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Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":1047.248,"end":1049.693,"text":"在這邊寫什麼今天是經濟紀錄在那個對面那邊"},{"start":2964.605,"end":2990.278,"text":"報告委員會出席委員已足法定人數現在開會介紹在場委員現在有賴會員委員張其凱委員林月琴委員徐宇貞委員"},{"start":2994.824,"end":3005.286,"text":"好 現在介紹列席官員本院周萬來秘書長張玉榮副秘書長孔炳傑秘書處國際事務處林承熙處長議事處高百祥處長想說怎麼沒看到你"},{"start":3022.659,"end":3043.312,"text":"公報處 蘇顯興處長總務處 廖炯志處長法治局 郭明正局長預算中心 陳玉清主任國會圖書館 梁文華館長"},{"start":3049.4,"end":3077.368,"text":"中南部中心 邱俊榮主任義政博物館 徐仙青館長人事處 黃瑞月處長主計處 許進江處長現在介紹出席委員我們葛如君委員"},{"start":3084.878,"end":3108.142,"text":"好 現在宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第130屆經費集合委員會第六次會議議事錄時間114年12月19日星期五中午12時10分至12時54分地點本院群閑樓101會議室出席委員陳培鈺委員等8人請教委員謝一鳳委員列席人員周祕書長萬來等15人主席張祺凱委員紀錄黃秋艷"},{"start":3112.463,"end":3131.397,"text":"一 報告事項 一 宣讀上次會議議事錄 決定議事錄確定二 本院一百一四年度預算執行情形報告截至一百一四年十一月止 決定准與被查二 臨時動議 一 陳培宇委員提有關陳玉珍委員提出立法院組織法第32條 第33條 第35條條文修正草案"},{"start":3134.979,"end":3162.174,"text":"請法治局作出相關配套研究以免因稅捐及勞健保歸戶等問題陷委員於不義決議請人事處及法治局列入參考二 賴會員委員提有關目前過半住宿委員贊成拆除台北會館房間隔間合併使用事宜請總務處先行針對建築結構進行安全性評估並在確保結構安全無虞之前提下"},{"start":3162.874,"end":3182.207,"text":"為未來住宿委員規劃提供更多樣與舒適的居住選擇決議請總務處嚴處並循本院相關程序辦理後續事宜宣讀完畢好謝謝那現在請問各位委員一輸入有無錯誤"},{"start":3186.291,"end":3192.762,"text":"沒有錯誤那我們就按照議事錄那請主計處許處長許進江處長報告"},{"start":3204.451,"end":3229.004,"text":"主席各位委員大家好以下緊就立法院114年度12月份截至整理期間115年1月7日預算執行情形報告本院為國家最高立法機關為持續推展院務各項經費收支均依實際需要按相關規定核實辦理以有效支援委員議案審查工作"},{"start":3229.824,"end":3243.221,"text":"有關一百一十四年度十二月份節制整理期間一百一十五年一月七日指預算執行情形請詳附表一概況表附表二明細表緊究稅務類經費類項目重點內容說明如後"},{"start":3247.326,"end":3274.477,"text":"1 税入类114年度税入类预算共编列1044万9千元截至整理期间115年1月7日止累计实收数1186万6千元包括罚款及赔偿收入129万1千元财产收入894万3千元及其他收入163万2千元2 经费类"},{"start":3275.778,"end":3280.362,"text":"114年度經費累計區分一般行政委員問政業務等9個業務計畫共編列預算37億2436萬2000元含追加預算截至整理期間115年1月7日至"},{"start":3291.291,"end":3317.15,"text":"累計實質數33億1829萬5000元執行率89.17%主要區分下列三大項目一委員問政專項經費本項目包括委員稅費及公費公費助理國會交流事務委員會館問政相關業務及黨團補助等六個工作計畫項目共編列委員問政及選民服務等相關經費14億9604萬元"},{"start":3320.652,"end":3335.11,"text":"截至整理期间115年1月7日之累计实质数14亿2460万6千元执行率95.23%主要包括委员税工费及选民服务费"},{"start":3335.831,"end":3350.297,"text":"公費助理酬金及加班費等人事費12億3423萬4千元委員研究室住宿會館水電通訊費團體保險辦公室務費交通費及國會交流等業務費1億7682萬2千元黨團補助費1355萬元"},{"start":3357.02,"end":3374.341,"text":"二 意识行政支援经费 本项目包括一般行政 意识业务 立法咨询业务 国会图书业务 公报业务及地域背景等六个工作计划项目 公编列 意识行政支援及职工人员维持等相关经费"},{"start":3375.121,"end":3399.847,"text":"20亿2712万4千元节制整理期间115年1月7日止累计实质数17亿9763万3千元执行率88.81%主要包括职工信奉保险及退休赎金等人事费12亿8187万7千元院区水电通讯费资讯服务费"},{"start":3400.487,"end":3403.469,"text":"辦公房設及公務車輛養護、國會頻道委託轉播等業務費4億7,834萬9千元圖書資料庫購置等設備費3,554萬元退休職工三節慰問金及年節特別照護金等獎補助費186萬7千元"},{"start":3421.774,"end":3449.054,"text":"3.一般建築及设备经费本项目包括营建工程、交通及运输设备及其他设备等三个工作计划项目共编列2亿119万8千元包括本院委员住宿会馆整修周边环境空间安全优化委员公用车辆汰换各项资讯应用系统开发及软硬体设备购置汰换数位影音储存资料库及数位印刷机等案"},{"start":3449.815,"end":3467.432,"text":"截至整理期间115年1月7日之累计市值数96056000元执行率47.74%主要系立法院委员住宿会馆整修工程案第一期当会馆前以陆续办理验收"},{"start":3468.032,"end":3485.007,"text":"尚需配合委員實際入住需求改善將持續督請廠商以對委員影響最少的方式辦理 必立後續付款令立法院周邊環境空間安全優化工程歷經三次招標 無廠商投標 致影響預算執行進度"},{"start":3488.226,"end":3507.942,"text":"3.以上系本院114年度12月份截至整理期间115年1月7日止至预算执行情形均依业务实际需要及规定程序本准结原则核实检讨办理整体预算执行上称正常仅就重点内容扼要报告敬请指教谢谢"},{"start":3512.383,"end":3532.002,"text":"好大家對於我們許進江主計處的處長報告的有沒有意見那委員沒有意見的話那我們就備查請問有沒有臨時動議"},{"start":3536.204,"end":3548.304,"text":"我現在先介紹到場的委員補充介紹一下陳培淤委員 郭育晴委員好 那臨時動議請陳培淤委員"},{"start":3574.172,"end":3591.139,"text":"對 我就說去年有尾牙但是他們可能覺得那個不算尾牙 算同樂會anyway我不知道 因為我沒有參加過那是因為有立法院的工作人員在反映這樣那我想說我們身為經費集合委員會的委員幫他們提議一下拜託秘書長跟院長幫忙辦同仁很有感的尾牙anyway我也不知道謝謝"},{"start":3596.801,"end":3605.496,"text":"主席我來加碼一下那個要跟秘書長報告去年我有去參加那個實在不像尾牙比較像同樂會"},{"start":3609.708,"end":3632.534,"text":"所以一併嘛 在以後 就從今年開始嘛從今年開始是不是會更好一點好我先講 那請孔署長細節上再說明其實韓院長來以後 技工工友以前往常是沒有的全部都沒有 就是一個餐敘"},{"start":3635.386,"end":3650.68,"text":"韓院長來他對這個比較基層的員工他很在意所以這一個尾牙的活動是等於全院的職工所以我覺得去年的反應反而是我所聽的並不是很壞"},{"start":3651.981,"end":3668.139,"text":"而且很多的尤其技工工友啊對院長是比較非常等於非常感激啦所以我不知道陳委員所提的是哪些職工我不太了解但今年的這一個處理方式啊"},{"start":3668.519,"end":3684.213,"text":"因為我想孔署長細節性他比較清楚我請他跟委員報告一下大概今年的情況大概也是一樣一般大概有七八百個人有參加這個活動"},{"start":3685.354,"end":3702.726,"text":"包括那個順便的銅鑼其實院長把他的特別會拿出來發給這些員工的拿到獎那個得獎的人院長也用他自己的特別會拿出來給他們其實我是覺得大概以整體的院的"},{"start":3704.186,"end":3731.997,"text":"團隊來看應該並不是大概可能跟成為環境的員工我是不知道他是從哪個角度在看因為我在立安以前都是在餐廳然後做一個大概都職員那職員以後大概餐敘完就結束了以前是這樣的活動但是這一屆是有點改變有點改變這一個主政是在秘書處"},{"start":3733.377,"end":3753.918,"text":"是不是我可不可以请秘书处总处长再细节说明谢谢我们秘书长的说明因为过去之前上一届没办这一届开始办如果说有办得不好的地方委员所提出我们就请秘书处再做进一步的说明以及改进"},{"start":3765.763,"end":3785.393,"text":"主席 各位委員 秘書處報告有關去年尾牙的經驗我們今年也有特別來做進一步的改善的規劃所以今年我們原則上會規劃在2月初的時候在餐廳來舉辦委員的建議我們會盡量把尾牙辦得更加的有感 謝謝"},{"start":3786.741,"end":3807.177,"text":"好 謝謝那請郭玉琴委員做發言我幫公務車司機他們曾經跟我反映過的我來問一下就是說他們現在在講說有一些車子他們會汰換汰換完之後其實還包含就是洗車的部分現在好像也變得不一樣就是跟過去是不一樣的"},{"start":3808.017,"end":3826.754,"text":"我是覺得是不是可以比方說我們可以跟建國北路橋下建國南路橋下就是像是陽光洗車中心是不是可以跟他們用類似由立法院去跟他們對談然後我們用洗車券的方式就是讓"},{"start":3827.955,"end":3844.656,"text":"司機他們自己覺得我車子真的需要去清理而不是說現在變成另外一種方式反而會造成來幫忙他們就是清潔的那個人員他們是我聽說啦就是他們有時候車子排隊好不容易排到他結果後來那個洗車的人員就說他要回家了他有事要回家"},{"start":3847.259,"end":3862.217,"text":"其實這個他們也會希望能夠維持公務車的乾淨是因為為了要再委員但是如果說他們有這樣的困擾是不是可以由我們立法院這邊我們如果擔心說他們的這個洗車的費用"},{"start":3863.317,"end":3888.206,"text":"會衍生出費用的問題那是由我們立法院這邊如果直接去跟這個洗車中心去談我們是用集體買券分給每一個就是我們公務車的司機那每一個月的多少幾張配額那讓他們決定說我的車子髒了我自己去洗這樣就可以了我覺得這反而是一種方便啦就給他們方便啦對我們來講其實也是我覺得也是很好的一種方式啦以上"},{"start":3889.83,"end":3902.629,"text":"好謝謝郭玉琴委員的建議那我們現在請我們總務處的廖總志處長來做說明不好意思補充介紹一下林倩琦委員"},{"start":3905.063,"end":3930.54,"text":"好謝謝委員的指教那也關心我們的公務車同仁的心聲那這個案子也是在之前的經費集合委員會有做這樣的提示那我們在前一陣子辦了一個整體的招標那幫大家在洗車打蠟的費用整體有壓低那不過在試運轉的這兩個月就是說大概可能有這種塞車的情況那也謝謝委員的提醒因為這個標案我們才剛辦完"},{"start":3931.36,"end":3957.479,"text":"那我們再檢討看怎麼來做調整包含說您所提的遷移我們都想辦法把它納入謝謝委員的提醒 謝謝好 那我們是不是就按照廖處長說明讓他先把這個就是說新試行的計畫先進行過一段期間後續再做相關的檢討好不好好 沒問題 謝謝好 謝謝那請問還有沒有其他的臨時動議呢"},{"start":3962.691,"end":3967.346,"text":"好 那沒有臨時動議我們今天就到此為止 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Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":2296.035,"end":2303.478,"text":"好 國民黨團的人到沒有要等國民黨團的人到沒有啦 國民黨團還沒到訪問一下 確確確確確確確確確確確確確確確確確確確確確"},{"start":2330.323,"end":2355.268,"text":"對啦 你要去買三分器沒有啦 人家不來要怎麼開始因為你不是要跟社家屬你去調他沒把你放下去看怎麼處理看怎麼處理因為請委員你們在委員會的時候跟他承諾沒有放進去"},{"start":2377.725,"end":2379.905,"text":"寫商前先寫商這邊我都幫你貼起來了"},{"start":3115.939,"end":3143.263,"text":"好好我們要開始了好協商會議開始現在進行協商額頭法請大家看協商通知的這個協商主題那另外有關這個徐曉新委員板將於今天進入二讀故一起加入這個協商那現在介紹在場的委員第一位是林月琴林委員再來是林淑恩林委員"},{"start":3145.16,"end":3158.475,"text":"王振旭 王委員陳昭芝 陳委員介紹在場的官員 我們衛務部 呂健德次長社交署 周道軍署長還有法規會參事專門委員 許子惠"},{"start":3161.274,"end":3187.108,"text":"好 謝謝內政部副政司檢任視察蘇志門謝謝警政署科長鄭世哲好 謝謝還有專員王育俊王育俊有簽名 人不在了馬上通緝 OK消防署專門委員簡旭淳"},{"start":3188.356,"end":3200.944,"text":"好 謝謝還有國土管理署檢任政工程師盧昭鴻 謝謝我們法務部參事汪洋君好 謝謝教育部國監署副組長郭志銀 謝謝勞動部勞動福祉退休師專務委李娟鳳謝謝"},{"start":3209.862,"end":3217.787,"text":"勞動條件及就業評審師科長楊怡婷謝謝勞動關係師專門委員許瓊月謝謝經濟部人事處專委張雅惠謝謝財政部國有財政署組長吳橋梅謝謝護稅署科長蔡旭毅謝謝國庫署科長洪培明謝謝經管會保險局科長陳佳"},{"start":3243.124,"end":3253.387,"text":"陳嘉禾是不是 謝謝然後原住民委員會社會福利署副處長洪寧 謝謝行政院人事行政總署專門委員謝艾倫 謝謝還有個人資料保護委員會籌備處科長曾傑好 謝謝"},{"start":3262.595,"end":3284.445,"text":"剛剛那個通緝 麻煩通緝一下好 謝謝那本案提報院會併案審查報告保留條文既有22條 另有附帶決議保留案8案然後由於本案具專業性 希望今日各保留條文盡量寫商通過 那也請各位委員中考量 衛福部也隨時溝通"},{"start":3285.444,"end":3301.333,"text":"那今天進行的方式 能請衛護部先做說明 再請各位委員提出意見那最後會眾協商結論 再請各黨團來簽名衛護部提出之相關建議條文 已經在各位委員的座上 請大家參閱好"},{"start":3304.079,"end":3332.621,"text":"現在我們就請衛務部先做說明好 請署長召委及各位委員大家早安今天是第三條 對不起 第三條我們說第三條的部分為了便於等一下在協商的過程委員可以參閱那我們大概有準備幾份基本資料那第一個是所有要保留的條文跟相關的事項我們先有準備一個基本的目錄那委員這邊應該都有提供各位委員可以參閱"},{"start":3333.522,"end":3352.547,"text":"那接下來就是這個我們在提供給委員資料這個彙整的表格裡面的話我們大概都基本上每一個條文都準備建議的建議的文字好那我們建議是不是等一下就可能我們會就建議欄的這個文字來跟委員做一個報告好那以下就就草案第三條的部分做一個說明"},{"start":3353.627,"end":3377.827,"text":"那草案第三條的部分先前在保留的過程主要的希望要需要處理的部分是第一個是有關定點零拖的部分要怎麼樣去做後續的這個如果要去把它納到這個法案裡面來處理的時候那在定義的部分需要對定點零拖加個定義所以我們增加增列在第六款裡面那另外"},{"start":3380.199,"end":3409.247,"text":"搭配後面草案有關照顧爭議的部分的條文我們也甄列了在第20款對照顧爭議的部分我們甄列了一個定義的文字那我們大概就這個部分做了兩個文字的處理那簡單宣讀定點零拖的部分我們文字定義為指直轄市縣市主管機關於符合托育環境安全之指定處所自行或委託非營利性執法人機構或團體提供非固定時段之托育服務"},{"start":3410.007,"end":3427.354,"text":"那第20款照顧爭議的部分我們定義是指兒童之法定代理人或實際照顧兒童之人認為照顧情形不符其待應由托育人員負責所生之爭議以上好來請立書委員"},{"start":3430.663,"end":3456.616,"text":"我想基本上大概都可以接受不過因為你們新增這個照顧爭議裡面所謂的照顧情形不符期待照顧情形不符期待好像太過廣泛不夠明確所以我們想說是不是能夠具體的講說應該是托育品質不符期待托育品質不符期待"},{"start":3460.836,"end":3479.131,"text":"行政長官表示意見我們當初用照顧情形不符而期待其實是有一些家長在反映的時候這個因為這個樣態真的非常的多那也有一些其實不一定完全涉及到品質例如說可能跟這個小朋友中間可能會吵架"},{"start":3479.811,"end":3498.186,"text":"那或者是其他這個玩具有掉了的這種情形這個跟照顧的品質有的時候關聯看起來會比較弱一點點那我們覺得即使是這一類的狀況如果家長有反應的話還是最好能夠有一個機會做一個處理所以我們確實是把文字稍微放得寬一點"},{"start":3498.886,"end":3515.953,"text":"那如果是這樣如果要當然如果要用這個照顧品質不符期待的話那可能會變成是這個會不會在實務執行面的時候因為縣市在談的時候可能他跟品質沒有直接關聯的時候會不會讓這個家長說那可能就鼓勵"},{"start":3516.753,"end":3540.404,"text":"就縣市就是說那不然就家長跟托育的單位自己來做一些協調跟處理我們是希望說讓縣市可以有比較深的或者比較廣的參與所以我們把定義文字稍微放大一點大概出發點是這樣是一個這樣的想法那當然如果說最後討論要用品質的話我們是可以接受請說因為整部法在討論這個這個"},{"start":3548.569,"end":3569.916,"text":"這個托育托育所以所以我們在講說你把照顧情形四個字雖然範圍放廣了但是基本上我們還是要限縮在是不是跟托育有關的托育品質那其他的爭議就用一般其實一般的架構一般法律有一些架構等等"},{"start":3572.186,"end":3601.278,"text":"這裡是規範保姆 業者 機構他的托育所以我們應該是期待他在有托育品質不符期待的時候所衍生的這一些爭議托育人員負責所生的這個爭議等於是保姆要負責的小朋友吵架是保姆要負責的裡面當然是協調過程那玩具掉了"},{"start":3601.991,"end":3614.385,"text":"他要負責什麼也是跟托育品質有關的我們才比較受理嘛否則跟托育品質無關的我們會受理嗎"},{"start":3619.431,"end":3646.207,"text":"我們初步的想法是說就讓縣市在受理端的時候就不需要再去做一個說去篩選跟品質有沒有相關就是能夠開 因為這個後面在照顧爭議的時候 主要是縣市政府來幫忙做一個調處的動作讓縣市的門可以開大一點 能夠多來幫忙去處理這一類的狀況當然我們還是強調就是最後如果是用品質的話 我們沒有意見"},{"start":3647.168,"end":3672.567,"text":"对因为你这个你讲的把门开很多可是其实他们的劳动条件都不是很好啦他们劳动条件流动率劳动条件不好流动率很高那你什么事情都要说要有争议然后就可以这个调除或者是就要干嘛其实可能会增加更多的门开太多的话可能会增加更多的负担呢"},{"start":3673.536,"end":3700.224,"text":"所以我們是不是應該限縮在說也不是限縮啦因為照顧爭議這四個這是照顧情形不符期待這四個字太廣泛門也開到無限的大了所以跟托育服務相關的應該限縮在跟托育服務相關的那托育服務相關的我們想一想是不是就是托育品質"},{"start":3702.662,"end":3731.606,"text":"其实托育品质也包含很多你说小朋友吵架了老师的调解的方式并没有那么好在这种状况里面其实也是托育品质也可以涵盖进来但他玩具掉了找不到了你说要叫老师去给他要调除这个跟托育品质有关吗吵架我觉得会但玩具掉了在哪里掉不知道这个"},{"start":3735.311,"end":3764.069,"text":"是不是要想一下啦我是覺得好像也不算細說啦但是就門你照顧情形照顧情形不符合期待就太抽象了抽象了還是要具體一點應該都可以啦我覺得這個我們尊重我們配合對不對都可以啦好啦那我們就這個情形改為品質啦好不好各位委員有沒有其他意見沒有好那請衛福部宣讀"},{"start":3766.122,"end":3787.718,"text":"第20款那重新宣讀第20款的文字照顧爭議指兒童之法定代理人或實際照顧兒童之人認為照顧品質不符其待應由托育相關人員負責所生之爭議是不是托育品質托育品質 對不起"},{"start":3789.488,"end":3811.354,"text":"我重新再念一次照顧爭議指兒童之法定代理人或實際照顧兒童之人認為托育品質不符其待應由托育相關人員負責所生之爭議以上好各位有沒有其他意見沒有那我們就修正通過那請衛福部列印出確定版再給各位做檢視謝謝那我們繼續來處理"},{"start":3816.09,"end":3843.985,"text":"是第6條那第6條的部分這個部分先前大部分的文字都已經討論過有一個確認那其中大概在在第6條的部分有一個主要要處理的是當時委員的版本裡面有一個是希望對於應該是月刑委員的條的版本裡面有一個"},{"start":3845.057,"end":3847.489,"text":"他希望增訂一個條文就是直轄市"},{"start":3849.024,"end":3877.299,"text":"縣市主管機關辦理定點零拖服務他的場地跟環境的要求那因為我們是覺得這一個條文主要是規定指的是縣市主管機關而不是針對定點零拖的所以我們是建議這個部分文字可以拆出來會放到另外一個條次序那但是文字的部分我們是可以接受我們是可以配合月行委員的條文版本我們文字稍微做一點小的文字整理"},{"start":3877.979,"end":3903.735,"text":"那這個調適我們會建議會是擺在目前照院版的調適安排的話會擺在第18條之後那針對定點零託部分這個調適我們會去到最後再順文字內容是直轄市縣市主管機關辦理定點零食托育服務其場地應符合居家托育環境安全規定且人員應具居家托育人員資格"},{"start":3904.896,"end":3931.851,"text":"前項定點臨時托育服務之監督檢查與輔導及其他應遵循事項之辦法由中央主管機關定職 以上好來有沒有委員要表示意見沒有意見沒有意見好那我們第6條就修正通過那請衛部一樣列出確定版再給提供給各位委員做檢視那繼續審查第"},{"start":3936.968,"end":3961.196,"text":"16條請行政機關說明跟委員報告那個主要的爭議在第6這個新增的條文的部分那第6條本文的部分那文字當時在審查完之後有幾個地方的文字也需要再做一個確認那我們把這個跟行政院版不同的地方的文字我們一併再宣讀一次"},{"start":3962.051,"end":3985.269,"text":"第一個直轄市縣市主管機關掌理下列事項第一款的部分會甄列推廣就是直轄市縣市托育服務政策與方案之規劃訂定推廣宣導研究及執行第二款第三款維持行政院版的條文第四款文字修正為直轄市縣市居家托育服務中心之輔導監督及檢查"},{"start":3988.376,"end":4017.254,"text":"那第五款第六款第七款的文字與行政院版的草案相同第八款第六條縣市政府的職責因為當時委員版對於縣市政府應該做的工作版本中間有一些不一樣的這個原來在研擬的時候有不一樣的設計所以我們把綜合的委員版的條文在主要是增訂在第四款然後另外增訂第八款"},{"start":4018.401,"end":4046.534,"text":"協助托育人員組織及家長組織之成立然後增訂第九款違反本法因處罰還程度裁量基準之訂定所以會多增加 一共會有兩款會增加有兩款會修正文字 以上好請各位表示意見沒有 沒有意見"},{"start":4049.61,"end":4073.943,"text":"有麥克風因為之前在第一輪討論的時候 針對於我原本放在第5條的第8款所以我不知道是不是應該在這提出來還是要到17條那邊 為什麼因為本來我在第5條第8款有提出來針對家外安置放置在保母家的這一塊"},{"start":4074.583,"end":4094.38,"text":"要有一些要件那時候是說他們要另立一條然後放在第10院版的17條之後可是到第二輪的時候也沒放所以第二輪都已經討論完了那我的這一條是沒列進去所以要在這時候去討論還是等下我們在17條之後真的是按照當初"},{"start":4097.856,"end":4107.594,"text":"市大署這邊再提出來的東西 然後跟我的診病去討論 我原來提的是在第5條的第8款跟第2項以上"},{"start":4110.006,"end":4130.167,"text":"剛剛林委員應該有跟署長溝通你們的建議怎樣是要現在還是要我們確實從行政運作的角度因為針對如果用居家托育人員來做安置的時候行政管理上面通常我們目前的行政管理結構它會統一從安置的這塊做保管"},{"start":4131.048,"end":4151.147,"text":"條文的設計我們確實是比較建議有沒有機會未來放到兒少法的修正版本裡面去那我們本來會建議是不是有機會可以用一個附帶決議的方式就是要求把這樣的文字未來在修兒少法的時候納進去"},{"start":4153.189,"end":4176.868,"text":"不過剛才跟月行委員報告過月行委員還是覺得說還是在這邊訂進來那我們也可以接受只是調次的部分我們是建議也是一樣可能要擺在居家托育那一張的最後要再增列一條調次需要可能調次到時候可能最後順下來需要再做安排文字的部分我們是可以依照先前我們會建議的先前有討論過一個文字"},{"start":4181.031,"end":4200.916,"text":"這個文字會分成兩項我簡單的宣讀居家托育人員經直轄市縣市主管機關依兒童及少年福利與權益保障法規定辦理照顧家外安置兒童者應先接受一定時數之教育訓練"},{"start":4202.15,"end":4228.225,"text":"好 第二項直轄市縣市主管機關於安置前應評估居家托育人員之適任性並建立於安置期間之仿試機制不是 算了 你是要放在另外一個章節嘛對不對 要放到第二章 第二章嘛 居家托育那一章我現在確定要放這邊 我們就先來討論 如果是要放後邊我們等後邊討論 對啦 我只是想確定程序 她剛剛一直在宣讀我就覺得怪怪的"},{"start":4229.215,"end":4246.601,"text":"那我們就後邊再 對對對好那我們對我們就回到第6條那各位委員有沒有其他意見剛剛是沒有意見啦好那沒有意見我們就修正通過請衛福部印出確定版之後再給這個委員做檢視好謝謝"},{"start":4249.741,"end":4274.35,"text":"主席 剛剛講確定版的話 第6條確定 可是剛剛署長又有念另外一個有沒有 那個也是放在後邊條子嗎就是這個黃色的這一塊 就是針對於零拖的一些要求因為我現在都很怕漏掉的好第6條就照這樣宣讀 修正通過了我們繼續審查第16條"},{"start":4281.407,"end":4295.304,"text":"來 請說抱歉 第十一條本來是說新增第二項我們都沒有意見但是有一個就是說一二三四 第四項"},{"start":4296.772,"end":4323.673,"text":"地方主管機關及居家托育服務中心對於居家托育人員的監督及檢查任何人不得規避妨礙或拒絕那其實我們想加一個就是說檢查時不得藉故藏匿兒童因為我們擔心檢查的時候有可能會藏匿兒童藉故"},{"start":4326.653,"end":4355.179,"text":"那你看不到11抱歉11條對沒錯對因為你們的版本是居家托育人員不得沒有沒有我們不希望這個主持拿掉因為不是特定的托育人員有可能會藏匿而投有可能同住的家人或友人"},{"start":4356.522,"end":4371.941,"text":"所以任何人都不可以藉故藏匿兒童所以居家托育人員這個主詞應該拿掉檢查時不得藉故藏匿兒童這樣子的涵蓋範圍比較寬廣"},{"start":4374.791,"end":4391.84,"text":"他沒有那個保姆沒有藏匿啊是他的家人或是他的朋友藏匿的那他的朋友跟家人怎麼管所以應該是不要限縮在保姆就是居家托育人員這幾個字拿掉就可以了11條第4款"},{"start":4409.542,"end":4423.009,"text":"就是納管任何人加進來 藏匿的都要納管針對這個部分"},{"start":4426.735,"end":4445.965,"text":"我們是可以如果要把我們原來是想說增列居家托育人員不得去增加這樣的這個把這個文字放進去其實是搭配罰則的條文因為原來處罰到他的構成要件就是居家居家托育人員不可以去不可以去藉口藏匿兒童"},{"start":4446.505,"end":4474.065,"text":"那如果要放大到任何人都不可以去妨礙規避的話我想我們也可以 我們可以配合就沒有問題那只是等下後面相關的調遲法則要一邊調整法則我們等下到相關調遲的時候我們配合再來做整個文字的時候要記住喔 就是你39年對不起喔 對不起我請官員不要在這邊粗粗碌碌好不好不好意思啦 因為外面在辦活動委員在跟行政單位在大家討論事情我不曉得官員為什麼要進行粗粗"},{"start":4475.339,"end":4502.183,"text":"你如果說委內因為要到院會進出會有道理那我們官員為什麼要叫進進出出因為外面有在辦活動如果沒有我不會講對啦 因為聲音已經有點干擾了而且已經太密集了好 那就是說我們希望每個人都不能夠藉故藏匿兒童不是限縮在保母那後面的法則要一併調整沒有錯好 OK"},{"start":4505.462,"end":4524.359,"text":"這個部分我們會配合整理預計會擺在66條的後面他需要單獨整列好那但是11條這邊文字現在把居家托育人員刪除我們同意我們可以配合但是11條沒有在保留條裡面所以是不是要再請"},{"start":4526.836,"end":4547.591,"text":"因為要提出一個修正動應該是不用因為現在是黨團協商了嘛那黨團協商是本來每一條都可以討論的也都可以修正所以我才說是不是要再提一個修正動是這樣不用直接就可以改了因為是黨團協商總部法律都可以所以十一條要再練一下"},{"start":4552.011,"end":4575.701,"text":"不用了應該現在就可以改了好那我把第11條的第4項重新宣讀如下直轄市縣市主管機關及居家托育服務中心對於居家托育人員之監督及檢查任何人不得規避妨礙或拒絕檢查時不得藉故藏匿兒童"},{"start":4579.505,"end":4586.071,"text":"好 11條我們就這樣修正通過了 一樣請衛部印出確定版 再給委員做檢視那我們一樣處理第16條"},{"start":4598.06,"end":4625.961,"text":"另外跟主席報告這個11條是先前有通過不過後來在後面通過罰則第63條的時候有通過一個文字上面有增加有通過一個罰則但是我們在11條這邊可能文字需要配合做一個處理需要增加第二項的文字才會比較周延我們先讀一下我們預計增列在11條第二項的文字"},{"start":4626.741,"end":4652.771,"text":"居家托育人員提供居家托育服務期間有暫停收托服務之需要應向主管機關申請暫停收托服務因為後面在罰則有一個暫停收托服務的罰則那條已經通過了那這個跟委員討論過說這個這樣的行為是需要處罰所以前端需要補一個補一項的文字各位有沒有意見那就請刑事機關"},{"start":4653.451,"end":4682.427,"text":"還是把這個修正後的版本再提出來給委員做確定做做檢視好繼續處理第16條來請說明第16條的部分就是有關是有關這個在居家托育人員在收托的時候要完成相關的投保的保險以及在發生保險事故的時候要辦理理賠那這個部分的話"},{"start":4685.987,"end":4711.128,"text":"那我們有一個建議這個當時在討論的時候對於理賠的部分居家托育服務中心的角色我們建議16條的文字整體修正如下第16條居家托育人員應於收托兒童當日前完成投保專業責任保險前項保險期間發生保險事故時居家托育服務中心應主動協助辦理理賠事宜"},{"start":4715.356,"end":4733.605,"text":"那先前處分委員這邊是對於說這個因為有一些居托人員在投保的時候不一定是透過居托中心去投保那所以第二項如果說要協助辦理理賠用因會不會對於居托中心責任比較重那我們是覺得建議是說這個"},{"start":4735.766,"end":4745.936,"text":"因為其實這一項對於拘托中心是沒有罰則只是希望拘托中心盡量來做一個幫忙的動作那是不是可以維持一個因大概是這樣好 來"},{"start":4747.691,"end":4771.821,"text":"好我補充一下因為現在94%的狀態就是中心讓保姆並列要保人那由中心協助保姆投保應主動協助這樣課則是合理的因為保姆跟中心都是要保人嘛但我們講是沒有還有6%是沒有透過中心投保的"},{"start":4772.481,"end":4801.537,"text":"那他要如何協助理賠那或者是說應主動協助辦理理賠事情那要到什麼程度 要協助什麼程度就是協助辦理理賠事宜的程度要到哪裡他沒有透過中心 其實只有保姆自行去投保"},{"start":4803.993,"end":4821.807,"text":"那個跟委員報告如果是這樣的話我們建議是不是我們在說明欄的部分我們把這個居托中心的角色做一個比較明確的釐清我們也許可以這樣子去寫就是專業責任保險是透過居家托育服務中心來投保的話"},{"start":4823.248,"end":4851.057,"text":"那居家托育服務中心就需當然應該要去協助做相關的理賠那如果是由居家托育人員就是保姆自行投保的話那居家托育服務中心接獲這個通報收托兒童有發生保險事故那就可以跟居家托育人員去聯繫了解他的保險理賠辦理的處理的情形那這樣的話就把他的角色做一個比較明確的敘述好 OK那你在立法說明欄講清楚就是有區分嘛 好"},{"start":4853.612,"end":4865.194,"text":"好 可以喔 一樣就修正通過了也請衛務部印出確定版本給各位來做檢視繼續來處理第林署務委員的第22條林署務委員的"},{"start":4883.423,"end":4886.718,"text":"你們是隨家顧,二則意義"},{"start":4891.088,"end":4917.91,"text":"在大本是在第61啊就在院版16條下面那這個部分的話我們對於這個署分委員的這個條文的文字那基本上方向我們接受那只是在處理的部分我們大概文字稍微做一點點整理那我宣讀如下"},{"start":4918.991,"end":4933.43,"text":"直轄市縣市主管機關應該應訂定居家托育服務緊急傷病或事故傷害之救護原則第二項 兒童發生緊急傷病或事故傷害之處理"},{"start":4937.045,"end":4961.068,"text":"居家托育人員應依前項原則執行施救步驟護送就醫地點呼叫緊急救護專線支援之事項並與法定代理人或實際照顧兒童之人未到達前採取必要之處置第三項居家托育服務中心應輔導居家托育人員落實第一項原則以上"},{"start":4965.147,"end":4978.439,"text":"可以 妹妹第16條應該印那個立法說明欄好吧 可以啦 立法說明欄它沒有印好 但是這一條你沒有放在哪邊因為它是 這是另外的一個單獨22條"},{"start":4983.316,"end":4995.524,"text":"好 調適就授權給委員去做調整了原則上就照現在這個排下來我們就擺在16個時期之間好啦 OK那就修正通過也請衛福部印出這個確定的版給委員做檢視那繼續討論處理第30條中間這個在討論30條之前剛才有在討論第3條"},{"start":5009.611,"end":5033.008,"text":"对不起第5条和第对那个刚刚你们讲的已经宣读过是不是还需要再宣读做一个确认因为它会摆在目前会预计会摆在第10会摆在第17条18条之前18条之前刚才有宣读那就直接处理了好不好刚刚有宣读看要不要再宣读一次然后连住了"},{"start":5041.562,"end":5058.01,"text":"因為當初你擬的我覺得事實上是不是很清楚我覺得畢竟過去凱恩會發生基本上就是我都認為你有做你認為我有做所以我這次為什麼覺得應該定在這邊既然好不容易要去做我們的託法"},{"start":5058.772,"end":5074.893,"text":"所以我當初在第五條的就是分兩項來寫那當然也是分兩項那我的寫法是依兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第56條第一項各款情形得運用適當的居家"},{"start":5075.493,"end":5096.369,"text":"托育人員照顧家外安置兒童並建立相關評估標準要評估標準跟照顧期間教育訓練訪視等機制然後第二項講的是前項的評估標準照顧期間教育訓練訪視跟其他應遵循四項辦法由中央主管機關定制所以我"},{"start":5097.271,"end":5111.864,"text":"堅持應該是兩項你們這寫了好像都講說要接受一定時數的教育訓練然後呢要安置適當的防治機制可是我們希望要有授權是後邊還要定一個比較細緻的那個一些準則在"},{"start":5114.062,"end":5134.427,"text":"所以跟你們寫法是完全事實上有很大的落差可是你們後來提的附帶決議給我還寫得比當初你們提出來的條文裡面還有講到一些標準在反正你們在這邊的時候反而只是講說要受一些教育訓練然後要有些訪視機制而已反而對於我覺得不夠完整性"},{"start":5137.321,"end":5162.049,"text":"是不是可以看一下我原來提出來的第五條的第一項的第八款跟第三項這個可以回到兒少全法處理嗎一併處理版本來看一下"},{"start":5163.059,"end":5187.721,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在建議的條文文字大體上和委員這邊提到原來第一項的部分基本上是大體上會比較相當那這邊唯一的差別是我們大概是沒有把兒少法的條次列出來那我們最主要的顧慮是因為以我們現在在整理中的兒少法的草案的版本這個未來條式一定會變"},{"start":5189.983,"end":5209.345,"text":"這個大家先跟委員報告一下我們是建議如果要用的話是不是調次可以不用列進來就是直接依照兒童法的規定就可以了那第二項這個委員所提到的評估標準方式這個是不是要去定辦法的部分那我們是會建議是說這個部分是不是"},{"start":5210.006,"end":5237.929,"text":"因為現在是已經在都有要已經是用在凱凱案發生之後我們現在是已經用要點那對於這個包括委員所關心的不管是遴選照顧期間的訪視或者是期前對保姆的評估這些都已經有相關我們定的已經開始在做那這個部分的話我們會建議是說是不是這個部分先可以不用先"},{"start":5239.77,"end":5260.692,"text":"如果是對於細節的部分的話是不是有一個空間我們還是用如果可以的話我們把搭配這個院板這邊行政院這邊建議的這個修正文字然後搭配一個附帶決議那把這個是將來在相關的規定要把細節的部分去把它訂出來是不是有這樣的一個空間以上"},{"start":5261.212,"end":5280.326,"text":"署長你這樣講那我就要來回應111年你們自己就有訂直轄縣市運用拘托人員家外安置的一個原則有人遵循了嗎否則不會112年發生凱凱案有人遵循了嗎110年你沒有訂啊也就是說你要運用"},{"start":5281.485,"end":5308.798,"text":"我們的保姆來作為你的安置的一個處所的時候裡面講得非常清楚明白的是你要找仿式輔導良好的那今天那兩位保姆是仿式輔導良好的從來都沒有收託過小孩的就直接安置了那為什麼可以讓他這樣做然後現在在司法還沒出來的時候我們就看到各方都說你有責任你有責任誰有責任然後一個說"},{"start":5309.96,"end":5326.429,"text":"安置機構有責任安置的縣市有責任一個是講說你收住養有責任一個講說居托中心有責任那到底誰責任反正孩子死了那誰要負責如果沒有人負責的話那孩子是冤死所以我為什麼覺得要做這樣的事情"},{"start":5326.849,"end":5343.215,"text":"因為在上凱凱案之前我就發現說事實上這樣子的安置本來就有問題因為過去不是沒有發生過直轄縣市的確不是收養童安置的時候他們自己安置景安跟一般安置的時候就有好幾起的這樣的案子"},{"start":5344.495,"end":5361.924,"text":"發生死亡案也有發生過啊可是有沒有去處理呢所以我說如果只是原則要點我覺得基本上沒有什麼樣的強制力然後另外一個我覺得今天機構也很容易說我是做收出養的那你的那個居托中心有管好保姆嗎那我就放在保姆家"},{"start":5363.274,"end":5389.087,"text":"那居頭中心覺得你事實上是專業機構你在做收出一樣你應該自己也會去管理你的保姆你要安置在這邊你會管理保姆吧結果通通兩邊都沒有管我按照我的原則我一年四例房就好另外一個是覺得說那我安置在應該是合格保姆都你審核過的合格保姆如果兩方這樣解釋最後犧牲的是孩子的性命所以我為什麼覺得今天到底放進去對"},{"start":5391.67,"end":5399.747,"text":"你們大概影響的是什麼我不知道就是說我知道你們那時候也到我們辦公室溝通要附帶決議我說我沒有辦法接受"},{"start":5400.666,"end":5428.452,"text":"那我覺得兩邊如果都放又有什麼關係呢就是說如果這邊訂如果看兒托法的人知道他在管理這個工作的人他知道他要這樣做如果在我們的兒權法訂的時候如果在處理安置的人他也要知道這個原理原則搞不好在做兒托的時候他不見得去看兒權法那兒權法的時候他在做的時候他有沒有看兒托法不確定所以最後就是兩邊都各自做各自的"},{"start":5429.002,"end":5442.939,"text":"最後真的是這樣是犧牲掉生命所以我會希望這邊還是要放以上如果是要放在這裡的話我們是不是要彰顯說其實保姆"},{"start":5445.768,"end":5470.684,"text":"这些保姆他作为家外安置这样的一个机制要被凸显出来可是这个里面可能会有一个评估上评估整个家庭是不是认适不适合还有房市因为房市机制跟评估机制这种东西评估标准房市其实是不是我们应该要放上去要主张说"},{"start":5471.444,"end":5499.621,"text":"要依儿少权法的规定来办理否则的话你在这里这样写写完以后那到底房市还有这个评估的机制标准那要怎么依循还要另外去定一个规定吗所以要放在这里如果要放进去的话我想应该要比照儿少权法的评估机制去做这个东西要配套进来啦"},{"start":5504.537,"end":5515.586,"text":"因為兒童權法沒有什麼評估機制啊否則我們現在問題會發生就是說居家托育人員的適任性那"},{"start":5516.943,"end":5540.362,"text":"你要評估他的整個家庭因為二次安置跟保母所以我才會說要再而且是特殊處遇的兒的孩子了他不是一般孩子所以我才會說還是要授權中央主管機關定辦法可是要在這邊去講清楚要講到評估標準照顧期間教育訓練方式跟其他應遵循事項要定這樣的辦法"},{"start":5544.392,"end":5572.465,"text":"因為我們這個家外安置基本上我們是支持性的我們是支援性的我們不是主責的我們是去支持支援而已對 可是今天新北就有所謂的護苗計畫大量的 只要事實上是景安一般安置都安置在保母家"},{"start":5573.226,"end":5601.705,"text":"只要六歲以下的都這樣因為基本上安置機構只有約納家園有收比較小的小孩整個新北就只有約納家園其他的沒有人收這麼幼兒要安置的所以幾乎都在保母家所以大部分安置機構都是在安置的是大孩子尤其是少年居多六歲以下幾乎沒有安置在可是六歲以下要安置安在哪裡像新北市就護苗計畫其他縣市我上次就跟"},{"start":5602.566,"end":5609.217,"text":"我想之前社交署我也講過幾乎很多縣市在一般安置跟景安只要六歲以下幾乎以"},{"start":5610.014,"end":5635.884,"text":"以那個保母家為多然後再來這次會發生的慨案就是事實上他事實上收出養在等待出養期間的這個過渡期六歲以下因為六歲以下也是比較容易收出養所以也幾乎大半的比例很高的比例兩個機構嘛因為兒婦聯盟跟立新他們自己不是不是不是機構因為過去有八個收出養機構只有"},{"start":5637.344,"end":5663.314,"text":"六個事實上他事實上是安置機構來做收支要其他兩個都那就只能事實上安置在保母家那既然保母家幾乎都是大家打的算盤都是想說六歲以下真的保母家比較適合可是那要不要特殊他24小時一年365天沒有第三方的監管是有風險的可是現在也沒辦法因為安置機構幾乎都沒有在做六歲以下的"},{"start":5665.259,"end":5686.073,"text":"好那现在有问题就是说基本上这一个支持性的资源那那几乎就是等于寄养家庭的概念了那寄养家庭大家在评估的时候比较严谨他会评估整个家庭但我们现在放在保姆家他"},{"start":5687.074,"end":5707.739,"text":"全家人沒有一併放進來被評估啊所以我們是不是說應該要如果是這種狀況的話應該要比照寄養家庭一樣去評估和仿視啦你懂我的意思嗎要表決了要表決我們去表一下"},{"start":5710.075,"end":5734.681,"text":"要表決委員離場之前我們先報告簡單報告一下好 我們要去表決一下我們原則上接受我們在這段時間我們趕快把條文先擬出來等一下委員回來我們可以給委員來做一個討論先休息一下 不好意思"},{"start":7596.547,"end":7607.355,"text":"多頂禮加一粒 你就加補兩粒不可以吃一粒 怕弄到腦袋上去氣氣酷酷 氣氣酷酷說話比較文雅好 我們繼續協商 謝謝"},{"start":7613.075,"end":7632.754,"text":"主席非常感谢岳勤文对于我们第五条的一个建议我先这么说因为一个是我们现在目前一个是托育的逻辑那我知道岳勤文非常关心的是安置的问题但是为了要解决安置然后现在"},{"start":7634.958,"end":7656.712,"text":"來放到這邊是不是有我說兩個邏輯可能還是不太一樣啦那我跟委員報告現在就是說能不能就是我們現在目前我們現在兒托法這個部分處理完之後我跟委員保證現在接下來我們接下來就是兒照選法那我們現在是不是可以還是"},{"start":7657.97,"end":7664.914,"text":"你這個部分我一定保證我在未來耳哨全法去處理因為我們這個會期處理完之後接下來我要啟動的就是耳哨全法所以你這個我一定會把它放進來因為"},{"start":7676.616,"end":7695.004,"text":"因為真的是而且我跟委員報告以前我在台中我做的小學校長你知道有時候在地方政府這邊托育的部分跟安置的部分有時候他們有時候是分有時候是在一個同一個課有時候是有在不同嘛那你現在就是說為了要解決安置的問題那現在"},{"start":7698.685,"end":7718.122,"text":"现在又把它放到托育这边来会不会我认为整个可能在处理上它会不会还是会有一些实际上的一些问题肯请委员是不是咱想想看我就很好奇如果这样那为什么以前"},{"start":7720.147,"end":7744.608,"text":"這麼多年來安置都安置在保母家這個不是單一我說過去你們也坐任各地方政府這樣做啊一直以來那你們安置到底做了什麼事情沒有啊我先講比較現實的一個問題就是說你看如果當時安置真的有做好明明知道今天全台灣"},{"start":7745.879,"end":7774.109,"text":"手指頭都可以數得出來六歲以下的安置沒有在安置機構因為安置機構你們自己也知道安置機構幾乎少到可憐的在安置別家六歲以下小孩那你們都一直知道這常態怎麼會是今天要來談這個東西的時候你跟我講說那我們可是這你安置在保母家已經是常態了那過去的確兒少權法沒有兒托法的時候兒少權法只有"},{"start":7775.49,"end":7802.944,"text":"26條跟26條之一在規範保姆要授權執法那保姆的強度不強那保姆現在一直在保姆還是要納管的狀態裡邊我們現在把它弄成兒托法的時候那難道你今天大量用它這邊不要有任何規範嗎當然需要 保護主席那個也跟委員委員你了解我們的CRC的精神其實基本上還是兒童最佳利益所以我們現在如果萬一發生安置的話我們的順序一定都是"},{"start":7803.524,"end":7829.505,"text":"这一个受暴的这一个小朋友他的这一个亲属嘛然后接下来才是技嘉然后再团家然后最后真的没办法交到机构那我们现在恐怕也会担心就是说你现在目前把这边这样设下去之后老实说会有一个反而会有一个吸引效果吸引你现在我们现在是希望能够尽量还是以还是以这一个到亲属这边结果他现在就送到"},{"start":7830.989,"end":7833.384,"text":"會送到安置的那個家庭去"},{"start":7834.864,"end":7864.224,"text":"會不會會不會有這個問題所以次長因為我們孩子越來越少安置同事越來越成長的那個狀態所以你自己你們自己真的有清楚的去確定各地方政府怎麼對景安跟一般安置安置尤其是六歲以下所以上次也要你們調查始終我也是沒有拿到數據說到底你們六歲以下小的安置的狀態個性是到底安置在保母家的狀態又是什麼我不是只有要覺得要處理事實上是收出養"},{"start":7865.685,"end":7879.76,"text":"大部分事實上是地方政府幾乎很多六歲以下小孩都安置在我們的保母家 早期還有放在幼兒園幼兒園也不是一個很好的長時間生活的方式在那邊居住啊 因為以前桃園就這樣"},{"start":7881.516,"end":7901.835,"text":"六歲以下小孩都安置在幼兒園那你現在就是說那我想問說一直對放這邊有困難可是現在今天兒少全法我覺得一直以來兒少全法一直都沒有談這個問題我說今天安置在保母家不是此時此刻也不是凱萊案發生的時候才有這種狀況歷年來就已經是這樣子從大概"},{"start":7903.874,"end":7912.017,"text":"我不知道有沒有記錯90年民國90年來以來一直以來就是讓地方政府就一直是在放孩子事實上在保母家"},{"start":7912.625,"end":7933.017,"text":"那如果這樣的話那這邊沒有強度那你那邊有一些強度那如果可以做早就可以做我跟你講也不用等到兒少如果真的認真覺得這問題兒少全罰也不用等兒少全罰大步伐要修如果這麼在意的話應該早就先修了幾條先進來不是嗎那你現在要兒少全罰我也不知道等到什麼時候那我只是想問"},{"start":7934.745,"end":7954.87,"text":"這個中間現在還是有空窗期因為你那邊也沒修這邊又沒有的時候你一直在講辦法所以我說111年你們自己本來111年7月14號你們就訂出來一個我剛剛講的直轄縣市運用居托人員來家外安置的那個原則有沒有 有啊可是112年怎麼還是發生呢"},{"start":7956.83,"end":7982.398,"text":"所以我才会觉得说那如果不要你要能说服我不是一直跟我讲说这会不会跌床加屋那边有那个未来要定我听你们这样对话以后有几个想法我稍微厘清一下就是说保姆成为安置家庭应该是最后不得不他基本上应该是寄养家庭那一种去处理"},{"start":7982.958,"end":8010.268,"text":"那一般而言保姆作为资源性支持性的去收这些安置的儿童他是非常耗费心力的一整天的24小时的所以他整个心力都在这个孩子身上其实是几乎应该很困难可以再收托一般的托儿那在这种状况里面事实上我们也应该理解这个支持性的保姆他应该是"},{"start":8011.989,"end":8032.219,"text":"像他的安置家庭一樣的要被評估他整個家庭都要被評估而不是說像我們居托中心一般去訪視那保姆這種收托這種安置的話他要類似機養家庭就不要用保姆管理的機制"},{"start":8032.959,"end":8053.995,"text":"所以也不要再收一般的托兒甚至在照顧的職能上跟一般收托一般的托兒是不一樣照顧的職能其實是跟一般保母差很多所以我們是希望說應該寄養兒童的保母跟一般保母要分流來管理"},{"start":8055.276,"end":8079.605,"text":"但是呢我们月勤一直在讲的问题就是说你们都毫无章法大家都直接交给保姆也不是寄养家庭寄养家庭不够大家就交给保姆但保姆目前都没有任何的配套也没有任何的监督的机制可是地方政府就直接丢给他们"},{"start":8080.986,"end":8107.146,"text":"那所以这是一个问题没有解决没有被解决他才要一直不断说纳管进来可是纳管进来他的整个纳管的机制评估访视监督的其实强度要比照寄养家庭了所以是应该是在寄养家庭的那一个法律的规范里面把爸母纳进去"},{"start":8108.127,"end":8131.218,"text":"可是因为你们又代务职责一直没有放进去所以变成两边他怕漏接所以在这里其实我不管就是说你要放到未来的寄养家庭儿少权法或是放在这里但我们都希望说收托安置儿童的保姆他对保护儿童"},{"start":8132.416,"end":8149.014,"text":"保護寄養兒童來講從這個角度來看的話他應該是要重演去好好的評估那管理的機制也不能用居托中心這一套仿事案管理都不行要另外立是應該是要這樣去思考請委員"},{"start":8153.939,"end":8175.601,"text":"我想这一条就是刚刚已经讨论蛮多的我的看法比较是就是说这些如果是已经是政府机构你要另外再找保姆来安置儿童的你本来就应该要另外一套更严格的标准就像你的寄养一样你有一套标准你今天要把它放在保姆家你就不可能是跟一般"},{"start":8176.707,"end":8205.55,"text":"家長放在保母家他每天還會接送回來的孩子一樣那應該是過去你們在這一塊的這個做法上面就是不夠嚴謹而且讓各縣市就是大家各自有一套不一樣的做法你們也沒有一個很嚴格的監督跟管理那我們如果按照整個法令的他的那個邏輯性來看的話今天我們這邊談的是托育專法所以他比較是"},{"start":8207.191,"end":8231.763,"text":"針對一般性的兒童這邊來做管理的就是你所有的理念架構其實都是這樣子的那至於會是經由政府或者是機構再安置到保母家的他應該是另外一個你們應該好好去研議那月秦委員剛剛他講那麼多就是他講出來是你們現在做不好的地方他是希望這邊放的就是這個法可能會比較快過所以希望優先放在這邊"},{"start":8232.423,"end":8250.289,"text":"他對你們是沒有信心的就是你們現在之前也不管然後如果是未來的這個兒權法可能又曠日廢時那你們必須回應讓委員知道說那你們這段期間如果你是要是未來在兒權法的話那你這段期間做了什麼強化不能在這一個"},{"start":8251.489,"end":8270.805,"text":"這邊又過了沒有力然後你的兒權法又遙遙無期然後這樣的一個空窗期那到底你作為主管機關你們中央主管機關你們會做什麼來保證這段期間你們對於這類型的孩子他的這個所有的監督管理是到位的然後再去接軌未來的兒權法的這個"},{"start":8273.767,"end":8301.096,"text":"修法我覺得你們這個講清楚嗎那當然你剛講的有你的道理在就是說我們是在修額頭轉法所以放在這邊可能有比較不適切的地方我想剛剛淑芬也有提出同樣的一個看法我的看法其實也是但是你們必須你們的做法月請委員提的是單行就是說你這樣的一個空窗請這邊又不利你另外一個法又那麼慢那你這段時間你到底可以做什麼來保證"},{"start":8304.051,"end":8331.459,"text":"可以這樣好不好 因為已經11點19因為我們後面還有很多 要不要先保留一下我講最後一句現在你們訂了直轄市縣市政府運用居家托育人員照顧家外安置兒童的處理原則你目前這個原則也訂得太鬆了你們其實光是這個原則回去也應該要修一下你們應該要針對整個家庭去做評估而不是只有保姆做評估"},{"start":8332.349,"end":8351.666,"text":"那也跟阿憲說是不是收留安置保護寄養兒童的這個個案是不是跟一般托兒要在一起那沒有的話你要不要給人家更多錢好了 想一下 我們這條先不留 好不好到最後再來討論 繼續審查第30條"},{"start":8357.841,"end":8379.026,"text":"來 請進機關說明第30條就是有關在托育機構的影像監視設備的管理目前各個委員的版本大概對於要做監視而且基本上要上傳到地方主管機關的一個網際網路的儲存系統的部分"},{"start":8379.706,"end":8399.701,"text":"大體上各委員的版本都相近在之前在委員會審查的時候最後針對行政院版的第三項這個中央主管機關對於直轄市縣市去建置這個系統的時候的補助的方式這邊的話我們是有考慮到說由於最近有一個"},{"start":8403.123,"end":8421.731,"text":"這個政府財政的部分那我們是建議是不是有可能在對於這個因補助的部分有沒有機會調調整為得補助那這邊我們有一個建議另外那針對這本條第四項的部分那我們也參考了各委員的版本對於這個將來在對於"},{"start":8425.672,"end":8452.095,"text":"托育機構所監視下來的影像怎麼樣去抽查的部分在授權事項上面能夠去把它增補進去能夠有一個更明確的管理我們大概在這邊做了一個簡單做了一個相關的處理 以上我們建議的條文的文字就在今天有提供給委員的資料裡面請各位委員參閱 以上好 先請陳昭志委再請王育民委員"},{"start":8453.6,"end":8478.109,"text":"謝謝主席那衛福部既然有這個就是監管的一個美意但是這個針對第30條我想除了剛剛就是說上一次我們討論到經費編列的問題之外那外界目前有一些在實務面的一些疑慮我是請我想請這個衛福部能夠就這些疑慮就是把它稍微澄清跟說明我的重點在這裡大概有三件事情麻煩就是說"},{"start":8480.07,"end":8493.295,"text":"次長或署長等一下再做一個清楚的說明讓大家把這些疑慮能夠放下來第一個就是外界質疑去年12月底因為南韓不是發生了駭客嗎入侵了12萬台的攝影機他擷取了私密的影像剪輯成數百部的性剝削的影片"},{"start":8500.437,"end":8525.515,"text":"販售到海外的非法平台這個優利是存在所以對於資安跟影像外洩的風險請問情政機關會如何在制度跟技術這個面就確保我們國內不要發生類似的這個資安跟影像外洩的風險這是第一點等一下再麻煩兩位看哪一位來再做一個說明讓大家安心那第二個就是說監視露營的設置區要怎麼擺"},{"start":8527.016,"end":8553.28,"text":"才能夠兼顧安全管理的同時也避免拍攝到兒童私密畫面例如有一些家長也反映說日常照護室譬如換尿布的地方那如何去架設錄影機就目前第一線工作人員的反應就是說部分地方政府好像對機構的要求有引發一些疑慮就是說拍攝過於接近私密部位的疑慮就有些地方政府他有這些疑慮"},{"start":8553.68,"end":8573.23,"text":"那這個部分我們要不要做一個規範這是第二個部分那第三個就無論這是兒童法的監管或是之前處理私密影像犯罪證據資料庫都有一個重要的問題就是外界擔心我想我們其他委員應該也會要了解這個部分到底誰有權限去調閱或複製影像"},{"start":8575.071,"end":8591.562,"text":"那這些細節管理目前條文內容大部分條文委員都覺得說同意交由主管機關來訂定那當然是OK的交由主管機關來訂定但是我們希望是不是能夠說明的稍微清楚為了確保兒少權益跟避免權限的濫用未來主席上有哪些人員"},{"start":8592.583,"end":8621.546,"text":"或單位可以調閱複製或使用影像那會不會做分級的授權記錄跟集合的機制才能夠防範公務人員不當的調閱因為我為什麼要講這件事呢因為不管是最近發生像高雄市衛生局何前執密他藉用植物之騙輕易取得並且以此作為威脅兒少的工具他發生了這件事他發生了或是之前健保署主密竊取國人的健保資料尤其是情資人員資料賣到對岸去"},{"start":8622.367,"end":8642.386,"text":"那這個總統行政管理上發生問題我想讓外界的擔憂就是說他找不到一個切確答案所以我是不是先麻煩就是說我是希望說這個說明就讓這個不要讓監管的美意變成一些民憂或民怨基本上就是說尊重你們的要來管理但這三件事情是不是麻煩衛福部來說清楚謝謝"},{"start":8648.214,"end":8668.331,"text":"謝謝謝謝趙執委員的的垂詢那針對這個趙執委員所問到的部分我想大概針對大概簡單的來說一個說明第一個資安跟資安的部分那當然這樣一個資安將來是儲存到是一個只要是縣市去指定的一個網際網路儲存空間那其實我們我們"},{"start":8670.753,"end":8699.594,"text":"社交組這邊其實先前在為了要準備這樣的事項的時候我們對於國內相關的資安技術跟有這樣去一個比較妥善去能夠去保管甚至在傳輸的過程裡面能夠適度的加密然後儲存之後進去能夠順著網路能夠進去的防火牆跟資安的管理的部分相關有能力的技術以及可能潛在的一些國內相關可能比較"},{"start":8700.214,"end":8718.387,"text":"安全性比較好的機房等等我們大概都做了一些先做了一些這個 survey那我們去了解一下相關的資訊的能力的管理的部分那這些訊息大概在整理之後我們都會提供給縣市政府那供縣市政府在未來去選擇相關在不管在這個"},{"start":8719.748,"end":8740.515,"text":"廠商的領選然後在資安設計的時候怎麼樣去做相關的影像加密傳輸過程裡面的加密的部分那這邊我們都會提供給縣市政府來做一個完整的參考那第二個是在影像設置的鏡頭設置的部分那其實這個是現行的條文已經是要求所有的托育機構它自己"},{"start":8741.789,"end":8762.562,"text":"已经要做监视的动作只是要没有要上传现行的规定就自己要保存那我们在现行规定里面就已经规定了它这个要装设的区域包括了在户外像出入口对外的窗户走道那室内的公共区域那基本上它的画面要采取什么样的"},{"start":8763.422,"end":8785.917,"text":"的一個畫面例如說彩色還是是不是要彩色然後這個攝影的角度要全面那當然大家所關心到的這個因為監視的過程可能對於這個受託小朋友的這個這個敏感的部位那我們是可以將來在後面的在這個規定將來在後續處理的時候我們可以做一個比較"},{"start":8788.698,"end":8815.627,"text":"做一個比較精準的規範那不要太去針對太特定的因為這樣的一個錄像的目的其實就是一個比較全面性活動的資料的一個保存那不要過度的針對特定人特定角度或者是特定的部位去做這樣的一個攝錄影的動作這個我們可以來做一定的處理那最後一個是針對未來的調閱跟全線的部分"},{"start":8816.147,"end":8842.495,"text":"那這個我們會分成大概在兩個部分一個是第一個對於儲存已經儲存到網際網路由縣市管理的部分那它一定要一定會有一個明確的市由那誰才有權限那在甚至在儲存的過程在調閱的過程中是要透過什麼樣的程序有沒有什麼樣的人能夠看等等那這個部分的話我們現在都"},{"start":8843.915,"end":8869.849,"text":"在先前大概都有提到我們會做一個比較嚴格的管理那這樣的儲存現在儲存在這個網際網路的部分基本上我們現在規定的就是儲存而不是說上去了以後隨便都可以去監看所以這個我們也希望跟外界做一個說明就是並不是有人在雲端隨時去看影像其實我們的設計就不是這個樣子那它就是一個影像檔案"},{"start":8870.729,"end":8899.728,"text":"存到雲端之後那有一定的室友才可以去調閱那對於調閱的事項調閱的有能夠申請的人那申請的流程這邊我們未來都會在這個授權的辦法裡面跟縣市跟相關的團體去經過謹慎的討論之後來做相關的律定簡單做以上說明謝謝主席請允許我跟他稍微再互動一下因為他說明的東西那個那你剛剛第一個有關治安的影響外洩風險我覺得你們是可以先"},{"start":8901.149,"end":8920.541,"text":"測試一下 然後找高手想辦法駭入 當然這個測試的內容是ok因為你這個部分 因為畢竟別的國家發生了它畢竟發生了 你雖然說你們盡力做盡力做盡力做但是我希望是說用不同的方式去檢驗你說的東西 因為這個還是一個"},{"start":8922.908,"end":8940.508,"text":"幾個大疑慮裡面當中一定會有這個疑慮那第二個你剛剛已經明確的規範說你會給地方政府有一個明確的規範那會去稽查或稽核嗎就是說你規範了他是不是這樣設置那那個位置等等是否恰當你們會有人再去做確認跟稽核嗎"},{"start":8942.31,"end":8964.017,"text":"就是這個部分因為規範是規範嘛規範跟實務現在我講的都是實務面嘛就是說既然貴婦往這個方向做那我們實務面上你是不是會這個規範能不能落實會不會去做確認跟這個檢查那第三個我再確認一下你說現在只有儲存的功能嗎現在沒有調閱的機制嗎"},{"start":8966.681,"end":8988.856,"text":"就是說有調閱機制但是你要再去訂但是因為像高雄市衛生局植蜜也夠大我就不知道說你這個全縣都很大健保署也是主蜜啊也是主蜜啊這個剛剛我提的一個是那個威脅兒少的這個案子一個是勤之人的健康使整個送到對岸去"},{"start":8989.856,"end":9010.371,"text":"他的位置很高啊所以這個東西到底在什麼情況下要啟動我想還是讓國人瞭解 當然是由你們去制定但是國人的疑慮是有他的原因的謝謝 謝謝主席對 王育文先說 你再一步回應"},{"start":9012.014,"end":9027.576,"text":"我剛有舉手我先講完你再一邊回應那個關於第30條這個是新立的法令而且看起來中央主管機關的要求其實也蠻嚴格的那我是覺得什麼事情都是權責相符"},{"start":9028.477,"end":9045.446,"text":"這一條如果要執行下去剛剛陳昭政委員提到有些資安的問題其實是要非常到位的那資安要到位事實上這涉及到技術也涉及到設備也涉及到後續相關人員的管理"},{"start":9045.886,"end":9061.075,"text":"那這一些通通都是需要經費的我過去在台中市政府擔任副市長的時候事實上也發現不同縣市之間本來在對與做這一些資訊設備的儲存跟應用會跟錢有很大的關係"},{"start":9062.176,"end":9090.836,"text":"如果今天有一個縣市他的財政比較困難坦白講他設備也會比較低階他也不會有什麼專人來做這件事情所以這件事情我的意見就是一定是要一條邊你所有的規格你資訊設備的規格然後你的人員然後你的治安的設備條件這個是一條邊的沒有縣市差異化沒有說你這個縣市有錢多做一點這個縣市沒有錢就會少做一點"},{"start":9091.636,"end":9119.824,"text":"所以我就要講到根本的原來你們的法條最原始的版本就是為什麼是說中央主管機關應補助地方因為由你們統一就是我怎麼要求地方就應該怎麼做因為我所有的規格都是我開的我就是開這些你就要照辦那你這樣才能達到品質品質大家是一樣的安全也是一樣的我要講的還有安全那你現在任意性的把它修改成德"},{"start":9120.524,"end":9129.184,"text":"我跟你說會亂的套就會變成是各縣市你有些要求沒錢的我跟你講做不到就做不到了就像這次營養午餐"},{"start":9130.049,"end":9156.997,"text":"各縣市有能力的就是跟進那很抱歉像嘉義縣這麼窮的地方就是沒有跟不了那以後你這個得以下去之後你如果是這種不是一個一筆預算由中央到地方而且是一致性的補助的話你會變成什麼有能力的像台北市財政比較好的他沒有問題我就講像嘉義縣那麼窮的他就會有問題"},{"start":9158.237,"end":9177.753,"text":"那你補他還是不補他那你將來的原則是什麼就是說很窮的我就補給你嘛那其他又來跟你argue說那我們是中等的我就變成是不三不四像我們現在很多就是一下子偏鄉一下子什麼然後有一些就是中間他說我的財力沒那麼差也沒那麼好你要不要給"},{"start":9178.976,"end":9201.885,"text":"我覺得那是徒增困擾才化法那是另外一回事那個現在大家都還在談但這邊法的精神我們該怎麼去要求地方政府要他們到位那就全責相符你絕對可以去要求但是你要給相同的資源所以30條我的意見還是應該回到最原始的原來行政院跟各位提出來的版本就是"},{"start":9202.405,"end":9227.718,"text":"中央主管機關應補助直轄市因為你這樣一個因你也扛起了預算的責任所以你在監督各縣市你有底氣而且你也敢強力要求因為我開的規格就是這樣我資源都給你你還不做那你當然可以好好去查不然你有什麼你就是就是說我中央都是來監督你但是你不給資源然後什麼不提供然後什麼都一直要求"},{"start":9228.427,"end":9250.933,"text":"我覺得中央跟地方本來就是一個合作啦我想次長也擔任過地方的局長你也知道中央地方本來就是一個合作那中央做得到的我覺得就應該去到位更何況這一條現在很多業者大反彈還在那邊開記者會對不對那你如果要幫助地方政府好辦事你資源要到位啊他還要去幫你去溝通那些業者"},{"start":9252.173,"end":9274.876,"text":"就是要他們來配合所以不用在這上面就是把原來的因改成德啦我覺得這樣兒托專法大家都想要讓我們托育的品質提升那這個條文也是去確保孩子的安全那我覺得就是讓事情順利會比較好啦那如果主管機關不同意的話我就會喊保留30條保留好 謝謝王正旭委員"},{"start":9276.96,"end":9301.691,"text":"我們晚了可能要到辯論了 請說那今天我跟大家報告一下就是說當然30條經過強化以後似乎有改善不過我們還是會擔心有一些還是不足的地方所以我們才在第四跟第五項追加了相關的一些期待能夠讓大家共同討論以後能夠把它納進來"},{"start":9302.631,"end":9322.731,"text":"那我之所以會這樣的話因為我們知道所有的這些影像的保存對這一群兒童來講特別的重要因為他們根本平常是不會講話的也沒有辦法表達自己那其實我們也知道在之前的相關的辦法裡面就已經規定30天的保存"},{"start":9323.311,"end":9344.882,"text":"可是呢在112年社家署就有發布了一份報告就是為了外界懷疑托嬰中心監視的部分的資安外洩的問題他那個時候有統計在114年到112年裡面不當對待114件還有在幾乎相近的時間有一些額略的問題"},{"start":9345.882,"end":9361.791,"text":"那在114件裡面監視設備因人為操作不當或損毀的10件那在例行積查裡面發現受到影響需要改善的有31件這代表說在執行過程裡面即使我們訂了要求辦法"},{"start":9362.731,"end":9382.043,"text":"即使現在入法了很有可能還是會有一些無法執行到位的地方所以我們會在第四項跟第五項希望能夠定期的追蹤相關的這些設備儲存的問題主要還是儲存他應該要知道他有沒有定期的把這些內容放到這個雲端裡面來"},{"start":9383.504,"end":9412.633,"text":"另外就是希望能夠有更完整的讓這個兒童的法定代理人能夠去調閱相關這些攝影錄音的資料因為像我剛剛所提到的因為這是後來唯一能夠讓大家確認這個誰是在這個事件裡面造成的影響這個所以我們才特別在第四項第五項裡面把這個問題凸顯出來希望能夠入法"},{"start":9413.473,"end":9433.828,"text":"即使原本的這些內容已經有部分的cover可是還是相對是不足的所以才希望說經過大家在確認在討論能不能夠也把這個第四跟第五項我們增添的部分能夠納為入法的一個內容的機會以上的報告 謝謝"},{"start":9437.839,"end":9460.31,"text":"要不要請 請先再做統一回應好的 針對這個剛才趙執委員然後王正訓委員剛才提到這個在食物面操作的部分那第一個當然在資安的部分我們這個在資安的要求上面一定會從嚴來做相關的處理那剛才也許是我這個"},{"start":9461.551,"end":9482.051,"text":"口頭上面講得不夠精準我們基本上是表達的是說個別的托育機構的影像上傳之後他是把這個影像的檔案上傳到這個網際網路指定的處所去儲存但是在這個過程中間並不會發生說有人直接在上面去直接監視的這樣的狀況"},{"start":9484.173,"end":9512.905,"text":"那當然這樣儲存了以後就是目的就是為了在這個必要的時候能夠去做一個有一個證據的保全所以當然在調閱的時候一定會要有一個明確的事由有一個完整的流程那這個部分的話具體的細節那都會在透過最後一項的授權的事項裡面未來在授權的辦法裡面我們會做一個清楚的律定這個部分我們一定會來操作"},{"start":9513.445,"end":9534.179,"text":"那王委員剛才所提到的這個在抽查的部分這也是我們在這也是希望能夠回應到委員剛才所提到的部分所以這個有關抽查的部分我們現在在這個授權的事項裡面那我們是寫的確實寫的相對稍微精簡一點那就是針對抽查的部分我們會去把它納進來好那這個在前端"},{"start":9536.921,"end":9558.069,"text":"它只要錄影的時候抽查就能夠從源頭去確定它的監視錄影的狀況然後去抽查那當然這個上傳到雲端的時候在雲端保存期間雲端的資料的狀態那當然這個也會在雲端管理的內容裡面我們會來做一定的相關的來做處理"},{"start":9559.029,"end":9586.721,"text":"至於王委員先前也有在我不確定是修正動議還是附帶決議裡面有提到就是有一些叫延長保存時間的部分這個部分的話我們是建議可以用我們會建議是不是在條文裡面就不特別寫例外是怎麼樣處理但是透過附帶決議這個有狀況要延長保存期間我們可以未來在授權的辦法裡面我們把這個要延長的部分我們都一併納進來這個我們可以"},{"start":9588.302,"end":9610.129,"text":"完全可以配合來做所以條文裡面就是先維持原條文可是會用附帶決議來處理是是那我們很擔心就是包括這個期限因為你現在是至少保存30天嘛那你30天也許還有在程序在處理中是是"},{"start":9614.855,"end":9644.041,"text":"了解 OK 好好好 尊重那個應得怎麼辦不是應得顧台灣喔聽好你是要應還要得要得還要應不是啦 不是尊重我啦看你啦 人家大陸說你如果要得他就要飆你也真沒堅持"},{"start":9651.092,"end":9652.173,"text":"我們休息一下我們先走了"},{"start":9921.482,"end":9921.803,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":10831.169,"end":10831.711,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":10872.967,"end":10890.384,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":11144.847,"end":11145.348,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":11266.844,"end":11267.169,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":11970.564,"end":11970.949,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":12324.366,"end":12350.657,"text":"我就是要在這裡問大家的意見 要不然你坐在那裡 誰誰人誰人都要處理啊誰誰人要坐在那裡好了來我們現在12點26分剛剛討論到第30條給曾詠歌委員意見看到怎樣 要審到什麼時候 都沒有意見 來我是建議我們下禮拜二下禮拜二再繼續啊禮拜二下禮拜二"},{"start":12351.618,"end":12370.701,"text":"院會應該沒有表決事項了沒有動員禮拜二或三都可以沒有 禮拜三、四是省省選法那禮拜二 下禮拜二這樣比較整齊不要招來招去 總來總去就一個完整的時段"},{"start":12372.472,"end":12385.998,"text":"好 再擺 沒關係這樣現在我們今天是不是到這裡就好了30條處理好30條處理好就好了因為其他的黨好啦 那就30條30條好OK啦就說30條處理完處理到30條就好了啦好"},{"start":12394.739,"end":12419.266,"text":"OK那我可以再繼續發言嗎可以啦可以啦剛剛30條我們有看到最新的部分就是前陣子大家討論就是把那個德改成英嘛那其實我們也一直希望能夠或者是把那個檢查跟抽查不太一樣啦那個抽查的意思是要看現場有東西嗎"},{"start":12422.267,"end":12442.663,"text":"檢查是說送到雲端的資料有人去注意按照需要送上來沒有所以如果能夠在抽雜之前也再加兩個字檢查那可以更完備啦這樣就不至於擔心說在處理過程裡面造成什麼樣的疏漏應該就讓整個"},{"start":12444.804,"end":12469.789,"text":"在這30條的部分可以更為完整啦 不然是不是再麻煩市長這個可以提起一下抽查改檢查是不是是不是檢查然後頓耗再抽查這樣子兩個意思不一樣來請說明尊重委員的那個提議把增加檢查頓耗抽查機制好謝謝"},{"start":12473.103,"end":12498.419,"text":"好 那所以就得稿的因了喔 對不對因為剛才這個我也知道這是大家都關心的但是剛才現在那個財力等級這還是不一樣我是不是建議說因市財力等級所以你問他要怎麼改沒關係 因市財力等級因市財力等級"},{"start":12505.299,"end":12532.142,"text":"不要緊 你給他說一下 處長你先說完 後面要處理我意思是說真的還是 我說得很清楚台北市這次的財務發料是400萬養的你中央去補助這種的這我覺得我是不太能夠接受啦好所以我的意思是說是不是家就是因事財力等級補助這樣"},{"start":12534.755,"end":12542.426,"text":"應試財力等級補助中央主管機關應試財力等級補助之下現施主管機關是不是這樣對啦 現在我們有財力分級啊你現在看不看得到"},{"start":12548.68,"end":12575.894,"text":"沒關係啦你不用緊張啦 你不用緊張 我這樣啦不然就這樣 你們把文字修出來啦我們一樣這條就是先保留先保留啦 這樣啦好 這樣 今天要補充嗎沒有齁 不然就休息啦 來好 我們這個相關保留案尚未處理完略那則起繼續審查 現在散會 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我們現在進行國事論壇每位委員發言三分鐘首先我們請張志倫委員發言 蔓越真委員請準備院長 各位同仁 各位媒體朋友大家早安 大家好本席今天站在這裡仍然以"},{"start":1775.939,"end":1794.413,"text":"沉重與嚴肅的心情針對當前中華民國憲政體制上所面臨到的嚴峻挑戰向賴清德總統與執政團隊提出深切的提醒與呼籲面對在野黨提出的彈劾案賴清德總統居然還若無其事地辯稱"},{"start":1795.424,"end":1823.017,"text":"自己不貪不娶為何要被彈劾這種說法似乎還對彈劾的意涵僅僅限於貪瀆的層次我們要告訴賴總統錯誤的政策比貪污還可怕而摧毀國家體制影響比貪污案更為深遠首先賴政府創下了拒絕附屬的二直先例將神聖的附屬權轉化為一票否決權完全"},{"start":1824.181,"end":1842.112,"text":"曲解了憲法一旨率性認為只要不合黨意就技術性不執行立法院三讀通過的法律這不僅是閹割立法權更是公然將行政權凌駕於法律上讓台灣一步一步走向行政獨裁的險境"},{"start":1842.833,"end":1863.166,"text":"若行政部門因立場不同變技術性的手段讓立法院通過三讀通過的法律無法執行這無疑是行政與立法責任政治與權力的制衡狀況的打破本席擔憂此例一開未來行政權將缺乏有效監督這並非民主之福"},{"start":1864.144,"end":1882.926,"text":"其次 關於憲政機關的互動本席認為應該回歸互相尊重的基礎及其執政黨頻繁使用釋憲來處理國會的決議雖然釋憲是憲法賦予的權力但若視為常態性的政治攻防的工具"},{"start":1884.134,"end":1909.779,"text":"恐導致司法政治化的疑慮特別是在大法官的提名與運作上社會大眾所期待的是一個超越黨派獨立公正的司法守護者若提名人選或法庭運作未能充分展現其獨立性甚至引發為特定立場來護航的質疑這將嚴重損害司法的公正性"},{"start":1910.439,"end":1935.255,"text":"司法是社会正义的最后一道防线我们不愿意看到这个防线因政治纷扰而产生裂痕追根究底我们期盼赖总统能将目光从短期的政治攻防转化为国家长远的治理若当前国家资源过度消耗在朝野攻防与宪政争议真正受苦的是"},{"start":1935.802,"end":1964.015,"text":"期待民生與經濟發展的黎民百姓為了維護中華民國憲政體制的穩定讓國家回歸到正軌本席呼籲朝野立委應支持彈劾案終結這場毀憲亂政的鬧劇給台灣民主社會一個更好的法治社會謝謝張志文委員發言國務委員會我們現在熱情歡迎來自新北市永和區"},{"start":1966.431,"end":1973.584,"text":"鼎熙國小的同學們 我們掌聲歡迎大家接下來我們請麥玉珍委員請發言"},{"start":1980.848,"end":2006.438,"text":"主席親愛的家人大家好今天我要向賴清德總統提出一個嚴肅來自人民最真誠的申訴政府對立不是人民的錯依法行政是政府最基本的責任在2017年政府宣布成立少子化對策辦公室"},{"start":2006.998,"end":2026.785,"text":"宣稱要面對國家危機但8年過去了辦公室從未真正的成立只留下新聞與口號如今要提出兒少及家庭支持署卻未對過去的跳票負責這不是"},{"start":2027.425,"end":2043.88,"text":"治理国家而是反复消耗人民的信任更严重的是少子化现在是新住民解决新二代逐年增加发展署"},{"start":2044.861,"end":2074.279,"text":"已經立法在12月10日三讀通過法例明確規定三個月內必須成立依法今年三月三入然而內政部卻在115年度總預算中完全未編列相關經費還指控立法院因預算未審而無法成立新住民發展署的"},{"start":2074.88,"end":2085.058,"text":"推卸責任我要請教大家政府可以顛倒是非扭曲事實嗎還是行政怠惰"},{"start":2086.549,"end":2114.786,"text":"還是濫用職權打壓人民欺騙社會新住民不是政治籌碼更不是可以犧牲的族群新住民和所有國民一樣承擔家庭經濟面對掃紙花的壓力與恐懼只希望依法設立一個值得信賴在我們最無助的時候直接求救的窗口"},{"start":2115.626,"end":2136.469,"text":"有那麼困難嗎這不是族群的需求而已也因應少子化對策的是新住民我們更期待新住民能發揮專長為台灣貢獻成為政府解決社會及家庭的問題重要夥伴"},{"start":2137.189,"end":2164.827,"text":"是必須的政策為何不落實在此我要誠懇呼應賴清德總統人民是你的家人不是敵人新住民是台灣人不是外人要求政府依法行政要國家回到正常運轉展現領導者的智慧與承擔守護孩子的未來與人民的幸福"},{"start":2169.66,"end":2194.609,"text":"好 謝謝蔓玉珍委員的發言 謝謝接下來我們請登記最後一位 林倩琦委員請發言院長 捕會同仁 媒體朋友 全國民眾 大家好"},{"start":2195.908,"end":2208.672,"text":"理性能源治理深化國家韌性本席今天要討論的是台海情勢當中經常被過度簡化卻深刻影響戰略判斷的關鍵因素能源國際輿論認為"},{"start":2211.733,"end":2231.375,"text":"美国只要掌握了委内瑞拉跟伊朗的石油出口就足以重创中共当局的三分之一的能源供给然而实际情况是中共的原油进口结构呈现高度分散的情况主要的来源还是集中在中东与俄罗斯合成的比重"},{"start":2232.256,"end":2255.675,"text":"大约六成委内瑞拉跟伊朗的比例仅介于1到1成5当中因此美国的战略不是立即切断供应而是借由金融结算航运调度保险体系等制度优势来提高中共取得能源的成本与不确定性这样的制裁模式对于冲突出击的军事行动"},{"start":2256.155,"end":2270.667,"text":"其實約束力有限中共已經建立了相當規模的戰略能源儲備然而一旦轉成長期消耗戰能源的壓力就不再只是邊際的變數而是會直接影響民生工業運作與社會穩定"},{"start":2272.988,"end":2292.534,"text":"當低成本去風險化的能源管道受限勢必承受更高的戰略溢價這種戰後長期成壓的結構性風險才是真正對決策層構成實質嚇阻的關鍵從中華民國的角度出發這至少帶來三項重要的啟示第一"},{"start":2293.274,"end":2311.031,"text":"台海的安全不是只有军事问题而是深度地堪入了全球能源金融与供应链的结构性议题政府必须持续地让国际间清楚台海冲突将冲击全球经济制度的稳定"},{"start":2311.952,"end":2330.773,"text":"第二政府必須要正視能源韌性所承載的國安意涵無論是能源來源的多元化戰略儲備量能電網的穩定度以及降低對單一能源的依賴更不能預設跟排除任何發電的選項包括核能"},{"start":2331.514,"end":2357.594,"text":"第三中华民国应持续的扮演稳定而不是局势的一个催化剂的角色不仅应该积极来推动两岸的和平稳定的现状更应该透过民主伙伴等能源安全金融韧性与供应链重组上的深化合作让任何企图以武力来改变现状的行为都必须要承受高昂且长期性的结构性代价"},{"start":2358.294,"end":2372.283,"text":"能源不是政府用來製造恐慌的工具而是預防地緣變局的戰略基礎當全球體系已經高度聯動真正具有嚇阻力的往往不是情緒與口號而是理性務實與結構性的制衡這是中華民國在動彈"},{"start":2385.425,"end":2402.704,"text":"謝謝林倩琪委員的發言我們現在登記國事論壇的委員已經發言完畢請各黨團幹部於上午10點鐘整到議場後方主席休息室我們進行本次會議議程之溝通現在休息"},{"start":5348.171,"end":5369.557,"text":"報告院會我們開始開會請民主黨報告出席人數報告院會出席委員61人已足法定人數我們現在來開會報告院會因為本次的議程有待溝通因此請各黨團幹部現在立即到議場後方主席辦公室我們來進行溝通先來休息"},{"start":7177.271,"end":7206.509,"text":"來 報告院會我們繼續開會因為程旭文會以本次會議的議事日程草案送院會處理現在由黨團以本院議事成立對本次會議議事日程草案提出異議我們要現在進行處理並截止收案報告院會現在由黨團共事如下一 議程草案確認 詢議一 提案先後進行處理二 院會抽出動議 無異議 照案通過三"},{"start":7207.469,"end":7236.753,"text":"一般提案115年度中央政府總預算案新興資本支出及計畫動質案不作提案說明大體討論之後由臺灣民眾黨團推派一位民進黨團推派三位國民黨團推派三位輪流交叉發言每人發言時間三分鐘發言完畢之後我們進行處理四 一般提案國情報告案及公職人員選舉報名修正案等三案均另定其處理"},{"start":7238.399,"end":7258.711,"text":"五 復議案不再發言 進行處理六 完成協商之國軍老舊眷村改建條例修正案公共電視法修正案一 協商結論進行處理 散開議案完成三讀之後 均不再發言七"},{"start":7259.879,"end":7275.873,"text":"農民退休儲金條例修正案如果有完成協商於下週二院會依照協商結論我們進行處理八 農產品市場交易法第35條條文修正案如完成協商結論"},{"start":7277.094,"end":7303.316,"text":"各黨團同意 增列入本次會議討論事項不需協商之農產品市場交易法修正案後依序排列 進行處理本日院會處理至公共電視法修正案完畢之後院會即休息下星期二 我們院會不進行表決繼續處理後續討論事項之議案"},{"start":7307.838,"end":7324.311,"text":"處理完畢之後,即行散會。當次院會,我們不再處理臨時提案。抱怨會,本次院會後續依照黨團共識進行。我們先進行報告事項部分,請議事人宣讀黨團第一內容。"},{"start":7326.212,"end":7352.088,"text":"本院民進黨黨團針對立法院第十一屆第四會期第十八次會議議事成報告事項 質詢事項擬請增列報告事項三選案如附表是否有當進行公決本院台灣民眾黨黨團針對第十一屆第四會期第十八次會議議事成報告事項及質詢事項提議僅限列議事成草案所列議案及效表所列三選案是否有當進行公決本院國民黨黨團"},{"start":7353.449,"end":7379.637,"text":"針對第十一屆第四會期第十八次會議議程報告事項及質詢事項提議僅限列議權草案所列議案及效表所列三十五案是否有當進行公決宣言完畢報告委員會我們依照先後處理各黨團提議請問院會對民進黨提通過有無異議有異議我們要進行表決我們開始按鈴七分鐘並分發表決卡現在開始按鈴"},{"start":7804.568,"end":7829.102,"text":"好 報告約會七分鐘按鈴 時間已到我們要開始進行表決請問是否每位委員都有拿到表決卡都有拿到表決卡好 我們要開始進行表決現在針對民進黨黨團提議通過贊成 按贊成反對 按反對 時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":7903.171,"end":7931.162,"text":"保安委員會報告表決結果出席委員107位贊成48位反對59位贊成則少數民進黨黨團提議不通過保安委員會我們現在進行處理台灣民眾黨團僅限列之提議因為國民黨團之提議與台灣民眾黨團提議相同我們進行一併處理"},{"start":7932.851,"end":7950.98,"text":"請問院會 針對台灣民眾黨團 國民黨團提議通過有意義有意義我們進行表決現在針對台灣民眾黨團 國民黨團提議現在有民進黨團要求記名表決贊成按贊成 反對按反對時間一分鐘 現在開始"},{"start":8023.889,"end":8039.683,"text":"報告表決結果 出席委員107位 贊成59位 反對48位贊成者多數 臺灣民眾黨團 國民黨團提議照案通過本次會議意思是呈報告事項 質詢事項照 臺灣民眾黨團 國民黨團提議通過"},{"start":8044.227,"end":8053.431,"text":"報告議員會 我們繼續處理討論事項部分以先後處理各黨團提議我們現在處理民進黨團討論事項提供議案請議事人員宣讀提議內容請問議員會對民進黨團提議有無異議"},{"start":8072.253,"end":8077.344,"text":"由議我們要進行表決贊成民進黨團提議請按贊成 反對按反對 時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":8153.138,"end":8178.514,"text":"報告 表決結果出席 108 位 贊成 48 位 反對 60 位 贊成者少數民進黨黨團提議不通過 報告委員會林俊憲委員發表聲明對剛才表決與民進黨團意見一致 我們列入公報記錄我們現在進行處理台灣民眾黨團僅限列之提議國民黨團與台灣民眾黨團提議"},{"start":8180.942,"end":8205.214,"text":"相同 我們一併進行處理請議事人員一併宣讀題內容本院台灣民眾導導團針對第十一屆第四會期第十八次會議議事程討論事項提議僅限列如附表十二案是否有道進行公決本院國民導導團針對第十一屆第四會期第十八次會議議事程討論事項提議僅限列如附表共十二案是否有道進行公決宣讀完畢"},{"start":8206.614,"end":8214.52,"text":"選院會針對臺灣民眾黨團 國民黨團體有無異議有異議我們要進行表決我們現在針對臺灣民眾黨團 國民黨團體現在有民進黨團要求記名表決我們開始進行記名表決贊成 暗贊成 反對暗反對 時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":8298.332,"end":8305.676,"text":"包園會報告表決結果 除其108位 贊成59位 反對49位 贊成者多數臺灣民眾黨團 國民黨團提議照案通過我們本次會議一時日程討論事項 照臺灣民眾黨團 國民黨團提議通過本次會議一時日程確定現在進行報告事項 請民進黨宣讀第四會期 第17次會議事錄"},{"start":8323.519,"end":8346.25,"text":"宣讀立法案第十一屆第四會議第十七次會議一事度實現中華民國一百十五年一月九日十三日地點本院議場出席委員陳委員招師等一百十一人請假委員蔡委員議員等二人主席院長韓國瑜報告事項第一案宣讀本院第十一屆第四會議第十六次會議一事度決定確定第二之一二九"},{"start":8347.471,"end":8358.881,"text":"其中第165 167案均決定禁貿毒與相關提案並案協商其餘1案均決定交互相關委員會審查處理或交互相關委員會第130-141案"},{"start":8363.205,"end":8383.295,"text":"為司法及法治委員會所提出報告案 諮詢事項甲 行政答案部分五件以本院委員諮詢部分二件 討論事項第一案決議 會議案不通過第二之六 十一首案均決議 另定其處理 第七至十案均決議通過其他事項 本次會議是日程照台灣民眾黨黨團國民黨黨團提議通過 宣讀完畢"},{"start":8387.43,"end":8407.706,"text":"發言會針對第四會期第十七次會議議事錄並沒有委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處我們現在做以下決定第四會期第十七次會議議事錄確定現在處理針列部分請宣讀議案一 委員吳小林等"},{"start":8410.185,"end":8434.265,"text":"一 委員汪小林等理據 要害救濟法第3條條文修正草案 禮教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢全院會有異議 異議通過下言二 委員蘇金權等理據 醫療法第12條條文修正草案 禮教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢法院會報告事項第二案 有國民黨團體金富二族與相關提案並案協商 全院會有異議 沒有異議 本案金富二族與相關提案並案協商下言"},{"start":8435.225,"end":8456.828,"text":"三 委員羅明財等理據 民法第1223條條文修正草案 禮教司法及法治委員會審查 宣言完畢五 委員羅明財等理據 癌症防治法第16條條文修正草案 禮教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣言完畢五 委員徐曉新等理據 行政院組織法第4條條文修正草案 禮教司法及法治委員會審查 宣言完畢五 委員徐曉新等理據 行政院組織法第4條條文修正草案 禮教司法及法治委員會審查 宣言完畢五 委員徐曉新等理據"},{"start":8457.749,"end":8473.907,"text":"6 委員王玉敏等你據就業保險法部份條文修正草案你將社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查7 委員王玉敏等你據老年農民福利今天撰寫條例第二條第三條及第四條條文修正草案你將社會福利及衛生環境經濟內政三委員會審查"},{"start":8476.07,"end":8491.546,"text":"8.5元零欠期的女聚大學法第7條及第35條條文修正草案李昭教育及文化委員會審查我一條我小雅9.5元零欠期的女聚偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第8條條文修正草案李昭教育及文化委員會審查我一條我小雅"},{"start":8492.166,"end":8495.308,"text":"我一同我想要我一同我想要我一同我想要"},{"start":8514.796,"end":8539.461,"text":"十三 委員李毅說的理據衛生福利部而涉及家庭支持組織法條案 禮教司法及法治社會福利及衛生環境 兩委員會審查五一通和小雅十四 委員羅廷慧的理據環境牆評估法第五條條文修正條案 禮教社會福利及衛生環境 委員會審查五一通和小雅十五 委員張天才的理據原住民族教育法第十一條條文修正條案 禮教教育者文化內政 兩委員會審查五一通和小雅"},{"start":8539.981,"end":8561.559,"text":"十六 委員鄭天才的凝聚 發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案 擬交交通委員會審查 宣布違憲委員鄭敬慧的凝聚 加設事件法第108條條文修正草案 擬交司法及法中委員會審查 宣布違憲委員鄭敬慧的凝聚 兒童期12年未來就與發展政務條例部分條文修正草案 擬交社會福利經濟環境委員會審查 宣布違憲委員"},{"start":8563.52,"end":8587.56,"text":"主席 委員陳慶輝等你去 同情少年福利與權益保障法第69條條文修正草案 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣言完畢委員陳慶輝等你去 要釋法部分條文修正草案 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣言完畢委員賴偉祥等你去 衛生福利部長期照顧及社會發展署組織法草案 擬交司法及法制社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":8590.142,"end":8597.725,"text":"22.委員 梁偉祥 等你去 衛生福利部 和尚及家庭知識署 組織法草案 擬交司法及法徵 社會福利及衛生環境 兩委員會審查23."},{"start":8597.725,"end":8600.927,"text":"委員 劉憲國 等你去 衛生福利部 和尚及照顧及社會發展署 組織法草案 擬交司法及法徵 社會福利及衛生環境 兩委員會審查22."},{"start":8600.927,"end":8608.409,"text":"委員 劉憲國 等你去 衛生福利部 和尚及照顧及社會發展署 組織法草案 擬交司法及法徵 社會福利及衛生環境 兩委員會審查23"},{"start":8609.91,"end":8614.053,"text":"六十四 委員劉建國的臨據五十五 委員劉建國的臨據五十五 委員劉建國的臨據五十六 委員劉建國的臨據五十五 委員劉建國的臨據"},{"start":8639.289,"end":8655.37,"text":"二十七 委員蘇祥惠等你據警察法第五條 第六條及第九條條文修正常案您將內政委員會審查 宣揚議題委員蘇祥惠等你據太空發展法在內地十四條之一及第十四條之二條文常案您將消費局網話委員會審查 宣揚議題委員蘇祥惠等你據"},{"start":8656.872,"end":8682.34,"text":"二十九 委員蘇曉慧 等你據文化藝術講述及促進條例第十五條 條文修正草案擬交教育及文化財政 聯委員會審查 宣言完畢三十五 委員蘇曉慧 等你據身心障礙者權益保障法 部門條文修正草案擬交社會福利及衛生環境 委員會審查 宣言完畢三十一 委員王振旭 等你據人工生產法 修正草案擬交社會福利及衛生環境司法及法事 聯委員會審查 宣言完畢三十二 臺灣"},{"start":8683.26,"end":8693.423,"text":"民眾黨黨團聯聚中央廣播電臺設置條例第3條第4條基地屬腳條條文修正常案禮教司法及法制隧道一局文化兩委員會審查 宣言完畢無異通過宣言無異通過宣言無異通過宣言"},{"start":8708.948,"end":8710.128,"text":"請問院會有無異議 沒有異議 通過下一項"},{"start":8736.044,"end":8757.415,"text":"三 委員王宏偉等你據 所得稅法第四十七條條文修正草案 凝交財政委員會審查 宣達你五 委員王宏偉等你據 金融機構和平法第十五條條文修正草案 凝交財政委員會審查 宣達你五 委員王宏偉等你據 衛生福利部組織法第二條決定五條條文修正草案 凝交司法及法制社會福利及衛生環境 兩委員會審查 宣達你五 委員王宏偉等你據 衛生福利部組織法第二條決定五條條文修正草案 凝交司法及法制社會福利及衛生"},{"start":8758.476,"end":8775.834,"text":"6 委員王侯維登領據衛生福利部首席照顧及社會發展署組織發財案你將司法及發生社會福利及衛生環境的兩位友會審查 宣言完畢7 委員王侯維登領據衛生福利部首席家庭支持署組織發財案你將司法及發生社會福利及衛生環境的兩位友會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":8777.075,"end":8793.044,"text":"8.委員王宏偉等你具《勞動和健全法》第20條條文修正常案你將受惠福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣揚並委員通過下言9.委員侯孟海等你具《家庭暴力防治法》第30條之一及第31條條文修正常案你將受惠福利及衛生環境司法及法治兩委員會審查 宣揚並委員通過下言"},{"start":8794.945,"end":8814.745,"text":"委員王世堅等一句 防污控制水條例草案 擬交財經委員會審查 宣议完畢委員王世堅等一句 私立學校法定74條條文修正常案 擬交教育界文化委員會審查 宣议完畢委員徐曉新等一句 中華民國新法定77條條文修正常案 擬交司法及法制委員會審查 宣议完畢"},{"start":8815.646,"end":8843.799,"text":"十三 委員許曉新等一句衛生福利部兒童及家庭知識署組織法草案擬槍司法及法治社會福利及衛生環境兩委員會審查 宣布通過效應十四 委員許曉新等一句衛生福利部中央健康保險署組織法第二條條文修正草案擬槍司法及法治社會福利及衛生環境兩委員會審查 宣布通過效應十五 委員許曉新等一句衛生福利部長期照顧及社會發展署組織法草案擬槍司法及法治社會福利及衛生環境兩委員會審查 宣布通過效應"},{"start":8844.999,"end":8870.77,"text":"16.委員徐曉欣等你去衛生福利部組織法第2條第5條及第8條等我修正草案你將司法及法制社會福利及衛生環境兩委員會審查我議同我下案17.委員徐曉欣等你去國家醫療科技評估中心順勢條例草案你將司法及法制社會福利及衛生環境兩委員會審查我議同我下案18.委員徐曉欣等你去國家中醫研究院順勢條例草案你將司法及法制社會福利及衛生環境兩委員會審查我議同我下案"},{"start":8871.65,"end":8871.79,"text":"文議通過 效應"},{"start":8881.788,"end":8902.726,"text":"21 委員汪小林等你據中華民國新法30270條2條文草案 擬交司法及法制務員獲審查 宣言完畢21 委員汪小林等你據殘案人群自罪條例修正草案 擬交司法及法制務員獲審查 宣言完畢22 委員林楚瑩等你據國家安全法部門條文修正草案 擬交內政務員獲審查 宣言完畢21 委員汪小林等你據"},{"start":8903.527,"end":8932.387,"text":"二十三 委員六 現場的領據發展觀光條例曾內地六十六條十一條文章案擬交消防委員會審查 宣告閉二十四 委員牛 徐庭的領據發展觀光條例第二條第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案擬交消防委員會審查 宣告閉二十五 委員牛 徐庭的領據公正法第十三條條文修正草案擬交司法及法律委員會審查 宣告閉二十六 委員蘇翔會的領據都市經化法第四十二條及第四十六條條文修正草案擬交內政委員會審查"},{"start":8933.268,"end":8935.289,"text":"宣言完畢委員通過宣言委員通過宣言"},{"start":8951.46,"end":8971.637,"text":"二十九 委員馬文君等凝聚 教師法第25條條文修正草案 擬交修及文化委員會審查 宣傳並三十五 委員馬文君等凝聚 教師待遇條例第19條條文修正草案 擬交司法及法修及文化委員會審查 宣傳並三十一 委員范瑀等凝聚 平原地區學校將於發展條例部分條文修正草案"},{"start":8972.157,"end":9001.201,"text":"禮教教育及文化委員會審查 宣讀完畢32 維護疫情等領據身心障礙者權益保障法部 臺灣修正草案禮教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢33 國防部還未該部所屬114年度後勤期通知業務電費不足申請通知利率半金新台幣113億7463千元禮教外交及國防委員會 宣讀完畢34 農業部還未該部114年度運作農業管理向下經費不足"},{"start":9001.681,"end":9002.001,"text":"動議通過 宣揚動議通過"},{"start":9038.752,"end":9038.932,"text":"故意通過 小燕"},{"start":9056.091,"end":9056.672,"text":"五一通過宣言"},{"start":9072.268,"end":9087.514,"text":"三十八 行政委行委員農業部辦理因應非洲豬瘟之處於養豬政策調整輔導方案所需經費同時一百十四年度中央政府總預算第二倍金二零一二千八百萬元之印資檢送第二倍金動支出為七萬別票聯銷財政經濟兩委委員會宣布完畢"},{"start":9089.415,"end":9091.397,"text":"無疑通過 下議案無疑通過 下議案"},{"start":9115.918,"end":9136.287,"text":"40 邪教運行委員運動部補助雲林縣湖北高鐵運動園區 田徑場及暖身場興建工程經費通知114年度中央政府總預算第二倍金12億元之應此前送第二倍金動政署的機關評表年交財政教育界文化兩委員會宣言完畢41 邪教運行委員環境部環境管理署辦理因應非洲"},{"start":9136.747,"end":9138.828,"text":"無意通過宣揚無意通過宣揚"},{"start":9162.199,"end":9183.536,"text":"四十三 協進會修正國區生產及服務作業基金收支包括及應用辦法低調及低物調調溫 擬交外交及國防委員會宣言完畢四十四 協進會涵送一百十四年七月至十二月中央政府營業基金三億元以上及分營業特種基金一億元以上不辦預算或限期賣利數額表擬交經濟 交通 教育及文化三委員會宣言完畢"},{"start":9184.657,"end":9201.884,"text":"四十五 衔接委員會指地方建設 接近收拾保管及運用辦法 擬交財政委員會 宣言完畢四十六 衔接委員會為中華民國一百十三年六月十九日制定公佈之暫宣醫療法及暫宣醫療之際條例定自一百十五年一月一日實行 擬交社會福利計畫上環境委員會 宣言完畢"},{"start":9202.944,"end":9227.046,"text":"四十七 行政院修正管制要憑分級及品項 部分分級及品項 彼此114年12月8日生效 擬交社會福利及歐洲環境委員會 宣言完畢四十八 行政院司法院函授 少年輔導委員會處理曝險行為有關物品辦法 擬交司法企劃之委員會 宣言完畢四十九 內政部函送社會住宅租金分級收費原則 擬交內政委員會 宣言完畢"},{"start":9227.546,"end":9236.729,"text":"外医会第49案由台湾民众党团体改交审查本案交内政委员会审查下案无疑通过下案无疑通过下案无疑通过下案"},{"start":9255.914,"end":9277.927,"text":"五十三 農業部喊送軌道到出口應遵行事項 禮教經濟委員會 宣暖閉五十四 農業部修正維研宣調或監委維旺宣布太平洋作業管理辦法部分條文 禮教經濟委員會 宣暖閉五十五 農業部修正公告美國馮蒙特州自更名遠行交行流行性感冒飛去刪除 禮教經濟委員會 宣暖閉"},{"start":9279.048,"end":9295.753,"text":"五十六 農業部修正農業用地違規使用檢舉獎立法第二條條文你將經濟委員會宣傳並五十七 農業部韓赠我國與菲律賓簽署序程研究夥伴合作瞭解變化路英文 中文 日本 英文你將經濟外交警方兩委員會宣傳並"},{"start":9297.173,"end":9316.745,"text":"五十八 經濟部橫送漁船用引擎容許耗用能源計算及檢查方式 禮教經濟委員會 宣布完畢五十九 經濟部修正書片典業分離會計處理準則第一條及第三條條文 禮教經濟委員會 宣布完畢五十八 經濟部修正水災災害救助種類及標準第五條及第四條條文 禮教經濟委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":9318.726,"end":9334.265,"text":"六十一 經濟部橫送經濟部丹娜斯颱風雨728豪雨災禍檢疫自然水設備及水利設施復原重新辦法離郊經濟委員會宣布完畢六十二 經濟部農業補廢止預算用引擎容許耗油能源標準及管理辦法離郊經濟委員會宣布完畢"},{"start":9336.047,"end":9358.709,"text":"六十三 公民教育委員會修正檢舉違法聯合行為獎金發放辦法第九條文 擬交經濟委員會 宣暖幣六十四 財政部修正促進民間參與公共建設法制重大公共建設範圍 擬交財政委員會 宣暖幣法院會第六十四案 臺灣民眾黨團體改交審查本案交財政委員會審查 下頁"},{"start":9359.54,"end":9378.482,"text":"六十五 財政部修正財政部所屬生產社經過人員退休 撫恤及資遣辦法第八條及第八條之一條文 禮教司法及法治財政兩委員會宣言完畢六十六 財政部修正財政部 台北國稅局單份局編制表等四項編制表並自一百十五年二月一日生效禮教司法及法治財政兩委員會宣言完畢"},{"start":9380.484,"end":9382.606,"text":"無意通過宣揚無意通過宣揚無意通過宣揚"},{"start":9409.244,"end":9424.819,"text":"七十一 教育部修正持國外專業上學歷申請教育幼兒園教保專業課程證明書本法 理教教育及文化委員會 宣暖幣七十一 教育部修正國家圖書館出賄成理教司法及法治教育及文化聯盟委員會 宣暖幣"},{"start":9426.861,"end":9449.851,"text":"七十二 文化部修正國立中正紀念堂管理處及成立及順序使用國費收費標準第二條檔案及第三條副表 尼加奧消息局文化委員會 宣言完畢七十三 國家科學及技術委員會 安送全國性科技事務財政法人使用財政法人法第21條第二項第三規案鎖定一定金額 尼加奧消息局文化委員會 宣言完畢"},{"start":9450.851,"end":9466.638,"text":"七十四 國家科學及基金委員會 環境部修正科學園區廢棄物 共同清除 處理及管理辦法第二條決定事條條文 禮教教育文化社會福利及外商環境兩委員會宣傳並七十五 交通部採用國際海事組織所屬海事安全委員會"},{"start":9467.378,"end":9490.35,"text":"第1064及第107次會議所採納AMS 11.520106AMS 11.5307及AMS 11.5307決議之海上人民安全國際公約修正案並修正相關戰術及其設備紀錄你交交通委員會 宣言完畢七十六 交通部修正車輛行駛安全審議管理辦法第十四條付表你交交通委員會 宣言完畢"},{"start":9491.531,"end":9511.888,"text":"七十七 交通部委員會停車場經營業個人資料等安全維護新化及處理辦法明確修正委停車場經營業個人資料等安全維護管理辦法並修正第六條條文自一百十五年一月一日實行 禮交交通委員會 宣布議題七十八 數位發展部涵送數位發展部數位發展專業獎賞頒給辦法 禮交交通委員會 宣布議題"},{"start":9513.789,"end":9540.316,"text":"七十九 考試院修正公務人員特審考試 公務人員考試規則第十條條文及第三條副表一 副表二 擬交司法及法治委員會 宣言完畢八十 考試院修正公務人員特審考試 移民行政委員考試規則第八條 第十一條條文及第三條副表一 第五條副表二 擬交司法及法治委員會 宣言完畢八十一 考試院修正 考試院編制表 擬交司法及法治委員會 宣言完畢"},{"start":9542.257,"end":9557.116,"text":"82 考試院行政院修正各機關職稱及官等職等員額配置準則 擬交司法及法徵委員會 宣布完畢83 考試院行政院修正各機關聚用醫師人員人身條例主義藍標 擬交司法及法徵委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":9568.14,"end":9584.603,"text":"好 下一頁八十四 衛生福利不含售再訓醫療省營會組織及運作辦法的六項法規擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣布完畢法院會八十四案國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一頁"},{"start":9585.583,"end":9602.314,"text":"85 衛生福利部函宋 申請在訓醫療及看保護廣告審查費收費標準及在訓醫療技術及指定知識管理辦法第二條附表一看護表 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣告完畢報告完畢 85 案 國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一案"},{"start":9603.391,"end":9617.083,"text":"86 衛生福利部函宋在訓療日及組織細胞提供者知情統一辦法擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣傳完畢官員會86案 國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一案"},{"start":9617.557,"end":9633.045,"text":"八十七 衛生福利部函宋在訓練療養主席朝宴登記及許可審查準則你將社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣傳報應會八十七案國民黨團體改交審查本案將社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一案八十八 衛生福利部修正"},{"start":9634.085,"end":9661.094,"text":"農藥殘留 溶水量標準第三條副表1 第六條副表5及動物產品中農藥殘留 溶水量標準你將社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣言完畢八十九 衛生福利部函宋再生醫療細胞操作管理辦法再生醫療細胞保存戶甚至許可管理辦法及再生醫療技術組織細胞提供者核實性判定辦法你將社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣言完畢報案院會八十九案國民黨團體改交審查本案"},{"start":9661.789,"end":9683.829,"text":"交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一案90 衛生福利部修正水平添加物櫃檢驗方法附錄B是要順眼的你交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣言完畢 下一案91 環境部函掃水中總有積碳檢測方法燃燒紅外觀測定法你交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣言完畢 下一案"},{"start":9685.049,"end":9692.992,"text":"90.環境不廢止 水中總有機等檢測方法 燃燒火萬線測定法 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣傳並90."},{"start":9692.992,"end":9693.453,"text":"吳亦東國校園90."},{"start":9693.453,"end":9693.613,"text":"吳亦東國校園90."},{"start":9693.613,"end":9697.154,"text":"環境不廢止 排放管道裝扮 揮發性有機物檢測方法"},{"start":9707.538,"end":9708.319,"text":"審議通告下議案法院會95 案"},{"start":9726.207,"end":9754.785,"text":"國民黨團體改交審查 本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下議案96 勞動部修正勞動部編制表 擬交司法及法制社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣布完畢無疑通過 下議案97 勞動部修正就業保險法 稅性細則部分條文 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣布完畢無疑通過 下議案98 勞動部涵送勞動部勞工保險局 判了115年勞工保險被保險人員疏困貸款 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣布完畢無疑通過 下議"},{"start":9755.245,"end":9757.368,"text":"本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一項"},{"start":9768.985,"end":9793.119,"text":"100 勞動務修正 因應國際情勢 支持勞工安定就業本法第四條 即第二十條條文 領交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢101 通過下議案101 國家科學及技術委員會 涵送114 年國防科技產業推動現況書面報告 領交消息及文化委員會 宣讀完畢101 通過下議案102 國家通訊傳播委員會 涵送113 年通訊傳播績效報告 領交交通委員會 宣讀完畢101 通過下議案"},{"start":9793.519,"end":9796.12,"text":"法院會本案 臺灣民眾黨團體改交審查本案交內政委員會審查法院會第105案"},{"start":9821.601,"end":9829.808,"text":"到193我們會依序宣讀其中105 106 141 719123 124 126 127 136-139142 143 150案台灣民眾黨團體改交審查第114 118國民黨團體改交審查宣讀之後以上提案均改交相關委會審查區議案均照議事處意見通過請問院會有無異議面議宣讀後通過請宣讀"},{"start":9851.704,"end":9878.964,"text":"第105案 決定90案為大陸委員會 客家委員會 海洋委員會 力選部 國防部 外交部 經濟 國家發展委員會 農業部 財政部 文化部 國家科學及技術委員會 教育部 消動部 數位發展部 行政院 公共工程委員會 武漢東區傳播委員會 司法院 防護部 衛生 福利部 環境部 捍衛 更年度 相同預算114年度中央政府足算追加預算中央政府擔當時態崩擊728豪雨 災後復原重建特別預算"},{"start":9879.444,"end":9885.696,"text":"中央政府因應國際形勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算等預算決議分別簡訊相關報告宣讀完畢"},{"start":9892.406,"end":9917.561,"text":"第一九議案為本院財政委員會函為院會交付審查相關行政命令已於立法院執行《刑事法》第六十一條鎖定審查期限第一九二案之底二零三案為本院司法及法庭委員會報告審查相關人民團體情願案請審查結果均勿成為議案案宣讀完畢好 瓜園會我們開始處理國民黨團體共議案請議事人員宣讀題內容"},{"start":9919.864,"end":9924.467,"text":"我們依照黨團共識本案照案通過我們現在進行處理討論事項第一案本院國民黨團 臺灣民眾黨團共同提案"},{"start":9947.406,"end":9966.29,"text":"建請院會作成決議115年度總預算案中具有急迫性及攸關重大民生之新興資本支出及新增計畫本院同意先行予以動之請公決案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":9967.301,"end":9995.246,"text":"北約國民黨黨團 臺灣民眾黨黨團有限於國際風雲詭矩兩岸兵兇佔為20年度中央政府總人選案行政院卻惡意違法拘捕編列以生命保家衛國的志願與軍人加薪及警消退休金替代率提高之預算不但至今未提出其他可行之替代方式甚至以各種迴憲亂政的手法企圖閹割多數民意頻頻散佈不實言論造成社會對立時不足矩"},{"start":9995.786,"end":10020.78,"text":"我國預算程序有不關門機制的設計依預算法第五十四條定有明文原進行又會作成權益一百十五年度總預算人中具有急迫性及攸關重大民生之新興資本支出及新生計畫如附件本院同意先行予以動之必以補救行政院待遇推動政務消極不作為之行徑影響國際民生是否有當請公決案宣讀完畢"},{"start":10021.3,"end":10046.219,"text":"法院會依照立法院執行新司法第八條第三項規定本案經提案人說明提案子去大體討論之後我們即議決交付審查或禁付二讀或不予審議法院會依照黨團共識本案提案就不再說明我們現在進行大體討論依照黨團共識請各黨團推派代表發言首先請張祺凱委員發言鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":10068.547,"end":10086.728,"text":"民進黨立委一直在提醒說攸關大家行的安全 交通安全跟便利的TPAS要趕快過今天民眾黨跟國民黨提出優先來處理 趕快放行我們要提醒上個月"},{"start":10088.902,"end":10110.151,"text":"在討論行政院砍了地方的補助款包括血統的營養午餐治水的預算民進黨黨議大議民意民進黨絕大部分的立法委員投票的結果是贊成砍地方補助款今天"},{"start":10112.352,"end":10116.427,"text":"在野黨提出依照預算法第54條也就是"},{"start":10119.502,"end":10147.885,"text":"不關門的這個機制我們對於新興的這個計畫可以先經過立法院會通過以後馬上放行包括TPAS行政院通勤業票的執行計畫還有公保生意給付差額的補助2.35億還有河川整治跟排水的整體改善計畫還有攸關國防安全的"},{"start":10148.806,"end":10175.337,"text":"AS365N海豚型機隊的升級中程計畫等一下請大家注意看民進黨的立委是不是又是黨議大移民議不通過TPAS的預算不通過防洪治水的預算不通過國防安全的預算另外賴清德總統說要趕快審總預算要慎應廣大的民意"},{"start":10178.922,"end":10186.01,"text":"台灣民眾黨最近做了一個大型的民調結果發現 問說你支不支持"},{"start":10187.341,"end":10212.962,"text":"行政部門應該趕快編足立法院通過的金人加薪跟警消的所得替代率提高高達67.6%的民眾都是贊成的反對只有18%進一步問如果不趕快補足是不是就先不要審結果51比37絕大部分的民眾也認為行政要趕快把它編足事實上"},{"start":10214.123,"end":10238.154,"text":"這個也是去年的解決方案去年經過朝野協商行政院長卓榮泰說趕快把該編的編族去年就解開了解零還需細零人所以請行政院趕快編族該編的預算金人的加薪景銷所得替代率這是一個治本的方法去年成功了那治標的方法就今天在野黨所提出來的"},{"start":10238.934,"end":10264.219,"text":"我們啟動不關門條款我們先讓新的計畫 包括剛剛提的跟民生經濟有關的讓他先行通過 等下進行表決請民進黨不要再黨議大於民意也不要罷免好 謝謝張祺凱委員的發言接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言傅坤祺委員請準備"},{"start":10273.871,"end":10298.414,"text":"主席在場委員先進中華民國行縣史來首次有立法院要處理根據預設法第54條當新興計畫因為能審議完均 使得動資受到限制的時候要提經立法院同意後來動資今天我們很好奇的是三個問題"},{"start":10300.837,"end":10314.926,"text":"國民黨跟民眾黨所列的這718億他們認為重大 急迫攸關民生我們要問的不是它是否重大我們要問的是2992億的另外2274億的新興"},{"start":10322.35,"end":10348.777,"text":"資本計畫哪一項不重要哪一項不急迫哪一項不攸關民生請國眾兩黨告訴人民除了這718億之外其他的2200多億哪一項不重要哪一項不攸關民生哪一項不急迫第二我們要請教國眾兩黨那麼你如何知道這些急迫"},{"start":10349.69,"end":10376.739,"text":"因為總預算根本會交付審議你怎麼區別2991當中這718億特別重要特別急迫特別攸關民生你們是看項目嗎如果你們看項目就可以做出判斷了我們要問第三個問題既然你有能力已經判斷預算當中的優先款級數額多寡你為什麼不審議"},{"start":10378.632,"end":10396.527,"text":"目前115年度的中央政府總預算由於藍白的抵制跟杯葛遲遲未能交付審議不能符合預算法51條的規定因此根據54條這些新興資本計劃必須等立法院完成審議後始得動之"},{"start":10398.653,"end":10421.622,"text":"這個就是我們憲法規定的精神立法院是踩煞車 行政院是加油門預算編制權在行政院 立法院只能審議 只能踩油門因為憲法其實要寫立法院對行政院所提預算案不得為增加支出之提議很清楚 一個是油門 一個是煞車今天你們說 張祺凱說解鈴還需細鈴人 我說錯"},{"start":10425.376,"end":10450.719,"text":"今天你們是白蛇跟許仙一方面放毒讓我們重要的2992億攸關人民名聲重大急迫的不能夠完成審訊進行執行而你們要當許仙要當好人要說我把你這718億先行放行你叫其他2200多億影響的人民情何以堪啊"},{"start":10451.44,"end":10469.066,"text":"人民要像乞丐一樣我718億我敲碗了你才給我我另外2200億我不敲碗好 謝謝鍾嘉賓委員的發言接下來我們請富坤崎委員發言王逸川委員請準備"},{"start":10493.123,"end":10521.192,"text":"院長 立法院各位同仁全國的各位鄉親當全世界兵兇戰危烽火連天 戰爭疊起的此刻我們為了防衛台灣國會正式通過讓所有的軍人能夠加薪而不是領得三萬五千塊的職業軍人要養家活口還要上戰場"},{"start":10522.608,"end":10537.58,"text":"要讓所有的景銷能夠維護我們社會的安定跟秩序必須能夠有完整的退休計畫國會也通過了相關的這些法案但是很遺憾的"},{"start":10538.717,"end":10557.434,"text":"我們賴政府對這一次一百一十五年的總預算都沒有把防衛台灣最關鍵的力量這些預算把它編進來本身是一個違法的預算但是綁架的卻是全台灣的人民"},{"start":10558.516,"end":10576.279,"text":"人民受苦是我們大家應該要如何思考大家平心靜氣放下彼此的成見我們必須好好的來顧民生來拼經濟今天由國民黨團"},{"start":10577.34,"end":10596.786,"text":"跟民眾黨團非常負責任的所提出的行政院38項新興計畫裡面攸關民生非常迫切的這些相關的預算把它正式抽出依照預算法的54條來交付國會來公決對於北台灣 中台灣這些基層"},{"start":10605.705,"end":10629.097,"text":"奮鬥的百姓TPAS重不重要我們是不是應該要立刻來給他來進行還有生育補助每胎10萬育兒津貼還有育嬰照顧相關的計畫學校整建橋樑修復人才培育產業創生河川治水以及排水整體改善"},{"start":10629.977,"end":10658.077,"text":"還有在整體的醫療科技的推動計畫台單品牌散市的相關的運動計畫偏鄉通訊網路數位的韌性計畫各縣市財政均衡補助一般性補助的320億很重要的還有高雄屏東要不要東西向的快速道路我想今天大家應該以民生為本"},{"start":10658.817,"end":10685.464,"text":"不要再把政黨意識放在人民之上我們大家盡快的依照預算法依照國會可以究竟的方式把所有的新興計畫尤其最重要38項盡快通過希望大家同心協力來一起支持臺灣謝謝謝謝富坤請委員發言接下來我們請王逸川委員發言王紅薇委員請準備"},{"start":10698.616,"end":10721.411,"text":"好 多少主席 剛才國民黨的這個暴君旗 宗教啊 說得不錯 說得不錯 我很快把他餓了 他說要民生為重要啦齁我當作他 長命吃魚 要吃到現在煩盡了他剩下這麼多 你已經七八幾億出來當他 你國民黨是怎麼空空的"},{"start":10725.543,"end":10750.093,"text":"你覺得你們保固期在唸的時候啊唸成這樣嘀嘀吐吐,他可能也不知道你在唸什麼你不知道你們腦袋有多少呢?你們腦袋兩千多億,兩千多億裡面...欸!我今天跟你講一個T-Bus,你就小小的唸T-Bus我跟你講滴水,你就講滴水學人精,裡面還有很多我們還沒唸的我不能現在跟你說喔我們這兩天如果還有唸對幾條出來,你不可能再對喔"},{"start":10755.034,"end":10779.365,"text":"因為你現在一位這幾條最重要 其他都沒重要沒人情啦 沒人情 你看他也沒要心意上啊對他經來經去 講經這幾個 還搞不清楚對幾條叫做民生相關今天你啦 你今天在退出的這裡 台灣人都看得到你這位最重要"},{"start":10780.578,"end":10795.765,"text":"還有咕嚕跳的醫生你們都不想信國防的醫生不想信特別的條例不想信你們的黨主席給我關心一件事說喔 台灣叫美國人給我講15%啊不叫中國一樣創一個40幾%來看看"},{"start":10800.083,"end":10822.984,"text":"可憐 喔 你們董主席 要衝衝那麼高的今天15% 這樣你們有開心嗎 還是你們今天還要出來賣今天去通過這個 我要說 通過這個代表什麼代表你們選擇性啦 剛才副主席說喔說這個愛 過路到明星 堆一條不是明星 你說"},{"start":10824.341,"end":10850.692,"text":"國民黨你現在公開講 後面還有黃宏偉叫黃孟楷 你們說你今天沒有來世新計畫 2000多億對一條不是民生重要的 拿出來講拿出來講 指名道姓 看對一條 要保守對 要做對 堅實的不是民生需要的後面還有黃宏偉叫黃孟楷 你們兩個起來講看看講到這700多重要 其他2000多人都沒有重要"},{"start":10854.013,"end":10875.232,"text":"讓我們聽聽看 讓台灣人民了解說原來你們國民黨 叫這個民眾黨 投降了就對了現在全台灣 今天說的這七八幾億是重要的其他一點也都不重要你不可以空空的 這幾天喔 每天又說對幾條重要不可以到時候還唱韓國的 說韓國的啊不然還加五條 加十條 這樣就漏氣死了"},{"start":10881.482,"end":10887.909,"text":"好 謝謝王逸川委員的發言接下來我們請王洪威委員發言吳思瑤委員請準備"},{"start":10905.182,"end":10934.171,"text":"好 主席還有各位同仁今天我們特別提到的就是有關於一些我們新興的計劃那屬於有急迫性以及民生性的預算我們把它提出來眾所皆知現在中央政府總預算的困境就是在於現在行政院違法不編列對於我們軍人以及退休警消的預算"},{"start":10935.331,"end":10951.634,"text":"剛才鍾嘉斌委員說人民好像乞丐一樣要敲碗才有急迫性但是我的質疑是我們現在我們的軍人我們的警消對於民進黨來說是連乞丐都不如啊"},{"start":10953.31,"end":10979.055,"text":"當他們敲碗當他們希望能夠編列應該法定預算的時候可是民進黨政府不聞不問所以在這邊為什麼中央政府總預算遇到這樣的僵局民進黨政府賴清德總統卓榮泰院長要負起百分之百的責任"},{"start":10979.895,"end":11007.718,"text":"但是在这边我们也看到一些新兴的计划里面跟民生相关还有它有急迫性的譬如说t pass譬如说生育补助以及治水预算以及对地方政府的补助的部分我们在这边我们希望在合法合于预算法的规定之下我们先行做处理"},{"start":11008.659,"end":11033.46,"text":"這是作為我們在野黨我們負責任的願意去解決現在預算的僵局這樣的態度才是正確的態度如果例如像剛才王逸川委員在這邊指揮提高聲量來問在野黨我想請問一下現在到底誰在執政"},{"start":11034.241,"end":11062.074,"text":"我想請問一下現在誰在當總統誰在當行政院長如果你們執政如此無能如果你們執政沒有辦法解決民生的問題如果你們執政不能夠回應人民的需要的時候那麼當然我們在野黨願意負起責任所以這不叫做為德不足"},{"start":11062.634,"end":11089.527,"text":"因為這是我們面對現在所有人民所需要的問題我們負責任的去解決問題所以在這邊我要跟全體的國民來報告我也要再一次的為我們的軍人跟我們的警消請命當我們看到花蓮外海我們的F16V的我們的飛官的"},{"start":11097.388,"end":11101.658,"text":"謝謝王宏威委員的發言接下來我們請吳思瑤委員發言 侯孟愷委員請準備"},{"start":11109.342,"end":11127.87,"text":"主席各位同仁我先講兩個程序的問題剛剛大家手上拿到的這一份提案38項藍白精挑細選卻掛一漏萬的所謂急迫性預算不過是15分鐘前才發到大家的手上"},{"start":11128.59,"end":11152.463,"text":"再一次的最後一刻突襲黑箱這種表決前才把資料拿給大家我們在台下手忙腳亂拿著計算機來算到底是幾項才知道是38項718億備放刑要審查這就是這一屆的立法院突襲黑箱又來了"},{"start":11153.163,"end":11180.223,"text":"第二個程序的問題我們當立委這麼久了任何一個議案不管是法案或是預算案要經過附委的程序在進行內容的審查怎麼會總預算案現在還沒有完成附委的程序你可以在裡面挑三減四挑出你想吃的這麼挑食你以為審總預算是自助餐嗎"},{"start":11181.804,"end":11185.546,"text":"或是你以為審總預算是贖罪卷被罵什麼才審什麼我舉個簡單的例子現在我們的國防軍購特別條例一樣被冷凍在程序委員會沒有辦法覆委我們可以說這個軍購特別條例七個條文沒有辦法覆委審查然後在野黨提一個一條兩條的條文來通過嗎"},{"start":11209.841,"end":11236.947,"text":"一大包的預算還沒付尾一大案的法案還沒付尾你們可以這樣拆解預算可以這樣來拆解法案我真的要說718億被放刑講得好像你們做功德好棒棒事實上在野黨是為自己的擺爛自己當薪水小偷找台階下"},{"start":11241.53,"end":11252.16,"text":"這38項718億是什麼概念我告訴大家黃國昌不在場可能去當薪水小偷了他最愛說的薄薄兩三頁就是這樣來的38項718億薄薄兩三頁最後一刻黑箱提出就是這樣"},{"start":11264.81,"end":11273.832,"text":"718億今天要所謂放行審查的概念又是什麼只佔所有新興急迫2992億預算的24%換言之你們丟包了另外76%3的急迫預算你們都不審"},{"start":11286.795,"end":11293.92,"text":"而總預算是一大包該審查的是三兆的預算今天只審查七百謝謝"},{"start":11317.571,"end":11337.703,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝吳斯堯委員的發言 謝謝接下來我們請登記最後一位第七號洪孟凱文 請發言"},{"start":11346.971,"end":11362.243,"text":"時間暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停暫停�"},{"start":11375.472,"end":11402.941,"text":"感謝主席各位同仁媒體朋友們剛剛有民進黨的代表講是說這是首次中華民國有史以來我們用預算法第54條來做一個審查但我們更要講今年因為是首次行政院沒有依照三讀通過來編列相關的預算送進來違法的預算你要我們怎麼違法審查"},{"start":11403.661,"end":11419.689,"text":"如果要講丟包的話我們更要說今天在場無論朝野黨團113席立法委員應該共同一致譴責行政院行政院丟包年度總預算因為你們沒有依法編列就是這麼簡單"},{"start":11423.652,"end":11445.078,"text":"我們要的是審查總預算但是總預算要依法送進立法院沒有依法送進立法院要我們怎麼審查我們更要講當行政部門執政黨的委員口口聲聲講說要支持軍人支持國防的時候為什麼軍人加薪沒有幫軍人爭取"},{"start":11447.511,"end":11475.154,"text":"當執政黨的委員口口聲聲講說要照顧軍警消公教人員的時候當我們通過的三讀法案為什麼遲遲沒有辦法編列今年的年度總預算高達三兆又是死賬最高高達三兆死賬最高的預算居然把我們軍警公教消等相關人員的預算全部都沒有放進去我們沒有辦法接受"},{"start":11475.794,"end":11497.483,"text":"但我們要說的是面對行政院的帶弱跟違法在野黨團不會盲目的選擇對抗而是我們還要站在國家發展的角度因此我們才會提出我們要解決問題運用預算法第54條拿出新計劃裡面民生相關的法案來交付協商"},{"start":11498.223,"end":11522.637,"text":"其中包括少子化對策其中包括交通正義的部分Tpass以及相關安全防護還有醫療體育這些計畫我們不會因為行政院違法編列受阻而是國民黨團民眾黨團希望在本會期能夠完成刪讀讓利民法案能夠如期上路再次強調一點"},{"start":11524.332,"end":11550.082,"text":"依法行政是一個法治國家最基本的義務但絕對不是拿來當成逃避監督的藉口所以在野黨監督政府天經地義這是憲法賦予的職責我們今天的提案完全合法合憲合理更要求行政院補足違法預算的缺口而且要加速民生預算的進行再次強調"},{"start":11552.41,"end":11567.14,"text":"違法編列我們無法違法審查依法編列即刻審查這是我們始終為國為民的謝謝謝謝洪孟凱委員的發言"},{"start":11589.892,"end":11617.751,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝謝謝好 報告院會我們要進行處理拜託大家遵守下一場次序拜託大家 祝福大家馬上幸福我們現在開始處理 好不好現在有國民黨團 臺灣民眾黨團提議本案禁覆二讀請問院會"},{"start":11620.154,"end":11638.747,"text":"有異議有異議我們要進行表決贊成國民黨團 台灣民眾黨團第一禁服二讀現在有民進黨團要求記名表決贊成 請按贊成 反對按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":11711.556,"end":11737.468,"text":"報應會報告表決結果在場委員出席108位贊成58位反對49位棄權1位贊成者多數國民黨團 臺灣民眾黨團提議照案通過決議 禁覆二讀報應會現在有本院 傅坤祺委員等黃國昌委員等"},{"start":11741.26,"end":11767.681,"text":"針對方才禁賦二讀之決議提出複議並請院會隨即進行表決處理辦委會我們現在進行本件複議案現在進行表決針對傅坤祺委員等黃國昌委員等所提複議案現在有民進黨團要求記名表決我們開始記名表決贊成 暗贊成反對 暗反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":11838.763,"end":11854.629,"text":"辦院會報告表決結果 在場出席為 108 位贊成 49 位 反對 59 位 贊成則少數 敷衍不通過依據立法院職權新釋法第 74 條之一規定交付黨團協商我們現在做一下決議"},{"start":11855.609,"end":11872.223,"text":"交付黨團協商並由國民黨團 臺灣民眾黨團共同負責召集協商歡迎會謝一鳳委員發表聲明對剛才表決與國民黨團意見一致我們列入公報記錄現在討論事項第二案本院國民黨團 臺灣民眾黨團分別提案"},{"start":11873.905,"end":11902.728,"text":"建情院會作成決議邀請賴清德總統赴立法院就《攸關國家安全之重大國安事項及天價軍購》提出國情報告並接受委員諮詢 請公決案本案經第四會期第三次會議決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨團 臺灣民眾黨團共同負責召集協商抱怨會依照黨團共識我們做以下決定"},{"start":11904.076,"end":11928.785,"text":"定期處理我們進入討論事項第三案本院民進黨團針對第十一屆第四會期第十六次會議報告事項第119案院會所做決定提出復議請公決案本案經第四會期第十七次會議決議令定期處理我們現在進行處理報告委員會依照黨團共識我們不再發言現在針對民進黨黨團所提復議案進行表決"},{"start":11933.359,"end":11938.177,"text":"我們現在有民進黨團要求記名表決贊成民進黨團"},{"start":11970.613,"end":11971.774,"text":"謝謝 請回座 我們準備表決"},{"start":11995.455,"end":12012.081,"text":"好 謝謝我們要進行針對民進黨所提的復議案我們要進行表決民進黨團要求記名表決我們開始進行記名表決贊成 按贊成反對 按反對時間一分鐘 現在開始"},{"start":12085.967,"end":12113.697,"text":"好 謝謝請回座 謝謝報告表決結果出席108位贊成49位反對59位贊成者少數我們做以下決議附議案不通過本案報告事項照原作決定通過現在我們進入討論事項第四案國軍老舊眷村改建條例第三條條文修正草案本案經第四會期第十七次會議決議另定期處理"},{"start":12116.584,"end":12127.378,"text":"抱怨會本案已經完成協商請宣讀協商結論立法院黨團協商結論事件115年1月13日星期二上午9時30分地點紅樓302會議室"},{"start":12130.825,"end":12154.174,"text":"其當主題國軍老舊眷村改建條例第三條條文修正草案相結論一 第三條保留送院會進行處理二 本院院會處理時廣泛討論由各黨團各推派一人發言逐條討論及完成三讀後軍部發言逐條十一黨團版本先後進行表決主持人韓國瑜將啟程"},{"start":12155.532,"end":12183.075,"text":"協商代表羅志強 林佩祥 傅君綺 柯建銘 鍾嘉斌陳培 張綺楷 陳昭芝 黃國昌宣讀完畢請問院會對以上協商結論有無異議沒有異議本案後續就依照協商結論進行處理歡迎院會我們現在進行廣泛討論請各黨團推派代表發言首先請鍾嘉斌委員發言羅志強委員請準備"},{"start":12192.219,"end":12205.662,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進尤其是待會要來發言的羅志強委員我們來看一看這個《眷改條例》個案立法特快車這個案子難道有關十人八村嗎"},{"start":12207.128,"end":12234.066,"text":"大法官有夠解釋國家對於有限資源的分配不能只照顧特定族群必須要考量一般國民的感受我們來看一看待會羅惠媛對本案還有國眾兩黨背書的捐款條例有何感受這個案子在去年4月交付審查外交國防一次審查然後到年底就抽出禁錮二讀年底完成了"},{"start":12235.649,"end":12256.913,"text":"黨團協商就在前天院長主持朝野協商今天就要交付表決這是什麼案子這麼急迫可能有人會說這個沒有啦這才50個人拖了十幾年持來的正義我們來告訴大家什麼叫做正義當年的眷改條例造成的結果國債目前國庫還要負責將近2000億的短處虧損"},{"start":12262.264,"end":12287.813,"text":"而民國85年捐改條例通過之後當時落成僅7年78年的慈仁八村居然被列入了要改善的老舊眷村天啊慈仁八村78年落成距離85年只有7年的時間居然列入要改建的老舊眷村這不是弊案 什麼是弊案果然99年結果檢舉100年"},{"start":12290.574,"end":12297.791,"text":"偵查終結國防部撤銷成人八村不得享有眷村改建的資格"},{"start":12299.198,"end":12326.739,"text":"眷戶持續的進行行政訴訟104年上述駁回判決確定而且兩度遭到大法官不予受理事件因此到了105年政黨輪替前夕行政院由林鄭哲政務委員召集1月5號完成協調由國防部提案結果就在5月11號5月11號就送到立法院來"},{"start":12328.271,"end":12339.636,"text":"隔個下個月行政院改組行政院撤回案子這是什麼案子這不是救濟案這是特權案這是弊案"},{"start":12340.629,"end":12358.174,"text":"而且羅志強委員的修法把69年12月30日拿掉之後現在當年85年依眷改條例新建完成的眷舍都有可能援引慈仁八村的例子"},{"start":12358.934,"end":12386.682,"text":"要求包括像羅志強委員國民黨民眾黨不顧社會公平政策委員個案修法貪圖個人的私利破壞人民的居住正義我們在這裡要提醒社會記住這一天這一天有國眾兩黨違反好謝謝鍾嘉賓委員的發言接下來我們請羅志強委員發言陳昭志委員請準備"},{"start":12408.379,"end":12410.2,"text":"民進黨就是造謠黨"},{"start":12412.402,"end":12430.378,"text":"國防部打臉你 圈改條例修法只是用50戶民進黨還在繼續造謠國防部打臉你 這50戶是遷移不是改建民進黨還繼續造謠"},{"start":12433.978,"end":12452.734,"text":"國防部打臉你政府因為只是遷移沒有改建不會多花一毛錢民進黨還打個標語說國庫損失上千億民進黨是窮到只是想說謊嗎民進黨是多麼可惡的政黨我告訴大家"},{"start":12453.959,"end":12478.498,"text":"今天眷改條例當時適用的慈仁八村就是因為國防部書師被丟包的最後一個眷村啦我們經過兩年的協商國防部包括民進黨當時協商的委員都說國防部的書師不該由慈仁八村的眷戶來背"},{"start":12480.6,"end":12508.239,"text":"應該要解決這個歷史工業問題所以我們不斷跟國防部磋商但國防部告訴大家因為眷改條例的範圍年期他漏包了丟包了十人八村所以把眷村的那個期限拉開以後可以解決最後一戶五十戶眷戶的遷移問題不是改建問題"},{"start":12509.68,"end":12529.166,"text":"那我要告訴民進黨不只是說謊黨它還是個擺爛黨本來協商民進黨都說要解決問題到最後一次韓院長主持的時候翻供啦我們的柯建民總召跟他講我們民進黨沒有要解決問題我告訴大家民進黨不解決問題造成什麼問題你知道嗎"},{"start":12530.307,"end":12545.993,"text":"由於15年前就已經蓋好的萬榮新社讓慈仁八村50臥親過去你民進黨擺爛10年結果呢萬榮新社空在那裡養蚊子15年每年花1200萬維護費過去15年花了快2億未來30年還要再花3億"},{"start":12552.148,"end":12577.656,"text":"民進黨擺爛在虧空國庫他不在乎嘛第二個國防部要把慈仁八村縣子現在民眾不堪居住的地方整修成植物宿舍15年來沒辦法整修被審計部糾正政府擺爛每年花1200萬還讓植物宿舍沒辦法進行還讓萬榮新社繼續破舊下去可能毀壞"},{"start":12579.376,"end":12602.786,"text":"羅志強負責任的解決問題解決這個歷史工業彌平國庫的虧損活用國家資產民進黨你擺爛在幹什麼你擺爛羅志強解決謝謝謝謝羅志強委員的發言接下來我們請登記最後一位第三號陳昭之委員請發言"},{"start":12611.36,"end":12640.188,"text":"主席各位同事推動修法國軍老舊眷村改建條例是在解決歷史的工業而且還是政府跟國防部的疏失造成的歷史工業這個修法的方向實在是回應現行的法治因為年代劃分過於僵化導致部分實際老舊無法居住條件不佳的這個眷村長期沒有辦法透過制度性的途徑來解決現實的一個困境"},{"start":12641.766,"end":12671.486,"text":"那麼我要說的是國防部花了5億然後為此人八尊蓋了新眷舍閒置到今天15年那開銷沒有辦法認定每年還要花1200萬去維護管理已經被審計部糾正了然後此人八尊眷戶的權益也因為政府的疏失而被犧牲了我再說一次是政府自己的疏失造成這些對財務的黑洞跟不公平的對待"},{"start":12672.386,"end":12692.095,"text":"這個眷顧所以推動修法基本上是幫政府在做解套是幫政府解決疏失所帶來的問題可以創造市營解決供應第一每年可以填平每年1200萬的管理費用可以活用資產讓新捐贈不再是五人子營"},{"start":12693.275,"end":12719.281,"text":"讓慈仁八孫縣市可以釋出更多的植物宿舍最後若慈仁八孫眷屋他們要搬還要負擔部分的經費反過來可以來挹注這個國庫台灣民眾黨一向是本於以人民為本重視居住爭議的立場認為法律的制度本來就應該隨著社會條件跟實際的需求而調整而不是讓過時的規範成為行政怠惰或問題延宕的藉口"},{"start":12720.081,"end":12742.731,"text":"將行政機關面對既有的這個眷村居住安全管理效能還有資源運用的問題卻因為法令的限制沒有辦法提出可行的方案透過立法修正來排除居住單案這是立法應有的責任本期再次強調這個修法不是擴張到全部的眷居範圍而是針對特定的歷史問題必要的調整"},{"start":12743.751,"end":12770.237,"text":"實務上確實有需要的眷屋得以解決長年居住的困境為了避免公共資源持續的閒置跟浪費文化既有的安置設施我們民眾黨支持羅志強委員這樣的提案謝謝好 謝謝陳昭之委員的歡迎歡迎會我們開始進行逐條討論請宣讀國民黨團版本之羅志強委員等提案第三條"},{"start":12771.414,"end":12786.22,"text":"第三條本條例所稱國軍老舊住院村指本條例公佈是先前完成之軍劵住宅且有改建制必要並具有下列各款情形之一一 政府興建分配者二 中華婦女反共聯合會"},{"start":12787,"end":12805.383,"text":"捐款興建者三 政府提供土地由鑽戶自費興建者四 其他經營主管機關認定者本條例所稱原鑽戶系指領有主管機關或其所屬權責機關合法之國軍鑽設居住憑證或公文書之國軍老舊鑽村住戶宣讀完畢"},{"start":12806.96,"end":12819.764,"text":"我們現在進行表決羅志強委員等提案條文現在有民進黨團要求記名表決我們開始記名表決時間一分鐘贊成羅志強委員等提案 請按贊成反對 請按反對現在開始"},{"start":12833.808,"end":12834.932,"text":"國父至上千億"},{"start":12896.228,"end":12910.441,"text":"報告表決結果 出席108位 贊成59位 反對49位 贊成者多數第三條 照羅志強委員等提案通過報告表決結果 出席108位 贊成59位 反對49位 贊成者多數第三條 照羅志強委員等提案通過報告表決結果 出席108位 贊成59位 反對49位 贊成者多數第三條 照羅志強委員等提案通過"},{"start":12918.089,"end":12943.736,"text":"第三條本條例所稱國軍老舊眷村指本條例公佈事行前興建完成之軍眷住宅且有改建之必要並具有下列個款情形之一一 政府興建分配者二 中華婦女反共聯合會捐款興建者三 政府提供土地由眷戶自費興建者四 其他經營主管機關認定者本條例所稱原眷戶細致領有主管機關或其所屬權責機關合法之國軍"},{"start":12945.777,"end":12967.185,"text":"捐赦居住凭证或公文述职国军老旧眷村住户宣读完毕我们三读条文已经宣读完毕请愿会有文字修正并文字修正我们做以下决议国军老旧眷村改建条例第三条条文修正通过"},{"start":12972.648,"end":12986.033,"text":"我們現在進入討論事項第五案公共電視法第十六條及第四十九條條文修正草案本案經第四會期第十七次會議決議另訂其處理抱怨會 本案已經完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":12987.808,"end":13002.935,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間115年1月13日星期二上午9時30分地點立法院紅樓302會議室相主題公共電視法第16條及第49條條文修正查案"},{"start":13003.715,"end":13032.775,"text":"行政結論一 保留條文送請院會處理第16條二 不予修正維持現行條文第49條三 本院院會進行處理時廣泛討論由各黨團各推派一人發言逐條討論及三讀完成後均不發言逐條時保留條文依黨團版本先後進行表決四 本案各項提議均列入公報紀錄主持人韓國瑜江啟臣相代表羅志強 林沛翔"},{"start":13033.374,"end":13055.185,"text":"復婚期科見民眾嘉賓陳培宜 張綺凱 陳昭芝 黃國昌宣讀完畢請問議會對以上詞語協商有無異議沒有異議的話我們後續依照協商結論進行處理我們現在進行廣泛討論請各黨派推派的代表進行發言首先請羅志強委員發言 劉淑冰委員請準備"},{"start":13063.53,"end":13090.565,"text":"今天非常巧兩個法律都是因為民進黨擺爛造成的民進黨就是個徹頭徹尾的擺爛黨所以剛剛前面的捲改條例在擺爛之外別人解決問題他還在造謠現在公示法也是在擺爛為什麼呢我告訴各位公示法第七屆董監事三年任期在去年5月19日屆滿"},{"start":13091.874,"end":13115.559,"text":"依照公事法規定文化部應該要在前年的11月底就提新一屆的董監事名單完成改併可是文化部一路擺爛一路讓公事的董監事無限延任他暫時的依據是什麼就是現在的公事法有萬年延任條款"},{"start":13116.806,"end":13128.65,"text":"他只要不提名單沒有新的董監事人選產生現在的民進黨的所謂的公視的董監事就可以無限的繼續的"},{"start":13130.868,"end":13156.114,"text":"言論下去所以今天國民黨跟民眾黨我們今天就是來徹底解決讓這種所謂的無限言論的擺爛條款能夠把它終結我也看到等到我們提出修法要把擺爛條款拿掉之後終於看到文化部動起來"},{"start":13156.954,"end":13179.267,"text":"文化部才終於姍姍來遲的把新的董監事名單提出來問題這個題我也跟各位講賴清德總統你真的是你一定是要把自己正名不如蔡英文總統嗎至少上一屆的董監事還會遵循在野黨的意見啊"},{"start":13180.658,"end":13192.017,"text":"結果呢 民進黨現在獨斷的提出董建勢之後最後審查委員依專業獨立審查認為說這些文化部提出來的人"},{"start":13193.235,"end":13218.721,"text":"並不試任 所以通過四個名單民進黨又再開始大肆的造謠我回頭講一件最重要的事情第一個 拜託民進黨不要每天只會鑽法律漏洞不干事本來嚴任條款今天是幫助一個有心做事的政府好好的提出董監事的名單然後讓董公事能夠順利的運作"},{"start":13220.501,"end":13244.424,"text":"但是這樣的法律到民進黨手上就變成今天為了要留任他所喜歡的所謂的民進黨的董監事然後呢濫用這個制度性的一個缺口開始變成所謂的無限延任所以今天修法我們就是要拿掉這一個擺爛的條款讓公視今天好好的提出董監事名單 謝謝"},{"start":13246.269,"end":13251.005,"text":"好 謝謝羅志強委員的發言接下來我們請劉淑斌委員發言范雲委員請準備"},{"start":13263.288,"end":13289.918,"text":"主席各位委員公共電視是屬於國民全體的公共資源董建市他必須具備了中立客觀跟專業的條件來維繫公視的超然獨立性現今的公共電視法呢他規定的在董建市任期滿六個月之前呢就必須要由行政院來做提名但是到現在的到"},{"start":13290.638,"end":13305.716,"text":"到去年12月17號才正式做了提名目前現在的總監事還利用了16條的巧門只要位級改選 屆期就自動的延任這個巧門延任到現在"},{"start":13310.942,"end":13331.258,"text":"那監察院呢也對公共電視董監事的延宕提名還有作業呢他已經提出來了調查也做了糾正了對於行政院跟文化部做出來糾正了要求的是趕快的去做修法來去做相關的"},{"start":13332.139,"end":13358.731,"text":"這樣的漏洞補起來那因為也是因為這個原因呢那民眾黨呢跟國民黨呢提出來了修訂的版本就是針對這樣子的萬年的公共電視總監事的情形呢提出了對第16條的修訂那第16條裡面呢就是刪除了現在第二項裡面的後段的自動的延任的條款"},{"start":13359.651,"end":13380.579,"text":"要使得董監事的任期在屆滿他結束時就喪失了董監事的資格來終結萬年的董事這樣的亂象大家知道公共電視是非常重要的資源因為如果沒有讓他順利的運作的話會發生重要的問題"},{"start":13383.5,"end":13401.908,"text":"為此本黨的需求在公共電視的這個治理運作的時候呢必須要趕快恢復到正常的正軌才能夠是發揮它原來的作用那也請各位委員呢來支持謝謝劉書斌委員的發言接下來我們請登記最後一位范雲委員請發言"},{"start":13411.601,"end":13423.767,"text":"坐在台下要聽從來沒有當過一天教文委員的羅志強講公事還有還當不到一個會期的劉書斌委員講公事真的是非常痛苦的一件事情"},{"start":13425.001,"end":13447.501,"text":"上一屆教文委員會我想我們 萬美玲委員在她就知道我們因為文化部提出來的董事人選不斷地被杯葛所以我們修正了公事法把全任公事董監事需要的同意比例從高難度的四分之三門檻改為三分之二但是新上任的小野部長"},{"start":13448.602,"end":13476.558,"text":"上任了還是沒有辦法解決問題小野部長說問題不是延任而是提名不斷的被推翻事實上的是大家看一下這次羅志強提出來的他要怎麼解決他的版本是審查被否決後如果沒有一個月內提名就不得延任提醒大家公視的董建是不是肥缺他是沒有薪水的志工"},{"start":13477.838,"end":13497.124,"text":"問題是如果藍白好主要是藍營不分青紅皂白的杯葛優秀的文化人杯葛優秀的企業家杯葛優秀的文化跟傳播學者有誰願意繼續來立法院被羞辱你們說沒有啊我們看一下小野部長之前過去有誰被否決"},{"start":13498.024,"end":13525.614,"text":"我出生學界我看到的是政大傳播新聞教授柯玉芬你去研究一下他有沒有發表過支持民進黨的話我保證你google不到他是做文化研究研究電視史在新聞系教授的優秀學者還有政大傳播學院院長郭立新他還經常發表批判民進黨政府的學者他研究傳播政策研究紀錄片等"},{"start":13526.714,"end":13544.135,"text":"導演賀兆提他是歐美亞洲獲獎無數他是單純的文化人你找不到他的黨派色彩完全被否決這一次我多次質詢林委員部長為什麼沒有辦法提出他說他到處拜託三顧茅廬找不到人願意來這裡被藍營羞辱"},{"start":13546.337,"end":13574.858,"text":"最近一次在去年年底剛剛羅志強宣稱太陽出來是因為他喊一下的出來的提名名單14位董事候選人很不幸只通過4位誰被否決了知名企業家施政榮原住民歌手金曲獎歌手舒敏恩還有在座可能也不少人聽過的國際知名的金獎演員陳湘琪請問他們有什麼政黨色彩"},{"start":13575.558,"end":13601.11,"text":"如果延任是擺爛剛剛羅志強說徹頭徹尾的擺爛我要提醒大家第四屆公視董監事延任968天遠比現在長你是在說國民黨的馬英九擺爛了三年嗎我就要講公視不是不能改革但是羅志強的提案根本是要癱瘓董事會謝謝范雲委員的發言"},{"start":13605.148,"end":13632.842,"text":"官院會本案保留條文請宣讀院會所收黨團版本修正動議區提案內容均列入公報記錄我們現在進行逐條討論請宣讀第十六條台灣民眾黨黨團 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在場的委員先進尤其是待會要來發言的羅志強委員我們來看一看這個《眷改條例》 個案立法特快車這個案子難道有關十人八村嗎"},{"start":19.141,"end":46.071,"text":"大法官有夠解釋國家對於有限資源的分配不能只照顧特定族群必須要考量一般國民的感受我們來看一看待會羅惠媛對本案還有國眾兩黨背書的捐款條例有何感受這個案子在去年4月交付審查外交國防一次審查然後到年底就抽出禁錮二讀年底完成了"},{"start":47.664,"end":68.943,"text":"黨團協商就在前天院長主持朝野協商今天就要交付表決這是什麼案子這麼急迫可能有人會說這個沒有啦這才50個人拖了十幾年持來的正義我們來告訴大家什麼叫做正義當年的眷改條例造成的結果國債目前國庫還要負責將近2000億的短處虧損"},{"start":74.278,"end":99.827,"text":"而民國85年捐改條例通過之後當時落成僅7年78年的慈仁八村居然被列入了要改善的老舊眷村天啊慈仁八村78年落成距離85年只有7年的時間居然列入要改建的老舊眷村這不是弊案 什麼是弊案果然99年接受檢舉100年"},{"start":102.567,"end":109.794,"text":"偵查終結國防部撤銷成人八村不得享有眷村改建的資格"},{"start":111.212,"end":138.753,"text":"眷戶持續的進行行政訴訟104年上述駁回判決確定而且兩度遭到大法官不予受理釋憲因此到了105年政黨輪替前夕行政院由林鄭哲政務委員召集1月5號完成協調由國防部提案結果就在5月11號5月11號就送到立法院來"},{"start":140.305,"end":151.66,"text":"隔個下個月行政院改組行政院撤回案子這是什麼案子這不是救濟案這是特權案這是弊案"},{"start":152.642,"end":170.204,"text":"而且羅志強委員的修法把69年12月30日拿掉之後現在當年85年依眷改條例新建完成的眷舍都有可能援引慈仁八村的例子"},{"start":170.965,"end":187.449,"text":"要求包括像羅志強委員 國民黨 民眾黨不顧社會公平政策委員個案修法貪圖個人的私利破壞人民的居住正義我們在這裡要提醒社會記住這一天這一天有國眾兩黨違反"}]}},{"id":"167117","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167117","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d1edf3028ce2a04dde982f7934814b91ebade3e1811d726c6c09b8c189df7679ae209839394804ef5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"09:07:21 - 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普惠同仁 媒体朋友 全国民众 大家好理性能源治理深化国家韧性本席今天要讨论的是台海情势当中经常被过度简化却深刻影响战略判断的关键因素 能源国际舆论认为"},{"start":31.767,"end":51.429,"text":"美国只要掌握了委内瑞拉跟伊朗的石油出口就足以重创中共当局的三分之一的能源供给然而实际情况是中共的原油进口结构呈现高度分散的情况主要的来源还是集中在中东与俄罗斯合成的比重"},{"start":52.29,"end":72.865,"text":"大約六成委內瑞拉跟伊朗的比例僅介於一到一成五當中因此美國的戰略不是立即切斷供應而是藉由金融結算航運調度保險體系等制度優勢來提高中共取得能源的成本與不確定性這樣的制裁模式對於衝突"},{"start":74.066,"end":98.68,"text":"衝突出擊的軍事行動其實約束力有限中共已經建立了相當規模的戰略能源儲備然而一旦轉成長期消耗戰能源的壓力就不再只是邊際的變數而是會直接影響民生 工業運作與社會穩定當低成本去風險化的能源管道受限勢必承受更高的戰略溢價"},{"start":99.46,"end":125.433,"text":"这种战后长期沉压的结构性风险才是真正对决策层构成实质嚇阻的关键从中华民国的角度出发这至少带来三项重要的启示第一台海的安全不是只有军事问题而是深度的堪入了全球能源金融与供应链的结构性议题政府必须持续的让国际间清楚"},{"start":126.033,"end":150.805,"text":"台海衝突將衝擊全球經濟制度的穩定第二政府必須要正視能源韌性所承載的國安意涵無論是能源來源的多元化戰略儲備量能電網的穩定度以及降低對單一能源的依賴更不能預設跟排除任何發電的選項包括核能"},{"start":151.545,"end":177.507,"text":"第三中華民國應持續的扮演穩定而不是局勢的一個催化劑的角色不僅應該積極來推動兩岸的和平穩定的現狀更應該透過民主夥伴等能源安全金融韌性與供應鏈重組上的深化合作讓任何企圖以武力來改變現狀的行為都必須要承受高昂且長期性的結構性代價"},{"start":178.328,"end":195.036,"text":"能源不是政府用來製造恐慌的工具而是預防地緣變局的戰略基礎當全球體系已經高度聯動真正具有嚇阻力的往往不是情緒與口號而是理性務實與結構性的制衡這是中華民國在動彈"},{"start":205.461,"end":208.497,"text":"謝謝林倩琦委員的發言我們現在登記國事論壇"}]}},{"id":"167116","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167116","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d1edf3028ce2a04d92a4133a4726f1a0ebade3e1811d726c6c09b8c189df76793b1f0242bc217b355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"09:04:00 - 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主席還有各位同仁今天我們特別提到的就是有關於一些我們新興的計劃那屬於有急迫性以及民生性的預算我們把它提出來眾所皆知現在中央政府總預算的困境就是在於現在行政院違法不編列對於我們軍人以及退休警消的預算"},{"start":37.379,"end":53.668,"text":"剛才宗嘉斌委員說人民好像乞丐一樣要敲碗才有急迫性但是我的質疑是我們現在我們的軍人我們的警消對於民進黨來說是連乞丐都不如啊"},{"start":55.364,"end":81.103,"text":"當他們敲碗當他們希望能夠編列應該法定預算的時候可是民進黨政府不聞不問所以在這邊為什麼中央政府總預算遇到這樣的僵局民進黨政府賴清德總統卓榮泰院長要負起百分之百的責任"},{"start":81.923,"end":109.73,"text":"但是在这边我们也看到一些新兴的计划里面跟民生相关还有它有急迫性的譬如说T-pass譬如说生育补助以及治水预算以及对地方政府的补助的部分我们在这边我们希望在合法合于预算法的规定之下我们先行做处理"},{"start":110.69,"end":135.511,"text":"這是作為我們在野黨我們負責任的願意去解決現在預算的僵局這樣的態度才是正確的態度如果例如像剛才王逸川委員在這邊只會提高聲量來問在野黨我想請問一下現在到底誰在執政"},{"start":136.292,"end":164.102,"text":"我想請問一下現在誰在當總統誰在當行政院長如果你們執政如此無能如果你們執政沒有辦法解決民生的問題如果你們執政不能夠回應人民的需要的時候那麼當然我們在野黨願意負起責任所以這不叫做為德不足"},{"start":164.662,"end":191.585,"text":"因为这是我们面对现在所有人民所需要的问题我们负责任的去解决问题所以在这边我要跟全体的国民来报告我也要再一次的为我们的军人跟我们的警校请命当我们看到花莲外海我们的F16V的我们的飞官的"},{"start":198.804,"end":200.452,"text":"谢谢王文伟的发言"}]}},{"id":"167121","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167121","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d1edf3028ce2a04daa400636fb267451ebade3e1811d726c52da594ae4c6e74e0fb57351b41a9d0d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"11:29:14 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獨小主席 剛才國民黨的這個暴君旗 宗教啊 說得還不錯說得還不錯 我很快把他餓了 他說要民生為重要啦齁我當作他 長命吃魚 要吃到現在煩盡了他剩下這麼多 你已經七八幾天出來當他你們國民黨是怎麼空空的"},{"start":33.581,"end":60.229,"text":"你覺得你補運氣在唸的時候啊唸得這樣啼啼吐吐他可能也不知道你在唸什麼你不知道你腦袋有夠多的你腦袋兩千多億 兩千多億裡面欸 我今天跟你講一個T-Bus你就隨隨便便唸T-Bus我跟你講滴水 你就講滴水學人精裡面還有很多的我們還沒唸的我不能我現在是跟你說喔我們這兩天如果還有唸對幾條出來你不能再對喔"},{"start":63.252,"end":86.221,"text":"因為你們現在是為這幾條最重要 其他都沒有重要沒有人真啊 沒有人真你看他們不想心意上 還對經來經去 講經這幾個還搞不清楚對幾條叫做民生相關今天去啦 你們今天要退出來這裡台灣人都看得到你們是為這最重要"},{"start":88.615,"end":102.628,"text":"還有咕嚕跳的醫生 你們都不想信國防的醫生 不想信特別條例 不想信你們的黨主席 給我關心一件事說喔 台灣叫美國人 叫我講15%阿拉伯叫中國一樣 衝一下40幾%來看看"},{"start":108.12,"end":131.015,"text":"可憐 喔 你那董主席 今天要衝衝那麼高的今天15% 這樣你們有開心嗎 還是你們今天還要出來賣今天去通過這個 我跟你說 通過這個代表什麼代表你們選擇性啦 董事長說這愛 過路到明星 堆一條不是明星 你說"},{"start":132.356,"end":158.729,"text":"國民黨你現在公開說 後面還有黃宏偉叫黃孟楷 你們說你們今天沒有來 四季計畫 兩千多人對一條不是民生重要的 站出來說站出來說 指名道姓 看對一條 要保守對 要做對 堅實的不是民生需要的 後面還有黃宏偉叫黃孟楷你們兩個站出來說看看說到這七百多重要 其他兩千多人都沒有重要"},{"start":162.051,"end":184.604,"text":"讓我們聽聽看 讓台灣人民了解說原來你國民黨 叫這個民眾黨 投降在這裡現在全台灣 今天講的這七八幾億是重要的其他一點都不重要你不可以空空的 這幾天喔 老老說對幾條重要不可以再講韓國的 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在場委員先進中華民國行縣史來首次有立法院要處理根據預設法第54條當新興計劃因為能審議完均 使得動資受到限制的時候要提經立法院同意後來動資今天我們很好奇的是三個問題"},{"start":30.837,"end":45.006,"text":"國民黨跟民進黨所列的這718億他們認為重大 急迫攸關民生我們要問的不是它是否重大我們要問的是2992億的另外2274億的新興"},{"start":52.37,"end":73.305,"text":"資本計畫哪一項不重要哪一項不急迫哪一項不攸關民生請國眾兩黨告訴人民除了這718億之外其他的2200多億哪一項不重要哪一項不攸關民生哪一項不急迫第二我們要請教國眾兩黨"},{"start":75.56,"end":92.436,"text":"那麼你如何知道這些急迫因為總預算根本未交付審議你怎麼區別2991當中這718億特別重要 特別急迫 特別攸關民生你們是看項目嗎"},{"start":94.366,"end":106.736,"text":"如果你們看項目就可以做出判斷了我們要問第三個問題既然你有能力已經判斷預算當中的優先緩急數額多寡你為什麼不審議"},{"start":108.629,"end":126.544,"text":"目前115年度的中央政府總預算由於藍白的抵制跟杯葛遲遲未能交付審議不能符合預算法51條的規定因此根據54條這些新興資本計畫必須等立法院完成審議後始得動之"},{"start":128.666,"end":151.645,"text":"這個就是我們憲法規定的精神立法院是踩煞車 行政院是加油門預算編制權在行政院 立法院只能審議 只能踩油門因為憲法其實要寫立法院對行政院所提預算案不得為增加支出之提議很清楚 一個是油門 一個是煞車今天你們說 張祺凱說解鈴還需細鈴人 我說錯"},{"start":155.376,"end":180.716,"text":"今天你們是白蛇跟許仙一方面放毒讓我們重要的2992億攸關人民 民生 重大急迫的不能夠完成審訊進行執行而你們要當許仙 要當好人要說我把你這718億先行放行你叫其他2200多億影響的人民情何以堪啊"},{"start":181.457,"end":186.843,"text":"人民要像乞丐一樣我718億我敲完了你才給我我另外2200億我不敲碗"}]}},{"id":"167118","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167118","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d1edf3028ce2a04d9be0fa6b9c21f2dcebade3e1811d726c52da594ae4c6e74e16d77fa562bcf7fe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"11:18:41 - 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交通安全跟便利的TPAS要趕快過今天民眾黨跟國民黨提出優先來處理 趕快放行我們要提醒上個月"},{"start":30.475,"end":52.164,"text":"在討論行政院砍了地方的補助款包括血統的營養午餐治水的預算民進黨黨議大議民意民進黨絕大部分的立法委員投票的結果是贊成砍地方補助款今天"},{"start":54.366,"end":58.438,"text":"在野黨提出依照預算法第54條也就是"},{"start":61.516,"end":89.894,"text":"不關門的這個機制我們對於新興的這個計畫可以先經過立法院會通過以後馬上放行包括TPAS行政院通勤業票的執行計畫還有公保生意給付差額的補助2.35億還有河川整治跟排水的整體改善計畫還有攸關國防安全的"},{"start":90.814,"end":117.362,"text":"AS365N海豚型機隊的升級中程計畫等一下請大家注意看民進黨的立委是不是又是黨議大移民議不通過TPAS的預算不通過防洪治水的預算不通過國防安全的預算另外賴清德總統說要趕快審總預算要慎應廣大的民意"},{"start":120.936,"end":128.051,"text":"台灣民眾黨最近做了一個大型的民調結果發現 問說你支不支持"},{"start":129.375,"end":154.975,"text":"行政部門應該趕快編除立法院通過的金人加薪跟警消的所得替代率提高高達67.6%的民眾都是贊成的反對只有18%進一步問如果不趕快補足是不是就先不要審結果51比37絕大部分的民眾也認為行政要趕快把它編除事實上"},{"start":156.136,"end":180.168,"text":"這個也是去年的解決方案去年經過朝野協商行政院長卓榮泰說趕快把該邊的邊竹去年就解開了解零還需細零人所以請行政院趕快邊竹該邊的預算金人的加薪景銷所得替代率這是一個治本的方法去年成功了那治標的方法就今天在野黨所提出來的"},{"start":180.948,"end":194.62,"text":"我們啟動不關門條款我們先讓新的計畫 包括剛剛提的跟民生經濟有關的讓他先行通過 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我告訴大家今天眷改條例當時適用的慈仁八村就是因為國防部書師被丟包的最後一個眷村啦"},{"start":74.269,"end":86.527,"text":"我們經過兩年的協商國防部包括民進黨當時協商的委員都說國防部的疏失不該由十人八村的建戶來背"},{"start":88.62,"end":116.246,"text":"應該要解決這個歷史工業問題所以我們不斷跟國防部磋商在國防部告訴大家因為眷改條例的範圍年期他漏包了丟包了十人八村所以把眷村的那個期限拉開以後可以解決最後一戶50戶眷戶的遷移問題不是改建問題"},{"start":117.711,"end":137.205,"text":"那我要告訴民進黨不只是說謊黨它還是個擺爛黨本來協商民進黨都說要解決問題到最後一次韓院長主持的時候翻供啦我們的柯建民總召跟他講我們民進黨沒有要解決問題我告訴大家民進黨不解決問題造成什麼問題你知道嗎"},{"start":138.328,"end":154.024,"text":"由於15年前就已經蓋好的萬榮新社讓慈仁八村50臥親過去你民進黨擺爛10年結果呢萬榮新社空在那裡養蚊子15年每年花1200萬維護費過去15年花了快2億未來30年還要再花3億"},{"start":160.168,"end":185.677,"text":"民進黨擺爛在虧空國庫他不在乎嘛第二個國防部要把慈仁八村縣子現在民眾不堪居住的地方整修成植物宿舍15年來沒辦法整修被審計部糾正政府擺爛每年花1200萬還讓植物宿舍沒辦法進行還讓萬榮新社繼續破舊下去可能毀壞"},{"start":187.397,"end":191.382,"text":"羅志強負責任的解決問題解決這個歷史工業彌平國庫的虧損活用國家資產 民進黨你擺爛在幹什麼你擺爛 羅志強解決 謝謝"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}