end":350.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.76096875,"end":356.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.81909375000004,"end":358.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":359.02971875000003,"end":372.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.65346875,"end":364.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":373.28909375,"end":376.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":376.57971875000004,"end":384.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.20721875000004,"end":384.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":384.24096875000004,"end":386.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.45971875000004,"end":394.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":393.89346875,"end":397.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.40784375000004,"end":399.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.06971875000005,"end":404.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":400.39034375,"end":401.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":404.50784375,"end":419.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.96971875,"end":422.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":422.37846875,"end":422.81721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":422.85096875000005,"end":422.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.86784375,"end":422.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.47534375000004,"end":435.01784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":425.80409375000005,"end":426.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.87846875,"end":439.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.23221875,"end":442.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.72971875,"end":445.53096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.00346875,"end":446.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.86409375000005,"end":448.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.51346875,"end":450.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.64409375,"end":453.12471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.64784375000005,"end":458.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.30096875000004,"end":461.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":462.20346875,"end":462.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":463.04721875,"end":471.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.07971875000004,"end":472.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":472.26096875,"end":475.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.63221875000005,"end":479.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":479.78721875,"end":480.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.90534375000004,"end":484.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.29284375000003,"end":484.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":485.17034375000003,"end":486.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.55846875000003,"end":487.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.85346875000005,"end":488.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.08534375000005,"end":496.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.11784375,"end":499.98659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":497.16846875000005,"end":497.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.49284375,"end":502.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.29846875000004,"end":503.36159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":502.33221875000004,"end":504.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":504.98159375000006,"end":506.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.65659375,"end":507.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":507.56346875,"end":508.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.86721875,"end":512.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.3684687499999,"end":514.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":514.66784375,"end":515.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":515.66346875,"end":515.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.91659375,"end":516.9797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.4015937500001,"end":518.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.8528437500001,"end":518.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":518.9540937500001,"end":519.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.2409687500001,"end":519.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.3928437500001,"end":521.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.68784375,"end":523.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.0334687500001,"end":527.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":527.74596875,"end":528.47159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.799,"end":14.322,"text":"主席我請董事長跟副董事長請吳董事長還有羅文嘉副董事長董事長你好我先請教那個副董事長羅副董事長你就職到現在"},{"start":39.028,"end":62.339,"text":"剛有去過台六目前沒有 九一到今天都不晚了對OK來很可惜因為那機會是成立的目的當時因為你加班九一嘛你也沒過嘛但是有透過個人"},{"start":64.189,"end":71.57,"text":"的官德 現在是我們本會的官德正式搞到對話有聯繫嗎你開秘密會議我據實報告有嗎開秘密會議我據實報告開秘密會議的時候在 這不可以說啊"},{"start":92.973,"end":120.875,"text":"這個應該不是什麼基本上交流是好事啦但交流本來就有官方有正事跟非正事嘛我剛才報告就是我在過去一年當中多方努力希望恢復對話多方努力希望恢復對話就是跟對方會晤嘛"},{"start":124.461,"end":153.002,"text":"是輝學輝學對話輝學對話那但是結果沒有對到到現在還沒有結果好那就是完全沒有了就對了因為這是很可惜的兩岸成立海基會跟陸委會基本上我們就是走和平的路線才會需要這些單位嘛如果是要站的話基本上那"},{"start":153.632,"end":176.913,"text":"你展現出來是要站那基本上就不必對話那不必對話就不需要我們這個業務單位了很可惜 我知道本縣理解是你跟副當事長個人都有很多人脈在兩岸之間可以貢獻我想如果沒請主委"},{"start":179.129,"end":207.288,"text":"因為他在這裡說的話 他的本人都沒有感受到的就不是這樣嘛你起來 好 他展現出兩岸國防外交就是總統的意志這樣表示他熱情的 總統有下令不接觸 不談判 也不交流這個大大的錯誤嘛交流就可以避免擦槍走火嘛你跟他是民間的交流嘛"},{"start":209.092,"end":215.496,"text":"民間的交流最好可以到政府跟政府機關政府跟政府機關你釋出生意的交流就釋出對等平權嘛啊你就閃閃閃閃 又不會輸給小人的 是在閃什麼閃到美國就不理你當事長你辛苦啦 副當事長"},{"start":230.959,"end":257.983,"text":"你要說什麼剛剛委員所講的很抱歉無法同意不同意的原因我也很清楚講第一個賴總統在就職演說國慶文告講得非常清楚我歡迎跟兩岸對等健康有序交流的承諾永遠不變我們願意從觀光和就學兩個具體的作為來展開第一個所以沒有不交流但我們要對等尊嚴健康有序的交流第一個"},{"start":258.544,"end":280.17,"text":"第二個目前的狀況是你剛才說為什麼董事長和我沒辦法去按照兩會的協定應該制度性往來海基會董事長也好或我個人也好我們都多次的表達我們願意前往在不涉任何政治前提下但是現在問題是他要求我們前往這個前提這不可以接受啦這不可以接受啦這我不同意你的看法是這樣我們不可以接受他的主張啦我沒叫你接受啊"},{"start":287.851,"end":299.7,"text":"對啊 所以我們不可以這麼想啊你靠什麼黨又不同意我是希望民間靠大局我不是這樣啦 事情不是這樣啦我沒有變你就去啊對不對當時我心裡頭 當然需要和平的 希望和平啦去打開這個僵局這樣不就是這麼煩來來 主委來我請問你喔是嗎你在處理這個匯度 台六 你請問什麼"},{"start":315.871,"end":319.633,"text":"恢復這個台六席的這個配額國籍的時候有經過施法定數嗎有經過法院申報嗎你是說 委員是說你開除人家國籍啦喔 國籍法不是陸委會的權責那是內政部的職務那不是都你們辦的嗎那跟我們無關的跟我們無關的啦你們到現在沒議事辦的"},{"start":345.174,"end":352.777,"text":"都不是我們這裡所以包括他在這裡說要顛覆我們的政府還是什麼現在是在你這裡還沒有有多少人已經去開除中華民國的國籍委員是說那個有關於有一些個案 陸配"},{"start":364.707,"end":384.82,"text":"他被取消我們這邊定居啊或是居留的那個因為我們接到那個很多檢舉案我們就依照這個你搬多少啊搬多少啊有經過書法在訂書嗎上次那個雅雅的他們好像有兩個剝削一個人的"},{"start":391.345,"end":396.089,"text":"是戶籍不是國籍我們沒有處理國籍跟委員報告我們是依法我們兩岸條例不管是18條或是大陸人士來台定居留許可辦法相關的條文我們都是用相關的條文依法處理"},{"start":417.705,"end":434.503,"text":"而且當事人也有到行政法院主你主席之前你來拜會的本席是你主席之前四月份來的時候是五月初你看本席說的到你主席之後是羅總統有給你重新的署名就是記者一切的聯絡"},{"start":435.993,"end":461.143,"text":"所以做生意一年半以來 大家是適當對待我們所謂主管的部分這不用懷疑啦 這就是沒變的嘛但是在立場堅定的情形下 有什麼一點突破就沒有完全不去做到這種突破 你做了六一會主委 你有什麼說法"},{"start":462.25,"end":482.727,"text":"委員我們願意不斷的突破包括我們也希望兩岸能夠健康有序的交流我們海基會也希望有機會能夠探視我們的大陸台商過去十幾年來所有的交流都沒有健康的你現在要希望健康的交流過去的交流都沒有健康過去的交流都沒有重點"},{"start":489.281,"end":496.124,"text":"所以你現在就是要有健康 有尊嚴 比較要風來嘛 啊我們比較要去嘛你甚至限制我們的人 盡量不要去包括什麼宗教改的 廟徽的 叫人家佩服他們 要去 要了解風險啦風險 我比你更了解的啦 兩方多風險 美國和台中說了怎樣 我們就更風險"},{"start":513.411,"end":523.022,"text":"都要考慮了嘛用善意可以化解敵意用敵意針對敵意當敵意上升的時候就是台灣陷入險境的時候了謝謝你謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"165296","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165296","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe312b0db6cf2e66c4cb3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5c0a24d4c92cf601975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"10:27:01 - 10:37:18","影片長度":"00:10:17","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:27:01+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:37:18+08:00","duration":617,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.544718750000001,"end":7.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.215343750000002,"end":9.109718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.582218750000003,"end":10.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.185343750000001,"end":12.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.872218750000002,"end":17.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.766593750000002,"end":20.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.68159375,"end":24.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.617843750000002,"end":26.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.879093750000003,"end":30.574718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.69284375,"end":36.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.987218750000004,"end":40.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.66159375,"end":42.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.36596875,"end":47.297843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.31096875,"end":44.867843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.85471875,"end":48.782843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.01909375,"end":51.432218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.58409375,"end":60.03846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.055343750000006,"end":62.99159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.87346875,"end":64.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.953468750000006,"end":68.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.79659375,"end":68.88096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.91471875,"end":68.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.96534375,"end":70.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.99909375,"end":69.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.63596875,"end":72.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.03659375000001,"end":72.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.13784375,"end":72.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.88034375000001,"end":73.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.23471875,"end":73.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.82534375,"end":76.01909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.15409375,"end":77.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.19596875,"end":79.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.71471875,"end":80.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.81159375,"end":81.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.97596875,"end":83.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.25409375000001,"end":85.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.36784375,"end":86.14409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.46471875,"end":87.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.73034375,"end":91.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.29096875,"end":95.44221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.21909375,"end":92.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.74596875,"end":102.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.44534375,"end":108.72284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.41471875,"end":111.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.06846875000001,"end":114.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.29596875,"end":114.15659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.57846875000001,"end":118.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.15221875,"end":119.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.57346875,"end":119.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.56909375000001,"end":129.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.32721875000001,"end":131.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.99784375000002,"end":131.43659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.95971875,"end":134.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.86221875,"end":136.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.98846875,"end":137.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.05596875,"end":139.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.60409375,"end":142.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.30784375000002,"end":145.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.23596875,"end":147.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.50596875000002,"end":147.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.10909375,"end":148.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.90221875,"end":151.14659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.05784375000002,"end":156.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.11659375000002,"end":156.68159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.93471875,"end":158.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.03971875000002,"end":161.27159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.91284375,"end":164.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.49034375000002,"end":173.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.08096875,"end":166.72221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.64534375000002,"end":173.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.29909375,"end":178.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.03721875000002,"end":176.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.80909375000002,"end":177.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.04534375,"end":178.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.33221875,"end":178.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.41659375,"end":178.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.48409375,"end":179.10846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.76659375,"end":181.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.82096875000002,"end":186.12846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.51659375,"end":188.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.82846875,"end":189.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.12784375,"end":192.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.46096875,"end":192.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.43971875000003,"end":194.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.32534375,"end":198.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.00409375,"end":200.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.53971875000002,"end":200.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.64096875,"end":200.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.70846875,"end":204.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.34971875000002,"end":201.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.98659375000003,"end":203.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.89784375000002,"end":207.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.18409375000002,"end":208.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.31471875000003,"end":212.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.35659375,"end":212.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.65596875,"end":214.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.67284375000003,"end":212.70659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.32221875000002,"end":215.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.18284375000002,"end":216.92534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.26284375,"end":219.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.90409375000002,"end":221.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.14409375000002,"end":224.11409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.17721875,"end":226.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.71284375000002,"end":229.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.74596875,"end":231.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.26909375000002,"end":232.58534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.01159375,"end":232.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.58534375000002,"end":233.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.53034375000001,"end":238.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.54721875,"end":233.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.33971875,"end":238.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.96409375000002,"end":239.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.21721875000003,"end":239.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.99346875,"end":245.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.19096875000002,"end":247.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.24971875000003,"end":247.26659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.26659375000003,"end":247.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.63784375,"end":250.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.67159375000003,"end":247.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.35471875000002,"end":250.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.77659375000002,"end":251.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.73846875,"end":252.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.32909375000003,"end":254.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.55659375000002,"end":256.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.42971875,"end":267.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.30159375,"end":268.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.76971875000004,"end":269.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.54159375,"end":272.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.41034375000004,"end":273.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.01346875,"end":275.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.14409375,"end":275.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.16096875,"end":275.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.17784375,"end":276.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.96659375,"end":278.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.62034375,"end":279.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.95346875,"end":281.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.82659375000003,"end":282.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.87284375,"end":284.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.13409375000003,"end":288.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.37409375000004,"end":288.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.66096875,"end":288.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.86346875000004,"end":288.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.96471875000003,"end":295.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.42034375000003,"end":289.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.52159375,"end":289.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.36034375,"end":297.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.82409375000003,"end":299.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.08534375,"end":300.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.38909375000003,"end":309.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.84409375,"end":305.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.71721875000003,"end":307.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.92346875000004,"end":310.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.94034375,"end":309.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.73346875000004,"end":310.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.93596875000003,"end":312.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.31971875,"end":315.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.53471875,"end":313.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.42471875,"end":315.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.61034375,"end":318.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.89721875000004,"end":316.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.41159375,"end":322.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.52909375,"end":325.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.59659375,"end":323.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.56659375000004,"end":325.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.78596875,"end":327.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.33409375,"end":329.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.56596875,"end":329.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.22409375,"end":331.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.23221875,"end":332.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.14346875,"end":334.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.43846875,"end":339.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.60659375,"end":341.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.15471875000003,"end":343.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.74096875000004,"end":344.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.44534375,"end":346.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.69409375000004,"end":347.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.68534375,"end":349.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.41096875,"end":350.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.09846875,"end":352.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.61721875,"end":354.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.42284375,"end":355.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.95846875,"end":361.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.42596875000004,"end":365.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.16784375000003,"end":368.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.24346875000003,"end":370.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.45409375,"end":371.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.77034375000005,"end":373.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.35221875,"end":377.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.35596875000005,"end":384.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.89909375,"end":388.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.23659375,"end":386.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.43846875,"end":395.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.03659375,"end":400.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.07409375000003,"end":406.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.23346875000004,"end":410.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.23284375000003,"end":412.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.59096875,"end":414.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.11409375000005,"end":415.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.16846875000005,"end":417.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.65346875,"end":421.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.80471875,"end":422.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.95221875000004,"end":425.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.61846875000003,"end":427.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.62659375000004,"end":428.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.62221875,"end":431.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.38971875000004,"end":435.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.67596875000004,"end":436.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.09784375000004,"end":436.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.28346875000005,"end":436.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.40159375,"end":439.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.11034375,"end":438.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.13534375,"end":443.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.57346875,"end":449.78346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.59034375000005,"end":443.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.01971875000004,"end":453.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.20471875000004,"end":459.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.28846875000005,"end":458.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.33471875000004,"end":460.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.64659375,"end":462.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.45221875000004,"end":463.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.02159375,"end":465.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.27034375000005,"end":467.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.31221875000006,"end":468.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.95346875,"end":471.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.97409375,"end":472.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.21034375000005,"end":477.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.40346875000006,"end":478.43721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.43721875000006,"end":497.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.83721875000003,"end":483.88784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.95534375000005,"end":484.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.43846875,"end":498.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.80534375,"end":502.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.44596875,"end":504.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.93096875000003,"end":505.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.01096875,"end":513.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.22159375,"end":508.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.10721875,"end":511.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.3559687500001,"end":517.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.41034375,"end":515.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.95034375,"end":516.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.80659375,"end":521.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.2322187500001,"end":523.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.4597187500001,"end":527.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.3034687500001,"end":524.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.8728437500001,"end":529.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.2478437500001,"end":531.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.74971875,"end":531.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.11659375,"end":540.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.68159375,"end":535.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.3684687500001,"end":541.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.22471875,"end":543.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.67596875,"end":545.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.0047187499999,"end":547.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.86096875,"end":548.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.16471875,"end":550.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.66659375,"end":553.3115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.79284375,"end":552.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.51409375,"end":555.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.7334687499999,"end":555.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.02846875,"end":558.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.2178437499999,"end":561.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.95596875,"end":563.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.58846875,"end":564.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.7022187499999,"end":575.0803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.46846875,"end":588.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.1215937500001,"end":581.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.26409375,"end":587.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.12471875,"end":593.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.32284375,"end":589.9809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.60909375,"end":595.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.4653437500001,"end":598.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.8403437500001,"end":600.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.89909375,"end":602.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.43034375,"end":605.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.37096875,"end":606.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.95721875,"end":608.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.7078437499999,"end":612.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.72846875,"end":615.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.4409687500001,"end":617.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.8584687499999,"end":618.49971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.111,"end":11.876,"text":"謝謝主席 請各位先進有請陸委會的邱主委請邱主委賴委員好你好 我簡單幾個問題想請教這個有關於沈伯陽被通緝的事情"},{"start":27.183,"end":39.921,"text":"兩岸的事情不是賴總統要出面嗎或者你要想一想反制怎麼賴給韓國瑜呢 這很奇怪這邏輯非常奇怪啊這個憲法明明規定兩岸的事務是總統管的怎麼會"},{"start":43.39,"end":61.623,"text":"我請教你如果會有沒有反制的一些方案類似這個事情是 跟委員報告對於中共的跨境鎮壓不管是對沈博洋還是對於我們國軍官兵還是對於服務在我們政府體系的這種恫嚇"},{"start":64.506,"end":83.286,"text":"第一個要展現我們國人團結一心反擊這個中共的立場第二個我們也呼籲我們還是要強調問題的本質他就是來恫嚇跟分化我們所以我們要跟國人說他沒有管轄權我們國人不受到"},{"start":84.367,"end":108.333,"text":"任何的拘束所以我們國人都是安全的但是出國去旅遊這部分我們會跟外交部門來合作避免風險對於赴陸港澳我們也呼籲國人要審慎評估他的安全性畢竟我們從去年到現在已經有233個個案因為刑方不明因為"},{"start":109.457,"end":128.254,"text":"法律被他限制的人身自由所以是呼籲大家不要去港澳囉不是要不是不要去要審慎評估好啦因為我實在是你不用講太多形容詞了齁這個你處理兩岸是不是依據中華民國憲法及兩岸人民關係條例來處理"},{"start":129.495,"end":142.72,"text":"這是我們的基本的法律原則那這樣子的話是不是同意兩岸我們主權互不成立 主不承認 治權互不否認這句話你同意不同意跟委員報告 是當然我們彼此的主權互不隸屬主權互不承認嘛 我說主權互不承認 治權互不否認這句話你同意嗎"},{"start":160.063,"end":181.639,"text":"但是他開始否認啊不是 你同意嗎 我問你嘛 你不要管他嘛你啊 呦呦呦我只是強調我們中華民國是個主權國家台灣從來沒有被中華人民共和國統治過你還是沒有回答我啊我說 主權互不承認兩岸 互不地屬是客觀現實跟台海現狀如果你同時一句話朝野就有很多共識的基礎了主權 兩岸就是主權互不承認治權互不否認你同意嗎"},{"start":190.171,"end":193.592,"text":"我是不同意因為在2019年元月二號習五條他重新定義了這個所謂的九二共識現在他主政他強勢力跟過去這個習以前的這些領導人完全不同我們是說"},{"start":218.001,"end":246.315,"text":"中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬如果你主張一邊一國那陸委會可以裁掉啦陸委會可以裁掉啦陸委會的成立宗旨是跟大陸交流啊對不對我們願意交流啊但是我不能說我願意跟你交流我中華民國就不存在了當然要存在啊 是啊但是他現在的一中原則九二共識就是沒有中華民國存在的空間啊委員你也可以去問對岸"},{"start":247.675,"end":273.223,"text":"在你們的框架裡面我們有存在的空間嗎請問你喔是陸委會不是國防部啊不是戰爭部啊這個你每天喊打喊殺什麼陸委會主委這樣子做的態度呢你要看一看你們海基會兩位大長官坐在那裡他們也希望交流啊我們希望對等尊嚴跟他們也希望交流跟中國大陸進行健康有序的交流你有沒有安排"},{"start":274.084,"end":284.101,"text":"有沒有在努力 最少最少讓海基會的董事長或者秘書長跟海協會的會長或者他的秘書長見面 有沒有"},{"start":285.185,"end":306.376,"text":"跟委員報告我們都在努力突破什麼時候有機會但是中共的僵化思維跟負面作為以目前看起來困難但是我們都在努力突破這是一個很重要的指標你不方便跟宋濤見面但是吳董事長如果跟江志軍會長如果能見面那兩岸就是很大的突破了"},{"start":310.578,"end":326.796,"text":"就是功勞一件啊我們也呼籲對岸要解放思想 實事求治不是 人家問你要不要啊 你也不要啊我們願意啊只要他在對等尊嚴 我們都願意啊我們樂見吳董事長赴陸去做交流啊不這樣子啊 你看喔 你看喔"},{"start":328.379,"end":347.568,"text":"你現在來講對我們去大陸我這裡這個沒有時間講太多了最多的是103年104年那時候還是馬英九執政到500多萬現在呢來台的旅客只有剩100多萬"},{"start":348.752,"end":364.398,"text":"然後呢我們去大陸的原來500多萬現在剩兩三百萬大概250萬左右所以可見的在民進黨執政底下兩岸是緊縮的兩岸是緊張的我們都知道兩岸要和平一方面我們備戰"},{"start":366.209,"end":388.363,"text":"背戰我們絕對支持讓台灣有一定的國防能力沒有人反對但是要避戰的避戰就看你啊結果你現在不是啊你本來是潤滑劑你這個陸委會應該是一個潤滑劑讓兩岸交流可以避戰結果你現在把自己戰狼化沒有跟委員報告其實最"},{"start":389.514,"end":403.898,"text":"需要交流的是陸委會的主張我們需要有健康有序的交流沒有統戰的交流我們也在積極推動兩岸人流的良性互動的交流現在陸委會的觀點裡面我們看了半天你就把交流定為統戰怎麼啪 怎麼啪這樣不是 我們要降低統戰的這種對台灣的傷害如果你按照你的講法所有的交流都是統戰沒有 沒有這回事我舉例 比如說"},{"start":416.561,"end":434.852,"text":"為什麼你讓大陸的學者沒有辦法來台灣你禁止他來台灣跟委員報告這就是天大的冤枉是中國大陸的機構不同意他們的學者來交流我們對於兩岸最理性的人我們都希望透過這個"},{"start":437.394,"end":462.933,"text":"對準交流你核准他來都是比如說他機票是後天結果明天沒有這回事我們對於正常健康有序的正向交流我們都願意提供必要的協助最後一點現在請問我們去大陸的紙航店有幾點目前原有的5個之外再加上10個目前是15個紙航店最多的時候幾個店最多有50個50幾個"},{"start":466.291,"end":481.956,"text":"你可不可以增加一點我們在評估我們也希望最主要是兩岸的人流不多尤其對岸來的人太少因為你不給他來我們願意來是他不願意跟我們努力合作"},{"start":483.897,"end":488.402,"text":"我們的人去年去277萬如果加港澳有加402萬他們才來46萬扣掉從第三地的11萬他來不到30萬所以委員"},{"start":498.872,"end":502.474,"text":"我們是277萬過去 加港澳有402萬這個難道少嗎 他們不來 這是他們所製造的問題啊很多是你技術卡關啊 是他們不願意放人來大陸的大學教授很想來 可是都被你卡關了"},{"start":521.304,"end":540.872,"text":"沒有 這絕對不是事實那委員如果有一些卡關的案子你跟我們講是歸咎於我們你跟我們講幾乎都卡關 因為你核准都是都沒有 跟委員報告我們就希望透過兩岸理性的學者能夠到一起來溝通最後一句話 陸委會我們兩岸要和平 備戰必戰"},{"start":548.22,"end":550.983,"text":"我們一起努力不要只有備戰不必戰我們現在備戰是理應主委會把自己戰狼化這是一個很大的問題我們不是戰狼我們是務實面對"},{"start":565.073,"end":580.795,"text":"你可以看你剛才從回答很多委員都是說我這個那個這個那個框框條條框框太多你就是把自己戰狼化如果把自己戰狼化真的如果可以拆掉他成立的宗旨就是要兩岸交流"},{"start":581.655,"end":606.306,"text":"兩岸交流是最大的宗旨結果現在你要交流設了很多的門檻框框條條沒有門檻那門檻就是要維護我們避免被統戰滲透又來這句話了交流就怕統戰對自己這麼沒有信心我們可以統戰他們啊他們來看我們的抗議節目多好啊對不對每天可以冒政府官員他們多羨慕啊我們統戰他們啊"},{"start":609.741,"end":613.327,"text":"我們統戰他們 怎麼怕被統戰呢奇怪 讓他來 我們統戰他們你就丟好 謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"165292","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165292","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe32133223addaf37ffb3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5cd7dcd980b23cef445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"09:48:55 - 09:57:10","影片長度":"00:08:15","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:48:55+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:57:10+08:00","duration":495,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.14409375,"end":6.7809687499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.371593750000001,"end":8.164718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.665968750000001,"end":14.273468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.543468750000002,"end":16.079093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.31534375,"end":16.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.88909375,"end":17.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.12096875,"end":22.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.94721875,"end":24.769718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.25909375,"end":27.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.34721875,"end":31.469093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.03846875,"end":34.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.962218750000005,"end":35.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.88159375,"end":38.674718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.674718750000004,"end":39.518468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.070968750000006,"end":45.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.19284375,"end":45.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.43721875,"end":47.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.057218750000004,"end":49.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.76159375,"end":51.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.80784375,"end":52.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.76096875,"end":57.844718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.73909375,"end":63.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.97034375000001,"end":64.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.28659375000001,"end":74.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.82159375,"end":71.20971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.32346875,"end":74.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.77034375000001,"end":76.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.88409375,"end":76.67721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.91346875,"end":79.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.40659375,"end":82.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.46534375,"end":84.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.25846875,"end":84.05159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.57471875,"end":85.08096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.50284375000001,"end":90.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.88596875,"end":91.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.94471875,"end":93.55221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.78409375000001,"end":95.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.83034375000001,"end":97.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.64846875,"end":99.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.06596875000001,"end":102.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.63096875000001,"end":106.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.20409375000001,"end":108.46971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.02659375,"end":110.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.57909375000001,"end":112.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.19471875,"end":120.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.02471875,"end":121.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.37471875000001,"end":126.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.81284375000001,"end":127.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.45409375000001,"end":127.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.12909375,"end":130.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.67721875,"end":133.93409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.40659375,"end":137.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.41034375,"end":137.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.38909375,"end":140.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.68409375000002,"end":141.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.86534375000002,"end":143.63721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.89034375,"end":145.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.13471875000002,"end":151.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.82159375,"end":154.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.11221875,"end":155.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.07409375,"end":160.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.20846875,"end":161.79471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.50346875,"end":165.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.96284375000002,"end":169.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.11846875,"end":170.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.38409375,"end":171.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.54846875,"end":174.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.24409375000002,"end":177.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.10034375,"end":185.75721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.61909375000002,"end":179.07471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.26846875,"end":181.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.05721875,"end":184.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.13284375,"end":189.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.82409375,"end":191.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.30909375000002,"end":195.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.64596875,"end":198.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.68346875,"end":201.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.48471875,"end":203.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.18471875,"end":209.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.80409375000002,"end":210.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.20471875,"end":211.82909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.40284375000002,"end":217.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.62159375000002,"end":221.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.24534375000002,"end":221.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.65034375000002,"end":226.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.15159375000002,"end":229.54784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.71659375000002,"end":231.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.50534375,"end":232.58534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.12534375,"end":234.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.17596875,"end":235.58909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.04471875000002,"end":239.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.92596875,"end":240.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.90471875000003,"end":242.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.62596875000003,"end":244.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.41471875000002,"end":244.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.20784375000002,"end":245.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.27534375000002,"end":245.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.44409375,"end":250.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.82721875000001,"end":253.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.32471875000002,"end":253.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.69596875000002,"end":255.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.43409375000002,"end":256.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.88971875000001,"end":260.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.98221875,"end":260.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.57659375000003,"end":262.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.74534375,"end":262.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.01096875,"end":264.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.30596875000003,"end":268.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.52909375,"end":272.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.64659375,"end":274.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.26221875000005,"end":276.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.28721875,"end":279.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.49784375,"end":280.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.03784375000004,"end":280.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.18534375,"end":285.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.06221875,"end":288.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.49221875,"end":289.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.91409375,"end":291.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.61409375,"end":293.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.02721875000003,"end":296.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.30096875000004,"end":298.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.36846875000003,"end":297.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.39346875,"end":305.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.46846875,"end":306.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.90284375000005,"end":309.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.72096875,"end":309.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.49721875,"end":317.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.77034375,"end":322.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.47409375,"end":325.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.56659375000004,"end":327.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.96284375000005,"end":330.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.78096875,"end":332.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.89034375,"end":335.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.04221875,"end":333.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.94471875000005,"end":341.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.80034375,"end":343.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.13346875,"end":344.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.77034375,"end":347.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.12034375,"end":346.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.87534375,"end":348.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.07784375,"end":348.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.11159375,"end":349.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.74846875000003,"end":352.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.53284375000004,"end":355.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.39721875000004,"end":359.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.14346875,"end":362.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.52284375000005,"end":362.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.38346875,"end":364.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.88971875000004,"end":364.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.90221875000003,"end":366.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.40409375,"end":369.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.91409375,"end":370.92659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.73659375,"end":372.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.82471875000005,"end":376.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.69346875,"end":381.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.49409375000005,"end":385.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.00846875,"end":390.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.02471875000003,"end":392.02034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.35784375000003,"end":394.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.75409375000004,"end":396.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.36971875,"end":399.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.03596875000005,"end":400.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.30159375000005,"end":406.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.41034375000004,"end":408.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.13159375000004,"end":411.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.01721875000004,"end":416.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.04596875000004,"end":417.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.95721875000004,"end":421.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.46721875000003,"end":422.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.01971875000004,"end":425.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.57221875000005,"end":426.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.37784375,"end":430.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.93409375000005,"end":439.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.60784375000003,"end":442.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.64159375,"end":443.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.33284375000005,"end":446.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.72909375,"end":448.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.88909375000003,"end":451.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.40346875,"end":453.12471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.42034375000003,"end":451.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.59721875,"end":454.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.98096875000005,"end":456.07784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.12846875,"end":456.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.38159375000004,"end":459.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.50346875,"end":459.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.53721875,"end":459.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.55409375000005,"end":465.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.79846875000004,"end":462.15284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.83596875,"end":469.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.90721875,"end":468.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.15159375,"end":474.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.30284375,"end":475.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.09159375,"end":478.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.17971875,"end":483.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.37346875000003,"end":481.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.58846875,"end":483.11159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.76971875000004,"end":486.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.20409375,"end":494.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.67159375000006,"end":491.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.62471875000006,"end":495.29534375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.185,"end":8.126,"text":"主席 我們請主委有請就主委黃委員好主委 各位主委本來不想這裡有幾個問題要跟你談到最主要是我們剛才委員所問的在這裡本身要跟你談到一個問題就是"},{"start":33.086,"end":35.867,"text":"你保養他對的人他對的人他是中華民國台灣人是不是還是阿強仔的人他是我們這裡的人我們這裡對我們中華民國台灣人中華民國嘛阿強仔,人家說阿強仔都對的人"},{"start":58.783,"end":62.586,"text":"如果中國人來臺灣,他都放什麼護照來臺灣,探親他們會拿著一定要申請我們的入台證那通常他們也會,雖然有大公證主委不敢說嘛主委不敢說嘛在這裡本身要來清告一下"},{"start":80.421,"end":86.888,"text":"你覺得李博洋 他說沈博洋啊 不好意思沈博洋說要抓他有國家分類法 他違反啦他是 他是分類什麼啊教員報告"},{"start":100.114,"end":125.667,"text":"我個人認為 沈委員都在...我不是要問你個人啦 你站在那裡就是代表國家的醫療啊 你個人我現在要問國家的生活啦是 高委員報告我覺得沈委員並沒有去違反我們中華民國什麼法律中共他的法律在台灣完全沒有所謂的管轄權"},{"start":128.276,"end":137.672,"text":"對台灣人完全沒有拘束力不僅是省委員在台灣的任何人都可以不受到中共的法律的管轄但是"},{"start":138.479,"end":150.925,"text":"中共用這種跨境鎮壓他的目的在於恫嚇我們國人以及在分化我們國人那所以我們希望國人能夠團結一致譴責這種跨境鎮壓來 主委在這裡本身你問一下這個22條裡面跨國的鎮壓裡面你所了解待會國家會符合它"},{"start":165.984,"end":170.886,"text":"要跟合作來審某樣嗎來 你回答一下是 高委員報告我們有看了所謂的懲讀二十二條這個懲讀二十二條啊都是你一個人 我問你一個人這樣回答就好我沒有錢為你 你說了解我們認為中國雖然跟六十幾個國家遷渡引渡協議但是過去我們國際上有所謂的政治犯良心犯"},{"start":195.7,"end":203.542,"text":"不引渡我想相關的國家應該不會去執行這個中共的引渡的要求"},{"start":204.212,"end":220.618,"text":"通常國際上是需要 兩方都要有犯罪才會去引渡中國這個對於政治的主張對於言論主張的打壓跟涉陷這樣主委 你會回答嗎我替沈柏洋反映了包括你現在全世界多少人可以配合 中共來抓沈柏洋的選擇教你無情為之 你不知道"},{"start":233.183,"end":235.325,"text":"所以這是非常危險的所以在這裏面宣佈人家沒錢為止我叫不讓人出門如果出國去就壞了不會啦不會啦自由民主的國家我想沒有問題我知道啦像美國也不會啦像日本也不會啦假如說跟阿強好好的國家都是國際形象這國家都不會"},{"start":263.067,"end":266.81,"text":"因為在這裡我要說,我們這個問題在這段時間啊,剛才我們有跟董事說,我們的總統讓我們的院長出來相反一下,我覺得也沒什麼啊,因為"},{"start":281.201,"end":288.026,"text":"不管帶一棟做我們立法院的院長畢竟他是我們的大家庭是是我們其中有委員受盡什麼問題應該是都要寫完的啊以我的認定啦因為說實在他畢竟是中華民國立法院的院長啊不然我回到韓院長也不能不叫院長"},{"start":310.852,"end":313.455,"text":"他畢竟他當選他是我們的院長他要照顧我們每一個委員這個事件我們應該要不分朝野團結一心 一致對外"},{"start":323.53,"end":325.931,"text":"因為我覺得這個問題 現在我相信這幾檔都還沒跟阿強 晚間也還沒跟他吐槽因為大家都生活在這個自由民主的國家 都希望我們的國家"},{"start":344.922,"end":352.127,"text":"更安全、更安、更好所以主委,在這個氛圍當中你知不知道有很多人去觀賞、去美酒觀賞有很多台灣人去的,你知不知道?了解!了解嗎?是!是!那你有了解他們廟裡面的章程有什麼嗎?你有了解嗎?你沒了解?"},{"start":375.418,"end":381.081,"text":"來 主委你看一下 堅決擁護中國共產黨 他們你看啦所以你要去美洲要去拜拜的時候 說實在信用沒分散啦 大家都給最尊重啦"},{"start":397.449,"end":424.994,"text":"信基督教我們也要尊重信媽祖我們也要尊重支持你看他在裡面的贊成我們中華民國台灣的廟口只有贊成說他要效忠中華民國的台灣是 委員你指出這個證據非常重要證明這個中共是一個無神論"},{"start":427.074,"end":442.857,"text":"我們都知道中共是沒有宗教自由的國家尤其各種宗教都要在統戰部的宗教師管理所以他就把宗教當成一個統戰的工具所以他們要效忠中國共產黨的領導統戰要怎麼去做啦像我現在在臨盟的時候你才知道一間一間在外面二空二數里有十八十六條啦"},{"start":453.639,"end":457.882,"text":"我們會加強宣導讓國人了解 賦路 參加這個宗教的交流主委 我在這裡跟你說我們不是在耍嘴皮"},{"start":470.291,"end":472.453,"text":"是要如何讓中華民國的台灣保護好跟我們的背景要出國也好在台灣也好可以更加保護他們的安全這是最重要的這是我們職責所在跟議長因為我這幾天時間夠了我還有後續有幾條問題想麻煩署長給我回答一下 議長是 各位議員"}]}},{"id":"165291","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165291","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe337eb743d6ee11a61b3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5ceffd30bbe266b48c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"09:40:57 - 09:48:46","影片長度":"00:07:49","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:40:57+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:48:46+08:00","duration":469,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.60846875,"end":9.852218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.96284375,"end":4.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.059093750000002,"end":9.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.26096875,"end":13.969718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.35784375,"end":16.028468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.230968750000002,"end":18.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.67784375,"end":20.247218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.58471875,"end":23.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.38159375,"end":28.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.24159375,"end":31.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.38034375,"end":48.900968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.06971875,"end":50.487218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.94284375,"end":60.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.236593750000004,"end":63.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.80159375,"end":64.42596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.71284375,"end":68.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.82596875,"end":71.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.36159375,"end":73.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.29784375,"end":75.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.59721875000001,"end":93.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.63284375,"end":94.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.61534375000001,"end":97.50096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.04096875,"end":102.81659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.15909375000001,"end":98.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.18784375000001,"end":106.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.98471875000001,"end":110.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.03909375,"end":116.35034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.77221875000001,"end":124.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.41659375,"end":124.77096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.70346875000001,"end":125.39534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.54721875000001,"end":142.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.87784375,"end":146.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.74221875,"end":152.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.73284375,"end":155.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.58471875,"end":160.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.64721875,"end":161.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.69346875000002,"end":166.30034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.67159375,"end":168.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.78096875,"end":170.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.17721875,"end":173.57346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.65784375,"end":181.18409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.40346875,"end":185.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.21284375000002,"end":187.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.07346875000002,"end":188.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.49096875,"end":192.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.13159375,"end":198.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.63284375,"end":199.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.69596875000002,"end":201.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.21034375000002,"end":203.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.98221875000002,"end":205.53471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.05784375000002,"end":212.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.45346875,"end":216.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.06034375000002,"end":218.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.06846875000002,"end":220.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.63784375,"end":222.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.67971875,"end":228.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.06284375,"end":233.88471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.03284375,"end":231.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.12096875,"end":234.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.40784375,"end":240.55034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.87096875,"end":244.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.31346875000003,"end":247.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.48159375,"end":249.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.61221875,"end":261.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.42596875,"end":256.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.69471875,"end":262.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.76221875000005,"end":263.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.66909375,"end":263.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.68596875000003,"end":263.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.93909375000004,"end":278.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.01346875,"end":286.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.67096875000004,"end":278.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.78909375,"end":279.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.99034375,"end":292.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.17971875,"end":291.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.23409375,"end":295.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.91721875,"end":299.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.81534375,"end":301.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.68846875,"end":303.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.29159375,"end":304.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.84409375,"end":307.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.56971875,"end":312.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.80971875,"end":313.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.63596875,"end":320.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.01034375,"end":322.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.32659375000003,"end":323.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.49096875000004,"end":324.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.55846875000003,"end":344.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.66096875,"end":344.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.63534375,"end":345.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.66909375,"end":349.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.37721875,"end":350.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.06471875,"end":352.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.38096875,"end":352.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.97159375,"end":353.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.03909375,"end":353.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.96721875000003,"end":354.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.05159375,"end":354.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.22034375000004,"end":354.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.96284375000005,"end":357.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.24096875000004,"end":357.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.38846875,"end":358.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.40534375000004,"end":370.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.80596875000003,"end":360.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.17596875000004,"end":377.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.57534375,"end":380.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.33034375,"end":380.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.49034375,"end":387.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.58221875000004,"end":388.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.42596875000004,"end":390.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.29909375,"end":400.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.58159375,"end":391.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.85534375000003,"end":395.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.19659375000003,"end":404.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.97221875,"end":409.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.48596875000004,"end":414.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.61596875000004,"end":416.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.13034375,"end":422.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.86784375,"end":422.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.88471875000005,"end":423.66096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.18846875,"end":426.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.37346875000003,"end":439.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.53346875000005,"end":432.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.83596875,"end":444.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.56909375000004,"end":446.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.54346875000005,"end":448.16346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.16346875000005,"end":449.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.58534375000005,"end":450.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.57221875000005,"end":454.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.72784375000003,"end":455.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.48284375000003,"end":458.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.11534375,"end":467.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.37221875,"end":462.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.26596875,"end":468.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.49346875000003,"end":469.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.76346875,"end":470.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.65784375000004,"end":470.67471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.646,"end":9.73,"text":"好 謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員早有請陸委會邱崔正主委 請邱主委總委好 主委好 主委今天自由時報頭版 不知道你有沒有看到他上面特別寫 這個中國紅色通緝沈伯陽委員賴清德總統呼籲韓國瑜院長挺身護國會尊嚴"},{"start":32.418,"end":50.035,"text":"我想這番言論讓很多人來質疑究竟賴總統是在關心我們國人還是立委的人身安全還是在轉移焦點推卸政治責任因為我們都知道兩岸跟外交的議題跟政策皆是由總統或是行政院主導"},{"start":51.116,"end":68.624,"text":"對岸啟動調查或是通緝第一個該挺身而出的應該是總統本人跟行政院等等主管機關而不是主持議事職責中立的國會的這個議長韓國瑜院長我想要先請教主委這是立法院可以管的嗎"},{"start":70.258,"end":96.831,"text":"跟委員報告對於這個典型的跨國鎮壓我想他除了針對省委員之外其實他的目的是要針對所有台灣民眾的集體的脅迫對於跨國鎮壓我覺得我們要不分朝野我只是請教說你覺得認為這個是立法院可以管的嗎我覺得就是我們要譴責要共同譴責"},{"start":98.086,"end":115.812,"text":"因為他這個跨國鎮壓他的目的在於恫嚇及分化我們內部那我們就是不要讓他得逞我們要更團結我們面對挑戰我們更有韌性來回擊他好 謝謝主委這等一下我要問的問題這次我們看到這件事件產生各部會"},{"start":117.172,"end":145.511,"text":"我認為都沒有明確的發言對策以及具體做法等一下我要來就教我們的主委其實剛剛賴總統講的要挺身護國會尊嚴什麼是國會尊嚴我這邊跟主委報告當立法院他是立法權立法院在修法要求讓國軍加薪因為現在國軍人數很少要國軍加薪的時候結果我們行政院居然沒有編列相對的預算"},{"start":146.973,"end":154.312,"text":"當立法院在幫警消及公教人員保障他們未來的退休權益退休金的時候這個行政院沒有編列預算"},{"start":155.78,"end":177.447,"text":"結果現在賴總統遇到事情了以後才說要企圖把這個行政權還有外交他的這些權責要推給立法院說這個就是立法院要來維護國會尊嚴所以這個很明顯就是毀憲亂政執政失能的一個非常重要的一個問題這不僅讓我想到當時賴總統"},{"start":181.468,"end":197.933,"text":"他去我們台灣這個中南部在尤其南部在救災的時候洪水啊跟淤泥啊淹沒了我們很多的家園的家鄉的時候他明明就是三軍統帥結果他不讓國軍到民眾的家裡去清淤他說你們自己組成一個"},{"start":199.958,"end":218.453,"text":"這個團體你們自己去清淤這樣就好了或者是當民眾的頂樓的時候受損的時候那個民眾跟他拜託說賴總統你是不是可以請國軍還是一些專業人士幫我們再修屋頂的時候結果賴總統說你可以自己爬你可以自己爬 爬到屋頂去修啊然後發生了那麼多的憾事"},{"start":219.273,"end":236.539,"text":"結果現在立法院有委員遭受通緝現在說立法院韓院長你可以自己出來自己聲援自己維護國會尊嚴嗎這樣做法不是就是一樣的做法嗎所以本席非常不能接受這樣的做法第二個問題我現在想要請教主委的是請問發生這件事情的時候賴總統有沒有下令我們陸委會有要做什麼樣的事情你們有沒有跟陸方針對這樣的事情有去做任何的溝通來請說明"},{"start":248.53,"end":260.364,"text":"跟張委員報告這個事情啊除了對有沒有做了幾次 有沒有公佈都有 都有幾次只是他對不管是外交部門對陸委會都有積極的作為"},{"start":262.898,"end":277.823,"text":"請明確的表示我們除了要讓國人安心放心強調中共的跨境鎮壓對我國沒有管轄權我們國人絕對不受到拘束主委我再問一件事 你們如何跟維護國家的安全去跟對岸去做溝通 你們溝通了幾次可不可以明確回應 賴總統有請你溝通了嗎那你們溝通了 去溝通了幾次"},{"start":287.062,"end":294.288,"text":"我們不斷的透過我們各種的多元管道對他們都很清楚我們的立場他這種跨境的打壓對於我們國人安全上面的恫嚇以及分化我們內部我們不會讓他得逞的我們反而要更團結委員 這個事情我們應該團籌敵抗團結一心共同來譴責中共的跨境施壓"},{"start":314.077,"end":339.289,"text":"所以我覺得委員你應該會站在我們這邊他這個跨境鎮壓的對象還針對國軍官兵 資通電軍 檢察官所以我要請教為什麼今天要請教陸委會的問題陸委會每年有兩百多個編制緣和一年也有十億的經費人民想要的是陸委會有明確的作為你們的plan A plan B plan C是什麼你們具體作為到底在哪裡"},{"start":340.049,"end":345.551,"text":"你們有沒有去溝通你們具體作為到底在哪裡我們該溝通的會溝通你們溝通了幾次我們在我們的各種的管道上我們該講的要講他們也很清楚我們的訴求就像你剛剛講的不要用喊話來代替對話你們到底溝通了幾次"},{"start":358.427,"end":370.394,"text":"我們覺得他對於我們這樣的一種跨境鎮壓我們首先要反鎮壓我們他的目的在侵略我們我們要反侵略反併吞這個事情發生到現在你們跟對岸有沒有做溝通賴總統要求你們要去溝通你們溝通了幾次"},{"start":377.662,"end":395.923,"text":"我們有做這個溝通溝通幾次我們有我們不只多少次的向對岸去提出我們的嚴正聲明我想委員我們現在應該是團結一心我們絕對是團結一心可是我們也要入委會發展他的功能我們要行政單位各部會"},{"start":396.784,"end":403.851,"text":"要有具體的作為我們會透過各種溝通聯繫的機制向對岸表達你們到底有沒有聯繫的機制主委為什麼我今天會請教你這個問題因為其實就您商量一年多來了這一年多來你們到底有沒有辦法跟對岸溝通的機制有沒有跟中方嚴厲表證立場跟抗議你們到底是怎麼溝通我想國人想要了解的是這個狀態你們怎麼溝通的"},{"start":422.912,"end":447.628,"text":"跟委員報告真的是像你講的用喊話來代替對話嗎我們是過去那這樣陸委會既有的溝通聯繫機制我們不管是兩岸協議的機制雙方既有的機制我們都細心地在維護所以我剛剛議員問你說賴總統有沒有請你如果上面的人就要你不要溝通當然你現在我們努力溝通也要表達我們嚴正的立場你們如何溝通溝通了幾次你們最高的溝通的層級到哪裡"},{"start":451.591,"end":468.184,"text":"我想我們各種的溝通都在努力我們嚴正立場也在表達謝謝主委這件事情我相信我們會繼續追希望說你們好好來做然後後續給我們一個完整的說明好不好謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝張志倫委員"}]}},{"id":"165290","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165290","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe34e2094ae93293b8cb3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5ceffd30bbe266b48c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"09:34:11 - 09:40:45","影片長度":"00:06:34","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:34:11+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T09:40:45+08:00","duration":394,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.181593750000001,"end":9.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.004093750000003,"end":10.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.66971875,"end":17.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.137843750000002,"end":38.860343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.48471875,"end":47.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.44096875,"end":49.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.47471875,"end":64.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.45971875000001,"end":65.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.79284375,"end":71.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.64846875,"end":74.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.92221875,"end":75.58034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.74909375,"end":76.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.67721875000001,"end":78.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.35221875,"end":79.81596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.45721875000001,"end":81.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.54971875000001,"end":83.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.30471875,"end":84.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.40596875,"end":87.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.28346875000001,"end":93.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.73034375,"end":88.06784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.31596875000001,"end":94.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.51409375,"end":94.59846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.66596875,"end":97.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.93159375,"end":105.76971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.48784375000001,"end":100.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.99784375,"end":107.22096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.98034375,"end":110.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.37221875,"end":115.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.43909375000001,"end":117.80159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.95346875000001,"end":119.45534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.05471875,"end":119.70846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.70846875000001,"end":119.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.74221875,"end":124.90596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.65346875,"end":120.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.17221875000001,"end":122.88096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.90596875000001,"end":126.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.61471875000001,"end":127.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.23471875000001,"end":127.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.69034375000001,"end":129.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.81659375,"end":134.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.94659375,"end":136.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.90409375000002,"end":138.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.60846875000001,"end":138.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.28346875,"end":139.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.36346875,"end":159.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.06721875,"end":146.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.78659375,"end":159.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.15784375,"end":165.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.65971875,"end":162.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.96284375000002,"end":166.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.68409375000002,"end":170.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.80596875,"end":172.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.89846875,"end":174.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.32846875,"end":178.14659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.92284375,"end":180.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.79596875000001,"end":183.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.93471875,"end":190.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.92096875000001,"end":192.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.97971875000002,"end":194.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.10159375,"end":208.04909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.50471875000002,"end":215.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.84534375,"end":221.51534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.81909375,"end":224.48534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.72159375,"end":224.89034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.27846875,"end":226.61159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.32909375000003,"end":226.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.76346875000002,"end":228.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.83909375000002,"end":235.87596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.24346875,"end":234.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.92659375000002,"end":236.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.02784375000002,"end":236.41596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.06159375000001,"end":242.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.01409375000003,"end":253.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.80971875000003,"end":262.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.89284375,"end":263.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.93909375000004,"end":266.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.50409375000004,"end":268.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.26721875000004,"end":270.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.36846875000003,"end":280.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.41909375,"end":270.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.89846875,"end":289.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.79284375000003,"end":282.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.38221875,"end":294.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.02721875000003,"end":316.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.04471875,"end":326.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.96721875000003,"end":328.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.90784375000004,"end":328.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.97534375000004,"end":332.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.51909375,"end":336.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.90221875000003,"end":346.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.23846875000004,"end":347.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.94721875000005,"end":364.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.30721875,"end":372.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.27221875000004,"end":378.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.77346875,"end":392.50971875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.38,"end":11.406,"text":"我先請邱主委有請邱主委莊委員早"},{"start":19.048,"end":47.335,"text":"主委我剛看你的報告裡面你就說中共一直在國際宣傳一中原則然後推進統一然後宣揚統一之後的好處對不對我們看到的事實也是如此對不對是那我想請問一下如果是外國人要來台灣不管是觀光旅遊或是恰公他拿中國的簽證可以來台灣嗎"},{"start":49.982,"end":73.647,"text":"我們是接受的包括現在由於中國大陸還不願意讓他的從中國大陸人到台灣來我們還在進行小兩會的協商但是我們操之在我的部分從第三國第三地來的中國大陸籍的他在海外有不是耶 我是說外國人"},{"start":74.963,"end":92.359,"text":"外國人 外國人拿中國的證件不具有中國身份的人 比如說我是當然歡迎啊 外國人到台灣當然歡迎啊我是單純的 比如說我是單純的加拿大人能夠拿中國的簽證可以來台灣嗎"},{"start":93.359,"end":108.971,"text":"那他的身份是沒有啊那當然不行囉因為他必須要以外國人的身份來台灣如果說是要有中國大陸的身份我們有一定的我不是講中國的身份喔我不是講我單純的外國人"},{"start":111.594,"end":124.497,"text":"他沒有中國的身份 他拿中國的簽證可以來台灣嗎拿中國的簽證怎麼來台灣呢可不可以啦 不行不行嘛 你就回答我不行就對了這就不行啦 對不對當然 當然對不對 這一個那我們在台灣在跟美國是不是還在談關稅是 目前還在進行是嘛 也不是跟中國談吧對不對"},{"start":140.801,"end":155.485,"text":"這個是很明顯的中國他沒有管轄到台灣台灣是一個獨立的主體我們有人民土地政府主權我們有自己的護照我們跟中國在談我們不跟中國我們跟美國在談關稅對不對我國是主權的獨立國家我們行使排他性的管轄權沒錯嘛"},{"start":167.845,"end":193.947,"text":"中國他雖然一直在國際上推一中但現在大家也都知道我為什麼要特別這樣問人家加拿大就回答他你跟我講一中我拿你的簽證我就不能去台灣這全部人全世界都知道一個最簡單的所以我要請教主委如果他都一直在講一中還有一中各表嗎"},{"start":196.158,"end":214.275,"text":"我想從2019年元月二號習五條已經重新定義九二共識兩樣同屬於中共某國家統一統一在一國兩制台灣方案之後我想在中國所提出來的九二共識跟一中原則裡面"},{"start":215.916,"end":239.96,"text":"就沒有中華民國生存的空間了沒有嘛 對不對所以九二共識就沒了嘛所謂九二共識一個中國原則沒有個表了可以說是三位一體的對財政策對嘛 已經九二共識已經變位了吧對不對這個已經酸掉了吧操生啊啦跟原來的不是原汁原味嘛"},{"start":240.373,"end":261.241,"text":"對不對 是不是這樣是好所以其實很多事情講清楚我們用護照用關稅大家都非常清楚就不用特別再去講了是台灣就是一個主權的國家那中國還是一天到晚吃我們豆腐對不對我不知道主委你現在知不知道有一個高德地圖你知道他是到處矮化台灣台灣變成他的台灣神"},{"start":270.447,"end":289.293,"text":"我想我們在台灣都會用GPS那中國因為他有不同的系統用高德系統你知不知道有這個地圖有 我們知道你知道嘛那你知道現在有很多人在台灣在網路上在什麼的在替中國在宣"},{"start":291.273,"end":308.581,"text":"宣傳這個地圖好用這個怎麼樣你知不知道這些事情我想導航的系統是不是要輸入我們國人的個資使用中國製的APP我也呼籲國人要注意治安的風險它甚至會帶來國安的風險"},{"start":310.422,"end":336.685,"text":"所以我想我們的有關機關包括速發部也應該向我們大眾來說明使用這類的中共製的APP它可能帶來資安跟國安的風險應該跟國人來說明除了資安跟國安的風險你個人的資安那還有國安你也說了所以像這種情況之下"},{"start":337.967,"end":364.281,"text":"我們陸委會你會樂見他在台灣很多人在這邊推廣這個高德地圖嗎當然不樂見而且我們雖然是一個自由的國家但這侵害台灣主權的我們能不能跨部會包括去跟NCC去跟你講這個像這種高德地圖這種的一直矮化台灣的我們不能屏蔽他嗎"},{"start":365.382,"end":389.155,"text":"是 我想我們對於國人使用這個陸方所這個APP在使用這些通常對委員講的那個問題那我們首先就是用科學的方式來檢視這些APP可能帶來的相關的風險那委員給我們一段時間我們來檢視好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165283","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165283","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe313ad499e42f18c26b62a46119727b9b9a983a902744326173afc8281b51035285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"11:20:17 - 11:34:29","影片長度":"00:14:12","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:20:17+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:34:29+08:00","duration":852,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.08034375,"end":11.337218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.535968750000002,"end":8.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.691593750000003,"end":12.231593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.21409375,"end":16.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.652843750000002,"end":80.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.75409375,"end":17.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.50346875000001,"end":101.12909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.44971875,"end":187.91721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.71034375000002,"end":205.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.73721875,"end":233.88471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.42159375000003,"end":227.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.23909375000002,"end":326.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.69721875000005,"end":363.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.92346875000004,"end":371.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.39471875000004,"end":451.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.55534375,"end":451.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.62284375,"end":451.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.09534375000004,"end":478.04909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.13346875,"end":501.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.69096875,"end":521.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.1940937500001,"end":550.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.21909375,"end":561.3272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.47909375,"end":601.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.20284375,"end":601.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.6922187499999,"end":675.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.83971875,"end":630.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.97596875,"end":688.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.3915937500001,"end":695.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.39909375,"end":764.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":764.58659375,"end":810.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":810.30096875,"end":826.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.2140937500001,"end":846.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.8015937500002,"end":853.9734687500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.626,"end":35.216,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請洪部長來 部長部長好是 今天是勞動部的業務報告嘛看到您準備這麼完整的這個相關的業務報告包括早上的口頭報告真的非常謝謝那回想在113年11月25日您匆匆忙忙的上陣"},{"start":36.937,"end":61.23,"text":"那個時候在很短的時間裡面被賦予這個重責大任當然壓力很大大家其實也都有一些安心不過將近一年來看你很匆匆容容游刃有餘的來應對相關的議題真的非常佩服那也很感謝在這段時間包括部長還有所有同仁針對相關的勞動議題做非常深入的研究那也"},{"start":61.83,"end":79.455,"text":"提到動朋友解決很多問題當然還是有很多問題必須要大家共同來努力包括今天的主題之一就是引進這個跨國的勞動力如果能夠有更多更完整的這個政策配套這個就是今天希望跟部長一起來討論的地方"},{"start":81.57,"end":105.667,"text":"那完善這個移工的政策配套我相信大家從您的口頭報告裡面也知道行政院在10月30號有公告相關跨國勞動力的精進方案這裡面有四大方案其實主要還是聚焦在三個部分一個就是製造業的部分如果能夠幫這個本國的勞工加薪的經營下呢是可以"},{"start":106.467,"end":132.549,"text":"來增加這個移工的名額那第二個主要方案就是希望能夠放寬外國技術人力流用的上限包括如果說這些技術人才在台灣已經過一段時間的話可以能夠把他全數的轉任到技術人力來不過也希望整體的總員工的百分比不要超過50%那第三個部分呢就是有關於旅宿業跟這個商港碼頭業"},{"start":134.33,"end":153.272,"text":"希望能够引进相关的外国技术人才能够让整个工作在运作可以持续的来精进当然这个百分比也不要超过10%这个是已经公告的那也持续在执行了一个相关的政策方案"},{"start":153.892,"end":181.808,"text":"另外賴總統其實也希望能夠持續推動12歲以下一個孩子的家庭能夠可以申請到外籍的幫傭來協助整個家庭的照顧如果是雙薪家庭的話就沒有後顧之憂當然這個部分行政院還在持續的研議當中希望年底之前能夠有相關的政策跟配套可以讓國人進一步的了解"},{"start":182.228,"end":204.874,"text":"那這部分可不可以先請部長稍微說明一下有關的進度跟一般的狀況其實針對外籍包容的政策那包括是不是要調整現有開放的幅度那這部分的政策我們目前在依照行政院的指示在幾個原則下面那這還在做相關的評估"},{"start":205.814,"end":227.021,"text":"是的確因為我們知道同樣是12歲以下如果是一般的兒童正常的成長的壓力跟如果照顧是一個罕病的兒童可能帶來的壓力其實是不太一樣所以這部分可能在研議的過程裡面需要有更多的討論那也希望這個配套可以讓它更完整"},{"start":227.501,"end":245.263,"text":"未來在做這些政策改善的同時讓社會在有這個好的政策的執行之下有更好的一些服務的讓民眾有更好的感受那再過來其實我們是要看一連串的數據"},{"start":246.444,"end":270.14,"text":"這個是我們目前針對這個移工看來的一些影響我們從民國100年到113年這個引進移工的在台人數從42萬增加到82萬增加了將近一倍那4年的移工隨著這個移工的人數增加以後呢也從3萬3增加到"},{"start":270.981,"end":275.306,"text":"99萬 這個增加了兩倍多就是從3萬變成到9萬所以這個失聯移工的比例從7.9%增加到11%增加到將近3.多個Percent"},{"start":286.34,"end":307.651,"text":"那受雇的人數如果相較於這個外勞跟本勞的這個比例的話也從5.1%增加到8.7%那這些人數的成長其實是都非常的可觀那如果我們現在的這個移工政策持續這樣執行的話我們也可以理解未來引進移工人數會持續的增加"},{"start":308.671,"end":325.657,"text":"持續增加的同時如果依照這個比例的成長我們的失聯移工人數也相對會持續的增加那這個相關的這些失聯的移工不管他是在醫療的部分或者是社會安全的影響"},{"start":326.977,"end":355.2,"text":"所帶來衝擊應該也會逐漸的讓我們的民眾會替社會擔心這個是我們所看到的這個相關的問題所以如果能夠有相關的這個政策配套這是要麻煩部長這邊要多費心的部分那因為再過來民團會擔心就是說在引進這個跨國勞動力的同時有三個部分必須要持續的來加強注意"},{"start":355.7,"end":379.147,"text":"第一個就是那到底在持續的擴張這個移工人數的時候到底有沒有一個整體的規劃甚至有沒有可能會定一個總額那個我們也了解他常常這個總額的數字大家會有相關的一些討論比如說我們在第五有關於這個就業福華第52條裡面就要求"},{"start":380.387,"end":400.861,"text":"引進的這個總人數呢必須要設定一個警戒的指標才能夠讓民眾可以安心來了解那這個部分需要有中央主管機關來邀請勞工 僱主還有學者代表來協商這是有關於這個整體規劃跟人數總額的部分"},{"start":401.365,"end":426.183,"text":"那第二個其實民團也會很擔心目前台中的巨大工業公司被美國政府因為有可能會強迫勞動的風險之下來發布了這個戰扣令那這個對台灣的形象其實是影響蠻大的這個部分如果我們除夕遠近勞工的過程裡面有需要更注意的部分"},{"start":427.083,"end":451.348,"text":"第三個地方就是如何避免造成本國勞工的低薪因為之前我們引進勞工是原則上是補充性的原則而不是替代性原則萬一我們引進來有更多的替代性的話會不會造成本地勞工低薪的狀況無法改善這三部分不知道目前部長有哪一些可以提供給大家參考的"},{"start":452.168,"end":476.249,"text":"跟王委員說明 因為王委員還有很多勞工團體很關注這部分 針對這個我們在警戒指標的部分其實在我們今年11月7號的時候這個政策小組討論裡面其實有檢視了我們在113年的這個警戒指標跟112年的數據那這一次我們其實看到在19項這個產業跟社福是有這樣的指標裡面 其實16項是有正向的"},{"start":478.411,"end":500.971,"text":"三項是持平的狀況所以針對這個警戒指標的部分我們其實還是很密切的在關注這些事情來作為我們在政策判斷上面的依據這是第一點那第二點其實這一次我們的確也考慮了現在大家都越來越關注的強迫勞動的這個議題所以剛剛其實王阿元講一個在一開始都講一個說我們目前聚焦在前三項方案其實不是"},{"start":501.792,"end":526.347,"text":"我們是四項方案都聚焦而且最後一項方案也就是提高政府的角色跟功能其實做起來的挑戰不比前三項來的低而且會花的心力可能是更大的那我們也是藉由提高政府的角色跟功能的這樣子的能量希望能夠盡量來比方說來提高職聘的量能也就是可以來因應現在強迫勞動"},{"start":528.348,"end":550.123,"text":"这个劳动人权风险的这个状况其实这也是我们在为什么这么强调那个方案一个很重要的原因在这个地方他其实也是应对强迫劳动很重要的一个具体的做法这样子那第三点是针对如何不要避免本国劳动基金我们正是因为不希望造成本国劳动基金所以我们在这次的方案设计里面有几个"},{"start":551.725,"end":566.866,"text":"重点第一个是我们希望这个名额的增加都可以要以本国劳工加薪的前提本国劳工要加薪作为前提这是第一点第二点其实我们在这次的方案里面也非常着重是在外国技术人力上面"},{"start":567.327,"end":584.407,"text":"外國技術人力跟藍領移工不同的地方是外國技術人力是需要設置薪資的門檻的也包括需要設置這個包括可能技能或語言的要求的那透過外國技術人力他設置薪資門檻跟語言要求這幾件事情"},{"start":584.887,"end":600.199,"text":"就是希望盡量來減少對於本國勞工的權益包括尤其是造成更不希望造成低薪的這個狀況來發生所以這幾個點也是在我們這次方案設計裡面非常非常關注的點所以我們才做這樣子方案的規劃"},{"start":601.34,"end":625.169,"text":"是 好 謝謝部長這麼完整的說明一方面可以讓國家更進步的同時也讓我們的勞工朋友知道政府努力的方向所以針對今天這樣的主題有相關的這個配套包括失聯的醫工的這些醫療代帳的部分要怎麼做進一步的處理這部分也要麻煩部長"},{"start":628.071,"end":654.313,"text":"這邊跟衛福部持續的來關照第二個部分就是如何避免高齡跟幼童照顧上發生器重則輕的困擾這部分也是一個希望部長來關照的重點那另外就是是否會跟促進中高齡跟女性就業政策造成一些衝突這個其實我們也知道目前我們努力的方向如果有衝突的話那有什麼好的配套"},{"start":654.973,"end":675.727,"text":"最後一項就是能不能考慮相關政策在調整的時候這些就業安定費是不是也能夠透過不同的需求之下做適當的調配這個部分可不可以兩個月如果有相關的這些書面報告的話可以讓委員會還有辦公室來做參考"},{"start":676.047,"end":688.625,"text":"可以确实汪元说的其实移工的政策环环相扣介绍的层面其实很多然后都必须综合性的考虑所以这些点我们其实我想我们都会来"},{"start":689.668,"end":706.18,"text":"納屋再更深入的考量那我們會來我們一份報告讓王委員這邊來參考好那最後再利用一點點的時間跟部長來討論一下有關於受庇護人的保障措施其實部長在擔任委員的時候也非常關心這個議題"},{"start":707.621,"end":728.363,"text":"目前還是有數十位的這些因為法規的限制依法申請拘留而預期兩年沒有做好決定這個難民相關的權益是希望能夠透過我們勞動部這邊有一個適當的含釋讓這些因為他們本國出現了那些情形之下"},{"start":729.043,"end":748.46,"text":"讓他們不得已他到台灣來他如果不是符合我們常規的這個移工的勞動情形之下所受到的處分當初去年上一期在這個屆期審查移民法的時候也就立法院就邀請有請那個移民署來會整個"},{"start":750.402,"end":762.759,"text":"相關的意見來免於處罰的附帶決議那這部分的話也希望能夠透過勞動部有更完整的含釋來把這個事情做好不知道這部分可不可以請部長這邊也能夠說明"},{"start":764.622,"end":794.048,"text":"好其實這個關於外國人進來然後這個臨時外僑登記證的狀況尤其他可能是有一些可能會需要庇護的原因臨時外僑登記證是我從當立委的時候就非常關注的議題那但是的確因為他的這個組的機關其實會是在內政部那但是勞動部我們在做處分的時候我們不一定都能夠知道這個工作的人那他目前有沒有具備臨時外僑登記證上面的在這上面的名單所以如果今天"},{"start":794.708,"end":809.587,"text":"在內政部這邊能夠提給我們相對應的這個名單上面的對象的話我們其實就可以依照內政部給我們的名單來去做相對應處分上面的調整或者是去做特別的看待"},{"start":810.788,"end":836.247,"text":"那如果需要含釋的話就麻煩勞動部這邊也把這個需求齁能夠具體來完成包括這個違反服務法第43條裡面是不是有違反行政法法第43條的適用性還有是否能夠會避免抵觸兩公約這個需求我想我們都不希望去抵觸兩公約啦齁因為這當初在做這個當時在移民法修法的時候跟相關的配套裡面就是大家就非常看重這件事情尤其很多人權團體都很關注"},{"start":836.867,"end":848.717,"text":"所以我想我們會來跟內政部這邊來聯絡他們一下如果他們有把這相關的名單就趕快提供給我們那我們依照這個名單來做處分上面的依據好 謝謝部長謝謝主席好 謝謝蘇昭偉請你稍坐好不好"}]}},{"id":"165280","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165280","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3c639699d64b8210d57c737e12387eef8a983a9027443261705dc707a53e8c9f85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"11:31:59 - 11:43:59","影片長度":"00:12:00","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:31:59+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:43:59+08:00","duration":720,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.06846875,"end":4.755968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.624718750000001,"end":12.855968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.56471875,"end":14.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.644718750000003,"end":15.657218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.49221875,"end":68.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.21846875,"end":92.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.67596875000001,"end":84.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.87846875000001,"end":84.89534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.63659375,"end":99.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.25159375000001,"end":110.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.13596875,"end":118.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.38909375,"end":111.49034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.62409375000001,"end":122.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.91471875,"end":124.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.27721875,"end":127.01534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.12909375,"end":128.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.00659375,"end":129.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.99784375000002,"end":137.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.43971875,"end":143.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.89034375,"end":147.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.17659375000002,"end":148.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.96534375000002,"end":154.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.48346875000001,"end":157.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.77409375000002,"end":160.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.95096875000002,"end":172.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.57346875000002,"end":174.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.78409375,"end":179.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.19284375,"end":180.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.96471875,"end":190.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.95471875,"end":195.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.37159375000002,"end":200.43846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.97846875000002,"end":215.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.80721875,"end":218.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.40159375000002,"end":222.84846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.54034375,"end":224.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.10471875000002,"end":281.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.69159375000004,"end":284.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.47596875,"end":286.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.63596875,"end":310.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.85159375,"end":310.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.23971875,"end":313.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.09159375,"end":324.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.80284375,"end":333.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.81846875,"end":335.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.14721875000004,"end":338.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.91034375000004,"end":343.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.92659375,"end":345.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.89221875000004,"end":349.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.42784375,"end":354.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.13159375000004,"end":360.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.02096875,"end":368.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.07034375,"end":379.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.70159375000003,"end":397.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.39909375,"end":399.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.13721875000005,"end":403.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.54596875000004,"end":419.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.98221875,"end":420.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.48409375,"end":427.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":427.98096875000005,"end":453.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.46221875000003,"end":464.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.66721875,"end":474.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.69096875,"end":479.70284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.41159375,"end":496.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.46596875000006,"end":483.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.83096875,"end":503.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.66534375000003,"end":508.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.89221875000004,"end":512.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.87471875,"end":518.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.00034375,"end":521.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.6922187499999,"end":520.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.29534375,"end":529.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.9397187500001,"end":532.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.1584687500001,"end":535.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.6772187500001,"end":536.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.77409375,"end":540.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.5915937500001,"end":544.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.91221875,"end":548.9072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.72596875,"end":548.0803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.2109687500001,"end":553.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.90659375,"end":553.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.4084687500001,"end":554.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.01596875,"end":557.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.00284375,"end":560.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.1753437500001,"end":562.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.1159687500001,"end":563.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.4028437500001,"end":563.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.50409375,"end":565.9678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.14909375,"end":569.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.10221875,"end":573.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.47721875,"end":579.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.48471875,"end":579.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.50159375,"end":579.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.92346875,"end":581.6784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.5053437500001,"end":583.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.60221875,"end":587.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":588.34409375,"end":589.8459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.21721875,"end":590.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.2465937500001,"end":592.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.74846875,"end":596.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.96721875,"end":598.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.51971875,"end":600.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.05096875,"end":604.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.56096875,"end":608.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.2859687499999,"end":614.3147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.09096875,"end":616.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.74471875,"end":618.2803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.63471875,"end":620.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":620.99721875,"end":621.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.11096875,"end":623.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.0515937499999,"end":624.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.38471875,"end":629.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.99159375,"end":636.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.3828437500001,"end":640.2178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.84221875,"end":641.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.83784375,"end":653.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.4309687500001,"end":657.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.54846875,"end":660.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":661.34534375,"end":666.6103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":666.96471875,"end":684.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":685.0715937500001,"end":690.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.03284375,"end":716.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.03721875,"end":716.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.58096875,"end":720.10409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.086,"end":4.527,"text":"是的 主席 謝謝主席有請我們司法院王副秘還有我們徐政次"},{"start":20.171,"end":35.599,"text":"我想首先必須要先來肯定我們這次司法院提出的一個版本針對整個少年保護處分提供轉換不同處意的一個模式為什麼說肯定這當然就是落實整個聯合國兒童權益公約改善事務上的一個困境"},{"start":36.599,"end":57.376,"text":"但是我們也必須要去講就是說其實在公約40條裡面我們去看到了就是你為了確保兒童的一個福祉或者並合乎這個自身狀況跟違法情勢做一個多樣性的一個處置就像過去在實務上你說除了訓誡保護管束安置機構感化教育是種不同樣中"},{"start":59.277,"end":81.543,"text":"過去就是說這個四個廚藝當中如果少年不適合的話最多你就是停止執行那沒有辦法去做一個轉換那現在新修法這個是一個好事但是呢我今天特別去聽了我們這個廳長廳長你今天講了很多很勇於任事就提出一些不同的一個看法"},{"start":82.143,"end":92.109,"text":"可是我是覺得還是要特別小心你像譬如說你去看到我們過去你說我特別提出來就是說這個塗銷對於整個兒童的或少年的一個保護我們講說塗銷最主要的目的是要幹什麼"},{"start":100.313,"end":129.703,"text":"就是說來自於外界對他那種窺視你避免將少年貼上這個標籤使他可以順利的更生復歸這個社會當然我知道司法院尤其是廳長你這邊提出來或者說學者專家大家去討論這樣的一個版本裡面利用少年來犯罪這可惡但是真正可惡的我反而倒不覺得是少年或者兒童是這些大人"},{"start":131.055,"end":160.033,"text":"我們在每一個法律裡面你看我們這個整個刑法的規定是你只要是利用未成年的那都是加重二分之一這個次長也很清楚這個覆滅這個審判實務那麼驚艷老道的可是就怪今天這麼多委員在提到說整個那個少年犯罪的不斷的一個提升還有詐騙大家在打詐沒有成效你看那個車手的六成這是非常可怕的"},{"start":161.021,"end":174.691,"text":"那你說我為什麼本席在主席台上我就認為說我們是為了保持一點點的文明的形象否則針對這些詐騙人我都真的主張要殺無色可是你又沒辦法"},{"start":175.976,"end":195.376,"text":"很多在野黨委員認為說這個要判處死刑啊什麼樣沒有那麼簡單啊那個是最後的一個手段把人的生命給剝奪掉我反而擔心的是什麼你說好來採用了大家集體來反制這種重刑的社會大人分開的全部判處死刑萬一沒效呢"},{"start":196.397,"end":217.902,"text":"那不就宣告整個國家的一個法制就瓦解了嗎所以到底問題出在什麼地方要用重點 亂世用重點我倒不認為是一個亂世但是這個詐騙猖狂 這確實是這樣子利用兒童 利用少年 又是一個事實有什麼比較好的補嗎這個司法院的好像不適合講這個 來 社長"},{"start":230.294,"end":249.227,"text":"我想我們目前對於小孩子成人利用小孩子這個部分以前我們比較缺乏跟少年法院這邊的聯繫上一次我們政委還有我們都跟司法院已經做了很好的溝通現在就是在地檢署跟地方法院"},{"start":249.767,"end":272.481,"text":"第二法院我們有一個聯繫的會議也就是說像現在對於陳少共犯的部分他們已經提供很多很多的協助那跟少年法庭這邊的合作這個是有效可以打擊這些成年人我剛剛非常贊成委員剛才所講的就是說該處罰的是利用這些小孩子的後面的成年人"},{"start":273.422,"end":288.662,"text":"現在給我們這麼大的注意的話我們在司法警察在追溯這些源頭是有一定的注意我們認為在追緝面是這樣宣導面當然我們也會努力其實這個是一個跨部會的問題"},{"start":289.984,"end":310.425,"text":"委員你很了解我們現實的社會裡面這個在教育面學校面是大家要一起努力的否則這個小孩子縱使是感化教育他回到社會以後如果家庭跟學校沒有辦法接觸他他又會回到那個集團這就是不斷地在衍生出來的問題剛好洪孟愷委員"},{"start":311.807,"end":335.306,"text":"這次很專業的委員剛好走進來他上次談到這個詐騙犯他是認為要用新加坡那個邊形我是反對他的看法我反對他的部分因為沒有時間講得不清楚我認為都太便宜了你打幾邊你真的以為這個詐騙他這個本身他就你真的他這個就會這個整個犯罪就會降下來沒有那麼簡單的事啊就這一些詐騙的人是可惡啊"},{"start":339.949,"end":365.451,"text":"你說要打他幾邊你浪費多大的一個社會的一個成本怎麼是打他幾邊而已怎麼是打他幾邊而已反而我倒覺得說這個應該是要用怎麼樣的嚇阻的一個方式啊或者如何去加重其刑啊那當然最主要就是說我們整個我們整個這個司法警察部門這個部分如何去快速"},{"start":365.931,"end":377.99,"text":"去把這些瓦解掉那才是一個重點那我想接下來我必須要再請教司法院的就是說我們整個塗銷我們涉及到這個修法裡面會有塗銷你去看看我們最高法院過去的實務"},{"start":380.035,"end":399.011,"text":"你說九十八年台非三二二那個刑事判決裡面去講到說你受刑的執行完畢後赦免一日起算三年內未在手行之新聞告該前科紀錄不復存在就是說這個少年在此三年內是否再犯罪並非所問"},{"start":400.219,"end":418.942,"text":"那我看今天看了廳長的這些講法以後啊當然是回應社會啦 回應社會啦但是你去看這個歷程啊你說塗銷這個歷程跟少年事件的一個少事法的一個典範轉移的一個重要條文你從沒有塗銷到一直鼓勵到達到充分保護的一個意志"},{"start":420.066,"end":440.008,"text":"你看這個大家 我現在王滬密或者廳長應該很清楚嘛林濟東 韓中 我這都算我們的師公當年你說在1955年在成立少年法專案小組的時候採依教不依法的立法的一個原則也就是說過去的少事法是充滿的少年的保護主義"},{"start":440.731,"end":463.65,"text":"那到了1976年起戒嚴時期又被質疑說是鼓勵犯罪重視社會治安的維護高於青少年的健全的一個教育所以你在1976年又增添一個塗銷制度就五年未再宣告這個執行完畢或者赦免五年以內沒有再受行之宣告視為未曾受該宣告以致來做一個鼓勵"},{"start":465.104,"end":479.178,"text":"後來1997年就一個分水嶺全面又回歸少年保護制度把這個塗銷這個部分我相信又做了一個改變修法前跟修法後這個塗銷的一個差異我想請"},{"start":480.655,"end":506.311,"text":"複密跟這個徐政次你去做一個參考啦這一些我倒覺得說你現在不分室友輕重都在增加一個三年未在犯罪的室友才可以突銷是不是符合這個國際公約裡面健全少年自我成長跟避免烙印或污名化的一個初衷我們在司法法治委員會裡面我們常常會去談到國際公約對不對 因為"},{"start":510.046,"end":532.197,"text":"兒童權利施行法裡面他就講得很清楚我是今天早上去看 聽到你這樣的一個一個詢打的時候我是嚇一跳因為如果以最高法院歷來的一個見解的話都認為這個施行法是在法律適用的時候是一個特別法"},{"start":534.212,"end":540.818,"text":"我不曉得那個廳長你的看法是怎麼樣因為早上都是你在回答嘛是不是可以就教你一下好不好我的意思就是說兒童權利公約我們內國化以後那你最高法院你一向都是肯認是優先適用是的 我同意委員的說明"},{"start":558.163,"end":581.008,"text":"你同意案,但是你就跟你可以講的不一樣喔我是認為要謹慎你是個在回應社會,不錯社會上很多狀況你就必須要解決老百姓對這個詐騙是非常痛恨的司法院勇於認識,這是好事啊但是我認為你對...因為這一步叫做少年事件處理法你這個是方向在轉彎"},{"start":582.557,"end":607.954,"text":"要小心 這個在對話這個過程裡面應該是是不是再 應該是再 怎麼講 再謹慎一點學者專家是不是比較多元的意見 再納進來一下否則的話 我是比較擔心對於整個兒童的一個保護的一個部分"},{"start":609.315,"end":636.427,"text":"所以會變成為了回應整個社會的一個事件的應對應對這樣的一個結果呢會不會到最後被認為是一個草率因為過去的少年都是在講保護然後呢我們是鞏固他將來發展的一個可能性那變成說你這次的修法裡面草案裡面我看到了變成說你把硬報跟預防都放進來了都放進來了"},{"start":638.496,"end":660.489,"text":"那所以呢跟過去啊如果說你們有什麼意見或確實認為整個少年事件都不應該完全是採這個教化啊寬容啊社會安全網的多元儲育來做一個改善的話那這個部分反而我覺得說也應該啊來講清楚啦來講清楚啦而且又牽扯到整個"},{"start":661.731,"end":683.588,"text":"這個整個聯合國的一個公約我們已經把它內國化了那是不是司法院的立場這個確實不應該只按這個在巡達裡面簡單的幾句話講完以後大家認為就是你代表整個司法院的立場我覺得這個就真的要慎重所以我今天早上一直講說你今天的態度比法務部還"},{"start":686.371,"end":702.668,"text":"還寂靜就已經在這個地方不曉得那個廳長謝謝委員的指教我認為少年復歸社會去處標籤確實是剛剛說的兒權公約的一個明定很清楚那原來的少數還是這樣"},{"start":703.749,"end":715.663,"text":"那麼我們室委員提出來這個版本附條件的這個部分寬延的問題我們接受各界來尋求剛剛委員說的那個內容我同意 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165279","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165279","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3167994802544e1f78abc180ec3481d02a983a9027443261709846c1f907d8ca55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"11:24:42 - 11:36:09","影片長度":"00:11:27","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:24:42+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:36:09+08:00","duration":687,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.5572187500000005,"end":10.375343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.57346875,"end":12.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.931593750000001,"end":30.254093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.65909375,"end":31.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.21159375,"end":35.282843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.75534375,"end":40.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.06284375,"end":39.518468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.48034375,"end":40.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.75034375,"end":40.767218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.85159375,"end":45.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.509093750000005,"end":46.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.977218750000006,"end":47.500343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.27659375,"end":48.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.81221875,"end":52.242218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.83284375,"end":54.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.53721875,"end":54.891593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.07721875,"end":55.71846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.44409375,"end":58.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.09784375,"end":58.367843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.94159375,"end":59.414093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.679718750000006,"end":62.46846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.789093750000006,"end":66.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.00784375,"end":69.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.96096875,"end":72.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.03221875,"end":73.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.65659375,"end":78.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.55034375000001,"end":79.59659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.30534375,"end":86.39721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.34221875,"end":89.72159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.97471875000001,"end":93.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.48034375,"end":95.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.18471875,"end":104.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.28034375,"end":105.93846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.74846875,"end":108.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.95909375000001,"end":126.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.91409375,"end":129.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.96846875,"end":130.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.53784375,"end":132.28034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.32659375,"end":135.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.52034375,"end":137.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.78159375,"end":145.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.42596875,"end":147.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.11346875,"end":148.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.57721875000001,"end":151.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.88471875000002,"end":153.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.88034375,"end":155.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.73221875000002,"end":158.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.18346875,"end":158.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.89221875,"end":159.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.17034375,"end":164.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.22034375,"end":183.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.37346875,"end":186.97221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.95096875000002,"end":190.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.92096875000001,"end":194.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.27471875,"end":208.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.56784375,"end":228.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.80534375000002,"end":231.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.94409375,"end":232.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.14221875,"end":236.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.19221875000002,"end":240.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.12409375000001,"end":254.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.40221875,"end":243.46971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.59596875000003,"end":245.71409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.40034375000002,"end":261.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.79159375,"end":265.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.59284375000004,"end":271.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.60034375000004,"end":272.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.76471875000004,"end":273.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.97534375000004,"end":295.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.61346875000004,"end":302.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.61659375,"end":315.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.80846875000003,"end":318.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.55909375000005,"end":328.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.70096875,"end":332.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.22784375000003,"end":336.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.83909375,"end":341.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.64846875,"end":342.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.13346875,"end":344.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.31471875,"end":346.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.96409375,"end":349.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.25471875,"end":351.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.06034375,"end":352.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.69721875000005,"end":354.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.50284375,"end":366.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.79221875,"end":372.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.57159375000003,"end":375.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.39409375,"end":378.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.62159375000005,"end":386.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.67096875000004,"end":388.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.11784375,"end":390.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.51846875,"end":391.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.54784375,"end":391.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.58159375,"end":417.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.13284375,"end":402.98909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.23596875000004,"end":420.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.03284375000004,"end":425.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.09534375000004,"end":427.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.01909375,"end":429.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.97221875,"end":439.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.00096875,"end":436.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.78909375,"end":442.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.96596875,"end":449.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.30346875000004,"end":443.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.07034375,"end":452.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.31034375,"end":457.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.11159375000005,"end":458.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.99721875,"end":462.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.91221875,"end":462.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.92909375000005,"end":463.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.03034375000004,"end":463.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.04721875,"end":463.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.08096875,"end":463.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.13159375000004,"end":464.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.02596875,"end":464.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.49846875000003,"end":464.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.97096875000005,"end":465.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.08909375,"end":465.35909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.35909375000006,"end":467.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.27846875000006,"end":472.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.07096875,"end":479.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.71596875000006,"end":476.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.72409375,"end":488.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.40721875,"end":482.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.34284375000004,"end":490.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.32159375000003,"end":489.37221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.40596875000006,"end":489.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.76034375,"end":489.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.81096875000003,"end":489.82784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.84471875,"end":504.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.00909375000003,"end":491.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.83159375,"end":493.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.52721875000003,"end":497.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.82971875000004,"end":518.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.49846875,"end":522.9028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.00409375,"end":527.1215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.61971875,"end":527.1553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":527.79659375,"end":528.3703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.9272187500001,"end":529.8047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.14221875,"end":534.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.18784375,"end":536.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.3728437500001,"end":545.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.93784375,"end":542.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.77284375,"end":554.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.48159375,"end":546.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.3290937500001,"end":552.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.1553437499999,"end":554.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.50971875,"end":554.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.5434687500001,"end":558.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.82534375,"end":579.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.1259687500001,"end":581.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.21846875,"end":582.6572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.33221875,"end":586.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.6484687500001,"end":585.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.94346875,"end":586.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.97721875,"end":587.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.0278437500001,"end":602.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.1628437500001,"end":588.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.48284375,"end":592.0734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.13659375,"end":594.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.4184687500001,"end":599.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.6203437500001,"end":602.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.6372187500001,"end":609.1003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":606.63659375,"end":609.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.1003437500001,"end":612.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.0490937500001,"end":614.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.95596875,"end":618.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":619.2253437500001,"end":638.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.1047187500001,"end":636.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.06659375,"end":636.1003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.6909687500001,"end":636.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.4753437500001,"end":639.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.23471875,"end":640.5047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":643.0359687499999,"end":643.9809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.58846875,"end":647.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":647.7778437500001,"end":648.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.24596875,"end":650.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.54971875,"end":650.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.56221875,"end":650.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.66346875,"end":650.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.7309687500001,"end":651.8447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.8190937500001,"end":667.7747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.23596875,"end":659.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":667.69034375,"end":684.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.54409375,"end":686.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.53534375,"end":688.37909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.608,"end":12.272,"text":"好 謝謝趙偉有請次長好 請鄭次長委員長好好 次長好次長 今年這個英雄聯盟世界賽總決賽剛落幕吸引全球673萬人觀看總觀看的時數達到了1.35億的一個小時"},{"start":30.788,"end":59.182,"text":"次長你有沒有看比賽包委員沒有要準備考試囉次長這一次第一名的隊伍是誰包委員不曉得抱歉 韓國T1是T1隊那我們的台灣也有隊伍參加次長知不知道是哪一隊不知道是中信的飛母力CTBCFamily知道大概排名大概多少嗎第二第二"},{"start":60.691,"end":86.152,"text":"他們打進八強但是我要跟大家分享這一次台灣中信的飛母力隊打進八強次長他的獎金我就直接講大概30萬美元30萬美元900多萬的台幣這群孩子我們的年輕人我們所有台灣的年輕人都為他們感到驕傲代表什麼代表我們的孩子有實力"},{"start":87.443,"end":105.475,"text":"有潛力只要給他舞台他們就能夠發光發熱我直接不會言的講電競這個選項是台灣孩子最有機會獲得未來奧運金牌的一個項目之一你認為呢"},{"start":106.792,"end":131.865,"text":"報告委員我同意你的說法但是我要跟次長分享的是我們現在討論到政體就是很諷刺的我們的世界選手在這個國際舞台爭光的同時我們另一頭準備代表台灣出征2026年名古屋亞運電競項目的這些選手卻連能不能開始訓練都還不知道大家一聽"},{"start":133.496,"end":159.454,"text":"奇怪了怎麼會這樣子呢根據我手邊的資料國家運動訓練中心114年5月對不起8月11日就已經發出公文當時同意喔五個參賽項目第一快打旋風第二絕地重生第三英雄聯盟第四寶可夢大集結第五魔法氣泡"},{"start":161.48,"end":186.778,"text":"這個我也希望在座大家一起來關注一下也拜託召委電競是很重要的到了10月初陸續有選手向我陳情表示一直等不到培訓的通知到了了解以後我們才發現其實協會啊早在10月的時候就已經放就已經送出這個相關的培訓計畫希望能夠爭取更多的項目但運動部跟國訓中心就是沒有回覆"},{"start":188.038,"end":206.782,"text":"直到10月21號10月21大家待會看一下這個時間表選訓委員才決意通過同意追加三個項目哪三個永傑無間第五人格跑車浪漫旅7相關的一個遊戲競賽"},{"start":209.959,"end":219.388,"text":"項目大致底定喔 11月4號國訓中心才召開訓輔小組的會議要求協會提供8個參賽項目選手培訓的實施計畫還有教練選手的領選辦法在另案專案討論這些資料協會早已經被託了餒 次長"},{"start":233.206,"end":261.752,"text":"我想請問你不覺得這個行政流程拉的太長了嗎8月到現在11月整整三個月三個月的時間就這樣子流失了我們明年要參加亞運培訓的項目沒有正式核定沒有真的領選辦法通過協會沒有安排選拔比賽無法啟動訓練到現在11月無法啟動訓練我們到底要哪一個人當選手都還不知道"},{"start":262.861,"end":268.269,"text":"我們要怎麼樣參加明年的奧運 亞運市長你知道名古屋亞運計畫是什麼時候要舉辦嗎對不起 亞運預計什麼時候舉辦嗎明年九月九月"},{"start":275.374,"end":294.16,"text":"時間都在流失啊所以也就是說距離開幕賽我們相關不到一年耶我們的選手緊張得要命就只能等公文等補件等審查這樣的行政流程持續的浪費了時間不只是浪費這些選手的青春更是浪費國家栽培選手"},{"start":295.86,"end":317.923,"text":"這樣的效率我們能夠反映整個運動部對於我們現在電競的重視嗎更何況國訓中心公文明擺的指出補助款項適用於亞奧運培訓的隊伍尚未產生的正式培訓隊伍故無法先行補助協會辦理公開的選拔培訓的相關賽事費用這樣子不是很矛盾嗎"},{"start":319.659,"end":335.781,"text":"所以由于尚未核定整个实际赛事的一个项目协会便无法进行选拔没有选拔就不能够启动后续的培训了整个协会战队有心提前训练结果担心最终审核的项目不同"},{"start":336.914,"end":353.896,"text":"所以整個就陷入了僵局啊這樣的行政流程我覺得協會不能動選手不能練就算可以練也都心裡會很擔憂只能被迫無限期的等待我了解國訓中心就是審慎"},{"start":355.563,"end":372.473,"text":"去做把關但是現在距離亞運只剩不到10個月相較之下韓國日本早就已經啟動了我們還在等什麼人家都已經安排好集訓項目的地點然後還有唯獨我們還在卡在這個訓練的程序當中"},{"start":376.428,"end":390.88,"text":"我想請問一下運動部對於電競項目的設定明確審查時間時程有沒有這樣子的一個審查時程去既定送件後幾日一定要完成審核幾日一定要公告有沒有"},{"start":393.425,"end":415.601,"text":"剛剛國訓這邊回報給我除了您剛一開始講的三位已經核定後面追加的因為協會的文件一直有問題所以一直被審查完之後被推薦所以你現在是推給協會就對了不是 那我想說我剛跟國訓講我們主動更積極一點去輔導協會協助他們把這個資料準備好我想這樣子會比較正面不然讓協會一直拖在那邊這樣也不行會影響學生的權益這部分我也請國訓中心"},{"start":416.401,"end":438.824,"text":"我先請問嘛那你有沒有運動部針對電競項目的明確審查期程他其實一直有在接受審查只要進來就有每個禮拜都會審查送件期日內要完成審核有沒有規定問題是他就是審查完他就被退回去了沒關係我先問你嘛就是你說他做得不好我們另外再討論你有沒有一個規定期程我收到件多久一定要審查完"},{"start":440.834,"end":456.891,"text":"收到就會 訓輔會就會去審查可不可以給我一個固定的既有其成我希望看到你們的行政流程有一收到件我不管你對或錯 我就馬上審馬上就知道結果嘛你錯我就給你退啊 沒關係他們現在國訓院說"},{"start":459.133,"end":475.474,"text":"最長兩週之內一定會送訓輔會議去審查兩週內才送訓輔會議能不能兩週內完成審核應該是他兩週之內就會審查啦但是就是問題現在出現在於國訓的要求協會這邊一直沒有辦法"},{"start":476.195,"end":503.892,"text":"达成那我想就是请市长我现在先不讲说你审查一定要达成或是审查一定要通过他就两个礼拜之内一定会审查完我要求的是行政流程要两个礼拜内完成审查他现在是两个礼拜错就给他退件没关系嘛再补件嘛那你辅导的相关机制你也要产生出来啊协会有问题你要加紧的去做辅导因为为什么后面衍生的是选手培训的时间加紧而来啊"},{"start":504.935,"end":524.123,"text":"所以我要拜托啊现在目前如果可以就是两周内一定要完成亚运的电竞专案会议来把这个运动竞技师国训中心共同参与拍板定案是协会通过的这个计划是通过还是没通过两个礼拜可以吗我希望你要承诺啦"},{"start":527.886,"end":535.788,"text":"再來現在兩個禮拜內完成八個項目的正式核定與公告公告可以嗎"},{"start":539.817,"end":558.466,"text":"我想問題癥結還是在於在協會跟國訓之間的這個我跟你講 你說是協會啦但現在協會沒有說是你啦我不知道啦沒關係 我想說請國訓要現在只有你跟我在做相關的對話嘛但是我要講的是最大的受害者是什麼中華民國"},{"start":559.895,"end":581.069,"text":"我們的選手沒有辦法趕快培訓趕快為我們得獎讓我們能夠在國際發光發熱所以整個損失的是我中華民國的驕傲還有這些選手的權益就變成兩個在推來推去最後選手沒辦法好好的做好好的備戰所以我要講的是"},{"start":582.304,"end":599.164,"text":"市長 我看你有股難言啊就是我請國訓 我看你聽到後面給你打帕斯你都覺得 你說不過啊我請他們的支持度要再大一點我覺得就是差在支持度上面還不夠大誰的支持度就是國訓給協會的支持度啦是國訓的支持度也不夠嗎因為國訓他是基本上原則上委託國訓是不是協會的委員去輔導協會國訓是不是協會的"},{"start":602.668,"end":617.938,"text":"不是吧不是對啊所以我來說請國訓直接告訴協會該怎麼做我今天在這邊點出這個問題不管是運動部不管是國訓中心不管是李洋部長不管是現在在我面前的政治長"},{"start":619.541,"end":648.046,"text":"關心此件案件不要再有類似的這樣狀況發生全力的協助整個計劃通過因為不是為了協會因為是為了我們的選手因為是為了我中華民國在未來電競史上的驕傲你可以答應我嗎這個我們會好好做兩個禮拜內完成審查加公告好不好可以不能再拖了亞運的時間都訂好他不會等我們啊可以嗎"},{"start":649.338,"end":678.359,"text":"執行長答應我執行長可不可以現在的問題就是協會提供的資料沒有完整所以我們在審核上我們還是要一定要你要讓我看到你最大程度的去追啊我們會請委員請那個輔導委員盡速的來協助讓協會建立比較完整的國訓中心做選手最大的靠山運動部做選手最大的靠山不是做協會的我今天不是幫協會講話我今天要看到的是趕快抵定我們的選手"},{"start":679.2,"end":684.469,"text":"趕快讓他們趕快訓練 安心備戰拿下亞運的好成績 好不好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165295","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165295","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe366bdcaa809d3873bb3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5c0a24d4c92cf601975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳雪生","委員發言時間":"10:13:28 - 10:26:54","影片長度":"00:13:26","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:13:28+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:26:54+08:00","duration":806,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.56159375,"end":9.075968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.910968750000002,"end":12.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.982218750000001,"end":20.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.344093750000003,"end":23.925968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.465968750000002,"end":28.836593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.680343750000002,"end":34.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.877843750000004,"end":51.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.02721875,"end":51.195968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.752843750000004,"end":55.549718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.29659375000001,"end":55.414718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.752218750000004,"end":56.697218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.321593750000005,"end":60.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.64596875,"end":61.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.063468750000006,"end":62.99159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.548468750000005,"end":65.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.01221875,"end":68.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.18471875,"end":73.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.29784375,"end":75.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.34846875000001,"end":74.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.09096875,"end":75.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.79971875000001,"end":79.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.41096875000001,"end":82.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.03909375,"end":88.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.69659375,"end":89.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.23221875,"end":89.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.41784375,"end":94.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.25284375000001,"end":92.86034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.34971875000001,"end":95.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.74596875,"end":100.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.08721875,"end":106.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.46221875,"end":102.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.93034375,"end":107.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.28409375000001,"end":108.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.97596875,"end":112.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.03034375,"end":113.97096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.36346875000001,"end":114.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.03846875,"end":126.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.78096875000001,"end":119.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.19721875,"end":139.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.54596875000001,"end":134.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.62971875,"end":137.68034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.19909375,"end":139.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.36784375000002,"end":139.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.41846875000002,"end":139.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.02596875,"end":142.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.65846875,"end":145.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.35409375,"end":149.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.77971875,"end":151.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.32784375,"end":153.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.58909375000002,"end":157.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.23846875,"end":157.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.44096875,"end":158.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.45784375000002,"end":158.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.84159375000002,"end":158.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.85846875000001,"end":158.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.87534375,"end":158.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.97659375,"end":159.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.07784375,"end":159.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.43221875,"end":161.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.09846875000002,"end":165.08534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.81096875,"end":167.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.86971875,"end":168.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.82721875000001,"end":170.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.04221875000002,"end":171.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.99971875,"end":173.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.66596875000002,"end":178.11284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.28971875000002,"end":182.41596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.61846875,"end":183.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.96846875,"end":185.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.53784375,"end":188.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.57534375,"end":194.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.81909375,"end":197.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.87346875,"end":199.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.03784375,"end":204.80909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.69596875000002,"end":200.05034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.07909375000003,"end":209.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.34846875000002,"end":210.17534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.52971875,"end":212.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.33096875,"end":215.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.87909375,"end":218.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.81534375,"end":220.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.92471875,"end":222.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.16909375,"end":223.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.64159375000003,"end":225.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.40909375,"end":228.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.48034375,"end":230.94846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.04971875,"end":232.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.92284375000003,"end":233.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.27284375000002,"end":237.14159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.34409375,"end":238.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.21721875000003,"end":242.62596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.89596875,"end":246.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.38471875000002,"end":249.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.94534375,"end":252.75096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.42596875,"end":254.86034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.51846875,"end":256.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.22284375000004,"end":260.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.57659375000003,"end":261.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.59346875,"end":261.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.96471875000003,"end":266.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.26846875,"end":271.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.05596875000003,"end":274.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.92471875,"end":276.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.71346875,"end":278.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.64971875000003,"end":280.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.49346875000003,"end":282.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.04159375,"end":291.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.51284375,"end":291.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.54659375,"end":292.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.63096875,"end":292.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.97659375,"end":295.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.22534375000004,"end":295.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.84971875,"end":298.85346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.06471875,"end":303.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.96284375000005,"end":301.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.15221875000003,"end":308.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.20284375,"end":304.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.68346875000003,"end":311.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.10909375,"end":311.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.34909375,"end":314.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.99846875000003,"end":320.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.67721875,"end":321.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.60534375000003,"end":322.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.03971875,"end":322.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.47846875000005,"end":325.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.05159375,"end":327.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.23284375000003,"end":330.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.56159375000004,"end":334.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.64534375,"end":337.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.10034375000004,"end":342.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.76659375,"end":347.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.89284375,"end":347.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.22534375000004,"end":351.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.55409375000005,"end":353.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.44409375000004,"end":359.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.16034375000004,"end":361.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.89409375,"end":365.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.43784375,"end":368.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.71159375,"end":372.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.81659375000004,"end":374.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.03971875,"end":377.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.68096875000003,"end":384.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.90346875,"end":384.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.21971875,"end":386.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.56534375,"end":390.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.00784375,"end":395.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.73284375000003,"end":397.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.57221875000005,"end":399.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.50034375,"end":400.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.40721875,"end":400.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.44096875,"end":400.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.69409375000004,"end":405.94221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.12784375,"end":411.00471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.55346875000004,"end":411.84846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.27034375000005,"end":412.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.53596875000005,"end":415.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.99971875,"end":417.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.82221875000005,"end":420.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.01596875,"end":428.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.63471875000005,"end":431.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.33471875000004,"end":434.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.27534375000005,"end":435.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.79409375,"end":438.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.40534375000004,"end":441.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.85221875,"end":443.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.86034375,"end":447.28596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.01159375000003,"end":450.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.93096875000003,"end":453.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.30596875000003,"end":461.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.74409375000005,"end":459.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.76471875000004,"end":463.28346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.86596875000004,"end":466.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.02596875,"end":464.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.08034375000005,"end":471.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.34159375,"end":473.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.23971875,"end":473.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.61096875000004,"end":478.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.60596875000005,"end":481.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.18784375,"end":482.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.03159375,"end":482.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.06534375,"end":482.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.18346875000003,"end":483.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.67284375,"end":485.22096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.40659375,"end":486.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.81159375000004,"end":488.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.47784375000003,"end":489.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.72659375,"end":490.67159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.80659375000005,"end":499.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.65034375000005,"end":493.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.57346875,"end":498.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.00784375,"end":501.28596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.47159375,"end":503.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.73284375000003,"end":506.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.82971875000004,"end":506.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.04034375000003,"end":508.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.20471875000004,"end":508.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.82909375,"end":510.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.49971875000006,"end":510.95534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.34346875000006,"end":513.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.76534375000006,"end":512.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.3303437500001,"end":519.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.03846875,"end":520.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.3840937500001,"end":523.0209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.96596875,"end":525.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.4172187500001,"end":526.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.2903437500001,"end":531.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.54284375,"end":533.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.57221875,"end":533.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.80409375,"end":536.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.35221875,"end":537.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.50409375,"end":538.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.69784375,"end":538.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.7822187500001,"end":538.7990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.86659375,"end":538.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.98471875,"end":543.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.96284375,"end":544.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.46471875,"end":551.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.84784375,"end":552.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.19346875,"end":557.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.01971875,"end":560.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.39471875,"end":563.3015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.63471875,"end":567.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.67221875,"end":568.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.4272187500001,"end":570.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.3172187499999,"end":571.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.90784375,"end":576.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.70034375,"end":578.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.55659375,"end":580.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.50971875,"end":594.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.9128437500001,"end":595.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.9084687500001,"end":595.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.5790937500001,"end":600.0890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.9834687499999,"end":601.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.01284375,"end":604.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.6284687500001,"end":606.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.1597187500001,"end":611.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.7665937500001,"end":617.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.85096875,"end":611.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.2390937499999,"end":614.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.93471875,"end":619.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.19596875,"end":618.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.05659375,"end":626.3972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.14096875,"end":621.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.48596875,"end":629.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.10971875,"end":634.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.6240937499999,"end":635.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.3915937500001,"end":639.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.4209687499999,"end":639.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.7578437500001,"end":641.1459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.97284375,"end":644.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.9890937499999,"end":647.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.22909375,"end":654.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.20721875,"end":660.5690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.5984687499999,"end":662.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.93159375,"end":664.9228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.69909375,"end":666.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.15034375,"end":668.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.12471875,"end":670.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.08221875,"end":674.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.58784375,"end":678.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.96284375,"end":680.3972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.8190937500001,"end":682.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.84409375,"end":686.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.1640937500001,"end":691.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.72034375,"end":692.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.6272187500001,"end":694.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.2978437500001,"end":697.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.4197187500001,"end":708.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.1272187500001,"end":707.8359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.07221875,"end":708.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.62909375,"end":709.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.01284375,"end":710.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.04659375,"end":710.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.43471875,"end":714.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":711.6159687500001,"end":712.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.65346875,"end":715.8178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.9697187500001,"end":716.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.2522187500001,"end":717.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.8215937500001,"end":726.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.16659375,"end":726.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.03971875,"end":732.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":732.4397187500001,"end":734.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.19034375,"end":735.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":736.4053437500002,"end":739.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.0334687500001,"end":741.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":741.9740937500001,"end":743.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.59409375,"end":744.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.46721875,"end":747.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":748.1840937500001,"end":749.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.05721875,"end":752.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.5503437500001,"end":755.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":755.82846875,"end":758.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.54096875,"end":761.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.63346875,"end":765.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":765.6497187500001,"end":767.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":769.2609687500001,"end":772.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.7665937500001,"end":774.6609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.4709687500001,"end":777.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":777.95159375,"end":781.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":779.9934687500001,"end":780.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":781.8159687500001,"end":782.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":783.3684687500001,"end":786.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.7097187500001,"end":788.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":788.2453437500001,"end":790.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":790.6584687500001,"end":796.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":790.87784375,"end":790.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":796.6997187500001,"end":798.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":799.0959687500001,"end":800.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":801.55971875,"end":803.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":802.6228437500001,"end":803.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.66909375,"end":805.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":805.5928437500002,"end":805.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":805.9640937500001,"end":806.1159687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.618,"end":34.188,"text":"好 謝謝趙委是不是請邱主委請邱主委 謝謝陳委員好邱主委好 上個禮拜大概陸委會召集的金門馬祖地區這個旅遊局有去說明了也就是公務人員赴大陸金門馬祖的公務人員赴大陸很像回來去的時候要報備回來也要填寫報告有沒有這回事"},{"start":35.73,"end":58.648,"text":"跟委員報告這個是我們依照現行的法律規範訂出來的這些機制就是公務人員復入當然要請假好 我簡單講現在兩岸人民關係條例裡面有規定十一指等還有警監三階還有社民人員 政務人員"},{"start":63.862,"end":73.583,"text":"這些人員是需要的那10億之等以下的公務員是不需要的這裡面有講的不在此限規定的很清楚啊我看過一遍"},{"start":74.369,"end":103.203,"text":"各位把資料也提供給我了對 跟委員報告我們分三大塊是不是這樣第一大塊就是涉密人員 政務人員還有政務官 縣市首長這個還有這些人一般的公務人員不要嘛沒有 要經過機關的同意沒有啊 完成請假程序第九條裡面沒有啊我們內政部有訂我們內政部的一些要點你給我的兩岸關係條例第九條裡面沒有啊"},{"start":104.103,"end":123.878,"text":"兩岸條例有授權內政部有定職法沒有啊我們是不是給委員已經給我資料了嘛資料裡面並沒有這一條有給委員了那你們的兩岸人民關係條例跟內政部定的有抵觸的話誰的大誰的小"},{"start":124.258,"end":148.825,"text":"跟委員報告我們是兩岸條例授權那內政部來定時事細則那確實他有說一定要經過主管機關的同意就是要完成請假的程序好 第二個就是金門馬祖已經也做過國防部做過B級推演了現在金門地區的兩棲偵察連已經移防到澎湖去了有沒有這回事"},{"start":154.622,"end":173.554,"text":"跟委員報告這不在陸委會的權責範圍我們沒辦法回答那現在他們兵推的結果到最後我們目前金門馬祖的兵力大概只有一點點啦不足以防衛啦那一共兩岸交戰我請問金門馬祖獨立作戰是適同放棄嗎跟委員報告我想這個"},{"start":184.008,"end":212.151,"text":"我們當然是從陸委會的政策當然是維護不管是台海的和平穩定或者是金馬的這些安全我們都不希望兩岸兵戎相向我也希望啦希望歸希望啦現在我們已經在朝著戰爭的方向在走我想兩岸勢必一戰我目前的看法是這樣因為什麼呢因為你步入烏克蘭的後塵嘛"},{"start":213.393,"end":242.362,"text":"你不停的加強你的軍備嘛那對岸呢 軍備 你說實在話你買再多的軍備他要吃你的話 你也跑不掉啦那麼今天的陸委會的工作報告大概是這樣啦滾動檢討兩岸法令 健康有序交流第二個是強化兩岸的交流機構機構交流第三個是依法行政 落實兩岸的"},{"start":243.261,"end":271.159,"text":"單一身份制度也就是最近你們在推動的戶籍單一制度第四是大陸配偶家庭保障第五海基會的服務效能第六就是風險的評估我想請問陸委會跟海基會目前在做什麼事情就做這個事嗎當然那是有關於交流的風險不可能健康有序交流啦剛才你也講了嘛他有他的想法你有你的想法"},{"start":272.396,"end":291.836,"text":"兩個是平行線啦不可能有所交集啦那麼這樣下去的話您大陸委員會跟海基會目前在幹什麼跟委員報告我們現在的跟對岸的文教或者各種專業交流商務人士的玩法還是非常的多啦"},{"start":294.162,"end":311.728,"text":"您說官方嗎我們願意啊是他們設置障礙啊你說健康有序嗎不可能這樣兩個是平行線嘛一直在做備戰的準備啦他如果沒有設立政治前提的障礙我們很願意溝通備戰就是戰爭的開始"},{"start":316.038,"end":337.732,"text":"我們遭遇到中共對我們的軍機建造台我們要自我防衛啊現在已經這樣了 你防衛吧 你防衛的了嗎是不是 你是一個小學生 我是一個大學生我今天要打你 我打你就是打你嘛 還有什麼理由的咧我今天就要揍你一頓嘛 有理由嗎 沒有理由嘛"},{"start":339.247,"end":368.471,"text":"總委報告我們面對中共複合性的施壓你講的話四平八穩啦軍區電腦台我們不可能沒有作為啊你懂了沒有好我想問你最近馬祖也發生一些船長這個有關勾那個漁網的事情嘛把我們那個中華二號啊海欄弄斷了他們人怎麼回去還有五個人還沒回去人球丟在馬祖移民署的管轄"},{"start":370.198,"end":390.112,"text":"監獄裡面 牢裡面還有五個人這些人準備怎麼回去我已經跟對岸溝通現在發了一個單一的一次性的大通證已經出來了那你們會不會朝著這個管道沒關係你們走不動那我們明天來走嘛 是不是"},{"start":391.112,"end":411.342,"text":"是 委員謝謝喔 那個五個人是戴遣法只要完成司法程序戴遣法多久了 已經幾年了這個我們必須要尊重司法你不要戴遣法啦 對不對中華民國不見了 你還在那邊戴遣法他就不要你遣法啦他直接來把你人帶走啦所以我們尊重司法程序我們如果有機會我們就會來遣法聽不下去了啦他們是黨領導槍啊還什麼司法不司法的"},{"start":417.913,"end":446.978,"text":"委員我們是文明法治的國家跟他們不一樣你沒有錯嘛今天你是小學生我是大學生我要打你就是要打你我要罵你就是罵你你不准我回嘴你回嘴我就揍你就這麼回事啊現在整個世界局勢環境的現實就是這樣嘛你說怎麼辦呢好我因為時間關係我繼續問你現在我們人民可以去大陸我們老百姓每個去大陸要去四川去重慶哪裡今天我要買了機票坐飛機走了嘛"},{"start":448.069,"end":460.925,"text":"大陸人民不能過來 什麼意思跟委員報告沒有團進團出嘛 是不是不是 我們正在透過觀光小兩會跟他們談談了沒有談了沒有只能到金門馬祖嗎只能到金門馬祖 台灣能不能進來"},{"start":467.13,"end":477.497,"text":"台灣還是需要透過小兩會的溝通這健康有序我答得比你快啦不是健康有序要先溝通完再進來好溝通多久了我們從二月給他喊什麼二月今年二月給他喊溝通三年多了我們在看啦疫情以後不准人家進來他們想來欸你們不准他來啊"},{"start":490.871,"end":500.135,"text":"我們希望觀光小兩會能夠先溝通再讓他們來把過去的觀光亂象說停就停的問題把它解決掉各位跟誰溝通跟誰溝通我們跟對岸的海旅會那個對岸的觀光小兩會海旅會有溝通嗎海基會有溝通嗎不是是台旅會跟對岸觀光小兩會有沒有溝通有 目前我們就我們目前就給他喊希望他趕快積極的回應你的喊已經擺在那裡躺在那裡我知道啦"},{"start":521.411,"end":543.243,"text":"他連看都不看你一眼啦你擺在那裡幹什麼囉你要跟他健康有序要我中華民國跟你中華人民共和國對談他不跟你談嘛如果他們那麼粗暴那麼野蠻還讓他們來觀光而完全沒有設防你讓他來觀光嘛連觀光都不允許現在只有商務可以來啊我們"},{"start":545.509,"end":567.863,"text":"如果在國家安全的前提下我們恢復兩岸觀光交流也是我們的政策你慢慢國家安全嘛等到濱林沉下你還在那邊講那麼安全還在講國家安全這個沒有不健康嘛是不是你起碼把人先給他放進來嘛我們的人可以去他們人不可以來這什麼話只能到金門馬祖還有"},{"start":572.048,"end":595.336,"text":"金門那邊以後已經一百多萬人到那邊觀光了馬祖兩三千個人你們視而不見了管還是不管我們當然也很關切為什麼到金門的人比較穩定到馬祖的人比較少那當然跟這個馬祖的觀光資源的形態有關那我們也希望我很不想看你的預算說真的"},{"start":602.065,"end":629.577,"text":"但是你們兩百多個人放在那邊幹什麼就是那些健康有序啊對牛談情啊無病呻吟就是搞這些事情嗎是不是跟委員報告我們同仁我想耳朵非常的審柏洋委員的事情現在只有韓國瑜能守護他嗎守護台灣我們同仁盡了大量的努力大家看得到他你也很努力大家都很努力那呼口號嘛"},{"start":630.217,"end":638.46,"text":"中華民國萬歲萬萬歲在呼口號我們職責所在 依法行政同仁們都進了很多的 做了很多重要的工作主委 你今天這個齁 還有海基會海基會預算要不要刪今天的反對黨不跟你玩什麼統三百分之三 一條一條來"},{"start":654.711,"end":664.174,"text":"衛生紙絕對不刪 汽油不刪 租賃費不刪你說水電費不夠 絕對不會刪你的刪你什麼 你們這些人養在那邊幹什麼養那麼多人幹什麼你說預算不應該凍結嗎 應該要凍結嘛你說該不該凍結 起碼凍結你一半還對你客氣把人凍結了以後怎麼辦 這些都是編制內的人員你們海基會 海協會 本身的編制組織"},{"start":682.95,"end":696.652,"text":"你們的功能架構不用檢討嗎所以請你回去啊五月夢回拜託您不要再繼續的健康有序交流好不好健康有序交流啊非常的不健康而且不務實際好不好"},{"start":698.702,"end":716.81,"text":"跟委員報告 陸委會的工作同仁都非常的努力都在守護台灣 捍衛我們國家主權安全我知道很努力啊 沒有功能嘛你不能說這個是沒功能這樣對我們同仁不公平啊我長不出苗來 因為我不懂"},{"start":718.271,"end":744.016,"text":"因為我不懂啊面對中共對於我們複合性的施壓步步進逼我們不能沒有作為守護台灣是我們最重要的事情你這靠老美嘛還什麼作為呢今天講白了一點講穿了就這麼回事嘛老美敢你把你賣掉的時候你就完了啦是不是這樣我們今天已經在逐漸步入備戰你要告訴全國的民眾喔我們已經在備戰我們在東引"},{"start":745.712,"end":774.273,"text":"馬祖東引地區部署的雄風飛彈 天空飛彈雄風雄二飛彈是針對海峽的天空飛彈針對空中的一旦低級的時候 我們整個東引島毀滅你有沒有幫我們東引想一想要不要給老百姓戰爭風險的補償費我覺得我們整個政府要去想一想最先死的 死的最快的就是我們馬祖的東引你有想一想嗎"},{"start":775.509,"end":802.369,"text":"所以兩岸的領導人喔真的好好去思考一下不要身臨土炭好不好陸委會做你的事情我不會砍你的預算啦基於你跟我兩個人的交情喔我不會砍你的預算但你不能長此以往下去啊你不能每天在那邊健康有序要幹什麼你替陸委會整個維護我我很了解啦我弟弟本身也在陸委會服務過嘛但是不可以這樣一直下去啦好不好謝謝啦謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":805.682,"end":805.702,"text":"好"}]}},{"id":"165294","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165294","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3f0e66242bab596dcb3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5cd7dcd980b23cef445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"10:05:07 - 10:13:18","影片長度":"00:08:11","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:05:07+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:13:18+08:00","duration":491,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.80221875,"end":6.494093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.523468750000001,"end":8.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.62034375,"end":9.430343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.923468750000001,"end":13.193468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.379093750000003,"end":14.172218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.391593750000002,"end":17.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.437843750000003,"end":15.927218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.05346875,"end":23.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.38596875,"end":23.774093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.94284375,"end":26.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.38971875,"end":32.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.35909375,"end":34.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.70909375,"end":40.041593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.64471875,"end":44.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.424718750000004,"end":49.626593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.09909375,"end":62.063468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.132843750000006,"end":50.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.195343750000006,"end":56.039093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.44409375,"end":56.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.45159375,"end":67.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.32409375,"end":71.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.02409375,"end":71.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.91846875,"end":75.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.71534375,"end":82.75221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.12346875,"end":85.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.04721875,"end":90.54846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.81034375,"end":89.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.55284375000001,"end":92.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.58221875000001,"end":91.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.84346875,"end":96.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.99534375,"end":93.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.78409375000001,"end":96.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.55596875,"end":101.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.83784375,"end":102.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.07409375,"end":104.95971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.10784375,"end":102.17534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.02721875,"end":107.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.60034375000001,"end":115.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.14784375,"end":119.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.02909375,"end":122.59409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.96534375,"end":125.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.09159375,"end":125.41221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.93534375,"end":125.96909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.96909375000001,"end":126.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.81284375000001,"end":128.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.81221875,"end":131.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.84159375000002,"end":140.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.97596875000002,"end":136.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.53221875,"end":144.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.42596875,"end":145.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.44284375,"end":145.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.91534375,"end":147.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.93221875,"end":146.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.95721875,"end":150.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.58971875,"end":150.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.60659375,"end":159.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.97784375,"end":151.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.53034375000001,"end":152.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.20534375,"end":153.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.97221875,"end":162.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.23784375,"end":167.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.12284375000002,"end":173.13471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.37096875,"end":175.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.18909375,"end":177.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.06221875,"end":179.04096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.07034375,"end":181.96034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.77034375000002,"end":184.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.35659375,"end":184.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.67721875,"end":189.90846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.67659375000002,"end":207.37409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.62721875000003,"end":213.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.09096875,"end":210.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.62659375,"end":212.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.14534375000002,"end":220.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.71784375000001,"end":224.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.22784375,"end":227.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.94471875000002,"end":228.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.17659375000002,"end":230.39159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.01596875,"end":231.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.55159375000002,"end":234.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.88034375,"end":239.68971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.94284375,"end":239.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.95971875,"end":247.30034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.53659375,"end":263.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.55096875000004,"end":270.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.99284375,"end":283.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.96971875,"end":304.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.30471875,"end":300.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.43909375000004,"end":305.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.99159375,"end":310.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.85159375,"end":319.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.76159375000003,"end":321.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.57971875000004,"end":325.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.34721875,"end":326.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.18659375000004,"end":338.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.77159375,"end":349.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.14659375,"end":340.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.83846875,"end":341.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.10346875000005,"end":346.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.16221875,"end":361.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.63409375000003,"end":352.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.39221875000004,"end":364.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.81784375,"end":370.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.30221875,"end":393.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.42971875,"end":391.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.45471875000004,"end":401.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.47159375,"end":395.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.74034375,"end":415.18971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.42596875000004,"end":420.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.51034375,"end":416.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.64909375,"end":419.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.42096875000004,"end":424.04909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.45471875000004,"end":420.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.50096875,"end":421.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.17159375,"end":427.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.38659375000003,"end":424.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.03159375,"end":440.50221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.23784375,"end":431.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.03096875,"end":433.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.76034375,"end":436.24971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.11034375,"end":437.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.26596875,"end":440.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.56971875000005,"end":473.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.71596875,"end":450.17159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.76971875000004,"end":457.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.44221875000005,"end":487.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.90409375,"end":488.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.24159375000005,"end":490.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.19909375000003,"end":491.48159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.85284375000003,"end":492.15659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.094,"end":25.739,"text":"謝謝主席邱主委有請請邱主委劉委好主委早安政治表態不如解決方法大家今天包含媒體朋友大家都很關心這個沈伯央委員遇到了這樣子的一個威脅是我是覺得有一點為他感到不止"},{"start":26.448,"end":48.523,"text":"因為都已經被威脅 確實是遇到了一些危險 一些困難啦在國內還要被你們這樣消費 我是覺得很糟糕啦我的意思是說 講這個事情 我請問邱主委今天大家講說我們一起聲援他 改變了聊什麼現實嗎最主要是要讓老共的跨境鎮壓沒有效果他這個跨境鎮壓就是在恫嚇你以及分化我們國內的團結"},{"start":50.137,"end":71.228,"text":"跨境鎮壓對不對如果大家講了一致的這個宣示我們當然要保護他嘛對不對大家都中華民國國民對不對不管他是不是立法委員我們都不希望中華民國國民受到威脅但我們這樣講又怎麼樣呢他具體來講他會改變什麼你有多大的把握他會具體的改變一些現狀跟狀況還是只是純粹國內的政治考量你不希望造成國內的恐慌"},{"start":71.974,"end":101.583,"text":"他就是要製造我們的 恫嚇我們跟分化我們那我們反而面對這個挑戰每一次的挑戰我們都把它轉換為我們台灣韌性的提升他的恫嚇讓我們更團結所以到最後還是要考國內政治的考量還是大過一屆所以我講你不要消費人家這個對兩岸關係也很不好兩岸關係也很不好我們待會都會在這個題目裡面去做討論嘛本期的主張是這樣的具體的保護啊比起立場的表述它一定更有意義嘛"},{"start":103.243,"end":128.711,"text":"現在沈博洋委員遇到這樣的狀況全世界各地他還剩哪些國家可以去你們有沒有清單跟委員報告我們看到中共跟其他六十幾個國家有簽引渡協議的國家我想這裡面絕大部分的特別是民主國家他不會再引渡這個政治犯良心犯我們沈博洋委員他能不能去越南"},{"start":130.871,"end":147.447,"text":"你有辦法把握講嗎我想我們過去也說跟中國大陸關係比較密切比較密切容易受到中國大陸影響的國家但是風險當然會比較高對啊我現在就要問風險清單嘛所以他能不能去越南他能不能去柬埔寨我想行前你會不會建議他不要去"},{"start":148.284,"end":177.183,"text":"我們現在行前要審慎評估啦行前審慎評估好 他能不能去土耳其我想我們的外交部門也會積極的去嗆各國他安全的不僅是沈伯央位置我們國人都一樣今天大家要聽到的其實是這樣嘛也就是說我們基於保護他安全的實際作為是什麼比如說我剛問他能不能去越南你講越南什麼樣什麼樣的關係我不建議他去可能會有危險對不對大家聽到才安心嘛他能不能去土耳其他能不能去白俄羅斯"},{"start":178.104,"end":206.298,"text":"他能不能去塔吉克他能不能去摩洛哥或埃及就這些東西才是大家要聽到的嘛是對不對你是講民主國家民主國家他都可以去這些都有一點尷尬這些具體的事我想我們外交部門啊都在積極的在協助畢竟他是我們的國會議員那去做參訪我想我們外交部門都會來積極協助不僅是省委員啦一些被這個成都22條"},{"start":208.199,"end":231.494,"text":"這個已經鎖定的這些對象或是名單裡面的人我們都一樣要保護他們你們也有一個相對的風險控管的名單嘛也就是說可能被對岸列為接下一段下一階段目標的各種中華民國國民的名單有嗎有多少個人在裡面啊你們是評估啊跟委員報告齁這個我們說我們國人赴各國去齁"},{"start":233.474,"end":254.279,"text":"從結果論來看會配合中共引渡政治犯的國家他應該案例極少極少我跟你講總統昨天出來開了記者會然後現在大家今天在那邊這邊說你竟然是要要求韓國瑜院長表態那重點不在這裡嘛總統出來開記者會講說我們已經把所有相對紅燈危險黃燈危險相對安全的國家我已經做了做了明確的區分"},{"start":254.739,"end":270.206,"text":"我們針對接下來中華民國國民哪一些人可能也會遇到這樣的狀況我名單有掌握有做預警這叫安定國人這叫方法結果我們的政府沒有提出任何安定的具體方法然後搞政治表態主委你覺得這樣是最好的方式嗎"},{"start":271.035,"end":287.192,"text":"跟委員報告我覺得第一時間國人要團結一心一致對外這個對老共的這個回擊是最有利我們不接受你跨境鎮壓對於我們的恫嚇分化你的具體的做法就是最明確的宣示嘛"},{"start":287.592,"end":305.069,"text":"你的這樣的做法出來之後國人我相信大家都會支持也才會團結結果你沒有第一時間端出方法你反而第一時間要大家做政治表態這不叫解決問題這叫消費這個事件我提醒你還有一點時間趕快來處理政治表態不如解決方法好 再來"},{"start":306.435,"end":332.003,"text":"最近我們陸委會跟海基會的預算還是有明顯的增加但是我看了一下報章雜誌媒體報導跟相關的新聞露出基本上都是互相校正佔了絕大多數的比例你們現在到底是交流還是對抗各位委員我們一直強調我們要希望交流取代圍堵用對話取代對抗還是我們的政策主軸"},{"start":332.85,"end":351.862,"text":"我們對於正常健康有序的良性互動我們都會繼續協助這我們都聽了你報告也講了我們大概書面也看了你們現在跟海基會有沒有一個明確的分工你們誰上黑臉誰上白臉因為現在局勢不太好這是個客觀事實我們不是扮演黑白臉我們是工人的分工"},{"start":352.702,"end":370.033,"text":"有關於跟民眾的這個服務的案件我們跟中國大陸可能進行協商和兩岸交流海基會是我們政府唯一委託的這個中介團體其實上它一年都有30萬件的服務案件"},{"start":370.373,"end":389.149,"text":"我知道 你的服務案件我一向不挑剔的這個沒有問題 大家都做得很好但問題是啊 這個政治溝通的角色不管是陸委會還是海基會現在第一看不出有什麼明確的分工第二重點是看不出成果如果今天兩岸的管道相對暢通有序今天省博安委員會不會發生因為有一個管道在為總體的風險進行降溫但現在是因為局勢不好"},{"start":393.573,"end":414.967,"text":"能了解委員講的管道我們過去跟對岸的各種溝通聯繫其實我們持續在維持維護著但是中國大陸他基於要我們先接受他的政治前提這個政治前提的框架裡面沒有中華民國生存的空間所以我們不會去答應他的政治前提"},{"start":415.487,"end":432.69,"text":"我們每次的民調主流民意也告訴我們不贊成我們接受中共的政治前提去跟中國大陸進行官方互動如果是這樣我今天沒有在談你官方互動是什麼因為中華民國的外交處境本來就很困難兩岸關係也非常複雜所以你手段要靈活所以我才問"},{"start":433.371,"end":448.045,"text":"你跟海基會怎麼分工有沒有跑位對不對是因為基於靈活嘛那靈活最後的結果我們都還是要看具體成果嘛那現在具體成果是我沒有講你一定什麼官式的互動或什麼東西你各式各樣的方法都可以但各式各樣的方法要降低兩岸的總體風險嘛"},{"start":449.947,"end":476.401,"text":"這當然也不純然是你們的責任啦畢竟這是路線的問題啊但客觀的現實我要在最後的時間我提醒一下邱主委羅秘書長吳董事長也都在聽沒有關係總體的風險升高代表的是雙邊溝通的失靈也代表中國大陸單邊主義的機會會增加他不會再管我們島內在想什麼不會再管我們國民的情感跟立場啦他會搞他自己的政治進程這件事是很危險的"},{"start":477.381,"end":490.039,"text":"像沈博洋委員的事情可能會越來越多所以我剛才花時間問你這個清單準備好了沒風險控管好了沒 相關名單準備好了沒國人要看到的是這個請陸委會 海基會都好好加油謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165293","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165293","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3ce5c8d4b3e7730bab3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5cd7dcd980b23cef445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"09:57:18 - 10:05:01","影片長度":"00:07:43","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T09:57:18+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T10:05:01+08:00","duration":463,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.13159375,"end":7.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.9790937500000005,"end":8.907218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.923468750000001,"end":13.615343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.78409375,"end":24.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.02284375,"end":30.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.06409375,"end":43.619093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.10846875,"end":50.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.50409375,"end":58.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.367843750000006,"end":60.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.55346875,"end":90.37971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.50221875000001,"end":93.11346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.21471875,"end":95.66159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.83034375000001,"end":102.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.59721875000001,"end":105.76971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.87096875,"end":112.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.24159375,"end":113.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.21159375,"end":115.27034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.81909375000001,"end":124.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.48096875,"end":118.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.11284375000001,"end":129.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.70721875000001,"end":129.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.47909375,"end":131.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.37346875,"end":130.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.40721875,"end":132.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.25909375,"end":133.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.93409375000002,"end":135.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.30534375000002,"end":142.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.65096875,"end":140.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.12284375000002,"end":146.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.70909375000002,"end":144.00846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.64534375,"end":163.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.66034375,"end":157.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.86221875,"end":162.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.12784375,"end":188.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.25034375,"end":196.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.11409375000002,"end":220.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.83096875,"end":200.08409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.07659375,"end":226.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.67909375000002,"end":231.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.07909375000003,"end":234.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.49221875,"end":235.43721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.14596875,"end":236.29784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.29784375000003,"end":236.34846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.34846875000002,"end":240.09471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.87159375000002,"end":244.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.35596875000002,"end":251.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.19096875000002,"end":245.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.24096875,"end":249.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.98346875000001,"end":250.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.80596875,"end":267.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.46284375,"end":262.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.60971875,"end":272.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.66346875,"end":285.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.11721875,"end":307.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.91409375,"end":289.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.94221875,"end":298.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.89096875,"end":302.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.13096875,"end":305.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.49784375,"end":308.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.83096875,"end":326.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.40721875,"end":319.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.71096875,"end":319.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.52846875,"end":347.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.00846875,"end":333.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.55471875,"end":353.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.98409375,"end":356.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.58721875000003,"end":362.23596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.33721875000003,"end":379.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.61284375,"end":390.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.59471875,"end":393.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.79221875,"end":397.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.60596875000005,"end":400.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.79534375000003,"end":405.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.89596875,"end":407.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.05159375000005,"end":408.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.16534375000003,"end":413.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.68846875,"end":410.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.93284375,"end":417.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.02534375000005,"end":414.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.34159375,"end":416.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.45096875,"end":424.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.30659375000005,"end":423.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.79159375,"end":433.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.21346875,"end":425.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.12784375,"end":453.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.03471875,"end":435.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.32534375,"end":438.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.04659375000006,"end":440.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.59471875,"end":442.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.33221875000004,"end":448.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.34409375,"end":456.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.59721875,"end":460.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.00159375000004,"end":460.92096875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.589,"end":8.77,"text":"謝謝主席啊我們請我們的陸委會邱主委邱主委"},{"start":13.092,"end":40.744,"text":"許委好邱主委好邱主委我想昨天我們賴清德總統喊話韓國瑜院長應該要聲援沈博洋那一時之間其實我們都有點錯亂怎麼會現任的總統對於這樣的兩岸事務沒有擔當而是要立法院的院長出來解決是不是代表說現在的總統他沒有能力解決兩岸的問題所以要"},{"start":41.508,"end":68.901,"text":"韓國瑜院長出來處理呢是跟委員報告我想總統的意思是因為要團結國人的意志來共同反對中國這種跨境鎮壓不管是對我們國會議員還是對國人的恫嚇與分化我們應該團結一致不分朝野一般人的感受不是這樣所以我在這邊有個建議啦其實我們在立法院有可以成立一個叫立法院兩岸事務因應對策小組"},{"start":71.238,"end":95.226,"text":"來去因應像這樣的事情所以那是由誰擔任召集人是由韓國瑜院長擔任召集人那既然行政體系沒有辦法賴清德總統覺得他沒辦法做到那我們是不是可以來成立一個立法院兩岸事務因應對策小組來去因應這相關的事宜呢我們尊重貴院的決定所以主委也贊成囉"},{"start":95.936,"end":104.647,"text":"也贊成這樣的兩岸事務其實是可以由立法院這邊來行政體系做不好所以由立法院來處理囉是這樣嗎我想大院是"},{"start":106.232,"end":131.259,"text":"最主要的民意代表機關如果不分朝野團結一致來一致對外兩岸的事務賴清德總統沒有辦法處理所以要由立法院來處理要不然怎麼會第一時間是喊話我們韓國瑜院長要出來因為沈委員是大院的委員沈委員是不是中華民國的國民也是中華民國的總統是誰"},{"start":134.374,"end":161.943,"text":"我們也強調既然主委也同意我們也希望今天針對省委員其實他是對全體國民的集體吸引如果陸委會也覺得說應該目前你們也沒辦法處理行政體制沒辦法處理那就由我們立法院是不是來處理那當然接下來要請教的是陸委會的主委就是明年的APEC比較特別他會在大陸的深圳舉行"},{"start":163.24,"end":188.443,"text":"那其實現在他已經也這個北京方面公開宣誓說必須接受一中原則作為前提那這是過去從來沒有出現過的爭執框架意味著台灣如果接受就要在國際場合放棄主權那如果拒絕就可能遭到中國已主辦方的身份直接封殺而且明年的這個APEC的深圳在深圳舉行我方"},{"start":189.759,"end":194.629,"text":"之前你們的副主委有開一個記者會說會努力堅守台灣的會員國地位與尊嚴"},{"start":197.148,"end":219.336,"text":"那APEC當然不是只是一個經濟平台也是一個外交舞台所以每一次的與會其實都是對台灣尊嚴的考驗但是光是說堅守尊嚴容易真正做到卻很難所以請教邱主委針對陸方所提出的一中原則的前提陸委會是不是已經準備好了是不是有掌握中方的盤算跟紅線"},{"start":221.138,"end":234.875,"text":"跟委員報告我們跟中國大陸都是APEC的正式會員過去APEC的場域不存在中共所謂的一中原則所以面對這樣的無理打壓跟他過去"},{"start":236.135,"end":239.797,"text":"所以我請教你你們是不是已經有了對策他說對所有的會員國都不歧視原則這部分我知道但我的意思是我們一直講說我們堅守尊嚴這是必要的但是作為是什麼我現在要請教您"},{"start":253.503,"end":262.228,"text":"目前因為明年度的在深圳的EPIC還有很多的不確定性那我們會協助主管機關做好各種審慎評估我們都有在為未來做審慎評估那你們有沒有針對最壞情境的狀況之下實施Plan B的計畫呢"},{"start":272.717,"end":279.624,"text":"是 我們都不排除 我們都會審慎評估我想現在已經向美國國務院 就向中國表達沒有所謂的這個一中原則來處理我們的參與我想邱主委 我們要的是一個清楚的答覆而不是像這樣子很空泛的一個政治的這個發言我覺得陸委會既然針對這個算是明年的事情"},{"start":296.46,"end":307.224,"text":"可是這個姿勢體大非常的重要所以陸委會應該要提前因應不管是跟我們其他各部會大家共同來研商我們針對這樣的問題要如何解決我們已經積極因應了當然在103年的時候APEC也在北京舉行那當時呢中方沒有依慣例派出特使來遞送我們的邀請函而是由國台辦的副主任當時的龔清蓋副主任出面那這樣子的做法這個梁文傑副主委說這個"},{"start":327.142,"end":344.517,"text":"103年的做法是矮化我們中方的表現那明年會在深圳舉行那如果到時候他們所派第一個也沒有派特使第二個可能比這個台辦副主任更低的層級來去遞送這個邀請函請問要怎麼回應"},{"start":347.571,"end":370.306,"text":"我想必須依照國際慣例過去APEC的一些慣例來向我方遞出邀請函對 但103年的時候就沒有嘛103年的時候國台辦的副主任那現在請教如果這個時候他們給的成績可能更低可能連國台辦的副主任都沒有也沒有特使的狀況之下你是不是已經跟外交部協調訂出我方對於對方遞送這個邀請函的成績"},{"start":375.751,"end":379.432,"text":"稱為會議接待跟代表安排的一個底線呢是我們會努力爭取我們參與以及剛剛說的必須要來跟我們遞件符合過去APEC這個國際觀念好那如果沒有這樣的一個做法的話那到底請問主委他們來的時候如果層級更低的話你們是接還是不接那個這個就是違反他過去主辦"},{"start":401.906,"end":424.879,"text":"這個時候對國際社會所說不歧視原則的違反對那您是接還是不接那個還沒有發生的問題我們會我們是要面對對你要去設想所有的狀況你不可能是發生之後然後到時候才說好我接或不接現在你就要設想到底如果這樣的狀況我要怎麼做那樣的狀況我要怎麼做嘛對不對是"},{"start":425.279,"end":428.401,"text":"我們當然跟委員的立場一樣會堅定這個我們的國家的立場跟我們參加國際主委我只是要提醒你的就是說堅守地位跟尊嚴絕對不是口號一定要有作為那所謂的作為你們一定要審慎的評估完善才不能才不會去這個"},{"start":445.219,"end":452.508,"text":"我們的主權尊嚴的部分絕對不容踐踏那這也是陸委會必須要審慎去評估否則還需要陸委會做什麼是我們會從相關主管機關一起來努力不要認為時間還早時間很快就到了是了解一定要提前的因應是好嗎謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"165282","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165282","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3fa3dc5f35d68cd0d8abc180ec3481d02a983a902744326177676b3772217087c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林沛祥","委員發言時間":"11:36:20 - 11:47:20","影片長度":"00:11:00","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:36:20+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:47:20+08:00","duration":660,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.2122187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.08034375,"end":9.227843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.548468750000001,"end":10.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.915343750000002,"end":11.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.758468750000002,"end":17.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.00284375,"end":22.137218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.33971875,"end":31.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.07659375,"end":51.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.68534375,"end":56.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.35534375,"end":66.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.41284375000001,"end":77.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.29721875,"end":83.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.10221875,"end":102.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.44534375,"end":107.65971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.01409375,"end":119.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.40534375,"end":115.91159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.72159375000001,"end":122.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.29034375,"end":127.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.23471875000001,"end":132.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.39846875,"end":133.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.22096875,"end":153.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.77909375000002,"end":161.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.18284375000002,"end":167.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.93721875,"end":172.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.35409375,"end":175.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.65346875,"end":174.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.77159375000002,"end":174.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.21034375000002,"end":177.74159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.04971875,"end":178.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.60221875000002,"end":204.65721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.65721875000003,"end":222.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.79221875000002,"end":205.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.95221875000001,"end":207.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.19659375,"end":209.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.98784375000002,"end":223.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.18596875,"end":254.48909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.71659375,"end":256.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.73346875000004,"end":262.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.96971875,"end":257.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.48784375,"end":264.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.99784375,"end":267.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.71471875000003,"end":269.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.38534375,"end":270.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.50346875,"end":272.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.65534375000004,"end":272.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.49471875,"end":272.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.51159375000003,"end":272.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.08534375,"end":280.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.10221875,"end":273.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.12721875,"end":276.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.10096875,"end":327.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.71409375,"end":333.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.02534375000005,"end":362.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.59034375000005,"end":363.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.51409375000003,"end":378.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.12784375,"end":379.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.22471875,"end":380.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.94596875,"end":384.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.01721875000004,"end":398.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.93909375000004,"end":407.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.76471875000004,"end":412.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.94534375,"end":416.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.58596875,"end":423.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.94784375,"end":460.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.44409375000004,"end":467.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.97471875,"end":469.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.54409375000006,"end":476.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.39534375000005,"end":476.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.07034375,"end":503.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.37409375000004,"end":523.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.7422187500001,"end":526.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.49721875,"end":526.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.2690937500001,"end":528.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.2859687499999,"end":529.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.30284375,"end":529.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.61909375,"end":558.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.42034375,"end":582.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.99471875,"end":585.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.7665937500001,"end":589.1709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.3022187500001,"end":587.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.1709687499999,"end":593.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.2334687499999,"end":598.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.9753437500001,"end":601.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.5403437500001,"end":657.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.81846875,"end":657.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.83534375,"end":658.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.4597187500001,"end":658.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.7297187500001,"end":659.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.19784375,"end":660.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.9740937500001,"end":661.34534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":11.583,"text":"請分享委員資訊好 謝謝主席尤其鄭次長好 鄭次長請喂好 次長早"},{"start":18.804,"end":44.202,"text":"110年度的体育金费高达248亿那我们基隆啊我是基隆选出来的区域立委那在基隆这个台湾头我们常年面临着运动平权的挑战我们有全台湾最恶劣的运动气候那最沉重的历史历史长管折旧因此本席就是要再检验运动部这248亿的预算"},{"start":44.702,"end":66.505,"text":"如何具體落實在我們基隆市民身上要確保運動平權不是一句空話那我第一個想問的就是有關基隆的這個國家羽球館的案子在今年9月26號的時候李洋部長特地來我辦公室跟本席明確表示基隆的國家羽球館計畫沒有喊停"},{"start":67.506,"end":76.856,"text":"但是市長基隆市民需要的不是一句沒有喊停的保證我們要的是具體啟動的時程所以請問市長"},{"start":78.356,"end":101.832,"text":"国家基隆的国家羽球馆的预算跟时程目前是如何?报告委员,我们因应运动部的成立,所以我们现在正在将各个委员以及地方的县市政府的一些需求,我们自己去盘点,包括全民运动以及专项的运动馆等等的一些需求,我们把它盘点起来会送行政院这边来做审查。"},{"start":102.552,"end":119.147,"text":"所以目前的進度是我們還沒有送出運動部但是您的這個基隆高中那個羽球館的部分我們目前是有先納進來接下來希望能夠一起把它送出去所以目前還所以科目編號沒有計畫名稱沒有核定預算金額跟整體計畫時程都沒有"},{"start":122.369,"end":139.498,"text":"目前還沒有因為我們9月9號才剛成立所以這件事情是才剛開始進行部長為什麼我會把這個案子拿出來講因為這是兩位總統給基隆市民的承諾那我甚至在李洋部長來的時候我甚至跟他半開玩笑的說你拿到第一次奧運冠軍的時候"},{"start":141.039,"end":166.858,"text":"蔡英文总统跑来基隆说我们基隆值得一个新的国家级羽球馆要把这个运动发扬光大顺便也是纪念说我们基隆我们台湾有机会拿到奥运冠军结果他拿了第二个的时候刚好烂心的总统也跑来说我们基隆的国家级羽球馆应该要成立可是问题是说只听楼梯响没有见到人影那变成是说"},{"start":168.027,"end":172.661,"text":"市長你認為說讓兩任總統的承諾就這樣落空是好事嗎"},{"start":173.447,"end":198.535,"text":"包委員這已經拖了至少幾年五年我們在體育署時代的時候去年年底的時候我們其實有送一案那當然有把這裡面納進來可是當時案子當然蠻多的當時的行政院的指示是希望說9月9號運動部成立之後我們重新排盤點然後重新來做一個申請所以這部分抱歉委員我們目前的確還在盤整當中"},{"start":199.195,"end":216.941,"text":"但是并没有把基隆高中的羽球馆就此就删掉了应该因为那时候我跟李洋部长讨论出来不是基隆高中羽球馆而是基隆的国家级羽球馆为什么因为我们也很担心说未来这个羽球馆落成之后应该花了不少的经费但是落成之后变文字馆"},{"start":217.601,"end":236.043,"text":"所以说只是拿来当做一个所谓的新少年羽球训练中心其实是不够的就朝向多功能比较好没错朝向多功能比较好甚至说我们要的是一座能够办BWF也就是Badminton World Conference的这个世界的巡回赛的国际国家级场馆国际级场馆"},{"start":236.443,"end":252.035,"text":"那同時之間當然使用者付費的前提之下他平日也會讓基隆市民學生上班族甚至北北基的這些學生上班族繼續裡面打球讓運動的全民體育館那所以說部長你現在對場館的規格有任何的計畫嗎目前我們是朝向3億的一個預算來做盤點規劃那是什麼超級500超級750還是更高"},{"start":266.055,"end":280.317,"text":"包委我們現在並沒有往這部分目前還沒有針對這個分級的部分目前的確還沒有因為五年了因為基隆市這邊也要提出申請針對這一塊告訴我們他想要什麼樣的規格"},{"start":281.161,"end":310.901,"text":"我觉得这个事情基隆市会很积极的去做因为从上一任市长林佑昌到这一任市长谢国良跟我的前任蔡世英委员到现在我想每个人只要是基隆的民意代表都非常关心这个案子所以说甚至这样讲为什么会特地提到说希望大家都可以使用因为我们也考虑到财务的模型那想请问一下我们基隆有另外一个国民运动中心因为OT的厂商经营不善已经累积高达两"},{"start":312.202,"end":333.331,"text":"設施殘破不堪變成是一個很顯著的失敗的案子那對於這個新的國家與球館那我想請問我們運動部目前將採取哪一種的財務模式是單純的OT還是更具彈性的OT阿偉文這是地方政府的權責不是我補助單位還要幫他想怎麼營運這是他來告訴我他要怎麼營運好"},{"start":335.012,"end":363.653,"text":"那我刚刚讲过场馆不是只有基隆的国家羽球馆还有另外一个就是我们基隆市的市立田径场那这个田径场是我们基隆市最大的体育投资那总经费4.6亿元中央补助3.2亿元即将在明年8月完工启用那我们身为基隆市民不希望这个次之4.6亿中央也付了3.2亿的场馆变成最后地方的蚊子馆那我想请问市长"},{"start":364.871,"end":380.449,"text":"運動部作為主要出資者請問有對2027甚至2028將哪些全國性或國際性的田徑賽事或職業運動賽事明確輪辦是這個新的全新的國家認證場地呢有沒有包委員"},{"start":382.031,"end":407.056,"text":"以我的理解如果是基隆田徑厂他今天设完工之后理论上他应该会申请国际的不管是二级或一级的田徑的认证这当然取决于基隆市政府他们选择哪一样如果是二级的话是田徑协会这边可以主办大概认证费用应该也不高不高但是如果国际一级的话就会相对的比较高一些完全取决于地方政府他选择哪一样"},{"start":407.856,"end":422.812,"text":"但是如果是單純辦國內的田徑賽事的話我想二級就足夠了那所以運動部會配合辦理就對了如果基隆市政府申請上來的時候這個部分的確是看基隆市政府他們需不需要朝這個方向"},{"start":424.649,"end":438.645,"text":"第三點我想請問就是有關基隆的這個氣候平權跟所謂的海洋戰略這其實跟運動部怎麼看我們基隆有絕對的關係基隆一年將近有200天在下雨那基隆市立田徑場的規劃兩座風雨籃球場屬於付費的場館"},{"start":442.89,"end":469.074,"text":"那其實並沒有辦法滿足我們基隆市七個行政區對於社區普及的需求所以我想說本席在這邊要要求運動部在一個月之內針對基隆多雨的特性提出氣候運動平權的專項補助計畫是不是在這邊可以做出承諾呢八五委員 目前我們的規劃在風雨球場的部分歸地方政府的權責並不是我們在中央的權責又退回來地方政府啦"},{"start":469.725,"end":494.283,"text":"報告委員其實這個部分真的就是在採訪法之後我們還是希望地方政府針對他的體育設施還有一定的責任在我想請問另外一個在海洋運動方面運動部已經指定基隆的海洋大學成為水域運動北部中心北區中心但是根據資料這個北區中心目前的任務僅次於推廣跟整合運動部沒有並列任何的基礎限設預算"},{"start":496.525,"end":522.586,"text":"那等於是讓海大無償貢獻資源運動部掛名紙上中心那我想請問市長何時才能正式編列預算停止紙上作業善用基隆的海洋優勢在基隆海大周邊建立一個真正的國家級海洋運動訓練中心呢115年的248億預算裡面是否有匡列相關的可行性評估或遷期規劃費用"},{"start":524.827,"end":553.861,"text":"保護委員那個當然海大應該是中央的吧那個不是那個是我們絕對全力支持那我們現在在全台灣有17個排列出17個據點那當然基隆是其中一個那這部分我們目前補助過去補助的是活動而已那現在針對它的一些設施的部分全民運輸還有編列預算在明年會來執行那大概預計年初的時候會讓縣市政府來做申請那海域的部分我們會是我們接下來推動的一個重要的一個政策方向"},{"start":554.181,"end":582.188,"text":"那这部分我们再来跟基隆市跟学校这边来谈一谈怎么合作好 其实老实讲刚刚听我有问到有关电竞嘛那刚好我自己除了立委身份之外我现在也是兼任这个基隆市SBL篮球队的总领队那我也想请问一下那对于篮球运动现在我们到两个职业联盟吗还是三个 两个那请问一下运动部对于两个职业联盟无法合并的案子那您有什么想法"},{"start":583.069,"end":601.358,"text":"包委員這部分總不能說就商業機制吧這個事情全台灣的籃球迷都在看著呢這部分據我所知李部長應該有一些想法我想他應該會在近期會跟這兩個聯盟會有一些找來談一下啦"},{"start":601.598,"end":621.526,"text":"具體的想法您知道是什麼呢?因為這個案子不管是T1以前叫TBBL還是現在的Pleague其實這兩個聯盟都沒有辦法聯合在一起沒有辦法合併在一起其實是全國籃球人口都在看的事情而且老實說大家都覺得這個事情不應該這個樣子去發展"},{"start":623.627,"end":652.177,"text":"那我想在這邊時間也到了 運動部在這邊責無旁貸這件事情麻煩請上心這件事情不管是說基隆 不管剛剛提的不管是基隆的國家羽球館還是有關基隆海大的這個訓練中心還是有關那個氣候平權甚至最後面有關兩聯盟未來的走向還有籃球三級的訓練我想這些事情運動部都不能再責無旁都不能再繼續推脫下去那想請部長針對這些案子以後"},{"start":652.637,"end":661.168,"text":"如果可以的话请给本席一些书面报告让本席回去好好研读可以吗好好 谢谢委员谢谢市长好 谢谢林沛翔"}]}},{"id":"165305","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165305","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe363b40c2fd01e0b59b3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5c3f1c478c5b52ad615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"11:46:50 - 11:53:51","影片長度":"00:07:01","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:46:50+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:53:51+08:00","duration":421,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.26284375,"end":3.0853437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.16909375,"end":10.695968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.337843750000001,"end":8.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.25221875,"end":15.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.59784375,"end":23.976593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.26346875,"end":41.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.729093750000004,"end":44.040968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.49659375,"end":46.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.26409375,"end":63.31221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.59909375,"end":65.30346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.86034375,"end":68.64471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.04971875000001,"end":79.63034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.95096875,"end":116.48534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.62034375,"end":138.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.23284375,"end":143.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.99159375000002,"end":158.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.52096875,"end":169.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.11409375000002,"end":179.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.42909375000002,"end":183.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.05284375000002,"end":205.12971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.46721875,"end":275.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.01034375,"end":267.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.87909375000004,"end":270.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.08909375,"end":277.43909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.52346875,"end":290.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.83784375,"end":290.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.92221875,"end":302.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.44784375,"end":303.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.52784375000005,"end":307.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.54409375,"end":357.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.37721875,"end":349.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.03409375,"end":378.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.95909375,"end":384.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.35909375,"end":384.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.96659375,"end":384.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.98346875000004,"end":387.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.43034375,"end":403.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.76534375,"end":418.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.68284375,"end":419.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.69096875,"end":421.12971875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.471,"end":28.119,"text":"來我們請黃建斌召委謝謝謝謝主席我們有請我們陸委會的邱主委來請邱主委黃委員好主委好主委本席今天要跟你討論的議題就是目前兩岸的這個關係冰凍之下那許多民眾無奈的心聲那就是兩岸的觀光的議題是"},{"start":28.806,"end":50.805,"text":"本席要強調接下來我們要討論的方向不是政治議題是有關產業經濟的問題以及相關從業人員的生計的問題本席也了解主委身為民進黨的政府的內閣有些話不得不說有些話因為有壓力也沒辦法說但接下來討論我們希望主委能夠放下我們執政黨的一些意識形態"},{"start":51.866,"end":64.526,"text":"我們回歸陸輝主委的一個職責我們一起來思考我們怎麼樣在實務上來做能夠真的來促進兩岸交流同時也幫到我們國內的這些業者那我想東部地區的"},{"start":65.899,"end":79.027,"text":"好山好水是全台灣最美麗的淨土過去我們國民黨執政時期的時期每年的那個入客好幾百萬人來到這邊來旅遊其中花東地區跟許多入客的觀光的熱點那帶動我們觀光產業"},{"start":82.209,"end":99.474,"text":"蓬勃發展但是後來隨著疫情的來臨然後加上民進黨政府上台之後我們兩岸的關係冰凍我們陸客人數呈現這個雪崩式的下降到目前為止還看不到恢復的曙光也沒有看到兩岸之間我們有任何對話的管道"},{"start":100.354,"end":120.867,"text":"根據我們交通部觀光署的統計今年前七個月台灣出境旅遊人數破千萬人次但反觀同時期入境旅客只有478萬人次這根本當時在政府喊出一千萬國際旅客來台的目標不但確定退票而且落差很大但我們進一步去分析"},{"start":121.927,"end":137.916,"text":"這個入境的國際旅客以這個來源來說日本的旅客大概是76.6萬那港澳地區是72.6萬那韓國是58萬人次那對於我們日韓日韓的遊客高居前三名我們一點都不意外但對第二名的這個"},{"start":139.261,"end":166.461,"text":"港澳的遊客常常被我們忽略其實他們不但有消費力地緣關係也非常的近加上他也不受到入客觀光旅遊政策的限制因此本席認為針對我們港澳地區的旅客我們政府是值得花更多的心思去吸引他們來台灣來旅遊在我們2010年國民黨執政時期從大陸到花東以及香港到花東的包機旅遊正式啟動"},{"start":167.582,"end":196.44,"text":"這樣做有什麼好處因為主要就是說我們台灣主要的機場都在西部那過去港澳遊客來因為可能交通的成本還有時間的考量都主要在西部旅遊那透過包機職場讓入客這些港入澳的遊客能夠降低他的時間成本我想這個對於我們台東許多景點花東的景點對我們來說也有新鮮感也有機會提升來台的這個意願跟這個頻率也帶動更多人潮"},{"start":197.62,"end":225.679,"text":"來這邊來旅遊能夠直接帶動我們在地的這個產業那當時的這個包機執行能夠促成就是我們中央的陸委會交通部還有台東縣政府還有其他許多業者共同攜手合作那這幾年台東縣政府也其實不斷透過努力來推動這個國際包機的執行像是越南 馬來西亞 泰國都有因此本市也相信說台東縣政府絕對有非常高的意願來促進港澳包機執行來吸引更多的這個國際的旅客"},{"start":227.22,"end":244.087,"text":"我們像是去年12月就重啟這個花蓮香港之岸的班機但是因為也缺乏足夠的這個誘因導致這個不堪虧損明年1月可能就停航了那這個非常可惜那因為這條光是這一條航線它一年的時間大概就創造上億元的這個觀光產值"},{"start":245.175,"end":266.4,"text":"這對我們目前花東的觀光來講是非常重大的一個強勁劑一直本是具體的建議我們針對我們港澳的旅客的包機直航陸委會交通部還有地方政府我們共同來研商我們透過民間協定的方式提供相關的獎勵的機制我們一起恢復這個港澳包機直航"},{"start":267.14,"end":279.585,"text":"花東地區帶動更多的這個國際觀光客來台我想這個不僅僅是能夠促進兩岸關係和緩的一個方式最重要的是可以幫助花東觀光產業的業者這個關鍵"},{"start":282.166,"end":304.818,"text":"所以這邊我要請主委來回應說是不是願意跟相關的單位我們共同來促成並且在兩個禮拜內我們提供個評估報告給本協辦公室我們會提供比較完整的報告包括我們最近也跟港方在討論更多的業者能夠對花東投下更多的心力來促成這個港澳的旅客能夠到"},{"start":305.658,"end":327.85,"text":"花東有包機剛剛提到的那個香花包機因為客源不足他可能也會影響這個旅客再到台東去所以我們希望把它組建起來另外因為花蓮最近他比較多那個事故那我們也希望不要停可以到台東那這部分我們也在跟"},{"start":329.091,"end":342.958,"text":"香港的有關方面還有他們業者特別是旅遊業者還有航空業者能夠把這個眼光投射到南部的台東就是好山好水看能不能更多人能夠去這個台東觀光也看看評估這個香港澳門到台東之間的"},{"start":349.782,"end":361.628,"text":"觀光包機的可能性我們最近也都有在跟業者來討論我們希望能促成另外就兩岸觀光的部分不是沒有管道那現在兩岸處理觀光是觀光小兩會我們是台旅會他們是海旅會我們就希望他們能夠溝通"},{"start":368.332,"end":392.833,"text":"針對旅遊安全品質穩定性公平性的議題討論完就來開放這樣對台灣不論是消費者業者對我們整個國家安全社會的這個外部成本的整個安排上會比較妥當我們會全力以赴謝謝委員各位主委這個部分真的要再多請主委多費心台東的產業很單純農業跟觀光都需要大量的觀光客進來這邊消費"},{"start":394.674,"end":417.58,"text":"那我們也期待我們主委跟我們其他各部會一起來努力 中央地方來合作我們讓台東的這個觀光產業讓花東的觀光產業能夠在我們接下來的面對整個國際趨勢能夠有更好的機會來發展那再一次的這邊再拜託主委那也謝謝主委那也將我們的這個兩個禮拜內將一個評估報告送到本席辦公室是謝謝主委 謝謝謝謝黃委員謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165304","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165304","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3fdec0088524db931b3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5c00ff06c9c86dfe3d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"11:38:50 - 11:46:41","影片長度":"00:07:51","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:38:50+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:46:41+08:00","duration":471,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.00471875,"end":7.152218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.69221875,"end":8.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.328468750000003,"end":13.969718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.969718750000002,"end":14.037218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.037218750000001,"end":14.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.05409375,"end":14.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.10471875,"end":14.492843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.336593750000002,"end":15.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.41659375,"end":17.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.93534375,"end":20.922218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.344093750000003,"end":23.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.398468750000003,"end":27.098468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.43596875,"end":29.781593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.38909375,"end":31.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.26221875,"end":33.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.017218750000005,"end":39.923468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.27784375,"end":44.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.71596875,"end":47.078468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.38221875,"end":49.626593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.81221875,"end":51.820343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.19159375,"end":54.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.34721875,"end":57.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.55784375,"end":57.844718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.283468750000004,"end":61.219718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.47284375,"end":62.04659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.56971875000001,"end":64.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.16846875,"end":65.89409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.21471875,"end":72.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.98159375,"end":75.17534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.42846875000001,"end":75.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.27221875000001,"end":78.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.30596875,"end":77.74034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.24659375,"end":78.53346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.95534375000001,"end":84.03471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.30471875,"end":84.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.44784375,"end":87.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.92034375,"end":89.13096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.31659375000001,"end":104.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.39034375,"end":104.25096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.28471875000001,"end":104.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.60534375,"end":114.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.83159375000001,"end":116.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.51909375000001,"end":117.39659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.39659375000001,"end":117.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.53159375000001,"end":118.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.57784375000001,"end":120.26534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.85596875,"end":124.28159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.51784375000001,"end":124.90596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.51346875,"end":125.76659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.98596875000001,"end":130.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.96409375000002,"end":132.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.16221875000002,"end":132.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.25909375,"end":136.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.83659375000002,"end":144.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.97034375,"end":149.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.74596875,"end":154.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.24721875,"end":160.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.38971875000001,"end":169.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.19846875000002,"end":179.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.20534375,"end":182.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.28096875,"end":183.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.90096875,"end":186.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.38159375,"end":191.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.32596875000002,"end":192.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.58721875,"end":194.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.80221875,"end":197.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.99159375000002,"end":203.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.64034375,"end":207.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.66096875000002,"end":208.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.23034375,"end":210.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.49596875,"end":211.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.23846875,"end":214.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.76534375,"end":215.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.28409375,"end":221.51534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.92034375,"end":222.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.81034375000002,"end":223.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.82721875000001,"end":225.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.64971875,"end":227.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.97409375,"end":232.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.11284375000002,"end":238.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.87971875000002,"end":253.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.08159375000002,"end":243.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.28409375,"end":243.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.40909375,"end":272.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.24846875000003,"end":255.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.02471875000003,"end":258.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.80471875,"end":259.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.05596875000003,"end":272.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.08971875000003,"end":273.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.94596875,"end":278.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.41346875,"end":282.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.68284375,"end":287.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.13784375,"end":288.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.01534375,"end":298.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.98846875000004,"end":299.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.98409375,"end":300.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.96284375000005,"end":303.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.54471875,"end":305.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.82284375,"end":310.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.36221875,"end":317.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.97284375000004,"end":323.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.42346875000004,"end":336.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.48471875,"end":341.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.98596875000004,"end":349.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.57971875000004,"end":354.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.70971875000004,"end":356.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.81909375000004,"end":366.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.74159375000005,"end":367.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.16346875000005,"end":389.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.76909375,"end":380.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.90284375000005,"end":389.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.65784375000004,"end":389.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.84346875,"end":390.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.02909375,"end":390.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.97409375,"end":402.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.37909375000004,"end":393.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.02409375,"end":396.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.95534375000005,"end":404.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.38971875000004,"end":407.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.64659375,"end":410.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.34659375,"end":414.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.78096875,"end":416.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.06284375,"end":420.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.17221875,"end":431.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.48346875000004,"end":425.73659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.87909375000004,"end":455.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.13284375,"end":455.23409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.23409375000006,"end":457.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.02721875000003,"end":459.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.85784375000003,"end":471.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.14409375,"end":464.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.39284375000005,"end":465.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.87346875000003,"end":468.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.53534375000004,"end":471.73784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.195,"end":32.736,"text":"來有請邱主委請邱主委議員好主委我想要講一下就是台灣跟歐洲的狀況那台灣面臨的狀況那講一下韌性那另外講一下戰爭什麼是戰爭那臨日攻擊裡面有一句名言戰爭早就開始了那有什麼戰呢"},{"start":34.779,"end":56.206,"text":"以社群方面來講的話有認知作戰我等一下舉抖音為例那以法律方面來講的話聯合國的2758決議那世界各國包含美國包含歐洲議會包含加拿大對2758號的決議的反應是什麼那包含我們立法院針對"},{"start":58.562,"end":84.894,"text":"台灣的國會針對國會議員在言論上被中國恐嚇這個恐嚇戰這個內容是什麼我覺得我們都必須要來跟國人來說明清楚主委你認同嗎我剛講的這些各種形態的這些作戰其實中國對台工作人員主委大概有多少人"},{"start":87.343,"end":113.818,"text":"從事統戰的對台工作人員我們過去有做一個除了解放軍之外中國大陸從他條條塊塊各機關就要涉及台灣人的事務如果負責有統戰任務我們有學者推估有60萬人次我上一次的資訊是40到60萬沒有錯如果60萬人次的話平均是一個人來負責四個台灣人到五個台灣人就可以了對不對是這麼說"},{"start":116.618,"end":141.395,"text":"那很可怕那所以他不會只有在軍事上他還有法律上我先從2758號決議裡面那中國單方面擴大解釋聯合國2758號決議的內容那各世界各國的國會做了什麼事情歐洲議會是說要求歐盟的外交機經濟要嚇阻中國而且認為這個是過度的解讀"},{"start":145.014,"end":146.675,"text":"加拿大眾議會也在2024年11月通過眾議院將繼續支持台灣有意參加國際組織"},{"start":155.339,"end":169.149,"text":"那在英國的下議會也就是英國的國會在2024年11月也對未確立中華人民共和國對台主權並且否定北京對聯大2758號的決議的扭曲那美國聯邦眾議會也強調2758號決議並未處理台灣及台灣人民在聯合國的代表權的問題 來"},{"start":180.336,"end":208.359,"text":"世界各國的國會那國會當然這是一個這些都是民主國家的國會都對2758號有這一個解釋而且是針對中國的片面的解釋那我們的立法院我們做不到因為從去年開始立法院藍白多數我們一直提議要通過這一個對中國錯誤解讀的決議文我們希望有一個台灣版本但是我們的立法院做不到相同的"},{"start":210.582,"end":238.023,"text":"賴總統要建議韓國瑜院長國會議員被中共通緝發布全球通緝國會議長應該有個態度吧做不到來 主委是 更委員報告我想中共的跨國鎮壓不管是針對我們國家的公務人員或者是我們國軍官兵還是沈伯陽委員"},{"start":238.953,"end":266.84,"text":"他這個就是針對台灣集體的一種脅迫比如說他企圖透過跨國鎮壓來對台灣進行恫嚇跟分化那我們反而要團結在一起一致對外我們反而要我相信國人會團結在一起讓我們更有韌性來對抗他們要更有韌性來對抗他們但是我們自己立法院沒有辦法做成多數的決議這裡我表示非常的遺憾那接下來我還要講"},{"start":267.779,"end":287.075,"text":"中國國民黨主席他去參拜無時就是當時在國民政府的將領他來到台灣在1950年被槍決但是他是用白色恐怖的名義去"},{"start":289.128,"end":302.928,"text":"去祭拜他那其實當時有很多因為國民黨政權他想要抓的一些知識分子他把他一概而論併到這裡面來同時在TikTok 在抖音"},{"start":303.632,"end":322.882,"text":"那在或者是連輸的reels也出現了大量的當初的包含這些中國間諜等等的這一些非常感人的故事其實大量出現在這些短片裡面的其實在這一次中國國民黨的選舉當主席的選舉裡面我相信"},{"start":323.562,"end":333.905,"text":"被抖音影響的程度還是滿高的那我希望陸委會這個相關的機關也要有相關的這些研究跟一些想法"},{"start":334.827,"end":354.271,"text":"那其實從這些不管是臉書Meta其實他的前執行長在民視的社群裡面那也對於中國的言論的控管跟台灣的用戶的管控其實都有提出一些指控現在還沒有被證實但是我相信我們這些臉書的流量包含更嚴重的TikTok的這些演算法"},{"start":355.13,"end":383.036,"text":"嚴重影響 嚴重想要引導就是認知作戰的部分那我想陸委會在極少的資源底下我們還是要對民眾來做出這一些提醒是 我們會全力的來盡陸委會的能量來做社會提醒包括您剛剛提到錄製APP包括中國大陸的小紅書包括像新加坡的TikTok或是抖音"},{"start":383.556,"end":408.41,"text":"那這些呢可能都有竊取我們各自的疑慮其實我覺得竊取各自這是個人必須要很注意的一點之外內容對內容呢它可能會用這個管道來混淆我們國內的團結製造我們的分裂甚至用來借選介入我們自由民主憲政的運作所以會帶來國安的風險"},{"start":410.41,"end":426.938,"text":"那這個部分呢我想我們跟各部會都在積極演繹我們有沒有能力來做這一個反制我想我們最近都在跟各部會討論我們不能只說你不要看你這個內容這可能會竊取你的個資等等我們要有能力來"},{"start":428.537,"end":452.848,"text":"反制這些大量的認知作戰這個認知作戰透過中資的APP來擴大對台灣人心的混淆製造我們的矛盾影響我們的自由民主的生活方式這一點非常嚴重所以這個部分相關部門正在研討積極的防範措施"},{"start":454.668,"end":468.478,"text":"來立法來規範這就是我們努力的方向回到我剛開頭的那句話戰爭早就開始了不管是社群戰、認知戰、心理戰、法律戰戰爭早就開始了全民必須要有韌性來防衛是謝謝謝謝謝謝李博"}]}},{"id":"165303","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165303","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3cab79dfdcc0db442b3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5c00ff06c9c86dfe3d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"11:30:21 - 11:38:35","影片長度":"00:08:14","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:30:21+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:38:35+08:00","duration":494,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.69659375,"end":9.396593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.442843750000002,"end":11.067218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.387218750000002,"end":16.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.910343750000003,"end":96.94409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.48409375,"end":98.78346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.67784375000001,"end":110.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.20409375000001,"end":111.65909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.83221875000001,"end":118.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.48096875,"end":121.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.61971875,"end":124.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.01159375,"end":127.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.68659375000001,"end":131.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.02721875,"end":141.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.29596875000001,"end":144.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.90721875,"end":145.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.54846875,"end":148.68284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.40471875,"end":146.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.82221875000002,"end":150.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.74596875,"end":162.99284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.60659375,"end":151.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.02409375000002,"end":152.42909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.78596875000002,"end":172.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.77284375000002,"end":168.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.31659375,"end":171.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.32909375,"end":171.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.51034375,"end":172.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.28659375,"end":189.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.87034375000002,"end":194.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.54471875000002,"end":196.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.82721875000001,"end":201.73784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.90659375,"end":206.93534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.09534375,"end":211.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.59284375000001,"end":223.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.70471875,"end":232.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.88471875000002,"end":241.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.86659375000002,"end":245.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.43971875000003,"end":247.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.57034375,"end":249.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.40534375000001,"end":250.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.94534375,"end":257.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.72909375,"end":258.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.72909375,"end":267.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.70221875000004,"end":268.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.76971875000004,"end":270.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.15346875,"end":269.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.19971875000005,"end":278.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.06346875,"end":282.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.78846875,"end":285.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.14659375,"end":287.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.32346875,"end":297.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.35721875,"end":288.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.57096875,"end":311.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.99534375,"end":313.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.99034375,"end":317.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.75346875,"end":334.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.25284375,"end":337.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.15096875,"end":341.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.95221875000004,"end":352.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.98846875000004,"end":363.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.88971875000004,"end":370.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.48784375,"end":376.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.83284375000005,"end":380.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.15721875,"end":381.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.74346875000003,"end":390.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.73784375,"end":407.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.25909375000003,"end":403.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.71471875000003,"end":403.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.97159375,"end":411.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.83159375,"end":434.98409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.15971875,"end":419.86409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.91034375000004,"end":421.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.08096875,"end":445.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.98659375000005,"end":447.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.45909375,"end":447.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.70784375000005,"end":451.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.77471875000003,"end":453.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.88409375000003,"end":457.76534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.76159375000003,"end":458.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.88346875,"end":465.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.36784375,"end":492.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.97534375000004,"end":495.75096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.738,"end":10.944,"text":"好謝謝主席我們有請邱主委請邱主委"},{"start":15.607,"end":39.137,"text":"國務委員好 是邱主委也好我們知道賴慶德總統他在114年3月時候提出賴17條那麼說現在到中國大陸去旅遊的風險越來越高而且還引用陸委會的資料稱說失聯被留置被盤查被關押的案件上升那麼但是呢我們看看你們今年這個10月份"},{"start":40.058,"end":67.639,"text":"陆委会的发言人在10月份的记者会公布的数字说现在大概失联的有61人遭留置盘查19人被限制人身自由132人合计是212人在根据被限制自由的132人当中其中诈骗案件因为诈骗案件是有而被留置限制自由大概有93人高达70%"},{"start":69.66,"end":98.591,"text":"其他的可能还有些刑事案件可能因为逃债或者是要逃避一些司法一些追溯所以到大陆去的然后当然还有少数的一些宗教问题的室友然后被留置盘查其中大概有9个人是一贯道的道青然后真正因为可能政治国案事件的政治性案件的其实也只有一人这个情况很严重吗"},{"start":99.707,"end":108.473,"text":"跟委員報告委員站是9月底我們有一個10月底的那個人數更是增加了20幾位總共達到23310月記者會的數字這個數字每個月都增加20個然後今年的數字是去年的三倍"},{"start":117.58,"end":127.887,"text":"所以增加20個很多嗎 限制自由嗎 還是說是整體都有 包括失聯的 刑方不明的所以總統是增加多少 當然這些什麼詐騙案件這個是他講的詐騙案件 是不是這樣我們這是他歸納的"},{"start":133.49,"end":146.018,"text":"但是是不是真的是詐騙案件我們要攤開司法這有沒有相關的一些其他的刑事案件所以你們認為說大陸那邊他們會亂逮這個詐騙犯是嗎會把真的所謂的政治性的人文法當詐騙判去抓起來嗎坦白說我想很多的台灣的老百姓會很高興這些詐騙犯是被大陸那邊先把他先扣留下來限制他的自由不會回到台灣國內來詐騙"},{"start":163.85,"end":189.693,"text":"对你们很多的这个这都是你们自己提供的我们提供的你们会不晓得吗我现在要谈的是说就你们现在不断的在谈到大陆去有多危险多危险那真正可能会因为政治性问题因为他的政治思想等等可能跟大陆那里有所不同的会被盘查会被滞留的可能也就只有一个人而已"},{"start":190.919,"end":206.802,"text":"被盘查留置询问的也许就十几二十个人请问邱主委你知道我们现在台湾同胞我们到美国海关这个入境可能会被盘查留置的人数有多少吗"},{"start":209.173,"end":232.54,"text":"是国外的我们没有这个数字是我建议之后外交部应该提供相关统计数据我们国人到其他国家入境时候被海关盘查的人数有多少我告诉你肯定是高过19位到美国海关会被留下来这个留置盘查询问的绝对是远远超过20个人"},{"start":234.223,"end":244.678,"text":"所以我們現在要講說現在到大陸去好危險好危險然後陸委會呢就做了一大堆的什麼登錄系統登錄系統大家登錄進去之後那請問陸委會有什麼作為嗎你們看到這些數字之後你們的作為是什麼"},{"start":250.464,"end":259.608,"text":"是 我們當然鼓勵我們民眾婦入啊能夠加入我們的動態登錄系統我現在不是講登錄系統 而是登錄之後真正被限制自由 真正被留置盤查失聯的那你們有什麼作為 我們政府有什麼作為"},{"start":267.971,"end":297.104,"text":"我们现在司法互助等于是断掉吗没有我们司法互助仍然在依照既有的这个沟通机制在沟通讨论这些问题我在司法法治委员会我非常清楚我们现在司法互助就算是有沟通但是真正引渡回来的人有多少位非常非常少啊那么委会在这方面有做了些什么努力吗有希望把我们这些限制自由的或失联的人然后希望能够透过什么机制让他们回来吗"},{"start":297.645,"end":312.786,"text":"至少我们在那里限制我们人身自由或是失联的我们希望每个个案对象都能够跟我们配合让我们的家属知道也让我们可以对他给予司法方面的协助就是说你们这个"},{"start":314.568,"end":337.395,"text":"大陆的人身安全的风险是不是越来越高这个是我们根据也是你们的网站上面海基会协处台商经贸纠纷案件的处理统计表从98年当时是最高人数是353人一直到现在从110年近5年来我们看到那个人身安全的风险是越来越低可是你们却说是越来越高"},{"start":339.212,"end":362.95,"text":"我们再来看有关于宗教的部分宗教交流风险也是实际上现在可能因为宗教原因被限制自由的人数也不过13人可是我们两岸在过去这一年宗教交流的总人次是16244人所以被限制的比例也不过就是千分之八"},{"start":363.971,"end":379.783,"text":"我们如果说在扣掉那个可能一贯到道歉的九人他限制的比例是百分千分之二非常非常低那你要告诉我们大家说宗教所有这个国人父路的交流风险都非常高这是事实吗"},{"start":380.483,"end":401.446,"text":"跟委員報告我們就算是一個人我們都很關注特別是因為宗教的因素特別是一貫道包括最近也有衍生到其他的基督教的教派他們都被下令不能從事傳教的事情那麼對於一貫道的人他們更是用中共的刑法三百條"},{"start":403.788,"end":416.693,"text":"這個來判處這個都是我們非常關注的這些人道問題謝謝您的回答我想陸委會不要只會關注這不是你們如果只會關注我們每個人都可以關注任何部會都可以關注你陸委會最重要職責是什麼我們要減少國人"},{"start":420.194,"end":423.037,"text":"然後讓身在那邊可能被限制自由被留置盤查的這些國人能夠讓他們回來可是你們現在完全做不到我最後要再講的就是陸委會沒有錯你們有責任要揭露風險但是你們不能製造恐慌"},{"start":436.104,"end":445.276,"text":"安全是建立在真相 風險是不能夠靠想像你們現在有沒有針對附入的失聯個案有建立聯繫窗口我們跟國人的風險的提醒也是基於客觀的數字"},{"start":454.58,"end":472.257,"text":"剛剛說了每個月增加20幾個我們增加一個就很嚴重何況每個月都增加20幾個尤其是今年以來我想在這件事情上面如果您認為增加一個兩個就很嚴重的話我建議你們在行政院匯報上面一定要提醒外交部"},{"start":472.797,"end":481.104,"text":"我們國人在其他國家的海關被留置的情形是不是遠比去大陸要嚴重很多相關數據全部都要提供出來好讓所有的民眾知道到底到大陸去旅遊去交流是不是夠是不是危險還是說這個基本上只是你陸委會打的這個認知作戰沒有 更為包括不是真正我們都會協助我們每個個案的家庭"}]}},{"id":"165278","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165278","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe30e4b5bbdc595b01e906ee7c1e9a76e5aa983a90274432617581072cc072802035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅明才","委員發言時間":"11:23:05 - 11:35:55","影片長度":"00:12:50","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:23:05+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:35:55+08:00","duration":770,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.059093750000002,"end":9.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.172843750000002,"end":16.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.875968750000002,"end":20.297843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.15846875,"end":22.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.33096875,"end":25.039718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.91721875,"end":26.777843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.929718750000003,"end":28.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.460968750000003,"end":31.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.852843750000005,"end":33.274718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.392843750000004,"end":36.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.32909375,"end":36.869093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.64534375,"end":38.438468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.50596875,"end":40.868468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.391593750000006,"end":42.252218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.34909375,"end":46.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.43284375,"end":48.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.28909375,"end":54.368468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.46534375,"end":56.157218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.66346875,"end":61.422218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.21534375,"end":66.31596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.45096875,"end":66.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.46784375,"end":73.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.36534375000001,"end":78.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.63471875,"end":81.95909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.43159375,"end":83.41034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.95034375,"end":85.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.70534375000001,"end":86.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.46034375,"end":93.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.90284375,"end":91.17284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.87284375,"end":94.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.13846875,"end":98.61471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.76659375000001,"end":100.47096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.01096875,"end":102.34409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.04846875000001,"end":104.72346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.39846875,"end":110.02221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.27534375,"end":118.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.34159375,"end":118.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.54409375,"end":122.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.20596875000001,"end":122.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.22284375000001,"end":123.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.71221875,"end":122.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.18471875,"end":123.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.26909375000001,"end":123.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.97784375,"end":124.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.02846875,"end":124.77096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.77096875000001,"end":124.78784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.78784375000001,"end":124.90596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.14221875000001,"end":126.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.30659375,"end":127.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.43284375000002,"end":130.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.03159375,"end":132.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.83284375,"end":135.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.38096875000002,"end":136.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.46096875,"end":141.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.08909375000002,"end":146.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.50159375,"end":148.29471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.78409375,"end":149.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.26909375,"end":153.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.04909375,"end":155.83784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.52534375000002,"end":161.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.73534375,"end":164.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.49034375000002,"end":168.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.72596875000002,"end":171.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.04221875000002,"end":171.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.22784375,"end":171.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.26159375,"end":173.05034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.64096875,"end":182.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.88846875000002,"end":184.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.21721875,"end":187.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.11534375000002,"end":191.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.16971875000002,"end":193.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.56596875000002,"end":201.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.95409375,"end":195.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.69971875000002,"end":203.56034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.23534375000003,"end":206.37846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.37409375000001,"end":209.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.97284375,"end":210.56346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.35659375,"end":212.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.11159375000003,"end":216.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.00971875000002,"end":218.25846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.98409375000003,"end":220.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.61659375000002,"end":222.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.43909375,"end":226.99971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.47221875000002,"end":232.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.04096875000002,"end":236.33159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.71971875000003,"end":238.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.26784375000003,"end":240.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.71909375,"end":243.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.71846875000003,"end":245.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.49034375000002,"end":247.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.45221875000001,"end":248.51534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.95409375000003,"end":255.26534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.31159375000004,"end":279.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.49721875,"end":258.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.29096875,"end":282.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.78846875,"end":300.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.96284375000005,"end":301.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.32971875000004,"end":309.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.29471875,"end":312.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.28159375,"end":319.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.03159375,"end":326.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.81534375,"end":330.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.38846875,"end":333.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.71721875000003,"end":334.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.67909375000005,"end":335.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.92784375,"end":336.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.88971875000004,"end":338.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.96534375000005,"end":348.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.60096875000005,"end":349.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.91721875,"end":369.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.03221875,"end":372.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.26784375,"end":375.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.36034375,"end":378.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.44471875000005,"end":377.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.03096875,"end":379.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.04784375,"end":378.09846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.30096875000004,"end":383.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.58284375000005,"end":388.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.74659375000005,"end":389.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.10096875000005,"end":390.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.16846875000005,"end":392.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.65346875,"end":391.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.07096875,"end":395.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.22221875,"end":396.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.77471875000003,"end":402.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.22971875,"end":403.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.93409375000005,"end":411.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.88221875000005,"end":416.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.70409375,"end":428.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.22971875,"end":434.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.18659375000004,"end":438.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.10159375,"end":440.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.00846875,"end":442.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.21471875000003,"end":445.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.03284375000004,"end":448.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.95659375,"end":449.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.15034375000005,"end":453.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.34409375,"end":454.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.98096875000005,"end":456.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.10721875,"end":458.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.53284375000004,"end":461.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.64659375,"end":463.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.84034375000005,"end":465.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.03409375,"end":472.53096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.02846875000006,"end":477.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.75784375,"end":480.58034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.21721875000003,"end":484.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.25471875000005,"end":498.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.02909375,"end":507.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.03596875000005,"end":510.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.88784375000006,"end":514.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.68034375,"end":519.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.55721875,"end":528.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.77534375,"end":531.6103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.8972187500001,"end":532.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.1965937500001,"end":534.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.39034375,"end":536.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.44909375,"end":541.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.4272187500001,"end":543.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.35534375,"end":547.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.29971875,"end":555.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.27721875,"end":560.9053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.10784375,"end":565.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.3603437500001,"end":569.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.98409375,"end":573.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.34221875,"end":575.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.9240937500001,"end":578.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.77596875,"end":586.6397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.89784375,"end":582.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.01971875,"end":585.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.69034375,"end":588.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.91784375,"end":591.1453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.5334687500001,"end":596.8997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.4990937499999,"end":595.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.79846875,"end":621.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.3472187500001,"end":641.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.39909375,"end":645.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.40659375,"end":648.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.00971875,"end":656.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.03409375,"end":655.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.57409375,"end":660.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.67034375,"end":664.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.0915937500001,"end":666.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.27284375,"end":666.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.4584687500001,"end":666.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.72846875,"end":666.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.7453437500001,"end":669.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.9853437500001,"end":677.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.6772187500001,"end":674.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.79846875,"end":678.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.06846875,"end":688.3115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.80096875,"end":701.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.40659375,"end":702.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.16596875,"end":723.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.1315937500001,"end":707.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.54659375,"end":726.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.7153437500001,"end":724.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":724.49159375,"end":726.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.7865937500001,"end":733.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.2959687500002,"end":736.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.2197187500001,"end":750.3103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.0065937500001,"end":760.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":752.33534375,"end":756.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.25409375,"end":768.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.07971875,"end":770.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.09659375,"end":768.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.21471875,"end":768.9909687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.293,"end":15.958,"text":"主席 各位出列習慣人大家好主席可不可以請彭主委好 請彭主委喂好彭主委 你那個看起來形象不錯那個詐騙也沒 拿你的照片去詐騙"},{"start":33.741,"end":60.587,"text":"現在好像曾經有過但是沒有最近沒有看到那他用你的照片去詐騙他詐了多少錢這我當然不知道我的照片可能沒有什麼吸引力啦現在就是很離譜啊有一些什麼高官行政院長或者是立委也有啊全部這個社會已經改變了隨時他拿到照片然後就詐騙"},{"start":62.447,"end":86.335,"text":"現在台灣平均一天 大概詐騙的金額是多少其實起起伏伏啦 就是剛剛委員提到大概我的觀察在這兩億上下兩億 少的時候兩億 有時候多的時候四億這讓人家覺得膽戰心驚現在搞到全民防詐 小心"},{"start":87.926,"end":102.139,"text":"詐騙就在你身邊以前是匪諜嘛小心詐騙就在你身邊那事實上在金管會這個詐騙的這個整個藍圖裡面每一次都有金管會多數啦"},{"start":106.038,"end":132.327,"text":"因為詐騙案例有很多嘛用愛情的方式詐騙有用什麼大概投資就是說你可以賺很多錢投資詐騙或是買股票等等這個還蠻多的聽說佔了七成多啦對就是主要損失來自於投資詐騙那現在就是這個問題變成是國家安全的問題"},{"start":134.668,"end":161.02,"text":"個資到處流竄然後連剛剛你也講主委的照片也到處流竄弄到最後是要信主委還是要信誰都不知道要信誰都會覺得怕怕的我們應該大力的想出一個方法來扭轉這樣的一個壞的環境主委你看每一次經過大概都是金流的問題"},{"start":163.769,"end":190.825,"text":"你知道台積電有多少的寫城市的工程人員這我沒有確切的數字應該很多大概7萬多人現在居然詐騙的人數已經快要直逼我們的護國神山的重要的員工這個說起來真的是相當的諷刺於是金融的這一塊"},{"start":192.23,"end":217.285,"text":"主委有沒有什麼想法剛剛他也提到很多點就是說那你不是加強嚴格的管控那問題很多人就遭池魚之殃啊有些莫名其妙的一些帳戶甚至小朋友開學要一些學雜費領個十幾萬就被銀行刁難啊"},{"start":221.687,"end":241.983,"text":"如同剛剛要選台北市的那個王委員他也提到他說有很多銀行就趁機就修理這些小戶修理這些弱勢最好你不要來我銀行趁機把它掃光事實上現在很多民眾去銀行開戶很難開啊"},{"start":245.495,"end":254.901,"text":"問東問西甚至你越小戶就是經濟弱勢的這個族群開戶銀行的基本心態就是說你最好不要來"},{"start":256.625,"end":275.55,"text":"主委有沒有這樣的一個狀況其實也不是因為其實上我想國際洗錢的趨勢做KYC是特別特別的重視認為新開戶我想最近都知道我們才從上次大概就知道開戶有它一定必要的程序這個大概是我想其實銀行在做這件事情的時候也是非常的兩難"},{"start":276.77,"end":299.267,"text":"第一個他本來是營利失業是要去服務客戶完成正常交易但是因為炸團太多的利用他的管道所以在這個如何取得平衡我想說這個主炸打炸我們一定不會鬆手但是方法一定會強力要求他們好好來改善這是全民的共識因為剛剛委員舉到很多的例子這些都是比如說因為這個過程當中這個"},{"start":303.009,"end":330.036,"text":"讓我們的民眾感覺到被干擾被阻礙這部分我們會盡量來想辦法解決這個問題那現在被凍結的帳戶有多少其實凍結的概念就是說剛剛其實我們是沒有做這個統計但是就是說各家銀行自己在因為其實這是各家銀行自主的作為我們只是在希望他們注意他們警示帳戶的管控那各家公司根據他自己的能力來決定他要怎麼作為"},{"start":331.451,"end":347.166,"text":"所以這是很嚴重的問題當然打詐全民一起來支持可是剛剛所提的大概有15萬戶甚至更多的帳戶莫名其妙就被凍結了"},{"start":349.963,"end":371.528,"text":"一般的小老百姓如果突然被凍結他可能要繳學費他可能要付那個停車費或者是他需要一筆錢買午餐晚餐給小朋友零用錢或者是他外面欠人家的錢他必須要趕快還結果因為一凍結了以後那怎麼辦"},{"start":376.403,"end":403.076,"text":"求助無門最後這些小額需求的這些人他可能轉而走向地下錢莊我想這是我們再三的請銀行主委你知道現在地下錢莊是誰在管就是地下就是他就沒有被納管才叫地下所以你管不到嘛"},{"start":404.198,"end":416.269,"text":"所以一個你管不到的地方and另外的租賃公司在外面到處到處在找生意主委生意好了不得了他就說你有沒有缺錢10萬以下免審核一通電話他大概看可以馬上就帶給你"},{"start":429.298,"end":457.832,"text":"一班的阿嬤啦 十班的阿嬤啦有些連學生都去借啊借了就陷入那個悲慘的循環主委你知道地下錢莊啊它的年利率多少其實它是算天的啦年利率多少 大概你有沒有這個概念這個請委員 這個理系%有啦36%也有啦有的超過50%啊"},{"start":460.578,"end":484.329,"text":"我看到一個悲慘的案例就是不到一個月借不到一百萬結果一個多月他必須已經還了一百多萬事情才解決他拿多少 他拿八十幾萬而已還了大概一百塊五十萬所以這個地下錢莊的事你管不管"},{"start":486.187,"end":514.46,"text":"其實確實我們現在主管是金融機構這些部分是因為可能現在的話它如果登記為一般公司那確實不是我們金管會的管轄機關那就變成是你本來以前可能這個銀行的放款業務銀行的帳戶使用非常的方便現在因為你急劇的凍結嚴格的審查很多帳戶不能用"},{"start":515.694,"end":536.691,"text":"他這些小戶不能用他只要轉向地下去了對啊 這也是我們過去一直在講說我們假設真的要針對所謂的民間帶放行為做廣泛式的納管必須要慎重的知道它的影響評估我想這也是剛剛文岳點到一個重點有時候比如說納管"},{"start":537.872,"end":555.707,"text":"確實是一件好事嗎不一定啦但就是說我們要看他影響要來看判斷因為畢竟市場即便你納管以後他可能更借不到這樣的一個錢那我想地下錢莊他可能有其他的法律比如他違反了重力這些東西其實還是有其他的法律可以約束他"},{"start":557.341,"end":578.546,"text":"所以現在那個租賃公司你全部都可以管嗎我們現在的話9月15號開始我們是針對我們的幾家上市櫃公司及周邊的這是第一階段第二階段很快的會針對金融機構這個相關十幾家也會納管我們在應該未來很快的會把所有我們整個租賃公會下面的會員公司把它納管"},{"start":578.826,"end":601.567,"text":"第二階段納管的家宿大概有幾家就是你所說的金融機構周邊他們都有轉投資大概十三四家左右十三四家哪十四家這我可能一下子沒辦法回答委員就是很多金庫跟銀行轉投資的表面是一個正正堂堂的銀行家很正常的金融機構"},{"start":602.708,"end":620.47,"text":"可是他是掛羊頭賣狗肉表面都說正規真正借不到錢的時候他另外跟你講說你去找租賃公司講難聽一點這些租賃公司它利率收多少8%服務稅加一加十幾%"},{"start":622.401,"end":645.123,"text":"它等於是上下其手表面是開銀行但是把一些中間的客戶群或者下層的客戶群把它安排到它自己可以控制的租賃公司然後來吸乾 榨乾 抹淨這些小企業或是比較弱勢的企業"},{"start":647.458,"end":659.039,"text":"主委你知道這件事嗎我想社會很多的樣態啦那我們按照我們現在既定的步驟我們會逐步來納管這些民眾如果遇到這樣的委屈可以跟金管會誰來伸出"},{"start":660.751,"end":687.974,"text":"如果是我們現在納管的這個可以跟我們的平益中心可以跟我們來申訴是找董局長嗎我們銀行局跟平益中心銀行局也可以 平益中心都可以另外剛講的那個凍結戶造成很多民眾的不方便20萬戶然後大家覺得很奇怪這是我們民眾的財產你說凍結就凍結可是有多少的是冤枉戶啊"},{"start":689.117,"end":713.734,"text":"這也是我們去年打造專法通過以後希望銀行來做這件事情我想這部分我們會手法上面我們一定會強力要求他們要精進減少誤判銀行為刀鼠 小老百姓為魚肉主委 你能不能有一個單一窗口萬一被凍結 你查嘛你凍結 你有懷疑的趕快查"},{"start":714.494,"end":732.7,"text":"你不是啊 你要一次凍結五天 十天 半個月 一個月民眾也不曉得到底發生什麼事請問要找哪一個申訴單位真的如果說委員如果發言有比較不當的個案提供給我但是我們會要求每家銀行要成立專線24小時服務這件事情"},{"start":734.341,"end":752.808,"text":"那一般凍結給人家凍結幾天沒有那個要看情況正常來講如果警示賬戶的話是要由檢警調來解控那時間不知道但是一般假設是銀行自我管控的部分他可以只要是他了解他可以應該可以馬上就做到所以你這個做要做你也請銀行單位"},{"start":754.75,"end":767.686,"text":"不要拿著雞毛當令箭然後傷及無辜那當然當然但是我們也希望說打造真正全民的共識那我們也背負很大很大的這樣的一個這個責任我們會努力來做謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165277","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165277","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3a1e24f1314347aa257c737e12387eef8a983a90274432617b8d117be339ca86f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"11:25:24 - 11:31:50","影片長度":"00:06:26","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:25:24+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:31:50+08:00","duration":386,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.84096875,"end":3.4734687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.8872187500000002,"end":2.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.79409375,"end":6.122843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.64596875,"end":6.949718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.89034375,"end":9.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.10096875,"end":11.640968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.36659375,"end":18.559718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.01034375,"end":24.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.81596875,"end":32.430968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.768468750000004,"end":41.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.60659375,"end":60.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.81034375,"end":63.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.79721875,"end":92.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.30346875000001,"end":94.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.77159375000001,"end":137.25846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.11909375000002,"end":138.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.50284375,"end":166.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.60409375,"end":177.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.20159375,"end":177.80909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.95659375000002,"end":179.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.01971875,"end":184.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.45346875,"end":186.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.93846875,"end":187.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.86659375000002,"end":192.49034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.96284375000002,"end":216.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.80721875,"end":218.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":221.73471875,"end":232.66971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.37034375000002,"end":285.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.52221875000004,"end":295.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.96346875,"end":302.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.03846875,"end":303.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.57846875,"end":325.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.33471875000004,"end":384.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.97471875,"end":387.24471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.87,"end":18.001,"text":"請王逸川委員來做一下主席要上洗手間的就自行去吧來記得回來喔你要叫誰謝謝主席我們請那個副秘書長還有跟社交署的黃組長委員好"},{"start":26.846,"end":39.24,"text":"兩位好那今天事實上是審查邵氏法那我有一些對案的版本除了今天有送進來的那個83條之一以外另外還有一些部分條文我們也會陸續進來趕上那個審查所以先來"},{"start":42.662,"end":59.119,"text":"跟兩位討論一下我比較關心的首先我想先問的是目前少式法和少年偏差行為預防跟輔導辦法當中針對少年持有未滿5公克的一個三四級的毒品請問一下複密歸誰管我請廳長來回覆是"},{"start":65.41,"end":90.618,"text":"謝謝委員這一部分目前就是以邵府會跟我們開會的時候我們有給他一個法律意見就是暴嫌的第三款第三目就是持有第三世紀毒品那可以用預備預備犯罪不法然後來處理我們已經發文給他們那我們過去時委是這樣做但這一次看到委員這樣的意見"},{"start":92.358,"end":108.399,"text":"我們其實是非常讚好因為我聽到許多團體都來跟我反映持有三四級毒品的少年事實上是沒有單位要管的因為教育單位雖然有純輝專案的輔導可是沒有遇到真的遇到他私用的話他通常是不會處理的"},{"start":108.98,"end":136.128,"text":"那就轉給小五會可是又會被推薦所以等於是無學級的少年一樣因為無學級的少年本來就是沒有對應措施了所以我認為持有已經是近視於私用了所以不能因為曝險行為跟偏差行為定義不明就讓實務現場各自退縮所以我知道司法委員現在針對這個問題呢先前也有召開會議並函文給警政署確認這樣子的一個行為真的是不是曝險行為所以"},{"start":138.269,"end":158.929,"text":"無法依我們18條之二項通知少婦會處理所以邀請警方查獲的時候要評估少年的持有的目的是不是製造販售或是轉讓的預備犯罪行為而且並且還要綜合評估少年的需保護性所以就想問說為什麼這件事情不能直接一點處理呢"},{"start":159.91,"end":184.215,"text":"直接就講這些持有行為納入到曝險定義當中更何況你如果要第一線的那個員警來做這樣的目前他們的訓練跟量能根本就是沒有辦法去做評估所以我認為這部分應該要修法定義更明確所以我有提出我的版本所在所以衛福部這邊大概今天審查的邵司法我也想"},{"start":185.709,"end":213.929,"text":"進一步的去能不能參照我們兒童權益公約的精神跟意志去增訂符合少年最佳利益的條文將處於多元性真正納入到我們的法條當中可是安置機構的我們的安置輔導事務上面對到的困境是我覺得司法院跟衛福部這邊到底有沒有掌握就誠如剛剛吳士堯委員在問的那樣子的一個課題不知道"},{"start":215.022,"end":218.565,"text":"複密和我們的衛福部社家署這邊謝謝委員的推詢其實我們的安置機構對於收容這樣子的少年其實應該是說心有餘而力不足那個力不足的部分為什麼心有力不足我就不太懂為什麼你110家的安置機構110家"},{"start":239.099,"end":262.707,"text":"那目前只有兩家願意去承接司法安置少年那15間呢事實上是有補助可是他只有40%的量能去做特殊需求跟司法安置可是真正完全能夠去承接的大概就只有兩家而已那是不是因為安置的司法安置事實上本來照顧的困難度就比較高可是你人員也沒有去搭配專業人員去到位"},{"start":263.167,"end":283.999,"text":"甚至經費補助又不足甚至你如果要安置機構去募款的話通常他怎麼會有辦法來貼補說那我今天司法安置的時候很大量的經費是要他們去募資這樣的資源所以我認為這樣子的一個服務萎縮的窘境難怪司法院他們大概就很難今天我要安置輔導為什麼"},{"start":285.66,"end":302.058,"text":"最後就是我覺得不利當初事實上司法轉向就是希望安置輔導不是去所謂的感化教育所以我們覺得這個是不是我認為衛福部要不要有一個說法或有一個對應的措施"},{"start":303.072,"end":318.463,"text":"是 謝謝委員我們現在都有在其實我們本來原定今天跟一些收容司法少年的機構開會因為颱風天所以我們會做一個延期那我們會收集到他們面臨第一線的一些更細節的意見之後然後我們也會再來跟"},{"start":319.424,"end":345.792,"text":"相關的部會因為這個也涉及到教育部的就學這一塊勞動部的就業這一塊動作快一點因為監察院108年就提出調查報告了要求司法院跟衛福部都要盡速來研商所以我覺得複密在這邊跟我覺得衛福部要盡快去做處理否則我們看到數量就是一直銳減最後你就還是管化教育就都不會去做安置輔導所以最後大家就期待"},{"start":346.852,"end":358.829,"text":"真的去檢討就偏差跟暴險少年的一些定義還有就是安置輔導這一塊真的要去處理不是安置機構所以他們很需要的是專業人員的導入還有經費的挹注"},{"start":362.197,"end":384.407,"text":"為什麼因為他們基本上還是可以去做只是因為資源不到位然後呢專業人力又沒有辦法協助因為通常我們也不認為應該要重新在完全的是專責的一個安置機構可能反而是又是集中那有又是另外一個角質學校的一個翻版可能要考慮的是轉向輔導的這樣的一個方式以上謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165276","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165276","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe31c2ba24957f15e2757c737e12387eef8a983a90274432617938357d8e0506d445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:09:46 - 11:24:58","影片長度":"00:15:12","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:09:46+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:24:58+08:00","duration":912,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":0.03096875,"end":3.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5.58284375,"end":6.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8.012843750000002,"end":10.493468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11.57346875,"end":12.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13.93596875,"end":15.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16.75409375,"end":21.715343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.25909375,"end":25.782218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.883468750000002,"end":27.773468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27.874718750000003,"end":28.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":28.617218750000003,"end":29.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.54534375,"end":37.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":37.32471875,"end":39.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.52659375,"end":41.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.56034375,"end":42.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.572843750000004,"end":57.321593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":43.36596875,"end":43.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.69284375,"end":123.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.92284375000001,"end":125.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.20534375000001,"end":127.06596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.48784375000001,"end":134.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.91284375,"end":137.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.62534375,"end":140.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.27471875,"end":143.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.77221875,"end":146.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.01221875000002,"end":150.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.99034375000002,"end":163.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.90409375000002,"end":171.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.52721875,"end":172.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.34971875000002,"end":175.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.99471875,"end":191.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.49471875,"end":202.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.35909375,"end":195.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":197.36721875,"end":197.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.40096875,"end":197.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":197.43471875,"end":197.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.46846875,"end":197.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.86846875,"end":208.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.50034375,"end":209.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.97284375,"end":228.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.92346875,"end":247.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.84034375000002,"end":249.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.56159375000001,"end":250.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.54034375,"end":290.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.20909375,"end":295.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.90034375000005,"end":306.16034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.12221875,"end":327.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.86159375,"end":339.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.55159375,"end":342.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.58909375,"end":344.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.88846875,"end":351.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.61721875,"end":379.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.30909375000005,"end":387.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.65784375000004,"end":390.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.51846875,"end":390.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.65346875,"end":392.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.45471875000004,"end":416.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.02096875,"end":442.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.20221875000004,"end":477.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.82971875000004,"end":493.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.40096875,"end":514.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.6340937499999,"end":517.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.7222187500001,"end":523.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.96596875,"end":529.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.29409375,"end":531.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.15034375,"end":537.2803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.7822187500001,"end":540.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":541.0772187499999,"end":541.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":543.0347187500001,"end":554.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.7334687499999,"end":560.4834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":560.21346875,"end":562.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.1540937500001,"end":563.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.89221875,"end":599.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.8022187500001,"end":611.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.1840937500001,"end":618.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.46159375,"end":628.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.3547187500001,"end":629.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.27409375,"end":631.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.69596875,"end":647.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.86659375,"end":656.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.81846875,"end":688.1765937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.53846875,"end":668.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.4822187500001,"end":677.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.35971875,"end":678.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.8272187500002,"end":683.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.1765937499999,"end":693.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.1840937500001,"end":728.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.2547187499999,"end":731.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.25409375,"end":733.5534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.2622187500001,"end":734.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":734.2790937500001,"end":734.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.31284375,"end":734.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":734.73471875,"end":734.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.1059687500001,"end":770.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.7622187500001,"end":748.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.9465937500001,"end":756.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.7097187500001,"end":759.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":770.9653437500001,"end":780.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.01534375,"end":775.3190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":781.0734687500001,"end":781.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.00159375,"end":794.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":795.7209687500001,"end":801.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.0828437500002,"end":804.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":804.4453437500001,"end":804.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":805.8290937500001,"end":808.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":808.1240937500002,"end":811.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":811.98846875,"end":812.2078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":812.4272187500001,"end":849.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":831.20909375,"end":831.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.24284375,"end":831.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":831.54659375,"end":831.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.66659375,"end":846.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":849.53534375,"end":865.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":865.24596875,"end":878.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":879.20159375,"end":907.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":907.5515937500002,"end":907.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":907.61909375,"end":911.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":911.4665937500001,"end":911.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":911.97284375,"end":912.96846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.169,"end":3.111,"text":"吳司堯委員詢答結束今天要休息嗎?要休息嗎?我讓你們玩完了 待會誰要替我主持?我們就不用忙了翁委員你不可以走我先到隔壁去好 你趕快 趕快請吳司堯委員做詢答沒有啦 做 做 做知 烏 烏"},{"start":29.745,"end":56.778,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝辛苦的熊讚召委請王富密也請我們的次長徐次請王富密還有徐次長委員好進入我今天少事法修法的主題之前我認為台灣的司法部門的獨立我們的司法部門也應當表態中國的跨境鎮壓已經嚴重打擊了我國的司法獨立下一頁"},{"start":57.768,"end":79.308,"text":"所以說當中華民國立法院的沈伯陽委員面對中國這種長臂管轄他傷害的是台灣的法治傷害的更是台灣的國會尊嚴所以民進黨希望透過朝野不分黨派一起來聲明反制我們會持續努力非常遺憾"},{"start":80.289,"end":106.409,"text":"民進黨團要求國會共同聲明來力挺我們的國會議員的這件事情呢到目前為止在野黨兩黨選擇噤聲面對中國他們似乎就選擇了姑息昨天賴清德總統也清楚的對外來宣誓要捍衛保護每一個國人的權利跟安全畢竟今天沈伯陽明天任何人"},{"start":107.23,"end":133.44,"text":"立法院的是民進黨團持續來努力我們不會放棄在國會表達嚴正立場的這一份朝野應當有一個共同聲明民進黨會持續努力但是呢在我們所有的行政部門外交部陸委會警政署乃至於國安會針對這件事情中國的長臂管轄大打法律戰"},{"start":134.946,"end":162.637,"text":"各相關部門都發生了跟司法院沒有關係嗎跟法務部沒有關係嗎台灣的司法權限被對岸如此的踐踏欺凌要長臂管轄危及我國的國人我認為我們的司法機關不能夠沒有表態 沒有說明所以我今天就這個機會短短的時間"},{"start":164.736,"end":175.183,"text":"請兩位我們重要的司法機關今天備詢的代表簡要來表達我們的立場好嗎下一頁是誰先徐次"},{"start":178.018,"end":201.161,"text":"好 各位委員報告中國片面宣稱對我國的法律定位跟單方頒布法規對我國人發布通緝立案調查等作為對我國民眾不伸任何拘束力所以我們嚴正表達國人不用怕中國管不到台灣他的治權不及於台灣捍衛我們的司法獨立好 來 請"},{"start":203.049,"end":227.176,"text":"台灣是一個獨立治權的那個地方那我們司法權也是獨立的所以不容別人對我們的任何國人還有立法委員甚至他是以捏造犯罪的方式他可能先發布了這種棄拿立案接著可能是缺席懲判接著也會是全球的通緝"},{"start":228.957,"end":249.165,"text":"台灣我們是民主法治國家我們NEVER對任何一國的國會議員基於沒有犯罪的事實捏造他的罪名而且是這種政治思想罪名然後對任何他國的國人施以這種作為吧我們不會NEVER NEVER NEVER"},{"start":250.625,"end":272.799,"text":"所以說我今天我一直蠻遺憾的我一直在等法務部跟司法院應當嚴正的主動對外來捍衛我國的司法獨立但我藉由短短的時間中國是全球的首惡在世界各國他們目前160起跨境鎮壓的事件中國是之惡之首22%是由中國發動的下一頁"},{"start":276.061,"end":294.869,"text":"所以對於台灣的長臂管轄不管是對於我們的軍方人員 新戰大隊人員片面的來懸賞片面的來立案調查完全都不及於台灣我們不用怕下一頁吳斯堯本人也被他列為是台獨打手"},{"start":295.956,"end":305.916,"text":"那當然沈博洋是讓這一次全台灣大家群情激憤我們共同要捍衛司法獨立的主要的一個對象好 最後"},{"start":307.162,"end":327.003,"text":"我希望未來在類似的事件中國羅織罪名複合式的壓迫法律戰絕對是非常重要的一環只要干預到我們的司法獨立我國的法治權限我再一次提醒也希望"},{"start":328.004,"end":350.909,"text":"司法院也好法務部也好都應當主動積極的表明立場這是我們不可退讓的主權我們不可退讓的司法獨立我再次提醒好嗎因為今天用了我五分鐘的時間好下一頁今天少事法的修法修法之後and land我認為要系統性對症下藥下一頁"},{"start":352.677,"end":379.27,"text":"我當然肯定我們落實國際的兒童人權公約在55條55-2 56條確保符合少年最佳的利益我們採取多樣化的處置我支持同樣的對於加嚴少年前案記錄的塗銷機制我目前也傾向可以支持你們的提案但是我要問這個定三年的這個期限"},{"start":380.59,"end":387.678,"text":"會不會違反了國際的權力公約的疑慮可不可能 你們周延考量過了嗎"},{"start":389.893,"end":414.68,"text":"誰可以回答我請廳長來回覆好 是委員好 是有關於三年這樣的定案就是是在當時形成這個政策前做了非常多的實務的蒐集以及再換的一些分析最後就是學者的建議還有參佐國際的一些立法"},{"start":415.3,"end":441.633,"text":"我完全理解基於實務的研析然後也有參採國際的做法這是重點不要為了這個修法我們固然要求取社會安全跟少年需求保護的平衡但是也不要走回頭路我們也不應當為了修法不小心去觸犯了國際的那個權利公約的那個底線OK我提醒你們我相信你們也做好研議下一頁"},{"start":443.254,"end":468.029,"text":"但是呢法治這幾年來更健全了政策更精進了可是少年的事件是不減反增喔這是我前陣子去聆聽一個演講是更生少年關懷協會他們做的一個數字當然每一個數字在我看來都驚心動魄簡言之從少年的嫌疑犯還有少年犯罪的人口率甚至再犯率"},{"start":468.689,"end":493.085,"text":"都是讓人非常驚駭的數字因為它是不減反增的所以我們需要系統性的去診斷跟下手下眼而最新的少年的犯罪類型淪為詐騙集團的最佳利用工具六成是車手就當然在這一類的犯罪類型裡頭我們要擴大保護少年不容易被騙"},{"start":494.666,"end":513.688,"text":"這個我們要做 下一頁但是我今天要提出來的系統性我有follow到行政院事實上提出了這一個三級預防全面性的預防兒童及青少年的犯罪方案四年七十六億這個方案大家都involve對不對 大家一起催生"},{"start":514.71,"end":537.024,"text":"那這個問題大哉問了我們希望逐年減少少年處罰的人數年減1%如果以剛剛我提供的數字其實我們的成長率是高的能做到嗎四年76億在三級預防的機制來徐次長你是主管部會之一"},{"start":543.286,"end":561.779,"text":"我想我們從宣導面、防治面跟查紀面都要努力真的要努力目標是不容易但是大家要努力努力做到所以我們自己知道年減1%的少年處罰人數是不容易的是不容易但是我們要努力"},{"start":562.199,"end":581.093,"text":"好 努力做到 努力做到我會每一年 如果我在司法法治委員會我每年會追蹤這個數字這是系統性 我非常支持一定要系統性的去看待這個問題但是 系統性有了4年76億但是我今天替你們點出一些個別執行的BIOS 下一頁"},{"start":581.974,"end":596.371,"text":"首先 邵府會絕對是一個非常重要的我們要行政輔導先行 司法處遇在後但是當我發現2023年到2024年各地方政府邵府會的修建輔導數是4022件"},{"start":599.875,"end":626.324,"text":"但是呢明明要輔導先行可是呢2024年我統計出來的司法處遇進到少年法庭去受理的案件卻是5.76倍而這個當中會不會有漏接的數字也就是說我相信很多是連輔導都沒有touch到這群人直接就是少年法庭去審理了這樣一個狀況怎麼強化"},{"start":631.771,"end":654.988,"text":"來那個向委員報告之所以會呈現這樣的數字是因為進到那個少年那個法院的他除了就是說是這個曝險的之外他很多是那個觸犯刑事法律所以他不經過先行就是直接進到那我問一下那如果有一些非這類的案件他應當先輔導再來送司法處遇而這個漏接率高嗎我應該這樣問"},{"start":657.864,"end":676.859,"text":"委員好 這一部分是目前的設計是不會的鋪選先行輔導那有兩類第一類就是又觸法就會送到少年法院那少年法院的法官已經訂好法官可以去審查完要求少輔會不可以停止繼續鋪選輔導就兩邊那第二類就是少輔會認為所有輔導都用盡了沒辦法"},{"start":683.064,"end":702.078,"text":"那就送到我們這邊來我們就以普選的分案來進行是這兩類好那這個跟我的認知有一點落差沒關係我會持續的來研究好謝謝您的回答下頁第二個問題安置輔導的人數銳減我這裡整理出近十年安置輔導人數統計從2015年154人一年到2024年一年只有15人"},{"start":708.622,"end":733.339,"text":"監察院在2019年也已經調查要求司法院跟衛福部要檢討對於這種無法媒合適當的安置機構對於偏遠地區的專業資源不足對於特殊狀況的少年特別難以去尋找願意來安置的機構這些都是困難跟問題一年只安置15人這個數字我覺得很難接受耶"},{"start":734.455,"end":759.236,"text":"複命謝謝委員提出的問題因為委員所講的呈現這個現象呢也是我們少年法院的痛因為安置輔導他是一個對某些孩子來講適當的一個處分非常重要的我們那個因為法院畢竟是那個司法權那安置這是屬於那個設政機構是屬於行政端所以衛福部跟司法院都要一起看怎麼來做嗎"},{"start":760.017,"end":780.499,"text":"因為現在像現在目前全國目前可以接受那個司法安置只有11家25個床位他的量能就這麼少那如果說我們讓兩院當然是行政院的衛福部跟司法院共同來研議去建置一個專屬的少年的安置"},{"start":782.179,"end":804.228,"text":"機構可不可行我們就用一個新的大的計畫來做有沒有可能否則你會去依賴現在有的安置機構他能夠offer的空間人力物力的限制不是嗎這個部分其實司法院持續都有跟衛福部這個地方在開會有沒有可能這已經講很久了"},{"start":806.313,"end":811.21,"text":"是 报告委员我们持续那个刚刚那个四年七十六亿没有这方面的规划"},{"start":812.548,"end":839.676,"text":"我們持續一直在跟主管安置機構的社家署做相關的研議目前有兩個作為比較積極一個就是達成協議說各縣市的社會局設有一個窗口在媒合司法少年所以各單位各少年法庭需要的會去跟他們的窗口連結但媒合成功的是有一定但是也有沒成功的"},{"start":840.516,"end":863.852,"text":"沒成功的很多啊但是非常需要委員說的事權統一但現在還繼續在雙方協商中請你們去回去研議三個月內來針對這個國家來成立一個跨院的合作專屬的安置醫療機構可行性評估一下我必須持續追蹤這件事情好嗎 否則我們就會"},{"start":865.473,"end":877.981,"text":"求助無門也都過度依賴現有的安置機構好我知道主持要站起來了我後面有幾個問題來下一個包括矯正學校的運作管理的疏失包括下一頁"},{"start":879.249,"end":907.063,"text":"包括我們的霸凌防制2025上路但是只用於四間少角校18間的少年關護所是outsider我提出來請你們檢討最後一個我們的少年調查保護官的人力不足缺的人力是上百人好幾百位喔這後續有機會我會再就教於各位但是我希望能夠全面性的來提點出這些的問題之後才能夠系統性的有效的來解決"},{"start":907.703,"end":908.405,"text":"不好意思 再用時間 我們下一次再討論謝謝幾位 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165275","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165275","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe359cc38a723d741a18abc180ec3481d02a983a90274432617a7eba39b12b3691e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝龍介","委員發言時間":"11:12:17 - 11:24:26","影片長度":"00:12:09","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:12:17+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:24:26+08:00","duration":729,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.47159375,"end":16.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.51346875,"end":18.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.032218750000002,"end":20.297843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.12034375,"end":22.609718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.79534375,"end":23.925968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.63034375,"end":26.727218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.140343750000003,"end":32.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.20721875,"end":37.088468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.64534375,"end":37.830968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.94471875,"end":42.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.85971875,"end":47.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.939093750000005,"end":49.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.20034375,"end":51.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.97221875,"end":52.799093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.220968750000004,"end":54.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.27971875,"end":55.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.40596875000001,"end":60.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.60784375,"end":66.55221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.17659375000001,"end":67.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.93596875,"end":73.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.97721875,"end":76.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.87971875000001,"end":80.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.06471875000001,"end":82.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.02659375,"end":82.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.76909375000001,"end":82.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.85346875,"end":82.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.87034375,"end":83.64659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.88721875,"end":96.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.97784375,"end":98.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.00721875,"end":98.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.29409375,"end":98.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.31096875,"end":99.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.26846875000001,"end":100.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.80409375,"end":102.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.01909375000001,"end":103.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.79096875,"end":107.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.62159375,"end":112.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.48159375,"end":115.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.96221875,"end":118.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.14721875000001,"end":120.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.97409375000001,"end":122.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.11721875,"end":124.09596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.33221875000001,"end":124.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.68221875,"end":127.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.56784375,"end":129.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.87971875,"end":132.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.12409375000001,"end":135.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.97596875000002,"end":137.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.83221875,"end":144.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.73409375,"end":145.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.33721875,"end":149.86409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.43784375,"end":151.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.98596875,"end":154.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.27221875,"end":158.35221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.48721875,"end":158.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.19596875000002,"end":160.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.76534375,"end":163.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.29659375,"end":163.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.48221875000002,"end":164.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.51596875,"end":164.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.89971875,"end":164.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.20346875,"end":165.99659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.95846875,"end":171.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.35846875000001,"end":176.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.15096875,"end":177.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.97784375,"end":179.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.94784375,"end":181.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.75346875000002,"end":183.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.32721875000001,"end":184.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.11596875,"end":191.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.23284375,"end":195.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.74721875,"end":197.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.29534375,"end":198.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.39221875,"end":199.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.43846875000003,"end":206.93534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.15034375000002,"end":209.34846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.05284375000002,"end":213.09471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.97221875000002,"end":215.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.38534375,"end":216.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.07721875000001,"end":219.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.92471875,"end":221.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.03846875000002,"end":222.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.09721875000002,"end":226.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.72096875000003,"end":231.23534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.65284375000002,"end":234.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.51284375,"end":238.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.40721875000003,"end":239.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.03159375,"end":239.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.28034375000001,"end":240.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.29721875,"end":241.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.74846875000003,"end":242.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.90846875000003,"end":245.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.27096875,"end":246.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.06409375,"end":251.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.56971875000002,"end":262.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.45971875,"end":253.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.43846875000003,"end":254.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.98596875000004,"end":262.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.40346875,"end":262.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.55534375,"end":262.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.43284375,"end":264.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.49159375,"end":265.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.99784375,"end":266.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.87534375,"end":267.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.26721875000004,"end":276.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.56159375000004,"end":277.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.40534375000004,"end":278.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.92409375,"end":279.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.91971875,"end":280.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.74659375000005,"end":280.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.94909375000003,"end":282.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.72534375000004,"end":282.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.48034375000003,"end":284.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.77971875000003,"end":285.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.06221875,"end":286.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.88471875,"end":293.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.22596875,"end":301.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.31284375,"end":303.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.67534375,"end":305.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.91971875,"end":311.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.04159375,"end":310.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.50971875000005,"end":312.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.45034375,"end":316.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.49596875000003,"end":319.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.26784375,"end":324.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.97596875,"end":328.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.85721875,"end":330.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.94971875000005,"end":343.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.09534375000004,"end":345.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.02346875,"end":345.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.33971875000003,"end":348.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.61784375,"end":350.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.96346875,"end":352.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.42721875,"end":353.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.44409375000004,"end":353.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.46096875,"end":353.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.96721875000003,"end":354.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.03471875,"end":354.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.88659375000003,"end":356.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.34221875000003,"end":357.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.91596875000005,"end":358.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.00034375,"end":365.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.57409375000003,"end":359.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.50971875000005,"end":374.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.16221875,"end":379.39784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.68471875,"end":382.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.38471875000005,"end":382.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.72221875,"end":384.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.78096875,"end":385.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.74284375,"end":387.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.18971875,"end":393.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.12971875000005,"end":395.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.69909375000003,"end":396.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.33596875,"end":398.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.46221875000003,"end":400.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.94721875000005,"end":402.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.03971875,"end":404.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.43596875000003,"end":406.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.78596875000005,"end":407.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.79846875000004,"end":408.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.08096875,"end":409.70534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.29596875000004,"end":412.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.86096875000004,"end":414.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.58221875000004,"end":416.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.13034375,"end":419.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.30284375,"end":421.09596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.75409375000004,"end":431.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.03096875,"end":433.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.53284375000004,"end":435.40596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.16096875000005,"end":444.68721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.26096875,"end":450.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.40784375000004,"end":459.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.56659375000004,"end":463.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.21159375,"end":467.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.63721875000005,"end":467.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.44721875000005,"end":470.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.09659375,"end":471.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.41284375000004,"end":475.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.90596875000006,"end":476.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.13784375000006,"end":480.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.49596875000003,"end":481.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.41971875,"end":482.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.14534375000005,"end":484.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.18721875000006,"end":485.60909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.96346875,"end":486.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.80721875,"end":487.85346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.42721875,"end":490.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.27909375,"end":492.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.57846875,"end":494.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.04221875,"end":496.12221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.78034375000004,"end":498.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.12596875,"end":501.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.78784375000004,"end":518.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.02159375,"end":519.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.05096875,"end":527.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.3703437500001,"end":530.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.96909375,"end":531.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.9265937499999,"end":535.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.2509687500001,"end":537.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.15784375,"end":539.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.32221875,"end":541.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.54971875,"end":541.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.56221875,"end":543.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.77721875,"end":543.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.91221875,"end":547.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.92909375,"end":544.3172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.40096875,"end":549.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.53159375,"end":549.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.97034375,"end":551.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.4509687500001,"end":553.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.2397187500001,"end":557.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.4965937500001,"end":558.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.0659687500001,"end":560.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.80409375,"end":562.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.81221875,"end":564.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.9722187500001,"end":566.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.0522187500001,"end":568.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.5834687500001,"end":569.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.3215937500001,"end":571.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.5872187500001,"end":572.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.8528437500001,"end":572.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.92034375,"end":573.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.07221875,"end":573.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.5447187500001,"end":577.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.4934687500001,"end":577.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.69596875,"end":584.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.7803437499999,"end":578.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.4965937500001,"end":587.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.66909375,"end":589.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.1328437500001,"end":592.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.57971875,"end":595.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.81971875,"end":601.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.3547187500001,"end":603.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.3628437500001,"end":604.3584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.84784375,"end":606.4678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.78846875,"end":608.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.49284375,"end":609.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.1297187499999,"end":611.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.96909375,"end":612.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.7959687499999,"end":615.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.37784375,"end":615.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.39471875,"end":616.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.60971875,"end":623.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.5203437499999,"end":624.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.76034375,"end":625.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.33409375,"end":630.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.3459687500001,"end":632.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.52284375,"end":640.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.75409375,"end":638.3447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.9097187500001,"end":642.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.47909375,"end":645.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.2847187500001,"end":656.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.6584687500001,"end":659.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.5859687500001,"end":660.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.6028437500001,"end":661.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.19346875,"end":663.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.1340937500001,"end":663.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.8090937500001,"end":672.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.15471875,"end":666.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.9265937499999,"end":670.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.9978437500001,"end":671.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.0734687500001,"end":673.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.9678437500002,"end":677.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.11909375,"end":680.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.88659375,"end":683.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.7890937500001,"end":687.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.04159375,"end":689.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.18471875,"end":696.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.66471875,"end":713.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.97846875,"end":722.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.3147187500001,"end":723.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.49596875,"end":725.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.2465937500001,"end":727.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.9890937499999,"end":727.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.13659375,"end":728.96346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":15.709,"end":26.098,"text":"主席 我請你出座好 請署長 請次長委員長老大 出座我請教你內處在這個單行選拔選手和協會中間發生這個問題"},{"start":39.031,"end":44.152,"text":"是制度的問題是選擇制度的問題這才是協會臨時背棄的問題你參與這10年來的體育界這問題你怎麼看報告委員 我覺得這部分主要是協會"},{"start":62.834,"end":72.645,"text":"臨時的憑證的問題憑證的年齡不夠歡迎出他的姓氏不夠高請到比較好的憑證人員所以這部分問題是可以因為憑證的問題造成我們對國家選手的選擇"},{"start":81.104,"end":92.847,"text":"阿伊朝大婚嗎?所以保委員不行所以我們現在要在運動員委員會要來處理選舉的問題現任的選手來做委員就是沒辦法就是這個原因現任的選手來做委員為什麼結局很困難啊好協會你剛才說的他要再主張經費"},{"start":108.889,"end":121.553,"text":"一年要穿三、四千萬、兩、三千萬不定你叫這些選秀出身的,大家我就去種植,我就去運動當然,可以政協委員,這是政協會的風雲但是社會內心的人,他來參與"},{"start":130.916,"end":151.002,"text":"他如果有健康的心態又再合夥我願意出一出推展單行運動但我並不想要去改變這個運動的規則因為這是影響選手選中譬如說只要說這個愛孩子比賽拿勝負不太好這差不多是國單行你認為這是不是一個問題這我不知道要怎麼回答不用 你坦白說好了"},{"start":160.831,"end":170.017,"text":"沒有對錯啦 有改善的空間嗎當然我們可以進一步 因為我們現在選區可以運動可以去找更好的地方 更好的地方這件事情我覺得是很正面的是啊 但是如果變成輪迴 輪迴的操作"},{"start":183.59,"end":195.193,"text":"鼠心鼠勇 那就失去我們國家提供這個資源跟機會要給這些辛苦訓練的孩子嘛 是這我本身是經歷過的 我應該有講過給你聽吧我們不用點名 就是說在這個制度裡面有很多沒有的所以你現在要運動完 去領導協會 你會有很大的阻力"},{"start":211.104,"end":226.012,"text":"因為市長有市長的技術運動有運動的規則尤其體育界先敗後敗之間坦白說很難打破啊你如果要努力當然本身是可以支持你譬如說現在奧林匹克委員會請人家有幾個是參加過奧林匹克的沒多少沒多少有幾個嘛"},{"start":240.747,"end":261.023,"text":"報告委員 我不知道我看一個就沒有了有啦 像朱牧炎就是這樣當委員的 委員的來 整個像朱牧炎就是這樣朱牧炎就是這樣 蔡英成也是這樣 蔡英成也是這樣他們都是委員他們可以影響整個奧林匹克委員會我們體育的遭受當然 為甚麼現在 我想你應該聽過"},{"start":270.382,"end":286.46,"text":"參加過奧林匹克這裡的選手他們準備要另外組織一個奧林匹克人的委員會感受嗎已經成立了成立了一定成立了他的目的要怎麼樣當然希望可以"},{"start":287.932,"end":298.317,"text":"主要言語以外啦 都是算好友嘛但是最重要的是改善改善民眾玩樂的環境那麼對我們國家體育政策和對外代表基本上應該是沒辦法去撼動啦他們有想要想要多多參與你認為這是正面 有正面嗎正好正好嘛最好可以做出電腦改變"},{"start":318.544,"end":342.724,"text":"我這邊 我回到我來找奧運人學會的理事長 理事長來談一下沒有啦 你出人頭要做什麼啦我是說 最後我們國的奧林匹克委員會對我的興奮地位 我想是真的很要撼動啊你現在是要推動 改變 提高嗎有這個想法嗎 政府有這個想法加入嗎沒有 我是在"},{"start":346.38,"end":360.888,"text":"中華奧會讓他們自己處理讓他們自己處理?是那他們的處理方向是怎麼樣?他們的內部有算計啊你們在等你不講啊對啦,我們沒有去主導啦,沒有啦我們現在就是尊重他們在內部的那個體育是一個很龐大的三頁啦比較多可以三頁的話,其實政府就可以"},{"start":375.299,"end":404.034,"text":"事本公佈 如果沒有那套三合法 政府拖著走你們就很累了 選手也很累了 合法也很累了所以針對這個合法的健康當然有接受合法來的接受人 曾經有個人偏差的行為 那我們都理解 但是選法的制度跟辦法在這個制定裡面 你們的概念就是說"},{"start":405.515,"end":426.228,"text":"自由 公平然後 放自主 放改善這樣辦法起來 協會要存取操作的空間 主人就借這樣來 不用三天兩夜 有天沒天就出一個協會的什麼事情出一個選區 個案狀 這個去訪澳門可是這是一個聯盟的運動單項的時候政府就對手了"},{"start":433.632,"end":452.988,"text":"政府的形象就更正常了嘛所以在這裡剛才有人提起到普羅野球中國大陸要發展這個東西我在這裡你的看法不是對的啦但是我現在要說因為這是一個世界性尤其台灣人很介意的一種運動這個野球可以說是專門運動甚至合成我們的國球"},{"start":460.629,"end":465.074,"text":"那麼台中有龐大的市場這個市場若是讓他這一天發財後"},{"start":469.39,"end":495.738,"text":"這個製鴨發料當然世界主流的世界選手是主流流動的是頭部的到MLB、大聯盟去有的到日本去有的到小聯盟那麼所有的製鴨聯盟最好在大聯盟拍攝以後拍攝以後還有存在的展用的價值"},{"start":496.818,"end":498.043,"text":"還可以再來我們台灣打到有一年如果是台聯盟"},{"start":502.993,"end":529.762,"text":"一級的選手就像歐丹尼這種的願意來台灣打在電風的時候來台灣打球那就是我們的三鴨大大的成功了現在不是啊 沒錯他也不欠你錢你也不欠他本地的技術對不對變成大家這樣嘛所以在三鴨球跟加州的鴨球裡面這就是你的責任 你要怎麼去推動跟三級的鴨球後來大陸這個市場起來是以後"},{"start":532.964,"end":559.759,"text":"這就不敢去作動台灣新婚中華民國新婚的野球選手不能去中國大陸打球不可能所以委員你剛才講的完全正確我們就是要逐一先壯大起來主要化市場主要化的競爭我們的市場他們的薪水如果一個月欠五萬我們這裡的薪水可以欠十五萬沒有人要去嘛"},{"start":562.867,"end":572.559,"text":"他的薪水如果是五萬的人民票到五萬的美金的時候我告訴你我們這裡的大小貨都要走了"},{"start":573.978,"end":592.937,"text":"這是一個市場自由化來的 競爭來的本身希望說 最好不要用政敵的手段來介入不管中央也好 全世界也好 聯合一個單行的運動政敵千千萬萬 不能介入體育或者這個體育真的有可能到最後就糟蹋了"},{"start":595.865,"end":620.379,"text":"如果要用經濟蓋在體育最好,我們在世界所有的比賽,我們會受到最大影響。坦白說,經濟局勢對我們不利,那麼在這樣的情形下,我們就要朝向健康正面的發展,來看待這個運動。你覺得怎麼樣?所以我完全贊成,我們現在就是要幫忙中華之棒,大家參加,三頁,來重大起來。"},{"start":624.821,"end":634.425,"text":"我們為陣營不管是培訓的前景費還是說他們的賽場這裡的場館整修這都我們出錢的我們怎麼出啊接下來他們現在在不管是高速攝影機或是關賽"},{"start":641.208,"end":658.774,"text":"他們這裡...我們現在是要讓球迷,他們在觀賽感受...三級的野球平安啊,不就沒辦法完完,不斷選手,不斷播放出來,沒好的選手,沒精采的比賽,我告訴你,你再給他起一個世界...不,議員,那部門本來我們在你做啊,那部門很重要,一定會做。你們會做?一定,本來就要做啊,現在也在做。"},{"start":664.017,"end":689.116,"text":"過去是完全不久的 我跟你們說 我很關心野球 我一路就對了台南市的上次野球局是我推薦的 我也不熱情替總統所以很清楚 我不是跟你說這樣就不行了加把勁 落實三級野球 基層的野球有搞定過去不要讓孩子打球 要踏車就是說 打球不出團啦"},{"start":690.219,"end":701.783,"text":"但是現在有PRO野球之後,變成這是一個三脚,三脚越擴大,變成這個運動單方的,他主人,腳中就玩意,讓孩子對play的心態開始,到最後十個,一百個裡面反正站不住一個,五百個裡面站一個選手,我要說不斷不斷這樣,每一天有新的營養出來。"},{"start":714.088,"end":722.896,"text":"我們這個野球會不斷健康其他世界的好手他們比較願意來參與這樣這個野球的戰略就會越來越輝煌長大謝謝你謝謝委員OK 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165274","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165274","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe39c4de2a991a8e46eb62a46119727b9b9a983a902744326173e3ed5aee600c39c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"11:08:15 - 11:20:11","影片長度":"00:11:56","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:08:15+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:20:11+08:00","duration":716,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.414093750000001,"end":7.3209687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.422218750000001,"end":8.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.193468750000001,"end":13.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.969718750000002,"end":20.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.07409375,"end":23.622218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.02721875,"end":26.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.570968750000002,"end":32.430968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.768468750000004,"end":37.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.10096875,"end":39.619718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.49721875,"end":46.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.84221875,"end":51.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":51.76971875,"end":56.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.60846875,"end":59.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.78096875000001,"end":73.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.14596875000001,"end":81.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.65534375,"end":88.69221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.21096875,"end":101.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.80534375,"end":95.88096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":97.21409375,"end":97.51784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":101.44971875,"end":103.87971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.97659375,"end":119.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.01409375,"end":109.36409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.59909375000001,"end":120.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.15971875000001,"end":122.62784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.88096875000001,"end":122.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":122.89784375,"end":125.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.20159375,"end":123.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.46721875,"end":129.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.40784375000001,"end":126.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.61409375,"end":132.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":134.11971875,"end":136.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.00534375,"end":141.10596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":141.74721875,"end":152.51346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.91846875000002,"end":156.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.60971875,"end":160.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":161.49096875,"end":166.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.04284375,"end":169.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.55721875,"end":171.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.18971875,"end":190.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":190.17846875,"end":194.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.54909375000003,"end":200.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.19346875000002,"end":205.16346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":204.20159375,"end":207.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.73721875,"end":207.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.91409375,"end":210.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.49596875,"end":229.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":230.17221875,"end":237.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.72846875000002,"end":234.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.08659375000002,"end":242.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":243.14909375000002,"end":247.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":248.83596875,"end":250.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.96221875,"end":271.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.44221875,"end":260.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":261.47534375000004,"end":272.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.10221875,"end":275.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":275.63346875,"end":277.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":278.06346875,"end":279.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.51034375,"end":281.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":282.14721875000004,"end":285.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":288.01971875000004,"end":289.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.74096875000004,"end":292.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.08221875000004,"end":297.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":298.38096875,"end":302.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":302.97096875,"end":304.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":305.40096875,"end":311.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":311.96534375000005,"end":318.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":319.79534375000003,"end":322.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.96784375000004,"end":325.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":326.08971875000003,"end":327.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.89534375,"end":330.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":331.08471875000004,"end":332.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":332.97471875,"end":339.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":340.38284375,"end":344.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.19221875,"end":347.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.12846875,"end":350.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":350.65971875,"end":363.36659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.37909375000004,"end":373.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":368.29409375,"end":368.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":373.93034375,"end":382.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.04409375,"end":379.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.56221875,"end":381.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.94159375000004,"end":387.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.97034375000004,"end":388.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":388.18971875,"end":392.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.47659375,"end":393.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":392.74596875000003,"end":401.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.56284375,"end":408.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":409.41846875000005,"end":413.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":415.22346875000005,"end":416.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.28221875,"end":418.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":418.81784375,"end":420.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.97784375000003,"end":423.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":424.31909375000004,"end":438.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.15659375,"end":455.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.36471875,"end":476.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":474.55596875000003,"end":491.16096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.22221875,"end":479.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.31284375,"end":504.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":503.88471875000005,"end":505.53846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.38659375000003,"end":506.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":505.97721875,"end":510.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.39409375,"end":517.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":515.5790937500001,"end":516.7434687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":517.65471875,"end":519.9834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":520.9453437500001,"end":525.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.63221875,"end":541.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.29659375,"end":545.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":543.08534375,"end":556.6359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.51846875,"end":553.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.1928437500001,"end":562.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":563.03159375,"end":563.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":563.87534375,"end":565.1240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.47846875,"end":566.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.40659375,"end":567.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":567.4697187500001,"end":568.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":569.41034375,"end":570.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":571.38471875,"end":572.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":573.89909375,"end":578.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":579.1472187500001,"end":613.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":615.05721875,"end":615.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.12471875,"end":615.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.5803437500001,"end":615.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.90096875,"end":622.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":620.7947187500001,"end":622.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":622.0265937500001,"end":622.0434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.0434687500001,"end":622.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":622.2122187500001,"end":622.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.3134687500001,"end":622.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":622.51596875,"end":622.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.54971875,"end":624.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":622.56659375,"end":624.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.8447187500001,"end":625.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":625.04721875,"end":626.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":627.2240937500001,"end":628.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":628.9622187500001,"end":632.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":633.26534375,"end":636.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":637.31534375,"end":641.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":641.7197187500001,"end":653.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.19034375,"end":656.5022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":656.29971875,"end":658.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":658.37534375,"end":659.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":660.40034375,"end":662.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":663.35346875,"end":664.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":664.9565937500001,"end":666.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":667.6059687500001,"end":669.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":670.47471875,"end":681.1397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":681.1397187500002,"end":689.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.4253437500001,"end":693.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":693.54284375,"end":693.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":693.99846875,"end":694.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":695.4497187500001,"end":695.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":695.4665937500001,"end":696.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":696.66471875,"end":696.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.79534375,"end":697.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":697.81221875,"end":697.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.8290937500001,"end":698.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":698.03159375,"end":699.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":699.9722187500001,"end":701.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":701.5247187500001,"end":711.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.37096875,"end":716.6953437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.801,"end":19.867,"text":"謝謝主席 有請勞動部部長來 請部長黃委員長部長好為了要照顧很多三明治的家庭特別是像我這樣子的年紀"},{"start":21.412,"end":38.614,"text":"在社會上面非常多我們的舊職的中年人為了讓他們比較好的能夠照顧長者我們在上次修舊福法的時候針對80歲以上免罷這亮表這個是在2024年"},{"start":40.846,"end":59.742,"text":"總統大選的時候不管是侯友宜市長還是柯文哲主席都提出來的政見對我們而言在選舉的時候提的政見就是要兌現所以我們在2024年年底的時候我們就推動修了就業服務法八十歲以上免八是量表"},{"start":60.834,"end":88.505,"text":"那個時候 今年7月25號在大罷免投票前一天你在你的臉書上面延遲的批判了本院所通過的三度通過的救福法勞動部發聲明說深感遺憾重症家庭照顧權益會受到犧牲說會產生十數萬的缺口現在新法上路到現在產生的缺口有多少"},{"start":91.094,"end":103.675,"text":"就目前這個部分目前產生的缺口有多少因為修新法會增加的這個聘僱的量大概是一萬好那產生的缺口有多少"},{"start":105.231,"end":131.882,"text":"目前其實當然會有幾個方面啊就是第一個當然是產生的缺口有多少第二件事情是確實現在在這個很多重症家庭的看護他們重症家庭來跟我們反映現在看護所以你認為說器重則輕的現象有發生我們也做出因應沒有 器重則輕的現象是不是有發生我們要盡量的讓它不要發生 是我們也做出了配套 是那所以有發生嗎我們在我們做出配套以後希望能夠盡量減緩"},{"start":134.178,"end":156.58,"text":"我前兩天看到媒體做了非常深入的報導這個報導是我很佩服的報導一個半子願意花這麼長的時間深入針對公共政策修法以及現在的家庭面對的事情進行深度的報導這在台灣目前的媒體圈非常罕見我高度肯定"},{"start":157.662,"end":186.045,"text":"我看了這個報道了以後他上面說了到目前為止有多8000名的長者提出申請遠遠低於預期也沒有看見看護移工器重就輕的現象來東部原本的推估有10萬人可能會聘請會造成現在的看護移工出現缺額的問題等等按照這個媒體他所做的調查報導完全沒有發生"},{"start":187.266,"end":200.872,"text":"針對這件事情 部長你會不會覺得當初勞動部有勞動部的政策立場 我同意但是你當初在大罷免以前的臉書發文的時候是怎麼在抹黑在野黨立委的"},{"start":202.213,"end":229.05,"text":"跟委員說明你要撤回你的估計嗎還是你認為你的估計是正確的跟委員說明我分幾個層次講第一件事情是我們確實為了舊法四六法的修法以後我們其實是做了六個方案的配套措施就是希望要建立減少期中責欠所以我們當然是希望期中責欠的狀況是能夠減少的這也是為什麼我們要花這麼多心力來設計配套方案的原因"},{"start":230.245,"end":247.238,"text":"所以在新法之下 藉由配套方案的設計器重則輕不會發生嘛 對不對我們認為 我們希望它能夠降低對嘛 這個就是我講的重點啦可是委員 我要說你勞動部 有勞動部的立場你在大罷免的前夕發文抹黑在野黨的立委 危言聳聽"},{"start":248.894,"end":276.866,"text":"最後媒體調查出來的結果就不是這個樣子啊文 但是如果你仔細看我其實當時的發文我是針對一件事情沒有關係啦 你的發文社會大眾都可以針對我今天只要求我今天只要求一件事我今天只要求一件事我今天只要求一件事針對救福法新法上路以後到目前你們彩刑的配套"},{"start":278.12,"end":304.556,"text":"你們所看到的衝擊提一份報告給本委員會可以嗎這沒有問題好 需要多久一個禮拜可以吧一個月一個月 好 給你一個月下一個問題2023年民進黨因為連續多起性騷案件被吃案當年引發軒然大波促成性平三法的修法那次的修法新增了"},{"start":305.656,"end":329.173,"text":"對最高負責人或僱用人為職場性騷擾行為必須要加以處罰我相信2023年走過那段時間大家都很心痛國會也動起來了修法現在我們所看到的個案是有一家公司老婆掛董事長老公掛董事結果老公去性騷擾5名"},{"start":331.144,"end":349.709,"text":"外籍的作業員遭到新北市勞工局裁罰裁罰10萬元啦 老實講我覺得是太輕了啦但當初法律也只有定1萬到100萬他可能看公司的size但我老實說裁罰10萬元是太輕了但我現在非常驚訝的是什麼"},{"start":350.709,"end":363.155,"text":"我們當初國會修了法要杜絕這樣的行為新北市勞工局也罰了只罰了10萬塊罰了10萬塊以後人家溯源到勞動部被撤銷這怎麼回事"},{"start":364.417,"end":378.922,"text":"好 跟委員說明其實因為這個案子其實我們內部也做很多的研議所以我們是希望接下來我們其實也做了一些法規上面的修訂也請專家學者來討論我們現在分兩個部分第一個 針對現行法的規定不好意思 請你針對問題回答我問題還沒有問完是 第一個"},{"start":383.084,"end":408.204,"text":"你說你進行研議嘛研議是空的嘛所以我要問具體的嘛第一個 依照現行法的規定依照現行法的規定勞動部現在的這個訴願決定你們覺得是正確還是不正確的依照現行法的規定是正確還不正確的所以你們認為依照現行法的規定把原處分撤銷是正確的"},{"start":409.517,"end":432.656,"text":"好 那現在問題來了所以是當初立法出了問題是不是因為你現在 如果按照你說的依照現行法的規定新北市勞工局裁罰10萬塊那個性騷擾外籍勞工的那一個董事也就是董事長的勞工去性騷擾外籍的作業員10萬塊"},{"start":434.537,"end":455.013,"text":"新北市勞工局所做的那個處分是違法的而勞動部把那個處分給撤銷掉依照現行法的規定你剛剛說你們覺得是正確的那我現在問題來了環節出在哪裡環節出在上一屆國會修這個性平三法的時候沒有修好嗎"},{"start":456.509,"end":478.465,"text":"跟委員報告目前這個性別平等工作法上面的最高負責人講的是公司的代表人那目前公司的代表人的確登記的是這位董事長所以當時訴願決定是撤銷原處分請新北市查明定為釋法處分我沒有要你解釋你現行法怎麼解釋的"},{"start":479.125,"end":505.727,"text":"所以下一個是 所以我的問題來了嘛依照現行法的規定 如果勞動部撤銷員處分是正確的那是不是現行法 也就是上一屆國會修這個法的時候出了問題 是嗎我跟委員報告齁 上次修的時候有一個與其職務相當之人所以現在勞動部 我們的單位是在與其職務相當之人要納入實際副職所以要再推動修法嘛 是的"},{"start":506.087,"end":525.655,"text":"那上次那個與其職務相當之仁是在立法過程當中被刪除嗎沒有刪除啊 就保留這樣子的文字啊所以我們現在那我就聽不懂啦如果要保留這樣子的文字的話那你又說現在勞動部的撤銷處分是正確的 我就聽不懂啦"},{"start":526.927,"end":556.247,"text":"跟委員補充報告因為現行的規定裡面對於實際負責人沒有說的很清楚所以我們的溯源會溯源委員在做個案的時候會依照現在我們還沒有很明確的說實際負責人要納入母法上面的最高負責人先停一下 實際負責人沒有納入母法裡面的負責人這件事情問題出在法規的層次還是出在行政命令的層次"},{"start":557.267,"end":578.152,"text":"我們現在法制作業上面認為在細則或者是解釋令上面是可以處理的對啊 這個就是我的問題啦我現在分兩個區塊如果是立法不當 那立法者負責嘛按照責任政治的ABC啊立法不當 立法者負責嘛"},{"start":579.192,"end":591.668,"text":"那如果是立了法以後下面的行政不管是授權的命令職權的命令解釋的函式是行政機關要負責嗎剛剛你們說那是因為現行的規定規範的不明確我為什麼問的問題要問這麼具體"},{"start":598.096,"end":626.023,"text":"這樣我們才可以在責任政治下面去追究權責嘛現行的規定規範的不清楚那剛剛按照黃奇亞司長的回覆也就是在行政命令或是相關規則的解釋上面規範的不清楚 對嗎是嗎所以跟委員說明這是我剛才說我們其實已經在啟動要來修訂相關細則是啊 所以呢今天如果出現了今天如果出現了"},{"start":627.647,"end":653.266,"text":"這個公司的董事實際上面在指揮在控制這些外籍勞工的人發生性騷擾的行為竟然沒有辦法裁罰而他所出現的原因是勞動部當初就對於法律所授權要定義那個負責任的範圍定義不明讓他刨掉了該被處罰這件事情誰要負責"},{"start":654.207,"end":668.64,"text":"所以這是為什麼我們現在想要修訂的原因啊對嘛 我還是回到洪部長的邏輯嘛在民主政治的ABC下面國會立錯了法 造成了負面效應選民要究責國會嘛"},{"start":670.546,"end":693.843,"text":"行政機關該做的解釋沒有好好做解釋產生了漏洞讓該處罰的人沒有受處罰按照民主政治責任政治的ABC則要負責所以這是為什麼我說行政部門有必要有責任來面對現在的這個細則的狀況應該予以修訂對只要修訂就好了嘛也沒有人需要負責啊所以我一開始就講這個啊對啊我的邏輯還是一樣啊"},{"start":697.864,"end":716.064,"text":"只要修訂就好啦反正勞動部也沒有人要負責嘛我有說錯嗎我們當然要把該修訂的符合法規上面的應該把它修訂清楚我覺得這事情這是我們這幾個月都在進行的工作OK 好好 謝謝接下來請王振旭委員來做審討"}]}},{"id":"165273","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165273","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3f0c4a0cc4d0bf160b62a46119727b9b9a983a902744326173e3ed5aee600c39c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"10:53:16 - 11:08:08","影片長度":"00:14:52","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:53:16+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:08:08+08:00","duration":892,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.6215937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.657843750000001,"end":17.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.437843750000003,"end":16.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.90159375,"end":18.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.69346875,"end":27.452843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.70596875,"end":29.106593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.629718750000002,"end":33.915968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.27034375,"end":37.189718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.24034375,"end":40.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.22284375,"end":42.252218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.70784375,"end":46.572218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.12909375,"end":48.141593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.61409375,"end":49.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.41971875,"end":51.314093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.76971875,"end":52.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.06909375,"end":59.835968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.869718750000004,"end":61.62471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.080343750000004,"end":64.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.54409375,"end":65.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.97846875,"end":68.88096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.85971875,"end":72.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.16721875,"end":74.78721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.15846875000001,"end":75.79971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.13721875,"end":76.86284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.91346875,"end":83.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.98409375,"end":89.73846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.97471875000001,"end":93.77159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.94034375000001,"end":95.25659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.81346875000001,"end":98.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.42909375,"end":99.23909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.45846875000001,"end":99.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.13346875,"end":102.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.23846875000001,"end":103.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.51659375000001,"end":107.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.92971875,"end":112.68846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.97534375000001,"end":115.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.46846875000001,"end":119.48909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.24846875,"end":129.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.93471875,"end":133.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.81159375000001,"end":137.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.22471875000002,"end":139.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.31721875,"end":141.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.89909375000002,"end":143.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.73409375,"end":146.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.45534375,"end":147.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.31159375000001,"end":163.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.12346875,"end":165.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.01346875000002,"end":168.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.86534375000002,"end":171.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.74659375000002,"end":173.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.65784375,"end":174.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.17659375000002,"end":176.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.97784375,"end":179.46284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.43284375000002,"end":185.28471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.57159375,"end":190.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.36409375000002,"end":192.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.32596875000002,"end":191.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.19909375,"end":196.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.49784375000002,"end":207.72846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.25159375,"end":219.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.40159375000002,"end":226.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.50221875000003,"end":224.89034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.31221875000003,"end":226.99971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.74659375000002,"end":234.20534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.44159375,"end":235.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.39909375000002,"end":237.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.43284375000002,"end":240.22971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.06971875000002,"end":239.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.34784375,"end":251.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.32096875000002,"end":253.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.64971875,"end":253.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.44284375,"end":255.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.34971875000002,"end":258.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.63221875,"end":256.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.97784375000003,"end":259.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.37846875,"end":263.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.23471875,"end":268.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.41096875,"end":271.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.54971875,"end":273.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.23721875,"end":278.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.36284375,"end":279.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.81846875,"end":286.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.86909375,"end":279.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.00409375000004,"end":281.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.46721875000003,"end":289.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.50096875,"end":287.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.04471875,"end":295.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.76534375,"end":297.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.97596875,"end":301.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.36346875000004,"end":308.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.84346875,"end":311.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.25221875,"end":319.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.59284375000004,"end":324.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.27971875000003,"end":340.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.12534375,"end":346.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.19284375,"end":341.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.03159375,"end":350.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.67659375,"end":357.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.13971875000004,"end":360.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.08846875,"end":363.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.92346875000004,"end":374.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.85409375,"end":377.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.92159375,"end":376.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.45284375,"end":379.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.81971875000005,"end":398.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.04971875,"end":393.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.90971875,"end":399.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.21346875,"end":406.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.80284375,"end":408.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":408.11909375000005,"end":414.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.49784375,"end":414.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.85221875,"end":414.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.17284375,"end":418.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.42534375,"end":421.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.12096875000003,"end":426.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":427.30596875000003,"end":427.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.97659375,"end":432.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.16159375,"end":436.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.48159375,"end":453.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.82909375,"end":457.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.35596875000005,"end":460.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":461.07284375,"end":527.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.03284375,"end":528.8428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.0959687500001,"end":538.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":538.61346875,"end":540.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.67221875,"end":541.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.83221875,"end":545.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.15659375,"end":551.0165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.52284375,"end":552.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":552.4678437499999,"end":558.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.15034375,"end":569.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.8659687500001,"end":574.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.86096875,"end":574.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.87784375,"end":584.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.02971875,"end":575.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.69909375,"end":624.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.8234687500001,"end":627.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.7978437500001,"end":630.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":631.3584687499999,"end":633.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.63659375,"end":638.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.1084687499999,"end":643.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.76159375,"end":647.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.4865937500001,"end":652.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":652.5365937500001,"end":679.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":679.8234687500001,"end":679.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.8572187500001,"end":679.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":679.9753437500001,"end":680.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.1103437500001,"end":680.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.1272187500001,"end":684.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":684.6497187500001,"end":688.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.24409375,"end":691.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.2859687499999,"end":698.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.5209687500001,"end":705.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.5378437500001,"end":699.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":703.4990937500002,"end":704.3090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.1147187500001,"end":708.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":708.2747187500001,"end":712.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.3415937500001,"end":716.4422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.05409375,"end":718.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.3997187500001,"end":722.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.0278437500001,"end":767.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":767.6240937500002,"end":768.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":768.90659375,"end":771.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.03284375,"end":783.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.3640937499999,"end":787.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":788.1103437500001,"end":790.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":791.0634687500001,"end":792.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":793.00409375,"end":797.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":797.03721875,"end":800.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":797.8640937500002,"end":798.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":800.8172187500002,"end":804.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":804.8672187500001,"end":808.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":807.29721875,"end":808.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":808.59659375,"end":844.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":845.01284375,"end":847.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.7634687500001,"end":847.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.93221875,"end":855.8972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":856.97721875,"end":861.7022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":861.21284375,"end":865.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":863.18721875,"end":864.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":865.0434687500001,"end":873.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":869.09346875,"end":870.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":872.89034375,"end":881.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":875.1684687500001,"end":875.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":880.2140937500001,"end":887.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":884.5678437500001,"end":885.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":886.74471875,"end":887.2509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":887.2509687500001,"end":887.3015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":887.36909375,"end":887.7234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":887.6897187500001,"end":888.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":887.7234687500002,"end":887.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":887.74034375,"end":887.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":887.9765937500001,"end":888.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":888.31409375,"end":888.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":889.73159375,"end":890.44034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.695,"end":13.516,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那麻煩請我們勞動部紅部長還有勞發署黃署長還有署長"},{"start":27.001,"end":49.063,"text":"好 洪部長因為最近我們在臉書社團有看到一個具名的貼文那針對這個當事人描述他透過我們台中的某仲介來聘用家庭看護移工來照顧家裡中風的長者那他在看到這個"},{"start":50.475,"end":68.506,"text":"他聘用的家庭看護移工他履歷中有載名他是有經驗的照顧照護工作長者有照護工作經驗的那後來他實際聘用之後他發現這個聘用的家庭看護移工"},{"start":69.898,"end":95.098,"text":"照顾能力跟卫生观念都很差而且也没有能力为病患备餐后来询问过这个家庭看护移工之后他这个移工也亲口承认他这个照顾经验照护经验是印尼仲介方编造伪造的事实上他完全没有经验也是第一次出国第一次做看护"},{"start":95.879,"end":119.256,"text":"那後來當事人在協調廢聘跟賠償損失的協調過程中最後問這個仲介負責人他說他是轉達印尼仲介方的履歷他並沒有能力去核實 他只是推薦所以最後這仲介方也只同意"},{"start":120.29,"end":147.002,"text":"退還他當初的仲介費27000塊那對於這履歷不實所造成他造戶成本完全沒有處理那在這60天到90天的空窗期當事人勢必要去花更多高額的錢去請這個台籍看護那後來據我們了解這家仲介公司其實在"},{"start":148.359,"end":175.972,"text":"我們的評鑑裡面我們勞動部的評鑑裡面他5年都是最高分的A級還有2年還是GU列為免評那其中在顧客服務裡面他幾乎是拿滿分那我想請問一下部長那像發生這樣子的事情他的履歷偽造編造不實造成我們當事人他這些的損失"},{"start":178.038,"end":196.662,"text":"那到底是誰的責任是跟委員說明有關這個仲介提供不實資料的部分依照舊服法第40條第一項第8款可以大聲一點嗎好像太小聲依照就業服務法第40條第一項第8款"},{"start":198.67,"end":219.407,"text":"對於接受委任辦理聘僱外國人之申請許可招募引進或管理事項提供不實資料的部分我們是可以處罰的依照第65條我們的罰環可以處30到100萬那這是罰環的部分那行政處罰的部分我們也可以視況處以停業跟最重可以到廢止"},{"start":220.484,"end":235.554,"text":"所以其實對於仲介所提供這個履歷不實他是有罰款的那為什麼我們台灣這個仲介說他說這是印尼提印尼仲介提供給他的他沒有辦法核實他也沒有辦法處理"},{"start":236.514,"end":257.883,"text":"他只是負責轉介負責推薦那是這樣子的嗎有關這個部分我想我們依照這樣的個案我們都會交由地方政府去查查那如果查查確實他的資料是提供不實資料的時候我想我們會有後續的處分所以其實我們本身裡面是有這個罰則的那我想請問一下如果這個案例這個過程是事實那到底是"},{"start":259.025,"end":285.337,"text":"台灣仲介方有責任嘛他只是把仲介費推完就沒事了嗎如果說海外的仲介也有過失那原則上我們對海外仲介也有管理我們也會處以一部分的停止或是撤銷他的認可那像說台灣這邊的仲介他只是推薦轉介他沒有核實的義務是這樣子嗎我想可能這個還是要就個案事實去做釐清看責任的歸屬是哪一方"},{"start":286.637,"end":300.513,"text":"對啊 所以剛委員有提到說有關雇主的損失那因為基本上這是屬於民事契約所以雇主一樣可以向勞工提出求償所以我覺得我們勞動部尤其勞發組這邊要看一下因為我們檢視你們"},{"start":302.495,"end":323.815,"text":"私立就業服務機構從事跨國人力仲介服務品質評鑑指標裡面針對顧客服務的這個項目裡面並沒有要求仲介必須查核移工的履歷提供正確的訊息所以難怪在你們評鑑裡面它在顧客服務幾乎是快滿分"},{"start":325.476,"end":346.076,"text":"還有在勞發署提供的外勞與仲介契約僱主與仲介委任契約的範本裡面也沒有要求外勞有義務提供真實履歷或者仲介有核實外勞履歷的義務條款所以契約裡面也沒有這個條款你們評鑑裡面也沒有要求他們要這樣去做"},{"start":347.342,"end":372.739,"text":"報告委員基本上這是基本法尊那KPI可能會針對需要在特別強化的部分去做核分加減分那委員的指教的部分我想我們目前也正在針對評鑑指標全面的在進行檢討那剛剛之前也有委員提到說這個評鑑的指標可能沒有辦法做出良誘之間的這個範這個這個篩略所以我想我們會針對評鑑的部分"},{"start":375.925,"end":396.662,"text":"所以這邊我也跟部長來講一下那針對你看我們剛剛看他從評鑑裡面也沒有你們的契約裡面也沒有所以我希望勞動部跟勞發署一定重視一下針對應該從評鑑還有我們的定期化契約裡面是不是要去做一個適度的修正因為我相信這絕對不是個案"},{"start":398.363,"end":425.214,"text":"因為據我們所知發生很多類似的情況所以是不是應該要再加強這些的規範避免類似的狀況再發生是的謝謝委員好那請我們部長還有署長再多幫忙好這已經我相信這絕對不是個案了好那再接接下來要為我們桃園市針對我們缺工缺了很多客運司機來請命那"},{"start":429.462,"end":451.781,"text":"針對我們客運業開放橋外生留台擔任駕駛這一部分其實不是桃園市缺工缺駕駛據我們了解全台的公共客運缺司機已經成為事實那尤其桃園市本期的選區其實都是屬於比較偏鄉那後來"},{"start":454.875,"end":470.946,"text":"他們為了要增加客運的班次才發現不是不增加有經費有車子可是沒有司機那很多偏鄉都仰賴這個公車公共客運所以這個沒有司機已經造成很大的困擾"},{"start":471.767,"end":489.601,"text":"那後來我們也了解其實勞動部本來在今年初有公告要開放橋外生留台從事客運駕駛工作可是後來臨時又在五月喊卡好像是擔心橋外生的語言能力是否足以擔任客運駕駛"},{"start":490.822,"end":507.602,"text":"那這邊我也跟部長來說明一下據我跟桃園市政府溝通了解過桃園市政府說其實針對這一部分他已經全套的培訓方案都已經出來了那針對小客車駕駛的駕照他持有要兩年"},{"start":508.263,"end":527.332,"text":"然後這橋外生畢業前要取得華語文能力檢定基礎級資格的大士橋生然後經過客運業者面試之後隨即可以參加授訓及就業培訓的計畫而且馬上給他薪水高達五萬元所以"},{"start":528.112,"end":544.753,"text":"基本上這部分他們報名上已經確實有這些人也不會說有外界擔心橋外生語言能力不足而衍生執行服務的風險那針對我們桃園市交通局他說目前"},{"start":546.206,"end":574.121,"text":"他開放僑生已經預先報名就等中央頒布修正法案他就可以縮短人力補充的時程待法令頒布之後就能馬上加入授訓的行列那所以針對這部分勞動部是不是可以研議針對若干的縣市先開放試行舉辦也就是我們試點的概念說這部分部長可以幫忙解決"},{"start":575.141,"end":602.424,"text":"缺司机的问题因为这些相关的这个业务那开放与否其实是会需要目的事业主管机关来向劳动部申请那因为刚刚委员在讲到很多部分因为大家之所以讨论到他的语言能力有个部分就是要去处理大家会很在意这个交通安全上面的问题或运输安全上的问题所以之前我们也跟交通部这边去讨论也就是意思是说"},{"start":604.186,"end":623.447,"text":"如果今天就像剛有這樣子需求的業者他可以跟交通部這邊來提出那跟交通部一起來討論那到底用什麼方式那可以來確認他的在交通安全上面的語言的能力或者相關風險上面的管理風險上面的避免的這個狀況那"},{"start":625.891,"end":647.659,"text":"再來向勞動部這邊來提出申請對所以我剛有跟部長這邊說明因為你們那時候喊咖的原因就是說擔心橋外生的語言能力是否足以擔任客運的價值跟文說明當初是因為確實外界有這樣的聲音那這個聲音主要是因為是不是大家會說那這個語言方面的能力或者是"},{"start":648.519,"end":673.982,"text":"可能他相關因為確實運輸業尤其是司機他其實涉及到是這個運輸跟交通安全上面的問題他甚至會比小客車他的在開這個大的遊覽車他的挑戰也再高一點所以怎麼樣去確認在交通安全上面的風險那這個部分會需要可能相關有需求的業者跟交通部這邊來討論因為"},{"start":675.303,"end":690.319,"text":"勞動部這邊不太有辦法能夠去主管交通安全要怎麼把關的部分所以這部分基本上剛剛也跟部長報告其實相關的疑慮他們已經有提出解決的方案對 但是我說這部分可能要跟目的世界主管機關去討論"},{"start":691.4,"end":717.927,"text":"交通部勞動部然後假設今天桃園市政府說其實他已經預先報名人已經準備好他配套也做好可是因為中央法還是要去跟目的事業主管機關去做這部分的提出所以演繹好到時候再由目的事業主管機關來向勞動部來提出申請那如果有機會的話就我們就用4點4半的方式來做我想我們還是因為涉及到安全的問題大家都會比較謹慎所以這還是要請交通部也要幫忙"},{"start":718.868,"end":734.707,"text":"對 因為交安的部分真的 這不是勞工部可以很專業的能夠處理好 那時間問題 那我再簡單快速問一下因為我們目前也是缺工的問題啦針對救福法規規定 攔領外勞 三年工作許可"},{"start":735.208,"end":759.747,"text":"其實這從民國86年修正到現在已經大概有30年我們現在接到很多工商團體倡議是不是這三年續聘的機制目前很難符合產業缺工的問題是不是可以把這個三年的時間延長延長到四年那也可以減少雇主到期續聘的行政成本"},{"start":760.307,"end":786.991,"text":"也可以適度調整延長工作許可的時間對於移工、雇工我們覺得都是有利的那這部分是不是有機會來調整來延長的確在這個許可期間的延限部分坦白說不同的出發點就有不同的看法可能從工商界來說比較希望拉長可是從勞工團體的角度移工團體的角度希望縮短"},{"start":788.154,"end":803.721,"text":"可是現在很確實 其實你看我們去工廠 工商團體很多真的很確實都是缺工非常嚴重對 所以我表達的意思是說確實這邊各種不同的出發點利害相關方會有不同的看法"},{"start":804.949,"end":830.343,"text":"所以這個企業界希望拉長 部長你去評估一下因為我們看一下109年監察院的調查報告其實超過三年以上停留台灣的移工其實已經超過58%而且這是五年前的數據喔而且我們再看超過六年以上的移工其實也將近四分之一所以其實喔這個"},{"start":831.523,"end":855.649,"text":"移工的需求真的已經是長期的趨勢那我們這30年前修正的我是建議我們來研議看是不是有機會能夠延長解決目前工商團體這很嚴重缺工的問題這真的因為這個議題比方說會有一些國際上面的組織其實他們反而是希望我們要縮短"},{"start":857.011,"end":875.468,"text":"好 那部長我這邊提出來也是幫我們工商團體來提出是 所以我是說這個事情的確大家會有看法上面方向上不一樣的狀況因為現在缺工真的很嚴重希望這個部長來研議一下是 可能會需要缺工的問題是不是有可以朝著這方面來比較需要綜合的思考啦但是的確"},{"start":876.309,"end":886.626,"text":"不同的角色不同利害相關方的期待是不同的我們請往勞動部針對這部分來幫我們衡量評估一下看有沒有機會從這部分來加強改善好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165272","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165272","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3f3961f9d90974bb8906ee7c1e9a76e5aa983a902744326175a7e32037ed90a385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"顏寬恒","委員發言時間":"11:14:46 - 11:23:00","影片長度":"00:08:14","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:14:46+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:23:00+08:00","duration":494,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.40471875,"end":14.290343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.813468750000002,"end":16.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.024093750000002,"end":17.766593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.192218750000002,"end":22.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.79534375,"end":31.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.43534375,"end":34.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.06346875,"end":37.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.98284375,"end":40.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.48034375,"end":42.657218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.01159375,"end":44.040968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.462843750000005,"end":44.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.54284375,"end":48.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.360968750000005,"end":48.782843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.799718750000004,"end":52.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.64721875,"end":53.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.929718750000006,"end":54.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.891593750000006,"end":58.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.009093750000005,"end":60.612218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.78096875000001,"end":63.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.20659375000001,"end":64.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.05034375000001,"end":66.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.78846875,"end":68.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.42096875,"end":70.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.83409375000001,"end":82.38096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.87034375,"end":83.22471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.56221875,"end":84.86159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.96284375,"end":86.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.12284375,"end":88.48971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.59096875,"end":89.29971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.75534375000001,"end":91.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.10909375,"end":107.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.45284375000001,"end":111.45659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.84471875000001,"end":117.16034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.82721875,"end":116.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.09284375000001,"end":142.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.48971875,"end":143.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.02534375000002,"end":154.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.34971875000002,"end":147.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.26846875,"end":160.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.28471875,"end":159.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.91721875000002,"end":164.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.41471875000002,"end":165.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.22034375,"end":168.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.30409375000002,"end":170.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.24909375000001,"end":171.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.95346875,"end":174.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.22721875000002,"end":176.84721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.15096875,"end":178.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.61909375000002,"end":181.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.89284375000003,"end":182.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.12471875,"end":189.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.90846875000003,"end":194.98784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.13971875000001,"end":196.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.86096875,"end":202.31159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.19346875000002,"end":203.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.18909375,"end":213.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.41534375,"end":214.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.76534375,"end":217.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.24596875,"end":221.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.78534375,"end":223.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.35471875000002,"end":226.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.22346875000002,"end":228.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.36221875,"end":235.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.31471875000003,"end":241.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.37721875000003,"end":243.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.60471875000002,"end":244.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.81534375,"end":247.26659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.45221875000001,"end":249.46034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.96659375000002,"end":252.70034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.67909375000002,"end":255.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.99096875000004,"end":257.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.56034375,"end":258.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.91034375000004,"end":261.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.01534375,"end":262.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.06159375000004,"end":263.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.19221875,"end":269.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.08159375,"end":272.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.24159375,"end":272.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.22034375000004,"end":274.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.73909375,"end":277.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.38846875,"end":277.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.23221875,"end":280.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.45971875000004,"end":281.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.06284375,"end":285.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.18034375,"end":294.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.97221875,"end":298.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.48221875,"end":300.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.46909375,"end":302.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.49846875000003,"end":307.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.76784375,"end":321.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.19159375000004,"end":324.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.73971875,"end":327.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.16534375000003,"end":331.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.40534375000004,"end":358.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.85659375,"end":333.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.57409375000003,"end":374.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.29721875,"end":398.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.77034375000005,"end":399.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.18784375,"end":401.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.68971875000005,"end":404.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.35159375,"end":408.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.14846875,"end":416.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.30346875000004,"end":433.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.20784375000005,"end":436.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.97534375000004,"end":461.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.68034375,"end":462.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.74346875000003,"end":465.84846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.27034375000005,"end":482.20034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.36909375000005,"end":494.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.56284375,"end":485.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.59971875,"end":492.81471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.14346875,"end":495.31221875000006}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.735,"end":17.657,"text":"主席各位委員同事各位列席觀眾大家好主席有請金管會彭主委請彭主委"},{"start":21.386,"end":43.303,"text":"主委好請教主委上個星期衛福部宣布將調整補充保費將利息 股利 租金等補充保費從現行的每月結算改採年度計算一年累計逾兩萬就要收取此外還有單筆扣繳上限一千萬提高到五千萬高額獎金"},{"start":45.598,"end":70.499,"text":"扣費門檻調整為最低工資4倍那社保師估計影響高達480萬人那高額這個最快就是116年就要上路結果這個一公佈7個小時就髮夾彎大轉彎行政院長也丟包啦就這個收回這個政策那衛福部"},{"start":71.894,"end":90.713,"text":"竟然說他們沒有告知金管會這麼重大的一個政策理由是說他們認為台灣股市不錯他們認為不會影響到太多所以他們只是請教財務專家而已但是主委身為中華民國"},{"start":94.324,"end":105.197,"text":"掌管所有投資人相關事務的金管會竟然沒有被告知要修這個法是衛福部自己的主意自己的想法還是後面是什麼樣的打算"},{"start":108.476,"end":133.127,"text":"沒有告知我們今晚會是衛福部故意這麼做還是不把我們今晚會放在眼裡請主委說明一下當然不是我想石部長他在要改革健保制度那我覺得他確實也是承擔了很大很大的責任因為他自己主政我能體會而且他也解釋了就是說這個過程實際上還在討論中"},{"start":134.387,"end":160.374,"text":"所以這個沒有跟我們溝通也不是說最後的定案我想我剛才提到委員就是說我們是資本市場的監理者我們捍衛是整個市場的公平性跟透明度我想這部分的話我們會把我們對於這件事情的專業的影響跟可能的項目會是什麼會跟衛福部做充分的說明"},{"start":161.535,"end":180.57,"text":"完全沒有跟金管會來做橫向的溝通對不對 那就都要公佈結果七個小時就馬上收回成命這樣子真的是太不應該了那我想金管會一定要積極的捍衛投資人的權益更重要的就是要主動去這樣子做一些部會的溝通不然他們說財務專家是什麼專家"},{"start":184.052,"end":201.648,"text":"是未到來的何方神聖大家說來者好行所以讓民眾無法接受所以說這個部分再請主委多注意好不好是再請教主委普惠金融的這個核心精神是金融服務不該是少數人的特權"},{"start":202.668,"end":228.031,"text":"對 應該普惠於全民是的 應該是以合理成本安全便捷的取得基本金融服務但實際上我們這些銀髮族就是長者族群或者是偏鄉的這些地區居民他們面臨到許多障礙比如說像部分的老年人口他們連手機都可能還是傳統的那種這種翻蓋 掀蓋型的手機"},{"start":229.412,"end":252.229,"text":"可能也不知道要怎麼樣去提款卡去提款機領錢還要借助子女的幫忙如果假設子女因為工作或不在身邊那他就可能就沒有辦法去操作更何況是現在很多複雜的數位帳戶還有這些行動支付金融工具對長者來說是更加的困難所以對於"},{"start":253.883,"end":269.251,"text":"數位帳戶的管理跟操作他們特別感到陌生使他們在使用這些金融服務的時候會產生抗拒所以說我想很容易因為這樣子的關係所以他對這些金融資訊就沒辦法掌握"},{"start":270.131,"end":297.993,"text":"那很容易就會變成詐騙集團的對象然後趁虛而入那所以我看尤其是我看了一下我們在地方我們這些社區的社區大學他們一些課程完全沒有跟金融教育相關的課程所以我在這邊就是說想要建立金管會就是說針對我們這些有心想要學習金融相關知識的長者社區的長者因為沒有管道嘛那可不可以我們新闢一個管道就是說跟我們地方政府"},{"start":299.814,"end":327.497,"text":"來或者是社區大學來研究開闢有關於這種高齡者金融安全的課程可不可以主委這是一個很好的建議就是說其實我們過去也有跟地方政府做合作只是說剛剛委員提到社區大學常態性的去做這些課程我想這個可能是讓我們在地鄉親能夠更便利的去參與我想這個很謝謝委員的建議我會請我們的相關單位在做金融知識推廣的時候把這個納入考慮"},{"start":328.157,"end":347.39,"text":"好的再請主委一定要把放心事放在這個地方再來我再請教因為時間有限我認為說我國的普惠金融方面還有很多挑戰根據經濟部發布的2024年中小企業白筆書我國中小企業加速在2023年突破了167.4萬創歷史新高佔全體企業達98%以上就業人口數916萬7千人佔全體就業人口數近八成"},{"start":359.498,"end":370.767,"text":"銷售金額超過28兆佔整體企業銷售額比重五成以上可以說我們台灣的護國神山就是我們這些中小企業中小企業"},{"start":375.75,"end":400.975,"text":"經濟市場非常的重要但是我們中小企業取得資金的成本相較於一般自然人還有這些大型企業比較高高出很多那大型企業跟中小企業的這個資他們之間的這種資金濃通的管道落差很大但是中小企業扮演著非常重要的角色所以我認為說金管會應該更重視中小企業這個籌措力薄弱的問題"},{"start":401.795,"end":418.133,"text":"對於中小企業未來能夠有效受惠的方法跟政策主委你有什麼樣的建議呢其實中小企業的融資還有這些的資助一直都是金融監理政策很重要的一環剛剛早上也有其他委員提到因為"},{"start":418.934,"end":433.421,"text":"我們大部分的金融機構都是盈利機構居多所以它當然會如果說沒有做任何的這些的輔助跟管制的情況之下他們都會很正常的會主要以容易做獲利高的這個作為一個"},{"start":434.801,"end":459.236,"text":"主要對象但是剛才委員提到沒有錯中小企業是我們整個企業的骨幹我有跟委員報告就是說我們過去金管會在過去20年來每年都推出計畫去促進金融業鼓勵金融業去加大對中小企業的支持剛好早上委員提到就是20年前我們大概這個比重大概是35對65就是對中小企業的放款大概占35對非中小企業大概占65現在20年後這次翻轉過來"},{"start":461.758,"end":481.749,"text":"就是我們的銀行的放款裡面對中小企業的放款的比重是提高到了大概六成多對其他的反而是到三四成這個是一個好的現象但是實際上中小企業差距也很大我們也知道有些困難的很困難所以才會有一些像信保機制或很多東西的方式我們來支持這樣"},{"start":482.389,"end":492.699,"text":"好 主委我們一起來努力好不好是 一定的台灣的中產企業來給他們最大的一個鼓勵跟一些實質有效的一些政策好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165271","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165271","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3f5f8a919be344ccf906ee7c1e9a76e5aa983a902744326179f207473fb5f34925ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王世堅","委員發言時間":"11:02:46 - 11:14:39","影片長度":"00:11:53","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:02:46+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:14:39+08:00","duration":713,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.06971875,"end":24.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.309718750000002,"end":26.625968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.422843750000002,"end":30.844718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.48159375,"end":33.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.62471875,"end":35.400968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.502218750000004,"end":37.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.08409375,"end":38.775968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.43409375,"end":41.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.408468750000004,"end":43.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.939718750000004,"end":46.892843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.75346875,"end":48.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.267843750000004,"end":51.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.533468750000004,"end":51.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.02284375,"end":55.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.055968750000005,"end":59.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.17784375,"end":61.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.92846875,"end":62.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.89034375000001,"end":65.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.48909375000001,"end":65.70846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.92784375000001,"end":66.75471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.07534375,"end":69.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.65721875,"end":69.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.19721875,"end":72.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.50471875000001,"end":76.44096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.89659375000001,"end":78.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.12409375,"end":89.55284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.19409375000001,"end":94.81784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.84721875000001,"end":99.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.06596875000001,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.42784375000001,"end":109.53284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.71846875000001,"end":110.64659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.37221875,"end":112.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.17784375000001,"end":115.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.51909375000001,"end":127.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.29784375,"end":129.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.06971875000002,"end":145.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.13471875000002,"end":147.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.46346875,"end":149.89784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.40409375000002,"end":153.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.72409375,"end":161.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.46971875,"end":163.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.88284375,"end":168.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.94971875000002,"end":171.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.86909375000002,"end":182.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.64784375000002,"end":186.12846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.19596875000002,"end":186.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.30971875,"end":187.81596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.22096875000003,"end":195.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.66284375,"end":198.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.00409375,"end":199.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.83096875,"end":208.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.11221875,"end":212.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.79096875000002,"end":215.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.74409375000002,"end":217.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.51596875,"end":217.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.34284375000001,"end":221.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.35909375000003,"end":224.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.90721875000003,"end":228.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.29471875000002,"end":232.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.71596875,"end":238.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.15409375000002,"end":238.45784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.94721875000002,"end":264.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.05284375,"end":268.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.40659375,"end":269.87909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.70596875,"end":273.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.03034375000004,"end":281.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.50159375000004,"end":293.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.84159375,"end":295.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.05221875,"end":299.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.89971875000003,"end":308.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.18096875000003,"end":309.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.51409375000003,"end":312.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.65721875,"end":313.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.27721875000003,"end":316.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.80846875000003,"end":318.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.59721875,"end":319.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.28471875,"end":324.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.58784375000005,"end":330.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.62471875,"end":337.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.41284375000004,"end":348.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.02284375000005,"end":353.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.00096875,"end":356.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.73471875,"end":361.07159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.98284375000003,"end":363.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.41284375000004,"end":368.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.95221875000004,"end":370.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.84221875000003,"end":382.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.66346875000005,"end":381.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.30034375,"end":382.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.33409375,"end":382.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.55346875000004,"end":382.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.78971875,"end":383.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.47721875,"end":388.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.45534375,"end":392.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.37034375,"end":395.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.91409375,"end":401.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.89221875000004,"end":402.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.21284375000005,"end":406.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.00534375,"end":408.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.01346875,"end":409.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.43096875000003,"end":414.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.86909375000005,"end":418.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.22284375000004,"end":424.92659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.61846875000003,"end":432.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.34721875,"end":433.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.56221875000006,"end":437.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.92034375000003,"end":439.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.24909375000004,"end":443.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.46784375000004,"end":453.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.93471875,"end":463.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.71784375000004,"end":468.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.76346875,"end":470.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.23159375000006,"end":473.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.96534375000005,"end":478.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.97721875,"end":481.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.03159375,"end":486.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.72284375000004,"end":487.75221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.42721875,"end":501.60659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.67409375000005,"end":532.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.38221875,"end":535.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.1497187500001,"end":537.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.8584687499999,"end":537.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.88346875,"end":539.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.0647187500001,"end":571.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.24159375,"end":569.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.4184687500001,"end":571.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.05971875,"end":579.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.0247187500001,"end":593.3897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.1215937500001,"end":581.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.2734687500001,"end":581.2903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.98034375,"end":600.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.18596875,"end":602.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.85659375,"end":603.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.6328437500001,"end":616.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.7040937500001,"end":606.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.62659375,"end":618.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.61346875,"end":620.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.71034375,"end":632.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.26534375,"end":636.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.2478437500001,"end":649.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.3640937499999,"end":658.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.8815937500001,"end":666.3403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.5090937500001,"end":667.4709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.94346875,"end":679.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.89096875,"end":681.1397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.78096875,"end":681.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.30409375,"end":692.0747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.8003437500001,"end":693.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.81284375,"end":699.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.8203437500001,"end":711.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.37659375,"end":704.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.97471875,"end":713.7253437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.489,"end":26.409,"text":"請王世堅委員謝謝主席 我請金管會彭主委好 請彭主委"},{"start":34.684,"end":48.393,"text":"今天在這一年半來我們在立法院的相處我對你的質詢方面我想今天是最困難講的一個議題就是關於"},{"start":50.302,"end":76.991,"text":"我們金管會管轄的銀行局管轄的這37家公民銀行他們最近針對詐騙的部分他們很多都去設了AI的設備那麼就來針對警示戶的部分去強化那這其實在大方向是對的因為這幾年來"},{"start":79.195,"end":93.688,"text":"我們整個國家我們台灣受到詐騙可以說影響到幾乎我們全民身物痛極那受害的戶跟金額都這麼龐大"},{"start":95.902,"end":110.491,"text":"我看了這詐騙儀表板雖然我們在我就以這兩年來每一天4億元曾經降到一天大概2億 1億8左右現在啊"},{"start":111.691,"end":127.245,"text":"現在又回升了又大概在3億5到4億左右所以平均一年等於高達1000億以上那這個金額是龐大到幾乎是我們這個社會已經無法容忍"},{"start":128.996,"end":153.547,"text":"但是針對銀行的部分我們希望說他能夠加強對警事戶管理不要讓這些詐騙藉由銀行資金去流通這個方向是對的可是在執行了這一年以來那麼尤其銀行引入AI"},{"start":154.773,"end":182.181,"text":"那來對於警示戶來提前警示那現在有出了一些狀況比方說某大銀行啊他自己聲稱說他引進這個AI以後他們大量的這就排除了很多他們列為警示戶但是他自己宣稱他這樣子他的AI模型準確率"},{"start":183.701,"end":211.761,"text":"他認為高達50%欸 主委高達50%但是相對他的誤差率也有50%啊天啊 那被他錯殺的戶頭非常痛苦幾乎跟受詐騙的民眾一樣跟受害民眾一樣也是痛不欲生啊比方說這樣子對老人家"},{"start":213.724,"end":235.756,"text":"對於經濟弱勢者對於小兒存款戶對於零工經濟對於身障者對他們都生活上還有學生族群對他們都造成很大的影響所以這一個部分我認為我們應該要做一個"},{"start":239.528,"end":263.723,"text":"檢討了啦因為現在對AI帳戶的警示他們是說半年或者一年以上沒有交易或者戶頭裡面沒有達到銀行公告的應該要有的存款餘額這是小額的那銀行就認為這個有風險就把它剔除還有就是說如果你單日裡面交易比數多的話"},{"start":265.317,"end":280.69,"text":"這一些是他們的標準但是但是主委難道小兒存款戶他就沒有開戶的權利嗎他就沒有使用金融服務的權利嗎"},{"start":282.614,"end":306.083,"text":"所以我具體建議你們要針對現在已經高達我舉例喔我們在2022年的時候警示帳戶是6萬6千戶到今年年初這是根據我們金管會銀行局的報告裡面說到今年1月警示戶已經突破15萬戶但是但是"},{"start":310.58,"end":329.345,"text":"各種調查機構還有包括網路上做的一些調查大家估計啊其實這個無端捲入受害的民眾他戶頭被凍結戶頭被排除不能使用的高達兩百萬戶"},{"start":332.09,"end":359.297,"text":"這是民間的評估那以我們民意代表接到的接到的說這個戶頭他被凍結他是無辜的要去解凍的以我們接到的每天接到的量數來看我在想如果沒有達到200萬戶以上那至少數字是遠高於我們金管會所估計的15萬戶那我認為這樣"},{"start":362.045,"end":388.036,"text":"我跟他們說如果第一點要區分第一點如果是檢警調他們通報要警示這個絕對沒第二句話這個我們就依法依規那這個要等檢調去查這個可營資金來源那再去解除但是第二點對於我們銀行自己管理尤其透過"},{"start":389.697,"end":405.324,"text":"失誤率高達50%高達50%的誤判的這樣子的AI來警示的部分我們應該要區分啊要區分說這個高中低的風險"},{"start":407.225,"end":423.651,"text":"金額越小越低嘛還有是不是針對銀行自己過濾以後要去排除的要去做為警示戶的是不是比方說他要做到說第一個他要用簡訊通知這個戶頭啊"},{"start":426.381,"end":442.84,"text":"這位開戶人說我已經把你列為情侍了因為你達到我們銀行說的那幾項第二點 是不是在他交易之前交易的時候就要告知比方說有南部父母親"},{"start":445.434,"end":469.825,"text":"匯錢到北部小孩在北部讀書啊每個月匯5000塊生活費你不要等到匯進來的他要用的時候才發現說原來他也被列為省事務為什麼因為他小兒嘛他沒有達到銀行所謂的存款餘額沒有達到他們的標準那"},{"start":472.582,"end":487.624,"text":"錢匯進來才知道不能用這些都是銀行其實可以做到的他們能不能做到會不會去做就在乎我們金管會要不要對他們要求啦你的看法呢"},{"start":488.462,"end":503.551,"text":"我想剛才委員提到很多是非常非常好的建議就是我們現在也在做的第一個可能民眾搞不清楚這是到底是因為有人報案的警示帳戶還是銀行自己卡控我們會來做一個區分那再來就是說"},{"start":504.511,"end":532.486,"text":"那個準確率不高這件事情一定要改善因為否則的話我們的美意就剛好打折扣所以我的意思是說這部分我覺得該委員用分級分區然後通知事前比如說事後通知還有加速假設真的是比如說去解控要盡量的加快速度這個如果沒有問題的話當然精準是最重要的如果說精準做不到我想這些很多問題根源都來自於這裡"},{"start":533.782,"end":559.533,"text":"你剛講到這個很好 你說加速解控的部分 對好不容易 銀行局要求之下那這些銀行有去設他們還設這個叫24小時專線說你要是無辜被控 被列為情愫你可以用電話來解控可是 這樣子的服務我四個字形容形同虛設 為什麼"},{"start":561.374,"end":579.277,"text":"因為電話去啦談一談以後他結論還是要開戶者說你要到銀行來臨櫃辦理臨櫃辦理就算了喔有的還要求說你要到原開戶銀行哇天啊"},{"start":580.42,"end":599.887,"text":"這些對於就我剛剛講的老人家生長子還有學生族群甚至商班族群他也這個非常的困擾就對那有很多實質的例子啦比方說打零工維生的就光我這邊辦公室接貨的打零工維生的"},{"start":601.24,"end":618.155,"text":"他的戶頭金額不大但是有時候他會零星去存入幾筆存入都很小他一天打零工收一千八兩千塊他這樣子去存入這何錯之有這種也被控管也包括就是說"},{"start":620.845,"end":630.616,"text":"小兒金額多了以後那銀行就說我要看你的金流對這個金流要提出解釋我請問詐騙都那麼龐大的金額我們每一天2億5到4億被詐騙"},{"start":637.384,"end":666.987,"text":"有辦法分成那麼小筆嗎那要幾千個戶頭幾萬個戶頭才有辦法達成的所以偏偏去找這些小金額的麻煩這剛老師銀行啊藉由這一次大家對詐騙的厭惡結果讓他們去排除掉銀行厭惡的小額帳戶不是這樣嗎他覺得小額帳戶他管理麻煩他管理成本高啊所以"},{"start":668.488,"end":691.209,"text":"主委我提醒這句話不要變成黑臉的偷吃 白臉的抵仗我們台灣話講的 黑鳥偷家 白鳥找小這是不對的我們要幫警方檢警調一起防詐 打詐防止這些金融的交流 這是對的"},{"start":692.844,"end":713.215,"text":"但是要對真正詐騙者所以這個部分我希望你們對銀行對各銀行尤其現在有這些烏龍AI在幫助的這些銀行我希望你們能夠對他們加強查查跟管理好不好會 謝謝謝謝委員的指教 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165270","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165270","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe39c9b93d72c1209998abc180ec3481d02a983a90274432617ea2fa0b0c1a4ccb95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:00:15 - 11:12:12","影片長度":"00:11:57","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:00:15+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:12:12+08:00","duration":717,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.94409375,"end":17.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.63159375,"end":18.711593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.00221875,"end":22.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.67721875,"end":24.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.49534375,"end":30.000968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.43159375,"end":28.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.64221875,"end":30.945968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.840343750000002,"end":52.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.54596875,"end":53.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.65534375,"end":70.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.742843750000006,"end":62.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.18034375,"end":103.27221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.64659375000001,"end":83.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.05034375000001,"end":92.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.32284375,"end":126.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.05096875000001,"end":115.06784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.08471875000001,"end":115.48971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.95221875000001,"end":128.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.11221875,"end":132.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.53784375,"end":132.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.82034375,"end":166.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.14846875,"end":169.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.17784375000002,"end":172.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.20221875000001,"end":175.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.91096875000002,"end":175.63221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.63221875000002,"end":175.64909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.96971875,"end":193.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.02596875,"end":208.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.25284375,"end":201.31596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.30221875,"end":231.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.31909375,"end":208.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.69034375,"end":209.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.49159375000002,"end":211.84596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.95534375000003,"end":214.44471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.81159375000001,"end":215.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.91284375,"end":216.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.53909375,"end":259.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.22284375000004,"end":257.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.19721875,"end":259.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.46721875000003,"end":263.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.02346875,"end":289.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.41596875,"end":293.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.75721875,"end":296.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.40221875000003,"end":333.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.47659375,"end":335.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.89409375,"end":337.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.84721875,"end":339.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.88909375000003,"end":344.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.33159375,"end":357.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.57846875,"end":360.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.94971875000005,"end":358.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.04221875,"end":360.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.68346875000003,"end":360.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.97034375000004,"end":361.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.06721875,"end":364.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.41284375000004,"end":364.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.53096875,"end":364.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.59846875000005,"end":366.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.16346875000005,"end":372.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.94346875,"end":371.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.37346875000003,"end":374.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.60534375000003,"end":380.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.96721875000003,"end":415.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.37534375,"end":418.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.83034375000005,"end":421.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.24346875000003,"end":427.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.93534375,"end":423.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.17096875000004,"end":428.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.19596875,"end":430.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.56284375,"end":435.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.74409375000005,"end":432.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.08096875,"end":447.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.64471875000004,"end":464.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.76971875000004,"end":456.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.80346875000004,"end":456.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.87096875000003,"end":456.95534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.44346875,"end":473.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.60659375000006,"end":476.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.58096875,"end":477.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.94784375,"end":484.37721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.60909375000006,"end":486.87471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.44846875,"end":492.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.08471875000004,"end":500.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.43784375,"end":505.04909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.67346875000004,"end":513.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.6047187500001,"end":514.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.5747187500001,"end":522.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.83534375,"end":524.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.97034375,"end":523.3584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.1853437500001,"end":528.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.01596875,"end":528.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.4040937500001,"end":538.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.0872187500001,"end":531.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.01846875,"end":548.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.24471875,"end":549.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.1728437500001,"end":551.5734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.0290937500001,"end":557.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.04096875,"end":561.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.3953437499999,"end":557.9522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.97721875,"end":560.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.9853437500001,"end":568.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.9172187500001,"end":586.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.0547187500001,"end":577.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.50596875,"end":578.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.25159375,"end":587.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.5678437500001,"end":589.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.7365937500001,"end":588.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.39471875,"end":590.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.47034375,"end":595.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.2122187500001,"end":595.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.83659375,"end":597.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.1909687500001,"end":596.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.52409375,"end":603.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.98721875,"end":610.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.59784375,"end":618.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.15784375,"end":628.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.3715937500001,"end":638.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.9284687500001,"end":630.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.6147187500001,"end":640.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.52159375,"end":643.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.62659375,"end":643.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.66034375,"end":647.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.82846875,"end":653.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.4140937500001,"end":655.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.72596875,"end":657.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.51034375,"end":661.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.84346875,"end":665.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.5222187500001,"end":666.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.12096875,"end":669.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.8334687500001,"end":673.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.96846875,"end":670.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.87096875,"end":683.3334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.6709687500002,"end":707.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":707.5490937500001,"end":707.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.78534375,"end":709.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.89034375,"end":714.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.2947187500001,"end":716.9653437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":16.513,"text":"主席好 麻煩請次長好 有請鄭次長委員長"},{"start":23.508,"end":49.361,"text":"這樣 早 先問一下就是棒球迷比較滿關心的一個問題就是那個中國大陸那邊有一個臉書中國棒球城市聯賽臉書貼出來很多人發現說有一個上海中信隊然後就擔心說這跟台灣的中信兄弟有沒有關係嘛 對吧不是上海中信隊 我講錯了 上海兄弟隊那這個狀況你了解是怎樣"},{"start":52.748,"end":69.421,"text":"鮑委員中國信託還有中國中信娛樂公司已經發表聲明他們對這件事情沒有相關那如果說對岸持續抄襲他如果覺得商標有受到侵權他們會提出法律的行動這是他們的聲明"},{"start":70.963,"end":84.805,"text":"因為我從這個事情我發現一個很奇怪的事情就是當時那個中華職棒會長蔡其昌發臉書他說這個事情發生的時候他要轉達中信請他們向外說明感覺好像這都是"},{"start":85.686,"end":102.979,"text":"民間的事因為太極章是他雖然是立委但是他是用那個中華職棒應該是用會長的身份發這個文是如果是職棒會長他就是民間嘛是那運動部在這個中間都沒有角色大家都不會想到說這個事情來請運動部來求證一下或什麼的"},{"start":103.539,"end":118.57,"text":"報委員在一開始對岸有這樣子的一個網路上的訊息出現的時候我就跟蔡其昌會長也有做討論也有問過中信的集團娛樂公司其實我們都在掌握之中不過對岸要發展"},{"start":119.35,"end":143.622,"text":"那個棒球聯賽這件事情當然我們管不到對岸但是我們擔心的是我們的高端人才會不會因此而流失你有跟那個中信有連溝通有溝通 他們是說他們這部分他們不參與他們也沒有參與所以發了聲明只是對啊 那蔡吉昌這樣發文我感覺好像我們台灣沒有運動部一樣但是你講的訊息跟後面有一些新聞發展有點矛盾我們來看一下你看"},{"start":144.682,"end":172.452,"text":"本來確實如你所說啦就是中信娛樂公司說他們不知情而且如果侵權會採取必要措施那是11月5號是但11月6號的時候啊你看新聞報導陸委會了解啊背後運籌帷幄的是一家經常和台灣職棒聯盟和棒協合作的一家運動行銷公司那陸委會又有這樣的消息包委員那是我們提供給陸委會的你們提供給陸委會是所以是這一個運動行銷公司的角色是什麼"},{"start":173.954,"end":193.52,"text":"他跟中信的關係是什麼我們沒有任何證據顯示他跟中信有關係但是他就像台商的模式他們到中國大陸要去發展尋求商業的商機這部分我們沒有辦法去阻擋他但是他如果有一些違反兩岸人民關係條例的惡意挖角當然陸委會就會介入"},{"start":194.082,"end":207.656,"text":"所以這看起來是這家運動行銷公司他想要去發展所以他可能一個提案是不是就把台灣的一些職棒的商標或什麼提供給對岸對岸那在還沒有確定情況之下為什麼會PO出來"},{"start":208.362,"end":231.378,"text":"報告委員我在行政院記者會議的時候提到他整個過程非常的粗糙都在放風聲的感覺到現在其實網路上也看到網友有實際上去那家公司的地址去看結果也沒有那家公司的存在也沒有上海兄弟的公司的存在就像空殼子未來會怎麼樣的他們怎麼樣的籌備我們都還在觀察當中"},{"start":231.598,"end":258.59,"text":"OK 好接下來問一下足球啦是足球的問題那這是10月15號台灣因為去參加2027年亞洲盃的會內賽然後結果就輸了嘛就沒有資格參加亞洲盃但是這過程當中中華足協就被爆很多項疏失所以隊長也批評說這叫台灣人欺負台灣人他台灣人的意思應該是指足協吧是不是足協欺負台灣人是"},{"start":259.75,"end":262.696,"text":"然後很扯的是你可以看到右邊那個照片"},{"start":264.887,"end":292.685,"text":"觀眾球迷在看比賽的時候居然跳出這個89比10這樣一個畫面很多人都以為說居然輸這麼多居然輸到89分後來原來是烏龍一場原來是那個足協他在比賽過程當中操作PPT然後還把他投影在畫面上面虛驚一場這個真的非常扯啦好 這是第一件很誇張的事情等一下我們再一起來講第二個是"},{"start":293.837,"end":322.092,"text":"另外我們的五人制這個是十一人制的球隊然後我們五人制足球也發生一件也是蠻扯的事情10月16號新聞他們要去沙烏地阿拉伯參加亞洲盃的資格賽結果遇到簽證延誤結果折騰了半天然後才上飛機這簡直不可思議運動部又再要求足協交檢討報告然後我們接下來看"},{"start":323.132,"end":332.975,"text":"那他的檢討報告後來足協交出來了是什麼時候交出來的呢是10月17號就交出來了我們這個看下一頁看下一頁10月17號下一頁"},{"start":341.239,"end":366.77,"text":"這是10月17號中華民國足球協會的檢討報告有檢討兩件事情第一個就是我剛剛講的亞洲盃的資格問題另外一個是無人制去沙烏地阿拉伯的簽證問題結果這個足協報告市長想必一定看過嗎報告沒有因為不是我督導的所以你沒有看過對那是誰督導洪志昌常務市長所以你對於這個事情是完全不了解"},{"start":367.582,"end":379.973,"text":"呃 我略知一二 請委員可以提問我來 我試試看啊 我經濟師長也在這邊好 那 我們來看喔其實從這個檢討報告裡面我覺得有幾件事情蠻奇怪的第一個"},{"start":381.813,"end":403.211,"text":"簽證有那麼趕嗎?其實實際上沙烏利阿拉伯的主協在9月9號的晚上就已經提供簽證辦理的表格了所以這個表格拿到之後就可以立刻辦理當然中間需要時間但是其實時間應該是蠻充裕的然後結果我們看到大概什麼時候我們的主協才寄出所有的簽證資訊呢?是在10月2號"},{"start":404.372,"end":429.926,"text":"10月2號才寄出去中間大概隔了三個多禮拜才寄出去那你10月2號寄出去中間又說什麼對方不回啊如何如何如何搞到15號來不及實際上我是不知道為什麼收集這個簽證要這麼久市長你以前戴過竹鞋嗎包委員我戴過竹鞋但是我當時因為任期太短沒有處理這些簽證的事情那請問一下他這樣子合理嗎"},{"start":430.632,"end":457.052,"text":"看起來有兩個問題一個是可能教練團在提供給沙烏地阿拉伯這邊的團員選手的名冊太晚繳交第二個可能是沙烏地阿拉伯當地他們的足協在處理這個簽證的部分可能也有拖延我先不管沙烏地阿拉伯我現在就講我們寄出去的時間需要拖這麼久嗎當然你會預設沙烏地阿拉伯可能會拖那我們這邊動作就要快一點怎麼會"},{"start":457.853,"end":484.211,"text":"拖到上不了飛機差點上不了飛機這很離譜啦是然後再來喔我們再來看喔有關於剛剛講的那個十一人制的亞洲杯的會內賽喔我們的球員喔你看喔我們球員接不到場地我們球員接不到場地沒有辦法練習啊原因是什麼原因是因為泰國隊在本次賽事開始前三個月已經把場地租走了"},{"start":485.643,"end":514.745,"text":"然後所以我們借不到我們自己的球員借不到本國的場地被外國人借走因為人家三個月前就借了然後我們這個十月中的比賽呢足協是八月才通過由黃澤民擔任總教練那拼總教練的時間也很慢那你說那總教練比較晚產生那我們借場地總是可以早點借吧也沒有那這個部分這個市長你覺得呢"},{"start":516.618,"end":538.118,"text":"包委員這部分我想就是反映出足協內部的行政他的能力不足所以他總辭了我足協是剛成立是不是也不是那個次長你以前是體育署的署長體育署的署長居然可以讓足協說能力不足然後發生這麼多奇怪的事情"},{"start":539.13,"end":555.003,"text":"然後現在你當市長之後你說那不是我督導的所以我就沒辦法很具體回答那足協以前都歸你管在運動部升格之前所以我們的公家機關不管是體育署或運動部都是任由單項協會隨便弄"},{"start":557.25,"end":572.999,"text":"然後發生問題之後再說那是他的問題那你們的督導跟監督責任在哪裡我們也不可能派一個人直接進駐租協嘛不是啦 那你自己去想辦法嘛你自己想辦法嘛因為單項協會為什麼會成立單項協會是台灣有特殊性嘛是"},{"start":573.399,"end":594.716,"text":"那但重點誰掌握資源運動部啊誰有權利運動部啊國人會希望誰把運動賽事搞好運動部啊結果你們說那都足協的事跟我都沒有關係我覺得你這樣子回答國人無法接受國人無法接受這樣的態度啦足協只要發生任何問題都是運動部的事啊你不能講說喔他就很爛啊"},{"start":595.959,"end":617.544,"text":"你好像路人甲一樣我們在國際賽事有墊檢核表但這部分的確是我們在檢核表上面不夠細緻這部分我們有些改善然後再來還有一個這個也是有人經費的問題說國家的足球代表隊第一個他有什麼確實疏漏一名球員的註冊就居然還有疏漏球員的註冊"},{"start":619.215,"end":642.909,"text":"這真的是太低級錯誤了吧然後第二個球員有提及零用金一天只有1000塊所以我們的國家代表隊球員他零用金一天是1000塊包委員這個標準是怎麼定的如果他本身零有外面的球隊的薪水那臨時的集訓每日的零用金是400元那600元是足球協會自籌所以就是1000嘛 沒錯嘛那膳食費又是另外的所以這個是零用金1000嘛"},{"start":644.189,"end":653.833,"text":"我們國家提供400,600是足球協會提供但是有另外一個五人制的五人制的他講說他只有拿到400塊就是我們國家給的,足協沒給他足協沒給他,那足協應該要給嗎?"},{"start":658.864,"end":688.133,"text":"這個是看協會看協會那你覺得足協應該要給嗎國家給 足協應該不是盈利事業應該要一致啦足協應該是政府補助給他的預算吧是他當然有自籌款他很大比例是自籌款但是他應該要一致好啦 我覺得市長其實之前你在當署長的時候你也有來這邊詢問過啦常常問到足協問題或體育的問題你常常都會一副事不關己的樣子啦那現在運動部升格代表國人對運動部的期待比較高啦否則不用升格了"},{"start":688.573,"end":713.905,"text":"那如果官員還是用這種態度就是那協會發生事情他不對把它換掉或我覺得大家沒辦法接受新的部新的氣象大家會希望說運動部做好督導的責任那未來所有的協會發生的問題當然都是運動部的責任沒有辦法切割啦希望次長可以拿出肩膀出來好嗎好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝葉委員 指委員"}]}},{"id":"165269","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165269","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe398b00ebf397a5d6557c737e12387eef8a983a902744326174a35e1cf326b66635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"10:59:11 - 11:09:39","影片長度":"00:10:28","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T10:59:11+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:09:39+08:00","duration":628,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.32971875,"end":10.341593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.797218750000003,"end":11.134718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.35409375,"end":31.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.329718750000005,"end":33.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.52346875,"end":36.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.712843750000005,"end":37.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.21909375,"end":80.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.82846875,"end":119.43846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.72534375000001,"end":121.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.27346875,"end":124.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.68659375000001,"end":130.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.94284375,"end":136.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.32596875000002,"end":153.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.93096875,"end":158.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.25096875,"end":163.06034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.75221875,"end":176.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.01596875,"end":178.58534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.87221875,"end":182.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.08659375000002,"end":188.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.27221875,"end":184.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.82409375,"end":211.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.22159375,"end":221.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.69659375,"end":234.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.61034375000003,"end":240.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.65159375000002,"end":269.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.78846875000002,"end":256.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.28409375,"end":279.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.70034375,"end":279.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.73409375,"end":297.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.29659375,"end":300.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.43971875,"end":317.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.73659375,"end":318.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.33971875000003,"end":352.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.17409375,"end":353.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.17409375,"end":371.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.71534375000005,"end":373.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.32284375,"end":374.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.33971875000003,"end":374.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.14096875,"end":381.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.54096875000005,"end":459.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.89534375000005,"end":382.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.02909375,"end":390.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.38534375,"end":405.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.02784375000005,"end":452.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.02659375,"end":467.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.43034375,"end":468.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.97034375000004,"end":469.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.78034375000004,"end":469.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.26971875000004,"end":483.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.61784375,"end":500.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.06659375000004,"end":532.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.07034375,"end":504.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.38659375000003,"end":505.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.80346875000004,"end":511.30971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.90034375000005,"end":511.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.1459687500001,"end":537.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.6140937499999,"end":535.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.74846875,"end":542.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.4397187500001,"end":546.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.2703437499999,"end":568.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.3303437500001,"end":622.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.7522187500001,"end":625.7390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.38909375,"end":626.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.03846875,"end":627.6459687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.956,"end":33.732,"text":"非常謝謝這個剛剛莊昭偉的一席話這個是非常這個睿智而且很中肯的一句話一段話那麼確實我們現在詐騙的問題這個不僅僅只是行政部門然後立法部門我們這邊也都散盡職責然後提高相關的這個刑度但是可能另外一個部分還有司法所以我接下來我就要請司法院的王富密"},{"start":34.514,"end":36.056,"text":"請王復命那麼剛剛不同的委員可能從不同的角度來看為什麼我們現在詐騙的問題這麼猖獗這麼多年來沒有改善那本席今天主要就是從司法法院的角度來看這個詐騙的問題那麼我們知道其實詐騙案件層出不窮"},{"start":58.058,"end":79.993,"text":"不管是從假投資假檢警然後甚至到最近的跨國的這個詐騙集團都已經嚴重侵蝕民眾的財產安全和政府的公信力行政部門雖然成立了打炸國家隊但是看起來功效不彰那麼我想這個部分的話其實還有一個問題就是說大家普遍看到我們現在的法院判決侵犯"},{"start":81.334,"end":108.709,"text":"侵犯呢其實也可能會成為整體打詐機制的最大破口那麼根據審計部在今年所公布的113年中央政府總預算的決算審核報告裡面就指出政府為了打擊組織及科技詐騙增修了刑法第339條之4的加重詐欺罪可以科處一年到七年的有期徒刑可是"},{"start":109.409,"end":136.187,"text":"看看這6年來 從108年到113年度各級法院對於加重詐欺罪科處3年以上的徒刑根本不到1%如果說有處罰科處5年以上的徒刑也不過才佔0.01%這個比例是非常非常低那麼如果說我們再看"},{"start":137.389,"end":162.091,"text":"整個的平均來講大概都是維持大概差不多就是一年到六年之間大概平均大概是1.6年1年半左右如果說要科處平均刑度大概就是一年半左右那麼就這樣的一個狀況我想很多的民眾是不滿的為什麼我們的詐騙案件法院判得這麼輕"},{"start":163.823,"end":186.699,"text":"就算是立法者把刑度提高但是法官還是輕輕的縱判所以這樣子的一個情況我想請教王副秘書長你們法院的法官是怎麼看待詐騙案件為什麼就整體的統計數據來講會如此輕判"},{"start":190.021,"end":212.114,"text":"跟委員報告其實那個法院就那個詐欺這部分的那個量刑這幾年就是有呈現那個加重就是有判更重的那個趨勢那我們從統計數字來看的話339之4這個加重詐欺也就大部分是在這個詐欺集團的就是判處那個兩年以上的這個比例已經從108年的1.68%到113年的7.08%了"},{"start":218.417,"end":245.487,"text":"那修法之後的那個詐欺詐欺危害防治條例43條跟44條呢現在就是我們統計到現在就是有那個判決的141罪呢超過兩年的有達到21%就是目前就是我們一直宣達結果現在是有成那個就是加重那個取向是這樣我們有看到這個我們本身有去查你們自己有一個"},{"start":246.948,"end":269.401,"text":"這個詐欺案件的量刑因子的一個查詢系統我們去查詢了114年的這個查詢系統這是你們自己的數字喔你們看你們在這個14年大概就是被判的有期徒刑一年的大概171件然後平均刑度在2387件裡面平均刑度也才一年"},{"start":270.522,"end":297.251,"text":"一年5.7個月就等於說只有一年半平均刑度一年半真正判到最高六年以上的也只有兩件所以呢基本上就是你們在有不管我們現在把刑度提高可是你們事實上在整個的司法院的法官的這個作業系統裡面而且在你們自己也有頒布了這個刑法339條之四家中詐欺案件良心參考事項"},{"start":298.371,"end":318.151,"text":"那麼看起來好像這個事項這個算是一個行政命令對於你們自己的法官是沒有任何拘束力的嗎沒有辦法就去約束現在法官的良心還是說法官基本上不會參考你們現在所頒布的這個參考事項的準則來去做良心那個"},{"start":319.403,"end":326.668,"text":"委員講得沒有錯 委員有注意到司法院有訂了一個量刑 加重詐欺的量刑參考事項我們也廣為宣達 發給法官 請他們宣達在法官學院也開了各種的研習"},{"start":338.576,"end":356.756,"text":"那不管是在一般刑法的或者說那個詐欺這個部分或者說量刑的就是的課程裡面呢也都有去就是廣為去宣達跟那個法官們溝通這個部分他就是要量刑考慮事項啊是還有另外一個部分呢因為現在我們法律規定是說可以"},{"start":357.296,"end":370.955,"text":"對於這個家中詐欺案件是可以有期徒刑 得病科罰金你們支持未來有期徒刑可以因病科罰金就是不只是判刑還要判罰金這樣的話會不會更能夠有效的遏止詐欺犯你們會支持這樣子的一個修法嗎"},{"start":376.872,"end":394.34,"text":"這個實體法部分因為主責機關是那個法務部那所以我們尊重他們的權責好OK那我想這個部分話我本期之後也會來再研議看看是不是要再進行相關的修法那麼總之就是說其實這個詐騙的這個詐欺的案子基本上良心過低"},{"start":395.04,"end":398.562,"text":"基本上是從統計數據上面來看這就是個不真的事實那麼如何能夠就是說強化法官在對於這樣子的詐欺案件裡面的這個他可能他的違法性還對被害人所造成傷害讓他們更能夠體會那麼也許在良心的部分的話就會有一個更能夠符合我們社會期待的一個"},{"start":418.954,"end":429.347,"text":"一個判刑喔那麼所以在現在的這個狀況就是你們現在的整個刑事法律的法定刑度過低或者是法官良心過低的問題那麼本席認為說司法院其實應該要再去通盤"},{"start":435.154,"end":459.389,"text":"檢討 那麼是不是有出現法官良心過低的問題當然不僅是在詐欺案件在一些案件裡面可能也都呈現有良心過低的問題因為你們先前司法院其實也頒布了很多各種不同的良心參考表刑事案件的良心以及定執行的參考要點可是到底有沒有實際的效果還是都是只是參考而已"},{"start":460.109,"end":466.759,"text":"就是你們實際上是怎麼樣向法官們去做宣達那告訴他們或是你們有召開過很多類似的座談會嗎"},{"start":468.616,"end":492.943,"text":"這一部分都有的那但是要跟委員報告就是說因為那個最後量刑的時候他依刑法57條他最後那個設計他最後還是要那個法官做那個裁量所以說這一些那個因子呢他事實上都是整個綜合的就是他沒有辦法去定一個就是一個相對應的什麼情況他一定要多少因為每個個案他的情況實在是"},{"start":493.483,"end":512.105,"text":"太不同了所以也沒有辦法就是去定一個實質的一個就是所謂那個有拘束的是我想因為王鳳鳴您本身也是刑庭法官出身那麼我想就是整個的刑事的判決基本上還是要符合國民的法律情感那在這個部分的話怎麼樣能夠加強跟"},{"start":513.767,"end":536.965,"text":"性情的法官 做更多的社會的溝通讓他們能夠理解國民的期待還有跟立法這邊當時的一些修法的想法還有另外一個部分就是司法院其實在幾年前曾經有提出一份草案叫做刑事案件妥適良刑法的草案後來這個案子為什麼司法院沒有再繼續推動下去"},{"start":538.914,"end":567.395,"text":"是你們認為說你們對於這個妥適量刑是沒有辦法做出來嗎我請陳本法官說報告委員那刑事妥適量刑法因為上次之前送的時候因為借期不連續的關係所以目前我們就還在那個司法院這邊在做內部評估當中因為這涉及到我們量刑的模式到底是要採說所謂的蘇格蘭或是美國這種祭典式的方式那拘束力的強弱這些那這部分我們還在內部在討論這樣子"},{"start":568.396,"end":588.213,"text":"是因為本心也認為說這樣子的法案還是值得拿出來再來討論畢竟如果說我們能夠制定一個比較客觀合理而且這個大家都能接受的一個良心標準的話那麼未來也可以相當程度的拘束一些太自由派的法官那不可否認在我們法律人裡面的確是有一些"},{"start":590.335,"end":615.951,"text":"這個法官可能他就是更重視的是人身的自由啊等等然後對於很多的案子他會侵犯那但是這個這樣子的一個狀況其實很打擊減緊掉的士氣而且也違背國民的法律情感那所以本席是建議了就是你們行事案件妥適良刑法草案可以再拿出來好不好就是積極的可以再提出來然後你們的"},{"start":617.237,"end":625.647,"text":"這個相關的草案然後可以作為你們下個會期的司法院的立法計畫好謝謝委員提示好OK那以上謝謝好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"17024","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17024","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea456f1a8eac090e911268330e54312a5f914d0d15f34b2c0267dc2be13ff7c5e65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2025-11-12","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2025-11-12T08:34:51+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:02:00+08:00","duration":12429,"影片長度":"03:27:09","委員發言時間":"08:34:51 - 12:02:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1841.68409375,"end":1842.4434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1842.5953437500002,"end":1842.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1842.66284375,"end":1842.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1842.9665937500001,"end":1843.0340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1843.0340937500002,"end":1843.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1845.7847187500001,"end":1848.2315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1849.1934687500002,"end":1849.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1849.7165937500001,"end":1849.8009687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1849.9359687500003,"end":1852.1972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1853.4122187500002,"end":1857.1922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1857.7997187500002,"end":1868.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1868.81909375,"end":1874.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1874.7590937500001,"end":1879.4334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1879.7203437500002,"end":1889.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1889.4572187500003,"end":1896.6122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1896.8653437500002,"end":1910.2303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1913.25096875,"end":1916.8959687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1918.8197187500002,"end":1925.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1926.3122187500003,"end":1934.1759687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1936.03221875,"end":1938.7490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1943.4403437500002,"end":1946.8322187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1950.3253437500002,"end":1951.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1954.9322187500002,"end":1958.3240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1961.1590937500002,"end":1961.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1962.6609687500002,"end":1968.7697187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1970.06909375,"end":1972.6340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1970.20409375,"end":1970.5753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1981.9153437500001,"end":1986.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1996.1240937500002,"end":1999.9547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2000.02221875,"end":2016.6609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2016.89721875,"end":2022.6347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2023.7653437500003,"end":2024.8622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2025.4022187500002,"end":2035.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2035.3922187500002,"end":2053.3809687499997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2053.93784375,"end":2068.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2068.6697187500004,"end":2106.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2107.11096875,"end":2107.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2108.17409375,"end":2143.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2144.3034687500003,"end":2154.2428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2154.64784375,"end":2161.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2162.52846875,"end":2180.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2180.93909375,"end":2182.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2183.33534375,"end":2186.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2186.7947187500004,"end":2190.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2191.90784375,"end":2196.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2197.32471875,"end":2198.6072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2198.99534375,"end":2202.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2202.45471875,"end":2216.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2217.32159375,"end":2225.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2225.94471875,"end":2233.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2233.5047187500004,"end":2240.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2240.6090937500003,"end":2244.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2244.1190937500005,"end":2244.1697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2244.25409375,"end":2249.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2250.29534375,"end":2258.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2258.61471875,"end":2262.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2263.0865937500002,"end":2281.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2282.00346875,"end":2291.7403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2291.9765937500006,"end":2295.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2295.9590937500006,"end":2303.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2304.17721875,"end":2311.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2311.75409375,"end":2319.5840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2319.90471875,"end":2330.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2330.9747187500006,"end":2338.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2338.6865937500006,"end":2385.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2386.30784375,"end":2425.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2425.3903437500003,"end":2439.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2439.95346875,"end":2451.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2451.76596875,"end":2455.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2455.2928437500004,"end":2458.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2458.63409375,"end":2459.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2460.38909375,"end":2461.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2461.3678437500002,"end":2464.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2464.25346875,"end":2470.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2470.2947187500004,"end":2474.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2474.4459687500002,"end":2480.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2481.31409375,"end":2484.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2485.14471875,"end":2496.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2496.9909687500003,"end":2497.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2497.88534375,"end":2503.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2504.14596875,"end":2504.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2504.85471875,"end":2506.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2507.1159687500003,"end":2515.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2515.35096875,"end":2535.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2535.85409375,"end":2538.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2538.43596875,"end":2543.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2543.85284375,"end":2545.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2545.96221875,"end":2553.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2554.02846875,"end":2555.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2556.08721875,"end":2561.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2562.1453437500004,"end":2563.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2563.7147187500004,"end":2568.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2568.64221875,"end":2572.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2572.9959687500004,"end":2575.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2575.9490937500004,"end":2576.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2576.65784375,"end":2577.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2577.73784375,"end":2578.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2578.76721875,"end":2580.2184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2580.7584687500002,"end":2583.2897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2583.55971875,"end":2586.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2586.93471875,"end":2593.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2593.6003437500003,"end":2594.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2594.59596875,"end":2597.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2597.38034375,"end":2600.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2600.63721875,"end":2601.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2601.6834687500004,"end":2603.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2603.9784687500005,"end":2604.3497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2604.55221875,"end":2608.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2608.88909375,"end":2610.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2611.28534375,"end":2614.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2614.42409375,"end":2617.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2618.33909375,"end":2624.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2624.61659375,"end":2626.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2627.08034375,"end":2627.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2628.0759687500004,"end":2628.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2629.6453437500004,"end":2631.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2632.3115937500006,"end":2635.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2635.82159375,"end":2639.2472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2639.6522187500004,"end":2640.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2640.58034375,"end":2645.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2645.71034375,"end":2646.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2646.79034375,"end":2648.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2649.3047187500006,"end":2654.4178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2654.7890937500006,"end":2658.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2658.5859687500006,"end":2660.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2660.4590937500006,"end":2661.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2661.5390937500006,"end":2663.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2663.9353437500004,"end":2671.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2672.33909375,"end":2675.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2675.9334687500004,"end":2677.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2677.3678437500002,"end":2678.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2678.32971875,"end":2680.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2681.51909375,"end":2682.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2683.18971875,"end":2683.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2683.81409375,"end":2689.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2690.14221875,"end":2690.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2690.54721875,"end":2691.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2691.7284687500005,"end":2693.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2694.4453437500006,"end":2695.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2696.1834687500004,"end":2697.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2697.8034687500003,"end":2700.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2701.0772187500006,"end":2701.6847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2702.05596875,"end":2705.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2705.5997187500006,"end":2709.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2709.9365937500006,"end":2711.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2711.4384687500005,"end":2713.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2713.0753437500007,"end":2714.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2714.30721875,"end":2715.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2716.1803437500002,"end":2716.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2716.9903437500006,"end":2719.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2720.12909375,"end":2722.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2722.30596875,"end":2725.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2725.44471875,"end":2725.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2726.59221875,"end":2729.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2729.9503437500007,"end":2731.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2731.6209687500004,"end":2732.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2732.68409375,"end":2735.4178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2736.0253437500005,"end":2736.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2736.71721875,"end":2738.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2738.9615937500002,"end":2740.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2741.1384687500004,"end":2742.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2742.85971875,"end":2749.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2749.42409375,"end":2757.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2757.81096875,"end":2759.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2759.4815937500007,"end":2760.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2760.5447187500004,"end":2763.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2763.41346875,"end":2766.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2766.72096875,"end":2769.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2770.11284375,"end":2772.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2773.58909375,"end":2775.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2775.3103437500004,"end":2777.7234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2778.0947187500005,"end":2780.9972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2781.1659687500005,"end":2784.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2784.81096875,"end":2791.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2791.5440937500007,"end":2794.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2794.56471875,"end":2798.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2799.2390937500004,"end":2799.6778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2800.0322187500005,"end":2803.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2803.5084687500002,"end":2814.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2814.51096875,"end":2819.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2820.5859687500006,"end":2821.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2821.98659375,"end":2825.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2825.68221875,"end":2828.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2829.15846875,"end":2830.0528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2830.4072187500005,"end":2831.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2831.57159375,"end":2833.6640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2833.93409375,"end":2834.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2835.06471875,"end":2835.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2835.8240937500004,"end":2836.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2837.19096875,"end":2837.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2839.0303437500006,"end":2841.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2842.06784375,"end":2843.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2844.2784687500007,"end":2846.0840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2846.4215937500003,"end":2848.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2848.9697187500005,"end":2852.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2852.9522187500006,"end":2854.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2854.8084687500004,"end":2857.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2858.1834687500004,"end":2859.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2859.73596875,"end":2862.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2862.85784375,"end":2863.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2863.87034375,"end":2865.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2865.67596875,"end":2866.4522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2868.9159687500005,"end":2871.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2871.97034375,"end":2872.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2872.32471875,"end":2874.6365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2893.95846875,"end":2894.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2895.4434687500006,"end":2897.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2897.8903437500003,"end":2900.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2901.0290937500004,"end":2902.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2903.1384687500004,"end":2904.5897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2905.0284687500007,"end":2907.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2907.10409375,"end":2907.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2908.4034687500007,"end":2908.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2909.55096875,"end":2910.8672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2911.1709687500006,"end":2912.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2914.25909375,"end":2916.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2918.3259687500004,"end":2919.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2920.53659375,"end":2922.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2924.6709687500006,"end":2925.9197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2927.1347187500005,"end":2930.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2931.6065937500007,"end":2932.1972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2933.4122187500006,"end":2934.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2934.8465937500005,"end":2935.8590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2936.2978437500005,"end":2937.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2937.6815937500005,"end":2939.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2939.26784375,"end":2940.6853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2941.0397187500002,"end":2945.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2945.9503437500007,"end":2947.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2947.8740937500006,"end":2948.9372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2949.0722187500005,"end":2950.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2950.37159375,"end":2951.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2952.22784375,"end":2953.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2953.86471875,"end":2955.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2956.5478437500005,"end":2957.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2958.50534375,"end":2959.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2960.05784375,"end":2962.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2962.48784375,"end":2963.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2963.50034375,"end":2964.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2965.2722187500003,"end":2965.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2966.03159375,"end":2966.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2966.8584687500006,"end":2968.2928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2968.5965937500005,"end":2970.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2970.80721875,"end":2972.7647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2974.41846875,"end":2975.5828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2976.17346875,"end":2977.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2978.6034687500005,"end":2981.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2982.18096875,"end":2983.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2983.68284375,"end":2985.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2986.34909375,"end":2988.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2991.3778437500005,"end":2994.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2995.1747187500005,"end":2996.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2998.4315937500005,"end":3000.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3001.23284375,"end":3002.8865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3003.2409687500003,"end":3005.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3006.7340937500003,"end":3008.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3010.15971875,"end":3011.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3011.30721875,"end":3012.1847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3012.69096875,"end":3013.6190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3014.54721875,"end":3016.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3017.19659375,"end":3019.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3019.74471875,"end":3020.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3021.0272187500004,"end":3021.5840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3022.44471875,"end":3023.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3023.8622187500005,"end":3024.6553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3025.21221875,"end":3026.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3027.67596875,"end":3029.1609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3030.94971875,"end":3031.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3032.62034375,"end":3033.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3033.54846875,"end":3034.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3035.94471875,"end":3037.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3037.5984687500004,"end":3037.9190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3038.84721875,"end":3043.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3043.7409687500003,"end":3044.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3045.41159375,"end":3046.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3047.92596875,"end":3049.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3049.93409375,"end":3051.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3053.9503437500007,"end":3063.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3064.2947187500004,"end":3065.8640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3066.80909375,"end":3069.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3070.79159375,"end":3071.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3072.0234687500006,"end":3074.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3074.8415937500004,"end":3078.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3081.4734687500004,"end":3083.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3084.27471875,"end":3092.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3092.9147187500002,"end":3094.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3095.49659375,"end":3096.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3097.7578437500006,"end":3099.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3099.83346875,"end":3100.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3101.1159687500003,"end":3102.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3102.2634687500004,"end":3103.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3104.3897187500006,"end":3105.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3106.22909375,"end":3107.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3109.3172187500004,"end":3110.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3111.5615937500006,"end":3113.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3113.8903437500003,"end":3114.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3115.2234687500004,"end":3116.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3118.2272187500002,"end":3118.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3119.47596875,"end":3129.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3130.32659375,"end":3131.3897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3131.54159375,"end":3139.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3132.8409687500007,"end":3132.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3132.92534375,"end":3132.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3132.9422187500004,"end":3133.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3137.8359687500006,"end":3138.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3147.50534375,"end":3151.5047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3151.65659375,"end":3153.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3154.20471875,"end":3154.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3155.3184687500006,"end":3156.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3157.56284375,"end":3158.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3158.9803437500004,"end":3160.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3160.88721875,"end":3162.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3163.0134687500004,"end":3165.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3165.5615937500006,"end":3167.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3167.6034687500005,"end":3168.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3169.4597187500003,"end":3171.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3171.5690937500003,"end":3172.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3173.0372187500006,"end":3173.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3173.9822187500004,"end":3176.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3176.90159375,"end":3177.9815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3178.4034687500007,"end":3186.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3186.8915937500005,"end":3191.2284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3192.0215937500006,"end":3192.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3193.91159375,"end":3196.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3197.03346875,"end":3197.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3198.5859687500006,"end":3200.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3201.85971875,"end":3202.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3202.51784375,"end":3204.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3204.5428437500004,"end":3205.9940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3206.38221875,"end":3207.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3208.30596875,"end":3210.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3210.7528437500005,"end":3212.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3212.84534375,"end":3213.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3214.11096875,"end":3216.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3216.4734687500004,"end":3218.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3218.6334687500002,"end":3220.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3221.3503437500003,"end":3223.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3223.74659375,"end":3224.4890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3224.70846875,"end":3226.1934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3226.4803437500004,"end":3228.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3228.92721875,"end":3232.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3232.8759687500005,"end":3235.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3235.91346875,"end":3238.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3239.0184687500005,"end":3239.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3239.9297187500006,"end":3241.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3241.88721875,"end":3244.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3244.95846875,"end":3245.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3245.7853437500007,"end":3248.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3248.5865937500002,"end":3250.5440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3251.4215937500003,"end":3252.4678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3253.34534375,"end":3254.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3255.45471875,"end":3256.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3257.31096875,"end":3260.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3260.5509687500007,"end":3262.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3262.67721875,"end":3264.4659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3265.0059687500006,"end":3266.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3266.3728437500004,"end":3267.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3268.1447187500007,"end":3269.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3270.8278437500003,"end":3271.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3272.6334687500002,"end":3275.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3275.6709687500006,"end":3276.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3277.3415937500004,"end":3277.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3278.1347187500005,"end":3280.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3281.1384687500004,"end":3283.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3283.7372187500005,"end":3285.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3285.15471875,"end":3287.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3288.2090937500006,"end":3290.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3291.53346875,"end":3293.2715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3293.9972187500007,"end":3294.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3294.9928437500002,"end":3296.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3297.50721875,"end":3299.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3299.80221875,"end":3302.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3304.25721875,"end":3307.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3307.9697187500005,"end":3308.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3309.3028437500006,"end":3314.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3315.41159375,"end":3316.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3316.62659375,"end":3318.6178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3318.7528437500005,"end":3319.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3320.1534687500007,"end":3324.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3324.7772187500004,"end":3338.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3338.66534375,"end":3340.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3340.90971875,"end":3342.6815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3343.18784375,"end":3345.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3345.65159375,"end":3348.3347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3348.8240937500004,"end":3349.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3350.07284375,"end":3351.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3351.50721875,"end":3357.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3358.0378437500003,"end":3359.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3361.0584687500004,"end":3361.3790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3361.8515937500006,"end":3364.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3364.9228437500005,"end":3366.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3367.3359687500006,"end":3370.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3370.96409375,"end":3372.4997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3372.65159375,"end":3374.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3375.0984687500004,"end":3376.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3376.4822187500004,"end":3377.7647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3377.96721875,"end":3380.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3381.0215937500006,"end":3385.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3386.03346875,"end":3387.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3387.9572187500007,"end":3388.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3389.35784375,"end":3390.0665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3390.2859687500004,"end":3391.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3391.5009687500005,"end":3392.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3392.7665937500005,"end":3393.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3394.30221875,"end":3394.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3395.26409375,"end":3396.7322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3397.25534375,"end":3399.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3400.0397187500002,"end":3400.7315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3401.54159375,"end":3403.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3404.1403437500003,"end":3408.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3409.13534375,"end":3410.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3411.3122187500003,"end":3413.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3413.9784687500005,"end":3415.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3415.76721875,"end":3418.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3418.77096875,"end":3422.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3422.85471875,"end":3426.2634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3426.5165937500005,"end":3428.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3428.40659375,"end":3429.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3429.7228437500007,"end":3431.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3431.96721875,"end":3433.9922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3434.54909375,"end":3435.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3436.3378437500005,"end":3436.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3437.1309687500006,"end":3438.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3438.8690937500005,"end":3441.0459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3441.4003437500005,"end":3442.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3443.2565937500003,"end":3445.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3446.4122187500006,"end":3448.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3448.1503437500005,"end":3449.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3449.73659375,"end":3451.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3451.91346875,"end":3456.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3456.5372187500006,"end":3457.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3457.9040937500004,"end":3468.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3469.32846875,"end":3470.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3470.7628437500007,"end":3474.8634687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3475.42034375,"end":3478.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3479.3015937500004,"end":3481.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3481.8497187500006,"end":3483.9590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3484.34721875,"end":3487.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3487.41846875,"end":3487.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3488.19471875,"end":3490.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3490.5234687500006,"end":3492.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3492.1940937500003,"end":3495.1134687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3495.50159375,"end":3507.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3509.52471875,"end":3512.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3515.9372187500003,"end":3519.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3519.8522187500002,"end":3523.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3523.3790937500007,"end":3527.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3527.85096875,"end":3532.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3534.2128437500005,"end":3538.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3539.3934687500005,"end":3540.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3542.5828437500004,"end":3547.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3558.15846875,"end":3559.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3559.9978437500004,"end":3560.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3566.6465937500006,"end":3566.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3566.66346875,"end":3567.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3568.1315937500003,"end":3588.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3589.4784687500005,"end":3597.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3599.4347187500007,"end":3599.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3599.45159375,"end":3599.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3599.9747187500006,"end":3615.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3615.8034687500003,"end":3621.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3621.64221875,"end":3624.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3624.9159687500005,"end":3624.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3624.93284375,"end":3625.5740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3625.72596875,"end":3626.1815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3626.6540937500004,"end":3628.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3627.34596875,"end":3629.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3630.4678437500006,"end":3631.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3632.52659375,"end":3633.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3634.28159375,"end":3634.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3634.41659375,"end":3637.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3635.2772187500004,"end":3643.1240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3643.2928437500004,"end":3644.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3644.52471875,"end":3644.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3644.6090937500003,"end":3644.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3644.64284375,"end":3644.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3644.6765937500004,"end":3647.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3645.85784375,"end":3655.7634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3650.4815937500007,"end":3650.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3653.99159375,"end":3657.2147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3657.97409375,"end":3660.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3661.3828437500006,"end":3665.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3665.4159687500005,"end":3667.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3667.9472187500005,"end":3669.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3668.04846875,"end":3674.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3670.56284375,"end":3670.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3672.1490937500002,"end":3672.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3674.89971875,"end":3676.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3675.6084687500006,"end":3677.1609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3677.2284687500005,"end":3677.5828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3677.5828437500004,"end":3677.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3677.68409375,"end":3679.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3679.8103437500004,"end":3684.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3684.92346875,"end":3686.5097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3686.8809687500006,"end":3688.6190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3688.6190937500005,"end":3688.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3689.26034375,"end":3689.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3690.3572187500004,"end":3709.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3696.0440937500007,"end":3696.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3696.06096875,"end":3696.2128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3696.2128437500005,"end":3696.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3696.22971875,"end":3696.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3710.15159375,"end":3715.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3711.6534687500007,"end":3712.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3715.0284687500007,"end":3716.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3717.6778437500006,"end":3720.3272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3720.78284375,"end":3722.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3722.87534375,"end":3724.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3725.3053437500002,"end":3728.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3728.89971875,"end":3729.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3730.7897187500002,"end":3733.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3733.9284687500003,"end":3740.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3740.9147187500002,"end":3744.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3746.07846875,"end":3758.0428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3758.49846875,"end":3765.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3765.85596875,"end":3771.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3771.03659375,"end":3771.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3771.7959687500006,"end":3774.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3774.6984687500008,"end":3774.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3775.25534375,"end":3775.2722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3775.2722187500003,"end":3775.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3775.2890937500006,"end":3776.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3775.30596875,"end":3776.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3776.3690937500005,"end":3776.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3776.5547187500006,"end":3776.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3776.58846875,"end":3777.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3777.0272187500004,"end":3792.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3783.22034375,"end":3784.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3786.0047187500004,"end":3786.4434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3787.37159375,"end":3787.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3793.0078437500006,"end":3803.3859687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3804.78659375,"end":3812.3972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3812.86971875,"end":3813.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3813.9328437500008,"end":3816.0422187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3816.4978437500004,"end":3818.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3820.2440937500005,"end":3820.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3820.3622187500005,"end":3830.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3820.3790937500007,"end":3820.8347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3830.03159375,"end":3839.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3831.8034687500003,"end":3832.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3840.3590937500003,"end":3845.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3845.9784687500005,"end":3864.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3864.7097187500003,"end":3866.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3867.03846875,"end":3877.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3877.0284687500007,"end":3878.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3878.80034375,"end":3886.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3887.8790937500007,"end":3896.2322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3896.2322187500004,"end":3897.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3897.0084687500002,"end":3914.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3915.2840937500005,"end":3922.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3923.2490937500006,"end":3928.5309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3928.7334687500006,"end":3942.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3946.11471875,"end":3946.2159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3948.6628437500003,"end":3951.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3948.88221875,"end":3950.4178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3959.56409375,"end":3965.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3959.91846875,"end":3960.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3965.03159375,"end":3965.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3969.2334687500006,"end":3969.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3970.2965937500003,"end":3974.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3974.6503437500005,"end":3976.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3976.54034375,"end":3979.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3980.33721875,"end":3984.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3985.1972187500005,"end":3987.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3988.35284375,"end":4004.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4004.92409375,"end":4006.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4006.8984687500006,"end":4016.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4017.2090937500006,"end":4019.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4019.7740937500002,"end":4020.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4020.6853437500004,"end":4024.8703437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4025.79846875,"end":4027.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4027.3340937500006,"end":4029.7472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4030.2703437500004,"end":4031.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4031.5359687500004,"end":4049.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4046.6053437500004,"end":4049.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4050.5709687500002,"end":4053.4734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4053.99659375,"end":4058.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4054.0978437500007,"end":4054.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4059.1434687500005,"end":4061.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4061.3709687500004,"end":4062.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4062.9572187500007,"end":4066.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4066.0115937500004,"end":4072.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4072.74471875,"end":4080.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4080.38909375,"end":4080.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4080.6590937500005,"end":4081.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4081.5197187500007,"end":4098.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4098.85034375,"end":4099.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4099.491593750001,"end":4102.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4102.7147187499995,"end":4108.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4108.6884687500005,"end":4111.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4111.55721875,"end":4116.315968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4116.61971875,"end":4117.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4117.66596875,"end":4120.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4120.9228437500005,"end":4122.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4122.6103437500005,"end":4124.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4124.77034375,"end":4126.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4127.13284375,"end":4137.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4137.3759687500005,"end":4141.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4142.202218750001,"end":4142.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4143.11346875,"end":4144.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4144.446593750001,"end":4147.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4147.0790937500005,"end":4148.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4149.10409375,"end":4154.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4154.6053437499995,"end":4155.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4155.685343749999,"end":4157.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4158.16596875,"end":4159.718468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4159.954718749999,"end":4161.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4162.030343750001,"end":4168.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4168.4090937500005,"end":4172.610968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4173.01596875,"end":4174.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4175.02409375,"end":4176.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4176.6103437500005,"end":4189.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4186.93784375,"end":4187.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4190.07659375,"end":4190.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4190.36346875,"end":4196.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4196.843468749999,"end":4200.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4200.28596875,"end":4203.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4204.437218749999,"end":4217.329718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4209.39846875,"end":4212.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4217.65034375,"end":4218.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4217.73471875,"end":4219.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4219.65846875,"end":4219.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4219.92846875,"end":4220.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4220.11409375,"end":4228.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4228.19721875,"end":4234.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4229.96909375,"end":4242.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4234.79534375,"end":4235.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4242.96284375,"end":4248.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4246.13534375,"end":4247.519093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4249.22346875,"end":4251.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4251.872843749999,"end":4252.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4252.581593749999,"end":4255.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4255.78784375,"end":4257.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4257.644093749999,"end":4258.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4259.26409375,"end":4260.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4260.81659375,"end":4261.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4261.440968749999,"end":4263.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4261.52534375,"end":4268.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4263.95534375,"end":4264.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4264.073468750001,"end":4264.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4264.74846875,"end":4269.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4269.591593749999,"end":4276.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4276.98284375,"end":4277.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4278.29909375,"end":4279.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4279.4803437499995,"end":4280.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4279.530968749999,"end":4300.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4298.616593750001,"end":4300.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4300.590968750001,"end":4301.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4300.60784375,"end":4305.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4305.34971875,"end":4306.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4307.03721875,"end":4308.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4308.35346875,"end":4308.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4308.977843750001,"end":4310.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4310.17596875,"end":4310.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4310.192843750001,"end":4310.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4310.20971875,"end":4310.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4310.96909375,"end":4313.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4314.34409375,"end":4319.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4315.778468750001,"end":4316.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4319.8622187500005,"end":4326.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4324.13159375,"end":4333.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4333.5478437500005,"end":4336.534718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4335.30284375,"end":4335.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4337.429093750001,"end":4342.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4343.571593750001,"end":4344.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4344.34784375,"end":4346.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4346.25471875,"end":4356.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4347.53721875,"end":4347.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4350.7772187499995,"end":4351.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4354.169093750001,"end":4360.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4358.8603437500005,"end":4365.222218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4365.44159375,"end":4370.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4370.58846875,"end":4372.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4373.102843750001,"end":4378.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4378.84034375,"end":4378.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4378.857218749999,"end":4379.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4379.144093749999,"end":4382.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4383.34596875,"end":4395.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4385.53971875,"end":4388.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4393.79159375,"end":4400.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4400.389718750001,"end":4400.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4400.423468749999,"end":4400.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4400.54159375,"end":4402.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4402.5497187500005,"end":4403.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4403.03909375,"end":4403.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4403.22471875,"end":4403.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4403.30909375,"end":4403.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4403.342843750001,"end":4403.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4403.68034375,"end":4403.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4403.69721875,"end":4404.034718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4404.034718749999,"end":4405.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4404.54096875,"end":4406.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4406.329718749999,"end":4406.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4407.52784375,"end":4410.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4410.6834687499995,"end":4411.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4412.4384687500005,"end":4414.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4415.07096875,"end":4417.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4417.163468750001,"end":4423.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4418.327843749999,"end":4418.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4423.255343750001,"end":4423.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4423.542218750001,"end":4424.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4425.4490937499995,"end":4427.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4428.638468749999,"end":4430.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4428.7059687500005,"end":4429.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4429.077218750001,"end":4429.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4429.397843750001,"end":4429.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4430.5115937499995,"end":4430.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4439.100968750001,"end":4440.737843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4441.311593750001,"end":4442.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4447.622843749999,"end":4448.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4448.50034375,"end":4450.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4450.28909375,"end":4450.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4450.84596875,"end":4451.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4452.077843749999,"end":4456.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4456.88721875,"end":4458.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4459.215968750001,"end":4461.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4462.32096875,"end":4465.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4466.995343750001,"end":4468.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4468.93596875,"end":4469.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4471.83846875,"end":4473.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4475.02784375,"end":4479.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4478.149718750001,"end":4479.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4480.394093749999,"end":4481.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4482.030968749999,"end":4482.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4483.718468749999,"end":4485.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4484.764718750001,"end":4486.064093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4487.717843750001,"end":4491.784718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4492.71284375,"end":4497.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4497.94409375,"end":4498.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4499.243468750001,"end":4508.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4504.778468750001,"end":4505.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4505.0653437500005,"end":4505.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4506.280343750001,"end":4508.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4508.72721875,"end":4510.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4509.840968750001,"end":4510.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4510.85346875,"end":4513.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4514.36346875,"end":4516.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4516.439093749999,"end":4518.362843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4517.232218749999,"end":4518.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4518.497843749999,"end":4519.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4519.47659375,"end":4524.454718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4524.825968749999,"end":4525.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4526.91846875,"end":4527.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4528.74096875,"end":4529.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4529.78721875,"end":4531.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4532.622218750001,"end":4533.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4534.022843750001,"end":4536.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4536.58784375,"end":4540.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4541.16096875,"end":4542.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4542.966593749999,"end":4544.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4544.53596875,"end":4546.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4547.151593750001,"end":4554.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4554.9647187499995,"end":4555.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4556.331593749999,"end":4560.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4560.7528437500005,"end":4561.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4561.42784375,"end":4561.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4562.08596875,"end":4564.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4564.634093750001,"end":4567.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4568.380343750001,"end":4571.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4571.384093750001,"end":4571.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4572.34596875,"end":4574.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4574.624093750001,"end":4575.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4575.80534375,"end":4577.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4577.86409375,"end":4579.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4580.091593749999,"end":4585.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4585.778468750001,"end":4586.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4586.807843750001,"end":4588.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4589.06909375,"end":4589.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4590.030968749999,"end":4594.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4594.14846875,"end":4595.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4596.460343750001,"end":4598.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4599.90284375,"end":4602.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4603.075343750001,"end":4604.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4604.340968750001,"end":4605.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4605.53909375,"end":4608.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4609.200968749999,"end":4611.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4611.05721875,"end":4619.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4612.55909375,"end":4613.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4615.22534375,"end":4615.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4617.01409375,"end":4618.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4619.07284375,"end":4623.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4623.780968749999,"end":4624.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4624.388468749999,"end":4625.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4625.26596875,"end":4629.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4629.602843750001,"end":4630.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4630.41284375,"end":4631.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4631.104718750001,"end":4632.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4632.6572187500005,"end":4634.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4634.31096875,"end":4635.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4635.44159375,"end":4637.753468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4638.124718749999,"end":4643.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4643.77784375,"end":4644.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4645.161593750001,"end":4645.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4646.35971875,"end":4650.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4650.57846875,"end":4655.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4655.202218750001,"end":4655.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4655.235968749999,"end":4655.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4655.607218749999,"end":4660.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4661.12534375,"end":4663.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4663.6903437500005,"end":4665.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4665.4959687499995,"end":4666.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4667.08221875,"end":4667.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4667.099093750001,"end":4669.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4669.98471875,"end":4673.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4673.88284375,"end":4674.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4674.86159375,"end":4676.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4676.58284375,"end":4678.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4678.37159375,"end":4678.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4679.147843750001,"end":4679.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4679.384093750001,"end":4684.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4684.7840937500005,"end":4687.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4687.28159375,"end":4687.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4687.298468749999,"end":4687.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4687.61909375,"end":4689.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4687.669718749999,"end":4687.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4689.374093750001,"end":4690.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4689.829718749999,"end":4694.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4690.13346875,"end":4690.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4691.939093749999,"end":4691.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4691.9559687500005,"end":4691.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4691.97284375,"end":4694.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4695.53346875,"end":4696.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4695.7528437500005,"end":4696.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4696.967843750001,"end":4698.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4699.262843750001,"end":4706.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4706.620343750001,"end":4708.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4709.185343749999,"end":4710.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4711.22721875,"end":4713.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4713.454718749999,"end":4714.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4713.99471875,"end":4714.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4715.142218749999,"end":4719.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4720.019093750001,"end":4722.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4722.4490937499995,"end":4723.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4722.90471875,"end":4725.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4725.604718750001,"end":4727.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4727.96721875,"end":4730.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4731.274718750001,"end":4732.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4731.3084687499995,"end":4731.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4731.34221875,"end":4731.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4733.35034375,"end":4739.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4739.425343750001,"end":4740.555968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4740.825968749999,"end":4743.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4743.67784375,"end":4743.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4744.4540937500005,"end":4751.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4751.72721875,"end":4756.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4757.430968750001,"end":4759.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4759.50659375,"end":4761.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4761.919718749999,"end":4764.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4764.737843750001,"end":4766.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4766.847218750001,"end":4767.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4767.01596875,"end":4769.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4769.901593750001,"end":4775.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4775.757218750001,"end":4778.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4778.69346875,"end":4781.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4780.09409375,"end":4780.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4781.8153437500005,"end":4782.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4782.085343750001,"end":4783.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4783.70534375,"end":4786.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4786.489718750001,"end":4789.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4790.35409375,"end":4793.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4794.10034375,"end":4796.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4796.479718750001,"end":4796.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4797.34034375,"end":4798.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4797.829718749999,"end":4798.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4798.859093749999,"end":4800.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4800.360968749999,"end":4803.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4803.8709687499995,"end":4804.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4805.710343750001,"end":4806.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4808.78159375,"end":4810.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4811.65034375,"end":4815.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4818.450968749999,"end":4819.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4820.96534375,"end":4824.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4824.9647187499995,"end":4826.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4826.2978437500005,"end":4828.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4828.71096875,"end":4830.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4831.309718750001,"end":4833.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4833.99284375,"end":4834.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4835.25846875,"end":4840.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4841.384093750001,"end":4842.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4843.03784375,"end":4845.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4845.974093750001,"end":4850.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4850.985968749999,"end":4851.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4851.91409375,"end":4855.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4855.42409375,"end":4856.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4856.97659375,"end":4859.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4858.630343750001,"end":4858.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4858.64721875,"end":4859.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4859.96346875,"end":4860.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4860.0478437500005,"end":4860.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4860.06471875,"end":4860.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4860.081593750001,"end":4860.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4860.132218750001,"end":4860.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4860.16596875,"end":4860.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4860.33471875,"end":4860.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4860.925343750001,"end":4864.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4864.89096875,"end":4869.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4869.885968750001,"end":4873.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4873.56471875,"end":4876.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4873.61534375,"end":4877.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4878.28971875,"end":4880.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4880.68596875,"end":4882.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4882.862843750001,"end":4885.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4885.3603437500005,"end":4887.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4885.37721875,"end":4885.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4887.53721875,"end":4888.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4888.920968750001,"end":4890.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4890.06846875,"end":4890.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4890.33846875,"end":4893.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4893.561593750001,"end":4899.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4895.755343750001,"end":4896.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4898.7928437499995,"end":4903.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4901.86409375,"end":4902.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4904.108468750001,"end":4907.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4908.24284375,"end":4909.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4910.014718750001,"end":4912.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4913.153468750001,"end":4917.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4916.54534375,"end":4917.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4917.72659375,"end":4920.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4917.743468750001,"end":4917.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4919.16096875,"end":4928.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4924.64534375,"end":4924.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4927.59846875,"end":4929.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4932.5428437499995,"end":4936.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4942.110968749999,"end":4945.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4945.958468750001,"end":4946.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4950.90284375,"end":4951.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4951.03784375,"end":4951.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4951.763468749999,"end":4962.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4962.968468749999,"end":4968.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4969.04346875,"end":4981.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4982.104718750001,"end":4988.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4988.50034375,"end":4996.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4996.347218750001,"end":4998.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4996.532843749999,"end":5028.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5027.481593750001,"end":5031.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5031.19409375,"end":5033.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5033.82659375,"end":5040.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5040.57659375,"end":5043.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5043.884093750001,"end":5050.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5048.237843750001,"end":5062.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5051.17409375,"end":5053.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5055.460343750001,"end":5056.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5062.09221875,"end":5067.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5065.686593750001,"end":5067.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5067.644093750001,"end":5069.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5068.28534375,"end":5070.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5071.23846875,"end":5071.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5071.491593750001,"end":5071.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5071.913468750001,"end":5072.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5072.03159375,"end":5072.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5072.200343750001,"end":5079.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5072.284718750001,"end":5073.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5074.630343750001,"end":5074.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5074.66409375,"end":5078.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5079.085343750001,"end":5084.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5080.6884687500005,"end":5081.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5083.624718749999,"end":5100.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5095.673468749999,"end":5096.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5099.858468750001,"end":5101.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5101.107218749999,"end":5126.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5127.229718750001,"end":5134.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5135.093468749999,"end":5158.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5137.84409375,"end":5137.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5137.911593750001,"end":5138.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5159.055968750001,"end":5164.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5164.65846875,"end":5169.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5170.075343750001,"end":5172.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5172.4715937500005,"end":5173.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5174.12534375,"end":5178.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5174.850968750001,"end":5182.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5180.335343750001,"end":5189.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5183.187218749999,"end":5183.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5187.20346875,"end":5187.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5187.96284375,"end":5188.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5189.81909375,"end":5190.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5190.84846875,"end":5205.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5198.425343750001,"end":5200.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5203.589093750001,"end":5210.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5210.64284375,"end":5223.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5223.0965937500005,"end":5245.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5226.91034375,"end":5227.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5235.921593749999,"end":5236.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5236.073468750001,"end":5236.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5236.309718750001,"end":5236.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5239.85346875,"end":5240.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5243.1103437500005,"end":5243.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5244.47721875,"end":5246.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5245.79346875,"end":5257.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5257.42034375,"end":5257.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5257.55534375,"end":5257.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5257.65659375,"end":5263.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5257.6903437500005,"end":5257.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5264.50784375,"end":5284.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5285.5340937500005,"end":5291.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5291.92971875,"end":5294.376593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5293.56659375,"end":5300.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5300.35034375,"end":5317.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5318.575343750001,"end":5328.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5326.5740937499995,"end":5331.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5331.737843750001,"end":5335.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5335.585343750001,"end":5338.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5338.774718750001,"end":5343.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5342.87534375,"end":5345.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5346.030968749999,"end":5346.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5347.110968749999,"end":5351.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5347.65096875,"end":5348.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5349.91221875,"end":5355.126593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5352.00471875,"end":5352.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5353.32096875,"end":5354.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5355.413468750001,"end":5362.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5361.28596875,"end":5361.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5362.75409375,"end":5371.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5363.20971875,"end":5363.564093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5371.107218749999,"end":5377.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5373.01409375,"end":5373.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5373.48659375,"end":5373.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5376.28784375,"end":5376.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5376.33846875,"end":5376.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5376.929093750001,"end":5376.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5377.70534375,"end":5378.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5378.009093750001,"end":5391.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5380.55721875,"end":5380.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5386.294718749999,"end":5386.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5386.311593750001,"end":5386.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5391.323468750001,"end":5393.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5391.559718750001,"end":5398.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5393.02784375,"end":5394.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5394.76596875,"end":5394.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5395.98096875,"end":5398.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5402.54534375,"end":5405.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5411.77596875,"end":5412.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5413.51409375,"end":5414.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5414.6278437500005,"end":5415.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5418.930968750001,"end":5419.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5419.167218750001,"end":5419.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5419.352843750001,"end":5429.376593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5421.42846875,"end":5421.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5421.512843750001,"end":5421.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5421.647843750001,"end":5421.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5421.833468750001,"end":5421.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5429.376593749999,"end":5429.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5429.96721875,"end":5431.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5432.380343750001,"end":5436.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5436.126593749999,"end":5438.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5439.34971875,"end":5440.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5440.69971875,"end":5446.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5447.618468750001,"end":5450.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5451.43221875,"end":5455.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5456.106593750001,"end":5456.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5456.12346875,"end":5468.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5456.140343749999,"end":5456.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5461.202843749999,"end":5461.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5461.962218750001,"end":5462.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5462.4178437499995,"end":5462.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5468.425343750001,"end":5470.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5470.247843749999,"end":5472.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5472.9647187499995,"end":5473.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5474.2978437500005,"end":5477.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5477.385968750001,"end":5477.470343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5477.9090937500005,"end":5481.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5481.7059687500005,"end":5488.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5489.13096875,"end":5491.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5491.05471875,"end":5497.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5494.7840937500005,"end":5495.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5495.54346875,"end":5498.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5498.850968750001,"end":5507.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5498.96909375,"end":5499.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5500.75784375,"end":5502.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5502.360968749999,"end":5502.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5507.811593750001,"end":5508.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5508.081593750001,"end":5510.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5508.09846875,"end":5508.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5511.0009687500005,"end":5513.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5515.590968750001,"end":5521.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5522.138468749999,"end":5525.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5526.036593750001,"end":5528.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5528.97284375,"end":5531.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5531.099093750001,"end":5531.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5531.9090937500005,"end":5531.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5531.97659375,"end":5532.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5532.786593750001,"end":5534.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5536.80284375,"end":5537.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5537.83221875,"end":5546.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5541.966593749999,"end":5542.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5546.53971875,"end":5550.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5551.41659375,"end":5551.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5551.9228437500005,"end":5553.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5551.93971875,"end":5552.564093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5553.94784375,"end":5556.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5556.19221875,"end":5556.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5556.782843749999,"end":5557.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5556.7997187500005,"end":5557.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5557.120343750001,"end":5557.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5557.60971875,"end":5568.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5558.53784375,"end":5558.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5559.179093750001,"end":5559.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5559.21284375,"end":5559.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5559.280343750001,"end":5559.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5567.22846875,"end":5573.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5574.130343750001,"end":5579.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5579.3447187500005,"end":5581.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5582.196593750001,"end":5583.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5584.05284375,"end":5585.048468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5586.06096875,"end":5587.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5588.760968750001,"end":5590.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5590.33034375,"end":5590.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5590.6678437499995,"end":5595.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5594.717843750001,"end":5613.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5613.600968750001,"end":5619.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5616.11534375,"end":5616.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5617.634093750001,"end":5618.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5619.20346875,"end":5626.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5627.72534375,"end":5630.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5631.20159375,"end":5633.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5633.952218750001,"end":5634.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5635.167218750001,"end":5636.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5637.02346875,"end":5637.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5638.52534375,"end":5640.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5640.8709687499995,"end":5645.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5645.9334687499995,"end":5653.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5653.5272187499995,"end":5669.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5669.5584687499995,"end":5676.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5676.983468750001,"end":5689.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5689.97721875,"end":5710.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5706.312218749999,"end":5706.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5710.446593750001,"end":5711.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5711.96534375,"end":5716.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5716.84221875,"end":5722.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5722.98471875,"end":5725.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5725.75221875,"end":5727.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5728.587218750001,"end":5731.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5731.33784375,"end":5732.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5733.21096875,"end":5744.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5742.76221875,"end":5755.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5746.13721875,"end":5746.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5746.812218749999,"end":5747.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5752.09409375,"end":5752.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5754.135968750001,"end":5767.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5758.60784375,"end":5758.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5767.399718750001,"end":5770.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5770.825343750001,"end":5776.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5776.2928437499995,"end":5800.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5797.42034375,"end":5797.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5799.462218750001,"end":5807.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5800.69409375,"end":5801.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5807.73096875,"end":5817.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5818.00784375,"end":5821.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5821.41659375,"end":5826.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5821.51784375,"end":5821.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5821.669718749999,"end":5821.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5821.97346875,"end":5822.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5822.378468750001,"end":5822.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5824.6903437500005,"end":5824.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5824.94346875,"end":5825.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5825.34846875,"end":5825.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5826.411593750001,"end":5830.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5826.462218750001,"end":5826.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5827.575968749999,"end":5827.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5829.16221875,"end":5833.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5830.37721875,"end":5830.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5834.005343750001,"end":5879.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5837.279093749999,"end":5837.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5837.802218750001,"end":5837.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5838.02159375,"end":5838.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5838.10596875,"end":5839.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5839.13534375,"end":5839.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5841.734093749999,"end":5841.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5841.76784375,"end":5842.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5842.03784375,"end":5842.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5843.100968750001,"end":5843.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5843.13471875,"end":5843.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5846.27346875,"end":5846.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5850.5428437499995,"end":5850.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5855.72346875,"end":5856.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5862.76034375,"end":5862.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5862.96284375,"end":5863.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5879.41596875,"end":5896.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5893.911593750001,"end":5894.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5896.18971875,"end":5898.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5901.6572187500005,"end":5903.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5904.9647187499995,"end":5907.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5914.51596875,"end":5917.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5919.84846875,"end":5920.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5922.95346875,"end":5928.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5929.3153437500005,"end":5931.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5932.437218749999,"end":5942.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5942.83221875,"end":5958.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5958.930968750001,"end":5959.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5959.724093750001,"end":5963.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5963.2509687500005,"end":5963.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5963.40284375,"end":5963.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5963.45346875,"end":5963.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5963.72346875,"end":5964.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5965.2928437499995,"end":5968.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5968.60034375,"end":5969.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5970.034718750001,"end":5970.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5971.51971875,"end":5973.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5973.983468750001,"end":5976.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5977.13909375,"end":5981.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5982.25221875,"end":5983.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5982.30284375,"end":5982.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5983.062218749999,"end":5983.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5983.770968750001,"end":5987.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5987.382218750001,"end":5990.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5991.01034375,"end":5996.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5995.6678437499995,"end":5996.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5996.1572187500005,"end":5997.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5997.372218750001,"end":6002.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6000.20721875,"end":6000.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6001.253468750001,"end":6003.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6003.71721875,"end":6008.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6007.024718750001,"end":6011.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6010.38284375,"end":6010.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6011.88471875,"end":6015.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6011.901593750001,"end":6014.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6016.2215937500005,"end":6016.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6016.23846875,"end":6016.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6016.255343750001,"end":6017.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6016.37346875,"end":6016.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6017.97659375,"end":6018.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6018.0272187499995,"end":6018.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6018.972218750001,"end":6019.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6019.107218749999,"end":6034.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6021.317843750001,"end":6022.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6022.33034375,"end":6022.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6022.51596875,"end":6022.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6022.684718750001,"end":6027.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6032.16846875,"end":6047.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6041.483468750001,"end":6042.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6045.06096875,"end":6045.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6047.40659375,"end":6047.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6047.997218750001,"end":6050.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6050.612843750001,"end":6053.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6054.3084687499995,"end":6056.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6057.7509687500005,"end":6059.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6060.2822187500005,"end":6061.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6062.560343749999,"end":6067.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6065.54721875,"end":6066.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6067.3865937499995,"end":6069.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6070.069718750001,"end":6073.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6073.7822187500005,"end":6075.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6075.840968750001,"end":6076.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6077.78159375,"end":6078.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6079.013468749999,"end":6079.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6080.9540937500005,"end":6081.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6083.63721875,"end":6086.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6088.260968750001,"end":6090.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6090.5897187499995,"end":6091.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6091.9228437500005,"end":6093.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6093.49221875,"end":6096.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6096.52971875,"end":6102.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6102.80721875,"end":6105.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6105.827843749999,"end":6107.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6107.02596875,"end":6112.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6107.616593750001,"end":6108.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6113.03346875,"end":6117.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6117.319718750001,"end":6118.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6118.484093749999,"end":6120.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6121.302218750001,"end":6123.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6123.85034375,"end":6126.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6126.786593750001,"end":6128.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6128.895968750001,"end":6130.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6131.12346875,"end":6131.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6131.612843750001,"end":6133.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6134.36346875,"end":6136.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6137.45159375,"end":6138.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6139.020968750001,"end":6140.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6140.87721875,"end":6141.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6142.22721875,"end":6145.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6145.298468750001,"end":6146.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6147.1884687500005,"end":6150.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6150.833468750001,"end":6154.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6155.339093750001,"end":6157.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6158.899718750001,"end":6160.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6161.380343750001,"end":6162.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6163.47284375,"end":6164.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6165.19409375,"end":6168.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6169.530968749999,"end":6179.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6170.155343750001,"end":6174.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6180.01034375,"end":6182.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6182.87909375,"end":6184.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6184.6678437499995,"end":6186.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6187.60409375,"end":6187.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6188.44784375,"end":6190.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6191.012843750001,"end":6199.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6199.46721875,"end":6199.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6199.5009687500005,"end":6199.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6199.51784375,"end":6200.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6199.534718750001,"end":6200.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6200.78346875,"end":6200.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6200.901593750001,"end":6200.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6200.91846875,"end":6200.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6201.94784375,"end":6203.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6203.21346875,"end":6203.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6203.77034375,"end":6206.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6205.03596875,"end":6211.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6208.917218750001,"end":6209.423468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6212.055968750001,"end":6216.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6212.17409375,"end":6212.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6214.637843750001,"end":6219.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6218.08034375,"end":6219.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6221.30346875,"end":6222.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6223.9697187500005,"end":6228.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6227.64846875,"end":6229.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6228.62721875,"end":6230.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6230.044718749999,"end":6230.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6230.50034375,"end":6233.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6235.022843750001,"end":6235.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6236.187218749999,"end":6238.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6238.532843750001,"end":6242.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6242.616593750001,"end":6245.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6247.05471875,"end":6250.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6249.72096875,"end":6255.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6251.847218750001,"end":6255.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6257.17971875,"end":6259.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6259.52534375,"end":6267.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6268.114718750001,"end":6269.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6270.86534375,"end":6273.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6274.4090937500005,"end":6276.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6277.682843750001,"end":6280.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6280.770968750001,"end":6282.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6284.010968750001,"end":6285.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6284.63534375,"end":6292.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6291.874718749999,"end":6291.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6291.8915937500005,"end":6291.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6291.94221875,"end":6292.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6292.5497187500005,"end":6292.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6292.954718750001,"end":6294.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6295.485968750001,"end":6298.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6298.97909375,"end":6303.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6303.80534375,"end":6305.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6305.526593750001,"end":6307.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6306.454718750001,"end":6308.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6308.378468750001,"end":6308.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6308.39534375,"end":6308.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6308.64846875,"end":6313.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6314.099093750001,"end":6318.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6316.88346875,"end":6317.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6317.45721875,"end":6319.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6320.241593750001,"end":6320.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6321.507218750001,"end":6323.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6323.9540937500005,"end":6325.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6325.776593750001,"end":6328.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6327.9872187500005,"end":6336.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6335.800343750001,"end":6335.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6335.850968750001,"end":6335.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6337.57221875,"end":6339.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6340.28909375,"end":6342.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6342.229718750001,"end":6343.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6343.74846875,"end":6345.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6347.376593750001,"end":6348.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6349.823468750001,"end":6351.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6351.81471875,"end":6355.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6355.98284375,"end":6358.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6358.9022187499995,"end":6361.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6362.2772187499995,"end":6369.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6366.732218749999,"end":6367.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6369.71909375,"end":6371.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6369.837218750001,"end":6374.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6372.030968749999,"end":6372.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6375.05159375,"end":6379.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6377.31284375,"end":6381.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6381.19409375,"end":6386.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6386.577218750001,"end":6389.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6389.1590937500005,"end":6390.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6390.0028437500005,"end":6390.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6390.01971875,"end":6390.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6390.20534375,"end":6391.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6390.644093750001,"end":6393.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6393.3778437500005,"end":6394.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6393.782843750001,"end":6396.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6396.43221875,"end":6397.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6397.680968750001,"end":6398.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6398.77784375,"end":6407.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6399.604718750001,"end":6400.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6405.52784375,"end":6406.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6406.9959687499995,"end":6409.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6409.42596875,"end":6411.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6411.687218749999,"end":6411.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6411.7040937500005,"end":6411.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6411.72096875,"end":6411.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6411.80534375,"end":6414.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6412.80096875,"end":6414.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6414.977843750001,"end":6418.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6416.17596875,"end":6416.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6418.42034375,"end":6418.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6419.280968749999,"end":6421.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6419.753468750001,"end":6420.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6422.30159375,"end":6426.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6426.030968749999,"end":6428.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6429.3553437499995,"end":6430.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6431.937218749999,"end":6433.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6433.388468749999,"end":6434.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6435.24471875,"end":6439.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6439.51409375,"end":6441.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6440.3915937500005,"end":6441.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6441.741593750001,"end":6444.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6444.357218749999,"end":6445.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6444.4247187500005,"end":6446.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6446.44971875,"end":6451.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6451.917218750001,"end":6452.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6453.4022187499995,"end":6459.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6458.83596875,"end":6460.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6460.33784375,"end":6460.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6461.16471875,"end":6465.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6465.99096875,"end":6468.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6469.36596875,"end":6471.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6472.60596875,"end":6474.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6475.6434687500005,"end":6476.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6477.39846875,"end":6478.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6479.288468750001,"end":6479.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6479.87909375,"end":6484.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6484.671593749999,"end":6486.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6486.52784375,"end":6488.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6489.464093750001,"end":6501.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6501.749093750001,"end":6503.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6501.833468750001,"end":6503.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6503.36909375,"end":6503.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6504.53346875,"end":6508.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6508.93784375,"end":6509.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6509.96721875,"end":6512.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6512.59971875,"end":6514.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6515.13096875,"end":6519.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6519.737843750001,"end":6525.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6520.46346875,"end":6522.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6523.8553437499995,"end":6527.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6526.116593750001,"end":6526.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6527.010968750001,"end":6534.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6527.50034375,"end":6529.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6533.474093750001,"end":6537.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6538.114718750001,"end":6540.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6540.57846875,"end":6543.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6540.595343750001,"end":6542.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6543.29534375,"end":6547.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6544.37534375,"end":6547.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6548.72909375,"end":6549.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6549.927218750001,"end":6551.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6551.96909375,"end":6552.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6553.960343750001,"end":6555.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6557.200343750001,"end":6562.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6562.212218750001,"end":6568.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6569.569718750001,"end":6570.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6570.90284375,"end":6572.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6573.653468750001,"end":6574.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6575.12159375,"end":6576.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6577.112843750001,"end":6578.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6579.036593750001,"end":6582.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6583.55909375,"end":6586.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6586.93409375,"end":6588.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6588.77346875,"end":6590.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6590.8153437500005,"end":6594.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6595.13534375,"end":6599.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6599.69159375,"end":6600.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6601.59846875,"end":6602.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6603.25221875,"end":6604.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6606.39096875,"end":6616.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6615.081593750001,"end":6615.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6616.026593750001,"end":6616.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6616.583468750001,"end":6617.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6617.96721875,"end":6620.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6618.405968749999,"end":6622.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6622.5740937499995,"end":6624.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6625.206593750001,"end":6625.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6626.77596875,"end":6634.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6633.01971875,"end":6634.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6634.622843749999,"end":6634.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6635.02784375,"end":6640.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6640.37721875,"end":6642.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6643.14471875,"end":6643.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6644.35971875,"end":6647.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6647.987843750001,"end":6649.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6649.94534375,"end":6651.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6651.5653437500005,"end":6652.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6653.421593749999,"end":6655.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6656.155343750001,"end":6657.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6658.028468750001,"end":6660.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6661.50471875,"end":6663.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6663.782843750001,"end":6666.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6667.495343750001,"end":6668.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6669.604718750001,"end":6672.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6673.60409375,"end":6675.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6677.198468750001,"end":6680.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6681.72096875,"end":6682.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6683.44221875,"end":6685.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6685.905968749999,"end":6689.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6687.94784375,"end":6688.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6689.77034375,"end":6690.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6691.3397187499995,"end":6694.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6694.680968750001,"end":6695.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6696.216593749999,"end":6698.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6698.612843750001,"end":6704.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6698.83221875,"end":6698.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6698.86596875,"end":6698.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6704.654093749999,"end":6706.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6707.06721875,"end":6708.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6709.530968749999,"end":6713.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6710.59409375,"end":6711.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6713.59784375,"end":6716.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6717.47909375,"end":6718.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6726.49034375,"end":6727.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6728.16096875,"end":6729.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6729.544718749999,"end":6730.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6731.147843750001,"end":6732.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6736.83471875,"end":6736.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6736.868468750001,"end":6737.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6737.72909375,"end":6740.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6741.644093750001,"end":6743.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6744.5634687500005,"end":6745.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6746.841593749999,"end":6750.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6750.62159375,"end":6756.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6756.91596875,"end":6760.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6761.607218749999,"end":6762.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6763.311593750001,"end":6767.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6764.27346875,"end":6764.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6764.290343750001,"end":6764.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6767.81721875,"end":6768.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6768.981593750001,"end":6771.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6771.512843750001,"end":6782.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6782.78534375,"end":6784.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6783.91596875,"end":6788.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6788.759093750001,"end":6788.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6788.894093750001,"end":6789.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6789.01221875,"end":6790.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6790.56471875,"end":6792.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6792.083468750001,"end":6792.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6792.792218750001,"end":6793.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6793.19721875,"end":6793.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6793.770968750001,"end":6795.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6796.08284375,"end":6797.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6798.15846875,"end":6799.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6799.66034375,"end":6800.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6800.77409375,"end":6801.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6801.9384687500005,"end":6803.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6804.216593749999,"end":6805.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6805.33034375,"end":6806.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6806.427218750001,"end":6807.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6807.692843750001,"end":6810.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6811.23659375,"end":6815.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6812.147843750001,"end":6812.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6815.708468750001,"end":6821.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6821.39534375,"end":6821.985968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6822.39096875,"end":6828.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6829.3603437500005,"end":6831.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6831.030968749999,"end":6834.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6833.241593750001,"end":6834.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6834.52409375,"end":6838.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6835.114718750001,"end":6839.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6838.304093750001,"end":6838.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6839.53596875,"end":6839.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6840.53159375,"end":6843.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6843.90659375,"end":6849.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6849.28971875,"end":6851.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6850.94346875,"end":6851.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6851.905343750001,"end":6854.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6854.807843750001,"end":6856.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6856.967843750001,"end":6859.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6859.5497187500005,"end":6862.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6865.253468750001,"end":6865.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6866.18159375,"end":6867.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6866.434718750001,"end":6867.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6868.05471875,"end":6868.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6868.88159375,"end":6871.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6871.98659375,"end":6878.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6874.09596875,"end":6876.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6879.9853437500005,"end":6881.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6881.79096875,"end":6884.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6884.794718749999,"end":6884.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6885.452843749999,"end":6893.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6885.975968750001,"end":6886.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6892.60784375,"end":6893.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6894.24471875,"end":6898.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6896.03346875,"end":6896.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6896.202218750001,"end":6896.235968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6896.2528437500005,"end":6896.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6898.024718750001,"end":6898.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6898.27784375,"end":6898.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6898.446593750001,"end":6899.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6899.712218750001,"end":6901.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6902.7665937500005,"end":6906.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6906.47909375,"end":6908.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6908.77409375,"end":6909.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6910.09034375,"end":6912.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6911.40659375,"end":6912.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6912.216593749999,"end":6912.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6912.368468750001,"end":6913.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6915.25409375,"end":6918.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6918.966593749999,"end":6920.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6920.58659375,"end":6923.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6921.29534375,"end":6921.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6922.9490937499995,"end":6923.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6923.82659375,"end":6927.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6924.01221875,"end":6924.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6928.12971875,"end":6928.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6929.26034375,"end":6932.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6932.60159375,"end":6934.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6935.284718750001,"end":6935.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6936.128468750001,"end":6936.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6937.208468750001,"end":6939.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6937.866593750001,"end":6940.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6941.0897187499995,"end":6944.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6945.139718750001,"end":6946.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6946.65846875,"end":6949.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6950.69159375,"end":6951.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6951.2147187499995,"end":6951.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6951.231593750001,"end":6952.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6951.839093750001,"end":6954.454718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6953.475968750001,"end":6958.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6958.116593750001,"end":6958.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6958.23471875,"end":6959.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6959.095343750001,"end":6959.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6959.97284375,"end":6965.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6965.2040937500005,"end":6967.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6967.212218750001,"end":6967.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6967.262843750001,"end":6967.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6967.51596875,"end":6970.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6967.65096875,"end":6967.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6970.84034375,"end":6971.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6971.700968749999,"end":6972.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6972.29159375,"end":6974.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6974.519093750001,"end":6975.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6976.358468750001,"end":6987.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6986.247218750001,"end":6988.204718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6987.76596875,"end":6989.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6989.4872187500005,"end":6992.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6992.372843749999,"end":6993.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6993.99284375,"end":6994.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6995.0897187499995,"end":6996.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6995.12346875,"end":6995.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6996.929093750001,"end":6998.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6998.54909375,"end":6999.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6999.91596875,"end":7001.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7001.78909375,"end":7002.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7002.76784375,"end":7004.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7005.0965937500005,"end":7006.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7006.56471875,"end":7008.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7008.33659375,"end":7009.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7009.264718750001,"end":7009.298468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7009.298468750001,"end":7009.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7009.450343750001,"end":7015.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7009.484093750001,"end":7009.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7015.356593750001,"end":7017.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7017.786593750001,"end":7017.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7017.921593750001,"end":7019.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7020.030968750001,"end":7020.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7020.0478437500005,"end":7020.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7020.33471875,"end":7021.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7020.35159375,"end":7020.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7021.88721875,"end":7027.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7024.78971875,"end":7025.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7026.67971875,"end":7027.017218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7027.017218750001,"end":7027.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7028.046593750001,"end":7029.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7029.885968750001,"end":7030.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7030.915343750001,"end":7032.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7032.265343750001,"end":7035.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7033.497218750001,"end":7033.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7035.370343750001,"end":7035.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7035.52221875,"end":7038.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7035.80909375,"end":7036.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7038.357218749999,"end":7042.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7042.491593750001,"end":7045.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7042.55909375,"end":7043.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7045.47846875,"end":7045.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7045.7147187499995,"end":7047.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7048.296593750001,"end":7049.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7049.49471875,"end":7049.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7050.186593750001,"end":7051.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7052.194718750001,"end":7052.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7053.10596875,"end":7054.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7055.384093750001,"end":7059.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7059.56909375,"end":7061.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7062.10034375,"end":7062.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7063.70346875,"end":7064.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7065.39096875,"end":7066.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7066.639718750001,"end":7067.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7068.647843750001,"end":7069.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7069.37346875,"end":7070.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7071.044093750001,"end":7072.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7072.579718750001,"end":7074.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7074.38534375,"end":7075.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7075.920968750001,"end":7081.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7081.388468749999,"end":7085.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7086.130343750001,"end":7087.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7088.2059687500005,"end":7090.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7090.399718750001,"end":7091.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7091.73284375,"end":7093.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7093.403468750001,"end":7093.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7094.31471875,"end":7096.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7097.31846875,"end":7104.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7104.8447187500005,"end":7108.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7105.23284375,"end":7106.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7109.40096875,"end":7115.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7115.999093750001,"end":7120.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7119.036593750001,"end":7126.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7125.19596875,"end":7130.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7129.19534375,"end":7132.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7132.536593750001,"end":7134.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7133.093468750001,"end":7135.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7136.11409375,"end":7137.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7137.61596875,"end":7141.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7141.75034375,"end":7142.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7142.897843750001,"end":7147.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7147.57221875,"end":7148.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7148.55096875,"end":7151.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7151.385968750001,"end":7155.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7155.689093750001,"end":7156.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7156.22909375,"end":7156.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7156.33034375,"end":7158.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7157.055968750001,"end":7158.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7159.13159375,"end":7164.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7163.519093750001,"end":7169.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7169.948468750001,"end":7173.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7174.15034375,"end":7179.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7178.26784375,"end":7178.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7179.280343750001,"end":7180.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7181.609093750001,"end":7182.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7183.397843750001,"end":7183.954718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7184.96721875,"end":7185.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7186.215968750001,"end":7187.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7188.274718750001,"end":7188.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7188.89909375,"end":7191.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7192.122218750001,"end":7197.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7198.36596875,"end":7203.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7203.29346875,"end":7203.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7203.52971875,"end":7216.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7203.732218749999,"end":7204.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7217.384093750001,"end":7218.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7218.7509687500005,"end":7222.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7223.3915937500005,"end":7225.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7225.9228437500005,"end":7229.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7228.15034375,"end":7228.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7229.50034375,"end":7232.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7229.517218750001,"end":7229.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7231.05284375,"end":7231.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7232.014718750001,"end":7232.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7232.03159375,"end":7237.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7232.40284375,"end":7233.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7235.35596875,"end":7235.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7236.0478437500005,"end":7236.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7237.75221875,"end":7241.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7241.194718750001,"end":7243.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7243.405343750001,"end":7247.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7244.26596875,"end":7244.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7245.81846875,"end":7249.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7249.210343750001,"end":7251.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7250.762843750001,"end":7250.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7250.91471875,"end":7251.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7252.09596875,"end":7252.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7252.46721875,"end":7260.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7254.137843750001,"end":7254.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7254.6103437500005,"end":7255.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7260.314093750001,"end":7261.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7262.17034375,"end":7263.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7263.62159375,"end":7265.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7265.96721875,"end":7267.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7267.823468750001,"end":7268.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7268.1103437500005,"end":7270.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7269.62909375,"end":7273.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7271.73846875,"end":7272.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7273.493468750001,"end":7275.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7273.679093750001,"end":7275.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7275.99096875,"end":7278.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7279.18034375,"end":7281.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7280.91846875,"end":7283.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7283.567843750001,"end":7284.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7284.647843750001,"end":7295.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7295.41409375,"end":7308.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7301.06721875,"end":7301.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7307.17596875,"end":7307.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7308.07034375,"end":7313.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7309.28534375,"end":7309.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7313.55471875,"end":7318.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7318.78596875,"end":7320.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7320.8447187500005,"end":7322.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7323.3759687500005,"end":7325.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7325.333468750001,"end":7326.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7326.90284375,"end":7328.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7329.653468750001,"end":7332.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7332.6572187500005,"end":7335.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7336.403468750001,"end":7337.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7337.82096875,"end":7342.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7356.417218750001,"end":7359.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7359.555968750001,"end":7362.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7370.30534375,"end":7371.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7372.161593750001,"end":7377.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7380.29534375,"end":7386.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7386.370343750001,"end":7387.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7388.985968750001,"end":7390.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7390.84221875,"end":7394.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7391.669093750001,"end":7392.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7395.044093750001,"end":7397.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7398.4697187500005,"end":7400.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7400.427218750001,"end":7406.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7408.358468750001,"end":7411.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7412.07096875,"end":7417.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7417.97721875,"end":7419.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7424.08596875,"end":7426.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7426.93784375,"end":7427.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7428.0009687500005,"end":7429.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7430.81909375,"end":7433.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7437.130343750001,"end":7438.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7440.2353437500005,"end":7449.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7450.05659375,"end":7459.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7462.29096875,"end":7464.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7464.56909375,"end":7465.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7467.606593750001,"end":7469.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7469.81721875,"end":7470.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7472.17971875,"end":7473.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7472.39909375,"end":7474.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7474.778468750001,"end":7479.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7479.94221875,"end":7481.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7481.44409375,"end":7484.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7484.39721875,"end":7488.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7488.413468750001,"end":7489.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7490.522843750001,"end":7491.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7492.868468750001,"end":7496.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7497.4247187500005,"end":7500.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7500.7997187500005,"end":7503.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7503.9384687500005,"end":7506.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7507.077218750001,"end":7509.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7510.46909375,"end":7511.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7511.68409375,"end":7512.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7513.65846875,"end":7515.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7515.936593750001,"end":7519.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7519.75034375,"end":7521.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7522.14659375,"end":7522.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7523.800343750001,"end":7525.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7526.1122187500005,"end":7526.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7527.040343750001,"end":7529.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7530.280343750001,"end":7531.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7532.59221875,"end":7533.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7533.4697187500005,"end":7534.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7534.482218749999,"end":7534.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7535.17409375,"end":7536.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7536.20346875,"end":7538.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7539.7978437500005,"end":7542.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7542.85221875,"end":7543.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7543.763468749999,"end":7546.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7547.45909375,"end":7548.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7549.75409375,"end":7552.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7553.60159375,"end":7555.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7556.21721875,"end":7556.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7556.993468750001,"end":7560.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7560.43596875,"end":7563.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7565.17784375,"end":7567.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7567.9959687499995,"end":7571.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7572.0965937500005,"end":7573.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7576.0115937499995,"end":7577.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7577.68221875,"end":7577.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7578.779093749999,"end":7578.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7578.89721875,"end":7579.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7579.94346875,"end":7583.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7583.470343750001,"end":7584.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7583.87534375,"end":7585.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7586.2040937500005,"end":7588.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7588.60034375,"end":7589.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7589.562218750001,"end":7590.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7591.215968750001,"end":7592.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7593.25784375,"end":7596.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7596.71721875,"end":7600.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7600.9022187499995,"end":7601.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7601.577218750001,"end":7602.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7603.028468750001,"end":7606.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7606.4540937500005,"end":7610.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7610.82471875,"end":7613.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7613.845343750001,"end":7615.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7615.60034375,"end":7619.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7619.481593750001,"end":7626.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7619.616593750001,"end":7619.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7619.63346875,"end":7619.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7619.65034375,"end":7619.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7619.667218750001,"end":7620.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7620.038468750001,"end":7620.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7621.1522187499995,"end":7621.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7622.02971875,"end":7622.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7623.075968749999,"end":7630.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7626.82221875,"end":7628.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7629.927218750001,"end":7631.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7631.5809687500005,"end":7632.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7631.59784375,"end":7633.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7633.639718750001,"end":7635.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7635.61409375,"end":7642.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7635.647843750001,"end":7637.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7639.579718750001,"end":7642.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7642.920968750001,"end":7653.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7642.93784375,"end":7643.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7645.46909375,"end":7648.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7654.446593750001,"end":7655.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7655.762843750001,"end":7656.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7657.12971875,"end":7658.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7659.222218750001,"end":7660.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7661.02784375,"end":7662.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7663.7615937499995,"end":7665.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7666.93409375,"end":7667.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7668.267218750001,"end":7668.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7669.60034375,"end":7671.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7672.485968750001,"end":7673.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7675.118468750001,"end":7676.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7676.02971875,"end":7678.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7676.805968750001,"end":7677.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7678.729718750001,"end":7686.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7686.036593750001,"end":7686.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7686.86346875,"end":7687.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7687.0322187500005,"end":7688.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7688.97284375,"end":7691.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7689.090968750001,"end":7690.204718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7692.465968750001,"end":7694.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7695.030968750001,"end":7698.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7698.743468750001,"end":7704.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7704.784718750001,"end":7706.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7707.01221875,"end":7720.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7711.83846875,"end":7711.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7711.8553437499995,"end":7711.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7721.25471875,"end":7723.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7724.562218750001,"end":7732.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7732.1728437500005,"end":7732.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7732.18971875,"end":7734.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7736.425343750001,"end":7742.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7741.8759687500005,"end":7745.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7744.356593750001,"end":7747.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7748.03534375,"end":7752.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7748.339093750001,"end":7749.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7752.49034375,"end":7767.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7766.91846875,"end":7770.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7770.34409375,"end":7770.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7770.749093750001,"end":7770.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7771.4072187500005,"end":7782.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7773.76971875,"end":7774.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7783.827218750001,"end":7787.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7788.19784375,"end":7790.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7790.77971875,"end":7793.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7793.96909375,"end":7794.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7794.829718750001,"end":7796.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7797.47909375,"end":7798.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7798.60971875,"end":7801.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7801.61346875,"end":7806.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7807.2665937500005,"end":7809.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7810.169093750001,"end":7810.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7810.962218750001,"end":7819.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7818.70784375,"end":7818.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7819.04534375,"end":7820.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7820.091593749999,"end":7823.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7820.5809687500005,"end":7827.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7827.7528437500005,"end":7828.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7827.98909375,"end":7832.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7832.27534375,"end":7832.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7833.135968750001,"end":7834.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7833.54096875,"end":7835.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7835.83596875,"end":7836.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7837.067843750001,"end":7840.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7840.88159375,"end":7844.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7845.083468750001,"end":7847.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7845.134093750001,"end":7845.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7848.458468750001,"end":7850.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7850.26409375,"end":7851.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7850.280968750001,"end":7852.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7852.94721875,"end":7854.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7853.622218750001,"end":7855.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7855.56284375,"end":7855.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7855.61346875,"end":7855.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7855.680968750001,"end":7856.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7855.79909375,"end":7860.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7861.33409375,"end":7862.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7862.65034375,"end":7863.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7863.645968750001,"end":7863.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7863.882218750001,"end":7864.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7865.36721875,"end":7866.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7866.835343750001,"end":7866.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7866.86909375,"end":7867.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7867.24034375,"end":7867.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7867.37534375,"end":7869.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7869.653468750001,"end":7871.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7871.982218749999,"end":7875.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7875.71159375,"end":7876.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7876.403468750001,"end":7876.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7876.42034375,"end":7876.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7882.073468750001,"end":7886.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7894.1053437499995,"end":7897.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7898.02034375,"end":7898.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7903.403468750001,"end":7903.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7903.42034375,"end":7904.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7904.145968750001,"end":7905.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7905.276593750001,"end":7911.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7912.14471875,"end":7914.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7914.99659375,"end":7916.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7916.59971875,"end":7919.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7920.00846875,"end":7921.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7921.544093750001,"end":7924.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7925.08784375,"end":7929.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7929.89721875,"end":7932.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7932.44534375,"end":7947.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7946.13096875,"end":7950.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7947.80159375,"end":7958.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7958.9559687500005,"end":7962.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7963.259093750001,"end":7965.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7966.88721875,"end":7969.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7969.80659375,"end":7971.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7970.49846875,"end":7971.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7971.544718749999,"end":7978.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7973.940968750001,"end":7975.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7977.5184687500005,"end":7980.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7981.3153437500005,"end":7982.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7983.1884687500005,"end":7990.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7984.909718750001,"end":7985.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7991.001593750001,"end":7992.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7993.27971875,"end":7998.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7998.7978437500005,"end":8005.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8005.733468750001,"end":8033.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8005.83471875,"end":8007.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8034.555968750001,"end":8039.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8040.29346875,"end":8049.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8040.360968750001,"end":8040.782843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8041.93034375,"end":8042.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8042.841593750001,"end":8043.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8046.452843750001,"end":8048.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8048.950343750001,"end":8054.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8050.637843750001,"end":8051.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8054.02971875,"end":8056.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8057.16846875,"end":8058.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8057.26971875,"end":8060.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8058.889718750001,"end":8058.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8059.83471875,"end":8059.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8059.85159375,"end":8060.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8060.3915937500005,"end":8060.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8060.6278437500005,"end":8063.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8060.67846875,"end":8060.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8062.12971875,"end":8062.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8064.036593750001,"end":8066.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8066.36534375,"end":8070.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8070.8709687499995,"end":8099.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8078.667218750001,"end":8078.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8078.68409375,"end":8081.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8099.895968750001,"end":8100.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8100.75659375,"end":8102.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8103.4228437500005,"end":8115.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8115.741593750001,"end":8122.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8122.913468750001,"end":8125.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8125.5965937500005,"end":8145.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8145.44159375,"end":8149.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8150.21721875,"end":8150.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8151.19596875,"end":8153.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8153.92971875,"end":8157.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8157.7772187499995,"end":8158.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8158.485968750001,"end":8161.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8162.36721875,"end":8172.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8172.458468750001,"end":8175.310343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8176.50846875,"end":8182.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8182.5497187500005,"end":8184.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8184.99659375,"end":8185.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8186.059718750001,"end":8187.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8188.32096875,"end":8189.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8190.90284375,"end":8191.341593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8191.88159375,"end":8192.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8192.742218750001,"end":8196.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8197.46721875,"end":8199.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8199.88034375,"end":8200.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8200.74096875,"end":8206.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8205.75284375,"end":8208.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8206.714718750001,"end":8207.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8208.672218750002,"end":8214.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8208.925343750001,"end":8208.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8214.477218750002,"end":8222.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8220.164093750001,"end":8222.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8223.167843750001,"end":8229.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8227.26846875,"end":8231.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8230.10346875,"end":8239.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8232.80346875,"end":8233.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8236.80284375,"end":8237.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8240.414093750001,"end":8240.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8240.44784375,"end":8241.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8240.464718750001,"end":8248.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8246.10096875,"end":8246.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8246.50596875,"end":8246.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8249.47596875,"end":8254.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8255.14596875,"end":8255.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8256.040343749999,"end":8266.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8265.743468749999,"end":8265.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8265.777218750001,"end":8265.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8265.96284375,"end":8266.165343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8266.87409375,"end":8269.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8269.60784375,"end":8280.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8277.47159375,"end":8277.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8278.73721875,"end":8279.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8281.21784375,"end":8281.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8282.06159375,"end":8291.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8284.862843750001,"end":8285.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8291.477843749999,"end":8295.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8296.13534375,"end":8297.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8297.687843750002,"end":8315.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8300.809718750003,"end":8302.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8313.70221875,"end":8317.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8316.520343750002,"end":8316.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8317.937843750002,"end":8321.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8321.430968750003,"end":8322.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8321.515343750001,"end":8322.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8322.81471875,"end":8323.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8323.219718750002,"end":8326.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8326.86471875,"end":8331.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8331.03284375,"end":8341.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8331.35346875,"end":8331.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8340.53346875,"end":8351.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8342.524718750003,"end":8342.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8352.14346875,"end":8361.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8362.555343750002,"end":8367.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8367.195968750002,"end":8383.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8368.69784375,"end":8372.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8382.214718750001,"end":8390.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8386.551593750002,"end":8387.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8388.559718750003,"end":8388.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8390.871593750002,"end":8393.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8392.74471875,"end":8395.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8396.01846875,"end":8412.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8407.81409375,"end":8408.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8408.82659375,"end":8409.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8409.231593750003,"end":8409.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8413.68659375,"end":8417.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8413.73721875,"end":8413.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8413.77096875,"end":8413.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8413.821593750003,"end":8414.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8417.09534375,"end":8421.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8420.48721875,"end":8422.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8422.44471875,"end":8430.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8425.937843750002,"end":8427.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8429.144093750001,"end":8431.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8430.71346875,"end":8431.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8431.995968750001,"end":8432.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8432.82284375,"end":8439.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8439.35346875,"end":8442.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8441.715968750003,"end":8443.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8443.707218750002,"end":8444.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8444.31471875,"end":8455.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8452.38096875,"end":8463.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8456.785343750002,"end":8457.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8457.426593750002,"end":8457.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8457.44346875,"end":8457.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8457.88221875,"end":8457.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8463.51846875,"end":8464.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8464.14284375,"end":8464.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8464.26096875,"end":8464.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8464.530968750001,"end":8465.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8464.93596875,"end":8465.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8465.03721875,"end":8465.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8465.695343750001,"end":8470.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8469.62721875,"end":8474.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8472.175343750001,"end":8475.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8474.925968750002,"end":8479.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8478.503468750001,"end":8483.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8482.48596875,"end":8483.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8483.363468750002,"end":8493.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8493.910343750002,"end":8496.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8494.281593750002,"end":8494.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8497.15034375,"end":8501.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8513.063468750002,"end":8514.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8515.34159375,"end":8516.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8520.62346875,"end":8520.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8520.657218750002,"end":8521.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8521.332218750002,"end":8542.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8542.40909375,"end":8566.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8545.902218750001,"end":8546.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8546.88096875,"end":8547.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8566.320968750002,"end":8567.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8568.210968750001,"end":8568.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8568.278468750003,"end":8570.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8569.56096875,"end":8573.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8573.67846875,"end":8573.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8573.89784375,"end":8581.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8579.972843750002,"end":8580.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8580.968468750001,"end":8581.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8581.00221875,"end":8581.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8581.47471875,"end":8582.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8582.85846875,"end":8585.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8585.659718750001,"end":8590.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8588.781593750002,"end":8590.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8590.50284375,"end":8590.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8590.70534375,"end":8599.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8598.24846875,"end":8598.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8598.535343750002,"end":8598.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8599.88534375,"end":8631.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8631.35721875,"end":8631.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8632.335968750001,"end":8636.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8634.95159375,"end":8636.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8636.33534375,"end":8641.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8639.33909375,"end":8639.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8639.777843750002,"end":8639.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8641.836593750002,"end":8642.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8642.528468750003,"end":8644.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8645.110343750002,"end":8657.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8658.188468750002,"end":8681.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8682.10034375,"end":8697.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8682.285968750002,"end":8682.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8695.02659375,"end":8695.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8697.23721875,"end":8747.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8748.31784375,"end":8749.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8750.359718750002,"end":8783.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8753.582843750002,"end":8754.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8784.04221875,"end":8787.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8784.09284375,"end":8784.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8784.109718750002,"end":8784.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8784.312218750001,"end":8784.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8787.14721875,"end":8811.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8812.51034375,"end":8817.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8817.015968750002,"end":8818.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8818.534718750001,"end":8818.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8819.46284375,"end":8822.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8823.192218750002,"end":8824.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8824.79534375,"end":8827.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8827.883468750002,"end":8829.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8829.31784375,"end":8829.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8830.07721875,"end":8832.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8832.16971875,"end":8833.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8833.688468750002,"end":8834.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8834.954093750002,"end":8835.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8836.641593750002,"end":8837.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8837.839718750001,"end":8838.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8838.86909375,"end":8840.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8840.70846875,"end":8842.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8842.800968750002,"end":8847.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8848.04909375,"end":8854.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8852.80784375,"end":8852.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8853.53346875,"end":8856.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8855.727218750002,"end":8856.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8856.60471875,"end":8877.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8858.22471875,"end":8858.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8870.25659375,"end":8871.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8877.175343750001,"end":8878.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8877.242843750002,"end":8878.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8878.559093750002,"end":8884.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8880.044093750003,"end":8880.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8884.53284375,"end":8887.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8888.44784375,"end":8889.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8890.08471875,"end":8898.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8895.87284375,"end":8895.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8895.88971875,"end":8896.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8898.45471875,"end":8900.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8900.817218750002,"end":8901.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8901.340343750002,"end":8969.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8912.950343750003,"end":8913.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8914.047218750002,"end":8914.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8932.609718750002,"end":8932.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8932.64346875,"end":8932.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8932.980968750002,"end":8933.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8970.34221875,"end":8980.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8981.41221875,"end":8992.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8992.313468750002,"end":9001.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9002.08409375,"end":9024.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9025.06784375,"end":9035.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9025.169093750003,"end":9025.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9025.18596875,"end":9025.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9025.202843750001,"end":9025.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9025.219718750002,"end":9025.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9027.34596875,"end":9027.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9027.379718750002,"end":9027.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9033.859718750002,"end":9034.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9034.028468750003,"end":9034.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9034.129718750002,"end":9034.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9034.230968750002,"end":9035.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9035.46284375,"end":9035.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9035.648468750001,"end":9035.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9035.78346875,"end":9036.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9036.42471875,"end":9038.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9039.64784375,"end":9042.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9050.835968750001,"end":9053.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9053.367218750001,"end":9054.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9058.66596875,"end":9058.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9058.969718750002,"end":9059.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9059.914718750002,"end":9063.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9064.032218750002,"end":9071.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9072.11534375,"end":9073.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9074.96721875,"end":9079.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9080.08034375,"end":9083.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9084.34971875,"end":9085.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9086.340968750003,"end":9087.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9087.67409375,"end":9088.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9088.534718750001,"end":9088.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9089.395343750002,"end":9090.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9091.15034375,"end":9093.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9093.69846875,"end":9101.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9101.71409375,"end":9102.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9102.422843750002,"end":9103.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9102.97971875,"end":9106.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9106.18596875,"end":9109.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9109.72971875,"end":9109.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9109.949093750001,"end":9111.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9111.45096875,"end":9117.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9117.30659375,"end":9117.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9117.32346875,"end":9117.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9117.340343750002,"end":9117.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9117.35721875,"end":9117.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9117.542843750001,"end":9132.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9124.832843750002,"end":9125.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9132.780968750001,"end":9133.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9133.08471875,"end":9134.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9135.312218750001,"end":9139.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9139.56471875,"end":9142.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9143.175968750002,"end":9146.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9147.52971875,"end":9152.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9153.63846875,"end":9154.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9154.80284375,"end":9162.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9163.054718750001,"end":9164.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9164.961593750002,"end":9166.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9167.52659375,"end":9169.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9170.378468750001,"end":9171.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9171.930968750003,"end":9176.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9176.36909375,"end":9180.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9180.503468750001,"end":9180.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9180.790343750003,"end":9182.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9183.27096875,"end":9187.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9188.14784375,"end":9189.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9189.44721875,"end":9191.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9192.282218750002,"end":9196.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9196.83846875,"end":9199.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9200.14596875,"end":9204.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9204.465968750003,"end":9212.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9212.71784375,"end":9217.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9217.71284375,"end":9219.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9219.265343750001,"end":9221.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9222.35346875,"end":9223.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9224.294093750003,"end":9226.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9227.179718750001,"end":9229.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9230.53784375,"end":9244.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9245.03346875,"end":9245.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9245.77596875,"end":9249.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9250.41659375,"end":9254.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9254.669093750003,"end":9256.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9256.660343750002,"end":9259.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9260.625968750002,"end":9277.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9278.024093750002,"end":9279.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9280.774718750003,"end":9286.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9286.20846875,"end":9291.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9292.70534375,"end":9298.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9298.915343750003,"end":9312.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9312.938468750002,"end":9319.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9319.890968750002,"end":9333.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9333.509093750003,"end":9337.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9338.21721875,"end":9338.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9339.38159375,"end":9340.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9341.05221875,"end":9342.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9342.90846875,"end":9343.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9343.937843750002,"end":9362.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9362.04471875,"end":9365.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9365.554718750001,"end":9367.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9367.32659375,"end":9376.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9371.37659375,"end":9371.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9371.39346875,"end":9372.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9372.59159375,"end":9372.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9373.570343750001,"end":9374.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9376.152218750001,"end":9376.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9376.422218750002,"end":9382.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9382.93596875,"end":9388.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9385.56846875,"end":9385.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9388.133468750002,"end":9388.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9388.52159375,"end":9393.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9393.972218750001,"end":9397.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9397.06034375,"end":9397.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9397.44846875,"end":9399.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9399.33846875,"end":9404.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9405.261593750001,"end":9417.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9417.32721875,"end":9418.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9417.36096875,"end":9417.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9417.42846875,"end":9417.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9419.33534375,"end":9425.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9437.070968750002,"end":9439.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9439.922843750002,"end":9442.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9443.51721875,"end":9444.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9448.64721875,"end":9449.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9449.237843750001,"end":9449.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9449.254718750002,"end":9467.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9469.184093750002,"end":9478.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9478.80284375,"end":9547.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9547.61909375,"end":9573.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9573.15096875,"end":9579.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9580.06971875,"end":9695.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9657.812843750002,"end":9658.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9695.86596875,"end":9706.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9697.43534375,"end":9697.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9697.469093750002,"end":9697.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9697.519718750002,"end":9697.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9705.957218750002,"end":9725.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9724.28346875,"end":9731.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9727.01721875,"end":9728.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9729.261593750001,"end":9746.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9743.85846875,"end":9744.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9745.49534375,"end":9745.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9746.625968750002,"end":9752.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9749.79846875,"end":9750.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9751.33409375,"end":9751.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9752.70096875,"end":9754.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9754.82721875,"end":9766.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9764.867843750002,"end":9769.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9767.871593750002,"end":9779.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9770.774093750002,"end":9773.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9780.274718750003,"end":9782.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9782.839718750001,"end":9788.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9788.25659375,"end":9793.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9792.610343750002,"end":9797.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9794.04471875,"end":9794.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9795.31034375,"end":9799.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9799.512218750002,"end":9814.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9799.883468750002,"end":9801.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9803.055968750003,"end":9803.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9804.70971875,"end":9805.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9809.92409375,"end":9810.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9811.93221875,"end":9813.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9814.649093750002,"end":9835.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9835.92846875,"end":9841.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9836.063468750002,"end":9836.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9837.29534375,"end":9838.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9838.30784375,"end":9838.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9840.383468750002,"end":9844.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9842.644718750002,"end":9842.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9842.94846875,"end":9843.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9844.382843750001,"end":9856.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9852.01034375,"end":9852.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9852.297218750002,"end":9852.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9852.415343750003,"end":9852.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9852.938468750002,"end":9852.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9852.95534375,"end":9853.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9856.364093750002,"end":9880.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9858.76034375,"end":9858.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9880.15784375,"end":9890.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9889.18596875,"end":9893.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9893.97846875,"end":9898.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9894.04596875,"end":9904.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9899.63159375,"end":9901.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9903.22596875,"end":9912.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9904.99784375,"end":9906.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9906.887843750003,"end":9906.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9906.90471875,"end":9907.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9907.292843750001,"end":9907.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9912.33846875,"end":9913.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9913.13159375,"end":9922.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9915.831593750001,"end":9916.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9916.253468750001,"end":9916.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9919.915343750003,"end":9924.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9922.952843750001,"end":9938.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9927.89721875,"end":9928.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9931.10346875,"end":9932.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9938.17409375,"end":9938.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9938.37659375,"end":9940.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9939.59159375,"end":9939.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9939.878468750001,"end":9939.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9941.97096875,"end":9947.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9957.462218750003,"end":9959.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9959.53784375,"end":9960.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9964.90409375,"end":9973.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9973.34159375,"end":9978.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9980.42909375,"end":9989.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9988.461593750002,"end":9988.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9988.84971875,"end":9988.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9988.95096875,"end":9994.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9992.29221875,"end":9992.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9994.80659375,"end":9999.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9995.76846875,"end":9997.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9998.417843750001,"end":10004.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10005.25221875,"end":10022.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10006.46721875,"end":10006.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10008.239093750002,"end":10008.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10023.257843750001,"end":10025.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10025.75534375,"end":10025.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10025.97471875,"end":10026.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10026.059093750002,"end":10026.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10026.41346875,"end":10031.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10031.47596875,"end":10033.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10033.230968750002,"end":10041.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10034.61471875,"end":10034.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10034.85096875,"end":10038.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10041.887843750003,"end":10046.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10042.52909375,"end":10043.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10044.73971875,"end":10045.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10046.86596875,"end":10056.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10055.57346875,"end":10063.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10063.909718750001,"end":10079.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10079.367218750001,"end":10082.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10081.45971875,"end":10083.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10083.51846875,"end":10087.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10083.535343750002,"end":10085.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10086.269093750001,"end":10086.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10087.872218750003,"end":10106.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10090.63971875,"end":10090.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10093.778468750003,"end":10095.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10096.343468750001,"end":10096.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10097.457218750002,"end":10098.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10099.87034375,"end":10100.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10107.227843750003,"end":10120.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10111.68284375,"end":10112.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10114.804718750001,"end":10115.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10115.00721875,"end":10115.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10115.024093750002,"end":10115.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10118.48346875,"end":10124.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10122.73596875,"end":10124.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10124.69346875,"end":10128.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10126.684718750003,"end":10132.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10132.202843750001,"end":10132.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10132.219718750002,"end":10132.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10132.55721875,"end":10137.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10138.007843750001,"end":10140.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10140.437843750002,"end":10143.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10140.539093750001,"end":10140.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10144.184093750002,"end":10148.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10148.655968750001,"end":10168.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10149.21284375,"end":10149.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10155.777218750001,"end":10155.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10155.827843750001,"end":10155.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10155.92909375,"end":10155.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10155.96284375,"end":10155.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10161.801593750002,"end":10167.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10168.16346875,"end":10189.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10168.66971875,"end":10168.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10190.28659375,"end":10200.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10200.884093750003,"end":10202.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10202.74034375,"end":10202.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10202.75721875,"end":10203.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10203.145343750002,"end":10203.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10203.16221875,"end":10204.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10204.79909375,"end":10209.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10205.558468750001,"end":10205.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10207.465343750002,"end":10207.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10209.59159375,"end":10211.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10212.409718750001,"end":10218.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10216.695968750002,"end":10225.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10224.69471875,"end":10225.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10225.16721875,"end":10226.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10226.93909375,"end":10228.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10227.023468750001,"end":10230.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10231.05659375,"end":10231.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10232.136593750001,"end":10233.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10233.351593750001,"end":10245.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10244.370968750001,"end":10245.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10245.97409375,"end":10246.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10246.497218750003,"end":10247.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10246.51409375,"end":10247.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10247.644718750002,"end":10247.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10247.745968750001,"end":10257.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10247.88096875,"end":10248.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10257.246593750002,"end":10261.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10257.65159375,"end":10265.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10265.29596875,"end":10270.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10271.337218750003,"end":10278.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10278.964718750001,"end":10281.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10281.79971875,"end":10285.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10285.714718750001,"end":10293.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10293.54471875,"end":10300.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10293.899093750002,"end":10294.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10300.952843750001,"end":10318.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10319.042843750001,"end":10320.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10319.80221875,"end":10324.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10324.915343750003,"end":10327.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10327.581593750001,"end":10340.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10331.175968750002,"end":10331.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10332.914093750001,"end":10333.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10335.141593750002,"end":10335.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10335.175343750001,"end":10335.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10340.38971875,"end":10342.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10340.42346875,"end":10340.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10342.54971875,"end":10353.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10343.612843750001,"end":10344.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10344.777218750001,"end":10347.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10349.316593750002,"end":10349.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10352.387843750003,"end":10370.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10369.566593750002,"end":10374.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10373.54909375,"end":10374.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10374.96659375,"end":10375.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10375.65846875,"end":10379.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10375.675343750001,"end":10376.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10377.734093750001,"end":10397.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10382.40846875,"end":10382.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10382.442218750002,"end":10382.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10395.402218750001,"end":10401.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10397.12346875,"end":10397.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10400.34659375,"end":10422.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10403.738468750002,"end":10404.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10404.059093750002,"end":10404.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10408.109093750001,"end":10408.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10412.378468750001,"end":10412.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10414.386593750001,"end":10414.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10419.80346875,"end":10420.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10422.65534375,"end":10437.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10422.672218750002,"end":10422.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10422.70596875,"end":10422.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10422.992843750002,"end":10423.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10436.222843750002,"end":10444.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10439.817218750002,"end":10440.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10444.64346875,"end":10457.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10456.30409375,"end":10461.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10459.08846875,"end":10459.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10461.97409375,"end":10462.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10462.24409375,"end":10464.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10464.167843750001,"end":10464.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10464.218468750001,"end":10464.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10464.30284375,"end":10464.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10464.84284375,"end":10464.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10464.977843750003,"end":10465.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10465.028468750003,"end":10469.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10466.68221875,"end":10469.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10469.93909375,"end":10470.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10470.968468750001,"end":10471.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10471.086593750002,"end":10471.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10471.407218750002,"end":10471.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10471.457843750002,"end":10471.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10471.96409375,"end":10472.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10472.031593750002,"end":10472.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10472.976593750001,"end":10473.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10473.128468750001,"end":10473.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10473.48284375,"end":10473.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10473.617843750002,"end":10499.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10474.292843750001,"end":10474.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10474.343468750001,"end":10474.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10474.562843750002,"end":10474.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10478.22471875,"end":10478.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10478.612843750001,"end":10478.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10486.493468750003,"end":10486.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10486.51034375,"end":10486.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10486.527218750001,"end":10488.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10488.02909375,"end":10490.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10497.293468750002,"end":10498.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10501.343468750001,"end":10519.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10505.832218750002,"end":10505.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10505.84909375,"end":10506.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10506.034718750001,"end":10506.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10511.097218750001,"end":10511.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10512.02534375,"end":10512.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10513.628468750001,"end":10513.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10526.655968750001,"end":10529.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10530.419093750003,"end":10531.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10535.34659375,"end":10535.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10535.380343750003,"end":10536.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10535.886593750001,"end":10616.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10617.477218750002,"end":10618.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10619.65409375,"end":10630.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10627.19721875,"end":10631.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10630.808468750001,"end":10638.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10637.44034375,"end":10641.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10640.59596875,"end":10644.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10643.97096875,"end":10647.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10644.645968750003,"end":10651.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10651.969718750002,"end":10660.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10660.27221875,"end":10664.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10663.883468750002,"end":10665.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10664.507843750001,"end":10668.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10666.38096875,"end":10666.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10667.79846875,"end":10671.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10669.70534375,"end":10682.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10672.000343750002,"end":10672.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10683.77909375,"end":10692.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10686.74909375,"end":10686.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10686.765968750002,"end":10688.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10690.292843750001,"end":10690.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10691.305343750002,"end":10691.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10692.469718750002,"end":10692.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10693.245968750001,"end":10709.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10710.84659375,"end":10714.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10715.520968750003,"end":10715.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10716.80346875,"end":10718.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10718.79471875,"end":10721.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10721.933468750001,"end":10726.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10729.071593750003,"end":10731.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10731.56909375,"end":10743.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10744.664093750001,"end":10752.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10753.86096875,"end":10761.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10761.84284375,"end":10765.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10766.41596875,"end":10767.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10767.546593750001,"end":10769.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10770.364718750003,"end":10770.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10770.95534375,"end":10777.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10777.688468750002,"end":10787.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10777.70534375,"end":10778.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10787.661593750003,"end":10787.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10787.67846875,"end":10787.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10787.77971875,"end":10790.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10789.129718750002,"end":10789.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10790.175968750002,"end":10798.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10798.02284375,"end":10802.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10802.76471875,"end":10805.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10806.105968750002,"end":10807.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10808.29971875,"end":10817.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10808.333468750003,"end":10808.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10817.547218750002,"end":10831.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10828.97159375,"end":10833.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10833.98346875,"end":10837.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10837.71284375,"end":10854.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10855.22909375,"end":10857.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10859.12721875,"end":10861.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10861.92846875,"end":10872.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10872.964718750001,"end":10883.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10883.849093750003,"end":10890.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10890.480968750002,"end":10896.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10896.82596875,"end":10900.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10900.133468750002,"end":10901.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10901.753468750001,"end":10910.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10910.66346875,"end":10918.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10918.34159375,"end":10923.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10923.218468750001,"end":10923.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10923.235343750002,"end":10923.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10923.690968750001,"end":10927.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10926.94784375,"end":10931.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10931.80784375,"end":10954.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10938.13596875,"end":10939.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10940.903468750003,"end":10941.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10956.074093750001,"end":10965.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10965.96284375,"end":10967.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10966.43534375,"end":10968.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10967.66721875,"end":10971.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10971.750968750002,"end":10973.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10973.860343750002,"end":10977.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10974.754718750002,"end":10977.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10977.809093750002,"end":10977.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10977.82596875,"end":10985.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10977.859718750002,"end":10978.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10978.028468750003,"end":10978.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10978.63596875,"end":10978.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10983.344093750002,"end":11011.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11010.968468750001,"end":11015.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11015.187218750001,"end":11029.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11035.977218750002,"end":11037.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11037.64784375,"end":11038.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11043.317843750003,"end":11043.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11043.97596875,"end":11044.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11044.02659375,"end":11044.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11044.43159375,"end":11044.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11045.29221875,"end":11045.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11046.372218750003,"end":11047.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11047.90784375,"end":11050.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11051.316593750002,"end":11053.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11054.35409375,"end":11057.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11057.40846875,"end":11059.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11060.327843750001,"end":11061.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11062.21784375,"end":11063.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11063.989718750003,"end":11069.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11070.26721875,"end":11074.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11074.688468750002,"end":11077.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11077.35471875,"end":11079.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11079.801593750002,"end":11081.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11082.164093750001,"end":11084.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11085.336593750002,"end":11087.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11087.53034375,"end":11087.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11088.25596875,"end":11091.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11091.47909375,"end":11092.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11092.54221875,"end":11094.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11095.15784375,"end":11095.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11096.17034375,"end":11102.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11102.97096875,"end":11105.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11105.40096875,"end":11105.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11106.24471875,"end":11108.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11106.29534375,"end":11106.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11106.83534375,"end":11107.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11107.375343750002,"end":11107.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11108.23596875,"end":11108.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11108.87721875,"end":11114.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11114.277218750001,"end":11114.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11116.42034375,"end":11117.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11116.89284375,"end":11119.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11119.289093750001,"end":11134.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11133.362843750001,"end":11133.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11133.379718750002,"end":11133.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11133.39659375,"end":11133.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11133.430343750002,"end":11134.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11134.56096875,"end":11144.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11144.80409375,"end":11144.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11144.820968750002,"end":11144.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11144.972843750002,"end":11145.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11145.023468750001,"end":11146.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11146.086593750002,"end":11146.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11146.20471875,"end":11146.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11146.440968750001,"end":11146.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11146.49159375,"end":11146.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11146.52534375,"end":11147.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11147.554718750001,"end":11148.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11148.567218750002,"end":11150.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11150.828468750002,"end":11154.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11154.54096875,"end":11154.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11155.48596875,"end":11155.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11155.992218750001,"end":11160.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11160.97034375,"end":11162.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11162.15159375,"end":11162.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11163.231593750003,"end":11166.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11166.809093750002,"end":11174.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11174.925968750002,"end":11179.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11179.735343750002,"end":11184.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11185.219718750002,"end":11189.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11190.164093750001,"end":11190.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11191.36221875,"end":11199.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11200.187843750002,"end":11209.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11210.160968750002,"end":11212.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11212.28721875,"end":11216.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11216.35409375,"end":11221.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11221.31534375,"end":11222.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11223.559718750003,"end":11224.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11224.774718750003,"end":11227.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11227.980968750002,"end":11233.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11234.59596875,"end":11237.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11237.61659375,"end":11238.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11239.202843750001,"end":11240.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11240.468468750001,"end":11241.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11241.227843750003,"end":11244.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11244.737843750001,"end":11245.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11246.25659375,"end":11249.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11249.41221875,"end":11251.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11251.89284375,"end":11252.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11253.78284375,"end":11255.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11255.622218750003,"end":11257.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11258.946593750003,"end":11268.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11268.83534375,"end":11283.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11273.020343750002,"end":11273.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11283.347843750002,"end":11291.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11285.11971875,"end":11288.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11289.76034375,"end":11289.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11291.633468750002,"end":11301.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11302.079093750002,"end":11302.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11303.918468750002,"end":11308.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11309.36909375,"end":11312.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11313.63846875,"end":11318.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11318.97096875,"end":11328.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11328.960968750001,"end":11329.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11329.93971875,"end":11330.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11330.918468750002,"end":11333.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11333.53409375,"end":11335.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11335.812218750001,"end":11340.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11340.33471875,"end":11347.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11347.962218750003,"end":11353.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11353.41284375,"end":11366.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11366.457218750002,"end":11371.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11371.92471875,"end":11379.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11379.50159375,"end":11384.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11384.614718750003,"end":11386.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11386.79159375,"end":11396.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11396.69721875,"end":11419.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11396.933468750001,"end":11396.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11409.74159375,"end":11409.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11409.977843750003,"end":11410.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11410.028468750003,"end":11410.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11418.01034375,"end":11419.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11419.96784375,"end":11420.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11420.035343750002,"end":11420.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11420.96346875,"end":11432.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11421.351593750001,"end":11423.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11424.96284375,"end":11425.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11425.18221875,"end":11426.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11432.910968750002,"end":11440.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11440.31909375,"end":11444.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11441.753468750001,"end":11446.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11447.01846875,"end":11450.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11449.144718750002,"end":11461.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11455.45596875,"end":11455.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11461.851593750001,"end":11485.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11485.03784375,"end":11485.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11485.223468750002,"end":11485.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11485.98284375,"end":11489.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11485.999718750001,"end":11487.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11489.83034375,"end":11500.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11494.133468750002,"end":11494.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11494.302218750003,"end":11494.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11494.47096875,"end":11494.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11494.707218750002,"end":11494.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11494.757843750001,"end":11494.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11495.348468750002,"end":11495.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11497.862843750001,"end":11498.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11498.38596875,"end":11498.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11500.02284375,"end":11500.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11500.039718750002,"end":11500.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11500.191593750002,"end":11502.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11500.410968750002,"end":11500.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11500.765343750001,"end":11500.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11501.305343750002,"end":11501.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11501.457218750002,"end":11501.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11501.49096875,"end":11501.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11501.74409375,"end":11501.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11511.210968750001,"end":11513.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11517.134093750003,"end":11520.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11517.488468750002,"end":11518.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11525.234093750001,"end":11525.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11527.562843750002,"end":11533.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11534.22846875,"end":11551.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11551.74471875,"end":11554.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11554.461593750002,"end":11556.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11557.245968750001,"end":11573.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11573.58096875,"end":11575.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11575.825343750003,"end":11578.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11579.031593750002,"end":11589.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11589.93284375,"end":11591.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11591.805968750003,"end":11626.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11626.61909375,"end":11648.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11649.19784375,"end":11653.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11653.99034375,"end":11679.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11680.112843750001,"end":11689.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11689.410968750002,"end":11693.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11694.01784375,"end":11694.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11695.047218750002,"end":11715.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11715.43221875,"end":11716.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11717.11971875,"end":11785.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11776.992218750001,"end":11777.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11779.844093750002,"end":11780.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11786.10471875,"end":11800.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11800.92096875,"end":11812.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11812.429718750001,"end":11813.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11813.492843750002,"end":11815.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11815.484093750001,"end":11817.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11817.52596875,"end":11867.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11868.03284375,"end":11873.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11873.93909375,"end":11888.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11888.97471875,"end":11894.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11894.324093750001,"end":11894.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11894.93159375,"end":11894.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11894.965343750002,"end":11897.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11897.41221875,"end":11913.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11913.730343750001,"end":11928.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11928.664718750002,"end":11929.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11930.68971875,"end":11932.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11934.80721875,"end":11936.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11944.39221875,"end":11948.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11944.594718750002,"end":11944.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11944.949093750001,"end":11944.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11949.083468750003,"end":11949.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11954.90534375,"end":11955.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11955.462218750003,"end":11964.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11964.675968750002,"end":11990.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11991.08534375,"end":11995.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11995.92846875,"end":12001.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12001.699718750002,"end":12004.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12004.72034375,"end":12007.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12007.555343750002,"end":12007.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12007.825343750003,"end":12024.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12023.097218750001,"end":12023.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12025.172843750002,"end":12042.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12034.79159375,"end":12035.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12042.58784375,"end":12043.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12043.49909375,"end":12046.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12046.165343750003,"end":12054.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12054.552218750003,"end":12058.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12059.597843750002,"end":12062.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12061.977218750002,"end":12062.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12062.93909375,"end":12075.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12067.59659375,"end":12068.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12076.08471875,"end":12083.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12084.218468750001,"end":12088.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12089.027843750002,"end":12105.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12105.91971875,"end":12120.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12120.820343750001,"end":12125.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12125.54534375,"end":12137.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12138.758468750002,"end":12147.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12147.48284375,"end":12173.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12173.942843750003,"end":12180.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12180.81096875,"end":12181.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12181.06409375,"end":12190.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12183.56159375,"end":12183.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12185.50221875,"end":12186.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12188.18534375,"end":12188.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12190.919093750003,"end":12197.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12194.699093750001,"end":12194.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12194.98596875,"end":12195.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12197.989718750003,"end":12198.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12198.32721875,"end":12203.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12203.355968750002,"end":12217.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12215.370968750001,"end":12215.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12216.09659375,"end":12232.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12219.20159375,"end":12219.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12221.53034375,"end":12222.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12228.06096875,"end":12228.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12232.718468750001,"end":12238.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12237.02159375,"end":12237.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12239.384093750003,"end":12241.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12241.78034375,"end":12247.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12244.024718750003,"end":12244.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12244.04159375,"end":12244.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12246.285968750002,"end":12264.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12252.023468750001,"end":12254.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12263.684093750002,"end":12264.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12264.34221875,"end":12264.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12264.39284375,"end":12266.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12266.29971875,"end":12266.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12266.82284375,"end":12276.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12270.83909375,"end":12271.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12271.14284375,"end":12271.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12277.67346875,"end":12279.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12279.47909375,"end":12290.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12290.71784375,"end":12293.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12294.261593750001,"end":12300.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12300.555968750003,"end":12307.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12307.57596875,"end":12308.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12307.761593750001,"end":12307.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12308.250968750002,"end":12313.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12313.566593750002,"end":12314.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12314.882843750001,"end":12320.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12320.519093750001,"end":12332.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12332.230343750001,"end":12338.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12337.765343750001,"end":12338.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12338.474093750003,"end":12342.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12338.49096875,"end":12339.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12339.942218750002,"end":12340.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12341.629718750002,"end":12350.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12343.958468750003,"end":12344.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12351.24846875,"end":12352.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12352.547843750002,"end":12359.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12352.61534375,"end":12353.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12357.188468750002,"end":12361.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12360.78284375,"end":12363.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12361.69409375,"end":12363.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12363.73596875,"end":12364.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12364.02284375,"end":12364.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12364.05659375,"end":12364.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12364.090343750002,"end":12364.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12364.15784375,"end":12364.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12365.406593750002,"end":12367.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12375.98721875,"end":12376.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12377.894093750001,"end":12385.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12385.724093750003,"end":12394.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12394.465343750002,"end":12407.67846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1846.381,"end":1851.189,"text":"請主任秘書報告出席人數現在開會進行報告事項 請宣讀上次會議意思錄"},{"start":1857.864,"end":1879.079,"text":"立法院第十一屆第四會期內政委員會第九次全體委員會議議事錄時間一百十四年十一月五日星期三上午九十至下午一時三十五分地點紅樓二零二會議室出席委員蘇巧慧委員等十三人列席委員林德夫委員等二十四人請假委員黃婕委員一人列席官員內政部部長劉士芳暨相關人員主席王昭吉委員美會"},{"start":1879.879,"end":1896.452,"text":"報告事項一 宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定二 邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況含上會期臨時提案辦理情形並被質詢內政部部長劉世芳報告委員張志倫等29人質詢分別由內政部部長劉世芳及相關人員答覆說明"},{"start":1896.972,"end":1899.713,"text":"前各位委員上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏無錯誤議事錄確定那現在繼續進行本日議程報告事項請宣讀"},{"start":1926.383,"end":1937.393,"text":"邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況並備質詢 宣讀完畢現在介紹在場的委員以及列席的官員我們先介紹我們網美會召委張志倫委員"},{"start":1954.98,"end":1972.337,"text":"大陸委員會主任委員邱垂正 邱主委臺灣版海岸交流 海峽交流基金會董事長吳豐山 副董事長副董事長兼秘書長羅文嘉"},{"start":1981.943,"end":1986.768,"text":"我們接下來請大陸委員會邱垂政邱主委報告"},{"start":1996.178,"end":2021.887,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士 各位先生 大家早安陳門貴委員會的邀請 報告本會的業務基本的狀況我們有提出詳細的書面報告進行指教 我們這裡針對口頭部分加以補充在近期工作方面因應中共對台複合性的施壓我們致力於維護台海現狀"},{"start":2023.837,"end":2052.956,"text":"今年五二零後中共透過軍事威脅外交打壓經濟脅迫社會爭鬥法律戰以及一連串的混合認知戰及灰色地帶侵擾等複合性的手段日益對台升高施壓這也是台海及區域以及區域和平穩定現狀的最大威脅近期藉由三個八十週年系列的活動宣傳其對台"},{"start":2053.977,"end":2059.421,"text":"主權的主張並在國際場域宣傳其一中原則扭曲聯大2758號決議壓縮台灣國際空間另外一方面中共持續推動促融促統10月以來中共高層三度提及推進統一並強調統一後的好處中共也在10月召開了四中全會通過了1555規劃建議"},{"start":2083.459,"end":2106.317,"text":"涉台的部分仍重申要推動兩岸融合發展面對中共對台施壓脅迫政府將積極落實和平四大支柱行動方案以及國安統戰威脅17項的因應策略來堅定捍衛國家主權安全以及民眾的福祉致力於維護台海和平穩定現狀第二"},{"start":2108.243,"end":2131.593,"text":"本會會密駐中國大陸經濟與兩岸經濟情勢的變化來增強台灣的經濟韌性當前中國大陸經濟面臨多重的矛盾困境疊加美中對抗及地緣政治的壓力壓縮中國大陸經濟發展的空間中共相關的政策規劃目標能否達成"},{"start":2133.194,"end":2161.529,"text":"可能都會面臨嚴峻的挑戰而相關的情勢的變化以升高台商在中國大陸投資經營的風險以及不確定性本會將持續密駐國際中國大陸經濟及兩岸經貿情勢來強化兩岸經貿交流的風險控管滾動檢討兩岸經貿政策持續強化服務大陸台商協助多元佈局"},{"start":2162.549,"end":2190.294,"text":"提升競爭力及風險意識以增強台灣的經濟韌性另外政府也基於台灣優先及立足台灣佈局全球行銷全世界的經貿戰略積極改善投資環境延長歡迎台商回台投資行動番號到2027年底第三 落實兩岸人員交流管理機制提醒國人負入人身安全風險"},{"start":2192.1,"end":2214.248,"text":"國人賦入的人身安全一向是政府最重視的議題從去年到今年的10月31號本會接獲國人賦入失聯遭留置盤查以及疑似遭到中共有關部門限制國人人身自由的案例達到233人"},{"start":2217.386,"end":2243.452,"text":"这些统计当中因为涉及宗教因素而遭到中共有关部门逮捕关押者既有14名迄今均未获释返回台湾国人附入仍然具有高度的安全风险对于个案的状况政府会依照家属的意愿提供所需要的协助那另外我们也会透过向路方洽查"},{"start":2244.392,"end":2245.715,"text":"要求落實協議通報以確保國人權益我們也會透過"},{"start":2250.373,"end":2276.337,"text":"多元的管道提醒國人甚思思考附路的安全性以及必要性留意人生的安全另外我們針對中共對台強化統戰滲透破壞兩岸單一身份的制度我們在明年開始正式實施常態化機制化的查核對國家有高度忠誠義務的軍公教人員"},{"start":2277.137,"end":2303.234,"text":"不得再入涉及及領用中共的身份證件這是為了強化我們的民主韌性與國家安全更是為了保護我們真實的自由民主的生活方式我們在上個月有進行民調高達77%的民眾支持政府查核軍公教有無領用中共身份證件"},{"start":2305.035,"end":2317.142,"text":"顯見政府的查核作為獲得大多數國人的肯定與支持四 深化我青年學子中國大陸的嗜讀教育多面向的認識兩岸關係發展現況"},{"start":2320.684,"end":2338.022,"text":"為強化協助台灣青年學生多面向的認識中國大陸社會現況及兩岸關係發展的深度與廣度本會結合國內大學學術專業機構推動相關的多元教學活動"},{"start":2339.604,"end":2361.622,"text":"並協助大學通識中心科技大學開設相關的通識課程運用民間學術專業資源來提升我青年學子對國際及兩岸事務之參與以及對提升兩岸議題的深度理解與思辨能力五 密駐港澳情勢發展的動態"},{"start":2363.844,"end":2385.304,"text":"因應保障公務機密與國人安全中共藉由國安法制融合策略與愛國者治理加深對港澳之掌控並在各領域廣設國安紅線持續削弱香港的基本自由澳門多元意見表達的空間也受到了限縮"},{"start":2386.385,"end":2415.949,"text":"政府密切關注港澳的情勢發展收整香港涉國安案件的行為樣態以及國安禁地的資訊會在本會的官網公布前往或過境港澳注意事項提醒國人注意赴港澳的風險我們也在今年的9月10號修正行政院及所屬各機關人員赴香港澳門注意事項明定我政府相關人員赴港澳"},{"start":2416.389,"end":2430.853,"text":"不論平日假日及各種事由應該在行前通報完成人事差遣系統登錄作業如有各種的會見或聯繫特定身份的人員也應該主動通報所屬機關及本會以強化"},{"start":2435.394,"end":2459.382,"text":"公務機密以及公務人員人身安全的保障在未來的工作的方向第一個我們仍然持續掌握中共的對台動態維護台海和平及台灣民主自由當前中國大陸的經濟受到美中貿易科技管制等影響持續低迷內部控制"},{"start":2461.443,"end":2489.566,"text":"區議員民怨及社會壓力累積日升加上區域地緣政治的情勢動盪美中台互動關係變化等都可能牽動中共對台政策及兩岸關係的走向本會將持續密註掌握中國大陸政經情勢的發展以及中共對台動向針對中共對台的統戰滲透觸動促統等這些政治的操作我們會妥善研議"},{"start":2490.393,"end":2502.742,"text":"因應的作為以致力於維護台海和平穩定及台灣的自由民主生活方式二拒絕中共一中前提捍衛台灣參與APEC會議的正當權益"},{"start":2504.195,"end":2533.915,"text":"明年中国大陆将在深圳准备APEC峰会,针对中共设置一中原则作为我国与会的政治前提。政府对参与APEC的立场非常明确,台湾与中国大陆都是APEC正式的成员,台湾参与各项APEC活动是正当的权益,APEC场域不存在中共所谓一中原则,面对中共无理打压台湾的国际参与,"},{"start":2534.515,"end":2555.466,"text":"台灣不會屈服 更不會接受無理的條件有關明年台灣參與APEC各種可能的情境與狀況本會會協助主管機關審慎評估及妥善因應堅定我國作為APEC正式成員的地位與尊嚴三 審慎應對陸方經濟脅迫強化兩岸經貿的風險控管"},{"start":2562.216,"end":2586.344,"text":"中共長期將對台的拉打軟硬兩手策略將經貿手段武器化並作為對台統戰分化的工具操作兩岸融合發展的措施推出所謂的會台或是補助政策持續我企業人才及資金企圖以達成處容處統的政治目的"},{"start":2587.014,"end":2607.774,"text":"政府將審慎評估並妥善應處中共對我經貿統戰滲透及經濟脅迫本於強本固台風險管理的原則就兩岸經貿進行必要有序有策略的結構調整強化兩岸經貿風險管控並持續掌握陸方經貿政策對台商投資影響"},{"start":2609.162,"end":2631.682,"text":"配合相關主管機關的政策作為提供台商諮詢輔導服務以協助我業者加以因應第四我們也會持續滾動兩岸的交流管理作為以確保國家安全利益以人民福祉我們會支持推動兩岸健康有序的交流"},{"start":2632.786,"end":2647.943,"text":"並配合整體形勢及兩岸關係的變化滾動 調整 入籍人士申請來台 試遊循序進行的推動兩岸人員的往來以及經貿互動及教育文化各項的交流活動"},{"start":2649.349,"end":2671.695,"text":"本會要重申我們一向正面看待兩岸的良性交流與互動主張兩岸交流應該合於法令規範將持續會同相關主管機關完善兩岸交流事務管理也會適時檢討並精進兩岸人員往來的風險控管強化安全機制以應取措施"},{"start":2672.415,"end":2693.357,"text":"避免受到中共政治的干預 衍生國安風險讓兩岸交流可以在保障台灣社會安全的前提下穩健進行五 嚴疫反制中共懲毒22條跨國鎮壓的恫嚇國人的操作中共對台完全不具"},{"start":2694.685,"end":2716.48,"text":"司法管轄前其所謂的法律與規範對國人毫無拘束力中共踐踏以規則為基礎的國際秩序台灣並非是中共跨國鎮壓的唯一受害者本會將配合我們的外交部門與國際友門共同合作研議針對中國的跨國鎮壓"},{"start":2720.483,"end":2735.255,"text":"提出反制的作為促請國際社會拒絕承認其對我國人的通緝或懸賞之效力也絕對不會配合中共濫用全球邪氣的制度"},{"start":2736.089,"end":2756.783,"text":"第四 強化兩岸資訊的互通分享台灣民主多元的價值為增進中國大陸民眾對兩岸關係對台灣社會發展的現況認識與了解本會會透過多元管道向中國大陸傳遞台灣民主法治科技生活等人文"},{"start":2757.864,"end":2772.783,"text":"多方面的活力與創新分享台灣文化的軟實力同時辦理兩岸青年學生公民以及新聞研習等活動來促進兩岸青年相互的理解"},{"start":2773.684,"end":2799.487,"text":"七 逐步完善對港澳的安全管理機制維護國家安全與民眾福祉鑑於近年來港澳情勢變化快速本會持續檢視港澳相關法規健全安全管理規範並協助各主管機關強化涉入之港澳金流人流來台相關管理措施及國安審查另外"},{"start":2800.1,"end":2820.715,"text":"本會也會會同內政部移民署通盤檢視港澳人士來台定居留的制度強化安全管理機制以因應中共對港澳的影響以控制及對港澳居民結構性的改變因而對台灣整體國安及社會的危害捷運"},{"start":2822.528,"end":2847.679,"text":"賴總統已經日前強調堅定反兵吞反侵略反對中共推進統一我們也期待北京當局要體現大國責任放棄以武力改變台海現狀彰顯兩岸應該追求和平的精神本會要再次呼籲陸方正視中華民國與中華人民共和國"},{"start":2849.308,"end":2866.419,"text":"互不隸屬的客觀事實與台海現狀以務實理性的態度與台灣人民選合法政府進行對話共同承擔台海及區域的和平責任 以上報告敬請各位委員指教 謝謝大家謝謝邱主委的報告 接下來我們請海基會的吳豐山董事長報告"},{"start":2895.452,"end":2922.381,"text":"主席各位委員海基會成立民國80年3月是一個由政府委託執行公權力的中介角色的民間機構對岸在同年12月成立海協會成為海基會互動的窗口很扼要的說海基會的工作就是交流跟對話"},{"start":2924.707,"end":2950.812,"text":"就交流而言 兩岸人民交流所衍生的事物樣態還多 舉凡群人返鄉出入境 人身安全 隨利財政經貿糾紛 漁市糾紛 犯罪防治 房屋車簽補償房屋土地遭佔用 債務繼承 清錢糾紛"},{"start":2954.762,"end":2982.857,"text":"訴訟執行沒有結果的調查還有親人沉默狀況的調查可以說不遺而主此外我們還對台商跟台商的子女做了很多服務民國82年兩會曾經商定兩會聯繫以會談制度誰一直到今天"},{"start":2983.786,"end":3013.469,"text":"我们都根据这样的协议持续发行给海协会如果从本会成立开始算起我们累计的案件处理两岸人民交流事务所衍生的这个案件已经超过900万件只去年民国113年就累计了30万4千多件"},{"start":3014.745,"end":3028.815,"text":"今年的1月到10月我們已經處理超過20萬件因此外界好像有人誤解海基會的工作已經中斷這個是不是事實各位委員交流沒有中斷中斷的是對話對話中斷是2016年蔡英文總統上台之後對岸"},{"start":3046.081,"end":3074.041,"text":"這個認為新政府沒有承認九二共識所以片面終止對話賴總統在去年就職的時候明確表示希望兩岸以對話取代對抗以交流取代圍堵增進合作本局根據這個指示在過去一年當中多方努力恢復對話可是對岸以承認九二共識為前提"},{"start":3074.912,"end":3103.019,"text":"一直到今天都不開啟恢復對話的大門海基會是中華民國的海基會海基會接受政府委託辦事當然在處理兩岸事務上必須跟政府的政策同一步調這一點請各位委員瞭解據本人確知在處理兩岸關係上賴總統一直到今天善意不變"},{"start":3104.463,"end":3128.967,"text":"希望兩岸和平發展的政策不變主席 各位委員依照海紀委的組織章程會內的事務由秘書長重禮所以我請求主席是不是同意由羅秘書長向各位做口頭報告那這樣子會比較詳盡而且對各位也比較尊重"},{"start":3130.767,"end":3134.229,"text":"主席及各位委員那向委員會報告今年度從1月到10月底為止海基會的相關業務報告"},{"start":3157.591,"end":3182.609,"text":"那海基會的工作主要分成幾個部分第一個我們有個法律處是負責所有文書驗證還有司法文書送達以及共同打共同打擊犯罪相關協議的執行那在過去今年到10月為止我們相關的作業其中第一個我們一共在"},{"start":3183.752,"end":3204.902,"text":"今年目前為止文書驗證今年一共有十一萬五千多件在進行在這是法律處的部分那法律處我們同時也關心陸配和兩岸親子互動產生的各種問題那這裡我們幫他協助這個辦理"},{"start":3208.339,"end":3237.857,"text":"大陸戶籍註銷的認證今年辦了9000多件那我們同時分別在春節中秋節以及國慶等等活動我們邀請陸配的家屬親屬一起展開座談和活動那第二塊是關於旅行業務以及人身安全和救援那國人在中國大陸旅行或是工作過程中如果發生了人身安全需要協助的那海基會都會積極提供協助"},{"start":3239.093,"end":3266.534,"text":"在今年度到10月為止我們透過小三通 金門的小三通協助國人在大陸發生事故要需要緊急回臺就醫一共有13件那我們協助大陸的人士在臺灣他如果遺失證件或是他證件遇期他要回到中國去的時候沒有辦法承行有還機會協助"},{"start":3268.168,"end":3296.61,"text":"我們今年辦了352件那協助國人如果到中國大陸失聯失蹤的案件有89案有90個人協助中國大陸的居民他如果來到台灣需要緊急事故來到台灣那我們協助有38案有71人臨時緊急需要來到台灣那另外比較特別的是我們也協助"},{"start":3297.537,"end":3313.721,"text":"台灣過去的台商到中國經商多年之後滯留中國那這樣案件目前今年有辦了89案89件那這是有關旅行及人身安全就業務這項業務海基會文教處在負責那第三個海基會的綜合處處理有關這各種"},{"start":3320.979,"end":3340.011,"text":"國際兩岸和中國大陸內部政經社會情勢的變化我們有海際會的顧問舉辦各項座談在今年為止我們一共辦了12場內部的座談以及27篇的研析專題那對外聯繫部分在國會服務這邊今年有160件的相關服務案件"},{"start":3340.936,"end":3357.079,"text":"那同時我們也邀請包含學術學校團體如果有需要進行兩岸相關課程以及各團體參訪海基會在今年到目前為止有29場有942人來海基會參與的座談以及參觀在經貿的業務部分就台商業務部分我們的經貿處跟中國大陸一共有154個"},{"start":3371.024,"end":3400.605,"text":"各地的台商協會有建立聯繫管道他們有什麼需求或是我們有什麼事項透過他們來協助我們會跟這154個在各地的台商協會來進行聯繫那今年我們分別在秋節春節以及端午節都辦理座談會來邀請這個經濟部以及相關單位跟台商來進行這個了解"},{"start":3401.564,"end":3428.782,"text":"那有關台商子女的部分今年一月份我們首次辦了台商子女的國小的夏令營那以及國中高中的探索營在今年的冬冬寒假的時候那原本其實每一年夏春暑假的時候夏天的時候我們會辦夏令營那今年因為預算刪減所以今年沒辦法舉辦所以今年停辦一年但是"},{"start":3429.775,"end":3459.076,"text":"我們仍然透過三個台商學校跟他們進行合作在今年第二季的時候有東莞的台商學校回到台灣有六十幾人進行九天八夜的環島那海基會也來協助他們舉辦這活動那以及在暑假的時候有包含東莞台校華東台校還有上海台校他們學生回到台灣返鄉"},{"start":3459.983,"end":3481.076,"text":"反台暑假授課那海基會也透過他們回來台灣的時候來跟他們進行這個活動的規劃和參與那在台灣每一學期大概有1000出頭的交換生會在台灣那海基會在每一學期每一批這個大陸的交換生來到台灣"},{"start":3481.874,"end":3507.216,"text":"我們會跟主要主辦的學校以及海基會直接規劃相關的活動邀請來臺灣交換的大陸學生更加認識臺灣那這個活動我們持續在舉辦中那以上是有關於比較具體相關海基會各項接受陸委會委託執行兩岸交流服務的工作內容報告以上請各位委員指教 謝謝"},{"start":3510.771,"end":3538.138,"text":"謝謝羅文嘉副董事長那現在進行答詢委員質詢前原例座以下幾點宣告第一本會委員發言時間5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員發言時間5分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記第二本次會議就不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":3542.63,"end":3560.963,"text":"那接下來進行答詢請登記第一位的張宏祿委員發言我先請邱主委有請邱主委張委員早"},{"start":3569.028,"end":3597.138,"text":"主委我剛看你的報告裡面你就說中共一直在國際宣傳一中原則然後推進統一然後宣揚統一之後的好處對不對我們看到的事實也是如此對不對是那我想請問一下如果是外國人要來台灣不管是觀光旅遊或是恰公他拿中國的簽證可以來台灣嗎"},{"start":3599.965,"end":3623.664,"text":"我們是接受的包括現在因為中國大陸還不願意讓他的從中國大陸人到台灣來我們還在進行小兩會的協商但是我們操之在我的部分從第三國第三地來的中國大陸籍的他在海外有不是我是說外國人"},{"start":3624.966,"end":3642.362,"text":"外國人 外國人拿中國的證件不具有中國身份的人 比如說我是當然歡迎啊 外國人到台灣的人當然歡迎啊我是單純的 比如說我是單純的加拿大人能夠拿中國的簽證可以來台灣嗎"},{"start":3643.359,"end":3655.594,"text":"那他的身份是沒有啊那當然不行喔因為他必須要以外國人的身份來台灣如果說是要有中國大陸的身份我們有一定的我不是講中國的身份喔我不是講我單純的外國人"},{"start":3661.577,"end":3674.505,"text":"他沒有中國的身份 他拿中國的簽證可以來台灣嗎拿中國的簽證怎麼來台灣呢可不可以啦 你就回到不行不行嘛 你就回到我不行就對了這就不行啦 對不對當然 當然對不對 這一個那我們在台灣在跟美國是不是還在談關稅是 目前還在進行是嘛 也不是跟中國談吧對不對"},{"start":3690.804,"end":3705.469,"text":"這個是很明顯的中國他沒有管轄到台灣台灣是一個獨立的主體我們有人民土地政府主權我們有自己的護照我們跟中國在談我們不跟中國我們跟美國在談關稅對不對我國是主權的獨立國家我們行使排他性的管轄權沒錯"},{"start":3717.848,"end":3743.93,"text":"中國他雖然一直在國際上推一中但現在大家也都知道我為什麼要特別這樣問人家加拿大就回答他你跟我講一中我拿你的簽證我就不能去台灣這全部人全世界都知道一個最簡單的所以我要請教主委如果他都一直在講一中還有一中各表嗎"},{"start":3746.141,"end":3757.774,"text":"我想從2019年元月二號習五條已經重新定義九二共識兩樣同屬於中共某國家統一統一在一國兩制台灣方案"},{"start":3758.638,"end":3787.126,"text":"之後 我想在中國所提出來的九二共識跟一中原則裡面就沒有中華民國生存的空間了沒有嘛 對不對所以九二共識就沒了嘛所謂九二共識 一個中國原則沒有個表了可以說是三位一體的對財政策對嘛 已經 九二共識已經變位了吧對不對 這個已經酸掉了吧超生啊啦"},{"start":3787.977,"end":3811.382,"text":"跟原來的不是原汁原味嘛對不對是不是這樣是好所以其實很多事情講清楚我們用護照用關稅大家都非常清楚就不用特別再去講了是台灣就是一個主權的國家那中國還是一天到晚吃我們豆腐對不對我不知道主委你現在知不知道有一個高德地圖"},{"start":3812.952,"end":3818.043,"text":"你知道 他是到處矮化台灣台灣變成他的台灣神"},{"start":3820.45,"end":3844.801,"text":"我想我們在台灣都會用GPS那中國因為它有不同的系統用高德系統你知不知道有這個地圖有 我們知道你知道嘛那你知道現在有很多人在台灣在網路上在什麼的在替中國在宣傳這個地圖好用這個怎麼樣你知不知道這些事情"},{"start":3845.541,"end":3873.791,"text":"我想導航的系統是不是要輸入我們國人的個資使用中國製的APP我也呼籲國人要注意治安的風險它甚至會帶來國安的風險所以我想我們的有關機關包括速發部也應該向我們大眾來說明使用這類的中共製的APP它可能帶來治安跟國安的風險"},{"start":3875.432,"end":3894.934,"text":"應該跟國人來說明除了資安跟國安的風險你個人的資安那還有國安你也說了所以像這種情況之下我們陸委會你會樂見他在台灣很多人在這邊推廣這個高德地圖嗎"},{"start":3895.751,"end":3914.468,"text":"当然不乐见而且我们虽然是一个自由的国家但这侵害台湾主权的我们能不能跨部会包括去跟NCC去跟你讲像这种高德地图这种的一直矮化台湾的我们不能屏蔽它吗"},{"start":3915.382,"end":3939.147,"text":"是 我想我們對於國人使用這個陸方鎖這個APP在使用這些通常都有委員講的那個問題那我們首先就是用科學的方式來檢視這些APP可能帶來的相關的風險那委員給我們一段時間我們來檢視好 謝謝"},{"start":3948.69,"end":3966.127,"text":"好謝謝張宏祿委員接下來我們請張志榮委員發言好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員早有請陸委會邱垂政主委請邱主委總委好"},{"start":3970.63,"end":3985.9,"text":"主委好 主委今天自由時報頭版不知道你有沒有看到他上面特別寫這個中國紅色通緝沈伯陽委員賴清德總統呼籲韓國瑜院長挺身護國會尊嚴"},{"start":3988.39,"end":4006.013,"text":"我想這番言論讓很多人來質疑究竟賴總統是在關心我們國人還是立委的人身安全還是在轉移焦點推卸政治責任因為我們都知道兩岸跟外交的議題跟政策皆是由總統或是行政院主導"},{"start":4007.074,"end":4024.606,"text":"對岸啟動調查或是通緝第一個該挺身而出的應該是總統本人跟行政院等等主管機關而不是主持議事職責中立的國會的這個議長韓國瑜院長我想要先請教主委這是立法院可以管的嗎"},{"start":4026.231,"end":4052.787,"text":"跟委員報告對於這個典型的跨國鎮壓我想他除了針對省委員之外其實他的目的是要針對所有台灣民眾的集體的脅迫對於跨國鎮壓我覺得我們要不分朝野我只是請教說你覺得認為這個是立法院可以管的嗎我覺得就是我們要譴責要共同譴責"},{"start":4054.062,"end":4071.768,"text":"因為他這個跨國鎮壓他的目的在於恫嚇及分化我們內部那我們就是不要讓他得逞我們要更團結我們面對挑戰我們更有韌性來回擊他好 謝謝主委這等一下我要問的問題這次我們看到這些事件產生各部會"},{"start":4073.128,"end":4101.49,"text":"我認為都沒有明確的發言對策以及具體做法等一下我要來就教我們的主委其實剛剛賴總統講的要挺身護國會尊嚴什麼是國會尊嚴我這邊跟主委報告當立法院他是立法權立法院在修法要求讓國軍加薪因為現在國軍人數很少要國軍加薪的時候結果我們行政院居然沒有編列相對的預算"},{"start":4102.952,"end":4110.466,"text":"當立法院在幫警消及公教人員保障他們未來的退休權益 退休金的時候這個行政院沒有編列預算"},{"start":4111.756,"end":4133.63,"text":"結果現在賴總統遇到事情了以後才說要企圖把這個行政權還有外交他的這些權責要推給立法院說這個就是立法院要來維護國會尊嚴所以這個很明顯就是毀憲亂政執政失能的一個非常重要的一個問題這不僅讓我想到當時賴總統"},{"start":4137.432,"end":4160.7,"text":"他去我們台灣這個中南部在尤其南部在救災的時候洪水跟淤泥淹沒了我們很多的家園的家鄉的時候他明明就是三軍統帥結果他不讓國軍到民眾的家裡去清淤他說你們自己組成一個這個團體你們自己去清淤這樣就好了或者是當民眾的頂樓的時候受損的時候"},{"start":4162.396,"end":4189.583,"text":"那個民眾跟他拜託說賴總統你是不是可以請國軍還是一些專業人士幫我們在修屋頂的時候結果賴總統說你可以自己爬你可以自己爬爬到屋頂去修然後發生了那麼多的憾事結果現在立法院有委員遭受通緝現在說立法院韓院長你可以自己出來自己聲援自己維護國會尊嚴嗎這樣做法不是就是一樣的做法嗎所以本席非常不能接受這樣的做法"},{"start":4190.503,"end":4202.292,"text":"第二個問題我現在想要請教主委的是請問發生這件事情的時候賴總統有沒有下令我們陸委會有要做什麼樣的事情你們有沒有跟陸方針對這樣的事情有去做任何的溝通來請說明跟張委員報告這個事情除了對有沒有溝通過都有只是他對不管是外交部門對陸委會都有積極的作為"},{"start":4218.874,"end":4233.8,"text":"請明確的表示我們除了要讓國人安心放心強調中共的跨境鎮壓對我國沒有管轄權我們國人絕對不受到拘束主委我的問題是你們如何努力來維護國家的安全去跟對岸去做溝通你們溝通了幾次可不可以明確回應賴總統請你溝通了嗎那你們溝通了去溝通了幾次"},{"start":4243.018,"end":4250.262,"text":"我們不斷的透過我們各種的多元管道對他們都很清楚我們的立場他這種跨境的打壓對於我們國人安全上面的恫嚇以及分化我們內部我們不會讓他得逞的我們反而要更團結委員 這個事情我們應該從頭抵抗團結一心共同來譴責中共的跨境施壓"},{"start":4270.05,"end":4295.265,"text":"所以我覺得委員你應該會站在我們這邊他這個跨境鎮壓的對象還針對國軍官兵 資通電軍 檢察官沒有 所以我要請教為什麼今天要請教陸委會的問題陸委會每年有200多個編制緣和一年也有10億的經費人民想要的是陸委會有明確的作為你們的plan A plan B plan C是什麼你們具體作為到底在哪裡"},{"start":4296.025,"end":4301.367,"text":"你們有沒有去溝通你們具體作為到底在哪裡我們該溝通的會溝通你們溝通了幾次我們在我們的各種的管道上我們該講的要講他們也很清楚我們的訴求就像你剛剛講的不要用喊話來代替對話你們到底溝通了幾次"},{"start":4314.383,"end":4332.502,"text":"我們覺得他對於我們這樣的一種跨境鎮壓我們首先要反鎮壓他的目的在侵略我們我們要反侵略 反併吞這個要自由活的意思 主委問題是你們從這個事情發生到現在你們跟對岸有沒有做溝通賴總統有沒有要求你們要去溝通你們溝通了幾次"},{"start":4333.618,"end":4351.863,"text":"我們有做這個溝通溝通解釋我們有我們不只多少次的向對岸去提出我們的嚴正聲明我想委員我們現在應該是團結一心我們絕對是團結一心可是我們也要入委會發展它的功能我們要行政單位各部會"},{"start":4352.743,"end":4376.997,"text":"要有具體的作為我們會透過各種溝通聯繫的機制向對岸表達你們到底有沒有聯繫的機制主委為什麼我今天會請教你這個問題因為其實就您商量一年多來了這一年多來你們到底有沒有辦法跟對岸溝通的機制有沒有跟中方嚴厲表證立場跟抗議你們到底是怎麼溝通我想國人想要了解的是這個狀態你們怎麼溝通的"},{"start":4378.888,"end":4406.302,"text":"跟委員報告真的是像你講的用喊話來代替對話嗎我們是過去既有的溝通聯繫機制我們不管是兩岸協議的機制雙方既有的機制我們都細心地在維護所以我剛剛議員問你說賴總統有沒有請你如果上面的人就要你不要溝通當然你現在都是我們努力溝通也要表達我們嚴正的立場你們如何溝通 溝通了幾次你們最高的溝通的成績到哪裡"},{"start":4407.563,"end":4424.2,"text":"我想我們各種的溝通都在努力我們嚴正立場也在表達謝謝主委這件事情我相信我們會繼續追希望說你們好好來做然後後續給我們一個完整的說明好不好謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝張志倫委員的質詢接下來請王美惠委員發言"},{"start":4439.147,"end":4441.988,"text":"主席 我們請主委有請邱主委黃委員好主委 各位主委本來不想這裡有幾個問題要跟你談到最主要是我們剛才委員所問的在這裡本身要跟你談到一個問題就是"},{"start":4467.045,"end":4469.806,"text":"你保養他對的人他對的人他是中華民國台灣人是不是還是阿強仔的人他是我們這裡的人我們這裡對我們中華民國台灣人中華民國嘛阿強仔 人家說阿強仔都對的人"},{"start":4492.742,"end":4496.566,"text":"如果中國人來臺灣,他都放什麼護照來臺灣,探親他們會拿著一定要申請我們的入臺證那通常他們也會,雖然有大公證主委沒講過嘛主委沒講過嘛在這裡本身要來清告一下"},{"start":4514.4,"end":4520.845,"text":"你覺得李博洋 他說沈博洋 不好意思沈博洋說要抓他有國家分類法 他違反了他是 他是分類什麼高雄報告"},{"start":4534.073,"end":4559.626,"text":"我個人認為 省委員都在...我不是要問你個人啦你站在那裡就是代表國家的議員你個人我現在要問國家的想法啦是 教委員報告我覺得省委員並沒有去違反我們中華民國什麼法律中共他的法律在台灣完全沒有所謂的管轄權"},{"start":4562.217,"end":4571.637,"text":"對台灣人完全沒有拘束力不僅是省委員在台灣的任何人都可以不受到中共的法律的管轄但是"},{"start":4572.438,"end":4584.88,"text":"中共用這種跨境鎮壓它的目的在於恫嚇我們國人以及在分化我們國人那所以我們希望國人能夠團結一致譴責這種跨境鎮壓來 主委在這裡先問一下這個22條裡面跨國的鎮壓裡面你所了解待會國家會符合它"},{"start":4600.123,"end":4604.867,"text":"會跟合作來審某樣嗎來 你回答一下是 高委員報告我們有看了所謂的懲毒二十二條這個懲毒二十二條啊都是你以為我問你以為你這樣回答就好到目前為止你說了解我們認為中國雖然跟六十幾個國家遷渡引渡協議但是過去我們國際上有所謂的政治犯良心犯"},{"start":4629.656,"end":4637.488,"text":"不引渡我想相關的國家應該不會去執行這個中共的引渡的要求"},{"start":4638.171,"end":4659.099,"text":"通常國際上是需要 兩方都要有犯罪才會去引渡中國這個對於政治的主張對於言論主張的打壓跟涉陷這樣主委 你會回答嗎我替沈柏洋反映了包括你現在全世界多少人可以配合 中共來抓沈柏洋的時候到你不成為之 你不知道"},{"start":4667.142,"end":4669.284,"text":"所以這是非常危險的所以在人民身保養到不成為止我叫不讓人出門如果出國去就好了不會啦自由民主的國家我想沒有問題我知道啦像美國也不會啦像日本也不會啦同時國際形象這國家都不會"},{"start":4697.026,"end":4701.367,"text":"因為在這我還要說我們這個問題在這段時間啊剛才我們有同事說說我們的總統讓我們的院長出來相反一下我覺得也沒什麼啊因為不管帶一棟做我們立法院的院長畢竟他是我們的大家庭我們基中有委員"},{"start":4725.755,"end":4727.116,"text":"最近什麼問題應該是都要寫完的以我的認定啦因為說實在他畢竟是中華民國立法院的院長啊沒有我當上韓院長我們不可以不叫他院長"},{"start":4744.793,"end":4746.855,"text":"畢竟他當選他是我們的院長啊他要照顧我們每一個委員啊這個事件我們應該要不分朝野團結一心 一致對外"},{"start":4757.489,"end":4759.891,"text":"因為我覺得這個問題 現在我相信這幾檔都還沒跟阿強 晚間也還沒吐槽因為大家都生活在這個自由民主的國家 都希望我們的國家"},{"start":4778.884,"end":4784.468,"text":"更安全更安全更好所以主委在這個氛圍當中你知不知道有很多人去觀賞去美酒觀賞有很多台灣人去的你知不知道了解了解嗎是那你有了解他們廟裡面的贓錢有什麼嗎你有了解嗎你沒了解"},{"start":4809.377,"end":4815.04,"text":"來 主委你看一下堅決擁護中國共產黨你看"},{"start":4821.07,"end":4833.515,"text":"所以你要去祕書要去拜拜的時候 說實在信用沒有分散啦 大家都互相尊重啦信基督教我們也要尊重 信媽祖我們也要尊重 只是你看他裡面的長城"},{"start":4841.979,"end":4863.795,"text":"我們中華民國 台灣的廟口 這就贊成說他要效忠中華民國的台灣 哈主委是 委員 你指出這個證據非常重要證明這個中共是一個無神論你現在覺得同樣嗎沒有 我們知道中共是沒有宗教自由的國家"},{"start":4864.929,"end":4876.812,"text":"尤其各種宗教都要在統戰部的宗教師管理所以他就把宗教當成一個統戰的工具所以他們要效忠中國共產黨的領導統戰要怎麼去做啦像我現在在裡面的時候你才知道一間一間在外面二空二數里有十八十六間啦"},{"start":4887.595,"end":4891.841,"text":"我們會加強宣導讓國人了解 賦路參加這個宗教的交流主委 我在這裡跟你說我們不是在耍嘴皮"},{"start":4904.259,"end":4907.681,"text":"是要如何讓中華民國的台灣保護好跟我們的背景 要出國也好 在台灣也好可以更加保護他們安全 這是最重要的這是我們職責所在跟議長 因為我這陣子的時間夠了我還有後續 有幾條問題要先 麻煩蘇美若回答一下 議長是 好 根本就預言"},{"start":4932.991,"end":4936.233,"text":"謝謝王美惠召委 接下來請徐宇甄委員發言謝謝主席 我們請我們的陸委會邱主委有請邱主委"},{"start":4950.899,"end":4978.711,"text":"邱主委好邱主委我想昨天我們賴清德總統喊話韓國瑜院長應該要聲援沈博洋那一時之間其實我們都有點錯亂怎麼會現任的總統對於這樣的兩岸事務沒有擔當而是要立法院的院長出來解決是不是代表說現在的總統他沒有能力解決兩岸的問題所以要"},{"start":4979.495,"end":5008.109,"text":"韓國瑜院長出來處理呢是 跟委員報告我想總統的意思是因為要團結國人的意志來共同反對中國這種跨境鎮壓不管是對我們國會議員還是對國人的恫嚇與分化我們應該團結一致 不分朝野一般人的感受不是這樣所以我在這邊有個建議其實我們在立法院有可以成立一個叫立法院兩岸事務因應對策小組"},{"start":5009.228,"end":5033.195,"text":"來去因應像這樣的事情所以那是由誰擔任召集人是由韓國瑜院長擔任召集人那既然行政體系沒有辦法賴清德總統覺得他沒辦法做到那我們是不是可以來成立一個立法院兩岸事務因應對策小組來去因應這相關的事宜呢我們尊重貴院的決定所以主委也贊成囉"},{"start":5033.925,"end":5039.238,"text":"也贊成這樣的兩岸事務其實是可以由立法院這邊來行政體系做不好所以由立法院來處理是這樣嗎我想大院是"},{"start":5044.215,"end":5068.352,"text":"最主要的民意代表機關如果不分朝野團結一致來一致對外兩岸的事務賴清德總統沒有辦法處理所以交由立法院來處理要不然怎麼會第一時間是喊話我們韓國瑜院長要出來因為沈委員是大院的委員沈委員是不是中華民國的國民中華民國的總統是誰"},{"start":5072.781,"end":5099.932,"text":"我們也強調既然主委也同意我們也希望雖然今天針對省委員其實他是對全體國民的集體脅迫如果陸委會也覺得說應該目前你們也沒辦法處理行政體制沒辦法處理那就由我們立法院是不是來處理那當然接下來要請教的是陸委會的主委就是明年的APEC比較特別它會在大陸的深圳舉行"},{"start":5101.209,"end":5126.409,"text":"那其實現在它已經也這個北京方面也公開宣示說必須接受一中原則作為前提那這是過去從來沒有出現過的爭執框架意味著台灣如果接受就要在國際場合放棄主權那如果拒絕就可能遭到中國已主辦方的身份直接封殺而且明年的這個APEC的深圳在深圳舉行我方"},{"start":5127.75,"end":5132.596,"text":"之前你們的副主委有開一個記者會說會努力堅守台灣的會員國地位與尊嚴"},{"start":5135.117,"end":5157.308,"text":"那APEC當然不是只是一個經濟平台也是一個外交舞台所以每一次的與會其實都是對台灣尊嚴的考驗但是光是說堅守尊嚴容易真正做到卻很難所以請教邱主委針對陸方所提出的一中原則的前提陸委會是不是已經準備好了是不是有掌握中方的盤算跟紅線"},{"start":5159.107,"end":5172.836,"text":"跟委員報告我們跟中國大陸都是APEC的正式會員過去APEC的場域不存在中共所謂的一中原則所以面對這樣的無理打壓跟他過去"},{"start":5174.181,"end":5177.763,"text":"要中國來舉辦2026年的EPIC他說對所有的會員國都不歧視原則這部分我知道但我的意思是我們一直講說我們堅守尊嚴這是必要的但是作為是什麼我現在要請教您"},{"start":5191.469,"end":5200.456,"text":"目前因為明年度的在深圳的EPIC還有很多的不確定性那我們會協助主管機關做好各種審慎評估我們都有在為未來做審慎評估那你們有沒有針對最壞情境的狀況之下實施Plan B的計畫呢"},{"start":5210.703,"end":5217.689,"text":"是 我們都不排除 我們都會審慎評估我想現在已經向美國國務院就向中國表達沒有所謂的這個一中原則來處理我們的參與我想邱主委我們要的是一個清楚的答覆而不是像這樣這個很空泛的一個政治的這個發言我覺得陸委會既然針對這個算是明年的事情"},{"start":5234.437,"end":5245.205,"text":"可是這個姿勢體大非常的重要所以陸委會應該要提前因應不管是跟我們其他各部會大家共同來研商我們針對這樣的問題要如何解決我們已經提起因應了當然在103年的時候APEC也在北京舉行那當時呢中方沒有依慣例派出特使來遞送我們的邀請函而是由國台辦的副主任當時的龔清蓋副主任出面那這樣的做法這個梁文傑副主委說這個"},{"start":5265.129,"end":5282.506,"text":"103年的做法是矮化我們中方的表現那明年會在深圳舉行那如果到時候他們所派第一個也沒有派特使第二個可能比這個台辦副主任更低的層級來去遞送這個邀請函請問要怎麼回應"},{"start":5285.558,"end":5308.295,"text":"我想必須依照國際慣例過去APEC的一些慣例來向我方遞出邀請函但103年的時候就沒有嘛103年的時候有國台辦的副主任那現在請教如果這個時候他們給的成績可能更低可能連國台辦的副主任都沒有也沒有特使的狀況之下你是不是已經跟外交部協調訂出我方對於對方遞送這個邀請函的成績"},{"start":5313.72,"end":5317.402,"text":"稱為會議接待跟代表安排的一個底線呢是我們會努力爭取我們參與以及剛剛說的必須要來跟我們遞件符合過去APEC沒有這樣的一個做法的話那到底請問主委他們來的時候如果層級更低的話你們是接還是不接這個就是違反他過去主辦"},{"start":5339.891,"end":5362.857,"text":"這個時候對國際社會所說不歧視原則的違反對那您是接還是不接那個還沒有發生的問題我們會我們知道委員的意思面對對你要去設想所有的狀況你不可能是發生之後然後到時候才說好我接或不接現在你就要設想到底如果這樣的狀況我要怎麼做那樣的狀況我要怎麼做嘛對不對是"},{"start":5363.257,"end":5366.902,"text":"我們當然跟委員的立場一樣會堅定這個我們的國家的立場跟我們參加國際主委我只是要提醒你的就是說堅守地位跟尊嚴絕對不是口號一定要有作為那所謂的作為你們一定要審慎的評估完善才不會去這個"},{"start":5383.186,"end":5399.279,"text":"我們的主權尊嚴的部分絕對不容踐踏那這也是陸委會必須要審慎去評估否則還需要陸委會做什麼是我們會從相關主管機關不要認為時間還早時間很快就到了是了解 一定要提前的因好嗎謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝徐宇甄委員接下來我們請牛許廷文發言謝謝主席"},{"start":5413.601,"end":5435.387,"text":"邱主委有請請邱主委劉委好主委早安政治表態不如解決方法大家今天包含媒體朋友大家都很關心這個沈伯央委員遇到了這樣子的一個威脅是我是覺得有一點為他感到不止因為都已經被威脅確實是遇到了一些危險一些困難"},{"start":5436.297,"end":5454.519,"text":"在國內還要被你們這樣消費我是覺得很糟糕啦我的意思是說講這個事情我請問邱主委今天大家講說我們一起聲援他改變了聊什麼現實嗎最主要是要讓老共的跨境鎮壓沒有效果他這個跨境鎮壓就是在恫嚇你以及分化我們國內的團結"},{"start":5456.127,"end":5477.238,"text":"跨境鎮壓對不對如果大家講了一致的這個宣示我們當然要保護他嘛對不對大家都中華民國國民對不對不管他是不是立法委員我們都不希望中華民國國民受到威脅但我們這樣講又怎麼樣呢他具體來講他會改變什麼你有多大的把握他會具體的改變一些現狀跟狀況還是只是純粹國內的政治考量你不希望造成國內的恐慌"},{"start":5477.984,"end":5507.553,"text":"他就是要製造我們的恫嚇我們跟分化我們那我們反而面對這個挑戰每一次的挑戰我們都把它轉換為我們台灣韌性的提升他的恫嚇讓我們更團結所以到最後還是要考國內政治的考量還是大過一屆所以我講你不要消費人家好沒關係啦這個對兩岸關係也很不好兩岸關係也很不好我們待會都會在這個題目裡面去做討論嘛是本期的主張是這樣的具體的保護啊比起立場的表述它一定更有意義嘛"},{"start":5509.234,"end":5534.697,"text":"現在沈博洋委員遇到這樣的狀況全世界各地他還剩哪些國家可以去你們有沒有清單跟委員報告我們看到中共跟其他六十幾個國家有簽引渡協議的國家我想這裡面絕大部分的特別是民主國家他不會再引渡這個政治犯良心犯我們沈博洋委員他能不能去越南"},{"start":5536.86,"end":5553.431,"text":"你有辦法把握講嗎我想我們過去也說跟中國大陸關係比較密切比較密切容易受到中國大陸影響的國家但是風險當然會比較高對啊我現在就要問風險清單嘛所以他能不能去越南他能不能去柬埔寨我想行前你會不會建議他不要去"},{"start":5554.273,"end":5583.172,"text":"我們現在行前要審慎評估啦行前審慎評估好 他能不能去土耳其我想我們的外交部門也會積極的去嗆各國他安全的不僅是沈伯央位置我們國人都一樣今天大家要聽到的其實是這樣嘛也就是說我們基於保護他安全的實際作為是什麼比如說我剛問他能不能去越南你講越南什麼樣什麼樣的關係我不建議他去可能會有危險對不對大家聽到才安心嘛他能不能去土耳其他能不能去白俄羅斯"},{"start":5584.093,"end":5612.288,"text":"他能不能去塔吉克他能不能去摩洛哥或埃及就這些東西才是大家要聽到的對不對 你只講民主國家民主國家他都可以去這些都有一點尷尬這些具體的事我想我們外交部門都在積極的在協助畢竟他是我們的國會議員那去做參訪我想我們外交部門都會來積極協助不僅是省委員一些被這個成都22條"},{"start":5614.19,"end":5637.49,"text":"這個已經鎖定的這些對象或是名單裡面的人我們都一樣要保護他們你們也有一個相對的風險控管的名單嘛也就是說可能被對岸列為接下一段下一階段目標的各種中華民國國民的名單有嗎有多少人在裡面啊你們是評估啊跟委員報告齁這個我們說我們國人赴各國去齁"},{"start":5639.461,"end":5660.266,"text":"從結果論來看會配合中共引渡政治犯的國家他應該案例極少極少我跟你講總統昨天出來開了記者會然後現在大家今天在那邊這邊說你竟然是要要求韓國瑜院長表態那重點不在這裡嘛總統出來開記者會講說我們已經把所有相對紅燈危險黃燈危險相對安全的國家我已經做了做了明確的區分"},{"start":5660.734,"end":5676.207,"text":"我們針對接下來中華民國國民哪一些人可能也會遇到這樣的狀況我名單有掌握有做預警這叫安定國人這叫方法結果我們的政府沒有提出任何安定的具體方法然後搞政治表態主委你覺得這樣是最好的方式嗎"},{"start":5677.025,"end":5693.179,"text":"跟委員報告我覺得第一時間國人要團結一心一致對外這個對老共的這個回擊是最有利我們不接受你跨境鎮壓對於我們的恫嚇分化你的具體的做法就是最明確的宣示嘛"},{"start":5693.579,"end":5711.062,"text":"你的這樣的做法出來之後國人我相信大家都會支持也才會團結結果你沒有第一時間端出方法你反而第一時間要大家做政治表態這不叫解決問題這叫消費這個事件我提醒你還有一點時間趕快來處理政治表態不如解決方法好 再來"},{"start":5712.425,"end":5737.999,"text":"最近我們陸委會跟海基會的預算還是有明顯的增加但是我看了一下報章雜誌媒體報導跟相關的新聞露出基本上都是互相校正佔了絕大多數的比例你們現在到底是交流還是對抗各位委員我們一直強調我們要希望交流取代圍堵用對話取代對抗還是我們的政策主軸"},{"start":5738.837,"end":5762.069,"text":"我們對於正常健康有序的良性互動我們都會繼續協處這我們都聽了你報告也講了我們大概書面也看了是你們現在跟海基會有沒有一個明確的分工你們誰上黑臉誰上白臉因為現在局勢不太好這是個客觀事實我們不是扮演黑白臉我們是功能分工功能分工有關於跟民眾的這個服務的案件"},{"start":5763.249,"end":5792.028,"text":"我們跟中國大陸可能進行協商和兩岸交流海基會是我們政府唯一委託的這個中介團體其實上他一年都有30萬件的服務案件我知道你的服務案件我一向不挑剔的這個沒有問題大家都做得很好但問題是這個政治溝通的角色不管是陸委會還是海基會現在也看第一看不出什麼明確分工第二重點是看不出成果如果今天兩岸的管道相對暢通有序今天沈博鑽委員會不會發生"},{"start":5793.189,"end":5820.954,"text":"因為有一個管道在為總體的風險進行降溫但現在是因為局勢不好能了解委員講那個管道我們過去跟對岸的各種溝通聯繫其實我們持續在維持維護著但是中國大陸他基於要我們先接受他的政治前提這個政治前提的框架裡面沒有中華民國生存的空間所以我們不會去答應他的政治前提"},{"start":5821.474,"end":5838.677,"text":"我們每次的民調主流民意也告訴我們不贊成我們接受中共的政治前提去跟中國大陸進行官方互動如果是這樣我今天沒有在談你官方互動是什麼因為中華民國的外交處境本來就很困難兩岸關係也非常複雜所以你手段要靈活所以我才問"},{"start":5839.358,"end":5854.859,"text":"你跟海基會怎麼分工有沒有跑位對不對是因為基於靈活嘛那靈活最後的結果我們都還是要看具體成果嘛那現在具體成果是我沒有講你一定什麼官式的互動或什麼東西你各式各樣的方法都可以但各式各樣的方法要降低兩岸的總體風險嘛"},{"start":5855.94,"end":5882.571,"text":"這當然也不純然是你們的責任啦畢竟這是路線的問題啊但客觀的現實我要在最後的時間我提醒一下邱主委羅秘書長吳董事長也都在聽沒有關係總體的風險升高代表的是雙邊溝通的失靈也代表中國大陸單邊主義的機會會增加他不會再管我們島內在想什麼不會再管我們國民的情感跟立場啦他會搞他自己的政治進程這件事是很危險的"},{"start":5883.371,"end":5897.195,"text":"像沈博洋委員的事情可能會越來越多所以我剛才花時間問你這個清單準備好了沒風險控管好了沒 相關名單準備好了沒國人要看到的是這裡請陸委會 海基會都好好加油 謝謝好 謝謝牛委員好 謝謝牛許廷委員接下來我們請陳雪生委員發言"},{"start":5914.568,"end":5942.157,"text":"好 謝謝趙委是不是請邱主委請邱主委 謝謝陳委員好邱主委好 上個禮拜大概陸委會召集的金門馬祖地區這個旅遊局有去說明了也就是公務人員赴大陸金門馬祖的公務人員赴大陸很像回來去的時候要報備回來也要填寫報告有沒有這回事"},{"start":5943.702,"end":5970.578,"text":"跟委員報告這個是我們依照現行的法律規範訂出來的這些機制就是公務人員復入當然要請假好 我簡單講現在兩岸人民關係條例裡面有規定十一指等還有警監三階還有社密人員 政務人員"},{"start":5971.81,"end":5981.515,"text":"這些人員是需要的那11日以下的公務員是不需要的這裡面有講的不在此限規定很清楚我看過一遍"},{"start":5982.341,"end":6010.995,"text":"各位把資料也提供給我了對 跟委員報告我們分三大塊是不是這樣第一大塊就是涉密人員 政務人員還有政務官 縣市首長這個還有這些人一般的公務人員不要嗎沒有 要經過機關的同意完成請假程序第九條裡面沒有有 我們內政部有訂我們內政部的一些要點你給我的兩岸關係條例第九條裡面沒有"},{"start":6012.075,"end":6031.83,"text":"兩岸條例有授權內政部有定職法沒有啊我們是不是給委員你已經給我資料了嘛資料裡面並沒有這一條有給委員了那你們的兩岸人民關係條例跟內政部定的有抵觸的話誰的大誰的小"},{"start":6032.21,"end":6056.794,"text":"跟委員報告我們是聯安條例授權那內政部來定時事細則那確實他有說一定要經過主管機關的同意就是要完成請假的程序這個就是金門馬祖已經也做過國防部做過B級推演了現在金門地區的兩棲偵察連已經移防到澎湖去了有沒有這回事"},{"start":6062.591,"end":6081.543,"text":"跟委員報告這不在陸委會的權責範圍我們沒辦法回答那現在他們兵推的結果到最後我們目前金門馬祖的兵力大概只有一點點不足以防衛那一共兩岸交戰我請問金門馬祖獨立作戰是適同放棄嗎跟委員報告我想這個"},{"start":6091.977,"end":6120.102,"text":"我們當然是從陸委會的政策當然是維護不管是台海的和平穩定或者是金馬的這些安全我們都不希望兩岸兵戎相向我也希望啦希望歸希望啦現在我們已經在朝著戰爭的方向在走我想兩岸勢必一戰我目前的看法是這樣因為什麼呢因為你步入烏克蘭的後塵嘛"},{"start":6121.343,"end":6150.315,"text":"你不停的加強你的軍備嘛那對岸呢軍備你說實在話你買再多的軍備他要吃你的話你也跑不掉啦那麼今天的陸委會的工作報告大概是這樣滾動檢討兩岸法令健康有序交流第二個是強化兩岸的交流機構機構交流第三個是依法行政落實兩岸的"},{"start":6151.23,"end":6179.134,"text":"單一身份制度也就是最近你們在推動的戶籍單一制度第四是大陸配偶家庭保障第五海基會的服務效能第六就是風險的評估我想請問陸委會跟海基會目前在做什麼事情就做這個事嗎當然那是有關於交流的風險不可能健康有序交流啦剛才你也講了嘛他有他的想法你有你的想法"},{"start":6180.366,"end":6200.152,"text":"兩個是平行線啦不可能有所交集啦那麼這樣下去的話您大陸委員會跟海基會目前在幹什麼跟委員會報告我們現在的跟對岸的文教或者各種專業交流商務人士的玩法還是非常的你跟哪個單位交流過"},{"start":6202.128,"end":6219.702,"text":"您說官方嗎我們願意啊是他們設置障礙啊你說健康有序嗎不可能這樣兩個是平行線嘛一直在做備戰的準備啦他如果沒有設立政治前提的障礙我們很願意溝通備戰就是戰爭的開始"},{"start":6224.008,"end":6245.696,"text":"我們遭遇到中共對我們的軍機建造台我們要自我防衛啊現在已經這樣了 你防衛吧 你防衛的了嗎是不是 你是一個小學生 我是一個大學生我今天要打你 我打你就是打你嘛 還有什麼理由的咧我今天就要揍你一頓嘛 有理由嗎 沒有理由嘛"},{"start":6247.099,"end":6276.42,"text":"各位報告我們面對中共複合性的施壓你講的話四平八穩啦軍機艦老台我們不可能沒有作為啊你懂了沒有好我想問你最近馬祖也發生一些船長這個有關勾那個漁網的事情嘛把我們那個中華二號啊海嵐弄斷了他們人怎麼回去還有五個人還沒回去人球丟在馬祖移民署的管轄"},{"start":6278.168,"end":6298.073,"text":"監獄裡面 牢裡面還有五個人這些人準備怎麼回去我已經跟對岸溝通現在發了一個單一的一次性的大通證已經出來了那你們會不會朝著這個管道沒關係你們走不動那我們明天來走嘛 是不是"},{"start":6299.085,"end":6319.682,"text":"是 委員謝謝喔 那個五個人是戴遣法只要完成司法程序戴遣法多久了 已經幾年了這個我們必須要尊重司法你不要戴遣法啦 對不對中華民國不見了 你還在那邊戴遣法他就不要你遣法啦他直接來把你人帶走啦所以我們尊重司法程序我們如果有機會我們就會來遣法聽不下去了啦"},{"start":6321.533,"end":6350.857,"text":"他們是黨領導槍啊還什麼司法不司法的委員我們是文明法治的國家跟他們不一樣你沒有錯嘛今天你是小學生我是大學生我要打你就是要打你我要罵你就是罵你你不准我回嘴你回嘴我就揍你就這麼回事啊現在整個世界局勢環境的現實就是這樣嘛你說怎麼辦呢好我因為時間關係我繼續問你現在我們人民可以去大陸我們老百姓每個去大陸"},{"start":6351.857,"end":6368.873,"text":"要去四川去重慶哪裡 今天晚上買了機票坐飛機走了嘛大陸人民不能過來 什麼意思跟委員報告沒有團進團出嘛 是不是不是 我們正在透過觀光小兩會跟他們談談了沒有談了沒有只能到金門馬祖嗎只能到金門馬祖 台灣能不能進來"},{"start":6375.1,"end":6382.747,"text":"台灣還是需要透過小兩會的溝通這健康有序我答得比你快啦不是健康有序要先溝通完再進來好溝通多久了我們從二月給他喊什麼二月今年二月給他喊溝通三年多了不再看啦疫情以後不准人家進來他們想來欸你們不准他來啊"},{"start":6398.82,"end":6408.805,"text":"我們希望觀光小兩會能夠先溝通再讓他們來把過去的觀光亂象說停就停的問題把解決掉各位跟誰溝通跟誰溝通我們跟對岸的海旅會那個對岸的觀光小兩會海旅會有溝通嗎海基會有溝通嗎不是是台旅會跟對岸觀光小兩會有沒有溝通有 目前我們就我們目前就給他喊希望他趕快積極的回應你的喊已經擺在那裡躺在那裡我知道啦"},{"start":6429.383,"end":6451.213,"text":"他連看都不看你一眼啦你擺在那裡幹什麼囉你要跟他健康有序要我中華民國跟你中華人民共和國對談他不跟你談嘛如果他們那麼粗暴那麼野蠻還讓他們來觀光而完全沒有設防你讓他來觀光嘛連觀光都不允許現在只有商務可以來啊我們"},{"start":6453.479,"end":6481.138,"text":"如果在國家安全的前提下我們恢復兩岸觀光交流也是我們的政策你慢慢國家安全嘛等到濱林沉下你還在那邊講那麼安全還在講國家安全這個沒有不健康嘛是不是你起碼把人先給他放進來嘛我們的人可以去他們人不可以來這什麼話只能到金門馬祖還有金門那邊已經"},{"start":6482.003,"end":6503.287,"text":"以後已經一百多萬人到那邊觀光了馬祖兩三千個人你們視而不見了管還是不管我們當然也很關切為什麼到金門的人比較穩定到馬祖的人比較少那當然跟這個馬祖的觀光資源的形態有關那我們也希望我很不想很不想很不想砍你的預算說真的"},{"start":6510.014,"end":6537.021,"text":"但是你們兩百多個人放在那邊幹什麼就是那些健康有序啊對牛談情啊無病呻吟就是搞這些事情嗎是不是跟委員報告我們同仁我想耳朵非常的保護國人保護台灣守護台灣我們同仁盡了大量努力大家看得到他你也很努力大家都很努力那呼口號嘛"},{"start":6538.181,"end":6546.707,"text":"中華民國萬歲萬萬歲在呼口號我們職責所在依法行政同仁們都進了很多的 做了很多重要的工作主委你今天這個齁 我說真的還有海基會海基會預算要不要刪今天的反對黨不跟你玩什麼統三百分之三喔一條一條來衛生紙絕對不刪 汽油不刪 租賃費不刪"},{"start":6566.243,"end":6594.254,"text":"你說水電不夠絕對不會刪你的刪你什麼你們這些人養在那邊幹什麼養那麼多人幹什麼你說預算不應該凍結嗎應該要凍結嘛你說該不該凍結起碼凍結你一半還對你客氣把人凍結以後怎麼辦這些都是編制內的人員你們海基會海協會本身的編制組織你們的功能架構不用檢討嗎所以請你回去啊"},{"start":6595.185,"end":6604.625,"text":"五月末回 拜託您不要再繼續健康有序交流好不好健康有序交流啊 非常的不健康而且不務實際 好不好"},{"start":6606.674,"end":6624.794,"text":"跟委員報告 陸委會的工作同仁都非常的努力都在守護台灣 捍衛我們國家主權安全我知道很努力啊 沒有功能嘛你不能說這個是沒功能這樣對我們同仁不公平啊我長不出苗來 因為我不懂"},{"start":6626.876,"end":6651.988,"text":"面對中共對於我們複合性的施壓步步進逼我們不能沒有作為守護台灣是我們最重要的事情你這靠老美嘛還什麼作為呢今天講白了一點講穿了就這麼回事嘛老美敢你把你賣掉的時候你就完了啦是不是這樣我們今天已經在逐漸步入備戰你要告訴全國的民眾喔我們已經在備戰我們在東引"},{"start":6653.682,"end":6682.233,"text":"馬祖東引地區部署的雄風飛彈 天空飛彈雄二飛彈是針對海峽的天空飛彈針對空中的一旦低級的時候 我們整個東引島毀滅你有沒有幫我們東引想一想要不要給老百姓戰爭風險的補償費我覺得我們整個政府要去想一想最先死的 死的最快的就是我們馬祖的東引你有想一想嗎"},{"start":6683.479,"end":6710.338,"text":"所以兩岸的領導人喔真的好好去思考一下不要身臨圖騰好不好陸委會做你的事情我不會砍你的預算啦基於你跟我兩個人的交情喔我不會砍你的預算但你不能長此以往下去啊你不能每天在那邊健康有序要幹什麼你替陸委會整個維護我我很了解啦我弟弟本身也在陸委會服務過嘛但是不可以這樣一直下去啦好不好謝謝啦謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":6713.629,"end":6718.552,"text":"好謝謝陳雪仙委員接下來我們請賴世寶委員發言謝謝主席請各位先進有請陸委會的邱主委請邱主委賴委員好你好我簡單幾個問題想請教"},{"start":6741.95,"end":6759.856,"text":"這個有關於沈伯陽被通緝的事情啊兩岸的事情不是賴總統要出面嗎或者你要想一想反制啊怎麼賴給韓國瑜呢這很奇怪這邏輯非常奇怪啊這個憲法明明規定兩岸的事務是總統管的啊怎麼會"},{"start":6763.336,"end":6781.591,"text":"我請教你如果會有沒有反制的一些方案類似這個事情跟委員報告對於中共的跨境鎮壓不管是對沈博洋還是對於我們國軍官兵還是對於服務在我們政府體系的這種恫嚇"},{"start":6784.472,"end":6803.219,"text":"第一個要展現我們國人團結一心反擊這個中共的立場第二個我們也呼籲我們還是要強調問題的本質他就是來恫嚇跟分化我們所以我們要跟國人說他沒有管轄權我們國人不受到"},{"start":6804.319,"end":6828.301,"text":"任何的拘束所以我們國人都是安全的但是出國去旅遊這部分我們會跟外交部門來合作避免風險對於赴陸港澳我們也呼籲國人要審慎評估他的安全性畢竟我們從去年到現在已經有233個個案因為刑方不明因為"},{"start":6829.343,"end":6831.325,"text":"你處理兩岸是不是依據中華民國憲法及兩岸人民關係條例來處理"},{"start":6849.464,"end":6862.67,"text":"這是我們的基本的法律原則那這樣子的話是不是同意兩岸我們主權互不成立 主不承認治權互不否認這句話你同意不同意跟委員報告是當然我們彼此的主權互不隸屬主權互不承認嘛我說主權互不承認治權互不否認這句話你同意嗎"},{"start":6880.031,"end":6901.167,"text":"但是他開始否認了你同意嗎我只是強調我們中華民國是個主權國家台灣從來沒有被中華人民共和國統治過兩岸互不承認是客觀現實跟台海現狀朝野就很多共識的基礎主權兩岸就是主權互不承認治權互不否認你同意嗎"},{"start":6910.137,"end":6933.485,"text":"我是不同意因為在2019年元月二號習五條他重新定義了這個所謂的九二共識現在他主政他的強制力跟過去這個習以前的這些領導人完全不同那你就主張一邊一果樓是不是"},{"start":6935.322,"end":6944.013,"text":"我們是說中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬如果你主張一邊一國那陸委會可以裁掉啦陸委會可以裁掉啦陸委會的成立宗旨是跟大陸交流啊"},{"start":6951.26,"end":6966.287,"text":"我們願意交流啊但是我不能說我願意跟你交流我中華民國就不存在了但是他現在的一中原則九二共識就是沒有中華民國存在的空間啊委員你也可以去問對岸"},{"start":6967.607,"end":6989.1,"text":"在你們的框架裡面我們有存在的空間嗎請問你喔是陸委會不是國防部啊不是戰爭部啊這個你每天喊打喊殺什麼陸委會主委這樣子做的態度呢你要看一看你們海基會兩位大長官坐在那裡他們也希望交流啊我們希望對等尊嚴跟他們也希望交流"},{"start":6989.54,"end":7004.366,"text":"跟中國大陸進行健康有序的交流你有沒有安排有沒有在努力最少最少讓海基會的董事長或者秘書長跟海協會的會長或者他的秘書長見面有沒有"},{"start":7005.134,"end":7027.267,"text":"跟委員報告我們都在努力突破什麼時候有機會但是中共的僵化思維跟負面作為以目前看起來困難但是我們都在努力突破這是一個很重要的指標是你不方便跟宋濤見面但是吳董事長如果跟江志軍會長如果能見面那兩岸就是很大的突破了對就是功勞一件啊"},{"start":7032.33,"end":7047.402,"text":"我們也呼籲對岸要解放思想 實事求治人家問你 你要不要啊 你也不要啊我們願意啊只要他在對等尊嚴 我們都願意啊我們樂見吳董事長赴陸去做交流啊不這樣子 你看喔 你看喔你現在來講 對我們去大陸我這裡 這個沒有時間講太多了最多的是103年 104年那時候還是馬英九執政"},{"start":7062.165,"end":7084.365,"text":"到500多萬現在呢來台的旅客只有剩100多萬然後呢我們去大陸的原來500多萬現在剩兩三百萬大概250萬左右所以可見的在民進黨執政底下兩岸是緊縮的兩岸是緊張的我們都知道兩岸要和平一方面我們備戰"},{"start":7086.178,"end":7100.689,"text":"被戰我們絕對支持讓台灣有一定的國防能力沒有人反對但是要避戰的避戰就看你結果你現在不是你本來是論華記你這個陸委會應該是一個論華記讓兩岸交流可以避戰結果你現在把自己戰狼化沒有 跟委員報告其實最"},{"start":7109.46,"end":7123.691,"text":"需要交流的是陸委會的主張我們需要有健康有序的交流沒有統戰的交流我們也在積極推動兩岸人流的良性互動的交流現在陸委會的觀點裡面我們看了半天你就把交流定為統戰怎麼啪 怎麼啪這樣不是 我們要降低統戰的這種對台灣的傷害如果你按照你的講法所有的交流都是統戰沒有 沒有這回事我舉例 比如說"},{"start":7136.502,"end":7154.822,"text":"為什麼你讓大陸的學者沒有辦法來台灣你禁止他來台灣跟委員報告這就是天大的冤枉是中國大陸的機構不同意他們的學者來交流我們對於領安最理性的人我們就希望透過這個"},{"start":7157.344,"end":7182.88,"text":"對準交流你核准他來都是比如說他機票是後天結果明天沒有這回事我們對於正常健康有序的正向交流我們都願意提供必要的協助最後一點現在請問我們去大陸的紙航店有幾點目前原有的5個之外再加上10個目前是15個紙航店最多的時候幾個點最多有50個50幾個"},{"start":7186.277,"end":7202.091,"text":"你可不可以增加一點我們在評估我們也希望最主要是兩岸的人流不多尤其對岸來的人太少因為你不給他來我們願意來是他不願意跟我們努力合作願意來"},{"start":7203.852,"end":7211.238,"text":"我們的人去年去277萬如果加港澳有加402萬他們才來46萬扣掉從第三地的11萬他來不到30萬所以委員"},{"start":7218.823,"end":7222.365,"text":"我們是277萬過去 加港澳有402萬這個難道少嗎 他們不來 這是他們所製造的問題啊很多是你技術不卡關啊 是他們不願意放人來大陸的大學教授很想來 可是都被你卡關"},{"start":7241.255,"end":7260.821,"text":"沒有這絕對不是事實那委員如果有一些卡關的案子你跟我們講是歸咎於我們幾乎都卡關因為你核准都是登機前兩天我們就希望透過兩岸理性的學者能夠到一起來溝通最後一句話陸委會我們兩岸要和平備戰必戰"},{"start":7268.172,"end":7270.393,"text":"我們一起努力不要只有備戰不必戰我們現在備戰是理應因為主委會把自己戰狼化這是一個很大的問題我們不是戰狼我們是務實面對"},{"start":7285.021,"end":7300.741,"text":"你可以看你剛才從回答很多委員都是說我這個那個這個那個框框條條框框太多你就是把自己沾染化如果把自己沾染化真的如果可以拆掉他成立的宗旨就是要兩岸交流"},{"start":7301.601,"end":7326.172,"text":"兩岸交流是最大的宗旨結果現在你要交流設了很多的門檻框框條條沒有門檻那門檻就是要維護我們避免被統戰滲透又來這句話了交流就怕統戰對自己這麼沒有信心我們可以統戰他們他們來看我們的抗議節目都好對不對每天可以罵政府官員他們都羨慕我們統戰他們"},{"start":7330.451,"end":7338.976,"text":"我們統戰他們 怎麼怕被統戰呢奇怪 讓他來我們統戰他們你就丟好 謝謝委員好 謝謝賴思寶委員的諮詢我們接下來請謝龍介委員發言主席 我請董事長跟副董事長"},{"start":7359.565,"end":7362.466,"text":"請吳董事長還有羅文佳副董事長董事長你好市長你好我先請教那個副董事長羅副董事長你就職到現在有去過台六"},{"start":7389.763,"end":7416.583,"text":"目前沒有 九十九十都不滿了 對OK來很可惜 因為那一機會成立的目的當時你加班九十嘛你也沒過嘛但是有透過個人的感受那時候是我們本會的感受正確到"},{"start":7418.029,"end":7419.349,"text":"對話有聯繫嗎有嗎開秘密會議的時候在這不可以說這個應該不是什麼基本上交流是好事但交流本來就有官方"},{"start":7447.349,"end":7469.001,"text":"有正事跟非正事嗎我剛才報告就是我在過去一年當中多方努力希望恢復對話多方努力希望恢復對話就是跟對方恢復嗎對恢復對話"},{"start":7475.204,"end":7503.457,"text":"恢復對話那但是結果沒有對到到現在還沒有結果那就是完全沒有就對了因為這是很可惜的兩岸成立海基會跟陸委會基本上我們就是走和平的路線才會需要這些單位嘛如果是要站的話基本上那你展現出來是要站那基本上"},{"start":7504.493,"end":7525.159,"text":"就不必對話那不必對話就不需要我們這裡的任務單位了很可惜因為我知道本縣理解是你跟副當事長個人都有很多人脈在兩岸之間可以貢獻我為什麼不請主委因為他在這裡說的話他的本人都不敢嘛事實上就不是這樣嘛你起來 好"},{"start":7534.534,"end":7541.957,"text":"它典現出兩岸國防外交就是總統的議題這樣表示立場總統有下令不接觸不談判也不交流這個大大的錯誤嘛交流就可以避免擦槍走火嘛你看是民間的交流嘛民間的交流最好可以到政府跟政府機關政府跟政府機關你釋出審議的交流"},{"start":7565.256,"end":7573.483,"text":"剛剛委員所講的很抱歉無法同意不同意的原因我也很清楚講第一個賴總統在就職演說國慶文告講得非常清楚"},{"start":7591.223,"end":7605.955,"text":"我歡迎跟兩岸對等健康有序交流的承諾永遠不變我願意從觀光和就學兩個具體的作為來展開第一個所以沒有不交流但我們要對等尊嚴健康有序的交流第一個"},{"start":7606.516,"end":7632.266,"text":"第二個目前的狀況是你剛才說為什麼董事長和我沒辦法去按照兩會的協定應該制度性往來海基會董事長也好或我個人也好我們多次的表達我們願意前往在不是任何政治前提下但是現在問題是他要求我們前往這個前提這不可以接受啦這不可以接受啦所以我不懂你的看法還是這樣我們不可以接受他的主張啦我沒叫你接受啊"},{"start":7635.68,"end":7636.641,"text":"我請問你喔你處理這個會都台六 你請問多少"},{"start":7663.84,"end":7667.682,"text":"恢復這個台六席的這個配額國籍的時候有經過施法定署有經過法院申報你開除人家國籍啦國籍法不是陸委會的權責那是內政部的職務那不是都你們辦的嗎那跟我們沒關係你們到現在沒有二三判"},{"start":7693.144,"end":7704.936,"text":"都不是我們這裡所以包括他在這裡說要顛覆我們的政府還是什麼現主席在你這裡還沒有有多少人已經去開除中華民國的國籍委員是說那個有關於有一些個案 陸配"},{"start":7712.677,"end":7737.936,"text":"他被取消我們這邊定居啊或是居留的那個因為我們接到那個很多檢舉案我們就依照這個你搬多少啊搬多少啊有經過書房在訂書嗎上次那個雅雅的他們好像有兩個剝削一個人的"},{"start":7739.298,"end":7742.039,"text":"是戶籍不是國籍我們沒有處理國籍跟委員報告我們是依法我們兩岸條例不管是18條或是大陸人士來台定居留許可辦法相關的條文我們都是用相關的條文依法處理"},{"start":7765.663,"end":7782.455,"text":"而且當事人也有到主任法院主席之前你來拜會的本席是你主席之前四月份來的時候是五月初你看本席說的到你主席之後是羅總統有給你重新的署名就是記者一切的聯絡"},{"start":7783.962,"end":7808.95,"text":"所以做生意一年半以來 大家是適當對待我們所謂我們主管的部分這不用懷疑啦 這就是沒變的嘛但是在立場堅定的情形下 有什麼一點突破就沒有了完全沒去做到這種突破 你做了六一會主委 你有什麼說法"},{"start":7810.219,"end":7830.663,"text":"委員 我們願意不斷地突破包括我們也希望兩岸能夠健康有序的交流我們海基會也希望有機會能夠去探視我們的大陸台商過去十幾年來所有的交流都沒有健康你現在要希望健康的交流過去的交流都沒有健康過去的交流都沒有重點"},{"start":7837.25,"end":7844.273,"text":"所以你現在就是要有健康 有尊嚴 比較要風來嘛我們比較要去嘛你甚至限制我們的人 盡量不要去包括什麼宗教改的 廟徽的就叫你佩服他們要去 要了解風險啦風險 我比你更了解的啦兩方多危險美國和台中說了怎樣 我們更風險都要考慮了嘛 用善意"},{"start":7865.667,"end":7876.231,"text":"可以化解敵意是用敵意 針對敵意當敵意上升的時候就是台灣合力衝擊的時候謝謝你謝謝 委員謝謝徐同學委員接下來請徐欣怡委員發言"},{"start":7895.418,"end":7898.627,"text":"謝謝主席 本席有請邱主委邱主委"},{"start":7903.47,"end":7931.893,"text":"徐委好主委好主委本席刚提早到听到您有回答前面的委员说您这个也很乐见我们的海基会董事长吴董事长去大陆交流那本席很好奇你身为陆委会主委你怎么不率先破冰之旅和平之旅你就率先去大陆交流"},{"start":7932.489,"end":7947.456,"text":"跟委員報告如果是對等尊嚴兩岸有需要人民支持我們當然這是我們職責所在不過截至目前為止中國大陸還是要求我們必須答應他的政治前提那這個前提前提是我們要接受他一個中國原則的九二共識"},{"start":7953.584,"end":7979.912,"text":"在這個框架裡面沒有中華民國存在的空間我們無法答應這種消滅中華民國併吞台灣的政治前提所以你可以過去跟他們反映所以你有提過要過去嗎 沒有你沒有提出過在各式各樣的交流活動他都必須把政治前提放在前頭所以你就去好好跟他談"},{"start":7981.88,"end":8005.04,"text":"對不對 軟硬的話都可以講啊甚至您可以帶沈伯陽委員過去澄清一些誤會也不錯啊 對不對所以我們的陸委會不跟大陸做任何的互動交流這是很奇怪的一件事從我們第一會期這一屆第一會期我們就一直講所以你看大家都覺得陸委會可以裁撤啦"},{"start":8005.8,"end":8033.578,"text":"那你们有讲你现在所做的都是一些台商的事所以本席也觉得那我们陆委会就变成什么台商协助会就好了根本不需要有一个跟各部会同等的位阶的陆委会因为你根本都没有去交流接着这个是刚刚本席听到你回复但我们很希望你可以去你代表我们中华民国台湾我们的尊严"},{"start":8034.622,"end":8056.413,"text":"可以然後去你表達我們嚴正的立場我們都支持你我也認同你啊對等尊嚴但是你都三不政策對不對不接觸不交流完全不互動我們還是要推動這個健康有序的交流讓兩岸能夠和平健康有序的交流請主委你做起"},{"start":8057.942,"end":8084.148,"text":"由你來做 你帶頭來做嘛好不好我們希望這樣 雖然其實陸委會我們這一會期又要省預算了那陸委會我們不知道你所做的事你密切注意我看你的那個報告裡面你做的事情都是paperwork或者是你就是在這邊靜靜的沒有靜靜的我們做了大量的努力對 所以可能陸委會也許可以考慮"},{"start":8084.748,"end":8102.198,"text":"考慮轉型不用成為部會它就是一個台商協助會或是什麼我們也有需要協助我們台商但是如果您願意跨出這個兩岸破冰兩岸和平之旅那我們全力支持您是 謝謝委員那再來就是我們"},{"start":8103.479,"end":8121.954,"text":"看到有一個聯合報的最新民調八成八的民眾認為兩岸溝通管道不可中斷這當然也是呼應剛剛前面我所請教您的那民進黨執政至今呢我們看到兩岸的很多的溝通顯然無效我們現在具體的來看"},{"start":8123.215,"end":8144.314,"text":"過去簽的26項協議慘不忍睹 非常的慘不忍睹首先在司法互助的方面我們看到雪崩式下跌我方要求遣返2076人結果陸方只送回512人我們的政府功能不髒"},{"start":8146.095,"end":8175.095,"text":"再來ECFA的經貿急速降溫整個雙雙崩跌再來觀光交流也是大幅下滑入客不來我們國內的產業受創我想主委你應該很清楚我們的老街一條一條的沒落一條一條的蕭條還有我們國人本來很多的紀念品對旅客的紀念品店"},{"start":8176.547,"end":8200.064,"text":"一間一間關起來現在都幾乎關掉了然後老街也都帶動不了整個的觀光這個都跟陸委會的這個業務影響很大所以這一個部分主委這個數據也在在顯示您真的需要率先再去開啟兩岸的交流可以嗎"},{"start":8200.782,"end":8220.158,"text":"跟委員報告兩岸的目前的交流的障礙都不是我們造成的都是別人專門檢討別人剛剛委員所說的兩岸這個目前剩下的協議有26項我也很專業但是我們陸委會我們的同仁幾乎定期在每一項的協議都在盤點都在精進"},{"start":8223.52,"end":8239.006,"text":"對岸就是整個就是冰凍嘛沒有 那是對岸所造成的這個片面的這個脅迫我想大家都很清楚啦那再來就還有一點時間本席一定要特別針對我們不管陸委會再怎麼不作為"},{"start":8240.529,"end":8254.06,"text":"我們現在面臨的我們的民眾人流的安全還有我們產業的這個所受到的威脅這兩塊本席也要特別在今天特別提出來"},{"start":8255.199,"end":8280.337,"text":"我们人生两岸交流啊人身安全官方不交流那我们民间倒是交流的等于我们的民众过去是蛮频繁的不管是这个有一些我们企业派驻的人员或是我们这个观光的我想您也很清楚所以人身安全是我们最重要也是我们最重视的那我想请教您"},{"start":8281.478,"end":8297.348,"text":"對於我們人流安全風險上升陸委會對國人旅遊或是企業派駐人員的法律與保險協助有沒有強化到足以應付他們複合式的一些脅迫的程度"},{"start":8297.768,"end":8315.164,"text":"是委員提到這個很重要我們也在關注請你簡答我時間不多我們從去年到現在有233件這種人身安全的風險那我們也持續透過既有的管道跟對岸去反映必須要落實踐行他們的司法人權我這邊很好你講到重點現在這邊打"},{"start":8318.447,"end":8346.912,"text":"打住你的管道就是發傳真開記者會我們現在陸委會呢人道救援這個我們看到就是只留於發傳真跟開記者會我們還是協調各部會在進行跟中國大陸的共同打擊犯罪與司法互助合作的機制底下在跟他們講有共打你們的這個在互動上你們的共打機制好像沒有很好"},{"start":8347.613,"end":8351.129,"text":"因為本席聽到很多我們國人遭遇一些"},{"start":8352.247,"end":8376.884,"text":"一種您所說的一些類似的處境我聽到的是他們拜託陸委會海基會不要介入不要開記者會好像會越幫越忙這個行為就表示對陸委會最直接的投下反對票跟委員報告所以陸委會不是一個文明法治的國家就好像懲徒22條我們國人啊 負入遭到的人身風險"},{"start":8377.825,"end":8391.811,"text":"我們就是要不斷的透過機制我們相關的部會也在積極努力當中好啦 人道救援絕對是我們國家最基本的任務也是我們人民最後的期盼我們政府不能只有發傳真根沒有 我們積極的來協助最後 最後有關產業的部分"},{"start":8396.093,"end":8412.626,"text":"主委你有沒有發現大陸塑化中堅原料像尼龍纖維 人造絲等產品長期利用他們的超額產能對我國基礎工業產生了低價傾銷的威脅那針對這個部分你們有沒有量化"},{"start":8414.063,"end":8438.85,"text":"對台灣基礎工業的傾銷風險有沒有量化是委員你講這個非常重要中國大陸在這種傳統產業我說的都很重要你們有沒有做有有有這個非常嚴重過度的傾銷我們台灣造成我們台灣傳統產業很大的壓力像我們的台塑利利這些企業是大家應該知道我們如果一旦崩潰會造成多少數萬家庭生計的風險是我們了解你們電話指標有做嗎"},{"start":8443.775,"end":8463.703,"text":"是我們這方面我們跟我們的經濟部門還有產業各單位都有積極的在協處避免受到中國大陸的一定要跟相關單位你們儘快展開調查才可以而且要儘快的做這個速度你們所做的速度就是我們產業的生命線所以這個部分你今天講不出一個"},{"start":8468.806,"end":8474.21,"text":"一個重點 我們各部門都已經展開行動對於中國大陸 你有沒有量化指標是不是我們在提相關的資料給委員請在會後提相關資料給我們 好不好"},{"start":8483.456,"end":8501.088,"text":"最後我要講守護傳統產業就是守護我們台灣的就業與在地經濟的命脈是主委拜託陸委會要有所作為是謝謝委員我們全力以赴謝謝許新委員接下來我們請蘇喬惠委員發言"},{"start":8513.083,"end":8516.025,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請邱主委邱主委好我剛剛在這裡也是聽到您這個備詢的這樣的狀況我認為是這樣子就是說其實剛剛諸位委員其實一直在質疑您的就是他們認為陸委會是不是是一種對中國是完全採取不交流不接觸這樣的態度"},{"start":8542.703,"end":8546.605,"text":"你在在的否認嘛 對不對沒有錯吧 剛剛是這樣嘛那我認為是這樣子因為其實我剛剛聽到這整個狀況應該是說你認為現在我們並沒有拒絕和中國互動往來完全是因為中國給我們設了一個前提你可以再說一次這個前提是什麼嗎是 跟委員報告"},{"start":8568.423,"end":8589.848,"text":"為什麼不去的中國社的前提我們當然希望跟中國大陸進行良性互動對共同來促進台海的和平穩定跟繁榮這個對我們來講兩岸都有所所以他的前提但是他的前提我們只要跟他官方互動他一定要接受他一中原則或是九二共識所以中華民國就不存在了對你剛剛就這樣說嘛是"},{"start":8592.709,"end":8596.751,"text":"對 可是我剛剛聽到這個整個大家的質詢內容狀況它會是一個這樣子一個不斷的循環就像中國你為什麼不去跟中國交流因為中國說要跟他交流之前必須先承認一中也就是中華民國就消滅了然後他就繼續會告訴你說那你就是大張旗鼓的維持尊嚴的去到他那裡跟他談我是中華民國我要尊嚴"},{"start":8616.701,"end":8626.75,"text":"那可是問題是中國就是要先你不承認中華民國你已經中華民國不存在你世界上只有一個中華人民共和國他才要讓你上去啊那你就是去那上面再跟他說這個我們中華民國存在主委看起來你現在面臨的是一個這樣的狀況那你覺得你要怎樣因為如果這個論述你沒有對應這個論述的真正的話我看你的預算可能會守不住喔是"},{"start":8642.863,"end":8656.678,"text":"委員講得很好委員有提到有些委員把不交流的一些責任都歸諸在我們政府身上這不公平的事實上委員講得好就是說製造交流的障礙是"},{"start":8658.36,"end":8685.535,"text":"對岸 陸方造成的我們都願意在對等尊嚴進行健康有序的交流這是我們的政策剛剛我們羅密蘇蘭也講到如果說在這個原則下我們應該在觀光客在學生的交流方面來啟動共同追求一個和平共榮的目標這也就是我們賴總統所接觸的兩岸政策但是是對岸設置的這個片面的障礙"},{"start":8686.315,"end":8696.501,"text":"使我們沒有辦法進行這種正常的交流而把沒辦法正常進行的這個交流歸入於現在我們的政府這不公平全世界都認為這是很不公平的事我認為其實現在台灣社會的主流意見在經過這麼多的震盪之後其實中華民國中華民國台灣台灣就是我們現在最大的一個共識"},{"start":8709.468,"end":8718.913,"text":"我們是一個主權獨立的國家我們在這裡有我們自己的制度這個是我們絕大多數人都認同的共識就是在這裡所以剛剛在說的你後面到底有沒有觀光客要來啊這個兩岸的產業能不能夠互動啊等等等等其實就是要建立在我們可以自己把自己的國家保護好的狀況之下嘛"},{"start":8732.501,"end":8747.575,"text":"所以中國讓我們過去的前提就是要先自己承認自己不存在不存在在這個世界上這件事情一定要讓更多的國人了解所有後面的屏幕都是跟前面這個他要求你先承認你自己不存在才有後面"},{"start":8750.53,"end":8755.816,"text":"這件事情我覺得應該要讓社會更了解所以比如說好了我們今天其實我本來要問你的是這個這個中國央視的發布剛剛也有很多人提到的這個起底台獨沈伯陽的這支紀錄片好而且呢"},{"start":8765.566,"end":8783.319,"text":"在這部紀錄片裡面其實它最重要的兩個事情第一件事情它就是中國官方要對沈伯陽委員展開全球抓捕全球的抓捕喔就是不是只有在中國境內到你到任何一個地方他都要抓你第二個它最重要的就是在片尾的時候給你加上一句"},{"start":8784.659,"end":8803.726,"text":"鬆手吧 否則下一個就是你主委 你認為這支影片所提到的中國可以有權利對 在境外抓捕沈博洋委員嗎抓捕我們中華民國的立法委員沈博洋委員嗎這是我的第一個問題第二個 你認為中國做這一支紀錄片 所謂的紀錄片但事實上根本就不是事實的 偽紀錄片這樣的態度 他到底是想要做什麼"},{"start":8812.554,"end":8832.706,"text":"跟委員報告他最主要目的是恫嚇跟分化我們 下一個就是你其實我們每個人都有可能變成什麼樣因為我們閱讀過審讀22條你如果不支持中國的對台政策的話你很可能就是被法律是違反他們的審讀22條他就可以對你立案調查他就可以"},{"start":8836.867,"end":8851.08,"text":"終身追訴然後長臂管轄無眼佛界甚至可以判處死刑缺席審判沒收財產連累家人一連串的這種跨境鎮壓這是國人要凝聚共識"},{"start":8852.101,"end":8860.525,"text":"來反對 來譴責這種行為所以很顯然的這是一支新戰的影片嘛新戰的影片他是在製造恐懼啊你這些作為可能都是犯罪所以我可以全球抓捕你而且就抓你回中國這是他要達到的效果好 那我們就剛剛問的第一個問題其實是主委 中國有這種權利嗎中國可以有這樣的境外嗎中國可以透過國際刑警組織和跨境司法合作來抓捕沈伯陽委員嗎主委他手說這樣嗎"},{"start":8878.732,"end":8900.58,"text":"他發布這個影片反而是我們進行國際溝通一個很好的題材中國大陸在國際社會要抓捕政治犯讓中國的形象讓中國他不僅是對我們跨境鎮壓他也可能對全世界各國展開這種跨境鎮壓我們要把這個台灣的事情讓國際社會都了解"},{"start":8901.46,"end":8914.267,"text":"很好這是第一個讓國際社會更了解中國的無理性但是我們如果從法律層面上面來講以實體上面來講罪名的狀況影片中間提到的一切其實都沒有具體的證據啊通通沒有具體的證據只是一直強調傷害中國人的感情"},{"start":8917.588,"end":8922.411,"text":"請問這是什麼樣的罪名程序問題來講的話中國能不能夠做這些境外的逮捕追緝其實取決於中國跟各國的司法相關的引渡條例但是引渡條例不能夠針對政治犯所以中國常常都是會用什麼洗錢等等給你安一些這些罪名他才能進行這樣做引渡"},{"start":8939.102,"end":8957.007,"text":"所以不管是從實體或者是程序中國其實都不能夠像影片所述的直接就是全球追捕沈伯陽委員所以到最後他用一個不存在的事實來做一個不存在的罪名做一個不可能的行為其實最重要他只是想要告訴你收手吧"},{"start":8957.947,"end":8980.427,"text":"下一個可能就是你就是這樣的新戰作用所以我認為其實陸委會最重要的事情比起剛剛的這樣說我個人認為其實最重要的事情是我們要想辦法讓台灣我們所有的國民能夠了解自己的處境我們在跟中國交往的困境其實就是一 它要你先承認你的國家不存在"},{"start":8981.525,"end":8984.807,"text":"才有機會去談判才有機會會進行官方的對話就是這麼簡單嘛第二 它就是要你怕要你對它不能講任何的壞話否則就對你進行全球追捕 終身追溯我本人也是啦我本人也是在名單上面的一個啦所以這個"},{"start":9002.148,"end":9021.32,"text":"主委我是期待這次的我們的預算審查的時候就這個部分能夠有更剛剛有些委員說要有質化的量化的指標那你就把這些量化的指標到底有多少人來申請多少人是因為他們不來的等等的如果可以提出一些更具體的數字我覺得可以更促進國人了解我們現在真實的困境謝謝委員我們全力以赴也感謝委員剛剛對這個案子的非常"},{"start":9032.16,"end":9042.088,"text":"這個周前的這種說明我們就一起加油謝謝蘇巧惠委員的質詢接下來請吳佩奕委員發言謝謝主席我請陸委會主委請就主委委員好"},{"start":9060.243,"end":9068.545,"text":"主委好這個中國的重慶公安局說要對沈博洋委員我們中華民國立法委員沈博洋進行立案偵查立案調查中國的央視發布影片說這個沈博洋說要威脅全球抓捕沈博洋剛剛蘇曉慧委員我認為他指出的非常清楚明確這原來啊"},{"start":9086.38,"end":9105.938,"text":"不是法律戰這是新戰這個完全是漁業這個文明法治的底線他就如同一個天朝律令一樣我想這也是跨國鎮壓最好的案例我們會在國際上他的目的呢中國就是要用政府國家的力量來恐嚇威脅外國的公民而這件事情"},{"start":9111.503,"end":9115.126,"text":"他可能不只發生在沈博洋身上可能發生在我們台灣每一位公民身上而他不只發生在沈博洋身上他正在發生在其他國家包括國會議員身上所以中國的這個新戰他的威脅恐嚇是針對全世界民主國家在發動攻擊的"},{"start":9133.319,"end":9151.987,"text":"這個新戰荒謬到什麼程度呢央視發布影片之外現在中國還有一個網站上面說這個沈伯陽的沈伯陽因為是台獨份子所以呢他的兒子要去瑞士申請學校被拒絕沈伯陽因為是台獨份子所以沈伯陽的女兒要去英國念學校也被拒絕"},{"start":9153.683,"end":9163.93,"text":"哇 拜託一下聽說中國的情報工作做得很整密請來看加開臨時會我們在立法院我跟沈伯陽委員黃婕委員的直播沈伯陽沒有兒子啊沈伯陽的女兒還沒念小學啊而且就讀在就是我們台北市的學校這麼荒謬的言論竟然可以透過中國的網站鋪天蓋地的在造謠就是在呈現什麼我要讓其他的人心裡害怕如果你們敢跟沈伯陽一樣"},{"start":9183.544,"end":9187.011,"text":"捍衛中華民國主權的話哇 你的兒子出國念書可能都會被拒絕荒謬至極那我要講的是不只針對台灣"},{"start":9192.564,"end":9199.029,"text":"這個美國自由自家2月發布報告去年一整年中國是全世界進行跨國鎮壓最大宗的國家全世界160件中國就大宗英國國會的人權委員會也指出了去年跨境鎮壓的案件增加了48%非常多近五成而中國就是全世界跨境鎮壓主要威脅的來源中國畫面到什麼程度在日本中國住大阪的"},{"start":9222.384,"end":9226.107,"text":"總理是薛健因為高市早苗首相在發表言論挺台言論所以呢這個薛健啊他竟然大言不慚非常失禮的說要斬首日本首相他使用什麼文字他說那種骯髒的頭就應該毫不猶豫斬掉這是中國的外交官在日本對日本的首相"},{"start":9250.447,"end":9259.414,"text":"大言不慚非常失禮的行為日本的國會議員說這個已經是在恐嚇了甚至有議員要求政府應該立刻把他遣除出境"},{"start":9260.697,"end":9276.249,"text":"那麼在紐西蘭中國駐紐西蘭的大使王小龍因為紐西蘭的國會議員出席我們台灣中華民國的國慶酒會竟然在紐西蘭的中國大使擔感寫信給多名的紐西蘭國會議員訓斥他們說他們不准參加台灣國慶"},{"start":9280.742,"end":9283.203,"text":"紐西蘭的外交部部長公開說這個中國大使毫無民主觀念所以呢對於中國現在威脅沈伯陽說要全球抓捕這種跨境鎮壓的威脅以及非常多不禮貌的言論跟行為陸委會你們的態度是什麼是我們的態度其實跟委員很多的主張都是一致的"},{"start":9303.752,"end":9331.223,"text":"我們認為這是對台灣的一個認知作戰對台灣的心理戰特別是在恫嚇跟分化我們台灣所以面對這樣我們首先就是不分朝野國人要團結一致 一致對外譴責這種跨境鎮壓同時對於被涉及到的不管是我們的國軍官兵不管是我們的政務官或者是我們的守護台灣的人我們都應該來幫忙他 保護他 協助他"},{"start":9333.644,"end":9361.414,"text":"不要配合中共對他的施壓這個都是非常重要那當然我們如何的做好國際的這個說明中國的這個對外這個跨境鎮壓特別是針對我們國人的部分我們要把這個實力跟國際來說明像剛剛委員提了好幾個例子包括紐西蘭日本的例子這個目前就是國際社會非常重視的案子"},{"start":9362.174,"end":9373.298,"text":"沒有錯中國現在已經是世界級的流氓全球的Troublemaker台灣是努力在全世界跟民主盟友做朋友所以這條路我們要繼續走下去而國內的團結更加重要中國對台灣最嚴重的威脅就是2005年試圖用反分裂法來恐嚇威脅台灣當時台灣人是上百萬人上街頭我那年我是大學生我也去上街了"},{"start":9388.624,"end":9401.008,"text":"因為我們要向國際社會表現台灣團結的決心因為我們內部分裂互相吵架這是中國最想看到的所以我在這裡要再次譴責台灣最大在野黨的主席鄭麗文竟然在國內去祭拜共匪敵我不分連自己國民黨黨人都看不下去了我希望我們要持續的來團結展現出台灣守護民主在世界上面我們是優良的模範生的決心謝謝主委謝謝委員"},{"start":9419.463,"end":9424.808,"text":"謝謝吳佩儀委員接下來請林倩琦委員發言好謝謝主席我們的黃昭偉請陸委會邱主委邱主委"},{"start":9449.824,"end":9466.771,"text":"主委好本席今天要來為一些陳情案來請命今天第一個主題本席要針對限制公務員復路跟大陸來台的一個交流被你們限制的一個寒產效應來做一個討論"},{"start":9469.229,"end":9493.023,"text":"本席認為這樣這個狀況有點像依法行政結果呢引發了一些寒蟬效應的一個老民的措施行政院在9月22號通過了公務人員違法違規附錄建議懲戒懲處的一個原則那麼適用對像闊級各級學校的公務員那從公立大學的校長和院長主任到國中小的主任"},{"start":9493.743,"end":9517.118,"text":"組長只要兼行政職的那都需要事先申請那返台後還要再詳述事由與行程那麼為師情節重大一次還要被記過一次要記兩個大過那這樣一個你們這樣一個規定那還導致不僅是私立學校或等於是學校各界大家不是那麼清楚的"},{"start":9517.478,"end":9535.154,"text":"或者是呢本來就有這樣一個規劃的結果搞到大家因為月英效應結果都不敢去那麼你們說這樣子是依法行政可是整個社會的觀感會感覺到是依忠誠察核之名在實行思想審查那本席這邊提出一個數據監察院報告就說過去十年影響到這個"},{"start":9541.52,"end":9549.95,"text":"犯規的這個公務員大概差不多300多人但是呢 這占所有的人大概99%其實都是正常的可是這麼少數人卻影響到讓大家都要為這些工業來負擔我覺得這樣子對民眾真的是很"},{"start":9560.021,"end":9579.162,"text":"如果你們真的要防避應該就個案懲處的適當而不是來以集體的預防為由結果整個只要想要去的公教人員都產生了不忠誠的一個標誌所以呢本席這邊要提出來的是尤其是今年那個在教師節左右我們都"},{"start":9580.391,"end":9592.679,"text":"敬佩孔子嘛那我們很多不管是宗教或者是文化上我們的教師節是因為孔子這樣一個概念而來的但是呢你們的這個因為你們這樣一個規定導致在教師節不僅是有一些要赴港澳去參加儒家文化論壇的或者是孔子紀念典禮的很多人因為你們這個懲戒的生肖日期在即而紛紛婉拒行程"},{"start":9606.667,"end":9616.23,"text":"那麼還有就是本來常年跟我們有一些交流的甚至像孔子像要來台灣的或者是要來台灣參與孔子相關的這樣一個祭典的人也紛紛被你們這個很多的門檻而限制結果導致有一些活動就辦不成"},{"start":9623.993,"end":9645.574,"text":"所以你們這樣的氛圍不僅是讓很多人心生畏懼那也讓我們在文化跟學術的一個交流上日益凍結好 政治上可能有很多的問題可是你不覺得透過民間的文化交流大家多一些對話 相互理解嗎所以這樣的政策真的強化了國安嗎還是讓很單純的想要交流的教育工作者"},{"start":9645.954,"end":9666.078,"text":"成為被懷疑的對象本席要請教的是陸委會是不是曾評估這樣一個懲處的原則對學術教育文化實質的影響甚至本席剛才所講的月運效應第二個部分是如果到大陸去參加研討會或宗教活動也沒有什麼政治行為是不是有一些比較彈性的審查機制"},{"start":9668.519,"end":9693.551,"text":"第三個部分是針對大家對於那個相關政策有違反法律的保留原則之處是不是可以請你們把政策的評估提供給本席要不然本席經常在民間都聽到陸委會的規定就搞得我們不敢去或是我們打算要去呢結果因為這個規定然後後續會有一些影響或者是大家有可能會犯規或犯法因為大部分的人沒時間每天在那邊管你的法規啦"},{"start":9695.936,"end":9707.965,"text":"大部分的人都是良民所以大家因為這樣子的你們的政策而導致大家的這樣心生恐懼你們真的是令人感覺很老民委員我們可以回答你嗎謝謝委員委員對這個問題有充分的理解但是說我們進行這個對我們的軍公教同仁俘虜"},{"start":9718.992,"end":9729.878,"text":"設置這個不當的障礙是真的沒有我們也沒有增加任何的法律只是在落實法律本席真的是有被反應你知道嗎我知道 但是可見過去落實這個法律確實有一段差距就是要依法請假要讓服務機關同意我們像委員任教的大學像我們的系所院長他們都比較教育人員十二指等"},{"start":9746.667,"end":9752.875,"text":"我們學校其實都還很認真的遵守你們的法律結果規定到每個人到最後通通都不敢去這樣沒有 只要完成了這個請假的程序讓這個主管機關能夠完成許可的話就沒有問題"},{"start":9763.849,"end":9773.982,"text":"所以我們在這個過程當中強力宣導一下因為大家都聽到你們這個政策我們還警示了很多暴露的人一些風險我要跟委員報告其實我們這個法醫也在保護我們的軍公教朋友不要被"},{"start":9780.35,"end":9798.593,"text":"中國大陸有心人士的滲透 拉攏乃至於變成在地協力者甚至變成間諜而不自知我們要跟我們的軍工教朋友宣導這個事情也是在保護他們我覺得你後面這個部分可能可以多講而不是在前面的那種規定上讓大家不是所從這也是我們的配套措施"},{"start":9800.315,"end":9820.371,"text":"還有就是大陸來這邊要跟我們的一些交流比如說像孔子像等等這些就是他們要進來那我們在反對或者是門檻真的很高那常常你們在那個時間限制上或者是實時的活動上讓大家都趕不及啊您剛剛講跟孔子有關的文化交流被阻礙像我們就沒有"},{"start":9821.172,"end":9834.426,"text":"接觸我們處長說沒有收到這種個案如果有這種事情我們只要是健康有趣的交流我們都會來協助唯有這個個案有人跟你陳情遇到障礙你也可以告訴我們我們來協助他所以本席這邊要講的是你們的障礙很高結果導致我們沒有障礙很高我們這是合理的"},{"start":9842.955,"end":9844.696,"text":"就隔幾家程序就好了就變成從時間去阻礙到本來應該辦的期程本席再給你一個實質上本席這邊所聽到的本席在五月份參加世界壯年賽得獎的當然很高興可是本席也希望全世界包括中國大陸的好手都能夠來"},{"start":9863.604,"end":9886.281,"text":"但是本席就有聽到就是你們因為那個申請的程序常常在你們在前一天給人家通知或者是門檻很高別人不能來結果通知的時候運動員不是說你這樣馬上今天跟他通知他明天就能夠來你知道這其實也影響到一些人的參賽我知道委員你應該去問新北市或是台北市對這個案子就壯年運動我們是請全力來協助他們"},{"start":9889.744,"end":9896.269,"text":"但是同樣的這個一個申請的程序本席這邊聽到很多你們在政策上或許有這樣一個規定只要有提了報名我們經過我們必要的審查我們都會盡快的放棄同時也是過去式但是本席這邊要提醒的就是說你們在政策規定上然後配套的技術性的這個內容"},{"start":9914.501,"end":9938.679,"text":"可不可以變明一點會所以要去大陸你們搞得大家都很害怕說好像去了會犯法沒有這回事大陸要來的呢我們只是提醒他的風險保護他自己大陸要來的他們也好多門檻就搞到時間上也來不及這個是不是你們在執行的時候可以了解一下而且注意一下你們在這個政策上然後實際的運作的技術上是不是能夠變明一點好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":9942.592,"end":9960.249,"text":"謝謝林建祺委員的發言接下來我們請葉元之委發言謝主席麻煩請入委會主委請求主委"},{"start":9965.046,"end":9978.264,"text":"葉委員好主委好 先跟主委請教一下現在按照陸委會的規定有很多教職公立的教職要去大陸事先要許可然後事後回來也要詳述他行程的狀況對不對"},{"start":9980.718,"end":10003.535,"text":"跟委員 他只要符合請假程序當然學校主管要兼任行政職我知道其中是有包括國中小的教學組長跟文書組長也都一樣對不對是 只要有兼任行政職因為他們就是被以前針對公務機關大概公務人員是檢證實質等以上才需要報備"},{"start":10005.816,"end":10031.114,"text":"跟委員報告我們的法律講得很清楚除了這個11指等以上的要內政部許可沒有涉密的這個11指等以下的基層公務人員都要經過這個內政部他有一個行作業要點必須要由主管機關來同意才能付入同意是準價還是說因為他是去大陸所以才要許可"},{"start":10031.534,"end":10053.446,"text":"要附入同意附入同意以前就要嗎以前這是現行規定現行規定都要對一直都要是那為什麼最近忽然間特別要再拿出來強調跟委員報告是這樣因為過去我們各機關沒有在管在落實它有些機關重視有些機關落實那有機關它就比較忽視也沒有重視那"},{"start":10054.827,"end":10073.607,"text":"所以我們被監察院糾正我覺得這個部分因為可能之前就如你所講的啦大家沒有很重視原因是什麼因為這個規定很無聊嘛你看以前是規定說11值等以上要去嘛那11值等以下也要報告那你具體把它講出來像我看到連什麼國中小教學組長"},{"start":10074.807,"end":10100.863,"text":"他們的職等校長國小校長才九職等啊組長可能八職等啊他們去也都要經過許可那這種許可因為他們還是我們許可意義在哪裡嗎那種感覺上好像好像他很怕他們去洩密還是就是把人家當很不尊重嘛如果他是一個老師他可能就去玩而已啊然後等一下要暑假然後對啊有一些風景不錯要去看一看然後"},{"start":10101.403,"end":10114.876,"text":"又要許可什麼又很怕說被點名做記號乾脆不要去對岸了那就去其他國家我覺得這個規定很無聊如果說是規定版就在那邊只是之前沒有執行那也反映出這個規定很無聊嘛大家才覺得不需要執行"},{"start":10115.492,"end":10143.435,"text":"那既然這個事情被浮出檯面大家討論我甚至覺得說這個應該要放寬放在兩岸條例第九條這個應該是要這應該是要放寬否則的話連老師這種可能八子等組長都要被約束去玩一下都要被說要許我我覺得太嚴格了這個是可以考慮放寬然後第二個請教一下陸委會明年預算是"},{"start":10144.284,"end":10147.712,"text":"本來今年是8億多嘛明年要變到10億4千多萬增加2億是吧"},{"start":10148.72,"end":10174.436,"text":"跟委員報告因為今年的預算被立法院刪的幅度是陸委會創會以來最大的我們但也感謝我們後續的這個解凍預算跟追加減沒有啦我問你是不是嘛我跟你確定客觀事實而已啦差距很大是因為刪得太厲害了差距很大但是你實際上去檢視陸委會的內容我發現很多都跟抗中保台有關"},{"start":10175.496,"end":10200.332,"text":"譬如說要增進青少年嗜毒大陸的智能要強化大陸人事來台的管制反制認知作戰現在陸委會幾乎都在考抗中保台比較多等於我們大概10億裡面很大一部分都在搞抗中保台有一些部分我覺得你的業務已經跟其他單位都有一點重複譬如說你說增進青少年嗜毒大陸智能這本來教育部說要做"},{"start":10201.004,"end":10225.68,"text":"他要編四讀大陸的教材那這不就跟你的一樣嗎是 他有時候會請我們協助我們很願意跟他們一起配合再來就是陸委會出國像去年出國七次有五次去美國去美國是要幹嘛你們去美國跟委員報告我們去美國次數沒那麼多像我們這兩年我們是帶一年去一次我不是說你啦 我說整個陸委會"},{"start":10227.592,"end":10252.354,"text":"根據決算報告出國七次有五次去美國跟委員報告國際社會對我們台海的風險對中國大陸對於我們怎麼處理兩岸問題他們都高度興趣所以經常到陸委會來做參訪王委員會邀我們去做回訪所以陸委會現在主要去美國也是在了解兩岸局勢多艱困"},{"start":10253.888,"end":10280.888,"text":"大陸對我們的威脅啊陸委會現在都在做這些事情就對了我們爭取美方對於我們的支持是非常重要的我們現在陸委會啊你看那個預算的分配啊跟之前陸委會啊成立的目的啊已經完全不一樣名稱都叫陸委會做的事情已經完全不一樣就是現在是主要以抗中保台國安為主啊那既然是這樣我問你一個時事的問題因為最近大家都很痛恨那個詐騙集團嘛那太子集團"},{"start":10282.234,"end":10300.059,"text":"最近也引爆話題那其中這兩天我看到有國安人士對媒體放話就說他可能是大陸統戰的一部分因為中國大陸援助柬埔寨兩億多美金裡面有一億七千萬是由太子集團付給柬埔寨那這部分陸委會的掌握是怎樣"},{"start":10301.001,"end":10326.568,"text":"根文報告我有問過同仁對這個案子跟陸委會有沒有關包括是不是有大陸籍的人員入境我們有協助這個案子我們會裡面都沒有就是說毫無所惜沒有透過兩岸人權我剛剛是講說他被國安人士認為是同戰因為他協助中國大陸去"},{"start":10327.714,"end":10339.791,"text":"去對柬埔寨外交補助2億多其中1億多是經過太子集團這國安人士講的媒體的報導這兩天應該因為你們現在都在搞抗中保台對於這樣的訊息應該就算你們業務之一了"},{"start":10340.461,"end":10366.25,"text":"所以你的掌握是怎樣我們對這個案子完全沒掌握我沒有關注但是跟我們關係不大因為我問了同仁現在陸委會的定位真的很奇怪真的是非常奇怪就是說以前大家認為陸委會是負責兩岸關係兩岸關係當然越好越正常越好陸委會的業績應該是越好"},{"start":10367.695,"end":10378.978,"text":"現在陸委會這一塊完全放掉都在委員不是這樣我們還是希望兩岸能夠交流你希望我們也是保護你是用祈禱的沒有我們用具體的作為我剛剛講從講預算講你現在業務的重點然後講到你們做的事情其實看得出來"},{"start":10385.29,"end":10413.89,"text":"現在沒有在做什麼希望兩岸關係好的事情主要都是在防止中共有認知作戰啊制毒大陸制人都在抗中保台嘛那既然你都要搞抗中保台你就變成國安的一部分我們對中共對於我們的各種複合性的施壓我們不能視而不見所以我說現在這個就是你的重點嘛可是如果說這是你的重點那對於國人比較關心的比如說詐騙集團假設是中共跟中共有關那這部分你們應該要很早就要掌握啊因為是你的主要業務之一啊"},{"start":10414.417,"end":10432.066,"text":"然後如果你們早點掌握體會國安單位那國人就不會搞不好就很多人不用受害啊因為因為他總共被扣45億啊對不對那所以你如果你陸委會正式你說我要轉型成的抗中保台的一線作戰單位那也是民進黨政府也是尊重你們嗎"},{"start":10432.745,"end":10461.414,"text":"但是那你要做一些民眾關心的事啊委員你講的很重要就是被詐騙我們兩岸都有詐騙的問題要解決所以就是在共同打擊犯罪這方面我們跟對岸共同來解決詐騙的問題我們還是持續透過管道再跟對岸來呼籲一起查辦犯罪我覺得做得不夠啦至少我剛剛講那個案例你就說你沒掌握嗎"},{"start":10462.564,"end":10477.402,"text":"就是那個個案太子集團那就最近大家最關心的案例啊你都沒有講過但是跟陸委會的職權是目前是沒有相關可能是外交部比較陸委會的職權都是你不斷的延伸的你擴張的對不對"},{"start":10478.922,"end":10498.334,"text":"什麼增進這個都是你延伸的嘛很多都是你延伸出來所以你現在變成抗中保台單位啊以前我們對陸委會認知也不是啊沒有我們是守護台灣我們也維護台海的平穩定盤那你既然你現在想要做這一塊那你就要可能國人關心的東西你也要幫忙負擔一點嘛是是好謝謝"},{"start":10502.157,"end":10519.323,"text":"謝謝葉元之委員的資訊接下來我們請羅明財委員羅明財委員羅明財委員不在現在請羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員不在林德福委員林德福委員林德福委員不在現在請翁曉琳委員發言好謝謝主席我們有請邱主委請邱主委"},{"start":10535.393,"end":10554.711,"text":"公務員好是 邱主委好我們知道賴慶德總統他在114年3月的時候提出賴17條那麼說現在到中國大陸去旅遊的風險越來越高而且還引用陸委會的資料稱說失聯 被留置 被盤查被關押的案件上升"},{"start":10555.912,"end":10570.387,"text":"但是我们看看你们今年10月份陆委会的发言人在10月份的记者会公布的数字说现在大概失联的有61人遭留置盘查19人被限制人身自由132人合计是212人"},{"start":10575.231,"end":10587.602,"text":"在根据被限制自由的132人当中其中诈骗案件因为诈骗案件是有而被留置限制自由大概有93人高达70%"},{"start":10589.463,"end":10618.577,"text":"那其他的可能还有些刑事案件可能因为逃债或者是要逃避一些司法一些追溯所以到大陆去的然后当然还有少数的一些宗教问题的室友然后被留置盘查那其中大概有9个人是一贯道的道青然后真正因为可能政治国案事件的政治性案件的其实也只有一人这个情况很严重吗"},{"start":10619.673,"end":10628.459,"text":"跟委員報告委員站是9月底我們有一個10月底的那個人數更是增加了20幾位總共達到233我現在是根據你們10月份的記者會10月記者會的數字這個數字每個月都增加20個然後今年的數字是去年的三倍"},{"start":10637.546,"end":10646.51,"text":"所以你增加20個很多嗎?限制自由嗎?還是說是整體?都有 包括失聯的 刑方不明的所以總統統是增加多少?10月份的時候是增加多少?這個是他講的詐騙案件 是不是這樣?這是他歸納的"},{"start":10653.453,"end":10665.981,"text":"但是是不是真的是詐騙案件我們要攤開司法這有沒有相關的一些其他的刑事案件所以你們認為說大陸那邊他們會亂逮這個詐騙犯是嗎會把真的所謂的政治性的人物把他當成詐騙犯去抓起來嗎我們希望這些案子坦白說我想很多的台灣的老百姓會很高興這些詐騙犯是被大陸那邊先把他先扣留下來限制他的自由不會回到台灣國內來詐騙"},{"start":10683.833,"end":10709.656,"text":"对你们很多的这个这都是你们自己提供的数据是不是诈骗案件你们会不晓得吗我现在要谈的是说就你们现在不断的在谈到大陆去有多危险多危险那真正可能会因为政治性问题因为他的政治思想等等可能跟大陆那里有所不同的会被盘查会被滞留的可能也就只有一个人而已"},{"start":10711.082,"end":10726.584,"text":"被盤查留置詢問的也許就十幾二十個人請問邱主委你知道我們現在台灣同胞我們到美國海關入境可能會被盤查留置的人數有多少嗎"},{"start":10729.136,"end":10752.523,"text":"是国外的我们没有这个数字是我建议之后外交部应该提供相关统计数据我们国人到其他国家入境时候被海关盘查的人数有多少我告诉你肯定是高过19位到美国海关会被留下来这个留置盘查询问的绝对是远远超过20个人"},{"start":10754.185,"end":10764.65,"text":"所以我們現在要講說現在到大陸去好危險好危險然後陸委會呢就做了一大堆的什麼登錄系統登錄系統大家登錄進去之後那請問陸委會有什麼作為嗎跟委員你們看到這些數字之後你們的作為是什麼"},{"start":10770.45,"end":10789.233,"text":"是 我们当然鼓励我们民众附路啊能够加入我们的动态登录系统我现在不是讲登录系统而是登录之后真正被限制自由真正被留置盘查失联的那你们有什么作为我们政府有什么作为我们现在司法互助等于是"},{"start":10789.673,"end":10817.081,"text":"断掉吗没有我们司法互助仍然在依照既有的这个沟通机制在沟通讨论这些问题我在司法法治委员会我非常清楚我们现在司法互助就算是有沟通但是在真的引渡回来的人有多少位非常非常少啊那么委会在这方面有做了些什么努力吗有希望把我们这些限制自由的或失联的人然后希望能够透过什么机制让他们回来吗"},{"start":10817.611,"end":10836.564,"text":"至少我們在那裡限制我們人身自由或是失聯的我們希望每個個案對岸都能夠跟我們配合讓我們的家屬知道也讓我們可以對他給予司法方面的協助就是說你們這個大陸的人身安全的風險是不是越來越高"},{"start":10837.805,"end":10857.381,"text":"这个是我们根据也是你们的网站上面海基会协处台商经贸纠纷案件的处理统计表从98年当时是最高人数是353人一直到现在从110年近5年来我们看到那个人身安全的风险是越来越低可是你们却说是越来越高"},{"start":10859.195,"end":10882.933,"text":"我们再来看有关于宗教的部分宗教交流风险也是实际上现在可能因为宗教原因被限制自由的人数也不过13人可是我们两岸在过去这一年宗教交流的总人次是16244人所以被限制的比例也不过就是千分之八"},{"start":10883.934,"end":10899.746,"text":"我们如果说在扣掉可能1万到道歉的9人他限制的比例是百分千分之二非常低那你要告诉我们大家说宗教所有国人妇禄的交流风险都非常高这是事实吗"},{"start":10900.466,"end":10921.393,"text":"跟委員報告我們就算是一個人我們都很關注特別是因為宗教的因素特別是一貫道包括最近也有衍生到其他的基督教的教派他們都被下令不能從事傳教的事情那麼對於一貫道的人他們更是用中共的刑法三百條"},{"start":10923.774,"end":10937.387,"text":"這個來判處這個都是我們非常關注的這些人道問題謝謝您的回答我想陸委會不要只會關注這不是你們如果只會關注我們每個人都可以關注任何部會都可以關注你陸委會最重要職責是什麼我們要減少國人"},{"start":10940.169,"end":10942.39,"text":"然後讓身在那邊可能被限制自由被留置盤查的這些國人能夠讓他們回來可是你們現在完全做不到我最後要再講的就是陸委會沒有錯你們有責任要揭露風險但是你們不能製造恐慌"},{"start":10956.067,"end":10972.655,"text":"安全是建立在真相 風險是不能夠靠想像你們現在有沒有針對附入的失聯個案有建立聯繫窗口各位報告我們都有我們跟國人的風險的提醒也是基於客觀的數字"},{"start":10974.563,"end":10992.239,"text":"剛剛說了每個月增加20幾個我們增加一個就很嚴重何況每個月都增加20幾個尤其是今年以來我想在這件事情上面如果您認為增加一個兩個就很嚴重的話我建議你們在行政院匯報上面一定要提醒外交部"},{"start":10992.779,"end":11011.156,"text":"我们国人在其他国家的海关被留置的情形是不是远比去大陆要严重很多相关数据全部要提供出来好让所有的民众知道到底到大陆去旅游去交流是不是危险还是说这个基本上只是你陆委会打的认知作战没有"},{"start":11011.556,"end":11028.885,"text":"跟委員報告不是正常我們都會協助我們每個個案的家庭謝謝翁曉琳委員的質詢謝謝邱主委接下來我們請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在高金素梅委員高金素梅委員高金素梅委員不在下面請李博義委員發言有請邱主委請邱主委"},{"start":11043.345,"end":11062.691,"text":"李委好主委我想要講一下就是台灣跟歐洲的狀況那台灣面臨的狀況那講一下韌性那另外講一下戰爭什麼是戰爭那臨日攻擊裡面有一句名言戰爭早就開始了那有什麼戰呢"},{"start":11064.745,"end":11086.172,"text":"以社群方面來講的話有認知作戰我等一下舉抖音為例那以法律方面來講的話聯合國的2758決議那世界各國包含美國包含歐洲議會包含加拿大對2758號的決議的反應是什麼那包含我們立法院針對"},{"start":11088.545,"end":11114.883,"text":"台湾的国会针对国会议员在言论上被中国恐吓这个恐吓战这个内容是什么我觉得我们都必须要来跟国人来说明清楚主委你认同吗我刚刚讲的这些各种形态的这些作战其实中国对台工作人员主委大概有多少人"},{"start":11117.308,"end":11143.894,"text":"從事統戰的對台工作人員我們過去有做一個除了解放軍之外中國大陸從他條條塊塊各機關就要涉及台灣人的事務如果負責有統戰任務我們有學者推估有60萬人次我上一次的資訊是40到60萬沒有錯如果60萬人次的話平均是一個人來負責四個台灣人到五個台灣人就可以了對不對是這麼說"},{"start":11146.584,"end":11171.361,"text":"那很可怕那所以他不會只有在軍事上他還有法律上我先從2758號決議裡面那中國單方面擴大解釋聯合國2758號決議的內容那各世界各國的國會做了什麼事情歐洲議會是說要求歐盟的外交及經濟要嚇阻中國而且認為這個是過度的解讀"},{"start":11174.98,"end":11176.643,"text":"加拿大眾議會也在2024年11月通過眾議院將繼續支持台灣有意參加國際組織"},{"start":11185.322,"end":11199.136,"text":"那在英國的下議會也就是英國的國會在2024年11月也對未確立中華人民共和國對台主權並且否定北京對聯大2758號的決議的扭曲那美國聯邦眾議會也強調2758號決議並未處理台灣及台灣人民在聯合國的代表權的問題 來"},{"start":11210.299,"end":11238.311,"text":"世界各國的國會那國會當然這是一個這些都是民主國家的國會都對2758號有這個解釋而且是針對中國的片面的解釋那我們的立法院我們做不到因為從去年開始立法院藍白多數我們一直提議要通過這一個對中國錯誤解讀的決議文我們希望有一個台灣版本但是我們的立法院做不到相同的"},{"start":11240.547,"end":11267.986,"text":"賴總統要建議韓國瑜院長國會議員被中共通緝發布全球通緝國會議長應該有個態度吧做不到來 主委是 更委員報告我想中共的跨國鎮壓不管是針對我們國家的公務人員或者是我們國軍官兵還是沈伯陽委員"},{"start":11268.919,"end":11296.826,"text":"他這個就是針對台灣集體的一種脅迫也就是說他企圖透過跨國鎮壓來對台灣進行恫嚇跟分化那我們反而要團結在一起一致對外我們反而要我相信國人會團結在一起讓我們更有韌性來對抗他們要更有韌性來對抗他們但是我們自己立法院沒有辦法做成多數的決議這裡我在我表示非常的遺憾那接下來我還要講"},{"start":11297.745,"end":11324.721,"text":"中國國民黨主席他去參拜吳石就是當時在國民政府的將領他來到台灣在1950年被槍決但是他是用白色恐怖的名義去祭拜他其實當時有很多因為國民黨政權他想要抓的一些知識分子"},{"start":11325.677,"end":11335.163,"text":"他把它一概而論並到這裡面來同時在TikTok在抖音那在或者是臉書的reels"},{"start":11335.905,"end":11363.858,"text":"也出現了大量的這個當初的包含這些中國間諜等等的這一些非常感人的故事其實大量出現在這些短片裡面的其實在這一次中國國民黨的選舉當主席的選舉裡面我相信被抖音影響的程度還是蠻高的那我希望陸委會這個相關的機關也要有相關的這些研究跟一些想法"},{"start":11364.81,"end":11384.223,"text":"那其實從這些不管是臉書Meta其實他的前執行長在民視的社群裡面那也對於中國的言論的控管跟台灣的用戶的管控其實都有提出一些指控現在還沒有被證實但是我相信我們這些臉書的流量包含更嚴重的TikTok的這些演算法"},{"start":11385.095,"end":11413.039,"text":"嚴重影響 嚴重想要引導就是認知作戰的部分那我想陸委會在極少的資源底下我們還是要對民眾來做出這一些提醒是 我們會全力的來盡陸委會的能量來做社會提醒包括您剛剛提到錄製APP包括中國大陸的小紅書包括像新加坡的TikTok或是抖音"},{"start":11413.519,"end":11438.496,"text":"那這些可能都有竊取我們各自的疑慮其實我覺得竊取各自這是個人必須要很注意的一點之外內容對 內容它可能會用這個管道來混淆我們國內的團結製造我們的分裂甚至用來借選介入我們自由民主憲政的運作所以會帶來國安的風險"},{"start":11440.376,"end":11456.904,"text":"那這個部分呢我想我們跟各部會都在積極演繹我們有沒有能力來做這個反制我想我們最近都在跟各部會討論我們不能只說你不要看你這個內容這可能會竊取你的個資等等我們要有能力來"},{"start":11458.523,"end":11483.433,"text":"反制這些大量的認知作戰這個認知作戰透過中資的APP來擴大對台灣人心的混淆製造我們的矛盾影響我們的自由民主的生活方式這一點非常嚴重所以這個部分相關部門正在研討積極的防範措施包括"},{"start":11484.633,"end":11502.301,"text":"來立法來規範這就是我們努力的方向回到我剛開頭的那句話戰爭早就開始了不管是社群戰 認知戰 心理戰 法律戰戰爭早就開始了全民必須要有韌性來防衛是謝謝謝謝謝謝委員謝謝李博義召委的諮詢來我們請黃建斌召委 謝謝"},{"start":11517.522,"end":11520.623,"text":"謝謝主席我們有請我們陸委會的邱主委來請邱主委黃委員好主委好主委本席今天要跟你討論的議題就是目前兩岸的這個關係冰凍之下那許多民眾無奈的心聲那就是兩岸的觀光的議題是"},{"start":11538.772,"end":11560.758,"text":"本席要強調接下來我們要討論的方向不是政治議題是有關產業經濟的問題以及相關從業人員的生計的問題本席也了解主委身為民進黨的政府的內閣有些話不得不說有些話也因為有壓力也沒有辦法說但接下來討論我們希望主委能夠放下我們執政黨的一些意識形態"},{"start":11561.851,"end":11576.483,"text":"我們回歸陸輝主委的一個職責我們一起來思考我們怎麼樣在實務上來做能夠真的來促進兩岸交流同時也幫到我們國內的這些業者那我想東部地區的好山好水"},{"start":11577.074,"end":11594.522,"text":"是全台灣最美麗的淨土過去我們國民黨執政時期的時期每年的那個入客好幾百萬人來到這邊來旅遊其中花東地區更是許多入客的觀光的熱點那帶動我們觀光產業蓬勃發展但是後來隨著疫情的來臨"},{"start":11595.342,"end":11617.212,"text":"然後加上民進黨政府上台之後我們兩岸的關係冰凍我們入客人數呈現這個雪崩式的下降到目前為止還看不到恢復的曙光也沒有看到兩岸之間我們有任何對話的管道根據我們交通部觀光署的統計今年前七個月台灣出境旅遊人數破千萬人次但反觀"},{"start":11618.112,"end":11639.529,"text":"同時起入境遊客只有478萬人次這根本當時在政府喊出1000萬國際旅客來台的目標不但確定退票而且落差很大但我們進一步去分析這個入境的國際旅客以這個來源來說日本的旅客大概是76.6萬港澳地區是72.6萬那韓國是58萬人次"},{"start":11642.651,"end":11647.892,"text":"那對於我們日韓日韓的遊客高居前三名我們一點都不意外但對第二名的這個"},{"start":11649.246,"end":11676.427,"text":"港澳的遊客常常被我們忽略其實他們不但有消費力地緣關係也非常的近加上他也不受到入客觀光旅遊政策的限制因此本席認為針對我們港澳地區的旅客我們政府是值得花更多的心思去吸引他們來台灣來旅遊在我們2010年國民黨執政時期從大陸到花東以及香港到花東的包機旅遊正式啟動"},{"start":11677.548,"end":11706.394,"text":"這樣做有什麼好處因為主要就是說我們台灣主要的機場都在西部我們都在西部那過去港澳遊客來因為可能交通的成本還有時間的考量都主要在西部旅遊那透過包機職場讓入客這些港入澳的遊客能夠降低他的時間成本我想這個對於我們台中許多景點發動的景點對我們來說也有新鮮感也有機會提升來台的這個意願跟這個頻率也帶動更多人潮"},{"start":11707.58,"end":11735.639,"text":"來這邊來旅遊能夠直接帶動我們在地的這個產業那當時的這個包機執行能夠促成就是我們專案的陸委會交通部還有台東縣政府還有其他許多業者共同攜手合作那這幾年台東縣政府也其實不斷透過努力來推動這個國際包機的執行像是越南 馬來西亞 泰國都有因此本席也相信說台東縣政府絕對有非常高的意願來促進港澳包機執行來吸引更多的這個國際的旅客"},{"start":11737.2,"end":11761.298,"text":"我們像是去年12月就重啟這個花蓮香港之岸的班機但是因為也缺乏足夠的這個誘因導致這個不堪虧損明年1月可能就停航了那這個非常可惜那因為這條光是這一條航線它一年的時間大概就創造上億元的這個觀光產值這對我們目前花東的觀光來講是非常重大的一個強勁劑那一直本席具體的建議"},{"start":11762.008,"end":11788.917,"text":"我們針對我們港澳的旅客的包機直航陸委會交通部還有地方政府我們共同來研商我們透過民間協定的方式提供相關的獎勵的機制我們一起恢復這個港澳包機直航花東地區帶動更多的這個國際觀光客來台我想這個不僅僅是能夠促進兩岸關係和緩的一個方式最重要的是可以幫助花東觀光產業"},{"start":11790.519,"end":11795.704,"text":"我們會提供比較完整的報告包括我們最近也跟港方在討論更多的業者能夠對花東投下更多的心力來促成這個港澳的旅客能夠到"},{"start":11815.64,"end":11837.815,"text":"花東有包機剛剛提到的那個香花包機因為客源不足他可能也會影響這個旅客再到台東去所以我們希望把它組建起來另外因為花蓮最近他比較多那個事故那我們也希望不要停可以到台東那這部分我們也在跟"},{"start":11839.076,"end":11854.422,"text":"香港的有關方面還有他們業者特別是旅遊業者還有航空業者能夠把這個眼光投射到南部的台東就是好山好水看能不能更多人能夠去這個台東觀光也看看評估這個香港澳門到台東之間的觀光包機的可能性"},{"start":11861.364,"end":11882.41,"text":"我們最近也都有在跟業者來討論我們希望能促成另外就兩岸觀光的部分不是沒有管道那現在兩岸處理觀光是觀光小兩會我們是台旅會他們是海旅會我們就希望他們能夠溝通針對旅遊安全品質穩定性公平性的議題討論完就來開放這樣對台灣不論是消費者業者對我們整個國家安全社會的這個外部成本的"},{"start":11890.993,"end":11911.829,"text":"整個安排上會比較妥當我們會全力以赴謝謝委員主委這個部分真的要再多請主委多費心台東的產業很單純是農業跟觀光他都需要大量的觀光客進來這邊消費那我們也期待我們主委跟我們其他各部會一起來努力專用地方來合作我們讓台東的這個觀光產業讓花東的觀光產業能夠在"},{"start":11915.236,"end":11928.902,"text":"我們接下來的面對整個國際趨勢能夠有更好的機會來發展那再一次的這邊再拜託主委謝謝主委那也將我們的這個兩個禮拜內將個評估報告送到本席辦公室是謝謝主委謝謝謝謝黃委員謝謝謝謝黃建斌召委我們請吳祺銘委員"},{"start":11944.434,"end":11949.739,"text":"好 謝謝召委 我們與會同仁請我們陸委會我們的邱主委請邱主委主委好 主委好 主委我看今天大家都是關心兩岸的觀光的問題那本席這邊有觀光署的資料"},{"start":11964.741,"end":11989.854,"text":"我們在7月份光是出境的人口成長到1087萬人次出國然後進來入境的才有435萬那嫌疏真的有過大因為我們出去旅遊的人數跟進來都不成比例那我看我們那個小三通小三通"},{"start":11991.161,"end":12010.851,"text":"就是七月份36.5萬人次那雖然是成長但是他畢竟過來的只是在金門跟馬祖那這個你在入境台灣的人數還是相對的減少那是不是未來有沒有希望說未來開放入客人來台灣這樣才能平衡我們的出入境"},{"start":12018.1,"end":12024.696,"text":"的平衡點讓台灣的觀光產業能帶動起來這是我們陸委會要去研究"},{"start":12025.259,"end":12053.791,"text":"是跟委員報告我們都有跟包括觀光組跟相關的部會在討論這個兩岸是不是透過觀光小兩會的溝通來讓更多的中國大陸的旅客到台灣來跟委員報告我們的政策是這樣我們歡迎入客來台的政策沒有改變我們也是希望能夠透過觀光小兩會討論完儘速恢復兩岸的觀光的交流"},{"start":12054.771,"end":12075.174,"text":"我們希望藉由這次開放的機會把過去入客來台的一些可能的亂象還有對業者沒有保障的說停就停 說斷就斷業者血本無歸還有光光一條龍的現象這個對於光光的公平性也不"},{"start":12076.135,"end":12093.001,"text":"另外對於觀光的安全兩岸旅遊的安全跟品質我們希望透過這個能夠小兩會溝通再來開放這樣對台灣最能夠有保障我要跟委員報告我們也曾經要做民調在上個月有做民調也有73%的民眾支持政府目前我們先透過觀光小兩會先溝通再來開放的做法這樣最能夠很穩健"},{"start":12106.187,"end":12124.102,"text":"在這個之前我們操之在我的部分我們一方面讓其他在第三國第三地的大陸籍人士能夠透過我們外港到我們台灣來那像今年的人數就比疫情之前還要多那包括這個"},{"start":12126.585,"end":12136.881,"text":"從金門馬祖進來的這些旅客我們也在優化相關的措施那這些操作在我部分之外呢我們希望中國大陸能夠"},{"start":12138.98,"end":12144.565,"text":"對於我們提出來的這個觀光小兩會的協商能夠重視至少可以回復我們透過溝通再來開放入客來台我想這個對兩岸都是有比較好的畢竟兩岸已經很多年沒有接觸我們如何讓"},{"start":12159.276,"end":12171.188,"text":"觀光的旅遊能夠更熟悉彼此對於急難救助需要幫忙的人能夠啟動建立相關的機制都是需要由觀光小兩會來討論以上"},{"start":12173.953,"end":12198.645,"text":"好 主委真的你也是很用心但是我們還是要想出辦法只要不涉及統戰的話是不是大陸也能組團就開放的幅度把它拉大因為這樣才能平衡我們整個觀光的產業因為我們也不要限制說因為有很多宗教的交流體育的交流也有很多只要不涉及我們的政治不涉及他們的統戰"},{"start":12199.73,"end":12204.453,"text":"那我們這應該是我們還鼓勵他們才對啊是委員講的很好委員講除了觀光之外有很多的專業交流團各式各樣的商務人士我們都只要是沒有統戰的經過我們輔導的我們都積極的來協助他們設計一套機制嘛然後你審核的速度也要快等到幾天了你才說這個不行那個不行這樣影響他們的行程影響他們"},{"start":12229.168,"end":12236.292,"text":"一些大家都是旅遊業嘛那旅遊業他們的新生應該你也要廣納旅遊業他們的新生來做總和嘛只要不涉及統戰不涉及我們的政治我們都是放開手吧讓我們的產業帶動起來這才是我們的根本嘛我們跟海基會也跟旅遊這個業的這些各個團體我們經常都跟他們座談一起討論"},{"start":12257.402,"end":12266.533,"text":"其實絕大部分的旅遊業者也都支持政府目前的做法我們會持續努力謝謝委員最主要是我們這個餅要把它做大然後本市還關心就是我們這個電商平台電商平台現在我們是會做租溫的問題吧我們的疫情的問題那很多的"},{"start":12277.728,"end":12299.651,"text":"平台他們所包裹進來的很多都是我們要管制的有很多有弱品的產產因為我們還曾經查獲這一點是不孝的業者我們該下架就要下架一定要跟他們作為整個統籌讓我們台灣這個疫情能早路過去"},{"start":12300.655,"end":12315.951,"text":"是委員講得很對不過我要跟委員報告有關陸資電商平台我們政府在政策上還沒有開放現在來的他都是透過跟中國的這個電商平台自行購買那我們相關單位也在攔阻這些"},{"start":12316.631,"end":12328.977,"text":"委員說擔心像非洲豬瘟的這個商品到台灣來那這部分進一步的歸管這些從大陸來的這些商品目前相關的部會都在積極的嚴格查處當中大陸那個淘寶他們很多平台電商台灣人還是很多在購買"},{"start":12338.682,"end":12362.278,"text":"他們是跟中國淘寶買我們沒有同意他來這邊合法但是還是很多的商品過來台灣你弱品的話你還是要去管制因為非洲豬瘟我看理科大家都很自愛那我們是從包裹這一邊來管制應該會比較好是 相關部會都有在進行了好的 謝謝謝謝吳委員謝謝吳齊平委員的質詢謝謝"},{"start":12371.821,"end":12371.841,"text":"好"},{"start":12378.512,"end":12406.646,"text":"現在登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員 林學忠 黃婕 林楚茵 黃宏威 高晶素梅委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於週內以書面答覆並複製本會本日的會議到此結束現在休息 我們明天繼續開會"}]}},{"id":"165286","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165286","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe377009b2cc75caa5d906ee7c1e9a76e5aa983a90274432617244ffa8fba475bcd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"11:47:01 - 11:53:44","影片長度":"00:06:43","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:47:01+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:53:44+08:00","duration":403,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.4697187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.152218750000001,"end":7.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.952843750000003,"end":14.239718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.64846875,"end":18.188468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.30221875,"end":21.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.563468750000002,"end":22.407218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.63034375,"end":26.035343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.65971875,"end":28.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.63409375,"end":36.143468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.59909375,"end":139.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.085968750000006,"end":53.423468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.29784375000001,"end":102.39471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.84471875000001,"end":111.89534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.85034375,"end":130.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.78971875000002,"end":141.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.79784375,"end":188.64284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.46409375000002,"end":144.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.53096875,"end":148.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.23346875000001,"end":195.00471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.59534375,"end":198.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.61596875,"end":201.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.87284375000002,"end":226.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.65534375000001,"end":216.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.10096875000002,"end":261.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.10721875000002,"end":241.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.11096875,"end":244.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.22221875,"end":262.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.26409375000003,"end":266.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.67721875,"end":266.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.25096875,"end":266.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.38596875,"end":267.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.51659375,"end":276.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.37596875,"end":277.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.82721875000004,"end":282.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.31596875,"end":291.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.64784375,"end":300.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.14846875,"end":308.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.53971875,"end":309.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.12596875,"end":312.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.23534375,"end":316.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.65659375,"end":320.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.02721875000003,"end":325.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.80284375,"end":326.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.34284375000004,"end":332.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.43471875,"end":333.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.10534375000003,"end":336.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.97409375,"end":336.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.15971875,"end":383.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.42971875,"end":338.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.17471875,"end":349.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.15346875,"end":377.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.30909375000005,"end":380.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.46471875000003,"end":392.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.44221875000005,"end":395.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.71596875,"end":396.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.22221875,"end":399.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.61409375000005,"end":400.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.11596875000004,"end":402.44909375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":19.564,"end":22.266,"text":"謝謝主席主席有請彭主委請彭主委"},{"start":25.626,"end":53.244,"text":"委員好主委好 主委我特別看了您之前的幾個公開談話尤其是在9月6號有關於這個談到保險金融因應高齡化社會的四個大改變當中其實我非常有感啦我想今天在場的許多人面對我們接下來下一個世代不只是剛剛委員提到的什麼打炸啦我認為人口的問題其實是蠻重要的"},{"start":53.664,"end":68.808,"text":"那麼過去當然台灣都說我們因為生育率的關係有所謂的人口問題但是事實上我們可能也正在迎接的是下一波的人口紅利也就是其實我們這些所謂比較有資歷的年長者他其實重新回到社會的可能性是高的而且非常有可能就像過去電影講的高年級實習生他們不一定真的是實習生而是創造社會的第二春"},{"start":83.072,"end":103.877,"text":"那麼您特別提到就是說因應這個高齡化的社會思維要做改變但是本席現在提出來的這個問題我想它是一直存在於銀行之間的一個潛規則我剛剛上海之前有先特別google了一下主委今年60可以公佈啦不算秘密那本人也年過50那麼"},{"start":106.358,"end":129.305,"text":"對於我們來說我們現在都講我們是處於在職涯上面的壯年我們現在也不會講說我們是中年了那麼面對這樣的一個狀況的時候那麼在過去我們講普惠金融但接下來的下一步是不是一個可以迎接權齡化社會的權齡金融我想這個之前我們也談過"},{"start":130.365,"end":138.35,"text":"過去我曾經非常肯定就是在普惠金融的時候推出這個以防養老就是提供高齡者可以用自己的不動產"},{"start":139.847,"end":160.342,"text":"去借款給銀行然後未來換取自己的生活費最後有朝一如果他離開了他的房子不一定需要留給子孫可能就是直接把它變成是給銀行去做其他的處理因為我已經有享受到我過去累積下來的財富但是我也必須強調面對高齡化的社會當中現在銀行的貸款"},{"start":165.365,"end":188.312,"text":"他沒有明定但是他其實普遍來說他就是受貸者的年齡加貸款的期限不可以大於75有一些銀行他甚至於可能會更下降可能是65或甚至於是70那麼面對這樣的一個狀況他等於就排擠了"},{"start":189.272,"end":206.089,"text":"高齡者購屋上面他所受到的貸款的壓力你可以貸但是呢你的年限無法貸那麼長那你等於就是你必須要付更高額的租金或者更高額的所謂包括這個費用等等那我要強調的是如果我們要面臨全齡化的金融的時候"},{"start":212.455,"end":224.288,"text":"那麼這樣的一個潛規則有沒有可能先被突破而且它不是個案性的突破因為我相信啦如果今天是郭台銘或者是黃仁勳他要回來台灣要來置產"},{"start":227.873,"end":244.795,"text":"銀行一定會搶著給但我不希望是這樣而是我們整體就像您所提到的思維要改變服務內容要革新技術跟方法的突破還有法規跟監理要調整這是您當時提到的金融跟保險業因應高齡化社會的四大改變"},{"start":245.436,"end":262.127,"text":"那像這樣的潛規則有沒有可能改變不然的話台灣現在我們平均的年齡是80女生是84.3歲男性是77平均是80以現在這個潛規則那麼就有可能已經"},{"start":263.348,"end":282.476,"text":"超過我們的平均年齡都已經超過80了來 主委謝謝 謝謝委員用這個全齡金融我非常喜歡這個字啦這個確實把那個inclusive這個字眼全部涵蓋我覺得這個就是特別是台灣面臨到高齡化的時候剛剛舉的那個貸款只是其中一個是"},{"start":282.836,"end":299.02,"text":"那我上任以後呢我就跟同仁講說我們先要把年齡這個東西把它去標籤化我說高齡化是我們無法阻卻的趨勢如果我們金融業不改變觀念不改變未來的技術不改變未來提供的服務還有法規不改變的話這個對我們是個威脅"},{"start":301.201,"end":325.84,"text":"如果我們這邊都可以改的話這就是一個莫大的機會所以我想剛才委員講就是我們未來金管會要走的方向就是說我們希望第一個讓我們的金融業未來有更寬廣的那個範圍而且這寬廣範圍是要服務真正的民眾的需要到最後剛才委員說我60歲確實我現在也在思考說我接下來要怎麼做那我也擔心可能我到70歲很多事情可能金融服務就不會涵蓋到我了"},{"start":326.4,"end":348.017,"text":"那我接下來但是未來我還是在這個社會上我還是有這些需求但是我們要跟我們所有金融機構來看普惠的概念就是全聯金融主委其實我把這個點點出來當然不是硬性的規定說從今之後請金管會去要求所有的銀行在放貸款的時候就撇開年紀這個部分"},{"start":349.478,"end":377.89,"text":"但是像這樣的潛規則的存在其實不用騙大家大家都知道你去辦過房貸你就知道他會給你一個年限給你一個年紀那這個部分我希望就像如您所說的不要性別歧視也不要年齡歧視而是去看這一棟房子我們都知道你在辦貸款的時候房子就是擔保品嘛這個房子的擔保品包括你能夠負擔的部分而不要把它變成是歧視的部分那我想這個會是改進的第一步也是"},{"start":378.81,"end":400.13,"text":"對於面對高齡化社會的所謂高齡化的金融服務來講非常重要的第一步對 我再插一句話就是說實際上假設我們金融機構還是沿襲以前的技術是做不到這個所以我剛才講你的經營技術方法也要變就是說你要想想看有沒有什麼其他的方法可以解決我們過去所擔心的問題這是我們要來努力的好 謝謝謝謝林委員"}]}},{"id":"165288","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165288","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3c546664524760fd757c737e12387eef8cc7208a858208f5c73d84130179852065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"11:52:01 - 11:58:50","影片長度":"00:06:49","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:52:01+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:58:50+08:00","duration":409,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.6722187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.469093750000001,"end":15.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.85534375,"end":18.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.69471875,"end":20.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.44534375,"end":21.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.96846875,"end":22.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.72784375,"end":24.769718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.17471875,"end":25.562843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.562843750000003,"end":25.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.90034375,"end":26.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.01846875,"end":26.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.16596875,"end":27.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.63409375,"end":51.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.08971875,"end":59.127218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":59.39721875,"end":60.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.08909375,"end":66.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.87284375,"end":99.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":98.44596875,"end":98.56409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.54284375,"end":128.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.91409375,"end":100.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.69784375,"end":108.06471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.33846875,"end":113.53221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.65721875000001,"end":123.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.98159375,"end":165.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.65596875,"end":132.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":134.69346875000002,"end":135.57096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.11909375000002,"end":167.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.51534375,"end":170.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.81846875000002,"end":174.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.58596875,"end":199.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.10034375,"end":177.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.91534375,"end":201.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.12596875000003,"end":208.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.63971875000001,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.44471875000002,"end":220.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.92471875,"end":222.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.19034375,"end":223.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.82721875000001,"end":225.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.75096875000003,"end":229.26096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.76721875,"end":231.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.97784375,"end":234.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.25159375,"end":237.17534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.88409375,"end":238.87971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.47034375,"end":240.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.71909375,"end":242.79471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.58784375000002,"end":244.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.25846875000002,"end":246.05159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.13596875000002,"end":247.26659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.99221875,"end":250.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.92846875,"end":253.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.89846875,"end":256.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.83034375,"end":262.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.21784375000004,"end":277.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.65846875,"end":286.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.10846875000004,"end":299.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.91659375,"end":301.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.32971875000004,"end":303.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.83159375,"end":305.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.40096875,"end":305.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.43471875,"end":306.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.54846875000004,"end":308.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.06721875,"end":328.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.80971875,"end":308.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.54784375,"end":311.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.38034375,"end":339.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.99471875,"end":344.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.25971875000005,"end":345.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.27659375,"end":345.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.39471875000004,"end":345.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.93471875,"end":346.91346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.20846875,"end":350.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.82846875,"end":352.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.64659375,"end":364.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.10034375000004,"end":368.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.19284375,"end":377.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.48659375,"end":380.20784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.46096875,"end":381.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.63784375,"end":390.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.97409375,"end":394.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.22659375,"end":398.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.12471875,"end":402.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.10721875,"end":408.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.46909375,"end":411.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.93284375,"end":411.96659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.773,"end":27.25,"text":"來 我先處理一下會議時間我們上午會議的時間就進行到所有登記委員發言的委員詢問結束為止好 謝謝主席有請副秘書長請王副秘有請法務部政務次長請徐政次委員好好"},{"start":28.7,"end":51.241,"text":"我先補充一下 剛剛政務司長對於這個邊形呢還有這個到底要不要坐牢 兩者是折衣還是這樣子的我延續上一個話題 我想補充一下就我自己也有了解那你有沒有所知道當這一個受刑人可能是有生理上的疾病沒辦法承受瞬間的重大這樣子的邊形的時候新加坡是怎麼做"},{"start":56.762,"end":65.695,"text":"这个我们手上没有增加坐牢的时间所以你可以去研究这样子的情况之下呢基本上他还会再往上加"},{"start":66.98,"end":95.365,"text":"所以我相信剛剛就像剛剛洪孟愷委員說的啊他絕對不是二則一啊他一定是兩者並行然後並且在不可承受這瞬間的邊形的過程當中他有一個替代方案所以這個部分我還是希望就像延續剛剛說的研究一下到底我們現在的民情到底現在能不能立法的可能都能夠讓我們能夠追蹤這個進度當然剛剛你有說啦民調也是作為一個研議之一"},{"start":96.025,"end":113.821,"text":"是不是有機會一個月內先回覆我們可不可以做民調可不可以做就好我這裡不能承諾任何事情我說我們會探求民意但是方式上我們回去那你探求的方法你可不可以跟我講一下我們回去一定要討論就是你們自己內部討論要探求民意剛才那個昭緯有特別講到說單方面的去問民調恐怕"},{"start":118.886,"end":133.217,"text":"跟這個死刑那個會得到同樣的結論那有時候不是這樣子看一件事 一個政策不能完全都看這個如果你們沒辦法真正了解民意我們會讓你們看到什麼叫民意啦一個政策不是這麼簡單我想有一個問題跟副秘書長討論"},{"start":138.081,"end":164.573,"text":"交保金額過低我們最近看到一個新聞讓我們非常的感嘆太子集團交保金額過低我想其他的委員一定都有在討論近期引發整個社會的關注根據檢方的資料太子集團整個涉嫌跨國的詐騙跟洗錢涉案的金額高達45億元但多數被告交保金額介於3萬到100萬交保金額跟犯罪所得不符比例"},{"start":165.293,"end":170.089,"text":"我先請問一下 蜂蜜掌你有沒有看一個新的劇 叫回魂記"},{"start":172.194,"end":198.085,"text":"包委員沒有我基本不看劇的不看劇的沒關係有機會看一下因為很重要我不會提這麼無聊的問題就代表他有背後的一個目的最近年輕人都在看這一部戲那看的人都心有戚戚焉連我這個做立法委員的喵到我都覺得怎麼會這樣三個女孩子被騙到國外的過程最後衍生出他們必須變成詐騙的幫手"},{"start":200.026,"end":224.552,"text":"整個施行的方法都從回魂記這一部劇裡面呈現出來最後呢也有許多的孩子就非常慘烈的在這部戲裡面呈現出他的慘狀那整個過程當中我們還看到就是祖賢啊最後在國外是被判處死刑但是在台灣回想在台灣他的交保金額"},{"start":225.834,"end":246.951,"text":"我們看到其中有一個集團旗下有一位女特助15萬元交保當場是笑著離開引發整個社會的討論關注這一個圖片不是我做的是網路上在流傳的點閱率極高啊但是我想要問大家"},{"start":248.316,"end":256.353,"text":"這不對於整個國人的觀感整個對整個司法的不信任甚至是打擊執法人員的一個士氣嗎"},{"start":257.881,"end":286.573,"text":"我想這也是卓榮泰院長他自己也都感覺到他也有發表這樣的言論所以整個太子集團涉案的金額高達45億元但多數的交保金額看到不符比例重大的經濟犯罪交保金額有顯著的落差的時候我想問複密你可不可以回應社會是否考慮調整重大詐欺以及洗錢案件的交保標準避免類似的金額落差可以回應嗎"},{"start":287.594,"end":300.871,"text":"包委員您所垂詢的這個案件交保15萬這個是在偵查中檢察官直接交保他並沒有申請法院所以說並不是法院所做的裁定但是他最後是不是就15萬離開了"},{"start":302.443,"end":328.378,"text":"那是檢察官做的決定所以是檢察官的問題所以要法部部來處理我不能說是不是問題我覺得這個是整個司法院你要去做統籌的去做整個社會民情的調查觀感不佳今天你不是說這不是法院判的這是檢察官這邊的我當然知道可是現在我就問你難道現在卓榮泰院長11日他做坦言這不僅造成國人觀感不佳"},{"start":329.434,"end":346.91,"text":"也造成執法人員打擊士氣那請問你是不是要用一樣的話去告訴卓榮泰這不是法院判的這是檢察官在偵查的時候15萬交保所以今天不是這樣回應我們整個司法院去做整體的檢討這部分您覺得呢有關於那個交保的那個金額"},{"start":353.983,"end":381.039,"text":"這個部分司法院就是如果說是到法院這一段那個來啦就是說那個法院我們也有一些那個裁量那個基準就是給那個法官們那個參考那卓榮泰他是屬於我是不想吐你啦其他的案件就有高於這樣子的一個交保金額啦不要跟我講現在是檢察官啦再來啦豐原一家五口也是15萬交保啦都剛好15萬"},{"start":382.771,"end":408.534,"text":"奇怪了 社會就有這樣子的疑慮今天主席已經站起來了我還是希望把這一個聲音帶到整個司法院我希望你們好好的檢討其他的案件就可以交保金額這麼高我不想提特定的案例等一下你們又說這是個案可是現在看到這個問題就是民眾觀感不佳整個司法不信任希望你們好好檢討好 謝謝羅委員"}]}},{"id":"165287","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165287","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3bea191de5b213c6c8abc180ec3481d02a983a90274432617af890c8298699f945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"11:47:26 - 11:58:02","影片長度":"00:10:36","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:47:26+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:58:02+08:00","duration":636,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.53284375,"end":15.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.84284375,"end":19.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.52159375,"end":20.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.26346875,"end":24.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.95534375,"end":26.153468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.42346875,"end":33.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.494093750000005,"end":45.610343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.99846875,"end":68.88096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.89784375,"end":76.67721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.86284375000001,"end":106.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.57534375,"end":108.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.13221875,"end":108.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.73971875000001,"end":123.92721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.63596875,"end":189.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.09409375,"end":210.59721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.83346875,"end":225.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.70909375000002,"end":224.14784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.85221875000002,"end":226.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.23596875,"end":229.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.51409375,"end":240.11159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.41534375,"end":267.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.60096875,"end":280.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.10096875,"end":288.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.45409375,"end":293.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.22971875,"end":306.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.83534375,"end":318.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.44534375,"end":320.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.84159375,"end":321.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.07346875,"end":324.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.85784375000003,"end":353.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.11909375000005,"end":356.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.30846875000003,"end":361.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.20221875000004,"end":367.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.53471875,"end":373.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.10346875000005,"end":373.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.06534375,"end":381.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.31346875,"end":395.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.22346875000005,"end":390.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.24784375,"end":397.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.96471875000003,"end":410.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.75159375000004,"end":416.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.93659375000004,"end":415.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.76346875,"end":416.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.55659375000005,"end":417.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.14284375000005,"end":419.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.66159375,"end":431.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.52034375000005,"end":435.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.50284375,"end":450.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.40409375,"end":449.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.01971875000004,"end":452.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.01534375000006,"end":451.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.24721875,"end":483.46596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.56284375,"end":484.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.99284375,"end":488.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.47784375000003,"end":514.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.4653437500001,"end":515.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.95034375,"end":519.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.3547187500001,"end":525.1472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.1640937500001,"end":530.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.59784375,"end":535.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.2678437500001,"end":537.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.6472187500001,"end":550.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.3247187500001,"end":561.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.2890937500001,"end":563.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.7065937500001,"end":570.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.0947187500001,"end":565.7990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.21596875,"end":574.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.20721875,"end":573.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.86096875,"end":575.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.18159375,"end":576.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.9240937500001,"end":576.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.1772187500001,"end":595.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.43159375,"end":596.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.95034375,"end":612.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.9072187500001,"end":603.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.9822187500001,"end":609.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.83846875,"end":611.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.6272187500001,"end":623.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.4609687500001,"end":633.1472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.36784375,"end":625.8740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.6922187499999,"end":629.2490937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.6497187500001,"end":630.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.82659375,"end":633.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.7547187499999,"end":634.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.46346875,"end":637.3490937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.847,"end":17.098,"text":"現在請吳麗華委員質詢不過我先要講一下是等一下在吳佩儀委員之後呢我們有個臨時提案就會請現在的兩位委員就希望能夠暫時就先留下來處理謝謝吳麗華委員謝謝主席有請鄭次長鄭次長請委員好"},{"start":25.3,"end":42.712,"text":"次長好 其實我們常常有聽到現在的園民會主委在很多的場合他都會說如果運動沒有原住民就不精彩了那他也常常舉例說我們的職棒有二分之一以上的選手都是原住民"},{"start":43.893,"end":60.689,"text":"但是我们来看我们的运动赛事就是针对原住民的部分目前全国大概就是全国原住民组运动会而且这个运动会还不是原民会办的是教育部办的"},{"start":61.269,"end":75.599,"text":"那我在這邊就是有很多次的質詢不論是原民會的前主委或現任主委甚至是到外交部我都有去建議說可不可以請原民會自己要有一個運動會"},{"start":77.04,"end":106.543,"text":"至少辦一個南島的運動會或南太平洋運動會那我很感謝因為現任的原民會主委有聽進去所以呢下個月12月會在屏東高雄邀請11個南島國家跟台灣的各個族群來一場世界援助民族運動會那我在這邊也邀請我們運動部部長次長能夠一同共襄盛舉好嗎"},{"start":107.623,"end":123.568,"text":"好 謝謝委員邀請那我們來看一下這個比賽呢它競技項目有十項像傳統射箭 樂舞 巨木等等等 划船好 那我現在就是要提到像這一些項目其實也不是"},{"start":124.708,"end":143.296,"text":"無中生有 憑空生出來的它大概是目前在很多我們國內地方的像鄉運或者全國原住民族運動會或者是在世界各國都有這一些項目可是我們來看一下我們關心的是什麼以傳統設建來講"},{"start":145.177,"end":154.583,"text":"我們知道現代的射箭它是反屈弓複合弓因此我們要考裁判的證照像C級也是以兩個反屈弓複合弓來考可是原住民的傳統弓它就沒有這一些現代的比賽規則又或者說我們看傳統摔角"},{"start":167.31,"end":188.512,"text":"像中華民國摔角協會他的競賽規則技術手冊他的這些項目其實跟我們在舉辦的這些傳統摔角根本沒有辦法相對應不過我們可以看到傳統摔角有列入國家文化記憶庫所以我第一個問題就是想請教一下運動部請教次長"},{"start":190.694,"end":210.162,"text":"將這些原住民傳統民俗運動規則化制定一個全國統一技術規則手冊利於我們的國際能見度 利於推展這些運動 利於辦理研習取得證照 讓原住民傳統運動的裁判跟教練成為專業 次長你支持這個方向嗎"},{"start":210.902,"end":239.558,"text":"包括原則上我們支持不過我們在做這件事情的時候通常我會希望它有一個既有的一個協會來協助這邊我會責成全民運動署的署長這邊來會後我們來了解一下原則上方向我們是支持的好 謝謝為什麼我這樣子關心因為我們其實長期以來對於所謂的民俗運動所謂的傳統競技這樣的一個名詞的框架定義感到很困擾"},{"start":240.538,"end":266.508,"text":"因為在世界上我們都認為那些是正式的原住民的項目可是回到我們中華民國的法令像這個國民體育法施行細則第三條我國固有之下列優良的體育活動國舞術華龍舟舞龍舞獅宋江鎮跳鼓鎮扯鈴跳繩踢毽子陀螺其他民俗體育活動我們就不禁想問"},{"start":267.668,"end":292.982,"text":"那原住民是哪一國的那這一些運動項目是屬於誰的民俗那我們來看一下喔其實以113年全民運動會我們可以看到 你看項目有什麼呢 傳統體育它就列了民俗體育 太極拳 元吉舞 龍舟摔角國術 龍獅運動依然看不到原住民的傳統民俗"},{"start":294.618,"end":320.085,"text":"這個學年度的民俗體育扎根學校的實施計畫 你看要推展的目標跳繩扯鈴踢劍陀螺鼓翼舞龍舞獅器磚波拉棒流星球 你看叫原住民的這一些推動民俗的或者傳統競技項目的這些老師教練情何以堪 情何以堪次長你了解我的意思齁"},{"start":321.03,"end":349.259,"text":"甚至全民運這次我們看到今年辦理的他說突破以往用學校為參加對象的模式開放運動社團俱樂部宮廟你看他這些項目依然扯鈴跳繩陀螺舞證文證扯鈴醒獅台灣獅舞龍舞獅什麼都有就看不到任何一項所以我想請教一下那個次長"},{"start":350.62,"end":356.027,"text":"全國運動賽事除了這些漢人的民俗運動應不應該加入原住民的民俗運動項目"},{"start":357.335,"end":383.891,"text":"包委員站在平權的角度我當然希望全部融入但是我們現在給原民會原民的運動這件事情原民運動會這部分我們給的支持度是遠高於民俗體育所以融入的話可能會反而削減了原住民運動這部分的經費他的享受到的權益次長完全不會如果您能夠回答說因為"},{"start":385.252,"end":409.925,"text":"這些規則沒有統一的規則規則這個我們會處理我還能接受但是如果你說會削弱全國原住民因為大家融在一起之後這個資源就會分散了我覺得經費永遠都可以編列都可以增加它沒有一個大水庫分散的問題如果我們覺得這些項目是增加的科目是重要的我們都會來支持這樣的預算編列好嗎"},{"start":410.825,"end":435.427,"text":"包委員您是希望把原民運動會不要舉辦把所有的項目融到全民運動會裡面來嗎我的意思是說國民體育法它有所謂的民俗運動所以我們在辦理全民運也好民俗體育紮根學校也好全國民俗運動會也好因為我們的法源我們的國民體育法它沒有列所以你們就不列"},{"start":436.608,"end":450.706,"text":"所以我們好像是局外人我們只能夠配說辦一個全國原族民族運動會你們自己玩你們的項目我覺得這個不是一個友善的做法這也不是體育平權的做法是 沒有錯沒錯齁"},{"start":452.327,"end":479.572,"text":"好 那我們來改進好不好好 那接下來就是我關心的就是因為我們看到補助目前傳統運動只有兩種補助模式一個是全國性體育社團另外一個就是學校那我是這樣子想啦既然你們都已經標榜說有把這個突破以往以學校為參加對象的模式開放運動社團 俱樂部 宮廟都可以"},{"start":480.053,"end":483.527,"text":"那我觉得是不是可以补助模式也打开可以吗"},{"start":487.128,"end":513.548,"text":"這部分應該沒有太大問題好 謝謝最後因為時間關係我想關心一下關於你們推動全民運動署推動的多元族群運動因為我看到你們的夜報專報有寫女性的高齡者的運動方案什麼都有了我是還是回歸到那一件事因為我也希望說我們的運動部"},{"start":516.611,"end":537.628,"text":"运动部也能够去办理一个关于原住民族的一些多元的运动多元族群的运动为什么呢我看到像福尔摩沙古道国际越野赛它是在我们的这个崇山峻岭重回祖灵怀抱的极限之路像这样的一个"},{"start":538.74,"end":560.928,"text":"原住民傳統領域的一個國際的賽事受到很大的矚目而且它是國際的規模甚至像近年很有名的斯巴達障礙賽這些都其實受到國際很多的參與度我是覺得說我們原住民如果也能夠辦理這一類的障礙賽"},{"start":562.372,"end":575.637,"text":"您可以理解像傳統啊 富重啊 沙王啊設計一些具備文化敏感度的賽事設計它就成為全民原教全世界來認識不錯喔 對而且有16個族透過這個障礙賽認識16個族群"},{"start":581.359,"end":596.611,"text":"所以我是希望說運動部願不願意舉辦類似的原住民的這種越野障礙賽然後最重要的就是達成多元族群運動還有全民原教以及促進觀光運動平權市長您的意見如何"},{"start":597.211,"end":622.086,"text":"鮑委員這個部分是過去體育署無能為力但是接下來運動部全民動署已經可以把這個納進來所以我們歡迎當然署長也講說我們會再主動跟這個族群的相關人士來聯繫希望他們來一起來申請補助那我們一起來努力謝謝那我希望說我今天談的這幾個議題可以在兩周內提供書面回覆或到辦公室一起來討論也可以"},{"start":623.507,"end":636.446,"text":"包委員我們先到辦公室跟委員討論那也拜託委員把相關的你剛剛提到這些族群他們這些專業人士也一起幫我們邀請來讓我們認識一下好嗎好 感恩謝謝委員好 謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"165285","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165285","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe316571a1de8418d0257c737e12387eef8a983a90274432617903ae40ffbf143735ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:44:06 - 11:51:29","影片長度":"00:07:23","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:44:06+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:51:29+08:00","duration":443,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.076593750000001,"end":6.966593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.78909375,"end":9.750968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.40909375,"end":10.662218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.395968750000002,"end":57.102218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.447843750000004,"end":60.797843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.017218750000005,"end":85.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.58721875,"end":86.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.03409375000001,"end":91.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.02534375,"end":91.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.60721875,"end":96.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.82596875,"end":96.92721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.97784375,"end":97.33221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.33221875000001,"end":97.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.41659375,"end":141.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.50096875000001,"end":98.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.72409375000001,"end":100.90971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.16909375,"end":160.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.26221875000002,"end":173.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.30846875,"end":168.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.72971875000002,"end":175.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.76721875,"end":178.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.81784375,"end":176.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.80471875,"end":192.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.19096875000002,"end":191.25846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.49034375000002,"end":234.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.82971875,"end":246.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.48596875,"end":253.18971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.82659375000003,"end":261.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.75846875,"end":263.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.81659375000004,"end":266.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.90471875000003,"end":267.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.92159375,"end":281.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.27971875000003,"end":272.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.78909375,"end":279.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.47659375,"end":281.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.30346875000004,"end":281.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.97846875,"end":282.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.35784375000003,"end":359.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.90971875,"end":290.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.78721875,"end":291.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.04409375,"end":294.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.49096875000004,"end":297.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.24909375000004,"end":374.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.23159375,"end":363.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.53909375,"end":368.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.97659375,"end":378.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.27971875000003,"end":379.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.90409375,"end":383.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.93346875000003,"end":383.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.59971875,"end":383.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.97096875,"end":385.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.45596875,"end":385.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.70909375,"end":385.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.81034375,"end":436.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.31659375000004,"end":386.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.43534375,"end":438.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.42221875,"end":443.48909375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.12,"end":6.604,"text":"主席謝謝 慢慢請法務部次長來 次長請"},{"start":13.447,"end":38.521,"text":"委員好好 次長好 次長因為剛剛本席也被我們專委員來點名到我想一個月前我在總質詢的時候就已經有提過就說因為現在看到新加坡已經正式三讀通過詐騙納入編刑的一個刑責裡面那其中其實剛剛專委員他在講是說他的意思啦我聽起來是說他不要說太便宜了就說應該是要讓"},{"start":40.322,"end":56.653,"text":"犯罪者付出應有的代價對不對更大的代價所以我先請教一下新加坡就你們現在了解他是不是不是只有打完邊刑就算了他應該有的刑責原本有要關幾年要罰多少錢是不是一樣延續"},{"start":60.409,"end":85.826,"text":"是 所以不存在中委員剛剛講的問題啊就是說新加坡他是把詐騙原本已經要罰多少要關多久但是因為很嚴重很嚴峻所以我新加坡增加了就是說除了原本的刑責以外還要再加上鞭刑嘛那這樣子反而是更能夠讓犯罪者付出他應該有的代價嘛 是不是這樣"},{"start":88.75,"end":108.864,"text":"編刑不是我們刑法不是我現在在問新加坡啦不是因為委員剛才提到說加張劇的話更能夠嚇阻是我們現在在因為我們我國還沒有嘛等一下這是我第二個問題但我現在先問的是因為我要化解我們現在召委專委員的疑慮啊就是說不是要便宜行事啊"},{"start":109.524,"end":125.079,"text":"亂世用重點而且是要嚇阻那些犯罪者讓他知道說痛讓他知道說不能犯罪那一樣嘛過去我們現在做了很多不管打詐是法打詐無法我們該加重刑責的加重了該增加的罰金加重了但是詐騙一樣猖獗啊"},{"start":126.843,"end":140.919,"text":"今年上半年度480億的詐騙金額上個禮拜五還有5億多一天飆升的詐騙金額那為什麼詐騙還那麼猖獗所以新加坡他們用另外一個方式就除了原有的刑責以外再加上編刑"},{"start":142.25,"end":160.625,"text":"等於是原有形則不變再加上邊形更大的嚇阻嘛所以這是化解我們剛剛莊委員還有一些部分人士的疑慮不是說二則一有邊形就不用關或是有關就不用邊形不是的新加坡是把它累加上去是不是這樣子哇"},{"start":167.584,"end":191.434,"text":"這個我們 我們在不是 你剛剛你的幕僚都有講是這樣子的有什麼好不是 本席有一說一是 因為我手上沒有資料所以我不敢回答好 那這樣子就第二個問題了是本席在總質詢的時候不過剛剛您的幕僚已經跟你講說是這樣子了本席查的資料也是這樣子好不好因為這畢竟是上個禮拜他們正式三讀通過的我想這是公開的資訊大家都可以查但是第二個問題"},{"start":192.634,"end":213.68,"text":"本席也沒有說馬上現在就要推動邊行是因為我國目前沒有這樣子的一個行則可是我們在講是說詐騙那麼的猖獗我們要來防治就要有更積極的作為因為任何人都沒有辦法接受詐騙在台灣猖獗也因此新加坡已經變成是一個很好的實驗的對照組就是他們已經三讀通過了"},{"start":217.281,"end":233.584,"text":"那本席也說應該要趕快來了解如果說未來三個月未來半年內新加坡的詐騙數真的有因為鞭刑納入之後而有下降不管是犯罪的人數 犯罪金額有下降的話那是不是就可以變成是我國立法的參考"},{"start":234.932,"end":263.306,"text":"就是人家真的實施之後真的有嚇阻詐騙的效果那我們能不能來研議這樣子的一個部分那我想請教一個月前我在總執行提出行政院長也說可以請法務部來做可情性評估跟研究那到目前為止我們做了哪些研究跟評估我想我們這個政法兩面都有啦不要先撇開我的問題是現在做哪些研究跟評估"},{"start":264.875,"end":281.784,"text":"不是正反兩面都有我們現在還在研議這個有沒有違反禁錮公約的第一條的規定這個法律上我們必須要先研究或者我們今天所以你們做了哪些研議"},{"start":284.657,"end":309,"text":"內部研議找專家學者研議這個都是在規劃中有規劃中因為本席那時候總質詢是講說半年的時間現在已經過了六分之一了一個多月過去了那如果說你這樣的進度很顯然到半年有沒有辦法拿出一個而且甚至那一天本席有講是說要請法務部也要去了解我們的民情"},{"start":309.62,"end":329.577,"text":"到底大家能不能接受跟支持因為實在話講嘛立法委員是人民一票一票選出來我們代表民意嘛所以我們來做立法嘛那一樣民眾的思考跟民眾的想法也是我們很重要的立法參考不管是立法院或者是行政部門嘛也因此我們現在要了解的是說國人對於詐騙沒有辦法接受"},{"start":330.177,"end":358.849,"text":"那人家已經有更積極的態度來去對付詐騙這個方法有沒有效我們還不知道所以需要去了解以及最後國人能不能接受我們要用更積極的態度來去對付詐騙還是國人認為是說沒關係啊詐騙放著反正我們就是要人權至上我覺得這也有可能但是我現在要求的是說當我們要更進一步的在司法法治委員會如果說未來有修法的話行政部門應該要給我們這些相關資料啊"},{"start":360.39,"end":378.308,"text":"這個議題我們會放在行修小組我們本部的行修小組會議裡面請專家學者提供意見好 所以也會廣大意見剛才所指教的這個部分我們也去了解一下我們國內民意的方向好 所以了解民意的方向會有什麼樣的方法做民調"},{"start":379.372,"end":398.654,"text":"最快嘛我們法務部可以來做一個全民民調我們會後會去研議用什麼方式本席還是強調就是說我想我們這一間辦公室的人沒有人支持詐騙大家對詐騙深惡痛絕那本席要有一個態度就是我們已經看到別的國家有用更積極的方式來對付詐騙"},{"start":399.755,"end":418.757,"text":"那這個方法有沒有效大家也不知道我相信甚至連新加坡他們政府官方可能有做過相關的資料但是他們也不確定百分之百有效所以才需要時間嘛所以我才講是說如果可以用一個對照組三個月後我們來看一下新加坡他們的刑事案件詐騙案件有沒有真的往下降"},{"start":419.318,"end":437.254,"text":"可以當過我國的一個很重要的立法參考我覺得這也是一個好事那另外一個部分我們也了解國內的民意所以今天市長已經正式的回答本席會納入這個小組並且來做討論而且也會來廣稱民意那本席會再持續追蹤這個議題好不好是 好 謝謝好 謝謝黃孟愷委員精闢的質詢"}]}},{"id":"165284","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165284","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3fd8d03330f327a74b62a46119727b9b9a983a90274432617d86c46796a0cfb5a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇清泉","委員發言時間":"11:40:34 - 11:51:22","影片長度":"00:10:48","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:40:34+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:51:22+08:00","duration":648,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.34284375,"end":6.949718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.384093750000002,"end":12.822218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.77596875,"end":12.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.957218750000003,"end":17.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.15096875,"end":15.404093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.36159375,"end":18.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.550968750000003,"end":21.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.246593750000002,"end":29.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.84909375,"end":33.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.41784375,"end":37.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.43471875,"end":35.805968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.83534375,"end":37.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.25721875,"end":37.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.86471875,"end":37.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.079718750000005,"end":44.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.563468750000006,"end":49.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.03596875,"end":50.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.39409375,"end":54.773468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.81971875,"end":57.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.502843750000004,"end":69.28596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.69096875000001,"end":72.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.08284375000001,"end":73.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.12909375000001,"end":75.15846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.13721875,"end":79.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.20409375,"end":83.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.71409375,"end":92.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.58596875,"end":96.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.38721875,"end":103.22159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.77846875,"end":107.87909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.95909375000001,"end":124.68659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.47534375000001,"end":132.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.27596875,"end":136.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.87846875,"end":143.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.58659375000002,"end":143.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.21096875,"end":152.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.49659375000002,"end":152.51346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.51346875000002,"end":155.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.53034375000001,"end":152.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.37346875,"end":157.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.39034375,"end":173.06721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.96159375000002,"end":176.10471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.84721875000002,"end":177.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.43346875,"end":181.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.72409375,"end":203.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.08346875,"end":205.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.67784375000002,"end":215.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.54159375,"end":220.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.17784375000002,"end":221.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.06784375,"end":227.57346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.75909375,"end":230.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.30284375000002,"end":233.04096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.37409375000001,"end":236.29784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.83784375000002,"end":240.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.88846875000002,"end":237.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.34346875000003,"end":242.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.10284375,"end":245.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.73096875000002,"end":245.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.42284375000003,"end":246.47346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.47346875000002,"end":248.51534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.78534375,"end":249.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.76409375000003,"end":252.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.85221875000002,"end":255.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.99096875000004,"end":256.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.29034375000003,"end":258.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.94409375000004,"end":261.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.25159375000004,"end":267.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.69784375,"end":269.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.15346875,"end":317.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.28096875,"end":330.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.21159375,"end":342.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.51471875000004,"end":334.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.52159375,"end":345.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.32284375,"end":355.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.66284375000004,"end":365.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.89784375000005,"end":369.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.55971875,"end":381.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.31721875000005,"end":382.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.35096875000005,"end":382.77284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.36784375,"end":384.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.03846875000005,"end":389.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.47221875,"end":391.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.26096875,"end":391.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.66596875000005,"end":391.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.81784375,"end":392.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.22284375000004,"end":396.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.37471875,"end":394.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.16721875,"end":397.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.42034375000003,"end":397.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.87596875,"end":399.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.22596875000005,"end":399.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.13721875000005,"end":404.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.65596875,"end":401.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.76096875,"end":406.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.92096875000004,"end":408.43971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.09784375000004,"end":411.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.84846875000005,"end":415.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.57784375,"end":416.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.61971875,"end":422.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.11659375000005,"end":432.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.48221875,"end":436.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.09346875000006,"end":445.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.75034375,"end":452.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.92221875,"end":461.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.88284375,"end":483.07784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.19596875,"end":484.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.21284375000005,"end":505.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.72409375,"end":516.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.2959687499999,"end":520.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.45596875,"end":522.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.24471875,"end":536.2509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.36909375,"end":540.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.87471875,"end":550.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.2122187500001,"end":544.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.8484687499999,"end":547.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.7422187500001,"end":552.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.72909375,"end":563.3015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.8078437500001,"end":565.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.8115937499999,"end":567.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.00971875,"end":573.8484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.5065937500001,"end":581.5772187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.6753437500001,"end":575.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.20159375,"end":589.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.45346875,"end":592.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.5459687499999,"end":595.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.0603437500001,"end":595.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.54971875,"end":595.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.5834687500001,"end":596.1572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.1572187500001,"end":605.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.82659375,"end":611.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.4797187500001,"end":618.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.73596875,"end":621.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.76971875,"end":619.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.7778437500001,"end":622.9209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.1740937500001,"end":623.4778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.52409375,"end":626.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.19471875,"end":628.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.5190937500001,"end":633.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.63659375,"end":636.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.9272187500001,"end":639.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.12909375,"end":641.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.5547187500001,"end":649.14471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.39,"end":4.472,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請部長勞動力發展署黃署長來 黃署長說得很好"},{"start":24.301,"end":49.824,"text":"我今天問你三個問題 我簡單啦 我在形容外殼 沒辦法 拖不下去了第一個問題 你今年11月25 九陣嘛 對不對你怎麼知道你同時九陣都不知道啊我有點忘了日期了我都要給你monitor 要一年啊你對你一年來的表現 你自己判幾分自己打分數"},{"start":52.421,"end":72.011,"text":"很不會被我覺得不用自己打分數吧我用比較客觀看啦 我覺得你很幼老啦很細膩但是細膩有餘啦 私立有餘 開創不太夠這伴隨第二個問題我問 如果我跟國昌有說"},{"start":80.27,"end":101.143,"text":"這八十回以上不用用八十兩票這也是柯文哲提出來 也是侯友宜提出來我這裡要跟你說就是侯友宜這個案子是我提的所以我給他提出來是要做他的競選的政見所以我對這個我非常關心我們要過這個法的時候"},{"start":109.011,"end":136.679,"text":"大家都說會加幾萬尤其是我們這些女性的那個立法委員都一直說會增加十萬二十萬會增加多少的會排擠但是我看因為像這個外籍看護沒有在縮沒有在縮不然大家都很害怕台灣台灣善戒還是比較多不然這點你有同意嗎"},{"start":139.045,"end":155.097,"text":"當然政府的政策上面希望盡量的去拉近不同家庭的處境所以你這樣考慮太多結果呢 實施了到現在看起來也沒有像我們想的那麼嚴重我們花了很大的力氣去設計配套"},{"start":157.438,"end":170.946,"text":"不可以說大家像八十幾歲的人用身體運用會跑會跳 要穿著做看護 還要花這麼多錢我感覺那是不可能的事情 賺錢不太好賺 勞工改革賺錢不太好賺所以我早就預測說 不像你這麼嚴重"},{"start":181.749,"end":187.292,"text":"第二就是我比較高興的因為現在24個24萬個外籍看護裡面以前是21萬變22萬變23萬現在這裡面你說發揮去捨棄重的然後他會去要跟人照顧比較輕盈的這是我們高興的嘛會排除一些重症的沒有人要照顧結果我看也不是這樣"},{"start":207.714,"end":230.049,"text":"我想外籍康復來講 他要捱的可能是待遇啦還有工作的磁場 還有氛圍啦你如果說僱主的人對他比較好 或是說再給他一點養活這樣 他如果沒有那樣照顧重症的跟照顧輕症的 我看差不多啦照顧重症的反而是壓力變那麼大反正聰明就聰明啦"},{"start":234.44,"end":260.83,"text":"照顧親政的反省還會出問題呢這個這樣的敘述行政部門不能講啊你不能講啊而且我們不能這樣想啊好我們不能這樣想啊就是說重症會沒人顧他會選僱主然後跑掉也沒有像我們想的那麼的嚴重啦對不對黃署長署長有沒有你看到這個情形沒有"},{"start":262.304,"end":290.811,"text":"就是說大家都跑去照顧年輕的然後就自己選僱主然後跑來跑去那個我來回答啦第一個是其實我們還是有聽到會有一些重症的家庭跟我們反映其實家裡的看護外籍看護工其實的確這個在好像有點想要在外面去找工作然後找比較輕的工作這個狀況現象不是沒有有這樣的聲音我們陸續都有聽到"},{"start":292.051,"end":314.511,"text":"但第二個事情是的確我們從行政部門角度我們本來就要為比較嚴峻的狀況去做設想我們不能都假設我都不去設想大家又會說很輕忽我們要為比較嚴峻的狀況去做設想並擬定相關的配套所以當初在上路的時候我們也提出六大配套也希望能夠透過配套來減少可能原本大家擔心的衝擊"},{"start":315.772,"end":342.508,"text":"這也是我們在設計配套的原因所以你們的設計配套盡了很多力你們還有什麼量化的data讓我們可以感覺你們有努力或是你們有 我想這種data吃牌吃牌吃牌其實包括我們在這次我們擴大了直接擴大免評這擴大免評也讓申請的件數從申請的案件數從五成變七成其實現在有高達七成其實都適用多元免評的資格"},{"start":343.601,"end":364.567,"text":"所以其實很多的配套 配套的範圍也擴大那這都是我們希望符合大家民眾的需求之下 盡量來減少衝擊的做法我倒是覺得啦 很多的北省 像我去屏東高秋那一席家家屬在懷念的是什麼呢"},{"start":365.953,"end":380.609,"text":"他說我這個老人都重症有的重大三病等等我已經跟經濟的人不是很好聽這個話就好來做康復是薄不理睬下面的要到處去你又把我收到救援安定會這種的收減免沒有啦"},{"start":382.592,"end":403.169,"text":"是減免還是免除如果他的經濟弱勢比方是相對是經濟上比較弱勢的其實是不用 是免救安費的是免交的 還要三千塊嘛 對吧兩千是免救安費的免交還是減免他如果是經濟弱勢的話是減免減免 那有的是免費對不過這個要弱勢啦如果我們大家相當的反應是這一點"},{"start":404.87,"end":429.55,"text":"所以你就知道你嫁到那裡是對人來說有多重要好啦 這個就衍生第三個問題我們賴總統就是要叫婦女來參與勞動力這也是很好的事情啊讓這些女性投入出場我們現在的勞工是一千兩百萬人嘛 對不對你如果這些女性這裡有的請都特勤館 年齡也好你到處顧孩子 能娶給他 我也是幫養"},{"start":433.733,"end":461.17,"text":"來出國 現在我們兩千多個這要怎麼做呢對我們女性就業的參與率增加社會勞動率也增加 品質也提高你們就從補助 從那點起總統一個很好的想法你現在 你還在考慮 你是在考慮什麼跟委員說明這幾個月我想我們都在評估中然後也把各種可能的情境行政院也"},{"start":462.071,"end":484.577,"text":"指示了幾個原則包括必須考慮本國的勞工的狀況也必須去考慮多元家庭的需求也包括一些也許在照顧上面或者是在這個工作上面的品質然後最後也包括就是最重要的事情是說這個政策如果要實行的話那是要能夠真的減少這個照顧者的負擔台灣勞工不窮這是會越來越嚴重沒有可能會越來越好"},{"start":490.058,"end":502.223,"text":"不管是製造業 不管是營建業 不管是什麼都欠人家大太爐的大壁都扣多了在做所以這個問題是越來越嚴重所以要讓這個婦女再來參與 這是好事不然說什麼五千塊要調去八千塊的 安救安定會署長你是在調什麼意思 你是"},{"start":513.387,"end":535.687,"text":"用克魯莎還是根據哪一個條例我跟委員說明一個政策一個政策的推出都會有它可能會有的正面或負面的影響那我們也透過各種政策工具去思考怎麼樣減少可能會負面的影響所以各種政策工具也必須去評估"},{"start":536.448,"end":562.679,"text":"所以您是 您就當沒想過要把他凍起來不要做 還是我們現在就是在評估中你這個配套就是要把他凍起來啊跟委員說明我們其實現在就是在評估中對這個安定會五千到八千你這個女性出來上班不就要賺五六萬六七萬她才知道要請因為你請一個外資班"},{"start":576.643,"end":588.807,"text":"確實在這個議題上面各界有不太一樣的看法會有不同的出發點的看法那我們作為一個政策的規劃者跟評估者我們其實需要把各界的各種的看法跟需求都考慮進來"},{"start":590.532,"end":610.544,"text":"所以可能會有不同的出發點但是這是從 因為從不同的角度看待的原因你這個喔 你這個如果要 人家說調到這樣你要穿喔 這些女性要投入職場的差不多都要白領階級以上的啦差不多要一個個都穿六萬以上 八萬以上 到我才穿"},{"start":611.485,"end":639.927,"text":"你如果說 像藍綠的 你說要叫他請那不可能的事他請不上去 到處自己顧孩子就好啊所以這個 美意就沒了各個因素我們都要綜合考慮啦示範啦 各個因素我們都必須綜合考慮因為 有很的確我們聽到有很需要的聲音但也會有一些比較一直在提醒我們跟擔心的聲音這個正反意見都存在好"},{"start":644.619,"end":648.766,"text":"好 謝謝 接下來請大會委員 委員"}]}},{"id":"165310","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165310","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe32578e1f32474168db62a46119727b9b9cc7208a858208f5cb5c8fdb204d45c695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"11:51:38 - 12:02:00","影片長度":"00:10:22","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:51:38+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:02:00+08:00","duration":622,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.0559687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.32596875,"end":3.1359687500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.9372187499999995,"end":8.974718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.430343750000002,"end":10.172843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.447218750000001,"end":20.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.590343750000002,"end":12.282218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.449718750000002,"end":24.195968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.70221875,"end":27.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.63846875,"end":28.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.309093750000002,"end":37.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.76346875,"end":38.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.59034375,"end":44.040968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.29409375,"end":46.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.656593750000006,"end":48.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.86721875,"end":53.305343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.828468750000006,"end":57.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.338468750000004,"end":60.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.494093750000005,"end":62.299718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.805968750000005,"end":71.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.12534375,"end":81.72284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.04346875,"end":90.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.51034375,"end":93.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.04159375,"end":103.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.93034375,"end":114.79784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.98346875,"end":127.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.43346875,"end":124.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.71596875,"end":126.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.58909375,"end":145.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.88159375,"end":158.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.23409375,"end":177.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.11284375000002,"end":180.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.25596875000002,"end":188.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.09534375,"end":182.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.11971875,"end":189.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.19534375,"end":194.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.02596875,"end":199.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.10596875000002,"end":195.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.88159375,"end":200.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.50596875000002,"end":206.83409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.74596875,"end":204.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.15909375,"end":211.84596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.60596875000002,"end":213.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.31409375,"end":230.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.83034375000003,"end":235.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.82534375,"end":253.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.34159375000002,"end":255.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.04159375,"end":277.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.23221875,"end":279.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.29096875,"end":303.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.34159375,"end":310.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.53534375000004,"end":313.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.72034375000004,"end":325.85346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.43221875,"end":323.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.58346875,"end":326.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.19096875,"end":330.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.18221875,"end":332.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.83971875000003,"end":352.81971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.51159375000003,"end":354.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.37221875,"end":359.67096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.87346875000003,"end":365.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.93159375000005,"end":367.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.02409375,"end":380.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.77721875000003,"end":386.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.90721875,"end":388.07159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.20659375,"end":391.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.37471875,"end":396.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.20096875,"end":405.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.48659375000005,"end":408.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.08096875,"end":413.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.14346875,"end":419.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.59409375,"end":423.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.76221875000005,"end":425.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.41596875000005,"end":425.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.36096875000004,"end":440.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.78909375,"end":443.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.91534375000003,"end":450.66096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.39096875,"end":450.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.74534375,"end":459.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.51596875,"end":461.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.59159375,"end":478.92659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.92659375000005,"end":496.54409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.54409375000006,"end":514.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.62846875,"end":499.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.3134687500001,"end":517.4522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.5365937500001,"end":518.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.2959687499999,"end":521.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.8022187500001,"end":519.8484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.74284375,"end":529.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.83846875,"end":530.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.13784375,"end":534.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.39096875,"end":531.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.36096875,"end":534.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.22159375,"end":540.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.5247187500001,"end":540.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.1615937500001,"end":543.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.54096875,"end":556.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.2140937500001,"end":560.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.86784375,"end":558.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.0403437500001,"end":570.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.8784687500001,"end":576.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.58221875,"end":603.5147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.5147187499999,"end":615.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.1897187500001,"end":604.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.2847187500001,"end":622.97159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":2.691,"text":"我們那個財安署署長財安署署長"},{"start":9.488,"end":36.703,"text":"部長 署長 午安我想在這裡先跟你們線上感謝在這一次七月丹納斯颱風重創重創我們整個雲嘉南尤其是台南的這個西北地區那西北它本身就是一個農業區那存在的保留了很多的一個石棉瓦這個石棉瓦其實存在了很多的農舍甚至就是一般的住家"},{"start":37.813,"end":59.849,"text":"那其实在那段时间常常就是说在空气里头还飘散的那种纤维的一个粉尘为什么因为大家在拆房子的时候大家是用一个最直接的方式也没有戴口罩也没有戴手套那就是这样子就是把这个那个屋顶上的石棉整个拉下来"},{"start":60.549,"end":81.389,"text":"那謝謝你們就是說展署那提出來的這一個災後重建防護指揮所那甚至就是說在我們四個區裡頭做了災後防護的一個服務站那也送出去了一萬多組一萬多組的這個防護包那可是在我們台南"},{"start":82.31,"end":102.972,"text":"還有大概接近接近7大概6000噸6000噸的實棉瓦還沒有清印所以在這裡要特別跟部長就是做一個請命你們現在都已經測了是不是可以留下一個固定的窗口因為事實上這個讓災民跟業者知道拆實棉是要找誰"},{"start":104.153,"end":127.019,"text":"要問誰要怎麼拆才合法才安全這個對於我們的災區來講這個是非常非常重要的是不是請部長回應一下跟委員說明因為的確在尤其之前在台南的災區然後遇到一個這樣子過去沒有發生過的颱風的路徑所造成的影響很大然後大家也都很辛苦"},{"start":127.759,"end":144.887,"text":"所以我們當初設定了這樣子的一個工作站的方式那目前我們其實是跟台南市政府討論接下來的這個窗口由台南市政府來擔任但我們還是會全力支持包括相關的物資還是會由我們來提供"},{"start":146.416,"end":168.201,"text":"部長我想在這裡我還是特別要再跟你做建議我認為由中央來做這一個固定的窗口因為物資當然是由我們勞動部來提供那如果這個固定的窗口是由我們來指揮的話我相信成效會更好其實你已經編了那麼多的錢環境部已經編了那麼多的錢這個超過20億 20億還是不夠"},{"start":170.982,"end":193.676,"text":"前面的7億 第一次的7億 再來的20億後續我想還是要再追加的因為數量實在是太龐大了所以我想部長你考慮看看我希望這個固定的窗口是由你們你們把它就是可以那個總體的那個指揮這個對我們地方來講是一個比較好的"},{"start":194.356,"end":213.358,"text":"那這樣好不好我是覺得我們可以用我們的南區中心來跟台南市政府一起建立一個平台好可以那這個平台那當然物資的提供協助我們都還是會做那我們南區中心跟地方政府我覺得南區中心就是跟台南市政府一起來合作那我一起合作那大家一起協助對那我們還是願意做這個事情的"},{"start":214.498,"end":234.624,"text":"謝謝 謝謝部長那再就是也再一次感謝勞動部就是在丹納斯颱風災後你啟動了三大支持的一個方案第一個就是天然災害的那個臨時的工作津貼這個其實在這個整個災情的過程當中我們啟動了這個天然的工作津貼那也"},{"start":236.065,"end":254.967,"text":"幫了很多很多的忙就是說因為很多就是我們臨時要找到工人就是有這一筆錢其實讓我們很好的去調度再來就是說職業訓練的一個補助那第三個就是說創業貸款的本息的那個環角這一個其實部長"},{"start":256.127,"end":279.216,"text":"我要跟你做一個探討就是說在農漁業的部分我們是爭取到了我們是爭取到了就是那個多了20萬然後是一年加三個月那他的利息他的利息是0.915非常非常的便宜可是你的青農的創業你們竟然就是給他只有半年"},{"start":280.336,"end":303.394,"text":"我覺得相形之下這個對於就是這些青年創業的一個貸款那在面臨到大家一樣都碰到了這一個丹納斯颱風那農民跟漁民農業部可以做這樣的一個補貼那為什麼我們勞動部對於青創的一個補貼竟然只是半年而已這個是不是請說明一下"},{"start":307.406,"end":325.246,"text":"是不是可以比照就是我们的龙一鸣这个创业贷款的贷款的还款应该委员指的是说这个老公部创业贷款的还款的期限目前我们最长是六个月希望可以再延长"},{"start":326.186,"end":351.998,"text":"沒有錯我想我們來研究一下好不好因為整體來講就是說這整個受創的面積就是大部分就是都是在整個就是在鄉村區那鄉村區的這些青龍還有這些就是說回到地方開設的一些小商店其實他是很值得就是說我們勞動部來協助他你看我們的農藝民都幫了這麼多了"},{"start":353.524,"end":380.351,"text":"我們再研究一下這個事情好 那也希望就是那個部長研究好不好來 再接著跟最後跟部長探討一個農業移工他需要快速的一個荷花因為農業有季節性部長你知道這一段時間什麼東西什麼水果最好吃就是洋香瓜最好吃還有我們的蓮角也很好吃可是當我要一比一就是說我一個本老 一個外老"},{"start":382.127,"end":396.569,"text":"這樣子的一個申請方案的時候通常就是把整個程序跑完了以後那進來的移工事實上緩不濟急還有我很想邀請你有空到我們整個南部"},{"start":397.31,"end":418.94,"text":"其實都可以讓你點名在我們的畜牧業裡頭很多是自己的孩子自己的孩子在養豬自己的孩子在養雞為什麼因為請不到本地的勞工這個是在畜牧業存在的非常非常大的一個困難那我不知道那個部長怎麼看這個農業移工這一個速度"},{"start":419.639,"end":440.277,"text":"跟各位說明的確我們知道在農村地區的缺工的問題很嚴重那所以目前其實也跟農糧署這邊或者是跟農業部這邊我們其實在合作這個農業移工的合給的情況其實我們願意來跟農業部來討論怎麼樣加速因為這裡面的程序"},{"start":440.819,"end":461.637,"text":"有些是劳动部的有些是在农业部的所以说是跨部会的一个合作因为你从一万二到两万事实上我们看到了这一个数字可是问题就是说这个数字是不是可以真正的落实到这个农村里头来因为你还卡了一个一个本劳一个外劳本劳就差不过了"},{"start":462.645,"end":478.691,"text":"本來就沒辦法所以這個畜牧業這個畜牧產業有很多是家族式的為什麼他沒有辦法因為他請不到工人所以連他的女兒都是一起跳下來要養豬要養雞這個是存在的我們南部很大的一個畜牧困境"},{"start":479.031,"end":496.019,"text":"是那個委員其實我覺得針對這個核發的或者申請跟核發的程序面的話我們跟農業部在討論啦因為其實我們在前一輪裡面我們已經盡量把勞動部這一端的程序盡量收到最短把它收到一個禮拜對不對我記得是"},{"start":496.539,"end":517.054,"text":"可是我們招募的部分他跟農業部申請了以後要90天才有辦法到勞動部這裡來那雖然你這一端已經縮短了可是農業部那一端還是拉到90天所以我覺得這個是需要一個跨部會大家共同再來討論那個你剛才講90天部分是他的效期"},{"start":517.594,"end":540.015,"text":"他的校期對這是指的是他的校期那好那如果一個農業移工從申請到進來你們最短的時間可以拉到多久如果在國內承接的話速度就很快對但是因為如果涉及到海外的話還有在海外招工跟挑工的階段這部分就比較難"},{"start":541.226,"end":560.092,"text":"一概而論的說有一個固定的數字可是部長其實基本上海外的一個招募本來就是移工的一個大眾對不對所以這個存在的困難就是在這個地方那我們還是希望就是跨部會的一個討論那也特別跟部長做一個"},{"start":561.112,"end":575.778,"text":"提醒真的畜牧的一個移工非常非常的缺如果我們的畜牧產業要升級的話不是只有就是說智慧的一個設計而已這個人啊人的那個問題是要強化來解決"},{"start":577.219,"end":602.991,"text":"跟我說明其實我們有看到這個狀況那當然因為這個名額的申請其實會是目的事業主管機關來申請所以如果農業部有這個需求那也明確大家確認是有這個需求那在額度上名額上面要再做調整的話我想我們都是可以很開放的來討論的那在程序面我們也願意跟農業部一起來看怎麼樣縮短讓我們的農民朋友讓我們的農會讓我們地方上面最重要的產業能夠更方便"},{"start":604.672,"end":621.746,"text":"謝謝部長部長我對你有期待因為你剛你跟我做過同事我知道你的能力是非常好的所以期待就是台灣的農業我們可以看到救世主好謝謝非常謝謝賴慧雲發言也謝謝部長跟同仁的答詢"}]}},{"id":"165309","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165309","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3cb5af14b3c65f45f906ee7c1e9a76e5acc7208a858208f5cab3cf16057514ebe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝龍介","委員發言時間":"12:07:14 - 12:13:52","影片長度":"00:06:38","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T12:07:14+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:13:52+08:00","duration":398,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.04534375,"end":18.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.10346875,"end":22.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.12034375,"end":22.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.980968750000002,"end":26.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.76471875,"end":32.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.970968750000004,"end":33.595343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.595343750000005,"end":33.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.83159375,"end":35.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.00409375,"end":39.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.19346875,"end":42.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.619093750000005,"end":48.900968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.930343750000006,"end":53.119718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.423468750000005,"end":53.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.963468750000004,"end":54.284093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.431593750000005,"end":56.697218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.080968750000004,"end":59.61659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.156593750000006,"end":60.78096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.28721875,"end":62.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.244718750000004,"end":64.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.57346875,"end":67.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.02034375000001,"end":73.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.02346875,"end":76.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.18346875,"end":78.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.05221875000001,"end":80.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.68909375,"end":84.06846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.22034375000001,"end":89.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.46409375,"end":91.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.08846875,"end":91.45971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.64096875,"end":93.28221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.53534375000001,"end":96.25221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.72471875000001,"end":96.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.97784375,"end":97.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.02846875,"end":97.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.97346875000001,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.64721875000001,"end":108.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.31784375000001,"end":115.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.52846875,"end":110.79846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.73471875000001,"end":115.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.84409375000001,"end":118.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.34159375,"end":121.95284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.54784375000001,"end":126.62721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.93534375,"end":130.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.83784375000002,"end":130.59284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.95971875,"end":133.51221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.25034375,"end":137.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.54534375,"end":137.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.22034375,"end":145.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.74659375000002,"end":146.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.78034375000001,"end":145.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.01221875000002,"end":151.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.69909375,"end":157.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.54221875000002,"end":165.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.59221875,"end":161.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.25409375,"end":165.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.45659375000002,"end":166.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.92471875,"end":167.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.09346875,"end":167.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.11034375,"end":168.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.13971875000001,"end":173.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.08034375,"end":170.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.87721875,"end":175.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.89409375000002,"end":174.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.39596875,"end":177.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.47159375,"end":177.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.58971875,"end":177.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.78784375,"end":182.31471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.83784375000002,"end":188.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.42346875,"end":188.69346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.52034375000002,"end":196.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.24909375000001,"end":200.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.74221875,"end":204.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.41284375,"end":205.07909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.31096875,"end":210.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.37346875,"end":230.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.02471875,"end":229.15971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.71221875,"end":233.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.72909375,"end":231.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.20534375000003,"end":235.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.80846875,"end":243.04784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.12471875000003,"end":239.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.92596875,"end":240.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.65534375000001,"end":244.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.32596875000002,"end":249.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.25784375,"end":249.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.27471875,"end":249.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.29159375,"end":249.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.30846875,"end":249.40971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.40971875000002,"end":249.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.47721875000002,"end":249.51096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.51096875000002,"end":249.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.52784375000002,"end":249.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.81471875000003,"end":250.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.53159375,"end":259.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.78784375000004,"end":264.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.18784375,"end":281.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.23159375,"end":284.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.86409375,"end":288.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.45409375,"end":290.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.79971875,"end":305.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.82284375,"end":307.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.59034375000005,"end":309.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.97409375,"end":317.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.80409375,"end":319.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.22159375,"end":326.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.14034375,"end":335.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.15221875000003,"end":331.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.46846875,"end":332.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.32471875000005,"end":335.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.21471875000003,"end":336.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.69971875000005,"end":338.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.03284375000004,"end":339.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.55159375,"end":341.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.35721875,"end":345.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.54659375,"end":373.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.30596875000003,"end":375.14534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.88784375,"end":381.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.56221875,"end":380.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.76034375,"end":389.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.87846875,"end":383.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.18534375,"end":389.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.21909375,"end":398.73659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.64471875000004,"end":393.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.80909375000005,"end":394.16346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.75409375000004,"end":395.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.12471875,"end":399.37784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":16.367,"end":25.71,"text":"主席我請主委好 請彭主委主委你好你好這個"},{"start":29.813,"end":47.487,"text":"早期集團的差勒布實在是越來越厲害透過金融體制衝到台灣市民專會我看所有我們這裡的董事 包括地方議會的董事每一個合府處 大家都去幫助忙尤其這個"},{"start":58.117,"end":72.411,"text":"中和的歷史,譬如說我的中和主動幫我做經濟中和的時候我去派出所做筆錄、去分局做筆錄檢測說你這沒東西,不棄手結果人家跟我說,他的中和要再歷史五年"},{"start":80.12,"end":105.535,"text":"如果是用鐵桿卡一日可以拿一萬現在你們金融都AI化全部大家差不多都不喝水了這樣合理嗎報告委員 抱歉我台語不好 我要講公義你講這麼好 你再講你不好第一個 剛剛那個委員講的應該是我們就是有販售那個叫告借戶"},{"start":106.864,"end":126.518,"text":"就是你的帳戶被拿去做一些他已經不去搜了 都請出來為什麼他還要給警示他還沒辦法去那是法務部再去要做的沒有啦 法務部我問你現在變成 來 好來就說他現在可以去申訴 就去做這個我想這是告戒戶啦所以不是你們要求小人這樣做就對了好 來現在有的小人就是這樣"},{"start":135.585,"end":164.808,"text":"銀行主動我請問你你有要求銀行說你若是經市貨達到幾%你要對銀行有一個屏蔽的指標嗎沒有都沒有我們是這樣啦我們是用兩個指標為主第一個就是說你的那個分子是你在那個警示帳戶的占比分母是你在總帳戶的占比你如果說是100%那就很好嘛你市占率多當然就這麼多是合理的"},{"start":165.359,"end":177.191,"text":"但如果這個超過那部分的話代表說你做的比喻我現在要跟你說不是你的問題嘛是因為銀行知道你有這個約束他自己做的所以現在來 銀行自己超前部署啦他覺得你這個中和復營現在把這個經時之後拿來問候我們來問候 他說沒有啊 這款的我們沒有跟約束啊"},{"start":189.719,"end":191.56,"text":"剛才有很多委員也關心這件事情"},{"start":211.451,"end":234.791,"text":"今天來講 去年我們打造專法通過以後有一條呢就是要求銀行要主動的去偵查到不法交易的時候你要做部分跟全部的這些的動作那當然我們在管控警示帳戶警示帳戶從剛剛有委員提到從六萬多一直一路升高這個不好所以我就說希望他們做管控你做管控我都支持是愛不惜"},{"start":235.868,"end":250.431,"text":"不要擴大打擊造成擾民 我跟你講我希望 就是說我現在講的這個落差的你沒有約束 那麼銀行方面會主動敲錢報紙 擴大打擊我跟你們講 為什麼他們覺得沒關係 你們知道嗎因為你們現在之前有要求說這個中央合作如果是幾個月沒訂單的事件是緊急安裝 他們都在請責嘛"},{"start":265.27,"end":288.031,"text":"那麼這在清晨中他就要順便利用這樣他也沒差啦假怕是整個他也沒差啦 不可以這樣啦不可以 本來要維持氣候和運動中間有一個溫馨的信念嘛你今天要用朝鮮補修在這裡做什麼每一個人去喝水的時候 你敢知道他還不算我是早期的 你看我"},{"start":289.525,"end":297.851,"text":"你敢不可以拿回去比在這裡 這裡的勁是正好他變得要去喝幾瓶你的時候 他會跟人家玩我為什麼不可以用那天 我為什麼要來臨櫃你給我用那天旁邊的人聽到就覺得 你是騙多少啦"},{"start":308.739,"end":335.41,"text":"這個先做先社會的問題你知不知道是我知道這個部分因為也很多人陳情我們也非常審慎的認真在處理你現在要怎麼處理第一個我們在前一次第一次發生這件事情我們就把銀行請過來說這原因先搞清楚再來第一個你一定要優化你那個比如說標準不可以隨便亂控接下來發生了怎麼善後怎麼去做到解控主席"},{"start":337.731,"end":354.623,"text":"因為這很破片啦 兩個月內你們重新擬定 連後三盤推延啦主席 我建議說 兩個月內由我們的金管會 再度詢問明確的作業設計"},{"start":358.065,"end":373.913,"text":"什麼可以 什麼案件不可以 就是說經過處罰 釐清過 已經有不起訴 本身已詐欺無赦的這張紙不在列官的出函 你有辦法做到嗎"},{"start":375.914,"end":384.116,"text":"剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才剛才剛才剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才講那個幾個狀況齁我們有阿 剛才"}]}},{"id":"165308","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165308","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3a2164e05ec819bca8abc180ec3481d02cc7208a858208f5c135377653bbc0bde5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"11:58:12 - 12:09:30","影片長度":"00:11:18","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:58:12+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:09:30+08:00","duration":678,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.48971875,"end":9.059093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.430343750000002,"end":11.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.09659375,"end":13.075343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.539093750000003,"end":16.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.06221875,"end":17.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.27284375,"end":47.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.719718750000006,"end":64.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.45534375,"end":70.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.96909375,"end":82.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.66784375,"end":85.08096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.94159375000001,"end":101.16284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.46659375,"end":104.11596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.47034375000001,"end":114.19034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.96659375,"end":132.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.98909375,"end":142.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.81034375000002,"end":167.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.17346875,"end":192.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.03034375000001,"end":203.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.21846875,"end":207.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.10409375,"end":220.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.57034375,"end":252.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.91784375,"end":238.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.63284375,"end":257.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.62784375,"end":262.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.94346875,"end":273.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.45659375,"end":282.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.39596875,"end":346.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.82909375,"end":349.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.05659375000005,"end":359.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.55284375,"end":376.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.36034375,"end":378.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.70596875,"end":397.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.47096875000005,"end":438.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.20284375000006,"end":444.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.98721875,"end":450.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.00284375,"end":475.06221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.61909375000005,"end":480.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.18784375,"end":488.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.59596875000005,"end":489.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.97971875,"end":492.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.00034375,"end":493.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.46846875000006,"end":496.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.57784375000006,"end":497.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.19784375,"end":502.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.05784375,"end":504.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.40346875000006,"end":509.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.04409375000006,"end":515.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.8659687500001,"end":518.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.5615937499999,"end":520.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.3840937500001,"end":525.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.36659375,"end":530.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.6147187500001,"end":532.9265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.6015937500001,"end":544.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.94159375,"end":550.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.42596875,"end":552.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.19346875,"end":556.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.5347187500001,"end":560.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.3484687499999,"end":565.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.5459687499999,"end":566.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.9465937500001,"end":567.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.54534375,"end":574.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.86096875,"end":582.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.64034375,"end":586.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.96471875,"end":589.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.08221875,"end":591.2803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.4109687499999,"end":595.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.7690937500001,"end":604.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.27534375,"end":596.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.5790937500001,"end":596.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.79721875,"end":611.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.58096875,"end":613.1840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.93909375,"end":616.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.07409375,"end":621.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.46596875,"end":622.6340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.43159375,"end":622.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.68471875,"end":626.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.2409687500001,"end":628.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.28284375,"end":630.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.53159375,"end":630.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.3328437499999,"end":633.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.19346875,"end":636.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.58971875,"end":641.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.68596875,"end":642.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.8840937500001,"end":645.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.1072187500001,"end":651.6084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.79846875,"end":653.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.6628437500001,"end":654.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.74721875,"end":655.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.9665937500001,"end":657.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.0634687500001,"end":656.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.3078437500001,"end":660.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.53534375,"end":661.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.9697187500001,"end":662.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.6615937500001,"end":664.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.3828437500001,"end":669.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.63096875,"end":670.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.18346875,"end":673.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":674.28846875,"end":676.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.81971875,"end":677.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.12346875,"end":677.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.22471875,"end":677.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.98409375,"end":678.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.96284375,"end":679.4184687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.854,"end":12.517,"text":"謝謝主席我請運動部鄭世忠市長請市長市長好"},{"start":18.348,"end":46.83,"text":"最近發生一件台灣棒球迷都非常關注而且更加擔憂的事情就是中國的棒球城市聯賽預計明年1月要開打傳出有上海兄弟隊的這個對揮吉祥物跟球衣配色都跟我們中職中信兄弟有高度相似所以球迷就痛批啦說這是在吃我們台灣豆腐嗎雖然現在中國的說法是不會有上海兄弟隊"},{"start":47.791,"end":69.598,"text":"但是我認為我們仍然要非常高度的競爵中國是不是有在準備有意圖的系統性來挖角台灣的棒球球員中國是不是有意圖性的要來掏空台灣的職棒那為什麼呢因為他這個中國聯賽的規定他說每一支球隊30人裡面"},{"start":72.371,"end":84.805,"text":"台灣香港澳門的球員不得少於10人30人裡面台港澳門球員不能少於10人他們最想要的就是台灣的球員所以陸委會其實有給我們示警"},{"start":85.987,"end":113.967,"text":"梁文杰副主委他指出这个中国联赛背后是一家运动行销公司试图要来复制台湾棒球的经验最严重的有可能是还要把大批的台湾球员拉到中国去次长你有没有掌握相关的讯息报告委员我们在几个月前看到这个讯息就有主动跟路友会联系所以也跟中华职棒联系所以我们其实三方都一直在沟通"},{"start":114.997,"end":141.249,"text":"那這部分我們當然有在關注啦那如果違反兩岸關係條例的話然後這部分陸委會不會來出手那在運動部的角色我們當然就是協助中華職棒那更壯大可以來面臨各種挑戰我們希望的高端人才是喜歡留在台灣發展而不是到對岸去好 這個事件喔我們希望它只是單一事件但我們害怕它是系統性的所以一定要高度的警覺 為什麼因為過去我們的半導體產業"},{"start":142.91,"end":167.215,"text":"就曾經發生中國長期在挖角我們半導體工程師要幹嘛 要竊取我們的技術跟經驗所以他這個竊取是國家級的竊取就在去年而已 剪掉就發現有八家中國的企業他偽裝成是橋外資在挖角台灣的工程師然後查下去發現背後的金主甚至有中國的財政部"},{"start":168.263,"end":189.44,"text":"所以他如果是中國政府有系統性有意圖性的要來掏空挖角台灣的棒球的話我們真的要高度的警戒那我也很認同作為政府我們不應該是限制球員發展但是我們要來茁壯打造台灣好的棒球環境這就包括了產業包括了基層棒球包括了職業棒球"},{"start":190.1,"end":203.775,"text":"所以呢目前首先有關於這個對揮抄襲的事件 疑似抄襲的事件如果說將來下一步球團或球員因此有法律上權益的受損運動部我們可不可以全力幫忙支持"},{"start":204.398,"end":218.425,"text":"這個我們一定會來協助啦這個沒有問題好那我剛講到基層棒球因為除了職棒以外這個我們都有所聞啦就中國呢他會利用落地招待的方式來拉攏我們基層棒球去一地訓練這是"},{"start":220.706,"end":230.559,"text":"正在發生的事情所以呢同樣的我們要來支持京城棒球的發展那我看到我們明年有一筆有一筆預算一個是學校運動團隊國際運動交流這一筆的預算是7300萬"},{"start":238.589,"end":256.987,"text":"這邊說我一定支持 全力支持那也請你們要加強跟立法院我們的委員來溝通這很重要好不好因為我們的選手確實你需要從基層開始就要給他有國際交流去訓練的機會但是我們如果不支持他中國政府另一方面用大量的資源投入我落地來招待"},{"start":257.988,"end":271.921,"text":"通通都幫你們出錢那很有可能只有我們是系統性的台灣棒球選手從小就被拉去中國所以這個一定要支持我們來投注基層的這個棒球那同時呢棒球之所以在台灣為國球"},{"start":273.762,"end":288.439,"text":"國人大家都味為風尚非常的關注也很喜愛那我們的產業值棒到今年已經36年了這是中國追不上的此外我們有非常深的底蘊台灣棒球是百年歷史日本時代1906年"},{"start":289.4,"end":305.166,"text":"台北一中也就是現在建國中學成立了台灣第一支棒球隊1907年新公園棒球場就是現在的228是成立了第一座棒球全台的棒球場因為這兩個都剛好在我的選區台北市中正區所以我也很關切我想喔"},{"start":306.187,"end":313.473,"text":"我們台灣的棒球不是中國來抄一個logo就可以抄得走的所以我希望我們運動部還是要持續的去投注資源在我們剛剛說的產業基層跟職棒上面讓我們的棒球環境可以讓我們的選手他們願意而且值得留下來"},{"start":324.682,"end":346.486,"text":"那除了剛剛市長你承諾的以外呢你知道這個國家運動博物館我們委會大家也都很關切那我們運動部現在已經編列了明年我看到你們兩筆預算一個是辦理運動文化中長城推動計畫500萬一個是建置國家運動博物館可行性評估目前有沒有相關的內容了"},{"start":346.886,"end":373.097,"text":"報告委員 在中程的計畫這部分當然牽涉到除了盤點之外最主要是展示以及後面的商轉這部分我們原則上可能會請我們在體育史方面的專家林玫君老師來協助我們做一個整體的規劃博物館的評估方面也是另外一個專案我們目前請在博物館方面非常有經驗的謝思淵教授也來做這個協助的可行性的評估"},{"start":373.417,"end":396.76,"text":"所以這兩個計畫在明年1月1號開始會來正式來進行所以這需要一點時間好 因為過去在立法院我們也開過公聽會運動文化記憶保存那我只是要提醒其實運動部過去體育署也不是你們現在做運動文化記憶也不是從零開始有些過去累積的基礎例如我們有辦過運動產業博覽會當時有做過一批的史料整理這個要去把它找出來"},{"start":397.581,"end":408.547,"text":"我聽說還是有散落各地的情形把它找出來這個當時做過的史料都可以來承接繼續去累積第二個我們要跨部會合作我上週也幫你們諮詢了文化部文化部跟運動部我們現在其實有一些專案都在合作當中例如說明年亞運我們的這個台史博就有籌備要做亞運的特展等等要來做跨部會的合作那甚至像我們的國科會也有台灣運動文化"},{"start":423.715,"end":436.353,"text":"研究專案的計畫我想這個都是我們很好的一個基礎我們很期待可以趕快把國家運動博物館能夠來啟用那除了內容上面現在我們可以同步進行的事情是什麼市長你知道嗎就是選址啊"},{"start":439.466,"end":456.302,"text":"不然你這內容規劃好了才要開始選址包括我們在選址的部分目前有沒有想法目前的規劃就是連同運動部未來的位置跟博物館的位置我們都一起來尋找好 我這邊做一個提議就如同我剛剛所說的就在我的選區台北市中正區有台灣第一支棒球隊有台灣第一個棒球場而我目前我看過因為周遭的這個國有土地多"},{"start":461.867,"end":478.401,"text":"目前其實有潛力的這個公有空間建築的所以呢我建議你們可以來進行一個盤點那有需要跨部會協調我也很樂意來協助好那第三點要跟次長討論就在去年就在去年抱歉這個我會比較有情緒去年我在這裡就質詢過次長攔血"},{"start":481.52,"end":508.896,"text":"這麼一個單項協會召開會員大會竟然連自己的張誠理事長當時都沒有遵守張誠就在主持會議當時市長你是這個勃然大怒啊你說一定去警告有沒有去警告了有去喊警告嗎 給夠勒今年又來啦藍協的會員來跟我們陳情說藍協的會員大會今年第一次5月本來要召開留會這個月11月1號預計要召開第二次再度留會"},{"start":510.137,"end":520.75,"text":"所以今年度來到現在已經11月了藍鞋的會員大會到現在都沒開成導致他的預算工作計畫會員都不知道次長你有沒有訊息掌握"},{"start":521.414,"end":537.908,"text":"有 報告委員這部分也反映出我們在開放全民參與特定體育團體的選舉其實也不難看到很多的協會比較不正常的協會會開始利用一些類似人頭的狀況來加入"},{"start":540.31,"end":567.413,"text":"那加入很多人和會員的缺點就是你會員大會就開不成所以目前籃球協會有一方突然在今年加入了300個另外一邊加入了兩三百個這樣加一加其實會員大會根本開不成那這個是目前我們面臨到的問題啦所以這部分我們現在也是會我想競技室這邊會跟籃協這邊會拒絕連會員大會都開不成這樣的單項協會說要保障選手權益說要公開透明做得到嗎"},{"start":569.605,"end":590.903,"text":"如果沒有召開會員大會按照我們人民團體法這有沒有違法包委員我過去曾經撤換過一位理事長當時他是第四次開不成的時候我把他報告給內政部把他撤換掉我曾經做過這件事情如果沒有召開會員大會直接違反人民團體法那我們"},{"start":592.644,"end":611.818,"text":"單向協會我們一直在要求就是他們要公正透明嘛對不對你說什麼預算通過離間是可以通過問題是你沒有開會員大會會員都不知道你們在搞什麼東西既不公正也不透明我們不能允許這樣的事情一再發生市長去年你就去選警告了結果今年人家不甩你啊繼續開不成會員大會"},{"start":614.963,"end":626.15,"text":"你們運動部要怎麼做去年是李市長沒有親自出席沒錯我的意思是說有規定在他就一再不遵守規定嘛是法律規定為無誤嘛看不起你們運動部嘛來市長你現在要怎麼做幫委員目前"},{"start":633.373,"end":654.727,"text":"我們現在基本上是他們3月就要改選的啦那我們現在是已經把他們的所有的會員名冊都已經統整起來那現在因為我們在要撤換理事長部分我們還是要經得內政部的同意啦那我跟你講兩次流會我想可能我這邊要求就是運動部你們要積極介入積極介入積極的監管"},{"start":658.362,"end":678.322,"text":"他們要開會你們都應該要派人到現場有我沒有派人我沒有到現場我們不能讓這樣子連基本的規定都無法遵守的協會來去掌握我們選手這麼多這麼多重大的事物請你們要趕快去積極的介入好嗎好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"165307","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165307","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3439b01f35a032eac906ee7c1e9a76e5acc7208a858208f5c0c497b3694df335b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"12:00:09 - 12:07:08","影片長度":"00:06:59","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T12:00:09+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:07:08+08:00","duration":419,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.88534375,"end":17.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.31471875,"end":51.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.785968750000002,"end":29.157218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.17409375,"end":29.190968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.58409375,"end":62.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.35034375,"end":62.586593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.586593750000006,"end":76.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.98096875,"end":77.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.03159375,"end":78.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.95534375000001,"end":89.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.96659375,"end":90.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.02534375,"end":93.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.41284375000001,"end":104.72346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.84159375,"end":118.99971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.66846875,"end":105.75284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.11971875,"end":107.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.16846875,"end":123.87659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.91034375000001,"end":128.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.66909375,"end":135.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.31784375,"end":141.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.45596875,"end":149.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.79659375,"end":151.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.24784375000002,"end":164.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.26471875000001,"end":151.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.68659375000001,"end":152.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.95471875,"end":165.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.93346875,"end":189.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.25471875000002,"end":198.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.07159375,"end":204.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.02846875,"end":229.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.17221875,"end":236.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.02784375000002,"end":236.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.23034375,"end":236.28096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.28096875000003,"end":236.29784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.29784375000003,"end":236.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.48346875000001,"end":255.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.83909375000002,"end":275.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.19909375000003,"end":296.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.67284375,"end":294.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.93409375000005,"end":296.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.64284375,"end":297.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.60471875,"end":311.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.62159375000005,"end":298.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.30284375,"end":329.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.78534375000004,"end":381.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.80221875,"end":330.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.75909375000003,"end":335.94471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.03284375000004,"end":340.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.83784375000005,"end":345.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.43846875,"end":362.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.38659375000003,"end":370.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.85471875,"end":372.22596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.30159375000005,"end":374.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.96721875000003,"end":390.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.34159375,"end":388.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.53096875,"end":397.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.03221875,"end":418.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.58721875000003,"end":409.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.42659375000005,"end":412.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.62846875,"end":417.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.85159375,"end":419.44221875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":13.925,"end":31.512,"text":"好主席謝謝麻煩請我們彭主委請彭主委好喂好彭主委金管會是我們國內非常重要的這個金融管理單位那大家都是很認真的在工作謝謝但是我想最近太子集團詐騙案讓國人嘩然那其中"},{"start":35.754,"end":62.052,"text":"很多人根本是有一样的疑虑就说我们都已经有那么多的一些监管了但是数十亿的资金到底怎么流入台湾以及为何过去那么长的一个时间内我们没有示警或是警觉到所以能不能说明一下因为两个部分第一现在有报道出来讲说这太子诈骗集团他们的资金有45亿被扣押代表说有45亿应该是从海外进来的嘛"},{"start":62.732,"end":80.358,"text":"對那這是透過金流他不是帶現金吧對 他是從海外匯款居多是 那海外匯款居多大多數啦因為不太可能他是他也沒有講說他帶現金進來嘛那只要海外匯款進來一定都會有所謂的金流嘛橋外資投資都要經過一定的這個管道審核是"},{"start":81.098,"end":92.413,"text":"那再加上他現在買了很多的豪宅名車也都是用匯款吧還是他們用現金或是用銀行支票支付是 所以這就變成兩層問題第一"},{"start":94.522,"end":118.305,"text":"主委能不能因為現在我也看到是說我們有媒體報導甚至昨天高檢署還有針對找相關部會來講其實講的問題也是一樣對 其實高檢署我們都跟他密切的合作就是昨天那個會議應該前天的會議也是我們聯繫以後大家趕快來做希望成立一個跨部會的工作小組來處理這件事情因為確實剛剛委員所關心的問題"},{"start":119.386,"end":141.458,"text":"整個金流的部分是我們整個國家反洗錢的機制裡面銀行所負責的就是對那個異常交易的通報然後去把各種的情資集中以後再來預判接下來我們要做什麼犯罪增防的動作我想剛剛講說這個被突破了這整個來講我覺得整個體系大家都要好好來檢討一下"},{"start":142.538,"end":170.884,"text":"你該規定的都做了為什麼他還能夠突破這件事情就是一個犯例的本身本來犯罪的手法不斷的在提高過去我們的手法可能沒辦法攔住到我們現在就是這就是一般普羅大眾老百姓想問的過去幾年一個個人戶頭要交一個30萬 40萬不到50萬可能都臨櫃會被行員來詢問關心都還有那個網路上都還有交戰守則是說你要講說是要用什麼樣的用途對不對"},{"start":172.085,"end":188.182,"text":"但是本席现在想要问的也想了解的是说那为什么你刚刚你讲这些其实都是大家想要问的问题其实那过去这几年到底我们是都管一般老百姓反而对于那种跨国公司海外公司然后完全没有去设防"},{"start":188.542,"end":204.153,"text":"當然不是 當然不是我覺得就剛剛那個林委員也在質詢這相同我跟他講 當一個案子已經發生你在回推的時候感覺好像就是怎麼會沒看到但我們今天竟然每天這個交易這麼大的時候我們只能透過預警系統來做這件事情"},{"start":205.094,"end":229.333,"text":"我剛講說這整個制度的話如果說只因為一個案子就說我們整個失靈應該不是我覺得我們在很多細節沒辦法這邊公開說明他確實在資金匯入的過程當中不如我們想像就好像我就把一筆錢就進來不是他有非常非常複雜說這是我們請我們檢察局同仁在整個來釐清的過程還有就是整個未來豪宅豪車的交易的流程"},{"start":230.214,"end":254.44,"text":"不是涉及到金流還涉及到比如說我們的地震室代輸很多這個環節這些都是要跨部我們趕快來彌補才是重點主委 不要誤解本席的意思本席開宗明義就講因為我認為說您上任之後確實我們在討論很多次防炸的部分你也確實有做一些功課也做一些積極的作為所以說在金管這一塊面我其實是還是以抱持正向肯定但我要講的是說"},{"start":255.905,"end":273.465,"text":"他不是一個小數目第一45億那他是不管是化整為零進來那本息也算啦如果45億過去這七年他平均一年也六七億啊那如果說對比一個個人戶五十萬的金流都要被詢問的時候那他一年六七億怎麼樣降進來"},{"start":274.826,"end":294.157,"text":"一個部分委員這個簡單說明一下一個是境外投資進來它是一個以反洗錢的角度或是境外資金來源的審查的模式剛剛說民眾去領錢提錢是銀行覺得你可能有被詐騙的可能性他做一個關懷這兩個是一個是防詐是不同的"},{"start":294.577,"end":311.072,"text":"所以說他的金額標準認定可能也會有很大的不同他的那個啟動的方式是不一樣就比如說我今天我們現場的行為很辛苦他看你神色慌張或是你講的就是他們標準的套路對不對他一定會加以光環比如說你買黃金做裝潢這個他們都很有警覺心的"},{"start":312.372,"end":337.072,"text":"那當然我的意思說假設你今天是一個我們正常我們就鼓勵外資來投資台灣其實坦白講這就是一個任何國家的政策但比如以他這個犯罪團伙來看他在全世界突破了很多很多國家的這個國際洗錢的規範這也是我們要做國際合作還有就是我們自己要好好來檢討是 主委其實您剛剛講到重點本期也在講是說因為這不只太極集團我們再去了解也不只是只有台灣受害"},{"start":337.532,"end":354.267,"text":"新加坡 英國 美國都受害所以說才啟動甚至它在新加坡的資產可能更多對 英國也是更多是 但本身現在想好 所以說兩個部分啦我覺得這就是變成是我們之後還有檢討的空間這一點那另外第二點也是它進來到台灣的資金"},{"start":356.248,"end":380.456,"text":"轉化成實體的一些部分然後變成是他有點大家講說洗錢的一個手法所以包括說買豪宅買民車那相對來講這些豪宅民車他的成交樣本是比較屬於高單價也是比較屬於金字塔相對來講成交的數量也會比較少所以未來針對這個部分如果說有成交然後他的資金來源的部分是不是有要更"},{"start":381.817,"end":400.911,"text":"確實剛剛委員提到我們這次也藉由這個案例我們未來對豪車豪宅的金流的掌控我們會來重新來思考整套的流程應該如何防篤這樣的一個方法但是細節不能在這邊說是 我想還是提醒因為本席已經看到我覺得說過去照理講"},{"start":401.932,"end":417.454,"text":"以過去金管會這樣子的狀況不應該發生但是既然已經發生了我們就要想說怎麼樣透過這發生的事件把漏洞給補起來沒錯所以說既然已經有那就請金管會這邊再更加重視我們會持續努力好不好謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165306","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165306","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3287d3cae5a121ce5b3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5c3f1c478c5b52ad615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"11:53:59 - 12:01:06","影片長度":"00:07:07","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:53:59+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:01:06+08:00","duration":427,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.443468750000001,"end":10.493468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.134718750000001,"end":11.910968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.93971875,"end":17.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.496593750000002,"end":26.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.71034375,"end":48.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.71534375,"end":52.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.119718750000004,"end":57.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.92909375,"end":63.548468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.750968750000006,"end":66.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.75471875000001,"end":86.97096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.11471875000001,"end":85.53659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.20721875000001,"end":104.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.87659375000001,"end":97.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.62221875,"end":105.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.55034375000001,"end":108.06471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.23346875,"end":116.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.58659375,"end":121.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.64909375,"end":124.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.04534375,"end":124.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.97346875000001,"end":130.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.59721875,"end":130.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.67721875,"end":137.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.13596875000002,"end":145.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.26971875,"end":159.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.41534375,"end":167.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.97096875,"end":182.77034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.87159375000002,"end":185.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.25096875,"end":187.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.59659375,"end":200.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.80971875,"end":209.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.53409375,"end":235.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.97721875000002,"end":242.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.84534375,"end":243.19971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.09846875000002,"end":259.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.62971875000002,"end":246.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.51971875,"end":248.09346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.23659375000003,"end":250.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.75034375,"end":257.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.00721875,"end":265.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.40721875,"end":279.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.14784375,"end":294.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.23596875000004,"end":281.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.58159375,"end":284.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.11221875,"end":290.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.70221875000004,"end":300.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.07284375,"end":299.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.30909375000005,"end":299.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.41846875000005,"end":303.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.81471875,"end":309.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.07596875,"end":306.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.30346875000004,"end":309.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.61971875,"end":326.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.07471875000005,"end":316.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.73534375,"end":326.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.41034375000004,"end":328.77284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.33409375,"end":328.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.87409375000004,"end":338.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.92409375,"end":333.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.70784375,"end":341.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.51346875,"end":352.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.75221875,"end":355.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.29596875000004,"end":362.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.59034375000005,"end":369.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.62721875,"end":370.08284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.81284375,"end":370.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.33596875,"end":375.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.60096875000005,"end":376.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.82034375,"end":376.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.88346875,"end":382.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.58721875000003,"end":394.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.29846875000004,"end":400.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.81659375000004,"end":404.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.59284375000004,"end":401.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.99346875000003,"end":402.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.66409375,"end":412.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.00971875000005,"end":406.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.29971875,"end":421.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.66659375,"end":415.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.22284375000004,"end":420.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.28596875000005,"end":425.77034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.81721875000005,"end":425.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.82096875,"end":426.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.47471875,"end":428.97659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.485,"end":11.774,"text":"好 謝謝召委 我們與會同仁請我們陸委會我們的邱主委請邱主委"},{"start":17.24,"end":44.188,"text":"好 各位好 各位我看今天大家都是關心兩岸的觀光的問題那本期這邊有觀光署的資料我們在7月份光是出境的人口成長到1087萬人次出國然後進來入境的才有435萬那嫌疏真的有過大"},{"start":44.668,"end":65.936,"text":"因為我們出去旅遊的人數跟進來都不成比例那我看我們那個小山通啊小山通就是7月份36.5萬人次那雖然是成長但是他畢竟過來的只是在金門跟馬祖那這個你在入境台灣的"},{"start":67.177,"end":86.731,"text":"的人數還是相對的減少那是不是未來有沒有希望說未來開放入客人來台灣這樣才能平衡我們的出入境的平衡點讓台灣的觀光產業也能帶動起來這是我們陸委會要去研究"},{"start":87.29,"end":115.838,"text":"是跟委員報告我們都有跟包括觀光組跟相關的部會在討論這個兩岸是不是透過觀光小兩會的溝通來讓更多的中國大陸的旅客到台灣來跟委員報告我們的政策是這樣我們歡迎入客來台的政策沒有改變我們也是希望能夠透過觀光小兩會討論完儘速恢復兩岸的觀光的交流"},{"start":116.658,"end":137.206,"text":"那我們希望藉由這次開放的機會把過去入客來台的一些可能的亂象還有對業者沒有保障的說停就停 說斷就斷業者血本無歸還有光光一條龍的現象這個對於光光的這個公平性也不"},{"start":138.186,"end":147.973,"text":"另外對於觀光的安全兩岸旅遊的安全跟品質我們希望透過這個能夠小兩會溝通再來開放這樣對台灣最能夠有保障我要跟委員報告我們也曾經要做民調在上個月有做民調也有73%的民眾支持政府目前我們先透過觀光小兩會先溝通再來開放的做法這樣最能夠很穩健"},{"start":168.235,"end":186.155,"text":"在這個之前我們操之在我的部分我們一方面讓其他在第三國第三地的大陸籍人士能夠透過我們外港到我們台灣來那像今年的人數就比疫情之前還要多那包括這個"},{"start":188.619,"end":198.913,"text":"從金門馬祖進來的這些旅客我們也在優化相關的措施那這些操作在我部分之外呢我們希望中國大陸能夠"},{"start":201.028,"end":205.932,"text":"對於我們提出來的這個觀光小兩會的協商能夠重視至少可以回復我們透過溝通再來開放陸客來台我想這個對兩岸都是比較好的畢竟兩岸已經很多年沒有接觸我們如何讓"},{"start":221.124,"end":233.218,"text":"觀光的旅遊能夠更熟悉彼此對於急難救助需要幫忙的人能夠啟動建立相關的機制都是需要由觀光小兩會來討論以上"},{"start":236.001,"end":259.284,"text":"好 主委真的你也是很用心但是我們還是要想出辦法只要不涉及統戰的話是不是大陸也能組團就開放的幅度把它拉大因為這樣才能平衡我們整個觀光的產業因為我們也不要限制說因為有很多宗教的交流體育的交流也有很多只要不涉及我們的政治不涉及"},{"start":260.563,"end":266.488,"text":"他們的統戰那我們這應該是我們還鼓勵他們才對啊是委員講的很好委員講除了觀光之外有很多的專業交流團各式各樣的商務人士我們都只要是沒有統戰的經過我們輔導的我們都積極的來協助他們你們設計一套機制嘛然後你審核的速度也要快嘛等到幾天了你才說這個不行那個不行"},{"start":288.107,"end":303.412,"text":"这样影响他们的行程影响他们一些大家都是旅游业嘛那旅游业他们的薪生应该你也要广纳旅游业他们的薪生来做总和嘛只要不涉及统战不涉及我们的政治"},{"start":304.236,"end":315.12,"text":"我們都是放開手吧讓我們的產業帶動起來這才是我們的根本嘛我們跟海基會也跟旅遊這個業的這些各個團體我們經常都跟他們座談一起討論"},{"start":319.441,"end":335.198,"text":"其實絕大部分的旅遊業者也都支持政府目前的做法我們會持續努力謝謝委員最主要是我們這個餅要把它做大是然後本市還關心就是我們這個電商平台電商平台現在我們是會做租溫的問題吧我們的疫情的問題那很多的"},{"start":339.775,"end":361.398,"text":"平台他們所包裹進來的很多都是我們要管制的有很多有弱品的產產因為我們還曾經查獲這一點是不孝的業者我們該下架就要下架一定要跟他們做為整個統籌讓我們台灣這個疫情能早路過去"},{"start":362.682,"end":381.821,"text":"是委員講的很對不過我要跟委員報告有關陸資電商平台我們政府在政策上還沒有開放現在來的他都是透過跟中國的這個電商平台自行購買那我們相關單位也在攔阻這些委員說擔心像非洲豬瘟的這個商品到台灣來"},{"start":383.082,"end":399.419,"text":"那這部分進一步的歸管這些從大陸來的這些商品目前相關的部會都在積極的嚴格查處當中大陸那個淘寶他們很多平台電商台灣人還是很多在購買"},{"start":400.72,"end":423.23,"text":"他們是跟中國淘寶買我們沒有同意他來這邊合法但是還是很多的商品在台灣你落品的話你還是要去管制因為非洲豬瘟我看理科大家都很自愛那我們是從包裹這一邊來管制應該會比較好是 相關部會都有在進行了好的 謝謝謝謝吳委員謝謝吳齊平委員"}]}},{"id":"165289","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165289","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe34c30c7928caa90f1906ee7c1e9a76e5acc7208a858208f5c628ecc4a3d608f005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"11:53:49 - 12:00:03","影片長度":"00:06:14","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:53:49+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:00:03+08:00","duration":374,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.117843750000002,"end":13.615343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.15909375,"end":29.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.74784375,"end":32.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.40971875,"end":40.024718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.53096875,"end":46.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.26409375,"end":47.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.49596875,"end":49.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.01471875,"end":50.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.892218750000005,"end":51.195968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.195968750000006,"end":51.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.039718750000006,"end":52.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.44471875,"end":55.29659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.88721875,"end":58.283468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.38034375,"end":64.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.23596875,"end":98.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.69909375,"end":117.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.02534375,"end":122.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.08346875000001,"end":133.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.28096875,"end":128.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.79909375,"end":134.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.72721875000002,"end":138.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.21596875,"end":141.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.89909375000002,"end":142.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.97909375,"end":147.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.14284375,"end":152.47971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.10409375,"end":158.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.97659375,"end":170.62034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.65409375000002,"end":170.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.89034375,"end":186.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.80346875,"end":188.23784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.40659375,"end":195.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.79784375,"end":197.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.94096875000002,"end":202.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.56471875000003,"end":219.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.62534375,"end":245.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.70909375000002,"end":224.95784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.45971875,"end":227.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.03909375,"end":259.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.14221875000004,"end":260.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.15909375,"end":260.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.17596875000004,"end":260.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.56409375000004,"end":260.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.66534375000003,"end":292.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.61034375,"end":262.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.20909375,"end":264.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.36034375,"end":268.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.06034375,"end":272.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.46096875,"end":273.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.81846875,"end":280.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.77846875,"end":292.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.96409375,"end":314.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.51659375,"end":294.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.68346875000003,"end":306.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.53471875,"end":313.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.73284375000003,"end":317.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.08284375,"end":317.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.50034375,"end":317.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.78721875,"end":340.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.67409375,"end":350.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.60909375,"end":352.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.65971875,"end":350.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.82846875,"end":351.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.36409375,"end":367.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.81534375,"end":354.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.21409375,"end":367.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.77096875,"end":373.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.93909375000004,"end":372.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.13284375,"end":374.48721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.345,"end":13.511,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請主委好 請碰主委"},{"start":17.319,"end":43.947,"text":"委員好主委好所以現在這個金管會推動普惠的金融那這樣子的措施我是肯定的因為不管怎麼樣要讓廣大的這個民眾能夠實現有感的政策我想這是很重要的可是現在我包含我自己我們現在民眾我們街道包含所有的這種簡訊的時候我覺得是有一點認知過災數位過災為什麼因為數位部現在推111"},{"start":47.321,"end":64.088,"text":"政府簡訊可是詐團又會用維基地台來去偽冒然後金管會他向民眾宣傳說不要點擊要輸入各自的簡訊連結然後也有在數位部又在推GOV.TW的安全連結"},{"start":65.345,"end":85.647,"text":"所以说我刚才讲的这一串我自己都搞不太清楚所以到底是要点还是不要点要点但是不要点击那些要求输入个资的简讯连结但是如果我点的话它是政府的简讯吗它可能是政府的简讯但是它可能又被这个诈骗集团来伪冒所以现在这种认知过载数位过载的状况那事实上是存现的"},{"start":86.047,"end":94.642,"text":"那現在台灣的事實查核中心的報告也有證實是很多民眾真的把比方說我舉例中國信通的通知信當成是詐團來去舉報我也看過那個簡訊那怎麼辦"},{"start":98.792,"end":120.01,"text":"主委你現在就是說現在這種完全各司其職也好或者是說多頭馬車也好我們看到重複的不同的訊息在累積那這樣子民眾他怎麼樣第一時間知道到底要信哪一個到底要聽哪一個蘇衛部 NCC 還是金管會你怎麼看這件事情確實委員問了一個非常非常困難的問題"},{"start":120.991,"end":147.457,"text":"剛才講說就像我現在個人接到一個電話基本上如果不認識我幾乎都不太能接我想很多人都這樣就跟剛剛委員提到數位過載或資訊過載的問題大家已經很擔心這問題確實說我們在提醒客戶的過程當中我們從我們的角度講說任何跟你比如說陌生人教你發財這個要注意再來叫你點個資要特別小心這是提醒"},{"start":148.177,"end":170.137,"text":"但是有時候你真的也會跟政府直接往來你就是要做這件事情反而會產生一個阻礙我也曾經接過一個很多年接過一個說國稅局說我中獎了我也不相信我把它掛了實際上後來我真的中獎所以實際上真的這個概念上確實我覺得剛剛委員這問題不好回答但是我們還是會先以提醒就是說我們知道的事情先以提醒但是怎麼樣"},{"start":171.098,"end":194.498,"text":"建構更安全像剛剛委員講的1111也有人用那個遮蓋的方式去做到這件事情確實很厲害就是說道高一尺 謀高一丈但是我覺得對普羅大眾可以接受的方式還是我們先來做先提醒這部分至於說很特殊的情況的話那我們也會來考慮就是說就像我們現在金融機構過去1111的時候我們現在也來想想看這件事情是不是有些其他的方案"},{"start":195.859,"end":214.202,"text":"我只能用這樣的方式先暫時等我們想到全班式的作為的時候我們再來處理這個問題像有沒有可能就是不要各自多頭馬車因為變成說現在警政署他到我們下鄉來去宣導的時候他等於是說到底是要用哪一個作為準則就是一個大問題"},{"start":215.023,"end":233.528,"text":"因为现在可能会简化成说那你就不要所有的简讯都不要读不要看不要回那这样子的话那时候有些时候是紧急推波你告诉你说你的这个账号受影响的时候你又会认为他是诈骗账号就防卫过档了对那所以说是不是由金管会当然主要的跨部会协调者以你们的基准为基准"},{"start":233.988,"end":252.695,"text":"再去跟數位部數位部跟NCC也好他是協助你們作為金融因為你是第一線接觸金融機關的你們可能會更了解實際上面的需求有沒有可能讓你們作為統整的這個機構我想這件事情我們會因為我們定期在林秉新政委主持的那個打詐的部分我想可以把這個建議拿出來討論"},{"start":254.115,"end":277.177,"text":"因為像確實統一這個東西也好做但是就是說統一也比較容易被突破當然所以說這個就是一樣就是你要尋求這個平衡但是也可能會被分別突破那這怎麼辦呢那必須要從變民跟這一個主柵之中找一個這一定的一定要那最後我趕快因為時間的關係趕快問另外一個問題就是關於服務僵化"},{"start":277.517,"end":292.196,"text":"也是體感的落差因為我們講普惠嘛但是跟體感落差比方說這個有很多的鄉親他在上個月他在股票密碼股票的帳戶的密碼要更改可是他被要求要到本人要到原開戶分行去處理"},{"start":293.197,"end":317.339,"text":"主委現在是2025年這是我覺得有點荒謬因為他在台北工作但是他要回到高雄他要回到雲林他要回到嘉義然後為了改個密碼再專程回去但是他自己本人親自臨櫃到他的台北的總公司都不行請問這個方式是怎麼辦怎麼樣去處理我知道我們9月25號有啟動金融Face ID的驗證的轉接中心可是為什麼還有類似這樣子的出現類似來剛開始我們就是想擴大事辦"},{"start":318.319,"end":339.173,"text":"我們現在是希望他們能夠盡量來擴大就是說我只要在一個地方認證在其他地方就可以使用就免除我們在數位體驗上不好的感覺剛剛委員剛剛講到了就跟前面有委員說那個金門鄉親的問題還想說是不是一定要到原來的那個據點去做這件事情才能完成什麼這我們會確實來了解看看怎麼樣減少這個變化"},{"start":340.294,"end":365.45,"text":"我簡單回覆就是說因為我們在辦開戶的時候現在台灣的金融要花五六個小時七八個小時這個大家都知道也在詬病那一定會做一件事情就是照相照相之後而且簽名照相等等其實你可以做這些生物特徵的查核那個應該是不困難我們不要說為了要避免詐騙然後把這個金融變得非常複雜化那也會影響到外國人投資的意願資本也很難進來台灣"},{"start":367.912,"end":371.501,"text":"這是好建議 我們會來思考怎麼樣把剛剛的問題把它解決好 謝謝謝謝 謝偉"}]}},{"id":"17026","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17026","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc456f1a8eac090e919652e807a0f93f53914d0d15f34b2c02a0898053d17f4b0a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2025-11-12","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2025-11-12T08:36:26+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:20:00+08:00","duration":13414,"影片長度":"03:43:34","委員發言時間":"08:36:26 - 12:20:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1484.2884687500002,"end":1488.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1490.53221875,"end":1494.9703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1494.9703437500002,"end":1524.7884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1525.3622187500002,"end":1575.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1578.3328437500002,"end":1578.3665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1578.3665937500002,"end":1588.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1591.0228437500002,"end":1610.5978437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1611.1378437500002,"end":1613.9053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1616.94284375,"end":1649.9334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1657.18971875,"end":1671.0272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1677.3047187500001,"end":1690.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1690.3997187500001,"end":1726.0228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1726.3265937500003,"end":1727.7103437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1727.91284375,"end":1734.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1734.93284375,"end":1737.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1737.34596875,"end":1747.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1748.7703437500002,"end":1766.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1766.8940937500001,"end":1772.1590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1772.76659375,"end":1774.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1774.8253437500002,"end":1779.7022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1780.2928437500002,"end":1786.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1786.82346875,"end":1799.1422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1799.9690937500002,"end":1808.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1809.7903437500001,"end":1813.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1813.26659375,"end":1821.0965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1821.41721875,"end":1823.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1823.7459687500002,"end":1828.5215937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1828.6734687500002,"end":1833.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1833.4490937500002,"end":1836.2503437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1836.5034687500001,"end":1838.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1839.4734687500002,"end":1840.0978437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1840.2159687500002,"end":1841.7684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1842.3084687500002,"end":1844.5697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1846.1053437500002,"end":1854.2559687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1859.9934687500001,"end":1899.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1900.6453437500002,"end":1913.1834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1913.8753437500002,"end":1947.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1948.7559687500002,"end":1953.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1953.8522187500002,"end":1972.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1973.0053437500003,"end":2015.1590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2015.9015937500003,"end":2066.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2068.3828437500006,"end":2082.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2083.53659375,"end":2100.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2101.6434687500005,"end":2103.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2104.63034375,"end":2117.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2129.3184687500006,"end":2225.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2225.4384687500005,"end":2232.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2233.8590937500003,"end":2258.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2258.5303437500006,"end":2335.2440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2337.7753437500005,"end":2347.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2359.84784375,"end":2387.7422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2387.80971875,"end":2403.6384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2403.8747187500003,"end":2409.2409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2409.39284375,"end":2444.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2444.6953437500006,"end":2471.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2471.6278437500005,"end":2484.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2486.29221875,"end":2505.0065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2506.23846875,"end":2511.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2514.50721875,"end":2547.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2557.2009687500004,"end":2563.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2563.4784687500005,"end":2566.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2567.6297187500004,"end":2568.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2569.8572187500004,"end":2569.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2569.8740937500006,"end":2570.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2570.26221875,"end":2570.2790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2570.2790937500004,"end":2570.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2571.03846875,"end":2576.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2583.20534375,"end":2585.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2586.7490937500006,"end":2586.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2586.7997187500005,"end":2586.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2586.81659375,"end":2586.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2586.9684687500003,"end":2588.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2589.48284375,"end":2591.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2592.3347187500003,"end":2594.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2595.37221875,"end":2598.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2599.2197187500005,"end":2600.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2600.9578437500004,"end":2609.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2611.47096875,"end":2612.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2612.3653437500006,"end":2613.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2614.25534375,"end":2615.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2616.5840937500006,"end":2618.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2619.85784375,"end":2621.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2621.79846875,"end":2625.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2625.39284375,"end":2626.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2628.7509687500005,"end":2630.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2630.8434687500003,"end":2632.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2632.44659375,"end":2633.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2634.4715937500005,"end":2635.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2636.3278437500003,"end":2637.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2638.3190937500003,"end":2639.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2640.1247187500003,"end":2641.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2641.7615937500004,"end":2644.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2646.0984687500004,"end":2648.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2650.3847187500005,"end":2652.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2653.7090937500006,"end":2656.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2657.64096875,"end":2659.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2660.52659375,"end":2662.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2662.82159375,"end":2665.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2667.95159375,"end":2670.9215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2670.65159375,"end":2672.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2673.30096875,"end":2674.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2674.7184687500003,"end":2676.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2676.4734687500004,"end":2677.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2677.9753437500003,"end":2678.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2678.1778437500006,"end":2681.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2681.4178437500004,"end":2684.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2685.01221875,"end":2686.2947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2687.42534375,"end":2688.2859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2688.97784375,"end":2692.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2693.7028437500003,"end":2696.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2696.4872187500005,"end":2700.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2700.97596875,"end":2701.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2701.0772187500006,"end":2703.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2705.44784375,"end":2708.3503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2707.89471875,"end":2708.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2708.3503437500003,"end":2711.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2711.2022187500006,"end":2719.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2711.3203437500006,"end":2711.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2711.3878437500007,"end":2711.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2716.77096875,"end":2716.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2719.5047187500004,"end":2721.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2721.83346875,"end":2722.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2722.25534375,"end":2724.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2722.5084687500002,"end":2722.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2724.3815937500003,"end":2725.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2724.90471875,"end":2726.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2726.7947187500004,"end":2726.8115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2727.18284375,"end":2728.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2728.3134687500005,"end":2730.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2730.69284375,"end":2731.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2731.3172187500004,"end":2738.6072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2738.75909375,"end":2739.6534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2740.7840937500005,"end":2741.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2741.4422187500004,"end":2745.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2746.6903437500005,"end":2747.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2748.7997187500005,"end":2749.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2750.1159687500003,"end":2754.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2750.87534375,"end":2751.6853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2752.6472187500003,"end":2753.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2755.09409375,"end":2756.2247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2755.75221875,"end":2759.7009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2759.9540937500005,"end":2766.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2767.46346875,"end":2768.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2769.5390937500006,"end":2770.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2771.1590937500005,"end":2772.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2772.8972187500003,"end":2774.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2774.2978437500005,"end":2774.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2775.34409375,"end":2776.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2777.03159375,"end":2778.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2778.0272187500004,"end":2778.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2778.06096875,"end":2778.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2778.60096875,"end":2778.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2778.7528437500005,"end":2782.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2778.9890937500004,"end":2780.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2783.4440937500003,"end":2784.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2785.48596875,"end":2788.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2788.3884687500004,"end":2794.6153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2795.17221875,"end":2797.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2798.00721875,"end":2800.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2801.55096875,"end":2803.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2804.5547187500006,"end":2807.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2808.06471875,"end":2814.0215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2814.5615937500006,"end":2816.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2817.7340937500003,"end":2819.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2820.5690937500003,"end":2821.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2822.5772187500006,"end":2823.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2824.8047187500006,"end":2827.0997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2827.6903437500005,"end":2829.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2830.2215937500005,"end":2832.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2833.69784375,"end":2835.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2837.78159375,"end":2846.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2845.9659687500007,"end":2849.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2850.1678437500004,"end":2853.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2853.69471875,"end":2853.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2853.7115937500002,"end":2855.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2855.01096875,"end":2855.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2855.02784375,"end":2855.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2855.0447187500004,"end":2858.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2855.0615937500006,"end":2855.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2856.52971875,"end":2863.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2861.9128437500003,"end":2862.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2862.68909375,"end":2875.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2864.19096875,"end":2864.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2868.27471875,"end":2869.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2876.2565937500003,"end":2882.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2883.0234687500006,"end":2883.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2883.05721875,"end":2883.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2883.10784375,"end":2883.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2883.22596875,"end":2890.6172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2891.00534375,"end":2892.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2893.2497187500003,"end":2896.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2896.97909375,"end":2897.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2897.1309687500006,"end":2898.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2898.6834687500004,"end":2899.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2900.7928437500004,"end":2905.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2909.07846875,"end":2911.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2913.8203437500006,"end":2918.7478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2919.9459687500002,"end":2921.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2924.28284375,"end":2927.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2928.90659375,"end":2931.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2931.80909375,"end":2933.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2933.8172187500004,"end":2936.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2937.3272187500006,"end":2938.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2939.8584687500006,"end":2942.0690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2943.1490937500002,"end":2946.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2946.5409687500005,"end":2950.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2950.84409375,"end":2951.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2953.93221875,"end":2955.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2955.24846875,"end":2959.2647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2960.9353437500004,"end":2967.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2967.29721875,"end":2972.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2971.3134687500005,"end":2978.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2979.3797187500004,"end":2980.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2981.6240937500006,"end":2984.8640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2985.7753437500005,"end":2987.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2988.5428437500004,"end":2989.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2991.10784375,"end":2992.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2992.72784375,"end":2994.3815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2995.4784687500005,"end":2997.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2998.4990937500006,"end":3002.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3003.08909375,"end":3004.3378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3004.97909375,"end":3006.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3007.2234687500004,"end":3008.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3009.85596875,"end":3011.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3012.3028437500006,"end":3015.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3016.9772187500002,"end":3018.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3019.6434687500005,"end":3021.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3022.8497187500006,"end":3025.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3026.6297187500004,"end":3027.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3028.70534375,"end":3030.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3031.00034375,"end":3032.3672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3032.8903437500003,"end":3035.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3036.1472187500003,"end":3038.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3039.48846875,"end":3041.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3041.59784375,"end":3044.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3045.1922187500004,"end":3046.5759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3047.2003437500007,"end":3048.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3051.8409687500007,"end":3052.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3054.62534375,"end":3055.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3056.61659375,"end":3058.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3058.54034375,"end":3059.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3060.34596875,"end":3062.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3062.89409375,"end":3065.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3066.1678437500004,"end":3067.6190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3068.59784375,"end":3079.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3080.3259687500004,"end":3081.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3082.4353437500004,"end":3085.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3085.5234687500006,"end":3090.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3090.61971875,"end":3091.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3092.77971875,"end":3093.8259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3095.05784375,"end":3098.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3100.8797187500004,"end":3102.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3104.45721875,"end":3107.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3108.8278437500003,"end":3109.9922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3110.3465937500005,"end":3111.7472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3112.23659375,"end":3113.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3114.59909375,"end":3115.7634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3116.70846875,"end":3118.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3119.17221875,"end":3121.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3122.26034375,"end":3123.3740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3123.9647187500004,"end":3125.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3126.4284687500003,"end":3127.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3128.5547187500006,"end":3129.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3130.5290937500004,"end":3131.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3132.5878437500005,"end":3133.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3135.4059687500003,"end":3136.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3137.14409375,"end":3139.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3140.6034687500005,"end":3142.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3142.81409375,"end":3143.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3144.83909375,"end":3145.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3147.20159375,"end":3149.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3149.96909375,"end":3151.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3154.7109687500006,"end":3155.1159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3156.0778437500003,"end":3156.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3156.97221875,"end":3157.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3158.3053437500002,"end":3159.6553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3161.1572187500005,"end":3166.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3167.94096875,"end":3172.0753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3172.4972187500007,"end":3173.9147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3174.6403437500003,"end":3177.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3177.74534375,"end":3180.6815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3187.4990937500006,"end":3188.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3188.30909375,"end":3188.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3190.41846875,"end":3191.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3191.7009687500004,"end":3194.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3194.5528437500006,"end":3201.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3202.23096875,"end":3203.7159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3204.50909375,"end":3206.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3207.7490937500006,"end":3210.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3211.3434687500003,"end":3218.9034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3219.4434687500006,"end":3220.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3221.62034375,"end":3224.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3225.7547187500004,"end":3227.6953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3228.9440937500003,"end":3231.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3232.6903437500005,"end":3235.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3236.75721875,"end":3239.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3240.5203437500004,"end":3243.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3243.45659375,"end":3246.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3247.25346875,"end":3254.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3255.2859687500004,"end":3258.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3258.9140937500006,"end":3262.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3263.4872187500005,"end":3265.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3266.0690937500003,"end":3268.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3269.05596875,"end":3271.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3272.4647187500004,"end":3274.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3274.35471875,"end":3276.2784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3276.76784375,"end":3279.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3280.44659375,"end":3283.1972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3283.88909375,"end":3285.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3285.6778437500006,"end":3286.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3288.1247187500003,"end":3289.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3290.6559687500003,"end":3292.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3292.3097187500007,"end":3294.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3294.0984687500004,"end":3303.8690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3304.08846875,"end":3306.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3306.8222187500005,"end":3311.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3311.5134687500004,"end":3314.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3315.7322187500004,"end":3318.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3318.36471875,"end":3321.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3321.4697187500005,"end":3324.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3325.16534375,"end":3326.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3327.5615937500006,"end":3328.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3329.3503437500003,"end":3335.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3335.1553437500006,"end":3337.7540937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3338.0240937500002,"end":3340.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3340.53846875,"end":3344.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3344.40284375,"end":3344.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3344.8415937500004,"end":3346.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3347.65971875,"end":3350.2753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3350.4609687500006,"end":3357.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3357.78471875,"end":3358.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3358.0547187500006,"end":3360.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3358.07159375,"end":3358.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3361.26096875,"end":3362.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3362.59409375,"end":3363.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3363.57284375,"end":3364.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3364.65284375,"end":3370.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3371.40284375,"end":3373.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3374.17034375,"end":3375.1153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3375.1490937500002,"end":3377.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3377.2247187500006,"end":3380.8190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3380.2284687500005,"end":3402.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3405.03471875,"end":3408.7472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3408.7472187500007,"end":3409.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3409.2028437500003,"end":3410.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3410.28284375,"end":3416.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3416.8640937500004,"end":3417.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3417.08346875,"end":3421.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3420.88034375,"end":3422.6522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3422.4159687500005,"end":3424.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3425.80784375,"end":3431.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3436.4728437500007,"end":3441.6534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3442.27784375,"end":3444.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3445.7878437500003,"end":3445.8047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3445.8047187500006,"end":3446.5978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3446.98596875,"end":3459.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3458.7647187500006,"end":3461.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3462.5447187500004,"end":3463.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3463.13534375,"end":3464.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3464.26596875,"end":3464.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3464.28284375,"end":3464.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3465.5147187500006,"end":3467.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3468.4003437500005,"end":3473.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3472.93971875,"end":3477.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3481.49534375,"end":3485.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3486.33846875,"end":3487.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3487.82346875,"end":3489.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3490.6247187500003,"end":3492.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3492.41346875,"end":3495.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3495.6365937500004,"end":3508.2422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3507.65159375,"end":3510.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3513.13596875,"end":3518.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3517.3209687500002,"end":3518.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3519.66659375,"end":3521.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3522.6365937500004,"end":3535.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3534.17909375,"end":3547.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3545.68784375,"end":3546.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3546.90284375,"end":3549.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3548.70846875,"end":3550.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3550.3790937500007,"end":3553.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3553.0284687500007,"end":3553.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3553.9734687500004,"end":3590.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3568.9415937500007,"end":3570.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3590.77784375,"end":3597.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3591.7565937500003,"end":3595.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3596.3465937500005,"end":3597.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3597.9665937500004,"end":3598.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3598.0340937500005,"end":3618.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3613.0865937500002,"end":3613.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3620.19096875,"end":3620.8322187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3627.04221875,"end":3629.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3632.0203437500004,"end":3635.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3635.8678437500002,"end":3637.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3638.2978437500005,"end":3639.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3643.2253437500003,"end":3757.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3643.93409375,"end":3644.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3757.89096875,"end":3772.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3772.67346875,"end":3775.9978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3775.25534375,"end":3775.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3777.85409375,"end":3844.2909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3843.7340937500003,"end":3850.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3851.0240937500002,"end":3867.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3867.6628437500003,"end":3889.0097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3887.4909687500003,"end":3887.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3887.94659375,"end":3887.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3889.7184687500003,"end":3959.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3957.4884687500007,"end":3957.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3960.1884687500005,"end":3964.9978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3965.16659375,"end":3987.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3987.8972187500003,"end":3990.2428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3990.2597187500005,"end":3990.2765937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3990.2765937500008,"end":4001.5828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3992.16659375,"end":3992.8078437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4001.8865937500004,"end":4014.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4010.7459687500004,"end":4011.3028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4015.5722187500005,"end":4034.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4034.5565937500005,"end":4034.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4034.7928437500004,"end":4036.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4038.4884687500007,"end":4048.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4049.2715937500006,"end":4063.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4064.4590937500006,"end":4065.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4066.0790937500005,"end":4068.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4069.5047187500004,"end":4073.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4073.3522187500002,"end":4073.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4073.63909375,"end":4073.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4073.70659375,"end":4073.7234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4075.1915937500007,"end":4099.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4084.48971875,"end":4084.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4084.6247187500003,"end":4085.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4099.812218749999,"end":4104.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4104.77346875,"end":4122.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4121.54721875,"end":4135.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4135.31721875,"end":4161.878468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4162.2665937500005,"end":4234.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4233.39471875,"end":4276.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4234.862843749999,"end":4235.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4250.809718750001,"end":4250.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4250.91096875,"end":4250.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4250.96159375,"end":4251.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4277.894093749999,"end":4295.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4295.849093750001,"end":4300.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4301.0634687500005,"end":4302.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4302.970343749999,"end":4311.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4313.12909375,"end":4351.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4352.380343750001,"end":4376.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4378.55346875,"end":4378.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4379.093468749999,"end":4425.128468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4424.335343750001,"end":4451.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4453.03971875,"end":4457.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4458.2372187500005,"end":4486.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4487.430968750001,"end":4496.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4496.77971875,"end":4510.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4510.954718749999,"end":4535.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4542.983468750001,"end":4639.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4640.36909375,"end":4641.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4641.76971875,"end":4644.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4646.27534375,"end":4703.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4703.616593750001,"end":4803.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4804.05659375,"end":4805.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4805.339093750001,"end":4832.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4832.03534375,"end":4838.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4837.907843749999,"end":4838.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4838.59971875,"end":4838.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4838.802218750001,"end":4839.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4839.966593749999,"end":4840.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4840.05096875,"end":4840.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4840.10159375,"end":4844.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4844.74221875,"end":4850.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4846.632218750001,"end":4846.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4846.868468750001,"end":4846.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4848.825968749999,"end":4852.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4850.6990937499995,"end":4850.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4851.66096875,"end":4852.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4852.31909375,"end":4862.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4862.984093749999,"end":4870.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4870.24034375,"end":4871.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4870.257218750001,"end":4870.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4872.56909375,"end":4878.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4877.78346875,"end":4895.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4880.196593750001,"end":4880.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4894.13534375,"end":4900.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4900.395968750001,"end":4913.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4912.866593750001,"end":4920.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4920.595343749999,"end":4925.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4924.61159375,"end":4927.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4927.51409375,"end":4935.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4936.997843749999,"end":4938.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4939.32659375,"end":4940.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4940.8622187500005,"end":5011.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5011.4334687499995,"end":5096.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5097.19221875,"end":5124.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5126.13284375,"end":5130.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5131.19534375,"end":5133.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5133.8447187500005,"end":5134.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5135.3465937500005,"end":5135.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5136.409718750001,"end":5140.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5140.965968750001,"end":5142.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5143.24409375,"end":5144.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5145.184718750001,"end":5149.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5149.42034375,"end":5223.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5224.024718750001,"end":5238.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5240.49471875,"end":5265.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5247.05909375,"end":5249.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5265.95909375,"end":5266.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5266.6678437499995,"end":5266.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5266.684718750001,"end":5303.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5303.96159375,"end":5305.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5310.171593749999,"end":5313.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5313.5634687500005,"end":5314.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5314.8290937500005,"end":5315.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5315.892218749999,"end":5316.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5316.16221875,"end":5319.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5319.182843750001,"end":5321.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5320.819718750001,"end":5343.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5344.22534375,"end":5345.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5346.4697187500005,"end":5350.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5351.39721875,"end":5351.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5354.31659375,"end":5356.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5356.61159375,"end":5359.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5361.77534375,"end":5361.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5362.214093750001,"end":5369.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5368.812218749999,"end":5375.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5372.59221875,"end":5373.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5375.03909375,"end":5375.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5377.030343750001,"end":5382.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5382.58221875,"end":5391.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5392.437218749999,"end":5393.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5396.470343749999,"end":5398.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5399.50784375,"end":5408.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5409.2615937499995,"end":5413.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5413.210343750001,"end":5416.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5416.112843750001,"end":5416.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5416.9228437500005,"end":5417.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5417.02409375,"end":5433.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5423.95971875,"end":5424.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5426.40659375,"end":5426.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5432.63346875,"end":5435.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5435.02971875,"end":5435.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5436.075968749999,"end":5507.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5443.9228437500005,"end":5444.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5450.149718750001,"end":5450.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5450.200343750001,"end":5450.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5450.36909375,"end":5450.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5472.81284375,"end":5473.251593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5476.964093750001,"end":5477.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5477.942843750001,"end":5478.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5507.96346875,"end":5514.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5508.689093749999,"end":5509.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5511.30471875,"end":5511.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5514.42659375,"end":5532.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5514.86534375,"end":5514.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5514.983468750001,"end":5515.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5515.304093750001,"end":5515.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5517.61596875,"end":5519.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5519.050343750001,"end":5519.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5520.5184687500005,"end":5520.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5520.974093750001,"end":5522.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5534.08596875,"end":5534.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5534.339093750001,"end":5541.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5541.05534375,"end":5542.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5543.31659375,"end":5554.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5544.71721875,"end":5544.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5554.8759687500005,"end":5554.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5555.7197187500005,"end":5576.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5576.96534375,"end":5584.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5577.505343750001,"end":5578.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5578.28159375,"end":5578.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5584.03596875,"end":5620.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5619.15284375,"end":5619.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5620.435343749999,"end":5634.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5635.3865937499995,"end":5635.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5636.196593750001,"end":5638.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5639.03159375,"end":5659.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5658.640343749999,"end":5659.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5659.93971875,"end":5660.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5660.007218750001,"end":5660.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5660.12534375,"end":5660.142218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5660.513468749999,"end":5666.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5665.812218749999,"end":5672.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5668.64721875,"end":5668.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5669.54159375,"end":5670.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5672.03909375,"end":5672.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5672.055968750001,"end":5672.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5672.12346875,"end":5672.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5672.190968750001,"end":5672.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5672.325968749999,"end":5688.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5674.249718749999,"end":5674.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5686.61909375,"end":5687.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5688.036593750001,"end":5688.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5688.05346875,"end":5688.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5688.1209687499995,"end":5698.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5698.9715937500005,"end":5700.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5699.3934687500005,"end":5713.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5704.5740937499995,"end":5704.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5713.18034375,"end":5713.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5714.12534375,"end":5718.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5718.02346875,"end":5718.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5718.15846875,"end":5719.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5718.90096875,"end":5736.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5736.14721875,"end":5736.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5737.51409375,"end":5737.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5737.56471875,"end":5737.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5737.9697187500005,"end":5749.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5748.48284375,"end":5748.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5749.394093750001,"end":5751.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5752.27971875,"end":5768.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5768.83409375,"end":5769.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5769.323468750001,"end":5771.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5771.73659375,"end":5780.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5780.54534375,"end":5841.126593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5841.126593750001,"end":5845.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5841.34596875,"end":5841.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5843.337218750001,"end":5844.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5845.22721875,"end":5846.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5846.526593750001,"end":5863.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5858.74409375,"end":5860.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5863.958468750001,"end":5864.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5864.97096875,"end":5878.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5878.79159375,"end":5881.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5881.93034375,"end":5883.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5884.343468749999,"end":5919.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5920.33784375,"end":5924.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5924.91096875,"end":5924.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5924.944718750001,"end":5925.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5925.130343750001,"end":5996.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5925.14721875,"end":5925.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5991.21284375,"end":5991.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5995.33034375,"end":6002.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6002.805968750001,"end":6003.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6004.358468750001,"end":6014.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6016.98096875,"end":6021.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6021.85784375,"end":6034.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6034.345343750001,"end":6035.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6036.20159375,"end":6042.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6043.305968750001,"end":6049.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6050.44409375,"end":6053.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6053.4647187499995,"end":6054.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6054.49409375,"end":6055.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6056.21534375,"end":6063.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6065.04096875,"end":6066.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6067.352843750001,"end":6068.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6069.698468750001,"end":6071.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6071.892218750001,"end":6072.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6073.56284375,"end":6074.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6075.90846875,"end":6104.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6105.30471875,"end":6113.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6113.82659375,"end":6141.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6141.82221875,"end":6143.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6144.48846875,"end":6148.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6149.55096875,"end":6164.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6177.39471875,"end":6186.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6180.66846875,"end":6181.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6187.13159375,"end":6188.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6190.405343750001,"end":6191.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6191.7215937500005,"end":6193.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6193.56096875,"end":6213.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6213.7772187499995,"end":6216.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6217.13534375,"end":6218.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6218.78909375,"end":6224.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6224.577218750001,"end":6241.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6241.435343749999,"end":6287.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6287.0653437500005,"end":6291.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6291.95909375,"end":6299.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6299.620343750001,"end":6311.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6311.78721875,"end":6321.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6321.827843749999,"end":6322.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6323.22846875,"end":6331.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6331.3622187500005,"end":6332.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6333.48846875,"end":6339.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6340.8290937500005,"end":6343.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6344.54159375,"end":6348.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6348.4228437500005,"end":6357.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6357.5184687500005,"end":6363.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6363.795968750001,"end":6385.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6386.610968750001,"end":6389.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6389.54721875,"end":6390.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6391.8759687500005,"end":6401.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6402.0009687500005,"end":6410.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6411.602843750001,"end":6420.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6420.546593749999,"end":6423.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6423.702218750001,"end":6427.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6427.7353437500005,"end":6429.405968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6429.8447187500005,"end":6431.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6432.20721875,"end":6439.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6440.560343749999,"end":6441.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6442.163468750001,"end":6447.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6447.411593750001,"end":6448.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6448.94721875,"end":6455.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6456.270968750001,"end":6464.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6464.82659375,"end":6464.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6464.87721875,"end":6464.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6464.91096875,"end":6464.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6464.97846875,"end":6465.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6465.029093749999,"end":6467.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6465.315968750001,"end":6465.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6467.72909375,"end":6468.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6469.28159375,"end":6473.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6474.3778437500005,"end":6485.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6479.5584687499995,"end":6479.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6479.575343750001,"end":6479.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6479.659718750001,"end":6479.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6479.9803437499995,"end":6480.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6480.030968749999,"end":6480.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6486.122843749999,"end":6487.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6488.249093750001,"end":6489.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6490.08846875,"end":6493.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6494.155343750001,"end":6517.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6518.30346875,"end":6522.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6522.741593750001,"end":6525.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6526.774718750001,"end":6528.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6528.61409375,"end":6530.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6530.655968749999,"end":6532.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6533.67659375,"end":6542.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6542.7215937500005,"end":6543.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6544.56096875,"end":6547.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6547.19346875,"end":6547.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6547.210343750001,"end":6547.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6547.22721875,"end":6547.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6548.44221875,"end":6592.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6568.97909375,"end":6571.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6591.47346875,"end":6595.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6594.42659375,"end":6600.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6600.19784375,"end":6604.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6603.083468750001,"end":6616.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6607.47096875,"end":6608.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6616.482218749999,"end":6630.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6616.583468750001,"end":6616.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6619.6209687499995,"end":6621.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6628.868468750001,"end":6630.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6631.450343750001,"end":6650.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6645.89534375,"end":6646.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6651.1434687500005,"end":6657.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6654.48471875,"end":6654.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6654.501593750001,"end":6654.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6658.686593750001,"end":6673.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6673.97534375,"end":6678.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6678.970343750001,"end":6679.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6680.16846875,"end":6680.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6681.56909375,"end":6686.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6687.323468750001,"end":6697.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6698.325968749999,"end":6698.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6698.849093750001,"end":6711.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6710.796593749999,"end":6715.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6715.589093750001,"end":6735.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6736.14284375,"end":6736.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6736.952843749999,"end":6754.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6743.989718750001,"end":6744.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6744.29346875,"end":6744.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6755.54909375,"end":6757.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6758.18159375,"end":6761.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6762.130343750001,"end":6764.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6764.425343750001,"end":6768.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6768.5428437499995,"end":6773.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6773.4872187500005,"end":6777.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6778.1278437500005,"end":6780.220343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6780.52409375,"end":6782.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6783.07221875,"end":6783.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6784.18596875,"end":6785.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6786.05909375,"end":6791.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6792.35346875,"end":6795.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6796.825343750001,"end":6808.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6809.515343749999,"end":6812.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6812.384093750001,"end":6815.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6815.6747187500005,"end":6819.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6819.77534375,"end":6819.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6821.108468750001,"end":6822.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6822.171593749999,"end":6881.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6839.0634687500005,"end":6839.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6857.11971875,"end":6857.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6859.3134687500005,"end":6859.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6871.56471875,"end":6871.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6877.4540937500005,"end":6877.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6880.964093750001,"end":6882.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6881.79096875,"end":6888.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6887.5115937499995,"end":6892.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6888.49034375,"end":6888.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6893.282843750001,"end":6897.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6898.14284375,"end":6899.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6899.155343750001,"end":6909.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6908.200343750001,"end":6919.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6920.232218749999,"end":6929.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6929.46284375,"end":6930.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6930.779093749999,"end":6932.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6933.34409375,"end":6934.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6935.858468750001,"end":6944.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6945.10596875,"end":6953.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6953.72909375,"end":6957.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6957.9647187499995,"end":6985.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6985.70721875,"end":6991.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6992.08596875,"end":7000.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7000.2197187500005,"end":7003.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7003.206593750001,"end":7005.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7005.450968749999,"end":7013.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7005.67034375,"end":7006.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7008.825968749999,"end":7009.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7010.83409375,"end":7011.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7011.81284375,"end":7012.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7015.390343750001,"end":7021.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7026.595343750001,"end":7030.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7030.56096875,"end":7031.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7031.7928437499995,"end":7032.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7036.9228437500005,"end":7037.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7037.429093750001,"end":7037.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7037.530343750001,"end":7109.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7109.569718750001,"end":7112.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7112.894093750001,"end":7113.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7113.56909375,"end":7118.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7119.39096875,"end":7124.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7125.229718750001,"end":7127.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7127.92971875,"end":7133.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7133.903468750001,"end":7134.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7134.983468750001,"end":7136.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7137.39659375,"end":7138.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7138.679093750001,"end":7143.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7143.80909375,"end":7144.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7145.63159375,"end":7146.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7147.42034375,"end":7147.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7148.567843750001,"end":7149.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7150.93034375,"end":7151.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7151.014718750001,"end":7151.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7152.34784375,"end":7153.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7152.837218750001,"end":7155.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7155.77346875,"end":7155.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7155.80721875,"end":7157.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7157.477843750001,"end":7157.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7157.78159375,"end":7168.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7169.08784375,"end":7174.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7175.095343750001,"end":7226.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7226.86784375,"end":7238.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7238.3934687500005,"end":7239.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7240.33409375,"end":7242.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7242.696593750001,"end":7253.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7253.6990937499995,"end":7256.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7257.24284375,"end":7261.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7262.001593750001,"end":7263.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7264.397843750001,"end":7266.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7266.76034375,"end":7268.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7268.987843750001,"end":7272.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7273.45971875,"end":7274.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7275.33284375,"end":7275.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7276.09221875,"end":7278.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7278.977843750001,"end":7279.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7281.036593750001,"end":7302.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7303.27784375,"end":7306.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7306.41659375,"end":7320.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7320.642218750001,"end":7344.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7342.61346875,"end":7342.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7342.967843750001,"end":7343.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7344.7059687500005,"end":7345.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7346.325968749999,"end":7355.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7355.8603437500005,"end":7369.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7369.630343750001,"end":7370.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7371.368468750001,"end":7373.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7374.15284375,"end":7384.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7385.2059687500005,"end":7395.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7395.29721875,"end":7398.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7398.874718750001,"end":7401.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7399.33034375,"end":7400.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7401.05159375,"end":7404.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7404.460343750001,"end":7404.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7404.62909375,"end":7406.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7406.198468750001,"end":7410.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7410.19784375,"end":7413.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7412.003468750001,"end":7412.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7413.218468750001,"end":7413.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7413.606593750001,"end":7423.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7422.56721875,"end":7424.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7424.82846875,"end":7432.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7433.2997187500005,"end":7445.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7445.97284375,"end":7450.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7450.967843750001,"end":7451.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7451.2040937500005,"end":7451.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7452.14909375,"end":7457.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7456.6209687499995,"end":7459.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7459.37159375,"end":7460.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7460.046593750001,"end":7462.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7460.0634687500005,"end":7460.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7461.278468750001,"end":7464.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7463.286593750001,"end":7488.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7489.257218750001,"end":7489.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7489.27409375,"end":7489.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7489.29096875,"end":7491.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7491.5184687500005,"end":7498.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7496.901593750001,"end":7498.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7498.79159375,"end":7499.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7499.6522187499995,"end":7500.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7500.15846875,"end":7502.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7503.4490937499995,"end":7504.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7504.1747187500005,"end":7504.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7504.22534375,"end":7505.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7505.67659375,"end":7510.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7509.67596875,"end":7511.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7511.481593750001,"end":7511.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7512.02159375,"end":7513.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7513.8778437500005,"end":7517.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7517.202218750001,"end":7519.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7519.5478437500005,"end":7522.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7522.214093750001,"end":7526.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7526.382218750001,"end":7526.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7526.50034375,"end":7526.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7526.618468750001,"end":7549.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7526.63534375,"end":7526.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7526.6522187499995,"end":7526.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7526.702843750001,"end":7526.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7549.686593750001,"end":7554.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7552.57221875,"end":7562.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7561.75221875,"end":7562.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7562.376593750001,"end":7568.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7568.654093749999,"end":7569.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7571.30346875,"end":7571.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7571.59034375,"end":7573.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7573.817843750001,"end":7579.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7573.9697187500005,"end":7574.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7574.796593750001,"end":7577.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7579.97721875,"end":7587.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7587.57096875,"end":7594.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7594.79346875,"end":7603.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7594.827218750001,"end":7595.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7603.78784375,"end":7603.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7603.821593750001,"end":7645.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7606.437218750001,"end":7606.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7645.435343749999,"end":7646.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7646.717843750001,"end":7666.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7666.765343750001,"end":7687.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7687.75784375,"end":7692.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7693.56284375,"end":7697.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7698.05159375,"end":7698.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7699.31721875,"end":7700.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7701.52784375,"end":7734.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7723.262843750001,"end":7723.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7726.38471875,"end":7727.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7734.687218750001,"end":7735.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7737.99471875,"end":7744.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7752.06846875,"end":7759.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7753.36784375,"end":7753.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7753.5028437500005,"end":7753.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7753.536593750001,"end":7753.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7761.2822187500005,"end":7761.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7763.155343750001,"end":7763.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7764.99471875,"end":7765.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7766.513468749999,"end":7769.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7770.42846875,"end":7771.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7772.4872187500005,"end":7781.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7781.81909375,"end":7784.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7785.312218750001,"end":7788.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7789.311593750001,"end":7790.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7792.12971875,"end":7796.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7798.862843750001,"end":7799.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7799.892218750001,"end":7804.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7804.026593750001,"end":7804.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7804.1278437500005,"end":7804.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7804.2459687499995,"end":7805.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7805.96721875,"end":7808.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7808.852843750001,"end":7811.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7811.4178437499995,"end":7817.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7818.25221875,"end":7822.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7822.859093750001,"end":7825.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7826.419718749999,"end":7828.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7828.765343750001,"end":7832.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7832.68034375,"end":7836.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7836.747218750001,"end":7837.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7839.413468750001,"end":7840.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7841.13471875,"end":7842.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7845.38721875,"end":7847.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7848.0028437500005,"end":7849.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7851.647843750001,"end":7854.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7855.22534375,"end":7859.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7859.663468750001,"end":7864.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7864.89471875,"end":7871.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7871.83034375,"end":7872.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7874.614718750001,"end":7876.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7877.2303437499995,"end":7878.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7879.440968750001,"end":7880.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7881.263468749999,"end":7882.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7882.93409375,"end":7884.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7885.61721875,"end":7886.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7887.372218750001,"end":7888.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7888.84034375,"end":7891.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7891.9959687499995,"end":7893.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7894.9490937499995,"end":7897.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7898.25659375,"end":7899.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7899.77534375,"end":7901.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7902.4247187500005,"end":7903.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7904.2303437499995,"end":7904.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7904.97284375,"end":7904.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7905.20909375,"end":7908.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7910.25471875,"end":7912.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7913.005343750001,"end":7915.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7916.41409375,"end":7921.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7921.8309687500005,"end":7927.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7928.36159375,"end":7929.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7929.981593750001,"end":7932.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7932.86721875,"end":7934.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7934.622218750001,"end":7935.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7936.74846875,"end":7938.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7939.17846875,"end":7941.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7942.013468749999,"end":7943.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7944.1903437500005,"end":7948.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7957.251593750001,"end":7957.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7958.702843750001,"end":7968.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7968.456593750001,"end":7970.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7970.97096875,"end":7980.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7972.675343750001,"end":7973.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7981.4334687499995,"end":7984.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7985.44971875,"end":7989.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7989.887843750001,"end":7992.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7993.583468750001,"end":7995.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7995.94596875,"end":7998.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7998.359093750001,"end":8000.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8001.29534375,"end":8004.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8005.024718750001,"end":8007.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8008.19721875,"end":8014.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8014.47471875,"end":8018.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8019.182843750001,"end":8019.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8021.325968750001,"end":8022.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8023.70534375,"end":8025.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8026.10159375,"end":8029.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8030.759093750001,"end":8032.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8033.189093750001,"end":8036.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8037.222218750001,"end":8038.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8039.854718750001,"end":8044.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8045.237843750001,"end":8046.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8047.1278437500005,"end":8050.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8053.4559687500005,"end":8055.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8056.22346875,"end":8057.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8057.55659375,"end":8061.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8061.96096875,"end":8062.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8063.39534375,"end":8063.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8063.96909375,"end":8067.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8068.87971875,"end":8071.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8073.53721875,"end":8078.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8079.3759687500005,"end":8081.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8083.71284375,"end":8085.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8086.59846875,"end":8092.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8092.97721875,"end":8093.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8093.753468750001,"end":8093.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8094.698468750001,"end":8096.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8096.993468750001,"end":8099.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8100.19971875,"end":8101.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8102.64659375,"end":8104.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8105.39721875,"end":8107.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8107.827218750001,"end":8110.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8111.08409375,"end":8112.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8113.04159375,"end":8115.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8115.25221875,"end":8117.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8117.901593750001,"end":8119.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8120.247218750001,"end":8121.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8122.305968750001,"end":8122.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8125.343468750001,"end":8126.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8127.4022187499995,"end":8128.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8128.7353437500005,"end":8129.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8129.96721875,"end":8131.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8132.16096875,"end":8135.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8136.21096875,"end":8137.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8137.999718750001,"end":8143.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8144.96909375,"end":8146.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8146.75784375,"end":8148.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8148.833468750001,"end":8149.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8150.55471875,"end":8152.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8153.423468750001,"end":8154.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8157.11909375,"end":8158.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8161.169093750001,"end":8171.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8171.614718750001,"end":8171.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8173.04909375,"end":8174.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8175.175343750001,"end":8176.997843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8178.685343750001,"end":8180.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8181.33471875,"end":8183.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8183.106593750001,"end":8183.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8183.1572187500005,"end":8188.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8189.55284375,"end":8191.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8191.679093750001,"end":8195.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8191.780343750001,"end":8192.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8194.024718749999,"end":8199.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8195.374718750001,"end":8196.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8197.079093750002,"end":8197.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8200.133468750002,"end":8201.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8201.95596875,"end":8205.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8205.769718750002,"end":8206.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8207.457218750002,"end":8208.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8209.735343750002,"end":8210.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8212.03034375,"end":8213.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8214.578468750002,"end":8216.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8218.544093750003,"end":8220.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8220.82221875,"end":8222.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8223.269093750001,"end":8224.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8226.340343750002,"end":8227.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8228.01096875,"end":8229.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8230.32284375,"end":8231.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8232.449093750001,"end":8233.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8233.815968750001,"end":8234.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8235.402218750001,"end":8239.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8239.671593750001,"end":8239.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8240.211593750002,"end":8240.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8240.262218750002,"end":8250.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8242.03409375,"end":8242.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8243.67096875,"end":8243.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8247.585968750001,"end":8248.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8250.640343750001,"end":8250.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8251.281593750002,"end":8251.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8251.29846875,"end":8256.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8254.94346875,"end":8255.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8256.715343750002,"end":8259.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8261.609093750001,"end":8263.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8264.410343750002,"end":8269.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8270.50221875,"end":8271.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8273.337218749999,"end":8274.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8275.379093750002,"end":8277.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8278.34909375,"end":8279.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8281.58909375,"end":8283.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8285.01471875,"end":8290.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8291.950343750003,"end":8292.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8293.840343750002,"end":8298.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8299.76346875,"end":8301.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8301.92346875,"end":8303.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8305.382843750001,"end":8310.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8310.884093750003,"end":8312.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8313.617843750002,"end":8315.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8317.97159375,"end":8318.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8318.511593750001,"end":8320.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8321.24534375,"end":8323.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8323.641593750002,"end":8324.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8326.324718750002,"end":8328.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8328.265343750001,"end":8331.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8331.72471875,"end":8331.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8331.94409375,"end":8331.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8331.977843750003,"end":8331.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8331.99471875,"end":8332.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8332.68659375,"end":8333.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8333.04096875,"end":8333.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8333.05784375,"end":8333.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8333.05784375,"end":8333.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8334.070343750001,"end":8338.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8338.778468750003,"end":8339.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8339.200343750003,"end":8341.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8342.06909375,"end":8345.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8345.562218750001,"end":8345.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8346.54096875,"end":8347.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8348.65034375,"end":8355.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8355.29909375,"end":8355.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8356.379093750002,"end":8358.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8358.387218750002,"end":8359.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8361.914093750001,"end":8364.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8365.829093750002,"end":8367.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8368.815968750001,"end":8372.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8370.80721875,"end":8371.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8372.76471875,"end":8373.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8374.95846875,"end":8378.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8379.59909375,"end":8382.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8383.09221875,"end":8384.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8384.796593750001,"end":8386.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8386.956593750001,"end":8388.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8389.89284375,"end":8391.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8393.95971875,"end":8394.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8395.10721875,"end":8396.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8397.925343750001,"end":8402.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8404.169093750003,"end":8408.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8409.34971875,"end":8410.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8411.442218750002,"end":8412.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8413.804718750001,"end":8416.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8416.352843750003,"end":8418.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8420.284718750001,"end":8422.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8423.38971875,"end":8426.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8427.878468750001,"end":8431.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8431.38846875,"end":8433.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8434.35846875,"end":8438.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8440.129718750002,"end":8441.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8441.90159375,"end":8442.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8443.082843750002,"end":8446.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8447.402843750002,"end":8448.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8449.63034375,"end":8451.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8452.22909375,"end":8453.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8453.933468750001,"end":8457.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8458.202843750001,"end":8465.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8466.269093750001,"end":8466.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8466.758468750002,"end":8466.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8466.77534375,"end":8466.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8466.960968750001,"end":8471.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8471.399093750002,"end":8481.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8481.625343750002,"end":8484.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8485.01721875,"end":8489.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8489.97846875,"end":8491.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8491.51409375,"end":8501.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8502.195968750002,"end":8504.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8504.609093750001,"end":8507.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8507.96721875,"end":8523.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8523.84659375,"end":8526.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8526.32721875,"end":8550.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8557.27596875,"end":8562.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8562.76034375,"end":8563.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8563.300343750001,"end":8577.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8577.660968750002,"end":8583.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8584.292843750001,"end":8585.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8586.503468750001,"end":8587.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8589.675968750002,"end":8589.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8590.18221875,"end":8632.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8632.79159375,"end":8671.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8671.688468750002,"end":8673.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8674.253468750001,"end":8682.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8683.922843750002,"end":8688.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8689.289093750001,"end":8704.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8705.894093750001,"end":8710.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8710.230968750002,"end":8715.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8715.73221875,"end":8728.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8728.97909375,"end":8730.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8730.83534375,"end":8734.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8736.066593750002,"end":8740.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8736.25221875,"end":8736.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8736.269093750001,"end":8736.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8741.80409375,"end":8763.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8763.218468750001,"end":8773.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8774.676593750002,"end":8774.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8774.76096875,"end":8786.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8786.67471875,"end":8792.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8792.63159375,"end":8792.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8792.648468750001,"end":8821.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8793.019718750002,"end":8793.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8807.76846875,"end":8808.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8822.26409375,"end":8831.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8831.66346875,"end":8831.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8831.69721875,"end":8849.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8850.27659375,"end":8869.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8869.71659375,"end":8870.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8871.31971875,"end":8904.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8905.137218750002,"end":8905.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8905.17096875,"end":8923.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8924.695343750001,"end":8926.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8925.336593750002,"end":8926.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8928.120968750001,"end":8933.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8933.824718750002,"end":8933.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8933.85846875,"end":8933.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8933.94284375,"end":8933.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8933.976593750001,"end":9011.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8940.844718750002,"end":8940.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8957.36534375,"end":8957.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9000.59909375,"end":9000.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9004.024718750003,"end":9004.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9012.00659375,"end":9019.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9020.410343750002,"end":9020.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9020.44409375,"end":9021.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9022.249718750001,"end":9035.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9035.61471875,"end":9052.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9053.02971875,"end":9085.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9056.03346875,"end":9056.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9057.34971875,"end":9057.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9062.78346875,"end":9063.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9085.09221875,"end":9089.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9086.594093750002,"end":9086.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9086.61096875,"end":9087.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9090.72846875,"end":9094.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9095.402843750002,"end":9098.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9099.250343750002,"end":9120.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9120.31034375,"end":9174.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9174.715343750002,"end":9174.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9174.73221875,"end":9175.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9175.96409375,"end":9178.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9179.035343750002,"end":9182.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9183.051593750002,"end":9189.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9191.539718750002,"end":9192.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9193.952843750001,"end":9196.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9197.53034375,"end":9198.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9199.89284375,"end":9201.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9202.710968750001,"end":9207.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9211.215968750003,"end":9211.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9211.890968750002,"end":9213.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9213.81471875,"end":9214.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9214.55721875,"end":9214.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9215.50221875,"end":9223.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9223.281593750002,"end":9225.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9227.48346875,"end":9227.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9227.51721875,"end":9228.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9228.52971875,"end":9243.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9229.339718750001,"end":9229.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9243.632843750001,"end":9309.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9310.89659375,"end":9311.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9312.16221875,"end":9313.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9313.47846875,"end":9319.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9320.86971875,"end":9323.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9324.59909375,"end":9326.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9327.24846875,"end":9329.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9329.72909375,"end":9332.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9332.969093750002,"end":9336.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9337.96409375,"end":9349.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9349.86096875,"end":9357.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9358.484093750001,"end":9358.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9360.30659375,"end":9361.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9363.95159375,"end":9377.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9377.45159375,"end":9388.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9381.332843750002,"end":9381.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9383.340968750003,"end":9383.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9383.374718750001,"end":9383.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9383.40846875,"end":9383.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9388.825343750003,"end":9394.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9395.457218750002,"end":9395.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9395.96346875,"end":9414.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9414.88034375,"end":9433.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9433.797218750002,"end":9435.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9435.55221875,"end":9435.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9435.94034375,"end":9436.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9436.480343750001,"end":9476.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9477.16596875,"end":9481.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9481.85721875,"end":9492.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9493.079093750002,"end":9513.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9513.81846875,"end":9525.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9526.52534375,"end":9528.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9529.562843750002,"end":9530.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9530.84534375,"end":9537.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9538.574093750001,"end":9565.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9566.265968750002,"end":9573.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9575.61471875,"end":9576.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9576.47534375,"end":9576.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9576.593468750001,"end":9578.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9579.41159375,"end":9602.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9600.99471875,"end":9628.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9602.53034375,"end":9602.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9629.15909375,"end":9663.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9663.769718750002,"end":9679.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9680.35784375,"end":9700.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9700.590968750003,"end":9703.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9703.67909375,"end":9709.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9709.905968750001,"end":9715.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9716.250968750002,"end":9717.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9718.10721875,"end":9723.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9724.739093750002,"end":9726.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9727.03409375,"end":9727.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9729.008468750002,"end":9740.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9739.69034375,"end":9746.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9746.17034375,"end":9748.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9748.11096875,"end":9749.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9749.81534375,"end":9767.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9767.63534375,"end":9785.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9785.759093750003,"end":9797.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9799.140968750002,"end":9804.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9805.418468750002,"end":9814.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9814.328468750002,"end":9815.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9817.230968750002,"end":9817.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9817.66971875,"end":9832.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9832.789718750002,"end":9842.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9832.82346875,"end":9833.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9842.965343750002,"end":9843.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9843.77534375,"end":9874.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9853.49534375,"end":9854.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9862.45596875,"end":9863.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9863.316593750002,"end":9864.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9868.78409375,"end":9869.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9874.15034375,"end":9879.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9880.12409375,"end":9914.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9914.17784375,"end":9917.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9918.19409375,"end":9919.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9920.23596875,"end":9920.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9920.25284375,"end":9920.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9920.269718750002,"end":9920.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9920.691593750002,"end":9920.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9921.062843750002,"end":9945.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9933.719093750002,"end":9934.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9941.903468750003,"end":9942.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9945.632843750001,"end":9945.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9945.700343750003,"end":9945.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9945.801593750002,"end":9956.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9956.972843750002,"end":9966.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9960.972218750001,"end":9961.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9967.06409375,"end":9967.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9967.97534375,"end":9970.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9970.962218750003,"end":9980.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9981.67784375,"end":9987.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9988.039718750002,"end":9990.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9990.402218750001,"end":9990.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9991.785968750002,"end":9994.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9994.08096875,"end":9997.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9997.97909375,"end":9998.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9998.417843750001,"end":10035.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10017.16596875,"end":10017.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10032.62346875,"end":10032.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10035.509093750003,"end":10050.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10051.219718750002,"end":10064.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10065.15846875,"end":10097.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10097.457218750002,"end":10104.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10104.39284375,"end":10116.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10117.032218750002,"end":10130.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10125.824093750001,"end":10125.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10125.874718750001,"end":10125.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10125.925343750001,"end":10125.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10125.95909375,"end":10125.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10125.97596875,"end":10126.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10130.59971875,"end":10130.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10132.87784375,"end":10133.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10135.08846875,"end":10135.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10136.35409375,"end":10142.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10147.980968750002,"end":10148.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10149.820343750001,"end":10156.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10156.77284375,"end":10165.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10166.594093750002,"end":10184.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10185.797843750002,"end":10187.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10188.784718750001,"end":10216.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10216.29096875,"end":10218.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10217.759093750003,"end":10261.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10262.12346875,"end":10262.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10263.49034375,"end":10290.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10290.59159375,"end":10301.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10301.18909375,"end":10301.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10302.94409375,"end":10303.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10304.00721875,"end":10308.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10309.42409375,"end":10310.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10310.95971875,"end":10311.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10311.887843750003,"end":10316.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10316.950343750003,"end":10340.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10340.727218750002,"end":10342.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10345.722218750001,"end":10356.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10355.35784375,"end":10409.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10409.492843750002,"end":10419.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10420.96784375,"end":10426.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10427.009093750003,"end":10427.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10427.565968750001,"end":10443.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10443.192218750002,"end":10449.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10448.305343750002,"end":10508.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10510.97909375,"end":10513.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10511.23221875,"end":10511.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10513.76346875,"end":10517.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10523.01096875,"end":10524.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10527.60096875,"end":10527.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10527.617843750002,"end":10532.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10533.524093750002,"end":10534.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10534.637843750003,"end":10535.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10538.468468750001,"end":10588.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10589.211593750002,"end":10612.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10604.601593750001,"end":10604.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10604.83784375,"end":10604.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10613.612843750001,"end":10619.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10620.210968750001,"end":10630.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10631.09534375,"end":10631.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10631.36534375,"end":10638.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10639.60034375,"end":10642.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10642.890968750002,"end":10644.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10645.253468750001,"end":10647.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10648.08846875,"end":10648.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10648.98284375,"end":10649.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10650.974093750003,"end":10657.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10658.41596875,"end":10663.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10663.84971875,"end":10667.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10668.152843750002,"end":10668.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10669.941593750002,"end":10674.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10675.442843750003,"end":10677.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10678.750343750002,"end":10680.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10680.927218750003,"end":10692.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10693.54971875,"end":10694.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10695.76034375,"end":10700.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10700.957843750002,"end":10710.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10710.930968750003,"end":10715.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10716.33096875,"end":10720.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10720.95471875,"end":10735.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10736.766593750002,"end":10738.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10740.36096875,"end":10742.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10743.499718750001,"end":10744.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10750.08096875,"end":10801.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10801.684718750003,"end":10804.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10804.40159375,"end":10806.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10806.645968750003,"end":10830.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10830.034718750001,"end":10830.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10831.199093750001,"end":10833.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10833.96659375,"end":10844.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10845.79596875,"end":10853.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10853.777843750002,"end":10855.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10856.12346875,"end":10858.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10859.886593750001,"end":10863.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10863.88596875,"end":10865.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10867.868468750003,"end":10874.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10875.124718750001,"end":10880.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10881.030968750001,"end":10888.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10889.046593750001,"end":10899.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10899.69471875,"end":10917.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10918.39221875,"end":10919.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10920.113468750002,"end":10923.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10923.52221875,"end":10939.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10939.958468750003,"end":10940.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10941.46034375,"end":10947.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10947.957218750002,"end":10973.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10973.438468750002,"end":10979.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10980.087218750003,"end":10984.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10984.64346875,"end":10994.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10994.66721875,"end":10999.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11000.387843750003,"end":11016.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11003.40846875,"end":11003.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11016.80721875,"end":11023.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11023.641593750002,"end":11028.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11029.868468750003,"end":11032.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11033.85096875,"end":11038.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11039.976593750001,"end":11041.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11040.65159375,"end":11040.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11042.254718750002,"end":11049.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11049.91596875,"end":11052.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11054.13471875,"end":11055.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11055.636593750001,"end":11056.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11056.73346875,"end":11060.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11063.550968750002,"end":11064.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11063.871593750002,"end":11068.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11067.68534375,"end":11068.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11069.17034375,"end":11073.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11072.899718750003,"end":11072.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11074.38471875,"end":11074.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11074.992218750001,"end":11077.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11077.97909375,"end":11080.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11081.13471875,"end":11082.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11083.09221875,"end":11083.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11083.395968750003,"end":11085.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11087.125343750002,"end":11089.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11090.09534375,"end":11093.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11093.43659375,"end":11099.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11099.477843750003,"end":11099.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11099.899718750003,"end":11101.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11102.481593750003,"end":11103.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11103.59534375,"end":11107.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11108.320343750001,"end":11109.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11110.19346875,"end":11110.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11111.222843750002,"end":11112.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11112.74159375,"end":11116.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11116.94346875,"end":11117.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11118.47909375,"end":11120.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11121.01034375,"end":11124.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11124.53721875,"end":11127.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11127.49034375,"end":11128.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11129.24534375,"end":11134.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11135.067218750002,"end":11136.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11136.72096875,"end":11138.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11138.61096875,"end":11140.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11140.956593750001,"end":11141.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11142.070343750001,"end":11143.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11144.01096875,"end":11144.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11145.344093750002,"end":11149.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11149.96784375,"end":11156.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11157.34221875,"end":11160.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11160.801593750002,"end":11161.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11161.81409375,"end":11173.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11173.42409375,"end":11177.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11177.54159375,"end":11180.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11181.321593750003,"end":11184.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11184.61221875,"end":11186.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11186.92409375,"end":11204.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11205.01409375,"end":11210.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11210.02596875,"end":11236.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11236.03034375,"end":11236.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11239.574093750001,"end":11244.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11251.065968750001,"end":11252.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11254.79534375,"end":11255.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11256.38159375,"end":11256.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11256.63471875,"end":11256.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11259.402218750001,"end":11303.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11305.454093750002,"end":11306.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11307.00659375,"end":11331.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11331.57659375,"end":11332.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11334.040343750003,"end":11337.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11336.031593750002,"end":11337.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11338.57971875,"end":11342.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11342.69721875,"end":11343.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11343.06846875,"end":11343.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11343.11909375,"end":11387.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11343.28784375,"end":11344.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11346.679718750001,"end":11346.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11388.15846875,"end":11406.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11412.62721875,"end":11412.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11413.234718750002,"end":11419.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11414.280968750001,"end":11414.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11418.719093750002,"end":11421.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11421.672218750002,"end":11424.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11421.790343750003,"end":11422.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11424.794093750003,"end":11438.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11437.16346875,"end":11437.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11437.19721875,"end":11437.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11438.51346875,"end":11480.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11480.81909375,"end":11492.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11493.47534375,"end":11499.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11500.79909375,"end":11507.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11504.74784375,"end":11509.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11510.82284375,"end":11512.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11513.910968750002,"end":11513.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11513.92784375,"end":11526.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11517.20159375,"end":11518.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11524.761593750001,"end":11525.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11526.21284375,"end":11527.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11526.246593750002,"end":11527.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11527.96784375,"end":11528.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11530.347218750001,"end":11605.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11535.899093750002,"end":11536.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11536.70909375,"end":11536.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11536.77659375,"end":11537.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11537.046593750001,"end":11537.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11540.03346875,"end":11540.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11540.370968750001,"end":11540.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11542.480343750001,"end":11543.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11571.589718750001,"end":11571.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11605.06971875,"end":11605.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11605.187843750002,"end":11605.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11605.22159375,"end":11619.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11609.22096875,"end":11609.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11612.528468750003,"end":11614.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11619.97034375,"end":11624.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11625.269093750001,"end":11625.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11625.89346875,"end":11629.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11626.922843750002,"end":11629.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11629.62284375,"end":11630.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11630.972843750002,"end":11631.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11631.69846875,"end":11631.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11631.968468750001,"end":11682.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11682.47534375,"end":11684.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11685.42846875,"end":11702.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11703.40034375,"end":11703.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11703.434093750002,"end":11703.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11705.25659375,"end":11720.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11724.46034375,"end":11735.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11736.84659375,"end":11737.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11738.652218750001,"end":11740.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11741.41971875,"end":11742.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11742.68534375,"end":11744.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11745.16596875,"end":11745.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11745.38534375,"end":11745.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11745.53721875,"end":11745.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11745.55409375,"end":11746.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11746.02659375,"end":11746.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11747.140343750001,"end":11747.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11748.59159375,"end":11771.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11776.08096875,"end":11779.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11779.38846875,"end":11780.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11780.063468750002,"end":11786.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11786.847218750001,"end":11819.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11818.302218750003,"end":11818.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11819.53409375,"end":11820.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11819.90534375,"end":11820.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11820.023468750001,"end":11820.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11820.22596875,"end":11820.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11820.512843750003,"end":11848.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11826.672218750002,"end":11826.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11826.68909375,"end":11826.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11826.70596875,"end":11828.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11831.312843750002,"end":11833.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11843.63159375,"end":11843.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11846.93909375,"end":11884.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11851.630343750003,"end":11852.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11854.667843750001,"end":11855.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11885.110343750002,"end":11887.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11887.50659375,"end":11890.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11891.792843750001,"end":11894.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11894.543468750002,"end":11919.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11897.05784375,"end":11897.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11919.87284375,"end":11921.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11922.10034375,"end":11928.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11928.597218750001,"end":11934.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11934.419093750003,"end":11940.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11940.899093750002,"end":11942.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11942.18159375,"end":11943.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11943.83534375,"end":11945.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11945.72534375,"end":11949.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11949.758468750002,"end":11951.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11951.95221875,"end":11953.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11955.22596875,"end":11957.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11957.875343750002,"end":11958.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11959.44471875,"end":11960.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11960.69346875,"end":11962.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11963.54534375,"end":11964.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11965.249718750001,"end":11966.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11966.144093750001,"end":11967.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11967.96659375,"end":11970.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11970.902843750002,"end":11973.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11973.88971875,"end":11976.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11977.804718750001,"end":11981.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11981.972843750002,"end":11981.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11982.20909375,"end":11997.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11997.632843750001,"end":12006.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12007.082843750002,"end":12019.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12019.890968750002,"end":12021.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12022.30409375,"end":12023.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12023.82284375,"end":12025.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12025.375343750002,"end":12025.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12025.40909375,"end":12026.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12026.52284375,"end":12028.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12028.04159375,"end":12048.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12028.78409375,"end":12029.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12030.52221875,"end":12031.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12049.35471875,"end":12059.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12059.969093750002,"end":12064.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12065.234093750001,"end":12065.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12065.250968750002,"end":12065.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12065.36909375,"end":12065.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12065.89221875,"end":12066.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12069.199718750002,"end":12072.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12073.620968750001,"end":12084.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12086.074718750002,"end":12088.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12088.184093750002,"end":12097.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12098.460968750001,"end":12100.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12100.418468750002,"end":12101.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12102.61221875,"end":12110.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12110.965343750002,"end":12114.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12115.20096875,"end":12118.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12119.099093750003,"end":12122.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12123.098468750002,"end":12128.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12129.49409375,"end":12145.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12160.35846875,"end":12164.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12164.52659375,"end":12165.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12167.547218750002,"end":12168.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12168.89721875,"end":12177.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12178.296593750001,"end":12180.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12180.33846875,"end":12190.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12188.92784375,"end":12189.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12191.003468750001,"end":12191.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12192.555968750003,"end":12198.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12194.90159375,"end":12195.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12196.74096875,"end":12197.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12198.394718750002,"end":12208.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12207.50721875,"end":12208.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12208.65471875,"end":12209.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12209.54909375,"end":12211.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12210.24096875,"end":12210.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12211.894718750002,"end":12236.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12237.13971875,"end":12258.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12259.583468750003,"end":12266.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12264.257843750001,"end":12266.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12267.362843750001,"end":12267.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12267.683468750001,"end":12276.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12269.792843750001,"end":12270.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12276.00284375,"end":12280.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12278.567843750003,"end":12317.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12318.055343750002,"end":12319.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12319.962218750003,"end":12320.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12320.45159375,"end":12320.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12320.468468750001,"end":12320.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12321.14346875,"end":12321.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12321.49784375,"end":12321.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12322.054718750001,"end":12322.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12324.974093750003,"end":12329.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12327.977843750003,"end":12328.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12328.028468750003,"end":12328.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12329.327843750001,"end":12336.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12337.10721875,"end":12356.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12356.14221875,"end":12358.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12357.222218750001,"end":12357.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12358.605968750002,"end":12373.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12374.367218750001,"end":12382.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12382.281593750002,"end":12385.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12384.981593750003,"end":12391.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12386.618468750003,"end":12386.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12391.17471875,"end":12393.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12393.199718750002,"end":12401.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12401.805968750003,"end":12402.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12403.39221875,"end":12422.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12422.79846875,"end":12428.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12428.92409375,"end":12438.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12438.964718750001,"end":12439.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12439.04909375,"end":12439.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12439.53846875,"end":12439.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12439.555343750002,"end":12448.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12448.02659375,"end":12450.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12448.06034375,"end":12448.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12448.735343750002,"end":12449.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12450.70971875,"end":12462.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12462.809093750002,"end":12476.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12476.96721875,"end":12485.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12485.117843750002,"end":12494.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12494.63534375,"end":12505.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12506.785343750002,"end":12518.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12511.88159375,"end":12512.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12513.180968750003,"end":12514.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12515.18909375,"end":12534.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12535.152218750001,"end":12550.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12550.96409375,"end":12557.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12555.21659375,"end":12561.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12561.46034375,"end":12561.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12561.98346875,"end":12562.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12562.28721875,"end":12562.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12562.371593750002,"end":12562.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12562.40534375,"end":12564.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12562.574093750001,"end":12566.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12567.012218750002,"end":12568.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12569.62784375,"end":12571.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12570.79221875,"end":12572.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12573.10409375,"end":12617.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12577.54221875,"end":12578.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12582.65534375,"end":12583.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12619.054718750001,"end":12623.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12623.93159375,"end":12666.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12666.54096875,"end":12670.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12670.92846875,"end":12673.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12673.476593750001,"end":12675.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12676.63221875,"end":12677.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12677.543468750002,"end":12681.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12682.26846875,"end":12685.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12685.761593750001,"end":12685.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12686.85846875,"end":12691.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12690.790343750003,"end":12691.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12691.617218750001,"end":12701.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12698.19846875,"end":12699.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12700.442843750003,"end":12703.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12702.602843750003,"end":12702.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12704.50971875,"end":12707.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12707.93534375,"end":12708.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12708.188468750002,"end":12712.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12712.96409375,"end":12719.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12719.612843750001,"end":12721.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12721.43534375,"end":12734.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12731.03721875,"end":12739.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12734.51346875,"end":12735.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12739.862843750001,"end":12744.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12744.824093750001,"end":12745.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12744.840968750003,"end":12747.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12747.034718750001,"end":12748.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12748.75596875,"end":12750.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12749.633468750002,"end":12750.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12751.202843750001,"end":12757.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12752.417843750001,"end":12752.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12754.66221875,"end":12755.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12756.383468750002,"end":12759.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12759.809093750002,"end":12760.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12760.872218750003,"end":12768.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12768.38159375,"end":12809.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12811.007843750001,"end":12812.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12813.184718750003,"end":12815.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12815.78346875,"end":12817.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12818.078468750002,"end":12818.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12818.517218750003,"end":12822.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12821.031593750002,"end":12821.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12822.90471875,"end":12832.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12832.77659375,"end":12835.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12836.590343750002,"end":12891.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12893.020343750002,"end":12900.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12900.00659375,"end":12903.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12903.48284375,"end":12904.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12904.680968750003,"end":12916.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12916.76346875,"end":12924.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12924.610343750002,"end":12929.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12929.68971875,"end":12932.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12931.91721875,"end":12934.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12934.97159375,"end":12935.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12935.12346875,"end":12935.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12935.933468750001,"end":12948.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12948.758468750002,"end":12964.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12962.730968750002,"end":12971.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12970.965968750003,"end":12971.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12971.60721875,"end":12976.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12976.332218750002,"end":12977.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12978.036593750003,"end":12992.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12992.92034375,"end":12995.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12997.999718750001,"end":12999.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12999.02909375,"end":12999.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13000.007843750001,"end":13000.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13000.547843750002,"end":13001.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13002.539093750001,"end":13036.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13037.031593750002,"end":13047.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13047.797843750002,"end":13079.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13079.57346875,"end":13089.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13089.344093750002,"end":13095.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13097.410343750002,"end":13098.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13098.76034375,"end":13103.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13103.40096875,"end":13113.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13113.812843750002,"end":13122.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13122.520343750002,"end":13133.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13134.906593750002,"end":13144.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13144.677218750003,"end":13155.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13155.88221875,"end":13156.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13156.03409375,"end":13158.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13158.177218750003,"end":13161.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13159.746593750002,"end":13163.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13163.98221875,"end":13164.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13165.24784375,"end":13165.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13169.06159375,"end":13169.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13170.42846875,"end":13181.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13176.199718750002,"end":13176.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13178.59596875,"end":13179.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13180.165343750003,"end":13197.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13198.49159375,"end":13206.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13205.49471875,"end":13206.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13207.18221875,"end":13210.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13210.60784375,"end":13234.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13235.565968750001,"end":13237.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13238.367218750001,"end":13257.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13257.267218750003,"end":13266.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13266.83534375,"end":13271.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13271.847218750001,"end":13291.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13291.844093750002,"end":13292.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13293.76784375,"end":13296.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13296.855968750002,"end":13296.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13296.87284375,"end":13298.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13297.328468750002,"end":13300.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13298.57721875,"end":13303.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13300.93971875,"end":13300.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13303.251593750003,"end":13310.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13304.26409375,"end":13304.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13304.280968750001,"end":13304.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13304.719718750002,"end":13304.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13310.06909375,"end":13318.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13319.65409375,"end":13324.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13325.374718750001,"end":13326.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13327.551593750002,"end":13340.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13337.64284375,"end":13345.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13342.92471875,"end":13343.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13345.945343750001,"end":13348.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13345.97909375,"end":13351.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13350.40034375,"end":13376.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13372.87784375,"end":13373.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13374.177218750003,"end":13375.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13375.645343750002,"end":13383.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13384.26846875,"end":13423.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13424.734718750002,"end":13425.12284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1484.492,"end":1505.14,"text":"報告委員會初席委員9人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會我們現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法治委員會第6次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國114年11月5日星期三上午9時1分至11時19分"},{"start":1506.861,"end":1523.309,"text":"下午二十三十五分至五十十一分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員黃國昌委員等十三人列席委員賴時保委員等十九人列席官員考試院秘書長劉建興等人主席汪昭吉委員小林報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定"},{"start":1525.77,"end":1540.085,"text":"討論事項繼續賓安審查委員賴世寶等三十一人擬拒公務人員退休自檢撫恤法第三十七條條文修正草案等二十六案決議大體討論完畢進行逐條審查第三條第八條第三十七條及附表三"},{"start":1540.866,"end":1555.314,"text":"韓委員翁曉琳等三人 委員黃國昌張啟凱等五人所提修正動議第三十八條 其增令附表三之一韓委員翁曉琳等三人 委員黃國昌張啟凱等五人所提修正動議第六十七條 韓委員黃國昌張啟凱等五人所提修正動議"},{"start":1556.074,"end":1575.335,"text":"均保留送院會處理本案審查完據擬據審查報告提請院會公決須交由黨團協商院會討論時由翁交集委員小林出席說明條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語授權主席及醫事人員整理通過動議一項及經表決未通過附議案議案宣讀完畢"},{"start":1578.396,"end":1602.537,"text":"我們議事錄就要等一下達到法定人數三人以後我們再行確定我們接著來介紹到場的委員跟應邀列席的官員在場委員 照處理我們就先不介紹我們先介紹應邀列席的官員我們司法院副秘書長 王美英副秘書長"},{"start":1603.818,"end":1608.747,"text":"還有法務部我們政務次長徐錫祥次長其他就不用聽那麼多了"},{"start":1616.98,"end":1639.432,"text":"那我們其餘為己介紹的列席代表請參閱名單我們就不再逐一的介紹並列入公報記錄那我們本次的議程討論的事項的排定在我們司法院跟行政院函請審議少年事件處理法部分條文的修正草案等七案"},{"start":1640.573,"end":1649.587,"text":"在我們提案說明跟報告以後我們今天進行報告跟詢答現在我們進行提案說明及報告"},{"start":1657.233,"end":1670.708,"text":"那請機關代表黃國昌委員到場請機關代表報告每位發言就三分鐘我們現在就請我們司法院副秘書長王梅英副秘書長報告"},{"start":1677.838,"end":1705.174,"text":"主席各位委員各位信義大家早安本院奉邀前來貴委員會就少年事件法部分條文修正草案提出報告深感榮幸敬請指教那本次修正的那個重點說明如下第一呢是多元處遇的轉換機制深化個案處遇的效能那為了使少年法院可以適時的依少年的需求彈性調整保護處遇呢"},{"start":1706.395,"end":1727.064,"text":"這一次的修正賦予了少年法院更多元的處遇轉換機制那因應個案的狀況來做出彈性調整以落實兒童權利公約少年最佳利益及處遇多元化的原則此次修正呢增設了處遇轉換的機制呢包括保護管束轉"},{"start":1728.024,"end":1747.479,"text":"安置辅导安置辅导转保护管束停止感化教育后的多元衔接那第二个重点呢是付条件前岸记录图销现行少事法第八三条之一的前岸图销制度它的立法目的是在于鼓励少年自新顺利复归社会"},{"start":1748.84,"end":1771.858,"text":"那但是呢未免無條件借其塗銷呢過於理想化的疑慮本院此次修正草案提出了將借其自動塗銷改為附條件那個塗銷也就是說那個少年保護等處分宣告執行或赦免後的三年內沒有再故意觸犯刑法法律而受"},{"start":1772.819,"end":1798.564,"text":"保護處分刑事宣告者才能夠視為未承受個該宣告而可以塗銷那第三個修正是因應刑事訴訟法增訂特殊強制處分專章那本次修法增訂了準用刑事訴訟法相關規定另外統一法律用語格式還有配合相關法律的修正以及擴大權力救濟等事項"},{"start":1799.984,"end":1807.975,"text":"那至於其他委員所提的草案呢審發會委員羅廷威等委員提的那個內容本院並無不同意見"},{"start":1809.864,"end":1838.344,"text":"就前案記錄塗銷條文的部分林月琴等委員 沈博洋等委員羅廷威等委員的提案與本院所提的草案塗銷條件略有不同翁曉琳等委員提案擴大了少年事件強制輔佐的範圍廖維祥等委員提案就重大犯罪的司法裁量權限縮 調整免刑門檻本院都尊重貴院的審查權"},{"start":1839.525,"end":1853.742,"text":"以上報告敬請委員各位先進指教 謝謝好 謝謝王副秘書長我們接下來請法務部政次徐錫祥次長來做報告"},{"start":1860.017,"end":1880.668,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士先生今天奉邀列席代表本部報告並被質詢那至報告如下 敬請指教一 為保障少年健全之自我成長調整其成長環境並矯正其性格少年事件處理法經歷108年 112年的修正"},{"start":1881.548,"end":1909.169,"text":"包含不选少年去标签化缩短司法介入事由建制不选少年行政辅导先行机制尊重少年主体权及保障程序权并推动资源整合平台增订多元处理措施等重建少年与社会社群之连结本次行政院会选司法院再次提出少年事件处理法的部分条文修正草案"},{"start":1909.74,"end":1934.709,"text":"與本部權責有關這部分報告如下瓜福一 增訂司法警察調查少年觸犯刑法法律之行為必要時準用刑事重罰特殊強制處分之規定這是修正條文第十八條之七瓜福二 將少年行為被害人及其法定代理人得救不負保護處分"},{"start":1935.409,"end":1947.102,"text":"之裁定申請重新審理之事由修正與刑事訴訟法規定用語一致並增訂准用刑事訴訟法關於申請人得委任待遇人到場權"},{"start":1948.803,"end":1971.798,"text":"得申請調查證據等規定 這是在修正條文第64條之二第四 瓜福三 應應監獄行刑法修正著作文字的修正那這是修正條文的第80條 瓜福四刪除無期徒刑執行逾7年後得假釋之規定 這是修正條文第81條瓜福五 這是大家比較關心的"},{"start":1973.112,"end":1997.298,"text":"少年視為未曾受宣告得突銷前案記錄之情形處不負審理不負保護處分者外其餘不再區分各種情形而有不同年限的規定均修正為三年並增訂需在因故意觸犯刑法法律而受保護處分或刑之宣告之條件這是修正條文第83條之一 瓜佛六"},{"start":1997.958,"end":2013.492,"text":"大院另有相關委員提案修正部分或特定條文包含修正少年得免除期刑之案件類型為最重本刑7年以下有期徒刑或增訂少年事件保護處分間的轉換機制"},{"start":2016.01,"end":2031.225,"text":"少年法院應為少年指定輔助人之情形充實少年程序保障以及增加少年前案記錄得圖銷之條件以達預防再犯的目的本部尊重主管機關意見及大院委員之職權"},{"start":2033.187,"end":2050.482,"text":"結論本次兩院會選送大院審議的之少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案增訂少年事件多元化保護處分間轉換機制對於少年前案塗銷的相關規定予以修正發揮預防再犯的效果本部將持續"},{"start":2052.484,"end":2065.313,"text":"關注觸犯刑法法律少年及暴嫌少年涉入犯罪之情形及趨勢變化適時提供相關法治意見以達保障少年健全成長以及維護社會安全之目標以上 謝謝"},{"start":2068.848,"end":2082.03,"text":"好 謝謝我們許正次的報告那我們由於議事錄先前已經宣錄完畢 尚未確定我們現在先確定議事錄請問各位上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏"},{"start":2083.581,"end":2099.551,"text":"沒有的話我們議事錄就確定了那我們現在先來進行提案的說明委員提案說明前我們這個剛剛議事錄已經確定那我們現在提案說明委員就一個人三分鐘了好不好那我們先請在場的"},{"start":2101.693,"end":2117.695,"text":"提案委員、廖委員、韋翔沒有出席沒有在場羅委員、羅廷委員沒有在場林委員、岳勤沒有在場沈委員、柏陽沒有在場沈委員、發慧沒有在場我們現在請翁曉琳委員來進行提案說明"},{"start":2129.846,"end":2147.195,"text":"首先非常感謝我們睿智的莊昭偉今天排審少年事件處理法的草案我們知道國家的未來在少年但是我們的孩子 我們的少年有時候卻是社會當中最脆弱最需要幫助的一個群體"},{"start":2148.215,"end":2162.945,"text":"大家都知道台灣的少年司法有一個非常崇高的目標就是要健全少年的成長那麼在這個過程當中少年事件輔佐人基本上就是少年的引路人 守護者"},{"start":2163.385,"end":2192.674,"text":"那么他们不只是保护程序上的权利更是要协助更需要是协助法院那么让孩子能够安心的勇敢在法院当中表达自己帮助他们重新站起来但是我们看看现代的法规在少年事件处理法第31条规定只有当孩子犯了罪侵本刑三年以上的重罪的时候法院才必须要强制指定辅佐人"},{"start":2193.374,"end":2220.485,"text":"那這樣的規定足夠嗎我想當然是不夠的大部分最需要幫助的少年他們的案子或許沒有那麼重但是他們面對司法程序的恐懼無助和壓力是一點都沒有少如果我們只看罪的輕重那麼那些因為家庭貧困因為身心障礙因為身份的隔閡而本來就處於程序弱勢的孩子們"},{"start":2220.965,"end":2232.2,"text":"他們在法庭上將會是孤單的無助的沉默的那麼這絕對是違背了我們憲法當中對於少年應該予以特別保護以及輔助的承諾"},{"start":2233.922,"end":2257.163,"text":"那麼相對的對於成年人在刑事訴訟法裡面其實已經將強制辯護的範圍擴大到包含身心障礙者原住民和經濟弱勢那麼如果成年人在法庭上面都能獲得這樣的保障那我們的少年這些心智和資源都不夠成熟的孩子難道不應該獲得更高的保護標準嗎"},{"start":2258.624,"end":2279.221,"text":"那麼讓少年在程序保障上面能夠受到如果處於比成年人更低的地位我想這是非常不妥的所以身為立法者我們有責任要去確保若是少年能夠獲得適當的法律協助避免因為資源的不足或是能力受限而影響到訴訟防禦權落實憲法對少年特別保護的意旨"},{"start":2283.464,"end":2290.971,"text":"所以在此我提案少事法第31條的修正就是希望能夠給予每個孩子實質的平等為孩子們搭起一座司法的保護網那麼將身心障礙的少年原住民少年還有經濟弱勢的少年等等那麼能夠納入強制輔佐的範圍"},{"start":2303.442,"end":2319.041,"text":"希望能够透过辅佐人专业而且及时的介入我们能够有效的避免这些弱势少年那么因为无知或是无诛而受到二次的伤害让整个少年事件的处理程序能够真正做到"},{"start":2319.461,"end":2334.97,"text":"完善周延充滿希望所以在此也請大家可以共同支持邵氏法第31條修正草案讓我們一起為這些需要光亮的孩子點燃一炷希望的燭火謝謝大家謝謝翁曉琳委員很充分專業的一個說明接下來我們請林月琴委員來做提案說明"},{"start":2360.244,"end":2387.325,"text":"各位委員還有政府部門的代表先進 大家好我是立法委員林月琴今天我在此提出少年事件處理法第83條之一條修正草案那懇請各位支持本提案的緣由是基於兒童權利公約跟少年事件處理法第一條保障少年健全成長的立法精神跟意志提出對案版本的調整跟修正"},{"start":2388.045,"end":2414.391,"text":"因此在83條之一的修法方向上我參考第十條一般信義監書第六十七點次那將少年前案的圖銷的排除適用限縮在故意觸犯刑法法律而受到五年以上有期徒刑宣告的嚴重觸法而少並且針對前案涉及不同形態處於的少年設計層級化的一個圖銷年限"},{"start":2417.092,"end":2431.641,"text":"藉此回應CRC也就是兒權公約意見書中有關的一個必要性的建議此外我也誠摯的期盼各位關心司法少年議題的委員同仁共同關注少年輔導跟矯正處於資源匱乏的問題"},{"start":2435.223,"end":2462.985,"text":"舉凡本次修法保護處分轉換機制的一個調整我相當肯定司法院勇於提出利益良善且符合主義多元化的一個精神但在實務上司法轉向的一個安置輔導的案件量持續探低問題就是出在缺乏足夠的支持資源跟專業人員的挹注導致民間團體接手的時候那他們事實上是沒有辦法"},{"start":2463.906,"end":2484.154,"text":"來做承擔那這樣的問題除了依賴修法更需要各界的關注跟跨部會的資源整合跟協調終上懇請各位能夠共同審視此一攸關少年輔導處遇的問題並懇請支持我的修正草案給犯錯的孩子一條自新的道路謝謝大家 謝謝"},{"start":2486.345,"end":2503.839,"text":"好 謝謝林月琴委員 你的判本我看了 寫得很詳細不輸給司法院 但是就是你講的那個概念偷偷在轉變這個就到時候你要好好的出席來審這樣的這一部法案來 我們接下來其餘我們提出書面報告的機關有沒有口頭的補充"},{"start":2514.84,"end":2528.412,"text":"機關代表報告完畢了相關的書面內容請各位參閱並列入記錄提案說明跟機關的報告都已經進行完畢我們現在來進行詢答本會委員詢答時間8分鐘"},{"start":2531.394,"end":2545.59,"text":"必要時我們得延長兩分鐘就8加2啦非本會委員詢答時間五分鐘我們就不再延長然後上午我們10點半截止發言登記現在請登記第一位黃國昌委員來做詢答"},{"start":2557.736,"end":2585.117,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩有請司法院副秘書長法務部政務次長請王副秘 徐政次好 委員長委員長來 兩位早時間的關係直接切入正題那個PPT對不起 先等一下兩位好 時間的關係不宜問候"},{"start":2586.789,"end":2609.743,"text":"法務部在今年的業務報告說要落實武打七安強化打擊詐欺這些業務報告大概都是寫作文每一次的業務報告抄來抄去都是延續過去的作為我們來看一下過去的作為到底是如何我們的政府說要打詐"},{"start":2614.301,"end":2638.967,"text":"有打詐國家隊丟臉丟到國際社會上太子集團跑來台灣設詐欺洗錢總部就在我們的101裡我們的打詐國家隊渾然不覺 麻木不仁美國人辦案辦到台灣來了才驚醒"},{"start":2640.368,"end":2664.973,"text":"原來這個跨國的詐欺洗錢集團已經在我們的101入住啦過去這段時間 我相信社會大眾對於這件事情的憤怒以及對於我們的法務部門檢調部門的無能的這些聲音 次長有沒有聽到"},{"start":2667.987,"end":2685.653,"text":"報告委員 我們有在檢討 那禮拜一沒關係 你們繼續檢討嘛國安一律 打造國家會對 各說各話各說各話要 各說各話到什麼時候現在開始進行國家足球隊的比賽什麼時候會有結論"},{"start":2687.492,"end":2702.022,"text":"出了事嘛 發現我們的打造國家隊是一場笑話麻木不仁 趕快裝忙 開會檢討檢討完了以後繼續觀樣文章 各說各話需要多少的時間 來 請法務部"},{"start":2705.458,"end":2726.638,"text":"報告委員我想我們需要多少時間針對問題回答我今天問題很多啦我也不要耽誤其他委員的時間我們週一已經開完那個跨部會的會議了而且各部會呢針對我們目前好你們跨部會會議有會議記錄嗎有那會議記錄會後給我可以嗎可以下班以前送來可以嗎不行"},{"start":2727.459,"end":2747.393,"text":"現在還在整理好 沒關係 需要多久 給我一個時間一個禮拜一個禮拜 好 一個禮拜以後給我索隆派說台北101是國家門面不能讓它變成詐騙 贊不贊成贊成這個案子是台北101成為詐欺營運中心的首案嗎是第一個案子嗎"},{"start":2748.968,"end":2769.947,"text":"這個我要查一下還要查喔這麼嚴重欸行政院院長都講話了欸說是 101是國家門面不能成為詐騙的中心欸啊你們不是打詐國家隊所以我才問你嘛101成為詐騙中心太子集團是第一個案子嗎是嗎知不知道"},{"start":2771.229,"end":2799.986,"text":"後面法務部的官員有沒有任何人知道是第一個案子嗎這個我們必須要了解一下不能必須要了解一下嘛對啊所以我就說你們麻木部門啊你們早就知道了或者我應該說你們早就應該要知道了為什麼我說你們早就知道了你們早就應該要知道了因為這件事情我在這邊質詢過來看一下莊文智啊金融詐騙重犯莊文智啊"},{"start":2801.804,"end":2828.763,"text":"設了好幾間公司在101啊當初啊他要跑的時候啊你們在追他啊司機從豪宅離開直奔101大樓他為什麼直奔101大樓他開的公司全部都在101裡啊這個你們不知道啊 這你們不知道中文字欸 金融重範欸還是因為他八股很強"},{"start":2830.29,"end":2848.607,"text":"早就錄住101了啦中文字就是一個最有名的案子啊包委員 個案細節的部分陳辦的檢察官會比較清楚我們個案不會去干預說那這樣子的話現在左榮泰是不是在干預個案"},{"start":2850.642,"end":2875.568,"text":"101不能成為詐騙中心不是左榮泰講的嗎這跟個案無關沒有這樣子的個案左榮泰會講這樣的話這是一個國家政策的問題當然是一個國家政策的問題嘛但是國家的政策有沒有落實是大家關心的嘛現在我為什麼提出質詢左榮泰講這樣的話好像赫然發現太子集團是第一案"},{"start":2876.388,"end":2905.132,"text":"所以呢行政院院長特別重視不能成為詐騙中心全體國人都支持嘛連院長都講話了嘛但我在講的是什麼我在講的是卓榮泰是不知不覺嗎今天才發現嗎早就該發現啊為什麼早就該發現中文字的案子就有名的啊很厲害啊非常厲害啊他涉及到犯罪行為還有民進黨的立委要幫他修法脫罪"},{"start":2909.127,"end":2918.492,"text":"他的詐騙營運總部就設在101啊然後呢 他詐騙營運總部設在101的我提出告發了以後你們才動起來啊我2023年2月的時候就去告發啦結果你們2025年4月才起訴我覺得非常驚訝因為告發的時候所有的市政都告訴你們啊偵辦了兩年多欸"},{"start":2940.295,"end":2951.363,"text":"偵辦了兩年多終於起訴了我上一次問另外一位市長黃某熙他說他會去了解為什麼要花兩年多的時間請問了解完了嗎請問了解完了嗎他就在那個備詢台上答應我他要回去了解"},{"start":2960.97,"end":2988.75,"text":"我事證整理得這麼清楚他說要回去了解搞了兩年多你知道為什麼搞了兩年多嗎因為相關的事證比較繁雜真的嗎 相關事證比較繁雜其他的早就判刑了還相關事證比較繁雜講空話真的有去了解喔其他人都被判刑了只放了一個中文字連高院法官都看不下去啊說這個首腦啊"},{"start":2991.175,"end":3017.842,"text":"我沒有辦法判因為檢察官沒有起訴法官在判決書裡面寫這個詐騙的集團的首腦我沒有辦法判因為刑事訴訟他沒有被檢察官起訴我法官沒辦法判那代表什麼代表這個案子不僅早就查完了連法院端都審判了結果去告發"},{"start":3019.69,"end":3047.922,"text":"因為我看了以後我是瞠目結舌這個中文字真是神通廣大神通廣大下面的人都辦了結果首腦沒有辦首腦為什麼沒有辦法官為什麼沒有判因為我們的檢察官沒起訴然後我去告發然後你現在跟我講說案件很龐雜要偵辦兩年多你站在那邊講空話"},{"start":3051.892,"end":3079.266,"text":"我有說錯嗎回去看一下2023年2月到你起訴為止請問那個卷證增加多少卷證就是檢察官的偵查作為嘛辦案指揮單嘛派了警察 派了調查員去幹了什麼事嘛卷宗裡面都要有啊我跟你保證啊2023年2月以後的那個卷證啊薄薄的一本"},{"start":3080.393,"end":3098.022,"text":"薄薄的一本讓你感覺不到它的存在為什麼因為其他該有的偵查作為早就做完了只是沒有起訴中文字我有說錯嗎我有說錯嗎你拿出事實拿出證據來反駁我說我說錯站在國會裡面講空話你知道為什麼拖兩年多才起訴嗎市長你知不知道"},{"start":3109.037,"end":3133.53,"text":"這個要了解好啊 不用了解我直接跟你講因為人跑了啦因為人跑了啦中文字跑掉了啦逃亡了以後才起訴大家在問的是我們是在搞笑嗎是在搞笑嗎人跑了才起訴大家恍然大悟啊為什麼拖這麼久"},{"start":3135.401,"end":3150.695,"text":"快給他照 確定他跑了再來起訴這叫打炸國家隊 這叫丟人現眼丟人現眼跟立法院要這麼多預算 拿去幹什麼來 三立的一模一樣 我也公開質詢過"},{"start":3162.326,"end":3180.313,"text":"詐騙洗錢的公司設在三立集團的裡面我上次問結果宣傳股份有限公司負責洗錢的這家公司現在辦解散了我上次問黃某信他就說這個我們一定會追查來 請問追查到哪裡追查到哪裡"},{"start":3190.461,"end":3218.569,"text":"有在追查嗎個案的那個北檢在追查中現在還在追查 沒關係沒關係我只要定期就會問一次你就慢慢跟大家講我們都還在追查我們打詐很有利啦但是打詐很有利要看顏色啊如果跟綠營關係好的就軟趴趴啦動都不動 跟你說還在偵查從我上次問到現在要偵查多久來 我們再繼續往下看"},{"start":3219.64,"end":3236.925,"text":"這是聯合報的社論炸團跟綠網軍二合一的魔性組合內容你們自己慢慢去拜讀這個是寫到報紙的社論他講的是什麼事情他講的是有一個黃域科技網軍集團裡面有個歐秉漢 氣泡檢討 人跑了"},{"start":3240.575,"end":3257.566,"text":"他做了什麼事情 做了趙振宇拿錢給他 要去黑誰 黑邱若驊的事情抹黑惡意汙止邱若驊與地方黑幫勾結邱委員是被害人 我不幫他發聲 邱委員自己去問但除了這個以外發現 這個詐騙集團這個詐騙集團 原來還經營網軍業務李能謙 網軍投資 前三立電視製作人"},{"start":3269.09,"end":3284.554,"text":"然後偽冒黃仁勳詐騙粉專然後結果他在搞的是什麼有7000個人頭賬戶在惡意醜化台灣民眾黨跟我黃國昌我看了這個新聞我是非常的詫異這個案子有在辦嗎還是簽結了這案子有在辦嗎"},{"start":3290.697,"end":3314.431,"text":"這案子有在辦嗎因為很奇怪這個案子還是在偵查中還在偵查中嘛繼續偵查好好偵查我們拭目以待看你什麼時候會偵查出來主席不好意思最後一分鐘就好了問一下司法院來請司法院副秘書長上一次針對有關於司法院施政計畫綱要我問你說你們明年的跟今年的"},{"start":3316.345,"end":3337.495,"text":"你要回去比對嘛比對的比例有多少是複製貼上我請你回去比對你跟我說遵照辦理你們有遵照辦理嗎比例是多少委員我們是有比對114年跟115年結果重複的比例是多少"},{"start":3338.641,"end":3346.516,"text":"確實是有高於一半是那個只有高於一半嗎比例是多少因為妳告訴我遵照辦理嘛是對 但是妳們回給我的公文"},{"start":3347.697,"end":3369.85,"text":"根本沒有回答問題啊解釋一堆你解釋了一堆為什麼會一樣但是最關鍵的問題是我請你們回去比對你答應我要遵照辦理嗎是那請問你們比對完重複的比例有多高有大概八成啊只有八成喔八成多 對沒有關係你們回去詳細比對的資料會後今天下班以前給我可以嗎"},{"start":3371.462,"end":3389.501,"text":"因為你上次答應我要做你沒有做啊我們有做啊那把東西給我可以嗎但是我們有跟委員講說那個為什麼就是因為沒有關係啊為什麼你們慢慢去解釋你們為什麼的公文我也看了你們為什麼也可以貼在司法院的網站昭告社會大眾"},{"start":3390.483,"end":3402.161,"text":"為什麼比例有這麼高但我care的事情是什麼你答應我的事情要做到你說你回去有比對那我要求很簡單履行上次的承諾把你比對的結果給我可以嗎"},{"start":3405.086,"end":3423.499,"text":"我又沒有解那個講就是說譬如說像國民法官有沒有對不起啊我請你把你比對的結果給我可以嗎因為這是你上次答應我的但你沒有做到這件事你回覆給我的解釋一堆為什麼重複這麼高委員我們有確實有比對那比對的結果給我可以嗎可以嗎上次你答應我了今天我請你把比對的結果給我有這麼困難嗎"},{"start":3436.462,"end":3461.235,"text":"主席不好意思 我在等他回答還是主席直接裁示請他把比對的結果給我他答應我的事情根本沒有給我啊說明一下好不好委員的那個裁示是要求我們比對那我們也比對了那我們比對之後也跟那個委員報告說這個比例 高比例的我們也說是有高比例的 是一樣那也說 但是你比對的結果給我有困難嗎我們除了數字 那是密切嗎"},{"start":3465.523,"end":3477.09,"text":"我請你比對的結果給我有困難嗎因為14年跟15年的這些施政計畫其實都是公開的對 但是你沒有回答我的問題我請你把比對的結果給我可以嗎還是召委你裁示一下我今天請他把比對的結果給我很過分嗎這是密件嗎 這是國家機密嗎"},{"start":3490.746,"end":3509.396,"text":"這是不得公開的卷宗嗎我們也有跟委員報告說哪些事項是重複的然後哪些事項是新增的那也解釋譬如說像國民法官他在每個階段雖然我們都寫說是國民法官的那個推動但是他每個階段有他實質做的不同我的問題還是一樣比對的結果給我可以嗎我們除了數字之外我們那個比對的這些內容也都有跟委員報告了說明交給委員沒有"},{"start":3519.724,"end":3545.451,"text":"你給我的東西我現在貼在上面你不要透過這種用講的方式來混淆視聽讓大家覺得好像你們比對的結果有給我我再說一次你們比對的結果沒有給我請把比對的結果給我可以嗎那個資訊公開法應該要揭露事情我們都揭露了就是說114年跟115年那個施政綱要這個內容是大家通都可以去看的"},{"start":3546.949,"end":3551.772,"text":"我現在請你把比對的結果給我啊這件事情召委才是啊 我們要這樣耗下去嗎好啦 我想啊 這個黃委員剛剛有提出的要求啦王富密他也很仔細的做一個說明啦可能就是你不滿意啦 好不好那再看看 如果沒有涉及到機密的話那如果該"},{"start":3570.643,"end":3589.946,"text":"沒有沒有 這個應該沒有涉及到機密那問題就是說司法院這個地方好像你聽起來王文明你認為你們也已經盡到說明還有回答的這樣一個義務那黃委員認為還有所不足我們接下來是不是先請陳培宇委員來做詢答以後這個問題我再來瞭解看看 好不好"},{"start":3590.851,"end":3613.628,"text":"我相信你啦好啦 我來了解一下你要當核四啦 我相信你啦你們兩邊你提出的要求不是啦 你是法律人我講得很清楚啦你一定聽得懂啦我當然聽得懂但是王富密代表司法院在這個地方的詢答裡面似乎也講得說司法院也盡到這樣的一個比對的義務我再來看看原先黃委員的要求是什麼啦你就看他公文嘛好啦 這樣先讓陳佩儀委員來做詢答好 謝謝"},{"start":3620.179,"end":3621.32,"text":"好 請回好 謝謝主席我們今天大家都是帥哥美女主席說的好 那接下來有請司法院 謝謝請王副秘書長"},{"start":3643.534,"end":3656.532,"text":"等一下 她電腦好 早 她電腦在更新不過沒關係 我就先講我們目前看到少事法要修法所以我們今天才會有這個討論第一個其實我想問的是關於我們如何界定所謂暴險少年何謂處罰少年"},{"start":3658.374,"end":3680.996,"text":"我覺得這個事情應該也是所有現在要修法大人們最頭痛的事情但是可能大家都先關注到突銷的時間但是我想要從最本質的問題開始我們如何界定一個孩子他現在狀況是需要政府單位介入來協助所謂政府單位指的是教育端、社政端到最後才會是司法端"},{"start":3681.596,"end":3701.162,"text":"那我們現在看到現行法的部分我們有關於當孩子們觸犯刑法的時候相關行為這個是所謂觸法少年那底下框列的在現行法裡面這些三個要點沒有正當理由帶著危險機械或者是用毒品或者是有預備犯罪這個比較像是曝險少年對不對這個當時我們在前一次修法的時候我們把這個框架限縮了那前一個版本就舊法的部分我紅色的部分"},{"start":3709.924,"end":3727.072,"text":"那個部分我們比較把它定義為是一種身份犯可能會給孩子貼標籤的問題也就是說在舊法跟現行法我們確實做了一些比較進步的改法我們不要給孩子貼標籤我們不要因為孩子有些身份好像就覺得他們是有可能是觸犯司法的"},{"start":3727.492,"end":3736.422,"text":"可是我想要拜託司法院去想另外一個事情當現在的社會生活跟社區生活的樣態越來越複雜的時候這樣現在現行版本的寫法真的可以真的匡列到所謂更多需要協助的少年嗎"},{"start":3743.73,"end":3771.249,"text":"會不會其實範圍有不夠廣想得不夠多但我的意思是並沒有要給孩子貼標籤而是我們司法院在這件事情上因為這次修法你們其實沒有提出這個部分但我認為這個部分是應該我們現在要來想的尤其是現在很多委員都一起關心的很多詐團很多黑道把少年當成工具人這件事情確實相關的樣態是比我們過去在現行法在修現行法的時候來得更複雜你們怎麼看"},{"start":3772.714,"end":3774.76,"text":"我原這個部分我請那個邵家廳長好 沒問題"},{"start":3778.564,"end":3804.879,"text":"謝謝委員垂詢我先報告委員剛剛說明的暴險少年的一個範圍隨著時代有沒有思考去調整目前就施用第三第四級毒品以及迷幻藥品的部分目前我們食物在操作跟延伤法案裡面應該要增加持有"},{"start":3806.46,"end":3827.637,"text":"那持有因為持有超過5公克就是有刑法法律那沒有超過5公克他吸食後一倍轉讓他都是屬於目前不顯的一部分這個急需要用需要吸就少年在邊緣應該去立即所以這個不顯隨著時代去思考不過剛剛委員講到這個"},{"start":3829.459,"end":3843.551,"text":"我們的少年被吸收到詐團去到了詐團去以後他去做收款或各項的行為這個已經觸犯刑法法律這個已經直接就適用少年私人處理法的保護事件"},{"start":3843.831,"end":3859.733,"text":"沒有問題這個我都清楚我要講的是如同你剛剛說的不管是持有的部分或者是更多的樣態我都認為因為我們在少事法裡面有分處罰少年跟曝險少年那曝險少年我們要用的是少年保護事件那我的意思是說站在積極"},{"start":3860.914,"end":3877.505,"text":"更進一步的保護少年的情況下我們要不要去想關於這個身分認定的部分關於這個範圍的部分我認為可以有更多討論不要只有談到突囂那我就先提出問題因為我也沒有答案說實話但我們從很多社政端跟教育端所看到的"},{"start":3877.824,"end":3905.105,"text":"孩子們在面臨的困境其實非常非常多我們等一下一一來談但是我還是想要先提出對於第三條的部分我認為我們有必要重新來討論好不好來 下一個42條的部分要談到安置機構其實我之前也提過最近這兩年安置機構普遍不願意收容司法少年當然是因為司法少年的狀況比較複雜那安置機構目前在處理從射陣端來的孩子的問題"},{"start":3905.845,"end":3933.719,"text":"也很複雜那導致安置機構他們就覺得反正我就不要收而且錢也沒有比較多可是要處理的事情也很多然後我的人力也不見得充分結果我們很多孩子就直接被送到繳校去這個當時的資料你們自己也是認同說確實在第一線的判決有這個傾向可是我們看見第一個是我覺得很令我們擔心我們辦了非常多次考察我們看到其實繳校收容孩子的人數也不斷暴增包含"},{"start":3934.299,"end":3958.245,"text":"少關所其實也是一樣可是回到安置機構有沒有能力有沒有人力有沒有資源去收容司法少年我認為這個問題必須要司法院跟衛福部一起來承擔並且討論考慮如何積極協助司法少年可以好好的進入安置機構而安置機構有足夠的人足夠的錢足夠的空間協助這些司法少年來請你們簡單回應一下"},{"start":3960.256,"end":3987.117,"text":"那個謝謝委員提出這個問題齁其實這個問題也是一直我們那個司法單位就是所關心的那立場完全跟那個委員一致齁因為畢竟法院端是司法單位我們不是設政單位那那個安置機構那個主管機關他是屬於設政這一端的所以法院呢他也覺得孩子有這個需求性想把他那個提那個就是把他那個裁定那個安置但是我們真的很困難去找到那個安置機構"},{"start":3987.998,"end":4013.826,"text":"目前只有11間是不是我們來看一下法院安置少年的需求可是沒有辦法實際媒合到安置機構我把相關數字統計出來在111年有8人 12年17人 113年 23人我想司法院這邊看得很清楚其實人數是逐漸上升也就是沒有辦法如願放到安置機構的司法少年其實人是越來越多而他回過頭來會壓到矯正學校所以我認為這個問題"},{"start":4015.646,"end":4033.455,"text":"既然少事法這一次要修了然後我們那個社安網也要展開新的階段我真的認為司法院要把這個問題積極的跟衛福部來討論跨部會溝通我們每一方面跨部會都接起來才可以把這些司法少年都接起來當然我們今天不會有答案可是我要再次把這個問題拋出來好嗎是好我們來看下一題"},{"start":4038.893,"end":4059.998,"text":"1976年的時候相關立法是說關於今天要談到這個塗銷的部分這個立法的流程我就寫在這邊不過我想你們兩位都非常清楚我就不再贅述可是我們現在看到行政院跟司法院的提案版本是說三年內未在因故意觸犯刑法法律而受保護處分或刑之宣告者視為未曾受各該宣告"},{"start":4060.518,"end":4072.986,"text":"你們真的認為這個修法版本有機會提升避免少年被幫派跟詐團利用嗎我對這件事情是有一些懷疑的但我想先聽聽看你們的看法"},{"start":4075.459,"end":4102.176,"text":"謝委員的垂詢這一個問題確實是過去我們一律沒有條件都把少年處罰的行為執行完畢兩年或三年就突銷了但近年來各類幫派或者詐團或者是各類犯罪把這些國中生高中生大量吸收那麼其中一個罪大家都了解的就是以少年接受輔導或感化教育出來紀錄都突銷"},{"start":4105.658,"end":4129.173,"text":"讓這些少年跟家長比較就會無所謂所以基於這樣參佐世界各國就一定的條件沒有突銷的部分來加以這個試著改變我國的少年司法你們這個在實務上有跟任何專家學者討論過或者是跟第一線的社工或在協助司法少年多年經驗的人討論過嗎這個三年內這個數字"},{"start":4133.055,"end":4161.184,"text":"是你們怎麼想出來怎麼討論出來的我說明一下這在司法院形成這樣的一個共識是有召開非常多的專家諮詢會議以及把國外的這個相關設有條件不塗銷的這些立法例年限都有收集那收集的結果因為我國原來採的是第一個立即塗銷就是說少年不負審理不保存確定"},{"start":4163.024,"end":4178.129,"text":"第二個就是非常輕微的這個所謂的教教養人家管教等這種不務審理的兩年突銷那一般的刑事處分或保護處分都三年突銷這是我國已經實施快20年了"},{"start":4179.449,"end":4201.798,"text":"那麼經過專家學者在我們諮詢會議裡面提供的應該除了CRC兒童權利公會最嚴重之罪要付條件但因應我國現在因為大量的幫派化吸收少年是不是可以在某個限度內但是為什麼會訂三年是這樣各國立法有兩年的"},{"start":4202.358,"end":4223.268,"text":"那麼也有五年的但是也有授權兩年內授權法官去裁量的那麼也有沒定期限只要是某個條件的罪都不徒消有這五大類我們發現國內實證研究還沒有但是收集到實務的資料最多就是國中生"},{"start":4223.988,"end":4226.429,"text":"是14歲 15歲那加3年就18歲這個最容易被吸收犯罪期就16 17 18這種高中職的16 17 18喔 對廠長 我覺得啦這個我們可以再討論因為為什麼我要特別問這個問題"},{"start":4240.234,"end":4256.492,"text":"我個人當然有我個人的見解不過我們之後逐條的時候再來討論不過這一次有非常多不管是朝野委員提案的版本其實大家對於這個年限或者是要再附加什麼條件其實大家見解非常的不同而且我們還要考慮到社會的人民對這件事情的觀感"},{"start":4257.273,"end":4274.968,"text":"大家對於司法少年到底是所謂的生物痛覺還是真的可以認知到孩子們在過去的生命成長經驗遇到了一些困境所以他走上歧路我認為這都還需要社會溝通所以我剛留些時間給您說明但我想今天時間有限我們就之後主條再來討論最後一個問題抱歉主席再幾分鐘就好"},{"start":4277.97,"end":4294.658,"text":"其實孩子講到這麼多其實在相關的少年更生保護協會他們就有一個演講裡面提到我今天談的很多事情其實過去我也都跟司法系統討論過孩子們最大的困境常常是出了矯正機構停止感化教育之後他回到原生家庭去"},{"start":4295.959,"end":4310.882,"text":"最慘的狀況就是壞掉的小孩壞掉的大人繼續教已經壞過一次的小孩對嗎 我相信你們都非常的清楚或者是我們很多社工師 心理師好不容易接住小孩可是他回到原生家庭之後"},{"start":4314.301,"end":4328.795,"text":"我可以繼續嗎他回到原生家庭之後家庭已經壞掉了所以這個孩子在原生家庭沒有辦法被接住的情況下他可能又走回頭路所以我們剛才會談到突囂這件事情所以我認為我知道司法院的系統一直有在協助"},{"start":4329.315,"end":4348.685,"text":"相關的孩子的家長做家庭教育也好親子教育也好但是我認為這件事情不該只有落在你們身上拜託你們積極去找教育部溝通找衛福部溝通我們如何把社政教育端社政端教育端司法端結合起來協助家長的家庭教育也好親子教育也好"},{"start":4349.585,"end":4376.1,"text":"讓這些曾經壞掉的孩子他唯一一個可以安全去的地方就是他的家而這個家不要讓他繼續破碎我認為這件事情我們在教育部已經談了很久那教育部相關預算其實也不夠可是我非常感謝司法院第一線的同仁我們去考察的時候看到你們都有在做但是我認為這件事情我們要把教育現場的人拉進來把家長拉進來把教育部拉進來我可不可以聽一下你們的看法"},{"start":4379.513,"end":4405.691,"text":"謝謝委員推詢謝謝這部分確實是非常重大的議題為什麼一個少年能夠各類輔導集中其中最重要的是家庭功能的提升所以家庭功能的提升謝謝委員剛剛也觀察到我們各個少年法庭調查保護室都在進行這樣的一個所謂親子教育的功能的恢復那我們現在因為有二級聯繫會議就是每一個法院"},{"start":4406.371,"end":4432.231,"text":"跟縣市政府的一個少年資源合作目前已經都提出了所謂的各縣市的教育局所屬的家庭教育中心依照這樣的一個法律規定他們裡面也有親子教育的一個推動跟預算所以我們政要努力去結合政要太好了也就是說過往可能在這一段跟家庭教育中心的連結比較弱拜託後續政要的部分我們如何拜託家庭教育中心"},{"start":4433.752,"end":4450.564,"text":"積極針對這些司法少年 個案家庭做更多協助然後把社政系統也導入不要讓第一線司法同仁都已經在處理司法案件都已經快要崩潰了還要花很多時間回過頭做家庭教育當然我還是要再次感謝我們去考察的時候看到同仁們在第一線的付出 好嗎好 謝謝 謝謝主席 謝謝"},{"start":4453.086,"end":4478.183,"text":"好 謝謝我們陳佩瑜委員那這一次我們這個排審這個少年事件處理法大家應該特別有感受到那其實過去整個少年事件處理法是採取教化啦比較寬容然後多元處理的一個方式那這麼多委員的版本其實我真的每一個我都有去看"},{"start":4478.863,"end":4486.475,"text":"那我去做一個比較以後我現在發現其實司法院這個地方你們這次變得反而回應社會的一個疑慮你們變得激進了"},{"start":4487.549,"end":4510.224,"text":"這是我的感覺所以我是覺得應該是好好的這部法律概念上你要去轉變的時候那確實應該跟社會好好的對話那提出這六個版本的委員的其實也都很專業那我的版本很快也會進來大家好好來做一個討論因為這個涉及到整個制度"},{"start":4511.484,"end":4534.102,"text":"從過去概念大家都認為小孩子犯錯就是社會不對就是大人沒有去教好那現在我們認為這個要用特別預防甚至你沒有一定轉嫁你沒有自己承擔一點風險的話就不給你恩惠有類似這樣的一個概念所以可能大家就好好來做一個討論好 接下來我們來請林倩琦委員來做詢問"},{"start":4543.021,"end":4557.818,"text":"好 謝謝我們主席莊昭偉我這邊先有一個前言當然也是呼應我們昭偉剛才所講的大概我們到現在這個階段很多不僅是概念轉變了但是在概念轉變的時候"},{"start":4560.06,"end":4582.671,"text":"其實同樣的整個配套制度也必須要相對完整所以本席今天其實要針對這個少年事件處理法導入行政輔導先行的制度實務上面臨的兩大問題來跟各部會來更新一下目前的一個進度那麼第一個部分是中央層級跨部會整合機制的缺席本席之前一直提"},{"start":4583.351,"end":4602.5,"text":"那第二個部分是地方執行量能與流程鍛煉的結構性困境制度強調預防優於懲罰但是如果沒有運作良好的治理中樞跟穩定的人力財務支撐最後只會指上改革就是剛才本席呼應我們主席這邊所講的"},{"start":4603.681,"end":4618.564,"text":"其實配套的部分也必須要做得比較細緻所以像台南少府會最近就傳出性騷內鬥而導致空轉的這樣一個疑雲那麼在報載也明確提到台南少府會資源少"},{"start":4619.105,"end":4644.062,"text":"所以沒有強制力那各單位調來的職員多靠熱忱來工作所以本席以下就先針對設置少年事件中樞機構也就是如何在中央給錢給人來設置一個中央的統籌機構那接下來是不是請我們副秘書長跟法務部的徐次長請王副秘書長還有徐政策"},{"start":4646.291,"end":4671.416,"text":"好 謝謝兩位所以第一個部分是中央的這個部分本席一直強調已經也好幾次了我們目前中央的統籌機構的缺席而導致整個評估標準分散在校安諮詢跟輔導網路那麼少年法院跟關戶體系還有警政通報 社政跟心理健康各自為政資料各自管理流程也不太相通"},{"start":4672.256,"end":4689.41,"text":"那麼少府會在地方扮演一些協調的平台但是沒有中央的一個常設中樞的一個機構給予一些統一的標準績效的指標跟預算的一個支持那麼更缺少跨部會決策的一個資源調度實質的一個主導的一個指揮權"},{"start":4690.371,"end":4718.588,"text":"結果呢在地方上呢都會區勉強還可以上軌道但是呢非都會區或偏鄉長期是資源不足而導致機制空轉那麼司法院你們是不是認同應該設置本席之前有提出來的全國少年行政輔導與資源整合中心那也就是一個中央少婦會的概念然後來跨部會成為一個跨部會的中樞負責標準作業流程通報的資訊的一個整合"},{"start":4719.508,"end":4744.535,"text":"風險模型的一個建置跟量能落差的一個縮減可以做個案的一些支援這個部分會後是不是也可以再提供給本席最新的一個進度我這邊強調在一戰式的通報跟風險預警的重要性中央應該還是要建置一個跨部會的少年偏差行為通報整合的平台以單一的個案來串聯學校缺課"},{"start":4746.455,"end":4763.962,"text":"礦課、霸凌事件、警政的記錄、設政的服務還有就醫和心理的評估然後設定資料治理的規範跟權限要做分級導入結構化的風險工具如YLS或CMI或SAVERY的同類型的評估連動風險分級、儲遇的建議跟轉介的路徑、三段式的決策"},{"start":4771.365,"end":4799.72,"text":"那麼這樣或許對涉毒幫派的一個吸收跟暴力傾向的高風險個案我們可以很迅速的來觸發應變轉入司法系統的一個標準那是不是司法院跟法務部可以就現行少年法院跟關乎體系的一個銜接跟資訊互動的情形還有評估的一個機制那把更詳盡的一個內容提供給本席那現在可以做一個簡單的一個回應嗎其實重點就是中央的這樣一個機構的一個設置"},{"start":4801.322,"end":4802.95,"text":"那你們評估的一個可行性"},{"start":4805.717,"end":4830.417,"text":"幫委員我們非常感佩委員對於少年制度的關心委員以上所提的這些建議因為它是屬於行政端的進入到法院之前或者是法院之後外圍的這一端它並不是一個司法議題所以說這個部分因為不是司法院的職權我們不便於就是說"},{"start":4833.339,"end":4861.568,"text":"主要先前你其實有建議應該是在行政院下面來設置這樣一個平台對不對我們不會那個越權去做建議就是說因為它並不是一個司法司法的那個應該是說我們在談這個問題當中您這樣一個論調先前其實也有提過我們肯定這個方向是所以這相關的行政單位是不是也可以做一個回應這個是本席一直在關心也就是中央機構的一個設置然後能夠來銜接各地方實質的一個運作"},{"start":4863.035,"end":4877.354,"text":"報告委員因為邵府會的那個主管是內政部不是法務部所以大概目前的態度呢我們對主管機關的決定我們都支持委員的見解是比較完整性"},{"start":4878.015,"end":4899.801,"text":"因為現在真的是各地方這樣一個效果不彰我們這個預防的這樣一個效果其實在實時的運作上目前真的是有點轉不動尤其是偏鄉或者是財力人力都不太足的相對的都會區是有一個實時的問題因為這不是本部的業務所以我很不好意思不好幫人家回答 謝謝"},{"start":4900.461,"end":4919.772,"text":"你們應該更積極一點大家都說有平台要跨部會但是各部會當你們談到本席所講的一個中樞的機構的時候其實你們應該更積極的做一個支持跟配合嘛委員的理想我們都支持但是就是保護部是主於犯罪偵查那個離少年的輔導還有一段距離"},{"start":4920.792,"end":4933.868,"text":"但是本席講的前面這段如果沒有做好你們後面就會很累所以我說我支持委員的看法謝謝法務部的支持接下來本席可不可以請警政署蕭副局長還有衛福部"},{"start":4939.366,"end":4961.91,"text":"郭副司長 是嗎還有教育部 戴副還有我們原民會的亞博省運處長也在當然原住民的議題是本席非常關心的今天因為我們在法案的這個部分也有提到跟原住民相關的本席的這個概念也希望原民會這邊也能夠了解剛才我已經講了一個整體的概念"},{"start":4962.49,"end":4977.642,"text":"接下來我就要為地方來請命了地方所碰到的問題各部會所以我們都在講跨部會但是好像是如果沒有直接關擠或沒有很大的事件發生大家就是可能我們就很保守的對應"},{"start":4978.522,"end":4992.858,"text":"但是這樣一個我們目前這樣很大的一個概念的轉變其實在這幾年大家也看到地方確實是那個量能不足所以本席在這邊跟大家談一下現在地方的一個情形第一個"},{"start":4993.339,"end":5017.902,"text":"是資料不太互通所以教育 警政 社政那麼原民我想我們也是一個等於是一個小內閣了那各自記錄那我相信那個原民會又更辛苦了這個部分在地方還要那麼多的事務還要再去追這個相關的這些主題的主管的這樣業務其實是各單位主管的業務也是蠻辛苦的但是畢竟這個部分還是要做因為"},{"start":5018.582,"end":5037.056,"text":"我想這個原名的這個區塊在這裡面其實是也常常會被忽略的所以在資料不互通的一個情況下呢那教育警政社政都各自記錄那麼同樣一個少年通報呢缺乏那個唯一的識別跟整合的儀表板那麼沒有辦法形成一個完整的風險樣態第二個部分"},{"start":5039.418,"end":5055.358,"text":"是協作的機制沒有強制力那麼少府會為什麼一直強調中央的一個重要性沒有法律明文的規定強制來召集權所以跨部會在做這個相關決策的時候常常會出現呢出席的局處人員不齊"},{"start":5056.059,"end":5072.588,"text":"那決議也沒有辦法實地運作的情況那第三個部分是工具不太精準那我們也沒有導入結構化的風險評估工具跟分級的一個處遇的路徑那都是承辦人的經驗的一個判斷那措施的很重要的介入的這個時機點"},{"start":5073.849,"end":5078.312,"text":"根據2024本席這邊的調查 少婦會的不開案率高達了36%不開案最大的原因就是不符合所謂的曝險標準但是修法後的曝險三類的指標 反而會讓孩子更難進入少婦會體系來及早輔導"},{"start":5096.423,"end":5124.214,"text":"那麼警政署衛福部教育部你們一同可不可以一同說明現行跨系統的一個資料對接的一個改善然後也請司法院說明強化少婦會法定的一個權限暴險少年制度改進的一個修法的一個規劃好不好那如果有現在簡單的回應如果沒有事後將比較詳盡的書面資料提供給本席好不好那請各單位現在可不可以針對剛才本席所講的部分做一個回應"},{"start":5126.175,"end":5144.063,"text":"現在委員的提示那委員講的真的是一針見血那邵委會是在內政部體制裡面那事實上執行邵委會的執行是在各縣市政府裡面簡單的來做表述就是說這個縣市要看"},{"start":5145.262,"end":5175.002,"text":"縣市長有沒有這樣的理念這個縣市長有這樣的理念所以當中央我們修了一個法然後改了一個概念結果事實上整個配套還有實際進行都有點空轉你不覺得嗎然後談到各部會的一個業務那大家說那主管部會如何如何麻煩你們在會後把相關的這個資料給本席做一個回應但是本席還是一直追我覺得中央沒有這樣一個平台地方的量能真的是不足最後我要向主管單位衛福部"},{"start":5176.103,"end":5186.871,"text":"我來跟你們請命一下啦整個其實在你們這樣導入行政輔導先行的一個修法上路之後呢雖然我們希望能夠透過輔導來代替懲罰讓預防來代替矯正但是呢"},{"start":5191.794,"end":5211.667,"text":"這其實前線的社工還有少府員成了最大的受害者因為配套不到位那行政負擔又被增資源卻在原地踏步那中生代的職員就紛紛的離職那制度的根基正在崩壞所以當我們有這樣概念的時候實質的運作如果配套沒有跟上它就會像這幾年的空轉"},{"start":5212.307,"end":5237.47,"text":"那地方更是辛苦所以本席要在這邊為第一線的這個相關的人員請命那衛福部衛福部應該在這個區塊做更深入的一個了解然後大家的離職還有資源的這個不足或者是實際運作跟跨部會較不動的狀況你們到底怎麼樣在配套上能夠真正來處理才能夠符合我們這樣一個修法的概念那這個部分可不可以簡單回應"},{"start":5241.436,"end":5265.916,"text":"因為目前邵府會主管是在內政部但剛剛委員提到的這個跨系統這相關的人員應該是在你們下面如果是那個警政這邊也有申請那個社安網的經費補助來充實地方邵府會的人力那各個系統之間如果有需要一些個案資料的串接這個部分如果邵府會的系統提出來我們社政這邊都可以來做相關的配合"},{"start":5266.736,"end":5282.669,"text":"所以這邊本席三點 建議很快第一個 設置跨部會的常設中樞機構這是本席講了好幾次了第二個部分是健全通報整合的平台跟風險工具第三 拜託改善第一線人員的待遇跟環境"},{"start":5283.169,"end":5304.777,"text":"那麼可不可以針對本席今天所講的幾點本席比較關心實務上的一個運作我們法可以一直修但是所有東西如果沒有跟上概念的一個整體配套很多時候你就會空轉好幾年所以可不可以在一個月之內針對本席所談的這幾點給本席一個比較詳盡的一個回應好不好可以嗎 各單位"},{"start":5310.205,"end":5323.892,"text":"可以嗎 那我要一個一個問嗎那司法院可以嗎 法務部可以嗎衛福部 警政署你們不可以法務部跟你會手啊說沒有啦會手是說不行還是可以這個業務跟法務部比較沒有關係沒關係 另外因為你指涉的單位比較多看要哪幾個單位"},{"start":5331.036,"end":5342.1,"text":"那再跟我講一下 好不好好 謝謝我們林倩琦委員的詢答因為你的口才實在是太好了沒有站起來 你越講越精彩那接下來請各單位官員請回我們接下來請王逸川委員來詢答今天如果超過85分貝都強制驅離喔"},{"start":5362.281,"end":5385.495,"text":"德晓主席我是请这个司法院副秘书长还有法务部次长请王副秘书长还有徐政次还有我们那个厅长谢谢厅长好我先请问一下按照你们的分析现在少年事件大概是哪三类的事件"},{"start":5386.035,"end":5392.892,"text":"哪三類的這個案件最容易被安置或者是保護管束有沒有這樣的統計"},{"start":5397.085,"end":5417.414,"text":"謝謝委員的吹詢這個第一類是就是說重視我應該說不要用犯罪來分類先做他的家庭的功能非常脆弱那他已經處罰那處罰有可能比較重有可能比較輕我是說譬如說詐騙或是台人如果案件分析"},{"start":5418.374,"end":5434.35,"text":"那第一類最多的就是所謂的加入幫派或者加入這個不良組織不良組織因為他這個不隔離不行但是他還沒有到一直去殺人或有非常嚴重的事發你說的第一種這種的一般都幾年"},{"start":5436.772,"end":5448.556,"text":"你說安置嗎安置是延長兩年總共四年所以我們可以延長到四年的安置安置是比較柔軟的教育輔導這是第一種第二種就是已經都一直在販毒集團裡面做這些運送小弟這個不隔離不行家庭無功能你讓他回去不行的"},{"start":5463.34,"end":5477.657,"text":"這是那個販毒的罪很重那它有時候是屬於這個幫助那減減減減下來就可以減到三年以下就可以給它社區處理緩刑但是家庭無功能應該要安置這是"},{"start":5479.139,"end":5498.27,"text":"再來就是現在最多的這個就是所謂的剛剛講乍欺加上性剝削這一類的孩子那他也是因為家庭功能很薄弱所以也需要安置但是我們目前因為這樣的孩子一直在患那要用各種輔導"},{"start":5499.491,"end":5529.109,"text":"的方案包括就业辅导都效果不彰的时候他又被犯罪集团把它吸收去了所以我们就会隔离到感化院去所以你刚刚提的这三类第一类就加入这种帮派组织对不对那第二种是贩毒那第三个是诈骗诈欺的跟性剥削就这三类那这三类被安置完之后不管回到家庭或回到哪里"},{"start":5529.775,"end":5554.454,"text":"他們再犯了以後又變成哪些類型這一類他因為安置完是會開銜接會議 社政要來我們一起來接那個就是說我們認為他已經準備回到社會或者是已經回到社會了嘛他年少無知搞不懂然後就被安置了然後之後他又回到社會以後他又再犯最多的是哪幾種"},{"start":5556.563,"end":5578.221,"text":"類似這一種就是回到家裡我們在銜接的這種安排不夠量能就是各方的效能不足以致他又出去再處罰那通常這一類的又再處罰的嚴重性很重很重通常都是逆送給檢察官就判處徒刑就進入民養中學"},{"start":5578.701,"end":5596.251,"text":"之後那個類型有沒有改變你剛講那前三大類後來有沒有改變比較不會改變的是販毒的都會繼續去跟毒品集團在一起這一類不太改變那性的部分因為經過很多設計各種可能性的輔導有比較改善它可能會變成一般的這個所謂的加入這個這個詐欺等等"},{"start":5604.255,"end":5627.167,"text":"那詐欺的最容易再犯因為他不願意去工作沒有人督促然後原來我們幫他職業訓練的又被免職掉因為他沒有按時去工作那這個時候又變成開始又吸收到犯罪集團為什麼先問這三類因為今天的所有委員的提案裡頭啊有提到包括你們提的三年內"},{"start":5628.388,"end":5634.602,"text":"再犯或者是有委員提的5年內對這個3跟5你們的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":5636.766,"end":5659.945,"text":"謝謝委員催省那基本上我們在所有少年國際公約跟我們少事法是希望早日去少年的標籤化當我們輔導有效果他這個把它塗銷前岸有利於他回歸社會的工作啊生活等這個是一個非常重要的所以那個3你們沒有改"},{"start":5660.938,"end":5671.726,"text":"我們三年原則上這個可以討論我們沒有說一定這樣這是你們的案子裡頭沒有去改三這個沒有改然後有委員改成五對我跟委員報告原來那個輕微處罰我們不務審理家長管教的或轉介的這個以前是兩年我們現在給它拉長三年因為這種家庭這個退家的比較容易再換所以我們拉長三年OK"},{"start":5688.417,"end":5697.445,"text":"那第二個是故意嘛我看大家都有這個故意的文字故意的文字裡面看起來應該也沒有什麼爭議就是要把這個故意加進去嘛就是因為你剛剛講說這個他第一次犯可能是有前三大類 對不對然後他如果再犯那再犯的 譬如說再犯那個販毒的"},{"start":5710.334,"end":5736.012,"text":"跟這一個性的或者是這個詐欺詐騙的這些他再去犯這個就算故意了故意 故意 故意對吧 算故意好 那我們要這樣排除是因為很多孩子會去偷開車偷騎機車那就產生很多事故這個是過失那這個如果都算進去尤其有些孩子要去工作他就奇責這個就去車禍這個過失不給他算入"},{"start":5738.254,"end":5750.383,"text":"那偷東西算不算故意偷東西是故意可是他之前不是這個案子然後後來的這個犯的刑法是去偷東西然後是 這就算故意嗎算故意那第三個是"},{"start":5752.532,"end":5768.449,"text":"關於這一個幾年就是說這個本形就是本形就是有些委員是說那就是只要有期徒刑的或者是沒有被緩刑的那有些是5年以上的有些是這個幾年以上的這個你們有什麼看法"},{"start":5769.643,"end":5798.436,"text":"包括委員在目前這五年內整個台灣少年在處罰的部分大量被黑幫或者犯罪集團或者詐團吸收以至於我們在保護管束的過程少年在患經我們詳細的追蹤普查他都在這些組織裡面所以才會經過非常多的專家諮詢會議跟社會普查意見"},{"start":5799.256,"end":5812.987,"text":"希望希望在這個時候我們就採取說只要處在處罰前面的處罰執行完畢三年內再處罰給他保護處分後行之宣告就不凸消當然這樣"},{"start":5815.208,"end":5843.417,"text":"有一個憂慮就是說造成他有一個前瞞標籤一直放在身上如果他將來有改善不容易但是至少這5年來發展到現在33%幾乎都是加入幫派或者是集團的有嚇阻作用跟阻止搶小孩的作用但是如果以各位的提案我們也都競表各位討論以後不是 我知道你們當然都尊重立法院"},{"start":5844.517,"end":5863.256,"text":"就是說這樣是一個重罪才屠殺的條件一個宣誓的概念就是說這個委員是說譬如你剛剛提到就是只要有有期徒刑就是不能徒對不對那這一個委員的提案是這個要受五年的五年以上的對不對五年以上的就不能徒對不對是"},{"start":5865.031,"end":5882.834,"text":"我是意思說有期徒刑跟5年以上這差很多就是說對在犯的那個少年我為什麼提這個是因為他接下來譬如說這一些幫派或者這一些詐騙集團他們也很懂法律他可能就教育年輕人"},{"start":5884.434,"end":5907.554,"text":"教育那些年輕人說你這個其實你犯這個是多少的你犯這個是幾年的所以你還是有機會被塗銷的那你以後就是塗銷以後你就一切清白了所以你來做這個沒關係你可能20歲25歲你就都沒事了就是說這樣的一個宣示的意義跟你剛剛提的是有期徒刑就算的話那這兩個"},{"start":5908.939,"end":5918.86,"text":"你們現在認為因為你們提出來沒有寫幾年你們就是有期徒刑而已那這個是不是要跟大家再解釋一下為什麼你們會做這樣的一個宣示"},{"start":5921.073,"end":5940.1,"text":"多年來 20年來我國沒有設任何條件都突銷以至於早年校園學生跟一般離校學生被吸收到幫派還沒那麼多但是近五年來高達百分之三十幾的百分比有這樣被收集分析"},{"start":5940.66,"end":5964.58,"text":"那這樣的一個社會變遷跟黑幫跟學校搶小孩還有跟我們的家庭搶小孩所以我們才會主張說是不是就來把整個社會的認知跟學校學生所有各類生活的認知說我們不能利用小孩利用小孩他前來會被留住不利於他復歸社會這個是我們的想法但"},{"start":5967.642,"end":5994.027,"text":"我也真的要誠實的跟委員報告而全公約說要求各會員國只有少年最嚴重的犯罪才要設條件不塗銷那這樣在很多國家只有定義說幾年徒刑以上或性侵或者是一次嚴重謀殺很多人的才不塗其他都塗這個是一個政策跟國際公約的衝突"},{"start":5996.047,"end":6014.431,"text":"這就是我們召委提的這事情要好好討論因為你們今天提的算是很嚴的算是很嚴的那其他委員提的就沒有那麼嚴相對而言所以這事情社會還是要進行溝通好 謝謝謝謝王逸川委員的詢問"},{"start":6022.729,"end":6049.202,"text":"這個召委今天很冷靜坐在這個地方我是在分析還有看待很多事情我從今天的那個陰背的這個發現了一件事情今天司法院尤其是中廳長在答詢的時候也差不多八十九分貝就代表說沒有沒有沒有沒有特別的意思就你對這一件整個邵氏法的一個"},{"start":6050.686,"end":6074.31,"text":"條文的一個修正案 你內心是澎湃 激昂的那反而立法院 除了第一位委員詢答以外其他的都是差不多六十幾 七十幾分貝司法院今天的立場 還有言論 都比法務部還要激進"},{"start":6075.953,"end":6104.106,"text":"要特別小心 廷長整個制度的一個變革是好事但是司法院針對這個案子裡面因為你涉及到這整個處遇的一個轉換那還要因為你也提到了整個國際的兒童公約談到我們整個立法的一個過程這個都好事啦回應社會的期待或者說要解決社會現狀碰到的問題確實該大家來及時廣益但是這一種"},{"start":6105.887,"end":6112.689,"text":"從過去大家認為對兒童是保護那現在尤其是那個涉及到塗銷的部分塗銷有時候因為我剛聽到你的講話我是嚇一跳你說認為說如果說還有因為大家在搶小孩幫派在搶小孩好像主義機構也搶小孩學校也去搶小孩其實大家除了幫派搶小孩的部分是我們是要去殲滅它我們是要把小朋友兒童要把它"},{"start":6134.274,"end":6148.21,"text":"給拉回來了所以這個塗銷的目的倒不是說因為你會被搶走所以我就時間我就再弄長一點甚至於這個就不再給你塗銷"},{"start":6149.671,"end":6158.305,"text":"概念要轉變 可以但是我開宗明義講就是說這個要跟社會對話這個大家真的要講清楚好不好好 朝偉不應該話講這麼多 抱歉來 接下來請我們省發會委員詢問"},{"start":6177.598,"end":6178.42,"text":"請王副秘書長委員長"},{"start":6192.018,"end":6206.407,"text":"非常好這個我們今天非常高興我們今天的召委安排了有關這個少年事件處理法部分調溫修正草案的一個今天的開始的詢答"},{"start":6208.168,"end":6222.795,"text":"因為本席也有相對應的案子有提案因此本來就很關心這個案子的進度我想這個案子能夠進入這樣子的尋答階段未來盡快的進入審查"},{"start":6224.741,"end":6240.414,"text":"我想這也是本席所期待的那這次整個修法重點剛才大概前面幾位大家都談了就是大概其實第一個就是有調整一些司法用語來配合這個刑事訴訟法跟法院處置法做了一些調整"},{"start":6242.376,"end":6266.149,"text":"第二個就是最主要是建立多元的處遇機制之間的轉換的機制這個大概是這次修法的一個重點另外一個剛才也在提的就是有關於前案得視為未曾受宣告這樣子來保障少年的復歸這個大概是第三個重點"},{"start":6267.049,"end":6284.769,"text":"另外當然也有一些比較小的就是細緻它的一個細緻化的一些救濟程序 少年的救濟程序大概就這幾個重點這部分本席競表支持而且跟本席提案的意旨大概都是完全幾乎一致所以這部分我本席會支持但是在這個"},{"start":6287.199,"end":6305.651,"text":"我今天要跟司法院這邊來溝通的就是在現行 在修法 修法是一回事但是在現行我們所進行的這些有關少年保護管束的這些相關的這個機制裡面我覺得有一些東西是值得跟司法院這邊來討論首先就是我們從113年2月開始試辦"},{"start":6312.015,"end":6339.288,"text":"這是這個去年2月開始事辦然後去年7月推行到全國的這個有關少年保護管束風險管理事辦計畫這個計畫這樣子從去年的7月開始推行到全國到現在也一年多了這部分我覺得說是不是有一些部分要來跟這個有該討論的地方來跟這個司法院這邊來做溝通首先就是"},{"start":6342.106,"end":6367.206,"text":"這個我們齁在這個這個不管是少年事件處理法齁還是這個少年級家事法院組織法齁裡面都非常明確的規定有關這個少年調查官跟少年保護官齁他之間不同的職責啦齁那我們在這個這個少年保護管束的風險管理事辦計畫裡面我們也規劃我們的重點是規劃選任專任的少年保護官"},{"start":6368.027,"end":6380.832,"text":"也就是說把過去由關戶人一個人扮演的角色一個少年保護官一個少年調查官把這兩個角色要把它分清楚一個是負責廚藝的執行一個是負責調查所以本來他的角色本身的職權其實就有所"},{"start":6391.929,"end":6409.183,"text":"焊隔就是說一個人同一個人擔任這兩個角色這個本來他在角色上面的扮演職責上面就有所焊隔我們在這個事辦計畫裡面我們也特別要把它區分開來這個是一個另外就是這個計畫"},{"start":6411.673,"end":6438.523,"text":"重要的是要做這個個案風險的分級分類評估管理這是這個計畫事辦計畫的一個重點那另外就是高風險個案的管理方式要這個由這個法院來成立這個叫做個案管理小組個案管理小組這樣的做法那另外就是高風險的這個個案的聯繫機制讓這個保護官能夠跟行政單位隨時保持聯繫那這個"},{"start":6442.499,"end":6464.09,"text":"這個部分會造成的大概幾個比較重要的檢討包括我們這個我們審計部在這個中央政府總決算的審核報告裡面也就直接指出我們這個目前的這樣子有關這個保護管束管理的事項計畫裡面它有一個叫做高風險評估指標這個高風險評估指標這個"},{"start":6469.349,"end":6478.373,"text":"有一個高風險少年的評估表他們認為這個審計報告的結論認為說這個評估指標缺乏 因為風險評估指標它只納入若干常見的風險因子它缺乏經過信度跟效度的統計驗證"},{"start":6494.195,"end":6521.934,"text":"那也因為這樣子這個評估表缺乏這樣子的效度 新度統計 統計驗證所以實務上各個法院大概都參考其實他是參考其他的風險評估工具導致這個各個法院他其實在評估的個案風險上面他的評估標準也都不一那這個也會造成整體管理體制缺乏一致性間接造成了處遇 少年處遇的這些差距"},{"start":6522.774,"end":6543.574,"text":"那也造成這個資源投入的差異 地域的差距這樣子的問題 請問我們有沒有做什麼樣的檢討因為這個113年的決算報告提出這樣的檢討內容 不曉得我們副秘長有掌握嗎有掌握 那我們有什麼樣的因應呢"},{"start":6545.025,"end":6571.343,"text":"委員這部分我請廳長來回覆好委員好 謝謝垂詢剛剛的問題我們確實已經在10個月以來第一組成這個我們食物的研修小組那都找我們所有食物專家來研究這個性效度那把這個量表做出來以後我們就召開了就是去已經做了嗎還是正在做做了 都做了"},{"start":6572.043,"end":6590.63,"text":"最近上個月才有我主持我們來進行這個所謂各個大學專家學者在國外就這樣量表的性效度研究的來做專家效度的校準那麼我們將本土化跟國際學者的意見融合"},{"start":6592.17,"end":6614.215,"text":"還是要做成一個統一的工具對 而且馬上要進行實測就是每一個小組都要用這個10成 我了解一下10成你說什麼時候要開始實測10成是在這個今年年底以前要實測完畢實測完畢以後再回來校準一次然後最後再給我們所有的高風險小組去進行"},{"start":6616.556,"end":6620.981,"text":"很好 所以今年年底會針對這個東西進行實測實測 進行實測那實測之後出來的結果我希望說能夠盡快的把這個成果讓本委員會了解好不好是的 謝謝這部分"},{"start":6632.333,"end":6652.282,"text":"我們有因應有進度這非常好這是我想了解的因為這個事實上這樣子的這個高風險少年的這個評估的這個表評估指標事實上確實是有點有些問題所以這個檢討希望說在年底之前完成實測之後我們能夠看到這個實測的這個成果好不好這是有關這個計畫的第一個問題"},{"start":6658.752,"end":6668.482,"text":"第二個問題就是我剛所提到的有關於少年我們這個計畫一個重點把少年保護官跟少年調查官他的職責要把他區分這也是我們計畫的一個重點規劃你們這個計畫內容寫說規劃以選任專責之少年保護官那"},{"start":6682.608,"end":6697.082,"text":"實務上我們現在的人力我們所了解的現在事實上還是都要由同一個人來擔任同一個個案的少年保護官跟少年調查官都還是有同一個人來擔任現在狀況是不是這樣子"},{"start":6699.148,"end":6715.804,"text":"報告委員 我們已經實施這樣的分流計畫現在在新北地方法院我們就已經正式實施分流就是少年保護官專做...我知道他說用一個布幕隔開這邊是保護官 那邊是...沒有..."},{"start":6716.505,"end":6732.544,"text":"我跟委員報告我們新北地院特別在三重地區的檢疫亭設置專案園區的少年保護中心少年保護執行中心那調查官原則是在那個他們的審判大樓來做這個調查力挺以上這個"},{"start":6737.248,"end":6754.725,"text":"據我了解目前實務上大部分少年調查官跟少年保護官都還是有同一人在兼任實務上大概都是同一個人兼任但他的職責角色其實是矛盾的他是一方面要執行保護管束那一方面又要中立調查"},{"start":6755.626,"end":6785.006,"text":"所以他的角色就有矛盾了那這部分很重要的我看你們這個我這手上有這個我們少年調查保護官人力跟執行的業務情形我這邊有110年 111年 112年三個年度的這個調查保護官人數的統計跟他的案件看起來我們的少年保護官的這個人數沒有增加反而減少但是我們的案件"},{"start":6786.127,"end":6793.905,"text":"好 我們的這個每一個人平均執行案件位階案件卻增加了卻增加了你看看我這個上面這個表"},{"start":6796.914,"end":6817.647,"text":"所以現在我們事實上包括這個角色混淆我剛所講的調查官跟保護官的角色混淆以及人力的不足其實很主要是人力不足那這樣你們是不是有什麼樣的改善計畫有沒有提出評估要需要補強的人力那這個在什麼時候能夠提出這個補強的方案"},{"start":6821.624,"end":6838.672,"text":"謝謝委員我報告一下因應這些保護管束的效能本院已經做了三大的一個方向改革第一個就是我們增加人力的部分委員的資料我這邊有比較新的"},{"start":6839.532,"end":6859.068,"text":"我們在113年增加16位少年調保官114就今年我們特別增加到54位所以總增加到70位這兩年113 114已經都到各地院去服務了"},{"start":6859.608,"end":6887.389,"text":"有70位同時呢我們將這個剛剛高風險高風險絕對不可以在遠古的調保官因為他很忙他又要調查又要保護所以我們要選出專來做這種高風險的保護官他叫保護官那他就停止去辦理調查案這是我們第二改革只是要分流嘛對 這個叫部分逐步分流這個是就篩選出來的高風險"},{"start":6888.089,"end":6906.376,"text":"好 現在時間關係你是不是能夠把我們這樣子的相關的分工還有人力改善的計畫跟成果交一個書面報告給我們可以 那最後我跟委員補充一下我們委外人力的社工師 心理師 佐理研我們總共用這樣PIN82來密集"},{"start":6908.317,"end":6933.718,"text":"好 這個整個在書面報告跟我報告因為我最後再一點點時間齁 這個要請問副秘書長這個我上一次會議也提過啦齁我們有關刑事案件的妥適良刑法齁這個之前有送進立法院來但是因為屆期不連續現在就沒有再送了那這個我看這個會議也就沒有了齁所以有關刑事案件妥適良刑法那這個那時候我有我在我在這個"},{"start":6935.939,"end":6956.72,"text":"六月的時候有提說希望你們半年的時間能夠提出報告半年還沒到但是我現在在今天的主題我要講的是說就算我們現在刑事案件妥適量刑法這是司法國事會議的共識這部分就算沒有通過在沒有通過之前事實上有關少年的量刑跟這個"},{"start":6958.041,"end":6984.576,"text":"一般成年人的量刑他的整個考慮的重點機制是完全不同的在這個刑事案件的妥適量刑法還沒有這個會席也沒有看到你們在送來但在他還沒有立法之前我們有關少年的量刑我們用少年量刑指引的部分因為畢竟少年量刑他的參考他考量的不是責任能力而是這個"},{"start":6985.937,"end":7011.428,"text":"為了保障這個少年的健全自我發展才是他的重點是不是能夠請我們司法院在兩個月內提出以少年健全自我成長核心之少年良心指引的具體規劃你們有具體規劃我希望你們能夠送來有關少年良心指引謝謝委員這個部分司法院已經有在進行那我們可以兩個月之內提出這個報告沒有問題好 謝謝"},{"start":7015.438,"end":7021.284,"text":"好 謝謝審發會委員接下來請王紅薇委員詢答好 謝謝主席我請我們的法務部徐次長徐次長"},{"start":7036.977,"end":7056.104,"text":"委員長市長早今天我們當然是做我們的邵氏法的一個審查詢答但是最近讓國人非常憤慨的而且也覺得不可思議的就是我們的詐騙其實已經登上國際整個是國際的詐騙集團太子集團之囂張事實上在我們司法法治委員會我4月份"},{"start":7066.507,"end":7079.076,"text":"就引用了聯合國的報告來示警台灣是詐騙洗錢中心當時聯合國就直接點名台灣了那當時呢我是質詢我們的部長"},{"start":7081.818,"end":7106.59,"text":"結果部長對這個報告渾然不知一問三 三不知所以我就覺得非常非常離譜那你以為這是最離譜的嗎沒有 還有更離譜的事情就是事後竟然我們的調查局長在立法院表示陳柏麗在立法院表示說相關報告內容立場偏頗對內容存疑"},{"start":7110.492,"end":7135.967,"text":"還質疑人家聯合國的報告那麼從4月開始到現在經過了半年以上然後果然台灣真的是國際詐騙的洗錢中心然後這個太子集團呢那麼在台灣洗錢他用什麼方式洗錢第一個他買豪宅對不對市長知道他怎麼洗錢嗎"},{"start":7137.418,"end":7140.984,"text":"我知道他是用工合公司的名義去購買這些不動產來不動產還有呢"},{"start":7157.868,"end":7167.433,"text":"我覺得這應該是法務部身為打詐的最主要的主管機關之一對這件事情不可能置身於世 世外"},{"start":7169.35,"end":7197.018,"text":"這個太子集團它用空殼公司而且是8家空殼公司在台灣去買11戶的和平大院這就是周杰倫住的地方另外買了29部的豪車用這樣的方式來做洗錢這跟我們過去比如打炸洗錢譬如說我們擔心它用虛擬貨幣不大一樣它直接是買豪宅豪車來做洗錢"},{"start":7198.118,"end":7213.573,"text":"而且他早在2017年就來台灣布局了那自己也來台灣就有10次之多所以我要講的4月份聯合國的有關於詐騙的報告說台灣成為詐騙洗錢中心"},{"start":7218.717,"end":7232.727,"text":"並不是空穴來風但是呢 包含我們法務部調查局都把這個報告不當回事啊不當回事 部長不知道當時我在詢問的時候已經這個報告出來一陣子了部長不曉得"},{"start":7233.988,"end":7255.607,"text":"然後調查局長竟然說對人家的報告存疑好 那現在市長我想請問一下那麼根據媒體今天的報導說我們一直到前天我們的高檢署才召開我們整個的跨單位跨部會的會議"},{"start":7257.628,"end":7279.803,"text":"來特別針對太子集團的洗錢案在台灣的洗錢案來做怎麼樣的防度跟追究檢討次長你個人身為次長你會覺得我們是不是不是慢半拍我們是慢一整個大拍是不是太慢了"},{"start":7281.655,"end":7301.984,"text":"我想不管時間點在哪裡我們發現有一些我們沒有發現的犯罪我們當然要檢討而且這個是跨部會有很多很多的地方是需要我們努力所以禮拜一所召集的這個會議的確是我們追緝防止詐騙的一個我們查緝的平台"},{"start":7303.365,"end":7320.337,"text":"高檢署才會召集做這樣的一個緊急會議那在會議中也做成了五項的結論這些結論都有助於以後我們在國際的洗錢跟詐騙的金流的流竄是有一定的嚇阻作用我想"},{"start":7320.717,"end":7345.599,"text":"我們這個結論請問一下我們有沒有做檢討剛才我們講的幾個第一個 空殼公司用空殼公司在短短時間裡面買了這麼多戶的豪宅或者去買豪車這個打擊房市洗錢我們不是從今天才開始嘛 對不對我們不會是從今天才開始那這個部分"},{"start":7346.46,"end":7373.17,"text":"有沒有去追究責任當然你們現在看起來有檢察官說說這個頭號戰犯就是經濟部頭號戰犯就是經濟部經濟部針對這些公司商業登記毫無管制然後登記這些根本是空殼公司然後也不知道他做什麼業務就是去買豪宅 去買豪車所以市長檢察官的質疑有沒有道理"},{"start":7374.335,"end":7395.449,"text":"包委員我們還是期待就是說能夠強化公司登記的審查的密度而且不是只有登記而已他應該跟稅務機關要連結要加強稅務機關的監理還有金融機構的驗證跟異常交易的通報然後強化法人實質受益人的透明度所以你這樣一講下來不是只有經濟部"},{"start":7399.852,"end":7421.813,"text":"經濟部 財政部 國稅局 金管會你這樣一講下來對不對那一天召集的會議這些主管機關的人代表都有在場他們都承認自己有輸肉會議是共識不是承認我想委員得知道那我們就是要把這些漏洞能夠把它抓出來我們在監理"},{"start":7422.613,"end":7451.493,"text":"好 那次長我請問一下為了這樣子要洗脫我們這樣子的是一個詐騙亡國洗錢亡國的這樣子的汙名我們會不會做全面性的對 讓經濟部做全面性的這種空殼公司比如說他投資不管他投資未上市股票 菜券豪車 豪宅等等做一些全面性的清查需不需要"},{"start":7452.473,"end":7462.382,"text":"這個不是我們法務部可以做這樣的一個宣示我當然知道 你們會不會建議我們一定會做這樣的建議會做這樣的建議 對所以應該做一個清查對於台灣這些空殼公司當然不是所有空殼公司大概那個什麼他們要跑斷腿就是你要設定一個他購買的一定金額以上的資產"},{"start":7479.197,"end":7502.518,"text":"比如说你设定他这个空额公司但是呢他却买了上亿元以上的这个不管是动产或者不动产然后就做全面性的清查应该是要设定一定的条件然后呢要勾基我刚才已经特别有提到就是勾基税务单位金融机构对不过这种这种他可能也不贷款啊"},{"start":7504.279,"end":7519.285,"text":"他不但他有交易不管他用什麼方式他就算是虛擬貨幣他也是跟金融機構所以你們會就這樣的建議那多少金額以上呢我這個一定要尊重主管機關的所以一定要做一次全面的大清查"},{"start":7520.005,"end":7525.549,"text":"我只是建議我們不能說在這裡我了解但是現在已經出現這樣的問題了所以因為我們講說我們有個打詐國家隊但是打詐國家隊到底誰負責呢沒有人知道到時候每次出事以前那個打詐檢察官就很生氣那時候頭號戰犯就是金管會那時候就是主要是想講金管會因為金管會還沒有還有什麼速發部等等的對不對"},{"start":7549.765,"end":7569.725,"text":"那我是觉得啦那你们也要提出建议啊因为你们才是主管机关啊也因为大院的支持所以我们打诈释法就很顺利的通过那这个就已经让我们跨部会现在的合作是很密切的经济部说经济部头号失职不过看起来次长说也不止经济部啦那另外内政部有没有失职"},{"start":7571.648,"end":7593.925,"text":"因為內政部這個層次他可以來好幾次他用不同的護照來那麼多次然後我們也渾然不覺我們整個團隊都要檢討但是談不上有法務部來說誰失職但是有努力的空間沒有 看起來檢調很生氣覺得自己打仗打到最後就一堆一堆的漏洞出來"},{"start":7594.884,"end":7599.185,"text":"是不是 我們要努力我們也會在偵查的實務上發現的問題會提供給行政機關作為他們一個監管的一個參考好 這邊我就是具體建議你們必須要做一個大清查因為當聯合國指名台灣的時候我們要有一些回應然後你知道像南韓 南韓媒體現在或者是他們的網友都開始在那邊笑台灣笑台灣說是詐騙之島"},{"start":7623.152,"end":7644.143,"text":"然後我們的行政院還發文我們行政院還有新聞稿說這個聲表遺憾因為這個的發文就說台灣一年以語音加簡訊詐騙的金額用人均計算是南韓的3倍日本的20倍這是"},{"start":7646.824,"end":7663.356,"text":"南韓媒體的報導然後呢 我們行政院說沒有 這個是斷章取義結果呢 有去讓人家更正嗎也沒有讓人家去更正啊當然我知道這不是你的職責但是這很丟臉啦我們已經丟臉丟到國際上去了"},{"start":7667.458,"end":7692.432,"text":"韓國的報導朝鮮日報是韓國的大報吧朝鮮日報說我們詐騙損失的金額是南韓的3倍 日本的20倍行政院只會大內宣自己發一個新聞稿說沒有 這個數據不正確我也沒有看到他要求朝鮮日報更正朝鮮日報的報導照樣繼續在網站上人家也沒有把它下架也沒有撤下來"},{"start":7693.653,"end":7715.105,"text":"行政院這種的回應根本是自嗨而已你也不敢去叫人家朝鮮日報你把這個文章下架 不對我們台灣沒有那麼離譜所以我覺得最近這一連串的事件讓國人對於我們打詐信心全失"},{"start":7716.346,"end":7731.611,"text":"所以我也很肯定剛才市長願意就是就很務實的部分該檢討就要去檢討然後我們該去防堵就去防堵好不好因為我覺得我們不要我們一定要洗脫台灣這種詐騙之島詐騙天堂的這種惡名好不好是好 謝謝好 謝謝王宏威委員的詢答 無告遵習接下來請羅志強委員"},{"start":7752.116,"end":7779.599,"text":"主席有請徐次長還有王副秘書長請徐次長還有王副秘委員好委員早兩位好我在這邊要表達對民進黨崇高的敬意真的是非常了不起短短九年就把台灣從科技島變成詐騙島我道歉不是詐騙島是詐騙帝國"},{"start":7782.023,"end":7796.545,"text":"為什麼連太子都來了太子都來了詐騙太子把詐騙皇宮設在哪裡請問市長你知道設在哪裡嗎富麗堂皇詐騙皇宮設在台灣的門面啊你知道吧哪裡"},{"start":7798.922,"end":7825.02,"text":"報告委員 我聽不懂他的皇宮是說他是有租的辦公室你聽不懂啊 院長都聽不懂聽得懂 你聽不懂設在101大樓啦辦公室啦辦公室啦原來是什麼 義式店啦不是皇宮是義式店啦皇宮是那個多少多少間豪宅多少間豪宅11啊對啊 11座皇宮真開心啊"},{"start":7826.465,"end":7837.271,"text":"你知道這個詐騙太子在台灣能夠橫行無阻的詐騙皇帝是誰背後靠山是誰有個太子總有個皇帝當他靠山是誰你知道嗎你知道是誰嗎我告訴你就是無能待舵的行政團隊養出這樣一個詐騙太子吃香喝辣 橫行無阻"},{"start":7851.667,"end":7878.108,"text":"你不要講不只是這一個 來我要問齁這個太子集團2016年6月就來台北然後在101成立了天緒國際公司表面上是開發博弈系統實際上是開始進行相關的洗錢操作嘛對不對是啊對啊慶祝民進黨政黨輪替"},{"start":7881.868,"end":7907.423,"text":"2016年6月真是眼光獨到眼光獨到知道今天詐騙皇帝可以當靠山了換人執政了知道有一個怠惰無能的政府上來之後趕快來台灣打造一個詐騙天堂那我再問啊你知道這太子集團啊在柬埔寨有十個園區詐騙園區"},{"start":7910.302,"end":7924.547,"text":"很多人被拐賣過去用殺豬盤的方式詐騙騙到最後現在美國司法部查扣他名下的比特幣資產高達150億美元將近4500億以上的台幣這麼大的一個犯罪集團詐騙組織來台發展九年啦美方的調查"},{"start":7939.252,"end":7948.137,"text":"甚至來台不下十次我想請問 市長我們的政府的法務單位減掉對此都一無所惜 毫無警覺嗎"},{"start":7959.195,"end":7982.753,"text":"因為他當時進來是以商務的目的進來的那是移民署依法合法准許的路徑所以是移民署的錯不是移民署的錯就是說這個部分的話是合法的市長你講這話的意義到底在哪裡point在哪裡哪一個詐騙集團進來的時候他就跟我講我是詐騙集團會嗎不會吧有哪一個詐騙集團進來跟你講他是詐騙集團"},{"start":7985.529,"end":7999.479,"text":"九年你們到最後 劉世芳部長的名言是配合哪一個國家調查的配合美國調查的如果美國今天沒有調查我們就讓他繼續壯大了11個詐騙皇宮不夠 搞個20個養心殿設在101 是這個意思嗎"},{"start":8008.2,"end":8036.353,"text":"包委員 如果犯罪行為是發生在境外的話的確我們在得到請示是比較困難犯罪行為發生在境外洗錢債發生在哪裡啊 請問啊發生在台灣啦這麼大的資金的流轉請問 我不講保護部而已啊檢調 金管會還有包括我們所有的講打造 講國家對 講多少年啦"},{"start":8037.495,"end":8062.349,"text":"講多少年了你光這件事情你叫國人怎麼對我們政府打仗有信心呢來我想請問我們到底什麼時候開始掌握太子集團在台灣的非法活動今年10月美方採取司法行動我們到底什麼時候掌握的這個案子是在今年10月15號北檢分案真好"},{"start":8063.464,"end":8085.243,"text":"今年10月15號北檢分案剛好什麼慶祝美國來調查就完完全全印證了劉四方講的嘛前面要嘛無能要嘛怠惰要嘛裝死網友還說合理懷疑九年可以搞得在台灣搞得這麼盛盛大大是不是中天其實有人謀不章"},{"start":8087.153,"end":8111.927,"text":"這次為什麼說我們會趕快召開會議到底哪一個環節是我們疏漏的我告訴你其實也不用召開會議為什麼美國沒有來調查連那會議都不用召開我在想請教你知道現在我們看到今天台灣的詐騙嚴重到什麼程度太子集團這種荒腔走板的事情九年無知無覺"},{"start":8113.086,"end":8134.176,"text":"到美國司法部動了以後10月15號才開始分案來來來 我想問一下很好啊 辦了對不對來幾乎所有人都交保吧壓了4位剩下那些交保裡面有的保金3萬 15萬都不到100萬"},{"start":8138.052,"end":8154.196,"text":"然後這些交保裡面有一個特助對不對關鍵人士網路上在講在法庭感覺非常輕鬆感覺非常輕鬆好像回到溫暖的家的感覺一樣15萬交保我真的不太清楚"},{"start":8161.329,"end":8188.379,"text":"四千多億四千五百億四千六百億的全球詐騙金額光台灣今天涉案的一些相關金額查扣的一些資產就四十五億了結果十五萬CEO左右手就可以交保那我不知道你們到底辦案的決心在哪裡啊那我舉個例子你知道黃嶼景如國民黨的主委黃嶼景如多少錢交保嗎知道嗎"},{"start":8189.571,"end":8216.099,"text":"那個案件跟案件涉案的罪名以及他的身份當然不一樣一個偽造文書交保一千萬另外一個什麼詐騙詐到人家全球多少人家破人亡四五萬交保當然不一樣後詐騙後代詐騙我還沒講柯文哲七七萬交保"},{"start":8218.618,"end":8239.054,"text":"我告訴次長 我也告訴副秘書長全國人民都在看 都在看台灣詐騙嚴不嚴重 你告訴我 嚴不嚴重嚴不嚴重 次長 本心自問比起民進黨上台之前嚴不嚴重最近是有比較嚴重"},{"start":8240.465,"end":8258.961,"text":"不是最近 市長你真是客氣我是講說我在當檢察官的時候跟現在比起來當然比較清楚但是現在目前案件是減少的你詐騙金額足足一直在飆升你案件你跟我講減少我到現在為止你們還在那邊凹那個詐騙儀表板你要怎麼去定義"},{"start":8264.451,"end":8292.465,"text":"我要你們去定義光一個太子集團全球就搞了4500億150億美金光一個太子集團詐騙太子在台灣全球在搞這是光宗耀祖啊台灣真是光芒萬丈啊你到現在詐騙國家隊到底花了多少資源去支持詐騙國家隊你們到底交出什麼成績單然後我再問喔"},{"start":8293.888,"end":8315.05,"text":"你知道詐騙多嚴重到什麼程度啊我永遠信心念念我在這個質詢台上質詢很多次我想請問一下次長你知道有史以來台灣被綁架的人數被關押的人數被拘禁的人數因為詐騙集團最多的一次是發生在哪一年"},{"start":8318.541,"end":8346.721,"text":"不知道 我告訴你啦很有名啦2022年的台版柬埔寨啦但是61個受害者被關在三坪大的房間是幾個人被虐待死亡三人三個啊 你的數字還錯的三個是抓到的時候三個今年八月多發現了一個四個"},{"start":8348.717,"end":8377.73,"text":"今年八月不小心多發現了一個所以答案是不是四個我都不知道你恐怕也不知道因為可能還有不知道的受害者被埋在哪裡都不知道慘絕人寰令人髮指請問發生在誰執政的時候我想這個跟執政是誰執政應該沒有關係當然有關係詐騙越來越嚴重難道跟今天執政者的無能沒關係"},{"start":8379.639,"end":8407.791,"text":"再來我要跟你講這我還是回到一件事情到這種程度關61個人不罰所得4億元虐殺4個人結果沒有判死刑耶也是民進黨另外一個偉大的傑作啊民進黨實施廢死判決之後真的很難判死刑啊大法官會議實施廢死判決之後連這種案件都判不了死刑啊"},{"start":8409.897,"end":8438.558,"text":"61個人被關4個人被虐殺不法所得4億元沒事不會判死刑不用擔心我講的是一個系統性的問題為什麼今天詐騙集團在台灣如此猖狂因為進到法院15萬交保我可以笑得很開心啊回到家的感覺真溫暖啊因為可以足足9年美國司法部不動我們台灣的民進黨就不動"},{"start":8440.165,"end":8464.525,"text":"我直接跟你講啊我真的非常嚴重的質疑除了怠惰無能以外有沒有其他的因素啊有沒有其他的因素啊今天還只講一個太子集團詐騙太子多少嚴重的詐騙案件一個一個發生我們到底今天辦了誰抓了誰到底打擊了什麼詐騙我拜託次長你們回去好好想一想 謝謝"},{"start":8468.47,"end":8480.079,"text":"謝謝羅志強委員的詢答這個是一個好問題剛好施亞委員剛好走進來了我記得我從當台北市委員的時候就開始罵我們當初的詐騙"},{"start":8481.895,"end":8506.95,"text":"當初台北市是最大20年過去了那其實可以看得出來是這20年來詐騙在國內是一直飆升一直在飆升但是倒不是說都這個詐騙就好像是他們都被抓到以後都沒事 倒也不是我們立法院我們各位委員也都修法了我們也都確實是加重了那這個詐騙可不可惡話已透了"},{"start":8508.041,"end":8516.004,"text":"就是我們要保持一點文明的形象而已啊不然對這一些人這真的是該殺無色啊真的是該殺無色那這你說該怎麼辦呢這該怎麼辦呢這個整個金額一直這樣子在做飆升那我們給"},{"start":8523.926,"end":8549.971,"text":"行政部門的武器就是這樣子而已那給了他們的武器 你說他們不作為嗎倒也未必 倒也未必所以還是要及時廣義啦這個確實是整個現象沒有去做一個壓制去做一個遏止的話這個不分黨派大家對這件事情其實都是非常憤慨的我相信行政部門看到這樣的一個狀況的話你們一定會覺得說自己不及格啦好不好 我們接下來就請翁小玲委員做詢問"},{"start":8557.298,"end":8585.703,"text":"好 非常謝謝這個剛剛莊昭偉的一席話這個是非常這個睿智而且很中肯的一句話一段話那麼確實我們現在詐騙的問題這個不僅僅只是行政部門然後立法部門我們這邊也都善盡職責然後提高相關的這個刑度但是可能另外一個部分還有司法所以我接下來我就要請司法院的王富密"},{"start":8587.156,"end":8613.308,"text":"請王復命那麼剛剛不同的委員可能從不同的角度來看為什麼我們現在詐騙的問題這麼猖獗這麼多年來沒有改善那本席今天呢主要就是從司法法院的角度來看這個詐騙的問題那麼我們知道其實詐騙案件層出不窮不管是從假投資假檢警然後甚至到最近的"},{"start":8614.168,"end":8631.133,"text":"化國的這個詐騙集團都已經嚴重侵蝕民眾的財產安全和政府的公信力行政部門雖然成立了打詐國家隊但是看起來功效不彰那麼我想這個部分的話其實還有一個問題就是說大家普遍看到我們現在的法院判決 輕判"},{"start":8633.313,"end":8660.688,"text":"侵犯其實也可能會成為整體打詐機制的最大破口那麼根據審計部在今年所公佈的113年中央政府總預算的決算審核報告裡面就指出政府為了打擊組織及科技詐騙增修了刑法第339條之4的加重詐欺罪可以科處一年到七年的有期徒刑可是"},{"start":8661.388,"end":8688.169,"text":"看看這6年來從108年到113年度各級法院對於加重詐欺罪科處3年以上的徒刑根本不到1%如果說有處罰這個科處5年以上的徒刑也不過才佔這個0.01%這個比例是非常非常低那麼如果說我們再看"},{"start":8689.369,"end":8704.745,"text":"整個的平均來講大概都是維持大概差不多就是一年到六年之間大概平均大概是1.6年對不起1年半左右如果說要刻儲平均刑度大概就是1年半左右"},{"start":8705.933,"end":8734.236,"text":"那麼就這樣的一個狀況我想很多的民眾是不滿的為什麼我們的詐騙案件法院判得這麼輕就算是立法者把刑度提高但是法官還是這個輕輕的縱判所以像這樣子的一個情況我想請教王副秘書長就是說你們法院的法官是怎麼看待詐騙案件"},{"start":8736.368,"end":8737.794,"text":"為什麼就整體的統計數據來講會如此輕判"},{"start":8742,"end":8764.065,"text":"跟委員報告其實那個法院就那個詐欺這部分的那個量刑這幾年就是有呈現那個加重就是有判更重的那個趨勢那我們從統計數字來看的話3394這個加重詐欺也就大部分是在這個詐欺集團的就是判處那個兩年以上的這個比例已經從108年的1.68%到113年的7.08%了"},{"start":8770.387,"end":8797.466,"text":"那修法之後的那個詐欺詐欺危害防治條例43條跟44條呢現在就是我們統計到現在就是有那個判決的141罪呢超過兩年的有達到21%就是目前就是我們醫師宣達的結果現在是有成那個就是加重那個取向是這樣我們有看到這個我們就本期有去查你們自己有一個"},{"start":8798.927,"end":8817.838,"text":"這個詐欺案件的良心因子的一個查詢系統我們去查詢了114年的這個查詢系統這是你們自己的數字喔你們看你們在這個14年大概就是被判的有期徒刑一年的大概171件然後平均刑度在2387件裡面平均刑度也才一年"},{"start":8822.481,"end":8849.23,"text":"一年5.7個月就等於說只有一年半平均刑度一年半真正判到最高六年以上的也只有兩件所以呢基本上就是你們在有不管我們現在把刑度提高可是你們事實上在整個的司法院的法官的這個作業系統裡面而且在你們自己也有頒布了這個刑法339條之四家中詐欺案件良心參考事項"},{"start":8850.35,"end":8869.032,"text":"那麼看起來好像這個事項這個算是一個行政命令對於你們自己的法官是沒有任何拘束力的嗎沒有辦法就去約束現在法官的良心還是說法官基本上不會參考你們現在所頒布的這個參考事項的準則來去做良心"},{"start":8871.383,"end":8878.648,"text":"委員講得沒有錯 委員有注意到司法院有訂了一個加重詐欺的量刑參考事項我們也廣為宣達 發給法官請他們宣達在法官學院也開了各種的研習"},{"start":8890.535,"end":8908.736,"text":"那不管是在一般刑法的或者說那個詐欺這個部分或者說量刑的就是的課程裡面也都有去就是廣為去宣達跟那個法官們溝通這一個部分他就是要量刑考慮事項是還有另外一個部分因為現在我們法律規定是說可以"},{"start":8909.276,"end":8922.934,"text":"對於這個家中詐欺案件是可以有期徒刑病科得病科罰金你們支持未來有期徒刑可以因病科罰金就是不只是判刑還要判罰金這樣的話會不會更能夠有效的遏止詐欺犯你會支持這樣子的一個修法嗎"},{"start":8928.854,"end":8952.41,"text":"這個實體法部分因為主責機關是法務部所以我們尊重他們的權責我想這個部分我本期之後也會來再研議看看是不是要再進行相關的修法總之就是說其實這個詐騙的這個詐欺的案子基本上良心過低這個基本上是從統計數據上面來看這就是個不真的事實那麼如何能夠強化法官對於這樣子的詐欺案件裡面的"},{"start":8958.714,"end":8985.612,"text":"他可能他的违法性还对被害人所造成的伤害让他们更能够体会那么也许在良心的部分的话就会有一个更能够符合我们社会期待的一个判刑那么所以在现在的这个状况就是你们现在的整个刑事法律的法定刑度过低或者是法官良心过低的问题那么本席认为说司法院其实应该要再去通盘"},{"start":8987.393,"end":9011.368,"text":"檢討是不是有出現法官良心過低的問題當然不僅是在詐欺案件在一些案件裡面可能也都呈現有良心過低的問題因為你們先前司法院其實也頒布了很多各種不同的良心參考表刑事案件的良心以及定執行的參考要點可是到底有沒有實際的效果還是都是只是參考而已"},{"start":9012.088,"end":9018.744,"text":"就是你們實際上是怎麼樣是向法官們去做宣達然後告訴他們或是你們有召開過很多類似的座談會嗎"},{"start":9020.598,"end":9043.881,"text":"這一部分都有的但是要跟委員報告就是說因為最後量刑的時候他依刑法57條他最後那個設計他最後還是要法官做裁量所以說這一些因子他事實上都是整個綜合的就是他沒有辦法去定一個就是一個相對應的什麼情況他一定要多少因為每個個案他的情況"},{"start":9045.462,"end":9064.243,"text":"太不同了所以也沒有辦法就是去定一個實質的一個就是所謂那個有拘束的是我想因為王鳳鳴您本身也是刑庭法官出身那麼我想就是整個的刑事的判決基本上還是要符合國民的法律情感那在這個部分的話怎麼樣能夠加強跟"},{"start":9065.744,"end":9088.911,"text":"性情的法官然後做更多的溝通社會的溝通讓他們能夠理解國民的期待還有跟立法這邊的當時的一些修法的想法還有另外一個部分就是司法院其實在幾年前曾經有提出一份草案叫做刑事案件妥適良刑法的草案後來這個案子為什麼司法院沒有再繼續推動下去"},{"start":9090.894,"end":9119.375,"text":"是你們認為說你們對於這個妥適良行是沒有辦法做出來嗎報告委員那刑事妥適良行法因為上次之前送的時候因為借期不連續的關係所以目前我們就還在那個司法院這邊在做內部評估當中因為這涉及到我們良行的模式到底是要採收所謂的蘇格蘭或是美國這種祭典式的方式那拘束力的強弱這些那這部分我們還在內部在討論這樣子"},{"start":9120.376,"end":9140.172,"text":"是因為本心也認為說這樣子的法案還是值得拿出來再來討論畢竟如果說我們能夠制定一個比較客觀合理而且這個大家都能接受的一個良心標準的話那麼未來也可以相當程度的拘束一些太自由派的法官那不可否認在我們法律人裡面的確是有一些"},{"start":9142.314,"end":9167.916,"text":"這個法官可能他就是更重視的是人身的自由啊等等然後對於很多的案子他會侵犯那但是這個這樣子的一個狀況其實很打擊減緊掉的士氣而且也違背國民的法律情感那所以本席是建議了就是你們行事案件妥適良刑法草案可以再拿出來好不好就是積極的可以再提出來然後你們的"},{"start":9169.215,"end":9189.084,"text":"這個相關的草案 然後可以作為你們下個會期的司法院的立法計畫好 謝謝委員的提示好 OK 那以上 謝謝好 謝謝翁曉琳委員 接下來請吳思堯委員詢答吳思堯委員詢答結束今天還沒休息嗎?沒休息嗎?我給你們換了之後 待會要拿我主席"},{"start":9197.711,"end":9207.397,"text":"我們就不用問了 翁委員你不可以走我先到隔壁請吳斯亞委員做詢答沒有啦 做做做好 謝謝辛苦的熊讚召委請王富密 也請我們的次長徐次請王富密還有徐次長"},{"start":9227.503,"end":9242.73,"text":"委員好進入我今天邵氏法修法的主題之前我認為台灣的司法部門的獨立我們的司法部門也應當表態中國的跨境鎮壓已經嚴重打擊了我國的司法獨立下一頁"},{"start":9243.74,"end":9264.451,"text":"所以說當中華民國立法院的沈博洋委員面對中國這種長臂管轄他傷害的是台灣的法治傷害的更是台灣的國會尊嚴所以民進黨希望透過朝野不分黨派一起來聲明反制我們會持續努力"},{"start":9265.111,"end":9292.363,"text":"非常遺憾民進黨團要求國會共同聲明來力挺我們的國會議員的這件事情呢到目前為止在野黨兩黨選擇噤聲面對中國他們似乎就選擇了姑息昨天賴清德總統也清楚的對外來宣示要捍衛保護每一個國人的權利跟安全畢竟今天沈伯陽明天任何人"},{"start":9293.203,"end":9319.398,"text":"立法院的是民進黨團持續來努力我們不會放棄在國會表達嚴正立場的這一份朝野應當有一個共同聲明民進黨會持續努力但是呢在我們所有的行政部門外交部陸委會警政署乃至於國安會針對這件事情中國的長臂管轄大打法律戰"},{"start":9320.902,"end":9348.596,"text":"各相關部門都發生了跟司法院沒有關係嗎跟法務部沒有關係嗎台灣的司法權限被對岸如此的踐踏欺凌要長臂管轄危及我國的國人我認為我們的司法機關不能夠沒有表態 沒有說明所以我今天就這個機會短短的時間"},{"start":9350.69,"end":9361.143,"text":"請兩位我們重要的司法機關今天備詢的代表簡要來表達我們的立場好嗎下一頁是誰先徐次"},{"start":9364.233,"end":9387.113,"text":"各位報告中國片面宣稱對我國的法律定位跟單方頒布法規對我國人發布通緝立案調查等作為對我國民眾不伸任何拘束力所以我們嚴正表達國人不用怕中國管不到台灣他的治權不及於台灣捍衛我們的司法獨立好 來 請"},{"start":9388.988,"end":9413.149,"text":"台灣是一個獨立治權的地方我們司法權也是獨立的所以不容別人對我們的任何國人還有立法委員甚至他是以捏造犯罪的方式他可能先發布了這種棄拿立案接著可能是缺席懲判接著也會是全球的通緝"},{"start":9414.93,"end":9435.147,"text":"台灣我們是民主法治國家我們never對任何一國的國會議員基於沒有犯罪的事實捏造他的罪名而且是這種政治思想罪名然後對任何他國的國人施以這種作為吧我們不會never never never吧"},{"start":9436.568,"end":9458.759,"text":"所以說我今天我一直蠻遺憾的我一直在等法務部跟司法院應當嚴正的主動對外來捍衛我國的司法獨立但我藉由短短的時間中國是全球的首惡在世界各國他們目前160起跨境鎮壓的事件中國是之惡之首22%是由中國發動的下一頁"},{"start":9462.02,"end":9480.823,"text":"所以對於台灣的長臂管轄不管是對於我們的軍方人員新戰大隊人員片面的來懸賞片面的來立案調查完全都不及於台灣我們不用怕下一頁吳斯堯本人也被他列為是台獨打手"},{"start":9481.909,"end":9491.871,"text":"那當然沈博洋是讓這一次全台灣大家群情激憤我們共同要捍衛司法獨立的主要的一個對象好 最後"},{"start":9493.117,"end":9512.979,"text":"我希望未来在类似的事件中国罗织罪名复合式的压迫法律战绝对是非常重要的一环只要干预到我们的司法独立我国的法治权限我再一次提醒也希望"},{"start":9513.96,"end":9536.88,"text":"司法院也好法務部也好都應當主動積極的表明立場這是我們不可退讓的主權我們不可退讓的司法獨立我再次提醒好嗎因為今天用了我五分鐘的時間好下一頁今天少事法的修法修法之後and land我認為要系統性對症下藥下一頁"},{"start":9538.632,"end":9565.246,"text":"我当然肯定我们落实国际的儿童人权公约在55条55-2 56条确保符合少年最佳的利益我们采取多样化的处置我支持好下一页同样的对于加盐少年前案记录的图销机制我目前也倾向可以支持你们的提案但是我要问这个定三年的这个期限"},{"start":9566.546,"end":9573.633,"text":"會不會違反了國際的權力公約的疑慮可不可能你們周延考量過了嗎"},{"start":9575.849,"end":9600.641,"text":"誰可以回答我請廳長來回覆好 是委員好 是有關於三年這樣的定案就是是在當時形成這個政策前做了非常多的實務的蒐集以及再換的一些分析最後就是學者的建議還有參佐國際的一些立法"},{"start":9601.241,"end":9627.592,"text":"我完全理解基於實務的研析然後也有參採國際的做法這是重點不要為了這個修法我們固然要求取社會安全跟少年需求保護的平衡但是也不要走回頭路我們也不應當為了修法不小心去觸犯了國際的權利公約的底線OK我提醒你們我相信你們也做好研議下一頁"},{"start":9629.213,"end":9653.985,"text":"但是法治這幾年來更健全了政策更精進了可是少年的事件是不減反增這是我前陣子去聆聽一個演講是更生少年關懷協會他們做的一個數字當然每一個數字在我看來都驚心動魄簡言之從少年的嫌疑犯還有少年犯罪的人口率甚至再犯率"},{"start":9654.645,"end":9683.546,"text":"都是讓人非常驚駭的數字因為它是不減反增的所以我們需要系統性的去診斷跟下手下業而最新的少年的犯罪類型淪為詐騙集團的最佳利用工具六成是車手就當然在這一類的犯罪類型裡頭我們要擴大保護少年不容易被騙這個我們要做下業但是我今天要提出來的"},{"start":9684.466,"end":9699.661,"text":"系統性我有follow到行政院事實上提出了這一個三級預防全面性的預防兒童及青少年的犯罪方案四年76億這個方案大家都involved對不對大家一起催生"},{"start":9700.666,"end":9722.98,"text":"那這個問題大哉問了我們希望逐年減少少年處罰的人數年減1%如果以剛剛我提供的數字其實我們的成長率是高的能做到嗎四年76億在三級預防的機制來 徐次長你是主管部會之一"},{"start":9729.262,"end":9747.734,"text":"我想我們從宣導面防制面跟查記面都要努力真的要努力目標是不容易但是大家要努力努力做到所以我們自己知道年減1%的少年處罰人數是不容易的是不容易但是我們要努力"},{"start":9748.154,"end":9767.049,"text":"好 努力做到我會每一年如果我在司法法治委員會我每年會追蹤這個數字這是系統性我非常支持一定要系統性的去看待這個問題但是系統性有了四年76億但是我今天替你們點出一些個別執行的BIOS下一頁"},{"start":9767.93,"end":9782.447,"text":"首先 邵府會絕對是一個非常重要的我們要行政輔導先行 司法處遇在後但是當我發現2023年到2024年各地方政府邵府會的修建輔導數是4022件"},{"start":9785.831,"end":9812.462,"text":"但是呢明明要輔導先行可是呢2024年我統計出來的司法處遇進到少年法庭去受理的案件卻是5.76倍而這個當中會不會有漏接的數字也就是說我相信很多是連輔導都沒有touch到這群人直接就是少年法庭去審理了這樣一個狀況怎麼強化"},{"start":9817.727,"end":9840.947,"text":"來那個向委員報告之所以會呈現這樣的數字是因為進到那個少年那個法院的他除了就是說是這個曝險的之外他很多是那個觸犯刑事法律所以他不經過先行就是直接進到那我問一下那如果有一些非這類的案件他應當先輔導再來送司法處遇而這個漏接率高嗎我應該這樣問"},{"start":9844.761,"end":9862.175,"text":"這部分目前的設計是不會的 普選先行輔導有兩類 第一類就是又觸法就會送到少年法院那少年法院的法官已經訂好 法官可以去審查完要求少輔會不可以停止繼續普選輔導 就兩邊那第二類就是少輔會認為所有輔導都用盡了 沒辦法"},{"start":9869.02,"end":9890.055,"text":"那就送到我们这边来我们就以普选的分案来进行是这两类好那这个跟我的认知有一点落差没关系我会持续的来研究好谢谢您的回答下一页第二个问题安置辅导的人数锐减我这里整理出近十年安置辅导人数统计从2015年154人一年到2024年一年只有15人"},{"start":9894.578,"end":9919.103,"text":"監察院在2019年也已經調查要求司法院跟衛福部要檢討對於這種無法媒合適當的安置機構對於偏遠地區的專業資源不足對於特殊狀況的少年特別難以去尋找願意來安置的機構這些都是困難跟問題一年只安置15人這個數字我覺得很難接受"},{"start":9921.168,"end":9945.864,"text":"谢谢委员提出的问题因为委员所讲的呈现的这个现象呢也是我们少年法院的痛因为安置辅导它是一个对某些孩子来讲适当的一个处分非常重要的我们那个因为法院毕竟是那个司法权那安置这是属于那个设置机构是属于行政端所以卫福部跟司法院都要一起看怎么来做吗"},{"start":9945.964,"end":9966.467,"text":"因為現在像現在目前全國目前可以接受那個司法安置只有11家25個床位它的量能就這麼少那如果說我們讓兩院當然是行政院的衛福部跟司法院共同來研議去建置一個專屬的少年的安置"},{"start":9968.129,"end":9990.18,"text":"機構可不可行我們就用一個新的大的計畫來做有沒有可能否則你會去依賴現在有的安置機構他能夠offer的空間人力物力的限制不是嗎這個部分其實司法院持續都有跟衛福部這個地方在開會有沒有可能這已經講很久了"},{"start":9992.263,"end":9994.786,"text":"是 報告委員 我們持續剛剛那個4年76億沒有這方面的規劃"},{"start":9997.964,"end":10025.632,"text":"沒有 我們持續一直在跟主管安置機構的社家署做相關的研議那目前有兩個作為比較積極一個就是達成協議說各縣市的社會局設有一個窗口在媒合司法少年那所以各單位各少年法庭需要的會去跟他們的窗口連結但媒合成功的是有一定但是也有沒成功的"},{"start":10026.472,"end":10049.827,"text":"沒成功的很多但是非常需要委員說的事權統一但現在還繼續在雙方協商中請你們去回去研議三個月內來針對這個國家來成立一個跨院的合作專屬的安置醫療機構可行性評估一下我必須持續追蹤這件事情好嗎否則我們就會"},{"start":10051.428,"end":10063.94,"text":"求助無門也都過度依賴現有的安置機構好我知道主持要站起來了我後面有幾個問題來下一個包括矯正學校的運作管理的疏失包括下一頁"},{"start":10065.202,"end":10093.039,"text":"包括我們的霸凌防制2025上路但是只用於四間小角校18間的少年關護所是outside我提出來請你們檢討最後一個我們的少年調查保護官的人力不足缺的人力是上百人好幾百位喔這後續有機會我會再就教於各位但是我希望能夠全面性的來提點出這些的問題之後才能夠系統性的有效的來解決"},{"start":10093.659,"end":10097.001,"text":"不好意思 再用時間我們下一次再討論謝謝幾位 謝謝好 謝謝吳思堯委員主席在這邊宣告今天這個整個邵氏法整個草案的一個詢答我相信這個是很嚴肅又很專業來挑戰的應該也不會太多所以我們就不休息了好不好"},{"start":10119.816,"end":10129.484,"text":"接下來請林月琴委員來做巡打請王逸川委員來做一下主席要上洗手間的就自行去吧來記得回來喔你要叫什麼謝謝主席我們請那個副秘書長還有跟社交署的黃組長"},{"start":10148.035,"end":10163.006,"text":"委員好兩位好那今天事實上是審查邵氏法那我有一些對案的版本除了今天有送進來的那個83條之一以外另外還有一些部分條文我們也會陸續進來趕上那個審查所以先來"},{"start":10166.636,"end":10184.152,"text":"跟兩位討論一下我比較關心的首先我想先問的是目前少式法和少年偏差行為預防跟輔導辦法當中針對少年持有未滿5公克的一個三四級的毒品請問一下複密歸誰管我請廳長來回覆是"},{"start":10189.403,"end":10214.593,"text":"謝謝委員這部分目前就是以邵府會跟我們開會的時候我們有給他一個法律意見就是暴嫌的第三款第三目就是持有第三世紀毒品那可以用預備預備犯罪不法然後來處理我們已經發文給他們那我們過去十五也是這樣做但這一次看到委員這樣的意見"},{"start":10216.354,"end":10232.397,"text":"我们其实是非常赞同因为我听到许多团体都来跟我反映持有三四级毒品的少年事实上是没有单位要管的因为教育单位虽然有村会专案的辅导可是没有遇到真的遇到他私用的话他通常是不会处理的"},{"start":10232.958,"end":10260.138,"text":"那就轉給小五會可是又會被推薦所以等於是無學級的少年一樣因為無學級的少年本來就是沒有對應措施了所以我認為持有已經是近視於私用了所以不能因為曝險行為跟偏差行為定義不明就讓實務現場各自退縮所以我知道司法委員現在針對這個問題呢先前也有召開會議並函文給警政署確認這樣子的一個行為真的是不是曝險行為所以"},{"start":10262.239,"end":10282.892,"text":"無法依我們18條之二項通知少婦會處理所以也要請警方查獲的時候要評估少年的持有的目的是不是製造販售或是轉讓的預備犯罪行為而且並且還要綜合評估少年的需保護性所以就想問說為什麼這件事情不能直接一點處理呢"},{"start":10283.892,"end":10308.205,"text":"直接就講這些持有行為納入到曝險定義當中更何況你如果要第一線的那個員警來做這樣的目前他們的訓練跟量能根本就是沒有辦法去做評估所以我認為這部分應該要修法定義更明確所以我有提出我的版本所在所以衛福部這邊大概今天審查的邵司法我也想"},{"start":10309.682,"end":10337.906,"text":"進一步的去能不能參照我們兒童權益公約的精神跟意志去增訂符合少年最佳利益的條文將處於多元性真正納入到我們的法條當中可是安置機構的我們的安置輔導事務上面對到的困境是我覺得司法院跟衛福部這邊到底有沒有掌握就誠如剛剛吳士堯委員在問的那樣子的一個課題不知道"},{"start":10339.016,"end":10342.559,"text":"複密和我們的衛福部社家署這邊謝謝委員的推詢其實我們的安置機構對於收容這樣子的少年其實應該是說心有餘而力不足那個力不足的部分為什麼心有力不足我就不太懂為什麼你110家的安置機構110家"},{"start":10363.452,"end":10386.703,"text":"目前只有兩家願意去承接司法安置少年15間事實上是有補助可是大家只有40%的量能去做特殊需求跟司法安置可是真正完全能夠去承接的大家就只有兩家而已因為司法安置事實上本來照顧的困難度就比較高可是你人員也沒有去搭配專業人員去到位"},{"start":10387.143,"end":10407.936,"text":"甚至經費補助又不足甚至你如果要安置機構去募款的話通常他怎麼會有辦法來貼補說那我今天司法安置的時候很大量的經費是要他們去募資這樣的資源所以我認為這樣子的一個服務萎縮的窘境難怪司法院他們大概就很難今天我要安置輔導為什麼"},{"start":10409.637,"end":10426.012,"text":"最後就是我覺得不利當初事實上司法轉向就是希望安置輔導不是去所謂的感化教育所以我們覺得這個是不是我認為衛福部要不要有一個說法或有一個對應的措施"},{"start":10427.068,"end":10442.199,"text":"是 謝謝委員我們現在都有在其實我們本來原定今天跟一些收容司法少年的機構開會因為颱風天所以我們會做一個延期那我們會收集到他們面臨第一線的一些更細節的意見之後然後我們也會再來跟"},{"start":10443.4,"end":10469.765,"text":"相關的部會因為這個也涉及到教育部的就學這一塊勞動部的就業這一塊動作快一點因為監察院108年就提出調查報告了要求司法院跟衛福部都要盡速來研商所以我覺得複密在這邊跟我覺得衛福部要盡快去做處理否則我們看到數量就是一直銳減最後你就還是管化教育就都不會去做安置輔導所以最後大家就期待"},{"start":10470.825,"end":10482.799,"text":"真的去檢討偏差跟暴險少年的一些定義還有就是安置輔導這一塊真的要去處理不是安置機構所以他們很需要的是專業人員的導入還有經費的挹注"},{"start":10486.17,"end":10508.923,"text":"為什麼因為他們基本上還是可以去做只是因為資源不到位然後呢專業人力又沒有辦法協助因為通常我們也不認為應該要重新在完全的是專責的一個安置機構可能反而是又是集中那又是另外一個矯智學校的一個翻版可能要考慮的是轉向輔導的這樣的一個方式以上 謝謝好 謝謝月秦委員"},{"start":10514.134,"end":10517.218,"text":"接下來我們請莊瑞雄委員是的 主席 謝謝主席有請我們司法院王副秘還有我們徐政次"},{"start":10540.134,"end":10555.562,"text":"我想首先必須要先來肯定我們這次司法院提出的一個版本針對整個少年保護處分提供轉換不同處意的一個模式為什麼說肯定這當然就是落實整個聯合國兒童權益公約改善事務上的一個困境"},{"start":10556.582,"end":10577.359,"text":"但是我們也必須要去講就是說其實在公約40條裡面我們去看到了就是你為了確保兒童的一個福祉或者並合乎這個自身狀況跟違法情勢做一個多樣性的一個處置就像過去在實務上你說除了訓誡保護管束安置機構趕快教育是種不同樣中"},{"start":10579.26,"end":10599.826,"text":"過去就是說這個四個廚藝當中如果少年不適合的話最多你就是停止執行那沒有辦法去做一個轉換那現在新修法這個是一個好事但是呢我今天特別去聽了我們這個廳長廳長你今天講了很多很勇於任事就提出一些"},{"start":10600.626,"end":10612.092,"text":"不同的一個看法可是我是覺得還是要特別小心你像譬如說你去看到我們過去你說我特別提出來就是說這個塗銷對於整個兒童的或少年的一個保護我們講說塗銷最主要的目的是要幹什麼"},{"start":10620.276,"end":10649.683,"text":"就是說來自於外界對他那種窺視你避免將少年貼上這個標籤使他可以順利的更生復歸這個社會當然我知道司法院尤其是廳長你這邊提出來或者說學者專家大家去討論這樣的一個版本裡面利用少年來犯罪這可惡但是真正可惡的我反而倒不覺得是少年或者兒童是這些大人"},{"start":10651.041,"end":10680.024,"text":"我們在每一個法律裡面你看我們這個整個刑法的規定是你只要是利用未成年的那都是加重二分之一這個次長應該很清楚這個覆滅這個審判實務那麼驚艷老道的可是就怪今天這麼多委員在提到說整個那個少年犯罪的不斷的一個提升還有詐騙大家在打詐沒有成效你看那個車手的六成這是非常可怕的"},{"start":10680.987,"end":10694.687,"text":"那你說我為什麼本席在主席台上我就認為說我們是為了保持一點點的文明的形象否則針對這一些詐騙人我都真的主張要殺無色可是你又沒辦法"},{"start":10695.959,"end":10715.359,"text":"很多在野黨委員認為說這個要判處死刑啊什麼樣沒有那麼簡單啊那個是最後的一個手段把人的生命給剝奪掉我反而擔心的是什麼你說好來採用了大家集體來反制這種重刑的社會大人分開的全部判處死刑萬一沒效呢"},{"start":10716.36,"end":10737.03,"text":"那不就宣告整個國家的一個法制就瓦解了嗎所以到底問題出在什麼地方要用重點亂世用重點我倒不認為是一個亂世但是這個詐騙猖狂這確實是這樣子利用兒童 利用少年又是一個事實有什麼比較好的補嗎這個司法院的好像不適合講這個來 社長"},{"start":10750.28,"end":10769.207,"text":"我想我們目前對於小孩子成人利用小孩子這個部分以前我們比較缺乏跟少年法院這邊的聯繫上一次我們政委還有我們都跟司法院已經做了很好的溝通現在就是在地檢署跟地方法院"},{"start":10769.767,"end":10784.954,"text":"第二法院我們有一個聯繫的會議也就是說像現在對於陳少共犯的部分他們已經提供很多很多的協助那跟少年法庭這邊來合作這個是有效可以打擊這些成年人"},{"start":10785.914,"end":10806.164,"text":"我剛剛非常贊成委員剛才所講的就是說該處罰的是利用這些小孩子的後面的成年人現在給我們這麼大的注意的話我們在司法警察在追溯這些源頭是有一定的注意我們認為在追緝面是這樣宣導面當然我們也會努力"},{"start":10806.884,"end":10830.395,"text":"其實這個是一個跨部會的問題委員你很了解我們現實的社會裡面這個在教育面 學校面是大家要一起努力的否則這個小孩子縱使是感化教育他回到社會以後如果家庭跟學校沒有辦法接觸他他又會回到那個集團這就是不斷地在衍生出來的問題剛好洪孟凱委員"},{"start":10831.776,"end":10855.255,"text":"這是很專業的委員剛好走進來他上次談到這個詐騙犯他是認為要用新加坡那個邊形我是反對他的看法我反對他的部分因為沒有時間講得不清楚我認為都太便宜了你打幾邊你真的以為這個詐騙他這個本身他就你真的他這個就會這個整個犯罪就會降下來沒有那麼簡單的事啊就這一些詐騙的人是可惡啊"},{"start":10859.915,"end":10888.068,"text":"你說要打他幾邊你浪費多大的一個社會的成本怎麼是打他幾邊而已怎麼是打他幾邊而已反而我倒覺得說這個應該是要用怎麼樣的嚇阻的一個方式或者如何去加重其刑那當然最主要就是說我們整個司法警察部門這個部分如何去快速去把這些瓦解掉那才是一個重點"},{"start":10889.128,"end":10917.372,"text":"那我想接下來我必須要再請教司法院的就是說我們整個塗銷我們涉及到這個修法裡面會有塗銷你去看看我們最高法院過去的實務你說98年台非322那個刑事判決裡面去講到說你受刑的執行完畢後赦免一日起算三年內未在手刑之先運告該前科紀錄不復存在那就是說這個少年在此三年內是否再犯罪"},{"start":10918.704,"end":10938.917,"text":"並非所問那我看今天看了廳長的這些講法以後當然是回應社會啦回應社會啦但是你去看這個歷程你說塗銷這個歷程跟少年事件的一個少事法的一個典範轉移的一個重要條文你從沒有塗銷到一直鼓勵到達到充分保護的一個意志"},{"start":10940.031,"end":10959.992,"text":"你看這個大家 我現在王滬密或者廳長應該很清楚嘛林濟東 韓中 我這都算我們的師公當年你說在1955年在成立少年法專案小組的時候採依教不依法的立法的一個原則也就是說過去的少事法是充滿的少年的保護主義"},{"start":10960.697,"end":10983.658,"text":"那到了1976年起戒嚴時期又被質疑說是鼓勵犯罪重視社會治安的維護高於青少年的健全的一個教育所以你在1976年又增添一個塗銷制度五年未再宣告執行完畢或者赦免五年以內沒有再受行之宣告視為未曾受該宣告以致來做一個鼓勵"},{"start":10984.947,"end":10999.164,"text":"後來1997年就一個分水嶺就全面又回歸少年保護制度把這個塗銷這個部分我相信又做了一個改變修法前跟修法後這個塗銷的一個差異我想請"},{"start":11000.621,"end":11026.3,"text":"複密跟這個徐政次你去做一個參考這一些我倒覺得說你現在不分室友輕重都在增加一個三年未在犯罪的室友才可以突消是不是符合這個國際公約裡面健全少年自我成長跟避免烙印或污名化的一個初衷我們在司法法治委員會裡面我們常常會去談到國際公約對不對因為"},{"start":11030.032,"end":11052.182,"text":"兒童權利施行法裡面他就講得很清楚我是今天早上去聽你這樣的一個詢打的時候我是嚇一跳因為如果以最高法院歷來的一個見解的話都認為這個施行法是在法律適用的時候是一個特別法"},{"start":11054.198,"end":11077.378,"text":"我不曉得那個廳長你的看法是怎麼樣因為早上都是你在回答是不是可以就教你一下好不好我的意思就是說兒童權利公約我們內國化以後那你最高法院你一向都是肯認是優先適用是的 我同意委員的說明"},{"start":11078.129,"end":11102.831,"text":"你同意但是你自己可以說話不公平我是認為要謹慎你是個在回應社會不錯社會上很多狀況你就必須要解決老百姓對這個詐騙是非常痛恨的司法院勇於認識這是好事但是我認為你對因為這一步叫做少年事件處理法你這個是方向在轉彎要小心"},{"start":11103.812,"end":11127.934,"text":"這個在對話這個過程裡面應該是是不是再應該是再怎麼講 再謹慎一點學者專家是不是比較多元的意見再納進來一下否則的話我是比較我是比較擔心對於整個兒童的一個保護的一個部分"},{"start":11129.298,"end":11156.393,"text":"所以會變成為了回應整個社會的一個事件的應對應對這樣的一個結果呢會不會到最後被認為是一個草率因為過去的少年都是在講保護然後呢我們是鞏固他將來發展的一個可能性那變成說你這次的修法裡面草案裡面我看到了變成說你把硬報跟預防都放進來了都放進來了"},{"start":11158.479,"end":11180.482,"text":"那所以呢跟過去如果說你們有什麼意見或確實認為整個少年事件都不應該完全是採這個教化寬容社會安全網的多元儲育來做一個改善的話那這個部分反而我覺得說也應該來講清楚了來講清楚了而且又牽扯到整個"},{"start":11181.717,"end":11203.553,"text":"這個整個聯合國的一個公約我們已經把它內國化了那是不是司法院的立場這個確實不應該只按這個在巡達裡面簡單的幾句話講完以後大家認為就是你代表整個司法院的立場我覺得這個就真的要慎重所以我今天早上一直講說你今天的態度比法務部還"},{"start":11206.356,"end":11222.654,"text":"還寂靜就已經在這個地方不曉得那個廳長謝謝委員的指教我認為少年復歸社會去處標籤確實是剛剛說的兒權公約的一個明定很清楚那原來的少數還是這樣"},{"start":11223.715,"end":11236.523,"text":"那麼我們事完提出來這個版本附條件的這個部分寬延的問題我們接受各界來尋求剛剛委員說的那個內容我同意 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝莊隊熊委員接下來我們請洪孟楷委員主席謝謝 慢慢請法務部次長"},{"start":11255.108,"end":11255.128,"text":"來 次長請"},{"start":11259.437,"end":11288.558,"text":"委員好好 次長好 次長因為剛剛本席也被我們專委員來點名到我想一個月前我在總質詢的時候就已經有提過就是說因為現在看到新加坡已經正式三讀通過詐騙納入編刑的一個刑責裡面那其中其實剛剛專委員他在講就是說他的意思啦我聽起來是說他不要說太便宜了就說應該是要讓犯罪者付出應有的代價"},{"start":11289.378,"end":11302.423,"text":"對不對更大的代價所以我先請教一下新加坡就你們現在了解他是不是不是只有打完邊形就算了他應該有的刑責原本有要關幾年要罰多少錢是不是一樣延續"},{"start":11306.399,"end":11331.873,"text":"是所以不存在莊委員剛剛講的問題就是說新加坡他是把詐騙原本已經要罰多少要關多久但是因為很嚴重很嚴峻所以我新加坡增加了就是說除了原本的刑責以外還要再加上鞭刑那這樣子反而是更能夠讓犯罪者付出他應該有的代價是不是這樣"},{"start":11334.739,"end":11351.25,"text":"編刑不是我們刑法上我現在在問新加坡因為委員剛才提到說加張劇的話更能夠嚇阻我們現在在因為我國還沒有等一下這是我第二個問題但我現在先問的是因為我要化解我們現在召委專委員的疑慮"},{"start":11352.711,"end":11371.064,"text":"就是說不是要便宜行事啊亂適用重點而且是要嚇阻那些犯罪者讓他知道說痛讓他知道說不能犯罪那一樣嘛過去我們現在做了很多不管打詐是法 打詐無法我們該加重刑責的加重了該增加的罰金加重了但是詐騙一樣猖獗啊"},{"start":11372.845,"end":11386.895,"text":"今年上半年度480億的詐騙金額上個禮拜五還有5億多一天飆升的詐騙金額那為什麼詐騙還那麼猖獗所以新加坡他們用另外一個方式就除了原有的刑責以外再加上編刑"},{"start":11388.24,"end":11406.367,"text":"等於是原有形則不變再加上邊形更大的嚇阻所以這是化解我們剛剛莊委員還有一些部分人士的疑慮不是說二則一有邊形就不用關或是有關就不用邊形 不是的新加坡是把它累加上去是不是這樣子"},{"start":11413.992,"end":11437.423,"text":"這個我們在你剛剛你的幕僚都有講是這樣子有什麼好不是 本席有一說一因為我手上沒有資料所以我不敢回答那這樣子就第二個問題了本席在總質詢的時候不過剛剛您的幕僚已經跟你講說是這樣子了本席查的資料也是這樣子好不好因為這畢竟是上個禮拜他們正式三讀通過的我想這是公開的資訊大家都可以查但是第二個問題"},{"start":11438.624,"end":11454.349,"text":"本席也沒有說馬上現在就要推動邊行是因為我國目前沒有這樣子的一個行則好 那可是我們在講是說詐騙那麼的猖獗我們要來防治就要有更積極的作為因為任何人都沒有辦法接受詐騙在台灣猖獗嘛"},{"start":11455.769,"end":11479.591,"text":"也因此新加坡已經變成是一個很好的實驗的對照組就是他們已經三讀通過了那本席也說應該要趕快來了解如果說未來三個月未來半年內新加坡的詐騙數真的有因為邊形納入之後而有下降不管是犯罪的人數 犯罪金額有下降的話那是不是就可以變成是我國立法的參考"},{"start":11480.922,"end":11509.296,"text":"就是人家真的實施之後真的有嚇阻詐騙的效果那我們能不能來研議這樣子的一個部分那我想請教一個月前我在總執行提出行政院長也說可以請法務部來做可行性評估跟研究那到目前為止我們做了哪些研究跟評估我想我們這個政法兩面都有啦不要先撇開我的問題是現在做哪些研究跟評估"},{"start":11510.865,"end":11527.777,"text":"不是正反兩面都有我們現在還 我們還在研議這個有沒有違反禁錮公約的第一條的規定這個法律上我們必須要先研究或者我們今天所以你們做了哪些研議"},{"start":11530.647,"end":11558.301,"text":"內部研議找專家學者研議這個都是在規劃中有規劃中因為本席那時候總質詢是講說半年的時間現在已經過了六分之一了一個多月過去了那如果說你這樣的進度很顯然到半年有沒有辦法拿出一個而且甚至那一天本席有講是說要請法務部也要去了解我們的民情到底大家能不能接受跟支持因為實在話講嘛"},{"start":11559.261,"end":11575.547,"text":"立法委員是人民一票一票選出來我們代表民意嘛所以我們來做立法嘛那一樣民眾的思考跟民眾的想法也是我們很重要的立法參考不管是立法院或者是行政部門嘛也因此我們現在要了解的是說國人對於詐騙沒有辦法接受"},{"start":11576.167,"end":11603.335,"text":"那人家已經有更積極的態度來去對付詐騙這個方法有沒有效我們還不知道所以需要去了解以及最後國人能不能接受我們要用更積極的態度來去對付詐騙還是國人認為是說沒關係詐騙放著反正我們就是要人權至上我覺得這也有可能但是我現在要求的是說當我們要更進一步的在司法法治委員會如果說未來有修法的話行政部門應該要給我們這些相關資料"},{"start":11606.377,"end":11624.287,"text":"這個議題我們會放在行修小組我們本部的行修小組會議裡面請專家學者提供意見好 所以也會廣大意見剛才所指教的這個部分我們也去了解一下我們國內民意的方向好 所以了解民意的方向會有什麼樣的方法做民調"},{"start":11625.362,"end":11644.584,"text":"最快嘛法務部可以來做一個全民民調我們會後會去研議用什麼方式本席還是強調就是說我想我們這一間辦公室的人沒有人支持詐騙大家對詐騙深惡痛絕本席要有一個態度就是我們已經看到別的國家有用更積極的方式來對付詐騙"},{"start":11645.745,"end":11664.73,"text":"那這個方法有沒有效大家也不知道我相信甚至連新加坡他們政府官方可能有做過相關的資料但是他們也不確定百分之百有效所以才需要時間嘛所以我才講是說如果可以用一個對照組三個月後我們來看一下新加坡他們的刑事案件詐騙案件有沒有真的往下降"},{"start":11665.31,"end":11682.897,"text":"可以當過我國的一個很重要的立法參考我覺得這也是一個好事那另外一個部分我們也了解國內的民意所以今天市長已經正式的回答本席會納入這個小組並且來做討論而且也會來廣稱民意那本席會再持續追蹤這個議題好不好是好 謝謝"},{"start":11686.439,"end":11691.281,"text":"好 謝謝洪孟愷委員精闢的質詢其實你誤解我的意思啦你這個其實這個社會關注你不要小看這個議題喔這個社會搞不好民調會很高喔但是我會覺得你這個太保守了應該加一個遊街示眾或者說你來提案"},{"start":11705.385,"end":11708.647,"text":"所以說嘛 都叫人家願意沒有人敢提案的啦這個變成說這個確實有一點比較不文明但是回應整個民粹法務部你既然已經答應人家了你就開始好好去做接下來請羅廷偉委員詢答"},{"start":11724.748,"end":11747.213,"text":"來 我先處理一下會議時間我們上午會議的時間就進行到所有登記委員發言的委員詢問結束為止好 謝謝主席有請副秘書長請王副秘有請法務部政務次長請徐政次委員好好"},{"start":11748.663,"end":11771.204,"text":"我先補充一下剛剛鄭副市長對於這個邊形還有這個到底要不要坐牢兩者是折衣還是這樣子的我延續上一個話題我想補充一下就我自己也有了解那你有沒有所知道當這一個受刑人可能是有生理上的疾病沒辦法承受瞬間的重大這樣子的邊形的時候新加坡是怎麼做"},{"start":11776.124,"end":11785.675,"text":"包圍 這個我們手上沒有增加坐牢的時間所以你可以去研究這樣子的情況之下呢基本上它還會再往上加"},{"start":11786.966,"end":11815.362,"text":"所以我相信剛剛就像剛剛洪孟愷委員說的他絕對不是二則一他一定是兩者並行然後並且在不可承受這瞬間的邊形的過程當中他有一個替代方案所以這個部分我還是希望就像延續剛剛說的研究一下到底我們現在的民情到底現在能不能立法的可能都能夠讓我們能夠追蹤這個進度當然剛剛你有說民調也是作為一個研議之一"},{"start":11816.002,"end":11830.279,"text":"是不是有機會一個月內先回覆我們可不可以做民調可不可以做就好我這裡不能承諾任何事情我說我們會探求民意但是方式上我們回去那你探求的方法你可不可以跟我講一下我們回去一定要討論"},{"start":11831.36,"end":11853.22,"text":"就是你們自己內部討論要探求民意剛才那個昭偉有特別講到說單方面的去問民調恐怕跟死刑那個會得到同樣的結論那有時候不是這樣子看一件事一個政策不能完全都看這個如果你們沒辦法真正了解民意我們會讓你們看到什麼叫民意不是這麼簡單一個政策不是這麼簡單我想有一個問題跟副秘書長討論"},{"start":11858.064,"end":11884.559,"text":"交保金額過低我們最近看到一個新聞讓我們非常的感嘆太子集團交保金額過低我想其他的委員一定都有在討論近期引發整個社會的關注根據檢方的資料太子集團整個涉嫌跨國的詐騙跟洗錢涉案的金額高達45億元但多數被告交保金額介於3萬到100萬交保金額跟犯罪所得不符比例"},{"start":11885.279,"end":11890.052,"text":"我先請問一下 副秘書長你有沒有看一個新的劇 叫回魂記"},{"start":11892.16,"end":11918.071,"text":"包委員沒有我基本不看劇的好 不看劇的沒關係 有機會看一下因為很重要我不會提這麼無聊的問題就代表他有背後的一個目的最近年輕人都在看這一部戲那看的人都心有戚戚焉連我這個做立法委員的喵到我都覺得怎麼會這樣三個女孩子被騙到國外的過程最後衍生出他們必須變成詐騙的幫手"},{"start":11919.992,"end":11939.871,"text":"整個死刑的方法都從回魂記這一部劇裡面呈現出來最後也有許多的孩子就非常慘烈的在這部戲裡面呈現出他的慘狀那整個過程當中我們還看到就是祖賢最後在國外是被判處死刑"},{"start":11940.97,"end":11966.915,"text":"但是在台灣回想在台灣他的交保金額我們看到其中有一個集團旗下有一位女特助15萬元交保當場是笑著離開引發整個社會的討論關注這一個圖片不是我做的是網路上在流傳的點閱率極高但是我想要問大家"},{"start":11968.299,"end":11976.318,"text":"這不對於整個國人的觀感整個對整個司法的不信任甚至是打擊執法人員的一個士氣嗎"},{"start":11977.867,"end":12006.536,"text":"我想這也是卓榮泰院長他自己也都感覺到他也有發表這樣的言論所以整個太子集團涉案的金額高達45億元但多數的交保金額看到不符比例重大的經濟犯罪交保金額有顯著的落差的時候我想問富密你可不可以回應社會是否考慮調整重大詐欺以及洗錢案件的交保標準避免類似的金額落差可以回應嗎"},{"start":12007.557,"end":12020.831,"text":"包委員您所垂詢的案件交保15萬這個是在偵查中檢察官直接交保他並沒有申請法院所以說並不是法院所做的裁定但是他最後是不是就15萬離開了"},{"start":12022.429,"end":12048.345,"text":"那是檢察官做的決定所以是檢察官的問題所以要法部部來處理我不能說是不是問題我覺得這個是整個司法院你要去做統籌的去做整個社會民情的調查觀感不佳今天你不是說這不是法院判的這是檢察官這邊的我當然知道可是現在我就問你難道現在卓榮泰院長11日他說坦言這不僅造成國人觀感不佳"},{"start":12049.42,"end":12066.867,"text":"也造成執法人員打擊士氣那請問你是不是要用一樣的話去告訴卓榮泰這不是法院判的這是檢察官在偵查的時候15萬交保所以今天不是這樣回應我們整個司法院去做整體的檢討這部分您覺得呢有關於那個交保的那個金額"},{"start":12073.689,"end":12101.423,"text":"这个部分司法院就是如果说是到法院这一段那个来啦就是说那个法院我们也有一些那个裁量那个基准就是给那个法官们那个参考那卓荣他是属于我是不想吐你啦其他的案件就有高于这样子的一个交保金额啦不要跟我讲现在是检察官啦再来啦 枫园一家五口也是15万交保啦都刚好15万"},{"start":12102.757,"end":12128.431,"text":"奇怪了社會就有這樣子的疑慮今天主席已經站起來了我還是希望把這一個聲音帶到整個司法院我希望你們好好的檢討其他的案件就可以交保金額這麼高我不想提特定的案例等下你們又說這是個案可是現在看到這個問題就是民眾觀感不佳整個司法不信任希望你們好好檢討"},{"start":12129.52,"end":12145.023,"text":"好謝謝羅委員的詢答那接下來請林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員不在蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在來林淑雯委員"},{"start":12160.373,"end":12165.3,"text":"好 謝謝主席是不是請我們副秘書長請王副秘委員好副秘書長在我國的法律施行細則哪一部法律的施行細則條文最多你知道嗎"},{"start":12178.72,"end":12189.996,"text":"這個我倒沒有研究沒有研究是我是看到國民法官法的施行細則很多條是你知道多少條嗎幾百條"},{"start":12193.311,"end":12209.839,"text":"對 比他的母法還要多三倍341條那這麼多條裡面所以你印象所及有哪一部法律的施行細則是超過300條的 比他多的確實沒有 印象中沒有沒有"},{"start":12211.96,"end":12235.933,"text":"人家都說這個法律多牛如毛那一個國民法官法的施行細則有341條那想必當初你們司法院認為是有需要才會定出這麼耗煩的施行細則不過這個施行細則我要請問你大家都知道施行細則的法律位階是什麼"},{"start":12237.419,"end":12258.05,"text":"次於法律次於法律 OK那請問妳在這個法律的位階裡面施行細則裡面可以不可以自己寫著說我要排除某一個法律的適用可不可以說我不受某個法律的管制施行細則裡面可以嗎這個是就是基本法理就是基本法理那我剛剛講的"},{"start":12268.236,"end":12284.294,"text":"細則當然不能違背法律啊但細則裡面定出來的文字寫我排除某條法律的適用因為詳細的那個情形我不知道OK沒關係我現在很具體的告訴你國民法官法施行細則341條的條文當中啊"},{"start":12288.138,"end":12317.041,"text":"其中有一條施行細則第二八九之一條第一項規定本法第八十八條就母法國民法官法第八十八條所稱得僅記載證據名稱及對重要爭點判斷的理由指下列四項並不受刑事訴訟法第三百一十條第一款第二款規定的限制"},{"start":12318.14,"end":12338.975,"text":"你們自己去補充你們母法你知道施行細則這樣寫施行細則說我不受刑事訴訟法第310條第一款第二款規定的限制你覺得這樣子妥當嗎報委員因為在那個"},{"start":12340.496,"end":12357.829,"text":"我這樣說好了先從結論上來看就是這個施行細則他跟他的那個母法國民法官法他是沒有違背的那國民法官他的制度當時還設計的時候呢他確實有跟我們傳統的這個刑事程序他做了很多這個我當然知道但我跟你講"},{"start":12358.931,"end":12369.365,"text":"他的母法國民法官法第88條條文只有這樣子喔有罪的判決書有關認定犯罪事實的理由得緊記載證據名稱及對重要爭點判斷的理由那請問"},{"start":12374.452,"end":12386.782,"text":"母法第88條有說我要排除刑事訴訟法第310條第一款第二款嗎因為310條如果我沒記錯應該是有判決你認為310條跟母法第88條會有判決嗎他確實做了一個不太一樣的設計對不一樣的設計但是即便如此你如果認為應該要排除刑事訴訟法第這個"},{"start":12404.217,"end":12427.958,"text":"310條的適用你也應該要修法而且應該要定在國民法官法的法條裡面怎麼可能沒有定好法律沒有制定好你們就便宜行事然後你們再一個法規的未接的施行細則你們說我要排除這個的適用我知道你們本意是什麼但是你們便宜行事你們在破壞法律的架構"},{"start":12429.659,"end":12456.456,"text":"所以呢你要在施行細則當中說不受刑事訴訟法的限制那你應該要在國民法官法裡面修法不是嗎那個謝謝委員指教因為我想這是不同的那個解讀因為就是說國民法官他因為就是不要這樣講副秘書長這不是解讀我在講法律上嚴肅的問題你的施行細則要來自於母法的授權"},{"start":12457.617,"end":12485.096,"text":"你要排除其他法律的適用要法律保留原則而你的母法裡面沒有要直接寫排除雖然你們整部法律的適用的設計其實是要排除或者是要部分不一樣但你應該在母法裡面設計啊報告委員因為88條它的那個規定呢它事實上就已經是和刑事訴訟法310條做了一個不同的那個"},{"start":12485.196,"end":12504.694,"text":"那你當初在母法你就要最後一項要講我要排除刑事訴訟法第310條第一款第二款的適用你要在母法裡面怎麼會是在一個施行細則裡面你們顯然看到了有問題所以才在施行細則裡面要加這一句話"},{"start":12506.82,"end":12522.305,"text":"因為這個國民法官法88條它就是特別規定有關於國民法官他有賭罪判決要怎麼寫那寫的這個內容已經和刑訴310條不一樣了如果沒有特別的規定當然是刑事訴訟法裡面的規定"},{"start":12524.076,"end":12549.1,"text":"但你國民法官法要特別的規定你應該在母法裡面規定哪有母法沒有規定然後你在施行棄責說我要排除刑事訴訟法所以我說這是便宜刑事啊我不是反對喔是你們便宜刑事你覺得這樣的法律架構可以嗎你剛剛一開頭我就問你說他的法律位階是什麼他可以在一個這麼比法律位階還要低的地方說我要排除"},{"start":12549.62,"end":12568.539,"text":"刑事诉讼法的适用吗因为刚刚那个施行细则它的依据是从国民法官法国民法官法的母法88条没有直接说我排除刑事诉讼法的适用但是从它的文艺的规定里面就已经排除了刑诉310条了它就已经排除因为不一样啊"},{"start":12569.656,"end":12595.371,"text":"如果不一樣 那你的施行棄責改掉如果舊母法就足夠有法源的話你把你的施行棄責排除什麼法律的字眼拿掉確實施行棄責不寫那一句話結論上還是一樣的那寫了架構不一樣喔現在我的意思是說你們明年1月1號開始要針對最輕本刑10年以上所有有期徒刑都要適用國民法官法了"},{"start":12595.971,"end":12617.363,"text":"你現在要好好去檢討你所有的施行細則300多條哪些你是排除刑事訴訟法的規定的你的母法裡面沒有約束好的沒有法律保留原則的而你通通都直接就在便宜刑事在施行細則裡面定好的你難道不用整部法律再拿出來看一下嗎譬如說"},{"start":12619.09,"end":12638.979,"text":"譬如說國民法官法第六條第一項規定應該行國民法官審判的案件有幾種例外可以由法院裁定不適用國民法官法其中第四款被告就背訴的事實為有罪的陳述被告都認罪了然後呢"},{"start":12639.739,"end":12665.677,"text":"然後經審判長告知被告通常審判程序之指且依案件情節認不行國民參與審判為適當所以這一條講得很清楚如果被告認罪了那後半段是說依案件情節認不行國民法官審判為適當你可不可以舉幾個例子告訴我們後半段指涉的法律的意旨是什麼"},{"start":12667.021,"end":12684.595,"text":"而認為說該案情節這個不適合行國運參與審判那這個標準除了第六條第一項的前幾款以外還有什麼這個我是不是請法官來回覆好 來"},{"start":12687.395,"end":12703.071,"text":"報告委員那這部分是國民法官法的第六條第一項的規定我知道那告以通常審判程序之指那就是說告知他說通常審判程序的那個進行內容跟他的權利事項我知道對那案件情節我是叫你舉個例子可以告訴我們"},{"start":12704.551,"end":12717.224,"text":"好 舉個例子告訴我們第一個被告都認罪了第二個你也告知他這個程序了通常審判的程序了那依案件情節認為不行參與國民審判國民法官審判為"},{"start":12720.768,"end":12743.846,"text":"為適當 你舉個例子給我通常就涉及到良心的部分如果良心的部分有涉及到例如說需要國民法官意見參與的部分比較多要反映國民法官感情的時候這時候可能就不適宜轉換所以這個爭點就是剩下良心的部分那在良心上面認為有可能會傷及國民情感的你舉個例子給我聽就涉及到例如說特別侵害到所謂的個人人身法益的那個部分"},{"start":12745.527,"end":12771.961,"text":"如果有涉及到這個部分的話具體的例子高度社會矚目不見得是社會矚目可能是身體法醫的侵害這個部分最高本刑十年以上當然是這樣子現在講第六條整條都在講可以不要適用國民法官法的審理所以叫你們訂然後叫你已經訂出來了"},{"start":12772.728,"end":12790.458,"text":"我現在在根據一個司法院判決查詢系統裡面講有一個檢察官起訴傷害致死的案件而這個裁定的內容被告承認犯罪全部都承認那被告也跟被害人的家屬達成和解"},{"start":12791.939,"end":12817.681,"text":"被告跟被害人的家屬也都明確表示因為曠日廢時 程序冗長我全部都認罪 我也全部都和解了被害的家屬也認為說我們也不想要國民法官也不要在這種狀況裡面你覺得說這樣的條件符不符合第六條第一項第四款"},{"start":12818.883,"end":12842.052,"text":"報告委員 個案的部分我們不方便評論不過就整體上而言就是說這部分當然各法院他有自己的獨立審判認為適不適合國民法官參與這個良心部分他會有各自的判斷那當然這部分將來就是由上訴程序來進行審查你們一定標準回答這樣子好 來你們法院法官堅持一定要走國民法官法的審理程序"},{"start":12843.549,"end":12860.808,"text":"這個你剛剛講說個別法官自刑的裁量我現在不是要跟你講個案我是要很清楚的問你第一個被告承認犯罪然後從被告跟被害人家屬達成和解被告跟被害人家屬都明確講我不要用國民法官法因為對我們來講折騰而且跑法院的程序冗長"},{"start":12865.552,"end":12890.823,"text":"那第四個法律規定明明就規定也可以這樣子為什麼你們的法官堅持要用國民法官法為什麼還要陪你們完成國民法官審判的這個績效我再問你副秘書長司法審判的目的是什麼司法審判的目的不管職業法官或是國民法官司法審判的最終極的目的是什麼"},{"start":12893.055,"end":12914.267,"text":"就是把實體正義透過司法程序實現出來第一個一定是發現真實第二個罰當其罪 對不對就是要這樣子我們現在就是說在這種狀況裡面法官為什麼會堅持一定說你要給我陪我走完國民參審的審判"},{"start":12916.846,"end":12934.285,"text":"所以在這裡你們訂了第六條可以例外可是為什麼法官現在認為說你們要陪我走完這個審判國民參審的審判為什麼那個委員我想兩個部分有沒有一種是制度面的問題有"},{"start":12936.01,"end":12962.397,"text":"制度面什麼問題第一個當然是個案 個案情形因為不知道那個是個案法官的考慮然後第二個就是說這個是回應國民法官法它的制度的本質就是說剛委員講得很好就是罰當其罪但是什麼是一個適當的刑罰其實我們法院那個判決以前出去的時候大部分對於有罪無罪還不會引起這麼大爭議"},{"start":12964.238,"end":12990.851,"text":"這個都是非常重大的社會高度矚目的那一些犯罪但你們的刑事犯罪非常多十年以上的也很多不是每個都要叫國民法官除非我們整個司法體制要改要全改陪審團制否則我們不是在這裡陪著你們跑這麼冗長的程序我現在要講的是說還有一個有沒有可能是一種可能你們法院在事務分配的制度上有問題"},{"start":12993.002,"end":12995.31,"text":"你知道你们事务分配上的制度有什么问题吗"},{"start":12998.438,"end":13027.238,"text":"請委員指教你不知道可能裝算的吧分案的時候如果你們讓你的案件去使用參審國民法官審理的程序審判長折抵兩件分案受命法官折抵四件到宣誓判決的時候審判長折抵四件受命法官再折抵十件"},{"start":13027.978,"end":13029.04,"text":"這個獎勵機制不得了了這個法官可以折抵十個案件分案可以少十個"},{"start":13037.099,"end":13062.345,"text":"所以如果裁定不行國民參與審判程序則不得主張折抵上訴於宣誓判決時再折抵的件數所以你們怎樣一邊鼓勵折抵交付國民法官審判鼓勵你們法官我給你好的鼓勵的機制你趕快交付給國民法官審判然後去折抵案件你的分擔量會減少"},{"start":13063.405,"end":13070.572,"text":"另一方面你們嚴格的限縮了如果你法官本身你自行去裁定你不讓他進行國民法官參審的程序進行的時候你是不能夠去折抵的換句話說"},{"start":13079.9,"end":13095.666,"text":"這一種事務分配的制度這一種獎勵制度這一種誘因把受命法官自身的利益建立在可能可能凌駕或犧牲當事人的權利之上有沒有可能"},{"start":13098.786,"end":13121.848,"text":"那個包委員我們的觀察跟了解並不是這樣子的因為就是說我的觀察就這個個案從司法體系去觀察因為人家被告全部都認罪了你講的我全認罪然後呢跟被害家屬也達成和解被害者的家屬也說我不想要再跑這一個國民法官審理的程序"},{"start":13122.669,"end":13133.582,"text":"然後法律也規定可以這樣子為什麼你們要硬要人家陪著你們玩跑完這個程序你知道你知道這個副秘書長告訴你"},{"start":13134.966,"end":13155.032,"text":"全台灣我去調資料全台灣各地方法院適用國民法官法的案件數跟被告這個被適用國民法官法案件裡面的被告他去申請法律輔助的人數的比例有多高你知道嗎"},{"start":13156.042,"end":13165.591,"text":"非常的高非常的高為什麼多高請林淑芬委員控制一下時間好不好好最後兩分鐘為什麼這麼高為什麼多高多高"},{"start":13170.795,"end":13173.896,"text":"在那個113年177件裡面呢這個是從件數來看那從被告來看的話有153位被告適用國民法官審理的案件裡面113年177件去申請法律輔助的有153件高達將近87%然後將近9成為什麼"},{"start":13198.533,"end":13209.602,"text":"因為這些所有的案件都是強制辯護案件事實上我們現在都可以申請輔助的富民署長 你內行人講外行話"},{"start":13210.809,"end":13234.526,"text":"國民法官案件的律師 對他們律師還有被告本身來說程序相當的冗長 很難處理 事情很繁瑣所以律師費用都比一般案件還要貴 還要高事實上很多被告都負擔不起 只能去找法輔啦"},{"start":13235.635,"end":13256.671,"text":"是這樣子而且法律師事實上不太愛辦這種案件所以我要告訴你說其實因為事情很繁瑣曠日廢時不是只有被告連受害者的家屬都還在那裡很冗長的陪你們演完這一齣因為我都認罪了我也都和解了"},{"start":13257.412,"end":13263.916,"text":"我就等判刑 你們還要把我再演一遍不是演一遍 陪你們演一齣國民參審的一齣大戲這樣他們就要再大無盡的折磨你知道大家都知道不是個人很煩的不是被告很煩的個人怕煩他就很煩的你還要叫他 我都認罪認罪你不要再給我搞這一套程序你說不行 我就是要搞這一套程序"},{"start":13286.73,"end":13292.542,"text":"因為我法官可以折抵十個案件的分案量這樣對不對沒有值得說回去好好再"},{"start":13300.372,"end":13317.545,"text":"謝謝林淑芬委員今天的詢問委員信賴我們職業法官希望我們職業法官來審理這對我們的肯定我非常謝謝有要件啊我們認罪了和解了被害者的家屬也認為不想要了是這個要件那你們為什麼硬要逼人家去走那一趟呢"},{"start":13325.641,"end":13341.946,"text":"這個要件是有前提的所以你們是不是制度面你們的折抵你們事務分配的制度有沒有問題這個制度是建立在法官會把個人自身的利益凌駕在當事人的利益之上因為即使是承認了案件國民法官"},{"start":13343.007,"end":13348.831,"text":"妳覺得你們的事務分配這樣的制度對嗎到判決的時候一個可以抵十件這樣對嗎我現在問妳說妳承認沒有辦法cover過來就知道這多麼的需要耗煩 多麼需要時間多麼的需要這個很多的心力和精力有哪個人負擔得起這樣的律師的費用"},{"start":13367.105,"end":13383.598,"text":"有哪幾個被害者的家屬負擔得起這樣子冗長的程序不要講被害被害家屬也是 更要為之檢討謝謝林書文委員不必就這樣今天詢問這樣就可以了今天因為林書文委員是最後一個不然是誰我都"},{"start":13384.598,"end":13400.9,"text":"不然誰我都不破例的我們今天所有的登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢 詢答結束那委員質詢時要求提供相關的資料或以順便答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會"},{"start":13401.801,"end":13422.606,"text":"那委員吳宗憲所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆那我們討論四項所列議案報告及詢答完畢那我們決議就另定期再繼續審查本次的會議進行到此結束我們現在散會"}]}},{"id":"165281","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165281","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe386498784a3735d7b906ee7c1e9a76e5aa983a90274432617f3b915669f50d0dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳玉珍","委員發言時間":"11:35:59 - 11:46:56","影片長度":"00:10:57","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:35:59+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T11:46:56+08:00","duration":657,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-4-20-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.6040937500000005,"end":6.494093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.06784375,"end":7.945343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.759093750000002,"end":12.602843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.602843750000002,"end":12.653468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.704093750000002,"end":17.445968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.96909375,"end":36.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.61596875,"end":37.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.78034375,"end":55.650968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.971593750000004,"end":56.072843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.42721875,"end":57.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.45659375,"end":58.367843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.469093750000006,"end":59.430968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.190343750000004,"end":61.455968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.72596875000001,"end":67.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.68284375,"end":95.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.43096875,"end":86.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.56596875000001,"end":86.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.71221875,"end":110.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.32596875,"end":132.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.31409375,"end":132.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.95534375,"end":138.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.20346875,"end":138.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.25409375,"end":138.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.37221875,"end":139.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.40596875,"end":138.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.80659375000002,"end":147.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.87284375000002,"end":152.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.96096875,"end":156.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.69846875000002,"end":163.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.70159375,"end":170.63721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.78596875000002,"end":164.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.21534375000002,"end":176.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.64971875,"end":172.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.75471875000002,"end":175.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.85159375,"end":178.66971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.99471875,"end":183.25971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.87159375000002,"end":185.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.93471875,"end":191.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.81971875000002,"end":192.18659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.18659375000001,"end":193.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.20346875,"end":192.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.52409375000002,"end":192.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.59159375000002,"end":198.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.68346875,"end":205.09596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.06284375,"end":234.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.85784375,"end":217.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.24971875000003,"end":220.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.96659375000002,"end":223.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.45159375,"end":224.95784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.74534375000002,"end":252.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.97034375,"end":261.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.10534375,"end":253.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.94784375,"end":262.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.52159375,"end":264.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.27659375,"end":267.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.84159375,"end":267.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.44909375000003,"end":268.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.63471875,"end":268.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.32659375000003,"end":272.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.25034375,"end":271.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.57909375,"end":276.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.21159375,"end":292.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.62284375,"end":290.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.64784375,"end":296.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.91721875,"end":298.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.85784375000003,"end":298.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.80284375,"end":302.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.31721875,"end":302.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.12284375,"end":309.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.46784375000004,"end":331.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.50159375000004,"end":311.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.26846875,"end":316.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.38846875,"end":355.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.81909375000004,"end":360.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.02159375,"end":357.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.34596875,"end":376.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.25471875000005,"end":402.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.58409375,"end":406.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.35596875000005,"end":404.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.60034375000004,"end":412.65846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.23659375000005,"end":421.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.92846875000004,"end":413.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.30721875,"end":419.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.70346875,"end":426.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.10346875000005,"end":428.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.14534375000005,"end":438.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.67971875,"end":440.95784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.50221875000005,"end":443.42159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.68346875000003,"end":459.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.87909375000004,"end":464.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.48159375,"end":464.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.63346875,"end":465.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.15659375,"end":466.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.04659375000006,"end":472.10909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.08846875,"end":482.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.25096875,"end":487.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.99284375,"end":488.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.13596875,"end":491.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.84034375000005,"end":490.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.11034375,"end":494.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.49409375000005,"end":493.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.37159375000005,"end":496.99971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.61596875000004,"end":496.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.49346875000003,"end":510.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.95534375000005,"end":518.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.2747187500001,"end":530.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.86784375,"end":533.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.8547187500001,"end":543.6084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.46909375,"end":549.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.0547187500001,"end":560.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.4328437500001,"end":564.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.7022187499999,"end":584.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.42909375,"end":592.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.32221875,"end":594.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.26284375,"end":609.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.97846875,"end":606.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.6909687500001,"end":614.0615937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.38221875,"end":632.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.4890937499999,"end":633.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.8897187499999,"end":645.7022187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.89784375,"end":636.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.8759687500001,"end":641.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.3984687500001,"end":654.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.30846875,"end":654.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.74721875,"end":655.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.1015937500001,"end":655.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.33784375,"end":655.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.9622187500001,"end":656.97471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.863,"end":7.817,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請主委請彭主委"},{"start":12.907,"end":34.242,"text":"我們繼續剛兩位委員有說那個凍結戶的這個部分的確現在詐騙集團實在是太猖獗了那凍結可能是一種方法那這中間誤傷無辜的這個部分怎麼來解決這個就是現在普遍一個這個誤傷潮很嚴重所以老百姓反應很多那我們想看這個怎麼解決那當然我本席來自金門關憲是我們金門鄉親被誤"},{"start":37.865,"end":51.84,"text":"防炸變成鎖帳所以被誤傷的這個部分怎麼來協助解決主要是現在金門鄉親很多戶頭被凍結很多銀行在金門他沒有設分行所以我們鄉親要來這邊解鎖的話必須要專門飛一趟台灣跑到台灣來解鎖"},{"start":56.565,"end":80.462,"text":"那這種這個的話這個詐騙我當然是支持說這個說這是一個方法我覺得是比較好的方法是不是說如果說哪些人曾經這個帳戶曾被使用這個使用者這個某某某人的這個帳戶那是不是他的相關帳戶除了凍結以外那當然現在等檢警掉油再做了"},{"start":80.882,"end":85.168,"text":"是不是讓這個有一些人可能是為了一點小利把自己的帳戶出賣給這個那是不是這樣的人就可以列入比較長久還是一段期間類似這種黑名單讓這個人不能再用那每一個要去出賣自己帳戶的人就會覺得就知道這個影響有多大"},{"start":98.504,"end":113.433,"text":"那當然在法令的刑法部我們也必須要修改啦詐騙的錢不管是金額大小不要說要幾百萬才來要求很重我們也當然要求很就可能金額少也要求很重的這個圖的這個圖形啦這個我們立法院法務部這邊也應該一起來做"},{"start":115.254,"end":120.595,"text":"那現在就是說 所以因為詐騙實在太傷絕 變成一個產業聽說現在 台灣現在黑道變很少啊大部分都去做詐騙 這個產業衝擊這個產業收入比較高嘛 還比較輕鬆 也不用動刀動槍啦那金管會可以做的部分以現在物商潮來講 我們想說 為我們金門鄉民講說有一些銀行在金門他們有設分行嘛"},{"start":138.579,"end":153.587,"text":"是不是統一某一個時間某一段時間哪一些分堂因為做的動作是一樣的只是說不同的分堂派員到金門去幫我們做解鎖的動作我跟你講這個非常非常的實際確實是剛才講這個問題"},{"start":156.829,"end":175.618,"text":"我們會來想辦法來解決 譬如說確實不太合理譬如說你真的叫一個金門鄉親為了這個東西做廢機嘛我覺得這是一個很特別就是說可能這個一定要我們會來想辦法跟銀行很多銀行不一定都要去就是說可以一起統合一下這個應該也不是那麼困難"},{"start":176.038,"end":198.096,"text":"我覺得這是有事實的需要我覺得很多銀行統合某一家去然後去他可以後端他們自己聯繫不只金門很多離島都會有這個需求這個問題是不是就是弄一個單一窗口部分的時間這個方法我們會來想你來想方法我想說這個確實是真的是要考慮到這點因為可能"},{"start":198.877,"end":225.76,"text":"他們在想的時候在都會區當然很方便到處有分行但是其實很多這個請你們幫我們研究一下什麼方法減輕鄉親的這個負擔第二個講到電子支付那我們進門電子支付這個普及您有提到說也希望這個電子支付平台不是剛這個之前十月份剛成立嗎那要有一個我們國我們也應該走向這個方向你有三個期許深化友善金融政策推動普惠金融要便利普及"},{"start":226.52,"end":247.074,"text":"還要進一步將服務拓展到離島偏鄉還有地區的商圈和景點這個我也是非常支持你也知道金門離大陸比較近我們常看到的進步我們都覺得很慚愧在電子支付方面第一個要有數據支撐請問你有沒有掌握我們金門縣的電子支付使用力和普及的速率"},{"start":247.634,"end":271.997,"text":"然後在這個全國啦或者說全國各縣市的這個排名是怎麼樣在各縣市裡頭是的確是說比如說都會去台北市啊高雄市這種普及率比較高還是說我這個不知道我就要請問你們有沒有對這些數據有掌握因為抱歉剛剛局長跟我說現在我們沒有這樣的一個數字有嗎沒有那你要這個是基本的嘛你如果沒有這樣東西你到底要怎麼去推"},{"start":272.657,"end":298.242,"text":"我們接下來可能因為工會成立了我覺得這是一個很好我想這個東西是不是做一個進一步開始做這方面的統計那我關心的是金門因為我本來想問你說金門在全國各縣市的電子支付的普及率和使用率是怎麼樣但你們連基本的數據都沒有你要怎麼去推這個所以你們可能要花一點看你要折成哪一個機關去推哪個機關呢對 就是工會剛剛已經成立了那是工會是民間嘛那政府要其實"},{"start":298.962,"end":315.396,"text":"或言信院金融言信院或什麼單位要去做這樣相關的這個就是說我們金融監理數據的掌握絕對是最基本這一點謝謝委員的指教我們會來趕快去看怎麼做好不好趕快怎麼做因為你要往前走當然主委的宣示很好但是沒有行動"},{"start":316.617,"end":335.581,"text":"連基本數據都沒有你就不知道各個地方要怎麼推我關心的是金門的部分我來提一下金門的部分我們去年底到金門金管會我們到金門去考察的時候我有說這個兩岸因為金門很多觀光客現在入客蠻多的有提到說這個兩岸的支付習慣不一樣電子支付的程序也不一樣"},{"start":336.141,"end":354.969,"text":"那銀行局喔就是相關單位要思考說在小山通港口對不對透過電我上次好像也有提過透過電子支付業者設窗口或其他對接讓兩岸旅客旅客在旅遊方面的付款上面更便利啦你們有沒有相關的研究後續啦我們去年考察以後我不是請你們去做相關的研究嗎"},{"start":357.937,"end":376.284,"text":"沒有沒關係我把我的金門的期待說出來你們後面去做出來給我們另外一個就是也有人提議過我在金門日報社群有看到金夏這個是財政部金融研訓院有做過也許你們一起跟他請教一下金夏如果能實行跨境支付和數字"},{"start":378.025,"end":406.407,"text":"資產兼理沙盒就可以為兩岸的旅遊和零售業帶來巨大便利那旅客搭船車門到金門或金門到廈門就不用很繁瑣的換匯只要綁定一個區域穩定幣的數位錢包就可以完成購物住宿的支付那金融機構透過這個區塊鏈來做清算形成這個安全透明可追蹤的交易系統你們可不可以請做這方面的研究我剛所提到的這兩點應該應該都是一個可行的方向也可以促進電子支付還有這種跨境支付"},{"start":406.707,"end":428.2,"text":"我想為這個我們整個國人研議一些可信的方法我們都可以來思考是但是因為金門地方比較小離大陸又近也算一個區域可以做一個研究的部分就是說一個很多事情比如說以前山通小山通在金門是先市先行很多基本算是一個"},{"start":429.541,"end":454.185,"text":"相對封閉又好實驗的地方啦我想在電子資助方面因為人數又少因為在金門縣試行推這個東西也可以作為你們未來這些一些經驗的這個參考啦研究評估我們絕對是是不是去研究評估哪個請哪個單位做研究評估我也跟你提出參考研訓院有做過這樣的相關資訊你們可以在那個基礎上繼續研究啦那什麼時候你可以給我這些答案呢"},{"start":454.525,"end":479.405,"text":"就是一個就是讓鄉親不用再奔波跑來開防詐這個銀行的帳戶我想我回去了解一下他剛剛委員的建議還有說我們有什麼其他更好的方法我會盡快可能可能我三天之內給委員一個一個方向看你到底打算什麼時候怎麼做這個第一點第二點那個有關電子支付這個跨境啊這個監理沙盒什麼各部分這個研究什麼時候可以給我呢"},{"start":479.605,"end":496.284,"text":"要開始做啦不要因為你要數據嘛這些都要有了嘛這個可能我們稍微評估一下並回覆給委員因為這部分那多久要給我這個答案呢就是說我說3天後3天後把這些答案都先給我你打算怎麼做就好把那個把它實成的大概要多久跟委員"},{"start":497.104,"end":517.089,"text":"對後續我們再來追蹤這個部分然後我們再來講這個講到這個我們基本地區這個需求以後我們來講這個詐騙詐騙這個猖獗太子集團什麼這些我知道各個部會都跨部會在這個開會但是我覺得金管會可能也還要負起再更大的承擔更大的責任不然他們這樣子"},{"start":519.97,"end":529.855,"text":"這個這麼多錢進來啊去買這些不管是豪宅豪車啊或者讓讓社會大眾都非常不能接受啊覺得這個第一個詐騙實在是太猖獗了然後在這一種這種剝奪感太重了然後又覺得我們的政府那當然有的不是你們責任比如說我們看到說我們看到說這個法院啊給他這個交保這15萬了5萬哇詐騙這麼多錢這個"},{"start":544.982,"end":563.635,"text":"這個這麼少教育 這樣不是你們問題今天因為這個法務部沒有在這裡這個當然是正常老百姓都看不下去那這樣以後誰去從事正當的工作但是防治洗錢做 我知道你們很努力那要再加上金融發展方面也是兩方面要要兼顧啦 這要兼顧也是很辛苦啦"},{"start":564.756,"end":590.827,"text":"但是這個部分雖然辛苦不是不能不是不要做還是要去努力對於那個我們國內在推這個亞洲資產金融這個資產管理中心那現在很多山寨版的我看媒體有報導很多山寨版的什麼家族什麼公司家族什麼財富公司什麼管理公司什麼這一類的這個東西的話你是不是必須要在這個部分可能在數據的研究上或是相關的然後公佈"},{"start":593.428,"end":613.869,"text":"揭露訊息上面讓各個銀行或者讓老百姓更能了解這樣子也可以從詐騙可以某個階段可以斬斷那個詐騙不然老百姓會相信會相信這件事好像非常有財富然後用這個身份來詐騙詐騙一般的民眾這問題是不是有什麼的做法"},{"start":614.451,"end":632.907,"text":"不過剛剛委員提到就是說就是這些的一些防詐的範例跟提醒我們這個謝謝委員的提醒我們會來做剛剛提到就是說其實任何一個案件就是給我們一個教訓我想我們各個部會在防洗前都非常的認真努力只是說"},{"start":633.988,"end":654.036,"text":"既然被突破了我們就要深自檢討我們真的要好好的想就我們掌管的金流部分我們真的會好好來檢討這件事情看看從中間可以得到什麼教訓可以來修補或是來改善我們現行的作法立法院當然也會在法律的修改方面出力像這種什麼詐騙子交保多少錢這種我們也是看不下去但是你們還是要努力尤其在資訊的揭露方面好嗎是的謝謝主委謝謝謝偉"}]}},{"id":"165322","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165322","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe343a42bebb4373cb2b62a46119727b9b985b487800f2765301257d1c12132fb9b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"12:37:11 - 12:57:42","影片長度":"00:20:31","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T12:37:11+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:57:42+08:00","duration":1231,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.5115937500000003,"end":5.228468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.98784375,"end":6.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.77596875,"end":12.535343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.923468750000001,"end":18.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.981593750000002,"end":21.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.27221875,"end":43.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.58534375,"end":47.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.24721875,"end":100.70721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.97284375000001,"end":102.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.66471875,"end":104.48721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.04846875000001,"end":116.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.45159375,"end":124.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.34909375000001,"end":131.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.38159375,"end":142.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.91159375,"end":146.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.57346875000002,"end":165.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.91221875000002,"end":178.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.00721875000002,"end":180.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.33596875,"end":185.70659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.26346875000002,"end":189.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.36409375000002,"end":198.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.99971875,"end":203.49284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.66159375,"end":206.80034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.69471875000002,"end":209.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.00659375,"end":222.81471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.18159375000002,"end":229.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.62784375,"end":231.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.12971875000002,"end":237.98534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.98096875000002,"end":240.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.69784375,"end":258.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.63596875,"end":260.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.68221875,"end":264.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.66471875,"end":279.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.32909375,"end":286.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.39534375,"end":288.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.45409375,"end":290.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.80409375,"end":292.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.40721875,"end":292.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.43659375000004,"end":294.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.02284375,"end":296.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.42346875000004,"end":303.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.36721875,"end":308.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.69159375000004,"end":310.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.29471875,"end":311.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.20159375000003,"end":336.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.04159375,"end":337.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.79221875,"end":346.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.02846875,"end":340.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.63909375000003,"end":350.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.96346875,"end":354.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.40596875,"end":355.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.57034375,"end":355.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.87409375000004,"end":357.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.13971875000004,"end":358.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.35471875,"end":359.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.87346875000003,"end":361.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.35846875000004,"end":363.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.29909375,"end":363.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.48471875,"end":363.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.97409375,"end":364.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.37909375000004,"end":366.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.12971875000005,"end":372.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.16659375,"end":378.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.41471875,"end":385.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.65409375,"end":387.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.45971875000004,"end":389.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.06284375,"end":392.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.26471875000004,"end":397.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.71159375,"end":397.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.75784375,"end":398.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.46221875000003,"end":421.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.93971875000005,"end":439.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.31221875000006,"end":457.79909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.50784375,"end":461.98409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.06409375000004,"end":469.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.18096875000003,"end":490.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.78971875,"end":495.80159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.27409375,"end":497.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.28221875,"end":506.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.36096875000004,"end":512.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.0647187500001,"end":536.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.92159375,"end":546.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.59534375,"end":547.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.7722187500001,"end":550.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.61534375,"end":554.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.33221875,"end":558.3572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.94784375,"end":563.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.8247187500001,"end":568.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.08971875,"end":574.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.8272187499999,"end":580.5984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.34096875,"end":584.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.0872187500001,"end":585.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.40346875,"end":588.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.62221875,"end":593.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.82846875,"end":601.4053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.72596875,"end":602.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.9197187500001,"end":608.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.03284375,"end":610.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.9265937499999,"end":617.0990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.65596875,"end":619.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.29284375,"end":621.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.45284375,"end":628.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.31221875,"end":632.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.82659375,"end":635.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.02846875,"end":646.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.5078437500001,"end":652.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.8572187500001,"end":657.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.69159375,"end":662.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.8303437500001,"end":665.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.4709687500001,"end":669.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.7490937500002,"end":679.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.49846875,"end":685.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.2022187500002,"end":704.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":705.0009687500001,"end":714.0459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.5690937500001,"end":718.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.31096875,"end":726.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.92159375,"end":734.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.7765937500001,"end":740.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":740.82659375,"end":745.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.8259687500001,"end":749.3147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":748.40346875,"end":755.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.84534375,"end":757.0434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.0478437500001,"end":756.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":757.0434687500001,"end":763.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":763.86096875,"end":768.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.40034375,"end":774.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.70721875,"end":777.1584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":777.7490937500002,"end":778.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":780.7022187500002,"end":781.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":783.58784375,"end":786.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.1147187500001,"end":793.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":794.0503437500001,"end":799.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":799.70346875,"end":807.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":808.1072187500001,"end":809.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.6003437500001,"end":815.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":816.6797187500001,"end":826.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":830.0615937500002,"end":830.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":830.1797187500001,"end":830.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":830.23034375,"end":830.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":831.36096875,"end":832.2890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":832.39034375,"end":832.4072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":832.4072187500001,"end":834.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":832.60971875,"end":839.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":841.04721875,"end":842.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":842.32971875,"end":846.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.9153437500001,"end":848.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":848.0503437500001,"end":849.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":849.7040937500001,"end":850.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":850.7334687500002,"end":853.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":853.6697187500001,"end":856.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":857.8715937500001,"end":868.8403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":869.59971875,"end":871.9115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":872.70471875,"end":886.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":886.93034375,"end":889.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":890.3559687500001,"end":894.4734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":898.9453437500001,"end":899.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":900.9365937500002,"end":902.4890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":903.4678437500002,"end":913.9978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":916.05659375,"end":920.1572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":921.3215937500001,"end":922.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":923.2959687500002,"end":924.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.28721875,"end":930.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":930.61971875,"end":931.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":931.64909375,"end":933.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":935.88471875,"end":937.5047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":935.96909375,"end":936.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":938.23034375,"end":943.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":943.2759687500002,"end":946.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":946.54971875,"end":951.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":951.5109687500001,"end":958.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":958.80096875,"end":963.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":963.9140937500001,"end":968.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":969.1284687500001,"end":970.4109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":971.3390937500001,"end":977.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":977.93721875,"end":981.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":981.8015937500002,"end":994.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":994.93034375,"end":1000.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1000.7859687500002,"end":1003.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1002.37221875,"end":1004.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1004.0259687500002,"end":1005.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1005.19034375,"end":1008.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1008.6665937500002,"end":1024.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1009.15596875,"end":1010.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1022.79096875,"end":1025.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1025.2884687500002,"end":1025.5753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1025.5753437500002,"end":1025.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1025.77784375,"end":1043.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1043.9522187500002,"end":1045.7915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1045.0997187500002,"end":1047.9009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1047.54659375,"end":1049.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1050.3984687500001,"end":1057.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1058.7178437500002,"end":1061.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1061.02971875,"end":1067.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1067.54346875,"end":1070.9522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1067.5772187500002,"end":1081.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1082.83221875,"end":1083.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1083.3047187500001,"end":1084.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1084.11471875,"end":1091.9278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1089.3797187500002,"end":1090.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1092.0797187500002,"end":1093.4972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1093.5815937500001,"end":1095.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1095.91034375,"end":1105.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1104.6009687500002,"end":1108.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1108.9378437500002,"end":1112.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1114.1522187500002,"end":1120.3622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1115.2322187500001,"end":1122.3028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1122.33659375,"end":1128.9009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1130.4703437500002,"end":1131.6009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1134.06471875,"end":1135.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1135.9715937500002,"end":1139.1609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1139.8359687500001,"end":1141.2872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1140.5447187500001,"end":1146.0459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1141.35471875,"end":1141.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1147.24409375,"end":1168.5909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1168.9453437500001,"end":1174.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1174.51409375,"end":1185.3309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1185.53346875,"end":1188.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1188.89159375,"end":1190.3765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1190.56221875,"end":1193.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1194.4603437500002,"end":1197.1265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1197.46409375,"end":1199.2190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1197.48096875,"end":1197.8184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1200.29909375,"end":1204.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1204.61909375,"end":1207.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1207.6903437500002,"end":1209.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1210.2890937500001,"end":1213.6978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1214.5247187500001,"end":1217.4947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1218.00096875,"end":1219.1822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1220.09346875,"end":1227.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1220.11034375,"end":1221.7303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1228.0415937500002,"end":1228.3622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1228.7672187500002,"end":1230.38721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.537,"end":12.278,"text":"好 謝謝主席 是不是要請我們洪部長有請洪部長蘇分委員好"},{"start":13.107,"end":36.605,"text":"部長在政策上面最近拋出了一個小孩的家庭也可以聘外籍家庭幫傭行政院在研議就是說只要現行的家庭幫傭每個月5000元的就業安定費提高到8000元就可以以價值量大概朝著這個方向去開放"},{"start":37.225,"end":46.63,"text":"你覺得勞動部在行政院的指示之下你會這樣子做嗎我想我們都是綜合的在評估中"},{"start":47.524,"end":73.98,"text":"綜合式評估在這裡我讓我提醒你幾個問題婦女薪資還有勞政發布的新聞稿反對他們認為放寬聘僱家庭幫傭這樣的人力市場只能加惠少數富貴人家凸顯社會不公平的現象會使現行公共托育服務倒退回家庭化過度市場化的模式"},{"start":74.44,"end":97.537,"text":"好 我就我剛才講行政院指示的就業安定費用從五千提高到八千可以以價質量這一句話來講這一句話顯然以價質量就不是每個人可以負擔得起的嘛就不是要讓每個人負擔得起嘛就是為了某個經濟能力以上的人在開這一個方便門的嘛不是嗎 這一句話"},{"start":102.691,"end":131.137,"text":"就業安定費要繳八千喔因為剛剛委員在講到一些民間團體的聲音我們其實也有聽到也有看到所以現在就是各種不同的聲音因為的確有人講到他的需求然後各種不同的聲音但就綜合在屏幕那有人是誰啊現在行政院講的是一個月就業安定費八千以價值量他就不是要讓大家來用的嘛以價值量就是要限縮在用得起的人才能用嘛"},{"start":132.438,"end":152.641,"text":"你覺得這樣的政策會是一個好的政策嗎你的政策目標鎖定的是有消費能力有經濟能力高的那一些婦女嗎那我現在就再跟你提醒第二件事當全世界所有的國家都在對公共政策就是在"},{"start":153.382,"end":177.789,"text":"解決少子化幫女性幫年輕人的家庭解決托育的問題的時候都是往國家幫忙養的方向不是嗎我們也是如此號稱啊但是當我們也跟著全世界潮流再往國家幫忙養的方向的時候怎麼會突然轉彎變成孩子自己找外擁帶自己養"},{"start":181.343,"end":197.206,"text":"你覺得這樣的轉彎適合嗎那我再提醒你第三件事移工政策的最核心是什麼移工政策的最核心是它只能是補充原則絕對不能夠產生替代你們說你們要做政策評估你心裡面也有數這個東西會不會搶走了國內從業人員的工作"},{"start":210.066,"end":220.553,"text":"大家都知道即便是補充原則他也會產生另一種效果對國內的員工衝擊很大是什麼這30年來你知道的部長是什麼即便是補充原則對國內的勞工還是產生很大的衝擊是什麼勞動條件上面勞動條件簡單來講薪資的滑坡薪資的滑坡"},{"start":239.462,"end":258.694,"text":"低薪化本來我們是有國內的就業人員如果你政策適當你不是補充你搶走了國內不管是家庭幫傭的家事服務的國內居家托育的或是保姆在宅這個托育的"},{"start":259.693,"end":282.487,"text":"或是幼兒園的 幼兒園的生意也都一樣啊本來是這樣的 而且每個保姆每一個人都要有合格的證照要上過課 要訓練當國內的托育是這樣子專業化在前進的時候你們外籍移工的開放有可能要證照嗎會跟保姆一樣要證照嗎"},{"start":287.441,"end":303.201,"text":"委員這真的是在總體的評估之中欸啊 抽屜裡面喔總體的評估之中總體的評估 你先就我問就教於你的你提一下你個人的看法 回應一下"},{"start":305.751,"end":314.822,"text":"任何外國人力的開放與否的政策當然都要...那我先問你一句話啦提供家事勞動服務的還有保母的 顧小孩的還有幼兒園從業的你覺得這個產業 這一些產業"},{"start":324.014,"end":345.915,"text":"服務業支援服務業從業人員有多少在家庭幫傭家事勞動托兒育兒這個領域總的加起來的總就業人口數是多少你告訴我清潔人員保姆家事服務家事勞動有多少人有多少就業人口"},{"start":347.657,"end":372.051,"text":"家事服務大概是數千到萬吧你有沒有聽到家事服務數千到一萬家事服務 家事服務的部分家事服務保姆餒對 保姆不是家事服務我現在問你重的啊重的我可能要另外再講家庭幫傭他要來取代誰的工作啊難道不是保姆嗎不是家事服務嗎家事勞動家庭幫傭啊"},{"start":374.232,"end":398.576,"text":"然後小孩就從公共領域公共托育回到家庭但沒有衝擊到幼兒園沒有衝擊到托兒那個保母的這個托兒產業嗎衝擊多大我先問你是從業人員有多少目前詳細的數字我可能手邊沒有好我現在告訴你"},{"start":399.54,"end":419.953,"text":"保姆清潔人員等其他服務業還有所謂的資源服務業從這一些來看家庭幫傭所替代掉的從業的女性比例這一些從業女性大概佔整體女性的從業人口的有人推估是7.7%所以推估起來總的"},{"start":422.114,"end":439.232,"text":"女性就業人數是510萬以7.7%去推估從業人員有三四十萬三四十萬保母家庭幫傭清潔人員還有這個公共托育托兒這一些總的加起來幾十萬"},{"start":441.964,"end":469.626,"text":"你可能會說我可能人家這樣講法是高推估那也不管兩萬也很多三萬保姆三萬也很多人家剛才就是這樣在質疑你當初開放這個長照的外傭外籍移工不是也是這樣推估嗎那我現在也是這樣推估給你看嘛所以在這樣子裡面會受到這幾十萬的人的就業會受到多大的衝擊我現在還在講喔"},{"start":471.226,"end":495.428,"text":"沒有這個政策以前 你們還沒有開放嘛現在評估嘛 沒有開放以前很多職業婦女仰賴就是她二度就業就去當終點費的清潔或是到府服務的保姆他們去取得證照所以這是從業人員都是中高齡的台灣婦女然後如果你們把這個門檻鬆綁以後呢大家都去請外籍幫佣的話這個會失業的啊"},{"start":498.725,"end":518.43,"text":"再來我剛剛講孩子留在家裡面衝擊的也是幼兒園托兒所托嬰中心也是女性衝擊的也是女性再來我剛剛講的從業人員要證照你現在把他外籍化了他連語言能力都不一定好你顯然你們覺得看顧孩子就是吃喝拉撒睡"},{"start":519.21,"end":545.856,"text":"整個國家在整個公共托育還有這個保母上照顧幼兒上我們都專業化的往證照制度在推結果國家在前進的時候你們如果政策轉彎專業化 證照化在轉彎那你們就是認為說啊這個幼兒只需要照顧他嬰兒吃喝拉撒睡幼兒看顧他不要跌倒不要有危險這樣子而已嗎"},{"start":548.938,"end":554.279,"text":"語言文化上的隔閡也不重要然後再來呢"},{"start":556.363,"end":582.832,"text":"我們在講說這個經濟能力誰可以可以負擔經濟能力誰可以負擔你們以價質量你們已經宣稱了這不是給一般婦女用的光沒有聘僱的成本你就要先繳8000元的就業安定基金那再加上聘僱的我現在在講外籍移工不是源源不絕你還要產業界在搶"},{"start":585.331,"end":600.837,"text":"還有跟這個長照看護的在搶移工的價格是不便宜的不便宜的再加上你的就業安定基金 一個月不是3萬 4萬啦 最少5萬但是呢什麼人負擔不去 每個月5萬 8萬 什麼人負擔不去保證什麼人負擔不去"},{"start":613.956,"end":635.098,"text":"金字塔頂端的家庭一個月可以花八萬金字塔頂端哪有一個國家的誘餌開放家庭幫傭 你是服務你的國家政策是服務有錢人而已這樣的政策是最好的政策嗎還直接說我要以價值量"},{"start":637.079,"end":665.206,"text":"你們要 你們瓦解了這個公共托育的政策大家都大肚子餓 去請一個人來顧公共托育瓦解誰受災受災的當然是那個經濟能力負擔不起不要以為你們不會衝擊到產業衝擊到婦女 中高齡婦女的就業你們還衝擊到產業而你們還說你們在評估 我覺得你們就是要 因為這麼多年來一直都是要啦"},{"start":667.846,"end":679.355,"text":"再來我再教你部長你覺得一個個人僱主個人聘僱一個家事個人聘僱的家事幫傭或是其實外籍移工看護的也一樣"},{"start":680.566,"end":703.133,"text":"作為一個個人僱主他真的有能力把勞動條件給看守好嗎更不要講他的勞動環境你可以給人家一個單獨的獨立的然後勞動條件你的勞動條件要怎麼定難道要放任跟看護長照一樣嗎24小時全年無休給那麼一點點的加班費就買斷了他"},{"start":705.334,"end":733.971,"text":"當成21世紀把他當成現代奴隸一樣的驅使嗎你們如果去你們對他的勞動條件要怎麼把關你有辦法把關在私領域在私宅裡面有辦法把關嗎勞動條件你要怎麼設定你沒有辦法設定要再一次的步入我們長照長照看護的外籍移工的那種處境嗎你的想像是什麼你就這一點你來談談看"},{"start":738.038,"end":762.71,"text":"這個相關的政策的確各方有不太一樣的意見然後不太一樣的需求所以我們現在針對這些不同的各方少數的各方啦少數你要忘了講兩個字然後我們針對這些各方的需求就是在做評估跟各種可能效應等等的評估目前的情況就是這樣從長照看護裡面我們已經看到很多了就是說大家玩家衝突"},{"start":764.182,"end":785.698,"text":"脅迫雇主 逼迫雇主說你非得同意我轉換雇主不可那我現在在問你說 家庭幫傭也一樣啊是不是可能成為移工轉換行業的跳板有沒有可能 管理上的漏洞啊有沒有可能 阿洗澡這要再算什麼 要再換駕 要再炒"},{"start":787.145,"end":815.086,"text":"大家都覺得這是外籍移工的問題 可是事實上是嗎你如果沒有訂出好的勞動條件然後人家產業產業上虛空集啊然後在那裡人家用好的薪資而且固定的工時而且要符合勞基法的規定人家就挖走了啊然後流動性也會跟著跳啊跟搶 流動性高啊"},{"start":816.718,"end":826.988,"text":"不是嗎 柏中 你都不敢說 你一句話就不敢說你都不敢說 你都知道啦 心知肚明可是呢 你們會不會還是要繼續要這樣做我曉得我問你這樣好了 我這樣做好了第一個你說要做評估 請問你們產業衝擊評估有沒有做了 委託了沒"},{"start":841.107,"end":868.283,"text":"就是各方面我們都在評估你誰評估啊 你要專業去評估還是你們自己評估 怎麼評估有些部分我們會跟衛福部討論第二個 有沒有做過性別平等評估有沒有做出符合兒童最佳利益的評估你難道不需要嗎你這樣子交給外籍移工來吃拉撒碎的顧小孩跟我們朝向證照制度專業化的顧小孩 保姆都要證照"},{"start":869.639,"end":893.918,"text":"你這樣子沒有損及兒童最佳利益嗎你在性別上面對我們二度就業的婦女就業難道沒有衝擊嗎你們在性平上產業衝擊上要怎麼評估你說你們評估你們怎麼評估不是都要說我要做評估我要做評估五個字不是你們要請誰做要怎麼做要做哪些評估"},{"start":901.155,"end":924.557,"text":"現在就是綜合在評估中你不敢講你也回答不出來連說你們有沒有做這一些評估好那我問你你認不認為需要做兒童最佳福利的這個評估你認不認為應該要做是不是符合兒童最佳福利啊要不要做這種評估我覺得各個層面都必須考慮"},{"start":925.316,"end":933.253,"text":"好 你繼續打高空 你講不出來好 沒關係 我知道因為真的是回答不出來啦"},{"start":936.225,"end":963.127,"text":"我也是傻眼啦那我問你別的問題好了現在呢旅遊業開放中階移工那以薪資門檻三萬二要求要有華語能力技能資格啊大家知道旅宿業這個不是地帶啦這補充啦因為沒人要走嘛但是最怕衝擊的就是薪資衝擊嘛但是在這種狀況裡面我要問你我也時間有限我只問你一件事情啦"},{"start":963.968,"end":968.235,"text":"你知道旅宿業大家流行一句話 整本店都要倒了啦都要倒了啦"},{"start":972.681,"end":993.121,"text":"你在審核他缺工的相關資訊的時候要不要審核他的營運狀況那特別是大家都知道台灣旅宿業的環境不好經營不善如果倒閉了這個移工被迫要失業然後這些失業因為關閉倒閉的移工你的管理配套是什麼"},{"start":994.966,"end":1005.514,"text":"跟委員說明第一個我們目前其實目前開放的比較是在這個觀光旅館跟飯店旅館對啊那這個觀光旅館跟飯店現在倒閉潮很多嗎倒閉潮當然這個企業的狀況我想"},{"start":1013.88,"end":1028.258,"text":"目前他有這個缺工的需求包括我們在我們自己的調查你也看出他有這個這個缺工尤其是比較基層的工作的缺工的需求是有的所以我說補充原則不是替代啊是台灣人不要做嘛所以補充啊沒關係啊"},{"start":1028.999,"end":1057.165,"text":"但我現在在說的是倒閉潮倒閉潮可是你申請了一大堆外籍移工進來這個旅館這個飯店倒閉以後這些移工的安置的配套未來的管理配套是什麼你總不能叫他在那裡漫長的等待吧當然如果這個企業遇到了比方說經營不善的狀況無法再經營下去那當然這個移工就變成是我們要來協助全力協助他轉換"},{"start":1058.926,"end":1081.318,"text":"就慢慢的等待這樣子嗎其實不是慢慢等待因為接下來其實我們也把現在在技術能力的需求給打開了所以我們認為對於轉換也會比較有利所以你叫下游去幫他擦屁股那你為什麼不再上游你需不需要在他申請的時候要對於他的營運狀況也要一併考量從上游源頭管理嘛"},{"start":1082.881,"end":1112.012,"text":"不用嗎然後大家進來然後一直管理不善的營運不善的也申請了可是做沒幾個月就倒了你還要幫他處理跟委員說明第一個當然這部分這個飯店業他的管理或他的經營這部分可能很難是勞動部這邊來去說我要對你設一個我現在講是他要申請外籍移工你在審查的時候要不要框一個要件"},{"start":1114.198,"end":1128.412,"text":"我不知道這是不是一定要啦但是我想到的是倒閉的時候要怎麼處理就算要檢視的話我們可能要跟交通部一起討論那我再問你如果這個倒閉非自願性失業的移工那他會不會適用這個那個失業給付失業給付目前是沒有的因為失業給付主要是來自救保"},{"start":1141.473,"end":1168.005,"text":"所以我才講作為一個個人雇主是不是有能力cover起來他其實連勞動條件都很難去cover起來所以個人雇主我們一直在主張個人雇主的這一個制度要不要落日作為外籍移工的雇主從長照到現在你要再開放我們都一直在討論說要不要落日結果你們一直在討論要不要再開更多的門"},{"start":1168.985,"end":1193.272,"text":"那個人聘僱外籍移工的僱主他的能力就是這麼的有限他就是在勞動條件上沒有辦法去支撐然後呢你如果再叫他講說如果失業在那裡漫長等待對人家如果一般勞工也是不公平的啊那在這種狀況裡面你叫他救保費用你也繼續繳幫這些移工也繳那是不可能的啊"},{"start":1194.605,"end":1207.123,"text":"對不對 我問你啦 廠工有沒有繳救保沒有廠工的老闆也沒有因為廠工不會 他們就三年一聘不會突然倒了嘛廠工沒有算 因為他補充人力 所以他沒有算在救保裡面"},{"start":1207.865,"end":1227.61,"text":"對啊少數嘛就是基本上還算穩定的嘛但是飯店旅宿可能那不穩性定很高你要去想一想啦稍微要想一下好 重點是剛才在講的只為少數人服務的那一個開放那個門要好好的想啦 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165321","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165321","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe396b8329c939b84b88abc180ec3481d0285b487800f2765303e2c817e391698a95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"12:58:06 - 13:05:19","影片長度":"00:07:13","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T12:58:06+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T13:05:19+08:00","duration":433,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.48596875,"end":11.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.04971875,"end":15.066593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.066593750000003,"end":167.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.68846875,"end":166.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.38034375,"end":173.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.60721875000002,"end":180.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.45034375,"end":185.70659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.03159375,"end":195.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.71784375000001,"end":206.80034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.64846875,"end":211.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.73221875000002,"end":215.22096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.65159375000002,"end":214.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.30534375000002,"end":220.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.17346875,"end":226.20659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.30784375000002,"end":226.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.52721875,"end":231.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.38284375,"end":330.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.54909375,"end":338.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.80096875000004,"end":350.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.39534375,"end":342.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.74471875,"end":347.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.67659375,"end":403.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.23784375,"end":426.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.85034375000004,"end":427.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.47034375000004,"end":430.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.23784375,"end":432.40221875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.52,"end":9.751,"text":"好 謝謝我們主席劉朝偉我先請我們鄭次長鄭次長請"},{"start":16.023,"end":40.451,"text":"市長您好 我先呼應一下剛才那個曾天才委員他在想說請你們了解一下運動現在在國內的大學原住民的一個比例我想他最主要的意思也是希望就是說你們了解這樣一個比例在運動的推動上可能又比較會有一些支撐然後在原住民的一個運動發展上也會相對的更為更有效率我想這是他的意思"},{"start":41.491,"end":58.599,"text":"那接下來本席就針對這個水域運動的還有海域運動的這個部分來跟您這邊做一個請教那我關心的是兩個方向就運動部成立之後那接下來的這個亞奧運水域或海域項目的一個備戰的情形"},{"start":59.139,"end":86.253,"text":"那第二個部分是如何將水域海域的運動呢從少數選手的項目拓展為普及化的一個全民運動那兼顧了競技成績跟大眾的參與那這個是我想運動部很重要的一個任務全民參與是本席一直非常重視的所以首先在選手備戰的這個層面我們都知道我們的海洋環境湖泊河川常常都是我們引以為傲的但是呢我們在水域跟"},{"start":86.753,"end":113.784,"text":"海域運動的這個項目裡面呢我們其實是還有很大一段路可以去追啦所以目前呢那個運動部統整建置要擬建置的一些大型水域運動場地的一個量能可不可以就你們目前推動的水域海域運動的類型跟本行說明場館的量能建設的計畫跟進度還有預計啟用的時間回應的時候就精簡那如果有比較"},{"start":114.905,"end":136.204,"text":"细节的内容你会后再提供给本席第二个部分是在技术选手培训上运动部是不是有跟各县市政府学校社区俱乐部合作来推出水海域运动的新兴项目目前有没有培训的梯队教练的队伍还有设备补助跟社区场地补助的一些规划"},{"start":136.884,"end":162.931,"text":"那如果有的話會後詳細的細節麻煩給本席那第三個部分是如何將這些備戰的項目跟全民的參與做個連結我們知道運動部還有亞奧運項目其實很重要就是說我們有機會得獎或有機會參與它其實是可以帶動全民的一個參與那你們如何來推動社區型的一個水域運動的據點你們有哪一些策略那目前有沒有哪一些縣市獲得一些補助"},{"start":163.431,"end":183.444,"text":"還有場地的類型是如何各位精簡的做一個回應 謝謝幫委員 我想在前瞻計畫有16處包括像澎湖的帆船訓練基地還有我在任內的時候補助安隆溪的人工氣流賽道2億這部分都是我們在對水域的支持那現在我們在構建計畫的擴充海域的這個部分應該是目前也是比較"},{"start":184.364,"end":200.44,"text":"麻煩的一件事情對不對我們現在在公建計畫的擴充方面我們有提出在這個草案我們現在在跟部裡面討論完之後我們就會送行政院來做一個基本上的爭取本席這邊也提醒一下就是海域的設施這個部分那也還有本島本島海域的這個運動的一個發展"},{"start":203.423,"end":230.916,"text":"可能部裡面也是要更積極的來做一些作為好不好包委我們大概已經盤點出17個據點可以來做推動最後可以提供給本席看你們目前據點一個選擇跟推動的方向這個方向但是經費我們還在爭取當中至於第二題跟第三題我是不是請署長這邊來回應好嗎因為時間關係我先往下然後待會署長再一併回應好不好簡單的講就是已經在進行當中我們1月1號開始您第二跟第三題我們已經在規劃了"},{"start":232.558,"end":250.933,"text":"那但是相關的細節會後要提供給本席喔 可以嗎好 還有另外你們有除了菁英選手的一個參與以外呢那全民的參與本席這邊也要為大家來請命啦那你們是不是有規劃跟訂定一些補助辦法可以降低大眾進入的門檻講直白一點"},{"start":252.895,"end":281.812,"text":"就是器具型的這個東西你們如何透過一些組織平台能夠讓這個部分的設施設備更為普及讓大家都有機會來參與因為本席在參與的過程當中我覺得光是這個器具的門檻其實是很大的一個阻礙那第二個部分是還有在解決海岸湖泊區域場地資源不均或相關的設備落後的這個部分你們如何來規劃提升水域的設施"},{"start":283.553,"end":311.531,"text":"這個不管是你們或者是相關的這個單位我覺得你們應該更積極來處理那如果細節不是很清楚的部分我當然會後願意再提供相關的資訊給部裡面那另外水域安全的這個風險氣候海況的這個變化因素運動部你們是不是可以主動的來跟交通部來會商那就水域海域修正現行的法規並建立相關的一個指引"},{"start":311.991,"end":326.736,"text":"然後讓開放水域的運動能夠更為普遍要不然我們都常常卡在一些法規上或者是一些其實不是本體重要的一些障礙上那反倒阻礙了這個運動的發展"},{"start":329.617,"end":349.92,"text":"報告委員您講的方向都是現在全民運輸在想要規劃的方向我是不是建議您可以邀請署長找個時間去拜會您在您的辦公室聊一下有啦 那個署長也很積極都有給我們一些相關的訊息那對於本席這邊提出來他也很努力在推動那當然本席也會給一些意見啦那署長我是不是您就簡單回應目前的一個進度好不好"},{"start":351.451,"end":380.018,"text":"謝謝委員這邊特別關心海域跟水域的我們首先還是會先建立一個跨部會的一個平台然後板點的部分目前同步在進行當中然後有些專業人才或者是海洋運動地圖的部分我們現在也正在要納入明年115年度我們要趕快來處理的一個方向然後有一個海洋運動的體驗這部分我們之後還是會結合我們明年初會跟縣市政府這邊來合作要建立海洋運動中心這樣子的一個概念"},{"start":380.678,"end":403.471,"text":"之后有些相关的资本们的经费可以进去改善环境或者是买一些相关的一个器材这部分来协助推动另外海洋的一些安全教育或者是之后有些运动观光这样一个可能性我们这边会研拟一个很完整的实施计划草案的部分在讨论的过程当中在这个过程我这边再随时跟委员这边来做一个报告"},{"start":404.355,"end":427.163,"text":"好的 謝謝署長 那很高興聽到這個海洋運動地圖其實是可以做一個未來整備的一個指引那至少有這個部分在本島的海洋運動的一個發展包括離島現在已有的 其實台灣應該是非常具有這方面的一個潛力那我們期待在不久的將來我們的海水域運動可以成為台灣在發展亞奧運跟全民的一個主軸 好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝林建齊委員 次長請回座"}]}},{"id":"165317","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165317","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3e1d1ed2bfa61313d8abc180ec3481d02cc7208a858208f5ccf300a208d967c955ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"12:31:42 - 12:37:47","影片長度":"00:06:05","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T12:31:42+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:37:47+08:00","duration":365,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.79409375,"end":6.629093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.236593750000001,"end":8.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.25346875,"end":8.063468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.99971875,"end":12.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.910968750000002,"end":12.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.73784375,"end":19.032218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.09534375,"end":23.723468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.17909375,"end":27.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.65534375,"end":30.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.64221875,"end":37.189718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.86471875,"end":51.938468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.259093750000005,"end":54.267218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.60471875,"end":81.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.90846875000001,"end":92.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.80971875,"end":93.92346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.68284375,"end":103.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.28471875000001,"end":107.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.50784375,"end":110.35971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.88284375,"end":111.25409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.92909375,"end":113.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.10159375,"end":118.88159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.01221875,"end":127.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.85909375000001,"end":136.43159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.64659375000002,"end":139.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.72221875,"end":143.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.26596875,"end":143.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.02534375000002,"end":151.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.66971875000002,"end":176.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.79534375,"end":158.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.31159375000001,"end":236.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.83159375000002,"end":196.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.95596875,"end":269.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.18284375,"end":284.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.85971875,"end":336.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.72096875,"end":354.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.55096875000004,"end":344.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.65534375000004,"end":351.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.20784375,"end":363.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.60346875000005,"end":360.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.64534375,"end":362.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.18096875000003,"end":363.75471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.14284375,"end":365.72909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.083,"end":18.548,"text":"謝謝主席 有請政務次長請政事長次長午安 今天跟你探討 運動部已經從體育署升格了那對於過去就是"},{"start":20.288,"end":36.929,"text":"體育署這一套僵化的一個補助的制度那來跟你做一下討論尤其就是說針對的就是優化全民運動以賽會環境計畫打造一個安全友善運動環境這一個核定的一個補助"},{"start":37.91,"end":53.161,"text":"那先從這一個整體的一個表格那在這個六都裡頭我們看到了新北市它全年是拿到2.2億那桃園是1.9億台南市是1.85那高雄市1.5億"},{"start":54.722,"end":81.077,"text":"我想前面的運動經會的一個分配的失衡然後基層支援的一個被排除那運動部升格有沒有辦法就是說把一些過去具有這些地方有一個安全性質堪慮的這些案子我們重新再拿出來討論而不是只是一個就是說那個經會已經用完了還是就是一紙公文我想"},{"start":82.017,"end":110.964,"text":"本席那個選區裡頭有一個叫夏營區這個夏營區的一個唯一的運動場叫做文小二使用的機率也非常的高全民那個就是在全年五場的開放給大家來使用尤其是在週末週日這又是本期運動人口的一個聚集地那其實除了籃球場這個地方的民眾就是常聚集在這個地方使用那"},{"start":111.974,"end":135.265,"text":"一直不斷的就是說爭取可是這個過程裡頭我們只看到了就是老師是一紙公文的一個回覆那我想民眾對於全民運動的一個實際參與顯然在鄉下這個制度我們看不到那個期限也看不到這一個風險那市長是不是針對這個議題回覆一下"},{"start":137.774,"end":158.642,"text":"包委員我們在過去體育署的時代我們的確只能依賴工建計畫是所以工建計畫裡面當然各縣市原則上是1.5億但是針對各縣市它如果舉辦全國賽會會有另外的設施改善的補助所以這部分也是造成為什麼會有一些縣市會有不均的現象的阻音當然元素還有很多"},{"start":159.522,"end":174.631,"text":"至於針對這一個運動場我想我們現在我們也在跟行政院爭取針對全民運動所需要的一些場館的一些整修我們接下來希望跟縣市政府合作這部分我們在爭取當中也請委員在"},{"start":175.972,"end":190.908,"text":"我想把它列為一個優先的案子因為事實上就是說他需要的人口那麼多一個兩萬兩千個一個區域裡頭他一個這麼重要的一個運動場那我認為是值得我們去協助他的"},{"start":191.448,"end":215.82,"text":"我覺得就是說私底下請來報告一下這一個進度好 次長在運動部口口聲聲說要改革體育協會那改革如何落實這個也是今天要跟你探討的那我們看到了就是說在今年的十夜亞洲盃的資格賽中華足學被爆出用PPT當大螢幕轉播畫面還在現場修改簡報"},{"start":221.063,"end":236.156,"text":"這個其實對整場4000多名的一個球迷看球的這個球迷其實是一個非常不應該的一個作為那其實我們看到了就是說真正的就是在那個澳"},{"start":236.997,"end":242.063,"text":"澳亞印的一個特定體育那個就是你們的一個平緩計畫裡頭我們看到的項目跟指標那指標一大堆可是平和太淺了你的真正的一個問題你被藏起來了甚至就是說"},{"start":252.134,"end":269.364,"text":"我們看到了很多該去檢討的我們看到的是有沒有辦不是看到了辦了怎麼樣那改革如果你一直靠是打分數的話那我們怎麼樣就是真正的改革這個是不是就是次長你來回應一下好不好"},{"start":270.376,"end":284.643,"text":"委員我們其實所有的國際賽都有訪世委員也會寫一些他們的報告但是針對這樣子的賽事行政的作為不當我們都會在列為下一次在補助的時候的扣款的一個原則之一指標之一"},{"start":285.936,"end":306.773,"text":"那我再提一個就是說今年桌協在這個資格賽的一個種子籤裡頭又遺落到那個柚子同學還好這一次是有被發現你看這個新聞也提了很多我們也一樣看到了指標一樣只看到有沒有辦然後我們沒有看到過程"},{"start":307.754,"end":336.112,"text":"那我希望就是說運動部是不是在一個月內提出一個檢討的方案你把賽事的一個品質然後就是觀眾的一個體驗納入評分因為這所有的賽事我們當然希望更多的一個觀眾的來參與那重新檢討就是檢視整個恍視跟考核的機制我想這個你們已經是佈局的機關了應該拿出佈會的一個格局我們不要讓改革變成是一個笑話"},{"start":336.792,"end":365.492,"text":"报委员我们在考核跟访评的部分的制度我们现在的确在研议那因为经费是运动部真正的经费明年一月开始委员可不可以给我们两个月的时间我们做一个完整的因为我们现在跟台评会这边也就做整个西部的讨论那我会把这个部分弄好之后再给报告给委员我们希望就是一个新的单位我们有更好的一个格局那也跟次长加油也跟所有的同仁加油大家一起加油谢谢谢谢委员谢谢代会委员委员"}]}},{"id":"165316","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165316","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe38783c577bafc57e1b62a46119727b9b9cc7208a858208f5ccf300a208d967c955ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"12:27:30 - 12:37:04","影片長度":"00:09:34","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T12:27:30+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:37:04+08:00","duration":574,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.37659375,"end":4.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.890968750000001,"end":6.2915937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.594718750000002,"end":11.134718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.269718750000003,"end":47.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.955968750000004,"end":48.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.81659375,"end":103.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.76284375,"end":69.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.05096875000001,"end":88.50659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.48846875000001,"end":97.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.08659375,"end":103.22159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.12034375,"end":104.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.55471875,"end":104.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.67284375000001,"end":117.78471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.05471875,"end":119.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.77596875,"end":160.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.58909375,"end":127.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.42721875,"end":137.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.89534375,"end":139.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.41721875000002,"end":148.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.24346875,"end":152.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.40784375,"end":153.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.01534375,"end":154.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.40284375000002,"end":159.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.60096875000002,"end":230.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.53721875000002,"end":164.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.37096875,"end":201.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.72909375,"end":252.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.43034375000002,"end":266.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.13409375000003,"end":258.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.87534375,"end":290.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.99346875000003,"end":267.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.50846875,"end":306.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.09034375000005,"end":295.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.08596875,"end":297.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.62534375,"end":301.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.57034375,"end":302.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.60346875000005,"end":333.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.26971875000004,"end":349.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.07034375,"end":342.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.83784375000005,"end":345.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.02284375000005,"end":368.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.12096875000003,"end":369.23909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.23909375000005,"end":371.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.58909375,"end":370.99409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.46659375,"end":391.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.44659375000003,"end":394.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.04534375000003,"end":394.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.36159375,"end":412.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.95534375000005,"end":403.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.37221875,"end":408.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.34221875000003,"end":411.84846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.77659375,"end":427.42409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.60659375,"end":421.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.28096875,"end":425.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.47471875,"end":427.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.26784375000005,"end":432.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.58784375000005,"end":437.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.31284375,"end":440.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.55721875,"end":456.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.41721875,"end":444.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.75846875,"end":447.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.84284375000004,"end":447.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.83721875000003,"end":458.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.90471875000003,"end":457.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.68096875000003,"end":459.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.18284375,"end":475.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.04346875000005,"end":460.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.28659375,"end":470.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.22721875,"end":472.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.18034375,"end":484.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.05221875,"end":490.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.45221875000004,"end":521.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.51471875000004,"end":495.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.12971875000005,"end":502.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.82284375,"end":527.2903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.9697187500001,"end":527.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.5772187499999,"end":546.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.18346875,"end":536.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.89221875,"end":536.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.20721875,"end":546.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.2240937500001,"end":546.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.5447187500001,"end":559.8759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.3872187500001,"end":555.6740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.2178437499999,"end":561.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.8715937500001,"end":569.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.27971875,"end":569.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.38909375,"end":573.8484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.18596875,"end":574.9115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.9284687500001,"end":574.9622187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.472,"end":2.592,"text":"黃文豪"},{"start":11.311,"end":37.646,"text":"部長好 部長我先請教就是說勞動部在112年有公布一個勞僱雙方約定工資給付日及工資給付指導原則那這個是針對月薪這個月薪制的這個僱主在薪資發放時間上就是需要遵循的一些相關規範那我想請教就是說這個指導原則在112年開始推動之後"},{"start":39.669,"end":43.576,"text":"當時有一個推進的時程我想請教部長到現在落實的狀況如何"},{"start":49.094,"end":66.012,"text":"跟文報告112年那時候訂定的時候其實是因為有一些個案比如說保全保全人員他們這個月工資勞務給付完了要領薪水的時候下個月會到15號以後然後雇主才發薪是所以為了改善這個狀況當時就訂了這個原則"},{"start":68.835,"end":72.376,"text":"那這個原則定了以後呢112年定了以後我們113年有把地方政府都邀集過來那請地方政府就他們轄區內的部分要積極輔導然後去了解那目前為止我們其實有請地方政府了解有沒有這個勞工陳情"},{"start":88.34,"end":115.914,"text":"就針對他的工資給付發放日有覺得有這個權益受損的勞資增益案件目前這樣的案件是不多不過我們今年過完之後明年初的時候會再邀集地方政府我們再做一個檢視混動式的去檢討那我想請教就是說你們自己有沒有去盤點就是說這個企業或者是地方政府跟你們回報的就是有遵照這樣的一個指導原則來進行"},{"start":118.395,"end":138.185,"text":"因為依法上面呢這個雇主其實只要他有定期每個月支付兩次工資然後雙方如果約定有支付一次那在這個指導原則下其實雇主是不會有違法就是他的發放薪資日其實是雙方議定"},{"start":139.005,"end":159.441,"text":"所以這個部分我們目前是透過這個地方政府他去訪視事業單位的時候幫我們了解那普查的部分我們是沒有做這樣子動用到大家去進到事業單位普查但是我們是透過地方政府要了解所有的勞資增益案件有沒有這一類型的"},{"start":159.721,"end":177.735,"text":"所以你們是透過勞資爭議案件去看有沒有接獲陳情或者是那如果說因為當初你們有這樣的一個指引有一個指導原則那也有特別提到就是說可能在2023年就是剛開始的時候你們有指引就是說500人以上就是10日"},{"start":178.536,"end":197.772,"text":"到2025年就是5日就是有這樣的一個指導原則那我不知道說這些企業有按照你們這樣的一個指導原則下去做或者是沒有那你剛剛講的就是說好像就是地方的這個地方政府好像也沒有回報就是說有類似的這個勞資糾紛"},{"start":200.914,"end":229.965,"text":"那如果没有的话那你怎么去知道就是说我原本有这样的一个指导原则也希望就是说我们的这个资方能够尽早把这个薪资发放到这个这个劳方的手上嘛那既然有这样的一个指导原则那你们是不是也要去统计一下到底有多少人有按照这样一个指导原则去做或者是没有那我相信很多的这个劳工都希望这个能够尽早他劳务都已经这个"},{"start":230.845,"end":251.628,"text":"工作都已經整個月的工作都做完了那這個下個月的這個月的薪資在下個月是不是能夠儘早能夠拿到嗎那也許他會有需要這個家裡面的這個經濟的開銷都需要這筆錢那我既然有這樣的一個指導原則那你們是不是也要去統計一下到底有沒有去落實"},{"start":252.429,"end":265.321,"text":"是的委員我們現在是有規劃在明年的時候會請地方政府幫我們針對轄區內的事業單位特別規模大的部分去了解然後回報我們勞動部做一個檢討指導原則的參考"},{"start":267.543,"end":290.667,"text":"是好那我想請教就是說因為我們這個指導原則也沒有什麼法則可是我們在那個勞基法上面就有約定工資支付的這個相關規定跟法則那有沒有未來有沒有可能就是把我們原本的這個勞僱雙方約定工資的給付日還有工資給付指導原則這個部分直接入法有沒有可能"},{"start":292.84,"end":316.943,"text":"委員我們可能步驟上面會先了解實際上面的狀況跟勞工或者是工會對於這一方面權益受損的情形那了解過後我們再評估這個法制面的部分有沒有再需要加強的地方那我希望就是說不論是公部門或者是私部門應該是要先從公部門自己做起因為我們有很多可能各單位"},{"start":317.583,"end":332.648,"text":"都會有約聘僱人員或臨時人員那如果薪資可以在這個勞務的隔月的5日內就可以拿到的話其實我覺得應該是你們既然勞動部有這樣的一個指導原則那是不是可以先從公部門這邊做起"},{"start":335.425,"end":359.997,"text":"委員您的提示我們可以盡快跟公共工程委員會還有我們人種這個部分我們做一個溝通協商評估看這個部分怎麼落實下去因為有很多都是到月中的時候才領到既然我們有這樣的一個指導原則那是不是就先從公部門自己做起"},{"start":360.697,"end":387.581,"text":"對不對先從立法院做起也可以會先從勞動部你們自己的這個約聘僱人員開始做起嗎是不是可以這樣子做我們來參考員的這個建議好那接下來我想請教部長就是說我們之前這個80歲免巴士量表那可以申請這個外籍看護外籍看護工嘛那我想請教就是說從這個制度開始之後到現在申請的狀況如何"},{"start":388.061,"end":411.944,"text":"那會不會排擠到一些重症的這個患者就目前我們看到的數據從8月開始上路申請到目前11月應該是11月初吧那我們看到的數據是目前因為這個修法而取得資格而有來申請的大概是1萬多了1萬人這樣子"},{"start":412.845,"end":426.833,"text":"那我們當然希望目前還是希望透過各種配套來去降低當初大家其實可能遇到的衝擊所以當初我們在8月的時候我們其實也提出了六大的配套的措施希望來去降低衝擊"},{"start":428.354,"end":445.261,"text":"所以目前的狀況是還好不會去衝擊到這個可能重症或者是這個重度殘障這些朋友的這個權益我們確實還是有聽到有一些重症的家庭他們也在表達他們的"},{"start":446.641,"end":474.659,"text":"這個外籍的看護那近期其實當然會各種的在工作現場會表達說是不是想要換到別的地方去啊確實會有這樣的一個狀況也會有這樣子的表達啦那我們也了解這樣子的表達存在那只是我們還是希望因為修法通過了那從行政部門角度我們還是要想辦法執行然後來降低衝擊所以只要能做的降低衝擊的我想我們還是會盡力來做"},{"start":476,"end":495.062,"text":"因為其實我們都會聽到就是說原本的外籍看護他可能想要他會覺得說這個比較不好照顧那他想要換也許他會跟家人會特別提到就是說他想要換個環境換個工作"},{"start":495.623,"end":520.999,"text":"那通常这个家庭他也许希望他留下来就会给他薪资可能再加一些所以我希望就是说劳动部针对这部分你们应该也要持续去关心因为确实这个也会造成重症家庭的比较大的一个负担而且外籍看护他也许他会一直表达他想要"},{"start":521.88,"end":546.267,"text":"换个环境所以我希望说你们真的也要持续去关心这样的一个事情不要让后面真的原本家里面有这样的一个家人就已经负担就已经蛮大的就已经很辛苦了如果又遇到看护他又想要跳槽要跳到其他地方去其实对这个家庭来讲都是负担蛮大的"},{"start":547.488,"end":574.664,"text":"那我希望就是说部长针对这一部分我们还是持续关心那我还是会持续关心因为确实这个问题是还存在的因为我们在跑行程的时候都会有听到这样的一个声音我们有收到这样的讯息所以我们持续关心不要后面造成这样的一个家庭更大的一个负担谢谢谢谢房秀安委员的发言谢谢部长的答选下一位请"}]}},{"id":"165314","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165314","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3adf0ef0451f5467b8abc180ec3481d02cc7208a858208f5c849987ba386f8b6b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:25:09 - 12:31:29","影片長度":"00:06:20","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請運動部政務次長鄭世忠列席就「對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T12:25:09+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:31:29+08:00","duration":380,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.30909375,"end":3.5915937500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.40159375,"end":5.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.586593750000002,"end":8.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.62034375,"end":8.856593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.856593750000002,"end":8.907218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.41346875,"end":12.501593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.83471875,"end":14.459093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.539093750000003,"end":17.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.63971875,"end":20.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.81221875,"end":23.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.21284375,"end":24.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.410968750000002,"end":27.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.34284375,"end":29.882843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.69284375,"end":31.688468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.85721875,"end":33.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.860968750000005,"end":35.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.822843750000004,"end":36.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.62846875,"end":38.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.41284375,"end":40.969718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.28596875,"end":45.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.53846875,"end":49.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.305968750000005,"end":52.596593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.13659375,"end":54.790343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.634093750000005,"end":56.275343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.422843750000006,"end":58.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.447843750000004,"end":61.337843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.99159375000001,"end":63.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.66221875000001,"end":65.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.28221875,"end":67.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.00346875000001,"end":69.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.29846875,"end":71.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.98159375,"end":74.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.68596875,"end":76.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.20034375,"end":77.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.04409375,"end":79.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.49471875,"end":84.25409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.84034375,"end":87.66284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.98346875,"end":88.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.65846875000001,"end":91.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.18534375,"end":92.89409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.12596875000001,"end":95.23971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.72909375,"end":99.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.72409375000001,"end":101.98971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.76971875000001,"end":107.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.52034375000001,"end":110.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.91659375,"end":112.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.43096875,"end":114.37596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.57846875000001,"end":115.42221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.55721875,"end":116.06346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.82284375,"end":119.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.26534375000001,"end":125.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.37409375000001,"end":132.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.19159375,"end":137.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.05159375,"end":138.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.57034375,"end":141.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.62909375,"end":142.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.85659375,"end":144.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.62846875,"end":148.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.31971875000002,"end":155.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.41596875000002,"end":163.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.35971875,"end":164.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.73909375000002,"end":173.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.64971875,"end":173.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.48471875,"end":176.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.89784375000002,"end":177.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.11721875,"end":180.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.31909375,"end":186.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.82034375,"end":190.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.71409375000002,"end":193.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.44784375,"end":195.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.42221875,"end":197.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.19409375,"end":199.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.86471875,"end":201.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.49721875,"end":205.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.68659375000001,"end":206.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.01096875000002,"end":212.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.06096875,"end":217.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.39784375000002,"end":218.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.59596875000003,"end":219.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.49846875,"end":225.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.20659375000002,"end":227.42159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.40034375000002,"end":229.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.06659375,"end":232.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.39971875,"end":234.77909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.48784375000002,"end":236.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.85471875000002,"end":237.54659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.05284375000002,"end":239.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.61784375000002,"end":242.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.69346875000002,"end":246.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.86159375000003,"end":247.68846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.93721875000003,"end":250.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.17284375000003,"end":255.31596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.12596875,"end":257.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.72909375,"end":262.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.99409375,"end":265.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.36909375,"end":267.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.95534375,"end":268.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.53721875,"end":271.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.53284375000004,"end":272.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.04721875,"end":274.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.07659375000003,"end":276.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.59534375000004,"end":277.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.00846875,"end":279.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.34159375,"end":280.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.08409375,"end":282.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.75471875,"end":285.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.65284375000005,"end":290.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.81659375000004,"end":293.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.34784375000004,"end":295.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.77784375000005,"end":300.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.46909375,"end":302.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.40971875,"end":306.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.15596875,"end":311.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.69534375,"end":312.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.92721875,"end":315.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.78784375000004,"end":314.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.64846875,"end":315.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.96034375,"end":317.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.73221875,"end":319.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.62221875,"end":324.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.38534375,"end":326.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.43596875000003,"end":325.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.64659375,"end":329.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.33846875,"end":328.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.92034375000003,"end":331.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.22409375,"end":331.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.97909375,"end":336.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.90659375,"end":338.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.23534375,"end":340.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.48409375,"end":340.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.90159375,"end":342.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.38659375000003,"end":344.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.51659375,"end":349.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.61346875000004,"end":353.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.22909375,"end":352.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.10659375,"end":353.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.15721875,"end":353.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.66346875000005,"end":355.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.32971875000004,"end":357.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.84846875,"end":361.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.96596875,"end":363.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.60284375000003,"end":370.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.85471875,"end":371.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.93909375000004,"end":372.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.00659375000004,"end":372.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.07409375000003,"end":372.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.15846875,"end":372.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.19221875000005,"end":374.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.30159375000005,"end":374.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.60096875000005,"end":376.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.76534375,"end":380.96721875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.524,"end":27.375,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩有請次長請次長委員好次長喔 民營主席的事情啊我追了非常久平時大把大把的銀子去補助全胡搞瞎搞選舉公開揭發以後民營主席的錢啊 說要去追回來"},{"start":29.417,"end":58.423,"text":"我一直跟你們要求提出會計師的查核報告去年一直要一直不給逼到到今年我們在處理去年總預算協商前你們才用密件的方式啊回覆說會計師啊早在去年11月26號完成了查核報告教育部對民意主協啊"},{"start":59.502,"end":84.158,"text":"我是不曉得有什麼特殊關係啊被制啊能拖就拖啊能換就換啊能遮掩就遮掩但我的原則很清楚納稅的錢不是拿去胡搞瞎搞的每一筆都要追回來我請教你"},{"start":85.882,"end":109.034,"text":"你說就民意組織的部分我問除了儀聖法辦有沒有要做行政懲處你說有就把這個錢繳回然後要求他們去做內部的懲處我先請教第一個問題內部做了什麼懲處這是你回覆我的內容在去年10月16號的時候"},{"start":113.499,"end":142.298,"text":"做了什麼懲處 有懲處嗎對不起 我印象中好像那個內政部好像針對這個人民團體的部分好像有限期改善然後不然的話就要把他們給解散了我跟你講齁 你在國會告訴我說你有要求他們去做內部的懲處嗎一個禮拜之內用書面回覆我 做了什麼內部的懲處可以嗎 因為我問題很多啦可以嗎 可以承諾齁好 第二個 錢要繳回來"},{"start":143.899,"end":172.859,"text":"你們上次今年3月10號回覆我 分兩筆啦差出來的1000多萬 分兩筆有一筆呢 金額比較小是103萬3594元你們說明你主席已經在113年8月26號辦理繳回了真的嗎報告委員 他們是年底才會繳完分三個月繳完 然後下面的等一下 先停一下啦"},{"start":174.554,"end":201.38,"text":"我們一筆一筆來啦1033594元你們上面說已經在113年8月26日辦理繳回了這個公文書上面的記載是真實的嗎報委員他們是分三個月你們以後公文書上面的記載就寫清楚不要用這種混的方式"},{"start":202.58,"end":229.239,"text":"任何人看了你們這樣的記載以為錢繳回來啦結果到今天才跟大家講原來是分期付款喔105萬分分103萬分幾期分三期所以繳了多少到年底繳 應該是每個月就繳 但年底錢會繳完你說分三期嘛第一期繳了多少"},{"start":231.124,"end":254.976,"text":"報告委員 我這邊沒有數字沒關係 一樣一個禮拜之內函附我可以嗎可以先請市長注意一件事喔大使會提供給我的資料我希望不要再出現虛偽不實的狀況可以承諾嗎可以我為什麼說虛偽不實啊給你們要資料 要半天不給"},{"start":256.175,"end":284.702,"text":"我自己去找行政院訴願決定書 我在行政院訴願決定書看到行政院訴願決定書說繳回來多少錢兩萬三百二十元兩萬三百二十元兩萬三百二十元這是訴願決定書寫的你們給教育委員會當初我要求回覆的內容寫什麼"},{"start":286.718,"end":313.886,"text":"已經在113年8月26日辦理繳回款項是103萬天差地遠兩者之間的落差我相信次長看得出來吧可以嗎可以請用聲音回覆要不然立法院公報無法記載立法院公報沒有辦法記載說他你沒講話疑點頭你看得出來嗎我看得出來他們是26才開始繳回"},{"start":318.826,"end":344.498,"text":"回覆內容請真實完全的陳述不要再遮掩可以嗎第二個部分還有1511萬什麼時候要做回來這部分已經達成協議有分10年來還款分10年每一年還多少就除以10確定確定抱歉這個部分完"},{"start":348.66,"end":369.827,"text":"放水啊 我跟你們講我想還是一週內 用書面回覆啊在國內講一套私底下背著國人幹另外一套要搞放水啊 我絕對不會接受一個禮拜之內書面回覆啊下一次到這邊來的時候 我們繼續追 謝謝"},{"start":372.907,"end":379.357,"text":"謝謝黃國昌委員質詢請次長回座這部分可以看出來這個要委員的這個質詢持續"}]}},{"id":"165312","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165312","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3610e00eae30db8e657c737e12387eef8cc7208a858208f5c057babbb10d0fc445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:59:06 - 12:19:39","影片長度":"00:20:33","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-12","start_time":"2025-11-12T11:59:06+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-12T12:19:39+08:00","duration":1233,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.391593750000002,"end":18.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.57659375,"end":19.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.58034375,"end":22.086593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.930343750000002,"end":31.469093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.346593750000004,"end":34.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.337843750000005,"end":34.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.35471875,"end":44.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.96096875,"end":43.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.03659375,"end":45.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.58909375,"end":52.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.93471875,"end":49.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.774093750000006,"end":52.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.44471875,"end":62.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.540343750000005,"end":62.502218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.51909375,"end":62.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.721593750000004,"end":63.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.58221875,"end":65.48909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.25721875,"end":64.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.92784375000001,"end":90.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.18971875000001,"end":91.20659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.20659375000001,"end":112.48596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.65034375,"end":120.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.29096875,"end":120.26534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.39596875000001,"end":121.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.73346875000001,"end":130.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.84284375000001,"end":124.14659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.81659375,"end":129.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.05284375000002,"end":134.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.61784375000002,"end":171.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.10534375,"end":174.87284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.50159375,"end":174.77159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.17659375000002,"end":175.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.10471875000002,"end":176.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.00721875000002,"end":183.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.02784375000002,"end":182.77034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.37784375,"end":191.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.14034375,"end":210.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.17534375000002,"end":211.86284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.25534375,"end":211.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.86284375000002,"end":211.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.96409375000002,"end":212.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.63909375,"end":227.87721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.40034375000002,"end":236.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.33159375000002,"end":239.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.04846875,"end":242.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.63471875000002,"end":240.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.03534375,"end":247.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.23284375000003,"end":255.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.83909375000002,"end":256.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.42534375,"end":276.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.86534375,"end":282.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.97409375,"end":292.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.03596875,"end":293.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.58846875,"end":302.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.14409375,"end":302.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.86971875,"end":304.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.93721875,"end":303.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.79346875000005,"end":316.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.87596875,"end":329.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.02596875,"end":339.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.15096875,"end":348.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.65159375,"end":359.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.81846875,"end":372.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.93159375000005,"end":366.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.21409375,"end":368.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.22221875,"end":388.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.21909375,"end":403.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.61346875000004,"end":403.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.86659375000005,"end":403.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.96784375000004,"end":404.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.00159375000004,"end":404.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.03534375000004,"end":410.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.24971875,"end":415.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.49346875000003,"end":415.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.96596875,"end":416.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.01659375,"end":416.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.03346875000005,"end":416.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.38784375,"end":418.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.62409375000004,"end":420.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.04534375000003,"end":422.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.67784375,"end":425.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.82534375,"end":427.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":427.13721875000005,"end":471.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.59221875000003,"end":432.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.70534375000005,"end":437.16096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.08784375000005,"end":477.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.96471875000003,"end":520.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.59096875,"end":524.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.96159375,"end":529.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.6653437500001,"end":535.5928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.3015937499999,"end":539.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.9084687500001,"end":545.3972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.8234687500001,"end":544.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.8572187500001,"end":545.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.3972187500001,"end":545.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.6672187500001,"end":555.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":552.23159375,"end":553.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.47596875,"end":557.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.6359687500001,"end":556.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.55971875,"end":566.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.99721875,"end":573.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.6797187500001,"end":575.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.4853437500001,"end":588.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.0703437500001,"end":593.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.5803437500001,"end":589.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.9128437500001,"end":598.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.8740937499999,"end":601.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.89096875,"end":599.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.0678437500001,"end":602.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.8059687500001,"end":604.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.6497187500001,"end":604.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.25284375,"end":611.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":606.4340937500001,"end":606.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":608.6953437500001,"end":609.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.41659375,"end":613.4709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.84221875,"end":622.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.41471875,"end":663.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":665.0578437500001,"end":666.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":667.2178437500002,"end":669.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":669.8334687500001,"end":671.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.1284687500001,"end":676.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":675.0815937500001,"end":675.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.9040937500001,"end":686.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":686.77596875,"end":689.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.62346875,"end":745.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.0703437500001,"end":753.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":753.9722187500001,"end":754.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.9340937500001,"end":754.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":754.9678437500002,"end":757.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":757.56659375,"end":758.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":758.7647187500002,"end":770.1553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":770.79659375,"end":778.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":778.64346875,"end":783.5034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":783.7397187500001,"end":786.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":785.96721875,"end":787.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":787.0303437500002,"end":789.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":789.9665937500001,"end":802.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":790.87784375,"end":791.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":802.82534375,"end":818.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":816.78096875,"end":825.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":824.9653437500001,"end":825.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":825.6740937500001,"end":830.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":830.36534375,"end":831.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":832.08659375,"end":846.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":846.97034375,"end":849.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":852.04971875,"end":853.8047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":853.06221875,"end":853.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":854.04096875,"end":854.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":854.59784375,"end":855.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":856.5890937500001,"end":890.3897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":891.0478437500001,"end":901.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":901.83096875,"end":933.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":933.6572187500001,"end":943.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":943.3940937500001,"end":949.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":951.44346875,"end":952.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":952.7934687500001,"end":958.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":957.4678437500002,"end":957.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":958.1259687500001,"end":967.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":967.8628437500001,"end":985.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":985.32846875,"end":987.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":988.9397187500001,"end":998.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":998.72721875,"end":1009.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1009.9322187500002,"end":1010.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1010.8603437500001,"end":1017.3572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1012.21034375,"end":1012.8178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1012.8178437500001,"end":1012.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1013.77971875,"end":1015.4165937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1018.0322187500001,"end":1018.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1019.28096875,"end":1019.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1023.0947187500001,"end":1023.1115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1023.1115937500001,"end":1023.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1024.47846875,"end":1034.9915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1030.23284375,"end":1030.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1032.62909375,"end":1033.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1034.19846875,"end":1051.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1052.5415937500002,"end":1060.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1059.52784375,"end":1060.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1061.2322187500001,"end":1064.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1064.6409687500002,"end":1089.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1089.61596875,"end":1091.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1092.40034375,"end":1111.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1111.3003437500001,"end":1120.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1120.8853437500002,"end":1125.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1125.88034375,"end":1145.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1145.87721875,"end":1146.9234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1147.81784375,"end":1150.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1150.90596875,"end":1155.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1151.4122187500002,"end":1152.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1152.59346875,"end":1164.9122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1158.3140937500002,"end":1158.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1164.13596875,"end":1172.5059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1173.68721875,"end":1178.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1179.4247187500002,"end":1181.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1181.6015937500001,"end":1194.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1191.69284375,"end":1199.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1196.9747187500002,"end":1197.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1199.97846875,"end":1203.0159687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1200.01221875,"end":1205.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1204.4503437500002,"end":1230.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1226.9109687500002,"end":1227.3497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1227.3497187500002,"end":1227.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1228.2103437500002,"end":1229.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1229.2734687500001,"end":1229.3072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1229.67846875,"end":1229.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1229.7122187500001,"end":1234.72409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":15.158,"end":19.363,"text":"謝謝主席 是不是請我們副秘書長請王副秘 委員好副秘書長 在我國的法律施行細則哪一部法律的施行細則條文最多 你知道嗎"},{"start":32.763,"end":44.037,"text":"這個我倒沒有研究沒有研究那我是看到這個國民法官法的施行細則很多條你知道多少條嗎幾百條"},{"start":47.358,"end":63.884,"text":"對 比他的母法還要多三倍341條那這麼多條裡面所以你印象所及有哪一部法律的施行細則是超過300條的 比他多的印象中沒有沒有"},{"start":66.005,"end":89.983,"text":"人家都說這個法律多牛如毛嘛那一個國民法官法的施行細則有341條那想必當初你們司法院認為是有需要才會定出這麼耗煩的施行細則嘛不過這個施行細則我要請問你大家都知道施行細則的法律位階是什麼"},{"start":91.463,"end":110.693,"text":"次於法律次於法律OK那請問你在這個法律的位階裡面施行細則裡面可以不可以自己寫著說我要排除某一個法律的適用可不可以說我不受某個法律的管制施行細則裡面可以嗎"},{"start":114.503,"end":134.351,"text":"這個是就是基本法理就是基本法理那我剛剛講的細則當然不能違背法律啊但細則裡面定出來的文字寫我排除某條法律的適用因為詳細的那個情形我不知道OK沒關係我現在很具體的告訴你"},{"start":136.452,"end":153.998,"text":"國民法官法施行細則341條的條文當中其中有一條施行細則第289之1條第一項規定本法第88條就母法國民法官法第88條所稱得盡記載證據名稱及對重要爭點判斷的理由"},{"start":162.08,"end":173.645,"text":"下列事項並不受刑事訴訟法第310條第一款第二款規定的限制你們自己去補充你們母法"},{"start":179.142,"end":193.01,"text":"是 你知道 私刑記者這樣寫私刑記者說 我不受刑事訴訟法第310條第一款第二款規定的限制 你覺得這樣子妥當嗎那個報委員齁 因為在那個"},{"start":194.551,"end":211.857,"text":"我這樣說好了先從結論上來看就是這個施行細則他跟他的那個母法國民法官法他是沒有違背的那國民法官他的制度當時還設計的時候呢他確實有跟我們傳統的這個刑事程序他做了很多這個我當然知道但我跟你講"},{"start":212.978,"end":222.709,"text":"他們的母法國民法官法第88條條文只有這樣子喔有罪的判決書有關認定犯罪事實的理由得緊記載證據名稱及對重要爭點判斷的理由那請問"},{"start":228.496,"end":240.827,"text":"母法第88條有說我要排除刑事訴訟法第310條第一款第二款嗎因為310條如果我沒記錯OK你認為310條跟母法第88條會有漢格嗎他確實做了一個不太一樣的設計對不一樣的設計但是即便如此你如果認為應該要排除刑事訴訟法第這個"},{"start":258.382,"end":282.003,"text":"310條的適用你也應該要修法而且應該要定在國民法官法的法條裡面怎麼可能沒有定好法律沒有制定好你們就便以形式然後你們再一個法規的未接的施行細則你們說我要排除這個的適用我知道你們本意是什麼但是你們便以形式你們在破壞法律的架構"},{"start":283.704,"end":310.497,"text":"所以呢你要在施行細則當中說不受刑事訴訟法的限制那你應該要在國民法官法裡面修法不是嗎那個謝謝委員指教因為我想這是不同的解讀因為就是說國民法官他因為就是不要這樣講副秘書長這不是解讀我在講法律上嚴肅的問題你的施行細則要來自於母法的授權"},{"start":311.658,"end":339.141,"text":"你要排除其他法律的適用要法律保留原則而你的母法裡面沒有要直接寫排除雖然你們整部法律的適用的設計其實是要排除或者是要部分不一樣但你應該在母法裡面設計啊報告委員因為88條它的那個規定呢它事實上就已經是和刑事訴訟法310條做了一個不同的那個"},{"start":339.241,"end":359.137,"text":"那你當初在母法你就要最後一項要講我要排除刑事訴訟法第310條第一款第二款的這個適用你要在母法裡面怎麼會是在一個施行細則裡面你們顯然看到了有問題所以才在施行細則裡面要加這一句話嘛"},{"start":360.865,"end":370.177,"text":"因為這個國民法官法88條他就是特別規定有關於國民法官有罪判決要怎麼寫判決書怎麼寫怎麼記載如果沒有特別的規定當然是刑事訴訟法裡面的規定啊"},{"start":378.12,"end":403.144,"text":"但你國民法官法要特別的規定你應該在母法裡面規定哪有母法沒有規定然後你在施行棄責說我要排除刑事訴訟法所以我說這是便宜刑事啊我不是反對喔是你們便宜刑事你覺得這樣的法律架構可以嗎你剛剛一開頭我就問你說他的法律位階是什麼他可以在一個這麼比法律位階還要低的地方說我要排除"},{"start":403.664,"end":422.315,"text":"刑事訴訟法的適用嗎因為剛剛那個施行細則他的依據是從國民法官法88條下來的沒有直接說我排除刑事訴訟法的適用但是從他的文藝的規定裡面就已經排除了刑訴310條啦他就已經排除 因為不一樣啊"},{"start":423.697,"end":449.421,"text":"如果不一樣 那你的施行棄責改掉如果舊母法就足夠有法源的話你把你的施行棄責排除什麼法律的字眼拿掉確實施行棄責不寫那一句話結論上還是一樣的那寫了架構不一樣喔現在我的意思是說你們明年1月1號開始要針對最輕本刑10年以上所有有期徒刑都要適用國民法官法了"},{"start":450.001,"end":471.418,"text":"你現在要好好去檢討你所有的施行細則300多條哪些你是排除刑事訴訟法的規定的你的母法裡面沒有約束好的沒有法律保留原則的而你通通都直接就在便宜刑事在施行細則裡面訂好的你難道不用整部法律再拿出來看一下嗎譬如說"},{"start":473.134,"end":493.009,"text":"比如說國民法官法第六條第一項規定應該行國民法官審判的案件有幾種例外可以由法院裁定不適用國民法官法其中第四款被告就背訴的事實為有罪的陳述被告都認罪了然後呢"},{"start":493.789,"end":519.701,"text":"然後經審判長告知被告通常審判程序之指且依案件情節認不行國民參與審判為適當所以這一條講得很清楚如果被告認罪了那後半段是說依案件情節認不行國民法官審判為適當你可不可以舉幾個例子告訴我們後半段指涉的法律的意旨是什麼"},{"start":521.066,"end":538.642,"text":"而認為說該案情節這個不適合這個行國運參與審判那這個標準除了第六條第一項的前幾款以外還有什麼這個我是不是請那個法官來那個回覆好來"},{"start":541.44,"end":557.115,"text":"報告委員那這部分是國民法官法的第六條第一項的規定我知道那告以通常審判程序之指那就是說告知他說通常審判程序的那個進行內容跟他的權利事項我知道對那案件情節我是叫你舉個例子可以告訴我們"},{"start":558.595,"end":571.272,"text":"好 舉個例子告訴我們第一個被告都認罪了第二個你也告知他這個程序了通常審判的程序了那依案件情節認為不行參與國民審判國民法官審判為"},{"start":574.816,"end":597.889,"text":"為適當 你舉個例子給我通常就涉及到良心的部分如果良心的部分有涉及到例如說需要國民法官意見參與的部分比較多要反映國民法官感情的時候這時候可能就不適宜轉換所以這個真點就是剩下良心的部分那在良心上面認為有可能會傷及國民情感的你舉個例子給我聽就涉及到例如說特別侵害到所謂的個人人身法益的那個部分"},{"start":599.569,"end":620.333,"text":"如果有涉及到這個部分的話具體的例子高度社會矚目不見得是社會矚目可能是身體法醫的侵害這個部分最高本刑十年以上啊當然是這樣子啊現在講第六條整條都在講可以不要適用國民法官法的審理所以叫你們訂"},{"start":625.353,"end":644.511,"text":"已經訂出來了我現在在根據一個司法院判決查詢系統裡面講有一個檢察官起訴傷害致死的案件而這個裁定的內容被告承認犯罪全部都承認那被告也跟被害人的家屬達成和解"},{"start":645.652,"end":671.719,"text":"那被告跟被害人家屬也都明確表示因為曠日廢時程序冗長我全部都認罪我也全部都和解了被害的家屬也認為說我們也不想要國民法官那也不要 到這種狀況裡面你覺得說這個這樣的條件符不符合第六條第一項第四款"},{"start":672.908,"end":696.096,"text":"報告委員 個案的部分我們不方便評論不過就整體上而言就是說這部分當然各法院他有自己的獨立審判認為適不適合國民法官參與這個良心部分他會有各自的判斷那當然這部分將來就是由上訴程序來進行審查你們一定標準回答這樣子 好來你們法院法官堅持一定要走國民法官法的審理程序"},{"start":697.593,"end":714.849,"text":"這個你剛剛講說個別法官的自行的裁量我現在不是要跟你講個案我是要很清楚的問你第一個被告承認犯罪然後從被告跟被害人家屬有達成和解被告跟被害人家屬都明確講我不要用國民法官法因為對我們來講折騰而且跑法院的程序冗長"},{"start":719.593,"end":744.867,"text":"那第四個法律規定明明就規定也可以這樣子為什麼你們的法官堅持要用國民法官法為什麼還要陪你們完成國民法官審判的這個績效我再問你副秘書長司法審判的目的是什麼司法審判的目的不管職業法官或是國民法官司法審判的最終極的目的是什麼"},{"start":747.099,"end":768.308,"text":"就是把那個實體正義透過司法程序實現出來第一個一定是發現真實嘛第二個罰當其罪嘛對不對就是要這樣子那我們現在就是說在這種狀況裡面法官為什麼會堅持一定說你要給我陪我走完國民參審的這個審判"},{"start":770.894,"end":788.239,"text":"所以在這裡你們訂了第六條可以例外可是為什麼法官現在認為說你們要陪我走完這個審判國民參審的審判為什麼那個委員我想兩個部分有沒有一種是制度面的問題"},{"start":790.054,"end":816.45,"text":"制度面什麼問題 那個第一個當然是個案 個案情形因為不知道 那個是個案法官的那個考慮然後第二個就是說 這個是回應就是說國民法官法 他的那個制度的本質就是說 剛委員講得很好 就是罰當其罪那但是 什麼是一個適當的那個刑罰 其實我們法院那個判決以前出去的時候 大部分對於有罪無罪 還不會引起這麼大爭議"},{"start":818.291,"end":845.209,"text":"這個都是非常重大的社會高度矚目的那一些犯罪但你們的刑事犯罪非常多十年以上的也很多耶不是每個都要叫國民法官除非我們整個司法體制要改要全改陪審團制否則我們不是在這裡陪著你們跑這麼冗長的程序我現在要講的是說還有一個有沒有可能是一種可能你們法院在事務分配的制度上有問題啊"},{"start":847.049,"end":848.873,"text":"你知道你們事務分配上的制度有什麼問題嗎"},{"start":852.482,"end":881.282,"text":"請委員指教 你不知道可能裝算的吧分案的時候如果你們讓你的案件去使用參審國民法官審理的程序審判長折抵兩件分案受命法官折抵四件到宣誓判決的時候審判長折抵四件受命法官再折抵十件"},{"start":883.464,"end":900.702,"text":"這個獎勵機制不得了了這個法官可以折抵十個案件分案可以少十個所以如果裁定不行國民參與審判程序則不得主張折抵上訴於宣誓判決時再折抵的件數"},{"start":901.923,"end":929.595,"text":"所以你們怎樣一邊鼓勵折抵交付國民法官審判鼓勵你們法官我給你好的鼓勵的機制你趕快交付給國民法官審判然後去折抵案件你的分擔量會減少另一方面你們嚴格的限縮了如果你法官本身你自行去裁定你不讓他進行國民法官參審的程序進行的時候"},{"start":929.955,"end":949.736,"text":"你是不能夠去折抵的 換句話說這一種事務分配的制度這一種獎勵制度 這一種誘因把受命法官自身的利益建立在可能 可能凌駕或犧牲當事人的權利之上有沒有可能"},{"start":952.833,"end":975.862,"text":"那個包委員我們的觀察跟了解並不是這樣子的因為就是說我的觀察就這個個案從司法體系去觀察因為人家被告全部都認罪了你講的我全認罪然後呢跟被害家屬也達成和解被害者的家屬也說我不想要再跑這一個國民法官審理的程序"},{"start":976.702,"end":987.629,"text":"然後法律也規定可以這樣子為什麼你們要 硬要人家陪著你們玩跑完這個程序 你知道你知道這個 副秘書長告訴你"},{"start":988.991,"end":1009.077,"text":"全台灣我去調資料全台灣各地方法院適用國民法官法的案件數跟被告這個被適用國民法官法案件裡面的被告他去申請法律輔助的人數的比例有多高你知道嗎"},{"start":1010.066,"end":1019.634,"text":"非常的高非常的高為什麼多高請林淑芬委員控制一下時間好不好好最後兩分鐘為什麼這麼高為什麼多高多高"},{"start":1024.84,"end":1030.245,"text":"在那個113年177件裡面呢這個是從件數來看那從被告來看的話有153位被告是用國民法官這個審理的案件裡面113年177件去申請法律輔助的有153件高達將近87%然後將近9成 為什麼"},{"start":1052.58,"end":1072.972,"text":"因為這些所有的案件都是那個強制辯護案件那事實上我們現在都可以申請那個 都可以申請輔助的不是啦 副秘書長 你內行人講外行話國民法官案件的律師對他們律師還有被告本身來說程序相當的冗長 很難處理 事情很繁瑣"},{"start":1077.535,"end":1090.132,"text":"所以律師費用都比一般案件還要貴還要高事實上很多被告都負擔不起只能去找法服啦是這樣子而且法律師事實上不太愛辦這種案件"},{"start":1094.901,"end":1098.545,"text":"所以我要告訴你說 其實因為事情很繁瑣 曠日廢時不是只有被告 連受害者的家屬都還在那裡很冗長的陪你們演完這一齣因為我都認罪了 我也都和解了"},{"start":1111.457,"end":1118.242,"text":"我就等判刑 你們還要把我再演一遍不是演一遍 陪你們演一齣國民參審的一齣大戲這樣 他們就要再大無盡的折磨你知道大家都知道不是個人很煩的不是被告很煩的個人怕煩他就很煩的"},{"start":1133.254,"end":1146.585,"text":"你還要叫他 我都認罪認罪你不要再給我搞這一套程序你說不行 我就是要搞這一套程序因為我法官可以折抵十個案件的分案量這樣對不對沒有值得說回去好好再"},{"start":1152.617,"end":1171.588,"text":"好 謝謝林淑芬委員今天的詢問委員信賴我們職業法官希望我們職業法官來審理這對我們的肯定我非常謝謝有要件啊我們認罪了 和解了被害者的家屬也認為不想要了是這個要件但你們為什麼硬要逼人家去走那一趟呢"},{"start":1179.685,"end":1195.974,"text":"這個要件是有前提的所以你們是不是制度面你們的折抵你們事務分配的制度有沒有問題這個制度是建立在法官會把個人自身的利益凌駕在當事人的利益之上因為即使是承認了案件國民法官"},{"start":1197.255,"end":1202.398,"text":"你覺得你們的事務分配這樣的制度對嗎大判決的時候一個可以抵十件這樣對嗎我現在問你說你承認沒有辦法cover過來就知道這多麼的需要耗煩 多麼需要時間多麼的需要這個很多的心力和精力有哪個人負擔得起這樣的律師的費用"},{"start":1221.149,"end":1223.631,"text":"有哪幾個被害者的家屬負擔得起這樣子冗長的程序不要講被害喔被害家屬也是 更要回去檢討啊謝謝林淑雯委員"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}