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test test 123 123 1200 程序委員會那我換另外一邊這次是 123 123 1200 1200 123 123 OK"},{"start":1769.601,"end":1793.677,"text":"好 報告委員會已足法定人數現在開始開會 請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院程序委員會第十一屆第四會期第八次會議議事錄時間中華民國一百四四年十一月十八日星期二中午十二時一分至十一分地點紅樓二零一會議室出席委員王委員易川等十七人主席沈委員發會報告事項一宣讀本會第十一屆第四會期第七次會議議事錄決定確定"},{"start":1794.617,"end":1798.219,"text":"請問有錯誤或遺漏之處沒有的話我們議事錄確定接下來請宣讀報告事項及執行事項"},{"start":1824.659,"end":1846.562,"text":"立法院第十一屆第四會期第十一次會議議事成草案 時間中華民國一百一十四年十一月二十八日星期五十二月二日星期二三五九十至下午六時 地點本院議場 報告事項一 宣讀本院第十一屆第四會期第十次會議議事錄 二至六委員王逸川等理局動物傳染病防治條例交經濟委員會審查 所得稅法交財政委員會審查監獄刑刑法中華民國刑法中華民國刑法私刑法交司法及法治委員會審查"},{"start":1847.703,"end":1868.78,"text":"7至11委員王定宇等擬具遊說法國家安全法交內政委員會審查反滲透法交內政司法及法治兩委員會審查陸海空軍刑法交司法及法治外交及國防兩委員會審查12至13委員葉元之等擬具人工智慧基本法交交易及文化交通兩委員會審查民法交司法及法治委員會審查14至18委員邱志偉等擬具台灣地區大陸地區人民關係條例交內政委員會審查僑務委員會組織法"},{"start":1871.582,"end":1892.497,"text":"軍事審判法 交涉法的法制外交局國防兩委員會審查 法院組織法 交涉法的法制委員會審查 職業災害勞工保護法 交涉社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查19到22委員劉建國等你去 醫療法勞工保險條例交涉社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查23委員油耗等你去 民法交涉法的法制委員會審查24至26委員陳林飛等你去 土石採取法 企業併購法"},{"start":1893.217,"end":1895.759,"text":"交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交交"},{"start":1913.729,"end":1932.302,"text":"三十八至四十 文牛許廷登一句 家庭暴力防治法 交社會福利及溫暖環境 司法提法至兩委員會審查國民年金法 勞工保險條例 交社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查四十一至四十二 文羅志強登一句 青年基本法 交教育基本法委員會審查 社會救助法 交社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查四十三至四十四"},{"start":1933.203,"end":1934.504,"text":"國民年金法交 社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查"},{"start":1951.732,"end":1977.63,"text":"49至50行政院行政審議財政收支劃分法交財政委員會審查勞工保險條例交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查51至144內政部國防部農業部經濟部行政院財政部央行金管會文化部交易部交通部法務部環境部國發會故宮工程會衛福部園民會河岸會國客會含送書面資料交相關委員會145至150內政部衛福部勞動部含為預算決議事項交財政及相關委員會處理"},{"start":1979.111,"end":2002.168,"text":"國民黨黨團提議增列1 委員徐巧欣等你去少年事件處理法交司法及法治委員會審查2-3 委員翁曉琳等你去少年事件處理法交司法及法治委員會審查老人福利法交社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查4 委員邱振軍等你去醫療法交社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查5 委員陳超明等你去森林法交經濟委員會審查6-7 委員鄭天才等你去能源管理法交經濟委員會審查國有財產法交財政委員會審查"},{"start":2004.95,"end":2020.351,"text":"8至10 文林健齊的擬居中華民國刑法中華民國刑法執行法交司法及法治委員會審查就業服務法交社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查11文傅坤齊的擬居國際法交內政委員會審查12文楊崇英的擬居勞工保險條例交社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查"},{"start":2021.292,"end":2040.298,"text":"十三委員李燕秀等你局勞工保險條例交社會福利及溫和環境委員會審查 十四至十五委員廖偉強等你局勞工保險條例交社會福利及溫和環境委員會審查 民進黨黨團T陣列十六民進黨黨團你局強化民主投票促進法交內政委員會審查 十七至十九委員黃潔等你局外送員權益保障及外送平臺管理法"},{"start":2041.258,"end":2055.254,"text":"消費者保護法 交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 詐欺犯罪危害防止條例交內政委會審查20-23為劉建國等你局外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法 醫療法 藥事法 藥害救濟法交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查"},{"start":2057.597,"end":2074.174,"text":"24-26 陳俊宇等擬具 使用牌照稅法 貨物稅條例交到財政委員會審查 勞工保險條例交到社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查27 李昆城等擬具 勞工保險條例交到社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查28-29 林淑芬等擬具 勞工保險條例 家庭暴力防治法交到社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查"},{"start":2076.736,"end":2104.014,"text":"30-31 王振旭等你去就業補法 勞工保險條例交 社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查32-33 吳世耀等你去預算法交財政委員會審查 勞工保險條例交 社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查34-36 陳培一敦你去 勞工保險條例交 社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查 少年事件處理法法院組織法交 司法提法制委員會審查37-01 景德你去立法委員行為法交 司法提法制委員會審查38-01 沈博洋等你去香港澳門關係條例交 內政委員會審查"},{"start":2106.315,"end":2131.061,"text":"39委員李博義等擬居立法院議事規則交涉法律法治委員會審查40至42委員郭國文等委員沈薄洋等委員黃潔等委員郭玉琴等委員張宏祿等委員張雅玲等委員林月琴等委員李博義等委員吳秉瑞等委員陳培宇等委員蔡宜瑜等委員林益菁等分別擬居臺灣地區大陸地區人民關係條例交內政委員會審查臺灣民眾黨黨團體增列53臺灣民眾黨黨團擬居身心障礙者權益保障法交社會福利及溫暖環境委員會審查"},{"start":2132.721,"end":2151.147,"text":"諮詢事項對行政院院長施政報告繼續諮詢11月28日宣讀完畢好現在請登記委員發言第一位我們請劉委員舒斌發言那我們在在劉這個劉委員舒斌發言結束的時候停止發言登記"},{"start":2156.024,"end":2179.885,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨黨團針對第十一屆第四會期第十一次會議議事日程草案除議程草案報告事項第49案增列報告事項第37至50案建議暫緩列案外其餘報告事項 質詢事項及對行政院長施政報告繼續質詢"},{"start":2182.847,"end":2203.1,"text":"至11月28日 均照議事日程草案及各黨團增列報告事項通過是否有當 敬請公決提案人 台灣民眾黨立法院黨團好 接下來我們請第二位林委員願請發言"},{"start":2214.993,"end":2229.912,"text":"針對第十一屆第四會期第十一次會議議程報告事項質詢事項對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢十一月十八日建請照議事日程草案及甄列報告事項通過提案人民主進步檔"},{"start":2237.911,"end":2253.028,"text":"登記委員已經發言完畢我們現在進行處理先提案先處理我們首先要先處理劉淑檳委員的提案劉淑檳委員提案是議程草案第49案也就是行政院含情審議的財政收支劃分法"},{"start":2254.383,"end":2276.436,"text":"要暫緩列案另外就是第30增列第37至52案就是兩岸人民關係條例等國安法案暫緩列案那我們就先處理劉淑冰委員的提案請問對劉淑冰委員提案有異議有異議我們現在進行表決請清點在場人數"},{"start":2283.459,"end":2296.614,"text":"好 贊成劉淑冰委員提案的請舉手好 反對的情況下 反對劉淑冰委員提案的請舉手"},{"start":2305.725,"end":2323.44,"text":"好表決結果在場16人贊成者9人反對者7人贊成者多數通過那我們報告事項的就修正通過質詢事項跟對行政院長施政報告繼續質詢通過那其他的提案我們就不處理接下來請宣讀討論事項"},{"start":2326.873,"end":2340.796,"text":"討論事項 一 院會通過予以刪除 二 本院國民黨黨團建請院會作成決議 建請賴清德總統宣告特赦台北地方法院一百一十三年度重訴之地十四號案件之被告 請供決案三至六院會通過予以刪除"},{"start":2343.78,"end":2368.911,"text":"七 職業安全衛生法修正草案 八 全民健康保險管理調理修正條例草案 九 國民黨黨團建請院會作成決議對行政院院長卓中泰 延宕中央選舉委員會委員人士提名提出最嚴厲譴責請供決案 十 電液法修正草案 十一 天然氣事業法修正草案 十二 自來水法修正草案 十三 噪音管制法修正草案 宣讀完畢"},{"start":2371.325,"end":2384.491,"text":"好 現在請登記委員發言 首先我們請登記第一位的劉委員 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有請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":1775.356,"end":1789.819,"text":"李元豪院長辛苦了齁那在立法院的財化法第二次的刪讀以後那我其實非常憂心啦那我今天質詢的重點雖然是交通組那圍繞著整個"},{"start":1791.353,"end":1819.545,"text":"左營男子大建設的方向那其實這個跟行政院所有的預算息息相關包含捷運子線包含雖然今天不在交通組裡面我們的國家重點領域校際研教園區4年130幾億那很顯然的我在上週在跟左院長爭取的時候這一筆經費已經受到一點影響了就是第二年就已經開始受到影響了"},{"start":1820.563,"end":1848.087,"text":"那為什麼我們高雄現在極力在爭取這一些TSMC第一個廠現在在高雄已經開始在亮廠接下來最少還有五個廠甚至今天媒體報導TSMC還有可能會在南部再繼續設廠因為它兩奈米的這個訂單實在是太滿了其實高雄百浦園區也已經做好準備"},{"start":1848.827,"end":1873.022,"text":"也不斷的跟內政部在橋頭科學園區以外的這個白埔園區做這些區徵的這些道路的開闢也都已經準備好了包含水電等等也都已經準備好了那沿著台積電周圍的包含私運組場館上個禮拜周子瑜回來了上個月Blackpink也來了"},{"start":1873.968,"end":1893.248,"text":"那整個高雄整個左營南梓的發展除了我剛講的這個校際園區之外那最重要的捷運直線最重要的鐵路立體化最重要的還有相關很多這些交通的建設我們必須要有堅強的中央的財政"},{"start":1895.41,"end":1919.32,"text":"才有辦法來挹注給高雄那依照上個禮拜上上個禮拜五11月14號立法院通過的財化法我秀一個圖給院長參考如果說依照這個版本的財化法的話高雄在明年度整個中央的計劃型補助可能只剩下308億而高雄今年度就已經拿到497億的計劃型補助"},{"start":1923.841,"end":1941.122,"text":"比全國明年中央可以拿的還要多那院長對於這個11月14號的財化法要不要做復議行政院11月14號的財化法現在復議的期間最後的期限是本週四"},{"start":1941.903,"end":1970.036,"text":"本週四那我認為這三天當中立法院還是可以有些作為讓我們知道這部失速列車能不能停得下來再加上上週五又通過了如果依照這個裁判法這裡就宣告捷運子先掰掰藍白要封殺高雄捷運子先因為在明年所依據的去年通過的新版的裁判法他必須維持一般刑補助2501億"},{"start":1971.857,"end":1977.628,"text":"如果再維持2900多億的計劃型補助再增加統籌分配捐款釋出4615億那中央絕對破產"},{"start":1980.834,"end":2001.195,"text":"中央不只破產而且要違法舉債要違法來編列這個預算就絕對不行所以明年的計畫性補助只得降為308億維持住2500億的計畫性補助高雄今年就有497億的計畫性補助如果明年中央整個全國經費降為300多億的話我想"},{"start":2002.196,"end":2028.872,"text":"不只我剛講的捷運子線沒有了還有陸竹延伸線沒有了小港林園線沒有了鐵路立體化沒有了什麼都沒有了因為統籌分配稅款多增四千六百一十五億分配給二十二個縣市所以理論上每個縣市都會多了一兩百億 數十億所以我們希望像高雄這樣子明年少掉的計劃型補助"},{"start":2030.612,"end":2047.45,"text":"就由地方來多負擔一些如果地方不負擔那就把工程的期限往後延這兩個只能選擇為一但我覺得都不是好的方法所以這邊 院長立法院還可以做什麼我在這邊也要呼籲想要在高雄參選市長國民黨的柯志恩委員"},{"start":2048.444,"end":2066.801,"text":"你知道你舉手的才化法會把高雄的這些建設毀掉嗎你知道你舉手的才化法會像卓院長講的原本五年變十年變十五年這些建設要延期嗎也希望國民黨想要參選的必須要為自己舉手負責第二個"},{"start":2067.961,"end":2090.774,"text":"市權沒有分配台中新北台北多拿那麼多經費每天都在被吵著說要不要普發現金的問題你要不要停止了雙北市長跟台中市長要不要停止這一場荒謬的才化法讓行政院可以真正為台灣區域均衡發展真正為所有的軌道建設來做一個佈局"},{"start":2091.923,"end":2112.92,"text":"我想在這邊呼籲在野黨的立法委員也要做這個事情也希望在我們跟地方這幾天繼續溝通之後定版的院版裁判法裡面的分配數字我們能夠詳細計算出來也請各位委員看一下到底對你各該縣市是不是一個更合理的市權跟稅款的分配當中"},{"start":2113.681,"end":2129.306,"text":"院長我昨天有很認真的看了一下我們行政院院版的新的財化法裡面把人口從45%降到30%把土地面積從10%升到30%把工業從業人口數升到20%把農林榆木產值等等"},{"start":2129.986,"end":2159.169,"text":"也加進來我想這個才是對全台灣均衡發展而且報告委員不只是這個數字的改變就人口而言65歲以上10歲以下的人口我們要加全記眾讓他能夠有多的一些分配額表示我們對老人家對小孩子兒少有更多的照顧而且土地也不是數字的調整榮林榆木他代表各種不同的土地利用價值我們有分別來計算所以這是一部合理全面穩定的院版的才化法"},{"start":2160.411,"end":2184.018,"text":"這樣子其實中央可以統籌分配到這些地方的計劃型補助才有寬裕的空間也就是說高雄的捷運子線還有目前高雄的路竹延伸線還有這個林園延伸線也會順利不會去拖到而且報告委員我來自台北市"},{"start":2184.847,"end":2207.271,"text":"不能台北市過去拿中央這麼多的補助做了這麼多的捷運現在換到中南部要做捷運了卻中央的補助減少了這對中南部絕對不公平身為台北市民我敢這樣的負責所有的台北市民也不會希望這樣來對待全國的國人所以一定要公平的去分配我們也希望捷運是進步的象徵各個縣市該有我們就全力來協助"},{"start":2208.191,"end":2234.226,"text":"謝謝院長另外還有這個我們捷運子縣其實通過醫學院那還有私運主場館那還有整個七所大學三個醫療中心這個其實我不斷的在追蹤包含在委員會也跟陳部長追蹤那目前在下個月高雄市政府就可以把修正計畫再送到交通部我們還是不放棄我們希望相關的這些建設在西部的部分我們會繼續"},{"start":2235.266,"end":2246.39,"text":"跟交通部跟鐵道局這邊來做一些努力那另外我也跟交通部爭取的就是你知道嗎2007年高鐵通車08年高雄捷運紅線通車之後其實"},{"start":2251.55,"end":2269.219,"text":"我們在鐵路的部分我們有做一個連通道到高雄捷運但是很遺憾2008年之後的中央政府就沒有把這個連通道做到高雄捷運那造成目前我們在爭取這個連通道的時候他必須"},{"start":2270.598,"end":2293.836,"text":"在既有的月台在高鐵繼續行駛的狀況下去做這個連通道短短的不到50米可能要耗費超過10億的預算工程越晚做工程進行期間來做確實會影響到這個工程造價的經費如同捷運黃線一開始評估1000多億到現在可能要2000多億"},{"start":2295.217,"end":2311.213,"text":"捷運子線也一樣高鐵聯通道也一樣但是我感謝院長感謝部長在高鐵聯通道這一方面先做了已經在做細部的設計那也同步可能明年初希望就可以動工這個請部長來回應一下"},{"start":2312.162,"end":2329.595,"text":"好 謝謝委員感謝委員一直在爭取確實在高鐵站裡面直接能夠透過連通道走到捷運那個對高雄市民來講是最方便的方法那過去沒有做那我們現在來做那高鐵公司也跟我們鐵道局在合作目前大概編列12億的預算"},{"start":2330.956,"end":2351.941,"text":"要來做這個連通道這個其實如果在08年中央政府就做的話我想這個應該是一兩億就可以解決了應該價格會差非常多所以先前的佈局非常的重要我們現在也是在為城市未來的發展來做準備第二個我在這邊感謝卓院長新台17線原本我們估計"},{"start":2353.206,"end":2381.793,"text":"大概十幾億就可以完成那經過包含這個國防部的這些代差代件的計畫這些攻堅計畫等等也感謝工程會在去年很關鍵的協調了國防部那也讓行政院批示了這個攻堅計畫目前的這個進度正在替國防部興建新的戰備跑道興建完成之後其實這整個新台時期"},{"start":2382.693,"end":2399.379,"text":"進入難斷的二期三期就會非常的快速有機會在明年可以順利完成那也很抱歉這一條基線從過去可能評估在20億裡面的經費那不斷的努力現在居然要高達60幾億"},{"start":2400.999,"end":2415.145,"text":"但是這一條對高雄對TSMC旁邊的園區來講太重要了目前台積電一個廠外面的翠華路在上下班時間已經塞到高雄市政府又拓寬 它已經塞車了"},{"start":2416.825,"end":2434.715,"text":"所以新台17線未來還是扮演著北高雄產業園區包含橋樓科學園區到台積電男子科學園區等等的這些南北向的交通在這邊感謝卓院長去年快速的批示我們目前對於"},{"start":2438.157,"end":2459.991,"text":"國家重點領域校際研究園區我們還是希望可以有足夠的經費趕快佈局讓人才的部分也可以快速的進入高雄讓人才的部分也可以讓台積電有人才可以用讓高雄也變成高雄的二奈米重鎮我想這是指日可待"},{"start":2461.011,"end":2475.187,"text":"另外再一次跟院長請命之前院長帶著一架A330的華航飛機來到高雄再跟院長說明一下"},{"start":2476.479,"end":2501.586,"text":"我們還是希望新款的飛機A350以及波音787可以佈局高雄可以讓國航把這個A350跟B787波音787可以佈局高雄我知道他們在買飛機啦但是現在桃園現在松山就有的飛機是不是可以用適時的鼓勵佈局高雄過去"},{"start":2502.679,"end":2521.152,"text":"我們在高雄市爭取的時候就說高雄的跑道太短沒有辦法飛波音777沒有辦法飛A380這個是過去比較實行在飛歐美澳的航班但是現在主流的航班機型就像現在的汽車2000CC就很厲害了"},{"start":2521.812,"end":2537.974,"text":"不用開到3000CC像現在的飛機A350跟B787它就已經是飛跨州航線的主流了不用在B777不用在A380而且沒有跑道的問題了第二個宵禁的問題我也給院長參考"},{"start":2538.635,"end":2561.174,"text":"你帶來的A330的航班其實在不管是飛大阪或者是飛釜山其實也在高雄航空高雄小港機場這邊帶來很好的成績載客都八成以上高雄確實就有這個運量也希望院長跟部長這邊來趕快努力希望把A350B787調度到小港機場讓"},{"start":2562.935,"end":2577.227,"text":"美國這些可能台積電的客戶讓可能想要來台灣參加這些大型演唱會就在高雄市運主場館的這些朋友們可以直接搭乘跨州航班來到高雄機場"},{"start":2578.288,"end":2599.836,"text":"是目前美國聯合航空從高雄飛日本轉東京轉東京這個載客率都80以上82%載客率那未來華航跟長榮都會引進A350跟B787的新型的客機星宇也有其他321的客機那我再請部長來協調新的客機能不能也安排有"},{"start":2600.716,"end":2617.103,"text":"合理適當的班次能夠到高雄的下崗機場部長有很多方式包含這些停機的這些鼓勵啦或者是這些國航其實配合一下國家發展也是非常有必要而且我也一再的證明"},{"start":2617.583,"end":2636.524,"text":"高雄小港機場相關的航班運量是絕對沒有問題的也希望部長這邊可以趕快跟華航這邊做一些指示也做一些具體的評估我不要再等它2027年現在才2025年明年還有一整年的時間我們希望明年可能"},{"start":2637.105,"end":2647.921,"text":"第二季第三季就有看到可能可以飛澳洲可能可以飛LA甚至可能可以飛舊金山西谷的這些航班也出現在高雄"},{"start":2649.97,"end":2672.085,"text":"謝謝委員 這個是高雄很多鄉親的期望那明年長榮跟華航就像院長所說的會補充新的機隊那星雲航空也有希望要到高雄去明年就會有些新的機隊會進來我們明年就會來安排一些去跟國際航空來溝通看可不可以安排一些新的大型的飛機到高雄去目前看起來運量是很夠的謝謝院長"},{"start":2672.645,"end":2683.494,"text":"那再次為高雄建設請命支持行政院版本的裁劃法 謝謝謝謝李委員 請委員支持 謝謝好 謝謝李博義委員質詢謝謝卓院長 交通部長備詢 謝謝我們接下來請邱若驊委員質詢羅廷維委員請準備"},{"start":2709.295,"end":2712.698,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢各位好院長好 院長早院長 首先本席想請問您個人一個問題普發一萬元 院長您會去領這一萬塊普發一萬塊的錢嗎"},{"start":2735.134,"end":2764.33,"text":"因為我有帳戶它是自動入款所以它已經撥進來了所以您有用這一萬元去沒有 我還沒有用它我想我會把它用到適當的地方去我說過我認為國家或是其他人民會更需要的比如說我鼓勵大家現在都去買一些豬肉來吃也不錯本席也有看到院長您就是以行動去支持去吃豬肉新聞報導也說院長您希望國人把這一萬塊用在國旅跟吃豬肉想必你也知道"},{"start":2764.89,"end":2783.202,"text":"不過現在國旅的狀況不是很好所以才會做出這個呼籲可是政府不能只是叫人民去消費然後不去處理國旅本身存在的問題所以今天本先要和院長來討論我們國旅的問題我們先來看到今年前七個月台灣出境的旅遊人數高達1087萬人次"},{"start":2786.344,"end":2811.269,"text":"年增10.5%而且是連續兩年都增加超過10%預估全年出國人數甚至可能會突破1850萬人次再創新高可是反觀我們國內同期入境的旅客僅435萬人次今年年增率不到10%之外今年交通部8月中的時候又再一次下修今年來台"},{"start":2812.864,"end":2827.723,"text":"旅客的預估量從原本的千萬人次變成了九百萬人次我們看到國人選擇出國玩卻很少觀光客來到台灣來旅遊國旅沒有被帶動而且還呈現明顯的流失院長您認為問題出在哪裡呢"},{"start":2828.394,"end":2853.089,"text":"當然我們全世界對台灣最著名的觀光景點就是我們太魯閣經過0403地震之後到現在還沒有全數恢復而且今年我們來了這麼多的颱風也讓很多人在安排的時候受到了一些影響另外就國內來看就國旅來看我們的交通還有我們的住宿都應該有一些政策的支持所以"},{"start":2854.11,"end":2876.404,"text":"交通部確實是提出了對一些國內住宿旅遊優惠的一些政策院長您提到太魯閣像我們台灣不只太魯閣這一個景點再來是我們看到過去在質詢的時候也有提到就是說因為一席的關係本席有看到日本2024年已經突破了3100萬旅客這個數字是超越"},{"start":2876.864,"end":2894.073,"text":"疫情之前的那鄰近的國家像是韓國還是馬來西亞呢他們也都回到了八九成反觀我們台灣去年2024年的下半年只有回到六成到七成嘛那針對我們目前國裡的情況那院長您剛剛也有提到旅宿的問題您認為是什麼問題呢"},{"start":2896.484,"end":2911.378,"text":"大家有分析說我們的國內的住宿是不是應該價格更合理還有我們交通網的服務是不是能夠更全面更周全那我認為這個都是交通部在明年提出的推升內需當中要增加觀光"},{"start":2913.54,"end":2934.371,"text":"對這個國內旅遊部分的一個重要的政策從明年3月開始他就會有全面的比方說平日的住宿假日生日的補助等等都有相關的這個剛剛我已經在外面說明過院長其實從去年我們就可以看到2020年全國的出國人次約1684.9萬人次那外國旅客來台的人次他是785.7萬"},{"start":2936.352,"end":2957.853,"text":"那兩者相差了將近899萬的人次那關於我們看產值的逆差金額那國人出國消費的總積額是1兆190億那外國旅客來到台灣所創造的產值是326.7億那觀光的產值逆差就高達了6,922.3億那我們再來看到Yahoo有針對我國的"},{"start":2959.714,"end":2986.443,"text":"觀光的整個環境來進行一個調查那針對我們國內的旅遊有57.4%的民眾表示非常不滿意還有不滿意那相對的認為滿意還有還算滿意的只有24.9%其實近幾年來我們國人對台灣國旅的抱怨也已經不是新聞了那我們再看到一個數據這是觀光署做的調查報告"},{"start":2989.681,"end":2995.543,"text":"那我們可以看到觀光署的旅遊狀況調查的比例都高達99%院長您相信這個數字嗎滿意度99對 這是觀光署做出來的數據這不應該有這樣的結果我不會相信這樣的數字可能它的問題的設定是怎麼樣但是都不應該有這樣的數字"},{"start":3010.058,"end":3024.543,"text":"其實這個落差政府手上的評估數據與國人實際的感受是落差這麼大所以耳本先生也在想這樣我們做出這個數字我們能夠期待政府能夠發現問題嗎那我們再來部長不好意思 委員跟您補充一下"},{"start":3025.339,"end":3047.492,"text":"您剛剛所說的這個國旅的逆差或者是人數的逆差就是出國的多那來國內玩的少這個不是今天才發生這個已經持續36年因為台灣是一個外貿型的國家當台灣的經濟的狀況好的時候其實我們出國的人數會蠻多36年前到現在今年已經大概37年了這30幾年其實都是同樣的狀況"},{"start":3049.133,"end":3073.722,"text":"那這幾年當然大家希望我們現在這個國外的旅客來台灣的人數希望能夠恢復到疫情之前也跟委員報告如果扣除大陸旅客來說的話我們的這個水準已經幾乎快要跟疫情之前差不多了已經幾乎快要跟疫情前差不多可是這兩年我們不斷的下修就是來台旅客的預估"},{"start":3074.863,"end":3087.297,"text":"跟委員報告這幾年疫情過後的這幾年其實每年都增長您應該也很清楚您在交委會去年比前年來台灣玩的人數增加了100多萬"},{"start":3088.899,"end":3113.991,"text":"那今年當然因為匯率的問題台灣的匯率相對高而且我們颱風今年也不少沒有增長的像去年這麼多一百多萬但今年至少也會增長的四五十萬人來台灣部長您可以說增長了一百多萬可是我們今年前三季一到九月的觀光逆差已經高達八百零五萬人次了我跟委員報告已經三十六年來都是這個樣子三十幾年來其實都是這個狀況我們繼續接著看我們最近看到"},{"start":3115.421,"end":3124.368,"text":"先請教院長和部長如果你們要出去玩你們會考量的因素有哪一些呢出國在台 國旅的話"},{"start":3125.987,"end":3153.052,"text":"第一個當然是交通能夠方便住宿能夠非常舒服再來就是當地的景點它能夠有一個吸引力讓我去了解當地的歷史文化人物所以院長你認為是交通住宿跟景點的吸引力嗎那我們來看到一個新聞日前高雄有一所國小它公布明年的畢業旅行的行程是日本的大阪無日遊那也是在家長會的熱心贊助下學生只要自費五千元您知道這個新聞嗎我看過"},{"start":3153.692,"end":3161.516,"text":"有看過這個新聞嗎其實近幾年民眾的感受是出國玩比國旅還要便宜這是大家的共識"},{"start":3162.799,"end":3181.053,"text":"那業者也有做調查嘛那多數民眾他還是會以價格為主嘛決定他們要去哪裡玩為第一的要素那很多民眾為了生活打拼嘛那難得放假出門玩都想要放鬆想要開心那部長剛剛也有提到院長也有提到就是認為呂數的價格過高那院長您認為所以您認為現在呂數價格是不合理的嗎因為我們的"},{"start":3189.736,"end":3214.659,"text":"國內的旅遊都集中在假日所以非假日他們就在成本的計算來看就沒有辦法做很平均的分攤所以假日就會造成一無難求或者是價格會偏高曾經有一次我到南部去高速公路塞住我當場問部長說為什麼今天塞住他說那是連假的最後一天大家都要去南部做最後的一個假日的休息活動所以"},{"start":3215.441,"end":3231.437,"text":"就是集中在那幾點那平日都要他們負擔的成本比較大所以我們這裡推出了交通部推出了平日住宿優惠就希望引導一些國內的國人雖然交通部提出了這個平日的住宿優惠可是民眾覺得說這個看得到用不到啊因為他們平日就是要上班"},{"start":3232.888,"end":3260.459,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實像勞動部勞動部最近也一直在針對大家的請假的狀況勞工的權益做保障我們也一直希望說國人如果你有特休可以在平日來休假的話大家要勇敢去休假我們當然交通部這邊能夠做的是住宿的補助的方案希望鼓勵大家在平日去住其實大家用國外的旅宿跟台灣的旅宿有時候比較那不一定公平為什麼"},{"start":3261.172,"end":3277.061,"text":"你出國可能會是玩五天六天七天那其中有五天是平日那個價格平均算起來當然不會像台灣只有在假日玩這麼貴那如果在台灣其實我自己觀察整個旅宿在平日的這個價格其實沒有"},{"start":3277.501,"end":3298.319,"text":"真的這麼高這是一方面那二方面跟委員報告剛剛院長有提到說我們之前去南部看到南部在塞車那以南部的觀光來講時常有媒體說國旅崩盤那也會講墾丁雪崩那剛好那一週我就自己往南到墾丁去"},{"start":3299.8,"end":3318.945,"text":"第一人很多第二我跟那個旅宿業的業者我不要講哪間飯店我跟那個總經理問問說你們這個月狀況怎麼樣他跟我說報告部長我們破了開幕以來十月份最高營收所以其實國旅當然我覺得要加油要做得更好"},{"start":3319.865,"end":3336.415,"text":"但是實際上如果你以旅次來看的話在國內旅遊的人其實也還不少現在的人跟過去可能不太一樣現在可能一個月出去出遊個兩次三次很平常過去可能要半年或者三個月才會出遊一次"},{"start":3337.135,"end":3356.055,"text":"其實國旅的狀況像我們剛剛在講的有很多人在抱怨說國旅有一點很討厭除了房價以外就是會塞車為什麼會塞車其實就是人很多才會塞車部長我們繼續還是回來看到旅書的部分Yahoo也有做一個調查它有56.3%的網友就是投給住宿"},{"start":3359.278,"end":3381.336,"text":"高漲的住宿費是大家最不滿意的地方那天下雜誌也發現呢我國假日房價的漲幅高達38.4%那平均的價格也都是高於其他亞洲國家的那近日也有委員指出嘛在演唱會期間呢有業者 你說業者他一下子就把房價提升到平常房價的10倍啊面對委員的質詢呢"},{"start":3382.617,"end":3395.434,"text":"交通部則表示只要沒有高於合定的房價這一切都是市場的機制院長對於這樣兩手一擔的態度您能夠接受嗎本來這個很多就是市場機制只是它如果超乎常理"},{"start":3396.991,"end":3417.423,"text":"不正常的調整如果違反到我們公平交易的時候我們是有一些法源可以來依據的但現在我們必須要再進一步的了解到這個市場機制的競爭如果大家都這麼做那我們有沒有辦法跟業者來談一個自律的條約因為民眾每次就是有對房價的抱怨就是新聞出現那交通部和"},{"start":3418.567,"end":3436.906,"text":"業者的口徑都是一致的那表示沒有高於核定的房價都是市場機制嗎那部長院長你們知道這個機制是怎麼去這個核定房價制度是怎麼運作的嗎其實現在很多訂房的網站你只要很多人訂房價就會往上升"},{"start":3438.134,"end":3461.84,"text":"同樣一個房間同一個房型如果沒有人訂他房價就往下不只這樣子現在我們叫Uber也是如此同一個時段很多人叫他就會往上升這個就是市場的機制市場其實他事實上還有一個制度那旅宿業者他在申報合訂房價的時候他在申請設立的時候他是向當地的主管機關管理局還是地方的縣市政府來申報並取得合訂"},{"start":3462.6,"end":3489.857,"text":"那經過核定之後呢它業者的收費不能超過這個核定的價格那問題是實務上都是業者報多少政府就核多少在中央欠缺地方政府核定的標準指引下這個核定根本是變成了被查那業者普遍呢他會把上限訂得非常高所以平時他在怎麼樣販售他的房間啊這個售價都是不會超過的那我們看到政府上民意"},{"start":3490.397,"end":3517.014,"text":"有規範嗎可是實際上就是政府放任院長我們要如何改善這個問題不好意思跟委員報告因為旅宿業是一個市場的機制如果你說政府硬要用一套機制下去壓抑房價的話我覺得對整個市場的營運我認為會造成一些問題畢竟我們是一個自由經濟的市場"},{"start":3518.075,"end":3542.838,"text":"那旅宿我們當然幾個方面我們在想辦法就是包含說他們現在有缺工的問題那讓他們的成本很高那當然這個部分我們也盡量在努力那院長也已經在針對這個移工的部分中階技術人員怎麼樣去協助旅宿業讓他們可以降低他們的成本這個部分我們有在努力他的成本如果降我相信房價也應該會有所影響"},{"start":3544.119,"end":3569.831,"text":"那另外一個邏輯就是說大家都說呃旅宿業可能太貴於是住的人少但是我目前聽起來啦他們平日的價格其實沒有那麼貴所以我們會一直要鼓勵大家可不可以平日旅遊如果平日旅遊的話我相信關於房價我們一直在講說這個市場機制我們也要主要遵循這個自由市場的原則可是呢 粉絲有看到日本的旅宿業他們的是"},{"start":3570.191,"end":3585.336,"text":"有受到法規的約束喔它有防止烘台價格的法規雖然政府不能直接干預嘛那剛才本席提到也像院長提出我們是不是可以未來中央能不能訂定一個全國通用對房價的規範呢我說如果那這個"},{"start":3588.364,"end":3608.801,"text":"狀況嚴重的不合理超乎大家可以合理接受的範圍也對我們的公平交易的相關法則有所抵觸那我們應該事先跟業界跟產業界或是工會來談要不要有一個自律內部要有自律那我們才跟他談說這個自律是要大家共同遵守那我們才可以說那法律上要不要進一步來做"},{"start":3609.321,"end":3635.535,"text":"其實用法律去限定一個價格這到底不是自由市場的一個必要的機制但是如果他嚴重影響到人民的選擇的話他的價格哄抬已經到了十倍這已經是太誇張了所以部長我們可以怎麼樣來約束業者如果太不合理的哄抬你像高雄最近比較夯很多人去住飯店有人反應這樣他們的那個觀光局他們就會去稽查地方政府其實都有在做稽查的動作"},{"start":3636.215,"end":3655.814,"text":"就是說如果他抬高到不合理的狀況我相信地方政府也會來做處理我們剛剛在建議的就是說我們有沒有可能中央有一個比較大規模的指引這個部分我們來跟業者也一起來討論因為畢竟這個是私人的財產私人的商業行為我們跟工會來做討論"},{"start":3656.955,"end":3683.794,"text":"那我們也跟各個地方政府的觀光的主管機關我們一起來討論有沒有可能我們做出一個更合理的一個溝通因為飯店旅宿啦再怎麼好的旅宿都可能會有說五星級也有可能六星級七星級就是跟地方的觀旅局還有跟地方的業者在持續的溝通我來找他們來溝通一下我們台灣的觀光形象那院長我們再來看我們除了演唱會房價烘台的問題我們再來看到另外一個爭議"},{"start":3685.322,"end":3703.309,"text":"觀光署配合環境部的要求是今年元旦起就要求旅出業者不則再提供一次性的備品結果政策一上路問題就立刻發生了在光復廉價期間竟然有民眾接獲業者旅館業者的通知因應禁止提供一次性的備品大家連大碼錢都不提供了引發民怨"},{"start":3703.929,"end":3718.583,"text":"事實上在這個政策實行之前大家都擔憂國旅復甦的期間貿然禁止使用備品恐怕會引發各種的問題政策上路後我們有看到業者不僅另外販售備品"},{"start":3720.066,"end":3740.986,"text":"也同樣的就是廉價期間連大毛巾都不提供了嘛那讓民眾花同樣的錢就是獲得打折過後的服務還有更差的體驗對時光光屬束手無策任由業者自行解讀還有操作院長您怎麼看待這個現象我認為這個基於環保的理念做這樣的一個改變但是"},{"start":3741.834,"end":3761.93,"text":"一般的飯店他都會在固定的櫃台或是固定的地方當民眾有一次需要的時候基本的用品他還是會提供的但如果說有業者用這樣的方式把劣質的商品一次賣680元他這次是斷自己的後路以後沒有人會去而已啊我想這個是不聰明的一個做法"},{"start":3762.39,"end":3780.869,"text":"環境部規定旅宿業者就是不得提供一次性的備品嗎故意有環保的理念還有考量嗎那我們看看別的國家的做法日本多數的飯店會把備品放在大廳供住客自由取用該節省的節省那也不會縮減他們的服務品質那相較之下台灣的備品卻變成還要另外"},{"start":3782.05,"end":3810.151,"text":"來做付費的那這樣也變相的讓業者節省成本那甚至於剛剛我們有看到嘛有的業者更是趁勢的以高於市價的價格來販售劣質的備品那這樣子沒有達到環保的免疫那也讓旅宿業者以環保的理由降低他們的成本增加他們的盈利那我們要如何確保不會有在這樣的情形發生呢我認為在這個競爭這麼激烈的這個商場的模式商業的模式"},{"start":3811.867,"end":3824.043,"text":"選擇這樣的方式的業者確實不聰明我認為這是極少數但是我也希望交通部能夠跟地方的相關單位去看一下如果真的有這樣在提供的話第一個要勸解要阻止再來就是當"},{"start":3825.414,"end":3850.477,"text":"這個被揭露出來之後這家飯店或者旅宿業他的信譽會掃地真的是對他來講是我們很難確保其他的業者不會跟進這樣子的做法所以我們希望這成為一個就是住宿的亂象之前部長這邊也請觀光署然後還有還是我們地方政府的觀旅局一起和業者溝通做調整然後也避免這樣子的情況在下一次的廉價又再一次發生"},{"start":3850.697,"end":3875.592,"text":"向委員報告如果有聽到類似這樣子的狀況我們其實都會通報到地方的觀光的主管單位地方政府請地方政府去做稽查像您剛剛所提到的不提供大毛巾或者是毛巾這件事情那個時候是在網路上的匿名的一個說法然後就變成媒體的報導那我們也馬上請雲林縣政府趕快去做稽查有沒有這麼一回事"},{"start":3876.473,"end":3891.932,"text":"查過之後其實沒有這麼一回事委員在講的我認為很合理就是說我們不主動提供飯店不主動提供但是就像日本的那種方式在旁邊我不主動放在你房間但如果你有需要的話可以免費索取的一些"},{"start":3892.592,"end":3914.112,"text":"基本的備評是不是可以做這樣子的溝通這方面我請觀光署這邊一起來努力跟業者也好 跟地方政府也好我們一起來努力做這件事情好 謝謝部長那我們在接下來看到院長 不管是房價 還是飯店它的房間 它的公共空間它的清潔 還是隔音設備或是位於接待流程 訂房"},{"start":3915.314,"end":3932.329,"text":"資訊的透明度還有停車接駁安排都未必能夠與它的價格匹配政府長期以來補助旅宿業者結果很多業者他追求的是補助最大化不是品質的最大化所謂的旅宿評鑑多數都只是做表面走一個流程無助於品質的提升"},{"start":3932.99,"end":3957.347,"text":"那政府每年還要振興國旅那發補助一次又一次那補助變成業者的長期補貼反而養成業者對政府的依賴那補助本來就是要改善幫助業者他們改善他們的體質不是撐到下一波的補助嘛那部長您認為觀光部長觀光署目前有沒有提出一個計畫要來重新檢討旅宿的評鑑標準"},{"start":3959.203,"end":3974.557,"text":"評鑑的標準我一直認為整體的觀光的KPI應該要重新去設定什麼時候設定這個部分我們已經都在開會在討論當中包含對於旅宿的也好或者是說對於整體的國家的觀光品質的那個KPI"},{"start":3975.404,"end":3993.743,"text":"我們應該要重新來討論因為現在已經在不同的時代亞洲各國也好或者是觀光比較盛行的國家他們對於整個觀光的整體的KPI的設定都不一樣那包含委員在講的這個旅宿我們來加強就是說針對他的一些KPI針對他的要求我們來做不一樣的設定"},{"start":3994.424,"end":4023.742,"text":"那請你儘快有討論出一個結果那院長您認為這個旅宿的評鑑標準他是不是應該要和品質綁在一起未來我們就是要求業者的品質有到達我們才給予補助我希望交通部能夠檢討剛剛說的這個評鑑的內容那針對有在進步的我們給予多一點的鼓勵但是他如果停滯不前的我們有多一點的輔導給他那對於那些服務不好的我想透過市場的機制在這麼競爭的市場上面他會自己感受到壓力"},{"start":4024.346,"end":4048.332,"text":"所以我們希望真的院長你有提到嗎總統有提到戴總統有提到我們要以觀光立國那我們希望可以就是真的檢討改革我國的房價制度然後也同時來訂定一個最低的標準讓消費者也可以掌握就是平台抽成的訊息這樣子國慮率才真的可以達到物有所值讓民眾願意來支持國慮院長可以嗎"},{"start":4049.059,"end":4058.312,"text":"對 我們現在全力在推動國旅我剛剛說過現在交通部觀光署在明年會推出的平日住宿的優惠光是這一項就編了有16億"},{"start":4059.925,"end":4084.528,"text":"再加上生日住宿也有優惠生日住宿也有優惠帶動整個觀光的經濟也希望各縣市都能夠受惠院長我們來看到地方的問題桃園的北橫國家風景區從最初的核定規劃到行政院拍板還有相關預算的分配定級資源的盤點到底是停在哪個環節導致這個進度停滯不前部長 院長"},{"start":4086.335,"end":4109.969,"text":"跟委員報告這個我們在今年的六月我們有開過會議了我們的委員會議今年有開過研商會議那不過這個還是要經過一個程序因為這個應該是算是在原民的領域啦所以我們需要原民部落的同意地方政府就多次提出中央核定後但是後續的跨部會的協調是不足的而且這個審查中期冗長"},{"start":4111.19,"end":4118.944,"text":"而且審查的機制缺乏明確的時程表那目前政府跨區的國家風景區模式人事觀光署主責部長沒有錯吧"},{"start":4120.632,"end":4145.832,"text":"目前這個跨區國家的跨區風景區是觀光署在主持可是土地的管理還有林地的申請交通動線部落法規自然保護區的接線認定都牽涉到不同部會部長您認為所以沒有院長的支持是很支持是很難繼續推動下去的沒有錯那院長您對於這個國家風景區的成立您的態度是北橫國家風景區的成立"},{"start":4146.96,"end":4163.931,"text":"它的條件因為現在北橫我們知道它的這個公路的系統並不是完全非常的穩定所以交通部是先做了很多在公路邊坡防災的改善計畫我覺得這個要先做但同時國家風景區如果要進一步的"},{"start":4164.651,"end":4185.268,"text":"推動的話那同時可以併進本席知道交通部一直以來對於我們桃園復興區的公路系統一直都是非常的支持不管是邊坡還是道路的優化改善本席也要讓院長知道北橫的沿線過去的觀光成果其實十分的耀眼可是現在面臨新的挑戰遊客更多了然後它的景點分布也是廣的"},{"start":4185.928,"end":4214.747,"text":"交通壓力高在欠缺完整的規劃下地方的經濟沒有辦法被串聯起來而我們桃園復興區的旅宿還有餐飲 伴手禮 農特產品也都欠缺國家級的品牌院長 我們都尊重部落相信這個立場你我是一致的嘛那目前桃園復興區的範圍就有六成的部落他表示贊成那本席認為中央不應該因為他沒有打到百分之百就把這個案子暫時的擱著那既然中央同意北橫有成立的空間那院長是不是可以來"},{"start":4216.128,"end":4235.022,"text":"由行政院主導呢或是要求園民會主政那不扯協調離去現在的法律衝突我是建議交通部在現在對這個公路系統包括它的隧道、橋樑的工程在改善的過程當中也透過跟園民會一起"},{"start":4235.76,"end":4257.903,"text":"對部落的同意權我們能進一步當然能夠取得最大的共識將來再執行起來這個阻力困難會越少那剛剛我們現在還要做道路的這個改善同時來併進我先不討論道路的部分因為今年七月的時候桃園市政府他就有提出了地方部落的統一辦法還有資源共同管理辦法這兩法之間是存在著衝突地方沒有辦法治理"},{"start":4258.484,"end":4277.573,"text":"沒有辦法自行處理嘛需要中央的法治協助那中央總不能要地方一直解決問題然後不協助釐清難道我們要一直拖下去嗎根委員報告目前市政府那邊確實有針對原民組織跟原民部落的同意有做了一定的進度那目前還有28個原民部落"},{"start":4277.993,"end":4306.291,"text":"目前还没有这样子的组织会议那我们在等桃园的进度那委员刚刚有讲说有两个法在进行了我相信进度会有部长您提到在等桃园可是桃园也在等中央的协助因为官方署就有提出那在咨询同意的过程中因为过程它冗长又困难产生摯爱所以特别请中央来协助那今天本席向院长提出那是不是可以由原民会作为组织单位呢由原民会去沟通协调"},{"start":4307.291,"end":4332.573,"text":"原民會跟地方政府都要來跟地方的部落來進行這樣的溝通都必要的交通部因為是觀光主管部會而且工程的部分也在進行我想有他們來協同行政院能不能夠協助來召開協調會議我們這邊我們主動來找原民會大家一起來溝通看怎麼樣跟桃園市政府我們三方一起來做溝通什麼時候會有溝通的結果"},{"start":4333.655,"end":4361.233,"text":"您質詢完畢之後我等一下就去交代然後請他們去安排會議好不好是 那院長那本席也要讓您知道原民朋友並不是反對北橫國家風景區的成立只是他們不信任政府因為過去和政府的溝通對話都是零碎的有些部落可能他們這一輩子都沒有和政府有一個完整的對話和溝通那他們也會擔心就是這個風景區的成立那如何來管理狩獵怎麼來管水那資源要如何分配"},{"start":4361.753,"end":4384.449,"text":"那這些疑慮沒有被回應部落當然不會點頭贊成所以院長可不可以明確地要求原民會不要把自己定位成一個審查單位就只是審查同意和不同意而是要明確地把自己當作一個協商的設計者在北橫先建立一個示範的治理模式讓部落一剛開始就可以做上會議直接共同治理院長您認為呢"},{"start":4385.137,"end":4411.429,"text":"原民會當然不是也不會是一個高高在上的審查單位他跟所有的族群各部落應該是融合成為一片替他們服務所以做了很多的地方的服務站等等都是在服務鄉親的但是很多部分也要跟地方政府來配合很多的工作才執行的下去讓我會請原民部原民會在這個工作上跟交通部一起來努力也加入地方政府跟原民的部落多多的來做溝通爭取他們的同意"},{"start":4411.84,"end":4436.964,"text":"是 那院長剛才本席也有提到嘛目前部落是有六成部落他是同意的那現在推動的方式只要不是全部同意他就卡住了那院長您認不認同就是我們先讓願意加入的部落先串聯起來然後先納入然後讓他們推動治理那沒有同意還沒有同意的部落那我們也保留他未來可以加入的權利那院長您行政院是否認同這樣子分階段分區納入的思維呢"},{"start":4437.455,"end":4464.42,"text":"第一個還是要依照現在原民基本法相關的內容來看他一定要達到一定的程度才能夠來往前走所以法律的規定怎麼樣我會請交通部跟原民會共同跟地方政府來做更多的努力還是要請院長就是來協助因為如果沒有院長的協助真的是很難的請部長能夠直接處理您對於這個北橫國家風景區的成立態度是能夠"},{"start":4466.641,"end":4492.772,"text":"推升內需所需要的觀光產業觀光事業多增加景點這個當然也是交通部觀光署在他的整套計畫當中重要的一環所以我們不會只有北回之巔跟微笑南彎我們全國各地都會找更多的景點讓國際的觀光客知道台灣是一個美麗好玩的地方謝謝院長也請院長再責稱園民會再來我們看到台灣公車客運的駕駛荒院長這個是國安等級的問題嗎您認為"},{"start":4494.301,"end":4497.891,"text":"所以我們現在希望能夠引進更多的協助訓練更多的駕駛能夠來投入這個駕駛的工作"},{"start":4502.694,"end":4526.907,"text":"本席在地方聽到的這個問題沒有被解決是持續擴大目前缺700位駕駛全國公路的運輸市區的客運也缺1400位合計超過2100位過去本席就有在委員會問過交通部跟勞動部的口徑都是一致的有看到問題也試著解決現在目前這個問題解決到哪裡了交通部有"},{"start":4543.288,"end":4559.713,"text":"好謝謝邱若驊委員質詢謝謝卓院長交通部長備詢謝謝好接下來我們請羅廷維委員質詢賴銳龍委員請準備"},{"start":4571.124,"end":4593.665,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢羅文豪院長好 院長不好意思因為問政的需要想跟你請問一下請問你每天早餐跟午餐是否有人幫你備託有啊"},{"start":4594.733,"end":4622.807,"text":"是自己嗎 還是家人家人 還有或者是辦公室裡面的同事我想 院長這個我想跟你探討一個問題請問一下疾管署東區管制中心的簡大任主任他現在已經在7月2日被檢舉投訴說院長知道這個疾管署前署長莊仁祥 鄭豐市主任整個調查的過程嗎你知道嗎這個要請委員再提供詳細資料"},{"start":4623.957,"end":4639.362,"text":"他長期要求特定的女同仁幫他安排早餐午餐基層的員工看不慣匿名投訴但7月初二度象徵風勢檢舉結果投訴卻石沉大海我們看到的是"},{"start":4640.39,"end":4654.643,"text":"官官相護為什麼因為整個機關內部不是不知情在知情的狀況而且早有人陳情的狀況反應卻被人處理所以我現在看到的整個處理後續是口頭懲戒你認為這樣子對嗎"},{"start":4658.325,"end":4686.905,"text":"我想因為主管他如果因為公務的需要會務的進行有必須在這個時間當中有同事或是應該執行這個工作的同事幫他組備餐點或許可以考量或是會議當中公務進行但如果是長年指定一個非屬他公務該做的行為的同仁去做這個事情那這個就違反我們的公務人員的服務了我跟院長報告長期指定女同仁"},{"start":4688.037,"end":4709.671,"text":"而且已經有同仁看不下去檢舉我想為什麼要在特別今天交通的這個部分還要提出這一點我認為啊這是霸凌我們前有勞動部的謝宜龍案現在有這樣子的一個疾管署出現霸凌高壓的一個狀況我想院長您在之前已經很審慎的已經告訴所有的部會嚴查"},{"start":4711.818,"end":4739.21,"text":"所有的各部會對於霸凌的事件不能夠容忍可是現在我們看到連疾管署都有我希望院長你今天應該要直接在三日內公開處理的過程讓全國國人都能夠知道有一個交代我也希望院長在整個行政團隊中再一次的檢視我們已經檢視過了但還是有這樣子的案件竟然是石沉大海我也希望你不惜就責到前署長莊仁祥現在的嘗試"},{"start":4741.391,"end":4754.819,"text":"落實保護基層公務人員才能夠讓整體不管是任何的部會才能夠認真的做事為國人服務您可以宣示嗎我請衛國部先就前一次的調查結果提出詳細的說明"},{"start":4756.004,"end":4777.77,"text":"那麼我們如果認為這個內容還值得商榷那衛福部必須再重新再處理這個案子我會請衛福部向委員我希望院長要重視啊會好嗎好謝謝院長院長那另外呢就叫今天我們交通的議題想跟您請問國策顧問康迎壽在上週出席大台南的一個國際旅展有透露"},{"start":4779.15,"end":4794.098,"text":"賴總統特別交代他既然中國不去日本那我們現在就應該帶團去日本觀光現在交通部有規劃協助宣導嗎我跟委員報告我想總統的意思是當你要出國的時候你可以多選擇日本"},{"start":4795.254,"end":4814.17,"text":"不是 鼓勵國人沒有要出國 多到日本出國康明壽是說總統特別交代喔 盡快要組兩到三百人去日本旅遊 協助推廣日本的旅遊也許你要到別的國家去 你可以去日本我想國人本身就很喜歡去日本旅遊那我們現在是很希望國外的旅客多來台灣"},{"start":4815.11,"end":4833.143,"text":"這才是重點所以我要問的是國旅怎麼辦在整個交通部的角色我們到底是要先顧台灣國旅還是要先顧日本旅遊我們第一個希望國內的旅遊自己的國人能夠多多的參與國內旅遊再來國外的旅客也能夠多進來台灣那要出去的"},{"start":4833.956,"end":4863.063,"text":"因為國家一年出去的旅客相當多嘛那總統意思是說如果你要出去何不選擇日本我想我們的總統是中華民國的總統先顧國旅啊不要影響到國旅的業者而且我們要說啊在網友查詢十月底週末他就指出日月潭湖景房的一個價格比照前兩年他大概是兩萬多現在已經到五萬多了部長你覺得這樣子的一個同一個房景"},{"start":4864.103,"end":4881.5,"text":"然後兩萬多變成五萬多你覺得合理嗎跟委員報告日月潭有一些飯店我所知道他是房間有改變有調整有更新所以你覺得還是回歸合理的市場機制市場機制我們都必須要尊重因為那是私人的產業那私人的商業行為我們都尊重"},{"start":4881.9,"end":4902.319,"text":"我覺得尊重是一定的但是這個過程到底有沒有謹慎的去評估做鑑定這樣子的相關國旅的環境我們去做了解我想這個部分國人還是很擔心就是說整個國旅的現在價格現在你有說要推這個旅宿券對不對平日的旅宿券我們希望能夠鼓勵平日的旅遊"},{"start":4902.899,"end":4929.64,"text":"在明年要推出嘛一碗800兩碗1200再加第二碗1200總共2000可是你覺得這實際上可以幫助到國旅嗎我認為如果大家願意平日出去玩的話我相信對國旅是有幫助我們看到網路上的民調當然百分之五十幾覺得說這有機會能夠提升國旅但是也有很多人覺得說本身對於國旅不抱任何期待我希望說不只是這一支箭"},{"start":4930.501,"end":4959.67,"text":"能夠多管多元的去做這樣子的一個國旅推廣協助國旅業者這是我們現在的重點我也要跟部長講部長每次總統都喊出國家隊這次喊了觀光的一個國家隊但目前社會最大的疑問國家隊會不會又是口號過去九年我們看到雞蛋 口罩 AI 太空 電吧 打炸每一支國家隊成立都很轟動但是真正解決問題的到底有多少"},{"start":4960.612,"end":4982.911,"text":"院長你能不能提出一個具體的成效國家隊至少我們在現在委員所提的這幾項當中口罩不僅是國家隊還是世界隊啊給世界提出了很多解決的方式謝謝你提出口罩口罩本席有感還有呢要不要講講打炸雞蛋後來我們也解決了國內雞蛋荒的問題但是雞蛋也有很多的問題"},{"start":4984.531,"end":5011.498,"text":"有問題那司法調查水落石出調查出來但是我們解決的問題是真的這一次國家的一個觀光國家隊問題更明顯政府做了很多國際行銷品牌人才的宣示但最根本我覺得啦剛剛有其他委員關心但我覺得還有一個觀光旅客最重要的體驗就是台灣到底好不好走外國旅客普遍都說道路好可怕過馬路像闖關"},{"start":5013.047,"end":5042.002,"text":"行人的路燈紅綠燈還要小心車衝過來景點外常常人車攤販混在一起這些都不是地方問題而是全台共同的結構性問題已經變成台灣觀光的國際形象黑洞所以我認為觀光署升格後人只是一個三級機關面對跨部會顯得這個位階不足行政院現在有證官資但他只是一個諮詢平台沒有才事力"},{"start":5042.862,"end":5054.979,"text":"所以我想完全無法取代過去政官推的一個跨部會決策功能所以我想問院長請你回答觀光國家隊跟過去國家隊有哪些不同"},{"start":5056.164,"end":5074.48,"text":"他們現在能夠指出幾年能夠指出整個觀光的政策最不足的三點嗎有 我們在明年中央政府總預算裡面有一項重大的政策在裡面就是推升內需推升內需其中除了都更為老這個部分之外另外一個大項就是發展觀光"},{"start":5075.533,"end":5089.746,"text":"發展觀光要結合很多的因素剛剛委員所說的包括交通所以我要問嘛行政院是否願意重建像政官推這樣子的一個真正拒絕社訓我們現在已經有這個功能像觀光署提出的四年五百億"},{"start":5090.587,"end":5118.303,"text":"四年五百億的觀光的推升計畫已經提出來在院會裡面我們有討論過那這個會落實下去所以鄭關之他雖然諮詢來自各個業界的代表都來了他裡面的內容討論出來的決議我們在歷次的會議當中都會引用都會追尋下去我希望院長實際重視鄭關之讓他有機會在整個跨會會當中有立足點當然大家就會尊重他的一個建議所以我想"},{"start":5118.923,"end":5147.022,"text":"你願不願意把改善旅客行走的一個體驗納入觀光國家隊當然行人的安全這不只是觀光的問題把步行道路相關的一個觀光動線當成國家級的觀光任務嘛它不只是一個觀光任務它是國人安全的問題我們從內政部到交通部都一直在做一般道路學校周遭好自權威都一直在做講到交通安全我們下一個請待會院長稍微看一下"},{"start":5147.95,"end":5165.056,"text":"院長 接任院長這個到現在應該已經一年六個月在您任內在道路安全政策上做了些什麼你覺得很有感 有具體的成效可不可以跟我分享一下我剛剛說我們有四百個路口兩千個路口 四百個學校"},{"start":5165.996,"end":5185.36,"text":"周遭道路的行人道都改善了而且你看現在轉彎的地方我們都加大他的角度讓他不會用斜切的方式這個已經是在至少在硬體工程上我們做的這樣而且數目相當多本席在自己的選區也有受惠到這樣的一個建設這個部分本席認同還有呢"},{"start":5188.462,"end":5213.849,"text":"我來補充一下我個人的經驗比較有感的會是那個屁股島還有就是說以行人來說還有就是人行的過程當中行人早開實相或者是行人專用實相像逢甲那邊人多的時候行人專用實相我想這樣子具體的政策希望更多人受惠院長今天我跟院長要來討論這個請問一下院長你有沒有在路上看過這樣的車子"},{"start":5217.523,"end":5238.89,"text":"院長有嗎這是貨車吧貨車在卸貨裝貨的時候升降尾門在都會區幾乎商家上貨宅配運送全靠這類貨車完成整個物流但是院長你有沒有注意到那薄薄的金屬板這個白色的車一定會被他刮傷升降尾門他的問題已經不是行人了還有騎車開車全台灣都很關注這個議題"},{"start":5243.231,"end":5267.692,"text":"但是網友都說升降尾門是什麼行動斷頭台我跟院長報告升降尾門已經造成了兩起死亡車禍在今年小連夜新竹市發生一對夫妻直接撞上物流車的尾門雙雙不治2022年也發生了孕婦撞上撞上了大貨車的升降尾門上命"},{"start":5269.113,"end":5276.052,"text":"當升降尾門剛好與眼睛平行的時候它就是看起來像是一個反光線甚至看不見尾門"},{"start":5277.418,"end":5305.363,"text":"結果導致撞上我要講這個就只有這兩起死亡車禍嗎一定不止死傷的一定更多但是現在我要討論的是我在3月的時候今年3月開記者會要求交通部要重視這個問題在升降尾門加裝警示燈車尾期交通部也開了三次的會議包括113年6月9月114年3月三度討論但是都遲遲的未公佈要強制加裝"},{"start":5306.809,"end":5326.417,"text":"到現在4月19交通部公路局就發函各地要求加強宣導交通追的警示燈至今都沒有落實到現在這不就是一個行政怠惰難道要繼續去讓這樣子的憾事這樣子的車禍死亡繼續發生嗎"},{"start":5329.008,"end":5346.127,"text":"院長您怎麼回應部長說明一下這個過程跟委員報告您關心之後其實交通部就有交代要趕快來開會討論這件事您剛剛也有提到我們已經開了三次會那這個會議最後還是要到車安中心他們去討論說實際上怎麼樣執行因為他們有專業的研究"},{"start":5346.767,"end":5359.044,"text":"怎麼樣執行會比較好 十一月份我打斷你啦 車安中心的確有討論但車安中心找業者嘛車安中心沒有找所謂的行人或者是相關的消費者來參與討論跟委員報告這樣說啦貨車這個沒有消費者的問題啦"},{"start":5364.891,"end":5386.028,"text":"我認為是一般的用路人的安全這個很重要所以我們就安全來討論所以我希望是要用路人的代表或者是這樣子的團體去參與討論而不是只是單純的貨車業者物流業者業者跟業者之間的討論重點是到現在我看不到整體的宣示我希望院長"},{"start":5386.969,"end":5408.812,"text":"有沒有機會能夠明確的承諾在今年年底公告相關的法規甚至是要求116年1月1日起整體新車領排的貨車拖車應該要不論大小整體安裝這個升降尾門要有所謂的警示燈車尾期您覺得呢交通部再跟車站中心去要求"},{"start":5409.807,"end":5437.012,"text":"要求業者新車加裝可能要一段時間至少一個安全的標誌可以出現現在說用交通錐真的不行就已經有交通錐放在外面導致兩起死亡車禍有什麼用呢所以我希望是整體要整個在車尾門裝警示才是真正的交通部不會反對因為時間有限我最後再問我最後問一個問題就好請問一下部長"},{"start":5438.16,"end":5456.192,"text":"您擔任議員的時候 三線高價化烏日到大慶 當時估價多少錢我印象中沒有錯的話 很像五十幾億吧五十幾億 當議員的時候呢對 應該是五十幾億現在幾億了現在應該有七八十億了吧院長 這就是重點"},{"start":5457.469,"end":5473.374,"text":"台中 我們現在的烏日到大慶三線高架化 鐵路高架化從當時部長擔任議員五十幾億到現在已經八十幾億了台中市已經三度修正相關的計畫到交通部了可是交通部遲遲沒有同意沒有同意的原因是"},{"start":5474.845,"end":5487.358,"text":"因為要專案補助我覺得先有進度先有進度先通過經費再來喬嘛你再不喬一直每年都在加價所以我希望務必三線高價能"},{"start":5520.829,"end":5521.969,"text":"好 謝謝羅廷偉委員質詢謝謝卓院長 交通部長貝馨 謝謝"},{"start":5535.882,"end":5547.434,"text":"好接下來我們請賴瑞榮委員質詢廖仙翔委員請準備好謝謝韓院長請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":5558.897,"end":5586.203,"text":"村長 去年到今年南白國會多數強行通過了財化法兩次修正其實兩次的修正有相當多的問題對於國家財政跟地方的發展都有相當多問題但我特別關切的是這個過程中我們看到台北增加了400多億而高雄最後失之損失了將近200億這讓南北失衡更加嚴重我認為這是一個重北輕南的財化法"},{"start":5587.103,"end":5606.039,"text":"院長同意這樣的看法嗎他原始的計算公式這個新版就是去年通過的這個新版計算公式非常的簡化將人口土地面積這樣就很簡化的數字像現在院版的才化法有人口結構老年多的年輕人小孩多的人會增加"},{"start":5606.479,"end":5629.869,"text":"台北拿到了400多億 全台灣最多高雄損失了將近200億而裡面全部用整個營業這些的來加重照剛剛那個算起來就像營業額加算起來工廠可能是在中南部在高雄但是他的計算是在台北而且又加重了這樣的權重院長認不認同我的看法這是一個重北輕難的一個才化法南白國會多數通過的"},{"start":5630.789,"end":5659.111,"text":"過去十幾年來我們一直在平衡這個作用但是過去十幾年以前這個南北這種北清南的狀況是愈發的嚴重那最近幾年我們一直在調整那這個採化法你認為呢有沒有確實加重了這樣的問題他特別對特定幾個縣市幾個城市特別的優惠對北部的特別的好對南部的特別不好嘛這個感受的明顯對中部的也不好對雲林苗栗也不好對啊所以中南部都不好嘛"},{"start":5659.571,"end":5684.358,"text":"台北拿到400多億負者越負 貧者越貧這對台灣絕對是一個負面的影響所以我支持院版的財化法我也希望盡快來審議不容易因為財化法大家都想要分到更多的錢但是很困難所以才20幾年沒辦法修那也謝謝行政院終於也提出來了那我提出來之後也希望朝野競速來支持不要讓縱北 青南加大南北差距加大這對台灣絕對長遠是個錯誤的方向謝謝請委員支持"},{"start":5688.059,"end":5716.798,"text":"謝謝那再來我請教一下院長那如果這個財化法最後沒有得到支持的話那會怎麼處理先說好了行政院版的財化法如果先講原來立法院的財化法最後院裡面會怎麼處理會提復議嗎還是用不附屬的方式處理嗎我們現在幾乎有四個版本一個是已經被廢棄不用的財化法但是今年的總預算是依照這個舊版編的那明年編的總預算是依照"},{"start":5717.839,"end":5735.742,"text":"去年通過的新版的裁划法那現在又有上個禮拜通過的11月14號通過一個再修版的裁划法所以一共有三個裁划法現在院版再提出一個院版的裁划法那現在我們希望院版的裁划法是經過跟地方六次以上的溝通"},{"start":5736.323,"end":5759.805,"text":"而且裡面的計算公式最合理應該可以取得最大的共識能夠放到大院裡面來討論至少能夠有個橫頻的討論的機會那如果院版的裁判法現在看來是民眾黨並不支持的國民黨內部大概意見分歧啦因為中南部的立委們大概也面對相當大的壓力那如果院版的裁判法沒有得到支持的話那對於立法院通過的這個裁判法那院長會採取"},{"start":5761.446,"end":5781.48,"text":"負益或者採取不附屬的方式處理現在對於今年11月14號通過的我們所謂債修版的財化法我說過因為它會大幅的提升整個政府的舉債這個舉債達到5600億已經超過我們公債法的上限所以我不能編 行政不能編編出來就是一個違法的預算"},{"start":5782.458,"end":5811.347,"text":"所以我們希望明年的總預算已經依照新版的裁判法在編了如果現在變動那對整個施政的穩定性所以對剛剛通過立法院的這個裁判法的部分行政院是採取它是無法運作的我們希望如果這個時候有機會來看院版的裁判法行政院版的裁判法用審計院版裁判法的這個動作讓所有的現在的裁判法討論到現在停止讓院版裁判法變成唯一可行"},{"start":5811.627,"end":5837.648,"text":"所以院長的想法是暫時先不處理立法院通過的新的裁判法而先處理院版的裁判法如果朝院達成共識的話那就能夠解決所有裁判法的問題了這是最完美的一個方案是嗎這是解決問題的開始而已這應該是最好的方式我們期待立法院盡速來審議審議完成之後重新建構這個裁判法之後來解決掉這一年多來裁判法的爭爭上個禮拜五我得到的訊息是這個樣子"},{"start":5838.528,"end":5864.443,"text":"我們也期待這應該是最好的方法也是減少政治紛爭的方法也是減少財政紛爭的一個方法再來我想請教一下其實發電的部分南電北送這是一個常態高雄的發電量是全台第一台北沒有電廠也不發電的前陣子還在計較台北市還在計較電要2億的一個水廠的一些電價的問題我認為非常的不公平"},{"start":5865.163,"end":5881.586,"text":"中南部長期的負擔北部的用電南電北送這樣的狀態我們認為這個非常的不公平對於發電者不斷的在發電用電者反倒這個不發電以外同時還遭傷癮之還吸引更多人口的居住這個其實是不公平的"},{"start":5882.426,"end":5909.425,"text":"我反映過了 包括南電北送造成了217億的虧損217億的虧損 這個都應該要面對所以我主張差別電價對於有發電的縣市給予比較優惠的一些價格對於不發電的縣市給予不同的一個價格能夠來改善電廠設置的問題同時也改善電力輸送所造成的耗損的一些問題院長同意這樣看法嗎 差別電價"},{"start":5910.725,"end":5926.758,"text":"這個建議當然會改變影響到整個台電成本的計算我們認為現在除了發展多元的綠能之外能夠在合理可以設置的電廠我們能夠在普遍的把它按照工程的預定計畫來設計出來之後"},{"start":5928.519,"end":5947.475,"text":"整個南電北送 南北差額較為減少每個人都要用電 但是沒有人想發電所以說有差別電價的發生的時候才能讓更多縣市去認真面對這個問題你不能只要求用電而不發電桃園三街大堂的這個接收站自來之後觀塘那整個發電就會更大起來"},{"start":5948.075,"end":5972.567,"text":"那我們在市階之後整個新的電廠也會隨時我們會增加北部中部的發電量因為這樣我知道這是一個不容易的問題但是也唯有討論差別電價的問題的時候才能讓更多的縣市認真去面對電力的問題不然大家都只想用電而不願意發電這對於在願意發電的城市來說是非常的不公平我說這個會改變到台電的成本的計算台電應該去考慮這個事情"},{"start":5973.968,"end":5993.108,"text":"我是說在這個同時我們增加北部地區的發電的設備發電廠讓他能夠更新提升效能院長能不能認真的思考演繹這個問題差別電價但作為演繹結果是確實並不可行但是我認為政府要認真去思考討論這個問題的時候才能夠讓更多的國人正視這個問題"},{"start":5994.429,"end":6013.929,"text":"正式的環境正義發電的正義的問題正是南電北送造成的耗損虧損讓政府損失了217億的問題正是南部發電污染嚴重而北部用電卻占盡了很多便宜才化法還可以分到更多錢這樣的問題才能夠被凸顯出來我希望院長正視這個問題我會請經濟部來台電"},{"start":6016.592,"end":6043.092,"text":"一個月內研議好不好 研議結果當然有可能是還要在但是至少願意思考這個問題我認為就是在面對問題的開始 好不好一個月內對於差別廉價提出行政院的一些研議方案 好不好 好 謝謝再來我想請教一下這也是一個重大問題小旭城說鄭麗文的兩岸路線是一國兩區的路線 院長同意這樣的說法嗎一國兩區你同意嗎"},{"start":6044.724,"end":6050.951,"text":"中華民國只有台澎金馬我的答案很簡單院長現在如果講一國兩區這個一國會是哪一國"},{"start":6053.544,"end":6074.675,"text":"我們在這裡講當然是講中華民國但是中共講的絕對是中華人民共和國而現在很多的人會被誤導認知的一國只有中華人民共和國所以當現在這個時間點在講述一國兩區的時候很容易就是對應了中共的說法就是陷入到了中華人民共和國而台灣變成了其中的一個區"},{"start":6076.115,"end":6104.713,"text":"這會是一個統戰的陷阱這會是一個認知作戰這會是一個誤導全世界認為台灣接受這樣的說法所以我們認為台灣的任何一個政黨的領袖講出這樣的話其實都並不恰當的院長同意這樣的看法嗎沒有錯我覺得還是剛剛那句話中華民國就是台澎金嘛我們現在在這裡有效的行使我們的民主政治在這裡台澎金嘛至於大陸那個土地那是中華人民共和國所有"},{"start":6105.455,"end":6129.74,"text":"他的治權他的統治權都在那裡現在沒有人會相信台灣有能力去直接再繼續統治這個中共的這個土地沒有人會相信全世界沒有人會相信所以現在講的一國兩區最後結果就是台灣中華民國被消滅中華民國台灣被消滅掉所以我們認為國內的各政黨領袖應該要很清楚認知應該站在台灣這一邊而不是站在中共那一邊"},{"start":6130.26,"end":6144.256,"text":"我們認為這個才對得起所有台灣人民院長應該同意這樣的看法吧完全同意而且中華民國台灣他就是一個完完全全的主權獨立的國家守護中華民國 守護台灣是我們這一代台灣人民很重要的一個責任跟使命"},{"start":6145.757,"end":6168.766,"text":"謝謝再來我請教一下南台灣的部分現在一個小港機場很好用但是我們看到東京有成天雨田首爾有仁川金埔上海有虹橋浦東都有很多的包括北台灣也有松山跟桃園機場南台灣能不能設立一個24小時起降的機場不管是他在南興在彌陀或在哪個地方都可以"},{"start":6169.586,"end":6193.117,"text":"讓南台灣有另外一個24小時的起降機場這個能不能啟動開始研議研議到完成還要相當長的時間能不能啟動這樣的研議讓南台灣有一個24小時起降的機場我知道委員一直很關切在南台灣高雄有一個24小時不受航管限制的一個機場那我們也在做這樣的思考所以我也去看過所謂南星計畫等等"},{"start":6193.897,"end":6210.409,"text":"那現在交通部也應該再有這樣的思考但是我是覺得在思考的過程當中我們首先還是把小港機場的新航廈能夠把它拓展起來院長這兩個不衝突新航廈我們繼續再做但是要啟動一個20小時新的海上機場需要相當長的時間那我認為應該要啟動了"},{"start":6213.431,"end":6235.198,"text":"開始啟動相關的評估規劃因為他需要時間他要經過選址 經過環評經過各種的海象的評估經過空域的協調等等很多工作我希望能不能在今年開始正式來啟動這樣一個規劃正式啟動規劃我們已經在啟動為了因應將來南部的大的整個科技的發展24小時的貨運"},{"start":6236.058,"end":6255.311,"text":"因為南台灣不只是高雄包括台南的包括屏東的半導體產業也都在發展所以未來一個24小時的貨運等等是很重要所以我現在第一點的選擇工程的技術方面交通部都在規劃所以院長我們今年開始正式啟動這樣24小時啟動的開始評估跟思考"},{"start":6256.893,"end":6272.701,"text":"這個沒有問題 我們都在研議當中委員也建議過好多次我們會持續來研議這個議題因為南部確實需要一個更好的機場24小時的機場這是南部很多鄉親跟委員的期望院長 部長可不可以一個月的時間給我"},{"start":6274.362,"end":6299.853,"text":"整體的規劃評估的時程啦好不好就是包括評估這個至少我們可以預估大概是什麼時候因為包括新航廈的完成之後的甚至於未來長遠的包括高雄南台灣的整個發展狀況也給我們一個評估的狀況好不好就是說一個月的時間評估出來如果要朝這樣這樣的話大概多久可以選址完成大概多久可能要開始思考好不好一個月的時間我們一個月的時間來跟委員做報告給我一個書面報告好嗎"},{"start":6300.509,"end":6325.513,"text":"好 謝謝 再來我還是要請院長跟部長能夠持續支持高雄的捷運路網台北發展的很快計畫型補助款也都補助下去了結果現在因為財務法的關係現在財源受到影響高雄在明年減少了103億的本來可能可以補助的現在少掉了所以現在我們很多的捷運的路線的經費會受到影響騎乘也可能受到影響"},{"start":6326.033,"end":6346.02,"text":"甚至於未來要新建的此縣也會受到影響不只高雄 台南 台中都一樣所以能不能請院長跟部長盡力的來支持中南部的軌道運輸 捷運輸不要受到影響台北已經新建完成了不受太大的影響而高雄 台南 台中受到很大的影響能不能請部長 院長來支持"},{"start":6347.81,"end":6370.987,"text":"台北包括新北 早期建了很多的捷運都用中央跟地方的合作 中央補助很多錢那現在不只高雄 中南部 包括桃園要開始興建更多的捷運但現在的財化法 新版的確實把中央的錢拿去平均都分給地方去了那中央已經沒有錢再幫助這些現在要興建新辦捷運的這些城市了"},{"start":6371.597,"end":6390.831,"text":"這形成一種不公平的競爭這非常的不公平對啊所以我常常說先做的已經早享受了現在做的所以東德所以台北還分到最多的錢台北的捷運還都做好了所以等於是附上加附所以我們希望委員大院能夠支持院版的裁判法我們希望這要重視區域間的侵犯法我們保留計畫性補助"},{"start":6391.932,"end":6412.61,"text":"但是我們計劃型補助一般型補助加個統籌分配稅款對各縣市來講都會比今年還高還是要請院長跟部長繼續支持高雄的捷運的入網的興建好不好是是好再來我要請教一下國道7號謝謝院長跟部長支持那現在因為他到了仁武之後在往北的部分一樣面臨到了"},{"start":6413.25,"end":6429.065,"text":"一樣交通上的瓶頸那因為國一常常現在塞得很嚴重所以國七找到可能的路線往北繼續延伸不管是高速公路或者是快速道路都是好的方案能夠紓解台北台南高雄台南之間的交通的嚴重的擁捨狀況這個是可以請也啟動相關的規劃好嗎院長"},{"start":6435.772,"end":6462.473,"text":"這個部分委員照您的指示我們會來啟動規劃那這個部分我們也可能要跟地方政府來一起做溝通我知道你們有規劃一個叫高科技的一個線路的就因為台南高雄有高科技的一些發展我希望這個盡快來啟動國一高架難度比較高但是至少國七往北延伸這一塊做得到的話讓更多的南北向台六十一國一然後國七國三能夠讓南北向更加的便利"},{"start":6465.967,"end":6483.218,"text":"好 謝謝賴瑞隆委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 交通部長備詢 謝謝接下來委員質詢完畢之後我們將會休息十分鐘休息完畢之後請邱志偉委員做好準備我們現在下面請廖先祥委員請質詢"},{"start":6494.52,"end":6500.341,"text":"好 謝謝韓院長一樣麻煩邀請我們卓院長還有我們的陳世凱部長麻煩再請卓院長 交通部長備詢"},{"start":6509.437,"end":6535.689,"text":"廖文豪 院長好 部長好一開始還是先跟院長跟部長討論一下大眾運輸的一個問題 捷運的問題我們汐止 我的選區在新北的汐止汐止的捷運包括現在建設中跟規劃中原本大概分成兩個部分一個就是過去大家說的汐止民生線從汐止區公所到台北市的大稻埕過去是一條線另外一條線就是基隆捷運但是在汐止民生線"},{"start":6536.669,"end":6554.706,"text":"在過去可能因為經過一段討論我們把它拆成兩個部分就是汐止區公所到東湖捷運站這邊拆開來這邊已經先做了已經在工程在施作當中了另外的東湖站到大稻埕這個部分目前正在送綜合規劃報告審議當中"},{"start":6556.668,"end":6585.401,"text":"包括基隆捷運現在在基本設計當中綜合國家已經通過了現在在基本審議我現在討論一下過去大家說的不論是叫汐止民生線還是民生汐止線代表的意義應該都是一樣的就是東湖到大稻埕的這一段因為現在汐止區公所您可以看到大概就是SB15到SB10它其實是一個只有六站的捷運系統它只能接到文湖線的東湖站包括它的轉程的距離大概"},{"start":6586.301,"end":6602.488,"text":"達到了200公尺那當然轉成沒有那麼的便利那當然原本的規劃就是貫穿台北市那包括了淡水新一線的一個轉成環狀線的轉成新盧線的轉成然後在中山國中也有文湖線的轉成那整條線的效益才能夠把它彰顯出來"},{"start":6603.869,"end":6626.185,"text":"目前只通到東湖應該可以很明確的感受出來它的效益可能就沒有辦法的把它極致的來把它發揮我就想我們院長這邊是不是我知道這條線的延伸可能還牽扯到基隆捷運機場的一些問題有一些部分還需要跨線子的整合是不是能夠請院長如果說您認為一條線只到東湖站這邊的效益"},{"start":6626.605,"end":6638.633,"text":"他的投資效益確實是沒有辦法達到我們當初的一個期待必須要整條來貫穿的話那是不是能夠請我們的行政院折騰我們交通部或者折騰交通部的下轄單位來讓我們的地方政府盡快整合意見讓這條線能夠盡快的通過"},{"start":6641.155,"end":6666.689,"text":"跟委員報告這個必須要地方政府來提出來因為捷運的建制是地方主辦那他們如果提出這樣子的需求我們交通部是已經提了嘛那現在在審了嘛那當初其實很謝謝現在的外交部長林佳龍當初在當交通部長的時候其實他就跳下來整合了三個縣市的捷運建設那目前他現在有卡的一點問題我沒有說責任在中央我沒有說責任在誰而是說大家是不是用一個"},{"start":6667.529,"end":6676.289,"text":"共同去推動的一個角度然後趕快把這條線需要調整的部分大家達成共識讓它盡速的推動這樣子的一個方向"},{"start":6676.954,"end":6698.798,"text":"好 我們交通部這邊來了解一下目前大家意見的差距在哪裡那大家一起來整合意見好 那再拜託部長那也拜託我們院長則從我們的幕僚單位繼續的來把這件案子來當作考核來繼續來追蹤那另外一個還有一個是基隆捷運基隆捷運在去年的時候已經合訂了在蔡英文政府這個執政最後一天合訂了那"},{"start":6700.339,"end":6726.44,"text":"後續目前正在進行基本設計這部分也在審議當中我謝謝部長也有給一些承諾這條線的一個問題在於經費的分攤我知道全台灣的捷運系統我們要跟部長吵架所以我們就不要吵財化法的問題全台灣的捷運的系統都因為你們說因為財化法去做了一些調整沒關係 其他的不談我們就談一下基隆捷運它的特殊性我們知道所有的交通運輸都有分"},{"start":6727.401,"end":6756.981,"text":"成績運輸跟地方運輸兩個部分沒錯以高速公路來講我們有分以道路系統來講我們有國道對不對中央主政有省道省政府主政現在費省了一樣中央主政縣的部分縣市的部分有縣道縣政府主政接下來有鄉鎮市道層層分級因為你跨的區域越多那就需要更上一層的單位來做整合包括資金費的一個指引基隆捷運它的特殊性在於它從基隆"},{"start":6757.561,"end":6776.062,"text":"到新北市以及到我們的台北市它跨了三個縣市所以它已經不是單純的過去大家認為的一個城市裡面的捷運路網它已經變成是一個城際的運輸了那其實城際的運輸過去都是依靠台鐵台鐵它其實是一個城市運輸的一個工具台鐵的運量不足了"},{"start":6776.522,"end":6796.273,"text":"所以說他在沒有辦法擴充包括當初在做第三軌的時候沒有辦法可能因為拆遷的問題沒有辦法整條到基隆都三軌所以說提出了一個替代的方式那就是基隆捷運的延伸所以他的存在是為了彌補城際運輸的一個不足而不能夠用台北市或者是"},{"start":6796.853,"end":6820.544,"text":"新北市區域性的捷運入網來看這件事情但是基隆捷運的經費跟其他全台灣所有的經費一樣都被刪減了許多的部分包括過去其實也是交通部在主責現在新北市政府接下來了是不是基隆捷運這部分的經費能夠用承繼運輸的方式去給最起碼你說台北市有錢 新北市有錢"},{"start":6821.184,"end":6848.7,"text":"多負擔一些沒關係我不跟你吵這一些那基隆市確實財政確實比較差一些是不是在基隆捷運這部分再給他一些支持讓他們在未來的規劃包括在基本設計在一些做變更設計的時候能夠多一些資源好 我就照委員的意思我們不講財化法可是委員講的就是中央地方市權的分配以及財政集赤的問題以及跨縣市的計劃型補助的問題還有就是地方規劃中央族域補助的"},{"start":6849.577,"end":6868.605,"text":"其實這個都跟財化法有關我意思是說假設今天不做基隆捷運過去是要做台鐵的第三軌或是台鐵的一個拓寬增加運量這錢是誰出的地方政府要提出他的規劃中央跟他討論之後台鐵做改善一定是交通不出的對不對"},{"start":6871.002,"end":6886.318,"text":"台鐵去做改善台鐵是交通部一定是交通部中央出的嘛連立體化地方政府都有出錢拓寬的部分因為一些工程的問題他沒有辦法拓寬他沒有辦法去增加運能所以用了另外一種方式去補強他的運能"},{"start":6886.878,"end":6916.658,"text":"結果這一筆錢你叫地方政府分攤也可以因為對地方有幫助但是不應該把全部的單子都壓在地方政府身上因為這條捷運它的存在是解決承繼運輸功能不足的一個問題所以我們應該要給他更多的一個支持所以跨縣式的這種計劃就需要用計劃型補助來跨縣提出那中央來跟大家談好之後做這個市權上的分擔還有這個金額金費上的分擔這個都要談好的"},{"start":6917.278,"end":6940.684,"text":"謝謝部長基隆捷運他跟一般的捷運有一些不一樣的地方他是負責曾經運輸的改善的問題跟區內城市內的一個大眾運輸接駁他有一個本質上的一點點的差異再拜託我們的行政院跟交通部未來在審議這條線包括未來可能會做變更設計的時候多多去看一下他們的差異來給一些不一樣的一些評估的補助的方式好不好拜託跟委員報告"},{"start":6944.042,"end":6965.589,"text":"如果目前是還沒有做調整就是說中央跟地方的分配比例目前還沒有做調整未來如果做調整的話我們會思考幾個點兩個很重要的重點一個是地方的財政急劇我們要看基隆的財政急劇第二個當然我們會針對捷運相對落後的地方給予多一些協助像基隆對基隆來講這應該是他的第一條捷運"},{"start":6966.869,"end":6991.895,"text":"那協助就會多一點像新北跟台北捷運已經非常多條了這個協助就會比較少大概以這個原則來看的話再加上他是負責承繼運輸解決我們台鐵的問題這點你納進去看一下好不好再麻煩謝謝我接下來請教一下部長你應該最近比較沒有機會開車過去你應該有開車跟委員報告我時常開車抱歉我要問院長抱歉我會問錯抱歉院長最近"},{"start":6992.762,"end":7005.279,"text":"過去應該有自己開車的經驗啦你開車有沒有一種經驗就是說開車開一開順順突然眼角餘光瞄到好像一台測速照相機然後我們突然急骰剎車你有沒有過這樣子的一個經驗"},{"start":7007.642,"end":7036.724,"text":"通常我們有那種語音會提醒吧對啦 語音啦一部分有語音嘛一部分有時候沒有語音的時候眼角餘光掃到測速照相機大家的第一個習慣常常會我不知道有沒有超速我就踩個煞車其實是相當危險的啦就會變成說現在是不是它之前都有一個警告牌提醒啦 有時候提醒速擋到還怎麼樣有測速照相就是讓你慢慢的能夠如果你有超速啦能夠慢慢把它速度減慢一下就變成說現在我們的用路人我不是跟你說對錯或是說"},{"start":7037.705,"end":7049.585,"text":"怎樣我是跟你說它是一個普遍的一個現狀那很多我們用路人在開車的時候我們都希望他看著馬路對不對看著前方或者是看一下有沒有可能行人會突然穿越還怎麼樣的情形這樣是第四顧慮反而"},{"start":7051.431,"end":7068.546,"text":"但是因為車速照相機的存在很多人不是把他的精神放在馬路上而是把精神看在有沒有車速照相機我們把我們的應該注意的地方放到了其他地方當然我不是說超速這件事情是對的但是它確實造成一些嚇死行為它分心的問題"},{"start":7069.787,"end":7095.175,"text":"因此這幾天也有一些藝人提出一些看法他說台灣的測速照相機監獄比密度還高他說這是國恥我沒有要教院長評斷他講的話但是為什麼他的這個評論會形成一個民眾輿論的共鳴只是單純的因為民眾被罰錢心裡不開心嗎還是有一些其他的原因我們可以去探討"},{"start":7097.137,"end":7122.203,"text":"現在很多一些路邊的停車紅線違規只要有民眾上網討拍其實原則民眾都是支持執法的因為它就確實違規了但是為什麼單就車速照相機這件事情民眾他是有共鳴的是不是因為我們的車速照相機它的背後我們被車速照相機的存在有一些討論的地方我們可以看一下其他地方大概是怎麼做的我們加拿大最近大家有在分享加拿大一些案例"},{"start":7123.476,"end":7144.199,"text":"他認為說他們直接飛到測速障礙器他們認為是電台的工具他說啦 也不是我說的他說我們經過測速障礙器的時候就煞車經過測速障礙器之後就加速其實他沒有他就只是在那邊減速而已然後反而造成速率上面的一個不平均他其實並沒有辦法達到一個真正解決安全的一個問題啦"},{"start":7145.24,"end":7156.232,"text":"當然他不是只有材料測速照相機他還從工程面去解決用工程面去讓駕駛主動去降低速度這個就是一個全面性的一個通盤的檢討我們過去常常說10次車速10次車禍9次快"},{"start":7163.615,"end":7187.71,"text":"映入大家的心裡了啦所以說常常我們就是用測速照相機裁測要看是不是能夠減少事故但是從過去的一些統計的資料我們如果直接掃描來看其實你看不太到測速照相在哪裡他大概只佔了超速的部分只佔了2點多%這109年的資料那下一張包括去年的去年的我們十大的噪音"},{"start":7188.533,"end":7214.803,"text":"其實也沒有測速照相機在裡面超速這件事情在過去我們的政府的認知裡面是不是有一些可能需要調整的一些地方那為什麼大家會對於超速這麼的反感大概兩個原因啦我看你們認不認同第一個就是限速定定的不合理第二個就是在不需要設置的地方他也去設置原則上大概就是這兩個問題部長應該有大概去了解一下吧"},{"start":7215.299,"end":7231.375,"text":"好 跟委員報告您在說的這個車速照相確實最近很多人在討論不過我也有看到一些人是覺得不要超速比較好啦那這個速度的管理其實有他的道理在跟委員報告就是說車子性能越來越好"},{"start":7232.276,"end":7247.838,"text":"越改越好不過人被車子撞到的那個耐受度永遠不會改變人不會變成鋼鐵人部長我時間有限先讓我講一下好 不好意思其實我們國家的限數大概全世界分成兩種限數部長應該知道我分享給院長"},{"start":7248.539,"end":7272.148,"text":"一種就是用道路設計的線數然後再去往下調看你要調多少我們當初的工程大概規範它是多少它就多少就往下另外一種有些國外的它是用85分數的自然流速它是用85分位去當作一個線數的標準而不是用當初設計的一個速率台灣目前的現況是什麼因為我們台灣都是我們是用設計速率去規定線數"},{"start":7274.302,"end":7300.523,"text":"這個速率它是用大區段它是用大區段去設定的譬如說我前面有個彎道或者是說我有斜坡我整段的速率都會因為這個彎道這個斜坡它的速率是低的但是其實除了扣掉這個彎道跟斜坡我其他的部分其實它本來是一個康莊大道也就是說我們在自然我們人體在看一條道路跟我們駕駛的一個體驗我們會有一個很自然舒適的一個行駛的一個速率但是很容易因為"},{"start":7301.755,"end":7313.276,"text":"因為整條線數的一個這個區段大區段線數的一個原因導致康莊大道的一個線數他也被拉低了那就變成說我補充一下可以嗎"},{"start":7314.398,"end":7338.995,"text":"跟委員報告您剛剛在講的測速照相測速照相都是地方政府車的交通部其實我知道啦我沒有怪你啦我剛剛有怪你嗎第二個新北市是可能是全國最多的第三個新北市的罰款也是全國最多一年三十幾我現在沒跟你討論新北市這件事情啦測速照相有國道省道都有啦各縣之社我今天只是討論一個超速的一個問題那好啦"},{"start":7339.975,"end":7364.387,"text":"因為我們常常就是會遇到一個狀況就是它是非常筆直的道路它非常的寬那你又給它一個不合理的限速然後在一個非常筆直的地方大家不認為危險的地方去設出照相機這就是大家詬病的地方如果我們是在彎道前設置我相信彎道前設置我相信他們就不會有那麼多的疑義所以我剛剛講了兩點第一個是"},{"start":7365.762,"end":7389.202,"text":"這個不合理的一個測速我們在非常寬的地方非常筆直的道路定定不合理的過低的線速第二個我們在直線段本來就可能看起來要沒有危險的地方去測速照相機那導致了民眾有許多的怨言中央地方都有測速照相機那我現在就只有一個訴求看你們能不能答應我們的這個噪音車有設置的原則噪音車有設置的原則"},{"start":7390.767,"end":7412.792,"text":"只能在特定的地方能夠做科技執法我們的測速照相機能不能也設置一個設置原則讓地方政府跟中央政府中央政府都能夠去徵詢而不是說他想設在哪邊想去哪邊講難聽點 練才就設在哪邊這一點可不可以去做這個可能要跟地方知識事項來討論一下中央要不要管到說你測速照相可不可以設在該設置的"},{"start":7422.194,"end":7434.851,"text":"就是一個原則讓地方政府不要想設在哪就設在哪而是在危險的地方在危險的地方設置照相機就是這個訴求而已"},{"start":7446.294,"end":7455.372,"text":"好 谢谢廖宪祥委员咨询也谢谢卓院长交通部长贝勋谢谢我们接下来休息之后请邱志伟委员准备咨询现在休息十分钟"},{"start":8110.328,"end":8115.433,"text":"歡迎我們繼續開會接下來請邱志偉委員質詢林益君委員請準備"},{"start":8138.888,"end":8163.995,"text":"好 謝謝主席是不是有請行政院卓院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢另外也請交通部陳部長麻煩請交通部長備詢卓院好院長好 部長好院長我是立法院台日韓經貿合作跟安全合作促進會的會長是"},{"start":8164.448,"end":8190.623,"text":"我常常關注台韓台日跟台日韓這個三邊關係以及東北亞區域的經貿合作跟安全合作所以今天是交通主題我先針對觀光的部分請教一下這個院長跟部長台灣到日本觀光大概每年六百萬那日本到台灣觀光大概一百五十萬是四分之一日本人口是台灣的五倍"},{"start":8192.008,"end":8214.487,"text":"台灣到韓國觀光是150萬日本到南韓觀光韓國到台灣觀光是100萬但是韓國人口是台灣的兩倍所以我們應該提出東北亞特別是日韓觀光客倍增計畫部長你知道除了韓國除了首爾跟福城之外還有哪些城市你比較熟悉"},{"start":8216.298,"end":8241.111,"text":"韓國我比較不熟悉我只有首爾有去過其他的地方我沒去過這個很重要我們是命運共同體生活共同圈你飛機到首爾大概是兩個小時跟我從高雄到台北搭高鐵是一樣的還有大邱、光州、青州青州剛好也是在這次APEC主辦的區域主辦的城市所以應該提出日韓觀光會倍增計畫"},{"start":8243.223,"end":8266.076,"text":"第一個日本人了解台灣的大概極確於這個大都市日本大阪、福岡、北海道很多縣市鳥取、那些島根很多縣市的日本民眾並不瞭解台灣更何況他們瞭解台灣瞭解台北台南他也不知道高雄也不知道"},{"start":8267.256,"end":8296.503,"text":"所以一定要提出一個縝密的計畫這計畫包括第一個航線要密集我們對日本航線大概很多縣市的主要機場我們都有飛這是供給帶動需求你有飛啊紅眼航班 縱使紅眼航班班班客滿我們年輕朋友都去那韓國除了飛首爾跟釜山之外還有濟州啊我們也飛青州也飛大邱"},{"start":8298.679,"end":8326.748,"text":"以前的光州 世界的光州所以要讓這些二線二三線城市能夠瞭解台灣認識台灣他們才有興趣到台灣來觀光所以從這個數據來看我們有很大的成長空間所以航線密集之外特別台灣飛韓國的航線二三線城市可能你要鼓勵國際航空要多飛不怕沒有需求就怕沒有供給另外宣傳要多一化"},{"start":8328.45,"end":8355.252,"text":"宣傳的多元化就是你要宣傳內容你要讓他們感到有興趣台灣是一個有趣的國家是一個友善的國家是一個好玩的國家是一個安全的國家而宣傳內容不只有台北也要包括台南 台中當然也要包括高雄所以宣傳你在當地的主流媒體YouTube什麼都要去讓他們能夠從中了解"},{"start":8356.581,"end":8384.094,"text":"第三個 設施的友善日本大城市 小城市他們所有的官方標語跟交通的指標全部是四語共識英文 日文 中文跟韓文就像我們入境韓國他們機長在入境的大門這個航班從哪邊來就從台灣來 還有中華民國國旗代表友善"},{"start":8386.044,"end":8409.98,"text":"所以我是鼓勵啊 陳副長你可以帶隊去日本 韓國來行銷台灣觀光以你的專業 以你的年輕 以你的高顏值絕對會引起這個當地民眾的認可哇 台灣的伯爵都很厲害所以我是覺得您可以"},{"start":8411.536,"end":8432.289,"text":"現在應該沒有什麼旅行限制可以的話 你看每個月都去都沒關係今天去韓國 哪一天去日本去二三屆城市 讓他們知道台灣有很美麗的風景 很友善的環境跟很帥氣的部長這部分我提出這個建議給交通部做參考"},{"start":8433.982,"end":8455.134,"text":"這個是很有價值因為台日韓確實是友好跟委員報告台灣的觀光客國外來的旅客第一名是日本韓國是第三名所以如果能夠倍增的話對於台灣的整體的國際觀光客來講是會增加非常多您剛剛在講的尤其是我們的交通的據點"},{"start":8456.014,"end":8483.194,"text":"要對他們友善這個我們目前也正在研究可不可以再增加除了英語之外可不可以再增加日語或者是韓語在一些比較日本觀光客跟韓國觀光客會來的地方來增加這個部分我們也在討論你去日本這個二三線城市啊他們的這個巴士他們的這個地鐵或者是他們這個電車都是全部都是韓文中文中文還分簡理式跟繁體式所以代表一個友善的環境友善的設施"},{"start":8484.454,"end":8507.683,"text":"當然我也討論到台日韓的經貿合作我今天看到一個韓國的產業商業部長韓國的產業商業部長他同時也是韓國首席對外談判代表他竟然提出希望跟台灣在談判過程中或者是半導體的合作"},{"start":8508.925,"end":8537.86,"text":"第一次聽到韓國的貿易談判代表提出這個論調而且主動提出要跟台灣合作我不曉得這個院長我們有沒有收到韓方相關的訊息合作的訊息或者如果有收到我們對他們的這種訴求我們的基本態度基本的立場為何到目前為止我們談判的整個談判團隊是跟針對跟美國一做一對一的談判至其他"},{"start":8538.482,"end":8565.659,"text":"您說的 倒沒有這樣的訊息不過我也注意到今天有這樣的一個消息台灣跟韓國之間這從是一個比較良性的競爭比較多台灣跟日本之間是比較有相關性的互補性比較多所以我們跟韓國一直在高科技以及晶片的製造先進製程方面有一些競爭那台灣現在是領先蠻多的所以台灣是有能力不只韓國台灣是有能力在成為一個全世界的先進的"},{"start":8566.127,"end":8586.492,"text":"晶圓製造的一個聯盟的倡議我們曾經有這樣想過但是現在我們並沒有這樣說因為自從關稅談判之後變成是一對一的談判在進行台灣現在最主要是跟留在台灣做全世界的佈局那希望跟我們台灣內部的產業供應鏈跟世界可以合作的互補的這個產業國家多多的合作"},{"start":8587.625,"end":8614.858,"text":"因為今天是交通主題我接著繼續請教交通的議題就台灣的航站主要航站出入境最多的還是這個桃園機場桃園機場我一直期待說能夠最起碼有一個我們是AI大國半導體大國機場設備設施應該是應該是這個先進國家的行列但是我覺得跟雨田比較起來跟韓國的這個仁川這張宇我們是落後很多"},{"start":8615.734,"end":8633.968,"text":"我們手撿 安撿旅客出境的行李行李轉盤都要用人工搬運很難想像我們AI大國 半導體大國這種設施還是停留在古老很久以前的時代"},{"start":8634.935,"end":8660.368,"text":"所以未來是不是智慧化的這個航站的動線怎麼樣讓這個桃園的機場或者松山機場、小港機場能夠包括這個行李拖運能夠有動線好的規劃智慧化通關等等流量預測行李這種拖運這些都是一個智慧型的航站必須要有條件但是你"},{"start":8661.551,"end":8684.833,"text":"這個部長跟院長你們到這個桃園機場去看好像動線混亂好像這個各單位的事權統合並沒有做得很好所以我們航站出境第一個要安全要便利要迅速最重要是安心讓旅客安心所以你這設施是要由航站由交通部去統合包括設施的改善我剛剛講種種動線規劃 自動通關等等"},{"start":8688.832,"end":8691.415,"text":"這個有沒有相關的智慧機場總體的這個計畫改善計畫我想請教一下部長"},{"start":8695.999,"end":8721.587,"text":"我們最近去看過桃園三航廈新的即將在今年年底要啟用的它當然就是一個比較新的規劃跟設計因為整個桃園機場超過應該有40幾年以上的時間當初設計建造也許是先進但是也不容許在當中做大規模的改變所以我們一直慢慢的維修但現在新的三航廈我認為可以給國內一個比較全面而且嶄新的一個面貌"},{"start":8722.358,"end":8751.296,"text":"是 但是一航廈二航廈還是要慢慢改善特別我很難想像說這個出境的行李安檢還要人工搬運一般都自動化的所以這一點再請交通部持續提出改善計畫跟委員報告就是我們三航廈我們北郎廳會先開始等整個航廈完成之後我們就會針對舊的航廈就委員剛剛所指示的就是智慧化的部分在舊的航廈看怎麼樣去做更新"},{"start":8751.676,"end":8776.865,"text":"我們就會提出一個新的計劃把舊的航廈因為你要等新的航廈完成之後把旅客引到那邊去我舊的航廈才有餘裕的空間可以做這方面的改善另外我們入境的旅客現在還是有手檢手提行李的安檢除了日本之外日本是非豬瘟的疫區但是日本沒有相關的措施他沒有入境旅客的手提行李的安檢台灣為什麼"},{"start":8778.362,"end":8797.644,"text":"所以這個安檢要投入2億每年還有人力 還有這個位置所以那個是由房間署在執行但是對入境的旅客會造成不便日本可以不用這個入境旅客的這個手提行李安檢 為什麼因為他的處理系統做得很好"},{"start":8800.63,"end":8826.095,"text":"廚餘 家戶廚餘他們每一戶他們因為日本人對廚餘的處理他們相當具有他們的傳統他們有廚餘的乾燥機你廚餘之後你用乾燥機他們有些的縣市有補助你去購買乾燥機乾燥機之後你那個廚餘就去水化去水化之後你就變成一般的廢棄物就可以去燒"},{"start":8828.036,"end":8851.719,"text":"那你沒有儲水的話你在廚餘你放進焚化爐對焚化爐是一個很大的損害所以我是希望說以前某些縣市都有針對家戶廚餘機的補助後來能不能做一個全國統一的政策來推動家戶都有一個廚餘的乾燥機把這個廚餘乾燥機納入防疫的體系裡面"},{"start":8852.961,"end":8876.221,"text":"院長您的看法我們這兩天正在針對未來廚餘政策做全面性的檢討我們也希望能夠盡快的來決定否則對養豬業者還有這些清運廚餘的業者還有產生廚餘的事業單位都是很大的困擾我們會做最快的決定所以這個就是未來如果廚餘的去化能夠有所解決的話"},{"start":8878.007,"end":8900.716,"text":"去化 終端去化的問題來引申出他如何來處理瀝乾以後去焚化是一條途徑直接送去堆肥做飼料也是一條途徑送去做生殖能發電也是一條途徑我們在尋這個途徑來做各種的考量兩個最主要方向第一個要減量減量就是說用廚餘的乾燥劑加護先做好減量"},{"start":8901.596,"end":8925.683,"text":"另外這個它的安全化 廚餘的安全化我上禮拜跟日本相關的主管部門大概變門會議開了三個半小時什麼針對廚餘讓它變成安全飼料叫EcofeedEcofeed他們這個日本有非常好的經驗怎麼樣把這廚餘變成一個Ecofeed而且它比原來的飼料成本還更低"},{"start":8926.423,"end":8955.081,"text":"我建議院長可以跟農業部部長請他們去做更多研究跟日本人學習怎麼樣透過政府的這個整個體系的建立起來把這個廚餘變成一個安全的Ecofit安全的飼料我想這個日本的經驗值得我們學習我們這個在半個月之內因為配合整個廚餘禁用的期間我們必須在半個月之內要做有所決定所以最近正積極的在"},{"start":8956.25,"end":8973.19,"text":"決定討論這個處於未來的處理政策我們那天三個半小時的討論他們充分的做簡報我也充分的提出很多問題我想有機會的話再跟院長再討論好的 謝謝高雄機場我一直希望說"},{"start":8974.171,"end":8999.866,"text":"現在能夠增加除了區域航線之外能夠成為一個這個東南亞的一個空運的hub一個中心所以你要增加美歐跟紐澳的這個航線也很重要我希望可以試看看那當然我已經質詢好多次都沒有一個回應回應是空洞沒有具體的做法所以我希望是不是"},{"start":9001.452,"end":9021.509,"text":"雖然有宵禁的問題但是運量絕對沒有問題所得也沒有問題因為你們告訴我說歐美航線規劃要考慮到人口規模我們人口絕對沒有問題規模絕對沒有問題嘛另外居民所得跟經貿觀光未來半導體的這個製造中心就在南台灣啊就在高雄台南啊 對不對"},{"start":9022.563,"end":9032.88,"text":"所以這部分應該可以先試看看你用Chad飛也可以你用旺基來飛也可以我們現在只有一架A330在飛"},{"start":9035.1,"end":9059.06,"text":"大型的飛機多集中在這個松山跟桃園這個對南台灣不太公平所以說你是不是可以用供給帶動需求的概念最起碼部長你可以責任國際航空公司去做規劃最好你先試看看嘛你連試都沒試就說是不行 這個我覺得我們積極來跟國際航空公司來溝通這個問題我們也希望南部的航班可以更多然後可以飛的"},{"start":9065.916,"end":9086.437,"text":"好 謝謝邱志偉委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 交通部長備詢 謝謝報告委員會 我們在議場二樓旁聽我們優秀的彰化高中的同學們我們掌聲歡迎接下來我們請林益君委員質詢葛如君委員請準備"},{"start":9106.048,"end":9111.91,"text":"謝謝主席有請卓院長還有陳部長麻煩再請卓院長交通部長備詢林委好"},{"start":9122.048,"end":9142.059,"text":"主委院長好院長你看到我在這邊你應該知道我今天要諮詢的重點了我本席還是繼續就關心我們花年的交通還有觀光的發展的問題從零四零三強震還有凱米颱風加上這一次的馬太安溪的驗射湖還有太魯閣的驗值口的驗射湖的情況"},{"start":9142.799,"end":9168.326,"text":"都已經重創了花蓮的觀光這對花蓮的觀光產業來說是最慘的一年去年地震開始發生的時候花蓮的旅宿還有餐飲的停業已經上百家了現在也造成了交通的問題還有堰舍湖的淹水的問題這樣都會讓觀光客其實到花蓮觀光的意願都已經降低所以花蓮人現在其實最重要的是要知道要如何活下去"},{"start":9168.926,"end":9188.187,"text":"所以花東地區其實原本就是台灣的好山好水的觀光的地方也是國人還有甚至國外的觀光的人士去的最喜歡的旅遊的勝地那因為交通的不方便所以每次遇到了地震還有天災道路和鐵路整個都會中斷沒有一條安全快速推出"},{"start":9188.847,"end":9207.001,"text":"進出在花蓮的道路是東部人的最大的生活痛苦也沒有觀光東部人就是沒有了經濟的命脈所以我今天想要請問一下就是說那現在對花蓮人其實最主要的民生經濟發展來說最重要就是怎麼樣讓這個觀光業能夠活下去"},{"start":9207.701,"end":9229.603,"text":"所以我還是要拜託院長和部長說是否可以對花蓮的觀光產業多一點減免還是多一點補助譬如是說補貼水電還是薪資還是多辦一點活動或會議在花蓮召開這樣看看有沒有一些然後可以有一些實質的幫助來協助這些業者走過這段低潮"},{"start":9230.672,"end":9245.664,"text":"是委員所說的剛剛幾項的內容我們從0403地震之後在花蓮都陸陸續續都有相關的一些補助我們也鼓勵比方說我們的部會也能夠多多的到花蓮去召開各種的會議也希望各種"},{"start":9246.485,"end":9273.273,"text":"民間的團體也能到花蓮去召開會議但重要的是整個交通要能夠順暢起來但無奈我們實在是最近以來風災太多 驗射虎又太多所以現在很多的交通都還受阻光光是那一條馬太安溪橋修了變道又壞那最近28號會又修好我們還要再去看是不是真的修好修好之後還沒有一些危險一些疑慮所以針對花蓮的這個"},{"start":9274.773,"end":9297.008,"text":"地方的建設公共的設施我們投入很多投入這麼多無非就是希望能夠讓花蓮的觀光能夠盡快的振興起來因為這是花蓮最重要的資源那現在在泰魯閣的部分除了開放幾個大清水遊戲區等等幾個小部分之外局部性開放之外還是有很多比方這個長春池等等他還是沒有辦法"},{"start":9297.981,"end":9313.409,"text":"那也做了一些路段在時段上面的管制也不是全天性的開放所以說造成很多觀光客沒有辦法很便利那我們會想這個交通部公路局相關的單位會緊速的把花蓮地區的道路"},{"start":9313.829,"end":9337.981,"text":"工程能夠盡速的完成 讓他能夠在安全無虞之下我們才能進一步來提供更好的觀光資源好 院長說得對 其實太魯閣是很多國外觀光客會來的地方現在太魯閣那邊 這樣就是整個觀光點的整個關閉的話 其實是影響到觀光花蓮的觀光是一個很大的問題所以剛才有談到長春池這個問題我想要長春池是整個太魯閣要"},{"start":9339.978,"end":9358.525,"text":"最近的最近那個太魯閣管理處那個地方所以我想問一下就是現在的長春池這個步道還有這整個基本的設計的作業是不是已經完成了呢因為我看長春池那邊的復建工程其實省議已經通過了而且九月份交通部也"},{"start":9359.285,"end":9380.632,"text":"協請國土署已經代辦了那請問這個什麼時候可以順利開放了因為我覺得它是最接近太廣處的其實那個地方是比較好修復的所以我想請陳部長部長說明一下我有跟委員報我一直希望我能夠境外到長春池即使能夠看到它它沒有修復看到它因為我一直要求我要把長春池"},{"start":9381.973,"end":9410.411,"text":"還給太魯閣 把太魯閣還給全世界所以我們一定要這個做到那長春池的部分希望能夠儘速的把它修復的工程能夠完成 請部長說明是 各位委員報告因為這個是太管處的業務那目前我們交通部這邊也有協助啦在這個修復的部分那另外就是說針對道路修復的部分邊坡其實還不太穩定還是會有落石所以我們一天這個道路只有開放五個時段只有五個時段 在夜間也不開放"},{"start":9411.225,"end":9430.213,"text":"這個部分我們會盡快來努力不過大自然的力量其實相當的大我們一直在修復的過程當中前一陣子您也看到燕子口又有一個燕色湖所以又阻塞了幾天我們持續在努力當中我們希望在116年的時候整個道路都可以讓它更穩定一點這個部分我們正在做努力"},{"start":9430.694,"end":9454.913,"text":"好 謝謝因為我想長出此是在整個太魯閣現在修復中是覺得是應該是比較容易的事情而且它又是接近太廣出其實是一個很好的景點所以我也希望陳部長可以在這方面因為我看現在情況應該是都差不多了就是在道路上面道路又是交通不管的所以我是想說這個可以加快腳步希望那個部長可以和院長可以重視這塊好的"},{"start":9461.104,"end":9487.698,"text":"接下來我要請教一下就是說花蓮人最關心的公路上面的問題怎麼樣給花蓮一個安全和回家的路就是花蓮人都是盡快興建的蘇花安公路蘇花安現在的話和國五的銜接蘇花改目前現在整個進度到底是怎樣工程是不是有執行上面的困難因為我看114年已經快要結束了有沒有把握在115年的時候發包動工"},{"start":9489.099,"end":9499.631,"text":"而且塑化案在和平和中段這邊當初是規劃119年就能完工那有沒有信心在121年全部都整個順利完工呢"},{"start":9501.324,"end":9522.888,"text":"跟委員報告蘇花改在銜接國道5號的部分我們目前正在設計當中像委員所說的希望明年能夠看有沒有機會可以動工這個部分我們全力來努力全力來努力看可不可以明年可以讓它動工其實這幾年的交通一步一步在改善不過遇到403的地震當然就是造成大家比較"},{"start":9523.728,"end":9543.22,"text":"大的傷害道路上面比較大的傷害我們也逐步在讓道路變得更穩定尤其是邊坡的部分我們的蘇花公路除了蘇花改之外的其他路段尤其是河仁跟崇德這一段比較不穩定我們現在也透過各種工程的方式在做改善"},{"start":9544.671,"end":9565.12,"text":"因為我想我從上任到現在為了替花蓮人爭取一條安全回家的路其實我在院會質詢這個已經第四次了可是我看了相關工程其實進度到現在還是停滯不前其實花蓮人真的是等了一輩子應該沒有辦法再繼續等下輩子還要繼續等所以我請院長和部長可以對這方面重視好嗎"},{"start":9567.396,"end":9592.963,"text":"蘇阿安的部分我們已經正式核定他就會依照時程來做今年已經正式核定了台九蘇阿安的工程計畫那他這個工程因為經費也相當高要到達1056億所以說希望都可以在這個期程內完成因為之前的話整個的規劃其實已經都已經延後兩年了可是我想說這個新的整個的整個的進度我想說還是要要注意一下好不好好的 謝謝"},{"start":9594.563,"end":9620.99,"text":"接下來就是說還有一個就是比較容易簡單做的我們花蓮的交通上面的問題就是鐵路高架化就是花蓮市區的鐵路的高架化的交通的問題花蓮市吉安鄉甘城站的沿路總共有七個穿越鬧區的平面的交通整個平交道這個路其實長期都被認為是交通最大風險區然後應該花蓮要優先改善的危險路段"},{"start":9622.731,"end":9651.49,"text":"這個針對民眾來講其實民眾真的地方的民怨不斷大家都期盼著能夠讓鐵路的立體化這樣我想請教一下部長就是還有院長就是為什麼前兩任的交通部長林佳龍還有王國才都已經在國會上面已經親口答應了承諾要將花蓮到甘城的高架化這個納入鐵路雙軌化的計畫並由中央全額的負擔整個經費但結果為什麼計畫書送到行政院之後就黃牛跳票了"},{"start":9651.77,"end":9678.827,"text":"被退回來還說要改成別的依據所以要求地方政府也要負擔整個的配合款然後也就是中央已經不願意負擔全部的這個整個的全額負擔費用了那為什麼交通部早就已經答應說鐵路高教化合併到花東鐵路雙軌化的計畫工程這是一個非常簡單的地方的建設計畫但是它是一再的在跳票然後現在甚至還要花蓮縣政府"},{"start":9679.167,"end":9707.384,"text":"要重新來評估並付單部分的配合款那是不是又讓整個計畫都回到原點了呢那這樣中央和地方政府都是這樣來來回回的過程中其實陳部長你也公開的回應說這個承諾到花蓮到甘城這一個整個鐵路高架化的工程你也承諾說不會讓這個工程延宕為什麼一個鐵路高架化在西部的縣市其實早就是一個非常基本的交通的建設"},{"start":9708.184,"end":9727.99,"text":"而且在花蓮居然就會那麼的困難重重呢所以還有說花蓮當然不希望被政府漠視啦所以花蓮人到現在當然不但等不到一條順利回家的路而且還是最主要是簡單的市區的鐵路高架化都期盼不到在六月考察那一天"},{"start":9728.55,"end":9754.438,"text":"交通的委員會的召委林國成也決議兩個月由交通部鐵道局跟花蓮縣政府溝通然後經了解花蓮縣政府也在9月10號提交了吉安高價化的可行性研究然後目前鐵道局審查中那請問部長就現在已經11月了然後現在審查的結果是如何呢還有鐵道局和交通部有沒有規劃那整個期程"},{"start":9755.455,"end":9773.492,"text":"跟委員報告這一段就像委員剛剛所提到的西部有看到一些鐵路都已經立體化了立體化的原則其實全國都一樣也就是說中央負擔部分的經費地方也會負擔部分的經費在西部走廊幾乎都是同樣的狀況"},{"start":9774.913,"end":9792.313,"text":"那最近的這個宜蘭也有這個高加化的議題那也是地方也必須要有所負擔所以花蓮跟全國的其他各個地方都用一模一樣的機制在走那很感謝花蓮縣政府在九月也已經送他的這個可行性研究的這個報告已經進來了"},{"start":9793.554,"end":9809.375,"text":"我們目前鐵道局正在審議當中我們會加快審議的腳步我們希望跟花蓮縣政府大家一起來合作趕快把大家所期盼的花蓮到吉安的這一段的立體化工程可以趕快讓它來進行這個部分我們會來努力因為"},{"start":9812.096,"end":9836.102,"text":"因為部長你也知道這個鐵路高焦化的工程其實今天這次今年你有去嘛有去地方考察你有看到當時的情況當初的當時的那個民眾也是都有反應那個地方其實真的是也死傷很多人所以畢竟這七個在花蓮市的平面的平交道其實都是針對花蓮民眾的生命上面的安全是很重要的"},{"start":9837.242,"end":9854.481,"text":"是 這個部分我們有聽到地方的聲音其實我到很多地方大家都會講同樣的話我們都希望能夠趕快把想要努力的工程的方向大家一起合作中央跟地方大家一起合作趕快把它完成就可以完成地方的鄉親的願望"},{"start":9856.329,"end":9869.046,"text":"接下來也是要請教一下花東快速道路的問題我想現在最近就是這幾年花年就是天災比較多所以交通就是一個非常大的問題我想不僅從台北"},{"start":9870.708,"end":9889.838,"text":"台北宜蘭到花蓮的公路不安全花蓮往蘭的道路也經常是因為天災發生交通不便今年九月的時候才因為華佳沙颱風不容易搶修的恢復的通車秀姑蘭溪高樓的便道還有府里的輪天便道都是被好雨整個摧毀了所以因此"},{"start":9890.478,"end":9916.229,"text":"花東快速道路的建設其實也是有迫切性的需要今本席我要追蹤花東快進度的與上會期本席總諮詢時一樣還是停留在可行性的評估然後自從109年10月就重啟評估到現在還有在交通部與公路局之間這樣聞來聞返的情況還有來來回回情況下時間這樣一下子就過了六年了而其"},{"start":9916.869,"end":9937.26,"text":"其實初次的評估是在103年那個時候評估的也就是這條評估的路已經總共實際上已經走了11年那我想問一下就是現在評估到底遇到了有什麼樣的困難呢而且真正評估那麼多年這次是不是可以克服呢那花東塊的話究竟是會不會審查成功呢"},{"start":9938.348,"end":9955.957,"text":"跟委員報告過去啦過去每一次評估沒有辦法過都是因為它的經濟效益不足經濟效益不足那是過去的原因那現在正在做可行性評估當中還沒有做結論出來我也不曉得說它的結論會是怎麼樣目前還不曉得那什麼時候可以出來呢"},{"start":9956.717,"end":9984.411,"text":"這個部分我要再問一下公路局不過也要跟委員補充報告其實在花東中間的這一段這個公路我們目前有這個安全景觀大道的這個拓寬的計畫您也應該都很清楚這個部分正在進行當中那也是一個百億的計畫正在進行當中我們希望說這一段趕快把它做好讓花蓮到台東的這一段的過程能夠更安全而且行車的效率可以更高這個部分我們正在努力"},{"start":9984.731,"end":10000.29,"text":"所以工程正在做這個部分是正在做比較長遠來看的話大家希望爭取的快速道路過去它經濟效益不足我們現在正在評估我也希望說公路局的評估的報告可以趕快出來我會再跟委員來做報告"},{"start":10002.549,"end":10022.553,"text":"接下來還有一個就是公路上面的問題花蓮南北向道路還有東西向的整個公路據我了解國道6號東延到花蓮從112年起到昨天已經召開第六次的整個會議了請問部長昨天的會議結果是怎麼樣呢這一條道路最早出現的時候該討論是75年開始辦理的中橫好 謝謝"},{"start":10039.787,"end":10058.996,"text":"好 謝謝林一軍委員質詢謝謝卓院長 交通部長備詢 謝謝報應會在議場二樓旁聽到來自花蓮總工會的所有的好朋友我們掌聲歡迎 遠道而來接下來登記第15號"},{"start":10060.922,"end":10079.595,"text":"郭國文委員第16號陳秀寶委員第17號陳冠廷委員三位委員質詢已書面提出我們請行政院書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報在接下來我們請葛如君委員質詢吳啟明委員請準備"},{"start":10096.756,"end":10099.599,"text":"謝謝主席有請行政院卓榮泰院長各位好"},{"start":10110.746,"end":10132.219,"text":"院長好我想強化國家網路認訊確保國家在天然災害資安攻擊或者緊急的情況之下我們持續還是有通訊網路可以使用安全可以快速回復的機制是行政院重要的施政目標也是我們阿宅網友鄉民非常重視的那唯有多管齊下去建立"},{"start":10132.659,"end":10149.627,"text":"海纜微波衛星的混合網路架構才能夠確保國家在單一系統受損的時候仍然可以維持整體通訊的基本運作不過目前台灣超過9成的國際網路流量依賴海底電纜傳輸"},{"start":10150.808,"end":10170.743,"text":"一旦有地震船隻誤損或者更嚴重的軍事行動蓄意破壞恐怕會導致台灣對外的網路全面中斷成為資訊孤島這一點連國際社會都對台灣感到非常的憂心根據彭博社的報導台灣離斷網只剩下14條海底電纜的距離"},{"start":10171.483,"end":10193.014,"text":"只有建立多元一直的通訊網路才能夠確保我們的通訊可以應變緊急災害的韌性我們請院長看一下這張圖這個是行政院網站上公布的強化國家通訊網路韌性方案其中包含的現行國家通訊網路架構其中衛星的部分竟然只有一顆"},{"start":10194.014,"end":10221.416,"text":"ST2的同步軌道衛星請教院長目前非同步衛星的發展已經很成熟了請問非同步衛星包含中軌、低軌為何沒有列入我國的通訊網路的架構當中呢我們有在積極發展低軌衛星甚至跟其他國家合作要發射衛星這個都是在計畫當中我們現在都完全沒有啊所以我們現在只靠這個啊現在有基本的服務你說的是正在進行是嗎對 基本的服務是有那現在都沒有嗎"},{"start":10222.264,"end":10250.62,"text":"所以我們要加快腳步只剩下一顆所以我要跟院長分享低軌衛星在戰爭的時候非常的重要如果發生戰爭其他通訊的設施可能會被摧毀低軌衛星就是重要的備援方案另外一方面平時也可以用於救災會維持偏遠地區的通訊譬如說我們可以看到日本由於山脈島嶼眾多高達四成地區沒有訊號台灣也是很多山 對吧"},{"start":10251.42,"end":10268.327,"text":"Sarlink以最新的衛星基礎讓5G 4G的手機可以直接連結做救災跟防災另外今天就在這個時刻烏克蘭也已經開通了直接讓手機可以連線衛星持續保有通訊"},{"start":10269.127,"end":10294.863,"text":"然而目前行政院所屬的各部會對於建構國家通訊韌性的立場實在是不一致NCC主管的電信管理法第36條仍然限制使用電信資源的公眾電信網路業者董事長要有中華民國國籍設置相關可能這個外國持有的股份不得超過49%間接直接不能超過60%即便我們數碼部部長也在這裡"},{"start":10296.183,"end":10321.44,"text":"說強化國家衛星通訊國家通訊任性為政治目標但是受限法規台灣其實距離多元通訊的網路還有很長的距離所以院長我們真的是想問我們能不能更加多元不是說以後而是現在就能夠有更多元的衛星通訊前幾天還有報告指出2022年俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭的時候"},{"start":10321.86,"end":10338.914,"text":"本來莫斯科要遮蔽這個衛星通訊的網路但是因為SpaceX的衛星這個Sarlink有超過5000顆現在已經到8000顆了透過一些程式的更新立刻讓他們的干擾失效現在還有中國在研究"},{"start":10339.454,"end":10359.599,"text":"要通過無人機來遮蓋那如果我們只有一顆這其實影響非常的大如果連結的衛星數量不夠多很可能一瞬間就會被電池屏障所以我們希望能夠來講的就是要確保國安就不能只靠那一顆衛星別人已經把答案都告訴我們了我們不能只依賴那個1"},{"start":10361.179,"end":10385.913,"text":"現在非常多的業者都已經提供800顆甚至8000顆但是我們的電信法民國47年制定以來到現在僵化70年的這個法案啊108年又公佈施行完全是跟不上現在的時代從那個時候到現在完全沒有改我們剛剛又提到烏克蘭今天才剛宣布手機可以直連starlink所以我想要院長啊我們料敵從寬欲敵從嚴啊"},{"start":10387.934,"end":10417.149,"text":"強化衛星通訊的韌性通訊整體多元的韌性就是強化國安也要維護我們民眾自由接取網路通信的這個服務能不能夠責成NCC以及速發部研議重新檢討電信管理法的相關規定讓台灣的天空能夠向全世界可以信賴的衛星服務開放好 我請林部長跟陳書偉就我們已經在進行的以及可以公開向委員說明的部分來做說明"},{"start":10417.829,"end":10446.059,"text":"跟委員報告兩點第一點電信管理法第36條外資的規定部分其實是相對不是問題目前中華電信其實高軌中軌低軌都有到位那明年也有另外一顆同步衛星高軌衛星會到位那另外委員提到的外資是不是造成一個國外的衛星體系落地台灣的困擾其實不會的我們這個規定是在電信法時期就定電信法時期"},{"start":10446.479,"end":10469.164,"text":"不好意思 我打斷您你們過去講到其他的一些公司要進來都用這個51% 都用這個台灣人你現在又說沒有關係法條就在那裡 我們能不能來研議修法能不能研議修法 不要拖我時間啊 不好意思啊根本報告 OneLab進來其實就是跟中華電信合作它一樣是符合正式六條的規定"},{"start":10470.044,"end":10487.314,"text":"市長我跟您報告啊NCC其實今年8月就有書面答覆交通委員會啊表示省酌產業發展可以調適監理法規啊現在就是最好的時機院長可不可以允諾一下我們已經有在做了來請部長說明跟委員報告一下齁您剛才只要只有一顆衛星應該指的是"},{"start":10487.874,"end":10510.575,"text":"那個高軌的那個同步衛星啊事實上我們現在有中軌也有低軌低軌的one web我們已經運行一年多了我們中軌衛星現在在譬如說在東沙什麼這個早就已經通信了這個我們都已經有了one web只有800顆方向而且它高度是1200公里很容易被遮蔽我們應該要開放讓更多的"},{"start":10511.135,"end":10526.763,"text":"多元的通訊能夠來保衛台灣我們是不是一起來研議修法這個完全同意委員說法謝謝謝謝院長對不起我跟院長說話不好意思部長麻煩您謝謝院長本席認為我們所面臨的挑戰真的非常嚴峻"},{"start":10527.783,"end":10555.635,"text":"請院長能不能承諾由行政院協調速發部跟NCC參採我們剛剛已經看到日本烏克蘭都已經通過了都已經手機可以直連了現在跟我講什麼1200公里了沒有沒有關係院長我們可不可以承諾評估在必要的時候以專案的方式許可我們信賴的可以信賴的外國的衛星而且是排名前幾的能夠更多元的向台灣來提供衛星服務可以嗎"},{"start":10556.774,"end":10577.388,"text":"剛剛部長已經說明過了我們的低軌衛星已經試行運行多一段時間了我們現在還沒辦法連線啊烏克蘭已經在運作我們照我們的騎乘在進行了我們這個電信法有沒有機會來修正演繹修正可以嗎這真的是我們的大家真的非常擔憂啊日本為烏克蘭已經可以了不要再跟我講以後"},{"start":10578.248,"end":10600.041,"text":"我們現在這個電信法真的卡在這裡院長可不可以承諾修法是與時俱進但修的要合理不要修的讓他不能用或是傳遞其他問題所以如果合理我們就一起來努力可以嗎跟委員報告關於電信管理法第36條外資比例之限制事實上是我國台灣加入WTO的時候的承諾所以適用於所有會員國"},{"start":10601.522,"end":10615.535,"text":"不好意思其實規定須具備一致性我打斷啦事實上你們去調查一下ST2的衛星啊新加坡佔比是62%啦也完全違反你們相關的規定啦所以相關的規定要趕快鬆綁可以嗎 院長"},{"start":10621.341,"end":10638.818,"text":"我必須打斷你喔謝謝接下來我們還要和院長提到交通科技啦近期特斯拉提出FSD的安全報告顯示啊這個技術已經成熟而且超過人類駕駛甚至更加的安全啊那現在呢已經在昨天韓國已經推出了"},{"start":10639.398,"end":10660.23,"text":"FSD亞洲第二個獲得相關的這個市場日本也預計在明年第一季第二季會推出接下來其實英國2025年要更新德國12月就要開放了請問院長我們現在事實上有根據交通部請交通部如果可以的話上來"},{"start":10661.03,"end":10676.851,"text":"交通部特斯拉大約於兩三個月前有來詢問FSD的申請程序請問院長第一台灣能不能循其他國家的模式至少在明年賣出自動駕駛法制化的程序第一步"},{"start":10677.352,"end":10703.542,"text":"否則我們現在還在做什麼呢每一個人在這些先進的國家一天可能節省一兩個小時這是效率的問題第二 能否比照其他國家的做法讓FSD逐步進行一般道路的測試院長可不可以承諾我們配合國家各種產業的進化以及世界上如果有先進的這種技術能夠讓我們共同研發我們當然法制化可以來跟得上腳步"},{"start":10704.422,"end":10722.876,"text":"好 謝謝真的是希望能夠讓搭載台灣生產的晶片由大量台灣工程師投入研發的自駕車結果現在台灣不能上路我們希望可以一起來努力跟院長一起努力那另外無獨有偶我們剛剛提到的FSD是自用車那近來中美科技巨頭百度 威某"},{"start":10724.016,"end":10747.327,"text":"2026年要在英國倫敦進行無人計程車的實驗北加州南加州也都已經開放結果我們向交通部詢問現在我們還在無人載具科技創新實驗的條例別人已經上路已經開通了我們還在實驗或實驗失敗AI內閣把無人載具的AI法令數字高格我想這不是民眾想看到"},{"start":10748.087,"end":10775.849,"text":"所有的專家都說2026年是自駕車以及自駕計程車最重大的一年我們有非常的法令準備好給院長來表現院長可不可以請您承諾我們能夠由行政院協調交通部經濟部以及其他部會建立跨部會的平台針對無人載具及自駕車的科技研議修法可行性讓台灣人可以擺脫交通科技三等公民的污名可不可以請院長承諾"},{"start":10776.67,"end":10803.329,"text":"是跟我們報告我們在明年中央政府總預算裡面有一個政策是AI新十大建設當中就有無人機器AI機器人跟無人載具所以這一塊的法規該修正的可能還是要修正因為各國都已經上路了好不好請院長能夠責成建立跨部會的平台我們一起來努力研議修法可行性這個既然有十大建設修法可行性應該要研議了對吧當然需要配合整個法制化的過程"},{"start":10804.313,"end":10820.192,"text":"謝謝我想這個再先進的科技也要以資安跟數位人權為基礎接下來要跟院長討論這個資安這個數位人權的議題那我想其實這個水桶理論短板的那個邊會漏水那事實上我們的民間企業很需要幫助"},{"start":10821.013,"end":10849.815,"text":"今年8月謝謝速發部我們立院三讀通過資通安全管理法的修正第四條增訂政府應協助民間處理因應及防大防範重大資安通訊的事件我們已經賦予資安的公司協力明確的法源依據這一點我要特別肯定也感謝速發部的林部長也非常用心的要推進然而受限於資源不足事實上目前政府投入公司力協力治理的這個經費"},{"start":10850.816,"end":10866.803,"text":"每年一億元而且是每年要持續他並沒有連續的168萬中小企業平均每家只能分到59塊連一個便當都買不起怎麼能進行資安防護我沒有要批評我是希望能不能"},{"start":10868.323,"end":10894.479,"text":"為這個大家來爭取請行政院研議針對推動我國中小企業資安聯邦給予跨年期的專案計畫讓我國能夠盡快補強資安最薄弱的一環這一點院長能不能來承諾這個沒有問題這個非常感恩不好意思我知道您認同院長可不可以承諾跨年期的專案資安想必部長也是非常認同院長您能不能承諾"},{"start":10895.751,"end":10922.211,"text":"如果是資安的問題當然我們非常的重視資安預算每家企業59元這段話我倒不怎麼了解我倒不怎麼了解這段話好不好我們剛剛講了1億元分給168萬中小企業每一家平均不到一個便當的錢不能這樣算法啦沒關係 我們的訴求是跨年度的專案這樣可以嗎 跨年度的專案"},{"start":10922.551,"end":10937.294,"text":"可以嗎 資安的預算如果不足我們會想辦法來加強但我們希望民間大家有自己的這個意識才能夠公私合作但是現在也是需要資源啦好不好 我們幫大家爭取一下認同嗎 好不好跨年度的專案可以嗎 院長"},{"start":10938.516,"end":10956.144,"text":"既然您不認同59塊的便當費可以嗎跨年期的專這不是我在申請好 謝謝那委員要先支持我們中央政府總預算我們都非常希望能夠有合理的編列明年的中央政府總預算要先審不好意思我先有限謝謝我們還是要來和院長談論最後一個議題"},{"start":10958.726,"end":10973.28,"text":"這個錯誤打仗打到侵害人權在8月15號本席在這個地方遞交了我們錯殺數位帳號自救會5000人的這個自救的這個自救書結果我們相關的部會回應我們說14個月來"},{"start":10975.502,"end":10997.845,"text":"只有不到百件的申訴案件那我們遞交給院長到底到哪裡去了呢金管會14個月來79件速發部14個月來說只有6件申訴了那到底那些申訴那些血淚到哪裡去了呢所以院長其實我們啊真的是希望啊能夠要求您部長不好意思我還沒有請您說話啊院長"},{"start":10998.345,"end":11013.395,"text":"本席希望能夠要求向立法院以及全民給個交代第一 單一申訴窗口第二 定期公佈停權社群帳號素樣申訴以及恢復的數量第三 檢討演算法第四 不要拿民眾來實驗可以嗎市長那是有說過我們都已經在做了因為民眾在那些問題我們都主動去解決了我們沒有等到他去申訴所以這個申訴的數量可能會比較少"},{"start":11031.98,"end":11048.948,"text":"好 謝謝葛如君委的質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長貝雄 謝謝抱怨後我們一場二樓旁聽的又來自台北市大安區明昭里發展協會的好朋友們我們掌聲歡迎"},{"start":11051.482,"end":11079.533,"text":"再接下來我們請吳啟明委員執行 邱毅英委員請準備好 主席 我們議會同仁請我們卓院長以及我們交通部部長麻煩再請卓院長 交通部部長備詢"},{"start":11088.908,"end":11115.358,"text":"吳委員好部長好 院長好院長首先恭喜我們我國出口已經都創新高 財政部最新公佈的10月份出口的金額已經達到618億美元 不僅是史上新高也突破了600億的美元大關 創下近15年來最大的漲幅我們累計1至10月出口"},{"start":11118.819,"end":11146.269,"text":"達到五千一百四十四億美元也提前刷新了歷史的紀錄那我們總統賴清德在演講中也講到台灣目前人均GDP已經達到三萬八千多美元已經超越了日本以及韓國的三萬六至三萬七那並有機會明年突破四萬美元大關"},{"start":11147.529,"end":11161.745,"text":"在這樣的出口龍井下顯示我國的產業競爭力及全球的需求同步的回升也讓我們市場對前景充滿了信心院長面對出口的景氣雙雙的提升的趨勢"},{"start":11162.746,"end":11179.073,"text":"你是否針對明年的明年度的稅收表現會持續的樂觀看待那我再一個問題那院長明年要是財政及還債都沒問題的前提之下是否優先考慮在普發現金請我們院長針對這兩點來做說明"},{"start":11183.404,"end":11211.969,"text":"好謝謝吳委員剛剛的說明這個10月份的出口真的是創了新高而且增加的比例達到49.7%非常的高那1到10月份這個5144億的美元也年增率達到31.8%這個都是國人尤其各行各業其中當然高科技產業占了相當多ICT產業占了相當大的比例那能夠這麼做這代表台灣在現在國際製造業高科技產業和製造業的重要性"},{"start":11212.449,"end":11221.709,"text":"所以我們會在這個地方上繼續的保持台灣在國際領先的地位至於明年的稅收其實我們現在是趨於比較保守的因為在整個國際間"},{"start":11223.154,"end":11251.782,"text":"以及美國的關稅貿易關稅對等關稅談判之後整個世界會呈現一個新的後關稅時代那很多的變化到現在變數還是相當大我國跟美方在最後的談判還沒有達到最終的總結會議那雖然其他國家大致完成但其中也充滿了若干的變數所以明年我們採取比較保守的估計但是一個國家即使我們的稅收應收的比預算的多"},{"start":11252.462,"end":11276.145,"text":"應收數超過預算數也不應該把它定額一定放在普發現金國家有國家更重大的需求比方我們的國家安全比方我們救災準備比方我們整個科技發展如果我們和平性的考量國家才有整體性向國外競爭的競爭力所以我們認為第一個保守估計明年的稅收再來審慎合理的如果"},{"start":11276.565,"end":11285.227,"text":"所以說真的有時增數超過預算數的時候要依照國家最需要的實際用途我們來做全盤性的規劃"},{"start":11287.084,"end":11307.621,"text":"對 因為大家都對明年的稅收還是保持的非常的樂觀那我說全國的民眾的期待我認為要是在我們的財政以及我們的還債能力之下我們行政院還是要來考慮一下是不是明年有剩餘的還是還政移民"},{"start":11309.122,"end":11337.253,"text":"所以這是本席的建議那再來因為我們過去在我們的陳建仁院長推動了TPAS這成效都應該是很好是大家都肯定包含我們賴清德總統在旅遊展也特別提到台灣是以觀光立國打造一個觀光的國家隊這個願景真的大家都是很興奮"},{"start":11338.713,"end":11359.08,"text":"我本席這邊的資料1到9月我國觀光的逆差高達805萬人次代表出國的旅客遠遠多於來台的旅客要扭轉這情況除了吸引國際的觀光客更應積極推動國旅的內需的成長"},{"start":11360.656,"end":11380.645,"text":"國力的發展不只是我們注視要提升交通性是關鍵根據統計今年9月底全台已經有超過1822萬人士購買交通業票近幾年來最受歡迎的之一就證明"},{"start":11381.365,"end":11399.125,"text":"整個制度設計得宜 價格合理民眾的意願都當然 他們都希望說搭乘我們公共的運輸工具那本席這邊慎重的一個建議台灣65歲以上的人口 已經佔了多少 448萬人"},{"start":11402.489,"end":11427.066,"text":"那政府應該推出由中央統籌我們各地方各地方政府發出的敬老卡由我們中央出面來整合民眾主要自負少許的費用像我們過去推動的TPAS一樣的月票不再受限於長輩每個月的點數那全國都可以使用"},{"start":11428.126,"end":11447.298,"text":"這個公共運輸那目前我本期所在的地方是新北市的敬老卡點數一個月就480點那又不能跨越使用讓許多的我們的長者持有卡的第一又不捨得用"},{"start":11448.138,"end":11470.073,"text":"又怕用不夠那反而讓我們政府的這個成效就大大打折那中央的預算都是中央跟地方的預算都是以年度年度來計算那所以我們應該是由中央出面原理我們的敬老卡以年度的額度"},{"start":11470.613,"end":11496.613,"text":"增加我們長者使用的彈性那院長我們家都有老人嘛那我也希望說未來我們推出屬於我們的銀髮族的銀帕子因為國裡要付出最大的潛力客群其實是我們長輩因為有的長輩他們要出國都不方便那要是你年度使用的話他們更有彈性那我看"},{"start":11497.313,"end":11520.847,"text":"就能帶動我們台灣的旅遊的復甦這一點應該是非常的重要所以我認為我們未來的TPAS因為前陣子的TPAS推動的很好那未來部長這應該要延續讓我們老人他們有尊嚴他不是老人一個人兩個人出去他整個"},{"start":11521.707,"end":11531.363,"text":"他的兒孫都會陪同啊這樣你才能帶動整個觀光市場這是一個真的非常重要所以本集會正式提案"},{"start":11532.939,"end":11560.51,"text":"這個因為TPAS非常受到國人的支持交通部也提出了TPAS 2.02.0更有多的優惠那麼敬老的部分各縣市有若干不同的規範那如果說TPAS 2.0的常客的優惠再加上各縣市也許他的折扣會更低總部長來說說明跟委員報告我們TPAS 2.0也可以結合敬老卡使用那如果結合敬老卡使用的話算起來大概3-5折因為我們法定本來就是50%就是5折"},{"start":11562.091,"end":11586.074,"text":"那如果再加上我們TPAS 2.0結合進老票的話大概就會三到五折的折扣啦所以是會非常非常的多的折扣那另外我們還有一個方案就是有一些老人家他不想開車了他想要繳回駕照的話如果繳回駕照我們的折扣會更多那兩年之內他使用TPAS這樣結合起來的話大概就等於是二五折的優惠"},{"start":11586.654,"end":11608.274,"text":"給所有的老人家我原本在建議的就是說整體性的針對銀髮族的這個部分可能還需要因為這個也跟地方政府會相關所以除了交通部之外我們也跟地方政府必須要來討論看看有沒有這樣的可能性我們來研議看看我跟院長跟部長報告當初我們TPAS一推動本來桃園 桃節桃節的捷運"},{"start":11611.499,"end":11637.239,"text":"都非常空蕩根本連公司的經營都有問題那T-Pass一推動你看桃姐就整個公司的營運都正常都有營業那未來我們全國很多捷運你可以讓他們除了有InPass一張卡全國走透透那不只他一個老人出門他的兒孫都會陪同這是我們未來最大的商機"},{"start":11639,"end":11661.492,"text":"這才像我們總統所講的台灣是一個觀光利果的所以我們一定要這樣趕快來做推動這我認為是一個非常可行又可以帶動台灣整個觀光整個景氣的回升這是對我們台灣的人民都是一個非常好的利多對我們老人也是一種尊重"},{"start":11662.216,"end":11678.958,"text":"我們來繼續加強整合把它整合起來對老人的折扣會更合理對 因為一定要跟地方政府我們全國都是統一這樣對我們老人他們要鼓勵他們走出來對我們整個產業都是有幫助好不好"},{"start":11679.497,"end":11707.672,"text":"好的謝謝委員再來我請問部長其實本席在上一次我也提到我們的六五在土城三峽不管是京城交流道包含山陰捷運萬大縣還有山陰縣還有我們很多的建設但是本席這邊還是慎重來要求我們六五的延伸"},{"start":11708.352,"end":11737.131,"text":"早期六五延伸在我們公共工程會五則城根本是開了六七次的會議也取得了我們的可行性評估現在已經進入我們初期我們的初期期出的報告也通過了那其中的報告我們已經拖了三次那問題出在哪裡我們總是要來解決因為土城這邊的工業區你看一年的聯產值"},{"start":11738.252,"end":11753.698,"text":"就超過一千多億那整個交通都已經飽和了又可以紓解我們國道三號的車流量那未來這是一個急迫性啊那一個急迫性未來為什麼會拖了三次請我們部長做說明"},{"start":11754.518,"end":11783.11,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分因為它整體的路廊牽涉到的面向其實比較廣這裡有台鐵的也有高鐵的還有地方徵收的還有就是因為我們是沿著大漢溪旁邊在走所以跟水利單位也會有相關的關係所以這個部分我們目前在審議的過程當中必須要邀集的單位其實相對是比較多一點這個部分我們會再加速委員在督促我們就會盡量再加速讓它速度更快一些"},{"start":11784.025,"end":11811.832,"text":"部長我跟你報告早期我跟公共工程會吳澤成開過七次會議包含新北市桃園還有我們的相關單位都來開會早期就提出這個問題那當時在吳志偉的推動之下都已經排除了很多的因素了那現在怎麼一個提出怎麼一言再言那問題還是要去解決啊"},{"start":11812.645,"end":11841.532,"text":"那是不是拜託部長這是一個積極一定要更為積極我們才可以來達成這個目標因為這才能徹底的解決因為三峽這邊的人口尤其北大尤其土層工業區這對我們的產業都是非常大的幫助這一點都拜託囉我們今年年底之前看可不可以完成其中的報告的審議好不好我希望有好的結果啦好不好"},{"start":11842.113,"end":11868.22,"text":"那再來呢就像我們上一次我所跟部長爭取的我們前三最後一筆的經費就是停車場那長湖橋現在已經都在做了也將近要完工了那問題就是那個長湖橋那個停車場他現在你未來要做好你還要再等兩三年那是不是可以再找個"},{"start":11869.54,"end":11893.808,"text":"適當的地方來做臨時停車場都可以因為我們三峽這個老街已經在上一屆林部長都到那三峽去宣布我們經典城市經典的小鎮那未來這個觀光客要吸引當然就是停車的問題這一點我要拜託我們交通部找一個適當的地點來做為停車臨時的停車"},{"start":11896.175,"end":11922.876,"text":"委員所建議的那個幾個地點其中限制到財政部國產署他的非公用土地還要請財政部國產署再來好好的來規劃看看有沒有如果非公用土地短期間沒有什麼重大的公共用途的話那是不是他可以提供出來再請財政部來檢討院長來督促會比較快這樣才能解決地方上的問題"},{"start":11924.13,"end":11951.567,"text":"那本期還有一個比較重要因為時間上的問題就是我上一次所講的就是機械機械設備我們的重機械你看這次花蓮的映射5R也是要靠他們那個機械公衛他們所帶動整個機械到花蓮可以看得出他們的問題就是跟地方政府的取得那個許可就停車的許可"},{"start":11952.487,"end":11976.881,"text":"行車的時刻當然啊我們政府就是有義務要來跟他們討協助你讀的問題都會去找他們出來幫忙啊所以這一點我也是感謝我們交通部啦也是初步啦但是初步幫他們解決的還不過你還要再召開地方政府來做協調不然他們要取得停車的問題還是沒辦法去解決啊就是他那個時刻的問題啊"},{"start":11978.79,"end":11991.099,"text":"感謝委員 我們這個法制化的過程在中央的法制的部分都已經做得完善了那現在就是地方政府的配合的部分我們再積極跟地方政府來溝通看怎麼樣配合我們這些業者讓他們更方便的能夠停車好 這一點呢"},{"start":12004.602,"end":12015.949,"text":"好 謝謝吳清明委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 交通部長備詢 謝謝接下來我們本日最後一位交通組登記的質詢委員邱義營委員請準備 請發言"},{"start":12035.753,"end":12044.437,"text":"謝謝韓主席我是不是請一下卓院長跟NCC主委麻煩再請卓院長通訊傳播委員會備詢"},{"start":12051.516,"end":12068.69,"text":"區委員好院長早院長我上個禮拜本席正好有一個機會可以參與我們高雄市消防局的特搜的訓練所以實際到了柴山參與的搜救大隊的搜救訓練營"},{"start":12070.151,"end":12098.568,"text":"那在參與的這個過程裡頭其實跟搜救大隊跟消防局的隊員對談的時候我發現其實這幾年來在山區救援最大的困難度當然除了地形的險惡之外其實有很多的困難是在於通訊的死角造成求援困難 求救困難給院長看一下這個是大概這幾年柴山的這些通報的救護案件的統計表"},{"start":12101.518,"end":12129.328,"text":"我們查出了舉了一個實例就是在2020年的時候當時有一個中鋼的主任也是在攀登柴山在那個攀登的過程裡面他失聯超過5天所以失救他的手機最後的通訊地點跟他被發現的地點其實是有一大段很遠的距離"},{"start":12130.268,"end":12142.034,"text":"那這幾年其實在柴山的這個西海岸的秘境造訪的人次其實越來越多但是呢通訊的死角的問題一直沒有辦法獲得解決"},{"start":12142.867,"end":12171.206,"text":"那我知道其實NCC他們在這幾年我們有一個所謂的山區通訊品質計畫對不對但是NCC講說這個山區的通訊品質改善會面臨到山屋 步道跟多處它是受於偏遠限制性開發的地區所以呢我們要跟主管機關去協調使用包括交通 電力等等基礎設施的資源評估"},{"start":12174.111,"end":12177.881,"text":"那是挑戰所以就不做還是沒辦法做"},{"start":12179.339,"end":12201.89,"text":"這個我要不要 我請NCC說明一下是 跟委員報告關於這個我先講高雄市這個個案這個部分在柴山 在壽山這邊確實 陳主委員所講那過往我們三家電信還有我們NCC都非常的重視這一塊那其實現在壽山地區總共5G的基站就有51站4G的有26站 總共47站"},{"start":12203.351,"end":12224.494,"text":"那過去 47站是通訊點嗎你們設置的通訊點我告訴你你們有設置來給你看一下這個照片這個叫做通訊熱點所以你們在壽山柴山有設置這些通訊熱點告訴大家說這裡收訊會很好但是其實你們沒有增加"},{"start":12225.618,"end":12250.618,"text":"基地台的設置因為你們說有困難高雄市觀光局一直不斷的來跟NCC跟電信業者來做溝通你們只有設置了這個通訊點告訴大家這裡是熱點這裡可以收訊很好但是通訊死角的問題還是沒有辦法獲得解決我讓院長看一下這張照片這個就是我去參加搜救訓練的那個照片"},{"start":12251.559,"end":12271.586,"text":"我在這個坑洞裡面這個旁邊走出去不到5分鐘就是民宅但是這個地方竟然是一個收訊死角它是完全沒有訊號的台山、壽山其實離高雄市非常的近但是它卻常常發生收訊死角以導致救援困難這樣的狀態我要請"},{"start":12274.537,"end":12303.466,"text":"院長責成NCC是不是能夠跟幾個相關的單位比如說有一些壽山國家自然公園的範圍裡頭他會有牽涉到林務署會有牽涉到國防部的軍事基地的問題所以在通訊的設備的申請上面都會面臨到很多繁雜的程序這個部分是不是能夠去統合一下至少我們的山區的收訊我認為應該要持續增強院長你同意我的看法嗎"},{"start":12304.467,"end":12319.447,"text":"當然同意而且這個必要我們現在看出來我們資料上我們在壽山在消防局跟軍方的這個用地上面我們都增設了相當多的這個基地台如果不夠應該還要再增加因為這個不僅是一般的聯繫這牽扯到"},{"start":12321.71,"end":12340.22,"text":"安全的問題 如果登山安全的問題但如果你是在坑洞裡面這坑洞的問題就比較複雜一點坑洞裡面當然是收不到但是在那個範圍之內其實他還是很多搜尋的資料要求三大業者要本著服務的精神電發會都這麼收所以服務也要到位"},{"start":12341.702,"end":12365.309,"text":"跟委員補充報告委員關心的亞洲地區去年7月因為取得國防相關軍事單位的同意在那邊有設點所以那邊的死角這邊已經改善了就是亞洲那邊去年7月以後已經改善了我建議這樣啦還是要再去盤點啦因為我去實際參與了這樣的一個搜救訓練活動的時候發現其實真的還是有很多的搜訓死角"},{"start":12366.149,"end":12390.294,"text":"所以剛剛院長已經有這麼強烈的指示了我想這個NCC是不是能夠強力的要求我們的幾大電信業者大家通力合作不只是柴山我覺得台灣整體的山區的收訊都應該要去做一個全部的盤點全部的盤查安全是最重要的這一點我希望NCC能夠來協助好沒問題我們會去會堪好 接下來我還是要請教院長這個"},{"start":12393.233,"end":12399.229,"text":"馬上就要到12點了這個12點跟我今天的總質詢有什麼相關呢因為待會程序委員會要開會"},{"start":12400.836,"end":12424.534,"text":"行政院送來的財政收支劃分法到底會被退回還是可以排入議程我想院長你應該比任何人都關心吧對不對我就等待12點吧你再等待12點但是你還是要耐心的聽完我的質詢院長這個財政財劃法經過去年今年兩度的修正"},{"start":12426.052,"end":12449.333,"text":"我不敢說他越修越糟但是似乎他越修越偏離的軌道您同意我的看法嗎對我用兩句話就是依照11月14號修的再修版他是地方拿去更多的錢但不談市權分配這個對中央的財政造成最大的缺口而且我們沒有辦法編預算那如果依照"},{"start":12450.339,"end":12475.994,"text":"明年總預算所依據的這個去年通過的這個新版的裁判法是地方拿了錢一樣沒有做市權的分配所以中央地方的權責地方自治精神就無法落實所以這兩個裁判法您說的對越修問題越大第一次只出現離島的345億的問題第二次出現的是中央政府沒有辦法編預算的問題這個問題才大所以院長"},{"start":12477.66,"end":12486.86,"text":"國民黨一直講說行政院都不提出自己的版本出來所以我們現在行政院負責的提出了自己的版本我要來跟您討論一下我們自己的版本"},{"start":12487.932,"end":12516.384,"text":"台北市在每一個不管是誰的版本裡頭我們都一直講台北市分配到的永遠是最多南部分配到的永遠是最少那台北市是比較厲害嗎台北市比較會招商嗎你包括你的這個營利事業營業額的稅收台北市永遠分到都比別人多為什麼因為總公司設在台北嘛你包括台電中油的總公司都是設在台北啊污染在哪裡污染在南部啊在高雄啊"},{"start":12517.813,"end":12538.788,"text":"我本來是希望你能夠強制把這些總公司都把他們要求設到高雄去喔這樣子才能增加高雄的稅收嘛好如果不這樣子做我們現在提出來的包括行政院的版本包括本席的版本我們討論到了你要考量到土地面積高雄市我舉高雄市來講高雄市的土地面積是台北市的10倍"},{"start":12539.793,"end":12565.472,"text":"可是高雄市分配到的永遠比台北少受到的重視永遠比台北少我們要考慮到糧食安全的指數我們要考慮到我剛剛講的環境負荷的指數污染都在南部 稅收都在台北我們要考慮到剛剛講的離島考慮進去啦考慮到人口的比重所以行政院的版本現在行政院的版本提出來了院長你有沒有去跟"},{"start":12567.168,"end":12591.773,"text":"在野黨的委員們做過溝通做過討論讓他們能夠充分理解行政院現在提出的這個版本是比較具有可行性的是比較能夠有公平完整的去發展台灣所有的縣市的有沒有這樣做過去這一年我們六四是跟地方政府的財主人員包括地方首長都做過這個意見的交換跟溝通"},{"start":12592.421,"end":12608.937,"text":"那麼在立法院裡面我們是請執政黨黨團來就他們協商的過程當中能夠適度的來提出以及在協商之前能夠先把院版的內容精神能夠跟在野黨能做說明上禮拜也做這樣的說明"},{"start":12609.861,"end":12633.575,"text":"所以上禮拜我得到的訊息是不會繼續處理公式錯誤這個修法的問題而會在上禮拜或是今天就將行政院版來復回但是我們現在得到的結果完全不是這個一回事所以我們現在得到的結果是藍白不願意談嗎我希望他們能夠心平氣和的做下來看看這個財政收支劃分法"},{"start":12634.366,"end":12645.337,"text":"到底有沒有比較公平比較合理垂直分配有沒有比較合理水平分配有沒有比較公平如果有的話大家何不慎重的來面對它呢"},{"start":12646.067,"end":12668.153,"text":"院長我給您看了一個評論柯志恩委員是前國民黨智庫執行長上一次二修裁划法的時候他也在現場他當然是支持國民黨的版本這一次行政院的修正版提出來之後他說政院版的分配指標比現行的制度更為細緻"},{"start":12670.574,"end":12688.568,"text":"兼顧離島考量人口結構也照顧直轄市與工農業這個縣市的不同需求這些制度性的改善都值得肯定我們對65歲以上的老人、14歲以上的兒少都有加重支持"},{"start":12689.987,"end":12717.042,"text":"這是柯志恩委員的對 這是柯志恩委員的評論嘛還有榮林 雲木 土地的成本的管理成本也都不一樣的計算當然比較細緻啊這就是我們比較長的時間才有辦法做出這樣的內容出來可是我不知道到最後柯志恩委員會投哪一個版本他稱讚你是一回事啊但是投票又是另外一回事啊希望以民意為依歸所以 院長我在想齁才化法可以亂修"},{"start":12718.989,"end":12733.197,"text":"亂修之後受苦的是誰是地方政府是地方的人民是全民都受苦是全民受苦啊報告委員剛剛的質詢從十幾個委員下來都要求中央補助補助補助但是都說不要跟我談才化法"},{"start":12733.997,"end":12760.828,"text":"這是矛盾的談了財化法中央就沒有辦法補助要補助就要修到行政院的院版財化法行政院就可以補助我從早上第一個聽到現在國民黨的委員都要你補助國民黨的委員都要你支持各式各樣的計畫不管是資安的啦不管是科技的啦不管是交通的啦但是財化法他不談總預算他也不談總預算也不審要退回"},{"start":12761.65,"end":12768.957,"text":"那這國家到底要怎麼發展好 我現在撇開國民黨不說我現在只剩下三分鐘我要跟您談到"},{"start":12770.051,"end":12791.824,"text":"未來的發展性才化法要補助給地方因為地方未來的發展其實都關乎這個國家對這個地方的重視程度高雄是一個極度有未來性的地方一個城市所以剛剛我們高雄的幾位委員都會談到幾件事情第一個新機場的興建"},{"start":12793.405,"end":12811.511,"text":"新機場的興建我認為交通部或者是行政院我們應該要把眼光放遠應該要真的認真的去規劃去看待小港機場即使我們現在整修蓋新航廈它到2045年它還是會處於一個飽和的狀態"},{"start":12815.132,"end":12830.512,"text":"一個城市的發展一個國際性的城市的發展他必須要有相當像樣的國際機場的呈現所以不管是本席賴委員博弈委員邱志偉委員我們都提到了新機場的興建新機場的評估"},{"start":12832.995,"end":12849.907,"text":"甚至新機場的興建我覺得是不是行政院現在可以先行重啟填海造陸的計畫我不管你的評估到什麼時候會開始完成評估你能不能先開始來處理填海造陸的計畫"},{"start":12851.024,"end":12878.794,"text":"我已經說的是南星計畫的填海造我覺得南星計畫的填海造本身就是一個計畫但是南星計畫他是不是當一個新機場我們對西廠的這個選址第一個要考慮他的風向地質他的未來的航管整整整的問題所以要一次的選址是牽涉到未來幾十年的這個機場的使用所以我覺得南星計畫他的填海他本來就是一個計畫如果沒有其他的問題他就是進行對 就是進行了"},{"start":12880.174,"end":12900.731,"text":"那新機場的選址我們應該慎重但它也是一個選項之一是不是部長說明來 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求救困難給院長看一下這個是大概這幾年柴山的這些通報的救護案件的統計表"},{"start":84.639,"end":113.395,"text":"那我們查出了舉了一個實例就是在2020年的時候當時有一個這個中鋼的主任也是在攀登這個柴山在那個攀登的過程裡面他失聯超過5天所以失救那他的手機最後的通訊地點跟他被發現的地點其實是有一大段很遠的距離"},{"start":114.315,"end":126.081,"text":"那這幾年其實在柴山的這個西海岸的秘境造訪的人次其實越來越多但是呢通訊的死角的問題一直沒有辦法獲得解決"},{"start":126.912,"end":156.654,"text":"那我知道其實NCC他們在這幾年我們有一個所謂的山區通訊品質計劃對不對但是NCC講說這個山區的通訊品質改善會面臨到山屋步道跟多處它是受於偏遠限制性開發的地區所以呢我們要跟主管機關去協調使用包括交通電力等等基礎設施的資源評估這個是你們的挑戰"},{"start":158.48,"end":161.932,"text":"是挑戰所以就不做還是沒辦法做"},{"start":163.38,"end":185.954,"text":"這個我要不要 我請NCC說明一下是 跟委員報告關於這個我先講高雄市這個個案這個部分在柴山 在壽山這邊確實 陳主委員所講過往我們三家電信還有我們NCC都非常的重視這一塊那其實現在壽山地區總共5G的基站就有51站4G的有26站 總共47站"},{"start":187.395,"end":208.525,"text":"那過去是通訊點嗎你們設置的通訊點我告訴你你們有設置來給你看一下這個照片這個叫做通訊熱點所以你們在壽山柴山有設置這些通訊熱點告訴大家說這裡收訊會很好但是其實你們沒有增加"},{"start":209.662,"end":234.665,"text":"基地台的設置因為你們說有困難高雄市觀光局一直不斷的來跟NCC跟電信業者來做溝通你們只有設置了這個通訊點告訴大家這裡是熱點這裡可以收訊很好但是通訊死角的問題還是沒有辦法獲得解決我讓院長看一下這張照片這個就是我去參加搜救訓練的那個照片"},{"start":235.606,"end":255.658,"text":"我在這個坑洞裡面這個旁邊走出去不到5分鐘就是民宅但是這個地方竟然是一個收訊死角它是完全沒有訊號的台山、壽山其實離高雄市非常的近但是它卻常常發生收訊死角以導致救援困難這樣的狀態我要請"},{"start":258.598,"end":287.507,"text":"院長責成NCC是不是能夠跟幾個相關的單位比如說有一些壽山國家自然公園的範圍裡頭他會有牽涉到林務署會有牽涉到國防部的軍事基地的問題所以在通訊的設備的申請上面都會面臨到很多繁雜的程序這個部分是不是能夠去統合一下至少我們的山區的收訊我認為應該要持續增強院長你同意我的看法嗎"},{"start":288.667,"end":303.413,"text":"同意而且這個必要我們現在看出來我們資料上我們在壽山在消防局跟軍方的這個用地上面我們都增設了相當多的這個基地台如果不夠應該還要再增加因為這個不僅是一般的聯繫這牽扯到"},{"start":305.754,"end":324.277,"text":"安全的問題如果登山安全的問題但如果你是在坑洞裡面這坑洞的問題就比較複雜一點坑洞裡面當然是收不到但是在那個範圍之內其實他還是很多搜尋的資料要求三大業者要本著服務的精神電化會都這麼收所以服務也要到位"},{"start":325.438,"end":326.619,"text":"我建議這樣啦還是要再去盤點啦"},{"start":344.29,"end":370.016,"text":"實際參與了這樣的一個Socio訓練活動的時候發現其實真的還是有很多的收訊死角所以剛剛院長已經有這麼強烈的指示了我想這個NCC是不是能夠強力的要求我們的幾大電信業者大家通力合作不只是柴山我覺得台灣整體的山區的收訊都應該要去做一個全部的盤點全部的盤查安全是最重要的這一點我希望NCC能夠來協助好"},{"start":372.58,"end":383.278,"text":"接下來我還是要請教院長這個馬上就要到12點了這個12點跟我今天的總質詢有什麼相關呢因為待會程序委員會要開會"},{"start":384.881,"end":408.584,"text":"行政院送來的財政收支劃分法到底會被退回還是可以排入議程我想院長你應該比任何人都關心吧對不對我就等待12點吧你在等待12點但是你還是要耐心的聽完我的質詢院長這個財政財劃法經過去年今年兩度的修正"},{"start":410.117,"end":433.369,"text":"我不敢說他越修越糟但是似乎他越修越偏離的軌道您同意我的看法嗎對我用兩句話就是依照11月14號修的再修版他是地方拿去更多的錢但不談是全分配這個對中央的財政造成最大的缺口而且我們沒有辦法編預算那如果依照"},{"start":434.383,"end":460.038,"text":"明年總預算所依據的這個去年通過的這個新版的裁判法是地方拿了錢一樣沒有做市權的分配所以中央地方的權責地方自治精神就無法落實所以這兩個裁判法您說的對越修問題越大第一次只出現離島的345億的問題第二次出現的是中央政府沒有辦法編預算的問題這個問題才大所以院長"},{"start":461.724,"end":470.907,"text":"國民黨一直講說行政院都不提出自己的版本出來所以我們現在行政院負責的提出了自己的版本我要來跟您討論一下我們自己的版本"},{"start":471.977,"end":500.422,"text":"台北市在每一個不管是誰的版本裡頭我們都一直講台北市分配到的永遠是最多南部分配到的永遠是最少那台北市是比較厲害嗎台北市比較會招商嗎你包括你的這個營利事業營業額的稅收台北市永遠分到都比別人多為什麼因為總公司設在台北嘛你包括台電中油的總公司都是設在台北啊污染在哪裡污染在南部啊在高雄啊"},{"start":501.854,"end":522.832,"text":"我本來是希望你能夠強制把這些總公司都把他們要求設到高雄去喔這樣子才能增加高雄的稅收嘛好 如果不這樣子做我們現在提出來的包括行政院的版本 包括本席的版本我們討論到了你要考量到土地面積高雄市 我舉高雄市來講高雄市的土地面積是台北市的10倍"},{"start":523.837,"end":549.52,"text":"可是高雄市分配到的永遠比台北少受到的重視永遠比台北少我們要考慮到糧食安全的指數我們要考慮到我剛剛講的環境負荷的指數污染都在南部 稅收都在台北我們要考慮到剛剛講的離島考慮進去啦考慮到人口的比重所以行政院的版本現在行政院的版本提出來了院長你有沒有去跟"},{"start":551.229,"end":575.823,"text":"在野黨的委員們做過溝通做過討論讓他們能夠充分理解行政院現在提出的這個版本是比較具有可行性的是比較能夠有公平完整的去發展台灣所有的縣市的有沒有這樣做過去這一年我們六次是跟地方政府的財主人員包括地方首長都做過這個意見的交換跟溝通"},{"start":576.465,"end":592.976,"text":"那麼在立法院裡面我們是請執政黨黨團來就他們協商的過程當中能夠適度的來提出以及在協商之前能夠先把院版的內容精神能夠跟在野黨能做說明上禮拜也做這樣的說明"},{"start":593.917,"end":617.637,"text":"所以上禮拜我得到的訊息是不會繼續處理公式錯誤這個修法的問題而會在上禮拜或是今天就將行政院版來復回但是我們現在得到的結果完全不是這個一回事所以我們現在得到的結果是藍白不願意談嗎我希望他們能夠心平氣和的坐下來看看這個財政收支劃分法"},{"start":618.41,"end":636.263,"text":"到底有沒有比較公平比較合理垂直分貝有沒有比較合理水平分貝有沒有比較公平如果有的話大家何不慎重的來面對它呢院長我給您看了一個評論柯志恩委員是前國民黨智庫執行長"},{"start":638.123,"end":647.89,"text":"那上一次二修裁划法的時候呢他也在現場他當然是支持國民黨的版本這一次行政院的版的這個修正版提出來之後他說"},{"start":669.164,"end":694.516,"text":"我們對65歲以上的老人、14歲以上的兒少都有加重這個圈整離島也會算兩倍還有榮林、雲木、土地的管理成本也都不一樣的計算當然比較細緻這就是我們比較長的時間才有辦法做出這樣的內容出來可是我不知道到最後柯志恩委員會投哪一個版本他稱讚你是一回事啊但是投票又是另外一回事啊希望以民意為依歸"},{"start":696.42,"end":717.26,"text":"所以院長我在想齁才化法可以亂修亂修之後受苦的是誰是地方政府是地方的人民是全民都受苦是全民受苦啊報告委員剛剛的質詢從十幾個委員下來都要求中央補助補助補助但是都說不要跟我談才化法"},{"start":718.041,"end":744.87,"text":"這是矛盾的談了財化法中央就沒有辦法補助要補助就要修到行政院的院版財化法行政院就可以補助我從早上第一個聽到現在國民黨的委員都要你補助國民黨的委員都要你支持各式各樣的計畫不管是資安的啦不管是科技的啦不管是交通的啦但是呢財化法他不談總預算他也不談總預算也不審要退回"},{"start":745.694,"end":763.825,"text":"那這國家到底要怎麼發展好我現在撇開國民黨不說我現在只剩下三分鐘我要跟您談到未來的發展性才化法要補助給地方因為地方未來的發展其實都關乎這個國家對這個地方的重視程度"},{"start":765.706,"end":793.597,"text":"高雄是一個極度有未來性的地方一個城市所以剛剛我們高雄的幾位委員都會談到幾件事情第一個新機場的興建新機場的興建我認為交通部或者是行政院我們應該要把眼光放遠應該要真的認真的去規劃去看待小港機場即使我們現在整修蓋新航廈"},{"start":794.417,"end":809.513,"text":"他到2045年他還是會處於一個飽和的狀態一個城市的發展一個國際性的城市的發展他必須要有相當像樣的國際機場的呈現所以不管是本席賴委員"},{"start":810.914,"end":834.091,"text":"博弈委員 邱志偉委員 我們都提到了新機場的興建 新機場的評估甚至新機場的興建 我覺得是不是行政院現在可以先行重啟填海造陸的計畫我不管你的評估到什麼時候會開始完成評估你能不能先開始來處理填海造陸的計畫"},{"start":835.069,"end":862.571,"text":"我已經說的是南星計畫的填海照路我覺得南星計畫的填海照路它本身就是一個計畫但是南星計畫它適不適合當一個新機場我們對新機場的這個選址第一個要考慮它的風向 地質它的未來的航管整整的問題所以要一次的選址是牽涉到未來幾十年的這個機場的使用所以我覺得南星計畫它的填海它本來就是一個計畫如果沒有其他的問題它就是進行"},{"start":863.391,"end":884.756,"text":"對 就是進行了那新機場的選址我們應該慎重但它也是一個選項之一是不是部長說來 部長您補充說明一下南新計畫我們持續在推動也就是說填海造陸的工作我們會持續在推動我也要求港務公司加快這個速度因為我們目前所需要的土地的面積越來越大所以填海造陸我們持續會來進行"},{"start":886.226,"end":906.118,"text":"我知道天海造陸你們持續在進行但是南新計劃區可不可以蓋新機場我想大家現在都把眼光放在這個地方我們的期待都是在這裡所以我覺得這個應該要趕快去做一些評估啟動另外我剩下30秒我本來要準備我待會再書面給部長"},{"start":908.559,"end":935.635,"text":"六環六線高雄的整體的交通路網的建設我希望交通部行政院也能夠把眼光放到未來20年包括從台南高雄屏東整體路網的建置是不是能夠更完善把眼光往前放這一點我待會會把書面補充給交通部這個也希望交通部能夠納入但是你們不要一直在講說經濟效益不夠所以不做"},{"start":936.095,"end":938.782,"text":"我覺得很多的東西是要往前看20年好 謝謝邱盈瑋的質詢"}]}},{"id":"165809","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165809","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6325889ad8f272b5a88a3cd7d894ccafb583d2a9868c2e3c1c3e4c01308b4cb5a8298b5aff6b46715ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"11:35:41 - 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主席 我們議會同仁請我們卓院長以及我們交通部部長麻煩再請卓院長 交通部部長備詢"},{"start":32.952,"end":59.402,"text":"吳委員好部長好 院長好院長首先恭喜我們我國出口已經都創新高 財政部最新公布的10月份出口的金額已經達到618億美元 不僅是史上新高也突破了600億的美元大關 創下近15年來最大的漲幅我們累計1至10月出口"},{"start":62.883,"end":90.333,"text":"達到五千一百四十四億美元也提前刷新了歷史的紀錄那我們總統賴清德在演講中也講到台灣目前人均GDP已經達到三萬八千多美元已經超越了日本以及韓國的三萬六至三萬七那並有機會明年突破四萬美元大關"},{"start":91.573,"end":105.789,"text":"在這樣的出口籠井下顯示我國的產業競爭力及全球的需求同步的回升也讓我們市場對前景充滿了信心院長面對出口的景氣雙雙的提升的趨勢"},{"start":106.79,"end":123.114,"text":"你是否針對明年的明年度的稅收表現會持續的樂觀看待那我再一個問題那院長明年要是財政及還債都沒問題的前提之下是否優先考慮在普發現金請我們院長針對這兩點來做說明"},{"start":128.149,"end":156.014,"text":"謝謝吳委員剛剛的說明10月份的出口真的是創了新高而且增加的比例達到49.7%非常的高那1到10月份這個5144億的美元也年增率達到31.8%這個都是國人尤其各行各業其中當然高科技產業占了相當多ICT產業占了相當大的比例能夠這麼做代表台灣在現在國際製造業高科技產業和製造業的重要性"},{"start":156.494,"end":165.753,"text":"所以我們會在這個地方上繼續的保持台灣在國際領先的地位至於明年的稅收其實我們現在是趨於比較保守的因為在整個國際間"},{"start":167.199,"end":195.826,"text":"以及美國的關稅貿易關稅對等關稅談判之後整個世界會呈現一個新的後關稅時代那很多的變化到現在變數還是相當大我國跟美方在最後的談判還沒有達到最終的總結會議那雖然其他國家大致完成但其中也充滿了若干的變數所以明年我們採取比較保守的估計但是一個國家即使我們的稅收應收的比預算的多"},{"start":196.526,"end":220.172,"text":"應收數超過預算數也不應該把它定額一定放在普發現金國家有國家更重大的需求比方我們的國家安全比方我們救災準備比方我們整個科技發展如果我們和平性的考量國家才有整體性向國外競爭的競爭力所以我們認為第一個保守估計明年的稅收再來審慎合理的如果"},{"start":220.592,"end":229.271,"text":"所以說真的有時增數超過預算數的時候要依照國家最需要的實際用途我們來做全盤性的規劃"},{"start":231.149,"end":251.666,"text":"對 因為大家都對明年的稅收還是保持的非常的樂觀那我說全國的民眾的期待我認為要是在我們的財政以及我們的還債能力之下我們行政院還是要來考慮一下是不是明年有剩餘的還是還政移民"},{"start":253.527,"end":281.298,"text":"這是本席的建議那再來因為我們過去在我們的陳建仁院長推動了TPAS這成效都應該是很好是大家都肯定包含我們賴清德總統在旅遊展也特別提到台灣是以觀光立國打造一個觀光的國家隊這願景真的大家都是很興奮"},{"start":282.518,"end":303.124,"text":"那我本席這邊的資料1到9月我國觀光的逆差高達805萬人次代表出國的旅客遠遠多於來台的旅客要扭轉這情況除了吸引國際的觀光客更應積極推動國旅的內需的成長"},{"start":304.301,"end":315.686,"text":"那國裡的發展也不只是我們就是要提升嘛那交通上是關鍵根據統計喔在今年九月底全台已經有超過1822萬人是購買交通業票"},{"start":321.328,"end":342.925,"text":"那近幾年來最受歡迎的之一就證明整個制度設計得宜價格合理民眾的意願都當然他們都希望說搭乘我們公共的運輸工具那本席這邊慎重的一個建議台灣65歲以上的人口已經佔了多少448萬人"},{"start":346.548,"end":368.135,"text":"那政府應該推出由中央統籌我們各地方政府發出的敬老卡由我們中央出面來整合民眾主要致富少許的費用像我們過去推動的TPAS一樣的月票不再受限於長輩每個月的點數"},{"start":369.735,"end":391.343,"text":"那全國都可以使用這個公共運輸那目前我本期所在的地方是新北市的敬老卡點數一個月就480點那又不能跨越使用讓許多的我們的長者持有卡的第一又不捨得用"},{"start":392.183,"end":420.1,"text":"又怕用不夠那反而讓我們政府的這個成效就大大打折那中央的預算都是中央跟地方的預算都是以年度年度來計算那所以我們應該是由中央出面原理我們的敬老卡以年度的額度增加我們長者使用的彈性那院長我們家都有老人嘛"},{"start":420.62,"end":442.19,"text":"那我也希望說未來我們推出屬於我們的銀髮族的銀帕斯因為國旅要護輸最大的潛力客群其實是我們長輩因為有的長輩他們要出國都不方便那要是你年度使用的話他們更有彈性那我看就能帶動我們台灣的旅遊的護輸"},{"start":445.911,"end":472.077,"text":"這一點應該是非常的重要所以我認為我們未來的T-PASS因為前陣子的T-PASS推動的很好那未來部長這應該要研議我們的INPASS讓我們老人他們有尊嚴他不是老人一個人兩個人出去啊他整個他的兒孫都會陪同啊這樣你才能帶動整個觀光市場這是一個真的非常"},{"start":472.817,"end":473.498,"text":"非常重要,所以本集會正式提案"},{"start":476.983,"end":505.555,"text":"這個因為TPAS非常受到國人的支持交通部也提出了TPAS 2.02.0更有多的優惠那麼敬老的部分各縣市有若干不同的規範那如果說TPAS 2.0的常客的優惠再加上各縣市也許他的折扣會更低總部長來說說明跟委員報告我們TPAS 2.0也可以結合敬老卡使用那如果結合敬老卡使用的話算起來大概三到五折因為我們法定本來就是50%就是五折"},{"start":506.135,"end":524.974,"text":"那如果再加上我們TPAS 2.0結合進老票的話大概就會三到五折的折扣啦所以是會非常非常的多的折扣那另外我們還有一個方案就是有一些老人家他不想開車了他想要繳回駕照的話如果繳回駕照我們的折扣會更多"},{"start":525.675,"end":552.323,"text":"那兩年之內他使用TPAS這樣結合起來的話大概就等於是二五折的優惠給所有的老人家那委員在建議的就是說整體性的針對銀髮族的這個部分可能還需要因為這個也跟地方政府會相關所以除了交通部之外我們也跟地方政府必須要來討論看看有沒有這樣的可能性我們來研議看看好 我跟院長跟部長報告當初我們TPAS一推動本來桃園 桃節桃節的捷運"},{"start":555.543,"end":581.284,"text":"都非常空蕩根本連公司的經營都有問題那T-Pass一推動你看桃姐就整個公司的營運都正常都有營業那未來我們全國很多捷運你可以讓他們除了有InPass一張卡全國走透透那不只他一個老人出門他的兒孫都會陪同這是我們未來最大的商機"},{"start":583.045,"end":605.553,"text":"這才像我們總統所講的台灣是一個觀光利果的所以我們一定要這樣趕快來做推動這我認為是一個非常可行又可以帶動台灣整個觀光整個景氣的回升這是對我們台灣的人民都是一個非常好的利多對我們老人也是一種尊重"},{"start":606.261,"end":623.002,"text":"我們來繼續加強整合把它整合起來對老人的折扣會更合理對 因為一定要跟地方政府我們全國都是統一這樣對我們老人他們要鼓勵他們走出來對我們整個產業都是有幫助好不好"},{"start":623.541,"end":651.733,"text":"好的謝謝委員再來我請問部長其實本席在上一次我也提到我們的六五在土城 三峽不管是京城交流道包含山陰 捷運 萬大縣還有山陰縣還有我們很多的建設但是本席這邊還是慎重來要求我們六五的延伸"},{"start":652.393,"end":664.943,"text":"早期六五延伸在我們公共工程會五則城根本是開了六七次的會議也取得了我們的可行性評估現在已經進入我們初期"},{"start":666.067,"end":681.168,"text":"我們的起初的報告也通過了那其中的報告我們已經拖了三次那問題出在哪裡我們總是要來解決因為土層這邊的工業區你看一年的聯產值"},{"start":682.29,"end":697.922,"text":"就超過一千多億那整個交通都已經飽和了又可以紓解我們國道3號的車流量那未來這是一個急迫性啊那一個急迫性未來為什麼會拖了三次請我們部長做說明"},{"start":698.582,"end":727.175,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分因為它整體的路廊牽涉到的面向其實比較廣這裡有台鐵的也有高鐵的還有地方徵收的還有就是因為我們是沿著大漢溪旁邊在走所以跟水利單位也會有相關的關係所以這個部分我們目前在審議的過程當中必須要邀集的單位其實相對是比較多一點這個部分我們會再加速委員在督促我們就會盡量再加速讓它速度更快一些"},{"start":728.07,"end":755.894,"text":"部長 我跟你報告 早期我跟公共工程會吳澤成開過七次會議 包含新北市 桃園還有我們的相關單位都來開會早期就提出這個問題那當時在吳志偉的推動之下都已經排除了很多的因素了那現在怎麼 一個提出怎麼一言再言 那問題還是要去解決啊"},{"start":756.687,"end":785.576,"text":"那是不是拜託部長這是一個積極一定要更為積極我們才可以來達成這個目標因為這才能徹底的解決因為三峽這邊的人口尤其北大尤其土層工業區這對我們的產業都是非常大的幫助這一點都拜託囉報告委員我們今年年底之前看可不可以完成其中的報告的審議好不好 跟您報告我希望有好的結果啦 好不好"},{"start":786.158,"end":808.861,"text":"那再來咧就像我們上一次我所跟部長爭取的我們前瞻最後一筆的經費就是停車場嘛那長湖橋現在已經都在做了吧也將近要完工了吧那問題就是那個長湖橋那個停車場他現在你未來要做好你還要再等"},{"start":809.742,"end":838.289,"text":"兩三年那是不是可以再找個適當的地方來做臨時停車場都可以因為我們三峽這個老街已經在上一屆那個林部長都到那三峽去宣布我們經典城市經典的小鎮那未來這個觀光客要吸引當然就是停車的問題這一點我要拜託我們交通部找一個適當的地點來做為停車臨時的停車啦"},{"start":840.217,"end":866.91,"text":"委員所建議的幾個地點其中牽扯到財政部國產署它的非公用土地還要請財政部國產署再來好好的來規劃看看有沒有如果非公用土地短期間沒有什麼重大的公共用途的話那是不是大概也提供出來再請財政部來檢討這要拜託院長院長來督促會比較快這樣才能解決地方上的問題"},{"start":868.174,"end":895.618,"text":"那本期還有一個比較重要因為時間上的問題就是我上一次所講的就是機械機械設備我們的重機械你看這一次花蓮的映射5R也是要靠他們那個機械公衛他們所帶動整個機械到花蓮可以看得出他們的問題就是跟地方政府的取得那個許可就停車的許可"},{"start":896.534,"end":920.925,"text":"行車的時刻當然啊 政府就是有義務要來幫他們協助你多的問題都會去找他們出來幫忙啊所以這一點我也是感謝我們交通部啦也是初步啦 但是初步幫他們解決的還不過你還要再召開地方政府來做協調不然他們要起的停車的問題還是沒辦法去解決啊就是他那個時刻的問題啊"},{"start":922.835,"end":935.143,"text":"感謝委員我們這個法制化的過程在中央的法制的部分都已經做得完善了那現在就是地方政府的配合的部分我們再積極跟地方政府來溝通看怎麼樣配合我們這些業者讓他們更方便的能夠停車好 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基本的服務是有那現在都沒有嗎"},{"start":162.281,"end":188.415,"text":"所以我們要加快腳步所以我要跟院長分享低軌衛星在戰爭的時候非常的重要如果發生戰爭其他通訊的設施可能會被摧毀低軌衛星就是重要的備援方案另外一方面平時也可以用於救災會維持偏遠地區的通訊譬如說我們可以看到日本由於山脈島嶼眾多高達四成地區沒有訊號"},{"start":189.215,"end":208.344,"text":"台灣也是很多山馬對吧Sarlink以最新的衛星基礎讓5G 4G的手機可以直接連結做救災跟防災另外今天就在這個時刻烏克蘭也已經開通了直接讓手機可以連線衛星持續保有通訊"},{"start":209.144,"end":234.88,"text":"然而目前行政院所屬的各部會對於建構國家通訊韌性的立場實在是不一致NCC主管的電信管理法第36條仍然限制使用電信資源的公眾電信網路業者董事長要中華民國國籍設置相關可能這個外國持有的股份不得超過49%間接直接不能超過60%即便我們數碼部部長也在這裡"},{"start":236.2,"end":261.452,"text":"說強化國家衛星通訊國家通訊韌性為政治目標但是受限法規台灣其實距離多元通訊的網路還有很長的距離所以院長我們真的是想問我們能不能更加多元不是說以後而是現在就能夠有更多元的衛星通訊前幾天還有報告指出2022年俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭的時候"},{"start":261.892,"end":278.951,"text":"本來莫斯科要遮蔽這個衛星通訊的網路但是因為SpaceX的衛星這個Sarlink有超過5000顆現在已經到8000顆了透過一些程式的更新立刻讓他們的干擾失效現在還有中國在研究"},{"start":279.471,"end":300.299,"text":"要通過無人機來遮蓋那如果我們只有一顆啊這其實影響非常的大如果連結的衛星數量不夠多很可能一瞬間就會被電池屏障啊所以我們希望能夠來講的就是要確保國安就不能只靠那一顆衛星啊別人已經把答案都告訴我們了我們不能只依賴那個1啊"},{"start":301.179,"end":325.913,"text":"現在非常多的業者都已經提供800顆甚至8000顆但是我們的電信法民國47年制定以來到現在僵化70年的這個法案啊108年又公布施行完全是跟不上現在的時代從那個時候到現在完全沒有改我們剛剛又提到烏克蘭今天才剛宣布手機可以直連starlink所以我想要院長啊我們料敵從寬欲敵從嚴啊"},{"start":327.954,"end":356.926,"text":"強化衛星通訊的韌性通訊整體多元的韌性就是強化國安也要維護我們民眾自由接取網路通信的這個服務啊能不能夠責成NCC以及速發部研議重新檢討電信管理法的相關規定讓台灣的天空能夠向全世界可以信賴的衛星服務開放好 我請林部長跟陳書偉就我們已經在進行的以及可以公開向委員說明的部分來說說明"},{"start":357.846,"end":386.07,"text":"跟委員報告兩點第一點電信管理法第36條外資的規定部分其實是相對不是問題目前中華電信其實高軌中軌低軌都有到位那明年也有另外一顆同步衛星高軌衛星會到位那另外委員提到的外資是不是造成一個國外的衛星體系落地台灣的困擾其實不會的我們這個規定是在電信法時期就定電信法時期"},{"start":386.51,"end":409.175,"text":"不好意思 我打斷您你們過去講到其他的一些公司要進來都用這個51% 都用這個台灣人你現在又說沒有關係 法條就在那裡我們能不能來研議修法能不能研議修法 不要拖我時間啊根本報告 OneWeb進來其實就是跟中華電信合作它一樣是符合正式六條的規定"},{"start":410.075,"end":427.322,"text":"我跟您報告啊NCC其實今年8月就有書面答覆交通委員會啊表示審酌產業發展可以調適監理法規啊現在就是最好的時機院長可不可以允諾一下我們已經有在做了來請部長說明我跟委員報告一下齁您剛才只要只有一顆衛星應該指的是"},{"start":427.882,"end":450.575,"text":"那個高軌的那個同步衛星啊事實上我們現在有中軌也有低軌低軌的one web我們已經運行一年多了我們中軌衛星現在在譬如說在東沙什麼的這個早就已經通信了這個我們都已經有了one web只有800顆方向而且它高度是1200公里很容易被遮蔽我們應該要開放讓更多的"},{"start":451.155,"end":466.543,"text":"多元的通訊能夠來保衛台灣我們是不是一起來研議修法這個完全同意委員說法謝謝謝謝院長對不起我跟院長說話不好意思部長麻煩您謝謝院長本席認為我們所面臨的挑戰真的非常嚴峻"},{"start":467.803,"end":495.649,"text":"請院長能不能承諾由行政院協調速發部跟NCC參採我們剛剛已經看到日本烏克蘭都已經通過了都已經手機可以直連了你現在在跟我講什麼1200公里的沒有沒有關係院長我們可不可以承諾評估在必要的時候以專案的方式許可我們信賴的可以信賴的外國的衛星而且是排名前幾的能夠更多元的向台灣來提供衛星服務可以嗎"},{"start":496.789,"end":517.405,"text":"剛剛部長已經說明過了我們的低軌衛星已經試行運行多一段時間了我們現在還沒辦法連線啊烏克蘭已經在運作我們照我們的騎乘在進行了我們這個電信法有沒有機會來修正演繹修正可以嗎這真的是我們的大家真的非常擔憂啊日本為烏克蘭已經可以了不要再跟我講以後"},{"start":518.266,"end":540.058,"text":"我們現在這個電信法真的卡在這裡院長可不可以承諾修法是與時俱進但修的要合理不要修的讓他不能用或是傳承其他問題所以如果合理我們就一起來努力可以嗎跟委員報告關於電信管理法第36條關於外資比例之限制事實上是我國台灣加入WTO的時候的承諾所以適用於所有會員國"},{"start":541.519,"end":555.578,"text":"不好意思其實規定須具備一致性我打斷啦事實上你們去調查一下ST2的衛星啊新加坡佔比是62%啦也完全違反你們相關的規定啦所以相關的規定要趕快鬆綁可以嗎 院長我們可以檢討我們進行研議調適 謝謝"},{"start":559.363,"end":560.984,"text":"這個技術已經成熟而且超過人類駕駛甚至更加的安全那現在呢已經在昨天韓國已經推出了"},{"start":579.415,"end":600.247,"text":"FSD亞洲第二個獲得相關的這個市場日本也預計在明年第一季第二季會推出那接下來其實英國2025年要更新德國12月就要開放了請問院長我們現在事實上有根據交通部這個請交通部如果可以的話上來"},{"start":601.047,"end":616.865,"text":"交通部特斯拉大約於兩三個月前有來詢問FSD的申請程序請問院長第一台灣能不能循其他國家的模式至少在明年賣出自動駕駛法制化的程序第一步"},{"start":617.366,"end":643.559,"text":"否則我們現在還在做什麼呢每一個人在這些先進的國家一天可能節省一兩個小時這是效率的問題第二 能否比照其他國家的做法讓FSD逐步進行一般道路的測試院長可不可以承諾我們配合國家各種產業的進化以及世界上如果有先進的這種技術能夠讓我們共同研發我們當然法制化可以來跟得上腳步"},{"start":644.019,"end":663.093,"text":"好謝謝喔真的是希望能夠讓搭載台灣生產的晶片由大量台灣工程師投入研發的自駕車結果現在台灣不能上路我們希望可以一起來努力跟院長一起努力那另外無獨有偶我們剛剛提到的FSD是自用車啦那近來中美科技巨頭呢百度啦 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跨年度的專案"},{"start":862.54,"end":877.287,"text":"可以嗎 資安的預算如果不足我們會想辦法來加強但我們希望民間大家有自己的這個意識才能夠公私合作但是現在也是需要資源啦好不好 我們幫大家爭取一下認同嗎 好不好跨年度的專案可以嗎 院長"},{"start":878.536,"end":892.68,"text":"既然您不認同59塊的便當費可以嗎?跨年期的專這不是我在申請好 謝謝那委員要先支持我們中央政府總預算我們都非常希望能夠有合理的編列明年的中央政府總預算要先審不好意思我先有限謝謝我們還是要來和院長談論最後的議題"},{"start":898.743,"end":912.854,"text":"這個錯誤打仗打到親愛人權在8月15號本席在這個地方遞交了我們錯殺數位賬號自救會5000人的這個自救的這個自救書結果我們相關的部會回應我們說14個月來"},{"start":915.516,"end":930.805,"text":"只有不到百件的申訴案件那我們遞交給院長到底到哪裡去了呢金管會14個月來79件速發布14個月來說只有6件申訴了那到底那些申訴那些血淚到哪裡去了呢所以院長"},{"start":931.505,"end":952.446,"text":"其實我們真的是希望能夠要求您部長不好意思我還沒有請您說話院長本席希望能夠要求向立法院以及全民給個交代第一單一申訴窗口第二定期公佈停權社廷賬號數量申訴以及恢復的數量第三檢討演算法第四不要拿民眾來實驗可以嗎"},{"start":972.015,"end":972.035,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165807","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165807","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6325889ad8f272b583741b304084ebb1b583d2a9868c2e3c1c3e4c01308b4cb519bde232eb5524465ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林憶君","委員發言時間":"11:02:48 - 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驗射虎又太多所以現在很多的交通都還受阻"},{"start":177.406,"end":194.782,"text":"光光是那一條馬太安溪橋修了變道又壞那最近28號28號又修好我們還要再去看是不是真的修好修好之後還沒有一些危險一些疑慮所以針對花蓮的這個地方的建設公共的設施我們投入很多"},{"start":195.37,"end":215.376,"text":"投入這麼多無非就是希望能夠讓花蓮的觀光能夠盡快的振興起來因為這是花蓮最重要的資源那現在在泰魯閣的部分除了開放幾個大清水遊戲區等等幾個小部分之外局部性開放之外還是有很多比方這個長春池等等他還是沒有辦法的"},{"start":216.004,"end":231.43,"text":"那也做了一些路段在時段上面的管制也不是全天性的開放所以說造成很多觀光客沒有辦法很便利那我們會想這個交通部公路局相關的單位會緊速的把花蓮地區的道路"},{"start":231.85,"end":251.7,"text":"工程能夠盡速的完成 讓他能夠在安全無虞之下我們才能進一步來提供更好的觀光資源好 院長說得對 其實太魯閣是很多國外觀光客會來的地方那現在太魯閣那邊 這樣就是整個觀光點的整個關閉的話 其實是影響到觀光花蓮的觀光是一個很大的問題所以剛才有談到長春池這個問題長春池是整個太魯閣要"},{"start":257.979,"end":276.546,"text":"最近的最近那個太魯閣管理處那個地方所以我想問一下就是現在的長春池這個步道還有這整個基本的設計的作業是不是已經完成了呢因為我看長春池那邊的復建工程其實省議已經通過了而且九月份交通部也"},{"start":277.306,"end":298.656,"text":"協請國土署已經代辦了那請問這個什麼時候可以順利開放了因為我覺得它是最接近太廣處的其實那個地方是比較好修復的所以我想請陳部長部長說明一下我有跟委員報我一直希望我能夠境外到長春池即使能夠看到它它沒有修復看到它因為我一直要求我要把長春池"},{"start":299.997,"end":328.44,"text":"還給太魯閣 把太魯閣還給全世界所以我們一定要這個做到那長春池的部分希望能夠盡速的把它修復的工程能夠完成 請部長說明是 各位委員報告因為這個是太管處的業務那目前我們交通部這邊也有協助啦在這個修復的部分那另外就是說針對道路修復的部分邊坡其實還不太穩定還是會有落實所以我們一天這個道路只有開放五個時段只有五個時段 在夜間也不開放"},{"start":329.24,"end":348.23,"text":"這個部分我們會盡快來努力不過大自然的力量其實相當的大我們一直在修復的過程當中前一陣子您也看到燕子口又有一個燕色湖所以又阻塞了幾天我們持續在努力當中我們希望在116年的時候整個道路都可以讓它更穩定一點這個部分我們正在做努力"},{"start":348.715,"end":372.928,"text":"好 謝謝因為我想長出此是在整個太魯閣現在修復中是覺得是應該是比較容易的事情而且它又是接近太廣出其實是一個很好的景點所以我也希望陳部長可以在這方面因為我看現在情況應該是都差不多了就是在道路上面道路又是交通不管的所以我是想說這個可以加快腳步希望那個部長可以和院長可以重視這塊好的"},{"start":379.124,"end":405.718,"text":"接下來我要請教一下就是說花蓮人最關心的公路上面的問題怎麼樣給花蓮一個安全和回家的路就是花蓮人都是盡快興建的蘇花安公路蘇花安現在的話和國五的銜接蘇花改目前現在整個進度到底是怎樣工程是不是有執行上面的困難因為我看114年已經快要結束了有沒有把握在115年的時候發包動工"},{"start":407.119,"end":417.652,"text":"而且塑化案在和平和中段這邊當初是規劃119年就能完工那有沒有信心在121年全部都整個順利完工呢"},{"start":419.348,"end":440.911,"text":"跟委員報告蘇花改在銜接國道5號的部分我們目前正在設計當中那像委員所說的希望明年能夠看有沒有機會可以動工這個部分我們全力來努力全力來努力看可不可以明年可以讓他動工那其實這幾年的這個交通一步一步在改善不過遇到403的這個地震當然就是造成大家比較"},{"start":441.751,"end":461.221,"text":"大的傷害道路上面比較大的傷害我們也逐步在讓道路變得更穩定尤其是邊坡的部分我們的蘇花公路除了蘇花改之外的其他路段尤其是河仁跟崇德這一段比較不穩定我們現在也透過各種工程的方式在做改善"},{"start":462.691,"end":483.152,"text":"因為我想我從上任到現在為了替花蓮人爭取一條安全回家的路其實我在院會質詢這個已經第四次了可是我看了相關工程其實進度到現在還是停滯不前其實花蓮人真的是等了一輩子應該沒有辦法再繼續等下輩子還要繼續等所以我請院長和部長可以對這方面重視好嗎"},{"start":485.417,"end":510.999,"text":"蘇阿安的部分我們已經正式核定他就會依照時程來做今年已經正式核定了台九蘇阿安的工程計畫那他這個工程因為經費也相當高要到達1056億所以說希望都可以在這個期程內完成因為之前的話整個的規劃其實已經都已經延後兩年了可是我想說這個新的整個的整個的進度我想說還是要要注意一下好不好好的 謝謝"},{"start":512.58,"end":539.01,"text":"接下來就是說還有一個就是比較容易簡單做的我們花蓮的交通上面的問題就是鐵路高架化就是花蓮市區的鐵路的高架化的交通的問題花蓮市集安鄉甘城站的沿路總共有七個穿越鬧區的平面的交通整個平交道這個路其實長期都被認為是交通最非常最大風險區然後應該花蓮要優先改善的危險路段"},{"start":540.751,"end":569.51,"text":"這個針對民眾來講其實民眾真的地方的民怨不斷大家都期盼著能夠讓鐵路的立體化這樣我想請教一下部長就是還有院長就是為什麼前兩任的交通部長林佳榮還有王國才都已經在國會上面已經親口答應了承諾要將花蓮到甘城的高價化這個納入鐵路雙軌化的計畫並由中央全額的負擔整個經費但結果為什麼計畫書送到行政院之後就黃牛跳票了"},{"start":569.79,"end":596.848,"text":"被退回來還說要改成別的依據所以要求地方政府也要負擔整個的配合款然後也就是中央已經不願意負擔全部的這個整個的全額負擔費用了那為什麼交通部早就已經答應說鐵路高教化合併到花東鐵路雙軌化的計畫工程這是一個非常簡單的地方的建設計畫但是他是一再的在跳票然後現在甚至還要花蓮縣政府"},{"start":597.188,"end":625.427,"text":"要重新來評估並付單部分的配合款那是不是又讓整個計畫都回到原點了呢那這樣中央和地方政府都是這樣來來回回的過程中其實陳部長你也公開的回應說這個承諾到花蓮到甘城這一個整個鐵路高架化的工程你也承諾說不會讓這個工程延宕為什麼一個鐵路高架化在西部的縣市其實早就是一個非常基本的交通的建設"},{"start":626.207,"end":646.019,"text":"而且在花蓮居然就會那麼的困難重重呢所以還有說花蓮當然不希望被政府漠視所以花蓮人到現在當然不但等不到一條順利回家的路而且還是最主要是簡單的市區的鐵路高架化都期盼不到在六月考察那一天"},{"start":646.579,"end":672.447,"text":"交通的委員會的召委林國成也決議兩個月由交通部鐵道局跟花蓮縣政府溝通然後經了解花蓮縣政府也在9月10號提交了吉安高價化的可行性研究然後目前鐵道局審查中那請問部長就現在已經11月了然後現在審查的結果是如何呢還有鐵道局和交通部有沒有規劃那整個期程"},{"start":673.476,"end":691.506,"text":"跟委員報告這一段就像委員剛剛所提到的西部有看到一些鐵路都已經立體化了立體化的原則其實全國都一樣也就是說中央負擔部分的經費地方也會負擔部分的經費在西部走廊幾乎都是同樣的狀況"},{"start":692.927,"end":710.314,"text":"那最近的這個宜蘭也有這個高加化的議題那也是地方也必須要有所負擔所以花蓮跟全國的其他各個地方都用一模一樣的機制在走那很感謝花蓮縣政府在九月也已經送他的這個可行性研究的這個報告已經進來了"},{"start":711.574,"end":727.38,"text":"我們目前鐵道局正在審議當中我們會加快審議的腳步我們希望跟花蓮縣政府大家一起來合作趕快把大家所期盼的花蓮到吉安的這一段的立體化工程可以趕快讓它來進行這個部分我們會來努力因為"},{"start":730.12,"end":754.128,"text":"因為部長你也知道這個鐵路高焦化的工程其實今天這次今年你有去嘛有去地方考察你有看到當時的情況當初的當時的那個民眾也是都有反應那個地方其實真的是也死傷很多人所以畢竟這七個在花蓮市的平面的平交道其實都是針對花蓮民眾的生命上面的安全是很重要的"},{"start":755.262,"end":771.803,"text":"是 這個部分我們有聽到地方的聲音其實我到很多地方大家都會講同樣的話我們都希望能夠趕快把想要努力的工程的方向大家一起合作中央跟地方大家一起合作趕快把它完成就可以完成地方的鄉親的願望"},{"start":774.349,"end":791.082,"text":"接下来也是要请教一下花东快速道路的问题我想最近这几年花年天灾比较多所以交通就是一个非常大的问题我想不仅从台北宜兰到花年的公路不安全"},{"start":791.582,"end":807.858,"text":"花蓮廣南的道路也經常是因為天災發生交通不便今年九月的時候才因為華嘉沙颱風不容易搶修的恢復的通車秀姑蘭溪高樓的便道還有府里的輪天便道都是被好雨整個摧毀了所以因此"},{"start":808.479,"end":826.989,"text":"花東快速道路的建設其實也是有迫切性的需要今本席我要追蹤花東快進度的與上會期本席總諮詢時一樣還是停留在可行性的評估然後自從109年10月就重啟評估到現在還有在交通部與公路局之間"},{"start":827.549,"end":855.286,"text":"这样文来文返的情况还有来来回回情况下时间这样一下子就过了6年了而其实初次的评估是在103年那个时候评估的也就是这条评估的路已经总共实际上已经走了11年那我想问一下就是现在评估到底遇到了有什么样的困难呢而且真正评估那么多年这次是不是可以克服呢那花东快的话究竟是会不会审查成功呢"},{"start":856.368,"end":873.981,"text":"跟委員報告過去每一次評估沒有辦法過都是因為它的經濟效益不足經濟效益不足那是過去的原因那現在正在做可行性評估當中還沒有做結論出來我也不曉得說它的結論會是怎麼樣目前還不曉得那什麼時候可以出來呢"},{"start":874.741,"end":895.05,"text":"這個部分我要再問一下公路局不過也要跟委員補充報告其實在花東中間的這一段這個公路我們目前有這個安全景觀大道的這個拓寬的計畫您也應該都很清楚這個部分正在進行當中那也是一個百億的計畫正在進行當中我們希望說這一段趕快把它做好"},{"start":895.81,"end":918.305,"text":"讓花蓮到台東的這一段的過程能夠更安全而且行車的效率可以更高這個部分我們正在努力所以工程正在做這個部分是正在做那比較長遠來看的話大家希望爭取的這個快速道路過去它經濟效益不足那我們現在正在評估我也希望說公路局的評估的報告可以趕快出來那我會再跟委員來做報告"},{"start":920.39,"end":940.584,"text":"那接下來還有一個就是公路上面的問題花蓮南北向道路還有東西向的整個公路據我了解國道6號東延到花蓮從112年起到昨天已經召開第六次的整個會議了那請問部長昨天的會議結果是怎麼樣呢這一條道路最早出現的時候在討論是75年開始辦理的中橫好謝謝"},{"start":957.816,"end":958.959,"text":"好谢谢林义军委"}]}},{"id":"165806","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165806","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6325889ad8f272b50c5fb7c47d1ba787b583d2a9868c2e3c1c3e4c01308b4cb555b575a02889fffd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"10:46:43 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謝謝主席是不是有請行政院卓院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢另外也請交通部陳部長麻煩請交通部長備詢"},{"start":37.27,"end":65.565,"text":"邱委員好 院長好 部長好我是立法院台日韓經貿合作跟安全合作促進會的會長我常常關注台韓台日跟台日韓這個三邊關係以及東北亞區域的經貿合作跟安全合作所以今天是交通主題我先針對觀光的部分請教一下這個院長跟部長台灣到日本觀光大概每年600萬"},{"start":67.403,"end":96.517,"text":"那日本到台灣觀光大概150萬是四分之一日本人口是台灣的五倍台灣到韓國觀光是150萬日本到南韓觀光韓國到台灣觀光是100萬但是韓國人口是台灣的兩倍所以我們應該提出東北亞特別是日韓觀光客倍增計畫那個部長你知道除了韓國除了首爾跟福城之外還有哪些城市你比較熟悉"},{"start":98.331,"end":122.264,"text":"韓國我比較不熟悉我只有首爾有去過 其他的地方我沒去過這個很重要 我們是命運共同體生活共同圈你飛機到首爾大概是兩個小時跟我從高雄到台北搭高鐵是一樣的還有大邱 光州 青州青州剛好也是在這次APEC主辦的區域主辦的城市所以應該提出日韓觀光會備增計畫"},{"start":125.236,"end":148.07,"text":"第一個日本人了解台灣的大概極限於大都市日本大阪福岡北海道很多縣市鳥取那些島根很多縣市的日本民眾並不了解台灣更何況他們了解台灣了解台北台南他們也不知道高雄也不知道"},{"start":149.286,"end":178.533,"text":"所以一定要提出一個縝密的計畫這計畫包括第一個航線要密集我們對日本航線大概很多縣市的主要機場我們都有飛這是供給帶動需求你有飛啊紅眼航班 縱使紅眼航班班班客滿我們年輕朋友都去那韓國除了飛首爾跟釜山之外還有濟州啊我們也飛青州也飛大邱"},{"start":180.506,"end":208.576,"text":"跟以前的光州世界的光州所以要讓這些二線二三線城市能夠瞭解台灣認識台灣他們才有興趣台灣來觀光嘛所以從這數據來看我們有很大的成長空間所以航線密集之外特別台灣飛韓國的航線二三線城市可能你要鼓勵這個國際航空要多飛不怕沒有需求就怕沒有供給另外宣傳要多於話"},{"start":210.481,"end":237.283,"text":"宣傳要多元化你要宣傳內容你要讓他們感到有興趣台灣是一個有趣的國家是一個友善的國家是一個好玩的國家是一個安全的國家宣傳內容不只有台北也要包括台南 台中當然也要包括高雄所以宣傳你在當地的主流媒體YouTube什麼都要去讓他們能夠從中了解"},{"start":238.615,"end":266.124,"text":"第三個 設施的友善日本大城市 小城市他們所有的官方標語跟交通的指標全部是四語共識英文 日文 中文跟韓文就像我們入境韓國他們機長在入境的大門這個航班從哪邊來就從台灣來 還有中華民國國旗代表友善"},{"start":268.075,"end":292.008,"text":"所以我是鼓勵啊 總部長你可以帶隊去日本 韓國來行銷台灣觀光以你的專業 以你的年輕 以你的高顏值絕對會引起這個當地民眾的認可所以我是覺得您可以"},{"start":293.567,"end":314.197,"text":"現在應該沒有什麼旅行限制可以的話你看每個月都去都沒關係今天去韓國 哪一天去日本去二三屆城市讓他們知道台灣有很美麗的風景 很友善的環境跟很帥氣的部長這部分我提出建議給交通部做參考"},{"start":316.013,"end":337.164,"text":"這個是很有價值因為台日韓確實是友好跟委員報告台灣的觀光客國外來的旅客第一名是日本韓國是第三名所以如果能夠倍增的話對於台灣的整體的國際觀光客來講是會增加非常多您剛剛在講的尤其是我們的交通的據點"},{"start":338.044,"end":365.219,"text":"要對他們友善這個我們目前也正在研究可不可以再增加除了英語之外可不可以再增加日語或者是韓語在一些比較日本觀光客跟韓國觀光客會來的地方來增加這個部分我們也在討論你去日本這個二三線城市啊他們的這個巴士他們的這個地鐵或者是他們這個電車都是全部都是韓文中文中文還分簡理式跟繁體式所以代表一個友善的環境友善的設施"},{"start":366.485,"end":389.719,"text":"當然我也討論到台日韓的經貿合作我今天看到一個韓國的產業商業部長他同時也是韓國首席對外談判代表他竟然提出希望跟台灣在談判過程中或者是半導體的合作"},{"start":390.953,"end":414.481,"text":"第一次聽到韓國的貿易談判代表提出這個論調而且主動提出要跟台灣合作我不曉得院長我們有沒有收到韓方相關的訊息合作的訊息或者如果有收到我們對他們的這種訴求我們的基本態度基本的立場為何到目前為止我們談判的整個談判團隊是針對跟美國做一對一的談判"},{"start":419.66,"end":447.69,"text":"這其他您說的倒沒有這樣的訊息不過我也注意到今天有這樣的一個消息台灣跟韓國之間這同是一個比較良性的競爭比較多了台灣跟日本之間是比較有相關性的互補性比較多所以我們跟韓國一直在高科技以及晶片的製造先進製程方面有一些競爭那台灣現在是領先蠻多的所以台灣是有能力不只韓國台灣是有能力在成為一個全世界的先進的"},{"start":448.157,"end":468.523,"text":"晶圓製造的一個聯盟的倡議我們曾經有這樣想過但是現在我們並沒有這樣說因為自從關稅談判之後變成是一對一的談判在進行台灣現在最主要是跟留在台灣做全世界的佈局那希望跟我們台灣內部的產業供應鏈跟世界可以合作的互補的這個產業國家多多的合作"},{"start":469.656,"end":496.888,"text":"因為今天是交通主題啊我繼續請教交通的議題就台灣的航站主要航站出入境最多的還是這個桃園機場桃園機場我一直期待說能夠最起碼有一個我們是AI大國半導體大國機場設備設施應該是應該是這個先進國家的行列但是我覺得跟雨田比較起來跟韓國的這個仁川這張宇我們是落後很多"},{"start":497.765,"end":515.99,"text":"我們手撿 安撿旅客出境的行李行李轉盤都要用人工搬運很難想像我們AI大國 半導體大國這種設施還是停留在古老很久以前的時代"},{"start":516.966,"end":542.41,"text":"所以未來是不是智慧化的這個航站的動線怎麼樣讓這個桃園的機場或者松山機場小港機場能夠包括這個行李拖運能夠有動線好的規劃智慧化通關等等流量預測行李這種拖運這些都是一個智慧型的航站必須要有條件但是你"},{"start":543.582,"end":566.863,"text":"這個部長跟院長你們到這個桃園機場去看好像動線混亂好像這個各單位的事權統合並沒有做得很好所以我們航站出境第一個要安全要便利要迅速最重要是安心讓旅客安心所以你這設施是要由航站由交通部去統合包括設施的改善我剛剛講種種動線規劃 自動通關等等"},{"start":570.862,"end":592.783,"text":"這個有沒有相關的智慧機場總體的這個計畫改善計畫我想請教一下部長最近去看過桃園三航廈新的即將在今年年底要啟用的他當然就是一個比較新的規劃跟設計因為整個桃園機場超過應該有40幾年以上的時間當初設計建造也許是先進"},{"start":593.533,"end":603.598,"text":"但是也不容許在當中做大規模的改變所以我們一直慢慢的維修但現在新的三行項我認為可以給國內一個比較全面而且嶄新的一個面貌"},{"start":604.369,"end":633.327,"text":"是 但是一航廈二航廈還是要慢慢改善特別我很難想像說這個出境的行李安檢還要人工搬運一般都自動化的所以這一點再請交通部持續提出改善計畫跟委員報告就是我們三航廈我們北郎天會先開始等整個航廈完成之後我們就會針對舊的航廈就委員剛剛所指示的就是智慧化的部分在舊的航廈看怎麼樣去做更新"},{"start":633.707,"end":658.909,"text":"我們就會提出一個新的計畫把舊的航廈因為你要等新的航廈完成之後把旅客引到那邊去我舊的航廈才有餘裕的空間可以做這方面的改善另外我們入境的旅客現在這個還是有首檢首尼西尼的安檢除了日本之外日本是非豬瘟的疫區但是日本沒有相關的措施他沒有入境旅客的首尼西尼的安檢台灣為什麼"},{"start":660.393,"end":679.677,"text":"所以這個安檢要投入2億每年還有人力 還有這個位置所以那個是由房間署在執行但是對入境的旅客會造成不便日本可以不用這個入境旅客的這個手裏心的安檢為什麼 因為他的處理系統做得很好"},{"start":682.657,"end":708.149,"text":"廚餘 家戶廚餘他們每一戶他們因為日本人對這個廚餘的處理他們相當具有他們的傳統他們有廚餘的乾燥機你廚餘之後你用乾燥機他們有些的縣市有補助你去購買乾燥機乾燥機之後你那個廚餘就去水化去水化之後你就變成一般的廢酒就可以去燒"},{"start":710.067,"end":729.185,"text":"那你沒有儲水的話你在廚餘你放進焚化爐對焚化爐是一個很大的損害所以我是希望說以前某些縣市都有針對家戶廚餘機的補助後來能不能做一個全國統一的政策來推動家戶都有一個廚餘的乾燥機把這個廚餘乾燥機納入防疫的體系裡面"},{"start":735.411,"end":758.409,"text":"這個院長是我們在這兩天正在針對未來廚餘政策做全面性的檢討我們也希望能夠盡快的來決定否則對養豬業者還有這些清運廚餘的業者還有這個事業的這個產生廚餘的事業單位都是很大的困擾我們會做最快的決定所以這個就是未來啊如果這廚餘的用去化能夠有所解決的話我們在選這個"},{"start":760.04,"end":782.763,"text":"去化中端去化的問題來引申出他如何來處理瀝乾以後去焚化是一條途徑直接送去堆肥做飼料也是一條途徑送去做生殖能發電也是一條途徑我們在尋這個途徑來做各種的考量兩個最主要方向第一個要減量減量就是說用廚餘的乾燥劑加護先做好減量"},{"start":783.644,"end":807.713,"text":"另外它的安全化 廚餘的安全化我上禮拜跟日本相關的主管部門大概變門會議開了三個半小時什麼針對廚餘讓它變成安全飼料叫ECOFITECOFIT他們日本有非常好的經驗怎麼樣把這廚餘變成一個ECOFIT而且它比原來的飼料成本還更低"},{"start":808.453,"end":837.117,"text":"我建議啊院長可以跟農業部部長請他們去做更多研究跟日本人學習怎麼樣透過政府的這個整個體系的這個建立起來把這個廚餘變成一個安全的ecofeed安全的飼料我想這個日本的經驗值得我們學習我們這個在半個月之內啊因為配合整個廚餘禁用的期間我們必須在半個月之內要做有所決定所以最近正積極的在"},{"start":838.284,"end":855.21,"text":"決定討論這個處於未來的處理政策我們那天三個半小時的討論他們充分的做簡報我也充分的提出很多問題我想有機會的話再跟院長再討論好的 謝謝高雄機場我一直希望說"},{"start":856.19,"end":881.883,"text":"現在能夠增加除了區域航線之外能夠成為一個這個東南亞的一個空運的hub一個中心所以你要增加美歐跟紐澳的這個行業也很重要我希望可以試看看那大概我已經質詢好多次都沒有一個回應回應是空洞沒有具體的做法所以我希望是不是"},{"start":883.483,"end":903.539,"text":"雖然有宵禁的問題但是運量絕對沒有問題所得也沒有問題因為你們告訴我說歐美航線規劃要考慮到人口規模我們人口絕對沒有問題規模絕對沒有問題嘛另外居民所得跟機貿觀光未來半導體的這個製造中心就在南台灣啊就在高雄台南啊 對不對"},{"start":904.594,"end":914.888,"text":"所以這部分應該可以先試看看你用Chad飛也可以你用旺基來飛也可以我們現在只有一架A330在飛"},{"start":917.13,"end":941.066,"text":"大型的飛機多集中在松山跟桃園這個對南台灣不太公平所以說你是不是可以用供給帶動需求的概念最起碼部長你可以責任國際航空公司去做規劃最好你先試看看嘛你連試都沒試就說是不行 這個我覺得我們積極來跟國際航空公司來溝通這個問題我們也希望南部的航班可以更多然後可以飛得"},{"start":947.947,"end":948.778,"text":"好谢谢秋泽"}]}},{"id":"165801","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165801","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6325889ad8f272b5fb6d3e4fdad1b6bcb583d2a9868c2e3ce237e37f99ea3b5ab36baeae8c032c655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"09:00:26 - 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行政院"},{"start":196.425,"end":223.416,"text":"11月14號的財化法現在復一的期間最後的期限是本週四本週四那我認為這三天當中立法院還是可以有些作為讓我們知道這部失速列車能不能停得下來再加上上週五又通過了如果依照這個財化法這裡就宣告捷運子先掰掰藍白要封殺高雄捷運子先因為在"},{"start":224.656,"end":232.023,"text":"明年所依據的去年通過的新版的財發法他必須維持一般型補助2,501億如果再維持2,900多億的計畫型補助再增加統籌分配稅款釋出4,615億那中央絕對破產"},{"start":240.851,"end":259.57,"text":"中央不只破產而且要違法舉債要違法來編列這個預算就絕對不行所以明年的計畫性補助只得降為308億維持住2500億的計畫性補助高雄今年就有497億的計畫性補助如果明年中央整個全國經費降為300多億的話我想"},{"start":262.213,"end":288.884,"text":"不只我剛講的捷運子線沒有了還有陸竹延伸線沒有了小港林園線沒有了鐵路立體化沒有了什麼都沒有了因為統籌分配稅款多增四千六百一十五億分配給二十二個縣市所以理論上每個縣市都會多了一兩百億 要數十億所以我們希望像高雄這樣子明年少掉的計劃型補助"},{"start":290.629,"end":307.47,"text":"就由地方來多負擔一些如果地方不負擔那就把工程的期限往後延這兩個只能選擇為一但我覺得都不是好的方法所以這邊 院長立法院還可以做什麼我在這邊也要呼籲想要在高雄參選市長國民黨的柯志恩委員"},{"start":308.462,"end":326.824,"text":"你知道你舉手的才化法會把高雄的這些建設毀掉嗎你知道你舉手的才化法會像卓院長講的原本五年變十年變十五年這些建設要延期嗎也希望國民黨想要參選的必須要為自己舉手負責第二個"},{"start":327.978,"end":350.791,"text":"市權沒有分配台中新北台北多拿那麼多經費每天都在被吵著說要不要補發現金的問題你要不要停止了雙北市長跟台中市長要不要停止這一場荒謬的才化法讓行政院可以真正為台灣區域均衡發展真正為所有的軌道建設來做一個佈局"},{"start":351.923,"end":372.961,"text":"我想在這邊呼籲在野黨的立法委員也要做這個事情也希望在我們跟地方這幾天繼續溝通之後定版的院版裁判法裡面的分配數字我們能夠詳細計算出來也請各位委員看一下到底對你各該縣市是不是一個更合理的市權跟稅款的分配當中"},{"start":373.681,"end":389.326,"text":"院長我昨天有很認真的看了一下我們行政院院版的新的財化法裡面把人口從45%降到30%把土地面積從10%升到30%把工業從業人口數升到20%把農林榆木產值等等"},{"start":389.986,"end":419.186,"text":"也加進來我想這個才是對全台灣均衡發展而且報告委員不只是這個數字的改變就人口而言65歲以上10歲以下的人口我們要加權記眾讓他能夠有多的一些分配額表示我們對老人家對小孩子兒少有更多的照顧而且土地也不是數字的調整農林漁牧他代表各種不同的土地利用價值我們有分別來計算所以這是一部合理全面穩定的院版的才化法"},{"start":420.428,"end":444.038,"text":"這樣子其實中央可以統籌分配到這些地方的計劃型補助才有寬裕的空間也就是說高雄的捷運子線還有目前高雄的路竹延伸線還有這個林園延伸線也會順利不會去拖到而且報告委員我來自台北市"},{"start":444.864,"end":452.693,"text":"不能台北市過去拿中央這麼多的補助做了這麼多的捷運現在換到中南部要做捷運了卻中央的補助減少了"},{"start":453.599,"end":478.729,"text":"這對中南部絕對不公平身為台北市民我敢這樣的負責所有的台北市民也不會希望這樣來對待全國的國人所以一定要公平的去分配我們也希望捷運是進步的象徵各個縣市該有我們就全力來協助謝謝院長另外還有這個我們捷運子縣其實通過醫學院那還有私運主場館那還有整個七所大學三個醫療中心"},{"start":479.789,"end":501.849,"text":"這個其實我不斷的在追蹤包含在委員會也跟陳部長追蹤那目前在下個月高雄市政府就可以把修正計畫再送到交通部我們還是不放棄我們希望相關的這些建設在細部的部分我們會繼續跟交通部跟所有鐵道局這邊來做一些努力那另外我也跟交通部爭取的就是"},{"start":504.071,"end":529.239,"text":"你知道嗎 2007年高鐵通車 2008年高雄捷運紅線通車之後其實我們在鐵路的部分我們有做一個連通道到高雄捷運但是很遺憾 2008年之後的中央政府就沒有把這個連通道做到高雄捷運那造成目前我們在爭取這個連通道的時候他必須"},{"start":530.615,"end":553.856,"text":"在既有的月台在高鐵繼續行駛的狀況下去做這個連通道短短的不到50米可能要耗費超過10億的預算工程越晚做工程進行期間來做確實會影響到這個工程造價的經費如同捷運黃線一開始評估1000多億到現在可能要2000多億"},{"start":555.217,"end":571.202,"text":"捷運子線也一樣高鐵聯通道也一樣但是我感謝院長感謝部長在高鐵聯通道這一方面先做了這個已經在做細部的設計那也同步可能明年初希望就可以動工這個請部長來回應一下"},{"start":572.182,"end":589.615,"text":"好 謝謝委員感謝委員一直在爭取確實在高鐵站裡面直接能夠透過連通道走到捷運那個對高雄市民來講是最方便的方法那過去沒有做那我們現在來做那高鐵公司也跟我們鐵道局在合作目前大概編列12億的預算"},{"start":590.976,"end":611.951,"text":"要來做這個連通道這個其實如果在08年中央政府就做的話我想這個應該是一兩億就可以解決了應該價格會差非常多所以先前的佈局非常的重要我們現在也是在為城市未來的發展來做準備那第二個我在這邊感謝卓院長新台17線原本我們估計"},{"start":613.223,"end":620.914,"text":"大概十幾億就可以完成那經過包含這個國防部的這些代差代件的計畫這些攻堅計畫等等"},{"start":624.387,"end":649.093,"text":"也感謝工程會在去年很關鍵的協調了國防部那也讓行政院批示了這個攻堅計畫目前的這個進度正在替國防部興建新的戰備跑道興建完成之後其實這整個新台時期進入難段的二期三期就會非常的快速有機會在明年可以順利完成"},{"start":649.693,"end":675.452,"text":"那也很抱歉這一條基線從過去可能評估在20億裡面的經費那不斷的努力現在居然要高達60幾億但是這一條對高雄對這個TSMC旁邊的園區來講太重要了目前台積電一個廠外面的翠華路在上下班時間已經塞到高雄市政府又拓寬那已經塞車了"},{"start":676.833,"end":694.731,"text":"所以新台17線未來還是扮演著北高雄產業園區包含橋樓科學園區到台積電男子科學園區等等的這些南北向的交通在這邊感謝卓院長去年快速的批示我們目前對於"},{"start":698.174,"end":720.005,"text":"國家重點領域校際研究園區我們還是希望可以有足夠的經費趕快佈局讓人才的部分也可以快速的進入高雄讓人才的部分也可以讓台積電有人才可以用讓高雄也變成這個高雄的二奈米重鎮我想這是指日可待"},{"start":721.025,"end":735.204,"text":"另外再一次跟院長請命之前院長帶著一架A330的華航飛機來到高雄再跟院長說明一下"},{"start":736.496,"end":761.603,"text":"我們還是希望新款的飛機A350以及波音787可以佈局高雄可以讓國航把這個A350跟B787波音787可以佈局高雄我知道他們在買飛機啦但是現在桃園現在松山就有的飛機是不是可以用適時的鼓勵佈局高雄過去"},{"start":762.697,"end":781.169,"text":"我們在高雄市爭取的時候就說高雄的跑道太短沒有辦法飛波音777沒有辦法飛A380這個是過去比較實行在飛歐美澳的航班但是現在主流的航班班機機型就像現在的汽車2000CC就很厲害了"},{"start":781.829,"end":807.084,"text":"不用開到3000CC像現在的飛機A350跟B787它就已經是飛跨州航線的主流了不用在B777 不用在A380而且沒有跑道的問題了第二個 宵禁的問題我也給院長參考你帶來的A330的航班其實不管是飛大阪或者是飛釜山其實也在高雄航空"},{"start":807.884,"end":821.174,"text":"高雄小港機場這邊帶來很好的成績載客都八成以上高雄確實就有這個運量那也希望院長跟部長這邊來趕快努力希望把A350B787調度到小港機場讓"},{"start":822.955,"end":837.247,"text":"美國這些可能台積電的客戶讓可能想要來台灣參加這些大型演唱會就在高雄市運主場館的這些朋友們可以直接搭乘跨州航班來到高雄機場"},{"start":838.288,"end":859.836,"text":"是 目前美國聯合航空從高雄飛日本轉東京轉東京 這個載客率都80%以上82% 82%載客率那未來華航跟長榮都會引進A350跟B787的新型的客機星宇也有其他321的客機那我再請部長來協調新的客機能不能也安排有"},{"start":860.736,"end":881.578,"text":"合理適當的班次能夠到高雄的小港機場部長有很多方式包含這些停機的這些鼓勵啦或者是這些國航其實配合一下國家發展也是非常有必要而且我也一再的證明高雄小港機場相關的航班運量是絕對沒有問題的"},{"start":882.799,"end":907.939,"text":"也希望部長這邊可以趕快跟華航這邊做一些指示那也做一些具體的評估我不要再等他2027年現在才2025年明年還有一整年的時間我們希望明年可能第二季第三季就有看到可能可以飛澳洲可能可以飛LA甚至可能可以飛舊金山西谷的這些航班也出現在高雄"},{"start":909.987,"end":932.102,"text":"謝謝委員 這個是高雄很多鄉親的期望那明年長榮跟華航就像院長所說的會補充新的機隊那星雲航空也有希望要到高雄去明年就會有些新的機隊會進來我們明年就會來安排一些去跟國際航空來溝通看可不可以安排一些新的大型的飛機到高雄去目前看起來運量是很夠的謝謝院長"},{"start":932.662,"end":940.849,"text":"那再次為高雄建設請命支持行政院版本的裁劃法 謝謝謝謝李委員 請委員支持 謝謝好 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院長早院長首先本席想請問您個人一個問題普發一萬元 院長您會去領這一萬塊普發一萬塊的錢嗎"},{"start":39.141,"end":68.358,"text":"因為我有帳戶 他是自動入款所以他已經撥進來了所以您有用這一萬元去沒有 我還沒有用他我想我會把它用到適當的地方去我認為國家或是其他人民會更需要的比如說我鼓勵大家現在都去買一些豬肉來吃也不錯本席也有看到院長您就是以行動去支持去吃豬肉新聞報導也說 院長您希望國人把這一萬塊用在國旅跟吃豬肉想必你也知道"},{"start":68.778,"end":78.236,"text":"我現在國旅的狀況不是很好所以才會做出這個呼籲可是政府不能只是叫人民去消費啊然後不去處理國旅本身存在的問題嘛"},{"start":79.045,"end":100.778,"text":"所以今天本先要和院長來討論我們國旅的問題我們先來看到今年前七個月台灣出境的旅遊人數高達1087萬人次年增10.5%而且是連續兩年都增加超過10%預估全年出國人數甚至可能會突破1850萬人次再創新高"},{"start":101.258,"end":115.289,"text":"可是反觀我們國內同期入境的旅客僅435萬人次那今年年增率不到10%之外呢今年交通部8月中的時候又再一次下修今年來台"},{"start":116.892,"end":131.748,"text":"旅客的預估量從原本的千萬人次變成了九百萬人次我們看到國人選擇出國玩卻很少觀光客來到台灣來旅遊國旅沒有被帶動而且還呈現明顯的流失院長您認為問題出在哪裡呢"},{"start":132.421,"end":157.122,"text":"當然我們全世界對台灣最著名的觀光景點就是我們太魯閣經過0403地震之後到現在還沒有全數恢復而且今年我們來了這麼多的颱風也讓很多人在安排的時候受到了一些影響另外就國內來看就國旅來看我們的交通還有我們的住宿都應該有一些政策的支持所以"},{"start":158.137,"end":180.425,"text":"交通部確實是提出了對一些國內住宿旅遊優惠的一些政策院長您提到泰魯閣像我們台灣不只泰魯閣這一個景點再來是我們看到過去在質詢的時候也有提到就是說因為一席的關係本席有看到日本2024年已經突破了3100萬旅客這個數字是超越"},{"start":180.885,"end":198.097,"text":"疫情之前的那鄰近的國家像是韓國還是馬來西亞呢他們也都回到了八九成反觀我們台灣去年2024年的下半年只有回到六成到七成嘛那針對我們目前國裡的情況那院長您剛剛也有提到旅宿的問題您認為是什麼問題呢"},{"start":200.491,"end":215.397,"text":"大家有分析說我們的國內的住宿是不是應該價格更合理還有我們交通網的服務是不是能夠更全面更周全那我認為這個都是交通部在明年提出的推升內需當中要增加觀光"},{"start":217.559,"end":237.016,"text":"這個國內旅遊部分的一個重要的政策從明年3月開始它就會有全面的比方說平日的住宿假日生日的補助等等都有相關的這個剛剛我已經在外面說明過院長其實從去年我們就可以看到2020年全國的出國人次約1684.9萬人次那外國旅客來台的人次它是785.7萬那兩者相差了895"},{"start":242.34,"end":261.88,"text":"將近八百九十九萬的人次那關於我們看產值的逆差金額那國人出國消費的總積額是一兆一百九十億那外國旅客來到台灣所創造的產值是三百二十六點七億那觀光的產值逆差就高達了六千九百二十二點三億那我們再來看到Yahoo有針對我國的"},{"start":263.742,"end":290.473,"text":"觀光的整個環境來進行一個調查那針對我們國內的旅遊有57.4%的民眾表示非常不滿意還有不滿意那相對的認為滿意還有還算滿意的只有24.9%其實近幾年來我們國人對台灣國旅的抱怨也已經不是新聞了那我們再看到一個數據這是觀光署做的調查報告"},{"start":293.148,"end":299.15,"text":"好 那我們可以看到觀光署的旅遊狀況調查的比例都高達99%院長您相信這個數字嗎滿意度99對 這是觀光署說出來的數據這不應該有這樣的結果我不會相信這樣的數字可能它的問題的設定是怎麼樣但是都不應該有這樣的數字"},{"start":313.945,"end":328.583,"text":"是 其實這個落差政府手上的評估數據與國人實際的感受是落差這麼大所以 鵝本席也在想這樣我們做出這個數字我們能夠期待政府能夠發現問題嗎那我們再來部長不好意思 我也跟您補充一下"},{"start":329.364,"end":342.865,"text":"您剛剛所說的這個國旅的逆差或者是人數的逆差就是出國的多那來國內玩的少這個不是今天才發生這個已經持續36年因為台灣是一個外貿型的國家當台灣的經濟的狀況好的時候"},{"start":344.928,"end":363.647,"text":"其實我們出國的人數會蠻多36年前到現在今年已經大概37年了這30幾年其實都是同樣的狀況那這幾年當然大家希望我們現在這個國外的旅客來台灣的人數希望能夠恢復到疫情之前也跟委員報告如果扣除大陸旅客來說的話"},{"start":366.71,"end":391.336,"text":"我們的水準已經幾乎快要跟疫情之前差不多了已經幾乎快要跟疫情之前差不多可是這兩年我們不斷的下修就是來台旅客的預估量跟委員報告這幾年疫情過後的這幾年其實每年都增長您應該也很清楚您在交委會去年比前年來台灣玩的人數增加了100多萬"},{"start":392.876,"end":418.03,"text":"那今年當然因為匯率的問題台灣的匯率相對高而且我們颱風今年也不少沒有增長的像去年這麼多一百多萬但今年至少也會增長的四五十萬人來台灣部長您提到說增長了一百多萬可是我們今年前三季一到九月的觀光逆差已經高到八百零五萬人次了我跟委員報告已經三十六年來都是這個樣子三十幾年來其實都是這個狀況院長我們繼續接著看我們最近看到"},{"start":419.452,"end":426.368,"text":"先請教院長和部長如果你們要出去玩你們會考量的因素有哪一些呢出國"},{"start":427.636,"end":456.072,"text":"在台國旅的話第一個當然是交通能夠方便住宿能夠非常舒服再來就是當地的景點它能夠有一個吸引力讓我去了解當地的歷史文化人物所以院長你認為是交通住宿跟景點的吸引力嗎那我們來看到一個新聞日前高雄有一所國小它公佈明年的畢業旅行的行程是日本的大阪無日遊那也是在家長會的熱心贊助下學生只要自費五千元您知道這個新聞嗎"},{"start":456.932,"end":465.946,"text":"有看過有看過這個新聞嗎那其實近幾年民眾的感受是出國玩比國旅還要便宜這是大家的共識"},{"start":466.766,"end":466.846,"text":"因為我們的"},{"start":493.762,"end":518.392,"text":"國內的旅遊都集中在假日所以非假日他們就在成本的計算來看就沒有辦法做很平均的分攤所以假日就會造成一無難求或者是價格會偏高曾經有一次我到南部去高速公路塞住我當場問部長說為什麼今天塞住他說那是連假的最後一天大家都要去南部做最後的一個假日的休息活動"},{"start":519.472,"end":535.599,"text":"就是集中在那幾點那平日都要他們負擔的成本比較大所以我們這裡推出了交通部推出了平日住宿優惠就希望引導一些國內的國人在平日雖然交通部提出了這個平日的住宿優惠可是民眾覺得說這個看得到用不到啊因為他們平日就是要上班啊"},{"start":536.912,"end":564.486,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實像勞動部勞動部最近也一直在針對大家的請假的狀況勞工的權益做保障我們也一直希望說國人如果你有特休可以在平日來休假的話大家要勇敢去休假那我們當然交通部這邊能夠做的是住宿的補助的方案希望鼓勵大家在平日去住其實大家用國外的旅宿跟台灣的旅宿有時候比較那不一定公平 為什麼"},{"start":565.199,"end":581.091,"text":"你出國可能會是玩五天六天七天那其中有五天是平日那個價格平均算起來當然不會像台灣只有在假日玩這麼貴那如果在台灣其實我自己觀察整個旅宿在平日的這個價格其實沒有"},{"start":581.511,"end":602.346,"text":"真的這麼高這是一方面那二方面跟委員報告剛剛院長有提到說我們之前去南部看到南部在塞車那以南部的觀光來講時常有媒體說國旅崩盤那也會講墾丁雪崩那剛好那一週我就自己往南到墾丁去"},{"start":603.827,"end":622.988,"text":"第一人很多第二我跟那個旅宿業的業者我不要講哪間飯店我跟那個總經理問問說你們這個月狀況怎麼樣他跟我說報告部長我們破了開幕以來十月份最高營收所以其實國旅當然我覺得要加油要做得更好"},{"start":623.889,"end":640.445,"text":"但是實際上如果你以旅次來看的話在國內旅遊的人其實也還不少現在的人跟過去可能不太一樣現在可能一個月出去出遊個兩次三次很平常過去可能要半年或者三個月才會出遊一次"},{"start":641.165,"end":660.073,"text":"其實國旅的狀況像我們剛剛在講的有很多人在抱怨說國旅有一點很討厭除了房價以外就是會塞車為什麼會塞車其實就是人很多才會塞車部長我們繼續還是回來看到旅書的部分Yahoo也有做一個調查有56.3%的網友就是投給住宿"},{"start":663.314,"end":685.366,"text":"高漲的住宿費是大家最不滿意的地方那天下雜誌也發現呢我國假日房價的漲幅高達38.4%那平均的價格也都是高於其他亞洲國家的那近日也有委員指出嘛在演唱會期間呢有業者 旅宿業者他一下子就把房價提升到平常房價的10倍啊面對委員的質詢呢"},{"start":686.647,"end":699.462,"text":"交通部則表示只要沒有高於核定的房價這一切都是市場的機制院長對於這樣兩手一擔的態度您能夠接受嗎本來這個很多就是市場機制只是它如果超乎常理"},{"start":701.018,"end":721.452,"text":"不正常的調整如果違反到我們公平交易的時候我們是有一些法源可以來依據的但現在我們必須要再進一步的了解到這個市場機制的競爭如果大家都這麼做那我們有沒有辦法跟業者來談一個自律的條約因為民眾每次就是有對房價的抱怨就是新聞出現那交通部和"},{"start":722.595,"end":740.934,"text":"業者的口徑都是一致的那表示沒有高於核定的房價都是市場機制嗎那部長院長你們知道這個機制是怎麼去這個核定房價制度是怎麼運作的嗎其實現在很多訂房的網站你只要很多人訂房價就會往上升"},{"start":742.162,"end":765.847,"text":"同一個房間 同一個房型如果沒有人訂他房價就往下不只這樣子現在我們叫Uber也是如此同一個時段很多人叫他就會往上升這個就是市場的機制市場其實事實上還有一個制度那旅宿業者他在申報合訂房價的時候他在申請設立的時候他是向當地的主管機關 管理局還是地方的縣市政府來申報並取得合訂"},{"start":766.627,"end":793.884,"text":"那經過核定之後呢它業者的收費不能超過這個核定的價格那問題是實務上都是業者報多少政府就核多少在中央欠缺地方政府核定的標準指引下這個核定根本是變成了被查那業者普遍呢他會把上限訂得非常高所以平時他在怎麼樣販售他的房間啊這個售價都是不會超過的那我們看到政府上民意"},{"start":794.424,"end":821.041,"text":"有規範嗎可是實際上就是政府放任院長我們要如何改善這個問題不好意思跟委員報告因為旅宿業是一個市場的機制如果你說政府硬要用一套機制下去壓抑房價的話我覺得對於整個市場的營運我認為會造成一些問題畢竟我們是一個自由經濟的市場"},{"start":822.102,"end":846.865,"text":"那旅宿我們當然幾個方面我們在想辦法就是包含說他們現在有缺工的問題那讓他們的成本很高那當然這個部分我們也盡量在努力那院長也已經在針對這個移工的部分中階技術人員怎麼樣去協助旅宿業讓他們可以降低他們的成本這個部分我們有在努力他的成本如果降我相信房價也應該會有所影響"},{"start":848.146,"end":877.337,"text":"那另外一個邏輯就是說大家都說呃旅宿業可能太貴於是住的人少但是我目前聽起來啦他們平日的價格其實沒有那麼貴所以我們會一直要鼓勵大家可不可以平日旅遊如果平日旅遊的話我相信不是講關於房價我們一直在講說這個市場機制嗎我們也要主要遵循這個自由市場的原則可是呢呃有看到日本的旅宿業他們的是有受到法規的約束他有防止烘台價格的"},{"start":877.597,"end":889.373,"text":"法規 雖然政府不能直接干預嘛 那剛才本席提到也像院長提出 我們是不是可以未來中央能不能訂定一個全國通用對房價的規範呢我說如果 那這個"},{"start":892.391,"end":912.828,"text":"狀況嚴重的不合理超乎大家可以合理接受的範圍也對我們的公平交易的相關法則有所抵觸那我們應該事先跟業界跟產業界或是工會來談要不要有一個自律內部要有一個自律那我們才跟他談說這個自律是要大家共同遵守那我們才可以說那法律上要不要進一步來做"},{"start":913.228,"end":936.454,"text":"其實用法律去限定一個價格這到底不是自由市場的一個必要的機制但是如果他嚴重影響到人員的選擇的話他的價格哄抬已經到了10倍這已經是太誇張了所以部長我們可以怎麼樣來約束業者如果太不合理的哄抬你像高雄最近比較夯很多人去住飯店有人反應這樣他們的那個觀光局他們就會去稽查"},{"start":937.254,"end":959.765,"text":"地方政府其實都有在做稽查的動作就是說如果他抬高到不合理的狀況我相信地方政府也會來做處理我剛剛在建議的就是說我們有沒有可能中央有一個比較大規模的指引這個部分我們來跟業者也一起來討論因為畢竟這個是私人的財產私人的商業行為我們跟工會來做討論"},{"start":960.985,"end":987.796,"text":"那我們也跟各個地方政府的觀光的主管機關我們一起來討論有沒有可能我們做出一個更合理的溝通因為飯店 旅宿啦再怎麼好的旅宿都可能會有說五星級也有可能六星級 七星級就是跟地方的觀旅局還有跟地方的業者在持續的溝通我會希望房價影響我們台灣的觀光形象那院長我們再來看除了演唱會房價烘台的問題我們再來看到另外一個爭議"},{"start":989.229,"end":1007.336,"text":"那觀光署配合環境部的要求是今年元旦起就要求旅出業者不則再提供一次性的備品結果政策一上路問題就立刻發生了在光復廉價期間竟然有民眾接獲業者旅館業者的通知因應禁止提供一次性的備品大家連大碼錢都不提供了引發民怨"},{"start":1007.936,"end":1022.605,"text":"事實上在這個政策實行之前大家都擔憂國旅復甦的期間貿然禁止使用備品恐怕會引發各種的問題政策上路後我們有看到業者不僅另外販售備品"},{"start":1024.096,"end":1045.006,"text":"也同樣的就是廉價期間連大毛巾都不提供了嘛那讓民眾花同樣的錢就是獲得打折過後的服務還有更差的體驗啊對時光光屬束手無策任由業者自行解讀還有操作院長您怎麼看待這個現象我認為這個基於環保的理念做這樣的一個改變但是"},{"start":1045.862,"end":1065.937,"text":"一般的飯店他都會在固定的櫃台或是固定的地方當民眾有一次需要的時候基本的用品他還是會提供的但如果說有業者用這樣的方式把劣質的商品一次賣680元他這次是斷自己的後路以後沒有人會去而已啊我想這個是不聰明的一個做法"},{"start":1066.417,"end":1084.896,"text":"環境部規定旅宿業者就是不得提供一次性的備品嗎會有環保的理念還有考量嗎那我們看看別的國家的做法那日本多數的飯店會把備品放在大廳供住客自由取用該節省的節省那也不會縮減他們的服務品質那相較之下台灣的備品卻變成還要另外"},{"start":1085.596,"end":1088.137,"text":"我認為在這個競爭這麼激烈的這個商場的模式商業的模式"},{"start":1115.894,"end":1128.05,"text":"選擇這樣的方式的業者確實不聰明我認為這是極少數但是我也希望交通部能夠跟地方的相關單位去看一下如果真的有這樣在提供的話第一個要勸解要阻止再來就是當"},{"start":1129.441,"end":1154.504,"text":"這個被揭露出來之後這家飯店或者旅宿業他的信譽會掃地真的是對他來講是我們很難確保其他的業者不會跟進這樣子的做法所以我們希望這成為一個就是住宿的亂象之前那部長這邊也請就是觀光署然後還有還是我們地方政府的觀旅局一起和業者溝通做調整然後也避免這樣子的情況在下一次的廉價又再一次發生"},{"start":1154.724,"end":1179.577,"text":"向委員報告如果有聽到類似這樣子的狀況我們其實都會通報到地方的觀光的主管單位地方政府請地方政府去做稽查像您剛剛所提到的不提供大毛巾或者是毛巾這件事情那個時候是在網路上的匿名的一個說法然後就變成媒體的報導那我們也馬上請雲林縣政府趕快去做稽查有沒有這麼一回事"},{"start":1180.517,"end":1205.203,"text":"查過之後其實沒有這麼一回事委員在講的我認為很合理就是說我們不主動提供飯店不主動提供但是就像日本的那種方式在旁邊我不主動放在你房間但如果你有需要的話可以免費索取的一些基本的備品是不是可以做這樣子的溝通這方面我請觀光署這邊一起來努力跟業者也好 跟地方政府也好我們一起來努力做這件事情"},{"start":1205.543,"end":1231.386,"text":"好 謝謝部長那我們在接下來看到院長 不管是房價還是飯店他的房間 他的公共空間他的清潔還是隔音設備或是位於接待流程訂房資訊的透明度還有停車接駁安排都未必能夠與他的價格匹配政府長期以來補助旅宿業者結果很多業者他追求的是補助最大化不是品質的最大化"},{"start":1231.886,"end":1258.813,"text":"那所謂的旅宿評鑑多數都只是做表面走一個流程無助於品質的提升那政府每年還要振興國旅那發補助一次又一次那補助變成業者的長期補貼反而養成業者對政府的依賴那補助本來就是要改善幫助業者他們改善他們的體質不是撐到下一波的補助嘛那部長您認為觀光部長觀光署目前有沒有提出"},{"start":1259.363,"end":1278.586,"text":"一個計畫要來重新檢討旅宿的評鑑標準評鑑的標準我一直認為整體的觀光的KPI應該要重新去設定什麼時候設定這個部分我們已經都在開會在討論當中包含對於旅宿的也好或者是說對於整體的國家的觀光的品質的那個KPI"},{"start":1279.431,"end":1297.773,"text":"我們應該要重新來討論因為現在已經在不同的時代亞洲各國也好或者是觀光比較盛行的國家他們對於整個觀光的整體的KPI的設定都不一樣那包含委員在講的這個旅宿我們來加強就是說針對他的一些KPI針對他的要求我們來做不一樣的設定"},{"start":1298.454,"end":1327.749,"text":"那請快有討論出一個結果那院長您認為這個旅宿的評鑑標準他是不是應該要和品質綁在一起未來就是要求業者的品質有到達我們才給予補助我希望交通部能夠檢討剛剛說的這個評鑑的內容那針對有在進步的我們給予多一點的鼓勵但是他如果停滯不前的我們有多一點的輔導給他那對於那些服務不好的我想透過市場的機制在這麼競爭的市場上面他會自己感受到壓力"},{"start":1328.376,"end":1352.371,"text":"所以我們希望真的院長你有提到嗎總統有提到戴總統有提到我們要以觀光立國那我們希望可以就是真的檢討改革我國的房價制度然後也同時來訂定一個最低的標準讓消費者也可以掌握就是平台抽成的訊息這樣子國有率才真的可以達到物有所值讓民眾願意來支持國有率院長可以嗎"},{"start":1353.087,"end":1362.344,"text":"對 我們現在全力在推動國旅我剛剛說過現在交通部觀光署在明年會推出的平日住宿的優惠光是這一項就編了有16億"},{"start":1363.952,"end":1388.553,"text":"再加上生日住宿也有優惠生日住宿也有優惠也希望各縣市都能夠受惠院長我們來看到地方的問題桃園的北橫國家風景區從最初的核定規劃到行政院拍板還有相關預算的分配定級資源的盤點到底是停在哪個環節導致這個進度停滯不前部長 院長"},{"start":1390.363,"end":1413.999,"text":"跟委員報告這個我們在今年的六月我們有開過會議了我們的委員會議今年有開過研商會議那不過這個還是要經過一個程序因為這個應該是算是在原民的領域啦所以我們需要原民部落的同意地方政府就多次提出中央核定後但是後續的跨部會的協調是不足的而且這個審查中期冗長"},{"start":1415.2,"end":1422.974,"text":"而且審查的機制缺乏明確的時程表那目前政府跨區的國家風景區模式人事觀光署主責部長沒有錯吧"},{"start":1424.662,"end":1449.848,"text":"目前這個跨區國家的跨區風景區是觀光署在註冊可是土地的管理還有林地的申請交通動線部落法規自然保護區的接線認定都牽涉到不同部會部長您認為所以沒有院長的支持是很支持是很難繼續推動下去的沒有錯那院長您對於這個國家風景區的成立您的態度是北橫國家風景區的成立"},{"start":1450.984,"end":1469.956,"text":"他的條件因為現在北橫我們知道他的這個公路的系統並不是完全非常的穩定所以交通部是先做了很多在公路邊坡防災的改善計畫我覺得這個要先做但同時國家風景區如果要進一步的推動的話那同時可以並進"},{"start":1470.656,"end":1485.803,"text":"本席知道交通部一直以來對於我們桃園復興區的公路系統一直都是非常的支持不管是邊坡還是道路的優化改善本席也要讓院長知道北橫沿線過去的觀光成果其實十分的耀眼可是現在面臨新的挑戰"},{"start":1487.083,"end":1512.869,"text":"更多了 然後它的景點分布也是廣的交通壓力高 在欠缺完整的規劃下地方的經濟沒有辦法被串聯起來而我們桃園復興區的旅宿還有餐飲 伴手禮 農特產品也都欠缺國家級的品牌院長 我們都尊重部落相信這個立場你我是一致的嘛那目前桃園復興區的範圍就有六成的部落他表示贊成那本席認為中央不應該因為他沒有打到百分之百就把這個案子暫時的擱著"},{"start":1514.329,"end":1528.25,"text":"那既然中央同意北橫有成立的空間那院長是不是可以來由行政院主導呢或是要求原民會主政那負責協調離奇現在的法律衝突"},{"start":1529.526,"end":1549.293,"text":"我是建議交通部在現在對公路系統包括它的隧道、橋樑的工程在改善的過程當中也透過跟園民會一起對部落的同意權我們能進一步當然能夠取得最大的共識將來再執行起來這個阻力困難會越少剛剛我們現在還要做道路的改善同時來併進"},{"start":1550.433,"end":1578.947,"text":"我們先不討論道路的部分因為今年七月的時候桃園市政府他就有提出了地方部落的統一辦法還有資源共同管理辦法這兩法之間是存在著衝突地方沒有辦法治理沒有辦法自行處理嘛需要中央的法治協助那中央總不能要地方一直解決問題然後不協助理清難道我們要一直拖下去嗎根委員報告目前市政府那邊確實有針對這個原民組織跟原民部落的這個同意有做了一定的進度"},{"start":1579.367,"end":1597.772,"text":"目前還有28個原民部落目前還沒有這樣子的組織會議我們在等桃園的進度委員剛剛有講說有兩個法在進行的我相信進度會有市長您提到在等桃園可是桃園也在等中央的協助因為觀光署就有提出在諮詢同意的過程中因為"},{"start":1598.952,"end":1609.95,"text":"過程它冗長又困難產生摯愛所以特別請中央來協助那今天本席向院長提出嘛那是不是可以由原民會作為主責單位呢由原民會去溝通協調"},{"start":1611.318,"end":1636.594,"text":"原民會跟地方政府都要來跟地方的部落來進行這樣的溝通都必要的交通部因為是觀光主管部會而且工程的部分也在進行我想有他們來協同行政院能不能夠協助來召開協調會議我們這邊主動來找原民會大家一起來溝通看怎麼樣跟桃園市政府我們三方一起來做溝通什麼時候會有溝通的結果"},{"start":1637.683,"end":1665.286,"text":"您質詢完畢之後我等一下就去交代然後請他們去安排會議好不好是 那院長那本席也要讓您知道原民朋友並不是反對北橫國家風景區的成立只是他們不信任政府因為過去和政府的溝通對話都是零碎的有些部落可能他們這一輩子都沒有和政府有一個完整的對話和溝通那他們也會擔心就是這個風景區的成立那如何來管理狩獵怎麼來管水那資源要如何分配"},{"start":1665.766,"end":1688.473,"text":"那這些疑慮沒有被回應部落當然不會點頭贊成所以院長可不可以明確地要求原民會不要把自己定位成一個審查單位就只是審查同意和不同意而是要明確地把自己當作一個協商的設計者在北橫先建立一個示範的治理模式讓部落一剛開始就可以做上會議直接共同治理院長您認為呢"},{"start":1689.164,"end":1715.459,"text":"原民會當然不是也不會是一個高高在上的審查單位他跟所有的族群各部落應該是融合成為一片替他們服務所以做了很多的地方的服務站等等都是在服務鄉親的但是很多部分也要跟地方政府來配合很多的工作才執行的下去讓我會請原民部原民會在這個工作上跟交通部一起來努力也加入地方政府跟原民的部落多多的來做溝通爭取他們的同意"},{"start":1715.865,"end":1740.971,"text":"是 那院長剛才本席也有提到嘛目前部落是有六成部落他是同意的那現在推動的方式只要不是全部同意他就卡住了那院長您認不認同就是我們先讓願意加入的部落先串聯起來然後先納入然後讓他們推動治理那沒有同意還沒有同意的部落那我們也保留他未來可以加入的權利那院長您行政院是否認同這樣子分階段分區納入的思維呢"},{"start":1741.482,"end":1768.445,"text":"第一個還是要依照現在原民基本法相關的內容來看他一定要達到一定的程度才能夠來往前走所以法律的規定怎麼樣我會請交通部跟原民會共同跟地方政府來做更多的還是要請院長就是來協助啊因為如果沒有院長的協助真的是很難請部長能夠直接處理您對於這個北橫國家風景區的成立態度是能夠"},{"start":1770.168,"end":1796.797,"text":"對於推升內需所需要的觀光產業觀光事業多增加景點這個當然也是交通部觀光署在他的整套計畫當中重要的一環所以我們不會只有北回之巔跟微笑南彎我們全國各地都會找更多的景點讓國際的觀光客知道台灣是一個美麗好玩的地方謝謝院長也請院長在折承圓明會那再來我們看到台灣公車客運的駕駛荒院長這個是國安等級的問題嗎您認為"},{"start":1798.328,"end":1800.353,"text":"所以我們現在希望能夠引進更多的"},{"start":1801.62,"end":1830.928,"text":"也協助訓練更多的駕駛能夠來投入駕駛的工作本席在地方聽到的這個問題沒有被解決是持續擴大目前缺700位駕駛全國公路的運輸市區的客運也缺1400位合計超過2100位過去本席就有在委員會問過交通部跟勞動部的口徑都是一致的有看到問題也試著解決現在目前這個問題解決到哪裡了交通部有"},{"start":1847.327,"end":1847.347,"text":"好 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謝謝韓院長 請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":22.938,"end":50.245,"text":"村長 市長好去年到今年南白國會多數強行通過了財化法兩次修正其實兩次的修正有相當多的問題對於國家財政跟地方的發展都有相當多問題但我特別關切的是這個過程中我們看到台北增加了400多億而高雄最後失之損失了將近200億這讓南北失衡更加嚴重我認為這是一個重北輕南的財化法"},{"start":51.145,"end":70.086,"text":"院長同意這樣的看法嗎他原始的計算公式這個新版就是去年通過的這個新版這計算公式非常的簡化將人口土地面積這樣就很簡化的數字像現在院版的才化法人口有人口結構老年多的年輕人小孩多的不會增加"},{"start":70.526,"end":93.914,"text":"台北拿到了400多億全台灣最多高雄損失了將近200億而裡面全部用整個營業這些的來加重照剛剛那個算起來就像營業額加算起來工廠可能是在中南部在高雄但是他的計算是在台北而且又加重了這樣的權重院長認不認同我的看法這是一個重北輕難的一個才化法南白國會多數通過的"},{"start":94.853,"end":118.483,"text":"過去十幾年來我們一直在平衡這個作用但是過去十幾年以前這個南北這種北清南的狀況是愈發的嚴重那最近幾年我們一直在調整那這個才化法你認為呢有沒有確實加重了這樣的問題他特別對特定幾個縣市幾個城市特別的優惠對北部的特別的好對南部的特別不好嘛這個感受的密碎對中部的也不好"},{"start":118.963,"end":132.078,"text":"對 中部也不好雲林苗栗也不好對啊 所以中南部都不好嘛台北拿到400多億富者越富 貧者越貧這對台灣絕對是一個負面的影響所以我支持院版的才華法我也希望盡快來審議"},{"start":133.86,"end":151.223,"text":"不容易啦 因為才會把大家都想要分到更多的錢但是很困難所以才二十幾年沒辦法修嘛那也很謝謝行政院終於也提出來了那我提出來之後也希望朝野競速來支持啦不要讓縱北 青南加大南北差距加大這對台灣絕對長遠是個錯誤的方向是是 謝謝行委員支持"},{"start":151.764,"end":155.667,"text":"我們現在幾乎有四個版本一個是已經被廢棄不用的才化法但是今年的總預算是依照這個舊版編的那明年編的總預算是依照"},{"start":181.884,"end":205.706,"text":"去年通過的新版的裁判法那現在又有上個禮拜通過的11月14號通過一個再修版的裁判法所以一共有三個裁判法現在院版再提出一個院版的裁判法那現在我們希望院版的裁判法是經過跟地方六次以上的溝通而且裡面的計算公式最合理應該可以取得最大的共識能夠放到大院裡面來討論"},{"start":206.807,"end":231.741,"text":"至少能夠有個橫平的討論的機會那如果院版的裁判法現在看來是民眾黨並不支持的國民黨內部大概意見分歧啦因為中南部的立委們大概也面對相當大的壓力那如果院版的裁判法沒有得到支持的話那對於立法院通過的這個裁判法那院長會採取復議或者採取不附屬的方式處理嗎那現在對於今年11月14號通過的這個我們所謂再修版的裁判法我說過"},{"start":232.481,"end":245.519,"text":"因為他會大幅的提升整個政府的舉債這個舉債達到5600億已經超過我們公債法的上限所以我不能編 行政院不能編編出來就是一個違法的預算"},{"start":246.522,"end":275.412,"text":"所以我們希望明年的總預算已經依照新版的裁判法在編了如果現在變動那對整個施政的穩定性所以對剛剛通過立法院的這個裁判法的部分行政院是採取它是無法運作的我們希望如果這個時候有機會來看院版的裁判法行政院版的裁判法用審計院版裁判法的這個動作讓所有的現在的裁判法討論到現在停止讓院版裁判法變成唯一可行"},{"start":275.672,"end":301.712,"text":"所以院長的想法是暫時先不處理立法院通過的這個新的裁判法而先處理院版的裁判法如果朝野達成共識的話那就能夠解決所有裁判法的問題了這是最完美的一個方案是嗎這是解決問題的開始而已這應該是最好的方式我們期待立法院盡速來審議審議完成之後重新建構這個裁判法之後來解決掉這一年多來裁判法的紛爭上個禮拜五我得到的訊息是這個樣子"},{"start":302.572,"end":328.487,"text":"我們也期待這應該是最好的方法也是減少政治紛爭的方法也是減少財政紛爭的一個方法再來我想請教一下其實發電的部分南電北送這是一個常態高雄的發電量是全台第一台北沒有電廠也不發電的前陣子還在計較台北市還在計較電要2億的一個水廠的一些電價的問題我認為非常的不公平"},{"start":329.207,"end":345.63,"text":"中南部長期的負擔北部的用電南電北送這樣的狀態我們認為這個非常的不公平對於發電者不斷的在發電用電者反倒這個不發電以外同時還遭傷癮之還吸引更多人口的居住這個其實是不公平的"},{"start":346.47,"end":373.466,"text":"我反映過了 包括南電北送造成了217億的虧損217億的虧損 這個都應該要面對所以我主張差別電價對於有發電的縣市給予比較優惠的一些價格對於不發電的縣市給予不同的一個價格能夠來改善電廠設置的問題同時也改善電力輸送所造成的耗損的一些問題院長同意這樣看法嗎 差別電價"},{"start":374.767,"end":390.801,"text":"這個建議當然會改變影響到整個台電成本的計算那我們認為現在除了發展多元的綠能之外能夠在合理可以設置的電廠我們能夠在普遍的把它按照工程的預定計畫來設計出來之後"},{"start":392.583,"end":411.516,"text":"整個南電北送 南北差別減少問題在於是每個人都要用電但是沒有人想發電啊所以說有差別電這樣的發生的時候才能讓更多縣市去認真面對這個問題你不能只要求用電而不發電桃園三街大堂的這個接收站自來之後觀塘那整個發電就會更大起來"},{"start":412.116,"end":436.549,"text":"那我們在市階之後整個新的電廠也會隨時我們會增加北部中部的發電量我知道這是一個不容易的問題但是也唯有討論差別電價的問題的時候才能讓更多的縣市認真去面對電力的問題不然大家都只想用電而不願意發電這對於在願意發電的城市來說是非常的不公平我說這個會改變到台電的成本的計算台電應該去考慮這個事情"},{"start":437.99,"end":457.152,"text":"我是說在這個同時我們增加北部地區的這個發電的設備發電廠讓他能夠更新提升效能院長能不能認真的思考演繹這個問題差別電價但作為有顯明結果是確實並不可但是我認為政府要認真去思考討論這個問題的時候才能夠讓更多的國人正視這個問題"},{"start":458.473,"end":483.605,"text":"正式的環境正義發電的正義的問題正是南電北送造成的耗損虧損讓政府損失了217億的問題正是南部發電污染嚴重而北部用電卻占盡了很多便宜才化法還可以分到更多的錢這樣的問題才能夠被凸顯出來我希望院長正視這個問題好嗎我會請經濟部來台電一個月內研議好不好研議結果當然有可能是還要在"},{"start":485.666,"end":510.161,"text":"但是至少願意思考這個問題我認為就是在面對問題的開始一個月內對於差別廉價提出行政院的一些研議方案好 謝謝再來我想請教一下這也是一個重大問題小旭城說鄭麗文的兩岸路線是一國兩區的路線院長同意這樣的說法嗎一國兩區你同意嗎中華民國只有太平洋嘛"},{"start":511.903,"end":538.718,"text":"我的答案很簡單院長現在如果講一國兩區這個一國會是哪一國我們在這裡講當然是講中華民國但是中共講的覺得是中華人民共和國現在很多的人會被誤導認知的一國只有中華人民共和國所以當現在這個時間點在講述一國兩區的時候很容易就是對應了中共的說法就是陷入到了中華人民共和國而台灣變成了其中的一個區"},{"start":540.159,"end":568.763,"text":"這會是一個統戰的陷阱這會是一個認知作戰這會是一個誤導全世界認為台灣接受這樣的說法所以我們認為台灣的任何一個政黨的領袖講出這樣的話其實都並不恰當的院長同意這樣的看法嗎沒有錯我覺得還是剛剛那句話中華民國就是台澎金嘛我們現在在這裡有效的行使我們的民主政治在這裡台澎金嘛至於大陸那個土地那是中華人民共和國所有"},{"start":569.5,"end":593.804,"text":"他的治權他的統治權都在那裡現在沒有人會相信台灣有能力去直接再繼續統治這個中共的這個土地沒有人會相信全世界沒有人會相信所以現在講的一國兩區最後結果就是台灣中華民國被消滅中華民國台灣被消滅掉所以我們認為國內的各政黨領袖應該要很清楚認知應該站在台灣這一邊而不是站在中共那一邊"},{"start":594.304,"end":608.3,"text":"我們認為這個才對得起所有台灣人民院長應該同意這樣的看法吧完全同意而且中華民國台灣他就是一個完完全全的主權獨立的國家守護中華民國守護台灣是我們這一代台灣人民很重要的一個責任跟使命"},{"start":609.802,"end":624.798,"text":"謝謝再來我請教一下南台灣的部分現在一個小港機場很好用但是我們看到東京有成天雨田首爾有人川金埔上海紅橋浦東都有很多的包括北台灣也有松山跟桃園機場"},{"start":625.899,"end":644.189,"text":"南台灣能不能設立一個24小時起降的機場不管是他在南興在彌陀或在哪個地方都可以讓南台灣有另外一個24小時的起降機場這個能不能啟動開始研議研議到完成還要相當長的時間能不能啟動這樣的研議讓南台灣有一個24小時起降的機場"},{"start":644.929,"end":667.063,"text":"我知道委員一直很關切在南台灣高雄有一個24小時不受航管限制的一個機場那我們也在做這樣的思考所以我也去看過所謂南新計畫等等那現在交通部也應該在有這樣的思考但是我是覺得在思考的過程當中我們首先還是把小港機場的新航廈能夠把它拓展起來"},{"start":667.503,"end":690.801,"text":"因為這兩個不衝突 新航廈我們繼續再做但是要啟動一個20小時新的海上機場需要相當長的時間那我認為應該要啟動了開始啟動相關的評估規劃因為它需要時間它要經過選址 經過環評經過各種的海上的評估經過空域的協調等等很多工作我希望能不能在今年開始正式來啟動這樣一個規劃"},{"start":692.682,"end":719.352,"text":"正式啟動規劃我們已經在啟動為了因應將來南部的大的整個科技的發展24小時的貨運因為南台灣不只是高雄包括台南的包括屏東的半導體產業也都在發展所以未來一個24小時的貨運等等是很重要所以我現在在第一點的選擇工程的這個技術方面交通部都在規劃所以院長我們今年開始正式啟動這樣24小時啟動的開始評估跟思考"},{"start":720.317,"end":721.718,"text":"院長 部長可不可以一個月的時間給我"},{"start":738.412,"end":763.906,"text":"整體的規劃評估的時程啦好不好就是包括評估這個至少我們可以預估大概是什麼時候因為包括新航廈的完成之後的甚至於未來長遠的包括高雄南台灣的整個發展狀況也給我們一個評估的狀況好不好就是說一個月的時間評估出來如果要朝這樣這樣的話大概多久可以選址完成大概多久可能要開始思考好不好一個月的時間我們一個月的時間來跟委員做報告給我一個書面報告好嗎"},{"start":764.554,"end":789.574,"text":"好 謝謝那再來我還是要請院長跟部長能夠持續支持高雄的捷運路網台北發展的很快計畫型補助款也都補助下去了結果現在因為財務法的關係現在財源受到影響高雄在明年減少了103億的本來可能可以補助的現在少掉了所以現在我們很多的捷運的路線的經費會受到影響騎乘也可能受到影響"},{"start":790.094,"end":810.041,"text":"甚至於未來要新建的此縣會受到影響不只高雄台南台中都一樣所以能不能請院長跟部長盡力的來支持中南部的軌道運輸捷運輸不要受到影響台北已經新建完成了不受太大的影響而高雄台南台中受到很大影響能不能請部長院長來支持"},{"start":811.854,"end":835.025,"text":"台北包括新北早期建了很多的捷運都用中央跟地方的合作中央補助很多錢那現在不只高雄中南部包括桃園要開始興建更多的捷運但現在的財化法新版的確實把中央的錢拿去平均都分給地方去了那中央已經沒有錢再幫助這些現在要興建新辦捷運的這些城市了"},{"start":835.641,"end":854.915,"text":"這形成一種不公平的競爭這非常的不公平對啊所以我常常說先做的已經早享受了現在做的所以東德所以台北還分到最多的錢台北的捷運還都做好了所以等於是附上加附所以我們希望委員大院能夠支持院版的裁判法我們希望這要重視區域間的侵犯法我們保留計畫性補助"},{"start":855.976,"end":876.659,"text":"但是我們計劃型補助一般型補助加個統籌分配稅款對各縣市來講都會比今年還高還是要請院長跟部長繼續支持高雄的捷運的入網的興建好嗎好不好是是好再來我請教一下國道7號謝謝院長跟部長支持那現在因為他到了仁武之後在往北的部分一樣面臨到了"},{"start":877.299,"end":893.086,"text":"一樣交通上的瓶頸因為國一常常現在塞得很嚴重所以國七找到可能的路線往北繼續延伸不管是高速公路或者是快速道路都是好的方案能夠紓解台北台南高雄台南之間的交通的嚴重的擁捨狀況這個詞可以請也啟動相關的規劃好嗎院長"},{"start":899.814,"end":926.514,"text":"這個部分委員照您的指示我們會來啟動規劃那這個部分我們也可能要跟地方政府來一起做溝通我知道你們有規劃一個叫高科技的一個線路的就因為台南高雄有高科技的一些發展我希望這個盡快來啟動國一高架難度比較高但是至少國七往北延伸這一塊做得到的話讓更多的南北向台六十一國一然後國七國三能夠讓南北向更加的便利"},{"start":930.032,"end":930.052,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"165805","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165805","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6325889ad8f272b55b91be57e7b54086b583d2a9868c2e3c9d1dd4df9352bd770aec3227c6a1e6575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"10:19:28 - 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謝謝韓院長 一樣麻煩邀請我們卓院長還有我們的陳世凱部長麻煩再請卓院長 交通部長備詢"},{"start":27.475,"end":53.726,"text":"廖文豪 院長好 部長好一開始還是先跟院長跟部長討論一下大眾運輸的一個問題 捷運的問題我們汐止 我的選區在新北的汐止汐止的捷運包括現在建設中跟規劃中原本大概分成兩個部分一個就是過去大家說的汐止民生線從汐止區公所到台北市的大稻埕過去是一條線另外一條線就是基隆捷運但是在汐止民生線"},{"start":54.706,"end":72.761,"text":"在過去可能因為經過一段討論我們把它拆成兩個部分就是汐止區公所到東湖捷運站這邊拆開來這邊已經先做了已經規劃工程在施作當中了另外的東湖站到大稻埕這個部分目前正在送綜合規劃報告審議當中"},{"start":74.542,"end":103.459,"text":"那包括基隆捷運現在在這個基本設計當中綜合國家已經通過了現在在基本審議那我現在討論一下過去大家說的不論是叫汐止民生線還是民生汐止線那代表的意義應該都是一樣的就是東湖到大稻埕的這一段因為現在汐止區公所您可以看到大概就是SB15到SB10它其實是一個只有六站的一個捷運系統那它只能接到文湖線的東湖站那包括它的轉程的距離大概"},{"start":104.339,"end":120.397,"text":"達到了200公尺那當然轉成沒有那麼的便利那當然原本的規劃就是貫穿台北市那包括了淡水新一線的一個轉成環狀線的轉成新盧線的轉成然後在中山國中也有文湖線的轉成那整條線的效益才能夠把它彰顯出來"},{"start":121.918,"end":144.24,"text":"目前只通到東湖應該可以很明確的感受出來它的效益可能就沒有辦法的把它極致的來把它發揮我就想我們院長這邊是不是我知道這條線的延伸可能還牽扯到基隆捷運機場的一些問題有一些部分還需要跨線的整合是不是能夠請院長如果說您認為一條線只到東湖站這邊的效益"},{"start":144.66,"end":156.671,"text":"它的投資效益確實是沒有辦法達到我們當初的一個期待必須要整條來貫穿的話那是不是能夠請我們的行政院折騰我們交通部或者折騰交通部的下轄單位來讓我們的地方政府盡快整合意見讓這條線能夠盡快的通過"},{"start":159.192,"end":184.746,"text":"跟委員報告這個必須要地方政府來提出來因為捷運的建制是地方主辦那他們如果提出這樣子的需求我們交通部是已經提了嘛那現在審了嘛那當初其實很謝謝現在的外交部長林佳龍當初在當交通部長的時候其實他就跳下來整合了三個縣市的捷運建設那目前他現在有卡的一點問題我沒有說責任在中央我沒有說責任在誰而是說大家是不是用一個"},{"start":185.566,"end":194.326,"text":"共同去推動的一個角度然後趕快把這條線需要調整的部分大家達成共識讓它盡速的推動這樣子的一個方向"},{"start":194.991,"end":216.358,"text":"好 我們交通部這邊來了解一下目前大家意見的差距在哪裡那大家一起來整合意見好 那再拜託部長那也拜託我們院長則從我們的幕僚單位繼續的來把這件案子來當作考核來繼續來追蹤那另外一個還有一個是基隆捷運基隆捷運在去年的時候已經核定了在蔡英文政府這個執政最後一天核定了"},{"start":216.798,"end":244.478,"text":"那後續目前正在進行基本設計啦那這部分也在審議當中我謝謝部長也有給一些承諾那這條線的一個問題在於經費的一個分攤那我知道全台灣的捷運系統我們要跟部長吵架所以我們就不要吵財化法的問題全台灣的捷運的系統都因為你們說因為財化法去做了一些調整沒關係其他的不談我們就談一下基隆捷運它的特殊性我們知道所有的交通運輸都有分"},{"start":245.439,"end":271.768,"text":"成績運輸跟地方運輸兩個部分沒錯以高速公路來講我們有分以道路系統來講我們有國道對不對中央主政有省道省政府主政現在費省了一樣中央主政縣的部分縣市的部分有縣道縣政府主政接下來有鄉鎮市道層層分級因為你跨的區域越多那就需要更上一層的單位來做整合包括資金費的一個指引"},{"start":272.308,"end":286.436,"text":"基隆捷運它的特殊性在於它從基隆到新北市以及到我們的台北市它跨了三個縣市所以它已經不是單純的過去大家認為的一個城市裡面的捷運路網它已經變成是一個城際的運輸了"},{"start":287.276,"end":314.328,"text":"那其實成績的運輸過去都是依靠台鐵台鐵它其實是一個城市運輸的一個工具台鐵的運量不足了所以說它在沒有辦法擴充包括當初在做第三軌的時候沒有辦法可能因為拆遷的問題沒有辦法整條到基隆都三軌所以說提出了一個替代的方式那就是基隆捷運的延伸所以它的存在是為了彌補城際運輸的一個不足而不能夠用台北市或者是"},{"start":314.888,"end":338.578,"text":"新北市區域性的捷運入網來看這件事情但是基隆捷運的經費跟其他全台灣所有的經費一樣都被刪減了許多的部分包括過去其實也是交通部在組織現在新北市政府接下來了是不是基隆捷運這部分的經費能夠用承繼運輸的方式去給最起碼你說台北市有錢新北市有錢"},{"start":339.238,"end":366.171,"text":"多負擔一些沒關係我不跟你吵這一些但基隆市確實財政確實比較差一些是不是在基隆捷運這部分再給他一些支持讓他們在未來的規劃包括在基本設計在一些做變更設計的時候能夠多一些資源好 我就照委員的意思我們不講財化法可是委員講的就是中央地方市權的分配以及財政集赤的問題以及跨縣市的計劃型補助的問題還有就是地方規劃中央族與補助的"},{"start":367.614,"end":386.656,"text":"其實這個都跟財化法有關我意思是說假設今天不做基隆捷運過去是要做台鐵的第三軌或是台鐵的一個拓寬增加運量這錢是誰出的地方政府要提出他的規劃中央跟他討論之後台鐵做改善一定是交通不出的對不對"},{"start":389.042,"end":404.353,"text":"台鐵去做改善台鐵是交通部一定是交通部中央出的嘛連立體化地方政府都有出錢拓寬的部分因為一些工程的問題他沒有辦法拓寬他沒有辦法去增加運能所以用了另外一種方式去補強他的運能"},{"start":405.033,"end":434.693,"text":"結果這一筆錢你叫地方政府分攤也可以因為對地方有幫助但是不應該把全部的單子都壓在地方政府身上因為這條捷運它的存在是解決承繼運輸功能不足的一個問題所以我們應該要給他更多的一個支持跨縣式的這種計劃就需要用計劃型補助來跨縣提出那中央來跟大家談好之後做這個事權上的分擔還有這個金額金費上的分擔這個都要談好的"},{"start":434.933,"end":458.624,"text":"好 謝謝部長基隆捷運它跟一般的捷運有一些不一樣的地方它是負責曾經運輸的改善的問題跟區內城市內的一個大眾運輸接駁它有一個本質上的一點點的差異再拜託我們的行政院跟交通部未來在審議這條線包括未來可能會做變更設計的時候多多去看一下他們的差異來給一些不一樣的一些評估的補助的方式好不好 拜託"},{"start":460.788,"end":482.908,"text":"跟委員報告如果目前是還沒有做調整就是說中央跟地方的分配比例目前還沒有做調整那未來如果做調整的話我們會思考幾個點兩個很重要的重點一個是地方的財政級距我們要看基隆的財政級距那第二個當然我們會針對捷運相對落後的地方給予多一些協助像基隆對基隆來講這應該是他的第一條捷運"},{"start":484.91,"end":509.953,"text":"那協助就會多一點像新北跟台北捷運已經非常多條了這個協助就會比較少大概以這個原則來看的話再加上他是負責承繼運輸解決我們台鐵的問題這點你納進去看一下好不好再麻煩謝謝那我接下來請教一下部長你應該最近比較沒有機會開車那過去你應該有開車跟委員報告我時常開車抱歉我要問院長抱歉我會問錯抱歉院長最近"},{"start":510.816,"end":523.336,"text":"過去應該有自己開車的經驗那你開車有沒有一種經驗就是說開車開一開順順 突然眼角餘光瞄到好像一台測速照相機然後我們突然急骰剎車你有沒有過這樣子的一個經驗"},{"start":525.68,"end":554.459,"text":"通常我們有那種語音會提醒吧對啦 語音啦一部分有語音嘛一部分有時候沒有語音的時候眼角餘光掃到測速照相機大家的第一個習慣常常會我不知道有沒有超速我就踩個煞車其實這其實是相當危險的啦就會變成說現在是不是他之前都有一個警告牌提醒啦對啦 有時候提醒速擋到還怎麼樣有測速照相就是讓你慢慢的能夠如果你有超速啦能夠慢慢的把它速度減慢一下就變成說現在我們的用戶人我不是跟你說對錯"},{"start":555.74,"end":578.636,"text":"怎樣我是跟你說他是一個普遍的一個現狀那很多我們用路人在開車的時候我們都希望他看著馬路對不對看著前方或者是看一下有沒有可能行人會突然穿越還怎麼樣的情形降低事故率反而但是因為這個測速照相機的一個存在很多人不是把他的精神放在馬路上而是把精神看在有沒有測速照相機我們把我們的"},{"start":579.616,"end":600.83,"text":"應該注意的地方放到了其他地方當然我不是說超速這件事情是對的但是它確實造成一些嚇死行為它分心的問題因此這幾天也有一些藝人提出一些看法他說台灣的測速照相機監獄比密度還高他說這是國恥我沒有要教院長評斷他講的話但是為什麼他的這個評論會形成一個民眾輿論的共鳴"},{"start":608.295,"end":627.631,"text":"只是单纯的因为民众被罚钱心里不开心吗还是有一些其他的原因我们可以去探讨因为现在很多一些路边的停车红线违规只要有民众上网讨拍其实原则民众都是支持执法的因为它就确实违规了但是为什么单就车速照相机这件事情民众他是有共鸣的"},{"start":628.658,"end":640.258,"text":"是不是因為我們的測速照相機它的背後我們被測速照相機的存在有一些討論的地方我們可以看一下其他地方大概是怎麼做的我們加拿大最近大家有在分享加拿大一些案例"},{"start":641.53,"end":662.215,"text":"他認為說他們直接飛到測速照相機他們認為是電台的工具他說啦 也不是我說的他說我們經過測速照相機的時候就煞車經過測速照相機之後就加速其實他沒有他就只是在那邊減速而已然後反而造成速率上面的一個不平均他其實並沒有辦法達到一個真正解決安全的一個問題啦"},{"start":663.035,"end":674.279,"text":"當然他不是只有材料測速照相機他還從工程面去解決用工程面去讓駕駛主動去降低速度這個就是一個全面性的通盤的檢討我們過去常常說10次車速10次車禍9次快"},{"start":681.65,"end":705.744,"text":"映入大家的心裡了啦所以說常常我們就是用測速照相機裁測看是不是能夠減少事故但是從過去的一些統計的資料我們如果直接掃描看其實你看不太到測速照相在哪裡他大概只佔了超速的部分只佔了2.2點多%這109年的資料那下一張包括去年的去年的我們十大的噪音"},{"start":706.57,"end":732.861,"text":"其實也沒有測速照相機在裡面所以說超速這件事情在過去我們的政府的認知裡面是不是有一些可能需要調整的一些地方那為什麼大家會對於超速這麼的反感大概兩個原因啦我看你們認不認同第一個就是限速訂定的不合理第二個就是在不需要設置的地方他也去設置原則上大概就是這兩個問題部長應該有大概去了解一下吧"},{"start":733.693,"end":754.907,"text":"跟委員報告您在說的這個車速照相確實最近很多人在討論不過我有看到一些人是覺得不要超速比較好那這個速度的管理其實有他的道理在跟委員報告就是說車子性能越來越好路越改越好不過人被車子撞到的那個耐受度永遠不會改變"},{"start":755.487,"end":774.313,"text":"人不會變成鋼鐵人部長我時間有限先讓我講一下 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鄭豐市主任整個調查的過程嗎你知道嗎這個要請委員再提供詳細資料"},{"start":65.971,"end":81.361,"text":"他長期要求特定的女同仁幫他安排早餐午餐基層的員工看不慣匿名投訴但7月初二度象徵風勢檢舉結果投訴卻石沉大海我們看到的是"},{"start":82.406,"end":96.655,"text":"官官相護為什麼因為整個機關內部不是不知情在知情的狀況而且早有人澄清的狀況反應卻被人處理所以我現在看到的整個處理後續是口頭懲戒你認為這樣子對嗎"},{"start":100.319,"end":128.921,"text":"我想因為主管他如果因為公務的需要會務的進行有必須在這個時間當中有同事或是應該執行這個工作的同事幫他組備餐點或許可以考量或是會議當中公務進行但如果是長年指定一個非屬他公務該做的行為的同仁去做這個事情那這個就違反我們的公務人員的服務了我跟院長報告長期指定女同仁"},{"start":130.053,"end":151.662,"text":"而且已經有同仁看不下去檢舉我想為什麼要在特別今天交通的這個部分還要提出這一點我認為啊這是霸凌我們前有勞動部的謝宜龍案現在有這樣子的一個疾管署出現霸凌高壓的一個狀況我想院長您在之前已經很審慎的已經告訴所有的部會嚴查"},{"start":153.812,"end":181.224,"text":"所有的各部會對於霸凌的事件不能夠容忍可是現在我們看到連疾管署都有我希望院長你今天應該要直接在三日內公開處理的過程讓全國國人都能夠知道有一個交代我也希望院長在整個行政團隊中再一次的檢視我們已經檢視過了但還是有這樣子的案件竟然是石沉大海我也希望你不惜就責到前署長莊仁祥現在的嘗試"},{"start":183.385,"end":196.841,"text":"落實保護基層公務人員才能夠讓整體不管是任何的部會才能夠認真的做事為國人服務您可以宣示嗎我請衛部先就前一次的調查結果提出詳細的說明"},{"start":198.018,"end":219.783,"text":"那麼我們如果認為這個內容還值得商榷那衛福部必須再重新再處理這個案子我會請衛福部向委員我希望院長要重視啊會好嗎好謝謝院長院長那另外呢就叫今天我們交通的議題想跟你請問國策顧問康迎壽在上週出席大台南的一個國際旅展有透露"},{"start":221.164,"end":236.116,"text":"賴總統特別交代他既然中國不去日本那我們現在就應該帶團去日本觀光現在交通部有規劃協助宣導嗎我跟委員報告我想總統的意思是當你要出國的時候你可以多選擇日本"},{"start":237.268,"end":256.158,"text":"不是 鼓勵國人沒有要出國 多到日本出國康英壽是說總統特別交代盡快要組兩到三百人去日本旅遊 協助推廣日本的旅遊也許你要到別的國家去 你可以去日本我想國人本身就很喜歡去日本旅遊那我們現在是很希望國外的旅客多來台灣"},{"start":257.118,"end":275.158,"text":"這才是重點所以我要問的是國旅怎麼辦在整個交通部的角色我們到底是要先顧台灣國旅還是要先顧日本旅遊我們第一個希望國內的旅遊自己的國人能夠多多的參與國內旅遊再來國外的旅客也能夠多進來台灣那要出去的"},{"start":275.97,"end":305.076,"text":"因為國家一年出去的旅客相當多嘛那總統意思是說如果你要出去何不選擇日本就是這樣一個建議我想我們的總統是中華民國的總統先顧國旅啊不要影響到國旅的業者而且我們要說啊在網友查詢十月底週末他就指出日月潭湖景房的一個價格比照前兩年他大概是兩萬多現在已經到五萬多了部長你覺得這樣子的一個同一個房景"},{"start":306.116,"end":323.514,"text":"然後兩萬多變成五萬多你覺得合理嗎跟委員報告日月潭有一些飯店我所知道他是房間有改變有調整有更新所以你覺得還是回歸合理的市場機制市場機制我們都必須要尊重因為那是私人的產業那私人的商業行為我們都尊重"},{"start":323.894,"end":343.043,"text":"我覺得尊重是一定的但是這個過程到底有沒有謹慎的去評估做鑑定這樣子的相關國旅的環境我們去做了解我想這個部分國人還是很擔心就是說整個國旅的現在價格現在你有說要推旅宿券對不對平日的旅宿券"},{"start":344.904,"end":371.635,"text":"在明年要推出嘛一碗800兩碗1200再加第二碗1200總共2000可是你覺得這實際上可以幫助到國旅嗎我認為如果大家願意平日出去玩的話我相信對國旅是有幫助我們看到網路上的民調當然百分之五十幾覺得說這有機會能夠提升國旅但是也有很多人覺得說本身對於國旅不抱任何期待我希望說不只是這一支箭"},{"start":372.515,"end":401.697,"text":"能夠多管多元的去做這樣子的一個國旅推廣協助國旅樂者這是我們現在的重點我也要跟部長講部長每次總統都喊出國家隊這次喊了觀光的一個國家隊但目前社會最大的疑問國家隊會不會又是口號過去九年我們看到雞蛋 口罩 AI 太空 電吧 打炸每一支國家隊成立都很轟動但是真正解決問題的到底有多少"},{"start":402.628,"end":424.919,"text":"院長你能不能提出一個具體的成效國家隊至少我們在現在委員所提的這幾項當中口罩不僅是國家隊還是世界隊啊給世界提出了很多解決的方式謝謝你提出口罩口罩本席有感還有呢要不要講講打炸雞蛋後來我們也解決了國內雞蛋荒的問題但是雞蛋也有很多的問題"},{"start":426.524,"end":453.512,"text":"有問題那司法調查水落石出調查出來但我們解決的問題是真的這一次國家的一個觀光國家隊問題更明顯政府做了很多國際行銷品牌人才的宣示但最根本我覺得啦剛剛有其他委員關心但我覺得還有一個觀光旅客最重要的體驗就是台灣到底好不好走外國旅客普遍都說道路好可怕過馬路像闖關"},{"start":455.06,"end":484.015,"text":"行人的路燈紅綠燈還要小心車衝過來景點外常常人車攤販混在一起這些都不是地方問題而是全台共同的結構性問題已經變成台灣觀光的國際形象黑洞所以我認為觀光署升格後人只是一個三級機關面對跨部位顯得這個位階不足行政院現在有證官資但他只是一個諮詢平台沒有才事力"},{"start":484.855,"end":496.992,"text":"所以我想完全無法取代過去政官推的一個跨部會決策功能所以我想問院長請你回答觀光國家隊跟過去國家隊有哪些不同"},{"start":498.178,"end":516.498,"text":"他們現在能夠指出幾年能夠指出整個觀光的政策最不足的三點嗎有 我們在明年中央政府總預算裡面有一項重大的政策在裡面就是推升內需推升內需其中 除了這個都更危老這個部分之外另外一個大項就是發展觀光"},{"start":517.546,"end":531.76,"text":"發展觀光要結合很多的因素剛剛委員所說的包括交通所以我要問嘛行政院是否願意重建像政觀推這樣子的一個真正拒絕社訓我們現在已經有這個功能像觀光署提出的四年五百億"},{"start":532.601,"end":560.302,"text":"四年五百億的觀光的推升計畫已經提出來在院會裡面我們也討論過那這個會落實下去所以鄭官之他雖然諮詢來自各個業界的代表都來了他裡面的內容討論出來的決議我們在歷次的會議當中都會引用都會追尋下去我希望院長實際重視鄭官之讓他有機會在整個跨會會當中有立足點當然大家就會尊重他的一個建議所以我想"},{"start":560.942,"end":589.018,"text":"你願不願意把改善旅客行走的一個體驗納入觀光國家隊當然行人的安全這不只是觀光的問題把步行道路相關的一個觀光動線當成國家級的觀光任務嘛它不只是一個觀光任務它是國人安全的問題我們從內政部到交通部都一直在做一般道路學校周遭好自權威都一直在做講到交通安全我們下一個請待會院長稍微看一下"},{"start":589.958,"end":607.069,"text":"院長 接任院長這個到現在應該已經一年六個月在您任內在道路安全政策上做了些什麼你覺得很有感 有具體的成效可不可以跟我分享一下我剛剛說我們有四百個路口兩千個路口 四百個學校"},{"start":608.01,"end":627.371,"text":"周遭道路的行人道都改善了而且你看現在轉彎的地方我們都加大他的角度讓他不會用斜切的方式這個已經是在至少在硬體工程上我們做的這樣而且數目相當多本席在智捷選區也有受惠到這樣的一個建設這個部分本席認同還有呢"},{"start":630.48,"end":655.86,"text":"我來補充一下好嗎我個人的經驗啦比較有感的會是那個庇護島啦然後還有就是說以行人來說還有就是人行的過程當中行人早開實相或者是行人專用實相像逢甲那邊人多的時候行人專用實相我想這樣子喔具體的政策希望更多人受惠啦院長今天我跟院長要來討論這個請問一下院長你有沒有在路上看過這樣的車子"},{"start":659.537,"end":680.884,"text":"院長有嗎這是貨車吧貨車在卸貨裝貨的時候升降尾門在都會區幾乎商家上貨宅配運送全靠這類貨車完成整個物流但是院長你有沒有注意到那薄薄的金屬板這個白色的車一定會被他刮傷升降尾門他的問題已經不是行人了還有騎車開車全台灣都很關注這個議題"},{"start":685.245,"end":703.078,"text":"但是網友都說升降尾門是什麼行動斷頭台我跟院長報告升降尾門已經造成了兩起死亡車禍在今年小連夜新竹市發生一對夫妻直接撞上物流車的尾門雙雙不治"},{"start":705.976,"end":717.903,"text":"2022年也發生了孕婦撞上撞上了大貨車的升降尾門上面當升降尾門剛好與眼睛平行的時候他就是看起來像是一個反光線甚至看不見尾門"},{"start":719.412,"end":747.366,"text":"結果導致撞上我要講這個就只有這兩起死亡車禍嗎一定不止死傷的一定更多但是現在我要討論的是我在3月的時候今年3月開記者會要求交通部要重視這個問題在升降尾門加裝警示燈車尾期交通部也開了三次的會議包括113年6月9月114年3月三度討論但是都遲遲的未公佈要強制加裝"},{"start":748.823,"end":768.437,"text":"到現在4月19交通部公路局就發函各地要求加強宣導交通追的警示燈至今都沒有落實到現在這不就是一個行政怠惰難道要繼續去讓這樣子的憾事這樣子的車禍死亡繼續發生嗎"},{"start":771.001,"end":788.141,"text":"院長您怎麼回應部長說明一下這個過程跟委員報告您關心之後其實交通部就有交代要趕快來開會討論這件事您剛剛也有提到我們已經開了三次會那這個會議最後還是要到車安中心他們去討論說實際上怎麼樣執行因為他們有專業的研究"},{"start":788.761,"end":801.035,"text":"怎麼樣執行會比較好 11月份我打斷你啦 車安中心的確有討論但車安中心找業者嘛車安中心沒有找所謂的行人或者是相關的消費者來參與討論跟委員報告這樣說啦貨車這個沒有消費者的問題啦"},{"start":806.901,"end":828.041,"text":"我認為是一般的用路人的安全這個很重要所以我們就安全來討論所以我希望是要用路人的代表或者是這樣子的團體去參與討論而不是只是單純的貨車業者物流業者業者跟業者之間的討論重點是到現在我看不到整體的宣示我希望院長"},{"start":828.982,"end":850.819,"text":"有沒有機會能夠明確的承諾在今年年底公告相關的法規甚至是要求116年1月1日起整體新車領排的貨車拖車應該要不論大小整體安裝這個升降尾門要有所謂的警示燈車尾期您覺得呢我交通部在跟車站中心去要求"},{"start":851.82,"end":879.026,"text":"要求業者新車加裝可能要一段時間至少一個安全的標誌可以出現吧現在說用交通錐真的不行就已經有交通錐放在外面導致兩起死亡車禍有什麼用呢所以我希望是整體要整個在車尾門裝警示才是真正的交通部不會反對因為時間有限我最後再問我最後問一個問題就好請問一下部長"},{"start":880.174,"end":898.209,"text":"您擔任議員的時候 三線高價化烏日到大慶 當時估價多少錢我印象中沒有錯的話 五十幾億吧五十幾億 當議員的時候呢對 應該是五十幾億現在幾億了現在應該有七八十億了吧院長 這就是重點"},{"start":899.482,"end":915.398,"text":"台中 我們現在的烏日到大慶三線高架化 鐵路高架化從當時部長擔任議員五十幾億到現在已經八十幾億了台中市已經三度修正相關的計畫到交通部了可是交通部遲遲沒有同意沒有同意的原因是"},{"start":916.859,"end":929.082,"text":"因為要專案補助我覺得先有進度先有進度先通過經費再來喬嘛你再不喬一直每年都在加價所以我希望務必三線高價能"},{"start":936.647,"end":946.131,"text":"目前他們是做的"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}