{"total":{"value":68,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2026-01-19"],"total_page":1,"ivods":[{"id":"167132","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167132","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8519a9073e0d3034bb6e1f8a6d37bdd8b8974637afa3742303e826982371071214a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"09:12:13 - 09:15:05","影片長度":"00:02:52","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:12:13+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:15:05+08:00","duration":172,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.26284375,"end":4.097843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.392218750000001,"end":50.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.23409375,"end":148.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.95284375,"end":169.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.62034375000002,"end":171.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.47659375,"end":172.69596875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.22,"end":1.3,"text":"有兩個案請一併說明 謝謝"},{"start":12.065,"end":32.359,"text":"主席 各位同仁 各位與會的官員 大家早我就先進行相關的提案說明我跟多位委員及行政機關都有提出的這個藥事法跟藥害救濟法部分條文的修正草案最核心的目標基本上就是為了要建立一套更有韌性的藥品供應穩定監測機制"},{"start":34.58,"end":49.551,"text":"并且同时能够确保民众在特殊用药的情形之下有好的救济权益首先在药市法的强化监控方面自COVID-19的疫情以来全球药品的供应链不稳"},{"start":50.553,"end":65.62,"text":"藥方的問題時有所聞為了讓主管機關能夠及早的因應所以本次的修正裡面包括一要主動的申報要求持有必要藥品許可證的藥商應定期申報製造輸入"},{"start":67.341,"end":90.038,"text":"供應規劃及庫存情形不再只是等到這個短缺的時候才通報而是要從源頭就開始預警二彈性專案核准當藥品供應不足或發生重大影響公共衛生情勢例如有特定傳染性的疾病預防的時候主管機關可以專案核准製造或輸入並得視需求來"},{"start":90.738,"end":116.665,"text":"限制供应对象数量或范围以确保医疗资源的配置的公平性第三个就是法则的配套针对申报不实或者是未依限这个通报者增订相应的这个行政法则以落实药商的社会责任其次有关于药害救济法的同步配套为了要确保民众用药的权利我们必须补足救济制度的漏洞"},{"start":117.265,"end":134.661,"text":"那現行的法規只有只有領有許可證的藥物才適用救濟但未來要因應缺藥或者是緊急公共衛生事情而狀況核准的藥品其性質同樣是為了滿足普遍性的這個醫療的需求因此我們修正了合法藥物的定義將這些"},{"start":136.343,"end":148.241,"text":"專案核准的藥品納入保障範圍讓民眾即使在緊急狀況下使用這些藥物若不幸發生要害也能夠及時獲得救濟不因行政流程的簡化而讓權益縮水"},{"start":149.185,"end":171.034,"text":"藥品供應是國安問題而用藥安全與救濟選擇是人權問題透過這兩項法律的銜接修正我們希望能夠建構一個藥品進來供應看得到藥害有保障的完善體制以上說明請各位委員同仁支持謝謝 謝謝大家也謝謝主席好 謝謝好"}]}},{"id":"167131","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167131","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8515d150ce8bb150107e1f8a6d37bdd8b8974637afa3742303e826982371071214a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"09:08:29 - 09:12:06","影片長度":"00:03:37","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:08:29+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:12:06+08:00","duration":217,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.047843750000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.16596875,"end":1.8534687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.240343750000001,"end":11.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.67034375,"end":36.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.46409375,"end":36.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.548468750000005,"end":79.79909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.50784375,"end":112.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.55346875000001,"end":118.45971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.28659375000001,"end":126.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.75346875,"end":194.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.61659375000002,"end":215.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.04346875000002,"end":218.62971875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.289,"end":0.97,"text":"收到完好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":12.748,"end":36.738,"text":"主席 藥害救濟法第三條條文修正喔那鑒於為周延整個藥害的救濟範圍保障民眾用藥的一個權益並配合藥事法的修正喔使民眾用藥如發生藥害時能夠及時得到救濟所以這一次呢修正第二款的合法藥物的一個定義使因應具有藥品許可證藥品有不足供應情形呢因應"},{"start":37.838,"end":60.996,"text":"緊急的一個重大或者是公共衛生的一個情勢之專案核准的一個藥品適用要害救濟的一個制度緩止我們特拟據在這一次的第三條條文修正以強化整個要害救濟制度的一個周圍性完善民眾用藥後的一個保障維護公共衛生安全這個是要害救濟法第三條條文修正"},{"start":61.696,"end":73.149,"text":"另外我提出的藥事法第55條條文修正依據衛生福利部113年9月11日未售實質地130023750號藥物樣品的正品管理辦法"},{"start":80.575,"end":100.95,"text":"第17條核准專案製造的一個輸入之藥品藥物的一個樣品不得出售有關是否涉及出售之行為原則是其費用是否超出藥品相關製造及供應成本的費用而定為使藥品樣品"},{"start":102.251,"end":125.072,"text":"不得出售相關的一個規定明確化鑰匙法第55條修法依據的是來自衛福部正式公文還由此對於這個母法及清楚的揭示、藥品、樣品不得出售之判斷的一個基準以強化規範的明確性避免實務的一個爭議"},{"start":128.8,"end":156.014,"text":"另外我對要釋法第27條第48條以及第96條這個之一條文的一個修正草案呢鑑於國內的藥品樣藥品若有無法持續的這個製造輸入或者是不足供應之情形呢如未能在短時間取得適量的藥品恐使國人在生命身體健康有遭遇的一個傷害"},{"start":156.434,"end":176.673,"text":"考量國內公共衛生需求及參酌食物的作業參考政府採購法第105條的規定增訂為因應重大公共的衛生情勢之需要得申請專案核准製造或輸入不受《藥事法》第39條規定的限制"},{"start":179.375,"end":204.832,"text":"另為加強監控必要的藥品供應之情形新增必要的一個藥品之許可證持有藥商應定期申報該類的藥品之製造輸入供應之情形所以在這一次藥事法第27條之二第48條之二以及第96條之一條文修正草案確保國內藥品"},{"start":207.494,"end":218.069,"text":"穩定的供應 維護民眾用藥安全跟公共衛生以上是我所做的一個提案說明 謝謝好 謝謝陸委員的提案說明"}]}},{"id":"167137","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167137","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851c236fbb95daeaba4b95c18876f783d4d74637afa3742303e3c866e876d24eab55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"09:06:42 - 09:09:10","影片長度":"00:02:28","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：一、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部組織法第二條、第五條及第八條條文修正草案」案等16案。\n二、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持署組織法草案」案等14案。\n三、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部長期照顧及社會發展署組織法草案」案等12案。\n四、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部中央健康保險署組織法第二條條文修正草案」案等8案。\n五、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例草案」案等8案。\n六、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「國家中醫研究院設置條例草案」案等14案。\n【詳見議事日程】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:06:42+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:09:10+08:00","duration":148,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[36,26],"id":"聯席會議-11-4-36,26-2"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.22909375,"end":3.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.39784375,"end":2.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.856593750000002,"end":13.750343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.172218750000003,"end":140.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.38846875000002,"end":150.15096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.28,"end":2.004,"text":"所以要跟你說一下"},{"start":8.888,"end":36.941,"text":"感謝我們的召委感謝主席這次的排案那衛福部這一次的組織法修正中我想大家也都非常關注而且是很重要的亮點莫過於將12年前裁撤的兒童局重新納入體制設立兒少級家庭支持署然而本席關切的是兒家署未來定位為三級機關是否真的能有效發揮跨部會跨體系的橫向整合功能"},{"start":37.501,"end":54.207,"text":"那我想關鍵也不僅在於組織是否成立更在於治理模式可不可以真正的轉型否則呢也難以務實的回應少子化與兒少發展的結構性挑戰那我想未來兒家屬也應該以跨域治理為核心"},{"start":54.747,"end":78.962,"text":"那也建立制度化的橫向協調機制實質的串聯醫療、社福教育與司法體系避免政策各自為政資源零碎分散那本席也要特別提醒在醫療與社福的整合上相關的預算當然也必須要足夠和到位還有人員也要到位才能將早期介入與預防導向真正落實"},{"start":80.143,"end":107.017,"text":"那另外在職長定位上兒家屬不應只有既有的業務的診病單位而應該成為政策創新的引擎所以青少年政策應該涵蓋身心健康和風險行為預防與社會參與那家庭支持與育兒支持則需要回應不同生命階段與多元家庭型態提供連續且可進的支持服務"},{"start":108.118,"end":129.775,"text":"那最後呢所有政策目標能否落實當然仍然取決於這個人力預算以及整體的制度設計是不是都有到位那兒家屬的正式編制的人力與年度預算規模為何然後成立後呢國家整體兒少相關預算在中央政府總預算及GDP的比例是否定有明確的成長目標"},{"start":132.237,"end":140.443,"text":"與其成也是檢視政府對兒童權益長期承諾的關鍵指標好那謝謝感謝感謝我們的主席謝謝好謝謝廖委員韋翔的提案說明接下來請林"}]}},{"id":"167136","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167136","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851cfaa5977c96b0bd9b95c18876f783d4d74637afa3742303e3c866e876d24eab55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"09:03:40 - 09:06:30","影片長度":"00:02:50","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：一、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部組織法第二條、第五條及第八條條文修正草案」案等16案。\n二、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持署組織法草案」案等14案。\n三、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部長期照顧及社會發展署組織法草案」案等12案。\n四、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部中央健康保險署組織法第二條條文修正草案」案等8案。\n五、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例草案」案等8案。\n六、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「國家中醫研究院設置條例草案」案等14案。\n【詳見議事日程】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:03:40+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:06:30+08:00","duration":170,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[36,26],"id":"聯席會議-11-4-36,26-2"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.90346875,"end":8.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.805968750000002,"end":8.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.87346875,"end":59.61659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.156593750000006,"end":62.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.73846875,"end":68.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.45909375000001,"end":80.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.77784375,"end":146.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.02909375000002,"end":162.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.80721875,"end":167.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.57409375,"end":169.96221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.237,"end":27.59,"text":"謝謝主席主席還有各位同仁還有衛福部的長官謝謝主席針對衛福部組織法等六個主改的法案其中特別在國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例以及衛福部組織法而家屬的部分希望能夠"},{"start":28.47,"end":54.68,"text":"提出兩個我認為在醫療權益跟兒少福利的重要議題所以利用這個時間跟他做個提案說明第一就是醫療科技評估應該要明確的納入新醫療技術第二呢兒家屬的跨部會的協調權責應該要正式的入法有關於這個醫療科技評估納入新醫療技術的部分呢在行政院版國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例草案裡面"},{"start":55.881,"end":79.835,"text":"包括說醫療科技僅列出的這個藥品醫材 手術等處置的這個範疇實務上許多新的醫療技術可能並沒有完全的在包括在裡面以這個癌症有關於所謂進階治療為例或者是BNCT就是膨脹值的補貨治療為例他們其實是結合了手術"},{"start":80.856,"end":105.927,"text":"也結合了放射源跟藥物的特性導致呢未來在主審的時候可能會造成一些困難所以我建議應該設置條例裡面第三條立法說明明確納入新醫療技術避免審查範圍受限而目前的醫事師委託醫策會審查的新醫療技術人體試驗裡面未來也應該討論是否整合到整個評估中心確保"},{"start":107.187,"end":134.545,"text":"業務的一致性否則的話不同的部會呢他會分別根據自己的權責做處理事實上很多的新醫療科技他是會橫跨不同的這些面向那第二個是有關兒家屬跨部會協調權責入法的部分新成立兒少及家庭支持屬將整合保護師社工師及社家屬的相關業務但過去兒童事務分散在各組裡面讓你推動跨部會的溝通"},{"start":135.265,"end":162.29,"text":"是一個現實的困境若無明確的法源兒家屬將難以主導跨部會政策支援的整合所以應要參考內政部新住民業務範圍將衛福部組織法第五條修正草案中明文的增加兒家屬具備兒少事項的協調權責以上兩點關乎台灣醫療的前瞻性跟孩子成長的安全網建請衛福部跟各位同仁"},{"start":165.598,"end":166.44,"text":"再度謝謝主席 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167134","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167134","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8512d69ea5b1fa126bbc02888e1e08ec37174637afa3742303e82244cc87e3a1d295ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:13:35 - 09:29:04","影片長度":"00:15:29","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:13:35+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:29:04+08:00","duration":929,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.654718750000001,"end":6.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.629093750000001,"end":7.793468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.93596875,"end":14.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.72909375,"end":15.724718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.825968750000001,"end":23.200343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.672843750000002,"end":24.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.41534375,"end":31.688468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.38034375,"end":38.033468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.59034375,"end":44.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.74971875,"end":60.35909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.494093750000005,"end":141.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.59846875000001,"end":121.76721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.70909375000002,"end":144.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.29534375,"end":168.46034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.38846875000002,"end":169.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.29971875,"end":174.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.09221875,"end":176.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.37034375000002,"end":179.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.17159375,"end":181.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.84221875,"end":186.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.12909375,"end":182.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.19596875000002,"end":187.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.95534375000003,"end":188.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.38971875000001,"end":191.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.37659375,"end":192.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.37221875,"end":207.32346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.40596875,"end":192.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.34034375000002,"end":216.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.92971875,"end":225.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.14409375000002,"end":221.93721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.39659375000002,"end":227.11784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.70846875,"end":238.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.52971875000003,"end":250.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.94971875000002,"end":252.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.48096875000002,"end":259.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.84284375000004,"end":266.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.71096875,"end":284.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.54096875,"end":274.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.18909375000004,"end":312.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.30284375,"end":286.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.03909375,"end":301.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.57284375,"end":314.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.05784375,"end":329.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.71784375000004,"end":360.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.41784375000003,"end":360.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.61596875000004,"end":386.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.31284375,"end":388.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.39221875000004,"end":390.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.79721875,"end":390.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.04159375,"end":398.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.45409375,"end":402.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.07784375,"end":404.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.17034375000003,"end":415.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.81409375000004,"end":416.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.89409375,"end":420.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.47159375,"end":425.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.21346875,"end":430.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.34409375,"end":427.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.93034375,"end":430.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.74846875000003,"end":435.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.84471875,"end":440.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.57846875,"end":464.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.46909375,"end":470.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.52721875000003,"end":486.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.15346875000006,"end":489.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.47784375000003,"end":497.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.29534375000003,"end":495.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.07159375000003,"end":497.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.62409375000004,"end":500.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.27784375000005,"end":503.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.18471875000006,"end":506.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.87159375000005,"end":509.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.89221875000004,"end":511.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.0522187500001,"end":524.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.7934687500001,"end":520.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.84409375,"end":520.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.08409375,"end":558.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.43346875,"end":560.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.26409375,"end":564.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.78284375,"end":561.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.1497187500001,"end":566.0690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.46159375,"end":567.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.4822187500001,"end":574.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.01284375,"end":576.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.1140937499999,"end":578.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.83096875,"end":583.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.7665937500001,"end":586.9265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.4497187500001,"end":600.9328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.86971875,"end":618.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.27409375,"end":604.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.5759687500001,"end":619.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.8328437499999,"end":623.1909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.4822187500001,"end":625.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.2622187500001,"end":630.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.0634687500001,"end":629.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.7722187500001,"end":630.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.6328437500001,"end":637.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.7547187499999,"end":634.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.83846875,"end":641.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.70721875,"end":642.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.94721875,"end":646.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.0734687500001,"end":647.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.6259687500001,"end":651.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.27534375,"end":652.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.8447187500001,"end":653.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.02596875,"end":653.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.4309687500001,"end":655.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.84409375,"end":657.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.7509687500001,"end":660.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.38346875,"end":664.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.28159375,"end":685.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.07659375,"end":681.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.8147187500001,"end":695.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.68221875,"end":693.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.4834687500002,"end":698.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.4028437500001,"end":713.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.65784375,"end":715.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.51409375,"end":716.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.22284375,"end":720.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.6147187500001,"end":722.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.65659375,"end":722.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.4665937500001,"end":727.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.0522187500001,"end":731.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":730.54971875,"end":739.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.27409375,"end":741.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.69159375,"end":741.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":741.82221875,"end":744.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.46721875,"end":747.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.84659375,"end":748.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.8972187500001,"end":749.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.1797187500001,"end":749.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.97284375,"end":761.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.0234687500001,"end":750.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.38909375,"end":771.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":771.7078437499999,"end":779.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":780.43221875,"end":781.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":781.32659375,"end":783.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":783.16596875,"end":796.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.1953437500001,"end":784.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":795.8559687500001,"end":801.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":802.53846875,"end":819.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":817.5403437500001,"end":828.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":821.0165937500001,"end":821.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":825.72471875,"end":826.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.04096875,"end":827.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":828.2053437500001,"end":841.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":836.6428437500001,"end":837.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":841.3172187500002,"end":867.8953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.81846875,"end":847.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":862.84971875,"end":863.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":865.80284375,"end":877.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":877.04159375,"end":892.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.71846875,"end":895.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":895.33409375,"end":924.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":899.31659375,"end":903.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":903.2990937500001,"end":903.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":918.4865937500001,"end":920.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":924.35909375,"end":925.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.74284375,"end":928.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":928.51034375,"end":929.67471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.75,"end":31.526,"text":"谢谢赵伟我们是不是请部长好 有请郑部长伟恩好部长好我想就1月12号你所公布的有关于教师解评办法的一个修正其实老实说就是有关于校师会议的一个检讨那你对于这样公布之后你知道会造成非常大的反弹吗还是你认为一公布完之后所有的校师会议就可以被解决了"},{"start":32.878,"end":59.992,"text":"當然這樣的一個修訂事實上要全部解決我們第一現場的這些老師們所有的這些壓力的數我想是沒有辦法的但是我也要跟委員報告這一年多來我北中南分區跟老師們座談也跟家長協會教師協會家長團體跟民間關心台灣教育的許多團體做了許多的座談包含"},{"start":60.552,"end":81.07,"text":"好没关系所以你部长做了非常多了好很好11月24号在我们公听会完毕之后呢大概就只有一次的邀请所有的各代表过来所以说呢来陈述意见但是呢说实在的教育部只是提出了一个修法的方向但是呢没有一些明确的文字表达所以我们就说你是在表达你的立场"},{"start":81.71,"end":110.283,"text":"我也同样跟部长一样而且我本身就是培育师资的一个老师所以不管是我的第一线的学生还有包括在各区里面听到也有很多老师跟家长大家都希望说能够校园里面能够亲师关系都是和谐跟部长的期望是一样的但是我们就来检视你1月12号所公布的这部分到底有没有办法让我们整个校园大家已经过去来说已经是纷扰不休有没有办法得到停止我们先来看一下好了"},{"start":110.743,"end":127.897,"text":"我们为了要让这个校事会议不要每一件事情都进到我们所谓的全球独步的一个校事会议你们这一次呢先成立了一个叫受理审议小组没错吧受理审议小组里面呢就是在原来的校事会议当中少了行政人员这也没错吧"},{"start":128.297,"end":141.622,"text":"消息会是五个人 受理小组是四个人所以你是教师 家长 然后再加一个专家然后呢有校长 那校长本身是没有投票权那我想请问部长 那这个专家是谁来聘请"},{"start":142.939,"end":167.766,"text":"專家還是由學校裡面有校長來聘請然後校長沒有投票權來校長可以來決定校長沒有投票權因為你說要維持中立但是校長回到校事會議之後呢校長又有投票權所以我只請問這個受理也就是我們校事會議的會前會跟所謂的這個真正的校事會議有沒有跌船駕屋的這樣子的一個功能上面的一個漢格"},{"start":170.373,"end":170.753,"text":"跟委員報告我們這裡邊怎麼樣去"},{"start":180.419,"end":206.983,"text":"兒少權益能夠確保不要跟我講這個你只告訴我有沒有重疊嗎有沒有跌床加烏嗎是沒有跌床加烏的怎麼會沒有呢你這個前面的會前會就是你的小組裡面我們就是家長一樣學校代表一樣專家是由校長聘請只是校長在我們的審議小組的時候不能發表回到的這個部分校士會議當中的話校長有投票權多增加一個行政人員哪一個不是跌床加烏你告訴我"},{"start":207.503,"end":224.088,"text":"我想我們相信老師教師代表教師的權益的維護跟家長代表這裡邊對學生小孩子的兒童我們都同意啊問題是你把這個學校有了一個校式會議後你讓整個學校變成好像一個私設刑場一樣你讓它變一個法院開在學校裡面啊跟委員報告這一個"},{"start":227.999,"end":251.571,"text":"階段我們不希望因為校長還是要護學校辦學的一個責任所以不希望他求員兼裁判我們希望這一個來自專業那我問你校士會議學校長有沒有表決權如果不要求員兼裁判校士會議裡面校長有沒有否決權校長還沒有投票權也可以那這叫什麼求員兼裁判他在校士會議裡面可以求員兼裁判我們就是希望分流因為"},{"start":252.671,"end":271.574,"text":"在当时所有的这一年来至少我接到的信息大小事本来校士会是用的所以你认为受了你觉得前面受一个会前会的受理选一小组就可以解决这个问题吗你觉得就可以解决这个问题吗至少他达到我们老师端的一个诉求希望他不要大小事"},{"start":272.074,"end":286.557,"text":"都進入到校事會議我們第一個先分流我想跟委員報告我們現在社會存在一個家長對老師老師對家長我們希望有更多的一些信任部長你當過老師我也當過老師我們都知道你剛講那個目標原則都沒有問題只是你制度的設計有沒有真正維護到讓老師的熱情不被剝奪我覺得是這樣子我想我們的想法跟委員"},{"start":300.979,"end":328.204,"text":"一樣 我想只是質疑你你設立的這個所謂邵里審議小組這是邵氏會的會前會有沒有真正讓我們成都的這個爛宿有沒有把制度的設計問題我們先來看嘛我想會比以前更好我不相信好 如果說是我相信的話就不會有馬上就有教師團體在1月25號要上街頭來如果你真的這個設計能夠符合他們的一個需求誠如你說的有跟這些教師團體好好的溝通不會造成這樣的一個狀況好"},{"start":329.844,"end":355.518,"text":"部长我们先来看看整个的部分里面嘛你的制度里面当然特别是在你们这个在这个校师会议里面真正进入里面有个调查小组我想很多的教师团体希望在这个校长小组当中除了三位外聘专家当中能够诚如你所说的更了解学校更了解学生的这个所谓的家长跟教师代表能够进入但是呢在调查小组里面被你们否决了没错吧"},{"start":356.098,"end":375.793,"text":"你們希望能夠只有法律的專家等等之類不必然是法律專家法律專家可以但是有很多的學校的老師跟家長更是了解學校的狀況可是就被你們用疑惑如果加入了學校的一些代表的話就會變成所謂的官官相護現在你們就是充斥著只要是學校老師出來發聲你們就認為他們在官官相護這是不早你所看到的嗎"},{"start":383.659,"end":403.385,"text":"調查小組裡面多增加的兩個難道不好嗎教師代表也可以是學校的一個老師的代表調查小組沒有教師代表 家長代表我們就希望因為他了解學校所以從學校裡面長出來的我說的是調查小組裡面只有三位法律專家代表就是分我之前這一個的一個小組"},{"start":404.245,"end":427.417,"text":"部長我也知道分流的狀況但是呢當你調查小組把調查的結果放到校務會議校事會的時候呢其實一切就已經決定了就已經決定了常常就已經決定了就好像是檢調已經起訴了好不好陳主委員所提的我對基層教育我是熟悉的我完全同意啊可是我就是質疑這次的制度設計是有問題的"},{"start":431.039,"end":443.23,"text":"學校的爭議教師代表不應該由其他學校來當代表家長代表不應該由其他學校來當代表我們兩個現在沒有對焦部長我們現在沒有對焦我現在跟你說這個你跟我說別的東西這不是我現在只能跟你提倡我們這個所謂的裡面的調查小組當中我們只希望能夠多有一個對於學校裡面完全理解的因為我們很清楚"},{"start":454.761,"end":464.488,"text":"在校士會議當中整個之前的調查報告就已經決定了80%這才是為什麼那麼多教師團體希望在你們所謂的專家學者之外能夠加入我只告訴你部長"},{"start":471.212,"end":496.059,"text":"你們當然可以去執行但是呢有高度的重疊這個制度設計為了要避免校試會議不要被你們說有爛數你們反而在校試會裡面又前面又多出了一個審查小組但是裡面的名單是高度重疊的就事情的判斷來做分流那平常你的教評會什麼平常的考核會議之前就可以來判斷了難道沒有嗎在你我的年代當中就教評會就來判斷了"},{"start":497.719,"end":523.32,"text":"理解也同意委員我們以前時代就有嗎有有你那時候的老師的尊嚴跟現在他在哪裡現在正解釋118年當時為什麼既然學校有校教評會為什麼還訂出了一個所謂的校士會議對這個解聘不棄聘當時的體系當然有一定的時空環境嘛可是當時因為這個校士會議裡邊希望有一個更專業更客觀來"},{"start":524.141,"end":544.012,"text":"我只告诉你部长你也很清楚的知道你现在讲了这么多的理由我们现在回归到最有温度的教学的现场你这套的设计有让我们现在的现职的老师因为你这个设计里面让他们觉得倍感尊严让他们觉得他们教育的热忱还是继续维持吗你就说着这个部分就可以了吗在我们的年代当中"},{"start":544.352,"end":558.584,"text":"我們當老師是什麼樣的一個尊榮我們現在的當老師是什麼樣的一個卑微你可以比較一下嘛我從頭到尾我沒有否定你的初心我只告訴你現在的制度完全沒有辦法讓我們這個第一線老師受到任何的一個尊重嘛"},{"start":560.325,"end":574.225,"text":"没有嘛补偿机制你们什么时候演绎出来你先让我先问到这个部分我可以让你回忆我们老师如果说到一个冤案的话你的补偿机制演绎到什么时候出来你可不可以告诉我们一个具体的时程"},{"start":575.066,"end":591.401,"text":"我們先把這個全部問題問完你同意回應這也要請委員多以支持確實我們現在的一個法令相關是有難度的但是我跟委員報告自始至終我同意如果一個老師受到冤屈"},{"start":592.722,"end":619.281,"text":"民意怎么回复包含他的许多的权益怎么样来回复我想这一直自始至终好嘛那你什么时候要把我们的补偿机制演绎出来什么时候具体实际部长我从头到后没有否定你的初心我只告诉你你所设定的制度当中让我们现在教育的老师第一线的老师越来越没有热情他们真的觉得回到学校去教书之后动不动就很害怕学校越来越没有热情不是我引起的"},{"start":619.961,"end":642.637,"text":"但是我願意來協助解決問題當然 那你 好了 沒有問題補償機制什麼時候出來什麼時候研議出來 告訴我們一個具體的時程這是我們不斷在追問的我的立場一直是主張應該給予回復的但是我們現在確實有許多的法令必須要克服所以這個部分我們會跨部會包括跨院上的人好 那什麼時候 到底什麼時候出來"},{"start":644.008,"end":664.192,"text":"你要跨到哪里去啊你这个老师的这个补偿好 没问题所以什么时候给我们一个明确的一个时程出来好 我们也跟人事总处好嘛 那什么时候嘛可能什么时候半年 三个月我们在努力如果可以那么快我不会再这一次我这一次就会以我的个性这一次就一次到位了"},{"start":664.312,"end":683.969,"text":"您以你的個性我相信你會為老師的權益能夠做我只告訴你從頭到尾這是我所聽到所有的這個部分校園裡面的對立沒有因為你這個制度的設計變得因此更加友善老師的熱忱沒有因為這個制度增加一個會前會的審議小組因為這樣就這樣我們的時間成本也沒有因為這樣子而受到這樣的影響老師他們對目前先把這個不具名這個避免濫訴"},{"start":691.896,"end":714.406,"text":"這個至少減了一半第一線的老師已經至少他們覺得這是一個好的開始匿名的部分裡面萬一真的是有一個真的是是匿名你們不予受理但是真的有一些的方式裡面他真的涉及到不當的體罰那你要怎麼處理只要是匿名你都不處理嗎那如果有這些事情發生你怎麼辦他回歸到什麼機制"},{"start":715.606,"end":744.501,"text":"如果真有這件事情的話我想有一些我們還是有一些流程這一個我們會所以你們回到考核機制嘛對不對如果說真的有的我們是有一個機制而且會給地方教育局處這個都跟地方教育局處討論過的所以我們在未來的這個沒有我只問說你如果說匿名審查裡面都把它刪除但是如果真的是匿名審查但是真的是有涉及到不當的一個管教這個部分怎麼處理我們還是有一個程序上什麼程序原來的原來體制上面的考核機制對不對"},{"start":745.541,"end":770.707,"text":"那是不是又回到原來的考核機制那是不一樣的什麼不一樣我們一定要看他在這個事實上那如果他有延期從主管單位裡邊我們透過那個檢核的幾個指標那就是原來的機制嘛對不對你最匿名的部分你就回到原來的機制嘛居民的話你就回到這個校式會議之前的會前會然後到校式會議然後再要檢查檔"},{"start":773.811,"end":778.118,"text":"你覺得真的會對我們的這個所謂的師生權益保障會更有效嗎你真的這麼覺得會比較好嗎"},{"start":781.45,"end":801.701,"text":"我相信他一定会更好你相信会更好好我告诉你我那时候就说1月12号你们这样子提出这个部分里面如果没有处理好一定会让所谓的教育现场老师更是觉得心寒果然这个部分里面来说的话教师团体基本上他的最希望是整个根本废掉"},{"start":802.951,"end":827.45,"text":"这是我们终极目标回到刚才委员讲的由校教评会来处理但是我们必须要讲台湾这些年来因为儿少权益包括少子化很多的不必然是少子化每一个家长你这样说起来好像教师的团体里面不顾及你的儿童不顾及儿少法不顾及家长群你这样对教师团体不公平校长我当然"},{"start":828.311,"end":857.365,"text":"不是委员不能用这样做结论但是彼此之间如何增加彼此的信任更多的一个信任因为我一直相信亲师合作才能够把下一代教得更好我当然相信部长这就是我们一贯身为教育工作者一贯的一个方向这个我们都不用再互相的质疑只是我们今天所讨论就整个制度的设计上面真的是让我们第一线的老师到目前为止对于这样一个设计他们真的觉得"},{"start":857.785,"end":876.876,"text":"已經有點心寒這也是一個你不能忽略到的一個事實沒有人因為說這樣的部分裡面就完全忽略了學生忽略了家長的感受沒有完全沒有這樣一個修正我沒有辦法滿足所有的老師也沒有辦法解決所有老師的一些問題但是他往好的方向在走"},{"start":877.096,"end":892.521,"text":"我们就来看看有没有办法好一下所以说部长万一这个过程当中没有因此让整个老师的这个热情回复没有办法让校园的堆砌继续的这样子的有所减少你是不是可以承诺可以做另外一番的一个修正万一你执行起来"},{"start":892.841,"end":919.807,"text":"这个是我们大概半年后我们会滚动半年后好半年后我们都还在对不对我们就来看现在是一月对不对七八月我们下个会期的时候我们就来看看到底还在不在好不好这才是一个很具体还有包括老师我刚刚所提到的他的补偿的部分我希望在半年后当中我们也可以看到我们今天站在这个地方都要讲出明确的时程跟明确的一个目标这才是我们身为教育者里面应该对这些老师对这些学生应该有的责任跟角色"},{"start":920.387,"end":929.406,"text":"也是我努力的目标我们半年后再来看看检视这样的一个成果好 谢谢谢谢委员 谢谢谢谢柯知恩委员那郑部长请回座"}]}},{"id":"167171","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167171","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851250c6c5310fa3513e1f8a6d37bdd8b89128c6ef5ed786e9b11b1cec9fb31ec975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"12:16:54 - 12:31:01","影片長度":"00:14:07","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:16:54+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:31:01+08:00","duration":847,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.37221875,"end":4.840343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.2115937500000005,"end":6.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.78034375,"end":14.442218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.37034375,"end":15.876593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.26471875,"end":52.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.30221875,"end":19.656593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.84971875,"end":72.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.03659375000001,"end":72.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.12096875,"end":72.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.20534375,"end":120.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.86784375,"end":99.86346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.97409375000001,"end":137.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.65534375000001,"end":164.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.24159375000002,"end":172.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.96596875,"end":194.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.27909375000002,"end":194.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.08909375000002,"end":215.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.74409375000002,"end":273.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.76096875000002,"end":217.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.44221875,"end":258.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.20346875,"end":334.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.99846875000003,"end":289.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.03096875,"end":298.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.96596875,"end":339.35346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.02034375,"end":338.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.86409375,"end":339.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.35346875000005,"end":342.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.17159375,"end":357.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.23909375,"end":342.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.42221875,"end":363.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.97846875000005,"end":363.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.80534375,"end":363.82221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.19346875,"end":366.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.59846875000005,"end":365.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.72909375,"end":366.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.03284375000004,"end":366.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.10034375000004,"end":366.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.68659375000004,"end":372.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.85034375000004,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.17909375000005,"end":380.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.32596875,"end":394.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.72471875,"end":394.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.55159375000005,"end":466.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.96221875000003,"end":468.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.00846875,"end":468.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.97034375000004,"end":469.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.03784375000004,"end":471.23159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.65346875000006,"end":494.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.91159375,"end":500.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.23159375000006,"end":498.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.15534375000004,"end":524.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.50596875,"end":529.6865937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.77596875,"end":524.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.82659375,"end":524.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.8603437500001,"end":524.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.85534375,"end":537.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":537.9722187500001,"end":543.1359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.0903437500001,"end":538.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.1528437500001,"end":563.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.45346875,"end":572.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.4778437500001,"end":570.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.19909375,"end":572.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.5828437499999,"end":574.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.5234687500001,"end":575.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.0422187500001,"end":600.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.88221875,"end":618.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.1184687500001,"end":601.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.2365937500001,"end":601.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.58409375,"end":627.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.00034375,"end":630.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.58221875,"end":632.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.5734687500001,"end":634.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.34971875,"end":633.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.78409375,"end":640.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.0322187500001,"end":656.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.7240937500001,"end":641.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.3290937500001,"end":672.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":672.9722187500001,"end":673.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.03971875,"end":673.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.61346875,"end":673.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":673.6303437500001,"end":674.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.2547187499999,"end":674.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.4740937500001,"end":674.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":674.4909687500001,"end":686.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.7097187500001,"end":679.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":686.94471875,"end":701.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.38659375,"end":694.8759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":701.82846875,"end":703.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":703.3640937499999,"end":706.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.05971875,"end":730.4990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":730.51596875,"end":730.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":730.71846875,"end":741.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":742.53096875,"end":791.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":791.56971875,"end":804.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":804.20909375,"end":810.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":811.14471875,"end":811.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":811.97159375,"end":812.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":812.81534375,"end":826.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.78409375,"end":824.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":825.04971875,"end":833.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":833.9765937500001,"end":834.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.1284687500001,"end":834.1453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.5334687500001,"end":834.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":834.5503437500001,"end":842.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":836.44034375,"end":836.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":842.5828437500002,"end":844.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":844.0847187500001,"end":844.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":845.6709687500002,"end":846.5147187500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.55,"end":5.154,"text":"主席麻煩我們的次長喂好"},{"start":11.825,"end":33.12,"text":"上午安好那首先我很支持這次的修法的方向因為大家都不想看到缺藥物發生之後才來救火可是這也是台灣韌性台灣藥品韌性的一個很重要環節所以我今天第一件事情就是問你的申報制度到底要怎麼做才會有用為什麼"},{"start":34.321,"end":52.288,"text":"定期申報到底要怎麼操作如果頻率定的太密中小型的藥商行政負擔會加重更重要的是申報要報什麼才能夠看得到風險先是立法通過後授權主管機關訂定辦法所以想問的是說"},{"start":53.268,"end":72.075,"text":"後續配套辦法當中是否會有明確評估申報的頻率跟藥品風險的等級的關聯性還有以及如何平衡廠商的儲存的一個成本會不會有獎勵廠商拉高庫存的措施所以部長你們目前的初步規劃是什麼"},{"start":72.335,"end":93.43,"text":"好 謝謝委員 真的這個部分我們事實上也希望能夠補強相關的法源然後再來我們在另外那個藥品任性的案子裡面希望能夠支持廠商有一些必要的不論是它的相關的成本或者是相關的這些投資那我們在這個部分裡面我們其實就像剛剛委員提到的查查就是說申報的頻率我們會針對它有一些不同的風險"},{"start":94.17,"end":120.397,"text":"因為有些藥品它可能就只有單一兩家藥廠它一旦任何一家藥廠出問題我們大概就會供應上有問題那有些它可能比較多家藥廠或者是它在市面上它的類似用藥或同成分用藥比較多那這個部分我們在頻率上可能就可以稍微比較不那麼嚴格那我們在這邊目前所設置的目前所有目前大概是以每一劑來做申報但是有一些高風險的我們會有一些比較明確的在持續跟這些廠商做一些監督跟管理"},{"start":120.777,"end":137.512,"text":"所以我覺得衛福要有清楚規劃因為有時候我剛才也提過如果中小型的藥商他行政負擔會加重如果你每一季有去考慮到這些嗎因為把這套制度做成早知道早介入早調度的工具的話而不是事後追查的一個工具我們希望能夠提早預計"},{"start":138.052,"end":154.419,"text":"而且也跟委員報告就是說過去也因為其實我們也很感謝廠商跟機構還有相關學協會都一起要來維持我們的供應韌性所以事實上有一些藥品我們也知道有一些藥廠他會提早告訴我們提早告訴我們之後我們會找學協會來了解尤其在找健保署"},{"start":154.639,"end":177.262,"text":"就是會知道說目前藥品的使用量使用狀況那學協會也會提供一些資訊告訴我們說他們事實上已經有哪些類同樣的成分的藥品他們是可以替換來使用的那這樣這個就比較簡單那如果是單一藥廠或者是特定藥廠的一些藥品這個部分頻率可能就會加的比較頻繁一點再來重大事件的時候政府要有調度權我了解我也支持"},{"start":177.882,"end":194.023,"text":"可是我的重點很簡單授權可以可是規則一樣要講清楚第一你們要怎麼界定只有在極端情境才啟動限制供應所以這樣可不可以把原則講清楚避免外界現在質疑把緊急權利變成常態工具"},{"start":195.14,"end":211.999,"text":"其實因為事實上在平常的狀況各藥廠之間的供應事實上就是大家有一個調度的機制那事實上我們這個主要是因應一個事情是在重大或緊急重大影響公共事件公共事件第一個部分是在WHO它有對於國際關注突發公共事件它有一些定義"},{"start":212.6,"end":234.472,"text":"那第一個當然我們會針對這個定義來做來做相關的那就是我第二個要問的立法說明就是希望廠商為公益挺身那我就要問你們要怎麼設計配套讓廠商配合調度的時候不會被合約罰款追著跑因為廠商跟醫院大半都有供貨的一個合約醫院又是強勢的買方如果政府在缺藥時要求藥商"},{"start":236.733,"end":263.975,"text":"把原本要供应给某些单位的药改播到其他地方那厂商可能就是面临到违约那罚款的一些风险在这些风险如果全部都丢给厂商的话最后就是厂商干脆我们注销市占不高的药证不做了那结果更缺药所以市长是不是可以讲清楚你们面对这个可执行可负担可预期你们的制度是不是对"},{"start":264.615,"end":288.522,"text":"廠商來講事實上是可執行可負擔可預期而且至少要讓業者知道說配合政府不會換來被罰被黑名單被迫退出報告委員其實就是因為我們過去在緊急狀況或者是特殊專案進口的時候那個調度都是我們自己跟敢用拜託的廠商他手頭上沒有相關法源可以確保他們在合約的部分可以因為政府的調度而得到相關的保障"},{"start":289.182,"end":305.071,"text":"所以其實過去也跟委員很誠實的講2024年的時候生理的時間水我們在調度過程都是我們都感謝各個廠商是配合我們然後我們還行文給各醫療機構說因為這個原因所以他們配合我們調度所以那個合約的部分要請各位各個醫療院所用我們這個所發的這個函"},{"start":306.872,"end":333.466,"text":"能夠讓藥廠不要因為過去的合約受到限制跟影響事實上過去是用這個方式處理所以這次的修法事實上是去補強這個東西就是說當這些緊急或重大影響公共衛生事件的時候因為這個事件發生了所以這一些部分由我們食藥署來做相關的調度那這個調度的過程中因為廠商配合我們這個法源的調度所以各醫療機構原先跟他們的這個相關的合約就能夠有我們這邊的授權來做處理"},{"start":334.887,"end":363.681,"text":"因為我覺得真的他們願意配合政府的就不應該是讓他們承擔風險所以過去就是因為沒有這個法源這次我們把法源補上謝謝委員所以史博長去年18月的時候說今年1月開始要鼓勵國產學民要使用量達到70%而且從化療的學民要擴大到所有癌症學民要請問這樣是不是可以能夠我們的敦促健保署趕快公告上路預計大概什麼時候上路這已經公告了"},{"start":364.281,"end":365.204,"text":"已經公告商路了"},{"start":369.048,"end":393.656,"text":"來 可不可以說明一下因為大家都很擔心一直怎麼都還沒有結果好 那報告主席跟各位委員那我們那個生物相似性藥跟化療學名藥的部分在去年呢下半年我們在8月的時候也已經有公告9月開始實施的這個化療學名藥 癌藥的化學治療的學名藥的部分那今年會再擴大把全部癌藥的學名藥一起規劃進來"},{"start":394.796,"end":419.715,"text":"是 好 謝謝再來我要問的是未成年用藥的問題那首先上週我們莊瑞雄委員詢問部長說瘦瘦真的亂象部長說要加強管理那部長也說瘦瘦真的取得一定要有醫師的處方簽我想常年我們調查也顯示說容貌跟身材焦慮常常是青少年前三名的一個煩惱在"},{"start":420.936,"end":448.042,"text":"所以我現在就收到國高中生來跟我分享說有同學沒有透過正確的醫師評估跟處方簽的管道就跟著家人一起在使用瘦瘦針甚至自己存錢在網路上去購買來入不明的一個針劑所以這樣 我的問題很直接就是說現在瘦瘦針這麼多款而且哪些是可以讓未成年使用又哪些會有限制對未成年的影響評估是什麼"},{"start":449.122,"end":470.973,"text":"那再來衛福部要不要有一個明確的說法公告讓家長跟青少年不是上網Google問或問ChatGPT然後衛福部是不是可以直接宣導說怎麼去理解搜索人到底對未成年的影響是什麼還有使用限制以及什麼是正確的我們的減重觀念我想我們直接先講就是說這是一個藥品"},{"start":471.893,"end":499.1,"text":"藥品就是要經過專科醫師依照病人的需求是不是符合適應症評估之後開藥然後這個開藥之後還要由藥師這邊來協助給予用藥指導這個是標準用藥程序所以像現在提到的大家自己上網路去買或者是團購他這就是違法行為而且這個過程中很有可能用到的是偽藥或者是假藥可是抓得到嗎所以我認為這件事情真的要慎重處理因為現在已經"},{"start":499.7,"end":523.777,"text":"也要再补充一个资讯就是说其实为什么在我们对于儿童或青少年的这个用药要更加的谨慎那我们也相信说这个过程中其实不论是内分泌科或者是这个我们讲儿科医师在给药的部分我们会希望他们能够他们这边其实会比较能够照专业处理那这个药品因为目前的研究发现停了药之后有些人他如果本身的习惯没有改变他会有反弹性的腹胖"},{"start":524.737,"end":549.946,"text":"所以这个部分也是为什么说其实它用药是一个协助目前我们讲的病态性肥胖的病人会有帮助但是其他的民众或者是甚至没有到病态性肥胖的病人最重要的事情还是他的饮食建议跟相关的行为改变市长我很关心的是青少年那现在青少年已经在使用我刚刚讲说他们对于容貌跟身材就实际上是焦虑的而且是他们的前三名所以是不是请卫福部两周内把"},{"start":550.586,"end":572.578,"text":"公告或新聞稿處理好把未成年使用授受針的規範跟風險講清楚讓家長跟青少年看得懂查得到我覺得這一點蠻重要因為已經事實上不是少數的人在使用委員這個部分是不是我們跟包含兒科醫學會還有我們講的內分泌相關的學協會那一起來處理這個有聲明好不好兩週內最後"},{"start":576.749,"end":597.919,"text":"社工是在幫政府把社會福利落地在第一線照顧弱勢處境的民眾政府既然靠社工落實社會福利然後政府就有責任把社工照顧好上週嘉義市花蓮縣社會工作人員職業工會已經發文反映說一個月的薪資延遲發放的問題"},{"start":601,"end":627.325,"text":"市長你們到底有沒有理解因為現在還有哪些縣市也同樣有狀況因為這邊在臉書催都一直不斷的有開始在談到這個課題那這些狀況裡面哪些是約定好一月就是會晚發的是哪些是根本就沒有按期發放是否你現在是否有所有縣市真的都確定去發薪水了嗎因為我從上週三接到社工來告訴我之後我就開始問你們"},{"start":628.154,"end":655.574,"text":"可是问了今天快一周了所以你可不可以先回答我也就是说这几个问题你是要请社工师的组织的单位来回答呢还是有资料给我这边先跟委员做报告我想我们还是要再一次强调就是说希望各县市政府社工是各县市政府最重要的人力资产请各县市政府这边要能够在相关程序上面来协助那我们现在到我们在1月16号的资料里面"},{"start":658.016,"end":671.733,"text":"當時還沒有完成發行的縣市是花蓮跟澎湖那他們給我們的資料是最晚今天會完成那其他的15個縣市是在5日之前有發行那另外的話就是說台東彰化連江嘉義跟雲林縣是16號之前發行"},{"start":673.755,"end":700.94,"text":"次長薪水延遲發放從勞基法精神來看就是一件很嚴重的事情從對一般家庭來講孩子的補習費房租費然後水電費這些每一筆都有一些期限沒有誰可以跟你講說我行政流程比較慢你先等等如果講還有16 19今天都已經我們的月中了所以從現在狀況下來看的話有些縣市的聘用社工每次到1月"},{"start":701.9,"end":730.258,"text":"因為聽他們講說今年不是單一不是第一次過往都是這樣都是用行政因素把顏值發放薪水變成一個好像可以被接受的事情更奇怪的是不是每個縣市都這樣如果說今天全台灣22個縣市都這樣不是 就是部分縣市所以明明三分之二的縣市都能夠準時發薪的話那代表這不是一定做不到而是沒有把它當一回事人家每一筆錢都是等著家庭的花用"},{"start":730.938,"end":745.946,"text":"有人可以延遲嗎因為如果今天房東可以讓我延遲說繳房租嗎不可能嘛所以我也知道你等一下可能會跟我講說這不是社工這是縣市聘用人員都會遇到的要去找全系部還有人事總處來處理可是事實上"},{"start":747.527,"end":767.601,"text":"身為你們身為一個全國社工的主管機關我要求你們不要把責任往外推而且是要先回答魏甫甫自己能做什麼的問題也就是你們到底可以做什麼我說今天已經不是常態他過往就是這樣每次碰到一月就有這種狀況所以也不要跟我講說你們已經發文要求這類的空話明年是不是又要再發聲因為現實"},{"start":768.962,"end":790.867,"text":"延遲的這個狀況還是持續今天我說今年不是第一年所以如果民間團體假設我們如果民間社福團體這樣做的話你們政府就馬上就來要求救責然後甚至有罰則那現在輪到你們自己系統裡面出現這樣子一月延遲發放薪水而且到月中才給的話你們要拿出什麼樣的更積極的作為可不可以"},{"start":791.947,"end":810.469,"text":"檢討你社福績效考核的項目把這個放進去把社工權益跟身心健康保障放進去更積極的要求各縣市還是你們準備用什麼方式來確保這件事情明年不會再發生我們就像剛剛委員提到的我們有我們把相關的社福考核這個部分列入其中一個評估好不好讓我們把它評估看看"},{"start":811.246,"end":833.867,"text":"不過我覺得真的我們每一個人都是領薪水過日子的人不要讓社工在赤字巴望著你們的一月薪水要下來然後呢還要自己墊腳房租做這些事情甚至搞不好去借款也是非常希望地方政府因為我們其實給的這些談判就是希望地方政府可以來落實就像您說的有的縣市做得到有的縣市做不到所以我覺得"},{"start":835.129,"end":843.785,"text":"請問服務就你們可以做到的部分兩週內研議好你們相關的一些措施然後提供給我們辦公室兩週好謝謝好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167168","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167168","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8511dff666429c4beece1f8a6d37bdd8b89128c6ef5ed786e9be845366a77bfd4645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"12:02:12 - 12:16:44","影片長度":"00:14:32","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:02:12+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:16:44+08:00","duration":872,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.4353437499999995,"end":7.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.995968750000001,"end":9.430343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.26909375,"end":15.640343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.640343750000003,"end":15.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.180343750000002,"end":25.140968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.17471875,"end":26.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.575343750000002,"end":27.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.992843750000002,"end":29.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.22034375,"end":44.024093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.42909375,"end":48.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.002218750000004,"end":54.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.212218750000005,"end":56.494718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.71409375,"end":90.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.62034375,"end":90.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.81846875000001,"end":93.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.66221875000001,"end":93.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.99096875000001,"end":94.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.39596875000001,"end":103.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.03596875000001,"end":123.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.51784375000001,"end":131.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.69409375,"end":136.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.88784375,"end":133.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.80284375000002,"end":143.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.29096875000002,"end":155.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.63534375,"end":157.59284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.81221875,"end":160.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.27159375000002,"end":165.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.57471875000002,"end":190.06034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.40659375,"end":192.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.23721875,"end":219.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.54096875000002,"end":227.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.97846875000002,"end":228.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.97409375,"end":229.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.02471875,"end":245.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.92221875,"end":237.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.69284375,"end":249.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.97096875000003,"end":254.06721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.99971875000003,"end":254.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.28659375,"end":259.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.39971875000003,"end":261.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.98159375,"end":265.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.77846875,"end":266.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.29721875,"end":268.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.49534375,"end":272.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.44409375000004,"end":278.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.82284375,"end":281.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.77596875,"end":300.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.33409375,"end":316.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.54284375000003,"end":316.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.42034375000003,"end":316.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.47096875,"end":319.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.03596875,"end":319.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.05284375,"end":330.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.56596875,"end":336.36659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.97409375,"end":336.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.99096875000004,"end":345.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.66471875,"end":349.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.66409375,"end":358.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.58659375,"end":365.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.67846875000004,"end":365.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.99909375000004,"end":369.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.91409375,"end":372.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.58034375,"end":378.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.14471875000004,"end":380.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.37659375000004,"end":383.85284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.13971875000004,"end":390.82221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.82221875000005,"end":413.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.59096875,"end":421.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.87221875,"end":424.47096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.47096875000005,"end":424.50471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.99409375000005,"end":437.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.29596875000004,"end":452.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.02346875,"end":456.49971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.83721875000003,"end":458.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.21659375,"end":467.08034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.40096875,"end":489.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.27096875,"end":492.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.32534375000006,"end":500.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.35784375000003,"end":517.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.9753437500001,"end":518.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.65034375,"end":523.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.8647187500001,"end":538.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.6853437500001,"end":544.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.3472187500001,"end":541.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.48596875,"end":545.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.78534375,"end":565.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.7865937500001,"end":576.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.4640937500001,"end":576.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.40909375,"end":578.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.7084687500001,"end":585.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.3359687500001,"end":610.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.74159375,"end":623.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.3215937500001,"end":638.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.3447187500001,"end":639.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.57221875,"end":642.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.2765937500001,"end":654.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.62909375,"end":656.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.9578437499999,"end":658.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":659.37096875,"end":660.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.35784375,"end":665.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.59346875,"end":671.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.8247187500001,"end":675.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.9422187499999,"end":683.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.56971875,"end":686.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.1640937500001,"end":703.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.4778437500001,"end":705.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.0303437500002,"end":710.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.04659375,"end":713.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.61971875,"end":721.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.70284375,"end":728.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.11534375,"end":731.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.67221875,"end":729.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":731.56221875,"end":732.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.20346875,"end":735.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.6672187500001,"end":740.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.66221875,"end":740.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.3159687500001,"end":744.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.18034375,"end":746.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.12096875,"end":751.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.37346875,"end":757.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.69721875,"end":769.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":764.13096875,"end":764.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":769.63221875,"end":785.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.7690937500001,"end":792.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.68346875,"end":803.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":803.09534375,"end":808.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.11221875,"end":803.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":806.47034375,"end":809.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":809.71034375,"end":814.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.6003437500001,"end":812.0053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":815.3972187500001,"end":817.7934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":817.3715937500001,"end":824.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":824.08784375,"end":830.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":830.21346875,"end":831.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.8672187500001,"end":839.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":831.95159375,"end":832.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":839.83221875,"end":839.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":840.0009687500001,"end":841.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":841.4184687500001,"end":853.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":853.3490937500001,"end":857.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":857.4497187500001,"end":871.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":868.9922187500001,"end":869.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":869.31284375,"end":869.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":873.3290937500001,"end":874.1897187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.625,"end":15.511,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那先請我們食藥署署長食藥署 江署長委員好"},{"start":16.26,"end":42.147,"text":"好署長那就剛好延續剛剛我們羅廷偉委員講的我們那個針對嬰幼兒食品海苔部分這個問題那我們看我們衛福部我們針對嬰幼兒食品海苔這部分在2025年5月我們就去抽驗那我們看他的報告出入時間是在7月2025年7月那公布報告的時間是在2025年的12月15號"},{"start":44.508,"end":65.465,"text":"那這大概有半年的時間那為什麼這報告出入之後已經知道之後要半年之後才公佈說這個食品他的重金屬是超標的這邊跟委員說明一下因為這個部分是在行政院小寶處的公告但是我們被複製這件事情的時候其實我們在"},{"start":66.885,"end":93.558,"text":"衛生局協同食藥署這邊就已經去把這項產品其實要求下架了所以在這個下架之前那個單一產品我們已經有做到下架這件事情什麼時候下架這個就是他們複製我印象是在5月檢查之後後續7月左右我們其實知道的時候我們就做了進一步的去對單一的產品因為檢查不準確所以7月就下架對 那個確確的時間那為什麼要到12月才公佈"},{"start":94.778,"end":123.898,"text":"這個公佈的部分其實是在小寶處的公佈大概不在本署的公佈那我們已經把它給阻斷了這個購買的一個通路了所以這個可能要檢討一下不然你看還有半年的空窗期就像剛剛羅廷委員他說他也是受害者的家長那如果在這之前他知道這個食品是重心鎖超標就算他買回去他可以不要給小孩子吃啊可是你到12月才公佈所以這段時間他就把它吃完了"},{"start":124.598,"end":143.494,"text":"所以這個部分我們其實在先前的時候我們先做了阻斷已經在讓它在市場已經下市了我覺得這部分真的要檢討一下居然有半年的空窗期都已經知道超標只有到半年以後才公佈這讓多少嬰幼兒又去吃下這個重金屬超標違規的食品"},{"start":145.476,"end":160.028,"text":"還有我再請問一下那針對我們嬰幼兒海苔食品它是驗出重金屬超標那據我們了解它如果是用一般食品進口的話有可能沒有超標對不對"},{"start":161.551,"end":188.167,"text":"報告委員因為現在沒有特別針對他們的耗列而且第二件事情是海苔我們可以想像這個海苔在使用的過程當中其實跟我們一般的小朋友的副食品副食品 比如說我們現在長大的粥然後我們想要的果泥等等副食品其實長的其實就是不一樣但是我們從嚴的目前是這樣子的管理如果我剛才提到如果我們從嚴的這樣子管理大概都會不及格"},{"start":188.487,"end":210.717,"text":"那我請問一下嬰幼兒食品跟一般食品到底有沒有區分嬰幼兒食品裡面我們針對只要列在嬰幼兒三歲以下都是用嬰幼兒食品副食品來管理但是假如它是點心它不是副食品它就不會是落在嬰幼兒的副食品的規格所以這個規格管理的過程當中我們認為有必須要重新去"},{"start":212.017,"end":235.609,"text":"討論跟思考的地方目前我們採取的是就是從嚴下架然後呢接下來呢我們其實也會提到過年到了嘛那個海苔其實會造成另外一個部分他到底是副食品還是簡單的點心而已那現在像這個海苔嬰幼兒食品跟一般食品他那個重金屬的標準到底有沒有一樣"},{"start":236.249,"end":265.028,"text":"不一樣只要是嬰幼兒就是非常非常嚴格對啊 所以一般食品所以我剛剛有講如果它是嬰幼兒食品的海苔它可能超標但是如果它是一般食品有可能它是沒有超標的對 一般的食品裡面我們去算過的話因為差了將近100到200倍對啊所以在一般民眾裡面3歲以上的等等非嬰幼兒它其實是可以接受的那在我們食品相關法規像這個海苔嬰幼兒食品跟一般食品"},{"start":265.808,"end":272.042,"text":"那我們再怎麼區分 看得出來嗎他怎麼去區分一般食品跟應用食品"},{"start":272.652,"end":299.072,"text":"報告委員因為全世界針對這議題我們最近收集的資訊大概是跟委員說明如果你一定要給嬰幼兒的你自己要標示那是給嬰幼兒的如果你有更高的所謂價位等等的取向或者爭取你就必須要為人符合嬰幼兒但是一般的食品不是在副食品的部分如果他沒有標示的話其實他是採取的是他們尊重消費者的使用的原則"},{"start":299.853,"end":319.968,"text":"那因為他攝取的量對嬰幼兒來講其實他不是在當副食品在吃副食品是一個轉換類似我們本來喝奶的轉換成為正常的大人的食物裡面的這過程吃的量其實是高的那消費者如何區分一般食品跟嬰幼兒食品"},{"start":320.348,"end":336.317,"text":"報委員所以我們現在進一步的研議如果給嬰幼兒的你要正面標示你要強調給嬰幼兒你就必須要標示所以這是我們努力的方向以前其實所以沒有標示的話就是當一般食品是的那有沒有給嬰幼兒使用他沒有標註嬰幼兒的"},{"start":337.251,"end":358.506,"text":"現在呢我們要求的是希望能夠走向要給嬰幼兒的你就必須正面的表列加強標示在上面這是我們要去努力我覺得這部分真的要加強喔不然你看我們重點嬰幼兒因為嬰幼兒他本身身體器官絕對是比成人還脆弱所以我們對於重金屬跟這些"},{"start":359.785,"end":378.455,"text":"針梅菌素 針梅毒素這一部分我們的要求標準一定是比較高的那所以這一部分你一定要標示清楚啊那針對這一部分我們看我們難道沒有辦法向經濟部標準局說針對玩具還有"},{"start":379.395,"end":398.553,"text":"兒童用品它有一個檢驗的標準而且有一個安全的規章甚至很明確看得到就是給兒童來使用難道我們這部分沒有辦法做嗎對 所以委員這邊的提醒也是我們在看國際在管理這件事情的時候陸陸續續看到國外有這樣子舉個例子"},{"start":400.674,"end":424.321,"text":"韓國針對嬰幼兒的食品他們從今年1月1號開始去年的1月1號開始才有去加強要求這樣子標示的所以我們想說這也是一個重要的議題我們會持續的進進跟研議的所以我說我們經濟部標檢局都可以這樣去做我相信我們衛福部食藥署應該也做得到那是不是針對這部分一個月內可以回復我們研議後的做法"},{"start":426.169,"end":451.478,"text":"容我跟委員說因為食品這個部分其實影響的部分相對是比較大容我們多一點點時間我們在三個月內能夠把相關的研議跟委員做進一步報告對啊 我們要知道說你針對這部分已經知道有這個缺失那我們研議又怎麼去做我是建議應該設計一個專屬嬰幼兒的規章讓消費者很明確的可以知道而且我們現在這個業者"},{"start":453.659,"end":466.749,"text":"針對嬰幼兒食品還是一般食品的進口的部分我們到底怎麼去管制好像他要主動送驗我們才知道然後如果到市面上是抽驗到有問題才下架是不是這樣子"},{"start":467.455,"end":491.769,"text":"跟委員報告一下因為專屬號列裡面其實沒有針對嬰幼兒所以我們在跨部會裡面的研議裡面我們希望把這一塊能夠在研議之後有機會在真的是要給嬰幼兒你必須要怎麼標示而且是進口的時候就已經能夠確立分開來讓民眾在消費的時候在選擇嬰幼兒的食品的過程當中很清楚可以了解我們希望這部分真的加強因為你看"},{"start":492.509,"end":517.828,"text":"我們這個嬰幼兒食品海苔的部分我們發現之後其實週刊也有爆料後來他們去檢查去市面上檢查後來發現很多的電商平台它這些的嬰幼兒食品很多也是重金屬超標那針對這一部分是不是一樣像電商平台這一部分我們也沒有辦法主動去管理"},{"start":518.749,"end":543.649,"text":"報告委員我們其實針對電商平台裡面的標示只要是嬰幼兒的部分我們就有類似或者推論他們是應該要給嬰幼兒或者暗示要給嬰幼兒的使用我們目前的做法是如果是這個就以嚴格的標準來去做管制可是電商平台它市面上沒有販售你怎麼去檢查那等於消費者買到或者你主動去買來抽驗"},{"start":546.031,"end":567.488,"text":"對 我們其實有一部分是這種架構的形式看到是網路的巡查然後架構尤其現在特定的議題非常非常的需要我們去了解的時候我們的同仁是採取這種方式那整體的規劃我們還是希望能夠是在進口裡面的所謂的關稅上面的分責號列能夠達成這樣的效果所以我也提醒 電商平台這一部分"},{"start":567.988,"end":585.154,"text":"目前市面上沒有販售它是輸入的都是等到消費者買到實用那我們食藥署變成要去主動那業者在這一部分如果他沒有主動去送驗其實我們食藥署也是並不知道他有沒有超標的對不對"},{"start":586.394,"end":609.535,"text":"而我們針對現代食品所有食品其實不能說完全靠檢驗但是我們的規格裡面業者必須要對於自己的產品符合這個規定才能夠上架所以我們在目前的研議裡面賦予業者以及電商平台共同針對他們食品是否合規合法要進一步的去研議以及加強的管理"},{"start":610.035,"end":637.587,"text":"所以希望這部分尤其我們嬰幼兒食品它現在我們市面上的可以去查驗那電商平台這部分看怎麼去加強不然我們覺得嬰幼兒這部分因為它本身比較脆弱那如果像這些食品裡面有重金屬 農藥殘留 污染物甚至三聚氰胺等等都會造成對他們身體非常嚴重的影響這部分那就三個月內"},{"start":638.487,"end":665.46,"text":"提供研議後的做法是的謝謝委員的指導好那最後再請問一下我們次長剛剛次長今天有來我想請問一下像我們現在網路市面上有看到很多的偽藥廣告那針對這一部分我們檢察署都有出來為食藥署說明他這個是偽藥可是"},{"start":666.636,"end":674.111,"text":"你看我們這個提供的資料他已經出來說是尾要可是我們現在網路上我看他還是繼續在販售"},{"start":676.487,"end":704.846,"text":"我們會立刻到那個我們網路巡查那邊尋到的話我們會請相關的這個社群媒體業者把他下架所以我現在不了解的是你看我們在高雄地檢署在2025年7月14號就發新聞稿讓大眾知道這個網紅賣的尾要結果我們在2026年1月到現在整整半年在網路上還有廣告而且還買得到而且還可以訂購"},{"start":706.107,"end":728.551,"text":"那我不知道說我們是不是衛福部跟司法機關都沒有做橫向的聯繫而且居然檢察署出來幫食藥署說這個偽藥的成分在幫我們衛福部在做事我們這偽藥的部分其實如果是確定是偽藥的話我們都會跟社群媒體這邊要求它下架這個依法我們可以處理"},{"start":729.164,"end":757.116,"text":"那希望市長了解一下 這已經半年囉檢查署都已經公開說它是偽藥 偽藥的成分我們固定會去做網路巡查有查到我們就會通知對那個社群媒體把它下架而且還有民眾說不但原先的沒下架 它現在還出加強版還2.0 plus這個案子我們回去請我們相關的這個同仁去所以我希望衛福部加強一下 司法機關已經公告是偽藥結果我們衛福部完全沒有作為"},{"start":758.989,"end":785.8,"text":"所以我希望說是不是針對這部分我們要了解一下檢察署都已經公開發新聞稿半年了網路上還在打廣告還在販售還可以訂購報告委員這個應該是食品一般的食品偽裝成藥品所以我們針對網路上面偽裝的這樣子的我們在網路巡查以及刻意這販售的業者以及平台我們希望能夠加強巡查以外遮蔽同時會所以我們不知道問題在哪裡"},{"start":787.32,"end":814.71,"text":"你看2025年7月14号地检署就公开说明这个网红卖的是伪药以他上面写的这个成分其实他的问题在于他是用食品然后宣称为药品那食品宣称为药品事实上就违反我们相关的法规对啊我们看他的广告用语跟宣传的内容他们就是用暗示明示很明确违反药事法跟食品安全卫生管理法主要是药事法"},{"start":815.85,"end":840.859,"text":"對 這部分我希望衛福部來了解一下我們會針對這一個產品我們會請同仁在就是說社群平台上再搜尋一下那有搜尋到我們就請他下架我相信這個可能不是單一個案啦類似像這種情形我覺得我們衛福部還是要掌握一下我們固定其實有網路巡查對啊 然後檢察署都已經發新聞稿公告結果半年以後還在賣 還出加強版這真的是 我覺得這一個笑話"},{"start":841.599,"end":870.518,"text":"也請大家就是真的要麻煩各位民眾就是說在網路上面不要聽信網路上面這一些他用宣稱或者是用這個暗示民視有藥效可是他實際上登記為食品的東西希望衛福部這部分跟檢察署看是不是有個來聯繫的機制這個平台怎麼建立他已經發新聞稿結果市面上還在販售我覺得這對食藥署我覺得不是好事我們會積極來處理希望衛福部來加強一下"},{"start":871.119,"end":871.139,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167167","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167167","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f85178797262f1435a65e1f8a6d37bdd8b89128c6ef5ed786e9bdab1372d823571c45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"11:49:22 - 12:02:05","影片長度":"00:12:43","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T11:49:22+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:02:05+08:00","duration":763,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.7353437500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.64221875,"end":7.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.063468750000002,"end":9.160343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.531593750000003,"end":13.345343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.15159375,"end":11.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.83471875,"end":15.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.98659375,"end":14.037218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.037218750000001,"end":14.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.20596875,"end":14.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.95659375,"end":18.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.59346875,"end":18.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.65221875,"end":21.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.47471875,"end":23.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.625968750000002,"end":27.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.06471875,"end":27.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.44409375,"end":35.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.345968750000004,"end":51.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.02284375,"end":75.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.68159375,"end":125.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.59346875000001,"end":132.28034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.17471875,"end":133.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.87909375,"end":135.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.14471875,"end":137.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.47346875,"end":150.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.45034375,"end":159.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.73596875,"end":160.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.72721875000002,"end":172.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.61596875,"end":172.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.40909375,"end":173.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.47659375,"end":174.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.79284375,"end":174.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.24846875,"end":176.89784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.37034375000002,"end":198.75096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.57784375,"end":207.66096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.33596875,"end":211.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.14971875,"end":221.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.18346875,"end":212.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.32971875,"end":235.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.70346875,"end":233.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.40346875,"end":239.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.60096875000002,"end":246.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.70971875,"end":249.35909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.35909375000003,"end":276.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.40971875000002,"end":249.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.61221875,"end":250.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.54409375000003,"end":253.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.66721875,"end":282.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.32096875,"end":278.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.46346875,"end":327.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.86159375,"end":337.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.10471875,"end":343.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.93909375000004,"end":349.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.59221875000003,"end":351.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.63846875,"end":358.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.85659375,"end":365.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.21846875,"end":380.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.41034375000004,"end":432.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.43596875000003,"end":459.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.19971875000005,"end":459.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.27971875000003,"end":464.22846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.34659375,"end":488.56221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.06846875,"end":491.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.39721875000004,"end":498.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.94034375,"end":509.26784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.68971875000005,"end":511.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.98471875,"end":513.9422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.4822187500001,"end":516.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.81096875,"end":523.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.66221875,"end":547.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.0634687500001,"end":551.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.38346875,"end":559.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.4834687499999,"end":591.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.2253437500001,"end":648.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.82221875,"end":607.5984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.1828437500001,"end":650.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.39346875,"end":654.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.0678437500001,"end":660.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.3328437499999,"end":674.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.71596875,"end":666.7959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":674.60909375,"end":677.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.91659375,"end":689.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.76284375,"end":704.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.22471875,"end":741.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":706.3003437500001,"end":706.8740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.55284375,"end":711.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":742.07534375,"end":760.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":760.8572187500001,"end":763.32096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.663,"end":26.91,"text":"好有請次長還有署長石耀署次長跟署長劉委員我沒有虎視眈眈我只希望朝偉比照辦理謝謝等一下朝偉就還他了希望他有聽到對不起要不要休息趕快休息回來"},{"start":29.5,"end":51.531,"text":"好 謝謝次長今天院版的藥試法跟這個要害救濟法請問次長你知道這個版本是怎麼來的嗎這個版本其實我們去年開始因為相關的一些法規模糊或者是沒有明確所以我們開始做研議另外還就包含委員之前所關心到的我們如果是專案進口的藥品那對於民眾這邊他沒有辦法符合要害救濟那這塊我們也謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":52.691,"end":74.736,"text":"市長今天就直接切入重點我想2024年我們發生了生理食鹽水這樣子輸出液的一個問題產製不足我們只好向國外進口當時我在整個院會的質詢也跟這個邱部長特別提醒無法求償只能用所謂的這個消費者保護法"},{"start":75.785,"end":98.306,"text":"沒有法源依據所以應該這些進口的輸液就是禁藥那今天藥事法跟整個藥害救濟的修法背景不是衛福部今天寫的一個報告這麼簡單我覺得內部的報告就是避重就輕那我很高興剛剛次長有提出我所提到的前因那現在呢我們希望"},{"start":99.167,"end":119.117,"text":"要把這個部分再一次的好好講清楚說明白不要認為全民的記憶會被抹去也不要認為立法委員跟所有的全民會被當成盤子很好騙喔那當時次長也有在臉書回應鑰匙法55條就是零次您當時臉書回應而來的55條在當時次長聲稱輸入的大型輸出液是樣品"},{"start":126.636,"end":137.252,"text":"依據藥事法55條是不得出售那為何健保署當時還付款呢健保署江署長當時你還不是署長喔"},{"start":138.564,"end":160.402,"text":"你是倒楣的戴罪羔羊這個事情跟你無關但是如果當時我沒有揭開這樣子的一個問題今天的院版修法的版本還會不會存在我不知道但是今天審查要事法有12案要害救濟法有10案許多委員寫的版本都跟院版差不多只有我"},{"start":161.789,"end":184.795,"text":"就我們兩個人的版本不太一樣我們來好好的討論一下首先藥事法第55條次長請問你有沒有看到我藥事法第55條的提案原由我今天應該有說明吧您應該都很清楚當時衛生福利部113年9月11日有給我這樣子的一個相關公文我想原則啊"},{"start":185.635,"end":211.098,"text":"我們都看到了有關是否涉及出售的行為原則涉及其費用是否超出藥品的相關製造及供應成本費用而定但是看了今天的書面報告衛福部沒有承認錯誤還在硬拗我依照衛福部給我的公文來修法一字不漏的寫在法條上請問一下是衛福部自己打臉自己喔"},{"start":212.602,"end":239.205,"text":"其實我們藥品的核價本來就要這個跟委員報告謝謝委員支持我們之前那時候因為有公共衛生事件所以有藥品的這個供應韌性那第二個部分就是說在當時的藥品核價雖然是專案進口但是這個專案進口的核價還是要經過相關的共理會決議同意所以這個核價有相關的標準那也不是我們自己衛福部自己決定的那這個過程中有一相關的法規去做調整當然我知道但是今天我們就很清楚嘛看這個公文這公文誰發給我的"},{"start":240.786,"end":259.927,"text":"這是答覆立法委員的正式公文這針尖要有多少的公務人員合張怎麼可以糊弄立法院現在怎麼辦我想問一下報告委員這邊容我一點點的回覆就是委員其實在第55條裡面提出的修正案特別提出出售行為 贈品等等"},{"start":260.687,"end":282.519,"text":"因為這樣的一個內涵在這一次我們整體修法裡面去希望能夠更完整的時候我們把它放在二七之三條裡面就把它涵蓋過去所以當初我們引用這個部分其實有一些精進的地方的確是有精進的地方我承認沒關係我支持你願意精進的一個態度但是我今天想問的是請問一下次長"},{"start":283.547,"end":299.501,"text":"我們要不要承認錯誤第一如果你不承認錯誤那今天的修法就不用啟動了嘛因為你對過去的法律解釋都沒有錯誤那今天幹嘛還要修法呢第二今天的修法還提出了願版就是因為違法的行為在前面"},{"start":300.742,"end":326.753,"text":"現在修法是補正前面的錯誤那你前面的錯誤要不要先跟全國人民道歉不是跟我因為整個用到這個所謂的要害賠償是有可能是當事者是全民第三當初你們還用類推試用我永遠無法忘記竟然可以用類推試用那我想問一下大家今天在座的各位"},{"start":327.973,"end":349.407,"text":"邱部長說可以類推私用 那今天我們幹嘛修法就繼續類推私用就好啦所以衛福部到底要不要跟全民道歉如果不道歉我希望麻煩你把進口輸液的那些錢還回國庫我四點具體的要求一 請具體的跟國人道歉"},{"start":350.626,"end":365.092,"text":"第二依據食藥署的回函修法請衛福部回函給我更正前面前函的一個論述第三我要求對類推適用的說明要做更正"},{"start":366.274,"end":386.802,"text":"第四因為書面報告已經公開的在立法院的網站上所以我今天所有我希望今天的書面報告第五頁第二項要求重寫重新送到立法院請問一下次長可以嗎好先跟委員報告謝謝委員也支持我們接下來在法律上面能夠更明確的去做一些文字上的處理那也跟委員"},{"start":387.222,"end":413.248,"text":"接著說當然委員要求我們對於我們在2024年5月份當時的整個書役短缺後續的一些程序法規上面不明確的部分這個部分我們真的就是道歉很抱歉當時不論是在整個書役處理上面相關的流程上面還有後來的相關的法規援引上面因為過去的很多法源的不足那當時用這個方式來做處理緊急來供應國內在重要的藥品必要藥品上面的這個供應"},{"start":414.088,"end":431.602,"text":"我們這個部分真的誠摯的跟大家抱歉因為其實當時一整年不論是藥廠不論是藥商或者是第一線臨床人員我們都大家都非常的辛苦好那這邊也再一次的為了這整件事情來跟大家做抱歉那這也是為什麼在各位委員的指導之下那我們這次提出來相關的修法法案因為其實"},{"start":432.563,"end":459.486,"text":"必須跟委員說明就是說在這個第55條或者是第27條這一邊過去長期以來不單純只是這一次生理鹹水所遇到這個問題過去長期以來有相關的一些藥品都有遇到類似的狀況原因不一那所以也是因為這個原因我們全面的去盤整在國內藥品的供應上面來講必須要有更明確的法源跟更明確的法律依據那所以這一次我們才在文字上面還有相關條文上面做一個比較明確的處理以上跟委員報告"},{"start":460.667,"end":487.289,"text":"謝謝次長我想我要跟大家講的是我們愛真理但我們更愛全民健康今天不是爭一口氣啊是為人民正當的權益所以今天我們希望衛福部面對問題才能夠解決問題很高興次長有這樣子的一個態度承擔重任並且把這些我們剛剛所提到的一個問題啊我們來加以修正次長您可以先請回了謝謝謝委員"},{"start":489.19,"end":515.815,"text":"接下來我想請問一下署長署長我想跟您探討一個最近我們所有的家長都非常的擔憂非常的驚訝就是我們在食藥署最近有這個抽驗所謂的孩童在食用海苔的部分有驗出了重金屬我們非常非常的憤慨我也必須告訴你我是受害者我也是受害者的家長"},{"start":516.894,"end":533.105,"text":"那我自己有吃啊小孩子吃就跟著吃嘛那我相信更多的家長都有吃但是有週刊爆料在整個行政院消保進入去調查的時候是去年5月抽驗到了去年12月"},{"start":533.965,"end":559.157,"text":"才公佈這過程冗長食藥署到底在整個抽驗的過程當中有沒有及時的回饋有沒有及時的去阻斷這些供貨我們很擔憂啊所以整個報導也講出啦有些海苔已經賣到缺貨那這怎麼辦都吃下肚啦所以這個問題您能不能回答我你們在時去上是不是應該精進"},{"start":560.726,"end":589.226,"text":"報告委員有關於這個起始點是在行政院小寶處針對關心嬰幼兒的食品裡面重金屬含量所以抽檢的過程中抽了國內有一家海苔商海苔的它特別標示裡面比較看起來比較偏向是在嬰幼兒的食用所以在針對海苔或者海藻類的分的管理我先簡單的說明一般的海藻類的是1ppm 1"},{"start":590.487,"end":613.934,"text":"而且要覆水對於嬰幼兒非常非常嚴格的副食品的話是定在0.05千格格的部分是0.04ppm所以這個就是定的差了就是將近有100倍20倍加上覆水之後就有100倍這個有趣的地方就是12月份被提出來是之前其實我們針對"},{"start":615.194,"end":638.209,"text":"消保署的提醒我們我們就請衛生局前去做了把這個貨能夠下架避免繼續的暴露這件事先做那12月份之後呢應該是一些業者或者是提供了一些訊息覺得這個國內會不及格進口的應該也會不及格所以就去驗了七種的確驗了七種之後本署也進一步的去檢驗確立了這件事情"},{"start":638.889,"end":654.134,"text":"那我們就忽然間想了一件事情這件事情吃了亞洲地區其實日韓都吃可從來都沒有提到這件議題所以我們進一步去研議研議的時候發現一件事情對於嬰幼兒的海苔這件事情我們應該是放在"},{"start":655.174,"end":676.842,"text":"副食品的管理還是它只是一個簡單的點心吃的是一點點而已它這個規格是就會不一樣但是我們以重研來去面對這件事情我認為應該重研是的 所以目前我們採取重研所以進一步我們要去研議那意思其實有一點點就對於海苔這一項食品"},{"start":678.09,"end":701.18,"text":"對於嬰幼兒就是完全阻斷因為它是海洋 會濃縮 它有特殊性全世界目前我們沒有看到其他國家揭露這件事情的狀況但是這件事情在我們台灣首先認識 發生我覺得還是應該從嚴的去看但是後續但是我們監管的部分我們持續在研擬因為整整意思就是說這項產品在嬰幼兒是絕原體的"},{"start":702,"end":717.611,"text":"因為他的食品的特殊性好 蘇長我們都知道很重要啦因為你剛剛講很久那朝偉站起來是因為他講很久不是我啊所以要給我一點時間啦但我還是希望具體的一個要求啦第一最嚴格的角度去看待"},{"start":718.211,"end":741.328,"text":"第二 擴大相關的孩童使用不管是零食或附屬品的檢驗進口因為這些問題我相信進口商應該就是不知道 不了解不知道我們的法規這麼嚴苛所以導致進口這樣的問題甚至有的人是知道還故意進口這些都是我們要強力阻斷的所以我希望擴大檢驗這部分 請問署長可以承諾我嗎"},{"start":742.248,"end":760.276,"text":"跟委員這邊報告我們針對相關的進口的部分目前是沒有分裂的號列在嬰幼兒跟所謂的一般的食品所以我們現在是用關鍵字去把它萃取出來做檢驗跟在阻斷在邊境目前我們持續在做好這個部分你一定要承諾好謝謝謝謝羅廷維委員發言接下來請"}]}},{"id":"167166","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167166","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851756abf9d259c55b1c02888e1e08ec371247638a9beb78aab70aa9f53cbca5dff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"11:46:19 - 11:59:07","影片長度":"00:12:48","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T11:46:19+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T11:59:07+08:00","duration":768,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.982218750000001,"end":17.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.766593750000002,"end":18.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.239093750000002,"end":19.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.07346875,"end":25.664093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.664093750000003,"end":79.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.98909375,"end":52.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.32221875,"end":92.23596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.79284375,"end":103.27221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.59284375,"end":109.31346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":109.68471875,"end":135.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":136.27971875,"end":148.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.47596875000002,"end":160.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.96784375000001,"end":183.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.49159375000002,"end":210.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.68596875,"end":225.78471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.15596875000003,"end":237.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.73221875000002,"end":244.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.75221875000003,"end":251.06346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.42221875,"end":253.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.64534375000002,"end":270.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.39784375,"end":272.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.61284375,"end":288.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.61034375,"end":289.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.66096875,"end":289.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.13346875,"end":289.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.43721875,"end":364.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.40159375,"end":358.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.62784375,"end":369.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.20096875,"end":372.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.27659375,"end":372.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.88409375000003,"end":418.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.15096875,"end":426.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":427.59284375000004,"end":443.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.86034375,"end":494.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":494.83971875000003,"end":511.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.14096875,"end":579.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.9740937500001,"end":608.4422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.8303437500001,"end":622.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.3303437500001,"end":630.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.7422187500001,"end":633.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.78846875,"end":638.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.9522187499999,"end":641.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.1922187499999,"end":690.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.09534375,"end":668.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":690.06659375,"end":744.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.47159375,"end":764.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":766.7803437500002,"end":768.1303437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":15.041,"end":18.744,"text":"好謝謝主席我請教育部正部長請正部長"},{"start":25.1,"end":48.153,"text":"委員好部長好今天是就高中以下學校公餐飲食教育有執行的情況困難以及有沒有挑戰然後我們怎麼樣來因應尤其是中央跟地方我們在裁員補助方面的問題有一個專案報告那其實就針對這個修法跟在執行層面可能遇到的挑戰之前好幾次的在就在這個委員會的會議當中其實已經有"},{"start":48.373,"end":67.186,"text":"多所討論所以我主要還是想要請教因為之前我們知道這個教育部針對像財政還有我們政策的延續性你這個無產品質怎麼樣維持然後我們的食品衛生這個管理才是一個專業等等其實確實會遇到一些挑戰你們有做出一些說明"},{"start":67.586,"end":78.987,"text":"在前面幾次會議裡面我覺得好像還有更多具體的數字跟今天的這個報告比起來所以我是不是可以請部長能夠口頭比較具體的來說我們現在遇到主要的挑戰是什麼"},{"start":80.873,"end":100.587,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實因為過去的三張EQ是由中央來補助那這個錢下放了對偏鄉的一些經濟弱勢的學生也由中央來補助對偏鄉離島的這些的中央這個所謂的各校的這個廚房或者中央廚房這些都是由教育部"},{"start":101.487,"end":118.7,"text":"每一年有這個74億的這樣的一個挹注那這些錢全部到地方了那我們當然希望說地方勇於承擔也把協同的營養午餐當作他們在施政的一個重點我覺得這是應該可以肯定但是我們"},{"start":119.5,"end":148.752,"text":"在意的是你怎麼讓學童吃的健康吃的衛生吃的安全這個東西就是我們在未來中央跟地方要合作把這個監督的機制把這個專業的輔導的一個機制要還有信息的揭露然後獎勵優秀的地方政府在怎麼樣讓這個許多的經驗能夠擴散我想這都是教育部在未來要來建立機制的也跟地方來一起來努力的"},{"start":149.614,"end":164.35,"text":"是剛剛提到說我們過去就有補助給地方這總共74億但是如果說因應修法的話有些項目他也會有新增的經費例如說這個營養師然後例如說我們要有專職的午餐秘書等等的"},{"start":164.91,"end":183.115,"text":"那最近因為台北市還有一些縣市陸續都提出說營養午餐來免費這樣的政策那家長呢很多是給予肯定也有一些家長是擔心說那這樣子品質的部分要如何來兼顧或是說品質如何維持穩定這個部分的執行的做法教育部有沒有給一些相關的意見"},{"start":184.714,"end":209.088,"text":"我想包含譬如說這個營養師我們事實上有一些包括這個儲餐的這些人力我們也都用另外的一個重要也補助跟地方來合作來補助一些人事的一些相關的經費那當然在未來就是說我們會期待他要勇於承擔地方要勇於承擔確保這一個品質我想其他是不是"},{"start":209.788,"end":237.191,"text":"是因為剛剛署長有提到說其實跟團體啊專業團體還有地方政府都已經有在討論了對不對那如果以台北市的部分因為你們之前出估學校的營養師如果因應修法的話他全國總體會增加的經費大約在兩億七千多萬那麼營養午餐專職的話會新增的基費大概在五億五千多萬那如果以台北市而言的話他營養師跟專職秘書大概會新增多少錢呢有沒有一個出估"},{"start":238.211,"end":252.702,"text":"這個要詳細看線型配置跟目標差距一般而言一筆預算的話新北或台北大概有一定的規格以我們總數而言台北市大概會佔十分之一到十二分之一那有沒有請地方政府開始再盤點了呢"},{"start":253.923,"end":270.439,"text":"目前我们咨询的几个县市有开始盘点但有一点需要在专法上的确立可是在上次有答应专法可能还在研修的过程有些事不能等因此我们跟营养师全联会就有一些了解包含"},{"start":271.468,"end":287.718,"text":"工作職責包含分工有一個RACI的專表大家都進行研商包含人力的配置大家都能夠有一個拉一個期程短期內努力什麼再過兩年三年五年八年要努力什麼大家都有一個共識而且定期會有一個工作小組"},{"start":288.823,"end":304.322,"text":"是 那这个部分呢因为专法至少在我们委员会这个是不分党派的委员都支持也有提案版本那甚至也有人是我个人是希望更审慎一点在执行层面跟地方政府有更多的讨论再来进行修法"},{"start":304.662,"end":315.251,"text":"但有些委員是希望說要加快覺得說速度是第一優先所以我希望你們跟地方政府在討論的時候尤其是這個營養師跟午餐秘書專職的話這個基本上共識性很高嘛那可預測的一定是新增預算經費會變多那像有些縣市已經在開始本來沒有午餐免費現在變成都免費他也會增加更多地方政府的支出嘛"},{"start":328.322,"end":339.912,"text":"但請你們務必跟地方政府在討論的時候但例如我是台北市我就會很關切了那台北市政府有沒有就未來修法過後我們的這個營養師跟午餐秘書的這個經費有沒有來做預先準備因為這個是我們剛剛部長所講的你要維持品質的穩定是很重要的一個人力的因素關鍵因素所以就要拜託我們教育部跟地方政府在談的時候"},{"start":355.326,"end":369.667,"text":"除了午餐免費之外這個經費跟人力一定要把它預先規劃進來那再來是我自己也很關切的就是我們交易部1月14號推出了一個台灣台語輸入法的APP"},{"start":370.949,"end":393.186,"text":"這個應該是我們終身教育司推廣到今天大概不到一週下載次數有剛剛破了一千次那我看到很多人反應說這個功能的服務實在是真的有所需要因為它的對象大概是讓說就是它口說自然語是台語但是不會使用輸入法的人它也可以就未來可以用台語"},{"start":394.246,"end":417.131,"text":"這個文字來進行溝通對來進行溝通跟互動所以很多人說確實有這個需求我看那個APP上面的評論有人說啊這真的會更多這樣子但是呢我們也很關切是也希望他推廣成效可以再普及率可以再更高一點所以我想問說我們當初這個APP設定的目標族群大概是有沒有特定例如說校園內還是說校園外的"},{"start":420.539,"end":442.969,"text":"跟委員報告這個事實上都包括因為我們知道我們目前在國家語言法裡面有客語這個我們有客委會原住民語也有原住民委員會那我確實進來教育部以後就是有許多的這些他的母語是台語的他們總覺得我們在推動的一個力道是不夠的所以我們再重啟一個方向"},{"start":444.162,"end":458.617,"text":"來普及就是說我們也在去年裡邊開始這一個跟22個地方縣市政府從幼兒園開始就有所謂的母語的一個教學這是一個另外我們也鼓勵地方縣市教育局處"},{"start":459.338,"end":476.688,"text":"能夠再獲得縣市首長的支持我們把退場的學校能夠變成一個主題的語言或者本土語言或者本土文化的一些主題館的一個教學資源的一個善用跟建制"},{"start":477.168,"end":494.142,"text":"那另外一個就在中生學習裡面我們這個中生糧食廠他們也非常用心結合科技裡面就開發了這一個用台灣台語直接口說然後就可以輸進去以後它不僅是阿公阿嬤能夠很快的在這一個"},{"start":495.223,"end":510.84,"text":"這個APP裡面就能夠把話做出來能夠把那個字呈現也開始去深入在各級教育裡面在這個所謂的台語的一個教學我們希望當然那就只有語言的一個附贈跟文化的一個保留能夠以時俱進"},{"start":511.22,"end":528.972,"text":"我個人是很肯定我們中宣教育師做這個台灣台語的推廣因為台灣台語也是我們的國語也是我們國家語言之一那麼過去可能因為威權時代的關係曾經有禁止母語這樣的政策那麼所以在時代上面的落差也許是啦"},{"start":529.552,"end":546.201,"text":"像近期這個觀念上面立法院就發生一件事情在這個1月15號我們立法院同仁王逸川委員他在立法院的公聽會上面他使用台灣台語發言但是卻遭到與會的張亞中教授去試著說他說你說國語好不好"},{"start":546.921,"end":569.528,"text":"言下之意他認為台灣台語不屬於國語才這樣說嘛對不對雖然張亞中是我過去台大政治系的教授但是我還是必須說當下他這個發言實在是很不公平可以這麼說啦因為如果一個教授還有這種觀念已經台灣台語是國語的一部分這是有法源依據的我們甚至行政院有國家語言的推廣的方案這樣的計畫"},{"start":571.949,"end":585.947,"text":"那一個大學教授都不了解的話真的說一句那我們未來要怎麼去教孩子所以呢我認為教育部有這個責任那這一群人也許過往因為時代背景的成因也不是很能怪他們這觀念上面可能一時還轉換不過來"},{"start":587.469,"end":607.734,"text":"但我們就要去加強來推廣那事實上在立法院我們使用母語來諮詢也是各黨派都有潛力的就像國民黨的徐志榮 鄭天才委員民進黨的湯惠珍 吳立華委員都曾經使用客語或是原住民族語來進行諮詢我們中央部會 客委會跟園民會也曾使用母語來做"},{"start":609.954,"end":629.982,"text":"所以這個其實是很正常的事情我覺得我們應該要多加去推廣那最後就想要請教因為我們國家語言發展整體方案這個規劃我看目前是到2026年民國115年度那麼明年我們有沒有相關因為教育部雖然主責是文化部但是教育部有部分負責的方案我們明年有沒有繼續延續性的計畫"},{"start":633.881,"end":641.117,"text":"包委員我們這部分會配合文化部有我們有那個羽化方案會持續來推經費儘可能也會盡量來提高謝謝"},{"start":642.25,"end":667.415,"text":"好 這個就要請你們繼續來努力了那最後一點時間就是有關大學法的修法還是要請部長來多幫忙因為部長過去是大學校長出身所以我想您是最好的校長跟學生之間溝通的橋樑目前我看針對大學法學生有一個核心的訴求就是希望增加對學校事務的參與主要有兩點第一個就是校務會議學生代表的比例希望要增加第二點就是校長臨選委員會"},{"start":668.795,"end":687.472,"text":"希望要有學生的代表事實上現在公立大學當中也有29個學校校長聯學委員會是有學生代表的那因為這個禮拜即將就要是大學校長的會議嘛我看部長其實是每年都有受邀參與的部長能不能夠幫學生也跟我們大學的校長多來溝通這兩方面的"},{"start":690.134,"end":713.032,"text":"这确实我们在这一个感谢委员的关心大学法怎么样去让学生有更多的一些参与确实我们在这一个星期四这个本周的星期四星期五我们也纳入了这个大学法修正的一些相关的内容也希望我们各大学从实务面里边去充分的讨论我们在未来的一个包含"},{"start":714.072,"end":731.825,"text":"臺灣在人才培育裡面因應這個科技的一個快速的發展我們有怎麼樣一個更大的一個未來的一些想像在學術的發展人才的培育包括對產業上的一些這個資源的引入我想我們都會有一個更前面的一些討論那當然"},{"start":733.346,"end":743.977,"text":"学生的一个参与他是一个利害关系人本来就是大学许多的一些场域里边我们是鼓励利害关系人能够有机会表达他们的意见"},{"start":744.582,"end":763.897,"text":"是因為針對大學法的修法現在看起來所謂的厲害關心人例如大學的校方跟學生有些訴求是還需要尋求共識的但是我認為這個溝通的過程也是校園民主很重要的一部分也希望教育部可以擔任請這個橋樑讓這個溝通可以實質的產生好要拜託部長好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝吳佩奕委員"}]}},{"id":"167165","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167165","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851cb38915cda1884c0e1f8a6d37bdd8b89247638a9beb78aabb0ed05b3693a1b515ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"11:32:21 - 11:49:14","影片長度":"00:16:53","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T11:32:21+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T11:49:14+08:00","duration":1013,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.5959687500000004,"end":2.7478437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.79846875,"end":5.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.53221875,"end":6.629093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.46034375,"end":9.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.953468750000003,"end":11.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.62409375,"end":15.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.89346875,"end":48.141593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.415968750000005,"end":47.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.39471875,"end":101.16284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.60096875,"end":51.837218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.83784375,"end":111.05159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.86159375000001,"end":122.67846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.03284375000001,"end":123.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.69096875000001,"end":132.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.18034375,"end":125.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.75721875000002,"end":133.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.63034375,"end":167.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.38034375,"end":169.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.83971875,"end":181.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.42034375,"end":181.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.09534375,"end":182.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.73659375000003,"end":210.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.73221875000002,"end":236.73659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.03034375000001,"end":220.67159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.41159375,"end":253.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.23659375000003,"end":250.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.34159375000002,"end":312.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.23846875000004,"end":265.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.82596875,"end":355.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.75596875,"end":359.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.17721875,"end":361.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.96596875,"end":372.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.05284375,"end":395.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.28971875,"end":430.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.83284375000005,"end":439.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.13096875,"end":444.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.07596875,"end":441.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.83096875,"end":443.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.01221875000005,"end":446.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.43784375,"end":466.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.88659375000003,"end":470.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.37971875000005,"end":468.80159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.51034375,"end":472.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.28221875,"end":494.43471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.03409375,"end":499.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.48909375000005,"end":500.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.85159375,"end":500.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.67846875000004,"end":509.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.09471875,"end":533.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.70284375,"end":540.0647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.5034687500001,"end":542.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.7309687500001,"end":546.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.4053437499999,"end":549.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.7509687500001,"end":557.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.74971875,"end":559.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.98596875,"end":558.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.3190937500001,"end":587.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.9897187500001,"end":589.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.2678437500001,"end":593.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.9128437500001,"end":594.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.87471875,"end":614.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.05721875,"end":637.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.33221875,"end":654.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.8315937500001,"end":670.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.16659375,"end":684.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.9197187500001,"end":712.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.00409375,"end":685.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.3372187500001,"end":686.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.8147187500001,"end":709.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.5947187500001,"end":723.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.51284375,"end":792.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.97034375,"end":804.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":796.9865937500001,"end":798.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":805.18784375,"end":807.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.7865937500001,"end":810.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.85346875,"end":813.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":813.76034375,"end":837.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":825.9609687500001,"end":826.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.88784375,"end":835.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":836.28846875,"end":861.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":859.2722187500001,"end":859.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":861.44909375,"end":891.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":892.3303437500001,"end":896.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.6003437500001,"end":893.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":896.32971875,"end":898.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":896.90346875,"end":897.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":898.01721875,"end":909.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":909.44159375,"end":914.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":909.7453437500001,"end":910.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":914.1497187500001,"end":927.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":927.58221875,"end":928.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":928.42596875,"end":942.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":943.2590937500001,"end":943.6978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":943.6978437500002,"end":944.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":945.0815937500001,"end":945.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":945.45284375,"end":960.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":960.3703437500001,"end":960.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":961.1297187500002,"end":965.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":962.0915937500001,"end":962.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":963.27284375,"end":963.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":964.1672187500001,"end":971.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":971.8959687500001,"end":973.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":972.0478437500001,"end":972.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":972.72284375,"end":976.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":976.09784375,"end":978.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":976.5534687500001,"end":979.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":979.47284375,"end":985.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":985.78409375,"end":985.8853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":985.8853437500002,"end":986.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":985.91909375,"end":1000.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1000.54971875,"end":1000.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1000.7690937500001,"end":1005.1397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1001.52846875,"end":1001.8997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1001.9165937500002,"end":1002.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1002.94596875,"end":1003.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1005.0890937500001,"end":1011.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1009.6115937500001,"end":1011.50159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.932,"end":14.887,"text":"謝謝 謝謝主席 有請次長請次長次長上台前我還是要提醒署長那橄欖油佔我們國內消費者使用的使用的比例是非常高"},{"start":16.713,"end":34.682,"text":"然後這事情要處理好我剛剛會特別要求說希望一個月那當然次長跟署長是希望兩個月嘛我還是建議可能要更積極的因應因為現在連一些書室都都是很習慣去使用這個橄欖油所以這個部分我還是再度提醒不要造成署長一來的"},{"start":36.122,"end":61.754,"text":"這一個大風暴對整個實案的問題會很大的這樣的一個挑戰好不好 蘇珀你先請回沒關係不過這個事情好像跟你也有關係上個禮拜15日台灣跟美國的關稅已經這個貿易已經達成了重大攻勢台灣蘇美的商品關稅稅率降到15%然後不疊加那更重要的是其中美國將對學民藥"},{"start":63.755,"end":82.402,"text":"學名藥的原料非吉林組件及稀缺的自然資源等項目實施零趴的互惠關稅所以對臺灣的醫藥發展絕對是重磅消息也許我們隔天就看到製藥界這樣的一個發表聲明雖然我國蘇美藥品項目不多"},{"start":82.922,"end":110.784,"text":"但美國對臺的零關稅對學民藥的發展仍然是利多有助於外銷市場的多元化所以這個報導我想就不再贅述了它最主要還是希望呼籲應該趕快組國家隊來搶攻美國的市場所以過去我們都知道全球的原料藥的供應都是來自中國、印度兩大國高度的把持當然這次的臺美的學民藥還是這個學民藥的原料"},{"start":112.089,"end":140.495,"text":"這樣的一個互惠關稅對台灣的原料藥品的市場策略無疑是鼓吹搶攻的一個號角所以因此台灣一定要把握這次機會我想市長應該可以認同吧非常認同你跟部長一個應該就是台灣這個台灣藥的國家隊的隊長跟副隊長對不對不敢啦 我們還有經濟部要一起努力對啊 經濟部也要一起努力好 你還坐下來你就不太努力了 OK 好"},{"start":141.764,"end":168.651,"text":"所以這個我想要迅速盤點資源你一定整個市場策略然後我們要把握這一次的機會讓台灣要能在美國打穩根基 展望全球所以市長才特別提到經濟部也是要一起來我想這個是毋庸置疑其實橄欖油跟經濟部也有關係這個大家都非常清楚那我要這邊具體另外再提出一個建議副市長你先請回這就沒你的工作了 不好意思未來可能就會了"},{"start":170.885,"end":188.981,"text":"我要在這邊具體提出建議現在在司法法治委員會已經在審查這個組織法就是要把國家的中醫藥研究所變成這個國家中醫研究院把藥已經拿掉我也不曉得什麼原因然後他們去年3月的時候有跟嘉義市政府有簽訂一個MOU這我們的蘇司長"},{"start":192.364,"end":209.778,"text":"要在中台灣建立一個中藥草的研發廊帶研發廊帶然後我覺得這樣量能好像不夠尤其如果你現在台美關稅可以迎來如此重大的利多我們都對這個中藥的原料的投注一定要相對"},{"start":210.919,"end":232.655,"text":"相對應擴大對不對才有機會在美國市場國際市場長期把持著中國印度來競爭然後新冠當時的新冠那個會員的時候對不對我們的藥中藥來講打響這樣的一個知名度確實有一定的這樣一個療效所以我們既然要建立這個中藥草的這個狼帶應該是要擴大所以從彰化"},{"start":237.475,"end":252.422,"text":"如果嘉義嘛從北延伸是雲林彰化從南延伸是不是還可以到什麼地方我不曉得那這個一定要達到某種程度的一個擴大了一個規模所謂的經濟規模嘛這有好過嘛不過他是講研發啦他還是把研發"},{"start":253.762,"end":270.439,"text":"鹽花狼帶這有點奇怪台灣應該有很多的在本草幹木裡面台灣很多的水質土壤空氣還有他的海拔其實是種的出來的怎麼過去我們好像這一塊裡面的這個規模一直沒辦法擴大"},{"start":271.119,"end":298.927,"text":"我不曉得是什麼原因然後他現在又叫做叫做研發中藥草的研發狼帶還處在研發的階段那我就覺得很不夠成熟在我講不應該是這個樣子的所以如果次長你來你來你來HANDLE這個事情我覺得才可能有辦法讓這個速度可以更加的快速所以我我是在這邊距離這個建立部長建立次長啦你已經叫他不在了"},{"start":300.547,"end":324.415,"text":"中藥草種植的產業鏈台灣也可以跟台灣的整個精緻的農業做整體這樣的一個鏈結我們像在我們雲林很多的農漁牧也是台灣的糧倉然後農作物也好 漁牧的產業也好都可以透過生物的技術萃取精華及製藥的相關的原料"},{"start":325.075,"end":343.74,"text":"所以如果可以未來搭配中藥的這個狼袋我覺得應該可以相烏相承那今日審查要修法就是要因應新冠疫情以來原料 原料藥的供應不穩且藥品需求上揚導致市場傳出國內的藥品供應短缺的問題所以我希望透過這次修法"},{"start":344.44,"end":357.729,"text":"我想我們更應該可以來強化自己的製藥跟生產的這個能力所以也在這邊希望我這樣建議市長能不能在一個月內可以把這樣的一個中藥的攘帶可以擴大"},{"start":360.391,"end":377.046,"text":"來做相關的一些評估 可以吧先跟委員報告 委員剛剛所提醒的都非常 我們都非常的能夠了解 也非常肯定因為其實我們當然在114年有在雲林這邊我們有鼓勵優質中藥的種植那有補助一些相關的特定的藥材"},{"start":379.008,"end":394.228,"text":"因為我們在評估我們的藥品供應韌性的時候不是只有西藥事實上中藥材的部分因為過去幾乎多數都仰賴中國那一小部分也仰賴可能馬來西亞或印度所以我們也我自己雖然這不是我業館但是我跟中醫藥師還有跟業館的裝置還有甚至包含屢次我們都討論過就是說我們"},{"start":396.371,"end":421.061,"text":"台湾尤其是在不论是东部或西部我们都有一些地方是非常优质的种植的产地所以说如果我们从上方我们包含的中医药师这边认为有潜力或者是我们国内有大量需求的这些中药材往下去辅导我们这个部分也跟农业部有讨论过就是说有一些优质的土壤或者是农场来协助他们辅导来种植那这边我们事实上要有这个引导"},{"start":421.641,"end":436.471,"text":"因為中醫藥師知道哪些藥品有潛力哪些藥品有這個需求而且我們國內種的品質搞不好比其他國家更好那這邊來協助跟引導才有辦法長出這個狼袋來我用這樣形容啦市長能不能認同啦台灣人對中藥其實也是覺得比較好啦比較好意思是說它比較溫和啦"},{"start":440.185,"end":464.629,"text":"大家依賴很重的啦 也不會覺得 還有我們食補藥補都有啦對啦 但是它比較溫和 但是也比較慢啦 比較慢就對了但是政府針對中醫藥草的這個 不管是專區 不管是人帶 不能太慢啦是 好它太溫和 其實中國自己 現在連他們自己的這樣的種植的中醫藥草都不夠供給他們自己國內的使用"},{"start":465.089,"end":491.595,"text":"他們也要靠進口了而且他們的品質跟裡面的一些農藥等重金屬事實上是有一點疑慮的我們國內這邊包含也跟委員報告我們包含東部那邊之前包含慈濟的院長跟我們報告過他們那邊有一些是很不錯的產地國內這邊就是我們剛剛所說的雲嘉南彰化雲嘉南這邊事實上有一些地方他們之前的研究都認為說在那邊種植某一些藥材它的濃度或活性是非常好的這邊我們會持續跟中醫藥師來研議"},{"start":493.115,"end":513.149,"text":"好 因為時間的關係 這樣就滿晚一個月啦我們不能太慢啦 說得快一點 好不好好 這邊我們藥效加速我最後一題是這樣啦為了治療糖尿病 研發的長臂素因為能抑制食慾現在已經被當作這個減重的聖品導致亂象重生那過去是花生減肥民眾跟糖尿病患在搶藥"},{"start":514.57,"end":541.962,"text":"2021年開始持續發生這個缺藥控貨的問題直到去年9月食藥署才公告恢復正常供應然後並強調持續請藥廠優先供應藥品給治療糖尿病醫療機構以及調製藥品慢性處彎腺的藥局確保藥品優先於糖尿病患這樣的呼籲到底有沒有效這第一件事情第二件事情現實是整個說說真的市場是越來越大亂象真的也是越來越多"},{"start":543.142,"end":558.998,"text":"如果不再即時介入 一定會再出問題我提供一個報導給我們次長跟署長看一下這個內容我就不再追溯了還有組團的 還有淘寶的還有其他你自己看委員你聽到這個我們有注意"},{"start":559.919,"end":585.818,"text":"對 有注意這個是去年年底的時候還是這樣喔那九月我們才說食藥水災公告恢復正常供應那去年年底就變成有這樣的亂象持續到現在應該不間斷了然後可以發現現在民眾是無所不用其極在打針彼此見面第一句話說你有煮嗎 你煮得不錯喔你如果炒這麼多 你是煮多少你一隻要多少你一隻煮多少"},{"start":590.322,"end":614.159,"text":"我在這一個月內在立法院聽到這樣聲音真的實在是平衡到你難以想像或許我們這種體格比較不會不需要但是就經常會聽到你就知道這個回棒症也蠻嚴重的所以才很多的這有回棒症的朋友真的很需要這樣的一個一個一個一個瘦瘦症的一個一個注射但是"},{"start":615.14,"end":636.729,"text":"如果正規的撿回門診所開的處方目前知會是從價格8000到3萬不等嘛坦白講他算是昂貴的一個治療費用了然後台灣利益回放政策方針目前著重於回放預防如果根據英國的研究BMI大於40的時候在10年內可以減重至正常體重的病患每年約只有千分之一啦"},{"start":639.231,"end":653.929,"text":"回棒症的後果是什麼?如果1966年到1972年美國癌症協會指出回棒症會增加罹患子宮頸癌、胃癌、膽囊癌、直腸癌腎癌、乳癌的機會如果體重都超過這個理想的40%那可能"},{"start":654.93,"end":667.499,"text":"男性會增加33%的這個罹癌的機會女性會增加到55%所以WHO也才會去公布13種跟回放相關的這個癌症所以治療糖尿病的長臂數變成減肥聖品也證明這兩者之間其實有相關連性"},{"start":671.221,"end":698.486,"text":"正相關的靈性啦所以還有其他心血管三高等慢性病都跟肥胖症有關所以如果我們發現這個肥胖持續的發生也就是加重健保的負擔與支出嘛這個我想你們都非常清楚委員這邊跟委員報告如果是像剛剛委員提到BMI大於40或者是他明確是已經是符合我們講肥胖症的診斷的話事實上這邊是給藥indication是沒有問題的那健保這邊其實也相關的幾乎是OK的"},{"start":698.906,"end":715.166,"text":"但是現在在市面上看到所以說這個部分為什麼我們之前要控貨是因為我們要控給真正符合適應症必須醫師診斷需要用藥而且符合用藥指引的這是第一塊那第二塊現在市面上看到的亂象其實多數它都是其實就是不符合我們剛剛所說藥品使用"},{"start":716.187,"end":742.8,"text":"用适应症的这一群人那他在我们叫off-level use他非适应症的这一群那非适应症的居民当然我们再次强调目前我们在查查没有处方贩售处方药的这个部分因为他包含了他违反药师法跟医师法所以这个部分我们有查到或者地方卫生局他们有查的话他如果没有适应症没有经过医师处方自行买药的话这个部分事实上是违法的那另外一个部分就是说当然在如果是医师这边开出来的处方"},{"start":743.22,"end":757.696,"text":"那给药他有如果不符合适应症他是适应症之外使用的话我们当然现在还是希望说第一个我们还是持续来宣导用药因为像委员提到的没有经过医师诊断然后他自己去买药第一他到底是不是他很有可能是伪药可能是劣药"},{"start":758.377,"end":781.337,"text":"那這是第一個問題第二個部分沒有在醫師指導之下藥師指導之下給予藥品的使用這個是非常危險的行為那這個也會造成後續的一些傷害所以還是要強調就是說這個藥品目前認為非常有潛力那剛剛委員所引述的相關的文件也是一樣他在於符合適應症十分嚴重的病態肥胖的病人他是真的有治療效果我們也希望也肯定他能夠實際在這邊治療但是"},{"start":781.937,"end":808.856,"text":"如果單純只是為了自己要去改變外貌甚至我們看到有些BMI已經很低那醫師還持續給藥的這個我們認為是不符合的也認為不但不鼓勵而且我們認為不可以這樣子做好 主席那個超過時間都是次長講的不是我 謝謝委員給我這個機會對 我還是要回應一下我們現在的這個減肥的門診基本上都還是智慧啦 對不對我覺得這個也是國家針對減肥政策的問題所在"},{"start":811.994,"end":840.789,"text":"這個我們必須要大大的檢討我們甚至於之前跟部長已經討論到對身心障礙者的減肥有其必要的趕快的加緊的腳步來去做相關的一些因應所以林林總統加起來我還是希望市長重視這個事情是不是在最短時間如果參照英國他們有十年健康計畫所以賴總統在講的健康台灣沒有把這一塊囊塊在裡面就有問題了健康台灣888裡面其實我們第一個8是找到那80%"},{"start":841.749,"end":869.46,"text":"第二個八就是行為介入我們還是認為雖然我們自己是醫界而且我們也知道有藥品但是我們還是希望多數的民眾可以從健康行為促進行為改變行為介入先來做因為很多的人很多的人他事實上是還沒有到需要用到藥品來協助他減重那需要藥品減重事實上已經到了很多病態的情況我知道所以剛剛我跟你講連英國都覺得這樣的處理方式當然我們的模式可能跟他不盡相同不過只有親吻之一"},{"start":870.28,"end":891.159,"text":"那你講的888的模式如果一開始執行我們半年來做一個追蹤你覺得可以達到什麼樣的一個效益然後那個會不會超越過英國這麼少的這樣的一個比例這個我們當然是可以來檢討但是現在我們看到亂象就這樣通通沒有在想到所謂的888政策反而是說說真是最好"},{"start":892.403,"end":908.983,"text":"然後取得管道是非常的多元而且非常的凌亂很多都是錯誤或是非法管道所以我是希望市長可以具體的回應委員會是不是在一樣在一個月時間大力的來做相關的一些盤整調查甚至也要做相關的一些整頓"},{"start":910.004,"end":927.883,"text":"一個月之內我們把一些相關目前的了解還有未來的規劃給委員會一個報告最後我還是希望我們台灣跨出第一步正式回報問題已經有了啦但是還是嚴厲相關的健保的門診治療讓回報患者勇氣的尋求正規的醫療協助然後而且在合理的負擔範圍可以吧"},{"start":928.459,"end":941.732,"text":"委員其實現在如果是符合這個藥品使用的病人事實上都在健保這邊都會給予那其實現在看到亂象多數人這種他事實上我們現在看到我們更擔心跟委員報告我真的更擔心的事情是BMI只有18還用藥"},{"start":945.715,"end":970.141,"text":"這個是非常危險的行為這是很不合理的行為所以事實上我們現在更擔心的那一塊就是他不符合適應症符合適應症健保這邊給予支持給予協助治療這個部分我們絕對支持但是很多現在我們看到的事情是不符合適應症他BMI22是根本就不需要用藥根本就不該用藥這塊是我們現在比較關鍵的部分所以你們去年9月說已經恢復整個這樣的一個公告供應正常但是到底供應給誰"},{"start":971.963,"end":999.181,"text":"你的公益正常是指什麼公益正常是指他符合適應症必須用藥的民眾病人而不是自己覺得想要更瘦一點的人但是我剛剛所提供的相關的訊息基本上應該不是這樣還有私底下的一些的作為我們也會接下來我自己會召集相關學協會因為這個部分當然以糖尿病專業或內分泌這邊他們有相關的指引這個部分沒有問題但是事實上目前很多用藥的部分是沒有遵照指引的那我們也希望說專業學協會這邊要對於非"},{"start":1002.143,"end":1010.489,"text":"符合適應證 或者是過度濫用的部分要有一些態度下面的委員已經對我虎視眈眈了OK 好 一個月內啦 好不好大力的來整頓這件事情 好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167153","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167153","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851db7978df47f35d0175d69df13e4e8eda247638a9beb78aab82244cc87e3a1d295ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"09:31:05 - 09:41:58","影片長度":"00:10:53","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:31:05+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:41:58+08:00","duration":653,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.37659375,"end":6.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.658468750000001,"end":8.586593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.082843750000002,"end":19.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.96034375,"end":20.669093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.04034375,"end":33.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.915968750000005,"end":45.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.67784375,"end":71.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.26034375,"end":83.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.95034375,"end":99.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.64409375000001,"end":101.31471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.93909375000001,"end":104.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.19596875,"end":109.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.66784375,"end":117.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.90284375,"end":121.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.36221875000001,"end":127.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.85909375000001,"end":130.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.20034375,"end":164.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.37659375,"end":192.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.76221875000002,"end":181.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.73221875000002,"end":185.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.33409375000002,"end":208.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.16284375,"end":220.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.41409375,"end":225.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.13909375,"end":229.54784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.93596875,"end":234.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.55971875,"end":235.04909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.08284375000002,"end":237.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.47909375,"end":269.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.96346875,"end":271.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.73534375,"end":275.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.97159375,"end":272.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.03909375,"end":272.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.69284375,"end":277.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.24096875000004,"end":278.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.10159375,"end":290.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.37409375000004,"end":289.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.96034375,"end":298.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.11534375,"end":301.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.90784375000004,"end":306.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.94159375000004,"end":302.32971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.22346875,"end":315.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.90659375,"end":316.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.23471875,"end":321.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.21284375000005,"end":322.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.35596875000005,"end":324.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.73971875,"end":327.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.55784375,"end":343.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.57221875000005,"end":350.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.27159375,"end":353.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.34284375000004,"end":366.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.30471875,"end":358.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.75846875,"end":374.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.63909375000003,"end":391.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.88534375,"end":393.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.06221875,"end":397.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.36971875,"end":398.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.36534375,"end":400.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.99784375,"end":402.95534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.10721875,"end":404.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.54159375,"end":407.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.44409375000004,"end":418.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.90659375,"end":423.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.34034375000005,"end":425.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.37409375000004,"end":425.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.46659375,"end":430.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.17471875,"end":432.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.13221875000005,"end":452.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.66346875000005,"end":436.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.60784375000003,"end":440.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.23159375,"end":446.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.23034375000003,"end":454.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.40284375000005,"end":456.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.46596875,"end":461.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.49971875000006,"end":457.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.96721875000003,"end":465.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.39721875000004,"end":466.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.08471875000004,"end":466.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.75971875000005,"end":470.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.98284375000003,"end":475.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.32784375000006,"end":477.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.12471875000006,"end":480.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.36096875000004,"end":480.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.39471875000004,"end":481.77846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.22534375000004,"end":486.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.87909375000004,"end":503.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.49909375000004,"end":488.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.45034375000006,"end":511.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.60159375,"end":511.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":511.47846875000005,"end":527.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.2022187499999,"end":524.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.9109687499999,"end":537.1453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.33096875,"end":541.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.6003437500001,"end":547.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.9622187500001,"end":550.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.7297187500001,"end":559.1840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.40346875,"end":560.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.80409375,"end":587.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.02596875,"end":574.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.95596875,"end":596.1572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.4272187500001,"end":607.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.1047187500001,"end":632.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.0290937500001,"end":644.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.04846875,"end":650.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.6084687499999,"end":655.01721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.381,"end":6.166,"text":"好 謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員大家早 有請劉世芳部長請劉世芳部長"},{"start":20.09,"end":42.536,"text":"部長早部長先跟您說明一下今天我們專案報告的主題有一個有事關於全台灣的社會住宅賴總統當時在選前特別承諾在2032年要興建25萬社會住宅我跟各位報告一下25萬戶是如何來的就是蔡英文總統執政8年原本目標20萬戶興建12萬戶"},{"start":45.917,"end":70.206,"text":"所以賴清德總統他認為要比蔡英文總統多做一點所以他預計要興建13萬戶所以12加13就是25萬戶所以他在2032年才會提出興建全台灣25萬戶的社會住宅可是現在他的政策轉彎巧巧的把這個他的目標13萬戶下降到4萬戶所以我們現在今天我要幫我們的這個"},{"start":71.526,"end":95.635,"text":"招委說一句話所以今天我們的專案報告的內容主題才是賴清哲總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討所以內政部因為已經坦誠公開要從13萬戶下降到3、4萬戶的社會住宅跟當時賴清哲總統的承諾相去甚遠是不是當時的評估發生了什麼問題是不是選舉的詐騙話術那是不是可以請這個"},{"start":99.697,"end":101.111,"text":"部長稍微簡單解釋一下"},{"start":102.972,"end":130.348,"text":"謝謝張委員的關心第一個賴總統所提出的這個設宅的進度我們也都知道從蔡總統到現在為止照顧弱勢然後照顧很多年輕族群這是我們的基本方向所以事實上我剛在報告的時候已經特別提到行政院已經有提出一個全面性的檢討也就是三軌並進從社會住宅的興建包租代管跟租金補貼這三個一起來處理"},{"start":131.269,"end":151.41,"text":"那當然這裡會牽涉到我們在調整的時候怎麼樣更務實的調整跟委員報告我們從陸陸續續出來的這個租金補貼發現到說現在的社會住宅在興建的過程當中其實他所需要的宿地都是集中在北北桃中這些淡黃區域也就是都市計畫密集區"},{"start":152.771,"end":166.413,"text":"才是真正社會住宅需求的一個方向那既然是這個樣子的我們考慮到它的可行性還有它的立即性跟精準性所以我們在做務實性的調整那既然有務實性的調整的話那繼續盤點當中那同時我們也持續的在跟各縣市地方政府尤其是北北桃中的市政府來協調因為在縣市長不管是在選舉的時候或在執政的過程當中"},{"start":180.936,"end":192.806,"text":"他們也非常的盡力啦要想要達成直接興建社會住宅那但是因為有這方面的調整那我想我們在調整的當中呢就是一樣希望中央政府跟地方政府大家一起來努力"},{"start":193.373,"end":220.262,"text":"好 謝謝部長所以剛剛您講的就正式應驗當時賴清德的13萬戶的社會住宅會下降成4萬多戶其實本席要在這邊講政府的政策不是不能調整可是對青年的保障跟所需要的人當時的承諾不能打折當時過去行政院明明也盤點了260處大概有多少萬戶的社會住宅的用地可是現在這個部長一句話就說這個覺得好像"},{"start":221.445,"end":243.172,"text":"土地太貴成效不足要來退回所以我覺得這有一點讓我本席相信我本身是支持社會住宅的可是這樣子的話是不是會您的講法會不會犧牲年輕人的居住正義那本席這邊還是要再次強調就像今天的報告裡面你們寫的就像剛剛部長所講的其實是讓我本席覺得是一種話術"},{"start":244.432,"end":261.982,"text":"因為在這個報告裡面你們講的預計的社會住宅的目標是100萬戶啊在第一頁裡面寫的100萬戶啊就算依照剛剛這個部長裡面講的依照住宅法第19條的規定啊你現在所興建的社會住宅大概12萬戶加上包租代管的大概10萬戶也是22萬戶啊"},{"start":263.723,"end":286.46,"text":"要達到一百萬戶根本就本席而言根本這個目標就太長遠就天方夜譚所以我是不是再請部長稍微委員您的算法有錯了你解釋一下現在社會住宅的數量新建的是不是十二萬戶包住斷款是不是十二萬戶你在報告第一頁寫說預計一百萬戶這就是一個很明顯的美化的數字那我想要請教部長"},{"start":287.02,"end":306.072,"text":"如何從20萬戶到達你的100萬戶的社會住宅報告委員這不是美化的數字我跟委員報告就是說在行政院所通過的百萬戶租屋家庭支持計畫裡面沒有你寫的是100萬戶的社會住宅啊這第一萬以100萬為目標啊百萬戶的租屋家庭的計畫我們的目標從來沒有改變過是三軌並進"},{"start":307.427,"end":320.807,"text":"所以我要跟部長講這就是你的話術啦不是話術每一個目標你現在社會住宅新建而且是非常務實的政治人物啊尤其總統在總統的報告是新建不是新辦啦就是要"},{"start":321.297,"end":342.834,"text":"花政府的錢蓋的是政府的房子啊可是你現在不管是你新建的12萬戶加上包租貸款的12萬才22萬戶你這裡美化說要100萬戶中間還差了那麼多的數字那我了解你的想法就是未來想要把租金補貼或甚至一些空的房子把它加入包租貸款裡面可是你的目標其實也沒辦法到達"},{"start":343.675,"end":364.908,"text":"其實我記得你的目標大概是25萬戶你要達到100萬戶喔 其實也是不可能喔所以我還是希望說這個數字 百萬戶的租屋家庭計畫是三軌並進我知道 可是我們在講的是社會住宅一道住宅法第19條的社會住宅好 所以我還是要跟這個部長講就是說年輕人的未來跟有需要的人的需要還是要拜託賴總統這邊喔"},{"start":367.39,"end":391.031,"text":"這個還是要來關心他們所的需求那第二個我要請教部長就是之前在去年的11月我這邊的質詢的時候一直請教您就是有關於這個內政部預告的建築物設置太陽能光電板設置的一個標準就是未來在新建增建或改建建築面積達1000平方公尺以上的建築物要強制設太陽光電"},{"start":392.272,"end":408.47,"text":"當時我在講的時候我就覺得這個法一定要多加檢討而且當時你在質詢的時候你也承諾說這個要再檢討也不會那麼快上落可是我們看到現在這個法案這個辦法已經公告上去了所以距離上次質詢已經兩個多月了請問部長你們"},{"start":411.733,"end":420.882,"text":"後續跟經濟部開了幾次會為什麼當你都不同意了這個方案為什麼還要這麼急的公告上次您在質詢的時候我有跟您講說我們會檢討請問檢討了幾次我們檢討就是我們請我們的國土署跟經濟部負責的這個"},{"start":430.572,"end":453.697,"text":"有沒有檢討有沒有書面的會議資料有八次的會議我是不是可以請那個戴署長跟你回應一下那你聽我講完一下齁那我們檢討以後呢這個標準已經針對有消防公安跟維管三個部分的做充分考量而且呢我們在12月19號公佈出去的時候呢是跟經濟部一起共同公佈出去的好 那請那個有沒有要解釋"},{"start":455.455,"end":467.422,"text":"是報告委員我是114年質詢我們內政部長請問你們開那8次會議是幾年開的我們在去年還是甚至前年都有開是113年開的8次會議沒有沒有就陸陸續續一直開我拿到了8次會議的紀錄是113年的我這質詢是114年沒有跟部長報告錯誤啊114有開會開會是在113年"},{"start":484.412,"end":509.113,"text":"因為我們持續在檢討你們有沒有跟部長報告錯誤那如果你們如果真的沒有認真開會的話你們是不是要針對這個辦法是不是還要再繼續檢討針對所有的消防安全以及後續的維護應該要再檢討部長你有沒有聽到這個沒有開會就把這個辦法草草的公佈有開會報告委員您剛在上次在質詢的時候是特別提到您特別提到是消防的部分"},{"start":511.795,"end":522.098,"text":"您特別提到消防的部分我也請教過消防署針對這個部分要提供他們的見解所以我們針對這個部分跟委員報告是114年12月19的時候我們跟惠童經濟部已經發布出去好再來我要請教現在要抱怨有一個實務的問題大家都知道北市科輝達要來設總部要做這個新建3.0"},{"start":534.201,"end":560.319,"text":"他的屋頂是科技感的摺疊設計恐怕很難符合現在內政部所要需的設的光電板所以我要是不是請教部長市政府現在要協助揮打我們台灣可能第二個護國神山他是不是現在這個屋頂的這個是不是要送給內政部跟經濟部來做審查你們會不會因為他的設計沒有辦法裝光電板而去否築他的建築設計有沒有一些現在可以具體的回應"},{"start":561.22,"end":573.916,"text":"報告委員 這個部分我們會再來跟台北市政府來共同找到一個比較好的方式因為我們都知道輝達的新建案台北市政府在內政部地政司的協助之下也是如火如荼的展開當中"},{"start":578.542,"end":589.996,"text":"那這個部分呢根據第六條裡面的一個這個規範呢我覺得我們可以跟台北市政府一起來協調那到底他們碰到什麼樣子的困難那如果可以協調出共識的話我想會幫助輝達在取得土地然後蓋總部的時候呢會能夠如期如質的達成"},{"start":596.668,"end":612.893,"text":"最後我要拜託部長就是不管是社宅的興建或是光電板的設置回答是我們台灣可能是第二個護國神山一定要多多來幫忙那我想要請教就是這個台北市政府未來相信有很多像這樣子的案子所以這光電板的設置"},{"start":615.195,"end":632.151,"text":"我這邊有個新聞稿經濟部說的發電量我要跟大家公布一個數字全台灣一年可能會因為這個光電板在屋頂設置上一年要增加一百多萬片的光電板所以我還是要拜託這個部長跟經濟部要多溝通要審慎來考量 謝謝"},{"start":633.232,"end":650.223,"text":"是 我剛跟委員報告了也是根據我們公布出去的這個發電設備標準來講的第六條就是您剛所提到有跟回答的部分所以其實是有解方並不是沒有解方有解方 那我還是要講那部長那個未來這個條例標準還是要再審慎思考 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167149","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167149","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851ad55d9bf5eba58eac02888e1e08ec371f6512ba5efdfd30a2cb1202a763c6df65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"10:19:37 - 10:36:49","影片長度":"00:17:12","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:19:37+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:36:49+08:00","duration":1032,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.379718750000002,"end":10.662218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.25284375,"end":12.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.927218750000002,"end":19.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18.812843750000003,"end":19.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.05721875,"end":21.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.187843750000003,"end":23.774093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.887843750000002,"end":41.408468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":42.74159375,"end":69.94409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":70.46721875,"end":71.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.55971875,"end":75.37784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.00221875000001,"end":96.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.29846875000001,"end":99.61034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.04909375000001,"end":127.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.34846875,"end":135.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.38096875000002,"end":144.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.51471875000001,"end":145.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":144.61596875,"end":146.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.86034375,"end":146.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.97846875000002,"end":167.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.98096875000002,"end":160.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":161.89596875,"end":164.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":166.75596875000002,"end":219.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":220.13159375,"end":236.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.36096875,"end":284.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":286.21409375,"end":292.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.64346875,"end":294.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.73159375,"end":321.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.17909375,"end":349.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.69784375,"end":357.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.13971875000004,"end":360.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.51471875000004,"end":369.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":369.03659375,"end":432.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.72346875000005,"end":375.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.87096875000003,"end":375.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":432.97596875000005,"end":451.53846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.97721875,"end":478.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":464.68409375000005,"end":464.93721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":467.16471875,"end":470.42159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.91846875000005,"end":478.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.47096875000005,"end":483.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":481.30596875000003,"end":481.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":482.77409375,"end":501.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.09596875000005,"end":505.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":505.03221875,"end":510.43221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.65659375,"end":506.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.09471875,"end":511.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":511.95096875,"end":511.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":511.96784375000004,"end":512.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":512.03534375,"end":512.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.45721875,"end":512.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":512.55846875,"end":512.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.57534375,"end":512.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":512.6259687500001,"end":512.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.96346875,"end":513.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":513.03096875,"end":531.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":531.72846875,"end":535.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.8715937500001,"end":545.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":540.1997187500001,"end":542.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":543.37221875,"end":543.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.9709687500001,"end":551.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.6240937499999,"end":552.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":552.0290937500001,"end":561.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.1459687500001,"end":569.3428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":567.9084687500001,"end":577.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":577.93221875,"end":598.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.12346875,"end":597.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.9922187500001,"end":610.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.1272187500001,"end":599.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.31284375,"end":599.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.5322187500001,"end":599.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":609.3872187500001,"end":617.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.9765937500001,"end":622.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.1909687500001,"end":626.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":626.02596875,"end":645.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.7703437499999,"end":652.5534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.13221875,"end":648.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":651.50721875,"end":668.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.65221875,"end":674.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":674.42346875,"end":684.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":684.71721875,"end":695.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":695.97284375,"end":696.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.8372187500001,"end":715.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":714.5522187500001,"end":717.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.19721875,"end":719.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":719.3615937500001,"end":720.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":720.84659375,"end":722.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":724.35659375,"end":727.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":727.1240937500002,"end":728.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.17034375,"end":728.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.8959687500001,"end":732.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":728.96346875,"end":728.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":731.1740937500001,"end":732.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":732.8447187500001,"end":732.9797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":733.63784375,"end":733.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":733.65471875,"end":734.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":734.5490937500001,"end":734.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":734.5659687500001,"end":734.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":734.65034375,"end":734.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":734.6672187500001,"end":751.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":754.0734687500001,"end":756.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":756.97596875,"end":759.8447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":758.68034375,"end":768.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":762.6965937500001,"end":765.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":769.05846875,"end":773.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":774.12096875,"end":783.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":782.59221875,"end":800.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":800.32784375,"end":814.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":815.02596875,"end":817.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":818.28284375,"end":818.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":819.16034375,"end":819.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":820.0715937500001,"end":821.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":821.77596875,"end":843.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":843.03846875,"end":850.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":850.8347187500001,"end":853.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":854.2434687500001,"end":861.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":862.6303437500001,"end":877.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":877.4297187500001,"end":877.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":877.4465937500001,"end":877.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":877.51409375,"end":877.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":877.6828437500001,"end":877.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":877.75034375,"end":877.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":877.8347187500001,"end":878.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":880.02846875,"end":882.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":883.69034375,"end":884.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":885.3272187500002,"end":887.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":887.75721875,"end":901.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":902.1684687500001,"end":908.3953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":905.2734687500001,"end":905.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":908.54721875,"end":911.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":911.0278437500001,"end":933.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":933.74159375,"end":933.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":933.9778437500001,"end":944.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":945.28409375,"end":971.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":945.97596875,"end":946.9040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":947.4778437500001,"end":949.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":972.7734687500001,"end":975.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":975.38909375,"end":978.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":978.03846875,"end":978.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":979.16909375,"end":984.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":984.50159375,"end":1003.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1003.9922187500001,"end":1007.5359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1007.5359687500002,"end":1007.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1007.68784375,"end":1007.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1007.7890937500001,"end":1007.9578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1007.9578437500002,"end":1007.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1007.97471875,"end":1023.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1024.1409687500002,"end":1028.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1029.54096875,"end":1031.4815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1031.65034375,"end":1031.97096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.805,"end":23.173,"text":"謝謝召委 有請部長好 有請部長等一下水杯就直接拿到部長的講台上面好 部長好 部長好久不見"},{"start":24.98,"end":41.181,"text":"學校午餐牽涉到學生的健康教育公平跟社會照顧是最基本最有共識的一個政策之一目前全台灣超過一半的縣市宣布實施國中小營養午餐免費我想這個你應該都有所了解"},{"start":43.079,"end":71.432,"text":"台南市也相繼的宣布要在115學年度前全部的實施形成一個明顯的政策趨勢也因為如此校園午餐不再只是弱勢的補助還有部分的負擔這樣的議題而是攸關全國教育公平財政永續的重大政策請問部長您怎麼看現在各縣市陸續宣布國中小營養午餐免費的一個政策"},{"start":72.605,"end":95.022,"text":"我覺得這剛好是符合這個地方知識法裡面那是屬於地方的一個權責那地方能夠勇於承擔我覺得這不是壞事因為如果由中央統一來做事實上委員可能也知道在民國99年當時這個政府希望用特別預算來這個"},{"start":97.409,"end":123.267,"text":"全國統一的免費營養午餐事實上就被監察院糾正這個是不宜的他應該從使用者互惠但是我們的法令屬於這個地方的前線我想我們尊重地方勇於承擔來照顧我們新世代的這些中小學生的營養健康我覺得這是一個好事"},{"start":123.587,"end":146.611,"text":"那你認為免費會不會就讓品質下降呢我想不必然就是說地方政府我相信他會納為免費一定有他整體的一個地方縣市地方的一個城市發展包括對新世代小孩子的一些照顧但是教育部也有責任也就是說好 謝謝這句話很重要"},{"start":147.131,"end":158.667,"text":"教育部有責任我們在這一個怎麼樣確保學童的食的安全 食的健康就像我們過去由中央來協助地方三張EQ這一個部分我想我們包含未來的這個品質的整合機制"},{"start":163.573,"end":181.511,"text":"我們都會來前面的來這個我想投資學生的營養視為教育投資的一個一環這個不是單純的社會福利那不要只是說尊重地方自治卻沒有進一步的制度性支持當然你們有三張EQ我知道"},{"start":182.552,"end":206.577,"text":"那我想这个将出现孩子的营养午餐呢是否免费取决于出生于哪个县市遇到哪一任首长的严重教育不平等在基本教育权的一个角度呢我想教育部要扮演的角色也是很重要的那我想现在要讲的是学生午餐费系属于代收代办费也诚如今天报告所写的"},{"start":206.997,"end":235.356,"text":"中央推学校营养午餐的政策是为了缩短城乡的一个差距照顾弱势的学生协助地方建立公餐的体系政策精神是补不足建制度但当今天各个县市纷纷推动学校营养午餐免费的一个政策的时候教育部是不是有考虑到如何支持考虑全国统一免费这个是我们想进一步来探讨的"},{"start":237.677,"end":261.382,"text":"這個是地方自治那我們地方應該用地方自己的一個角度去承擔但是免費不應該是最低的標準部長當餐費一旦被固定物價一旦上漲第一個被壓縮就是菜色這是我們擔心的還有品質跟營養我相信每位縣市首長不希望看到孩子吃的是免費但是清淡但是單調甚至是營養不足的營養午餐"},{"start":262.342,"end":282.829,"text":"營養午餐對於學生來說可能是一天三餐中最均衡最重要的一餐因此想請教一下部長教育部目前是否有評估在各縣市自行負擔免費營養午餐的情況下如何避免財政的壓力反而影響午餐它的品質以及多樣性簡單來問"},{"start":286.277,"end":312.091,"text":"教育部有沒有評估是否應該承擔一個基本的比例或者是基本的額度而不是全部都丟給地方來承擔我想地方縣市政府因為他是地方自治的前線嘛他會宣布這個免費提供營養午餐我相信他也同時會把這個對學童的這個吃的營養 吃的健康 吃的安全這些等等的因素考量"},{"start":313.111,"end":329.125,"text":"納進去成為他的一個政策推動的一個考量那所以我從來不擔心他們會用一個所謂的便宜的一個營養午餐或者吃的不營養不健康的一個午餐的提供那教育部這一個部分"},{"start":329.545,"end":342.171,"text":"我想包含委員剛才所關心的怎麼樣個每一餐的菜色裡邊它所包含的營養的機制我們有一些學者專家我們有建立專業的一些輔導的機制包含我們有食材的一個"},{"start":350.196,"end":364.633,"text":"登陆平台确保三张EQ这些等等的机制我们都有的有要跟地方来共同讨论我们怎么样去确保地方在推动营养午餐的许多的品质这个机制我们大概"},{"start":365.874,"end":385.847,"text":"每年至少我們還是會有一個資訊的揭露部長我知道我相信三張EQ你會繼續做啦那我還是希望能夠給予更大力度的幫助不是要求你來幫忙他們免費而是更大力度的幫助不管是營養午餐更有品質或者是更加好吃"},{"start":386.847,"end":410.218,"text":"這個是教育部可以幫忙協助的加入這一場營養午餐的行列不是要求你只是出錢給予免費制度上的幫忙也是很重要的一個部分回到核心的一句話地方政府願意投資孩子的營養午餐中央政府應該要加強幫助把營養午餐做得更好吃更營養而不是勉強的"},{"start":411.519,"end":432.024,"text":"看到這些地方營養午餐免費而已希望教育部能夠思考怎麼樣能夠成為地方政府的後盾今天我們回到整個書面報告學校衛生法第16條要求健康飲食教育12年國教各領域課綱也納入了飲食教育的一個內容並嚴定了高中以下"},{"start":433.058,"end":433.638,"text":"這個部分呢"},{"start":452.043,"end":461.692,"text":"我想對老師的真人包含這個營養師包含儲物工的公共衛生等等這些教育部我們想我們一定都會跟這個地方繼續持續來合作怎麼樣讓他們更專業更專業之外嘛"},{"start":468.638,"end":488.597,"text":"我們也有一些科技上譬如說用AI來開菜單確保這些菜的一些食材的內容有一個技術的一個品質我想我們一定會確保這個品質中央跟地方一定是合作剛剛講到這個營養午餐就是不拖午餐祕書那再來還有一個出工的問題"},{"start":489.238,"end":508.115,"text":"但是我要這個部分我要發聲啊不要要馬而好不要馬而吃草現行大多都是由教師去承擔營養午餐祕書的工作長久以來國中小兼任午餐祕書幾乎都是在做功德他事實上不一定有老師啊他看不同的大小規模有啦有啦我還有看過校長啊做午餐祕書啦"},{"start":509.316,"end":531.089,"text":"这个我们都知道校长他有专业他愿意这一个勇于承担校长都说被迫做功德我们不要骗了当然他如果有专业我们是乐观其成但午餐秘书的这个行政工作但是却没有工作加急午餐专法还没有完成之前有些担任午餐秘书的老师能不能给予他们行政加急"},{"start":531.869,"end":536.291,"text":"之前我就請教過部長這個問題啊部長可不可以給我一個回應以現在來講它事實上是這個減少授課時數嘛授課時數看起來不夠嘛所以有限時在提出多增加授課時數減少嘛願意把它這個這個設為這個堅持"},{"start":550.876,"end":579.989,"text":"那地方願意來給予一些工作中央願不願意幫忙我們先不要問地方嘛午餐秘書的加級就是零嘛除工部分的照顧也沒有兼顧到嘛未來的地方肯定會有更多這個勇於承擔在這些那哪時候換部長您承擔哪時候換中央政府承擔去年12月31公布的行政獎金提高1000到2000元有沒有包括行政秘書沒有嘛"},{"start":580.569,"end":595.279,"text":"那那個時候我們看到教育部要承擔啊可是教育部有跟地方開會啊一人無私無私好沒關係至少有進步了嘛那中央願意帶頭來承擔要求地方一起來承擔什麼時候我可以看到部長"},{"start":595.999,"end":622.637,"text":"行政加緊的部分中央來承擔我們對老師的一個關照我們也看到有些地方縣市已經在加碼了教育部所定的是一個基本的一個門檻但是地方縣市今天我看到您的回應就是由地方加油地方承擔看到等到教育部一定是跟地方一起合作的"},{"start":623.297,"end":638.232,"text":"我想這個態度是很清楚的我想這個部分如果教育部願意帶頭就像這一次行政獎金提高一千到兩千你再來跟地方來說我們來五十五十六十四十這個都是好的開場嘛這也是一種合作啊"},{"start":638.872,"end":667.691,"text":"並不是你在跟地方來對抗啊所以我還是要幫不管午餐祕書或者是廚工來幫忙我們可以來來努力啦可以嗎中央跟地方絕對不是對抗的一定是合作的我另外跟你說上次這個行政獎金提高說有通知地方要跟地方一起共同研議五十五十我收到的資訊啊地方說他們根本沒有說要承擔這50%他們開會都是被要求被通知那這個部分"},{"start":668.852,"end":694.424,"text":"他們的說法啦當然我是說我還是回到剛剛說的您願意帶頭好事好事謝謝但是我希望能不能這個部分午餐祕書還有我一直在追蹤的課後照顧寒暑假學藝活動終點費他也有被整個被沒有注意到啊所以上一次我在講的時候張亮萬間次長也說他們要做整體評估兩週了請問評估的整體狀況如何"},{"start":699.986,"end":721.928,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個部分會是比較牽涉是使用者付費包括就是課後輔導這個部分還有這個部分我們會再跟相關的主管機關還有跟家長團體什麼時候可以給我答案已經兩週囉我們會盡快一個月內可以嗎部長一個月內可以嗎"},{"start":725.081,"end":751.625,"text":"會牽涉到 就是跟相關的我知道 所以你一個月給你溝通嘛好 我們一個月之內我們會開一個月喔 部長我們來努力啦我們來努力啦我想這個部分真的我們希望啦 大家要來努力再來剛剛拍板定案的校事會議的一個新制啊包括三族匿名檢舉 建立案件分流機制新增輔佐人參與機制各界都有一些不滿意的聲音 你知道嗎"},{"start":755.273,"end":772.698,"text":"應該說民主法治的社會一定任何一個法令不可能滿足所有的人都不太可能百分百滿意但是這一次全教授也說這次的修法明顯惡意的濫訴沒有防堵機制啊所以全教授他們也在說啊修法版本太人質"},{"start":774.398,"end":799.684,"text":"這個部分部長要不要回應一下部長 全教總還要有可能走上街頭您可不可以親自的去接他們的陳情書來回應他們我剛才講的跟我們報告民主法治的社會我尊重他們表達他們的希望他們的想法我想我予以尊重但是所有今天的分流包括這個減少停止爛訴等等的這些措施包括"},{"start":800.504,"end":817.664,"text":"这一个老师是不是如果有被指控的老师也有这一个协助的人的角色等等的许多都是来自于教师团体他们的诉求我想所有的法令的修正很难一次到位但是至少那个方向"},{"start":818.365,"end":832.953,"text":"我們再努力我想這一次的修法許多的意見是來自於那當然我也理解教室會最終底他希望校室會議整個不要設立那當然他有他的一定的這個時空背景"},{"start":833.473,"end":861.379,"text":"另外就所有被指控被冤枉的人他的這個到最後的名譽恢復包括他的待遇是不是能夠恢復這個確實我們在努力所以部長最近我近期我提出教師法第25條教師待遇條例第19條的修法版本主要是針對教師停聘後經濟程序一個或恢復聘任的時候停聘期間各項待遇的補發範圍現行警民定本心"},{"start":862.691,"end":877.305,"text":"沒有考核獎金、年終獎金、職務加給、學術研究加給以及地域加給其他構成教師報酬的重要項目這些獎金及加給也都是教師待遇的一環所以我主張一起補發部長您覺得呢"},{"start":880.06,"end":908.007,"text":"我的立場很清楚但是因為我們現在的法令確實是公教有許多相關的規定是綁在一起的也就是說將心比心一個被冤枉怎麼樣去恢復他的名義他的該有的一些待遇權益也應該給予恢復這樣的一個方向我自始至終是持這樣的想法所以你認同我剛剛提出的我想我們很多的委員都有這樣共通的想法"},{"start":908.667,"end":932.777,"text":"我是跟大家的想法是一致的好 謝謝 這很重要我想我們都不希望被冤枉但是他受到了整個申訴的過程終於還清他的一個清白能夠拿到他應有的一個權益這個我們大家一起來回復維護他們的權益但是也請你能夠多看看最近全教總他們說的他們擔心小案大辦"},{"start":933.777,"end":954.526,"text":"当然我们希望有这样子的申诉机制持平和论我是完全无法理解我们当然法令上我们希望半年后我们再收集这个新的办法这个实际实施但是我们怕这半年内又有更多的受害者我必须要讲如果没有改变所有的老师继续被滥诉或者被这个小案大办"},{"start":955.106,"end":971.052,"text":"如果我們不給一些時間我們完全無法了解這一個法令修改上的一個好處然後現在就指控還繼續這個小案大辦然後說我們這一個指評論這個是我沒有辦法接受的我們花了一年的一個時間"},{"start":972.85,"end":993.949,"text":"在聽地方基層的一個聲音結果還用這樣來指控這我沒有辦法接受我想你有你的一個責任跟你在這一年的付出我可以尊重但是我也希望憑心而論全教展他們在講的時候全教總在講的時候他們也不是沒有來由或是沒有理由"},{"start":994.209,"end":1023.612,"text":"大家都好好的坐下來把所有的意見再次的整合是不是能夠再提出一些更好的版本就像你說的沒辦法一步到位我承認但是你不能夠忽視掉這些聲音好不好民主法治的社會我完全同意一定會有不同的聲音我也常常用這個提醒我自己怎麼樣在大多數人的一個這個能夠權益保障但同時也兼顧到少數人的一個聲音包含權益這我想"},{"start":1024.593,"end":1028.259,"text":"這個基本的態度我是有的所以我們會繼續努力好 謝謝好 謝謝羅定位衛委員"}]}},{"id":"167148","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167148","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851189e87a8a7b5d908e1f8a6d37bdd8b89f6512ba5efdfd30a0853a9f02a015eae5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇清泉","委員發言時間":"10:21:42 - 10:33:38","影片長度":"00:11:56","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:21:42+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:33:38+08:00","duration":716,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.19471875,"end":7.9790937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.797218750000003,"end":13.480343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.99534375,"end":13.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.73346875,"end":14.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.31471875,"end":21.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.32284375,"end":26.457218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.91284375,"end":30.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.367843750000002,"end":35.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.93659375,"end":39.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.518468750000004,"end":40.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.868468750000005,"end":41.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.032843750000005,"end":44.564093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.05784375,"end":48.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.27659375,"end":50.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.41159375,"end":48.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.21721875,"end":50.892218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.892218750000005,"end":54.672218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.56721875,"end":51.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.75659375,"end":64.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.790343750000005,"end":55.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.47659375,"end":66.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.68721875,"end":73.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.07846875,"end":79.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.96784375,"end":85.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.11096875000001,"end":82.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.10659375,"end":83.20784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.91659375,"end":87.84846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.81909375000001,"end":89.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.15596875,"end":99.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.01534375,"end":104.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.53784375000001,"end":106.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.77784375,"end":110.83221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.98409375000001,"end":113.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.36346875000001,"end":116.48534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.87346875,"end":128.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.53409375,"end":133.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.01846875,"end":145.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.92409375,"end":144.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.32471875000002,"end":166.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.26659375,"end":186.17909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.55034375000002,"end":190.34721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.76909375000002,"end":197.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.46846875,"end":198.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.90284375000002,"end":237.14159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.93659375000001,"end":199.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.47909375,"end":249.91596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.31284375,"end":249.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.16909375,"end":253.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.15596875000003,"end":255.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.46346875,"end":258.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.75846875,"end":261.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.66096875,"end":262.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.90971875,"end":271.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.24159375,"end":274.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.65034375,"end":282.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.07971875000004,"end":283.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.28221875,"end":294.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.07346875,"end":316.99409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.81534375,"end":299.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.83221875000004,"end":300.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.52409375,"end":300.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.87159375000005,"end":334.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.37534375,"end":371.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.23034375000003,"end":345.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.88846875,"end":382.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.51971875000004,"end":387.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.25721875000005,"end":388.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.64534375000005,"end":397.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.53096875,"end":394.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.39096875,"end":398.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.11221875,"end":398.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.29784375,"end":398.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.50034375,"end":403.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.58409375,"end":403.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.76534375,"end":407.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.55409375000005,"end":435.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.26659375,"end":452.28096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.31721875000005,"end":437.51534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.41596875000005,"end":454.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.94721875000005,"end":461.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.44409375000004,"end":475.06221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.93346875000003,"end":462.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.34534375000004,"end":473.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.43784375,"end":481.91346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.77034375000005,"end":480.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.67721875,"end":482.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.36909375000005,"end":490.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.07659375000003,"end":494.43471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.67096875000004,"end":495.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.66659375,"end":495.73409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.73409375000006,"end":499.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.81846875,"end":497.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.78409375,"end":521.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.9072187500001,"end":531.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.7709687500001,"end":555.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.40659375,"end":540.0647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.3872187500001,"end":569.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.97721875,"end":560.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.7309687500001,"end":573.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.07659375,"end":572.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.6840937500001,"end":574.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.5403437500001,"end":581.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.43784375,"end":586.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.0278437500001,"end":590.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.5715937500001,"end":591.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.61784375,"end":593.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.54159375,"end":593.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.6259687500001,"end":594.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.6597187500001,"end":595.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.0559687500001,"end":600.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.5065937500001,"end":602.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.2234687499999,"end":613.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.56846875,"end":611.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.11659375,"end":627.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.8528437500001,"end":629.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.56971875,"end":637.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.53159375,"end":631.3584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.1684687500001,"end":632.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.0915937500001,"end":653.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.4965937500001,"end":639.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.2790937500001,"end":666.2390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.6103437500001,"end":669.1584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.80409375,"end":668.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.9897187500001,"end":691.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.2434687500001,"end":698.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":697.8628437500001,"end":698.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.08221875,"end":702.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.14096875,"end":700.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.4865937500001,"end":713.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.85784375,"end":705.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.6497187500001,"end":711.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.97034375,"end":712.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.8940937500001,"end":714.1472187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.742,"end":30.076,"text":"謝謝我們主席 尊敬的縣長次長來 請次長江署長江署長我也好次長辛苦了來 我先問一個問題我們現在台灣一年的藥費就包括健保給付的"},{"start":31.482,"end":40.558,"text":"我們說2800億左右是有沒有包括OTC的藥有一部分 如果是健保給付的話那健康食品沒有"},{"start":42.079,"end":65.484,"text":"那健康食品一年有多少規模那規模幾乎比藥品還多保健相關1500億保健相關應該是1500億以上1500億對 健康食品少但保健相關的食品我們目前努力在全面希望能夠進入納管然後以及對於它的廣告以及各項的所謂的潛在的可行的功效等等我們會目前持續在規劃當中"},{"start":66.884,"end":86.9,"text":"所以現在的藥品規模如果包括健保醫療用的加上OTC的加上保健食品的那這樣一年應該要有4000多億差不多吧 多少你也不知道食藥署長你搞不清楚啊應該要問一下經濟部的同仁一下經濟部都亂講"},{"start":91.326,"end":114.697,"text":"現在美國的保健食品機關稅要歸零現在看起來是要歸零那些魚油什麼的全部都大陸進來了我們現在健保要一年2800億左右那真的台灣生產的我記得市長才1200億喔"},{"start":116.926,"end":133.155,"text":"我們自己國內的藥品事實上它品項是多但是它其實因為都比較是屬於不是非常昂貴的藥品所以它的健保給付或者是相關的這個規模來講是比較少一點所以你現在修改藥是你的目的就是"},{"start":134.136,"end":155.074,"text":"讓我們這裡的學民藥Generic的友情讓他保護要做原料藥也要保護讓我們台灣有韌性醫療你們今天目的是要這樣嗎今天這是確定就是說在某些緊急狀況之下後藥品缺乏的時候我們那個供應韌性要能夠穩定那另外還有一個計畫也希望大院可以支持就是我們的藥品韌性計畫"},{"start":156.075,"end":171.52,"text":"那保温就是針對國產藥品國產原料藥那我們去輔導有些藥品讓它盡量逐漸的走向自己國產自己做不用依靠進口藥品那這是當然是我們的理想你知道我們這個國產的學名藥或者國產藥廠我是覺得他們很可憐"},{"start":177.089,"end":196.054,"text":"三百幾斤然後產值那麼低然後一天到晚要告我看最近就有八十幾件國外原廠來告台灣的侵害專利你們食藥署是在輔導還是保護你們有盡到責任嗎"},{"start":197.694,"end":213.942,"text":"還是報告去試報告委員就說這個部分其實特別提到所謂的專利侵害的一些訴訟的我們有看到有八十件那這些高的藥費其實很多都是原來是原廠的原廠用很多很多的方式去"},{"start":215.263,"end":232.977,"text":"審核延長 一直延長它的專利所以我們其實在這個過程中我們前一陣子也跟特別有提到跟智慧財產局我們必須食藥署跟智慧財產局去協作把這件事能夠釐清透過我們的所謂的專利能夠揭露之後讓上市前的專利釐清"},{"start":234.238,"end":254.549,"text":"那也避免說是很漫長的所以我們做了一件事情叫做依法暫停12個月釐清專利的爭議能夠比照國際跟其他國家的專利連結的制度這個12個月呢讓他專利挑戰跟迴避成功的首名學家學名藥文再給他鼓勵因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在 因為現在"},{"start":262.972,"end":270.898,"text":"那個靠心 蓋立族阻斷制跟這樣截止掉 革社會就必須再一個新的再保護12年 15年我們經濟不好 不能做什麼事情"},{"start":276.187,"end":294.142,"text":"沒有三針刺 這樣就過了15年因為我們這裡有錢也沒有機會啊它沒有新的藥它就兩三種藥併在一起現在有三種藥 利尿劑也併進去兩三種藥併成一個又一個新的藥又出來又是給你申請專利又是10年 又是12年 又是15年"},{"start":295.123,"end":316.555,"text":"所以針對這一點我們其實我們有看到問題啦所以我們有看到問題你們解決啦有有有我們同時呢把這件事情跟經濟部這邊的我們智慧產產局這邊能夠做對接這件事情呢其實為了整體藥物的韌性以對國內能夠充滿他人的支持之後藥物韌性下來那所以裡面呢我們持續在做當中"},{"start":317.896,"end":322.522,"text":"保護 保護不好聽啦扶植我們的國產藥廠讓他們能夠這樣三八幾天看能不能直接從八八天安得好啊有藥症就不要生產生產就大家都死嘛大家都產殖一點點啊 市長"},{"start":334.698,"end":360.764,"text":"我們盡量調整可是報告委員我們也希望說至少要有幾家藥廠都有在生產某一個藥品或者是幾家藥廠都有能力生產某一種藥品這樣一旦某一家藥廠出問題我們可以協調其他藥廠來供應製造再來也跟委員報告就是說有些已經過專利期很久的其實有些已經過專利期很久的我們自己國產的藥廠是有能力生產的因為它已經沒有專利的問題了可是過去沒有相關的誘因它大家都全部依賴進口"},{"start":361.764,"end":378.635,"text":"所以我們現在就我們剛剛講那個藥品韌性計畫就是希望我們把它盤點之後來協助有國家的力量經濟部有一部分的預算一百二十億在那邊要來協助這些藥廠自己生產還有還有我們前一陣子我們署長發下豪語說要讓我們這個國產抗癌藥 標靶藥讓他們可以給我們扶持說讓他們可以視戰力比較高的現在是怎麼樣 我看沒什麼成績"},{"start":388.767,"end":403.348,"text":"我这个部分的第一个叫生物相似用药生物相似用药生物相似的用药那以及在国内的药品癌症的药品我们也持续有在支持他们有嘛有增加吧"},{"start":403.929,"end":415.017,"text":"對 我們持續在審查的速度就是輔導上面太多我看你現在修藥治法你今天在那裡你叫人家定期申報本來就是申請至現在 以前叫做報備現在就要申請申請現在生產端跟使用端是醫院嘛醫院用藥的自由度很高啊醫師大家都很聰明啊用他想用的 現在"},{"start":427.185,"end":451.585,"text":"申報 說你強制申報 一個月兩個月一劑等等那你現在說申報 那個價量一定會不符啊他們那個固定通報是說假設半年內他有斷藥的問題 他要讓我們知道那有些甚至依賴量很大的 他要提早讓我們曉得這樣我們才有辦法去協調其他的藥廠趕快供應或者是說我們有什麼方式來協助整個市場能夠變得更穩定"},{"start":452.495,"end":463.898,"text":"所以你們要喊的就是說這個議案有兩三間在做也有一間出問題就先點電梯給我其他人可以對 因為我們的郵箱有這個領域郵箱有領域過去沒被人看見所以現在希望我們不論是這次修法事實上是來強備完備他的法源另外那個藥品任性就是來做經濟上的用意他申報你又要給他罰則我是覺得一開始是要輔導啦"},{"start":479.361,"end":498.954,"text":"你賣情婦就發脾氣要怕死人有錢要給我扣錢的啊我沒有針對哪一家但是我覺得我們國產大家都慘淡輕盈那進口進來的天災地變啊颱風等等或是打仗啊等等給我當那是很嚴重的事情不可抗力因素我們是不會去做懲罰的"},{"start":500.396,"end":521.077,"text":"對 就是說有時候顏料最後一個就顏料要進來有時候顏料要進不來所以我們台灣自己開發顏料我了解的好幾家做顏料的藥廠他們做出來的顏料成本太高所以反而都是銷到美國去然後我們再去印度買買那個顏料比較便宜的"},{"start":521.974,"end":538.449,"text":"那我昨天發現我去查日本的Denonica的藥它的原料都從印度跟中國進這是很可怕的事情耶全世界大概60%都是從中國跟印度進口所以我們各國也都在希望能夠強化自己國家的藥品韌性"},{"start":539.17,"end":556.888,"text":"然後我們自己原廠藥這邊我們自己健保我們正在討論就是說我們要有一些鼓勵的機制因為我們過去是我們如果是使用本土的藥我們會有一些脊腑上面的誘因嘛那如果說這個藥廠用自己的本土藥品他又用我們自己本土的原料藥我們現在原料藥我們現在正在規劃這邊能夠所以你原料藥的鼓勵是一個"},{"start":557.689,"end":574.174,"text":"那自己藥廠做Generic的藥你也要有鼓勵這健保就要把他寬鬆一下健保局有這個想法嗎還是健保局都想要把他伺候死這樣那不可以這樣進去市長 你在管的所以這邊都共同來處理他們愛這樣好 最後一個問題因為我時間超過了謝謝主席讓我多講30秒"},{"start":582.523,"end":601.836,"text":"我們現在在做疫苗 孩子做疫苗是有一個疫苗基金嘛小孩子可以打我們的公費疫苗有疫苗基金啊沒有啊 如果大人的大人的就歸到要害基金去了是不是疫苗這邊"},{"start":604.264,"end":622.257,"text":"疫苗受害是疫苗的話疫苗有另外的疫苗他另外有一個他的那個那個不良反應的基金要害救濟是另外這邊我們有兩個上次COVID-19那些人有的都去申請有的我之前COVID-19住在家住住的產生問題很多很多很多"},{"start":623.658,"end":652.937,"text":"然後這些他們其實好像是藥癌基金在審那是疫苗基金疫苗那邊是疫苗基金嗎那為什麼對小孩子的補償是那麼的寬鬆對成人的這個補償是那麼樣的嚴格這個我們就我的了解應該是委員會裡面的委員他們會去找說實在因為我自己也參與過他在委員會裡面的各不同的這個專科醫師的專家他要去找reference回來去做相關的證明然後再來做一些拆除啦"},{"start":653.325,"end":656.108,"text":"沒有就是說他的補償我沒講補償不要講賠償補償就是緩慢然後我看起來是很GY然後呢賠償的補償的金額又這麼的少欸那是你在賺的捏 市長"},{"start":669.14,"end":691.537,"text":"如果是疫苗的話 那應該是CDC那邊應該是專賜不過 曾委員報告說這邊其實我們尊重整個委員會審查的這些專家啦有些很多 像兒科 很多都是兒科的大前輩那有一些疫苗的部分 如果是非常罕見的大概他們會找一些data來證明那如果是常見的 就是用援引過去的一些所謂的補償的方式"},{"start":692.298,"end":709.783,"text":"好 那謝謝就是本土藥廠這邊真的是要好好的用心不要跟他滑折從頭到尾沒有看到鼓勵的不是拿著棒子要敲人家那也真的拜託委員希望大院能夠趕快來審我們那個藥物任性的那個新興計畫好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167147","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167147","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f85124737ed8c9f133b8dc2a6450645e997ff6512ba5efdfd30aa488f48b86ec085f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"10:22:46 - 10:28:05","影片長度":"00:05:19","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次公聽會（事由：召開「促進民間參與公共建設法第三條--無人載具相關設施之建設及服務」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:22:46+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:28:05+08:00","duration":319,"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.19971875,"end":1.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.54971875,"end":17.96909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.65,"end":15.347,"text":"謝謝主席今天很高興有機會一起來參與這樣的討論我這邊就針對我們的內容做一些意見的說明各位同仁 各位專家先進"}]}},{"id":"167146","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167146","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8513f8ee5bfc684f810e1f8a6d37bdd8b89f6512ba5efdfd30a9afa05eb447b671b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"10:08:04 - 10:21:30","影片長度":"00:13:26","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:08:04+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:21:30+08:00","duration":806,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.650343750000001,"end":9.869093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.814093750000001,"end":12.079718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.113468750000003,"end":12.822218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.42096875,"end":15.825968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.61909375,"end":43.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.48409375,"end":43.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.20971875,"end":46.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.656593750000006,"end":64.64534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.664093750000006,"end":53.018468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.86596875,"end":56.899718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.899718750000005,"end":57.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.18659375,"end":57.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.447843750000004,"end":60.291593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.101593750000006,"end":65.28659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.28659375000001,"end":103.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.82221875,"end":67.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.26409375,"end":102.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.98096875,"end":104.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.52096875000001,"end":106.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.96784375,"end":131.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.18721875,"end":107.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.88284375,"end":111.42284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.42284375000001,"end":111.43971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.22971875000002,"end":138.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.09784375,"end":147.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.46784375000001,"end":187.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.14909375000002,"end":206.49659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.77534375000002,"end":205.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.37409375000001,"end":207.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.67784375000002,"end":208.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.58909375000002,"end":216.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.04346875000002,"end":226.66221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.25284375,"end":238.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.50846875000002,"end":239.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.60534375,"end":256.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.26096875,"end":260.91846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.28971875,"end":264.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.37346875000003,"end":274.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.19471875,"end":283.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.88534375,"end":307.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.74659375000005,"end":347.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.04846875000004,"end":348.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.51659375,"end":353.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.61721875,"end":368.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.93971875,"end":374.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.85471875,"end":381.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.04409375,"end":375.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.51159375000003,"end":405.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.84534375000004,"end":463.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.95034375,"end":513.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.28409375,"end":523.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.44346875,"end":519.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.44721875,"end":527.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.42159375,"end":525.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.21471875,"end":525.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.07534375,"end":561.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.4622187500001,"end":569.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.4565937500001,"end":578.0165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.4553437500001,"end":638.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.58096875,"end":644.4365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.8415937500001,"end":663.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":662.64471875,"end":678.1865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.74846875,"end":675.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.66784375,"end":682.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.76034375,"end":679.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.2703437499999,"end":697.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.76159375,"end":716.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.9822187500001,"end":720.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.7665937500001,"end":728.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.3772187500001,"end":730.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":730.66784375,"end":739.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":740.0503437500001,"end":751.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.83784375,"end":752.8415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":752.50409375,"end":759.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.96721875,"end":765.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":765.6328437500001,"end":768.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":767.97846875,"end":771.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":770.74596875,"end":773.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":773.9015937500001,"end":776.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.67346875,"end":778.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":777.96846875,"end":785.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":783.55409375,"end":786.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":786.4565937500001,"end":791.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":790.6922187499999,"end":793.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":793.4934687500001,"end":797.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":796.91909375,"end":798.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":798.57284375,"end":800.4965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":799.5515937500002,"end":803.1459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":802.1840937500001,"end":802.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":803.83784375,"end":804.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":805.3059687500001,"end":806.1159687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.144,"end":12.552,"text":"來 謝謝主席那請次長跟署長來 次長 署長跟江署長委員長"},{"start":16.661,"end":43.04,"text":"次長早 署長早我想要首先想要先請問一下次長署長請教一下這個食藥署在這幾年在推動這個藥品仿單電子化及西藥非處方簽的這個非處方藥仿單外核格式及規範想要請教一下這個次長或署長看誰回答都可以你們認為目前的推動成效怎麼樣"},{"start":44.261,"end":64.876,"text":"跟委員這邊做報告對藥品的所謂的訪單的電子化的部分目前只有250個藥品左右他們是主動的一部分是OTC的用藥一部分是其實是住院的針劑的用藥因為那個都是醫療院所那總共有多少其實是非常非常多的所以成效算是沒有到"},{"start":65.536,"end":89.058,"text":"很普及 還沒有到很普及所以這件事情其實我在署內積極推動說我們先做第一步所有的電子仿單要電子化之前其實要做格式化所以格式化的目的所有有兩個第一個在未來要轉成電子化的過程當中其實有非常非常多stakeholder我們利害關係者裡面我們最近其實是跟印刷業者在談這件事情"},{"start":89.358,"end":101.746,"text":"沒關係我懂然後第二件事情是這個結構化訪單之後呢以後才有機會能夠轉換這轉換的過程中我們會積極的去規劃我們預計是今年的年底所有結構化能夠達成好那請問一下署長這個目的是什麼"},{"start":104.728,"end":131.293,"text":"我們其實目的是希望讓大家都知道資訊用藥的時候的相關的資訊 是的簡單來講今天問這個題目就是要讓大家知道其實很多的藥你在使用的時候你不知道所有的內容細節甚至不確定完全知道這個有什麼副作用對不對所以我覺得資訊的可及性還不等於資訊的對於資訊的理解所以我本身也有接收到一些"},{"start":132.814,"end":146.372,"text":"食物上第一線的回饋特別是在兒童精神科的複雜情況下其實單靠家長如果要自行查閱這個訪單我想他也沒有辦法足以應對所有的狀況"},{"start":147.654,"end":176.923,"text":"所以本席在這裡想要講的事情說他其實就是相對來講他凸顯了這個醫病共享決策這件事情的重要性那尤其是兩位都是醫生其實你們也知道有時候開藥有時候我們去看醫生一開藥一整包這麼多藥品然後由藥劑師去包裝調劑包裝那如果醫生沒有足夠的時間對病人說清楚每一個藥的副作用病人也不一定可以真的清楚他回去之後吃了什麼可能導致他副作用"},{"start":177.563,"end":206.213,"text":"所以本席有觀察到在食物上的問題呢譬如說在癌症啊或是其他的重症上面這幾年衛福部有推行所謂的醫病共享決策嘛對不對那這個共享決策當然就是醫這個人為與病人為中心的在整個臨床的醫療執行過程中一個很充足的溝通那所以其實這個對於病人或家屬不論在生理上或心理上其實都有很高的效益喔那但是我有觀察到"},{"start":207.967,"end":215.963,"text":"謝謝委員肯定我們對沒錯我覺得這是這個是對的事情我們當然肯定可是我要告訴你們說我也有觀察到在兒童醫療的部分"},{"start":217.136,"end":234.485,"text":"其實因為兒童病人的知識有限所以他當然必須依賴這個監護人或家長但是呢在這個ADHD的這個病症上面因為台灣在教育體系裡面常常因為學校的輔導功能可能還不夠或者專業知識不夠甚至有時候會將篩檢的工具誤用為診斷的依據所以"},{"start":239.688,"end":262.603,"text":"有一些狀況學童不見得是因為ADHD但是在沒有深究原因之前可能就被學校建議家長送醫那如果在第一線沒有足夠的溝通或者是有疏失的情況之下或者是沒有很深入的去了解真的仔細的去檢查的時候因為有時候量很大就可能會直接用藥那這裡就會有個問題囉"},{"start":265.441,"end":282.533,"text":"因為ADHD的藥物包含有利他能和專絲達那這兩種都是三級的管制藥品那仿單上要明確宰明如果於藥品上市後曾有出現自殺念頭或意圖自殺的不良反應的通報"},{"start":284.142,"end":307.232,"text":"這是我聽到第一線的家長還有甚至是一些社工一些這個藥師在反映的狀況所以我就想要跟署長和次長講一下這件事情再來就是說我想要請問一下次長在食藥署跟健保署最近有沒有統計近年來關於利他能跟專施打在兒童族群的處方量的變化以及相關不良反應的通報次的數量請問有沒有"},{"start":308.713,"end":335.454,"text":"部长反映我等一下请同仁这边帮我们查一下我先跟委员报告一下事实上ADHD这个它是有一定的这个盛行率那我们也相信说我们第一线的儿心的医师事实上能够基于他们的专业来做出比较适当的诊断那当然我们也了解过去在学校端有些其实也必须跟委员报告就是说有些ADHD的孩子他事实上受困于他的症状他反而在学校是会被霸凌的"},{"start":335.854,"end":352.567,"text":"所以這一邊其實我們對於這樣的孩子不論是他用藥或者是沒有用藥或者相關孩子他有自殺或相關的念頭這個部分本來就是要通報的那至於是不是藥品那要後端去做一些相關的分析這不是都有通報過嗎如果有這種只要是自殺是一定都要通報那是另外我們在自殺防治通報"},{"start":352.867,"end":376.989,"text":"因為我要跟市長和署長說其實包含之前也有看到相關案例他可能小朋友因為長期沒有可能親耳垢啦還是有一些其他的狀況導致他的這個狀態讓人家誤判以為他是ADHD你知道有這種狀況因為我想ADHD的診斷當然我們是我們是尊重所有我們當然尊重醫師啦但是我要說其實第一線醫生不要說醫生 家長"},{"start":377.99,"end":406.646,"text":"或者是这种社工药师其实都有反映这样的状况我再补充一个资讯其实我们也非常感谢很多相关的专业人士来相关做协助所以之前像陈景洪医师他们有一个心动家族那我认为他的那个模式很好他甚至那个模式到东南亚去做一些宣导事实上这个他就是把家长老师然后还有他的医疗团队全部都作为同一个群组那这样子的话因为有的时候孩子的症状到底是疾病导致还是他的心理导致市长我就是要跟你说的就是这个事情"},{"start":406.846,"end":434.853,"text":"其實在開這樣子的藥品的時候或者是在做這樣子的診斷的時候當然我們就是希望說是不是可以有標準化的流程那也確保說家長監護人被充分告知所有潛在的重大副作用那當然有各個團體或者各個關鍵的角色去看這個小朋友的狀況這當然是我們覺得是最好一定要做到的嘛所以這個部分就是想要跟次長說尤其在診斷這個事情上面是不是可以加強推廣所謂的醫病共享的決策"},{"start":435.413,"end":460.661,"text":"然後並且將這個兒童ADHD的診斷跟治療列為這個醫病共享決策的優先推動項目之一也就是說這個醫師在開藥前是不是應該與家長甚至學校的教師可以更多的討論學童的各個面向避免直接開藥因為他可能會因為他開了這些藥的時候可能至少也要讓這些陪同的家長監護人老師或社工等等要很清楚的知道這個藥品的副作用"},{"start":461.441,"end":485.826,"text":"我覺得這部分是我想要強調的謝謝委員關心其實相關的各種疾病或者是各種用藥我們都是希望能夠在一個充分的醫病共享決策那事實上ADHD這個疾病過去長期以來它有很多人對它的這個我覺得有一些誤解那還是得強調就是它事實上目前在精神科尤其在兒心專科醫師這邊已經非常確定這些孩子如果是確診的孩子他是需要適當的治療的"},{"start":487.206,"end":513.239,"text":"但是这个过程中其实刚刚您所提到的有些时候是家长或者是老师我们也担心因为孩子这个疾病家长或老师他反而会把孩子其他的行为通通都归咎于这个疾病所以这里面我们希望说不要有这种误解那当然中间的沟通家长或者是老师这边愿意积极主动的来陪同孩子到相关的儿心医师这边就医做出充分的沟通我们非常支持"},{"start":513.339,"end":539.974,"text":"次長因為這個時間的關係我希望請你們可以給本席一個這個檢討書面報告就是有關於這個目前的現在的精進作為或是目前的作為的狀況你們發現的問題我們把ADHD相關的一些我們也要把這個第一線剛剛的所有不管是家長或者是剛剛我說過社工啊要是他們發現的狀況在第一線的狀況我在這邊也必須告訴我們次長和署長有這個狀況請你們去關注然後給本席一個這樣子相關的報告"},{"start":540.794,"end":569.548,"text":"那再來我進入第二題就是其實本席也是看到衛福部在114年有推動所謂兒童醫療優化政策那其中有新設的口腔親善之家的專案那也強調所謂早期介入那固定醫療窗口那我覺得這是一個利益良善的政策然而這個標榜不漏接每一位兒童的計畫其實在起跑點上有漏掉一些需要國家保護的一群人"},{"start":570.56,"end":592.206,"text":"比如說這個受虐兒少啦性侵受害婦女之子女啦以及目前在安置機構中的弱勢童這個是這個有關於參與這個計畫相關的醫生告訴我的那目前的政策架構當然是建立顯然是建立在有家長帶領就醫的理想假設上面但是實務上我們有看到這個所謂安置機構的兒童"},{"start":593.346,"end":613.681,"text":"他的那個舉齒的風險其實是極高那醫療的可靜性卻極低那這個次長這群孩子在家長在實質上喔就是我國的政府機關喔那針對這些所謂機構的兒童啦有沒有辦法為什麼沒有在第一時間被納入這個專案的優先保障的對象請教一下次長喔"},{"start":614.241,"end":637.826,"text":"那當一個盡責的家長要為孩子安排這個牙齒屠佛啦會注意孩子的飲食啦我們的政府作為安置兒少的法定家長應該不能不聞不問吧所以我們希望這個社家屬為監護人那這個口腔健康師作為健康管理者這兩個單位應該要有更多的橫向聯繫然後而且要主動把這些小朋友納入這個範圍裡面"},{"start":638.746,"end":662.767,"text":"我想委员这个部分我们在口腔室尤其是我们第一线的医疗人员这边我们当然不太可能自己去取得您刚刚所说的这些资讯受保护的弱势族群的资料所以说资讯受保护的弱势族群这边的口腔健康的需求是不是我们之后如果说有相关的这些团我们这边有这样的需求是不是我们有一个比较好的管道他提出来我们就来协助提供"},{"start":662.807,"end":687.323,"text":"所以我現在就是希望你們去把這件事情做好因為你們這個東西你們有這個計畫可是實際上在第一線包含在地方上其實都沒有落實這個所謂資訊的連接而且讓他們可以主動這些醫師也願意去主動去訪視這些小朋友我們可以去訪視不過這個資訊必須要從高風險這一邊就是願意之後資訊出來我跟你講這是有的你們應該跟地方政府包含社會局去溝通因為很多"},{"start":688.123,"end":715.132,"text":"很多我們第一線他們現在有在做這個計畫的他們是找不滿的你有10%要找這些孩童但是你找不滿他們找不到不知道哪裡找那這些人他本來也不會主動來來看啊因為沒有人帶他來看啊甚至這個第一線醫師有反應說其實如果這個東西有做好的話甚至我們很多兒女包含之前的凱凱案可能很早就發現說他有異樣他去檢查牙齒的時候就會發現說可能有撞掉啊有發生什麼狀況其實這都是"},{"start":717.153,"end":739.065,"text":"一個很重要的點我在這裡一定要提供給我們我想這個中間的連結我們會盡量鼓勵就是說地方的這個尤其是社政這一邊他們如果有這樣的需求能夠來我想請問一下你們現在到底有沒有把這些兒童放到這裡面我們的高危險個案家庭訪視服務是有的但是就是這邊所提到哪些是高危險個案的訪視服務這個部分必須要由社政這邊提過來"},{"start":740.446,"end":764.46,"text":"對 你們要去聯繫吧 這個東西 既然你們的責任因為你們有這個計畫 其實他們橫向的聯繫是不清楚的喔其實他們也有說你們這個所謂的高風險到底定義在哪裡我們社會政這邊互相溝通一下好了好不好對 可不可以盡速的給本席 就是這個東西應該很快啊你們兩個禮拜內可不可以提供給本席辦公室我們跟社政那邊對一下 社政這邊他們到底是哪些所以委員這邊如果有相關的哪幾個"},{"start":765.68,"end":792.987,"text":"我們剛剛說機構的其實是被排在外面的沒有排在外面其實機構如果有需求我們當然一定提供我們是可以到那你們回去趕快盡速研擬完之後給本席辦公室我們把我們目前有的方案提供給委員好不好因為他們第一線就是沒有辦法知道到底是誰而且找不到我都是第一線的聲音告訴你的這個我們也非常需要地方的社會局可以提供不是社會局的問題是有做這個計畫的醫療單位因為醫療單位他需要知道我要去跟誰服務"},{"start":793.687,"end":802.357,"text":"所以你們現在就會辨識他覺得說好像是衛福部這邊這個需求端要讓我們所以我們現在反映給你我們再把這個計畫給委員了解好不好好謝謝好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167160","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167160","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851aaf160f4f67d43bd75d69df13e4e8eda247638a9beb78aab64a5fa53d23552a65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"10:36:49 - 10:44:19","影片長度":"00:07:30","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:36:49+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:44:19+08:00","duration":450,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":5.6334687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.26534375,"end":16.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.552218750000002,"end":12.805343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12.805343750000002,"end":12.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.27721875,"end":18.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.89221875,"end":23.925968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.925968750000003,"end":24.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.516593750000002,"end":26.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.54159375,"end":31.941593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.36346875,"end":33.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.337843750000005,"end":39.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.97409375,"end":45.610343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.06596875,"end":47.213468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":47.517218750000005,"end":49.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.710968750000006,"end":49.930343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.41971875,"end":51.617843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":51.820343750000006,"end":53.440343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":53.71034375,"end":55.110968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":55.650968750000004,"end":57.861593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.01346875,"end":59.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":59.751593750000005,"end":60.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.62471875000001,"end":63.244718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.531593750000006,"end":64.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":65.15159375,"end":66.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":67.02471875,"end":68.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":69.13409375,"end":70.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":70.38284375,"end":71.58096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":72.10409375,"end":73.48784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.01096875,"end":76.05284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":76.40721875,"end":76.69409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.82909375,"end":79.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.56284375,"end":81.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.53721875000001,"end":82.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.52846875,"end":84.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":84.79409375,"end":86.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":86.95409375,"end":88.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.70909375000001,"end":89.94096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":90.70034375,"end":91.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.78034375,"end":92.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.58596875,"end":94.36221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":94.56471875000001,"end":99.42471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.47096875000001,"end":102.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.83346875000001,"end":103.64346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.35221875,"end":105.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":105.70221875,"end":108.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.97596875,"end":109.78596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":110.37659375000001,"end":111.43971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":111.67596875000001,"end":112.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.21159375,"end":116.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.26159375,"end":120.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.48034375,"end":125.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.96909375000001,"end":129.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":130.32284375,"end":131.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.87096875,"end":133.90034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":135.38534375,"end":136.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.44409375,"end":138.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.70534375,"end":141.10596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":141.35909375,"end":142.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":142.54034375,"end":144.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":145.25721875000002,"end":146.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":147.07971875,"end":147.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.05846875,"end":149.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.80471875,"end":153.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.25159375,"end":155.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":155.90534375000001,"end":157.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":158.08221875,"end":161.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.36846875,"end":163.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.68034375000002,"end":166.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.54909375,"end":169.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.84409375,"end":171.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.35846875000001,"end":173.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.56909375,"end":175.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.84721875000002,"end":178.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":177.31971875000002,"end":177.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":178.77096875,"end":180.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":180.81284375,"end":181.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.97721875000002,"end":183.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.41159375,"end":186.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.78659375,"end":190.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.00534375,"end":199.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.74659375000002,"end":214.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.22534375,"end":226.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.42596875,"end":228.28221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.43409375000002,"end":232.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.46721875,"end":235.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.02784375000002,"end":236.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.15846875000003,"end":241.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.71471875,"end":243.94221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.56659375,"end":247.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.48596875,"end":250.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.25346875000002,"end":256.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.63221875,"end":259.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.65284375000005,"end":261.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.79596875000004,"end":268.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":268.37721875,"end":278.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.89534375,"end":274.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":278.55284375,"end":293.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.90221875000003,"end":284.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.52221875000004,"end":285.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.36159375,"end":289.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.99346875000003,"end":295.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":295.90034375000005,"end":298.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.10659375,"end":299.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":299.49471875,"end":303.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":304.15221875000003,"end":306.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.76784375,"end":312.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.84284375000004,"end":316.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.33221875000004,"end":313.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.37846875,"end":314.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.46284375000005,"end":314.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.51346875,"end":314.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.66534375000003,"end":314.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.77471875000003,"end":317.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.24284375,"end":319.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.44471875,"end":330.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.59221875000003,"end":323.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":330.86534375,"end":334.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":334.30784375,"end":336.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":336.38346875,"end":336.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":336.67034375000003,"end":340.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":340.45034375,"end":344.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":344.41596875000005,"end":350.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":350.69346875,"end":351.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.02659375,"end":352.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":353.22471875,"end":358.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":358.60784375000003,"end":360.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":360.53159375,"end":361.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":362.06721875,"end":365.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":365.49284375,"end":368.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":368.83409375,"end":370.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":370.57221875000005,"end":372.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":372.27659375,"end":374.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":374.30159375000005,"end":375.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":375.71909375,"end":377.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":378.06471875,"end":381.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":381.40596875,"end":382.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.67159375,"end":383.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":384.17346875000004,"end":385.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.40534375000004,"end":385.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.86096875000004,"end":393.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.30721875,"end":392.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":392.32409375000003,"end":392.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.64471875000004,"end":392.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.64034375,"end":405.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.33221875000004,"end":394.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.24596875000003,"end":408.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.13159375000004,"end":413.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":414.14346875,"end":421.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.32846875,"end":418.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":418.59846875000005,"end":418.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.61534375,"end":418.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":418.63221875000005,"end":418.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.64909375,"end":418.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":422.22659375,"end":432.94221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":428.13284375,"end":428.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":429.43221875,"end":429.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":432.99284375,"end":433.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.06034375,"end":437.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":435.97971875,"end":436.28346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":437.21159375,"end":437.22846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.22846875000005,"end":437.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.02159375,"end":441.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":441.36284375,"end":441.80159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":441.90284375000005,"end":443.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.62846875,"end":443.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.30346875000004,"end":443.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.38784375,"end":443.42159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.75409375000004,"end":451.97721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.19,"end":5.473,"text":"謝謝 謝謝曾主委 謝謝黃金平召委接下來我們請吳啟明委員發言好 召委一位同仁請我們駐駐中心我們董事長請駐駐中心花董事長委員長"},{"start":24.574,"end":38.961,"text":"好 早 花董事長針對我們的社會住宅其實社會住宅這個政策是非常的正確所以說在我們包含我們在都會區真的接受度都非常高大家都非常期待"},{"start":40.054,"end":59.972,"text":"所以我認為說你說包租代管 其實包租代管的政策不是永續我還是認為社會住宅的興建來推動是一個正確的方向因為怎麼說呢 我跟你說現在很多年輕人買房子買不去因為期待是什麼 就是要自己有房子你說除了社會住宅 畢竟都隔了年"},{"start":65.437,"end":82.544,"text":"尤其儲個薪,我講喔,在我們的頂部,頂部,我們這個頂府社區頂府社區你如果去看,去得非常好啊,一千多號啊但是你有多少,年輕多少,知道買房子買不去的人,大家都莫名其妙"},{"start":83.581,"end":99.233,"text":"包含我們在內地的蟲瓦漆、土層蟲瓦漆、新北市收起的,也是都造成風動因為很多在無處的人,他們都期待社會主宰,並不是包租代管"},{"start":100.609,"end":123.429,"text":"所以說社會住宅的興建這個腳步 一定要持續啊 尤其呢 你說市的土地 我們有很多我們的公寓土地很多過去 那就是你們的錯誤過去很多重劃區 重劃區的比例你要提高啊我們的重劃區比例 都是在地方政府將剩餘的土地來做公開標搜"},{"start":126.284,"end":149.763,"text":"你說過去你那時候所制定的我們的社會住宅要推動來比例把它提高你一個從外區 能夠啟動多少土地 多少的社會住宅因為我們明明知道這個社會住宅在外面在年輕人他們所寄託的就是要擁有一個社會住宅"},{"start":151.954,"end":177.571,"text":"所以你說包租貸款其實包租貸款因為我們台灣的空汙率你空汙率好 你要囤積一些空汙我們政府的政策就是要打起一些炒房嘛打起一些空汙嘛你空汙率起的空汙那麼多你又不需要輸出你就把它加稅嘛這才可以去耗資"},{"start":179.681,"end":195.451,"text":"社會住宅這個腳步一定不能停是不是由董事長你來做說明謝謝委員對整個住宅政策的支持其實住宅政策本來就是多元價值多元的方案在處理"},{"start":196.104,"end":213.705,"text":"大家在意關心的重點可能會隨著進度而會有改變會有調整或檢討像說因為我們現在就是說需要社宅在蓋所以很多人在期待蓋好的社宅很忙的當然那個力量很大"},{"start":214.406,"end":243.795,"text":"所以說怎麼樣在現階段多一點可以來直接提供幫助得到的數量所以說租金補貼或包租貸款它就會是比較快讓期待得到政府幫助的年輕人或一般的家庭能夠優先所以說這就是一個現階段的一個思考和調整那過去早期因為連社宅都沒有也沒有租金補貼也沒有包租貸款大家可能是說你有什麼都好"},{"start":244.765,"end":258.938,"text":"當我們走到這裡走了這些年來其實我覺得在這個時間點做一次整體性的再思考和檢討然後再來看蓋完的社宅可能他申請的住戶數有沒有因為我"},{"start":259.724,"end":277.958,"text":"很多的租金補貼了而可能那邊的壓力會小一點點我覺得這都是大家可以互相思考和檢討的地方好 董事長我是要了解說今個市場一間年輕人他們的需求他們的願望就是說能取得一個社會住宅"},{"start":278.878,"end":298.681,"text":"所以說社會自在這個需求是絕對比包住貸款 絕對比租金補貼 誘因還要大所以說在這個保溫 你要做個整個調整 未來你的沖化區你的取得土地 一定要比例把它提高"},{"start":299.908,"end":308.133,"text":"比例提高 我們的用意就是要去社會主宰嘛這才可以徹底開發社會主宰當然 當然 感謝委員一直跟我們支持啦 其實我們這保護也很認真在做好 感謝 謝謝 來 請我們原住民我們主委請鎮主委"},{"start":322.666,"end":341.878,"text":"好 主委好因為原住民在我的選區裡面原住民的比例在新北市是非常的高那非常的高我發現原住民的語言現在都已經斷層因為年輕的你說學校的客戶所教導的出來"},{"start":342.558,"end":371.633,"text":"未必跟他實際上在家裡家裡的一些老長輩的交的速度應該會比較快那北斜還是提倡說我們多辦一些活動讓我們原住民的小朋友大家都能來接觸你看一些我們的活動的話小朋友他們接觸的領悟率會比較高所以未來我還是希望說我們原住民多來辦一些大型的活動"},{"start":372.538,"end":392.786,"text":"讓我們原住民的小朋友大家能接觸這學習的語言應該比在平常學校的課程應該還會吸收的快是不是這樣對 因為很多這個語言還是要經常被使用就是說那如果透過大型的活動不管是歌"},{"start":393.706,"end":413.272,"text":"歌謠 不管是舞蹈 不管是一些這個還有戲曲 戲曲的比賽我們都有在做這樣的一個比賽 前果啦有分初賽 結賽 都有啦希望就是我們 持續要辦這樣的活動啦讓小朋友 還有學校的學生 持續來使用自己的魔力"},{"start":414.729,"end":442.348,"text":"對 因為我看我們三峽那個紀惠所也蓋好了那未來我們還是要去推動一些活動不能說蓋了後來我們就丟給地方政府我們中央還是要介入還是要多辦個活動因為我們在我們三峽這個地方還有我們土城我們原住民的部落是人口最多還有樹林嘛那未來我們還是積極的來做規劃好不好好好 謝謝"},{"start":448.897,"end":449.259,"text":"謝謝吳啟明委員的質詢"}]}},{"id":"167159","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167159","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f85130fdc5766d86087575d69df13e4e8eda247638a9beb78aab0b94474edbfc61895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"10:30:27 - 10:36:39","影片長度":"00:06:12","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:30:27+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:36:39+08:00","duration":372,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.96221875,"end":13.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.35784375,"end":16.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.26471875,"end":17.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.550968750000003,"end":21.141593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.79971875,"end":22.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.16659375,"end":23.504093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.297218750000003,"end":27.942218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.38096875,"end":32.329718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.88659375,"end":33.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.67971875,"end":38.134718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.16846875,"end":51.735968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.056593750000005,"end":58.485968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.025968750000004,"end":59.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.055343750000006,"end":62.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.94096875,"end":66.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.83471875000001,"end":70.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.48846875000001,"end":74.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.28096875,"end":74.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.20909375000001,"end":77.30159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.53784375000001,"end":78.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.34784375000001,"end":80.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.50784375,"end":81.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.62159375,"end":86.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.56596875000001,"end":90.12659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.26159375,"end":93.13034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.65346875,"end":93.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.04159375,"end":98.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.34034375,"end":101.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.44534375,"end":104.87534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.07784375,"end":109.17846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.53721875000001,"end":108.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.43159375,"end":112.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.26659375000001,"end":114.24096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.51096875,"end":116.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.80596875,"end":118.62846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.81409375000001,"end":119.26971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.42159375000001,"end":120.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.73784375000001,"end":123.67409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.96096875,"end":126.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.20096875,"end":132.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.83721875,"end":133.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.89596875,"end":141.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.28721875000002,"end":145.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.52721875,"end":145.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.98284375,"end":147.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.02471875,"end":154.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.63971875000001,"end":160.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.69784375,"end":164.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.25409375,"end":172.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.30346875,"end":179.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.47971875000002,"end":181.09971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.62284375000002,"end":184.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.12034375000002,"end":184.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.87971875000002,"end":188.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.94659375,"end":192.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.65909375,"end":198.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.37534375,"end":200.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.97846875000002,"end":203.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.03721875000002,"end":203.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.17221875,"end":204.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.04534375,"end":208.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.09534375,"end":222.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.17346875,"end":227.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.25284375,"end":229.10909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.91096875000002,"end":233.42909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.99034375000002,"end":233.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.98596875,"end":237.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.49159375000002,"end":244.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.75221875000003,"end":248.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.05534375000002,"end":249.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.50659375,"end":251.06346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.55284375000002,"end":253.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.17284375000003,"end":254.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.33721875,"end":255.31596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.67034375000003,"end":257.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.89784375,"end":262.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.38659375000003,"end":262.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.17971875,"end":263.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.39034375,"end":268.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.54596875000004,"end":271.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.95471875000004,"end":274.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.65471875000003,"end":278.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.82284375,"end":283.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.26096875,"end":288.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.69909375000003,"end":287.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.88471875,"end":288.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.08284375,"end":289.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.24721875,"end":295.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.62659375000004,"end":292.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.14096875,"end":300.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.14846875,"end":305.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.55284375,"end":307.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.20221875000004,"end":312.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.64034375,"end":315.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.94784375,"end":318.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.18784375,"end":327.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.04721875,"end":331.33784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.48971875,"end":334.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.64534375,"end":342.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.57659375000003,"end":346.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.11596875000004,"end":348.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.36471875,"end":365.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.47596875000005,"end":365.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.66159375,"end":368.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.42909375000005,"end":371.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.48346875000004,"end":371.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.01471875000004,"end":374.23409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.967,"end":17.453,"text":"好 謝謝主席 本席歡和一下情緒我們有請一下原民會主委請原民會曾志勇 曾主委委員好主委早 節哀 節哀好 各位所以今天是我們原民會的業務報告本席要跟你翻一件對台東許多原住民鄉親非常嚴重的一個警訊"},{"start":33.772,"end":59.595,"text":"現在如果很清楚全國55個鄉鎮原住民鄉鎮裡面台東縣就佔了15個那尤其這個台東的21萬人口裡面有將近三分之一大概就是8萬人口左右是我們原住民的人數那高居全國第三高那不過這一次這個中央政府將地方政府的財力集資做出一個非常不合理的這個調整會造成"},{"start":60.258,"end":66.157,"text":"未來許多原住民鄉鎮嚴重的衝擊喔那主委 主委你知道台東縣以往都是第幾級 財政等級"},{"start":67.864,"end":91.281,"text":"我所知應該不是第一集啦應該是 因為主委你常說要計畫嘛我們才說一直來都第五集嘛然後結果 最近公布的一個名次是第一一次將第五集調到第一集齁這個跟首都台北是同樣列為自籌款最高的這個等級齁主委這個不是升等 這個是城中的負擔這個也不是獎勵 這個是變相的懲罰"},{"start":94.435,"end":104.07,"text":"為什麼講變相懲罰 我們中央公告這個財力第一級的縣市包括台北市新竹縣市 然後台東縣喔那台北市一年的稅收大概是1800億"},{"start":105.185,"end":126.481,"text":"那新竹縣是有科學園區作為重要的財源的來源那台東縣的人口大概是21萬年稅收大概是12億這麼大的差距結果它放在同一個集區裡面那更嚴重的是未來我們中央政府可以依據這樣的財政分配的分級的理由減少對台東的補助"},{"start":127.262,"end":150.648,"text":"那對我們台東未來要推動地方建設社會福利還要都要負擔更高的自籌款嗎那這個部分本席在收到這個消息我們也馬上邀請我們台東縣的副縣長王智慧副縣長我們立刻到台北跟我們主計處來抗議齁那我們必須要重新來檢討台東的這個財力市我們也必須要請"},{"start":151.648,"end":162.556,"text":"主基礎要含穩給中央各部會跟所有機關未來在受理台東補助的各項計畫的時候要考慮第一個台東的偏遠性還有第二個是我們原住民地區應該從寬來認定補助標準"},{"start":165.342,"end":188.133,"text":"主要我們原住民我們原住民族委員會裡面有一個就是那個原民會對首屬機關還有對地方政府補助的這個原則這個原民會對地方補助這個計畫型的補助啊會依照地方的這個財力其實不同而給不同的補助對吧那最高的比例是不能超過90%嘛對不對那如果財力第一級的地方政府除非符合"},{"start":189.073,"end":198.531,"text":"相關的情況 不然是願不願意是不會補足 本席這樣講對不對我跟委員報告喔 不管這個縣市是這個他的這個分級是第幾"},{"start":199.42,"end":220.476,"text":"原住民鄉永遠是脆弱的一個部分你即便是第一級他對原住民鄉的照顧一定也是比較脆弱所以我們對原住民鄉的補助不會因為等級而有什麼特別的差別就是說我們一樣就是仍然是照顧原鄉照顧自己的族人"},{"start":221.216,"end":247.974,"text":"為主啦所以主委你的意思是未來不管台東縣幾級我們還是比照原住民鄉鎮的補助標準對不對台東縣的15個會跟其他40個原住民鄉鎮都一樣嘛 對不對謝謝主委 所以其實這個大家都很擔心因為你看台東縣16個鄉鎮有15個都是原住民鄉鎮你這些鄉鎮長他情何以堪未來他只要想到他的計畫型補助我要自籌款拉到這麼高我以後怎麼敢再送計畫那"},{"start":250.526,"end":263.34,"text":"你看那個原本可以申請到98接下來可能都沒有的申請未來他要推計劃就直接被他就直接被刷掉因為這個其實就把他刷掉嘛這個是非常不公平的那我想"},{"start":265.407,"end":288.353,"text":"我們再看到一份資料就是說本期這邊辦公室統計說過去三年台東縣各鄉鎮跟原民會申請計劃計劃性的補助高達400個項目那我們總計的金額是36億如果按照我們原住民原住民原民會的補助標準這個金額是不是如果我說的照剛才講的如果是用一級的看他不是是腰斬他是所剩無幾的各位注意"},{"start":289.49,"end":304.86,"text":"所以台東縣是中央民國很重要的原住民鄉鎮我們也自詡是南島文化的發源地那如果說未來如果原民會的態度不支持我們的話我們台東縣原住民鄉鎮都不會被照顧到也不能去重視所以在這邊本席要跟"},{"start":305.62,"end":327.615,"text":"因為這邊提出兩個具體的要求第一個就是我們原民會必須去檢討現行的財力集資的補助標準如果中央仍然不願意調整台東的財力集資那原民會針對第一極限制中的台東縣就必須考量原住民鄉鎮發展還有台東縣自有稅收不足的情況放寬經費上的補助的比例就是剛才主委你承諾的這些事情"},{"start":328.115,"end":347.931,"text":"那另外對我們台東縣15個原住民鄉鎮的權益標準要比照其他40個原住民鄉鎮那第二個我們原住民民會在參加參與其他部會的這個計劃審查的時候也必須明確的跟其他部會來表達就是說未來必須考慮台東縣地理的條件交通劣勢還有我們的稅都不足加上是原住民地區"},{"start":348.491,"end":370.807,"text":"因此計畫性的補助款應該要全力來協助避免造成城鄉的差異過大衝擊到我們原鄉的這個城鎮的發展那以上兩點也請主委來承諾會跟我們相關單位來強力爭取並且在一週內提供本市資料提供本市辦公室主委好 會 我們會照委員的建議謝謝主委的支持 馬上就謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167158","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167158","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8514fc12062c4146cb675d69df13e4e8eda247638a9beb78aab0b94474edbfc61895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"10:15:46 - 10:30:21","影片長度":"00:14:35","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:15:46+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:30:21+08:00","duration":875,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":14.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.15096875,"end":15.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.89346875,"end":17.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.37409375,"end":19.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.60159375,"end":71.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.96909375,"end":83.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.18659375,"end":86.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.31284375,"end":93.31596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.58596875,"end":100.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.85909375,"end":111.05159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.18659375,"end":118.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.17284375000001,"end":175.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.36221875,"end":191.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.93346875,"end":201.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.59846875000002,"end":233.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.07909375000003,"end":205.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.31159375000001,"end":229.56471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.31096875000003,"end":289.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.23409375000003,"end":240.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.79034375,"end":246.82784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.90721875000003,"end":253.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.53909375,"end":263.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.17034375000003,"end":271.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.51721875000004,"end":295.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.23409375,"end":294.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.35159375,"end":321.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.73971875,"end":300.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.31159375000004,"end":311.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.64034375,"end":316.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.29284375000003,"end":338.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.96221875000003,"end":336.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.18909375000004,"end":341.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.42034375000003,"end":346.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.40284375000005,"end":349.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.49096875000004,"end":366.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.02221875000004,"end":353.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.50659375000004,"end":359.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.26909375,"end":373.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.69409375000004,"end":374.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.70221875000004,"end":377.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.15346875,"end":386.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.89034375,"end":482.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.92659375000005,"end":403.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.37909375000004,"end":421.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.58846875,"end":500.86409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.40409375,"end":516.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.0134687500001,"end":535.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.16784375,"end":530.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.54721875,"end":533.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.74471875,"end":570.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.30846875,"end":546.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.18909375,"end":555.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.35346875,"end":555.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.58971875,"end":560.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.27159375,"end":570.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.9584687500001,"end":574.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.3503437500001,"end":583.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.7553437500001,"end":576.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.04096875,"end":594.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.0772187499999,"end":620.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.37471875,"end":616.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.20034375,"end":620.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.55409375,"end":629.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.11096875,"end":627.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.82284375,"end":647.3897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.8684687500001,"end":637.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.01409375,"end":662.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.3703437500001,"end":664.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.88909375,"end":677.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.8159687500001,"end":675.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.25034375,"end":675.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.37221875,"end":680.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.9540937500001,"end":715.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.99471875,"end":693.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.2053437500001,"end":693.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.67346875,"end":700.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":700.5459687500002,"end":704.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.16471875,"end":715.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.17221875,"end":721.8928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.75846875,"end":721.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.3103437500001,"end":728.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.82846875,"end":737.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.9128437500001,"end":736.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.55284375,"end":739.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.0672187499999,"end":741.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":741.5522187500001,"end":742.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.1553437500002,"end":760.4015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":760.51971875,"end":813.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":761.4309687500001,"end":765.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":766.24034375,"end":769.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":788.34659375,"end":793.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":804.96846875,"end":807.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":808.6640937500001,"end":813.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":814.8403437500001,"end":818.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":818.7553437500001,"end":819.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":820.12221875,"end":823.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":820.13909375,"end":822.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":823.2947187500001,"end":827.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":824.4253437500001,"end":826.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":827.71596875,"end":834.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":829.9097187500001,"end":830.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.93471875,"end":832.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":834.46596875,"end":845.9072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":835.29284375,"end":836.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":838.09409375,"end":838.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":838.14471875,"end":843.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.3290937500001,"end":848.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":848.5903437500001,"end":861.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":849.8897187500002,"end":853.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":854.1928437500001,"end":855.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":856.3190937500001,"end":858.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":860.03159375,"end":861.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":862.32659375,"end":871.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":872.1140937500002,"end":874.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":874.99971875,"end":876.19784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.649,"end":18.797,"text":"賴清德總統上任後政府公開就是發布新聞說明確宣布以盤點227處國公有的土地結合老舊的住舍就是改建"},{"start":20.677,"end":31.31,"text":"可新建約9萬戶的社會住宅但現在內政部卻改口說社會住宅用地取得困難我要請教一下是當初盤點的錯誤還是我們賴總統"},{"start":37.157,"end":56.432,"text":"對社宅的政見正式跳票這227處的土地現在在哪裡另外行政院過去也明確指出在市地重花於區段的徵收中保留3至5%的土地"},{"start":57.052,"end":83.499,"text":"共給社會住宅使用這是政府過去用來支撐社宅用地的不缺最重要的政策工具這是政策現在還在不在今三年全國市地重劃案件中有多少實際的保留社宅用地部長請你回答一下"},{"start":84.839,"end":104.205,"text":"謝謝委員的指教 我跟委員報告我們的百萬租屋家庭支持計畫的目標從來沒有改變過現在我們是在可行性還有精準性還有即時性上面做務實的調整跟變動也不是外界所說的社會住宅從此不蓋 不是這個樣子 委員可能誤解"},{"start":106.306,"end":129.088,"text":"那您所提到的227處的部分是在113年的時候那個時候國土署全部盤點所有可能的這個土地那盤點出來去除掉已經招標跟不可行的基地還有各機關有提供這個閒置用地的話到昨天為止一共是235處是增加的"},{"start":129.528,"end":146.983,"text":"但是我們所謂的百萬租屋家庭支持計畫最主要我們發現到在精華土地也就是說在稀缺性極高的淡黃區土地裡面才是真正年輕人或者是社會住宅需要有的這個土地的部分"},{"start":147.683,"end":174.707,"text":"所以我們現在所處理的這個部分改採叫做多元興辦那多元興辦包括都市計畫的變耕 都耕分回協商使用土地的地上物遷移等等這些那預計在115年到116年優先興辦大概會有40處左右那這40處就會是分布在我剛跟委員報告的所謂的稀缺性的土地可能就是分布在北北 陶中這四個地塊"},{"start":175.487,"end":201.008,"text":"好所以你說這樣子的話的資料可以一份給我但是我要提醒的盤點不是許願清單是說政府對人民的承諾如果是227處的土地不能使用就不能蓋的話就不能排成但是因為我們要的就是說當初這個政見就是要拿來"},{"start":202.659,"end":206.282,"text":"不是騙票的所以我們是希望真真要來去蓋正式的要個興建如果答案沒有我們就不是事實所以我們希望就不是說土地不見了是政府選擇不做我們是怕的是這個所以呢我們現在部長說這個要蓋很多但是我們沒有看到就沒有看到"},{"start":228.317,"end":240.05,"text":"所以政府在我們現在已經完成12.2萬戶了怎麼會沒有呢那是我們的政策方針實際用在就是現在可受惠的對象還是100萬為主所以說我要你把這個詳細的資料要給我們因為你自己在"},{"start":247.358,"end":253.161,"text":"在網路上說我們是困難 所以我才說針對你要講的是困難我們有挑戰 但是我們在解決這方面的問題而且有提出精進的方案 希望能夠即時性的來補助所以你們是說實際上用租金 就是補貼包住代管這些取代就是興建 收費 助展"},{"start":271.51,"end":276.313,"text":"但是說把這樣子的承諾的新建住宅 社宅改成就是大規模的補貼啦所以請教我們的租屋補貼 真實等於社會住宅嗎沒有等於嘛 對不對所以我們希望說 你說怎麼樣去大規模來去補貼 所以說不等於社會住宅所以委員你希望租金補貼停止嗎"},{"start":297.403,"end":300.285,"text":"我現在不是說 社會住宅是政府直接提供可負擔還有品質的 穩定租期給我們的公共住宅但是不能就是能平移房租改善房屋的品質但是租金補貼只是把錢丟進市場"},{"start":322.458,"end":334.747,"text":"無法確保就是租屋的品質所以就是還可能也會推高就是房租所以請部長清楚回答是內政部這邊承不承認租屋補貼無法期待社會住宅無法期待 會嗎 報告委員租屋補貼是什麼意思租金補貼還是包租代管"},{"start":350.609,"end":372.643,"text":"社會住宅無法取代 在我們住宅法裡面直接新蓋跟包住代管都是屬於我們現在要的是新建社會住宅所以你講這一些我希望說我們是租不住這一些的話是不等於社會住宅所以說社會住宅我們的"},{"start":375.745,"end":399.253,"text":"包租代管沒辦法取代社會住宅你承認嗎包租代管我剛剛跟委員報告過在我們的住宅法裡面它也是屬於社會住宅的一種那當然如果用樹地來興建的話我們也必須要考慮它的地段是不是在稀缺的土地上面也就是說現在有需求的這些我只要問你說是說是不能取代的但是我們現在看到的就是"},{"start":404.295,"end":406.297,"text":"沒有那麼多說你們承諾你們是在選舉的時候在說有227處是你們已經盤點了所以你們已經盤點了所以我們才要問說盤點了到現在我們總統已經一年半了我們沒有看到"},{"start":424.873,"end":426.874,"text":"所以呢盤點的地方是錯誤嗎所以我們是說我們說沒辦法期待但是事實上社宅的目標就是被下修了嘛補貼預算不斷的擴大"},{"start":441.418,"end":444.161,"text":"所以新建的社宅核定數據是零所以這個不是並行而是說用補貼掩蓋不蓋社宅我們不接受而且國際上也沒有這樣子的國家就是把包住代管作為社宅的"},{"start":460.214,"end":482.053,"text":"的社會住宅我希望就是不要偷換概念所以你說的剛才有講說什麼很多空屋在請教我們的部長現在到底有沒有掌握全國社會住宅的實際需求還有答案其實大家都知道"},{"start":483.235,"end":500.09,"text":"是零 沒有中央政府到今天為止從來沒有堅持說任何全國性的社會住宅的需求登記的機制也就是說政府不是因為已經掌握需求判斷"},{"start":501.972,"end":511.902,"text":"會沒有人租 而是完全沒有需求的資料的狀況下先下結論說可能就是沒有人租這不是謹慎的評估喔 這是說設建後再"},{"start":517.508,"end":531.017,"text":"這話吧再更幻妙的是我們的部長長期拒絕說全國社會住宅需求登記平台讓真正需求被關在黑箱裡所以反過來說自己就是黑箱暫住不蓋社宅的理由我們要的是承諾也要實現不是用講的在到選舉的時候說227處到現在我們都沒有看到是這樣"},{"start":546.286,"end":559.636,"text":"沒有 報告委員 您剛才還跟我說取資料我跟妳報告的時候 我們新辦事實處1.1萬戶 妳叫我給妳資料啊就表示說這個資料有在啊然後我們有說連一戶都還沒核定就是我已經告訴妳就是有這麼說就是取得土地難 蓋也難所以現在妳講的 還有我們網路找的也沒有網路上面不一定是事實 請看我們的記者會比較好所以妳看記者會說的嘛"},{"start":575.399,"end":593.191,"text":"所以我們記者會那個所有的全部的這個方式三軌併進都講得非常清楚包括我們今天的報告案請委員能夠把這個報告案能夠詳實的看一下裡面的數據那我們會根據委員的垂詢跟批評指教的部分來做精進 謝謝"},{"start":595.234,"end":610.424,"text":"好 如果你是說是這樣子的話我希望說我們現在因為我看到你新聞又說什麼全國有90萬空屋所以不需要再蓋社宅這也是你說的所以我請教一下91萬戶的空屋今天才出現嗎我們在調整戶數現在是才出現嗎台灣空屋"},{"start":621.611,"end":624.673,"text":"空屋的成長率已經為止10%了為什麼過去可以說要蓋社宅現在說拿空屋來當理由不蓋如果政府真的認為空屋可以為租金供給的話請教一下我們的空屋稅在哪裡就是囤房稅改革為什麼是"},{"start":648.087,"end":660.297,"text":"避重就輕 沒有任何的制度 逼屋主撕出房租房子讓我們就是不能只靠補助政府要從哪裡編出10萬戶"},{"start":664.02,"end":676.334,"text":"就是供給人民 我們要的是承諾要的是政府 要我們賴清德的承諾我們要的是執行的 精準的方案"},{"start":678.436,"end":693.048,"text":"而且我們的目標從來沒有改變過我們也沒有說不蓋社會住宅只是我們在調整它的戶數希望能夠全部集中在北北桃中這些精華土地剛剛也跟委員報告過現在是全國都有需要在蔡英文總統的學問戶裡面全都在拿"},{"start":699.133,"end":704.676,"text":"在哪裡我們沒有看到所以我們不能說在這個當藉口啦現在我們又看到了又提出說可移動住宅廣大的包租貸款我們看到的是這樣因為你新聞也講嘛剛才有講嘛"},{"start":723.376,"end":730.042,"text":"我現在跟你講的是說我們看到的數據會說話所以數據不會說謊但是政府會說謊所以我們希望賴清德上任"},{"start":740.151,"end":752.098,"text":"他的證件要去承諾要去承諾因為我們沒有看到任何給新的社會住宅新建案卻不斷的就是擴大的補貼改名詞 包住代管 充數這不是調整的"},{"start":760.723,"end":764.466,"text":"政策 這是多元新辦社會住宅 報告委員 合乎住宅法合乎住宅法的規範這是政府自己的社宅目標被砍掉這不是方法的問題 是選擇以市長低頭 所以我們希望希望是說要對人民不要"},{"start":784.421,"end":792.524,"text":"不要騙人 真的 人家要大所以政府呢 現在在涉宅政策已經不是能力的問題也不是赤裸裸的是政見挑票所以呢 我們選前要蓋選後要實現 我們要求就是這樣子而已所以呢 不是替自己找理由不是要替自己找理由內政部要停止用股票的"},{"start":814.841,"end":833.768,"text":"包租貸款來掩蓋就是社會住宅所以委員你認為包租貸款不要推是嗎要勇敢來去面對社會住宅沒有真正的承諾沒有真正的實現委員你否定包租貸款政策嗎我現在說社會住宅"},{"start":835.248,"end":852.815,"text":"我剛有提到包租貸款也是社會住宅的一種在我們住宅法裡面18條跟19條講得非常的清楚沒辦法去等於也沒辦法取代社會住宅沒辦法等於也沒辦法取代所以只是另外一個政策沒辦法等於也沒辦法取代社會住宅謝謝委員的指教我們沒有欺騙我們更務實我們非常務實跟精準"},{"start":863.01,"end":870.938,"text":"就是要承諾要去真正的要人民看到的承諾不是只是掩蓋以上謝謝謝謝麥政委員 謝謝劉部長接下來我們請"}]}},{"id":"167157","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167157","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851305fa1a1f81a242f75d69df13e4e8eda247638a9beb78aab0b94474edbfc61895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"10:09:51 - 10:15:23","影片長度":"00:05:32","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:09:51+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:15:23+08:00","duration":332,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.920343750000001,"end":9.109718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.40909375,"end":11.337218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.965343750000002,"end":38.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.99534375,"end":39.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":41.42534375,"end":47.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":47.65221875,"end":48.580343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.305968750000005,"end":51.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":51.415343750000005,"end":56.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.15284375,"end":59.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":59.36346875,"end":61.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.759718750000005,"end":65.26971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.27409375,"end":67.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.37909375000001,"end":88.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.36971875,"end":73.48784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.19534375,"end":82.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.28721875000001,"end":89.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.78909375,"end":90.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.52721875,"end":101.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.72034375000001,"end":98.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.05346875000001,"end":99.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.60159375,"end":105.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.78659375000001,"end":112.55346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.78971875,"end":117.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.56534375000001,"end":125.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.07034375,"end":126.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.10409375,"end":127.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.21784375000001,"end":136.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.97159375,"end":148.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.02471875,"end":155.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":155.98971875,"end":168.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.96659375000002,"end":194.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":193.68846875,"end":193.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.24534375000002,"end":194.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.81909375,"end":194.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.19034375,"end":195.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.72596875000002,"end":203.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.81034375000002,"end":197.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.53096875,"end":202.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.96534375000002,"end":204.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":205.65284375000002,"end":206.85096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.85096875000002,"end":209.71971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":206.88471875000002,"end":207.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.12471875,"end":212.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.45784375000002,"end":220.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.82346875000002,"end":222.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.29159375,"end":222.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.83159375000002,"end":222.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.96659375000002,"end":223.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.74284375000002,"end":239.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.38409375,"end":224.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.48721875,"end":240.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.41534375,"end":240.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.22534375,"end":244.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.14034375000003,"end":249.86534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.38034375,"end":248.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.28721875000002,"end":258.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.57284375,"end":260.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.45846875,"end":263.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.82096875,"end":268.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.76096875,"end":282.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.21034375,"end":283.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.57721875000004,"end":299.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.06846875,"end":302.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.10221875,"end":300.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.66721875,"end":312.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.82221875000005,"end":309.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.70784375,"end":315.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.76221875000005,"end":320.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.85846875000004,"end":322.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.84909375,"end":328.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.48159375,"end":331.96221875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.294,"end":11.203,"text":"來我先請原住民族的主委請曾主委"},{"start":15.234,"end":38.681,"text":"委員長來 主委剛剛也有委員問到原住民身份法這個1月5號前這個問題你剛聽到你講還有4000多人還有4000多人當然啦時間過後呢他還是可以恢復這是沒有錯可是這4000多人我覺得人數也不多那為什麼無法一一通知到他們"},{"start":41.471,"end":66.168,"text":"我們都有書面但是就是有的譬如說他不在國內啦或者是有一些就是說他的戶籍地可是他他經常的時間呢不是在戶籍地都是在到外面去到都會去來工作的這個我們也會協助我們也拜託公所協助來來催請他們趕快來申請這個報告我為什麼會我為什麼會特別"},{"start":68.49,"end":85.238,"text":"你說你除了在國外之外其實4000多人我覺得人數不多我們其實你透過工作 透過族群透過我們部落其實都可以掌握我覺得這一個我認為應該"},{"start":91.618,"end":116.505,"text":"把它做成一個例子以後如果有類似的情形應該要及早通知我覺得這不困難啦好 才4000多人而已我覺得這個為什麼我要這樣特別請教那我們平埔原住民族群身分法的草案也通過了對不對那未來呢平埔族原住民他們"},{"start":117.945,"end":139.724,"text":"會不會也有類似他要恢復他的身分會不會有同樣的問題會出現這個就是說評普組的部分就是一開始先登記登記完之後才會面臨這樣的問題不管那個過程是怎麼樣總有一天會遇到這個問題吧會不會 會會嘛 好"},{"start":143.567,"end":157.72,"text":"平埔族原住民遇到這個問題的話會不會比現在的這個更複雜會 所以我們及早要藉這次的經驗看怎麼樣就是說來跟這個各平埔原住民的這個他們將來這個審議委員會"},{"start":160.683,"end":179.56,"text":"我們也會透過怎麼樣的一個宣傳讓他們也能夠在都在期限內來登記我跟你講現在4000多人都沒有辦法了到時候平埔族更多對不對那你應該以這一次的事情你去檢討"},{"start":181.101,"end":202.792,"text":"是怎麼樣沒有辦法通知然後是怎麼樣你至少啊要有一個範例出來吧對不對然後以後如果有這個至少不會從零開始啊對不對我們會整理成一個SOP跟委員報告就是說這個未來是怎麼樣來應應這個事情你們現在有SOP了嗎"},{"start":205.786,"end":221.734,"text":"我們現在已經在做 你們現在有SOP了嗎我們現在跟內政部正在合作包含地方政府還有公所跟護所來建立這個SOP之後我們會把這個SOP建立起來所以現在還沒有嗎"},{"start":224.718,"end":236.956,"text":"所以我說要以這次的例子趕快去防範於未來不然未來這個問題我覺得會比這個我認為是百倍不值"},{"start":239.642,"end":268.255,"text":"而且 你們跟內政部啊尤其是跟婦政事務所要緊密的配合開會啦像剛剛 主委你說婦所人員了解不清楚其實 我說真的我也要幫婦所同仁說一句話不是他了解不清楚啦我不認為是他了解不清楚啦婦政事務所人員不會做特別去刁難是因為"},{"start":270.551,"end":299.47,"text":"兩個單位 你那正部跟園民會你們兩個單位你們沒有把該有的那個範例範本給他 給他說清楚如果有說清楚我不認為第一線的婦生事務所的同仁會這樣為什麼咧他這樣只是找他自己麻煩啊他一次可以辦好的他變成要辦好多次我不相信婦所的同仁會自己找自己麻煩啊所以我的意思是說多把它建立成範本或什麼人家一看就很清楚啦這樣可以嗎 好"},{"start":300.17,"end":321.285,"text":"可以啦 我們可以做這樣的修正那給你們時間做啦我也不認為這個三個月之內你可以做得出來這個SOP我也不相信啦但我覺得半年的時間應該夠吧好 可以可以啦 半年 努力那就給你們半年的時間去研究一下好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":326.834,"end":327.456,"text":"謝謝張鴻祿委員的質詢 接下來請麥玉珍"}]}},{"id":"167156","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167156","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851f522a2cde146f1a275d69df13e4e8eda247638a9beb78aaba488f48b86ec085f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"10:00:16 - 10:09:45","影片長度":"00:09:29","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:00:16+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:09:45+08:00","duration":569,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.11471875,"end":6.494093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.236593750000001,"end":8.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.919093750000002,"end":14.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.914718750000002,"end":22.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.61846875,"end":20.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.28909375,"end":22.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.32284375,"end":22.356593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.54221875,"end":37.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.72971875,"end":48.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.626593750000005,"end":54.773468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.790343750000005,"end":60.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.51534375000001,"end":60.78096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.51096875,"end":64.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.67909375,"end":66.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.73784375000001,"end":69.08346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.77534375,"end":70.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.93971875,"end":72.67784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.93096875,"end":78.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.50409375000001,"end":117.16034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.59471875000001,"end":120.06284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.41721875,"end":127.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.75471875000001,"end":121.98659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.85909375000001,"end":150.84284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.33221875,"end":156.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.66471875000002,"end":162.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.79034375,"end":172.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.91534375,"end":174.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.68721875,"end":181.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.96471875,"end":250.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.74409375000002,"end":188.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.77784375000002,"end":188.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.96346875,"end":189.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.09409375,"end":190.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.41471875000002,"end":190.49909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.21596875,"end":193.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.08471875,"end":196.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.30409375000002,"end":265.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.21721875000003,"end":269.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.89596875,"end":272.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.35971875,"end":274.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.43534375,"end":290.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.32534375,"end":276.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.55096875000004,"end":292.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.64346875,"end":328.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.96409375,"end":293.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.82784375,"end":328.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.70534375,"end":328.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.82346875,"end":328.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.99221875,"end":329.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.00909375000003,"end":329.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.02596875,"end":332.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.75159375000004,"end":330.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.29971875,"end":357.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.03846875000005,"end":363.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.33284375000005,"end":364.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.94034375,"end":384.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.34909375,"end":369.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.46159375,"end":377.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.86971875,"end":405.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.25534375,"end":400.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.77846875,"end":400.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.60096875000005,"end":403.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.58784375000005,"end":407.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.27971875000003,"end":406.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.24159375000005,"end":437.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.16159375,"end":434.56221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.48596875000004,"end":436.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.67159375000006,"end":436.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.29596875000004,"end":457.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.56846875,"end":449.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.49534375,"end":463.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.51221875000005,"end":457.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.52471875000003,"end":459.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.82346875,"end":486.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.02659375,"end":499.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.74284375,"end":494.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.73346875000004,"end":531.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.4753437500001,"end":538.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.7109687500001,"end":536.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.47846875,"end":547.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.86096875,"end":554.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.05409375,"end":559.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.8259687500001,"end":557.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.57659375,"end":563.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.91784375,"end":564.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.02721875,"end":565.4109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.9084687500001,"end":567.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.97596875,"end":568.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.97159375,"end":569.7478437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.278,"end":7.583,"text":"好 謝主席 我們先請園民會曾主委也請曾主委我先走 謝謝"},{"start":14.983,"end":36.452,"text":"好 主委早先跟你請教一下1月5號這個原住民身份法規定的兩年補正的登記的期限就已經到期了那因為其實有看到說如果這個過去因為單獨監護然後取得身份的族人1月5號之前如果沒有改父或母的這個原住民的姓並列名字的話他的原住民的身份有可能遭到廢止"},{"start":37.785,"end":65.819,"text":"那我擔心的是說全台灣有多少族人因為在1月5號之前來不及或者是他漏掉了沒有去登記去補正那面臨到廢止的風險請問現在有多少的族人面臨到這樣子的問題謝謝委員我們有精準的掌握到大概是4000多個人其實蠻多的那我們也已經通知他們儘早來申辦那2月5日"},{"start":66.772,"end":90.305,"text":"我們還會再次的敦促我們當事人來辦理那我在這裡還是跟委員講即便喪失原住民的身份仍然可以重新取得啦是的我知道可以恢復但我現在問題來了這就是我要請教主委的在廢止到恢復中間有沒有身份中斷而影響他生活各方面權益的問題我在這邊舉幾個例子"},{"start":92.987,"end":116.947,"text":"例如說如果他這個族人他身份中斷了但是他想要考的是2026年上半年的公務員的考試或者是各種升學的考試或者是他要申請的是跟原住民相關的社福的補助會不會因為這個身份的中斷而影響他的加分資格影響他補助的資格等等以上這些生活各個面向"},{"start":118.629,"end":127.17,"text":"更委報告 會 真的會就是說在這段時間剛好有考試或什麼他剛好喪失研究員身份就真的會中斷"},{"start":127.972,"end":150.361,"text":"所以這就是我要問的啦這個因為這樣子的中間有一個空窗期導致他可能很多包括我剛講的社福補助委包括他考試的資格這個加分的這個可能落差來回就非常大那這個對他的生活來說都是非常大的影響所以這4000多個人主委接下來怎麼處理"},{"start":151.36,"end":169.921,"text":"我想我們都有密切來跟他們來做聯繫因為這個當下回復這個原住民生活是很快的你只要去登記馬上就可以回復所以我們現在我們不管是我們的同仁也要我們也拜託縣市的一些相關的原住民處還有附贈書所內政部的附贈書所"},{"start":173.147,"end":189.632,"text":"趕快來通知我們會上司這個原住民生活的這些主任我們盡全力來寫好這個要拜託主委因為我們當初立這個新的法就是其實並不用意並不是說要讓他失去這一些資格的廢紙"},{"start":190.512,"end":205.455,"text":"而是希望他們可以並列他們的族名然後來重新彰顯族群的平等嘛這是我們當時的精神那在這邊我也要提醒主委一件事情我最近看到兩個例子一個是2024年底台中市北區有一個"},{"start":205.996,"end":228.044,"text":"泰雅族的族人他想要為新生兒來登記他的族名結果承辦人員說他的族名不在族譜名譜上面就拒絕他了那當事人他的說法是說他想要融合泰雅族跟布農族的奶奶的文化的意涵然後把他的拼寫是有融合在一起的結果承辦人員就刁難他就說這個不是泰雅族的名字"},{"start":228.524,"end":249.684,"text":"所以就被拒絕了另外一個例子是去年的年底有一個賽德克族的人也是去護鎮要辦這個族名的表列然後結果承辦人員也是拿著手冊翻啊翻說你這個名字有沒有拼錯啊然後說他的手冊上面沒有賽德克族的這個參考所以百般的刁難這位賽德克族的族人喔"},{"start":250.405,"end":265.243,"text":"所以我在這邊要講的是既然我們希望彰顯他們的使用的名字是可以尊重他們這個族群本身那結果承辦人員他們好不容易說對我很願意去把我的族名表列在上面結果承辦人員百般的刁難"},{"start":266.237,"end":290.009,"text":"我跟委員報告這其實是戶政事務所人誤會了原住民的這個傳統名字不是只有列在那個族族的參謀所以剛好藉這個今天我們內政部也在這邊也拜託部長然後跟我們原民會回去可以做橫向的溝通讓我們第一線各縣市的戶政在遇到這件事情的時候不要去刁難族人的族民表列"},{"start":290.609,"end":295.192,"text":"好我們會持續來辦這個訓練好謝謝主委那最後一點時間我們請內政部劉部長我在這邊簡單的提一下那我還是認為蓋設宅跟這個包租代管跟租金補貼是沒有衝突的"},{"start":306.92,"end":330.221,"text":"所以我也希望說在補足這個蓋設宅很慢的這個漫長的過程當中我們用包租代管的方式可以儘速的進到市場來增加這個空餘屋提供給租屋主的這個數量所以這三管齊下我認為是並行的而不是說做了這個就不做那個這個是我希望 委員您講的非常正確我們就是朝這個三軌齊進一起來處理"},{"start":332.723,"end":358.548,"text":"對所以最後呢我想要跟部長提醒一下因為其實包租代管已經上路近10年嘛那目前也努力的清出了大概10.48萬戶這樣子的數量但是呢目前手上的工具到底夠不夠因為就部長的盤點我們目前未來的目標是希望再把這個91萬戶裡面再找出37萬戶不是不是我想不是"},{"start":358.928,"end":382.487,"text":"就是我們從北北桃中裡面找出現在低度利用的空餘屋就是精準的部分是在這個地方是37.5萬但是未來達成數目不會是這個數目大概譬如說可能以1萬2萬3萬慢慢往上升是這樣子的方式沒有那麼快但是包租代管業者現在的這個增加的數目是非常的快已經有達到131家"},{"start":384.288,"end":406.498,"text":"對那這就是我要講這也是我每次都一定會提醒的就是到底誘因是什麼因為像之前我們在討論說是不是他們的這個租他們給他們有足夠的稅負的減免啊然後其他方面有各式各樣的誘因讓他們願意進到包租代管的市場可是目前看起來我擔心的是這樣的速度並不夠快"},{"start":407.699,"end":437.098,"text":"我們會來精進包括委員提的建議案如果在財稅的負擔上面不管是用這個棍子或者蘿蔔我們可以齊齊頭併進因為我們也不希望太多空餘屋然後還來就是說這個房子他要不要進入修繕補貼的方式因為那個委員非常重視的像老宅延壽的部分也許我們也可以把他納到裡面去因為老宅延壽本來就是針對這個房屋要很健康才可以提供給包租貸款業者來使用"},{"start":438.299,"end":463.335,"text":"對謝謝謝謝部長說明那我覺得對年輕人來說其實就是要現在馬上可以入住夠方便最好在市中心又夠便宜品質又夠好這個才是對年輕人最直接的幫助所以這三關情下如果可以最快速達到這個目標的對年輕人來說我就是馬上在市中心可以入住就學就業都方便所以就是包租代管沒錯目前看起來也是像桃園新北的速度非常的快增加的速度非常的快"},{"start":463.935,"end":485.577,"text":"對那我希望這個就要必須要加速啦趕快請這些空餘物最好這37萬戶都釋出來是最好啦那最後一個小提醒喔這個租金補貼最近我接到很多的陳情啦就是說因為之前的條件太不設限了然後審查過寬了或者是說審查太簡便了導致說現在在跟民眾追討這個租金的補貼"},{"start":487.125,"end":502.219,"text":"所以現在還是有接到一些民怨啦就是說租金補貼的用意很好那你們當初條件就設好那審查的不要說出審到後面複審最後又要跟你把租金補貼要回來是 報告委員我們是跟地方政委一起來合作"},{"start":502.899,"end":531.145,"text":"那地方政府在處理的過程當中也許他們的考量跟中央不一樣那中央的話會透過這個財產總歸戶或稅務總歸戶的方式或者是他有沒有真正在住在那個房子裡面所以事實上會有所謂的議領有的時候是時間差那議領的部分呢我們也可以採取說如果他現在的經濟負擔沒有那麼快的話會用這個分期付款的方式來處理那全國的議領數量大概是1.3%左右這個部分呢我們還是可以跟地方政府一起來合作"},{"start":532.787,"end":547.123,"text":"這個當然我知道這個有一些行政上的落差但是我還是希望如果接下來要精進的話不要你們就第一時間把條件都設好跟地方也都講好民眾怎麼樣的條件可以領不要說到之後他他根本就不知道他一領"},{"start":547.924,"end":563.518,"text":"因為有時候跟房東沒有提供這些他的可能是他的租屋的證明等等的有的時候是他身份自己改變譬如說他有自己的房子或者他已經不是學生等等這些所以這個真的要拜託希望這下不要再發生我們會跟地方政府一起來精進好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝黃婕委員的質詢"}]}},{"id":"167155","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167155","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851f552f1a5ce8d64da75d69df13e4e8eda247638a9beb78aaba488f48b86ec085f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"09:50:05 - 10:00:10","影片長度":"00:10:05","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:50:05+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:00:10+08:00","duration":605,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.81909375,"end":10.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.25721875,"end":11.185343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.16346875,"end":16.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.05784375,"end":17.445968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.340343750000002,"end":20.027843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.88846875,"end":21.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.356593750000002,"end":23.453468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.06096875,"end":25.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.47409375,"end":27.942218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.364093750000002,"end":31.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.49846875,"end":34.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.48534375,"end":37.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.44284375,"end":38.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.400343750000005,"end":40.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.10471875,"end":41.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.60659375,"end":45.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.711593750000006,"end":48.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.83346875,"end":49.727843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.79534375,"end":50.909093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.70221875,"end":55.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.70159375,"end":57.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.760343750000004,"end":59.329718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.291593750000004,"end":62.164718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.94096875,"end":64.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.83096875000001,"end":67.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.42971875,"end":68.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.38721875,"end":70.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.09159375,"end":72.47534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.04909375,"end":74.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.12471875,"end":77.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.28034375,"end":79.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.86659375,"end":81.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.73971875000001,"end":82.16159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.66784375,"end":86.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.30846875,"end":88.45596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.23221875,"end":90.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.29096875,"end":92.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.31596875000001,"end":95.40846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.91471875,"end":96.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.31534375000001,"end":97.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.07471875,"end":100.04909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.65659375000001,"end":103.67721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.06534375000001,"end":105.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.63471875,"end":107.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.38971875,"end":110.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.62971875000001,"end":112.30034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.82346875,"end":116.26596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.82284375,"end":118.44284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.05034375000001,"end":120.28221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.88971875000001,"end":124.34909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.83846875,"end":128.88846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.68159375000002,"end":130.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.72784375,"end":131.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.06096875,"end":134.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.74409375000002,"end":136.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.24159375000002,"end":138.08534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.55784375000002,"end":139.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.84034375000002,"end":143.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.60346875000002,"end":145.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.71284375000002,"end":148.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.76721875,"end":150.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.73721875,"end":153.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.30659375000002,"end":154.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.19659375,"end":156.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.85034375,"end":158.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.92596875,"end":161.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.86221875,"end":163.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.73534375,"end":166.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.44784375,"end":169.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.89471875,"end":172.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.49346875,"end":174.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.34534375,"end":177.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.82159375,"end":180.34034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.98159375,"end":186.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.58409375000002,"end":188.64284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.94659375,"end":192.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.70971875,"end":195.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.05096875,"end":197.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.46846875,"end":198.76784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.42596875,"end":201.31596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.58596875,"end":202.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.17221875,"end":204.23534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.79221875000002,"end":207.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.88034375,"end":210.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.01909375000002,"end":213.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.68534375000002,"end":218.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.00096875000003,"end":224.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.05909375000002,"end":228.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.91909375,"end":231.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.48409375000003,"end":236.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.53409375,"end":238.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.91346875000002,"end":240.09471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.68534375000002,"end":241.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.86659375000002,"end":243.19971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.58784375000002,"end":245.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.56221875000003,"end":247.68846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.44784375,"end":263.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.05721875,"end":267.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.58409375,"end":269.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.30096875000004,"end":271.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.22909375,"end":272.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.79846875000004,"end":273.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.94596875,"end":274.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.51534375,"end":275.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.40971875,"end":277.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.94534375,"end":281.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.62409375000004,"end":301.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.24221875,"end":295.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.32659375000003,"end":295.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.39409375,"end":295.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.10659375,"end":299.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.99221875,"end":310.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.22784375000003,"end":306.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.21034375,"end":315.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.74534375,"end":317.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.63971875000004,"end":316.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.74096875000004,"end":316.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.24721875,"end":322.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.41096875,"end":322.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.42784375,"end":323.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.15346875,"end":330.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.23659375,"end":335.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.46784375000004,"end":341.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.91846875000005,"end":343.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.85909375,"end":349.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.13659375000003,"end":358.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.44034375,"end":350.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.48159375,"end":357.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.13971875000004,"end":357.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.20284375,"end":358.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.31659375000004,"end":364.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.22346875,"end":361.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.44659375000003,"end":364.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.96971875,"end":365.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.57721875000004,"end":368.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.66534375000003,"end":383.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.34659375,"end":385.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.08034375,"end":391.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.17221875,"end":393.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.43346875000003,"end":396.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.04909375,"end":398.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.90534375000004,"end":399.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.33971875000003,"end":401.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.01034375,"end":402.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.30971875,"end":412.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.41784375000003,"end":416.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.13034375,"end":421.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.75409375000004,"end":423.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.74534375,"end":424.47096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.67346875000004,"end":426.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.69846875,"end":427.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.33534375000005,"end":429.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.15784375000004,"end":431.67659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.58346875,"end":435.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.40596875000006,"end":435.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.76034375,"end":438.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.08471875000004,"end":446.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.98221875,"end":449.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.66534375000003,"end":454.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.72784375000003,"end":454.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.93034375,"end":455.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.97659375,"end":456.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.02721875000003,"end":456.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.41534375000003,"end":462.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.18221875,"end":465.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.19034375,"end":465.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.35909375000006,"end":466.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.94534375,"end":467.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.97471875,"end":468.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.98721875,"end":469.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.57784375000006,"end":470.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.26971875000004,"end":470.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.62409375000004,"end":472.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.78409375,"end":479.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.50034375,"end":479.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.88846875,"end":480.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.05284375,"end":482.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.77409375,"end":486.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.87471875000006,"end":487.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.00534375,"end":491.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.93721875000006,"end":492.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.55721875,"end":495.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.97034375000004,"end":497.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.04596875000004,"end":499.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.63221875000005,"end":500.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.35346875000005,"end":503.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.49659375000005,"end":504.62721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.89721875000004,"end":508.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.82909375,"end":509.23409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.28471875,"end":519.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.22534375000004,"end":511.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.9578437499999,"end":522.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.97034375,"end":523.0209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.0209687500001,"end":523.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.79721875,"end":523.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.94909375,"end":523.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.98284375,"end":523.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.99971875,"end":524.3372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.0334687500001,"end":524.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.77596875,"end":525.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.11346875,"end":525.1472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.9740937500001,"end":526.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.9697187500001,"end":527.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.22284375,"end":527.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":527.9653437500001,"end":528.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.00721875,"end":531.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.0747187500001,"end":543.7097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.0347187500001,"end":543.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.0515937499999,"end":543.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.7097187500001,"end":543.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.1315937500001,"end":544.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.2747187500001,"end":546.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.4053437499999,"end":548.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.82284375,"end":549.9028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.3078437500001,"end":553.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.49721875,"end":553.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.78409375,"end":555.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.5053437500001,"end":557.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.83409375,"end":561.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.7322187500001,"end":562.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.23409375,"end":564.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.00596875,"end":565.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.9678437499999,"end":566.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.3559687500001,"end":566.6428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.6428437500001,"end":568.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.9128437500001,"end":569.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.6003437500001,"end":569.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.08534375,"end":574.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.07659375,"end":572.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.74284375,"end":574.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.75971875,"end":575.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.9622187500001,"end":575.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.9578437499999,"end":577.3584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.56096875,"end":578.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.97846875,"end":580.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.95284375,"end":581.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.20596875,"end":584.9184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.71159375,"end":593.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.0522187500001,"end":593.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.13659375,"end":593.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.15346875,"end":595.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.17034375,"end":593.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.2547187499999,"end":593.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.30534375,"end":593.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.97159375,"end":597.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.94596875,"end":600.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.6965937500001,"end":601.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.6922187499999,"end":602.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.2322187500001,"end":602.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.26596875,"end":603.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.28284375,"end":602.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.5690937500001,"end":607.07534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.836,"end":10.879,"text":"主席我們家組織中心花董事長請花董事長召會長董事長在這裡說到社會住宅我會去我剛才在7月7日來到台北開會中央開會的時候剛才你以前做法事"},{"start":36.046,"end":61.874,"text":"在這個規定當中 我也要感謝你給嘉義市的機會因為中央有這個政策 嘉義市有可能去社會住宅因為每一間市的訴求 當中是不同的你知道嘉義市是一個小兒媒"},{"start":62.97,"end":66.671,"text":"好大的地方 但是他沒有代表他的家那些人他沒有代表他的工作所以在這個過程 我覺得有擔當的重點就是覺得說 我們的政策說 但是每一個人的訴求不一樣改改這個"},{"start":89.281,"end":103.007,"text":"我們就要改善像我們有時候跟我們的部長說的時候部長說 啊 因為嘉義市跟很多縣市的大都市都沒有工這我可以接受喔所以在這個過程當中他說要新建的是不是可以有工廠出來"},{"start":117.386,"end":138.932,"text":"包租貸款但今天我身為嘉義市的民意代表我就先跟你說嘉義市的需要就對了因為嘉義市有安寮好市有中好市博愛第一"},{"start":139.895,"end":147.978,"text":"我愛安居在這三地的當中 重聽五百號若沒有我們中央的政策 我相信我們將會遺棄若沒有這三地的社會住宅可以幫助年輕人的訴求和弱勢的訴求"},{"start":161.904,"end":165.627,"text":"在這幾天來看到中央給他一次機會但是在這幾天北省比較給我的心還是比較給我們付出說你們的政策還在變啊我說是怎麼說"},{"start":181.121,"end":185.666,"text":"他說跟你們說要去社會住宅 到現在說這麼多是要自己去 也要自己去 市政府的努力在日升安市那裡 有一個主來追尋的他在那裡 市政府也很快會開業了"},{"start":204.844,"end":211.968,"text":"在這裡我要請教我們當事長有的外面的風聲不然說得怎麼像有的我們是要挑戰每一官司的訴求不一樣我已經說三次了每一官司的需要不一樣所以第二次我告訴你那個"},{"start":229.986,"end":237.93,"text":"是不是你如果討論 也要去討論對與對因為最重要的 加二次沒有這個 我就跟你說過沒有抗爭在那裡"},{"start":245.675,"end":252.598,"text":"所以 董事長 你是不是跟我討論 現在我說的那個 未來要怎麼做因為我相信 如果經過加二次也好 加二次鄉親也好年紀去加二次 吃頭肉也好都有看到我們社會住宅 漸漸的 一定會完成所以 董事長 拜託 讓我拜託一下"},{"start":275.58,"end":286.866,"text":"那日升街那塊要如何處理來回答一下感謝委員對我們租賂中心跟我們社財政策一直的支持我們現在過去期我們現在有安寮有中和博愛其實我先跟委員報告安寮好市今年就會遭遇氣候 今年的氣候就遭遇差不多第四季就開始會公告遭遇 當然"},{"start":302.582,"end":314.91,"text":"委員一直在說啦 我們現在日新安居啦 別的住來住 住來住像旁邊這樣 日新安居其實 瑞敬坡現在應該也是繼續在那幾個地方 不說放棄 現在沒有了這樣當時在你說的就是跟外面所有環奧的所擔一位是不一樣不是中央放棄說不去社會住宅喔 是每個縣市有的 沒關係"},{"start":331.101,"end":333.702,"text":"會想說年輕人還可以有家庭長大跟他家的管子不一樣 有他家的空間很多他可以包住大館 但是家裡一定要有社會住宅對家裡來說80人那麼多是啦 現在我們按理好是今年第四季開始遭遇"},{"start":354.264,"end":357.109,"text":"我們不用看姓姓的狀況 因為姓姓很少現在提早的時間我們可以重新安排"},{"start":366.346,"end":374.189,"text":"在這裡這樣就是當時聽說這個日升街不是沒辦法去是我們這個地市區的寮屋看招租的經驗給我們一百分比起政府也是很有價值的價值是不是這樣 是嘛再來 因為那個咖咪位就是說實在啦我們的北省 我們的年輕街 我們的弱勢"},{"start":394.485,"end":395.573,"text":"要去經家去照顧啦"},{"start":397.099,"end":408.224,"text":"因為有時候說要補助他的出水我們說實在我們這也是說你沒關係在這個地方有時候一天兩天你在台北上班不一定兩天後在其他地方去上班他就不一樣的訴求不一樣的需要在這裡我也問問當時在台北本市說的"},{"start":426.853,"end":431.434,"text":"再來邀請一位來 請尹主委主委在這本省這時候時間要到了我要跟你說我們這個內槍安全的訓練是在12月底的時候我們定期將近要到7500"},{"start":450.202,"end":455.474,"text":"500多人差不多有4500人左右有嘛在有的當中你們在正當"},{"start":460.5,"end":472.044,"text":"安全受訓的時候有五十個五十個去啦九十八個拿到受訓過的啦在這個過程當中主委我是不是要跟你說你若看有四五千人有雷槍在正當的時候有雷槍跟有訓練過也是抓到遭毀去"},{"start":490.421,"end":508.466,"text":"讓他的東方大大事所以這個訓練非常重要平常是我們的專業因為你們說的我們說的是訓練安全 訓練有多少錢你知道嗎 主委是到現在還沒過啦那我覺得這個錢對於全住民來說是非常重要那你知道訓練裡面的錢有多少嗎"},{"start":521.991,"end":522.591,"text":"大概70萬 主委"},{"start":547.795,"end":552.779,"text":"在這裡面有這件事要好好訓練 好好去用因為我願望 不能夠發生這個問題我們應該要鼓勵所有有內疚的人 都出來訓練自己"},{"start":567.182,"end":568.843,"text":"我們要擴大訓練主委這是重點啦 要擴大訓練啦因為有四千五人 有肌肉有腸的有內腸的 所以你說的要擴大訓練"},{"start":586.188,"end":602.479,"text":"對啦 說實在開這樓錢也沒差我們也不要讓這樓遺憾再來發生不然那時候我們想法是本市的最大意願就是這列車管制的問題以上謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167163","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167163","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851a2ee77e4b924cca1c02888e1e08ec371247638a9beb78aab7b98ec381cd5a4705ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"11:16:54 - 11:33:36","影片長度":"00:16:42","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T11:16:54+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T11:33:36+08:00","duration":1002,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.6722187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.388468750000001,"end":9.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.852218750000002,"end":10.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.64846875,"end":18.137843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.57659375,"end":19.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.84221875,"end":129.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.89221875,"end":136.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.20846875,"end":133.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.68471875,"end":138.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.72659375,"end":140.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.81096875,"end":139.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.34659375,"end":193.70534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.81346875,"end":150.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.84034375000002,"end":218.98409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.08534375000002,"end":226.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.66596875000002,"end":232.14659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.51784375000003,"end":240.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.90471875000003,"end":247.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.26659375000003,"end":252.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.24471875,"end":253.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.94909375,"end":288.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.82971875000004,"end":293.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.75721875,"end":302.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.63784375,"end":302.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.59971875,"end":314.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.52159375,"end":330.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.39721875000004,"end":386.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.80596875000003,"end":397.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.50471875000005,"end":417.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.84346875,"end":430.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.42471875,"end":423.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.55971875,"end":423.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.40346875,"end":424.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.57221875000005,"end":424.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.62284375,"end":424.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.02784375000005,"end":425.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.11971875,"end":432.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.84096875,"end":442.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.63284375,"end":444.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.02909375,"end":445.53096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.15971875,"end":445.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.76721875000004,"end":553.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.9865937500001,"end":561.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.95159375,"end":562.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.4197187500001,"end":569.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.1528437500001,"end":591.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.5672187499999,"end":609.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.92034375,"end":601.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.70034375,"end":604.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.4384687500001,"end":606.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":608.8134687500001,"end":652.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.72471875,"end":611.1084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.4153437500001,"end":618.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.74846875,"end":621.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.81409375,"end":633.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.4140937500001,"end":656.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.56971875,"end":658.7465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.96596875,"end":660.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.95721875,"end":713.0165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.0378437500001,"end":755.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.0647187500001,"end":759.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.9797187500001,"end":768.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.9740937500001,"end":786.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.67596875,"end":796.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":797.8640937500002,"end":806.4365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":806.8078437500001,"end":807.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":808.15784375,"end":824.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":824.35784375,"end":832.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":832.7109687500001,"end":838.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":838.65096875,"end":922.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":914.08221875,"end":914.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":914.16659375,"end":914.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":923.5322187500001,"end":928.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":928.7634687500001,"end":940.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":940.1540937500001,"end":964.3359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":943.1072187500001,"end":943.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":958.09221875,"end":958.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":959.6615937500001,"end":960.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":963.8803437500001,"end":974.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":974.9165937500002,"end":987.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":986.2565937500001,"end":988.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":987.75846875,"end":988.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":988.3828437500001,"end":999.0984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":999.0478437500001,"end":1001.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1000.1615937500001,"end":1001.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1002.0347187500001,"end":1003.04721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.692,"end":9.933,"text":"質詢謝主席請鄭部長有請鄭部長委員好"},{"start":18.592,"end":40.103,"text":"部長好 其實在本席進行質詢之前我還是要針對今天排定這個專報有發表一些我的看法今天的專報其實原定是那個劉昭偉原定在去年的11月27號排第一次排審的時候呢當時教文的委員就有表示說因為才劃法的影響希望教育部這邊能夠跟很完善的先跟地方做充分的溝通"},{"start":40.723,"end":55.882,"text":"那在12月24号第二次主条的时候呢降文的委员们还是一样也针对在人力啊设备经费等相关的配置呢要求地方政府跟我们我们必须要跟地方政府有共识之后来进行专报然后择其再审查"},{"start":56.443,"end":74.495,"text":"那从12月24号到今天1月19号我不太确定说这两个礼拜三个礼拜的时间教育部是不是已经跟地方政府有共识了那如果今天的专报我们要聚焦在经费的分配跟权责的划分觉得说那实在也没有什么实质讨论的进展以及效益"},{"start":74.955,"end":99.811,"text":"但我尊重說劉昭偉的排案權也希望教育部等一下就是好好的說明一下這兩週實際上跟地方政府在經費跟權責你們有怎樣的共識的進展那首先我們先來關心營養午餐經費權責如何分配才能夠保障學生的權益這兩天很熱烈的在討論的就是台北市他有提出免費的營養午餐之後後續有許多縣市都跟進了"},{"start":100.211,"end":129.537,"text":"那目前有20個縣市總共有20個縣市會來推營養午餐免費以前是有10個縣市那在這幾天跟進了之後已經來到20個縣市那這個部分本席相信教育部的態度應該就是說尊重地方自治營養午餐就是屬於地方自治的項目首先本席先請教那麼今年教育部115年會在針對之前補助營養午餐相關的這個項目會還是一樣會補助給地方政府嗎"},{"start":131.926,"end":150.668,"text":"基本上根文報告已經這些錢就是等於都直接撥到這個地方所以我們大概在所以你應該就是說以115年度教育部所編的預算這個部分不在教育部直接給教育單位的補助是在統籌款裡面"},{"start":152.33,"end":167.266,"text":"所以說如果不是像以前一樣是直接補助給教育局處的話多數的地方政府還是可以推免費的營養午餐表示呢現行的這個營養午餐的這個要求的相關的規範地方是有能力有餘裕來執行來負擔的"},{"start":169.048,"end":193.508,"text":"那如果说未来才化法施行地方政府的裁员更增加应该也会有更多的预算来进行相关的这些配置那所以本席认为说教育部你们就做好原则性的规范跟制定相关的标准我们来把关品质跟食材的安全让地方政府可以依循然后也让他们有因地制宜的空间这个部长您觉得呢"},{"start":193.928,"end":218.767,"text":"是我想謝謝委員這個的提醒我們確實是如同委員所提的我們就是在朝那個方向在這個建立規範包含專業的提供包含確保這個三商EQ各地方縣市政府能夠落實然後以及在整個食安裡邊我們也會定期的去查核然後做資訊的一些揭露"},{"start":219.147,"end":226.404,"text":"好 那第二個我想請問教育部最近一次與地方政府針對營養午餐召開會議是在什麼時候"},{"start":229.687,"end":251.649,"text":"跟委員報告在上週大概我們剛才委員問到三個單位那當時有答應委員會我們分別都有進行包含營養師全聯會包含地方政府包含統餐供應業者跟餐廚供應業者三個單位我們都在那有沒有什麼達成針對這些經費有沒有怎樣的共識"},{"start":252.55,"end":278.021,"text":"地方政府的部分对于人事经费的部分我们三项都分别谈分别谈大体上的确还是在虽然他们有一些统筹的经费但仍然希望教育部能够对局处这个层次了解之后给他们在预算上能够显示回编到114等等对业者的部分希望在未来的厨余的处理"},{"start":278.681,"end":300.24,"text":"或是相關的未來免費之後的品質大家希望能夠有一個共識跟營養的基準跟要求品質的做法那跟營養師全聯會的部分剛剛有提到比例之外也關注到公辦公營之外能不能未來逐年有一些計畫包含太小的學校怎麼樣聯合共參"},{"start":302.682,"end":314.37,"text":"那么就是针对这三个部分我们有大概的去谈那刚刚讲到了县市他们是支持营养师的人力的配置但是这个经费市市也是希望是中央来移住"},{"start":316.667,"end":332.234,"text":"這一點的部分550基本上大家沒有特別的不同的意見但是經費上的確這就是如去年跟委員報告的還需要繼續來所以說以縣市的看法的態度來講他們對經費上我們"},{"start":334.975,"end":357.961,"text":"等於是跟教育部現在是沒有一個共識的交集就是覺得說人力配置是需要的但是經費他還是希望教育部來出那第三個部分我想提到的是現有的規範包含三張EQ的部分鼓勵使用國產食材國產豬肉這些相關的規範都是持續的運作而且也是作為教育部來考核辦理營養午餐的基準"},{"start":358.661,"end":383.741,"text":"那目前呢地方縣市呢符合相關規定規範都繼續在辦理所以本席有點不能理解為什麼不能等才化法確定事實之後再來進行相關經費的討論那未來經費就是都給地方之後教育部我們會不會針對就是地方營養午餐來辦理相關的這個獎勵機制就是說他們辦理的這個狀況我們有個獎勵的機制我們這個機制會如何運作"},{"start":387.383,"end":414.193,"text":"謝謝委員的這個指導我們確實也朝那個方向就是說未來這個地方自治的一個權限這個營養午餐回到地方嘛那我們怎麼樣透過監督透過專業的協助透過資訊的揭露然後能夠去理清表揚好的一個縣市我們確實會朝那個獎勵的一個方向提供一些相對的一些這個經費來協助地方"},{"start":416.394,"end":430.255,"text":"所以教育部现在就是如同我刚刚所询问的这个你会有一个相关的一个奖励的机制在他们办理营养午餐这个部分那那个比较详细的办法你们现在还没有演绎出来还在讨论中"},{"start":431.267,"end":452.05,"text":"这个部长在上上周就有交代那我们会在一个月内有一个草案给部长那届时也看部长在怎么样跟委员做一个沟通如果有相关的进度也希望给我们叫我们委员会那最后我要强调就是说我们都支持营养午餐一定要有一个专法来处理但是因为目前才化法还没有"},{"start":453.171,"end":467.921,"text":"定下就是相关的大家对这个有共识而且现在现有的规范是持续在运作的所以我觉得我们应该等财劃法确定的事情之后再来做相关经费跟权责的讨论才能够比较确实的审查"},{"start":468.721,"end":489.431,"text":"那之前本席再質詢的時候就問過我們要怎樣去監督或是規定地方政府要將預算有多少的比例用在教育經費從不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子這個大家都一直在強調但我們擔心就是說才化法施行之後理論上地方政府會得到這個經費的挹注"},{"start":490.612,"end":515.709,"text":"但是這個經費是不是確實的用在教育的項目所以現在很多地方的局處長會擔心以前是很明確的由教育部來補助給教育局處的這些經費未來統籌給了縣市之後他們也不知道自己的局處能夠分到多少經費在教育的項目那會不會因為縣府有其他的規劃其他項目排擠到教育的預算"},{"start":516.209,"end":538.36,"text":"所以这个是大家其实包括家长都非常的担心我们不只是担心营养午餐还有我们很多学校相关的我们一些设施设备要改善的项目那这个部分呢希望教育部也是可以针对地方的这些项目给予一定程度的建议就是说你们要有多少的比例的预算用在教育的经费"},{"start":538.72,"end":552.565,"text":"而且我希望說如果未來有相關競爭型計畫或是獎勵的機制我們應該將地方政府分配給教育預算的比例納入審核的項目部長您覺得"},{"start":554.562,"end":569.493,"text":"謝謝委員確實委員這一個看到了我們怎麼樣去確保品質一個非常好的一個方向我們確實也會就像剛才我在跟其他委員報告就是我們331Q我們在15年我們會去查"},{"start":570.293,"end":590.932,"text":"去檢視22個地方縣市他在331Q裡面是不是跟114年所編的預算一樣我們因應當時財務法從去年開始我們就跟地方教育局處所長也希望他們知道說當每一年我們中央補助給地方的當這個統籌分配款直接改為整筆到地方那"},{"start":591.733,"end":621.19,"text":"县市首长当然有他的城市发展施政的一些方向跟重点但是我们也希望教育的这个经费能够要一定的要还是要框在教育局而不是因为这样所以我们会透过考核检视的一个机制去除了说建议我们希望说他保留一定的比例在教育这方面的之外呢除了刚刚讲营养午餐还有一些学校相关的设施设备是需要更新的改善的那都是我们在未来建设"},{"start":622.091,"end":639.191,"text":"這個我會希望說我們是建議說我們要把地方政府他分配給教育局處相關單位這個經費的比例我們要納入是一個審核的項目之一這個請教育部可以審做那接下來我要跟您談到就是關於校式會議這個辦法修正的部分"},{"start":640.012,"end":652.466,"text":"那有教师团体是很强烈的诉求表达强烈的诉求他们在1月25号会到教育部前面来抗议要求废除校师会议我想知道教育部你们目前的态度跟立场是什么"},{"start":653.459,"end":676.712,"text":"我想謝謝委員的一個指導校制會議在108年定定這個辦法本來我們原來的一個制度就是有一個校教評會但是後來因為在當時的時空裡邊校園這個發生了一些特定的事件所以有更多的人會期待說是不是能夠讓"},{"start":677.873,"end":689.183,"text":"一方面不要影響到學校的正常的一個教學但是對那些不適合老師有一個校事會議能夠專門的客觀的團體來客觀的人專業團這個人員來協助學校解決這個問題"},{"start":693.366,"end":711.682,"text":"但是我们从去年所看到的这么一整年里边确实有如同这个教师团体提到的小案大办原来学校老师只是一个班级经营上的疏漏他事实上可以经过提醒那就改善了结果也都大小事都"},{"start":712.382,"end":732.899,"text":"所以其实部长您很了解说在现场在我们学校里面发生的这样子的现况那其实一个办法的起因一定是有缘由我们当初的初中是为了协助但是到现在变成是一种困扰是一种干扰甚至是对教师是一种伤害的时候我们就必须要做修正"},{"start":733.419,"end":758.42,"text":"那在校士會議的辦法修正公布之前教育部有告訴本席就說你們有多次跟教師團體家長團體教育團體縣市政府以及現場的教師們溝通那我想知道說你們這個溝通大概是一個怎樣的狀況是不是大部分的團體都有支持四次修正的版本嗎我想跟我們報告民主法治的一個社會當然"},{"start":760.051,"end":785.701,"text":"有部分的一些團體或者人員他希望一次到位釜底抽薪就是把整個校士會廢除掉或者這裡邊談到說這一個有受到冤枉的這一些權利權利怎麼樣去恢復這個確實第一個我們要考量所有來自於臺灣的各個不同的團體包含怎麼去確保"},{"start":787.441,"end":805.627,"text":"這個兒少的一個權益包含怎麼去兼顧這一個教老師的一個專業的一個教學我想這一個我們以現階段來講我只能講目標大家是一樣的能夠回顧到由學校校教評會來處理這一個事情但是以現階段我們權衡"},{"start":808.286,"end":831.944,"text":"社会的一个各个不同的团体的一个声音那我们做了这样一个这个现有的这个1月12号公布的一个调这个修正这个办法当然没有办法一步到位我非常我感到抱歉但是它可能是目前我们在逐渐迈向亲事合作回悟到校园有一个更"},{"start":832.825,"end":838.468,"text":"友善的更好的一个教学学习的一个环境这是我们必须要努力的"},{"start":839.097,"end":862.024,"text":"謝謝部長 本期也理解到我們教育部的難處啦其實你需要整合不同團體的意見來研擬這個政策那我想這次修正的方向呢其實比較多的團體是支持所謂的潛移預防機制跟匿名原則不受理這個方向那也有很多團體堅持就說也有團體堅持說要廢除校事會議所以基本上你要說有共識"},{"start":862.964,"end":887.495,"text":"是很难但是就是说如何兼顾大家的意见来纳入之后能去检讨出一个就是比较大家可以接受的这个方向那这边我要提醒教育部其实我们应该持续的追踪来就是说关于我们这个办法修正之后校师会议对教师造成的影响必须有个检讨的机制公布修正之后"},{"start":888.415,"end":914.834,"text":"跟修正前當然一定會有一些改善但是這個程度到底符不符合現場就是教師的需求那剛才我有聽您回覆雅玲委員說說你們在一個月會有一個進度那所以這個部分也是督促你們應該盡快的研議就是說教師被冤枉平反後的相關補償的方案因為這個不只是他們權益還有他們的名譽"},{"start":915.815,"end":940.127,"text":"這個部分教師都非常的重視那你剛才回覆的是說一個月會有進度可以報告這一個進度一個月就是說跟委員報告但是當然進度裡面我們會希望當然如果有好的結果當然這是大家所期待的但是如果沒有就是說至少我們會把那個進度階段性的進度跟委員做這樣一個"},{"start":940.287,"end":964.567,"text":"是那现在就是持续的跟各团体沟通那我们也持续的来修正到底这个修正的办法有没有适切的符合现场的需求之后呢我们就是持续的来检讨那你们刚刚讲的意思就是说一个月就是会报告到底是进度如何那持续的来将这个能够最好有共识然后最好有进度这个部分呢当然校事会议"},{"start":965.328,"end":974.049,"text":"這一個宣布以後我們會召開公聽會我們會北中南公聽會然後也有一些指導原則然後我們也收集"},{"start":974.98,"end":1001.451,"text":"公布以後所造成的一些現場的一些到底有多大的一些正面的影響或者還創造了一些可能負面的我們都會在這一個學期六月以後要持續的收集相關的意見七八這個暑假就會再從整體再做一個分析我們一定會滾動式的一些修正希望往好的方向也能夠讓老師安心好 謝謝校長謝謝主席家長放心好 謝謝好 謝謝陳學長"}]}},{"id":"167162","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167162","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851918307c527ee4184e1f8a6d37bdd8b89247638a9beb78aab2cfcc21c557743ff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"11:14:42 - 11:32:14","影片長度":"00:17:32","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T11:14:42+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T11:32:14+08:00","duration":1052,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.82721875,"end":9.869093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.37096875,"end":20.770343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.383468750000002,"end":12.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.762843750000002,"end":15.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.85534375,"end":17.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.48784375,"end":20.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.68159375,"end":23.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.17909375,"end":24.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.140968750000003,"end":100.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.96034375,"end":163.44846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.73971875,"end":274.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":274.23284375000003,"end":274.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.24971875,"end":305.67096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.59971875,"end":275.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.26159375000003,"end":309.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.73784375,"end":310.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.61534375,"end":311.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.18471875,"end":401.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":400.99784375,"end":401.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":401.89221875000004,"end":406.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.75659375000004,"end":454.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":455.13284375,"end":533.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.90346875,"end":465.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.36721875,"end":467.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.04534375000003,"end":502.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":533.4834687499999,"end":541.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.3303437500001,"end":541.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.4990937499999,"end":555.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.77534375,"end":655.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":656.0634687500001,"end":731.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.4272187500001,"end":704.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.5265937500001,"end":718.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.94784375,"end":721.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":724.23846875,"end":724.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":734.5828437499999,"end":860.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":763.4053437500002,"end":763.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.59096875,"end":763.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":763.62471875,"end":763.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":860.8584687500002,"end":944.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":944.86221875,"end":986.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":986.8640937500002,"end":1042.7372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1042.3997187500001,"end":1047.6309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1045.28534375,"end":1045.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1046.6353437500002,"end":1048.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1051.47846875,"end":1051.5965937500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.884,"end":29.929,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我要請衛福部林次長還有食藥署江署長還有經濟部的產發署陳副署長一起來討論各位好市長好市長好副署長好今天有三個題目分別來請教三位"},{"start":30.829,"end":52.154,"text":"第一個部分就是有關台美關稅談判的成果還有對我國這個醫療產業發展方向的一個未來跟如何協助整個產業在這方面的發展第二個部分就是我國邁入這個超高齡社會以後要加強這個長者的公費疫苗的接種我們如何能夠讓他做得更好"},{"start":52.694,"end":69.034,"text":"那第三個部分就是藥品無止化的政策應該跟經濟部還有環境部來共同的研商所以第一個部分就要麻煩三位一起來瞭解還有針對於我們台美關稅談判以後如何醫藥發展可以更全面"},{"start":69.514,"end":95.515,"text":"那我相信大家都非常的高興看到我們政府院長這麼努力的談判下來終於可以爭取到非常好的一個結果那台美這個貿易的這個談判最後爭取到就是我國輸往美國的學名藥跟原料藥的關稅是零關稅我相信這個對於整體尤其是藥界來講是非常振奮的一個消息"},{"start":96.616,"end":110.925,"text":"那我們也很期待能夠籌組國家隊來搶攻這個美國的市場那針對這一部分呢其實也有五大的信賴的產業就是包括半導體人工智慧國防科技安全與監控"},{"start":112.546,"end":137.613,"text":"次世代的通訊跟生物科技等產業的台美雙向的投資機制可以透過這樣的方式來建立起來那從蔡總統到賴總統一直希望能夠推動我國生技跟智慧醫療的產業發展能夠打造出台灣的第二座的護國神山因此我國的政府針對製藥生技跟智慧醫療的產業接下來會有哪一些的策略或者是計畫"},{"start":138.673,"end":162.1,"text":"是到美國投資為主呢還是希望能夠也有機會吸引美國相關資本跟技術到台灣來投資那各位麻煩就是針對有一些包括生技的部分就次長那如果是藥物的部分就麻煩署長那同時經濟部如果同步的發展跟協助就麻煩我們的副署長那各位麻煩次長"},{"start":162.94,"end":178.177,"text":"先跟委員報告謝謝委員關心就是說其實我們台灣事實上我們的相關原料藥的產製事實上是很有潛力的那只是過去長期因為市場整個規模的關係所以事實上有被低估那我們剛剛其實在前面很多委員在問的時候我們也在強調我們這次提的那個藥品韌性計畫"},{"start":179.859,"end":205.294,"text":"事實上我們就會盤出很多我們自己國內藥廠有那個潛力可以製造的這些藥品那一部分當然前提是希望能夠讓他們鼓勵他們生產來供國內的使用但是我們自己也持續跟美方在討論就是說甚至包含美國日本其他國家我們在談的事情是供應韌性這件事情不能只靠每個國家自己來自產自銷事實上要互相之間來協助所以有一些藥品如果說有機會的話我們也希望能夠來鼓勵我國的藥廠"},{"start":206.315,"end":228.275,"text":"这些相关的选民药他有机会销到美国因为既然是这样子的状况他也可以协助美国的一些药品比较稳定这个部分先做一个报告那另外的话在这个生技产业的部分那因为包含我们今年再生医疗法已经上已经上路了所以说在再生医疗跟细胞治疗这个部分我们的研发的这个量能跟潜力事实上我相信委员很清楚我们研发量能是很好的我们很多经验跟很多的"},{"start":228.715,"end":243.895,"text":"这一些目前已经在推广的这些药厂生技产业他应该是有机会能够跟全球来做链接那另外还有一个我们的潜能就是我们在AI的发展上面那我们在AI相关智慧医材的部分我们食药署跟CD事实上对于智慧医材相关的这个审核"},{"start":244.315,"end":273.455,"text":"我們從生測會這邊協助食藥署這邊協助我們有越來越多相關的AI醫材的部分來做協助那這個部分他領證之後其實我們目前包含新南向的一代產或者是我們今年在WHO我們去WHO我們今年會有一個智慧醫療展希望能夠藉這個機會讓國際社會能夠看到台灣在AI醫療產業這個部分的潛力跟能量那我們當然站在政府這邊我們不論是食藥署相關的法規或者是在跟其他單位我們全力來做協助那耀平我請署長這邊補充"},{"start":276.696,"end":292.679,"text":"有關於藥品的部分我們藥品的出口過去在我們的不管是原料藥或者是學名藥我們產值其實10億美金左右在整體來講我們覺得還是不足的消亡美國的部分那除了這以外我們對打開我們"},{"start":295.376,"end":308.483,"text":"其他的國家的市場的部分我們是積極的輔導尤其是在這一次的藥物任性的計畫向下我們希望能夠輔導國內的藥品在落地台灣同時能夠做國際的輸出"},{"start":312.265,"end":340.696,"text":"那我们希望在药品的韧性能够打造我们坚实成为美国特别是在学名药原料药的供应链之一那台湾目前的原料药有专门出口的其实我们知道的上百件那相关于我们的学名药的也有数百件那这个已经是有这样的确定了如何让国内的生产源头同时在国内落地跟国际上面能够接轨的部分其实我们特别强调的是"},{"start":341.596,"end":366.011,"text":"在國際組織上面的參與不管是在ICH或者是ICMIA或者是APEC的架構底下我們希望能夠達到的是很中心的所謂調和harmonization在這種調和之下呢進一步的希望能夠對於雙邊的互信之下的所謂的審查互信的審查也能夠達到我們的韌性所以這整個的規劃的像是希望能夠從內部"},{"start":367.492,"end":386.776,"text":"能夠擴展到外部能夠達成整體的供應鏈剛才特別提到的學名藥跟原料藥的零關稅在美國的部分所以在這種前提之下讓雙方的我們的供應鏈尤其藥品的供應鏈能夠互相的因為台灣的原料藥其實品質好相對的它的價格是高的"},{"start":387.136,"end":405.502,"text":"那所以國內國際的特別是國際的大藥廠其實是持續在使用當中如何引導進入我們的藥物供應鏈在國內所以在這次的藥物任性裡面也達到能夠支持讓他能夠永續發展跟經營以上說明好謝謝署長的說明那經濟部也是重責大任"},{"start":407.324,"end":423.964,"text":"我想這一塊的話經濟部一定跟衛福部一起共同來做一個努力那目前的話在那個藥廠相關的一個研發部分的話經濟部這邊會提供所謂的主題性的補助來讓業者這邊持續來做研發"},{"start":424.725,"end":453.838,"text":"那在法規上面的話我們也有相關的一些一些抵檢的一些項目包括生技醫藥的發展條例的話大概針對新藥的話大概有25%可以來做一個抵檢那如果是一般的一些研發的話那這邊我們會透過產創條例第10條也會有15%的一個抵檢所以不管在法規上跟補助投資方面的話我們都會來做一個努力"},{"start":454.719,"end":471.839,"text":"謝謝委員好謝謝我們期待兩個部會共同的來努力那就麻煩署長跟副市長先請回座再過來我請教一下次長有關你這個超高齡社會應該要強化這個公費疫苗雖然這個不一定跟次長的直接管直接這個事務有關聯"},{"start":473.661,"end":492.594,"text":"不過我們也知道我們已經進入到超高齡社會65歲以上長者流感疫苗的接種率就非常重要因為長者萬一有發生流感後面造成的問題是比較嚴重不管是急診或者是重症影響都會非常的明顯"},{"start":493.334,"end":510.76,"text":"那根據2024年的這個記錄裡面我們的流感接種率在65歲以上的長者只有48%我們看到了這個統計呢韓國又第一名我們很羨慕他居然有到82.5%包括超過這個WHO的75%其他國家都還不錯"},{"start":513.021,"end":540.816,"text":"所以針對這部分今年我們還沒有知道說到底有多少長者有沒有更好的這個接種率不過如何來宣導長者對疫苗的信心這個很重要另外如何能夠鼓勵更多的基層醫療院所願意投入相關的這個疫苗施打的工作那衛護也要更努力那不知道衛護目前有沒有規劃或策略如果次長有所自息的話"},{"start":541.556,"end":568.133,"text":"好謝謝委員真的我們台灣的這個流感疫苗的接種先跟委員報告今年的公費疫苗接種率狀況是比去年好很多今年公費的部分幾乎都都已經接種的差不多了那公費這邊民眾接受度還不錯那當然其實就像委員提到的尤其是長者的流感因為既然是高風險我們當然尤其是有很多慢性病共病之下它事實上一旦傳染一旦得到流感它事實上後續的那個中重度的"},{"start":568.873,"end":583.358,"text":"發生病發症的機會很高那不過也真的像剛剛委員所說的我們台灣有一定程度接受疫苗的這個願意接受疫苗但是有一部分其實在疫苗的假消息跟錯假消息錯誤資訊非常的多我想委員一定也遇過"},{"start":584.258,"end":607.683,"text":"那我自己是常常聽到有一些真的是有地方的長輩會講說他真的不能打他慢性病很多不能打我想說你完全講顛倒慢性病很多一定要去接種那這邊我們也非常感謝就是說當然我們在衛福部這邊也希望委員在繼續來支持我們包含在宣導的政策上面因為去年的宣導費用是真的有受到一點影響所以我們能夠宣導的這個資訊比較少但我們盡量想辦法用多元管道去宣導"},{"start":608.303,"end":623.501,"text":"那再来的话当然是说我们在比较多合约院所这边我们相关制度上面让合约院所越来越能够来配合协助来做公费疫苗的施打那当然也谢谢很多地方卫生局他们可能有一些比较大型的施打站那让这个接种能够更方便另外的话"},{"start":623.641,"end":637.437,"text":"也跟委員這邊說明就是說包含了我們在接下來的我們的888計畫裡面慢性病防治裡面888他在慢性病防治的過程中也希望說第一線的醫療人員協助我們因為醫生講的話有時候比政府容易讓人家信任所以讓醫生來講另外"},{"start":639.058,"end":655.489,"text":"在大嘉義計畫裡面我們有把公費疫苗接種的這個接種率有放在大嘉義計畫裡面的一些相關的獎勵所以這裡面還是非常依賴包含第一線的醫療人員還有我們就是村裡裡面的林長 里長幫我們相關的宣傳這個疫苗接種的重要性是"},{"start":656.129,"end":681.983,"text":"的確保護長者在這個流感期間能夠接受完整的疫苗注射真的是非常重要那也謝謝剛剛次長說明大家共同努力也看到了一些成果那我們也知道事實上現在針對這個年長者如果能夠用這所謂的加強型的疫苗他的保護效果可能會更好所以也謝謝我們CDC這邊今年也採購了20萬劑的加強型疫苗"},{"start":682.523,"end":704.202,"text":"可是因為20萬劑其實量相對還是沒那麼足夠所以他是優先提供長照跟安養機構65歲以上的長者來接種我想最重要就是希望能夠減少這個他在內部擴散或者是對長者尤其是如果是在長照機構相對他的風險又是更高"},{"start":705.003,"end":729.877,"text":"是一個很好的方向那如果可行的話將來也可以希望考慮能夠強化高風險還有重大傷病的這些都能夠有機會來做加強性公費疫苗的施打那我們期待這部分我們可以持續的來努力好那謝謝次長那先次長先請回座我來請教一下我們江署長有關你這個藥品無止化這個跨部會研商的部分謝謝次長"},{"start":734.625,"end":750.436,"text":"委員好是署長我想大家都很關心尤其您就任以後希望能夠讓整體在不管醫藥尤其是藥的這些處理的部分可以更進一步的去得到好的一個正向的發展"},{"start":750.936,"end":772.555,"text":"那尤其是有關於這個考慮到整個環境保護跟這個資源的永續所以希望能夠針對這個無紙化尤其是仿單的無紙化能夠開始來推動能夠儘速的去完成這一項的這個政策那我們也了解其實包括早上這個廖瑋祥委員也有提到"},{"start":773.035,"end":791.69,"text":"在這個推動過程裡面我們還是有一些需要再進一步處理的地方包括說五指化將來會不會有這個四大面向的影響第一個就是用藥資訊那個讀取會不會受限尤其有一些身心障礙或高齡者他在這個方面會不會因為有這樣的這個"},{"start":792.911,"end":808.501,"text":"影響而造成它對用藥資訊無法掌握得非常清楚第二個就是會有數位落差的問題大家都很清楚尤其是偏向網路普及性或者是數位產品普及度在不同的階層可能會有這樣的問題"},{"start":809.582,"end":828.241,"text":"那第三個就是如果說訪單帶回去慢慢研讀相對來講即使我們藥師在做服務的時候也會口頭說明可是就很擔心他的完整度不夠那如果把這個屋主要取消當然我們有其他的代替可是會不會增加這個工作的負擔"},{"start":829.002,"end":856.256,"text":"那最後當然就是無紙化意思就是那現在在印刷那些紙可能這個廠家的這些營業啦或者是服務面向可能會受到影響所以這個配套措施如何就非常的重要那我們了解以後也跟陳佩玉委員也跟我們辦公室一起請跟署長一起來討論相關如何能夠把配套措施可以做得更好"},{"start":856.756,"end":879.951,"text":"那這部分不知道目前署長有沒有進一步的規劃謝謝委員的垂詢有關於仿單電子化的部分當然我們希望所謂的elaboring能夠推展可是推展的前提我們現在到年底前是所謂的電子結構化的部分先完成結構化因為結構化之後才能往後一步的所謂的電子化邁進"},{"start":881.512,"end":905.51,"text":"我們現在結構化裡面是非常完整的仿丹但是就臨床的用藥其實我們拿到這藥的時候醫師的處方接下來就是藥師的調劑跟藥師用藥的指導所以這些訊息不單單是在仿丹裡面可以獲得在指導以及調劑的過程中也可以達到一定的功效就像我們拿到藥袋的時候會有特別的說明"},{"start":906.09,"end":933.077,"text":"所以特別提到的剛才提到的用藥資訊的讀取會不會不利身心障礙者所以我們在溝通的場次裡面其實有對於不同的弱勢團體以及聽障 視障等等的所以我們的規劃裡面甚至是多語言的能夠讓他們聽得到能夠去了解或者是閱讀出來除了這以外數位落差的確是我們去考量的一個部分在這個過程當中我們才想說如何去萃取出"},{"start":933.957,"end":951.188,"text":"所謂的完整訪單裡面進一步能夠簡化的讓民眾可以了解這是我們的規劃努力的方向之一那我們了解到的是如果完全訪單沒有了對於藥盒裡面是沒有進一步內容而變成所謂QR Code部分那如果變成"},{"start":952.108,"end":974.947,"text":"基層的藥師 藥事人員要重新去把他抓出來去做這件事情我們也的確發現它的困難性是有所以我們目前持續在溝通還沒有特別的定案的部分我想這部分需要更多的時間去了解因為在結構化的部分其實是在先期的做到後面的完全確實的實施的過程當中其實署內是在研議當中"},{"start":975.908,"end":999.313,"text":"那這個過程中我們特別對職業印刷業我們也跟他們做溝通我們了解整體的確他們是相對弱勢那以現在的藥品的訪單造成他們的困擾也是極大的好 謝謝其實我們在試的研議裡面也希望能夠在一定期程裡面先採行雙軌制希望能夠有機會把紙本還有這個電子結構的內容同步提供"},{"start":999.83,"end":1027.225,"text":"那另外也希望能夠再邀集更多的利害關係人跟團體來溝通政策所以最後其實也希望能夠針對產業升級的部分跟經濟部共同研商那有關無紙化跟環境保護之間的關聯目標等等也能夠有機會跟環境部共同來討論所以希望針對這樣的議題署長可以跟所有相關的部會都能夠繼續共同來努力當然我想"},{"start":1027.865,"end":1047.063,"text":"最重要的應該就是讓我們這些用藥是安全的那所有需要用藥不管是在哪一個層級哪一個範圍都能夠讓這個用藥的安全達到他該有的目標那就麻煩署長繼續努力謝謝委員我們一定以病人安全為前提之下做跨部會的溝通謝謝謝謝署長 謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"167150","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167150","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f85129587810f1e60ea7c02888e1e08ec371f6512ba5efdfd30a0911e5930497b7265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"10:37:13 - 10:52:04","影片長度":"00:14:51","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:37:13+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:52:04+08:00","duration":891,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.1953437500000001,"end":3.0178437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.0178437500000004,"end":3.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.56096875,"end":12.400343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.83909375,"end":13.919093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.75784375,"end":35.603468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.63284375,"end":50.048468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.63909375,"end":84.06846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.99659375,"end":86.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.88659375,"end":90.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.54409375,"end":103.47471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.09909375000001,"end":131.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.38159375,"end":170.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.40659375,"end":134.79471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.88159375,"end":146.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.97596875000002,"end":163.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.32096875000002,"end":203.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.61221875,"end":197.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.03284375,"end":206.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.42909375000002,"end":225.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.90721875000003,"end":226.17284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.17284375000003,"end":226.22346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.22346875000002,"end":228.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.24034375000002,"end":227.08409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.09659375,"end":242.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.82846875,"end":252.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.31221875000003,"end":257.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.87284375000002,"end":256.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.80096875000004,"end":262.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.41221875,"end":260.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.01971875000004,"end":268.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.39409375,"end":271.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.58346875,"end":341.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.56409375000004,"end":344.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.07846875,"end":348.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.51721875000004,"end":347.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.60096875000005,"end":368.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.18159375000005,"end":360.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.52721875000003,"end":361.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.13784375,"end":477.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.66909375000006,"end":490.21596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.09784375000004,"end":494.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.51471875000004,"end":496.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.67909375000005,"end":609.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.62346875,"end":613.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.1628437500001,"end":626.2959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.2959687499999,"end":675.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.7465937500001,"end":632.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.28409375,"end":679.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.0090937500001,"end":680.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.04284375,"end":696.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":697.8797187499999,"end":712.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.84346875,"end":714.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.0247187500001,"end":716.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.6740937500001,"end":718.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.86784375,"end":722.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.1584687500001,"end":724.2890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":725.16659375,"end":728.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.1828437500001,"end":729.9422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.26284375,"end":731.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.92909375,"end":733.8403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":735.20721875,"end":736.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.6203437500001,"end":738.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.7040937500001,"end":742.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":743.8303437500001,"end":745.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.83846875,"end":746.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":748.84221875,"end":749.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":750.09096875,"end":761.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.7490937500002,"end":751.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":752.79096875,"end":755.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.5034687500001,"end":757.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":760.1653437500001,"end":761.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.7009687500001,"end":774.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":761.86971875,"end":762.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":770.6615937500001,"end":770.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":774.96471875,"end":778.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":779.1497187500001,"end":780.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.72721875,"end":783.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":786.8447187500001,"end":786.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.8784687500001,"end":791.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":786.8953437499999,"end":787.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":791.41784375,"end":794.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":793.0547187500001,"end":793.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":795.7378437500001,"end":798.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":799.29846875,"end":804.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":804.8334687500001,"end":823.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.9697187500001,"end":825.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":824.49284375,"end":824.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":824.64471875,"end":824.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":825.2522187500001,"end":825.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":825.2690937500001,"end":825.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":825.33659375,"end":832.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":825.3703437500001,"end":826.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.9853437500001,"end":833.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":833.60534375,"end":833.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":833.6728437500001,"end":833.7234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":833.7234687500002,"end":834.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.1115937500001,"end":840.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":835.8159687500001,"end":837.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":840.08534375,"end":849.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":841.48596875,"end":841.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":849.0290937500001,"end":889.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":849.38346875,"end":849.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":850.8684687500001,"end":853.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":890.13659375,"end":891.97596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.289,"end":13.572,"text":"就休息十分鐘 謝謝好 謝謝主席 有請鄭應耀部長好 有請部長"},{"start":19.793,"end":34.99,"text":"委員好部長好我想在這裡要說明一下我覺得主席真的是暖心主席每一次都讓部會首長回去還有時間喝口水也希望部長您也要成為暖心部長"},{"start":37.666,"end":49.123,"text":"這個我們今天真的是好久不見這句話真的不是誇示是對真實情況的一個描述上一次部長出現在我們的教育委員會的這個位置是去年的10月15號"},{"start":50.714,"end":75.668,"text":"距離今天97天將近要100天了部長您剛剛有說一年的時間準備這個法案這個法案不管是怎麼樣其實也需要溝通所以您如果可以多來立法院多溝通我想很多事情也許不管是教師 家長 學生都會更加了解我們這百天當中我們教育委員會有安排過大學法"},{"start":76.408,"end":102.926,"text":"有偏鄉地區的教育發展條例有數位素養還有包括營養午餐的專報校事會的專報那教育部呢今天也一度希望安排次長列席不過要不是我們在野黨堅持部長列席我想您可能要神隱超過百天部長您覺得我們剛剛提到這些議題怎麼樣過去這一百天都不重要嗎所以神隱百日嗎"},{"start":104.238,"end":131.4,"text":"跟委員報告絕對不是不重要那我也一定程度的尊重體制就是說在我們過去許多有一些專報大概就是次長們這個來協助那跟團隊來協助那也感謝委員的體諒我也確實也我從來不敢怠惰事實上也跟利用有一些空閒的時間我去了解地方包含剛才我也跟委員講"},{"start":132.701,"end":147.783,"text":"譬如說我們到偏鄉去有一些老師他們特別提到校長提到就是說他們有這一個安全的保險過去是我們辦法是只有到都市來到偏鄉山區教書才有"},{"start":148.163,"end":166.008,"text":"安全的這個特別的一個保險我們現在也把它重篡了解所有的偏鄉讓它都能夠雖然它有這個偏鄉上的移動但是還是暴露在一個相對危險的一個場域下我們也來精進幫老師這個保險幫老師蓋宿舍幫老師等等的這些東西"},{"start":170.829,"end":194.951,"text":"您說明的很好啊 多來嘛這個溝通不是很棒嗎那為什麼過去這一百天 將近一百天這麼少的時間出現在這呢希望您下次多來 好不好我想我們 這是您的職責啊您剛剛提到的很多 有這麼多專業的幕僚大家都可以協助您啊在立院這裡 我們希望人民直接要跟您溝通嘛這很合理吧 對吧"},{"start":196.532,"end":223.318,"text":"謝謝委員尤其您最近登上媒體版面很可惜的還不是教育的議題是政治的事件被對岸列入黑名單一個教育部長如果專心的做教育的議題誰會把你弄到什麼黑名單呢你應該是在人民最愛的暖心的名單裡頭這真的是非常可惜我想我們都有替部長發聲但是部長你有替全國的師生發聲嗎"},{"start":224.838,"end":251.046,"text":"我們其實沒有把您列入黑名單我一直念之再之對嘛 您是念之再之而且還很優雅嘛您曾經說啊 您是優雅的台灣人啊我真的是希望您是一位優雅的教育部長拿出教育部應有的立場跟堅持啊要捍衛我們師生應有的言論自由 遷徙自由千萬啊 不要淪為陸委會或其他部會的下級機關啊"},{"start":252.466,"end":273.333,"text":"您是教育部長顯然不是政治部長我們也希望我一路走來就是身為一個政務官我依法行政如果您做得非常好您就著重在教育的議題誰會把你放到政治的黑名單裡我不曉得中國他到底怎麼樣一個想法您知道您有一些政治的言論"},{"start":274.793,"end":295.182,"text":"所以没有关系这个大家各自可以开放讨论但没有关系希望您多来我们多探讨教育的议题就不会有人把你放到什么政治黑名单我们首先还是要感谢教育部其实去年11月31号宣布调整教师终点费跟导师费"},{"start":296.542,"end":321.196,"text":"這次中央發紅包地方買單50%不過沒有關係有一個開始也是好的但是因為現在不確定教育部的撥款期程各地方政府的進度不一樣比如說新北已經用人事費用將導師費調整成4000塊但終點費還沒有跟上一些教育財政比較困難的縣市則是兩者都不敢調整"},{"start":322.236,"end":340.851,"text":"是不是部長這個新年禮物發了但是作業期程不太明朗各地方政府步調不一很可能會造成教育現場混亂部長可不可以在此明確說明這次調整教師終點費導師費中央的作業期程到底怎麼樣教育部經費預計何時可以撥給地方政府"},{"start":341.656,"end":363.793,"text":"什麼時候跟委員報告中央已經播了已經播了全部都播了地方都收到了我們在1月15號1月15號以前是回溯的還是回溯然後我們1月15號以前不用領據我們就先播的方式1月15號所以我想這個部分也希望這個中央要做到的責任一定要及時做到不然現場可能會有點混亂再我們來談一下午餐的議題我們談一下午餐的議題"},{"start":369.578,"end":388.818,"text":"其實大家都在關心大家的健康過去一般性補助款大概一年補助地方政府74億近來有非常多的縣市開始宣布營養午餐免費現在有22個縣市有兩個縣市還沒有跟進但是各地我們是各自予以尊重的"},{"start":389.378,"end":411.398,"text":"不過中央需要負擔的金額是大幅減少的情況之下也希望教育部在這個議題上可以更加的中立因為這是學童的健康日本 韓國都透過明確的法規來規範中央地方的經費分擔的比例比如說食材費是家長或地方負擔人事費用可能是由中央政府來買單"},{"start":413.199,"end":426.729,"text":"既然目前大部分的餐費可能地方支應中央可能就可以透過其他方面的補助來拉近財政不佳的縣市和大城市之間的距離我們有看到教育部其實在109年跟110年都有編列12.5億還有32億來補助廚房的相關設備"},{"start":435.034,"end":461.169,"text":"廚房的廚工工作量很重可能找不到人等等的隨著科技發展其實AI 科技 智能 智慧都可以來幫助我想國科會也有打造AI的中央廚房更在今年年底前完工你剛有提到AIAI如果只是做這個recipe當然很棒但是硬體的部分其實智慧導入"},{"start":462.55,"end":477.237,"text":"廚房新的設備的建置或改善講出辦法其實是中央可以來做的上一次補助相關的設備已經是五年前了這個部長有沒有機會針對這個部分再來提出一些補助跟講出的辦法"},{"start":479.741,"end":494.499,"text":"我想謝謝委員這也是一個很好的例子就是說中央跟地方比較大型的中央廚房的這個我想我們可以來合作可以來研議一下好不好那研議的結果多久可以跟我們分享一下"},{"start":496.203,"end":517.249,"text":"一個月好 一個月 謝謝我想接著想來討論廚餘的問題其實每天校園的廚餘有500公噸2023年調查報告七成的菜色都有剩下來的問題當然大家吃不一定全部吃光光但是剩食也確實滿多的"},{"start":518.829,"end":545.867,"text":"一年光食材本身的浪費高達22億元新台幣加上這個農業部門可能完全禁止廚藥養豬後續的廚餘成本又追加上去可能又耗費掉很多資源現在根據這個午餐制度其實就是要進行一個相關的公餐但部長您看一下左邊其實本來我們的目標值是說每週供應三份乳品"},{"start":546.867,"end":568.87,"text":"結果實際是右邊的變成什麼呢比較高價的東西可能買的不多或買不起結果為了滿足這個目標值結果怎麼樣變成多吃兩碗飯這沒有不好但是這個飯的量可能就過多就剩下來的可能就多了造成剩食浪費"},{"start":570.311,"end":597.488,"text":"我們看到美國兩週前有公布這個新的飲食指南核心從熱量計算改成重視食物品質衛福部的時部長也在受訪的時候說會修訂每日飲食指南第二季會發布不管衛福部做得怎麼樣其實我們發現我們教育部還有我們的整個教育環境在公餐制度上規定其實相對矢板請問部長這未來能不能有一點彈性空間"},{"start":598.328,"end":613.187,"text":"不要拘泥在熱量啦食材倒數上的限制主要要兼顧孩童健康同時重視食物的品質同時也要減少剩食的浪費這個部分有沒有在研議啊"},{"start":614.329,"end":634.556,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心我們的做法跟想法跨部會的合作都跟委員的想法是一致的我們就希望他吃得健康也不要有剩食不要浪費所以不要拘泥在熱量食材倒數未來應該會有一些新的目標吧不然這個目標看起來打不到會有一些問題"},{"start":635.676,"end":652.751,"text":"我們會跟國建署一起來合作好那我們之後會跟部會來緊密溝通那另外呢剛剛您自己也提到了有這個AI協助午餐開菜單這個也是不錯啦那我們AI基本法也剛通過啦那當然也不要做排擠掉"},{"start":653.391,"end":679.409,"text":"人類的工作但是AI來協助是很好的現在這個已經是五月份了去年五月了這個運用上面有沒有什麼具體的成果可以給我們來拍拍手鼓掌一下比如說廚藝有沒有減少學童滿意度有沒有上升有沒有具體的目標或成效這個部分有沒有現在要說的還是整理出來我們會後再把相關的一些資訊提供給委員"},{"start":680.129,"end":696.447,"text":"好 希望有好的成效就可以分享啦那最後我想請教一下部長關於教育部版的這個午餐法的問題第十一條關於中央應召開學校午餐諮詢會的成員代表"},{"start":697.932,"end":723.937,"text":"那你們列了很多啊這個中央衛生福利啊農業啊環境啊採購主管機關啊採購很重要列上去地方主管機關教育營養保健食品衛生相關的專家學者但是部長你有沒有發現啊學校你們自己的文件都寫得很清楚所謂的學校"},{"start":725.236,"end":746.608,"text":"有三個很重要的成員 親 師 生 對吧老師在哪裡 家長在哪裡 學生在哪裡家長在哪裡 老師在哪裡 學生在哪裡"},{"start":751.274,"end":778.026,"text":"謝謝部長很仔細的看啦你自己也嚇一跳對不對你自己也嚇一跳對不對這是你教育部版建議的文字啊教育部版午餐法上面專業的想像但是我們怎麼樣把利害關係人剛才所講的親師生也能夠有一定程度讓他們能夠意見我想謝謝委員的提醒然後你說親師生午餐團散"},{"start":779.335,"end":803.921,"text":"團善業者在哪裡業者在哪裡業者在哪裡業者裡邊事實上他也包含這個在保健食品 營養等等的所以部長教育部很專業我們都認同但是法條很重要所以一定要能夠落地"},{"start":804.946,"end":823.304,"text":"不要在高空建個樓閣沒有辦法落地午餐法大家都很期待結果午餐諮詢會議如果沒有家長代表沒有學生代表沒有教師代表也沒有營養師代表也沒有團善業者的代表"},{"start":824.686,"end":840.487,"text":"這是怎麼樣落地呢學生是不一定有在地方裡面但是老師啊或者怎麼樣我想營養師這一定有的學生意見重不重要當然重要對嘛那學生有代表很自然啊我們也在我們也通過青年基本法啦對不對我同意"},{"start":841.968,"end":861.354,"text":"這個委員的一個說法就是說我們把利害關係人的權益他的想法看怎麼樣能夠落地不要繞一圈嘛不用直接說透過誰誰誰可以代表進來就代表進來好不好這些人我們剛剛提到的才是最直接碰觸到營養午餐的人"},{"start":862.034,"end":891.458,"text":"如果教育部排除這些人進入午餐政策的規劃和推動怎麼可能規劃出符合食物的政策到時候可能又有很多食物上的問題我們真的是非常希望能夠跟部長一起來合作也希望部長暖心的回饋在法條的建議上面好不好 請部長好好思考可以嗎好 謝謝謝謝委員提醒 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝耿如君委員"}]}},{"id":"167141","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167141","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8513ed5ad26a7c9fb55e1f8a6d37bdd8b8974637afa3742303e29602ffc9a9b6cbf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:33:13 - 09:44:46","影片長度":"00:11:33","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:33:13+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:44:46+08:00","duration":693,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.0853437500000003,"end":6.629093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.759718750000001,"end":8.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.602843750000002,"end":81.11534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.70596875000001,"end":134.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.91221875000001,"end":84.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.66596875,"end":96.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.38284375,"end":97.77096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.23784375,"end":135.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.09409375,"end":136.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.11096875,"end":136.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.14471875,"end":136.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.16159375,"end":136.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.21221875,"end":144.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.29659375,"end":138.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.33784375000002,"end":143.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.02534375000002,"end":144.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.16034375,"end":144.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.37971875,"end":157.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.39659375000002,"end":144.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.61971875,"end":148.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.90971875,"end":155.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.89659375000002,"end":179.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.83409375000002,"end":269.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.67659375,"end":306.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.75096875,"end":316.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.62284375,"end":326.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.65659375,"end":317.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.30471875,"end":337.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.78409375,"end":346.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.06596875,"end":343.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.44096875,"end":389.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.89846875,"end":404.25471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.30971875,"end":410.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.21221875000003,"end":406.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.01784375000005,"end":408.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.09346875,"end":414.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.68346875000003,"end":417.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.53971875,"end":419.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.83471875000004,"end":422.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.47159375,"end":420.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.26034375,"end":450.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.60596875000005,"end":519.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.6797187500001,"end":547.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.11909375,"end":543.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.8103437500001,"end":572.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.2609687500001,"end":553.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.75159375,"end":579.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.3159687500001,"end":591.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.27284375,"end":585.6609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.76596875,"end":589.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.66034375,"end":674.5078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.4865937500001,"end":688.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.9697187500001,"end":689.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.0034687500001,"end":689.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.0203437499999,"end":689.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.08784375,"end":689.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.1384687500001,"end":689.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.20596875,"end":692.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.1172187500001,"end":690.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.69909375,"end":694.70721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.134,"end":6.203,"text":"好 謝謝主席 謝謝委員還有各位官員現在請次長來 次長"},{"start":14.867,"end":42.388,"text":"之前部長有講到說因為2025年台灣即將邁向超高齡的計畫所以不管是透過三高防治888計畫大災計畫等等這些您都非常熟悉了但最近他有提出一個比較特別的就是其他國家可能也有在執行的叫做健康幣那這些都是希望民眾可以及早可以介入並且養成自己維持健康的習慣預防剩餘治療所以本期今天第一個題目是想跟您討論健康幣"},{"start":42.728,"end":68.491,"text":"的問題好之前衛福部規規劃啦他是說期望透過幾個方式比如說接種疫苗他就可以得到健康幣或是他有準時的參加癌症篩檢以及他去聽健康相關的講座或是透過智慧型的產品去監控他的運動的狀況有點像是破任務這樣子的方式來達成接下來呢他就可以去換成商品或是健康食品等等的"},{"start":68.991,"end":96.509,"text":"我是想要初步跟次長請教你們未來是想要採用比如手機的APP或者是你們希望怎麼樣把它跟這些運動的程式去做連結其實簡單來講事實上我謝謝委員關注這一點因為過去我們在健保制度我想委員很清楚過去在健保制度裡面你做健康促進並沒有辦法在整個制度裡面得到支持反而是他的醫療耗用越多"},{"start":96.869,"end":97.73,"text":"那比方说比较更有诱因那像这样子的做法"},{"start":123.072,"end":143.139,"text":"至於說到時候我們現在在規劃裡面還是初步規劃啦這個規劃到時候我們當然現在有一個我們最普遍用的最好在COVID的時候就是我們手上那個健保APP健保APP可能是一個我們到時候會所以應該會用APP目前還在規劃中但是實際上你如何要跟這個運動連結你們現在只有這個想法可是要怎麼去落實"},{"start":144.119,"end":167.798,"text":"我們現在在規劃 因為這裡面有牽涉到不同的面向那有健康行為促進有的時候是在我們國健署有的健康行為促進又在長照也有的可能在那個運動部這一邊所以我們到時候會做比較廣泛的一個討論了解 那這邊呢我再舉一個新加坡的例子可能次長也已經有研究了新加坡他是用一個Healthy 365 APP那就可以累積Health Points"},{"start":167.858,"end":186.139,"text":"那值得讓我們參考跟借鏡的是他們除了可以去換一些voucher就是電子的購物券或者是你如果完成整體的健康諮詢你可以連結到保險保費的折扣那他的優點是說高度數位化他跟商家合作那點數一定用得完"},{"start":186.499,"end":200.003,"text":"而且他範圍很廣 因為你剛剛除了提到運動他裡面連飲食或是睡眠的習慣他都把他串連在裡面 甚至他把保險都囊括進來 但是這個就會是一個大工程 等等我會再跟你討論"},{"start":202.004,"end":219.638,"text":"這樣子如果去執行的話我去看了一些其他國家的做法他們最後會遇到兩個問題第一個是數位落差這個您應該也理解這個數位落差很大尤其我們超高齡我們要如何讓這一個需要非常需要健康租賃的人口都可以不要有這個數位落差第二個就是"},{"start":221.08,"end":233.699,"text":"這個其實在美國的伊利諾大學有做過類似的計畫他當時有一萬兩千名員工然後研究的時間大概是兩年結果就他們整個去回顧回顧他們健康溯源計畫的影響發現"},{"start":235.541,"end":257.296,"text":"最後是自願參加的人有了正面選擇也就是說最終他們有參加這個計畫的人本來回溯以後發現他們原本就是醫療費用比較低或者他們從事健康行為的比例比較高的人也就是較為健康或是具有健康意識的人才會參加這樣子的活動這是他們後來最後的數據顯示的結果"},{"start":258.897,"end":281.424,"text":"所以這邊我有幾個建議然後也想知道您的看法第一個就是你有沒有辦法跟速發部我知道財政部可能不一定這個保險業你有辦法去介入但是首先你可能很需要速發部的幫忙那再來如果你可以學習新加坡把保險納入Maybe也是一個很好的方法但他可能就會拖長這個健康幣執行的時間"},{"start":283.405,"end":303.291,"text":"第二個就是針對剛剛有講到嘛這些人本來就是會比較注重健康針對高風險族群比如他本來就有三高或者是他本來就在BMI比較高的人是不是針對這些族群你去擴大他的誘因你的健康幣可能他有分成1比1或者是1比1.2或是1比1.5 1比1.8讓他從"},{"start":306.852,"end":325.733,"text":"非常不健康的狀況 邁向健康然後再去下降他的幅度然後進一步去鼓勵他的誘因所以大概是這兩點不知道一個月內可不可以給我報告兩點第一個是你覺得你有沒有辦法跟速發部或是保險相關的產業去做結合那第二個就是針對"},{"start":327.936,"end":342.968,"text":"這個其他國家已經研究出來後來居然是比較健康的參加沒有幫助到那些真的很需要幫助的人這點你要如何去做差別提高他的誘因我想委員我們可能只能先給委員初步我們現在的規劃因為就像委員說這是一個蠻龐大的規劃但是其實也希望能夠帶領一個"},{"start":346.591,"end":362.563,"text":"新的思考就是說健康促進是一個很重要的事情大家不要只是從疾病跟健保端我們要從健康促進端更前端來做預防因為未來高齡化人口那剛剛所提到的其實委員說的比較複雜的慢性病這一塊事實上在888計畫裡面可能會比較有幫助"},{"start":363.704,"end":388.865,"text":"但是當然我們也慢慢希望說因為像委員也知道現在有很多他是即時行的回饋看到他的慢性病控制這個對於很多慢性病病人來講他更有資料跟跟資訊能夠清楚知道原來他怎麼樣的飲食能夠對於他的某些慢性病控制更直接這個部分我們之後可能慢慢會再做一些規劃好那簡單來講這個部分就是希望說合併跟我們其他的慢性病控制的這個計劃專有些從健保處理有些從健康"},{"start":388.985,"end":418.147,"text":"我知道但是現在慢性病很明顯的嘛他並沒有辦法從習慣得到誘因啊因為你的健康病的意思就是說我不管是控制我的飲食控制我的睡眠或者說規律運動你想結合這些運動程式嘛智慧智慧型的用品其實還包含比方說像疫苗接種像我想我們也知道說很多疫苗接種身上是慢性病的病人最需要對所以我的意思是說既然你要做了你是不是就把它考量進來是謝謝委員我們會做一些相關的考量那就一個月跟你要這個"},{"start":419.208,"end":447.533,"text":"我们初步计划给委员好不好但是细节可能还没有办法那么多好那下一个议题也是接到一些基层的反应啦就去年9月因为我知道您对这个议题着墨甚多去年9月我们有一个任性台湾民主永续这个论坛所以我们就针对很多医院的地下空间因为现在地下空间大家都知道不是拿来停车就是当美食街那之后有没有办法变成开刀房加护病房产房甚至是透析等等的"},{"start":448.953,"end":475.194,"text":"做這樣子的因應狀況那當時呢您應該有參加這個研討會他就有提到說替代醫療的地下空間分成三個階段裡面包括準備就緒還有啟動就緒是48小時要完成替代空間的建置而啟動呢是準備運作到至少72小時比如說維持他自己的電力水電藥品等等的這個對現階段我們所有的醫療院所都是一個很大的考驗"},{"start":475.914,"end":497.32,"text":"那這個是基層啦有一些醫護人員其實大家對這件事情是有興趣的可是呢裡面有很多很陌生的概念最後呢在這個研討會只有很少數的人知道並且可能是管理階層可是如果你要去落實這一切比如說前進外科小組啦比如說備援手術室團隊啊比如說危機下的醫療準則"},{"start":498.46,"end":518.438,"text":"這些制度規則其實真的要執行的是第一線的人但是在參加這個研討會的人是高層的人那你如何因為很多人是想做的很多人想參與的你如何在可能你有一個保密的機制還有在他實際可以落實你要如何達到這個平衡"},{"start":519.879,"end":542.524,"text":"跟鮑委員其實這個案子這個目前我們主要是針對重度急救責任醫院那因為COVID那一次大家也會發現說有的時候如果你一個一旦有發生感染或特殊狀況比方說他有一些公共安全的一些問題也會導致我們的醫療量能它受到很大的影響所以像這個部分我們事實上就是希望說至少先由重度急救責任醫院能夠有這樣的機制"},{"start":543.484,"end":571.844,"text":"那也先跟委員補充重度急救責任醫院他要能夠自己在水電能夠供應72小時以上這個是我們本來對於重度急救責任醫院就有的要求也就是他在他原來的醫療服務提供的韌性裡面就有這樣的要求那我們在這兩年當然有一些相關的訓練也像您所說的我們是跟醫院的主管因為主管要先知道他要怎麼樣去調度相關的資源那今年度我們會跟包含地方的衛生局以及相關我們剛剛講重度急救責任醫院的這些醫院"},{"start":572.825,"end":589.507,"text":"本身負責這些主管再有一個比較詳盡的一個說明那這樣子的話他們自己在內部其實就像我想委員之前如果在機構待過事實上很多的醫院他都會要有比方說防火火災的時候要有什麼班大家要怎麼樣去運作誰是指揮中心誰是來調度大概就是像這樣子一個方式我們會由中央"},{"start":590.407,"end":606.633,"text":"我這邊舉一個應該是全世界最高規格的醫院它是以色列的蘭巴姆醫學中心它本來地下室是可以停1500台車子的停車場可是它會在6到8小時之內就可以把它改裝成2000床的地下堡壘的"},{"start":607.654,"end":621.649,"text":"裡面包括我剛剛提到的這些東西並且自給自足數日獨立的水電氧氣失誤氣密就是假定他們是長時間的受到火箭的攻擊等等的所以我在這邊是具體給你一個建議說因為你今年還要去宣導嘛"},{"start":622.25,"end":642.827,"text":"那你今天在宣導的時候我們不要只停留在鼓勵跟方向這個層次可能我們去盤點或者是改造你必須要把剛剛我講的這些指標就是幾個小時之內或者他可以支撐幾天把它連結在裡面那這邊呢就是我們上禮拜有發函因為石部長有講到說未來新設醫院"},{"start":643.908,"end":659.401,"text":"按照一定的比例10%會保留作為急救或者是暫時醫療用途等等的但目前這些協助跟支持僅限於公立醫院有很多私立醫院他其實是表達說他有意願去這樣做並且他自主有些人現在已經在這樣做"},{"start":660.402,"end":674.178,"text":"所以我希望這個就是另外一個可以希望一個月或者是一週內可以給我們公文回覆就是說你可不可以極大化我們的醫療韌性就是說你大概多久的時間以內你剛剛講到嘛 地方衛生局嘛"},{"start":675.559,"end":693.17,"text":"多久時間以內你可以極大化醫療韌性我的意思是說讓更多人去參與因為你現在你剛有提到是高層第二個就是是不是可以把這些支持擴張到公立跟私立醫院一起委員是不是容我們一個月給您回覆好不好好 謝謝主席 謝謝次長好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝次長"}]}},{"id":"167139","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167139","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851fc913add6caddfafdc2a6450645e997f74637afa3742303ece8271213e3fc7bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"09:30:07 - 09:37:59","影片長度":"00:07:52","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次公聽會（事由：召開「促進民間參與公共建設法第三條--無人載具相關設施之建設及服務」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:30:07+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:37:59+08:00","duration":472,"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.12784375,"end":1.7353437500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.966593750000001,"end":7.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.62784375,"end":16.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.85534375,"end":60.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.56159375,"end":73.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.96034375,"end":74.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.41159375000001,"end":76.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.55909375,"end":77.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.65159375,"end":79.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.76534375,"end":81.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.14909375,"end":83.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.66346875,"end":86.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.73471875,"end":102.76596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.05284375000001,"end":103.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.04846875000001,"end":105.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.90034375,"end":109.33034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.29221875,"end":113.34659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.54471875,"end":116.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.68784375000001,"end":118.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.81409375000001,"end":121.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.03721875000001,"end":122.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.28596875000001,"end":124.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.39534375000001,"end":129.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.32721875000001,"end":130.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.27221875,"end":139.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.26221875000002,"end":141.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.84846875,"end":143.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.04221875000002,"end":144.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.40909375,"end":147.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.49721875,"end":150.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.85971875,"end":151.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.73284375,"end":156.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.11221875,"end":155.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.22596875000002,"end":156.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.40721875,"end":165.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.21221875,"end":163.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.84471875,"end":170.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.65409375000002,"end":180.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.11659375000002,"end":192.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.94596875000002,"end":194.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.00471875000002,"end":201.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.61971875,"end":203.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.69534375,"end":205.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.66971875000002,"end":207.20534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.44159375,"end":211.87971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.96409375000002,"end":211.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.18346875,"end":217.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.57909375000003,"end":219.84471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.41846875000002,"end":224.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.77221875,"end":229.63221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.86846875,"end":235.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.90971875000002,"end":236.71971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.09096875,"end":237.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.64784375000002,"end":238.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.72784375,"end":240.92159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.50784375,"end":243.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.41471875000002,"end":245.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.59159375000002,"end":247.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.73471875,"end":249.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.25346875000002,"end":251.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.72159375,"end":252.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.97034375,"end":254.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.74221875,"end":256.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.83471875000004,"end":256.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.25659375000004,"end":258.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.97784375000003,"end":259.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.42909375,"end":261.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.26846875,"end":263.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.36096875000004,"end":265.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.09471875,"end":274.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.33409375,"end":277.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.59096875,"end":278.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.82284375,"end":286.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.93971875,"end":287.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.81721875,"end":291.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.79971875,"end":297.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.26284375,"end":300.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.51971875000004,"end":302.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.13971875000004,"end":304.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.60784375000003,"end":305.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.41784375000003,"end":306.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.24034375,"end":308.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.53534375000004,"end":320.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.95971875000004,"end":321.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.32659375000003,"end":326.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.44409375000004,"end":334.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.84784375000004,"end":336.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.45096875,"end":339.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.77534375000005,"end":343.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.80846875000003,"end":346.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.54221875,"end":347.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.04409375,"end":348.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.98909375,"end":349.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.38971875000004,"end":362.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.80971875,"end":369.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.18409375000005,"end":372.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.69846875,"end":373.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.40284375000005,"end":376.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.73159375,"end":377.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.30096875000004,"end":379.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.74784375,"end":404.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.98034375000003,"end":405.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.48221875,"end":407.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.50721875000005,"end":410.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.92034375000003,"end":413.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.80596875000003,"end":414.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.88596875,"end":415.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.89846875,"end":425.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.41596875000005,"end":441.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.90284375000005,"end":451.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.07846875,"end":453.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.47909375,"end":460.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.58346875,"end":465.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.98346875000004,"end":472.26096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.084,"end":7.91,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":14.993,"end":34.256,"text":"主席各位先進那麼有關於今天的這個公聽會就是促成法裡面第三條的修正案在第三條裡面的第一項第16款要增加第16款就是智慧載具相關的設施"},{"start":35.077,"end":58.714,"text":"在說明欄裡面這個講得很清楚了而且是最近執政黨的委員密集的好幾個委員都提了類似個提案這個提案呢就是說要發展把這個智慧載具相關的設施就是無人機方面的相關設施放進來可是說明欄又講得非常清楚他是這個"},{"start":60.975,"end":84.011,"text":"這裡面除了生產研發設施以外包括起降停靠設施平日訓練的航飛型場域研發過程測試的場域等等等等那麼這個當然一提的話無人機產業屬於所謂的五大信賴產業賴總統要推動的五大產業"},{"start":86.789,"end":105.061,"text":"沒有理由反對沒有理由反對但是我們要提出幾個問題我個人提出幾個問題希望在我們未來的修法過程裡面相關的部會特別財政部要特別去注意的地方因為出產條例各位從民國91年民國91年到現在為止用出產條例"},{"start":115.203,"end":120.092,"text":"租產法裡面適用的對象從來沒有針對特定產業"},{"start":122.399,"end":147.1,"text":"從來沒有 基本上就是給地方政府的比如說水溝啦 公園啦 停車場啊 等等的因為這裡面 這裡面有提供很多的優惠啦包括土地租金的優惠 包括補貼 帶款利息包括重大公共建設 或者交通建設免因所遂而且投資的支出還抵減"},{"start":148.881,"end":165.253,"text":"這個財政部提供非常多的優惠鼓勵民間或者VOT 或者OT 或者ROT等等的所以在這種情況之下大概都是以地方政府為主比如說113年的台南市立醫院"},{"start":165.993,"end":180.308,"text":"的興建114年高雄都會公園停車場以及114年的新竹市的水資源水資源的設施桃園婦女的相關的一些活動的設施等等的"},{"start":181.169,"end":195.32,"text":"你就可以發現到說過去的初五餐法適用的都是地方政府的建設地方政府所需要的在113年總共用的是131件金額也就是1588億平均每一件大概12億 這金額都很小tiny tiny 的金額"},{"start":203.626,"end":204.707,"text":"這是地方政府加一個智慧載具的相關設施那就非常大囉看起來相關的設施就是要提供很大的場地"},{"start":218.952,"end":227.535,"text":"這個場地不知道去哪裡了等於圈地一樣 圈成一塊的場地做無人機的訓練起降的訓練 研發的訓練畢竟那是無人機嘛 無人載具嘛那這裡面就在 我剛提到了土地執行的優惠啊這個補貼貸款的利息啊這個土地 所以這裡面我要強調的一個重點就是"},{"start":243.237,"end":265.427,"text":"儲產條例我們都熱箭啟程而且老實講每一年件數都不多你看113年才100多件平均一件12億金額都很小金額都很小就代表什麼意思代表說國人對這一塊興趣度不高"},{"start":267.128,"end":281.299,"text":"那針對今天來說的話如果說你看那個說明欄裡面是針對五大信賴產業剛好最近台美關稅談妥了這一部分我們去投資直接間接的5000億美金2500億直接投資2500億政府保證"},{"start":287.043,"end":300.38,"text":"融資所以政府可能要去成立一個或者立一個新的法把8000億台幣放進來或者原來的中小信保基金現在升不到100億要增加到8000億這裡面都是"},{"start":303.303,"end":306.648,"text":"還是要去解決的還是要解決如果是這樣子的話那我們也可以提半導體的相關設施我們也可以提生技產業的相關設施因為這個是五大信賴產業裡面的五大信賴產業有哪些呢"},{"start":321.247,"end":346.978,"text":"國防安全 這個無人載具屬於國防安全的話次世代通訊 生物科技 人工智慧 半導體這個都是在五大的所謂的五大信賴產業所以今天我要強調的是如果把這16款加進來那17 18都可以加進來呀生物產業的發展設施也可以放進來啦"},{"start":348.098,"end":367.775,"text":"那個國防安全其他的相關產業也可以放進去為什麼只有這個五輪機呢其他也有啊這個我要製造我們現在台灣要發展自主的國防自主的兵工業對放進來呀所以我覺得這個要很慎重了我覺得今天這個來講很慎重因為這樣的一個立法"},{"start":373.14,"end":387.718,"text":"修法針對特定產業給儲餐的一些強力不可不慎因為如果稍微不慎就會掉入是不是有圖利特定廠商都已經想好了"},{"start":389.56,"end":404.299,"text":"哪幾個商商可能要進來所以我們要開這個門讓他來享受土地租金的優惠貸款利息的補貼以及銀索稅的減免以及投資的支出還可以扣抵哇 這樣你讚所以這個我就總結一句話"},{"start":408.544,"end":411.828,"text":"總結一句話 促參條例適度的鬆綁 範圍擴大我個人贊成因為畢竟過去十幾年來績效其實不怎麼樣這個每年才100多件就1000多億 總共一件就12億這個金額實在太少 但是呢"},{"start":425.946,"end":440.026,"text":"過去都是以地方政府為主我倒覺得如果你要講要Echo五大信貸產業那把相關的產業都放進來生物園區也可以放進來他的相關設施可以放進來這個國安的方面放進來AI"},{"start":442.189,"end":462.83,"text":"政府已經在做了通通放進來那這樣子可以是不是政府來企業也來然後我們也鼓勵大家一起來所以否則的話那就會讓外界打一個問號是不是要圖利特定的廠商好不好我把我以上的看法以及比較擔心的部分特別講出來請各位指教感謝 謝謝"},{"start":467.021,"end":470.048,"text":"好 謝謝賴氏寶委員接下來下一位我們請孟廣韻執行長"}]}},{"id":"167138","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167138","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851bd83de3063f57116e1f8a6d37bdd8b8974637afa3742303e48780db23e8b7b075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:19:34 - 09:33:05","影片長度":"00:13:31","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:19:34+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:33:05+08:00","duration":811,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.52846875,"end":3.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.55346875,"end":5.312843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.396593750000001,"end":30.794093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.56534375,"end":10.020968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.18221875,"end":96.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.20159375,"end":155.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.76346875000002,"end":145.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.88846875000002,"end":226.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.34409375,"end":156.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.03784375,"end":241.88346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.13284375,"end":239.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.50409375,"end":248.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.51159375,"end":252.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.84846875000002,"end":250.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.77659375000002,"end":345.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.42034375000003,"end":290.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.81659375000004,"end":347.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.85846875000004,"end":365.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.27346875,"end":400.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.50971875000005,"end":367.01159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.00284375,"end":370.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.20034375,"end":425.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.02784375000005,"end":453.22596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.75409375000004,"end":448.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.96034375000005,"end":500.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.52034375000005,"end":460.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.10471875,"end":534.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.7222187500001,"end":518.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.46284375,"end":530.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.0703437500001,"end":531.7959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.80846875,"end":582.4209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.79659375,"end":585.7622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.98159375,"end":587.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":588.93471875,"end":592.9678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.74034375,"end":599.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.0009687500001,"end":646.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.9497187500001,"end":602.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.56971875,"end":602.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.5334687500001,"end":652.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.1697187500001,"end":683.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":674.27159375,"end":675.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":683.73846875,"end":716.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.48471875,"end":756.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":731.95034375,"end":732.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.92909375,"end":733.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":753.49971875,"end":768.0459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":764.0972187500001,"end":766.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.55659375,"end":780.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":780.75284375,"end":789.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":789.1059687500001,"end":802.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":800.3953437500002,"end":810.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":807.75284375,"end":809.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":810.97596875,"end":811.3134687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.5,"end":5.242,"text":"謝謝主席 有請次長好 次長 次長早 今天排審的藥事法草案 攸關藥商是否因為會因為被過度加重責任而選擇退出市場那我要再次強調其實應該要先開公聽會因為聽取供應商的觀點否則只會衍生更多的問題因為這次修法草案不斷的強調藥品供應的韌性但我必須提醒次長"},{"start":31.283,"end":47.553,"text":"供應鏈穩定本身是一個高度複雜的一個系統問題它不是單一藥商或供應商可以完全掌握那事實上藥品受到很多國內外的因素影響例如原料要過度集中在一個特定一兩個國家那國際大藥廠事實上是根據它的價格它的市場大小來做一個排序那台灣的市場小 藥價差 藥價低大家都同意 那健保給付會更動醫院考慮藥價差"},{"start":59.56,"end":67.383,"text":"那這個優先順位本來就不高那在這樣的結構之下本質修法主要是透過兩件事情一個就申報義務一個就裁罰機制來處理缺藥問題那我感覺是過度將一個結構性的一個風險轉變為轉化成個別廠商的責任"},{"start":76.847,"end":95.735,"text":"那次長覺得完善的藥物供應只是只有供給方的責任嗎所以我下來要請教次長說您除了要求廠商要配合通報跟調度那為何不本身在供應鏈的治理上在風險的分擔跟誘因的設計上有沒有提出對等的責任跟配套措施呢"},{"start":96.235,"end":112.322,"text":"好謝謝委員指導其實向謝謝委員也剛好提出了這個藥品任性六大行動我們這一次的一個新興的計劃好因為其實就像剛委員提到的我們事實上希望能夠把我們的原料要這一邊我們事實上國內是有原料要供應可是當然比例上面還不足而且國內市場比較小"},{"start":112.782,"end":138.387,"text":"所以我們目前正在這個藥品供應韌性計畫裡面我們也會再跟如果說之後當然這個計畫跟運算藥委員會通過要大院通過但是這裡面有一個很重要的事情就是也是因為這個原因所以我們在藥價還有藥價的這個獎勵還有藥品的獎勵的部分事實上從原料藥到我們國內的國產藥品我們這邊都會提供相關的支持跟誘因那剛剛其實委員提到了我也知道說過去健保的藥價是一個很大的關鍵"},{"start":139.247,"end":154.609,"text":"那健保要價這邊事實上在過去幾年我們對於少數供應或者是說它是非常關鍵必要藥品的那個價格的部分委員之前也在我們的這個供你會所以它的價格就會有一個不但是不往下調還會往上調去確保它的供應韌性"},{"start":156.523,"end":163.811,"text":"謝謝次長 次長您說明這些基本上大概了解但是就是說現在的問題或是成效您剛剛有提到個簡報我想請問次長覺得其中我框起來這個字重大影響公衛情勢的定義您覺得夠明確嗎"},{"start":172.762,"end":189.14,"text":"因為現在財量權跟解釋權都在衛福部手上那之前的健保資料管理條例嘛因為我們有個霸王條款嘛明明是可以退出退出權對於目的外使用那但是國家有權就把這個退出權把它阻卻掉那當時我們討論很久因為當時用一個非常含糊的字眼叫做國家安全"},{"start":190.041,"end":210.344,"text":"那後來改變了要更具體說法那就是因為我現在也覺得重大影響公衛這個說法太模糊了那我們來回顧一下永豐生理食鹽水這件事廠商做不出合格的產品可是這個當中因為他沒有被關倉他繼續通報就像是要申報供應量充足那整個市場佔率也都佔得非常高"},{"start":211.205,"end":223.74,"text":"當廠商被勒令停業的時候 完蛋了所以台灣的 說你鹹水就缺貨了那後來衛福部花了更多錢去國外買沒有許可證更貴的藥品來替代所以請問現在衛福部草案中的重大影響是包括這樣的狀況嗎"},{"start":226.483,"end":251.464,"text":"报告委员其实我们当然希望如果以永峰这个案子尽量希望不要走到那一步所以其实刚刚提到了永峰因为他占的市占当时市占70%所以我们现在对于各药厂还有相关的药品供应希望能够让整个供应链能够是不要集中在同一间厂商在立法的时候你说重大影响供应这个部分还因为这是个形容我们这个部分其实还参考WHO这个部分参考WHO国际关注突发公共卫生事件的定"},{"start":252.144,"end":261.152,"text":"我剛剛特別有提到健保資料管理條例那時候也做了很好的一個修正就請次長再思考一下那這次修正常規第96條第一項規定如果要想申報或申報內容不實就可能被處以罰還所以連續罰要一直改善為止那這個是賦予主管機關相當大的裁量權那我請教江署長"},{"start":273.081,"end":301.313,"text":"申報的內容包含什麼廠商是否有申訴跟說明的機會我先跟你說一下當時的情形可否針對需求量暴增不可抗力的這種理由提出說明可能暴增他就工量不足當年有個藥AvendiaAvendia是一個當時是很好的降血糖藥那因為他突然下肢是因為心臟血管的一個風險下肢結果造成另外一個藥叫Genevia現在都還在市面上那大增用量大增那當然會產生一些供應的問題"},{"start":302.854,"end":312.38,"text":"還有還有乳癌標靶藥因為健保署的這個這個財務受限他就突然間以某價錢以上我才 以下我才買結果整個這個藥廠大變動這個生物用藥跟原廠大變動就是換了廠牌那這個供應量整個就發生一個很大的變化"},{"start":321.526,"end":346.864,"text":"那再來有一個肺癌藥他通過的時候大概預期兩億啊我會再提到他後來爆通到二三十億那這種量我想請問這次修法是否有獨立審查跟專業評估機制而不是單獨由這個主管機關來認定因為請記得藥品的採購權跟處方權都不在你這次修法裡面的要究責的對象但是你究責的是廠商"},{"start":348.061,"end":364.348,"text":"報告委員就這一個部分因為剛才提到幾個例不管AvendiaTagris等等的這些藥物的使用的確他是沒辦法究責的因為特定的政策改變所以在這個部分我們一定一定在這次通過之後在後續的執法規裡面會"},{"start":365.549,"end":394.856,"text":"我是希望先能看到有一個這樣的機制嘛是的我們會進一步研議我剛剛為什麼說程序發言次長你也知道因為有太多因素不是他能如果他百分百要被究責那我們都沒有話說那請問次長在健保的制度下什麼情況算是申報內容不實你知道健保署本身也有加量協議那個PVA或者是幾副協議就MBA那也做了醫療評估啊可是估錯了有多少那其中我要講非科學因素有多少"},{"start":395.416,"end":399.959,"text":"剛剛我們提到那個T非阿藥他本來是約束2億結果後來衝到快40億那這個快速 為什麼他小效非常好他快速的擴張那這個是算內容不實是誰的錯我是說當你覺得內容不實的時候那我們請你七項報告我們也給他很好的設備啊他就很正確嗎GDP的主計總數每年成長率一年調了十幾次他也是錯誤啊 一直調啊那為什麼都沒有懲罰機制唯獨這個藥品的用量一不對 一跟預期不合"},{"start":425.316,"end":452.597,"text":"就要惩罚没有啦没有那么严重啦不过先跟委员报告几个事情像之前我们生理神水那个时候很多其实很多医院跟原来的这个药厂都有相关的契约相关的合约那当时为了要能够大家平衡能够来供应一起来让台湾的药品那个医疗能够服务能够运作其实当时我们食药署也协助就是向各医疗院所还有各医疗院所出具一个指示是说请他们在这段时间不能就责于原来厂商的"},{"start":453.057,"end":476.464,"text":"謝謝市長 因為這個部分是當然您有做這樣努力我們謝謝 但是這件事既然要修法我覺得還是要有一個比較正確的因為如果藥廠依照被限縮給付條件下他去申報去申報他的量能量能如實申報但是後來因為給付擴增了臨床處方行為改變或是大家都會被類視頻連動我剛剛也舉了一個例子類視頻改變的狀況就改變或自費病人增加那個"},{"start":477.304,"end":499.484,"text":"就是今天是健保署在這邊以前健保署是不管自費藥但是部長次長您是必須連自費藥的因素一起考慮那就出現很多的落差那這樣會不會被認為是申報不實如果連健保署自己都無法估準用量那在高度不確定的制度環境下那廠商為什麼要被糾正為什麼要承擔本來他不該全部承擔的這個"},{"start":500.265,"end":517.974,"text":"當然跟我們報告這次我們其實整個修法是希望能夠協助廠商在相關法源的部分更明確廠商其實才比較不會真的跟我們之間有一些衝突或者是矛盾那再補充一下就是說有些藥品在供應像您剛剛提到因為某一個規矩的變動可能會某一個藥品突然間大量處理這個部分或是某一個變動讓藥品它的連動"},{"start":519.895,"end":533.879,"text":"其實我們現在在相關的藥品我們定期食藥署跟健保署的會議裡面我們會跟相關的學協會討論說某一個藥品因為廠商已經給我們警訊了他可能會短期之內供應會有短缺的情況之下是不是有哪些影響連動到其他藥品我個人沒有反對說要"},{"start":535.92,"end":559.322,"text":"藥廠通報責任 那憑幸好論市長你現在覺得健保市場對藥品是個好環境嗎需要代理商公會 民意理事長蘇滿講說目前是臺灣藥界最有寫最艱困的時代因為原廠要從許可證和健保合價到醫院採購 每一段都用年來算用年的時間來算然後造成代理商必須付出很高昂的權益金甚至消耗過期的這個藥品另外一方面健保合價制度"},{"start":559.982,"end":586.608,"text":"嚴重的壓縮藥品的利潤讓藥界叫苦連天因為脊腹價格低 條件嚴苛我想這個連醫界都在反映那又有巨額的藥價差如果脊腹制度沒有任何的精進又不斷的加重廠商的負擔難道不會影響跨國藥廠比如說台灣市場醫院甚至連本國連本國的廠商都不願繼續做下去嗎當時的生理實驗其實某個程度也反映了這件事情生理實驗實驗這件事情是廠商他們就是規避他們應該有的品管不是價格的問題"},{"start":588.999,"end":602.487,"text":"市長你應該知道真相不是如此委員真的我們去調查過那個廠商而且我們在那個生理食鹽水是有請各廠商提出來我們在他出事之前我們才調過價格到現在食藥署還沒有接受其實健保署也有高度責任那我就請教啦監察2023年調查報告指出食藥署欠缺主動查核的管理機制在接獲藥品短缺通報後這是監察院喔無論是否屬於必要藥品當然必要很難認定很難認定各說各話"},{"start":615.794,"end":644.505,"text":"事實上多你們緊確了解供應狀況啦 臨床必要性替代藥品的取代 評估然後再請常說你以後要加強這個輸入或是生產或是啟動專案進口因應但是食藥署雖然過去你剛剛有提到會協調保留一定的數量供應在譬如說跟基層的地方 譬如說社區藥局等但是因為藥商大部分與大型醫院簽約嘛但簽約就會有處罰嘛那造成缺藥當然首先是供應那邊那雖然你做協調但是這只是沒有具有法律效力喔 這個只是"},{"start":645.465,"end":673.08,"text":"所以這次我們才會在修法的條文裡面希望在這種緊急狀況之下我們能夠有一定程度的供應的法源調度法源回來西藥署評估是沒有缺藥但是民眾事實上是領不到藥的27條第三語規定主管機關的限制藥品供應的範圍期間數量對象與方式或採取的管制措施可是西藥署可以不管廠商跟醫院的契約統一去做分配請問署長那違約的處罰要廠商吞下來就是說等於說"},{"start":674.32,"end":700.143,"text":"我想你們都明白醫院除了違約金他還有其他的處罰方式包括整體藥品該搶的處方量或是直接停掉停用藥品那個次長您去年去的去年那個去年在新聞中我說中部某家醫院對不對他因為這個利潤開藥就是以利潤來取向所以我是說藥廠他配合國家政策但是你如果去保障他們願意配合國家政策的這個權益"},{"start":701.684,"end":706.467,"text":"还有在非必要的药品的管理上是不是你还是只是扮演协调的角色"},{"start":733.065,"end":754.181,"text":"那您刚刚提到的医院这边其实它有一件很重要的事情,像去年生理食品水的案子的时候,原来医院它自己的供应韧性,它自己储备的量能足够的情况之下,它暂时比较没有短缺的压力。所以那次很多的医院也发现,它如果没有跟厂商签约,它如果没有具备自己本身的药品供应韧性,它自己都只是在那个最少的量,然后只要明天到了才需要叫货。"},{"start":754.241,"end":779.911,"text":"我們就希望醫院不要造成這樣的事情明明就是剩下一個藥品然後這個品質不良然後最後剩下全台灣就仰賴他他當時給付25塊但是他賣給醫院18塊所以這一次我們其實這一次所以18塊錢那個藥價差要給醫院嘛委員這一次我們就調度就必要藥品的那個藥價我們會另外做一些調整然後再來在這一次其實處理裡面剛剛其實委員第一張判斷片我非常感謝委員因為我們在新興的這個藥品任性計畫裡面就是希望能夠把整個"},{"start":780.831,"end":808.47,"text":"做全面性的調整讓藥商這邊不要只是用低價來做處理我們對於必要藥品 重要藥品 關鍵藥品我們尤其是國產我們希望能夠全力來協助市長我想謝謝你行政機關我希望在處理任何法案的時候就知道所有利害關係人就是不是說單純的簡單把究責放在廠商那就結束了因為剛剛我已經用盡努力說明為什麼不是單一因素我們非常感謝廠商過去在法院都還沒有非常的完整的情況之下協助我們去完成我們的供應任性謝謝市長 署長 謝謝主席"},{"start":810.794,"end":810.815,"text":"是"}]}},{"id":"167135","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167135","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8513b5d89bfb732be5ddc2a6450645e997f74637afa3742303eb606aef97113c26b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"09:22:24 - 09:29:58","影片長度":"00:07:34","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次公聽會（事由：召開「促進民間參與公共建設法第三條--無人載具相關設施之建設及服務」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:22:24+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:29:58+08:00","duration":454,"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.28409375000000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.57096875,"end":3.8615937500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.148468750000001,"end":6.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.814718750000001,"end":11.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.691593750000003,"end":17.074718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.37846875,"end":25.360343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.96784375,"end":106.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.01846875000001,"end":117.53159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.78471875000001,"end":160.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.46159375000002,"end":161.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.16596875000002,"end":205.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.75409375,"end":208.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.70721875,"end":287.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.12096875000003,"end":290.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.00659375000004,"end":327.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.06409375000004,"end":336.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.77159375,"end":358.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.97909375,"end":364.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.34534375000004,"end":370.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.48784375,"end":384.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.98346875000004,"end":415.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.74659375000005,"end":447.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.35721875,"end":454.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.75721875000005,"end":456.14534375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.61,"end":24.652,"text":"那因為準備了簡報讓大家方便大家了解今天呢召開這個公聽會主要是要探討呢關於無人機因為運用廣泛市場潛力大而且我們如何促進民間參與來完善相關所需的基礎設施那首先要回到初參法是什麼那跟無人機有何關聯那我們看到初參法第一條就是為了提升公共服務水準加速經濟"},{"start":26.033,"end":44.175,"text":"社会经济发展促进民间参与公共建设那简单讲呢就是在政府所应该要执行的公共建设当中我们找出有日常性值得民间投资的那透过租税优惠或融资协助来寻找一个促成的模式这种情况之下"},{"start":44.716,"end":72.698,"text":"就無需動用政府的公務預算而能夠透過民間的資金參與來完善我們整個社會經濟發展所需要的各項基礎設施那本項提案成如剛剛吳理事長所說的其實在出產法目前數位環境本來已經涵蓋但是我們希望能夠更加明確的針對無人載具的部分能夠去思考有哪些的公共基礎設施本來應該由政府來積極的籌建"},{"start":74.019,"end":89.472,"text":"但是由於他具有這樣的出餐的特質我們今天找出來讓民間可以共同來參與那本次提案呢有包括了王振旭 郭育晴 李柏毅及徐富奎等多位委員都有提出好 那麼接下來我們看到說到無人機啊"},{"start":89.952,"end":117.258,"text":"大部分的民眾腦海浮起的就是一個國防的軍工產業或是用來軍警執法警察執法甚至是消防救災所以我們看到很多的報紙標題都放在軍方採購上面其實沒有錯無人機之所以被廣泛注目其實無人載具不只是無人機但是無人機顯然容易吸引社會的目光包括用來偵查打擊或者是對陣的作戰這在軍事方面"},{"start":117.918,"end":133.605,"text":"那就警察的部分呢他可以執行即時反應還可以透過科技執法那對於消防救災的部分他可以監測收救還可以投放物資未來我們都看到這些是載具當中無人機最為民眾所熟知的"},{"start":134.145,"end":155.451,"text":"但是我们再往下看其实无人机早就飞进了我们的生活当中从农业部包括一开始做的植保机他做农药肥料的施肥等等他事实上还可以做到什么做到农作物生长状况的监控包括水产养殖这种广域型的农业生产都可以透过无人机来判断"},{"start":155.991,"end":171.844,"text":"目前農作或者是蓄產或者是水產的生長狀況那其實談到交通部其實我們的物流配送其實在地面包括未來的無人車甚至現在已經大家在思考的像有沒有可能"},{"start":172.384,"end":184.697,"text":"無人的空運就是以貨運為主的無人空運都可能扮演著這樣未來甚至是跨國跨洋的這樣的需求那同時呢在物流的部分呢其實在龐大的倉儲設備當中是否"},{"start":188.361,"end":208.34,"text":"无人载具多轴的无人机它实际上也可以来进行仓储盘点的功能这样的一个机器人智慧机器人实际上未来的应用是非常广泛至于医疗就更不用说了实际上卫福部已经在去年的灾害当中成功地试着在偏远灾区投放这些必要的这些药品"},{"start":208.78,"end":235.83,"text":"或者说像蛇毒血清比如说登山客被毒蛇咬那你把人搬下山的一个方法另外一个方法就是把药品送上山那么甚至在未来无人载具的承重安全性更提高之后甚至紧急的伤员后送都可以透过这样的无人载具去执行其实这个在乌克兰的战场已经成功地展现出透过无人车能够地面的载具将伤员从"},{"start":236.77,"end":261.181,"text":"抵后方把它运回到我们运回到我方的一个控制的领域那至于在测绘摄影的部分目前我们的国土测绘早就在应用了那除了即时的画面拍摄之外还可以透过多角度的摄影来建立更完整的地面的图姿那至于交通的部分有人在想象说有人的短程交通或者说要很迅速的透过复杂地形的障碍"},{"start":261.901,"end":280.999,"text":"核心當中其實就有三個重點無人機因為它沒有人員的傷亡顧慮它適合去執行高危險的任務避免人員暴露在危險當中第二個它是突破空間的控制那麼因為我們知道垂直的一向是我們人員移動的困難"},{"start":281.559,"end":306.815,"text":"所以突破了空间甚至最后无人载具由于它可以重复的使用它可以降低我们人力的成本那么无人载具的潜力我们看到了包括有人在推估复合的年度成长率高达7.3%产业的总值高达578亿美元商用市场先不谈目前的军用商规各国在采购其实更大的市场是在商用的部分但是"},{"start":307.395,"end":327.248,"text":"無人載具的數量預期可以不斷的提升不是只有無人載具的製造業引起大家的注意機體本身之外它需要相對應的設施像什麼呢我們往下看其實不只要製造載具還要完善基礎設施譬如說我們看到這樣的新聞60架空拍機干擾結果國慶煙火取消無人機的演出為什麼會有這種情況又或者說"},{"start":328.449,"end":351.807,"text":"軍方突然劃設了無人禁飛區那麼農會這些資保機就透過農會表達希望能夠暫緩也就是說在各種的公益需求跟私人的商業當中我們的禁核如果去求取法規上的平衡到底需要哪些基礎設施具有正常性可以帶來收益所以我們希望各方協調也要需要軟硬體設施的配合所以這就是為什麼我們來探討"},{"start":352.748,"end":369.675,"text":"政府應該除了法令之外我們也要一些基礎設施的配合舉例來講我們看到有哪些呢譬如說數位空域的管理系統UTM包括航路的規劃等等那麼包括專用的起降廠剛剛有代表提出了未來的隨之起降或者都市距離的建設"},{"start":370.615,"end":399.165,"text":"又或者說安全及隱私的防護設備像電子圍籬避免撞到的城市的高樓又或者說剛剛有理事長提到的充電與換電的基礎設施自動換電站又或者說我們看到通訊局導航的增強設備因為目前我們國在目前的空域當中大概是以有人航空為主在佈置這樣的一個導航的系統那未來無人機的低空經濟它是不是要怎麼跟有人航空做區隔我想這也是需要一些基礎設施的盤點"},{"start":400.405,"end":419.55,"text":"另外像大型的轉運或物流中心其實這些載具的中轉或者說物品的轉運無人機不再只是輕巧的多軸無人機那種小型的跟拍機而已事實上未來無人機的貨運物流它可以扮演更大的角色所以這些的基礎設施都要相對應的一些政府的投入"},{"start":420.33,"end":446.633,"text":"那因此今天我們希望能夠在其他學者專家的報告之外我們也來思考一下到底這樣的一個環境基礎建設有哪些具有公共建設性質而當中哪些具有自償性那我們希望能夠由各界來提供建言是否相關的設施屬於公共建設是否能夠建立自償性性民營投資有沒有遺漏或者需要政府來補充的那今天就以這幾點來就教於所有的學者專家謝謝"},{"start":450.39,"end":452.293,"text":"我們下一位就是由賴時髦委員來進行發言 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167133","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167133","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851f07e9943637cff8ae1f8a6d37bdd8b8974637afa3742303ee845366a77bfd4645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"09:15:11 - 09:16:27","影片長度":"00:01:16","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:15:11+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:16:27+08:00","duration":76,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.16596875,"end":0.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.8915937500000001,"end":1.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.8872187500000002,"end":6.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.764093750000001,"end":11.320343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.759093750000002,"end":16.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.74971875,"end":62.063468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.384093750000005,"end":76.00221875000001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.921,"end":16.259,"text":"那我這邊提案是本市提出這個要釋法及藥肺休憩的修法目的就是要強化國內藥物供應的這個供應鏈的韌性那有鑒於過去疫情期間的發生後國內各項藥品供應不穩"},{"start":17.836,"end":41.049,"text":"甚至出現斷料危機對病患的權益造成莫大的影響所以也希望透過本次的修法希望能強化藥品的預警與應變的兩大機制那第一是監測機制針對必要藥品要求藥商定期申報製造與庫存不能等到缺藥才發現那第二彈性授權當發生供應不足或緊急空位事件時"},{"start":42.33,"end":59.143,"text":"授權中央可以專案核准製造與輸入不受一般查驗登記的限制確保藥品不斷貨那同時也希望透過修正這個藥害救濟法進行配套保障明確定義因應缺藥或緊急公衛需求而專案核准的藥品"},{"start":59.904,"end":75.323,"text":"必須納入要害救濟的適用範圍不能因為是緊急專案就讓民眾承擔這個風險那期盼透過此次修法保障民眾用藥權利及安全避免過去缺藥危機再次發生那以上說明也敬請各位委員可以支持 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"17207","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17207","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e831044d4eb4d2098ca3bf586b49d470b0a219bd209750d2d7bde38ef76373e7a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次公聽會（事由：召開「促進民間參與公共建設法第三條--無人載具相關設施之建設及服務」公聽會）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-19","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-19T08:31:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T11:49:00+08:00","duration":11880,"影片長度":"03:18:00","委員發言時間":"08:31:00 - 11:49:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.53784375000004,"end":295.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1025.9634687500002,"end":1026.9759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1026.9759687500002,"end":1027.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1027.0940937500002,"end":1027.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1741.5984687500002,"end":1750.4747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1750.6265937500002,"end":1759.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1760.0597187500002,"end":1765.9490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1766.3203437500001,"end":1768.5309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1769.5097187500003,"end":1771.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1771.93971875,"end":1773.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1774.1503437500003,"end":1780.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1781.3728437500001,"end":1786.6040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1788.4772187500002,"end":1794.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1796.2059687500002,"end":1802.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1803.0572187500002,"end":1808.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1809.4190937500002,"end":1815.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1816.8778437500002,"end":1834.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1834.6978437500002,"end":1837.9715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1838.57909375,"end":1843.5909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1844.4009687500002,"end":1844.9915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1845.1097187500002,"end":1849.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1851.0328437500002,"end":1857.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1858.4915937500002,"end":1862.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1863.5372187500002,"end":1868.0765937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1869.4603437500002,"end":1876.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1877.1890937500002,"end":1881.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1882.16721875,"end":1885.8965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1886.5884687500002,"end":1893.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1894.9078437500002,"end":1896.2072187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1896.6122187500002,"end":1900.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1901.9447187500002,"end":1903.8178437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1904.1553437500002,"end":1905.7247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1907.8509687500002,"end":1909.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1909.6565937500002,"end":1911.9347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1912.9978437500001,"end":1918.9040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1920.3890937500003,"end":1925.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1926.34596875,"end":1928.9615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1929.4003437500003,"end":1929.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1930.0584687500002,"end":1931.7797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1932.9947187500002,"end":1935.5765937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1935.9647187500002,"end":1938.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1939.6603437500003,"end":1942.0059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1942.2759687500002,"end":1944.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1945.5328437500002,"end":1949.8865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1950.8484687500002,"end":1952.5528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1953.0253437500003,"end":1955.9109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1956.3497187500002,"end":1956.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1957.7503437500002,"end":1962.0028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1962.9309687500001,"end":1970.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1970.4740937500003,"end":1972.9884687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1973.3934687500002,"end":1974.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1975.2328437500003,"end":1975.9415937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1976.1947187500002,"end":1978.4728437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1979.0972187500001,"end":1982.3540937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1983.0965937500002,"end":1985.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1986.2184687500003,"end":1987.8890937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1988.9522187500002,"end":1996.6134687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1997.9803437500002,"end":2000.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2000.3934687500002,"end":2003.1947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2003.3128437500002,"end":2004.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2004.7134687500002,"end":2008.5440937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2009.1178437500002,"end":2009.9109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2010.1978437500002,"end":2011.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2012.6278437500002,"end":2013.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2013.4040937500001,"end":2014.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2015.5134687500001,"end":2017.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2017.6903437500002,"end":2020.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2020.9134687500002,"end":2025.8072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2026.2459687500002,"end":2028.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2028.2540937500003,"end":2029.7390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2030.2790937500001,"end":2030.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2030.9034687500002,"end":2032.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2032.9453437500001,"end":2036.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2037.3665937500002,"end":2039.7459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2040.10034375,"end":2042.6822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2043.0365937500003,"end":2050.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2050.3603437500005,"end":2053.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2053.11096875,"end":2056.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2057.19471875,"end":2058.1397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2058.8484687500004,"end":2060.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2061.4978437500004,"end":2077.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2078.2547187500004,"end":2083.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2083.41846875,"end":2085.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2086.5234687500006,"end":2087.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2087.8397187500004,"end":2089.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2090.26971875,"end":2094.3534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2094.7753437500005,"end":2097.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2097.88034375,"end":2102.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2103.2128437500005,"end":2105.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2106.0478437500005,"end":2107.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2108.17409375,"end":2111.1609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2111.32971875,"end":2113.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2113.7428437500002,"end":2115.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2115.10971875,"end":2121.5897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2121.9609687500006,"end":2124.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2124.45846875,"end":2127.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2128.0865937500002,"end":2129.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2129.8584687500006,"end":2130.6853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2132.54159375,"end":2133.8240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2136.25409375,"end":2136.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2138.1778437500006,"end":2138.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2139.22409375,"end":2140.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2142.9872187500005,"end":2143.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2143.5778437500003,"end":2144.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2145.3834687500002,"end":2146.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2148.38721875,"end":2158.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2159.22096875,"end":2168.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2168.2997187500005,"end":2169.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2169.6328437500006,"end":2175.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2183.26784375,"end":2183.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2183.80784375,"end":2225.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2225.77596875,"end":2292.8203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2293.20846875,"end":2307.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2307.95721875,"end":2307.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2308.04159375,"end":2349.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2349.68909375,"end":2357.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2358.0759687500004,"end":2380.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2380.6209687500004,"end":2407.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2408.14409375,"end":2442.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2443.1259687500005,"end":2463.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2464.3378437500005,"end":2465.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2466.29534375,"end":2516.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2516.98784375,"end":2544.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2545.43909375,"end":2567.2753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2567.78159375,"end":2591.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2593.3134687500005,"end":2593.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2593.4147187500002,"end":2593.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2593.9715937500005,"end":2606.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2607.2353437500005,"end":2629.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2630.77596875,"end":2645.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2649.6590937500005,"end":2655.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2655.7509687500005,"end":2657.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2658.24846875,"end":2660.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2661.08346875,"end":2665.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2665.4034687500007,"end":2667.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2668.0528437500006,"end":2671.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2672.52471875,"end":2677.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2677.72221875,"end":2679.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2679.5447187500004,"end":2681.0128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2681.56971875,"end":2683.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2683.8815937500003,"end":2692.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2693.2303437500004,"end":2703.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2703.55784375,"end":2704.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2704.6884687500005,"end":2710.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2711.2528437500005,"end":2715.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2715.2353437500005,"end":2716.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2716.95659375,"end":2720.1797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2720.3990937500002,"end":2724.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2724.8709687500004,"end":2726.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2726.77784375,"end":2731.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2731.2497187500003,"end":2740.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2741.23971875,"end":2766.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2767.21034375,"end":2767.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2768.1553437500006,"end":2776.0528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2776.62659375,"end":2806.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2807.1534687500007,"end":2829.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2829.6647187500002,"end":2835.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2835.38534375,"end":2878.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2878.1803437500002,"end":2937.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2937.81659375,"end":2940.1622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2940.65159375,"end":2941.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2942.10284375,"end":2944.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2944.58346875,"end":2961.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2961.7115937500002,"end":2986.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2986.83846875,"end":2995.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2995.9509687500004,"end":2996.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2997.25034375,"end":3007.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3007.9659687500007,"end":3043.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3043.6397187500006,"end":3056.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3056.4140937500006,"end":3056.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3057.39284375,"end":3057.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3057.9665937500004,"end":3062.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3063.2315937500007,"end":3071.2472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3073.7784687500007,"end":3074.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3076.6472187500003,"end":3081.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3082.0809687500005,"end":3084.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3084.81471875,"end":3088.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3088.32471875,"end":3089.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3089.7928437500004,"end":3095.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3095.36159375,"end":3096.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3096.62721875,"end":3103.2928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3103.93409375,"end":3182.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3183.17909375,"end":3184.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3185.0859687500006,"end":3195.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3195.76784375,"end":3238.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3238.4109687500004,"end":3239.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3240.13221875,"end":3285.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3285.45846875,"end":3286.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3286.6903437500005,"end":3350.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3350.84909375,"end":3365.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3366.0534687500003,"end":3368.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3368.9559687500005,"end":3405.6084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3406.0303437500006,"end":3436.7597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3436.97909375,"end":3442.2272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3442.34534375,"end":3448.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3448.4372187500003,"end":3459.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3459.7265937500006,"end":3462.6628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3462.9665937500004,"end":3480.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3481.02284375,"end":3483.3347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3483.50346875,"end":3498.0665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3498.20159375,"end":3525.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3528.34034375,"end":3532.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3533.45346875,"end":3534.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3538.4822187500004,"end":3540.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3543.08909375,"end":3543.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3548.9278437500006,"end":3549.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3556.60596875,"end":3558.2597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3558.83346875,"end":3602.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3602.5397187500002,"end":3615.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3615.9384687500005,"end":3616.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3617.3897187500006,"end":3618.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3618.5203437500004,"end":3619.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3620.61284375,"end":3621.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3621.74346875,"end":3623.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3623.1778437500006,"end":3628.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3628.7128437500005,"end":3644.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3645.0309687500003,"end":3645.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3646.0097187500005,"end":3647.8322187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3648.86159375,"end":3651.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3652.2703437500004,"end":3655.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3656.52284375,"end":3658.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3658.6490937500002,"end":3660.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3660.79221875,"end":3663.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3664.0153437500003,"end":3664.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3665.2472187500007,"end":3666.8165937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3667.3565937500007,"end":3671.1534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3671.3222187500005,"end":3672.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3672.2840937500005,"end":3681.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3682.2403437500006,"end":3683.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3683.77596875,"end":3685.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3686.0203437500004,"end":3686.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3687.38721875,"end":3689.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3690.4753437500003,"end":3692.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3692.8378437500005,"end":3693.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3694.6940937500003,"end":3698.0690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3697.1240937500006,"end":3697.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3698.28846875,"end":3698.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3699.36846875,"end":3699.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3699.8240937500004,"end":3707.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3705.17346875,"end":3705.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3707.80596875,"end":3712.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3712.63221875,"end":3722.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3723.0778437500003,"end":3734.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3734.9072187500005,"end":3736.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3736.98284375,"end":3743.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3743.5809687500005,"end":3745.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3745.65659375,"end":3747.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3747.6647187500002,"end":3749.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3749.4197187500004,"end":3753.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3754.1447187500007,"end":3759.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3760.55721875,"end":3761.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3762.3965937500006,"end":3766.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3766.75034375,"end":3771.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3771.8634687500007,"end":3777.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3777.83721875,"end":3778.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3779.05221875,"end":3779.4572187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3779.59221875,"end":3780.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3780.68909375,"end":3782.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3784.48596875,"end":3785.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3786.39284375,"end":3787.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3788.56971875,"end":3789.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3790.7297187500008,"end":3791.2697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3792.2315937500007,"end":3793.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3793.69971875,"end":3794.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3794.9484687500008,"end":3796.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3796.70346875,"end":3798.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3798.81284375,"end":3798.9140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3799.2178437500006,"end":3800.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3800.9559687500005,"end":3801.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3802.3903437500003,"end":3803.7740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3804.24659375,"end":3805.4953437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3806.3390937500008,"end":3807.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3809.05596875,"end":3816.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3816.36284375,"end":3819.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3819.55221875,"end":3820.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3820.7840937500005,"end":3828.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3828.90096875,"end":3829.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3829.8122187500003,"end":3833.5753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3833.7609687500008,"end":3839.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3840.2409687500003,"end":3842.8397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3843.48096875,"end":3844.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3845.10096875,"end":3846.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3846.5690937500003,"end":3847.2609687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3847.3622187500005,"end":3848.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3849.20159375,"end":3850.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3851.5134687500004,"end":3862.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3862.9209687500006,"end":3863.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3864.2878437500003,"end":3867.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3868.42221875,"end":3876.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3876.80909375,"end":3877.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3878.42909375,"end":3881.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3881.73659375,"end":3885.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3885.7697187500007,"end":3888.1153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3888.5203437500004,"end":3889.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3890.00534375,"end":3890.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3890.9503437500007,"end":3891.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3892.35096875,"end":3904.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3904.7878437500003,"end":3911.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3912.1453437500004,"end":3913.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3913.5290937500004,"end":3914.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3914.6765937500004,"end":3915.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3916.3640937500004,"end":3918.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3918.76034375,"end":3919.9415937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3920.2790937500004,"end":3921.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3922.72596875,"end":3946.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3946.95846875,"end":3947.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3948.46034375,"end":3949.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3950.45159375,"end":3952.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3952.8984687500006,"end":3955.2440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3955.76721875,"end":3956.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3956.8809687500006,"end":3957.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3957.8428437500006,"end":3983.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3983.84721875,"end":3993.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3994.0565937500005,"end":3995.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3995.4572187500007,"end":4002.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4002.5615937500006,"end":4007.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4007.9615937500002,"end":4014.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4026.99659375,"end":4049.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4050.1659687500005,"end":4108.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4108.874093750001,"end":4109.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4111.00034375,"end":4133.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4134.321593750001,"end":4144.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4144.530968749999,"end":4165.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4166.68784375,"end":4190.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4192.439093749999,"end":4194.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4194.6834687499995,"end":4240.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4241.41034375,"end":4242.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4242.557843750001,"end":4261.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4261.677218750001,"end":4277.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4278.29909375,"end":4279.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4281.06659375,"end":4286.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4287.20909375,"end":4354.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4355.569718750001,"end":4394.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4396.592843750001,"end":4439.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4440.5184687500005,"end":4458.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4459.0809687500005,"end":4459.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4460.17784375,"end":4493.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4496.239718750001,"end":4511.798468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4513.722218749999,"end":4513.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4514.02596875,"end":4519.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4531.37346875,"end":4569.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4569.139718750001,"end":4576.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4576.75034375,"end":4583.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4583.97284375,"end":4598.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4598.50221875,"end":4611.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4612.03596875,"end":4702.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4703.009093750001,"end":4724.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4724.32221875,"end":4747.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4748.234093749999,"end":4811.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4812.1903437500005,"end":4879.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4879.74096875,"end":4924.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4924.66221875,"end":4972.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4972.6884687500005,"end":4992.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4994.82846875,"end":4994.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4994.91284375,"end":4994.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4994.96346875,"end":4994.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4995.2840937500005,"end":4999.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5009.577218750001,"end":5017.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5017.255343750001,"end":5021.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5022.06471875,"end":5024.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5025.11909375,"end":5027.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5028.359093749999,"end":5029.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5029.47284375,"end":5037.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5038.04534375,"end":5275.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5091.977843750001,"end":5092.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5275.98284375,"end":5275.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5276.151593750001,"end":5340.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5341.00221875,"end":5410.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5411.77596875,"end":5415.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5424.229718750001,"end":5441.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5441.44221875,"end":5760.548468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5761.206593750001,"end":5887.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5889.70971875,"end":5889.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5890.013468749999,"end":5894.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5904.593468749999,"end":5925.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5926.00784375,"end":6124.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6126.786593750001,"end":6127.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6127.51221875,"end":6131.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6132.0009687500005,"end":6157.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6159.94596875,"end":6159.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6159.979718750001,"end":6165.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6168.130343750001,"end":6170.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6170.83034375,"end":6171.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6173.378468750001,"end":6176.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6177.24284375,"end":6179.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6191.78909375,"end":6194.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6195.231593750001,"end":6197.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6197.50971875,"end":6202.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6202.6903437500005,"end":6204.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6204.63096875,"end":6205.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6205.28909375,"end":6206.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6206.79096875,"end":6210.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6210.655343750001,"end":6215.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6215.5322187500005,"end":6217.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6218.468468749999,"end":6222.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6224.003468750001,"end":6234.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6235.42784375,"end":6236.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6236.237843750001,"end":6240.405968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6241.04721875,"end":6242.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6243.84846875,"end":6246.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6247.05471875,"end":6250.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6250.7840937500005,"end":6252.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6252.8934687500005,"end":6253.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6254.192843750001,"end":6258.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6258.7997187500005,"end":6260.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6261.263468749999,"end":6262.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6263.288468750001,"end":6265.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6265.88721875,"end":6268.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6268.57034375,"end":6270.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6271.47284375,"end":6272.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6273.00846875,"end":6274.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6275.100968750001,"end":6275.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6276.2147187499995,"end":6281.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6281.665343750001,"end":6283.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6284.26409375,"end":6288.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6288.263468749999,"end":6296.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6297.25784375,"end":6303.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6304.17659375,"end":6313.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6313.356593750001,"end":6314.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6315.044093750001,"end":6320.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6321.270968750001,"end":6327.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6327.514718750001,"end":6333.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6334.14659375,"end":6338.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6338.905343750001,"end":6342.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6342.58409375,"end":6344.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6344.91284375,"end":6348.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6348.52409375,"end":6348.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6349.46909375,"end":6356.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6357.34971875,"end":6359.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6360.404093749999,"end":6371.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6371.91284375,"end":6381.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6381.95346875,"end":6386.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6386.45909375,"end":6393.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6394.2215937500005,"end":6396.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6396.43221875,"end":6398.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6398.50784375,"end":6399.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6399.67221875,"end":6402.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6402.52409375,"end":6405.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6406.18596875,"end":6407.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6408.39659375,"end":6411.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6412.32846875,"end":6413.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6414.52221875,"end":6435.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6436.577843749999,"end":6443.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6444.94784375,"end":6445.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6446.669093750001,"end":6451.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6452.22096875,"end":6453.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6454.583468750001,"end":6461.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6461.755343750001,"end":6477.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6478.073468750001,"end":6481.718468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6482.25846875,"end":6487.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6488.198468750001,"end":6488.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6489.00846875,"end":6518.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6518.32034375,"end":6520.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6520.4803437499995,"end":6521.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6522.11721875,"end":6523.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6523.450343750001,"end":6525.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6525.91409375,"end":6527.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6527.567843750001,"end":6530.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6535.2459687499995,"end":6562.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6563.9334687499995,"end":6579.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6580.2684687500005,"end":6586.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6587.339093750001,"end":6587.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6587.389718750001,"end":6596.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6596.434718750001,"end":6598.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6598.51034375,"end":6639.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6639.651593750001,"end":6656.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6656.8134687500005,"end":6657.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6658.14659375,"end":6671.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6671.950343750001,"end":6681.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6682.64909375,"end":6684.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6685.12971875,"end":6696.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6701.63346875,"end":6705.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6706.13909375,"end":6724.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6724.448468750001,"end":6739.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6740.39534375,"end":6745.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6745.94721875,"end":6746.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6746.92596875,"end":6756.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6757.23659375,"end":6758.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6758.805968750001,"end":6759.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6759.95346875,"end":6764.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6764.999093750001,"end":6767.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6767.44596875,"end":6774.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6774.465968750001,"end":6782.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6783.325343750001,"end":6794.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6794.850968750001,"end":6796.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6797.17971875,"end":6805.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6806.849093750001,"end":6817.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6817.767218750001,"end":6849.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6850.3865937499995,"end":6853.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6853.71096875,"end":6915.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6916.165343750001,"end":6941.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6941.41034375,"end":6954.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6955.4334687499995,"end":6970.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6970.78971875,"end":7010.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7011.6103437500005,"end":7015.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7015.55909375,"end":7026.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7026.89909375,"end":7031.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7031.87721875,"end":7036.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7037.2772187499995,"end":7040.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7041.02346875,"end":7072.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7072.731593750001,"end":7075.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7076.0897187499995,"end":7077.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7078.38471875,"end":7080.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7080.52784375,"end":7082.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7082.232218749999,"end":7083.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7084.1053437499995,"end":7094.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7094.83784375,"end":7104.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7104.7772187499995,"end":7111.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7111.307843750001,"end":7112.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7122.782843750001,"end":7168.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7168.51409375,"end":7185.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7186.73909375,"end":7259.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7260.21284375,"end":7409.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7409.995343750001,"end":7434.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7435.071593750001,"end":7454.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7454.73096875,"end":7455.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7455.591593749999,"end":7456.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7457.07659375,"end":7457.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7459.169093750001,"end":7463.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7467.977843750001,"end":7474.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7474.13721875,"end":7492.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7492.3622187500005,"end":7527.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7527.86721875,"end":7639.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7639.66409375,"end":7674.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7674.84846875,"end":7674.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7674.966593749999,"end":7680.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7680.974093750001,"end":7681.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7681.1259687500005,"end":7681.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7681.42971875,"end":7681.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7681.446593750001,"end":7681.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7681.46346875,"end":7681.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7681.4803437499995,"end":7799.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7799.6053437499995,"end":7822.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7822.89284375,"end":7863.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7863.224093750001,"end":7887.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7887.169718749999,"end":7889.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7889.751593750001,"end":7905.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7906.00221875,"end":7914.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7915.165343750001,"end":7919.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7927.04534375,"end":7933.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7933.626593750001,"end":7936.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7936.815968750001,"end":7940.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7940.68034375,"end":7943.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7944.038468750001,"end":7948.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7949.40471875,"end":8004.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8004.82221875,"end":8067.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8067.546593750001,"end":8101.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8101.70159375,"end":8208.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8210.24159375,"end":8226.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8227.31909375,"end":8232.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8238.08534375,"end":8246.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8246.35409375,"end":8250.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8250.437843750002,"end":8251.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8251.31534375,"end":8258.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8258.52096875,"end":8272.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8272.93221875,"end":8299.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8299.594718750002,"end":8317.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8317.887218750002,"end":8320.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8320.33409375,"end":8370.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8371.12784375,"end":8381.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8381.20221875,"end":8390.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8390.820968750002,"end":8394.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8394.65159375,"end":8407.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8407.98284375,"end":8412.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8412.15096875,"end":8415.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8415.644093750001,"end":8426.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8427.996593750002,"end":8429.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8429.903468750003,"end":8436.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8437.159718750001,"end":8438.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8438.77971875,"end":8439.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8439.977843750003,"end":8459.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8460.109718750002,"end":8462.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8462.809718750003,"end":8471.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8471.399093750002,"end":8482.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8482.92471875,"end":8507.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8508.355343750001,"end":8511.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8511.578468750002,"end":8515.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8515.628468750001,"end":8532.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8533.634093750003,"end":8534.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8534.66346875,"end":8535.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8544.19784375,"end":8555.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8556.550343750001,"end":8557.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8557.96784375,"end":8561.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8562.01784375,"end":8564.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8565.359093750001,"end":8570.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8570.539718750002,"end":8573.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8574.167843750001,"end":8576.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8577.05346875,"end":8579.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8580.023468750001,"end":8585.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8586.13221875,"end":8593.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8593.72596875,"end":8596.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8597.269718750002,"end":8598.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8599.058468750001,"end":8603.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8604.05346875,"end":8606.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8607.37784375,"end":8621.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8621.67096875,"end":8633.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8633.90534375,"end":8637.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8637.95534375,"end":8641.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8641.769093750001,"end":8647.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8648.02971875,"end":8650.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8651.15159375,"end":8655.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8655.539093750001,"end":8658.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8658.72846875,"end":8662.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8662.96409375,"end":8663.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8663.75721875,"end":8667.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8668.296593750001,"end":8669.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8670.27096875,"end":8672.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8673.055343750002,"end":8678.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8678.860343750002,"end":8683.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8684.19284375,"end":8692.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8692.44471875,"end":8696.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8696.511593750001,"end":8698.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8699.81909375,"end":8707.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8707.328468750002,"end":8714.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8715.31034375,"end":8717.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8717.976593750001,"end":8720.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8720.980343750001,"end":8722.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8722.566593750002,"end":8723.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8723.69721875,"end":8725.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8725.90784375,"end":8727.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8728.000343750002,"end":8729.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8730.480968750002,"end":8734.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8734.969718750002,"end":8738.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8738.42909375,"end":8742.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8742.968468750001,"end":8747.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8748.97596875,"end":8758.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8758.93221875,"end":8763.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8763.79221875,"end":8765.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8765.597843750002,"end":8779.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8780.414093750001,"end":8785.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8785.34159375,"end":8785.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8785.35846875,"end":8785.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8786.320343750001,"end":8792.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8792.294093750003,"end":8796.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8796.985343750002,"end":8798.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8799.11159375,"end":8801.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8801.406593750002,"end":8821.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8822.16284375,"end":8823.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8824.32284375,"end":8824.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8825.38596875,"end":8831.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8831.81534375,"end":8833.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8833.75596875,"end":8836.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8836.844093750002,"end":8845.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8845.804718750001,"end":8847.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8847.82971875,"end":8851.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8851.761593750001,"end":8853.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8853.75284375,"end":8859.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8859.524093750002,"end":8861.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8861.532218750002,"end":8862.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8862.46034375,"end":8875.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8875.74096875,"end":8884.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8884.937843750002,"end":8885.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8885.59596875,"end":8901.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8902.63971875,"end":8903.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8903.98971875,"end":8907.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8915.61659375,"end":8916.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8916.105968750002,"end":8919.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8919.632843750001,"end":8922.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8923.024718750003,"end":8926.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8926.46721875,"end":8933.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8933.875343750002,"end":8935.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8935.664093750001,"end":8939.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8939.81534375,"end":8946.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8947.25721875,"end":8958.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8959.187843750002,"end":8960.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8961.16221875,"end":8963.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8963.997218750003,"end":8977.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8977.81784375,"end":8985.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8985.985343750002,"end":8990.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8990.659718750001,"end":8995.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8995.77284375,"end":9005.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9005.273468750001,"end":9020.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9020.579093750002,"end":9021.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9021.50721875,"end":9025.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9025.540343750003,"end":9033.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9034.079093750002,"end":9037.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9037.26846875,"end":9052.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9052.97909375,"end":9068.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9069.128468750001,"end":9072.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9072.722843750002,"end":9075.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9075.59159375,"end":9081.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9081.66659375,"end":9088.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9088.534718750001,"end":9093.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9093.546593750001,"end":9096.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9096.972218750001,"end":9099.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9099.570968750002,"end":9101.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9102.38909375,"end":9104.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9104.582843750002,"end":9106.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9106.641593750002,"end":9119.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9119.78721875,"end":9122.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9123.43221875,"end":9128.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9128.96721875,"end":9131.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9132.578468750002,"end":9136.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9136.83096875,"end":9142.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9142.804718750001,"end":9150.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9151.613468750002,"end":9152.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9152.42346875,"end":9152.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9153.672218750002,"end":9153.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9153.97596875,"end":9187.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9187.97909375,"end":9189.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9189.59909375,"end":9193.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9193.649093750002,"end":9197.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9197.699093750001,"end":9198.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9199.032218750002,"end":9256.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9256.94721875,"end":9269.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9269.72159375,"end":9271.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9271.98284375,"end":9284.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9296.856593750003,"end":9298.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9298.39221875,"end":9299.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9300.180968750003,"end":9312.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9312.33096875,"end":9312.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9313.27596875,"end":9317.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9317.69721875,"end":9341.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9341.71034375,"end":9359.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9360.171593750001,"end":9368.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9368.524718750003,"end":9396.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9396.452843750001,"end":9401.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9401.59971875,"end":9404.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9404.67096875,"end":9410.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9410.67846875,"end":9432.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9434.08409375,"end":9437.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9437.62784375,"end":9448.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9449.11971875,"end":9451.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9452.157218750002,"end":9453.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9453.60846875,"end":9462.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9463.31159375,"end":9465.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9466.062218750001,"end":9468.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9468.32346875,"end":9470.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9470.88846875,"end":9472.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9473.284718750001,"end":9490.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9501.938468750002,"end":9530.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9531.28409375,"end":9616.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9616.317218750002,"end":9621.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9622.18971875,"end":9666.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9667.53284375,"end":9672.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9673.33784375,"end":9676.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9677.590343750002,"end":9706.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9707.847218750001,"end":9746.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9747.199718750002,"end":9748.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9749.27534375,"end":9762.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9763.26471875,"end":9802.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9802.39784375,"end":9810.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9811.071593750003,"end":9855.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9859.688468750002,"end":9860.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9860.59971875,"end":9861.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9862.101593750001,"end":9863.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9863.586593750002,"end":9866.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9867.113468750002,"end":9867.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9867.957218750002,"end":9868.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9869.93159375,"end":9871.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9872.09159375,"end":9872.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9872.817218750002,"end":9880.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9881.37284375,"end":9883.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9883.92096875,"end":9887.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9887.80221875,"end":9891.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9891.852218750002,"end":9892.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9893.25284375,"end":9894.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9894.78846875,"end":9896.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9896.66159375,"end":9899.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9899.817218750002,"end":9902.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9902.53409375,"end":9903.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9904.52534375,"end":9906.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9907.309718750003,"end":9908.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9908.625968750002,"end":9912.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9913.38471875,"end":9916.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9917.75534375,"end":9919.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9921.41721875,"end":9921.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9923.15534375,"end":9925.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9926.36159375,"end":9929.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9929.871593750002,"end":9933.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9933.43221875,"end":9934.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9934.984718750002,"end":9939.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9940.266593750002,"end":9940.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9942.780968750001,"end":9943.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9944.50221875,"end":9949.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9950.52659375,"end":9951.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9951.87659375,"end":9955.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9955.74096875,"end":9957.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9957.917843750001,"end":9958.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9958.67721875,"end":9959.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9959.53784375,"end":9961.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9961.84971875,"end":9962.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9962.879093750002,"end":9966.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9967.48596875,"end":9967.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9968.34659375,"end":9970.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9971.29971875,"end":9973.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9973.88159375,"end":9974.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9975.83909375,"end":9976.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9976.919093750003,"end":9978.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9978.67409375,"end":9980.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9980.83409375,"end":9982.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9983.247218750003,"end":9983.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9984.36096875,"end":9987.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9987.719093750002,"end":9988.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9988.42784375,"end":9988.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9989.00159375,"end":9989.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9990.73971875,"end":9992.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9992.562218750001,"end":9993.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9993.86159375,"end":9995.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9995.481593750003,"end":9997.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9998.046593750001,"end":10001.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10001.269718750002,"end":10002.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10002.88971875,"end":10006.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10006.73721875,"end":10008.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10009.57221875,"end":10015.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10016.32221875,"end":10019.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10020.96284375,"end":10022.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10023.730343750001,"end":10036.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10036.26846875,"end":10038.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10038.462218750003,"end":10040.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10041.297218750002,"end":10041.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10041.85409375,"end":10044.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10044.503468750001,"end":10048.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10048.48596875,"end":10048.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10048.840343750002,"end":10054.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10055.691593750002,"end":10058.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10058.442218750002,"end":10061.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10062.35721875,"end":10065.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10065.27659375,"end":10065.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10066.20471875,"end":10071.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10072.11096875,"end":10078.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10080.210968750001,"end":10103.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10080.683468750001,"end":10080.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10104.49409375,"end":10134.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10134.44721875,"end":10135.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10136.10096875,"end":10138.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10139.813468750002,"end":10140.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10141.484093750001,"end":10183.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10184.481593750003,"end":10204.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10204.69784375,"end":10206.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10213.894718750002,"end":10217.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10217.30346875,"end":10219.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10220.172218750002,"end":10221.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10221.67409375,"end":10224.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10224.542843750001,"end":10227.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10227.934718750003,"end":10230.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10231.242218750001,"end":10232.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10232.524718750003,"end":10237.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10239.12284375,"end":10240.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10240.253468750001,"end":10242.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10242.750968750002,"end":10247.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10247.56034375,"end":10250.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10250.53034375,"end":10254.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10254.58034375,"end":10256.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10256.52096875,"end":10258.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10258.360343750002,"end":10259.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10259.69346875,"end":10260.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10261.27971875,"end":10265.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10266.56159375,"end":10267.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10267.65846875,"end":10269.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10269.61596875,"end":10271.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10271.72534375,"end":10273.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10274.08784375,"end":10275.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10275.94409375,"end":10278.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10279.67346875,"end":10280.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10280.73659375,"end":10285.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10285.815968750001,"end":10290.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10291.300343750001,"end":10293.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10293.96659375,"end":10296.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10296.34596875,"end":10298.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10299.24846875,"end":10301.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10302.15096875,"end":10303.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10303.63596875,"end":10305.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10305.390968750002,"end":10308.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10308.41159375,"end":10311.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10312.42784375,"end":10313.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10313.71034375,"end":10316.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10317.28784375,"end":10318.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10318.11471875,"end":10321.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10322.08034375,"end":10323.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10324.105343750001,"end":10324.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10324.78034375,"end":10328.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10328.425343750001,"end":10330.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10330.973468750002,"end":10334.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10334.922218750002,"end":10335.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10336.035968750002,"end":10336.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10337.149718750003,"end":10338.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10339.680968750003,"end":10342.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10343.055968750003,"end":10343.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10343.899718750003,"end":10344.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10344.574718750002,"end":10345.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10345.418468750002,"end":10348.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10349.789093750001,"end":10352.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10352.961593750002,"end":10354.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10354.78409375,"end":10357.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10357.652843750002,"end":10358.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10358.918468750002,"end":10359.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10360.25159375,"end":10363.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10364.21721875,"end":10365.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10366.140968750002,"end":10367.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10367.406593750002,"end":10370.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10371.16971875,"end":10372.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10372.43534375,"end":10375.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10375.844093750002,"end":10376.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10377.12659375,"end":10378.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10378.628468750001,"end":10379.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10379.337218750003,"end":10380.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10381.24409375,"end":10382.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10383.235343750002,"end":10384.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10384.88909375,"end":10387.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10388.26409375,"end":10389.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10390.019093750001,"end":10393.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10393.42784375,"end":10395.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10395.60471875,"end":10396.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10397.309093750002,"end":10399.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10399.60409375,"end":10401.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10401.96659375,"end":10402.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10402.320968750002,"end":10404.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10405.122218750003,"end":10405.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10407.14721875,"end":10408.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10408.73346875,"end":10413.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10413.559718750003,"end":10416.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10416.546593750001,"end":10417.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10418.79096875,"end":10420.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10421.254718750002,"end":10425.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10425.70971875,"end":10428.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10428.61221875,"end":10431.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10432.122218750003,"end":10434.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10434.82221875,"end":10436.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10437.218468750001,"end":10438.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10439.00721875,"end":10442.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10443.36096875,"end":10444.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10444.980968750002,"end":10447.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10447.664093750001,"end":10448.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10449.300968750002,"end":10450.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10450.95471875,"end":10452.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10453.08096875,"end":10454.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10455.08909375,"end":10457.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10457.56971875,"end":10460.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10460.961593750002,"end":10461.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10461.78846875,"end":10463.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10463.45909375,"end":10465.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10466.395343750002,"end":10466.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10467.03659375,"end":10467.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10468.133468750002,"end":10469.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10469.972843750002,"end":10470.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10471.06971875,"end":10473.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10473.80346875,"end":10473.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10473.887843750003,"end":10476.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10476.520343750002,"end":10478.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10478.528468750003,"end":10479.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10479.524093750002,"end":10480.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10480.469093750002,"end":10484.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10485.227843750003,"end":10486.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10487.10096875,"end":10487.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10487.792843750001,"end":10490.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10490.93159375,"end":10493.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10493.445968750002,"end":10497.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10497.58034375,"end":10498.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10499.26784375,"end":10501.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10501.394093750001,"end":10503.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10505.207843750002,"end":10506.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10506.945968750002,"end":10506.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10508.22846875,"end":10511.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10511.24909375,"end":10512.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10512.700343750003,"end":10513.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10514.640968750002,"end":10515.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10515.46784375,"end":10515.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10516.649093750002,"end":10517.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10517.77971875,"end":10518.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10517.847218750001,"end":10520.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10519.72034375,"end":10521.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10522.184093750002,"end":10523.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10523.027843750002,"end":10523.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10523.68596875,"end":10529.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10530.300968750002,"end":10576.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10576.757843750001,"end":10583.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10583.91284375,"end":10584.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10584.469718750002,"end":10586.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10586.562218750001,"end":10587.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10587.92909375,"end":10591.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10591.540343750003,"end":10602.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10603.20096875,"end":10622.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10622.759093750003,"end":10629.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10629.660968750002,"end":10631.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10631.702843750001,"end":10637.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10646.87346875,"end":10650.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10650.77159375,"end":10651.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10652.40846875,"end":10664.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10664.44034375,"end":10668.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10669.418468750002,"end":10679.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10679.47596875,"end":10683.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10684.09971875,"end":10696.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10696.418468750002,"end":10701.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10702.24034375,"end":10705.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10706.070968750002,"end":10711.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10711.84221875,"end":10713.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10713.74909375,"end":10715.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10715.824718750002,"end":10718.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10718.32221875,"end":10719.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10720.27971875,"end":10724.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10724.886593750001,"end":10736.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10736.715968750003,"end":10745.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10745.71034375,"end":10746.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10746.80721875,"end":10766.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10768.05284375,"end":10770.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10771.12409375,"end":10773.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10774.07721875,"end":10794.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10794.69846875,"end":10807.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10808.45159375,"end":10813.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10813.379093750002,"end":10815.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10816.51784375,"end":10839.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10839.906593750002,"end":10847.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10848.15846875,"end":10854.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10855.262843750003,"end":10862.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10862.417843750001,"end":10873.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10873.67346875,"end":10877.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10878.06096875,"end":10929.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10930.305968750003,"end":10933.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10934.22096875,"end":10937.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10937.44409375,"end":10940.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10941.03846875,"end":10945.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10945.864718750003,"end":10947.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10947.88971875,"end":10951.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10953.84659375,"end":10954.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10954.454093750002,"end":10954.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10955.280968750001,"end":10956.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10961.254718750002,"end":10961.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10961.28846875,"end":10962.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10964.44409375,"end":10964.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10964.984093750001,"end":10977.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10977.87659375,"end":10994.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10995.03846875,"end":11048.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11049.409718750001,"end":11150.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11151.21659375,"end":11154.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11154.794093750003,"end":11157.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11157.679718750001,"end":11161.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11161.206593750001,"end":11161.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11164.31159375,"end":11226.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11226.69846875,"end":11243.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11244.062843750002,"end":11284.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11285.33909375,"end":11298.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11299.446593750003,"end":11335.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11336.605343750001,"end":11339.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11343.878468750001,"end":11347.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11347.55721875,"end":11350.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11350.864718750003,"end":11352.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11353.36221875,"end":11354.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11355.25221875,"end":11357.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11357.90159375,"end":11360.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11360.95596875,"end":11363.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11363.723468750002,"end":11366.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11366.676593750002,"end":11371.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11371.82346875,"end":11378.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11378.809718750003,"end":11387.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11387.95596875,"end":11396.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11396.29221875,"end":11403.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11404.577843750001,"end":11404.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11405.539718750002,"end":11408.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11409.03284375,"end":11411.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11411.73284375,"end":11413.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11414.078468750002,"end":11425.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11426.27909375,"end":11435.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11437.129718750002,"end":11450.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11451.473468750002,"end":11458.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11458.34159375,"end":11460.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11460.704093750002,"end":11508.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11509.523468750001,"end":11523.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11524.238468750002,"end":11530.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11530.02659375,"end":11530.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11530.90409375,"end":11530.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11530.92096875,"end":11530.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11532.86159375,"end":11552.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11552.352218750002,"end":11561.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11562.156593750002,"end":11563.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11571.235343750002,"end":11594.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11594.72534375,"end":11603.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11604.10784375,"end":11606.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11607.01034375,"end":11608.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11608.37721875,"end":11610.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11610.621593750002,"end":11612.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11612.612843750001,"end":11677.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11631.73221875,"end":11632.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11677.66596875,"end":11685.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11685.614093750002,"end":11685.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11686.37346875,"end":11686.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11687.26784375,"end":11690.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11690.558468750001,"end":11691.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11691.824093750001,"end":11697.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11698.101593750001,"end":11701.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11701.746593750002,"end":11703.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11704.26096875,"end":11705.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11705.762843750003,"end":11706.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11707.011593750001,"end":11710.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11710.454093750002,"end":11711.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11711.78721875,"end":11712.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11713.05284375,"end":11714.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11714.75721875,"end":11716.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11716.10721875,"end":11717.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11718.23346875,"end":11727.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11728.223468750002,"end":11730.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11730.45096875,"end":11733.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11734.24784375,"end":11735.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11735.78346875,"end":11736.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11737.11659375,"end":11746.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11747.27534375,"end":11752.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11752.962218750003,"end":11754.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11754.39659375,"end":11757.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11758.817843750003,"end":11761.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11762.14221875,"end":11763.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11764.302218750003,"end":11768.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11768.520968750003,"end":11774.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11774.34284375,"end":11797.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11797.562843750002,"end":11797.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11797.984718750002,"end":11799.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11799.90846875,"end":11800.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11801.12346875,"end":11808.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11808.83534375,"end":11811.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11811.214718750001,"end":11814.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11814.555968750003,"end":11821.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11822.06534375,"end":11837.03346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":293.544,"end":293.885,"text":"嗯嗯"},{"start":1741.633,"end":1768.305,"text":"好 我們現在呢 公聽會開始那首先歡迎今天歷齡的學者專家在場的委員還有政府機關代表來參與促進民間參與公共建設法第三條無人載具相關設施之建設及服務公聽會那麼在進行我們本地公聽會的目的之前我們先介紹一下在場的與會的學者專家跟政府機關代表"},{"start":1769.734,"end":1793.514,"text":"首先我們按照簽到的順序首先介紹第一位實踐大學資訊科技及通訊學系的龔志明 龔教授 歡迎您第二位是台灣車聯網產業協會吳萌芬理事長 歡迎您第三位是燕宣智能科技股份有限公司的孟廣韻執行長"},{"start":1796.64,"end":1812.876,"text":"第四位是台灣軍警戰術研究發展協會的陳柏宏常務理事接下來我們看到有來自國立台灣大學機械工程學系的李剛理教授以及第六位我們台灣防災產業協會的陳奕廷理事長"},{"start":1816.909,"end":1843.358,"text":"那後續如果有到場的學者專家代表我們再陸續補充現在還在簽名當中我們會隨時那接下來我們先介紹政府的機關代表首先是我們財政部的謝寧元常務次長歡迎您還有我們促參司的張素貞司長歡迎您接下來介紹經濟部是由產業發展署的周宇信副署長歡迎您"},{"start":1844.471,"end":1866.802,"text":"以及經濟部航太產業發展推動小組的簡志維簡主任歡迎您接下來是交通部關於交通產業發展及國際事務司的林茂雄副司長歡迎您以及民用航空局的耿華副組長歡迎您以及運輸研究所的陳祥傑副組長歡迎您"},{"start":1871.602,"end":1893.479,"text":"接下來內政部有國土策會中心的曾耀賢副主任歡迎您接下來是警政署的詹承傑詹科長歡迎您接下來是消防署的程士勛副組長歡迎您再來是我們農業部農業部是由林業及自然保育署的汪昭華汪處長歡迎您"},{"start":1894.966,"end":1916.539,"text":"然後還有動植物防疫檢疫署的陳宏博陳副署長 歡迎您還有我們來自農糧署的董珍檢任記證以及漁業署的莊申偉檢任記證 歡迎您接下來有衛福部的資訊處李建章處長 紀堅堅處長 歡迎您"},{"start":1920.441,"end":1948.784,"text":"接下來有行政院公共工程委員會企劃處的陳仲佑專門委員歡迎您接下來有國防部軍備局的張玉榮 張基和以及國防部的整合評估司的代理副處長李旺樹副處長接下來有台灣電力公司的劉建勳副總經理歡迎您以及中華郵政公司的柯清長柯處長歡迎您"},{"start":1951.019,"end":1961.747,"text":"還有中華電信有限公司行動產品署企業客戶分公司的李俊煌理事處長歡迎您"},{"start":1963.947,"end":1986.525,"text":"接下來我們學者專家剛剛拿到的簽名有第七位是鴻光科技大學智慧科技應用系的郭俊良郭教授謝謝歡迎您以及台翔航太工業股份有限公司的呂宣呂總經理歡迎您在場我們也同時有民間團體有來"},{"start":1989.271,"end":2011.397,"text":"參與旁聽的有一併介紹台灣無人機產業技術整合協會的池明洋理事還有無人機產業協會的林高裕理事這是有報名的以及有台灣房災產業協會的李仲志監事還有台灣富裕"},{"start":2012.719,"end":2036.317,"text":"企業的謝孟安謝董事長還有中光電智能機器人的王仲平協理我這裡都一併介紹因為可能他們報了名什麼時候到我們就讓與會的人互相知道還有智飛科技的林永仁共同創辦人台灣地理空間資訊的李錦昌理事長"},{"start":2037.398,"end":2056.651,"text":"富蘭登科技的裝品經理長榮航太科技的蔡志成課長以及新熱飛無人機的許新勝董事長雷虎科技的陳冠如董事長維生電裝工業的游山泉董事長航艦科技的張東林執行長台灣無人機科技"},{"start":2058.888,"end":2081.933,"text":"股份有限公司的陳建廷博士瑞麗科技的黃世昌資深協理廣銀電子的林鴻文董事長還有力昂公司的陳威鴻監察人安靜興創的李齊峰總經理沃能科技的吳凱處長還有許淑芬女士以及古富翔先生那這都是有來報名參與旁聽的"},{"start":2083.733,"end":2111.012,"text":"接下来我们就开始来与会的人员发言之前主席宣告每位发言时间八分钟结束前一分钟会按铃提醒原则上医学者专家之签到顺序发言如果有本院委员要发言会请到主席来登记每位五分钟全部发言并就请行政机关就业管全责整体回应如果有备有简报的要口头报告的"},{"start":2111.392,"end":2130.368,"text":"那麼也請到主席台這邊讓我們知道一下我們會安排給單位可能他要整體回應的時候他備有事先的簡報有3到5分鐘的時間可以進行簡報那目前我們的提綱的部分我想在提綱有書面就供大家參考那我這裡主席這邊請播放我的簡報播放還沒來嗎要放進去了簡報播放"},{"start":2143.639,"end":2157.73,"text":"沒有播放嗎等一下我看一下好那我們就先請第一位因為我是有準備簡報的部分來概括的說明一下本市為什麼我們的無人機"},{"start":2159.381,"end":2187.293,"text":"運用廣泛 市場潛力大那如何來促進民間參與完善基礎設施來說明一下我們的意旨那接下來我們先邀請第一位就是台灣就是實踐大學資訊科技與通訊學系的龔教授來發言時間八分鐘 請各位長官 各位專家學者各位學界的先進 大家好"},{"start":2188.035,"end":2216.961,"text":"那今天我們這個公聽會的最主要是要將無人載具相關的設施在如何納入這個促參法第三條的這個範疇的可行性的一些配套那我們知道就是說促參法基本上第三條最主要的是對於公共建設的一些規範包含這個交通 環保 水利 輪轎觀光等等15項分為一般的公共建設跟重大的公共建設"},{"start":2217.921,"end":2232.908,"text":"那可是這個裡面所奠定的這樣的一個基礎呢是能夠劃定民間可以去參與這個公共建設的一個範圍那我們也知道就是說事實上現在這個我們出產法現在目前最大的一個問題呢是在執行之後的一些"},{"start":2233.628,"end":2249.225,"text":"權利義務的一些分配還有成本還有一些收益等等還有一些條約的一些理解因為政府跟民間不太一樣所以在後來就會發生一些問題所以我們要如何的來解決這一個部分我想這個是一個比較"},{"start":2250.266,"end":2276.108,"text":"我們可能要努力要做的東西包含認知的落差還有履約過程的一些變數尤其我們在無人機這一塊事實上確實會發生這些事情為什麼呢因為我們無人載具現在已經不是娛樂的一個玩具而是一個核心的一個戰略的資產為什麼呢因為我們現在我們這個硬體的成熟度都已經達到了商用跟軍用的一個標準了"},{"start":2277.389,"end":2292.442,"text":"而且我們又注意到了一件事情就是說我們現在無人機陸陸續續的發展到現在它已經從單點的飛行轉成網狀的協作還有一件事情我們不是要飛機我們要的是什麼是它能夠飛的路"},{"start":2293.263,"end":2307.439,"text":"我想這個東西就是一個很重要的一個部分所以不管我們在做國防的一個監測物流 智慧的物流災害的救援國防還有這個等等的智慧的農業等等我們所需要的就是它的一些場域"},{"start":2308.761,"end":2327.82,"text":"這些場域基本上就符合了我們所提到的整個在促三法裡面去推動公共利益的一些核心價值所以我們在探討的第一件事情就是說把它納入公共建設的正當性當然我們確定的是它是一個符合正當性的部分"},{"start":2328.58,"end":2357.147,"text":"因為畢竟我們在無人機這一塊廣泛使用上的東西我們真正要用的是能夠真正的落地在龐大的地面基礎建設上面去建置無人機的這些空港甚至於指揮中心等等也落實了我們現在真的是缺乏的是空中的道路我想這個是一個我們必須要去了解的可是畢竟要去進行這些設施的一些建置就會發生一件事情就是有可能因為我們會發現一件事情"},{"start":2358.157,"end":2379.908,"text":"以前的公共建設它可能期程很長可是我們無人機是一個什麼是一個隨著時間演變很快速演變的一個部分所以變成說我們在整個我們出產法裡面可能會發生一些什麼法律可能沒有辦法符合比如說我們在整個處理方面可能比如說"},{"start":2380.768,"end":2393.396,"text":"比如說它整個在生命週期迭代的同時並沒有辦法符合所以這個如何去立法然後能夠讓我們民間能夠去確實的能夠去達到這樣的一個部分能夠機動的調整然後來做一個多元的數據的一個營收來達到我們所要的這樣的一個路參法能夠讓我們整個的國際戰略能夠做得更好我想這個是一個很特別的一個需求"},{"start":2408.46,"end":2433.665,"text":"而且我們也看到了就是說我們現在目前這個網狀的網路這個空中的道路要如何的來執行要如何的來做這個部分就應該我們想要的就是希望能夠促進修法然後來確認我們無人機的設施為公共建設這樣子民間的資源就能夠注入然後導致我們來形成我們公共建設的設施能夠做得更好"},{"start":2434.245,"end":2461.323,"text":"這樣子來講我們就可以達到增進公共的利益大幅降低政府的財政的負擔把我們預算留給核心的施政而且可以提升執行的效率利用我們民間企業的靈活性跟技術迭代的速度能夠使我們的執行效率能夠提升而且能夠使得產業聚落的效應能夠達到最佳政府作為一個監管者民間作為一個建設運營者來創造內需的需求"},{"start":2464.431,"end":2464.553,"text":"而且"},{"start":2466.365,"end":2491.096,"text":"我們剛剛也提到了因為無人機現在目前是一個屬於一個戰略的東西所以我們國安是不容去妥協的所以我們必須打造堅韌的非紅供應鏈的一個做法那如何來進行呢第一個當然在招標規範裡面我們就要去強制去請投標的廠商提出一些認證還有產地證明等等的來使用我們的關鍵的通訊或者是非控模組能夠排除紅色的供應鏈"},{"start":2494.917,"end":2514.637,"text":"還有就是政策的誘因可能我們在整個促參評選的機制上面來採用國產的一個技術或本土零件的廠商給予它額外的加分然後鼓勵我們供應鏈的在地化當然另外就是我們要進行一些安全的設計將我們的資安納入整個基礎建設的一個設計的一個階段"},{"start":2517.179,"end":2543.769,"text":"确保我们数据传输跟储存符合国家最高的安全的一个规则也就是说我们要有守门员的机制也就是严格的准入的审查然后要有推动者的机制让我们本土的产业能够激励我想这个就是我们在在处于我们的国安新防线这里提出的一些看法那当然提到了我们在"},{"start":2545.649,"end":2565.875,"text":"為了要解決無人機的技術的快速的迭代跟回收廠的週期的矛盾如何來解決呢當然我們可以運用做一些彈性的解方比如說滾動式的技術更新的方式所以我們可能想辦法如何改變本來的一些傳統的一些"},{"start":2568.597,"end":2591.072,"text":"然後變成能用滾動式的方式來提供民間能夠做更多的這樣的一個部分而且可能政府所買的就是買什麼買的是服務而不是單一的一個設備用服務的方法來做所以它提供由民間提供更每年提供更好的一個服務這樣子來講用服務的方法我想這也是一種可行的一個方式一個可行的一個方式好"},{"start":2594.596,"end":2619.833,"text":"當然還有另外一件事情就是我們也會發現現在在我們進行無人機的一些對於我們政府的部會的時候行政的一些官員的時候事實上會有一些非單一窗口的問題我們當然也希望能夠透過整合的模式由促參法來提供單一的窗口針對民航局 速發部還有地方政府還有經濟部能夠達到單一窗口"},{"start":2624.276,"end":2644.647,"text":"投資跟能夠增進我們的整個的發展以上是我的看法 謝謝好 謝謝非常感謝我們龔教授那接下來第二位呢就由我們台灣車聯的吳門芬吳理事長那這邊做一個第三位就由主席來這邊做一個報告好 請吳理事長請"},{"start":2649.99,"end":2666.737,"text":"主席 各部會的長官今天與會的各位學者專家各位出席的先進大家早安非常榮幸今天有機會代表台灣車聯盟產業協會以及台灣無人機大聯盟來出席今天的這個公聽會"},{"start":2668.278,"end":2682.827,"text":"事實上我首先要對於各部會在過去這幾年的時間配合相關的國家政策推動很多有關智慧載具包括無人駕駛的車輛或者是空中的無人機"},{"start":2684.993,"end":2702.838,"text":"海上运行的无人船有很多的所谓的这个概念认证POC的计划那也获得很多很好的成果但目前其实在全世界在推动低空经济是正在一个网上爆发的一个阶段"},{"start":2703.598,"end":2722.991,"text":"那麼台灣為了迎接這個整個國際的趨勢或者是符合民眾的期待怎麼樣帶來進一步的推展我們的低空經濟甚至無人載具智慧運輸的這些載具能夠進入到所謂的服務驗證到商業驗證的這個階段是"},{"start":2725.072,"end":2740.505,"text":"處在一個非常關鍵的時間那針對今天我們其實在這個促參法的第三條修正草案有幾個版本都有提出來就是說希望能夠增列第16項的智慧載具相關的設施等"},{"start":2741.926,"end":2766.621,"text":"我個人或者是我們協會跟大聯盟都表示支持雖然在第15項的數位建設應該也已經涵蓋到這個部分但是如果能夠把它具體的把它揭露出來可能更能夠有助於鼓勵各界尤其是民間的部門乃至於我們政府部門更大一步的推動我們相關的這個促餐服務的工作"},{"start":2768.582,"end":2775.189,"text":"針對今天的五個提綱我個人也提供了一些我們協會也提供了一些書面資料在這個"},{"start":2776.727,"end":2803.329,"text":"所謂的這個正當性部分事實上它我剛剛已經講了它是符合數位建設的那在排他級公共利益的部分剛剛也有學者提到事實上這個是一個服務的公共化那如果我們從這個無人機的執行救災國土的測惠偏鄉的物流它所產生的利益是包括這個快速的救援醫療平權都是全民可共享的一個公共服務"},{"start":2804.15,"end":2827.311,"text":"那麼在一些所謂的這個充電站起降場的這些設施也可以透過適當的設計讓它在並沒有提供緊急服務的時候能夠釋放出來提供給其他民間機關來使用尤其在這個目前的這些無人機或者相關的智慧載具都是符合五大信貸產業以及2050的這個淨零台灣部分"},{"start":2829.813,"end":2857.26,"text":"那我想很多的具體的績效都可以顯現在各方面的領域裡面那在這個如何強化我們的這個飛鴻供應鏈那事實上台灣因為受到飛鴻供應鏈的這樣的一個機遇我們在二零二五年在一到十月份的出口已經突破五千四百七十五萬美元已經較前一年提供了十一點四倍的這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":2859.081,"end":2877.359,"text":"在資安也有相關的這些檢測以及晶片發展的一些補助計畫我是建議就是說在晶片的研發的部分能夠透過抗干擾的通訊以及AI的邊緣運算晶片來有更多的投注以及能夠"},{"start":2879.181,"end":2893.57,"text":"這個彈性的採購規範甚至特別是在商務用途上面的這個航路的規劃以及專案申請程序的簡化這個都需要有關部會如何來因應大家的需要來進一步的來提升"},{"start":2894.23,"end":2909.186,"text":"那有关财务是否可行的部分事实上我们在这个初餐2.0已经把PIP进行了放进来那如果透过所谓的这个政府有偿起的公共服务的方式应该可以有适当的设计"},{"start":2910.287,"end":2923.9,"text":"相關的這些飛機雖然它的迭代比較快但是如果我們能夠以績效來作為付費的依據的話就是PFI的依據的話可能是更有可能的"},{"start":2924.522,"end":2940.736,"text":"那在UTM以及ATM的部分目前也都已經有相關的一個琢磨那我們是進一步能夠由中央政府跟地方政府來合力來進一步讓他可以落地那當然產業應該要全力來配合那"},{"start":2942.162,"end":2960.268,"text":"特別在這個所謂的這個空中物流的部分雖然已經有一些POC可是在都會區裡面的POC乃至於這個將來這個所謂的這個空中的這個旅客運輸的部分那麼很需要來做進一步的沙盒規劃那也可以跟國際來接軌"},{"start":2961.969,"end":2986.07,"text":"我想一個新的技術系統的服務進入到民間或者是大家我們的社會有四個重要的支柱第一個就是說技術發展是不是已經成熟我們看到美國看到很多其他地區的發展事實上已經到了一個台灣應該要進入的機會是不是有可營運的商業模式我覺得透過"},{"start":2987.411,"end":3006.898,"text":"這個PPP然後公司協力應該可以找到可行的這個商業計劃書那麼在這個法規與政策的部分呢那就是特別我們今天這個修法或者相關部會更多的政策支持資源投入來協助那麼其實"},{"start":3008.078,"end":3035.876,"text":"在智慧運輸載具的需求已經是全民共同的期待所以在技術發展可行來質疑說政府的政策是否支持到位有沒有可行的營運模式以及民眾的需求這四大部分都已經是到了一個時間點所以我們很支持今天的假設說我們可以把進一步來強化修法的話"},{"start":3036.616,"end":3061.321,"text":"特別是在二零二九年台北市要辦理全世界的智慧運輸大會我相信台北市一定有很多的這個所謂的無人智慧運輸載具的3D包括陸海空商方面的這個需求那以上的潛艦提供給大會及各位來指正謝謝好 謝謝吳理事長那待會在本席做一個簡報跟"},{"start":3063.294,"end":3070.751,"text":"今天的冬天會說明之後呢在接下來由孟執行長孟 網運孟執行來執行來 我現在就開始進行簡報可以齁"},{"start":3076.664,"end":3102.601,"text":"好 那麼請播出好 那因為準備了簡報讓方便大家了解今天召開這個公聽會主要是要探討關於無人機因為運用廣泛 市場潛力大而且我們如何促進民間參與來完善相關所需的基礎設施那首先要回到出產法是什麼那跟無人機有何關聯那我們看到出產法第一條就是為了提升公共服務水準加速經濟"},{"start":3104.002,"end":3124.007,"text":"社會經濟發展促進民間參與公共建設那簡單講呢就是在政府所應該要執行的公共建設當中我們找出有自償性值得民間投資的那透過租稅優惠或融資協助來尋找一個出差的模式這種情況之下就無需動用政府"},{"start":3124.727,"end":3150.448,"text":"的公務預算而能夠透過民間的資金參與來完善我們整個社會經濟發展所需要的各項基礎設施那本項提案成如剛剛吳理事長所說的其實在出產法目前數位環境本來已經涵蓋但是我們希望能夠更加明確的針對無人載具的部分能夠去思考有哪些的公共基礎設施本來應該由政府來積極的籌建"},{"start":3151.989,"end":3167.441,"text":"但是由於它具有這樣的出餐的特質我們今天找出來讓民間可以共同來參與那本次提案呢有包括了王振旭 郭育晴 李柏毅及徐富奎等多位委員都有提出好 那麼接下來我們看到說到無人機啊"},{"start":3167.921,"end":3195.228,"text":"大部分的民眾腦海浮起的就是一個國防的軍工產業或是用來軍警執法 警察執法甚至是消防救災所以我們看到很多的報紙標題都放在軍方採購上面其實沒有錯無人機之所以被廣泛注目其實無人載具不只是無人機但是無人機顯然容易吸引社會的目光包括用來偵查打擊或者是對陣的作戰這在軍事方面"},{"start":3195.888,"end":3211.59,"text":"那就警察的部分他可以執行即時反應還可以透過科技執法那對於消防救災的部分他可以監測搜救還可以投放物資未來我們都看到這些是載具當中無人機最為民眾所熟知的"},{"start":3212.111,"end":3233.435,"text":"但是我们再往下看其实无人机早就飞进了我们的生活当中从农业部包括一开始做的植保机他做农药肥料的施肥等等他事实上还可以做到什么做到农作物生长状况的监控包括水产养殖这种广域型的农业生产都可以透过无人机来判断"},{"start":3233.975,"end":3253.004,"text":"目前農作或者是續產或者是水產的生長狀況那其實談到交通部其實我們的物流配送其實在地面包括未來的無人車甚至現在已經大家在思考的像有沒有可能無人的空運就是以貨運為主的無人空運"},{"start":3253.664,"end":3275.374,"text":"都可能扮演著這樣未來甚至是跨國跨洋的這樣的需求同時在物流的部分其實在龐大的倉儲設備當中是否無人載具多軸的無人機它事實上也可以來進行倉儲盤點的功能這樣的一個智慧機器人事實上未來的應用是非常廣泛"},{"start":3276.074,"end":3303.206,"text":"至於醫療就更不用說了事實上衛福部已經在去年的災害當中成功地試著在偏遠災區投放這些必要的藥品或者說像蛇毒血清比如說登山客被毒蛇咬你把人搬下山的一個方法另外一個方法就是把藥品送上山甚至在未來無人載具的承重安全性更提高之後甚至緊急的傷員後送"},{"start":3303.806,"end":3320.84,"text":"都可以透過這樣的無人載具去執行其實這個在烏克蘭的戰場已經成功的展現出透過無人車能夠地面的載具將傷源從敵後方把它運回到我們運回到我方的一個控制的領域那至於"},{"start":3321.54,"end":3350.416,"text":"在策会摄影的部分目前我们的国土策会早就在应用了那除了及时的画面拍摄之外呢还可以透过多角度的摄影呢来建立更完整的地面的图姿那至于交通的部分有人在想象说有人的短程交通或者说要很迅速的透过复杂地形的障碍那核心当中其实就有三个重点无人机因为它没有人员的伤亡顾虑它适合去执行高危险的任务避免人员暴露在危险当中"},{"start":3350.976,"end":3370.237,"text":"第二個它是突破空間的控制那麼因為我們知道垂直的一向是我們人員移動的困難所以突破了空間甚至最後無人載具由於它可以重複的使用它可以降低我們人力的成本好 那麼無人載具的潛力我們看到了包括有人在推估"},{"start":3370.877,"end":3394.293,"text":"复合的年度成长率高达7.3%产业的总值高达578亿美元商用市场先不谈目前的军用商规各国在采购其实更大的市场是在商用的部分但是无人载具的数量预期可以不断的提升不是只有无人载具的制造业引起大家的注意机体本身之外它需要相对应的设施像什么往下看"},{"start":3395.174,"end":3413.693,"text":"其实不只要制造载具还要完善基础设施譬如说我们看到这样的新闻60架空拍机干扰结果国庆烟火取消无人机的演出为什么会有这种情况又或者说军方突然划设了无人机进飞区那么农会这些支保机就透过农会表达希望能够暂缓"},{"start":3414.113,"end":3436.545,"text":"也就是說在各種的公益需求跟私人的商業當中我們的競合如何去求取法規上的平衡到底需要哪些基礎設施具有正常性可以帶來收益所以我們希望各方協調也需要軟硬體設施的配合所以這就是為什麼我們來探討政府應該除了法令之外我們也要一些基礎設施的配合舉例來講我們看到有哪些呢"},{"start":3437.085,"end":3461.857,"text":"譬如說數位空域的管理系統UTM包括航路的規劃等等包括專用的起降廠剛剛有代表提出了未來的隨之起降或者都市據點的建設又或者說安全及隱私的防護設備像電子圍籬避免撞到城市的高樓又或者說剛剛有理事長提到的充電與換電的基礎設施自動換電站又或者說我們看到通訊局導航的增強設備"},{"start":3463.018,"end":3477.139,"text":"因為目前我們在目前的空域當中大概是以有人航空為主在佈置這樣的一個導航的系統那未來無人機的低空經濟它是不是要怎麼跟有人航空做區隔我想這也是需要一些基礎設施的盤點"},{"start":3478.36,"end":3497.539,"text":"另外像大型的轉運或物流中心其實這些載具的中轉或者說物品的轉運無人機不再只是輕巧的多軸無人機那種小型的跟拍機而已事實上未來無人機的貨運物流它可以扮演更大的角色所以這些的基礎設施都要相對應的一些政府的投入"},{"start":3498.42,"end":3524.586,"text":"因此今天我們希望能夠在其他學者專家的報告之外我們也來思考一下到底這樣的一個環境基礎建設有哪些具有公共建設性質而當中哪些具有自償性我們希望能夠由各界來提供建言是否相關的設施屬於公共建設是否能夠建立自償性性民營投資有沒有遺漏或者需要政府來補充的今天就以這幾點來就教於所有的學者專家謝謝"},{"start":3528.339,"end":3530.261,"text":"我們下一位就是由賴思寶委員來進行發言 謝謝"},{"start":3556.956,"end":3576.236,"text":"主席各位先進那麼有關於今天的這個公聽會就是促成法裡面第三條的修正案在第三條裡面的第一項第16款要增加第16款就是智慧載具相關的設施"},{"start":3577.037,"end":3600.696,"text":"在說明欄裡面這個講得很清楚而且是最近執政黨的委員密集的好幾個委員都提了類似一個提案這個提案就是說要發展把智慧載具相關的設施就是無人機方面的相關設施放進來可是說明欄又講得非常清楚它是這個"},{"start":3602.937,"end":3627.384,"text":"這裡面除了生產研發設施以外包括起降停靠設施平日訓練的航飛型場域有沒有過程測試的場域等等當然一提的話無人機產業屬於所謂的五大信賴產業賴總統要推動的五大產業"},{"start":3628.769,"end":3647.041,"text":"沒有理由反對但是我們要提出幾個問題我個人提出幾個問題希望在我們未來的修法過程裡面相關的部會 特別財政部要特別去注意的地方因為出產條例 各位從民國91年民國91年到現在為止用出產條例"},{"start":3656.761,"end":3684.64,"text":"裡面 租產法裡面適用的對象從來沒有針對特定產業從來沒有基本上就是給地方政府的比如說水溝 公園 停車場等等的因為這裡面這裡面有提供很多的優惠包括土地租金的優惠包括補貼 貸款利息包括重大公共建設或者交通建設"},{"start":3686.101,"end":3707.235,"text":"因索稅 而且投資的支出還抵減這個財政部提供非常多的優惠鼓勵民間或者BOT 或者OT 或者ROT等等的所以在這種情況之下大概都是以地方政府為主比如說113年的台南市立醫院"},{"start":3707.955,"end":3722.271,"text":"的興建114年高雄都會公園停車場以及114年的新竹市的水資源水資源的設施桃園婦女的相關的一些活動的設施等等的"},{"start":3723.132,"end":3738.762,"text":"你就可以發現到說過去的初五餐法適用的都是地方政府的建設地方政府所需要的在113年總共用的是131件金額也就是1588億平均每一件大概12億 這金額都很小tiny tiny的金額"},{"start":3745.606,"end":3746.687,"text":"這是地方政府加一個智慧載具的相關設施那就非常大囉看起來相關的設施就是要提供很大的場地"},{"start":3760.915,"end":3769.521,"text":"這個場地不知道去哪裡了等於圈地一樣 圈了一塊的場地做無人機的訓練起降的訓練 研發的訓練畢竟那是無人機嘛 無人載具嘛那這裡面就在 我剛剛提到了土地資金的優惠啊這個補貼貸款的利息啊這個土地 所以這裡面我要強調的一個重點就是"},{"start":3784.56,"end":3807.409,"text":"出產條例我們都熱情啟程而且老實講 每一年件數都不多你看113年才100多件 平均一件12億這個東西小 就代表什麼意思代表說國人對這一塊興趣度不高"},{"start":3809.107,"end":3823.66,"text":"那針對今天來說的話如果說你看那個說明欄裡面是針對五大信賴產業剛好最近台美關稅談妥了這一部分我們去投資直接間接的5000億美金2500億直接投資2500億政府保證"},{"start":3829.005,"end":3842.343,"text":"融資所以政府可能要去成立一個或者立一個新的法把8000億台幣放進來或者原來的中小信保基金現在升不到100億要增加到8000億這裡面都是"},{"start":3845.266,"end":3848.63,"text":"還需要去解決的如果是這樣子的話那我們也可以提半導體的相關設施我們也可以提生技產業的相關設施因為這個是五大信賴產業裡面的五大信賴產業有哪些呢"},{"start":3863.227,"end":3883.697,"text":"國防安全 這個無人載具屬於國防安全的話次世代通訊 生物科技 人工智慧 半導體這個都是在所謂的五大信賴產業所以今天我要強調的是如果把這16款加進來那17 18都可以加進來生物產業的發展設施也可以放進來"},{"start":3891.221,"end":3915.414,"text":"國防安全 其他的相關產業也可以放進去為什麼只有五輪機其他也有 我要製造我們現在台灣要發展自主的國防 自主的兵工業對 放進來所以我覺得這個要很慎重我覺得今天這個來講很慎重因為這樣的一個立法 修法"},{"start":3917.114,"end":3930.839,"text":"針對特定產業給出產的一些獎勵不可不慎因為如果稍微不慎就會掉入是不是有圖利特定廠商都已經想好了"},{"start":3931.539,"end":3946.325,"text":"哪幾個商商可能要進來所以我們要開這個門讓他來享受土地租金的優惠貸款利息的補貼以及銀索稅的減免以及投資的支出還可以扣抵這樣你讚所以這個我就總結一句話"},{"start":3950.667,"end":3953.951,"text":"總結一句話 促參條例適度的鬆綁 範圍擴大我個人贊成因為畢竟過去十幾年來績效其實不怎麼樣這個每年才100多件就1000多億 總共一件就12億這個金額實在太少 但是呢"},{"start":3967.908,"end":3993.297,"text":"過去都是以地方政府為主我倒覺得如果你要講要Echo五大信貸產業那把相關的產業都放進來生物園區也可以放進來他的相關設施可以放進來這個國安的方面放進來AI我們政府已經在做了統統放進來那這樣子可以是不是政府來企業也來然後我們也鼓勵就大家一起來所以否則的話那就會"},{"start":3995.878,"end":4005.827,"text":"讓外界打一個問號是不是要圖利特定的廠商好不好我把我以上的看法以及比較擔心的部分特別講出來請各位指教感謝 謝謝好 謝謝賴氏寶委員接下來下一位我們請孟廣韻執行長"},{"start":4027.228,"end":4048.973,"text":"主席 主席委員 主席長官在座的葉介希 您大家好我是燕宣智能科技執行長 我姓孟 孟廣韻接下來我花一點點時間跟主席長官報告跟分享一下我們從2020年跟著學院單位然後做的一些針對AAM跟UTM相關的一些研究的這部分的說明"},{"start":4051.039,"end":4068.627,"text":"首先我要先說明一下名詞解釋AAM就是美國的FAA跟NASA在2020年所提出來的一個名詞在這之前這個名詞只限縮在所謂的UAM就是Urban Air Mobility"},{"start":4070.348,"end":4089.689,"text":"那後來發現到Focus on在都會型的這個部分之內其實是太過於限縮所以它就是把整個都會跟區域的空中交通的整個發展歸納變成一個AAM就是Advanced Air Mobility這樣的一個概念"},{"start":4091.271,"end":4107.903,"text":"同樣在2020年NASA跟FAA那邊的話也有提出來一個針對於低高度低高度的一個空域的一個交通管制這樣的一個概念的說明所以這個部分的話是先跟主委長先分享一下那下一頁"},{"start":4111.335,"end":4132.482,"text":"所以在我要完成整個大的AAM的這樣的一個框架裡面我必須要先思考到低高度的這個部分的空中管制所以在這邊的話其實就是聚焦在400次以下的關鍵空域因為AAM的 對不起可以再下一點"},{"start":4134.42,"end":4152.294,"text":"因為AAM的願景是涵蓋了剛剛吳某芬理事長然後跟專案兵委員有提到的就是未來的就是載人的載人的EV樓的這些航空的這部分的載具可是以低高度來說低高度來說會從SUAS也就是現在"},{"start":4155.216,"end":4165.568,"text":"這個台灣非常這個這個發展非常非常好的這些無人機的這個小型無人機的這個空域低高度空域開始所以呢再回到前面一頁 對不起"},{"start":4166.775,"end":4190.101,"text":"所以在這一個框架下頭 整個AM的這部分的發展必須要先思考到400呎以下的低高露這部分的相關的空管這部分的發展最主要的它的核心的挑戰的話是因為它的密度最高 障礙物最多 剛剛中央秘密委員事實上也有提到所以是跟地面有人互動最頻繁的這部分的空域"},{"start":4192.455,"end":4213.757,"text":"好 再下一頁所以整個基礎建設的這部分的核心的話其實有兩大面向第一個的話就是我們必須要保障到整個飛航的安全因為無人機不光光只是飛在低高度它可能飛到國家空域也就是500尺以上的國家空域如何去避免到空中的碰撞同樣也必須要保障"},{"start":4214.578,"end":4240.01,"text":"地面上面的人的隱私跟安寧當然的話無人機掉下來就是大家都不樂見的所以如何去在這個面向的話就是生命跟產生的安全的話也是為什麼要建立這個基礎建設核心的目的當然我無人機飛得多了我才有辦法去促進產業的發展我才有辦法去公拍我才有辦法去做物流我還要去做部分撒藥等等這些相關的部分應用"},{"start":4242.705,"end":4260.632,"text":"所以那要如何去實踐,2020年在FAA的整理下面,它提出來的一個UTM的框架,這個圖超級複雜,其實只要分成兩半,左邊那一半就是由公部門所做的飛航資訊管理的資訊系統,"},{"start":4261.852,"end":4278.905,"text":"那右邊這邊的話其實就是可以由民間所來扮演的這些相關的服務服務誰服務UAS就是小型無人機的相關的這個運營商運營商或者是製造商的這個部分的業者那他的整個"},{"start":4281.104,"end":4307.529,"text":"它整個核心的三個步驟第一個的話就是我要管我必須要先知道它在哪裡好 那現在的話事實上無人機飛在天上的話我們都不太知道它在哪裡好 各無人機製造商都知道它的飛機在哪裡可是空運的話不光是只有自己一個人在用的那其他人飛在哪裡所以我就必須要有一個統一的統一個的一個識別的這個部分的機制那在國外的practice來說的話其實就是叫做remote ID"},{"start":4308.729,"end":4333.047,"text":"那我知道我飛在天上我就必須要知道它在哪裡那就有另外一個infrastructure其實就是我必須要有很多的detection就是感測的這部分的裝置知道無人機的話現在飛在到哪一個空域的這個位置不光是A廠商 B廠商 C廠商都可以在一個融合的平台裡面了解它的information"},{"start":4333.767,"end":4354.104,"text":"知道他的資訊之後我們經理機關或者是給無人機的製造商無人機的運營商他才有辦法進行下一部分的管理提供他的非常營運的時候的一些相關的警示跟其他廠商這部分的隔離所以他希望達到的目的"},{"start":4355.769,"end":4375.891,"text":"達到了目的的話其實第一個的話就是我們航空有個term叫做狀態感知我要知道自己在哪裡我要知道別人在哪裡我要知道山在哪裡我要知道水在哪裡我要知道建築物在哪裡我要知道天候的狀況到底適不適合第一個部分其實狀態感知第二個部分其實就是當有任何"},{"start":4376.912,"end":4394.466,"text":"危害的時候或者有任何風險的時候我必須要提供警示提供警示然後做到最後一個部分才有辦法去針對於這些風險進行所謂的分散或者是所謂的避讓這樣的一個目的那怎麼做剛剛在前面的話我們有提到所以監理基礎的整個"},{"start":4403.27,"end":4421.318,"text":"基礎建設這部分基礎的話其實第一個就是需要做到感知也就是在國外在美國在歐盟在日本在新加坡已經立法而且已經實施的這個remote ID就是要在無人機上面的話要掛所謂的數位的車牌這樣的一個概念"},{"start":4421.898,"end":4438.747,"text":"那它是提供每一架無人機的一個單一的識別碼提供它的位置 高度 速度跟航向還有操作人也就是它起飛點的這個部分的位置那它的重要性的話其實沒有識別就沒有管理我根本就不知道它在那裡我如何去管好 下一頁"},{"start":4440.56,"end":4458.208,"text":"那在FAA那邊的話他把Remote ID分成兩大部分事實上現在在美國歐盟日本這個新加坡所做的話基本上是透過藍芽或Wi-Fi的方式發送出來的Direct Remote ID或者是廣播式的Remote ID再下一頁"},{"start":4460.53,"end":4486.571,"text":"國際上面的發展的分成幾大部分第一個當然就是法規啦美國在FAA的話有個PAR89事實上就我所知道的話民航局這邊的話也積極的在跟學員單位在擬定這個無人機相關的這個應該說射頻識別相關的這部分的法規那第二個部分其實剛剛在前面UTM的這個框架裡面有提到政府應該要主導就是國家級的這個飛航資訊管理系統當然必須要鼓勵民間的單位共同來協助跟參與讓整個"},{"start":4488.092,"end":4511.574,"text":"低高度空域環境的發展可以變得更好當然的話也必須要場域的這個部分的驗證所以歸結一下就是要跨領域的這個部分的合作來落實民間參與基礎建設的部分發展然後促進低高度無人機智慧智慧應用的產業Remote ID跟未來的UTM是這個市場的一個關鍵的組件以上"},{"start":4514.34,"end":4519.661,"text":"谢谢孟哲先生接下来我们请陈伯红传物理事"},{"start":4531.657,"end":4556.653,"text":"主席各列席機關的長官還有各位學者專家還有各位先進大家好我是陳柏宏那我就自己的專業提出一些我的看法有些問題可能不是就是之後才會存在現在還是依然存在的從這個商規軍用無人機這個案子發展以來到現在"},{"start":4558.014,"end":4582.487,"text":"首先我要講的是非策空域的問題我想各位業者應該很有感台灣的無人機製造應該在這幾年算是非常蓬勃的發展可是業者可能遇到最大的問題就是我們沒有足夠的非策空域你要發展一個純國產的無人機產業但是業者沒有辦法在國內"},{"start":4584.388,"end":4611.222,"text":"进行足够时间的飞行测试这个飞测的时间可能还要排才能够排得出来这个状况其实我觉得在法规上可能要进一步的去思考要松绑或者是要划定特定的区域来供无人机操作跟测试第二个是关于国产这件事情纯国产"},{"start":4612.382,"end":4639.051,"text":"我想大家都是很在乎非紅供應鏈這個東西那當然剛剛也有學者專家有提到就是說在國產上面可以給這些純國產的廠商加分可是我們必須面對一個現實就是很多東西目前台灣就是沒有辦法國產全世界都沒有國產有些東西的原物料就是來自於中國比方說無人機的電池的電芯"},{"start":4640.251,"end":4655.259,"text":"那這樣子的東西如果說我們直接的把它放進法規裡的話那可能會帶來的是更多的限制而不是發展那我覺得當然這個東西我們可以思考就是說我們是不是用循序漸進的方式"},{"start":4656.44,"end":4680.939,"text":"要求廠商除了給出產地的證明之外另一方面這些次系統或者是零組件的國產化可能也需要時間來進行安排像這種原物料的東西你說你要有時間進行安排像電池這種稀土原物料"},{"start":4681.699,"end":4701.139,"text":"你再怎麼給他時間台灣也不會突然出現稀土礦所以如何在這個時間內把這些資源比方說我們原來主要採購的對象是中國轉移到其他國家或者是與其他國家進行合作生產我覺得這個是一個比較務實的做法"},{"start":4703.562,"end":4723.46,"text":"第三個是講到規格與需求我想就是因為現場有軍備局的長官我想因為軍方很習慣講規格但是我想要再提醒一次就是說其實很多東西我們需要民間需要看到的是需求"},{"start":4725.301,"end":4746.53,"text":"政府在採購的時候很多時候都是只講規格規格有時候會落入一些爭議我認為未來政府在進行相關的修法或者是相關無人機的需求的時候應該要以單位的需求為出發而不是都落實在規格上面"},{"start":4748.274,"end":4763.498,"text":"那第四個我還是要提醒就是說就是無人機產業看來是一個未來的趨勢但是相對應的產業會帶來新的工作機會但是也會對原有的勞動權益帶來衝擊"},{"start":4765.419,"end":4779.796,"text":"那這個進一步的衝擊會擴大到什麼程度那要如何去緩解這個衝擊對原有的這些勞動者他們的權益或者是要輔導他們轉職要怎麼做我想這個也是要思考的"},{"start":4780.837,"end":4798.482,"text":"那第五個就是剛剛有聽到不管是委員或者是學者專家討論到的這些未來我覺得未來的願景都是很美好的可是我們還是要回到現實的層面來想就是說美好未來的基礎是什麼"},{"start":4799.182,"end":4817.141,"text":"美好未来的基础应该是完整覆盖的基础建设比方说是通讯的建设比方说相关的监管的建设刚刚其实孟子行长才有讲到而已那第六个我要讲的就是说国内市场跟国际市场"},{"start":4818.021,"end":4845.362,"text":"現在大家都好像很著重在無人機我記得2021年我剛開始研究無人相關的系統的時候台灣數得出來或者是說網路上搜尋得到的無人機廠商不到10家現在大概超過200家這短短的幾年台灣無人機產業是有爆炸性的成長但是台灣國內的市場有這麼大的需求嗎"},{"start":4846.423,"end":4863.098,"text":"我們未來有可能現在國軍已經要買五萬架無人機了但是那是消耗性的東西那是會消失的東西大家可以想像就是說國內有這麼大的需求有這麼大的貨運吞吐量"},{"start":4864.239,"end":4878.934,"text":"需要十几万架无人机无人机的成长一定会有限制所以除了刚刚就是促三法我们里面讨论到的就是迭代的这个问题因为无人机的迭代对产业来说也是很重要的事情要迭代产业才有更新的机会"},{"start":4879.855,"end":4896.225,"text":"那除了迭代的問題之外或許台灣應該要思考的是如何成為在巨宏供應鏈成為國際主流的同時成為國際的供應節點而不是只是著重在國內的市場而已"},{"start":4897.265,"end":4923.759,"text":"那第七個我要講的是安全與國安我這邊講安全議題就是大概跟就是軍事或者是國安是比較相關的剛剛大家討論到的這些不管是監管系統主要都是靠這個無人機主動的一個收發的一個晶片來識別告知就是說無人機的所在位置可是我們其實在做軍事研究的時候發現其實相關的這些規定"},{"start":4924.899,"end":4943.744,"text":"到最後我們只是在防君子不會防小人為什麼比方說自製的黑飛無人機或者是特製的這種軍用的這種規格的你是完全無法去控制的那在未來如果說有一天是滿天都是無人機的情況之下我們如果只納入這種"},{"start":4945.484,"end":4971.344,"text":"被動式的監管系統我想是不太切實際的所以我認為或許應該要納入主動監控的設施比方說低空域的無人機感測雷達這樣子的部件其實還能夠納入更多廠商也跟台灣的專門就是台灣擅長的部分比方說半導體的製作是有非常直接的關係"},{"start":4973.305,"end":4992.635,"text":"第八個就是無人載具並不是只有飛行器其實剛剛大家有講到今天大家比較多是在討論空中飛行器但是其實空中 陸上跟水上相關場景的應用配合其實我想這個都是未來可以再做思考然後可以再擴大的以上 謝謝大家謝謝我們陳常務理事接下來我們請李剛教授"},{"start":5009.848,"end":5037.002,"text":"主席還有在場各位部會的長官代表還有我們專家學者大家好今天很榮幸接受邀請來參加這場無人機的這個公聽會我是蠻贊同就是說我們台灣現在發展無人載具其實是國際上現在各國也是全面開始在發展它的這種應用服務"},{"start":5038.563,"end":5064.37,"text":"我們台灣是一個比較出口導向的一個經濟的思維但是我們也看到像經濟部提供的簡報裡面可能有一些測試場域的規劃但是跟這個我們真正要在做這種應用的服務其實還有很多的落差那相關的部會在做的還是一些比較POC很遷期的一些pro concept都靠一些政府"},{"start":5064.99,"end":5091.823,"text":"的一些經費所以這個還距離真正商用到真正的所謂的revenue service還有蠻大段的距離那其中有一個我們要提醒就是說其實我們各部會應該是要一起來討論就是說這無人載具的這個帶動的產業其實它相關的產業包括AI供應鏈無線通訊晶片各方面甚至連機械製造加工複合材料等等都在裡面"},{"start":5092.743,"end":5113.416,"text":"所以我也是想說回應剛剛賴時保委員說他擔心會有圖利什麼特定產業事實上無人載具產業如果你看海陸空加水上水下它將來甚至是一個新的兆元產業它沒有所謂的只有一個單一個產業或是所謂只有電子業事實上這個是大家要釐清的一個點"},{"start":5114.497,"end":5126.41,"text":"那台灣很大的機會就是事實上當前賴總統也提到我們應該發展是民主供應鏈因為一個產業我們台灣要推動產業其實應該要想的是怎麼跟國際連結跟國際供應鏈連結"},{"start":5130.213,"end":5147.279,"text":"這裡面台灣有很好的機會就是像剛剛前面吳萌芬理事長有提到現在其實當前就是一個去紅的問題甚至這個國際上以前G7現在都被稱為像是G2變成是中美兩個在角力那台灣從中得利"},{"start":5147.819,"end":5160.079,"text":"那台灣最好的機會應該是我們要跟國際的這些比較有優勢研發資源優勢的這個廠商大的這個廠商來合作那我們可以在early stage就能夠打入它的供應鏈"},{"start":5161.089,"end":5187.127,"text":"那回到這個促餐的這件事情我覺得應該台灣應該還是要積極去發展多面向的可能的無人載具的應用服務的一些商業跟他的服務的模式那這裡面就會有可能會有需要譬如說有政府要能夠讓更多有這個資源的這些大的集團也願意投入譬如說我們現在如果要發展離島的這個運補"},{"start":5189.468,"end":5216.361,"text":"或是我們的這個偏向的運輸事實上這個都是需要有一些相關的infrastructure配套比如說比較中大型的無人機如果我們需要能夠載重可能到100公斤以上這樣子比較大型的中大型無人機目前國內其實這邊的技術是還不夠的甚至連軍方想要開的規格想要把所謂的payload要提高其實民間目前我們國產的並沒有100%滿足"},{"start":5218.843,"end":5229.717,"text":"但是這個有一個機會是跟國外的廠商我們也聽到說他們有意願把軍規的軍用路人機變成是給民用來做民用化那這也可以來讓我們台灣有機會來跟這個比如說鄰近的"},{"start":5234.623,"end":5255.373,"text":"甚至鄰近的國家可以來發展這樣的一個這種運輸就是一個無人載具運輸那甚至包括水上水面的這個傳播也是那這樣可以帶動台灣的產業其實不是只有我們講空中的無人機事實上無人船也有很大的機會尤其我們現在四面環海有很多的離島其實"},{"start":5257.334,"end":5285.775,"text":"我是建議說我們跨部會其實能夠採一個比較國際產業戰略高度去思考說怎麼去用這個促參的這樣的一個機會然後能夠甚至台灣應該更開放就是針對民主的國家更開放我們要怎麼樣招商引資讓台灣變成是一個更能夠吸引國際來投資一起來跟我們合作協作跟我們一起共同發展這個所謂無人載具的新的經濟"},{"start":5286.836,"end":5311.705,"text":"那像川普他上台川普他就說美國的空域是屬於美國人的所以前一陣子當然他們商務部FCC有一些禁令有關無人機的部分不過他修修改改但是我們可以看到在拜登卸任之前其實他們已經把車輛電子全面的針對中國這邊已經做了有下的禁令"},{"start":5312.265,"end":5339.42,"text":"所以其實我們就長期跟美方的互動也知道其實對於這種無人載具有敏感的甚至到自通訊的有關於AI晶片這部分其實他們也會全面對這個所謂的有對他們國安有疑慮的國家會做很多的限制所以這是台灣最好的機會那我們也希望說我們各部會在規劃的時候能夠是大家能夠"},{"start":5341.101,"end":5368.441,"text":"不是只有一個部會自己單一的業務去看這個問題而是這是台灣可能比較好的一個國際連結可以發展真正下一個護國神山產業的機會所以我是個人是表達是支持的就是我們這次這個修法把這個畜產也針對無人載具能夠把它納入但是我們必須先定義清楚這個整個產業涵蓋的面向以及我們的"},{"start":5369.621,"end":5396.021,"text":"能夠引進什麼樣的一個投資那政府應該相對應像譬如說空域剛剛我們也聽到一些專家學者也在表達其實這也是民間在反映的以我們台灣現在的進行區這麼多我們沒有做配套包括空中廊道的設計事實上我們要做所謂proof of businessPOC之後你要做PoB甚至到能夠真正revenue survey其實是不可能的"},{"start":5397.041,"end":5409.993,"text":"這也是我們希望再次呼籲就是各部會能夠能夠積極的能夠就以上幾點可以能夠比較proactive一點來做這樣的討論以上 謝謝謝謝李教授接下來我們請陳奕廷理事長"},{"start":5424.266,"end":5443.824,"text":"主席各位先進那我代表房災財產協會那針對這個部分進行一些相關發言那我想剛才聽了非常多的一些意見跟一些想法那其實我想針對今天要討論提綱的一些內容我大概簡單的表達我的一些想法第一個就是有關於在整個無人就是我們要討論第一個部分就是有關於"},{"start":5444.584,"end":5460.542,"text":"纳入公共建设这件事情第一个事情的话我想我们全力的表达支持那我所谓表达支持的部分其实我想在整个无人机跟其他的无人载具跟其他应用来讲我想比较不一样的地方就是说无人载具跨了包括系统整合"},{"start":5461.038,"end":5475.908,"text":"包括你基礎建設包括你的商業服務雖然我們在所謂的這個公共建設計畫裡面比如說你第一個你已經有交通建設了比如說你第十一個你已經有工業跟科技相關的一些部分那比如說你第十五個是有數位建設"},{"start":5476.648,"end":5494.729,"text":"可是基本上來講在整個無人載具的運營上來講其實是跨三個領域的部分所以其實我們強烈的去支持就是說能夠把它獨立出來來去做這樣的一個運用跟這些相關的一個推動的部分我覺得這是一個很必要的一個事情那第二個事情來看的話就是我們在看其實"},{"start":5495.269,"end":5514.891,"text":"再把這樣的東西納入所謂的公共建設的計畫裡面來講其實我們一直在想的是包括所謂的各國在推動所謂的無人載具的這些PPP的一個相關的模式其實我們可以來看就是說這樣的一個局勢來看的話其實它代表的一種意義就是由政府來造局"},{"start":5515.431,"end":5537.364,"text":"民間來組隊一起來服務這件事情我們來看歐美的趨勢是怎麼做歐美其實他們在做無人採魚推動包括無人機的相關推動來講他們其實是以所謂的地方弱點測試的部分所以基本上來講的話他是由地方政府來提出來由FAA來做審核驗證通過之後他會自行場域來進行相關的驗證"},{"start":5539.585,"end":5566.486,"text":"那亞洲的部分包括韓國包括日本你會發現比較不一樣的部分它是由民間的大財團來去做這些相關的個資那韓國來看的話你就是會比較特別是它包括航空業 電信業包括它的地產相關的這些業者的部分他們共同來去交投資然後進行所謂的整個空服務載具的部分因為其實不管是無人機你畢竟還是要有一個所謂的這個所謂的停靠點"},{"start":5567.026,"end":5592.271,"text":"所以包括你未來載的無人機UAM的話你還是有一個這個所謂的Voloport的部分所以這個東西我想你還是會有土地的一個相關的部分另外一個部分台灣我想我們在過去的過程裡面其實我們做了非常多IPP做了非常多不管是橋樑檢測那物流的偏鄉的這個離島的驗證還有所謂的這個我們在偏鄉的這個防救災的一些部分其實我們做非常多"},{"start":5592.931,"end":5610.751,"text":"其實剛才我想吳理事長提到很重要台灣其實有很重要是我們在關鍵性的晶片自主這件事情來講的話台灣這一塊我們做得還不錯這個也是我們後續可以來積極加以去做一些相關推動的部分所以我覺得很重要是在就是說我們怎麼去透過政策的驅動讓民間產業"},{"start":5612.873,"end":5634.141,"text":"能夠接招然後進行所謂的服務的落地這是很重要的一個事情我們來看剛才提到美國其實就是由地方政府提案由民間廠商像這種Juby或是Altra這樣的公司來去做相關的接招進行FAA的這些預測的認證跟核准之後進行所謂的"},{"start":5635.257,"end":5660.714,"text":"運點的試行的部分所以這樣的過程裡面來講你會發現其實它所有的東西非常的嚴謹包括政府有需求民間來處理另外中央政府來做監管然後去做定點的一個訊息那韓國比較特別的是韓國它包括現代機車大安航空還有它的這個KT的電信業者其實他們去做一些還包括仁川機場的部分都在裡面所以這裡面來講的話其實他們解決了"},{"start":5662.535,"end":5690.736,"text":"包括系統整合包括基礎建設包括各項的一些落地的部分他們在這裡面都去做這樣的一個推那日本呢他其實為了在他們這一次的這個大阪世博會的部分包括野村不動產包括JR包括日本航空其實他們中正起來來建立所謂的無人機的這一塊的一個一個驗證跟部分所以你會發現其實透過一些所謂大型Event的部分政府給政策之後民間產業的這些投入的部分是很重要的一個事情那民間產業如果"},{"start":5692.257,"end":5707.105,"text":"以台灣現在目前那樣我們在無人機這一塊的話其實我們大概以中小企業為主所以怎麼吸引更大的這些民間的財團力量的部分我想這是一個很重要的事情那你會看另外一個事情就是在"},{"start":5707.765,"end":5726.236,"text":"不管是英國或阿聯酋其實他們很重要都是從法規標準當作事先的一個運行所以我想我們在制定這些所謂的這個民間公共投資的部分的話其實很重要包括我們治安包括我們的標準包括我們未來驗證的部分這些東西的話是我們必須要事先來核定來去做這件事情"},{"start":5727.196,"end":5756.238,"text":"台湾我想我们在回归到我们的第二项的部分就是说我们政府在这个所谓的费用供应链这件事情台湾我想这个我们也非常感谢我们的行政副院长郑立军我想今天刚好回来那15%这件事情我想对台湾来讲是一个很大的一个胜利那包括河大集团他们现在目前在纽约的水牛城的部分他们也接了台湾的一些团体希望在美国"},{"start":5756.698,"end":5780.833,"text":"去做無人機的所謂的產業的園區那未來我們在這些關鍵性零組件的部分不管是在晶片或等等的部分我們台灣能夠自組另外的話我們透過這些我們的聯盟國家的部分我們也能夠透過這樣的方式來去到美國生產這樣的方式來講的話強化我們在無人機自組這一塊的話我們有更大的一個利基點跟我們的輸出的部分"},{"start":5782.173,"end":5809.066,"text":"我想另外的話就是第四項的部分我想剛才吳理事長提到包括龔老師也提到我們應該用所謂的購買服務代替所謂的建制另外用績效來代替付費這件事情我想我們在建這些所謂的公建計畫的時候其實在這裡面非常重要傳統性來講我們會有一些商業服務會有它的營收的部分可是你的這些很多像比如說防救災等等這些事情基本上"},{"start":5809.426,"end":5837.544,"text":"你就很難有所謂的商業服務模式那你要怎麼來去做必須要用績效必須用服務的方式的採購來去能夠去代這件事那最後一點的話我想有關於在這個管理跟UTM這件事情這也是一個很重要的事情就是說其實我想我們跟民航局在針對於所謂的無人機管理這件事情我們不斷的再去做一些相關討論包括美國FAA跟EASA他們在有關的無人機監管的部分其實都有不同的做法"},{"start":5837.944,"end":5852.212,"text":"美國來講的話應該做太多所以基本上來講由FAA來定標準之後民間能夠符合UTM管理的這些公司透過FAA的驗證通過之後他就有能力能夠協助地方政府來去管這個所有無人機"},{"start":5853.513,"end":5881.685,"text":"歐洲比較不一樣歐洲來講的話德國跟英國他們其實他們比較做法的部分是Follow IASA的標準由政府加民間共同來成立一個所謂的無人機的監管公司UTM的監管公司透過這樣的方式他能夠在一定的法規跟政策支持之下能夠讓這些企業能夠來去營運這件事情相對應來講的話他在整個在國際接軌跟各項"},{"start":5882.566,"end":5894.538,"text":"資料的標準的一個串接的時候他也能夠達到一定的一個績效那以上是我的建議 謝謝好 非常謝謝陳理事長接下來我們請郭俊良助理教授"},{"start":5904.762,"end":5925.264,"text":"各位委員 各位長官及各位財務卿先進 大家好我個人針對於促贓法納入無人載具相關設施這邊提出三點的一個建議主要就是第一個 在排他性的部分我是建議說重新定義所謂的公共性的一個部分"},{"start":5926.295,"end":5947.433,"text":"我們這個無人載具的目前大部分探討都是在所謂的實體設施的建設的一個部分我可以建議說我們可以有部分的部分就可以傳向在數位網路的一個部分我們可以將這樣的一個設施定義成一個新型代的數位交通的一個基礎建設"},{"start":5949.214,"end":5971.52,"text":"其中包含說像產育的建設的一個部分像起降場充電站雖然在空間上它具有所謂的一個排他性但是它支撐所謂的一個防災監測跟醫療救援還有偏鄉物流有一個不可缺的一個重要性那也具備高度的一個公共的一個利益那我建議在"},{"start":5972.62,"end":5997.965,"text":"促餐企業中明定公平接入條款確保設施在特定時段或緊急狀況下優先開放給政府單位公務部門及第三方執行公共任務以化解其排他性的爭議因為我們的無人機它的一個技術的更迭非常的快速以往的促餐"},{"start":5999.286,"end":6023.748,"text":"次負方法長達20年到30年的一個特許模式並不是那麼的適合那建議是因為無人機它的硬體更新週期大概在3到5年左右那建議採行滾動式的一個技術更新的一個條款的方式在財務的一個模型中預留比較高的一個設置重置的預備金"},{"start":6025.35,"end":6036.346,"text":"政府可以考慮有償的PPP模式以降低民間在企業以及技術淘汰因為過快而面臨投資的風險確保整個產業的營運"},{"start":6040.892,"end":6065.394,"text":"在強化飛鴻工藝鏈及國家安全的佈局的部分因為確實我們這幾年因為要飛鴻的一個要求國內的一個無人機廠商事實上是有點辛苦因為主要在從前無人機的一個部分它的一個市場的供需並不是那明顯這幾年有比較高的一個突破"},{"start":6066.215,"end":6093.033,"text":"那我建議說我們可以從兩方面來著手第一個就是從研發那研發的部分是建議說政府在政府的補助計畫中能夠對無人機相關的一個技術的研發能夠有比較大的一個支持那另外一個就是在所謂的採購的部分那目前政府已經在國軍級工部門的部分已經有規範飛鴻供應鏈的無人機採購"},{"start":6096.455,"end":6123.626,"text":"希望說能夠更對於有部分的採購的部分可以稍微放寬一下關鍵零組件如同通訊或是飛行控制的飛控電腦的部分嚴格採取飛紅的部分建議有部分的小型的零組件甚至說一些比較次要的次系統的部分可以著量開放"},{"start":6128.064,"end":6156.123,"text":"那另外就是在UTM发展的这个低空经济的核心的一个部分那建议我们行政院能够来统筹各部门的一个需求那将无人机的设施跟5G的通讯网络能够来做结合避免资源的重复投资那尽早制定AAM的四行跟航路的一个规范"},{"start":6157.043,"end":6179.08,"text":"以上 謝謝謝謝我們郭助理教授接下來我們請呂宜萱總經理呂宜萱總經理有在場嗎台鄉航太工業股份有限公司麻煩請慢慢來"},{"start":6192.763,"end":6217.375,"text":"召委以及各位委員各位長官各位先進大家好今天非常高興有機會來參加出產法修正的第三條條例的部分台向航太本身過去是在專注在航太產業的投資所以今天我會從這個場域驗證服務跟生態系的建構提出產業第一線的實務建議"},{"start":6218.536,"end":6241.707,"text":"建議來提供給委員們修法上的參考這個我們大家都知道近幾年無人機產業發展非常的快速不論是在採購或者是外銷方面都是持續加速的成長中我們可以看到過去政府投入相當多的政策資源特別是經濟部"},{"start":6243.888,"end":6269.921,"text":"推動無人機跟無人載具的產業發展涵蓋的面向包括系統廠商 式系統跟關鍵零組件 軟體模組而這些的努力我們可以看到對於產業界的幫助是有助益我們也高度的肯定但是我們在實務運作當中我們也看到一些逐漸我們必須要正視的一些結構性的問題"},{"start":6271.502,"end":6295.954,"text":"比如說我們無人機次系統廠商要如何讓它更強大讓它更成熟我們系統廠商如果拿到再多的訂單或者是補助但是從長期來看它還是很難建立長期的競爭力換句話說無人機的系統廠商也就是SI它不是憑空長出來的它是需要足夠的養分"},{"start":6297.394,"end":6319.579,"text":"所以這正是來自穩定可以整合可以被驗證的次系統的供應鏈所以我們在信型的制度上這個養分的供應目前它是斷裂的所以我想提出來目前產業界普遍面臨到的幾個核心問題希望各部會能夠來重視"},{"start":6321.331,"end":6347.585,"text":"第一點就是無人機廠商不管是在SI或者是次系統廠商他們長期剛剛前面幾位先進都有提到我們缺乏一個長期合法可以使用的測試場域這個包括有固定的空域高度層還有海上空域長時間的飛測還有反覆的測試能力這個對於次系統開發來講也就是說沒有場域就是沒有迭代"},{"start":6350.045,"end":6370.031,"text":"這個就是需要具體的驗證場域可以做實際的戰績的演練的地方第二 特定空域的申請程序目前是相當困難而且高度的不確定尤其對於中小型的subsystem的廠商來說這幾乎是一個無法跨越的門檻"},{"start":6372.272,"end":6397.692,"text":"這個也導致許多的這個技術在實驗室階段就被迫停止了那第三點我要提出的是說特殊的無線電的頻段在使用上門檻過高那據我所了解目前這個是處於三不管地帶也就是說實際上在通訊抗干擾或者是編隊控制的部分這些都是無人機系統"},{"start":6398.553,"end":6413.049,"text":"核心能力很重要的一部分那麼在制度上其實它是很重要但是它不實用所以結果導致許多廠商最後都沒有真正去使用它第四"},{"start":6415.011,"end":6443.222,"text":"這個我剛剛提到Subsystem這些廠商他們就是缺乏早期整合的這個場域驗證的機會所以包括像這個飛控通訊光電動力跟地面導控站他們各自雖然有拿到政府的補助但是往往在做這個系統上進行臨時性整合的時候我們才發現他第一次真正接接在一起那麼問題呢就在那個時候才一次爆發出來"},{"start":6445.363,"end":6468.365,"text":"第五點有關於彈藥跟炸藥的管制品目前都在合法合規的架構下無法在合規的狀況下進行整合測試這也是目前在國防救災甚至在特殊任務的應用中往往無法迴避的一環這也是屬於一個三不管地帶"},{"start":6469.807,"end":6487.287,"text":"第六點 我們目前缺乏一個由實際數據建立的一個媒合驗證的平台比如說政府投資了什麼產業做了什麼成果而市場其實是沒有辦法做判斷也沒有辦法做有效的媒合"},{"start":6488.308,"end":6510.66,"text":"所以目前政府的補助計畫像科專計畫雖然要求廠商要通過民航局的認證作為指標但是我們可以常看到就是廠商拿到認證跟實際在任務中任務飛行穩定飛行中是兩回事"},{"start":6511.42,"end":6526.986,"text":"所以我這邊要提出說我們需要一個公正第三方的場域協助廠商在真實環境中能夠反覆的測試 立即排除問題可以將這些實戰可靠度記錄下來這樣做對廠商會有三個好處"},{"start":6535.273,"end":6559.523,"text":"第一個對廠商來說系統可以經過公正的驗證能夠快速取得市場跟使用者的信任那對於補助單位來說我們這個公務預算能夠轉化為可以實戰的技術這個錢也花得值得第三個對於民航局監管機構來看它有了第三方的先體測試跟數據的資源它能夠有效分擔這個審核認證的人力壓力"},{"start":6563.996,"end":6567.679,"text":"所以對於整體產業來說這個平台是能夠讓開發方、使用方、政府以及驗證單位能夠串聯起來讓這個產業資訊透明、媒合更精準那會形成一個越來越強的成長的迴圈如果我們把這些問題放在一起看我們就會發現一個事實就是說我們不是產業不努力"},{"start":6587.535,"end":6612.653,"text":"而是缺乏一個制度化可以長期穩定運作的整合跟驗證的公共服務的單位或者是機構所以我這邊特別提到就是說我們生態系是非常關鍵我們看了這麼多年我們經常被忽略的觀點就是說我們這個subsystem廠商最理想的成長路徑並不是透過系統廠商拿到訂單"},{"start":6613.593,"end":6638.896,"text":"最重要就是說它能夠在早期就透過這個驗證服務的平台可以跟其他次系統廠商一次進行整合甚至可以參與任務級的場域級的測試所以透過這樣的機制那麼他們次系統廠商就會知道它在真實任務中在哪裡卡關或者是跟其他模組之間的界面問題可靠度 穩定度等等"},{"start":6639.797,"end":6656.046,"text":"所產生的落差我們希望就是說透過這樣一個場域可以自然吸引系統廠商甚至測試的主導單位應用端的使用者來加入讓這個測試本身可以成為一個商機跟媒合的入口"},{"start":6656.926,"end":6681.536,"text":"所以我們基於這樣的理解我們認為整個無人機產業的生態系的飛輪才會真正的轉動起來而且會持續轉動所以基於這樣理解我們認為比如說像空軍基地旗下有一個台東泰馬里廠這是可以被拿來做運用的規劃載具系統的整合跟驗證服務以上建議 謝謝"},{"start":6685.185,"end":6695.845,"text":"好謝謝我們今天第八位的我們的那個呂宜萱呂總經理那目前剛好那個王振雄人到達他尋求發言我們請王委員時間五分鐘"},{"start":6702.453,"end":6723.344,"text":"好 謝謝主席今天很高興有機會一起來參與這樣的討論我這邊就針對我們的內容做一些意見的說明各位同仁 各位專家先進與會的機關代表大家好感謝召委召開這一場公聽會"},{"start":6724.725,"end":6738.515,"text":"我們的核心目標就是在推動促進民間參與公共建設法就是促參法第三條的修正將智慧載具相關的設施正式的納入公共建設的範疇裡面"},{"start":6740.656,"end":6755.955,"text":"政府目前已經將無人載具列為五大信賴產業之一然而要讓產業的落地除了能夠讓硬體研發更需要基礎設施的支撐目前國內對於無人機的起降廠"},{"start":6758.057,"end":6781.536,"text":"測試場域導航導引以及能源補充設施還是相對的不足透過促攤法的修正我們希望能夠引進民間的效率與資金加速建置這些公共設施讓台灣的無人載具可以走向國際展現產業自主能量的供應鏈"},{"start":6783.357,"end":6805.523,"text":"那我跟多位的委員提出了住餐法第三條修正草案是因為我們觀察到智慧載具的應用早已超越單純的科技的展示進入到農業監測物流運輸甚至是醫療救援的實務階段那特別是在當這個災害發生的時候那無人"},{"start":6806.903,"end":6816.668,"text":"人力無法到達危險地區的時候呢這個智慧載具就是收集災情資訊傳遞救命物資的最好的工具"},{"start":6817.89,"end":6836.881,"text":"身為提案委員我特別要強調無人載具在智慧醫療跟防災救難中的戰略地位我本身是一個醫療人員所以對於醫療的部分會特別的重視第一 偏鄉的送藥跟檢體的運輸台灣很多的山區或者是在離島的地區醫療物資的"},{"start":6840.383,"end":6855.232,"text":"這個運補耗時而且具有它的風險那透過這些智慧的載具我們可以實現定點定時的送藥服務像是在舌商需要的血清緊急的疫苗或者是長輩"},{"start":6856.172,"end":6883.775,"text":"每天都會使用到的慢性病的藥物等等這個都需要及時的處理那以前開車可能要花兩到三個小時的山路那無人機這個飛直線的話其實15分鐘就可以到達這個就是在跟死神搶時間那在緊急的狀況之下抗蛇毒 血清 血漿或者是一些長照的藥品就可以直接跨越的無限制的去做好的運送"},{"start":6884.535,"end":6906.727,"text":"另外如果現在在偏鄉的衛生所收了病人的血液檢體需要等到物流的車訊慢慢的才能夠載回到大醫院做相關的檢驗如果有了比較完善的起降的設施無人機就可以隨時出發檢體就不用等待花那麼長的時間送到"},{"start":6907.307,"end":6929.947,"text":"大醫院以後化驗然後報告才送回到原來的診所的地方所以我們相信這樣的服務模式不管是對於病人的診斷準確性 實效性都能夠提高所以這個不只是科技而是真正的所謂的醫療平權第二部分就是醫療救援跟災情收集的地方的部分"},{"start":6930.647,"end":6954.389,"text":"在天然災害發生的時候人力無法到達的地區智慧載具能夠在第一時間就能夠進行災情收集與物資的投送這將可以保障國民生命安全的公共建設第三就是解決人力的短缺我相信這個非常的清楚人力如果能夠透過這樣的方式來一起處理的話"},{"start":6955.51,"end":6970.01,"text":"就能夠解決這個人力短缺的問題那也許有人會問說那由民間自己做不行嗎為什麼一定要透過修法納入公共建設那主要原因有下列兩點第一 設施配計的完整性這個就需要透過"},{"start":6970.931,"end":6991.638,"text":"专业的飞航区域跟这个导航的设备的处理那第二个就是要提升产业的竞争力所以让科技在实际中不断的进化无人机不能只关闭在在这个实验室里面做研究它必须要在真实的环境中起飞在这个专业的场域里面试飞才能够发现问题改"},{"start":6992.818,"end":7009.605,"text":"進這個技術所以如果我們透過出產法把基礎建設都能夠處理好民間業者就能夠有地方可以進行這個安全的測試跟營運那科技才能夠越用越好越飛越精準台灣的產業才能夠真正的領先國際以上 謝謝"},{"start":7011.65,"end":7035.123,"text":"好 謝謝王振旭委員今天第一輪出席的學者專家以及委員共有11人次發言接下來我們進行第二階段就是由機關代表來進行回應或說明然後還有時間我們會讓學者專家進行第二輪的補充提問或者我們現場在旁聽的人民間團體"},{"start":7037.604,"end":7056.468,"text":"因為我不確定有沒有足夠的時間但是有想要提問題的也可以先到我們主席台前來登記主席這邊會是我們會議的實際進行狀況來看情況讓這個問題可以被提出來那接下來我們因為有十個機關包括公司那我就依序來請做準備"},{"start":7059.289,"end":7077.576,"text":"那么原则上一个机关如果只有单一个代表我们就五分钟如果有两个以上就只有三分钟每个人三分钟那我这个顺序是我刚刚根据刚刚发言的内容所测定的顺序第一个顺位要请经济部来做回应第二个是交通部"},{"start":7078.436,"end":7100.546,"text":"第三個是衛福部第四個是農業部第五個是內政部第六個是國防部然後國營事業分別是第七 台灣電力公司第八 中華郵政第九 中華電信我們法律主管機關財政部第十做最後的總結原則上如果經濟部有兩個單位"},{"start":7101.446,"end":7111.871,"text":"如果一個代表發言五分鐘如果兩個就各三分鐘那請問現在經濟部這邊是副署長還是主任還是你們一個就好好來我們請副署長請時間五分鐘"},{"start":7122.83,"end":7137.286,"text":"好 主席 各位委員還有在座的各位先進接下來經濟部產業發展署針對今天的主題來做還有剛才各位先進的指教我們來做一個初步的回應基本上無人載具的產業發展"},{"start":7138.487,"end":7154.98,"text":"我們經濟部是奉行政院的指示擔任統籌型計畫的會診單位所以經濟部在去年提出了無人載具產業發展統籌型計畫來報行政院在去年的10月30號正式核定"},{"start":7156.721,"end":7181.357,"text":"這個計畫裡面包含非常多的內容也有各部會相關的一些分工我做一個簡要的報告基本上我們的願景是希望把台灣打造成無人機民主供應鏈的亞太中心希望在2030年產值能夠達到400億元也跟各位報告在114年去年其實我們的無人機產值初步的估計已經超過100億了是比113年還成倍數的成長"},{"start":7187.061,"end":7210.32,"text":"在這個計畫裡面我們三個目標除了產業發展之外我們有國防自主跟民主供應鏈三個目標在產業發展的部分如同剛才各位所說的其實不只硬體的發展其實在應用服務的部分也在這個發展的面向裡面我們有四個推動策略包含市場 技術 環境跟法規四個面向"},{"start":7211.941,"end":7229.899,"text":"第一个我先针对市场面的部分市场我们包含国内跟国外的市场在国内市场部分大家都知道国防部采购48750价次各部会其实在应用服务的部分其实在未来三年也编列的预算要采购50898的价次"},{"start":7232.461,"end":7259.607,"text":"所以基本上在國內的部分我們是先希望各部會採購無人機先做實際的操作之後了解狀況之後來去逐步推動各個應用產業面的發展那在國際市場的部分其實我們都知道產業的發展不能只靠內需我們必須最終還是得外銷那剛才有先進提到說我們國內超過200家的業者未來不能只靠內需所以其實在外銷的部分"},{"start":7260.427,"end":7285.726,"text":"國外的市場也是持續在成長的其實也是在應用服務的面向所以這個部分確實是我們必須要再去加強再去補充的一些些相關的措施那在技術面的部分剛才也有先進提到我們技術面我們其實已經盤點了所有我們國內產業的技術缺口從系統廠商是系統廠商一直到零組件廠商全面的盤點那我們也搭配了相關我們"},{"start":7286.647,"end":7309.272,"text":"政府面的法人或者是業界科專的一些相關的研發補助計畫那我們逐步的希望在未來的幾年把這些技術的缺口補齊當然有些關鍵技術是掌握在國際大廠上面所以我們同步也會跟國際大廠還有國際知名的這些研究機構來做共同合作開發相關的一些關鍵技術"},{"start":7311.072,"end":7337.841,"text":"第三在環境面的部分其實大家非常關心驗測的場域在驗測場域的部分目前是由交通部在做主責辦理跟國防部來做一些協辦的工作目前初步是盤點了18處的大中小的測試場域或許還有不足這個問題院裡面其實行政院也非常的重視所以之前也責成了交通部務必要跟相關的單位來去做了解目前的狀況跟問題"},{"start":7339.341,"end":7362.983,"text":"希望未來可以做一個妥適的解決最後在法規面的部分也是跟今天的主題有主要的相關我們在統籌型計畫裡面的法規面我們第一個其實是處理無人機的管理規則但是目前大家所關心的相關的無人機未來應用服務上面的一些行管的規定包含提到的AAM UAM UTM等等"},{"start":7363.723,"end":7385.053,"text":"這個可能要等一下要拜託交通部來去做一個妥適的回應在工程會負責的採購的部分大家也非常關心就我們經濟部所知工程會已經初步訂定了一些相關的規則那並不是所有的政府採購都要求要全面的飛紅它是有一些分類分級的制度那等一下工程會可能也會跟大家做比較細部的報告"},{"start":7386.594,"end":7407.272,"text":"除了無人機的部分也有人先進提到說水面水下或者是其他無人載具的規則其實目前也都有相關的單位在做籌備當中包含交通部跟海委會等等把相關的無人載具的一些的管理規則或者是一些海域作業環境的使用申請等等目前都還在建立當中"},{"start":7410.114,"end":7432.71,"text":"今天最主要是促餐法的修法大家有提到說剛才有很多無人機相關的一些設施應該要納入基本上經濟部也是支持不過在納入的方式裡面可能需要再做進一步的討論例如說現有的法規裡面是不是都已經涵蓋了沒有涵蓋的部分我們在於納入以上是經濟部這邊的發言 謝謝"},{"start":7435.097,"end":7462.524,"text":"好 謝謝經濟部代表周副組長的說明對不起剛剛漏掉我們一共是有11個機關包括了行政院公共工程委員會所以我就把它補在第7個那另外原來的789向後順推好 接下來請第二個機關代表剛才提到的是交通部請問是一位還是兩位還是三位兩位好 那先請民航局嗎好 那麼先請那個林副司長再來請耿副組長時間各三分鐘"},{"start":7468.684,"end":7490.434,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士各位先生各位專家先進大家早安今天交換部應邀來參加這個公聽會聽到委員還有專家學者很多寶貴的意見我個人覺得獲益良多剛有提到很多有關於實際上無人機法規或是試驗的問題等一下由民航局的陳副組長會再"},{"start":7492.515,"end":7508.742,"text":"特別說明那我就以交通部的立場做一個整體的一個交通部推動無人載具的一個整體性的一個概要的說明那我有準備一個書面報告那交通部我就說報告如下進行指教那交通部為了促進無人載具發展"},{"start":7510.563,"end":7526.076,"text":"配合行政院跨部會整合由經營部提報的無人載具的一個統籌計畫從市場、技術、環境及法規四大面向來進行推動本部就我們負責的部分督導民航局還有航港局具以配合盤點無人機飛域"},{"start":7528.038,"end":7555.514,"text":"推測場域無人機法規修正與檢驗實施以及研議水面水下無人船管理規則等措施其中有關無人機相關的法規部分等一下可能由民航局再補充我就不太講在法規部分是民航局等一下說明我們也知道這個要試驗是重要的事所以本部運輸研究所為的探討無人機與交通領域潛在應用之可能性"},{"start":7556.354,"end":7581.51,"text":"自109年起開始就依據民航局的事辦法令框架循序辦理無人機物流試驗計畫歷年來以在國內偏鄉離島地區完成實際場域測試並將試驗結果提供民航局作為政策推動及法令調適之參考至於有關無人機實際的應用情形還有技術的一些問題"},{"start":7582.711,"end":7612.111,"text":"等下中華郵政跟中華電信會補充說明那再來就是無人載具還包括無人船的部分那我們的航港局已就商用測試水域進行盤點開放民眾申請測試並於一一四年五月訂定管理要點範本提供水域機關參考應用並且在今年一月一號實施水面水下無人載具特定測試水域安全管理規範以進一步強化測試安全那我們也在持續的研議"},{"start":7613.071,"end":7639.074,"text":"相關的無人載具管理規則那自駕車方面的話國際間自駕車輛尚處於發展階段國內也處於測驗階段那我們部理為了接軌國際也將持續關注國際車輛法規發展確保自駕車輛運行安全至於相關的基礎設施目前尚無政府部門辦理相關公共建設情形"},{"start":7639.835,"end":7654.411,"text":"那最後就是說今天委員提案要將無人載具納入民間參與公共建設的範疇就我們推動出產的經驗它確實對於節省出產好那以上報告"},{"start":7656.913,"end":7679.472,"text":"對於節省預算提升經營效率及服務品質有幫助那當然今天有大家有一些考量那當然整個配套措施也要配合那我們非常感佩委員提出這個提案那我們會將依大院的討論結果跟修法結果來配合辦理 以上好 謝謝交通部的林副司長那接下來民航局是耿副組長嗎好 請耿副組長請謝謝"},{"start":7681.782,"end":7705.639,"text":"接下來由民航局就無人機的推動現況跟未來發展提出簡要的說明進行指教首先在無人載具的推動情形上面來講從109年的3月民航空法遙控無人機專章還有我們後續的遙控無人機管理規則的施行後本局以非安為核心產業發展為驅動跟各部會分工建構相關的建立體系包括經濟部工程會跟NCC等"},{"start":7705.959,"end":7724.617,"text":"那我们民航运作局主要的话跟交通部是非安这部分的一个监理那推动无人机的全面纳管包括透过操作者的一个讯考跟给证合法化的申请流程跟线上的管理提升制度的透明跟行政效率并有效的降低无人机干扰民航运作就是我们机场被无人机干扰的风险"},{"start":7725.357,"end":7750.651,"text":"我們本局建置的遙控無人機管理資訊系統還有一個Zoomapp的一個APP的服務整合中央跟全國22個縣市的公告的圖資而且定期更新目前現在是以半年為期提供近線行驅的活動範圍的查詢強化民眾有關於先查再飛的風險意識自從制度實施以來250公克以上的無人機註冊總共有4萬多架普通操作陣目前持有人大概有1萬多人"},{"start":7751.351,"end":7768.934,"text":"那專業操作任也就是給專業應用的大概有接近2萬人那法人的部分的話合格法人總共有830餘家平均每月的飛揚活動申請量大概500多件那逐步形成兼顧安全人才與產業的治理基礎那這些以上的這些治理資訊給大家做一個參考"},{"start":7769.935,"end":7796.342,"text":"那本局持續依據無人機的發展滾動檢討並修訂遙控無人機的管理規則比較重要的是從去年114年的12月起新上市的遙控無人機必須完成商品檢驗、形式檢驗以及資安檢測那民航局透過國內實驗室的一個檢測能量輔導業者順利銜接新制並針對農用還有緊急救援等等剛剛那個許多先進指教的一些特殊用途我們簡化相關的程序以兼顧飛航安全與產業發展的需求"},{"start":7798.543,"end":7819.715,"text":"就特別關注的產業發展面向,針對物流等新興的發展應用,已經配合相關的政府部會與花蓮、澎湖、新竹、嘉義等偏鄉離島,完成多項的測試,驗證中小型無人機與公共服務跟物資運用的可行性,目前我們國內做的主要是末端的,就是比較25公斤以下的物流測試應用。"},{"start":7820.715,"end":7838.611,"text":"另外配合本局的无人机另外本局配合行政院的无人载具产业发展统筹型的计划还有工程会的相关的一个采购指引共同供应契约等等协力推动产业的发展需求强化我国无人机的验证能量有关于应用方面无人机的应用的持续发展和扩展"},{"start":7839.211,"end":7853.868,"text":"航空面向的話主要是依據重量跟運作的高度比方說剛剛有先進提到的400尺以上400尺以下國家空域等等那涉及的問題比較多包括空域管理機場周邊的保護還有有人機跟無人機的融合等議題那就是非的潮於這部分"},{"start":7854.409,"end":7870.288,"text":"我們目前也規劃了18處的試飛場域是給中小型使用特別針對大型的無人機目前有嘉義跟恆春兩處可以供應用整個設施來講的話整個排他性較低我們未來的話有關於OAM跟AAM的未來走向請試試不繼續我們把它處理完畢"},{"start":7872.631,"end":7897.568,"text":"好 那UAM跟AM部分的話因為走向商業化 廠站營運支援跟交通管理還有交通服務等等那這個有一些國際上面的一個系統的發展跟趨勢本局將持續依國際的發展跟標準精進無人機的管理與配套那剛剛已經很高興聆聽各位委員跟賢景對於無人機發展的各種願景跟指導那本局將配合交通部整體的政策方向持續完善監理制度並依國際標準趨勢滾動檢討相關的法規配套"},{"start":7900.45,"end":7918.972,"text":"確保無人載具的發展能夠兼顧公共利益與飛航安全以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝民用航空局耿副組長的說明那接下來第三個機關是由衛福部的資訊處理處長請那第四個是農業部請準備那看是要幾位在跟我這邊說一下"},{"start":7927.082,"end":7952.108,"text":"還有朱熹還有在場各位先進那這邊衛福部來跟大家說明說我們衛福部怎麼來推動這個無人機相關做醫療物流還有這個救援的一個相關計畫那衛福部主要是分幾個面向第一個面向就是我們過去利用這個黑客松計畫後來就銜接到一個叫"},{"start":7952.668,"end":7973.621,"text":"花蓮場域計畫已經在花蓮我們建立了三個航線包含豐濱、秀林還有一個太馬里的航線然後這個航線已經在花蓮的地區實行了大概30次的送藥飛行而這些整個航線也通過民航局計畫的申請"},{"start":7975.602,"end":8002.668,"text":"所以現在我們可以往前推進到說怎麼樣把這樣的一個沙盒的一個經驗落實到實際的一個運作所以未來就會在各個鄉鎮去盤點這些比較困難到達或者是在風災雨災天然災害容易致災的一個地區把相關的航線規劃好以後然後來結合民間的一個醫療物流來做運送"},{"start":8005.188,"end":8016.294,"text":"此外我們會做一些創新的規劃這些創新規劃就包含幾個項目第一個項目就是在院際之間檢體跟血品的運送衛福部來訂出檢體還有血品在運送過程品質保證的一些指南"},{"start":8027.919,"end":8044.679,"text":"第二個就是我們會來規劃怎麼樣做緊急醫療剛剛王委員有提到說包含血清包含緊急的AED就是電擊器以及包含有時候緊急的腎上腺素的傳遞"},{"start":8045.9,"end":8066.254,"text":"因為這個涉及到遠端還要指導可能不是有醫護人員在場甚至讓民眾自己來做相關的自我醫療的一個情況所以會牽涉到一些醫師法的一個修法這個部長也已經指派醫事室做相關的一個研究來做未來法律的調適"},{"start":8068.758,"end":8076.653,"text":"另外我們還會去研究怎麼樣在離島之間來做藥物或是其他產品的運送"},{"start":8077.642,"end":8100.69,"text":"那這個運送的過程裡面這個食藥署也牽涉到怎麼在運送過程中這個藥品的品質保證它冷鏈也是會訂出相關的規範所以部長大概都已經有朝這幾個方向去做衛福部相關的一些法律的一個研究大概會三個月之後會有一些基本的一個方法出來"},{"start":8101.97,"end":8114.163,"text":"最後我們會在整個系統裡面建造一個所謂的從申請到審核到全程監測的資訊系統其實這個系統已經在花蓮場域計畫已經建立起來了"},{"start":8119.168,"end":8144.816,"text":"所以未來只要這個由這個地方的一個衛生單位來確認醫療需求之後就可以上這個系統那他申請的時候從民航局還有我們衛福部裡面包含醫師師食藥署資訊處相關的單位都可以在同一個系統去做相關的核准核准了以後呢就可以開始起飛起飛過程我們也是全程來監控那這些"},{"start":8145.336,"end":8165.05,"text":"存下來的這些影像未來也可以當作一個大數據可以做以後的一個二次應用所以這些大概就是整體衛福部相關的一個規劃我們也很高興說在花蓮馬太安溪的煙色湖事件的時候過去這些演練有發揮功能"},{"start":8166.671,"end":8192.563,"text":"因為在這個太馬里國小的這個突然有個民眾他這些因為緊急撤離家園大部分的藥物都沒有帶到然後呢花蓮慈濟的團隊透過視訊然後跟這些民眾問診以後呢我們由這個無人機呢把這些藥物送去送給這些災民那他們都能夠得到這些藥物然後能夠不會因為"},{"start":8193.424,"end":8207.945,"text":"在避難的過程中他們的慢性病控制發生了問題所以這些大概是衛福部過去的一些成效以及未來的一個規劃未來再請各位的委員先進來一起指教"},{"start":8210.285,"end":8230.779,"text":"好 謝謝我們李處長他們事實上在去年成功的執行一些投藥的工作運送藥品的工作未來是否可能考慮一些運送商員的任務這樣的大型的無人載具也是可以考慮的接下來我們請第四個單位農業部請問是幾位代表 一位那就請林保署的汪處長時間五分鐘"},{"start":8238.4,"end":8257.973,"text":"主席 各位委員還有我們產學界的各位先進 大家好我們面對無人機技術的迅速發展其實在農業部的部分也是積極響應行政院的無人載具產業發展跟管理機制的一個政策主要我們就是用在我們的農業科技的部分"},{"start":8259.454,"end":8274.422,"text":"用來提升我們的一些作業效率來降低人力的需求而且我們還要因應各種自然環境管理的一個挑戰以下針對我們本部的應用現況跟未來的規劃我們就簡要說明"},{"start":8275.763,"end":8295.38,"text":"那第一個部分呢主要是用在我們的農田跟森林資源調查的方面那在農田的環境的部分其實我們會利用搭載感測設備的無人機來快速收集我們作物的一些生長勢然後植被的覆蓋度以及我們病蟲害的一個資訊"},{"start":8297.502,"end":8325.56,"text":"讓這個農情的掌握可以更具有實效性跟精準度譬如說去年的幾次的風災我們也用了這樣子的一個技術那在森林資源調查的部分的話那針對我們這個地形很複雜的山區那無人機能夠執行我們森林探會的調查以及建立地形的模型來分析我們的森林的健康度也大幅降低我們人工巡查的風險"},{"start":8327.041,"end":8350.171,"text":"另外在災害應變跟防疫稽查的方面在災害監測的部分因為無人機是災害應變的一個關鍵能夠在不危及人員安全下去進入一個危險區以花蓮馬太安西堰澀湖的災害為例我們也是透過無人機迅速來掌握一些水體的變化"},{"start":8351.551,"end":8370.501,"text":"另外也可以加速來研判我們災後的通報以及搶修的一些決策另外在防疫跟漁業的部分在動物防疫的部分的話我們也可以用來監測車輛的動線例如協助茶和化製原料的一些運送作業"},{"start":8371.421,"end":8394.72,"text":"在漁業領域的部分我們會應用在養殖漁溫或者是漁港設施的損害盤查來確保一些環境的安全在精準農業施作的部分其實我們已經用無人機廣放應用在藥劑跟肥料的噴灑透過這些城市化的一些航線能夠精準的調整藥劑減少一些環境的影響"},{"start":8397.902,"end":8426.02,"text":"那最重要的就是要避免這個農民呢長時間暴露在農藥環境中來保障農民的一些作業安全那未來落實這樣的數位治理那如果說能夠修正這個促餐法的第三條的規定那我們本部也會配合這個無人機產業應用來導入促餐的機制那利用民間的活力來進一步提升行政的效率以上報告"},{"start":8428.049,"end":8433.841,"text":"好謝謝農業部但是我還是要提出來沒關係你們回去思考一下這個問題舉例來說剛剛"},{"start":8438.88,"end":8455.335,"text":"處長有提到就是關於我們包括農糧署的農情調查房檢署的農業用藥漁業署的水產養殖的情況那這些需要農業部做跨三級機關的運用舉例來講現在的農噴機就紙保機"},{"start":8460.239,"end":8482.132,"text":"他的資訊相關的用藥資訊是否房間署這邊有掌握他用了哪些藥在什麼地點什麼樣的作物使用那這樣的資訊交互勾結之後是不是可以構成農糧署他定期要做的農情調查這點過去本席有跟農業部做的多次的提醒"},{"start":8483.012,"end":8506.85,"text":"这些事情不是单一机关执行完毕后数据留在这里其实这些数据的交互运用可以取代过去行政机关要耗费大量人力所进行的收集跟调查所以在这里也提醒我们农业部因为今天是来自林保署房间署农粮署跟渔业署他们互不利索所以我们特别还很好奇那怎么去抓山老鼠我们看到乌鸦的战争这些"},{"start":8511.929,"end":8534.736,"text":"野地的游擊隊適當的監控都會發覺那無人機有沒有用來抓山老鼠呢這些議題希望農業部後續我們持續的關注那今天公聽會後續是不是有類似的提問我們再保留給後面的發言者接下來請內政部內政部是有三個單位是由一個還是都要來講一個好那是政府主任嗎好請"},{"start":8544.652,"end":8564.479,"text":"主席各位委員女士先生大家好以下由內政部包括國土策略中心警政署消防署合併提出檢要報告敬請各位委員不吝指教涉及本部國土策略中心的部分主要應用於局部區域正設影像更新"},{"start":8565.459,"end":8593.086,"text":"三維模型建置及特定區域國土監測等領域業務一百一十一年至一百一十四年間已完成超過三萬八千公頃航拍作業累計完成面積超過十萬公頃一百一十五年規劃辦理約四千兩百公頃航拍任務必將協助財政部國有財產署辦理國有非公用土地航拍與地商務數位化"},{"start":8593.806,"end":8618.759,"text":"同時推動無人機影像結合AI技術透過自動分類地上物提升國有非公用土地管理作業效率及降低人力時間作業成本另一方面使用無人機系統製作三維建物模型112至116年目標完成800棟建物現階段已完成4200棟三維建築物模型"},{"start":8621.781,"end":8649.858,"text":"未來配合無人載具產業發展統籌型計畫規劃於115至117年間編列經費採購微型多軸旋翼無人機以輔助測繪圖資局部更新作業透過影像處理及圖資套合等技術達到提升維持各類國家底圖正確性與實效性質目標那涉及警政署的部分"},{"start":8651.189,"end":8666.562,"text":"各級警察機關現有無人機合計149架機型均為小型多軸懸疑機用途主要為刑案偵查及交通流量監控目前已有台北市等8個警察機關成立無人機隊"},{"start":8668.328,"end":8682.567,"text":"近期無人機使用情形例如刑事警察局會同南投縣政府警察局利用無人機長期監控位於山區之製毒工廠棄貨 禮賢等兩人及毒品半成品共180公斤"},{"start":8684.289,"end":8697.754,"text":"另在114年農曆春節連續假期期間新北市政府警察局運用無人機進行路況監控配合警力實施機動交通疏導與管制維持行車順暢"},{"start":8699.861,"end":8714.28,"text":"未來配合無人載具產業發展統籌型計畫提報相關需求數量及編列適當預算持續依治安及警政工作需求規劃無人機運用事宜以提升警察工作效率"},{"start":8715.473,"end":8740.303,"text":"涉及本部消防署的部分消防運用無人機救災可分為火災現場監控水域救生山域收救與特殊災害現場勘查可節省人力及資源那在現有的能量部分已透過各項中長程計畫補助各縣市消防機關構置無人機數量截至目前已有413架並將於"},{"start":8743.765,"end":8762.52,"text":"118年充實無人機數量至786架本部消防署於114年AI智慧搜救派遣系統建置中程計畫以建置無人機輔助搜救影像管理系統運用AI影像系統辨識縮小地面搜救範圍"},{"start":8763.837,"end":8784.782,"text":"而且空拍這影像可經回傳至行政院國家受救指揮中心平台供指揮官參考未來將持續爭取經費補助各直轄市縣市消防機關購置無人機以利進行救災及勘災並節省人力及資源以上報告敬請各位委員女士先生適宜指教謝謝"},{"start":8787.023,"end":8812.215,"text":"謝謝內政部曾副組長代表也連警政署和消防署都做一個說明了那對於今天我們各部會機關的代表的發言有用到無人載具的部分都予以肯定但是本期在這裡還是要提醒一下今天我們與會的學者專家所提出來各種未來情境的想定跟應用的可能請各機關尤其是三級機關回去還是要跟部本部知道一下其實我就很好奇要問一下內政部"},{"start":8813.696,"end":8823.403,"text":"今天没有营建署来没有国土署来我们现在只要窗帘打开看到对面就是我们行政院的联合办公大楼的南栋跟北栋上面都有房状"},{"start":8824.366,"end":8847.246,"text":"警示燈這個防撞警示燈是誰規定裝的就是以前的營建署規定高樓層的大廈都要裝的怕的是什麼怕的是航空機去撞到那未來如果說當無人載具那麼普遍的時候未來我們的建築規範是不是對於這些高樓層的建築應有一些電子圍籬的設計讓無人載具可以自動區避這樣的事情內政部"},{"start":8847.907,"end":8874.174,"text":"有沒有在建築研所有沒有在研議這個都是屬於跨部會本身跨機關要去思考的我再次提醒今天只是先邀請各部會很多都是三級機關來但是整個政策的一個運用跟跨部會的整合是需要對未來無人載具的多元應用的情境有所想像那今天我們的學者專家來就是提供這樣的趨勢的一個預告"},{"start":8875.894,"end":8898.444,"text":"那麼如果他們遇到的困難或者預告未來可能要情境各部會沒有提早因應的話到時候就會在後面跟著這個收問題在這邊還是善意的提醒各機關代表今天可以把相關的問題縱使不是你的機關所屬的你可以帶回去分享給其他機關接下來第六個單位是國防部軍備局今天就兩個單位來是軍備局還是整平司"},{"start":8902.691,"end":8907.554,"text":"是整民司吗军备局那就请张继和时间无能"},{"start":8915.663,"end":8934.794,"text":"那個主席各位先進大家好那國安部針對有關台灣無人機建立那個零組件跟供應商的認證機制做一個初步的建議那成如剛剛經濟部的發言就是國安部事實上也是那邊帶整個行政院副院長召開的那個專案會議辦理相關的事項"},{"start":8936.214,"end":8958.308,"text":"針對台灣無人機未來的發展,國安部建議是認為說,台灣的無人機產業正處於在地製造轉型為全球民主供應鏈的核心關鍵時期。要建立整個接軌的國際認證機制,杜絕整個紅色供應鏈,關鍵是在於將傳統的航太嚴謹的品質管理與現代軍工的資安、"},{"start":8959.269,"end":8971.498,"text":"任性做一個融合那國安部建議有幾個事項第一個未來要導入整個航太級品質體系以及軍事的資安標準那台灣的無人機產業應積極參照國際的航太標準AS9100建立從設計"},{"start":8978.082,"end":9004.443,"text":"製造到維修的全生命的週期品質認證確保零組件具備高可靠度與一致性同時為了強化整個民主國家的安全防衛韌性台灣的業者例如漢祥已經導入美國國安部所推動的CAMC也就是所謂的網路安全成熟度的模型認證透過建立標準化的治安防禦的層級體系追蹤"},{"start":9005.684,"end":9019.801,"text":"確保每一項關鍵的零組件從程式碼到電路設計皆沒有惡意的後門然後這樣子能夠打入整個國際甚至美軍的供應鏈這也是建立台灣可信賴無人機的品牌形象的基石"},{"start":9020.626,"end":9041.994,"text":"第二個 要推動整個非紅供應鏈與國際資格認證為了有效排除紅色供應鏈經濟部已經協同業者成立了台灣卓越無人機的海外商機聯盟供應院最近也近期洽美國整個國防的創新單位DIU的無人機的一個國際認證的機制接軌"},{"start":9044.375,"end":9068.457,"text":"透過建立國內自主的檢測實驗室,針對非控、通訊、感測等核心模組進行去紅的溯源及有效的認證。此認證機制也能夠讓台灣的廠商零組件在通過國內驗證後直接進入歐美的軍工的市場資格,縮短整個繁瑣的海外的審核流程。"},{"start":9069.218,"end":9092.068,"text":"第三個建議就是要建立整個分級分類的供應商的管理與試杯驗證那嘉義縣政府已經在浦市成立了亞太的無人機AI創新應用研究中心那目前中科院預化在117年啟用整個民雄無人機的產業園區未來這兩個可以相互結合那建立整個台灣的無人機產業供應鏈"},{"start":9093.689,"end":9122.402,"text":"此外建議要建立整個分級認證制度將零組件區分為一般型特殊防護型跟軍工級別根據不同的風險等級設定認證的門檻供應商通過嚴格的實地集合之後確保其材料及生產製程具有抗干擾與高度穩定性另外國防部也配合經濟部盤點整個專屬空域那我們在大型的非市場上"},{"start":9123.722,"end":9152.134,"text":"嘉義的水上機場已經有確定一個專屬時段跟專屬空域未來可以積極的協助業者進行驗證整個無人機的產業發展我們就配合整個行政院政策與各部會進行跨部會的合作引導整個產業發展讓台灣的無人機能夠以高品質高安全的姿態成為全球民主陣營不可或缺的技術夥伴以上報告"},{"start":9153.715,"end":9167.265,"text":"好 謝謝國防部軍備局好 請回 沒問題那這邊也提示一下一些後續可能的問題剛剛您的報告當中有提到目前根據國防產業發展條例第三條跟第四條其實我們的軍品供應有分成三等"},{"start":9167.762,"end":9192.976,"text":"那這些就是國防部以來建立以來軍需品供應的廠商及產品的規格認證那事實上無人載具的特質在於它目前都是軍用商規商規的意思是它本來的原始樣貌是就不在國產條例當中所謂的軍品的一到三等的規範範圍內但是一旦被拿來做軍事的使用配合上其他的一些搭載"},{"start":9193.756,"end":9219.404,"text":"它可能就是一個恐攻的一個載體那這種情況之下有沒有可能我們國內現有的這些無人飛行器這些無人載具本身它內部它的組成有益於被後門操控而產生我們國防上的一個危害的事情其實這是反向思考其實國防採購不單純考量到你的供應商是否是非紅要考量到目前"},{"start":9220.224,"end":9243.176,"text":"市面上在通用的這些無人載具的產品如何確定它本身是不會被滲透它的供應鏈上是安全無虞的這個恐怕民航局跟軍備局這邊可能要有一個橫向的聯繫其實國防不是只有一個軍事上的一個攻擊防禦而已它也要對於我們灰色地帶的一些騷擾甚至一些運用國內的既有的設備器材"},{"start":9247.618,"end":9270.99,"text":"去進行對我們國內不管是社會安全秩序或是國家安全防護的一些騷擾可能都要請國防部不要僅限於國產條例的一個思考今天學者專要提出來的這樣的一個認證規格其實就是要確保這些目前商規的用品未來能夠"},{"start":9272.251,"end":9283.402,"text":"萬一被拿來做軍用的時候的一些安全風險這邊以上提醒接下來我們第七個就是有剛剛漏掉的行政院公共工程委員會有沒有要補充 請"},{"start":9296.88,"end":9316.891,"text":"主席 各位先進今天受邀到財委委會針對我們出產法針對促進民間參與公共經濟條例三條無人載具相關設施的建設及服務我們的工程會要說明針對政府採購法的部分一個有關無人載具產業發展迅速有關應用在國防"},{"start":9317.771,"end":9332.774,"text":"物流運輸醫療農業相關領域為了促進我國無人機產業發展政府積極配合民間參與合作投資建設與無人載具及相關企圖設施部分納入出產法的建議部分公共建設是不是妥適"},{"start":9333.975,"end":9359.578,"text":"工程會這邊因為涉及到是針對政府採購對於促餐的部分我們比較尊重行政院跟財政部的建議第二議題是針對我們無人載具裝置多元化可能涉及國家安全國民各自跟相關技術應用如何不受外國的掌控強化我國無人載具本土研發跟製造能力維護我們國防安全如何參照我們航太軍工的產業經營主化備用供應的部分"},{"start":9360.379,"end":9388.227,"text":"工程會最近考量我們針對國產化跟全球非紅化的需求工程會引進的要求今年在1月7號的時候我們工程會已經研擬出無人機採購的作業指引針對業界比較關切的我們國內的需求發展非紅以及在發展過程中可能受到的一些影響工程會在指引裡面並不是全面非紅而是針對我們現在業者大家比較關切的部分針對整個無人機整機的部分"},{"start":9390.368,"end":9403.864,"text":"还有我们比较大家比较关切具敏感治安的模组跟元件像非控模组或是我们的资讯模组的部分要求非红化以制造商厂牌或原产地的部分整个要求非红"},{"start":9404.924,"end":9432.234,"text":"其餘部分我就根據業界目前在發展的需求去研議逐步非紅化第三個部分是針對無人載具我們現在技術迭代更新與一般出產案大型公共建設長年期回收的特性跟結構線存在的問題是不是套用出產的架構這個部分因為涉及到財務模型的部分工程會現在是比較尊重行政院跟主管機關財政部他整個的建議跟後續的發展以上報告"},{"start":9434.09,"end":9451.141,"text":"好 謝謝陳專委員剛好工程會的報告剛好回應了剛剛前面一個問題這也不是國防部也不是民航局是公共工程基於我們的財務或勞務採購過程當中是不是應用到的勞務的器材或它提供的設備"},{"start":9452.182,"end":9476.801,"text":"那麼我們草根的設備過去曾經傳出有貼牌的狀況層出不窮採購單位也表達自己沒有專業能力去判斷所以期待工程會能夠提供一個認證的指引便於公務機關進行公務採購勞務或服務或設備的時候能夠避免被其他的資安風險或其他的資孔的風險所滲透所以這一點可能未來工程會"},{"start":9477.506,"end":9489.413,"text":"可以再進一步的跟其他機關有他們的需求好 那麼接下來我們機關的部分留著財政部最後現在有請台電再來依序是中華郵政跟中華電信請台電公司副總來請"},{"start":9502.306,"end":9530.272,"text":"主席以及各相關部會的與會的先進及長官我們台電公司屬於整個無人機的應用的事業單位大概我們台電公司目前對於整個無人機的應用大概分三個大部分第一個就是輸電線路的巡檢工作第二個是配電線路的巡檢工作第三個就是災害期間的應用首先我們看下一頁"},{"start":9531.565,"end":9555.287,"text":"在我們整個輸電線路的巡檢工作因為大家可能知道就是說整個輸電線路的鐵塔相當的高剛剛主席有提到垂直的部分的應用對於我們人員的工作安全也可以確保到很多的死角我們也可以利用無人機去發現到尤其在整個鐵塔"},{"start":9557.529,"end":9572.341,"text":"有很多的鐵配件的鏽蝕的部分我們可以利用無人機比較輕易而且安全的去檢視到第二個我們常常這個極端氣候變遷之下很多的落雷"},{"start":9573.061,"end":9599.749,"text":"那這累積之後對我們這個蘇電線路上面愛子的一些散落的部分我們也可以及時發現到那可以予以及早的更新避免這整個蘇電線路在不預期的狀況下去跳脫那第三個部分在蘇電鐵塔的部分很重要就是這個線路的斷骨我們這有時候被累積之後那它可能會斷骨"},{"start":9600.569,"end":9620.837,"text":"那有時候是比較連久的時候因為極端氣候這個風的因素那可能颱風之後我們對於這個斷骨的部分也可以利用無人機去巡檢那也就是重整來講輸電線路這個巡檢除了便利之外也可以增加安全那下一頁"},{"start":9622.247,"end":9636.246,"text":"那接下來有關配電的部分因為我們很多配電線路跟輸電線路都一樣都位於很多是郊外地區那對於我們配電人員常常到了這個偏郊地區因為樹木"},{"start":9638.408,"end":9664.786,"text":"這個遮蔽的關係所以這從下面看上去很多都是沒辦法很清楚的去檢視到整個線路可能會被樹木一些碰觸的關係所以用無人機來做一個巡檢的工作目前我們也在廣泛應用好 下一頁最重要就是在災情的時候我們在揚有颱風的時候我們可以看到其實這一次這個"},{"start":9667.648,"end":9674.013,"text":"丹納斯颱風的時候我們也有應用到就是說整個配電纖路在颱風過後整個"},{"start":9678.723,"end":9706.217,"text":"桿線斷塔的情形我們用無人機可以很快速的去判斷出它斷桿的位置那可以擬定整個搶修計畫那另外還有一個就是我們這一次馬太安溪的時候我們利用這個無人機在中央發布這個馬太安溪的這個預警的時候我們都已經上去在旁邊監視可能旁邊的鐵塔可能會怎樣的"},{"start":9707.952,"end":9723.864,"text":"遭受怎樣的衝擊災情的部分第一時間我們就可以了解到整個蘇電鐵塔有沒有遭受到損害最後這裡也跟主席以及與會的長官報告一下"},{"start":9724.324,"end":9746.326,"text":"因為無人機的在電力公司不管在輸電或者是配電或者是災情期間的應用很多都受限到一些航空法規的規範那我們說實在的我們如果是這航空法規未來可以適度的有一些通融的做法的時候我們對無人機的應用"},{"start":9747.327,"end":9761.353,"text":"未來可以更有效率的去達成一些巡檢的工作以及降低整個工作整個工作安全提升工作安全降低工作安全的意外以上幾點報告"},{"start":9763.785,"end":9784.776,"text":"謝謝台電劉副總很特別提供的簡報非常好非常用心那在這裡我們整理一下剛剛的一個發言主要台電公司還是將無人機的服務提供為台電是使用無人機的服務的使用者包括你們的維護跟災修但事實上台灣電力公司本身也是電力的供應者"},{"start":9785.296,"end":9810.441,"text":"那麼未來的電應供應怎麼樣供應未來那麼多無人載具的使用需求因為很多的無人載具都是使用電力而使用電力它有續航力的限制因此我們看到了電動車它需要充電樁的佈設那台電公司未來在這樣的一個公共電網的佈設有沒有考慮到在無人機的應用情境之下或者無人載具的應用情境之下怎麼樣讓這些無人載具可以及時的取得"},{"start":9811.381,"end":9827.697,"text":"電力的補充能夠執行它的任務換言之台電不再把自己當作是一個無人機服務的使用者而是要成為使用無人機的產業的服務提供者因為台電是一個電力服務業當然無人機無人載就可以協助台電維護你們的網路設備"},{"start":9830.239,"end":9853.734,"text":"可以作為栽修工程上的一個工具但是台電還是一個台灣的主要電力供應者而多數的無人載具在商業應用上都需要及時的能夠補充電力請台電未來可以在未來的電網的施設上一樣跟無人載具做結合這一點可以思考一下那麼接下來我們請其實應該也是最大的運送的服務提供者中華郵政請柯處長"},{"start":9860.628,"end":9870.173,"text":"主席各位先進 中華郵政報告推動無人機物流運送辦理的情形在現況方面"},{"start":9872.878,"end":9890.939,"text":"由於道路會受天然災害土石的崩塌那影響到那個可能影響樹日或樹葉那我們的同仁的話仍然需要將郵件送達災區所以會增加他的郵遞成本人員耗工費時而且兼具就"},{"start":9891.92,"end":9919.586,"text":"高危險性那另外的話我們今年度的話也會配合無人載具產業發展統籌型計畫採購無人機在油務配送方面那現今我們中華郵政目前尚無具備無人機操作人員的專業人員那初期的話所以我們今年會委外辦理執行物流配送那"},{"start":9923.206,"end":9939.219,"text":"我們從107年10月在配合交通部在台南佐政完成了無人機物流運送的概念驗證那今年初那也在花蓮完成了無人機偏鄉物流運送的服務驗證那從"},{"start":9942.81,"end":9965.876,"text":"那今年度的話也會完成配合交通部運營所完成商業驗證的計畫所以在未來我們使用無人機運用於偏鄉災後物流配送方面我們會配合交通部指示採購無人機那另外就是配合交通部運營所辦理商業驗證"},{"start":9968.513,"end":9989.621,"text":"還有就是本公司的話也會辦理採購無人機的採購然後規劃物流配送的場域還有就是相關人員的證照取得那另外在無人機關鍵技術的挑戰方面無人機的"},{"start":9990.842,"end":10019.634,"text":"起降跟取貨 裝取貨的方式以及無人機如何協助遊物車輛進行最後一里路的運送另外就是在續航力跟籌載重量方面電池的技術限制了無人機的飛行時間跟籌載重量還有就是它充電的流程跟我們充電站的設置位置"},{"start":10021.001,"end":10047.516,"text":"那另外就是在自主導航跟避障方面如何確保無人機能夠安全有效的執行我們就是郵件的配送任務以達到人機郵件三方面的安全那最後就是法律捐款方面空域的管理隱私與安全如何確保在飛行期間我們的"},{"start":10048.957,"end":10054.132,"text":"如何相關收集數據以及郵件安全不受到影響"},{"start":10055.731,"end":10078.784,"text":"那最後就是我們中華郵政的話致力於就是偏鄉跟離島的郵務服務的效率那我們將會透過無人機技術的應用然後強化我們在郵務方面的涵蓋範圍那成為大家的好鄰居那以上報告"},{"start":10080.95,"end":10091.196,"text":"我們補充就是我們今年度有依據交通部補助的800萬我們會購置無人機然後我們會選定一到兩條的路線來做一個飛行目前整個一個細節的規劃都會以偏鄉點到點然後再透過我們當地的一個來做配送以上報告 謝謝"},{"start":10104.517,"end":10133.903,"text":"好 先謝謝中華郵政的分享中華郵政很清楚定位在他們中華郵政不可替代對於偏鄉的運送服務的任務很清楚的這樣子是他們郵務的本質他們不是要跟餐飲的外送平台去搶都會裡面的外賣的配送但是還是可以提醒一下中華郵政剛剛你們在談到的部分可能還是之前階段的無人載具的使用其實現在無人載具都會有自主運行的功能"},{"start":10134.537,"end":10162.794,"text":"那在未來中華郵政的郵務人員越來越相對慢慢的世代交替之後你們人力是相當的稀薄所以如果你們還是想要用現有的郵務去招募未來會使用無人機來操控無人機來進行郵務的偏鄉配送這恐怕可能交通部應該大方一點中華郵政是最適合發展自主運行無人配送系統的一個地方"},{"start":10163.214,"end":10183.497,"text":"因為它的無人配送的對象大部分都是比較沒有人煙稠密的安危風險的地方一個獅子鄉標高八百公尺的地方你們的山路要走十八公里你們在仿瑤鄉你們在潮州郵局的部分的遊物室沒有人想要去跑那種偏鄉的遊物路線因為一趟上來送不到五六件"},{"start":10184.554,"end":10205.475,"text":"所以大家都會有這樣的思考所以請中華郵政可以去思考一下你們在無人載具的運用上可能往自主運行的方式去思考不是在想像一個飛手飛一架飛機去送一個郵包建議你們去參佐一下先進的技術發展也請交通部不吝給予他們一個支持八百萬在我聽起來是非常小的可憐接下來我們請中華電信"},{"start":10214.179,"end":10237.081,"text":"主席委員 各位先進 大家好那以下就中華電信在這個無人機應用的實際情形包括在空中基地台運用於天然災害搶修以及這個無人機射頻識別系統RID管理的一個運用的實際運用情形跟各位做一個報告"},{"start":10239.467,"end":10264.926,"text":"台灣常常發生颱風、豪雨、地震這種所謂複合型的天災當這些天災發生的時候地面通訊設備會常常因為停電、道路阻斷或者設備受損而失效讓這些災區形成所謂的通訊孤島的窘境"},{"start":10266.607,"end":10277.922,"text":"那為了提升這個災時的行動網路的一個韌性本公司跟雷虎科技有合作導入所謂的這個空中基地台的技術"},{"start":10279.707,"end":10301.244,"text":"那這個整套技術包括無人機、主機、中繼機及環境偵察機每一套會有三台無人機形成一個團隊那當這個地面搶修車輛沒有辦法進入災區的時候這些空載小型的基地台的方式以這種方式來建構臨時的通訊的一個涵蓋"},{"start":10305.647,"end":10333.931,"text":"來支援災區的民眾跟救災的單位的一個通訊需求這個通訊的方式剛提到無人機主機提供基地台的一個通訊後端我們會透過中華電信的刀軌衛星就是中芯二號把這些通訊的資訊透過衛星傳回到本島的一個核心網路"},{"start":10334.98,"end":10347.855,"text":"那這種技術它的好處第一個可以在災區快速的布建那當這個行動基地台因為颱風"},{"start":10350.047,"end":10362.333,"text":"淹水 山崩以及停電的時候中斷 能源難以達到的時候這個無人機可以迅速升空透過這個空中基地台架設一個臨時的訊號涵蓋去確保災區的人員跟救災的單位的語音跟數據的上網"},{"start":10371.478,"end":10386.726,"text":"同時透過這種架構可以動態的調度彈性部署讓整個覆蓋可以更加的強化第三個是有關於這個好處就是說可以協助地面的通訊的修復"},{"start":10388.611,"end":10402.375,"text":"也就是說在地面設備修復的期間空中基地台可以提供短期的資源達到一個所謂空中資源地面修復的整合式的一個搶修模式這種技術在"},{"start":10407.199,"end":10417.635,"text":"在各項配合的活動包括國家防災日、民安演習、漢光演習等等中華電信都有參與配合提供"},{"start":10419,"end":10444.302,"text":"再來是有關於無人機射頻識別系統的一個應用本公司在113年跟114年也參與了交通部運營所無人機偏鄉物流運送服務驗證計畫主要是提供無人機射頻識別系統就所謂的RID以及UTM"},{"start":10445.023,"end":10468.765,"text":"去協助驗證無人機物流在偏鄉運送時的一個安全性可追蹤性跟合規性那無人機識別系統RID是這個無人機所謂的電子車牌也就是以後這個無人機交管的系統就是UTM的一個核心那剛剛提到的這個"},{"start":10471.167,"end":10479.63,"text":"配合的交通部這項計畫我們提供RID跟UTM讓這項計畫是從花蓮到澎湖之間"},{"start":10485.25,"end":10510.538,"text":"的一個這個運用那中華電信在這方這個計畫裡面提供剛提到RID跟UTM那經過了幾項的測試相關的一個營運機應驗跟這個測試數據也提供作為後續的一個參考以上中華電信報告好 請教一下您剛說的是RID"},{"start":10514.707,"end":10524.219,"text":"I...T...R...I...T...R...I...T...R...I...T...R...I...T...R...I...T...R...I...T...R...I...T...R...I...T...R...I...T..."},{"start":10530.519,"end":10555.216,"text":"台灣電力公司一樣中華電信公司的提供他們也只要主要是把自己視為無人機的使用無人機服務的使用者那麼希望能夠在既有的通訊系統因災害中斷的時候無人機無人載具所提供的服務可以接替做一個替代性的服務事實上在最後一段的報告當中也提到的由中華電信扮演一個社平服務的系統"},{"start":10555.936,"end":10574.975,"text":"提供無人載具或無人機的使用尤其是在自主運行的時候目前多數的一般民眾的想像無人機就跟遙控飛機一樣一人一機的對應式的方式來操控而且完全根據本身操控者跟無人載具本身的無線電裝置來進行"},{"start":10577.437,"end":10602.715,"text":"操控的联系事实上中华电信在全台湾有非常广泛的电信系统可以透过接收可以透过发送这样的讯号的服务未来这样的接收跟发送讯号的一个网络服务是不是可以成为未来自主运行的无人载具所借用刚刚后面所提到那个系统应该是未来的一个趋势建体中华电信可以考量一下多多琢磨在作为"},{"start":10603.275,"end":10628.916,"text":"無人產業無人機運行環境的設備提供者設施提供者不只是使用無人載具服務的使用者再次的強調好那麼在財政部做最後的一個總結的報告之前呢我們是不是與會的學者專家這八位有沒有要做第二輪的補充說明或詢問的那目前登記的旁聽代表呢有一個要登記旁聽待會我們再請他來做一個詢問或"},{"start":10631.919,"end":10636.814,"text":"說明好那接下來就請財政部看是哪一位要來做一個總結的一個會診好請次長謝謝謝次長"},{"start":10646.912,"end":10668.52,"text":"主席 各位與會的學者專家 業者先進 大家好謝謝財政委員會今天召開出產法第三條無人載具相關設施的建設服務的公聽會讓我們有機會來聽取各界的一個意見與想法那簡要的就今天的討論內容說明與回應如下"},{"start":10669.74,"end":10687.512,"text":"首先說明,出產法第3條規定的公共服務,細指供公眾使用且促進公共利益的建設與服務,包含交通建設等共15大類的公共建設,並因應出產法第8條所定民間參與的模式,"},{"start":10688.552,"end":10712.566,"text":"如興建營運移轉就是BOT等營運方式來引進民間投資或是搭配其他今天有委員先進提到的搭配政府購買公共服務的模式來推動出產法所稱的公共建設與服務系由中央目的事業主管機關認定應由政府機關來提供的公共建設與服務"},{"start":10713.767,"end":10724.141,"text":"而且不涉及國家機密、資通安全等機密性的內容無人機載具今天聽下來它可以運用於多元的領域"},{"start":10725.449,"end":10744.214,"text":"都涉及到網路網路網路網路的一個建置挺靠設施監管訓練場域的設施還有導航導引的一個設施那首先我們財政部認為這相關設施呢都必須先釐清它的一個重要目的事業主管機關"},{"start":10745.914,"end":10765.367,"text":"還有無人機載具所提供的建設與服務是否供公眾使用且可促進公共利益以及委託營運的內容是否具體、明確而得以用民間興建跟營運的方式來推動都需要有一個充分的討論跟釐清"},{"start":10768.326,"end":10785.677,"text":"接著回應有代表提到怎麼去納入促參法的問題本案的部分無人機載具的部分是不是用增訂第三條第十六款來增訂或是用現行的第十五大類的公共建設來去推動"},{"start":10787.398,"end":10812.688,"text":"意思就是說各該建設類別是否就可以來推動這個無人機載具的相關設施呢這個財政部呢也可以與我們行政院所屬機關幾個主要的運用領域的部分包括我們的交通部、經濟部還有我們的衛福部還有我們內政部等等可以來充分的討論出倉案件的一個財務可行性其實是非常的個案性"},{"start":10813.496,"end":10838.877,"text":"其實都要看個案的一個特性委託民間興建營運的項目還有其成本跟收入自籌資金的成本依該等因素來估算個案的一個財務自償性個案計畫如果具有自償的能力那才會具有吸引民間依促商的方式來進入公共建設的一個投入"},{"start":10840.379,"end":10849.33,"text":"無人機載具的技術迭代快速將增加財務評估的不確定性及困難度需由主辦機關及民間機構來試個案的計畫內容來審慎評估"},{"start":10855.785,"end":10872.47,"text":"無人機載具涉及一個產業的發展但同時也是涉及到公共建設的一個提供那是否納入出產法修正一事我們財政部會與行政院所屬相關機關來充分地做後續的討論並配合研議以上報告敬請指教謝謝"},{"start":10873.715,"end":10899.384,"text":"好謝謝財政部謝次長的總結的說明那請問八位我們學者專家代表我們要做第二輪的因為我們這邊目前登記的民間團體旁聽者有三位那我把剛剛那個剛剛因為我們的這個是正式的委員會我們都會做記錄甚至會有逐字稿為了避免我們逐字稿的整理同仁沒辦法確認剛剛我們中華電所說的它的是RIT如果查了一下現在"},{"start":10900.144,"end":10929.504,"text":"拜人工智慧所示很快的查得出來是工研院有一個RIT無人機電子網的一個技術研發這是利用RTK我想說因為我記得我認知的是RTK那現在有更進一步的RIT的這樣的一個無人機電子網系統中華電在研發那非常的感謝好 那麼這個是把我們因為會議紀錄要登打要確實不要錯誤引用了我們各位的發言內容"},{"start":10930.384,"end":10949.939,"text":"那麼八位有沒有要再做第二輪的補充那有沒有如果沒有的話我們就讓今天來參與旁聽的民營團體他們來提問好那麼首先第一位是池明陽是台灣無人機產業技術整合協會第二位蘇恆成中華無人機競技協會請準備好請三分鐘"},{"start":10961.223,"end":10962.241,"text":"好 接待的到齊了"},{"start":10966.553,"end":10991.15,"text":"主席 各位與會的機關首長大家好 我是池明陽請代表台灣無人機產業技術整合協會來提議問有關法規面當然民間團體就希望政府跨部會可以持續推動無人機的發展我們民間會全力支持這個出產法我覺得非常的好"},{"start":10992.05,"end":11013.036,"text":"第二項是說在內政部這邊我想請教這個警政署在美國我們有看到最常見的應用就是在無人載具裡面最主要就是要讓人類不能做的事情不方便做的事情讓機器取代那其實在美國有這個"},{"start":11013.956,"end":11039.415,"text":"Drone as a first responder就是第一個到案現場的這個設置每年其實都在每一個州每一個警局大概可以飛超過一萬次以上的任務他取代警察接到電話以後大概60秒以內就會到現場監看情況比如說信義區現在發生什麼狀況了報案過去無人機就會先到那邊看現場然後這比較符合剛剛聽到那個有關"},{"start":11041.276,"end":11066.583,"text":"交通入口監察那我是想問說這個未來是不是有機會納入警政署的發展方向之一那第二項是也是在美國看到的一個情境就農業部有關這個農業噴灑資訊平台這個資料在美國的每個State Government都會將相關的資料呢不管噴灑多少東西呢收到一個資訊管理平台裡面那我覺得台灣應該也要因應去發展"},{"start":11067.523,"end":11082.78,"text":"那在技術面呢我想跟大家說明一下就是無人載具系統在同樣執行任務的情況下必須要持續性有破萬等級 per year 的任務這資訊統籌在精進才有可能真的做得很好"},{"start":11083.42,"end":11108.972,"text":"所以在下協會給個建議就是有關這個Island Defense在離島這種長距離可以運輸長距離可以飛行的地方我們國內應該要開放比如說七美到澎湖本島之間或者是蘭嶼跟綠島之間的傳輸當作民間可以試驗的場域之一那也不在島內比較沒有問題"},{"start":11110.352,"end":11136.419,"text":"這樣持續性如果讓各個無人機去建立相關的飛行航線對於台灣無人載具的發展會非常有幫助再下一步就是因為這些4G飛行就不太可能是如果每天持續性運作的話不會有人在那邊做那也會間接的發展台灣AI自主於人為交錯管理的操作平台剛剛主席有提到就不會用一人一機"},{"start":11137.199,"end":11160.868,"text":"可能會是一個AI對非常多的無人機持續性的飛行大概以上今天也非常肯定這個財務委員會中委員召集各位謝謝大家好 謝謝池理事長好 那麼待會有請警政署準備一下回應那第二位是蘇恆成先生請陳啟文先生準備"},{"start":11164.672,"end":11188.408,"text":"委員各位夥伴大家好我先說明一下我的背景我在台灣發展無人機教育九年無人機足球是我帶進台灣有四年了那我們很希望說在教育領域裡面我們是不是有可以有來支持開發教育的無人機系統因為從現在全球到現在就是除了大疆的TELO以外"},{"start":11189.108,"end":11215.433,"text":"一直都沒有一個像樣的無人機系統包括我們支持很多國際外的活動都沒有一個合適的東西這一塊是非常需要的以台灣譬如說我們以光流鏡頭來講台灣有一家科技公司叫元相我們好幾年前就有討論了我們是不是有一個適合教育使用的而不是玩具等級的一直沒有很好的結果"},{"start":11216.694,"end":11242.011,"text":"下一點就是提到我們接下來今年要辦理總統盃的無人機足球大賽世界上總共有兩個主要的系統一個是FAI 一個是FIDA目前我們只有看到FAI在進來如果另外一個主要的發展無人機足球是由FIDA所開發出來的如果這個系統沒辦法納入的話我們會不會把所有的雞蛋都放在同一個籃子裡"},{"start":11244.132,"end":11258.347,"text":"第二個部分就是我們也會協助業界做一些開發包括政府機關那幾年前我們有做了一個環境的監看系統透過無人機做一個災害的指揮那這個東西也很重要"},{"start":11259.308,"end":11284.143,"text":"那我们在开发的这些东西包括刚刚讲的教育无人机那我们的产业供应上面台湾一直是在国际教育产业里面非常受到重视的那如果我们可以在这一块补上这个缺口整体经济的量能应该是可以支应我们整个需求产业的发展那这样子对于将来发展会很有帮助"},{"start":11285.423,"end":11307.532,"text":"第二個部分是有關於提到剛剛幾個部會的一些報告我們有點遺憾的就是說我們在部會在做了驗證驗證這個東西就是可以做能不能做可是我們台灣應該要做的是它的穩定性持久性的一個計畫這樣才能夠到達落實的地方"},{"start":11308.352,"end":11334.51,"text":"如果是要做驗證的話其實讓這些系統早就已經開發完成其實不太需要去做驗證這個錢有點浪費掉了提到剛剛教育無人機我們有跟教育部有提過一個1000萬的計畫其實錢不多如果能夠有一個好的教育系統的發展我相信台灣的教育量能會在全球會有一個很好的展現謝謝"},{"start":11336.67,"end":11365.529,"text":"好 謝謝那最後一位請陳啟文先生各位好 我是陳啟文我大概介紹我的背景我們是中華民國飛行運動總會下面FAI翻譯全世界的航空器的管理的單位那目前就像剛剛前輩所講的目前我們的提案有兩項第一個就是說將無人機足球納入標準化的公共建設落實地空經濟"},{"start":11366.95,"end":11386.115,"text":"提案背景應該是我們針對提案的鋼一跟鋼四國際的新興運動五輪機足球目前全球都在推進經濟的重要基石政府也開始籌備了所謂中文規的五輪機競賽但是國內缺乏比較標準化跟常態性的比賽練習場域"},{"start":11388.175,"end":11403.43,"text":"導致人才受限具體建議說 產業公共化將無人機足球類的專屬設備跟保護設備納入出產法第三條的公共階級範疇結合基層的教育 鼓勵民間透過"},{"start":11405.592,"end":11425.218,"text":"透過促餐的模式在校園或活動中心建置標準化場域校園就是可以降低政府的財政變遷同時也吸引民間單位的管理經驗從小開始培養無人機的一些資源那為我國的相關的不管是"},{"start":11426.545,"end":11449.811,"text":"未來的軍政的需求或者是無人機的儲備可以儲備大量的人才這是我第一個提案那第二個提案我請我同事來好那第二個提案是有關於商用無人機保險的部分目前這個有一個困境是在法規制度規劃的部分在保險"},{"start":11451.793,"end":11469.181,"text":"僅限於法人而且機體必須在註冊在公司名下個人非首席學生學校社團參加這些足球無人機或是飛行的競賽的時候這些保障是處於真空的狀態目前我們都是依附在"},{"start":11471.062,"end":11489.462,"text":"個人意外險那萬一被排除的時候這個保險就等同於無效所以說這個是一個我們承擔的一個在飛行上或是包含未來會有一些商用無人機會大量在低空經濟在使用的時候萬一發生意外是一個風險所以在保險這邊要去補充去健全它"},{"start":11490.183,"end":11505.137,"text":"所以說希望說能夠請像金管會新聞那些保險業者針對科技體育足球無人機或是一些無人機的競技或比賽擬定專屬的保險讓一般的民眾也能在這個合理的納保範圍之內那"},{"start":11509.605,"end":11529.934,"text":"打破那個法人的門檻讓他包含到個人而非商業以及非商業性質的練習與比賽不再限定法人身份讓這個大家能夠在學校或者是協會認證的臨時場地都可以便捷投保 落實安全飛行謝謝"},{"start":11533.355,"end":11560.84,"text":"這個問題非常重要今天一直沒有觸及到財經相關的議題中有一題是跟保險相關藥保人本身現在必須是法人自然人本身可不可以作為投保人來投保而且保險的課題是以機還是以人為責任的對象這個也是大家很想要知道的好那麼以上剛剛三位的提問是不是剛剛有指名有警政署警政署剛好今天有代表來是不是要回應一下"},{"start":11562.199,"end":11563.13,"text":"那个詹科长请"},{"start":11571.4,"end":11593.895,"text":"主席 與會先進 大家好 警政署報告有關剛剛池里市提到的就是運用無人機在未來報案派遣的這個部分因為我們現在目前無人 就是報案的派遣的部分都是由民眾撥打110進來之後由我們員警做線上的派遣"},{"start":11594.775,"end":11604.455,"text":"那針對這個無人機運用在包安派遣這個部分可能需要一些相關的硬體跟一些未來科技的一些來配合那我們會將這個"},{"start":11607.276,"end":11632.483,"text":"待會去研議持續辦理是 以上報告好 謝謝錦政署剛剛提出來的構想很像30年前的機器戰警那個機器戰警不是人形的是一個無人載具他可以去執行一些勤務好 那在這裡做一個補充跟修正剛剛那個中華電信我現在看到你們的書面報告你們講的是RID就是無線電識別無人機電子網目的是做識別"},{"start":11633.723,"end":11654.491,"text":"剛剛我認識的是RTK是動態定位的系統其實我看到中華電願意來協助中華郵政做他們的物流規範的一些資源這很好希望交通部所屬的兩個國營事業可以互相的多多配合其實我想中華電的想像是比中華郵政來得更前端"},{"start":11655.391,"end":11676.658,"text":"你們已經想到未來要怎麼樣去提供它一個環境中華郵政怎麼樣可以利用你們提供的電子通信環境來引導他們的無人載具去進行配送的物流配送這非常好 非常謝謝至於剛剛講到保險的部分後續我們會再來研究因為目前我所知道紙保機它的飛手它被要求的是一機一保險"},{"start":11679.025,"end":11688.116,"text":"那如果一個帶噴農藥的業者他必須除了用公司登記之外可能他的公司"},{"start":11688.743,"end":11709.915,"text":"所可能擁有的機隊是十數台那每一台都要保險那在過去比較早期的機數它一個飛手同時只能操作一台所以這樣的保險是不是符合它所擁有的機隊所應該承擔的保險風險這個可以參考一下目前的U-BikeU-Bike那個公司"},{"start":11714.797,"end":11733.184,"text":"它不是每一台它是碎片型的保險我有一萬台的U-bike但是只負責什麼只負責乘客取用後的那幾千台的使用的時候才付保費停在充電樁的或者停在那個"},{"start":11734.698,"end":11763.177,"text":"停車樁的那個地方是不會有車體險或人身意外險的問題的所以這一點恐怕我們對於無人載具的管理機關可能紙保機這個或許是農業部跟民航局可以去研究一下目前使用紙保機的噴藥的公司每一隻機每一架機器都要單獨投保那它如果有十幾台它每次出門作業只有帶三台"},{"start":11764.446,"end":11778.827,"text":"那只有這三台有收販間保險的需求可是放在倉庫裡的那幾台通通還是要再繳保費這點碎片型的保險我剛講那個U-Bike的例子其實民航局可以思考一下如果有需要進一步的可以跟金管會保險局"},{"start":11779.728,"end":11796.861,"text":"洽詢一下目前產物保險公司的運用方式在場也有參選的先進在場可以思考一下未來無人載具的運用一定有非常龐大的產物保險需要來保障它的系統運行的各種風險的分攤以上說明最後再次詢問有沒有要再補充的"},{"start":11797.588,"end":11825.113,"text":"好 那如果沒有的話呢在這裡做一個結論的宣告依據立法院職權新司法第58條規定委員會應於公聽會終結後10日內依出席者所提供之正反意見提出公聽會報告送交本院全院委員及出席者所以我們會將今日與會者所有寶貴的發言意見作為未來修法之參考並會邊陳冊送交本院全體委員及今日初列席提供建言的貴賓參閱那麼委員李昆成書面報告列入公聽會報告"},{"start":11826.013,"end":11836.739,"text":"那如果各位貴賓還有其他的書面意見或相關資料也請盡速提供給我們我們將併入本次的公聽會報告再次感謝各位學者專家及政府機關代表的出席謝謝大家 散會"}]}},{"id":"17211","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17211","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d831044d4eb4d2098f972e27c5d9f23dd0a219bd209750d2d38c9bfcc2e7dd56a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議【秘密會議】（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「強化防衛韌性及不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條例規劃執行案項」，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-19","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-19T08:35:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:50:00+08:00","duration":8100,"影片長度":"02:15:00","委員發言時間":"08:35:00 - 10:50:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":27,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-27"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1569.28784375,"end":1569.7940937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1577.13471875,"end":1581.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1581.9778437500001,"end":1584.0028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1584.8297187500002,"end":1587.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1590.3478437500003,"end":1592.0353437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1592.4234687500002,"end":1595.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1596.3215937500001,"end":1606.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1606.12596875,"end":1607.4590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1607.7459687500002,"end":1609.4165937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1609.6190937500003,"end":1612.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1612.7578437500001,"end":1616.1665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1616.3353437500002,"end":1619.4572187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1620.5034687500001,"end":1622.3934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1623.4565937500001,"end":1626.7472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1627.1015937500001,"end":1630.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1630.6622187500002,"end":1632.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1632.4003437500003,"end":1635.8597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1636.0453437500003,"end":1637.5303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1637.6990937500002,"end":1639.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1639.2515937500002,"end":1645.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1645.7484687500003,"end":1649.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1649.9165937500002,"end":1655.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1656.2278437500001,"end":1657.0884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1657.8140937500002,"end":1664.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1664.3953437500002,"end":1667.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1668.3272187500002,"end":1669.7615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1670.0484687500002,"end":1671.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1671.5672187500002,"end":1673.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1673.7947187500001,"end":1677.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1677.99659375,"end":1681.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1681.77659375,"end":1684.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1687.1765937500002,"end":1692.4247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1693.2178437500002,"end":1695.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1695.98534375,"end":1696.6434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1697.0147187500002,"end":1703.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1703.4609687500001,"end":1705.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1705.3678437500002,"end":1706.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1707.66284375,"end":1710.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1710.5147187500002,"end":1712.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1714.53096875,"end":1729.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1729.75221875,"end":1730.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1730.6803437500002,"end":1815.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1815.9159687500003,"end":1873.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1873.3753437500002,"end":1875.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1875.6197187500002,"end":1903.3115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1903.6659687500003,"end":1920.55784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1584.897,"end":1587.298,"text":"好 各位同仁 我們現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1596.38,"end":1622.017,"text":"立法院第十一屆第四會期外交及國防委員會第二十六次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年一月十二日星期一上午九時一分至十二時十七分地點紅樓三零一會議室出席委員陳永康等九人列席委員鍾嘉斌等八人請假委員林益君林楚英列席人員國防部部長顧立雄及所屬人員主席馬昭吉委員文君"},{"start":1623.516,"end":1634.54,"text":"包括事項已宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告國軍如何強化戰場持續戰力對於暫時高消耗情境下彈藥籌貨之應變作為與規劃並被質詢國防部部長顧立雄"},{"start":1639.621,"end":1667.688,"text":"後勤參謀次長、市次長李鳳祥報告委員盧美琳等14人質詢軍有國防部部長郭立雄軍備局局長林文祥戰略規劃師師長黃文啟資源規劃師師藍靜亭空軍司令部參謀長李慶然陸軍司令部參謀長梁永坤彈藥處處長郭坤明及國家中山科學研究院院長李士強等即席答覆決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及巡查結束"},{"start":1668.368,"end":1670.65,"text":"請問在場委員對於上一次會議的議事錄有沒有遺漏錯誤需要更正的地方"},{"start":1693.271,"end":1711.816,"text":"沒有的話我們議事錄確定那在進行秘密會議之前本席做以下宣告第一個國防部秦次市這個朱惠民秦次市我看一下"},{"start":1714.591,"end":1728.954,"text":"勤司室請假因為要參加專案會議因為公務那本席給予准假今天勤司室由助理次長朱惠民少將代理出席請假的人為謝日生那我們給予准假"},{"start":1729.815,"end":1756.662,"text":"另外今天我們排的是機密專報有關國防預算的特別預算特別條例攸關台灣2300萬人的安全也攸關著我們對國際支持台灣的盟友傳遞我們是否捍衛自己國家的決心這麼重要的訊息所以此時無法赴會那我們願意以最大的溝通誠意來安排這一次的機密專報"},{"start":1757.862,"end":1787.068,"text":"事實上呢美國政府呢也罕見的以下我引述江啟臣副院長12月24號2025年接受訪問的時候提到以往美國對台軍售都是國務院批准批准後台灣通過預算美方才會知會國會美國的國會接著才會公佈在本委員會如果歷經幾屆的話曉得這個是往常例行的程序"},{"start":1787.748,"end":1809.484,"text":"那在去年底呢美國也罕見的先國務院批准之後就揭露第一梯次的項目那裡面有的是年度預算有的是有關的未來特別預算的部分所以這個罕見的優先提供這個也是一個溝通的態度所以我們希望今天的機密專報呢"},{"start":1810.665,"end":1828.347,"text":"國防部在可以揭露透過機密會議的方式讓國會可以監督至於機密專報是基於國家利益基於不管是合約或者盟友的互信是國會可以監督可以進行了解質詢的程序"},{"start":1828.908,"end":1855.359,"text":"完全不是黑箱所以外界有人用黑箱稱呼那其實是對於代議政治國會議員代理在這邊進行監督透過機密會議維護國家利益的一個誤解那法律的依據不管是根據立法院職權行使法28條之一這是院會或者立法院職權行使法第54條這是委員會的公聽會或者立法院"},{"start":1855.959,"end":1875.091,"text":"各委員會組織法第九條裡面都有授權召開機密會議而機密會議的對象是我們全院的委員是一個可以監督的機制也可以維繫我們國家的利益那由於這一次是基於先期溝通"},{"start":1875.751,"end":1902.454,"text":"甚至於美方都尚未知會國會或對外公佈的項目待會也許因為我也還沒看到內容也許國防部會進行相關的揭露所以基於以上的理由本席裁定今天全程採機密會議包含詢答包含報告以上做宣告接下來我們先進行清場移動的時候請全部 仔細聽全部人員由前門離開"},{"start":1903.775,"end":1909.618,"text":"那參與秘密會議或持有機密等級證件的才能從後門經過偵測檢查後進入會場動線會比較順暢現在請議事人員執行清場請公報處人員關閉會場錄影音畫面以上"},{"start":2797.748,"end":2798.269,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"}]}},{"id":"167170","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167170","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851f5640ff24f1e5adbc02888e1e08ec371128c6ef5ed786e9b16d77fa562bcf7fe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"12:17:36 - 12:23:28","影片長度":"00:05:52","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:17:36+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:23:28+08:00","duration":352,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":5.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.88221875,"end":9.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.476593750000003,"end":11.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.766593750000002,"end":18.289718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.59346875,"end":37.189718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.42596875,"end":46.690343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.377843750000004,"end":49.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.571593750000005,"end":51.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.36471875,"end":63.430343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.61596875,"end":70.75409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.55159375000001,"end":110.35971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.78159375000001,"end":162.94221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.49909375000001,"end":170.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.72159375,"end":175.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.83471875,"end":177.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.53909375,"end":183.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.12034375000002,"end":188.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.89596875,"end":190.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.10659375,"end":191.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.86159375000003,"end":198.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.02096875,"end":209.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.83784375000002,"end":210.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.69846875000002,"end":237.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.55909375000002,"end":242.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.08596875,"end":252.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.82284375,"end":255.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.20659375000002,"end":253.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.34971875000002,"end":259.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.72471875,"end":266.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.92596875000004,"end":271.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.06034375,"end":274.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.03034375000004,"end":278.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.65409375,"end":283.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.44659375000003,"end":290.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.07846875,"end":297.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.25471875,"end":298.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.24596875000003,"end":300.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.81534375,"end":302.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.58721875000003,"end":303.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.76846875,"end":325.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.67471875,"end":309.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.94034375,"end":310.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.81971875,"end":337.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.00471875,"end":330.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.77596875,"end":350.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.61534375,"end":337.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.57221875000005,"end":343.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.90471875000003,"end":349.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.13221875000005,"end":352.90409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.409,"end":10.98,"text":"等一下是林怡瑾委員之後呢我們來處理臨時提案的議題好 謝謝主席我請一下我們鄭部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":17.779,"end":46.549,"text":"部长好我们都知道现在在第一线出现了教师的逃亡潮有很多的教师离开了第一线教师的岗位甚至连公费生都提前去解约这个比例也算是有意义的请问一下部长你认为现在第一线的教师逃亡潮就是现在老师不想当老师你觉得最主要的原因是什么"},{"start":48.427,"end":61.027,"text":"我想社會在進步那家長這個對這個教育也有許多的一些想法那當然老師也一樣在因為在這個"},{"start":63.991,"end":93.142,"text":"环境氛围里边他面临的挑战确实也比较多那我想这是一个原因所以部长确实承认就是在第一线教师现在第一个他的第一线工作压力大那么他现在担任老师的环境也不如以往以前都要说尊师重道老师讲的一定是对的那现在完全没有这回事而且整个的教育环境我也讲过我自己从第一线的基层的"},{"start":93.482,"end":110.196,"text":"一元做起我們受到太多的各式各樣投訴來自於老師的投訴來自於這個家長的投訴那我也有講過我曾經我聽到最扯的是老師一上課就是要拜託學生不要告我"},{"start":110.916,"end":140.319,"text":"学生不要告我就是同学不要告我他每堂课都要去重复这样的事情那所以像应该是去年去年事实上很多的学校征选就出现了非常大的问题以我们台北市来说其实这个教师严重不足而且他们开这个缺额那也有这个学校什么公开征选40次都征不到老师那我觉得这问题必须要解决"},{"start":141.179,"end":162.615,"text":"必须要解决因为我们不能不承认一个好的老师我觉得好的老师是教育最非常重要的一个根基好那所以我们今天回到我们有关于这一次相关的解聘办法或者是之前办法的一个修正那这个已经公告实施了那我请问"},{"start":163.596,"end":191.665,"text":"那個部長為什麼在這次公告實施之後那你們之前也說做了很多的座談會但是為什麼第一線老師仍然有這麼這麼大的不安你覺得原因在哪裡是溝通不足還是這個辦法還是有缺漏應該再予以修正我想當然圖法不足以置信我必須要先說明但是我們這一次的一個修法"},{"start":192.918,"end":218.002,"text":"基本上也跟教師團體有非常多的包括基層老師的一些溝通座談他們希望不要小案大辦要分流要能夠這個停止這個減少這個爛數我們都朝那一個方向包含現在他沒有做到的就是對老師被冤枉後來的名譽恢復包括他的權益上的恢復我想這個我們省社樂觀也在"},{"start":218.382,"end":237.209,"text":"透過跨部會 跨院包含全序部的一些溝通都在往好的方向在走但是能不能很快速的去形成一個法令上的修改我想這我們會繼續努力當然我也這麼講所有的法令不可能一次因為民主法治的社會終究你"},{"start":238.69,"end":253.142,"text":"修改了我們朝那個方向難免還是有一些期待甚至更高的人他會希望能夠一步到位那我只能講我們目前的修改它確實是來自於不同好 所以這個辦法還會再做修改我們會滾動式的在看這一個"},{"start":258.807,"end":282.922,"text":"因為你1月12號就已經公布了嘛但是仍然現在平息 這個爭議沒有平息嘛法令的修改後看看觀察這將近未來的半年那你再啟動修改大概你的期程 我們基本上是會在暑假的時候把這一個真正的這半年未來的半年裡面的實際的一些可能造成了"},{"start":283.522,"end":308.347,"text":"所以你在這邊可以承諾在暑假之前會朝著這個更好的一個方式在做修正我們基本上會在暑假的時候把這些data收集然後根據真的一個data做你是暑假之前還是暑假暑假的時候也就是說我們先那你是下學期開學之前下學期之前好那在這部分因為我們也最近我相信很多委員都也接受很多的投訴是"},{"start":309.147,"end":325.45,"text":"跟抗议那所以呢是不是就是部长这边可以承诺在下个学期这个开学之前再完成相关的修正可以让他能够往更好的一个方向更有共识的方向"},{"start":325.911,"end":352.714,"text":"谢谢委员提醒那是我们的方向也是我们努力的目标我想我们在下一个学期这一个九月开学之前我们希望有一个更好的一些让我们第一线老师让他们能够安心的我们现在刘老师都不容易了能够让他们第一线没有后顾之忧的来从事他的教育工作好不好 好 谢谢好 谢谢王洪威委员"}]}},{"id":"167164","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167164","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851019cce27c5d4cdcbc02888e1e08ec371247638a9beb78aab98574eeade4413eb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"11:33:57 - 11:46:05","影片長度":"00:12:08","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T11:33:57+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T11:46:05+08:00","duration":728,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.232843750000001,"end":6.814718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.388468750000001,"end":7.607843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.14784375,"end":9.008468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.67846875,"end":15.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.235343750000002,"end":22.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.15409375,"end":25.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.81221875,"end":26.305343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.575343750000002,"end":27.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.570968750000002,"end":45.289718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.829718750000005,"end":107.82846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.67221875000001,"end":209.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.82096875000002,"end":334.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.70846875,"end":382.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.92471875,"end":443.42159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.19784375,"end":469.96596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.35409375,"end":515.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.46471875,"end":531.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.42471875,"end":531.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.4753437500001,"end":614.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.26409375,"end":637.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.41659375,"end":669.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.0022187500001,"end":682.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.05096875,"end":724.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.16346875,"end":718.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.52534375,"end":724.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":725.65596875,"end":726.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.29284375,"end":728.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":728.9297187500001,"end":729.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":729.41909375,"end":730.39784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.625,"end":5.366,"text":"謝謝趙薇有請部長有請鄭部長"},{"start":15.648,"end":17.429,"text":"委員好部長應該是快要午安了"},{"start":46.128,"end":72.111,"text":"然後回過頭來好像質疑我們的部長那不就達到國台辦的目的嗎我自己是認為就是部長的回應非常好因為部長有提到說對於壞鄰居冠上的名稱以笑置之而且回應說我是優雅的台灣人然後您謹守教育基本法的立場我想這當然是就是說我們最好的回應"},{"start":73.111,"end":98.606,"text":"因為如果隨著國台辦起舞那他的目的就達到了嗎所以當時記者問我的時候我也是說依照這個國台辦的標準全台灣的人都會是台獨頑固分子了因為他有任意的標準所以不應該隨他起舞所以對剛才有國民黨委員拿這個來問您的話我是非常的不能認同我在這邊也表達不同的立場"},{"start":99.986,"end":125.316,"text":"今天針對我們的主題之一的解聘辦法的專報想跟部長討論我想部長也有聽到剛剛很多的委員還有各界的意見我自己經歷了看教育部整個的制度的修正真的覺得各方的意見其實常常是對立衝突的"},{"start":125.876,"end":154.083,"text":"我上面是就檢舉審議受理案件分流調查終局處理救濟陳情修法後各方的意見做一個整理所以這裡面有非常對立的意見包含就是還是有教師團體覺得還是沒辦法解決濫訴的問題然後違罪就是揭查那但是也有另外一方持續擔心吃案然後具名造成寒蟬效應"},{"start":155.343,"end":180.074,"text":"然後關於審議受理的部分非常多人覺得疊藏教屋好像雙方都認為校長變成樹木了然後有身份大於專業不具名投票 護衛不透明然後缺乏彼此的說理說服然後不受理的時候被害人的救濟很難那還有提到說各校分散其實整個受理成本很高"},{"start":180.794,"end":204.574,"text":"那針對案件分流的部分有各種意見包含說還是擔心小案大辦然後重案降級關於調查的部分我想部長有聽到教師團體認為說教育變司法那會還是擔心成為校長排除一級的工具那當然我們教師團體還是認為整個調查會不會專業不足然後"},{"start":209.878,"end":231.033,"text":"还是不管是儿童或学生权益或者是学生还是家长还是担心事事相互关于中局处理的部分其实很多人特别是教师团体会说就算没有成立也已经造成伤害那还是有学权家长或者是儿权团体觉得仍然有事事相互跟轻重的问题"},{"start":231.573,"end":251.778,"text":"關於救濟陳情這個部分我個人覺得教育部要積極處理就是教師程序傷害之後沒有補償那後來是冤案的救濟不管是名譽的修復實質的補償這部分已經有一些委員有提案了那我也會提我覺得這個部分也要積極的處理"},{"start":252.938,"end":270.041,"text":"那当然救济成型还是有比较是学生家长团体认为被害人的救济只能在教育体系内还是不够的那下面是我整理的这个现况就是你们这个新修法之后有一个结构上的困境啦"},{"start":270.701,"end":296.274,"text":"第一個就檢舉的部分等於就是我們又要學校過濾案件又要學校保護學生它本身就是在結構上是對立的就審議受理的時候以不同身份的立場不同彼此根本就很難有共識所以最後就會變成無法彼此說服然後就要變成不具名投票了因為那個客觀上你還是要有一個答案出來嘛"},{"start":297.054,"end":321.222,"text":"那案件分流的話其實還是兩種情形都可能發生調查跟終局處理其實事實認定教育專業人事後果等面向說實在的很可能同時都在這裡面在影響結果那救濟的方面救濟結構的不對稱其實還是存在的因為這裡面誰的救濟管道其實是不一樣的"},{"start":321.462,"end":349.358,"text":"那當然現階段就是說如果教師被冤枉之後如何補償因為我們在性別工作平等法其實都有相關的設計這個教育部我覺得可能可以積極主動先處理喔那所以今天是想跟您對話我知道教育部這題很努力也很頭大我想問的是說這次修法的重點的關鍵的問題就在於說我們期待學校既要過濾案件"},{"start":350.839,"end":367.032,"text":"又要保護學生我現在就是說跟著走過這個過程中聽了各種聲音我其實又覺得是Mission Impossible好像是不可能的解放想問部長有沒有其他可能的解放"},{"start":367.993,"end":382.189,"text":"待会儿部长再答因为我时间有限我想先提提看当然我们台湾从威权走向民主其实家长老师包含学生各种团体有些观念的确是不完全一样"},{"start":383.49,"end":407.791,"text":"可是我们看一下其他民主国家比如说英国他们当然同样有霸凌的问题有相关的问题他们处理的层级是中央层级处理严重的案件有所谓的Teaching Regulation Agency TRC这是处理中央层级来处理严重的案件第三方监管助力而且他们也建立了明确的"},{"start":408.351,"end":424.013,"text":"教師專業倫理明確告訴大家怎麼樣是適當的管教方式怎麼樣是不適當的所以我們看到教師團體覺得現在好像都不能管教了動輒得救所以這是英國的處理方式"},{"start":424.514,"end":443.003,"text":"他除了有這個TRA嚴重的案件中央層級處理第三方監管介入之外還有明確定出教師專業倫理說什麼是對的管教方式什麼是越線的那北歐也有外部的督查波蘭則是兒童監管使"},{"start":444.444,"end":468.55,"text":"獨立在行政體系的國家級機構加拿大也有第三方的角色處理程序公正利益衝突等這些國家我相信他們也可能曾經走過我們現在的路我在去年11月的時候因為出國幫忙做國會外交所以當時提了一個書面總質詢"},{"start":470.47,"end":487.861,"text":"就是要求教育部做跨國研究那謝謝教育部有積極回應我去年12月11號教育部給我的回覆說國教院從去年12月到今年8月正在進行五個國家的研究包含英國"},{"start":488.601,"end":515.086,"text":"澳洲 日本 韓國 新加坡希望能夠就這個部分包含受理的分流 防度 濫訴 程序 權力結構等等消失會議這個部分裡面至少看到英國就是我剛所講的就是嚴重的案件就是中央的TRA我先想請問部長您知不知道目前這個研究的進度如何"},{"start":518.639,"end":537.767,"text":"現在完成委辦那委辦之後會有一些計畫跟實際上的幾個程序那我們想說在下班前把這個文件整理給委員看還有沒有不足的地方再給我們指導好 所以就是正在進行中還並沒有因為12月開始進行現在才1月嘛"},{"start":538.447,"end":563.027,"text":"那我想至少我看到這個研究的範圍我覺得是相當好啦因為對我們來講就是說有沒有可能跳脫目前的制度就是說因為現在的主張也有教育團也覺得全部都廢除可是我們也知道全部都廢除那相關的學生家長就是說這個兒童的權益怎麼保障的問題所以我想"},{"start":563.987,"end":584.198,"text":"這次的修法我想說的不是終點應該是教育部要能夠持續研商跟蒐集意見把第三方獨立機制列為一個可能的討論因為我覺得如何能夠讓保護兒童學生跟教師權益不是對立的"},{"start":585.158,"end":609.565,"text":"這個部分然後回歸教育專業不要讓教師覺得就是學校變成教學領域變成司法偵查場域校士會淪為獵巫機制然後能夠不要撕裂親師信任維繫親師信任我相信是教育部最後的目標也是你們改革的初衷那不知道是不是能夠就是說"},{"start":610.805,"end":632.089,"text":"等研究出來之後部長這邊好好的了解一下好不好謝謝委員謝謝委員的指導確實我們在全國的一個座談裡面也有人提第三獨立機制甚至有的這個地方也有一些教師的聲音這一個民間團體希望能夠由地方政府"},{"start":632.549,"end":649.966,"text":"来成立这样的一个机制但是看起来还有许多的一些不同意见所以是不是让我们这个新的1月12号公布的目前的办法我们走一段时间然后同时刚才委员所提的国际的经验"},{"start":650.546,"end":669.325,"text":"然后我们也实际来收集这些然后再做一个阶段性的滚动修正我想我们的目标跟教师团体跟家长团体跟社会的关心台湾教育的推动的团体都是一致的我们只有确保台湾的教育品质是好的我们老师能够"},{"start":670.126,"end":698.599,"text":"用专业专心来指导我们学生我们家长是放心把小孩交给学校的我想那一个是我们希望恢复到所有当时在人才培育的一个出桌好那当然我想还有一些结构性的问题包含特教足够的后援师生笔这个部分那教师团体觉得这个可能是一个结构上需要解决的那我想这件大家都很关心的教师续聘等等的这个办法"},{"start":699.079,"end":722.839,"text":"那如何就像部長說的持續觀察然後持續檢討那思考制度新的可能性那最後能夠建立維繫親師信任然後教學真的能夠就是專注教學的場域我想非常的重要好不好那部長辛苦了那我們期待這個報告如果出來之後可以先給本席一份好嗎好謝謝"},{"start":725.728,"end":730.132,"text":"好謝謝范瑜委員那歡迎請回座"}]}},{"id":"167161","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167161","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8517b0eda596a562c1575d69df13e4e8eda247638a9beb78aab64a5fa53d23552a65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"10:44:26 - 10:54:28","影片長度":"00:10:02","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:44:26+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:54:28+08:00","duration":602,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.27534375,"end":5.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.85284375,"end":6.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.244093750000001,"end":13.615343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.615343750000001,"end":13.665968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.665968750000001,"end":13.902218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.969718750000002,"end":13.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.05409375,"end":22.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.30596875,"end":30.456593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.65909375,"end":42.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.14659375,"end":56.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.494718750000004,"end":76.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.28471875000001,"end":86.32971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.63346875,"end":93.09659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.36659375,"end":96.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.01159375,"end":102.42846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.56346875000001,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.02284375,"end":106.42784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.59659375000001,"end":106.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.66409375,"end":106.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.69784375,"end":106.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.79909375000001,"end":106.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.86659375,"end":117.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.22784375,"end":133.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.79221875,"end":125.34471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.57971875,"end":140.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.66409375,"end":134.76096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.81909375,"end":154.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.51096875000002,"end":141.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.04221875000002,"end":144.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.26034375,"end":165.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.18346875,"end":158.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.73159375,"end":162.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.54096875000002,"end":206.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.57471875000002,"end":166.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.95534375000003,"end":188.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.50346875000002,"end":189.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.23909375000002,"end":208.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.77034375000002,"end":211.86284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.30971875,"end":221.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.32596875000002,"end":222.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.71784375000001,"end":221.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.86971875,"end":231.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.72471875000002,"end":244.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.74159375000002,"end":232.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.88721875000002,"end":248.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.00534375,"end":246.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.59971875000002,"end":270.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.61659375000002,"end":249.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.60971875,"end":265.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.66034375000004,"end":266.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.24659375000005,"end":282.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.63409375000003,"end":272.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.41784375000003,"end":282.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.18096875000003,"end":282.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.45096875,"end":286.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.51846875,"end":290.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.02346875,"end":308.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.72534375000004,"end":318.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.71534375000005,"end":322.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.69346875,"end":333.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.42284375,"end":327.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.58221875000004,"end":370.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.52596875,"end":343.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.04471875,"end":344.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.19784375,"end":365.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.03221875,"end":384.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.10159375,"end":402.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.35221875,"end":402.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.48284375000003,"end":402.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.75284375,"end":405.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.88784375,"end":403.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.03096875,"end":405.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.95909375,"end":405.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.97596875000005,"end":406.36409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.99284375,"end":406.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.36409375000005,"end":406.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.38096875,"end":407.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.60034375000004,"end":409.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.96721875000003,"end":418.98659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.32409375000003,"end":441.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.19034375,"end":438.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.24471875,"end":441.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.27846875,"end":443.94471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.24034375,"end":477.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.89721875000004,"end":487.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.51596875,"end":530.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.26534375000006,"end":498.29909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.33284375000005,"end":499.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.96909375,"end":536.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.1115937500001,"end":543.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.50721875,"end":547.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.55721875,"end":552.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.51846875,"end":564.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.8334687500001,"end":576.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.08409375,"end":583.6865937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.04971875,"end":587.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.4665937500001,"end":594.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.20471875,"end":589.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.88346875,"end":599.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.7478437500001,"end":599.04284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.858,"end":6.66,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請劉世芳 劉部長請劉部長委員好 部長好部長 您在1月初的時候有陪同我們前總統蔡英文去參觀了這個中和的社會住宅"},{"start":24.346,"end":34.879,"text":"而當時呢也發文這個蔡總統也發文強調社宅是國家必須承擔的責任而且賴清德總統競選時也明確的承諾要落實居住正義"},{"start":35.612,"end":55.857,"text":"所以要在蔡英文政府12萬戶的基礎上再加碼興建13萬戶到達25萬戶結果大概在您陪同蔡英文主席之後她也肯定她也相信未來中央政府會繼續的一起來推動社會住宅跟居住支持的政策"},{"start":56.557,"end":76.087,"text":"那但是一個禮拜後您就提出了這25萬戶的社宅可能會跳票因為接下來可能會越蓋越少所以要請問部長賴清德總統競選時所承諾的這個25萬戶社會住宅的目標截至今日為止是否人算數"},{"start":77.801,"end":104.773,"text":"報告委員現在我們確實在蔡英文總統到中和去看景蕭設宅的時候我有跟她報告我們現在三軌旗下的目標值是110萬戶當時也提到說蔡英文總統任內所完成的設宅的總量是12萬戶包租代管是10萬戶所以我所說的數據到目前為止變動數並不大"},{"start":106.954,"end":113.118,"text":"那請問一下賴清德總統當時說會加碼興建13戶住宅那你已經講了未來會越蓋越少請問會少到什麼程度報告委員目前為止我們盤點出來的部分可能會在4萬到6萬之間6萬到6萬 對不起"},{"start":125.527,"end":133.714,"text":"還要看這個北北桃中這個縣市地方政府他們現在能夠跟中央政府一起來合作能夠盤點的戶數所以這個部分有一些變動原來是13萬戶現在可能會調降到4萬到6萬戶是這樣嗎"},{"start":142.66,"end":161.292,"text":"要看時間因為聽說這個計畫其實都還沒有送行政院不是 報告委員我們百萬戶租屋家庭的支持計畫並沒有改變那目前為止還是三軌所以現在調整的是數目110萬戶的租屋主受到政府的對 100就是合計超過110萬戶那是因為你有90萬戶都是租金補貼嗎"},{"start":166.556,"end":183.009,"text":"有90萬戶都是租金補貼喔所以才能夠合計加起來是110萬戶那尤其我們剛剛提到的12萬戶的社宅現在看起來好像達標可是實際上只有4萬多戶是完工的我們可以看一下現在這個統計表而新建中以絕標帶開工的"},{"start":184.33,"end":204.664,"text":"加起來還有大概8萬戶左右加起來才會有12萬戶這也只是達到這個蔡英文總統當時說的12萬戶那但是真正12萬戶要蓋完可能也當然也可能要到2032年那現在規劃中的28230這個就是剛您講的賴清德總統的任內開始這個規劃中的嗎就是所謂的13萬戶的社會住宅嗎"},{"start":214.646,"end":221.211,"text":"目前規劃當中 但是事實上我們還在規劃我剛有跟其他的委員報告過我剛有跟其他的委員報告過目前就是說我們在115到116裡面可以優先興辦的40處大概是1.1萬戶請問一下為什麼會在賴清德總統也上任一年多的時間"},{"start":237.742,"end":246.007,"text":"你們就把這個他的原來說的13萬戶的社會住宅要興建的這個部分就已經開始公開的公開的表示會跳票了為什麼這麼短時間第一個我們沒有講會跳票需要調整跟委員報告我們現在呢知道說從這個租金補貼裡面呢所分佈的這個樣態知道說社會住宅的需求量大概就是集中在北北桃中這些所謂的京華地段跟京華地區"},{"start":266.34,"end":292.825,"text":"因為現在全台灣22個縣市已經有蓋好很多社會住宅回答其他委員的時候我聽到這個應該是在你們上任前就會知道社會住宅大概需求的大概就是會在進化區絕對不會是現在才知道嘛用盤點的方式那也就是說現在除了這個跳票之後您剛還提了另外一個原因就是因為要這個營建會增加碳排影響2050年的淨零目標"},{"start":295.625,"end":321.438,"text":"請您看一下您在2024年9月2號參加自然碳會及低碳建築研討會的時候還提到25萬戶社宅每年減碳可以11.23萬噸但現在卻變成說因為這個要增加因為我們蓋社宅會增加碳排量所以我們也要多利用現在的空污漁夫所以到底蓋社宅是會增加碳排還是會減碳"},{"start":323.917,"end":343.604,"text":"蓋的越多當然碳排就越多蓋的越少碳排就越少請問您在2024年講到25萬戶設宅每年減碳11.23萬噸這個怎麼來的第一個那個當時呢我們在蓋社會住宅的時候因為我們要求社會住宅要走綠建築的標章所以綠建築跟一般的標章比起來是這樣子做所以現在不用嗎"},{"start":344.324,"end":371.078,"text":"報告委員我們現在要求是更嚴格也就是說在汽油變遷委員會裡面這個總統有明確要求這個社會這個住商裡面的碳排量要達到35%那我在參加這個自然碳會的時候那時候的目標不是35%那既然是35%的狀況之下那社會住宅如果可以減少這個新蓋的數量的話他減少的碳排量就會更多"},{"start":371.718,"end":397.945,"text":"其實我想不管是當時你說會減少碳排或是現在會增加碳排其實大家都聽到無瑟瑟因為都會覺得說到底是當時為了要推社會住宅當時為了要這個推這個賴總統的政見所以呢什麼樣子都有可能來這個帶動社宅的一個興建可是現在又是這樣子所以我們現在看到就靜靈轉型來告訴大家說社宅的興建應該要少一點這個其實"},{"start":399.145,"end":409.189,"text":"就是聽起來事實上大家都沒有辦法能夠接受其實委員還有另外一個重點就是稀缺稀缺的淡黃區土地太少了然後那個才是真正有需求的人所需要的地段另外再請教部長就是說既然您剛剛講說設宅的興建會越來越少那為什麼今年住住中心還要增加35個名額然後增加將近9000萬的經費"},{"start":419.823,"end":448.036,"text":"報告委員我們現在的方向有三個第一個社會住宅的興建那第二個呢就是現在已經完成的社會住宅還需要有人做這個社會住宅的管理然後再加上我們現在還有都市更新公辦的都更所以有三個面向但是這些人數呢我有要求住住中心已經要做這個檢討不能夠以增加員工人數為主所以說可能針對這個部分可能住住中心也要了解一下"},{"start":448.476,"end":463.564,"text":"既然我們接下來不該設 設宅會越蓋越少所以住宅中心的這個原額事實上必須要調整經費也應該要減少才對喔那另外還有就是最後想要請教你就說現在既然剛剛聽部長講重心都轉向包租貸款跟租金補貼那當時呢我們來看到為了擴大租金補貼2.0"},{"start":468.666,"end":493.663,"text":"當時為了充業績內政部就宣傳說免房東同意直接申請手續減變然後告訴年輕人放心來申請吧政府挺你結果現在他們忽然收到了這個叫他們要補這個補繳的這個租金補貼要繳回的這個通知因為說房東說這個房東房子的稅級不符或建物用途不對然後發公文叫弱勢的房客把這個錢繳回來動輒幾萬動輒十幾萬"},{"start":498.326,"end":507.11,"text":"其實會要求租金補貼的人其實他們就是相對弱勢那這樣子為了當時你們要去衝這樣的一個業績結果造成我們的房客受到這麼大的一個問題那針對這個部分國土署說返還困難可分期付款這不是返還困難的問題"},{"start":516.335,"end":536.372,"text":"這是當時你們的政策的推廣所造成房東造成房客不了解政策而被迫這樣做這樣子的一個騙大家上車之後然後後續再對弱勢人進行抄家這樣子可行嗎報告委員我們會跟地方政府來做精進的方案因為這裡面包括第一個他身份變更"},{"start":537.173,"end":563.993,"text":"第二個呢他所住的住宅是不是符合我們當時所做的住宅的部分呢都需要後續的查核然後再來就是也有可能他因為短期的租屋譬如說寒暑假所以會造成我們查核上的困難也就是說我們第一線的查核是在地方政府然後第二線的這個複核是在中央政府那中央政府發現說複核有困難複核有狀況的時候就會要求第一線的地方政府需要做追回的這個工作那追回的如果有困難"},{"start":565.214,"end":575.434,"text":"宣傳說免房東同意直接申請手續減便而造成房客的誤導的話我覺得這個部分我們就應該要來好好的解決這個問題而不是說事後稽查的問題"},{"start":578.163,"end":597.809,"text":"我們應該是有定型化的契約的提供但是在處理的過程當中一定會有這些困擾所以我想在宣傳上是不是有這樣的問題如果有的話我覺得就是政府應該來解決這樣的問題我們會來幫忙跟地方政府一起來解決因為目前大概是1.3%左右出現這樣的狀況不管是百分之多少我想會來使用租金補貼就是他相對弱勢我們一定要幫他解決問題好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167154","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167154","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8518bd4402936dfdb1e75d69df13e4e8eda247638a9beb78aab82244cc87e3a1d295ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"09:42:06 - 09:49:57","影片長度":"00:07:51","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:42:06+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:49:57+08:00","duration":471,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.99284375,"end":5.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.80221875,"end":6.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.202843750000001,"end":9.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.906593750000003,"end":13.429718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.429718750000003,"end":20.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.78721875,"end":30.372218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.03034375,"end":36.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.33346875,"end":35.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.48534375,"end":35.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.51471875,"end":45.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.95346875,"end":38.354093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.674093750000004,"end":48.765968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.85909375,"end":47.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.93471875,"end":52.242218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.562843750000006,"end":53.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.71034375,"end":58.67159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.97534375,"end":65.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.953468750000006,"end":68.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.76284375,"end":71.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.12096875,"end":73.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.40346875,"end":78.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.53346875000001,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.55034375000001,"end":78.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.34346875,"end":85.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.53721875000001,"end":81.94221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.35534375,"end":86.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.34659375000001,"end":90.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.37971875000001,"end":92.70846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.86034375000001,"end":95.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.25221875000001,"end":97.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.51346875,"end":104.03159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.93034375,"end":103.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.03159375000001,"end":104.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.13284375,"end":109.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.95909375000001,"end":114.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.68409375,"end":115.62471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.57846875000001,"end":118.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.10096875,"end":127.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.46659375000002,"end":129.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.40721875,"end":131.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.21284375000002,"end":134.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.86221875,"end":150.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.58534375000002,"end":162.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.80034375,"end":153.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.59721875,"end":156.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.74034375000002,"end":159.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.13659375,"end":171.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.59909375,"end":172.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.29096875000002,"end":182.77034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.24721875,"end":182.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.19221875000002,"end":190.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.40721875,"end":185.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.03159375,"end":185.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.13284375,"end":185.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.32596875000002,"end":200.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.70409375000003,"end":219.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.36471875,"end":214.54596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.76034375,"end":220.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.73909375000002,"end":222.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.98346875000001,"end":229.98659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.34096875,"end":232.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.02409375000002,"end":235.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.58909375000002,"end":246.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.92471875,"end":248.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.63721875000002,"end":251.89034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.29096875000002,"end":253.30784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.30784375000002,"end":253.96596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.96596875000003,"end":254.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.40034375000002,"end":258.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.18034375,"end":266.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.02721875000003,"end":267.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.03534375000004,"end":288.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.59346875,"end":289.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.80846875000003,"end":291.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.28909375,"end":298.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.54971875,"end":299.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.98409375,"end":311.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.77159375,"end":312.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.34096875,"end":312.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.02846875,"end":314.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.20971875000004,"end":315.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.57659375000003,"end":318.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.45784375,"end":331.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.54034375000003,"end":337.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.60784375000003,"end":331.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.88534375,"end":340.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.16346875000005,"end":341.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.04096875000005,"end":348.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.15471875000003,"end":342.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.72846875000005,"end":343.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.23409375,"end":358.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.14909375,"end":353.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.08534375000005,"end":354.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.87846875,"end":354.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.67971875,"end":364.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.73346875000004,"end":364.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.75034375,"end":367.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.65284375000005,"end":380.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.29221875,"end":392.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.03284375000004,"end":412.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.59096875,"end":425.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.42909375000005,"end":429.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.34784375000004,"end":431.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.06909375000004,"end":438.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.64596875,"end":439.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.04659375000006,"end":442.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.35846875000004,"end":445.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.92346875000004,"end":446.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.17221875,"end":454.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.18784375,"end":459.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.48659375000005,"end":467.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.13034375,"end":472.26096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.198,"end":30.233,"text":"今天這個花敬群董事長有來 請花董事長我們請花董事長那部長先稍後謝謝委員長董事長早 滿一九十期的社宅1.4萬戶從蔡英文政府上來以後到賴清德總統我想花敬群董事長是社宅最重要的推手請問一下目前社宅的部分一共舉載了多少"},{"start":31.292,"end":47.651,"text":"跟委員報告 因為是要依照興建的速度動波嘛那到 目前興建完成的部分還有興建中的一共舉債的多少這個基金啦 我們這個基金一共借了多少錢我們中央蓋的 住戶中心蓋的"},{"start":49.033,"end":76.274,"text":"我們蓋大概將近7萬戶 6萬9千戶那轉個連帶案當時興建的費用是4,005億那我們現在估下來最後應該是3,890億左右目前這3,890億加上這些租金的收入可以付得到利息嗎利息可以抵得過嗎我們整個自償率算下來大概是64%左右"},{"start":79.439,"end":97.598,"text":"就是我們的租金收入那我們扣掉必要的管理費用那目標是不是要百分之百當然缺口就是住宅基金補助 租入中心嘛所以說大概有百分之三十幾的部分目標會不會到百分之百 希望什麼意思 租金 租金"},{"start":99.027,"end":127.562,"text":"我們租金收入的估計是用九成的出租率去估的啦九成出租率不是滿租是九成的出租率當然這都是要後續的維護因為這三千多億裡面還包含現在新建中還沒有開始收租金的部分那所以在這個動態式的調整裡面同步的把這個包租代管拉高是一個方式讓整個社宅的這個基金"},{"start":128.942,"end":150.47,"text":"被內政部補貼的經費可以降低是不是這個意思其實這個部分是針對過往我們蓋的6萬9千戶那未來如果還要再增加興建當然還要有另外的資金的籌措和資金的補助那都要在另外再來算那當然它就是 它不是 其實"},{"start":151.75,"end":170.415,"text":"這都是選擇啦因為包租貸款或租金補貼他可以即刻快速滿足民眾的需求嘛不用等我蓋房子需要時間大概我以我高雄我的選區左營男子為例高雄目前總社宅規劃是接近兩萬三千戶"},{"start":172.396,"end":200.741,"text":"我們是因為台積電進駐的關係那大量的社宅也規劃在左營跟南子一共9000多戶目前有一個地方就是崇石安居都已經很多人住進去了那我也在這邊讓大家知道一下崇石他一共859戶裡面當初有2186戶來申請但是通過審核的1085戶可能他的工作地點可能他的戶籍地點等等的這些我們所限制的因素"},{"start":203.87,"end":219.156,"text":"1085個合格的抽籤 中籤率是接近80%這個是歷年來社宅可能算中籤率很高很高的一個當然也有可能是因為我在自己接觸的很多從"},{"start":221.037,"end":245.447,"text":"領租金補貼到要搬進社宅第一個地點的關係第二個他比較新第三個可能他這樣搬過去他的租金不會造成他更大的負擔所以因為這三個因素他會搬但是這個只有80%接下來還有8000戶左營男子接下來還有8000戶那董事長也都有去看所以我想這個接下來我要請劉部長 謝謝請劉部長"},{"start":254.49,"end":265.139,"text":"所以現在內政部調整的方向應該是說要大量的希望大量的這個包租代管可以出現所以包含我們也把這個"},{"start":269.816,"end":291.163,"text":"這個包租貸款裡面很多公益出租那還有對於出租人的這個終所稅的優惠付稅的減免等等希望有更多釋出更多的空屋來讓包租貸款的量可以增加到讓整個租屋市場可以平衡那這個部長請問一下"},{"start":292.973,"end":317.392,"text":"從去年度我們開始推包租貸款到今年度整個包租貸款的量的變化是怎樣是 謝謝委員的垂詢我想包租貸款不是去年度就是已經推了大概10年左右但是從前年去年到今年對我們有增加了幾個負稅優惠 速度非常的快對 非常的快你可以說明一下數字嗎幾乎現在是10萬4千多戶"},{"start":319.714,"end":342.204,"text":"現在是10萬4千多戶在113年的時候是8萬多戶然後112年是6萬多戶所以幾乎是每年用2萬戶的這個趨勢在往上成長當中這2萬戶的成長其實包含我們在住宅法裡面可以很多的包含這個付稅的優惠那包含對於修繕的補助還有修繕的補助等等"},{"start":343.264,"end":363.993,"text":"這會比蓋房子快啦會比這個住住中心蓋房子快啦所以現在目前調節的方向而且這是民間蓋的房子不是公屋就是一般的租屋嘛對空屋或漁屋或者是有這個租屋需求的市場的需要的部分那部長我再問你一個問題齁那如果這個包租代管的速度可以這麼快的話"},{"start":364.773,"end":379.731,"text":"那如果這個住宿中心這邊跟地方政府可以配合好那還有比如說像南梓的這個中油宿舍區還有機會蓋的話請問花董事長跟部長你們認為這個方向上你們還會不會評估下去蓋"},{"start":380.336,"end":406.087,"text":"第一個我們是會做彈性的調整像委員所在的左營跟楠梓他未來的人口可能也會繼續的增加因為台積電的二耐米廠已經開設然後還有橋頭科學園區如果有需求的話我們一定會在包租代管跟直接興辦當中做一個最好的彈性調整但是請委員能夠了解第一個它的務實跟可及性也就是說會不會來不及"},{"start":406.747,"end":428.725,"text":"如果現在大家有需求的話如果現在有空屋可以拿出來出租那必須最務實現在馬上要去上班的台積電的青年或是其他的弱勢族群的話如果他要等到五年十年以後才看到房子蓋成那他大概已經轉到別的就業市場所以事實上他是非常務實跟可及性的趕快把大量的包租代管的空屋催出來嘛"},{"start":429.426,"end":450.983,"text":"我們很希望走這個方向好 謝謝 那華董事長我請問你我剛剛講的那個問題齁如果中流宿舍那一區有機會協調好的話住住中心能不能評估來蓋各位報告 那個宿舍未必是一定要蓋社宅啦因為它本來是中流的資產不一定是這個名字啦對對對對那又是可能是更新或怎麼樣子依據高雄在地的需求"},{"start":451.516,"end":467.669,"text":"其實都可以再跟市府這邊再來做溝通好 謝謝我想內政部跟住戶中心用這個比較活化比較滾動式的來趕快快速的來調整這些可以出租的這些房子我想我們這裡表達支持 謝謝謝謝李博議員"}]}},{"id":"167152","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167152","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851edd73acfb1b89e3575d69df13e4e8eda247638a9beb78aab82244cc87e3a1d295ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"09:22:05 - 09:30:58","影片長度":"00:08:53","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:22:05+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:30:58+08:00","duration":533,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.6215937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.8240937500000001,"end":9.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.51471875,"end":69.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.11284375000001,"end":80.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.03096875,"end":84.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.24971875,"end":88.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.04659375,"end":89.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.63721875,"end":90.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.36284375000001,"end":90.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.51471875,"end":90.54846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.63284375,"end":95.42534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.91471875,"end":96.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.96096875,"end":98.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.91846875,"end":104.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.95971875000001,"end":106.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.24221875,"end":155.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.57534375,"end":108.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.06971875000002,"end":158.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.43221875,"end":165.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.82784375,"end":167.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.54909375,"end":172.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.54409375,"end":172.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.98284375,"end":180.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.18409375000002,"end":188.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.59659375,"end":209.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.58471875,"end":240.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.47846875000002,"end":254.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.91534375,"end":262.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.64409375,"end":262.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.43721875,"end":286.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.68659375000004,"end":339.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.11284375,"end":350.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.86221875,"end":351.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.60471875,"end":416.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.48221875,"end":353.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.06721875,"end":362.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.89409375,"end":423.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.64471875000004,"end":420.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.31096875000003,"end":474.67409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.16346875000005,"end":497.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.26971875000004,"end":512.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.18721875,"end":522.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.08534375,"end":516.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.5447187500001,"end":529.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.96909375,"end":532.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.97721875,"end":533.24721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.87,"end":15.862,"text":"主委好我想我今天還是要就我們原來的主題這個圓明會的業務報告也就是向圓明會來救教所以圓明會其實在這麼多年來講我最關心的其實是我們都市"},{"start":16.502,"end":36.862,"text":"原住民的生活而都市聚落所聚會所的建置也是我非常非常關心的一個題目因為大家可以看到其實新北市的原住民人口在六都之中算是第二僅次於桃園也就是說全台灣每100位的都市原住民當中大概就20位是在新北市所以"},{"start":37.282,"end":58.516,"text":"如何在這個地方在都市能夠讓我們的文化可以繼續傳承讓我們的碎石記憶活動可以順利的舉辦其實對都市原住民來講真的是非常重要的一件事情好那主委我現在我們看到這個在2024年開始我們推動了一個計畫叫做建制原住民族群主流"},{"start":59.256,"end":80.32,"text":"原住民族族群主流化友善公共空間計畫持續2024年到2027年那這個計畫其實現在通過了幾案甚至是在前一陣子我們也有一起去會主委也有跟我們一起去會堪過那請問一下主委你覺得這個計畫反應如何現在執行的成效如何謝謝委員那這個計畫在"},{"start":85.305,"end":97.554,"text":"就是去年底12月底我們已經核定補助12個案那已經累計就是說我們核定的經費差不多有3億3千多萬那我們想說這個計劃執行的"},{"start":99.291,"end":124.883,"text":"執行的就是說部落族人很需要所以我想我們陸續還是會繼續來做這個協助跟補助就表示反應不錯就對了好我這邊有一個統計的數字是在六都的申請狀況你剛剛說有超過我現在你剛剛說有核定了12案但是如果是以我們六都因為我這裡是統計六都我目前統計出來的數字是7案那像新北的話申請的是兩案"},{"start":125.663,"end":155.243,"text":"合訂的是一案我想這個合訂的就是在2024年8月30號的時候主委你有和這個吳立華委員吳啟明委員一起去會刊過而他後來的這就是我們的龍恩普案喔龍恩普的這一案我們就合訂而且是動工了動工的時候呢我也有去參與到現場確實是非常的漂亮而且符合大家的使用狀況可是那另外一案呢板橋的這一案為什麼沒有通過"},{"start":157.526,"end":167.061,"text":"這個標準到底是在哪裡因為這個跟那個我們的那個這個龍文譜這個不太一樣那板球這個案呢"},{"start":167.842,"end":186.911,"text":"他部分他的設計都是會議室還有販賣空間的使用這個就比較不符合我們族群這個主流化的這個多功能的這個公共的服務的空間那我想我們也在跟新北市政府是不是他的計畫要做一些修正是不是我們再來做"},{"start":187.831,"end":205.855,"text":"因為我現在你這個計畫既然大家都受歡迎而且也希望可以越做越多那這個標準的部分其實就應該可以要講得更清楚因為目前我們看到的標準呢其實是要可以讓讓這個我們的族群有傳承文化然後還有這個可以"},{"start":209.756,"end":236.286,"text":"原住民族文化傳承或提升原住民族社會福利這個概念其實是滿空泛的如果你說我是做這個商場展售可是在這個商場展售如果是族人朋友自製的我們的文化產品啊等等啊之類的是不是某程度也可以符合呢還是我在展售的過程當中旁邊我也有對於我文化族群的介紹這個是不是就也符合這個標準是什麼"},{"start":237.526,"end":246.793,"text":"主委我是希望園民會這邊是不是可以更清楚的說明好剛剛講委員講的那個就是屬於這個算是這個部落的託說據點但是沒關係"},{"start":248.773,"end":258.6,"text":"這個我們會跟市政府這裡再跟他們來做一個所以你的意思是說現在的計畫其實要做的是遂時記憶場所的整建才符合現在這個計畫對不對目前是這樣目前是這樣所以板橋的這個因為它就是純室內而且是多會議室甚至是展售空間所以就不符合遂時記憶嘛"},{"start":271.969,"end":300.708,"text":"如果這樣講的話那也可以反正標準講清楚那我覺得大家就好做事而且會往這個方向來做事那好如果你是完全是遂時計那我就照主委這個方向來繼續前進的話那各位那個主委你看一下那我們現在再往下一層如果你說剛剛那個商場展售就不管了再怎麼符合文化傳承因為他都不是遂時計那個就不符合了好那我們來看你按照遂時計"},{"start":302.049,"end":307.433,"text":"的這個部分你要補助的話你現在是縣市政府提報但是是鄉鎮區鄉鎮區作為單位來提出嘛然後呢1500人如果這個該區該鄉鎮裡面有超過1500位的族人朋友的人口數的話就可以優先辦理那我把新北市的原住民人口數統計出來的話大約是這樣子的數字也就是說在"},{"start":331.568,"end":349.894,"text":"14號五谷區之前我們是超過1500人的可是15永和區之後其實就沒有到1500人那如果我要來提報這種碎石祭儀場所的參與補助計畫的話我後面這15項15到28是不是就幾乎不可能了尤其我還要跟全國來比是"},{"start":351.69,"end":379.899,"text":"就機會很難了對不對好那主委我在這裡想要特別提出既然我們現在是2024到2027的計畫也就是說他應該可以隨時滾動檢討嘛那我就以這個17號的瑞芳為例主委你也常常去瑞芳啊對不對瑞芳是一個很特別的地方我們的族人朋友人口數非常的多好如果我們這裡的統計數字就算是只有1197人好了可是他的文化活動"},{"start":380.819,"end":407.63,"text":"他的族人活動傳承活動其實是長遠高於其他地區他一年可能就8場10場都有所以主委我是建議你是不是可以在人口數之外另外還有一個指標他的活動舉辦次數到達多少的頻率如果他的人口數雖然不到1500但是他的活動次數比例相當的高高於什麼平均你們原民會可以討論嘛"},{"start":408.49,"end":428.844,"text":"那我覺得這樣子的鄉鎮也應該可以提報列為優先這個申請補助區域主委你同不同意我的建議謝謝委員這建議我想我們會可以考慮吧可以考慮然後列入來好我希望原民會列入考慮啦那另外我也在想提第二個建議第二個建議是說實在的"},{"start":429.124,"end":455.123,"text":"你說如果要在新北市另外找一個地方就像龍恩埔這樣的地方可以蓋那麼大那麼漂亮的碎石記憶場所其實很困難坦白講就是有困難我們剛剛那29區大概很少有地方可以再找一片這樣的樹地台灣的地尤其是北部都會去就是地少所以有沒有可能我們考慮另外一種補助方式就是在某一個空間不管它是戶外或是室內"},{"start":456.184,"end":474.344,"text":"他這個空間我們可以讓他多功能使用就是說原住民族和漢族和客家等等其他族群其實我們共用這個空間原民會提供補助讓這個空間可以修繕具有原住民族舉辦碎石祭儀的功能"},{"start":475.765,"end":496.635,"text":"原民會補助所以讓那個空間比較好可是平常還是開放是大家一般都可以使用只是在碎石祭的時候讓原住民朋友可以優先那段碎石祭的時間讓原住民朋友優先使用這就符合了同一個空間在一整年的時間裡面其實各族群都可以來用"},{"start":497.475,"end":515.662,"text":"但有一個時間我們原住民族朋友族人朋友不用那麼辛苦的去找地方嘛在大家既然原民會補助了這個地方這麼漂亮那平常在碎石祭的時候就讓原住民族人朋友優先使用這個計畫可行嗎好可行我想就是說因為現在有好幾個館也是這樣子他平常"},{"start":517.723,"end":527.654,"text":"是客家朋友也在用對 我們原民會也可以參考使用一下研究一下好不好好 那主委我以上提這兩個建議希望能夠解決都市部落聚會所的問題謝謝謝謝蘇喬會委的質詢"}]}},{"id":"167181","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167181","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f85122554dc39470ea3475d69df13e4e8eda37d2db32b336acc6a1a78cd5b970aaea5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"11:39:27 - 11:51:38","影片長度":"00:12:11","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T11:39:27+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T11:51:38+08:00","duration":731,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.94909375,"end":12.974093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.176593750000002,"end":14.273468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.70284375,"end":21.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.74909375,"end":29.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.152843750000002,"end":36.649718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.37534375,"end":37.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.37534375,"end":38.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.32034375,"end":45.525968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.71659375,"end":41.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.087218750000005,"end":55.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.16159375,"end":56.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.02221875,"end":68.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.95034375,"end":57.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.18471875,"end":69.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.02846875,"end":72.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.15034375,"end":74.75346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.60159375,"end":79.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.88346875,"end":90.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":90.24471875,"end":90.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.29534375,"end":91.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.15596875,"end":91.17284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.22346875000001,"end":93.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.34159375,"end":91.62846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.62846875000001,"end":91.64534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.64534375000001,"end":91.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.66221875000001,"end":91.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.67909375,"end":91.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.69596875,"end":91.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.83909375,"end":106.22534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.19659375,"end":101.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.33096875000001,"end":125.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.54596875,"end":106.79909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":111.87846875000001,"end":113.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.26034375,"end":157.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.04409375,"end":161.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.01409375,"end":162.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.34721875,"end":175.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.42971875,"end":178.21409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.14221875,"end":204.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.69096875000002,"end":205.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.14221875,"end":208.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":208.84221875,"end":208.87596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.87596875000003,"end":208.92659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.36534375000002,"end":213.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.02284375000002,"end":237.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.10784375000003,"end":237.17534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.49596875,"end":237.69846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.69846875000002,"end":261.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.22159375,"end":238.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":243.13221875000002,"end":244.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.02659375000002,"end":244.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.47096875,"end":266.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.19596875,"end":295.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.69284375,"end":274.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.24971875,"end":274.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.98471875,"end":310.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.46784375000004,"end":323.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.64034375,"end":312.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.20534375,"end":316.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.47846875000005,"end":322.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.86659375,"end":322.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.98034375000003,"end":324.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.03909375,"end":330.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.89909375,"end":337.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.14721875000004,"end":346.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.91034375000004,"end":339.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.67721875,"end":353.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.01784375,"end":359.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.44721875000005,"end":373.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.32409375000003,"end":366.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.48346875000004,"end":371.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.91784375000003,"end":380.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.32159375000003,"end":409.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.51534375,"end":452.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.25971875000005,"end":468.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.46409375,"end":469.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.56096875000003,"end":478.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.52159375,"end":483.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.85909375000006,"end":478.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.49971875000006,"end":499.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.44659375000003,"end":501.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.62346875000003,"end":504.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.27284375000005,"end":537.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.97721875,"end":508.35659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.73159375,"end":541.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.00971875,"end":541.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.1615937500001,"end":541.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.3640937499999,"end":541.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.39784375,"end":541.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.8703437500001,"end":542.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.81534375,"end":603.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.50721875,"end":543.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.52409375,"end":543.6084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.6084687499999,"end":543.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.5972187500001,"end":561.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":561.63096875,"end":561.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.5122187500001,"end":565.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.96346875,"end":567.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.05971875,"end":572.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.6159687500001,"end":576.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.42596875,"end":577.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.29534375,"end":620.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.16596875,"end":671.8415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.5490937500001,"end":626.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.87534375,"end":692.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.93721875,"end":681.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.4897187500001,"end":682.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.59784375,"end":713.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.38784375,"end":717.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":713.4722187500001,"end":714.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":717.21846875,"end":727.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.59784375,"end":721.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.79534375,"end":727.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.7990937500001,"end":728.9128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":732.64221875,"end":733.4522187500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.407,"end":14.109,"text":"謝謝主席我想請一下劉世芳部長請劉部長部長好今天的那個主題其實就是我們的社宅原本是宣誓要做13萬"},{"start":30.688,"end":58.296,"text":"那現在可能就往下修我剛剛有聽您大概提到說可能會下修的數量大概是到4到6萬對不對是不是這個數字是目前是這樣子但是還沒有完全定案要看我們跟因為我們還有主要有兩三個市政府還沒有去拜訪那我想說量下修啦可以理解那不過某個部分也是算是一個正式的跳票可是我想品質不會下修吧對不對完全不會完全不會嗎好那我想請教部長"},{"start":59.136,"end":72.567,"text":"因為內政部在2021年有宣示未來興建社宅必須同時符合綠建築、智慧建築跟耐震三大標章2021年就開始 所以這個政策不會改變吧"},{"start":73.206,"end":93.228,"text":"到目前為止也是這樣子沒有改變嗎OK好那我想請教一下確實是有些社宅建案是符合這三種的標章都繼續我想請問一下高雄的人物安居社會住宅是不是完全符合上述的三大標章的規範我是不是請可以請董事長 花董事長請"},{"start":94.311,"end":111.509,"text":"原則上我們的社宅除了最早的一兩個案子可能也只有兩個沒有三個之外我們後面一百因為我們現在一百六十九個案子是所以說應該全部都至少應該都全部都是嗎所以那個忍武安居算在後來的部分嗎不是前面兩個嗎對不對應該是OK好的"},{"start":113.951,"end":137.165,"text":"那我想說確實在住都中心他在整個施工規範跟施工和材料管理標準裡面都非常的清楚都確實也都講到那包括在鋪地磚的這個章節當中的時候也都講得非常的細確實都有那我們去看到了比方說包括蘆洲的青年社宅等等他們確實也都有具體的公佈"},{"start":138.166,"end":157.285,"text":"我們在用地磚的時候它要符合這三大項的一個部分可是因為本席這邊就收到了一些澄清的狀態在高雄人物的這個案件當中的時候它的地磚的部分疑似沒有符合標準你往下看我想請教一下董事長"},{"start":159.39,"end":177.389,"text":"針對那個CM60AB3這個品名的地磚因為這很細啦我也不能指望說你現在馬上可以回覆可是這個地磚當中的時候它是不是符合綠建築標章"},{"start":179.175,"end":205.513,"text":"你應該很難馬上回覆你可以之後再給那我直接跟你講因為這個是越南製的他不符合這個標章而且事實上對於整個既然沒有綠建材標章的時候他也沒有讓納入綠建材資料庫裡面都沒有那環保標章也沒有也沒有綠建材證書像這樣的狀態為什麼可以進到社宅的工地裡頭去可不可以請董事長回應一下"},{"start":209.575,"end":219.723,"text":"一個禮拜請給本席很清楚的資料就是本案件核准所有的地專的一個型號還有綠建材證書的編號跟有效的期間還有送審的材料還有核准的文件這些部分請一併給我們"},{"start":228.749,"end":243.795,"text":"因為我們認為社宅如果總量的時候現在政策上要下修量是一回事 品質不能打折扣所以這個部分請務必給本席一個很清楚狀態一個禮拜可以給本席詳情資料一個禮拜可以"},{"start":245.356,"end":266.628,"text":"好那這個部分的時候我想說我再繼續再問另外一個問題請教部長因為從1月1號開始的時候台灣的那個建築營造業出現了一個土方之亂那我不知道部長知不知道這個事情對在土方跟土資廠的部分我們了解"},{"start":267.976,"end":291.263,"text":"其實對於剩餘土石幫的管理數位化這個部分這個方向本息是支持的可是在整個做的過程當中因為整個制度改變得非常的快去化量 跨縣市的一個調度還有系統韌性跟整個契約配套感覺沒有跟上我想請教部長因為內政部那邊有直接講說目前全國的收納量人"},{"start":291.983,"end":308.535,"text":"是一億五千一百一十萬立方這個數字是怎麼來的然後這個數字當中的時候呢有多少是立即可以動用能量有多少是已經符合所有的法律程序可以用有多少只是計畫當中的可不可以請部長"},{"start":309.635,"end":323.767,"text":"報告委員其實我們在去年五六月的時候呢三個部會已經同時宣告這個部分只是有一些民間業者呢對這方面的了解不夠深入那有關這個總量的部分我是不是請我們這個大署長跟您回應一下"},{"start":326.267,"end":352.327,"text":"委員好那有關這個以五千萬方的這個部分是由行政院跨部會來協調那當然除了原來本來地方政府他就有我要問的是現在馬上可以用的還是未來才可以用因為現在馬上碰到了幾個大問題一個是去化量能不足第二個狀態就是內政部這邊說我們一天台灣至少要有六千台的那個運輸的車"},{"start":354.268,"end":379.262,"text":"要裝GPS 新的政策要裝GPS請問現在總共有裝到多少的量現在我們的內增部的GPS已經到近5000台快5000台嘛 然後再加上環保的機它目前也有1832 總共有6821台那請教一下代理署長你知道現在目前這個狀態的時候目前整個業界幾乎都停擺因為"},{"start":381.343,"end":408.408,"text":"碰到幾個狀態因為整個土方城門馬上的一個上升然後呢工程可能會碰到延宕的一個問題那我直接講比較具體的狀態因為你剛剛還沒有回答我就是1億5110萬立方可以處理的量如果有這麼多去化量的時候正常不會造成市場上這麼塞車的情況因為我們去年整個公共工程這邊出來的數字大概是3600萬立方米一年的使用去化量可是如果說有1.5億"},{"start":410.783,"end":439.31,"text":"這麼大的一個去化量的時候正常不應該塞車啦那我們也確實是希望說我們這個制度好的制度讓整個台灣的環境好的制度我們就要往下走只是過程當中怎麼樣讓它走得順剛剛部長這邊有提到說是廠商還不了解狀態這個就是我們在推動政策的時候必須要去處理的問題啊不能夠所有的問題就全部都推給廠商去嘛我們要協助他們來解決所以我這邊最後一個部分我想很具體的要求國土署這邊"},{"start":440.35,"end":464.891,"text":"是不是能夠去了解去調查一下目前這些公共工程的部分大概有多少會因為這樣的一個土石方的一個政策的一個調整而受到延宕如果是受到延宕的時候是不是能夠協調公共工程委員會用制度性的來處理這件事情然後讓這些工程延宕的部分能夠有一個"},{"start":466.512,"end":489.758,"text":"調整的一個標準可不可以請代理署長回答一下是那有關目前來講公共工程部分其實現在院裡面都有在來協調所以公共工程的部分其實沒有太大問題現在主要是民間工程那我們今天也會在下午因為其實我們已經部長在上個禮拜已經都邀集我們六都以及新竹縣市來討論那今天下午會把所有的縣市通通再找來把現在所有的這個處理的這個"},{"start":490.998,"end":506.365,"text":"對策 向大家說明 目前來講我們內政部都有積極 譬如像剛剛講的GPS的裝還有這些最終的處置的這些場所那這一五千萬方式有些是中長期的沒有錯 但是目前中長期就沒有辦法滿足現在的狀態所以現在才會塞車嘛"},{"start":508.146,"end":537.606,"text":"那你剛剛提到說公共工程部分可能可以顧到可是民間的業者完全塞車那我在想說新政策推出一定也不是只要滿足公共工程的需求我們希望整個市場都能夠得到一樣的一個照顧好不好所以針對這個部分的時候我們希望說國土組這邊很具體的告訴我們有多少的量可以馬上去做去化的而不是只處理公共工程的部分民間的部分也需要讓他們有一個合理的去化的一個去向好不好"},{"start":543.19,"end":566.726,"text":"報告委員我想我們必須要很務實的跟委員報告我們大概三個方向第一個就是擴增土資場您剛所提到的擴增土資場的部分我們經協調交通部在台北港台中港以及高雄港的部分那目前的量大概是一億五千萬方但是現在可以用的量大概是三千萬方到四千萬方可用那有關公共工程的土資的部分其實沒有問題但是按照原來的步驟去走就可以了"},{"start":567.086,"end":592.982,"text":"再來就是簡化還有要求要加裝GPS因為如果沒有加裝GPS因為包括新竹縣市政府還有台北市政府要求他們可以跨域去清運這些土資那如果你沒有GPS的話可能就是會變成亂道會變成是環保的大問題因為後續的處理會更糟糕那我們現在就是想辦法把不合法的這個土資的管道把它堵住這是一點所以也非常謝謝委員的支持"},{"start":593.562,"end":600.686,"text":"那現在GPS的量我們採取雙軌制一個就是如果你在內政部已經有申請GPS的話那當然沒問題 現在已經達到5000輛那還有以前因為配合環境部在處理有關GPS他那個地方比較沒有實質上的部分可是我們覺得可以雙軌那這個縣市政府也願意來支持而且要求如果在雙軌上面有一些時間差的話那縣市政府在處理這個集合他們願意幫忙那這一點大概"},{"start":621.839,"end":634.008,"text":"包括新竹縣市政府在內的七個縣市政府都同意用這樣的方向來處理這一個那再來就是簡化行政流程所謂的簡化行政流程的部分就是說如果你要加裝GPS的話我們會在兩天內只要你申請大概就會通過還有一個我們把這個砂石車啊"},{"start":640.914,"end":647.963,"text":"這個不是只有現在的砂石車包括你一般的8.8噸到3.5噸以上的車子他如果願意來清運土石的話我們也會讓他來處理那這一點我們跟交通部還有監理所已經談妥"},{"start":655.293,"end":672.569,"text":"所以事實上在一個禮拜的時間內我們把這個北台灣去化量比較不足的狀況已經做了部分的處理那再來就是執行面的部分那執行面的部分的話縣市地方政府的包括他們都發或是公務等等這些他們在配合程度上都有提到就希望說業者"},{"start":673.49,"end":690.068,"text":"不要因為GPS是不是可以緩緩的部分請他們不要觀望因為如果一觀望的話就會造成更大的塞車因為會造成更大的環保問題那以上相關的部分如果這個您對新竹市政府或是新竹縣政府所需要的土資量需要多少的話我們會後再查給這個委員來做參考"},{"start":693.332,"end":716.406,"text":"謝謝部長因為我在想這個問題確實是目前整個業界碰到的問題那我也給你很完整的部分去做說明你剛提到說我們目前盤整出來有3000到4000萬立方米可以用那我想說你之後再給我更詳細的一個資料然後在有關於GPS的部分我要特別提醒一個狀態AB車的問題請務必要特別去處理剛講的就是AB車A到B到C這三點的部分都已經處理了"},{"start":717.687,"end":727.114,"text":"A到B到C不是這個狀態我想說你用合法的牌照的時候可是你用非法的部分去處理這個部分請務必要同時去處理交通部我們會跟他們一起來協調謝謝"}]}},{"id":"17209","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17209","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d831044d4eb4d2098a2fa0912ee5911b60a219bd209750d2da7d7a3c41171b55c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-19","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-19T08:37:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:43:00+08:00","duration":18360,"影片長度":"05:06:00","委員發言時間":"08:37:00 - 13:43:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":654.03846875,"end":654.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":673.14096875,"end":674.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1453.5928437500002,"end":1461.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1461.8953437500002,"end":1466.8565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1467.48096875,"end":1482.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1482.9047187500003,"end":1484.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1485.1322187500002,"end":1502.1590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1504.8084687500002,"end":1505.7872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1506.1078437500003,"end":1519.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1519.7428437500002,"end":1535.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1535.8584687500002,"end":1536.5672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1538.4234687500002,"end":1542.7940937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1543.3172187500002,"end":1549.8984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1550.45534375,"end":1558.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1558.87596875,"end":1587.7322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1590.22971875,"end":1597.8740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1598.2284687500003,"end":1601.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1603.18971875,"end":1604.6578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1605.55221875,"end":1607.8809687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1608.0665937500003,"end":1611.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1613.9728437500003,"end":1640.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1642.00221875,"end":1642.9134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1644.24659375,"end":1648.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1651.5028437500002,"end":1654.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1658.16846875,"end":1661.1722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1664.0240937500002,"end":1667.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1669.00221875,"end":1669.2215937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1671.51659375,"end":1674.7228437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1677.55784375,"end":1680.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1683.0759687500001,"end":1685.9109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1688.8472187500001,"end":1692.5259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1696.1709687500002,"end":1700.4065937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1703.1909687500001,"end":1712.1009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1718.2772187500002,"end":1723.6603437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1727.62596875,"end":1728.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1729.02659375,"end":1729.8028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1729.9715937500002,"end":1733.0428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1735.77659375,"end":1744.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1747.7747187500001,"end":1750.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1750.8965937500002,"end":1753.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1754.3053437500002,"end":1758.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1770.3197187500002,"end":1771.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1772.4459687500002,"end":1773.6609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1774.1334687500002,"end":1774.7747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1775.7028437500003,"end":1782.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1782.46971875,"end":1784.2415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1785.00096875,"end":1794.3497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1794.6703437500003,"end":1795.6659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1797.4547187500002,"end":1800.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1801.47096875,"end":1802.0953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1803.0909687500002,"end":1803.6478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1804.0190937500001,"end":1804.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1805.8584687500002,"end":1807.3097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1807.7315937500002,"end":1810.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1810.1109687500002,"end":1812.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1813.1653437500001,"end":1816.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1817.2322187500001,"end":1817.8734687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1818.17721875,"end":1819.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1819.7128437500003,"end":1820.6915937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1821.01221875,"end":1823.2059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1823.5772187500002,"end":1826.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1826.8003437500001,"end":1829.2134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1830.15846875,"end":1831.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1831.7953437500003,"end":1834.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1835.5922187500003,"end":1839.3890937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1839.6759687500003,"end":1842.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1842.7134687500002,"end":1843.3378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1843.92846875,"end":1844.4347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1845.0928437500002,"end":1845.5653437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1846.0547187500001,"end":1847.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1847.6240937500002,"end":1848.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1849.27784375,"end":1858.7953437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1859.2340937500003,"end":1862.4065937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1862.5922187500003,"end":1866.5409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1866.8278437500003,"end":1867.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1868.54909375,"end":1869.8653437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1870.8947187500003,"end":1878.2184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1878.8934687500002,"end":1880.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1881.3572187500001,"end":1886.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1886.80784375,"end":1889.1365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1890.0309687500003,"end":1893.3553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1894.0640937500002,"end":1895.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1897.0340937500002,"end":1902.3328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1902.9572187500003,"end":1910.0784687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1910.6859687500003,"end":1926.9872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1927.0209687500003,"end":1930.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1930.8515937500001,"end":1939.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1935.3909687500002,"end":1935.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1939.4915937500002,"end":1942.4109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1942.9003437500003,"end":1950.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1950.7303437500002,"end":1954.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1954.72971875,"end":1956.3497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1956.6534687500002,"end":1958.4422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1959.0665937500003,"end":1959.8428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1960.1634687500002,"end":1961.0072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1961.6990937500002,"end":1962.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1963.2853437500003,"end":1964.7872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1966.3734687500003,"end":1968.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1969.2590937500001,"end":1971.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1971.7228437500003,"end":1973.6465937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1973.9672187500003,"end":1980.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1980.3797187500002,"end":1981.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1982.30346875,"end":1984.4972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1984.7672187500002,"end":1987.8384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1988.7497187500003,"end":1992.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1993.27221875,"end":2015.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2016.4247187500002,"end":2021.4703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2021.8584687500002,"end":2023.6134687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2024.4234687500002,"end":2027.3597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2028.3215937500001,"end":2030.3634687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2031.4265937500002,"end":2034.8690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2035.74659375,"end":2040.3534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2040.80909375,"end":2043.9647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2044.5553437500002,"end":2047.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2048.21721875,"end":2051.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2051.9803437500004,"end":2056.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2058.0722187500005,"end":2060.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2060.85659375,"end":2061.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2062.1053437500004,"end":2064.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2065.15971875,"end":2066.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2068.53471875,"end":2069.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2070.40784375,"end":2071.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2071.70721875,"end":2072.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2073.78284375,"end":2075.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2076.01034375,"end":2081.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2082.08534375,"end":2083.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2084.54909375,"end":2089.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2090.45534375,"end":2097.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2097.6609687500004,"end":2103.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2104.5965937500005,"end":2105.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2106.68909375,"end":2108.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2109.2878437500003,"end":2109.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2111.31284375,"end":2122.2647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2122.41659375,"end":2122.8553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2123.4122187500006,"end":2126.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2130.1453437500004,"end":2142.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2143.07159375,"end":2165.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2166.32534375,"end":2170.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2174.66159375,"end":2176.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2176.6190937500005,"end":2177.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2183.94284375,"end":2184.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2184.71909375,"end":2185.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2185.81596875,"end":2193.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2193.6797187500006,"end":2194.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2194.42221875,"end":2201.6953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2202.38721875,"end":2208.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2208.58034375,"end":2214.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2214.72284375,"end":2230.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2230.4840937500003,"end":2311.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2291.58846875,"end":2291.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2312.71596875,"end":2314.9940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2314.30221875,"end":2338.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2339.3953437500004,"end":2339.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2340.3065937500005,"end":2344.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2345.09909375,"end":2345.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2347.3603437500005,"end":2349.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2350.1784687500003,"end":2351.9334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2351.83221875,"end":2356.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2352.01784375,"end":2352.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2356.18596875,"end":2357.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2356.96221875,"end":2358.0928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2358.3797187500004,"end":2362.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2361.36659375,"end":2362.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2362.0078437500006,"end":2362.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2362.34534375,"end":2377.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2362.37909375,"end":2362.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2377.34721875,"end":2386.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2385.9197187500004,"end":2395.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2391.08346875,"end":2391.9609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2395.40346875,"end":2397.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2397.69846875,"end":2408.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2407.5534687500003,"end":2420.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2419.93971875,"end":2422.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2422.47096875,"end":2429.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2428.8497187500006,"end":2436.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2435.7009687500004,"end":2454.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2443.5478437500005,"end":2444.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2444.18909375,"end":2444.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2454.1622187500006,"end":2454.6853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2454.7022187500006,"end":2482.9003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2455.2928437500004,"end":2456.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2469.06284375,"end":2469.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2469.19784375,"end":2471.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2471.4590937500006,"end":2471.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2482.4784687500005,"end":2484.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2484.0478437500005,"end":2499.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2499.7078437500004,"end":2530.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2529.40784375,"end":2530.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2530.4372187500003,"end":2556.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2553.3028437500006,"end":2558.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2558.3990937500002,"end":2560.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2558.7872187500006,"end":2560.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2560.5928437500006,"end":2560.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2561.04846875,"end":2568.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2567.4440937500003,"end":2572.2028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2571.2409687500003,"end":2574.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2574.17721875,"end":2585.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2585.75346875,"end":2586.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2586.90096875,"end":2590.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2590.4784687500005,"end":2595.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2595.22034375,"end":2600.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2596.3678437500002,"end":2597.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2597.9372187500003,"end":2600.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2600.7722187500003,"end":2605.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2605.8347187500003,"end":2610.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2608.58534375,"end":2634.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2633.4422187500004,"end":2640.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2639.5340937500005,"end":2656.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2655.12659375,"end":2659.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2658.48471875,"end":2667.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2665.35284375,"end":2665.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2666.0447187500004,"end":2667.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2667.6309687500006,"end":2670.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2669.26784375,"end":2673.8409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2671.2253437500003,"end":2676.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2676.8953437500004,"end":2679.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2679.88221875,"end":2681.8397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2682.05909375,"end":2694.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2690.8340937500006,"end":2690.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2694.0740937500004,"end":2728.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2726.42346875,"end":2730.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2730.25409375,"end":2731.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2731.7390937500004,"end":2731.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2731.9753437500003,"end":2734.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2733.20721875,"end":2736.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2735.4684687500003,"end":2737.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2738.4890937500004,"end":2744.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2745.0028437500005,"end":2745.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2745.01971875,"end":2746.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2745.1209687500004,"end":2748.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2747.8378437500005,"end":2753.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2754.7734687500006,"end":2756.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2757.45659375,"end":2770.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2769.8428437500006,"end":2788.3209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2774.3653437500006,"end":2774.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2774.43284375,"end":2774.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2774.50034375,"end":2774.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2786.5828437500004,"end":2789.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2789.8397187500004,"end":2792.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2792.47221875,"end":2795.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2792.75909375,"end":2793.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2796.2353437500005,"end":2800.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2799.01971875,"end":2799.2897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2799.76221875,"end":2800.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2800.6397187500006,"end":2807.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2803.74471875,"end":2804.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2807.84534375,"end":2811.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2810.71409375,"end":2812.9922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2813.9540937500005,"end":2816.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2816.08034375,"end":2817.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2817.6159687500003,"end":2817.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2817.64971875,"end":2821.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2820.24846875,"end":2822.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2821.86846875,"end":2823.1847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2823.0497187500005,"end":2823.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2823.43784375,"end":2825.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2825.8340937500006,"end":2827.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2827.7409687500003,"end":2830.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2830.3903437500003,"end":2834.2715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2834.2715937500006,"end":2855.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2850.06659375,"end":2865.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2862.68909375,"end":2863.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2865.4903437500006,"end":2868.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2868.4265937500004,"end":2883.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2883.6815937500005,"end":2885.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2885.50409375,"end":2886.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2886.2128437500005,"end":2890.6678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2889.62159375,"end":2892.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2891.6803437500002,"end":2892.1190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2892.5240937500002,"end":2897.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2898.05909375,"end":2901.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2900.5397187500002,"end":2909.2472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2909.2472187500007,"end":2911.4747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2910.69846875,"end":2911.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2911.7784687500007,"end":2914.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2915.47409375,"end":2917.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2917.81971875,"end":2917.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2917.8365937500002,"end":2918.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2917.88721875,"end":2919.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2919.1697187500004,"end":2920.2159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2919.97971875,"end":2931.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2929.39596875,"end":2941.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2941.7147187500004,"end":2949.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2950.42221875,"end":2951.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2951.31659375,"end":2953.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2953.1728437500005,"end":2966.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2954.1853437500004,"end":2954.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2965.84596875,"end":2966.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2966.87534375,"end":2971.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2972.5284687500007,"end":2989.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2987.5303437500006,"end":2998.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2991.0234687500006,"end":2991.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2995.7147187500004,"end":2996.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2997.0309687500003,"end":2997.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2998.14471875,"end":3011.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3006.66659375,"end":3007.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3011.3240937500004,"end":3037.9022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3016.8253437500007,"end":3017.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3032.8565937500007,"end":3033.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3035.7928437500004,"end":3047.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3047.04846875,"end":3062.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3062.70846875,"end":3065.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3065.3409687500007,"end":3094.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3069.20534375,"end":3073.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3088.4765937500006,"end":3090.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3094.41659375,"end":3095.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3095.73284375,"end":3098.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3098.43284375,"end":3099.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3105.06471875,"end":3105.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3108.74346875,"end":3110.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3116.26971875,"end":3119.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3125.80409375,"end":3126.2597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3126.46221875,"end":3127.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3127.9978437500004,"end":3182.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3183.3309687500005,"end":3186.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3188.05596875,"end":3201.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3202.0115937500004,"end":3208.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3208.30596875,"end":3208.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3208.32284375,"end":3208.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3208.3397187500004,"end":3208.3565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3208.3565937500007,"end":3208.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3208.60971875,"end":3208.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3208.72784375,"end":3240.1659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3240.62159375,"end":3252.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3252.7040937500005,"end":3261.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3262.42409375,"end":3263.9259687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3262.9472187500005,"end":3270.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3264.3478437500007,"end":3265.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3269.89971875,"end":3272.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3270.6590937500005,"end":3271.0978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3272.12721875,"end":3324.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3323.35971875,"end":3327.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3326.6334687500002,"end":3331.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3331.5778437500003,"end":3335.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3333.13034375,"end":3338.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3339.3740937500006,"end":3345.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3343.20471875,"end":3344.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3345.0272187500004,"end":3347.9972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3348.4528437500003,"end":3369.1922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3369.3778437500005,"end":3387.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3388.4972187500007,"end":3395.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3395.98971875,"end":3401.8115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3402.31784375,"end":3414.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3414.8053437500002,"end":3415.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3416.0372187500006,"end":3418.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3417.26909375,"end":3421.0997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3420.3572187500004,"end":3466.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3422.9728437500007,"end":3423.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3466.8984687500006,"end":3467.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3467.8603437500005,"end":3480.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3480.36471875,"end":3495.9572187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3488.92034375,"end":3490.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3495.36659375,"end":3495.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3495.85596875,"end":3499.1972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3499.28159375,"end":3503.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3504.3778437500005,"end":3506.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3505.4072187500005,"end":3523.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3522.3328437500004,"end":3524.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3524.23971875,"end":3524.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3524.4590937500006,"end":3524.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3524.52659375,"end":3524.6447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3524.6447187500007,"end":3524.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3524.66159375,"end":3524.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3524.77971875,"end":3525.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3525.03284375,"end":3531.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3531.8503437500003,"end":3532.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3532.0359687500004,"end":3532.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3532.12034375,"end":3532.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3532.20471875,"end":3535.2253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3535.15784375,"end":3535.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3535.20846875,"end":3537.1153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3536.6765937500004,"end":3537.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3537.48659375,"end":3555.4922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3556.1334687500002,"end":3559.4747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3559.54221875,"end":3559.6603437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3559.6603437500007,"end":3559.8965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3559.8965937500006,"end":3559.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3559.96409375,"end":3560.5040937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3560.5040937500007,"end":3561.5672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3561.5672187500004,"end":3608.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3582.5428437500004,"end":3583.5047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3590.7272187500002,"end":3593.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3594.2540937500007,"end":3594.7097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3607.0790937500005,"end":3609.5428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3608.0240937500002,"end":3609.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3609.88034375,"end":3632.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3633.55596875,"end":3640.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3640.7109687500006,"end":3645.6553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3643.69784375,"end":3671.5753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3672.18284375,"end":3673.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3673.4990937500006,"end":3688.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3687.6403437500003,"end":3693.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3690.7284687500005,"end":3700.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3700.1447187500007,"end":3711.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3712.2440937500005,"end":3733.0509687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3732.3759687500005,"end":3732.5109687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3733.37159375,"end":3736.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3737.21909375,"end":3743.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3744.39096875,"end":3754.9884687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3753.5878437500005,"end":3778.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3769.5515937500004,"end":3769.9903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3772.96034375,"end":3774.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3778.4278437500006,"end":3793.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3793.75034375,"end":3796.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3794.59409375,"end":3795.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3795.7753437500005,"end":3796.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3796.8553437500004,"end":3797.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3797.3447187500005,"end":3800.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3797.66534375,"end":3798.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3800.1122187500005,"end":3801.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3802.42409375,"end":3817.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3806.52471875,"end":3806.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3806.7947187500004,"end":3806.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3806.8622187500005,"end":3806.8790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3817.98284375,"end":3823.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3824.31096875,"end":3824.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3825.52596875,"end":3825.8634687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3826.06596875,"end":3843.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3843.6834687500004,"end":3852.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3844.8478437500007,"end":3846.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3853.36971875,"end":3854.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3854.02784375,"end":3876.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3875.2734687500006,"end":3876.9103437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3876.69096875,"end":3876.7922187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3877.9059687500003,"end":3879.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3879.8972187500003,"end":3879.9140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3882.2428437500002,"end":3882.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3882.47909375,"end":3893.0428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3892.6209687500004,"end":3896.4347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3893.9372187500003,"end":3894.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3896.4684687500003,"end":3904.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3905.3953437500004,"end":3908.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3906.81284375,"end":3907.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3909.4284687500003,"end":3911.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3911.57159375,"end":3913.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3913.37721875,"end":3914.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3914.4909687500003,"end":3915.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3915.4022187500004,"end":3916.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3917.5790937500005,"end":3919.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3920.1103437500005,"end":3921.2072187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3921.6290937500007,"end":3928.6153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3929.0372187500006,"end":3929.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3929.8134687500005,"end":3930.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3930.9440937500003,"end":3954.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3954.60284375,"end":3983.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3984.7584687500002,"end":3987.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3988.23471875,"end":3998.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3998.78159375,"end":3999.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3999.2540937500007,"end":4009.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4009.76721875,"end":4025.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4025.6803437500002,"end":4027.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4029.1397187500006,"end":4030.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4030.8778437500005,"end":4047.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4047.41534375,"end":4049.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4049.2547187500004,"end":4075.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4075.37721875,"end":4091.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4092.13409375,"end":4093.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4093.5009687500005,"end":4096.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4097.432843750001,"end":4098.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4097.466593749999,"end":4100.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4098.884093750001,"end":4103.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4103.96346875,"end":4110.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4110.81471875,"end":4113.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4113.177218750001,"end":4132.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4132.80284375,"end":4140.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4139.63721875,"end":4140.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4140.02534375,"end":4140.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4140.3290937500005,"end":4141.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4141.69596875,"end":4142.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4142.759093750001,"end":4143.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4143.0965937500005,"end":4144.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4144.14284375,"end":4144.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4144.27784375,"end":4145.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4146.977843750001,"end":4149.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4152.66471875,"end":4164.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4172.290343750001,"end":4174.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4181.807843750001,"end":4184.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4184.710343750001,"end":4185.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4190.92034375,"end":4191.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4191.966593749999,"end":4192.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4193.02971875,"end":4220.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4221.16034375,"end":4222.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4222.61159375,"end":4222.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4223.185343749999,"end":4227.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4227.741593750001,"end":4234.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4234.626593749999,"end":4236.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4234.66034375,"end":4235.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4236.651593750001,"end":4240.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4238.811593750001,"end":4239.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4240.296593749999,"end":4244.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4244.3465937500005,"end":4246.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4247.147843750001,"end":4257.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4254.15096875,"end":4254.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4258.251593749999,"end":4286.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4286.50034375,"end":4292.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4292.794718749999,"end":4301.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4300.810343749999,"end":4305.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4305.95721875,"end":4313.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4313.6522187499995,"end":4348.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4314.05721875,"end":4314.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4328.4853437500005,"end":4329.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4329.02534375,"end":4329.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4329.29534375,"end":4329.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4349.07284375,"end":4360.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4358.69159375,"end":4412.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4361.12159375,"end":4361.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4371.4490937499995,"end":4371.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4371.56721875,"end":4371.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4371.685343749999,"end":4371.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4412.3709687499995,"end":4424.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4421.26409375,"end":4422.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4424.13284375,"end":4425.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4424.470343749999,"end":4431.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4425.24659375,"end":4425.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4430.427218750001,"end":4514.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4516.00034375,"end":4530.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4531.50846875,"end":4536.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4533.972218749999,"end":4584.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4538.12346875,"end":4538.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4548.40034375,"end":4548.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4558.52534375,"end":4558.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4558.79534375,"end":4558.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4558.8290937500005,"end":4558.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4558.964093750001,"end":4559.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4559.16659375,"end":4560.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4586.36909375,"end":4588.394093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4588.41096875,"end":4592.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4592.325968749999,"end":4595.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4596.038468750001,"end":4608.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4607.07471875,"end":4613.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4614.14534375,"end":4615.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4615.5965937500005,"end":4616.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4616.794718749999,"end":4617.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4617.0478437500005,"end":4636.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4627.729718750001,"end":4627.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4627.93221875,"end":4627.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4636.89284375,"end":4643.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4644.739718750001,"end":4649.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4650.62909375,"end":4651.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4651.97909375,"end":4653.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4652.805968750001,"end":4655.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4655.55659375,"end":4656.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4656.77159375,"end":4663.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4663.09971875,"end":4664.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4664.63534375,"end":4665.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4666.28909375,"end":4668.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4668.921593749999,"end":4705.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4676.7684687500005,"end":4676.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4676.78534375,"end":4676.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4676.802218750001,"end":4676.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4704.91596875,"end":4724.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4717.015343749999,"end":4717.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4721.9090937500005,"end":4776.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4777.84971875,"end":4780.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4783.1990937499995,"end":4785.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4786.4559687500005,"end":4786.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4787.569718750001,"end":4835.798468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4837.215968750001,"end":4837.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4837.51971875,"end":4838.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4838.97096875,"end":4839.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4840.13534375,"end":4842.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4842.63284375,"end":4844.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4845.29909375,"end":4858.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4857.61784375,"end":4860.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4861.718468749999,"end":4862.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4864.84034375,"end":4866.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4866.6122187500005,"end":4867.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4867.725968750001,"end":4867.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4867.962218750001,"end":4871.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4867.97909375,"end":4867.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4868.856593750001,"end":4869.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4872.6365937499995,"end":4872.923468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4873.37909375,"end":4875.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4874.54346875,"end":4877.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4877.378468750001,"end":4879.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4878.67784375,"end":4902.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4903.450343750001,"end":4928.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4910.470343749999,"end":4910.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4910.53784375,"end":4910.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4910.571593750001,"end":4910.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4917.372218750001,"end":4917.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4928.67846875,"end":4931.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4932.458468750001,"end":4933.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4932.644093750001,"end":4981.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4954.767218749999,"end":4954.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4954.9022187499995,"end":4954.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4954.9697187500005,"end":4955.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4981.952843749999,"end":5000.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4991.63909375,"end":4991.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4991.97659375,"end":4992.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4997.292218750001,"end":4997.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5000.73471875,"end":5095.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5095.622843749999,"end":5099.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5099.706593750001,"end":5109.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5109.39284375,"end":5114.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5112.312218749999,"end":5151.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5144.526593750001,"end":5147.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5149.352843750001,"end":5151.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5151.698468750001,"end":5171.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5171.88096875,"end":5175.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5175.509093750001,"end":5177.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5177.669093750001,"end":5179.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5179.60971875,"end":5181.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5179.964093750001,"end":5181.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5181.34784375,"end":5181.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5182.731593750001,"end":5185.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5197.04159375,"end":5199.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5205.85034375,"end":5207.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5208.06096875,"end":5208.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5208.56721875,"end":5209.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5216.12721875,"end":5216.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5217.173468749999,"end":5238.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5239.04346875,"end":5323.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5324.667218750001,"end":5446.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5446.47096875,"end":5491.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5491.392218749999,"end":5519.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5520.33284375,"end":5522.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5522.577218750001,"end":5542.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5523.370343750001,"end":5523.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5542.70909375,"end":5547.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5547.90659375,"end":5559.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5559.0272187499995,"end":5559.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5559.80346875,"end":5576.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5577.218468749999,"end":5649.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5608.18409375,"end":5608.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5608.200968749999,"end":5609.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5609.280968749999,"end":5609.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5609.39909375,"end":5609.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5609.854718750001,"end":5610.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5610.02346875,"end":5610.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5610.968468749999,"end":5611.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5632.46721875,"end":5632.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5643.16596875,"end":5644.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5649.67971875,"end":5652.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5652.76784375,"end":5655.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5654.235968749999,"end":5654.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5655.2147187499995,"end":5655.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5655.99096875,"end":5661.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5661.01971875,"end":5680.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5680.18971875,"end":5708.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5701.89096875,"end":5701.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5701.907843749999,"end":5703.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5707.392218749999,"end":5738.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5716.639718750001,"end":5716.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5716.70721875,"end":5716.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5716.97721875,"end":5717.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5718.7997187500005,"end":5720.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5737.75034375,"end":5739.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5739.184718750001,"end":5760.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5739.67409375,"end":5739.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5743.57221875,"end":5744.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5750.237843750001,"end":5750.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5758.23659375,"end":5759.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5759.97471875,"end":5773.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5760.413468750001,"end":5760.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5771.31471875,"end":5771.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5771.36534375,"end":5771.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5773.170968750001,"end":5795.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5795.935343749999,"end":5916.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5826.68159375,"end":5828.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5839.97909375,"end":5840.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5916.372218750001,"end":5920.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5918.565968750001,"end":5927.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5920.92846875,"end":5921.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5925.923468750001,"end":5927.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5927.07096875,"end":5935.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5928.606593750001,"end":5929.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5934.090968750001,"end":5934.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5935.32284375,"end":5947.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5935.862843750001,"end":5936.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5941.27971875,"end":5941.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5946.325343750001,"end":5948.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5947.962218750001,"end":5950.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5948.805968750001,"end":5948.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5948.92409375,"end":5949.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5951.40471875,"end":5963.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5963.4872187500005,"end":5990.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5990.234093749999,"end":6000.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6000.34221875,"end":6003.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6001.0340937500005,"end":6001.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6003.734093749999,"end":6007.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6007.41284375,"end":6007.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6007.51409375,"end":6007.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6007.56471875,"end":6043.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6007.581593750001,"end":6008.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6013.167218750001,"end":6014.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6042.225968750001,"end":6067.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6046.66409375,"end":6047.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6047.2040937500005,"end":6047.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6067.55534375,"end":6087.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6087.01221875,"end":6087.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6087.43409375,"end":6087.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6087.467843750001,"end":6087.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6087.80534375,"end":6089.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6087.82221875,"end":6087.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6089.77971875,"end":6089.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6090.404093749999,"end":6090.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6090.420968750001,"end":6094.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6109.590968750001,"end":6109.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6113.32034375,"end":6114.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6114.872843749999,"end":6115.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6115.14284375,"end":6115.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6115.345343750001,"end":6115.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6124.32284375,"end":6131.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6141.34971875,"end":6142.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6143.22284375,"end":6144.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6147.91409375,"end":6151.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6150.7997187500005,"end":6151.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6153.044093750001,"end":6153.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6154.19159375,"end":6155.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6156.874718749999,"end":6173.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6174.71159375,"end":6201.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6202.4540937500005,"end":6203.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6204.52971875,"end":6207.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6208.00596875,"end":6228.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6229.2684687500005,"end":6231.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6232.03596875,"end":6259.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6260.335343750001,"end":6267.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6268.36784375,"end":6276.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6276.552218750001,"end":6277.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6276.6365937499995,"end":6278.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6278.239718750001,"end":6278.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6278.96534375,"end":6299.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6289.950968749999,"end":6292.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6293.86596875,"end":6296.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6298.74284375,"end":6351.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6352.118468750001,"end":6368.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6369.34784375,"end":6416.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6388.60221875,"end":6388.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6418.200968749999,"end":6424.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6424.61346875,"end":6426.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6427.70159375,"end":6444.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6444.57659375,"end":6452.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6453.19971875,"end":6481.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6481.6678437499995,"end":6489.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6489.1434687500005,"end":6492.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6492.501593750001,"end":6501.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6501.968468749999,"end":6564.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6506.69346875,"end":6507.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6507.85784375,"end":6507.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6564.96284375,"end":6583.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6583.94721875,"end":6615.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6596.68784375,"end":6596.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6599.11784375,"end":6602.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6608.905343750001,"end":6610.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6610.52534375,"end":6610.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6613.27596875,"end":6613.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6614.74409375,"end":6633.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6634.065968750001,"end":6638.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6637.626593750001,"end":6642.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6642.0478437500005,"end":6642.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6642.43596875,"end":6645.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6645.96284375,"end":6663.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6663.698468750001,"end":6667.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6665.858468750001,"end":6674.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6672.20346875,"end":6672.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6673.030343750001,"end":6675.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6675.07221875,"end":6677.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6678.05909375,"end":6683.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6683.610968750001,"end":6683.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6683.96534375,"end":6693.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6692.11596875,"end":6701.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6699.89534375,"end":6709.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6709.88534375,"end":6730.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6728.093468749999,"end":6729.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6730.94534375,"end":6742.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6731.53596875,"end":6731.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6741.374093750001,"end":6749.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6749.03534375,"end":6754.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6755.194718750001,"end":6757.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6757.118468750001,"end":6757.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6757.253468750001,"end":6757.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6757.304093750001,"end":6757.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6757.5740937499995,"end":6757.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6757.725968750001,"end":6757.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6757.74284375,"end":6757.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6757.962218750001,"end":6777.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6773.757218750001,"end":6784.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6780.10221875,"end":6780.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6783.49409375,"end":6800.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6800.6728437500005,"end":6806.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6806.3934687500005,"end":6816.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6816.7040937500005,"end":6827.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6827.95971875,"end":6828.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6831.8240937499995,"end":6847.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6846.52221875,"end":6849.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6850.18409375,"end":6851.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6851.34846875,"end":6852.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6852.81659375,"end":6854.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6856.27596875,"end":6859.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6859.110968750001,"end":6860.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6860.190968750001,"end":6860.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6860.899718750001,"end":6864.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6863.16096875,"end":6864.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6864.831593750001,"end":6865.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6865.624718749999,"end":6866.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6866.55284375,"end":6866.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6866.569718750001,"end":6883.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6886.060343749999,"end":6888.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6888.979718750001,"end":6891.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6890.667218750001,"end":6900.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6894.6834687499995,"end":6897.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6897.38346875,"end":6897.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6901.04534375,"end":6905.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6906.10784375,"end":6915.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6914.5790937500005,"end":6932.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6932.331593750001,"end":6946.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6946.9959687499995,"end":6949.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6950.26971875,"end":6950.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6951.16409375,"end":6951.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6952.0584687499995,"end":6953.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6953.762843750001,"end":6974.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6974.97471875,"end":6982.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6982.872218750001,"end":6985.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6986.2303437499995,"end":6993.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6994.60034375,"end":7009.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7009.41659375,"end":7009.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7009.4334687499995,"end":7009.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7009.770968750001,"end":7009.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7009.8553437499995,"end":7009.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7009.93971875,"end":7009.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7009.99034375,"end":7010.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7010.091593749999,"end":7010.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7010.1590937500005,"end":7010.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7012.015343750001,"end":7014.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7015.677218750001,"end":7016.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7017.314093750001,"end":7018.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7019.74409375,"end":7033.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7034.155343750001,"end":7040.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7037.26034375,"end":7037.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7037.6990937499995,"end":7037.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7040.55096875,"end":7042.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7042.964093750001,"end":7065.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7065.72846875,"end":7065.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7065.745343750001,"end":7076.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7077.270968750001,"end":7103.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7077.456593750001,"end":7078.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7079.3465937500005,"end":7081.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7104.76034375,"end":7106.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7107.3759687500005,"end":7110.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7110.61596875,"end":7110.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7111.155968750001,"end":7116.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7116.48846875,"end":7135.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7135.97909375,"end":7139.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7139.03346875,"end":7155.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7156.161593750001,"end":7160.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7161.52784375,"end":7164.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7164.734093750001,"end":7165.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7166.2528437500005,"end":7166.657843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7169.8134687500005,"end":7169.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7169.96534375,"end":7172.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7174.116593750001,"end":7174.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7176.76596875,"end":7177.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7184.02221875,"end":7191.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7198.534718750001,"end":7200.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7200.829718750001,"end":7201.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7207.74846875,"end":7223.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7224.62346875,"end":7238.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7238.62971875,"end":7272.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7272.970343750001,"end":7274.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7274.8603437500005,"end":7278.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7279.534718750001,"end":7291.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7292.0897187499995,"end":7319.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7320.3553437499995,"end":7358.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7322.39721875,"end":7322.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7333.88909375,"end":7334.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7350.91596875,"end":7351.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7357.311593750001,"end":7391.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7383.58596875,"end":7385.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7392.00659375,"end":7394.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7394.419718749999,"end":7413.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7412.897843750001,"end":7416.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7414.214093750001,"end":7415.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7416.07034375,"end":7430.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7430.802218750001,"end":7440.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7440.30284375,"end":7445.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7443.86346875,"end":7450.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7448.36909375,"end":7448.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7448.92596875,"end":7456.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7456.435343749999,"end":7459.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7459.60784375,"end":7528.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7529.53784375,"end":7532.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7532.06909375,"end":7536.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7532.49096875,"end":7535.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7535.03909375,"end":7535.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7536.591593749999,"end":7543.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7543.03784375,"end":7556.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7547.03721875,"end":7547.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7547.96534375,"end":7548.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7549.450343750001,"end":7550.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7550.81721875,"end":7550.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7557.11159375,"end":7665.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7667.659718750001,"end":7678.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7678.08846875,"end":7682.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7683.505343750001,"end":7684.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7684.61909375,"end":7797.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7797.58034375,"end":7801.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7802.1365937499995,"end":7814.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7814.286593750001,"end":7863.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7819.7372187500005,"end":7820.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7862.717843750001,"end":7862.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7863.038468750001,"end":7863.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7863.274718750001,"end":7867.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7867.98284375,"end":7868.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7868.0165937500005,"end":7884.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7885.870343750001,"end":7900.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7901.81721875,"end":7902.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7903.015343750001,"end":7904.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7905.66471875,"end":7906.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7907.858468750001,"end":7910.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7911.14909375,"end":7912.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7913.1572187500005,"end":7916.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7917.173468750001,"end":7917.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7918.28721875,"end":7919.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7920.919718749999,"end":7921.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7923.180968750001,"end":7924.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7925.610968750001,"end":7926.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7929.67784375,"end":7930.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7931.82096875,"end":7933.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7933.8290937500005,"end":7934.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7936.83284375,"end":7937.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7938.081593750001,"end":7948.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7938.739718750001,"end":7939.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7939.532843750001,"end":7939.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7940.78159375,"end":7943.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7944.49409375,"end":7945.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7948.03784375,"end":7962.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7948.1728437500005,"end":7949.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7949.8603437500005,"end":7950.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7958.567843750001,"end":7958.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7958.60159375,"end":7959.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7962.95534375,"end":7966.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7967.140343750001,"end":7968.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7970.700968749999,"end":7971.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7974.835343750001,"end":7975.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7974.86909375,"end":7980.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7980.977843750001,"end":7982.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7981.062218750001,"end":7981.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7983.72846875,"end":7986.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7987.27221875,"end":7992.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7992.840968750001,"end":8011.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8011.94346875,"end":8014.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8012.483468750001,"end":8012.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8013.310343749999,"end":8020.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8019.99284375,"end":8021.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8021.8153437500005,"end":8022.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8022.085343750001,"end":8028.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8023.80659375,"end":8025.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8028.092843750001,"end":8037.829718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8029.5272187499995,"end":8029.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8037.357218750001,"end":8076.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8038.825343750001,"end":8041.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8078.1103437500005,"end":8079.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8080.202843750001,"end":8082.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8086.530968750001,"end":8086.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8086.85159375,"end":8088.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8090.057843750001,"end":8093.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8707.31159375,"end":8709.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8710.61909375,"end":8712.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8717.31846875,"end":8720.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8725.92471875,"end":8726.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8727.19034375,"end":8738.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8738.93534375,"end":8743.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8744.74034375,"end":8762.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8763.15096875,"end":8769.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8770.238468750002,"end":8781.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8782.23659375,"end":8785.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8785.223468750002,"end":8802.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8802.65534375,"end":8804.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8804.79846875,"end":8805.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8805.777218750001,"end":8828.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8829.28409375,"end":8829.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8830.48221875,"end":8843.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8844.015968750002,"end":8857.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8858.84909375,"end":8864.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8865.24471875,"end":8891.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8892.261593750001,"end":8892.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8893.324718750002,"end":8902.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8904.242843750002,"end":8932.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8932.94721875,"end":8939.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8940.96284375,"end":8969.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8969.38034375,"end":8970.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8970.93284375,"end":8984.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8974.66221875,"end":8975.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8984.770343750002,"end":8986.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8987.79096875,"end":8990.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8990.524718750003,"end":8993.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8992.43159375,"end":8993.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8993.49471875,"end":8997.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8997.696593750003,"end":8997.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8997.91596875,"end":8998.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8998.03409375,"end":9015.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9016.07346875,"end":9029.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9030.83909375,"end":9047.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9048.55784375,"end":9094.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9094.84596875,"end":9101.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9101.680343750002,"end":9104.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9105.274718750003,"end":9122.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9123.938468750002,"end":9133.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9133.13534375,"end":9155.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9157.367843750002,"end":9157.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9157.789718750002,"end":9157.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9158.160968750002,"end":9161.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9161.215343750002,"end":9161.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9162.71721875,"end":9162.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9163.25721875,"end":9164.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9164.97846875,"end":9165.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9165.012218750002,"end":9193.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9178.47846875,"end":9179.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9191.92784375,"end":9192.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9192.61971875,"end":9192.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9192.687218750001,"end":9193.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9195.20159375,"end":9201.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9201.985343750002,"end":9205.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9206.085968750001,"end":9207.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9207.419093750003,"end":9207.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9207.452843750001,"end":9207.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9208.937843750002,"end":9210.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9211.06409375,"end":9225.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9225.340343750002,"end":9248.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9248.50971875,"end":9249.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9249.25221875,"end":9249.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9250.34909375,"end":9254.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9253.69034375,"end":9267.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9267.949718750002,"end":9268.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9267.98346875,"end":9272.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9273.67034375,"end":9275.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9275.15534375,"end":9275.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9276.45471875,"end":9298.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9299.269718750002,"end":9310.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9311.571593750003,"end":9319.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9319.941593750002,"end":9339.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9327.13034375,"end":9327.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9341.00159375,"end":9346.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9346.92471875,"end":9347.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9348.24096875,"end":9351.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9351.480968750002,"end":9352.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9351.51471875,"end":9351.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9353.117843750002,"end":9355.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9355.581593750001,"end":9392.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9392.79096875,"end":9398.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9399.23721875,"end":9408.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9402.747218750003,"end":9403.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9406.206593750001,"end":9410.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9411.218468750001,"end":9414.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9414.390968750002,"end":9425.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9414.762218750002,"end":9414.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9426.06846875,"end":9430.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9430.422218750002,"end":9433.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9433.45971875,"end":9438.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9435.88971875,"end":9437.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9437.77971875,"end":9440.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9440.88471875,"end":9447.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9441.762218750002,"end":9442.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9449.27159375,"end":9458.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9459.160343750002,"end":9469.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9471.10784375,"end":9490.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9491.10471875,"end":9516.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9509.17784375,"end":9509.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9515.23596875,"end":9524.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9516.062843750002,"end":9516.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9524.53409375,"end":9527.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9528.01034375,"end":9528.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9528.33096875,"end":9549.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9533.84909375,"end":9534.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9539.519093750001,"end":9539.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9545.93159375,"end":9546.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9549.00284375,"end":9552.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9549.20534375,"end":9549.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9553.761593750001,"end":9555.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9556.17471875,"end":9557.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9566.72159375,"end":9568.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9575.378468750001,"end":9577.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9577.825343750003,"end":9577.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9577.977218750002,"end":9578.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9585.63846875,"end":9586.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9586.53284375,"end":9587.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9587.81534375,"end":9697.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9699.86534375,"end":9704.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9701.19846875,"end":9701.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9704.65784375,"end":9706.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9706.699718750002,"end":9708.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9706.800968750002,"end":9707.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9708.31971875,"end":9761.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9717.80346875,"end":9718.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9761.813468750002,"end":9786.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9787.058468750001,"end":9794.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9797.63909375,"end":9800.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9800.524718750003,"end":9808.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9808.86096875,"end":9815.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9815.273468750001,"end":9820.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9820.20096875,"end":9821.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9821.922218750002,"end":9856.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9856.785968750002,"end":9861.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9861.71346875,"end":9870.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9869.594093750002,"end":9870.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9870.57284375,"end":9882.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9884.49471875,"end":9898.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9897.387218750002,"end":9954.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9954.77909375,"end":9959.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9959.655968750001,"end":9965.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9965.477843750003,"end":9985.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9984.79971875,"end":9998.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9991.43159375,"end":9991.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9991.49909375,"end":9991.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9992.359718750002,"end":9992.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9992.44409375,"end":9992.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9992.680343750002,"end":9992.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9992.730968750002,"end":9992.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9993.000968750002,"end":9993.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9999.109718750002,"end":10000.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10000.81409375,"end":10010.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10009.605968750002,"end":10012.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10012.019093750001,"end":10013.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10013.132843750001,"end":10013.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10013.75721875,"end":10121.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10121.976593750001,"end":10129.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10129.90784375,"end":10130.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10131.375968750002,"end":10137.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10138.125968750002,"end":10159.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10159.540343750003,"end":10177.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10167.87659375,"end":10169.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10171.67346875,"end":10171.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10173.41159375,"end":10174.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10176.78659375,"end":10220.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10177.69784375,"end":10179.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10186.40534375,"end":10186.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10187.72159375,"end":10189.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10199.770343750002,"end":10199.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10199.972843750002,"end":10201.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10221.40409375,"end":10224.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10224.542843750001,"end":10226.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10226.95596875,"end":10228.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10228.94721875,"end":10281.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10280.027843750002,"end":10323.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10293.56159375,"end":10293.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10293.64596875,"end":10293.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10324.03784375,"end":10327.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10327.952843750001,"end":10336.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10336.96409375,"end":10354.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10354.649093750002,"end":10364.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10365.837218750003,"end":10374.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10374.780968750001,"end":10375.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10376.13096875,"end":10392.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10392.33096875,"end":10400.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10400.684093750002,"end":10406.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10406.640968750002,"end":10490.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10491.50534375,"end":10492.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10492.93971875,"end":10496.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10496.73659375,"end":10508.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10508.12721875,"end":10532.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10511.097218750001,"end":10511.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10526.06534375,"end":10526.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10527.63471875,"end":10528.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10531.785968750002,"end":10542.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10542.906593750002,"end":10555.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10554.246593750002,"end":10556.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10555.731593750003,"end":10556.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10556.37284375,"end":10567.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10567.03784375,"end":10568.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10568.067218750002,"end":10568.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10568.15159375,"end":10569.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10568.320343750001,"end":10568.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10568.337218750003,"end":10568.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10568.40471875,"end":10568.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10568.539718750002,"end":10568.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10568.590343750002,"end":10569.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10569.99096875,"end":10572.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10588.215968750003,"end":10589.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10594.223468750002,"end":10596.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10597.379093750002,"end":10597.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10598.172218750002,"end":10599.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10604.68596875,"end":10605.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10605.242843750002,"end":10616.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10612.161593750003,"end":10615.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10616.59971875,"end":10617.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10617.578468750002,"end":10635.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10635.837218750003,"end":10697.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10698.679718750001,"end":10799.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10799.828468750002,"end":10924.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10925.699093750001,"end":10972.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10972.949093750001,"end":11033.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11034.20534375,"end":11059.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11060.344718750002,"end":11105.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11108.472218750001,"end":11121.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11121.43221875,"end":11121.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11121.499718750001,"end":11204.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11204.27159375,"end":11227.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11205.351593750001,"end":11205.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11227.390343750001,"end":11259.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11260.02659375,"end":11272.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11272.058468750001,"end":11314.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11308.20471875,"end":11308.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11315.66346875,"end":11316.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11317.28346875,"end":11318.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11318.954093750002,"end":11319.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11319.527843750002,"end":11320.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11320.894718750002,"end":11321.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11321.215343750002,"end":11321.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11332.25159375,"end":11334.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11348.97471875,"end":11351.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11351.742218750001,"end":11352.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11352.231593750003,"end":11353.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11359.065968750001,"end":11359.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11359.656593750002,"end":11413.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11385.82971875,"end":11386.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11414.297843750002,"end":11426.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11426.785343750002,"end":11437.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11437.58534375,"end":11443.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11443.660343750002,"end":11469.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11470.27221875,"end":11482.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11483.45159375,"end":11494.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11494.656593750002,"end":11494.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11494.977218750002,"end":11517.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11518.484093750001,"end":11544.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11543.67846875,"end":11559.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11560.13159375,"end":11571.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11571.72471875,"end":11578.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11578.727843750003,"end":11585.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11584.414718750002,"end":11587.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11587.637843750003,"end":11604.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11605.390343750001,"end":11606.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11606.58846875,"end":11622.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11622.602843750003,"end":11623.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11622.653468750003,"end":11623.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11623.109093750001,"end":11623.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11623.41284375,"end":11698.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11689.42784375,"end":11689.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11689.680968750003,"end":11689.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11689.96784375,"end":11691.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11691.030968750001,"end":11692.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11692.44846875,"end":11692.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11692.81971875,"end":11692.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11699.62034375,"end":11703.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11704.19346875,"end":11706.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11706.589718750001,"end":11706.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11706.87659375,"end":11752.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11754.14346875,"end":11760.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11761.56846875,"end":11777.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11777.852843750003,"end":11828.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11828.86596875,"end":11845.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11845.15034375,"end":11913.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11913.96659375,"end":11942.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11942.82284375,"end":11956.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11956.305968750003,"end":11964.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11966.71784375,"end":11967.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11967.797843750002,"end":11972.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11972.961593750002,"end":11975.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11976.20159375,"end":12024.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12024.07596875,"end":12078.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12078.46409375,"end":12098.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12100.75596875,"end":12102.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12102.88221875,"end":12103.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12114.930968750003,"end":12116.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12124.617218750001,"end":12126.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12126.895343750002,"end":12128.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12134.72534375,"end":12135.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12135.19784375,"end":12139.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12139.88909375,"end":12143.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12143.88846875,"end":12145.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12145.74471875,"end":12156.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12147.499718750001,"end":12147.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12147.53346875,"end":12147.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12147.567218750002,"end":12147.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12156.359093750001,"end":12160.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12160.98284375,"end":12191.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12192.15096875,"end":12195.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12196.31909375,"end":12208.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12208.13159375,"end":12209.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12210.12284375,"end":12228.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12229.039718750002,"end":12251.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12251.230343750001,"end":12280.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12280.677218750003,"end":12286.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12287.24159375,"end":12291.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12292.50659375,"end":12296.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12297.012218750002,"end":12297.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12297.77159375,"end":12299.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12299.50971875,"end":12301.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12300.03284375,"end":12301.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12301.16346875,"end":12305.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12305.78721875,"end":12308.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12309.398468750001,"end":12315.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12313.414718750002,"end":12314.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12315.96284375,"end":12338.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12317.903468750003,"end":12318.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12325.78409375,"end":12325.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12325.800968750002,"end":12325.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12338.64284375,"end":12356.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12339.824093750001,"end":12340.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12348.29534375,"end":12348.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12356.597843750002,"end":12356.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12356.63159375,"end":12356.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12356.85096875,"end":12379.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12364.91721875,"end":12365.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12367.65096875,"end":12369.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12379.868468750003,"end":12385.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12385.84221875,"end":12387.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12387.31034375,"end":12387.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12387.63096875,"end":12387.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12387.715343750002,"end":12387.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12388.05284375,"end":12393.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12393.63846875,"end":12512.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12512.472218750001,"end":12514.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12514.71659375,"end":12606.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12607.242218750001,"end":12610.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12611.427218750003,"end":12631.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12623.340968750003,"end":12623.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12632.36909375,"end":12640.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12636.621593750002,"end":12637.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12640.890968750002,"end":12656.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12645.76784375,"end":12645.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12645.81846875,"end":12645.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12656.68596875,"end":12657.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12658.10346875,"end":12661.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12661.95096875,"end":12664.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12665.66346875,"end":12682.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12669.645968750003,"end":12669.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12681.25596875,"end":12685.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12684.141593750002,"end":12686.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12686.89221875,"end":12692.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12692.849093750003,"end":12699.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12699.227843750003,"end":12702.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12702.36659375,"end":12712.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12713.520968750003,"end":12713.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12714.617843750002,"end":12718.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12719.22471875,"end":12719.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12720.405968750001,"end":12733.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12727.25721875,"end":12727.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12728.87721875,"end":12730.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12732.876593750003,"end":12744.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12734.800343750001,"end":12738.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12744.503468750001,"end":12760.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12761.699093750001,"end":12763.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12763.909718750001,"end":12766.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12766.79534375,"end":12767.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12768.16221875,"end":12769.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12770.22096875,"end":12784.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12784.83471875,"end":12785.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12785.67846875,"end":12787.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12788.699093750001,"end":12791.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12791.53409375,"end":12793.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12794.11596875,"end":12796.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12797.895968750003,"end":12811.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12812.20596875,"end":12847.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12847.52534375,"end":12860.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12861.531593750002,"end":12863.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12863.45534375,"end":12870.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12871.302218750003,"end":12874.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12874.91346875,"end":12876.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12876.68534375,"end":12886.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12886.995968750001,"end":12888.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12888.83534375,"end":12890.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12891.079718750003,"end":12895.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12896.125343750002,"end":12899.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12898.555343750002,"end":12898.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12899.11221875,"end":12904.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12905.37284375,"end":12907.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12908.190968750001,"end":12916.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12918.923468750003,"end":12957.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12958.42784375,"end":12964.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12964.722218750001,"end":13017.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13018.047218750002,"end":13022.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13023.14346875,"end":13024.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13025.25284375,"end":13030.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13030.855343750001,"end":13038.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13038.972218750001,"end":13040.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13040.136593750001,"end":13045.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13045.92471875,"end":13063.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13064.234093750001,"end":13069.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13070.157218750002,"end":13085.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13085.766593750002,"end":13090.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13091.38596875,"end":13095.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13095.65534375,"end":13185.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13185.86909375,"end":13189.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13188.77159375,"end":13192.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13196.095343750003,"end":13206.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13206.675968750002,"end":13207.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13208.70096875,"end":13215.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13216.88534375,"end":13219.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13220.46284375,"end":13221.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13227.769718750002,"end":13228.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13228.59659375,"end":13247.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13247.42909375,"end":13256.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13258.38096875,"end":13259.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13260.574718750002,"end":13263.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13263.477218750002,"end":13273.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13273.551593750002,"end":13280.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13280.554718750001,"end":13320.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13320.784718750001,"end":13372.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13373.519093750001,"end":13380.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13380.72471875,"end":13385.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13385.820968750002,"end":13387.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13387.54221875,"end":13393.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13394.12346875,"end":13398.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13398.899093750002,"end":13400.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13401.14346875,"end":13401.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13402.847843750002,"end":13408.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13409.024093750002,"end":13419.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13419.824093750001,"end":13420.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13420.70159375,"end":13447.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13448.562218750001,"end":13452.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13452.105968750002,"end":13462.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13461.82596875,"end":13465.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13465.335968750001,"end":13469.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13468.727843750003,"end":13476.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13476.945968750002,"end":13481.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13481.08034375,"end":13484.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13484.03346875,"end":13488.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13488.67409375,"end":13493.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13493.449718750002,"end":13500.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13500.081593750001,"end":13507.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13506.24096875,"end":13508.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13508.24909375,"end":13510.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13509.81846875,"end":13512.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13511.590343750002,"end":13513.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13512.754718750002,"end":13535.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13518.660968750002,"end":13519.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13519.11659375,"end":13519.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13519.94346875,"end":13520.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13535.839718750001,"end":13547.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13545.77909375,"end":13560.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13547.399093750002,"end":13547.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13553.59221875,"end":13553.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13558.92471875,"end":13559.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13561.13534375,"end":13562.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13563.93659375,"end":13565.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13574.129093750002,"end":13576.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13584.675968750002,"end":13585.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13585.958468750003,"end":13588.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13589.45159375,"end":13590.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13596.690968750001,"end":13597.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13597.956593750001,"end":13598.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13599.509093750003,"end":13601.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13601.80409375,"end":13603.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13604.200343750003,"end":13611.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13612.23284375,"end":13627.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13627.96034375,"end":13634.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13634.777843750002,"end":13658.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13659.364718750003,"end":13707.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13707.930968750003,"end":13726.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13729.767218750003,"end":13732.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13729.83471875,"end":13730.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13733.31096875,"end":13748.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13749.055343750002,"end":13750.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13750.320968750002,"end":13752.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13751.50221875,"end":13752.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13752.86909375,"end":13757.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13757.62784375,"end":13789.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13776.02159375,"end":13776.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13789.656593750002,"end":13793.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13793.942843750003,"end":13813.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13813.58534375,"end":13851.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13838.003468750001,"end":13838.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13851.21659375,"end":13851.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13852.212218750003,"end":13910.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13910.903468750003,"end":13912.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13912.590968750003,"end":13915.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13916.18534375,"end":13926.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13926.242843750002,"end":13942.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13943.421593750001,"end":13952.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13953.15846875,"end":13971.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13972.68284375,"end":13985.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13984.664093750001,"end":13988.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13988.17409375,"end":13992.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13992.66284375,"end":13994.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13995.278468750003,"end":14013.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14005.52159375,"end":14006.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14013.925343750001,"end":14018.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14019.359093750001,"end":14022.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14023.476593750001,"end":14024.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14023.72971875,"end":14024.657843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14024.94471875,"end":14047.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14045.093468750001,"end":14046.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14047.28721875,"end":14169.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14168.58471875,"end":14168.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14169.175343750001,"end":14169.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14169.20909375,"end":14169.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14169.27659375,"end":14169.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14169.31034375,"end":14169.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14169.495968750001,"end":14169.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14170.086593750002,"end":14176.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14176.347218750001,"end":14193.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14194.082843750002,"end":14198.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14198.605343750001,"end":14200.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14200.832843750002,"end":14211.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14212.83096875,"end":14215.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14213.13471875,"end":14213.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14214.87284375,"end":14218.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14219.378468750001,"end":14222.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14219.47971875,"end":14219.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14222.83784375,"end":14227.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14227.934093750002,"end":14228.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14228.32221875,"end":14240.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14239.442843750003,"end":14246.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14247.120968750001,"end":14281.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14259.422843750002,"end":14259.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14281.37721875,"end":14282.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14283.149093750002,"end":14294.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14294.25284375,"end":14299.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14294.50596875,"end":14294.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14299.905968750001,"end":14300.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14300.05784375,"end":14300.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14300.715968750003,"end":14341.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14341.620968750001,"end":14343.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14343.527843750002,"end":14353.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14353.821593750003,"end":14361.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14356.403468750003,"end":14357.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14357.550968750002,"end":14357.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14361.398468750001,"end":14362.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14362.579718750003,"end":14392.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14392.22909375,"end":14405.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14403.82221875,"end":14413.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14412.293468750002,"end":14413.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14413.390343750001,"end":14414.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14414.16659375,"end":14415.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14415.43221875,"end":14416.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14416.95096875,"end":14418.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14419.27971875,"end":14421.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14426.384093750003,"end":14426.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14427.49784375,"end":14437.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14439.782843750003,"end":14505.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14497.461593750002,"end":14497.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14506.371593750002,"end":14509.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14509.03784375,"end":14519.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14519.449718750002,"end":14520.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14520.445343750001,"end":14524.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14524.96784375,"end":14525.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14525.676593750002,"end":14525.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14525.69346875,"end":14530.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14532.949718750002,"end":14560.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14561.063468750002,"end":14561.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14561.72159375,"end":14576.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14577.499718750001,"end":14578.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14578.96784375,"end":14579.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14579.457218750002,"end":14579.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14579.69346875,"end":14579.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14579.76096875,"end":14583.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14585.144093750001,"end":14586.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14587.55721875,"end":14590.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14590.45971875,"end":14594.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14599.57221875,"end":14600.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14601.360968750003,"end":14602.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14608.245968750001,"end":14610.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14610.270968750003,"end":14622.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14622.876593750003,"end":14626.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14626.53846875,"end":14627.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14626.69034375,"end":14626.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14627.129093750002,"end":14627.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14627.702843750001,"end":14630.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14631.297218750002,"end":14640.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14641.202843750001,"end":14643.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14641.472843750002,"end":14641.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14643.49784375,"end":14663.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14665.13159375,"end":14668.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14669.24909375,"end":14673.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14673.974093750003,"end":14675.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14676.10034375,"end":14677.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14678.04096875,"end":14679.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14679.99846875,"end":14680.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14681.027843750002,"end":14688.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14688.992843750002,"end":14691.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14691.000968750002,"end":14691.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14691.220343750003,"end":14694.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14694.71346875,"end":14723.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14724.801593750002,"end":14725.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14725.88159375,"end":14726.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14726.961593750002,"end":14736.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14736.968468750001,"end":14737.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14737.019093750001,"end":14737.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14737.559093750002,"end":14737.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14737.96409375,"end":14738.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14738.58846875,"end":14738.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14738.605343750001,"end":14749.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14750.586593750002,"end":14778.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14777.282843750003,"end":14777.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14778.801593750002,"end":14779.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14779.915343750003,"end":14783.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14783.864093750002,"end":14784.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14783.89784375,"end":14789.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14790.512843750003,"end":14796.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14796.97596875,"end":14802.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14802.359093750001,"end":14803.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14804.046593750001,"end":14809.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14810.52659375,"end":14816.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14816.601593750001,"end":14816.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14816.652218750001,"end":14816.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14816.770343750002,"end":14838.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14838.37034375,"end":14838.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14839.062218750001,"end":14850.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14850.992843750002,"end":14859.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14858.519093750001,"end":14858.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14859.970343750003,"end":14863.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14863.51409375,"end":14863.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14863.63221875,"end":14875.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14870.38221875,"end":14871.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14876.153468750003,"end":14894.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14892.555968750003,"end":14892.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14894.175968750002,"end":14894.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14894.378468750001,"end":14894.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14894.614718750003,"end":14894.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14894.68221875,"end":14894.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14894.749718750001,"end":14894.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14895.47534375,"end":14915.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14915.77596875,"end":14924.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14924.972843750002,"end":14925.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14925.74909375,"end":14945.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14943.687218750001,"end":14945.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14945.560343750003,"end":14946.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14945.695343750001,"end":14947.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14948.192843750003,"end":14952.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14956.07346875,"end":14960.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14966.24909375,"end":14968.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14969.13471875,"end":14970.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14975.918468750002,"end":14977.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14978.972843750002,"end":14979.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14980.54221875,"end":14984.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14985.267218750003,"end":14985.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14986.566593750002,"end":14988.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14988.81096875,"end":14991.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14991.848468750002,"end":14991.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14991.86534375,"end":14993.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14994.02534375,"end":14995.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14995.476593750001,"end":15002.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15003.25596875,"end":15011.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15008.21721875,"end":15009.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15011.035343750002,"end":15011.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15011.136593750001,"end":15013.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15015.203468750002,"end":15019.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15019.60784375,"end":15020.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15021.04221875,"end":15021.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15022.35846875,"end":15025.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15025.14284375,"end":15027.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15027.437843750002,"end":15028.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15028.770968750003,"end":15030.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15030.57659375,"end":15035.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15035.892218750003,"end":15036.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15036.989093750002,"end":15041.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15042.304718750001,"end":15043.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15044.44784375,"end":15045.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15045.71346875,"end":15047.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15047.586593750002,"end":15049.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15050.20221875,"end":15056.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15057.188468750002,"end":15061.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15062.402843750002,"end":15063.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15065.052218750003,"end":15065.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15066.18284375,"end":15068.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15068.460968750001,"end":15070.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15070.620968750001,"end":15073.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15073.75971875,"end":15075.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15076.45971875,"end":15078.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15079.125968750002,"end":15082.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15083.496593750002,"end":15087.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15088.137218750002,"end":15089.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15089.75721875,"end":15091.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15091.74846875,"end":15093.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15093.773468750001,"end":15102.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15102.852218750002,"end":15103.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15104.55659375,"end":15108.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15108.89346875,"end":15115.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15115.778468750003,"end":15122.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15123.08534375,"end":15131.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15131.52284375,"end":15134.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15134.644718750002,"end":15136.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15137.125343750002,"end":15142.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15142.37346875,"end":15147.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15147.65534375,"end":15148.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15149.089718750001,"end":15151.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15151.55346875,"end":15153.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15153.780968750001,"end":15157.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15157.594718750002,"end":15164.564093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15165.357218750003,"end":15184.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15184.797218750002,"end":15199.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15200.187218750001,"end":15208.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15208.995968750001,"end":15223.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15223.89659375,"end":15235.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15235.82721875,"end":15238.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15235.92846875,"end":15236.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15236.99159375,"end":15237.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15238.645343750002,"end":15239.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15239.03346875,"end":15241.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15241.547843750002,"end":15241.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15241.581593750001,"end":15243.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15244.19721875,"end":15249.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15249.732218750003,"end":15259.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15260.312843750002,"end":15261.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15261.966593750003,"end":15264.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15264.649718750003,"end":15270.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15270.690968750001,"end":15271.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15272.496593750002,"end":15273.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15273.72846875,"end":15300.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15275.43284375,"end":15276.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15278.149718750003,"end":15278.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15280.512218750002,"end":15281.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15283.566593750002,"end":15283.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15289.35471875,"end":15291.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15300.036593750003,"end":15301.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15301.673468750003,"end":15309.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15309.38534375,"end":15310.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15310.97159375,"end":15313.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15314.34659375,"end":15318.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15318.83534375,"end":15322.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15323.020343750002,"end":15325.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15326.46284375,"end":15332.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15332.655968750001,"end":15333.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15334.461593750002,"end":15335.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15335.625968750002,"end":15336.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15337.667843750001,"end":15342.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15342.831593750001,"end":15344.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15344.890343750001,"end":15347.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15347.691593750002,"end":15353.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15353.969093750002,"end":15358.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15358.187843750002,"end":15363.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15364.718468750001,"end":15375.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15373.493468750003,"end":15376.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15376.56471875,"end":15392.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15379.922843750002,"end":15381.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15381.74534375,"end":15381.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15391.532843750003,"end":15404.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15392.69721875,"end":15393.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15393.777218750001,"end":15394.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15400.594718750002,"end":15400.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15401.691593750002,"end":15401.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15401.742218750001,"end":15408.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15408.00284375,"end":15411.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15408.812843750002,"end":15409.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15409.16721875,"end":15409.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15410.68596875,"end":15410.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15410.702843750001,"end":15411.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15411.023468750001,"end":15411.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15411.175343750001,"end":15414.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15412.204718750003,"end":15412.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15416.81159375,"end":15418.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15419.106593750003,"end":15419.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15421.890968750002,"end":15423.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15428.52284375,"end":15431.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15433.56846875,"end":15434.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15436.251593750003,"end":15437.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15442.883468750002,"end":15443.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15443.457218750002,"end":15501.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15503.211593750002,"end":15505.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15506.012843750003,"end":15512.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15513.84284375,"end":15532.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15520.84596875,"end":15520.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15533.063468750002,"end":15541.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15541.956593750001,"end":15553.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15551.81159375,"end":15611.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15612.848468750002,"end":15634.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15636.844718750002,"end":15638.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15639.224093750003,"end":15640.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15640.742843750002,"end":15642.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15642.66659375,"end":15652.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15652.335968750001,"end":15655.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15655.94721875,"end":15669.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15668.82284375,"end":15674.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15674.762843750003,"end":15678.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15677.597843750002,"end":15705.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15705.644093750001,"end":15710.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15710.43659375,"end":15742.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15742.988468750002,"end":15745.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15746.81909375,"end":15749.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15750.04221875,"end":15756.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15756.89346875,"end":15760.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15760.352843750003,"end":15764.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15764.470343750003,"end":15764.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15764.706593750001,"end":15764.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15764.774093750002,"end":15771.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15764.79096875,"end":15764.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15764.80784375,"end":15764.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15764.841593750003,"end":15766.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15771.794093750003,"end":15785.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15786.57659375,"end":15787.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15788.145968750003,"end":15792.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15793.039718750002,"end":15800.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15800.802218750003,"end":15808.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15803.40096875,"end":15806.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15808.699718750002,"end":15834.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15815.888468750003,"end":15816.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15816.074093750001,"end":15816.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15834.36659375,"end":15839.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15839.63159375,"end":15844.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15839.665343750003,"end":15842.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15842.53409375,"end":15842.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15843.20909375,"end":15843.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15844.17096875,"end":15845.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15846.06096875,"end":15877.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15848.676593750002,"end":15849.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15855.679718750001,"end":15856.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15878.02221875,"end":15882.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15883.523468750001,"end":15885.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15886.45971875,"end":15887.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15886.695968750002,"end":15888.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15888.164093750001,"end":15899.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15890.239718750003,"end":15890.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15896.90534375,"end":15923.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15924.074093750001,"end":15924.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15925.812218750001,"end":15926.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15926.470343750003,"end":15930.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15931.836593750002,"end":15934.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15935.24534375,"end":15936.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15937.641593750002,"end":15939.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15939.81846875,"end":15942.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15943.14284375,"end":15943.767218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15944.425343750001,"end":15945.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15946.83846875,"end":15948.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15948.89721875,"end":15950.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15952.187843750002,"end":15960.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15960.23721875,"end":15960.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15965.02971875,"end":15966.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15966.919718750003,"end":15969.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15970.075343750003,"end":15970.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15971.138468750003,"end":15972.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15977.31471875,"end":15984.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15984.925343750001,"end":15985.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15986.24159375,"end":15991.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15991.439093750003,"end":15992.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15993.19409375,"end":16003.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16003.977218750002,"end":16007.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16007.774093750002,"end":16009.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16010.44034375,"end":16013.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16013.22471875,"end":16014.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16016.71784375,"end":16022.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16025.239718750003,"end":16025.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16026.859718750002,"end":16026.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16026.876593750003,"end":16026.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16026.94409375,"end":16027.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16029.509093750003,"end":16049.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16045.945343750001,"end":16046.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16049.97846875,"end":16050.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16050.029093750003,"end":16050.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16050.974093750003,"end":16051.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16051.024718750003,"end":16061.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16051.058468750001,"end":16051.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16052.712218750003,"end":16055.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16057.707218750002,"end":16057.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16061.976593750001,"end":16064.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16063.934093750002,"end":16064.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16064.96346875,"end":16066.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16067.34284375,"end":16070.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16069.45221875,"end":16069.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16070.97096875,"end":16076.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16076.843468750001,"end":16079.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16079.52659375,"end":16083.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16079.543468750002,"end":16080.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16083.407843750003,"end":16089.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16089.735968750003,"end":16093.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16094.29221875,"end":16095.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16094.579093750002,"end":16094.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16096.570343750001,"end":16099.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16098.19034375,"end":16099.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16099.101593750001,"end":16099.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16099.540343750003,"end":16104.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16104.450968750003,"end":16118.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16119.13221875,"end":16133.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16121.157218750002,"end":16121.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16133.020343750002,"end":16133.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16133.610968750003,"end":16138.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16138.84221875,"end":16164.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16142.082218750002,"end":16142.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16142.26784375,"end":16142.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16146.520343750002,"end":16146.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16165.04909375,"end":16167.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16167.985343750002,"end":16188.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16189.51784375,"end":16221.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16221.90096875,"end":16275.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16275.68159375,"end":16279.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16279.96784375,"end":16282.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16282.80284375,"end":16283.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16284.06846875,"end":16295.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16284.827843750001,"end":16285.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16295.864093750002,"end":16302.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16302.15846875,"end":16306.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16306.96784375,"end":16307.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16308.33471875,"end":16323.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16309.85346875,"end":16309.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16323.825968750003,"end":16327.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16326.340343750002,"end":16329.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16328.719718750002,"end":16356.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16357.17096875,"end":16370.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16371.02534375,"end":16402.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16383.934718750003,"end":16384.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16384.035968750002,"end":16384.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16402.96971875,"end":16410.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16409.905343749997,"end":16421.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16414.005968750003,"end":16414.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16420.38471875,"end":16428.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16424.350343750004,"end":16424.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16428.18096875,"end":16428.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16428.29909375,"end":16428.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16428.754718750002,"end":16428.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16428.80534375,"end":16431.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16428.872843750003,"end":16442.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16435.04909375,"end":16435.319093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16442.01846875,"end":16445.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16442.84534375,"end":16457.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16445.51159375,"end":16445.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16457.52659375,"end":16462.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16462.45409375,"end":16474.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16470.92534375,"end":16471.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16474.435343750003,"end":16474.452218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16474.51971875,"end":16474.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16474.60409375,"end":16476.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16475.160968750002,"end":16475.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16476.004718750002,"end":16476.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16476.949718750002,"end":16477.287218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16477.74284375,"end":16478.367218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16479.480968750002,"end":16479.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16480.59471875,"end":16483.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16484.32409375,"end":16484.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16485.23534375,"end":16486.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16486.349093750003,"end":16487.108468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16487.68221875,"end":16491.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16806.974093750003,"end":16813.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16813.26846875,"end":16813.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16815.79971875,"end":16821.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16823.41034375,"end":16825.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16826.44784375,"end":16826.717843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16827.156593749998,"end":16859.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16860.41721875,"end":16872.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16872.61784375,"end":16884.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16884.919718750003,"end":16888.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16889.796593749998,"end":16894.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16894.87596875,"end":16909.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16909.57409375,"end":16911.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16911.34596875,"end":16912.577843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16912.71284375,"end":16913.624093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16913.96159375,"end":16942.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16929.72284375,"end":16930.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16941.50159375,"end":16982.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16959.827843749998,"end":16960.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16970.93159375,"end":16971.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16982.72721875,"end":16991.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16991.687843749998,"end":17032.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17032.694093750004,"end":17034.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17034.820343749998,"end":17077.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17078.07096875,"end":17088.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17083.319093750004,"end":17084.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17086.84596875,"end":17098.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17098.067843750003,"end":17118.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17112.27659375,"end":17113.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17117.44034375,"end":17117.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17117.76096875,"end":17123.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17121.389093750004,"end":17122.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17122.418468750002,"end":17122.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17122.570343749998,"end":17122.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17122.958468750003,"end":17123.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17123.53221875,"end":17124.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17125.810343750003,"end":17128.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17128.71284375,"end":17131.210343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17142.297218749998,"end":17143.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17144.23784375,"end":17145.554093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17152.35471875,"end":17155.257218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17155.577843749998,"end":17173.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17173.31346875,"end":17175.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17174.747843750003,"end":17174.764718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17174.79846875,"end":17185.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17183.489093750002,"end":17225.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17190.50909375,"end":17191.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17191.200968750003,"end":17191.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17191.57221875,"end":17191.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17202.169718750003,"end":17202.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17205.20721875,"end":17205.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17205.224093750003,"end":17206.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17225.64284375,"end":17245.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17246.09534375,"end":17255.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17255.241593749997,"end":17265.889718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17266.075343750003,"end":17271.154718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17272.724093750003,"end":17277.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17273.95596875,"end":17274.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17277.989093750002,"end":17278.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17278.765343749998,"end":17281.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17282.07284375,"end":17282.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17283.01784375,"end":17286.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17286.29159375,"end":17291.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17292.265343749998,"end":17301.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17302.20471875,"end":17303.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17303.723468750002,"end":17308.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17308.66784375,"end":17349.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17311.958468750003,"end":17313.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17314.506593750004,"end":17316.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17330.50409375,"end":17331.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17331.02721875,"end":17332.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17333.52471875,"end":17333.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17333.54159375,"end":17333.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17350.11284375,"end":17360.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17361.40221875,"end":17386.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17387.30534375,"end":17389.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17390.07284375,"end":17390.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17390.984093749998,"end":17410.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17411.14971875,"end":17416.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17414.153468750003,"end":17414.288468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17416.53284375,"end":17434.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17435.027843750002,"end":17439.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17439.685343750003,"end":17444.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17445.287843750004,"end":17474.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17475.30846875,"end":17478.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17478.075968750003,"end":17478.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17478.396593750003,"end":17488.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17487.86346875,"end":17504.367218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17504.82284375,"end":17510.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17510.40846875,"end":17512.686593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17512.41659375,"end":17513.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17514.54284375,"end":17525.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17526.35534375,"end":17534.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17535.366593749997,"end":17550.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17552.08971875,"end":17552.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17552.59596875,"end":17557.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17554.94159375,"end":17558.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17558.046593749998,"end":17560.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17559.86909375,"end":17563.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17563.34534375,"end":17563.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17563.80096875,"end":17563.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17564.18909375,"end":17564.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17565.404093750003,"end":17570.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17571.124718749998,"end":17573.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17573.318468750003,"end":17575.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17575.47846875,"end":17575.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17575.59659375,"end":17580.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17580.574718750002,"end":17582.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17582.76846875,"end":17583.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17583.08909375,"end":17584.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17583.105968750002,"end":17583.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17583.156593749998,"end":17583.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17585.434718750003,"end":17594.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17594.969093749998,"end":17597.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17597.264093750004,"end":17606.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17608.06409375,"end":17610.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17610.342218750004,"end":17631.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17630.33909375,"end":17637.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17637.359093749998,"end":17639.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17637.59534375,"end":17637.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17640.16034375,"end":17642.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17643.265343749998,"end":17663.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17664.257843749998,"end":17674.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17674.990343750003,"end":17727.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17721.801593750002,"end":17722.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17722.054718749998,"end":17722.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17726.475968749997,"end":17740.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17734.72784375,"end":17735.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17739.672218749998,"end":17742.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17742.94596875,"end":17753.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17753.29034375,"end":17753.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17753.999093749997,"end":17784.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17759.97284375,"end":17760.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17767.63409375,"end":17767.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17767.97159375,"end":17767.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17784.576593750004,"end":17831.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17791.71471875,"end":17792.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17792.96346875,"end":17793.132218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17803.054718749998,"end":17803.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17828.974718750003,"end":17829.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17830.054718749998,"end":17830.797218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17831.37096875,"end":17832.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17832.012218750002,"end":17832.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17832.29909375,"end":17834.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17834.08784375,"end":17836.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17835.960968749998,"end":17837.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17838.22221875,"end":17839.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17842.052843750003,"end":17844.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17844.75284375,"end":17845.967843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17848.397843749997,"end":17851.249718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17852.04284375,"end":17853.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17854.64159375,"end":17856.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17856.818468750003,"end":17860.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17860.733468749997,"end":17861.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17862.77534375,"end":17864.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17865.576593750004,"end":17868.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17869.069718749997,"end":17870.757218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17871.499718749998,"end":17873.069093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17874.419093750003,"end":17878.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17888.357843750004,"end":17889.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17889.927218750003,"end":17891.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17897.757218749997,"end":17904.186593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17904.52409375,"end":17910.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17910.919718750003,"end":17935.607843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17935.911593750003,"end":17960.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17938.223468750002,"end":17938.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17938.42596875,"end":17938.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17961.038468749997,"end":17976.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17976.630968750003,"end":17978.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17979.179093749997,"end":17991.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17991.26159375,"end":17999.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18003.529718750004,"end":18005.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18005.622218750003,"end":18015.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18015.61221875,"end":18015.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18016.388468750003,"end":18018.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18018.76784375,"end":18020.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18020.742218749998,"end":18022.952843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18023.543468750002,"end":18026.327843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18026.78346875,"end":18031.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18031.94721875,"end":18033.702218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18034.05659375,"end":18036.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18037.617218749998,"end":18042.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18043.43909375,"end":18066.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18066.405968749998,"end":18085.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18085.356593750003,"end":18089.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18090.30096875,"end":18098.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18098.38409375,"end":18107.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18104.695343749998,"end":18105.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18107.68221875,"end":18109.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18110.12909375,"end":18126.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18126.86909375,"end":18133.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18134.091593750003,"end":18148.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18149.56596875,"end":18151.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18151.928468750004,"end":18152.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18153.24471875,"end":18155.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18155.65784375,"end":18163.420343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18164.19659375,"end":18166.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18167.04846875,"end":18170.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18171.739718750003,"end":18173.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18173.79846875,"end":18191.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18192.411593750003,"end":18209.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18194.58846875,"end":18194.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18200.730968750002,"end":18201.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18209.624093749997,"end":18209.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18209.87721875,"end":18214.163468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18214.41659375,"end":18234.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18234.97034375,"end":18234.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18234.98721875,"end":18237.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18235.08846875,"end":18236.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18236.05034375,"end":18237.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18237.73784375,"end":18248.335343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18248.132843749998,"end":18260.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18248.622218750003,"end":18248.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18254.207843750002,"end":18254.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18258.359093749998,"end":18266.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18266.74596875,"end":18273.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18273.445343749998,"end":18280.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18279.739718750003,"end":18280.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18280.701593750004,"end":18284.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18284.66721875,"end":18290.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18286.77659375,"end":18287.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18290.640968749998,"end":18291.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18291.73784375,"end":18293.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18292.699718750002,"end":18292.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18294.13409375,"end":18296.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18296.209718750004,"end":18297.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18299.044718750003,"end":18299.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18301.10346875,"end":18311.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18311.599718750003,"end":18330.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18331.47846875,"end":18337.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18338.920343750004,"end":18339.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18340.084718750004,"end":18340.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18340.13534375,"end":18340.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18340.25346875,"end":18340.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18340.32096875,"end":18340.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18340.43909375,"end":18340.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18340.506593750004,"end":18342.059093750002}],"whisperx":[{"start":654.124,"end":673.685,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":1453.646,"end":1481.843,"text":"好 報告委員會初席委員14人已足法定人數現在進行開會首先進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國1月5年1月8日上午9時1分至12時33分地點本院清賢樓101會議室初席委員林佩祥委員等15人列席委員"},{"start":1483.124,"end":1501.609,"text":"鄭天才等6人 內席人員 教育部常務司長朱俊章 率統有關人員 主席 劉昭吉委員 蘇斌報告事項 宣讀上次會議事錄決定 議事錄確定討論事項 審查委員徐欣穎等19人 拟據大學法第35條條文修正草案案等13案"},{"start":1505.422,"end":1517.622,"text":"僅進行尋答本次議程採綜合尋答由委員林佩祥等16人提出質詢軍經教育部常務次長朱進章及相關人員舉起答覆說明另由委員徐欣穎提出書面質詢決議"},{"start":1519.81,"end":1534.544,"text":"一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並看登公報三 對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關建樹與書面答覆四 大學法相關修正草案令定期繼續審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":1538.479,"end":1558.021,"text":"好 請問各位委員上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處因為現場的委員未達議決人數的三人那議事錄就暫不確定今天的議程是請教育部部長鄭英亮列席就高級中等學校以下"},{"start":1558.962,"end":1583.926,"text":"公餐與飲食教育的執行情形困難跟挑戰與因應的對策還有地方裁員補助的問題等進行專題報告並備質詢第二個主題是也是請教育部長來列席就新修正發布的高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法進行專題報告並備質詢"},{"start":1590.285,"end":1611.412,"text":"好那因為現在目前委員並沒有在那我們就現在來介紹與會的官員那包括的是教育部長鄭英耀歡迎謝謝那還有教育部的國民及學前教育署的副署長戴淑芬"},{"start":1614.008,"end":1639.694,"text":"好那也先跟大家講一下今天因為原來是學前署的署長彭副園他應該是到場的啦那因為他家裡臨時有事情那非常緊急的事情他昨天也親自打電話來就是準於請假那就就帶副署長來列席來做備詢好那另外呢其他就是財政部國庫署的副署長黃曉維你好"},{"start":1644.535,"end":1665.621,"text":"環境部環境管理署的副署長劉俊迪農業部的農糧署組長傅立中農業部的農糧署科長鄭永青農業部農糧署的技士陳衍書"},{"start":1671.916,"end":1700.092,"text":"農業部畜牧師檢證記證程俊榮農業部漁業署檢證記證鄭淑文農業部會計處科長王勝芳衛生福利部國民健康署研究員黃巧文衛生福利部食品藥物管理署檢證記證周佩如"},{"start":1703.237,"end":1723.323,"text":"好那涉及到有些預算的編列等等的就是請到行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員王淺凱行政院人事總處的主編人力處專門委員季嘉玲"},{"start":1727.799,"end":1743.778,"text":"還有這個給予福利處的專門委員林志玉好 謝謝因為今天真的涉及到蠻多議題的尤其在營養午餐的部分就請了相關部會的"},{"start":1747.833,"end":1774.574,"text":"人員來做列席做備詢好那我們現在請教育部政部長進行報告報告時間10分鐘主席各位委員大家早安大家好太高厚"},{"start":1775.785,"end":1804.515,"text":"今日本人應邀列席就高級中等以下學校公參與飲食教育之執行情形困難挑戰與因應對策及地方裁員補助問題及高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或支遣辦法進行報告請向各位委員長期對學校教育的關心與指導由衷表示感謝"},{"start":1805.942,"end":1828.408,"text":"首先有關學校午餐的議題長期以來受社會各界高度的一個關注現行國中小午餐供應方式分為公辦公營、公辦民營及外定盒餐比例各約佔三分之一高中的供應方式則較多元"},{"start":1830.219,"end":1846.427,"text":"午餐人力部分與學校衛生法等相關法令規範營養師、儲群人員及午餐執行秘書之工作職責、配置、聘用及教育訓練等"},{"start":1847.688,"end":1869.614,"text":"午餐收費部分各地方政府得依地區特性公餐方式補助方向等不同因素規範學校午餐每餐收費基準在飲食教育面向依據學校衛生法及課程綱要規定以納入健康飲食教育的相關內容以各教育階段"},{"start":1870.933,"end":1893.05,"text":"固定课程皆有相关课程实施学校并得应用校定课程规划饮食教育等教学活动这些年来在中央跨部会及相关单位共同努力下学校午餐采用国产可溯源食材覆盖率已达98.99%"},{"start":1897.279,"end":1911.558,"text":"並照顧經濟弱勢學生餐食及縮短成鄉差距但在制度要求日益提升下仍面臨各地方對於午餐人力資源的投入程度不一"},{"start":1912.179,"end":1930.045,"text":"午餐经会编列影响政策延续性午餐品质与食安管理专业能力需持续来精进等挑战因此本部将尊重地方自治以财政结构调整的前提下持续扮演专业引导以品质的把关"},{"start":1930.965,"end":1958.264,"text":"教就学校午餐人力品质及食品卫生安全等面向透过制度性的监理专业辅导及资讯揭露制度的机制掌握各地方政府执行的情形促进学校午餐人力配置的完善确保学校午餐品质持续精进并能落实相关食品卫生安全规范"},{"start":1959.105,"end":1987.513,"text":"本部將與地方政府共同努力確保學生享有安全營養及健康的餐飲其次有關高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法等相關議題解聘辦法在事實上最早先在108年訂定以後那麼在去年"},{"start":1988.806,"end":2015.58,"text":"在前年113年4月17日全文修正那麼這一年多來教學現場多有反應有爛訴 小案大辦 耗損行政資源等情形因此本部透過多元管道收集各界的意見審慎研擬對策並於115年1月12日完成解併辦法的修正花布"},{"start":2016.48,"end":2032.925,"text":"本市解聘辦法的修正重點包括建立親師生溝通預防機制健全檢舉案件受理程序刪除匿名檢舉明定保密義務與洩密的責任"},{"start":2035.839,"end":2055.865,"text":"建立案件分流機制及新增輔助人員的一個參與機制等重點方向本部配合本次解併辦法的修正同步強化辦理相關配套措施包括辦理學校相關人員法規宣導研習"},{"start":2058.177,"end":2083.143,"text":"校士會議人才庫的一個訓練製作學校受理作業流程圖QA懶人包提供學校參考應用本部並課證研議教師經暫時停聘及調查後不成立的相關輔助的一個機制"},{"start":2084.802,"end":2107.88,"text":"後續本部將持續關注解片辦法的執行情形積極保障兒少權益並兼顧學生的一個學習權以教師的教學品質同時有效解決實務運作衍生的爭議營造優質真正的教育環境感謝我們各位委員這些"},{"start":2111.383,"end":2126.141,"text":"年來對教育部的一些相關政策的一個推動的一個支持也請我們各位委員持續對我們營養午餐以及校事會議給予指導再次感謝我們各位委員謝謝大家 謝謝"},{"start":2130.202,"end":2144.536,"text":"好 謝謝鄭部長的口頭報告那現在進行詢答每月初席委員質詢9分鐘必要時延長2分鐘夜席委員質詢時間4分鐘發言登記截止時間為上午10時30分"},{"start":2149.301,"end":2175.362,"text":"如有委員的臨時提案請於10時30分前提出並與本會委員業員諮詢結束後即進行處理處理提案時若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場原例不予處理首先請發言登記第一位的柯志恩委員質詢謝謝莊委我們是不是請部長有請鄭部長"},{"start":2184.977,"end":2201.506,"text":"喂 部长好我想就1月12号你所公布的有关于教师解评办法的一个修正其实老实说就是有关校师会议的一个检讨那你对于这样公布之后你知道会造成非常大的反弹吗还是你认为一公布完之后所有的校师会议就可以被解决了"},{"start":2202.878,"end":2229.992,"text":"當然這樣的一個修訂事實上要全部解決我們第一現場的這些老師們所有的這些壓力的數我想是沒有辦法的但是我也要跟委員報告這一年多來我北中南分區跟老師們座談也跟家長協會教師協會家長團體跟民間關心台灣教育的許多團體做了許多的座談包含"},{"start":2230.552,"end":2251.07,"text":"好 没关系所以你部长做得非常多了好 很好11月24号在我们公听会完毕之后呢大概就只有一次的邀请所有的各代表过来所以说呢来陈述意见但是呢说实在的教育部只是提出了一个修法的方向但是呢没有一些明确的文字表达所以我们就说你是在表达你的立场"},{"start":2251.71,"end":2280.263,"text":"我也同样跟部长一样而且我本身就是培育师资的一个老师所以不管是我的第一线的学生还有包括在各区里面听到也有很多老师跟家长大家都希望从那个校园里面能够亲师关系都是和谐跟部长的期望是一样的但是我们就来检视你1月12号所公布的这部分到底有没有办法让我们整个校园大家已经过去来说已经是纷扰不休有没有办法得到停止我们先来看一下好了"},{"start":2280.743,"end":2297.9,"text":"我们为了要让这个校事会议不要每一件事情都进到我们所谓的全球独步的一个校事会议你们这一次呢先成立了一个叫受理审议小组没错吧受理审议小组里面呢就是在原来的校事会议当中少了行政人员这也没错吧"},{"start":2298.3,"end":2308.777,"text":"消息會是五個人受理小組是四個人所以你是教師家長然後再加一個專家然後呢有校長但校長本身是沒有投票權那我想請問部長那這個專家是誰來聘請"},{"start":2312.939,"end":2337.766,"text":"專家還是由學校裡面有校長來聘請然後校長沒有投票權來校長可以來決定校長沒有投票權因為你說要維持中立但是校長回到校事會議之後呢校長又有投票權所以我只請問這個受理也就是我們校事會議的會前會跟所謂的這個真正的校事會議有沒有跌船駕屋的這樣子的一個功能上面的一個漢格"},{"start":2340.373,"end":2345.5,"text":"只少的一個 只少的一個所謂的行政代表而已啊其他都一樣啊跟我們報告我們這裡邊怎麼樣去"},{"start":2350.419,"end":2376.981,"text":"兒少權益能夠確保不要跟我講這個你只告訴我有沒有重疊嗎有沒有跌床加烏嗎是沒有跌床加烏的怎麼會沒有呢你這個前面的會前會就是你的小組裡面我們就是家長一樣學校代表一樣專家是由校長聘請只是校長在我們的審議小組的時候不能發表回到的這個部分校士會議當中校長有投票權多增加一個行政人員哪一個不是跌床加烏你告訴我"},{"start":2377.501,"end":2394.09,"text":"我想我們相信教師代表教師的權益的維護跟家長代表這裡邊對學生小孩子的兒童我們都同意問題是你把這個學校有了一個校式會議後你讓整個學校變成好像是一個私設刑場一樣你讓它變一個法院開在學校裡面跟委員報告這一個"},{"start":2397.999,"end":2421.571,"text":"階段我們不希望因為校長還是要護學校辦學的一個責任所以不希望他求員兼裁判我們希望這一個來自專業那我問你校事會議學校長有沒有表決權如果不要求員兼裁判校事會議裡面校長有沒有否決權校長還沒有投票權也可以那這叫什麼求員兼裁判他在校事會議裡面可以求員兼裁判我們就是希望分流因為"},{"start":2422.671,"end":2441.551,"text":"在当时所有的这一年来至少我接到的信息大小事本来校士会是用来所以你认为受了你觉得前面受了一个会前会的受理选一小组就可以解决这个问题吗你觉得就可以解决这个问题吗至少他达到我们老师端的一个诉求希望他不要大小事"},{"start":2442.091,"end":2459.084,"text":"都進入到校事會議我們第一個先分流我想跟委員報告我們現在社會存在一個家長對老師老師對家長我們希望有更多的一些信任部長你當過老師我也當過老師我們都知道你剛講那個目標原則都沒有問題只是你制度的設計有沒有真正維護到讓老師的熱情不被剝奪我覺得是這樣子我想我們的想法跟委員"},{"start":2470.993,"end":2498.018,"text":"一樣 我想只是質疑你你設立的這個所謂邵里審議小組就是邵氏會的會前會有沒有真正讓我們成都的這個爛宿有沒有把制度的設計問題我們先來看嘛我想會比以前更好我不相信好 如果說是我相信的話就不會有馬上就有教師團體在1月25號要上街頭來如果你真的這個設計能夠符合他們的一個需求誠如你說的有跟這些教師團體好好的溝通不會造成這樣的一個狀況好"},{"start":2499.838,"end":2525.521,"text":"部长我们先来看看整个的部分里面嘛你的制度里面当然特别是在你们这个在这个校师会议里面真正进入里面有个调查小组我想很多的教师团体希望在这个校长小组当中除了三位外聘专家当中能够诚如你所说的更了解学校更了解学生的这个所谓的家长跟教师代表能够进入但是呢在调查小组里面被你们否决了没错吧"},{"start":2526.101,"end":2545.796,"text":"你們希望能夠只有法律的專家等等之類不必然是法律專家法律專家可以但是有很多的學校的老師跟家長更是了解學校的狀況可是就被你們用疑惑如果加入了學校的一些代表的話就會變成所謂的官官相護現在你們就是充斥著只要是學校老師出來發聲你們就認為他們在官官相護這是部長你所看到的嗎"},{"start":2553.662,"end":2573.388,"text":"調查小組裡面多增加的兩個難道不好嗎教師代表也可以是學校的一個老師的代表調查小組沒有教師代表 家長代表我們就希望因為他了解學校所以從學校裡面長出來的我說的是調查小組裡面只有三位專家代表就是婚後之前這一個的一個小組"},{"start":2574.248,"end":2597.418,"text":"部長我也知道分流的狀況但是呢當你調查小組把調查的結果放到校務會議校事會的時候呢其實一切就已經決定了就已經決定了常常就已經決定了就好像是檢調已經起訴了好不好陳主委員所提的我對基層教育我是熟悉的我完全同意啊可是我就是質疑這次的制度設計是有問題的"},{"start":2601.039,"end":2613.23,"text":"學校的爭議教師代表不應該由其他學校來當代表家長代表不應該由其他學校來當代表我們兩個現在沒有對焦部長我們現在沒有對焦我現在跟你說這個你跟我說別的東西這不是我現在只能跟你提倡我們這個所謂的裡面的調查小組當中我們只希望能夠多有一個對於學校裡面完全理解的因為我們很清楚"},{"start":2624.761,"end":2634.488,"text":"在校士會議當中整個之前的調查報告就已經決定了80%這才是為什麼那麼多教師團體希望在你們所謂的專家學者之外能夠加入我只告訴你部長"},{"start":2641.212,"end":2666.059,"text":"你們當然可以去執行但是呢有高度的重疊這個制度設計為了要避免校試會議不要被你們說有爛數你們反而在校試會裡面又前面又多出了一個審查小組但是裡面的名單是高度重疊的就事情的判斷來做分流那平常你的教評會什麼平常的考核會議之前就可以來判斷了難道沒有嗎在你我的年代當中就教評會就來判斷了"},{"start":2667.719,"end":2693.32,"text":"理解也同意委員我們以前時代就有嗎有你那時候的老師的尊嚴跟現在他在哪裡現在重點是108年當時為什麼既然學校有校教評會為什麼還訂出了一個所謂的校士會議對這個解聘不棄聘當時的體系當然有一定的時空環境可是當時因為這個校士會議裡邊希望有一個更專業更客觀來"},{"start":2694.141,"end":2714.015,"text":"我只告诉你部长你也很清楚的知道你现在讲了这么多的理由我们现在回归到最有温度的教学的现场你这套的设计有让我们现在的现职的老师因为你这个设计里面让他们觉得倍感尊严让他们觉得他们教育的热忱还是继续维持吗你就说着这个部分就可以了吗在我们的年代当中"},{"start":2714.355,"end":2733.692,"text":"我們當老師是什麼樣的一個尊榮我們現在的當老師是什麼樣的一個卑微你可以比較一下嘛我從頭到尾我沒有否定你的粗心我只告訴你現在的制度完全沒有辦法讓我們這個第一線老師受到任何的一個尊重嘛沒有嘛然後呢補償機制你們什麼時候研議出來你先讓我先問到這個部分我可以讓你回應"},{"start":2738.556,"end":2761.162,"text":"我們老師如果受到一個冤案的話你的補償機制研議到什麼時候出來你可不可以告訴我們一個具體的時程我們先把這個全部問題問完你同意回應這也要請委員多以支持確實我們現在的一個法令相關是有難度的但是我也跟委員報告自始至終我同意如果一個老師受到冤屈"},{"start":2762.722,"end":2789.281,"text":"民意怎么回复包含他的许多的权益怎么样来回复我想这一直自始至终好嘛那你什么时候要把我们的补偿机制演绎出来什么时候具体实际部长我从头到后没有否定你的初心我只告诉你你所设定的制度当中让我们现在的教育的老师第一线的老师越来越没有热情他们真的觉得回到学校去教书之后动不动就很害怕不是我引起的"},{"start":2789.961,"end":2812.637,"text":"但是我願意來協助解決問題當然 那你 好了沒有問題補償機制什麼時候出來什麼時候研議出來告訴我們一個具體的時程這是我們不斷在追問的我的立場一直是主張應該給予回復的但是我們現在確實有許多的法令必須要克服所以這個部分我們會跨部會包括跨院長那什麼時候 到底什麼時候出來"},{"start":2814.025,"end":2834.232,"text":"你要跨到哪里去啊你这个老师的这个补偿好 没问题所以是说给我们一个明确的一个时程出来好嘛 那什么时候嘛可能什么时候半年 三个月如果可以那么快我不会再这一次我这一次就会以我的个性这一次就一次到位了"},{"start":2834.312,"end":2852.348,"text":"您以你的個性我相信你會為老師的權益能夠做我只告訴你從頭到尾這是我所聽到所有的這個部分校園裡面的對立沒有因為你這個制度的設計變得因此更加友善老師的熱忱沒有因為這個制度增加一個會前會的審議小組因為這樣就這樣我們的時間成本也沒有因為這樣子而受到這樣的影響老師他們對目前先把這個不具名這個避免爛數"},{"start":2861.896,"end":2884.408,"text":"這個至少減了一半第一線的老師已經至少他們覺得這是一個好的開始匿名的部分裡面萬一真的是有一個真的是是匿名你們不予受理但是真的有一些的方式裡面他真的涉及到不當的體罰那你要怎麼處理只要是匿名你都不處理嗎那如果有這些事情發生你怎麼辦他回歸到什麼機制"},{"start":2885.609,"end":2914.501,"text":"如果真有這件事情的話我想有一些我們還是有一些流程這一個我們會所以你們回到考核機制嘛對不對如果說真的有的我們是有一個機制而且會給地方教育局處這個都跟地方教育局處討論過的所以我們在未來的這個沒有我只問說你如果說匿名審查你們都把它刪除但是如果真的是匿名審查但是真的是有涉及到不當的一個管教這個部分怎麼處理我們還是有一個程序上什麼程序原來體制上面的考核機制對不對"},{"start":2915.541,"end":2940.707,"text":"那是不是又回到原來的考核機制那是不一樣的什麼不一樣我們一定要看他在這個事實上那如果他有延期從主管單位裡邊我們透過那個檢核的幾個指標那就是原來的機制嘛對不對你最匿名的部分你就回到原來的機制嘛居民的話你就回到這個校式會議之前的會前會然後到校式會議然後再有檢查檔"},{"start":2943.812,"end":2948.361,"text":"你覺得真的會對我們的這個所謂的師生權益保障會更有效嗎你真的這麼覺得會比較好嗎"},{"start":2951.449,"end":2971.698,"text":"我相信他一定會更好你相信會更好好我告訴你我那時候就說1月12號你們這樣子提出這個部分裡面如果沒有處理好一定會讓所謂的教育現場老師更是覺得心寒果然這個部分裡面來說的話教師團體基本上他的最希望是整個根本廢掉"},{"start":2972.971,"end":2989.377,"text":"这是我们终极目标回到刚才委员讲的由校教评会来处理但是我们必须要讲台湾这些年来因为儿少前逸包括少子化很多的不必然是少子化每一个家长你这样说起来好像教师的"},{"start":2990.077,"end":3011.248,"text":"教师的这个团体里面不顾及你的这个儿童不顾及儿少法不顾及家长群你这样对教师团体不公平啊我当然校长我不是委员不能用这样做结论但是彼此之间如何增加彼此的信任更多的一个信任当然我一直相信亲师合作才能够把下一代教得更好"},{"start":3011.408,"end":3040.931,"text":"我当然相信部长这就是我们一贯身为教育工作者一贯的一个方向这个我们都不用再互相的质疑只是我们今天所讨论就整个制度的设计上面真正的是让我们第一线的老师到目前为止对于这样一个设计他们真的觉得已经有点心寒这也是一个你不能忽略到的一个事实没有人因为说这样的部分里面就完全忽略了学生忽略了家长的感受没有完全没有这样一个修正我没有办法满足所有的老师"},{"start":3041.451,"end":3062.404,"text":"也沒有辦法解決所有老師的一些問題但是他往好的方向在做我們就來看看有沒有辦法往好的方向所以說部長萬一這個過程當中沒有因此讓整個老師的這個熱情回復沒有辦法讓校園的堆積繼續的這樣子的有所減少你是不是可以承諾可以做另外一番的一個修正萬一你執行起來"},{"start":3062.824,"end":3089.827,"text":"这个是我们大概半年后我们会滚动半年后好半年后我们都还在对不对我们就来看现在是一月对不对七八月我们下个会期的时候我们就来看看到底还在不在好不好这才是一个很具体还有包括老师我刚刚所提到的他的补偿的部分我希望在半年后当中我们也可以看到我们今天站在这个地方都要讲出明确的时程跟明确的一个目标这才是我们身为教育者里面应该对这些老师对这些学生应该有的责任跟角色"},{"start":3090.387,"end":3098.769,"text":"也是我努力的目標我們半年後再來看看檢視這樣的一個成果好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝謝謝柯之恩委員那鄭部長請回座好我們現在請劉淑冰委員好謝謝主席請鄭部長好部長"},{"start":3125.956,"end":3150.067,"text":"委員好部長早我們今天特別要針對的是營養午餐的部分做詢答因為在您的報告當中有特別針對到說這一次又要針對的是營養的基準食材品質跟食品的安全跟管理的相關制度要作為有效的而且是應該是尤其是現在我們正在做一個立法的動作在學校的公餐跟飲食教育的條例當中"},{"start":3152.668,"end":3159.633,"text":"那這邊可是看到的是在115年1月6號之前呢看到的是只有10個縣市是免費嘛那現在20個縣市免費啦那你們在根據你們報告當中那如何落實監督跟把關其實是非常重要的嘛對不對"},{"start":3169.019,"end":3186.72,"text":"好那當然就想說問到這相關的氣勢是什麼我們再繼續看到目前教育部有針對這些食材人力偏鄉學校中央廚房弱勢等等等等可是呢這邊我就想看到尤其在食材部分看到的是說上個年度看到的是在"},{"start":3188.46,"end":3207.736,"text":"農業部呢他針對說現在的這個張Q制度吧張Q制度上面因為使用國產食材已經到達98.98是好事情可是呢農業部已經說了在115年就是現在開始的這個部分的錢是由地方政府的由統籌分配管的要應該自己來去來去支付對吧"},{"start":3209.457,"end":3228.326,"text":"可是這個地方我們看到的是齁在這個情況之下看起來是的確沒有錯可是怎麼樣呢是確定說他們因為統籌分配管有非常多的項目我們可以看看包括哪些項目齁這邊項目當中呢很多的是在於說你看到他還有這些一般的補助款啦基本設施水利啊等等啦景銷啦還有"},{"start":3229.426,"end":3239.915,"text":"國中小學水電費等等等等可是你怎麼能夠保證他一定會收得到呢尤其這麼多錢的東西他一定能夠保證到說他能夠落實到章丘食材的試用"},{"start":3241.12,"end":3261.5,"text":"謝謝委員我想第一個委員非常關心協同的這個營養午餐他們是不是食的安全包括飲食教育我心存感謝但是陳儒委員剛才所提的在這個我們營養午餐還沒過全國22個地方縣市已經有10個地方縣市本已地方自治的前者他已經免費"},{"start":3262.481,"end":3276.059,"text":"那這個我們在訂定的過程現在已經又有變成20個地方縣市除了新北市跟嘉義市我重點是你怎麼樣就落實啊我先跟委員報告這充分反映營養午餐確實屬於地方"},{"start":3279.062,"end":3306.038,"text":"地方自治的前者我想我们尊重地方那第二个三张EQ怎么样确保这个也跟委员报告我们所理解22地方县市都已经把三张EQ这一个放在年度的一个编列在年度的预算里边所以这一个先跟委员做这样一个补充说明那第二个就是我们当然有这个登录平台我们有许多的这一个监控的一个机制包含这一个"},{"start":3307.619,"end":3322.795,"text":"這個請專家協助如果地方有許多的專業上的一些營養的一些食材等等這個內容或者怎麼樣來開這個菜單等等我們事實上都會給予協助如果地方需要中央來"},{"start":3323.416,"end":3338.599,"text":"所以你們還繼續在協商但是張Q已經確定了他們各個地方政府都已經以今年來講目前我們所知道的22個地方縣這個115人好 這是好消息表示他們地方政府也是負責任的嘛對不對所以地方政府對市的安全跟品質他們事實上因為每一個家庭"},{"start":3339.46,"end":3355.301,"text":"在意他每一個小孩子是不是能夠食得安全 食得健康好 那我們繼續看可是現在一個問題是當營養午餐的費用由地方政府大部分都來支付的時候現在看到的是每一餐的價格是不一的喔"},{"start":3355.882,"end":3368.734,"text":"你看看喔 台北市是60到70喔 可是在高雄市呢他在之前是38到55這一部分你要做 你們自己報告當中說你們要做減核評估指標啦 定期檢視這些部分那請問一下如果 因為"},{"start":3371.196,"end":3394.982,"text":"價格上面是關鍵啦那如果你價格上面沒有一定的這樣的差距連六都裡面高雄市跟台北市都有這麼大的差距的話你的價格上面是不是給個Range是合理的不然的話呢尤其等一下還處理到的是還有廚餘的問題那廚餘的問題是不是也請部長或是其他部會來做一下說明因為這部分你的部分涉及到的是這相關的經費使用不夠的話怎麼辦呢"},{"start":3396.282,"end":3422.028,"text":"我想我非常同意委員的觀察這個數據就是說我們地方這個營養午餐我們重點還是要吃得健康嘛這個品質嘛但是因為地方各地方縣市的那個物價指數各地方的它反映到了一個怎麼樣的一個這個合理的一個價格你對價格上面不care就對了不是不care我要跟委員讓我多一點講"},{"start":3424.469,"end":3446.505,"text":"我的意思是说在这里边有一些我们观察他虽然是这个全美民会在过去呢他定了一个价格跟家长收的是比较低一点地方还是会有补助中央还是有一些补助嘛所以他可以吃的比如说他可能定55块最高但是他实际上公餐是一餐可能80块或者70块"},{"start":3447.446,"end":3465.992,"text":"就是說他怎麼樣去確保品質那委員所關心的這也是我們這個各地方縣市政府當他營養午餐要免費提供的時候許多民間團體包括家長團體也希望說你們不要訂太低喔因為整個物價整個品質因為價格反映一定"},{"start":3466.963,"end":3494.752,"text":"有一定程度的一個品質的一個保證嘛所以我想這對地方政府也是一個提醒我覺得這一個也是我們教育部會來努力跟地方要提醒他們怎麼樣確保我們實的安全好 那因為你說減核指標你還是沒有說出來我這樣想的啊你說跟物價有關係那是不是可以做你們的指南這邊做一個指南是說應該是說要做CPI的部分要隨時的這個你要去做一個減核的指標各縣市要達到這樣的一個目標可以嗎"},{"start":3496.152,"end":3503.231,"text":"是 謝謝委員提醒我們當然我們一定會做那你們這個所謂的定期檢視跟資訊揭露的部分會呈現在哪裡"},{"start":3504.434,"end":3525.617,"text":"你們未來會呈現在哪裡我們一個跟委員報告就是我們現在有食材登錄平台嘛那另外一個我們當然也希望說從中央的觀點我們怎麼去督導各地方縣市他們營養午餐的辦理情形我們當然也必要的時候也在透過一些公開媒體裡面能夠給以所以你們定期三個月一期還是說一個學期一期那我想"},{"start":3526.338,"end":3555.342,"text":"這一個我們更細部的我想我們一定會跟地方來做一些討論那至少每年一定會公佈一次好 每年公佈一次至少 至少好 我們現在因為你這樣做的話我覺得已經章秋的部分已經解決掉了所以包括450億的這個產業這個就大概可以獲得結束了那我們另外高中以下這個飲食教育的部分高中以下學校健康飲食指導內容及規劃的部分你們預計適合時要完成因為這是飲食教育的部分"},{"start":3556.315,"end":3571.261,"text":"我們已經頒布了是不是詳細請你請這個我們副署長113年的時候就已經有修正並且已經有頒布所以就繼續那你們剛才說還延擬延定這部分是繼續在持續性滾動嗎"},{"start":3572.821,"end":3590.055,"text":"這個部分是可以持續性滾動那基本上我們在飲食教育的部分的話12年國家課綱裡頭對飲食教育它基本上就已經有我知道對充分的一個內容那不少學校也把飲食教育當他們的校定課程"},{"start":3590.816,"end":3617.327,"text":"有看到部地校定課程都有對 沒有錯對 都有飲食教育的部分這個部分我想不管是中央或是地方或是學校其實都是非常的重視的我們也希望飲食教育可以能夠深入到每一個孩子對 這能夠改善我們的學生的健康是好 謝謝我們繼續再往下看就是大家所關注的校事會議那這邊我看到的是教育部有改變"},{"start":3618.227,"end":3639.279,"text":"那這個改變當中我想你可能更需要的多一點的溝通協調不是只有一次性的可能持續性的到未來都是這樣子那有一個很大的特色是說呢建立親師的生的溝通跟預防機制但是有一個問題是教育團體呢教師團體他就提到說那你也是我想詢問的是巡堂的觀客的時機是什麼時間啊"},{"start":3640.8,"end":3661.596,"text":"这部分平常就在做吗还是因为这个才去做变成是一种监督这平常就在做课纲里边也明定那是老师这个校长跟主任们等等再透过寻堂观课里边去协助老师或者有许多偶发的事件的一些协助处理所以我们希望回顾到包含刚才"},{"start":3662.657,"end":3686.046,"text":"科委員所提我們怎麼樣回顧到過去親師能夠更多一份的信任讓校園的教學能夠減少一些不必要的一些困擾我想這就是我們所談的我們要回顧到當等於說過去我們其實校園是一團和氣的老師相信校長校長相信老師家長也支持"},{"start":3686.866,"end":3708.504,"text":"老師的一個教學所以是本來就有只是說你們這個地方呢就把在開宗明義上面就是第一個部分拿出來大家不要忘掉初衷只有親師合作小孩子才能夠有更好的一個教育品質很好很好我這個部分要跟大家講就是教育部長那時候我跟副署長有提到教師法這一部分你們只有處分人卻沒有負責修復專業"},{"start":3712.347,"end":3731.12,"text":"就是怎麼樣把老師的輔導回到專業他就把他處分到等等等等的這一部分才是最重要的因為教師真的有問題各種的像評鑑評估知識什麼都有但是教師法就是沒有我當初也跟大夫有說了這部分強烈建議把教師法的修法加入到改正陪伴復歸專業的制度選項您覺得呢"},{"start":3733.442,"end":3754.7,"text":"我想這個我們當然可以來考量來這個努力看怎麼樣來修讓它更完善但是也跟委員報告我們現在有這個國教輔導團有學科輔導社群還有許多的教師的這個社群它怎麼樣假設我們發現它教學上有需要精進的"},{"start":3755.16,"end":3778.022,"text":"部長你要請你注意到教師法是關於教師權益的你如果給他申請停聘解聘但是卻這次過程當中卻沒有像依照大學的這個部分給他如果受到這些處分了但是必須要給他回復這才是教育的本質啊你這些團體等等沒有說在法規上規定上的辦法當中可是他的權益上面在教師法才是權益的部分啦是吧"},{"start":3778.482,"end":3801.4,"text":"但是我要跟委員報告如果他已經到那一個所謂的解聘的這當然我們大概就他必須要離開學校但是屬於學校考核的這一個部分我們確實怎麼樣來協助他改正陪伴然後復歸這個專業我想我們努力的方向是一致這是非常重要尤其是"},{"start":3802.461,"end":3824.553,"text":"部長您本身是大學教授校長你都知道大學就是有這個部分是嗎好那我們繼續往下看還有在第五條當中現在提到說的被害人跟其法定代理人這部分這部分怎麼預設老師有罪你把老師調查都還沒有出爐就已經預設老師是加害人嗎這部分真的要修改是吧"},{"start":3826.687,"end":3852.546,"text":"是好 那現在我們看到的冤案的補償機制這部分那你們在演繹 最後沒有公布出來我接續的柯市民委員繼續下去就是在說那現在的情況是 我知道是他的薪資部分就給他還回到但是學術加急的部分就還在跟人事行政總署對不對但是恢復名譽這部分你要跟我現在想請問的是跟全序部人事行政總署是哪一些規定哪些"},{"start":3853.467,"end":3876.416,"text":"行政命令跟委員報告我們確實在目前的法令人事總署裡邊相關的人事的法規它確實是這樣的就是說如果涉及到有一些紛爭就進入到這個這個停聘後來恢復的時候那只有本縫因為從人事法規這些年來所以你還不知道名稱是什麼你的法規名稱還不知道是什麼嗎"},{"start":3883.986,"end":3908.62,"text":"教师法还有教师待遇条例涉及到两个法然后因为也有公教横评的问题所以这个部分我们还在研究因为涉及到法律那这个部分是不是可以请事后给本级可以的我跟委员报告我自始至终在讨论校师会议的时候我常常跟我们同仁讲将心比心因为今天我们都不是当事人"},{"start":3909.5,"end":3938.498,"text":"如果我们是当事人被污蔑或者这个等于说被冤枉了将心比心你可能比现场的老师对体制的一个抱怨或者反抗可能是更大的所以我要跟委员报告自始至终设身处地将心比心一个很简单的同理心这也是我们的诉求我们希望能够跨部会跟"},{"start":3939.218,"end":3954.476,"text":"这一个包含人事总处包括财主单位包含全序部我们都希望本以这样一个初心来进行沟通希望我们台湾一直在进步我们许多的法令怎么样与时俱进这也是我们在努力的"},{"start":3954.616,"end":3983.268,"text":"好 我肯定部長你這時候站在教育部這個教文委會當中把一個大家長的一個心態說出來了 沒錯我們教師就是很清清白白的用個萬事思表或是一日為師終生為父的這樣一個態度在面對事情你講出來這個態度好 我覺得好 給你肯定那最後我們看到說 好啦這個各界的修法團體等等我覺得你能夠有的 因為學生那跟家長團體還是有些這樣的一個意見啦 不過我想你的溝通還是都不嫌多 繼續做好嗎"},{"start":3984.93,"end":3997.403,"text":"我們會持續努力我們希望哪一天就是說當家長親師合作回到我們過去所看到的校園的那個溫馨的一個場景那也許那就是校士會議要退場的時機"},{"start":3998.848,"end":4027.438,"text":"好 那最後我想要再看一下這部分喔 有關於對於教師在全面加薪喔 但是對專輔教師的這部分 因為他是他是沒有分 他是輔導學生不分上下課時間 他超時工作又是拿不到終點費喔 大量的文書工作是在另外的門 但是卻沒有一個實現這部分喔 那沒有獲得教育部的照顧 那請國教署這邊是不是回應 這部分專輔教師的他那個這樣子的 終點費有沒有涵掛到他們"},{"start":4029.195,"end":4047.041,"text":"我想我們會後我們內部也事實上也在考慮怎麼樣來對這個莊胡老師有一些更大的一些支持但是我們當時的一個教師的一個加薪或者這個終點會我們是希望一體適用的"},{"start":4047.501,"end":4074.738,"text":"对但是好像都是专辅教师那详细的我想我们再来看怎么样有一些相关的一些法令比如说还有一些老师比如说他谈代理代课的可能各地方政府在实施上是不一致的我们当时的想法是专任教师跟代理教师所有的终点会包含本土老师他大部分都是用这个等于说兼课的一个方式那怎么样把这些"},{"start":4076.439,"end":4096.51,"text":"這個終點會能夠一致這是我事實上昨天也特別交代彭署長這我們起心動念所有的老師只要他上課國小 國中 高中不一樣的終點會因為他授課時數長短時間長短不一但是我們希望他的標準這個應該都是一致的好 那這樣的情況什麼時候大概會出來你們研議會多久"},{"start":4098.59,"end":4120.346,"text":"我們這個禮拜會溝通因為基本上就所知道國教署人士這個教育部的人事處也都在協助做這個事情這個禮拜我們會簽給人總我們也會透過溝通希望能夠建立共識好 我們看到教育部有在做這樣的尤其是國簽署這部分有在做內部的溝通而且我剛才問就一個禮拜的這個答案就非常好"},{"start":4120.746,"end":4148.553,"text":"希望因為教育部長跟國賢署的所有人員或是包括其他部分的官員的一個合作讓我們的教師真的感覺到說他們是受到尊重過去有一些狀況有一些不連結的可以解決掉但是這才是最重要的因為教育是國本就是很重要就一起努力謝謝謝謝委員指導好 謝謝好 謝謝劉淑冰委員謝謝部長好 接下來我們請萬美玲委員"},{"start":4152.711,"end":4164.496,"text":"等一下我們要先確定上一次的議事錄反正現在有三位委員在現場請問對於上次的會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或是遺漏之處好沒有謝謝好現在請萬美玲委員質詢"},{"start":4182.32,"end":4185.443,"text":"謝謝召委 我們有請鄭部長有請鄭部長委員長"},{"start":4191.994,"end":4219.681,"text":"部長早千戶萬喚1月12號我們修正教師解聘辦法跟教師成績考核辦法終於出來了但是呢本來以為1月12之後可以解決掉大家心中的很多疑慮很多的問題但沒有想到看到教師團體依然有這麼多的一個意見跟想法那1月25號要到教育部來陳情那部長知道他們為什麼要陳情嗎"},{"start":4222.121,"end":4250.086,"text":"我知道你知道那所以1月25號那一天你會出來接受他們的陳情嗎我只期待這個教師團體能夠看到我們的努力很多的法令不可能一次到位兼顧台灣所有從兒少前一各個團體上這個我們都了解所以部長那一天會出來接受他們的陳情嗎我覺得他們應該要回到這個學校裡邊把小孩子教得更好"},{"start":4250.766,"end":4253.353,"text":"所以不會那好不要這個傷了我們對他們支持的心我們的努力"},{"start":4258.511,"end":4286.626,"text":"我想其实这个是应该要一个彼此尊重就像您刚刚一直在讲的是希望回到以前亲师很和谐我们对老师有相当的尊重这个才能变成一个良性的循环现在看起来一直在恶性循环当中但是这个不是靠呼吁就可以改变现在的一个状态的那有没有打算在1月25号那他们准备要到教育部成行之前能够跟这些教师团体来进行沟通不管是部长次长或是署长有没有这样的一个想法或计划"},{"start":4287.006,"end":4305.219,"text":"謝謝委員的關心但是我想這個教育部一直在跟教師團體有許多的一些溝通的管道但是我也只能講教師團體希望把校事會議廢掉所以1月25號之前我們沒有打算再進行溝通了是嗎"},{"start":4307.841,"end":4325.458,"text":"應該這麼講的我們國教署或者教育部的同仁事實上包括張廖萬堅次長也常常跟他們那個部長我想不要浪費時間講這些啦那過去的努力我也看在眼裡但是現在顯然就是還沒有辦法很完全的打消我們這些教師對於校師會議的一種恐懼恐慌跟不滿嘛"},{"start":4328.621,"end":4348.217,"text":"所以我希望在1月25号之前部里面能够去考虑是不是能够再跟他们继续沟通了解一下过去是在1月12之前那有很多他们的想法我们在沟通但1月12我们办法新修出来之后他们还有一些想法我觉得应该要再进行一次沟通部长可不可以再给彼此一个机会"},{"start":4349.627,"end":4361.536,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心因為委員也特別為了這一個召開的公聽會我想大家的想法都是一致的我還是那一句話保持溝通這沒有問題的我們來這邊討論一下這一次教育部你修的法當中最主要幾個點第一個我們刪除掉了匿名檢舉"},{"start":4371.644,"end":4392.584,"text":"第二个呢我们进行案件分流再来我们希望制度能够精致化但是呢我们看到教师团体这一次最主要他们的想法是说看到这一切修改但是没有办法去对于滥诉去解决这种所谓零成本的滥诉的问题那本席仔细去看了一下我觉得这问题当中"},{"start":4393.064,"end":4410.791,"text":"的確還有沒有辦法解決的地方在那你看你希望說在校事會議之前能夠再來一個所謂的私人小組的會議可是呢我們這個私人小組的會議當中那你為了這個我不曉得為什麼你要把這個校長能夠有意見但是沒有表決權這是為什麼"},{"start":4412.552,"end":4427.6,"text":"這我想我們希望學校終究的一個這個辦學的一個責任還是要校長負責但是學校裡邊怎麼樣能夠校長怎麼樣不要公斤變成氏族我想這一個我們第一個就是希望把這一個"},{"start":4428.16,"end":4452.592,"text":"因為我們要解決過去動不動部長啦 我跟你說啦這都是你的想法但是你知道嗎光是你這個私人小組會議啊大家都覺得跌床架屋不管是教師團體不管是校長甚至於校長更覺得說哇 短期內他其實要召開兩個會議而教師團體也覺得這裡面還是問題很多包括你現在讓校長沒有表決權教師團體覺得校長變成有權無責怎麼說"},{"start":4456.434,"end":4473.697,"text":"因為他還是召開會議還是可以表達意見他是有權的但他不用投票變成他是無責的可是校長認為呢所有的一切責任還是在我是一校之長但是我變成有責無權啊所以你這樣的一個修法搞了一個四人小組的一個會議啊其實是不順故意又逆了掃疫啊"},{"start":4474.218,"end":4503.598,"text":"所以没有得到大家有一个共识所以人家也说这个叫做新瓶装旧酒但我倒不这么认为因为总是有做了一些改变包括我们这个删除掉匿名检举本席是肯定这一件事的只是说未来的机制上面对于在匿名里面万一真有一件两件是真的真有歧视的时候我们怎么去防范这个部分可能就是再去多加思考一下但是我认为这个部分还是可以把这个烂数下降一点点的但是我想今天我们再来看"},{"start":4504.238,"end":4530.413,"text":"就是說你今天讓校長沒有表達意見這件事情看起來沒有任何一個方向的團體是買單的所以我不理解為什麼要做這樣跌床駕霧的事情跟委員我想我們的想法是跟委員一致的我們希望學校發生老師的一些可能管教上的一些這個可能有一些人質疑我們怎麼樣讓最熟悉這個學校的教師"},{"start":4531.587,"end":4550.694,"text":"代表還有這個學校的家長代表不是啦部長你應該要把今天大家的質詢聽進去喔因為1月12你可能好不容易集思廣益修了吧但是其實有很多的問題還是在裡面嘛你應該要把它帶回去也許你試行一段時間之後還要再調整不一定喔你去想想看今天我想我們幾個委員會有在講"},{"start":4551.314,"end":4559.842,"text":"你私人小組會議其實做了決議之後你回到校師會議校長還是要表決嘛所以這個權責你怎麼分你剛剛所講的其實你剛剛所講的問題還是會產生嘛然後要在這麼密集之內其實要兩次的會議我真的覺得啦"},{"start":4566.548,"end":4583.573,"text":"這次再多修了這個利益良善但是效果沒有達到好 那我們再來看你這邊有提到說如果私人小組決定要進到校事會的案件我們會再討論一次這個案件是屬於不適任案或者一般懲處案還是說我們就會直接進入調查階段是怎麼樣如果分流基本上就是它可能已經涉及到那個不適任等於說要解聘"},{"start":4596.109,"end":4613.461,"text":"就是我們習慣過去談的校事會議前面是在做分流因為我們要解決過去大小案去以去年為例1300多個案我知道嘛所以我在請教您說到了校事會議之後還需要再討論一次它是屬於哪一類的案子還是直接進入調查"},{"start":4614.221,"end":4642.97,"text":"直接就進入調查嗎我想這一次整個修法完以後你還提到了一個我們需要進入到校師會議的就是所謂的教師不適任案本席也列了一下所謂的涉及教師法的不適任案裡面有幾項其中一個在第16條第一項教學不力教學不力也是在當中但是這四個字很抽象可不可以請部長明確告訴我教學不力是指什麼"},{"start":4644.773,"end":4665.378,"text":"教學不利我想有一些老師就是他連上課都不來上課嘛這是在這個不用講這個就很明確啦那還有什麼叫教學不利譬如說遲到早對礦課礦止對學生所有的教學裡面完全不用心什麼叫做不用心當然"},{"start":4666.378,"end":4694.797,"text":"所以部長本席在這裡要提醒你你的教學不利這個部分呢其實就是要進到教師不是人案進到校師會議我覺得還有很多模糊的空間那當然你沒有辦法規範到100%但是也不能夠啊我們再重新修正以後就還是問題百出嘛那所以這個部分我希望能不能在會後啊你也想一想然後也給教文委員會的委員一個報告到底啊你所謂進入到教師不是人案裡面哪幾項是應該在這當中的"},{"start":4695.177,"end":4714.702,"text":"也讓未來的調查小組或者是你所謂的這些消息會議也好私人小組也好有一個比較明確的依循好不好所以這個會會要再給我們一下謝謝委員提醒因為確實我們在根據過去的歷史我們現在是在整理一些比較普遍的一些涉及到這個我又必須要有"},{"start":4715.242,"end":4733.6,"text":"不续聘这一个停聘等等这会后再给我对于案例也希望能够给各地方县市谢谢这会后再给我那另外我想我也是强烈的要求因为我们知道在就是之前12月31号的时候张亮万街次长其实有讲"},{"start":4734.201,"end":4753.031,"text":"他說1月12的校士會議的這個修法他一定會考入納入冤獄補償但是看起來沒有啊看起來沒有那時候說好的結果出來的時候是沒有我想我們校士團體當然都非常的失望那你剛剛有提到說想這麼做那如果能這麼做早就這麼做了"},{"start":4753.311,"end":4775.666,"text":"但問題是既然知道這是應該做的我希望部長能不能加快腳步如果你夠積極如果你夠想要我相信你所謂的跨部會其實是會尊重教育部的所以部長這個部分不管是我們的名譽的回覆實質的加急也好的這些補償我希望能夠更盡速一點能不能歇一個時間告訴我們大概什麼時候我跟委員報告我一直在努力我氣有不守"},{"start":4783.24,"end":4802.458,"text":"我希望當然是業快業好好既然沒有辦法借出時間來我們就希望你加緊腳步那最後我想針對這一次教師團體所提到的關於尋堂 觀客等等其實讓他們感受上非常的不舒服就像您說的這平常其實有在做"},{"start":4803.559,"end":4820.613,"text":"但是你要把它修在文字當中其實未來是不是只要有一個人經過了這個走廊經過了教室外大家都覺得有人要來監督有人要來蒐證我覺得這沒有辦法達到一個尊重我認為這個部分如果原本有在做的話我也希望部長能夠再思考一下怎麼樣做會比較細緻"},{"start":4822.535,"end":4835.381,"text":"那接下來我們進入到今天的這個營養午餐的部分距離上一次也就是在12月24號討論午餐的專訪其實又快要過了一個月所以部長你有沒有在跟行政院在溝通我們有沒有願板要出來"},{"start":4837.665,"end":4859.464,"text":"跟委員報告我們的營養午餐一直彭署長這個跟地方在溝通那陳儒剛才我跟這個劉委員報告在營養午餐法大家在希望他有一個專法的時候已經有十個縣市地方本於地方自治他已經在做免費我知道所以現在簡單來講目前還沒有願版對嗎我們寫"},{"start":4864.878,"end":4871.554,"text":"我們教育部有一個版本教育部有版本所以有布版出來了上次你是建議文字所以現在是有布版了嗎"},{"start":4872.677,"end":4901.456,"text":"我們也跟委員報告嘛到底是建議文字還是不版這兩個還是不太一樣啊我們有建議文字建議文字所以不是不版嘛部長修正一下所以還是維持在上次的進度啦好上次其實在審查的時候呢署長有說啦就是專法通過的話地方大概要承擔118億74億相關的補助那在44億可能有一些營養師相關的人事上那所以我們有在跟地方溝通那部長能不能簡單講一下現在署長跟地方溝通的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":4904.193,"end":4931.246,"text":"就是因為在這個喜多的營養午餐因為各地方因地制宜我剛才跟委員報告過的就是它可能有這個物價指數等等還有學校規模大小所以它有公辦公營有公辦私營也有用這個便當的委外的這個便當的一個送整整的機制它事實上在整個那個單價的一個成本那誰要來譬如說在我們過去的這喜多的偏鄉"},{"start":4932.686,"end":4958.024,"text":"好了 部长 我们不是在讲这个东西啦我今天要讲的是说这个第一个专访你们要出来那按照现行来说看一下你说你要这个研拟还有公告相关营养午餐的人力配置的原则嘛看一下是要用五原则去取代专访这个部分目前暂时我也没有意见但是我们就是要把营养午餐办好嘛那现在呢我们看到各县市已经有很多县市"},{"start":4958.624,"end":4981.17,"text":"有的是很積極就把營養午餐免費讓所有的孩子都有營養午餐可以吃那有的縣市當然不情不願也是做了這樣可見大家都往這個方向去走了那當然也有人提出來說是不是其實布林麵應該要讓我們全國的這個政策是統一的既然開始有營養午餐免費是不是全國都可以這個營養午餐免費由中央來做這樣的一個政策"},{"start":4982.174,"end":5001.692,"text":"跟我們報告他確實這一個就是屬於我們現在看到全國22個地方縣市已經有20個縣市這一個免費所以他充分說明了他就是屬於地方自治的一個前線但是教育部未來一定會確實把不打我提幾個例子給你聽"},{"start":5003.453,"end":5019.218,"text":"我們以前有那個子宮頸癌疫苗其實這樣講法不太正確就HPV 對不對那在各縣市開始慢慢慢慢就是有的縣市有做那有的縣市可能打國中一年級的女生有的二年級有的縣市可能慢慢打到高中當時是這樣"},{"start":5020.879,"end":5044.182,"text":"那於是後來中央發現說子宮頸癌疫苗HPV這個很重要那後來現在中央甚至於連本席提案的我們連男生現在也可以施打全國一致這是第一個第二個就你了解的我們代理代課教室的聘期以前是從縣市開始做嘛對不對有些縣市開始覺得說代理代課教室很重要我們就全聘期然後呢中央接手做"},{"start":5044.662,"end":5060.058,"text":"中華街有時候都做得很好啊那營養午餐為什麼不能這樣做呢所以本席認為我們應該全國的這個孩子吃營養午餐要佔營養的立足點當然我們可能因為這個食材的成本這物流各方面可能不一致但是我認為"},{"start":5060.899,"end":5089.455,"text":"部里面是不是应该要下去了解那在各县市的营养午餐的餐费设一个定额那开始要一律由中央来做那全部买单或者是做一个定额以上的来怎么样这个补贴但是我觉得这样的政策真的是应该中央做而不是地方按照各县市的财政的状况不同有的可能吃的好一点有的可能吃的差一点有的这个经费高有的经费低那有的甚至有做有的没有做有的现在做有的可能到财政不好他不做我觉得这样是不对的"},{"start":5089.795,"end":5108.79,"text":"前面两个例子嘛HPV还有这个戴克教师为什么中央在营养午餐这个部分不能做我想教育部确实因为他就是地方知识的地方前线嘛那特别我们看才华法地方事实上在整个经会上他更丰富了所以在这一个经会"},{"start":5109.511,"end":5114.553,"text":"就教育部的一個立場我們未來一定會部長 財化法讓地方的經費所謂你口中的更豐富不是這樣子說法那真的是要把有一些應該有的財源本來就應該要給地方那地方還有很多的建設要做"},{"start":5125.919,"end":5152.839,"text":"那你不能说才化法之后就什么全部通通都给地方做了嘛是不是这样子所以本席给你建议我觉得你应该要去思考一下当然我相信你心里有一个定见那这当然还有这个你还有这个上级给你一些指导可是我觉得其实是不是应该让全国的孩子吃在这件事情上统一这件事非常重要如果我们现在有的现实这样有的现实那样酸法又没有出来我觉得营养午餐这件事情未来还是会产生一些问题啦我们一定会定定一个"},{"start":5153.979,"end":5180.155,"text":"包含未來各地方縣市政府在推動營養午餐的許多的那個檢核指標我想這個我們一定會把他這一個跟地方來共同建立這樣一個機制我們確保學童吃的健康吃的安全有助於他未來的這個發展口號要呼籲但是我們動作也要落實來做好嗎請委員相信我我一定會這樣做我一直很相信你所以你一定要好好表現謝謝委員支持謝謝"},{"start":5182.773,"end":5207.345,"text":"好謝謝萬美玲委員那部長請回座好請郭鈺晴委員質詢好謝謝主席有請部長有請鄭部長"},{"start":5216.141,"end":5237.23,"text":"委員長部長早安辛苦了我想最近全台免費營養午餐的政策快速的在擴散目前已經有大概20個縣市他們也跟進上週連嘉義縣他們也宣布115學年度全面要免費但是他有說每年要多支出3.2億"},{"start":5239.431,"end":5256.278,"text":"我想嘉義縣長他也坦白的說其實財政對於所謂的地方政府來講其實是長期蠻吃緊的而且是一個長期的負擔甚至是要靠所謂的節省其他的一些支出來撐這個營養午餐免費的這樣子的一個政策"},{"start":5256.898,"end":5284.242,"text":"那我想也要提醒一下就是說我們身為這個主管機關那也要避免這樣子的一個現象變成是縣市之間的一種福利或者是軍備競賽那我想因為像台北市這樣子的一個資源比較多的這個縣市跟其他的縣市來講其實其他縣市他們在整個所有的財務的結構當然這個壓力也就全面的浮現因為這個要推所謂的"},{"start":5284.682,"end":5299.538,"text":"免費的營養午餐那大家都在講這個再窮不能窮教育啊那再怎麼樣苦也不能苦孩子啊這個是口號大家都知道那但是這也是我們必須要去正式面對的喔那我想呢如果沒有整體的一個預算的考量跟規劃"},{"start":5300.399,"end":5323.533,"text":"那有可能會因為各個縣市他們在排這個所謂的全面的免費營養午餐這件事情去擠壓到其他的教育的經費那這是我們不樂見的所以在這裡我想要還是提醒一下這個教育部我們身為這個主管機關可能之後有一些建議我等一下會再來跟這個部長來分享那我們先來看一下這個日本他們怎麼做的"},{"start":5324.744,"end":5342.574,"text":"其實在日本他們其實有特別針對這個學校的營養午餐所需要的但是他們長期以來大部分都是所謂的家長來做付費那當然這個有一些好處那麼他們的整個所有的做法是包含了這個學校要幫忙所有的設施設備的一個費用"},{"start":5344.255,"end":5364.984,"text":"那另外還有包含這個學校的營養午餐的營運的費用是由學校來支出那其他的就是這些費用之外的營養午餐所需要的其他的費用包含這個餐費的部分是長期是由使用者的家長來做負擔那當然這個最近他們才有一些部分的地方來推動這個免費的營養午餐"},{"start":5367.065,"end":5388.056,"text":"不過這也佔總體在日本的40%而已這個還沒有過半就是只有40%是這樣子的一個設置同時其實他們最主要的原因是為什麼他們沒有全面推是因為他們也擔心因為資源的排擠因為財政的負擔因為這樣會排擠到所謂的營養午餐的品質"},{"start":5392.798,"end":5418.618,"text":"這也是現在其實我們也聽到很多的家長的聲音如果我的價格被鎖死了那我的孩子要吃得更好一點但如果這個價格被鎖死我們沒有考量到其他的一些成本的費用包含儲供或者是包含運輸的成本還有包含物價的成本我價格鎖死在那個地方為了要提供給學生的營養午餐但問題是我排擠到其他的資源"},{"start":5419.338,"end":5445.34,"text":"教育的資源包含校舍包含師資包含一些人力行政等等我排擠到這些所謂的資源的一個預算的時候那我的營養午餐的品質有沒有可能以前不用裹粉的扎扎實實的就是肉一塊但是現在因為這個價格鎖死我變成肉變小塊了成本降低了但我全部都要裹粉家長會開始有一些擔心所以我們必須把這樣子的一個現象"},{"start":5447.041,"end":5464.166,"text":"來提點就是身為主管機關的教育部那在這個部分我想要請教的喔當然我們說營養的就是免費的營養午餐我相信有一些好處但是它相對的來講有哪一些些我們可能要被預期"},{"start":5465.006,"end":5490.316,"text":"要發現的一些面臨的風險跟挑戰那不包含第一就是地方的財政的壓力這個我剛剛有提到再來第二我會不會排擠到其他的教育資源的預算好這個也是再來我的公餐的水準要怎麼樣能夠維持才不會影響到孩子的這個營養的健康那在這裡我想要請教一下這個部長最核心的一個問題"},{"start":5491.676,"end":5519.658,"text":"在所有的各縣市沒有中央統一的一個財政的支撐之下那麼爭相說我要推所謂的這個營養午餐那我們的教育預算真的能夠零排擠嗎這個部分我想請教一下是不是已經開始有些地方的這個縣市政府他們也在反映說我可能因為營養午餐的部分我必須要舉債或者是我也會排擠到其他的教育的支出這個部分"},{"start":5520.719,"end":5545.871,"text":"這個教育部有掌握嗎謝謝委員確實因為我們台灣現在因為產業的巨弱不一它散佈在各個地方縣市政府也不同產業結構這個的差異也造成地方縣市的一些稅收跟中央的投籌分配款這個一般普及它確實是有落差的那委員剛才所關心的它確實會有這樣的一個問題"},{"start":5548.172,"end":5576.372,"text":"現在教育部有掌握到目前已經有些縣市已經開始受到所謂的這些正在排擠不管是獅子也好人力也好或者是學校的教學設備有沒有排擠到過去跟我們報告確實因為像營養午餐因為專門的營養師或者相關的一些人力過去我們中央是因應這個地方它的區域譬如偏鄉或者小規模的怎麼樣有一些"},{"start":5577.313,"end":5597.201,"text":"整體的一些協助然後這一個人力的經費由中央來協助包含偏鄉經濟弱勢包含委員剛才所提的那些所謂的偏鄉的那些廚房等等的這些設備那我們當然也希望說在因應地方一方面它是真的"},{"start":5597.941,"end":5627.029,"text":"在這個委員大家所關心的專法之前已經有10個縣市已經免費使用然後專法還沒有大家還在討論已經有變成20個縣市所以只能說它真的就是一個地方制的前線那教育部這邊我們當然還是希望說中央未來怎麼跟地方來合作來協助我們至少在怎麼樣讓學童吃得健康吃得安全食材我們有監控的機制"},{"start":5627.429,"end":5651.612,"text":"三張EQ現在已經達到99% 98.99那這樣的一個情況我們怎麼樣跟地方合作你們一定要落實因為我們知道地方因為他把這個營養午餐變成地方來這個免費使用他們也在今年也開始編了這個三張EQ的三Q的這個食材上的一些經費我想"},{"start":5652.993,"end":5679.754,"text":"地方也在努力但是委員所提及的所有的這些可能衍生的問題我們教育部也會跟地方來我們必須正面的承認這個所謂的這個政策競賽變成政策競賽這樣子的一個現實我們什麼時候會開始啟動中央對於地方政府在營養午餐這一塊的整個所有的盤點的作業或者是我們有沒有這個建立就是不要排擠到其他的教育運算的一個監測"},{"start":5680.895,"end":5696.819,"text":"謝謝我的提醒我們確實針對過去還沒有全面免費地方自治的時候我們有按照各個地方學校大小還有地方的生活指數有給不同的一些營養午餐確保品質這樣一個機制差別的"},{"start":5701.94,"end":5719.148,"text":"有一些部分是教育部來補助所以未來我們會把這些的機制有一個更積極的那我們有一些更積極的一個配套或者是我們怎麼樣來做盤點然後再來跟我們的地方縣市政府怎麼樣來對接所謂的這個營養午餐的這一塊跟其他的這個教育經費的這個部分希望當然"},{"start":5719.628,"end":5739.422,"text":"不要产生所有的排挤那这个部分如果我们有更具体的一个盘点的计划或者是怎么样跟地方政府来做更好的一个沟通跟桥梁如果有具体的一些计划再提供给我办公室可以吗好的因为其实我们也担心就是人力的结构其实现在在学校就已经产生了非常非常大的我们也不希望发生这样的事"},{"start":5739.522,"end":5762.296,"text":"是因為我們看到很多的營養師他是一人要尋多效啊然後再來再包含一些廚工他們長期領的所謂的這個基本工資可是他們是高壓高溫而且是壓力很大的一個工作的狀況之下其實也很難留得住人這個有可能會成為所謂的制度的一個破口這個部分我們也希望主管器官要來掌握國教署一定要充分掌握"},{"start":5762.836,"end":5778.263,"text":"地方縣市政府在推動營養午餐的所有的這一個因應這個地方改為是一個免費以後所有的真實的這個運作實施的情況好沒問題那接著下來因為只剩下最後的這個兩分鐘不到的一個時間我想這個校室會議的部分"},{"start":5779.784,"end":5796.286,"text":"那麼我是第一個在去年的5月28號開始我就針對校事會議來做這樣子的一個質詢那麼當然其後我也收到有很多的不管是這個教育第一現場的老師跟我們陳情光是我的辦公室至少有100多案快200案"},{"start":5797.307,"end":5826.031,"text":"是老師的對於所謂的校事會議的一個澄清那我想今天我再次的針對所謂的校事會議的一個制度因為之前我們部長有說我們會往好的方向前進那麼預計在去年的12月底本來要公佈但是延到今年的1月12號但是這個公佈我們必須說兩個方向我肯定教育部的作為包含我們刪除匿名結局那麼我相信這個應該會減少很多所謂的爛訴長期大家在"},{"start":5826.291,"end":5854.307,"text":"第一線的緊張跟擔憂好再來的第二那麼明定教師在這個教評會陳述意見的同時其實我們也要去把過去我們忽略掉的這些所謂的程序正義再次的找回來那這個部分其實我們也肯定教育部的一個做法但是呢不管是我們的條文怎麼寫其實後續的怎麼實施怎麼盤點才能夠修正所謂的不足來彌平現在教師看到最新的1月12號的這個"},{"start":5856.268,"end":5880.829,"text":"結果他們還是心裡不免要擔憂啊那這個部分其實我真的還是要提醒這個教育部喔如果說第一我們剛剛講到我們要分流嘛對不對我們不是說這個案件進來之後我們先分流那麼不管是所謂的這個親師溝通的上面的小誤解或者是呢對於所謂的主觀認定對教學風格不滿這個部分我們怎麼樣把它剔除掉但問題是如果寫進寫進"},{"start":5882.27,"end":5909.737,"text":"的這個條文當中那後面其實我們要怎麼樣去執行怎麼樣去規範就像剛剛其實也有委員提到的我光是用教學不力這個字教學不力這四個字其實我的辦公室就已經收到好多的案件到底什麼叫做教學不力這些怎麼定義那我們後續怎麼樣來作為可以檢視的一個判斷的依據那麼當然民間的有一些這個教師的團體他們也在研擬就是說受理分流的一個檢核表"},{"start":5910.337,"end":5934.999,"text":"這個部分其實我也提醒這個教育部我們自己也來做這些檢核表也就是說我們把所有老師他們在現場可能會預期碰到的我們會整理過去的案例然後怎麼樣讓這個現場老師我們也會辦說明會但動作一定要快不要小案大辦因為我們這個校事會就只要只是處理那個已經到不適任這一個要解聘不濟聘的"},{"start":5935.439,"end":5950.188,"text":"了解 所以要怎麼樣來接受所謂的校園事件受理分流的檢核表這個部分我覺得我們教育部自己可以率先先來做起來呼應一下這個一線老師好 那大概什麼時候可以出來給我們"},{"start":5951.665,"end":5975.689,"text":"說明會明天就有一個說明會我們也希望跟各地方政府裡邊也許可以有一個分區進一步的去有更多的一些我們當然理解這個所謂的制度的改變不可能一次一刀切也不可能一次就會馬上的到位當然其實我們聽到在第一線現場的教師朋友們他們還是會有很多的"},{"start":5976.309,"end":5999.512,"text":"心生疑慮或者是他們有承受壓力的這樣的一個空間所以我想如何定期的統計校事會議的案件跟數量還有它的類型還有結案的結果到底是什麼請問大概多久會有一次跟委員報告我們確實在新的修訂辦完以後我們會開始蒐集地方實際發生的案例然後在半年裡邊我們會全盤再做一個檢討"},{"start":6000.393,"end":6016.125,"text":"半年所以是半年基本上是半年的時間我們大概基本上到六月等學期結束我們會有一個希望會有一些能夠讓教師們安心他們讓他們再那再來最重要的一點就是"},{"start":6016.645,"end":6042.476,"text":"對於查無不法的教師這個具體回復名譽的支持的一個做法我希望這個支持的做法能夠盡快趕快然後讓這些教師們他們真的已經接受過這麼長期的一個不管是調查或是結果其實真的也讓他身心俱疲的這樣子一個狀況怎麼樣回復他的這個不是要言議中怎麼樣來讓他的名譽回復這是太重要的一件事情謝謝韋汝關心"},{"start":6044.417,"end":6067.465,"text":"當時第一次在執行這個就有特別提到這個部分我也是將心比心其實這個部分都是我們內部討論裡邊希望能夠恢復老師的一個名義也包括他的一個薪水但是目前還需要有一些法令跟跨部會上的一些溝通包括法令上的一個修正我們也在尋求有沒有其他的替代"},{"start":6067.605,"end":6093.864,"text":"那請盡速具體的提供就是我們的時間要研議到什麼時候讓這些真的備受所謂的身心煎熬的老師們能夠快速的回復他們的名譽因為當老師不容易真的不容易我們替他稍微再多給他們更多的支持可以嗎我完全同意好 謝謝謝謝部長謝謝委員謝謝主席好 謝謝郭育琴委員那請部長回座"},{"start":6109.678,"end":6130.795,"text":"好部長需要水啦或者是等一下那部長都可以在上面再喝水好不好再上上去OK好請羅廷維委員質詢"},{"start":6142.1,"end":6155.148,"text":"謝謝趙偉有請部長有請部長等一下水杯就直接拿到部長的講台上面好部長好部長好久不見"},{"start":6156.98,"end":6173.181,"text":"學校午餐牽涉到學生的健康教育公平跟社會照顧是最基本最有共識的一個政策之一目前全台灣超過一半的縣市宣布實施國中小營養午餐免費我想這個你應該都有所了解"},{"start":6175.055,"end":6203.432,"text":"台南市也相繼的宣布要在115學年度前全部的實施形成一個明顯的政策趨勢也因為如此校園午餐不再只是弱勢的補助還有部分的負擔這樣的議題而是攸關全國教育公平財政永續的重大政策請問部長您怎麼看現在各縣市陸續宣布國中小營養午餐免費的一個政策"},{"start":6204.585,"end":6227.017,"text":"我覺得這剛好是符合這一個地方自治法裡面那是屬於地方的一個權責那地方能夠勇於承擔我覺得這不是壞事因為如果由中央統一來做事實上委員可能也知道在民國99年當時這個政府希望用特別預算來這個"},{"start":6229.389,"end":6255.246,"text":"全國統一的免費營養午餐事實上就被監察院糾正這個是不宜的他應該從使用者互惠但是我們的法令屬於這個地方的前線我想我們尊重地方勇於承擔來照顧我們新世代的這些中小學生的營養健康我覺得這是一個好事"},{"start":6255.566,"end":6278.571,"text":"那你認為免費會不會就讓品質下降呢我想不必然就是說地方政府我相信他會納為免費一定有他整體的一個地方縣市地方的一個城市發展包括對新世代小孩子的一些照顧但是教育部也有責任也就是說好 謝謝這句話很重要"},{"start":6279.111,"end":6290.325,"text":"教育部有責任我們在這一個怎麼樣確保學童的食的安全 食的健康就像我們過去由中央來協助地方三張EQ這一個部分我想我們包含未來的這個我要說的"},{"start":6295.552,"end":6313.513,"text":"我們都會來前面的來這個我想投資學生的營養視為教育投資的一個一環這個不是單純的社會福利那不要只是說尊重地方自治卻沒有進一步的制度性支持當然你們有三張EQ我知道"},{"start":6314.534,"end":6338.573,"text":"那我想这个将出现孩子的营养午餐呢是否免费取决于出生于哪个县市遇到哪一任首长的严重教育不平等在基本教育权的一个角度呢我想教育部要扮演的角色也是很重要的那我想现在要讲的是学生午餐费系属于代收代办费也诚如今天报告所写的"},{"start":6338.993,"end":6364.59,"text":"中央推学校营养午餐的政策是为了缩短城乡的一个差距照顾弱势的学生协助地方建立公餐的体系政策精神是补不足建制度但当今天各个县市纷纷推动学校营养午餐免费的一个政策的时候教育部是不是有考虑到如何支持考虑全国统一免费"},{"start":6369.654,"end":6390.655,"text":"這個是地方自治那我們地方應該用地方自己的一個角度去承擔但是免費不應該是最低的標準部長當餐費一旦被固定物價一旦上漲第一個被壓縮就是菜色這是我們擔心的還有品質跟營養我相信每一位縣市首長不希望看到孩子吃的是免費但是清淡但是單調"},{"start":6391.616,"end":6414.825,"text":"甚至是營養不足的營養午餐營養午餐對於學生來說可能是一天三餐中最均衡最重要的一餐因此想請教一下部長教育部目前是否有評估在各縣市自行負擔免費營養午餐的情況下如何避免財政的壓力反而影響午餐它的品質以及多樣性簡單來問"},{"start":6418.254,"end":6444.09,"text":"教育部有沒有評估是否應該承擔一個基本的比例或者是基本的額度而不是全部都丟給地方來承擔我想地方縣市政府因為他是地方自治的前線他會宣布免費提供營養午餐我相信他也同時會把對學童的吃的營養 吃的健康 吃的安全這些等等的因素考量"},{"start":6445.09,"end":6461.125,"text":"納進去成為他的一個政策推動的一個考量那所以我從來不擔心他們會用一個所謂的便宜的一個營養午餐或者吃的不營養不健康的一個午餐的提供那教育部這一個部分"},{"start":6461.545,"end":6474.169,"text":"我想包含委員剛才所關心的怎麼樣個每一餐的菜色裡邊它所包含的營養的機制我們有一些學者專家我們有建立專業的一些輔導的機制包含我們有食材的一個"},{"start":6481.892,"end":6496.629,"text":"这个登录平台确保三张EQ这些等等的机制我们都有的有要跟地方来这个共同讨论我们怎么样去确保地方在推动营养午餐的许多的品质这个机制我们大概"},{"start":6497.871,"end":6517.829,"text":"每年至少我们还是会有一个知性的揭露部长我知道我相信三张EQ你会继续做那我还是希望能够给予更大力度的帮助不是要求你来帮忙他们免费而是更大力度的帮助不管是营养午餐更有品质或者是更加好吃"},{"start":6518.83,"end":6540.04,"text":"這個是教育部可以幫忙協助的加入這一場營養午餐的行列不是要求你只是出錢給予免費制度上的幫忙也是很重要的一個部分回到核心的一句話地方政府願意投資孩子的營養午餐中央政府應該要加強幫助把營養午餐做得更好吃"},{"start":6540.72,"end":6563.992,"text":"更營養而不是勉強的看到這些地方營養午餐免費而已希望教育部能夠思考怎麼樣能夠成為地方政府的後盾今天我們回到整個書面報告學校衛生法第16條要求健康飲食教育12年國教各領域課綱也納入了飲食教育的一個內容並嚴定了高中以下"},{"start":6565.052,"end":6583.322,"text":"學校健康飲食的教育指導以及內容的規劃但食物上各個學校的許多營養午餐課程仍是各做各的學生對於食材來源食安風險糧食的議題理解有限教育部如何評估飲食教育的實際成效這個部分呢"},{"start":6584.022,"end":6594.17,"text":"我想對老師的真人包含這個營養師包含儲物工的公共衛生等等這些教育部我們想我們一定都會跟這個地方繼續持續來合作怎麼樣讓他們更專業更專業之外嘛"},{"start":6600.615,"end":6615.214,"text":"我們也有一些科技上譬如說用AI來開菜單確保這些菜的一些食材的內容有一個金屬的品質我想我們一定會確保這個品質中央跟地方一定是合作剛剛講到這個營養午餐"},{"start":6617.276,"end":6633.602,"text":"就是不拖午餐祕書那再來還有一個出宮的問題但是我要這個部分我要發聲不要要馬兒好不要馬兒吃草現行大多都是由教師去承擔營養午餐祕書的工作長久以來國中小兼任午餐祕書幾乎都是在做功德"},{"start":6634.122,"end":6663.069,"text":"他事實上不一定有老師他看不同的大小規模的區域我還有看過校長做午餐秘書這個我們都知道校長他有專業他願意這個勇於承擔校長都說被迫做功德我們不要騙了當然他如果有專業我們是樂觀其成但午餐秘書的這個行政工作但是卻沒有工作加急午餐專法還沒有完成之前有些擔任午餐秘書的老師能不能給予他們行政加急"},{"start":6663.849,"end":6667.59,"text":"之前我就請教過部長這個問題部長可不可以給我一個回應以現在來講它事實上是減少授課時數授課時數看起來不夠所以有限時在提出多增加授課時數減少嗎願意把它這一個這一個設為這一個堅持"},{"start":6682.856,"end":6711.969,"text":"那地方願意來給予一些工作中央願不願意幫忙我們先不要問地方嘛午餐秘書的加級就是零嘛除工部分的照顧也沒有兼顧到嘛未來的地方肯定會有更多這個勇於承擔在這些那哪時候換部長您承擔哪時候換中央政府承擔去年12月31公布的行政獎金提高1000到2000元有沒有包括行政秘書沒有嘛"},{"start":6712.549,"end":6727.258,"text":"那那個時候我們看到教育部要承擔啊可是教育部有跟地方開會啊一人無私無私好沒關係至少有進步了嘛那中央願意帶頭來承擔要求地方一起來承擔什麼時候我可以看到部長"},{"start":6727.978,"end":6754.636,"text":"行政加緊的部分中央來承擔我們對老師的一個關照我們也看到有些地方縣市已經在加碼了教育部所定的是一個基本的門檻但是地方縣市今天我看到您的回應就是由地方加油地方承擔看到等到教育部一定是跟地方一起合作的"},{"start":6755.276,"end":6779.831,"text":"我想這個態度是很清楚的我想這個部分如果教育部願意帶頭就像這一次行政獎金提高一千到兩千你再來跟地方來說我們來五十五十 六十四十這個都是好的開場嘛這也是一種合作啊並不是你在跟地方來對抗啊所以我還是要幫不管午餐祕書或者是廚工來幫忙我們可以來努力啦"},{"start":6780.171,"end":6801.558,"text":"但是中央跟地方絕對不是對抗的一定是合作的我另外跟你說上次這個行政獎金提高說有通知地方要跟地方一起共同研議50-50我收到的資訊地方說他們根本沒有說要承擔這50%他們開會都是被要求被通知那這個部分他們的說法"},{"start":6802.938,"end":6826.403,"text":"當然我是說我還是回到剛剛說的您願意帶頭好事好事謝謝但是我希望能不能這個部分午餐祕書還有我一直在追蹤的課後照顧寒暑假學藝活動終點費他也有被整個被沒有注意到啊所以上一次我在講的時候張亮萬間次長也說他們要做整體評估兩週了請問評估的整體狀況如何"},{"start":6831.983,"end":6853.911,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個部分會是比較牽涉是使用者付費包括就是課後輔導這個部分還有這個部分我們會再跟相關的主管機關還有跟家長團體什麼時候可以給我答案已經兩週囉我們會盡快一個月內可以嗎部長一個月內可以嗎"},{"start":6857.064,"end":6883.604,"text":"會牽涉到就是跟相關的我知道 所以你一個月給你溝通嘛好 我們一個月之內我們會開會一個月喔 部長我們來努力啦我們來努力啦我想這個部分真的我們希望啦大家要來努力再來剛剛拍板定案的校事會議的一個新制包括三族匿名檢舉建立案件分流機制新增輔佐人參與機制各界都有一些不滿意的聲音你知道嗎"},{"start":6887.27,"end":6904.698,"text":"應該說民主法治的社會一定任何一個法令都不太可能百分百滿意但是這一次全教總也說這次的修法明顯惡意的濫訴沒有防堵機制啊所以全教團他們也在說修法版本太人質"},{"start":6906.378,"end":6931.68,"text":"這個部分部長要不要回應一下部長 全教總還要有可能走上街頭您可不可以親自的去接他們的陳情書來回應他們我剛才講的跟我們報告民主法治的社會我尊重他們表達他們的希望他們的想法我想我予以尊重但是所有今天的分流包括這個減少停止爛訴等等的這些措施包括"},{"start":6932.481,"end":6949.664,"text":"这一个老师是不是如果有被指控的老师也有这一个协助的人的角色等等的许多都是来自于教师团体他们的诉求我想所有的法令的修正很难一次到位但是至少那个方向"},{"start":6950.345,"end":6964.933,"text":"我們再努力我想這一次的修法許多的意見是來自於那當然我也理解教室會最終底他希望校室會議整個不要設立那當然他有他的一定的這個時空背景"},{"start":6965.453,"end":6993.375,"text":"另外就所有被指控被冤枉的人他的這個到最後的名譽恢復包括他的待遇是不是能夠恢復這個確實我們在努力所以部長最近我近期我提出教師法第25條教師待遇條例第19條的修法版本主要是針對教師停聘後經濟程序一個或恢復聘任的時候停聘期間各項待遇的補發範圍現行警民定本心"},{"start":6994.69,"end":7009.241,"text":"沒有考核獎金、年終獎金、職務加給、學術研究加給以及地域加給其他構成教師報酬的重要項目這些獎金及加給也都是教師待遇的一環所以我主張一起補發部長 您覺得呢"},{"start":7012.039,"end":7040,"text":"我的立場很清楚但是因為我們現在的法令確實是公教有許多相關的規定是綁在一起的也就是說將心比心一個被冤枉怎麼樣去恢復他的名義他的該有的一些待遇也應該權益也應該給予恢復這樣的一個方向我自始至終是持這樣的想法所以你認同我剛剛提出的我想我們很多的委員都有這樣共通的想法"},{"start":7040.64,"end":7064.776,"text":"我是跟大家的想法是一致的好 謝謝 這很重要我想我們都不希望被冤枉但是他受到了整個申訴的過程終於還清他的一個清白能夠拿到他應有的一個權益這個我們大家一起來回復維護他們的權益但是也請你能夠多看看最近全教總他們說的他們擔心小案大辦"},{"start":7065.777,"end":7086.518,"text":"当然我们希望有这样子的申诉机制我是完全无法理解我们当然法令上我们希望半年后我们再收集这个新的办法这个实际实施但是我们怕这半年内又有更多的受害者我必须要讲如果没有改变所有的老师继续被滥诉或者被这个小案大办"},{"start":7087.099,"end":7103.051,"text":"如果我們不給一些時間我們完全無法了解這一個法令修改上的一個好處然後現在就指控還繼續這個小案大辦然後說我們這一個爛數持平論這個是我沒有辦法接受的我們所有花了一年的一個時間"},{"start":7104.827,"end":7125.949,"text":"在聽地方基層的一個聲音結果還用這樣來指控這我沒有辦法接受我想你有你的一個責任跟你在這一年的付出我可以尊重但是我也希望憑心而論全教展他們在講的時候全教總在講的時候他們也不是沒有來由或是沒有理由"},{"start":7126.209,"end":7155.612,"text":"大家都好好的坐下來把所有的意見再次的整合是不是能夠再提出一些更好的版本就像你說的沒辦法一步到位我承認但是你不能夠忽視掉這些聲音好不好民主法治的社會我完全同意一定會有不同的聲音我也常常用這個提醒我自己怎麼樣在大多數人的一個這個能夠權益保障但同時也兼顧到少數人的一個聲音包含權益這我想"},{"start":7156.572,"end":7177.612,"text":"這個基本的態度我是有的所以我們會繼續努力好 謝謝好 謝謝羅廷偉委員那部長請回座先讓他休息一下"},{"start":7184.076,"end":7201.554,"text":"好 請葛如君委員質詢葛如君委員之後呢就休息十分鐘 謝謝好 謝謝主席有請鄭應耀部長好 有請部長"},{"start":7207.779,"end":7222.994,"text":"委員好部長好我想在這裡要說明一下我覺得主席真的是暖心主席每一次都讓部會首長回去還有時間喝口水也希望部長你也要成為暖心部長"},{"start":7225.651,"end":7237.126,"text":"這個我們今天真的是好久不見這句話真的不是誇示是對真實情況的一個描述上一次部長出現在我們的教育委員會的這個位置是去年的10月15號"},{"start":7238.7,"end":7263.655,"text":"距離今天97天將近要100天了部長您剛剛有說一年的時間準備這個法案這個法案不管是怎麼樣其實也需要溝通所以您如果可以多來立法院多溝通我想很多事情也許不管是教師 家長 學生都會更加了解那我們這百天當中我們教育委員會有安排過大學法"},{"start":7264.395,"end":7290.89,"text":"有偏鄉地區的教育發展條例有數位素養還有包括營養午餐的專報校職會的專報那教育部呢今天也一度希望安排次長列席不過要不是我們在野黨堅持部長列席我想您可能要神隱超過百天部長您覺得我們剛剛提到這些議題怎麼樣過去這一百天都不重要嗎所以神隱百日嗎"},{"start":7292.225,"end":7319.386,"text":"跟委員報告絕對不是不重要那我也一定程度的尊重體制就是說在我們過去許多有一些專報大概就是次長們這個來協助那跟團隊來協助那也感謝委員的體諒我也確實也我從來不敢怠惰事實上也跟利用有一些空閒的時間我去了解地方包含剛才我也跟委員講"},{"start":7320.687,"end":7335.769,"text":"譬如說我們到偏鄉去有一些老師他們特別提到校長提到就是說他們有這一個安全的保險過去是我們辦法是只有到都市來到偏鄉山區教書才有"},{"start":7336.149,"end":7353.996,"text":"安全的這個特別的一個保險我們現在也把它重篡了解所有的偏鄉讓它都能夠雖然它有這個偏鄉上的移動但是還是暴露在一個相對危險的一個場域下我們也來精進幫老師這個保險幫老師蓋宿舍幫老師等等的這些東西"},{"start":7358.798,"end":7382.917,"text":"您說明的很好啊多來嘛這個溝通不是很棒嗎那為什麼過去這一百天將近一百天這麼少的時間出現在這呢希望您下次多來好不好我想我們這是您的職責啊您剛剛提到的很多有這麼多專業的幕僚大家都可以協助您啊在立院這裡我們希望人民直接要跟您溝通嘛這很合理吧 對吧"},{"start":7384.518,"end":7411.308,"text":"謝謝委員尤其您最近登上媒體版面很可惜的還不是教育的議題是政治的事件被對岸列入黑名單一個教育部長如果專心的做教育的議題誰會把你弄到什麼黑名單呢你應該是在人民最愛的暖心的名單裡頭這真的是非常可惜我想我們都有替部長發聲但是部長你有替全國的師生發聲嗎"},{"start":7412.828,"end":7438.813,"text":"我們其實沒有把您列入黑名單我一直念之再之對嘛 您是念之再之而且還很優雅嘛您曾經說您是優雅的台灣人我真的是希望您是一位優雅的教育部長拿出教育部應有的立場跟堅持要捍衛我們師生應有的言論自由 遷徙自由千萬不要淪為陸委會或其他部會的下級機關"},{"start":7440.453,"end":7461.319,"text":"您是教育部長顯然不是政治部長我們也希望我一路走來就是身為一個政務官我依法行政如果您做得非常好您就著重在教育的議題誰會把你放到政治的黑名單裡我不曉得中國他到底怎麼樣一個想法您知道您有一些政治的言論"},{"start":7462.779,"end":7483.168,"text":"所以没有关系这个大家各自可以开放讨论但没有关系希望您多来我们多探讨教育的议题就不会有人把你放到什么政治黑名单我们首先还是要感谢教育部其实去年31号10月31号宣布调整教师终点费跟导师费"},{"start":7484.528,"end":7509.183,"text":"這次中央發紅包地方買單50%不過沒有關係有一個開始也是好的但是因為現在不確定教育部的撥款期程各地方政府的進度不一樣比如說新北已經用人事費用將導師費調整成4000塊但終點費還沒有跟上一些教育財政比較困難的縣市則是兩者都不敢調整"},{"start":7510.223,"end":7528.838,"text":"是不是部長這個新年禮物發了但是作業期程不太明朗各地方政府步調不一很可能會造成教育現場混亂部長可不可以在此明確說明這次調整教師終點費導師費中央的作業期程到底怎麼樣教育部經費預計何時可以撥給地方政府"},{"start":7529.645,"end":7553.899,"text":"什麼時候跟委員報告 中央已經播了已經播了 全部都播了地方都收到了我們在1月15號1月15號以前是回溯的還是回溯 然後我們1月15號以前不用領據 我們就先播的方式1月15號好 所以我想這個部分也希望這個中央要做到的責任一定要及時做到不然現場可能會有點混亂再我們來談一下午餐的議題我們談一下午餐的議題"},{"start":7557.565,"end":7576.804,"text":"其實大家都在關心大家的健康過去一般性補助款大概一年補助地方政府74億近來有非常多的縣市開始宣布營養午餐免費現在有22個縣市有兩個縣市還沒有跟進但是各地我們是各自予以尊重的"},{"start":7577.364,"end":7599.387,"text":"不過中央需要負擔的金額是大幅減少的情況之下也希望教育部在這個議題上可以更加的中立因為這是學童的健康日本 韓國都透過明確的法規來規範中央地方的經費分擔的比例比如說食材費是家長或地方負擔人事費用可能是由中央政府來買單"},{"start":7601.188,"end":7614.696,"text":"既然目前大部分的餐費可能地方支應中央可能就可以透過其他方面的補助來拉近財政不佳的縣市和大城市之間的距離我們有看到教育部其實在109年跟110年都有編列12.5億還有32億來補助廚房的相關設備"},{"start":7623.001,"end":7649.195,"text":"廚房的廚工工作量很重可能找不到人等等的隨著科技發展其實AI 科技 智能 智慧都可以來幫助我想國科會也有打造AI的中央廚房更在今年年底前完工您剛有提到AIAI如果只是做這個recipe當然很棒但是硬體的部分其實智慧導入"},{"start":7650.536,"end":7665.223,"text":"廚房新的設備的建置或改善講出辦法其實是中央可以來做的上一次補助相關的設備已經是五年前了這個部長有沒有機會針對這個部分再來提出一些補助跟講出的辦法"},{"start":7667.731,"end":7682.487,"text":"我想謝謝委員這也是一個很好的例子就是說中央跟地方比較大型的中央廚房的這個我想我們可以來合作可以來研議一下好不好那研議的結果多久可以跟我們分享一下"},{"start":7684.19,"end":7705.237,"text":"一個月好 一個月 謝謝我想接著想來討論廚餘的問題其實每天校園的廚餘有500公噸2023年調查報告七成的菜色都有剩下來的問題當然大家吃不一定全部吃光光但是剩食也確實滿多的"},{"start":7706.798,"end":7733.851,"text":"一年光食材本身的浪費高達22億元新台幣加上這個農業部門可能完全禁止廚藥養豬後續的廚餘成本又追加上去可能又耗費掉很多資源現在根據這個午餐制度其實就是要進行一個相關的公餐但部長您看一下左邊其實本來我們的目標值是說每週供應三份乳品"},{"start":7734.851,"end":7756.838,"text":"結果實際是右邊的變成什麼呢比較高價的東西可能買的不多或買不起結果為了滿足這個目標值結果怎麼樣變成多吃兩碗飯這沒有不好但是這個飯的量可能就過多就剩下來的可能就多了造成剩食浪費"},{"start":7758.278,"end":7785.459,"text":"我們看到美國兩週前有公布這個新的飲食指南核心從熱量計算改成重視食物品質衛福部的時部長也在受訪的時候說會修訂每日飲食指南第二季會發布不管衛福部做得怎麼樣其實我們發現我們教育部還有我們的整個教育環境在公餐制度上的規定其實相對矢板請問部長這未來能不能有一點彈性空間"},{"start":7786.3,"end":7800.812,"text":"不要拘泥在熱量食材倒數上的限制主要要兼顧孩童健康同時重視食物的品質同時也要減少剩食的浪費這個部分有沒有在研議"},{"start":7802.319,"end":7822.561,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心我們的做法跟想法跨部會的合作都跟委員的想法是一致的我們就希望他吃得健康也不要有剩食不要浪費所以不要拘泥在熱量食材倒數未來應該會有一些新的目標吧不然這個目標看起來打不到會有一些問題"},{"start":7823.662,"end":7840.745,"text":"我們會跟國建署一起來合作好那我們之後會跟部會來緊密溝通那另外呢剛剛您自己也提到了有這個AI協助午餐開菜單這個也是不錯啦那我們AI基本法也剛通過啦那當然也不要做排擠掉"},{"start":7841.386,"end":7867.395,"text":"人類的工作但是AI來協助是很好的現在這個已經是五月份了去年五月這個運用上面有沒有什麼具體的成果可以給我們來拍拍手鼓掌一下比如說廚藝有沒有減少學童滿意度有沒有上升有沒有具體的目標或成效這個部分有沒有現在要說的還是整理出來我們會後再把相關的一些資訊提供給委員"},{"start":7868.115,"end":7884.43,"text":"好 希望有好的成效就可以分享啦那最後我想請教一下部長關於教育部版的這個午餐法的問題第十一條關於中央應召開學校午餐諮詢會的成員代表"},{"start":7885.919,"end":7911.94,"text":"那你們列了很多啊這個中央衛生福利啊農業啊環境啊採購主管機關啊採購很重要列上去地方主管機關教育營養保健食品衛生相關的專家學者但是部長你有沒有發現啊學校你們自己的文件都寫得很清楚所謂的學校"},{"start":7913.223,"end":7934.595,"text":"有三個很重要的成員 親 師 生老師在哪裡 家長在哪裡 學生在哪裡家長在哪裡 老師在哪裡 學生在哪裡"},{"start":7938.12,"end":7965.712,"text":"不過我想謝謝謝謝部長很仔細的看啦你自己也嚇一跳對不對你自己也嚇一跳對不對這是你教育部版建議的文字啊過去大概都是從教育部版午餐法上面專業的想像但是我們怎麼樣把利害關係人剛才所講的親師生也能夠有一定程度讓他們能夠意見能夠我想謝謝委員的提醒對啊然後你說親師生午餐團散"},{"start":7967.322,"end":7991.908,"text":"團善業者在哪裡業者在哪裡業者在哪裡業者裡邊事實上他也包含這個在保健食品營養等等的所以部長教育部很專業我們都認同但是法條很重要所以一定要能夠落地"},{"start":7992.932,"end":8011.287,"text":"不要在高空建個樓閣沒有辦法落地午餐法大家都很期待結果午餐諮詢會議如果沒有家長代表沒有學生代表沒有教師代表也沒有營養師代表也沒有團善業者的代表"},{"start":8012.669,"end":8028.47,"text":"這是怎麼樣落地呢學生是不一定有在地方裡面但是老師啊或者怎麼樣我想營養師這一定有的學生意見重不重要當然重要對嘛那學生有代表很自然啊我們也在我們也通過青年基本法啦對不對我同意"},{"start":8029.951,"end":8041.598,"text":"這個委員的一個說法就是說我們把利害關係人的權益他的想法看怎麼樣能夠落地不要繞一圈嘛不用直接說透過誰誰誰可以代表進來就代表進來好不好這些人我們剛剛提到的才是最直接碰觸到營養午餐的人"},{"start":8050.023,"end":8076.364,"text":"如果教育部排除這些人進入午餐政策的規劃和推動怎麼可能規劃出符合食物的政策到時候可能又有很多食物上的問題啦我們真的是非常希望能夠跟部長一起來合作也希望部長暖心的回饋在法條的建議上面好不好 請部長好好思考 可以嗎謝謝 謝謝委員提醒 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":8078.171,"end":8091.738,"text":"好謝謝葛如君委員那部長署長請回座現在休息10分鐘之後請張雅玲委員準備質詢謝謝"},{"start":8707.358,"end":8718.367,"text":"好 我們現在繼續開會請張雅玲委員質詢現在主席 我們有請部長有請鄭部長委員長"},{"start":8727.213,"end":8743.503,"text":"好部長好就是我想這個在今天要討論營養午餐那前陣子這個台北市長蔣萬安市長他也就率先提出了這個免費午餐的免費午餐這件事情那其實我收到非常多基層的家長來跟我表達一個擔心就是說"},{"start":8744.964,"end":8767.361,"text":"擔心不知道到底吃什麼會吃到什麼東西然後特別是說小朋友又在發育階段其實非常在乎的就是吃的內容到底是什麼有沒有辦法很健康有沒有辦法幫助他們發育成長那也擔心說現在其實已經大家也知道嘛我們的廚餘大概一年就500噸了如果今天是免費的會不會到更多的這個廚餘所以"},{"start":8770.302,"end":8790.367,"text":"今天想要跟部長來討論就是說我們如何在現在的這個狀態之下那有沒有一些部應該要來強力要求的跟監督的就是說我們現在來看一下這個是韓國的一個案例就是韓國在2011年的時候"},{"start":8791.167,"end":8803.325,"text":"他其实也提出了一个免费学校公餐但是他们发现了有一个学术研究的sustainability他发现就是说今天我们如果把这个预算"},{"start":8804.861,"end":8827.301,"text":"拿走去做營養午餐的話那他其實上對於體育教育的經費就發現了顯著的一個縮減因為在為了支援免費午餐的一個龐大的開銷他必須要去挪用原本屬於校務基金的體育相關的項目那當時這個數據也可以看到每所學校每年從校務基金提取的體育資金大概是310萬韓元那"},{"start":8831.084,"end":8857.218,"text":"這個實際的影響到是什麼是學生的健康的負面影響在全面實施免費午餐的學校裡面來看學生的體適能呢是下降了從這個優良成績裡面下降了1.5%所以我們非常清楚的看到如果我們沒有想清楚就去做這件事情的話呢它很有可能會去排擠到我們教育其他很重要的一些預算"},{"start":8858.879,"end":8881.111,"text":"那我想說以台北市來說也花25億元來推動營養午餐的話呢它有可能的抉擇會是什麼這個我想部長也非常清楚的就是說以台北市現在其實每一年是有編列40億來面對這些老舊校舍的修繕跟改建那國中小校舍大概已經在台北市已經有533棟已經超過屋齡50年"},{"start":8884.753,"end":8902.552,"text":"如果今天蔣市長願意把經費投注到老舊校舍的修建的話那這個速度就會更快學校的設備也就會更好那我想問就是說從部長您的觀點來看您覺得您會如何建議呢"},{"start":8904.759,"end":8921.497,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實這個地方願意勇於承擔這不是壞事但是我們確實會在意就是這一個營養午餐的提供的一個品質所以我們目前來講從教育部我們要確保他是不是使用山上EQ國有食材在地"},{"start":8922.077,"end":8939.695,"text":"然后健康新鲜等等的那第二个我们当然也会从专业里边来提供许多营养午餐的一些营养成分等等的一些协助第三个就是说在整个里边我们会透过一定的一个检核的机制希望去了解各地方"},{"start":8941.024,"end":8966.864,"text":"政府的這個地方的這個營養協同營養午餐實施的一個情況陳儒委員剛才提醒得很好如果你這個地方要把營養午餐當成你施政的一個城市治理的政策我們樂觀其成這是地方自治法授予的權利但是你要確保品質那如果因為這樣而造成協同的一個健康影響他的這個體育因為帶來的健康的一個這個"},{"start":8969.56,"end":8986.661,"text":"下降那我想這並不是我們所樂見的那這個部分我想我們會中央跟地方來合作來把那個請和機制我們也會充分的讓地方知道我們是在意你這一個當然我們尊重地方"},{"start":8988.15,"end":9014.618,"text":"這個的前線但是我們一定會在這個品質上一定會把關了解 我想這個家長最擔心的還是品質這件事情是對 那特別是說因為我這邊剛好也收到一份資料就是說我們台北市的這個特教生跟疑似生的比例其實是相當高的大概百分之占全體的學生百分之七所以我想如果說我們今天在整體教育來盤點的話"},{"start":9016.138,"end":9028.981,"text":"家長應該會更希望說我們是不是可以有校舍的增建加速或者是說可以得到更好的師資對家長來說可能會是更關鍵的一件事情不過我還是要講回來品質的部分品質的部分我也是覺得說我們可能有幾抱歉喔"},{"start":9030.899,"end":9046.869,"text":"我想有三點是需要教育部來積極的把關那在可能相關的草案上面應該要再來研擬就是說針對於制度性的營養標準專業人力的配置以及食源來源的控管也就是剛剛部長所講的三張EQ那這個版本其實是我們參考了這個"},{"start":9048.61,"end":9070.32,"text":"美國的國家學校午餐法他其實是有設定一個最低的營養成分標準我們現在我們現在雖然說我們也有一個相關的可能說我們是說我們要有食物內容及營養基準我們算有強調多樣的食材均衡營養等等可是我們其實沒有一個統一的"},{"start":9071.801,"end":9098.839,"text":"执行的统一性跟监督的力度也没有一个完整的一个营养成分的标准所以呢我想这个部分其实是要再来努力的去强化因为才能够去确保小朋友吃进去的东西是有符合到一个营养标准的那再来就是说专业人员的定期把关因为目前其实说我想这个部长都非常清楚了就是营养师的人力短缺目前呢根据营养师工会的一个资料就是说目前大概是一笔"},{"start":9101.74,"end":9120.371,"text":"全台灣的中小學大概有177萬人可是總共只有700個專業營養師現在台北市有94所學校本來應該是要應聘94位營養師可是他們只聘了36位所以等於只有補齊了38%的一個應聘需要"},{"start":9123.991,"end":9145.829,"text":"那根據現在的學校衛生法規定只有40班以上才需要配置一個營養師可是也只有22%的國小達到這樣子的門檻所以這告訴我們的是什麼學校本來就沒有一個法定的很多學校沒有法定必備的營養師那剛剛講的是品質接下來就是營養師如何來協助這件事情所以我想問一下在我們的新版"},{"start":9146.75,"end":9154.619,"text":"是不是會將營養師的人力比進行一個比較明確的規範那比例又是多少是500比1還是550比1可不可以請教一下部長我們現在的一個設計是550配一個是不是請署長"},{"start":9165.031,"end":9192.651,"text":"好 可以 我們簡單說明好不好簡單說明兩點第一個就是目前公職的部分550比1那也跟營養師聯合全聯會做個溝通他們建議有一些小校或比較偏鄉的那要顧慮因為用人數算可能算不到沒有辦法幫助到所以這些我們會在修專法的時候的條文跟委員一起來探討所以兩點第一點就是人數上是550比1第二點要顧慮到比較特殊情形對 沒錯是"},{"start":9195.25,"end":9204.316,"text":"好 那這個部分的話就是在現在會在專法的版本上面去做一個調整嗎因為剛剛是聽說好像是在專法上面要再來討論"},{"start":9206.144,"end":9224.912,"text":"所以現在是所以剛才部長他事前就有開會如果專法一直在處理的過程中不能等那現在地方政府跟我們會就一些措施性來努力就如以往我們會聚在食材上一直努力那這一波可能會在人事上大家一起來想"},{"start":9225.452,"end":9249.597,"text":"好 了解那接下來還有一個部分就是在於三張EQ何去何從我覺得這個也是蠻關鍵的地方因為我們過去是每年38億由教育部來補助我們的地方但是還是回到才化法才化法已經撥給各地的縣市政府自行運用所以未來除非我們是法律明確有規範不然可能"},{"start":9250.421,"end":9272.314,"text":"地方政府就不會依循這個原則來採購循環我們確實今年我們去查地方是不是也確實的在15年跟14年有把這樣一個331Q的經費編在這個年度的預算所以是已經在盤點了嗎那是不是可以讓我們知道這個盤點的結果大概什麼時候可以知道"},{"start":9273.715,"end":9297.897,"text":"今天下班前給委員好 謝謝那再來還有接下來要回到這個校園這個不適任教師的解聘辦法那我想部長應該已經很清楚的知道我們1月15號老師們還要再走上街頭在抗議那我想要針對一個我一直在強調也一直在爭取的一件事情就是很多的老師其實進入校師會議之後最後他其實是"},{"start":9299.315,"end":9309.93,"text":"沒事的他其實是無辜的可是因為這整個過程之中其實他要常可能經過不是數個月而已有時候甚至到一年的時間其實非常長的那我不曉得說"},{"start":9311.616,"end":9339.679,"text":"我們現在在這個名譽上面因為老師在這個過程之中可能會被講說他做了什麼事情然後他會有很多的傳言出來其實是影響到他的名譽那我會認為說我們應該要有一些協助的機制可是我們現在其實並沒有任何名譽回覆或實際的補償的機制那你們一直跟我們說在研議那我想要知道何時會研議完成那是否有一個明確的時程呢"},{"start":9341.175,"end":9356.948,"text":"我想跟委員報告確實有很多的委員也都在關心我們如果被冤枉我的態度將心比心如果被冤枉我事實上可能我們現場的老師他們事實上比我還更優雅"},{"start":9357.668,"end":9385.775,"text":"以我的个性我大概很难优雅所以我们事实上一直在努力那全序部这边我们也在积极在沟通全序部这边说不定如果从法令上源头上来来跟着改那人种这边大概在人事里边因为我们现在有许多的法律公教是绑在一起的我们希望能够用最短的时间里边能够把这样的一个法令能够建立共识然后修改法令能够"},{"start":9386.235,"end":9414.513,"text":"对老师的权益有多一份的一些这个保障包含民意的恢复以上那我想问一下这大概是我们还要多久的时间可以有一个比较明确的那因为我觉得我认为啦因为这个制度就是在进行嘛现在就是还是会有校师会议那现在如果我们没有任何的积极的作为的话我觉得还是会有很多老师那我们可不可以有一个明确的时程啊那我们应该利用这个机会跟教师团体说我们当然现在的法令没有办法一次到位嗯"},{"start":9414.813,"end":9429.905,"text":"我们修法一直在往那个方向走就是说给一些时间我们一定会有一个能够更支撑老师能够安心留在学校亲师合作去指导小孩子我想那是我们乐见的"},{"start":9430.472,"end":9446.834,"text":"好 那我想這個是不是一個月之後來跟我們報告一下現在的進度好不好可以啊可以嗎 一個月之後跟我們報告一下我們會跟人事單位來跟進度進度的部分那最後一個部分是想要在講特教加擠回溯的部分"},{"start":9449.332,"end":9468.844,"text":"我其實在1月10號質詢之後現在也又超過10天了那我認為特教家級真的是對老師來說我們去年就已經承諾可是在今年2月1號才執行我認為對老師來說其實不是很尊重啦所以上次是次長有回覆我說剩下四個縣市那我想要再來做一下進度我們現在又過了兩個禮拜之後我們現在溝通的狀態是怎麼樣呢"},{"start":9471.118,"end":9490.54,"text":"我想特教家籍這個部分確實這一個國教署做了相當的努力也有一定程度的獲得到院長的一個支持才可能在今年的2月1號通過那當然這個建立的過程裡面地方政府事實上還有面臨到許多不一致的一個看法"},{"start":9491.181,"end":9509.523,"text":"我想这里边也要谢谢我们彭署长他跟地方上的扯充那当然我们也知道特教老师他们希望说能够像这一个我们其他中小学老师能够中点会或者家里能够恢复能够追溯到这个9月1号这我想"},{"start":9510.003,"end":9527.313,"text":"我們來演繹這個確實它有一定的一些挑戰跟難度有啦 因為上次我們問的時候次長是說他們剩下四個縣市嘛那我想問的就是說過了兩個禮拜我們現在溝通的狀況如何呢還是依然在卡還是怎麼樣是不是可以簡單回覆一下"},{"start":9528.393,"end":9551.498,"text":"跟委員報告兩點第一個那次跟委員報告的是去年在協調的時候有四個縣市到六個縣市需要進一步協商後來大家都同意覺得這是好事那因為這個新的變化往前提的這件事是不是給我們一點時間1月7號算一個月嘛那時候是不是給我們2月7號前跟您回報好不好好那我們就2月7號的時候再來追一下好不好謝謝"},{"start":9553.817,"end":9575.681,"text":"好謝謝張雅琳委員那部長署長請回座請陳秀寶委員質詢謝謝主席請鄭部長有請鄭部長"},{"start":9585.643,"end":9608.069,"text":"委員好部長好其實在本席進行質詢之前我還是要針對今天排定這個專報有發表一些我的看法今天的專報其實原定是那個劉昭偉原定在去年的11月27號排第一次排審的時候呢當時教文的委員就有表示說因為才化法的影響希望教育部這邊能夠跟很完善的先跟地方做充分的溝通"},{"start":9608.709,"end":9622.109,"text":"那在12月24號第二次主條的時候呢教文的委員們還是一樣也針對在人力啊設備經費等相關的配置呢要求地方政府跟我們我們必須要跟地方政府有共識之後來進行專報然後擇期再審查"},{"start":9624.412,"end":9642.464,"text":"那从12月24号到今天1月19号我不太确定说这两个礼拜三个礼拜的时间教育部是不是已经跟地方政府有共识了那如果今天的专报我们要聚焦在经费的分配跟权责的划分觉得说现在也没有什么实质讨论的进展以及效益"},{"start":9642.924,"end":9667.797,"text":"但我尊重說劉昭偉的排案權也希望教育部等一下就是好好的說明一下這兩週實際上跟地方政府在經費跟權責你們有怎樣的共識的進展首先我們先來關心營養午餐經費權責如何分配才能夠保障學生的權益這兩天很熱烈的在討論的就是台北市他有提出免費的營養午餐之後後續有許多縣市都跟進了"},{"start":9668.177,"end":9697.523,"text":"那目前有20個縣市總共有20個縣市會來推營養午餐免費以前是有10個縣市那在這幾天跟進了之後已經來到20個縣市那這個部分本席相信教育部的態度應該就是說尊重地方自治營養午餐就是屬於地方自治的項目首先本席先請教那麼今年教育部115年會在針對之前補助營養午餐相關的這個項目會還是一樣會補助給地方政府嗎"},{"start":9699.895,"end":9718.855,"text":"基本上根文報告已經這些錢就是等於都直接撥到這個地方所以我們大概在所以你應該就是說以115年度教育部所編的預算這個部分不在教育部直接給教育單位的補助是在統籌款裡面"},{"start":9720.296,"end":9736.534,"text":"所以说如果不是像以前一样是直接补助给教育局处的话多数的地方政府还是可以推免费的营养午餐表示现行的营养午餐的要求的相关的规范地方是有能力有余裕来执行来负担的"},{"start":9737.014,"end":9761.474,"text":"那如果说未来才化法施行地方政府的裁员更增加应该也会有更多的预算来进行相关的这些配置那所以本席认为说教育部你们就做好原则性的规范跟制定相关的标准我们来把关品质跟食材的安全让地方政府可以依循然后也让他们有因地制宜的空间这个部长您觉得呢"},{"start":9761.894,"end":9786.722,"text":"是我想謝謝委員這個的提醒我們確實是如同委員所提的我們就是在朝那個方向在這個建立規範包含專業的提供包含確保這個三商EQ各地方縣市政府能夠落實然後以及在整個食安裡邊我們也會定期的去查核然後做資訊的一些揭露"},{"start":9787.162,"end":9794.37,"text":"好 那第二個我想請問教育部最近一次與地方政府針對營養午餐召開會議是在什麼時候"},{"start":9797.659,"end":9819.619,"text":"跟委員報告在上週大概我們剛才委員問到三個單位那當時有答應委員會我們分別都有進行包含營養師全聯會包含地方政府包含統餐供應業者跟餐廚供應業者三個單位我們都在那有沒有什麼達成針對這些經費有沒有怎樣的共識"},{"start":9820.519,"end":9846.036,"text":"地方政府的部分对于人事经费的部分我们三项都分别谈分别谈大体上的确还是在虽然他们有一些统筹的经费但仍然希望教育部能够对局处这个层次了解之后给他们在预算上能够显示回编到114等等对业者的部分希望在未来的厨余的处理"},{"start":9846.676,"end":9868.213,"text":"或是相關的未來免費之後的品質大家希望能夠有一個共識跟營養的基準跟要求品質的做法那跟營養師全聯會的部分剛剛有提到比例之外也關注到公辦公營之外能不能未來逐年有一些計畫包含太小的學校怎麼樣聯合共參"},{"start":9870.676,"end":9882.355,"text":"那么就是针对这三个部分我们有大概的去谈那刚刚讲到了县市他们是支持营养师的人力的配置但是这个经费市市也是希望是中央来移住"},{"start":9884.637,"end":9900.224,"text":"這一點的部分550基本上大家沒有特別的不同的意見但是經費上的確這就是如去年跟委員報告的還需要繼續來所以說以縣市的看法的態度來講他們對經費上我們"},{"start":9902.945,"end":9925.946,"text":"等於是跟教育部現在是沒有一個共識的交集就是覺得說人力配置是需要的但是經費他還是希望教育部來出那第三個部分我想提到的是現有的規範包含三張EQ的部分鼓勵使用國產食材國產豬肉這些相關的規範都是持續的運作而且也是作為教育部來考核辦理營養午餐的基準"},{"start":9926.627,"end":9950.052,"text":"那目前呢地方縣市呢符合相關規定規範都繼續在辦理所以本席有點不能理解為什麼不能等才化法確定事實之後再來進行相關經費的討論那未來經費就是都給地方之後教育部我們會不會針對就是地方營養午餐來辦理相關的這個獎勵機制就是說他們辦理的這個狀況我們有個獎勵的機制我們這個機制會怎麼運作"},{"start":9955.353,"end":9982.163,"text":"謝謝委員的這個指導我們確實也朝那個方向就是說未來這個地方自治的一個權限這個營養午餐回到地方嘛那我們怎麼樣透過監督透過專業的協助透過資訊的揭露然後能夠去理清表揚好的一個縣市我們確實會朝那個獎勵的一個方向提供一些相對的一些這個經費來協助地方"},{"start":9984.384,"end":9998.222,"text":"所以教育部现在就是如同我刚刚所询问的这个你会有一个相关的一个奖励的机制在他们办理营养物它这个部分那那个比较详细的办法你们现在还没有演绎出来还在讨论中"},{"start":9999.236,"end":10020.039,"text":"这个部长在上上周就有交代那我们会在一个月内有一个草案给部长那届时也看部长在怎么样跟委员做一个沟通如果有相关的进度也希望给我们叫我们委员会那最后我要强调就是说我们都支持营养午餐一定要有一个专法来处理但是因为目前才化法还没有"},{"start":10021.14,"end":10035.89,"text":"定下就是相关的大家对这个有共识而且现在现有的规范是持续在运作的所以我觉得我们应该等财化法确定的事情之后再来做相关经费跟权责的讨论才能够比较确实的审查"},{"start":10036.69,"end":10057.398,"text":"那之前本席再質詢的時候就問過我們要怎樣去監督或是規定地方政府要將預算有多少的比例用在教育經費窮不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子這個大家都一直在強調但我們擔心就是說才化法施行之後理論上地方政府會得到這個經費的挹注"},{"start":10058.598,"end":10083.676,"text":"但是這個經費是不是確實的用在教育的項目所以現在很多地方的局處長會擔心以前是很明確的由教育部來補助給教育局處的這些經費未來統籌給了縣市之後他們也不知道自己的局處能夠分到多少經費在教育的項目那會不會因為縣府有其他的規劃其他項目排擠到教育的預算"},{"start":10084.176,"end":10106.33,"text":"所以这个是大家其实包括家长都非常的担心我们不只是担心营养午餐还有我们很多学校相关的我们一些设施设备要改善的项目那这个部分呢希望教育部也是可以针对地方的这些项目呢给予一定程度的建议就是说你们要有多少的比例的预算用在教育的经费"},{"start":10106.71,"end":10120.55,"text":"而且我希望說如果未來有相關競爭型計畫或是獎勵的機制我們應該將地方政府分配給教育預算的比例納入審核的項目部長您覺得"},{"start":10122.531,"end":10137.462,"text":"謝謝委員確實委員這一個看到了我們怎麼樣去確保品質一個非常好的一個方向我們確實也會就像剛才我在跟其他委員報告就是我們331Q我們在15年我們會去查"},{"start":10138.263,"end":10158.921,"text":"去檢視22個地方縣市他在331Q裡面是不是跟114年所編的預算一樣我們因應當時財務法從去年開始我們就跟地方教育局處所長也希望他們知道說當每一年我們中央補助給地方的當這個統籌分配款直接改為整比到地方那"},{"start":10160.023,"end":10176.785,"text":"縣市首長當然有他的城市發展施政的一些方向跟重點但是我們也希望教育的這個經費能夠要一定的還是要框在教育局而不是因為這樣所以我們會透過考核檢視的一個機制去"},{"start":10177.346,"end":10201.897,"text":"除了說建議我們希望說他保留一定的比例在教育這方面的之外呢除了剛剛講營養午餐還有一些學校相關的設施設備是需要更新的改善的所以這個我會希望說我們是建議說我們要把地方政府他分配給教育局處相關單位這個經費的比例我們要納入是一個審核的項目之一這個請教育部可以審酌"},{"start":10203.058,"end":10220.456,"text":"那接下来我要跟您谈到就是关于校事会议这个办法修正的部分那有教师团体是很强烈的表达强烈的诉求他们在1月25号会到教育部前面来抗议要求废除校事会议我想知道教育部你们目前的态度跟立场是什么"},{"start":10221.428,"end":10244.701,"text":"我想謝謝委員的一個指導校制會議在108年這個訂定這個辦法本來我們原來的一個制度就是有一個校教評會但是後來因為在當時的時空裡面校園這個發生了一些特定的一些這個事件所以有更多的人會期待說是不是能夠讓"},{"start":10245.842,"end":10253.653,"text":"一方面不要影響到學校的正常的一個教學但是對那些不適應老師有一個校事會議能夠專門的客觀的團體來客觀的人專業團這個人員來協助學校解決這個問題"},{"start":10261.344,"end":10279.649,"text":"但是我們從去年所看到的這麼一整年裡面確實有如同這個教師團體提到的小案大辦原來學校老師只是一個班級經營上的疏漏他事實上可以經過提醒那就改善了結果也都大小事都"},{"start":10280.349,"end":10300.865,"text":"所以其实部长您很了解说在现场在我们学校里面发生的这样子的现况那其实一个办法的起因一定是有缘由我们当初的初中是为了协助但是到现在变成是一种困扰是一种干扰甚至是对教师是一种伤害的时候我们就必须要做修正"},{"start":10301.405,"end":10326.391,"text":"那在校士會議的辦法修正公布之前教育部有告訴本席就說你們有多次跟教師團體家長團體教育團體縣市政府以及現場的教師們溝通那我想知道說你們這個溝通大概是一個怎樣的狀況是不是大部分的團體都有支持四次修正的版本嗎我想跟我們報告民主法治的一個社會當然"},{"start":10328.018,"end":10336.403,"text":"有部分的一些團體或者人員他希望一次到位釜底抽薪就是把整個校士會廢除掉"},{"start":10337.062,"end":10364.421,"text":"或者这里边谈到说这一个有受到阴亡的这一些权利权利怎么样去恢复这个确实第一个我们要考量所有来自于台湾的各个不同的团体包含怎么样去确保这个儿少的一个权益包含怎么样去兼顾这一个确保老师的一个专业的一个教学我想这一个我们以现阶段来讲我只能讲"},{"start":10365.899,"end":10373.811,"text":"目標大家是一樣的能夠回顧到由學校校教評會來處理這個事情但是以現階段我們全橫"},{"start":10376.255,"end":10399.913,"text":"社会的一个各个不同的团体的一个声音那我们做了这样一个这个现有的这个1月12号公布的一个调这个修正这个办法当然没有办法一步到位我非常我感到抱歉但是它可能是目前我们在逐渐迈向亲私合作回悟到校园有一个更"},{"start":10400.794,"end":10416.779,"text":"友善的更好的一個教學學習的環境這是我們必須要努力的謝謝部長本期也理解到我們教育部的難處啦其實你需要整合不同團體的意見來研擬這個政策那我想這次修正的方向呢其實比較多的團體是"},{"start":10418.72,"end":10440.825,"text":"支持所謂的潛移預防機制跟匿名原則不受理這個方向那也有很多團體堅持就說也有團體堅持說要廢除消失會議所以基本上你要說有共識是很難但是就是說如何兼顧大家的意見來納入之後能去檢討出一個就是比較大家可以接受的這個方向"},{"start":10441.525,"end":10461.762,"text":"那這邊我要提醒教育部其實我們應該持續的追蹤就是說關於我們這個辦法修正之後校師會議對教師造成的影響必須有個檢討的機制修正之後跟修正前當然一定會有一些改善但是這個程度到底"},{"start":10462.222,"end":10490.163,"text":"符不符合教师的需求刚才我有听您回复亚林委员说说你们在一个月会有一个进度所以这个部分也是督促你们应该尽快的研议就是说教师被冤枉平反后的相关补偿的方案因为这个不只是他们权益还有他们的名誉这个部分教师都非常的重视那你刚才回复的是说一个月会有进度可以报告"},{"start":10491.776,"end":10508.154,"text":"这一个进度一个月就是说跟委员报告但是当然进度里边我们会希望当然如果有好的结果当然这是大家所期待的但是如果没有就是说至少我们会把那个进度阶段性的进度跟委员做这样一个"},{"start":10508.234,"end":10532.21,"text":"是那現在就是持續的跟各團體溝通是那我們也持續的來修正到底這個修正的辦法有沒有適切的符合現場的需求之後呢我們就是持續的來檢討那你們剛剛講的意思就是說一個月就是會報告到底是進度如何是那持續的來將這個能夠最好有共識然後最好有進度這個部分呢當然校事會議"},{"start":10533.29,"end":10542.017,"text":"這一個宣布以後我們會召開公聽會我們會北中南公聽會然後也有一些指導原則然後我們也收集"},{"start":10542.95,"end":10566.239,"text":"公布以後所造成的一些現場的一些到底有多大的一些正面的影響或者還創造了一些可能負面的我們都會在這一個學期六月以後要持續的收集相關的意見七八這個暑假就會再從整體再做一個分析我們一定會滾動式的一些修正希望往好的方向也能夠讓老師安心好 謝謝校長 謝謝主席好 謝謝"},{"start":10570.02,"end":10589.387,"text":"好謝謝陳秀寶委員那官員請回座請范宇委員質詢謝謝昭緯有請部長有請鄭部長"},{"start":10605.648,"end":10634.147,"text":"委員好部長應該是快要午安了剛剛召委對您很好有讓您稍微喝一口水希望部長有機會喝到水我想剛剛我有聽到有國民黨的委員針對國台辦說您是台獨頑固分子這件事好像有所質疑我個人是非常的不能認同我覺得如果隨著國台辦"},{"start":10636.148,"end":10662.325,"text":"然后回过头来好像质疑我们的部长那不就达到国台办的目的吗我自己是认为就是部长的回应非常好因为部长有提到说对于坏邻居冠上的名称以笑置之而且回应说我是优雅的台湾人然后您谨守教育基本法的立场我想这当然是就是说我们最好的回应"},{"start":10663.125,"end":10688.623,"text":"因為如果隨著國台辦起舞那他的目的就達到了嘛所以當時記者問我的時候我也是說依照這個國台辦的標準全台灣的人都會是台獨頑固分子了因為他有任意的標準所以不應該隨他起舞所以對剛才有國民黨委員拿這個來問您的話我是非常的不能認同我在這邊也表達不同的立場"},{"start":10690.003,"end":10715.316,"text":"今天針對我們的主題之一的解聘辦法的專報想跟部長討論我想部長也有聽到剛剛很多的委員還有各界的意見我自己經歷了看這教育部整個的制度的修正真的覺得各方的意見其實常常是對立衝突的"},{"start":10715.876,"end":10744.091,"text":"我上面是就檢舉審議受理案件分流調查終局處理救濟陳情修法後各方的意見做一個整理所以這裡面有非常對立的意見包含就是還是有教師團體覺得還是沒辦法解決濫訴的問題然後違罪就是揭查那但是也有另外一方持續擔心吃案然後具名造成寒蟬效應"},{"start":10745.351,"end":10770.091,"text":"然後關於審議受理的部分非常多人覺得疊藏教屋好像雙方都認為校長變成樹木了然後有身份大於專業不具名投票 護衛不透明然後缺乏彼此的說理說服然後不受理的時候被害人的救濟很難那還有提到說各校分散其實整個受理成本很高"},{"start":10770.811,"end":10794.529,"text":"那針對案件分流的部分有各種意見包含說還是擔心小案大辦然後重案降級關於調查的部分我想部長有聽到教師團體認為說教育變司法那會還是擔心成為校長排除一級的工具那當然我們教師團體還是認為整個調查會不會專業不足然後"},{"start":10799.893,"end":10821.05,"text":"还是不管是儿童或学生权益或者是学生还是家长还是担心事事相互关于中局处理的部分其实很多人特别是教师团体会说就算没有成立也已经造成伤害那还是有学权家长或者是儿权团体觉得仍然有事事相互跟轻重的问题"},{"start":10821.71,"end":10841.795,"text":"關於救濟陳情這個部分我個人覺得教育部要積極處理就是教師程序傷害之後沒有補償那後來是冤案的救濟不管是名譽的修復實質的補償這部分已經有一些委員有提案了那我也會提我覺得這個部分也要積極的處理"},{"start":10842.955,"end":10860.021,"text":"那當然救濟成型還是有比較是學生家長團體認為被害人的救濟只能在教育體系內還是不夠的那下面是我整理的這個現況就是你們這個新修法之後有一個結構上的困境啦"},{"start":10860.721,"end":10886.171,"text":"第一個就檢舉的部分等於就是我們又要學校過濾案件又要學校保護學生它本身就是在結構上是對立的就審議受理的時候以不同身份的立場不同彼此根本就很難有共識所以最後就會變成無法彼此說服然後就要變成不具名投票了因為那個客觀上你還是要有一個答案出來嘛"},{"start":10887.051,"end":10911.245,"text":"那案件分流的話其實還是兩種情形都可能發生調查跟終局處理其實事實認定教育專業人事後果等面向說實在的很可能同時都在這裡面在影響結果那救濟的方面救濟結構的不對稱其實還是存在的因為這裡面誰的救濟管道其實是不一樣的"},{"start":10911.485,"end":10939.378,"text":"那當然現階段就是說如果教師被冤枉之後如何補償因為我們在性別工作平等法其實都有相關的設計這個教育部我覺得可能可以積極主動先處理喔那所以今天是想跟您對話我知道教育部這題很努力也很頭大我想問的是說這次修法的重點的關鍵的問題就在於說我們期待學校既要過濾案件"},{"start":10940.859,"end":10957.049,"text":"又要保護學生我現在就是說跟著走過這個過程中聽了各種聲音我其實又覺得是Mission Impossible好像是不可能的解放想問部長有沒有其他可能的解放"},{"start":10957.99,"end":10972.186,"text":"待会儿部长再答因为我时间有限我想先提提看当然我们台湾从威权走向民主其实家长老师包含学生各种团体有些观念的确是不完全一样"},{"start":10973.508,"end":10997.811,"text":"可是我们看一下其他民主国家比如说英国他们当然同样有霸凌的问题有相关的问题他们处理的层级是中央层级处理严重的案件有所谓的Teaching Regulation Agency TRC这是处理中央层级来处理严重的案件第三方监管助力而且他们也建立了明确的"},{"start":10998.371,"end":11014.002,"text":"教師專業倫理明確告訴大家怎麼樣是適當的管教方式怎麼樣是不適當的所以我們看到教師團體覺得現在好像都不能管教了動輒得救所以這是英國的處理方式"},{"start":11014.502,"end":11033.02,"text":"他除了有這個TRA嚴重的案件中央層級處理第三方監管介入之外還有明確定出教師專業倫理說什麼是對的管教方式什麼是越線的那北歐也有外部的督查波蘭則是兒童監管使"},{"start":11034.441,"end":11058.427,"text":"獨立在行政體系的國家及機構加拿大也有第三方的角色處理程序公正利益衝突等這些國家我相信他們也可能曾經走過我們現在的路我在去年11月的時候因為出國幫忙做國會外交所以當時提了一個書面總質詢"},{"start":11060.467,"end":11077.86,"text":"就是要求教育部做跨國研究那謝謝教育部有積極回應我去年12月11號教育部給我的回覆說國教院從去年12月到今年8月正在進行五個國家的研究包含英國"},{"start":11078.621,"end":11105.123,"text":"澳洲、日本、韓國、新加坡希望能夠就這個部分包含受理的分流、防度、濫訴、程序、權力結構等等消失會議這個部分那裡面至少看到英國就是我剛所講的就是嚴重的案件就是中央的那個就是TRA那我先想請問部長就是說您知不知道目前這個研究的進度如何"},{"start":11108.519,"end":11127.787,"text":"先來完成委辦那委辦之後會有一些計畫跟實際上的幾個程序那我們想說在下班前把這個文件整理給委員看還有沒有不足的地方再給我們知道好 所以就是正在進行中還並沒有因為12月開始進行現在才1月嘛"},{"start":11128.467,"end":11153.027,"text":"那我想至少我看到這個研究的範圍我覺得是相當好啦因為對我們來講就是說有沒有可能跳脫目前的制度就是說因為現在的主張也有教育團也覺得全部都廢除可是我們也知道全部都廢除那相關的學生家長就是說這個兒童的權益怎麼保障的問題所以我想"},{"start":11154.007,"end":11174.2,"text":"這次的修法我想說的不是終點應該是教育部要能夠持續研商跟蒐集意見把第三方獨立機制列為一個可能的討論因為我覺得如何能夠讓保護兒童學生跟教師權益不是對立的"},{"start":11175.181,"end":11199.581,"text":"這個部分然後回歸教育專業不要讓教師覺得就是學校變成教學領域變成司法偵查場域校士會淪為獵巫機制然後能夠不要撕裂親師信任維繫親師信任我相信是教育部最後的目標也是你們改革的初衷不知道是不是能夠就是說"},{"start":11200.802,"end":11222.086,"text":"等研究出來之後部長這邊好好的了解一下好不好謝謝委員謝謝委員的指導確實我們在全國的一個座談裡面也有人提第三獨立機制甚至有的這個地方也有一些教師的聲音這一個民間團體希望能夠由地方政府"},{"start":11222.566,"end":11248.183,"text":"来成立这样的一个机制但是看起来还有许多的一些不同意见所以是不是让我们这个新的1月12号公布的目前的办法我们走一段时间然后同时刚才委员所提的国际的经验然后我们也实际来收集这些然后再做一个阶段性的滚动修正我想我们的目标"},{"start":11248.823,"end":11271.759,"text":"跟教師團體跟家長團體跟社會的關心台灣教育的推動的團體都是一致的我們只有確保台灣的教育品質是好的我們老師能夠用專業專心來指導我們學生我們家長是放心把小孩交給學校的我想那一個是我們希望恢復到所有當時在人才便宜的一個初衷好"},{"start":11272.9,"end":11288.616,"text":"当然我想还有一些结构性的问题包含特教足够的后援师生笔这个部分教师团体觉得这个可能是一个结构上需要解决的我想这件大家都很关心的教师续聘等等的这个办法"},{"start":11289.076,"end":11317.832,"text":"那如何就像部长说的持续观察然后持续检讨那思考制度新的可能性那最后能够建立维系亲师信任然后教学真的能够就是专注教学的场域我想非常的重要好不好那部长辛苦了那我们期待这个报告如果出来之后可以先给本席一份好吗好谢谢谢谢好谢谢范瑜委员"},{"start":11319.008,"end":11334.42,"text":"那欢迎请回座现在请吴佩逸委员质询"},{"start":11349.037,"end":11350.926,"text":"好 謝謝主席我請教育部鄭部長好 請鄭部長"},{"start":11359.093,"end":11382.389,"text":"委員好部長好今天是就高中以下學校公餐飲食教育有執行的情況困難以及有沒有挑戰然後我們怎麼樣來因應尤其是中央跟地方我們在裁員補助方面的問題有一個專案報告那其實就針對這一個修法跟在執行層面可能遇到的挑戰之前好幾次的在就在這個委員會的會議當中其實已經有多"},{"start":11383.209,"end":11401.179,"text":"多所討論所以我主要還是想要請教因為之前我們知道這個教育部針對像財政還有我們政策的延續性你這個無產品質怎麼樣維持然後我們的食品衛生這個管理才是一個專業等等其實確實會遇到一些挑戰你們有做出一些說明"},{"start":11401.579,"end":11412.961,"text":"在前面幾次會議裡面我覺得好像還有更多具體的數字跟今天的這個報告比起來所以我是不是可以請部長能夠口頭比較具體的來說我們現在遇到主要的挑戰是什麼"},{"start":11414.846,"end":11434.583,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實因為過去的三張EQ是由中央來補助那這個錢下放了對偏鄉的一些經濟弱勢的學生也由中央來補助對偏鄉離島的這些的中央這個所謂的各校的這個廚房或者中央廚房這些都是由教育部"},{"start":11435.483,"end":11452.693,"text":"每一年有這個74億的這樣的一個挹注那這些錢全部到地方了那我們當然希望說地方勇於承擔也把協同的營養午餐當作他們在施政的一個重點我覺得這是應該給予肯定但是我們"},{"start":11453.493,"end":11482.746,"text":"在意的是你怎麼樣讓學童吃得健康吃得衛生吃得安全這個東西就是我們在未來中央跟地方要合作把這個監督的機制把這個專業的輔導的一個機制要還有信息的揭露然後獎勵優秀的地方政府在怎麼樣讓這一個許多的經驗能夠擴散我想這都是教育部在未來要來建立機制的也跟地方來一起來努力的"},{"start":11483.61,"end":11498.326,"text":"是剛剛提到說我們過去就有補助給地方那總共74億但是如果說因應修法的話有些項目他也會有新增的經費例如說這個營養師然後例如說我們要有專職的午餐秘書等等的"},{"start":11498.906,"end":11517.091,"text":"那最近因為台北市還有一些縣市陸續都提出說營養午餐來免費這樣的政策那家長呢很多是給予肯定也有一些家長是擔心說那這樣子品質的部分要如何來兼顧或說品質如何維持穩定這個部分的執行的做法教育部有沒有給一些相關的意見"},{"start":11518.707,"end":11543.084,"text":"我想包含譬如說這個營養師我們事實上有一些包括這個儲餐的這些人力我們也都用另外的一個重要也補助跟地方來合作來補助一些人事的一些相關的經費那當然在未來就是說我們會期待他要勇於承擔地方要勇於承擔確保這一個品質我想其他是不是"},{"start":11543.784,"end":11571.17,"text":"是因為剛剛署長有提到說其實跟團體啊專業團體還有地方政府都已經有在討論了對不對那如果以台北市的部分因為你們之前出估學校的營養師如果因應修法的話他全國總體會增加的經費大約在兩億七千多萬那麼營養午餐專職的話會新增的基費大概在五億五千多萬那如果以台北市而言的話他營養師跟專職秘書大概會新增多少錢呢有沒有一個出估"},{"start":11572.19,"end":11586.678,"text":"這個要詳細看線型配置跟目標差距一般而言一筆預算的話新北或台北大概有一定的規格以我們總數而言台北市大概會佔十分之一到十二分之一那有沒有請地方政府開始再盤點了呢"},{"start":11587.911,"end":11604.412,"text":"目前我們諮詢的幾個縣市有開始盤點但它有一點需要在專法上的確立可是在上次有答應專法可能還在研修的過程有些事不能等因此我們跟營養師全聯會就有一些了解包含"},{"start":11605.441,"end":11621.708,"text":"工作職責包含分工有一個RACI的專表大家都進行研商包含人力的配置大家都能夠有一個拉一個期程短期內努力什麼再過兩年三年五年八年要努力什麼大家都有一個共識而且定期會有一個工作小組"},{"start":11622.788,"end":11638.315,"text":"是 那這個部分因為專法至少在我們委員會這個是不分黨派的委員都支持也有提案版本那甚至也有人是我個人是希望更審慎一點在執行層面跟地方政府有更多的討論再來進行修法"},{"start":11638.655,"end":11649.125,"text":"但有些委員是希望說要加快覺得說速度是第一優先所以我希望你們跟地方政府在討論的時候尤其是這個營養師跟午餐秘書專職的話這個基本上是共識性很高那可預測的一定是新增預算經費會變多那像有些縣市已經在開始本來沒有午餐免費現在變成都免費他也會增加更多地方政府的支出"},{"start":11662.318,"end":11671.725,"text":"但請你們務必跟地方政府在討論的時候但例如我是台北市我就會很關切了那台北市政府有沒有就未來修法過後我們的這個營養師跟午餐秘書的這個經費有沒有來做預先準備因為這個是我們剛剛部長所講的你要維持品質的穩定是很重要的一個人力的因素關鍵因素所以就要拜託我們教育部跟地方政府在談的時候"},{"start":11689.319,"end":11703.653,"text":"除了午餐免費之外這個經費跟人力一定要把它預先規劃進來那再來是我自己也很關切的就是我們交易部1月14號推出了一個台灣台語輸入法的APP"},{"start":11704.953,"end":11727.165,"text":"這個應該是我們終身教育司推廣到今天大概不到一週下載次數有剛剛破了一千次我看到很多人反映說這個功能的服務實在是真的有所需要因為它的對象大概是讓說就是他口說自然語是台語但是不會使用輸入法的人他也可以就未來可以用台語"},{"start":11728.245,"end":11751.123,"text":"這個文字來進行溝通對 進行溝通跟互動所以很多人說確實有這個需求我看那個APP上面的評論有人說這真的會更多這樣子但是呢我們也很關切是也希望他推廣成效可以再普及率可以再更高一點所以我想問說我們當初這個APP設定的目標族群大概是有沒有特定例如說校園內還是說校園外的"},{"start":11754.535,"end":11776.962,"text":"跟委員報告這個事實上都包括因為我們知道我們目前在國家語言法裡面有客語這個我們有客委會原住民語也有原住民委員會那我確實進來教育部以後就是有許多的這些他的母語是台語的他們總覺得我們在推動了一個力道是不夠的所以我們再重啟一個方向"},{"start":11778.155,"end":11792.613,"text":"來普及就是說我們也在去年裡邊開始這一個跟22個地方縣市政府從幼兒園開始就有所謂的母語的一個教學這是一個另外我們也鼓勵地方縣市教育局處"},{"start":11793.334,"end":11810.661,"text":"能夠再獲得縣市首長的支持我們把退場的學校能夠變成一個主題的語言或者相圖本土語言或者本土文化的一些主題館的一個教學資源的一個善用跟建置"},{"start":11811.161,"end":11828.135,"text":"那另外一個就在中生學習裡面我們這個中生糧食廠他們也非常用心結合科技裡面就開發了這一個用台灣台語直接口說然後就可以輸進去以後它不僅是阿公阿嬤能夠很快的在這一個"},{"start":11829.036,"end":11845.036,"text":"这个APP里边就能够把话做出来能够把那个字呈现也开始去深入在各级教育里边在这个所谓的台语的一个教学我们希望当然那就只有语言的一个附赠跟文化的一个保留能够以时俱进"},{"start":11845.216,"end":11862.962,"text":"我個人是很肯定我們中宣教育師做這個台灣台語的推廣因為台灣台語也是我們的國語也是我們國家語言之一那麼過去可能因為威權時代的關係曾經有禁止母語這樣的政策那麼所以在時代上面的落差也許是啦"},{"start":11863.542,"end":11892.874,"text":"像近期就這個觀念上面立法院就發生一件事情在這個1月15號我們立法院同仁王逸川委員他在立法院的公聽會上面他使用台灣台語發言但是卻遭到與會的張亞中教授去試著說他說你說國語好不好言下之意他認為台灣台語不屬於國語才這樣說嘛對不對雖然張亞中是我過去台大政治系的教授但是我還是必須說當下他這個發言實在是很不容易說"},{"start":11893.254,"end":11912.767,"text":"可以這麼說啦因為如果一個教授還有這種觀念已經台灣台語是國語的一部分這是有法源依據的我們甚至行政院有國家語言的推廣的方案這樣的計畫那一個大學教授都不了解的話真的說一句那我們未來要怎麼去教孩子所以呢我認為教育部有這個責任"},{"start":11914.068,"end":11942.133,"text":"那這一群人也許過往因為時代背景的成因也不是很能怪他們這觀念上面可能一時還轉換不過來但我們就要去加強來推廣那事實上在立法院我們使用母語來質詢也是各黨派都有潛力的就像國民黨的徐志榮 鄭天才委員民進黨的湯惠貞 吳立華委員都曾經使用客語或是原住民族語來進行質詢我們中央部會 客委會跟園民會也曾使用母語來做"},{"start":11943.253,"end":11963.978,"text":"詢答所以這個其實是很正常的事情我覺得我們應該要多加去推廣那最後就想要請教因為我們國家語言發展整體方案這個規劃我看目前是到2026年民國115年度那麼明年我們有沒有相關因為教育部算主責是文化部但是教育部有部分負責的方案我們明年有沒有繼續延續性的計畫"},{"start":11967.875,"end":11975.113,"text":"包委員我們這部分會配合文化部有我們有那個羽化方案會持續來推經費儘可能也會盡量來提高 謝謝"},{"start":11976.246,"end":12001.407,"text":"好 這個就要請你們繼續來努力了那最後一點時間就是有關大學法的修法還是要請部長來多幫忙因為部長過去是大學校長出身所以我想您是最好的校長跟學生之間溝通的橋樑目前我看針對大學法學生有一個核心的訴求就是希望增加對學校事務的參與主要有兩點第一個就是校務會議學生代表的比例希望要增加第二點就是校長臨選委員會"},{"start":12002.788,"end":12024.129,"text":"希望要有學生的代表事實上現在公立大學當中也有29個學校校長聯學委員會是有學生代表的那因為這個禮拜即將就要是大學校長的會議我看部長其實是每年都有受邀參與的部長能不能夠幫學生也跟我們大學的校長多來溝通這兩方面的改善"},{"start":12024.789,"end":12047.022,"text":"確實我們在這一個感謝委員的關心大學法怎麼樣去讓學生有更多的一些參與確實我們在這一個星期四這個本週的星期四星期五我們也納入了這個大學法修正的一些相關的內容也希望我們各大學從實務面裡面去充分的討論我們在未來的一個包含"},{"start":12048.062,"end":12069.154,"text":"臺灣在人才培育裡面因應這個科技的一個快速的發展我們有怎麼樣一個更大的一個未來的一些想像在學術的發展 人才的培育包括對產業上的一些這個資源的引入我想我們都會有一個更前面的一些討論那當然學生的一個參與他是一個厲害關係人"},{"start":12070.094,"end":12093.744,"text":"本來就是大學許多的一些場域裡邊我們是鼓勵利害關係人能夠有機會表達他們的意見是 因為針對大學法的修法現在看起來所謂的利害關係人例如大學的校方跟學生有些訴求是還需要尋求共識的但是我認為這個溝通的過程也是校園民主很重要的一部分也希望教育部可以擔任請這個橋樑讓這個溝通可以實質的產生好 要拜託部長好 謝謝謝謝主席"},{"start":12100.799,"end":12125.858,"text":"好謝謝吳佩奕委員那官員請回座請伍麗華委員質詢謝謝主席有請部長有請鄭部長"},{"start":12134.761,"end":12155.411,"text":"委員好部長好我們從新聞上都陸陸續續看到幾乎所有的縣市都宣布他們的營養午餐要用全面的免費當然我不是那麼喜歡免費這兩個字我比較喜歡說是全面補助而不是用免費"},{"start":12156.431,"end":12175.996,"text":"但是呢從口號到制度的成功我想不在於宣布補助或免費而是在於完善的配套措施那實際上也有很多的聲音表達說這樣的做法會不會排擠到其他的教育資源而且我們也都知道"},{"start":12177.036,"end":12191.307,"text":"這麼做是一種高度不可逆的制度一旦啟動宣布幾乎就是不可能回頭所以在這裡我們就有幾個擔心那也希望教育部這個地方能夠去做一個討論就是關於動態的調價機制"},{"start":12196.391,"end":12224.151,"text":"因为我们比较担心的是未来如果他一直没有调价机制那么是不是孩子的营养午餐的品质会大打折扣我们看到有很多的法律都会写说每三年随物价指数来调整很多的法令都会提到这样子写所以我们也希望说这样的一个机制是很重要的那再例如呢"},{"start":12224.972,"end":12241.057,"text":"有沒有加價選購這樣的一個彈性事實上很多的家長他也會期待說他們可以自費加價然後在免費的基礎上有更好的一個營養午餐的品質既能減輕家長的負擔"},{"start":12242.617,"end":12262.527,"text":"又能夠滿足現代學童的營養需求我在這邊只是這樣子做這樣的例子所以想要請教部長的就是說如何為未來去做這樣的一個因應關於預算的永續性品質的一致性制度的創新支援因為實際上有一個縣市從99學年度"},{"start":12265.228,"end":12291.426,"text":"他早就已經開始實施全面的免費營養午餐但是我們也聽到很多關於品質的一個檢討所以我們也會擔心未來會產生這樣的情形不曉得部長您的看法如何我們謝謝委員關心也謝謝委員確實也看到我們在這個營養午餐中華事實上現在在討論我們委員主席也非常關心"},{"start":12292.574,"end":12313.551,"text":"但是在這個之前已經有十個縣市已經是免費然後最近全國只剩下兩個但是委員剛才所提的到底要不要各地方縣市他一定會考慮他的物價包括這個學生的營養午餐怎麼樣去確保他的品質所以很多家長也會擔心"},{"start":12316.303,"end":12343.435,"text":"最重要的一個規準那當然有一些地方我知道也有一些部分的學校他會自己家長會裡面會希望他們加價能夠讓小孩子吃得更好我想我們沒有限制的理由但是怎麼樣在一定的一個比例不然你會造成還是會有一些不同的色心地位裡面家庭的一個問題因為未來地方政府如果它基於預算它一直沒有所謂的一個動態調價機制"},{"start":12345.896,"end":12364.782,"text":"那這個也是很多地方擔心的所以也很希望能夠在辦法或者是未來的專法有沒有可能由中央來訂定納入評鑑之類的機制我們當然希望所有的政策的宣示是永續的而不要說因為今年大家很高興明年因為物價上漲"},{"start":12366.182,"end":12391.994,"text":"這樣一個價格就這就是很多家長擔心的然後或者就可能品質降低我想這不是我們一個地方政策地方自治裡邊在宣布政策裡邊所考量的我們當然會希望這個品質是能夠被確保的這也是教育部在未來裡邊我們會透過就是配套措施好不好我們未來跟地方來合作而且會提醒也會透過一定的監督來把關好 謝謝部長"},{"start":12395.015,"end":12422.796,"text":"那另外就是1月12號已經有預告一個解聘辦法的一個新的預告公告內容那關於這個部分部長您也很清楚這兩年其實各地的教師會也好很多的教師團體他們其實也不斷地訴求不斷地開記者會那我們在立法院也做過很多次的質詢甚至是也參與很多場次的記者會"},{"start":12423.837,"end":12442.672,"text":"那現在其實教育部草案的修正內容我先這樣子說其實是採納了很多地方的聲音跟意見那即便是後來還有不同的聲音出來但是我覺得其實在這之前大家反映出來的聲音"},{"start":12443.613,"end":12458.537,"text":"其實教育部也都有接納聽進去了可是我在這裡要提到的就是關於教師權益跟兒少權的衝突他其實是在冰山的底下還是在那個地方較勁較力包括校內調查結構的衝突等等"},{"start":12462.458,"end":12485.095,"text":"那也就是說在這個地方如果我們沒有去注意的話未來依舊還是會有很多很多的聲音出來舉個例子來講像現在我們公告出來我們並沒有看到還是依照現行辦法的規定關於這些什麼解聘終局停聘不續聘的時候被害人才有權取得調查報告"},{"start":12485.995,"end":12506.615,"text":"並且提出救濟陳情所以在這個地方就形成了一個程序的黑洞為什麼因為他在第48條的地方他的原因就在於我們可以看到他在第一項他說本法第16條第一項第一款的事件僅需對行為人提供調查報告"},{"start":12507.856,"end":12523.307,"text":"但是我們應該是要針對行為人與被害人或檢舉人這個地方就是不夠橫貧那麼我們再去看同樣的立法格式我們卻看到在第48條的第三項"},{"start":12525.569,"end":12549.397,"text":"有去做修法了可是在第43條的地方我們可以看到在第48條被害人提出陳情前得向學校申請提供調查報告然後以主張或維護其法律上利益有必要違憲可是第43條他們原本是一樣的喔修法之後卻只修了行為人"},{"start":12550.377,"end":12576.742,"text":"卻沒有被害人所以這個部分反而是讓學校主動提供行為人的調查報告卻不用提供給被害人所以這個是不利於兒少犬的部分又或者是說我們看到像是輕微的處分像是依照考核辦法申戒之類的他卻沒有一個申請的一個救濟管道那麼跟他原來的需求是相違背的"},{"start":12577.202,"end":12605.621,"text":"所以在這個地方就是凸顯了說我們的行為人跟被害人或檢舉人之間的一個權利不對等所以在這個地方就是一 他沒有辦法取得調查報告二 沒有辦法讓他有法定的一個救濟途徑所以這個部分站在橫平的立場就是想要請教部長是不是學校應該要主動提供調查報告無論是懲處結果如何給當事人 行為人 檢舉人"},{"start":12607.322,"end":12631.249,"text":"部長這個部分您的看法如何謝謝委員這個提醒確實這一個法的一個修訂本來就是因為行為人是可能他變成除非他被冤枉不然他可能是一個加害人那我們要處理的是行為人他後來可能涉及到他的一個解聘等等的這些的嫌疑所以我們才在他"},{"start":12632.778,"end":12655.915,"text":"进入校教评会之前让他看到能够对他的行为有所能够有一些说明这里边所有的处理的过程一定会到地方政府教育局备查所以也就是说对这个指控的人我们事实上他还是可以有一定的程序透过地方政府里边去这个"},{"start":12656.916,"end":12663.261,"text":"這一個監督整個學校的處理的一個運作那當然如果我們也希望說這樣的一個調整"},{"start":12665.731,"end":12686.683,"text":"我们怎么样在儿少权益的保护也不阴枉老师的一些专业的一个教学的一个权利那我们希望也许这滚动式的到今年的六月我们会收集更多的资料来做一个滚动式的修正所以这个意见儿少权益的部分会纳进去考量对不对我要讲我们为整体的一个考量"},{"start":12686.983,"end":12711.992,"text":"但我還是要回歸到我們還是很關心教師的權益所以就計後他的案件如果不成立部長我也聽過您很支持很認同還給他全心跟他的家籍這個部分要修教師法第25條以及教師待遇條例的第19條我都有提出修法版本了不曉得部裡面如何"},{"start":12714.701,"end":12734.347,"text":"跟委員報告確實委員也非常關心我也曾經跟委員這個表達自始至終我的立場就是將心比心所以今天我們不是受害人所以我們沒有辦法感同身受也正因為這樣所以他一定要朝那一個方向來修改所以教育部會主動積極來處理這個部分好 謝謝部長"},{"start":12737.108,"end":12759.819,"text":"好 謝謝部長但是呢 在調查階段還是有一個停聘 靜候調查的一個比例原則啦我們看到解聘辦法第11條第一項這個是很多老師痛苦的地方就是將行為人暫時予以停聘並靜候調查然後要等行政調查完畢後 認定情節重大才有懲戒法庭或主管機關來裁定"},{"start":12761.792,"end":12787.583,"text":"您看一下我的PPD這是我接到的陳情他說他接到公文他們要讓我復職然後馬上停聘三個月要繼續調查我學校說要搞死我這個都不是重點他說他想死啦他跟我想死我花了好長的一段時間一直鼓勵他當然這樣的例子很多"},{"start":12788.783,"end":12811.356,"text":"我們經常接到這方面的陳情但是我從不介入因為我們沒有辦法判斷到底誰為真誰為假這個要交給專業的這一些調查的委員會甚至是法官來處理我們也知道我們從不介入但是我們確實看到很多人很痛苦"},{"start":12812.307,"end":12831.523,"text":"在這個當中他可能沒有辦法去取得很清楚的一個調查委員會的一個認可但是他又覺得他是被冤枉的那個是無中生有的所以我要講的是說我們在教育界都很多年確實很多的老師他是性格的問題他是連續性的"},{"start":12834.065,"end":12859.972,"text":"可是也有一些人我們很清楚知道他可能是初次或者是只有這個單一事件但是他就要面臨這種解聘 停聘 靜候調查甚至最後沒有犯完所以這個是在我們當中的一個比例的原則我不曉得說有沒有可能增列一個初次單一情節輕微的為私行為的處理機制部長您怎麼看"},{"start":12861.773,"end":12887.747,"text":"謝謝委員的指導其實我們大概學校的現場裡邊我們其實信憑法違反信憑法是當然要停止但是如果在校事這個部分我們本來就是希望不要用小案大辦所以我們有一個分流的機制那以現在的一個法條法令的規範就是說校教評會這個通過了他要停止要"},{"start":12889.411,"end":12916.645,"text":"這一個停止的這一個他才會有進入到這一個所謂的權益等於說這一個等於說他校教評會一定要通過部長我這樣說好了我舉例舉清楚一點假設有一位老師有一個主任他好心去幫體育老師帶課在這一節課當中突然就被告說學生去舉發說老師拿東西威脅我要刺我"},{"start":12918.973,"end":12939.298,"text":"那這個老師他過去沒有這樣的一個案例但是呢有理也說不清因為這個就是我們講的就是希望國教署要全面整理建立一個教師專業的倫理指引讓不當管教行為有更明確的界限而不要讓定義散落在各個含釋讓老師無所適從"},{"start":12940.518,"end":12956.9,"text":"那當老師面對這樣子他過去沒有可是他面臨的是什麼呢就是我們很害怕的修法之後的第九條依然是由校長邀集雖然校長沒有表決前但是我們常常講的就是問題的根源為何校內的調查"},{"start":12958.442,"end":12982.399,"text":"他本來就是我們再怎麼改他只是換零件他可能還是一部爛車但是我們很多的調查權如果還留在學校制度就永遠沒有辦法擺脫所謂的人情權利的一個死結然後行政的崩潰 專業的不足求援兼裁判這樣的一個迷思黑箱當中所以"},{"start":12982.799,"end":13003.937,"text":"我覺得這個部分也是我們必須要在這次預告當中還是要去回歸到像我其實從以前就一直喊第三方機制我其實是希望說有所謂的第三方調查但是我們現在的幼教模式已經是這樣幼教模式是交由縣市主管機關來建立一個審查小組"},{"start":13005.379,"end":13022.638,"text":"所以我只是要表达的是说其实很多的根源还是会落入在我们的整个结构性当中没有办法掉脱人情权利派系地方这种调查权是不是有办法把它移出去部长您的看法"},{"start":13023.726,"end":13038.232,"text":"謝謝委員的指導我想土法不足以自行是很多的時候我們在把授權這個法令的這個專業的這個角色在教師法已經非常明文的一個規範老師"},{"start":13040.493,"end":13069.371,"text":"所有的权益义务在校教评会里边相关的都明定的很清楚但是为什么108年会定出一个校事会议的一些处理当然它有它的时空变形我也非常不舍我们看到非常多的老师他非常认真的坚守他的岗位但是因为班级经营我们只是希望在这一个儿少权益跟老师的权益怎么样慢慢的大家彼此能够建立一个互信"},{"start":13070.251,"end":13090.404,"text":"能夠讓學校有一個更友善更溫馨的一個支持老師的教科學生的學家長也放心那這個東西以現階段來講我們必須要再有一點時間來逐步的改善建立這個重新這個信任的這個校園文化跟氛圍那我想這一個"},{"start":13092.165,"end":13109.972,"text":"在這個時刻我們在校事會議就可以退場了好就是謝謝部長因為您從教育界出身我相信這一些您都很有感那我們是希望說這一次的預告期雖然我們已經去處理了這種匿名檢舉不受理然後呢"},{"start":13110.552,"end":13137.045,"text":"第一阶段回到考核办法然后再进入到我们所谓的一个校师会议又或者是说我们再去考虑对于这种初次的单一的轻微的是不是回归校内程序处理我想这很多我们其实儿少权的保障跟教师权益的保障都是为了我们国家教育的一个健全因为大家都需要快乐"},{"start":13138.045,"end":13166.295,"text":"所以這個部分就是希望部長你能夠針對檢舉人的權益讓他們也能取得調查報告也有一個申訴的救濟管道那教室的權益包括名譽的回覆最基本的就是回覆全新然後對於這些輕微出赤的還有他停聘的一個工作權那甚至有可能未來我們就是把調查權移出學校交給第三方比照幼教的一個模式"},{"start":13166.795,"end":13192.442,"text":"然後建立一個好的教師專業的倫理指引讓老師不要無所適從我想每一個作為其實都是代表我們對這件事情的用心我相信所有的家長也好 老師也好也都會看重我們這份重視的態度好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝伍麗華委員那官員請回座了"},{"start":13196.361,"end":13219.562,"text":"現在因為已經超過12點了如果有 官員有用餐的需求就自己去拿便當好不好就把握時間那現在請王紅薇委員質詢時間4分鐘等一下是林怡瑾委員之後呢我們來處理臨時提案的議題好 謝謝主席我請一下我們鄭部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":13227.779,"end":13256.546,"text":"部长好我们都知道现在在第一线出现了教师的逃亡潮有很多的教师离开了第一线教师的岗位甚至连公费生都提前去解约这个比例也算是有意义的请问一下部长你认为现在第一线的教师逃亡潮就是现在老师不想当老师你觉得最主要的原因是什么"},{"start":13258.427,"end":13271.022,"text":"我想社會在進步那家長這個對這個教育也有許多的一些想法那當然老師也一樣在因為在這個"},{"start":13274.148,"end":13301.901,"text":"環境氛圍裡面他面臨的挑戰確實也比較多那我想這是一個原因所以部長確實承認就是在第一線教師現在第一個他的第一線工作壓力大那麼他現在擔任老師的環境也不如以往以前都要說尊是重道老師講的一定是對的那現在完全沒有這回事而且整個的教育環境我也講過我自己從第一線的這個基層的"},{"start":13303.482,"end":13320.196,"text":"一元做起我们受到太多的各式各样的投诉来自于老师的投诉来自于家长的投诉那我也有讲过我曾经我听到最扯的是老师一上课就是要拜托学生不要告我"},{"start":13320.896,"end":13350.596,"text":"学生不要告我就是同学不要告我他每一堂课都要去重复这样的事情那所以像应该是去年去年事实上很多的学校甄选就出现了非常大的问题以我们台北市来说其实这个教师严重不足而且他们开这个缺额那也有这个学校什么公开甄选40次都甄不到老师那我觉得这问题必须要解决"},{"start":13351.176,"end":13372.615,"text":"必须要解决因为我们不能不承认一个好的老师我觉得好的老师是教育最非常重要的一个根基好那所以我们今天回到我们有关于这一次相关的解聘办法或者是之前办法的一个修正那这个已经公告实施了那我请问"},{"start":13373.596,"end":13401.645,"text":"那個部長為什麼在這次公告實施之後那你們之前也說做了很多的座談會但是為什麼第一線老師仍然有這麼這麼大的不安你覺得原因在哪裡是溝通不足還是這個辦法還是有缺漏應該再予以修正我想當然圖法不足以置信我比較先說明但是我們這一次的一個修法"},{"start":13402.915,"end":13428.005,"text":"基本上也跟教師團體有非常多的包括基層老師的一些溝通座談他們希望不要小案大辦要分流要能夠這個停止這個減少這個爛數我們都朝那一個方向包含現在他沒有做到的就是對老師被冤枉後來的名譽恢復包括他的權益上的恢復我想這個我們省社樂觀也在"},{"start":13428.385,"end":13447.783,"text":"透过跨部会跨院包含全系部的一些沟通都在往好的方向在走但是能不能很快速的去形成一个法令上的修改我想这我们会继续努力当然我也这么讲所有的法令不可能一次因为民主法治的社会终究你"},{"start":13448.684,"end":13463.141,"text":"修改了我們朝那個方向難免還是有一些期待甚至更高的人他會希望能夠一步到位那我只能講我們目前的修改它確實是來自於不同好 所以這個辦法還會再做修改我們會滾動式的在看這一個"},{"start":13468.807,"end":13492.922,"text":"因為你1月12號就已經公布了嘛但是仍然現在平息 這個爭議沒有平息嘛法令的修改後看看觀察這將近未來的半年那你再啟動修改大概你的期程 我們基本上是會在暑假的時候把這一個真正的這半年未來的半年裡面的實際的一些可能造成了"},{"start":13493.522,"end":13518.347,"text":"所以你在這邊可以承諾在暑假之前會朝著這個更好的一個方式在做修正我們基本上會在暑假的時候把這些data收集然後根據真的一個data做你是暑假之前還是暑假暑假的時候也就是說我們希望那你是下學期開學之前下學期之前好那在這部分因為我們也最近我相信很多委員都也接受很多的投訴是"},{"start":13519.147,"end":13535.45,"text":"跟抗议所以呢是不是就是部长这边可以承诺在下个学期这个开学之前再完成相关的修正可以让他能够往更好的一个方向更有共识的方向"},{"start":13535.911,"end":13562.711,"text":"谢谢委员提醒那是我们的方向也是我们努力的目标我想我们在下一个学期这一个9月开始之前我们希望有一个更好的一些让我们第一线老师让他们能够安心的我们现在刘老师都不容易了能够让他们第一线没有后顾之忧的来从事他的教育工作好不好好 谢谢好 谢谢王红薇委员"},{"start":13564.491,"end":13588.179,"text":"請部長 署長回座現在請林怡錦委員質詢好 謝主席有請優雅的台灣人 鄭英耀部長有請鄭部長"},{"start":13596.718,"end":13617.668,"text":"委員好部長好首先本席還是要抗議喔這個會期是預算會期那在野黨不審預算卻在委員會要求大家繼續原地繞圈圈假裝自己很關心學校營養午餐事實上才化法被修得亂七八糟然後行政院版又遭到拒絕審查"},{"start":13618.869,"end":13642.118,"text":"那為什麼營養午餐法會打結財源不明 事權不清就是一個明擺著一隻在房間裡的大象我們已經講過很多次了這個結沒想到 後續怎麼講 都是假說的啦教會部做過初步的盤整營養午餐專法若一旦訂定了每年需要花國家差不多44億的預算"},{"start":13644.119,"end":13658.431,"text":"換句話說在財化法沒有被惡修的狀況之下營養午餐法涉及那麼龐大的這個經費本來就知識體大本來就需要時間要好好的評估那從上一任到這一屆我想"},{"start":13659.432,"end":13673.748,"text":"我們辦公室都非常持續跟辦公室跟教育部來追蹤布版跟整個條文的進度那在不分黨派的委員的共同努力下其實院版的條文也從無到有"},{"start":13674.429,"end":13696.846,"text":"其實很有機會來進立法院審查現在是半路又殺出了這個才化法修法二修讓一切停擺所以本席還要強調一次營養午餐專法本來就試設龐大的這個國家經費相關立法本來就很不容易但是在野黨卻讓這一切更的更難了不幫忙就算了還扯後腿"},{"start":13697.486,"end":13726.608,"text":"所以在財化法被惡修的情況之下那負責最終財政這個責任的中央政府他根本不敢不敢隨便提出法案嘛好那這個會期剩下兩個禮拜喔那院版的財化法繼續被卡所以要請教部長是說你認為有哪些涉及這個中央地方事權分配的這個教育部相關的工作事務無法獲得這個解決那或進一步的推動讓你最心痛"},{"start":13729.875,"end":13755.89,"text":"就是試射對 試射這些因為才化法被卡因為確實這一個過去我們當然從中央的一個政策裡邊它有一定的一些從專業理想性但是我也跟委員報告因為這個營養午餐專法之前本來就有十個縣市已經免費推動那當然這是屬於地方的一個權限但是這一個我們"},{"start":13757.731,"end":13776.489,"text":"教文會裡面在討論這個營養專法的時候後來又陸續在今年年初又陸續有縣市都宣布了所以現在22個地方縣市確實有20個縣市它是傾向這個政策來支持學童的免費使用"},{"start":13777.17,"end":13793.216,"text":"那當然從教育部的立場我們當然會希望就是說地方勇於承擔從地方知識我來看這是好事但是怎麼確保學童吃得健康 吃得安全然後能夠確保他在"},{"start":13794.576,"end":13823.028,"text":"這個發展的過程能夠受到一個更多的支持包含這一個許多的這個食安的問題都能夠解決我想這是教育部在這一個地方在這個本地地方的前者在推動的時候我們期待中央跟地方怎麼樣共同努力包含能夠確保這個三張EQ我們透過整個監督的平台裡面登錄的平台裡面去確保我們的食材包含需要中央"},{"start":13823.828,"end":13851.634,"text":"更多的一些专业来提供专业的协助在这个营养上的一些机制上的一个协助包含这个跟地方来合作怎么有许多的这些做得好的经验能够怎么扩张我们有一些监督跟揭露的机制教育部也愿意来编一些经会给好的地方政府在营养午餐推动我们也会给予一些支持做这样的步骤说明"},{"start":13852.284,"end":13874.675,"text":"那再來針對教育部就是上週公布這個校事會議相關的這個辦法的修正那本席在去年5月就有曾經召開記者會來關注這個校事會議濫訴的這個議題那這個會期也有分別在記者會質詢的時候都有跟教育部來探討這個相關的精進的方向那回到這次修法的這個重點"},{"start":13875.855,"end":13896.872,"text":"很重要就是說我們要減少檢舉案量並且分流那主要就是因為學校接獲檢舉後那經校長召開會議認定行為人涉及考核辦法的教師懲處的情況者那他就應適用或準用這個考核辦法去規定辦理"},{"start":13897.452,"end":13915.085,"text":"那可是我想要關注的是說我們在QA裡面看見的就是說如果涉及考核辦法的案例由校內人員調查那不用送到校事會議可是必要時得指派校外人員調查"},{"start":13916.549,"end":13942.589,"text":"教師團體就認為說你這個必要時只派校外人員調查就很可能讓例外成為常態不僅會削弱校園的內部專業自治權也沒有辦法減緩學校內部行政事務繁雜的狀況所以想要請教部長是說就15面我們要怎麼避免涉及考核辦法的案例都走到所謂的"},{"start":13943.69,"end":13970.841,"text":"必要時指派校外人員調查那教育部的整體評估這次修改的辦法真的可以有效的減少那個案量嗎我想謝謝委員關心其實當時會有一個必要的時候是因為台灣譬如說以小學2600多所裡邊我們大概有四成多是六班以下你根本這個特別小型的學校裡邊老師"},{"start":13972.725,"end":13991.494,"text":"沒有幾位所以我們才會說有這樣假設有一個學校規模太小而造成一些同仁之間的一些不必要的一些困擾這時候可以有例外就是說他即便進入了這個考核辦法裡面本來是校內人員處理嘛對 原則還是校內的人員"},{"start":13992.714,"end":14018.37,"text":"就是说我们希望恢复到本来我们去寻谈观客老师本来就是一个班级经营一个小事情不要动不动就进入到我们现在的校事会议才会有这个设计分流但是我也希望我们教师团体必须要去理解我们在那么多的一个团体里我们找到了一些解决的一个方式那让我们能够大家放心走一段"},{"start":14019.44,"end":14022.351,"text":"最壞 對不起在我的看法最壞也不過跟"},{"start":14023.707,"end":14050.499,"text":"過去一樣 現在一樣那總是有一個大家都很辛苦在往好的方向在走是不是能夠相信我們對校長 對老師我們會有更多的一些支持也希望他往好的方向來發展這事實上也是家長最大的期望家長就希望他能夠安心的放心的把小孩子教到學校當然 我想教師團體會擔心這個也不是沒有道理"},{"start":14051.119,"end":14067.618,"text":"因為他怕真的例外變常常就說有的學校的校長就真的是沒有肩膀所以他會覺得說雖然已經分流了可是到那裡去他還是希望說就直接還是讓校外的調查人員來調查我都沒事所以"},{"start":14067.998,"end":14095.171,"text":"某個程度啦 這個也不是說叫做團體不擔心所以我覺得未來怎麼走或者是不是有提出一些條件來修正我想這個部長還可以再思考啦那另外我本期要提的是說這次我們還有新增所謂的輔佐人參與制度我們民地行為人被害人接受訪談的時候得依法由輔佐人協同到場來參與以及協助理解這個程序跟表達意見"},{"start":14095.951,"end":14111.576,"text":"那這其實齁 說真的 在現行的制度裡就有它的規範 類似的規範所以教師團體他現在關心的其實是現在學校他現場請來這些外聘的調查人員大多都是法律專業大多是法律專業 那並沒有實務的"},{"start":14113.597,"end":14119.184,"text":"消學的這個經驗那所以在調查過程中他會比較沒有辦法針對教學實務作業來詢問當事人那也沒有實務現場的脈絡所以本席要強調的是教師團體他訴求說調查小組"},{"start":14130.236,"end":14152.504,"text":"納入兩名學校老師或者是家長或者是其他的校內外人員那他這宗旨其實是要協助調查要讓調查報告更為完整度更高而不是單純是要協助當事人調查過程的陪伴或支持所以部長教育部對於這個輔佐人的概念到底是什麼"},{"start":14152.984,"end":14168.384,"text":"就這部分有沒有機會可以調整或者考量教師團體的訴求跟家長學生的立場的時候你到底有碰到什麼樣的難處才會做出就是你現在訂定這個基本上跟原本的制度沒什麼兩樣"},{"start":14170.134,"end":14193.311,"text":"过去它确实有一些学校拼了比较多的法律的专业背景但是我们也透过这一年来的一个资料的搜集我们希望要有一些包含心理学辅导的专家或者儿少等等的一些那所有的过去的校士会议确实存在了一些问题所以我们这一次的一个学会我们希望"},{"start":14194.144,"end":14218.621,"text":"真正了解學校的老師的還是校內的老師代表這一個家長他的某種程度對學校的實際的運作他們會比較熟悉那當然有客觀的人大家回到無罪推論真正的去協助這一個問題當然等於說舉花人他一定有消外調查人員是從這個人力資料庫去勾選的嘛"},{"start":14219.434,"end":14244.631,"text":"我們有兩位是從這個人才庫這個人才庫是地方的教育局提供給學校所以他如果提供的這些人才庫就我理解是五倍五倍的讓你去自己學校去勾選那你五倍人才庫給的有可能全部都是法律專學我想我們往好的來看我們校長現在其實也實際在應做有發現過去的問題"},{"start":14247.213,"end":14266.32,"text":"那學校要學校如果每天昏昏老老這個校長大概也很難繼續做下去所以校長應該本於專業怎麼樣來協助從平常就要增加這個跟老師的一個溝通然後去協助他而不是拿著棍子或者鞭子就我想校長責無旁貸"},{"start":14267.34,"end":14293.775,"text":"這個部分我們就是不是讓這個1月10號公布的我們至少有一些理想性是包含剛才講做陪伴者輔助人也是當時我們跟基層包含教師會的一個這個教師團體的一個提出來的建議所以我們也從善如流把它加進來類似這樣的等等我想是不是我們也會滾動的修正因為"},{"start":14294.315,"end":14313.172,"text":"就讓你現在的現行先走一段是然後你會滾動修正是好 那我讓一點點時間我一併再追問一下教育部有宣布我們就是接任大科老師的重點費有調整20%可是我們接到教學資源老師他們的陳情他們沒有跟著一起調整"},{"start":14313.932,"end":14340.837,"text":"那可是他們原本領的是跟這些代課老師的終點名是一樣的所以我想要表達是說其實他們他們其實說真的我們在國家語言發展法裡面有明定喔說這些老師是以專職方式為主為原則可是現在我們幾乎都是用兼任的啦都是終點記酬的好 那既然他們主要來源是終點記酬那我覺得是不是這個有必要來調整看看"},{"start":14341.97,"end":14361.81,"text":"谢谢委员关心确实我最近从我过去在大学的经验专任跟兼任的终点会一定是一致的然后我上个礼拜我发现这一个本土这个老师本土语言的老师或者这个代理代课我们其实当时的一个这一个"},{"start":14362.711,"end":14392.006,"text":"修正的一個精神就是希望它一體適用那也跟我們報告但是我們在過去的行政程序確實還要走一些程序那這個禮拜我們會走完那一個程序那我想我也希望也特別跟彭署長講說我們應該在未來這一個機制建立以後就一體適用不要在這邊又走一次這邊還要行程序再去給院長核定我想這個部分我想我們是有共識的"},{"start":14392.346,"end":14417.899,"text":"因為我們已經把修正把教學資源老師把它更名了嘛本來叫做教學資源工作人員嘛所以我想這個是對表達他們對教學這個資源人員的尊重所以我期待說這個在終點放上實際上實質在課堂裡面授課嘛所以這個東西不應該因為身份上的差異沒錯 沒錯而有不同好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝委員關心 謝謝好 謝謝林怡錦委員請部長署長回座"},{"start":14427.811,"end":14456.084,"text":"現在是處理臨時提案的時間那今天有張雅玲委員等其他兩位委員提出臨時提案一案那請宣讀臨時提案政府今年推動教師待遇調整核心目的在於支持教師專業減輕教學現場負擔並穩定教育人力然而114年12月公布教師待遇調整方案中多數均得回溯至114年9月1日生效"},{"start":14456.664,"end":14485.584,"text":"唯獨特殊教育教師加級僅至115年2月1日起實施造成同一政策下對特教教師之差別待遇特殊教育教師長期承擔高度情緒勞動專業要求與教學壓力其工作負擔與專業強度不亞於一般教師甚至更為繁重此次調整方案已影響現場士氣亦不利於特殊教育教師之留任與穩定"},{"start":14486.785,"end":14503.86,"text":"進而衝擊特殊教育學生之授教權益終上請教育部針對特殊教育教師加緊為比照其他教師待遇調整回溯至114年9月1日一案建請教育部研議補救及回溯機制提案人張雅琳 陳秀寶 煥雲 宣讀完畢"},{"start":14506.445,"end":14530.332,"text":"好那請問提案委員有無補充或說明的意見好因為我剛剛其實也有特別在因為我其實已經講過很多次了所以我想這個內容應該沒有太大的問題那剛剛是有講說希望是給我們給教育部一個月的時間那我想就是這一邊如果沒有任何的問題的話那我的意見就是如上謝謝好因為張雅琳委員的確剛才也在質詢的時候也問到那教育部這邊有意見嗎"},{"start":14533.138,"end":14551.811,"text":"關心我想我們在一個月因為涉及到地方我們要跟地方來討論那倒是利用這個也澄清一下我們特教老師在當導師他有帶班他導師會還是一樣已經就是提升了導師會是提升了但是特教的這個職務的加急我想我們跟地方再來討論看怎麼樣有一個好的一些共識謝謝"},{"start":14561.806,"end":14582.784,"text":"好 那我也再釐清一下就是說我知道特教老師如果有兼任導師他是可以有這個佳績導師費是有的可是問題是並不是每個特教老師都有有時候他們可能是兩個人留當老師導師所以我想這個部分還是蠻重要的那就是再麻煩教育部多幫忙 謝謝好 這樣雙方沒有異議那就無意間我們就招案通過好 謝謝繼續進行會議"},{"start":14587.728,"end":14593.293,"text":"對一個月沒錯這邊已經寫了一個月了好那就現在請羅志強委員質詢時間4分鐘有請鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":14608.291,"end":14630.44,"text":"委員好 部長好請教一下教育部這次修正教師解併辦法跟成績考核辦法是想幫老師來解決問題還是想幫老師製造問題找麻煩呢沒有 從來沒有找麻煩的念頭所以是想幫老師解決問題當然 當然部長 這就我要跟你講的事情"},{"start":14631.363,"end":14640.46,"text":"那如果你是纯粹是想帮老师解决问题你怎么会搞到教师团体们群起抗议呢我相信很多委员都在办公室接到抗议老师的抗议了你知道吧"},{"start":14641.26,"end":14663.345,"text":"我知道那我就不能理解啦那想請問到底是老師們杞人憂天還是教育部溝通不足還是老師們不相信教育部過去你們的公信力不夠是哪個因素你認為是幫老師解決問題結果老師們認為你是在製造問題找他們麻煩呢"},{"start":14665.262,"end":14694.158,"text":"我想台湾的教育我从这个前年的520进来我确实发现我们学校里边多一份的不信任不管从学校对地方对中央或者教师团体家长团体我想我们确实在努力希望能够有一个更多的这样的一个对老师的一个支持我跟部长说起码我觉得教育部真的这件事就要好好检讨了"},{"start":14694.793,"end":14723.709,"text":"因为最怕的政策是什么如果说今天你这个政策本来就是要来修理老师无所谓政策目的跟大家反应是一致的老师觉得你们这样做不公平不对可是你既然都我看你今天的询答你都告诉大家这是为了老师来解决问题了结果你弄到老师们全都不高兴那就证明两件事情教育部事前沟通就没做好这一点我觉得部长你总不会否认否则为什么老师们搞得这么生气这么担忧呢"},{"start":14724.841,"end":14749.149,"text":"沒錯吧溝通要加強吧應該要繼續加強溝通這當然我們悉心接受對啊因為民主法治的社會當然跟教師團體還有一定的部長我是為您好如果真的如你所說這是幫老師們解決問題的話那你怎麼會弄到說老師們都出來抗議第二個就是說那也顯現過去我覺得教育部跟老師之間的互信不夠"},{"start":14750.84,"end":14767.599,"text":"如果真的是你讲的是解决问题的话那今天老师们不相信教育部那教育部自己也要去检讨但实际上老师们担心是不是也不是杞人忧天我举几个例子比方说你现在老师们也是认为你新增一个审议校师会议是否受以"},{"start":14768.64,"end":14784.587,"text":"這個的會議號由校外專家聘集由校長聘集外聘專家校事會議是教師代表跟家長代表四人組成審議小組我想請問只要有人陳情是不是就開始啟動這個會了我們當時為了解決這一個小案大辦"},{"start":14788.331,"end":14809.574,"text":"所以在這個調查小組裡面它事實上有校內的老師代表有家長代表只有一位是屬於校外的公正人物我這樣子把老師們的疑慮講給部長聽他們認為說第一個這叫跌床架屋嘛你本來就有一個校事會上面再架一個房子上去然後呢"},{"start":14810.555,"end":14827.188,"text":"耗損資源你還是不可能透過這方式來解決爛數的問題這老師們的疑慮啦你反正多了一道序多了一道序因為你們搭配了這個不但跟校事會議功能重疊權力也更直接嘛那裡面辦法對老師尋談 觀客 誤談這些報告條款"},{"start":14830.151,"end":14851.409,"text":"你就是在增加老師們再多一道程序上的負擔這是老師們的疑慮你覺得這個疑慮出發點有錯嗎我們怎麼樣讓老師放心我想一直是我們努力的但是要跟我們報告就是因為過去其實只是我講的一個班級經營上的一個疏漏還不"},{"start":14852.51,"end":14875.324,"text":"不应该进入到校事会议但是我们现在因为小案大办全部都到校事会议本来他不处理不然我最后因为时间问题中间其实就有一个沟通的盲点你是希望这个所谓的前置的会议来去减少送援减少那个申诉员对处理员可是事实上有没有办法做到答案是问号嘛"},{"start":14876.224,"end":14894.583,"text":"那很可能如果没有做到搞了半天最后进到这个地方的案子没有减少那案子审出来也没减少进到校室会议这才是老师们今天担忧的问题他没有办法透过一个外观你多了一道会议的程序他认为就能够达到所谓减少这个所谓烂数的问题嘛不是吗"},{"start":14895.504,"end":14914.804,"text":"跟委員報告這個我們建立的這個機制是希望朝更好的那當然還剛開始那另外一個委員剛才所關心的我心存感謝我們來看怎麼樣累積這個食物那第二個就是說因為爛樹這個把不具名的這一個把他先"},{"start":14915.825,"end":14945.186,"text":"等于说不处理的时候我想对第一线上的老师一定程度我相信随着时间他一定会有感好 最后只有一句话不要好心办坏事也不要好心被人家认为你办坏事这是第一个前面好心办坏事是你把事情搞砸那教育部就要弹起车但如果说你今天没有打算把事情搞砸就人家认为会把事情搞砸那就沟通跟互信出了问题拜托教育部要好好检讨这方面的问题"},{"start":14945.646,"end":14950.951,"text":"謝謝委員關心好謝謝羅志強委員質詢那部長署長請回座現在請鄭天才委員質詢時間4分鐘主席各位委員有請部長好請部長"},{"start":14975.956,"end":14985.807,"text":"部長好 辛苦了請問一下部長 援助民族教育程度的提升重不重要當然重要"},{"start":14986.918,"end":15013.442,"text":"对原住民族而言比非原住民族更为重要我想委员也非常清楚我求学的背景跟很多原住民同学到现在还有非常深度的一些联系这表示我对多原族群不同的一个关照我想我从年轻时代我就有这样的一个态度这个质询请你重视"},{"start":15015.25,"end":15040.671,"text":"本席特別提出原住民族教育法第23條的規定特別針對以各校 就是說高級中等以上的學校最主要是針對大專校院以各校園核定招生名額外加5%以上來計算希望能夠明列在這個原住民族教育法裡面來規定這個理由"},{"start":15044.502,"end":15071.802,"text":"首先让部长了解一下事实上在民国五十几年民国五十几年我们考高中考大学就是外加25%以前是省政府教育厅所定的后来改为由教育部76年的时候由教育部来定这个最主要的因为在95年的时候民国95年的时候改为外加2%"},{"start":15074.366,"end":15101.884,"text":"外加2%然后我经过多次的质询后来教育部修正了这个办法2%之外还可以专案调高比例专案调高比例后来我质询当时的教育部长可以专案调高部分的科系5%但是实施这么多年之后"},{"start":15102.935,"end":15113.487,"text":"你看看我们的近五年大专校院学生的出债协力107学年度差距原住民跟非原住民的差距31.9%到了113学年度差距高达36.85%"},{"start":15123.154,"end":15150.931,"text":"所以这样的一个情形之下本席一直希望教育部能够把专案调高5%的科系能够扩大但是非常非常的有限所以本席才会提出本来我本席也提出过是不是修你们的办法全部改为外加5%以上但是到现在为止都没有修所以本席不得不提出"},{"start":15151.972,"end":15164.407,"text":"從原住民主教育法來徹底的來去解決請問部長你認為要採行哪一種方式你要修你的辦法還是支持本席修原住民主教育法"},{"start":15166.205,"end":15182.32,"text":"謝謝委員對研究民學生的受教的許多的一些機會上的一些關心我想跟委員報告委員也非常熟悉我們其實在大學這個大學校園的這個部分我們目前的一個外加2%事實上"},{"start":15185.181,"end":15199.441,"text":"就我的理解我们教育的现场大学大概都没有招满也就是说我们有一定的这些年的一个教育的一个普及援助民主的一个学生他们其实有很多的用学测用推针他们就"},{"start":15200.322,"end":15218.816,"text":"就完全不比我們一般的學生在幾多的表現來得不好甚至有一定比例的是更好所以它並沒有走那一個保障的機制那這個2%裡面確實以我們了解現在並沒有全然招滿"},{"start":15219.617,"end":15234.448,"text":"那當然如果5%我們研內部可以再來一個研議簡單來講現在除了2%以外我們還有一些可以因為專班因為我們也鼓勵各大學社研民中心或是部長"},{"start":15235.885,"end":15253.355,"text":"你這個說明之前也是說明過了你們的次長也說明過了最重要的是我們的原住民出債協力大專學生的出債協力落差一再的增加到36.85%重點在這邊你剛講的包括專班都列入進去了"},{"start":15260.399,"end":15271.632,"text":"都已经算进去了但是这个扩大还在扩大所以这个部分的请部长一定要第一个你要赶快修理的办法这是最快的"},{"start":15272.76,"end":15300.573,"text":"可以嗎我們來研議因為我們來跟延明會在一起來討論也跟委員報告延明會當然支持我任內事實上我們從原住民這個實驗學校裡邊從小學國中我們現在開始在鼓勵有高中的實驗學校進來我想有高中接著他去接大學這個一段時間他一定會有一個更好的一些在大學上的一些表現"},{"start":15301.753,"end":15324.034,"text":"这个出债协力一定要好好仔细看落差高达36.85%而这个部分也会涉及到教育经费你看原住民族的教育经费115学年度比14学年度比去年减少4400多万"},{"start":15326.57,"end":15342.013,"text":"减少4400多万所以这个部分是一个要去解决的问题另外你看看演兵会演兵会他编了推展南岛民族有关教育及传统经济交流"},{"start":15342.881,"end":15363.605,"text":"南岛民族国际交流不应列为原住民族教育经费原住民族教育法里面完全没有提到国际交流所以这个部分教育部在整体审查的时候编列预算的时候就要跟严明辉讲这个不应该编列在这里所以如果再扣掉这个部分了"},{"start":15364.755,"end":15382.194,"text":"我们115年度的教育经费真的是少了少了少了很多谢谢委员提醒我想我们对原住民教育的关心跟委员的态度是一致的那刚才提到那个4000多万"},{"start":15382.694,"end":15404.42,"text":"那個事實上是因為因應財務法把這些的經費就直接撥到這個地方縣市教育局但是不能犧牲原住民族的教育不會 不會犧牲 好不好事實上就減少啦所以這個部分 這個請教育部再把詳細的報告可以 我們會後再把一些相關資料提供給委員就請教育部長給鄭國傑後面事後的這個詞訊"},{"start":15408.701,"end":15434.651,"text":"包括外加5%那個部分好 謝謝三天才委員那官員請回座現在請翁曉琳委員質詢部長請回座 喝一下水好 我們等部長喝口水喘口氣那接下來請鄭部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":15442.915,"end":15470.871,"text":"委員好部長好今天你們有一個議題主要就是討論有關於校士會議的相關的修正法案我剛剛基本上我的想法跟羅志強委員的建議是很一致的就是說其實現在我們在學校裡面我們看到很多的組織跌床駕屋我們有教評會有教師申訴會議有考核會又搞一個校士會議但實際上他們的組織功能基本上是差不多大同小異"},{"start":15471.952,"end":15501.412,"text":"可是你在中小学里面又设置这么多的各不同的委员会那么已经让老师们在教学负担之外他要承担行政的工作然后还要再分心再去处理这么多会议的事情所以校师会议到底有没有存在的必要或是他就可以回归到原来的教评会议或是学校里面的教务会议甚至学生有学生申诉会然后教师有教师申诉会回到那个地方去处理会不会更好"},{"start":15503.655,"end":15512.67,"text":"谢谢委员的一个关心其实中小学跟大学看起来有一点还是有教育阶段上的一些差别"},{"start":15514.668,"end":15536.135,"text":"簡單來講我們當時的一個教師法如果我沒記錯是民國83年83年通過以後我們是定義老師他是一個教學專業所以許多包含老師的一個聘用所有的解聘不續任 續聘不續聘全部都回到中小學的一個校教評會裡面但是隨著這個社會的一個變遷我們看到"},{"start":15542.531,"end":15561.343,"text":"這個特定的一些社會的一個發展也發生了校園的一些事件所以108年就另外成立了一個校事會議好的 謝謝謝謝部長其實這個歷史我知道我只是想說你們的當時的想法跟實務的操作面上面其實就出現了嚴重的落差"},{"start":15561.883,"end":15586.374,"text":"就是后来想到的这个多设立在校师会议的组织并不赢得学校或是老师们的欢迎而且徒增非常多的困扰当然这个不是我今天我主要要质询的议题我只是认为说其实教育部真的是要好好的去体谅基层老师们的他们的一些想法要去这个体察这个基层老师的民意了这个你们现在搞了这么多的这个组织"},{"start":15586.954,"end":15610.925,"text":"事实上就是跌床驾屋那现在今天本席主要还是要跟还是要问有关于就是我们在去年通过去年年底通过退休金提款法案里面那现在教育部对于这个在职退休而且已经退休的老师们的审定函你们准备什么时候重新制作而且要停扣老师们的退休金你们现在想法是什么"},{"start":15613.375,"end":15634.477,"text":"对我想回到那个前面的这个PPT里面可以很清楚知道在我们的公立学校教职员退休这些辅助条例37条跟38条里面其实都已经非常清楚的谈到所有的退休金所得替代率就要回到112年所以呢理论上你现在对于已经退休的或是说已经申请退休的这个老师们的审定函你都要重新要公布"},{"start":15637.232,"end":15664.177,"text":"什麼時候要發給新的審定函跟委員報告因為這個法案是12月28號生效的那因為有作業上的時間還有系統上必須要去做一些調整所以我們在1月2號的時候已經通函給各主管機關我們會請他們先按照舊的替代率先去作業12月28號之後退休的人"},{"start":15664.717,"end":15673.295,"text":"那之後我們利用半年的時間將這個系統調整好我們會重新再設定好 那看起來你們現在的做法會跟前期不一樣是不是就是還需要半年的時間"},{"start":15674.867,"end":15699.062,"text":"是 因為涉及到系統重新要進行規劃的問題就這個部分 因為外界其實已經有很多批評的聲音了覺得說我們現在這個教育部 權序部 行政院整個的數位化程度非常的差一個簡單改參數的事情還要弄到半年之久這是很多退休的公教人員無法忍受的事情而且你們講半年 半年是指什麼意思"},{"start":15699.562,"end":15723.212,"text":"有一個明確的確定的時間嗎是指6月31號之前所有的新的審定還都會核發出去嗎這半年我們會將所有的系統重新調整完畢然後逐步的現在大家就是對於賴政府沒有信心嘛你看像是這個員警的退休所的替代率的提高也沒有編預算然後的軍人家計也沒有發那明明我們法律也都通過了這個公教退休金停侃"},{"start":15724.412,"end":15749.617,"text":"然後呢一個簡單的系統作業也要搞到半年而且你半年還沒有一個明確的確定的時間但看起來如果按照這個權序部還有行政院這些的報告似乎是要等到釋憲大法官這個憲法裁判做成之後你們才有可能會依法行政嗎請問這個政部長您的看法我們的法律通過之後是不是教育部就應該要依法行政了"},{"start":15750.1,"end":15770.757,"text":"不過我想這個因為院裡邊確實有在提示線所以我們作為一個團隊這個整體來講我們也是在依法行政那當然你們是依什麼法你們是依卓榮泰的法還是依賴清德的法他說的算嗎我本身要這邊要強調的這個就是一個基本的法律的ABC"},{"start":15771.878,"end":15792.06,"text":"你行政機關就是要依法行政重視行政機關有提起釋憲但是在大法官做出憲法裁判之前你們還是有依法行政執行的義務這是你們的責任今天行政院他這個拒不執行法律教育部也要跟著做嗎"},{"start":15793.046,"end":15807.475,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個法如同剛剛我跟委員報告的12月28號就已經生效了我們並沒有並沒有不依照法律來執行這樣子的好 所以就說就算你們有作業時間但是我們需要行政作業的一個時程"},{"start":15808.729,"end":15833.8,"text":"好那你们要有实现注意的时辰本期希望你们能够加速不要搞半年而且你们的半年时间也是个模糊的不确定的概念到底是指的6月31号还指的8月31你要从哪个时候还开始起算如果说能够今天给我一个明确答复说6月31号之前所有的退休审定函你们都会新制作全部核发送到每个退休老师们的手上那本期当然就"},{"start":15834.58,"end":15857.467,"text":"考量你們的辛勞 也許還可以接受但是你的半年就不確定啊然後依照情緒部的做法好 本席在這邊就提醒你們呼籲你們 要求你們必須要依法行政 必須要依法行政那麼另外呢 還有另外一個議題很快的就問一下因為我們知道其實教育部在之前呢 已經有吳小林委員 這個時間上面就"},{"start":15859.388,"end":15885.123,"text":"不好意思一分钟就好了教育部在去年12月底已经调账了公立中小学的兼任及待课教室终点费调到20%但是本席最近有收到一些就是老师们的陈情认为说那为什么对于这个课后的课后照顾班的老师的加班费却没有随着终点费来调这个部分是不是教育部的疏漏"},{"start":15886.699,"end":15909.581,"text":"还是你们刻意不想调委员这个涉及到课后以及他使用者付费的原则怕会加重家长的负担这个容许由我们跟地方政府再洽谈好不好是因为我想这也是涉及到老师们的权益因为这个从101年到现在已经十几年过去了都没有调那既然就是说现在的所有的终点费都调升了对于课后的这个"},{"start":15911.062,"end":15936.174,"text":"加班費 其實也應該要隨著來調 這樣的話才能夠讓老師們有意願可以去幫忙課後班嘛 課後的輔導班所以本席這邊提出來 希望教育部能夠盡速檢討好謝謝翁曉琳委員 那官員請回座 謝謝現在請林倩琪委員發言林倩琪委員"},{"start":15937.731,"end":15959.687,"text":"林倩琦委員不在請林佩翔委員質詢林佩翔委員林佩翔委員林佩翔委員不在請李坤成委員質詢等一下李坤成委員質詢後我想就休息一下五分鐘好不好謝謝"},{"start":15965.763,"end":15972.247,"text":"謝謝主席我們請優雅的台灣人鄭部長請鄭部長辛苦了委員好部長好我們都是優雅的台灣人不過不好意思我們今天在討論營養午餐的事情到現在已經好像已經一點一點鐘了大家都還沒有用餐比較不好意思所以我簡短趕快問一下請問一下"},{"start":15993.54,"end":16022.185,"text":"這個有一個北女的歐姓的老師受訪的時候她稱學生說不是網軍就是青鳥甚至用腦殘等字眼羞辱學生我不曉得這件事情教育部後續有沒有去了解台北市教育局他們的後續的這個了解程度是怎麼樣這有沒有違反這個教育基本法行政中立的原則有嗎因為這是發生在1月8號的事情到現在有10天的時間了我不曉得後續的教育部了解情況怎麼樣"},{"start":16025.285,"end":16027.231,"text":"有吗还没有了解"},{"start":16029.557,"end":16055.428,"text":"这个跟委员报告我们没有特别了解但是我们也在媒体里面看到台北市教育局也确实提醒老师在校园里面许多的对学生行为上的一些描述可能还是要注意到老师可以骂学生脑残吗我想这当然不宜的因为过去是有学生因为"},{"start":16056.289,"end":16066.367,"text":"因为贝老师这一个不当言语上的一个霸凌这一个就直接到法院去控诉所以脑残算不算是言语上的霸凌"},{"start":16067.383,"end":16094.983,"text":"我想這個是不疑的啦不疑的很肯定啦那我覺得去了解一下台北市交易局他們後續有沒有針對這個事情做了解好不好可以下班前我們會跟委員做報告好謝謝那我們現在還是討論這個營養午餐那我們現在有這個交易部有專法送到行政院去了嘛那後來是因為這個財化法之後因為經費分配的問題所以現在是卡住嘛是不是主要是因為經費的問題"},{"start":16096.618,"end":16121.423,"text":"主要就是因應這個財劃法它確實對許多的教育部直接撥到因為我們3700多已經撥到地方去了其實我覺得這時候是討論營養午餐一個很好的時機你說現在全國只有兩個縣市營養午餐就是由政府來出就是新北市跟嘉義市這兩個還是維持由家長來付"},{"start":16124.804,"end":16145.433,"text":"然後其他的20個縣市都是由這個地方政府來說所以他們也知道說其實營養午餐是屬於這個地方自治的事項所以我覺得這個時候應該是來討論營養午餐一個好時機既然大家地方政府也都有這個共識他們也理解這是屬於地方自治的事情但是呢中央還是有一些基本的規範"},{"start":16146.693,"end":16164.111,"text":"规范在就是让地方政府不会说有钱的县市让他可能有更多的资源他可以让这一个学生有比较好的一个营养午餐或是营养比较丰富的但是财力比较差的这些县市可能就比较没有办法所以我提几个第一个就是说"},{"start":16165.12,"end":16187.87,"text":"之前大家也都有提過如果現在營養師的分配的話我看我們草案是550名學生或是20班增設一名營養師這是我們草案的內容所以說人力要怎麼去補足這部分是屬於地方的事情還是說我們中央就立一個規範然後經費部分就是由地方來做處理"},{"start":16189.571,"end":16210.88,"text":"我想我们确实现在在定一个规划就是朝五百五十有一名那当然这一个就地方他当然属于地方的一个自治的权责所以我们当然也会把它纳入一个在未来地方在办理这一个营养午餐的时候确保这一个学童用的安全用的放心是健康的"},{"start":16211.68,"end":16233.311,"text":"好的一個品質所以這些都是變成我們在未來對地方的推動營養午餐的一個檢核的指標對 我是覺得說是可以做一個規範性因為之前的話就是說比如說按照這個比例的話我們要新增 新聘大概200多位營養師那時候教育部有提到說那會增加大概2.7億的經費"},{"start":16235.092,"end":16253.769,"text":"整个加起来可能会多达二十几亿如果说这个专法定了之后但是呢我是觉得利用这个机会好好的去跟地方政府谈比如说大家如果认为说我看很多委员版本也都是跟我们这个专法一样550名学生或20班然后这个偏远地区再做一个调整"},{"start":16254.289,"end":16282.031,"text":"然後這個經費這個地方怎麼樣去做處理我覺得就是讓地方政府了解說我們中央有這個規範這是第一個第二個就是說這個三張EQ因為現在據我了解六都的話它應該都有編列的這個預算因為本來是由政府中央政府來出那現在是不是我了解是六都都已經有編列預算但是我不知道非六都的到底有沒有把這個三張EQ都把它編進去"},{"start":16282.847,"end":16307.527,"text":"今年度跟委員報告我們會後我們會全面的了解初步的理解是地方是有編的但是是不是22個縣市全我講我們的訊息都是有的但是我們可以來檢視更詳細的檢視他15年的一個預算跟114裡面在這個部分是不是一致目前還沒有還沒有這個資料就對了"},{"start":16308.416,"end":16325.705,"text":"下班前可以提問給我們因為我們是想了解主席不好意思我就最後這個問題把它問好就是說我們是希望就是說營養午餐現在就是如果有家長不用出了政府來出地方政府來出但是不要影響到這個三張EQ這個政策"},{"start":16326.945,"end":16342.455,"text":"我們的立場是跟委員是一致的我有擔心說有些地方政府他的財力比較不夠但是因為大家都有了他也不好意思說沒有會有壓力但是實際上過去這筆預算是由中央來出但是現在要由地方來出會不會因為有一個地方"},{"start":16342.975,"end":16370.334,"text":"因为这个阴阳午餐全面由政府地方政府来补助他们为了守住这个地方政府补助但是我们原来有的这个三张EQ因为我们这个没有强制性我们只是说希望这样子做过去也是由中央政府来补我们担心说这样子会让这些非六都的这些县市的孩子们可能在这个三张EQ这方面的食材就没有了"},{"start":16371.192,"end":16387.294,"text":"跟委員報告委員所擔心我們當然希望這一個地方政府也能夠理解我們331QB或委員所關鍵是38億本來在這個中央的統籌分配管就直接撥到地方了所以我們也提醒地方縣市交易局處"},{"start":16387.935,"end":16414.167,"text":"就有一個有一些屬於教育部原來的一般補助的這些錢變成中央統籌款的時候你也一定要把這一個經費匡列在你們年度的預算也要跟地方縣市首長讓他們充分的了解對 那所以部長你剛才也是說你要提醒或是說這個讓他們知道但是呢這個其實都沒有強制性我們會納入年度的考核跟資訊的揭露我想"},{"start":16414.967,"end":16433.405,"text":"來自於明顯的縣市所長他必須要對縣市的一個家長來負責任嘛是沒錯那所以我說為什麼這個時機點就是來討論253專法因為你如果在專法裡面其實你如果沒有列出來的話那地方政府就會說我想做但是我真的沒有錢啊減額的機制我們也會跟地方來來討論然後"},{"start":16435.507,"end":16456.185,"text":"希望能够建立共识在未来每一年里边我们会把地方在实时在推动好了 再顺便答复好了不难讲完就可以了的一个成效我们也希望能够透过知性结构跟能够甚至编一些这个经会来奖励这些办得好的公司"},{"start":16456.745,"end":16483.395,"text":"縣市那我覺得說既然因為財化法重新修正了我們這一個部裡面的專法我覺得就做必要的調整跟修正我還是希望說有這個部的專法送到行政院那邊之後還沒有送到立法院來之前其實都可以再做調整好不好我無力好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝李昆城委員部長請回座"},{"start":16484.349,"end":16490.831,"text":"我們休息一下休息一下五分鐘就是大家洗洗手一下好"},{"start":16807.008,"end":16824.938,"text":"好 我們繼續開會請陳培宇委員發言 質詢時間4分鐘好 謝謝主席那我們請署長好了啦 署長你可能更熟來 國教署署長 部長你休息署長你應該知道這一題你超熟"},{"start":16826.476,"end":16845.416,"text":"好 來署長已經很多人問過營養午餐了我就直接跟你說我覺得剛剛昆城委員講了也很多不管是三張EQ或是營養師的配套那我要告訴你們的是我認為這個免費政策它就必須搭配配套我再說一次免費的營養午餐政策它就必須搭配配套"},{"start":16845.856,"end":16871.568,"text":"但是配套如果回到地方政府的自治事項很多事情他可能就擺爛不管尤其是如果遇到有人認為自己是財政困難的縣市或是直接想要丟包給中央那我覺得我們就先預先來做好準備我們來看下一張目前在營養午餐的相關辦法裡面我們都說學生的午餐費是由學校納入代收代辦費向學生收取或是主管機關補助我認為因為是代辦費"},{"start":16872.848,"end":16888.075,"text":"所以相關的心態在過去有很多的事情需要討論跟檢討所以我也想要請署長你說說看我們未來如何定義這個代收代辦的事情還是它再也不會出現代收代辦但一旦一個台灣有22種制度的時候我們又該怎麼辦"},{"start":16890.991,"end":16911.483,"text":"好 謝謝維恩你這個問題很細也很重要首先縣市可能會涉及到辦法的修訂是第二點縣市在處理的過程中我們可能會看看它有沒有一個機制是會不會受到預算的限制而影響到食材所以它有沒有一個彈性調節的機制第三點"},{"start":16914.045,"end":16933.467,"text":"可能在未來食品的品質上要連同我們原來已給的74億它是不是有至少有個矩陣它有融入或不能夠把它消掉吃掉了然後我說的吃掉是指它沒邊或是等等像這些我們最近都在瞭解跟查查"},{"start":16934.148,"end":16958.903,"text":"目前發現他們都有編但是我們要查他的數額那一起來合作以上大概三點是比較關鍵的部分我覺得確實是這樣可是因為一旦一個台灣有22種做法的時候確實要拜託國教署這邊要更積極協助地方政府不要到時候變成相關新聞事件的時候可能又會再次出現花蓮的孩子台東的孩子可能放那個餐盤上一看跟台北小孩又不一樣"},{"start":16959.443,"end":16981.911,"text":"当年苏贞昌院长就是为了解决这个问题所以我们引进三张EQ然后地区盖很棒的中央厨房可是我很怕这个事情在未来它可能又变成另外一个喂爆弹谢谢署长我们一起努力谢谢委员好 接下来我们来谈厨余的问题因为厨余的问题过去好像只在教育部这边要做所谓食农教育 习食教育这件事情可是"},{"start":16982.991,"end":17011.038,"text":"為什麼會產生廚餘其實大家都有各自的說法根據我以前在我們自己的孩子學校當營養午餐集合的委員我發現有好幾個問題第一個可能是因為營養基準設計的問題所以我們的餐量其實確實很大當然第二個問題也可能是因為孩子們很挑食或者是煮出來的食物的溫度樣子擺盤孩子都吃不下甚至我們都發現有很多學校會掐頭去尾的減掉孩子的營養午餐用餐時間就是前面上課時間老師耽誤了"},{"start":17012.418,"end":17039.497,"text":"下面后面要用餐结束的时候老师又说提早五分钟要结束所以孩子掐头去尾可能剩下十分钟十五分钟不到甚至有的孩子要用营养午餐的时间拿去补学校的作业我相信只要在场有当过家长小孩吃过学校营养午餐的可能有一百种问题可以解决剩食这个问题但是剩食这个问题我现在想跟署长你讨论我们来看下一张营养午餐的基准有没有机会调整或者是最后除以累加上去的费用"},{"start":17040.037,"end":17069.044,"text":"到底要誰來買單然後未來你們跟環境部跟農業部這邊如何在一年以後據說如果是今年廚餘就要落日了到明年為止我們就不可以再用廚餘去養豬了那學校營養午餐所製造廚餘其實量非常非常的大我相信署長你一定清楚但我認為這個責任不應該是孩子去背因為我們現在看到很多學校為了降低廚餘的數字要讓數字KPI好看他們就跟小孩說你就放在你的碗裡面帶回你家去倒所以學校沒有再產生廚餘了"},{"start":17070.264,"end":17086.497,"text":"我真的不知道該怎麼辦營養午餐有沒有機會調整相關營養基準我覺得都是要一起討論的來 想聽聽看署長您的意見剛剛委員提到三個問題營養基準的部分我們會跟國教署 國健署抱歉 一起來處理 國健署剛剛裡面有包含分量的事情"},{"start":17087.217,"end":17115.118,"text":"對 因為確實很多孩子反應如果按照那個營養午餐基準我再次要說我沒有要挑戰那個基準但是如果按照那個基準那個餐盤擺起來搞不好現場我們很多大人其實是吃不完的好 來 第二個第二個問題是有關學生用餐時間這個目前的情況是大概20到30分鐘我們會跟地方政府持續做很快的檢討在2月底以前跟委員回報這三點是有關廚藥的事情我們會跟環境部一起來處理包含相關的費用還有示範"},{"start":17116.059,"end":17123.221,"text":"以及契約的修訂好 那署長知道我們辦公室會一直關心這個問題我們後續再來討論 謝謝主席 謝謝署長好 謝謝陳培宇委員好 謝謝你很準時 對然後謝謝署長現在請葉元之委員質詢崔教授請召部長 謝謝好 而請鄭部長"},{"start":17153.15,"end":17172.281,"text":"教育部之前是有提高有關於行政人員的工作獎金1000到2000其實要解決行政到逃亡的首要要務還是要做行政減量我是不曉得說教育部有沒有針對行政減量這部分不斷的滾動式檢討"},{"start":17173.427,"end":17190.817,"text":"因為我在跟委員報告我們大概內部有檢討了大概行政檢量交易部前一陣子我們最近的盤點大概有將近7成有69本給本席一份資料好不好我們來看一下好不好因為大家對於行政檢量這個部分還是都覺得不夠"},{"start":17192.157,"end":17218.991,"text":"一堆評鑑一堆各部會寄到教育局的教育部要寄給教育局教育局要寄給學校所以光是辦公文就辦得非常多這個部分給我們一個書面的說明第二件事情是其實我們看到全國各縣市有一些縣市裁員比較好的他們就會針對工作獎金做加碼像台北現在行政工作獎金又加碼1000到3000高雄針對"},{"start":17220.652,"end":17244.986,"text":"行政工作獎金加碼50%那其他縣市如果財政狀況沒有那麼好沒有辦法跟進的就會產生磁吸效應很多老師願意兼行政職的就跑到台北跟高雄去了那我上一次部長沒有來啦是次長來其實我有建議啦我覺得教育部應該去找各縣市政府統一做法啦比如說"},{"start":17246.158,"end":17270.29,"text":"你應該提升到大概行政獎金提升到五千其實上次署長有講大概增加十幾億而已我覺得這個部分應該要做所以是不是請部長看是統一編列還是說再找各縣市不然現在變成大家爭相加碼福利好的就找得到老師福利不好的就找不到這也會造成這個狀況"},{"start":17272.996,"end":17300.875,"text":"跟委員報告教育部確實是定了一個最基本的一個門檻對但是呢我們也看到台北市為什麼最近這個譬如說去年來講他代理代課老師就這個一直找不到是因為我們過去台北市因為他物價比較高各方面都是真的是比較多的一些在生活上的一個費用比較高所以台北當時是代理代課他也給他領"},{"start":17302.296,"end":17329.221,"text":"一年12個月但是我們過去的其他縣市只有09個月所以因為這樣一個落差組長 因為時間有限我們不要講古了我現在是因為上次你沒有來你沒有來我這個建議那個署長都知道再跟您報告好不好上次有提到就是說希望全國的行政獎金都可以提高到5000那我是比較不希望看到就是各縣市的做法就變成說好像沒有加的部分"},{"start":17329.881,"end":17349.455,"text":"就沒有被照顧到我們跟地方縣市來討論部長這個是統一然後再來就是有關於我們今天其實是講營養午餐營養午餐就牽涉到營養師跟伍祕這兩個是我比較關心的比如說營養師現在像團善業者他是自己提供營養師但學校就沒有"},{"start":17350.316,"end":17379.534,"text":"所以学校的营养师这个部分能不能也统一做法在法律还没有修的情况之下先定个办法出来然后第二个是五密五密的做法全国也不一样你看像新北 彰化 嘉义如果你是老师兼五密的话每个人检的授课结束也不一样然后就我了解因为现在各学校他们营养午餐有很多种做法有的是团战业者提供有的是自立厨房有的是中央厨房是几个学校联合起来中央厨房"},{"start":17380.074,"end":17386.155,"text":"那像團散業者的話五密是由團散業者提供就有的學校的老師就不用去監"},{"start":17387.403,"end":17410.001,"text":"所以這個一國多制那是不是教育部也可以訂一個統一的辦法出來就如果是5密的話那你們建議什麼情況之下他可以減時數甚至於我之前有爭取5密如果是老師來兼的話除了減時數之外有沒有可能比照行政給予一定的工作獎金這個部分部長可不可以研究一下"},{"start":17411.263,"end":17438.637,"text":"我想謝謝委員的關心我們當然我們可以來跟地方來這個部分也是大概一個月好不好那五密這個部分我就延伸出其實學校裡面有很多老師兼的行政職他是他並沒有說給予這個一定的比較好的福利跟待遇除了五密我剛剛講了之外比如說導護其實最好就是讓老師不要去兼導護這個以前我跟部長也有提過"},{"start":17439.775,"end":17462.221,"text":"就是讓老師那現在如果說老師一定要兼導護的話他是補修也沒有給予津貼然後另外就是有的老師他是兼社團老師他也是用補修也是沒有給予津貼就是有沒有可能就盤點一下如果老師有額外去兼類似行政工作其實最好是像導護就回歸專業嘛那這可能要"},{"start":17462.921,"end":17474.415,"text":"大刀闊斧的推廣我覺得再不可能又要說時間要拉比較長可是在還沒有達到一定的改革的時候是不是就給予他們比如說一定的工作行政津貼啦這個你也研究一下好不好"},{"start":17475.396,"end":17503.937,"text":"我想这个岛户其实这里边当然有不同的文化里边我们有不同的看法但是跟地方来讨论我想我们也把它一并纳进来一并纳进来 好不好然后再来我们之前教育部有公布说要给国教的老师就是有工作奖金然后导师费也有提高终点费也有提高那其实蛮多幼教幼教界的就在呼吁什么时候轮到幼教"},{"start":17504.935,"end":17525.449,"text":"署長上司的講法好像是說馬上辦法就會訂出來會回溯到去年的9月那要點訂完了待會會後給委員好 那這個部分我想反映一下因為在現在其實幼教缺老師的狀況也是非常嚴重特別是缺教保員那其實在幼稚園裡面教師跟教保員他做的事情"},{"start":17526.508,"end":17550.53,"text":"其實差不多可是第一個他們導師費就不一樣導師費教師就比教保員多然後第二現在教育部一直在推那個身心調適假現在應該是全國各機關其實也不是教育界啦都在推身心調適假但是在幼稚園這一塊教師是有身心調適假可是教保員好像就沒有 對吧"},{"start":17552.845,"end":17569.673,"text":"這個我們都有研議大概跟剛剛講的會後一起給委員有研議是什麼意思有一起要做一些所以教保員之後也會納入申請調適假是不是會一起會是不是會 就是所以第一個就是幼教的福利會提升第二個他們的待遇會"},{"start":17571.295,"end":17596.901,"text":"你可不可以也講一下好不好像剛剛所提到的我們第一個要點對於這一次相關的教保服務費用比照導師費這個我們就已經訂了在上個禮拜發布那另外委員問到身心調適價相關的比照那相關的類型因為它比較細節是不是容我貴後馬上補給我那行政加緊呢也是有"},{"start":17597.481,"end":17606.519,"text":"行政佳績因為它這個涉及到學校的規模它不一定像學校一樣那目前我們對比照的部分是教保費的部分"},{"start":17608.169,"end":17636.421,"text":"教保費的部分所以行政假期目前沒有研究因為行政假期的部分這一個在如果是一般的幼兒園它如果沒有類似這樣的一個情形那一部分的比照它比較看不到我們的研究數據上的連結但是在如果是屬於教保屬於每個班會付出的那個導師那個性質的導師有啦但是因為有的行政是比如說老師兼導師然後還要再兼組長"},{"start":17637.702,"end":17663.408,"text":"那實際這工作是很繁重所以我覺得現在的問題就是在幼兒園裡面很多老師一樣我覺得有的是大環境的影響譬如說現在有些家長跟老師的關係我覺得有時候當然現在因為少子化家長有時候遇到一些狀況可能會去檢舉老師然後讓老師工作壓力變得很大所以"},{"start":17664.452,"end":17685.552,"text":"我知道在幼教圈有一些老師其實他們很喜歡小朋友他們甚至於不想離開這個行業他們也會擔心說如果大家都離開了那小朋友誰來照顧他們捨不得離開可是有時候在工作上面又面臨到一些突而來的壓力也有點委屈其實現在幼教界有一部分士氣是滿低落的"},{"start":17686.753,"end":17700.979,"text":"我覺得有的是大環境的影響可能教育部一時半刻也沒有辦法解決但我們先從比較能夠在短期讓幼教界老師們覺得有被重視有被照顧的這塊切入我是覺得"},{"start":17702.259,"end":17719.306,"text":"比如說既然教育部你們現在都有在研究比如在國教這方面怎麼樣提高老師的待遇然後增加他們的獎金至少我覺得除了錢的問題之外讓他覺得說其實大家是很重視幼教老師讓他們在工作上面"},{"start":17720.106,"end":17741.972,"text":"可以更有热忱所以这个部分我觉得国教署还是要特别注意一下补充10秒委员您刚才所提到整体幼教老师的他所面对的环境以及他爱教育这个我们有一个小组我们会最近在召开第六次会议我把一些会议结果也跟委员呈报然后再来就是"},{"start":17743.221,"end":17752.347,"text":"現在因為現在幼教最關心的就是評鑑現在要針對特生做評鑑嘛 對不對之前是一年一次評鑑再加五年一次基礎評鑑嘛 對不對"},{"start":17754.042,"end":17781.956,"text":"那現在這一次的評鑑委員您可能會提到說大家對那個特教評鑑的一些細節包含可能它太多啦或是它的內容會不會不勝負荷以及它的結果會不會很嚇人這一些跟委員報告我們跟六大團體一起檢討過對每一項指標我們都予以做指標的說明當場都確認了解指標的意義跟我們的說明是否明確如果還需要檢討我們都一樣都從善如流繼續會收集相關意見"},{"start":17783.917,"end":17808.318,"text":"持續檢討因為感覺好像署長您是希望會後補資料那我就再重複一下我需要的資料沒問題我都會記起來第一個就是剛剛所講的全國就是有關於行政家級的這一塊你們做檢討之後你們具體辦法是什麼第二個是針對學校裡面有一些老師兼任的行政工作比如說伍祕 導護 社團老師"},{"start":17810.62,"end":17837.311,"text":"那相對應的應該給予的行政工作獎金有哪一些這個你有在講嗎第三個就是幼教這一塊幼教這一塊就包括比如說幼教教保員跟教師他們的各方面的行政佳績然後以及評鑑你們的檢討這幾項東西會後再補給我需要多少時間一個月有些會比較快的就不用一個月因為你有的已經在手上了既有的資料今天會後就馬上補好 謝謝"},{"start":17842.11,"end":17870.18,"text":"好謝謝葉元之委員那部長署長請回座現在請蘇清泉委員質詢蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在請鄭正前委員質詢鄭正前鄭正前委員不在請徐欣盈委員質詢徐欣盈委員"},{"start":17871.61,"end":17890.463,"text":"徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在請陳冠廷委員質詢你好我們請部長好有請鄭部長"},{"start":17897.799,"end":17923.926,"text":"委員好部長好部長現在這個免費的營養午餐它是屬於地方政府的權責嗎是那我想教育部的重點現在是三張EQ就是食安的把關跟飲食教育那可是我想要請教的是說現在各地方有的推免費有的是部分免費等於說現在一國多制教育部要怎麼樣做協調避免說所有的壓力最後就到學校跟老師上面"},{"start":17924.226,"end":17951.386,"text":"因为有些县市它是基本上全面免费那有一些不是那不是的这些学校变成说第一线要怎么样跟这些学生的家长来去沟通我想这个部分我想请教一下因为我今天的立场非常清楚就是我首先除了这个一国多志的问题之外我也要替第一线的老师发声因为现在的不管是部分免费或是全部免费那营养午餐的话都是限于学生那很多老师他不但"},{"start":17951.826,"end":17966.437,"text":"他要自己 自費就算了還要把行政的時間要去顧這些同學們所以等於是說我們的教師他除了教學工作之外行政的工作 包含營養午餐他需要的配膳的協調 特殊的飲食"},{"start":17967.037,"end":17990.828,"text":"還有退餐 聖餐 會生 集合還有跟家長的溝通等等最後都變成導師跟行政同仁再去吸收這方面的隱形的成本所以我想請教部長有兩個部分第一個是不是可以要求地方在推動免費或者是擴大工餐的時候來去同步處理午餐相關作業的工作量的這種支持的配套或者是在行政上面"},{"start":17991.548,"end":17998.504,"text":"提供一些佳績讓這些負責行政工作的老師同仁們能夠不要在教學以外還要負擔這麼重"},{"start":18003.564,"end":18026.122,"text":"委員剛才所提到了從包含人力甚至作業流程等等那我分兩點來說明第一個我們會把一個午餐公餐的從買到最後到餐桌上這個大概有八個動作我們會把這八個動作不管你是公辦公營公辦民營或是團善"},{"start":18026.863,"end":18042.706,"text":"每一個公餐類型它的八個動作應該怎麼做我們都會予以律定但這個過程我們會找專家跟地方政府作為我們平和的依據也是維繫把關的一個基準"},{"start":18043.467,"end":18065.98,"text":"第二点中间会涉及到有关人力的付出这些付出可能我们会持续跟地方政府不必有专法的时候专法可能还要一点时间但是有些重要的事情我们马上要做这我们跟地方政府部长也要求我们跟地方政府赶快继续洽谈就有一些可以先做的就不等我们用措施来达成品质谢谢"},{"start":18066.46,"end":18084.606,"text":"好那再针对另外一个事情跟今天的主题也是类似但是我还是要提到导师教师的这个权益我们上次我们讨论导师费的一些终点费的调整那我知道教育部他是花很多的力气去争取资源那额度大家还是有所期待"},{"start":18085.626,"end":18106.661,"text":"之前這個次長也說可能會持續的調整滾動 滾動調整但是我現在有另外一件事情我覺得可以立即來去協助到學校的行政人員的那就是改善他們的辦公環境跟設備那以目前我們加一線為例各校的行政這個的環境大概都還是二三十年前的成設這個我是直接從校長那邊聽到"},{"start":18107.822,"end":18133.247,"text":"那有些行政電腦基本上是教學端汰換下來的二手電腦讓他們再繼續來執行這些行政事務所以在這樣的硬頂條件下他們要處理的工作確實越來越多從採購核銷公文 午餐行政我剛才提到的社團活動 校務系統我覺得這些壓力是非常大那我們不可能一方面要行政同仁專業化數位化跟效率化然後一方面叫他們再用老舊的空間二手設備下硬撐"},{"start":18134.187,"end":18162.316,"text":"那另外一點就是現在的這個偏鄉三年兩百萬的經費他主要是運用在改善教學環境跟設備他沒有辦法拿來全面翻新我們行政場域行政辦公場域所以關鍵的是除了我剛剛提到的這些偏鄉之外飛山飛市的學校三年是只有100萬這個在實務上面我不覺得能夠有有效的來去改善他們的這個辦公空間行政空間那"},{"start":18164.246,"end":18190.968,"text":"我想請教部長 這個改善調整你待遇 他要時間甚至是需要更多的法條上面的改善可是改善辦公環境跟設備 這個是可以先做那也是最能夠提升行政效能的或者是同仁工作品質的事項所以我想說如果能夠願意讓擔任行政工作的同仁能夠有一個更至少更舒適的一個辦公環境 更有效率的辦公環境這部分部長怎麼看"},{"start":18192.495,"end":18208.929,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心特別這個偏鄉或者非商非市我們的一個態度也跟委員是一致的我們怎麼樣去讓他們有一個相對好的教學環境工作的一個條件這我們這個中央跟地方因為"},{"start":18210.154,"end":18232.558,"text":"跟委員是一致的我們來看怎麼樣來協助這一個剛才所提的說偏鄉則三年才兩百萬然後商會市的才一百萬我想這我們會針對這個實際的這個縣市的這些狀況來給以從中央跟地方來合作看怎麼樣來協助來提升他們一個教學環境跟工作的一個條件"},{"start":18233.018,"end":18251.534,"text":"教學環境是教研環境當然行政空間還有是另外一個領域我想這個部分我們會跟地方一起來合作來努力特別我們知道嘉義縣它確實是一個產業結構跟這一個偏鄉山上的學校相對是多的而且其實在邏輯上面來講行政空間的改善不管是在飛山"},{"start":18253.156,"end":18276.298,"text":"還是在這個偏鄉或者是在獨衛區我想大家的標準理論上是應該是要一致的因為他們都還是要做行政未來這些200萬或者100萬可以更彈性的一些應用我想就我們來調整就上次我們講到50班以下50班以上那時候我們跟次長在談的時候我們就發覺到說因為有些學校小學校但是因為老師也少"},{"start":18276.678,"end":18297.647,"text":"是他平均所分擔的公務其實是更多的可是因為他的班數比較少反而他得到的這個補貼補給是比較多的這是有點不太公平所以這方面還是希望全部的閉路考量好謝謝委員提醒謝謝我們來努力好謝謝陳冠廷委員質詢那部長署長請回座謝謝"},{"start":18301.141,"end":18329.919,"text":"今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢另有林倩琦委員 林佩祥委員 徐欣怡委員提出了書面質詢關於今天的會議做成如下的決定報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢和相關資料列入記錄並刊載公報對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或為其答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆"},{"start":18331.53,"end":18336.715,"text":"好 報告委員會 今天議程處理完畢現在三位 謝謝各位行政官員都辛苦了 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"17212","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17212","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc831044d4eb4d2098d3d7714f303f762a0a219bd209750d2d618f8f8ea5acf4155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：一、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部組織法第二條、第五條及第八條條文修正草案」案等16案。\n二、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持署組織法草案」案等14案。\n三、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部長期照顧及社會發展署組織法草案」案等12案。\n四、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部中央健康保險署組織法第二條條文修正草案」案等8案。\n五、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例草案」案等8案。\n六、繼續併案審查行政院函請審議「國家中醫研究院設置條例草案」案等14案。\n【詳見議事日程】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-19","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-19T08:32:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:21:00+08:00","duration":17340,"影片長度":"04:49:00","委員發言時間":"08:32:00 - 13:21:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[36,26],"id":"聯席會議-11-4-36,26-2"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1662.9947187500002,"end":1667.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1667.8040937500002,"end":1673.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1674.2334687500002,"end":1674.2503437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1674.2503437500002,"end":1674.3009687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1674.3009687500003,"end":1699.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1677.6253437500002,"end":1677.6759687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1699.3940937500001,"end":1750.9978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1699.4278437500002,"end":1699.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1752.95534375,"end":1752.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1752.9722187500001,"end":1766.1347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1766.8940937500001,"end":1770.5897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1774.0659687500001,"end":1788.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1789.77659375,"end":1793.9109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1794.9572187500003,"end":1803.8840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1808.47409375,"end":1872.0253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1873.6959687500002,"end":1876.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1883.87159375,"end":1886.0315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1886.9428437500003,"end":1937.7872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1937.9728437500003,"end":1940.1665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1940.7234687500002,"end":1946.3428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1946.4609687500001,"end":1958.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1958.7290937500002,"end":2024.0353437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2025.0140937500003,"end":2027.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2028.0853437500002,"end":2040.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2040.8934687500002,"end":2045.2134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2047.5928437500002,"end":2055.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2059.23659375,"end":2061.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2059.96221875,"end":2060.4178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2066.8640937500004,"end":2071.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2072.14596875,"end":2198.4890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2200.39596875,"end":2208.1922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2209.42409375,"end":2213.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2215.1953437500006,"end":2216.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2217.3047187500006,"end":2217.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2217.9628437500005,"end":2218.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2218.9753437500003,"end":2219.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2219.75159375,"end":2221.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2221.84409375,"end":2221.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2222.43471875,"end":2223.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2223.1434687500005,"end":2226.3328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2227.76721875,"end":2234.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2234.9559687500005,"end":2256.2184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2256.74159375,"end":2291.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2292.04409375,"end":2362.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2362.7840937500005,"end":2392.6190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2393.78346875,"end":2404.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2404.65096875,"end":2419.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2419.5515937500004,"end":2425.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2426.57159375,"end":2520.2109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2520.76784375,"end":2522.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2523.5859687500006,"end":2526.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2526.50534375,"end":2527.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2528.4628437500005,"end":2589.9890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2570.85284375,"end":2570.8865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2590.1072187500004,"end":2626.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2627.7890937500006,"end":2667.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2670.41534375,"end":2675.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2675.7478437500004,"end":2676.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2678.4815937500007,"end":2679.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2679.69659375,"end":2682.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2683.56096875,"end":2685.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2687.4928437500002,"end":2687.9990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2688.25221875,"end":2695.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2695.8290937500005,"end":2696.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2696.92596875,"end":2697.5672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2698.57971875,"end":2699.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2701.7184687500003,"end":2702.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2703.1865937500006,"end":2707.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2708.21534375,"end":2714.1553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2716.6697187500004,"end":2717.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2718.5597187500007,"end":2720.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2723.89221875,"end":2729.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2729.8659687500003,"end":2731.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2732.4140937500006,"end":2734.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2735.7722187500003,"end":2735.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2736.29534375,"end":2739.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2739.11346875,"end":2739.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2741.6953437500006,"end":2744.3278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2744.4459687500002,"end":2745.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2746.6397187500006,"end":2751.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2751.60096875,"end":2752.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2753.1365937500004,"end":2757.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2758.2159687500007,"end":2758.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2760.1397187500006,"end":2760.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2761.0340937500005,"end":2765.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2767.0584687500004,"end":2769.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2769.9609687500006,"end":2770.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2771.56409375,"end":2772.1378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2772.5934687500003,"end":2774.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2774.38221875,"end":2777.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2778.0440937500007,"end":2779.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2780.0690937500003,"end":2780.6934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2798.3278437500003,"end":2822.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2823.7247187500006,"end":2824.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2824.9903437500006,"end":2828.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2828.7872187500006,"end":2829.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2830.1709687500006,"end":2856.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2858.5547187500006,"end":2860.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2862.0478437500005,"end":2862.8240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2863.7184687500003,"end":2864.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2866.53659375,"end":2867.5997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2867.68409375,"end":2870.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2871.0928437500006,"end":2871.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2871.6159687500003,"end":2871.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2872.0378437500003,"end":2872.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2872.4090937500005,"end":2874.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2874.4509687500004,"end":2875.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2877.25221875,"end":2878.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2896.8778437500005,"end":2896.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2896.97909375,"end":2897.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2902.2440937500005,"end":2906.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2905.95659375,"end":2906.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2908.3359687500006,"end":2909.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2915.40659375,"end":2916.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2919.2372187500005,"end":2920.6378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2921.98784375,"end":2924.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2928.8728437500004,"end":2929.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2932.04534375,"end":2937.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2936.31471875,"end":2936.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2938.25534375,"end":2941.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2941.3097187500007,"end":2951.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2952.5147187500006,"end":2953.8815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2954.40471875,"end":2956.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2955.0459687500006,"end":2957.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2958.5390937500006,"end":2958.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2958.7753437500005,"end":2958.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2958.8259687500004,"end":2958.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2958.85971875,"end":2959.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2973.2878437500003,"end":2973.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2974.18221875,"end":2977.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2977.5740937500004,"end":2978.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2978.99159375,"end":2980.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2980.8309687500005,"end":2981.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2988.0534687500003,"end":2989.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2989.79159375,"end":2991.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2992.1034687500005,"end":2992.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2992.86284375,"end":2994.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2994.55034375,"end":2994.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2996.1872187500003,"end":2997.1659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3000.7265937500006,"end":3002.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3003.29159375,"end":3008.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3008.35409375,"end":3009.0459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3011.29034375,"end":3012.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3015.1378437500007,"end":3019.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3019.54221875,"end":3021.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3019.91346875,"end":3020.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3021.3984687500006,"end":3021.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3022.4278437500006,"end":3024.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3024.0478437500005,"end":3024.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3025.02659375,"end":3029.4815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3029.8359687500006,"end":3031.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3031.91159375,"end":3036.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3036.60284375,"end":3037.9022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3038.8640937500004,"end":3041.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3041.8172187500004,"end":3042.5428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3044.0615937500006,"end":3045.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3049.56284375,"end":3050.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3052.3809687500006,"end":3053.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3053.37659375,"end":3053.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3055.6715937500003,"end":3058.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3059.51909375,"end":3061.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3062.4215937500003,"end":3064.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3066.15096875,"end":3070.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3072.7997187500005,"end":3073.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3074.7740937500002,"end":3076.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3077.35596875,"end":3085.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3085.65846875,"end":3086.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3086.7215937500005,"end":3087.9197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3088.1559687500003,"end":3095.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3096.6103437500005,"end":3099.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3100.25534375,"end":3101.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3101.4365937500006,"end":3102.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3103.02284375,"end":3104.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3104.7272187500002,"end":3105.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3105.8240937500004,"end":3106.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3106.8534687500005,"end":3108.1697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3108.4734687500004,"end":3108.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3109.2665937500005,"end":3109.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3109.7390937500004,"end":3110.8190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3112.1690937500007,"end":3112.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3115.2740937500002,"end":3117.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3120.7247187500006,"end":3121.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3126.9347187500007,"end":3127.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3127.9978437500004,"end":3128.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3131.28846875,"end":3134.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3136.41846875,"end":3137.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3137.1609687500004,"end":3138.3253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3138.9834687500006,"end":3139.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3142.5778437500003,"end":3148.2647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3148.5515937500004,"end":3165.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3165.71346875,"end":3222.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3221.5359687500004,"end":3221.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3222.78471875,"end":3295.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3296.9840937500003,"end":3297.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3297.0009687500005,"end":3299.4815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3299.8359687500006,"end":3320.8790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3322.8028437500006,"end":3323.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3323.2247187500006,"end":3324.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3324.2540937500007,"end":3335.6447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3324.6084687500006,"end":3324.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3334.32846875,"end":3335.2565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3336.2184687500003,"end":3337.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3337.9734687500004,"end":3338.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3338.12534375,"end":3340.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3338.91846875,"end":3339.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3339.5934687500003,"end":3341.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3342.3947187500007,"end":3347.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3354.4434687500006,"end":3354.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3364.4840937500003,"end":3369.8165937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3370.1034687500005,"end":3372.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3373.15784375,"end":3611.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3612.0234687500006,"end":3667.4747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3668.3184687500006,"end":3677.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3678.51096875,"end":3682.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3683.3709687500004,"end":3690.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3690.4247187500005,"end":3706.3209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3706.4728437500007,"end":3734.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3734.56971875,"end":3738.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3738.92346875,"end":3760.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3760.96221875,"end":3764.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3766.27784375,"end":3767.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3766.56471875,"end":3767.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3767.3409687500007,"end":3768.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3768.03284375,"end":3768.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3770.8847187500005,"end":3774.3272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3773.3484687500004,"end":3775.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3775.4747187500006,"end":3775.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3776.2340937500003,"end":3778.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3777.71909375,"end":3780.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3780.3515937500006,"end":3780.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3781.2459687500004,"end":3791.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3791.5397187500002,"end":3807.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3807.79034375,"end":3811.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3812.31284375,"end":3813.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3813.71346875,"end":3846.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3846.2822187500005,"end":3858.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3858.97221875,"end":3864.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3865.3678437500002,"end":3874.8347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3875.2059687500005,"end":3884.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3885.06096875,"end":3902.9315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3903.26909375,"end":3903.7584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3904.3828437500006,"end":3916.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3917.0897187500004,"end":3976.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3976.6415937500005,"end":3982.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3982.8009687500007,"end":3982.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3982.88534375,"end":3989.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3990.0740937500004,"end":4002.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4002.8990937500002,"end":4013.6315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4013.85096875,"end":4015.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4015.2684687500005,"end":4017.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4018.3565937500007,"end":4018.5759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4019.26784375,"end":4030.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4031.0128437500007,"end":4047.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4048.44471875,"end":4062.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4063.8009687500007,"end":4064.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4071.6140937500004,"end":4073.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4074.97221875,"end":4076.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4076.7272187500002,"end":4079.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4080.08534375,"end":4090.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4092.03284375,"end":4094.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4094.7497187500003,"end":4103.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4094.91846875,"end":4094.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4104.48659375,"end":4139.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4141.45971875,"end":4224.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4224.95721875,"end":4261.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4261.98096875,"end":4262.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4262.55471875,"end":4262.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4262.571593750001,"end":4262.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4262.87534375,"end":4263.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4264.259093750001,"end":4264.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4264.27596875,"end":4270.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4270.9247187500005,"end":4285.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4285.79159375,"end":4290.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4290.786593750001,"end":4350.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4350.692843750001,"end":4372.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4372.815968749999,"end":4384.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4384.74659375,"end":4389.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4389.640343749999,"end":4394.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4396.120343750001,"end":4422.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4422.34409375,"end":4445.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4446.137843750001,"end":4450.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4453.66409375,"end":4455.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4457.49471875,"end":4463.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4463.97471875,"end":4467.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4467.417218750001,"end":4469.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4469.577218750001,"end":4471.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4471.8553437499995,"end":4505.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4505.68971875,"end":4526.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4529.87159375,"end":4529.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4529.888468749999,"end":4531.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4532.72346875,"end":4533.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4534.343468749999,"end":4562.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4562.8622187500005,"end":4563.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4563.874718749999,"end":4572.362843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4572.599093750001,"end":4575.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4575.80534375,"end":4577.610968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4577.897843750001,"end":4604.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4604.847218749999,"end":4607.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4607.935343749999,"end":4619.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4619.83221875,"end":4625.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4626.02534375,"end":4649.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4649.86971875,"end":4657.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4657.88534375,"end":4675.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4675.23284375,"end":4677.831593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4677.882218750001,"end":4682.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4683.417218750001,"end":4691.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4691.55096875,"end":4694.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4694.72346875,"end":4704.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4704.62909375,"end":4713.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4713.876593749999,"end":4716.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4716.66096875,"end":4718.095343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4718.382218750001,"end":4722.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4722.651593750001,"end":4723.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4723.61346875,"end":4764.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4765.0584687499995,"end":4771.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4772.58471875,"end":4788.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4789.4090937500005,"end":4791.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4791.839093750001,"end":4795.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4795.80471875,"end":4798.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4799.41596875,"end":4800.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4800.597218750001,"end":4803.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4803.837218750001,"end":4805.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4806.06471875,"end":4833.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4834.14471875,"end":4839.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4839.409718750001,"end":4851.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4839.460343750001,"end":4839.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4843.42596875,"end":4843.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4844.944718750001,"end":4845.079718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4854.462218750001,"end":4854.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4857.29721875,"end":4865.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4865.39721875,"end":4878.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4879.673468749999,"end":4891.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4899.34971875,"end":4903.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4903.56846875,"end":4906.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4907.331593750001,"end":4916.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4917.642218749999,"end":4921.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4923.2615937499995,"end":4933.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4933.36971875,"end":4934.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4934.82096875,"end":4944.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4945.401593750001,"end":4945.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4948.017218749999,"end":4948.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4948.05096875,"end":4948.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4948.9959687499995,"end":4949.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5033.894093750001,"end":5036.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5041.23471875,"end":5041.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5044.08659375,"end":5049.267218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5055.94971875,"end":5056.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5057.232218749999,"end":5062.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5063.3915937500005,"end":5065.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5065.78784375,"end":5066.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5066.86784375,"end":5068.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5069.280968749999,"end":5073.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5074.022843750001,"end":5087.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5088.40034375,"end":5093.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5093.96909375,"end":5097.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5098.019093750001,"end":5099.470343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5110.27034375,"end":5116.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5117.86409375,"end":5119.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5120.54721875,"end":5124.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5126.97659375,"end":5128.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5133.2372187500005,"end":5145.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5147.73284375,"end":5150.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5151.39471875,"end":5154.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5156.389718750001,"end":5156.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5161.064093749999,"end":5162.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5163.6122187500005,"end":5164.439093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5164.6415937500005,"end":5177.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5178.4959687499995,"end":5181.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5182.1747187500005,"end":5183.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5184.604718750001,"end":5189.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5189.937218749999,"end":5191.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5191.55721875,"end":5192.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5192.78909375,"end":5193.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5194.00409375,"end":5196.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5197.075343750001,"end":5204.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5204.63534375,"end":5205.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5206.55909375,"end":5207.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5208.29721875,"end":5209.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5209.529093749999,"end":5211.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5211.94221875,"end":5213.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5213.241593750001,"end":5213.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5214.52409375,"end":5216.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5217.038468750001,"end":5218.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5218.9959687499995,"end":5221.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5221.32471875,"end":5223.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5223.6365937499995,"end":5224.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5224.919093750001,"end":5227.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5227.349093750001,"end":5229.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5230.18409375,"end":5236.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5237.6259687500005,"end":5248.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5248.84784375,"end":5254.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5254.298468749999,"end":5255.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5256.10409375,"end":5258.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5258.68596875,"end":5261.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5261.40284375,"end":5261.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5261.82471875,"end":5262.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5263.56284375,"end":5264.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5264.946593750001,"end":5265.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5265.90846875,"end":5267.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5268.01784375,"end":5268.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5269.249718749999,"end":5286.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5286.34409375,"end":5290.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5290.88346875,"end":5296.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5296.823468750001,"end":5297.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5299.32096875,"end":5302.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5302.577843749999,"end":5305.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5305.9697187500005,"end":5318.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5318.77784375,"end":5322.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5322.72659375,"end":5323.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5324.31284375,"end":5329.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5330.235968749999,"end":5330.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5332.581593750001,"end":5333.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5333.40846875,"end":5335.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5335.669718749999,"end":5336.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5336.96909375,"end":5337.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5337.087218750001,"end":5341.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5345.4403437500005,"end":5349.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5349.76034375,"end":5351.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5351.194718750001,"end":5352.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5352.84846875,"end":5361.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5361.96096875,"end":5363.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5363.5809687500005,"end":5365.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5365.0322187500005,"end":5365.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5365.04909375,"end":5365.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5365.97721875,"end":5366.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5366.97284375,"end":5370.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5383.98284375,"end":5401.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5402.140343749999,"end":5402.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5404.09784375,"end":5407.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5408.68784375,"end":5409.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5413.9022187499995,"end":5417.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5418.30659375,"end":5422.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6101.6259687500005,"end":6103.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6109.42221875,"end":6112.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6117.690968750001,"end":6117.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6117.77534375,"end":6117.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6117.94409375,"end":6117.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6122.1122187500005,"end":6123.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6123.1415937500005,"end":6127.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6138.53159375,"end":6155.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6156.4697187500005,"end":6156.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6157.583468750001,"end":6159.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6165.784718750001,"end":6166.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6170.982218749999,"end":6172.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6174.34034375,"end":6180.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6181.731593750001,"end":6182.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6183.4697187500005,"end":6184.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6184.583468750001,"end":6185.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6188.565968750001,"end":6191.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6192.092843750001,"end":6193.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6194.7928437499995,"end":6195.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6195.974093750001,"end":6198.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6198.977843750001,"end":6202.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6205.862843750001,"end":6222.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6223.446593750001,"end":6244.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6246.2615937499995,"end":6265.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6265.78596875,"end":6268.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6269.380343750001,"end":6270.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6271.169093750001,"end":6272.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6275.050343750001,"end":6277.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6277.09221875,"end":6277.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6279.218468749999,"end":6279.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6279.505343750001,"end":6280.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6281.41221875,"end":6283.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6284.1122187500005,"end":6289.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6289.444718750001,"end":6292.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6293.73096875,"end":6295.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6296.7684687500005,"end":6299.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6300.042218750001,"end":6300.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6301.442843750001,"end":6303.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6303.653468750001,"end":6305.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6305.72909375,"end":6308.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6308.985968750001,"end":6310.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6317.49096875,"end":6317.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6317.8622187500005,"end":6331.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6333.62346875,"end":6334.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6338.2978437500005,"end":6340.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6340.69409375,"end":6342.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6354.76784375,"end":6363.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6364.55534375,"end":6365.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6367.440968750001,"end":6376.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6378.359093749999,"end":6381.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6382.89846875,"end":6390.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6390.86346875,"end":6399.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6396.58409375,"end":6396.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6398.72721875,"end":6398.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6399.19971875,"end":6399.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6399.233468750001,"end":6399.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6399.33471875,"end":6456.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6457.13159375,"end":6465.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6466.83471875,"end":6466.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6466.9697187500005,"end":6467.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6467.003468750001,"end":6467.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6467.22284375,"end":6467.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6467.54346875,"end":6467.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6467.96534375,"end":6478.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6479.372843749999,"end":6497.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6497.564093750001,"end":6504.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6504.63471875,"end":6507.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6507.01409375,"end":6508.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6507.85784375,"end":6518.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6518.96159375,"end":6520.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6520.919093750001,"end":6536.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6538.75596875,"end":6541.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6542.60346875,"end":6552.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6553.60596875,"end":6568.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6568.8778437500005,"end":6578.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6579.171593749999,"end":6626.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6626.87721875,"end":6646.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6646.33409375,"end":6653.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6654.130343750001,"end":6670.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6671.96721875,"end":6678.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6678.43034375,"end":6678.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6678.71721875,"end":6682.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6682.46346875,"end":6683.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6683.96534375,"end":6708.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6708.9403437500005,"end":6803.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6786.29534375,"end":6786.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6803.67659375,"end":6803.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6803.9803437499995,"end":6849.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6849.94784375,"end":6867.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6868.1728437500005,"end":6996.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6996.70971875,"end":7007.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7007.17221875,"end":7047.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7048.3134687500005,"end":7051.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7052.987843750001,"end":7069.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7069.98096875,"end":7097.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7097.53784375,"end":7104.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7104.86159375,"end":7117.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7117.36596875,"end":7140.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7141.024718750001,"end":7150.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7151.82471875,"end":7190.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7190.7215937500005,"end":7230.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7230.360968750001,"end":7260.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7260.90471875,"end":7319.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7319.747843749999,"end":7326.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7326.970343750001,"end":7346.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7346.78159375,"end":7368.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7368.66846875,"end":7376.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7377.10596875,"end":7399.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7399.9715937500005,"end":7402.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7402.6209687499995,"end":7410.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7410.7040937500005,"end":7414.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7414.78784375,"end":7419.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7419.68159375,"end":7431.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7432.1522187499995,"end":7439.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7439.96534375,"end":7460.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7461.312218750001,"end":7477.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7478.2040937500005,"end":7479.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7479.58784375,"end":7481.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7481.83221875,"end":7487.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7487.890343750001,"end":7492.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7493.3915937500005,"end":7512.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7513.69221875,"end":7522.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7523.64846875,"end":7538.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7538.667218750001,"end":7546.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7547.003468750001,"end":7550.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7550.63159375,"end":7565.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7565.616593750001,"end":7578.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7578.71159375,"end":7580.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7581.85034375,"end":7601.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7602.134093750001,"end":7613.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7613.288468750001,"end":7616.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7620.47721875,"end":7621.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7621.590968750001,"end":7622.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7622.97471875,"end":7623.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7623.1434687500005,"end":7633.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7633.04909375,"end":7645.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7646.481593750001,"end":7650.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7653.417218750001,"end":7655.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7656.134093750001,"end":7660.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7661.7197187500005,"end":7679.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7680.29909375,"end":7686.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7688.753468750001,"end":7691.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7692.14534375,"end":7692.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7698.49034375,"end":7702.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7703.755343750001,"end":7704.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7705.79721875,"end":7774.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7775.32221875,"end":7784.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7784.60346875,"end":7797.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7799.13284375,"end":7821.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7821.593468750001,"end":7829.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7828.950968749999,"end":7836.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7830.4697187500005,"end":7831.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7833.8447187500005,"end":7834.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7836.359093750001,"end":7837.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7837.118468750001,"end":7839.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7838.991593750001,"end":7842.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7842.72096875,"end":7847.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7851.25971875,"end":7851.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7851.276593750001,"end":7854.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7851.63096875,"end":7852.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7855.03971875,"end":7856.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7856.474093750001,"end":7861.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7864.0340937500005,"end":7866.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7867.814093750001,"end":7871.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7871.27346875,"end":7872.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7872.218468750001,"end":7875.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7875.52596875,"end":7876.251593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7876.639718750001,"end":7883.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7883.609093750001,"end":7884.689093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7884.99284375,"end":7901.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7901.49659375,"end":7901.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7902.71159375,"end":7908.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7913.83221875,"end":7923.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7924.32846875,"end":7927.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7928.68221875,"end":7931.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7932.42846875,"end":7942.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7943.97096875,"end":7960.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7960.74471875,"end":7965.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7966.43159375,"end":7970.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7970.802218750001,"end":7970.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7974.66659375,"end":7986.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7977.079718750001,"end":7979.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7979.577218750001,"end":7979.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7990.022843750001,"end":8003.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8005.59846875,"end":8008.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8009.41221875,"end":8010.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8011.36971875,"end":8013.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8014.69409375,"end":8016.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8016.39846875,"end":8020.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8020.296593750001,"end":8021.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8021.342843750001,"end":8031.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8031.95721875,"end":8032.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8033.49284375,"end":8036.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8036.715968750001,"end":8038.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8038.251593750001,"end":8038.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8038.99409375,"end":8040.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8040.782843750001,"end":8041.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8041.87971875,"end":8042.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8043.19596875,"end":8044.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8044.93409375,"end":8045.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8046.09846875,"end":8049.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8049.52409375,"end":8051.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8053.00034375,"end":8054.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8054.40096875,"end":8065.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8065.960343750001,"end":8067.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8067.76596875,"end":8069.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8069.858468750001,"end":8071.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8071.84971875,"end":8073.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8073.975968750001,"end":8075.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8077.41846875,"end":8078.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8079.20721875,"end":8086.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8086.42971875,"end":8096.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8096.419718750001,"end":8097.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8097.80346875,"end":8099.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8099.946593750001,"end":8101.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8102.03909375,"end":8104.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8104.2665937500005,"end":8105.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8107.675343750001,"end":8108.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8109.86909375,"end":8115.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8116.062218750001,"end":8116.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8117.057843750001,"end":8121.782843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8122.13721875,"end":8123.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8123.53784375,"end":8125.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8126.389718750001,"end":8128.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8128.9715937500005,"end":8131.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8132.194718750001,"end":8132.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8132.751593750001,"end":8135.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8138.235968750001,"end":8139.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8139.602843750001,"end":8141.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8141.72909375,"end":8143.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8143.349093750001,"end":8146.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8146.47096875,"end":8149.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8149.52534375,"end":8150.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8150.706593750001,"end":8153.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8153.8622187500005,"end":8154.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8155.718468750001,"end":8159.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8160.359093750001,"end":8163.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8164.61159375,"end":8165.235968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8165.77596875,"end":8168.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8168.77971875,"end":8169.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8170.55159375,"end":8171.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8171.614718750001,"end":8174.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8174.39909375,"end":8175.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8175.968468750001,"end":8180.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8180.87909375,"end":8185.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8185.6884687500005,"end":8186.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8187.139718750001,"end":8188.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8193.50159375,"end":8194.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8195.121593750002,"end":8196.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8196.285968750002,"end":8196.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8196.910343750002,"end":8201.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8201.652218750001,"end":8202.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8203.12034375,"end":8204.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8204.875343750002,"end":8206.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8206.832843750002,"end":8208.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8208.824093750001,"end":8210.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8210.84909375,"end":8213.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8214.055343750002,"end":8214.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8215.472843750002,"end":8218.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8218.86471875,"end":8219.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8220.484718750002,"end":8222.712218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8223.04971875,"end":8223.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8223.589718750001,"end":8225.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8225.597843750002,"end":8227.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8227.335968750001,"end":8228.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8229.884093749999,"end":8239.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8239.60409375,"end":8241.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8242.101593750001,"end":8245.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8246.97846875,"end":8247.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8250.488468750002,"end":8255.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8255.972843750002,"end":8257.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8257.660343750002,"end":8258.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8259.044093750003,"end":8261.946593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8262.368468749999,"end":8264.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8264.39346875,"end":8265.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8265.524093750002,"end":8267.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8267.481593750003,"end":8269.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8271.329093750002,"end":8272.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8275.497218750003,"end":8285.149718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8286.78659375,"end":8291.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8293.890968750002,"end":8311.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8312.622218750003,"end":8316.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8317.16159375,"end":8336.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8320.60409375,"end":8320.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8320.70534375,"end":8320.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8337.58034375,"end":8337.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8337.968468750001,"end":8343.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8346.11909375,"end":8352.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8352.61596875,"end":8359.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8360.20971875,"end":8363.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8363.06159375,"end":8369.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8375.27909375,"end":8375.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8377.000343750002,"end":8377.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8377.01721875,"end":8396.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8383.952843750001,"end":8384.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8397.149093750002,"end":8397.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8398.296593750001,"end":8399.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8399.37659375,"end":8399.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8399.410343750002,"end":8404.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8399.42721875,"end":8400.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8400.203468750002,"end":8400.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8404.38846875,"end":8414.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8414.749718750001,"end":8417.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8418.242843750002,"end":8429.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8429.785343750002,"end":8432.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8433.97034375,"end":8434.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8435.168468750002,"end":8451.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8451.28409375,"end":8452.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8452.90409375,"end":8454.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8455.047218750002,"end":8456.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8456.39721875,"end":8471.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8471.399093750002,"end":8492.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8490.231593750003,"end":8490.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8491.952843750001,"end":8504.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8492.492843750002,"end":8493.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8504.44034375,"end":8509.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8509.70534375,"end":8510.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8509.890968750002,"end":8519.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8519.05409375,"end":8521.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8522.19284375,"end":8531.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8532.65534375,"end":8536.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8536.620968750001,"end":8536.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8537.144093750001,"end":8546.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8544.46784375,"end":8552.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8547.657218750002,"end":8547.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8547.79221875,"end":8547.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8553.78284375,"end":8554.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8557.22534375,"end":8559.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8560.887218750002,"end":8563.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8563.50284375,"end":8564.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8564.734718750002,"end":8565.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8565.96659375,"end":8566.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8566.72596875,"end":8574.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8574.269093750001,"end":8575.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8574.437843750002,"end":8574.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8577.47534375,"end":8580.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8581.238468750002,"end":8582.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8585.254718750002,"end":8588.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8590.60409375,"end":8592.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8594.114093750002,"end":8601.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8602.011593750001,"end":8603.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8603.547218750002,"end":8607.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8622.278468750003,"end":8632.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8634.78284375,"end":8635.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8641.00971875,"end":8642.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8642.984093750001,"end":8644.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8645.633468750002,"end":8646.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8647.641593750002,"end":8648.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8648.62034375,"end":8653.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8651.759093750003,"end":8653.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8653.93596875,"end":8654.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8654.492843750002,"end":8654.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8654.594093750002,"end":8664.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8665.815968750001,"end":8666.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8666.28846875,"end":8666.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8666.980343750001,"end":8674.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8684.226593750001,"end":8692.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8692.394093750001,"end":8694.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8695.212218750003,"end":8706.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8706.602843750003,"end":8707.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8708.391593750002,"end":8710.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8711.327843750001,"end":8720.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8721.520343750002,"end":8722.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8724.372218750003,"end":8729.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8729.535968750002,"end":8739.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8744.774093750002,"end":8766.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8775.90846875,"end":8783.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8784.46409375,"end":8786.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8787.164093750001,"end":8788.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8787.83909375,"end":8826.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8826.33096875,"end":8827.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8827.05659375,"end":8869.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8832.06846875,"end":8832.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8869.649093750002,"end":8882.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8882.37284375,"end":8899.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8899.922843750002,"end":8927.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8928.509093750003,"end":8928.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8929.757843750001,"end":8930.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8930.871593750002,"end":8931.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8933.284718750001,"end":8935.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8936.102843750003,"end":8936.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8937.06471875,"end":8937.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8938.43159375,"end":8940.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8940.96284375,"end":8941.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8941.199093750001,"end":8941.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8942.464718750001,"end":8959.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8950.41284375,"end":8951.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8952.657218750002,"end":8956.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8957.73659375,"end":8958.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8959.94721875,"end":8960.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8960.04846875,"end":8960.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8960.622218750003,"end":8960.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8960.655968750001,"end":8960.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8960.74034375,"end":8960.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8961.449093750001,"end":8963.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8961.989093750002,"end":8962.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8962.02284375,"end":8962.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8962.05659375,"end":8962.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8962.140968750002,"end":8962.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8962.52909375,"end":8962.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8962.54596875,"end":8963.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8963.187218750001,"end":8965.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8963.237843750001,"end":8963.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8963.47409375,"end":8963.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8963.524718750003,"end":8964.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8965.414718750002,"end":8971.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8971.72596875,"end":8974.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8972.45159375,"end":8972.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8976.383468750002,"end":8977.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8977.09221875,"end":8977.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8977.480343750001,"end":8981.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8983.875968750002,"end":8983.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8983.977218750002,"end":8988.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8987.48721875,"end":8989.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8991.098468750002,"end":8992.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8992.785968750002,"end":8993.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9000.683468750001,"end":9004.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9004.29471875,"end":9004.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9004.31159375,"end":9004.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9004.328468750002,"end":9004.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9004.952843750001,"end":9004.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9004.969718750002,"end":9006.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9005.13846875,"end":9006.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9006.336593750002,"end":9006.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9006.35346875,"end":9006.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9006.589718750001,"end":9007.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9007.09596875,"end":9007.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9011.83784375,"end":9011.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9011.871593750002,"end":9012.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9013.440968750001,"end":9016.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9018.250343750002,"end":9023.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9024.375968750002,"end":9027.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9029.961593750002,"end":9034.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9035.09159375,"end":9036.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9038.93909375,"end":9041.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9042.28034375,"end":9042.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9046.38096875,"end":9049.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9050.44784375,"end":9058.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9059.374718750001,"end":9060.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9061.72034375,"end":9062.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9062.51346875,"end":9066.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9067.96409375,"end":9068.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9069.921593750001,"end":9071.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9072.419093750003,"end":9073.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9074.106593750003,"end":9076.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9076.97534375,"end":9078.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9078.88221875,"end":9080.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9083.92784375,"end":9086.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9086.391593750002,"end":9089.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9089.42909375,"end":9102.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9095.301593750002,"end":9095.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9102.794093750003,"end":9118.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9104.27909375,"end":9104.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9106.000343750002,"end":9106.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9111.83909375,"end":9112.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9119.43284375,"end":9125.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9126.469718750002,"end":9149.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9149.250968750002,"end":9152.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9152.929718750001,"end":9155.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9155.579093750002,"end":9158.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9158.565968750001,"end":9159.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9160.540343750003,"end":9161.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9162.86909375,"end":9163.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9164.016593750002,"end":9172.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9172.808468750001,"end":9174.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9174.917843750001,"end":9183.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9183.794093750003,"end":9184.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9185.009093750003,"end":9185.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9186.105968750002,"end":9196.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9196.433468750001,"end":9197.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9197.53034375,"end":9201.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9202.862843750001,"end":9205.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9205.90034375,"end":9208.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9208.195343750001,"end":9209.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9209.81534375,"end":9220.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9220.78409375,"end":9223.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9223.41659375,"end":9233.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9233.79471875,"end":9261.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9261.891593750002,"end":9262.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9262.43159375,"end":9263.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9263.511593750001,"end":9264.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9264.321593750003,"end":9264.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9265.33409375,"end":9265.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9266.262218750002,"end":9267.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9268.72596875,"end":9269.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9269.77221875,"end":9271.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9272.168468750002,"end":9276.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9277.973468750002,"end":9278.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9279.88034375,"end":9280.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9280.16721875,"end":9280.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9280.403468750003,"end":9281.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9281.280968750001,"end":9281.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9281.449718750002,"end":9281.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9281.500343750002,"end":9283.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9283.035968750002,"end":9295.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9295.742843750002,"end":9316.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9317.17409375,"end":9319.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9319.90784375,"end":9322.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9321.17346875,"end":9322.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9322.962218750003,"end":9323.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9323.02971875,"end":9338.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9323.24909375,"end":9323.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9338.352218750002,"end":9338.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9338.75721875,"end":9360.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9361.285343750002,"end":9363.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9363.917843750001,"end":9363.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9363.934718750003,"end":9364.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9363.968468750001,"end":9364.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9364.019093750001,"end":9375.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9376.270343750002,"end":9381.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9382.21034375,"end":9384.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9382.24409375,"end":9382.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9382.277843750002,"end":9388.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9388.555343750002,"end":9392.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9395.84534375,"end":9403.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9405.852218750002,"end":9408.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9408.40034375,"end":9413.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9413.597843750002,"end":9415.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9415.555343750002,"end":9416.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9419.183468750001,"end":9428.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9429.730343750001,"end":9433.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9434.52284375,"end":9435.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9435.14721875,"end":9435.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9447.145343750002,"end":9451.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9451.75221875,"end":9452.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9452.528468750003,"end":9459.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9459.81846875,"end":9460.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9461.489093750002,"end":9467.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9468.30659375,"end":9475.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9477.90846875,"end":9482.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9482.481593750003,"end":9487.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9488.067218750002,"end":9494.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9494.58096875,"end":9497.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9498.512843750003,"end":9508.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9509.59971875,"end":9522.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9509.633468750002,"end":9511.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9522.27284375,"end":9523.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9523.89284375,"end":9526.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9526.710968750001,"end":9528.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9530.44034375,"end":9535.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9536.76846875,"end":9553.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9553.54221875,"end":9558.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9559.262843750003,"end":9561.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9561.321593750003,"end":9561.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9561.50721875,"end":9561.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9561.524093750002,"end":9561.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9561.574718750002,"end":9561.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9561.70971875,"end":9561.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9561.777218750001,"end":9561.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9561.827843750001,"end":9564.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9565.38846875,"end":9573.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9578.26409375,"end":9582.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9584.05221875,"end":9595.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9596.10096875,"end":9606.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9606.68159375,"end":9609.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9609.68534375,"end":9611.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9611.980343750001,"end":9612.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9612.53721875,"end":9619.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9619.523468750001,"end":9621.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9620.063468750002,"end":9621.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9622.30784375,"end":9625.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9625.83471875,"end":9630.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9631.859093750001,"end":9633.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9634.086593750002,"end":9634.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9635.11596875,"end":9636.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9636.145343750002,"end":9652.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9655.83846875,"end":9656.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9657.94784375,"end":9658.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9658.909718750001,"end":9659.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9660.968468750001,"end":9662.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9664.64721875,"end":9666.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9666.419093750003,"end":9668.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9670.50284375,"end":9673.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9676.67909375,"end":9677.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9683.226593750001,"end":9686.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9688.52534375,"end":9696.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9699.848468750002,"end":9701.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9703.34159375,"end":9704.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9704.691593750002,"end":9707.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9708.37034375,"end":9724.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9728.97471875,"end":9729.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9730.628468750001,"end":9732.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9733.277843750002,"end":9738.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9735.37034375,"end":9745.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9738.610343750002,"end":9739.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9743.94284375,"end":9745.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9745.934093750002,"end":9747.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9747.030968750001,"end":9747.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9747.75659375,"end":9758.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9759.34971875,"end":9766.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9763.29846875,"end":9763.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9767.027843750002,"end":9768.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9768.968468750001,"end":9773.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9773.946593750003,"end":9777.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9777.22034375,"end":9778.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9778.92471875,"end":9781.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9782.67096875,"end":9784.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9784.628468750001,"end":9786.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9788.05409375,"end":9799.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9801.70596875,"end":9809.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9810.12659375,"end":9810.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9811.72971875,"end":9820.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9821.95596875,"end":9824.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9826.309718750003,"end":9842.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9847.133468750002,"end":9857.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9859.50284375,"end":9859.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9860.633468750002,"end":9861.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9862.50659375,"end":9876.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9879.58409375,"end":9898.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9898.83846875,"end":9899.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9902.770343750002,"end":9912.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9912.456593750001,"end":9921.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9922.058468750001,"end":9923.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9923.762843750003,"end":9924.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9927.711593750002,"end":9928.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9928.926593750002,"end":9930.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9931.710968750001,"end":9932.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9933.38159375,"end":9935.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9939.895343750002,"end":9941.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9941.937218750001,"end":9951.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9942.308468750001,"end":9942.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9952.028468750003,"end":9957.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9958.086593750002,"end":9969.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9970.06784375,"end":9970.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9971.50221875,"end":9983.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9985.879718750002,"end":9997.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9997.320968750002,"end":10007.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9997.35471875,"end":9998.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9998.097218750001,"end":9998.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10008.188468750002,"end":10011.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10012.84596875,"end":10019.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10016.06909375,"end":10016.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10016.085968750001,"end":10016.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10018.465343750002,"end":10018.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10018.48221875,"end":10019.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10019.039093750001,"end":10019.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10019.106593750003,"end":10019.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10019.17409375,"end":10019.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10019.22471875,"end":10019.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10019.24159375,"end":10019.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10019.680343750002,"end":10019.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10019.71409375,"end":10027.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10027.45971875,"end":10028.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10029.78846875,"end":10030.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10031.543468750002,"end":10038.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10032.82596875,"end":10039.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10041.28034375,"end":10041.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10041.972218750001,"end":10046.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10047.91221875,"end":10049.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10049.34659375,"end":10050.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10052.70471875,"end":10053.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10063.09971875,"end":10063.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10064.41596875,"end":10066.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10067.01471875,"end":10067.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10067.09909375,"end":10069.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10071.098468750002,"end":10071.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10071.13221875,"end":10071.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10071.469718750002,"end":10071.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10071.48659375,"end":10071.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10076.59971875,"end":10078.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10456.641593750002,"end":10457.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10574.95221875,"end":10576.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10578.52971875,"end":10579.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10588.367843750002,"end":10593.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10590.747218750003,"end":10592.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10596.61971875,"end":10597.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10599.657218750002,"end":10600.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10675.40909375,"end":10676.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10679.847218750001,"end":10683.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10708.129718750002,"end":10709.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10712.500343750002,"end":10714.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10714.96409375,"end":10716.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10717.461593750002,"end":10718.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10719.11534375,"end":10725.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10725.51096875,"end":10727.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10727.755343750003,"end":10729.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10732.51409375,"end":10733.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10736.90159375,"end":10743.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10744.461593750002,"end":10748.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10748.899718750003,"end":10750.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10751.76846875,"end":10753.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10759.66596875,"end":10769.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10770.195968750002,"end":10770.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10770.70221875,"end":10770.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10771.86659375,"end":10773.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10774.12784375,"end":10789.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10797.75284375,"end":10813.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10818.00284375,"end":10819.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10820.48346875,"end":10841.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10842.82596875,"end":10848.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10849.356593750003,"end":10857.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10857.878468750001,"end":10859.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10860.831593750001,"end":10871.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10872.67784375,"end":10880.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10880.254718750002,"end":10880.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10880.86221875,"end":10901.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10902.023468750001,"end":10913.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10914.224093750003,"end":10956.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10957.019093750001,"end":10970.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10970.65409375,"end":10988.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10988.44034375,"end":10990.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10991.005343750003,"end":10998.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10998.734093750001,"end":11004.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11005.180343750002,"end":11010.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11013.26346875,"end":11014.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11014.64721875,"end":11016.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11016.300968750002,"end":11016.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11017.00971875,"end":11018.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11019.59159375,"end":11034.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11038.10346875,"end":11039.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11041.47846875,"end":11043.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11043.95909375,"end":11043.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11044.245968750001,"end":11045.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11045.66346875,"end":11047.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11047.722218750001,"end":11048.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11053.24034375,"end":11053.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11056.31159375,"end":11057.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11056.46346875,"end":11061.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11062.11659375,"end":11066.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11067.48284375,"end":11074.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11076.02159375,"end":11079.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11076.51096875,"end":11079.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11079.88596875,"end":11082.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11083.31159375,"end":11086.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11086.88909375,"end":11094.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11095.05659375,"end":11099.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11098.684718750003,"end":11098.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11098.70159375,"end":11103.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11106.649718750003,"end":11108.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11109.315968750001,"end":11110.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11110.868468750003,"end":11111.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11112.167843750001,"end":11112.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11113.61909375,"end":11117.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11117.922218750002,"end":11127.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11127.355343750001,"end":11130.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11130.54471875,"end":11131.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11132.097218750001,"end":11132.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11133.34596875,"end":11134.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11134.29096875,"end":11136.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11136.56909375,"end":11137.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11137.328468750002,"end":11139.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11139.285968750002,"end":11140.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11140.66971875,"end":11144.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11145.344093750002,"end":11147.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11145.867218750001,"end":11147.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11148.26346875,"end":11158.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11159.08034375,"end":11171.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11172.445343750001,"end":11177.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11181.996593750002,"end":11183.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11184.13971875,"end":11190.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11187.683468750001,"end":11188.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11188.544093750003,"end":11188.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11190.56909375,"end":11191.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11191.007843750001,"end":11202.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11191.04159375,"end":11191.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11192.18909375,"end":11193.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11193.117218750001,"end":11193.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11202.499718750001,"end":11202.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11202.617843750002,"end":11202.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11202.719093750002,"end":11204.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11204.828468750002,"end":11209.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11209.60409375,"end":11210.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11210.464718750001,"end":11213.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11212.30409375,"end":11218.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11215.274093750002,"end":11215.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11219.15534375,"end":11222.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11223.222218750001,"end":11225.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11225.129093750002,"end":11226.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11226.36096875,"end":11226.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11227.54221875,"end":11249.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11227.930343750002,"end":11229.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11229.01034375,"end":11229.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11238.527843750002,"end":11240.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11240.14784375,"end":11240.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11249.800343750001,"end":11250.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11250.036593750003,"end":11250.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11250.05346875,"end":11250.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11250.070343750001,"end":11251.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11250.137843750003,"end":11250.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11252.753468750001,"end":11253.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11253.462218750003,"end":11256.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11257.79909375,"end":11259.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11260.262843750003,"end":11264.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11265.578468750002,"end":11303.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11304.00284375,"end":11307.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11304.120968750001,"end":11305.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11307.394718750002,"end":11310.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11307.715343750002,"end":11308.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11309.554718750001,"end":11325.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11315.410343750002,"end":11316.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11317.570343750001,"end":11317.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11318.262218750002,"end":11318.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11327.391593750002,"end":11332.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11332.84221875,"end":11337.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11337.465968750003,"end":11349.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11342.59596875,"end":11343.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11347.70909375,"end":11359.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11358.610343750002,"end":11366.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11361.25971875,"end":11361.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11361.512843750003,"end":11361.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11365.44471875,"end":11366.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11366.355968750002,"end":11370.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11371.165343750003,"end":11377.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11375.50221875,"end":11375.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11375.56971875,"end":11375.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11378.067218750002,"end":11383.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11384.09159375,"end":11406.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11406.46784375,"end":11407.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11407.902218750001,"end":11415.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11408.239718750003,"end":11411.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11411.243468750003,"end":11411.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11412.137843750003,"end":11412.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11412.222218750001,"end":11412.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11415.546593750001,"end":11422.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11422.92096875,"end":11426.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11426.954093750002,"end":11449.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11450.106593750003,"end":11480.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11480.65034375,"end":11481.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11481.831593750001,"end":11482.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11483.738468750002,"end":11485.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11485.965968750003,"end":11492.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11492.09159375,"end":11494.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11497.15409375,"end":11515.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11516.020343750002,"end":11523.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11525.43659375,"end":11543.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11543.13846875,"end":11544.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11544.015968750002,"end":11555.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11555.76096875,"end":11558.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11558.849093750003,"end":11571.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11571.35346875,"end":11571.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11572.011593750001,"end":11578.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11578.91346875,"end":11583.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11580.027218750001,"end":11581.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11584.364093750002,"end":11585.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11585.29221875,"end":11585.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11586.743468750003,"end":11587.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11588.009093750003,"end":11593.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11593.746593750002,"end":11596.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11596.68284375,"end":11596.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11597.20596875,"end":11600.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11600.88471875,"end":11602.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11601.087218750003,"end":11601.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11602.977218750002,"end":11605.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11605.660343750002,"end":11606.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11607.06096875,"end":11610.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11610.80721875,"end":11612.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11614.13159375,"end":11617.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11617.793468750002,"end":11625.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11627.800343750001,"end":11635.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11636.84534375,"end":11651.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11652.640343750001,"end":11653.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11653.46721875,"end":11655.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11656.67346875,"end":11660.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11660.453468750002,"end":11660.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11660.976593750001,"end":11675.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11675.539718750002,"end":11705.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11706.269093750001,"end":11728.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11728.24034375,"end":11750.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11751.51096875,"end":11765.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11772.402218750001,"end":11773.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11774.899718750003,"end":11776.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11776.45221875,"end":11777.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11777.92034375,"end":11783.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11783.438468750002,"end":11786.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11786.712218750003,"end":11789.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11789.68221875,"end":11793.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11793.833468750003,"end":11798.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11798.625968750002,"end":11802.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11802.692843750003,"end":11810.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11811.113468750002,"end":11818.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11814.67409375,"end":11814.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11818.926593750002,"end":11825.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11825.474093750003,"end":11856.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11857.08096875,"end":11879.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11879.76096875,"end":11887.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11888.19846875,"end":11907.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11908.094093750002,"end":11918.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11919.40034375,"end":11923.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11923.72034375,"end":11925.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11927.871593750002,"end":11930.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11930.976593750001,"end":11931.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11932.410968750002,"end":11934.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11934.672218750002,"end":11938.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11941.169093750003,"end":11950.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11950.93971875,"end":11955.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11955.64784375,"end":11960.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11960.575343750003,"end":11966.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11967.156593750002,"end":11969.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11969.92409375,"end":11975.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11975.57721875,"end":11984.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11984.571593750003,"end":12000.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12001.446593750003,"end":12011.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12011.80784375,"end":12027.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12028.36221875,"end":12045.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12045.33846875,"end":12053.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12053.67471875,"end":12058.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12058.551593750002,"end":12061.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12062.80409375,"end":12065.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12065.824718750002,"end":12066.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12066.820343750001,"end":12076.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12076.75971875,"end":12081.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12081.77159375,"end":12082.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12083.239718750003,"end":12083.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12084.40409375,"end":12085.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12086.125343750002,"end":12090.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12090.27659375,"end":12090.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12091.84596875,"end":12092.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12092.53784375,"end":12096.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12094.00596875,"end":12094.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12094.02284375,"end":12094.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12095.676593750002,"end":12099.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12097.07721875,"end":12097.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12099.54096875,"end":12100.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12100.35096875,"end":12101.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12101.81909375,"end":12104.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12102.308468750001,"end":12102.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12104.08034375,"end":12108.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12108.56909375,"end":12118.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12118.84596875,"end":12120.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12120.347843750002,"end":12142.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12125.089718750001,"end":12125.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12139.922843750002,"end":12140.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12142.20096875,"end":12148.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12148.64721875,"end":12148.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12148.984718750002,"end":12149.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12149.54159375,"end":12150.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12150.97596875,"end":12180.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12180.28784375,"end":12186.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12186.39659375,"end":12199.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12199.57596875,"end":12209.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12209.363468750002,"end":12217.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12216.130343750003,"end":12216.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12218.644718750002,"end":12218.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12218.661593750003,"end":12218.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12219.505343750003,"end":12223.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12224.129093750002,"end":12226.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12225.765968750002,"end":12226.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12226.37346875,"end":12226.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12226.59284375,"end":12232.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12227.082218750002,"end":12227.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12229.69784375,"end":12229.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12231.520343750002,"end":12253.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12249.441593750002,"end":12249.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12249.644093750001,"end":12249.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12249.74534375,"end":12249.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12255.246593750002,"end":12273.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12278.247218750003,"end":12281.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12281.723468750002,"end":12290.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12290.464718750001,"end":12296.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12297.484718750002,"end":12303.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12304.437218750001,"end":12305.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12305.90534375,"end":12316.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12318.46034375,"end":12318.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12319.81034375,"end":12320.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12320.67096875,"end":12322.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12320.82284375,"end":12321.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12321.76784375,"end":12323.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12322.03784375,"end":12322.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12322.39221875,"end":12322.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12322.45971875,"end":12322.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12322.527218750001,"end":12322.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12323.809718750003,"end":12324.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12330.05346875,"end":12331.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12331.84221875,"end":12333.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12334.12034375,"end":12350.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12334.440968750001,"end":12335.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12351.214718750001,"end":12353.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12354.015968750002,"end":12354.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12354.927218750003,"end":12358.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12356.98596875,"end":12363.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12358.774718750003,"end":12359.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12360.715343750002,"end":12362.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12363.044093750003,"end":12370.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12368.86596875,"end":12369.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12369.23721875,"end":12369.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12370.722218750001,"end":12379.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12379.51409375,"end":12380.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12380.67846875,"end":12382.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12382.73721875,"end":12386.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12386.753468750001,"end":12388.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12388.62659375,"end":12392.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12393.368468750003,"end":12400.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12401.468468750001,"end":12402.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12403.45971875,"end":12410.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12411.25596875,"end":12451.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12452.76846875,"end":12469.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12472.79909375,"end":12485.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12487.969718750002,"end":12491.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12492.441593750002,"end":12495.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12495.78284375,"end":12500.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12501.452843750001,"end":12510.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12510.599093750003,"end":12516.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12517.180343750002,"end":12518.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12519.289718750002,"end":12523.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12524.622218750003,"end":12524.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12525.43221875,"end":12526.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12527.153468750003,"end":12528.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12529.296593750001,"end":12530.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12530.96721875,"end":12532.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12533.32971875,"end":12541.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12541.66596875,"end":12543.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12545.294093750003,"end":12546.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12546.762218750002,"end":12551.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12551.06534375,"end":12551.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12553.765343750001,"end":12554.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12554.64284375,"end":12572.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12555.250343750002,"end":12556.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12556.094093750002,"end":12556.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12572.83409375,"end":12573.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12575.618468750003,"end":12579.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12584.96721875,"end":12585.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12585.96284375,"end":12585.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12587.97096875,"end":12588.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12588.98346875,"end":12589.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12589.911593750003,"end":12594.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12594.51846875,"end":12596.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12599.20971875,"end":12599.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12601.352843750003,"end":12606.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12606.90471875,"end":12613.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12613.43534375,"end":12617.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12613.722218750001,"end":12637.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12634.52909375,"end":12638.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12637.49909375,"end":12662.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12662.676593750002,"end":12674.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12674.55659375,"end":12678.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12678.25221875,"end":12691.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12690.33471875,"end":12697.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12697.995968750001,"end":12698.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12699.14346875,"end":12702.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12700.628468750001,"end":12702.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12702.41721875,"end":12702.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12702.56909375,"end":12702.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12703.176593750002,"end":12717.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12717.58784375,"end":12728.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12728.82659375,"end":12748.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12748.77284375,"end":12792.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12792.58034375,"end":12799.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12800.359718750002,"end":12800.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12800.96721875,"end":12801.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12803.07659375,"end":12810.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12811.159718750001,"end":12833.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12834.44721875,"end":12836.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12836.82659375,"end":12856.907843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12844.53846875,"end":12844.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12846.968468750001,"end":12847.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12857.886593750001,"end":12860.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12859.371593750002,"end":12859.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12859.38846875,"end":12859.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12859.641593750002,"end":12859.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12859.72596875,"end":12860.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12860.35034375,"end":12860.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12860.56971875,"end":12864.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12860.67096875,"end":12860.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12864.012218750002,"end":12906.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12906.402218750001,"end":12909.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12909.70971875,"end":12911.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12911.34659375,"end":12916.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12917.168468750002,"end":12918.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12918.51846875,"end":12919.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12921.35346875,"end":12932.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12932.91284375,"end":12939.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12939.98346875,"end":12948.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12949.079093750002,"end":12963.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12964.75596875,"end":12967.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12967.82721875,"end":12970.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12970.898468750001,"end":12988.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12988.70159375,"end":12996.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12997.18971875,"end":12997.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12997.898468750001,"end":12998.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12999.062843750002,"end":13001.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13000.379093750002,"end":13001.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13001.15534375,"end":13042.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13045.35096875,"end":13045.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13045.97534375,"end":13077.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13077.784718750001,"end":13098.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13096.988468750002,"end":13100.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13100.430968750003,"end":13104.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13103.890343750001,"end":13107.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13104.126593750003,"end":13104.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13106.15159375,"end":13106.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13106.370968750001,"end":13106.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13106.40471875,"end":13106.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13106.421593750001,"end":13106.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13107.602843750003,"end":13113.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13114.21784375,"end":13116.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13117.305968750003,"end":13122.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13123.00971875,"end":13127.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13127.262218750002,"end":13131.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13132.172843750002,"end":13145.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13146.70221875,"end":13148.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13148.929718750001,"end":13164.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13164.79221875,"end":13165.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13166.10846875,"end":13172.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13173.16221875,"end":13181.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13182.375968750002,"end":13183.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13183.489718750003,"end":13183.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13184.72159375,"end":13189.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13190.57721875,"end":13199.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13200.044093750003,"end":13208.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13208.852843750003,"end":13213.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13213.29096875,"end":13215.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13216.51409375,"end":13220.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13221.32346875,"end":13227.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13228.714718750001,"end":13232.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13233.726593750001,"end":13239.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13240.054718750001,"end":13269.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13269.383468750002,"end":13270.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13273.19721875,"end":13275.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13277.145968750003,"end":13287.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13288.148468750001,"end":13290.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13300.83846875,"end":13306.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13306.22159375,"end":13310.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13310.997218750003,"end":13362.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13362.465968750003,"end":13363.579718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13364.71034375,"end":13366.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13366.144718750002,"end":13371.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13370.92034375,"end":13371.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13371.07221875,"end":13371.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13371.426593750002,"end":13371.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13371.51096875,"end":13390.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13391.54159375,"end":13421.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13421.460968750001,"end":13425.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13426.82721875,"end":13433.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13434.454718750003,"end":13446.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13446.267218750003,"end":13456.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13457.168468750002,"end":13469.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13469.43659375,"end":13494.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13494.42846875,"end":13499.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13500.452843750001,"end":13507.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13507.40534375,"end":13514.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13514.47596875,"end":13519.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13520.26409375,"end":13521.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13521.968468750001,"end":13524.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13524.85409375,"end":13527.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13527.722843750002,"end":13531.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13531.941593750002,"end":13534.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13541.15534375,"end":13553.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13555.043468750002,"end":13557.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13558.82346875,"end":13561.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13561.472843750002,"end":13565.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13565.843468750001,"end":13567.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13568.273468750001,"end":13568.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13568.813468750002,"end":13569.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13570.399718750003,"end":13572.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13578.567218750002,"end":13589.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13595.05409375,"end":13595.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13596.387218750002,"end":13597.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13597.602218750002,"end":13598.564093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13602.22596875,"end":13605.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13606.562843750002,"end":13607.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13611.38909375,"end":13636.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13637.32596875,"end":13637.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13638.321593750003,"end":13653.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13653.981593750003,"end":13656.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13657.019093750001,"end":13665.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13665.996593750002,"end":13670.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13670.02971875,"end":13671.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13670.704718750003,"end":13671.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13672.274093750002,"end":13752.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13751.063468750002,"end":13753.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13753.25721875,"end":13754.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13754.57346875,"end":13758.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13759.73721875,"end":13762.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13761.27284375,"end":13778.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13769.946593750003,"end":13770.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13770.030968750001,"end":13771.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13773.43971875,"end":13773.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13773.456593750001,"end":13774.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13774.80659375,"end":13775.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13778.940968750001,"end":13779.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13779.29534375,"end":13782.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13782.704093750002,"end":13785.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13783.007843750001,"end":13788.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13788.74534375,"end":13792.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13789.707218750002,"end":13790.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13794.719093750002,"end":13801.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13802.515343750001,"end":13808.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13809.079718750003,"end":13816.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13818.074093750001,"end":13820.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13820.43659375,"end":13825.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13820.622218750003,"end":13820.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13820.85846875,"end":13820.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13820.95971875,"end":13821.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13825.85346875,"end":13826.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13826.29221875,"end":13878.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13835.40471875,"end":13836.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13848.820343750001,"end":13848.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13848.837218750003,"end":13850.001593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13850.001593750003,"end":13850.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13878.33471875,"end":13912.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13913.434718750003,"end":13916.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13913.637218750002,"end":13913.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13913.97471875,"end":13914.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13916.13471875,"end":13919.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13918.125968750002,"end":13918.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13918.446593750003,"end":13919.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13921.14659375,"end":13921.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13922.547218750002,"end":13923.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13924.825343750003,"end":13931.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13932.13221875,"end":13932.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13932.97596875,"end":13933.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13934.190968750001,"end":13935.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13936.097843750002,"end":13936.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13937.24534375,"end":13940.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13940.97471875,"end":13942.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13943.25284375,"end":13950.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13951.42034375,"end":13958.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13959.250343750002,"end":13964.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13964.86971875,"end":13966.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13967.14784375,"end":13968.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13968.632843750001,"end":13989.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13990.418468750002,"end":13991.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13992.747218750003,"end":13993.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13993.87784375,"end":14025.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14027.172218750002,"end":14028.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14030.51346875,"end":14033.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14034.614093750002,"end":14035.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14036.605343750001,"end":14037.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14038.05659375,"end":14041.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14041.684718750003,"end":14051.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14053.41284375,"end":14055.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14055.35346875,"end":14057.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14057.15909375,"end":14057.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14058.10409375,"end":14060.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14059.251593750003,"end":14067.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14067.75659375,"end":14075.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14076.970343750003,"end":14086.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14086.825343750003,"end":14091.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14092.27596875,"end":14103.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14103.71721875,"end":14110.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14111.78346875,"end":14134.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14135.30721875,"end":14141.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14141.972843750002,"end":14156.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14157.51471875,"end":14158.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14159.25284375,"end":14163.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14165.327843750001,"end":14169.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14170.32284375,"end":14201.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14195.989718750003,"end":14196.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14196.360968750003,"end":14196.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14201.237843750001,"end":14205.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14203.92096875,"end":14208.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14209.65846875,"end":14212.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14211.599093750003,"end":14212.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14212.847843750002,"end":14215.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14213.45534375,"end":14213.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14214.501593750003,"end":14215.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14215.29471875,"end":14215.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14215.31159375,"end":14215.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14215.868468750003,"end":14272.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14216.020343750002,"end":14216.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14274.27284375,"end":14274.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14276.01096875,"end":14276.939093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14277.69846875,"end":14284.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14286.220343750003,"end":14292.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14292.953468750002,"end":14302.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14303.145968750003,"end":14308.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14308.934093750002,"end":14323.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14324.08784375,"end":14328.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14328.390968750002,"end":14329.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14330.46659375,"end":14333.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14334.465968750003,"end":14336.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14336.81159375,"end":14337.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14338.75221875,"end":14347.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14347.93221875,"end":14353.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14354.41221875,"end":14358.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14359.57596875,"end":14361.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14359.727843750003,"end":14359.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14361.820343750001,"end":14367.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14367.59159375,"end":14369.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14370.274718750003,"end":14371.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14373.177218750003,"end":14375.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14375.97846875,"end":14376.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14376.77159375,"end":14381.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14380.922843750002,"end":14382.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14382.05346875,"end":14384.517218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14383.53846875,"end":14388.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14386.79534375,"end":14386.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14389.410968750002,"end":14395.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14393.34284375,"end":14396.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14395.739093750002,"end":14395.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14396.76846875,"end":14396.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14396.97096875,"end":14397.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14397.308468750001,"end":14399.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14397.44346875,"end":14397.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14397.46034375,"end":14397.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14397.696593750003,"end":14398.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14398.742843750002,"end":14398.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14399.29971875,"end":14401.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14401.88159375,"end":14404.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14403.180968750003,"end":14403.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14404.598468750002,"end":14408.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14408.445968750002,"end":14410.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14408.867843750002,"end":14409.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14411.179718750001,"end":14412.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14411.922218750002,"end":14413.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14413.137218750002,"end":14423.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14424.07221875,"end":14431.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14431.68284375,"end":14439.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14432.273468750001,"end":14432.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14436.458468750003,"end":14437.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14437.21784375,"end":14437.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14437.454093750002,"end":14437.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14437.977218750002,"end":14438.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14438.331593750001,"end":14438.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14441.31846875,"end":14442.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14443.664093750001,"end":14445.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14445.773468750001,"end":14445.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14447.460968750001,"end":14452.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14453.23221875,"end":14453.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14453.940968750001,"end":14456.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14454.059093750002,"end":14454.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14455.51034375,"end":14456.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14456.337218750003,"end":14456.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14457.501593750003,"end":14459.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14459.273468750001,"end":14460.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14461.332218750002,"end":14461.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14462.93534375,"end":14465.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14464.032218750002,"end":14466.782843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14466.495968750001,"end":14467.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14467.32284375,"end":14467.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14467.52534375,"end":14470.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14470.512218750002,"end":14471.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14471.035343750002,"end":14471.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14471.76096875,"end":14478.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14478.797843750002,"end":14482.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14483.539718750002,"end":14483.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14485.598468750002,"end":14486.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14487.083468750003,"end":14488.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14487.876593750003,"end":14488.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14488.349093750003,"end":14488.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14488.821593750003,"end":14492.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14492.01096875,"end":14496.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14497.74846875,"end":14498.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14499.570968750002,"end":14500.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14500.313468750002,"end":14505.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14505.91596875,"end":14509.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14520.934718750003,"end":14522.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14522.504093750002,"end":14529.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14529.49034375,"end":14531.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14531.97096875,"end":14532.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14532.96659375,"end":14535.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14537.168468750002,"end":14538.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14538.67034375,"end":14539.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14540.20596875,"end":14544.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14545.20096875,"end":14547.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14547.85034375,"end":14551.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14553.13221875,"end":14556.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14556.743468750003,"end":14561.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14562.19409375,"end":14567.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14567.50971875,"end":14568.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14569.129718750002,"end":14574.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14582.730968750002,"end":14584.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14584.469093750002,"end":14585.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14586.797843750002,"end":14587.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14589.227843750003,"end":14589.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14589.970343750003,"end":14590.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14590.071593750003,"end":14591.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14595.82596875,"end":14598.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14598.32346875,"end":14598.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14599.757843750001,"end":14600.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14600.53409375,"end":14603.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14603.048468750003,"end":14603.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14604.820343750001,"end":14604.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14606.575343750003,"end":14607.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14607.790343750003,"end":14609.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14611.840343750002,"end":14620.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14621.374718750001,"end":14623.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14625.25596875,"end":14630.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14630.48721875,"end":14631.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14632.32659375,"end":14638.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14639.22846875,"end":14639.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14641.641593750002,"end":14643.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14650.04534375,"end":14651.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14651.614718750003,"end":14652.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14660.001593750003,"end":14660.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14663.460968750001,"end":14666.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14669.45159375,"end":14670.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14670.750968750002,"end":14671.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14671.88159375,"end":14677.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14678.53034375,"end":14680.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14686.52909375,"end":14686.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14686.54596875,"end":14686.579718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14686.579718750003,"end":14687.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14693.71784375,"end":14700.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14707.57221875,"end":14718.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14723.19846875,"end":14723.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14724.362843750001,"end":14724.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14724.970343750003,"end":14725.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14725.66221875,"end":14726.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14729.77971875,"end":14736.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14737.54221875,"end":14740.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14738.95971875,"end":14738.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14738.976593750001,"end":14739.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14739.972218750001,"end":14740.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14740.74846875,"end":14757.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14759.47971875,"end":14779.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14783.15534375,"end":14786.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14788.386593750001,"end":14790.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14791.019093750001,"end":14791.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14792.453468750002,"end":14794.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14794.934093750002,"end":14799.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14799.675968750002,"end":14801.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14801.71784375,"end":14803.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14803.38846875,"end":14806.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14806.45971875,"end":14808.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14808.77159375,"end":14809.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14819.06534375,"end":14826.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14826.895343750002,"end":14829.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14830.38846875,"end":14834.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14834.50596875,"end":14840.564093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14841.407843750003,"end":14842.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14844.040343750003,"end":14845.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14845.879718750002,"end":14849.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14849.86221875,"end":14853.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14854.77284375,"end":14857.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14858.23221875,"end":14860.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14861.219093750002,"end":14862.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14862.974093750003,"end":14863.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14863.969718750002,"end":14864.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14864.965343750002,"end":14865.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14865.977843750003,"end":14866.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14867.58096875,"end":14874.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14876.06909375,"end":14880.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14881.620968750001,"end":14894.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14894.47971875,"end":14894.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14896.724093750003,"end":14897.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14897.753468750001,"end":14906.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14906.96721875,"end":14909.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14910.173468750003,"end":14915.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14916.164093750001,"end":14918.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14918.15534375,"end":14922.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14923.352843750003,"end":14927.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14927.284718750001,"end":14927.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14927.36909375,"end":14928.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14928.85409375,"end":14932.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14928.938468750002,"end":14929.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14930.38971875,"end":14930.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14930.406593750002,"end":14932.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14932.70159375,"end":14934.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14934.76034375,"end":14935.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14935.23284375,"end":14940.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14942.961593750002,"end":14946.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14948.142218750003,"end":14948.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14950.707218750002,"end":14955.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14955.887843750003,"end":14957.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14957.76096875,"end":14959.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14968.71284375,"end":14971.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14983.02284375,"end":14986.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14990.565968750001,"end":14991.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14998.649093750002,"end":14999.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14998.969718750002,"end":14999.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14999.189093750003,"end":14999.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15000.167843750001,"end":15001.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15001.821593750003,"end":15006.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15006.141593750002,"end":15006.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15006.175343750001,"end":15011.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15006.242843750002,"end":15006.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15006.310343750003,"end":15006.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15006.462218750003,"end":15006.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15006.968468750001,"end":15007.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15010.07346875,"end":15011.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15011.102843750003,"end":15011.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15012.824093750001,"end":15014.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15015.169718750003,"end":15015.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15016.215968750003,"end":15021.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15023.742218750001,"end":15031.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15035.06534375,"end":15035.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15037.984718750002,"end":15039.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15039.53721875,"end":15040.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15040.02659375,"end":15040.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15040.97159375,"end":15041.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15041.140343750001,"end":15041.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15041.96721875,"end":15042.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15042.81096875,"end":15042.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15044.22846875,"end":15044.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15044.582843750002,"end":15049.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15044.61659375,"end":15044.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15049.965968750003,"end":15051.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15054.505343750003,"end":15057.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15055.855343750001,"end":15055.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15057.964718750001,"end":15061.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15061.559093750002,"end":15061.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15062.38596875,"end":15065.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15065.96346875,"end":15071.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15068.207843750002,"end":15068.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15072.679718750001,"end":15077.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15080.83034375,"end":15080.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15080.847218750001,"end":15087.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15081.083468750003,"end":15081.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15087.74909375,"end":15092.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15092.777843750002,"end":15131.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15137.63159375,"end":15140.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15143.149718750003,"end":15147.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15149.410343750002,"end":15157.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15157.814093750003,"end":15160.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15161.965343750002,"end":15168.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15172.27596875,"end":15172.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15172.292843750001,"end":15172.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15172.410968750002,"end":15172.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15175.54971875,"end":15176.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15176.781593750002,"end":15177.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15178.13159375,"end":15191.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15228.672218750002,"end":15231.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15232.317218750002,"end":15237.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15237.531593750002,"end":15238.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15239.30346875,"end":15240.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15239.50596875,"end":15240.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15240.83909375,"end":15240.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15240.872843750003,"end":15245.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15241.78409375,"end":15242.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15245.496593750002,"end":15245.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15247.065968750001,"end":15265.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15253.765343750001,"end":15254.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15254.22096875,"end":15254.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15259.33409375,"end":15259.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15266.050343750001,"end":15267.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15276.05721875,"end":15277.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15277.407218750002,"end":15277.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15277.761593750001,"end":15279.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15281.32221875,"end":15281.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15282.368468750003,"end":15282.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15282.992843750002,"end":15283.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15297.505343750003,"end":15300.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15301.133468750002,"end":15302.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15303.293468750002,"end":15324.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15327.171593750001,"end":15329.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15334.832843750002,"end":15343.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15344.40096875,"end":15347.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15347.97846875,"end":15363.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15366.422843750002,"end":15374.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15374.640968750002,"end":15383.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15384.27659375,"end":15408.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15409.909718750001,"end":15419.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15419.96721875,"end":15422.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15423.527843750002,"end":15429.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15430.058468750001,"end":15440.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15440.183468750001,"end":15447.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15452.586593750002,"end":15453.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15453.109718750002,"end":15453.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15454.797218750002,"end":15455.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15455.843468750001,"end":15456.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15456.72096875,"end":15459.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15459.539093750001,"end":15460.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15461.395343750002,"end":15465.782843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15465.968468750001,"end":15469.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15469.664093750001,"end":15486.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15487.19721875,"end":15489.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15492.192218750002,"end":15492.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15493.32284375,"end":15540.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15542.513468750003,"end":15542.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15542.665343750003,"end":15542.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15542.78346875,"end":15543.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15544.26846875,"end":15566.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15566.374718750001,"end":15570.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15570.914093750001,"end":15571.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15571.11659375,"end":15571.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15571.234718750002,"end":15572.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15574.019093750001,"end":15577.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15579.030968750001,"end":15581.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15715.836593750002,"end":15717.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15718.637843750003,"end":15722.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15722.55284375,"end":15722.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15724.122218750003,"end":15727.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15728.05409375,"end":15729.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15730.382843750001,"end":15731.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15732.222218750001,"end":15749.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16442.20409375,"end":16443.554093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16443.80721875,"end":16447.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16448.24534375,"end":16448.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16453.91534375,"end":16457.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16474.435343750003,"end":16476.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16478.09721875,"end":16479.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16480.999718749998,"end":16484.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16484.39159375,"end":16490.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16490.601593749998,"end":16494.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16495.309718750003,"end":16498.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16498.41471875,"end":16501.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16501.739093750002,"end":16503.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16505.232218750003,"end":16506.514718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16508.33721875,"end":16509.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16511.81346875,"end":16512.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16513.33221875,"end":16515.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16515.357218750003,"end":16516.538468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16516.87596875,"end":16519.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16520.335343749997,"end":16522.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16522.967843749997,"end":16523.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16523.592218750004,"end":16524.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16524.30096875,"end":16525.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16525.44846875,"end":16527.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16527.996593750002,"end":16531.624718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16531.793468750002,"end":16533.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16537.277843750002,"end":16538.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16540.163468749997,"end":16544.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16545.090968750003,"end":16547.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16548.077843749998,"end":16551.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16551.68909375,"end":16554.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16554.22034375,"end":16555.334093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16555.755968750003,"end":16559.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16559.451593750004,"end":16561.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16562.286593750003,"end":16563.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16564.514093750004,"end":16565.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16565.796593749998,"end":16566.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16566.67409375,"end":16567.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16568.34471875,"end":16572.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16572.90096875,"end":16574.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16577.54159375,"end":16578.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16579.600343750004,"end":16581.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16582.09784375,"end":16585.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16586.249093749997,"end":16595.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16596.00284375,"end":16596.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16596.779093750003,"end":16601.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16602.01034375,"end":16602.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16602.820343749998,"end":16604.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16604.997218750003,"end":16605.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16606.12784375,"end":16607.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16608.051593750002,"end":16609.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16610.414093749998,"end":16613.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16613.83971875,"end":16615.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16615.257218749997,"end":16616.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16616.86034375,"end":16617.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16617.754718750002,"end":16620.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16621.31534375,"end":16625.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16625.500343749998,"end":16626.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16626.56346875,"end":16628.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16629.33096875,"end":16637.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16638.325343750003,"end":16645.210343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16645.919093750003,"end":16648.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16648.281593749998,"end":16657.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16658.052218750003,"end":16660.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16661.730968750002,"end":16662.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16662.794093750003,"end":16664.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16666.75971875,"end":16667.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16670.57346875,"end":16671.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16672.34534375,"end":16674.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16674.927218750003,"end":16675.990343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16677.374093749997,"end":16680.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16681.272218750004,"end":16683.179093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16683.97221875,"end":16684.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16695.88596875,"end":16695.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16703.66534375,"end":16706.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16707.867218749998,"end":16709.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16710.482843750004,"end":16711.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16712.13659375,"end":16713.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16713.92534375,"end":16715.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16714.98846875,"end":16716.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16715.61284375,"end":16715.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16716.86159375,"end":16719.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16720.25346875,"end":16722.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16723.00409375,"end":16723.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16724.219093749998,"end":16724.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16725.164093749998,"end":16726.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16727.172218749998,"end":16729.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16729.973468750002,"end":16734.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16734.58034375,"end":16735.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16735.64346875,"end":16736.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16736.976593749998,"end":16736.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16737.19596875,"end":16747.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16755.67409375,"end":16757.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16755.859718749998,"end":16755.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16766.153468750003,"end":16770.625343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16770.996593750002,"end":16771.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16771.840343750002,"end":16772.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16773.39284375,"end":16792.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16792.343468749998,"end":16792.444718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16792.444718749997,"end":16792.545968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16792.545968749997,"end":16792.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16797.25409375,"end":16798.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16800.59534375,"end":16805.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16806.72096875,"end":16820.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16822.701593750004,"end":16826.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16828.270343750002,"end":16832.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16836.47159375,"end":16837.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16840.87596875,"end":16842.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16842.749093749997,"end":16856.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16860.585968749998,"end":16861.210343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16866.82971875,"end":16870.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16870.50846875,"end":16887.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16888.04159375,"end":16891.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16891.281593749998,"end":16895.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16896.05721875,"end":16901.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16902.030968749998,"end":16905.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16906.90784375,"end":16909.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16909.87784375,"end":16913.202218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16913.944718749997,"end":16914.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16917.48846875,"end":16920.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16923.512843750003,"end":16923.529718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16923.529718750004,"end":16930.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16931.359718749998,"end":16933.030343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16933.78971875,"end":16939.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16940.286593750003,"end":16989.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16990.590968750003,"end":17004.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17005.289093749998,"end":17007.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17009.96346875,"end":17011.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17013.169718750003,"end":17028.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17028.593468749998,"end":17030.584718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17030.888468750003,"end":17034.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17038.718468749998,"end":17046.109718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17049.653468750003,"end":17050.092218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17050.395968750003,"end":17051.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17052.33659375,"end":17058.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17058.69846875,"end":17060.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17061.145343750002,"end":17062.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17065.54971875,"end":17067.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17067.64221875,"end":17084.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17084.449718750002,"end":17086.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17087.36909375,"end":17090.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17091.537218750003,"end":17094.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17096.53221875,"end":17104.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17104.699718750002,"end":17110.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17114.48721875,"end":17129.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17114.622218750003,"end":17115.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17130.38346875,"end":17132.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17132.560343750003,"end":17132.577218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17133.91034375,"end":17134.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17137.319093750004,"end":17146.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17148.52409375,"end":17155.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17155.999718749998,"end":17160.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17161.19721875,"end":17164.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17164.77471875,"end":17166.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17166.07409375,"end":17166.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17166.951593750004,"end":17167.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17167.00221875,"end":17167.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17167.035968750002,"end":17167.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17167.997843750003,"end":17168.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17169.145343750002,"end":17170.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17171.069093750004,"end":17172.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17174.79846875,"end":17175.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17175.591593750003,"end":17176.469093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17178.05534375,"end":17181.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17181.78471875,"end":17181.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17181.801593750002,"end":17181.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17181.919718750003,"end":17181.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17181.97034375,"end":17183.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17184.40034375,"end":17209.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17210.303468750004,"end":17211.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17211.83909375,"end":17212.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17212.26096875,"end":17212.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17212.66596875,"end":17213.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17213.39159375,"end":17214.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17215.889093750004,"end":17221.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17222.57159375,"end":17223.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17227.718468749998,"end":17227.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17227.802843750003,"end":17227.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17228.730968750002,"end":17240.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17243.192843750003,"end":17243.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17244.340343750002,"end":17246.179718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17247.529718750004,"end":17250.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17250.01034375,"end":17250.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17250.668468750002,"end":17264.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17264.99534375,"end":17265.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17265.029093750003,"end":17265.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17265.349718750003,"end":17265.366593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17265.366593749997,"end":17265.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17265.63659375,"end":17267.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17270.074718750002,"end":17277.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17278.410968750002,"end":17287.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17288.48534375,"end":17290.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17290.780343749997,"end":17291.75909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1663.058,"end":1685.457,"text":"報告委員會初期委員11人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會來現在開會進行報告事項那宣讀上次的會議議事錄立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制社會福利及衛生環境委員會第一次聯席會議議事錄時間中華民國115年1月7日星期三上午9時至下午2時30分"},{"start":1686.638,"end":1705.437,"text":"地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員林月琴委員等27人列席委員林德福委員等10人列席官員衛生福利部部長石崇良等人主席莊昭齊委員瑞雄討論事項1 病案審查行政院罕經審議衛生福利部組織法第二條第五條及第八條條文修正草案等10案2"},{"start":1706.238,"end":1732.936,"text":"病案審查行政院環境審議衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持署組織法草案等7案病案審查行政院環境審議衛生福利部長期照顧及社會發展署組織法草案等6案病案審查行政院環境審議衛生福利部中央健康保險署組織法第二條條文修正草案等5案病案審查行政院環境審議國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例草案等4案病案審查行政院環境審議國家中醫研究院設置條例草案等10案"},{"start":1733.516,"end":1750.623,"text":"本次會議有委員黃國昌等二十六人提出質詢委員邱振軍等三人提出書面質詢決議一報告及詢答完畢二第一案至第六案均另定期繼續審查三委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本聯席會宣讀完畢"},{"start":1753.261,"end":1765.615,"text":"請問各位上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏如果沒有錯誤跟遺漏我們議事錄就確定了接著我們來介紹大臥廠的委員跟應邀列席的官員在場有王正旭委員還有我們陳佩瑜委員"},{"start":1774.113,"end":1792.902,"text":"廖偉祥委員 笑臉過眼睛來 委員介紹完以後 接著我們介紹應邀列席的官員有我們衛福部石崇良部長早 昨天我讓你們來那麼多 不能讓你們黏那麼多"},{"start":1795.534,"end":1801.259,"text":"請參閱好不好還有行政院人事行政總署常務副人事長沈德蘭副人事長"},{"start":1808.53,"end":1831.488,"text":"我們其餘未介紹的列席代表請參閱名單我就不再一一來逐一介紹了並列入公報記錄了那本次的議程我們討論事項的排定繼續來並案審查行政院函請審議衛生福利部組織法第二條第五條第八條條文的修正草案等相關法案"},{"start":1832.168,"end":1851.875,"text":"一共有六案我們前面在前逾115年1月7號本會期司法法制跟社會福利及衛生環境委員會第一次的聯席會議審查決議是報告及詢答完畢以後均另定期繼續審查那本次會議我們在併入院會副委的"},{"start":1854.736,"end":1871.81,"text":"新增提案源於今日繼續來進行併案的審查那伊莉我們先進行在併入的新增提案的提案說明發言時間就三分鐘我們是不是先請我們王正旭委員來做提案說明這不快給你回覆一下"},{"start":1885.223,"end":1905.596,"text":"謝謝主席主席還有各位同仁還有衛福部的長官謝謝主席針對衛福部組織法等六個主改的法案其中特別在國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例以及衛福部組織法而家屬的部分希望能夠"},{"start":1906.457,"end":1932.386,"text":"提出兩個我認為在醫療權益跟兒少福利的重要議題所以利用這個時間跟大家做個提案說明第一就是醫療科技評估應該要明確的納入新醫療技術第二呢兒家屬的跨部會的協調權責應該要正式的入法有關於這個醫療科技評估納入新醫療技術的部分呢在行政院版國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例草案裡面"},{"start":1933.867,"end":1957.822,"text":"包括說醫療科技僅列出的這個藥品醫材 手術等處置的這個範疇實務上許多新的醫療技術可能並沒有完全的在包括在裡面以這個癌症有關所謂進階治療為例或者是BNCT就是膨脹值的補貨治療為例他們其實是結合了手術"},{"start":1958.843,"end":1983.911,"text":"也結合了放射源跟藥物的特性導致未來在主審的時候可能會造成一些困難所以我建議應該設置條例裡面第三條立法說明明確納入新醫療技術避免審查範圍受限而目前的醫事師委託醫策會審查的新醫療技術人體試驗裡面未來也應該討論是否整合到整個評估中心確保"},{"start":1985.171,"end":2012.551,"text":"業務的一致性否則的話不同的部會呢它會分別根據自己的權責做處理事實上很多的新醫療科技它是會橫跨不同的這些面向那第二個是有關兒家屬跨部會協調權責入法的部分新成立的兒少及家庭支持屬將整合保護師 社工師及社家屬的相關業務但過去兒童事務分散在各組裡面哪裡推動跨部會的溝通"},{"start":2013.251,"end":2040.296,"text":"是一個現實的困境若無明確的法源兒家屬將難以主導跨部會政策支援的整合所以應該參考內政部新住民業務範圍將衛福部組織法第五條修正草案中明文的增加兒家屬具備兒少事項的協調權責以上兩點關乎台灣醫療的前瞻性跟孩子成長的安全環見譴衛福部跟各位同仁"},{"start":2040.976,"end":2045.321,"text":"能夠將這個納入考量再度謝謝主席 謝謝好 謝謝王振旭委員提案說明接下來請廖偉祥委員來進行提案說明來 算不用跟你講一下 對吧"},{"start":2066.892,"end":2094.924,"text":"感謝我們的召委感謝主席這次的排案那衛福部這一次的組織法修正中我想大家也都非常關注而且是很重要的亮點莫過於將12年前裁測的兒童局重新納入體制設立兒少級家庭支持署然而本席關切的是兒家署未來定位為三級機關是否真的能有效發揮跨部會跨體系的橫向整合功能"},{"start":2095.504,"end":2114.481,"text":"那我想關鍵也不僅在於組織是否成立更在於治理模式可不可以真正的轉型否則呢也難以務實的回應少子化與兒少發展的結構性挑戰那我想未來兒家屬也應該以跨域治理為核心那也建立制度化的橫向協調機制實質的串聯醫療社福教育與司法體系"},{"start":2120.606,"end":2136.965,"text":"避免政策各自為政資源零碎分散那本席也要特別提醒在醫療與社福的整合上相關的預算當然也必須要足夠和到位還有人員也要到位才能將早期介入與預防導向真正落實"},{"start":2138.146,"end":2165.023,"text":"那另外在職長定位上兒家屬不應只有既有的業務的診病單位而應該成為政策創新的引擎所以青少年政策應該涵蓋身心健康和風險行為預防與社會參與那家庭支持與育兒支持則需要回應不同生命階段與多元家庭形態提供連續且可進的支持服務"},{"start":2166.285,"end":2175.224,"text":"最後所有政策目標能否落實當然仍然取決於人力預算以及整體的制度設計是不是都有到位"},{"start":2175.973,"end":2198.026,"text":"那兒家屬的正式編制的人力與年度預算規模為何然後成立後呢國家整體兒少相關預算佔中央政府總預算及GDP的比例是否定有明確的成長目標與其成也是檢視政府對兒少權益長期承諾的關鍵指標好 那謝謝感謝我們的主席 謝謝"},{"start":2200.424,"end":2226.025,"text":"好 謝謝廖委員 韋翔的提案說明接下來請陳培宇委員來做說明你剛有暗嗎 今天嗎上次你已經 你有講過就好 反正你考察好大家都知道"},{"start":2228.07,"end":2252.498,"text":"來 我們提案說明已進行完畢現在我們就來進行討論事項討論前我先請議事人員一併來宣讀討論事項六案當中新增的提案的條文宣讀時間才會六分鐘如果有收到新的修正動議我們就一併來做宣讀宣讀以後我們馬上要來主案進行討論我們請宣讀條文"},{"start":2257.109,"end":2284.188,"text":"討論事項第一案 衛生福利部組織法 瓜湖十一委員吳麗華等提案第二條 除將第十條條文第十款條文中的與修正為及其餘各款均同行政院提案 第五條除將第二款化妝品質管理前的頓耗修正為與第四款刪除生育照護四個字 第五款後段修正為五 兒少及家庭自治署規劃與執行托育照護 早期療癒兒童及少年之福利與權益保障 醫療照護"},{"start":2285.529,"end":2304.194,"text":"健康促進心理健康促進及家庭支持服務事項並增列第7款其原住民健康照顧署統籌規劃並推動原住民族健康促進文化安全之醫療照護強化原鄉醫療資源部件並辦理健康不平等之改善及其相關調查研究事項外"},{"start":2304.654,"end":2329.842,"text":"其餘同行政院提案 瓜虎十二 委員王珍旭等提案同行政院提案 瓜虎十三 委員張雅玲等提案除將第五條第五款修正為五 兒少及家庭自治署規劃與執行托育照護 早期療癒兒童與少年福利及權益保障 輕職教育與家庭支持服務並統籌兒童與少年之健康促進預防保健與醫療照護相關政策 其餘均同行政院提案"},{"start":2330.322,"end":2356.248,"text":"瓜湖十四委員王宏威等提案條文均同行政院提案瓜湖十五委員徐曉欣等提案同行政院提案瓜湖十六委員劉建國等提案除將第五條第五款修正為五兒小及家庭支持署規劃與執行托育照護早期療癒兒童少年福利與權益保障家庭支持服務健康促進事項及因應少子化政策規劃外其餘均同行政院提案討論事項第二案衛生福利部兒小及家庭支持署組織法"},{"start":2357.648,"end":2382.305,"text":"8.委員王森旭等提案 同行政院提案9.委員張耀林等提案 除將第二項第12款分別修正為2.兒童少年保護性剝削防治性侵害防止安置與照顧政策之規劃推動與執行及相關法規之原定12.兒童及少年偏差行為輔導之規劃整合統籌及跨機關政策協調及第6條修正為本法實行日期"},{"start":2382.705,"end":2392.31,"text":"由行政院以命令定之外 名稱及其餘條文均同委員羅廷偉等提案 瓜湖市委員汪洪偉等提案 瓜湖市委員徐曉欣等提案均同行政院提案"},{"start":2393.854,"end":2417.763,"text":"瓜胡12 委員李燕秀等提案 名稱及第1條 第2條序文及第1款均同行政院提案 增列第2款生育促進友善環境與養育等少子女化對策之規劃 第3到6款同行政院提案2到5款第7款修正為期兒童少年醫療健康促進預防保健防止虐待與疏忽防治政策之規劃 第8 12"},{"start":2419.784,"end":2447.399,"text":"第八至十二款同行政院提案 七到十一款 第三條至第六條均同行政院提案 括弧十三委員廖偉祥等提案 除第六條修正為本法事情日期由行政院訂之外 名稱及其餘條文均同行政院提案 括弧十四委員劉建國等提案名稱及第一條均同行政院提案 第二條第一款至第四款默劇的及前均增加一個逗號 其餘文字同行政院提案 五 兒童少年遭受不當對待暴力與虐待之"},{"start":2448.419,"end":2474.98,"text":"之預防防止早期介入及跨體系保護政策之規劃推動與執行並嚴定相關法規六 兒童少年遭受霸凌歧視或其他侵害及身輕發展行為之預防防止及諮詢支持與通報體系之規劃推動與協調七 因少子女化趨勢營造支持結婚生育及育兒之社會環境並就兒童及家庭支持相關政策進行整理規劃推動與協調第八款中型支援提案第五款第九款默劇的都號修正為即"},{"start":2475.62,"end":2491.418,"text":"第十款同行政院提案第七款十一 兒童少年福利機構及兒童少年與家庭支持福利服務事項之監督輔導及考核十二 兒童少年與家庭支持業務資資通訊應用發展國際合作及交流第十三款同行政院提案第十一款"},{"start":2492.099,"end":2520.045,"text":"第三條至第六條均同行政院提案 討論事項第三案 衛生福利部長期照顧及發展署組織法 括弧七委員王珍旭等提案 同行政院提案 括弧八委員張雅玲等提案 除第二條第一款與規劃後增列研究兩個字之外 名稱及其餘條文均同行政院提案 括弧九委員王鴻衛等提案 括弧十委員徐曉新等提案 均同行政院提案 括弧十一委員廖偉翔等提案 除將第六條修正委本法實行日期由行政院定之外"},{"start":2520.825,"end":2538.359,"text":"名稱及其餘條文均同行政院提案括弧十二委員劉建國等提案同行政院提案討論事項第四案衛生福利部中央健康保險署組織法括弧六委員林月琴等提案第二條括弧七委員王珍聚等提案第二條及括弧八委員徐小新等提案第二條均同行政院提案"},{"start":2539.279,"end":2564.571,"text":"討論事項第五案 國家醫療科技評估中心實質條例 括弧五委員林苑晴等 括弧六委員王珍旭等 括弧七委員徐小青等 括弧八委員劉建國等提案 致名稱各張章名及條文均同行政院提案討論事項第六案 國家中醫研究院實質條例 括弧十一委員羅廷偉等提案 足將第四條第一項修正為本院辦理前條第一款業務的附設中醫研究教學醫療機構 其名稱各張章名及條文均同行政院提案"},{"start":2565.251,"end":2589.049,"text":"括弧十二 委員王珍區域等提案 同行政院提案 括弧十三委員張雅玲等提案對照委員中加病等提案除第五條第一項第三至四款及第二項為同行政院提案及第九條第二項修正為政府機關代表之董事監視因應職務進退不受前項續併次數制限制依第六條第一項第二款之第四款及第七條第一項第二款之規定聘任之董事監視任期間滿錢出缺者由監督機關領選"},{"start":2590.29,"end":2618.429,"text":"提請行政院院長補聘之其任期至原任者之任期屆滿為止第十五條第一項及第二項分別修正為董事監視應遵守利益迴避原則不得利用職務上之權利機會及或方法塗抹本人或關係人之利益其利益迴避之範圍及違反實質處置由監督機關定之董事監視相互間不得有配偶及三金等以內血清陰性之關係第十六條第二項目據修正為行為人應對其負損害賠償責任第十九條序文刪除及院長三個字"},{"start":2618.929,"end":2643.233,"text":"第二項第一款默劇增列有確實證據 第三款前段修正為三本院當屆年度績效評鑑第七款條文中的時期修正為十六 第二十七條第七項的返還修正為歸還 第三十二條第一項前段修正為本條例實行前衛生福利部國家中醫藥研究所現有編制內依供人員相關任用法律任用人員與機關改制"},{"start":2643.753,"end":2666.986,"text":"之日 隨同移轉本院繼續任用者 第二項修正為前項修正 前項繼續任用任用人員中 人事及主計人員之管理與其他公務人員同 第三具聚首增列前二項三個字 第三十九條默劇修正為第三十七條及前條之規定以外 其名稱 各項照明及條文均同委員 專家兵等提案 括弧十四委員徐曉清等提案 同行進行提案 宣讀完畢"},{"start":2671.378,"end":2699.27,"text":"繼續宣讀修正動力部分討論事項一共兩件目前收到兩件修正動力一第五條對照行政院版第五條處第五款中規劃與執行托育照護修正為規劃頓耗執行與協調托育照護外與未修正提案人王正旭等人修正動力二"},{"start":2701.752,"end":2730.729,"text":"第五條對照行政院版提案除第六款修正為社會發展及長照署外與未修正提案人林月琴 連署人等人討論事項第二案共兩件修正動議一第三條對照行政院提案除比照檢認第十三指等等至三處外與"},{"start":2732.492,"end":2760.229,"text":"委修正提案人黃國昌等人討論事項第二案修正動議二第二條修正文字請參閱書面資料提案人林月琴等人討論事項第三案修正動議共兩件修正動議一第三條對照行政院提案除比照檢驗第十三等值等或或"},{"start":2761.089,"end":2780.365,"text":"等文字刪除外與未修正提案人黃國昌等人導入事項三修正動力二第一條修正將修正為社會發展及產造屬外與未修正提案人林月琴等人宣讀完畢"},{"start":2798.756,"end":2822.082,"text":"條文宣讀完畢我們現在來進行討論討論事項第一案就病案審查行政院函請審議衛生福利部組織法第二條第五條 第八條條文修正草案等16案請問在場的委員是不是要先進行大體討論或者要直接進入諸條審查直接"},{"start":2825.049,"end":2839.106,"text":"好啦 那就直接來進入主條審查繼續來進行主條討論那本案是部分修正一共有"},{"start":2840.747,"end":2853.173,"text":"要處理的是三條那第二條行政院的提案還有委員等 我再加下去這2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15個提案那請問在場的委員有什麼意見"},{"start":2866.924,"end":2874.147,"text":"來 范雲委員 主席 我有一個修正動議不知道是不是已經發下來了 好 好 好像還沒有發下來 等一下好不好 現在在經歷"},{"start":2902.563,"end":2922.647,"text":"你修正的範圍你的也要先宣讀我們現在先宣讀好不好還是要宣讀請宣讀宣讀衛生福利部修正動力3"},{"start":2928.922,"end":2953.208,"text":"第二條除第四款修正為婦女權利保障婦女福利服務社會參與及家庭暴力性侵害性騷擾防治與其他服務保護服務業務之政策規劃管理監督推動執行及相關法規之原定外與未修正提案人陳佩瑜范雲"},{"start":2954.482,"end":2957.404,"text":"等人宣讀完畢繼續宣讀討論事項一修正動議事第二條對照行政院提案"},{"start":2988.1,"end":3012.352,"text":"第六款修正為護理政策法令之規劃管理監督及研究第八款心理健康精神疾病防治相關政策與物質成癮防治政策規劃管理及監督增訂第二項"},{"start":3015.165,"end":3039.456,"text":"本法實行前本部原聘僱用之約聘僱人員及約聘僱用之行政助理於本法實行後原任職之單位經裁測或整併者均列測管制繼續任原職並依原適用法令規定之標準及原聘僱用計畫繼續辦理至離職或退休時為止"},{"start":3044.107,"end":3073.2,"text":"提案人陳昭芝等人繼續宣讀修正動議修正動議第三案修正動議三第二條修正文字請參閱書面資料提案人林月琴等人繼續宣讀修正討論事項第五案修正動議一第一條"},{"start":3074.97,"end":3095.504,"text":"對照行政院提案為促進全民健康與福祉針對衛生醫療相關政策應用醫療科技評估方法作為合理醫療資料資源配置與健康政策決策之依據特設國家醫療科技評估中心以下檢證本中心並制定本條例"},{"start":3096.633,"end":3116.105,"text":"本中心應結合醫療科技評估方法學識證基礎及社會倫理價值並建立具可科則性治理與監督機制第3條修正文字請參閱書面資料第6條"},{"start":3128.039,"end":3139.195,"text":"第二項修正委不得於董事總人數三分之一提案人陳昭芝等人 宣讀完畢"},{"start":3142.591,"end":3165.211,"text":"好 我們現在剛剛所宣讀的有行政院還有一共本來是15後來又增加了范雲等4人所提修正動議還有程昭芝等3人所提修正動議現在是不是請機關來做一個說明請我們衛福部 石部長"},{"start":3165.711,"end":3191.642,"text":"好 主席跟各位委員那這個我們先討論到組織法的部分那麼第二條主要是因應我們這整個這一次的主改業務的移動所以我們修正了第二條的執檔內容那麼原條文裡面有關生育及托育照護政策我們會移到未來的兒少數所以在第二條裡面的予以刪除"},{"start":3192.262,"end":3211.273,"text":"那麼長照服務跟早療那麼分別會移到長照會移到這個長期照顧及社會發展署那早療的話也是到兒少署所以我們這一個原本條文的第7款那麼我們也把它做了修正"},{"start":3212.653,"end":3240.183,"text":"那這個其餘的委員的版本裡面呢那麼有關於健保及國民年金這是林業勤委員跟王毓民委員的版本那麼因為這個國民年金跟健保的監理仍然留著所以我們條文把監理留下但是呢有關於全民健保的法規政策規劃則移到了這個健保署所以我們這個"},{"start":3241.503,"end":3265.728,"text":"建議按照行政院的版本來來通過那至於有這個核心存委員提到文字在社工人力配置因為在我們第三款就有社會工作社會資源社會社區發展所以已經包含在人力裡頭那麼建議也維持這個行政院的版本以上另外林月琴委員有"},{"start":3266.468,"end":3295.3,"text":"特別提出這個所屬中醫藥研究跟這個司法精神研究因為我們這一次並同成立國家中醫研究院的行政法人所以我們建議這個不需要再列在這個所屬我們已經調整所以已經沒有所屬的國家中醫藥研究所了所以這個一併也刪除建議維持這個行政院版本以上說明"},{"start":3297.008,"end":3316.899,"text":"好 謝謝 石部長說明行政院 衛福部現在已經說明完畢了那接下來我看一共17個委員的一個提案石部長您知道 我就參照您行政院當然很多裡面大同小異77個跟你們合夥的 我就去做一個版本"},{"start":3323.538,"end":3346.631,"text":"來 您整理一下有一個版本是不是要發下去還是說我們投在這個螢幕上給大家看一下我看要發下來還是要發下來好 那就趕快印一下先給那個現場的委員因為你17個版本你這不整合一下一定是"},{"start":3354.48,"end":3355.762,"text":"那是不是我們在場的委員來了針對這第二條沒有什麼要來做這先走手就先歐一姐來 范雲委員"},{"start":3373.22,"end":3402.76,"text":"好 謝謝昭緯那這邊我有一個修正動議主要是關於那個本部長裡下列事項的第四項那原本是家庭暴力性侵害性騷擾防治與其他保護服務業務之政策規劃管理及監督那我的修正動議是在前面加幾個字婦女權益保障 頓號婦女福利服務 頓號社會參與及後面就是原來的家庭暴力等等然後在監督之後再加上"},{"start":3403.46,"end":3429.456,"text":"推動執行及相關法規之嚴定為什麼要這樣提大家知道說我們其實行政院裡面有個性別平等處可是他完全都沒有是說辦法執行就是直接到業務的部分他只能做管考有業務明確的其實就只有衛福部過去放在第三級的婦女福利的與政策規劃組"},{"start":3430.797,"end":3450.265,"text":"那大家婦女團體感覺到說長期婦女福利業務在衛福部當中雖然有可是處於一個比較邊陲的位置那依照過去在社家署下面的統計現在的婦女福利科其實只有7個員額那業務也只有占社家署的公務預算的0.12%"},{"start":3452.706,"end":3468.02,"text":"在公益彩券的回饋金中占比只有6.81%我們是非常肯定這一次衛福部的改組能夠更重視兒童的兒少相關權益還有長照3.0這非常的重要也是賴總統的政見但是"},{"start":3470.962,"end":3493.975,"text":"我們也會擔心說有些團體就是會擔心在三級機關底下的其中一個組別那沒有辦法改善長期資源不足這個議題在衛福部裡面好像比較邊緣化而且擔心長照未來是重中之重會不會更邊緣化那當然也是有團體覺得也許放在長照署這裡是好的"},{"start":3494.335,"end":3508.271,"text":"不過大家整體的共識不管怎麼想大家就是希望提升人力預算以及就是婦女福利跟婦女權益的議題在衛福部當中可以更主流不要太邊緣化"},{"start":3509.372,"end":3527.234,"text":"那根據中央行政機關組織基準法下面各司底下可以設4到8顆那署底下各組只有3到6顆所以我這邊有幫我們一些婦女團體大家提一個案子就是除了社家署下面的婦女福利組之外希望能夠"},{"start":3528.195,"end":3542.452,"text":"婦女權益跟婦女福利跟保護私合併提升到二級機關當然也要跟大家講就是說有團體也擔心說那這樣子署這邊是不是就無法執行了所以我想"},{"start":3543.072,"end":3566.497,"text":"大家都有這個憂慮但是共同的看法就是提升成績 提升人力跟資源所以請衛福部待會兒是不是能夠說明一下就是放在署底下的主跟放在私底下各自婦女相關的業務會有幾個科會有多少人那我也這邊也要肯定社家署過去大力支持督導地方政府"},{"start":3566.937,"end":3583.805,"text":"其實各縣市包含我們主席在內的這個屏東跟台東其實都已經在它過去這個社會福利的相關的規劃中出現很多跨領域的跨局處的方案譬如說中高齡女性成立照顧工作合作社"},{"start":3584.565,"end":3611.147,"text":"身心障礙母親的育兒支持部落婦女經濟賠利還有未成年懷孕母親的創業支持只是這些方案好像還沒有機會能夠更滲透更成為縣市政府或者是全國性的政策所以我們覺得這些很好的過去衛福部下面的婦女福利的相關業務是不是能夠在這個改組的過程中在私的部分"},{"start":3612.148,"end":3625.472,"text":"有一些不同的名稱包含婦女權益及保護司或是婦女權與安全司希望能夠多一點點讓大家有凝聚共識的機會所以今天有一個不情之請希望朝偉說這一條因為我們婦女團體快要有共識"},{"start":3628.973,"end":3644.152,"text":"但是共識就是我們有絕對的共識就是要增加人力預算跟那個層級那可是關於就是說是完全移動到私或者屬還是有一些不同意見是不是能夠先行保留因為"},{"start":3644.953,"end":3664.794,"text":"在第二回合的時候或者是委員會協商的時候那大家能夠有一個更清楚的方向等到衛福部能夠有更明確的說明因為這一波改組就是婦女團體知道的時候時間點比較晚一點那這邊也先跟召委還有大家還有跟部長就是表達一下我們對這個議題的關切以上 謝謝"},{"start":3668.779,"end":3681.944,"text":"這條一定跟您保留 您的意見都不一樣跟您提案說明都不一樣再來請鄭天才委員也表達一下不同的意見我等一下就先暫保留了好 召委 各位委員還有我們衛福部及各機關"},{"start":3684.305,"end":3699.415,"text":"這個有關第二條會跟這個後面的第五條有連動關係這個盧縣衣委員跟本席共同提案的條文裡面就是特別針對原住民族的部分"},{"start":3700.296,"end":3715.258,"text":"那因為長期以來我們一再的從過去的這個衛福部的組織法我們就希望這個要求這個衛福部能夠重視原住民族的健康醫療各方面"},{"start":3715.939,"end":3733.798,"text":"所以我們一直希望能夠提升相關的層級但是始終都沒有辦法列在這個衛福部的連一個師都沒有辦法所以盧憲一委員跟本席事實上還有武理法委員也有提案"},{"start":3735.019,"end":3764.419,"text":"這個希望能夠將另外成立這個原住民健康照顧署這個部分因為事實上就原住民族的健康的議題大家都很清楚包括我們的生命這個平均移民都差距都非常大所以這個部分是會跟第二條或跟第五條都有聯動的關係所以在這邊特別說明希望這個衛福部能夠支持希望各位委員能夠支持以上"},{"start":3766.322,"end":3773.015,"text":"第二層委員再來在黃玉明委員第二層委員來 你先"},{"start":3776.294,"end":3804.22,"text":"你們要不要 我來 請因為我要去質詢好 謝謝岳勤委員有關於這個第二款的部分行政院版的修正他把全民健康保險及國民年金業務之監理他改成是這樣子原來其實是衛福部應該要負責全民健康保險國民年金財務之政策規劃管理及監督雖然他提案說明有寫但是其實我們這邊是修衛福部組織法的第二條"},{"start":3805.18,"end":3824.093,"text":"那你說這個健保署這個有一些業務移到健保署但是TOTO你是衛福部所以在這個組織裡面第二條你的所有的職長裡面我覺得應該是要維持原來的現行的條文它涵蓋的面向才是比較廣"},{"start":3824.895,"end":3842.394,"text":"那至於之後你說那個在中央健保署有分工他會做更多的規劃我覺得那是另外一回事所以我的意見是原來第二款應該維持這個本期提出來我提出來就是原來的現行條文因為畢竟全民健保國民年金有關財務"},{"start":3843.675,"end":3864.132,"text":"跟政策規劃管理還是很重要的一環好 謝謝王一鳴委員我們再發言一位我知道你們都有你們的意見要表達我聽了四位 四位意見都不一樣了那這個條文 大家你們不用煩惱等一下我就暫保留了衛福部再去溝通看看"},{"start":3865.593,"end":3882.687,"text":"這個林業勤委員你發言完畢以後我們就進入下一條因為這一條沒有共識前面就每一個人就已經有五個人不一樣了請林業勤委員來發言好因為剛剛范委員提到說要在這邊第四款去放婦女權益保障跟婦女福利服務"},{"start":3883.348,"end":3900.999,"text":"社會參與這一定要有點跟合併我們在長髮署的時候要做討論嗎如果婦女放這邊那長髮署就要把婦女移開來我覺得我還是要幫團體表達意見了有其他婦女團體是認為要改再發第二條"},{"start":3904.461,"end":3916.226,"text":"基於幾個理由 認為應該要去調整原來主改的邏輯都是用人口別那你現在又把婦女拉到功能別那邊跟"},{"start":3917.15,"end":3939.588,"text":"保護放在一起似乎跟這次主改的整個邏輯好像沒辦法切合因為兒少然後身障長照婦女一個放在家屬一個放在我們的長發屬那現在又要變成把婦女單純拉出來這個用人口別又跟功能別併在一起大家婦女團體也會擔心說那這樣子會不會產生第二個問題就是"},{"start":3941.23,"end":3948.1,"text":"婦女福利的整個的原本希望以他們為主體的就會不見為什麼當然你說放在那邊會主體不見可是本來在那邊是三個主體先來到這邊的話也會擔心的是跟保護綁在一起"},{"start":3955.931,"end":3975.03,"text":"怕婦女只剩下保護的這樣的一個功能所在就是說那婦理服務的權益倡導跟婦理服務到底要不要做第三個大概因為對於他們來講的話就是希望整個交織性的服務門檻要降低為什麼因為到時候婦女對接在高齡對接在身障的話放在長發屬會"},{"start":3976.849,"end":3987.405,"text":"是理想的這是這一塊主張所以我也同意剛才趙薇講的就是整個先保留因為否則的話現在馬上就要決定一個是放在這邊還是等一下在長髮署討論以上謝謝"},{"start":3990.097,"end":4017.114,"text":"我是要給你們解釋 不然我就要保留你們大家的意見差距那麼大因為本來是說林若晴講完可是因為成昭之委員他有提修正動議我等成昭之委員來 請你發言簡單講一下就好了因為意見差距太大了我等一下就先暫時保留然後機關去溝通看看有機會的話 第二輪再回來好不好 請成昭之委員"},{"start":4019.349,"end":4047.223,"text":"因為這次修這個維護部的組織法我想這個很重要一點是在請看我的修正動議在員工的部分我們再徵修一條就是說本來是寫其他有關衛生福利事項我們這個地方我們希望能夠徵修一條在本法實施前本部原聘僱用之約聘僱人員及原約僱用之行政助理於本法實施後實行後原任指示單位經裁測或整併者"},{"start":4048.744,"end":4062.389,"text":"軍列冊管制繼續任原職並依原適用法令規定之標準及原聘用計劃繼續辦理治理職或退休時為止我們希望部長能夠就這個事情做一個說明您的員工啊您的員工陳情這件事是"},{"start":4074.994,"end":4089.917,"text":"按照過去內政部組織好幾個好幾個部會機關他們在做這個組織法的修正書都提掉都適用這一條所以這次我個人認為是衛福部漏掉了漏掉了這個部分報告委員這一點因為這個部分這不是詢問啦這不是詢問啦這陳昭之委員的發言謝謝陳昭之委員"},{"start":4104.537,"end":4112.219,"text":"第二條這個意見就差距太大了那是不是我們請因為衛福部剛也提出了一個修正那你一個條文那按照我們在場委員的意見其實有很多不同那也是你的修正的一個條文"},{"start":4123.203,"end":4131.574,"text":"我們看看等一下有沒有辦法溝通完取得共識再來提出我們就先暫保留回頭再來處理那也請衛福部去做一個溝通那我們先來進行第五條第五條我們也請衛福部先來做說明"},{"start":4141.809,"end":4164.126,"text":"跟委員說明第五條我們是新設這個刺激機關那個兒少第五款兒少及家庭支持署那原本的行政院的條文呢是指規劃與執行托育服務早期療癒兒童少年福利與權益保障家庭支持服務及健康促進事項"},{"start":4165.467,"end":4183.707,"text":"那這個幾位委員特別有提到希望這個未來這個兒少署還能夠有一些包含這個生命統計包含預防保健醫療照護等等業務的統籌所以我們有建議把這個"},{"start":4186.45,"end":4206.165,"text":"職長的文字稍微做一個修正在我們發下去的建議條文裡面呢那麼讓這個兒少及家庭支持署呢那麼我們重新修正文字為規劃與執行托育照顧早期療癒兒童及少年福利權益保障家庭支持服務事項分號"},{"start":4208.666,"end":4232.191,"text":"統籌兒童及少年之生命統計健康促進預防保健及醫療照護相關政策那麼這個已經採納了幾位委員的意見我們把它包含林月琴委員包含這個吳立華委員等我們已經把它納進那麼另外在國民健康署的部分我們也"},{"start":4232.691,"end":4261.124,"text":"希望借這個機會也修訂一個文字那麼我們把這個生育照顧把它擴大一點那麼成為生育健康所以我們建議修正的文字是這個國民健康署規劃與執行生育健康國民健康促進及癌症與其他非傳染病之防治事項那以上的說明再請委員支持"},{"start":4262.328,"end":4281.775,"text":"來 王振旭委員好 謝謝主席謝謝剛剛部長的說明那有關於第五條裡面第五款兒少跟家庭支持署的部分那早上在做提案說明的時候也特別強調為什麼需要把這裡面的內文再加上協調這兩個字這個協調的"},{"start":4285.896,"end":4314.015,"text":"位置就放在剛剛出了部長所說明以外在規劃頓耗執行與協調托育照護等等那之所以會這樣的這個期待跟希望能夠把協調放進在這個兒童特別放在這個兒童及家庭支持署裡面就是有鑑於我們的托育照護早期療癒兒童少年福利跟權益的保障家庭支持的服務健康促進事項業務真的非常"},{"start":4314.795,"end":4338.381,"text":"多的部會都會受到影響包括教育部法律部司法院內政部等等那以前就是因為我們相關的單位成績真的非常的不足跟其他的單位做互相的協調所以我們才希望能夠把協調這兩個字放進來那其實這是參考包括內政部組織法第五條新住民事務政策是協調明文規定"},{"start":4340.382,"end":4362.342,"text":"由新住民發展署主責教育部組織法第五條協調學校教育事項也明文規定由國民及學前教育署主責另外在環境部組織法的第二條交通部組織法第二條及數位部發展組織法第二條等部會的組織法都有將協調"},{"start":4363.863,"end":4388.738,"text":"全責明文入法這範例所以才會修正第五款的這個文字也就是說我們在修正動議裡面特別將第五條的第五條的第五款有關兒少跟家庭支持署裡面把協調這兩個字能夠明文入法以上請各位委員支持也請部長支持謝謝好 謝謝王政帥委員再來我看先給七位"},{"start":4389.775,"end":4417.37,"text":"立下姓阿貴碗天才阿貴碗吳宗憲委員來 另外請委員好 我的那個第六款這邊那衛福部原本寫的事實上是長照及社會發展署那我認為應該把它修正是社會發展及長照署因為這樣子會有比較有助於正確認知該署是要以社會發展為主"},{"start":4418.09,"end":4419.751,"text":"为基础然后长照服务"},{"start":4448.31,"end":4477.342,"text":"及長照署會比較合理以上謝謝好請鄭天才委員好有關這個第5條的部分剛才本席也在第2條的時候也特別提到這個原住民族的健康醫療照護各方面都是跟這個一般這個非原住民的差距非常的大尤其是我們很多都在"},{"start":4478.322,"end":4503.901,"text":"偏鄉地區相關的醫療各方面更是需求很多但是一直沒有辦法達成我們剛才也剛才我也提到這個盧憲英委員跟本期共同的提案還有吳立華委員也都有提案針對這個原住民族的健康照顧應該要另外成立一個署所以在這個"},{"start":4505.842,"end":4531.289,"text":"第七款裡面特別增加原住民健康照顧署來規劃以執行原住民主健康促進文化安全醫療照護原鄉醫療資源部件健康不平等改善等相關的這些包括相關的調查研究所以這個部分也請這個衛福部以及各位委員能夠支持以上好 接下來請吳宗憲委員"},{"start":4532.745,"end":4558.973,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想法律的規定本來都是環環相扣不是說單一個法條所以我現在提的一個東西就是它可能還會牽涉到組織法但我盡快把它講完因為我剛看了一下我們第二條的規範我們現在在講第五條但第二條的規範裡面我發現就是有很多東西是羅列在各個單位的業務範圍下"},{"start":4562.93,"end":4579.558,"text":"那所以說譬如說我們衛福部我們剛第二條有提到衛福部的那個事項有把它列舉成什麼兒少家庭長照等等的那我們今天講到第五條的時候第五條我們有一個第五款是新增兒少及家庭支持署"},{"start":4580.518,"end":4604.017,"text":"但是我現在的一個問題就是說因為這個兒少的保護其實牽動了蠻廣甚至連包括到我們現在國安問題的少子化少子化可能都會跟這個兒少的支持都會有關聯性所以這等於我們是面對的是一個國家級的問題那我又看了一下有關兒少的保護在日本它是只屬於首相"},{"start":4610.16,"end":4620.125,"text":"全名叫做兒童家庭廳兒童家庭廳只屬於首相韓國是由副總理兼任我的意見是這樣"},{"start":4626.808,"end":4647.243,"text":"對於幼童的保護是必須跨部會我們少子化又是國安問題為什麼我們把這麼重要的一個業務是交給一個三級機關來處理這是我的第一個問題第二個問題是我看了一下我們第五條第五款有關的"},{"start":4649.989,"end":4674.489,"text":"邵家屬我看他的那個組織法草案裡面的第二條他是寫本署長理某某某某業務這樣子所以這個文字上面看起來是比較偏向是承辦而不是他一元化的主責因為我看到因為你們的第二條就是本署長理什麼什麼業務這樣所以我的感覺我從我對法律文字的理解有一點類似是"},{"start":4675.47,"end":4703.682,"text":"承辦機關它沒有說一個議員化的這種組織的概念然後另外就是這個兒少這個專屬的這個預算它有沒有一個獨立科目或者是這個成長目標因為我之前是社家屬那你只是掐了一點點業務進去然後換了一個名字換了一個名字之後其實它還是三級機關那還是叫做它只是改名叫做少家屬那其實"},{"start":4704.722,"end":4721.979,"text":"好像也差不多沒有特別增加的權力尤其是我又看了一下署長是檢任13職等一個檢任13職等他其實在行政院裡面他的位階其實沒有算很高"},{"start":4723.681,"end":4741.989,"text":"这时候如果说有一些譬如说他跟劳动部去谈论育婴假内政部谈论一些赦宅等等的政策他找劳动部长或找内政部长的时候对方会听他的因为我就说我自己公务员干了24年我们公务员对上就是写一个签证都要写职是什么什么名字这样"},{"start":4742.529,"end":4770.308,"text":"古時候叫做卑職古時候我會自稱卑職那現在我們自稱職那當我一個十三職等的一個署長我要去跟部長級的人我們要談論這個跨部會的這個對於兒少的保護或者是我們要搶救少子化等等這一方面的牽連關係的議題的時候那我要怎麼去跟他談所以這也是我的一個覺得有一個問題譬如說我們之前那個凱凱案凱凱案其實我們後來從那個案子為什麼會重視那個案子因為我們發現那個案"},{"start":4772.649,"end":4788.554,"text":"案子其實它跟戶政的一些失聯警政 衛政等等的都有後來我們發現都有牽連性因為橫向有一些聯繫上有一些問題只有這邊漏一點那邊漏一點社會就會有一些"},{"start":4789.474,"end":4804.906,"text":"一些悲剧会发生所以我刚刚看了一下我觉得基本上你这个第5条我们现在审查的第5条其实跟组织法也有关联性所以我这边就因为有关联性所以我再提一个就是说那我们是不是说"},{"start":4806.107,"end":4827.898,"text":"我一個建議 就跟這個衛福部長官建議就是這個兒家屬的署長他可不可以兼任就是行政院譬如說我這個建議就是行政院社會福利推動委員會的執行長或副召集人等等的這樣讓他層級拉高我們能夠保護好小孩子因為這個絕對是跨部會 跨部門"},{"start":4829.039,"end":4850.933,"text":"沒有辦法由一個三級機關來辦理你我都當過很久的公務員我們很了解層級不高你要去跟上面談是有限職上面的困難好 謝謝這些意見其實在詢答裡面大家都問過了那我們今天就每一個版本都長得不一樣重點在這個地方所以我們這一條我們先暫保留"},{"start":4857.338,"end":4877.736,"text":"接下來我們來看第8條第8條我們是不是也請石崇良部長來做說明主席 謝謝主席那麼有關第8條行政院提案是明訂這個本次修正後的條文那麼由這個在"},{"start":4880.758,"end":4906.083,"text":"107年的6月13日那麼修正公佈條文來實施這個是明訂修正修正條文的實施日期 以上這樣啦 第八條 這一條就長得反而比較一樣了啦就只有林月琴而已 你就跟人家比較不一樣啦"},{"start":4907.481,"end":4921.063,"text":"是不是我們這一條我們就按照行政院的版本在場委員們有沒有什麼意見現在跟林耀清委員你有意見嗎你再表達一下好不好"},{"start":4923.356,"end":4943.706,"text":"版本差距過大的我全部給你保留啦都先暫保留啦像這個就只有你跟行政院沒講而已其他委員也沒有什麼特別的意見是不是我們就按照衛福部好那我們第8條在場委員都沒有特別的意見我們就按照衛福部的議案來做來通過再來"},{"start":5034.118,"end":5036.521,"text":"這一條是不是請法治宇宣表示一下意見你們那個每一個版本都差異都很大你們也要把關一下"},{"start":5055.953,"end":5072.661,"text":"第八條法治局這邊報告主席各位委員好那第八條呢主要就是說這一次修正的條文要用行政院議定之還是要不要公佈日資洗那因為這個會"},{"start":5074.142,"end":5099.259,"text":"涉及到整個組織法一整套條文所以這個部分我們不太確定行政院需要多少時間所以這個部分就是看委員要不要定一個施行日期還是尊重行政院的一個組織改造的進程去做"},{"start":5110.273,"end":5128.005,"text":"因為這涉及到立法體力,所以要請法治局表達一下意見,不然內容部分倒還好其他版本長得都一樣,所以我特別要來問一下可能你那群都不一樣"},{"start":5133.394,"end":5154.295,"text":"我記得之前好像司法法治委員會這邊有做過決定要用我們三讀日期作為一個就是修正條文的那個體力那因為這個部分我們是想說因為好像這個部分不是好啦那這連第八條我都暫保留了好不好來"},{"start":5161.109,"end":5180.506,"text":"那附帶決議呢來另有委員提出附帶決議現在來處理委員針對第一案所提的附帶決議有三案請一併宣讀宣讀以後再來逐案進行處理請宣讀討論事項第一案是附帶決議附帶決議一"},{"start":5184.636,"end":5213.599,"text":"建請衛生福利部針對兒少及家庭成員之心理健康促進於六個月內邀集精神醫學心理學領域之專家學者與第一線工作人員進行現況調查分析具有資源盤點政策檢討並具體提出具體改善方案提案人陳北宇等人附帶決議二為促進重症而照顧資源之改善與整合原建請衛福部邀集"},{"start":5214.6,"end":5236.434,"text":"相關部會專家學者針對以下事項進行研議並於六個月內提出規劃報告一盤點於整合各項資源包含即興醫療復健早療長期照顧寒喘息身障社會福利教育等建立以重症而為中心之照顧體系二"},{"start":5237.697,"end":5261.003,"text":"成立重症儿整合咨询中心作为单一窗口供家长洽询三 确立重症儿之名词定义并就此定义进行我国重症儿数据统计与分析四 针对居家医疗照顾整合计划演绎增订适合重症儿的收案条件服务与相关给付之可行性"},{"start":5261.94,"end":5276.038,"text":"五 針對長期照顧服務3.0嚴厲促使照顧服務更加切合重症家庭需求之做法六 參佐日本醫療照顧及家庭支援法"},{"start":5276.759,"end":5296.985,"text":"嚴厲我國相關法制改善與規劃 七針對中正兒之就學照顧 盤領過往各類案例和需求嚴厲制度性機制法規修訂或建立之方向並就中正兒義務教育後之安置與照顧提出制度性因應規劃提案人陳培宇等人附帶決議三"},{"start":5299.506,"end":5323.141,"text":"為改善第一線照顧管理專員之勞動權益原件請衛生福利部針對以下事項進行研議並於三個月內提出規劃報告一 充實人力減少每人平均負擔案量二 設置每人案量超過200案之獎勵機制三 檢討具有績效指標四 減少行政文書作業之負擔提案人陳培宇等人 宣讀完畢"},{"start":5326.372,"end":5341.116,"text":"請問機關對於附帶決議有沒有什麼意見或說明不遵照辦理沒有問題第一案我們就照案通過第二案請問機關有沒有特別意見或要說明沒有問題遵照辦理"},{"start":5353.07,"end":5364.422,"text":"那我們就照案通過那第三案請問衛福部請問機關這邊有沒有說明或什麼不同意見遵照辦理那我們就照案通過"},{"start":5384.028,"end":5402.9,"text":"我們現在附帶決議已經處理完了那我們剛剛是在第二 第五 第八我們是暫保留然後現在再回來剛才衛福部要提出修正意見那在場的委員我看意見也沒那麼多沒那麼多跟拉鋸因為每一個版本都長得不同這樣我就"},{"start":5414.14,"end":5422.098,"text":"來 先休息三分鐘啦 好不好來看看你們有沒有先溝通一下啦你們的條文就都 大家的意見都不一樣的這條文是要怎麼過"},{"start":6101.69,"end":6102.671,"text":"我們繼續開會了好 主席宣布開會了 各位委員請就座"},{"start":6138.564,"end":6155.449,"text":"那我們現在就宣告了衛生福利部組織法第二條第五條第八條這個版本剛也溝通了但是意見還是有很大的差距的那我們是不是先要保留嗎"},{"start":6171.124,"end":6178.751,"text":"還是你要繼續說所以我要問你的意見我剛講的是先暫保留要做最後的確認那我們第二條就先保留第五條也保留第八條"},{"start":6199.059,"end":6202.342,"text":"第八條也是保留本案逐條都已處理完畢來做以下的宣告本案審查完略拟據審查報告提請院會來公決本案是不是要交由黨團協商"},{"start":6223.659,"end":6243.933,"text":"要本案就交由黨團來協商那院會討論時就由莊召委員瑞雄來出席做說明附帶決議三項一併提報院會處理那條次跟引述條文部分文字跟法制用字授權主席跟議事人員來整理"},{"start":6246.311,"end":6268.079,"text":"那現在我們來進行討論事項第二案 病案審查行政院函請審議衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持組織法的草案等14案那請問在場委員是不是要進行大體討論或直接來逐條那就直接來進入逐條那我們先宣讀好不好"},{"start":6275.36,"end":6298.548,"text":"繼續宣讀修正動議部分討論事項第二案修正動議三第三條修正為本署自署長一人職務列檢任第十三職等副署長兩人職務列檢任第十二職等提案人翁曉琳等人討論事項第三案修正動議四"},{"start":6300.1,"end":6310.407,"text":"第三條修正為本署自署長一人職務列檢任第十三職等副署長兩人職務列檢任第十二職等提案人翁曉琳等人 選讀完畢"},{"start":6317.921,"end":6330.846,"text":"那是不是現在我們請因為行政那個衛福部他也有提出修正這一條就差距就比較小了啦那其他的提案委員要不要做說明這條感不覺得矮這條一個一個來好了 一個一個來這樣不然我們就為"},{"start":6354.793,"end":6365.798,"text":"那我們現在繼續進行逐條本案系制定案一共要處理名稱六條名稱的部分是不是各位委員的提案名稱都相同是不是我們就按照行政院的提案通過"},{"start":6382.95,"end":6411.439,"text":"那第一條各提案的條文內容其實都相同那我們是不是也行政院 行政院加來 衛福部你們現在有微調其實才兩個字而已 說明一下好 跟主席跟各位委員報告因為原本的行政院的條文還有多數委員的條文裡面那麼都是寫辦理兒童 頓好 少年 健康"},{"start":6412.519,"end":6441.31,"text":"頓耗福利與權益及家庭支持之業務因為這個在讀起來不是因為頓來頓去還有後面又有及所以我們建議是說以下遇到兒童頓耗少年的時候都採用我們的正式法規名稱就是這個兒童及少年權益這個保障法的這個正式名稱都稱為兒童及少年"},{"start":6441.63,"end":6465.725,"text":"所以以下是不是兒童頓耗少年的部分呢都一併以兒童及少年那麼來他就是連在一起的然後再談他的健康福利與權益所以以下都是兒童及少年健康福利與權益那另外一個是家庭支持所以以上就文字的修正再請委員支持"},{"start":6466.892,"end":6478.11,"text":"好 謝謝 那這個條文內容其實一樣啦那只是小小的兩個字這樣的一個寫正我們是不是就按照衛福部來 王玉明委員"},{"start":6480.034,"end":6504.279,"text":"這個條文衛福部應該說明一下其實跟各位的版本是有不一樣的地方我先講我自己的部分我自己的部分我包括有增加的這個兒童少年保護安置照顧政策自立支持服務之規劃然後我在這個第四款的部分有包含生育"},{"start":6504.679,"end":6506.32,"text":"第一條我們按照行政院的提案通過修正通過"},{"start":6520.996,"end":6525.118,"text":"那現在第二條就有不一樣了那現在是不是請來先請張雅玲委員來做"},{"start":6542.657,"end":6567.89,"text":"好那我的部分呢基本上因為我想這個版本跟那個衛福部比較差異比較大就是說我在第二款的部分呢我甄列了這個性剝削防治性侵害防治這個地方是因為這個部分我覺得是可以來討論我沒有堅持因為最主要是因為這個地方是兒家屬所以是在考量說是不是要把它都併在這個地方一起來處理那第五項的部分呢"},{"start":6570.174,"end":6576.727,"text":"第七第七的部分我甄列了一個叫做兒童少年休憩遊戲及休閒發展政策之規劃推動與執行"},{"start":6579.266,"end":6604.105,"text":"就是說我們過去其實在這個兒少遊戲的部分啊 休憩的部分其實相對來說是比較缺乏的所以我希望在現在這個兒家屬的執掌裡面呢可以把這件事情納入因為過去在社家屬它其實是一個比較沒有被重視可是因為在去年的 前年的這個聯合國其實也把這個地方特別的去強化了那希望我們在法案的部分也可以來去強化這個部分"},{"start":6604.585,"end":6628.243,"text":"那在第十二的部分呢是兒童少年偏差行為輔導去規劃整合統籌及跨機關的政策協調那最主要是我們現在的少事法就是說它可能是感化教育判了三年之後那三年之後呢它可能就會回到這個設政的領域那只是說因為團體的擔心是說我們現在如果沒有把它寫進去的話未來的執行上面怕會忽略掉這個部分"},{"start":6628.703,"end":6652.824,"text":"那在第13個部分呢最主要是因為這個我們是強化了兒少之隱私權保護個人資料保護網路安全及數位環境風險防治及相關政策之規劃整合與推動那最主要是說因為現在兒少常常遇到的問題呢不管他們的社交的環境呢其實都發生在網路他們大量的使用網路可是我們現在卻並沒有把這件事情放進去"},{"start":6654.205,"end":6670.234,"text":"那其實是有點忽略了現實的狀態所以那再加上這個部分呢其實也非常仰賴這個橫跨各部會的一個協調所以希望在這個第13條關於兒少女士權網路安全的部分呢也要把它納入在現在的這個執掌裡面謝謝好 那個林慧琴委員就修正動議了來 前林委員再來王玉敏委員"},{"start":6679.63,"end":6695.439,"text":"我這邊修正動議這邊大家提醒因為第一個首先我覺得兒家屬的一個組織長理事項我可以看到業務單位都有就相關的政策規劃推動跟執行都有名列很好可是"},{"start":6696.679,"end":6715.448,"text":"實際執行的第一線社工常常跟我說針對兒少族群我們雖然都有很多服務方案可以介入可是通常都會受制於家長不願意配合也就是在實務上經常可以看到當父母或主要照顧者或法定代理人沒有辦法進到教養職責的時候兒少就出了狀況但第一線的服務卻"},{"start":6716.748,"end":6731.116,"text":"往往很難以深入或具體處理所以原因之一就是我們自己在第一線介入的時候欠缺執行的一個正當性也就是你對政策方案執行的事前的完整評估跟調查事實上是沒有的"},{"start":6731.596,"end":6753.522,"text":"所以因此我建議在所有法條當中不管事實上是第一款、第二款、第三款甚至第四款我們都認為應該要加評估兩個字也就是完善的評估調查絕對才能讓第一線服務的供給帶來幫助也更能符合兒少跟家庭的實際需求"},{"start":6754.242,"end":6782.861,"text":"那第二款呢我事實上是增加了一個智力支持因為你從前面保護到安置到智力支持才是完整性的那目前這個你就只寫到安置的話就漏掉一塊因為整個兒少服務的一個核心精神本來就是涵蓋成年後的銜接的配套以及機構處於後的智力支持也就是說除了保護跟福利服務跟權益保障以外我們也應該同步強化兒少作為"},{"start":6783.641,"end":6805.532,"text":"全力主體的致力支持的協助所以我建議在第二款加入這些文字那第三款我建議就是要刪除兒童頓耗及少年為什麼因為這邊我想問業務單位的是推服務政策推服務支援政策適用的對象應該是兒童和少年是不同的"},{"start":6806.252,"end":6822.844,"text":"那主要事實上是針對0到6歲的幼兒當你兒童要放進去勉強可是少年根本跟托育服務的關聯性比較低一點所以是不是可以不要勉強一定每一項每一款都要加上兒童頓豪少年或兒童級少年所以我認為"},{"start":6823.744,"end":6847.84,"text":"這一個應該是要把它拿掉就直接家庭托育服務就好不用前面再加兒童及少年所以等下也請業務單位說明一下為什麼要加這幾個字那第五款呢我覺得要增訂兒權公約的督導及影響評估過去兒權公約真的事實上是在我不知道在中規還是兒少組在做可是我覺得應該要單獨有"},{"start":6849.981,"end":6873.496,"text":"能力去做推動所以今天適逢CRC的第三次國家報告審查的話我肯認這是主改那衛福部當然有具體明確的把兒權公約的推動協調聯繫工作都納入法條可是我這邊還是要建議要增新增督導及影響評估因為我們很多東西基本上都沒有在做影響評估像上次在講人工生殖法的時候我們也很希望知道那影響評估是什麼"},{"start":6874.716,"end":6898.704,"text":"兒權的影響評估是什麼所以要新增督導影響評估這文字一方面依據公約跟一般性意見書的建議政府有義務辦理兒權公約的影響評估另外一方面其實社家署一直都有把包含督導及影響評估納入到禮辦理可是沒有理由不放進去在文字裡頭讓他更清楚放進去大家就更能彰顯政府的決心跟立場所以我認為這並不會造成額外的"},{"start":6901.326,"end":6927.688,"text":"那第六款呢 我這邊要增訂事故傷害防治頓耗跟身心健康為什麼要增加自殺跟事故傷害一直以來都是兒少死亡的主因的第一位 第二位那依照現行的組織業務分工狀況的話相關的健康促進跟防治跟數據監測的業務分散在新建師跟國民健康署跟健保署來做主責"},{"start":6928.428,"end":6948.293,"text":"所以我建議在這邊還是要明文列出來尤其是事故傷害一直以來他是造成孩子死亡原因第一高位為什麼一直上常常是被忽略所以我認為在文字上寫清楚會是比較好那再來就是上禮拜大我也在質詢的時候部長也提到事故傷害防治的業務"},{"start":6949.153,"end":6971.017,"text":"有要移到新社的兒家屬所以我就文字上列也沒有什麼太大問題當然沒有錯前幾天我也問過新建師看起來目前兒少身心健康促進的業務都已播過來了所以我也建議在這邊加上身心兩字那再來就是增訂第七款將兒少發展權跟公共事務參與權這些相關的政策跟"},{"start":6971.477,"end":6984.521,"text":"法規嚴定明文入法為什麼要講發展本來我們就過去一直很忽略的如果從兒童福利角度上來看你是產補式的還是發展式的所以我覺得我們已經產補式的應該更漸往前瞻性發展的話應該把發展這兩個字放進去"},{"start":6993.064,"end":7013.187,"text":"而且今年就要提出第三次的国家报告所以我认为在儿少发展参与表役的机制上我们还是落后太多尤其是你看去年在台中市儿少代表集体遭台中市政府取消资格的争议所以表示我们缺乏明确的制度化的设计让一些地方政府可以找漏洞钻"},{"start":7013.627,"end":7033.914,"text":"直接干涉兒少參與所以我建議要把新社專責機關的話業務內容當然不可以把這部分漏掉而且這也是民間團體的共識也符合兒少的最佳利益的宗旨那原本的第八款跟第十款呢我是合併都講的是同樣一個是機構而且加上你的家庭"},{"start":7034.674,"end":7051.537,"text":"支持的服務事項和兒少福利機構那我真的就要問喔有一直以來我一直很好奇的是現在地方普設的親子館在法律定位上他到底是不是兒少福利機構還是你的兒少福利機構支持藻寮跟我們的"},{"start":7053.015,"end":7077.662,"text":"安置機構可是那這一部分到底有誰在管理甚至設置標準是什麼所以等下請業務單位說明因為我這樣合併的話表示家庭支持的一些單位也都進來如果親子館是屬於家庭支持的一個單位的話那當然就比較可以確認那修正動議我的加上第十款增訂我覺得跨機關的協調跟整合這次主改大家都很熱見"},{"start":7078.642,"end":7103.503,"text":"政府願意看見兒少政策推動的困境然後來成立專責機構來組織可是民間單位同樣的關心因為本來希望成為部可是現在變成是署的話那整個跨機關的協調整合的問題會不會在這次獲得改善那倒不如在文字裡邊就把它列進去最後就是我徵訂第十一款也就是隱私權的保障跟網路安全跟風險"},{"start":7105.444,"end":7128.98,"text":"防治政策跟法規的研定因為這幾年數位環境的安全跟隱私保障的這些層面兒少族群事實上是首當其衝的一個對象所以很多研究也指出造成兒少身心傷害的很大的問題是來自網路使用所以我們認為網路使用這一塊應該要放在這邊然後不僅過去事實上欠缺主管機關"},{"start":7129.921,"end":7146.869,"text":"相關的法治政策也始終缺席所以我覺得讓兒少暴露在高風險的環境當中所以我認為應該把數位網路使用的安全跟隱私保障權益包含身心健康的在內的自殺議題都未來納入在我們的兒家屬的一個業務範疇之中以上 謝謝"},{"start":7152.035,"end":7177.928,"text":"口袋都很好來 接下來王玉明委員發言以後吳思堯委員 再來陳培宇委員很快啦 因為喔你們這條文今天都沒有共識啦這個都沒有共識啦我盡量讓大家發表因為今天聯席啊我也知道衛緩那個地方你們自己也有質詢啦所以都不用擔心 好不好我在主持 你們不用擔心但是大家 把你們撩到會瓦嘛像剛剛你衛福部說要秀那個那個就不放了"},{"start":7178.488,"end":7191.602,"text":"我們審法案的那種要件啊你秀出來沒有用啊你們也沒有案啊就你有案他有共識也要委員提出版本他有辦法審啊來 王一鳴委員好 謝謝莊委這個我也覺得第二條的部分應該是要予以保留到目前為止政院的版本跟委員提出來的版本有蠻多有差異的地方"},{"start":7201.392,"end":7221.353,"text":"那這個委員各自有不同的角度我覺得因為這次兒家屬的一個成立民間團體都抱有非常大的一個期望就希望它功能是要完整的覆蓋是要完整的所以我這邊的版本跟這個行政院還是有很大的差異那我剛剛前面已經有講過第二款要增加"},{"start":7222.174,"end":7236.299,"text":"自立支持服務的規劃第四款的部分因為部長曾經說從胚胎開始我們就要開始照顧所以第四款的部分我增加的是有生育孕產婦照護政策的規劃這個應該"},{"start":7238.86,"end":7260.078,"text":"既然是儿家属应该要把健康的部分还有孕产妇这个是前端这个也是部长讲的从胚胎就开始照护应该要把它整合进来所以在第四款的部分增加生育跟孕产妇照护的部分在第七款的部分增加了有关于儿童少女医疗的部分"},{"start":7261.059,"end":7289.208,"text":"死亡回顾事故伤害预防政策推动及执行那这一块也是我们现在说要降低我们的这一个死亡率那孩子的健康其实跟医疗的部分也是息息相关那所以应该要把医疗的部分也放进来死亡回顾事故伤害预防这一个这个如何降低我们的死亡率我想这个也是重中之重但是在正院的版本里面文字都没有提到"},{"start":7289.668,"end":7318.788,"text":"我希望第七款的部分呢这个部分应该要增加第八款的部分呢就是针对处罚跟曝险的儿童还有少年处育服务政策的规划推动及执行这个部分是现在其实卫福部做的很弱的一环就是也被往往被忽略的一环那所以这一块呢我认为既然要主改重新调整那这一块呢也应该予以相对应的这个重视"},{"start":7319.808,"end":7340.58,"text":"那最後是第九款的部分呢我增加對於福利機構業務的監督輔導及考核這些相關單位這個可能也是我們衛福部這邊未來兒家屬應該要擔負起來的所以包括前面我們在審衛福部組織法的時候我有一個附帶決議是關於這個整個兒家屬的出入規程的規劃各單位職長的分工"},{"start":7346.883,"end":7368.095,"text":"那這個其實是連動的當我們這邊在講兒家屬的職長其實也呼應了未來他的各單位的這個編制跟職長所以我認為有關於這一條我希望是保留就是衛福部應該要廣聽更多的意見跟聲音把你的功能建構得更完整以上謝謝"},{"start":7368.715,"end":7389.125,"text":"好 謝謝王一鳴委員 王一鳴委員 你的條文跟人家寫的不一樣林烈群委員也跟人家長得不一樣 還有張雅玲你看還有 你看陳培宇委員 我看你們那個條文剛才仔細的看 他這也不一樣 但大家都有增加啦那劉建國委員 他又增加了一個兒少遭受霸凌 歧視其他親愛跟身經發展的預防防治這除了你們的條文 有了八門啦"},{"start":7394.187,"end":7418.596,"text":"很充實啦但是就是沒溝通啦來接下來吳思瑤委員謝謝主席第一次發言因為能夠有這個機會來成立這個關心兒少的一個新的組織這個署大家當然都很關切非常佩服很多關心的委員提出非常多面向也都向衛福部未來成立的這個新的署許了很多願"},{"start":7419.976,"end":7430.641,"text":"我是從法制作業的角度來看大家可以去看看衛生福利部的組織法衛福部這個大部的組織法就是12項"},{"start":7432.202,"end":7460.043,"text":"他盡可能把方方面面把他精煉在該來勢的內容裡頭去處理他那因為剛剛委員提的確實在兒少萬事他的身體健康心理健康他的權益他的托育他的各項支持系統都非常的繁複可是當你要在一個條文裡頭包山包海的怎麼寫就會掛一漏萬"},{"start":7461.365,"end":7486.666,"text":"但是委員們所提出來的很多面向確實是原本你們比較輕忽的譬如說兒少的隱私數位環境這些新興社會裡頭新興的議題是應當含括進來的所以這個條文越加越多那每一項都很重要但我是建議衛福部要花一點時間把委員們所提的建議"},{"start":7487.947,"end":7512.538,"text":"因为这个不要组织肥大到写太多就等于都没写你知道吗而且其实儿少很多东西你会跟内政部相关你会跟警政相关你会跟教育部相关你会跟NCC抒发部都相关我有时候会担心我反而刚看委员加进来的东西我会担心当在卫福部的儿家属里头写的越细的时候"},{"start":7513.798,"end":7537.774,"text":"就会让其他部门他本来也承担了相关的责任他最后都会说这是卫福部的事情因为里面是在你们家可是卫福部的专业在卫生医疗在权益事项的保障卫福部没有办法去做到太多的譬如说数位治理的工作或者是儿少犯罪的侦防的工作"},{"start":7538.757,"end":7564.817,"text":"所以说我是真的我的观点是说有些事情不要落在母法里头你可以在你的条文说明栏里头去补强它那也真的大家要充分的考量到我是提供一个不同面向的考虑如果都写得太巨细靡遗我真的担心其他部会负有相关的政策责任的他反而都撇给卫福部"},{"start":7565.683,"end":7580.545,"text":"所以请卫福部在第二条这个保留是必须的可是在思考的部分包山包海巨系迷移的写法可能会不会有其他执行面跟部会协调的汉格"},{"start":7581.892,"end":7600.843,"text":"那當然有一個比較好的方式剛剛月琴委員有提她在其中的一項第十項第十款增加了一個相關工作的跨部會協調也許這樣子的一個機制就是一個處理的方式所以我要關鍵給大家參考不然你太多包山包海到最後"},{"start":7603.043,"end":7615.798,"text":"就反而是執行上的困擾真的要想想其他部會以後全部都一股腦兒推到兒家屬因為入法這兒家屬的事情這個提供不同面向的思考給大家"},{"start":7620.529,"end":7644.94,"text":"還有人要說嗎 意見差太多了劉建國委員 趙委員你剛的我特別把你的條文把你唸出來了所以就不用再講了這條要補理由了陳培委員要再說嗎好 我就贊成主席保留因為我也擔心跨部會的討論如果其實還沒有完成包山包海真的蠻可怕雖然大家都有各自關心跟擔心的議題我也贊成保留主席的提議這樣"},{"start":7646.777,"end":7649.862,"text":"好啦 這樣第二條我們就先保留"},{"start":7653.462,"end":7679.004,"text":"那第三條第三條我看行政院還有林業勤委員 羅廷維委員 陳柏宇委員 郭益勤委員王玉銘委員 李崑禎委員 王正旭委員 張雅玲委員 王鴻慧委員徐曉欣委員 李燕秀委員 廖偉祥委員 劉建國委員還有黃國昌委員 還有翁曉琳委員 我都做這兩三個幾案"},{"start":7680.385,"end":7685.987,"text":"我們這樣子好了啦 這個提案的條文 其實內容這個第三條都一樣啦你修正綜藝這樣沒有嗎 來 拍出來是不是請翁曉琳委員來做提案的說明"},{"start":7705.851,"end":7710.032,"text":"好 我這邊簡單說本席在這裡提出第三條的修正動議主要的考量是認為說其實兒少署的署長應該還是才以常任文官為主會比較好那麼畢竟在我們現在行政院所屬的三級機關裡面大多數的署級的機關首長都是以常務職為主"},{"start":7730.757,"end":7758.257,"text":"那麼只有少數的署長可能是以政務人員禁用或者是政務及常務職的這種雙軌制所以因為在現在衛福部底下它本身也有很優秀的社福方面的事務官所以我在這邊跟民眾黨的提案基本上它的內容是"},{"start":7759.218,"end":7774.323,"text":"一致的就是建議本署的署長是直接職務列檢認13職等也就是不是採取比照檢認13職等那未來這個署長就是以事務官為主這以上的報告"},{"start":7775.376,"end":7781.902,"text":"好 謝謝翁曉琳委員的說明你們這些都不夠氣魄了那我會印領印領後代表大家都有機會拚這款其實讓各有不同的面向你們怕說人家又落人過了其實政務跟常務其實都會有它的道理來 接下來程昭之委員"},{"start":7799.309,"end":7828.436,"text":"工小林委員也提出來跟我們民眾黨的黨團提出的一樣的見解我們主張不是比照就是接讓這個署長他就是職務就是檢任第三職等就是我們還是主張雖然剛剛主席分析各有好處但是我們覺得從文官系統事務官來擔任這個職位是更理想的更有機會保持一個中立專業的這樣子一個角色而不是隨便譬如我也不會不能叫我去當"},{"start":7829.016,"end":7829.596,"text":"這條機關有沒有特別要做說明"},{"start":7851.311,"end":7852.772,"text":"主席跟各位委員當然我們是希望是能夠擴大那個"},{"start":7868.462,"end":7883.719,"text":"取材因為這個業務跨足了社會福利跟健康醫療所以我們是希望讓它多一點點彈性比照健保署的"},{"start":7885.581,"end":7908.042,"text":"組織法讓這個署長這邊是可以用比照檢認13指等來取材那麼增加用人的彈性所以我們是建議是否可以委員支持按照行政院的提案來通過機關說明很有道理但是修正東西出來就是沒公式保留"},{"start":7914.271,"end":7942.145,"text":"來第四條第四條各提案的條文內容其實長得一模一樣那我們是不是就按照行政院的提案通過好那第五條第五條各提案的條文也都內容均相同第五條我們就按照行政院的提案通過"},{"start":7944.025,"end":7970.607,"text":"第六條第六條就除了委員羅廷偉 廖偉祥等提案以外其餘的各提案內容都相同那羅委員也在場那是不是有不同的看法還是要按照行政院的版本 請說明好 謝謝召委尊重院版的那就以院版為主"},{"start":7974.927,"end":7979.511,"text":"那我們第六條就按照行政院的提案通過那我們現在處理附帶決議應有委員提出的附帶決議現在處理針對第二案所提附帶決議一共八案請一併宣讀宣讀以後再來主案進行處理請宣讀"},{"start":8005.686,"end":8032.075,"text":"宣讀討論事項第二案附帶決議共發案附帶決議一請衛福部於本法修正通過後調整保護安置主業務內容將住宿室照顧修正為自力支持服務並新增社區生活相關業務以完整涵蓋兒少自力發展與回歸社會之服務需求提案人林月琴等人附帶決議二"},{"start":8033.53,"end":8051.497,"text":"警衛服部於本法第二條通過後與相關業務分工及處務規程之規劃應明確將托育服務獨立涉足以應應未來實務之需求實務之所需提案人林月琴等人"},{"start":8053.049,"end":8075.595,"text":"附帶決議三請衛福部於本法第二條通過後參考醫事司及教育部國教署現行做法針對相關人力資源之運用違法事件之調查及管理以及托育服務之績效及品質監測提出具體明確之規劃以因應未來實務之所需提案者林月琴等人"},{"start":8077.875,"end":8105.428,"text":"附帶決議四請衛福部於本法通過後針對保護安置組織距離規劃應建立積極制跨體系協調與政策回應機制與保護安置自力支持及社區生活各階段中確保兒少權益得以實施落實並提出具體執行措施以回應實務現場與兒少發展之實際需求提案人您願請等人"},{"start":8107.711,"end":8135.65,"text":"附帶決議五為健全兒少及家庭支持署完善政策品質建請衛福部與衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持署組織法草案三讀通過後訂定兒少及家庭支持署初步規程應參照下表所列之內部單位分工與職長建立副表部分請參閱書面資料提案人王玉敏等人"},{"start":8138.254,"end":8162.719,"text":"附帶決議六 為確保衛福部衛生福利部兒童及少年與家庭支持組未來成立後各項行政業務得以穩定推動並有效運作與研擬組織法組織規程及初步規程時機關內部組織分工制規劃應以下列原則為基準辦理一 機關內部至少應設置六個業務組"},{"start":8164.656,"end":8194.088,"text":"二為了源而編制能實質支撐各項兒童及少年政策與業務之推動三該各組織可別設置原則上每組不得少於四科以確保人力配置充足以避免業務過度集中影響政策執行品質與專業深度提案人陳培宇張雅玲等人不在決議期"},{"start":8195.488,"end":8204.917,"text":"為確保未來衛福部耳哨及家庭支持署成立後之行政效能與政策推動品質請主管機關嚴尼該組織處域規程時應納入下列標準一原額規模應參照國建署指標"},{"start":8214.33,"end":8227.797,"text":"編制標準 二 應明確設置資訊專業源額三 應設置研究與政策專業源額四 請行政於三個月內向立法院報告執行情形"},{"start":8229.929,"end":8247.306,"text":"行政院應與兒家屬人力規劃完成後三個月內向立法院提報原額配置職長分工專業人力比率及後續發展規劃一例國衛監督提案人陳培宇張雅玲等人布袋決議八"},{"start":8250.869,"end":8271.582,"text":"請心理健康司於本法通過後兩個月內針對如何充實兒少身心健康促進及自傷自殺自傷防治政策之專業人力及如何精進相關政策之執行與推動提出書面報告說明提案人林月琴等人宣讀完畢"},{"start":8275.99,"end":8281.678,"text":"我們附帶決議 訛紹第二條討論這項的第一案 請問提案委員有沒有補充說明針對附帶決議第一案 請問機關有其他意見"},{"start":8294.305,"end":8316.251,"text":"有關林玉琴委員的附帶決議第一案我們建議文字稍微做一點點簡單的調整就是附帶決議的第三行開始就是將住宿室照顧那個將字我們拿掉就是住宿室照顧應包括修正為把它改成應包括"},{"start":8317.296,"end":8343.386,"text":"自立支持服務及社區生活相關服務以下統就是我們讓住宿室照顧將來業務的範圍可以橫跨到整個過程跟流程然後但是不會取代掉原來住宿室裡面住宿的生活的一些服務我們把文字做一些調整 以上文字這個就要修正擬一下那委員再重新再簽好不好"},{"start":8346.521,"end":8369.16,"text":"那兒少第二案我們現在往下啦你那個先簽書我們再來請送到主席台兒少第二案討論事項第二案附帶決議第二案請問提案委員沒有其他補充說明那機關有沒有其他意見或說明第二案"},{"start":8377.169,"end":8398.947,"text":"報告委員第二案我們遵照辦理好那我們第二案就專案通過那兒少第二條討論事項第二案附帶決議三請問提案委員有沒有其他補充說明機關有沒有補充意見遵照辦理"},{"start":8399.471,"end":8416.727,"text":"好 那我們第三案我們就 第二案 第三案第三案我們就照案通過那鵝哨第二條討論事項第二案附帶決議是請問提案委員有沒有補充說明沒有了 機關有沒有其他意見或說明"},{"start":8419.018,"end":8431.857,"text":"好 那附帶決議第四案就照案通過討論事項第二案附帶決議第五案請問提案委員有沒有補充說明沒有的話請機關有沒有補充意見"},{"start":8435.956,"end":8461.862,"text":"跟主席跟各位委員說明因為以下有好幾案委員都有不同的建議就是未來這個兒少署裡面的組要如何的編制每一個組裡面要擔負什麼樣的業務我想底下好幾位委員的附帶決議內容也都不盡相同所以是不是都我們納為我們一起參考"},{"start":8462.922,"end":8484.939,"text":"因為未來我們會在這個初步歸程的時候那麼再去一併的參酌以上說明我想這個是因為很多團體也很關心就怕你們有一些業務沒有納進來那我也贊成就是說如果大家有一些不一樣的看法的話但是"},{"start":8485.795,"end":8507.195,"text":"委員提出來的這個像我提出來的第五就希望你們可以去參照好不好你們就參照然後一併去嚴密規劃組別的部分大家幾個幾位委員大概都是六組啦所以我們會朝向這個以六組可是這組的業務內容是什麼因為每個委員不盡一致我們在一併那個納入"},{"start":8509.977,"end":8529.788,"text":"可以 因為這個就是我剛剛講的這個分工的規劃跟我們剛剛審的第二條其實是息息相關就是他的執掌跟這邊的分工所以這就一併後面大家協商再來討論處理好那附帶決議第五案我們就保留討論事項第二案附帶決議六"},{"start":8532.659,"end":8547.086,"text":"提案委員有沒有補充說明那機關有沒有什麼意見我們的意見跟剛剛一樣因為也是跟第五案的意見因為他也是分了六組但是那組的名稱也不一樣來 那討論事項第二案附帶決議七提案委員有沒有補充說明"},{"start":8560.916,"end":8587.757,"text":"提案委員沒有補充 機關有看到沒有新的 你們有沒有補充說明也是一樣 這個是在初屋歸塵的時候去討論的也是那個分組的業務內容好啦 這樣保留討論事項第二案附帶決議7提案委員有沒有補充說明沒有 機關有沒有補充意見"},{"start":8591.043,"end":8607.194,"text":"第七頁保留討論事項第二任附帶決議八提案委員有沒有補充說明沒有的話請機關表達意見遵照辦理討論事項第二任附帶決議八我們就照案通過"},{"start":8622.721,"end":8649.148,"text":"來 第一案已經回來了那兒少第二條討論事項第二案附帶決議那應該要再唸一下吧宣讀一下這個是文字修正的修正文字如下第三項修正為住宿"},{"start":8651.272,"end":8674.449,"text":"將將刪除然後住宿是照顧應包括自立知識服務及社區生活相關業務以完整涵蓋兒少自立發展與回歸社區之服務需求選舉完畢好那田委員跟機關都沒有意見我們兒少第二條討論事項第二案附帶決議依舊照修正通過"},{"start":8684.264,"end":8708.561,"text":"本案主條均已處理完畢做以下宣告本案審查完畢拟據審查報告提請院會來公決那本案是否交由黨團協商好本案須交由黨團協商院會討論的時候由莊召及委員瑞雄出席說明附帶決議六項一併提報院會來做處理那附帶決議"},{"start":8711.434,"end":8739.246,"text":"两案保留那也送院会来处理调次引述条文部分文字及法治用于三案还是两案三案还是三案三案三案抱歉喔附带决议三案保留送院会来处理那调次引述条文部分文字及法治用于用字授权主席跟议事人员来整理"},{"start":8744.81,"end":8766.255,"text":"那我們現在討論事項第三案來併案審查行政院函請審議衛生福利部長期照顧及社會發展署組織法的草案等12案請問在場委員要不要做大體討論我看不用了我們就主條那我們就直接進入主條的審查"},{"start":8775.956,"end":8786.215,"text":"名稱的部分除了林業群委員的提案以外其他提案名稱都相同林委員要看到行政院的好不好"},{"start":8787.762,"end":8810.998,"text":"來聽妳的聽妳說我剛剛前面已經有講過就是說為什麼我們後來改正因為我們社福團體已經討論過他跟身障團體討論過今天如果把按照我們衛福部的是把長照放在前面主體是長照可是今天這邊如果剛才的衛福部的組織法裡面如果有討論到婦女的話"},{"start":8811.838,"end":8830.795,"text":"那如果要放在保護那另外一個現在被保留可是如果放在這邊的話會變成這有三個族群 身障我們的高齡者跟我們的婦女那這三塊怎麼會是先長照因為長照畢竟大概都是高齡者"},{"start":8831.24,"end":8850.409,"text":"比較在使用所以團體的意見會比較希望就交換一下就是說把長照本來長照及社會發展署把它放社會發展放到前面那我覺得那之前有跟部裡邊溝通過部裡邊也是同意我覺得這個會比較好一點這是第一個第二個"},{"start":8851.129,"end":8874.983,"text":"我覺得與時俱進我們現在老福法大家都會覺得要改成高齡者權益保障法的時候我們在這邊都還是在呈現很多條文都在寫老人所以我建議是這一條裡面只要甚至後面條文只要寫到老人的話應該要考慮因為那是過去早期我們立法時的慣用語可是隨著社會結構現在65歲都還是"},{"start":8878.786,"end":8891.132,"text":"都還是身心很健康的狀態你用老人這種用詞的話我覺得一方面預設年長者都是被照顧失能或社會負擔的對象忽略高齡者在能力健康狀況社會參與跟生活樣態的高度的多元化"},{"start":8894.173,"end":8915.211,"text":"所以我覺得也跟我國積極跟聯合國的目標也不一樣聯合國也就是說要活力老化所以我們會認為說這種方向已經跟聯合國也不太符合所以我覺得為回應年齡歧視的防治所以我認為應該把這一條的條文裡面只要講到老人的都一律修正為高齡者因為第一條就已經碰到了我們希望說"},{"start":8915.871,"end":8931.5,"text":"可不可以用這個名詞然後另外一個就是我們的署的名稱把它反過來就是社會發展及長照署不是用長照及社會發展署以上 謝謝部長 我覺得有道理你一直點頭 所以就叫"},{"start":8938.516,"end":8959.255,"text":"跟委員說明就是說那個署的名稱我們讓他在社會發展在前長照在後本部表示支持啦我們上個禮拜五有跟團體有道理啦有道理啦都有共識所以我們支持把名稱做修正這樣"},{"start":8961.597,"end":8976.482,"text":"但是就是 老人的可不可以變成是高齡來 我來處理 你用講的不遵守來 版本 再寫一下 寫一下對 全民是社會發展及長期照顧屬你是第一條跟第三條 我現在在說名稱名稱 名稱 現在講名稱"},{"start":8991.101,"end":8991.921,"text":"我們是社會發展及長照署"},{"start":9018.374,"end":9026.98,"text":"是啦 你那是第一條 我在說名稱的部分你也要寫一個寫一個啦 寫一個 我們不然我再叫你的通過你有沒有搞笑啊 你我再講那個 大家都跟人家不一樣 結果大家都聽你的那當然也要先寫一個這樣我們待會 這個等一下再處理啦"},{"start":9046.414,"end":9060.498,"text":"接下來我們處理第一條 第一條除了林月琴委員 其他委員提案內容均相同林月琴妳有跟別人講嗎但是聽起來不錯來 她的修正動議 大家手上有沒有拿到第一條要宣讀一下讀過了"},{"start":9074.181,"end":9080.064,"text":"那第一條來 請林二請為人補充說明要討論這一條我剛剛講的就是兩項嘛一個是沒有沒有你那個名稱才是你最好的對所以這第一條裡邊我剛剛提到說老人全部一律改為高齡者所以第一條的那個只要提到老人還有特社社會發展及長照署"},{"start":9102.875,"end":9118.29,"text":"你那個有兩部分第一個部分名稱啦衛福部人也贊成大家也贊成你再來是第一條好不好那你那個名稱的部分寫了那第一條的部分是不是請機關表示意見"},{"start":9119.802,"end":9137.085,"text":"跟委員說明這個第一條的部分涉及到那個老人要改成高齡者但是因為這涉及到我們還有其他的法規是老人福利法那個很多地方也都是所以現在我們查起來只有在那個"},{"start":9138.706,"end":9156.91,"text":"勞動部的中高齡及高齡就業促進法有用到高齡者這個名稱其他的法規都還是用老人所以這個影響層面會蠻大的是不是還是維持原本的用字還是以老人這個如果補聽 我覺得你們有比較保守"},{"start":9164.062,"end":9169.364,"text":"你像譬如說,你看人家有什麼身心障礙,什麼卡對不對?那欠人家,我們覺得心情很壞,你也給他創一個名字,創得更好,要貼在他上面,健康卡,我不是說開心卡啦,就是健康卡,什麼卡,你給他創一個標籤化,"},{"start":9183.817,"end":9201.144,"text":"我覺得你都應該可以在 你的太陽是很清澈的人應該突破一下像這個 你在這個地方去你不要以為說好像會跟白鴨相伴你這個地方去做突破很多事情你搞不好你是後面你要去做一些突破修正會更好一點影響會很大嗎 哪影響不會大你的林業群委員 來 吳思耀委員我先跟你說"},{"start":9210.341,"end":9232.872,"text":"部長聽一下因為這一次是我們優先在衛福要成立一個新的署而且focus在高齡者的長期照顧所以這確實是一個機會我們藉由這個署的組織的新出發來帶動其他法規名稱的統一化"},{"start":9234.112,"end":9261.321,"text":"所以說我當然知道很多過去都用老人嘛那也如果要改你們以後就可以啟動就他剛好是一個很好的發認一個很好的開端因為就是配合高齡者的長期照顧這個新屬的成立我們在社會的溝通啦社會的倡議啦新興的思維裡面都為這個開始啦所以令醫藥來啟動其他法規的配套的修正那個之後那我是支持把老人就做這個改靈"},{"start":9263.582,"end":9276.048,"text":"改為高齡者因為沒有人喜歡被叫老人OK我是支持岳勤委員對嗎你像柏中你這個看起來我就覺得你沿途的年輕人他還會說你老人是不是"},{"start":9280.572,"end":9297.147,"text":"可以啦可以這樣就跟主席報告確實啦因為這個是組織法啦組織法不會去下名詞定義啦所以我們要在其他的作用法裡面去修不然我們會出現一個高凝者可是卻無定義什麼叫做高凝者"},{"start":9297.848,"end":9316.525,"text":"那麼剛剛提到的那個就業促進法是在勞動部的法規不是在本部的所以等於未來我們要在本部要配合其他的法規特別是勞輔法一定要去修不然的話會對不起來我們這是組織法我們不會去下名詞定義要回到作用法去修"},{"start":9317.83,"end":9336.416,"text":"如果這個趨勢是如此我們來接受委員的建議蓋了我們再去修老扶法因為那個老扶法就要改了不然我們那邊叫老人這邊變成高齡者兩邊的 對不起"},{"start":9338.806,"end":9360.403,"text":"沒關係啦,不聽話,你現在又年輕,你又沒感覺啦,又記歸了,你就知道你那個整個部會這麼多人在這個地方對這個名稱把它變成高齡者有沒有特別的看法有疑慮的提出來沒有關係不然其實搞不好其他的法規全部都是文字修正而已啦除非你有涉及到要件,那要件的定義你再講清楚就好啦"},{"start":9361.488,"end":9381.282,"text":"主席有個小問題如果是採用林月琴委員的修正動議的第一條那我要再確認一次法案的名稱到底是叫長照還是長期照顧四個字如果採用林月琴委員的修正動議你的長照一樣要變成長期照顧變成長期照顧署以後就正名叫做社會發展及長期照顧署"},{"start":9388.866,"end":9392.647,"text":"因為現在用你的修正動議裡面你都是要長照兩個字嘛好 那現在提案林月琴委員的提案修正動議名稱的部分要先宣讀討論事項第三 修正動議五將名稱改為衛生福利部社會發展及長期照顧署提案的林月琴等人 宣讀完畢"},{"start":9419.212,"end":9428.122,"text":"好 這樣修正動議在場委員沒有意見我們就召喚通過那第一條林月琴委員的提案這條修正動議簽了嗎"},{"start":9447.182,"end":9475.162,"text":"依修正動議修正後通過所以老人改高齡者所以現在跌倒就變成這樣衛生福利部為辦理長期照顧高齡高齡者身心障礙者婦女國民年金之業務特色社會發展及長期照顧署這個提案人林瑞琴"},{"start":9478.451,"end":9497.509,"text":"我們現在有一個沒解決的問題就是組織法裡面原本常發因為假設社造屬假設放婦女就人口比我們剛剛前面在討論的第二條的時候在組織法裡面那婦女要放在那邊還是要放在這邊一直沒搞定"},{"start":9498.67,"end":9522.439,"text":"因為范園委員提出來的是說要放在那邊我的版本是放在這邊那時候第二條就沒有決定那到底現在繼續走下去我們每一條都會有問題尤其是第二條第一條當然也會因為他第二條第一條就有問題了因為婦女現在這邊有個婦女如果雖然老人改成高齡者可是身心障礙者可是婦女到底要放這邊還是要放在那個保護師"},{"start":9523.936,"end":9527.661,"text":"跟保護是合併這一條是沒有解決的對啦 當然會有你丟分跟丟分這樣規定確實啊 會產生進合啊會產生進合啊"},{"start":9536.875,"end":9557.843,"text":"我不知道說接下來第二條我的版本原本是要放在用人口別放在這邊按照跟行政院的一樣可是人口別放在這邊那我的每一條裡面大家都會提到婦女可是如果放在那邊的話我們這一條根本也沒辦法討論第二條第一條沒辦法做通過第二條也沒辦法討論如果沒有解決前面的話你們都很厲害我以前就照顧夫婦的最快"},{"start":9565.781,"end":9573.51,"text":"我就是叫衛福部來附你放在這邊那第二條就可以討論第一條也可以通過可是現在就是前面我們那一條保留啦那就一定的 你組織完之後你如果保留 下面你怎麼做嘛"},{"start":9584.127,"end":9602.693,"text":"很麻煩啦 但是協商還是有它的意義啦還是有意義 畢竟這一些這個部分沒關係啦 一條一條來啦那我們討論 我們現在第一條來 討論事項第三案修正動議修正動議第二案就第一條就照林月琴委員的那個機關家 衛務部家有意見嗎"},{"start":9614.673,"end":9629.004,"text":"這個署的名稱搭配剛剛的修正我們是支持其餘因為有一個那個婦女業務上有一個婦女的業務我們是比較主張就是按照行政院版本因為跟第二條會連動就是"},{"start":9631.912,"end":9652.248,"text":"老人婦女生長者的福利福利服務還有福利資源還有權益保障社會參與那麼都是一起的所以跟我們第二條都會對起來所以我們是希望婦女能夠放在這裡不過因為還有一些委員有意見所以我們是建議這個條文還是保留陪保留"},{"start":9658.967,"end":9661.248,"text":"第一條就保留了第二條"},{"start":9688.547,"end":9695.671,"text":"第二條除了行政院還有這麼多委員還有林耀群委員有提修正動議案那是不是請這條第二條你也不理我也不理我那第二條我們就保留"},{"start":9708.427,"end":9724.037,"text":"那第三條 第三條各提案的條文內容其實都是相同那有黃國昌 翁小玲委員提修正動議修正動議一跟修正動議四陳大志委有意見"},{"start":9733.602,"end":9758.369,"text":"這第三條剛才就大家有說過你現在就是要變常任的常任的意思所以主席認為我不需要再說明因為翁委員他現在到另外一個委員會他有請我們一起幫他做說明大家意見 機關請表達意見跟委員說明因為現在這個社家署的我們現行社家署就是常任文官然後長照師也是併起來"},{"start":9760.169,"end":9780.958,"text":"應該執行上比較沒有困難啦所以如果這個我們不堅持這個讓他單列檢認十三指等也是可以啦這樣啦 很簡單啦剛才俄少數也保留 這點也保留啦 好不好我們這個處理的邏輯就一樣嘛我們剛才也保留 這點也保留 好不好 早知 OK好來 接下來第四條"},{"start":9788.103,"end":9798.951,"text":"第四條提案的條文內容均相同那我們是不是就照行政院的提案通過第五條各提案的條文內容也都一樣我們就按照行政院的版本通過"},{"start":9810.199,"end":9820.27,"text":"第六條 除了羅廷偉委員 廖偉祥委員等提案以外其餘各提案的內容均相同這不來 特別說怎麼樣"},{"start":9826.425,"end":9842.562,"text":"一樣啦 剛剛就是行政院以命令定制跟行政院定制是相同的羅委員剛剛其實也表達同意了那我們第6條也按照行政院的提案通過"},{"start":9847.148,"end":9856.655,"text":"那本案 逐條均與處理完畢 做以下宣告本案審查完畢 領據審查報告提請院會來公決本案是否交由黨團協商要嗎 要來 院會 這些都夠多了 院會討論時由莊昭偉瑞雄出席說明條次引述條文部分文字跟法制用字用語授權主席跟議事人員來做整理"},{"start":9880.459,"end":9895.626,"text":"討論事項第四案病案審查行政院函請審議衛生福利部中央健健康保險署組織法第二條條文修正草案等八案是不是要我們直接進行主條的不用再大體討論了好"},{"start":9902.813,"end":9930.511,"text":"第二條來因為我們現在繼續來主條討論這只是一個條文而已第二條其實除了委員郭玉琴等16人提案不一樣以外其餘的各提案內容其實都相同不然這樣這一條其他委員有沒有其他意見如果沒有"},{"start":9933.447,"end":9954.281,"text":"第二條我們就照行政院的那我們就按照行政院的提案通過囉跟主席報告第二條本來郭育群委員有提案那我們已經把他的提案納入我們的第八條就是現在的行政院版本那已經溝通過郭委員表示同意謝謝補充說明"},{"start":9958.56,"end":9982.754,"text":"本案逐條均已處理完畢 來做以下宣告本案審查完畢 凝聚審查報告提醒院會公決本案是否交由黨團協商來 院會討論時 由莊召集委員瑞雄主席說明條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語授權主席及議事人員整理"},{"start":9985.939,"end":10011.5,"text":"我們現在討論事項第五案 病案審查行政院函請審議國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例的草案等八案主席 主席 不好意思剛才我們有說明說因為參考了這個郭玉琴委員的提案所以我們有建議的修正條文不是行政院 是修正建議條文建議條文靠款"},{"start":10012.898,"end":10035.138,"text":"屋屋屋在旁邊那一欄多了第八款全民健康保險資料之利用與管理沒有耶 沒有耶我剛才有給你們提醒你們要做什麼你們都要文字寫下來委員簽名這樣才有尊聖你要適中 適中修正動議喔 你們會不會這樣不行不是不是不是不是不是你們那個條文"},{"start":10041.831,"end":10049.473,"text":"寫成修正動議請委員簽字您就不按 那不按要怎麼同歸您的趕快寫 好 謝謝立刻處理主席 叫他們去觀察社 好不好很冷的 很危險的"},{"start":10077.456,"end":10077.977,"text":"先休息一下"},{"start":10456.67,"end":10456.831,"text":"阿俠後備"},{"start":10575.277,"end":10578.9,"text":"條文看一下"},{"start":10675.441,"end":10676.524,"text":"你們國會主席是誰啊這樣不行喔 下次這樣不行"},{"start":10708.174,"end":10729.269,"text":"我們先請宣讀宣讀第四案修正動議第二修正動議一第二條參照行政院提案增訂第八款為全民健康保險資料之利用與管理原第九第八款以至第九款提案人林月琴等人宣讀完畢"},{"start":10736.943,"end":10752.524,"text":"更正宣告 討論事項第四案修正動議一 按照林月琴委員的修正動議通過"},{"start":10759.927,"end":10789.037,"text":"本案主條經已處理完畢 作以下宣告本案審查完畢 擬拒審查報告提請院會公決本案是否交由黨團協商要啦 那不要本案須交由黨團協商院會討論時由莊昭及委員瑞雄出席說明條次引述條文部分文字及法制用語用字授權主席跟議事人員整理"},{"start":10798.14,"end":10812.744,"text":"討論事項第五案 病案審查行政院函請國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例草案等八案那請問在場委員是不是要進行大力討論不用啦那我們就直接進入主條討論那"},{"start":10820.543,"end":10840.87,"text":"我們繼續來主條討論本案是制定案一共要處理名稱5個章名跟35個條文名稱的部分各提案的名稱均相同我們就按照行政院的提案通過"},{"start":10842.881,"end":10868.017,"text":"第一張張明那各位提案委員張明其實都相同我們就按照行第一張張明就按照行政院的提案通過那第一條各提案委員的條文內容均相同委員程昭之等三人所提修正動議請問來程昭之委員"},{"start":10872.725,"end":10899.29,"text":"主席 你要給我時間 我都沒講完沒開到你的時間那個第一條 我們討論第一條第一條第一條醫療科技評估的結果會影響哪些藥 哪些醫療服務或哪些新興科技可以被納入健保給付這個是非常大的事情也會影響健保資源怎麼來分配對病人權益 醫療體系跟公共財政都有重大影響所以它必須是個有制度有標準能夠被社會檢視的決策基礎所以"},{"start":10902.131,"end":10929.358,"text":"在第一項部分等一下我再來就是讓大家了解第二項我特別要提到就是說可克折是治理跟監督機制目的在於回應這個社會對醫療科技評估制度的信任問題醫療科技不僅只是技術問題還涉及一個價值的選擇跟公共利益所以本中心在運作上除了醫學醫療科技方法學還有一個一定的方法學跟實證資料也必須將社會倫理跟公共價值納入考量並透過明確"},{"start":10930.478,"end":10953.716,"text":"的治理架構跟監督機制使這個過程跟結果能夠被檢視被說明被追究責任那過去也有研究指出行政法案這類比較公私混合的組織是不是能夠成為政府改造正確良好的政策工具它的關鍵處是在於是否能夠確實調和公共的課則跟私部門的效率所以我們這裡就是要求該中心在評估方法程序的設計跟意見形成過程當中必須透明"},{"start":10957.139,"end":10977.63,"text":"有依據並能對社會清楚說明其專業判斷的理由建立一個有專業又值得信任醫療科技評估我們醫療科技評估在2007年開始運用在健保的形容2019年以後才正式立了這個法所以第一條我們的修正案就是說也希望大家能夠支持我們把它寫得更明確更精確為了促進全民健康與福祉我們下來都不是空話"},{"start":10981.792,"end":11009.319,"text":"針對衛生醫療相關政策運用醫療科技評估方法作為合理的醫療資源配置及健康政策決策的依據所以才特設國家醫療科技評估中心制定本條例還有第二個我們的修正中心很重點是本中心應該結合醫療科技評估方法學實證基礎及社會倫理價值並建立可克責性之治理跟監督機制以上請各位同事參考 請主席參考 謝謝"},{"start":11013.251,"end":11034.227,"text":"你部長可以嗎?我很認真給你看你第一條有比較多形容詞其實跟第一條行政院提案其他各委員也差不多但是部長看機關這邊可能也針對陳委員這個部分來看議案裡面的意見他不會這樣加形容詞加不完"},{"start":11041.616,"end":11048.318,"text":"如果部長接受就過去了因為如果其實我們是把邏輯上跟這個道理上第一條這個也不是這個也不是周知委員這也不是邏輯的問題行政院的是說促進國家醫療資源的有效運用"},{"start":11067.8,"end":11093.334,"text":"跟推動醫療科技的評估你是說要促進全民健康跟福祉國家醫療資源有效運用我們要運用醫療科技的方法作為合理醫療因為這個要徹底資源配置什麼東西要納入健保什麼東西不需要納入健保現在就要仰賴這個科技這個是對於每一個人都是非常重要的一個期待而且檢視"},{"start":11095.501,"end":11111.102,"text":"醫療科技評估跟醫療科技評估方法有什麼不同給我修正動議好嗎我沒有那個吳思瑤我也沒有拿到修正動議他們沒有修正動議部長你還沒看完沒有"},{"start":11114.493,"end":11135.688,"text":"主席跟各位說明因為行政院版本明確的是提到這個中心的設立是在為了醫療資源的有效運用那推動這個醫療科技評估去落實給付跟健康政策但是這個這個陳委員的修正動議有點"},{"start":11137.489,"end":11158.276,"text":"太大了就是弄成是為了推進全民健康與福祉這看起來像衛福部然後底下最重要的是這樣因為他只是針對衛生醫療相關政策我們針對的是醫療及戶籍健康政策"},{"start":11159.216,"end":11177.158,"text":"所以沒有讓那個醫療給付我們這個中心很重要的一個是醫療給付還有健康政策那但是您的版本看到的是是針對衛生醫療相關政策對象不同"},{"start":11182.042,"end":11204.022,"text":"就比較是不是可以按照行政院的版本那至於說第二項要加上去那麼結合這個醫療科技評估的方法學實證基礎建立我覺得這個倒是可以考慮那第一項的文字是不是維持行政院的版本比較清楚"},{"start":11205.321,"end":11225.986,"text":"那第二項的文字上如果要加上去我們是不反對所以部長可以接受我們加上一個那個後面就是去結合方法學實證基礎跟社會倫理價值去建立可苛責性質治理監督機制這開宗明義把它講清楚但是後面"},{"start":11227.831,"end":11249.32,"text":"這樣啦 我聽得懂啦 我聽得懂啦就是說第一項 按照行政院的提案啦那第二項就是說 要同意按照成昭之委員的就是說本中心應結合醫療科技 加這段就對了啦 加這項但是這個我也看不懂 你那個到底是什麼?陳念捏 你不能寫一個條文 大家寫一個條文出來 大家都看不懂"},{"start":11258.128,"end":11261.92,"text":"醫療科技評估是看你要講我講醫療科技評估就是"},{"start":11265.632,"end":11293.51,"text":"有一套他的專業跟他的方法學這全世界都已經執行了非常久了那一定要按照過去我必須說過去我說2007年開始運用醫療科技評估來幫助健保署去哪些藥要給付哪些新科技要給付但是他常常受限於財務我現在剩多少錢我怎麼估就完全去配合我覺得說過去都變成健保署的小弟小妹簡單的說現在他竟然成立一個獨立的一個作業中心"},{"start":11294.63,"end":11301.036,"text":"那他就要回到專業回到專業今天因為在場沒有其他的人因為這種人很少願意來這邊立法院被潑髒水這個本中心應該結合醫療科技這個部長不會不懂所以你們都弄一個大家不懂的東西我就問你嘛你像譬如說你那個增加的我沒有特別的意見我的意思是說"},{"start":11319.432,"end":11320.573,"text":"就是他要負起責任,因為過去的評估很多不是正確的"},{"start":11337.503,"end":11364.204,"text":"不是每一個評估本來他都必須要負責任因為你這個可苛責任到底是在說行政責任還是要談什麼樣的一個責任這個就在條文裡面語意就不清楚了我們在後來的法條開始就是下面的第三條法條就會比較有清楚的我們有一條一條的那個方法學就是要不要把這個概念帶進去你覺得成立一個中心我認為 昭芝妳有沒有可能你們去提附帶決議針對這個條文的部分"},{"start":11366.646,"end":11383.251,"text":"不要拖穩補穩 你不要弄得開火我們有另外一條負債決議啦但是不是在處理這一條這開宗明義要講清楚今天我們好不容易國家這個在侯相茂署長就開始醞釀了好不容易現在2026年要成立了"},{"start":11384.404,"end":11407.424,"text":"已经就是19年后就是健保开始运用医疗科技评估因为很多东西不是就是一定要有一个评估方法为什么这个是有价值的这个是我们值得国人愿意付多少钱付得起多少钱怎么付法但那么考虑什么像喊病考虑人道考虑社会价值考虑伦理学这个是老实说这个中心的运作会影响很大影响非常大"},{"start":11408.845,"end":11433.528,"text":"好 我自己在裡面用了很久 慢慢地討論慢慢地討論 語調放輕鬆 來 吳思瑤委員主席 我是建議第一條是用行政院的提案的版本那我可以理解 招資委員希望可以更周延那我的具體的主張是這樣我覺得我們那個立法例的精神也是要比照一下"},{"start":11434.549,"end":11453.355,"text":"過去對於這些中心組織新設組織的條例大概就是第一條是講這個是什麼What對不對What是這個新的組織所以說招資委員的第二項顯然是How還有And後面要執行的And Then這樣子"},{"start":11453.993,"end":11468.922,"text":"所以我是建議說第一條還是依過去的立法例這個中心是什麼然後特制定本條例那招資委員的第二項可以在有幾個處理方式三個處理方式第一個可以在條文說明裡頭"},{"start":11469.997,"end":11494.042,"text":"第二個可以用附帶決議的方式第三個或是落在後面相關業務執掌相關的條文裡頭我是做這樣的建議否則就怪怪真的就條文是怪怪所以我是建議用行政院的版本但是教職委員用這ABC三種方式來處理這樣子的一些主張"},{"start":11497.142,"end":11523.143,"text":"好 謝謝吳委員因為你這個條文兩個長的我第一個來講啦你第一個講的第一項其實在談的是這個立法的一個目的啦那你第二個你又把它加進去這個我請教部長就是說你行政院的條文跟程昭之委員的條文程昭之委員的疑慮就是說你的條文跟沒辦法涵蓋"},{"start":11526.91,"end":11553.107,"text":"應該跟委員說明我們是建議這一條維持行政院版本至於委員所提到的那個第二項他的修正動議第二項是希望有一些這個可克責性的機制可以在後面來處理因為後面在第三條的部分也會有相關的委員提案會有涉及到這個方法學跟倫理價值實證基礎"},{"start":11556.25,"end":11580.569,"text":"納入在這個評估的過程這樣好了 莊姿這樣就我們這條就叫第一條本人就照行政院的提案來通過那你其他部分我們抵一下那個地方看你要怎麼樣來做當然本來我想說第一條有那第三條那個部分就不再強調嘛你現在說第一條不要放這個你不要放這個放第一條很殘暴小"},{"start":11588.569,"end":11606.253,"text":"醫療科技評估你懂啊王振旭懂啊他只是沒講話我們都在裡面待過第一條普通就是立法目的跟立法精神第一條就按照行政院的提案通過第三條要納入第三條我們要討論這件事來第二條"},{"start":11614.178,"end":11624.702,"text":"第二條的其實除了羅廷偉委員的提案以外其餘各提案內容均相同查這個第二項而已 羅委員查這個第二項而已那第二條我們就按照行政院的提案通過"},{"start":11636.892,"end":11651.382,"text":"好 我們現在進入到第三條第三條除了郭玉琴與委員等16人提案以外其餘各提案委員內容都相同那陳委員招之你有提一個修正動議啊王正旭委員來 王正旭講一下你要講一些一槌定音大家都點了來"},{"start":11661.559,"end":11674.577,"text":"謝謝主席謝謝趙委讓我有機會針對第三條做一些意見上的表達那剛剛趙市委員針對第一條的部分我相信第三條這邊我們還可以奢華來補強那有關你第三條"},{"start":11675.678,"end":11692.311,"text":"本中心的業務範圍如下第一款就是要發展與建立醫療科技評估方法與指引在相對的立法說明裡面第二的部分他就講到醫療科技評估可應用於藥品醫療器材手術組織"},{"start":11693.812,"end":11710.558,"text":"健康政策或健康系統等範疇我們覺得這個部分其實還可以再加強加強的地方就是新醫療技術跟新醫療服務早上這個說明裡面我們也針對所謂新醫療技術也做了一些說明"},{"start":11711.358,"end":11727.495,"text":"為什麼我們很希望能夠把新醫療技術納進來因為未來的科技它不會是單純的藥物也不會是單純的醫療器材也不是單純的手術那台北都是已經合作了那個就是變成新的醫療技術那另外"},{"start":11728.416,"end":11743.884,"text":"未來轉化成為健保處理的時候也有所謂的新的醫療服務等等所以如果我們不動相關的條文的話我們至少在立法說明裡面可以把在醫療科技評估可應用於藥品 醫療器材 手術處置"},{"start":11748.306,"end":11764.978,"text":"後面接著是新醫療技術再一個登號新醫療服務最後再連接到健康政策或健康系統的範疇就是針對立法說明的部分那我們也提了一個附帶決議到時候再麻煩大家一起來支持 謝謝陳昭志委員 來"},{"start":11774.909,"end":11793.362,"text":"第一條是討論這個業務範圍所以我覺得我寫的是比原來行政院版本清楚多了那就是說請他參考我的修正動議那第一條就是針對衛生醫療政策先有政策嘛才有開始做這些評估跟資源的分配"},{"start":11794.202,"end":11817.804,"text":"進行這個資源分配的評估促進醫療資源的最佳利用這是然後第二個就是現在包括醫療服務還有藥物還有醫療這個科技等等這個評估內容第三個剛剛你們說不宜放在第一條那我也接受就是說具有建構具有苛責性的accountability這個字其實很多用很多年在很多範圍"},{"start":11819.245,"end":11840.853,"text":"醫療科技評估的審議流程機制及方法學確保評估制度符合國際標準不兼具我國的國情因為這個是很關鍵大家可以想到一兆一年一兆的健保資源怎麼分配怎麼讓所有人都大概不滿意還可以接受的情況這個醫療科技評估是非常重要的必須是獨立專業也就是今天我們審查這個組織的組織法的重要目的"},{"start":11844.654,"end":11848.557,"text":"那我第一項是寫持續監測跟評估已採用的醫療科技它是一個持續的過程是個continuous的一個process它持續評估因為不是要做對了一開始做就會是對的是持續評估那當然人才也非常重要第五點是在講人才的部分建立人才的培訓提升相關人員的理解跟應用能力等等而且當然要跟國際接軌"},{"start":11868.371,"end":11878.838,"text":"那第六的部分就是要參與國際的醫療科技組織因為在國際上我們落後太久了其他的國家大概這樣的組織大概都已經行之有年"},{"start":11879.813,"end":11887.838,"text":"那第七點 第三點剛剛課則的部分要請部長特別能夠確認支持第七點也是很重要 訂定公共參與的機制這個幾乎現在 這個公共參與簡單的說 某個程度這個病人或民眾的參與是非常重要的現在任何攸關整個國家資源配置的一個組織"},{"start":11900.345,"end":11918.255,"text":"就是當事人或國民的參與是非常重要所以訂定公眾參與其實符合醫療科技評估社會參與的精神這個要社會參與不是一群專家學者關起門來做評估然後把結果就是丟出去過去比較是這樣的做法所以我這一條的修正動議是大概以這樣的精神來寫再請部長回應 謝謝"},{"start":11929.18,"end":11936.551,"text":"我看修正綜藝你們這個方向就有點不太一樣請內閣部長來做說明"},{"start":11942.023,"end":11955.027,"text":"第一個是有關王振旭委員剛剛所提到把醫療科技評估的範圍把它含納到新醫療技術如果按照醫療法人體試驗所謂的新"},{"start":11961.049,"end":11986.93,"text":"藥品新醫材跟新醫療技術確實是有這個新醫療技術這些比較新的東西所以在立法說明裡面去強調醫療評估的對象我們是用醫療服務因為幾乎上都稱為醫療服務那再把它說明也包含新醫療技術我們覺得是可以在立法說明裡面讓他更清楚我們的競表支持那至於陳昭志委員的修正動議是"},{"start":11988.391,"end":12009.273,"text":"比較複雜不過大致上的精神是相同那麼唯一一個比較特別的地方是陳委員特別強調可克則性的醫療科技評估的審議流程機制之方法學"},{"start":12009.994,"end":12038.493,"text":"那這個倒是可以我們可以考慮在我們的行政院版本的第三條的第一款的部分這裡講的就是那個醫療科技評估的方法跟指引那在這一個這個您的意思應該是在這一個階段就是在出這個科技評估報告它需要是有一個審議的流程機制這個報告"},{"start":12040.914,"end":12064.504,"text":"HTA要有它的方法學跟課則性所以我們可以在第一款的部分來做修正就是發展與建立具課則性的醫療科技評估方法及審議機制方法指引及審議機制這樣"},{"start":12066.992,"end":12088.514,"text":"就把您的那個第一款 發展第三條的第一款發展與建立具特責性的醫療科技評估方法指引及審議機制流程機制那個是一樣的審議機制這樣"},{"start":12093.229,"end":12119.799,"text":"謝謝部長把這個課者的概念這樣啦 這條這樣啦這個意見其實也還好啊 他同意可能你個別委員很抱歉 我認過 我知道你就聽我說 我就敘述現狀其他的委員其實跟行政院版本一樣就招致委員你有一些不同的意見那是不是我們這一條先暫保留部長都同意啦"},{"start":12120.839,"end":12147.965,"text":"他沒有全部都同意啦我就要做宣告就是說再跟委員來溝通那並參照委員的意見研擬相關文字再提出來處理啦我們沒辦法用嘴巴講啦到最後一定要提文字修正嘛好不好那我們等一下回頭再來處理這一條先暫時保留主席我們跟教職委員之間有一點點不同那我是不是可以很快簡短的補充那看看教職委員是不是可以同意"},{"start":12149.003,"end":12168.768,"text":"好 謝謝但是也要下出來是 跟昭志委員報告這個第三點的可責性的HTA評估部長已經同意納入我們的機制了那您在第一點寫到衛生醫療政策的資源分配事實上資源分配的責任主要是在健保署跟衛福部"},{"start":12169.228,"end":12193.621,"text":"這一個Chapter主要是做評估讓健保署跟衛福部做資源分配所以可能寫在這裡可能還有待商榷其他您提到的第二點ChapterHTA的支付跟醫療科技審查已經寫在裡面第四點持續評估跟監測這個也寫在裡面第五個醫療科技評估人才並培養具國際視野人才這個寫在我們的第五點"},{"start":12194.361,"end":12216.617,"text":"辦理國內外醫療科技評估交流合作那在您的第七點遞定公共參與的機制這個也符合我們目前Chapter的精神所以不曉得有沒有機會如同部長所說的我們把您說的可克則還有這個審議評估機制及方法學納入我們的第三條作為這一條的共識以上補充 謝謝"},{"start":12219.714,"end":12234.175,"text":"基本上當部長同意把可克者這個重要因為大家都 這很重要啊因為在分配資源所以你可以把克者的概念引進這樣的一個這個精神好 那這樣就大家知道意思"},{"start":12235.737,"end":12253.43,"text":"在場有很多委員我們沒有辦法你們講完什麼到底你們的共識是什麼還是要行之文字好不好這個是審法案裡面這個本來SOP就是要這樣子的不然你們說說而已你們兩個玩意而已我不知道要怎麼跟你們同歸社會還是要把文字寫出來"},{"start":12255.585,"end":12272.778,"text":"來 我先處理程序因為要處理一下會議時間原定會議時間已經到了但是我們要繼續開了所以先處理會議時間我們中午就不休息上午的會議我們就繼續來進行討論事項的處理來 第三條我們就暫保留"},{"start":12282.206,"end":12302.938,"text":"第四條各個提案的條文內容其實都相同我們就按照行政院提案版本通過第五條各提案條文內容均相同我們就按照行政院的提案通過第二張張明各提案的張明均相同我們就按照行政院提案通過"},{"start":12304.482,"end":12320.589,"text":"第6條 除了郭育晴委員等16人提案以外其餘各提案內容相同還有陳昭之委員有提一個修正動議第6條其實也很少"},{"start":12334.924,"end":12353.089,"text":"第幾項 跟主席跟委員報告在第六條郭玉琴委員所提到的要包含並有團體代表或維護並有權益的專業人士我們已經溝通過因為這個就包含在專業人士裡面所以第六條郭委員的部分我們已經溝通過 以上補充好 程昭之委員來 請說明"},{"start":12355.054,"end":12378.665,"text":"你不要說我跟別人不一樣我跟別人不一樣是好事你不要當作是每天都壞事我不會說的不就是壞事我不會說這一點我們有一個重要的修正動議的精神是說董事會的不應該是由透過官方過半的人數來整理那如果直接看數字我們在這個"},{"start":12382.887,"end":12400.178,"text":"我們主張這個官方政府相關機關代表不得超越三分之一但是行政院版是二分之一是官方不得少於官方不得少於這個跟我們是有最大的這個差異也是在這個地方因為整個這個"},{"start":12401.759,"end":12416.506,"text":"這樣的設計當然行政院這樣的設計有助於行政體系掌握但事實上這個醫療科技本身是很高度專業需要獨立判斷的工作在過度受到行政立場或政策的影響我們是盡量能夠避免"},{"start":12416.886,"end":12436.818,"text":"那我要講的是這一點我們參考三分之一報告主席我們這個也有參考來源我們參考國家電影及視聽文化中心的寫法那修法說明第二點也有講可能依然科技評估因為這是個高度專業以及跨領域為了避免董事的運作過度行政化並且提高本這個中心專業判斷獨立性跟社會信任度"},{"start":12437.698,"end":12450.764,"text":"因為你在分配資源你在評估然後可不可以用到這麼寶貴的健保資源所以我們覺得這個社會信任度跟專業獨立性是非常重要的所以我們希望這個由政府相關機關出任的董事比例"},{"start":12454.11,"end":12466.694,"text":"應該是不得預三分之一不得預全人數三分之一其他我們可以邀請學者 專家 社會人士來參與包括剛剛郭育群委員提到的病人代表的部分我們最重要的堅持點在這個地方請部長參考"},{"start":12472.83,"end":12485.031,"text":"好 謝謝 其實這個條文修正動議裡面啦就是三分之一到二分之一這個這樣而已啦 意見都可以你給他比這樣OK什麼意思 來 那個有事要委員"},{"start":12488.902,"end":12509.341,"text":"確實我過去在教育文化委員會那個電影視聽中心確實是有這樣規定那是因為在藝文界的人才的部分好像民間廣納人才但是這個部分我這邊不曉得有沒有行政院的法治的相關人員我們畢竟成立了非常多這樣子的中心組織"},{"start":12510.649,"end":12531.819,"text":"有涉董監事的那剛交資委員提的是這個電影視聽中心的案例啦對於董事會官方代表不得超過二分之一或三分之一就我的印象中好應當二分之一因為要客責嘛政府負責嘛"},{"start":12533.396,"end":12543.666,"text":"所以那個常態的規定哪些二分之一跟三分之一在其他的設立中心有董事會的組成的經驗上是什麼可能大家來參考一下可能周延一點那我想需要有這方面資訊來有利於我們來判斷人種"},{"start":12557.601,"end":12572.784,"text":"在現行的這個設置條例裡面對官方的一個要有設置比例的部分目前是我們檢視初步沒有看到有對於政府機關代表的這個要一定的比例的這部分沒有這樣的一個限制有 我們有把這個條文對照表都有列出來"},{"start":12590.001,"end":12596.227,"text":"如果您的意見的話就是之前的那個電影視聽中心是唯一那現在第二個是唯二嗎是這樣嗎"},{"start":12601.623,"end":12616.945,"text":"陳昭之委員修正案您就是要將政府的保障降低因為這個醫療科技你說大家不辦我也盡量慢慢講不要生氣慢慢講沒有啦 沒有人生氣我是叫你不要氣不噴我才會生氣"},{"start":12617.546,"end":12632.622,"text":"目前很急 我講話比較快我慢一下一兆元的可能將來會更多對金剛投資的部分那他是在決定這個資源有沒有價值去給付該不該付 要不要付 付哪些這個是全民"},{"start":12633.343,"end":12661.914,"text":"都會受到影響所以他不是一個單純的行政工作那為了讓這個結合公共他其實專業包括公衛包括臨床專業健康經濟成本效益分析那病人使用的經驗跟社會價值判斷有些人你看了你覺得他不能他能走出家門他能去上課他能去上班這些過去都沒有在健保新藥新科技的評估考慮範圍過去我們都在考慮錢我有多少錢做多少事"},{"start":12662.774,"end":12687.37,"text":"那好不容易成立了這一個那如果董事會是比較行政機關代表我比較擔心會出現說評估結果就會被行政考量主導那專業意見就淪為諮詢 參考用這樣結果社會對這個評估的信任這個成立它的信任度就是還是降低啦所以我們是這樣子去設計目的就是這樣讓大家都能夠接受也能夠檢測甚至有一定的透明度"},{"start":12687.89,"end":12702.223,"text":"因為這關係每一個人啦老少小 每一個人的現在就是你要把政府的本來是二分之一的現在變三分之一了來 機關再說明那個跟委員說明聚焦啦 好不好 你們聚焦啦"},{"start":12703.243,"end":12732.276,"text":"我們在這個訂定的時候確實也有參考目前已經通過的各個行政法人那麼在行政法人裡面如果涉及到國家高度介入或者是具有特殊敏感性的行政法人那麼政府機關代表都是不得少於二分之一譬如說國家資通安全研究院設置條例那麼第一項第一項都是政府代表"},{"start":12732.836,"end":12746.825,"text":"那麼都不得低於董事總人數的二分之一那麼譬如說在這個國家太空中心設置條例也是不得少於總人數的二分之一那麼"},{"start":12748.908,"end":12768.286,"text":"另外就是比較會涉及到這個高度比較管制的或者是敏感性的大概都會有這樣的考量那因為我們考慮到這個HTA的中心其實他會需要用到我們很多健保的資料也好"},{"start":12769.127,"end":12797.319,"text":"或一些這個醫療的資料是屬於比較高敏感性所以我們才會參考像國家之通安全研究院因為後面的人員也一樣會被管制的他是會被管制的人員所以國家之通安全研究院的設置條例或者是國家太空中心設置條例那麼有這樣的這個政府機關代表不得少於二分之一的條文的"},{"start":12798.282,"end":12801.298,"text":"這個考量以上說明主席請求發言"},{"start":12803.38,"end":12828.967,"text":"張正旭委員說明謝謝剛剛張志祺委員很期待未來這個苛責性透明性透明度都是讓全民可以得到很大的信任可是這個苛責性本身如果連結到我們這個董建市這個任命或者人數的話可能要有一定的一定的可以可以讓他去針對苛責跟負責之間"},{"start":12831.408,"end":12856.611,"text":"要有一個配套或者是要有一個衡平所以我的意思就是說如何能夠讓克則跟這個代表之間有一個衡平性剛剛部長也做了說明我相信剛剛任總那邊也做了說明是不是針對克則性跟這個比例之間有一個更需要讓在這個討論可以更為完整的部分可不可以再提供意見 以上"},{"start":12858.732,"end":12879.538,"text":"關於政府機關代表的這個設置比例的部分大概有兩個方向的一個不同的一個訂定那其中有五個就是法人的部分是有規定說不得低於二分之一就是政府機關代表不得低於五分之一"},{"start":12879.858,"end":12905.467,"text":"二分之一包含住都中心還有文化內容及策進院那再來是資通安全資安院然後再來還有太空中心以及原子能科技研究院這五個設置條例是規定政府機關的代表不得低於總是總人數的二分之一就是不得低於那另外也有規定就是不得超過的不得超過的是包含"},{"start":12912.509,"end":12919.733,"text":"國家運動訓練中心是規定說董事不得超過三分之一那再來還有"},{"start":12922.117,"end":12948.012,"text":"對 政府不得超過三分之一那還有剛剛委員特別提到的這個電影及視聽文化中心這個也是不得超過三分之一那再來還有運科中心這個也是不能超過三分之一那還有另外兩個包含運動產業發展中心跟海洋科技營運中心也都是"},{"start":12949.765,"end":12963.338,"text":"就是在運動產業發展中心也是不能超過三分之一所以它大概有這些不同的方向的一個不同的一個訂定那是依機關的一個需要跟組織的性質來做這樣的一個處理以上報告"},{"start":12965.633,"end":12987.699,"text":"來 機關再說明 就是說不一定要二分之一你們會覺得對於整個法律制定 你們才可以把它達到它的功能啦招致委員是說 我特別三分之一得就是不要說全部都在政府 都是官方在去做主導啦"},{"start":12989.387,"end":12996.217,"text":"兩個不同的邏輯各自言之成理啦但是請你們再說明您可以說服啊 好不好剛剛"},{"start":12999.11,"end":13027.447,"text":"沒關係 他要回應你他要回應你趙執委員謝謝就是趙執委員一開始提到的可克者我們已經納進來也充分理解說這個國家科技醫療評估中心扮演至關重要幾副再幾副 停職幾副的角色但是關於為什麼我們在行政法人的部分目前在部長的指導之下Chapter我們是設定不得低於二分之一我們是比照資通安全研究院原因就在於剛剛部長所提到的我們這個Chapter"},{"start":13028.127,"end":13042.177,"text":"國家科技醫療評估中心會牽涉到我們的99.99全民涵蓋的健保資料庫是特級敏感資料那我們希望政府代表不得低於二分之一維持政府的可克責性以上補充 謝謝"},{"start":13045.77,"end":13063.863,"text":"說服不了我這個跟裡面幾個人一個就要泄密出去了這個有自有規範每個被聘的委員跟董事都簽有一定的規範剛剛我也嘗試說王醫師在說克責當然覺得克責要官員來克責不是你只要有權利去做任何事情做任何提出任何幾乎都是要參考因為等一下後面的幾題我也會提到健保署也顧了很多專家給他意見"},{"start":13070.228,"end":13091.042,"text":"其實這個專家本身也要對他所作所作的評估要負起責然後建議這個要不要給幾付甚至我要合你多少錢這權利很大所以只要這個機制這個課則不是把你抓去關這個課則就基本上你的機制要很清楚你的最好還是透明的然後每一個人的背景都可以被檢驗等等"},{"start":13093.184,"end":13101.952,"text":"這個誰說只有政府可以被課責呢那太多人了那其他人不用被課責他們的課責現在都安裝現在沒有啦 現在名單都是秘密等一下我再遞到 繼續遞好啦 你先喝咖啡啦 吳思瑤你講話不要放"},{"start":13107.962,"end":13122.4,"text":"为什么刚刚我要特别谨慎的请任总再去查清楚他所说的内容因为这就跟我们过去在审查非常多的这种法人的组织在组成董事会的成员他是非常严谨的考量"},{"start":13123.121,"end":13141.633,"text":"所以經過這些報告還有剛剛布里頭的再說明我確實就是更堅定了我的看法我要支持願版正因為這樣一個新設的組織它政府是承擔高度的政治責任而且這高達99.8%的全民健保的這些list資料庫的機敏的資料"},{"start":13146.798,"end":13172.259,"text":"所以說讓政府的所以第一個要跟教資委員報告這個二分之一政府代表要達到二分之一不是這個組織新創而是過去好幾個精明的而且它是涉及國家重要政策發展事項的這些新設的法人組織你看住都中心 文策院當時我們在做這個文化部門的時候確實對於文策院也是討論了很久"},{"start":13173.22,"end":13198.152,"text":"然後再來資安院更不用說太空是因為國家正在發展的重要的太空實力我們不能夠落後國際所以強化對於政府的投入某種程度就是強化對於政府的苛責然後當然還有這個原子能這當然它的重要性也不在話下所以我是希望說招資委員能夠去"},{"start":13200.14,"end":13227.299,"text":"理解大家外界都有一種錯覺是說都是你政府的人所以你就不被監督了反而相反因為你是政府的人來作為這個重要政策重要組織的營運或是決策的時候我們立法委員在監督跟要求反而可以更精準對焦否則當你三分之二都是外部委員的時候我們怎麼克責啊"},{"start":13228.752,"end":13250.565,"text":"我們可以把外部委員請來立法院監督嗎所以這個是一種比較長期會存有的一些些的不同的想法所以我是希望這個機關的重要性特殊性重大健康政策的進步性我們擴大的民間參與的同時我們絕對願意去延攬民間的專家"},{"start":13255.127,"end":13270.474,"text":"但是對於政府要承擔政策的責任的這一項站在立法院監督的角色我是希望比照其他的法人組織我們一樣政府的機關人員還是要達到過半的比例這是我的思考這條"},{"start":13277.219,"end":13281.245,"text":"我不是不跟你說,你要說什麼我都可以說問題是大家都說不通,連口仔都沒意思我把這條先暫保留,等下回來再處理"},{"start":13302.389,"end":13309.654,"text":"第七條 第七條各提案的條文內容均相同我們就按照行政院的提案通過"},{"start":13311.072,"end":13338.758,"text":"第八條各提案的條文內容也都一樣我們就按照行政院的提案通過第九條各提案的條文內容都一樣大家看一下長得一模一樣就按照行政院的提案通過第十條各提案的條文內容也均相同就按照行政院的提案通過第十一條各提案的條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過第十二條"},{"start":13339.778,"end":13363.056,"text":"各提案條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過第十三條各提案的條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過第十四條各提案條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過第十五條除了郭玉琴委員等16人提案以外其餘各提案內容均相同郭玉琴委員"},{"start":13370.242,"end":13390.339,"text":"主席還有委員跟在座各位委員報告在這一題呢我們去看過我們目前政府所有的行政法人目前全部都是寫說應該要親自出席列席董事會議不得委託他人代理所以我們是比照其他的行政法人那郭委員那邊我們已經溝通過以上補充 謝謝"},{"start":13391.567,"end":13420.709,"text":"好第15條按照行政院提案通過第16條各提案條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過第17條各提案條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過第18條各提案條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過第19條各提案的條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過20條各提案條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過"},{"start":13422.31,"end":13445.736,"text":"21條 各提案條文內容均相同 按照行政院提案通過第三章 各提案的章名均相同 按照行政院提案通過22條 各提案的條文內容均相同 按照行政院提案通過23條 各提案的條文內容均相同 按照行政院提案通過"},{"start":13446.536,"end":13474.351,"text":"24條各提案的條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過25條各提案的條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過第四張章的章名各提案的章名均相同按照行政院的提案通過26條各提案的條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過27條各提案條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過"},{"start":13476.072,"end":13499.208,"text":"28條各提案的條文內容均相同 按照行政院提案通過29條各提案的條文內容均相同 按照行政院提案通過30條各提案的條文內容均相同 按照行政院提案通過31條各提案的條文內容均相同 按照行政院提案通過"},{"start":13501.63,"end":13519.098,"text":"32條各提案的條文內容均相同我們就按照行政院的提案通過第5章的張明各提案的張明均相同我們按照行政院提案通過33條各提案條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過"},{"start":13522.102,"end":13534.039,"text":"34條各提案條文內容均相同我們就按採行政院的提案通過35條各提案條文內容均相同按照行政院提案通過"},{"start":13541.718,"end":13556.407,"text":"來 第三條討論事項第五案修正動議二這是第三條陳昭之委員修正動議請宣讀修正動議二 第三條"},{"start":13558.871,"end":13572.071,"text":"第一項第一款修正委發展與建立具科則性質醫療科技評估方法指引及審議機制與同行政院提案提案人陳昭芷等人宣讀完畢"},{"start":13578.732,"end":13589.836,"text":"這樣就 大家看一下啦就給那個第一款的修正啦我告訴你 你們有夠厲害的啦給他講一下就通過了 你們就看好 那我們就按照修正動議通過滴落 滴落掉 要再講一下嗎阿咖啡喔 你們就講一下有結論的 好不好那是看你們怎麼有人喝的"},{"start":13612.051,"end":13636.724,"text":"主席我再多插一句話因為可以看這個剛剛已經通過的第20條這個本中心的人員他都有一般查安全查核跟特殊安全查核的規定而且情節重大的還要送移送監察院依法辦理等等這一些這些安全查核不是所有的行政法人都有這個機制是這個比較特殊的所以因為他會接觸到這個"},{"start":13638.385,"end":13664.963,"text":"等同像這個健保一樣的這個健保資料資料庫那甚至他要去連結其他的資料庫所以他真的是需要叫一般的這個行政法人的監督要更強度更高所以我們是希望委員能夠支持在董事會裡面那麼以政府機關代表的董事能夠那麼二分之一這樣"},{"start":13666.089,"end":13667.133,"text":"主席要聽我講話了我講白話我講白話多迷人請講"},{"start":13672.318,"end":13698.226,"text":"那個苛責 苛責的意思其實是指整個決策過程剛剛那個部長講的是說已經做壞事了他把東西偷走了或過去確實有健保健保祖密這樣把他帶出去尤其情資人員給對案那是非常恐怖的事我現在講我們的苛責觀念是指說你整個決策你整個評估結果或是你使用的標準等等那是一個比較透明的方式一個大家可以去驗證檢驗的方式概念在這個地方"},{"start":13701.048,"end":13721.248,"text":"我想你問任何一個病人他們都不會清楚為什麼你的藥 我跟你一樣的病你的藥有幾副 我的藥沒有幾副這個是很常見甚至我自己要下去自費等等我是用最簡單的比喻所以基本上只要任何人你有去參與做這個決策的過程那你就要遵循一定的方法"},{"start":13722.049,"end":13748.534,"text":"譬如說這個藥在臨床上有所突破還是說比現在跟差不多還是一樣那為什麼我只納入你沒有納入別人我先舉例譬如說現在以藥品來說它有個適應症就是公法定的這個用途但是我們健保在癌症的部分在頂多只付三分之一百分之三能夠被給護照罕病更少當然貴嘛再放在這個大概只有兩成左右但你這個絕熱過程怎麼選擇怎麼調整"},{"start":13751.114,"end":13775.568,"text":"你跟他說你愛什麼你愛什麼我要保持那個嗎是啦 你愛目的 你要愛什麼機關在回應你想要怎麼樣我們叫專家的比例比較高是 我們一個條文制定的意義就是說我要達到什麼樣的目的你現在的缺漏到底是怎麼樣你說機關現在的說明沒有辦法滿足你嘛不好意思你提出來說你現在要愛他沒辦法滿足你"},{"start":13778.991,"end":13791.999,"text":"哪一部分不好意思 我講這個話重一點官官相護啦官官相護不是滿足的問題啦我的意思就是說我希望外部的參與戰略比較高啦OK 這樣我聽好來 機關再回應機關再說明一下我們還是這個對委員同樣啦這個 我們這個這個行政法人的很多條文的比例原則的設計呢都是高度"},{"start":13809.725,"end":13825.022,"text":"這個監管啦所以希望能夠維持政府機關代表能按有二分之一比照這個資通安全研究院的規格我算 趙指揮我算孤注你知道嗎我聽你們外國人在這裡說來 培宇委員講完再請施堯委員"},{"start":13825.831,"end":13848.369,"text":"好 其实赵志伟刚刚讲到两个部分我其实也很想厘清像主席你问的一样因为赵志伟刚刚说例如说寒病的用药或者是癌症的用药其实能够被接触的很少你刚刚有提到这个例子所以你认为在这个审议过程的结果之后如果当事人或者是相关人士对于这个审议的结果有疑义你觉得大家好像可以提出来"},{"start":13849.209,"end":13877.356,"text":"所以你好像是針對這個部分你覺得苛責的部分不足我不確定因為你一直在講苛責這個比例至於所謂的公部門派去的人這個比例我覺得有一個問題是大家必須要考量的因為我們在立法院待這麼多年其實相關的預算其實是由相關行政機關來理解或者是把關或者是審議如果我們都完全沒有相關行政機關的人或是比例太低沒有辦法表達出行政機關的立場"},{"start":13878.536,"end":13906.438,"text":"那我覺得那個在比例上其實會有很大的困境啦那我當然認同趙思維委員的人道關懷跟人權的關懷我完全可以理解那只是說行政機關的角色他們所能夠呈現出來看到預算的或者是政策的走向或者是預算的使用合理性所以我認為行政為不不堅持相關的比例應該還是有其原因的那當然這是我的猜測因為我們在不同的委員會不同的法人機構裡面也會看到不同的組成比例"},{"start":13906.858,"end":13936.364,"text":"所以我想就還是讓衛福部說明他們之所以有這個在意的點到底是什麼謝謝來主席不在因為他是說講話換我這樣子好那就請市長委員來幫忙發言我是立法委員我們在立法院是我們唯一能夠透過審查法案審查預算或是排案來監督政策來watch替人民行使權利去"},{"start":13937.825,"end":13950.344,"text":"苛責行政部門該承擔的政策責任那如果說一個組織他的董事會他的重要的決策的那個核心政府部門反而變成少數了那我來苛責他"},{"start":13953.601,"end":13979.743,"text":"有一些意見覺得說你這個中心跟當初的執行背道而馳喔那怎麼會這樣然後未來這個東西中心的董事長說不然我當事會就這樣決定這是會發生的喔所以說比照太空中心資安駐都中心文策院文策院非常重要喔他是把我們對於文化藝術的從過去的執走補助一軌現在改成"},{"start":13980.403,"end":13991.618,"text":"外加投資一軌這是一個新的政策方向所以國家要去為自己的新新的政策方向去負起責任take responsibility"},{"start":13992.819,"end":14010.208,"text":"所以說tech responsibility跟你的accountability其實我覺得是同一件事我反而不會認為說像交資委員覺得說你政府占多了所以說你的席次過二分之一我反而好像沒有辦法watch到你我真的這個思維反而是顛倒的"},{"start":14010.948,"end":14035.217,"text":"那另外我要說也許有另外一種方式好招資委員想的是說讓民間的人多參與這個方向我們沒有反對那你現在的董事設11到15人我舉例啦要不你讓董事的員額增加多一點點好比如19到20然後一樣維持政府的這個比例政府還是"},{"start":14036.676,"end":14050.3,"text":"負全責嘛行政責任負全責嘛但是為了增加多一點人來參與民間的專家的話那如果在設置的人數上做一些調整會不會是一個讓交資委員也接受的這樣子謝謝吳委員的發言"},{"start":14060.827,"end":14075.077,"text":"剛剛大家都可以舉很多的機關當然我們也舉運動訓練中心因為那也是高度專業的他們裡面也是三分之一剛剛我也提到國家電影跟視聽化中心也是三分之一那這個醫療科技"},{"start":14077.008,"end":14090.58,"text":"真的今天為什麼要設計醫療可以本來我們就有一個醫療評估小組已經服務健保署所需要的因為業務的推展等等都已經從2007年11月開始已經服務了大概18、9年了"},{"start":14092.361,"end":14096.166,"text":"那為什麼今天要成立這個就是保證他的一個專業跟獨立性然後這個現在大家國民對這些過程對他最後分配的資源他盡了義務等等也是非常高度重視不過不會像裴委員講的不是每一個人他說為什麼我要沒有我剛剛強調的其實是說"},{"start":14112.2,"end":14133.296,"text":"這個要由專家學者在裡面的過程當中他們其實在一個相對決策是透明的有標準機制是可以被討論的情況之下他們做出這個決定老實說我最後這幾年在健保署看的我必須說你們聘了三四十個委員在現場最後都是幾個官員說了算"},{"start":14135.339,"end":14163.578,"text":"因為大家就轉向你啊沒錢啊 現在多少錢 你就做最後決定連主持人主持完講完 講完喔那因為我當立委後 後來我被開除OK 但第一年沒有被開除之前我還是參加 然後我把主持人辭掉連主持人 我看到嚇一跳每個主持人主持完那個專家會議然後最後說 請問健保署的意見是什麼把我嚇到啦他就算三四個人是當然委員因為職位相關 即便在場幾十個委員"},{"start":14165.39,"end":14193.409,"text":"那都可以也是可以這樣子做啊大家就聽所以基本上是這個是一個非常重要的時刻了也很感謝說能夠推出來本來你是在去年要推出來了那現在今年推出來了我們這個資源我們不能好好做一個典範嗎其實在很多先進國家他們討論很多包括疫苗的通過包括整個這個一個一個授權都是透明公開的那我們今天不是我今天剛才強調那個機制標準有一定的方法其實是那個背景專家學者不是指病人"},{"start":14193.869,"end":14198.111,"text":"病人是他是參與可能一兩個角色我講的專程是健康經濟公共衛生這個成本效益評估等等其他的國家都可以參考 很好聽到沒有人的意見"},{"start":14209.907,"end":14227.652,"text":"我想舉一個例子不好意思 發便當 邊吃飯邊講我想講一個例子其實不管在民間的任何專家學者都有機會成為官方委託的所謂官派的代表"},{"start":14228.192,"end":14253.696,"text":"所以他的专业并不因为他今天坐在所谓民间这一排或者是官派代表那一排而有所减损所以我其实没有办法直接的接受刚刚赵斯委员直接用官官相互来控诉这件事情那也因为他即将要成相关的法理要成立那我认为站在支持相关的版本的前提下而且也请赵斯委员信任"},{"start":14254.236,"end":14272.302,"text":"所有這些官派的代表也請信任相關行政機關他絕對不會找一個阿貓阿狗放進來然後你認為他是不合格的我認為每一個人在自己的專業的位置上都有不同的視角去切入去看你剛剛所在意的這些事情而不是只是用一個官官相互就認為您所提的比例就一定是對的 以上委員"},{"start":14276.221,"end":14290.96,"text":"教育委員 我很認真的在想達到彼此的共識那剛剛也跟崇良部長商量了一下最後倒數第二項我們如果從現在的"},{"start":14293.061,"end":14307.638,"text":"行政院的版本不得官方董事不得少於董事總人數的二分之一我們把它改成不得超過董事人數的二分之一就是說你保持二分之一的這一個"},{"start":14309.599,"end":14333.069,"text":"這個比例因為真的是比照資安會啦太空中心這個重要國家的新興的重要領域的發展好那個1%把它維持但是從不得少於調整為不得超過他就是有一些不得欲啦這個就有差別了好不好我覺得石部長也充分的"},{"start":14334.542,"end":14353.576,"text":"往您的方向來推進不得欲 董事總人數的二分之一因為那二分之一 那不要動它啦我剛才說的 跟其他的單位那個重要機敏的 重要國家政策的部分齊平 那二分之一不要動但是我們很努力的達到 您所希望的那個方向"},{"start":14354.517,"end":14371.611,"text":"所以我覺得這樣應該是大家可以compromise而且彼此都尊重的方法 好不好謝謝 吳思耀委員 早知我看這樣好了你看看 執政黨對於哪好就好你的案子沒那麼多成案的都大家跟你簽的 你知道嗎我拜託大家要配合你"},{"start":14377.161,"end":14384.513,"text":"謝謝你啦 讓我另外一個案子讓你們怕被羞辱到不行那就不敢了 你在亂講你每次都說我們兩個人好都不可以支持我們兩個人好 你也不支持過民進黨"},{"start":14390.571,"end":14398.674,"text":"有共識的事情我們就做啦有共識的事情我們就做啦有共識的事情我們就做啦有共識的事情我們就做啦有共識的事情我們就做啦有共識的事情我們就做啦有共識的事情我們就做啦"},{"start":14411.278,"end":14439.528,"text":"其實王正旭委員他知道我在講什麼啦他也進入比較短的一段時間啦我們都是真的為了讓病人能夠有一個比較合理公平的使用嘛每一個人都可能是病人嘛每一個人都可能是進入這個狀況我們希望有一個比較符合醫療科技方的評估所以現在你們是說不得少於改成欲不得超過嘛就是欲不能超過那也可以等於嗎"},{"start":14441.38,"end":14470.222,"text":"不超过那也是等于哦也是等于哦等于有一半了但是就是1比1啦没有超过啦至少就是1比1不会是还是有差别的还是有差别的官方就是还是会以这个那我们就按照不得欲是不含本术不得欲OK但是不得欲的解读要解读对哦"},{"start":14472.04,"end":14495.818,"text":"這樣啦 按照成招之委員的修正動議但是那個不得遇董事總人數該二分之一啦好不好 這樣可以啦好 那我們就通過就是這個面子是給莊瑞雄招委員這是大家共事 好不好 大家幫你洗腦"},{"start":14500.423,"end":14507.755,"text":"我在裡面很久我真的是清楚我另外一個法要釋法我反而跑來這裡機關這邊擰一下給陳昭志委員簽一下"},{"start":14521.11,"end":14534.242,"text":"我們現在處理委員針對第五案所提的附帶決議共兩案請一併宣讀 宣讀後在主案來進行處理 請宣讀宣讀討論事項第五案附帶決議共兩項附帶決議一略以"},{"start":14540.253,"end":14555.921,"text":"要求本條例第六條所涉董事會聘任之學者專家不得同時為衛生福利部含轄下機關之諮詢專家提案人陳昭芝等人附帶決議二略移為因應科技"},{"start":14556.786,"end":14556.826,"text":"這樣這個不就"},{"start":14589.241,"end":14589.721,"text":"這裏附帶決議 有沒有意見好 那我們就附帶決議啊好 那我們就召喚通過"},{"start":14611.892,"end":14632.439,"text":"那附帶討論事項第五案的附帶決議第二王正旭委員的提案大家有意見嗎 衛務部機關有沒有意見遵照辦理那我們就召喚通過這是第六第五案 第五案在修正那邊那個修正東西簽名誰再說第五案他不簽名他現在吃不動沒有聽"},{"start":14641.904,"end":14650.328,"text":"討論事項第五案修正動議三第六條第"},{"start":14670.782,"end":14699.705,"text":"第二項修正為前項第一款是董事不得與董事總人數二分之一提案人陳昭芝等人宣讀完畢第六條我們就按照陳昭芝委員的提案修正通過"},{"start":14707.608,"end":14718.27,"text":"本案逐條均已處理完畢 來做以下宣告本案審查完畢 擬拒審查報告提請院會公決本案是否交由黨團協商好 那本案就不須交由黨團協商院會討論時由莊召集委員"},{"start":14737.592,"end":14757.234,"text":"需要 需要 需要 需要 需要 需要這個附帶要簽嗎 法案要交由黨團協商那院會討論時由莊召及委員瑞雄出席說明附帶決議兩項一併提報院會來處理條次引述條文部分文字及法制用語授權主席跟議事人員來整理"},{"start":14759.517,"end":14779.054,"text":"那我們現在來討論事項第六案 病案審查行政院函請審議國家中醫研究院設置條例草案等14案請問在場委員是不是要進行大力討論我們直接進入主條的審查來 現在修正動議先宣讀"},{"start":14788.707,"end":14808.929,"text":"討論事項第六案修正動議一第三條增訂第二項為本院依前項任務之需要得附設相關機關及場館相關機關相關機構及場館之設置應兼顧並促進區域均衡之發展提案人陳穎等人選舉完畢"},{"start":14819.473,"end":14841.598,"text":"現在名稱的部分我們是不是就按照行政院的提案通過沒有意見的話我們就按照行政院提案通過第一張張明各提案的張明都相同我們就按照行政院的提案通過第一條"},{"start":14844.076,"end":14861.425,"text":"第一條我們就按照行政院的提案通過第二條呢按照行政院的提案通過第三條就陳穎委員等四人所提修正動議大家有看到嗎"},{"start":14870.023,"end":14874.044,"text":"來 稱營委員的修正動議就增加了第二項本院依前項任務之需要得附設相關機構及場館相關機構及場館就設置應兼顧並促進區域均衡之發展請問機關有沒有意見"},{"start":14899.403,"end":14921.858,"text":"陳毅委員的修正動議我們原則上是支持就是預留了未來發展的需要但是文字的部分是不是說得附設相關機構及場館就好那個什麼相關機構及場館是設置應兼顧並促進區域"},{"start":14923.659,"end":14926.04,"text":"這個均衡式發展可以在立法說明裡面去強調就好"},{"start":14950.928,"end":14958.856,"text":"這樣你們也 你們不要都這樣好不好 你們搞不好要有一個文字站起來站起來我就幫你們簽 有動的我就替你們簽這樣這條先暫保留 你們先把文字擬一下"},{"start":14983.049,"end":14986.335,"text":"第四條我們就按照行政院的提案通過"},{"start":15016.572,"end":15021.536,"text":"有關第四條我做更正行政院你現在又提了一個修正條文"},{"start":15023.786,"end":15050.696,"text":"要簽 要簽 要簽沒有看到條文主席只能這樣處理你們要做修正東西一定要看到文字等一下 等一下你們是要按原提議還是你們的修正我們的修正"},{"start":15054.574,"end":15058.335,"text":"你委員的心都用嘴講的就有尊嚴嗎我們這裡沒有人嘴講的尊嚴"},{"start":15081.671,"end":15107.603,"text":"跟委員說明第四條本來行政院的版本第一項有叫做得負責宜蘭病症中醫研究教學醫療機構那其他的委員都是希望說不要只限於宜蘭病症可以是中醫教學研究醫療機構我們競表同意那麼第二個是我們希望"},{"start":15108.283,"end":15131.548,"text":"在這個訂定前項的醫療機構的時候要有一些管理跟監督的規章經這個董事會通過後來被查那這樣的修正的文字剛好跟羅廷偉委員的版本是一致所以是不是就直接按羅廷偉委員版本通過就可以"},{"start":15138.019,"end":15160.407,"text":"他跟羅廷輝委員的版本一樣這樣你們建議這條你們是同意羅廷輝委員的版本喔我們如果修正後的文字就是跟羅廷輝委員版本的文字是一樣的就是把那個宜蘭雜症那幾個字刪除"},{"start":15162.008,"end":15168.313,"text":"那剛好羅廷偉委員的版本跟行政院的版本就是差那幾個疑難雜症疑難病症"},{"start":15175.58,"end":15191.458,"text":"沒有啦 我知道你們的意思啦 我的意思是說你們整個 不管你們要叫誰 議會你轉播啦不然你要照完正序 要照林月琴照誰的版本你除非全部都照他的版本 你要三日你應該要重新擬文字上來"},{"start":15229.363,"end":15233.264,"text":"因為第四條已經有羅廷萬委員的版本就是這個文字了"},{"start":15247.216,"end":15264.997,"text":"是啦 我的意思是說你們自己有版本 別人有的 我本來是叫你們的通過你們現在要別人的 你們先說就好 就是說你不要用你行政院的版本現在就是這個第四條就按照羅廷偉委員的版本通過 在場有沒有意見好 那我們就通過"},{"start":15297.649,"end":15299.35,"text":"這樣現在的你這個"},{"start":15301.172,"end":15323.94,"text":"各委員的提案裡面喔那很多行政院沒有相對應的條文喔現在鍾嘉斌委員第四條的提案陳穎委員 葉元之委員莊瑞雄委員 劉建國委員林月琴委員 沈發衛委員王玉銘委員 張雅玲委員現在其他的頒布的都不予採納喔就這樣 好不好"},{"start":15335.341,"end":15363.134,"text":"來 第五條 我是要幫你們捧場的 你們的案子總要給我繪起來來 第五條 按照行政院的提案通過第六條 按照行政院提案通過第二章的張明 各提案張明均相同 按照行政院提案通過第七條 按照行政院提案通過第八條 按照行政院提案通過第九條 按照行政院的提案通過"},{"start":15366.462,"end":15383.244,"text":"第十条按照行政院提案通过第十一条按照行政院提案通过第十二条按照行政院提案通过第十三条按照行政院提案通过第十四条按照行政院提案通过第十五条按照行政院提案通过"},{"start":15384.695,"end":15408.692,"text":"这是15 16 16条按照行政院的提案通过第17条按照行政院的提案通过18条按照行政院提案通过第19条按照行政院的提案通过第20条按照行政院提案通过而第三张张明的按照行政院的提案通过"},{"start":15410.623,"end":15429.394,"text":"21条就按照行政院的提案通过22条按照行政院提案通过23条按照行政院提案通过第4张张明按照行政院提案通过第24条按照行政院提案通过25条按照行政院提案通过"},{"start":15431.074,"end":15444.717,"text":"26條按照行政院提案通過27條按照行政院提案通過28條按照行政院提案通過29條按照行政院提案通過30條按照行政院提案通過報告主席來是財政部代表發言"},{"start":15459.572,"end":15459.981,"text":"好來去健康"},{"start":15461.624,"end":15488.998,"text":"在中醫藥的條文第15條的部分在第15條的第一項第二款有提到就是因為依照行政院版本條草案的立法說明第一項是在訂名國家中醫藥研究院董事等人除今董事會特別局議同意之外原則是不可以跟中醫藥研究院進行買賣租賃承攬等交易的這些行為"},{"start":15492.51,"end":15506.777,"text":"是 對 那這個部分因為它現在這個第一項第二款的文字是提到說執行國家建設公共政策公益用途申請承租承購委託經營改良利用國有非公用不動產"},{"start":15507.757,"end":15523.163,"text":"我們這邊要說明的是國有非公共不動產的管理機關是只有財政部國有財產署所以以行政院版本的草案的文字來看的話這一條的用意應該是要指的是說董事等人要"},{"start":15523.843,"end":15540.475,"text":"成租成購的這些財產應該是國家中醫藥研究院的財產而不是國有非公用不動產所以中醫研究所他們之前在會前已經有洽本署這邊他們有做一個條文的一個修正那是不是可以請衛福部這邊做代表做說明"},{"start":15543.504,"end":15570.465,"text":"來 請機關說明確實我們的考量有這些例外但是可能未來不夠完善所以我們同意把它修正依照公職人員利益衝突迴避法第14條第一項但書規定的情形就不再直線我們有一個修正的文字在請委員簽署部長你都要打屁股"},{"start":15571.186,"end":15572.367,"text":"我一條一條給你們蒙耶我一條一條給你們蒙 蒙到你們大家你們是在修正文字趕快弄上來再來做更正"},{"start":15716.028,"end":15721.882,"text":"衛福部你們要特別留意一下我們在審任何的法案都是院會交付"},{"start":15724.421,"end":15749.077,"text":"教員教父喔 你們現在說的是你們自己說的喔你們自己說的 你要有提案啦 一定要有提案啦你沒有一個提案之後 我給你宣讀的是都照行政院提案通過耶 不是照你們修正通過耶你們修正那是不好的耶 那是你們自己開槓而已你一定要有一個提案修正通過好不好 不要這樣啦 那麼多條文講過那麼多次了"},{"start":16442.31,"end":16448.833,"text":"好,來,請就座。那增加的修正動議,幾個字。好,沒有關係,所有增加的修正動議請宣讀。"},{"start":16474.762,"end":16503.391,"text":"討論事項第六案修正動議二第十五條第一項修正為董事兼是院長或該等職務相當之人及其關係人不得與本院為買賣 租賃承攬或其他教育行為但有公職人員立從土匪閉法等十四條第一項單書規定之情形經董事會特別決議者不在此限提案人王正旭等人"},{"start":16505.345,"end":16533.024,"text":"修正動議三第29條第一項本院所舉借之債務以具自償性質者為限應並應先送監督機關核定第二項預算執行結果有不能自償之餘時應即檢討提出改善措施報監督機關核定提案人王正旭等人"},{"start":16537.355,"end":16563.416,"text":"宣誓動議是第二項修正為前向人於退休之前生肖日及七個月內在任公務人員退休之前撫恤法以下簡稱退撫法第七十七條第一項各款所列職務之一且每月之齡薪酬總額超過同條所定金額時應由在任機關扣除其退休之前月數之縫及總額"},{"start":16566.758,"end":16595.255,"text":"未住經後收繳其餘額並繳回監督機關提案人王正旭等人修正動議五第34條修正為原機關現有依聘用人員聘用條例聘用之人員以下簡稱聘用人員其聘用契約尚未期滿且不願隨同移轉本院者與機關改制之日辦理離職"},{"start":16597.146,"end":16620.066,"text":"處依各機關學校聘僱人員離職給予辦法判以外並依其最後在職月資報酬為計算標準也是交發七個月之月資報酬但契約將屆滿人員依其提前離職之月數發給之潛下等於離職生肖日期七個月內"},{"start":16621.365,"end":16644.982,"text":"在任推伏法第七條第一項各款所列職務之一且每月資領薪酬總額超過同條所定金額時應在任機關扣除離職月數之月之報酬後收繳其餘額並繳為監督機關原機關聘用人員於機關改制之日隨同移轉本院者"},{"start":16646.227,"end":16673.276,"text":"應於改制之日辦理離職並依各機關學校聘僱人員離職給予辦法規定辦理不加發七個月月資報酬並改依本院人事管理規章禁用提案人黃正旭等人修正動議六三十五條據莫修正為收繳其餘額"},{"start":16674.963,"end":16678.646,"text":"第一項計謀修正為收繳其餘額並繳為監督機關與為修正提案人員證據等人宣讀完畢"},{"start":16704.003,"end":16729.18,"text":"副大學也宣讀一下你不是教育嗎少一個啊少一個是不好意思沒有辦法幫大家多一個人討論事項第六案附帶決議略移有見台東市台灣少數同時具備氣候土地"},{"start":16730,"end":16746.65,"text":"生態完整性質地區適合系統性發展藥物植物產業原要求中草藥產業廊道示範區應納入台東打造台東為國內藥材穩定之供應基地提案人陳寅等人宣讀完畢"},{"start":16768.057,"end":16791.578,"text":"這個部長這個就很完整了讓有一些更具備氣候土地生態研究完整性的地方適合系統性發展要用植物產業台東你加入打造它變成台東市國內藥材穩定的供應基地"},{"start":16802.425,"end":16819.929,"text":"來繼續主條那我們第15條我們就按照王正旭委員的那個討論事項第6案修正動議2照王正旭委員的修正動議通過15條我們就更正宣告"},{"start":16828.328,"end":16831.951,"text":"叫王正旭委員修正動議通過29條那我們就來更正宣告依照討論事項第6案的修正動議3第29條更正宣告按照王正旭委員的修正動議通過"},{"start":16860.452,"end":16861.532,"text":"我們接續來處理委員鍾嘉斌 委員陳盈 委員葉元芝 委員莊瑞雄委員劉建國 委員林月琴 委員沈發慧 委員張雅琳所提的案子 行政界也沒有對案我們這些就不予採納"},{"start":16888.104,"end":16905.387,"text":"那第31條啊那這個內容其實大致都相同我們就按照行政院的提案通過第5章的章名各提案章名均相同按照行政院提案通過第32條按照行政院提案通過第33條修正動議"},{"start":16917.56,"end":16937.746,"text":"修正動議室機關這邊有沒有不同意見遵照辦理那我們就按照王正旭委員的修正動議通過34條修正動議 王正旭委員修正動議機關有沒有意見"},{"start":16940.774,"end":16958.396,"text":"遵照辦理那我們就第34條按照王正旭委員的修正動議通過第35條修正動議6機關有沒有不同意見遵照辦理那我們就按照第35條按照王正旭委員所提修正動議通過"},{"start":16959.557,"end":16988.817,"text":"第36條 按照行政院提案通過37條 按照行政院提案通過38條 按照行政院提案通過39條 各提案條文內容相同按照行政院提案通過40條 按照行政院提案通過41條 按照行政院提案通過42條 按照行政院提案通過43條 這提案跟條文都一樣按照行政院提案通過"},{"start":16990.638,"end":17003.485,"text":"第六章的章明各提案章明均相同按照行政院提案通過44條按照行政院提案通過45條按照行政院的提案通過40"},{"start":17013.723,"end":17034.116,"text":"這個沒有刑 這是四十三條 四十二條 四十四條 四十三條就委員鍾嘉斌 委員陳瑩 委員岳元之 委員莊瑞雄 委員劉建國委員林月琴 委員沈發慧 委員張雅琳所提的這個行政院這邊也沒有對案 我們就不予採納"},{"start":17040.313,"end":17045.918,"text":"46條各提案的條文內容均相同我們就按照行政院的提案通過來 剛才暫保留的第三條就是討論事項第六案修正動議7就是剛才說到的"},{"start":17065.575,"end":17093.646,"text":"就說明就說明就我們念一下就考量執行第三條第一項任務時確實有附設相關機構及場館之需要第二項附設相關機構及場館之設置應兼顧並促進區域均衡之發展這個是王振旭委員陳穎委員在提案那我們就機關有沒有不同意見遵照辦理我們就按照"},{"start":17097.948,"end":17109.595,"text":"條文是行政院的提案我們立法說明裡面就按照陳穎委員 王正樹委員跟我們幾個提案的修正動議通過"},{"start":17114.662,"end":17130.608,"text":"報告主席這個修正動議條文有補新增的第二項本願依前項任務之需要得附設相關機構及場館那其他說明文字是依照陳委員的建議沒有錯這樣就"},{"start":17137.366,"end":17165.606,"text":"按照王正旭委員的提案那個修正動議通過好我們就更正按照王正旭委員的修正動議通過我們現在處理委員針對第六案所提附帶決議共一案這個已經宣已經宣讀了那附帶決議第一案請問提案委員有沒有補充說明沒有請問機關有沒有其他不同意見跟說明遵照辦理"},{"start":17167.071,"end":17167.792,"text":"哦哦哦哦哦"},{"start":17184.848,"end":17204.727,"text":"這個文字本來我們就已經授權我們議事人員這邊去做調整我們再把它唸一次就是這個修正動議條文王委員你聽一下 給你改一下就是本院依前項任務之需要本來是德設附設相關機構及場館我們現在就德 附 設相關機構及場館你去設就把它換掉"},{"start":17210.356,"end":17214.783,"text":"第一個設我們就劃掉了不用給他了是 同意可以喔好 謝謝王委員來 附帶決議第一案我們就轉通過了"},{"start":17228.792,"end":17240.405,"text":"本案逐條均已處理完畢 作以下宣告本案審查完畢 擬拒審查報告提請院會公決本案是否需交由黨團協商愛啦OK 好 就本案"},{"start":17247.574,"end":17277.003,"text":"整包的一定都交由黨團協商那本案就交由黨團協商院會討論時由莊昭及委員瑞雄出席說明附帶決議一項一併提報院會處理條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語授權主席跟議事人員來整理議程所列事項都已處理完畢本次會議到此結束現在散會謝謝大家辛苦了"},{"start":17278.599,"end":17289.287,"text":"我告訴你 我們這是不簡單的發生什麼案件的時候是每一個人來這邊叫叫什麼大聲的 跟什麼一樣結果在審法案的時候 照顧不完的我會很負責任 要你信任"}]}},{"id":"17210","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17210","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea831044d4eb4d20987ef8ffe3c1e695f70a219bd209750d2da2c473f64e2ed8fc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-19","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-19T08:36:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:49:00+08:00","duration":18780,"影片長度":"05:13:00","委員發言時間":"08:36:00 - 13:49:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1649.59596875,"end":1652.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1653.5784687500002,"end":1657.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1660.8684687500001,"end":1666.8422187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1668.00659375,"end":1682.9578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1683.3965937500002,"end":1685.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1685.28659375,"end":1688.1553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1688.37471875,"end":1691.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1691.3784687500001,"end":1696.1878437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1696.6603437500003,"end":1701.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1701.6384687500001,"end":1706.4647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1706.8528437500001,"end":1712.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1712.6409687500002,"end":1716.3534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1716.7584687500002,"end":1718.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1719.1209687500002,"end":1719.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1720.03221875,"end":1721.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1721.8209687500002,"end":1724.5715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1725.1959687500002,"end":1726.1747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1726.64721875,"end":1729.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1729.8028437500002,"end":1732.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1732.8740937500002,"end":1737.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1737.6834687500002,"end":1739.3372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1739.5565937500003,"end":1743.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1743.7078437500002,"end":1747.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1747.3865937500002,"end":1751.3184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1751.5040937500003,"end":1753.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1753.9678437500002,"end":1756.9378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1757.15721875,"end":1760.5997187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1760.8697187500002,"end":1764.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1765.1222187500002,"end":1769.8978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1770.5559687500001,"end":1771.8047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1772.07471875,"end":1778.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1778.4365937500002,"end":1782.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1785.1865937500002,"end":1788.9159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1790.2659687500002,"end":1798.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1800.0872187500001,"end":1809.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1809.90846875,"end":1812.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1812.7940937500002,"end":1821.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1825.9059687500003,"end":1827.1547187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1827.32346875,"end":1827.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1828.5384687500002,"end":1838.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1841.80221875,"end":1842.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1844.75534375,"end":1845.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1847.6409687500002,"end":1849.0584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1852.21409375,"end":1852.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1853.4459687500002,"end":1855.5553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1858.0190937500001,"end":1859.2340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1861.5965937500002,"end":1862.9803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1866.42284375,"end":1870.5740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1874.43846875,"end":1881.3065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1875.43409375,"end":1875.6365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1875.9740937500003,"end":1876.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1884.14159375,"end":1885.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1887.9722187500001,"end":1890.1322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1892.17409375,"end":1895.7347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1903.8009687500003,"end":1910.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1910.5678437500003,"end":1913.3690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1913.67284375,"end":1924.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1914.1622187500002,"end":1914.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1925.4515937500003,"end":1937.6353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1938.8672187500001,"end":1941.1622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1942.6640937500001,"end":1945.9547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1956.0965937500002,"end":1958.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1958.94846875,"end":1962.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1963.31909375,"end":1967.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1968.2803437500002,"end":1969.5965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1970.0522187500003,"end":1970.5078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1971.0984687500002,"end":1971.4190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1971.60471875,"end":1974.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1975.0809687500002,"end":1977.1397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1977.51096875,"end":1980.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1980.4134687500002,"end":1981.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1981.9997187500003,"end":1985.8640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1986.6909687500001,"end":1987.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1987.7034687500002,"end":1989.0365937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1990.2853437500003,"end":1992.9009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1993.1540937500001,"end":1998.6890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1999.02659375,"end":2002.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2002.68846875,"end":2003.1947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2003.7178437500002,"end":2009.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2009.2022187500002,"end":2010.6534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2010.7715937500002,"end":2011.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2012.3072187500002,"end":2014.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2014.3828437500001,"end":2015.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2015.3953437500002,"end":2016.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2016.8128437500002,"end":2018.9728437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2019.4453437500001,"end":2019.8165937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2020.1203437500003,"end":2021.6390937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2021.8415937500001,"end":2023.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2023.78221875,"end":2025.8578437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2026.2459687500002,"end":2027.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2027.6803437500002,"end":2029.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2030.0428437500002,"end":2031.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2032.1859687500003,"end":2033.4347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2033.6034687500003,"end":2035.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2035.2572187500002,"end":2036.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2036.3878437500002,"end":2036.9953437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2037.29909375,"end":2039.6278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2039.7290937500002,"end":2043.2897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2043.9478437500002,"end":2046.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2046.9515937500003,"end":2049.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2050.1072187500004,"end":2052.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2053.3134687500005,"end":2054.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2054.5790937500005,"end":2056.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2056.48596875,"end":2058.1397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2058.4940937500005,"end":2059.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2059.91159375,"end":2062.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2062.5272187500004,"end":2062.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2063.21909375,"end":2067.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2067.48846875,"end":2068.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2068.3153437500005,"end":2070.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2071.11659375,"end":2074.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2074.3397187500004,"end":2079.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2079.7059687500005,"end":2085.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2085.7809687500003,"end":2089.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2089.96596875,"end":2091.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2091.73784375,"end":2094.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2095.1465937500006,"end":2096.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2096.6484687500006,"end":2099.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2099.7028437500003,"end":2101.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2101.8797187500004,"end":2103.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2103.73596875,"end":2105.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2106.26721875,"end":2109.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2110.9753437500003,"end":2112.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2113.3884687500004,"end":2117.7422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2118.4678437500006,"end":2124.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2124.7284687500005,"end":2127.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2127.52971875,"end":2128.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2128.49159375,"end":2134.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2135.2584687500002,"end":2142.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2143.18971875,"end":2143.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2144.10096875,"end":2146.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2147.30721875,"end":2149.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2150.31096875,"end":2152.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2152.90971875,"end":2153.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2154.27659375,"end":2156.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2156.63909375,"end":2157.6178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2158.6472187500003,"end":2163.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2163.5915937500004,"end":2164.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2164.95846875,"end":2165.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2166.93284375,"end":2167.5234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2167.6922187500004,"end":2170.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2170.96596875,"end":2172.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2173.0584687500004,"end":2177.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2177.8678437500002,"end":2181.8672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2182.30596875,"end":2182.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2183.1834687500004,"end":2186.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2187.8747187500003,"end":2194.2028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2194.65846875,"end":2196.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2196.27846875,"end":2197.8984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2197.9490937500004,"end":2199.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2200.09221875,"end":2202.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2203.5684687500006,"end":2207.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2207.2978437500005,"end":2209.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2209.5928437500006,"end":2215.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2215.56659375,"end":2224.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2225.8603437500005,"end":2226.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2227.14284375,"end":2231.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2232.32346875,"end":2232.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2233.35284375,"end":2235.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2236.37346875,"end":2239.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2240.17034375,"end":2240.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2240.9803437500004,"end":2244.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2245.53659375,"end":2246.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2246.2115937500002,"end":2249.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2249.5865937500002,"end":2250.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2251.08846875,"end":2254.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2254.98659375,"end":2257.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2258.80034375,"end":2262.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2263.13721875,"end":2264.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2264.52096875,"end":2268.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2271.9459687500002,"end":2275.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2286.62721875,"end":2296.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2296.4990937500006,"end":2301.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2302.3884687500004,"end":2308.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2308.91909375,"end":2312.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2313.27284375,"end":2322.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2322.8747187500003,"end":2326.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2326.72221875,"end":2330.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2331.04221875,"end":2336.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2336.3915937500005,"end":2343.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2343.69846875,"end":2359.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2359.5272187500004,"end":2363.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2363.84721875,"end":2366.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2366.8678437500002,"end":2373.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2373.73596875,"end":2378.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2378.61284375,"end":2380.8572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2381.19471875,"end":2391.7584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2392.16346875,"end":2398.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2398.86284375,"end":2404.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2404.8028437500006,"end":2418.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2419.5515937500004,"end":2438.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2438.85659375,"end":2441.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2441.26971875,"end":2445.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2446.0790937500005,"end":2451.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2451.29346875,"end":2469.2147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2469.9403437500005,"end":2487.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2488.1484687500006,"end":2498.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2499.13409375,"end":2501.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2501.98596875,"end":2504.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2504.5847187500003,"end":2547.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2547.90284375,"end":2564.3897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2564.71034375,"end":2577.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2578.51409375,"end":2584.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2584.82534375,"end":2585.4159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2585.4834687500006,"end":2594.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2594.83221875,"end":2598.8653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2599.2872187500006,"end":2600.3503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2600.6540937500004,"end":2623.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2623.65471875,"end":2651.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2651.14409375,"end":2687.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2695.96409375,"end":2704.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2704.2497187500003,"end":2705.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2706.3084687500004,"end":2708.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2708.62034375,"end":2711.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2712.06284375,"end":2715.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2715.87659375,"end":2716.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2716.21409375,"end":2717.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2718.01971875,"end":2726.8115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2728.8534687500005,"end":2734.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2745.2559687500006,"end":2748.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2748.6140937500004,"end":2749.3565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2754.0309687500003,"end":2754.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2754.0478437500005,"end":2754.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2754.7565937500003,"end":2763.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2763.46409375,"end":2822.9990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2824.0790937500005,"end":2834.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2834.9803437500004,"end":2838.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2839.1990937500004,"end":2842.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2842.9959687500004,"end":2843.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2843.6034687500005,"end":2844.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2844.3122187500003,"end":2844.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2844.4472187500005,"end":2844.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2844.46409375,"end":2844.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2844.48096875,"end":2849.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2849.8640937500004,"end":2850.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2850.92721875,"end":2852.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2852.8678437500002,"end":2858.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2858.92596875,"end":2860.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2860.19159375,"end":2909.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2861.52471875,"end":2862.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2911.01909375,"end":2912.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2913.3984687500006,"end":2919.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2919.7940937500007,"end":2921.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2921.49846875,"end":2926.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2926.42596875,"end":2926.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":2926.4765937500006,"end":2926.7128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2926.9490937500004,"end":2934.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2935.18409375,"end":2942.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2941.56284375,"end":2963.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2963.44971875,"end":2994.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2995.44471875,"end":3008.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3007.84784375,"end":3040.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3015.6103437500005,"end":3016.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3040.6190937500005,"end":3093.6065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3094.0284687500007,"end":3104.5584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3104.82846875,"end":3105.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3105.5709687500002,"end":3170.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3106.44846875,"end":3107.2247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3116.0840937500006,"end":3116.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3170.87721875,"end":3177.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3173.61096875,"end":3174.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3176.2772187500004,"end":3228.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3229.1297187500004,"end":3266.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3266.11971875,"end":3276.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3270.0515937500004,"end":3270.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3273.4940937500005,"end":3283.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3277.2909687500005,"end":3277.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3284.91846875,"end":3286.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3286.9265937500004,"end":3288.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3288.7490937500006,"end":3289.4747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3294.3515937500006,"end":3298.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3299.6334687500002,"end":3300.5615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3311.07471875,"end":3311.5978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3312.0197187500007,"end":3312.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3313.04909375,"end":3325.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3325.90784375,"end":3337.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3337.65284375,"end":3363.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3363.2353437500005,"end":3375.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3375.9422187500004,"end":3391.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3391.6190937500005,"end":3393.3065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3393.93096875,"end":3396.8165937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3397.18784375,"end":3401.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3401.6765937500004,"end":3409.4728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3409.8947187500007,"end":3413.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3413.35409375,"end":3419.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3419.85096875,"end":3422.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3423.1922187500004,"end":3456.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3456.3515937500006,"end":3484.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3472.7372187500005,"end":3473.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3475.7072187500007,"end":3476.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3476.02784375,"end":3477.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3485.30909375,"end":3500.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3501.15471875,"end":3505.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3505.49159375,"end":3512.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3513.38909375,"end":3517.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3518.14784375,"end":3521.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3521.9278437500006,"end":3526.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3526.5515937500004,"end":3527.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3527.07471875,"end":3529.2853437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3529.47096875,"end":3561.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3561.9384687500005,"end":3563.8115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3563.7272187500002,"end":3567.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3563.9297187500006,"end":3564.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3565.6678437500004,"end":3568.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3568.23284375,"end":3570.5615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3569.0934687500003,"end":3582.5597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3580.34909375,"end":3581.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3581.9353437500004,"end":3590.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3589.07346875,"end":3593.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3593.8828437500006,"end":3598.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3593.91659375,"end":3594.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3599.21534375,"end":3607.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3601.86471875,"end":3608.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3608.24346875,"end":3613.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3613.2215937500005,"end":3614.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3615.3478437500007,"end":3616.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3616.7147187500004,"end":3619.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3619.5497187500005,"end":3635.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3635.5809687500005,"end":3642.8203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3642.2634687500004,"end":3645.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3645.3347187500003,"end":3658.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3646.2628437500007,"end":3650.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3658.75034375,"end":3662.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3662.9353437500004,"end":3666.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3666.64784375,"end":3669.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3669.2128437500005,"end":3683.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3683.87721875,"end":3685.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3686.0203437500004,"end":3689.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3689.3447187500005,"end":3690.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3690.34034375,"end":3692.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3692.9728437500007,"end":3694.9472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3695.1159687500003,"end":3696.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3696.53346875,"end":3699.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3699.43596875,"end":3702.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3702.8953437500004,"end":3710.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3709.8984687500006,"end":3715.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3715.3153437500005,"end":3717.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3715.3659687500003,"end":3717.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3717.45846875,"end":3722.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3722.16659375,"end":3724.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3724.15784375,"end":3744.0197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3726.6384687500004,"end":3728.1065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3731.5997187500006,"end":3732.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3736.20659375,"end":3738.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3744.20534375,"end":3746.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3747.3778437500005,"end":3748.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3748.42409375,"end":3753.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3748.4747187500006,"end":3749.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3753.9590937500006,"end":3757.4015937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3756.3722187500007,"end":3758.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3758.07659375,"end":3758.4815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3758.5828437500004,"end":3758.5997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3758.75159375,"end":3762.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3761.9578437500004,"end":3767.1553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3768.3365937500002,"end":3768.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3768.97784375,"end":3769.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3769.0284687500007,"end":3769.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3772.0997187500006,"end":3773.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3776.21721875,"end":3778.0734687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3777.8709687500004,"end":3795.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":3779.4909687500003,"end":3780.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3794.42534375,"end":3803.2340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3798.57659375,"end":3799.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3799.9772187500002,"end":3800.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3800.07846875,"end":3800.9728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3800.9728437500007,"end":3801.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3801.0234687500006,"end":3801.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3801.9684687500003,"end":3803.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3803.3522187500002,"end":3819.2147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3803.82471875,"end":3803.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3816.17721875,"end":3816.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3816.8690937500005,"end":3829.1203437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3829.2890937500006,"end":3833.3390937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3833.5753437500007,"end":3839.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3839.9540937500005,"end":3851.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3851.3953437500004,"end":3852.6778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3852.7959687500006,"end":3870.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3864.01784375,"end":3866.6672187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3870.3965937500006,"end":3877.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3877.4840937500003,"end":3879.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3879.9647187500004,"end":3888.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3888.4022187500004,"end":3899.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3900.0965937500005,"end":3924.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3925.02096875,"end":3936.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3936.04034375,"end":3942.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3943.58346875,"end":3947.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3954.9572187500007,"end":3959.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3959.7159687500007,"end":3960.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3961.1503437500005,"end":3963.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3966.8709687500004,"end":3966.8878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3966.8878437500007,"end":3967.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3967.4109687500004,"end":3967.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3967.8328437500004,"end":3974.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3974.75159375,"end":3984.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3984.99471875,"end":3990.6309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3989.2809687500003,"end":3989.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3990.46221875,"end":3990.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3990.88409375,"end":3992.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3990.9178437500004,"end":3996.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3996.62159375,"end":4002.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3996.6384687500004,"end":3999.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4000.8065937500005,"end":4001.2284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4002.9159687500005,"end":4006.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4006.5272187500004,"end":4007.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4007.6747187500005,"end":4012.6359687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4012.93971875,"end":4019.1159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4017.9178437500004,"end":4025.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4026.08534375,"end":4027.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4027.3678437500002,"end":4032.0422187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4032.48096875,"end":4034.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4032.5147187500006,"end":4032.8690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4033.2909687500005,"end":4039.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4035.48471875,"end":4035.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4038.3365937500002,"end":4040.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4040.31096875,"end":4044.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4044.36096875,"end":4046.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4046.8078437500008,"end":4049.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4050.19971875,"end":4051.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4052.4609687500006,"end":4063.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4062.90659375,"end":4068.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4067.6484687500006,"end":4069.5890937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4068.5597187500007,"end":4072.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4073.0653437500005,"end":4081.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4082.4140937500006,"end":4083.9159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4084.37159375,"end":4085.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4086.1603437500007,"end":4088.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4088.8434687500003,"end":4104.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4105.5497187500005,"end":4116.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4106.764718750001,"end":4107.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4110.544718749999,"end":4110.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4115.11784375,"end":4119.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4120.112843749999,"end":4125.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4125.61409375,"end":4126.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4126.28909375,"end":4128.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4128.887843750001,"end":4136.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4136.194718750001,"end":4136.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4137.139718750001,"end":4144.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4138.33784375,"end":4139.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4145.30721875,"end":4153.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4153.37346875,"end":4154.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4155.66846875,"end":4173.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4167.34596875,"end":4168.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4173.741593750001,"end":4174.112843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4174.70346875,"end":4176.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4176.94784375,"end":4183.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4184.288468750001,"end":4186.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4186.954718749999,"end":4189.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4189.536593750001,"end":4200.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4201.905968749999,"end":4202.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4205.60159375,"end":4205.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4207.255343750001,"end":4207.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4207.964093750001,"end":4208.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4209.34784375,"end":4212.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4213.1278437500005,"end":4217.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4218.089093750001,"end":4220.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4220.991593750001,"end":4221.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4222.999718749999,"end":4242.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4242.557843750001,"end":4243.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4243.75596875,"end":4245.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4246.27034375,"end":4252.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4252.497218750001,"end":4253.847218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4253.948468750001,"end":4265.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4263.735968749999,"end":4266.689093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4265.35596875,"end":4266.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4266.975968750001,"end":4268.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4268.17409375,"end":4269.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4269.54096875,"end":4272.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4273.42221875,"end":4285.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4285.50471875,"end":4291.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4291.84971875,"end":4294.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4294.1278437500005,"end":4295.190968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4295.005343750001,"end":4302.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4296.10221875,"end":4296.642218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4296.692843750001,"end":4297.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4301.18159375,"end":4312.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4305.11346875,"end":4307.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4308.032843749999,"end":4308.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4308.825968749999,"end":4308.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4311.62721875,"end":4318.394093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4318.69784375,"end":4321.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4321.61721875,"end":4325.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4325.194718750001,"end":4331.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4331.97846875,"end":4333.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4334.25659375,"end":4346.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4347.01409375,"end":4366.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4366.55534375,"end":4379.565968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4376.427218750001,"end":4383.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4383.312218749999,"end":4384.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4384.999718749999,"end":4390.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4390.214093750001,"end":4392.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4392.6103437500005,"end":4393.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4393.99409375,"end":4395.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4396.305968750001,"end":4399.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4398.8709687499995,"end":4400.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4400.11971875,"end":4407.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4408.169093750001,"end":4413.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4413.467843750001,"end":4421.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4425.077843749999,"end":4428.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4437.7509687500005,"end":4442.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4442.2059687500005,"end":4443.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4448.12909375,"end":4448.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4448.16284375,"end":4448.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4448.17971875,"end":4448.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4448.196593750001,"end":4448.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4448.2303437499995,"end":4448.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4448.34846875,"end":4448.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4448.83784375,"end":4448.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4449.00659375,"end":4449.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4450.28909375,"end":4451.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4452.837218750001,"end":4453.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4454.30534375,"end":4455.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4456.00971875,"end":4457.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4458.4228437500005,"end":4459.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4460.329718749999,"end":4463.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4464.44721875,"end":4466.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4467.43409375,"end":4469.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4469.3915937500005,"end":4470.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4471.349093750001,"end":4472.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4473.05346875,"end":4473.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4474.55534375,"end":4477.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4477.66034375,"end":4480.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4480.7822187500005,"end":4482.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4483.65096875,"end":4487.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4487.667218750001,"end":4489.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4489.725968750001,"end":4491.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4492.257218750001,"end":4494.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4494.889718750001,"end":4496.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4496.77971875,"end":4499.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4499.36159375,"end":4500.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4501.33596875,"end":4502.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4503.040343750001,"end":4504.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4504.997843749999,"end":4506.550343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4507.073468750001,"end":4509.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4510.22909375,"end":4511.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4511.8153437500005,"end":4512.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4513.6884687500005,"end":4514.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4514.616593750001,"end":4518.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4519.257218750001,"end":4520.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4521.180968750001,"end":4522.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4523.239718750001,"end":4524.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4525.28159375,"end":4527.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4527.86346875,"end":4528.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4529.26409375,"end":4529.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4530.02346875,"end":4532.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4532.6053437499995,"end":4535.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4536.030968749999,"end":4537.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4537.60034375,"end":4539.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4539.3553437499995,"end":4542.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4542.595343749999,"end":4544.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4544.78909375,"end":4548.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4548.77159375,"end":4550.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4550.999093750001,"end":4552.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4552.83846875,"end":4556.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4556.78721875,"end":4560.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4561.630343750001,"end":4562.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4562.67659375,"end":4563.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4564.00971875,"end":4566.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4566.692843750001,"end":4568.329718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4569.20721875,"end":4570.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4570.50659375,"end":4571.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4571.78909375,"end":4575.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4575.552218750001,"end":4577.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4577.661593750001,"end":4580.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4580.73284375,"end":4582.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4583.68596875,"end":4585.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4585.255343750001,"end":4586.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4587.14534375,"end":4588.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4588.79909375,"end":4590.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4590.85784375,"end":4593.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4593.81096875,"end":4595.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4595.68409375,"end":4598.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4599.39659375,"end":4601.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4601.843468749999,"end":4603.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4604.44221875,"end":4606.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4607.294093750001,"end":4609.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4610.77034375,"end":4612.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4612.93034375,"end":4618.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4618.51596875,"end":4620.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4620.89534375,"end":4624.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4624.675343749999,"end":4627.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4627.999718749999,"end":4629.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4629.417218750001,"end":4630.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4631.374718749999,"end":4633.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4633.51784375,"end":4634.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4635.1209687499995,"end":4636.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4636.74096875,"end":4639.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4639.8290937500005,"end":4642.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4642.98471875,"end":4645.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4645.634093750001,"end":4650.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4650.966593749999,"end":4656.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4657.04159375,"end":4660.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4661.86784375,"end":4663.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4664.432843750001,"end":4668.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4668.48284375,"end":4670.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4670.8622187500005,"end":4672.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4672.61721875,"end":4675.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4675.55346875,"end":4677.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4677.510968750001,"end":4679.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4680.39659375,"end":4685.425343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4685.54346875,"end":4695.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4695.972218749999,"end":4699.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4699.532843749999,"end":4701.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4702.249718749999,"end":4703.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4703.17784375,"end":4703.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4704.780968749999,"end":4705.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4705.911593750001,"end":4706.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4707.464093750001,"end":4707.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4708.37534375,"end":4709.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4709.91096875,"end":4713.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4713.57284375,"end":4733.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4727.190968750001,"end":4727.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4731.05534375,"end":4731.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4733.95784375,"end":4741.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4738.17659375,"end":4738.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4742.17596875,"end":4747.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4747.69409375,"end":4749.314093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4748.58846875,"end":4748.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4749.21284375,"end":4754.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4754.41034375,"end":4754.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4754.427218750001,"end":4754.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4754.44409375,"end":4755.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4755.085343750001,"end":4762.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4755.186593750001,"end":4755.220343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4755.220343749999,"end":4755.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4763.202218750001,"end":4767.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4768.4334687499995,"end":4773.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4773.81659375,"end":4775.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4775.807843750001,"end":4781.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4782.085343750001,"end":4790.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4782.4228437500005,"end":4782.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4788.44721875,"end":4789.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4789.122218750001,"end":4789.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4790.151593750001,"end":4790.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4791.265343749999,"end":4796.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4793.17221875,"end":4793.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4796.39534375,"end":4796.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4796.935343749999,"end":4797.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4797.52596875,"end":4800.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4800.61409375,"end":4810.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4810.823468750001,"end":4814.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4815.29534375,"end":4817.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4818.045968750001,"end":4823.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4824.1209687499995,"end":4825.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4826.382218750001,"end":4828.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4828.997843749999,"end":4830.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4830.8709687499995,"end":4831.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4832.288468750001,"end":4833.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4833.95909375,"end":4834.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4835.25846875,"end":4844.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4845.38346875,"end":4848.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4849.09596875,"end":4853.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4853.702843749999,"end":4855.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4855.69409375,"end":4856.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4856.58846875,"end":4858.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4858.66409375,"end":4859.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4860.2840937500005,"end":4861.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4862.106593750001,"end":4863.642218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4865.5322187500005,"end":4867.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4867.37159375,"end":4867.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4867.725968750001,"end":4870.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4871.050343750001,"end":4878.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4878.930968750001,"end":4881.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4881.61409375,"end":4886.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4886.659718750001,"end":4886.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4886.91284375,"end":4887.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4887.975968750001,"end":4888.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4888.026593750001,"end":4888.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4888.36409375,"end":4894.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4895.11409375,"end":4897.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4897.13909375,"end":4897.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4897.155968749999,"end":4897.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4897.206593750001,"end":4897.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4897.29096875,"end":4897.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4897.29096875,"end":4898.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4897.32471875,"end":4897.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4898.91096875,"end":4899.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4899.9403437500005,"end":4900.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4900.93596875,"end":4901.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4901.526593750001,"end":4902.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4902.218468749999,"end":4902.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4902.57284375,"end":4904.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4902.5897187499995,"end":4902.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4904.749718749999,"end":4906.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4906.94346875,"end":4911.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4911.4490937499995,"end":4911.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4911.837218750001,"end":4912.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4913.0184687500005,"end":4914.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4914.72284375,"end":4918.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4918.823468750001,"end":4919.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4919.9540937500005,"end":4924.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4925.522843750001,"end":4927.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4927.93596875,"end":4929.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4929.99471875,"end":4931.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4931.5809687500005,"end":4932.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4933.302218750001,"end":4934.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4935.44534375,"end":4936.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4936.8290937500005,"end":4940.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4940.77784375,"end":4941.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4941.25034375,"end":4951.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4943.17409375,"end":4943.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4953.9403437500005,"end":4955.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4955.86409375,"end":4957.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4955.982218749999,"end":4956.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4957.97346875,"end":4958.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4958.96909375,"end":4959.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4959.20534375,"end":4960.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4961.97284375,"end":4961.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4961.989718750001,"end":4962.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4962.3778437500005,"end":4963.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4962.85034375,"end":4975.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4975.00034375,"end":4975.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4976.08034375,"end":4976.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4978.22346875,"end":4978.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4979.35409375,"end":4980.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4980.77159375,"end":4981.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4982.25659375,"end":4985.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4985.429093750001,"end":4985.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4985.749718749999,"end":4987.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4987.4540937500005,"end":4989.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4989.7997187500005,"end":4993.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4993.680968750001,"end":4994.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4995.19971875,"end":4996.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4995.48659375,"end":4995.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4996.93784375,"end":4997.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4997.03909375,"end":4997.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4997.140343749999,"end":4997.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4997.9334687499995,"end":5001.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4998.89534375,"end":5000.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5000.54909375,"end":5001.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5002.0340937500005,"end":5006.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5004.00846875,"end":5004.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5006.69159375,"end":5006.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5006.708468750001,"end":5006.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5006.894093750001,"end":5007.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5006.91096875,"end":5006.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5007.90659375,"end":5009.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5009.50971875,"end":5010.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5010.927218750001,"end":5012.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5012.901593750001,"end":5013.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5013.15471875,"end":5016.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5017.66034375,"end":5027.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5025.0009687500005,"end":5025.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5025.11909375,"end":5025.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5025.2372187500005,"end":5025.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5027.937218749999,"end":5029.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5029.89471875,"end":5032.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5032.628468750001,"end":5033.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5033.6747187500005,"end":5034.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5034.974093750001,"end":5035.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":5035.17659375,"end":5035.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5038.534718750001,"end":5041.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5048.06909375,"end":5050.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5051.190968750001,"end":5052.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5057.87346875,"end":5057.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5057.9072187500005,"end":5058.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5058.86909375,"end":5066.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5064.53909375,"end":5064.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5066.479718750001,"end":5081.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5081.700968749999,"end":5092.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5093.59784375,"end":5098.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5098.7615937499995,"end":5103.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5103.4697187500005,"end":5104.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5104.482218749999,"end":5108.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5108.63346875,"end":5110.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5110.69221875,"end":5113.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5113.74659375,"end":5114.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5114.91096875,"end":5116.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5116.9022187499995,"end":5122.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5121.458468750001,"end":5161.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5162.54909375,"end":5164.017218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5164.388468749999,"end":5171.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5164.69221875,"end":5165.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5171.83034375,"end":5194.814093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5195.286593750001,"end":5200.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5200.61909375,"end":5206.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5206.7615937499995,"end":5216.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5216.86971875,"end":5225.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5224.919093750001,"end":5234.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5232.71534375,"end":5233.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5234.0653437500005,"end":5234.470343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5234.385968750001,"end":5309.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5237.17034375,"end":5237.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5240.03909375,"end":5240.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5310.171593749999,"end":5313.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5313.86721875,"end":5316.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5316.34784375,"end":5318.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5318.389718750001,"end":5334.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5320.262843750001,"end":5320.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5334.52221875,"end":5336.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5336.614718750001,"end":5372.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5336.935343749999,"end":5337.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5371.7822187500005,"end":5372.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5372.59221875,"end":5376.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5373.72284375,"end":5374.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5376.25409375,"end":5401.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5401.026593750001,"end":5407.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5407.28721875,"end":5408.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5407.911593750001,"end":5428.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5411.32034375,"end":5413.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5420.39909375,"end":5421.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5427.840968750001,"end":5449.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5444.192843750001,"end":5444.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5444.73284375,"end":5444.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5446.57221875,"end":5446.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5446.589093750001,"end":5447.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5449.542218750001,"end":5451.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5450.048468749999,"end":5450.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5451.21284375,"end":5481.267218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5477.11596875,"end":5478.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5480.389718750001,"end":5480.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5481.267218749999,"end":5501.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5492.53971875,"end":5493.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5493.029093749999,"end":5493.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5501.44971875,"end":5507.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5501.466593749999,"end":5501.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5502.47909375,"end":5503.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5507.64284375,"end":5507.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5507.659718750001,"end":5507.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5507.77784375,"end":5530.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5530.98096875,"end":5543.704718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5537.68034375,"end":5538.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5543.68784375,"end":5575.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5575.3622187500005,"end":5575.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5575.42971875,"end":5576.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5576.44221875,"end":5582.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5579.665343750001,"end":5580.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5582.432843750001,"end":5591.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5591.83221875,"end":5598.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5598.02534375,"end":5603.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5599.79721875,"end":5601.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5602.5478437500005,"end":5607.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5605.872218750001,"end":5608.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5608.0322187500005,"end":5609.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5609.36534375,"end":5609.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5611.913468750001,"end":5615.845343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5625.86909375,"end":5629.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5630.374718749999,"end":5631.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5634.930968750001,"end":5658.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5658.977843750001,"end":5658.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5661.39096875,"end":5667.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5667.61784375,"end":5668.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5669.27159375,"end":5671.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5671.38096875,"end":5673.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5673.085343750001,"end":5676.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5677.118468750001,"end":5678.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5679.34596875,"end":5681.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5681.72534375,"end":5685.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5684.22284375,"end":5687.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5687.3447187500005,"end":5708.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5693.284718750001,"end":5693.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5702.144093750001,"end":5702.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5702.3465937500005,"end":5702.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5708.2528437500005,"end":5709.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5709.75471875,"end":5710.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5711.49284375,"end":5721.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5717.669093750001,"end":5717.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5717.753468750001,"end":5718.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5718.0740937499995,"end":5718.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5718.968468749999,"end":5719.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5719.00221875,"end":5719.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5719.120343750001,"end":5719.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5721.550343750001,"end":5725.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5725.75221875,"end":5732.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5732.73846875,"end":5737.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5737.530968749999,"end":5745.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5746.03596875,"end":5746.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5746.069718750001,"end":5747.048468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5747.2509687500005,"end":5755.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5755.55346875,"end":5755.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5755.907843749999,"end":5755.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5755.97534375,"end":5768.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5768.02409375,"end":5775.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5775.95534375,"end":5780.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5780.427218750001,"end":5788.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5788.965968750001,"end":5814.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5813.60346875,"end":5813.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5814.16034375,"end":5814.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5814.784718750001,"end":5814.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5815.1728437500005,"end":5815.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5816.69159375,"end":5816.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5816.708468750001,"end":5823.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5816.7928437499995,"end":5817.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5817.75471875,"end":5817.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5822.46284375,"end":5822.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5823.9647187499995,"end":5824.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5825.618468750001,"end":5826.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5826.833468750001,"end":5829.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5826.85034375,"end":5827.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5830.022843750001,"end":5832.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5831.40659375,"end":5840.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5840.26596875,"end":5840.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5840.31659375,"end":5840.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5840.82284375,"end":5841.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5841.970343750001,"end":5842.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5842.122218750001,"end":5842.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5842.27409375,"end":5842.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5842.29096875,"end":5842.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5842.32471875,"end":5842.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5842.79721875,"end":5843.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5843.202218750001,"end":5843.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5843.69159375,"end":5859.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5844.34971875,"end":5844.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5859.452843749999,"end":5860.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5860.397843750001,"end":5860.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5861.190968750001,"end":5864.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5865.089093750001,"end":5869.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5868.3290937500005,"end":5868.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5870.2528437500005,"end":5878.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5878.538468750001,"end":5880.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5881.42409375,"end":5883.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5883.786593750001,"end":5888.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5889.72659375,"end":5902.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5903.17596875,"end":5903.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5904.5428437499995,"end":5919.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5920.0340937500005,"end":5921.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5920.05096875,"end":5920.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5922.63284375,"end":5932.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5929.635968750001,"end":5929.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5929.78784375,"end":5929.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5932.673468750001,"end":5935.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5935.727843750001,"end":5940.689093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5940.8240937499995,"end":5942.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5946.831593750001,"end":5952.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5957.513468749999,"end":5960.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5960.7197187500005,"end":5961.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5969.69721875,"end":5969.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5969.73096875,"end":5970.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5970.91221875,"end":5988.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5989.08659375,"end":5989.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5989.84596875,"end":5991.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5992.32659375,"end":5993.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5994.57096875,"end":6045.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6045.9384687500005,"end":6056.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6056.02971875,"end":6057.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6058.155968749999,"end":6059.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6060.2822187500005,"end":6067.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6067.589093750001,"end":6074.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6074.811593750001,"end":6092.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6092.142218750001,"end":6149.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6149.02784375,"end":6149.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6149.331593750001,"end":6149.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6149.97284375,"end":6165.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6165.919718749999,"end":6175.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6176.567843750001,"end":6205.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6178.93034375,"end":6179.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6205.542218750001,"end":6206.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6206.757218750001,"end":6206.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6206.79096875,"end":6206.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6206.87534375,"end":6206.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6206.993468750001,"end":6207.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6207.263468749999,"end":6227.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6213.20346875,"end":6214.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6217.75971875,"end":6220.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6225.8934687500005,"end":6237.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6232.50846875,"end":6263.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6243.15659375,"end":6245.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6264.4697187500005,"end":6268.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6267.20346875,"end":6269.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6269.73471875,"end":6269.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6271.33784375,"end":6285.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6271.75971875,"end":6274.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6284.2978437500005,"end":6290.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6286.60971875,"end":6295.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6296.26221875,"end":6312.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6305.982218749999,"end":6309.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6309.1884687500005,"end":6309.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6309.5428437499995,"end":6310.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6312.175343750001,"end":6315.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6317.40659375,"end":6320.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6321.372218750001,"end":6323.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6324.460343750001,"end":6333.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6327.05909375,"end":6327.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6332.475968750001,"end":6340.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6340.23846875,"end":6347.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6347.64659375,"end":6348.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6349.671593749999,"end":6353.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6353.02971875,"end":6360.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6360.876593750001,"end":6377.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6371.87909375,"end":6456.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6392.382218750001,"end":6395.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6456.49034375,"end":6474.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6475.37346875,"end":6490.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6490.965968750001,"end":6504.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6502.154093749999,"end":6507.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6504.600968750001,"end":6509.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6509.714093750001,"end":6520.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6520.024718750001,"end":6520.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6520.04159375,"end":6520.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6520.17659375,"end":6534.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6520.294718749999,"end":6520.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6528.15846875,"end":6529.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6529.305968750001,"end":6529.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6529.575968749999,"end":6544.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6540.25784375,"end":6543.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6543.970343750001,"end":6544.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6545.92784375,"end":6548.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6549.319718750001,"end":6549.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6549.33659375,"end":6549.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6549.35346875,"end":6549.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6549.67409375,"end":6560.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6549.690968750001,"end":6550.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6560.895968750001,"end":6568.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6569.0634687500005,"end":6590.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6582.327218750001,"end":6594.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6591.15284375,"end":6592.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6592.0809687500005,"end":6594.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6595.52346875,"end":6603.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6596.08034375,"end":6601.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6603.77534375,"end":6621.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6608.83784375,"end":6611.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6621.983468750001,"end":6636.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6637.3397187499995,"end":6638.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6638.841593749999,"end":6648.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6647.802218750001,"end":6649.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6648.966593749999,"end":6649.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6649.067843750001,"end":6649.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6649.202843749999,"end":6651.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6649.2197187500005,"end":6649.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6649.75971875,"end":6649.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6652.358468750001,"end":6654.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6654.9403437500005,"end":6667.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6664.964093750001,"end":6689.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6668.6259687500005,"end":6673.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6674.49846875,"end":6678.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6684.134093750001,"end":6689.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6690.1415937500005,"end":6695.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6691.727843750001,"end":6695.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6697.27971875,"end":6702.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6702.81471875,"end":6711.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6702.882218750001,"end":6705.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6705.970343750001,"end":6710.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6711.454718750001,"end":6713.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6714.036593750001,"end":6715.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6715.538468750001,"end":6716.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6717.124718749999,"end":6734.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6734.48909375,"end":6787.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6735.38346875,"end":6739.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6740.26034375,"end":6740.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6740.2772187499995,"end":6740.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6740.3447187500005,"end":6741.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6741.644093750001,"end":6742.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6742.13346875,"end":6742.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6742.23471875,"end":6743.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6743.702843749999,"end":6743.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6762.315968750001,"end":6767.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6778.93784375,"end":6781.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6782.63346875,"end":6787.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6788.7928437499995,"end":6792.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6792.72471875,"end":6793.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6794.091593749999,"end":6796.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6794.108468750001,"end":6797.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6797.26409375,"end":6801.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6798.39471875,"end":6800.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6801.702218750001,"end":6804.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6803.87909375,"end":6806.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6805.88721875,"end":6808.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6808.41846875,"end":6810.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6809.26221875,"end":6817.345343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6812.198468750001,"end":6819.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6820.298468750001,"end":6822.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6822.559718750001,"end":6835.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6823.859093749999,"end":6827.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6828.16221875,"end":6829.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6830.288468750001,"end":6832.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6834.0009687500005,"end":6835.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6835.772843750001,"end":6835.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6836.279093749999,"end":6845.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6846.083468750001,"end":6848.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6848.96909375,"end":6851.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6861.929093750001,"end":6867.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6868.32471875,"end":6871.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6874.534718750001,"end":6875.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6875.7665937500005,"end":6876.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6877.15034375,"end":6877.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6878.280968749999,"end":6881.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6882.364718750001,"end":6886.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6886.85346875,"end":6887.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6887.64659375,"end":6905.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6906.00659375,"end":6912.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6912.99284375,"end":6913.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6914.03909375,"end":6916.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6916.907843750001,"end":6920.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6921.80159375,"end":6924.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6923.45534375,"end":6928.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6928.23096875,"end":6928.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6929.17596875,"end":6931.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6931.487843750001,"end":6932.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6932.2978437500005,"end":6934.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6934.440968750001,"end":6935.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6935.58846875,"end":6940.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6940.5497187500005,"end":6944.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6944.279093749999,"end":6947.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6947.620343750001,"end":6947.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6948.02534375,"end":6952.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6953.30721875,"end":6954.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6954.842843750001,"end":6955.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6956.41221875,"end":6958.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6959.044718749999,"end":6963.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6962.50409375,"end":6962.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6963.415343750001,"end":6965.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6966.233468750001,"end":6968.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6968.477843750001,"end":6970.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6970.80659375,"end":6972.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6972.81471875,"end":6973.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6973.42221875,"end":6974.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6974.73846875,"end":6977.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6977.944718750001,"end":6980.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6981.1678437499995,"end":6987.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6988.862843750001,"end":6995.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6996.25409375,"end":6999.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6999.49409375,"end":6999.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6999.966593749999,"end":7001.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7002.00846875,"end":7008.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7008.606593750001,"end":7018.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7019.22096875,"end":7026.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7027.27034375,"end":7033.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7033.4803437499995,"end":7035.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7035.5897187499995,"end":7038.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7038.10409375,"end":7038.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7038.86346875,"end":7042.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7042.93034375,"end":7046.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7046.6259687500005,"end":7052.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7053.34221875,"end":7054.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7054.962218750001,"end":7056.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7056.970343750001,"end":7057.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7057.155968750001,"end":7058.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7058.995343750001,"end":7062.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7063.062218750001,"end":7074.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7074.790343750001,"end":7075.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7075.51596875,"end":7075.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7075.634093750001,"end":7075.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7075.718468750001,"end":7081.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7081.2197187500005,"end":7081.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7081.75971875,"end":7081.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7081.84409375,"end":7087.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7081.860968750001,"end":7083.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7086.923468750001,"end":7087.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7087.9697187500005,"end":7091.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7092.458468750001,"end":7098.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7098.71909375,"end":7102.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7103.02221875,"end":7103.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7104.47346875,"end":7105.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7105.51971875,"end":7108.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7108.304093750001,"end":7109.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7109.654093749999,"end":7111.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7111.864718750001,"end":7116.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7116.35346875,"end":7116.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7117.14659375,"end":7117.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7119.374093750001,"end":7122.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7122.52971875,"end":7125.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7125.9384687500005,"end":7128.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7128.62159375,"end":7130.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7130.984093750001,"end":7132.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7132.80659375,"end":7136.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7137.21096875,"end":7142.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7141.66596875,"end":7141.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7141.83471875,"end":7142.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7142.003468750001,"end":7142.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7143.0497187500005,"end":7143.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7144.214093750001,"end":7148.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7146.559718750001,"end":7146.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7149.10784375,"end":7154.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7155.11534375,"end":7159.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7159.51971875,"end":7161.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7162.169093750001,"end":7166.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7166.607218749999,"end":7169.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7169.91471875,"end":7172.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7173.137843750001,"end":7181.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7181.997218750001,"end":7185.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7185.456593750001,"end":7188.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7188.6122187500005,"end":7196.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7196.560343749999,"end":7200.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7201.04909375,"end":7219.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7219.679093750001,"end":7222.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7222.395968750001,"end":7225.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7225.41659375,"end":7225.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7227.94784375,"end":7228.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7235.64284375,"end":7241.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7248.231593750001,"end":7252.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7248.501593750001,"end":7249.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7249.210343750001,"end":7249.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7253.243468750001,"end":7254.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7259.858468750001,"end":7259.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7259.892218750001,"end":7260.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7260.48284375,"end":7262.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7262.50784375,"end":7267.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7268.31284375,"end":7269.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7270.304093750001,"end":7275.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7275.9403437500005,"end":7281.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7282.0322187500005,"end":7283.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7283.50034375,"end":7285.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7285.66034375,"end":7285.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7286.385968750001,"end":7287.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7287.80346875,"end":7289.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7289.69346875,"end":7291.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7291.61721875,"end":7293.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7294.030343750001,"end":7295.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7295.717843750001,"end":7296.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7297.5740937499995,"end":7299.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7299.514718750001,"end":7300.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7301.11784375,"end":7302.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7302.99096875,"end":7304.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7305.083468750001,"end":7306.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7306.349093750001,"end":7307.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7308.07034375,"end":7309.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7309.97721875,"end":7312.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7312.390343750001,"end":7312.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7312.79534375,"end":7315.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7315.56284375,"end":7317.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7317.503468750001,"end":7318.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7319.49471875,"end":7320.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7320.76034375,"end":7322.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7322.92034375,"end":7324.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7324.675343750001,"end":7325.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7326.66659375,"end":7327.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7327.74659375,"end":7328.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7329.552218750001,"end":7330.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7330.5478437500005,"end":7335.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7336.437218750001,"end":7338.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7338.782843750001,"end":7339.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7340.31846875,"end":7341.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7341.66846875,"end":7344.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7344.95909375,"end":7345.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7346.342843750001,"end":7347.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7347.642218750001,"end":7348.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7349.194718750001,"end":7352.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7353.227843750001,"end":7356.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7357.42971875,"end":7361.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7361.935343749999,"end":7365.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7366.28909375,"end":7367.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7368.837218750001,"end":7369.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7371.35159375,"end":7372.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7373.41034375,"end":7374.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7375.671593750001,"end":7377.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7377.34221875,"end":7378.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7378.52346875,"end":7380.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7381.22346875,"end":7382.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7383.029093749999,"end":7383.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7384.024718750001,"end":7385.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7387.770968750001,"end":7389.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7390.23471875,"end":7391.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7391.87159375,"end":7393.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7394.0653437500005,"end":7397.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7398.33471875,"end":7399.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7400.64659375,"end":7402.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7403.515343750001,"end":7405.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7405.810343749999,"end":7407.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7408.32471875,"end":7409.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7410.53534375,"end":7411.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7412.8134687500005,"end":7413.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7413.319718750001,"end":7413.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7414.7372187500005,"end":7416.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7416.779093749999,"end":7417.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7417.94346875,"end":7418.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7419.3778437500005,"end":7421.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7422.7528437500005,"end":7426.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7426.9715937500005,"end":7435.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7435.729718750001,"end":7449.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7450.1747187500005,"end":7462.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7462.341593749999,"end":7471.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7471.99409375,"end":7472.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7473.124718750001,"end":7477.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7477.680968750001,"end":7479.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7480.51596875,"end":7483.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7483.41846875,"end":7485.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7486.202843750001,"end":7488.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7488.66659375,"end":7492.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7492.61534375,"end":7493.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7493.560343749999,"end":7495.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7495.61909375,"end":7497.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7497.779093749999,"end":7504.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7504.32659375,"end":7514.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7509.86159375,"end":7510.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7510.28346875,"end":7510.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7514.53596875,"end":7529.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7519.868468750001,"end":7520.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7521.4715937500005,"end":7521.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7523.31096875,"end":7525.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7529.95971875,"end":7531.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7531.866593750001,"end":7534.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7535.03909375,"end":7535.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7535.46096875,"end":7539.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7540.118468750001,"end":7542.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7542.734093750001,"end":7548.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7548.80909375,"end":7552.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7549.28159375,"end":7549.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7550.327843750001,"end":7550.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7550.614718750001,"end":7550.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7550.6990937499995,"end":7550.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7552.74096875,"end":7553.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7554.20909375,"end":7555.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7558.41096875,"end":7566.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7559.524718750001,"end":7559.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7559.609093750001,"end":7559.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7559.659718750001,"end":7559.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7566.831593750001,"end":7570.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7570.29096875,"end":7572.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7572.34971875,"end":7572.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7572.653468750001,"end":7576.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7576.41659375,"end":7580.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7580.382218750001,"end":7586.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7586.659718750001,"end":7587.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7587.975968750001,"end":7588.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7589.17409375,"end":7594.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7594.5740937499995,"end":7597.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7598.03346875,"end":7601.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7601.45909375,"end":7604.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7604.800343750001,"end":7606.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7606.538468750001,"end":7607.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7608.24284375,"end":7610.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7610.284718750001,"end":7611.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7611.685343749999,"end":7613.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7614.030968750001,"end":7617.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7617.372218750001,"end":7618.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7618.637843750001,"end":7619.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7620.139718750001,"end":7620.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7621.37159375,"end":7621.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7621.69221875,"end":7621.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7621.84409375,"end":7629.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7628.27346875,"end":7628.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7628.340968750001,"end":7628.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7628.610968750001,"end":7628.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7629.5897187499995,"end":7641.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7630.298468750001,"end":7630.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7642.212218750001,"end":7644.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7645.0809687500005,"end":7649.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7650.10971875,"end":7654.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7654.260968750001,"end":7657.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7654.294718749999,"end":7654.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7658.192843750001,"end":7673.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7664.099093750001,"end":7664.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7664.4872187500005,"end":7664.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7665.39846875,"end":7665.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7665.415343750001,"end":7665.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7665.43221875,"end":7665.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7671.94596875,"end":7672.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7673.1103437500005,"end":7673.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7673.144093750001,"end":7673.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7673.17784375,"end":7673.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7673.97096875,"end":7677.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7677.34596875,"end":7679.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7678.544093750001,"end":7679.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7684.75409375,"end":7689.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7696.27971875,"end":7698.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7696.51596875,"end":7696.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7699.84034375,"end":7700.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7707.231593750001,"end":7716.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7716.310343749999,"end":7724.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7724.612843750001,"end":7736.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7737.134093750001,"end":7750.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7750.482218749999,"end":7770.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7771.27221875,"end":7780.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7780.637843750001,"end":7787.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7787.3709687499995,"end":7790.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7790.999093750001,"end":7796.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7796.618468750001,"end":7799.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7799.97659375,"end":7800.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7800.58409375,"end":7800.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7800.76971875,"end":7800.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7800.82034375,"end":7811.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7811.21534375,"end":7817.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7817.610968750001,"end":7827.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7817.77971875,"end":7819.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7827.651593750001,"end":7828.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7827.685343749999,"end":7828.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7828.83284375,"end":7828.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7828.967843750001,"end":7834.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7834.80659375,"end":7838.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7835.515343750001,"end":7835.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7838.02971875,"end":7838.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7838.97471875,"end":7840.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7840.03784375,"end":7848.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7846.247843749999,"end":7859.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7852.154093749999,"end":7852.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7854.71909375,"end":7856.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7859.54534375,"end":7900.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7859.562218750001,"end":7860.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7860.034718750001,"end":7860.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7865.58659375,"end":7865.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7865.620343750001,"end":7865.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7865.755343750001,"end":7865.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7880.95971875,"end":7882.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7883.50784375,"end":7883.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7901.243468750001,"end":7902.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7903.774718750001,"end":7905.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7908.314093750001,"end":7915.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7912.3134687500005,"end":7916.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7915.874093750001,"end":7926.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7925.72909375,"end":7938.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7938.85784375,"end":7943.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7938.99284375,"end":7940.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7940.44409375,"end":7940.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7942.60409375,"end":7964.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7959.597218750001,"end":7959.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7959.66471875,"end":7960.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7961.234093750001,"end":7976.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7965.638468749999,"end":7966.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7972.405343750001,"end":7976.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7976.16846875,"end":7976.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7976.50596875,"end":7980.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7976.53971875,"end":7984.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7985.02784375,"end":8002.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8002.729718750001,"end":8012.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8012.702843750001,"end":8016.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8017.680968750001,"end":8027.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8021.41034375,"end":8021.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8027.569718750001,"end":8064.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8036.513468750001,"end":8037.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8038.0322187500005,"end":8038.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8057.185343750001,"end":8059.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8064.9647187499995,"end":8078.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8079.089093750001,"end":8096.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8095.356593750001,"end":8099.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8096.87534375,"end":8097.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8099.91284375,"end":8100.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8099.92971875,"end":8100.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8100.419093750001,"end":8101.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8100.604718750001,"end":8101.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8101.56659375,"end":8103.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8101.954718750001,"end":8112.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8113.294718750001,"end":8130.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8130.81096875,"end":8134.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8134.962218750001,"end":8135.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8135.02971875,"end":8135.232218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8135.232218750001,"end":8135.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8135.31659375,"end":8135.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8135.97471875,"end":8136.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8136.02534375,"end":8137.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8136.227843750001,"end":8171.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8171.88471875,"end":8181.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8181.53721875,"end":8223.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8192.30346875,"end":8193.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8223.89346875,"end":8225.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8225.024093750002,"end":8230.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8231.09909375,"end":8237.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8237.511593750001,"end":8241.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8241.56159375,"end":8246.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8246.52284375,"end":8258.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8255.83784375,"end":8270.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8272.071593749999,"end":8277.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8276.03721875,"end":8281.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8281.437218750001,"end":8288.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8283.20909375,"end":8283.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8286.887843750003,"end":8293.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8290.735343750002,"end":8292.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8292.38909375,"end":8293.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8297.890343750001,"end":8304.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8306.42909375,"end":8313.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8314.714718750001,"end":8317.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8317.769093750001,"end":8318.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8323.18596875,"end":8323.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8323.70909375,"end":8323.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8324.33346875,"end":8327.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8327.55659375,"end":8330.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8330.88096875,"end":8335.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8335.47096875,"end":8347.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8342.06909375,"end":8344.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8347.53659375,"end":8352.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8353.122218750003,"end":8355.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8356.34534375,"end":8356.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8357.03721875,"end":8358.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8358.809093750002,"end":8359.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8359.500968750002,"end":8369.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8369.54159375,"end":8370.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8371.16159375,"end":8371.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8371.95471875,"end":8379.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8378.24909375,"end":8378.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8379.953468750002,"end":8380.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8380.577843750001,"end":8388.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8388.660968750002,"end":8396.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8397.300968750002,"end":8398.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8398.85346875,"end":8399.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8400.23721875,"end":8403.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8403.91596875,"end":8408.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8408.23596875,"end":8412.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8408.40471875,"end":8408.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8408.421593750001,"end":8408.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8411.374718750001,"end":8411.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8412.657218750002,"end":8412.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8412.84284375,"end":8414.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8415.137843750003,"end":8425.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8425.296593750001,"end":8428.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8428.28346875,"end":8430.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8430.29159375,"end":8458.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8459.417843750001,"end":8477.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8477.91284375,"end":8483.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8483.464718750001,"end":8486.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8485.540343750003,"end":8490.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8490.231593750003,"end":8493.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8494.04534375,"end":8505.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8503.613468750002,"end":8504.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8506.245968750001,"end":8506.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8506.75221875,"end":8513.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8514.312218750001,"end":8518.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8519.99909375,"end":8520.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8520.92721875,"end":8526.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8526.79971875,"end":8527.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8527.339718750001,"end":8530.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8530.765343750001,"end":8531.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8530.765343750001,"end":8533.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8533.718468750001,"end":8546.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8537.903468750003,"end":8537.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8537.92034375,"end":8538.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8544.653468750003,"end":8545.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8546.070968750002,"end":8557.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8555.58846875,"end":8556.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8557.309718750003,"end":8572.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8572.21034375,"end":8572.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8573.374718750001,"end":8581.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8581.879718750002,"end":8582.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8582.976593750001,"end":8583.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8583.415343750003,"end":8583.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8583.43221875,"end":8583.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8583.80346875,"end":8584.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8584.02284375,"end":8584.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8584.664093750001,"end":8584.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8584.84971875,"end":8587.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8586.48659375,"end":8587.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8588.359718750002,"end":8588.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8588.460968750001,"end":8588.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8588.84909375,"end":8589.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8589.54096875,"end":8590.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8590.03034375,"end":8590.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8591.211593750002,"end":8592.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8595.91971875,"end":8598.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8599.159718750001,"end":8621.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8604.914093750001,"end":8605.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8606.06159375,"end":8607.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8622.312218750001,"end":8623.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8622.362843750001,"end":8635.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8631.559718750003,"end":8632.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8635.710968750001,"end":8647.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8644.23284375,"end":8645.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8646.66284375,"end":8649.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8648.02971875,"end":8648.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8648.99159375,"end":8662.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8656.062218750001,"end":8656.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8656.129718750002,"end":8656.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8663.04846875,"end":8673.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8670.422843750002,"end":8692.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8682.03284375,"end":8682.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8682.04971875,"end":8682.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8682.79221875,"end":8682.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8684.496593750002,"end":8684.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8684.547218750002,"end":8685.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8685.62721875,"end":8685.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8692.309718750003,"end":8696.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8694.63846875,"end":8695.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8696.49471875,"end":8696.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8696.511593750001,"end":8698.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8696.69721875,"end":8700.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8700.29159375,"end":8713.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8700.93284375,"end":8702.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8704.527218750001,"end":8705.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8714.21346875,"end":8720.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8714.247218750003,"end":8714.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8720.42346875,"end":8721.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8720.96346875,"end":8724.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8722.90409375,"end":8723.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8723.69721875,"end":8729.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8727.780968750001,"end":8730.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8731.30784375,"end":8732.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8731.93221875,"end":8732.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8732.961593750002,"end":8732.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8733.164093750001,"end":8735.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8734.868468750003,"end":8747.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8736.04971875,"end":8736.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8741.98971875,"end":8743.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8743.57596875,"end":8743.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8743.62659375,"end":8743.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8743.69409375,"end":8745.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8746.512218750002,"end":8749.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8749.43159375,"end":8752.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8750.42721875,"end":8751.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8752.367843750002,"end":8756.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8755.894718750002,"end":8777.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8759.97846875,"end":8760.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8773.562843750002,"end":8774.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8777.477843750003,"end":8791.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8777.730968750002,"end":8777.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8789.847218750001,"end":8794.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8792.277218750001,"end":8793.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8794.386593750001,"end":8801.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8801.609093750001,"end":8805.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8805.81096875,"end":8826.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8826.63471875,"end":8827.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8833.722218750001,"end":8834.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8835.257843750001,"end":8855.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8855.49096875,"end":8863.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8864.114093750002,"end":8865.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8866.30784375,"end":8878.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8870.644718750002,"end":8870.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8870.965343750002,"end":8871.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8871.167843750001,"end":8871.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8878.019093750001,"end":8878.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8878.289093750001,"end":8879.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8879.85846875,"end":8896.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8883.38534375,"end":8883.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8883.419093750003,"end":8883.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8883.43596875,"end":8883.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8883.672218750002,"end":8883.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8883.68909375,"end":8883.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8885.730968750002,"end":8885.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8885.74784375,"end":8886.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8886.355343750001,"end":8886.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8896.31159375,"end":8904.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8901.610343750002,"end":8901.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8904.78284375,"end":8927.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8912.089718750001,"end":8912.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8913.13596875,"end":8914.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8918.23221875,"end":8918.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8926.88909375,"end":8927.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8927.78346875,"end":8939.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8932.32284375,"end":8933.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8933.250968750002,"end":8933.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8939.91659375,"end":8940.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8940.27096875,"end":8940.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8940.43971875,"end":8942.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8941.215968750003,"end":8941.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8941.23284375,"end":8941.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8941.317218750002,"end":8941.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8941.40159375,"end":8941.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8943.02159375,"end":8943.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8943.055343750002,"end":8945.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8945.70471875,"end":8953.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8950.581593750001,"end":8951.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8953.72034375,"end":8957.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8957.26409375,"end":8965.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8962.259093750003,"end":8962.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8962.27596875,"end":8962.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8966.12346875,"end":8970.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8969.80221875,"end":8977.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8974.44284375,"end":8975.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8975.97846875,"end":8976.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8977.969718750002,"end":8986.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8982.03659375,"end":8982.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8984.48346875,"end":8990.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8990.47409375,"end":8991.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8991.824093750001,"end":8996.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8996.02596875,"end":8996.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8996.70096875,"end":9017.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8996.76846875,"end":8996.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8999.14784375,"end":8999.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9000.39659375,"end":9000.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9003.687218750001,"end":9004.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9017.01846875,"end":9017.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9017.71034375,"end":9017.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9017.79471875,"end":9024.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9018.351593750001,"end":9018.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9024.93284375,"end":9026.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9026.45159375,"end":9027.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9029.067218750002,"end":9029.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9029.60721875,"end":9029.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9030.855968750002,"end":9030.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9030.87284375,"end":9031.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9031.902218750001,"end":9032.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9033.42096875,"end":9039.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9039.74909375,"end":9043.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9043.664093750001,"end":9045.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9045.469718750002,"end":9046.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9047.12346875,"end":9047.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9047.562218750001,"end":9054.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9049.840343750002,"end":9051.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9052.995968750001,"end":9055.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9054.97034375,"end":9055.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9055.544093750003,"end":9055.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9056.421593750001,"end":9056.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9057.02909375,"end":9059.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9062.294093750003,"end":9065.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9064.386593750001,"end":9064.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9071.524718750003,"end":9073.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9073.80284375,"end":9074.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9074.477843750003,"end":9076.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9076.06409375,"end":9080.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9080.097218750001,"end":9082.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9082.274093750002,"end":9083.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9083.97846875,"end":9084.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9103.97534375,"end":9107.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9107.72159375,"end":9109.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9108.44721875,"end":9110.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9110.25284375,"end":9110.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9110.387843750003,"end":9110.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9110.72534375,"end":9111.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9112.851593750001,"end":9121.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9116.26034375,"end":9116.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9119.78721875,"end":9120.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9122.031593750002,"end":9126.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9122.89221875,"end":9123.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9127.39784375,"end":9128.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9174.36096875,"end":9174.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9175.96409375,"end":9176.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9178.343468750001,"end":9180.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9180.672218750002,"end":9183.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9189.97034375,"end":9192.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9196.83846875,"end":9198.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9239.160968750002,"end":9240.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9742.27221875,"end":9748.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9749.612843750001,"end":9756.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9756.953468750002,"end":9761.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9761.23971875,"end":9763.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9764.14221875,"end":9767.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9767.73659375,"end":9772.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9772.613468750002,"end":9776.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9776.84909375,"end":9780.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9780.730343750001,"end":9785.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9785.97846875,"end":9787.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9788.290343750003,"end":9789.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9790.58534375,"end":9794.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9794.48346875,"end":9796.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9796.96409375,"end":9797.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9798.195968750002,"end":9804.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9804.844718750002,"end":9806.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9807.004718750002,"end":9811.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9811.527218750001,"end":9813.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9813.99096875,"end":9816.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9817.433468750001,"end":9822.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9822.36096875,"end":9825.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9825.48284375,"end":9828.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9828.97596875,"end":9831.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9831.524093750002,"end":9832.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9833.430968750003,"end":9841.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9842.20596875,"end":9843.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9844.58534375,"end":9850.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9850.710968750001,"end":9851.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9851.43659375,"end":9852.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9852.837218750003,"end":9857.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9857.579093750002,"end":9861.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9861.86534375,"end":9865.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9865.274093750002,"end":9869.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9869.30721875,"end":9871.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9871.46721875,"end":9874.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9875.26409375,"end":9877.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9877.69409375,"end":9879.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9880.360343750002,"end":9883.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9883.515968750002,"end":9886.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9887.211593750002,"end":9888.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9888.578468750002,"end":9892.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9893.62409375,"end":9895.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9895.919093750003,"end":9897.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9899.699093750001,"end":9900.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9901.808468750001,"end":9906.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9906.28034375,"end":9908.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9908.64284375,"end":9915.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9916.202843750001,"end":9921.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9921.231593750003,"end":9924.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9924.79221875,"end":9928.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9928.20096875,"end":9931.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9932.183468750001,"end":9934.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9934.664093750001,"end":9938.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9938.76471875,"end":9941.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9941.515343750001,"end":9943.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9943.28721875,"end":9945.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9946.40909375,"end":9951.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9951.960968750001,"end":9958.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9958.356593750003,"end":9960.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9961.140968750002,"end":9964.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9964.684718750003,"end":9967.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9967.688468750002,"end":9974.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9974.472218750001,"end":9979.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9979.16346875,"end":9981.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9981.20534375,"end":9984.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9984.20909375,"end":9985.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9986.723468750002,"end":9987.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9988.191593750002,"end":10000.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10000.493468750003,"end":10005.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10006.062218750001,"end":10006.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10007.09159375,"end":10013.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10013.605343750001,"end":10016.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10016.91284375,"end":10022.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10022.32971875,"end":10026.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10027.375343750002,"end":10029.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10029.55221875,"end":10033.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10033.46721875,"end":10036.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10036.67346875,"end":10038.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10039.086593750002,"end":10044.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10044.722843750002,"end":10046.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10046.86596875,"end":10055.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10056.14721875,"end":10058.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10058.340968750003,"end":10060.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10061.15909375,"end":10062.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10062.67784375,"end":10064.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10064.669093750003,"end":10070.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10070.32221875,"end":10071.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10072.043468750002,"end":10075.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10075.789718750002,"end":10078.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10078.844093750002,"end":10081.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10081.965968750003,"end":10086.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10086.79221875,"end":10090.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10090.504718750002,"end":10094.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10094.63909375,"end":10097.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10098.28409375,"end":10101.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10101.65909375,"end":10104.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10104.71346875,"end":10111.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10114.31534375,"end":10133.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10150.461593750002,"end":10153.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10153.49909375,"end":10154.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10159.590968750003,"end":10165.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10166.50971875,"end":10167.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10168.129718750002,"end":10172.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10172.93909375,"end":10174.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10175.723468750002,"end":10176.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10177.32659375,"end":10177.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10178.27159375,"end":10179.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10179.840968750003,"end":10180.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10181.579093750002,"end":10182.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10184.110343750002,"end":10185.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10186.86096875,"end":10187.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10187.67096875,"end":10190.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10191.09659375,"end":10191.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10192.058468750001,"end":10192.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10193.543468750002,"end":10198.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10200.023468750001,"end":10204.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10205.54159375,"end":10209.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10210.33409375,"end":10212.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10213.219718750002,"end":10215.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10215.312218750001,"end":10219.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10220.47596875,"end":10224.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10225.30221875,"end":10226.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10227.344093750002,"end":10227.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10228.980968750002,"end":10231.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10232.946593750003,"end":10233.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10233.570968750002,"end":10236.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10236.794093750003,"end":10237.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10238.07659375,"end":10238.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10239.17346875,"end":10241.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10242.160343750002,"end":10242.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10242.71721875,"end":10246.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10247.003468750001,"end":10251.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10252.487843750001,"end":10253.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10253.550968750002,"end":10254.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10255.17096875,"end":10256.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10256.58846875,"end":10257.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10258.140968750002,"end":10260.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10261.144718750002,"end":10263.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10263.405968750001,"end":10263.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10264.13159375,"end":10264.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10264.890968750002,"end":10265.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10266.24096875,"end":10268.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10269.19409375,"end":10269.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10271.016593750002,"end":10274.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10275.640343750001,"end":10278.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10278.94784375,"end":10280.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10281.023468750001,"end":10282.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10283.352218750002,"end":10285.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10286.11971875,"end":10288.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10288.22909375,"end":10290.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10290.743468750003,"end":10291.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10291.95846875,"end":10293.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10293.76409375,"end":10298.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10299.062843750002,"end":10299.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10299.78846875,"end":10301.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10301.50971875,"end":10301.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10302.52221875,"end":10304.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10303.04534375,"end":10303.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10304.85096875,"end":10312.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10312.63034375,"end":10315.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10317.203468750002,"end":10318.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10319.02596875,"end":10319.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10320.409718750001,"end":10321.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10321.945343750001,"end":10323.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10325.438468750002,"end":10325.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10326.383468750002,"end":10327.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10328.05409375,"end":10329.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10330.26471875,"end":10330.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10332.137843750003,"end":10336.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10336.727843750003,"end":10341.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10341.43596875,"end":10342.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10342.85346875,"end":10345.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10346.160968750002,"end":10352.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10352.809718750003,"end":10356.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10356.82596875,"end":10360.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10361.449718750002,"end":10362.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10364.01471875,"end":10365.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10365.820343750001,"end":10366.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10366.95096875,"end":10370.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10370.140343750001,"end":10371.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10372.33409375,"end":10374.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10375.48971875,"end":10376.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10377.17721875,"end":10378.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10378.34159375,"end":10380.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10380.51846875,"end":10383.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10384.34909375,"end":10387.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10387.454093750002,"end":10392.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10393.22534375,"end":10395.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10395.97596875,"end":10397.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10398.034718750001,"end":10398.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10398.743468750003,"end":10401.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10401.578468750002,"end":10403.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10404.19409375,"end":10404.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10405.39221875,"end":10408.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10409.25659375,"end":10410.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10411.484093750001,"end":10413.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10413.32346875,"end":10417.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10417.862843750001,"end":10421.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10422.874718750001,"end":10424.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10425.304718750001,"end":10426.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10427.70096875,"end":10429.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10429.70909375,"end":10432.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10432.66221875,"end":10433.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10434.113468750002,"end":10435.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10436.20596875,"end":10437.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10439.05784375,"end":10442.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10443.495968750001,"end":10445.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10446.617843750002,"end":10448.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10449.402218750001,"end":10452.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10453.13159375,"end":10457.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10457.60346875,"end":10461.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10461.99096875,"end":10462.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10463.121593750002,"end":10465.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10465.399718750003,"end":10467.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10467.914093750001,"end":10468.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10468.285343750002,"end":10470.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10468.30221875,"end":10468.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10470.546593750001,"end":10473.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10471.25534375,"end":10472.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10474.410968750002,"end":10475.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10475.74409375,"end":10478.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10478.84909375,"end":10482.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10483.844093750002,"end":10484.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10485.379718750002,"end":10489.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10490.88096875,"end":10491.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10492.31534375,"end":10496.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10496.871593750002,"end":10503.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10503.824093750001,"end":10507.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10508.22846875,"end":10512.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10512.227843750003,"end":10515.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10516.125968750002,"end":10517.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10517.594093750002,"end":10518.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10518.387218750002,"end":10519.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10520.46284375,"end":10520.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10521.69471875,"end":10523.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10524.124718750001,"end":10527.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10527.887843750003,"end":10530.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10530.672218750002,"end":10531.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10532.511593750001,"end":10535.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10536.88221875,"end":10537.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10538.063468750002,"end":10538.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10539.160343750002,"end":10540.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10541.219093750002,"end":10542.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10543.024718750003,"end":10544.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10545.758468750002,"end":10546.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10547.46284375,"end":10548.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10549.032218750002,"end":10550.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10550.43284375,"end":10553.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10553.68971875,"end":10554.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10554.027218750001,"end":10555.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10555.96784375,"end":10558.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10559.207843750002,"end":10559.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10560.18659375,"end":10561.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10561.82346875,"end":10566.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10566.02534375,"end":10566.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10566.14346875,"end":10566.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10566.71721875,"end":10568.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10569.434093750002,"end":10571.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10571.57721875,"end":10574.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10574.378468750001,"end":10576.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10577.06159375,"end":10579.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10580.36909375,"end":10582.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10582.96784375,"end":10584.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10585.00971875,"end":10586.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10587.034718750001,"end":10590.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10590.730343750001,"end":10591.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10591.18596875,"end":10597.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10597.66596875,"end":10604.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10605.27659375,"end":10609.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10609.832843750002,"end":10611.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10612.043468750002,"end":10615.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10615.65471875,"end":10616.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10616.97096875,"end":10617.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10617.86534375,"end":10621.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10621.93221875,"end":10626.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10621.98284375,"end":10622.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10626.977843750003,"end":10628.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10628.969093750002,"end":10630.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10631.11221875,"end":10632.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10632.78284375,"end":10638.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10634.622218750003,"end":10635.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10638.790343750003,"end":10640.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10640.882843750001,"end":10641.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10643.19471875,"end":10648.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10647.76784375,"end":10647.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10648.155968750001,"end":10650.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10650.72096875,"end":10652.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10651.73346875,"end":10651.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10652.35784375,"end":10654.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10654.63596875,"end":10655.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10655.98596875,"end":10661.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10661.402843750002,"end":10663.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10663.54596875,"end":10664.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10665.149093750002,"end":10668.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10669.958468750003,"end":10671.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10671.409718750001,"end":10672.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10672.35471875,"end":10675.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10675.898468750001,"end":10676.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10677.82221875,"end":10679.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10680.52221875,"end":10682.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10684.16721875,"end":10685.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10685.93909375,"end":10688.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10689.53346875,"end":10689.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10690.140968750002,"end":10694.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10695.55784375,"end":10695.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10696.536593750003,"end":10697.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10697.481593750003,"end":10698.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10698.780968750001,"end":10699.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10699.472843750002,"end":10701.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10702.155968750001,"end":10703.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10703.809718750003,"end":10704.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10705.24409375,"end":10707.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10707.167843750001,"end":10708.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10708.754093750002,"end":10710.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10711.065968750001,"end":10711.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10711.909718750001,"end":10712.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10712.871593750002,"end":10713.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10713.64784375,"end":10715.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10715.571593750003,"end":10716.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10717.44471875,"end":10719.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10720.195343750001,"end":10722.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10722.321593750003,"end":10723.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10724.24534375,"end":10724.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10725.207218750002,"end":10725.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10725.88221875,"end":10729.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10730.15159375,"end":10730.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10730.894093750001,"end":10733.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10734.083468750003,"end":10734.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10734.488468750002,"end":10736.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10737.15471875,"end":10739.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10740.20909375,"end":10740.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10740.968468750001,"end":10742.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10743.21284375,"end":10744.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10744.84971875,"end":10745.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10746.368468750003,"end":10746.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10747.48221875,"end":10749.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10750.33409375,"end":10750.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10751.633468750002,"end":10755.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10755.51471875,"end":10756.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10756.83096875,"end":10759.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10760.273468750001,"end":10763.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10764.35721875,"end":10765.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10765.89284375,"end":10769.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10769.554718750001,"end":10774.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10775.29221875,"end":10777.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10777.55346875,"end":10779.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10780.253468750001,"end":10781.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10781.23221875,"end":10784.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10784.40471875,"end":10786.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10787.391593750002,"end":10788.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10788.84284375,"end":10790.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10790.26034375,"end":10791.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10792.015343750001,"end":10793.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10793.78721875,"end":10796.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10796.942843750003,"end":10798.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10799.136593750001,"end":10799.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10800.23346875,"end":10801.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10801.53284375,"end":10802.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10803.051593750002,"end":10804.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10805.565968750001,"end":10806.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10807.624718750001,"end":10808.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10808.519093750001,"end":10809.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10809.750968750002,"end":10811.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10811.809718750003,"end":10813.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10813.649093750002,"end":10815.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10816.19721875,"end":10819.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10819.74096875,"end":10820.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10820.989718750003,"end":10821.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10821.765968750002,"end":10822.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10824.22971875,"end":10826.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10827.13221875,"end":10828.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10829.27534375,"end":10833.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10834.13534375,"end":10835.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10835.99159375,"end":10837.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10838.050343750001,"end":10839.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10839.653468750003,"end":10841.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10841.62784375,"end":10843.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10844.14221875,"end":10845.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10846.79159375,"end":10847.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10848.242843750002,"end":10848.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10849.508468750002,"end":10851.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10851.80346875,"end":10852.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10852.664093750001,"end":10853.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10854.75659375,"end":10856.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10857.051593750002,"end":10857.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10858.13159375,"end":10860.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10860.71346875,"end":10861.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10861.23659375,"end":10862.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10862.485343750002,"end":10863.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10863.81846875,"end":10864.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10865.016593750002,"end":10866.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10866.754718750002,"end":10867.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10867.36221875,"end":10867.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10868.273468750001,"end":10869.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10869.690968750001,"end":10871.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10872.036593750003,"end":10873.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10874.26409375,"end":10875.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10877.06534375,"end":10877.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10878.65159375,"end":10878.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10879.07346875,"end":10880.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10881.942218750002,"end":10884.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10885.03034375,"end":10888.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10888.18596875,"end":10889.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10890.379718750002,"end":10894.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10894.98659375,"end":10896.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10897.754093750002,"end":10898.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10899.222218750001,"end":10902.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10903.74471875,"end":10904.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10905.246593750002,"end":10906.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10907.187218750001,"end":10909.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10910.089718750001,"end":10910.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10911.81096875,"end":10913.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10913.34659375,"end":10913.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10914.51096875,"end":10916.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10916.72159375,"end":10917.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10917.852218750002,"end":10920.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10921.31159375,"end":10926.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10927.79159375,"end":10928.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10929.141593750002,"end":10929.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10930.49159375,"end":10933.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10934.558468750001,"end":10936.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10937.34284375,"end":10939.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10940.76846875,"end":10941.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10941.71346875,"end":10942.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10942.590968750003,"end":10945.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10945.746593750002,"end":10946.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10947.332843750002,"end":10950.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10950.82596875,"end":10952.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10953.964718750001,"end":10954.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10955.51721875,"end":10956.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10957.778468750003,"end":10959.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10960.42784375,"end":10961.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10962.26721875,"end":10962.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10963.195343750001,"end":10968.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10969.33784375,"end":10969.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10970.13096875,"end":10972.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10974.02909375,"end":10976.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10976.374718750001,"end":10980.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10981.977218750002,"end":10986.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10982.85471875,"end":10982.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10982.972843750002,"end":10983.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10983.32721875,"end":10983.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10983.394718750002,"end":10983.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10988.879093750002,"end":10991.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10992.33846875,"end":10993.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11004.910343750002,"end":11006.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11007.137843750003,"end":11008.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11014.64721875,"end":11015.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11015.71034375,"end":11023.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11024.097218750001,"end":11030.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11031.31971875,"end":11031.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11031.336593750002,"end":11032.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11032.281593750002,"end":11039.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11032.31534375,"end":11032.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11034.67784375,"end":11035.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11039.031593750002,"end":11049.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11049.12284375,"end":11049.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11049.96659375,"end":11062.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11050.87784375,"end":11051.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11063.145968750003,"end":11063.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11063.989718750003,"end":11066.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11067.11159375,"end":11068.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11068.54596875,"end":11084.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11084.222843750002,"end":11084.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11084.340968750003,"end":11084.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11084.965343750002,"end":11085.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11085.066593750002,"end":11087.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11085.235343750002,"end":11085.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11087.800343750001,"end":11099.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11099.309093750002,"end":11119.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11105.856593750003,"end":11107.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11119.22159375,"end":11151.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11153.005343750003,"end":11155.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11155.958468750003,"end":11156.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11157.308468750001,"end":11169.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11169.40784375,"end":11172.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11173.10346875,"end":11198.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11198.652218750001,"end":11199.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11200.10346875,"end":11202.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11203.32659375,"end":11207.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11208.000968750002,"end":11217.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11217.855968750002,"end":11231.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11231.457218750002,"end":11231.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11231.659718750001,"end":11255.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11232.199718750002,"end":11232.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11237.12721875,"end":11237.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11237.97096875,"end":11238.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11256.43221875,"end":11260.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11261.157218750002,"end":11273.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11267.65409375,"end":11268.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11273.492843750002,"end":11289.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11289.96284375,"end":11304.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11303.41221875,"end":11317.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11306.601593750001,"end":11306.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11309.149718750003,"end":11310.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11316.43971875,"end":11316.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11317.958468750003,"end":11318.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11320.000343750002,"end":11324.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11324.87721875,"end":11331.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11330.125343750002,"end":11340.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11333.770343750002,"end":11333.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11340.63846875,"end":11347.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11347.97909375,"end":11353.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11354.40846875,"end":11367.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11359.285343750002,"end":11360.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11365.42784375,"end":11365.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11366.879093750002,"end":11374.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11375.265968750002,"end":11403.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11404.476593750001,"end":11446.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11447.204093750002,"end":11462.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11462.442218750002,"end":11463.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11463.42096875,"end":11477.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11477.427218750003,"end":11495.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11495.58471875,"end":11498.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11498.234093750001,"end":11531.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11499.938468750002,"end":11502.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11532.692843750003,"end":11535.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11535.831593750001,"end":11536.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11536.77659375,"end":11555.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11537.468468750001,"end":11537.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11537.50221875,"end":11537.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11537.55284375,"end":11537.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11555.54159375,"end":11556.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11556.081593750001,"end":11569.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11559.473468750002,"end":11559.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11560.92471875,"end":11561.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11566.020968750003,"end":11566.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11569.14284375,"end":11569.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11569.21034375,"end":11597.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11570.56034375,"end":11570.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11571.40409375,"end":11571.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11575.84221875,"end":11576.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11597.25659375,"end":11608.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11608.07346875,"end":11614.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11615.144093750001,"end":11625.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11620.51034375,"end":11620.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11625.87659375,"end":11634.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11634.11159375,"end":11686.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11674.915343750003,"end":11675.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11676.45096875,"end":11676.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11686.559093750002,"end":11707.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11707.382843750001,"end":11711.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11707.450343750003,"end":11708.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11711.16284375,"end":11721.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11713.52534375,"end":11715.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11718.75659375,"end":11721.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11721.70971875,"end":11722.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11726.586593750002,"end":11730.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11735.749718750001,"end":11741.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11742.43221875,"end":11747.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11749.114718750003,"end":11749.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11756.13471875,"end":11761.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11761.99034375,"end":11773.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11774.005343750003,"end":11799.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11800.515968750002,"end":11815.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11815.58534375,"end":11860.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11860.92846875,"end":11891.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11891.50596875,"end":12013.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12013.54596875,"end":12015.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12015.891593750002,"end":12020.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12021.34221875,"end":12074.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12074.02596875,"end":12085.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12085.58534375,"end":12088.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12088.926593750002,"end":12117.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12116.21346875,"end":12116.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12117.10784375,"end":12118.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12118.980968750002,"end":12119.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12119.04846875,"end":12119.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12119.301593750002,"end":12119.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12119.504093750002,"end":12136.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12119.605343750001,"end":12119.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12119.655968750001,"end":12119.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12128.86971875,"end":12128.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12128.903468750003,"end":12130.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12130.13534375,"end":12130.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12135.754718750002,"end":12146.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12138.57284375,"end":12139.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12142.285343750002,"end":12142.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12146.352218750002,"end":12152.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12152.849093750003,"end":12153.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12153.81096875,"end":12160.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12160.577843750001,"end":12184.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12162.83909375,"end":12165.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12184.894718750002,"end":12211.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12211.86096875,"end":12212.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12213.07596875,"end":12219.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12219.910343750002,"end":12239.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12241.51034375,"end":12257.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12253.305968750003,"end":12253.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12253.32284375,"end":12253.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12257.524718750003,"end":12257.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12257.64284375,"end":12269.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12267.81846875,"end":12268.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12269.65784375,"end":12280.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12279.141593750002,"end":12312.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12281.655968750001,"end":12282.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12313.144718750002,"end":12338.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12339.06471875,"end":12340.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12340.90409375,"end":12341.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12342.456593750001,"end":12348.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12348.81846875,"end":12361.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12358.09971875,"end":12358.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12358.133468750002,"end":12358.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12358.234718750002,"end":12358.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12358.25159375,"end":12358.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12358.454093750002,"end":12358.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12360.563468750002,"end":12360.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12361.05284375,"end":12361.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12361.37346875,"end":12361.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12361.390343750001,"end":12361.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12361.457843750002,"end":12362.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12365.406593750002,"end":12369.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12376.695968750002,"end":12379.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12380.52659375,"end":12383.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12384.72846875,"end":12387.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12388.99784375,"end":12396.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12396.270968750003,"end":12399.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12399.88221875,"end":12400.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12401.063468750002,"end":12412.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12412.62284375,"end":12420.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12420.452843750001,"end":12422.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12424.01346875,"end":12426.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12426.39284375,"end":12427.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12427.489718750003,"end":12431.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12431.792843750001,"end":12433.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12433.328468750002,"end":12437.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12437.83409375,"end":12443.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12443.75721875,"end":12456.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12457.324718750002,"end":12464.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12464.83409375,"end":12467.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12467.972843750002,"end":12468.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12469.407218750002,"end":12472.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12472.714718750001,"end":12476.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12477.152843750002,"end":12479.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12479.734718750002,"end":12482.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12482.738468750002,"end":12486.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12486.552218750003,"end":12487.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12488.03721875,"end":12489.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12489.336593750002,"end":12502.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12503.32596875,"end":12504.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12504.96284375,"end":12512.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12512.809718750003,"end":12518.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12518.36159375,"end":12525.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12526.12409375,"end":12530.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12530.66346875,"end":12531.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12532.317218750002,"end":12537.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12537.480968750002,"end":12543.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12543.62346875,"end":12543.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12543.640343750001,"end":12547.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12548.04471875,"end":12551.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12552.65159375,"end":12557.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12558.11909375,"end":12559.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12560.27909375,"end":12564.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12565.18971875,"end":12578.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12579.53346875,"end":12585.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12585.92909375,"end":12599.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12600.30659375,"end":12602.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12603.124718750001,"end":12610.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12611.055968750003,"end":12619.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12617.097218750001,"end":12617.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12619.40909375,"end":12637.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12628.082843750002,"end":12628.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12628.352843750003,"end":12628.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12637.617218750001,"end":12664.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12663.43596875,"end":12664.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12664.414718750002,"end":12667.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12668.07659375,"end":12671.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12671.62034375,"end":12673.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12673.56096875,"end":12674.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12674.62409375,"end":12675.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12676.14284375,"end":12681.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12681.559718750003,"end":12686.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12686.75721875,"end":12688.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12688.630343750003,"end":12690.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12690.26721875,"end":12698.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12699.008468750002,"end":12700.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12701.08409375,"end":12704.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12705.235343750002,"end":12707.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12706.68659375,"end":12710.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12710.196593750003,"end":12720.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12720.06846875,"end":12725.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12725.97471875,"end":12732.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12733.062218750001,"end":12762.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12762.222218750001,"end":12762.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12762.644093750001,"end":12766.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12766.457843750002,"end":12768.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12768.550343750001,"end":12771.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12771.65534375,"end":12771.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12772.54971875,"end":12786.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12785.813468750002,"end":12787.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12787.062218750001,"end":12787.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12787.112843750001,"end":12788.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12787.905968750001,"end":12798.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12791.517218750003,"end":12791.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12791.53409375,"end":12791.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12791.550968750002,"end":12792.782843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12798.58784375,"end":12802.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12803.751593750003,"end":12819.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12820.137218750002,"end":12832.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12829.23284375,"end":12829.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12829.55346875,"end":12829.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12830.07659375,"end":12833.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12833.890343750001,"end":12844.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12833.92409375,"end":12834.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12834.902843750002,"end":12835.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12835.30784375,"end":12835.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12844.36971875,"end":12848.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12848.63909375,"end":12850.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12851.17034375,"end":12851.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12852.773468750001,"end":12854.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12854.27534375,"end":12854.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12857.633468750002,"end":12861.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12869.175968750002,"end":12871.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12871.487843750001,"end":12872.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12875.352218750002,"end":12882.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12882.97971875,"end":12885.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12886.87784375,"end":12892.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12892.817843750003,"end":12893.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12894.35346875,"end":12896.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12896.665343750003,"end":12898.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12898.926593750002,"end":12902.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12902.655968750001,"end":12903.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12904.512218750002,"end":12905.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12906.250343750002,"end":12909.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12910.23284375,"end":12912.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12913.219718750002,"end":12916.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12916.105343750001,"end":12919.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12918.130343750003,"end":12951.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12951.610343750002,"end":12951.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12951.762218750002,"end":12954.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12953.196593750003,"end":12953.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12954.546593750001,"end":12958.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12958.765343750001,"end":12989.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12989.39346875,"end":13019.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13020.899093750002,"end":13023.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13023.700343750003,"end":13041.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13040.457218750002,"end":13045.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13041.925343750001,"end":13042.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13046.009093750003,"end":13105.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13052.590343750002,"end":13052.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13105.98284375,"end":13106.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13106.050343750001,"end":13106.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13106.08409375,"end":13110.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13110.25221875,"end":13119.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13119.75284375,"end":13124.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13125.034718750001,"end":13128.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13127.633468750002,"end":13127.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13129.050968750002,"end":13131.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13131.227843750003,"end":13139.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13137.910343750002,"end":13142.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13140.644093750001,"end":13141.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13141.94346875,"end":13151.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13143.10784375,"end":13143.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13147.090343750002,"end":13148.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13148.980343750001,"end":13149.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13152.28784375,"end":13158.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13159.03784375,"end":13160.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13161.72096875,"end":13162.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13163.644718750002,"end":13170.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13170.023468750001,"end":13171.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13171.27221875,"end":13171.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13171.99784375,"end":13173.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13173.668468750002,"end":13201.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13202.423468750003,"end":13228.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13229.81159375,"end":13230.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13231.06034375,"end":13231.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13231.836593750002,"end":13233.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13233.372218750003,"end":13233.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13233.945968750002,"end":13239.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13236.797843750002,"end":13237.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13239.683468750001,"end":13239.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13239.88596875,"end":13241.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13239.91971875,"end":13239.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13241.40471875,"end":13242.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13242.535343750002,"end":13243.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13243.41284375,"end":13245.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13246.16346875,"end":13248.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13248.340343750002,"end":13270.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13267.392218750003,"end":13267.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13270.73346875,"end":13271.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13271.03721875,"end":13279.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13278.74909375,"end":13279.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13279.677218750003,"end":13284.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13279.69409375,"end":13280.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13285.33034375,"end":13290.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13290.46034375,"end":13290.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13290.477218750002,"end":13290.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13290.81471875,"end":13307.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13308.128468750001,"end":13314.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13315.485968750003,"end":13325.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13321.13909375,"end":13321.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13326.015968750002,"end":13333.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13333.727843750003,"end":13344.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13344.56159375,"end":13347.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13348.274093750002,"end":13348.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13349.235968750003,"end":13352.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13352.35784375,"end":13353.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13353.859718750002,"end":13357.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13357.99409375,"end":13363.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13360.761593750001,"end":13361.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13362.11159375,"end":13375.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13366.43159375,"end":13369.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13374.210968750001,"end":13374.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13374.362843750001,"end":13374.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13374.970343750003,"end":13376.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13375.915343750003,"end":13378.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13378.125968750002,"end":13385.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13385.95596875,"end":13388.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13388.41971875,"end":13390.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13389.364718750003,"end":13390.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13390.191593750002,"end":13390.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13390.22534375,"end":13390.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13390.84971875,"end":13394.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13393.954718750003,"end":13400.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13395.675968750002,"end":13395.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13400.890343750001,"end":13403.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13403.30346875,"end":13403.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13404.484718750002,"end":13406.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13404.72096875,"end":13406.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13406.610968750003,"end":13408.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13407.032843750003,"end":13411.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13413.05721875,"end":13415.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13413.090968750003,"end":13416.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13416.28034375,"end":13418.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13418.997218750003,"end":13422.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13422.034718750001,"end":13425.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13425.93284375,"end":13429.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13428.93659375,"end":13429.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13430.269718750002,"end":13430.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13431.602843750003,"end":13432.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13433.813468750002,"end":13439.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13440.344093750002,"end":13441.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13442.706593750001,"end":13445.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13445.69346875,"end":13446.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13446.520343750002,"end":13454.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13455.160343750002,"end":13459.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13461.31971875,"end":13462.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13463.142218750003,"end":13465.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13465.504718750002,"end":13467.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13467.462218750003,"end":13470.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13470.044093750003,"end":13470.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13471.17471875,"end":13476.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13476.152843750002,"end":13480.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13481.99159375,"end":13483.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13486.058468750001,"end":13489.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13488.20159375,"end":13490.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13490.766593750002,"end":13492.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13493.48346875,"end":13498.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13497.58409375,"end":13497.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13498.52909375,"end":13511.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13506.629093750002,"end":13506.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13511.20221875,"end":13511.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13511.219093750002,"end":13511.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13511.52284375,"end":13514.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13514.965343750002,"end":13516.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13516.652843750002,"end":13517.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13518.67784375,"end":13519.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13521.05721875,"end":13522.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13525.74846875,"end":13527.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13527.60471875,"end":13529.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13529.089718750001,"end":13530.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13530.28784375,"end":13533.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13534.439093750003,"end":13540.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13540.024718750003,"end":13540.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13540.24409375,"end":13540.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13540.851593750001,"end":13543.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13544.192843750003,"end":13549.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13550.031593750002,"end":13552.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13552.680968750003,"end":13555.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13555.583468750003,"end":13558.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13558.85721875,"end":13560.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13560.477218750002,"end":13561.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13561.371593750002,"end":13562.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13562.72159375,"end":13564.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13564.965968750003,"end":13566.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13566.51846875,"end":13573.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13573.69034375,"end":13578.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13579.039718750002,"end":13586.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13586.59971875,"end":13590.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13590.531593750002,"end":13594.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13595.492843750002,"end":13596.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13597.349093750003,"end":13606.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13606.96784375,"end":13609.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13610.71409375,"end":13612.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13613.312843750002,"end":13617.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13619.99534375,"end":13624.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13620.265343750001,"end":13620.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13624.66971875,"end":13625.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13625.41221875,"end":13625.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13625.496593750002,"end":13625.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13625.90159375,"end":13627.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13628.26409375,"end":13633.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13634.609093750001,"end":13635.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13636.33034375,"end":13639.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13639.367843750002,"end":13644.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13643.265968750002,"end":13643.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13644.531593750002,"end":13645.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13644.599093750003,"end":13648.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13646.759093750003,"end":13647.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13647.974093750003,"end":13657.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13652.42909375,"end":13652.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13656.495968750001,"end":13658.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13658.892218750003,"end":13665.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13665.456593750001,"end":13667.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13668.831593750001,"end":13673.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13672.40909375,"end":13677.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13679.715968750003,"end":13682.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13683.293468750002,"end":13688.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13688.79471875,"end":13690.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13690.80284375,"end":13715.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13716.419093750003,"end":13717.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13718.66346875,"end":13721.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13723.13534375,"end":13724.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13725.83534375,"end":13730.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13730.290343750003,"end":13730.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13730.50971875,"end":13730.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13730.67846875,"end":13733.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13734.222218750001,"end":13756.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13757.72909375,"end":13764.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13765.54221875,"end":13777.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13776.105968750002,"end":13779.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13781.860343750002,"end":13781.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13781.87721875,"end":13781.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13781.97846875,"end":13782.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13782.164093750001,"end":13782.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13782.602843750003,"end":13783.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13783.024718750003,"end":13783.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13783.058468750001,"end":13783.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13783.868468750003,"end":13792.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13793.470343750003,"end":13811.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13811.57721875,"end":13814.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13814.378468750001,"end":13828.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13830.07221875,"end":13831.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13832.164718750002,"end":13838.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13839.167843750001,"end":13843.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13843.724093750003,"end":13845.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13847.36909375,"end":13852.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13853.02221875,"end":13877.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13878.419093750003,"end":13878.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13879.00971875,"end":13879.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13880.66346875,"end":13881.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13882.536593750003,"end":13883.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13884.03846875,"end":13886.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13886.14784375,"end":13888.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13889.35409375,"end":13892.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13893.285968750002,"end":13895.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13896.35721875,"end":13907.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13907.680343750002,"end":13908.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13909.671593750001,"end":13914.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13914.88596875,"end":13922.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13923.407843750003,"end":13925.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13925.90534375,"end":13928.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13929.65159375,"end":13934.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13934.91659375,"end":13937.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13938.02159375,"end":13948.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13949.969093750002,"end":13954.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13956.128468750001,"end":13957.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13958.27159375,"end":13958.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13959.267218750003,"end":13964.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13965.12284375,"end":13966.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13966.523468750001,"end":13966.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13966.60784375,"end":13969.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13966.675343750001,"end":13968.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13969.72971875,"end":13973.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13973.340968750003,"end":13980.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13978.757843750001,"end":13998.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13980.782843750003,"end":13981.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13985.06909375,"end":13985.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13985.17034375,"end":13985.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13989.034718750001,"end":13989.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13998.83909375,"end":14007.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14007.664718750002,"end":14013.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14013.38534375,"end":14020.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14021.14784375,"end":14027.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14021.164718750002,"end":14023.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14027.89784375,"end":14038.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14039.74409375,"end":14060.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14042.427218750003,"end":14042.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14058.593468750001,"end":14059.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14060.11221875,"end":14072.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14072.532218750002,"end":14076.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14076.430343750002,"end":14079.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14079.09659375,"end":14083.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14081.391593750002,"end":14082.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14083.821593750003,"end":14086.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14087.129093750002,"end":14091.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14092.42784375,"end":14094.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14094.891593750002,"end":14095.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14095.85346875,"end":14102.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14102.97471875,"end":14105.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14105.10096875,"end":14110.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14110.73721875,"end":14111.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14111.192843750003,"end":14114.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14114.85471875,"end":14124.220343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14118.887843750003,"end":14119.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14124.59159375,"end":14131.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14124.625343750002,"end":14125.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14131.864718750003,"end":14138.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14138.90159375,"end":14146.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14146.37721875,"end":14151.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14151.372218750003,"end":14157.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14157.531593750002,"end":14161.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14162.121593750002,"end":14180.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14181.34221875,"end":14183.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14183.890343750001,"end":14186.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14187.315968750001,"end":14202.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14202.85784375,"end":14212.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14212.898468750001,"end":14213.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14214.41721875,"end":14224.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14222.702843750001,"end":14223.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14224.137218750002,"end":14225.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14225.84159375,"end":14229.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14228.11971875,"end":14251.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14232.59159375,"end":14232.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14256.149093750002,"end":14260.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14268.214718750001,"end":14271.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14271.437843750002,"end":14272.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14272.31534375,"end":14272.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14272.973468750002,"end":14273.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14275.69034375,"end":14278.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14279.672843750002,"end":14282.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14281.140968750002,"end":14281.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14281.714718750001,"end":14281.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14282.64284375,"end":14283.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14283.520343750002,"end":14284.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14284.617218750001,"end":14290.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14291.19846875,"end":14291.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14292.548468750003,"end":14295.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14296.159718750001,"end":14302.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14302.859093750001,"end":14307.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14308.22534375,"end":14311.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14312.81534375,"end":14313.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14314.38471875,"end":14319.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14320.105343750001,"end":14325.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14325.84284375,"end":14328.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14328.863468750002,"end":14331.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14332.829093750002,"end":14335.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14336.457218750002,"end":14340.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14341.215968750003,"end":14343.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14344.101593750001,"end":14346.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14347.34159375,"end":14352.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14352.707843750002,"end":14357.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14357.348468750002,"end":14358.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14359.64346875,"end":14361.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14362.22534375,"end":14366.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14366.477843750003,"end":14376.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14377.19346875,"end":14382.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14382.660968750002,"end":14389.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14390.980343750001,"end":14393.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14393.59596875,"end":14400.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14398.320968750002,"end":14401.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14401.645343750002,"end":14410.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14410.875968750002,"end":14426.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14426.265968750002,"end":14427.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14427.88596875,"end":14428.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14428.223468750002,"end":14436.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14436.644093750001,"end":14439.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14436.660968750002,"end":14437.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14440.035968750002,"end":14443.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14443.91721875,"end":14446.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14446.583468750003,"end":14451.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14452.050968750002,"end":14455.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14456.016593750002,"end":14459.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14460.35346875,"end":14464.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14465.68596875,"end":14470.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14470.934093750002,"end":14471.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14472.402218750001,"end":14473.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14474.29221875,"end":14482.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14482.88159375,"end":14489.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14488.500968750002,"end":14491.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14491.285343750002,"end":14502.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14491.31909375,"end":14492.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14498.102843750003,"end":14499.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14503.08096875,"end":14506.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14507.046593750001,"end":14523.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14520.47909375,"end":14528.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14528.849093750003,"end":14538.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14538.02909375,"end":14539.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14539.61534375,"end":14539.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14540.442218750002,"end":14548.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14544.27284375,"end":14545.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14549.132843750001,"end":14554.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14553.21659375,"end":14554.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14554.532843750003,"end":14554.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":14554.583468750003,"end":14554.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":14554.97159375,"end":14555.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":14555.34284375,"end":14555.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":14555.64659375,"end":14557.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":14558.093468750001,"end":14562.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":14563.054718750001,"end":14565.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14563.88159375,"end":14565.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":14565.687218750001,"end":14571.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14568.62346875,"end":14577.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":14575.42409375,"end":14577.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14577.60096875,"end":14578.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":14578.461593750002,"end":14578.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14578.47846875,"end":14578.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14578.79909375,"end":14580.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":14580.28409375,"end":14583.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14581.094093750002,"end":14581.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14582.86596875,"end":14590.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":14588.87346875,"end":14588.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14588.890343750001,"end":14590.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14590.375343750002,"end":14590.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14590.45971875,"end":14592.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14592.653468750003,"end":14596.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14597.00721875,"end":14604.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14604.90471875,"end":14612.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14613.02159375,"end":14617.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14617.324718750002,"end":14622.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14622.960968750001,"end":14635.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14635.887218750002,"end":14640.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14640.81471875,"end":14645.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14641.92846875,"end":14642.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14642.046593750001,"end":14642.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14642.45159375,"end":14642.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14644.071593750003,"end":14644.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14644.122218750003,"end":14645.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14646.113468750002,"end":14646.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14647.868468750003,"end":14658.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14654.618468750003,"end":14656.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14659.140968750002,"end":14664.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14665.03034375,"end":14667.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14667.96659375,"end":14683.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14682.47909375,"end":14682.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14683.035968750002,"end":14683.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14683.32284375,"end":14686.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14683.37346875,"end":14692.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14688.95909375,"end":14712.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14712.53346875,"end":14723.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14724.312218750001,"end":14734.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14733.72846875,"end":14737.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14737.829093750002,"end":14741.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14741.676593750002,"end":14757.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14757.977843750003,"end":14759.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14758.011593750001,"end":14758.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14759.024093750002,"end":14777.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14765.48721875,"end":14767.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14768.76096875,"end":14769.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14769.28409375,"end":14770.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14772.996593750002,"end":14773.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14776.35471875,"end":14776.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14777.18159375,"end":14777.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14777.92409375,"end":14782.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14782.328468750002,"end":14818.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14818.91346875,"end":14823.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14823.419093750003,"end":14840.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14842.234718750002,"end":14849.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14849.625968750002,"end":14849.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14849.676593750002,"end":14850.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14850.11534375,"end":14850.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14850.891593750002,"end":14850.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14850.925343750001,"end":14856.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14851.785968750002,"end":14853.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14858.046593750001,"end":14868.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14858.282843750003,"end":14858.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14858.316593750002,"end":14858.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14858.97471875,"end":14859.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14859.02534375,"end":14859.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14859.970343750003,"end":14860.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14860.03784375,"end":14860.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14860.864718750003,"end":14860.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14865.74159375,"end":14870.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14871.124718750001,"end":14872.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14871.32721875,"end":14872.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14872.99784375,"end":14878.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14877.267218750003,"end":14883.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14883.03846875,"end":14885.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14883.325343750003,"end":14884.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14884.97909375,"end":14885.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14886.683468750001,"end":14898.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14898.597218750001,"end":14902.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14903.153468750003,"end":14912.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14910.81471875,"end":14911.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14912.468468750001,"end":14912.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14912.50221875,"end":14912.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14912.67096875,"end":14912.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14912.789093750001,"end":14916.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14919.589718750001,"end":14928.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14938.13534375,"end":14940.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14940.734093750001,"end":14941.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14942.45534375,"end":14943.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14943.585968750001,"end":14945.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14946.89346875,"end":14947.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14953.204718750003,"end":14954.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14954.622218750003,"end":14954.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14957.052218750003,"end":14957.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14958.047843750002,"end":14961.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14961.50721875,"end":14965.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14966.012843750003,"end":14973.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14973.707843750002,"end":14992.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14979.765968750002,"end":14979.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14979.816593750002,"end":14979.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14979.968468750001,"end":14980.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14993.265968750002,"end":15000.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15000.825968750003,"end":15004.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15005.16284375,"end":15018.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15019.000343750002,"end":15024.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15024.855968750002,"end":15027.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15027.117218750001,"end":15032.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15033.040343750003,"end":15034.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15033.985343750002,"end":15035.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15036.33096875,"end":15043.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15044.17784375,"end":15046.439093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15047.99159375,"end":15059.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15049.594718750002,"end":15050.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15059.972843750002,"end":15060.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15060.27659375,"end":15061.154093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15061.10346875,"end":15061.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15061.154093750003,"end":15061.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15061.609718750002,"end":15078.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15065.237843750001,"end":15066.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15075.02534375,"end":15076.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15078.14721875,"end":15093.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15094.02659375,"end":15094.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15094.65096875,"end":15100.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15099.359093750001,"end":15110.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15111.239093750002,"end":15118.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15115.47471875,"end":15116.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15118.02284375,"end":15133.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15118.05659375,"end":15118.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15125.49846875,"end":15125.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15134.712218750003,"end":15139.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15139.99409375,"end":15141.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15141.79971875,"end":15142.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15142.96409375,"end":15148.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15149.12346875,"end":15150.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15150.55784375,"end":15153.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15154.118468750003,"end":15160.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15161.020343750002,"end":15163.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15164.142218750003,"end":15165.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15166.065968750001,"end":15168.782843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15169.187843750002,"end":15175.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15175.465343750002,"end":15177.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15177.70971875,"end":15180.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15180.93284375,"end":15182.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15184.341593750003,"end":15185.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15184.949093750001,"end":15186.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15187.83471875,"end":15188.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15188.914718750002,"end":15189.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15190.93971875,"end":15193.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15193.875968750002,"end":15195.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15196.27221875,"end":15196.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15197.925968750002,"end":15199.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15199.02284375,"end":15199.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15201.081593750001,"end":15212.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15209.24909375,"end":15219.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15220.53846875,"end":15227.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15228.48659375,"end":15240.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15240.78846875,"end":15245.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15246.509093750003,"end":15248.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15248.027843750002,"end":15248.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15248.466593750003,"end":15248.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15248.719718750002,"end":15248.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15249.58034375,"end":15249.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15249.597218750001,"end":15255.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15253.37721875,"end":15263.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15257.427218750003,"end":15257.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15263.856593750003,"end":15267.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15267.535343750002,"end":15273.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15270.032843750003,"end":15271.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15271.88909375,"end":15272.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15274.133468750002,"end":15276.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15276.512843750003,"end":15281.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15281.794718750003,"end":15285.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15285.456593750001,"end":15292.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15292.71284375,"end":15300.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15300.42471875,"end":15328.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15328.133468750002,"end":15330.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15330.664718750002,"end":15332.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15332.90909375,"end":15346.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15337.887218750002,"end":15338.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15340.047218750002,"end":15340.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15340.958468750003,"end":15340.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15344.687843750002,"end":15353.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15349.817843750003,"end":15351.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15351.57284375,"end":15356.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15356.331593750001,"end":15362.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15360.972218750001,"end":15360.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15360.989093750002,"end":15361.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15361.05659375,"end":15361.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15361.410968750002,"end":15361.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15361.529093750003,"end":15362.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15362.997218750003,"end":15396.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15389.997218750003,"end":15391.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15397.08471875,"end":15413.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15414.11159375,"end":15414.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15414.989093750002,"end":15425.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15426.312218750001,"end":15429.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15429.805343750002,"end":15435.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15436.200968750003,"end":15439.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15440.21721875,"end":15441.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15441.90471875,"end":15445.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15446.69721875,"end":15451.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15452.704718750003,"end":15458.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15458.121593750002,"end":15460.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15460.93971875,"end":15466.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15466.559093750002,"end":15471.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15472.27971875,"end":15479.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15480.801593750002,"end":15484.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15484.969718750002,"end":15486.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15487.88909375,"end":15492.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15492.360968750003,"end":15495.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15495.938468750002,"end":15497.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15498.047843750002,"end":15500.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15501.034718750001,"end":15504.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15505.388468750003,"end":15507.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15505.523468750001,"end":15511.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15511.919093750003,"end":15516.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15516.05346875,"end":15519.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15517.454093750002,"end":15521.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15522.297218750002,"end":15522.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15523.191593750002,"end":15525.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15525.70596875,"end":15540.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15532.35471875,"end":15534.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15534.02534375,"end":15534.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15541.450343750003,"end":15542.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15543.509093750003,"end":15544.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15545.38221875,"end":15546.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15547.84596875,"end":15549.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15550.714718750001,"end":15551.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15552.48659375,"end":15553.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15553.988468750002,"end":15554.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15555.65909375,"end":15556.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15557.515343750001,"end":15558.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15559.152218750001,"end":15561.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15562.223468750002,"end":15568.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15568.180343750002,"end":15568.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15569.20971875,"end":15569.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15570.57659375,"end":15571.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15571.504718750002,"end":15572.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15573.023468750001,"end":15574.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15574.339718750001,"end":15575.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15576.33096875,"end":15578.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15578.879093750002,"end":15580.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15580.161593750003,"end":15580.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15581.039093750001,"end":15582.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15583.03034375,"end":15583.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15584.582843750002,"end":15585.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15587.468468750001,"end":15589.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15590.590343750002,"end":15592.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15593.172218750002,"end":15598.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15598.825343750003,"end":15600.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15601.79534375,"end":15606.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15602.11596875,"end":15604.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15606.18284375,"end":15613.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15607.566593750002,"end":15622.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15616.51034375,"end":15635.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15624.30659375,"end":15625.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15626.83784375,"end":15627.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15635.44409375,"end":15635.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15635.460968750001,"end":15640.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15635.69721875,"end":15635.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15635.81534375,"end":15636.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15636.000968750002,"end":15636.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15636.06846875,"end":15636.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15636.13596875,"end":15636.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15636.28784375,"end":15637.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15637.92471875,"end":15638.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15638.093468750001,"end":15638.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15639.595343750003,"end":15639.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15639.61221875,"end":15639.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15641.18159375,"end":15642.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15643.88159375,"end":15645.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15647.239718750003,"end":15650.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15650.78346875,"end":15652.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15652.96034375,"end":15653.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15653.78721875,"end":15655.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15657.516593750002,"end":15658.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15659.035343750002,"end":15659.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15659.524718750003,"end":15660.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15660.992843750002,"end":15664.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15662.49471875,"end":15665.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15664.249718750001,"end":15671.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15672.56909375,"end":15673.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15674.15534375,"end":15678.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15679.555343750002,"end":15696.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15697.03784375,"end":15698.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15698.860343750002,"end":15706.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15705.981593750003,"end":15714.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15714.38534375,"end":15721.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15714.402218750001,"end":15716.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15717.38909375,"end":15724.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15724.24034375,"end":15736.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15725.219093750002,"end":15729.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15738.263468750003,"end":15738.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15739.17471875,"end":15742.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15739.664093750001,"end":15741.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15741.85784375,"end":15744.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15744.996593750002,"end":15745.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15745.03034375,"end":15745.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15745.064093750003,"end":15745.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15745.35096875,"end":15752.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15745.367843750002,"end":15747.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15751.577843750001,"end":15752.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15752.03346875,"end":15752.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15752.117843750002,"end":15752.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15752.57346875,"end":15755.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15752.590343750002,"end":15753.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15756.977843750003,"end":15760.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15761.58471875,"end":15777.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15778.78034375,"end":15780.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15781.581593750001,"end":15788.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15783.94409375,"end":15785.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15789.074093750001,"end":15792.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15792.449093750001,"end":15798.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15792.499718750001,"end":15792.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15798.574718750002,"end":15803.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15798.60846875,"end":15810.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15810.707843750002,"end":15818.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15811.652843750002,"end":15816.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15816.79971875,"end":15822.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15822.790343750003,"end":15839.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15830.77221875,"end":15835.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15837.488468750002,"end":15841.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15842.179718750001,"end":15844.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15843.394718750002,"end":15851.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15846.027218750001,"end":15846.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15849.06471875,"end":15849.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15850.245968750001,"end":15852.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15852.92909375,"end":15857.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15856.202843750001,"end":15858.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15858.008468750002,"end":15858.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15858.34596875,"end":15874.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15858.852218750002,"end":15859.341593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15859.544093750003,"end":15860.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15875.71034375,"end":15878.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15879.13596875,"end":15885.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15886.324718750002,"end":15887.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15888.09659375,"end":15896.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15897.141593750002,"end":15899.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15900.38159375,"end":15901.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15900.617843750002,"end":15907.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15903.351593750001,"end":15904.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15905.562218750001,"end":15906.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15906.591593750003,"end":15909.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15908.71784375,"end":15909.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15909.966593750003,"end":15912.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15911.468468750001,"end":15921.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15922.251593750003,"end":15929.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15929.355968750002,"end":15935.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15934.907843750003,"end":15940.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15936.81471875,"end":15937.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15939.34596875,"end":15957.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15940.88159375,"end":15943.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15949.065968750001,"end":15951.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15955.613468750002,"end":15961.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15958.110968750003,"end":15958.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15960.91221875,"end":15966.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15967.223468750002,"end":15978.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15979.27221875,"end":15983.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15983.372843750003,"end":15987.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15987.65909375,"end":15988.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15989.12721875,"end":15989.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15990.308468750001,"end":15991.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15991.92846875,"end":16000.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16002.62721875,"end":16011.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16006.086593750002,"end":16006.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16009.157843750003,"end":16009.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16011.43596875,"end":16015.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16012.02659375,"end":16012.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16016.633468750002,"end":16016.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16016.65034375,"end":16017.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16017.004718750002,"end":16019.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16017.055343750002,"end":16019.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16020.09284375,"end":16020.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16020.109718750002,"end":16020.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16020.210968750001,"end":16020.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16020.56534375,"end":16020.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16020.66659375,"end":16024.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16021.08846875,"end":16025.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16025.88096875,"end":16033.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16027.21409375,"end":16029.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16032.27659375,"end":16033.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16033.74471875,"end":16033.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16033.778468750003,"end":16042.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16034.36909375,"end":16035.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16035.58409375,"end":16035.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16039.49909375,"end":16040.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16040.680343750002,"end":16064.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16046.586593750002,"end":16049.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16056.171593750001,"end":16063.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16064.28846875,"end":16064.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16064.59221875,"end":16087.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16066.49909375,"end":16066.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16066.54971875,"end":16067.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16067.612843750001,"end":16067.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16070.751593750003,"end":16071.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16071.03846875,"end":16073.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16075.763468750003,"end":16076.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16078.68284375,"end":16079.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16088.082218750002,"end":16089.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16088.85846875,"end":16089.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16089.48284375,"end":16095.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16089.499718750001,"end":16089.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16089.769718750002,"end":16090.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16090.44471875,"end":16090.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16090.49534375,"end":16091.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16091.28846875,"end":16091.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16091.895968750003,"end":16091.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16091.929718750001,"end":16091.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16091.96346875,"end":16092.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16092.030968750001,"end":16093.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16093.212218750003,"end":16093.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16093.245968750001,"end":16093.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16093.262843750003,"end":16093.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16094.39346875,"end":16094.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16094.427218750003,"end":16095.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16095.675968750002,"end":16098.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16098.76409375,"end":16106.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16106.745968750001,"end":16108.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16106.762843750003,"end":16106.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16106.965343750002,"end":16107.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16122.81096875,"end":16125.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16125.61221875,"end":16126.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16131.04596875,"end":16131.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16131.062843750002,"end":16131.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16131.78846875,"end":16133.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16133.93159375,"end":16134.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16135.011593750001,"end":16137.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16138.133468750002,"end":16139.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16139.68596875,"end":16161.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16161.606593750003,"end":16180.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16181.316593750002,"end":16183.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16183.814093750003,"end":16186.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16187.25659375,"end":16194.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16194.20909375,"end":16195.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16195.96409375,"end":16200.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16202.005343750003,"end":16210.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16210.527218750001,"end":16214.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16214.982218750003,"end":16214.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16214.99909375,"end":16215.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16215.77534375,"end":16216.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16215.876593750003,"end":16217.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16216.68659375,"end":16221.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16218.84659375,"end":16220.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16221.512843750003,"end":16229.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16229.81534375,"end":16231.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16232.532218750002,"end":16233.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16234.574093750001,"end":16237.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16237.476593750001,"end":16239.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16239.585968750001,"end":16239.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16240.075343750003,"end":16241.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16241.594093750002,"end":16245.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16242.72471875,"end":16243.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16245.964718750001,"end":16246.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16247.01096875,"end":16251.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16252.090343750002,"end":16264.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16265.67471875,"end":16268.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16270.04534375,"end":16274.517218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16272.390968750002,"end":16276.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16276.390343750001,"end":16278.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16278.80346875,"end":16286.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16287.44346875,"end":16288.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16288.489718750003,"end":16291.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16291.56096875,"end":16292.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16292.489093750002,"end":16294.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16295.003468750001,"end":16296.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16296.89346875,"end":16297.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16298.15909375,"end":16299.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16299.880343750003,"end":16305.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16306.512218750002,"end":16309.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16310.055968750003,"end":16311.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16311.726593750001,"end":16312.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16313.12721875,"end":16318.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16318.493468750003,"end":16319.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16320.214718750001,"end":16324.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16323.927218750003,"end":16323.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16324.112843750001,"end":16324.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16324.16346875,"end":16328.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16324.19721875,"end":16324.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16329.25971875,"end":16330.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16330.609718750002,"end":16332.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16333.02284375,"end":16337.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16338.50721875,"end":16341.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16342.28721875,"end":16345.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16345.392218750003,"end":16347.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16348.04159375,"end":16352.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16352.90159375,"end":16353.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16353.137843750003,"end":16353.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16354.015343750001,"end":16356.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16354.926593750002,"end":16358.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16359.735968750003,"end":16363.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16364.69721875,"end":16364.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16365.11909375,"end":16365.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16365.86159375,"end":16367.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16368.24096875,"end":16373.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16373.82659375,"end":16380.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16381.26846875,"end":16382.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16382.80409375,"end":16385.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16386.600968749997,"end":16388.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16388.45721875,"end":16393.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16393.654718750004,"end":16417.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16417.718468749998,"end":16418.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16418.039093749998,"end":16427.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16427.55659375,"end":16438.491593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16439.099093750003,"end":16441.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16441.46159375,"end":16450.624718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16451.569718749997,"end":16461.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16461.981593750003,"end":16464.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16464.765968749998,"end":16472.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16473.169718750003,"end":16483.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16483.44659375,"end":16500.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16500.84471875,"end":16503.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16503.257843749998,"end":16505.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16505.60346875,"end":16506.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16506.68346875,"end":16508.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16509.771593750003,"end":16510.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16510.64909375,"end":16511.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16511.661593750003,"end":16512.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16511.71221875,"end":16511.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16512.707843750002,"end":16515.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16515.458468750003,"end":16520.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16520.89221875,"end":16521.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16522.022843749997,"end":16524.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16525.11096875,"end":16525.499093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16525.73534375,"end":16528.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16529.00909375,"end":16530.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16530.59534375,"end":16534.679093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16535.168468750002,"end":16536.670343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16537.075343750003,"end":16539.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16540.11284375,"end":16542.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16542.779093750003,"end":16546.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16545.411593750003,"end":16548.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16548.97221875,"end":16559.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16559.73846875,"end":16562.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16563.366593749997,"end":16565.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16565.475968749997,"end":16567.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16568.125343749998,"end":16571.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16572.14159375,"end":16572.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16573.10346875,"end":16575.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16576.005968750003,"end":16577.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16578.18284375,"end":16581.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16581.64221875,"end":16583.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16583.65034375,"end":16588.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16586.80596875,"end":16593.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16588.84784375,"end":16589.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16591.514093750004,"end":16591.750343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16593.97784375,"end":16599.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16599.90096875,"end":16610.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16610.85284375,"end":16612.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16613.114093750002,"end":16615.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16616.522843749997,"end":16622.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16623.239093750002,"end":16653.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16649.648468749998,"end":16649.749718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16654.12034375,"end":16664.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16665.59534375,"end":16668.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16669.10534375,"end":16672.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16672.46346875,"end":16676.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16676.918468750002,"end":16680.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16681.84596875,"end":16687.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16688.224718750003,"end":16691.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16692.29159375,"end":16703.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16704.08721875,"end":16712.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16712.64284375,"end":16714.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16714.75221875,"end":16715.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16716.11909375,"end":16717.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16717.992218749998,"end":16718.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16719.257843749998,"end":16734.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16735.272218750004,"end":16738.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16738.90034375,"end":16741.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16742.207843750002,"end":16745.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16745.700968750003,"end":16746.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16747.084718750004,"end":16750.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16751.168468750002,"end":16755.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16756.028468750003,"end":16768.617218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16766.84534375,"end":16766.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16767.79034375,"end":16770.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16771.148468749998,"end":16786.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16786.04909375,"end":16788.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16788.46221875,"end":16791.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16789.86284375,"end":16790.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16791.719093749998,"end":16796.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16794.014093750004,"end":16794.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16795.33034375,"end":16813.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16814.09534375,"end":16816.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16817.301593750002,"end":16823.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16824.152843750002,"end":16830.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16830.531593749998,"end":16855.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16856.434718750003,"end":16864.382843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16864.85534375,"end":16868.280968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16869.327218749997,"end":16869.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16869.36096875,"end":16869.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16869.614093750002,"end":16899.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16872.921593749998,"end":16872.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16873.005968750003,"end":16873.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16873.07346875,"end":16873.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16900.107218750003,"end":16925.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16926.162218750003,"end":16934.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16935.29159375,"end":16941.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16941.95721875,"end":16960.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16960.70534375,"end":16962.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16963.489718750003,"end":16964.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16965.497843750003,"end":16966.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16966.999718749998,"end":16968.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16969.22721875,"end":16972.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16972.39971875,"end":16981.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16983.317843750003,"end":16985.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16987.40159375,"end":17000.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17001.576593750004,"end":17003.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17002.234718749998,"end":17008.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17008.91721875,"end":17009.507843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17010.030968749998,"end":17019.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17019.919718750003,"end":17022.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17023.15971875,"end":17040.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17040.65909375,"end":17043.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17044.388468750003,"end":17052.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17052.03284375,"end":17052.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17052.606593750003,"end":17052.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17052.707843750002,"end":17052.741593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17052.741593749997,"end":17052.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17052.825968750003,"end":17053.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17053.450343750003,"end":17055.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17055.94784375,"end":17060.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17061.060968750004,"end":17064.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17064.50346875,"end":17070.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17071.03409375,"end":17075.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17074.982843750004,"end":17075.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17075.607218750003,"end":17075.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17075.97846875,"end":17077.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17077.66596875,"end":17083.420343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17082.30659375,"end":17082.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17082.82971875,"end":17092.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17092.515968749998,"end":17097.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17097.17346875,"end":17102.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17104.88534375,"end":17105.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17106.083468750003,"end":17107.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17109.01971875,"end":17109.374093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17109.86346875,"end":17111.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17113.42409375,"end":17114.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17114.942843750003,"end":17123.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17124.47721875,"end":17125.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17125.87784375,"end":17127.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17128.037843750004,"end":17129.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17129.86034375,"end":17139.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17140.069718749997,"end":17141.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17142.398468749998,"end":17144.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17145.030968749998,"end":17156.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17147.629718750002,"end":17147.646593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":17147.646593750003,"end":17147.781593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17147.781593749998,"end":17148.085343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17156.843468749998,"end":17181.413468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17181.56534375,"end":17190.593468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17191.16721875,"end":17193.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17193.512843750003,"end":17226.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17227.31346875,"end":17235.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17227.33034375,"end":17227.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17236.59471875,"end":17237.522843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17237.927843750003,"end":17240.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17240.560343750003,"end":17241.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17242.163468749997,"end":17247.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17247.749093749997,"end":17260.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17260.55721875,"end":17267.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17267.08784375,"end":17267.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17267.20596875,"end":17289.717218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17267.40846875,"end":17267.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17289.98721875,"end":17318.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17319.130343750003,"end":17320.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17321.172218749998,"end":17330.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17331.060968750004,"end":17335.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17336.37659375,"end":17354.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17355.124718749998,"end":17360.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17360.65971875,"end":17373.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17374.109093749998,"end":17379.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17380.943468750003,"end":17383.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17384.67284375,"end":17385.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17386.343468749998,"end":17387.288468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17387.64284375,"end":17388.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17389.41471875,"end":17393.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17394.021593750003,"end":17427.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17427.95721875,"end":17430.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17430.65721875,"end":17432.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17433.492218749998,"end":17439.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17440.71471875,"end":17453.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17453.45534375,"end":17466.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17466.246593750002,"end":17466.600968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17466.600968749997,"end":17473.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17474.02596875,"end":17475.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17475.865343750003,"end":17488.319093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17488.622843750003,"end":17506.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17507.37096875,"end":17520.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17521.343468749998,"end":17523.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17524.11096875,"end":17534.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17535.19784375,"end":17536.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17537.30721875,"end":17539.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17540.02409375,"end":17541.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17542.116593749997,"end":17546.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17545.93034375,"end":17545.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17546.453468749998,"end":17561.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17562.231593750003,"end":17577.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17577.16596875,"end":17580.186593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17580.67596875,"end":17585.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17585.83971875,"end":17628.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":17629.47846875,"end":17640.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17639.114093750002,"end":17646.741593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17647.01159375,"end":17651.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17652.39471875,"end":17665.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17665.67534375,"end":17669.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17669.387843750003,"end":17676.677843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17676.677843750003,"end":17676.694718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17676.694718749997,"end":17676.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17676.82971875,"end":17676.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17676.86346875,"end":17676.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17677.082843750002,"end":17678.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17679.512843750003,"end":17679.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17680.677218750003,"end":17681.959718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17682.364718750003,"end":17684.912843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17684.94659375,"end":17687.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17687.68034375,"end":17690.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17690.414093749998,"end":17695.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17695.763468750003,"end":17710.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17706.91784375,"end":17707.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17708.959718750004,"end":17721.109718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17710.950968750003,"end":17712.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17721.312218749998,"end":17729.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17739.28409375,"end":17744.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17745.156593749998,"end":17745.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17750.79284375,"end":17750.944718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":17750.944718749997,"end":17751.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17751.653468750003,"end":17752.851593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17753.442218750002,"end":17765.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17765.87909375,"end":17775.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17776.054718749998,"end":17782.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17782.82159375,"end":17787.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17787.934718750003,"end":17799.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17800.287218750003,"end":17806.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17807.91471875,"end":17813.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17813.82096875,"end":17826.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17816.757218749997,"end":17816.858468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17827.25346875,"end":17829.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17829.514718749997,"end":17835.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17835.842843749997,"end":17851.030343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17852.21159375,"end":17855.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17855.60346875,"end":17857.375343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17857.797218749998,"end":17859.467843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":17860.092218750004,"end":17860.328468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":17860.851593749998,"end":17865.154718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17863.669718750003,"end":17864.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17865.154718750004,"end":17866.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17866.47096875,"end":17866.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17867.888468750003,"end":17898.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17899.444718749997,"end":17902.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17902.98846875,"end":17904.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17905.739093750002,"end":17918.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17919.96471875,"end":17931.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17931.33846875,"end":17939.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17941.12596875,"end":17942.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17942.40846875,"end":17942.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17942.442218750002,"end":17942.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17942.81346875,"end":17942.999093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17942.999093749997,"end":17944.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17944.230968750002,"end":17944.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17944.85534375,"end":17946.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":17947.015343749998,"end":17950.694093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17948.09534375,"end":17949.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17950.694093750004,"end":17952.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17952.887843750003,"end":17968.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":17955.216593750003,"end":17955.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17969.594093749998,"end":17970.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17971.365968750004,"end":18032.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18032.824718750002,"end":18046.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18047.607218750003,"end":18055.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18056.162843750004,"end":18058.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18056.770343750002,"end":18057.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18058.609718749998,"end":18059.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18059.115968750004,"end":18064.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18060.44909375,"end":18061.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18061.410968750002,"end":18061.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18063.419093750003,"end":18064.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18064.95471875,"end":18064.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18064.97159375,"end":18074.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18065.005343750003,"end":18065.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18067.857218750003,"end":18068.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18068.02596875,"end":18068.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18068.160968750002,"end":18068.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18075.11346875,"end":18084.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18084.529718750004,"end":18094.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18087.97221875,"end":18088.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18094.215968750003,"end":18094.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18094.36784375,"end":18097.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18096.93284375,"end":18097.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18097.287218750003,"end":18108.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18100.72971875,"end":18101.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18101.23596875,"end":18101.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18108.52596875,"end":18109.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18109.89284375,"end":18130.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18129.467843749997,"end":18130.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18130.15971875,"end":18139.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18139.491593749997,"end":18140.014718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18144.26721875,"end":18144.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18144.334718750004,"end":18144.351593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18144.351593749998,"end":18145.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18144.48659375,"end":18144.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18146.646593750003,"end":18154.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18147.270968750003,"end":18149.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18155.23596875,"end":18156.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18156.974093750003,"end":18161.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18158.52659375,"end":18158.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18160.19721875,"end":18168.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18162.559718750003,"end":18164.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18168.162218750003,"end":18168.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18168.398468749998,"end":18180.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18180.78471875,"end":18182.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18182.96159375,"end":18185.796593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18186.57284375,"end":18193.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18193.896593750003,"end":18197.811593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18198.16596875,"end":18201.389093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18201.625343749998,"end":18202.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18203.093468749998,"end":18206.249093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18206.569718749997,"end":18209.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18209.320343749998,"end":18211.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18212.020343750002,"end":18215.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18213.623468750004,"end":18217.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18217.757843749998,"end":18219.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18219.614093750002,"end":18223.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18223.242218749998,"end":18233.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18228.74346875,"end":18229.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18230.78534375,"end":18231.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18233.029718750004,"end":18236.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18234.902843750002,"end":18235.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18237.18096875,"end":18237.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18237.552218750003,"end":18237.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18237.61971875,"end":18243.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":18238.54784375,"end":18238.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18238.56471875,"end":18240.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18243.96471875,"end":18244.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18244.79159375,"end":18244.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18245.29784375,"end":18252.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18251.22096875,"end":18252.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18252.72284375,"end":18252.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18253.178468750004,"end":18263.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18263.87721875,"end":18266.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18264.248468750004,"end":18264.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18264.265343749998,"end":18264.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18266.91471875,"end":18276.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18277.107218750003,"end":18281.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18282.287843750004,"end":18289.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18290.944718749997,"end":18291.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18292.22721875,"end":18292.952843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18293.91471875,"end":18297.171593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18298.06596875,"end":18302.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18298.200968750003,"end":18299.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18302.47034375,"end":18306.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18306.40221875,"end":18306.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18306.857843750004,"end":18307.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18307.887218750002,"end":18315.109718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18315.109718749998,"end":18315.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18315.46409375,"end":18338.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18319.88534375,"end":18320.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18320.64471875,"end":18320.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18321.67409375,"end":18321.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18321.97784375,"end":18322.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18322.93971875,"end":18323.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18323.26034375,"end":18323.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18325.757843749998,"end":18326.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18335.342843749997,"end":18335.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18335.764718749997,"end":18335.781593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18338.32971875,"end":18342.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18343.020968750003,"end":18343.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18343.965968750003,"end":18346.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18346.98659375,"end":18356.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18357.246593750002,"end":18363.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18363.74346875,"end":18364.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18364.48596875,"end":18365.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18364.51971875,"end":18369.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18369.615968750004,"end":18370.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18371.084093750003,"end":18374.999093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18375.184718750003,"end":18376.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18377.108468749997,"end":18377.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18378.30659375,"end":18381.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18381.98534375,"end":18387.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18387.537218750003,"end":18389.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18388.98846875,"end":18391.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18390.97971875,"end":18391.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18391.958468750003,"end":18393.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18393.764093750004,"end":18396.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18396.075968750003,"end":18400.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18396.953468749998,"end":18397.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18400.615343750003,"end":18406.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18405.255968750003,"end":18413.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18412.57971875,"end":18421.405343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18416.562218749998,"end":18417.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18417.10221875,"end":18417.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18417.45659375,"end":18418.334093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18420.848468750002,"end":18421.844093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18422.09721875,"end":18423.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18423.66659375,"end":18423.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18423.700343750003,"end":18423.717218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18423.717218750004,"end":18425.202218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18424.69596875,"end":18425.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18425.843468749998,"end":18426.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18426.147218750004,"end":18427.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18427.919093750003,"end":18430.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18431.125343749998,"end":18437.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18437.200343750003,"end":18442.937843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18443.325968750003,"end":18446.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18446.397218750004,"end":18448.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18449.535968750002,"end":18450.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18451.155968749998,"end":18454.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18454.22721875,"end":18457.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18457.686593749997,"end":18463.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18463.795343750004,"end":18482.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18482.459093750003,"end":18494.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18495.50346875,"end":18506.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18505.679093749997,"end":18505.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18506.725343750004,"end":18509.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18509.965343750002,"end":18510.015968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18510.015968749998,"end":18510.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18510.04971875,"end":18510.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18510.87659375,"end":18515.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18515.31471875,"end":18517.795343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18518.04846875,"end":18519.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18519.887843750003,"end":18520.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18520.731593750003,"end":18521.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18521.592218750004,"end":18529.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18530.40096875,"end":18531.717218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18532.10534375,"end":18538.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18538.83846875,"end":18551.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18552.11909375,"end":18557.350343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18557.94096875,"end":18558.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18559.965968750003,"end":18560.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18560.725343750004,"end":18564.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18564.319718749997,"end":18565.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18566.17596875,"end":18568.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18568.319093750004,"end":18569.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18568.842218750004,"end":18570.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18570.56346875,"end":18575.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18575.94659375,"end":18578.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18578.562218749998,"end":18579.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18579.608468749997,"end":18587.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18587.57346875,"end":18588.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18589.44659375,"end":18591.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18589.530968749998,"end":18589.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18591.13409375,"end":18596.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18595.319093750004,"end":18598.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18597.24284375,"end":18601.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18602.13659375,"end":18604.718468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18605.41034375,"end":18613.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18608.34659375,"end":18610.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18611.41784375,"end":18612.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18613.42596875,"end":18618.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18617.00346875,"end":18627.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18628.25909375,"end":18631.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18628.71471875,"end":18629.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18629.03534375,"end":18629.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18629.20409375,"end":18629.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18630.773468749998,"end":18630.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18631.87034375,"end":18631.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18631.887218750002,"end":18632.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18632.207843750002,"end":18632.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18632.27534375,"end":18632.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18632.49471875,"end":18632.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18632.51159375,"end":18649.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18635.14409375,"end":18635.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18639.210968749998,"end":18641.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18643.429718749998,"end":18643.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18648.475343750004,"end":18648.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18648.86346875,"end":18648.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18650.21346875,"end":18657.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18656.693468750003,"end":18656.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18656.74409375,"end":18657.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18658.094093749998,"end":18670.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18660.507218749997,"end":18661.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18665.06346875,"end":18665.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18665.09721875,"end":18665.991593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18670.834718750004,"end":18673.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18674.108468749997,"end":18678.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18678.850343750004,"end":18684.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18678.934718750003,"end":18678.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18685.094093749998,"end":18685.937843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18686.08971875,"end":18689.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18687.304718749998,"end":18688.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18689.43096875,"end":18692.130968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18695.53971875,"end":18695.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18696.31596875,"end":18699.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18697.075343750003,"end":18701.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18700.905968749998,"end":18701.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18701.310968750004,"end":18701.749718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18702.10409375,"end":18702.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18702.93096875,"end":18707.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18707.217218750004,"end":18708.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18707.723468750002,"end":18707.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18708.465968750003,"end":18708.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":18711.655343749997,"end":18713.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":18714.54096875,"end":18715.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":18716.21159375,"end":18722.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":18722.590343750002,"end":18739.937843749998}],"whisperx":[{"start":1650.002,"end":1665.793,"text":"請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員11人已足法定人數現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議意思錄"},{"start":1668.072,"end":1682.193,"text":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第24全體委員會議議事錄時間115年1月7日星期三上午9時至12時45分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員高金素美委員等13人列席委員林德福委員等34人"},{"start":1683.614,"end":1706.321,"text":"請假委員 丁學忠委員一人列席官員 內政部政務次長馬詩媛暨相關人員大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑暨相關人員法務部政務次長徐錫翔暨相關人員原住民組委員會副主任委員杜彰梅莊行政院國家安全局國防部司法院海洋委員會外交部經濟部財政部交通部農業部衛生福利部數位發展部考試院權序部教育部"},{"start":1706.921,"end":1731.61,"text":"行政院人事 行政總署 國家通訊傳播委員會國家科學及技術委員會 金融監督管理委員會國軍退出役官兵輔導委員會等機關代表及相關人員主席王昭紀委員 美會討論事項 依審查行政院函請審議國家安全法部分條文修正草案繼續審查國家安全法修正草案計9案審查國家安全法修正草案計12案"},{"start":1733.19,"end":1753.08,"text":"討論事項和並詢答台灣民眾黨黨團代表麥玉珍委員說明提案要旨內政部政務次長馬世元大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑法務部政務次長徐錫祥報告委員蘇巧慧等17人質詢由法務部政務次長徐錫祥內政部政務次長馬世元經濟部智慧財產局局長廖承威大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑"},{"start":1754.06,"end":1782.021,"text":"司法院刑事廳法官黃湘瑩答覆說明登記發言委員除不在場者外其議均已發言完畢詢答結束委員吳啟明 丁薛忠 林倩啟所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關機關於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會決議一 於三月底前召開兩場公聽會原則上國民黨團 民進黨團各召開一場公聽會二 討論事項所列議案均另定期繼續審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":1785.6,"end":1797.378,"text":"請問各位委員 設置會議意識度有錯誤或遺漏無錯誤意識度確定那繼續進行本日議程報告事項請宣讀"},{"start":1800.137,"end":1818.589,"text":"邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況並備質詢邀請內政部部長就賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討進行專題報告並備質詢宣讀完畢"},{"start":1828.847,"end":1855.243,"text":"本日議程報告事項合併詢答現在介紹在場的委員跟列席的官員那首先介紹我們的召委王美惠委員蘇曉慧委員黃婕委員張志倫委員原住民組委員會主委曾志勇"},{"start":1858.086,"end":1885.419,"text":"副主委古仲副主委杜章美莊財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長馬拉歐斯那還有財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長馬耀古木內政部部長劉世芳"},{"start":1888.021,"end":1895.551,"text":"代理署長朱慶倫國家住宅及都市更新中心董事長花敬群"},{"start":1903.84,"end":1931.811,"text":"那在今天會議開始之前本席有件事情要先表達就是我們內政委員會今天安排內政部的專題報告名稱就是賴清德總統新建13萬戶的社會住宅政策無法落實是檢討我想但是內政部沒有經過我們內政委員會的同意就算是更改我們這個專題的報告名稱我想這個非常不尊重立法院他同時也代表不願意來承認這個政策上的疏失那本席在這邊要表達非常嚴正的譴責"},{"start":1932.831,"end":1945.784,"text":"我想未來也要請中央部會務必要尊重我們立法院的這個職權那現在先請我們原住民主委員會的曾主委自用報告"},{"start":1956.127,"end":1985.016,"text":"主席 各位委員先進感謝立法院長期以來對研民會業務的支持那麼以下就針對本會的業務的推動以及執行的境況則要進行報告第一我們制度化保障原住民族各項的權益平埔原住民族群生活法在一百一十四年十一月十七日大宴審議通過本會目前正受理九個民族的申請認定案"},{"start":1986.738,"end":2016.356,"text":"并且启动民族研究的调查为了要落实部落自治的精神本会推动部落公法人事办计划显定四个部落示范将会持续的来检视事办的成效另外114年也完成两个T4的原住民自治猎枪安全使用信念的课程将持续收集课程的经验并扩大办理"},{"start":2017.134,"end":2042.736,"text":"來回應族人受信的需求第二推動以及制定原住民族土地法案及權益保障的措施本會推動原住民保留地全力回復以及管理利用條例草案已經完成預告並呈報行政院審議中同時114年10月召開原住民保留地開發管理辦法延商會議"},{"start":2045.053,"end":2062.698,"text":"將滾動式的修正部分條文以強化災害韌性與文化的傳承此外111年已經公告三個部落的原住民族土地或部落範圍的土地我們將持續推動傳統領域的公告作業第三"},{"start":2063.237,"end":2083.407,"text":"我們要發展原住民族教育以及傳承文化強化原住民族運動人才的發展推動原住民族運動人才育成方案114年度執行補助頂尖以及淺幽的選手我們並協助25所重點學校改善訓練場地以設備"},{"start":2085.828,"end":2112.462,"text":"提供选手和教练训练以及参赛的相关的费用为了要凝聚世界原住民族的情感我们举办第一届世界原住民族传统运动会邀请来自十个国家28个队伍1130多位的选手2500人以上来参与开幕国立原住民族博物馆"},{"start":2113.45,"end":2139.885,"text":"自籌備處成立以後軟體硬體的工作我們同步進行在114年9月19日我們召開了第一次的執行以及審議委員的會議共同研議未來的規劃與方向另外硬體建設方面我們目前正在進行驗景管的工程與內部設計工作另外針對前期興建的規劃目前我們正在進行"},{"start":2140.393,"end":2165.549,"text":"建築設計淨土招標作業透過擴大邀請各地優秀建築師來角逐研博館的建築設計作為研博館未來的草圖第四我們提升研俱民族健康的照顧網路本會在全國13個縣市共設置66家的研家中心持續提供個案的服務"},{"start":2166.974,"end":2185.703,"text":"团体与社区工作以协助脆弱家庭补强社会安全机制并且在全国设置了532个文化健康站我们照顾了接近18500多名的长辈第五强化原住民族经济产业的韧性"},{"start":2187.912,"end":2214.147,"text":"本會從111年起就推動原住民族遂時寄宜文化旅遊計畫媒合旅行業者落實文化體驗以及深度旅遊的目標每年有5到7個族群參與到114年已經有35家旅行社32個部落旅遊執行單位創造近千萬元的產值並且帶動部落經濟的發展"},{"start":2215.666,"end":2244.415,"text":"未来将透过智慧科技与环境永续的引导进一步强化产业转型以回应产业发展趋势第六 我们也营造营积 移积的环境以及文化传承的公共空间为了要建构部落移积生活环境我们已经完成421个案的整体规划推动防检灾的工程以及文化景观的改善"},{"start":2245.575,"end":2268.301,"text":"同時為創造安全的道路交通環境114年以核定特色道路改善計畫共58案並且補助連絡道路的養護希望能夠全面提升部落地區的交通安全以上報告 敬請各位委員先進指教 謝謝大家謝謝曾主委 接下來我們請內政部劉部長釋放報告"},{"start":2286.896,"end":2301.586,"text":"主席召委 各位委員女士先生大家早感謝各位委員對內政業務的關心指導今天大院內政委員會召開會議內政部針對住宅政策推動的部分整體簡要的說明如下"},{"start":2302.646,"end":2330.181,"text":"住宅法在民國100年立法完成並且在隔年101年公布實施立法以後社會住宅開辦的初期僅有零星興辦直到106年民國106年行政院以8年興辦20萬戶社會住宅為目標也就是106到113年並且在106年1月公布修正住宅法為推動社會住宅機制建立了法治的基礎"},{"start":2331.101,"end":2359.205,"text":"行政院並且在106年3月核定社會住宅新辦計畫結合政府興建與包租代管民間業者兩種供給方案增加供給的資源事後行政院在民國112年12月14日第3884次院會被查推動社會住宅成果與提升社宅用地供給精進措施除了直接興建包租代管以外"},{"start":2359.805,"end":2377.617,"text":"增加租金補貼措施擴大社會住宅量能8年達到100萬戶為目標推動了百萬租屋家庭支持計畫也就是114年到121年以達成穩定住宅市場以及安定人民居住的目標"},{"start":2378.678,"end":2383.063,"text":"截至114年12月底 全國社宅已經達成227,483戶其中直接興辦社宅已經達成122,680戶中央興辦7138戶 地方興辦52542戶"},{"start":2398.92,"end":2403.866,"text":"包租代管社宅有效契約數一共有104,803戶另外300億元中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫申請戶數108273戶累計合併的戶數為913,867戶"},{"start":2419.622,"end":2445.272,"text":"然而台灣面臨都會核心地區宿地稀缺高空污率以及高污齡等多重挑戰同時在推動百萬戶租屋家庭支持計畫的過程當中仍需要審視國家社會情勢的變化包括少子化人口結構趨勢氣候變遷減碳調適公有土地稀缺政府整體財政等等等等因素"},{"start":2446.192,"end":2469.011,"text":"持续适度的滚动调整社会住宅政策的推动策略第一由于目前都会区整体屋龄老旧都更不易而租屋需求仍集中在都会区域尤其是淡黄区为了精准因应租屋需求中央将针对人口成长或是社宅供给不足的地区除了持续透过"},{"start":2470.552,"end":2497.326,"text":"盤點國公有土地整體開發促參都市更新分回等多元化的方式來擴充社會住宅供應量能未來推動重點將放在台北新北桃園台中等都會區地方也應繼續運用市有土地通盤考量人口產業發展通勤情形等因素與中央共同努力來落實興辦設宅"},{"start":2499.207,"end":2519.5,"text":"其次依據住宅法第19條包租代管符合社宅的定義透過擴大包租代管方式引導低度利用空餘屋進入租屋市場增加社會住宅的供給量截至114年12月底包租代管社會住宅有效契約數已經達到104,803戶"},{"start":2523.082,"end":2550.555,"text":"其中經濟及弱勢社會弱勢戶佔43%合計有44984戶確實保障弱勢族群的居住需求未來包租代管更將以每年新增3萬戶為目標持續來推動第三除了直接興建新辦社會住宅為立即協助租屋家庭租金補貼可減緩租屋家庭的負擔"},{"start":2551.295,"end":2565.504,"text":"使現行租屋家庭在不需要搬遷下即可受惠的立即性需求截至114年12月底至租金補貼申請戶數為108萬戶累計合併戶數為91萬戶以上累計合撥戶數為65萬戶補貼最多的直轄縣市前三名依序為台中市、新北市及桃園市"},{"start":2579.013,"end":2598.691,"text":"針對租金補貼滿意度調查非常滿意及滿意合計達70.9%此外我曾代表內政部率同我們的同仁分別在今年的1月9號跟去年的12月底拜會新北市侯友宜市長以及桃園市長詹上正"},{"start":2599.452,"end":2622.98,"text":"以及團隊兩個市府在住宅政策推動成效顯著且有目共睹侯市長 張市長皆當場表示會積極配合中央訂定的多元新辦包租代管 租金補貼 設宅三軌政策與中央攜手合作持續推動並且指示該市府團隊繼續擴大租屋公共支持的量能"},{"start":2623.9,"end":2650.755,"text":"綜合以上 從106年到現在社會住宅累計層封鎖直接興辦社會住宅已經超過12.2萬戶社宅包租代管有效契約數超過10萬戶以及租金補貼累計合訂件數逾91萬件合計已經超過110萬戶也就是超過百萬戶的家庭獲得政府的照顧與支持"},{"start":2651.315,"end":2680.755,"text":"最後 務實性 可及性 精準性的推動社會住宅政策是當前政府協助中低收入 社會弱勢以及壽星階級居住安穩的具體行動隨著20萬戶社會住宅於113年底達標以後中央將持續和地方政府共同合作也持續為落實推動百萬租屋家庭支持計畫加速滿足租屋與青年族群居住的需求"},{"start":2682.576,"end":2705.178,"text":"實質減輕國人居住的負擔 以上簡要的報告請各位委員指教 謝謝其他單位的報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報現在進行詢問 委員質詢前原力做幾點宣告"},{"start":2706.383,"end":2733.717,"text":"第一每會委員發言時間本會委員5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘上午10點30分截止截止發言登記那今天臨時提案截止提出的時間是11點那在我們本委會詢答完畢後處理請問各位同仁有沒有意見沒有意見我們現在進行詢答請登記第一位的舒喬會委員發言"},{"start":2745.482,"end":2748.684,"text":"好謝謝主席我們要請袁明慧曾主委請曾主委委員好"},{"start":2754.813,"end":2777.069,"text":"主委好我想我今天還是要就我們原來的主題這個園民會的業務報告也就是向園民會來就教所以園民會其實在這麼多年來講我最關心的其實是我們都市原住民的生活而都市聚會所的建置也是我非常非常關心的一個題目"},{"start":2777.529,"end":2802.97,"text":"因為大家可以看到其實新北市的原住民人口在六都之中算是第二僅次於桃園也就是說全台灣每100位的都市原住民當中大概就20位是在新北市所以如何在這個地方在都市能夠讓我們的文化可以繼續傳承讓我們的碎石記憶活動可以順利的舉辦其實對都市原住民來講真的是非常重要的一件事情"},{"start":2803.57,"end":2816.722,"text":"好那主委我現在我們看到這個在2024年開始我們推動了一個計畫叫做建制原住民族群主流原住民族族群主流化友善公共空間計畫持續2024年到2027年那這個計畫其實"},{"start":2824.307,"end":2848.013,"text":"現在通過了幾案甚至是在前一陣子我們也有一起去會主委也有跟我們一起去會勘過那請問一下主委你覺得這個計畫反應如何現在執行的成效如何謝謝委員那這個計畫在就是去年底12月底我們已經核定補助12個案12個12個案那已經累計就是說我們核定的經費差不多有3億3千多萬那我們想說這個計畫執行的"},{"start":2853.25,"end":2878.839,"text":"執行的就是說部落族人很需要所以我想我們陸續還是會繼續來做這個協助跟補助就表示反應不錯就對了好我這邊有一個統計的數字是在六都的申請狀況你剛剛說有超過我現在你剛剛說有核定了12案但是如果是以我們六都因為我這裡是統計六都我目前統計出來的數字是7案那像新北的話申請的是兩案"},{"start":2879.639,"end":2909.219,"text":"合定的是一案我想這個合定的就是在2024年8月30號的時候主委你有和這個吳麗華委員吳清明委員一起去會刊過而他後來的這就是我們的龍恩普案喔龍恩普的這一案我們就合定而且是動工了動工的時候呢我也有去參與到現場確實是非常的漂亮而且符合大家的使用狀況可是那另外一案呢板橋的這一案為什麼沒有通過"},{"start":2911.48,"end":2937.829,"text":"這個標準到底是在哪裡因為這個跟那個我們的那個這個龍恩浦這個不太一樣那板橋這個案他部分他的設計都是會議室還有販賣空間的使用這個就比較不符合我們族群這個主流化的這個多功能的這個公共的服務的空間那我想我們也在跟新北市政府是不是"},{"start":2938.269,"end":2958.336,"text":"他的計畫要做一些修正是不是我們再來做對因為我現在你這個計畫既然大家都受歡迎而且也希望可以越做越多那這個標準的部分其實就應該可以要講得更清楚因為目前我們看到的標準呢其實是要可以讓讓這個我們的族群有傳承文化然後還有這個可以"},{"start":2963.718,"end":2991.042,"text":"原住民族文化傳承或提升原住民族社會福利這個概念其實是蠻空泛的如果你說我是做這個商場展售可是在這個商場展售如果是族人朋友自製的我們的文化產品啊等等之類的是不是某程度也可以符合呢還是我在展售的過程當中旁邊我也有對於我文化族群的介紹這個是不是就也符合這個標準是什麼"},{"start":2991.482,"end":3000.374,"text":"主委我是希望原民會這邊是不是可以更清楚的說明剛剛講委員講的那個就是屬於這個算是這個部落的託說據點但是沒關係"},{"start":3002.732,"end":3013.436,"text":"這個我們會跟市政府這裡再跟他們來做一個所以你的意思說現在的計畫其實要做的是遂時記憶場所的整建才符合現在這個計畫對不對目前是這樣目前是這樣所以板橋的這個因為它就是純室內而且是多會議室甚至是展售空間所以就不符合遂時記憶嘛如果這樣講的話那也可以反正標準講清楚"},{"start":3029.761,"end":3054.65,"text":"那我覺得大家就好做事而且會往這個方向來做事那好如果你是完全是遂時計那我就照主委這個方向來繼續前進的話那各位那個主委你看一下那我們現在再往下一層如果你說剛剛那個商場展售就不管了再怎麼符合文化傳承因為他都不是遂時計那個就不符合了好那我們來看你按照遂時計"},{"start":3056.01,"end":3064.375,"text":"的這個部分你要補助的話你現在是縣市政府提報但是是鄉鎮區鄉鎮區作為單位來提出嘛然後呢1500人如果這個該區該鄉鎮裡面有超過1500位的族人朋友的人口數的話就可以優先辦理那我把新北市的原住民人口數統計出來的話大約是這樣子的數字也就是說在"},{"start":3085.527,"end":3103.852,"text":"14號五谷區之前我們是超過1500人的可是15永和區之後其實就沒有到1500人那如果我要來提報這種碎石祭儀場所的參與補助計畫的話我後面這15項15到28是不是就幾乎不可能了尤其我還要跟全國來比是"},{"start":3105.652,"end":3133.858,"text":"就機會很難了對不對好那主委我在這裡想要特別提出既然我們現在是2024到2027的計畫也就是說他應該可以隨時滾動檢討嘛那我就以這個17號的瑞芳為例主委你也常常去瑞芳啊對不對瑞芳是一個很特別的地方我們的族人朋友人口數非常的多好如果我們這裡的統計數字就算是只有1197人好了可是他的文化活動"},{"start":3134.778,"end":3155.779,"text":"他的族人活動傳承活動其實是長遠高於其他地區他一年可能就8場10場都有所以主委我是建議你是不是可以在人口數之外另外還有一個指標他的活動舉辦次數到達多少的頻率如果他的人口數雖然不到1500"},{"start":3156.92,"end":3171.486,"text":"但是他的活動次數比例相當的高高於什麼平均你們園民會可以討論嘛那我覺得這樣子的鄉鎮也應該可以提報列為優先這個申請補助區域主委你同不同意我的建議謝謝韋的建議 我想我們會"},{"start":3173.707,"end":3200.76,"text":"可以考慮吧可以考慮然後列入來好我希望原民會列入考慮啦那另外我也在想提第二個建議第二個建議是說實在的你說如果要在新北市另外找一個地方就像龍恩埔這樣的地方可以蓋那麼大那麼漂亮的碎石記憶場所其實很困難坦白講就是有困難我們剛剛那29區大概很少有地方可以再找一片這樣的樹地台灣的地尤其是北部都會去就是地少"},{"start":3201.4,"end":3228.287,"text":"所以有沒有可能我們考慮另外一種補助方式就是在某一個空間不管它是戶外或是室內它這個空間我們可以讓它多功能使用就是說原住民族和漢族和客家等等其他族群其實我們共用這個空間原民會提供補助讓這個空間可以修繕具有原住民族舉辦碎石祭儀的功能"},{"start":3229.727,"end":3250.594,"text":"原民會補助所以讓那個空間比較好可是平常還是開放是大家一般都可以使用只是在歲時季的時候讓原住民朋友可以優先那段歲時季的時間讓原住民朋友優先使用這就符合了同一個空間在一整年的時間裡面其實各族群都可以來用"},{"start":3251.434,"end":3271.002,"text":"但有一個時間我們原住民族朋友族人朋友不用那麼辛苦的去找地方嘛在大家既然原民會補助了這個地方這麼漂亮那平常在碎石祭的時候就讓原住民族人朋友優先使用這個計畫可行嗎好可行我想就是說因為現在有好幾個館也是這樣子對嘛他平常"},{"start":3271.682,"end":3288.889,"text":"是客家朋友也在用對我們人民會也可以參考實用一下研究一下好不好好主委我以上提這兩個建議希望能夠解決都市部落聚會所的問題謝謝謝謝蘇橋會委員的質詢接下來請張志文委員發言好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉世芳部長請劉世芳部長"},{"start":3312.067,"end":3334.536,"text":"部長早部長先跟您說明一下今天我們專案報告的主題有一個有事關於全台灣的社會住宅賴總統當時在選前特別承諾在2032年要興建25萬社會住宅我跟各位報告一下25萬戶是如何來的就是蔡英文總統執政8年原本目標20萬戶興建12萬戶"},{"start":3337.917,"end":3362.183,"text":"所以賴清德總統他認為要比蔡英文總統多做一點所以他預計要興建13萬戶所以12加13就是25萬戶所以他在2032年才會提出興建全台灣25萬戶的社會住宅可是現在他的政策轉彎巧巧的把這個他的目標13萬戶下降到4萬戶所以我們現在今天我要幫我們的這個"},{"start":3363.503,"end":3387.612,"text":"招委說一句話所以今天我們的專案報告的內容主題才是賴清哲總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討所以內政部因為已經坦誠公開要從13萬戶下降到三四萬戶的社會住宅跟當時賴清哲總統的承諾相去甚遠是不是當時的評估發生了什麼問題是不是選舉的詐騙話術那是不是可以請這個"},{"start":3391.673,"end":3412.899,"text":"部長稍微簡單解釋一下謝謝張委員的關心第一個賴總統所提出的社宅的進度我們也都知道從蔡總統到現在為止照顧弱勢然後照顧很多年輕族群這是我們的基本方向所以事實上我剛在報告的時候已經特別提到"},{"start":3413.439,"end":3427.662,"text":"那行政院已經有提出一個全面性的檢討也就是三軌並進從社會住宅的興建包租代管跟租金補貼這三個一起來處理那當然了這裡會牽涉到我們在調整的時候怎麼樣更務實的調整跟委員報告我們從陸陸續續出來的這個租金補貼發現到說現在的社會住宅在興建的過程當中啊"},{"start":3436.764,"end":3465.567,"text":"其實它所需要的宿地都是集中在北北桃中這些淡黃區域也就是都市計畫密集區才是真正社會住宅需求的一個方向那既然是這個樣子的我們考慮到它的可行性還有它的立即性跟精準性所以我們在做務實性的調整那既然有務實性的調整的話那繼續盤點當中那同時我們也持續的在跟各縣市地方政府尤其是北北桃中的市政府"},{"start":3467.008,"end":3484.788,"text":"來協調因為在縣市長在不管是在選舉的時候或在執政的過程當中他們也非常的盡力要想要達成直接興建社會住宅那但是因為有這方面的調整那我想我們在調整的當中就是一樣希望中央政府跟地方政府大家一起來努力"},{"start":3485.373,"end":3512.238,"text":"好 謝謝部長所以剛剛您講的就證實應驗當時賴清德的13萬戶的社會住宅會下降成4萬多戶其實本席要在這邊講政府的政策不是不能調整可是對青年的保障跟所需要的人當時的承諾不能打折當時過去行政院明明也盤點了260處大概有多少萬戶的社會住宅的用地可是現在這個部長一句話就說這個覺得好像"},{"start":3513.424,"end":3535.171,"text":"土地太貴成效不足要來退回所以我覺得這有一點讓我本席相信我本身是支持社會住宅的可是這樣子的話是不是會您的講法會不會犧牲年輕人的居住正義那本席這邊還是要再次強調就像今天的報告裡面你們寫的就像剛剛部長所講的其實是讓我本席覺得是一種話術"},{"start":3536.411,"end":3553.959,"text":"因為在這個報告裡面你們講的預計的社會住宅的目標是100萬戶啊在第一頁裡面寫的100萬戶啊就算依照剛剛這個部長裡面講的依照住宅法第19條的規定啊你現在所興建的社會住宅大概12萬戶加上包租代管的大概10萬戶也是22萬戶啊"},{"start":3555.72,"end":3570.252,"text":"要達到100萬戶根本就本席而言根本這個目標就太長遠就天方夜譚所以我是不是再請部長稍微委員您的算法有錯了你解釋一下現在社會住宅的數量新建的是不是12萬戶包住斷款是不是12萬戶你在報告第一頁寫說預計100萬戶這就是一個很明顯的美化的數字那我想要請教部長"},{"start":3578.999,"end":3598.047,"text":"如何從20萬戶到達你的100萬戶的社會住宅報告委員這不是美化的數字我跟委員報告就是說在行政院所通過的百萬戶租屋家庭支持計畫裡面沒有你寫的是100萬戶的社會住宅啊這第一萬以100萬為目標啊百萬戶的租屋家庭的計畫我們的目標從來沒有改變過是三軌並進"},{"start":3599.424,"end":3622.02,"text":"所以我要跟部長講 這就是你的話術啦不是話術 每一個目標都有它的數目字 而且是非常務實的政治人物啊 尤其是總統 那些總統的報告是興建不是興辦啦就是要花政府的錢蓋的是政府的房子啊可是你現在啊 不管是你興建的12萬戶加上包租代管的12萬戶 才22萬戶你這裡美化說要100萬戶 中間還差了那麼多的數字啊"},{"start":3626.403,"end":3644.315,"text":"那我了解你的想法就是未來想要把租金補貼或甚至一些空的房子把它加入報租貸款裡面可是你的目標其實也沒辦法到達其實我記得你的目標大概是25萬戶你要達到100萬戶其實也是不可能所以我還是希望說把萬戶的租屋家庭計畫是三軌並進"},{"start":3645.376,"end":3668.706,"text":"我知道 可是我們在講的是社會住宅 依照住宅法第19條的社會住宅所以我還是要跟這個部長講就是說年輕人的未來跟有需要人的需要還是要拜託賴總統這邊這個還是要來關心他們所的需求那第二個我要請教部長就是之前在去年的11月我這邊有質詢的時候一直請教您"},{"start":3669.366,"end":3686.911,"text":"就是有關於有這個內政部預告的建築物設置太陽能光電板設置的一個標準就是未來在新建增建或改建建築面積達1000平方公尺以上的建築物要強制設太陽光電當時我在講的時候我就覺得這個法一定要多加檢討而且當時你在質詢的時候"},{"start":3689.432,"end":3704.218,"text":"承諾說這個要再檢討也不會那麼快上路可是我們看到現在這個法案這個辦法已經公告上去了所以距離上次質詢已經兩個多月了請問部長你們後續跟經濟部開了幾次會為什麼當你都不同意的這個方案為什麼還要這麼急的公告上次您在質詢的時候我有跟您講說我們會檢討"},{"start":3716.682,"end":3743.81,"text":"請問檢討了幾次我們檢討就是我們請我們的國土署跟經濟部負責的這個有沒有檢討有沒有書面的會議資料我是不是可以請那個代署長跟你回應一下那你聽我講完一下那我們檢討以後呢這個標準已經針對有消防公安跟委管三個部分的做充分考量而且呢我們在12月19號公佈出去的時候呢是跟經濟部一起共同公佈出去的"},{"start":3744.244,"end":3759.589,"text":"好請那個有沒有要解釋報告委員我是114年執勳我們內政部長請問你們開那8次會議是幾年開的我們在去年還是甚至前年都有開過是113年開的8次會議耶沒有沒有就陸陸續續一直開我拿到了8次會議的紀錄是113年的我這執勳是114年沒有跟部長報告錯誤啊114有開會啊開會是在113年耶"},{"start":3776.409,"end":3800.144,"text":"因為我們持續在檢討你們有沒有跟部長報告錯誤那如果你們如果真的沒有認真開會的話你們是不是要針對這個辦法是不是還要再繼續檢討針對所有的消防安全以及後續的維護應該要再檢討部長你有沒有聽到這個沒有開會就把這個辦法吵吵的公佈有開會報告委員您剛在上次在質詢的時候是特別提到我114年年底我拿到的是113年的會議紀錄"},{"start":3803.786,"end":3814.353,"text":"您特別提到消防的部分我也請教過消防署針對這個部分要提供他們的見解所以我們針對這個部分跟委員報告是114年12月19的時候我們跟惠童經濟部已經發布出去好 再來我要請教現在要抱怨有一個實務的問題大家都知道北市科輝達要來設總部要做這個新建3.0"},{"start":3826.181,"end":3852.316,"text":"他的屋頂是科技感的摺疊設計恐怕很難符合現在內政部所要需的設的光電板所以我要是不是請教部長市政府現在要協助揮打我們台灣可能第二個護國神山他是不是現在這個屋頂的這個是不是要送給內政部跟經濟部來做審查你們會不會因為他的設計沒有辦法裝光電板而去否築他的建築設計有沒有一些現在可以具體的回應"},{"start":3853.197,"end":3865.912,"text":"報告委員這個部分呢我們會再來跟台北市政府來共同找到一個比較好的方式因為我們都知道這個輝達的這個興建案台北市政府在第一個他需要送進到內政部跟經濟部嗎也是如火如荼的展開當中"},{"start":3870.538,"end":3882.132,"text":"那這個部分呢根據第六條裡面的一個這個規範呢我覺得我們可以跟台北市政府一起來協調那到底他們碰到什麼樣子的困難那如果可以協調出共識的話我想會幫助輝達在取得土地然後蓋總部的時候呢會能夠如期如值的達成"},{"start":3888.667,"end":3904.878,"text":"最後我要拜託部長就是不管是社宅的興建或是光電板的設置回答是我們台灣可能是第二個護國神山一定要多多來幫忙那我想要請教就是這個台北市政府未來相信有很多像這樣子的案子所以這光電板的設置"},{"start":3906.799,"end":3924.149,"text":"經濟部 我這邊有個新聞稿經濟部說的發電量我要跟大家公布一個數字全台灣一年可能會因為這個光電板在屋頂設置上一年要增加一百多萬片的光電板所以我還是要拜託這個部長跟經濟部要多溝通要審慎來考量 謝謝"},{"start":3925.209,"end":3946.927,"text":"是 我剛跟委員報告了也是根據我們公佈出去的這個發電設備標準來講的第六條就是您剛所提到有關揮打的部分所以其實是有解方並不是沒有解方有解方 那我還是要講那部長那個未來這個條例標準還是要再審慎思考 謝謝好 謝謝張制度委員的質詢 接下來我們請李博義委員"},{"start":3955.157,"end":3984.192,"text":"今天這個花敬群董事長有來 請花董事長我們請花董事長那部長先稍後謝謝委員長董事長早滿一九十期的社宅1.4萬戶從蔡英文政府上來以後到賴清德總統我想花敬群董事長是社宅最重要的推手請問一下目前社宅的部分一共舉載了多少"},{"start":3985.251,"end":4001.607,"text":"跟委員報告 因為是要依照興建的速度動波那到 目前 興建完成的部分還有興建中的一共舉債的多少這個基金 我們這個基金一共借了多少錢我們中央蓋的 住戶中心蓋的"},{"start":4003.001,"end":4030.227,"text":"我們蓋大概將近7萬戶 6萬9千戶那整個連帶案當時興建的費用是4,005億那我們現在估下來最後應該是3,890億左右目前這3,890億加上這些租金的收入可以付得到利息嗎利息可以抵得過嗎我們整個自償率算下來大概是64%左右"},{"start":4033.398,"end":4051.557,"text":"就是我們的租金收入我們扣掉必要的管理費用等等那目標是不是要百分之百當然缺口就是住宅基金補助 租屋中心所以說大概有百分之三十幾的部分目標會不會到百分之百 希望什麼意思 租金"},{"start":4052.986,"end":4081.523,"text":"我們租金收入的估計是用九成的出租率去估的九成出租率不是滿租是九成的出租率當然這都是要後續的維護因為這三千多億裡面還包含現在新建中還沒有開始收租金的部分對 全部蓋完所以在這個動態式的調整裡面同步的把包租代管拉高是一個方式讓整個社宅的基金"},{"start":4082.892,"end":4098.924,"text":"被內政部補貼的經費可以降低是不是這個意思其實這個部分是針對過往我們蓋的6萬9千戶那未來如果還要再增加興建當然還要有另外的資金的籌措和資金的補助"},{"start":4099.468,"end":4124.397,"text":"那都要在另外再來算那當然他就是他不是其實這都是選擇啦因為包租貸款或租金補貼他可以即刻快速滿足民眾的需求嘛不用等我蓋房子需要時間大概我以我高雄我的選區左營男子為例高雄目前總社宅規劃是接近兩萬三千戶"},{"start":4126.358,"end":4154.706,"text":"我們是因為台積電進駐的關係那大量的社宅也規劃在左營跟南子一共9000多戶目前有一個地方就是崇石安居都已經很多人住進去了那我也在這邊讓大家知道一下崇石它一共859戶裡面當初有2186戶來申請但是通過審核的1085戶可能它的工作地點可能它的戶籍地點等等的這一些我們所限制的因素"},{"start":4157.829,"end":4173.115,"text":"1085個合格的抽籤 中籤率是接近80%這個是歷年來社宅可能算中籤率很高很高的一個當然也有可能是因為我在自己接觸的很多從"},{"start":4174.996,"end":4199.406,"text":"領租金補貼到要搬進社宅第一個地點的關係第二個他比較新第三個可能他這樣搬過去他的租金不會造成他更大的負擔所以因為這三個因素他會搬但是這個只有80%接下來還有8000戶左營男子接下來還有8000戶那董事長也都有去看所以我想這個接下來我要請劉部長謝謝劉部長"},{"start":4207.468,"end":4219.098,"text":"謝謝委員好謝謝所以現在內政部調整的方向應該是說要大量的希望大量的這個包租代管可以出現所以包含我們也把這個"},{"start":4223.776,"end":4245.131,"text":"這個包租貸款裡面很多公益出租那還有對於出租人的這個終所稅的優惠付稅的減免等等希望有更多釋出更多的空屋來讓包租貸款的量可以增加到讓整個租屋市場可以平衡那這個部長請問一下"},{"start":4246.932,"end":4271.351,"text":"從去年度我們開始推包租貸款到今年度整個包租貸款的量的變化是怎樣是 謝謝委員的垂詢我想包租貸款不是去年度就是已經推了大概10年左右但是從前年去年到今年對 我們有增加了幾個賦稅優惠等等速度非常的快對 非常的快你可以說明一下數字嗎幾乎現在是10萬4千多戶"},{"start":4273.673,"end":4300.622,"text":"現在是10萬4千多戶在113年的時候是8萬多戶然後112年是6萬多戶所以幾乎是每年用2萬戶的這個這個趨勢在往上成長當中這2萬戶的成長其實包含包含我們在住宅法裡面可以很多的包含這個付稅的優惠那包含對於修繕的補助還有修繕的補助等等這會比蓋房子快啦會比這個住住中心蓋房子快啦所以"},{"start":4300.982,"end":4317.361,"text":"現在目前調節的方向而且這是民間蓋的房子不是公屋這是一般的租屋嘛對 空屋或漁屋或者是有租屋需求的市場需要的部分那部長我再問你一個問題那如果這個包租代管的速度可以這麼快的話"},{"start":4318.723,"end":4333.693,"text":"那如果這個住戶中心這邊跟地方政府可以配合好那還有比如說像南梓的這個中遊宿舍區還有機會蓋的話請問花董事長跟部長你們認為這個方向上你們還會不會評估下去蓋"},{"start":4334.298,"end":4360.046,"text":"第一個我們是會做彈性的調整像委員所在的左營跟南梓他未來的人口可能也會繼續的增加因為台積電的二耐米廠已經開設然後還有橋頭科學園區如果有需求的話我們一定會在包租代管跟直接興辦當中做一個最好的彈性調整但是請委員能夠了解第一個它的務實跟可及性也就是說會不會來不及"},{"start":4360.706,"end":4382.684,"text":"如果現在大家有需求的話如果現在有空屋可以拿出來出租那必須最務實現在馬上要去上班的台積電的青年或是其他的弱勢族群的話如果他要等到五年十年以後才看到房子蓋成那他大概已經轉到別的就業市場所以事實上他是非常務實跟可及性的趕快把大量的包租代管的空屋催出來嘛"},{"start":4383.385,"end":4404.933,"text":"我們很希望走這個方向謝謝 那華董事長我請問你我剛講的那個問題如果中流宿舍那一區有機會協調好的話住住中心能不能評估來蓋那個宿舍未必是一定要蓋社宅因為它本來是中流的資產不一定是這個名字那又是可能是更新或怎麼樣是依據高雄在地的需求"},{"start":4405.478,"end":4428.189,"text":"其實都可以再跟市府這邊再來做溝通好 謝謝我想內政部跟住戶中心用這個比較活化比較滾動式的來趕快快速的來調整這些可以出租的這些房子我想我們這裡表達支持 謝謝謝謝李博議員接下來我們請王美惠召委"},{"start":4437.779,"end":4443.122,"text":"主席 家居組織中心花董事長請花董事長趙委長剛才您在這裡說到社會住宅我記得我剛才在7月1日來到台北開會中央開會的時候剛才你那時候發誓"},{"start":4467.989,"end":4493.845,"text":"在這個過程當中 我也要感謝你給嘉義市的機會因為中央有這個政策 嘉義市有可能去社會住宅因為每一間市的訴求 當中是不同的你知道嘉義市是一個小兒媒"},{"start":4494.912,"end":4502.077,"text":"好大的地方 但是他沒有代表他的家人他沒有代表他的工作所以在這個過程 我覺得有擔當的重點就是覺得我們的政策說 但是每個人的訴求不一樣改進的 我們就要改進"},{"start":4523.277,"end":4528.601,"text":"像我們有時候跟我們的部長說的時候部長說 啊 因為嘉義市跟很多縣市的大都市都沒工這我可以接受喔所以在這個過程當中他說要新建的是不是可以有工廠出來"},{"start":4549.352,"end":4570.894,"text":"包租貸款 今天我身為嘉義市的民意代表我就先跟你說嘉義市的需要因為嘉義市有安寮好市 有中好市 博愛第一"},{"start":4571.84,"end":4582.387,"text":"我要安居在這三天的當中 重聽五百號若沒有我們中央的政策 我相信我們自己再沒有這三天的社會主宰可以幫助年輕人的訴求和弱勢的訴求在這幾天內看到中央給自己機會"},{"start":4599.418,"end":4605.88,"text":"但是在整天白色靠我的時候還是靠我們服務處說你們的政策還在變啊我說是怎麼說他說跟你們說要去社會住宅跟現在說這麼多是要跟他一起希望跟他一起持政府的努力在日深暗示下有一個"},{"start":4629.558,"end":4630.047,"text":"主來最輕微"},{"start":4631.871,"end":4640.617,"text":"他在市政府也很快會開胃了在這裡我要請教我們黨首長有的外面的風聲不然說怎麼會有呢我們是要挑戰每一個官司的訴求不一樣我已經說三次了每一個官司的訴求不一樣所以第二次我告訴你那個"},{"start":4661.952,"end":4674.269,"text":"是不是你如果討論也要來那裡討論才對因為最重要的假期期沒有這個我再跟你講過"},{"start":4675.629,"end":4679.351,"text":"沒有工作在那裡所以董事長你是不是跟我討論現在我說的那個未來要怎麼做因為我相信如果經過教育市也好教育市鄉親也好年輕人去教育市吃套路也好都有看到我們社會住宅漸漸的一定會完成所以董事長拜託"},{"start":4706.073,"end":4720.918,"text":"我拜託一下我們日升街那裡要如何處理來回答一下感謝委員對我們租賂中心跟我們社財政策一直的支持我們現在過去期我們現在有安療有中和部外其實我先跟委員報告安療好事今年就會遭遇氣候 今年的氣候就遭遇差不多第四季就開始公告遭遇 當然"},{"start":4734.405,"end":4745.69,"text":"委員一直在說啦 第四案我們現在日新安居啦 別住來住 住來住像旁邊這樣日新安居 其實對政府現在應該也是繼續在會議中不說放棄 現在沒有了這樣當時剛才你說的就是跟外面所煩惱的所擔委會是不一樣是是是不是中央放棄說不去社會住宅喔是每個縣市有的 沒關係"},{"start":4763.097,"end":4765.659,"text":"會想說年輕人還可以有家庭長大跟他的官司不一樣有他的工作很多啊他可以包住大館啊但是自己家一定要有社會住宅對自己家來說80人那麼多啦是啊 現在我們按理好是今年第四季開始遭遇"},{"start":4786.209,"end":4790.236,"text":"我們不需要看姓姓的狀況因為姓姓很多現在提早時間安排我們就需要從早安排"},{"start":4798.308,"end":4806.131,"text":"在這裡這樣就是當時聽說這個日升街不是沒辦法去是我們這個地市區的寮屋看遭遇的情形給我們一部分自己市政府也是照顧我的家是不是這樣 是嘛再來 因為那個單位位就是說實在啦我們的北省 我們的少年街 我們的弱勢"},{"start":4826.428,"end":4853.259,"text":"要去檢查去照顧啦因為有時候說要補助他的出水我們說實在的我們這也是說你趕快在這個地方有時候一天兩天你在台北上班不一定兩天後在其他地方去上班他就不一樣的訴求啦不一樣的需要啦"},{"start":4853.729,"end":4858.832,"text":"在這 我也問問當事長他剛才本省說的 再邀請一下來 請原住民主委主委在這本省這時候時間漸漸要到了 我要跟你說我們這個內牆安全的訓練是在12月底的時候 我們定期 中間要到7500"},{"start":4881.707,"end":4896.152,"text":"五百多人差不多有四千五千人左右有嘛有在有的當中你們在正當安全受訓的時候有五十個五十個去啦九十八個拿到受訓是"},{"start":4901.604,"end":4907.427,"text":"在這個過程當中 主委我是不是要跟你說你若看有四五千人有內娟在過程當中有內娟跟有婚姻過也是抓到遭廢棄 讓她的同行大大事"},{"start":4925.626,"end":4940.391,"text":"所以這個訓練非常重要民生是我們的專業 因為你們說的我們說的是訓練安全 訓練有多少錢你知道嗎 主委是到現在還沒過啦 我覺得這個錢對於我們住民來說是非常重要你知道訓練裡面的錢有多少嗎"},{"start":4953.956,"end":4954.376,"text":"大概40萬 七十萬"},{"start":4979.38,"end":4984.867,"text":"在這裡面有這件事要好好去訓練 好好去用因為我希望 不能夠發生這個問題我們應該要鼓勵所有有內疚的人都出來訓練自己"},{"start":4999.125,"end":5000.247,"text":"我們要擴大訓練啦 擴大訓練主委 這是重點啦 要擴大訓練啦因為有4千5人 有肌肉有腸的有內腸的 所以你說要擴大訓練"},{"start":5018.491,"end":5020.412,"text":"謝謝王美惠召委 接下來我們請黃婕惟發言"},{"start":5048.237,"end":5051.541,"text":"好 謝主席 我們先請原民會曾主委也請曾主委我先走 謝謝"},{"start":5058.942,"end":5080.436,"text":"好 主委早先跟你請教一下1月5號這個原住民身份法規定的兩年補正的登記的期限就已經到期了那因為其實有看到說如果這個過去因為單獨監護然後取得身份的族人1月5號之前如果沒有改父或母的這個原住民的姓並列名字的話他的原住民的身份有可能遭到廢止"},{"start":5081.761,"end":5109.767,"text":"那我擔心的是說全台灣有多少族人因為在1月5號之前來不及或者是他漏掉了沒有去登記去補正那面臨到廢止的風險請問現在有多少的族人面臨到這樣子的問題謝謝委員我們有精準的掌握到大概是4000多個人其實蠻多的那我們也已經通知他們儘早來申辦那2月5日"},{"start":5110.728,"end":5112.872,"text":"我們還會再次的敦促我們當事人"},{"start":5114.223,"end":5141.705,"text":"來辦理那我在這裡還是跟委員講即便喪失原住民的身分仍然可以重新取得是的我知道可以恢復但我現在問題來了這就是我要請教主委的在廢止到恢復中間有沒有身分中斷而影響他生活各方面權益的問題我在這邊舉幾個例子例如說如果他的這個族人他身分中斷了但是他想要考的是"},{"start":5142.826,"end":5171.124,"text":"2026年上半年的公務員的考試或者是各種升學的考試或者是他要申請的是跟原住民相關的社福的補助會不會因為這個身份的中斷而影響他的加分資格影響他補助的資格等等以上這些生活各個面向跟委員報告會真的會就是說如果這段時間剛好有考試或什麼他剛好上市原住民的身份就真的會中斷"},{"start":5171.929,"end":5194.32,"text":"所以這就是我要問的啦這個因為這樣子的中間有一個空窗期導致他可能很多包括我剛剛講的社福補助欸包括他考試的資格欸這個加分的這個可能落差來回就非常大那這個對他的生活來說都是非常大的影響所以這4000多個人主委接下來怎麼處理"},{"start":5195.319,"end":5213.878,"text":"我想我們都有密切來跟他們來做聯繫因為這個當下回復這個原住民身後是很快的你只要去登記馬上就可以回復所以我們現在不管是我們的同仁我們也拜託縣市的一些相關的原住民處還有內政部的副政事務所"},{"start":5217.126,"end":5233.591,"text":"趕快來通知會上司原住民生活的這些主任我們盡全力來協助他們好 這個要拜託主委因為我們當初立這個新的法就是其實用意並不是說要讓他失去這一些資格的廢紙"},{"start":5234.471,"end":5249.433,"text":"而是希望他們可以並列他們的族名然後來重新彰顯族群的平等嘛這是我們當時的精神那在這邊我也要提醒主委一件事情我最近看到兩個例子一個是2024年底台中市北區有一個"},{"start":5249.973,"end":5272.006,"text":"泰雅族的族人他想要為新生兒來登記他的族名結果承辦人員說他的族名不在族譜名譜上面就拒絕他了那當事人他的說法是說他想要融合泰雅族跟布農族的奶奶的文化的意涵然後把他的拼寫是有融合在一起的結果承辦人員就刁難他就說這個不是泰雅族的名字"},{"start":5272.486,"end":5293.644,"text":"所以就被拒絕了另外一個例子是去年的年底有一個賽德克族的人也是去護鎮要辦這個族名的表列然後結果承辦人員也是拿著手冊翻啊翻說你這個名字有沒有拼錯啊然後說他的手冊上面沒有賽德克族的這個參考所以百般的刁難這位賽德克族的族人喔"},{"start":5294.364,"end":5309.202,"text":"所以我在這邊要講的是既然我們希望彰顯他們的使用的名字是可以尊重他們這個族群本身那結果承辦人員他們好不容易說對我很願意去把我的族名表列在上面結果承辦人員百般的刁難"},{"start":5310.196,"end":5333.965,"text":"我跟委員報告這其實是戶政事務所人誤會了原住民的這個傳統名字不是只有列在那個族族的參審所以剛好藉這個今天我們內政部也在這邊也拜託部長然後跟我們原民會回去可以做橫向的溝通讓我們第一線各縣市的戶政在遇到這件事情的時候不要去刁難族人的族名表列"},{"start":5334.565,"end":5339.149,"text":"好我們會持續來辦這個訓練好謝謝主委那最後一點時間我們請內政部劉部長我在這邊簡單的提一下那我還是認為蓋設宅跟這個包租代管跟租金補貼是沒有衝突的"},{"start":5350.879,"end":5371.176,"text":"所以我也希望說在補足這個蓋設宅很慢的這個漫長的過程當中我們用包租代管的方式可以儘速的進到市場來增加這個空餘屋提供給租屋族的這個數量所以這三管齊下我認為是並行的而不是說做了這個就不做那個委員您講得非常正確我們就是朝這個三軌齊進一起來處理"},{"start":5376.68,"end":5402.507,"text":"對所以最後呢我想要跟部長提醒一下因為其實包租代管已經上路近10年嘛那目前也努力的清出了大概10.48萬戶這樣子的數量但是呢目前手上的工具到底夠不夠因為就部長的盤點我們目前未來的目標是希望再把這個91萬戶裡面再繳出37萬戶不是不是我想不是"},{"start":5402.887,"end":5412.099,"text":"就是我們從北北桃中裡面找出現在低度利用的空餘屋就是精準的部分是在這個地方是37.5萬但是未來達成數目不會是這個數目大概譬如說可能以1萬2萬3萬慢慢往上升是這樣子的方式"},{"start":5420.61,"end":5448.885,"text":"沒有那麼快但是包租代管業者現在的這個增加的數目是非常的快已經有達到131家對那這就是我要講這也是我每一次都一定會提醒的就是到底誘因是什麼因為像之前我們在討論說是不是他們的這個給他們有足夠的稅賦的減免啊然後其他方面有各式各樣的誘因讓他們願意進到包租代管的市場可是目前看起來我擔心的是"},{"start":5449.965,"end":5466.811,"text":"這樣的速度並不夠快好我們會來精進包括委員提的建議案如果在財稅的負擔上面不管是用這個棍子或者蘿蔔我們可以齊齊頭並進因為我們也不希望太多空餘屋是的然後還來就是說這個房子他要不要進入修繕補貼的方式"},{"start":5468.712,"end":5489.833,"text":"因為那個委員非常重視的像老宅延壽的部分也許我們也可以把他納到裡面去因為老宅延壽本來就是針對這個房屋要很健康才可以提供給包租貸款業者來使用對謝謝謝謝部長說明那我覺得對年輕人來說其實就是要現在馬上可以入住夠方便最好在市中心又夠便宜品質又夠好這個才是對年輕人最直接的幫助"},{"start":5492.916,"end":5514.879,"text":"所以這三管齊下如果可以最快速達到這個目標的對年輕人來說我就是馬上在市中心可以入住就學就業都方便所以就是包租代管沒錯目前看起來也是像桃園新北的速度非常的快增加的速度非常的快對那我希望這個就要必須要加速啦趕快請這些空餘物最好這37萬戶都試出來是最好啦"},{"start":5515.339,"end":5522.184,"text":"那最後一個小提醒喔這個租金補貼最近我接到很多的陳情啦就是說因為之前的條件太不設限了然後審查過寬了或者是說審查太簡便了導致說現在在跟民眾追討這個租金的補貼"},{"start":5531.081,"end":5546.175,"text":"所以現在還是有接到一些民怨啦就是說租金補貼的用意很好那你們當初條件就設好那審查的不要說初審到後面複審最後又要跟你把租金補貼要回來是 報告委員我們是跟地方政委一起來合作"},{"start":5546.855,"end":5575.101,"text":"那地方政府在處理的過程當中也許他們的考量跟中央不一樣那中央的話會透過這個財產總歸戶或稅務總歸戶的方式或者是他有沒有真正在住在那個房子裡面所以事實上會有所謂的議領有的時候是時間差那議領的部分呢我們也可以採取說如果他現在的經濟負擔沒有那麼快的話會用這個分期付款的方式來處理那全國的議領數量大概是1.3%左右這個部分呢我們還是可以跟地方政府一起來合作"},{"start":5576.723,"end":5591.079,"text":"這個當然我知道這個有一些行政上的落差但是我還是希望如果接下來要精進的話不要你們就第一時間把條件都設好跟地方也都講好民眾怎麼樣的條件可以領不要說到之後他他根本就不知道他一領"},{"start":5591.9,"end":5609.257,"text":"因為有時候跟房東沒有提供這些他的可能是他的租屋的證明等等的有的時候就是要身份自己改變譬如說他有自己的房子或者他已經不是學生等等這些所以這個真的要拜託希望接下來不要再發生我們會跟地方政府一起來精進好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝黃婕委員的質詢接下來我們請張宏祿委員發言"},{"start":5626.24,"end":5631.192,"text":"來我先請原住民族的主委請曾主委"},{"start":5635.2,"end":5658.647,"text":"委員長 來 主委剛剛也有委員問到原住民身分法這個1月5號前這個問題你剛聽到你講還有4000多人還有4000多人當然啦 時間過後呢他還是可以恢復這是沒有錯可是這4000多人我覺得人數也不多那為什麼無法一一通知到他們"},{"start":5661.437,"end":5684.155,"text":"我們都有書面但是就是有的譬如說他不在國內或者是有一些就是說他的戶籍地可是他經常的時間不是在戶籍地都是在譬如到外面去到都會去來工作的這個我們也會協助我們也拜託公所協助來催請他們趕快來申請這個我為什麼會特別"},{"start":5688.458,"end":5705.186,"text":"你說你除了在國外之外其實4000多人我覺得人數不多我們其實你透過工作 透過族群透過我們部落其實都可以掌握我覺得這一個我認為應該"},{"start":5711.584,"end":5736.471,"text":"把它做成一個例子以後如果有類似的情形應該要及早通知我覺得這不困難才4000多人而已我覺得這個為什麼我要這樣特別請教你我們平埔原住民族群身分法的草案也通過了 對不對未來平埔族原住民他們"},{"start":5737.931,"end":5743.537,"text":"會不會也有類似他要恢復他的身分會不會有同樣的問題會出現"},{"start":5746.487,"end":5774.137,"text":"這個就是說平埔族的部分就是一開始先登記登記完之後才會面臨這樣的問題對 不管不管不管那個過程是怎麼樣總有一天會遇到這個問題吧是會不會會會嘛好 平埔族原住民遇到這個問題的話會不會比現在的這個更複雜會 所以我們及早要藉這次的經驗看怎麼樣就是說來跟這個"},{"start":5776.098,"end":5799.504,"text":"各平埔原住民的這個他們將來這個審議委員會我們也會透過怎麼樣的一個宣傳讓他們也能夠在都在期限內來登記我跟你講現在4000多人都沒有辦法了到時候平埔族更多 對不對那你應該以這一次的事情你去檢討"},{"start":5801.064,"end":5823.44,"text":"是怎麼樣沒有辦法通知然後是怎麼樣你至少要有一個範例出來然後以後如果有這個至少不會從零開始我們會整理一個SOP跟委員報告就是說未來是怎麼樣來因應這個事情你們現在有SOP了嗎"},{"start":5825.732,"end":5841.71,"text":"我們現在已經在做你們現在有SOP了嗎我們現在跟內政部正在合作包含地方政府還有公所跟護所來建立這個SOP之後我們會把這個SOP建立起來所以現在還沒有嗎"},{"start":5844.003,"end":5856.919,"text":"所以我說要以這次的例子趕快去防範於未來不然未來這個問題我覺得會比這個我認為是百倍不值"},{"start":5859.608,"end":5888.224,"text":"而且你們跟內政部啊尤其是跟婦政事務所要緊密的配合開會啦像剛剛主委你說這個婦所人員了解不清楚其實我說真的我也要幫婦所同仁說一句話不是他了解不清楚啦我不認為是他了解不清楚啦婦政事務所人員不會做特別去刁難是因為"},{"start":5890.516,"end":5919.035,"text":"兩個單位你那正部跟園民會你們兩個單位你們沒有把該有的那個範例範本給他 給他說清楚如果有說清楚我不認為第一線的婦生事務所同仁會這樣為什麼咧他這樣只是找他自己麻煩他一次可以辦好的他變成要辦好多次我不相信婦所的同仁會自己找自己麻煩所以我的意思是說多把它建立成範本或什麼人家一看就很清楚這樣可以嗎"},{"start":5920.155,"end":5941.234,"text":"可以啦我們可以做這樣的修正那給你們時間做啦我也不認為這個三個月之內你可以做得出來這個SOP我也不相信啦但我覺得半年的時間應該夠吧好 可以可以啦半年 努力那就給你們半年的時間去研究一下好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":5947.901,"end":5959.929,"text":"謝謝張鋒祿委員的質詢 接下來我們請麥玉珍委員發言主席好 有請內政部部長"},{"start":5971.199,"end":5992.772,"text":"部長好想要請教一下我們賴清德總統上任後政府公開就是發布新聞說明確宣布以盤點227處國公有的土地結合老舊的住舍就是改建"},{"start":5994.636,"end":6005.265,"text":"可新建約9萬戶的社會住宅但現在內政部卻改口說社會住宅用地取得困難我要請教一下是當初盤點的錯誤還是我們賴總統"},{"start":6011.109,"end":6031.878,"text":"對社宅的政見真是跳票這227處的土地現在在哪裡另外行政院過去也明確指出在市地重花於區段的徵收中保留3至5%的土地共給就是"},{"start":6032.638,"end":6057.477,"text":"社會住宅使用這是政府過去用來支撐社宅用地的不缺這重要的政策工具這是政策現在還在不在今三年全國市地重劃案件中有多少實際的保留社宅用地部長請你回答一下"},{"start":6058.818,"end":6079.438,"text":"謝謝委員的指教 我跟委員報告我們的百萬租屋家庭支持計畫的目標從來沒有改變過現在我們是在可行性還有精準性還有即時性上面做務實的調整跟變動也不是外界所說的社會住宅從此不蓋 不是這個樣子 委員可能誤解"},{"start":6080.279,"end":6101.455,"text":"那您所提到的227處的部分是在113年的時候那個時候國土署全部盤點所有可能的這個土地那盤點出來去除掉已經招標跟不可行的基地還有各機關有提供這個閒置用地的話到昨天為止一共是235處是增加的"},{"start":6103.496,"end":6120.958,"text":"但是我們所謂的百萬租屋家庭支持計畫最主要我們發現到在精華土地也就是說在稀缺性極高的淡黃區土地裡面才是真正年輕人或者是社會住宅需要有的這個土地的部分"},{"start":6121.659,"end":6148.649,"text":"所以我們現在呢所處理的這個部分改採叫做多元興辦那多元興辦包括都市計畫的變耕 都耕分回協商使用土地的地上物遷移等等這些那預計呢在115年到116年呢優先興辦的大概會有40處左右那這40處呢就會是分布在我剛剛委員報告的所謂的稀缺性的土地可能就是分布在北北桃中這四個地塊"},{"start":6149.449,"end":6174.987,"text":"好所以呢你說這樣子的話的資料可以一份給我但是呢我要提醒的盤點不是許願清單是說政府對人民的承諾如果是227處的土地不能使用就不能蓋的話就不能排成但是因為我們要的就是說當初這個政見就是要拿來"},{"start":6176.618,"end":6191.927,"text":"不是騙票的所以我們是希望真正要來去蓋正式的要個興建如果答案沒有我們就不是事實所以我們希望就不是說土地不見了是政府選擇不做我們是怕的是這個所以呢我們現在部長說這個要蓋很多但是我們沒有看到就沒有看到"},{"start":6202.293,"end":6214.026,"text":"所以政府在我們現在已經完成12.2萬戶了怎麼會沒有呢那是我們的政策方針實際用在就是現在可受惠的對象還是100萬為主所以說我要你把這個詳細的資料要給我們因為你自己在"},{"start":6221.334,"end":6227.516,"text":"在網路上說我們是困難所以我才說針對你要講的是困難我們有挑戰但是我們在解決這方面的問題而且有提出精進的方案希望能夠即時性的來補助需要這個社會主宰或者需要租金補貼的對象所以你們是說實際上用租金就是補貼包住代管這些取代就是興建社會助展沒有取代 它是更多元"},{"start":6245.703,"end":6255.13,"text":"但是說把這樣子的承諾的新建住宅社宅改成就是大規模的補貼啦所以請教我們的租屋補貼真實等於社會住宅嗎沒有等於嘛對不對所以我們希望說你說怎麼樣去大規模來去補貼所以說不等於社會住宅所以委員你希望租金補貼停止嗎"},{"start":6271.38,"end":6274.562,"text":"我現在不是說 社會住宅是政府直接提供可負擔還有品質的 穩定租期給我們的公共住宅但是社會住宅蓋的速度確實不夠快就是能平移房租改善房屋的品質但是租金補貼只是把錢丟進市場"},{"start":6296.437,"end":6308.768,"text":"無法確保就是租屋的品質可能也會推高就是房租所以請部長清楚回答是內政部這邊承不承認租屋補貼無法期待社會住宅無法期待 報告委員租屋補貼是什麼意思租金補貼還是包租代管"},{"start":6324.588,"end":6346.602,"text":"社會住宅無法取代 在社會住宅法裡面直接新蓋跟包住代管都是屬於我們現在要的是新建社會住宅所以你講這一些我希望說我們是租不住這一些的話是不等於社會住宅所以說社會住宅我們的"},{"start":6349.724,"end":6373.232,"text":"包租代管沒辦法取代社會住宅你承認嗎包租代管我剛跟委員報告過在我們的住宅法裡面它也是屬於社會住宅的一種那當然如果用樹地來興建的話我們也必須要考慮它的地段是不是在稀缺的土地上面也就是說現在有需求的這些我只要問你說施設是不能取代的但是我們現在看到的就是"},{"start":6378.274,"end":6380.256,"text":"沒有那麼多說你們承諾你們是在選舉的時候在說有227處是你們已經盤點了所以你們已經盤點了所以我們才要問說盤點了到現在我們總統已經一年半了我們沒有看到"},{"start":6398.832,"end":6401.055,"text":"所以呢盤點的地方是錯誤嗎所以我們是說我們沒辦法期待但是事實上社宅的目標就是被下修了嘛補貼預算不斷的擴大"},{"start":6415.354,"end":6421.842,"text":"所以新建的社宅核定數據是零所以這個不是並行而是說用補貼掩蓋不蓋社宅我們不接受而且國際上也沒有這樣子的國家就是把包住代管作為社宅的"},{"start":6434.176,"end":6456.015,"text":"的社會住宅我希望就是不要偷換概念所以你說的剛才有講說什麼很多空屋請教我們的部長現在到底有沒有掌握全國社會住宅的實際需求還有答案其實大家都知道"},{"start":6457.196,"end":6474.049,"text":"是零 沒有中央政府到今天為止從來沒有堅持說任何全國性的社會住宅的需求登記的機制也就是說政府不是因為已經掌握需求判斷"},{"start":6475.931,"end":6490.163,"text":"會沒有人租而是完全沒有需求的資料的狀況下先下結論說可能就是沒有人租這不是謹慎的評估喔這是說設建後再"},{"start":6491.484,"end":6504.552,"text":"這話吧再更幻妙的是我們的部長長期拒絕說全國社會住宅需求登記平台讓真正需求被關在黑箱裡報告委員 我們上次修法已經通過了喔就是黑箱暫住不蓋社宅的理由我們要的是承諾也要實現不是用講的再到選舉的時候說227處到現在我們都沒有看到是這樣"},{"start":6520.262,"end":6533.606,"text":"沒有 報告委員 您剛才還跟我說取資料我跟您報告的時候 我們新辦事實處1.1萬戶你叫我給你資料啊 就表示說這個資料有在啊然後我們有說連一戶都還沒核定就是我已經告訴你就是有這麼說就是取得土地難 蓋也難所以現在你講的 還有我們網路找的也沒有網路上面不一定是事實 請看我們的記者會比較好所以你看記者會說的嘛"},{"start":6549.355,"end":6567.147,"text":"所以我們記者會那個所有的全部的這個方式三軌併進都講得非常清楚包括我們今天的報告案請委員能夠這個把這個報告案能夠詳實的看一下裡面的數據那我們會根據委員的垂詢跟批評指教的部分來做精進謝謝"},{"start":6569.09,"end":6584.382,"text":"好如果你是說是這樣子的話我希望說我們現在因為我看到你新聞又說什麼全國有90萬空屋所以不需要再蓋社宅這也是你說的所以我請教一下91萬戶的空屋今天才出現嗎我們在調整戶數報告委員我們在調整他的戶數"},{"start":6595.57,"end":6600.453,"text":"空屋的成長率已經為10%了為什麼過去可以說要蓋社宅現在說拿空屋來當理由不蓋如果政府真的認為空屋可以為租金供給的話請教一下我們的空屋稅在哪裡就是囤房稅改革為什麼是"},{"start":6622.066,"end":6633.695,"text":"避重就輕 沒有任何的制度 逼屋主撕出房租房子讓我們就是不能只靠補助政府要從哪裡編出10萬戶"},{"start":6637.999,"end":6650.293,"text":"就是供給人民 我們要的是承諾要的是政府 要我們賴清德的承諾要的是執行的 精準的方案"},{"start":6652.395,"end":6666.451,"text":"而且我們的目標從來沒有改變過我們也沒有說不蓋社會住宅只是我們在調整它的戶數希望能夠全部集中在北北桃中這些精華土地剛剛也跟委員報告過全國都有需要在蔡英文總統的學問簿裡面"},{"start":6672.898,"end":6678.259,"text":"全台灣已經蓋過一輪了所以我們不能說在這個當藉口現在我們又看到了又提出說可移動住宅廣大的包租代碗我們看到的是這樣因為你新聞也講了剛才有講"},{"start":6697.332,"end":6704.002,"text":"我現在跟你講的是說我們看到的數據會說話所以數據不會說謊但是政府會說謊所以我們希望賴清德上任"},{"start":6714.116,"end":6731.341,"text":"他的證件要去承諾要去承諾因為我們沒有看到任何給新的社會住宅新建案卻不斷的就是擴大的補貼改名詞 包住代管 充數這不是調整的"},{"start":6734.702,"end":6738.424,"text":"政策這是多元新辦社會住宅 報告委員合乎住宅法合乎住宅法的規範這是政府自己的社宅目標被砍掉嘛這不是方法的問題喔 是選擇以市長低頭所以我們希望希望是說要對人民不要"},{"start":6758.397,"end":6784.953,"text":"不要騙人 真的 人家要大所以政府呢 現在在社宅政策已經不是能力的問題也不是赤裸裸的是政見挑票所以呢 我們選前要蓋選後要實現 我們要求就是這樣子而已所以呢 不是替自己找理由不是要替自己找理由內政部要停止用股票的"},{"start":6788.817,"end":6807.724,"text":"包租貸款來掩蓋就是社會住宅所以委員你認為包租貸款不要推是嗎要勇敢來去面對社會住宅沒有真正的承諾沒有真正的實現委員你否定包租貸款政策嗎我現在說社會住宅"},{"start":6809.224,"end":6835.495,"text":"我剛剛有提到包租貸款也是社會住宅的一種在我們住宅法裡面18條跟19條講得非常的清楚沒辦法去等於也沒辦法取代社會住宅沒辦法等於也沒辦法取代所以只是另外一個政策沒辦法等於也沒辦法取代社會住宅你不要拿這個來欺騙我們的人民我們沒有欺騙我們更務實是我們的需要我們非常務實跟精準"},{"start":6836.468,"end":6847.112,"text":"需要就是要承諾要去真正的要人民看到的承諾不是只是掩蓋以上謝謝謝謝麥真委員謝謝劉部長接下來我們請黃建斌召委"},{"start":6861.943,"end":6885.591,"text":"好 謝謝主席 本席歡和一下情緒我們有請一下原民會主委請原民會曾志勇 曾主委委員好主委早 早安 早安各位 今天是我們原民會的業務報告本席要跟你翻一件對台東許多原住民鄉親非常嚴重的一個警訊"},{"start":6887.731,"end":6915.966,"text":"現在如果很清楚全國55個鄉鎮原住民鄉鎮裡面台東縣就佔了15個那尤其這個台東的21萬人口裡面有將近三分之一大概就是8萬人口左右是我們原住民的人數那高居全國第三高那不過這一次這個中央政府將地方政府的財力集資做出一個非常不合理的這個調整會造成未來許多原住民鄉鎮嚴重的衝擊"},{"start":6916.994,"end":6920.311,"text":"那主委 主委你知道台東縣以往都是第幾級財政登基"},{"start":6921.84,"end":6945.251,"text":"我所知應該不是第一集啦主委你常說要計劃嘛我們常說一直來都第五集嘛然後結果最近公布的一個名次是第一一次將第五集調到第一集這個跟首都台北是同樣列為自籌款最高的這個等級主委這不是升等這個是城中的負擔這個也不是獎勵這個是變相的懲罰"},{"start":6948.154,"end":6958.05,"text":"本學為什麼講變相懲罰我們中央公告這個財力第一級的縣市包括台北市新竹縣市然後台東縣台北市一年的稅收大概是1800億"},{"start":6959.144,"end":6980.44,"text":"那新竹縣是有科學園區作為重要的財源的來源那台東縣的人口大概是21萬年稅收大概是12億這麼大的差距結果還放在同一個集區裡面那更嚴重的是未來我們中央政府可以依據這樣的財政分配的分級的理由減少對台東的補助"},{"start":6981.241,"end":7004.627,"text":"那對我們台東未來要推動地方建設社會福利還要都要負擔更高的自籌款嗎那這個部分本席在收到這個消息我們也馬上邀請我們台東縣的副縣長王智慧副縣長我們立刻到台北跟我們主計處來抗議那我們必須要重新來檢討台東的這個財力市我們也必須要請"},{"start":7005.627,"end":7016.532,"text":"主基礎要含穩給中央各部會跟所有機關未來在受理台東補助的各項計畫的時候要考慮第一個台東的偏遠性第二個是我們原住民地區應該從寬來認定補助標準"},{"start":7019.321,"end":7034.872,"text":"主要我們原住民我們原住民族委員會裡面有一個就是那個原民會對所屬機關還有對地方政府補助的這個原則這個原民會對地方補助這個計畫型的補助啊會依照地方的這個財力其實不同而給不同的補助對吧"},{"start":7035.672,"end":7052.483,"text":"那最高的比例是不能超過90%對不對那如果財力第一級的地方政府除非符合相關的情況不然是願不愧是不會補足本席這樣講對不對我跟委員報告不管這個縣市是這個它的這個分級是第幾"},{"start":7053.719,"end":7075.239,"text":"鹽住民鄉永遠是脆弱的一個部分你即便是第一級他對鹽住民鄉的照顧一定也是比較脆弱所以我們對鹽住民鄉的補助不會因為等級而有什麼特別的差別就是說我們一樣就是仍然是以照顧鹽鄉照顧自己的族人為主"},{"start":7076.34,"end":7101.814,"text":"所以主委你的意思是未來不管台東縣幾級我們還是比照原住民鄉鎮的補助標準對不對台東縣的15個會跟其他40個原住民鄉鎮都一樣嘛對不對謝謝主委 主委其實這個大家都很擔心因為你看台東縣16個鄉鎮有15個都是原住民鄉鎮你這些鄉鎮長他情何以堪未來他只要想到他的計畫型補助我要自籌款拉到這麼高我以後怎麼敢再送計畫"},{"start":7104.502,"end":7117.319,"text":"你看那個原本可以申請到98%接下來可能都沒有得申請未來他要推計畫就直接被刷掉因為這個其實就把它刷掉嘛這個是非常不公平的那我想"},{"start":7119.383,"end":7142.25,"text":"我們再看到一份資料就是說本期這邊辦公室統計說過去三年台東縣各鄉鎮跟園民會申請計劃計劃性的補助高達400個項目那我們總計的金額是36億如果按照我們園民園民園民會的補助標準這個金額是不是如果我說的照剛才講的如果是用一級的看他不是是腰斬他是所剩無幾的各位主委"},{"start":7143.466,"end":7158.839,"text":"所以台東縣是中央民國很重要的原住民鄉鎮我們也自詡是南島文化的發源地那如果說未來如果原民會的態度不支持我們的話我們台東縣原住民鄉鎮都不會被照顧到也不能去重視所以在這邊本席要跟"},{"start":7159.58,"end":7181.572,"text":"因為這邊提出兩個具體的要求第一個就是我們園民會必須去檢討現行的財力集資的補助標準如果中央仍然不願意調整台東的財力集資那園民會針對第一極限制中的台東縣就必須考量原住民鄉鎮發展還有台東縣自有稅收不足的情況放寬經費上的補助的比例就是剛才主委你承諾的這些事情"},{"start":7182.092,"end":7201.883,"text":"那另外對我們台東縣15個原住民鄉鎮的權益標準要比照其他40個原住民鄉鎮那第二個我們原住民民會在參加參與其他部會的這個計劃審查的時候也必須明確的跟其他部會來表達就是說未來必須考慮台東縣地理的條件交通劣勢還有我們的稅都不足加上是原住民地區"},{"start":7202.463,"end":7224.662,"text":"因此計劃性的補助款應該要全力來協助避免造成城鄉的差異過大衝擊到我們原鄉的這個城鎮的發展那以上兩點也請主委來承諾會跟我們相關單位來強力爭取並且在一週內提供本市資料提供本市辦公室主委好 會我們會照委員的建議謝謝主委的支持馬上就謝謝謝謝"},{"start":7237.164,"end":7241.447,"text":"謝謝 謝謝曾主委 謝謝黃金平召委接下來我們請吳啟明委員發言好 召委一位同仁請我們駐駐中心我們董事長請駐駐中心花董事長委員長"},{"start":7260.526,"end":7274.934,"text":"好 早 發董事長針對我們的社會住宅其實社會住宅這個政策是非常的正確所以說在我們包含我們在都會區真的接受度都非常高大家都非常期待"},{"start":7276.01,"end":7303.762,"text":"所以我認為說你說包租代管其實包租代管的政策不是永續我還是認為社會住宅的興建來推動是一個正確的方向因為怎麼說呢 我跟你說現在很多年輕人買房子買不去因為期待是什麼就是要自己有房子你說除了社會住宅畢竟都幾十年了還有尤其處個心我說在我們的頂部"},{"start":7305.543,"end":7318.491,"text":"頂部我們這個頂府社區頂府社區你如果去看去到非常好啊 一千多號啊但是你有多少年紀多少才買房子買不去的人大家都莫名其妙"},{"start":7319.537,"end":7335.212,"text":"包含我們在內湖的蟲瓦區我們土層蟲瓦區這新北市收起的也是都造成轟動因為很多在無處的人他們都期待說社會主宰並不是包租代管"},{"start":7336.562,"end":7359.377,"text":"所以說社會住宅會升建這個腳步 一定要持續尤其你說市的土地 我們有很多我們的公有土地很多過去 這就是你們的錯誤過去很多重劃區 重劃區的比例要提高啊我們的重劃區比例 都是在地方政府將剩餘的土地來做公開標搜"},{"start":7362.24,"end":7385.735,"text":"你說過去你那時候所制定的我們的社會住宅要推動來比例把它提高你一個從外區 能夠啟動多少土地 多少的社會住宅因為我們明明知道這個社會住宅在外面在年輕人他們所寄託的就是要擁有一個社會住宅"},{"start":7387.91,"end":7413.524,"text":"所以你說包租貸款其實包租貸款因為我們台灣的空汙率你空汙率好 你要囤積一些空汙我們政府的政策就是要打起這些炒房嘛打起這些空汙嘛你空汙率起的空汙那麼多你又不需要輸出你就給它加稅嘛這才可以去耗資"},{"start":7415.654,"end":7431.406,"text":"社會住宅這個腳步一定不能停是不是由董事長你來做說明謝謝委員對整個住宅政策的支持其實住宅政策本來就是多元價值多元的方案在處理"},{"start":7432.079,"end":7449.667,"text":"大家在意關心的重點可能會隨著進度而會有改變會有調整或檢討像說因為我們現在就是說需要社宅在蓋所以很多人在期待蓋好的社宅很忙的當然那個力量很大"},{"start":7450.362,"end":7479.748,"text":"所以說怎麼樣在現階段多一點可以來直接提供幫助得到的數量所以說租金補貼或包租貸款它就會是比較快讓期待得到政府幫助的年輕人或一般的家庭能夠優先所以說這就是一個現階段的思考和調整過去早期因為連社宅都沒有也沒有租金補貼也沒有包租貸款大家可能是說你有什麼都好"},{"start":7480.74,"end":7494.667,"text":"當我們走到這裡走了這些年來其實我覺得在這個時間點做一次整體性的再思考和檢討然後再來看蓋完的社宅可能他申請的住戶數有沒有因為我"},{"start":7495.694,"end":7513.933,"text":"很多的租金補貼了可能那邊的壓力會小一點點我覺得這都是大家可以互相思考和檢討的地方好 董事長我是要了解說金格市長是跟年輕人他們的需求他們的願望就是說能取得一個社會住宅"},{"start":7514.834,"end":7534.635,"text":"所以說社會自在這個需求是絕對比包住貸款 絕對比租金補貼 誘因還要大所以說在這個部分 你要做個整個調整 未來你的沖化區 你的企的土地 一定要比例把它提高"},{"start":7535.174,"end":7544.096,"text":"是比例提高 我們的用意就是要去社會主宰嘛這可以徹底開發社會主宰的問題當然 當然 感謝委員一直跟我們支持啦其實我們這補訪也很認真在做好 感謝 謝謝來 請我們原住民我們主委請鎮主委"},{"start":7558.622,"end":7572.772,"text":"好 主委好因為原住民在我的選區裡面原住民的比例在新北市是非常的高那非常的高我發現原住民的語言現在都已經斷層因為年輕的你說學校的客戶"},{"start":7576.954,"end":7605.963,"text":"所教導的出來未必跟他實際上在家裡家裡的一些老長輩的教的速度應該會比較快那北斜還是提倡說我們多辦一些活動讓我們原住民的小朋友大家都能來接觸你看啊一些我們的活動的話小朋友他們接觸的領悟率會比較高所以未來我還是希望說我們原住民多來辦一些"},{"start":7607.004,"end":7628.761,"text":"大型的活動讓我們原住民的小朋友大家能接觸這學習的語言應該比在平常學校的課程應該還會吸收的快是不是這樣對 因為很多這個語言還是要經常被使用就是說那如果透過比大型的活動不管是歌"},{"start":7629.662,"end":7649.223,"text":"歌謠 不管是舞蹈 不管是一些這個還有戲曲 戲曲的比賽我們都有在做這樣的一個比賽前果啦 有分初賽 結賽 都有啦希望就是說我們持續要辦這樣的活動啦讓小朋友還有學校的學生持續來使用自己的母語"},{"start":7650.705,"end":7678.464,"text":"對 因為我看我們三峽那個紀惠所也蓋好了那未來我們還是要去推動一些活動不能說蓋了後來我們就丟給地方政府我們中央還是要介入還是要多辦個活動因為我們在我們三峽這個地方還有我們土城我們原住民的部落是人口最多還有樹林嘛那未來我們還是積極的來做規劃好不好好好 謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":7685.673,"end":7698.757,"text":"謝謝吳啟明委員的質詢 接下來我們請徐宇珍委員謝謝主席 我們請劉世芳 劉部長請劉部長"},{"start":7707.293,"end":7728.892,"text":"委員好部長好部長您在1月初的時候有陪同我們前總統蔡英文去參觀了這個中和的社會住宅而當時呢也發文這個蔡總統也發文強調社宅是國家必須承擔的責任而且賴清德總統競選時也明確的承諾要落實居住正義"},{"start":7729.608,"end":7749.856,"text":"所以要在蔡英文政府12萬戶的基礎上再加碼興建13萬戶到達25萬戶結果大概在您陪同蔡英文主席之後她也肯定她也相信未來中央政府會繼續的一起來推動社會住宅跟居住支持的政策"},{"start":7751.021,"end":7770.086,"text":"但是一個禮拜後您就提出了這25萬戶的社宅可能會跳票因為接下來可能會越蓋越少所以要請問部長賴清德總統競選時所承諾的這個25萬戶社會住宅的目標截至今日為止是否人算數"},{"start":7771.794,"end":7798.767,"text":"報告委員現在我們確實在蔡英文總統到中和去看景蕭設宅的時候我有跟她報告我們現在三軌旗下的目標值是110萬戶當時也提到說蔡英文總統任內所完成的設宅的總量是12萬戶包租代管是10萬戶所以我所說的數據到目前為止變動數並不大"},{"start":7800.948,"end":7807.292,"text":"那請問一下賴清德總統當時說會加碼興建13戶住宅那你已經講了未來會越蓋越少請問會少到什麼程度報告委員目前為止我們盤點出來的部分可能會在4萬到6萬之間那還要看 對不起"},{"start":7819.52,"end":7828.269,"text":"還要看這個北北桃中這個縣市地方政府他們現在能夠跟中央政府一起來合作能夠盤點的戶數所以這個部分有一些變動原來是13萬戶現在可能會調降到4萬到6萬戶是這樣嗎"},{"start":7836.077,"end":7840.943,"text":"要看時間因為聽說這個計畫其實都還沒有送行政院不是 報告委員我們百萬戶租屋家庭的支持計畫並沒有改變那目前為止還是三軌所以現在調整的是數目110萬戶的租屋主受到政府的"},{"start":7854.018,"end":7858.339,"text":"對100就是合計超過110萬戶那是因為你有90萬戶都是租金補貼嘛有90萬戶都是租金補貼喔所以才能夠合計加起來是110萬戶那尤其我們剛剛提到的12萬戶的社宅現在看起來好像達標可是實際上只有4萬多戶是完工的我們可以看一下現在這個統計表而興建中以絕標帶開工的"},{"start":7878.323,"end":7898.357,"text":"加起來還有大概8萬戶左右加起來才會有12萬戶這也只是達到這個蔡英文總統當時說的12萬戶那但是真正12萬戶要蓋完可能也當然也要可能要到2032年那現在規劃中的28230這個就是剛您講的賴清德總統的任內開始這個規劃中的嗎就是所謂的13萬戶的社會住宅嗎"},{"start":7908.639,"end":7930.924,"text":"目前規劃當中但是事實上我們還在規劃我剛有跟所以還不知道嗎也就是說接下來的是三萬戶我剛有跟其他的委員報告過目前就是說我們在115到116裡面可以優先興辦的40處大概是1.1萬戶請問一下為什麼會在賴靖德總統也上任一年多的時間"},{"start":7931.724,"end":7943.828,"text":"你們就把這個他的原來說的13萬戶的社會住宅要興建的這個部分就已經開始公開的公開的表示會跳票了為什麼這麼短時間第一個我們沒有講會跳票需要調整跟委員報告我們現在呢知道說從這個租金補貼裡面呢所分布的這個樣態知道說社會住宅的需求量大概就是集中在北北桃中這些所謂的京華地段跟京華地區"},{"start":7960.334,"end":7986.833,"text":"因為現在全台灣22個縣市已經有蓋好很多社會住宅回答其他委員的時候我聽到這個應該是在你們上任前就會知道社會住宅大概需求的大概就是會在進化區絕對不會是現在才知道嘛用盤點的方式那也就是說現在除了這個跳票之後您剛還提了另外一個原因就是因為要這個營建會增加碳排影響2050年的淨零目標"},{"start":7989.615,"end":8015.697,"text":"請您看一下您在2024年9月2號參加自然碳會及低碳建築研討會的時候還提到25萬戶社宅每年減碳可以11.23萬噸但現在卻變成說因為這個要增加因為我們蓋社宅會增加碳排量所以我們也要多利用現在的空汙餘汙所以到底蓋社宅是會增加碳排還是會減碳"},{"start":8017.911,"end":8037.597,"text":"蓋得越多當然碳排就越多蓋得越少碳排就越少請問您在2024年講到25萬戶設宅每年減碳11.23萬噸這個怎麼來的第一個那個當時我們在蓋社會住宅的時候因為我們要求社會住宅要走綠建築的標章所以綠建築跟一般的標章比起來是這樣子做所以現在不用嗎"},{"start":8038.317,"end":8065.072,"text":"報告委員我們現在要求是更嚴格也就是說在汽油變遷委員會裡面這個總統有明確要求這個社會這個住商裡面的碳排量要達到35%那我在參加這個自然碳會的時候那時候的目標不是35%那既然是35%的狀況之下那社會住宅如果可以減少這個新蓋的數量的話他減少的碳排量就會更多"},{"start":8065.712,"end":8082.479,"text":"其實我想不管是當時你說會減少碳排或是現在會增加碳排其實大家都聽不懂因為都會覺得說到底是當時為了要推社會住宅當時為了要這個推這個賴總統的政見所以呢什麼樣子都有可能來這個帶動"},{"start":8083.84,"end":8110.074,"text":"社宅的一個興建可是現在又是這樣子所以我們現在看到用淨零轉型來告訴大家說社宅的興建應該要少一點這個其實就是聽起來事實上大家都沒有辦法能夠接受其實委員還有另外一個重點就是稀缺稀缺的淡黃區土地太少了然後那個才是真正有需求的人所需要的地段既然您剛講說社宅的興建會越來越少那為什麼今年住住中心還要增加35個名額然後增加將近9000萬的經費"},{"start":8113.816,"end":8142.027,"text":"報告委員我們現在的方向有三個第一個社會住宅的興建那第二個呢就是現在已經完成的社會住宅還需要有人做這個社會住宅的管理然後再加上我們現在還有都市更新公辦的都更所以有三個面向但是這些人數呢我有要求住住中心已經要做這個檢討不能夠以增加員工人數為主所以說可能針對這部分可能住住中心也要了解一下"},{"start":8142.467,"end":8159.214,"text":"既然我們接下來不該設 設宅會越蓋越少所以住宅中心的這個原額事實上必須要調整經費也應該要減少才對喔那另外還有就是最後想要請教你就說現在既然剛剛聽部長講重心都轉向包租貸款跟租金補貼那當時呢我們來看到為了擴大租金補貼2.0當時為了衝業績內政部就宣傳說免房東同意直接申請手續減變"},{"start":8168.337,"end":8187.65,"text":"然後告訴年輕人放心來申請吧 政府挺你結果現在他們忽然收到了這個叫他們要補繳的租金補貼要繳回的通知因為說房東說房東房子的稅籍不符或建屋用途不對然後發公文叫弱勢的房客把錢繳回來動輒幾萬 動輒十幾萬"},{"start":8192.333,"end":8220.318,"text":"其實會要求租金補貼的人其實他們就是相對弱勢那這樣子為了當時你們要去這個衝這樣的一個業績結果造成我們的這房客受到這麼大的一個問題那針對這個部分國土署說反環困難可分期付款這不是反環困難的問題這是當時你們的政策的推廣的時候造成房東造成房客不了解政策而被迫這樣做這樣子的一個騙大家上車之後然後後續"},{"start":8221.138,"end":8246.059,"text":"再對弱勢人進行抄家這樣子可行嗎報告委員我們會跟地方政府來做精進的方案因為這裡面包括第一個他身份變更第二個呢他所住的住宅是不是符合我們當時所做的住宅的部分呢都需要後續的查核然後再來就是也有可能他因為短期的租屋譬如說寒暑假所以會造成我們查核上的困難也就是說我們第一線的查核是在地方政府"},{"start":8246.559,"end":8269.425,"text":"然後第二線的這個複合是在中央政府那中央政府發現說複合有困難複合有狀況的時候就會要求第一線的地方政府需要做追回的這個工作如果當時如果有宣傳說免房東同意直接申請手續減便而造成房客的這個誤導的話我覺得這個部分我們就應該要來好好的解決這個問題而不是說事後稽查的問題"},{"start":8272.156,"end":8291.723,"text":"我們應該是有定型化的契約的提供但是在處理的過程當中一定會有這些困擾是不是有這樣的問題如果有的話我覺得就是政府應該來解決這樣的問題我們會來幫忙跟地方政府一起來解決因為目前大概是百分之1.3左右出現這樣的狀況我想會來使用租金補貼就是他相對弱勢我們一定要幫他解決問題"},{"start":8298.295,"end":8303.958,"text":"好謝謝徐宇貞委員的發言接下來我們請劉許廷委員發言跟委員會報告我們在劉許廷委員訓導完之後我們休息5分鐘之後我們再處理我們的臨時提案好謝謝主席內政部部長有請請劉部長委員好部長午安這個現在"},{"start":8327.591,"end":8354.936,"text":"我就直接問問題好了就現在確定這個減少直接興建社會住宅已經確定是中央政府的政策方向了嗎在目前為止我們已經有跟院長報告過但是我們的總目標100萬還是沒有變我只問你直接興建社宅嗎直接用樹地來興建的部分可能會減少但是並不是表示停止跟委員報告因為太多人在網路上面用誤解的方式來誤解我們的社會住宅政策"},{"start":8356.397,"end":8379.637,"text":"所以不是不蓋只是減少是吧因為目前在溝通上出現困擾所謂的溝通上出現困擾就是說包括這個北北桃中的這個四個市政府了他們現在也目前也出現是站就是說速度會變慢那大概速度變慢這個牛委員都非常清楚您對這一塊是非常有精闢的見解的所以我們就是跟著他配合"},{"start":8379.977,"end":8398.042,"text":"部長因為賴清德總統在2023年9月20號在社宅推動聯盟的拜會場合中公開宣誓說我當選總統之後將會在蔡總統20萬戶的基礎上以兩任8年進行規劃增加直接興建社會住宅新增13萬戶所以就跳票了對不對"},{"start":8399.302,"end":8424.228,"text":"目前賴總統上任是一年半多那我們是朝著這個方向來努力但是我想您剛也看到了就是蔡總統的8年任內的20萬戶很辛苦目前很辛苦我理解我從來都很我看這個是一定很寬啦但是你如果就講今天你講政策要修正那你就要承認嘛你當初開出來的支票太大張而且有跳票的狀況部長你會不會承認這件事"},{"start":8425.739,"end":8441.435,"text":"我覺得在數據上確實是需要調整數據上確實是需要調整好現在很多人當然這個事情當然就社會震動啦尤其是關注居住正義政策的公民團體也好有需求的人們也好這原因是什麼我想我們也講得很清楚不管在媒體上或怎麼樣都講得非常清楚"},{"start":8441.815,"end":8458.35,"text":"因為在過去這麼一段時間討論居住正義的政策流變裡面直接興建住宅到了最後其實是變成大家的平衡點因為你很多深水區的東西比如說當然我們也看到之前內政部有講國土署有講我們可以釋出很多的空屋那我們是不是要克爭"},{"start":8459.531,"end":8479.546,"text":"更重的囤房稅等等呢這些東西前面很多人倡議但之所以沒有辦法一步到位就是因為這東西涉及了更複雜的利益結構然後以至於要推動相關的政策要付出更高的成本所以果足不前嘛我們前一段時間在這個地方去審理住宅法去討論到稅制的問題的時候政府也一律是保守以對嘛"},{"start":8480.186,"end":8489.258,"text":"這就是為什麼到了最後大家就是期待說我可以直接興建社宅所以我們有更穩健的社會住宅政策確實政府要花很多錢去興建社會住宅但是難道不值得嗎 部長"},{"start":8490.767,"end":8517.788,"text":"穩健的社會住宅政策是我們共識性最高的那如何做到穩健的社會住宅政策我剛跟委員報告過我們必須要一步一腳印而且呢在數據上面的我們可能會調整但是並不是表示說完全歸零部長我們之前在這個地方討論過很多住宅相關的政策大家也都非常清楚其實你在直接興建社會住宅裡面成本最高的其實就是土地嘛如果土地有辦法順利取得你還會覺得這件事情財務負擔非常大嗎"},{"start":8520.011,"end":8549.125,"text":"不是啦如果社宅的土地可以順利的取得直接興建社會住宅的政策的阻力會不會那麼大會不會壓力很大不能只有因為土地成本而已還有其他的成本譬如說跟委員報告有些社會住宅所興建的地區它等於是一個造鎮的計畫那造鎮計畫裡面交通運輸都市計畫的變更等等這些都是需要曠日廢時的這個委員了解的非常的清楚這就是本席今天要特別跟你討論因為我們看到"},{"start":8549.745,"end":8571.653,"text":"當然你推證這政策很困難 你有很多的理由是本心願意理解但很多理由其實完全站不住腳的 譬如說我最不能接受的一點 我最不能理解的理由就是說我們沒有什麼剩餘的國有地啦剩下的國有地都在偏遠的地區啊 蓋了也沒有人要住欸這非常荒唐部長 你也抓內政部對不對 國土組也抓這麼多的都市計畫我們光是北北七桃這四個縣市啊 現在有多少條捷運正在蓋北北桃中"},{"start":8573.407,"end":8598.03,"text":"沒關係我先講北北基桃就好北部事件事就好我還先不講台中跟南台灣的獨匯區我先講北台灣的獨匯區就好有多少條捷運正在蓋部長知道嗎多少條捷運正在蓋對大概就好你是說新北還是基隆北北基桃基隆是北北基桃你現在是講哪一條線有多少條捷運正在興建幾條 三條吧沒關係今天交通部不在我不為難你我唸給你聽"},{"start":8599.97,"end":8621.012,"text":"環狀線有北環東環南環萬大線有一期二期有汐止民生線有基隆捷運在桃園有中線有綠線綠線延伸中立還有鐵路地下化等等這些捷運的大型建設計畫很多基本上至少都是進到綜合規劃階段很多都已經核定了這些計畫會帶來多少廠商開發TOD的都市計畫變更"},{"start":8622.333,"end":8643.926,"text":"我知道委員就是要告訴我TOD但是TOD是不是能夠變成唯一拉動這個直接興建社宅的一個因素其實都是要多重討論所以我剛有提到說我們的態度是穩健的推動社會住宅政策我現在就很擔心啦因為光是這些有捷運建設的地方它怎麼會是偏遠而且沒有人會願意居住的地方呢他們都是有人願意居住的地方"},{"start":8644.386,"end":8661.88,"text":"所以需要時間我們當初在修正住宅法的時候可能需要十年的時間我們一度有在討論是不是要把這些區段徵收勢力重劃等等取得我留一定的比例一定要興建設宅就是給你大量的土地結果你當初內政部的態度是什麼說我們不要把這個寫得太死不要把它講得太明我們一定會做"},{"start":8663.301,"end":8673.124,"text":"結果結論是如果我們沒有給予相關的一些措施的時候你的結論就是不做嘛然後你開始說我土地取得很困難這不是很奇怪嗎明明就有法國上的條件有建設上的帶動啊如果你認為說3%跟5%的土地取得的話可能要入法因為我們在過去的一段時間當中跟所謂的直轄市政府也討論過有些直轄市政府就直接反對3%到5%嘛"},{"start":8684.808,"end":8713.071,"text":"所以我跟你講嘛所以我剛有提到說我們在直接興建社會住宅裡面最大的問題是溝通溝通還包括中央政府跟地方政府的溝通所以部長你現在是在指控這些直轄市的線索都不想蓋社宅嗎因為就本席的理解地方政府對於這個計畫是不會排斥的嘛不會排斥那你為什麼要自己踩煞車呢對不對我們也沒有踩煞車我剛跟委員報告過我們現在在調整方向怎麼樣穩健的推動包括桃園市長跟新北市長他們也覺得穩健的推動非常的重要"},{"start":8714.364,"end":8730.049,"text":"我們如果沒有一起合作中央政府如果沒有跟地方政府一起合作的話社會住宅是蓋不成的當然嘛所以我們沒有要踩煞車嘛委員你這樣講你沒有要踩煞車你就維持13萬戶的宣誓你盡量去做不就好了嗎那你為什麼要主動講說我們蓋不成我們現在努力的推進當中"},{"start":8731.349,"end":8746.994,"text":"那不就很奇怪嗎但是沒有定案沒有定案又變怎麼回事不是 報告委員每一件每一件事情都是要穩健推動的時候從土地的取得到資金到TOD到都市計畫都是要跟地方政府一起來合作"},{"start":8748.094,"end":8776.08,"text":"積極的去取得積極的去推動我們非常的積極那你們很積極所以才要穩健那為什麼你要把13萬戶計畫砍掉嘛你為什麼辭職不核定然後最後說我要我們還有說砍掉呢我們意思是要調整這個方向那你為什麼要調整呢那這個方向可要調整方向是因為在有限的時間裡面要麻煩地方政府非常的多而且地方政府他們原先所提出的答應直接興建的戶數也非常的多甚至有些到目前為止就有完成千戶"},{"start":8776.48,"end":8804.814,"text":"而不是萬戶 你有很多的新計畫各地方縣市政府也有若干的進度或一些想法這樣子好了你會後提供相關的資料因為你一下講說我們還是很積極一下講說穩健一下講說還沒有定案沒有 這些都是可及性務實性跟精準性三個原則你會後提供相關的資料到底現在直接興建社會住宅的時間表你的穩健所謂的等等相關的一些資料做一下提供讓大家做長期追蹤但本席是建議啦"},{"start":8805.888,"end":8827.221,"text":"就按照13萬戶的目標 你去拼嘛而不是說 我今天做不到 我就砍我現在 現在大家擔心破窗啊我說13萬戶 現在一下變6萬 一下說4萬 對不對會不會過兩年變2萬變1萬這個是人民的擔心啦這本其實是提醒你而已 好不好希望部長好好加油對不起 原民會我還有一分鐘部長請回 原民會主委委員好"},{"start":8835.322,"end":8855.035,"text":"主委 這個我們跟你討論一下桃園羅府的那個市地重劃案因為跟你手下開會開了半天耶這個大概是第一個有涉及原保地但是這個我想在市政府規劃相關的案例裡面對於土地的運用 地主的權益其實都已經做了確保但是因為法規上的一些疏漏而且過去沒有這樣子的一個案例喔所以還是停滯不前啊"},{"start":8855.635,"end":8863.624,"text":"那看起來這個原民會的態度現在是怎樣如果不修法你就一定不會沒有辦法用任何其他的方式來調整這樣這是可以圓滿的意思嗎"},{"start":8866.491,"end":8885.476,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們在去年12月21號的時候有請桃園市政府針對4D重畫因為這個案子涉及到的原住民地主有14位那14位地主當中如果依照重畫完之後獲配的只有3位所以我們要求桃園市政府"},{"start":8887.857,"end":8912.788,"text":"針對其他的沒有受配的11個土地所有權人的部分進行說明會那桃園市政府後來也召開說明會但是這次說明會當中只有3個地主有到11個基地地主都沒有到那這3個地主當中甚至有幾乎都是反對就是說他們重案所以我們覺得說在這樣子的一個程序正義的部分我們會要求桃園市政府"},{"start":8913.228,"end":8919.329,"text":"就讓我們的這14個地主的部分他有資的權利知道說他們這個重劃案對他們的土地權益有什麼影響所以我們已經要求桃園市政府針對這未到的11個原住民地主然後進一步的說明本期要擔心因為我們那時候協調會其實就是這樣嘛桃園市政府要去負責地主溝通的相關的一個部分嘛那我們這邊要負責法規上的解釋的排除部分我們要擔心的是會不會地主溝通大家都OK了到時候你還是卡在法規會不會不會確定不會喔不會這裡可以押軍令狀喔"},{"start":8943.555,"end":8970.147,"text":"不是 根據土委報告其實因為那個土地重劃的主管機關在內政部地政室其實我沒有跟內政部地政室協調講好了嘛其實他們正式含附的文的部分其實並沒有具體回覆就是說這個如果4D重劃的結果如果是不是算是由政府取得這種情形所以這個部分我們還是回歸到我們三保條例37條有關於原保地發射的精神是在保障原住民生計的這樣子的一個立場所以我才講"},{"start":8971.467,"end":8996.004,"text":"這跟相關地主的權益溝通這個市政府要把它做好對對對對對那只要他們同意這個要件就算符合了對嗎還要考慮到說法規面的問題這就是本期今天問這個問題會不會大家溝通好了到最後你還說我還是要考慮法規面的問題可是跟委員報告其實目前來看我們在去年12月21號召開這個說明會三個地主已經到這三個地主的部分其實幾乎都反對的"},{"start":8996.744,"end":9014.181,"text":"不是 地主的問題不是你要處理的嘛是市政府要去溝通的嘛我要問的是程序面的問題只要地主都講好是不是就可以嘛還是我一定要為了這個事情就要去啟動修法我覺得是很奇怪這當然也是有公共利益啊因為未來也許會有其他的案例也是這樣做處理的只要地主的權益可以被確保原民的權益不會受損其實應該要樂見地方的有辦法"},{"start":9015.862,"end":9032.524,"text":"做合理的重新規劃跟發展報告委員我們原民會針對那個原住民保地卡的管理辦法現在主管機關的立場就是要保障原住民族的一個生計所以這樣子的一個立場我們會去從這個方向去解釋對 所以這個主委就他說了算"},{"start":9033.479,"end":9059.219,"text":"不管怎麼樣都還是要看法規嗎還是你可以做個組決定一下這件事我們可以用政策解釋的方式處理嘛你說政策解釋我就回去催桃園市政府趕快完成溝通程序這事就圓滿了嘛可以做到這樣嗎希望兩方面都能夠完成啦尤其是那個你現在又變希望兩方面都要完成了對對對對所以那還是要修法律師囉要解套的話對齁 你說的是對 好 這樣我知道了謝謝 辛苦了"},{"start":9062.318,"end":9065.439,"text":"好謝謝牛軒體育委員的質詢我們現在休息5分鐘"},{"start":9108.886,"end":9109.687,"text":"副市長 副市長"},{"start":9115.158,"end":9122.529,"text":"因為他自己說 你說要多一分鐘我才說要多一分鐘是是是"},{"start":9137.176,"end":9166.391,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9178.37,"end":9193.122,"text":"順遂順遂順遂順遂好 我們再請一位來打招呼請我們有兩位大家拜訪就好我們也要問這個針對針對針對被遛住的針對我們再講清楚"},{"start":9196.8,"end":9216.681,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9239.674,"end":9239.895,"text":"請出席"},{"start":9742.481,"end":9754.872,"text":"我們現在繼續開會我們處理臨時提案現在處理臨時提案共識案請宣讀臨時提案一針對內政部一再生能源發展條例第12條之一第二項授權陣營裡建築物設置太陽光"},{"start":9758.358,"end":9775.937,"text":"電發電設備標準草案你規定一定規模以上新建增建或改建建築物應強制設置太陽光點鑒於該辦法已於一百十四年十二月十九日發布且社會各界對於將一般住宅及商業辦公大樓納入強制範圍存有消防安全產權維護及增加建築成本之高度疑慮"},{"start":9777.112,"end":9806.592,"text":"為避免執行之外原提案要求內政部與經濟部在再生能源發展條例第12條之一施行日期與行政院核定前應加強該標準政策宣導及溝通以消敏一般住宅及商業辦公大樓施行之疑慮提案人委員張志倫等臨時提案二社會住宅是中央與地方共同推動的重要居住政策對於照顧青年弱勢族群及穩定都市居住環境具有實質注意"},{"start":9807.028,"end":9832.395,"text":"嘉義市屬高度發展的都市區人口其中居住需求持續存在確實有興建社會住宅的必要性目前嘉義市先前評估規劃的社會住宅案已陸續進入施工階段顯示政策方向正確需求確實存在展望未來隨著都市發展與人口結構變化嘉義市對於社會住宅仍有持續推動的空間與必要性且部分用地與規劃作業已在進行中因此建議中央應"},{"start":9833.495,"end":9857.118,"text":"中央依适合之用地与地方政府加速相关规划与新建作业以回应市民实际居住需求落实居住正义提案人委员王美惠等临时提案三有鉴于国家语言整体发展方案之政策目的系在强化原住民族语之保存复正与传播能量其中原住民族语节目影音制作计划跨国族语节目"},{"start":9857.645,"end":9874.817,"text":"制播計畫編列經費原意在於提升族語發展培力節目自製能力與國際交流制播量能為相關經費遭挪作與族語無關之運動會及周邊活動形同掛羊頭賣狗肉已非單純行政調整而是偏離法定政策目的"},{"start":9875.297,"end":9897.621,"text":"掏空族語振興之重大疑慮有有勝者該筆款向西京立法院接避監督後方得保留資金費原住民族委員會不僅未記取教訓反疑似變本加厲以活動包裝規避監督損及國家語言政策公信力亦傷害族人對政府推動族語附贈之信任"},{"start":9900.124,"end":9915.371,"text":"為釐清經費用途合法性政策目的符合性及責任歸屬 原請原住民族委員會於一個月內研議辦理下列事項 並以書面含附本席國會辦公室必立後續審查與追責"},{"start":9916.243,"end":9934.273,"text":"一 釐清法源與目的就跨國族與節目制播計畫之核定目的應辦工作項目預期成果指標與可知用範圍提出明確書面說明並說明本案是否符合強化族與發展與節目自治能力之政策目的及法源依據二 完整揭露預算與支出"},{"start":9934.713,"end":9963.547,"text":"提出本案八千五百萬元之完整預算編列與執行明細含用途別科目各項採購契約金額委外項目付款期程和銷評證類型並逐項說明一 為何僅六集節目集資出高達八千五百萬元之成本合理性與市場比較依據二 近九成經費用於活動辦理之必要性與足以製播之關聯性及其成果驗收方式三 是否涉及周邊販售宣傳支出與其收入流向與會計處理"},{"start":9964.887,"end":9985.832,"text":"是經費支出之檢討若經查核認定涉及與計劃目的無關之支出或不符預算科目及核銷規範者請提出主筆追回責任追究與行政懲處之具體做法與時程並提出後續防弊機制含專案集合與公開透明措施提案人委員高清素梅等"},{"start":9987.052,"end":10013.207,"text":"臨時提案4有鑒於部落公法人制度之本質本質系在建構部落治理制度包含部落決策機制之建立角色分工與責任鏈之釐清使部落得以由組織有程序回應公共事務並落實原住民族自治精神為原住民族委員會迄今遲未公布相關辦法與配套制度配套反而先行推動114年度部落公法人事辦計畫致原住民族各界難以支持與理解"},{"start":10013.647,"end":10038.533,"text":"亦引發制度正當性與程序正義之重大疑慮有有勝者即便以事辦名義推動仍應遵循由下而上之部落自主原則採公平公正公開之程序確保部落充分知情自由選擇與實質參與若以自上而下命令式推動將使事辦淪為行政績效工程背離部落自治初衷並可能造成部落內部分裂與治理負擔外部化影響部落長期治理穩定"},{"start":10039.344,"end":10057.988,"text":"據此原請原住民族委員會於兩週內研議辦理下列事項並以書面函附本席國會辦公室必立後續監督與審查以緊述完備法治與配套請提出部落工法人相關辦法含設立要建組織架構權責範圍財務制度監督與救濟機制等之具體公布時程與草案內容"},{"start":10058.728,"end":10074.22,"text":"並說明預期未公布之原因及補救措施而釐清事辦之法律依據與政策目的請說明114年度部落工法人事辦計畫之法源依據政策目標預計成果指標事辦範圍與適用條件並提出與正式制度銜接之路徑圖與退場機制"},{"start":10075.841,"end":10088.693,"text":"三 建立由下而上之公平公開程序施辦計畫之遴選與參與英才公開徵見資訊透明評選標準明確審查委員組成公開之方式辦理並確保部落有充分討論其與部落會議決議程序"},{"start":10090.715,"end":10110.905,"text":"請提出完整作業流程時程表及部落知情同意之具體做法本席重申部落公法人士部落治理的制度基礎制度未完備程序不正當事辦只會消耗部落信任破壞自治初衷請原民會以部落為主體以程序為底線以法治為依歸勿在本末導致提案人文高精素美等宣讀完畢"},{"start":10114.615,"end":10127.925,"text":"跟各位報告在我們相關單位跟我們提案委員說明之後我們臨時提案第一案第二案第三案依溝通結果通過第四案照案通過那我們現在繼續開會我們接下來請鄭天才委員發言"},{"start":10150.706,"end":10176.091,"text":"主席 各位委員 有請主委委員好 主委好這個原住民族教育程度的落差主委知道嗎原住民跟非原住民大專學生的出債協力的差距多少"},{"start":10177.369,"end":10181.711,"text":"75%到90%好 正確的數字這個表示 這個我們園民會的處要加油我質詢過這個教育部你們同仁也在 回去要跟主委報告"},{"start":10200.106,"end":10227.636,"text":"原住民近5年大專校園原住民學生的出債協力107學年度是差距是31.9然後逐年增高113學年度差距高達36.85%今天延命會的業務報告裡面都特別提到提升原住民的人才"},{"start":10229.385,"end":10255.891,"text":"這個教育是最重要最重要的這個最重要的 最重中之重 教育所以這個部分 園民會要去重視當然你會覺得說跟我的業務沒有很大的關係事實上你們要去協調有幾個部分要去協調教育部分第一個部分 外加名額過去我們這個 主委"},{"start":10258.171,"end":10284.221,"text":"我們過去考大學的時候不是外加名後來改為外加2%這個杜部長杜正勝部長的時候把它改為外加2%我經過協調之後部分的科系現在教育部可以提高為5%外加5%但是那個科系太少而且這個規定教育部的這個辦法的規定"},{"start":10286.232,"end":10314.293,"text":"是要研民會跟教育部一起去跟大專校園能夠增加這些科系所以這個部分最好是全部改為外加5%因為我們的落差太大了可以去協調嗎 主委可以 我們來跟部長這邊來協調也要請我們的副主委要積極的去協助這個主委去跟教育部協調過去我當副主委都是去協調 負責去協調"},{"start":10317.25,"end":10322.354,"text":"另外一個問題就是在協雜費 協雜費 教育部的協雜費的減免這個會跟什麼有關係呢 跟我們的休閒 退閒就跟經費有關係 就跟這個教育經費有關係"},{"start":10336.769,"end":10357.776,"text":"你看我們111學年度大專以上學生休學原住民是10.55%一般的非原住民只有5.87%差距差不多將近一半我們的退學率更高13.01%也將近5.63%的一個落差這個就是跟沒有經費預算尤其"},{"start":10366.977,"end":10394.818,"text":"因為外加2%之後就去念私立大學私立大學的費用又高啊經費付不起又要去辦公辦讀當然就影響這個學業嘛就會休學甚至會退學這個都跟經費有關係所以112年6月29號行政院公佈了私立大專學校的學雜費非研鑽民可以掃腳"},{"start":10398.081,"end":10423.979,"text":"3.5萬但是原住民完全沒有受益因為用不到因為我們有另外一個制度所以本席在112年7月就協調但是經過了8年都沒有調整所以這個要請教育那個研民會也要去協調教育部因為原住民族教育的經費每年編列的時候研民會跟教育部要去協調"},{"start":10425.359,"end":10445.45,"text":"原住民族教育經費不能超少於多少那個部分你們要怎麼樣去調整在這個教育的這個相關的這些經費裡面這是非常非常的重要所以這個要請這個園民會盡速的去協調園民會自己本身的部分110年講述學經"},{"start":10449.811,"end":10478.112,"text":"獎助學金的部分從111年到現在也都沒有調整物價指數各方面也都是應該去協調所以你們的預算的編列怎麼樣去針對原住民族教育能夠有所重視這個部分主委這個要去修正我們檢討要檢討接下來原住民族綜合發展基金很重要"},{"start":10478.905,"end":10484.266,"text":"你看105年12月31號的結算數淨值淨值高達117億7千多萬元經過因為淨法補償被挪用 作為淨法補償所以112 12月31號結算數是負的 本來是淨值"},{"start":10504.318,"end":10529.191,"text":"正數115億變成負的63億累積到114年12月31日累積短數負的67億6千多萬到113年一樣累積短數又增加負的68億8千多萬所以這樣的一個情形你們要做其他事情都很困難所以這個要去爭取"},{"start":10530.734,"end":10558.014,"text":"主委你要知道當初沒有原住民足跡本法的時候每年我從原住民行政 台灣省原住民行政局的副局長開始去協調足跡單位每年去撥幾億幾億才會有達到100多億是這樣的一個基礎所以這個部分你要一直短促"},{"start":10559.246,"end":10584.021,"text":"立法院在第九屆第二會期就做了決議106年的時候就做了決議應該要去撥補所以我們高軍數美委員跟本席有共同的提案要修這個原住民族基本法第18條把它明定在因為100億我們本來就超過100億對不對我們要修法"},{"start":10585.051,"end":10604.356,"text":"所以你們要去協調相關的部會要支持這個修法可以嗎可以 今年有補助五億一直五億來這個有補充五億到這裡來那個主委那個我清楚那個是還是去做進法補償的所以這個進法補償的要扣掉"},{"start":10605.676,"end":10622.637,"text":"本來就不應該 淨法補償本來應該用公務預算的所以這個不我們這個這個去協調反正要讓他回到100億的一個方向這個是有這個基金你才可以做很多的事情包括貸款 臨住民保障貸款"},{"start":10624.435,"end":10635.889,"text":"開始做了但是這個利率既然已經有綜合發展基金去做這個信託就應該要降低這個利率結果利率還高達2.28%這樣的一個利率比其他的"},{"start":10643.28,"end":10670.595,"text":"其他的新清安房貸一般型房貸什麼那個都比較都來的比較低我們的還是高所以等於既然有了信保就應該既然有基金去保證就應該降低它的利率這才是一個對我們原住民的潛意的一個保障這個接下來內政部部長也來一下內政部好 謝謝"},{"start":10672.526,"end":10701.518,"text":"主委你也要在場這是你的業務我是舉例過去沒有原基法的時代沒有原住民族基本法的時代台灣省政府開始每年的編列相關的這些基隆國宅包括我們這個新店中正原住民的住宅當初馬耀古木帶頭抗議去到台灣省政府"},{"start":10702.233,"end":10729.063,"text":"我那時候是副組委副局長還是副組委那時候去興建買了這個中正國宅對不對像這樣的當初就是用政府的經費公務預算你看現在當然又出了問題你看我們這個新店三峽也是用公務預算這個相關的棄子的花東新村也都是用公務預算"},{"start":10730.936,"end":10756.18,"text":"那時候都沒有住宅法 也沒有延期法那現在有了延期法 測定原住民族住宅政策然後要對都會區的安基要有保障 要協助然後住宅法第2條第4項英式原住民族教育及語言文化等傳承發展要新建"},{"start":10757.334,"end":10779.47,"text":"專攻原住民成豬的社會住宅105年12月23號修正到現在到現在沒有一個原住民的專屬的原住民族住宅所以現在都會區的原住民人口已經高達52.8%了我們的相關的這些原住民族住宅的自由利"},{"start":10780.327,"end":10805.826,"text":"新北市台北市桃園市台中市都差距百分之三十左右啊這樣的一個差距當然要去加加強我們的原住民專屬的社會住宅但是到現在為止都沒有一個主要還是經費嘛還要經費所以本席啊針對園民會的一百一十四到一百一十七也曾經"},{"start":10808.783,"end":10832.224,"text":"協調國發會當然就內政部而言你們的住宅基金難道都不能提供作為興建原住民專屬的社會住宅嗎都沒有做你看看這個國發會的主委都同意要列在這個列在這個原住民住宅的四年計畫裡面"},{"start":10834.695,"end":10861.393,"text":"質詢答覆本席也發了公文把國發會主任委員的承諾也都發文給人民會都沒有做所以要去加油去修正提出去送出去我們共同的去協調相關的部會甚至行政院這個處長趕快發文"},{"start":10863.848,"end":10889.023,"text":"反正修正了 還沒有做嘛 對不對這個已經快要一年了 這個一定要去爭取我們部長請回座 部長請回座最後 這個主委花蓮光復鄉馬太安溪淹涉浮造成重大的傷亡 包括住宅"},{"start":10890.444,"end":10916.974,"text":"相關的這些我們已經受害非常的深了現在經濟部水利署要將這個馬太安溪河道治理土石的站置場要放在馬太安部落的香草場的部落裡面這個部分要請嚴明會第一個這裡面很多的土地部落"},{"start":10917.901,"end":10946.313,"text":"原住民的土地還是國有土地增花邊保留地因為跟分割經費沒有一直到現在幾十年都沒有辦保留地他沒有拿到所有錢到時候真的是被強制做土石站置廠的時候他完全拿不到任何的對不對連補償那個人的徵收都沒有辦法都沒有都不會有啊"},{"start":10947.392,"end":10974.228,"text":"所以這個部分要請這個人民會第一個保留地的趕快去加速辦理第二個這是我們的部落要依延期法依延期法因為馬太安西苑社府的特別條例有提到要依延期法所以你們要跟那個經濟部所謂律師說你要設這個戰車場"},{"start":10976.465,"end":10993.344,"text":"要依延期法 要經過馬太安部落的諮商同意可以嗎 趕快發文給他們 好 謝謝謝謝鄭天才委員的質詢 接下來我們請鄭正前委員發言"},{"start":11005.366,"end":11008.068,"text":"謝謝主席我想請一下劉世芳部長請劉部長部長好今天的那個主題其實就是我們的社宅原本是宣誓要做13萬"},{"start":11024.647,"end":11052.258,"text":"那現在可能就往下修我剛剛有聽您大概提到說可能會下修的數量大概是到4到6萬對不對是不是這個數字是目前是這樣子但是還沒有完全定案要看我們跟因為我們還有主要有兩三個市政府還沒有去拜訪那我想說量下修啦可以理解那不過某個部分也是算是一個正式的跳票可是我想品質不會下修吧對不對完全不會完全不會嗎好那我想請教部長"},{"start":11053.098,"end":11062.285,"text":"因為內政部在2021年有宣示未來興建社宅必須同時符合綠建築 智慧建築跟內政三大標章2021年就開始所以這個政策不會改變吧"},{"start":11067.168,"end":11087.19,"text":"到目前為止也是這樣子沒有改變嗎OK好那我想請教一下確實是有些社宅建案是符合這三種的標章都繼續我想請問一下高雄的人物安居社會住宅是不是完全符合上述的三大標章的規範我是不是請可以請董事長 花董事長請"},{"start":11087.99,"end":11104.869,"text":"官員報告原則上我們的社宅除了最早的一兩個案子可能只有兩個沒有三個之外我們後面一百因為我們現在一百六十九個案子是所以說應該全部都至少應該都全部都是嘛所以那個忍武安居算在後來的部分嘛不是前面兩個嘛對不對"},{"start":11106.27,"end":11131.446,"text":"應該是好的我想說確實在住都中心他在整個施工規範跟施工和材料管理標準裡面都非常的清楚都確實也都講到包括在鋪地磚的章節當中的時候也都講得非常的細確實都有我們去看到了比方說包括蘆洲的青年社宅等等他們確實也都有具體的公佈"},{"start":11132.126,"end":11151.264,"text":"我們在用地磚的時候它要符合這三大項的一個部分可是因為本席這邊就收到了一些澄清的狀態在高雄人物的這個案件當中的時候它的地磚的部分疑似沒有符合標準你往下看我想請教一下董事長"},{"start":11153.349,"end":11171.335,"text":"針對那個CM再往下CM60AB3這個品名的地磚因為這很細啦我也不能指望說你現在馬上可以回覆可是這個地磚當中的時候它是不是符合綠建築標章"},{"start":11173.134,"end":11202.474,"text":"你應該很難馬上回覆你可以之後再給那我直接跟你講因為這個是越南製的他不符合這個標章而且事實上對於整個既然沒有綠建材標章的時候他也沒有讓納入綠建材資料庫裡面都沒有那環保標章也沒有也沒有綠建材證書像這樣的狀態為什麼可以進到社宅的工地裡頭去可不可以請董事長回應一下我立刻查好不好讓我立刻查"},{"start":11203.534,"end":11213.682,"text":"一個禮拜請給本席很清楚的一個資料就是本案件核准所有的地專的一個型號還有綠建材證書的編號跟有效的期間還有送審的材料還有核准的文件這些部分請一併給我們"},{"start":11222.708,"end":11237.737,"text":"因為我們認為社宅如果總量的時候現在政策上要下修量是一回事品質不能打折扣當然對不對所以這個部分請務必給本席一個很清楚狀態一個禮拜可以給本席一個禮拜可以"},{"start":11239.318,"end":11255.677,"text":"好 那這個部分的時候我想說我再繼續再問另外一個問題請教部長因為從1月1號開始的時候台灣的那個建築營造業出現了一個土方之亂那我不知道部長知不知道這個事情"},{"start":11257.5,"end":11285.242,"text":"對 在土方跟土資廠的部分我們了解其實對於剩餘土石方的管理數位化這個部分這個方向本息是支持的可是在整個做的過程當中因為整個制度改變得非常的快去化量 跨縣市的一個調度還有系統韌性跟整個契約配套感覺沒有跟上我想請教部長因為內政部那邊有直接講說目前全國的收納量人"},{"start":11285.942,"end":11302.494,"text":"是1億5110萬立方這個數字是怎麼來的然後這個數字當中的時候呢有多少是立即可以動用能量有多少是已經符合所有的法律程序可以用有多少只是計畫當中的可不可以請部長"},{"start":11303.594,"end":11317.722,"text":"報告委員其實我們在去年五六月的時候呢三個部會已經同時宣告這個部分只是有一些民間業者呢對這方面的了解不夠深入那有關這個總量的部分我是不是請我們這個大署長跟您回應一下"},{"start":11320.246,"end":11346.275,"text":"委員好那有關這個以五千萬方的這個部分是由行政院跨部會來協調那當然除了原來本來地方政府他就有我要問的是現在馬上可以用的還是未來才可以用因為現在馬上碰到了幾個大問題一個是去化量能不足第二個狀態就是內政部這邊說我們一天台灣至少要有六千台的那個運輸的車"},{"start":11348.209,"end":11374.101,"text":"要裝GPS新的政策要裝GPS請問現在總共有裝到多少的量現在我們的內增部的GPS已經到近5000台快5000台然後再加上環保的機它目前也有1832總共有6821台那請教一下代理處長你知道現在目前這個狀態的時候目前整個業界幾乎都停擺因為"},{"start":11375.302,"end":11402.367,"text":"碰到幾個狀態因為整個土方城門馬上的一個上升然後工程可能會碰到延宕的一個問題那我直接講比較具體的狀態因為你剛剛還沒有回答我就是1億5110萬立方可以處理的量如果有這麼多去化量的時候正常不會造成市場上這麼塞車的情況因為我們去年整個公共工程這邊出來的數字大概是3600萬立方米一年的使用去化量可是如果說有1.5億"},{"start":11404.742,"end":11433.269,"text":"這麼大的一個去化量的時候正常不應該塞車啦那我們也確實是希望說我們這個制度好的制度讓整個台灣的環境好的制度我們就要往下走只是過程當中怎麼樣讓它走得順剛剛部長這邊有提到說是廠商還不了解狀態這個就是我們在推動政策的時候必須要去處理的問題啊不能夠所有的問題就全部都推給廠商去嘛我們要協助他們來解決所以我這邊最後一個部分我想很具體的要求國土署這邊"},{"start":11434.309,"end":11458.85,"text":"是不是能夠去了解去調查一下目前這些公共工程的部分大概有多少會因為這樣的一個土石方的一個政策的一個調整而受到延宕如果是受到延宕的時候是不是能夠協調公共工程委員會用制度性的來處理這件事情然後讓這些工程延宕的部分能夠有一個"},{"start":11460.471,"end":11483.101,"text":"調整的一個標準可不可以請代理署長回答一下目前來講公共工程部分其實現在院裡面都有在來協調所以公共工程的部分其實沒有太大問題現在主要是民間工程我們今天也會在下午因為其實我們已經部長在上個禮拜已經都邀集我們六都以及新竹縣市來討論今天下午會把所有的縣市通通再找來把現在所有的處理的"},{"start":11484.942,"end":11507.014,"text":"對策 向大家說明 目前來講我們內政部都有積極 譬如像剛剛講的GPS的裝還有這些最終的處置的這些場所那這一五千萬方式有些是中長期的沒有錯 但是目前中長期就沒有辦法滿足現在狀態所以現在才會塞車嘛那你剛剛提到說公共工程部分可能可以顧到可是民間的業者完全塞車"},{"start":11507.754,"end":11531.562,"text":"那我在想說新政策推出一定也不是只要滿足公共工程的需求我們希望整個市場都能夠得到一樣的一個照顧好不好所以針對這個部分的時候我們希望說國土組這邊很具體的告訴我們有多少的量可以馬上去做去化的而不是只處理公共工程的部分民間的部分也需要讓他們有一個合理的去化的一個去向好不好"},{"start":11532.808,"end":11560.665,"text":"是好我們現在有一個那個行部長再回報告委員我想我們必須要很務實的跟委員報告我們大概三個方向第一個就是擴增土資場您剛所提到的擴增土資場的部分我們經協調交通部在台北港台中港以及高雄港的部分那目前的量大概是一億五千萬方但是現在可以用的量大概是三千萬方到四千萬方可用那有關公共工程的土資的部分其實沒有問題但是按照原來的步驟去走就可以了"},{"start":11561.045,"end":11586.946,"text":"再來就是簡化還有要求要加裝GPS因為如果沒有加裝GPS因為包括新竹縣市政府還有台北市政府要求他們可以跨域去清運這些土資那如果你沒有GPS的話可能就是會變成亂道會變成是環保的大問題因為後續的處理會更糟糕那我們現在就是想辦法把不合法的這個土資的管道把它堵住這是一點所以也非常謝謝委員的支持"},{"start":11587.526,"end":11613.211,"text":"那現在GPS的量我們採取雙軌制一個就是如果你在內政部已經有申請GPS的話那當然沒問題現在已經達到5000輛那還有以前因為配合環境部在處理有關GPS他那個地方比較沒有這個實質上的部分可是我們覺得可以雙軌那這個縣市政府也願意來支持而且要求如果在雙軌上面有一些時間差的話那縣市政府在處理這個集合他們願意幫忙那這一點大概"},{"start":11615.812,"end":11627.885,"text":"包括新竹縣市政府在內的七個縣市政府都同意用這樣的方向來處理這一個那再來就是簡化行政流程所謂的簡化行政流程的部分就是說如果你要加裝GPS的話我們會在兩天內只要你申請大概就會通過還有一個我們把這個砂石車啊"},{"start":11634.873,"end":11648.408,"text":"這個不是只有這個現在的砂石車包括你一般的這個8.8噸到3.5噸以上的車子他如果願意來清運土石的話我們也會讓他來處理那這一點我們跟交通部還有監理所已經談妥"},{"start":11649.269,"end":11666.488,"text":"所以事實上在一個禮拜的時間內我們把這個北台灣去化量比較不足的狀況已經做了部分的處理那再來就是執行面的部分那執行面的部分的話縣市地方政府的包括他們都發或是公務等等這些他們在配合程度上都有提到就希望說業者"},{"start":11667.449,"end":11685.128,"text":"不要因為GPS是不是可以緩緩的部分請他們不要觀望因為如果一觀望的話就會造成更大的塞車因為會造成更大的環保問題那以上相關的部分如果您對新竹市政府或是新竹縣政府所需要的土資量需要多少的話我們會後再查給委員來做參考"},{"start":11686.59,"end":11710.849,"text":"OK 謝謝部長因為我在想這個問題確實是目前整個業界碰到的問題那我也給你很完整的部分去做說明你剛提到說我們目前盤整出來有3000到4000萬立方米可以用那我想說你之後再給我更詳細的一個資料然後在有關於GPS的部分我要特別提醒一個狀態AB車的問題請務必要特別去處理剛講的就是AB車A到B到C這三點的部分都已經處理了"},{"start":11711.489,"end":11722.035,"text":"A到B到C不是這個狀態我想說就是你用合法的牌照的時候可是你用非法的部分去處理這個部分請務必要同時去處理交通部我們會跟他們一起來協調OK 好 謝謝謝謝曾振琴委員的質詢接下來我們請王紅委員發言"},{"start":11735.779,"end":11746.903,"text":"好謝謝主席請我們的代理署長郭圖書代理署長跟我們劉部長請代理署長朱慶倫以及我們的劉部長還有部長好部長和代理署長我接續剛才鄭振淺委員的這個題目"},{"start":11762.079,"end":11771.084,"text":"我們都知道最近有所謂的一個是土方之亂一個就是房屋租金因為一腳被追回之亂但是你可以看到我們的民眾現在可以說是連滾帶爬"},{"start":11779.548,"end":11783.593,"text":"但是我們的國土署署長原署長現在是匆匆容容的要去就任新職我覺得看在民眾的眼中這些這麼多亂象然後為這些亂象所困擾的民眾再看在他們的眼裡真的是何其的離譜還有真的非常諷刺"},{"start":11800.111,"end":11802.674,"text":"好 我們來看土方之亂剛才部長的回答我特別把它仔細聽了一下以現在的土方之亂不是只有南部我們昨天媒體大幅的報導大概都是集中在高雄"},{"start":11815.672,"end":11837.837,"text":"但是事實上在我們的北部大概包含很多處的工地這裡面包含國營事業這裡面包含民間的建商的案量還有甚至像學校各處的工地因為土方之亂到目前為止很多都還在停工中停工已經超過半個月之久"},{"start":11840.638,"end":11847.484,"text":"所以第一個你們所提出來這些所謂的解方到目前為止並沒有解決土方之亂第二個我們很擔心的這就是現在很擔心因為有一些他們在挖這個連續幣已經到四成樓或五成樓如果他們繼續處於停工狀態"},{"start":11861.135,"end":11878.524,"text":"非常有可能發生公安問題因為他們怕工地會崩塌剛才我看到部長有點頭我相信你也聽到這樣的一個說法所以他們很擔心像這個部分第一個應該優先解決好 比如說有一些建地他們說他們可能剛挖一層樓開始擔心但是已經挖四五層樓的"},{"start":11882.406,"end":11887.127,"text":"很擔心如果還不能動工的話該怎麼辦所以現在是處於一個全面在受害連滾帶爬當中剛才在講就是加裝GPS我們不反對加裝GPS但它有配套的措施那麼現在就是因為欠缺配套措施現在狀況是怎麼樣呢是中間的這些土資廠 土方廠"},{"start":11909.412,"end":11925.757,"text":"他們等於有點像聯合行為 就是拒收嘛我管你來自於哪裡 我通通拒收所以才造成現在很多的工地處於停工狀態大家急得如熱鍋上的螞蟻所以我想請問部長的 因為我也有注意到媒體因為這幾天事實上很多人反映"},{"start":11932.759,"end":11946.124,"text":"所以呢卓院長也說他在1月16號就做了跨部會召集我不曉得那個跨部會召集的結果是不是你剛才所說的這是其一第二因為時間的關係我做兩個具體的建議第一個具體的建議是以我們台北市來說你們即便再增加最終的處置廠沒有可能放在台北市所以這些跨縣市的部分"},{"start":11962.31,"end":11974.176,"text":"真的急需中央來做協調就是跨縣市的部分另外那現在有一些呢鑑定他們是認為說別說他有A鑑定他現在可能挖了四五層但他還有B鑑定或者C鑑定這個時候可能B鑑定CD鑑定還沒有挖"},{"start":11983.8,"end":12012.693,"text":"所以他暫時解決藍莓之急他可不可以把A鑒地的土方先暫置在他B鑒地上面然後他一起來做處置就是說這些土方他還是會做處置但是解決他現在已經挖得蠻深的不要出現公安事件第二個就是你們可不可以輔導或者同意如同公共工程因為有一些公共工程他在他的原來的鑒地他就開始做分類"},{"start":12013.613,"end":12028.566,"text":"他開始做分類 他不用透過中間的這個土製廠他可以直接送到 對 最後的最終土製廠他至少可以解決他極大多數的這個土方的問題那現在有一些民間的這個業者他其實是有能力 他也願意做投資"},{"start":12035.152,"end":12040.034,"text":"他不要經過中間 因為現在就是中間他們集體的拒收嘛他等於說 他在這個鑑定裡面他直接 他先做處置 做分類然後這個是 比如說台北港可以接收的因為台北港也不是什麼亂七八糟 他都收啊他要你處理過後 他才收那他就可以直接運到台北港去那麼就解決至少已分類的這些土方好 所以我剛才是做了一些具體的建議"},{"start":12064.122,"end":12086.908,"text":"所以現在就請部長來回答1月16號請問你們到底做成什麼樣的結果那麼今天下午你們又可以做什麼具體保證來解決土方之亂報告委員您剛講的這個三個方法都是我們現在在精進的措施那相關的這個部分等一下代署長會跟您回應但是我跟委員報告就是除了行政院有召開跨部會的會議之外"},{"start":12089.048,"end":12118.336,"text":"那內政部已經先針對六都跟新竹縣市政府就是出土量比較多建案比較多的已經達成了協議那這裡面包括您剛所提到的戰治區怎麼樣做定義還有就是說如果要送到原來只有收公共工程的量的這個台北港是不是可以收這個所謂的民間的興辦的部分那在台北港的地方呢有沒有可能整理出一個戰治區這些都是可行的方案那我請署長目前台北港是朝這個方向嗎"},{"start":12119.356,"end":12145.345,"text":"目前院裡面 院裡面那個李顧問他已經協商大概會有將近14公頃的這個土地可以提供雙北來做站制14公頃對14公頃目前是還在等這個兩個市政府做最後的答覆一週內是所以你們可能一週內都還是有點晚喔你們可不可以再我照不照的還是要加緊啊因為他們挖四五層樓的他們很怕很怕攤掉啊"},{"start":12146.385,"end":12160.41,"text":"那目前 報告委員那目前已經開挖施工中的這些工地沒有錯 挖到一半的部分目前我們是有這個配合行政院的這個決策我們現在在做這個臨時站制那臨時站制今天下午會開會跟大家討論所以今天下午會出入臨時站制的規定對 是因為這時間外我覺得這個問題真的一定要解決"},{"start":12169.113,"end":12182.044,"text":"因為再摘下去我們擔心有公安問題我們甚至也擔心到時候可能有些金融的問題那另外一個就是大家很關心的我剛才說就是這個租金補貼回收之亂那這個部分"},{"start":12185.106,"end":12214.241,"text":"我知道剛才有一些委員有特別問到那你們說要跟由縣市政府就是合成縣市政府來加強就是來處理可是因為現在發生很多事情譬如說你說租屋者他有沒有因此就是在這過程裡面他持有房子他不管是用購買的或者有的是用繼承的他會去登記那或者是說他的家庭成員他也持有房屋老師說你在台北租屋的"},{"start":12214.901,"end":12226.688,"text":"你在南投 你在雲林有房子他如何跨縣市去做集合所以這個部分沒有辦法你去折騰縣市這個還是要中央來做統籌啊不然的話真的就會發生這個大家哀鴻遍野說現在要領年終獎金了結果年終獎金還不夠去補回你這個房屋租金補貼啊"},{"start":12241.793,"end":12256.741,"text":"因為這個是申請人資格的一個變動那坦白講包括像他這些有因為是不管是受證啊或者說繼承啊甚至說是婚後配合他所原來所有的房屋這種東西的確沒有錯這個是因為他的事情條件變了"},{"start":12257.737,"end":12284.647,"text":"那它是一條間變我的意思是說它在它變南投出現有房子或者雲林出現有房子我台北怎麼會知道所以才會出現說後來再去跟人家追腳啊才會引起這樣的一個問題啊因為 抱歉抱歉因為委員我們現在是因為總歸戶的關係所以才會掌握到這些資訊那說掌握到這些資訊以後我們按規定因為過去審計部也要求我們針對這部分要來查我知道你是按照這些相關規定但是這對於租屋者很大的困擾嘛"},{"start":12285.467,"end":12300.906,"text":"第一個說家庭成員去有房子我都不曉得啊第一個家庭成員他有房子他也不一定要跟他報告第二個你們還有這個是說這個房子他符不符合資格他是不是符合這個自用住宅等等之類"},{"start":12301.827,"end":12315.833,"text":"一般去租房子的不會去問那麼多啦不會去問那麼多去問房東你這個是不是自用住宅你這個是不是這個不能不能報自用住宅不可能所以才會出現今年這麼混亂的一個現象所以在這個部分第一個拜託你們你們現在說要用分期嘛就是減輕減輕這些回繳的他的"},{"start":12326.537,"end":12328.46,"text":"壓力 負擔但是第二個我剛才講你們全部交給縣市就會出現像這次的這樣的一個這個租金補貼回補之亂那以前怎麼不會發生對不對"},{"start":12342.606,"end":12362.335,"text":"過去其實也有啦不過我們會跟地方政府共同來處理加強教育訓練就是你們應該去想一想去檢討一下是不是還是只是去責成縣市政府縣市政府你們比較輕鬆但是我覺得反而會製造問題好不好好好 謝謝好 謝謝王文威委員的質詢現在我們請黃建豪委員發言"},{"start":12376.721,"end":12405.4,"text":"好謝謝主席那我們一樣請內政部劉部長然後還有我們國土署的朱署長朱大力署長請一下劉部長還有大力署長部長早署長早這個今天還是一樣針對土方的問題剛剛幾位都是北部的委員那我們今天特別討論中部的部分可以看一下這是你們上禮拜記者會提供的數字就是說其實在台中市台北市新北市部分台中市確實出土量是全國第二"},{"start":12405.885,"end":12422.774,"text":"但是我們在直接利用之後真正要送土質廠的量只有212萬的這個左右數字這個處理的比例其實蠻多的只剩三分之一需要處理掉但是如果依據你們上禮拜一樣是你們公布的這個地方要擴增最終去處的話你們看那個數字啊"},{"start":12424.339,"end":12442.414,"text":"剛剛部長提到說不管中長期規劃還有這個短期規劃裡面中長期規劃是1億多的立方米這1億多的數字那如果現階段你們上禮拜公布給我們的數字是台北港可以收3000萬那高雄呢收容中可以收700萬那台中的最終去化最終儲置廠"},{"start":12443.815,"end":12468.308,"text":"要到115年底會有200萬台中104萬彰化但這個數字是幾點年底才會發生的事情但此時此刻到今天已經19號嘛因為你們16號那天早上你們有開跨院的會議跨部的會議那我記得我們16號下午的時候我跟我們這個署長也有一個協調會嘛有台中一些業者跟廠商來反映他們的想法跟意見那從那天到現在為止其實最核心的問題是台中"},{"start":12469.451,"end":12487.664,"text":"因為做內政部的立場你們全國的量是夠的但是你看台中要到115年底這個量才會出來喔所以我們今天要這邊想要解決問題是說那請問一下115年今天1月19號我到今天上午我也跟這些台中的10家土地廠來確認說今天能不能出他們今天還是不能出"},{"start":12488.157,"end":12506.85,"text":"所以已經19天了如果再一個禮拜用20天那再一個月左右要過年所以很多的這所謂的建案他們現在土房沒有去處所以所謂的B今天你們有ABC嘛B是土質廠的部分可是土質廠因為它沒有C點它沒有地方去化導致它B點它不能收所以大家現在卡在這邊"},{"start":12507.791,"end":12536.761,"text":"所以今天內政部要給大家一個答案以中部地區來講的話我的C到底要去哪裡我怎麼處理我可不可以送到北部我可不可以送到南部有沒有開放這件事情這個是會請內政部請國土署給大家一個明確答案到底C要怎麼處理台中中部地區的C要怎麼處理是好 報告委員那有關C的這個部分我們目前來講當然第一個就是我們現在原來台中市的這個處理房子從A到C的這部分我們這個"},{"start":12538.388,"end":12563.977,"text":"現在是簡化流程嘛 這個部分也可以來處理在今天的下午會議也會跟台中市政府來說明這個 這個 來 署長我會打斷你一下早上我也問了這件事情A到C的部分還是以前的網利還是會送到土質廠就A到C的部分有時候會送到土質廠有價料送到C吧 那B要處分可是因為今天你沒有C的時候中間這段它的有價它沒辦法分離出來它分離出來它沒地方放啊"},{"start":12565.236,"end":12587.541,"text":"我要出土 我這個建案 我這個場地我要出土 我出來了這個土土壤優秀 很好 有辦法再利用所以我本來有所謂的C去處是可以再利用但是這一坨 這個土方裡面一定有部分需要被堆置 被掩埋它需要經過這個B的處理但是因為今天你沒有最終去化的這個場地所以它出來這一堆東西裡面"},{"start":12588.081,"end":12608.14,"text":"他有些要進到B去再利用的部分他的B沒有地方 他也不能收嘛因為B他拿不到所謂的最終處這個最終處置這個場地的空間他拿不到照他就不能發給A那所以你說你A到C可以簡化是以後可以把這個所謂中間流程去去化掉嗎直接有價的直接處理直接賣掉就好了嗎然後B沒關係這樣是嗎"},{"start":12611.144,"end":12618.238,"text":"我們現在是A到C的部分是沒有錯就是沒有辦法處理還要再分類的才會直接到C"},{"start":12619.52,"end":12642.832,"text":"那當然這個B的部分當然是也經過這個分類處理 篩分那因為台中的土質大部分都屬於軟硬石層那其實它很多是有加料有加料的部分當然有一些都可以直接A到C那另外剛剛講那個最終去處我還是要報告一下那目前來講台中港剛委員所催旬了那我們院裡面也跟港公司積極協調現在目前來講115年就近年底"},{"start":12643.673,"end":12667.111,"text":"這個比較多的143萬房子部分可以來處理短期的之間我們是用這個戰事場戰事場的部分這個港務公司他也提供這個五公頃的土地但是這部分台中市政府必須要跟港務公司兩個來共同來談怎麼樣去收 怎麼樣收費然後怎麼樣去做後續的這個處理這個上次在副院長的會議也有談到這個事情組長稍等 部長部長我想問你一下 部長"},{"start":12668.137,"end":12686,"text":"你聽一下你們署長剛剛講的當然一切都很合法 都很合理但是我還是沒回答到我的核心問題就是說今天你們公佈的這個政策大家都支持包含GPS 帳篷S 其他會有所謂雙軌並行這大家都支持 沒問題但今天最核心的問題是因為我沒有C我沒有最終去處置的地方"},{"start":12686.801,"end":12704.641,"text":"台北港有三千萬 高雄有七百萬台中不管你是要暫置還是要最終處分就是那個兩三百萬的數字看起來是有這數字沒錯但是因為此時此刻是沒有的那沒有的時候你們提出這個政策的時候你們沒有辦法把中部的這些土方找到去處啊"},{"start":12705.302,"end":12719.598,"text":"那這個東西要怎麼處理此時此刻要怎麼辦呢報告委員是這樣子我想台中市政府非常明白我們現在的一個運送的機制包括A到C我們也支持台中市政府可以用直接交換這個你大概了解"},{"start":12720.219,"end":12735.304,"text":"那在中部地區當然目前如果比較急的狀況之下他要運送到台北港那我們願意協助那再來一個就是說在中部地區的其他經濟部所屬的工業區那現在經濟部也正在盤點當中譬如說張濱工業區這些部分"},{"start":12737.845,"end":12765.968,"text":"所以我們今天下午呢會再針對非六都的部分再請教一下就是整體出土量比較少的地區他們在處理這個土石方的運送機制上面有什麼困難我們一起來解決那還有一個剛那個很多委員在問的就是說如果現在工地已經開挖是不是有這個公安的問題的話這個部分呢公共工程比較沒有太大困難那私人的民間的方向的話呢我們會提供在"},{"start":12767.03,"end":12770.964,"text":"都市計畫我請署長跟您回應一下"},{"start":12772.58,"end":12798.075,"text":"我們在都市計畫區裡面會來盤點現在就是就土地使用管制上因為只要如果在地方自治條例或定相關的規定就可以來處理排除這個目前土地使用管制的一些問題這個目前在行政院都有來協調但是要縣市政府能夠提出他的自治規定或是自治管理這樣子我們才會知道如何去這個歸管所有的這些土石方的去處不要造成環保問題或公安問題"},{"start":12798.635,"end":12819.37,"text":"部長你講的都是就是中長期的問題啦我今天講的是說像你們剛剛提到說經濟部有些地方可以使用包含說漳濱工業區甚至上禮拜的協調會面提到說我們有一個工業區的北方北部有一塊地它可以使用但是這個土地的使用權土地的所有者都是中央部會包含說經濟部包含各單位"},{"start":12820.251,"end":12842.842,"text":"所以這部分我也希望說內政部因為你們訂了這樣子的規定出來是由內政部來幫忙協調說這個地方能不能暫時的堆置先解燃煤池因為就是我講的嘛因為你們給台中的方案是到115年底一定要在同樣的都市計畫區剛剛有提到所以我說讓地方政府來處理有關這個自治規定的時候讓我們知道不能造成環保或者是其他的公安問題的話我們會來協助"},{"start":12844.403,"end":12861.612,"text":"好那下午就等你們的方案好不好我們希望你們幫我們要找到對方的地方至少這一年可以嗎OK好謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員的質詢接下來我們請高金素美委員發言謝謝趙偉有請園民會主委請曾主委"},{"start":12875.393,"end":12901.001,"text":"曾主委其實本席在這邊質詢您一直以來都是用非常溫暖的口氣在質詢您可是您就任到現在我發現本席辦公室跟您辦公室跟園民會的互動越來越差要的資料你們越來越不給然後時間還很長我希望今天主委在這邊答應我"},{"start":12902.722,"end":12910.902,"text":"也公開的跟我的辦公室說希望未來我要的資料我們的互動不要像錢"},{"start":12913.271,"end":12940.224,"text":"您就任之後這麼糟糕 可以嗎可以 我想這個一定會要求來我不知道裡面到底是出了什麼狀況我曾經非常善意的提醒我希望主委你能夠撤換一些失職的幕僚可是到目前為止你還繼續使用這些錯誤的幕僚做錯誤的判斷而這位錯誤的幕僚其實各個地方的原住民的族人都知道他是誰"},{"start":12941.184,"end":12950.94,"text":"我希望今天質詢完畢了之後主委回去能夠請他收斂好好做好他幕僚的工作而不是私底下的主委"},{"start":12951.633,"end":12971.183,"text":"好嗎好我們會特別要求修正好我要幾個問題就問您第一個身份法之亂最近身份法之亂當初修法也是你們園民會自己提的而這部法在111年就修好了當時給你們三年的緩衝是可以準備的"},{"start":12972.023,"end":12986.672,"text":"然後這三年中好好的跟族人說明你怎麼樣要做什麼樣的事情就不會喪失你原住民的身分可是現在已經快到了我們的族人陷入非常恐懼並且在慌張中度過"},{"start":12989.494,"end":12992.697,"text":"我們可以看一些數據一直到1月5號新北、桃園、花蓮仍然有超過600個人還沒有更正所以整體來說還有4440人面臨要喪失他原住民的身份的風險"},{"start":13011.391,"end":13015.799,"text":"主委三年的準備期怎麼會搞到最後一刻好像是連滾帶爬的你可以簡單說明一下為什麼"},{"start":13020.933,"end":13043.411,"text":"好 謝謝委員我想這個能夠就是說自己的族名還有就是這個轉變成原住民的身分除了就是說個人又有很強烈的這個這個欲望之外那想我們也都有通知掌握我們有掌握好這4000多個人我們已經通知了生年了耶那還通知不好然後還沒有辦法辦完"},{"start":13046.072,"end":13064.619,"text":"主委你們不要在這邊撇清整人我在這裡有三件事情要你們趕快做第一件立刻規劃用書面逐一通知真正的當事人然後讓我們真正要申請的族人盡快辦理"},{"start":13065.859,"end":13087.58,"text":"而不用申請的 我們的族人他可以安心第二個 立即跟護證師橫向整出 訂出雙軌的宣導機制第三 2月5號 之前2月5號快到了 今天已經是1月幾號了所以你們大概還有不到半個月的時間"},{"start":13088.641,"end":13105.202,"text":"我希望你們每一週能夠到我的國會辦公室裡面來做說明報告最新的進度還有它的完成率因為你們既然沒有辦法自己去完成三年當中沒有辦法完成那就讓我的辦公室來督促你們"},{"start":13106.015,"end":13123.605,"text":"好不好好這個這剛剛委員要求這三項我們即刻就OK好最後我要講的是2月5號族人如果沒有完成他的這個處理的這個身份他會不會喪失原住民的身份如果會的話誰來負責他暫時會會喪失那"},{"start":13129.09,"end":13147.869,"text":"可以即刻再來所以你的意思是說2月5號以後族人沒有辦理的他以後還是還可以辦理可以是這樣的意思嗎還是可以沒有影響他日後的生計你要確定喔不然我們的族人以後去申辦的時候不能的話那這個責任你要負責第二個禁法補償的問題"},{"start":13152.353,"end":13162.315,"text":"金髮補償 主委你知道嗎現在是影響我們的族人中低收入戶的資格喔你知不知道非常嚴重知道嗎 主委"},{"start":13163.666,"end":13171.789,"text":"我知道這個我們在12月中旬的時候也有特別就是跨部會來看這個問題怎麼解決所以你們也要解決要要好我在這邊提醒你禁法補償的本質是因為國家禁止了我們的族人利用他的保留地原保地然後讓本來有經濟價值的土地他被剝奪了所以呢必須要用補償兩個字補償來彌補"},{"start":13192.415,"end":13212.534,"text":"可是目前這個補償金的金額也僅僅只能夠填補族人土地被政府不當限制的部分損失而已喔雖然從3萬塊提高到6萬塊但是不是很多人的族人他的土地面積很大喔可是你們知道嗎你們跟衛福部說這筆錢是因為維護國土保安他要算收入"},{"start":13216.357,"end":13244.605,"text":"所以現在我們的衛福部就把我們這個金髮補償的補償金他納入我們族人的所得認定所以影響到了我們的族人的中低收入的資格主委要解決吧我知道這個很嚴重那我們也會跟這個豪務部還有衛福部還有財政部相關部會我們在12月17號就有召開第一次希望我們來我們會很嚴肅的共同來檢討這個問題"},{"start":13246.209,"end":13262.819,"text":"好其實呢本席呢在這個禮拜就要召開一個協調會了我請園民會你務必要站在族人的立場不要扭曲為一般收入金髮補償不是一般收入它是政策"},{"start":13263.579,"end":13283.38,"text":"因為讓原住民的土地不能使用所以它是補償補償是不可以變成收入的知道嗎好 希望你們記得如果你們不站在主任的立場我希望主委你們要有人負責這件事情我們會站在主任的立場好 謝謝第三個我就是要講的是就業貸金還有中發基金的"},{"start":13285.922,"end":13299.426,"text":"我們的就業代就是督促我們的廠商要僱用原住民對嗎然後他不僱用的話他就易注錢進入到我們的專款那我們看一下這個數字113年722件你們只處理了22件啊連一成都不到短收了多少2.5億然後我再跟你說111年到113年整個加起來也只半了一半"},{"start":13315.546,"end":13330.594,"text":"短收5.4億 主委5.4億很大筆的錢數目對不對 主委對5.4億對園民會對族人來講是很大的一筆收入我要講的是因為你們的不作為短收了5.4億族人的就業權益受損"},{"start":13333.786,"end":13357.551,"text":"我在這邊要非常的嚴肅的說不知道你們在圖利廠商還是你們在欺負我們自己的族人呢主委請您回答一下什麼時候把短收的5.4億給收回來委員可以讓我說明一下那跟委員報告一下這個5億多絕對不會是短收只是說現在就是因為我們帶進的人手不足但是我們今年的部分"},{"start":13358.052,"end":13369.818,"text":"我們的那個法務有增加一名但是我們今年也換了一個新的廠商我要糾正你不是短收那是什麼這個本來就是要應該沒有用在原住民的身上你要給他罰款啊你要收回來啊你沒有收回來啊會會收回來會對啊你什麼時候收回來請問所以我們現在就是一直在趕111跟112年的部分那我們這個部分因為都還是在5年之內的那個"},{"start":13386.021,"end":13390.165,"text":"那個收款的那個範圍之內所以這個一定會收回來不會轉收現在是114 我們的人力會加強114年了 你還告訴我你要收回111跟112 113 114呢對 我們現在已經有在努力了什麼時候 努力多久了呀113年722件 你們只處理了22件 主委"},{"start":13413.117,"end":13435.564,"text":"你是不是要趕快要做趕快告訴我什麼時候收回我們會在今年的時候再加強加強如果今年沒有全部收回怎麼辦誰要負責任報告委員會努力因為這個還要去做一個調查不接受 主委請他不要說話 您說我給你看數據113年722件只處理了22件連一成都不到然後你們這個"},{"start":13442.782,"end":13458.711,"text":"早就清楚知道要增加人力 對吧你們都一直不增加人力一直到現在5.4億都沒有收回來然後你們現在還告訴我說你們要努力我不接受 我的族人也不接受告訴我什麼時候收回我想這個短期內這一兩年內我們會很用力的來主委我不要你這個回答 我不接受了"},{"start":13471.392,"end":13477.515,"text":"113年722件 只處理了22件 連一層都不到111年到113年 加總只辦了一半所以 請你告訴我時間我不要接受盡全力 請你告訴我時間"},{"start":13493.49,"end":13517.455,"text":"好那我也就是從現在開始算我希望說我們在一年內好這也是一個答案我不要盡全力我要的是一年內把這個5.4億的就業貸金給我收回來如果沒有辦法收回來的話你們要負政治責任好嗎好接著我要跟您說的是我們的中發基金中發基金我們要做些什麼事 諸位"},{"start":13527.643,"end":13551.878,"text":"很多這個 我在上面給你看金融的業務等等中發基金對我們援助民族的權益來說很重要對吧 處長你要不要幫主委說話一下我們中發基金要做些什麼事中發基金的話就是主要在資金的隆通信用的保證以及等於是那個"},{"start":13552.708,"end":13569.495,"text":"有關對於原住民的溫泉還有一些土地利用限制的一個補償收入去做處理好 在今年你們終於出面承認105到113年的基金累積是短處了68.73億 對嗎而本席非常的負責幫你們提出組決議"},{"start":13579.119,"end":13596.497,"text":"然後這個組決議是要求行政院分三年必須要撥補22.91億元可是我們看到今年行政院只給你們了5億硬生生就少給了18億我的族人聽好 綜合發展基金"},{"start":13597.818,"end":13616.924,"text":"縱使身為一個立法委員提出了組決議行政院還是不在乎原住民的綜合發展基金然後硬生生給少給了18億我要請問一下綜合基金的這個23.4億的缺口你們要怎麼補 主委"},{"start":13620.795,"end":13635.11,"text":"儲蓄互助社是原住民最重要的一個互助社有很多的基金因為這個不足而影響到了族人的權益所以呢你們要怎麼處理"},{"start":13636.423,"end":13657.783,"text":"除序互助社這個業務其實就在佔我們這個中華基金其實超過百分之十很重要的一個業務因為原住民的貸款都是在跟他們在做貸款除序互助社跟原住民有相當很深的關係所以這個業務我們會持續的來給協助那你這個缺口怎麼補"},{"start":13659.042,"end":13666.808,"text":"今年是先補充5億我想我們還仍然要跟主席總書記錄來爭取什麼時候跟他爭取那個會持續就是說在今年度會再跟行政院如果不剝足的話你們是不是會正式跟主任報告"},{"start":13679.738,"end":13689.709,"text":"我們會跟主席總署來拜託他們就說應該就是按照我們當時的這個決議是不是要補足這個金額所以你要跟院長說明"},{"start":13692.561,"end":13717.251,"text":"綜合發展基金很重要請我們的執政黨 民進黨政府不要一方面說很照顧原住民一方面該補足的都不補足然後主決議明明已經定了他還不按照主決議的模式來撥補給我們園民會園民會不准再穿小鞋了好嗎 主委 硬起來好 繼續最後一個問題園文會傳統季影季主語節目"},{"start":13725.852,"end":13742.339,"text":"這個問題我聽說是賴總統很想做世界原住民傳統運動會但是呢我們的總統又不給錢因此呢你們用國家語言整體發展方案原住民族主語節目影音製作的計畫"},{"start":13743.559,"end":13749.222,"text":"然後呢你們把這個要製作強化族語發展跟節目自製能力的錢拿來掛羊頭賣狗肉然後就去辦什麼跟族語毫無相關的運動會這不僅僅是公然亂用經費 更是掏空我們族語的振興啊 主委你怎麼說明我跟委員報告這有關這個族語的這個文化 族語的文化他有含有很多的面向那其實辦"},{"start":13773.878,"end":13778.982,"text":"這個藉這個活動來辦這樣的事情你這個活動叫 你這個計畫名稱叫什麼 請問跨國族語節目直播跨國族語節目直播為什麼你們原民會對外宣傳都是說原住民世界運動會"},{"start":13794.073,"end":13807.2,"text":"滯波跟運動會有什麼關係你知道一旦用運動會這個名稱他就必須要有另外的科目而且只要是運動會對於來參加競技比賽的這些族人尤其是學生他可以作為評量成績"},{"start":13814.483,"end":13827.887,"text":"然後呢你如果是運動會你就得發揮縣政府的力量鄉公所的力量甚至於公部門的力量甚至於你原民會的力量都要來可是你是自播節目啊自播節目啊而且你還自播的六集花了多少錢我跟大家報告8500萬8500萬自播了六集的節目"},{"start":13843.806,"end":13851.981,"text":"然後這六集的節目呢本來這個8500萬留下來是因為王宏威的揭弊"},{"start":13853.069,"end":13867.42,"text":"因為有些要去製播節目的很清楚的給了委外別人引起了很大的風波因此8500萬被保留下來而我們的園民會就用這個8500萬去討好賴清德總統賴清德總統應該要給我們辦運動會的錢不辦然後用這個8500萬去辦然後跟大家報告8500萬裡面有九成外包"},{"start":13882.611,"end":13908.3,"text":"所以我都說 原文會你們是外包能力的單位啊原文會你們有原住民電視台耶你們連直播都不要用自己耶然後你們把所有的錢都拿去委外這個廠商去辦活動辦什麼活動 原住民世界日然後這原住民世界運動會呢辦了非常浮華"},{"start":13909.7,"end":13921.194,"text":"然後政治人物都去謝謝賴總統政治人物都去台上講話唯獨高金樹梅沒去原因我清楚知道這是賴總統想辦的但是卻不給錢這筆錢要強化族語發展提升自治能力 對吧 主委"},{"start":13929.758,"end":13954.606,"text":"好 結果進九層 7500萬全部用在辦活動5500萬發包給廠商然後這些廠商把所有拍過來的東西然後再交給園民會 園文會園民會再去把它剪出來變成六集所謂的應該說是什麼 節目這世界原住民的自播節目"},{"start":13956.206,"end":13983.504,"text":"好厲害喔主委來沒關係我們請那個處長簡單說一下因為這是你的教文處的業務簡單的說明我想在我們核定補助園文會的3億7百萬的主委方案的經費裡面他其實就有一個我知道正式四年計畫蘇貞昌院長在的時候"},{"start":13984.164,"end":13997.732,"text":"合併的 我們都很希望有合併政筆計畫好好用來組織方案 可是沒想到8500萬到最後要被執行的時候被王洪威接筆接出來 因此8500萬被保留了"},{"start":13999.873,"end":14019.981,"text":"在他的整個國語方案原文會所提出來的製作的策略裡面他有一個第七項就是要做跨國族語節目的直播對 跨國族語的直播跟世界原住民運動會有什麼關係我想他的方式是透過運動會的方式來做直播節目的內容那在坊間其實也有很多的這樣的"},{"start":14021.221,"end":14037.066,"text":"那你們原民會應該宣傳的是原住民族族語節目影音製作計畫你們應該是要這樣子宣傳然後你們要這樣做宣傳的時候來的所有的族人是不是應該要有節目的參與費"},{"start":14039.793,"end":14042.275,"text":"因為我是製播節目我是來自於演藝圈啊你讓我來製播你這個節目他不是競技選手欸他是來參與你這個節目欸每一個人來參與的人應該要拿到一些經費吧車馬補助費吧然後一些補貼費吧我是演員我要有應該要有啊我的主任拿到了沒有"},{"start":14060.328,"end":14072.577,"text":"這些各組的選手來參加這個節目還是說運動會的執勤其實他們都有相關的提供車碼 住宿費都是由這個節目的經費來支應好 這個節目經費是給個人還是給縣市政府還是給鄉公所"},{"start":14076.505,"end":14090.642,"text":"其實是由縣市政府來帶轉給我們的各組是園民會給還是園文會給園文會給還是這些外包的廠商在節目的製作節目裡面給是由園文會來指引的好 我也跟你們要了好久的資料我也開了兩次的會議處長 我可以在這邊要求你"},{"start":14094.946,"end":14114.138,"text":"以後你們要做什麼事情就大方的跟族人報告這是節目影音製作計畫這不是世界運動會原住民世界運動會因為您很清楚只要是運動會就有競技對吧有競技就一定會有獎金對吧"},{"start":14114.938,"end":14131.073,"text":"有獎金他一定會有一些獎狀對吧這些獎狀還可以用為孩子的評量的成績可是這次是完全沒有是因為他不是運動會因為呢他是影音製作計畫你們要剪六集"},{"start":14131.934,"end":14141.998,"text":"然後來核銷這個蘇貞昌院長以前核定的四年經費而且很奇怪喔 除了8500萬之外你們園民會還有52名的正式人力資源3到5天然後你們園民會自己又出了46萬多的出差費然後你們的媒體宣傳費花了多少錢我現在跟你要資料 也沒有資料"},{"start":14157.623,"end":14179.927,"text":"然後主任也告訴我說我們的相公所被要求派員參加我們的主委老師被要求要支援現場來幫忙然後主委老師的費用是從哪裡出的是從8500萬出的呢還是教文處你另外就補給這些主委老師呢這些我現在也都沒有拿到資料因為今天時間時間已經沒有那麼多了我可不可以要求園民會主委跟處長"},{"start":14187.369,"end":14210.98,"text":"以後賴總統要辦原住民世界運動會請賴總統跟行政院自己出錢給原民會辦理不要用原民會的公務預算裡面因為我們沒有這個科目也不要用族語的這些錢拿去做包裝做世界原住民運動會讓我們的原住民的族人一頭霧水可以嗎"},{"start":14214.465,"end":14221.387,"text":"可以但是我跟委員講就是說辦世界民主運動會也不是說是特別總統交代或者是院長交代"},{"start":14221.874,"end":14227.138,"text":"因為我們跟這些那誰想做的因為我們跟這些南島語系的國家既然這會是主委你想做的事情我也沒有不同意你做所以麻煩你們直接在你們要送出預算的時候就說每年你要辦這件事情每年要辦這件事情經費怎麼來要有多少錢請你們明白的寫出來不要再這樣子掛羊頭賣狗肉好不好主委好謝謝"},{"start":14256.555,"end":14260.638,"text":"謝謝高晶素梅委員的質詢 接下來我們請徐欣盈委員發言謝謝主席 本席有請劉部長有請部長部長休息了一段時間現在這個再次上場部長"},{"start":14284.71,"end":14310.952,"text":"首先本席要就這個是你們內政部今天的報告沒有錯這個怎麼會篡改我們召委的題目召委今天專題報告的題目是賴清德總統新建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討我們內政部今天給的報告"},{"start":14312.884,"end":14335.436,"text":"上面是写当前新建社会住宅政策之挑战检讨与策进百万户租屋家庭支持计划精进方案好 我看你们这个精进方案这个该检讨不检讨你们的精进方案你们在报告里面写你们这百万怎么来的"},{"start":14336.516,"end":14356.212,"text":"你們應該很清楚真正社會住宅你就12萬戶然後包租代管10萬戶剩下全部都什麼租屋補貼所以這叫做什麼百分之這個百萬的精進方案90%就是發錢靠發錢10%靠蓋房所以第一個"},{"start":14362.287,"end":14389.201,"text":"昭緯我們真的不能不能夠這樣藐視國會昭緯定的題目他們直接改掉直接改掉那第二個就是好啊這個百萬精進方案我們90%靠發錢那現在是不是在你們的百萬戶KPI裡面發了租金補貼你就算是達成了一戶社會住宅的業績你們是不是打算這樣"},{"start":14391.078,"end":14410.161,"text":"是不是回答就可以是或不是报告委员包租贷款也是社会住宅政策的一环而且写在住宅法里面对我知道所以您刚讲的算法是有错误的包租贷款大概10万户对那你们主要靠租金补贴那租金补贴其实你没有这些经济方案"},{"start":14410.962,"end":14438.834,"text":"大概從人類歷史以來開始大概應該有幾十年都有這個租金那你現在就是用一個租金補貼撒錢的方式發錢90%那來創造這個所謂的百萬戶因為這是最穩健的社會住宅而且能夠達到來補助比較經濟弱勢的族群尤其是在六都裡面租屋補貼我們不反對"},{"start":14440.094,"end":14459.146,"text":"而是你們的講法百萬戶這個我們不得不懷疑這個為了今年的選舉做的數字工程這不是真正的居住正義那沒關係你現在這個百萬戶我們接著看你們合訂了你們這個租屋補貼合訂了91萬戶結果只撥款了65萬戶"},{"start":14465.748,"end":14487.953,"text":"那其中還有2.5萬戶是義領然後你們現在開始追殺所以我先就叫部長你這個核定91萬戶結果累計撥款65萬戶請問消失的26萬戶是怎麼回事報告委員他第一個大概是不符合現有的資格或者是說他在資格變動"},{"start":14488.513,"end":14500.76,"text":"不符合資格那你核定91萬戶 這怎麼回事我們的平台有兩個 一個是地方政府 一個是中央政府中央政府在複合的過程當中 我們也來把關剛剛有提到 譬如說他可能是某一個單一政府在這個核定的時候並沒有考慮他有跨縣市的一個房產"},{"start":14511.926,"end":14522.975,"text":"或者是跨縣市的身分別那這個部分呢我們也會做處理也就是說現在租金補貼裡面違規議領的情形都是因為申請人個人條件的變動比較多議領是後面我只是說你核定91萬戶有撥款65萬戶有26萬戶消失我先談這個議領後面我會談這26萬戶怎麼回事就是有人會重複啊"},{"start":14540.475,"end":14562.514,"text":"因為租金補貼我剛有提到如果是單一縣市政府他可能住新竹縣但是他新竹縣跟新竹市兩個都申請重複的去掉還有呢還有什麼情況我是不是請我們組長跟你們回應一下比較多的那報告委員那還有一些譬如像寒暑假那因為他學生他如果學校畢業了他就沒有來申請了"},{"start":14563.924,"end":14572.749,"text":"沒有來申請你核定幹嘛那前面會有核定就在一個年度裡面他會有變動還有就業所以一個是資格一個重複申請還有就是有變動有資格變動就這兩個所以這樣就26萬戶大部分的原因是這樣子我看你們是不是可以把這個相關的你們會後還是要給我一個報告"},{"start":14590.561,"end":14599.578,"text":"好那接著接著部長那剛剛您急著回答的2.5萬戶疫齡那我有看到你們的報告裡有寫"},{"start":14601.023,"end":14622.442,"text":"這個申請人資格還有租屋情況的異動那我在這裡我要問的是這中間有沒有是因為我們政府效能政府的執行力不彰系統勾結太慢所以才會造成有這2.5萬的問題啊這一塊我們行政單位有沒有可以再加強的地方"},{"start":14623.142,"end":14645.135,"text":"當然我剛有特別跟委員報告過因為在租補的這個申請條件當中我們都是授權給地方政府那地方政府跟中央政府之間的勾結當然就會出現時間差授權地方政府應該是今年度接下來之前應該都中央吧沒有已經地方在開始了對已經地方協助了所以才會跳增這麼快"},{"start":14649.197,"end":14663.928,"text":"那這第一個就是說行政的效能跟行政的執行力我們希望再加強這個我們來檢討對第二個本心要為這一些義領追角的人我們可能也要替他們來說一下"},{"start":14665.069,"end":14679.649,"text":"他除非他是惡意的詐領否則如果有一些經濟弱勢戶因為你們說的這些理由你要去追繳本來就應該但是是不是可以"},{"start":14680.149,"end":14702.279,"text":"有給他分期還款是 我們已經你們有在進行對 或者是但是報告委員但是如果他是乍領的話恐怕就不合乍領就不行對 乍領的我們絕對不行那有一些因為就像你們說的申請人資格或是有一些租屋情況的異動因為一個月假設我們有4000到6000不等"},{"start":14703.699,"end":14723.79,"text":"4000一年就是假設他這個義領一年就將近五萬塊對一般人來說有的時候五萬塊對他來說可能也是一筆負擔臨時要他拿出來一筆他可能難所以分期還款或者是社福轉介免責的這種機制有沒有"},{"start":14724.489,"end":14739.974,"text":"這些我們都會跟地方政府來勾結那剛委員所關心的部分那個署長有提到如果真的有經濟上的困難的話分12期我們也可以介紹對 給他們分期 對12期好 OK好 那再來再來我們看到這個"},{"start":14741.815,"end":14757.204,"text":"有關我們社會住宅我們看到報告第二頁說未來的新辦重點在北北桃中北北桃中 那很明顯是在直轄市那我們想要了解那請問基隆跟竹竹苗為什麼"},{"start":14758.825,"end":14777.2,"text":"我想這個是從租金補貼裡面所申請的這個數目還有我們看它的人口結構的部分所以你們的新辦重點不是社會住宅興建的重點原先在蔡總統時代已經興建十幾萬戶那是全台灣各地都有我想您也知道"},{"start":14778.001,"end":14804.847,"text":"那現在呢我們在要繼續精進的方案的時候我們認為啊有這個需求的會集中在北北桃中那這是從租金補貼裡面得到說為什麼他要申請租金補貼未來在社會住宅包括包租代管的話是以這個為主再加上這四個這四個縣市這四個直轄市政府他們的土地最稀缺也最是淡亡區也就是大部分的人最需要的"},{"start":14805.307,"end":14822.862,"text":"那既然有大部分人最稀求的這個部分的話呢我們就必須要跟這個四個市政府來一起來討論那同時呢我們也了解包括桃園或者是新北市政府的首長他們也都了解這個部分所以我們常常會漏掉一個我們採取的是多元興辦社會住宅"},{"start":14823.502,"end":14840.729,"text":"包括除了樹地以外還有包括都更或者是其他的分回等等這些都會列為我們為未來要取得社會住宅土地或是取得社會住宅的戶數裡面的重要的一個方向而且都會集中在這一大的生活圈為主"},{"start":14842.751,"end":14856.345,"text":"部長你剛剛有講土地稀缺或者是他們的租金比較高之類的不是租金比較高土地真的不容易取得其實新竹縣市也是"},{"start":14858.488,"end":14883.936,"text":"當然新竹縣市它已經被列為大家應該知道竹北市也是這樣所以我們還是希望你們還是要要特別再評估一下以北北桃中為主但是不是表示其他的沒有跟委員報告以竹那其他有那你那個是怎麼分現在我們仍然在持續盤點就是說比較重要的對我就知道你會說盤點但是呢"},{"start":14886.741,"end":14915.992,"text":"真的不要忽略基隆跟新竹縣市这些都也是非常都会区的他们的需求还有这些通勤族他们的压力所以我们也要特别争取基隆竹竹新竹縣市特别是您说的淡黄区其实你去看全台的淡黄区绝对有新竹县的竹北市我们要请部长还是要再重视好谢谢"},{"start":14920.242,"end":14939.65,"text":"謝謝徐姓委員的質詢接下來請黃國昌委員黃國昌委員黃國昌委員不在現在請羅廷偉委員發言有請國土署署長還有部長謝謝請劉部長還有國土署代理署長"},{"start":14953.317,"end":14954.758,"text":"還有部長 謝謝好 部長還有署長我想土方之亂大家網路不斷地在報導"},{"start":14966.092,"end":14987.692,"text":"我會關心最主要是因為我們在地方爭取了自來水管線的工程汰換前陣子停工到後面現在已經有知名的企業出來喊話土方之亂有可能造成美瓶再貴五萬元最後受害的是所有的"},{"start":14988.325,"end":15004.219,"text":"我們這些年輕家庭也好買房的人也好這讓我們非常擔憂啊如果這樣子的一個狀況不加以改善而且是超緊急改善不是中長期這些所謂的成本都會轉嫁到消費者"},{"start":15005.236,"end":15031.719,"text":"我們剛剛也聽到其他的委員在關心我們現在不管是最終處置也就是西以及我們現在看到台中所提出的替代方案也就是台中的這個台中港那這個部分的大概有提出了部分來做站置那剛剛部長你有提到如果要運到台北台北港那邊來做處理是可以接受的是嗎"},{"start":15034.022,"end":15058.858,"text":"海運的部分喔那可是這些人就問一句話當他運到台北的時候海運的部分這中間的運費一定會有一些多的成本出來請問中央會補助嗎如果是公共工程的話那很抱歉我跟委員報告我們要一個概念我們現在在處理這個部分是為了以前不合法的"},{"start":15060.554,"end":15074.76,"text":"處置方向那我們現在要把它拉正回來要怎麼樣合法的處置方向所以有業者提到說要增加那以前如果他們亂堆亂置的時候後續的環境保護所花費的恐怕是十倍百倍不止"},{"start":15075.1,"end":15092.939,"text":"所以我覺得他們應該了解這個狀況署長我在跟你在江副院長開會的時候當時你有提到台中其實早在110年就有做GPS而且在當時這樣的政策之下台中的處理狀況是相對比較好的對吧"},{"start":15094.102,"end":15110.269,"text":"是 對吧 報告委員我們目前的話就是台中跟我們就是雙軌並行我們現在是講GPS我知道 雙軌並行你先回應我嘛台中是不是早在110年就已經有做GPS相對應的做追蹤所以台中的這個部分是不是做得比較好嘛"},{"start":15111.377,"end":15140.992,"text":"報告委員但是台中只處理到BC的部分他沒有處理你剛剛就說是了然後現在又轉口那C的部分也是因為你處理的量能不夠你增加C我沒有問題我跟你講今天我們都支持你的方案不管你雙軌制或者是你要怎麼處理都沒有關係但今天我也不是在幫這些運到台北的業者講話我是怕他所有的成本轉嫁到最後消費者那這個部分難道"},{"start":15141.874,"end":15168.476,"text":"你不承擔業者也不承擔最後是誰承擔我們全民都知道全民承擔所以今天我不是要你硬著頭皮掏錢給他們而是台中的配套超短期的一個救濟是不是應該先出來所以他們有說是不是暫緩三個月暫緩六個月有的人覺得兩個月都不可能等 為什麼"},{"start":15169.246,"end":15196.483,"text":"因為你自己也知道現在已經開挖到一半這些地下室如果經過一場大雨造成整個內部崩落旁邊林房的損失我再問一句可以申請國賠嗎他因為你的政策停工所以大雨來了眼巴巴的看著他就是內部剝落那請問林房倒塌算"},{"start":15198.264,"end":15226.696,"text":"這個企業的還是算你的報告委員這個我知道我們公安的意外的部分我們也非常非常的重視所以在我們今天下午跟各地方政府開會我希望你們好好討論因為你一直在講今年能夠提供對不起不是今年年底我們只要從現在開始一場大雨就好就會造成挖到一半的地下室導致公安危機請問一下這可以用年來算嗎"},{"start":15228.567,"end":15250.043,"text":"所以我們還是呼籲今天你們下午的會議超短期的配套不管是要做一個暫緩也好不管是要做一個臨時的暫制也好你們都應該要提出來而且當天會議我們有一直在追如果他自己還有其他的土地自己還有其他土地他做暫制可不可以是 我們現在"},{"start":15250.922,"end":15279.825,"text":"就希望透過地方的自治條例或是定地相關規定來處理現在不只是地方自治條例地方自治條例也是說嘛兩個月三個月的時間嘛有沒有其他的配套方式他自己有自己的土地有多的他拿來佔置這個部分你們來做一個控管是 這個只要能夠管理的好我們都可以支持所以你配套出來啊是是是 好不好所以下午我們一起討論 是所以部長剛剛我所提到的我知道你有意願要改善可是絕對不是半年"},{"start":15280.665,"end":15298.926,"text":"絕對不是好幾個月我們也了解就是會有這種臨時要處理的狀況那我也跟委員報告就是說在臨近我們那個在上次開會的時候已經解決跨區運送像譬如說台中的北部是北邊是苗栗或者是南部有其他的地區好像是"},{"start":15299.586,"end":15327.36,"text":"彰化還是哪裡都會有土資廠的餘裕這是一個那另外一個就是說我們會想要解決就是您剛所提到如果他現在有公安問題要處理的話在毗鄰土地上面要在同一區這區位怎麼做確認不會影響到環保跟公安的問題的話我們會透過譬如說台中市政府他的自治規定或者他的自治管理規則把它明定進去的話就可以暫時解決您剛所提到這個困擾"},{"start":15328.166,"end":15357.08,"text":"好 部長我們還是要定調土方的問題不是營造業單獨的問題因為它有可能衍生到公安還有所謂的民眾轉嫁成本最後導致我們現在的住屋又漲價這就是錯誤的政策這個到住屋蓋完之前還有一段距離不過我跟委員報告一定是還有一段時間但我們都知道業者很聰明一定會轉嫁到消費者報告委員"},{"start":15357.58,"end":15375.303,"text":"我們不容許不合法的土資去向這個是大家共識性非常高的所以我們要怎麼樣解決除了中長城計畫大家不反對以外短期的部分我們已經解決跨區要能夠清運這一個然後再來就是毗鄰的土地怎麼做定義"},{"start":15376.164,"end":15390.426,"text":"還有一個就是說我們可不可以擴大就是說他在榮受這個土石方的時候所謂叫公益性譬如說他是市地重劃或者是區段徵收那這個可不可以變成是公益性的收容周榮土石方這個可以討論沒關係"},{"start":15391.448,"end":15413.206,"text":"那所以我剛剛跟委員報告的部分就是說如果大家願意一起解決尤其我們在開會的時候啊這個大部分的縣市政府尤其是很多這個直轄市政府都有表達同樣的意見跟建議那他們也跟我們站在同樣的立場我們不希望業者採取觀望或是緩衝這樣的手段因為這樣子只是把問題往後越堆積越嚴重"},{"start":15414.147,"end":15438.121,"text":"好另外我要跟部長在討論的是今天我們先把話說重一點年輕人就是被民進黨給騙了因為選前講的一套選後做的就是另外一套我想我手機這個影片大家都看過多年前一個大學生在詢問賴清德總統你的社會住宅的政策很難執行他說13萬戶沒有問題甚至還說"},{"start":15441.943,"end":15471.088,"text":"他的政策比蔡英文總統的更有力我想賴清德總統在選舉時對年輕人對社會說得很清楚該要蓋社會住宅今天我們不要再講說住宅法裡面把包租貸款也放在裡面了就很清楚賴清德總統說的今天我們到底是要看賴清德總統說的還是要看住宅法的一個圓融的一個界定那你告訴我要看法 法比較大那立法院所訂定的法你們又不執行"},{"start":15472.355,"end":15486.632,"text":"所以賴清德總統當時一直不斷地講讓年輕人有地方住敢成家敢生孩子現在這不是模糊的承諾這個是很明確的政治承諾但是現在政府現在對外說明"},{"start":15487.912,"end":15504.142,"text":"不再蓋這麼多的社會住宅要改以包租代管我待會來就教大家你們心中自有一把尺租金補貼作為主力並聲稱這也是社會住宅我承認這是社會住宅的一環但這是社會住宅嗎"},{"start":15505.784,"end":15516.931,"text":"講白一點就是要把原本承諾蓋的房子改成用補貼嘛所以你們現在一直強調包租代管也是社會住宅對不起我不能夠接受那我就問一個最基本的問題請部長回應我"},{"start":15522.349,"end":15546.75,"text":"拜託你你說包租代管你說租金補貼就是社會住宅那請問一下我們如果實際蓋了社會住宅他會留下來公共資產政府對於房源有長期的掌握但是包租代管但是租金補貼房子是私人的房東說不租就不租"},{"start":15547.898,"end":15575.268,"text":"那請問一下這兩者的制度上就有本質的差異不能混為一談今天我也遇到我們一直在修法租金補貼一定要給所謂的房東房客更多的機會來作為溝通的橋樑最後所謂的公益出租者能夠租金來做補貼以後部分的稅金能夠減免"},{"start":15576.76,"end":15600.693,"text":"讓房客更容易申請那我想請問一下部長今天如果房客正要租房您是房東啊你直接明確的表達對不起如果你要申請租金補貼我不會我連跟你簽約都還沒簽約只是詢問我可不可以就說那你可能可以找別人那請問這樣子我們可不可以申訴對方"},{"start":15601.803,"end":15604.686,"text":"都完全沒有任何契約產生了那對嘛 講得這麼簡單房子沒有這麼好找 地點就這些地方不是所有人的人都可以領得到租金補貼要有一定的身份 這個不用再救教我們現在都在討論的是租金補貼申請過程遇到的"},{"start":15623.624,"end":15639.728,"text":"一些問題這個我們可以來協助這就是不接地氣嘛我們在第一層第一層遇到的民眾就跟我們反映啊說要申請租金補貼房東直接說掰掰不用聯絡報告委員台中市申請租金補貼的人數是全台灣最多的我們遇到更多的狀況喔不要說沒有遇到我講給大家聽啊房東直接跟他說喔你要申請租金補貼喔讚支持加油"},{"start":15653.264,"end":15678.519,"text":"記得我會漲一些你要給我那請問你要怎麼處理委員檢舉他我當然知道檢舉他檢舉他有罰款我們修法檢舉他有罰款但是問題馬上下一次合約一到他就請他搬家這些問題要不要考量到這些租屋者的困境有沒有被我們給接觸到"},{"start":15679.639,"end":15695.75,"text":"我們有修法我當然知道我們有修法但是這些租屋者的困境並沒有完全被解決所以今天我們為什麼在討論社會住宅的一個重要性因為政府就是房東能夠給予的一些幫助是更實際的"},{"start":15697.111,"end":15716.728,"text":"而你告訴我們租金補貼包租貸款也是社會住宅但是本質上所謂的私人財產我們就沒辦法全面的解讀報告委員您弄錯了我剛所提到的社會住宅就是直接興辦跟包租貸款才是社會住宅租金補貼只是租金補貼反正你們今天就是不斷一直在整個社會住宅政策裡面幫助賴清德在包裝"},{"start":15724.338,"end":15736.309,"text":"所以從今天你們改題目不尊重我們現在所訂定的題目到現在整個社會住宅轉為包租代管跟補貼是一個正確負責任的一個轉彎我覺得"},{"start":15741.651,"end":15760.068,"text":"政府應該要跟年輕人講清楚說明白賴清德總統應該要親自跟所有的年輕人跟租屋者來做道歉更關鍵的是這個轉彎並不是因為政府做不到內政部自己在百萬戶租屋家庭支持計畫"},{"start":15761.676,"end":15780.672,"text":"草案當中早在2025年1月就已經盤點全國260處社會住宅用地面積約265公頃可以興建9.4萬戶的社會住宅並且明確說明持續滾動修正擴大供給但現在同一個政府面對社會大眾卻說土地不足"},{"start":15781.678,"end":15803.408,"text":"社宅蓋在偏遠地區沒有人住我要問一下請問部長這些如果地方沒有人住當初為什麼要盤點這260處的盤點是各縣市各機關然後送給國土署的但是我們必須要做評估所以你是說因為地方政府的評估因為地方政府的盤點導致你們的政策錯誤囉導致當時正在競選總統的賴清德被這些錯誤的資訊給搞混了囉"},{"start":15810.771,"end":15815.757,"text":"從他的嘴巴說出來我認為他應該要有責任這是他的一個政治承諾而且剛剛你有說盤點完以後你們會評估你們評估完了才會對外公佈嘛那當時他的政策小組難道沒有負責任嗎"},{"start":15829.873,"end":15834.316,"text":"還是先喊了再說所以我想請問內政部你可不可以有責任的公布這260處社會住宅用地我沒有說你今天沒有負責任部長今天你們面對的問題你們跟民眾清楚的表達 蓋不出來你負責任"},{"start":15858.434,"end":15877.938,"text":"你負責任但是賴清德總統當時的承諾卻沒有告訴全民他錯了當時還這樣子回應那個大學生他做得到還回應那個大學生他的政策比蔡英文更有力所以我今天我不是譴責內政部啊我是譴責賴清德怎麼會透過內政部來幫你包裝"},{"start":15886.38,"end":15898.833,"text":"政治的語言政治的承諾賴清德應該要出來道歉所以我剛剛在問內政部請問一下剛剛我們說的這200多處社會住宅可以公告嗎"},{"start":15901.768,"end":15921.502,"text":"我們本來就有盤點閒置的房地啊可不可以公布這些所有的用地在哪裡會後可不可以讓我知道一下這份資料沒有問題 但是也要跟委員報告這個必須要跟地方一起來協助才有可能共同推動我們的立場還是一樣 中央跟地方要一起合作而不是互相推諉"},{"start":15922.301,"end":15949.374,"text":"我想具體的位置跟取得方式讓社會來檢視其中究竟有多少屬於市區可及的範圍又有多少原本是透過都市更新甚至是捷運聯合開發等方式取得住宅用地包括委員您的方向非常正確就是我們多元取得社會住宅的用地但我希望讓社會來檢視一下這相關的資料如果政府真的擔心需求不足我會給你時間為什麼不敢公開基地讓需求本身來說話為什麼寧可用推測"},{"start":15951.835,"end":15968.399,"text":"用假設作為整個政策退縮的理由所以我們會持續不同的滾動檢討推出穩健的社會住宅政策這已經不是能力的問題了也不是條件不足的問題而是執政黨的選擇我們民進黨政府選擇不做而這樣的選擇最終承擔這些代價承擔後果的就是全台灣納稅人民"},{"start":15979.335,"end":16000.687,"text":"我們既然賴清德做出的政治承諾已經無法兌現他也沒辦法出來向社會道歉那麼主管機關內政部部長劉部長國土署署長你們就應該為賴清德13萬戶社會住宅政策實際跳票負起政治的責任下台吧"},{"start":16002.779,"end":16018.453,"text":"報告委員 很多直轄市長到目前為止也是一樣8年的直接興辦社宅數也是沒有達到他應該到達的數量那您是在說林佳龍嗎林佳龍真的沒有做到喔是不是公開譴責林佳龍了我要講的是現階段你要是接"},{"start":16026.437,"end":16029.52,"text":"現階段你要直接玩這個文字優勢我沒有做到啊 別人也沒有做到啊這就是現在內政部長的一個態度啊我們的態度是中央跟地方要一起合作 我跟你講我們作為在野黨 我們作為執政"},{"start":16044.575,"end":16056.744,"text":"應該要監督的一個角色對於所有政治的跳票我們都譴責但是竟然從內政部長嘴巴裡面說出來我們做不到別人也做不到啊別人也應該怎麼樣啊這樣子的一個態度我們更是不齒更是應該譴責啊"},{"start":16064.79,"end":16076.059,"text":"中央跟地方本來就應該一起合作但是你剛剛的態度只是想要推卸責任讓全民看到我們現在的執政黨的態度就是這樣作為一個監督的角色我還是公開的再說一次我們都是同一套標準我們都一樣譴責但是現在我看到你就是說我沒有做到別人也沒有做到啊"},{"start":16088.129,"end":16107.585,"text":"抱歉委員我沒有說出來我只有遺憾啦謝謝羅丁委員也謝謝部長OK好我們接下來謝謝羅丁委員的發言接下來我們中午不休息繼續開會接下來請林倩琦委員林倩琦委員不在吳立華委員請吳立華委員發言"},{"start":16123.208,"end":16126.793,"text":"謝謝主席 有請園民會主委請正置位委員好"},{"start":16134.045,"end":16160.103,"text":"今天終於等到園民會的業務報告我也很驚訝就是這麼長的一段時間一直沒有看到園民會來做業務報告那每一次園民會來做業務報告的時候因為機會很難得所以我大概都會找十個議題來質詢那今天也不例外因為時間的關係也希望主委就是簡單的回答好嗎好"},{"start":16162.385,"end":16180.567,"text":"談到原民會我覺得其中有一個很重要的任務功能就是要展現原住民文化的軟實力這也是我們國家的軟實力我們常常聽人家說或自己說原住民的文化有多好多好"},{"start":16181.388,"end":16200.738,"text":"但是我們往往看不到對等的相稱的聲量這個是我們很遺憾的部分所以呢我先就世界原住民族運動會來說你看看這個圖片這個照片都不是我拍的是我call你們園民會的照片這個照片其實好多人看都覺得哇怎麼有這麼棒的運動會請教主委"},{"start":16210.703,"end":16230.599,"text":"世界民族運動會你們辦完了之後有沒有開過檢討會有那檢討會可以給我一份報告嗎會那我跟您說我重整一下我自己的臉書或者是其他的社群軟體我大概聽到的都是第一為什麼總統沒有來請問下一次還會辦嗎"},{"start":16234.605,"end":16250.714,"text":"我們希望這個能夠兩年半一次兩年半一次 那就是116年對那總統會來嗎我們希望總統 我們特別的空總統的時間第二個 我聽到最多的就是說你們的宣傳很不夠"},{"start":16252.168,"end":16267.619,"text":"好多人看到影片照片之後都嚇一跳說怎麼有這麼好的活動我們怎麼都不知道不是只有原住民這麼說連非原住民都這麼說所以請教一下這個宣傳經費多少"},{"start":16270.1,"end":16284.147,"text":"大概是400萬400萬的宣傳經費那為什麼會搞得這麼多人都不知道因為這是第一次辦理所以我們總是有一些就是這個速度上沒有跟上這個部分我想我們會作為日後辦這個活動的檢討"},{"start":16287.489,"end":16310.994,"text":"那我就想知道了可是你剛剛已經有講了你說這個會延續性辦理是說兩年會辦一次是那請教一下會有這個科目嗎像明年要辦的話今年你們有列入科目要做預算了嗎明年度的預算我們會希望能夠把它就是說編列進去經費規模"},{"start":16313.154,"end":16336.895,"text":"大概也就是跟今年的這個世界人民運動會大概是8000到8500萬那請教一下今年大家都說原來這筆經費是從原文會出來但是你們也有原語會甚至你們還有文化發展中心那你們覺得你們這三個單位未來是輪流辦嗎還是由原民會主辦嗎還是怎麼樣"},{"start":16338.547,"end":16358.6,"text":"我跟委員報告這麼大的活動而且是就是說要動用這麼多的人力我想當然是園民會主辦我們不會把這個責任往外推因為辦得好辦得不好最後發包單位啊還是對是園羽會發包園文會發包還是文化中心發包園民會園民會發包然後動用你們所有的人力"},{"start":16366.013,"end":16384.739,"text":"那我是希望說 既然是一個可以展現原住民文化的軟實力它的效益一定是非常大的所以這個部分我真的是很高興為什麼 我跟主委講我其實在五年前我就質詢過了"},{"start":16386.65,"end":16406.707,"text":"但是我沒有想到在114年底竟然能夠成型辦出來然後看到三個月準備這樣的一個規模如果你讓我打分數已經及格了啦但是我們總覺得我們希望會更好 更完整那希望你們把它好好的規劃"},{"start":16407.788,"end":16426.042,"text":"在下一次我們看到的時候希望真的是不是只有讓我們的國人震驚我希望能夠震撼到全世界可以嗎可以好 謝謝那繼續我也要關心其實我在110年的時候3月即將滿5年"},{"start":16427.643,"end":16448.858,"text":"我就有質詢什麼呢我很關心你們文化發展中心有一個國家樂舞團為什麼我這樣子笑來 你注意聽當時是怎麼樣子因為我們的組織文化中心的組織法寫著國家及原住民族樂舞團的設置規劃管理"},{"start":16451.64,"end":16472.212,"text":"然後文化部有一個國立傳譯中心它的組織法也說會有這個聘用戲曲展演專業人員最多187人所以我在這個地方就有點想笑了國立傳譯中心的組織法說是聘用戲曲展演專業人員可是他們卻是法定預算"},{"start":16473.243,"end":16499.698,"text":"然後呢文發中心組織法說是國家及原住民族樂舞團的設置規劃可是你們一直都是用計劃人力勞務採購所以我在110年就有問了那主委說會朝國家樂舞團的目標來推動而且還答應我說我要在一個月內提供我評估報告這個也是你們園民會很嚴重的問題我每次質詢說我要報告報告幾乎沒有拿到過報告"},{"start":16501.119,"end":16529.499,"text":"就不把我們的質詢當一回事所以我想請教一下到底你們有沒有朝這個方向努力好 是不是先請吳化中心好 謝謝好 謝謝委員長期對這個議題的關心那麼這個議題就是我們哪路玩樂舞劇團要納入國家級定位的這個目標那麼一直是我們這幾年來重要的工作那麼主委在當初時任主任的時候就提出了這個計畫"},{"start":16530.64,"end":16556.897,"text":"那麼這個計畫我們在本會裡面已經做過很多次的討論那麼現在我們就是準備如果本會這邊對我們所提出的草案那麼大家就有共識的話就要準備送出本會然後進入一個正式的審議那請教主任您預估什麼時候這個國家級的樂舞團可以成立是 跟委員報告那麼上個禮拜我們也邀請行政院的人事長就是在主委的支持之下"},{"start":16557.597,"end":16577.611,"text":"邀請任市長來我們園區那麼他也體認到我們園區這個樂舞劇團的重要性那麼也點出了一些方向那麼這個重點如下第一個那就是說希望國家對於這個舞團那個資源的挹注要穩定那麼第二個也希望這個舞台舞團未來的定位要維持它一定的自主性"},{"start":16578.251,"end":16592.811,"text":"那麼至於達到這個目標的路有好幾種所以我們後續會跟本會還有跟行政院人事總署持續討論我也希望到我的辦公室跟我報告因為我關心這一題很久了我覺得為什麼我要這樣講"},{"start":16594.053,"end":16615.433,"text":"我們主委在擔任文化發展中心主任的時候做了一件我很感動的事情除了申請那個綠珠雕琢計畫你們在去年也成立了新的歌舞展演場之外我比較感動的是他針對每一組去做歌舞劇特別是從冰唯雨組開始做起"},{"start":16617.345,"end":16638.206,"text":"這個讓很多的濱維語族很有尊榮感甚至讓很多的年輕人回流我覺得這個是很重要的一件事那其實國家級的樂舞團他鼓勵的不是這些舞者而是鼓勵所有原住民的這些藝術家歌舞展演者我們也能夠成為國家級的表演者"},{"start":16638.926,"end":16662.331,"text":"這個就是我講的每次都說原住民文化多好多好聲量不相稱我們看不到國家對他們尊重的做法這樣可以嗎是好 謝謝那另外一個部分我也是要特別提這個也是很多年前為什麼呢因為我在客家公共傳播基金會看到他們有做一個預算就是成立一個國立的客家兒童合唱團"},{"start":16665.629,"end":16690.87,"text":"一年編1050萬現在多少我不知道那他們做什麼事呢他們跟兩廳院合作所以每一年都會讓客家兒童和唱團上去表演所以我幾年前也關注這個問題什麼時候我們原住民也可以有但是我關注是因為國際間唱原住民歌曲的團隊越來越少最主要的原因是我們沒有做出編曲"},{"start":16692.412,"end":16714.246,"text":"如果我們有編曲全世界的管弦樂團 合唱團他們都可以來演出我們台灣的原住民各族的歌謠但是因為國家 原民會沒有帶頭做所以現在反而是客家啊 菲律賓啊哇 國際間反而是他們的歌越來越多現在都沒有人在唱我們的歌了所以原民會要重視這個問題那當然合唱團也好"},{"start":16718.055,"end":16741.75,"text":"或者是青少年管弦樂團也好我是希望說園民會可以來主動去規劃甚至是一些跨校的團隊組織可以來補助因為我看到教文處長站出來 處長您有什麼看法謝謝 委員 您這個建議非常好其實因為我們現在原住民孩子善居在全台灣各地"},{"start":16742.23,"end":16765.547,"text":"如果你要組成一個單一的國家的原住民管弦樂團他會有那個往返集訓孩子們的交通等等各方面問題所以在現階段要成立一個單一的團隊可能比較困難那我的建議是說我們可以鼓勵我們區域性的來組成這樣區域性的管弦樂團東區北區南區這樣他們就近可以來做練習未來也可以演出所以我們"},{"start":16766.827,"end":16790.693,"text":"會來籌放那鼓勵各區來組隊我希望教文處可以主動來規劃背後不單單是訓練我們這一些孩子們的音樂專長更重要是背後要有編曲要有曲譜這個對於我們的國際能見度跟文化傳承都是很有幫助的好不好這個部分其實我們在五年前就已經做了我們跟國家交響樂團已經有"},{"start":16792.073,"end":16815.96,"text":"把16組的股票改變成交響業會後我會把這個CD交轉謝謝我就是一直在關注這個問題希望也給我一個報告那再來我要關心那個部落公法人的計畫我記得我在這一屆的第一個會期也就是113年的3月我院會總質詢我有跟院長說部落原住民自治"},{"start":16817.52,"end":16846.22,"text":"還沒有共識之前至少部落公法人要先上那也很謝謝主委那在院長的一個支持之下你也開始要推動但是我現在有點頭痛因為我記得我質詢的時候是說應該找一些需要部落公法人工具的部落來辦理我們才有辦法檢討成效而且應該要有一個所謂的座談會也好或者是說明會"},{"start":16847.1,"end":16868.107,"text":"在全國各地讓大家可以去聽一聽 辦一辦但是我發現很多參與的部落也沒有什麼現在要用到部落公法人工具然後我也沒有看到他們的一個檢討說明會那我不太曉得說到底現在要怎麼做"},{"start":16872.691,"end":16898.348,"text":"跟委員報告就是針對那個114年的四個師範部落工法人我們已經有針對他們的執行一年後的成果逐一做一個檢討會議然後我們也邀請一些相關的學者專家去幫我們檢視他們過去一年的執行的狀況來當作後續要辦理的一個基礎那15年的部分我們會朝向就是說希望能夠把這個透過這樣的一個實踐的經驗把法規生出來的這樣的方式來持續辦理"},{"start":16900.169,"end":16924.676,"text":"我的意思是說我們要在做中學啦像這個部落公法人你們應該要研議法規的鬆綁讓事辦的部落有明確的工具去執行他的法人行為嘛例如去跟廠商締約或者是說開戶等等我覺得這個部落公法人他很重要嘛甚至有的部落可能他們已經告訴我說"},{"start":16926.263,"end":16952.831,"text":"既然以前的村民大會已經變成部落會議為什麼村長不要變成部落會議主席也有人這樣跟我講所以我覺得其實各個部落各個族群都有不同的想法我們希望透過事辦就是要去抓到各個部落事辦的一個成效跟檢討我們才有辦法往前推進但是因為我一直都沒有拿到這些報告我也沒有看到你們"},{"start":16953.651,"end":16980.62,"text":"那既然這樣子講 我希望給我好 不好意思 按鈴了 第五個那個文件站的趙服員 我先這樣講我這幾年碰到很多文件站收站了第一個 評鑑不佳退場第二 理事長換人了 他們說我們不接了第三 也有人是招不到人了 所以就退場了但是他們有一個共同的問題來找我們就是資遣費發不出來啦"},{"start":16983.319,"end":16985.12,"text":"你叫我怎麼去協調這種事我只是想問當政府撥款給一個協會協會用這個錢去聘用造福員然後他收了之後可能因為辦不好或者是不可抗力的原因他沒有去支付那些造福員的資遣費啦然後重點我算給你看50歲以上的造福員現在佔90%"},{"start":17009.048,"end":17021.991,"text":"有大概374位28%即將400位 即將要退場要退休 借齡退休而且50歲以上的竟然佔那麼多啦"},{"start":17023.902,"end":17042.875,"text":"這個以後衍生出來的一堆問題即將在未來的幾年就會陸續發生然後我們接棒我們交給協會去做這些事大家也都清楚知道啊地方的社區發展協會又不是盈利單位甚至很多運作也不是很正常結果園民會把這樣的重責大任交給他們"},{"start":17044.597,"end":17069.696,"text":"可以跟委員報告 那我們的資錢費是可以用行政管理費去做支應的只要說非規則與執行單位的部分他們都說不夠 他們說那一點點的他們說他們付不出來那沒關係 那縣府我們也有一些行政管理費縣府也不管他們 我們都開過協調會如果有個案的話我們可以來看一下所以你的意思就是說 未來協會衍生出的這些大量的資錢費 原民會都會買單"},{"start":17071.751,"end":17073.717,"text":"所以那些企劃負責人都不用扛責任"},{"start":17078.091,"end":17101.98,"text":"如果是規則以他們自己 如果他個人因素說我這個人不要的話 那可能行政長官是要我是希望 園民會應該要會同勞動部 釐清三方契約下的雇主責任歸屬提出制度性的解決方案然後呢 也要去研議文件站的營運模式過去這些具備穩定財力跟專業的這些社福機構我不曉得為什麼他們要退場"},{"start":17109.94,"end":17123.58,"text":"這個 原民會要重新去檢討了解我的意思齁所以我覺得這個部分 請原民會好好檢討也給我一個報告 也希望到辦公室報告齁那再來就是元寶地的貸款終於上路了齁"},{"start":17124.554,"end":17138.576,"text":"我相信很多的事情萬事起頭難但是我相信也很多人在觀望看這個結果所以我希望園民會能夠每一年的提出檢討報告"},{"start":17140.314,"end":17154.834,"text":"對的事情 對的政策我希望園民會就要堅持我相信政府也不會不管 好不好那儲蓄互助社呢也是我知道園民會多少年來也都在幫忙補貼利息"},{"start":17157.297,"end":17180.915,"text":"讓我們的族人到儲蓄互助社可以用比較低的利率或者是也可以用原保地比較簡單的方式可及性的方式去拿到一些金融但是我其實要講的就是說因為你們在去年的10月27號發布一個新辦法然後又說之後的10月27號以後要用新辦法讓他們措手不及"},{"start":17181.736,"end":17198.931,"text":"我已經有在上上個禮拜幫忙開協調會齁那這個協調會其實很有共識喔因為我們發現原來是一場誤會啊因為對原民會來講現在你們的放款放到五千萬之後哇 你們的錢暴增你們要補貼給儲蓄戶住社的錢暴增"},{"start":17201.633,"end":17226.281,"text":"但是對儲蓄互助社來講其實他也沒有賺到錢他在意的是你利息補貼讓他們可以用較低的利率給我們的族人所以他們說建議你們園民會只要去做放款的總額管制其實就可以解決雙方的問題所以主委這個部分我是想說後面可能你們還要有一個明確的公文再發下去可以嗎"},{"start":17227.922,"end":17243.435,"text":"好 謝謝那再來也是一個問題就是原住民知識體系這個計畫中長城110到114年結束一樣的問題他們也是突然拿到一個公文說以後不辦了所以我們又要開協調會但是開了協調會發現又是誤會一場"},{"start":17247.859,"end":17266.862,"text":"那彼此之間也找到共識那我細節我就不細講我只是要表達希望原民會以後對於新的措施 新的辦法請提早一點啦而且一定要做好溝通檢討避免衍生這些不需要的誤解好不好"},{"start":17267.443,"end":17288.51,"text":"好那這個部分我也希望就是要把那個確定的部分發給各個承辦的大學因為很多知識中心很擔心他們的大學會對他們有所誤解所以這個公文一定要發好不好好謝謝那再來就是我比較關心的原住民族教育的一個中長程的發展"},{"start":17290.111,"end":17317.949,"text":"今年115到119新的中長城計畫出來了那我很高興就是我過去長期要求的園民會跟教育部一定要有一個最上位的思考如果我們最上位思考是原住民自治人才的培育就應該要知道要培養哪一些人才既然知道要培養哪一些人才就應該主動積極去找大學的優勢學校科系讓他們來承攬這一些專班"},{"start":17319.45,"end":17334.484,"text":"這個才是正辦殺手不管你看現在一堆原專班開了但是沒有什麼原住民自治人才的相關的重要科技開了結果少子化之後一間一間又關閉"},{"start":17336.471,"end":17354.233,"text":"所以我覺得原民會一定要跟教育部一定要長長的去討論最上位的思考那麼公務人才的培育就是原住民自治人才的培育那未來原資中心全國各大專業校也都開設了那它未來它的角色是什麼"},{"start":17355.174,"end":17379.148,"text":"他要輔導我們的學生啊 你看我們的原治中心喔越開設越奇怪因為我們的出債學率 高等教育跟一般的大學生是落差達38%錯學率喔 跟一般全體的大學生差38%國小差不多 國中差不多 高中差不多竟然到大學是斷崖式的表示我們的大學生很可憐啊"},{"start":17384.704,"end":17411.254,"text":"他們去哪裡了去打工了去哪裡了所以這個部分我真的希望原資中心的角色要去重視他所以我希望教文處長在這邊我相信這方面你其實很有想法也很多心得那未來在我們的原住民教育的中長城計畫跟考選部 權序部 人總教育部 園民會可以一同的來努力好不好"},{"start":17413.135,"end":17439.625,"text":"那這個最後就是說關於跨溝通的平台我希望原民會你們也要找農業部啦因為上次你們跟農業部一人出一半的錢全國營養午餐推廣小米結果呢只有推廣三十幾間學校因為找不到小米為什麼原住民一百多年前台灣的主食小米為什麼淪落到今天這個地步"},{"start":17440.785,"end":17465.664,"text":"沒有人種小米是不是因為我們的山坡地我們沒有辦法種是不是因為我們的森林法 野保法 水保法 山坡保育利用條例種種的法令限制了我們的土地的利用所以我覺得這個部分農業部我也常常跟他們溝通我希望原住民的產銷班都能夠去重視小米種不出來沒有人種小米這件事可以嗎 主委"},{"start":17466.991,"end":17493.349,"text":"可以 謝謝那最後就是關於我們的這個姓名之亂因為大法官釋憲之後我們的原住民身份法做了最新的修法所以新法要去讓舊法的人趕快在1月5號前辦理我要跟主委說我的辦公室接了300多通電話南部服務處台北辦公室每一個助理都在負責接電話我們也已經接到很會回答問題了"},{"start":17496.811,"end":17505.878,"text":"所以所有的問題都解決了好我現在只是要說請護鎮所當時我有要求要個別通知你們有去跟護鎮所溝通了嗎有啊"},{"start":17507.932,"end":17534.325,"text":"好 那其中有一個我還沒有辦法解套現在講給你聽就是姓名條例第15條有宣告這個經過判決確定的人要執行完畢滿三年所以有一堆人要等三年後改名但是我覺得很奇怪因為他不是要改名他的漢名還是漢名他只是要並列增加原住民的名字而已羅馬拼音 原住民族文字"},{"start":17535.285,"end":17561.479,"text":"你們可不可以含釋一下免得他們三年後才能夠變原住民包委員因為這個部分是屬於內政部主管的法規這個部分我們再跟內政部協調一下我的意思是說原民會要主動去積極協調不是由立委每次開協調會還有一些衍生的費用以及所有的系統健保卡 身分證 護照 駕照一堆人跟我們說都打不上去啦"},{"start":17562.299,"end":17579.479,"text":"而且很多人還拿到手寫本所以這個蠻困擾的其實很多年前我們就有開始去要求但是進度有點慢希望園民會再跟各部會來去做溝通協調外交部內政部很多那再來就是最後一個禁法補償"},{"start":17580.9,"end":17604.314,"text":"關於禁法補償 很多的我們的族人就是因為他們很擔心會列入所謂的收入所以在社會救助法這個地方我們很多年前也開過協調會當時要求原民會只要做出不具經濟效益他們就願意來認證但是他們現在就是回復說要把它列入不動產"},{"start":17605.134,"end":17627.361,"text":"所以我在去年的11月我也開過協調會那目前衛福部是說他們社會救助法會做修法但是也請原民會在禁法補償條例也要做修法所以這個部分社助法也好禁法補償條例也好我個人都已經提出修法反本那不曉得原民會這個部分有沒有積極的來處理"},{"start":17629.817,"end":17651.397,"text":"這個部分在12月17號我們已經邀請華為部還有衛福部以及財政部來做一些跨部會的一些協調那我們持續會在追蹤好不好這個應該要積極來辦理主任很關心那安息日會我要謝謝你們因為他們禮拜六做安息什麼事也不能做也不能參加考試所以他們很少公務員"},{"start":17652.478,"end":17678.739,"text":"因為國家考試都放在禮拜六他們幾十年來陳情也很難啦但是我要誇獎園民會園民會你們基於族人的愛護幾年前你們有同意他們的三育聖經學校作為考場然後送完夕陽之後就開始考試但是他們有接到通知說115年說不准了啦我想聽一下原因是什麼"},{"start":17680.711,"end":17689.591,"text":"跟委員做說明在前次我們有去拜會陳介嶺校長陳校長他也特別提出如果是在安息州那是沒有問題"},{"start":17690.495,"end":17715.722,"text":"就以他們提出的條件作為考試場合這是第一個我們有辦到那麼第二個就是如果不是非安息州他們是開放外面那這個週次我們就不安排那個考場那這一次上次的問題是因為他們整個的系統上出了一些的小錯誤這跟委員以上所以意思就是說其實還是可以的對不對是 可以好 謝謝我想替族人去著想是園民會的責任那謝謝也請園民會繼續努力謝謝主委"},{"start":17720.323,"end":17728.967,"text":"好謝謝主席好謝謝吳麗華委員的質詢接下來我們請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在現在請陳穎委員發言好謝謝召委我的問題會少一點那個麻煩請園民會主委請政治委"},{"start":17750.996,"end":17765.015,"text":"委員好主委好剛剛我接續吳立華委員提的這個我們更改姓名之亂我想其實很多在這個過程當中很多人其實都遭受到一些"},{"start":17766.517,"end":17785.099,"text":"令人很生氣又很麻煩的狀況啦那即便現在1月5號的日期已經到了截止了我相信還是有很多人的這個更改姓名這件事情還沒有完成可能陸續之後都會接到戶政事務所的通知還需要再繼續去改名字"},{"start":17786.18,"end":17805.946,"text":"但是我要提醒主委在已經完成的這些人當中也有不少護證人員他們因為具備的訓練不足弄錯法規的所以這是我們的親身經驗就旁邊的人發生的事情所以"},{"start":17807.966,"end":17834.531,"text":"我是要提醒就是說因為畢竟後續我們還會陸續通知我們還沒更改姓名的這個族人需要更改的要去改那這部分我要要求你們原民會跟內政部你們會同內政部一起就針對要去承辦這個這些這一次姓名更改的這些戶政人員還需要再做一次的加強訓練"},{"start":17835.931,"end":17858.537,"text":"因為在不少的這個案例當中其實改來改去中間的程序真的是錯的結果也不完全是正確的那這個部分我想我在這裡特別要求你們是不是可以什麼時候大概在兩個禮拜內跟內政部來檢討這個事情"},{"start":17861.022,"end":17862.646,"text":"會 我們盡快跟內政部這邊來做協調然後趕快來訓練OK 好 謝謝"},{"start":17868.853,"end":17892.871,"text":"在1月7號這個主計總署依照前年國民黨通過的財化法的版本那試算並公佈了縣市新的這個財力分級那我們台東從第5級調整到第1級花蓮也從第4級跳到第2級那台東跟花蓮加起來只有一個綠島不是原鄉"},{"start":17894.052,"end":17918.426,"text":"其他的都是原住民族地區全國的55個園鄉光這個台東花蓮就佔了一半台東15個花蓮13個園民會的很多政策都是以園鄉為主而做的規劃可是現在很多園民會的資源可能就無法下去台東花蓮那這個表來我們看一下"},{"start":17920.026,"end":17942.238,"text":"是園民會前兩年補助台東與花蓮縣府的這個跟公所的經費那這裡面涵蓋了各項計畫的補助經費你們有沒有試算過台東與花蓮在新的財力分級之下接下來縣府跟公所的自籌款會增加多少負擔增加多少因為我們會修改相關的法例"},{"start":17947.076,"end":17968.252,"text":"目前還沒有精算出來我建議你們趕快盤點 趕快算一下因為原民會的計畫對財力分級補助的比例都不太一樣經費通常比較龐大的是特色道路隨便一條特色道路動輒都是好幾千萬元的"},{"start":17969.642,"end":17995.656,"text":"台東的原鄉過去提報一個特色道路計畫假如經費是需要1000萬元公所他們所負擔的是150萬元新的財力分級規定台東原鄉的自籌款必須增加一倍新的財力分級規定自籌款比例增加一倍的情況下我是非常擔心說公所他會沒有錢因為原鄉"},{"start":17997.076,"end":18023.236,"text":"這個建設會不會因此而停滯無法繼續發展本席是非常的擔心因為畢竟每個鄉鎮有時候可能跟縣府交情可能不太一樣原住民的這個假牙補助在新的財力分歧之下台東縣府的自籌從10%提高到了50%我們部落還有很多原鄉的老人家他們的牙齒是還沒長出來"},{"start":18024.877,"end":18045.302,"text":"原住民的這個住宅建構修繕的補助地方自籌比例是從10%變到100%那這些補助的政策是直接影響我們族人的民生需求那你們到底有沒有跟縣府好好的溝通那這些補助是不是確保可以來繼續執行呢"},{"start":18047.639,"end":18074.213,"text":"各位報告那個假牙補助原先是36000我們不但沒有減少還增加到4萬塊這個不會受影響好所以就是財力分級改變不會受影響所以你們這一筆還是會繼續認對 還增加或許在未來還有繼續有機會增加本席深深期待那我希望就是但其他的可能就沒有那麼好了吧"},{"start":18075.148,"end":18091.994,"text":"我跟委員講 委員報告雖然是它因為財務法的關係它增加了一些變成第一級但是我想對鹽香不管它是哪一級它永遠是比較脆弱的部分也比較需要協助的部分所以這個部分我們鹽米會還是一樣會給協助"},{"start":18094.395,"end":18111.257,"text":"好那这个但是你还是要先盘点啦是因为你这样讲我们就还是很担心啊所以本期希望园民会所有这个需要地方政府配合款的计划都应该要针对台东花莲的情形来调降自筹款的比例"},{"start":18111.798,"end":18138.583,"text":"那專案報行政院同意那特別是由公所負責自籌款的部分一定要大幅調降自籌的比例不然這些公所可能到最後都無力負擔所以這個部分要特別拜託主委也麻煩你們盡快可以盤點各項計畫來跟本席說明然後趕快提報行政院那你們需要大概多少時間"},{"start":18144.884,"end":18153.97,"text":"兩個月可以嗎這個月就可以報了很難得本席說兩個月然後園民會自己說一個月那先跟你們拍拍手"},{"start":18155.307,"end":18180.191,"text":"很罕見的情況這個也可以報啦但是對方回復的話至少給我們一個月的時間你們起碼先報上這個月就把他報上去嘛處長都這麼說了好 那剩下的我們再來催行政院了另外我們看一下這是上個禮拜的新聞要請教一下園民會那因為這個財化法的影響希望把原住民的這個急難救助政策移交到地方政府"},{"start":18181.071,"end":18207.556,"text":"這個部分你們是如何跟地方政府溝通各位報告我們在去年九月的時候有跟地方政府來那因為財務法那個資源已經到地方去所以就是麻煩地方政府的部分就有關緊張救助部分也可以來編列比如像這次新聞是談到那個成功證他就48萬那但是就是因為這樣的狀況之下我們還有66家的那個原價中心跟222個"},{"start":18209.346,"end":18229.814,"text":"那個原家的一個社工 原住民社工還有33個都島 我這樣問你舉例成功鎮啦 但我們還有其他的鄉鎮你們大家都有同意接手嗎 哪些同意哪些不同意幾乎大概就是照這個政策方向去走 但是就是大家努力要再去跟"},{"start":18230.414,"end":18250.804,"text":"那個縣政府要去爭取一些相關的預算就是他們要去跟縣府爭取那地方政府有同意接手嗎有縣政府全部同意所以急難救助是救命錢那這個部分他不會中斷因為他還有其他的一些相關縣府的衛福部的急難紓困的"},{"start":18251.343,"end":18273.389,"text":"這些資源都還在你們如果有下去溝通那是不是有一個具體譬如說會議記錄有公文就是確保這個急難救助是沒有問題的好那這個部分麻煩具體提出具體的證據跟說明不然大家還是挨叫那個因為"},{"start":18274.009,"end":18298.221,"text":"我們另外在這個政府的這個原住民土地政策上我們都有不斷的在努力所以還我土地這個口號最近比較少聽到但是我們在這裡還是要很認真的喊一下要還我土地啊在原民會知不知道台鐵用了多少我們的保留地 443公頃2997匹"},{"start":18302.5,"end":18318.98,"text":"好那光台東呢我們就有121公頃那過去這個台鐵局是依照這個原保地管理運用辦法規定無償方式撥用了數十年那兩年前這個台鐵公司他已經"},{"start":18319.961,"end":18342.464,"text":"公式化就是等於公式化之後已經不符合這個無償使用的這個規範那不但不想繳租金現在還很認真的在想說怎麼樣可以把我們的原保地就把它拿過去直接繼續無償使用是大家應該都有掌握這個可怕的訊息吧了解 當然有我們是希望說將來是朝城駐的方向去處理"},{"start":18343.069,"end":18362.955,"text":"我想也是要跟大家講一下各部會其實這件事情對原住民來說是很大的禁忌踩到地雷那就像我們的元寶地光是在那個光是在退福會的那個台堂的我們要拿都拿不回來了現在還想要拿出去那簡直是天方夜譚"},{"start":18364.556,"end":18393.059,"text":"對所以那個跟委員報告其實我們已經有完全掌握台鐵公司他們公司化之後他們現在就是他們使用的原本在台鐵時代使用的那些比數跟面積讓我們將來我們有去試算過如果說將來承住的話大概一年大概會有兩千兩千兩百五十萬的這樣子一個租金收入那這個部分我們會持續往老朝這個方向去跟台鐵公司那邊去協調所以繼續使用接下來就要收費了是是那前面兩年怎麼算"},{"start":18393.929,"end":18422.829,"text":"我们再跟他持续协调协调讨债是用协商吗所以那个前两年的租金要缴吗还是免费封送没有应该是要去应该也是要去回溯他只要在租金求全的那个时效范围之内都可以因为已经不符合这个法规的这个范围内了对那就麻烦你们好好去讨债吧好总共多少钱"},{"start":18424.683,"end":18441.51,"text":"2200多萬每一年我們初步估算今天如果是以後如果把台鐵公司他們公司化之後他們現在使用的那些原保地的比數跟面積用公告地價去算的話我們大概會每年的租金收入會增加2250多萬"},{"start":18443.373,"end":18460.468,"text":"好 那努力喔好 謝謝好 報告召委最後一小題很快在上次主委不久前我有特別跟主委來反映其實應該不只一次我們這個真話編的這個"},{"start":18463.85,"end":18481.628,"text":"土地案件真的是太多了特別是花東地區那人力不足是蠻嚴重的問題那也感謝主委有承諾就是要來解決這樣的問題那大家可能不了解這個人力不足有多麼痛苦"},{"start":18482.589,"end":18510.268,"text":"那我在這邊也要算是褒獎也表達遺憾啦在過去呢 園民會圖館處有一位非常優秀的泰雅族女生呢她是台大法律系畢業的她非常重點是 難得她非常喜歡辦理這個園保地真化編的業務她不但專業 而且她喜歡那表示她有熱情嘛我們的我們的處裡面是不是特別需要這樣子的人才對 沒錯"},{"start":18510.908,"end":18531.069,"text":"好 但是很可惜的在前年10月他無預警的就被調到別的地方了應該不是你調的吧不是 他自己去應徵的不是啦 我是說他不可能自己跑掉他是不得已沒辦法待才跑掉的不是嗎是就跟你說他有熱情他是不想走的啊那後來"},{"start":18532.19,"end":18556.908,"text":"他就是因為無預警的就必須被迫要調到別的地方嘛那所以他結果呢最後他回不了圖館處啦所以他就乾脆就對外應徵跑去其他部會就走了叫不回來真的好可惜那前年我想我想另外就是說"},{"start":18561.337,"end":18588.266,"text":"這個規劃科研你們現在是編目前原則是三位但是你們編制有七個是所以報告主委比例只有42%你可以回去跟其他的那個科室出事比一下好 那個主委不知道上次您答應之後到截至目前為止你們的進度人力調配的進度有沒有什麼進展"},{"start":18589.686,"end":18604.558,"text":"可以在這裡報告一下嗎跟委員報告其實我們這次請政的緣額下來主委也非常支持啦是 他從頭到尾都非常支持對 他實際上那個主委有提供我們土管處那個相當的緣額來去支援這樣子的一個振化邊業務的工作"},{"start":18605.492,"end":18626.988,"text":"你講的是提供編制的緣額還是提供編制內的緣額 對啦但是人沒有到位啊都被別人調走了那個以後會有新的緣額進來大概是三個月那主委請問一下就是大概什麼時候會調回來會補人力啦什麼時候 因為這個問題也問了很久了"},{"start":18628.169,"end":18657.518,"text":"本辦就好幾百件塞車了就是來增加的人員大概多少跟委員報告 行政院核增我們18個預算員額那目前 圖管處可以18個嗎不是不是 整個園民會那因為我們現在還在做那個官制官規要送到那個考試院去做備查還有後續的那個植物說明書的製作所以這個程序辦好之後我們會馬上就是朝大概需要多久"},{"start":18658.238,"end":18684.38,"text":"大概一般來說是兩到三個月的時間因為行政院是1月5號才核定我們這些員額的配置所以基本上會在兩到三個月的時間內用最快的方式去做那我們也先跟全序部那邊先打過招呼就希望我們兩個說兩個機關互相配合盡快的完成這個關智關貴的法制作業程序 以上報告主委所以18個員額你打算要放多少到圖管處"},{"start":18686.248,"end":18706.795,"text":"至少四位至少四位 已經是最多的了我們不用跟主任請示不用 不用啦 不用確定喔 確定啦好 那我就不用問他了好 那是今天很好的消息了那我們就等待好 謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":18712.431,"end":18739.631,"text":"謝謝陳委員的質詢登記發言的委員除不在場者外其餘經與發言完畢 詢答結束委員林倩琦 丁雪中 徐欣穎 盧憲一所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會本次會議到此結束 現在散會"}]}},{"id":"167145","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167145","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851ae8ce725877e4176c02888e1e08ec371f6512ba5efdfd30ac6a74b42f456a0955ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"10:04:04 - 10:18:58","影片長度":"00:14:54","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:04:04+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:18:58+08:00","duration":894,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.86096875,"end":9.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.172843750000002,"end":11.235968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.10409375,"end":18.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.16721875,"end":40.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.03721875,"end":125.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.65034375,"end":86.78534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.66096875000001,"end":293.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.45346875,"end":321.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.30971875,"end":324.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.55409375,"end":344.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.39784375,"end":325.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.68596875000003,"end":349.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.90034375000005,"end":361.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.79721875,"end":378.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.21221875000003,"end":451.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.17784375,"end":411.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.83159375,"end":412.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.91159375,"end":413.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.44409375000004,"end":434.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.34534375000004,"end":446.02034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.67346875000004,"end":454.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.74471875,"end":457.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.41534375000003,"end":456.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.20846875,"end":457.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.98471875,"end":463.70534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.97971875,"end":482.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.30159375000005,"end":482.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.43659375000004,"end":510.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.86784375,"end":504.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.77909375,"end":504.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.36909375000005,"end":562.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.63346875,"end":519.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.8103437500001,"end":522.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.74409375,"end":541.6340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.5828437499999,"end":546.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.21471875,"end":552.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.26409375,"end":561.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.95159375,"end":561.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.0190937500001,"end":575.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.4072187500001,"end":562.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.30846875,"end":573.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.18159375,"end":597.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.92909375,"end":718.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.70909375,"end":630.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.9897187500001,"end":642.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.3659687500001,"end":722.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.55971875,"end":737.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.8884687500001,"end":723.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.9340937500001,"end":729.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.5834687500001,"end":731.0053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.0678437500001,"end":736.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.31659375,"end":749.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.85659375,"end":738.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.2565937500001,"end":743.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":748.3528437500001,"end":750.3272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.97284375,"end":752.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.7322187500001,"end":751.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.3984687500001,"end":765.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.44721875,"end":792.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.2278437500001,"end":802.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":802.3190937500001,"end":805.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.11221875,"end":803.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":805.7278437500001,"end":810.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":809.55846875,"end":845.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":815.17784375,"end":816.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":844.2197187500001,"end":869.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":848.65784375,"end":849.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":869.5490937500001,"end":889.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":889.02284375,"end":889.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":889.7990937500001,"end":891.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.3640937500002,"end":894.96284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":9.412,"text":"郭鈺請委員質詢好謝謝主席有請部長有請鄭部長委員長"},{"start":19.212,"end":39.22,"text":"部長早安辛苦了我想最近全台免費營養午餐的政策快速的在擴散目前已經有大概20個縣市他們也跟進上週連嘉義縣他們也宣布115學年度全面要免費但是他有說每年要多支出3.2億"},{"start":41.421,"end":55.312,"text":"我想嘉義縣長他也坦白的說其實財政對於所謂的地方政府來講其實是長期蠻吃緊的而且是一個長期的負擔甚至是要靠所謂的節省其他的一些支出來撐這個營養午餐免費的這樣子的一個政策"},{"start":58.895,"end":86.218,"text":"那我想也要提醒一下就是說我們身為這個主管機關那也要避免這樣子的一個現象變成是縣市之間的一種福利或者是軍備競賽那我想因為像台北市這樣子的一個資源比較多的這個縣市跟其他的縣市來講其實其他縣市他們在整個所有的財務的結構當然這個壓力也就全面的浮現因為這個要推所謂的"},{"start":86.678,"end":101.537,"text":"免費的營養午餐那大家都在講這個再窮不能窮教育啊那再怎麼樣苦也不能苦孩子啊這個是口號大家都知道那但是這也是我們必須要去正式面對的喔那我想呢如果沒有整體的一個預算的考量跟規劃"},{"start":102.378,"end":125.535,"text":"那有可能會因為各個縣市他們在排這個所謂的全面的免費營養午餐這件事情去擠壓到其他的教育的經費那這是我們不樂見的所以在這裡我想要還是提醒一下這個教育部我們身為這個主管機關可能之後有一些建議我等一下會再來跟這個部長來分享那我們先來看一下這個日本他們怎麼做的"},{"start":126.724,"end":144.965,"text":"其實在日本他們其實有特別針對這個學校的營養午餐所需要的但是他們長期以來大部分都是所謂的家長來做付費那當然這個有一些好處那麼他們的整個所有的做法是包含了這個學校要幫忙所有的設施設備的一個費用"},{"start":146.246,"end":167.001,"text":"那另外還有包含這個學校的營養午餐的營運的費用是由學校來支出那其他的就是這些費用之外的營養午餐所需要的其他的費用包含這個餐費的部分是長期是由使用者的家長來做負擔那當然這個最近他們才有一些部分的地方來推動這個免費的營養午餐"},{"start":169.062,"end":193.694,"text":"不過這也佔總體在日本的40%而已這個還沒有過半就是只有40%是這樣子的一個設置同時其實他們最主要的原因是為什麼他們沒有全面推是因為他們也擔心因為資源的排擠因為財政的負擔因為這樣會排擠到所謂的營養午餐的品質"},{"start":194.794,"end":220.594,"text":"這也是現在其實我們也聽到很多的家長的聲音如果我的價格被鎖死了那我的孩子要吃得更好一點但如果這個價格被鎖死我們沒有考量到其他的一些成本的費用包含儲供或者是包含運輸的成本還有包含物價的成本我價格鎖死在那個地方為了要提供給學生的營養午餐但問題是我排擠到其他的資源"},{"start":221.314,"end":248.035,"text":"教育的資源包含校舍包含師資包含一些人力行政等等我排擠到這些所謂的資源的一個預算的時候那我的營養午餐的品質有沒有可能以前不用裹粉的扎扎實實的就是肉一塊但是現在因為這個價格所使我變成肉變小塊了成本降低了但我全部都要裹粉家長會開始有一些擔心所以我們必須把這樣子的一個現象"},{"start":249.036,"end":266.156,"text":"來提點就是身為主管機關的教育部那在這個部分我想要請教的喔當然我們說營養的就是免費的營養午餐我相信有一些好處有些好處但是他相對的來講有哪一些些我們可能要被預期"},{"start":266.997,"end":283.818,"text":"要發現的一些面臨的風險跟挑戰那不包含第一就是地方的財政的壓力這個我剛剛有提到再來第二我會不會排擠到其他的教育資源的預算好這個也是再來我的公餐的水準要怎麼樣能夠維持"},{"start":285.64,"end":306.165,"text":"才不會影響到孩子的這個營養的健康那在這裡我想要請教一下這個部長最核心的一個問題啦在所有的各縣市沒有中央統一的一個財政的支撐之下那麼真香說我要推所謂的這個營養午餐那我們的教育預算真的能夠零排擠嗎"},{"start":307.566,"end":323.708,"text":"這個部分我想請教一下是不是已經開始有些地方的這個縣市政府他們也在反映說我可能因為營養午餐的部分我必須要舉債或者是我也會排擠到其他的教育的支出這個部分這個教育部有掌握嗎"},{"start":325.126,"end":347.867,"text":"謝謝委員 確實因為我們台灣現在因為產業的巨弱不一它散佈在各個地方縣市政府也不同產業結構這個的差異也造成地方縣市的一些稅收跟中央的投籌分配款這個一般它確實是有落差的那委員剛才所關心的它確實會有這樣的一個問題"},{"start":350.169,"end":378.371,"text":"現在教育部有掌握到目前已經有些縣市已經開始受到所謂的這些正在排擠不管是獅子也好人力也好或者是學校的教學設備有沒有排擠到過去跟我們報告確實因為像營養午餐因為專門的營養師或者相關的一些人力過去我們中央是因應這個地方它的區域譬如偏鄉或者小規模的怎麼樣有一些"},{"start":379.312,"end":399.201,"text":"整體的一些協助然後這一個人力的經費由中央來協助包含偏鄉經濟弱勢包含委員剛才所提的那些所謂的偏鄉的那些廚房等等的這些設備那我們當然也希望說在因應地方一方面它是真的"},{"start":399.941,"end":415.791,"text":"在委員大家所關心的專法之前已經有10個縣市已經免費使用然後專法還沒有大家還在討論已經有變成20個縣市所以只能說它真的就是一個地方制的前線"},{"start":416.491,"end":430.582,"text":"那教育部這邊我們當然還是希望說中央未來怎麼跟地方來合作來協助我們至少在怎麼樣讓學童吃得健康吃得安全食材我們有監控的機制三戰EQ現在已經達到99%98.99%"},{"start":434.505,"end":453.59,"text":"那這樣的一個情況我們怎麼跟地方合作你們一定要落實因為我們知道地方因為他把這個營養午餐變成地方來來這個免費使用他們也在今年也開始編了這個三張一Q的三Q的這個食材上的一些經費我想"},{"start":454.99,"end":481.733,"text":"地方也在努力但是委員所提及的所有的這些可能衍生的問題我們教育部也會跟地方來我們必須正面的承認這個所謂的這個政策競賽變成政策競賽這樣子的一個現實我們什麼時候會開始啟動中央對於地方政府在營養午餐這一塊的整個所有的盤點的作業或者是我們有沒有這個建立就是不要排擠到其他的教育運算的一個監測"},{"start":482.874,"end":498.819,"text":"謝謝我的提醒我們確實針對過去還沒有全面免費地方知識的時候我們有按照各個地方學校大小還有地方的生活指數有給不同的一些營養午餐確保品質確保這樣一個機制差別的"},{"start":503.94,"end":520.307,"text":"有一些部分是教育部來補助所以未來我們會把這些機制有一個更積極的那我們有一些更積極的一個配套或者是我們怎麼樣來做盤點然後再來跟我們的地方縣市政府怎麼樣來對接所謂的這個營養午餐的這一塊跟其他的這個教育經費的這個部分"},{"start":521.627,"end":541.439,"text":"不要产生所有的排挤那这个部分如果我们有更具体的一个盘点的计划或者是怎么样跟地方政府来做更好的一个沟通跟桥梁如果有具体的一些计划再提供给我办公室可以吗好的因为其实我们也担心就是人力的结构其实现在在学校就已经产生了非常非常大的我们也不希望发生这样的事"},{"start":541.519,"end":564.273,"text":"是 因為我們看到很多的營養師他是一人要尋多效啊然後再來再包含一些廚工他們長期領的所謂的這個基本工資可是他們是高壓高溫而且是壓力很大的一個工作的狀況之下其實也很難留得住人這個有可能會成為所謂的制度的一個破口這個部分我們也希望主管器官要來掌握國教署一定要充分掌握"},{"start":564.833,"end":582.771,"text":"地方縣市政府在推動營養午餐的所有的這一個因應這個地方改為是一個免費以後所有的真實的這個運作實施的情況好 沒問題那接著下來因為只剩下最後的這個兩分鐘不到的一個時間我想這個校事會議的部分那麼我是第一個"},{"start":583.611,"end":598.265,"text":"在去年的5月28號開始我就針對校事會議來做這樣子的一個質詢那麼當然其後我也收到有很多的不管是這個教育第一現場的老師跟我們陳情光是我的辦公室至少有100多案快200案"},{"start":599.286,"end":628.014,"text":"是老師的對於所謂的校事會議的一個澄清那我想今天我再次的針對所謂的校事會議的一個制度因為之前我們部長有說我們會往好的方向前進那麼預計在去年的12月底本來要公佈但是延到今年的1月12號但是這個公佈我們必須說兩個方向我肯定教育部的作為包含我們刪除匿名結局那麼我相信這個應該會減少很多所謂的爛訴長期大家在"},{"start":628.274,"end":657.407,"text":"第一线的紧张跟担忧好 再来的第二那么明定教师在这个教评会呈述意见的同时其实我们也要去把过去我们忽略掉的这些所谓的程序正义再次的找回来那这个部分其实我们也肯定教育部的一个做法但是呢不管是我们的条文怎么写其实后续的怎么实施怎么盘点才能够修正所谓的不足来米平现在教师看到最新的1月12号的这个"},{"start":658.247,"end":682.808,"text":"結果他們還是心裡不免要擔憂啊那這個部分其實我真的還是要提醒這個教育部喔如果說第一我們剛剛講到我們要分流嘛對不對我們不是說這個案件進來之後我們先分流那麼不管是所謂的這個親師溝通的上面的小誤解或者是呢對於所謂的主觀認定對教學風格不滿這個部分我們怎麼樣把它剔除掉但問題是如果寫進寫進"},{"start":684.249,"end":711.753,"text":"的這個條文當中那後面其實我們要怎麼樣去執行怎麼樣去規範就像剛剛其實也有委員提到的我光是用教學不力這個字教學不力這四個字其實我的辦公室就已經收到好多的案件到底什麼叫做教學不力這些怎麼定義那我們後續怎麼樣來作為可以檢視的一個判斷的依據那麼當然民間的有一些這個教師的團體他們也在研擬就是說受理分流的一個檢核表"},{"start":712.333,"end":736.975,"text":"這個部分其實我也提醒這個教育部我們自己也來做這些檢核表也就是說我們把所有老師他們在現場可能會預期碰到的我們會整理過去的案例然後怎麼樣讓這個現場老師我們也會辦說明會這個就是我們就希望不要小案大辦因為我們這個校事會就只要只是處理那個已經到不適任這一個要解聘不濟聘的"},{"start":737.435,"end":752.185,"text":"了解 所以要怎麼樣來接受所謂的校園事件受理分流的檢核表這個部分我覺得我們教育部自己可以率先先來做起來呼籲一下這個一線老師他們好 那大概什麼時候可以出來給我們"},{"start":753.642,"end":777.648,"text":"說明會明天就有一個說明會我們也希望跟各地方政府裡邊也許可以有一個分區進一步的去有更多的一些我們當然理解這個所謂的制度的改變不可能一次一刀切也不可能一次就會馬上的到位當然其實我們聽到在第一線現場的教師朋友們他們還是會有很多的"},{"start":778.288,"end":801.491,"text":"心生疑慮或者是他們有承受壓力的這樣的一個空間所以我想如何定期的統計校事會議的案件跟數量還有它的類型還有結案的結果到底是什麼請問大概多久會有一次跟委員報告我們確實在新的修訂辦完以後我們會開始蒐集地方實際發生的案例然後在半年裡邊我們會全盤再做一個檢討"},{"start":802.392,"end":818.102,"text":"半年 所以是半年 基本上是半年 會是半年的時間我們大概基本上到六月等學期結束我們會有一個好 希望會有一些能夠讓教師們安心他們讓他們再好 那再來好 最重要的一點就是"},{"start":818.642,"end":844.256,"text":"對於查無不法的教師這個具體回復名譽的支持的一個做法我希望這個支持的做法能夠儘快趕快然後讓這些教師們他們真的已經接受過這麼長期的一個不管是調查或是結果其實真的也讓他身心俱疲的這樣子一個狀況怎麼樣回復他的這個不是要演藝中怎麼樣來讓他的名譽回復這是太重要的一件事情"},{"start":846.418,"end":869.559,"text":"當時第一次在執行這個就有特別提到這個部分我也是將心比心其實這個部分都是我們內部討論裡邊希望能夠恢復老師的一個名義也包括他的一個薪水但是目前還需要有一些法令跟跨部會上的一些溝通包括法令上的一個修正我們也在尋求有沒有其他的替代法"},{"start":869.599,"end":894.593,"text":"那请尽速具体的提供就是我们的时间要演绎到什么时候让这些真的备受所谓的身心煎熬的老师们能够快速的回复他们的名誉因为当老师不容易真的不容易我们替他稍微再多给他们更多的支持可以吗我完全同意好 谢谢谢谢部长谢谢主席好 谢谢郭玉琴委员"}]}},{"id":"167144","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167144","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851f786dcb4d3660a6de1f8a6d37bdd8b89f6512ba5efdfd30af2c2abc92875f3cc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"09:56:52 - 10:07:57","影片長度":"00:11:05","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:56:52+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:07:57+08:00","duration":665,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.599718750000001,"end":8.114093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.278468750000002,"end":10.054718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.020343750000002,"end":14.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.57721875,"end":24.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.92159375,"end":29.562218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.11909375,"end":31.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.38034375,"end":38.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.235968750000005,"end":46.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.75784375,"end":55.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.22471875,"end":64.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.15159375,"end":79.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.50409375000001,"end":77.53784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.34784375000001,"end":91.86471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.37971875000001,"end":93.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.28221875000001,"end":113.78534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.03221875000001,"end":100.52159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.52159375000001,"end":100.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.51721875000001,"end":101.55096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.55096875000001,"end":101.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.87159375,"end":101.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.49034375000001,"end":117.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.51471875000001,"end":123.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.55596875,"end":135.21659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.18284375000002,"end":139.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.48659375,"end":135.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.19909375,"end":166.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.82159375,"end":152.83409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.43534375000002,"end":198.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.66659375,"end":208.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.30221875,"end":208.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.74096875,"end":211.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.03596875000002,"end":225.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.39721875,"end":221.61659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.00409375,"end":232.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.89784375000002,"end":235.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.94784375,"end":258.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.69659375,"end":252.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.31971875,"end":259.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.70346875,"end":260.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.42909375,"end":263.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.55534375,"end":262.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.07846875,"end":263.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.68596875000003,"end":263.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.75346875,"end":263.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.77034375,"end":263.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.78721875,"end":295.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.94284375,"end":308.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.45096875,"end":310.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.20596875,"end":311.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.32409375000003,"end":313.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.06659375000004,"end":312.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.96096875,"end":361.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.96596875,"end":368.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.93971875,"end":380.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.73534375,"end":384.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.98346875000004,"end":385.27034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.37159375000005,"end":404.87909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.31784375,"end":414.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.31221875,"end":419.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.76784375000005,"end":415.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.08784375000005,"end":424.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.38284375,"end":421.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.37846875,"end":439.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.33596875,"end":424.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.95409375,"end":456.92159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.99409375000005,"end":452.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.92159375000006,"end":489.40596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.89096875,"end":464.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.44784375,"end":464.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.63346875,"end":464.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.57471875000005,"end":527.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.93596875,"end":530.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.83846875,"end":534.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.91784375,"end":542.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.07284375,"end":542.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.39346875,"end":543.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.25409375,"end":564.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.60971875,"end":566.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.69784375,"end":569.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.40221875,"end":627.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.38471875,"end":572.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.3803437500001,"end":572.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.92471875,"end":646.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.87096875,"end":653.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.4565937500001,"end":653.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.3803437500001,"end":656.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":656.85659375,"end":657.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.31221875,"end":657.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.98721875,"end":658.3584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.4934687500001,"end":659.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.5734687500001,"end":661.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.82221875,"end":661.5815937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.572,"end":8.073,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請次長好 請次長委員長 次長好我們今天審查這個藥事法跟藥害救濟法那我看了一下行政院版本那當然這個提案的背景是因為新型傳染病的威脅 低原政治的風險提升藥品的這個供應"},{"start":30.417,"end":46.071,"text":"韌性還有全球這個供應鏈中斷等等我想請問這個次長這些問題是現在才發生嗎當然這些問題長期都有但是因為這幾年包含COVID全球流行以及相關各國的供應鏈的部分事實上影響是真的越來越明顯"},{"start":46.832,"end":64.472,"text":"对啦那我这些都是原因然后呢一百一十二年有上百万的高血脂这个患者使用的力补妥降胆固醇的这个药缺货那这个被药师说是三十年来最严重的那一百一十三年"},{"start":65.433,"end":92.854,"text":"5月我們的書藝也缺貨的非常嚴重那這麼久了我想這個過程已經好幾年了好幾年了那你部長 次長你會不會覺得這個過程會不會拖太久到現在才其實我們這一次的藥事法以我自己個人來講這一次藥事法修法就是去年5月我們在書藝的這個遇到的這個挑戰前年我們遇到這個挑戰的時候我們就開始來做這個修法的草案那送戶你們準備了多久你們準備了多久"},{"start":93.365,"end":117.146,"text":"从2024年5月我们整个在规划到现在中间还经过行政院要去做审议不过也跟我原报告刚刚您提到的降血脂药事实上我们非常多这一类的慢性病它不是只有单一个药品在供应它有非常多同成分同类型的药品我们也希望大家不要有药品的品牌的迷思它只是有类似的药品都是一样的这个问题你们提了很久那就是卡在行政院的意思吗"},{"start":117.574,"end":138.966,"text":"不是 我們其實這個東西未求週延我們過程中也要跟相關的學協會跟相關的團體在做討論對 因為我認為這個問題是非常嚴重的這個處理了一兩年的時間到現在我才看到成果這個不是成果 才開始要做這件事情那我覺得這個部分真的拖太久了我們也先感謝委員願意今天讓我們來做這個相關草案的審查"},{"start":139.466,"end":165.476,"text":"我也希望像我們那個在前陣子提的那個外送員專法這種速度我也希望我們執政行政院提出來版本盡快來通過當然我是支持的那我看到這個西醫這個醫療器材供應資訊平台我發現上次12月10號質詢到現在已經過了一個多月但恢復供應的藥品數目還是掛零"},{"start":166.576,"end":187.884,"text":"那最後還是更新在12月9號那一天那我關心的這兩個缺藥的品項其中屬於必要藥品的是胰臟酵素這個卡麗硝那平台顯示還要再等今年到第二季到4到6月才會恢復供應那衛福部建議的替代藥品是食藥署去年才核定的土耳其藥品"},{"start":188.644,"end":208.073,"text":"那另外供應外科醫師手術進手術前的那3M的乾式刷手液是7月8號我們就公告缺貨到現在要到今年的第一季才能恢復供貨那這跟你們要求的這個藥商必須在缺藥前6個月通報並且有6個月的庫存剛好相反"},{"start":208.815,"end":225.377,"text":"你們並沒有達到這個要求跟委員稍微簡單的報告剛才講卡麗硝這個胰臟酵素的其實我們1月份已經進來300萬顆緊急的所以我們比原來速度能夠提前第二部分其實刷手這邊其實傳統的刷手其實是濕式刷手"},{"start":226.258,"end":249.393,"text":"在裡面刷刷刷可是因為有乾式刷手這種新的所以有些習慣性他們刷了 他們手頭破皮你沒有看到嗎上次我跟你講的時候對 我了解可是因為它的效果我們還是以病人的安全性為最重要所以一定要刷得夠乾淨所以這種過程傳統的跟現在的所以醫師醫療的那一部分希望還是有這樣刷手的"},{"start":249.773,"end":266.589,"text":"那這過程 所以我們就是 什麼時候可以回覆我們目前是在專案的進口的一個徵求當中我們也希望能夠趕快 盡快能夠達成這件事你預計什麼時候我想是近期在第一季以內應該是就可以完成 好啦 我們期待了再跟委員補充這就是我們提到藥品韌性的部分"},{"start":266.969,"end":294.598,"text":"所有的這個醫療程序所需要的不論是藥品或衛材不能只有單一的供應所以像您剛剛所提到因為早年我們進科科房我是那個刷手藝的年代的那我們刷手藝年代之後後來變成乾式刷手還學了一段時間才有辦法在乾式刷手確保它真的有刷乾真的有把它消毒乾淨所以跟我們報告就是藥品韌性的部分事實上就像剛剛您提到的有些藥品不是只有單一個品牌那只要是同成分同樣效果的藥品我們希望能夠多方"},{"start":295.178,"end":310.132,"text":"我們當然是希望效果是一樣但是呢他用出來的副作用不一樣所以我們當然希望說他用好一點醫生也很辛苦他整年刷在那邊你認為他一直用那種舊的那種對他會比較好嗎"},{"start":312.993,"end":336.879,"text":"好啦 那下一題啦這個台美關稅議定後的這個我們上週拍板嘛那我們也付了很大的代價才使得美國下修對等關稅稅率為15%那其中學民藥跟原料等項目獲得美方這個承諾不苛徵對等關稅那這可以看出 看成是符合美國鼓勵以學民藥"},{"start":337.839,"end":361.068,"text":"取代專利期這個原廠藥的政策方向那相較之下專利藥必須配合在每投資與價格調整承受關稅壓力比較大那請問次長先前衛福部評估有約有75項不可替代的專利期的藥品如抗癌 罕見疾病 慢性藥品這個價格可能會大漲或者是缺藥"},{"start":362.108,"end":383.499,"text":"那現在關稅訂了那有沒有考慮過有沒有試算過齁這個要增加多少這個健保的支出報告委員其實因為這些藥品我們過去其實藥品各國之間他其實上基本上就沒有各個關稅的問題然後這次我們也確定說他就是現在他沒有談的是零關他是談起來是零關稅那我們其實所以你說你的意思是說他現在這些專利藥品都是零關稅對"},{"start":385.431,"end":404.711,"text":"药品本来就零关税那这些药品它只要在生产国它价格没有涨起来我们大概就是这个价格那另外的话我们当然在健保这边为什么去年有准备一个特殊就是因应这个谈判我们做了一个预算的准备就是说假设真的有因为这个原因的变动而导致药品的价格上升的话那我们健保在贡礼会这边会做一些调整"},{"start":405.373,"end":431.034,"text":"那我再請問一下 衛福部有沒有什麼引導性的政策可以協助我國製藥廠的這個生技產業這個發展及出口 有沒有提過有 非常感謝委員 其實就像剛剛委員提到的我們國內事實上有非常好的這個我看到你們編列了4年240億的這個新興計畫 藥品任性計畫這個也希望委員可以有機會在大院趕快審那這裡面事實上我們有非常多第一個是我們盤點出不論是在相關的藥品"},{"start":432.174,"end":456.34,"text":"關鍵藥品或者是有一些合一藥品它事實上我們都有國內能夠自己來製成的潛力那過去長期依賴其他國家這些學名藥我發現我們台灣一個問題就是說當然它還是相信原廠的那學名藥我們其實在可以鼓勵我們我們台灣本地的藥廠能夠自己來生產那當然我希望我們這個藥能夠做一些替代藥品這樣就不用多要有仰賴進口"},{"start":457,"end":478.992,"text":"也對 事實上我自己都常常說我不會把它叫做替代藥品事實上這些都是合法而且都是在第一線可以使用的藥品所以說國內事實上過去有時候市場上講到說某一個國外的藥品不要再生產了等等事實上國內大概都類似的同樣成分的藥品都有相近十種以上本來供應就是穩定的所以這邊也是謝謝委員這邊關心這件事情"},{"start":479.452,"end":494.031,"text":"我們事實上都長期能夠跟民眾這邊溝通說事實上它都是同成分藥品同成分藥品我們符合GMP的藥品都是能夠有一定一樣的效果的藥品另外我們健保每年實際支出藥費都超過目標"},{"start":495.333,"end":517.943,"text":"那超出的這個價差會成為下一年度這個要價調整的額度也就是說下一個年度把前一個年度的這個超出預算部分砍回來砍到藥商這個不符合成本那一直退出台灣的市場那當然這個問題有很多啦有問題有很多那我發現就是說我們台灣每年丟棄的這個藥品大概有193公噸那"},{"start":520.944,"end":543.574,"text":"將近5億顆那我們衛福部有沒有針對這個問題有沒有要做一個檢討的改善的一個措施其實一直以來我們都在宣導民眾就是他能夠但是效果不好嘛就是因為效果不好我現在就問說你們有沒有想過有沒有更好更有效的方式我們當然不是一直要提升要價但是我們要減少這個支出嘛是對不對不要浪費啊"},{"start":543.854,"end":569.223,"text":"在相關的藥品規範當然衛福部這邊我們能規範的是第一線醫師的處方能夠照標準減少重複用藥所以在健保雲端藥曆裡面他能夠查到重複用藥的問題避免開立重複的藥品給民眾那我們也其實推動了相關的整合門診有的時候老人家他要看好幾個科我就同樣整合起來讓他避免藥品的重複但是也希望民眾這邊他去飯店領藥他要乖乖的吃"},{"start":570.003,"end":585.473,"text":"我再請問一下我們急診擁塞的問題越來越嚴重那真正的原因並非重症的這個病患加重而輕症的比率過高那當然也增加了我們的醫療的這個負擔那影響重症患者的處置的一個效率"},{"start":586.334,"end":611.294,"text":"那有沒有考慮過目前中醫在急診體系裡面完全沒有角色那是不是當然中醫工會當然有希望爭取說中醫負責急診後段的這個輕症醫療特別適用在這個我們減傷第四級第五級常見的症狀如頭痛這個肌筋膜緊繃暈眩腸胃不適等等的這些症狀風險較低的這種症狀"},{"start":613.796,"end":629.367,"text":"那不需急救設備的這種而中醫針灸推拿穴位的處置方式比較安全那有沒有想過這個部分呢我們衛福部有沒有在做這個規劃其實我們一直都希望我其實也很尊重民眾的就醫習慣"},{"start":630.228,"end":659.151,"text":"那台湾当然因为在中医这边有一些特殊不同的跟其他国家不同的处置方式那我们也知道说很多民众有这样的信任所以我们也很感谢大家其实愿意提供这样的服务那当然在过年期间如果说在廉价期间我们中医诊所愿意开诊的话那我们也非常感谢好啊那你们有没有办法做一个规划你们卫福部回去可以做过一个规划吗我们可以规划我们会跟相关学习会讨论那你什么你给我一个报告好吧书面报告好是好谢谢好多久啊多久"},{"start":659.78,"end":661.63,"text":"委员我们一个月给您报告好不好谢谢"}]}},{"id":"167143","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167143","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8510385d48522442eaac02888e1e08ec371f6512ba5efdfd30a84ce2c86cf23990f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"萬美玲","委員發言時間":"09:46:37 - 10:03:48","影片長度":"00:17:11","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:46:37+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T10:03:48+08:00","duration":1031,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.6890937500000001,"end":12.585968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.28096875,"end":22.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.79846875,"end":31.992218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.73471875,"end":33.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.92784375,"end":39.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.95721875,"end":39.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.97409375,"end":40.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.03721875,"end":68.67846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.16784375,"end":70.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.17596875000001,"end":75.17534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.73221875,"end":82.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.63409375,"end":84.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.65096875,"end":83.79846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.64221875000001,"end":88.45596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.83596875,"end":87.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.28721875000001,"end":92.47221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.35409375,"end":94.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.15534375,"end":101.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.14596875000001,"end":101.34846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.83784375,"end":102.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.12471875,"end":105.80346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.25909375,"end":134.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.50784375,"end":140.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.78534375,"end":146.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.67471875,"end":149.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.80096875,"end":153.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.96471875,"end":161.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.67659375000002,"end":161.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.84534375,"end":162.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.03096875,"end":162.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.31784375,"end":162.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.97596875000002,"end":196.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.49284375000002,"end":177.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.08034375000003,"end":208.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.69909375,"end":260.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.16284375,"end":209.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.45659375000002,"end":219.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.39534375,"end":272.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.25471875,"end":269.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.27159375,"end":270.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.12346875000003,"end":272.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.14034375,"end":272.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.47784375000003,"end":279.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.33846875,"end":273.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.45659375,"end":273.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.43471875,"end":362.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.99096875000004,"end":378.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.51596875,"end":384.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.97971875,"end":432.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.11409375000005,"end":386.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.40784375000004,"end":396.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.58346875,"end":408.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.37659375000004,"end":440.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.31659375000004,"end":443.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.04596875000004,"end":456.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.08221875000004,"end":461.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.15284375000005,"end":464.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.62096875000003,"end":464.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.83596875,"end":465.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.03846875000005,"end":484.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.73721875,"end":475.93971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.90034375000005,"end":491.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.74721875000006,"end":497.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.63659375000003,"end":499.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.00346875,"end":501.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.81346875,"end":503.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.56409375000004,"end":504.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.76221875000005,"end":511.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":511.07346875,"end":512.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.6259687500001,"end":513.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.29659375,"end":516.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.92909375,"end":553.1765937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.7422187500001,"end":524.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.90659375,"end":565.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.00596875,"end":565.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.84971875,"end":566.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.00159375,"end":572.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.8828437500001,"end":624.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.8572187500001,"end":628.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.1897187500001,"end":633.1472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.4465937500001,"end":634.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.5603437500001,"end":683.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.2234687499999,"end":685.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.54409375,"end":686.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.97846875,"end":687.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.1259687500001,"end":690.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.64034375,"end":692.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.3403437500001,"end":706.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":705.62534375,"end":708.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.72596875,"end":710.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.84784375,"end":714.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.61971875,"end":715.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.7165937500001,"end":715.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":715.9697187500001,"end":719.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.88096875,"end":717.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.6609687499999,"end":720.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.38659375,"end":723.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.55096875,"end":725.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.36909375,"end":726.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":726.6853437500001,"end":750.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":751.4578437499999,"end":776.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.4778437500001,"end":758.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":758.49471875,"end":758.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.7478437500001,"end":758.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.3628437500001,"end":765.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":776.7197187500001,"end":779.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":780.44909375,"end":781.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":780.6515937500001,"end":829.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.7578437500001,"end":802.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":802.82534375,"end":802.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.97721875,"end":803.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":829.96034375,"end":848.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":839.66346875,"end":840.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":845.3334687500001,"end":845.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":848.7253437500001,"end":848.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":848.82659375,"end":943.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":943.61346875,"end":947.4778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":947.7140937500001,"end":957.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":957.4172187500001,"end":962.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":959.91471875,"end":959.9990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":960.30284375,"end":999.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":992.53409375,"end":995.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":997.3603437500001,"end":999.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":999.70596875,"end":1019.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1019.8884687500001,"end":1023.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1023.9722187500001,"end":1025.5584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1025.5584687500002,"end":1029.3722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1025.7103437500002,"end":1025.8453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1027.7859687500002,"end":1029.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1030.7390937500002,"end":1031.1947187500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.717,"end":12.34,"text":"等一下我們要先確定上一次的議事錄反正現在有三位委員在現場請問對於上次的會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或是遺漏之處沒有 謝謝現在請萬美玲委員質詢"},{"start":30.325,"end":33.448,"text":"謝謝召委 我們有請鄭部長有請鄭部長委員長"},{"start":39.997,"end":68.264,"text":"部長早千呼萬喚1月12號我們修正教師解聘辦法跟教師成績考核辦法終於出來了但是呢本來以為1月12之後可以解決掉大家心中的很多疑慮很多的問題但沒有想到看到教師團體依然有這麼多的一個意見跟想法那1月25號要到教育部來陳情那部長知道他們為什麼要陳情嗎"},{"start":70.124,"end":98.089,"text":"我知道你知道那所以1月25號那一天你會出來接受他們的陳情嗎我只期待這個教師團體能夠看到我們的努力很多的法令不可能一次到位兼顧台灣所有從兒少全域各個團體上這個我們都了解所以部長那一天會出來接受他們的陳情嗎我覺得他們應該要回到這個學校裡邊把小孩子教得更好"},{"start":98.769,"end":100.813,"text":"所以不會不要傷了我們對他們支持的心我們的努力"},{"start":106.514,"end":134.621,"text":"我想其实这个是应该要一个彼此尊重就像您刚才在讲的是希望回到以前亲师很和谐我们对老师有相当的尊重这个才能变成一个良性的循环现在看起来一直在恶性循环当中但是这个不是靠呼吁就可以改变现在的一个状态的那有没有打算在1月25号那他们准备要到教育部成行之前能够跟这些教师团体来进行沟通不管是部长次长或是署长有没有这样的一个想法或计划"},{"start":134.841,"end":153.358,"text":"谢谢委员的关心但是我想教育部一直在跟教师团体有许多的一些沟通的管道但是我也只能讲教师团体希望把校事会议毁掉所以1月25号之前我们没有打算再进行沟通了是吗"},{"start":155.839,"end":175.384,"text":"應該這麼講的我們國教署或者教育部的同仁事實上包括張料萬堅次長也常常跟他們那個部長我想不要浪費時間講這些啦那過去的努力我也看在眼裡但是現在顯然就是還沒有辦法很完全的打消我們這些教師對於校師會議的一種恐懼恐慌跟不滿嘛"},{"start":176.624,"end":196.221,"text":"所以我希望在1月25号之前部里面能够去考虑是不是能够再跟他们继续沟通了解一下过去是在1月12之前那有很多他们的想法我们在沟通但1月12我们办法新修出来之后他们还有一些想法我觉得应该要再进行一次沟通部长可不可以再给彼此一个机会"},{"start":197.63,"end":209.538,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心因為委員也特別為了這一個召開的公聽會我想大家的想法都是一致的我還是那一句話保持溝通這沒有問題的我們來這邊討論一下這一次教育部你修的法當中最主要幾個點第一個我們刪除掉了匿名檢舉"},{"start":219.645,"end":244.094,"text":"第二個我們進行案件分流再來我們希望制度能夠精緻化但是我們看到教師團體這一次最主要他們的想法是說看到這一切修改但是沒有辦法去對於爛數去解決這種所謂零成本的爛數的問題仔細去看了一下我覺得這問題當中的確還有沒有辦法解決的地方在你看"},{"start":244.814,"end":259.875,"text":"你希望说在校事会议之前能够再来一个所谓的私人小组的会议可是呢我们这个私人小组的会议当中那你为了这个我不知道为什么你要把这个校长能够有意见但是没有表决权这是为什么"},{"start":260.556,"end":275.607,"text":"這我想我們希望學校終究的一個這個辦學的一個責任還是要校長負責但是學校裡邊怎麼樣能夠校長怎麼樣不要工資變成市主我想這一個我們第一個就是希望把這一個"},{"start":276.167,"end":300.596,"text":"因為我們要解決過去動不動部長啦 我跟你說啦這都是你的想法但是你知道嗎光是你這個私人小組會議啊大家都覺得跌床架屋不管是教師團體不管是校長甚至於校長更覺得說哇 短期內他其實要召開兩個會議而教師團體也覺得這裡面還是問題很多包括你現在讓校長沒有表決權教師團體覺得校長變成有權無責怎麼說"},{"start":304.437,"end":321.682,"text":"因為他還是召開會議還是可以表達意見他是有權的但他不用投票變成他是無責的可是校長認為呢所謂的一切責任還是在我是一校之長但是我變成有責無權啊所以你這樣的一個修法搞了一個四人小組的一個會議啊其實是不順故意又逆了掃疫啊"},{"start":322.222,"end":329.407,"text":"所以没有得到大家有一个共识所以人家也说这个叫做新瓶装旧酒但我倒不这么认为"},{"start":352.262,"end":378.419,"text":"就是說你今天讓校長沒有表達意見這件事情看起來沒有任何一個方向的團體是買單的所以我不理解為什麼要做這樣跌床駕霧的事情跟委員我想我們的想法是跟委員一致的我們希望學校發生老師的一些可能管教上的一些這個可能有一些人質疑我們怎麼樣讓最熟悉這個學校的教師"},{"start":379.591,"end":398.684,"text":"代表還有這個學校的家長代表不是啦部長你應該要把今天大家的質詢聽進去喔因為1月12你可能好不容易集思廣益修了吧但是其實有很多的問題還是在裡面嘛你應該要把它帶回去也許你試行一段時間之後還要再調整不一定喔你去想想看今天我想我們幾個委員會有在講"},{"start":399.304,"end":408.549,"text":"你私人小組會議其實做了決議之後你回到校室會議校長還是要表決嘛所以這個權責你怎麼分你剛剛所講的其實你剛剛所講的問題還是會產生嘛然後要在這麼密集之內其實要兩次的會議我真的覺得啦"},{"start":414.552,"end":431.582,"text":"這次再多修了這一個利益良善但是效果沒有達到好那我們再來看喔你這邊有提到說如果私人小組決定要進到校事會的案件我們會再討論一次這個案件是屬於不適任案或者一般懲處案還是說我們就會直接進入調查階段是怎麼樣如果分流基本上就是他可能已經涉及到那個不適任等於說要解聘"},{"start":444.113,"end":461.462,"text":"就是我們習慣過去談的校事會議前面是在做分流因為我們要解決過去大小大小案去以去年為例1300我知道嘛所以我在請教您說到了校事會議之後還需要再討論一次他是屬於哪一類的案子還是直接進入調查"},{"start":462.222,"end":490.973,"text":"直接就進入調查嗎 我想喔這一次這個整個修法完以後啊你還提到了一個我們需要進入到校師會議的就是所謂的教師不適任案嘛那本席也列了一下喔所謂的涉及教師法的不適任案裡面有幾項其中一個在第16條第一項教學不力教學不力也是在當中但是這四個字很抽象可不可以請部長明確告訴我教學不力是指什麼"},{"start":492.796,"end":512.801,"text":"教學不利我想有一些老師就是他連上課都不來上課嘛這是在這個不用講這個就很明確啦那還有什麼叫教學不利譬如說遲到早對礦課礦紙對學生所有的教學裡面完全不用心什麼叫做不用心當然"},{"start":514.381,"end":541.219,"text":"所以部長本席在這裡要提醒你你的教學不利這個部分呢其實就是要進到教師不是人案進到校師會議我覺得還有很多模糊的空間那當然你沒有辦法規範到百分之一百但是也不能夠啊我們再重新修正以後就還是問題百出嘛那所以這個部分我希望能不能在會後啊你也想一想然後也給教文委員會的委員一個報告到底啊你所謂進入到教師不是人案裡面哪幾項是應該在這當中的"},{"start":543.18,"end":562.706,"text":"也讓未來你的調查小組或者是你所謂的這些校士會議也好私人小組也好有一個比較明確的依循好不好所以這個會會要再給我們一下謝謝委員提醒因為確實我們在根據過去的歷史我們現在是在整理一些比較普遍的一些涉及到這個我又必須要有"},{"start":563.246,"end":581.604,"text":"不续聘这一个停聘等等这会后再给我对于案例也希望能够给各地方县市谢谢这会后再给我那另外我想我也是强烈的要求因为我们知道在就是之前12月31号的时候张亮万街次长其实有讲"},{"start":582.205,"end":601.034,"text":"他說1月12的校士會議的這個修法他一定會考入納入冤獄補償但是看起來沒有啊看起來沒有那時候說好的結果出來的時候是沒有我想我們校士團體當然都非常的失望那你剛剛有提到說想這麼做那如果能這麼做早就這麼做了"},{"start":601.314,"end":623.669,"text":"但問題是既然知道這是應該做的我希望部長能不能加快腳步如果你夠積極 如果你夠想要我相信你所謂的跨部會其實是會尊重教育部的所以部長這個部分不管是我們的名譽的回覆實質的加急也好的這些補償我希望能夠更盡速一點能不能歇一個時間告訴我們大概什麼時候我跟委員報告我一直在努力 我氣有不守"},{"start":631.24,"end":650.462,"text":"我希望當然是越快越好好既然沒有辦法借出時間來我們就希望你加緊腳步那最後我想針對這一次教師團體所提到的關於尋堂 觀客等等其實讓他們感受上非常的不舒服就像您說的這平常其實有在做"},{"start":651.563,"end":668.609,"text":"但是你要把它修在文字當中其實未來是不是只要有一個人經過了這個走廊經過了教室外大家都覺得有人要來監督有人要來蒐證我覺得這沒有辦法達到一個尊重我認為這個部分如果原本有在做的話我也希望部長能夠再思考一下怎麼樣做會比較細緻"},{"start":670.53,"end":683.384,"text":"那接下來我們進入到今天的這個營養午餐的部分距離上一次也就是在12月24號討論午餐的專訪其實又快要過了一個月所以部長你有沒有在跟行政院在溝通我們有沒有願板要出來"},{"start":685.666,"end":707.467,"text":"跟委員報告我們的營養午餐一直彭署長這個跟地方在溝通那陳儒剛才我跟這個劉委員報告在營養午餐法大家在希望他有一個專法的時候已經有十個縣市地方本於地方自治他已經在做免費我知道所以現在簡單來講目前還沒有願版對嗎我們寫"},{"start":712.881,"end":719.557,"text":"我們教育部有一個版本教育部有版本所以有布版出來了上次你是建議文字所以現在是有布版了嗎"},{"start":721.581,"end":749.419,"text":"也跟委員報告到底是建議文字還是不版這兩個還是不太一樣我們有建議文字所以不是不版部長修正一下所以還是維持在上次的進度上次其實在審查的時候署長有說專法通過的話地方大概要承擔118億74億相關的補助在44億可能有一些營養師相關的人事上所以我們有在跟地方溝通部長能不能簡單講一下現在署長跟地方溝通的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":752.196,"end":779.53,"text":"就是因为在这一个许多的营养午餐因为各地方因地制宜我刚才跟委员报告过的就是它可能有物价指数等等还有学校规模大小所以它有公办公营有公办私营也有用这个便当的委外的这个便当的一个送整整的机制它事实上在整个单价的成本那谁要来比如说在我们过去的这许多的偏乡"},{"start":780.69,"end":801.975,"text":"好了 部長我不是在講這個東西啦我今天要講的是說這個第一個專法你們有要出來那按照現行來說看一下你說你要這個研擬還有公告相關營養午餐的人力配置的原則嘛看一下是要用原則去取代專法這個部分目前暫時我也沒有意見但是我們就是要把營養午餐辦好嘛"},{"start":803.015,"end":829.176,"text":"那现在呢我们看到各县市已经有很多县市了有的是很积极就把营养午餐免费让所有的孩子都有营养午餐可以吃那有的县市当然不情不愿也是做了这样可见大家都往这个方向去走了那当然也有人提出来说是不是其实布林面应该要让我们全国的这个政策是统一的既然开始有营养午餐免费是不是全国都可以这个营养午餐免费由中央来做这样的一个政策"},{"start":830.177,"end":849.695,"text":"根文報告它確實這個就是屬於我們現在看到全國22個地方縣市已經有20個縣市這一個免費所以它充分說明了它就是屬於地方自治的一個前線但是教育部未來一定會確實把關不打 我提幾個例子給你聽"},{"start":851.457,"end":867.23,"text":"我們以前有那個子宮頸癌疫苗其實這樣講法不太正確就HPV 對不對那在各縣市開始慢慢慢慢就是有的縣市有做那有的縣市可能打國中一年級的女生有的二年級有的縣市可能慢慢打到高中當時是這樣"},{"start":869.011,"end":893.881,"text":"于是后来中央发现说子宫颈癌疫苗HPV这个很重要那后来现在中央甚至于连本席提案的我们连男生现在也可以施打全国一致这是第一个第二个就你了解的我们代理代课教室的聘期以前是从县市开始做嘛对不对有些县市开始觉得说代理代课教室很重要我们就全聘期然后呢中央接手做那中央接手做都做得很好啊"},{"start":894.281,"end":913.874,"text":"那營養午餐為什麼不能這樣做呢所以本席認為啦我們應該全國的這個孩子吃營養午餐要在營養的立足點當然我們可能因為這個食材的成本這物流各方面可能不一致但是我認為喔部裡面是不是應該要下去了解喔那在各縣市的營養午餐的餐費設一個定額那開始要"},{"start":915.955,"end":942.895,"text":"就是一律有中央来做然后全部买单或者是做一个定额以上的来怎么样这个补贴但是我觉得这样的政策真的是应该中央做而不是地方按照各县市的财政的状况不同有的可能吃的好一点有的可能吃的差一点有的这个经费高有的经费低那有的甚至有做有的没有做有的现在做有的可能到财政不好他不做我觉得这样是不对的前面两个例子HPV还有这个带个教师为什么中央在营养午餐这个部分不能做"},{"start":943.675,"end":957.524,"text":"我想教育部確實因為它就是地方知識的地方前線那特別我們看財化法地方事實上在整個經費上它更豐富了所以在這個經費就教育部的一個立場我們未來一定會"},{"start":973.935,"end":1000.842,"text":"那你不能说才化法之后就什么全部通通都给地方做了嘛是不是这样子所以本席给你建议我觉得你应该要去思考一下当然我相信你心里有一个定见那这当然还有这个你还有这个上级给你一些指导可是我觉得其实是不是应该让全国的孩子吃在这件事情上统一这件事非常重要如果我们现在有的现实这样有的现实那样酸法又没有出来我觉得营养物质这件事情未来还是会产生一些问题啦我们一定会定定一个"},{"start":1001.982,"end":1028.228,"text":"包含未來各地方縣市政府在推動營養午餐的許多的那個檢核指標我想這個我們一定會把他這一個跟地方來共同建立這樣一個機制我們確保學童吃的健康吃的安全有助於他未來的這個發展口號要呼籲但是我們動作也要落實來做好嗎請委員相信我我一定會這樣做我一直很相信你所以你一定要好好表現謝謝委員支持謝謝好"}]}},{"id":"167142","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167142","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851f5b4e9560a103619e1f8a6d37bdd8b8974637afa3742303eef8a19ad8d4174405ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"09:44:55 - 09:56:44","影片長度":"00:11:49","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:44:55+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:56:44+08:00","duration":709,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.620968749999999,"end":8.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.56971875,"end":9.430343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.15971875,"end":13.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.661593750000002,"end":30.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.86159375,"end":41.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.150968750000004,"end":45.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.14596875,"end":59.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.992218750000006,"end":60.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.40971875,"end":61.455968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.000343750000006,"end":65.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.345968750000004,"end":64.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.05034375000001,"end":74.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.51721875,"end":75.00659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.97284375000001,"end":77.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.74471875,"end":77.90909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.60534375,"end":82.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.49096875000001,"end":83.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.03909375,"end":83.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.29221875,"end":93.33284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.19784375,"end":98.80034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.30284375000001,"end":99.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.94784375,"end":102.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.31471875000001,"end":103.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.06971875,"end":113.51534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.35096875,"end":116.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.50221875000001,"end":119.70846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.07971875000001,"end":121.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.59846875000001,"end":123.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.57721875000001,"end":125.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.31534375000001,"end":124.90596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.83409375000001,"end":149.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.13034375,"end":153.72846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.72846875000002,"end":160.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.95971875,"end":187.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.14096875,"end":191.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.15721875,"end":191.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.93346875,"end":197.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.60784375,"end":198.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.27846875,"end":201.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.52284375000002,"end":201.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.46784375000001,"end":211.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.85471875000002,"end":213.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.20471875,"end":212.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.97659375,"end":221.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.41409375,"end":221.54909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.70096875000002,"end":243.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.04784375000003,"end":244.34721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.07721875000001,"end":244.49909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.56659375,"end":265.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.04846875000004,"end":280.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.08846875,"end":282.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.57346875,"end":289.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.49221875,"end":290.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.38221875,"end":291.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.73659375,"end":293.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.50846875,"end":301.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.81534375,"end":303.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.99596875000003,"end":331.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.83471875000004,"end":310.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.85159375,"end":311.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.00346875,"end":311.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.79909375,"end":323.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.86096875000004,"end":334.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.03346875,"end":386.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.56034375,"end":338.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.18096875000003,"end":363.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.06346875,"end":428.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.48721875,"end":453.54659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.58034375000005,"end":459.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.97596875000005,"end":494.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.13471875000005,"end":497.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.69159375000004,"end":529.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.84159375,"end":511.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.74409375,"end":513.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.59534375,"end":520.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.7078437499999,"end":532.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.28534375,"end":534.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.7409687500001,"end":534.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.39471875,"end":556.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.28159375,"end":569.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.95471875,"end":581.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.67596875,"end":570.9797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.7122187500001,"end":598.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.3003437500001,"end":609.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.4209687499999,"end":609.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.45471875,"end":626.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.02596875,"end":626.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.1103437500001,"end":626.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.1272187500001,"end":643.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.6922187499999,"end":629.2490937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":643.7109687500001,"end":645.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.3815937500001,"end":647.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":646.2422187500001,"end":651.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.7478437500001,"end":652.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.94159375,"end":655.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.45596875,"end":666.8972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.7678437500001,"end":660.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.6359687500001,"end":680.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.1147187500001,"end":699.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.32096875,"end":682.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.90659375,"end":688.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":699.0947187500001,"end":705.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.00159375,"end":701.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.10659375,"end":704.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.3428437500002,"end":707.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":706.51971875,"end":708.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.0047187499999,"end":708.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.03846875,"end":708.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.07221875,"end":708.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.4265937499999,"end":709.16909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.057,"end":7.28,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請次長還有署長來 次長 署長委員好"},{"start":15.51,"end":39.481,"text":"我首先要請問重大食安問題就是這個感染破油冒充頂級感染油的事件這個從他進口到現在大概長達700天這麼長的時間那他這樣的一個就是感染破油他包括他有添加這個化學性的物質去萃取那第一個我就要問的是到目前為止他從2024年進口"},{"start":42.262,"end":64.417,"text":"出產到現在已經賣出多少 數量有高達多少委員 謝謝委員的提問針對這個橄欖破油其實橄欖油它的命名裡面就有一項是橄欖破油所以橄欖破油其實是本來就可以上市本來可以採用的我現在問的是數量破油變成是高級的混沖所以它接的"},{"start":65.157,"end":92.651,"text":"跟委員報告 因為他接了這件事情之後呢他是核的 但是他接了同業綠素進去去混充成高級的他就是所謂的假冒假冒參委 這個是屬於詐欺的行為數量有多少這是他 確確的數量容我回去你們還沒有掌握 這已經好幾天了耶這速度太慢了第一個我要講的是為什麼我們主管機關這麼晚才知道而這一個不是由食藥署集合的吧是檢調吧 有人通報檢調是不是"},{"start":93.271,"end":119.303,"text":"我們主動在12月份的時候通調到檢調是你們通報的那你們是因為查核還是有人舉報是我們去查核的過程當中就在市場查核的時候覺得是不對的一個狀況之下然後呢跟檢調就合作所以12月份1月總共有三次的通報我們其實在部裡面都有掌握那過去你們針對這個橄欖油的查核每一年都有做嗎是的我們每一年都有做橄欖油的查核的事項"},{"start":120.157,"end":148.019,"text":"所以到去年才發現對 因為但是它是2024年就開始2024年的查核沒有發現對 跟委員報告因為查核的時候其實不會是每一項它是抽查的但是抽查的過程中如果我們發現過去因為同業率數之事情已經很穩定下來之後它查核的密度跟強度我們是持續在做但是它的強度跟密度就會減少但是抽查中了之後我們覺得不對立即跟檢調能夠去共同的所以在這個過程中"},{"start":148.379,"end":162.131,"text":"但是查核到之後 你針對市售的感染油你要不要再加強你的頻率跟密度報告委員 這是必要的我們針對這個重新有這樣子的不肖的廠商做這件事情 我們會努力的因為其實國際上過去這個感染油被混充假冒的這個就是在食安事件裡面很常見的那過去台灣曾經爆發過因為強力的稽查 後來人不敢現在感覺是你們鬆了之後"},{"start":174.502,"end":190.729,"text":"業者又開始蠢蠢欲動所以我要求你們應該要在這個部分再去查核另外一個我要問的是他進口的這麼大量的這一些感染有破你們有去登錄有去追蹤他的流向嗎報告委員在我們追蹤追溯的流向裡面這都是清清楚楚的"},{"start":191.209,"end":210.527,"text":"都有都有因為在整個的追蹤在邊境進來之後我們的查了系統所以它是有登錄在你的追溯系統我們的追蹤系統它的進貨都很清楚它的數量都有在裡面對 都很清楚只是它現在做的事情是把同月利數去做另外一個販賣的點那原則上這個油是可以的只是同月利數那它可以做什麼用"},{"start":211.388,"end":229.598,"text":"就是這些感染破油可以做什麼它也是我們一般的油品是可以符合我們現在上市的規定但是它必須要正向揭露來自於感染破油而不是所謂的粗榨感染油這個就是我要講的你們如果從源頭管理當它大量進口的時候你們應該要加做一個動作這些大量進口破油的"},{"start":229.898,"end":244.094,"text":"它有可能就會混充成高基油所以像針對這樣的業者其實你們應該是要有查核的機制才對就是監督流向我覺得這個才是從源頭的管理我希望未來這一塊你們應該要去強化好不好謝謝委員指導我們一定會"},{"start":244.735,"end":259.897,"text":"那接下來問今天的有關於這個藥品的相關的草案的修正我請教一下市長因為現在修法裡面特意去強調定期審報但是我們看到過去缺藥的問題其實很多他是退出市場"},{"start":260.718,"end":288.319,"text":"那所以你的這個定期申報可以解決退出市場的這樣一個問題嗎報告委員其實像如果是因為退出市場他有很多不同的原因啦那其中有一些部分他是這種像剛剛委員這邊提到的有些是他廠商自己的機制的問題那那個如果是全球全球的那個廠商的問題其實那這一類的你要怎麼去那個其實我們因為很多這種他都是已經是我們本身有學名藥了所以我們本身有學名藥的時候我們事實上是希望"},{"start":288.699,"end":302.913,"text":"不會有斷貨缺貨的問題你都是可以接軌的每一樣都可以嗎我們事實上在每一個藥品事實上請我們現在這個這次修法裡面請廠商要能夠提早讓我們知道就是說我們能夠儘早的來確定那像這種要退出市場的要多早讓你知道"},{"start":305.029,"end":334.188,"text":"報告委員我們對於所謂重大緊急的一些藥品的部分我們是希望能夠定期我們定期過去如果有這種情形提早半年告訴我但是如果不可規則我們是一個月但對於整體藥物我們最近希望在藥物認証計畫裡面做什麼PEER CenterPharmaceutical IntelligenceLogistics and Storage Center希望能夠進一步的能夠監控調度我們希望在這樣子的頻率我們也在公協會裡面做了很多的溝通"},{"start":335.169,"end":353.305,"text":"如果最準應該每一天都有動態的我覺得是不可能的但是如果能夠及時的讓我們在所以在不同的藥物底下我們可能還需要去做細分再容我們在我們的特別病的辦法裡面去做一些些溝通完確立我覺得有些非常關鍵性的藥物要非常密集的"},{"start":353.985,"end":374.034,"text":"相對的如果他不是那麼關鍵性的藥物等等他可以拉開時間所以我們最長的我們本來預計是差不多半年短期的話大概是一到三個月但是這些事情呢一定要整體我們藥物評估之後跟整個業者因為供應跟醫院跟健保跟整個醫療系統裡面要共同溝通所以我們目前呢沒有確確確定說"},{"start":375.775,"end":390.146,"text":"一體試用全部都是幾個什麼時間但是因為不同藥物跟不同需求之下我相信它對於時間上的要求也業者其實藥商們他們都非常非常支持這一件事情我要告訴你就是說它沒有那麼簡單透過簡單的修法你說定期申報你所有的問題都迎刃而解就像我剛剛講的"},{"start":394.97,"end":417.205,"text":"所以你未來的你怎麼樣去強化那個密度跟溝通跟掌握去理解然後這個動態他必須是個動態式的管理所以接著我就要問說未來衛福部你們有一個藥物韌性推動專案辦公室這個專案辦公室跟剛剛署長你講的你未來要更積極的去掌握這一些藥品的這個動態跟動向有什麼樣直接的關係嗎"},{"start":418.586,"end":435.554,"text":"因為他的成立會去強化解決這個藥品缺藥的問題嗎因為既然是談到藥物韌性嗎我覺得應該是要有一些關聯吧有還是沒有跟委員報告其實我們去增加藥品供應韌性當然剛剛委員所提到缺藥避免缺藥這是其中的一環"},{"start":436.334,"end":455.106,"text":"那更重要的一件事情是我們會發現說有一些藥品它幾乎長期都依賴進口那我們自己國內事實上國內的藥廠需要我們用國家的力量來支持國內的藥廠能夠自給自足來提供我們國內的藥品需求所以也包含在我們這次的藥物潤性這個計畫裡面那鼓勵跟支持我們自己國產的藥廠"},{"start":456.147,"end":472.623,"text":"增加我們國內的這個供應的韌性那既然如果要成立這一個藥物韌性推動專案辦公室我又有一種既視感看到少子女化對策辦公室因為這個辦公室看起來我要今天要問兩位的就是"},{"start":473.203,"end":494.564,"text":"有沒有聘專人在這一個辦公室我們如果講一個office一個辦公室就是要有專人坐鎮在這邊每天辦公在處理這樣的一個事情但目前為止我看到你們的架構裡面你比較像是委員會你不是個辦公室我沒有看到你們哪邊設專人還是你有設專人設多少人是不是可以回答"},{"start":497.733,"end":516.887,"text":"跟委員做進一步說明的確在藥物韌性推動的專案辦公室我們目前在人力上面以及整個架構部分我們持續在研擬的當中我們希望的是他能夠落地有沒有專人的設置我們是希望有專人設計整體的內涵的部分我們其實持續跟"},{"start":517.968,"end":533.401,"text":"衛福部我們部長這邊做一些構思所以還沒有定案還沒有完全的定案因為這整體的來講現在在食藥署面整個我們的要民主的協作底下因為我看到的你們現行的架構你們是社委委員會是的"},{"start":534.542,"end":555.977,"text":"所以委員會就是委員會 辦公室是辦公室如果你是委員會就不能叫辦公室因為過去少子化對策辦公室已經被委員問出來說根本就是空的啊 也沒有專人啊就是打個倒倒 就是不同的部會然後誇一個名稱叫辦公室啊這樣不行啊 所以我今天要問你的就是說你這到底是辦公室還是委員會啊看起來很像委員會啊 不是辦公室啊"},{"start":556.457,"end":581.04,"text":"我们其实是目前是委员会的规划所以在未来的运作的部分如果有需要有专人等等的我们想持续的研议目前的确是在委员会的一个架构底下来运行那就不能叫做办公室我希望大家是很务实的处理事情你框一个办公室会让大家认为说你是拼了专人然后要全力来推动药物任性这项计划这才叫专办"},{"start":581.881,"end":598.196,"text":"如果沒有專人這不叫專辦你充其量就是有個定期的委員會來處理相關的事務我覺得不要誤導好不好那這件事情我們的要務任性我們的這個缺藥的問題我們希望這個你們編了很龐大的預算這個是要好好做的"},{"start":598.456,"end":625.472,"text":"跟委員報告這裡面其實蠻大的一個部分在經濟部就是說我們這邊盤出來有需要支持或者是要特別來培植的相關的藥品的產業那這個部分我們要麻煩經濟部來給我們協助好那最後問一個問題春節快到了就是說春節期間最近這個流感其實有上升的一個情況那過去都是跑大醫院你們今年有特別一個計畫就是要診所它的這個開診率那過去只有一成你們現在希望提高到幾成"},{"start":626.132,"end":643.214,"text":"我們希望能夠盡量提升目標呢目標其實跟我們報告就是說診所這邊因為放假放得很久我們這次的計畫裡面希望能夠讓診所至少包含診所這邊還有相關的醫院用UCC的方式來開診至於目標的話我們當然希望能夠比過去再更高一點"},{"start":643.795,"end":664.055,"text":"多少兩成三成正在努力希望你們沒有設目標那另外一個你們要注意那個藥品是不是跟得上包括我有藥品這個部分我們已經全部盤點過了對那藥局會開嗎診所開藥局有跟著開嗎藥局這邊很多連鎖藥局他們會開啦會開所以現在診所比較缺那診所比較缺因為畢竟診所很多他可能就是一位醫師跟幾位護理師"},{"start":664.796,"end":679.957,"text":"我希望你们这一块因为三四部长没有来他就说去开跟院长报告这样一个专案我希望你们是不是只有开会这个真的是要严正以待因为我有看到最近真的这个感冒的人数其实在上"},{"start":680.297,"end":707.723,"text":"所以也希望就是说也谢谢委员这边的垂询我们就希望现在也正在跟民众宣导就是很多慢性病他可以提早领药了他的慢签好再来的话很多慢性病的病人因为现在距离农历过年还有一年的期间他这段一个月的期间没有一年一个月的期间这段时间好民众他对于他慢性病他应该要就医及早就医的部分能够尽量先来我希望你们持续加强宣导不要让大家看到春节急诊大庸塞的这样情况在希望大家都能够开开心心过年避免到急诊区好谢谢谢谢"}]}},{"id":"167140","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167140","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8510ddc48b89247e146c02888e1e08ec37174637afa3742303e69e402d4bcb505e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"09:29:15 - 09:46:32","影片長度":"00:17:17","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T09:29:15+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T09:46:32+08:00","duration":1037,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.4697187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.27471875,"end":9.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.809093750000002,"end":16.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.46721875,"end":17.867843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.00284375,"end":72.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.31909375000001,"end":76.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.07784375,"end":91.45971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.03346875000001,"end":98.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.37846875000001,"end":98.63159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.73284375,"end":130.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.64346875,"end":142.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.72596875000002,"end":151.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.44596875000002,"end":153.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.90159375000002,"end":161.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.31909375,"end":155.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.90471875,"end":162.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.14909375000002,"end":214.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.36471875,"end":217.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.65534375000001,"end":221.95409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.59971875000002,"end":225.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.15221875,"end":228.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.36221875,"end":235.03221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.22659375,"end":234.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.03221875000003,"end":238.00221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.45784375000002,"end":259.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.38284375,"end":277.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.50221875,"end":285.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.01159375000003,"end":291.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.33971875000003,"end":305.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.02534375000005,"end":308.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.27409375,"end":311.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.54784375,"end":356.22846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.96096875,"end":313.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.90346875,"end":357.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.84846875,"end":370.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.38659375000003,"end":385.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.94221875000005,"end":380.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.38846875,"end":385.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.84409375,"end":389.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.32034375,"end":393.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.38284375,"end":396.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.44596875,"end":413.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.35471875,"end":415.22346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.22346875000005,"end":422.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.85534375000003,"end":422.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.24346875000003,"end":425.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.17971875,"end":427.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.69846875,"end":427.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":427.47471875,"end":445.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.13846875,"end":449.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.54721875,"end":449.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.58096875,"end":450.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.52596875,"end":451.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.58909375,"end":499.95284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.00346875,"end":473.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.73221875,"end":483.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.27596875,"end":484.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.29284375000003,"end":484.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.71471875000003,"end":484.73159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.10096875000005,"end":499.53096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":499.95284375000006,"end":522.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.56096875,"end":530.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.71596875,"end":535.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.70284375,"end":561.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.1709687499999,"end":563.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.50409375,"end":578.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":577.6284687500001,"end":583.9228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.75034375,"end":590.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.1497187500001,"end":601.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.2490937499999,"end":623.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.38096875,"end":622.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.35971875,"end":627.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.2578437500001,"end":633.8897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.3959687500001,"end":645.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":643.5928437499999,"end":668.3484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.5734687500001,"end":660.0459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.9822187500001,"end":664.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.4328437500001,"end":683.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.7553437500001,"end":686.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":684.6328437500001,"end":686.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.8603437500001,"end":687.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.34971875,"end":690.5053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":687.68721875,"end":688.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.1172187500001,"end":691.5515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.42909375,"end":707.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.54659375,"end":696.7322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.76596875,"end":696.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.9709687500001,"end":713.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.3328437499999,"end":714.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.53096875,"end":715.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.08784375,"end":733.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":733.7053437500001,"end":742.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.8528437500001,"end":736.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":743.37471875,"end":744.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.03284375,"end":766.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":765.29534375,"end":766.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":767.9109687499999,"end":769.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":769.90221875,"end":769.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":772.28159375,"end":772.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":772.5178437500001,"end":784.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":782.59221875,"end":782.6428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":782.6428437500001,"end":783.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":783.9422187499999,"end":784.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":784.97159375,"end":786.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.4228437500001,"end":786.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.4734687499999,"end":795.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":795.4172187500001,"end":798.8428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":796.80096875,"end":796.8178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":796.8178437500001,"end":796.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":796.9697187500001,"end":797.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":799.43346875,"end":801.3403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":801.57659375,"end":804.1584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":804.49596875,"end":805.1709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":805.4072187500001,"end":806.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.60096875,"end":809.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":810.11534375,"end":811.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.6340937500001,"end":818.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":819.0590937500001,"end":819.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":819.83534375,"end":820.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":820.93221875,"end":844.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":844.60784375,"end":873.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":874.7634687500001,"end":877.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":878.2397187500001,"end":888.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":888.8034687500001,"end":889.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":889.32659375,"end":899.1140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":899.7722187500001,"end":915.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":915.6853437500001,"end":917.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":919.1615937500001,"end":920.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":920.8997187500001,"end":937.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":937.42034375,"end":939.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":939.2934687500001,"end":965.0109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":965.39909375,"end":981.9028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":982.15596875,"end":983.7759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":983.4890937500002,"end":986.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":987.43784375,"end":988.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":987.47159375,"end":990.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":988.88909375,"end":993.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":993.96846875,"end":1000.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1000.83659375,"end":1003.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1003.1822187500002,"end":1022.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1022.8078437500001,"end":1030.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1029.67596875,"end":1030.0472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1030.3172187500002,"end":1031.8697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1031.7009687500001,"end":1032.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1032.7472187500002,"end":1035.46409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.289,"end":9.21,"text":"好 謝謝主席請鄭部長好 部長委員好"},{"start":16.553,"end":40.087,"text":"好 部長早我們今天特別要針對的是營養午餐的部分做詢答因為在您的報告當中有特別針對到說這一次又要針對的是營養的基準食材品質跟食品的安全跟管理的相關制度要作為有效的尤其是現在我們正在做一個立法的動作在學校的公餐跟飲食教育的條例當中"},{"start":42.568,"end":46.531,"text":"這邊可是看到的是在115年1月6號之前看到的是只有10個縣市是免費現在20個縣市免費根據你們報告當中如何落實監督跟把關其實是非常重要的 對不對"},{"start":59.019,"end":76.714,"text":"好 那當然就想說問到這相關的機制是什麼我們再繼續看到目前教育部有針對這些食材 人力 偏鄉學校 中央廚房 弱勢這邊等等等等可是呢 這邊我就想看到尤其在食材部分看到的是說上個年度看到的是在"},{"start":78.46,"end":97.754,"text":"農業部呢他針對說現在的這個張Q制度吧張Q制度上面因為使用國產食材已經到達98.98是好事情可是呢農業部已經說了在115年就是現在開始的這個部分的錢是由地方政府的由統籌分配管的要應該自己來去來去支付對吧"},{"start":99.475,"end":118.344,"text":"可是這個地方我們看到的是齁在這個情況之下看起來是的確沒有錯可是怎麼樣的確定說他們因為統籌分配管有非常多的項目我們可以看看包括哪些項目齁這邊項目當中呢很多的是在於說你看到他還有這些一般的補助款啦基本設施水利啊等等啦景銷啦還有"},{"start":119.444,"end":129.935,"text":"國中小學水電費等等等等可是你怎麼能夠保證他一定會收得到呢尤其這麼多錢的東西他一定能夠保證到說他能夠落實到張Q食材的試用"},{"start":131.117,"end":151.517,"text":"謝謝委員我想第一個委員非常關心協同的這個營養午餐他們是食的安全包括飲食效益我心存感謝但是陳儒委員剛才所提的在這個我們營養午餐還沒過全國22個地方縣市已經有10個地方縣市本已地方自治的前者他已經免費"},{"start":152.498,"end":166.076,"text":"那這個我們在訂定的過程現在已經又有變成20個地方縣市除了新北市跟嘉義市我重點是你怎麼樣就落實啊我先跟委員報告這充分反映營養午餐確實屬於地方"},{"start":169.059,"end":196.036,"text":"地方自治的前者我想我们尊重地方那第二个三张EQ怎么样确保这个也跟委员报告我们所理解22地方县市都已经把三张EQ这一个放在年度的一个编列在年度的预算里边所以这一个先跟委员做这样一个补充说明那第二个就是我们当然有这个登录平台我们有许多的这一个监控的一个机制包含这一个"},{"start":197.637,"end":212.807,"text":"這個請專家協助如果地方有許多的專業上的一些營養的一些食材等等這個內容或者怎麼樣來開這個菜單等等我們事實上都會給予協助如果地方需要中央來"},{"start":213.427,"end":228.619,"text":"所以你們還繼續在協商但是張Q已經確定了他們各個地方政府都已經以今年來講目前我們所知道的22個地方縣這個115人好 這是好消息表示他們地方政府也是負責任的嘛對不對所以地方政府對市的安全跟品質他們事實上因為每一個家庭"},{"start":229.48,"end":245.294,"text":"在意他每一個小孩子是不是能夠食得安全 食得健康好 那我們繼續看可是現在一個問題是當營養午餐的費用由地方政府大部分都來支付的時候現在看到的是每一餐的價格是不一的喔"},{"start":245.894,"end":260.182,"text":"你看看喔 台北市是60到70喔 可是在高雄市呢它在之前是38到55這一部分 你要做 你們自己報告當中說你們要做減核評估指標啦 定期檢視這些部分那請問一下 如果因為"},{"start":261.202,"end":285.016,"text":"價格上面是關鍵啦那如果你價格上面沒有一定的這樣的差距連六都裡面高雄市跟台北市都有這麼大的差距的話你的價格上面是不是給個Range是合理的不然的話呢尤其等一下還處理到的是還有廚餘的問題那廚餘的問題是不是也請部長或是其他部會來做一下說明因為這部分你的部分涉及到的是這相關的經費使用不夠的話怎麼辦呢"},{"start":286.296,"end":312.045,"text":"我想我非常同意委員的觀察這個數據就是說我們地方這個營養午餐我們重點還是要吃得健康嘛這個品質嘛但是因為地方各地方縣市的那個物價指數各地方的它反映到了一個怎麼樣的一個這個合理的一個價格你對價格上面不care就對了不是不care我要跟委員讓我多一點講"},{"start":314.486,"end":335.888,"text":"我的意思是說在這裡邊有一些我們觀察他雖然是這個全美名會在過去呢他訂了一個價格跟家長收的是比較低一點地方還是會有補助中央還是有一些補助嘛所以他可以吃的比如說他可能訂55塊最高但是他實際上公餐是一餐可能80塊或者70塊"},{"start":337.449,"end":356.022,"text":"就是說他怎麼樣去確保品質那委員所關心的這也是我們這個各地方縣市政府當他營養午餐要免費提供的時候許多民間團體包括家長團體也希望說你們不要訂太低喔因為整個物價整個品質因為價格反映一定"},{"start":356.983,"end":384.749,"text":"有一定程度的一個品質的一個保證所以我想這對地方政府也是一個提醒我覺得這一個也是我們教育部會來努力跟地方要提醒他們怎麼樣確保我們實的安全那因為你說檢核指標你還是沒有說出來我這樣想的你說跟物價有關係那是不是可以做你們的指南這邊做一個指南是說應該是說要做CPI的部分要隨時的這個你要去做一個檢核的指標各縣市要達到這樣的一個目標可以嗎"},{"start":386.149,"end":393.229,"text":"是 謝謝委員提醒我們當然我們一定會做那你們這個所謂的定期檢視跟資訊揭露的部分會呈現在哪裡"},{"start":394.434,"end":415.617,"text":"你們未來會呈現在哪裡我們現在有食材登錄平台嘛那另外一個我們當然也希望說從中央的觀點我們怎麼去督導各地方縣市他們營養午餐的辦理情形我們當然也必要的時候也在透過一些公開媒體裡面能夠給以所以你們定期三個月一期還是說一個學習一期那我想"},{"start":416.358,"end":445.339,"text":"這一個我們更細部的我想我們一定會跟地方來做一些討論至少每年一定會公佈一次每年公佈一次至少因為你這樣做的話我覺得已經章秋的部分已經解決掉了所以包括450億的產業大概可以獲得結束了我們另外高中以下飲食教育的部分高中以下學校健康飲食指導內容及規劃的部分你們預計適合時要完成因為這是飲食教育的部分"},{"start":446.315,"end":461.277,"text":"我們已經頒布了是不是詳細請你請這個我們副署長113年的時候就已經有修正並且已經有頒布所以就繼續那你們剛才說還延擬延定這部分是繼續在持續性滾動嗎"},{"start":462.578,"end":480.442,"text":"这个部分是可以持续性滚动那基本上呢我们在饮食教育的部分的话12年国家课纲里头对饮食教育它基本上就已经有我知道对充分的一个内容那不少学校也把饮食教育当他们的校定课程"},{"start":480.822,"end":504.138,"text":"有看到部地校定课程都有对没有错对都有对那饮食教育的部分这个部分我想不管是中央或是地方或是学校其实都是非常的重视的我们也希望饮食教育可以能够深入到每一个孩子对这能够改善我们的学生的健康是是好谢谢我们继续再往下看就是大家所关注的校事会议"},{"start":504.958,"end":527.895,"text":"那這邊呢 我看到的是教育部有改變那這個改變當中 我想你可能更需要的多一點的溝通協調不是只有一次性的 可能持續性的到未來都是這樣子那有一個很大的特色是說呢建立親師的生的溝通跟預防機制但是有一個問題是教育團體呢 教師團體他就提到說那你也是我想詢問的是 尋堂的關課的時機是什麼時間啊"},{"start":530.917,"end":551.299,"text":"這部分啊 平常就在做嗎還是因為這個才去做變成是一種監督啊 送證啊這平常就在做 課綱裡面也明定那是老師 這個校長跟主任們等等在透過巡堂 觀課裡面去協助老師或者有許多偶發的事件的一些協助處理所以我們希望回顧到包含剛才"},{"start":552.66,"end":576.046,"text":"科委員所提我們怎麼樣回顧到過去親師能夠更多一份的信任讓校園的教學能夠減少一些不必要的一些困擾我想這就是我們所談的我們要回顧到當等於說過去我們其實校園是一團和氣的老師相信校長校長相信老師家長也支持"},{"start":576.886,"end":601.426,"text":"老师的一个教学所以是本来就有只是说你们这个地方就把在开宗明义上面就是第一个部分拿出来大家不要忘掉初中只有亲师合作小孩子才能够有更好的一个教育品质很好很好我这个部分要跟大家讲就是教育部长那时候我跟副署长有提到教师法这一部分你们只有处分人却没有负责修复专业"},{"start":602.347,"end":621.138,"text":"就是怎麼樣把老師的輔導回到專業他是把他處分到等等等等的這一部分才是最重要的因為教師真的有問題各種的像評鑑評估計時什麼都有但是教師法就是沒有我當初也跟大夫有說了這部分強烈建議把教師法的修法加入到改正陪伴復歸專業的制度選項 您覺得呢"},{"start":623.439,"end":644.7,"text":"我想这个我们当然可以来考量来努力看怎么样来修让它更完善但是也跟我们报告我们现在有国教辅导团有学科辅导社群还有许多的教师的社群它怎么样假设我们发现它教学上有需要精进的"},{"start":645.16,"end":668.042,"text":"部長你要請你注意到教師法是關於教師權益的你如果給他申屆 停聘 解聘但是卻在這過程當中卻沒有像依照大學的這個部分給他的 他如果受到這些處分了但是必須要給他回覆這才是教育的本質啊你這些團體等等沒有說在法規法規上 規定上 辦法當中可是他的權益上面在教師法才是權益的部分啊是吧"},{"start":668.502,"end":691.39,"text":"但是我要跟委員報告如果他已經到那一個所謂的解聘的這當然我們大概就他必須要離開學校但是屬於學校考核的這一個部分我們確實怎麼樣來協助他改正陪伴然後復歸這個專業我想我們努力的方向是一致這是非常重要尤其是"},{"start":692.489,"end":714.566,"text":"部長 您本身是大學教授 校長 您都知道大學就是有這個部分是嗎 好 那我們繼續往下看還有在第五條當中現在提到說的被害人跟其法定代理人這部分這部分怎麼預設老師有罪啊你把老師 這個調查都還沒有出爐究竟預設老師是加害人嗎這部分真的要修改啊是吧"},{"start":716.687,"end":742.568,"text":"是 好 那現在我們看到的冤案的補償機制這部分那你們在演繹 最後沒有公布出來我接續的柯市民委員繼續下去就是在說那現在的情況是 我知道是他的薪資部分就給他還回到但是學術佳績的部分就還在跟人事行政總署 對不對但是恢復名譽這部分你要跟 我現在想請問的是跟全序部人事行政總署是哪一些規定哪些"},{"start":743.464,"end":766.433,"text":"行政命令跟委員報告我們確實在目前的法令人事總署裡邊相關的人事的法規它確實是這樣的就是說如果涉及到有一些紛爭就進入到這一個這個停聘後來恢復的時候那只有本訪因為從人事法規這些年來所以你還不知道名稱是什麼你的法規名稱還不知道是什麼嗎"},{"start":773.99,"end":798.62,"text":"教师法还有教师待遇条例涉及到两个法然后因为也有公教横评的问题所以这个部分我们还在研究因为涉及到法律那这个部分是不是可以请事后给本级可以的我跟委员报告我自始至终在讨论校师会议的时候我常常跟我们同仁讲将心比心因为今天我们都不是当事人"},{"start":799.5,"end":828.518,"text":"如果我們是當事人被污蔑或者這個這個等於說被冤枉了將心比心你可能比現場的老師這一個對體制的一個抱怨或者反抗可能是更大的所以我要跟委員報告從自始至終設身處地將心比心一個很簡單的同理心這也是我們的訴求我們希望能夠跨部會跟"},{"start":829.238,"end":844.476,"text":"这一个包含人事总处包括财主单位包含全序部我们都希望本以这样一个初心来进行沟通希望我们台湾一直在进步我们许多的法令怎么样与时俱进这也是我们在努力的"},{"start":844.636,"end":873.265,"text":"好 我肯定部長你這時候站在教育部這個教文委會當中把一個大家長的一個心態說出來了 沒錯我們教師就是很清清白白的用個萬事思表或是一日為師終生為父的這樣一個態度在面對事情你講出來這個態度 好 我覺得給你肯定 最後我們看到說 好啦這個各界的修法團體等等我覺得你能夠有人 因為學生跟家長團體還是有些這樣的一個意見啦 不過我想你的溝通還是都不嫌多 繼續做好嗎"},{"start":874.95,"end":887.423,"text":"我們會持續努力我們希望哪一天就是說當家長親師合作回到我們過去所看到的校園的那個溫馨的一個場景那也許那就是校士會議要退場的時機"},{"start":888.868,"end":917.435,"text":"好 那最後我想要再看一下這部分喔 有關於對於教師在全面加薪喔 但是對專輔教師的這部分 因為他是他是沒有分 他是輔導學生的部分上下課時間 他在超時工作又是拿不到終點費喔 大量的文書工作是在另外的門 但是卻沒有一個實現這部分喔 那沒有獲得教育部的照顧 那請國教署這邊是不是回應 這部分專輔教師的他的一個這樣子的話 終點費有沒有涵掛到他們"},{"start":919.192,"end":937.061,"text":"我想我们会后我们内部也事实上也在考虑怎么样来对这个庄胡老师有一些更大的一些支持但是我们当时的一个教师的一个加薪或者这个终点会我们是希望一体试用的"},{"start":937.521,"end":964.735,"text":"对但是好像都是专辅教师那详细的我想我们再来看怎么样有一些相关的一些法令比如说还有一些老师比如说他谈代理代课的可能各地方政府在实施上是不一致的我们当时的想法是专任教师跟代理教师所有的终点会包含本土老师他大部分都是用这个等于说兼课的一个方式那怎么样把这些"},{"start":966.436,"end":986.527,"text":"這個終點會能夠一致這是我事實上昨天也特別交代彭署長這我們起心動念所有的老師只要他上課國小 國中 高中不一樣的終點會因為他授課時數長短時間長短不一但是我們希望他的標準這個應該都是一致的好 那這樣的情況什麼時候大概會出來你們研議會多久"},{"start":987.546,"end":1010.369,"text":"我們這個禮拜會溝通因為基本上就所知道國教署人士這個教育部的人事處也都在協助做這個事情這個禮拜我們會簽給人總我們也會透過溝通希望能夠建立共識好 我們看到教育部有在做這樣的尤其是國簽署這部分有在做內部的溝通而且我剛才問就一個禮拜的這個答案就非常好"},{"start":1010.769,"end":1035.286,"text":"希望因为教育部长跟国协所的所有人员或是包括其他部分的官员的一个合作让我们教师真的感觉到说他们是受到尊重过去有一些状况有一些不连结的可以解决掉但是这才是最重要的因为教育是国本就是很重要就一起努力谢谢 谢谢委员指导好 谢谢好 谢谢刘淑冰委员谢谢部长"}]}},{"id":"167189","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167189","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f85193d599e101f11b7275d69df13e4e8eda37d2db32b336acc6f6611687e07821165ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"13:04:40 - 13:31:36","影片長度":"00:26:56","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T13:04:40+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:31:36+08:00","duration":1616,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.83034375,"end":17.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17.61471875,"end":18.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":23.06534375,"end":23.504093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.80784375,"end":25.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.95096875,"end":26.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.047843750000002,"end":29.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.13596875,"end":31.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.70534375,"end":34.236593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.35471875,"end":53.119718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.625968750000006,"end":72.89721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.33596875,"end":75.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.83346875000001,"end":78.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.27596875,"end":85.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.24534375,"end":87.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.98346875,"end":92.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.04159375,"end":102.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.54659375,"end":106.83284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.88346875,"end":106.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.98471875000001,"end":107.00159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.00159375000001,"end":107.27159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.79471875,"end":108.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.86221875000001,"end":109.16159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.68909375000001,"end":113.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.84909375000001,"end":111.87846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.96284375,"end":112.04721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.53221875000001,"end":118.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.49346875,"end":121.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.83471875000001,"end":123.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.55159375000001,"end":125.96909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":126.59346875000001,"end":129.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.49596875,"end":131.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":131.60534375,"end":131.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.09471875,"end":133.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":133.61346875,"end":137.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.74409375000002,"end":135.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.96721875,"end":138.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.01346875000002,"end":143.14784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.10971875,"end":156.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.69409375,"end":160.51221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":162.06471875,"end":166.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.39346875,"end":168.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":168.39284375,"end":178.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.44596875000002,"end":180.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.50909375,"end":183.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.56346875,"end":184.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.49159375000002,"end":186.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.02284375000002,"end":188.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.89596875,"end":189.99284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.14471875,"end":191.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.88284375,"end":197.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":198.53159375,"end":202.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":202.05846875,"end":203.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":203.72909375,"end":204.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":205.12971875000002,"end":210.17534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.51284375,"end":211.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.21721875,"end":220.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":215.92971875,"end":216.04784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":216.19971875000002,"end":216.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.26221875000002,"end":222.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.61221875,"end":224.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.02534375000002,"end":229.31159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":230.52659375000002,"end":233.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":234.30659375000002,"end":237.25971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":237.42846875,"end":239.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":240.06096875000003,"end":244.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.87034375000002,"end":245.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":246.03471875000002,"end":247.67159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.94596875000002,"end":250.67534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":247.85721875000002,"end":248.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.75534375,"end":255.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.71659375,"end":256.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.13846875,"end":257.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.88096875,"end":259.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.24346875000003,"end":265.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.84596875,"end":272.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.27096875,"end":274.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.82346875,"end":277.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.62034375,"end":285.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.67409375,"end":309.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":309.72096875,"end":310.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.04159375,"end":319.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.55909375000005,"end":330.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.11846875000003,"end":333.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.48096875000005,"end":342.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.58909375,"end":353.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.98409375,"end":356.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.75159375000004,"end":364.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.18909375000004,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.46596875,"end":392.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.86409375000005,"end":395.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.26034375,"end":397.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.63971875000004,"end":398.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.71971875,"end":400.42409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":401.79096875000005,"end":403.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.66409375,"end":403.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.68096875000003,"end":404.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.71471875000003,"end":403.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.00159375000004,"end":404.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.01846875,"end":404.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.05221875,"end":404.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.08596875,"end":404.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.23784375,"end":404.28846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.28846875000005,"end":404.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.72721875,"end":407.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.47784375000003,"end":412.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.91159375,"end":413.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.02534375000005,"end":416.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.13034375,"end":417.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.75471875000005,"end":420.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.02846875,"end":422.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.61471875,"end":426.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.18784375,"end":428.68971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.09471875,"end":431.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.13221875000005,"end":434.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.78159375,"end":438.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.43096875000003,"end":440.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.02971875000003,"end":451.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.75784375,"end":454.91346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.38596875,"end":457.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.49534375,"end":459.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.12784375,"end":463.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.16096875000005,"end":464.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.12284375,"end":467.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.02534375000005,"end":469.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.20221875000004,"end":473.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.67846875000004,"end":475.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.68659375000004,"end":480.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.82534375000006,"end":485.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.86721875,"end":481.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.49971875000006,"end":483.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.99721875000006,"end":502.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.87221875000006,"end":504.17159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.13346875,"end":507.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.52534375000005,"end":514.7353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.25846875,"end":545.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.6340937500001,"end":541.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.1228437500001,"end":556.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":557.59784375,"end":560.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.12471875,"end":564.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.48284375,"end":568.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.9209687499999,"end":572.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.86534375,"end":579.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.24409375,"end":583.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":584.31096875,"end":595.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.10659375,"end":604.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.66221875,"end":606.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":606.77159375,"end":607.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":608.1553437499999,"end":609.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.01159375,"end":610.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.29409375,"end":626.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":627.2747187500001,"end":630.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":630.9028437500001,"end":633.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":634.21034375,"end":637.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":637.72034375,"end":638.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":639.10409375,"end":642.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":643.1709687499999,"end":660.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.81409375,"end":658.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.82659375,"end":662.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.15096875,"end":678.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":678.0515937499999,"end":680.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":680.48159375,"end":683.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":681.89909375,"end":682.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":683.73846875,"end":688.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":686.0334687500001,"end":686.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":687.3328437499999,"end":705.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":706.1147187500001,"end":708.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":709.32096875,"end":715.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.1553437500002,"end":722.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.5678437500001,"end":747.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":748.4540937500001,"end":756.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":756.87471875,"end":760.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":761.34659375,"end":764.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":764.5022187500001,"end":791.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":764.9578437499999,"end":765.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":792.12659375,"end":817.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":818.18159375,"end":826.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":827.32784375,"end":833.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":833.9765937500001,"end":852.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":852.6909687500001,"end":854.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":855.5090937500001,"end":856.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":857.50034375,"end":858.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":859.0190937500001,"end":860.5715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":861.2297187500001,"end":864.0984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":864.41909375,"end":873.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":875.3372187500001,"end":877.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":879.4209687500002,"end":892.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":893.5790937500001,"end":895.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":894.23721875,"end":900.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":900.9365937500002,"end":901.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":902.0503437500001,"end":911.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":911.93909375,"end":914.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":915.16221875,"end":932.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":932.6784687500001,"end":935.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":936.39096875,"end":945.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":944.01846875,"end":944.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":945.45284375,"end":947.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":947.95034375,"end":952.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":953.0803437500001,"end":956.7759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":956.52284375,"end":962.5303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":963.0534687500001,"end":969.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":966.9853437500001,"end":967.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":969.6684687500001,"end":975.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":974.3259687500001,"end":974.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":974.8659687500001,"end":989.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":989.2434687500001,"end":994.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":996.90471875,"end":997.6809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":998.1028437500001,"end":999.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1001.0390937500001,"end":1001.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1001.8828437500001,"end":1003.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1005.44346875,"end":1006.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1006.9284687500001,"end":1015.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1016.4797187500001,"end":1017.2390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1017.8803437500001,"end":1019.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1020.0572187500002,"end":1021.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1021.8628437500001,"end":1031.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1032.08909375,"end":1033.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1034.4178437500002,"end":1036.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1037.0503437500001,"end":1048.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1039.64909375,"end":1040.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1048.8628437500001,"end":1073.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1073.58471875,"end":1082.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1083.1865937500002,"end":1085.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1085.53221875,"end":1118.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1119.3159687500001,"end":1127.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1119.3497187500002,"end":1119.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1128.5972187500001,"end":1129.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1129.94721875,"end":1132.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1132.5797187500002,"end":1133.5584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1134.16596875,"end":1139.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1139.7684687500002,"end":1152.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1152.57659375,"end":1181.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1159.4109687500002,"end":1159.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1182.0234687500001,"end":1186.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1186.19159375,"end":1210.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1211.1497187500001,"end":1212.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1213.20846875,"end":1222.5740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1223.0972187500001,"end":1227.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1228.39596875,"end":1246.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1247.12721875,"end":1252.3922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1252.6790937500002,"end":1265.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1266.11159375,"end":1271.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1272.96284375,"end":1275.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1276.6922187500002,"end":1277.7215937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1278.3628437500001,"end":1279.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1279.6622187500002,"end":1280.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1281.43409375,"end":1285.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1286.0240937500002,"end":1319.6053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1319.95971875,"end":1322.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1322.6765937500002,"end":1324.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1325.5115937500002,"end":1331.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1332.73409375,"end":1345.0528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1345.4747187500002,"end":1358.1140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1358.2490937500002,"end":1358.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1358.63721875,"end":1367.7159687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1367.8678437500002,"end":1380.3553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1380.6253437500002,"end":1398.1078437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1399.3734687500003,"end":1412.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1413.3628437500001,"end":1415.7928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1416.11346875,"end":1426.7447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1427.2172187500003,"end":1428.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1429.3097187500002,"end":1431.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1432.02659375,"end":1433.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1434.11909375,"end":1438.3209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1438.47284375,"end":1453.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1454.23409375,"end":1472.2059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1472.67846875,"end":1477.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1477.87596875,"end":1520.4178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1521.4978437500001,"end":1532.0953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1531.1165937500002,"end":1538.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1539.0140937500003,"end":1544.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1544.4140937500001,"end":1557.1040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1557.6947187500002,"end":1561.2215937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1561.40721875,"end":1568.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1568.71409375,"end":1568.8322187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1568.8322187500003,"end":1568.8997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1568.8997187500001,"end":1568.9334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1569.1022187500002,"end":1571.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1572.6965937500001,"end":1573.9790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1574.3672187500001,"end":1579.2272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1579.69971875,"end":1582.0453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1582.4165937500002,"end":1587.6478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1587.6647187500002,"end":1602.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1598.9203437500003,"end":1599.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1600.9790937500002,"end":1613.0953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1602.9703437500002,"end":1604.4047187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1613.0953437500002,"end":1617.0103437500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":15.224,"end":18.147,"text":"謝謝主席 有請原民會主委請正置位"},{"start":26.051,"end":52.11,"text":"今天終於等到圓明會的業務報告我也很驚訝就是這麼長的一段時間一直沒有看到圓明會來做業務報告那每一次圓明會來做業務報告的時候因為機會很難得所以我大概都會找十個議題來質詢那今天也不例外因為時間的關係也希望主委就是簡單的回答好嗎"},{"start":52.85,"end":72.582,"text":"好 談到原民會我覺得其中有一個很重要的任務功能就是要展現原住民文化的軟實力這也是我們國家的軟實力那我們常常聽人家說或自己說原住民的文化有多好多好"},{"start":73.402,"end":101.794,"text":"但是我們往往看不到對等的相稱的聲量這個是我們很遺憾的部分所以呢我先就世界原住民族運動會來說你看看這個圖片這個照片都不是我拍的是我call你們園民會的照片這個照片其實好多人看都覺得哇怎麼有這麼棒的運動會請教主委"},{"start":102.714,"end":122.615,"text":"世界民族運動會你們辦完了之後有沒有開過檢討會有那檢討會可以給我一份報告嗎會會會那我跟您說我重整一下我自己的臉書或者是其他的社群軟體齁我大概聽到的都是第一為什麼總統沒有來請問下一次還會辦嗎"},{"start":126.618,"end":136.199,"text":"我們希望能夠兩年辦一次兩年辦一次那就是116年對那總統會來嗎我們希望總統我們特別的空總統的時間"},{"start":138.035,"end":159.61,"text":"第二個我聽到最多的就是說你們的宣傳很不夠好多人看到影片照片之後都嚇一跳說怎麼有這麼好的活動我們怎麼都不知道不是只有原住民這麼說連非原住民都這麼說所以請教一下這個宣傳經費多少"},{"start":162.113,"end":176.163,"text":"大概是400萬400萬的宣傳經費那為什麼會搞得這麼多人都不知道因為這是第一次辦理所以我們總是有一些就是這個速度上沒有跟上這個部分我想我們會作為日後辦這個活動的檢討"},{"start":179.502,"end":203.023,"text":"那我就想知道了齁可是你剛剛已經有講了你說這個會延續性辦理是說兩年會辦一次是那請教一下會有這個科目嗎像明年要辦的話今年你們有列入科目要做預算了嗎明年度的預算我們會希望能夠把它就是說編列進去經費規模"},{"start":205.168,"end":228.911,"text":"大概也就是跟今年的這個世界人民運動會大概是8000到8500萬那請教一下今年大家都說原來這筆經費是從原文會出來但是你們也有原語會甚至你們還有文化發展中心那你們覺得你們這三個單位未來是輪流辦嗎還是由原民會主辦嗎還是怎麼樣"},{"start":230.56,"end":250.614,"text":"我跟委員報告這麼大的活動而且是就是說要動用這麼多的人力我想當然是園民會主辦我們不會把這個責任往外推因為辦得好辦得不好最後發包單位啊還是對是園羽會發包園文會發包還是文化中心發包園民會園民會發包然後動用你們所有的人力"},{"start":258.027,"end":276.757,"text":"那我是希望說 既然是一個可以展現原住民文化的軟實力它的效益一定是非常大的所以這個部分我真的是很高興 為什麼我跟主委講 我其實在五年前我就質詢過了"},{"start":278.683,"end":298.72,"text":"但是我沒有想到在114年底竟然能夠成型辦出來然後看到三個月準備這樣的一個規模如果你讓我打分數已經及格了啦但是我們總覺得我們希望會更好更完整那希望你們把它好好的規劃"},{"start":299.801,"end":318.05,"text":"在下一次我們看到的時候希望真的是不是只有讓我們的國人震驚啦我希望能夠震撼到全世界可以嗎可以好謝謝齁那繼續我也要關心其實我在110年的時候3月即將滿5年"},{"start":319.671,"end":342.337,"text":"我就有質詢什麼呢我很關心你們文化發展中心有一個國家樂舞團為什麼我這樣子笑來你注意聽當時是怎麼樣子因為我們的組織文化中心的組織法寫著國家及原住民族樂舞團的設置規劃管理"},{"start":343.657,"end":364.233,"text":"然後文化部有一個國立傳譯中心他的組織法也說會有這個聘用戲曲展演專業人員最多187人所以我在這個地方就有點想笑了國立傳譯中心的組織法說是聘用戲曲展演專業人員可是他們卻是法定預算"},{"start":365.256,"end":391.712,"text":"然後呢文發中心組織法說是國家及原住民族樂舞團的設置規劃可是你們一直都是用計畫人力勞務採購所以我在110年就有問了那主委說會朝國家樂舞團的目標來推動而且還答應我說我要在一個月內提供我評估報告這個也是你們園民會很嚴重的問題我每次質詢說我要報告報告幾乎沒有拿到過報告"},{"start":393.133,"end":421.513,"text":"就不把我們的質詢當一回事所以我想請教一下 到底到底你們有沒有朝這個方向努力好 謝謝好 謝謝委員長期對這個議題的關心那麼這個議題就是我們南盧瓦約舞劇團要納入國家級定位的這個目標那麼一直是我們這幾年來重要的工作那麼主委在當初時任主任的時候就提出了這個計畫"},{"start":422.654,"end":448.911,"text":"那麼這個計畫我們在本會裡面已經做過很多次的討論那麼現在我們就是準備如果本會這邊對我們所提出的草案那麼大家就有共識的話就要準備送出本會然後進入一個正式的審議那請教主任您預估什麼時候這個國家級的樂舞團可以成立是 跟委員報告那麼上個禮拜我們也邀請行政院的人事長就是在主委的支持之下"},{"start":449.611,"end":469.605,"text":"邀請任市長來我們園區那麼他也體認到我們園區這個樂舞劇團的重要性那麼也點出了一些方向那麼這個重點如下第一個那就是說希望國家對於這個舞團那個資源的挹注要穩定那麼第二個也希望這個舞台舞團未來的定位要維持它一定的自主性"},{"start":470.265,"end":484.825,"text":"那麼至於達到這個目標的路有好幾種所以我們後續會跟本會還有跟行政院人事總署持續討論我也希望到我的辦公室跟我報告因為我關心這一題很久了我覺得為什麼我要這樣講"},{"start":486.067,"end":507.409,"text":"我們主委在擔任文化發展中心主任的時候做了一件我很感動的事情啦除了申請那個綠珠雕琢計畫你們在去年也成立了新的歌舞展演場之外我比較感動的是他針對每一組去做歌舞劇特別是從冰唯雨組開始做起"},{"start":509.359,"end":530.22,"text":"這個讓很多的賓威語族很有尊榮感甚至讓很多的年輕人回流我覺得這個是很重要的一件事那其實國家級的樂舞團他鼓勵的不是這些舞者而是鼓勵所有原住民的這些藝術家歌舞展演者我們也能夠成為國家級的表演者"},{"start":530.94,"end":555.946,"text":"這個就是我講的 每次都說原住民文化多好多好聲量不相稱 我們看不到國家對他們尊重的做法這樣可以嗎 好 謝謝那另外一個部分 我也是要特別提這個也是很多年前 為什麼呢因為我在客家公共傳播基金會看到他們有做一個預算就是成立一個國立的客家兒童合唱團"},{"start":557.642,"end":582.878,"text":"一年編1050萬 現在多少我不知道那他們做什麼事呢 他們跟兩廳院合作所以每一年都會讓客家兒童合唱團上去表演所以我幾年前也關注這個問題什麼時候我們原住民也可以有但是我關注是因為國際間唱原住民歌曲的團隊越來越少最主要的原因是我們沒有做出編曲"},{"start":584.423,"end":605.952,"text":"如果我們有編曲全世界的管弦樂團合唱團他們都可以來演出我們台灣的原住民各族的歌謠但是因為國家 原民會沒有帶頭做所以現在反而是客家啊 菲律賓啊哇 國際間反而是他們的歌越來越多現在都沒有人在唱我們的歌了所以原民會要重視這個問題那當然合唱團也好"},{"start":610.069,"end":633.77,"text":"或者是青少年管弦樂團也好我是希望說園民會可以來主動去規劃甚至是一些跨校的團隊組織可以來補助因為我看到教文處長站出來 處長您有什麼看法謝謝 委員您這個建議非常好其實因為我們學校原住民孩子善居在全台灣各地"},{"start":634.25,"end":657.535,"text":"如果你要組成一個單一的國家的原住民管弦樂團他會有那個往返集訓孩子們的交通等等各方面問題所以在現階段要成立一個單一的團隊可能比較困難那我的建議是說我們可以鼓勵我們區域性的來組成這樣區域性的管弦樂團東區北區南區這樣他們就近可以來做練習未來也可以演出所以我們"},{"start":659.035,"end":682.807,"text":"會來籌劃那鼓勵各區來組隊我希望教文處可以主動來規劃背後不單單是訓練我們這一些孩子們的音樂專長更重要是背後要有編曲要有曲譜這個對於我們的國際能見度跟文化傳承都是很有幫助的好不好這個部分其實我們在五年前就已經做了我們跟國家交響樂團已經有"},{"start":684.087,"end":707.977,"text":"把水陸組的股票改變成交響業會後我會把這個CD交轉謝謝齁我就是一直在關注這個問題希望也給我一個報告那再來我要關心那個部落公法人的計畫齁我記得我在這一屆的第一個會期齁也就是113年的3月我院會總質詢我有跟院長說部落原住民自治"},{"start":709.537,"end":738.237,"text":"還沒有共識之前至少部落公法人要先上那也很謝謝主委那在院長的一個支持之下你也開始要推動但是我現在有點頭痛因為我記得我質詢的時候是說應該找一些需要部落公法人工具的部落來辦理我們才有辦法檢討成效而且應該要有一個所謂的座談會也好或者是說明會"},{"start":739.117,"end":760.138,"text":"在全國各地讓大家可以去聽一聽 辦一辦但是我發現很多參與的部落也沒有什麼現在要用到部落公法人工具然後我也沒有看到他們的一個檢討說明會那我不太曉得說到底現在要怎麼做"},{"start":764.606,"end":779.259,"text":"那跟委員報告就是針對那個114年的四個師範部落工法人我們已經有針對他們的執行一年後的成果逐一做一個檢討會議然後我們也邀請一些相關的學者專家去幫我們檢視他們過去一年的執行的狀況"},{"start":780.501,"end":790.362,"text":"來當作後續要辦理的一個機組那15年的部分我們會朝向就是說希望能夠把這個透過這樣的一個實踐的經驗把法規伸出來的這樣的方式來持續辦理"},{"start":792.202,"end":798.403,"text":"我的意思是說我們要在做中學啦像這個部落公法人你們應該要研議法規的鬆綁讓事辦的部落有明確的工具去執行他的法人行為嘛例如去跟廠商締約或者是說開戶等等我覺得這個部落公法人他很重要嘛甚至有的部落可能他們已經告訴我說"},{"start":818.277,"end":844.845,"text":"既然以前的村民大會已經變成部落會議為什麼村長不要變成部落會議主席也有人這樣跟我講所以我覺得其實各個部落各個族群都有不同的想法我們希望透過事辦就是要去抓到各個部落事辦的一個成效跟檢討我們才有辦法往前推進但是因為我一直都沒有拿到這些報告我也沒有看到你們"},{"start":845.665,"end":872.637,"text":"那既然這樣子講 我希望給我好 不好意思 按鈴了 第五個那個文件站的趙服員 我先這樣講我這幾年碰到很多文件站收站了第一個 評鑑不加退場第二 理事長換人了 他們說我們不接了第三 也有人是招不到人了 所以就退場了但是他們有一個共同的問題來找我們就是資遣費發不出來啦"},{"start":875.353,"end":877.154,"text":"你叫我怎麼去協調這種事我只是想問當政府撥款給一個協會協會用這個錢去聘用造福員然後他收了之後可能因為辦不好或者是不可抗力的原因他沒有去支付那些造福員的資遣費啦然後重點我算給你看50歲以上的造福員現在佔90%"},{"start":901.061,"end":913.986,"text":"有大概374位28%即將400位 即將要退場要退休 借齡退休而且50歲以上的竟然佔那麼多啦"},{"start":915.915,"end":934.883,"text":"這個以後衍生出來的一堆問題即將在未來的幾年就會陸續發生然後我們接棒我們交給協會去做這些事大家也都清楚知道啊地方的社區發展協會又不是盈利單位甚至很多運作也不是很正常結果原民會把這樣的重責大任交給他們"},{"start":936.611,"end":961.71,"text":"可以跟委員報告喔 那我們的資錢費是可以用行政管理費去做支應的只要說非規則與執行單位的部分 他們都說不夠他們說那一點點的 他們說他們付不出來那沒關係 那縣府我們也有一些行政管理費縣府也不管他們 對我們都開過協調會 如果有個案的話我們可以來看一下所以你的意思就是說 未來協會衍生出的這些大量的資錢費 原民會都會買單"},{"start":963.344,"end":969.019,"text":"我們是可以從那個 對 我們會協助但是都會從我們的行政管理費所以那些計畫負責人都不用扛責任"},{"start":970.104,"end":993.993,"text":"如果是規則以他們自己 如果他個人因素說我這個人不要的話 那可能行政大會是要我是希望 園民會應該要會同勞動部 釐清三方契約下的雇主責任歸屬提出制度性的解決方案然後呢 也要去研議文件站的營運模式過去這些具備穩定財力跟專業的這些社福機構我不曉得 為什麼他們要退場"},{"start":1001.952,"end":1015.577,"text":"這個 原民會要重新去檢討了解我的意思齁所以我覺得這個部分 請原民會好好檢討也給我一個報告 也希望到辦公室報告齁那再來就是元寶地的貸款終於上路了齁"},{"start":1016.564,"end":1030.573,"text":"我相信很多的事情萬事起頭難但是我相信也很多人在觀望看這個結果所以我希望園民會能夠每一年的提出檢討報告"},{"start":1032.328,"end":1046.396,"text":"對的事情對的政策我希望原民會就要堅持我相信政府也不會不管好不好那儲蓄互助社呢也是我知道原民會多少年來也都在幫忙補貼利息"},{"start":1049.317,"end":1072.909,"text":"讓我們的族人到儲蓄互助社可以用比較低的利率或者是也可以用元寶地比較簡單的方式可及性的方式去拿到一些金融但是我其實要講的就是說因為你們在去年的10月27號發布一個新辦法然後又說之後的10月27號以後要用新辦法讓他們措手不及"},{"start":1073.749,"end":1079.895,"text":"我已經有在上上個禮拜幫忙開協調會齁那這個協調會其實很有共識喔因為我們發現原來是一場誤會啊因為對原民會來講現在你們的放款放到五千萬之後哇 你們的錢暴增你們要補貼給儲蓄戶住社的錢暴增"},{"start":1093.647,"end":1118.295,"text":"但是對儲蓄互助社來講其實他也沒有賺到錢他在意的是你利息補貼讓他們可以用較低的利率給我們的族人所以他們說建議你們園民會只要去做放款的總額管制其實就可以解決雙方的問題所以主委這個部分我是想說後面可能你們還要有一個明確的公文再發下去可以嗎"},{"start":1119.935,"end":1136.628,"text":"好 謝謝那再來也是一個問題就是原住民知識體系這個計畫中長城110到114年結束一樣的問題他們也是突然拿到一個公文說以後不辦了所以我們又要開協調會但是開了協調會發現又是誤會一場"},{"start":1139.89,"end":1158.857,"text":"那彼此之間也找到共識那我細節我就不細講我只是要表達希望原民會以後對於新的措施新的辦法請提早一點啦而且一定要做好溝通檢討避免衍生這些不需要的誤解好不好"},{"start":1159.457,"end":1180.522,"text":"好那這個部分我也希望就是要把那個確定的部分發給各個城辦的大學因為很多知識中心很擔心他們的大學會對他們有所誤解所以這個公文一定要發好不好好謝謝那再來就是我比較關心的原住民族教育的一個中長城的發展"},{"start":1182.122,"end":1209.671,"text":"今年115到119新的中長城計畫出來了那我很高興就是我過去長期要求的園民會跟教育部一定要有一個最上位的思考如果我們最上位思考是原住民自治人才的培育就應該要知道要培養哪一些人才既然知道要培養哪一些人才就應該主動積極去找大學的優勢學校科系讓他們來承攬這一些專班"},{"start":1211.471,"end":1226.477,"text":"這個才是正辦殺手不管你看現在一堆原專班開了但是沒有什麼原住民自治人才的相關的重要科系開了結果少子化之後一間一間又關閉"},{"start":1228.487,"end":1246.247,"text":"所以我覺得原民會一定要跟教育部一定要長長的去討論最上位的思考那麼公務人才的培育就是原住民自治人才的培育那未來原資中心全國各大專業校也都開設了那他未來他的角色是什麼"},{"start":1247.188,"end":1271.161,"text":"他要輔導我們的學生啊 你看我們的原治中心喔越開設越奇怪因為我們的出債學率 高等教育跟一般的大學生是落差達百分之三十八錯學率喔 跟一般全體的大學生差百分之三十八國小差不多 國中差不多 高中差不多竟然到大學是斷崖式的表示我們的大學生很可憐啊"},{"start":1276.718,"end":1303.11,"text":"他們去哪裡了去打工了去哪裡了所以這個部分我真的希望原資中心的角色要去重視他所以我希望教文處長在這邊我相信這方面你其實很有想法也很多心得那未來在我們的原住民教育的中長城計畫跟考選部 權序部 人總教育部 園民會可以一同的來努力好不好"},{"start":1305.151,"end":1331.623,"text":"那這個最後就是說關於跨溝通的平台我希望原民會你們也要找農業部啦因為上次你們跟農業部一人出一半的錢全國營養午餐推廣小米結果呢只有推廣三十幾間學校因為找不到小米為什麼原住民一百多年前台灣的主食小米為什麼淪落到今天這個地步"},{"start":1332.799,"end":1357.677,"text":"沒有人種小米 是不是因為我們的山坡地我們沒有辦法種是不是因為我們的森林法 野保法 水保法 山坡保育利用條例 種種的法令限制了我們的土地的利用所以我覺得這個部分 農業部我也常常跟他們溝通我希望原住民的產銷班都能夠去重視小米種不出來 沒有人種小米這件事可以嗎 主委"},{"start":1359.018,"end":1385.395,"text":"可以 謝謝那最後就是關於我們的這個姓名之亂因為大法官釋憲之後我們的原住民身份法做了最新的修法所以新法要去讓舊法的人趕快在1月5號前辦理我要跟主委說我的辦公室接了300多通電話南部服務處台北辦公室每一個助理都在負責接電話我們也已經接到很會回答問題了"},{"start":1388.817,"end":1397.803,"text":"所以所有的問題都解決了我現在只是要說 請護鎮所當時我有要求要個別通知你們有去跟護鎮所溝通了嗎"},{"start":1400.514,"end":1426.339,"text":"那其中有一個我還沒有辦法解套現在講給你聽就是姓名條例第15條有宣告這個經過判決確定的人要執行完畢滿三年所以有一堆人要等三年後改名但是我覺得很奇怪因為他不是要改名他的漢名還是漢名他只是要並列增加原住民的名字而已羅馬拼音 原住民族文字"},{"start":1427.299,"end":1453.492,"text":"你們可不可以含釋一下免得他們三年後才能夠變原住民包委員 這個部分是屬於內政部主管的法規這個部分我們再跟內政部協調一下我的意思是說 原民會要主動去積極協調不是由立委每次開協調會還有一些衍生的費用以及所有的系統 健保卡 身分證 護照 駕照一堆人跟我們說 都打不上去啦"},{"start":1454.312,"end":1471.477,"text":"而且很多人還拿到手寫本所以這個蠻困擾的其實很多年前我們就有開始去要求但是進度有點慢希望園民會再跟各部會來去做溝通協調外交部內政部很多那再來就是最後一個禁法補償"},{"start":1472.917,"end":1496.328,"text":"關於禁法補償 很多的我們的族人就是因為他們很擔心會列入所謂的收入所以在社會救助法這個地方我們很多年前也開過協調會當時要求原民會只要做出不具經濟效益他們就願意來認證但是他們現在就是回覆說要把它列入不動產"},{"start":1497.148,"end":1519.391,"text":"所以我在去年的11月我也開過協調會那目前衛福部是說他們社會救助法會做修法但是也請原民會在禁法補償條例也要做修法所以這個部分社助法也好禁法補償條例也好我個人都已經提出修法反本那不曉得原民會這個部分有沒有積極的來處理"},{"start":1521.83,"end":1543.407,"text":"這個部分在12月17號我們已經邀請華為部還有衛福部以及財政部來做一些跨部會的一些協調那我們持續會在追蹤好不好這個應該要積極來辦理啦主任很關心那安息日會我要謝謝你們因為他們禮拜六做安息什麼事也不能做也不能參加考試所以他們很少公務員"},{"start":1544.508,"end":1570.735,"text":"因為國家考試都放在禮拜六他們幾十年來陳情也很難啦但是我要誇獎園民會園民會你們基於族人的愛護幾年前你們有同意他們的三育聖經學校作為考場然後送完夕陽之後就開始考試但是他們有接到通知說115年說不准了啦我想聽一下原因是什麼"},{"start":1572.725,"end":1591.572,"text":"跟委員做說明在前次我們有去拜會陳介嶺校長陳校長他也特別提出如果是在安息州那是沒有問題就以他們提出的條件作為考試場合這是第一個我們有辦到那麼第二個就是如果不是非安息州他們是開放外面"},{"start":1591.932,"end":1610.007,"text":"那這個週次我們就不安排那個考場那這一次上次的問題是因為他們整個的系統上出了一些的小錯誤所以意思就是說其實還是可以的對不對好 謝謝我想替族人去著想是園民會的責任啦那謝謝 也請園民會繼續努力謝謝主委 謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"167188","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167188","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f85167ed91df4aefc409c02888e1e08ec37137d2db32b336acc6739c7deb8e227a905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"13:35:27 - 13:42:23","影片長度":"00:06:56","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T13:35:27+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:42:23+08:00","duration":416,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.3590937499999995,"end":7.3209687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.92846875,"end":9.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.758468750000002,"end":22.187843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.52534375,"end":28.465343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.92096875,"end":53.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.91284375,"end":78.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.32596875,"end":56.359718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.98909375000001,"end":94.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.98784375000001,"end":87.17346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.59846875000001,"end":96.92721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.14659375000001,"end":109.14471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.26284375,"end":117.19409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.53096875000001,"end":123.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.60659375,"end":133.00596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.51784375000001,"end":124.78784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.61346875,"end":133.91721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.38971875000001,"end":136.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.76909375,"end":138.49034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.72659375,"end":140.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.54471875000002,"end":144.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.80159375,"end":149.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.94846875000002,"end":151.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.04096875000002,"end":154.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.61846875,"end":160.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.44034375,"end":184.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.96409375000002,"end":203.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.40846875000003,"end":207.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.28534375,"end":216.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.38534375,"end":225.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.69659375,"end":223.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.68346875,"end":227.45534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.13034375,"end":244.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.87034375000002,"end":251.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.09284375000001,"end":266.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.56721875,"end":269.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.94659375000003,"end":270.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.24596875000003,"end":273.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.65909375,"end":281.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.19784375,"end":284.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.04971875,"end":288.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.72409375,"end":291.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.78284375000004,"end":309.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.41284375000004,"end":327.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.58971875000003,"end":312.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.73221875,"end":319.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.60846875000004,"end":327.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.79409375,"end":332.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.38409375000003,"end":351.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.62159375000005,"end":352.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.68471875,"end":352.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.97159375,"end":355.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.30909375000005,"end":353.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.11909375000005,"end":355.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.73909375,"end":366.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.13409375000003,"end":378.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.36034375,"end":384.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.73034375000003,"end":391.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.44659375000003,"end":398.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.75784375,"end":398.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.71971875,"end":402.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.66846875000005,"end":408.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.77784375000005,"end":405.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.60846875000004,"end":409.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.03034375000004,"end":411.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.97534375000004,"end":410.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.54909375000005,"end":410.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.11846875000003,"end":415.88159375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.397,"end":8.464,"text":"你好 我們請部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":15.802,"end":41.933,"text":"委員好部長好部長現在這個免費的營養午餐它是屬於地方政府的權責嗎是那我想教育部的重點現在是三張EQ就是食安的把關跟飲食教育那可是我想要請教的是說現在各地方有的推免費有的是部分免費等於說現在一國多制教育部要怎麼樣做協調避免說所有的壓力最後就到學校跟老師上面"},{"start":42.213,"end":69.375,"text":"因为有些这个县市它是基本上全面免费那有一些不是那不是的这些学校变成说在第一线要怎么样跟这些学生的家长来去沟通我想这个是这个部分我想请教一下因为我今天的立场非常清楚就是我首先除了这个一国多志的问题之外我也要替第一线的老师发声因为现在的不管是部分免费或是全部免费那营养午餐的话都是限于学生那很多老师他不但"},{"start":69.815,"end":84.437,"text":"他要自己把自費就算了那還要把這個行政的時間要去顧這些同學們所以等於是說我們的教師他除了教學工作之外行政的工作包含營養午餐他需要的這個配膳的協調特殊的飲食"},{"start":85.018,"end":113.65,"text":"還有退餐 聖餐 會生 集合還有跟家長的溝通等等最後都變成導師跟行政同仁再去吸收這方面的隱形的成本所以我想請教部長有兩個部分第一個是不是可以要求地方在推動免費或者是擴大公餐的時候來去同步處理午餐相關作業的工作量的這種支持的配套或者是在行政上面提供一些加急讓這些負責行政工作的老師同仁們"},{"start":114.15,"end":116.504,"text":"能夠不要在教學以外還要負擔這麼重"},{"start":121.567,"end":144.129,"text":"博焱刚才所提到了从包含人力甚至作业流程等等那我分两点来说明第一个我们会把一个午餐公餐的从买到最后到餐桌上这个大概有八个动作我们会把这八个动作不管你是公办公营公办民营或是团散"},{"start":144.85,"end":160.713,"text":"每一個公餐類型它的八個動作應該怎麼做我們都會予以律定但這個過程我們會找專家跟地方政府作為我們平和的依據也是維繫把關的一個基準"},{"start":161.474,"end":183.233,"text":"第二點中間會涉及到有關人力的付出這些付出可能我們會持續跟地方政府不必有專法的時候因為專法可能還有一點時間但是有些重要的事情我們馬上要做所以我們跟地方政府部長也要求我們跟地方政府趕快繼續洽談就有一些可以先做的就不等我們用措施來達成品質謝謝"},{"start":184.454,"end":202.799,"text":"好那再针对另外一个事情跟今天的主题也是类似但是我还是要提到导师教师的这个权益我们上次我们讨论导师费的一些终点费的调整那我知道教育部他是花很多的力气去争取资源那额度大家还是有所期待那"},{"start":203.619,"end":224.608,"text":"之前這個次長也說可能會持續的調整滾動 滾動調整但是我現在有另外一件事情我覺得可以立即來去協助到學校的行政人員的那就是改善他們的辦公環境跟設備那以目前我們加一線為例各校的行政這個的環境大概都還是二三十年前的成設那個是個我是直接從校長那邊聽到"},{"start":225.828,"end":251.249,"text":"那有些行政電腦基本上是教學端汰換下來的二手電腦讓他們再繼續來執行這些行政事務所以在這樣的硬體條件下他們要處理的工作確實越來越多從採購核銷公文 午餐行政我剛才提到的社團活動 校務系統我覺得這些壓力是非常大那我們不可能一方面要行政同仁專業化數位化跟效率化然後一方面叫他們再用老舊的空間二手設備下硬撐"},{"start":252.19,"end":281.113,"text":"那另外一点就是现在的这个偏乡三年两百万的经费他主要是运用在改善教学环境跟设备他没有办法拿来全面翻新我们行政场域行政办公场域所以关键的是除了我刚刚提到的这些偏乡之外非三非四的学校三年是只有一百万这个在实务上面我不觉得能够有效的来去改善他们的这个办公空间行政空间那"},{"start":282.25,"end":308.935,"text":"我想請教部長 這個改善調整你待遇 它要時間甚至是需要更多的法條上面的改善可是改善辦公環境跟設備這個是可以先做那也是最能夠提升行政效能的或者是同仁工作品質的事項所以我想說如果能夠願意讓擔任行政工作的同仁能夠有一個更至少更舒適的一個辦公環境更有效率的辦公環境這部分部長怎麼看"},{"start":310.519,"end":326.907,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心特別這個偏鄉或者非商非市我們的一個態度也跟委員是一致的我們怎麼樣去讓他們有一個相對好的教學環境工作的一個條件這我們這個中央跟地方因為"},{"start":328.157,"end":350.539,"text":"跟委員是一致的我們來看怎麼樣來協助這一個剛才所提的說偏鄉則三年才兩百萬然後商會式的才一百萬我想這我們會針對這個實際的這個縣市的這些狀況來給以從中央跟地方來合作看怎麼樣來協助來提升他們一個教學環境跟工作的一個條件"},{"start":351.019,"end":369.859,"text":"教学环境是教研环境那行政空间那又是另外一个领域那我想这个部分我们会跟地方一起来合作来努力特别我们知道嘉义县它确实是一个产业结构跟这个偏乡山上的学校相对是多的而且其实在逻辑上面来讲行政空间的改善不管是在飞山"},{"start":371.159,"end":394.285,"text":"還是在這個偏鄉或者是在獨衛區我想大家的標準理論上是應該是要一致的因為他們都還是要做行政未來這些200萬或者100萬可以更彈性的一些應用我想就我們來調整就上次我們講到50班以下50班以上那時候我們跟次長在討論的時候我們就發覺到說因為有些學校小學校但是因為老師也少"},{"start":394.665,"end":415.633,"text":"是他平均所分擔的公務其實是更多的可是因為是他的班數比較少反而他得到的這個補貼補給是比較多的這是有點不太公平所以這方面還是希望全部的閉路考量好謝謝委員提醒謝謝我們來努力好謝謝陳冠廷委員質詢那部長署長請回座"}]}},{"id":"167187","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167187","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f85129fba890d3ccdc28c02888e1e08ec37137d2db32b336acc64db96ec05ca036185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"13:23:07 - 13:34:49","影片長度":"00:11:42","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T13:23:07+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:34:49+08:00","duration":702,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.31784375,"end":1.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.25846875,"end":3.5578437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.341593750000001,"end":13.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.598468750000002,"end":31.097843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.35096875,"end":33.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.71784375,"end":43.197218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.52659375,"end":83.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.52971875,"end":49.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.59284375,"end":49.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.257843750000006,"end":60.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.244718750000004,"end":64.20659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.66346875,"end":103.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.09909375000001,"end":123.91034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.96096875,"end":123.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.07909375000001,"end":129.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.74471875,"end":135.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.95971875,"end":132.28034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.99284375000002,"end":136.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.76909375,"end":139.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.02596875,"end":140.68409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.02159375000002,"end":144.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.26159375,"end":149.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.26909375,"end":159.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.22534375,"end":161.27159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.72721875000002,"end":166.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.67159375,"end":207.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.94534375,"end":171.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.51034375,"end":174.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.50784375,"end":190.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.52846875,"end":191.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.96471875,"end":207.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.15034375000002,"end":218.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.38909375,"end":244.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.30909375000002,"end":247.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.09346875000003,"end":248.54909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.00471875000002,"end":268.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.13659375000003,"end":274.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.27534375,"end":272.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.53659375,"end":292.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.03159375,"end":297.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.70596875,"end":302.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.29159375,"end":332.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.31221875,"end":336.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.07971875000004,"end":336.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.41721875,"end":346.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.88409375000003,"end":362.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.82659375000003,"end":368.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.41221875,"end":370.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.43721875,"end":370.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.75784375,"end":371.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.54659375,"end":383.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.37596875,"end":392.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.38721875000005,"end":408.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.09346875,"end":410.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.59971875,"end":412.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.72596875000005,"end":415.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.96221875000003,"end":416.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.05034375,"end":418.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.87284375,"end":421.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.36596875000004,"end":421.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.20971875000004,"end":422.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.42471875,"end":428.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.12846875,"end":431.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.32221875000005,"end":433.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.48221875,"end":433.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.58346875,"end":438.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.59534375000004,"end":440.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.77221875000004,"end":441.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.10971875,"end":442.99971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.43846875,"end":444.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.83909375,"end":452.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.82096875,"end":455.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.26784375000005,"end":464.71784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.08471875000004,"end":468.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.34596875000005,"end":489.40596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.34284375000004,"end":495.31221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.39659375,"end":497.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.61596875000004,"end":495.70034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.16409375,"end":500.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.30284375,"end":521.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.27846875,"end":532.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.99409375,"end":585.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.82221875,"end":579.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.0247187500001,"end":580.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":584.4797187500001,"end":598.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.73159375,"end":593.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.67596875,"end":600.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.9497187500001,"end":611.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.29409375,"end":611.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":612.00284375,"end":642.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.9765937500001,"end":618.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.63784375,"end":626.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.5634687500001,"end":654.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.71846875,"end":651.1359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.5447187500001,"end":654.5615937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.59534375,"end":689.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":661.09221875,"end":661.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":686.97846875,"end":687.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":688.04159375,"end":688.8178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.3915937500001,"end":690.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.01596875,"end":690.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.31971875,"end":692.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.14221875,"end":694.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.01534375,"end":695.9053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.20909375,"end":697.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":700.03971875,"end":701.96346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.583,"end":3.208,"text":"崔教授先到 部長謝謝好 何秦 鄭部長"},{"start":11.954,"end":29.539,"text":"教育部之前是有提高有關於行政人員的工作獎金1000到2000其實要解決行政到逃亡的首要要務還是要做行政減量我是不曉得說教育部有沒有針對行政減量這部分不斷的滾動式檢討"},{"start":32.281,"end":48.839,"text":"跟委員報告我們大概內部有檢討了大概行政檢量教育部我們最近的盤點大概有將近七成有69%給本席一份資料好不好我們來看一下好不好因為大家對於行政檢量這個部分還是都覺得不夠"},{"start":50.16,"end":76.994,"text":"一堆評鑑一堆就是各部會寄到教育局的教育部教育部要寄給教育局教育局要寄給學校所以光是辦公文就辦得非常多這個部分給我們一個書面的說明第二件事情是其實我們看到全國各縣市有一些縣市裁員比較好的他們就會針對工作獎金做加碼像台北現在行政工作獎金又加碼一千到三千高雄針對"},{"start":78.655,"end":102.983,"text":"行政工作獎金加碼50%那其他縣市如果財政狀況沒有那麼好沒有辦法跟進的就會產生磁吸效應很多老師願意兼行政職的就跑到台北跟高雄去了那我上一次部長沒有來啦是次長來其實我有建議啦我覺得教育部應該去找各縣市政府統一做法啦比如說"},{"start":104.161,"end":128.314,"text":"你應該提升到大概行政獎金提升到五千其實上次署長有講大概增加十幾億而已我覺得這個部分應該要做所以是不是請部長看是統一編列還是說再找各縣市不然各縣市變成大家爭相加碼福利好的就找得到老師福利不好的就找不到這也會造成這個狀況"},{"start":131.016,"end":158.878,"text":"跟委員報告教育部確實是定了一個最基本的一個門檻對但是呢我們也看到台北市為什麼最近這個譬如說去年來講他代理代課老師就這個一直找不到是因為我們過去台北市因為他的物價比較高各方面都是真的是比較多的一些在生活上的一個費用比較高所以台北當時是代理代課他也給他領"},{"start":160.299,"end":187.25,"text":"一年12個月但是我們過去的其他縣市只有09個月所以呢因為這樣一個落差 陸長因為時間有限我們就不要講股了啦我現在因為上次你沒有來你沒有來我這個建議那個署長都知道再跟您報告啦好不好上次有提到就是說希望全國的行政獎金都可以提高到5000那我是比較不希望看到就是各縣市的做法就變成說好像沒有加的部分"},{"start":187.89,"end":207.46,"text":"就沒有被照顧到我們跟地方縣市來討論部長 這個是統一再來就是有關於我們今天其實是講營養午餐營養午餐就牽涉到營養師跟伍祕這兩個是我比較關心的比如說營養師現在像團善業者他是自己提供營養師但學校就沒有"},{"start":208.32,"end":218.488,"text":"所以学校的营养师这个部分能不能也统一做法在法律还没有修的情况之下先定个办法出来然后第二个是五密五密的做法全国也不一样"},{"start":219.808,"end":244.318,"text":"你看喔,像新北、彰化、嘉義,如果你是老師兼伍祕的話,每個人檢的授課結束也不一樣。然後就我了解,因為現在各學校他們宜安午餐有很多種做法嘛,有的是團善業者提供,有的是自立廚房,有的是中央廚房,幾個學校聯合起來中央廚房。那像團善業者的話,伍祕是由團善業者提供,有的學校的老師就不用去兼。"},{"start":245.424,"end":268.004,"text":"所以這個一國多制啦那是不是教育部也可以訂一個統一的辦法出來就如果是5密的話那你們建議什麼情況之下他可以減時數甚至於我之前有爭取啦5密如果是老師來監的話除了減時數之外有沒有可能比照行政給予一定的工作獎金這個部分部長可不可以研究一下"},{"start":269.266,"end":296.643,"text":"我想謝謝委員的關心我們當然我們可以來跟地方來這個部分也是大概一個月好不好那五密這個部分我就延伸出其實學校裡面有很多老師兼的行政職他是他並沒有說給予這個一定的比較好的福利跟待遇除了五密我剛講的之外比如說導護其實最好就是讓老師不要去兼導護這個以前我跟部長也有提過"},{"start":297.799,"end":320.241,"text":"就是让老师现在如果说老师一定要兼导户的话他是补修也没有给予津贴然后另外就是有的老师他是兼社团老师他也是用补修也是没有给予津贴就是有没有可能就盘点一下如果老师有额外去兼类似行政工作其实最好是像导户就回归专业这可能要"},{"start":320.922,"end":332.419,"text":"大刀闊斧的推廣我覺得再不可能又要說時間要拉比較長可是在還沒有達到一定的改革的時候是不是就給予他們比如說一定的工作行政津貼啦這個你也研究一下好不好"},{"start":333.399,"end":361.928,"text":"我想这个导赋其实这里边当然有不同的文化里边我们有不同的看法但是跟地方来讨论我想我们也把它一并纳进来一并纳进来 好不好然后再来我们之前教育部有公布说要给国教的老师就是有工作奖金然后导师费也有提高终点费也有提高其实蛮多幼教幼教界的就在呼吁什么时候轮到幼教"},{"start":362.935,"end":383.447,"text":"署長上司的講法好像是說馬上辦法就會訂出來會回溯到去年的九月那要點訂完了待會會後給委員好 那這個部分我想反映一下因為在現在其實幼教缺老師的狀況也是非常嚴重特別是缺教保員那其實在幼稚園裡面教師跟教保員他做的事情"},{"start":384.508,"end":408.53,"text":"其實差不多可是第一個他們導師費就不一樣導師費教師就比教保員多然後第二現在教育部一直在推那個身心調適假應該是全國各機關其實也不是教育界啦都在推身心調適假但是在幼稚園這一塊教師是有身心調適假可是教保員好像就沒有 對吧"},{"start":410.846,"end":427.671,"text":"這個我們都有研議大概跟剛剛講的會後一起給委員有研議是什麼意思有一起要做一些所以教保員之後也會納入身心調適假是不是會一起會是不是會就是所以第一個就是幼教的福利會提升第二個他們的待遇會"},{"start":429.298,"end":454.942,"text":"你可不可以也講一下好不好像剛剛所提到的第一個要點對於這一次相關的教保服務費用比照導師費這個我們這已經訂了在上個禮拜發布另外委員問到身心調適價相關的比照相關的類型因為它比較細節是不是容我貴後馬上補給我行政加緊也是有"},{"start":455.503,"end":464.523,"text":"行政加緊因為它這個涉及到學校的規模它不一定像學校一樣那目前我們對比照的部分是教保費的部分"},{"start":466.181,"end":494.426,"text":"教保費的部分所以行政加息目前沒有研究因為行政加息的部分這一個在如果是一般的幼兒園它如果沒有類似這樣的一個情形那一部分的比照它比較看不到我們的研究數據上的連結但是在如果是屬於教保屬於每個班會付出的那個導師那個性質的導師有啦但是因為有的行政是比如說老師兼導師然後還要再兼組長"},{"start":495.706,"end":521.445,"text":"那實際這工作是很繁重啊所以我覺得現在的問題就是在幼兒園裡面很多老師一樣啦我覺得有的是大環境的影響啊譬如說現在有些家長跟老師的關係我覺得有時候當然現在因為少子化嘛家長有時候遇到一些狀況可能會去檢舉老師然後讓老師工作壓力變得很大所以"},{"start":522.455,"end":543.556,"text":"我知道在幼教圈有一些老師其實他們很喜歡小朋友他們甚至於不想離開這個行業他們也會擔心說如果大家都離開了那小朋友誰來照顧他們捨不得離開可是有時候在工作上面又面臨到一些突而來的壓力也有點委屈其實現在幼教界有一部分士氣是蠻低落的"},{"start":544.617,"end":568.032,"text":"那我覺得有的是大環境的影響可能教育部一師半課也沒有辦法解決啦但我們先從比較能夠在短期讓幼教界老師們覺得有被重視有被照顧的這塊切入那我是覺得比如說既然教育部你們現在都有在研究比如在國教這方面怎麼樣提高老師的待遇然後增加他們的獎金然後"},{"start":568.832,"end":597.853,"text":"至少我覺得除了錢的問題之外讓他覺得說其實大家是很重視幼教老師讓他們在工作上面可以更有熱忱所以這個部分我覺得這個國教署還是要特別注意一下我不衝10秒委員您剛才所提到整體幼教老師的他所面對的環境以及他愛教育這個我們有一個小組我們會最近在召開第六次會議我把一些會議結果也跟委員呈報然後"},{"start":599.494,"end":610.407,"text":"再來就是現在因為現在幼教最關心的就是評鑑現在要針對特生做評鑑嘛 對不對之前是一年一次評鑑再加五年一次基礎評鑑嘛 對不對"},{"start":612.042,"end":639.956,"text":"那現在這一次的評鑑委員您可能會提到說大家對那個特教評鑑的一些細節包含可能它太多啦或是它的內容會不會不勝負荷以及它的結果會不會很嚇人這一些跟委員報告我們跟六大團體一起檢討過對每一項指標我們都予以做指標的說明當場都確認了解指標的意義跟我們的說明是否明確如果還需要檢討我們都一樣都從善如流繼續會收集相關意見"},{"start":641.917,"end":666.329,"text":"持續檢討因為感覺好像署長您是希望會後補資料那我就再重複一下我需要的資料沒問題我都會記起來第一個就是剛剛所講的全國就是有關於行政家籍的這一塊你們做檢討之後你們具體辦法是什麼第二個是針對學校裡面有一些老師兼任的行政工作比如說武祕 導護 社團老師"},{"start":668.63,"end":695.33,"text":"那相對應的應該給予的行政工作獎金有哪一些這個你有在講嗎第三個就是幼教這一塊幼教這一塊就包括比如說幼教教保員跟教師他們的各方面的行政佳績然後以及評鑑你們的檢討這幾項東西會後再補給我需要多少時間一個月有些會比較快的就不用一個月因為你有的已經在手上了既有的資料今天會後就馬上補好 謝謝"},{"start":700.134,"end":700.417,"text":"好 謝謝葉雲芝委員"}]}},{"id":"167186","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167186","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851c9d23c07ff8cc95175d69df13e4e8eda37d2db32b336acc6b22339bbe58c964b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"12:45:01 - 13:04:33","影片長度":"00:19:32","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:45:01+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:04:33+08:00","duration":1172,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.5372187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.164718750000002,"end":10.054718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.78034375,"end":11.742218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.484718750000003,"end":13.176593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.63221875,"end":15.809093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.93971875,"end":17.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.250968750000002,"end":24.617843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.617843750000002,"end":25.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.098468750000002,"end":27.452843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.11096875,"end":31.215968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.55346875,"end":35.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.05909375,"end":43.095968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.737218750000004,"end":62.687843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.829093750000006,"end":50.250968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.31221875000001,"end":70.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.87221875,"end":74.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.20909375000001,"end":88.48971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.02971875,"end":94.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.88534375,"end":97.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.16346875,"end":102.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.08659375,"end":104.25096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.03159375000001,"end":105.75284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.39409375000001,"end":113.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.20721875000001,"end":116.46846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.02096875000001,"end":129.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.65784375000001,"end":120.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.01909375,"end":130.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.30596875,"end":131.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.16659375,"end":131.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.65596875,"end":148.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.28409375,"end":136.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.07159375,"end":146.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.17659375000002,"end":163.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.21034375000002,"end":148.24409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.34534375,"end":148.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.05596875,"end":164.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.68034375000002,"end":170.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.38846875000002,"end":180.35721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.26846875,"end":188.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.52096875,"end":186.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.05221875,"end":203.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.22096875000003,"end":188.23784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.57846875,"end":195.81471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.74159375000002,"end":209.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.02346875,"end":211.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.82909375000003,"end":218.68034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.13596875000002,"end":220.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.60409375,"end":223.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.16471875000002,"end":230.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.06659375,"end":233.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.18846875000003,"end":235.16721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.09534375,"end":238.82909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.23409375000003,"end":245.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.51159375,"end":247.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.73909375000002,"end":250.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.96221875,"end":252.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.37096875,"end":255.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.99534375000002,"end":256.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.88096875,"end":258.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.96096875,"end":259.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.98596875000004,"end":263.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.90534375000004,"end":265.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.31846875,"end":266.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.97221875,"end":269.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.03534375000004,"end":269.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.11096875000004,"end":282.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.29534375000003,"end":289.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.58471875000004,"end":297.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.53284375000004,"end":310.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.85159375,"end":315.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.55534375,"end":318.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.76596875,"end":318.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.60971875,"end":319.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.64346875,"end":319.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.77846875,"end":319.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.81221875,"end":325.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.42346875000004,"end":333.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.90284375000005,"end":337.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.58159375,"end":343.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.06221875,"end":341.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.95221875000004,"end":342.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.17971875,"end":346.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.55909375000005,"end":352.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.82409375000003,"end":362.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.77596875,"end":370.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.43721875,"end":398.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.17971875,"end":400.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.69409375000004,"end":402.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.95534375000005,"end":416.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.89971875000003,"end":408.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.09346875,"end":410.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.97096875000005,"end":411.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.71721875000003,"end":423.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.86409375000005,"end":421.09596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.60221875,"end":426.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.37784375,"end":432.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.01846875,"end":431.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.76096875,"end":432.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.01409375000003,"end":432.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.89159375,"end":432.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.97596875000005,"end":483.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.04346875000005,"end":461.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.15784375000004,"end":484.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.03534375000004,"end":495.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.34159375,"end":505.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.24721875000006,"end":509.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.26346875,"end":511.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.95096875,"end":515.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.7434687499999,"end":521.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.7509687500001,"end":530.1084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.98596875,"end":536.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.58846875,"end":541.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.3090937500001,"end":549.5147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.83096875,"end":557.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.9353437500001,"end":562.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.37346875,"end":565.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.9678437499999,"end":567.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.0772187499999,"end":570.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.08096875,"end":574.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.41784375,"end":578.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.55284375,"end":581.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.9653437500001,"end":586.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.09971875,"end":589.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.50034375,"end":591.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.32659375,"end":593.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.2209687500001,"end":595.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.7522187500001,"end":610.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.40096875,"end":604.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.4965937500001,"end":612.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.55534375,"end":614.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.4115937500001,"end":616.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.89221875,"end":619.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.7609687500001,"end":621.9422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.51596875,"end":623.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.0347187500001,"end":624.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.7053437500001,"end":626.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.5447187500001,"end":628.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.18159375,"end":632.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.23596875,"end":638.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.2434687500001,"end":638.9184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.25596875,"end":639.8972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.6059687500001,"end":641.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.53409375,"end":642.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.06971875,"end":644.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.3859687500001,"end":645.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.3772187500001,"end":648.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.9253437500001,"end":650.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.27534375,"end":650.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.10221875,"end":652.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.07659375,"end":653.8359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.6459687500001,"end":655.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.5147187500002,"end":659.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.61971875,"end":662.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.20159375,"end":668.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.8715937500001,"end":670.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":671.8247187500001,"end":676.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.16221875,"end":674.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.0265937500001,"end":683.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":677.6297187499999,"end":692.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.55659375,"end":705.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.40346875,"end":695.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":696.90096875,"end":697.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":705.4734687499999,"end":710.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.7434687500001,"end":708.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.15659375,"end":708.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.6415937500001,"end":709.9115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.2109687500001,"end":712.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.92784375,"end":716.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.2859687499999,"end":720.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.82971875,"end":722.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.97284375,"end":725.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.56284375,"end":728.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":729.0647187500001,"end":729.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.5203437499999,"end":729.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.57096875,"end":730.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.0390937500001,"end":734.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.5578437500001,"end":735.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":734.2790937500001,"end":741.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":742.61534375,"end":743.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.16784375,"end":748.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.6015937500001,"end":766.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.08409375,"end":768.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.8897187500002,"end":776.9053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":776.0278437500001,"end":784.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":784.41471875,"end":791.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.43159375,"end":786.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":787.46909375,"end":794.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":794.2865937500001,"end":806.8584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":795.24846875,"end":799.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":808.30971875,"end":808.7990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":809.2040937500001,"end":812.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":809.72721875,"end":811.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":811.9040937500001,"end":815.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":815.09346875,"end":815.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":815.36346875,"end":822.0459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":815.3972187500001,"end":817.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":821.6072187500001,"end":822.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":822.61971875,"end":826.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":822.63659375,"end":823.1765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.02409375,"end":830.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.63096875,"end":847.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":848.80971875,"end":850.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":851.62784375,"end":858.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":853.99034375,"end":855.3403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":859.10346875,"end":862.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":862.4953437500001,"end":868.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":862.5459687500002,"end":863.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":868.62096875,"end":873.8015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":868.67159375,"end":880.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":880.73721875,"end":888.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":881.68221875,"end":886.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":886.7109687500001,"end":892.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.81971875,"end":909.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":900.81846875,"end":905.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":907.5347187500001,"end":911.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":912.20909375,"end":914.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":913.4409687500001,"end":921.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":916.03971875,"end":916.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":919.11096875,"end":919.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":920.2922187500001,"end":922.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":922.9753437500001,"end":927.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":926.2490937500002,"end":928.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":928.0378437500001,"end":928.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":928.40909375,"end":944.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":928.8984687500001,"end":929.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":929.38784375,"end":929.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":929.4553437500001,"end":930.4678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":945.7565937500001,"end":948.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":949.1822187500002,"end":955.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":956.37096875,"end":957.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":958.1259687500001,"end":966.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":967.1709687500002,"end":969.2803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":970.44471875,"end":971.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":970.6640937500001,"end":975.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":973.38096875,"end":974.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":975.38909375,"end":977.7178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":975.5915937500001,"end":976.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":976.62096875,"end":979.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":978.74721875,"end":979.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":979.9790937500002,"end":982.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":981.5147187500002,"end":991.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":992.28096875,"end":999.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":999.40221875,"end":1005.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1004.93721875,"end":1010.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1006.86096875,"end":1007.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1009.37534375,"end":1027.5328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1010.94471875,"end":1013.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1019.12909375,"end":1021.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1025.64284375,"end":1031.3297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1028.1909687500001,"end":1028.8997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1030.95846875,"end":1036.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1037.26971875,"end":1048.4915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1049.3015937500002,"end":1053.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1053.3853437500002,"end":1057.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1057.68846875,"end":1058.5997187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1059.1734687500002,"end":1059.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1060.35471875,"end":1061.2828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1061.9747187500002,"end":1070.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1072.6734687500002,"end":1081.3640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1076.1328437500001,"end":1076.4365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1079.18721875,"end":1079.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1081.4822187500001,"end":1085.2959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1082.0728437500002,"end":1082.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1086.6797187500001,"end":1086.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1086.9665937500001,"end":1087.0340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1087.0340937500002,"end":1089.1097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1087.06784375,"end":1088.5697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1088.5697187500002,"end":1088.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1088.90721875,"end":1089.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1089.1097187500002,"end":1089.1434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1089.1434687500002,"end":1089.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1090.15596875,"end":1095.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1091.13471875,"end":1094.2059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1095.92721875,"end":1103.7234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1097.2603437500002,"end":1099.6565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1102.2890937500001,"end":1112.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1104.49971875,"end":1105.1578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1109.59596875,"end":1110.2372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1110.7603437500002,"end":1133.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1116.61596875,"end":1119.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1126.2009687500001,"end":1133.4403437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1133.5247187500001,"end":1133.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1133.59221875,"end":1134.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1134.2840937500002,"end":1134.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1134.6384687500001,"end":1157.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1136.5284687500002,"end":1137.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1140.81471875,"end":1143.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1145.7590937500001,"end":1146.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1148.7459687500002,"end":1149.8934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1158.1284687500001,"end":1159.7147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1158.8878437500002,"end":1159.8497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1159.7147187500002,"end":1159.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1159.8497187500002,"end":1161.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1159.90034375,"end":1159.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1159.91721875,"end":1160.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1160.74409375,"end":1160.9634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1160.9634687500002,"end":1165.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1161.9422187500002,"end":1163.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1164.43971875,"end":1165.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1165.1484687500001,"end":1165.1990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1165.68846875,"end":1168.4390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1168.7090937500002,"end":1172.03346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.366,"end":23.61,"text":"有請國土署署長還有部長 謝謝請留部長還有國土署代理署長還有部長 謝謝好"},{"start":29.209,"end":57.749,"text":"部長還有署長我想土方之亂大家網路不斷的在報導我會關心最主要是因為我們在地方爭取了自來水管線的工程汰換前陣子停工到後面現在已經有知名的企業出來喊話土方之亂有可能造成美瓶再貴5萬元最後受害的是所有的"},{"start":58.369,"end":74.254,"text":"我們這些年輕家庭也好買房的人也好這讓我們非常擔憂啊如果這樣子的一個狀況不加以改善而且是超緊急改善不是中長期這些所謂的成本都會轉嫁到消費者"},{"start":75.267,"end":101.733,"text":"我們剛剛也聽到其他的委員在關心我們現在不管是最終處置也就是西以及我們現在看到台中所提出的替代方案也就是台中的這個台中港那這個部分的大概有提出了部分來做站置那剛剛部長你有提到如果要運到台北台北港那邊來做處理是可以接受的是嗎"},{"start":104.053,"end":128.892,"text":"海運的部分喔那可是這些人就問一句話當他運到台北的時候海運的部分這中間的運費一定會有一些多的成本出來請問中央會補助嗎如果是公共工程的話不是公共工程那很抱歉我跟委員報告我們要一個概念我們現在在處理這個部分是為了以前不合法的"},{"start":130.589,"end":146.313,"text":"處置方向那我們現在要把它拉正回來要怎麼樣合法的處置方向所以有業者提到說要增加那以前如果他們亂堆亂置的時候後續的環境保護所花費的恐怕是十倍百倍不止所以我覺得他們應該了解這個狀況"},{"start":148.274,"end":162.982,"text":"署長我在跟你在江副院長開會的時候當時你有提到台中其實早在110年就有做GPS而且在當時這樣的政策之下台中的處理狀況是相對比較好的對吧"},{"start":164.136,"end":180.318,"text":"是 對吧 報告委員我們目前的話就是台中跟我們就是雙軌並行我們現在是講GPS我知道 雙軌並行你先回應我嘛台中是不是早在110年就已經有做GPS相對應的做追蹤所以台中的這個部分是不是做得比較好嘛"},{"start":181.428,"end":211.043,"text":"報告委員 但是台中只處理到BC的部分他沒有處理你剛剛就說是了然後現在又轉口那C的部分也是因為你處理的量能不夠你增加C我沒有問題我跟你講今天我們都支持你的方案不管你雙軌制或者是你要怎麼處理都沒有關係但今天我也不是在幫這些運到台北的業者講話我是怕他所有的成本轉嫁到最後消費者啊那這個部分難道"},{"start":211.909,"end":238.511,"text":"你不承擔業者也不承擔最後是誰承擔我們全民都知道嘛全民承擔嘛所以今天我不是要你硬著頭皮掏錢給他們啦而是台中的配套超短期的一個救濟是不是應該先出來所以他們有說是不是暫緩三個月暫緩六個月有的人覺得兩個月都不可能等 為什麼"},{"start":239.281,"end":266.534,"text":"因為你自己也知道現在已經開挖到一半這些地下室如果經過一場大雨造成整個內部崩落旁邊林房的損失我再問一句可以申請國賠嗎他因為你的政策停工所以大雨來了眼巴巴的看著他就是內部剝落那請問林房倒塌算"},{"start":268.295,"end":296.744,"text":"這個企業的還是算你的報告委員這個我知道我們公安的意外的部分我們也非常非常的重視所以在我們今天下午跟各地方政府開會我希望你們好好討論因為你一直在講今年能夠提供對不起不是今年年底我們只要從現在開始一場大雨就好就會造成挖到一半的地下室導致公安危機請問一下這可以用年來算嗎"},{"start":298.618,"end":318.689,"text":"所以我們還是呼籲今天你們下午的會議超短期的配套不管是要做一個暫緩也好不管是要做一個臨時的暫制也好你們都應該要提出來而且當天會議我們有一直在追如果他自己還有其他的土地自己還有其他土地他做暫制可不可以"},{"start":319.916,"end":333.003,"text":"我們現在就希望透過地方的自治條例或是定地相關規定來處理現在不只是地方自治條例地方自治條例也是說嘛兩個月三個月的時間嘛有沒有其他的配套方式他自己有自己的土地"},{"start":333.976,"end":349.878,"text":"有多的他拿來佔置這個部分你們來做一個控管是這個只要能夠管理的好我們都可以所以你配套出來啊是是是好不好所以下午我們一起討論是所以部長剛剛我所提到的我知道你有意願要改善可是絕對不是半年"},{"start":350.699,"end":368.958,"text":"絕對不是好幾個月我們也了解就是會有這種臨時要處理的狀況那我也跟委員報告就是說在臨近我們那個在上次開會的時候已經解決跨區運送像譬如說台中的北部是北邊是苗栗或者是南部有一個其他的地區好像是"},{"start":369.618,"end":397.434,"text":"彰化還是哪裡都會有土資廠的餘裕這是一個那另外一個就是說我們會想要解決就是您剛所提到如果他現在有公安問題要處理的話在毗鄰土地上面要在同一區這區位怎麼做確認不會影響到環保跟公安的問題的話我們會透過譬如說台中市政府他的自治規定或者他的自治管理規則把它明定進去的話就可以暫時解決您剛所提到這個困擾"},{"start":398.24,"end":427.114,"text":"好 部長我們還是要定調土方的問題不是營造業單獨的問題因為它有可能衍生到公安還有所謂的民眾轉嫁成本最後導致我們現在的住屋又漲價這就是錯誤的政策這個到住屋蓋完之前還有一段距離不過我跟委員報告一定是還有一段時間但我們都知道業者很聰明一定會轉嫁到消費者報告委員"},{"start":427.634,"end":445.321,"text":"我們不容許不合法的土資去向這個是大家共識性非常高的所以我們要怎麼樣解決除了中長城計畫大家不反對以外短期的部分我們已經解決跨區要能夠清運這一個然後再來就是毗鄰的土地怎麼做定義"},{"start":446.201,"end":460.478,"text":"還有一個就是說我們可不可以擴大就是說它在榮受這個土石方的時候所謂叫公益性譬如說它是市地重劃或者是區段徵收那這個可不可以變成是公益性的收容 收容土石方這個可以討論沒關係 對"},{"start":461.479,"end":483.247,"text":"那所以我剛剛跟委員報告的部分就是說如果大家願意一起解決尤其我們在開會的時候啊這個大部分的縣市政府尤其是很多這個直轄市政府都有表達同樣的意見跟建議那他們也跟我們站在同樣的立場我們不希望業者採取觀望或是緩衝這樣的手段因為這樣子只是把問題往後越堆積越嚴重"},{"start":485.127,"end":508.159,"text":"另外我要跟部長在討論的是今天我們先把話說重一點年輕人就是被民進黨給騙了因為選前講的一套選後做的就是另外一套我想我手機這個影片大家都看過多年前一個大學生在詢問賴清德總統你的社會住宅的政策很難執行他說13萬戶沒有問題甚至還說"},{"start":511.977,"end":541.139,"text":"他的政策比蔡英文總統的更有力我想賴清德總統在選舉時對年輕人對社會說得很清楚該要蓋社會住宅今天我們不要再講說住宅法裡面把包租貸款也放在裡面了就很清楚賴清德總統說的今天我們到底是要看賴清德總統說的還是要看住宅法的一個圓融的一個界定那你告訴我要看法 法比較大那立法院所訂定的法你們又不執行"},{"start":542.389,"end":556.683,"text":"所以賴清德總統當時一直不斷的講讓年輕人有地方住敢成家敢生孩子現在這不是模糊的承諾這個是很明確的政治承諾但是現在政府現在對外說明"},{"start":557.967,"end":574.173,"text":"不再蓋這麼多的社會住宅要改以包租代管我待會來就教大家你們心中自有一把尺租金補貼作為主力並聲稱這也是社會住宅我承認這是社會住宅的一環但這是社會住宅嗎"},{"start":575.638,"end":591.438,"text":"讲白一点就是要把原本承诺盖的房子改成用补贴嘛所以你们现在一直强调包租贷款也是社会住宅对不起我不能够接受那我就问一个最基本的问题请部长回应我"},{"start":592.403,"end":616.782,"text":"拜託你你說包租代管你說租金補貼就是社會住宅那請問一下我們如果實際蓋了社會住宅他會留下來公共資產政府對於房源有長期的掌握但是包租代管但是租金補貼房子是私人的房東說不租就不租"},{"start":617.932,"end":645.304,"text":"那請問一下這兩者的制度上就有本質的差異不能混為一談今天我也遇到我們一直在修法租金補貼一定要給所謂的房東房客更多的機會來作為溝通的橋樑最後所謂的公益出租者能夠租金來做補貼以後部分的稅金能夠減免"},{"start":646.794,"end":670.267,"text":"讓房客更容易申請那我想請問一下部長今天如果房客正要租房您是房東啊你直接明確的表達對不起如果你要申請租金補貼我不會我連跟你簽約都還沒簽約只是詢問我可不可以就說那你可能可以找別人那請問這樣子我們可不可以申訴對方"},{"start":672.217,"end":689.228,"text":"都完全沒有任何契約產生那對嘛講得這麼簡單房子沒有這麼好找一點就這些地方不是所有人的人都可以領得到租金補貼要有一定的身份他是屬於經濟弱勢或是社會弱勢有錢人不一定要去申請租金補貼這個我們可以來協助我們來協助第一層遇到的民眾就跟我們反映"},{"start":701.475,"end":725.007,"text":"說要申請租金補貼房東直接說掰掰不用聯絡報告委員台中市申請租金補貼的人數是全台灣最多的我們遇到更多的狀況喔不要說沒有遇到我講給大家聽啦房東直接跟他說喔你要申請租金補貼喔讚支持加油阿記得我會漲一些你要給我喔那請問你要怎麼處理檢舉他"},{"start":731.078,"end":748.57,"text":"我當然知道檢舉他檢舉他有罰款我們修法檢舉他有罰款但是問題馬上下一次合約一到他就請他搬家這些問題要不要考量到這些租屋者的困境有沒有被我們給接觸到"},{"start":749.67,"end":765.787,"text":"我們有修法我當然知道我們有修法但是這些租屋者的困境並沒有完全被解決所以今天我們為什麼在討論社會住宅的一個重要性因為政府就是房東能夠給予的一些幫助是更實際的"},{"start":767.148,"end":786.921,"text":"而你告訴我們租金補貼包租貸款也是社會住宅但是本質上所謂的私人財產我們就沒辦法全面的解除啊報告委員您弄錯了我剛所提到的社會住宅就是直接興辦跟包租貸款才是社會住宅租金補貼只是租金補貼反正你們今天就是不斷一直在整個社會住宅政策裡面幫助賴清德在包裝啊"},{"start":794.386,"end":798.11,"text":"所以從今天你們改題目不尊重我們現在所訂定的題目到現在整個社會住宅轉為包租、代管跟補貼是一個正確負責任的一個轉彎"},{"start":809.279,"end":830.084,"text":"我覺得政府應該要跟年輕人講清楚說明白賴清德總統應該要親自跟所有的年輕人跟租屋者來做道歉更關鍵的是這個轉彎並不是因為政府做不到內政部自己在百萬戶租屋家庭支持計畫"},{"start":831.71,"end":850.698,"text":"草案當中早在2025年1月就已經盤點全國260處社會住宅用地面積約265公頃可以興建9.4萬戶的社會住宅並且明確說明持續滾動修正擴大供給但現在同一個政府面對社會大眾卻說土地不足"},{"start":851.713,"end":872.219,"text":"社宅蓋在偏遠地區沒有人住我要問一下請問部長這些如果地方沒有人住當初為什麼要盤點這260處的盤點是各縣市各機關然後送給國土署的但是我們必須要做評估所以你是說因為地方政府的評估因為地方政府的盤點導致你們的政策錯誤囉導致當時正在競選總統的賴清德被這些錯誤的資訊給搞混了囉"},{"start":880.802,"end":884.747,"text":"從他的嘴巴說出來我認為他應該要有責任這是他的一個政治承諾而且剛剛你有說盤點完以後你們會評估你們評估完了才會對外公佈嘛那當時他的政策小組難道沒有負責任嗎"},{"start":899.924,"end":904.346,"text":"還是先喊了再說所以我想請問內政部你可不可以有責任的公布這260處社會住宅用地我沒有說你今天沒有一副責任部長今天你們面對的問題你們跟民眾清楚的表達 蓋不出來一副責任"},{"start":928.476,"end":944.166,"text":"你負責任但是賴清德總統當時的承諾卻沒有告訴全民他錯了當時還這樣子回應那個大學生他做得到還回應那個大學生他的政策比蔡英文更有力所以我今天我不是譴責內政部啊我是譴責賴清德怎麼會透過內政部來幫你包裝"},{"start":956.414,"end":968.865,"text":"政治的語言政治的承諾賴清德應該要出來道歉啊所以我剛剛在問內政部請問一下剛剛我們說的這200多處社會住宅可以公告嗎"},{"start":971.822,"end":991.556,"text":"我們本來就有盤點閒置的房地啊可不可以公布這些所有的用地在哪裡會後可不可以讓我知道一下這份資料沒有問題 但是也要跟委員報告這個必須要跟地方一起來協助才有可能共同推動我們的立場還是一樣 中央跟地方要一起合作而不是互相推諉"},{"start":992.335,"end":1019.405,"text":"我想具體的位置跟取得方式讓社會來檢視其中究竟有多少屬於市區可及的範圍又有多少原本是透過都市更新甚至是捷運聯合開發等方式取得住宅用地包括委員您的方向非常正確就是我們多元取得社會住宅的用地但我希望讓社會來檢視一下這相關的資料嘛如果政府真的擔心需求不足我會給你時間為什麼不敢公開基地讓需求本身來說話為什麼寧可用推測"},{"start":1021.866,"end":1038.234,"text":"用假設作為整個政策退縮的理由所以我們會持續不同的滾動檢討推出穩健的社會住宅政策委員這已經不是能力的問題了也不是條件不足的問題而是執政黨的選擇我們民進黨政府選擇不做而這樣的選擇最終承擔這些代價承擔後果的就是全台灣納稅人民"},{"start":1049.369,"end":1070.718,"text":"我們既然賴清德做出的政治承諾已經無法兌現他也沒辦法出來向社會道歉那麼主管機關內政部部長 劉部長 國土署署長你們就應該為賴清德13萬戶社會住宅政策實際跳票 負起政治的責任 下台吧"},{"start":1072.831,"end":1084.781,"text":"報告委員 很多直轄市長到目前為止也是一樣8年的直接興辦社宅數也是沒有達到他應該到達的數量那您是在說林佳龍嗎林佳龍真的沒有做到喔是不是公開譴責林佳龍了我要講的是現階段你要是接"},{"start":1096.488,"end":1104.958,"text":"現階段你要直接管這個文字有事哎呀 我沒有做到啊 別人也沒有做到啊這就是現在內政部長的一個態度啊我們的態度是中央跟地方要一起合作 報告委員我們作為在野黨 我們作為執政"},{"start":1114.628,"end":1128.737,"text":"應該要監督的一個角色對於所有政治的跳票我們都譴責但是竟然從內政部長嘴巴裡面說出來我們做不到 別人也做不到啊我沒有說這樣的話希望委員會倒帶中央跟地方要一起合作中央跟地方要一起合作"},{"start":1134.821,"end":1146.11,"text":"中央跟地方本來就應該一起合作但是你剛剛的態度只是想要推卸責任讓全民看到我們現在的執政黨的態度就是這樣作為一個監督的角色我還是公開的再說一次我們都是同一套標準我們都一樣譴責但是現在我看到你就是說我沒有做到 別人也沒有做到啊"},{"start":1158.18,"end":1170.384,"text":"抱歉委員從你的嘴巴說出來我只有遺憾啦謝謝羅督委員 也謝謝部長 您誤解了OK好 我們接下來 您誤解了謝謝羅督委員的發言接下來我們中午不休息繼續開會"}]}},{"id":"167180","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167180","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851aac874388b522f1475d69df13e4e8eda37d2db32b336acc6a1a78cd5b970aaea5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"11:25:06 - 11:39:20","影片長度":"00:14:14","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T11:25:06+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T11:39:20+08:00","duration":854,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.500968750000002,"end":19.184093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.52159375,"end":20.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.63034375,"end":27.469718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.63846875,"end":31.367843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.53221875,"end":33.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.16909375,"end":38.455343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.96159375,"end":40.986593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.76284375,"end":42.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.36596875,"end":43.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.29409375,"end":45.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.86346875,"end":46.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.618468750000005,"end":48.900968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.132843750000006,"end":51.533468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.900343750000005,"end":56.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.06846875,"end":57.743468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.03034375,"end":58.992218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.56596875,"end":64.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.06284375,"end":70.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.56409375,"end":75.39471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.35659375,"end":78.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.24221875,"end":81.06471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.35159375,"end":85.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.49846875,"end":90.12659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.34159375,"end":92.92784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.38346875,"end":93.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.00346875000001,"end":97.95659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.96909375,"end":99.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.61034375000001,"end":102.20909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.81659375000001,"end":103.25534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.09909375000001,"end":104.31846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.19596875,"end":107.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.18284375,"end":108.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.75659375000001,"end":112.13159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.02596875,"end":117.36284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.52721875,"end":119.28659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.59034375,"end":120.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.21034375,"end":122.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.61096875000001,"end":123.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.16346875,"end":126.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.15034375,"end":129.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.44534375,"end":129.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.17096875000001,"end":130.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.93034375000002,"end":132.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.28034375000001,"end":134.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.23346875000001,"end":135.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.03909375,"end":140.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.66284375,"end":144.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.97034375,"end":146.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.04596875000001,"end":148.69971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.37471875,"end":151.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.17596875,"end":154.11659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.31909375,"end":156.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.81659375,"end":157.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.25096875,"end":159.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.80346875,"end":164.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.08534375000002,"end":165.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.81096875,"end":167.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.54909375,"end":167.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.56159375000001,"end":169.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.05096875,"end":169.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.08471875,"end":170.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.87346875,"end":178.12971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.66971875000002,"end":181.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.22596875000002,"end":184.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.06534375,"end":186.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.43221875,"end":189.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.46096875,"end":191.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.42284375,"end":193.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.09346875,"end":195.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.28721875000002,"end":196.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.16034375,"end":202.12596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.75034375,"end":207.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.47534375,"end":208.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.87596875000003,"end":211.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.20034375,"end":216.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.26721875,"end":218.17409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.84909375,"end":222.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.84846875000002,"end":226.99971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.48909375000002,"end":228.36659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.02034375000002,"end":231.33659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.84284375000001,"end":232.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.97346875000002,"end":236.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.16284375,"end":237.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.35659375,"end":240.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.51221875000002,"end":242.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.21659375000002,"end":244.06034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.36409375000002,"end":246.49034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.59159375000002,"end":249.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.37159375000002,"end":253.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.49346875,"end":258.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.24784375,"end":261.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.98159375,"end":263.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.07409375000003,"end":264.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.76596875,"end":267.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.63471875,"end":269.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.23346875000004,"end":270.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.43159375,"end":274.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.29596875000004,"end":276.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.52346875,"end":279.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.34596875,"end":283.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.88534375,"end":287.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.91409375,"end":290.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.34409375,"end":292.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.74034375,"end":295.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.73159375,"end":298.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.68471875,"end":299.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.13596875,"end":301.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.22846875000005,"end":303.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.09721875,"end":308.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.51846875,"end":311.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.64034375,"end":314.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.42471875,"end":318.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.15409375,"end":323.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.62596875,"end":327.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.01346875,"end":329.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.12721875,"end":331.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.43909375000004,"end":336.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.34159375,"end":334.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.56909375000004,"end":339.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.29471875,"end":338.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.45034375,"end":341.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.76659375,"end":344.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.87159375000005,"end":348.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.84971875,"end":350.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.41909375,"end":355.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.92034375000003,"end":357.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.35471875,"end":362.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.89409375,"end":369.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.84659375,"end":373.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.25096875,"end":378.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.21659375,"end":381.05159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.16534375000003,"end":384.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.42659375000005,"end":385.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.50221875,"end":386.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.71721875000003,"end":389.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.16409375,"end":393.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.92721875,"end":396.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.71159375,"end":397.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.55096875000004,"end":401.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.90471875000003,"end":403.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.08596875,"end":404.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.18284375,"end":406.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.24159375000005,"end":408.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.06409375000004,"end":410.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.79784375,"end":412.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.50221875000005,"end":414.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.05471875,"end":416.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.47221875,"end":421.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.02409375,"end":424.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.23034375000003,"end":426.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.19221875000005,"end":427.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.86284375,"end":432.06471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.06471875000005,"end":432.09846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.11534375,"end":432.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.73971875,"end":434.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.47346875000005,"end":437.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.59971875,"end":440.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.40096875,"end":442.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.96596875,"end":443.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.08409375,"end":445.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.39159375,"end":448.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.97346875000005,"end":450.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.04909375000005,"end":452.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.07409375000003,"end":456.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.75284375,"end":457.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.20846875,"end":463.70534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.70534375000005,"end":470.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.31596875,"end":475.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.85534375000003,"end":477.66096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.06596875,"end":481.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.67721875,"end":482.68971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.01034375,"end":483.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.90471875000003,"end":487.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.95471875000004,"end":492.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.98846875000004,"end":488.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.98346875000004,"end":494.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.99159375000005,"end":496.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.11784375,"end":498.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.82221875000005,"end":504.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.64471875000004,"end":501.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.82971875000004,"end":506.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.92221875,"end":507.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.23409375000006,"end":514.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.80284375,"end":518.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.7390937499999,"end":518.0090937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.3972187500001,"end":520.4053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.6753437500001,"end":521.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.00846875,"end":527.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.3915937500001,"end":529.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.58534375,"end":530.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.17159375,"end":534.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.9978437500001,"end":537.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.43221875,"end":538.1240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.46159375,"end":541.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.9209687499999,"end":542.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.8447187500001,"end":545.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.5615937499999,"end":548.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.2065937500001,"end":551.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.97846875,"end":554.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.57284375,"end":555.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.18034375,"end":560.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.5803437500001,"end":561.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.5422187500001,"end":563.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.48721875,"end":564.2465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.8034687500001,"end":565.1072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.4953437500001,"end":567.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.1784687500001,"end":569.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.83221875,"end":570.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.2665937500001,"end":573.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.2240937500001,"end":574.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.7765937500001,"end":576.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.08846875,"end":577.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.93221875,"end":578.6240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.8772187500001,"end":579.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.67034375,"end":581.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.59409375,"end":582.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.46721875,"end":585.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.23471875,"end":588.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.36096875,"end":589.5928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.2847187500001,"end":590.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.2297187500001,"end":591.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.88784375,"end":595.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.1740937500001,"end":596.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.91659375,"end":599.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.1059687500001,"end":600.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.49409375,"end":602.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.1772187500001,"end":605.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.24846875,"end":606.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.9909687500001,"end":608.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.2522187500001,"end":610.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.88909375,"end":611.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.40784375,"end":612.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.5047187499999,"end":615.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.37346875,"end":616.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.6728437500001,"end":621.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.55409375,"end":622.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.85346875,"end":625.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.2959687499999,"end":629.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.3797187499999,"end":635.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.59409375,"end":640.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.3147187500001,"end":643.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.5759687500001,"end":645.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.27596875,"end":647.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.18721875,"end":650.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.4272187500001,"end":652.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.4309687500001,"end":654.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.88221875,"end":656.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.28284375,"end":657.9365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.0209687500001,"end":659.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.80971875,"end":662.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.9653437500001,"end":664.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.15909375,"end":665.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.25596875,"end":667.2178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.55534375,"end":668.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.09096875,"end":670.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.60534375,"end":672.2803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.6472187500001,"end":674.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":674.54159375,"end":675.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.7903437500001,"end":677.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.83221875,"end":679.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.6884687500001,"end":681.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.2365937500001,"end":685.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.7803437500002,"end":686.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.0290937500001,"end":687.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.78846875,"end":688.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.2690937500001,"end":692.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.17159375,"end":694.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.3147187500001,"end":699.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.15784375,"end":701.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.01409375,"end":703.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.07284375,"end":705.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":705.67596875,"end":707.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.65034375,"end":709.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.18159375,"end":711.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.83096875,"end":713.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.2822187500001,"end":714.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.5478437500001,"end":717.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.8428437500002,"end":718.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.70346875,"end":719.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.7959687500002,"end":722.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.07409375,"end":723.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":724.1372187500001,"end":726.1115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.71909375,"end":727.0734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.2590937500001,"end":728.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.5247187500001,"end":729.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.85784375,"end":730.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":731.0390937500001,"end":732.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":732.79409375,"end":733.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":733.38471875,"end":733.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.31284375,"end":735.1397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.73034375,"end":737.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":738.0759687500001,"end":739.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.3034687500001,"end":741.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.1047187500001,"end":743.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.6909687500001,"end":744.8090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.1128437500001,"end":746.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.96471875,"end":750.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":751.06971875,"end":755.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.40221875,"end":760.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.02596875,"end":763.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":763.7934687500001,"end":764.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":765.26159375,"end":768.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":769.76721875,"end":770.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":771.2690937500001,"end":772.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.2265937500001,"end":775.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":776.11221875,"end":776.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":777.8503437500001,"end":779.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":779.4028437500001,"end":779.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":780.5165937500001,"end":782.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":782.7609687500001,"end":783.2334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":783.87471875,"end":786.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.33409375,"end":792.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":793.83096875,"end":794.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":795.1809687500001,"end":795.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":796.53096875,"end":799.5515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":800.59784375,"end":802.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.38221875,"end":805.8459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":806.8078437500001,"end":807.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.73596875,"end":808.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":808.61346875,"end":811.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.7690937500001,"end":812.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":813.35534375,"end":816.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":816.8484687500002,"end":818.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":819.98721875,"end":820.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":821.55659375,"end":822.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":823.80096875,"end":825.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.46721875,"end":827.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":828.30659375,"end":828.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":829.23471875,"end":834.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":835.3603437500001,"end":835.8328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":836.15346875,"end":838.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":840.0515937500002,"end":842.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":842.3972187500001,"end":846.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.94909375,"end":852.3703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":848.8603437500001,"end":849.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":854.9184687500001,"end":855.3403437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":16.75,"end":42.123,"text":"主席 各位委員有請主委委員好 主委好這個原住民族教育程度的落差主委知道嗎原住民跟非原住民大專學生的出債協力的差距多少"},{"start":43.41,"end":47.152,"text":"75%到90%好 正確的數字齁這個表示齁 這個我們園民會的處齁 要加油齁我質詢過這個教育部齁 你們同仁也在齁 回去要跟主委報告齁"},{"start":66.127,"end":93.677,"text":"原住民近五年大專校園原住民學生的出債協力107學年度是差距是31.9然後逐年增高113學年度差距高達36.85%今天延命會的業務報告裡面都特別提到提升原住民的人才"},{"start":95.429,"end":121.947,"text":"這個教育是最重要 最重要的這個最重要的 最重中之重 教育所以這個部分 研明會要去重視當然你會覺得說跟我的業務沒有很大的關係事實上你們要去協調有幾個部分要去協調教育部分第一個部分 外加名額過去我們這個 主委"},{"start":124.195,"end":150.243,"text":"我們過去考大學的時候不是外加名後來改為外加百分之二這個杜部長杜正勝部長的時候把它改為外加百分之二我經過協調之後部分的科系現在教育部可以提高為百分之五外加百分之五但是那個科系太少而且這個規定教育部的這個辦法的規定"},{"start":152.259,"end":180.514,"text":"是要延民會跟教育部一起去跟大專校園能夠增加這些科系所以這個部分最好是全部改為外加5%因為我們的落差太大了可以去協調嗎 主委可以啊 我們來跟部長這邊來協調也要請我們的副主委要積極的去協助這個主委跟教育部去協調過去我當副主委都是去協調 負責去協調"},{"start":183.291,"end":188.376,"text":"另外一個問題就是在協雜費 協雜費 教育部的協雜費的減免這個會跟什麼有關係呢 跟我們的休閒 退閒 就跟經費有關係 就跟這個教育經費有關係"},{"start":202.793,"end":223.838,"text":"你看我們111學年度大專以上學生休學原住民是10.55%一般的非原住民只有5.87%差距差不多將近一半我們的退學率更高13.01%也將近5.63%的一個落差這個就是跟沒有經費預算尤其"},{"start":233.018,"end":249.175,"text":"因為外加2%之後就去念私立大學私立大學的費用又高啊經費付不起又要去辦公辦讀當然就影響這個學業嘛就會休學甚至會退學這個都跟經費有關係所以112年6月29號"},{"start":253.619,"end":281.975,"text":"行政院公布了私立大專學校的協雜費非原住民可以掃繳3.5萬但是原住民完全沒有受益因為用不到因為我們有另外一個制度所以本席在112年7月就協調但是經過了8年都沒有調整所以這個要請教育那個研民會也要去協調"},{"start":283.12,"end":311.309,"text":"因為原住民族教育的經費每年編列的時候啊園民會跟教育部要去協調呢原住民族教育經費不能超少於多少那個部分你們要怎麼樣去調整在這個教育的這個相關的這些經費裡面這是非常非常的重要所以這個要請這個園民會盡速的去協調園民會自己本身的部分"},{"start":313.375,"end":335.591,"text":"110年獎助學金獎助學金的部分從111年到現在也都沒有調整物價指數各方面也都是應該去協調所以你們的預算的編列怎麼樣去針對援助民主教育能夠有所重視這個部分 主委這個要去修正調高 要檢討"},{"start":340.729,"end":350.317,"text":"接下來原住民族綜合發展基金很重要你看105年12月31號的結算數淨值淨值高達117億7000多萬元經過這個因為淨法補償被挪用作為淨法補償所以112 12月31號結算數是負的 本來是淨值"},{"start":370.342,"end":393.057,"text":"正數115億變成負的63億累積到114年12月31日累積短數負的67億6千多萬到113年一樣累積短數又增加負的68億8千多萬所以這樣的一個情形你們要做其他事情都很困難"},{"start":394.251,"end":414.037,"text":"所以這個要去爭取 主委你要知道當初沒有原住民足跡本法的時候每年我從原住民行政 台灣省原住民行政局的副局長開始去協調足跡單位每年去撥幾億幾億"},{"start":416.573,"end":444.279,"text":"才會有達到100多億是這樣的一個基礎所以這個部分你看一直短促立法院在第九屆第二會期就做了決議106年的時候就做了決議應該要去撥補所以我們高軍數美委員跟本席有共同的提案要修這個原住民族基本法第18條把它明定在因為100億"},{"start":446.448,"end":470.411,"text":"我們本來就超過100億 對不對 我們要修法所以你們要去協調相關的部會要支持這個修法 可以嗎可以 今年有補助5億 有補充5億到這裡來主委 那個我清楚 那個還是去做進法補償的所以這個進法補償的要扣掉"},{"start":471.7,"end":488.656,"text":"本來就不應該 淨法補償本來應該用公務預算的所以這個 不過我們這個這個去協調 反正要讓它回到一百億的一個方向這個是有這個基金你才可以做很多的事情包括貸款 臨住民保障局貸款"},{"start":490.459,"end":501.913,"text":"開始做了但是這個利率既然已經有綜合發展基金去做這個信託就應該要降低這個利率結果利率還高達2.28%這樣的一個利率比其他的"},{"start":509.304,"end":536.199,"text":"其他的新清安房貸啊一般型房貸什麼那個都比較都來的比較低啊我們的還是高啊所以等於既然有了信保就應該既然有基金去保證就應該降低它的利率這才是一個對我們原住民的潛意的一個保障這個接下來內政部部長也來一下內政部"},{"start":538.546,"end":562.896,"text":"主委你也要在場這是你的業務我是舉例過去沒有原基法的時代沒有原住民族基本法的時代台灣省政府開始每年的編列相關的這些基隆國宅包括我們這個新店中正原住民的住宅當初"},{"start":565.998,"end":595.113,"text":"帶頭抗疫去到台灣省政府我那時候是副組委副局長還是副組委那時候去興建買了這個中正國宅對不對像這樣的當初就是用政府的經費公務預算你看現在當然又出了問題你看我們這個新店三峽也是用公務預算這個相關的棄子的花東新村也都是用公務預算"},{"start":596.964,"end":622.201,"text":"那時候都沒有住宅法 也沒有延期法那現在有了延期法 測定原住民族住宅政策然後要對都會區的安基要有保障 要協助然後呢 住宅法第二條 第四項英式原住民族教育及語言文化等傳承發展校要新建"},{"start":623.358,"end":645.505,"text":"專攻原住民成豬的社會住宅105年12月23號修正到現在到現在沒有一個原住民的專屬的原住民族住宅所以現在都會區的原住民人口已經高達52.8%了我們的相關的這些原住民族住宅的自由利"},{"start":646.351,"end":671.862,"text":"新北市台北市桃園市台中市都差距百分之三十左右啊這樣大一個差距當然要去加加強我們的原住民專屬的社會住宅但是到現在為止都沒有一個主要還是經費嘛還要經費所以本席啊針對園民會的一百一十四到一百一十七也曾經"},{"start":674.824,"end":698.262,"text":"協調國發會當然就內政部而言你們的住宅基金難道都不能去提供作為興建原住民專屬的社會住宅嗎都沒有做你看看這個國發會的主委都同意要列在這個列在這個原住民住宅的四年計畫裡面"},{"start":700.736,"end":727.401,"text":"質詢答覆本席也發了公文把國發會主任委員的承諾也都發文給人民會都沒有做所以要去加油去修正提出去送出去我們共同的去協調相關的部會甚至行政院這個處長趕快發文"},{"start":729.912,"end":755.047,"text":"反正修正了 還沒有做嘛 對不對這個已經快一年了 這個就一定要去爭取我們部長請回座 部長請回座最後 這個 主委花蓮光復香 馬太安溪 煙社府造成重大的傷亡 包括住宅"},{"start":756.465,"end":783.002,"text":"相關的這些我們已經受害非常的深了現在經濟部水利署要將這個馬太安溪河道治理土石的站置場要放在馬太安部落的香草場的部落裡面這個部分要請嚴明會第一個這裡面很多的土地部落"},{"start":783.942,"end":812.342,"text":"原住民的土地還是國有土地增花邊保留地因為跟分割經費沒有一直到現在幾十年都沒有辦保留地他沒有拿到所有錢到時候真的是被強制做土石佔自償的時候他完全拿不到任何的對不對連補償那個人的徵收都沒有辦法都沒有都不會有啊"},{"start":813.433,"end":840.272,"text":"所以這個部分要請這個人民會第一個保留地的趕快去加速辦理第二個這是我們的部落要依延期法依延期法因為馬太安西苑社府的特別條例有提到要依延期法所以你們要跟那個經濟部所謂律師說你要設這個戰車場"},{"start":842.486,"end":849.61,"text":"要依延期法 要經過馬太安部落的諮商同意可以嗎 趕快發文給他們 好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167179","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167179","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851a36ab99e787393e4c02888e1e08ec37137d2db32b336acc689e2bfcd57ebc68f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"13:17:37 - 13:22:50","影片長度":"00:05:13","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T13:17:37+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:22:50+08:00","duration":313,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.36846875,"end":1.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.79409375,"end":9.582218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.40471875,"end":13.125968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.459093750000001,"end":14.712218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.15096875,"end":48.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.41159375,"end":60.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.595343750000005,"end":72.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.91409375,"end":76.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.77409375,"end":82.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.85346875,"end":97.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.60221875,"end":99.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.35721875,"end":100.50471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.75784375,"end":101.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.97284375000001,"end":130.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.71721875,"end":118.59471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.49596875,"end":170.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.85596875000002,"end":148.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.90909375,"end":159.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.72159375,"end":179.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.66534375,"end":220.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.68846875000003,"end":222.51096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.79784375000003,"end":265.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.04846875000004,"end":276.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.29659375,"end":272.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.84034375000005,"end":286.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.07909375,"end":306.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.27096875,"end":301.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.75534375,"end":312.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.38346875,"end":311.45909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.822,"end":12.941,"text":"時間4分鐘好謝謝主席那我們請署長好了啦署長你可能更熟來國教署署長部長你休息署長你應該知道這一題你超熟"},{"start":14.48,"end":33.423,"text":"好 來署長已經很多人問過營養午餐了我就直接跟你說我覺得剛剛昆城委員講了也很多不管是三張EQ或是營養師的配套那我要告訴你們的是我認為這個免費政策它就必須搭配配套我再說一次免費的營養午餐政策它就必須搭配配套"},{"start":33.863,"end":59.574,"text":"但是配套如果回到地方政府的自治事項很多事情他可能就擺爛不管尤其是如果遇到有人認為自己是財政困難的縣市或是直接想要丟包給中央那我覺得我們就先預先來做好準備我們來看下一張目前在營養午餐的相關辦法裡面我們都說學生的午餐費是由學校納入代收代辦費向學生收取或是主管機關補助我認為因為是代辦費"},{"start":60.834,"end":76.084,"text":"所以相關的心態在過去有很多的事情需要討論跟檢討所以我也想要請署長你說說看我們未來如何定義這個代收代辦的事情還是它再也不會出現代收代辦但一旦一個台灣有22種制度的時候我們又該怎麼辦"},{"start":78.974,"end":101.047,"text":"好 謝謝維恩你這個問題很細也很重要首先縣市可能會涉及到辦法的修訂是第二點縣市在處理的過程中我們可能會看看它有沒有一個機制是會不會受到預算的限制而影響到食材所以它有沒有一個彈性調節的機制第三點"},{"start":102.028,"end":121.594,"text":"可能在未來食品的品質上要連同我們原來已給的74億它是不是有至少有個矩陣它有融入或不能夠把它消掉吃掉了然後我說吃掉是指它沒邊或是等等像這些我們最近都在了解跟查查"},{"start":122.154,"end":147.006,"text":"目前发现他们都有编但是我们要查他的数额那一起来合作以上大概三点是比较关键的部分我觉得确实是这样可是因为一旦一个台湾有22种做法的时候确实要拜托国教署这边要更积极协助地方政府不要到时候变成相关新闻事件的时候可能又会再次出现花莲的孩子台东的孩子可能放那个餐盘上一看跟台北小孩又不一样"},{"start":147.426,"end":169.914,"text":"当年苏贞昌院长就是为了解决这个问题所以我们引进三张EQ然后地区盖很棒的中央厨房可是我很怕这个事情在未来它可能又变成另外一个未爆弹谢谢署长我们一起努力谢谢委员好 接下来我们来谈厨余的问题因为厨余的问题过去好像只在教育部这边要做所谓食农教育 习食教育这件事情可是"},{"start":170.794,"end":200.022,"text":"为什么会产生厨余其实大家都有各自的说法根据我以前在我们自己的孩子的学校当营养午餐集合的委员我发现有好几个问题第一个可能是因为营养基准设计的问题所以我们的餐量其实确实很大当然第二个问题也可能是因为孩子们很挑食或者是煮出来的食物的温度样子摆盘孩子都吃不下甚至我们都发现有很多学校会掐头去尾的减掉孩子的营养午餐用餐时间就是前面上课时间老师耽误了"},{"start":200.402,"end":227.504,"text":"下面后面要用餐结束的时候老师就说提早五分钟要结束所以孩子掐头去尾可能剩下十分钟十五分钟不到甚至有的孩子要用营养午餐的时间拿去补学校的作业我相信只要在场有当过家长小孩吃过学校营养午餐的可能有一百种问题可以解决剩食这个问题但是剩食这个问题我现在想跟署长你讨论我们来看下一张营养午餐的基准有没有机会调整或者是最后除以累加上去的费用"},{"start":228.044,"end":257.046,"text":"到底要誰來買單然後未來你們跟環境部跟農業部這邊如何在一年以後據說如果是今年廚餘就要落日了到明年為止我們就不可以再用廚餘去養豬了那學校營養午餐所製造廚餘其實量非常非常的大我相信署長你一定清楚但我認為這個責任不應該是孩子去背因為我們現在看到很多學校為了降低廚餘的數字要讓數字KPI好看他們就跟小孩說你就放在你的碗裡面帶回你家去倒所以學校沒有再產生廚餘了"},{"start":258.247,"end":285.34,"text":"我真的不知道该怎么办那营养午餐有没有机会调整相关营养基准我觉得这都是要一起讨论的来想听听看署长您的意见刚刚委员提到三个问题营养基准的部分我们会跟国教署国建署抱歉一起来处理国建署那刚刚里面有包含分量的事情对因为确实很多孩子反映如果按照那个营养午餐基准我再次要说我没有要挑战那个基准但是如果按照那个基准那个餐盘摆起来搞不好现场我们很多大人其实是吃不完的"},{"start":286.02,"end":312.379,"text":"第二个问题是有关学生用餐时间目前的情况是大概20到30分钟我们会跟地方政府持续做很快的检讨在2月底以前跟委员汇报第三点是有关厨余的事情我们会跟环境部一起来处理包含相关的费用还有示范以及契约的修订那署长知道我们办公室会一直关心这个问题我们后续再来讨论谢谢主席谢谢署长谢谢陈北渝委员"}]}},{"id":"167178","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167178","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8515fc0c2351a86d2e7c02888e1e08ec37137d2db32b336acc6563cb0ca640d278f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"13:03:33 - 13:12:03","影片長度":"00:08:30","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T13:03:33+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:12:03+08:00","duration":510,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.11534375000000001,"end":1.4822187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.10659375,"end":2.3934687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.18659375,"end":4.334093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.329093750000002,"end":16.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.93971875,"end":18.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.27284375,"end":23.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.43659375,"end":24.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.20846875,"end":35.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.00846875,"end":39.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.80534375,"end":41.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.454718750000005,"end":43.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.90596875,"end":45.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.23909375,"end":46.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.73221875,"end":54.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.27096875,"end":57.540968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.890968750000006,"end":59.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.540343750000005,"end":93.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.95971875000001,"end":78.16221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.07284375,"end":83.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.74346875,"end":87.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.70471875000001,"end":89.94096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.99096875000001,"end":98.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.93159375,"end":96.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.47971875,"end":98.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.37409375,"end":102.79971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.48346875,"end":101.75346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.96846875,"end":108.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.85784375,"end":111.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.11909375,"end":111.28784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.28784375000001,"end":111.43971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.43971875000001,"end":111.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.50721875,"end":112.06409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.57471875,"end":121.41284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.76721875000001,"end":125.20971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.32346875,"end":127.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.60159375,"end":131.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.22159375,"end":131.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.57159375,"end":133.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.88346875000002,"end":136.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.48221875000002,"end":151.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.21409375000002,"end":165.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.20534375,"end":153.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.62534375,"end":178.21409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.24846875,"end":174.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.23096875000002,"end":196.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.53471875000002,"end":178.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.06346875,"end":199.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.96596875,"end":220.30034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.54909375000003,"end":253.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.93221875,"end":253.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.94909375,"end":253.96596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.96596875000003,"end":272.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.44409375000004,"end":307.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.74659375000005,"end":311.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.03284375000004,"end":314.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.81721875,"end":315.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.08284375,"end":327.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.87596875,"end":317.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.87846875,"end":334.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.20659375,"end":338.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.96534375000005,"end":339.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.36596875000004,"end":355.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.66534375000003,"end":342.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.87409375000004,"end":359.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.33784375000005,"end":361.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.76784375,"end":388.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.21909375,"end":402.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.05659375000005,"end":434.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.94909375000003,"end":416.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.96721875000003,"end":442.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.93659375000004,"end":453.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.02034375000005,"end":446.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.41596875000005,"end":460.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.14471875000004,"end":460.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.43159375000005,"end":460.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.44846875,"end":460.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.63409375000003,"end":463.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.85346875000005,"end":474.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.08034375000005,"end":467.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.04971875,"end":477.55971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.85971875,"end":489.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.54096875000005,"end":494.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.55784375,"end":489.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.45159375000003,"end":508.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.82159375000003,"end":502.83846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.92284375,"end":503.29409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.43284375,"end":506.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.14159375,"end":507.47909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.03596875000005,"end":508.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.93034375,"end":509.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.75721875000005,"end":510.39846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":4.193,"text":"我們都是優雅的台灣人不過不好意思我們今天在討論營養午餐的事情到現在已經好像已經一點一點鐘了大家都還沒有用餐比較不好意思所以我簡短趕快問一下請問一下"},{"start":25.573,"end":54.235,"text":"這個有一個北女的歐姓的老師受訪的時候她稱學生說不是網軍就是青鳥甚至用腦殘等字眼羞辱學生我不曉得這件事情教育部後續有沒有去了解台北市教育局他們的後續的這個了解程度是怎麼樣這有沒有違反這個教育基本法行政中立的原則有嗎因為這是發生在1月8號的事情到現在有10天的時間了我不曉得後續的教育部了解情況怎麼樣"},{"start":57.298,"end":59.264,"text":"有吗还没有了解"},{"start":61.567,"end":87.458,"text":"这个跟委员报告我们没有特别了解但是我们也在媒体里面看到台北市教育局也确实提醒老师在校园里面许多的对学生行为上的一些描述可能还是要注意到老师可以骂学生脑残吗我想这当然不疑的因为过去是有学生因为"},{"start":88.319,"end":98.397,"text":"因为贝老师这一个不当言语上的一个霸凌这一个就直接到法院去控诉所以脑残算不算是言语上的霸凌"},{"start":99.417,"end":127.019,"text":"我想這個是不疑的不疑的很肯定那我覺得去了解一下台北市交易局他們後續有沒有針對這個事情做了解好不好可以下班前我們會跟我們好謝謝那我們現在還是討論這個營養午餐那我們現在有這個交易部有專法送到行政院去了後來是因為這個財化法之後因為經費分配的問題所以現在是卡住是不是主要是因為經費的問題"},{"start":128.609,"end":153.074,"text":"主要就是因應這個財劃法財劃法它確實對許多的教育部直接撥到因為我們3700多已經撥到地方去了其實我覺得這時候是討論營養午餐一個很好的時機你說現在全國只有兩個縣市營養午餐就是由政府來出就是新北市跟嘉義市這兩個還是維持由家長來付"},{"start":156.835,"end":177.484,"text":"然後其他的20個縣市都是由這個地方政府來說所以他們也知道說其實營養午餐是屬於這個地方自治的事項所以我覺得這個時候應該是來討論營養午餐一個好時機那既然大家地方政府也都有這個共識他們也理解這是屬於地方自治的事情但是呢中央還是有一些基本的規範"},{"start":179.105,"end":196.059,"text":"規範在就是讓地方政府不會說有錢的縣市讓他可能有更多的資源他可以讓這一個學生有比較好的營養午餐或是營養比較豐富的但是財力比較差的這些縣市可能就比較沒有辦法所以我提幾個第一個就是說"},{"start":197.153,"end":219.901,"text":"之前大家也都有提過如果現在營養師的分配的話我看我們草案是550名學生或是20班增設一名營養師這是我們草案的內容所以說人力要怎麼去補足這部分是屬於地方的事情還是說我們中央就立一個規範然後經費部分就是由地方來做處理"},{"start":221.601,"end":242.913,"text":"我想我们确实现在在定一个规划就是朝五百五十有一名那当然这一个就地方它当然属于地方的一个自治的权责所以我们当然也会把它纳入一个在未来地方在办理这一个营养午餐的时候确保这一个学童用的安全用的放心是健康的"},{"start":243.713,"end":265.923,"text":"好的一个品质所以这些都是变成我们在未来对地方的推动营养午餐的一个减核的指标对 我是觉得说是可以做一个规范性因为之前的话就是说比如说按照这个比例的话我们要新增新聘大概200多位营养师那时候教育部有提到说那会增加大概2.7亿的经费"},{"start":267.123,"end":285.419,"text":"整個加起來可能會多達20幾億如果說這個專法定了之後但是我是覺得利用這個機會好好的去跟地方政府談比如說大家如果認為說我看很多委員版本也都是跟我們這個專法一樣550名學生或20班然後這個偏遠地區再做一個調整"},{"start":286.32,"end":314.047,"text":"然後這個經費這個地方怎麼樣去做處理我覺得就是讓地方政府了解說我們中央有這個規範這是第一個第二個就是說這個三張一Q因為現在據我了解六都的話它應該都有編列的這個預算因為本來是由政府中央政府來出那現在是不是我了解是六都都已經有編列預算但是我不知道非六都的到底有沒有把這個三張一Q都把它編進去"},{"start":314.878,"end":339.561,"text":"今年度跟委員報告我們會後我們也會全面的了解初步的理解是地方是有編的但是是不是22個縣市群我講我們的訊息都是有的但是我們可以來檢視更詳細的檢視他15年的一個預算跟114裡面在這個部分是不是一致目前還沒有還沒有這個資料就對了"},{"start":340.447,"end":358.116,"text":"下班前可以提問給我們因為我們是想了解主席不好意思我就最後這個問題把它問好就是說我們是希望就是說營養午餐現在就是如果有家長不用出了政府來出地方政府來出但是不要影響到這個三張AQ這個政策是"},{"start":358.956,"end":378.923,"text":"我們的立場是跟委員是一致的我有擔心說有些地方政府他的財力比較不夠但是因為大家都有了他也不好意思說沒有會有壓力但是實際上過去這筆預算是由中央來出但是現在要由地方來出會不會因為有一個地方因為這個營養午餐全面由地方政府來補助他們為了"},{"start":380.664,"end":402.359,"text":"守住这个地方政府补助但是我们原来有的这个三张一Q因为我们这个没有强制性嘛我们只是说希望这样子做过去也是由中央政府来补嘛那我们担心说这样子会让这些这个非六都的这些县市的孩子们那可能在这个三张一Q这个这方面的食材就没有了"},{"start":403.223,"end":419.322,"text":"跟委員報告 委員所擔心我們當然希望這個地方政府也能夠理解我們331Q 比如委員所關鍵是38億本來在這個中央的統籌分配管就直接撥到地方了所以我們也提醒地方縣市交易局處"},{"start":419.963,"end":446.198,"text":"就有一個有一些屬於教育部原來的一般補助的這些錢變成中央統籌款的時候你也一定要把這一個經費匡列在你們年度的預算也要跟地方縣市首長讓他們充分的了解對那所以部長你剛才也是說你要提醒或是說這個讓他們知道但是呢這個其實都沒有強制性我們會納入年度的考核跟資訊的揭露我想"},{"start":446.998,"end":465.413,"text":"來自於明顯的縣市所長他必須要對縣市的一個家長來負責任嘛是沒錯那所以我說為什麼這個時機點就是來討論營養午餐專法因為你如果在專法裡面其實你如果沒有列出來的話那地方政府就會說我想做但是我真的沒有錢啊減額的機制我們也會跟地方來討論然後"},{"start":467.515,"end":488.076,"text":"希望能够建立共识在未来每一年里边我们会把地方在实时在推动好了再顺便答复好了不难讲完就可以了的一个成效我们也希望能够透过知性结构跟能够甚至编一些这个经会来奖励这些办得好的"},{"start":489.637,"end":507.272,"text":"那我覺得說 既然這個因為財化法重新修正了那我們這一個 部裡面的專法我覺得就是做必要的調整跟修正啦我還是希望說有這個部的專法送到行政院那邊之後還沒有送到立法院來之前其實都可以再做調整的好不好好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167177","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167177","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851076e46783bdd2953c02888e1e08ec37137d2db32b336acc636b0844119b6f4c45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"12:54:36 - 13:03:00","影片長度":"00:08:24","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:54:36+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:03:00+08:00","duration":504,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.5915937500000004,"end":5.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.27471875,"end":7.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.88971875,"end":13.446593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.446593750000002,"end":71.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.23471875,"end":75.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.96846875,"end":82.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.84909375000001,"end":102.61409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.06971875,"end":111.03471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":111.96284375,"end":123.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.81784375000001,"end":181.13346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.46034375000002,"end":168.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.85471875000002,"end":204.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.85096875000002,"end":208.89284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.21346875,"end":210.69846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.74909375000001,"end":212.25096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.65596875,"end":222.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.37596875000003,"end":223.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.37159375000002,"end":225.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.02096875,"end":239.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.82909375000003,"end":244.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.76909375000002,"end":248.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.60409375,"end":275.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.65034375,"end":280.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.47659375,"end":306.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.58221875000004,"end":312.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.99471875,"end":316.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.82534375,"end":319.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.06534375,"end":326.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":326.88284375,"end":330.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.35909375,"end":334.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":334.49346875000003,"end":337.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.79721875,"end":341.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.80034375,"end":355.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.58284375,"end":357.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.16909375,"end":362.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.04596875000004,"end":370.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.84221875000003,"end":378.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.40721875,"end":376.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.70596875,"end":404.22096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.89471875000004,"end":385.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.91159375,"end":385.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.94534375,"end":386.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.08034375,"end":386.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.40659375,"end":409.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.63784375,"end":414.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.67159375,"end":411.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.96659375,"end":412.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.24909375000004,"end":413.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.19409375000004,"end":415.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.06721875000005,"end":447.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.69971875000005,"end":419.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.71971875,"end":426.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.39471875000004,"end":426.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.02846875,"end":452.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.52971875000003,"end":455.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.46596875,"end":457.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.70221875000004,"end":458.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.17034375000003,"end":469.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.24596875000003,"end":460.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.91159375,"end":493.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.08034375000005,"end":494.43471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.81846875,"end":496.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.03784375000004,"end":496.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.47659375,"end":500.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.84284375000004,"end":504.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.23471875,"end":505.63971875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.671,"end":7.005,"text":"喘口氣喔那接下來請正部長好 有請正部長"},{"start":12.912,"end":40.891,"text":"委員好部長好今天你們有一個議題主要就是討論有關於校式會議的相關的修正法案我剛剛基本上我的想法跟羅志祥委員的建議是很一致的就是說其實現在我們在學校裡面我們看到很多的組織跌床駕屋我們有教評會有教師申訴會議有考核會又搞一個校式會議但實際上他們的組織功能基本上是差不多大同小異"},{"start":41.832,"end":71.435,"text":"那可是你在中小学里面又设置这么多的各不同的委员会那么已经让老师们在教学负担之外他要承担行政的工作然后还要再分心再去处理这么多会议的事情所以校师会议到底有没有存在的必要或是他就可以回归到原来的教评会议或是学校里面的教务会议甚至学生有学生申诉会然后教师有教师申诉会回到那个地方去处理会不会更好"},{"start":73.959,"end":82.676,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心其實中小學跟大學看起來有一點還是有教育階段上的一些差別"},{"start":83.925,"end":110.823,"text":"简单来讲我们当时的一个教师法如果我没记错是民国83年83年通过以后我们是定义老师他是一个教学专业所以许多包含老师的一个聘用所有的聘聘不续任续聘不续聘全部都回到中小学的一个校教评会里边但是随着这个社会的一个变迁我们看到"},{"start":112.548,"end":131.363,"text":"這個特定的一些社會的一個發展也發生了校園的一些事件所以108年就另外成立了一個校事會議好的 謝謝部長其實這個歷史我知道我只是想說你們的當時的想法跟實務的操作面上面其實就出現了嚴重的落差"},{"start":131.903,"end":156.372,"text":"就是后来想到的这个多设立在校师会议的组织并不赢得学校或是老师们的欢迎而且徒增非常多的困扰当然这个不是我今天我主要要质询的议题我只是认为说其实教育部真的是要好好的去体谅基层老师们的他们的一些想法要去这个体察这个基层老师的民意你们现在搞了这么多的这个组织"},{"start":156.972,"end":180.923,"text":"事实上就是跌床嫁屋那现在今天本席主要还是要跟还是要问有关于就是我们在去年通过去年年底通过退休金提款法案里面那现在教育部对于这个在职退休就已经退休的老师们的审定函你们准备什么时候重新制作而且要停扣老师们的退休金你们现在想法是什么"},{"start":183.375,"end":204.497,"text":"对我想回到这个前面的这个PPT里面可以很清楚知道在我们的公立学校教职员退休之前辅助条例37条跟38条里面其实都已经非常清楚的谈到所有的退休金所得替代率就要回到112年所以呢理论上你现在对于已经退休的或是说已经申请退休的这个老师们的审定函你都要重新要公布"},{"start":207.229,"end":234.057,"text":"什麼時候要發給新的審定函跟委員報告因為這個法案是12月28號生效的那因為有作業上的時間還有系統上必須要去做一些調整所以我們在1月2號的時候已經通函給各主管機關我們會請他們先按照舊的替代率先去作業12月28號之後退休的"},{"start":234.717,"end":243.312,"text":"那之後我們利用半年的時間將這個系統調整好我們會重新再審理好 那看起來你們現在做法會跟前期不一樣是不是就是還需要半年的時間"},{"start":244.867,"end":269.06,"text":"是 因為涉及到系統重新要規劃的問題就這個部分 因為外界其實已經有很多批評的聲音了覺得說我們現在教育部 權術部 行政院整個的數位化程度非常的差一個簡單改參數的事情還要弄到半年之久這是很多退休的公教人員無法忍受的事情而且你們講半年 半年是指什麼意思"},{"start":269.58,"end":293.495,"text":"有一個明確的確定的時間嗎是指6月31號之前所有的新的審定還都會核發出去嗎這半年我們會將所有的系統重新調整完畢然後逐步的現在大家就是對於賴政府沒有信心嘛你看像是這個員警的退休所的替代率的提高也沒有編預算然後的軍人加急也沒有發那明明我們法律也都通過了這個公教退休金停侃"},{"start":294.415,"end":319.657,"text":"然後呢一個簡單的系統作業也要搞到半年而且你半年還沒有一個明確的確定的時間但看起來如果按照這個權序部還有行政院這些的報告似乎是要等到釋憲大法官這個憲法裁判做成之後你們才有可能會依法行政嗎請問這個政部長您的看法我們的法律通過之後是不是教育部就應該要依法行政了"},{"start":320.1,"end":340.777,"text":"我想這一個因為院裡邊確實有在提示線所以我們作為一個團隊這個整體來講我們也是在依法行政那當然你們是依什麼法你們是依尊榮泰的法還是依賴清德的法他說的算嗎我本事要這邊要強調的這個就是一個基本的法律的ABC"},{"start":341.878,"end":362.057,"text":"你行政機關就是要依法行政重視行政機關有提起釋憲但是在大法官做出憲法裁判之前你們還是有依法行政執行的義務這是你們的責任今天行政院他這個拒不執行法律教育部也要跟著做嗎"},{"start":363.046,"end":377.473,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個法如同剛剛我跟委員報告的12月28號就已經生效了我們並沒有並沒有不依照法律來執行這樣的好 所以就是說就算你們有作業時間但是我們需要行政作業的一個時程"},{"start":378.746,"end":403.8,"text":"好那你们要有时间注意的时辰本期希望你们能够加速不要搞半年而且你们的半年时间也是个模糊的不确定的概念到底是指的6月31号还指的8月31你要从哪个时候还开始起算如果说能够今天给我一个明确答复说6月31号之前所有的退休审定函你们都会亲自做全部核发送到每个退休老师们的手上那本期当然就"},{"start":404.58,"end":425.183,"text":"考量你們的辛勞也許還可以接受但是你的半年就不確定啊然後依照情緒部的做法好 本席在這邊就提醒你們呼籲你們要求你們必須要依法行政必須要依法行政那麼另外呢還有另外一個議題很快的就問一下因為我們知道其實教育部在之前呢已經有"},{"start":426.024,"end":455.123,"text":"委员这个时间上面就不要书面咨询好吗不好意思一分钟就好了教育部在去年12月底已经调账了公立中小学的兼任及待课教室终点费调到20%但是本席最近有收到一些就是老师们的陈情认为说那为什么对于这个课后的课后照顾班的老师的加班费却没有随着终点费来调这个部分是不是教育部的疏漏"},{"start":456.736,"end":479.578,"text":"还是你们刻意不想调委员这个涉及到课后以及他使用者付费的原则怕会加重家长的负担这个容许由我们跟地方政府再洽谈好不好是因为我想这也是涉及到老师们的权益因为这个从101年到现在已经十几年过去了都没有调那既然就是说现在的所有的终点费都调升了对于课后的这个"},{"start":481.079,"end":503.594,"text":"加班費 其實也應該要隨著來調 這樣的話才能夠讓老師們有意願可以去幫忙課後班 課後的輔導班所以本席這邊提出來 希望教育部能夠儘速檢討好 謝謝翁曉琳委員 那官員請回座 謝謝現在請林倩琪委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167175","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167175","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8515d12cd5d92393b40c02888e1e08ec371128c6ef5ed786e9b25d39fa0c7cb71d35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"12:46:47 - 12:54:30","影片長度":"00:07:43","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:46:47+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:54:30+08:00","duration":463,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.26659375,"end":6.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.152218750000001,"end":8.181593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.93596875,"end":15.876593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.99034375,"end":17.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.559718750000002,"end":22.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.26784375,"end":23.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.58409375,"end":26.355968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.828468750000003,"end":29.781593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.86596875,"end":29.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.91659375,"end":31.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.05971875,"end":40.767218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.290343750000005,"end":49.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.234718750000006,"end":47.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.15409375,"end":51.820343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.220968750000004,"end":57.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.625343750000006,"end":58.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.05971875,"end":59.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.375968750000006,"end":63.008468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.143468750000004,"end":65.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.45534375,"end":66.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.80534375,"end":68.22284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.59409375,"end":73.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.90971875000001,"end":74.58471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.00659375000001,"end":79.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.32221875,"end":81.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.46534375,"end":83.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.73096875,"end":85.09784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.60409375,"end":87.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.23659375000001,"end":94.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.20596875000001,"end":99.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.43721875,"end":101.98971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.08659375,"end":103.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.21721875,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.47846875,"end":108.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.65534375,"end":111.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.77721875,"end":113.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.47721875,"end":120.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.51409375,"end":125.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.15471875000001,"end":127.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.77471875,"end":129.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.78284375,"end":131.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.79096875000002,"end":140.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.88659375,"end":142.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.57409375,"end":146.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.91096875,"end":153.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.79596875000001,"end":160.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.10284375,"end":169.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.52346875,"end":172.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.66221875000002,"end":174.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.14284375,"end":180.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.39096875,"end":185.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.67284375,"end":186.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.12409375000001,"end":189.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.60471875000002,"end":191.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.81534375,"end":195.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.61221875,"end":202.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.37471875,"end":222.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.81471875000003,"end":237.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.20471875,"end":246.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.99659375000002,"end":261.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.91409375,"end":273.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.41034375000004,"end":272.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.10221875,"end":273.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.86159375,"end":276.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.92909375,"end":274.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.99221875,"end":275.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.66284375000004,"end":277.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.06784375,"end":279.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.46409375,"end":279.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.73409375,"end":281.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.21471875000003,"end":287.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.74971875,"end":297.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.34721875,"end":299.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.98409375,"end":302.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.68409375000005,"end":308.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.72534375000004,"end":309.82221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.49721875,"end":311.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.74596875000003,"end":338.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.43346875000003,"end":314.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.18409375000005,"end":316.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.49596875000003,"end":319.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.58409375,"end":321.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.38909375000003,"end":329.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.05409375000005,"end":339.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.69096875,"end":347.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.30159375,"end":348.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.97221875,"end":351.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.36409375,"end":356.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.86971875,"end":360.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.05471875,"end":363.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.49721875,"end":366.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.94409375000004,"end":371.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.47909375,"end":373.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.64346875,"end":374.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.68534375,"end":380.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.84909375,"end":382.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.94159375000004,"end":385.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.77659375,"end":391.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.98659375,"end":392.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.96534375000005,"end":396.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.28971875,"end":401.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.73596875000004,"end":413.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.54471875,"end":414.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.56534375,"end":429.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.94034375,"end":419.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.02721875000003,"end":442.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.55034375,"end":430.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.71471875000003,"end":431.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.81159375000004,"end":432.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.57846875,"end":438.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.67534375,"end":439.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.79346875000005,"end":447.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.00346875,"end":449.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.72034375000004,"end":452.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.23909375000005,"end":451.01534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.82909375,"end":457.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.89159375,"end":461.59596875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.478,"end":23.826,"text":"主席 各位委員 有請部長好 請部長部長好 辛苦了請問一下部長 援助民族教育程度的提升重不重要當然重要"},{"start":24.939,"end":51.462,"text":"对原住民族而言比非原住民族更为重要我想委员也非常清楚我求学的背景跟很多原住民同学到现在还有非常深度的一些联系这表示我对多原族群不同的一个关照我想我从年轻时代接下来的这个质询请你重视"},{"start":53.271,"end":80.796,"text":"本席特别提出原住民族教育法第23条的规定特别针对以各校就说高中高级中等以上的学校最主要是针对大专校院的以各校园核定招生名额外加5%以上来计算希望能够名列在这个原住民族教育法里面来规定这个理由"},{"start":82.523,"end":101.796,"text":"首先讓部長了解一下事實上在民國五十幾年民國五十幾年我們考高中考大學就是外加25%以前是省政府教育廳所訂的後來改為由教育部76年的時候由教育部來訂這個最主要的"},{"start":103.134,"end":120.557,"text":"因为在95年的时候,改为外加2%,然后我经过多次的咨询,后来教育部修正了这个办法。"},{"start":122.285,"end":139.904,"text":"2%之外还可以专案调高比例专案调高比例后来我质询这个当时的教育部长可以专案调高部分的科系5%但是实施这么多年之后"},{"start":140.956,"end":151.506,"text":"你看看我们的近五年大专校院学生的出债协力107学年度差距原住民跟非原住民的差距31.9%到了113学年度差距高达36.85%"},{"start":161.175,"end":179.927,"text":"所以这样的一个情形之下本席一直希望教育部能够把专案调高5%的科系能够扩大但是非常非常的有限所以本席才会提出本来我本席也提出过是不是修你们的办法"},{"start":180.507,"end":202.447,"text":"全部搞的外加百分之五以上但是到现在为止都没有修所以本席不得不提出从原住民主教育法来彻底的来去解决请问部长你认为要采行哪一种方式你要修你的办法还是支持本席修原住民主教育法"},{"start":204.225,"end":220.336,"text":"謝謝委員對研究民學生的受教的許多的一些機會上的一些關心我想跟委員報告委員也非常熟悉我們其實在大學這個大學校園的這個部分我們目前的一個外加2%事實上"},{"start":223.202,"end":237.462,"text":"就我的理解我们教育的现场大学大概都没有招满也就是说我们有一定的这些年的一个教育的一个普及援助民主的一个学生他们其实有很多的用学测用推针他们就"},{"start":238.343,"end":256.837,"text":"就完全不比我們一般的學生在幾多的表現來得不好甚至有一定比例的是更好所以它並沒有走那個保障的機制這個2%裡面確實以我們了解現在並沒有全然招滿"},{"start":257.637,"end":272.466,"text":"那當然如果5%我們研內部可以再來一個研議簡單來講現在除了2%以外我們還有一些可以因為專班因為我們也鼓勵各大學設研民中心或是部長"},{"start":273.905,"end":297.693,"text":"你这个说明之前也是说明过了你们的次长也说明过了最重要的是我们的原住民出债协力大专学生的出债协力落差一再的增加到36.85%重点在这边你刚讲的包括专班都列入进去了"},{"start":298.413,"end":309.649,"text":"都已经算进去了但是这个扩大还在扩大所以这个部分请部长一定要第一个你要赶快修你的办法这是最快的"},{"start":310.783,"end":338.092,"text":"可以嗎我們來研議因為我們跟顏明慧在一起來討論也跟委員報告顏明慧當然支持我認為事實上我們從原住民這個實驗學校裡邊從小學國中我們現在開始在鼓勵有高中的實驗學校進來我想有高中接著他去接大學這個一段時間他一定會有一個更好的一些在大學上的表現"},{"start":339.773,"end":362.039,"text":"这个出债协力一定要好好仔细看落差高达36.85%而这个部分也会涉及到教育经费你看原住民族的教育经费115学年度比14学年度比去年减少4400多万"},{"start":364.591,"end":380.017,"text":"减少4400多万所以这个部分是一个要去解决的问题另外你看看演兵会演兵会他编了推展南岛民族有关教育及传统经济交流"},{"start":380.902,"end":401.625,"text":"南岛民族国际交流不应列为原住民族教育经费原住民族教育法里面完全没有提到国际交流所以这个部分教育部在整体审查的时候编列预算的时候就要跟严明辉讲这个不应该编列在这里所以如果再扣掉这个部分了"},{"start":402.776,"end":420.215,"text":"我们115年度的教育经费真的是少了少了少了很多谢谢委员提醒我想我们对原住民教育的关心跟委员的态度是一致的刚才提到那个4000多万"},{"start":420.715,"end":441.617,"text":"那個事實上是因為因應財務法把這些的經費就直接撥到這個地方縣市教育局但是不能犧牲原住民族的教育不會 不會犧牲 好不好事實上就減少了所以這個部分這個請教育部再把詳細的報告這個再提供可以 我們會後再把一些相關資料提供給我們"},{"start":442.257,"end":461.39,"text":"就請教育部長給正委員後面之後的這個質詢包括那個外加5%那個部分好 謝謝鄭天才委員那官員請回座現在請翁曉琳委員質詢部長請回座 喝一下水"}]}},{"id":"167174","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167174","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8519fe30b9d71885762c02888e1e08ec371128c6ef5ed786e9bcdaf6cb2d6319c8e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"12:42:24 - 12:46:39","影片長度":"00:04:15","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:42:24+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:46:39+08:00","duration":255,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":25.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.79471875,"end":27.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.874718750000003,"end":28.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.95471875,"end":38.438468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.438468750000006,"end":40.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.58159375,"end":51.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.579718750000005,"end":80.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.25909375,"end":79.39409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.79471875,"end":81.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.89159375,"end":81.92534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.04346875,"end":85.28346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.87409375,"end":86.38034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.89096875,"end":91.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.50596875000001,"end":99.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.25596875000001,"end":104.09909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.33534375,"end":105.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.03971875,"end":111.86159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.51971875000001,"end":131.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.76346875,"end":118.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.90909375,"end":140.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.36346875,"end":140.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.05534375000002,"end":152.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.98596875,"end":159.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.97221875,"end":160.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.41096875000002,"end":160.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.49534375000002,"end":160.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.69784375,"end":177.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.39221875,"end":173.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.16346875000002,"end":196.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.53221875,"end":194.98784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.16909375,"end":196.28721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.28721875000002,"end":196.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.33784375000002,"end":196.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.43909375,"end":196.65846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.65846875000003,"end":196.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.70909375000002,"end":196.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.75971875000002,"end":196.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.46846875,"end":217.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.76909375000002,"end":225.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.66659375,"end":225.73409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.73409375000003,"end":225.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.97034375,"end":227.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.74221875,"end":247.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.55159375000002,"end":232.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.68034375000002,"end":247.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.43534375000002,"end":247.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.51971875,"end":247.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.53659375,"end":248.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.58721875,"end":248.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.27909375000002,"end":248.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.46471875,"end":248.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.97096875000003,"end":249.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.18596875000003,"end":253.99971875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":24.09,"text":"你這個政策本來就是要來修理老師然後那無所謂政策目的跟大家反應是一致的老師覺得你們這樣做不公平不對可是你既然都我看你今天的詢答你都告訴大家這是為了老師來解決問題了結果你弄到老師們全都不高興那就證明兩件事情嘛教育部事前溝通就沒做好嘛這一點我覺得部長你總不會否認吧否則為什麼老師們搞得這麼生氣這麼擔憂呢"},{"start":26.837,"end":51.143,"text":"沒錯吧溝通要加強吧應該要繼續加強溝通這當然我們悉心接受對啊因為民主法治的社會當然跟教師團體還有一定的部長我是為您好如果真的如你所說這是幫老師們解決問題的話那你怎麼會弄到說老師們都出來抗議第二個就是說那也顯現過去我覺得教育部跟老師之間的互信不夠"},{"start":52.837,"end":69.575,"text":"如果真的是你讲的是解决问题的话那今天老师们不相信教育部那教育部自己也要去检讨但实际上老师们担心是不是也不是杞人忧天我举几个例子比方说你现在老师们也是认为你新增一个审议校师会议是否受以"},{"start":70.636,"end":84.623,"text":"這個的會議 由校外專家聘集由校長聘集外聘專家 校士會議是教師代表跟家長代表 四人組成審議小組我想請問只要有人陳情是不是就開始啟動這個會了我們當時為了解決這一個小案大辦"},{"start":90.325,"end":111.552,"text":"所以在這個調查小組裡面它事實上有校內的老師代表有家長代表只有一位是屬於校外的公正人士我這樣子把老師們的疑慮講給部長聽他們認為說第一個這叫跌床架屋嘛你本來就有一個校事會上面再架一個房子上去然後呢"},{"start":112.572,"end":129.177,"text":"耗損資源你還是不可能透過這方式來解決爛數的問題這老師們的疑慮啦你反正多了一道序多了一道序因為你們搭配了這個不但跟校事會議功能重疊權力也更直接嘛那裡面辦法對老師尋談 觀客 誤談這些報告條款"},{"start":132.148,"end":152.385,"text":"你就是在增加老師們再多一道程序上的負擔這是老師們的疑慮你覺得這個疑慮出發點有錯嗎我們怎麼樣讓老師放心我想一直是我們努力的但是要跟我們報告就是因為過去其實只是我講的一個班級經營上的一個疏漏"},{"start":153.106,"end":177.328,"text":"还不应该进入到校事会议但是我们现在因为小案大办全部都到校事会议本来他不处理我最后因为时间问题中间其实就有一个沟通的盲点你是希望这个所谓的前置的会议来去减少送援减少那个申诉员对处理员可是事实上有没有办法做到答案是问号嘛"},{"start":178.229,"end":196.581,"text":"那很可能如果没有做到搞了半天最后进到这个地方的案子没有减少那案子审出来也没减少进到校室会议这才是老师们今天担忧的问题他没有办法透过一个外观你多了一道会议的程序他认为就能够达到所谓减少这个所谓烂数的问题嘛不是吗"},{"start":197.501,"end":213.097,"text":"跟委員報告這個我們建立的這個機制是希望朝更好的那當然還剛開始那另外一個委員剛才所關心的我心存感謝我們來看怎麼樣累積這個食物那第二個就是說因為爛樹這個不具名的這一個把他先"},{"start":217.822,"end":237.634,"text":"等於說不處理的時候我想對第一線上的老師一定程度我相信隨著時間他一定會有感好 最後只有一句話不要好心辦壞事也不要好心被人家認為你辦壞事這是第一個前面好心辦壞事是你把事情搞砸那教育部就要彈彈起車"},{"start":238.234,"end":247.188,"text":"但如果说你今天没有打算把事情搞砸就人家认为会把事情搞砸那就沟通跟互信出了问题拜托教育部要好好检讨这方面的问题"}]}},{"id":"167173","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167173","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8512ce62f480c43a925e1f8a6d37bdd8b89128c6ef5ed786e9bc47a71c4ccfca2305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"12:31:09 - 12:43:21","影片長度":"00:12:12","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:31:09+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:43:21+08:00","duration":732,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.11909375,"end":4.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.24534375,"end":5.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.814093750000001,"end":10.847843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.847843750000003,"end":10.864718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.864718750000002,"end":25.731593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.86659375,"end":47.213468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.36534375,"end":53.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.03534375,"end":53.102843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.102843750000005,"end":53.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.38971875,"end":53.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.406593750000006,"end":53.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.69346875,"end":61.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.46034375000001,"end":60.814718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.31659375,"end":111.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.15971875000001,"end":67.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.18909375,"end":68.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.44159375000001,"end":72.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.99596875,"end":89.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.18159375,"end":89.29971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.88784375,"end":106.15784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.13159375000001,"end":150.70784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.56846875000002,"end":175.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.05721875,"end":156.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.11534375000002,"end":162.19971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.70971875,"end":166.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.09659375,"end":178.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.56409375,"end":204.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.78784375,"end":229.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.98034375,"end":216.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.03096875,"end":216.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.95846875,"end":220.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.99221875,"end":221.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.35471875000002,"end":223.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.93596875,"end":251.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.91409375,"end":234.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.93096875,"end":235.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.40346875,"end":235.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.56346875000003,"end":237.96846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.67659375000002,"end":242.76096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.01409375000003,"end":243.04784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.81034375000002,"end":251.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.12659375,"end":254.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.60721875000002,"end":276.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.92284375,"end":260.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.89659375,"end":266.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.80784375,"end":266.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.09471875,"end":267.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.35534375000003,"end":273.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.32534375,"end":312.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.90721875,"end":280.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.94409375000004,"end":341.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.37784375,"end":320.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.36909375000005,"end":320.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.25909375000003,"end":322.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.73096875000005,"end":327.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.90784375000004,"end":329.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.58659375,"end":333.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.39659375,"end":333.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.80034375,"end":374.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.24221875,"end":349.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.30971875,"end":350.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.96346875,"end":351.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.03096875,"end":352.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.48284375000003,"end":424.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.03221875,"end":487.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.04346875000005,"end":433.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.98409375000006,"end":435.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.15909375,"end":449.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.05659375000005,"end":457.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.11971875,"end":458.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.29659375000006,"end":460.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.84034375000005,"end":464.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.26909375,"end":474.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.09596875000005,"end":475.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.15471875000003,"end":477.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.70284375000006,"end":479.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":479.71971875,"end":480.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.45784375000005,"end":481.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.47471875,"end":481.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.79034375000003,"end":509.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.95971875000004,"end":559.5047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.12784375,"end":514.4990937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.92346875,"end":526.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.5478437500001,"end":526.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.1172187500001,"end":528.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":553.09221875,"end":553.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.09971875,"end":598.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.2547187499999,"end":593.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.9797187500001,"end":617.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.97846875,"end":606.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.38346875,"end":606.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.6865937499999,"end":610.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.53846875,"end":614.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.8628437500001,"end":638.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.29284375,"end":619.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.51971875,"end":626.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.3503437500001,"end":629.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.36659375,"end":633.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.4965937500001,"end":680.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.35659375,"end":644.0147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.7097187500001,"end":652.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.93471875,"end":670.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.0090937500001,"end":681.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.5278437500001,"end":709.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":687.0459687500002,"end":687.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.50971875,"end":689.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.6953437500001,"end":689.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.8472187500001,"end":689.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.10409375,"end":693.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.86346875,"end":694.1840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.47909375,"end":696.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":699.1115937500001,"end":699.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.46596875,"end":699.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":704.37659375,"end":704.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.7009687500001,"end":729.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":729.6384687500001,"end":730.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.70596875,"end":730.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.4734687499999,"end":733.9753437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.419,"end":4.245,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請次長來請次長"},{"start":11.491,"end":38.1,"text":"市長好市長我先就剛剛有幾位委員有特別提到其實我我們現在不論是打開電視或者是收音機或者是網路其實都可以看到很多的健康食品那健康食品都聲稱這個這個功效很好我相信市長您應該自己也有看過甚至那個一個廣告可能就是5分鐘以上的那我不知道說市長針對這一部分你們有什麼樣的"},{"start":39.36,"end":61.19,"text":"因應措施甚至我有聽過就是說有的藥廠或者是做健康食品他們反正他們也不怕法他們賺的更多所以我不知道說市長你針對這一部分你們未來要怎麼去規範這件事情我跟署長這邊我們其實都是支持要更嚴格來看待因為這邊實在是過去灰色地帶太多那我是請署長說明一下"},{"start":62.651,"end":79.032,"text":"這邊跟委員進一步說明我們食品現在就一般食品跟健康食品因為是在健康食品向下去管理現在食品有400多項接近30年的時間的管理所以我去年2月份來了之後發現它是重要的議題"},{"start":79.633,"end":95.632,"text":"所以我們加強研議希望把現在所謂的保健相關食品為什麼叫保健相關食品因為都宣稱是保健食品因為健康食品要有保健功效所以他就把保健食品就納進去的想法在我的想法裡面應該要把那一塊做積極的納管"},{"start":96.633,"end":111.327,"text":"所以署内针对这件事情希望能够在保健相关食品在我们一般食品健康食品中间有一个类似国际其他国家管理的相次叫做功能性相关食品的所以在这样子之下把我们世界上的所谓的"},{"start":112.208,"end":136.238,"text":"特定的成分特定的含量他潛在的可能搞保健跟身體的功效可以宣稱的部分能夠納管所以我們今年一月份呢也連續舉辦了已經完成兩場第三場就是我們相關的食品保健相關的食品功能性相關食品如何去做所謂廣告宣傳宣稱以及他的詞句可以說明做積極的輔導"},{"start":137.378,"end":153.844,"text":"那這個兩天的行程跟委員報告其實非常非常多的業者包括是工協會的包括是學校老師能夠去了解我們希望納管的範圍我想在這樣的納管情形之下如果納管之後還有很多的"},{"start":154.364,"end":177.066,"text":"所謂的不合規的部分我們現在是積極的是裁罰裁罰的部分過去裁罰相對少後來變成嚴重程度重複程度跟以及它的時間的程度我們反而甚至有上百萬的一個廣告不合規的廣告我們是目前是持續的把這個部分做積極的納管在進行當中其實我相信次長跟署長你們"},{"start":180.228,"end":204.403,"text":"應該收音機、電視、網路其實真的是非常的嚴重所以很多人會覺得說這不可以很好彈一個觀念就不可以很好彈甚至在電台上面不論是清晨的從清晨開車的時候打開收音機你聽到幾乎每一台都是在賣健康保健食品所以我都覺得說"},{"start":206.274,"end":226.327,"text":"台灣人 醫療要就醫其實也都蠻方便的有必要去買一些過心臟的 通血路的非常多所以我覺得這一個區塊應該要去更積極的來管理不然真的有的人就是很愛買的買的可能吃了對身體也不一定好"},{"start":229.989,"end":251.449,"text":"我也说得好其实我自己以前临床常常跟病人讲台湾这样子营养充分资源充分你要吃什么都吃得到食品这么多的一个国家还需要吃营养补充品是一件不太合理的事情可能某些情况之下因为自己身体的某些状况他可能需要某些补充品或像刚刚署长提到我们以后变成是一个功能食品但是"},{"start":252.25,"end":272.07,"text":"其实它现在很多都是以食品在贩卖那用食安法用食品的贩卖的方式来用暗示它有疗效所以像刚才有人说的帮老公这个广播里面说哦 没用啊其实根本就不是用啊它是用食品啊 让你吃感觉上自己好像在吃一个比药物更好的东西这是非常不合理的事情"},{"start":272.25,"end":289.544,"text":"我自己在過去聽廣播我還有檢舉過我自己聽完之後拿給食藥署檢舉所以我覺得說應該要更積極的去管理我們會積極管理另外還有一項這也是我最近在地方聽到的我想說先講就是說我們在去年通過80歲免巴氏量表就是可以"},{"start":290.104,"end":312.095,"text":"拼用就是用這樣子可以拼用那個外籍的這個看護工那現在目前有很多的照服員在跟我講他們的案量減少而且減少的非常的多所以我希望就是說次長針對這一部分你們應該要去做一個調查到底我們這個政策下去之後那對照服員是不是有很大的影響"},{"start":313.235,"end":341.303,"text":"這一塊我們其實因為之前有跟勞動部這邊在撈就是說那個照服員還有移工這邊的流動那這個部分我們會持續監控那當然其實主要就是說第一個希望能夠讓我們的原來照服員他的工作服務不受影響第二個部分的話其實就希望說我們的高齡長者能夠受到比較好的照顧不過其實還是真的我們還是要趁機講一下照服員這邊他受過的相關訓練跟專業能力我相信他們能夠提供給我們高齡長者比較好的照顧"},{"start":342.704,"end":361.5,"text":"這個我是聽到一部分那我希望就是說你們應該要去這個調查一下到底是影響是什麼樣的影響那到底影響有多大這我們會回去盤那接下來我想請教就是說今天我們在討論這個藥事法的部分條文修正草案那我記得在前兩年就是我們的那個生理實驗水"},{"start":362.461,"end":377.917,"text":"真的非常誇張就是說沒有生理食鹽水可用那像當然這個修正草案通過之後當然可以可以更進一步提早知道什麼樣的藥品缺那可以及早因應那我想請教就是說"},{"start":379.899,"end":400.831,"text":"未來我們原本就是說要求這個廠商在停產或者是缺貨的這個之前6個月要去回報那如果是不可抗力的因素導致短缺或斷貨就是要求30日前要通報那這個修正草案通過之後那我們要怎麼樣去跟這些業者"},{"start":401.651,"end":430.51,"text":"去溝通可以讓他們真的萬一碰到事情的時候可以更積極然後可以真的可以去解決要不然其實我們立法之後如果沒有很積極再去處理的話其實空有這樣的一個法條其實也我覺得也沒什麼用所以我可不可以請次長針對這部分未來你們是不是有跟業者已經有一個協調那有一個方向其實因為現在其實持續的我跟業者這邊在溝通那有一些業者過去因為我們這邊有兩個部分必要藥品"},{"start":431.17,"end":457.48,"text":"我們本來就有規定他們要通報但是有一些是沒有放在必要藥品裡面的但是可能也是民眾使用量很大的一些藥品所以我們這次包含第一個是希望完備就是說有一些藥品能夠提早能夠預知再來必要藥品這邊當然它如果不可抗力思想因為什麼傳奇因為等等也能夠提早讓我們知道我們能夠來跟健保署這邊去勾結相關的用量有沒有其他的藥品可以趕快能夠來提供供應因為有的藥品它可能有好幾家廠商都是一樣的藥效"},{"start":458.26,"end":487.055,"text":"那这样它过去我们都尊重市场机制但是如果某一家药厂没有办法供应的时候其他药厂可以供进来大概是这个部分那当然这里面我们的这个评估跟短缺当然还是有一个重点是说我们希望在另外我们提出来药品任性那个计划能够强化国内自己的供应链因为很多它可能是国内的原料要断了或者是国外进来断了那我们希望减少这个部分的发生当然如果是药厂这边及早发现有这些问题及早让我们知道我们来协助做因应"},{"start":488.055,"end":509.229,"text":"市長 針對就是說之前在二五戰爭的時候那有一些藥品可能就是短缺嘛那很多國家他們也希望說這個藥品能夠在地化透過這個行政命令或者是用法令的規範就是藥品就是在地化那針對這一部分我們有沒有這樣的一個規範或是未來就朝著這樣的一個方向來進行"},{"start":509.974,"end":527.826,"text":"那跟我原作進一步說明我們這一次除了藥事法修訂以外我們在藥物韌性計畫四年的計畫當中其實對於藥品不管是我們的學名藥製劑或者是我們的什麼原料藥在地方落地其實我們是重要的工作的相似裡面希望能夠增加我們的韌性"},{"start":528.527,"end":543.849,"text":"至於剛才特別提到說我們對於業者或者盤商或者是藥商如何去針對我們要提供訊息的我們目前原則上是大概是希望一劑但是每個藥它的供應的特性會不同"},{"start":544.969,"end":559.314,"text":"會經過裡面會有更短的甚至會大部分都是長啦會有更短的那這個其實藥商其實在協調的過程中我們其實要積極的聽取他們的意見他們的困難能夠達到任性才是我們最主要的目的"},{"start":559.574,"end":577.402,"text":"那次長我再詢問一下就是說最近有一些媽媽他們在講說這個嬰兒奶粉就是這個這個廠牌的嬰兒奶粉品質有出現疑慮那在市面上確實有的嬰兒他原本是吃這個廠牌的那確實也買不到可能這個"},{"start":578.763,"end":598.366,"text":"店家有說可能要等到3月份那我不知道說食藥署針對這一部分有沒有接到什麼樣的訊息或者是我們國內針對這一部分是不是這個奶粉有污染的或者是預防下架我不知道說我們衛福部有沒有針對這一部分來做一個要求業者就是說預防下架的一個"},{"start":599.407,"end":619.473,"text":"跟委員報告就是說當時接到廠商這樣的資訊因為我們自己食藥署也會跟國際上面一直去看國外有沒有這樣的資訊所以我們發現這件事情之後立刻署長這邊就立刻跟廠商這邊去詢問那個受汙染那個批號有沒有進來台灣後來我們調查起來是沒有進來一開始的時候12月份他們announce國際的"},{"start":619.893,"end":635.304,"text":"我們在第一時間裡面其實我們在邊境的輸入的就可以抓到批號是對不起來沒有那除了我們確定以外他們也同時確定到1月份的時候呢香港部分有另外有批號進來所以他們做了一件事情1月6號來這邊做了簡單的說明"},{"start":638.706,"end":652.992,"text":"他們選擇的是趕快進去驗到底有沒有所謂的仙人桿菌素這個污染毒素在裡面驗起來沒有但是我強調的一件事情你驗沒有跟你有沒有進來是兩件事情最後他們在確立"},{"start":654.412,"end":673.451,"text":"是沒辦法排除這個供應鏈的情形之下呢就直接下架所以我們要求他們說要清楚的知道你的供應鏈裡面加上我們對起來的因為進來的批號裡面到底是哪些批號是他們總公司給他們的訊息是哪些批號但是我們有看到相對的是有進來持續他們進來這是大廠嘛"},{"start":675.493,"end":694.565,"text":"持續進來裡面到底是什麼對上那後來他們說他們不是很確定雖然他們在預防性下降以外他們在後市場端先前他自己也驗實際上是沒有毒素的但是他們在企業的社會責任我說你必須在沒有辦法實際上不能完全靠檢驗的情形之下你必須要"},{"start":695.525,"end":709.277,"text":"對自己負責所以他們會有沒有選擇好 那就整個下架我想在整個的管理過程中至於國內目前的嬰兒的奶粉的部分目前是沒有特別提到通報上短缺的一些議題因為有的媽媽她就是買這個廠牌的"},{"start":712.279,"end":728.771,"text":"所以大家就會想說到底是因為什麼樣的原因那也擔心就是說買了之後小孩吃了出現問題所以我們也希望就是說針對食的安全然後用藥安全我覺得這個是食藥署真的非常重大的一個課題那也感謝我們這個次長跟署長謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167184","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167184","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851a8ecf2fa8c2561d375d69df13e4e8eda37d2db32b336acc68b5c004b5ca1c9ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"高金素梅","委員發言時間":"12:10:36 - 12:33:48","影片長度":"00:23:12","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:10:36+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:33:48+08:00","duration":1392,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.24534375,"end":7.202843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.54034375,"end":8.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.40471875,"end":18.711593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.032218750000002,"end":21.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.91346875,"end":28.515968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.87034375,"end":29.882843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.405968750000003,"end":32.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.71784375,"end":34.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.962218750000005,"end":38.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.70846875,"end":39.940343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.564718750000004,"end":41.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.30284375,"end":45.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.268468750000004,"end":48.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.27221875,"end":52.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.140968750000006,"end":55.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.18284375,"end":87.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":87.66284375000001,"end":90.59909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.24909375,"end":89.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.59909375000001,"end":94.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.83471875000001,"end":125.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.39534375000001,"end":155.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":156.93471875,"end":159.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.75284375,"end":160.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":160.88346875000002,"end":177.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.50971875000002,"end":181.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.89346875,"end":178.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.04471875000002,"end":201.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.72096875000003,"end":241.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.03534375,"end":242.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.28846875000002,"end":242.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.44034375,"end":242.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.45721875,"end":246.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.27096875,"end":255.26534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.80534375000002,"end":260.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":261.08721875000003,"end":264.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.68596875000003,"end":263.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":265.06971875,"end":267.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.26346875,"end":275.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.94596875,"end":278.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.69659375000003,"end":277.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.97909375,"end":287.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.14346875,"end":279.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":283.14284375,"end":284.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.96534375000005,"end":285.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.32346875,"end":294.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.10721875,"end":296.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.75659375000004,"end":298.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":299.68034375,"end":306.16034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.07596875,"end":307.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.32471875000005,"end":308.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.05034375,"end":337.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.47596875000005,"end":364.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.86409375000005,"end":366.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.11284375,"end":367.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":367.88909375000003,"end":369.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.40784375000004,"end":369.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":369.98159375,"end":375.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.85034375000004,"end":373.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.76971875000004,"end":375.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":375.90471875000003,"end":378.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":378.57096875,"end":379.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":379.44846875,"end":381.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.19909375000003,"end":384.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.30846875000003,"end":415.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.44471875000005,"end":403.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.95096875,"end":404.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":407.07284375,"end":407.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":414.80159375000005,"end":416.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.74659375000005,"end":421.01159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.38284375,"end":426.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.51284375,"end":443.84346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.86721875,"end":426.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.16409375,"end":450.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.53846875000005,"end":461.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.19159375000004,"end":457.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.03471875,"end":469.18971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.78034375000004,"end":480.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.49596875000003,"end":483.56721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.32659375000003,"end":484.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.95096875,"end":485.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.27159375,"end":488.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.37659375000004,"end":489.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.87846875,"end":493.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.02971875000003,"end":499.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.79721875,"end":497.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.18096875000003,"end":511.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.48409375000006,"end":505.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.28034375000004,"end":510.46596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.02284375000005,"end":512.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.96784375000004,"end":514.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.1784687500001,"end":521.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.00846875,"end":524.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.4890937499999,"end":526.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.4172187500001,"end":526.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.24409375,"end":526.2778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.2778437500001,"end":526.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.88534375,"end":530.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.00721875,"end":536.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.72846875,"end":531.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.92596875,"end":539.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.3559687500001,"end":540.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.5203437499999,"end":540.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.55409375,"end":542.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.7565937500001,"end":542.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.68034375,"end":544.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.08534375,"end":547.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.12659375,"end":551.2022187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.14346875,"end":552.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.3328437499999,"end":554.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.04971875,"end":558.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.0872187500001,"end":561.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.9853437500001,"end":565.9509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.9722187500001,"end":565.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.30534375,"end":566.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.6384687500001,"end":568.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.8490937500001,"end":575.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.3797187499999,"end":577.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.7590937500001,"end":581.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.72909375,"end":582.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.5559687500001,"end":590.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.21284375,"end":595.0434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":597.37221875,"end":598.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.19471875,"end":601.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":601.5403437500001,"end":603.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.53159375,"end":606.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":606.07971875,"end":606.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.21034375,"end":612.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.17159375,"end":616.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.02721875,"end":619.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":622.11096875,"end":625.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.23721875,"end":626.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":626.63346875,"end":626.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.8190937500001,"end":628.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":629.5190937500001,"end":634.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.65346875,"end":633.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.5815937500001,"end":647.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.68159375,"end":642.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.2040937500001,"end":647.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.2378437500001,"end":650.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.0009687500001,"end":652.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.7053437500001,"end":653.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.73034375,"end":655.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.0928437500002,"end":658.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":661.8178437500001,"end":663.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":663.64034375,"end":665.9522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.14221875,"end":666.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":666.3403437500001,"end":669.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.49159375,"end":676.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":676.0772187500002,"end":676.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.9040937500001,"end":679.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":680.2453437500001,"end":685.7465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":686.0672187499999,"end":688.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":688.7334687500002,"end":691.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":691.61909375,"end":694.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":694.9097187500001,"end":696.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.51284375,"end":696.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":697.4240937500001,"end":698.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.77409375,"end":700.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":701.00159375,"end":702.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.55409375,"end":709.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.74284375,"end":714.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.09221875,"end":722.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.6015937500001,"end":726.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.5672187499999,"end":731.0053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":731.54534375,"end":732.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":733.4015937500001,"end":742.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.03721875,"end":745.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.7665937500001,"end":748.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.3484687499999,"end":753.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.01409375,"end":760.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":756.28409375,"end":757.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":760.7222187500001,"end":761.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.9540937500001,"end":763.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":764.31659375,"end":769.5647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":770.6615937500001,"end":771.6572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":772.3828437500001,"end":775.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":775.40346875,"end":780.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":779.31846875,"end":779.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":780.58409375,"end":781.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":780.61784375,"end":784.9209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":782.7947187500001,"end":783.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":784.0265937500001,"end":793.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":788.44784375,"end":788.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.54846875,"end":794.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":794.92784375,"end":801.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":801.5090937500001,"end":803.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":804.90096875,"end":809.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":808.46159375,"end":813.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":815.75159375,"end":818.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":819.3459687500001,"end":824.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":824.8472187500001,"end":826.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.85534375,"end":839.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":839.08971875,"end":851.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":852.47159375,"end":853.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":854.71596875,"end":857.9053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":859.1709687500002,"end":860.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":861.87096875,"end":866.5959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":866.7309687500001,"end":869.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":870.2747187500001,"end":892.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":893.7647187500002,"end":900.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":901.5947187500001,"end":913.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":912.1415937500001,"end":915.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":917.9128437500001,"end":919.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":919.0265937500001,"end":919.0772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":919.0772187500002,"end":919.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":919.09409375,"end":919.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":919.1784687500001,"end":919.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":919.93784375,"end":928.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":929.52284375,"end":947.3428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":947.64659375,"end":950.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":950.4309687500001,"end":964.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":966.12471875,"end":967.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":968.21721875,"end":974.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":975.20346875,"end":979.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":979.7765937500001,"end":981.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":983.42159375,"end":988.2647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":989.0578437500001,"end":1013.9990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1014.47159375,"end":1015.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1015.06221875,"end":1015.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1016.69909375,"end":1017.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1018.5890937500001,"end":1019.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1020.09096875,"end":1022.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1022.20034375,"end":1024.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1025.3897187500002,"end":1028.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1029.3384687500002,"end":1032.0047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1032.4097187500001,"end":1043.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1043.73284375,"end":1044.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1045.70721875,"end":1050.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1050.92159375,"end":1058.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1059.4603437500002,"end":1061.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1061.9747187500002,"end":1063.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1063.56096875,"end":1064.5059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1065.70409375,"end":1070.3953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1070.9690937500002,"end":1073.5172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1074.0740937500002,"end":1084.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1086.0384687500002,"end":1090.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1092.1640937500001,"end":1093.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1094.3240937500002,"end":1094.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1095.2859687500002,"end":1100.2472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1101.15846875,"end":1104.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1102.69409375,"end":1105.3097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1105.76534375,"end":1109.2247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1109.3428437500002,"end":1116.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1114.8103437500001,"end":1134.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1116.8184687500002,"end":1117.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1121.07096875,"end":1121.1890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1121.1890937500002,"end":1121.2059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1121.2059687500002,"end":1121.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1121.22284375,"end":1121.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1125.0703437500001,"end":1125.1040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1125.1040937500002,"end":1125.9647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1134.89159375,"end":1144.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1143.7003437500002,"end":1149.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1149.4378437500002,"end":1156.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1157.2003437500002,"end":1159.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1157.2003437500002,"end":1163.3428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1163.9334687500002,"end":1174.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1175.79659375,"end":1196.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1178.47971875,"end":1178.9522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1194.64596875,"end":1195.5572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1196.1647187500002,"end":1208.4834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1208.56784375,"end":1212.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1212.48284375,"end":1215.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1215.1153437500002,"end":1219.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1217.42721875,"end":1218.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1219.8740937500002,"end":1222.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1223.18159375,"end":1227.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1228.4803437500002,"end":1230.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1230.94409375,"end":1231.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1231.93971875,"end":1238.5715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1239.0103437500002,"end":1250.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1250.90721875,"end":1260.2728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1254.9234687500002,"end":1255.3453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1260.6609687500002,"end":1261.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1260.6609687500002,"end":1267.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1267.91721875,"end":1274.4815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1274.95409375,"end":1282.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1282.41284375,"end":1287.1378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1287.44159375,"end":1293.1622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1293.5840937500002,"end":1297.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1298.17409375,"end":1303.3040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1303.33784375,"end":1316.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1317.39471875,"end":1319.3184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1319.92596875,"end":1322.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1323.3684687500001,"end":1338.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1338.92721875,"end":1348.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1348.9509687500001,"end":1349.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1350.46971875,"end":1360.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1358.73846875,"end":1359.9365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1360.17284375,"end":1361.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1361.87721875,"end":1365.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1364.1722187500002,"end":1387.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1368.6440937500001,"end":1368.9984687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1392.1678437500002,"end":1392.91034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.611,"end":8.279,"text":"謝謝召委有請人民會主委請曾主委"},{"start":11.431,"end":37.843,"text":"曾主委其實本席在這邊質詢您一直以來都是用非常溫暖的口氣在質詢您可是您救人到現在我發現本席辦公室跟您辦公室跟園民會的互動越來越差要的資料你們越來越不給然後時間還很長我希望今天主委在這邊答應我"},{"start":38.763,"end":47.672,"text":"也公開的跟我的辦公室說希望未來我要的資料我們的互動不要像前"},{"start":49.312,"end":76.285,"text":"您就任之後這麼糟糕可以嗎可以我想這個一定會要求來我不知道裡面到底是出了什麼狀況我曾經非常善意的提醒我希望主委你能夠撤換一些失職的幕僚可是呢到目前為止你還繼續使用這些錯誤的幕僚做錯誤的判斷而這位錯誤的幕僚其實呢各個地方的原住民的族人都知道他是誰"},{"start":77.225,"end":86.975,"text":"我希望今天詞群完畢了之後主委回去能夠請他收斂好好做好他幕僚的工作而不是私底下的主委"},{"start":87.691,"end":107.246,"text":"好嗎好我們會特別要求修正好我要幾個問題就問您第一個身份法之亂最近身份法之亂當初修法也是你們園民會自己提的而這部法在111年就修好了當時給你們三年的緩衝是可以準備的"},{"start":108.067,"end":126.695,"text":"然後這三年中好好的跟族人說明你怎麼樣要做什麼樣的事情就不會喪失你原住民的身份可是呢現在已經快到了我們的族人陷入非常恐懼並且在慌張中度過我們可以看一些數據一直到1月5號"},{"start":129.956,"end":155.31,"text":"新北桃園花蓮仍然有超過600個人還沒有更正所以整體來說還有4440人面臨要喪失他原住民的身份的風險主委三年的準備期怎麼會搞到最後一刻好像是連滾帶爬的你可以簡單說明一下為什麼謝謝委員"},{"start":158.342,"end":179.455,"text":"我想這個能夠就是說自己的族名還有就是這個轉變成原住民的身份除了就是說個人又有很強烈的這個這個欲望之外那想我們也都有通知掌握我們有掌握好這4000多個人我們已經通知了3年了耶那還通知不好然後還沒有辦法辦完"},{"start":182.113,"end":200.68,"text":"主委你們不要在這邊撇清承認我在這裡有三件事情要你們趕快做第一件立刻規劃用書面逐一通知真正的當事人然後讓我們真正要申請的族人盡快辦理"},{"start":201.92,"end":223.608,"text":"而不用申請的我們的族人他可以安心第二個立即跟護證師橫向整出訂出雙軌的宣導機制第三2月5號之前2月5號快到了今天已經是1月幾號了所以你們大概還有不到半個月的時間"},{"start":224.688,"end":241.241,"text":"我希望你們每一週能夠到我的國會辦公室裡面來做說明報告最新的進度還有它的完成率因為你們既然沒有辦法自己去完成三年當中沒有辦法完成那就讓我的辦公室來督促你們"},{"start":242.076,"end":259.664,"text":"好不好好這個這剛剛委員要求這三項我們即刻就會OK好最後我要講的是2月5號族人如果沒有完成他的這個處理的這個身份他會不會喪失原住民的身份如果會的話誰來負責他暫時會會喪失那"},{"start":265.148,"end":284.573,"text":"可以即刻再來申請所以你的意思是說2月5號以後主任沒有辦理的他以後還是還可以辦理可以是這樣的意思嗎對還是可以沒有影響他日後的申請你要確定喔不然我們的主任以後去申辦的時候不能的話那這個責任你要負責喔不會確定第二個禁法補償的問題"},{"start":288.555,"end":296.552,"text":"進法補償 主委你知道嗎 現在是影響我們的族人中低收入戶的資格喔你知不知道非常嚴重知道嗎 主委"},{"start":299.707,"end":306.769,"text":"我知道這個我們在12月中旬的時候也有特別就是發布會來看這個問題怎麼解決所以你們也要解決要要好我在這邊提醒你禁法補償的本質是因為國家禁止了我們的族人利用他的保留地原保地然後讓本來有經濟價值的土地他被剝奪了所以呢必須要用補償兩個字補償來彌補"},{"start":328.476,"end":332.139,"text":"可是目前這個補償金的金額也僅僅只能夠填補族人土地被政府不當限制的部分損失而已喔雖然從3萬塊提高到6萬塊但是不是很多人的族人他的土地面積很大喔可是你們知道嗎你們跟衛福部說這筆錢是因為維護國土保安他要算收入"},{"start":352.398,"end":378.025,"text":"所以現在我們的衛福部就把我們這個金髮補償的補償金他納入我們族人的所得認定所以影響到了我們的族人的中低收入的資格主委要解決吧我知道這個很嚴重那我們也會跟這個豪務部還有衛福部還有財政部相關部會我們在12月17號就有召開第一次希望我們來我們會很嚴肅的共同來檢討這個問題"},{"start":382.807,"end":402.174,"text":"其實本席在這個禮拜就要召開一個協調會了我請原民會你務必要站在族人的立場不要扭曲為一般收入金髮補償不是一般收入它是政策因為讓原住民的土地不能使用所以它是補償"},{"start":404.235,"end":420.683,"text":"補償是不可以變成收入的 知道嗎好 希望你們記得如果你們不站在主任的立場我希望主委你們要有人負責這件事情我們會站在主任的立場好 謝謝第三個我就是要講的是就業貸金還有中發基金的"},{"start":421.963,"end":435.486,"text":"我們的就業代就是督促我們的廠商要僱用原住民對嗎然後他不僱用的話他就易注錢進入到我們的專款那我們看一下這個數字113年722件你們只處理了22件啊連一成都不到短收了多少2.5億然後我再跟你說111年到113年整個加起來也只半了一半"},{"start":451.584,"end":459.769,"text":"短收5.4億 主委5.4億很大筆的錢數目對不對 主委對5.4億對園民會對族人來講是很大的一筆收入我要講的是因為你們的不作為短收了5.4億族人的就業權益受損"},{"start":469.827,"end":493.609,"text":"我在這邊要非常的嚴肅的說不知道你們在圖利廠商還是你們在欺負我們自己的族人呢主委請你回答一下什麼時候把短收的5.4億給收回來委員可以讓我說明一下那跟委員報告一下這個5億多絕對不會是短收只是說現在就是因為我們帶進的人手不足但是我們今年的部分"},{"start":494.09,"end":500.513,"text":"我們的那個法務有增加一名但是我們今年也換了一個新的廠商我要糾正你不是短收那是什麼這個本來就是要應該沒有用在沒有用原住民的身上你要給他罰款啊你要收回來啊你沒有收回來啊會會收回來會對啊你什麼時候收回來請問所以我們現在就是一直在趕111跟112年的部分那我們這個部分因為都還是在5年之內的那個"},{"start":522.062,"end":526.186,"text":"那個收款的那個範圍之內 所以這個一定會收回來不會轉收現在是114 我們的人力會加強114年了 你還告訴我你要收回111跟112 113 114呢對 我們現在已經有在努力了什麼時候 努力多久了呀113年722件 你們只處理了22件 諸位"},{"start":549.175,"end":571.744,"text":"你是不是要趕快要做趕快告訴我什麼時候收回我們會在今年的時候再加強加強如果今年沒有全部收回怎麼辦誰要負責任報告委員會努力因為這個還要去做一個調整不接受 主委請他不要說話 您說我給你看數據113年722件只處理了22件連一成都不到然後你們這個"},{"start":578.823,"end":594.57,"text":"早就清楚知道要增加人力 對吧你們都一直不增加人力 一直到現在5.4億都沒有收回來然後你們現在還告訴我說你們要努力我不接受 我的族人也不接受 告訴我什麼時候收回主委我不要你這個回答 我不接受了"},{"start":607.23,"end":613.292,"text":"113年722件只處理了22件連議程都不到111年到113年加總只辦了一半所以請你告訴我時間各位我們會盡全力齁在很短的時間我不要接受盡全力請你告訴我時間好那我也就是從現在開始算我希望說我們在一年內"},{"start":633.598,"end":653.533,"text":"好這也是一個答案我不要盡全力我要的是一年內把這個5.4億的就業貸金給我收回來如果沒有辦法收回來的話你們要負政治責任好嗎好接著我要跟您說的是我們的中發基金中發基金我們要做些什麼事 諸位"},{"start":663.704,"end":686.938,"text":"很多這個 我在上面給你看金融的業務等等中發基金對我們援助民族的權益來說很重要對吧 處長你要不要幫主委說話一下我們中發基金要做些什麼事中發基金的話就是主要在資金的隆通信用的保證以及等於是那個"},{"start":688.749,"end":705.096,"text":"有關對於原住民的文錢還有一些土地利用限制的一個補償收入去做處理好在今年你們終於出面承認105到113年的基金累積是短處了68.73億對嗎而本席非常的負責幫你們提出組決議"},{"start":715.18,"end":732.535,"text":"然後這個組決議是要求行政院分3年必須要撥補22.91億元可是我們看到今年行政院只給你們了5億硬生生就少給了18億我的族人聽好 綜合發展基金"},{"start":733.856,"end":744.741,"text":"縱使身為一個立法委員提出了主決議行政院還是不在乎原住民的綜合發展基金然後硬生生給少給了18億我要請問一下綜合基金的這個23.4億的缺口你們要怎麼補 主委"},{"start":756.856,"end":769.532,"text":"儲蓄互助社是原住民最重要的一個互助社有很多的基金也因為這個不足而影響到了族人的權益所以呢你們要怎麼處理"},{"start":772.461,"end":793.817,"text":"除序互助社這個業務其實就在佔我們這個中華基金其實超過百分之十很重要的一個業務因為原住民的貸款都是在跟他們在做貸款除序互助社跟原住民有相當很深的關係所以這個業務我們會持續的來給協助那你這個缺口怎麼補"},{"start":795.083,"end":802.847,"text":"今年是先補充五億我想我們還仍然要跟主席總書記錄來爭取什麼時候跟他爭取那個會持續就是說在今年度會再跟行政院如果不剝足的話你們是不是會正式跟主任報告"},{"start":815.779,"end":825.755,"text":"我們會跟主席總署來拜託他們就是說應該就是按照我們當時的這個決議是不是要補足這個金額所以你要跟院長說明"},{"start":828.599,"end":853.294,"text":"綜合發展基金很重要請我們的執政黨民進黨政府不要一方面說很照顧原住民一方面該補足的都不補足然後主決議明明已經定了他還不按照主決議的模式來撥補給我們園民會園民會不准再穿小鞋了好嗎 主委 硬起來好 繼續最後一個問題園文會傳統季影季主語節目"},{"start":861.893,"end":878.38,"text":"這個問題我聽說是賴總統很想做世界原住民傳統運動會但是呢我們的總統又不給錢因此呢你們用國家語言整體發展方案原住民族主語節目影音製作的計畫"},{"start":879.6,"end":885.264,"text":"然後呢你們把這個要製作強化族語發展跟節目自製能力的錢拿來掛羊頭賣狗肉然後就去辦什麼跟族語毫無相關的運動會這不僅僅是公然亂用經費 更是掏空我們族語的振興啊 主委你怎麼說明我跟委員報告這有關這個族語的這個文化 族語的文化他有含有很多的面向 那其實辦"},{"start":909.936,"end":914.701,"text":"這個 藉這個 這個活動來辦這樣的事情你這個活動叫 你這個計畫名稱叫什麼 請問跨國族語節目直播跨國族語節目直播為什麼你們原民會對外宣傳都是說原住民世界運動會"},{"start":929.611,"end":932.953,"text":"自播跟運動會有什麼關係你知道一旦用運動會這個名稱他就必須要有另外的科目而且只要是運動會對於來參加競技比賽的這些族人尤其是學生他可以作為評量成績"},{"start":950.521,"end":963.927,"text":"然後呢你如果是運動會你就得發揮縣政府的力量鄉公所的力量甚至於公部門的力量甚至於你原民會的力量都要來可是你是自播節目啊自播節目啊而且你還自播的六集花了多少錢我跟大家報告8500萬8500萬自播了六集的節目"},{"start":979.844,"end":988.024,"text":"然後這六集的節目呢本來這個8500萬留下來是因為王宏威的揭弊"},{"start":989.13,"end":1002.238,"text":"因為有些要去自播節目的很清楚的給了委外別人引起了很大的風波因此8500萬被保留下來而我們的園民會就用這個8500萬去討好賴清德總統賴清德總統應該要給我們辦運動會的錢不辦然後用這個8500萬去辦然後跟大家報告8500萬裡面有九成外包"},{"start":1018.652,"end":1044.351,"text":"所以我都說 原文會你們是外包能力的單位啊原文會你們有原住民電視台耶你們連直播都不要用自己耶然後你們把所有的錢都拿去委外這個廠商去辦活動辦什麼活動 原住民世界日然後這原住民世界運動會呢 辦了非常浮華"},{"start":1045.752,"end":1057.419,"text":"然後政治人物都去謝謝賴總統政治人物都去台上講話唯獨高金素梅沒去原因我清楚知道這是賴總統想辦的但是卻不給錢這筆錢要強化族羽發展提升自治能力 對吧 主委"},{"start":1065.796,"end":1090.644,"text":"好 結果進九層 7500萬全部用在辦活動5500萬發包給廠商然後這些廠商呢 把所有拍過來的東西呢然後再交給原民會 原文會原民會再去把它剪出來變成六級所謂的應該說是什麼 節目是世界原住民的自播節目"},{"start":1092.247,"end":1119.542,"text":"好厲害喔主委來沒關係我們請那個處長簡單說一下因為這是你的教文處的業務是 簡單的說明是 謝謝委員的指教我想在我們核定補助園文會的3億7百萬的主委方案的經費裡面他其實就有一個我知道正式四年計畫蘇貞昌院長在的時候"},{"start":1120.202,"end":1133.77,"text":"合併的 我們都很希望有合併政筆計劃好好用來處理方案 可是沒想到8500萬到最後要被執行的時候被王宏威揭幣揭出來 因此8500萬被保留了"},{"start":1135.911,"end":1156.041,"text":"在他的整個規劃原委會所提出來的製作的策略裡面他有一個第七項就是要做跨國族語節目的直播跨國族語的直播跟世界原住民運動會有什麼關係我想他的方式是透過運動會的方式來做直播節目的內容那在坊間其實有很多的這樣的"},{"start":1157.262,"end":1173.122,"text":"那你們原命會應該宣傳的是原住民族族語節目影音製作計畫你們應該是要這樣子宣傳啊然後你們要這樣做宣傳的時候呢來的所有的族人是不是應該要有節目的參與費"},{"start":1175.831,"end":1178.333,"text":"因為我是製播節目我是來自演藝圈啊你讓我來製播你這個節目他不是競技選手欸他是來參與你這個節目欸每一個人來參與的人應該要拿到一些經費吧車馬補助費吧然後一些補貼費吧我是演員我要有應該要有啊我的主任拿到了沒有"},{"start":1196.386,"end":1208.618,"text":"這些各組的選手來參加這個節目還是說運動會的執行其實他們都有相關的提供車碼住宿費都是由這個節目的經費來支應的好 這個節目經費是給個人還是給縣市政府還是給鄉公所"},{"start":1212.541,"end":1218.947,"text":"其實是由縣市政府來代轉給我們的各自的是園民會給還是園文會給還是這些外包的廠商在節目的製作節目裡面給是由園文會來支應的好 我也跟你們要了好久的資料我也開了兩次的會議處長我可以在這邊要求你"},{"start":1230.987,"end":1246.114,"text":"以後你們要做什麼事情就大方的跟族人報告這是節目影音製作計畫這不是世界運動會原住民世界運動會因為你很清楚只要是運動會就有禁忌"},{"start":1247.415,"end":1266.837,"text":"有禁忌就一定會有獎金對吧有獎金他一定會有一些獎狀對吧這些獎狀還可以用為孩子的評量的成績可是這次是完全沒有是因為他不是運動會因為呢他是影音製作計畫你們要檢六級"},{"start":1267.978,"end":1272.702,"text":"然後來核銷這個蘇貞昌院長以前核定的四年經費而且很奇怪喔除了8500萬之外你們園民會還有52名的正式人力支援3到5天然後你們園民會自己又出了46萬多的出差費然後你們的媒體宣傳費花了多少錢我現在跟你要資料也沒有資料"},{"start":1293.681,"end":1315.986,"text":"然後主任也告訴我說我們的相關所被要求派員參加我們的主委老師被要求要支援現場來幫忙然後主委老師的費用是從哪裡出的是從8500萬出的呢還是教文處你另外就補給這些主委老師呢這些我現在也都沒有拿到資料因為今天時間時間已經沒有那麼多了我可不可以要求園民會主委跟處長"},{"start":1323.43,"end":1347.341,"text":"以後賴總統要辦原住民世界運動會請賴總統跟行政院自己出錢給原民會辦理不要用原民會的公務預算裡面因為我們沒有這個科目也不要用族語的這些錢拿去做包裝做世界原住民運動會讓我們的原住民的族人一頭霧水可以嗎"},{"start":1350.523,"end":1357.408,"text":"可以但是我跟委員講就是說辦世界民主運動會也不是說是特別總統交代或者是院長交代"},{"start":1357.935,"end":1363.119,"text":"因為我們跟這些那誰想做的因為我們跟這些南島語系的國家既然這會是主委你想做的事情我也沒有不同意你做所以麻煩你們直接在你們要送出預算的時候就說每年你要辦這件事情每年要辦這件事情經費怎麼來要有多少錢請你們明白的寫出來不要再這樣子掛羊頭賣狗肉好不好主委好謝謝"},{"start":1392.176,"end":1392.858,"text":"謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167176","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167176","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8518af298b2e71b1963e1f8a6d37bdd8b8937d2db32b336acc6effd30bbe266b48c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"12:43:40 - 13:01:53","影片長度":"00:18:13","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:43:40+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:01:53+08:00","duration":1093,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.92534375,"end":1.6172187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.07284375,"end":9.919718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.82346875,"end":5.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.71721875,"end":11.269718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.505968750000001,"end":14.340968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.450968750000001,"end":12.585968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.771593750000001,"end":12.923468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.138468750000001,"end":19.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.96909375,"end":18.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.33596875,"end":19.825343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.06159375,"end":20.399093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.60534375,"end":24.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.55409375,"end":74.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.15846875000001,"end":76.64346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.53346875000001,"end":98.39534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":98.69909375,"end":113.34659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.84534375000001,"end":107.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.18221875,"end":112.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.44784375,"end":121.34534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.71659375,"end":122.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.75034375000001,"end":121.95284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.35346875,"end":124.50096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.85534375,"end":136.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.74784375000002,"end":146.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":146.67471875,"end":157.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.76596875,"end":159.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.29721875,"end":159.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":160.64721875,"end":166.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.26659375,"end":169.69221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.40096875,"end":173.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.94034375,"end":183.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.99096875,"end":175.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.28909375,"end":195.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.65034375000002,"end":195.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.73034375,"end":213.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.83721875,"end":216.04784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.21221875,"end":217.76909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.03909375,"end":220.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":221.66721875000002,"end":222.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.88221875000002,"end":223.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.48971875,"end":225.32909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":225.85221875000002,"end":226.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.59034375000002,"end":231.25221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":233.58096875,"end":235.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":235.89284375000003,"end":240.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.63909375000003,"end":252.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.73409375000003,"end":253.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.78471875000002,"end":253.29096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.51034375,"end":256.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.13846875,"end":264.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.04909375,"end":267.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":268.29284375000003,"end":270.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.46971875,"end":273.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.30471875,"end":277.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.96284375,"end":275.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.94534375,"end":278.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.67096875000004,"end":279.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.51471875000004,"end":284.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.40846875,"end":298.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.36409375,"end":301.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.51534375,"end":310.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.18909375000004,"end":335.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.82659375000003,"end":347.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.14534375,"end":362.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.97846875000005,"end":371.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.14159375,"end":373.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":373.91346875000005,"end":377.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":378.55409375000005,"end":384.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":385.37159375000005,"end":405.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.89659375,"end":402.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.97596875000005,"end":409.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.94159375000004,"end":415.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.57346875,"end":417.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.82221875000005,"end":439.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.92846875000004,"end":445.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.73346875000004,"end":445.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.86846875000003,"end":483.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.97221875,"end":496.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.11784375,"end":498.29909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.99096875000004,"end":518.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.07221875,"end":533.1459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":534.2765937500001,"end":567.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.2547187499999,"end":573.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":574.60784375,"end":598.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.0009687500001,"end":599.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.49409375,"end":604.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.2022187499999,"end":612.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":612.44159375,"end":616.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.9978437500001,"end":618.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.76971875,"end":624.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.94596875,"end":626.3972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":626.5322187500001,"end":649.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.9028437500001,"end":631.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.29659375,"end":657.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.41346875,"end":696.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.0022187500001,"end":730.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":730.85346875,"end":753.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":754.2422187500001,"end":754.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":755.18721875,"end":767.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":767.6240937500002,"end":773.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":775.09971875,"end":776.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.3103437500001,"end":793.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":780.07784375,"end":780.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":781.9509687500001,"end":782.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":794.0165937500001,"end":824.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":824.91471875,"end":841.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":841.77284375,"end":846.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":846.70034375,"end":848.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":848.3034687500001,"end":848.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":849.1303437500001,"end":854.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":854.54721875,"end":861.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":861.9553437500001,"end":892.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":892.2122187500001,"end":894.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":895.2834687500001,"end":896.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":896.1272187500001,"end":898.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":898.74284375,"end":928.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":928.99971875,"end":930.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":930.9740937500001,"end":934.5009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":934.90596875,"end":946.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":946.70159375,"end":947.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":947.4947187500002,"end":958.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":958.8684687500001,"end":961.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":961.60221875,"end":962.3447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":962.74971875,"end":989.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":990.2390937500002,"end":996.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":996.87096875,"end":1009.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1010.67471875,"end":1015.5009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1016.12534375,"end":1045.0828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1045.8084687500002,"end":1048.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1048.9978437500001,"end":1062.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1062.6328437500001,"end":1065.7547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1066.39596875,"end":1070.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1070.8340937500002,"end":1075.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1075.5759687500001,"end":1079.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1079.9297187500001,"end":1083.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1083.3047187500001,"end":1088.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1088.2490937500002,"end":1088.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1088.46846875,"end":1088.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1088.92409375,"end":1089.4134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1089.4134687500002,"end":1089.43034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.939,"end":19.051,"text":"不休息啦 因為沒有人可以問 只有你可以問而已不好意思 那我們就不休息 請黨團的助理聯絡一下所以我問到不休息對 你可以 看你可以怎樣問好 謝謝主席 那個麻煩請我們衛福部次長還有食藥署署長委員好"},{"start":27.888,"end":50.847,"text":"兩位好缺藥跟缺原料是全球共同的問題本席也很高興在疫情過後衛福部有相當正視這個問題所以食藥署在2024年1月31號的時候就已經發布了藥品供應監測系統而且已經上線啟用當然主要的目的"},{"start":51.327,"end":76.327,"text":"是為了要持續強化主動監測跟協調藥品妥善分配確保藥品穩定供應那因此針對這個系統本席有幾個問題要請教那當初這個藥品供應的監測系統呢最初鎖定參與的這個對象是哪些那大概全台全台有幾家"},{"start":78.798,"end":98.103,"text":"跟委員這邊做進一步說明我們當初希望能夠是供應端的能夠知道所以第一件事情就是我們相關的盤商盤商其實是協助把藥品送到醫療院所等等的這個過程當中所以這是一塊我們現在能夠精準的比較掌握的"},{"start":98.763,"end":121.118,"text":"那我們持續的希望他能夠除了這以外我們目前在藥物韌性計畫裡面能夠把更多的資訊能夠導入所以我們有一個叫做藥物智慧導入的邏輯的以及存熱的系統所以那個供應端大概基本上就是包括這個大型藥廠啦還有這些大型的裝盤商等等"},{"start":121.832,"end":145.471,"text":"目前有14家那因為當初一開始參與的時候我們接到的資訊是大型中盤商的加數你們當初發布的時候一開始只有12家那現在有14家了那這樣子的但在我們全台就是你有統計過我們有多少的大型藥廠跟多少的大型中盤商"},{"start":148.348,"end":173,"text":"對 針對這個議題謝謝委員我們就想盡辦法在進口商的部分是另外一部分我們能夠知道也希望能夠在醫院端能夠取得對啊 那你有沒有統計過大約的數據這個大型的大概都已經包含在裡面但是有一部分的其實是我們要持續在溝通的當中好 那如果說好幾百我這樣子的這樣子的估計有這麼多嗎"},{"start":175.046,"end":183.052,"text":"而那是藥廠的部分我們在盤商的部分其實是大型的盤商在比較確立的是比較集中那目前是這樣子的狀況"},{"start":184.729,"end":213.23,"text":"對那所以不是因為你們既然有這個監測系統我竟然問不出大概起碼就是說那有多少是不方便透露是嗎委員我們大概是從後面的量藥品的劑量大概是接近九成的量八到九成的涵蓋量就是說我們沒有涵蓋每一家但是整體在健保系統裡面的供應的量大概涵蓋有八到九成但中間還是有需要努力的地方"},{"start":214.088,"end":230.598,"text":"對 所以我還是聽不太懂就是那個量 你的量大概有多少你說實際的加數對啊加數的部分我這就 請問一下中本山14家是在裡面還有其他什麼加數"},{"start":233.709,"end":256.161,"text":"還有社區藥局的東西我想這個部分是還沒有完全涵蓋這是委員是很精確的所以如果連社區藥局都是的話那我問你加速應該我想你們要做這個監測系統最起碼基本的這些加速數據你們應該要很精確的掌握吧所以我說好幾百應該也不過分"},{"start":257.228,"end":278.791,"text":"跟委員報告因為這些藥局其實都是靠盤商送去的我理解所以你如果可以很具體告訴我盤商有哪些盤商目前我們是涵蓋了14家盤商所以你說14家有涵蓋率90%80%到90%的所有的健保的使用藥物好那"},{"start":282.346,"end":308.259,"text":"這個平台的運作方式我先記住你剛剛講的涵蓋率80%到90%這個平台的運作方式是由合作大型中盤藥商每天將藥品庫存資料借接導入我用大型中盤藥商基本上是根據你們的新聞稿"},{"start":308.999,"end":332.587,"text":"的文字那就是這個具備這個查詢介面然後供這個職業的藥事人員查詢所需藥品然後於這個合作中盤藥商之供應情形那將有助這個基層藥局及診所取得所需的藥品來保障民眾用藥的權益那這裡面的問題是"},{"start":335.908,"end":362.067,"text":"大型的醫療院所它所需求的藥品可能跟這個基層藥局的診所不太一樣像剛剛講因為藥局畢竟我們都比較可以垂手可得那他們負責的可能是直接就大型醫療院所負責的可能是直接跟這個嚴重疾病或者是涉及生命安全的藥品有關那跟民眾的用藥是不太一樣的"},{"start":363.428,"end":384.041,"text":"所以是不是這個系統對於這個大型醫療院所用的這個藥實際上並沒有監測到或者監測不足這個部分委員其實講得非常精準我們針對有一塊醫院裡面的所謂的藥品的部分我們採用的方式是"},{"start":385.482,"end":405.027,"text":"希望能夠在健保的部分使用量能夠借階能夠知道它實際上的我們需要的是它的量的走勢那至於我們在社區藥局裡面還是有一大部分比例特別是我們連續處方籤的一些所謂的代謝性疾病的使用高血壓糖尿液等等所以這個部分是有可能是重複一點點"},{"start":406.047,"end":411.35,"text":"就是說對我們這個監測我從我開始質詢到現在我一直聽到監測這個量這個量但對於我們這個藥品"},{"start":416.638,"end":442.365,"text":"的這個種類或類別的這個藥品其實我們比較可以看到的是他的量所以那個大型醫院所提供的藥品必要藥品跟我們一般在藥房可以取得的或使用的其實這個就有一些差別了我想這個部分會不會就有疏漏到"},{"start":442.925,"end":463.938,"text":"或者您說的也重疊到跟委員先報告就是說在藥品供應上面來講其實我們一直要求就是比較大型的醫療院所它其實跟相關的藥品廠商這邊它的契約是非常重要的一件事因為它這邊的契約才能夠穩定的持續供應這些大型醫療院所它量比較大或者是某些剛剛委員提到的"},{"start":464.258,"end":489.759,"text":"某些比較特定的藥品他自己跟藥廠之間的契約來確保他的合約供應那再來剛剛提到我們這個中間這個系統事實上在盤商這邊事實上是協助包含比較中小型或者是我們的這一個基層的藥局去確保他們這邊的運作能夠有一定程度的供應當然是這兩個部分對這個我理解因為那確實你們這個新聞稿大概我想我提問大概也依據你們發布的訊息來提問那"},{"start":492.162,"end":510.056,"text":"我們換一個角度來看就是說我們如何來鼓勵這個藥廠的參與參與這個藥品存量的通報畢竟就是說每日通報的人事行政成本是不低的"},{"start":510.777,"end":532.786,"text":"那甚至呢這個可能還有這個校期的問題啊政策沒有說明清楚啦等等那就是說他行政成本不低以外那你們到底有沒有誘因那政府對於這個藥商通報的正確性好像也沒有那個立場去苛責嘛我不曉得你們的看法是什麼"},{"start":534.597,"end":551.359,"text":"報告委員 針對現在我們需要的希望能夠可靜性所以是採用電腦拋接的形式讓它的行政成本能夠以最低的行政成本能夠達到這樣的效果第二個部分是對於藥商裡面假如是不可苛責 比如說傳奇"},{"start":552.961,"end":571.365,"text":"比如說他的航班等等的重大的事件之下我們也會有一些免除的條款可是這些系的辦法在這一次修法的大架構底下呢還會有執法的一些辦法我們會繼續的延伸那個我這樣問好了你們對於就是說目前的通報狀況你們滿意嗎"},{"start":574.802,"end":597.774,"text":"報告報告委員我們目前對於藥品出現異常的時候需要做進一步分析的我們只要接到之後我們從實在署內以及我們跟協辦的臨床的藥學會裡面對於特定藥品就可以積極的去研析完做後續是否有替代的或者是真的有需要需要進口專案進口我再換個問法好了就是說"},{"start":601.756,"end":624.271,"text":"在像這些盤商其實我的理解有一些沒有參與的盤商他們可能不是不願意參與是因為他們有疑慮他們對於這個政策上沒有說明的很清楚所以就有些就沒有來參與我們樂見於就是說全台的這些盤商都一起來參與這個"},{"start":626.913,"end":648.984,"text":"對 我們非常非常希望他們共同參與其實資料越完整對於我們對任性的部分建立我覺得是更好的那我們對於互相的權利義務的部分我們不會是完全是在單方面的其實委員 之前委員也有特別提到我們希望是雙方去協調能夠達到資訊我們希望的是資訊上面能夠對接之後達到最好的涵蓋效果"},{"start":649.529,"end":668.32,"text":"對 所以我在這裡也是提醒就是說因為我們這個政策的發布截至今天為止我們其實理想上可以達到百分百的通報但是還沒有我想這一段的差距你們要找出原因 找出誘因去解決它"},{"start":669.641,"end":696.314,"text":"那另外就是說根據這個食藥署的發布聲明我們這次是由這個中華民國藥師公會全國聯合會他們一肩扛起來主責尋求這個合作的這個中盤藥商來參與通報那事實上呢大型的這個藥商可能具有研發生產製造那他們的成員呢並不是以這個執行藥師業務為主體的藥商那反而他們的藥品可能都是直接"},{"start":697.795,"end":716.928,"text":"與這個大型醫療院所的這個採購那這些大型的藥商直接相關的可能是健保合附的這個藥價那今天呢很可惜我們石部長沒有來因為部長他擔任過食藥健保署的署長他一定非常清楚那真正的27條之2的必要藥品"},{"start":718.148,"end":742.194,"text":"事實上實際上它才是最應該被監測的藥品單靠食藥署的職權我相信你們是很難做到就是很即時有效的監測需要健保署在核定藥價的同時考慮提供一點差別性的誘因讓這些大型藥商有積極參與的態度願意配合食藥署的監測系統"},{"start":746.355,"end":770.072,"text":"那畢竟就是說我剛剛前面有提這個監測這個系統它的譬如說監測對 講到這些大型的藥商因為我們剛剛一直在講監測藥品監測藥品但是沒有原料就沒有藥品那我們是不是如果在與其我們在監測這個藥品的同時我們是不是應該對於這個大型藥廠我們應該監測的是原料"},{"start":775.22,"end":801.205,"text":"有的原料不是在國內那我們當然自己國內的原料藥這邊我們跟國內的原料藥但你要製造的時候你有需求要製造的時候委員其實這就是幾個部分跟委員報告第一個是國內的原料藥廠商我們這邊其實已經對接上來我們也積極在協助我們自己國內的藥廠可以使用自己國內原料藥這是第一個部分那第二個部分有些藥廠其實現在全世界各國他們大概60%的原料藥都來自於印度或中國"},{"start":802.345,"end":823.926,"text":"所以這也是我們要強化國內韌性的其中每個國家都有這個問題那他們如果是來自其他國家或甚至來自某些單一國家的話那這也是為什麼我們這次請這些藥廠他們在供藥可能會出現半年內供藥可能會出現波動的這種情況要事先讓我們知道他假設因為他的原料供應有問題導致他的藥品不能生產這要提早讓我們知道讓我們來做相關的因應"},{"start":824.967,"end":841.386,"text":"跟委員進一步說一點補充那我們對於要求原料要他們的儲備其實我們有要求到半年的一個儲備期就是的量所以這部分事實上能夠在製造的過程中原料能夠盡量能夠不予愧缺"},{"start":842.046,"end":861.423,"text":"因為我想在整個我們在這裡盤點然後再通報再監測那當然這個衍生會衍生一些成本因為畢竟很多的大型醫療院所甚至他們如果這個藥的效期不到一年或一年半他們是拒收的"},{"start":862.083,"end":890.662,"text":"那所以我想在藥房的部分其實也是一樣所以這個通報或者我們接下來進一步有要求一個相當時間的一個庫存的時候我想都會衍生當然會衍生一些譬如說這個倉儲的成本或冷鏈的成本甚至一些人事盤點的成本那我想這個部分還有一種成本就是說就是這個銷毀的成本"},{"start":892.363,"end":907.313,"text":"那如果有這個庫存料那但我們後來沒有沒有如期去用到的時候他也必須要銷毀所以這樣的成本都必須要被考量進去那這些成本呢還有我們的"},{"start":907.873,"end":927.098,"text":"政府的配套其實都在影響到我們的就是國內的這些盤商參與通報系統的很多這些原因那所以這個部分本席特別今天在這裡也提出來希望你們可以一併的去做檢討考慮然後讓這個整個"},{"start":931.261,"end":946.348,"text":"讓大家的這個參與度可以再更積極一點那我想這個藥品監測他一定是不會層級的這個議題不是三級機關的問題喔所以這個部分我不曉得兩位有沒有同意我的看法"},{"start":947.54,"end":967.873,"text":"好那再回到我們今天討論的藥事法修訂因為很多的提案他都涉及的必要藥品供應跟掌握通報還有因應機制事實上呢就是但我們我們到底有沒有真的盤點到這些大型醫院的必要藥品"},{"start":968.913,"end":996.066,"text":"這個部分我們可能也要好好去想一想事實上很難有一套好的通報系統是由立法院可以規範完全的因為通報系統的含掛率跟時效是檢驗系統最重要的兩大指標法律上只能管制但是法律不是誘因的工具"},{"start":997.026,"end":1014.686,"text":"所以要滿足這兩大指標還是要靠衛福部規劃出誘因來讓這個涉及藥品涉及這必要必要藥品的大型廠商來主動通報那剛剛也提過這個通報所增加的成本所以"},{"start":1016.389,"end":1043.961,"text":"衛福部你們應該有這個要有單位負責每日監控通報訊息然後提早做出反應那這樣子呢我們的必要的這個藥品存量才能正確有效的被監測那我們民眾的這個用藥的健康需求才能真的被保障那我想我們如何進一步來規劃提升這個系統的通報誘因我不曉得本席剛剛提了幾個具體的建議你們"},{"start":1045.882,"end":1064.779,"text":"是不是能夠接受然後回去我們回去了解一下相關各剛提到的這些廠商他們還有什麼樣的需求我們來協助那其實我想我們也逐漸來走向就是自動化數位化的方式來做管理降低大家的相關的管理成本好因為那個我相信次長在辦公室"},{"start":1066.52,"end":1087.48,"text":"大家會得到很多單位的訊息回報但是有時候或許實際上在執行面是有一些狀況或者需要改進的空間那也未必坐在辦公室就可以了解到我們都很積極參加學協會的相關活動大家都可以直接溝通得到好 那我等下也在這邊就我了解到的跟你們分享了好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167172","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167172","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8515128a467fd87efcac02888e1e08ec371128c6ef5ed786e9b1e7a2a83f9da65db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"12:23:45 - 12:42:19","影片長度":"00:18:34","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:23:45+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:42:19+08:00","duration":1114,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4.6715937499999995,"end":5.599718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.95409375,"end":8.485343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.41346875,"end":10.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16.66971875,"end":17.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.95221875,"end":18.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.504718750000002,"end":21.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.79971875,"end":23.622218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.195968750000002,"end":31.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.21159375,"end":47.635343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":47.955968750000004,"end":54.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":54.75659375,"end":78.75284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.34346875,"end":127.50471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.90971875000001,"end":146.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":149.74596875,"end":152.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":149.83034375,"end":149.86409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":149.88096875000002,"end":149.89784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":150.03284375,"end":150.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":153.30659375000002,"end":168.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":169.05096875,"end":170.13096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":170.29971875,"end":172.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.49784375000002,"end":171.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":171.51471875000001,"end":172.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.15596875,"end":172.29096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":172.88159375,"end":177.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":177.62346875,"end":209.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.03409375,"end":196.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":209.65221875,"end":213.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":213.93846875000003,"end":271.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.99909375000004,"end":258.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":271.14471875000004,"end":271.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.20784375,"end":330.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":330.89909375,"end":332.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":332.60346875000005,"end":335.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":336.16409375,"end":362.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":363.43409375000005,"end":372.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":373.15409375,"end":391.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":392.67846875000004,"end":405.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.64284375000005,"end":408.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":408.18659375000004,"end":412.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":412.65846875000005,"end":415.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":415.29096875000005,"end":430.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":425.56784375,"end":425.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":431.01846875,"end":433.71846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":433.95471875000004,"end":438.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":439.35471875,"end":442.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":443.47221875,"end":444.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.74221875,"end":444.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":444.94034375,"end":467.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":465.08909375,"end":466.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":467.26596875,"end":589.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":588.54659375,"end":588.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":589.1203437500001,"end":589.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":590.08221875,"end":596.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":596.35971875,"end":613.5047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":614.07846875,"end":618.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":618.61784375,"end":620.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":620.8115937499999,"end":631.8647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":632.80971875,"end":635.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":634.88534375,"end":638.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":639.3740937499999,"end":642.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":642.81659375,"end":647.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":647.9297187500001,"end":660.1303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":659.4553437500001,"end":666.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":667.13346875,"end":701.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.4184687500001,"end":679.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":701.3728437500001,"end":702.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":703.12784375,"end":714.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":714.23159375,"end":719.7834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":714.24846875,"end":714.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":714.50159375,"end":714.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":719.9184687500001,"end":719.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":719.98596875,"end":720.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":720.71159375,"end":761.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":761.61659375,"end":763.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":763.5065937500001,"end":773.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":773.8172187499999,"end":781.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":776.4328437500001,"end":777.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":781.4109687499999,"end":782.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":782.57534375,"end":812.3090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":812.22471875,"end":825.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":823.80096875,"end":833.2509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":832.2890937500001,"end":833.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":833.3859687500001,"end":834.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":834.16221875,"end":835.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":835.44471875,"end":836.8115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":836.9465937500001,"end":838.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":839.27534375,"end":841.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":846.3628437500001,"end":846.9365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":847.4765937500001,"end":857.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":859.79534375,"end":925.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":917.4740937500001,"end":917.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":926.3672187500001,"end":927.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":927.02534375,"end":939.1922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":939.4115937500001,"end":940.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":940.4409687500001,"end":945.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":945.14909375,"end":945.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":945.68909375,"end":945.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":945.97596875,"end":950.8697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":952.9622187500001,"end":980.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":981.0422187500001,"end":981.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":981.71721875,"end":996.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":997.4953437500001,"end":999.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":999.3347187500001,"end":999.3853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":999.3853437500002,"end":999.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":999.68909375,"end":999.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":999.7565937500001,"end":1003.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1005.1397187500002,"end":1006.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1007.5359687500002,"end":1010.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1010.4553437500001,"end":1014.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1019.5678437500001,"end":1020.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1021.35659375,"end":1022.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1028.2247187500002,"end":1029.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1030.26659375,"end":1042.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1042.8722187500002,"end":1044.9647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1044.9647187500002,"end":1050.7190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1046.7703437500002,"end":1046.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1051.2928437500002,"end":1060.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1061.19846875,"end":1063.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1061.3672187500001,"end":1061.6878437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1063.4934687500001,"end":1083.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1085.12721875,"end":1088.8565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1089.2784687500002,"end":1093.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1093.93596875,"end":1095.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1096.09596875,"end":1097.5472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1098.03659375,"end":1099.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1099.9265937500002,"end":1100.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1101.0234687500001,"end":1110.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1110.96284375,"end":1111.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1111.24971875,"end":1111.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1111.40159375,"end":1111.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1111.4353437500001,"end":1112.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1112.97096875,"end":1113.9665937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.687,"end":10.372,"text":"好 謝主席有請優雅的台灣人 鄭英耀部長有請鄭部長委員好部長好"},{"start":19.634,"end":37.642,"text":"首先本席還是要抗議喔這個會期是預算會期那在野黨不審預算卻在委員會要求大家繼續原地繞圈圈假裝自己很關心學校營養午餐事實上才化法被修得亂七八糟然後行政院版又遭到拒絕審查"},{"start":38.863,"end":62.118,"text":"那為什麼營養午餐法會打劫財源不明 事權不清就是一個明擺著一隻在房間裡的大象我們已經講過很多次了這個劫沒想到 後續怎麼講都是假說的啦教育部做過初步的盤整營養午餐專法如果一旦訂定了每年需要花國家差不多44億的預算"},{"start":64.119,"end":78.431,"text":"換句話說在財化法沒有被惡修的狀況之下營養午餐法涉及那麼龐大的這個經費本來就知識體大本來就需要時間要好好的評估那從上一任到這一屆我想"},{"start":79.432,"end":93.728,"text":"我們辦公室都非常持續跟辦公室跟那個教育部來追蹤布版跟這個整個條文的進度那在不分黨派的委員的共同努力下其實院版的條文也從無到有"},{"start":94.409,"end":116.852,"text":"其實很有機會來進立法院審查現在是半路又殺出了這個才化法修法二修讓一切停擺所以本席還要強調一次營養午餐專法本來就試設龐大的這個國家經費相關立法本來就很不容易但是在野黨卻讓這一切更的更難了不幫忙就算了還扯後腿"},{"start":117.492,"end":146.588,"text":"所以在財化法被惡修的情況之下那負責最終財政這個責任的中央政府他根本不敢不敢隨便提出法案嘛好那這個會期剩下兩個禮拜喔那院版的財化法繼續被卡所以要請教部長是說你認為有哪些涉及這個中央地方事權分配的這個教育部相關的工作事務無法獲得這個解決那或進一步的推動讓你最心痛"},{"start":149.878,"end":175.893,"text":"就是試射對 試射這些因為才化法被卡因為確實這一個過去我們當然從中央的一個政策裡邊它有一定的一些從專業理想性但是我也跟委員報告因為這個營養午餐專法之前本來就有十個縣市已經免費推動那當然這是屬於地方的一個權限但是這一個我們"},{"start":177.714,"end":196.492,"text":"教文会里边在讨论这个营养专法的时候后来又陆续在今年年初又陆续有宪事都宣布了所以现在22个地方宪事确实有20个宪事它是倾向这个政策来支持学童的免费使用"},{"start":197.153,"end":213.235,"text":"那當然從教育部的立場我們當然會希望就是說地方勇於承擔從地方自治法來看這是好事但是怎麼確保學童吃得健康 吃得安全然後能夠確保他在"},{"start":214.556,"end":243.007,"text":"這個發展的過程能夠受到一個更多的支持包含這一個許多的這個食安的問題都能夠解決我想這是教育部在這個地方在這個本地地方的前者在推動的時候我們期待中央跟地方怎麼樣共同努力包含能夠確保這個三張EQ我們透過整個監督的平台裡面登錄的平台裡面去確保我們的食材包含需要中央"},{"start":243.807,"end":270.674,"text":"更多的一些專業來提供專業的協助在這個營養上的一些機制上的一個協助包含這個跟地方來合作怎麼有許多的這些做得好的經驗能夠怎麼擴散我們有一些監督跟揭露的機制教育部也願意來編一些經會給好的地方政府在營養午餐推動我們也會給予一些支持做這樣的補充說明"},{"start":272.284,"end":294.655,"text":"那再來針對教育部就是上週公布這個校事會議相關的這個辦法的修正那本席在去年5月就曾經召開記者會關注這個校事會議濫訴的這個議題那這個會期也有分別在記者會質詢的時候都有跟教育部來探討這個相關的精進的方向那回到這次修法的這個重點"},{"start":295.855,"end":322.51,"text":"很重要就是說我們要減少檢舉案量並且分流那主要就是因為學校接獲檢舉後那經校長召開會議認定行為人涉及考核辦法的教師懲處的情況者那他就應適用或准用這個考核辦法去規定辦理那可是我想要關注的是說我們在QA裡面看見的就是說如果"},{"start":323.11,"end":334.492,"text":"涉及考核辦法的案例由校內人員調查那不用送到校事會議可是必要時得指派校外人員調查"},{"start":336.549,"end":362.349,"text":"教師團體就認為說你這個必要時只派校外人員調查就很可能讓例外成為常態不僅會削弱校園的內部專業自治權也沒有辦法減緩學校內部行政事務繁雜的狀況所以想要請教部長是說就15面我們要怎麼避免涉及考核辦法的案例都走到所謂的"},{"start":363.67,"end":390.844,"text":"必要時指派校外人員調查那教育部的整體評估這次修改的辦法真的可以有效的減少那個案量嗎我想謝謝委員關心其實當時會有一個必要的時候是因為台灣譬如說以小學2600多所裡面我們大概有四成多是六班以下你根本這個特別小型的學校裡面老師"},{"start":392.728,"end":411.774,"text":"沒有幾位所以我們才會說有這樣的假設有一個學校規模太小而造成一些同仁之間的一些不必要的一些困擾這時候可以有例外就是說他即便進入了這個考核辦法裡面本來是校內人員處理嘛對 研哲還是校內的人員"},{"start":412.694,"end":438.37,"text":"就是说我们希望恢复到本来我们去寻堂观客老师本来就是一个班级经营一个小事情不要动不动就进入到我们现在的校事会议才会有这个设计分流但是我也希望我们教师团体必须要去理解我们在那么多的一个团体里我们找到了一些解决的一个方式那让我们能够大家放心走一段"},{"start":439.44,"end":442.354,"text":"最壞 對不起在我的看法最壞也不過跟"},{"start":443.707,"end":470.499,"text":"過去一樣 現在一樣那總是有一個大家都很辛苦在往好的方向在走是不是能夠相信我們對校長 對老師我們會有更多的一些支持也希望他往好的方向來發展這事實上也是家長最大的期望家長就希望他能夠安心的放心的小孩子教到學校當然 我想教師團體會擔心這個也不是沒有道理"},{"start":471.119,"end":487.618,"text":"因為他怕真的例外變常他就說有的學校的校長就真的是沒有肩膀所以他會覺得說雖然已經分流了可是到了那裡去他還是希望說就直接還是讓校外的調查人員來調查 我都沒事所以"},{"start":487.998,"end":515.161,"text":"某個程度啦 這個也不是說像是團體不擔心所以我覺得未來怎麼走或者是不是有提出一些條件來修正 我想這個部長還可以再思考啦那另外我本期要提的是說這次我們還有新增所謂的輔佐人參與制度我們民定行為人被害人接受訪談的時候得依法由輔佐人協同到場來參與那以及協助理解這個程序跟表達意見"},{"start":515.942,"end":531.558,"text":"那這其實齁 說真的在現行的制度裡就有它的規範 類似的規範所以教師團體它現在關心的其實是現在學校它現場請來這些外聘的調查人員大多都是法律專業大多是法律專業 那並沒有實務的"},{"start":533.58,"end":539.186,"text":"消學的這個經驗那所以在調查過程中他會比較沒有辦法針對教學實務作業來詢問當事人那也沒有實務現場的脈絡所以本席要強調的是教師團體他訴求說調查小組"},{"start":550.216,"end":572.487,"text":"納入兩名 學校老師或者是家長或者是其他的校內外人員那他這宗旨其實是要協助調查要讓調查報告更為完整度更高而不是單純是要協助當事人調查過程的陪伴或支持所以部長教育部對於這個輔佐人的概念到底是什麼"},{"start":572.967,"end":588.367,"text":"就這部分有沒有機會可以調整或者考量教師團體的訴求跟家長學生的立場的時候你到底有碰到什麼樣的難處才會做出就是你現在訂定這個基本上跟原本的制度沒什麼兩樣"},{"start":590.417,"end":613.32,"text":"過去他確實有一些學校拼了比較多的法律的專業背景但是我們也透過這一年來的一個資料的蒐集我們希望要有一些包含心理學輔導的專家或者兒童等等的一些那所有的過去的校士會議確實存在了一些問題所以我們這一次的一個秀我們希望"},{"start":614.127,"end":638.607,"text":"真正了解學校的老師的還是校內的老師代表這一個家長他的某種程度對學校的實際的運作他們會比較熟悉那當然有客觀的人大家回到無罪推論真正的去協助這一個問題當然等於說舉花人他一定有些的校外調查人員是從這個人力資料庫去勾選的嘛"},{"start":639.434,"end":665.535,"text":"我們有兩位是從這個人才庫對 這個人才庫是地方的教育局提供給學校嘛是對 那所以他如果提供的這些人才庫就我理解是五倍嘛五倍的讓你去自己學校去勾選嘛那你五倍人才庫給的有可能全部都是法律專學我想我們往好的來看我們校長現在其實也實際在印度有發現過去的問題"},{"start":667.202,"end":686.322,"text":"那學校要學校如果每天昏昏老老這個校長大概也很難繼續做下去所以校長應該本於專業怎麼樣來協助從平常就要增加這個跟老師的一個溝通然後去協助他而不是拿著棍子或者鞭子就我想校長責無旁貸"},{"start":687.343,"end":713.758,"text":"這個部分我們就是讓這個1月12號公佈的我們至少有一些理想性是包含剛才講的做陪伴者輔助人也是當時我們跟基層包含教師會的一個這個教師團體的一個提出來的建議所以我們也從善如流把它加進來類似這樣的等等我想是不是我們也會滾動的修正因為"},{"start":714.318,"end":733.175,"text":"就讓你現在的現行先走一段是然後你會滾動修正是好 那我讓一點點時間我一併再追問一下教育部有宣布我們就是兼任大科老師的重點費有調整20%可是我們接到教學資源老師他們的陳情他們沒有跟著一起調整"},{"start":733.935,"end":760.837,"text":"那可是他們原本領的是跟這些戴克老師的終點計酬是一樣的所以我想要表達是說其實他們他們其實說真的我們在國家語言發展法裡面有明定喔說這些老師是以專職方式為主為原則可是現在我們幾乎都是用兼任的啦都是終點計酬的好那既然他們主要來源是終點計酬那我覺得是不是這個有必要來調整看看"},{"start":762.231,"end":779.751,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實我最近從我過去在大學的經驗專任跟兼任的終點會一定是一致的然後我上個禮拜我發現這一個本土老師本土研的老師或者這個代理代課我們其實當時的一個這一個"},{"start":782.714,"end":811.989,"text":"修正了一個精神就是希望它一體適用那也跟我們報告但是我們在過去的行政程序確實還要走一些程序那這個禮拜我們會走完那一個程序那我想我也希望也特別跟彭署長講說我們應該在未來這一個機制建立以後就一體適用不要在這邊又走一次這邊還要行程序再去給院長核定我想這個部分我想我們是有共識的"},{"start":812.349,"end":837.9,"text":"因為我們已經把修正把教學資源老師把它更名了嘛本來叫做教學資源工作人員嘛所以我想這個是對表達他們對教學這個資源人員的尊重所以我期待說這個在終點放上實際上實質在課堂裡面授課嘛所以這個東西不應該因為身份上的差異沒錯 沒錯 而有不同好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝委員關心 謝謝好 謝謝林怡謹委員請部長署長回座"},{"start":847.801,"end":876.07,"text":"現在是處理臨時提案的時間那今天有張雅琳委員等其他兩位委員提出臨時提案一案那請宣讀臨時提案政府今年推動教師待遇調整核心目的在於支持教師專業減輕教學現場負擔並穩定教育人力然而114年12月公布教師待遇調整方案中多數均得回溯至114年9月1日生效"},{"start":876.65,"end":905.585,"text":"唯獨特殊教育教師加急僅至115年2月1日起實施造成同一政策下對特教教師之差別待遇特殊教育教師長期承擔高度情緒勞動專業要求與教學壓力其工作負擔與專業強度不亞於一般教師甚至更為繁重此次調整方案已影響現場士氣亦不利於特殊教育教師之留任與穩定"},{"start":906.785,"end":923.86,"text":"進而衝擊特殊教育學生之授教權益中上請教育部針對特殊教育教師加緊為比照其他教師待遇調整回溯至114年9月1日一案建請教育部研議補救及回溯機制提案人張雅琳 陳秀寶 煥雲 宣讀完畢"},{"start":926.428,"end":950.335,"text":"好 那請問提案委員有無補充或說明的意見好 因為我剛剛其實也有特別在因為我其實已經講過很多次了啦所以我想這個內容應該沒有太大的問題嘛那剛剛是有講說希望是給我們給教育部一個月的時間那我想就是這邊如果沒有任何的問題的話那我的意見就是如上 謝謝好 因為張雅琳委員的確剛才也在質詢的時候也問到那教育部這邊有意見嗎"},{"start":954.022,"end":970.311,"text":"我想我們在一個月因為涉及到地方我們要跟地方來討論那倒是利用這個也澄清一下我們特教老師在當導師他有帶班他導師會還是一樣已經就是提升了導師會是提升了但是特教的這個職務的加級我想我們跟地方再來討論看怎麼樣有一個好的一些共識謝謝"},{"start":981.818,"end":1002.746,"text":"好 那我也再釐清一下就是說我知道特教老師如果有兼任導師他是可以有這個佳績 導師費是有的可是問題是並不是每個特教老師都有有時候他們可能是兩個人留當老師導師所以我想這個部分還是蠻重要的啦那就是再麻煩教育部多幫忙 謝謝好 這樣雙方沒有異議那就無意間我們就招案通過好 謝謝繼續進行會議"},{"start":1007.728,"end":1012.432,"text":"一個月沒錯 這邊已經寫了一個月了好那就現在請羅志強委員質詢時間4分鐘有請鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":1028.274,"end":1050.429,"text":"委員好部長好請教一下教育部這次修正教師解併辦法跟成績考核辦法是想幫老師來解決問題還是想幫老師製造問題找麻煩呢沒有從來沒有找麻煩的念頭所以是想幫老師解決問題當然部長這就是我要跟你講的事情"},{"start":1051.345,"end":1060.46,"text":"那如果你是纯粹是想帮老师解决问题你怎么会搞到教师团体们群起抗议呢我相信很多委员都办公室接到抗议老师的抗议了你知道吧"},{"start":1061.26,"end":1083.361,"text":"我知道那我就不能理解啦那想請問到底是老師們杞人憂天還是教育部溝通不足還是老師們不相信教育部過去你們的公信力不夠是哪個因素你認為是幫老師解決問題結果老師們認為你是在製造問題找他們麻煩呢"},{"start":1085.245,"end":1113.774,"text":"我想台湾的教育我从这个前年的520进来我确实发现我们学校里边多一份的不信任不管从学校对地方对中央或者教师团体家长团体我想我们确实在努力希望能够有一个更多的这样的一个对老师的一个支持我跟部长说起码我觉得教育部真的这件事就要好好检查"}]}},{"id":"167192","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167192","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851628ed47fd0d20577c02888e1e08ec3718205b9f77f5a55a6be8a7296b23f08fd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:02:36 - 11:16:40","影片長度":"00:14:04","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T11:02:36+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T11:16:40+08:00","duration":844,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.4478437500000005,"end":6.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.08471875,"end":8.265968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.037218750000001,"end":14.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.285968750000002,"end":26.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.047843750000002,"end":32.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.869718750000004,"end":50.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.26346875,"end":57.220343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.35096875000001,"end":70.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.34909375000001,"end":73.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.35284375,"end":90.56534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.70034375,"end":92.30346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.92784375000001,"end":93.55221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.88971875,"end":116.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.41346875,"end":117.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.59471875000001,"end":131.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.14534375,"end":145.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.94471875000002,"end":153.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.34034375000002,"end":180.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.35721875000002,"end":180.77909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.43721875,"end":190.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.35534375,"end":220.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.04284375,"end":228.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.07534375,"end":242.22096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.32221875000002,"end":258.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.02846875,"end":272.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.77471875000003,"end":263.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.88284375,"end":274.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.90346875,"end":278.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.68784375,"end":281.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.56096875000003,"end":281.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.59034375000005,"end":286.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.80909375000005,"end":285.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.33221875000004,"end":303.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.18596875000003,"end":317.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.96846875,"end":336.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.67034375000003,"end":382.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.94159375000004,"end":389.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.79284375000003,"end":392.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.38721875000005,"end":396.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.04909375,"end":410.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.05096875000004,"end":421.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.28159375,"end":443.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.48034375000003,"end":445.95284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.27346875,"end":449.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.34471875,"end":449.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.73284375000003,"end":449.74971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.74971875000006,"end":449.78346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.78346875000005,"end":449.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.82971875000004,"end":451.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.36971875,"end":452.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.09096875,"end":454.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.49159375000005,"end":481.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.62471875000006,"end":467.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.97284375000004,"end":481.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.31409375000004,"end":489.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.08096875,"end":493.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.21534375000005,"end":495.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.05034375,"end":498.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":499.17659375000005,"end":513.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.45284375,"end":536.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.62221875,"end":537.2465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.33096875,"end":538.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.44471875,"end":542.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.7859687499999,"end":556.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.06221875,"end":556.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.0959687500001,"end":560.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.1128437500001,"end":556.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.76596875,"end":563.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.3015937499999,"end":563.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.5672187499999,"end":586.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.38221875,"end":598.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.6840937500001,"end":607.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.0203437499999,"end":628.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.2765937500001,"end":615.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.1140937499999,"end":634.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.03721875,"end":636.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.35346875,"end":639.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.57659375,"end":640.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.59346875,"end":639.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.23034375,"end":643.4072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.6772187500001,"end":680.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":647.8115937499999,"end":647.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.90346875,"end":687.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.34971875,"end":697.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.85971875,"end":691.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.3528437500001,"end":698.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.29721875,"end":702.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.5034687500001,"end":705.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.87471875,"end":702.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.8953437499999,"end":713.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.19784375,"end":718.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.5347187500001,"end":721.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.57221875,"end":726.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.0190937500001,"end":725.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":725.89221875,"end":728.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.98034375,"end":731.3090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.8915937500001,"end":730.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":731.35971875,"end":735.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.3840937500001,"end":746.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.25596875,"end":757.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.22034375,"end":778.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":779.21721875,"end":804.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.3315937500001,"end":812.1909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":804.1922187500002,"end":804.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":812.64659375,"end":815.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":816.03846875,"end":816.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":816.07221875,"end":816.0890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":816.44346875,"end":837.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":821.96159375,"end":822.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":827.6484687500001,"end":827.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":834.04409375,"end":834.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":837.0984687500002,"end":840.8447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":837.3515937500001,"end":837.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":837.4697187500001,"end":837.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":841.8740937500002,"end":843.6797187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.149,"end":6.473,"text":"現在主席我們有請部長有請正部長委員長"},{"start":15.659,"end":31.606,"text":"部長好我想今天要討論營養午餐前陣子台北市長蔣萬安市長她也就率先提出了免費午餐這件事情其實我收到非常多基層的家長來跟我表達一個擔心就是說"},{"start":33.067,"end":55.487,"text":"擔心不知道到底吃什麼會吃到什麼東西然後特別是說小朋友又在發育階段其實非常在乎的就是吃的內容到底是什麼有沒有辦法很健康有沒有辦法幫助他們發育成長那也擔心說現在其實已經大家也知道嘛我們的廚餘大概一年就500噸了如果今天是免費的會不會到更多的這個廚餘所以"},{"start":58.407,"end":78.727,"text":"今天想要跟部長來討論就是說我們如何在現在的這個狀態之下那有沒有一些部應該要來強力要求的跟監督的就是說我們現在來看一下這個是韓國的一個案例就是韓國在2011年的時候呢"},{"start":79.267,"end":91.442,"text":"他其实也提出了一个免费学校公餐但是他们发现了有一个学术研究的sustainability他发现就是说今天我们如果把这个预算"},{"start":92.967,"end":115.467,"text":"拿走去做營養午餐的話那他其實上對於體育教育的經費就發現了顯著的一個縮減因為在為了支應免費午餐的一個龐大的開銷他必須要去挪用原本屬於校務基金的體育相關的項目那當時這個數據也可以看到每所學校每年從校務基金提取的體育資金大概是310萬韓元那"},{"start":119.19,"end":145.324,"text":"這個時機的影響到是什麼是學生的健康的負面影響在全面實施免費午餐的學校裡面來看學生的體適能是下降了從這個優良成績裡面下降了1.5%所以我們非常清楚的看到如果我們沒有想清楚就去做這件事情的話它很有可能會去排擠到我們教育其他很重要的一些預算"},{"start":146.985,"end":169.917,"text":"那我想說以台北市來說也花25億元來推動營養午餐的話呢它有可能的抉擇會是什麼這個我想部長也非常清楚的就是說以台北市現在其實每一年是有編列40億來面對這些老舊校舍的修繕跟改建那國中小校舍大概已經在台北市已經有533棟已經超過屋齡50年"},{"start":172.859,"end":190.658,"text":"如果今天蔣市長願意把經費投注到老舊校舍的修建的話那這個速度就會更快學校的設備也就會更好那我想問就是說從部長您的觀點來看您覺得您會如何建議呢"},{"start":192.863,"end":209.594,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實這個地方願意勇於承擔這不是壞事但是我們確實會在意就是這一個營養午餐的提供的一個品質所以我們目前來講從教育部我們要確保他是不是使用山上AQ國有食材在地"},{"start":210.194,"end":227.802,"text":"然后健康新鲜等等的那第二个我们当然也会从专业里边来提供许多营养午餐的一些营养成分等等的一些协助第三个就是说在整个里边我们会透过一定的一个检核的机制希望去了解各地方"},{"start":229.13,"end":256.208,"text":"政府的这一个地方的这个营养协同营养午餐实施的一个情况陈主委员刚才提醒的很好如果你这一个地方要把营养午餐当成你施政的一个城市治理的政策我们乐观其成这是地方自治法授予的权利但是你要确保品质那如果因为这样而造成协同的一个健康影响他的这个体育因为带来了健康的一个这个"},{"start":257.665,"end":274.766,"text":"下降那我想這並不是我們所樂見的那這個部分我想我們會中央跟地方來合作來把那個請和機制我們也會充分的讓地方知道我們是在意你這一個當然我們尊重地方"},{"start":275.953,"end":303.441,"text":"这个的权限但是我们一定会在这个品质上一定会把关了解我想这个家长最担心的还是品质这件事情对那特别是说因为我这边刚好也收到一份资料就是说我们台北市的这个特教生跟疑似生的比例其实是相当高的大概百分之占全体的学生百分之七所以我想如果说我们今天在整体教育来盘点的话"},{"start":304.241,"end":317.091,"text":"家長應該會更希望說我們是不是可以有校舍的增建加速或者是說可以得到更好的師資對家長來說可能會是更關鍵的一件事情不過我還是要講回來品質的部分品質的部分我也是覺得說我們可能有幾抱歉喔"},{"start":319.005,"end":334.972,"text":"我想有三點是需要教育部來積極的把關那在可能相關的草案上面應該要再來研擬就是說針對於制度性的營養標準專業人力的配置以及食源來源的控管也就是剛剛部長所講的三張EQ那這個版本其實是我們參考了這個"},{"start":336.733,"end":359.407,"text":"美国的国家学校午餐法它其实是有设定一个最低的营养成分标准我们现在虽然说我们也有一个相关的可能说我们是说我们要有食物内容及营养基准我们虽然有强调多样的食材均衡营养等等可是我们其实没有一个统一的"},{"start":359.907,"end":386.95,"text":"执行的统一性跟监督的力度也没有一个完整的一个营养成分的标准所以呢我想这个部分其实是要再来努力的去强化因为才能够去确保小朋友吃进去的东西是有符合到一个营养标准的那再来就是说专业人员的定期把关因为目前其实说我想这个部长都非常清楚了就是营养师的人力短缺目前呢根据营养师工会的一个资料就是说目前大概是一笔"},{"start":389.851,"end":408.48,"text":"全台灣的中小學大概有177萬人可是呢總共只有700個專業營養師那現在呢台北市有94所學校本來應該是要應聘94位營養師可是他們只聘了36位所以等於只有補齊了38%的一個應聘需要"},{"start":412.096,"end":433.935,"text":"那根據現在的學校衛生法規定只有40班以上才需要配置一個營養師可是也只有22%的國小達到這樣子的門檻所以這告訴我們的是什麼學校本來就沒有一個法定的很多學校沒有法定必備的營養師那剛剛講的是品質接下來就是營養師如何來協助這件事情所以我想問一下在我們的新版"},{"start":434.856,"end":442.583,"text":"是不是會將營養師的人力比進行一個比較明確的規範那比例又是多少是500比1還是550比1可不可以請教一下部長我們現在的一個設計是550對來是不是請署長"},{"start":453.137,"end":481.657,"text":"好可以我们简单说明好不好简单说明两点第一个就是目前公职的部分550比1那也跟营养师联络全联会做个沟通他们建议有一些小校或比较偏乡的那要顾虑那应用人数算可能算不到没有办法帮助到所以这些我们会在修专法的时候的条文跟委员一起来探讨所以两点第一点就是人数上是550比1第二点要顾虑到比较特殊情形对对是是"},{"start":483.356,"end":492.454,"text":"好 那這個部分的話就是在現在會在專法的版本上面去做一個調整嗎因為剛剛是聽說好像是在專法上面要再來討論"},{"start":494.249,"end":513.038,"text":"所以現在是所以剛才部長他事前就有開會如果專法一直在處理的過程中不能等那現在地方政府跟我們會就一些措施性來努力就如以往我們會聚在食材上一直努力那這一波可能會在人事上大家一起來想"},{"start":513.558,"end":537.726,"text":"好 了解 那接下來還有一個部分就是在3張EQ何去何從我覺得這個也是蠻關鍵的地方因為我們過去是每年38億由教育部來補助我們的地方但是還是回到才化法才化法已經撥給各地的縣市政府自行運用所以未來除非我們是法律明確有規範不然可能"},{"start":538.547,"end":560.436,"text":"地方政府就不會依循這個原則來採購食材我們確實今年我們去查地方是不是也確實的在15年跟14年有把這樣一個331Q的經費編在這個年度的預算所以是已經在盤點了嗎那是不是可以讓我們知道這個盤點的結果大概什麼時候可以知道"},{"start":561.82,"end":586.023,"text":"今天下班前給委員好 謝謝那再來還有接下來要回到這個校園這個不適任教師的解聘辦法那我想部長應該已經很清楚的知道我們1月15號老師們還要再走上街頭再抗議那我想要針對一個我一直在強調也一直在爭取的一件事情就是很多的老師其實進入校師會議之後最後他其實是"},{"start":587.421,"end":598.056,"text":"沒事的他其實是無辜的可是因為這整個過程之中其實他要常可能經過不是數個月而已有時候甚至到一年的時間其實非常長的那我不曉得說"},{"start":599.721,"end":627.805,"text":"我們現在在這個名譽上面老師在這個過程之中可能會被想說他做了什麼事情啊然後他會有很多的傳言出來其實是影響到他的名譽那我會認為說我們應該要有一些協助的機制可是我們現在其實並沒有任何名譽回覆或實際的補償的機制那你們一直跟我們說在研議那我想要知道何時會研議完成那是否有一個明確的時程呢"},{"start":629.301,"end":658.921,"text":"我想跟委員報告確實有很多的委員也都在關心我們如果被冤枉我的態度將心比心如果被冤枉我事實上可能我們現場的老師他們事實上比我還更優雅以我的個性我大概很難優雅所以我們事實上一直在努力那權敘部這邊我們也在積極在溝通權敘部這邊說不定如果從法令上源頭上來來跟著改"},{"start":659.341,"end":680.502,"text":"那人種這邊大概在人事裡面因為我們現在有許多的法律是公教是綁在一起的我們希望能夠用最短的時間裡面能夠把這樣的一個法令能夠建立共識然後修改法令能夠對老師的權益有多一份的一些這個保障包含民意的恢復以上"},{"start":680.982,"end":702.137,"text":"那我想問一下這大概是我們還要多久的時間可以有一個比較明確的那我認為啦因為這個制度就是在進行嘛現在就是還是會有教師會議那現在如果我們沒有任何的積極的作為的話我覺得還是會有很多老師那我們可不可以有一個明確的時辰啊那利用這個機會跟教師團體說我們當然現在的法令沒有辦法一次到位"},{"start":702.918,"end":717.426,"text":"我們修法一直在往那個方向走就是說給一些時間我們一定會有一個能夠更支撐老師能夠安心留在學校親自合作去指導小孩子我想那是我們樂見的"},{"start":718.578,"end":734.959,"text":"好 那我想這個是不是一個月之後來跟我們報告一下現在的進度好不好可以啊可以嗎 一個月之後跟我們報告一下我們會跟人事單位來跟進度進度的部分那最後一個部分是想要在講特教加擠回溯的部分"},{"start":737.438,"end":756.97,"text":"我其實在1月10號質詢之後現在也又超過10天了那我認為特教家級真的是對老師來說我們去年就已經承諾可是今年2月1號才執行我認為對老師來說其實不是很尊重啦所以上次是次長有回覆我說剩下四個縣市那我想要再來做一下進度我們現在又過了兩個禮拜之後我們現在溝通的狀態是怎麼樣呢"},{"start":759.224,"end":778.645,"text":"我想特教家籍这个部分确实这个国教署做了相当的努力也有一定程度的获得到院长的一个支持才可能在今年的2月1号通过那当然这个建立的过程里边地方政府事实上还有面临到许多不一致的一个看法"},{"start":779.286,"end":797.649,"text":"我想这里边也要谢谢我们彭署长他跟地方上的扯充那当然我们也知道特教老师他们希望说能够像这一个我们其他中小学老师能够中点会或者家里能够恢复能够追溯到这一个9月1号这我想"},{"start":798.109,"end":815.419,"text":"我們來研議這個確實它有一定的一些挑戰跟難度有啦 因為上次我們問的時候次長是說他們剩下四個縣市嘛那我想問的就是說過了兩個禮拜我們現在溝通的狀況如何呢還是依然在卡還是怎麼樣是不是可以簡單回覆一下"},{"start":816.499,"end":843.436,"text":"跟委员报告两点就是第一个那次跟委员报告的是去年在协调的时候有四个县市到六个县市需要进一步协商后来大家都同意觉得这是好事那因为这个新的变化往前提的这件事是不是给我们点时间1月7号算一个月嘛那时候是不是给我们2月7号前跟你回报好不好好 那我们就2月7号的时候再来追一下好不好 谢谢好 谢谢张亚林委员"}]}},{"id":"167191","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167191","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8519f3fedb5a40713ba75d69df13e4e8eda8205b9f77f5a55a6176963589987de955ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"10:54:33 - 11:07:12","影片長度":"00:12:39","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:54:33+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T11:07:12+08:00","duration":759,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":2.1234687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.53659375,"end":11.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.822218750000001,"end":15.606593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.876593750000001,"end":16.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.27659375,"end":21.816593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.42409375,"end":25.090343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.64721875,"end":28.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.97159375,"end":33.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.56159375,"end":45.407843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.17659375,"end":42.454718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.627218750000004,"end":48.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.83346875,"end":50.993468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.212843750000005,"end":53.204093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":54.45284375000001,"end":54.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":55.14471875,"end":56.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":56.93346875,"end":57.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.60846875,"end":67.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.61534375000001,"end":68.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.26909375000001,"end":69.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.04534375,"end":77.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.33971875,"end":76.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.04409375,"end":78.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.63471875,"end":86.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":86.66721875,"end":94.81784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":95.40846875000001,"end":96.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.97784375,"end":97.99034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.31096875,"end":101.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.98971875000001,"end":106.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.32659375,"end":110.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.46159375,"end":106.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.51221875,"end":106.98471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":109.46534375,"end":110.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":110.84909375000001,"end":112.73909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.26221875,"end":123.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.38721875,"end":126.17159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.37409375000001,"end":128.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.36534375,"end":156.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.52534375000002,"end":175.63221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.00346875000002,"end":181.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.55534375000002,"end":184.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.63096875000002,"end":188.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.32221875000002,"end":191.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.13596875000002,"end":203.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":201.72096875000003,"end":202.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":204.33659375000002,"end":211.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":212.41971875000002,"end":216.21659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.08971875,"end":218.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.01784375000003,"end":224.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.89034375000003,"end":225.78471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.44721875000002,"end":228.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.87284375000002,"end":229.64909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.88971875000001,"end":228.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.95721875,"end":231.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.80909375000002,"end":244.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":235.99409375000002,"end":236.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.74409375000002,"end":243.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":244.17846875,"end":255.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.67909375000002,"end":255.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":255.41721875000002,"end":270.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.28409375,"end":271.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":271.46534375000005,"end":279.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.97034375000004,"end":281.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.03346875,"end":282.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":281.50596875,"end":281.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.94034375,"end":285.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":284.59409375,"end":285.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.45034375,"end":286.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":286.95659375,"end":287.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.54721875,"end":288.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.30221875,"end":290.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.01034375,"end":296.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":297.26721875000004,"end":319.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.00471875,"end":303.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.15221875000003,"end":305.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.40284375000005,"end":321.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.41971875,"end":333.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":329.65034375000005,"end":330.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":333.83534375000005,"end":345.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.34034375000005,"end":343.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.75346875,"end":347.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.12034375,"end":346.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":347.08221875000004,"end":360.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.13596875,"end":354.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":361.13909375000003,"end":371.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.51346875,"end":390.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.14034375,"end":380.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.57034375,"end":382.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.63784375,"end":383.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":390.40034375000005,"end":394.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.72909375,"end":393.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.60221875,"end":394.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.61909375000005,"end":396.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.82159375000003,"end":398.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.39909375,"end":411.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.02346875,"end":400.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":402.61784375,"end":403.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.30409375000005,"end":418.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":412.33784375000005,"end":412.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":418.53096875,"end":419.40846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.02034375000005,"end":422.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.96096875,"end":421.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":421.78784375000004,"end":427.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.87159375000005,"end":428.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":429.38159375000004,"end":430.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.02284375000005,"end":431.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":431.25471875000005,"end":433.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.95909375,"end":445.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.14471875000004,"end":433.33034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.15721875,"end":435.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":440.08034375000005,"end":441.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":441.78471875,"end":443.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":444.60284375000003,"end":448.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.52221875000004,"end":450.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":448.51784375000005,"end":449.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.45846875,"end":454.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.98534375,"end":475.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.90034375000005,"end":458.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.65346875000006,"end":471.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":471.67034375000003,"end":472.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.58534375000005,"end":489.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.93784375,"end":492.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":490.38471875000005,"end":491.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":492.46034375000005,"end":503.32784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":503.90159375,"end":524.6240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.7422187500001,"end":525.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":531.81284375,"end":532.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":533.36534375,"end":553.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":553.5478437500001,"end":561.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.20471875,"end":563.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.03159375,"end":563.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.74034375,"end":563.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.79096875,"end":563.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.3984687500001,"end":576.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":568.7353437500001,"end":569.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.25846875,"end":569.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":569.27534375,"end":569.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":576.12659375,"end":576.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.39659375,"end":577.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.8984687500001,"end":591.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":581.45909375,"end":581.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.8215937500001,"end":584.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":584.46284375,"end":584.4965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.9384687500001,"end":602.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.7009687500001,"end":599.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.89034375,"end":625.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.18034375,"end":611.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.1928437500001,"end":612.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":616.32284375,"end":616.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.33971875,"end":616.4072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":616.4072187500001,"end":616.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.5422187500001,"end":616.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":616.64346875,"end":616.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.79534375,"end":616.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":624.96284375,"end":625.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":625.89096875,"end":638.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.41346875,"end":631.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.00721875,"end":638.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":638.3784687500001,"end":638.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":638.56409375,"end":640.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.3234687500001,"end":639.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.6103437500001,"end":639.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":641.12909375,"end":641.4834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.1628437500001,"end":643.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.77846875,"end":651.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.67221875,"end":649.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.79409375,"end":655.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.3884687500001,"end":663.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.36659375,"end":660.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":660.38346875,"end":660.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.2140937500001,"end":669.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":667.9097187500001,"end":669.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.22596875,"end":669.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":669.96846875,"end":675.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.5165937500001,"end":674.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":676.0434687500001,"end":684.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.1609687499999,"end":680.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.59096875,"end":688.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.5984687499999,"end":689.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.89784375,"end":694.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":694.43721875,"end":694.4709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.79159375,"end":695.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":695.0278437500001,"end":695.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.0447187500001,"end":695.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":695.1628437500001,"end":695.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.1797187500001,"end":695.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":695.97284375,"end":715.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":697.23846875,"end":697.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.50409375,"end":698.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":701.7947187500001,"end":702.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.10909375,"end":715.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":715.80096875,"end":715.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.95284375,"end":720.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":716.45909375,"end":716.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.3403437500001,"end":722.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.0403437500001,"end":725.8584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.14096875,"end":727.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":728.9465937500001,"end":729.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":729.99284375,"end":730.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":731.51159375,"end":737.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":737.83971875,"end":741.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":741.7547187499999,"end":743.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.5603437500001,"end":744.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":745.2140937500001,"end":746.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.88471875,"end":749.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":747.9309687500001,"end":753.5672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":751.08659375,"end":752.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.04409375,"end":753.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.2297187500001,"end":753.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.5672187499999,"end":753.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":754.4953437500001,"end":757.85346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.189,"end":1.87,"text":"好 謝謝主席 內政部部長有請請劉部長委員好部長午安 這個現在我就直接問問題好了就現在確定這個"},{"start":29.208,"end":53.214,"text":"減少直接興建社會住宅已經確定是中央政府的政策方向了嗎在目前為止我們已經有跟院長報告過但是我們的總目標100萬還是沒有變我只問你直接興建社宅嗎直接用樹地來興建的部分可能會減少但是並不是表示停止跟委員報告因為太多人在網路上面用誤解的方式來誤解我們的社會住宅政策所以不是不蓋只是減少 是吧"},{"start":57.642,"end":77.743,"text":"因為目前在溝通上出現困擾所謂的溝通上出現困擾就是說包括這個北北桃中的這個四個市政府了他們現在也目前也出現是戰就是說速度會變慢那大概速度變慢這個牛委員都非常清楚您對這一塊是非常有精闢的見解的所以我們就是跟著他配合"},{"start":78.083,"end":79.403,"text":"所以就跳票了嘛 對不對"},{"start":97.391,"end":122.337,"text":"目前賴總統上任是一年半多那我們是朝著這個方向來努力但是我想您剛也看到了就是蔡總統的八年任內的二十萬戶很辛苦目前很辛苦我理解我從來都很我看這個是一定很寬啦但是你如果就講今天你講政策要修正那你就要承認嘛你當初開出來的支票太大張而且有跳票的狀況部長你會不會承認這件事"},{"start":123.827,"end":139.524,"text":"我覺得在數據上確實是需要調整數據上確實是需要調整好現在很多人當然這個事情當然就社會震動啦尤其是關注居住正義政策的公民團體也好有需求的人們也好這原因是什麼我想我們也講得很清楚不管在媒體上或怎麼樣都講得非常清楚"},{"start":139.904,"end":156.442,"text":"因為在過去這麼一段時間討論居住正義的政策流變裡面直接興建住宅到了最後其實是變成大家的平衡點嘛因為你很多深水區的東西比如說當然我們也看到之前內政部有講國土署有講我們可以釋出很多的空屋啊那我們是不是要克爭"},{"start":157.623,"end":177.635,"text":"更重的囤房稅等等呢這些東西前面很多人倡議但之所以沒有辦法一步到位就是因為這東西涉及了更複雜的利益結構然後以至於要推動相關的政策要付出更高的成本所以果足不前嘛我們前一段時間在這個地方去審理住宅法去討論到稅制的問題的時候政府也一律是保守以對嘛"},{"start":178.275,"end":187.344,"text":"這就是為什麼到了最後大家就是期待說我可以直接興建社宅所以我們有更穩健的社會住宅政策確實政府要花很多錢去興建社會住宅但是難道不值得嗎 部長"},{"start":188.856,"end":215.894,"text":"穩健的社會住宅政策是我們共識性最高的那如何做到穩健的社會住宅政策我剛跟委員報告過我們必須要一步一腳印而且呢在數據上面的我們可能會調整但是並不是表示說完全歸零部長我們之前在這個地方討論過很多住宅相關的政策大家也都非常清楚其實你在直接興建社會住宅裡面成本最高的其實就是土地嘛如果土地有辦法順利取得你還會覺得這件事情財務負擔非常大嗎"},{"start":218.1,"end":247.211,"text":"不是啦如果社宅的土地可以順利的取得直接興建社會住宅的政策的阻力會不會那麼大會不會壓力很大不能只有因為土地成本而已還有其他的成本譬如說跟委員報告有些社會住宅所興建的地區它等於是一個造鎮的計畫那造鎮計畫裡面交通運輸都市計畫的變更等等這些都是需要曠日廢時的這個委員了解的非常的清楚這就是本席今天要特別跟你討論因為我們看到"},{"start":247.831,"end":269.359,"text":"當然你推薦這政策很困難 你有很多的理由是本心願意理解但很多理由其實完全站不住腳了 譬如說我們可以一起來討論我最不能理解的理由就是說 我們沒有什麼剩餘的國有地啦剩下的國有地都在偏遠的地區啊 蓋了也沒有人要住欸這非常荒唐部長 你也抓內政部對不對 國督署也抓這麼多的都市計畫我們光是北北七桃這四個縣市啊 現在有多少條捷運正在蓋北北桃中"},{"start":271.496,"end":290.832,"text":"沒關係 我先講北北基桃就好北部事件是就好我還先不講台中跟南台灣的獨匯區我先講北台灣的獨匯區就好有多少條捷運正在蓋部長知道嗎多少條捷運正在蓋對 大概就好你是說新北還是基隆北北基桃基隆是北北基桃你現在是講哪一條線有多少條捷運正在興建"},{"start":294.039,"end":319.098,"text":"沒關係 今天交通部不在 我不為難你 我唸給你聽環狀線有北環 東環 南環 萬大線有一期 二期有汐止民生線 有基隆捷運在桃園有中線 有綠線 綠線延伸中壢還有鐵路地下化等等這些捷運的大型建設計畫很多基本上至少都是進到綜合規劃階段 很多都已經核定了這些計畫會帶來多少廠商開發 TOD的都市計畫變更"},{"start":320.419,"end":342.009,"text":"我知道委員就是要告訴我TOD但是TOD是不是能夠變成唯一拉動這個直接興建社宅的一個因素其實都是要多重討論所以我剛有提到說我們的態度是穩健的推動社會住宅政策我現在就很擔心啦因為光是這些有捷運建設的地方它怎麼會是偏遠而且沒有人會願意居住的地方呢他們都是有人願意居住的地方"},{"start":342.329,"end":360.028,"text":"所以需要時間我們當初在修正住宅法的時候捷運蓋完的時候可能需要十年的時間我們一度有在討論是不是要把這些區段徵收市地重劃等等取得我留一定的比例一定要興建設宅就是給你大量的土地結果你當初內政部的態度是什麼說我們不要把這個寫得太死不要把它講得太明我們一定會做"},{"start":361.409,"end":371.235,"text":"結果結論是 如果我們沒有給予相關的一些措施的時候你的結論就是不做嘛 然後你開始說 我土地取得很困難這不是很奇怪嗎 明明就有法規上的條件 有建設上的態度如果你認為說3%跟5%的土地取得的話 可能要入法因為我們在過去的一段時間當中 跟所謂的直轄市政府也討論過有些直轄市政府就直接反對3%到5%嘛"},{"start":382.902,"end":411.169,"text":"所以我跟你講嘛所以我剛有提到說我們在直接興建社會住宅裡面最大的問題是溝通溝通還包括中央政府跟地方政府的溝通所以部長你現在是在指控這些直轄市的線索都不想蓋社宅嗎因為就本席的理解地方政府對於這個計畫是不會排斥的嘛不會排斥那你為什麼要自己踩煞車呢對不對我們也沒有踩煞車我剛跟委員報告過我們現在在調整方向怎麼樣穩健的推動包括桃園市長跟新北市長他們也覺得穩健的推動非常的重要"},{"start":412.452,"end":428.151,"text":"我們如果沒有一起合作中央政府如果沒有跟地方政府一起合作的話社會住宅是蓋不成的當然嘛所以我們沒有要踩煞車嘛委員你這樣講你沒有要踩煞車你就維持13萬戶的宣誓你盡量去做不就好了嗎那你為什麼要主動講說我們蓋不成我們現在努力的推進當中"},{"start":429.432,"end":443.923,"text":"那不就很奇怪嗎 但是沒有定案沒有定案又變怎麼回事 不是 報告委員每一件 每一件事情都是要穩健推動的時候從土地的取得到資金到TOD到東西計畫都是要跟地方政府一起來合作我都是鼓勵你積極的去取得積極的去推動我們非常的積極 那你們很積極所以才要穩健那為什麼你要把13萬5計畫砍掉嘛"},{"start":452.81,"end":479.378,"text":"你為什麼辭職不核定然後最後說我要我們還有說砍掉呢我們意思是要調整這個方向那你為什麼要調整調整方向是因為在有限的時間裡面要麻煩地方政府非常的多而且地方政府他們原先所提出的答應直接興建的戶數也非常的多甚至有些到目前為止就完成千戶而已而不是萬戶你有很多的新計畫各地方縣市政府也有"},{"start":479.838,"end":502.928,"text":"若干的進度或一些想法這樣子好了你會後提供相關的資料因為你一下講說我們還是很積極一下講說穩健一下講說還沒有定案沒有這些都是可及性務實性跟精準性三個原則你會後提供相關的資料到底現在直接興建社會住宅的時間表你的穩健所謂的等等相關的一些資料做一下提供讓大家做長期追蹤但本席是建議啦"},{"start":503.988,"end":525.305,"text":"就按照13萬戶的目標 你去拼嘛而不是說 我今天做不到 我就砍我現在 現在大家擔心破窗啊我說13萬戶 現在一下變6萬 一下說4萬 對不對會不會過兩年變2萬變1萬這個是人民的擔心啦這本期只是提醒你而已 好不好希望部長好好加油對不起 原民會我還有1分鐘 部長請回 原民會主委喂好"},{"start":533.41,"end":561.096,"text":"主委 這個我們跟你討論一下桃園羅湖的那個市地重發案因為跟你手下開會開了半天耶這個大概是第一個有涉及原保地但是這個我想在市政府規劃相關的案例裡面對於土地的運用 地主的權益其實都已經做了確保但是因為法規上的一些疏漏而且過去沒有這樣子的一個案例喔所以還是停滯不前啊那看起來這個原民會的態度現在是怎樣如果不修法你就一定不會沒有辦法用任何其他的方式來調整這樣這是可以圓滿的意思嗎"},{"start":564.577,"end":583.565,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們那個在去年12月21號的時候有請那個桃園市政府針對那個4D重畫因為這個案子涉及到的原住民地主有14位那14位地主當中如果依照重畫完之後獲配的只有3位那所以我們要求桃園市政府"},{"start":585.946,"end":610.877,"text":"針對其他的沒有受配的11個土地所有權人的部分進行說明會那桃園市政府後來也召開說明會但是這次說明會當中只有3個地主有到11個基地地主都沒有到那這3個地主當中甚至有幾乎都是反對就是說他們重案所以我們覺得說在這樣子的一個程序正義的部分我們會要求桃園市政府"},{"start":611.337,"end":617.822,"text":"就讓我們的這14個地主的部分他有資的權利知道說他們這個重劃案對他們的土地權益有什麼影響所以我們已經要求桃園市政府針對這未到的11個原住民地主然後進一步的說明本期要擔心因為我們那時候協調會其實就是這樣嘛桃園市政府要去負責地主溝通的相關的一個部分嘛那我們這邊要負責法規上的解釋的排除部分我們要擔心的是會不會地主溝通大家都OK了到時候你還是卡在法規會不會不會確定不會喔不會這裡可以押軍令狀喔"},{"start":641.641,"end":668.197,"text":"不是 根據主委報告 其實因為那個土地重化的主管機關在內政部地政室其實我沒有跟內政部地政室協調 講好了嘛其實他們正式含附的文的部分其實並沒有具體回覆就是說這個如果4D重化的結果如果是不是算是由政府取得這種情形所以這個部分我們還是回歸到我們三保條例37條有關於原保地發射的精神是在保障原住民生計的這樣子的一個立場所以我在講"},{"start":669.558,"end":694.093,"text":"這跟相關地主的權益溝通 這個市政府要把它做好 對對對對那只要他們同意這個要件就算符合了 對嗎還要考慮到說法規面的問題這就是本期今天問這個問題會不會大家溝通好了 到最後你還說我還是要考慮法規面的問題可是跟委員報告 其實目前來看齁我們在去年12月21號 召開這個說明會三個地主 已經到這三個地主的部分其實幾乎都反對的"},{"start":695.454,"end":713.568,"text":"地主的問題不是你要處理的嘛是市政府要去溝通的嘛我要問的是程序面的問題只要地主都講好是不是就可以嘛還是我一定要為了這個事情又要去啟動修法我覺得是很奇怪這當然也是有公共利益啊因為未來也許會有其他的案例也是這樣做處理的只要地主的權益可以被確保原民的權益不會受損其實應該要樂見地方的有辦法"},{"start":713.968,"end":730.604,"text":"做合理的重新規劃跟發展報告委員 我們園民會針對那個原住民保地開要管理辦法現在主管機關的立場就是要保障原住民族的一個生計所以這樣子的一個立場我們會去從這個方向去解釋對 所以 這個主委 就他說了算"},{"start":731.567,"end":757.317,"text":"不管怎麼樣都還是要看法規嗎還是你可以做個組決定一下這件事我們可以用政策解釋的方式處理嘛你說政策解釋我就回去催桃園市政府趕快完成溝通程序這事就圓滿了嘛可以做到這樣嗎希望兩方面都能夠完成啦尤其是那個你現在又變希望兩方面都要完成了對對對對所以那還是要修法例子囉 要解套的話對齁 你說的是對 好 這樣我知道了謝謝 辛苦了"}]}},{"id":"167190","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167190","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851092c148bb1c930b775d69df13e4e8eda37d2db32b336acc651e308782cc5e3445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"13:31:44 - 13:48:05","影片長度":"00:16:21","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T13:31:44+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:48:05+08:00","duration":981,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.3209687500000005,"end":12.704093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.193468750000001,"end":13.817843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.84659375,"end":18.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18.86346875,"end":19.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.69034375,"end":20.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.47909375,"end":33.494093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.915968750000005,"end":43.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.10846875,"end":50.571593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.85846875,"end":55.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.971593750000004,"end":67.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.32409375,"end":74.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.95159375,"end":81.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.82409375,"end":94.76721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.77721875,"end":85.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.27346875,"end":97.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.53471875000001,"end":103.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.87971875000001,"end":119.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.24846875,"end":123.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.64034375000001,"end":125.41221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.81721875000001,"end":127.52159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":128.11221875,"end":128.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":128.88846875000002,"end":133.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.70659375,"end":132.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.17471875,"end":134.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.49096875,"end":135.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.90846875,"end":166.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.46471875,"end":170.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.02534375000002,"end":172.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.77596875,"end":186.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.98471875,"end":207.61034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":209.19659375,"end":210.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.86721875,"end":211.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":211.05284375000002,"end":212.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.20034375,"end":212.68971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.94284375,"end":213.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.87096875,"end":213.93846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.95534375000003,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":215.03534375,"end":218.71409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.13221875000002,"end":217.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.71409375000002,"end":220.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.87409375000001,"end":236.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":223.25346875000002,"end":223.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.61409375000002,"end":238.81221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.38596875000002,"end":300.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.86159375,"end":314.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":315.66096875,"end":323.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.19971875000005,"end":326.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":324.80721875,"end":325.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":326.62971875,"end":327.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.15284375000005,"end":332.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":328.48596875000004,"end":329.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":331.47284375000004,"end":333.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.02534375000005,"end":342.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":333.04221875,"end":333.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":335.89409375,"end":336.36659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":343.15034375000005,"end":352.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":352.56659375000004,"end":362.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.99221875,"end":356.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.00909375000003,"end":356.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":362.26971875000004,"end":362.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.40471875000003,"end":365.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":364.96971875,"end":365.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.32409375000003,"end":376.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":368.74971875,"end":369.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.32346875,"end":369.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.57971875000004,"end":377.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.96346875,"end":407.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":397.50471875000005,"end":398.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":398.21346875,"end":398.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":407.52846875,"end":408.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":412.30409375000005,"end":412.43909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.43909375000004,"end":413.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":412.50659375000004,"end":412.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.68346875000003,"end":422.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":415.30784375,"end":417.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.27284375000005,"end":424.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":425.01096875,"end":429.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.56346875,"end":426.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.31846875,"end":448.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":430.61346875000004,"end":432.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.80471875,"end":450.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.99846875000003,"end":453.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.60971875,"end":461.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.93346875000003,"end":465.84846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.20284375000006,"end":469.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.64534375000005,"end":470.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.13034375,"end":474.28596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.60659375000006,"end":477.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.35721875,"end":479.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.05721875,"end":483.92159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.64346875,"end":485.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.79471875,"end":487.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":487.66784375000003,"end":491.90346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.27909375,"end":501.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.79721875,"end":497.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.82221875000005,"end":499.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.04971875,"end":505.01534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.85534375000003,"end":503.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.23471875,"end":505.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.63971875000004,"end":512.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.56784375,"end":508.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.03534375,"end":512.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.8115937499999,"end":512.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.3347187500001,"end":520.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.2747187500001,"end":520.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.75971875,"end":521.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.2153437500001,"end":531.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.9140937500001,"end":534.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.3022187500001,"end":532.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.93471875,"end":544.3172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.1440937500001,"end":550.0209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.29096875,"end":557.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.98159375,"end":559.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.26409375,"end":560.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.95159375,"end":565.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.0859687500001,"end":570.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.27159375,"end":567.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.50721875,"end":574.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":574.43909375,"end":574.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.89471875,"end":575.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.9578437499999,"end":583.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":583.14659375,"end":583.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.5009687500001,"end":603.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":587.92221875,"end":588.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":589.7109687500001,"end":590.0147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.0147187499999,"end":590.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":590.9765937500001,"end":591.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.29721875,"end":591.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.7947187500001,"end":594.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":603.39659375,"end":603.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.7678437500001,"end":606.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":606.36659375,"end":610.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.0747187500001,"end":611.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.98596875,"end":614.4834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.0065937500001,"end":624.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":618.7022187499999,"end":618.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.2834687500001,"end":631.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":631.7803437499999,"end":632.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":632.52284375,"end":637.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.55659375,"end":633.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":637.6528437500001,"end":638.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":639.13784375,"end":643.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":643.22159375,"end":644.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":645.16221875,"end":645.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":646.3603437500001,"end":649.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":650.0222187500001,"end":657.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.02534375,"end":659.6240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":658.99971875,"end":659.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.97846875,"end":661.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":661.78409375,"end":664.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.1128437500001,"end":668.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":664.9734687499999,"end":665.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":668.66909375,"end":674.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":673.29284375,"end":681.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.61659375,"end":689.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":684.58221875,"end":685.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":685.57784375,"end":686.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":688.88534375,"end":689.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.1553437500002,"end":689.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.1340937500001,"end":691.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":691.70346875,"end":693.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.73284375,"end":693.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":693.86346875,"end":694.8759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":694.1840937500001,"end":695.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":695.95596875,"end":698.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":699.16221875,"end":705.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":705.2878437500001,"end":710.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.3628437500001,"end":714.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.4340937500001,"end":716.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":717.57284375,"end":718.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":719.17596875,"end":723.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.34409375,"end":725.4365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":725.75721875,"end":731.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":731.81534375,"end":750.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":750.47909375,"end":762.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":763.5403437500001,"end":777.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":773.69909375,"end":773.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":777.93471875,"end":778.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":778.91346875,"end":781.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":781.76534375,"end":783.0647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":783.3347187500001,"end":785.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":786.06846875,"end":787.5534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":787.94159375,"end":788.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":788.76846875,"end":789.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":789.62909375,"end":789.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":789.6459687500001,"end":798.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":798.43784375,"end":799.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":800.12534375,"end":806.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":806.8584687500002,"end":819.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":820.15596875,"end":823.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":823.78409375,"end":825.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":825.9778437500001,"end":826.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":828.00284375,"end":828.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":828.7622187500001,"end":833.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":832.35659375,"end":833.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":834.21284375,"end":836.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":836.3390937500001,"end":837.0984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":836.87909375,"end":838.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":838.6003437500001,"end":843.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":843.9665937500001,"end":846.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":846.5990937500001,"end":847.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":847.6284687500001,"end":855.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":855.52596875,"end":857.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":857.4834687500002,"end":857.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":857.51721875,"end":857.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":857.5678437500001,"end":859.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":859.1540937500001,"end":864.2334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":863.3390937500001,"end":866.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":865.27971875,"end":869.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":870.17346875,"end":872.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":873.44721875,"end":881.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":876.40034375,"end":878.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":879.45471875,"end":880.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":881.46284375,"end":886.1709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":885.0234687500001,"end":895.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":896.31284375,"end":896.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":896.4140937500001,"end":899.2490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":896.73471875,"end":897.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":897.30846875,"end":897.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":897.34221875,"end":897.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":898.5234687500001,"end":898.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":899.89034375,"end":899.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":899.9409687500001,"end":899.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":899.99159375,"end":900.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":900.10971875,"end":900.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":900.12659375,"end":917.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":903.19784375,"end":903.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":907.2478437500001,"end":909.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":911.4665937500001,"end":911.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":916.5122187500001,"end":916.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":918.2334687500002,"end":925.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":924.74721875,"end":925.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":926.14784375,"end":938.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":928.54409375,"end":929.9109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":933.1172187500001,"end":933.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":933.9778437500001,"end":934.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":938.8884687500001,"end":941.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":942.1284687500001,"end":946.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":946.8872187500001,"end":952.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":953.13096875,"end":953.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":954.12659375,"end":958.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":955.3415937500001,"end":956.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":957.4678437500002,"end":960.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":963.57659375,"end":963.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":964.3697187500002,"end":967.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":965.11221875,"end":969.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":968.9428437500001,"end":969.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":969.3647187500001,"end":969.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":970.14096875,"end":970.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":970.9678437500002,"end":973.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":973.83659375,"end":975.1865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":975.2878437500001,"end":976.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":975.6928437500001,"end":976.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":976.50284375,"end":976.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":979.6753437500001,"end":981.6497187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.389,"end":13.675,"text":"好 謝謝召委 我的問題會少一點那個麻煩請園民會主委請這支位委員好主委好剛剛我接續吳立華委員提的這個我們更改姓名之亂我想其實很多在這個過程當中很多人其實都遭受到一些"},{"start":34.554,"end":53.116,"text":"令人很生氣又很麻煩的狀況啦那即便現在1月5號的日期已經到了截止了我相信還是有很多人的這個更改姓名這件事情還沒有完成可能陸續之後都會接到護證事務所的通知還需要再繼續去改名字"},{"start":53.737,"end":73.985,"text":"那但是我要提醒主委在已經完成的這些人當中呢也有不少護證人員他們因為具備的訓練不足弄錯法規的所以這是我們的親身經驗就旁邊的人發生的事情所以"},{"start":76.006,"end":102.584,"text":"我是要提醒就是說因為畢竟後續我們還會陸續通知我們還沒更改姓名的族人需要更改的要去改那這部分我要要求你們原民會跟內政部你們要會同內政部一起就針對要去承辦這一次姓名更改的這些護證人員還需要再做一次的加強訓練"},{"start":103.965,"end":126.574,"text":"因為在不少的這個案例當中其實改來改去中間的程序真的是錯的結果也不完全是正確的那這個部分我想我在這裡特別要求你們是不是可以什麼時候大概在兩個禮拜內跟內政部來檢討這個事情"},{"start":129.06,"end":131.848,"text":"會 我們盡快跟內政部這邊來做協調然後趕快來訓練OK 好 謝謝"},{"start":136.891,"end":160.912,"text":"在1月7號這個主計總署依照前年國民黨通過的財化法的版本那試算並公佈了縣市新的這個財力分級那我們台東從第5級調整到第1級花蓮也從第4級跳到第2級那台東跟花蓮加起來只有一個綠島不是原鄉"},{"start":162.073,"end":186.466,"text":"其他的都是原住民族地區全國的55個原鄉光這個台東花蓮就佔了一半台東15個花蓮13個原民會的很多政策都是以原鄉為主而做的規劃可是現在很多原民會的資源可能就無法下去台東花蓮那這個表來我們看一下"},{"start":188.064,"end":207.068,"text":"是園民會前兩年補助台東與花蓮縣府的這個跟公所的經費那這裡面涵蓋了各項計畫的補助經費你們有沒有試算過台東與花蓮在新的財力分級之下接下來縣府跟公所的自籌款會增加多少負擔增加多少"},{"start":215.114,"end":236.295,"text":"目前還沒有精算出來我建議你們趕快盤點 趕快算一下因為原民會的計畫對這個財力分級補助的比例都不太一樣那經費通常比較龐大的是特色道路隨便一條這個特色道路呢動輒都是好幾千萬元的"},{"start":237.677,"end":262.78,"text":"台東的原鄉過去提報一個特色道路計畫假如經費是需要1000萬元公所他們所負擔的是150萬元新的財力分級規定台東原鄉的自籌款必須增加一倍新的財力分級規定自籌款比例增加一倍的情況下我是非常擔心說公所他會沒有錢"},{"start":263.661,"end":291.279,"text":"因為原鄉的這個建設會不會因此而停滯無法繼續發展 本席是非常的擔心因為畢竟每個鄉鎮有時候可能跟縣府交情可能不太一樣原住民的這個假牙補助在新的財力分歧之下台東縣府的自籌從10%提高到了50%我們部落還有很多原鄉的老人家他們的牙齒是還沒長出來"},{"start":292.74,"end":313.361,"text":"那原住民的這個住宅建構修繕的補助地方自籌比例是從10%變到100%那這些補助的政策是直接影響我們族人的這個民生需求那你們到底有沒有跟縣府好好的溝通那這些補助是不是確保可以來繼續執行呢"},{"start":315.697,"end":342.248,"text":"各位報告那個假牙補助原先是三萬六我們不但沒有減少還增加到四萬塊這個不會受影響好所以就是財力分級改變不會受影響所以你們這一筆還是會繼續認對 還增加或許在未來還有繼續有機會增加本席深深期待那我希望就是但其他的可能就沒有那麼好了吧"},{"start":343.186,"end":360.012,"text":"我跟委員講 委員報告雖然是它因為財務法的關係它增加了一些變成第一級但是我想對鹽香不管它是哪一級它永遠是比較脆弱的部分也比較需要協助的部分所以這個部分我們鹽米會還是一樣會給協助"},{"start":362.433,"end":389.034,"text":"好那這個但是你還是要先盤點啦是因為你這樣講我們就還是很擔心啊所以本期希望園民會所有這個需要地方政府配合款的計劃都應該要針對台東花蓮的情形來調降自籌款的比例那專案報行政院同意那特別是由公手負責自籌款的部分一定要大幅調降自籌的比例不然"},{"start":390.035,"end":406.635,"text":"這些公所可能到最後都無力負擔所以這個部分要特別拜託主委也麻煩你們盡快可以盤點各項計畫來跟本席說明然後趕快提報行政院那你們需要大概多少時間"},{"start":412.922,"end":422.017,"text":"兩個月可以嗎這個月就可以報了很難得 本席說兩個月然後園民會自己說一個月先跟你們拍拍手"},{"start":423.342,"end":448.229,"text":"很罕見的情況這個月可以報啦 但是對方回復的話至少給我們一個月的時間你們起碼先報上這個月就把他報上去嘛 處長都這麼說了好 那剩下的我們再來催行政院了另外我們看一下這是上禮拜的新聞要請教一下園民會因為這個財化法的影響希望把原住民的這個急難救助政策移交到地方政府"},{"start":449.109,"end":475.612,"text":"這個部分你們是如何跟地方政府溝通那我跟各位報告我們在去年九月的時候有跟地方政府來那因為財務法那個資源已經到地方去所以就是麻煩地方政府的部分就有關緊張救助的部分也可以來編列比如說像這次新聞是談到那個成功證他就48萬那但是就是因為這樣的狀況之下我們還有66家的那個原價中心跟222個"},{"start":477.383,"end":497.828,"text":"那個原家的一個社工 原住民社工還有33個督導 我這樣問啦 你舉例成功鎮啦 但我們還有其他的鄉鎮你們大家都有同意接手嗎 哪些同意哪些不同意幾乎大概就是照這個政策方向去走 但是就是大家努力要再去跟"},{"start":498.448,"end":518.845,"text":"那個縣政府要去爭取一些相關的預算就是他們要去跟縣府爭取那地方政府有同意接手嗎有縣政府全部同意所以急難救助是救命前那這個部分他不會中斷因為他還有其他的一些相關縣府的衛福部的急難紓困的"},{"start":519.381,"end":541.426,"text":"這些資源都還在你們如果有下去溝通那是不是有一個具體譬如說會議記錄啦有公文啦就是確保這個急難救助是沒有問題的好那這個部分麻煩具體提出具體的證據跟說明不然大家還是挨叫啊那個因為"},{"start":542.046,"end":566.256,"text":"我們另外在這個政府的原住民土地政策上我們都有不斷的在努力所以還我土地這個口號最近比較少聽到但是我們在這裡還是要很認真的喊一下要還我土地啊在原民會知不知道台鐵用了多少我們的保留地 443公頃2997匹"},{"start":570.538,"end":587.017,"text":"好那光台東呢我們就有121公頃喔那過去這個台鐵局是依照這個原保地管理運用辦法規定無償方式撥用了數十年那兩年前這個台鐵公司他已經"},{"start":587.998,"end":610.485,"text":"公司化 公司化之後已經不符合這個無償使用的這個規範那不但不想繳租金現在還很認真的在想說怎麼樣可以把我們的原保地就把它拿過去直接繼續無償使用大家應該都有掌握這個可怕的訊息吧了解 當然有 我們是希望說將來是朝成都的方向去處理"},{"start":611.107,"end":631.008,"text":"我想也是要跟大家講一下各部會其實這件事情對原住民來說是很大的禁忌踩到地雷那就像我們的元寶地光是在那個光是在退福會的那個台堂的我們要拿都拿不回來了現在還想要拿出去那簡直是天方夜譚"},{"start":632.589,"end":661.077,"text":"對所以那個跟委員報告其實我們已經有完全掌握台鐵公司他們公司化之後他們現在就是他們使用的原本在台鐵時代使用的那些比數跟面積讓我們將來我們有去試算過如果說將來承住的話大概一年大概會有兩千兩千兩百五十萬的這樣子一個租金收入那這個部分我們會持續往老朝這個方向去跟台鐵公司那邊去協調所以繼續使用接下來就要收費了是是那前面兩年怎麼算"},{"start":661.966,"end":690.867,"text":"我们再跟他持续协调协调讨债是用协商吗所以那个前两年的租金要缴吗还是免费封送没有应该是要去应该也是要去回溯他只要在租金求全的那个时效范围之内都可以因为已经不符合这个法规的这个范围内了那就麻烦你们好好去讨债吧总共多少钱"},{"start":692.721,"end":709.548,"text":"2200多萬每一年我們初步估算今天如果是以後如果把台鐵公司他們公司化之後他們現在使用的那些原保地的比數跟面積用公告地價去算的話我們大概會每年的租金收入會增加2250多萬"},{"start":711.411,"end":728.503,"text":"好那努力喔好謝謝好報告召委最後一小題很快在上次主委不久前我有特別跟主委來反映其實應該不只一次我們這個真話編的這個"},{"start":731.906,"end":749.665,"text":"土地案件真的是太多了特別是花東地區那人力不足是蠻嚴重的問題那也感謝主委有承諾就是要來解決這樣的問題那大家可能不了解這個人力不足有多麼痛苦"},{"start":750.626,"end":778.305,"text":"那我在這邊也要算是褒獎也表達遺憾啦在過去呢 園民會圖館處有一位非常優秀的泰雅族女生呢她是台大法律系畢業的她非常重點是 難得她非常喜歡辦理這個園保地真化編的業務她不但專業 而且她喜歡那表示她有熱情嘛我們的我們的處裡面是不是特別需要這樣子的人才對 沒錯"},{"start":778.945,"end":799.104,"text":"好 但是很可惜的在前年10月他無預警的就被調到別的地方了 應該不是你調的吧不是 他自己去應徵的不是啦 我是說他不可能自己跑掉 他是不得已沒辦法待才跑掉的不是嗎就跟你說他有熱情 他是不想走的啊那後來"},{"start":800.225,"end":824.945,"text":"他就是因為無預警的就必須被迫要調到別的地方嘛那所以他結果呢最後他回不了圖館處啦所以他就乾脆就對外應徵跑去其他部會就走了叫不回來真的好可惜那前年我想我想另外好就是說"},{"start":829.375,"end":856.303,"text":"這個規劃科研你們現在是編目前原則是三位但是你們編制有七個嘛是所以報告主委比例只有42%你可以回去跟其他的那個科室出事比一下好 那個主委不知道上次您答應之後到截至目前為止你們的進度人力調配的進度有沒有什麼進展"},{"start":857.723,"end":872.596,"text":"可以在這裡報告一下嗎跟委員報告 其實我們這次請政的緣額下來主委也非常支持啦是 他從頭到尾都非常支持對 他實際上那個主委有提供我們圖款處那個相當的緣額來去支援這樣子的一個政劃邊業務的工作"},{"start":873.53,"end":898.809,"text":"你講的是提供編制的緣額還是提供編制內的緣額對啦 但是人沒有到位啊都被別人調走了那個以後會有新的緣額進來大概是三個月那主委請問一下就是大概什麼時候會調回來會補人力啦什麼時候 因為這個問題也問了很久了本辦就好幾百件塞車了"},{"start":900.451,"end":925.569,"text":"來 增加的人員大概多少跟委員報告 行政院合增我們18個預算員額那目前 圖管處可以18個嗎不是不是 整個園民會那因為我們現在還在做那個官制官規要送到那個考試院去做備查還有後續的那個植物說明書的製作所以這個程序辦好之後我們會馬上就是朝經營的方向大概需要多久"},{"start":926.269,"end":952.198,"text":"大概一般來說是兩到三個月的時間因為行政院是1月5號才核定我們這些原額的配置所以我們基本上會在兩到三個月的時間內用最快的方式去做那我們也先跟全序部那邊先打過招呼就希望我們兩個說 兩個機關互相配合盡快的完成這個關智關貴的法制作業程序 以上報告那那個主委 所以18個原額你打算要放多少到圖管處"},{"start":954.287,"end":975.879,"text":"至少四位 至少四位 已經是最多的了我們不用跟主任請示啦不用 不用啦 不用 不用 確定喔確定啦 好 那我就不用問他了喔好 那至今天很好的消息囉 那我們就等待好 謝謝 謝謝謝謝陳議員的質詢"}]}},{"id":"167185","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167185","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851336c8eb1ba61253275d69df13e4e8eda37d2db32b336acc6b22339bbe58c964b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"12:33:54 - 12:44:49","影片長度":"00:10:55","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:33:54+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:44:49+08:00","duration":655,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.24096875,"end":10.712843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.46409375,"end":9.869093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.915343750000002,"end":11.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.716593750000001,"end":16.872218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.69909375,"end":20.399093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.16721875,"end":19.825343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.68596875,"end":21.090968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.563468750000002,"end":22.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.64346875,"end":28.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.207843750000002,"end":29.933468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.574718750000002,"end":33.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.18596875,"end":40.125968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.868468750000005,"end":45.728468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.268468750000004,"end":49.204718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.85846875,"end":52.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.41096875,"end":57.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.148468750000006,"end":63.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.88596875,"end":66.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.90659375,"end":69.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.85534375,"end":73.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.50034375,"end":78.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.24221875,"end":81.50346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.12784375000001,"end":84.65909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.36784375,"end":90.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.71721875,"end":95.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.39159375000001,"end":96.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.66971875,"end":99.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.25159375000001,"end":104.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.52096875000001,"end":114.61221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.21971875000001,"end":120.13034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.72096875000001,"end":127.65659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.00659375,"end":131.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.62221875,"end":138.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.34721875,"end":139.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.68846875,"end":148.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.90221875,"end":152.81721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.95221875000001,"end":164.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.30909375000002,"end":165.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.94596875000002,"end":165.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.96284375000002,"end":166.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.01346875000002,"end":166.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.21596875,"end":174.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.67034375,"end":175.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.68721875,"end":175.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.76721875,"end":175.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.93596875,"end":177.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.04534375,"end":181.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.92659375000002,"end":184.44096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.60971875,"end":189.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.07721875000001,"end":197.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.37971875000002,"end":203.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.72909375,"end":209.83784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.42846875,"end":211.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.33534375000002,"end":220.67159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.90784375,"end":227.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.52721875,"end":229.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.02471875,"end":241.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.36221875,"end":230.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.14596875,"end":237.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.05659375000002,"end":244.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.07284375,"end":261.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.48846875000004,"end":266.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.87534375,"end":276.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.03846875,"end":277.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.46846875,"end":286.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.31596875,"end":283.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.17596875000004,"end":292.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.24284375,"end":292.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.49159375,"end":292.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.54221875,"end":292.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.68971875,"end":295.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.11971875,"end":300.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.08096875,"end":303.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.90784375000004,"end":303.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.71346875,"end":309.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.64971875000003,"end":315.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.46721875000003,"end":315.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.62721875,"end":316.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.50471875,"end":316.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.82534375,"end":318.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.32721875000004,"end":321.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.10346875000005,"end":319.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.90909375,"end":328.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.89971875000003,"end":327.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.96284375000005,"end":328.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.46909375,"end":330.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.67971875,"end":334.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.05034375,"end":342.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.93096875000003,"end":360.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.90284375000005,"end":373.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.82909375,"end":378.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.84096875,"end":383.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.02221875000004,"end":380.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.14034375,"end":380.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.11471875,"end":383.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.13971875000004,"end":384.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.89471875000004,"end":396.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.66159375,"end":394.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.20096875,"end":402.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.05659375000005,"end":405.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.02659375,"end":421.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.50534375,"end":420.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.06221875,"end":421.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.26471875000004,"end":424.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.41659375,"end":430.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.98534375,"end":450.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.55971875,"end":461.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.35534375000003,"end":472.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.75471875000005,"end":472.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":472.80096875000004,"end":475.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.85534375000003,"end":479.28096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":479.70284375000006,"end":493.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.06346875,"end":495.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.51471875000004,"end":495.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.00409375000004,"end":496.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.02096875,"end":520.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.05471875,"end":496.54409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.51346875,"end":505.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.80409375000005,"end":507.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.22596875000005,"end":508.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.02284375000005,"end":511.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":511.05659375000005,"end":511.30971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.30971875000006,"end":511.41096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.38096875,"end":514.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.2078437499999,"end":515.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.93346875,"end":516.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.32096875,"end":556.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.16346875,"end":556.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.9397187500001,"end":561.1415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.4453437500001,"end":578.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.2609687500001,"end":587.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.66909375,"end":589.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.1709687499999,"end":589.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.74471875,"end":594.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.8290937500001,"end":591.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.08971875,"end":606.8897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.2922187500001,"end":598.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.7678437500001,"end":608.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.15096875,"end":611.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.35346875,"end":610.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.02409375,"end":616.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.3103437500001,"end":622.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":621.3347187500001,"end":622.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.1784687500001,"end":622.9209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.9209687499999,"end":623.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.97159375,"end":623.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.7265937500001,"end":636.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":636.6909687500001,"end":640.7240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.1797187500001,"end":650.3428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.84096875,"end":649.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.51159375,"end":650.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.52846875,"end":650.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.7140937500001,"end":650.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.8490937500001,"end":654.1397187499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.52,"end":10.102,"text":"謝謝主席 本席有請劉部長有請部長部長休息了一段時間現在再次上場部長 首先本席要就這個是你們內政部今天的報告沒有錯嗎怎麼會篡改我們召委的題目呢"},{"start":34.246,"end":62.762,"text":"召委今天专题报告的题目是赖清德总统新建13万户社会住宅政策无法落实之检讨那我们内政部呢今天给的报告上面是写当前新建社会住宅政策之挑战检讨与策进百万户租屋家庭支持计划精进方案"},{"start":63.973,"end":83.9,"text":"好我看你們這個精進方案這個該檢討不檢討你們的精進方案你們在報告裡面寫你們這百萬怎麼來的你們應該很清楚真正社會住宅你就12萬戶然後包租代管10萬戶剩下全部都什麼租屋補貼"},{"start":85.444,"end":114.105,"text":"所以这叫做什么百分之这个百万的精进方案90%就是发钱靠发钱10%靠靠盖房这个所以第一个召委我们真的不能不能够这样藐视国会召委定的题目他们直接改掉直接改掉那第二个就是好啊这个百万精进方案我们90%靠靠发钱"},{"start":115.307,"end":127.22,"text":"那現在是不是在你們的百萬戶KPI裡面發了租金補貼你就算是達成了一戶社會住宅的業績你們是不是打算這樣"},{"start":129.119,"end":148.178,"text":"是不是回答就可以是或不是包括委員包租貸款也是社會住宅政策的一環而且寫在住宅法裡面我知道所以您剛講的算法是有錯誤的包租貸款大概10萬戶啊對那你們主要靠租金補貼嘛那租金補貼其實你沒有這些經濟方案"},{"start":148.999,"end":176.849,"text":"大概從人類歷史以來開始大概應該有幾十年都有這個租金那你現在就是用一個租金補貼撒錢的方式發錢90%那來創造這個所謂的百萬戶因為這是最穩健的社會住宅而且能夠達到來補助比較經濟弱勢的族群尤其是在六族裡面租屋補貼我們不反對"},{"start":178.129,"end":202.807,"text":"而是你们的讲法百万户这个呢我们不得不怀疑这个为了今年的选举做的数字工程这不是真正的居住正义那没关系你现在这个百万户我们接着看你们核定了你们这个租屋补贴核定了91万户结果只拨款了65万户"},{"start":203.786,"end":226.191,"text":"那其中還有2.5萬戶是義領然後你們現在開始追殺所以我先就叫部長你這個核定91萬戶結果累計撥款65萬戶請問消失的26萬戶是怎麼回事報告委員他第一個大概是不符合現有的資格或者是說他在資格變成"},{"start":226.551,"end":238.256,"text":"不符合資格那你核定91萬戶 這怎麼回事我們的平台有兩個 一個是地方政府 一個是中央政府中央政府在複合的過程當中 我們也來把關剛剛有提到 譬如說他可能是某一個單一政府在這個核定的時候呢並沒有考慮他有跨縣市的一個房產"},{"start":249.961,"end":260.965,"text":"或者是跨縣市的身分別那這個部分呢我們也會做處理也就是說現在租金補貼裡面違規議領的情形都是因為申請人個人條件的變動比較多議領是後面我只是說你核定91萬戶有撥款65萬戶有26萬戶消失我先談這個議領後面我會談這26萬戶怎麼回事就是有人會重複啊"},{"start":278.516,"end":300.531,"text":"因為租金補貼我剛有提到如果是單一縣市政府他可能住新竹縣但是他新竹縣跟新竹市兩個都申請重複的去掉還有呢還有什麼情況我是不是請我們組長跟您回應一下比較多的那報告委員那還有一些譬如像寒暑假那因為他學生他如果學校畢業了他就沒有來申請了"},{"start":301.941,"end":310.786,"text":"沒有來申請你核定幹嘛那前面會有核定就在一個年度裡面他會有變動還有就業所以一個是資格一個重複申請還有就是有變動有資格變動就這兩個所以這樣就26萬戶大部分的原因是這樣子我看你們是不是可以把這個相關的你們會後還是要給我一個報告"},{"start":328.596,"end":337.594,"text":"好那接著接著部長那剛剛您急著回答的2.5萬戶一領那我有看到你們的報告裡有寫"},{"start":339.063,"end":360.462,"text":"這個申請人資格還有租屋情況的異動那我在這裡我要問的是這中間有沒有是因為我們政府效能政府的執行力不彰系統勾結太慢所以才會造成有這2.5萬的問題啊這一塊我們行政單位有沒有可以再加強的地方"},{"start":361.162,"end":383.235,"text":"當然啊 我剛剛有特別跟委員報告過因為在租補的這個申請條件當中我們都是授權給地方政府那地方政府跟中央政府之間的勾結當然就會出現時間差授權地方政府應該是今年度接下來之前應該都中央吧沒有已經地方在開始了對 已經地方協助所以才會跳增這麼快"},{"start":387.237,"end":401.971,"text":"那這第一個就是說行政的效能跟行政的執行力我們希望再加強第二個本心要為這一些義領追角的人我們可能也要替他們來說一下"},{"start":403.106,"end":419.372,"text":"他除非他是惡意的乍臨否則如果有一些經濟弱勢戶因為這個你們說的這些理由那你要去追繳本來就應該但是是不是可以有給他分期還款"},{"start":420.552,"end":440.299,"text":"我們已經你們有在進行對或者是但是報告委員但是如果他是乍領的話恐怕就不足夠乍領就不行乍領的我們絕對不行那有一些因為就像你們說的申請人資格或是有一些租屋情況的異動那因為一個月假設我們有4000到6000不等"},{"start":441.719,"end":461.825,"text":"4000一年就是假設他這個議領一年就將近5萬塊對一般人來說有的時候5萬塊對他來說可能也是一筆負擔臨時要他拿出來一筆他可能難所以分期還款或者是社福轉介免責的這種機制有沒有"},{"start":462.526,"end":478.014,"text":"這些我們都會跟地方政府來勾結了那剛委員所關心的部分那個署長有提到如果真的有經濟上的困難的話分12期我們給他們分期對12期好OK好那再來再來我們看到這個"},{"start":479.835,"end":495.221,"text":"有關我們社會住宅我們看到報告第二頁說未來的新辦重點在北北桃中北北桃中那很明顯是在直轄市那我們想要了解那請問基隆跟竹竹苗為什麼"},{"start":496.862,"end":508.313,"text":"我想這個是從租金補貼裡面所申請的這個數目還有我們看他的人口結構所以你們的新辦重點不是社會住宅興建的重點原先在蔡總統時代已經興建十幾萬戶那是全台灣各地都有我想你也知道"},{"start":516.041,"end":542.891,"text":"那現在呢我們在要繼續精進的方案的時候我們認為啊有這個需求的會集中在北北桃中那這是從租金補貼裡面得到說為什麼他要申請租金補貼未來在社會住宅包括包租代管的話是以這個為主再加上這四個這四個縣市這四個直轄市政府他們的土地最稀缺也最是淡亡區也就是大部分的人最需要的"},{"start":543.331,"end":560.896,"text":"那既然有大部分人最稀求的這個部分的話呢我們就必須要跟這個四個市政府來一起來討論那同時呢我們也了解包括桃園或者是新北市政府的首長他們也都了解這個部分所以我們常常會漏掉一個我們採取的是多元興辦社會住宅"},{"start":561.536,"end":578.767,"text":"包括除了樹地以外還有包括都更或者是其他的分回等等這些都會列為我們為未來要取得社會住宅土地或是取得社會住宅的戶數裡面的重要的一個方向而且都會集中在這一大的生活圈為主"},{"start":580.771,"end":594.385,"text":"部長你剛剛有講土地稀缺或者是他們的租金比較高之類的不是租金比較高土地真的不容易取得其實新竹縣市也是"},{"start":596.165,"end":621.971,"text":"那當然新竹縣市他已經被列為大家應該知道竹北市也是這樣所以我們還是希望你們還是要當然我們是說以北北桃中為主但是不是表示其他的沒有啊這個跟委員報告以竹那為主那其他有那你那個是怎麼分現在我們仍然在持續盤點就是說比較重要的對我就知道你會說盤點但是呢"},{"start":624.778,"end":652.969,"text":"真的不要忽略基隆跟新竹縣市這些都也是非常都會區的他們的需求還有這些通勤族他們的壓力所以我們也要特別爭取基隆竹竹新竹縣市特別是您說的淡黃區其實你去看全台的淡黃區絕對有新竹縣的竹北市我們要請部長還是要再重視好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167183","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167183","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851e387e718e131eb6075d69df13e4e8eda37d2db32b336acc68b5c004b5ca1c9ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"12:02:22 - 12:10:31","影片長度":"00:08:09","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T12:02:22+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:10:31+08:00","duration":489,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.730343750000001,"end":9.970343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.56096875,"end":13.868468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.762843750000002,"end":17.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.032218750000002,"end":26.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.28846875,"end":30.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.097843750000003,"end":42.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.657218750000006,"end":50.250968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.487218750000004,"end":52.984718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.064718750000004,"end":56.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.393468750000004,"end":57.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.524093750000006,"end":61.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.82721875,"end":63.210968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.329093750000006,"end":67.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.85159375,"end":73.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.79159375,"end":87.00471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.35909375,"end":94.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.86846875,"end":97.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.97346875000001,"end":98.58096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.45846875000001,"end":102.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.76596875000001,"end":106.57971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.18721875,"end":109.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.76909375000001,"end":112.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.78971875,"end":116.48534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.58659375,"end":117.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.05471875,"end":119.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.32034375,"end":132.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.34346875,"end":134.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.99721875,"end":142.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.81034375000002,"end":148.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.39596875,"end":155.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.15846875,"end":160.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.71471875,"end":161.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.35159375,"end":167.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.53221875,"end":173.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.67471875,"end":177.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.07909375,"end":181.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.70284375,"end":187.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.17034375,"end":190.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.27971875,"end":194.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.22409375,"end":204.80909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.09596875000003,"end":209.01096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.56784375,"end":212.72346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.79096875000002,"end":215.64284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.96346875,"end":229.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.34096875,"end":232.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.12534375,"end":240.12846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.10721875000002,"end":267.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.13159375,"end":247.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.11721875,"end":258.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.63471875,"end":294.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.47034375000004,"end":294.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.44909375000003,"end":297.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.13221875,"end":297.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.12784375,"end":301.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.65471875000003,"end":303.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.57846875,"end":304.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.65846875,"end":305.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.17721875,"end":311.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.61096875000004,"end":316.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.79159375,"end":318.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.66471875,"end":320.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.26784375,"end":328.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.04284375000003,"end":334.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.26971875000004,"end":337.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.72096875,"end":355.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.00909375000003,"end":362.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.09659375,"end":396.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.25659375000004,"end":392.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.49221875,"end":398.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.60159375,"end":401.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.72346875000005,"end":401.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.56721875000005,"end":416.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.84784375000004,"end":417.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.16409375,"end":418.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.95721875000004,"end":428.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.56846875,"end":422.81721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.63909375000003,"end":432.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.76909375,"end":449.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.17159375000006,"end":462.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.14471875000004,"end":463.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.94159375000004,"end":474.28596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.95846875,"end":464.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.95409375,"end":465.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.40409375,"end":478.50471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.69034375,"end":480.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.20471875000004,"end":481.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.80784375,"end":484.34346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.65096875,"end":489.96284375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.755,"end":35.423,"text":"好謝謝主席那我們一樣請內政部劉部長然後還有我們國土署的朱署長朱大力署長請一下劉部長還有大力署長部長早署長早這個今天還是一樣針對土方的問題剛剛幾位都是北部的委員那我們今天特別討論中部的部分可以看一下這是你們上禮拜記者會提供的數字就是說其實在台中市台北市新北市部分台中市確實出土量是全國第二"},{"start":35.923,"end":52.808,"text":"但是我們在直接利用之後真正要送土質廠的量只有212萬的這個左右數字這個處理的比例其實蠻多的只剩三分之一需要處理掉但是如果依據你們上禮拜一樣是你們公布的這個地方要擴增最終去處的話你們看那個數字啊"},{"start":54.39,"end":72.545,"text":"剛剛部長提到說不管中長期規劃這個還有這個短期規劃裡面中長期規劃是一億多的立方米這一億多的數字那如果現階段你們上禮拜公布給我們的數字是台北港可以收三千萬那高雄呢收容中可以收七百萬那台中的最終去化最終儲置廠"},{"start":73.866,"end":98.353,"text":"要到115年底會有200萬台中104萬彰化但這個數字是今年年底才會發生的事情但此時此刻到今天我已經19號嘛因為你們16號那天早上你們有開所謂的跨跨院的會議跨部的會議那我記得我們16號下午的時候我跟我們這個署長也有一個協調會嘛有台中一些業者跟廠商來反映他們的想法跟意見那從那天到現在為止其實最核心的問題是台中"},{"start":99.485,"end":106.47,"text":"因為只有內政部的立場你們全國的量是夠的但是你看台中要到115年底這個量才會出來喔"},{"start":107.276,"end":134.256,"text":"所以我們今天要這邊想要解決問題是說那請問一下115年今天1月19號我到今天上午我也跟這些台中的10家土資廠來確認說今天能不能出他們今天還是不能出所以已經19天了如果再一個禮拜用20天那再一個月左右要過年所以很多的這所謂的建案他們現在土房沒有去處所以所謂的B今天你們有ABC嘛B是土資廠的部分可是土資廠因為它沒有C點它沒有地方去化"},{"start":135.077,"end":155.053,"text":"所以倒差B點他不能收所以大家現在卡在這邊所以今天內政部要給大家一個答案說以中部地區來講的話我的C到底要去哪裡我怎麼處理我可不可以送到北部我可不可以送到南部有沒有開放這件事情這個是會請內政部或請國土處給大家一個明確答案到底C要怎麼處台中中部地區的C要怎麼處理"},{"start":156.246,"end":181.12,"text":"是 好 報告委員 那有關C的這個部分我們目前來講 當然第一個就是我們現在原來台中市的這個處理方式從A到C的這個部分 我們這個部分現在是簡化流程嘛 這個部分也可以來處理在今天的下午會議 也會跟台中市政府來說明這個 這個 來 署長我會打斷你一下 早上我也問了這件事情A到C的部分還是 以前的網利還是會送到土質廠"},{"start":182.765,"end":194.024,"text":"就A到C的部分有時候會送到土製廠有價料送到C吧那B要處分嘛可是因為今天你沒有C的時候中間這段它的有價它沒辦法分離出來它分離出來它沒地方放啊"},{"start":195.273,"end":217.595,"text":"我要出土 我這個建案 我這個場地 我要出土 我出來了這個土土壤優秀 很好 有辦法再利用所以我本來有所謂的C去處是可以再利用但是這一坨 這個土方裡面一定有部分需要被堆置 被掩埋 它需要經過這個B的處理但是因為今天你沒有最終去化的這個場地所以它出來這一堆東西裡面"},{"start":218.115,"end":237.731,"text":"他有些要進到B去再利用的部分他的B沒有地方他也不能收嘛因為B他拿不到所謂的最終處這個最終處置這個場地的空間他拿不到照他就不能發給A那所以你說你A到C可以簡化是以後可以把這個所謂中間流程去去化掉嗎直接有價的直接處理直接賣掉就好了嗎然後B沒關係這樣是嗎"},{"start":241.178,"end":248.272,"text":"我們現在是A到C的部分是沒有錯就是沒有辦法處理還要再分類的才會直接到C"},{"start":249.554,"end":272.886,"text":"那當然這個B的部分當然是也經過這個分類處理篩分那因為台中的土質大部分都屬於軟液石塵那其實它很多是有加料有加料的部分當然有一些都可以直接A到C那另外剛剛講那個最終去處我還是要報告一下那目前來講台中港剛委員所垂詢的那我們院裡面也跟這個港公司積極協調現在目前來講115年最近年底"},{"start":273.706,"end":297.132,"text":"這個比較多的143萬房子部分可以來處理短期的之間我們是用這個站置場站置場的部分這個港務公司他也提供這個五公頃的土地但是這部分台中市政府必須要跟港務公司兩個來共同來談怎麼樣去收 怎麼樣收費然後怎麼樣去做後續的這個處理這個上次在副院長的會議也有談到這個事情部長 稍等 部長部長我想問你一下 部長"},{"start":298.171,"end":316.054,"text":"你聽一下你們署長剛剛講的當然一切都很合法 都很合理但是還是沒回答到我的核心問題就是說今天你們公佈的這個政策大家都支持包含GPS 帳篷S 協調會有所謂雙軌並行這大家都支持 沒問題但今天最核心的問題是因為我沒有C我沒有最終去處置的地方"},{"start":316.835,"end":334.69,"text":"台北港有三千萬 高雄有七百萬台中不管你是要暫置還是要最終處分就是那個兩三百萬的數字看起來是有這數字沒錯 但是因為此時此刻是沒有的那沒有的時候你們這個政策的時候你們沒有辦法把中部的這些土方找到去處啊"},{"start":335.61,"end":357.268,"text":"那這個東西要怎麼處理 此時此刻要怎麼辦呢報告委員是這樣子齁 那個我想台中市政府非常明白我們現在的一個運送的機制 包括A到C我們也支持台中市政府可以用直接交換 這個你大概了解那在中部地區啦 當然目前如果比較急的狀況之下他要運送到台北港 那我們願意協助"},{"start":357.728,"end":379.831,"text":"那再來一個就是說在中部地區的其他經濟部所屬的工業區那現在經濟部也正在盤點當中譬如說漳濱工業區這些部分所以我們今天下午呢會再針對非六都的部分再請教一下就是整體出土量比較少的地區他們在處理這個土石方的運送機制上面有什麼困難"},{"start":380.512,"end":401.011,"text":"我們一起來解決那還有一個剛剛那個很多委員在問的就是說如果現在工地已經開挖是不是有這個公安的問題的話這個部分呢公共工程比較沒有太大困難那私人的民間的方向的話呢我們會提供在都市計劃那個我請署長跟您回應一下"},{"start":402.614,"end":428.129,"text":"我們在都市計畫區裡面會來盤點現在就是就土地使用管制上因為只要如果在地方自治條例或定相關的規定就可以來處理排除這個目前土地使用管制的一些問題這個目前在行政院都有來協調但是要縣市政府能夠提出他的自治規定或是自治管理這樣子我們才會知道如何去這個歸管所有的這些土石方的去處不要造成環保問題或公安問題"},{"start":428.669,"end":449.404,"text":"部長你講的都是中長期的問題啦我今天講的是說像你們剛剛提到說經濟部有些地方可以使用包含說漳濱工業區甚至上禮拜的協調會面提到說我們有一個工業區的北部有一塊地它可以使用但是這個土地的使用權土地的所有者都是中央部委包含說經濟部包含各單位"},{"start":450.285,"end":472.896,"text":"所以這部分我也希望說內政部因為你們訂了這樣子的規定出來是由內政部來幫忙協調說這個地方能不能暫時的堆置先解燃煤池因為就是我講的嘛因為你們給台中的方案是到115年底一定要在同樣的都市計畫區剛剛有提到所以我說讓地方政府來處理有關這個自治規定的時候讓我們知道不能造成環保或者是其他的公安問題的話我們會來協助"},{"start":474.437,"end":483.113,"text":"好 那下午就等你們的方案 好不好我們希望你們幫我們要找到對方的地方 至少這一年可以嗎OK喔 好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167182","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167182","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851db428352fba5cb1d75d69df13e4e8eda37d2db32b336acc6a1a78cd5b970aaea5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:51:47 - 12:02:16","影片長度":"00:10:29","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T11:51:47+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:02:16+08:00","duration":629,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-4-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.80284375,"end":7.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.46846875,"end":13.176593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.134093750000002,"end":15.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.15409375,"end":27.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.02659375,"end":39.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.024718750000005,"end":65.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":66.56909375000001,"end":81.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.60471875,"end":227.91096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.01221875000002,"end":279.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.58221875000004,"end":281.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":281.94471875,"end":286.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":287.36159375,"end":340.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.89534375,"end":328.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.97346875,"end":351.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.60471875,"end":354.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.92909375000005,"end":383.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.24971875,"end":382.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":383.95409375,"end":383.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.97096875,"end":384.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":384.03846875000005,"end":384.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":385.03409375,"end":385.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.16909375,"end":385.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":385.20284375,"end":385.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.55721875,"end":402.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":385.62471875,"end":385.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.90596875,"end":394.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.93971875,"end":396.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.20534375,"end":396.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":401.77409375,"end":412.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.62596875,"end":405.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.32159375000003,"end":408.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.38846875,"end":418.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.88534375,"end":419.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.86409375000005,"end":426.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":426.59721875,"end":450.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.85846875000004,"end":431.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.91409375,"end":477.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":477.89721875000004,"end":478.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":479.09534375000004,"end":485.18721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":485.94659375000003,"end":505.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.52971875000003,"end":523.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.32534375,"end":519.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.34221875,"end":519.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.56096875,"end":523.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.5947187500001,"end":523.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.6453437499999,"end":535.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.83784375,"end":534.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.74471875,"end":546.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":545.17784375,"end":578.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.6753437500001,"end":548.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":579.19784375,"end":604.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":605.10096875,"end":606.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":606.92346875,"end":607.4297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.49284375,"end":615.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":614.8547187500001,"end":628.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.11909375,"end":624.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.51534375,"end":627.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.49409375,"end":627.57846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.803,"end":12.946,"text":"好 謝謝主席請我們的代理署長 郭圖書代理署長跟我們劉部長請代理署長 朱慶倫以及我們的劉部長還有部長好 部長和代理署長我接續剛才鄭振淺委員的這個題目"},{"start":28.12,"end":37.106,"text":"我們都知道最近有所謂的一個是土方之亂一個就是房屋租金因為一腳被追回之亂但是你可以看到我們的民眾現在可以說是連滾帶爬"},{"start":45.572,"end":49.617,"text":"但是我們的國土署署長原署長現在是匆匆容容的要去就任新職我覺得看在民眾的眼中這些這麼多亂象然後為這些亂象所困擾的民眾再看在他們的眼裡真的是何其的離譜還有真的非常諷刺"},{"start":66.135,"end":68.698,"text":"好 我們來看土方之亂剛才部長的回答我特別把它仔細聽了一下以現在的土方之亂不是只有南部我們昨天媒體大幅的報導大概都是集中在高雄"},{"start":81.696,"end":100.132,"text":"但是事實上在我們的北部大概包含很多處的工地這裡面包含國營事業這裡面包含民間的建商的案量還有甚至像學校各處的工地因為土方之亂到目前為止很多都還在停工中停工已經超過半個月之久"},{"start":106.678,"end":113.204,"text":"所以第一個你們所提出來這些所謂的解方到目前為止並沒有解決土方之亂第二個我們很擔心的這就是現在很擔心因為有一些他們在挖這個連續幣已經到四層樓或五層樓"},{"start":124.375,"end":129.078,"text":"如果他們繼續處於停工狀態非常有可能發生公安問題因為他們怕工地會崩塌剛才我看到部長有點頭我相信你也聽到這樣的一個說法所以他們很擔心像這個部分第一個應該優先解決好 比如說有一些建地他們說他們可能剛挖一層樓開始擔心但是已經挖四五層樓的"},{"start":148.45,"end":153.154,"text":"很擔心如果還不能動工的話該怎麼辦所以現在是處於一個全面在受害連滾帶爬當中剛才在講就是加裝GPS我們不反對加裝GPS但它有配套的措施那麼現在就是因為欠缺配套措施現在狀況是怎麼樣呢是中間的這些土資廠 土方廠"},{"start":175.433,"end":187.099,"text":"他們等於有點像聯合行為 就是拒收嘛我管你來自於哪裡 我通通拒收所以才造成現在很多的工地處於停工狀態大家急得如熱鍋上的螞蟻"},{"start":191.121,"end":193.922,"text":"所以我想請問部長的因為我也有注意到媒體因為這幾天事實上很多人反映所以卓院長也說他在1月16號就做了跨部會召集我不曉得那個跨部會召集的結果是不是你剛才所說的這是其一"},{"start":210.029,"end":212.833,"text":"第二因為時間的關係我做兩個具體的建議第一個具體的建議是以我們台北市來說你們即便再增加最終的儲置場沒有可能放在台北市所以這些跨縣市的部分"},{"start":228.351,"end":242.502,"text":"真的急需中央來做協調就是跨縣市的部分另外那現在有一些呢鑑定他們是認為說別說他有A鑑定他現在可能挖了四五層"},{"start":243.303,"end":248.467,"text":"但他還有B間地或者C間地這個時候可能B間地C間地還沒有挖所以他暫時解決藍莓之急他可不可以把A間地的土方先暫置在他B間地上面然後他一起來做處置就是說這些土方他還是會做處置但是解決他現在已經挖得蠻深的不要出現公安事件第二個就是你們可不可以輔導或者同意"},{"start":273.423,"end":292.852,"text":"如同公共工程 因為有一些公共工程它在它的原來的限地 它就開始做分類它開始做分類 它不用透過中間的這個土質廠它可以直接送到對 最後的最終處置廠它至少可以解決它極大多數的這個土方的問題"},{"start":293.812,"end":305.521,"text":"那現在有一些民間的這個業者他其實是有能力 他也願意做投資他不要經過中間 因為現在就是中間他們集體的拒收嘛他等於說 他在這個間地裡面他直接 他先做處置 做分類然後這個是 比如說台北港可以接收的因為台北港也不是什麼亂七八糟 他都收啊他要你處理過後 他才收那他就可以直接運到台北港去"},{"start":322.555,"end":331.326,"text":"那麼就解決至少以分類的這些土方好所以我剛才是做了一些具體的建議所以現在就請部長來回答1月16號請問你們到底做成什麼樣的結果那麼今天下午你們又可以做什麼具體保證來解決土方之亂"},{"start":341.778,"end":365.986,"text":"報告委員您剛講的這個三個方法都是我們現在在精進的措施那相關的這個部分的那個等一下代署長會跟您回應但是我跟委員報告就是除了行政院有召開跨部會的會議之外那內政部已經先針對六都跟新竹縣市政府就是出土量比較多建案比較多的已經達成了協議那這裡面包括您剛所提到的戰治區怎麼樣做定義"},{"start":367.026,"end":383.816,"text":"還有就是說如果要送到原來只有收公共工程的量的這個台北港是不是可以收這個所謂的民間的興辦的部分那在台北港的地方呢有沒有可能整理出一個站置區這些都是可行的方案那我請署長跟您回應目前台北港是朝這個方向嗎"},{"start":385.377,"end":412.086,"text":"目前院裡面 院裡面那個李顧問他已經協商大概會有將近14公頃的這個土地可以提供雙北來做站制目前是還在等這個兩個市政府做最後的答覆一週內所以你們可能一週內都還是有點晚喔你們可不可以再 我照不照的還是要加緊啊因為他們挖四五層樓的他們很怕很怕攤掉啊"},{"start":412.426,"end":426.433,"text":"那目前已經開挖施工中的這些工地沒有錯 挖到一半的部分目前我們是有這個配合行政院的這個決策我們現在在做這個臨時站制那臨時站制今天下午會開會跟大家討論所以今天下午會出入臨時站制的規定對 是我覺得這個問題真的一定要解決"},{"start":435.157,"end":448.228,"text":"因為再摘下去我們擔心有公安問題我們甚至也擔心到時候可能有些金融的問題好那另外一個就是大家很關心的我剛才說就是這個租金補貼回收之亂那這個部分"},{"start":451.15,"end":480.262,"text":"我知道剛才有一些委員有特別問到那你們說要跟由縣市政府就是合成縣市政府來加強就是來處理可是因為現在發生很多事情譬如說你說租屋者他有沒有因此就是在這過程裡面他持有房子他不管是用購買的或者有的是用繼承的他會去登記那或者是說他的家庭成員他也持有房屋老師說你在台北租屋的"},{"start":480.922,"end":492.727,"text":"你在南投你在雲林有房子他如何跨縣市去做集合所以這個部分沒有辦法你去折騰縣市這個還是要中央來做統籌啊不然的話真的就會發生這個大家哀鴻遍野說現在要領年終獎金了結果年終獎金還不夠去補回你這個房屋租金補貼啊"},{"start":507.817,"end":522.662,"text":"因為這個是申請人資格的一個變動那坦白講包括像他這些有因為是不管是受證啊或者說繼承啊甚至說是婚後配偶他所原來所有的房屋這種東西的確沒有錯這個是因為他的申請條件變"},{"start":523.781,"end":541.882,"text":"那他是一條件變我的意思是說他變南投出現有房子或者雲林出現有房子我台北怎麼會知道所以才會出現說後來再去跟人家追腳啊才會引起這樣的一個問題啊因為 抱歉抱歉因為委員我們現在是因為總歸戶的關係所以才會掌握到這些資訊那掌握到這些資訊以後"},{"start":542.583,"end":547.445,"text":"我們按規定 因為過去審計部也要求我們我知道你是按照這些相關規定但是這對於租屋者很大的困擾嘛第一個 說家庭成員去有房子 我都不曉得啊第一個 家庭成員他有房子 他也不一定要跟他報告第二個 你們還有 這個是說這個房子他符不符合資格他是不是符合這個自用住宅等等之類"},{"start":567.874,"end":574.977,"text":"一般去租房子的不會去問那麼多啦不會去問那麼多去問房東啊你這個是不是自用住宅你這個是不是這個不能不能報自用住宅不可能所以才會出現今年這麼混亂的一個現象所以在這個部分第一個拜託你們你們現在說要用分期嘛就是減輕減輕這些回繳的他的"},{"start":592.784,"end":596.588,"text":"壓力 負擔但是第二個我剛才講你們全部交給縣市就會出現像這次的這樣的一個這個租金補貼回補之亂不然你以前怎麼不會發生對不對"},{"start":608.63,"end":622.516,"text":"過去其實也有啦不過我們會跟地方政府共同來處理加強教育訓練就是你們應該去想一想去檢討一下是不是還是只是去責成縣市政府縣市政府你們比較輕鬆但是我覺得反而會製造問題好不好好好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"17208","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17208","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685831044d4eb4d2098258b47ce3ecd0e3c0a219bd209750d2d5e58cef0e09cfff95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-19","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-19T08:38:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T13:43:00+08:00","duration":18300,"影片長度":"05:05:00","委員發言時間":"08:38:00 - 13:43:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1441.74659375,"end":1446.0497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1446.2690937500001,"end":1447.5684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1447.92284375,"end":1450.8253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1452.4622187500001,"end":1474.5684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1472.6447187500003,"end":1473.0328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1473.0328437500002,"end":1473.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1473.80909375,"end":1473.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1476.2222187500001,"end":1478.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1479.85034375,"end":1485.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1485.4359687500003,"end":1492.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1493.8565937500002,"end":1499.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1499.7459687500002,"end":1505.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1505.6522187500002,"end":1508.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1509.8540937500002,"end":1510.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1510.4615937500002,"end":1510.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1512.6722187500002,"end":1535.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1536.80346875,"end":1546.6078437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1546.9453437500001,"end":1550.7759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1551.26534375,"end":1563.0272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1563.0272187500002,"end":1563.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1565.05221875,"end":1567.1278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1567.46534375,"end":1571.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1571.4140937500001,"end":1575.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1575.8522187500002,"end":1577.0672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1577.28659375,"end":1581.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1581.35346875,"end":1584.8297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1585.7915937500002,"end":1594.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1594.2459687500002,"end":1596.3384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1597.84034375,"end":1598.7853437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1599.94971875,"end":1601.3165937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1601.8397187500002,"end":1602.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1602.7003437500002,"end":1605.1978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1605.85596875,"end":1606.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1610.3784687500001,"end":1624.6040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1624.82346875,"end":1694.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1695.85034375,"end":1697.8753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1698.1284687500001,"end":1700.9803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1701.4359687500003,"end":1703.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1704.9459687500002,"end":1706.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1706.2284687500003,"end":1706.7515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1707.10596875,"end":1707.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1708.08471875,"end":1713.3497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1715.0709687500002,"end":1715.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1716.9609687500001,"end":1718.9690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1722.54659375,"end":1726.2759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1727.2547187500002,"end":1730.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1731.3722187500002,"end":1731.7772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1732.4522187500002,"end":1734.0722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1735.0003437500002,"end":1735.4728437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1735.8778437500002,"end":1738.8309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1739.2697187500003,"end":1739.8097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1740.6703437500003,"end":1742.7459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1744.0453437500003,"end":1744.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1744.8890937500003,"end":1746.4415937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1748.4159687500003,"end":1750.8797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1751.82471875,"end":1752.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1752.95534375,"end":1755.6722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1758.5915937500001,"end":1761.6290937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1766.8940937500001,"end":1767.8222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1769.9315937500003,"end":1770.5728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1773.62721875,"end":1774.7915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1774.9772187500002,"end":1775.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1775.3315937500001,"end":1775.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1775.9728437500003,"end":1776.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1776.1078437500003,"end":1781.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1781.3728437500001,"end":1781.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1784.17409375,"end":1785.9122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1787.4140937500001,"end":1788.7134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1790.1140937500002,"end":1791.5315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1798.8384687500002,"end":1807.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1809.9759687500002,"end":1812.1865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1812.6759687500003,"end":1814.0259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1814.9034687500002,"end":1819.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1828.2515937500002,"end":1829.7872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1830.6815937500003,"end":1897.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1898.5190937500001,"end":1930.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1930.56471875,"end":1936.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1937.29784375,"end":1944.3009687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1946.7478437500001,"end":2012.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2012.6278437500002,"end":2034.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2035.03784375,"end":2037.9572187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2038.2947187500001,"end":2038.6828437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2039.3578437500003,"end":2041.6865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2043.2559687500002,"end":2046.0909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2052.4022187500004,"end":2092.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2092.27784375,"end":2177.8340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2177.96909375,"end":2190.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2190.9459687500002,"end":2211.4997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2212.63034375,"end":2213.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2214.4697187500005,"end":2214.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2216.2584687500002,"end":2226.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2226.7040937500005,"end":2231.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2231.7497187500003,"end":2236.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2237.7403437500006,"end":2282.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2282.34096875,"end":2296.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2296.4990937500006,"end":2296.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2297.96721875,"end":2302.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2308.68284375,"end":2311.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2311.5009687500005,"end":2312.8847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2313.1715937500003,"end":2313.7284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2315.1797187500006,"end":2412.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2413.1053437500004,"end":2421.2559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2421.62721875,"end":2429.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2430.1490937500002,"end":2446.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2446.45034375,"end":2452.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2453.1328437500006,"end":2454.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2456.64284375,"end":2458.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2460.01784375,"end":2481.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2486.49471875,"end":2487.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2488.51971875,"end":2489.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2493.3797187500004,"end":2514.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2493.54846875,"end":2494.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2515.18221875,"end":2580.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2580.20159375,"end":2639.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2629.7634687500004,"end":2629.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2629.84784375,"end":2629.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2639.87159375,"end":2709.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2640.41159375,"end":2640.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2709.97034375,"end":2725.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2723.03159375,"end":2723.2003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2723.4197187500004,"end":2732.0428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2729.49471875,"end":2736.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2733.83159375,"end":2734.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2734.7597187500005,"end":2829.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2773.42034375,"end":2773.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2773.58909375,"end":2773.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2773.60596875,"end":2773.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2773.65659375,"end":2773.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2773.6903437500005,"end":2774.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2829.7997187500005,"end":2831.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2831.8415937500004,"end":2849.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2849.2734687500006,"end":2884.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2849.4422187500004,"end":2850.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2852.96909375,"end":2854.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2885.16659375,"end":2909.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2909.9053437500006,"end":2937.1922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2932.7372187500005,"end":2932.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2935.9772187500002,"end":2984.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2943.50346875,"end":2944.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2984.0709687500002,"end":3018.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3001.6715937500003,"end":3002.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3014.3953437500004,"end":3015.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3016.79159375,"end":3066.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3065.77971875,"end":3069.7284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3069.9815937500007,"end":3071.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3072.9178437500004,"end":3076.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3074.7403437500006,"end":3083.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3080.9840937500003,"end":3130.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3084.93284375,"end":3086.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3086.5359687500004,"end":3086.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3104.54159375,"end":3104.6934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3129.5165937500005,"end":3136.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3135.15284375,"end":3167.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3158.23784375,"end":3159.6553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3167.73846875,"end":3200.7459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3196.5947187500005,"end":3196.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3198.4678437500006,"end":3216.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3215.9503437500007,"end":3216.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3216.4059687500003,"end":3217.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3216.92909375,"end":3240.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3237.48284375,"end":3252.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3248.0634687500005,"end":3250.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3251.5397187500002,"end":3264.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3264.73596875,"end":3273.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3273.08909375,"end":3287.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3284.37846875,"end":3293.2715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3291.73596875,"end":3294.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3294.9590937500006,"end":3295.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3297.7097187500003,"end":3299.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3305.0840937500006,"end":3308.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3309.7584687500002,"end":3310.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3314.5847187500003,"end":3383.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3383.68784375,"end":3436.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3396.6647187500002,"end":3397.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3397.0359687500004,"end":3398.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3399.3815937500003,"end":3399.3984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3399.3984687500006,"end":3399.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3436.23659375,"end":3446.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3438.3122187500003,"end":3440.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3444.31971875,"end":3445.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3446.37846875,"end":3459.8278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3449.61846875,"end":3450.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3456.90846875,"end":3457.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3459.8953437500004,"end":3481.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3481.8328437500004,"end":3569.9372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3569.97096875,"end":3571.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3571.67534375,"end":3608.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3608.73284375,"end":3618.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3618.62159375,"end":3628.8815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3618.6384687500004,"end":3618.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3618.97596875,"end":3619.1447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3629.28659375,"end":3639.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3639.9684687500003,"end":3648.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3648.3722187500007,"end":3691.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3690.8972187500003,"end":3706.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3705.29159375,"end":3712.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3708.2109687500006,"end":3708.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3710.03346875,"end":3710.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3712.04159375,"end":3716.8340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3716.6484687500006,"end":3719.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3718.5215937500006,"end":3721.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3720.8165937500007,"end":3724.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3722.47034375,"end":3722.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3724.25909375,"end":3752.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3753.5878437500005,"end":3821.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3821.6784687500003,"end":3833.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3833.94659375,"end":3849.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3845.1178437500002,"end":3845.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3849.80909375,"end":3874.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3855.2428437500002,"end":3855.6309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3874.75034375,"end":3881.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3881.2809687500003,"end":3893.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3887.2547187500004,"end":3887.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3890.7478437500004,"end":3891.1359687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3891.64221875,"end":3976.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3977.4853437500005,"end":3994.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3992.1159687500003,"end":3992.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3994.6472187500003,"end":3994.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3994.6472187500003,"end":3996.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3999.4734687500004,"end":4001.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4008.60284375,"end":4012.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4012.5515937500004,"end":4013.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4017.15846875,"end":4017.7322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4018.6434687500005,"end":4034.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4034.8603437500005,"end":4045.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4046.1328437500006,"end":4049.5753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4051.1278437500005,"end":4063.2440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4062.97409375,"end":4064.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4064.3915937500005,"end":4065.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4064.9822187500004,"end":4069.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4067.3447187500005,"end":4068.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4069.04909375,"end":4078.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4078.4990937500006,"end":4078.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4078.95471875,"end":4081.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4080.7265937500006,"end":4081.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4081.60409375,"end":4085.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4084.4728437500007,"end":4087.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4085.7215937500005,"end":4085.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4087.02096875,"end":4087.2909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4087.2909687500005,"end":4097.331593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4097.17971875,"end":4102.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4100.30159375,"end":4103.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4103.92971875,"end":4106.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4105.296593749999,"end":4107.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4107.05159375,"end":4117.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4116.33284375,"end":4120.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4120.484093749999,"end":4123.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4124.061593750001,"end":4125.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4125.58034375,"end":4127.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4126.55909375,"end":4129.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4128.29721875,"end":4128.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4129.815968749999,"end":4153.019093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4151.1122187500005,"end":4157.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4157.72721875,"end":4164.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4162.94159375,"end":4191.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4191.122843749999,"end":4195.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4195.13909375,"end":4195.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4195.9490937499995,"end":4201.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4200.5897187499995,"end":4202.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4202.243468750001,"end":4205.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4204.50471875,"end":4205.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4205.44971875,"end":4215.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4213.83659375,"end":4217.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4215.220343749999,"end":4216.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4216.958468750001,"end":4225.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4225.345343749999,"end":4225.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4225.682843750001,"end":4247.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4247.046593749999,"end":4248.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4248.075968749999,"end":4248.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4248.548468749999,"end":4269.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4270.04721875,"end":4284.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4284.07034375,"end":4286.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4285.57221875,"end":4293.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4292.474093750001,"end":4294.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4294.38096875,"end":4295.612843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4294.70159375,"end":4297.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4296.49034375,"end":4305.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4303.79721875,"end":4307.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4308.977843750001,"end":4335.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4314.833468750001,"end":4314.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4314.85034375,"end":4314.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4314.934718750001,"end":4314.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4314.968468749999,"end":4315.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4326.780968749999,"end":4327.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4335.842843750001,"end":4338.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4339.0322187500005,"end":4390.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4342.55909375,"end":4342.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4342.626593749999,"end":4342.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4367.16284375,"end":4367.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4367.21346875,"end":4367.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4367.6522187499995,"end":4367.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4390.062218749999,"end":4432.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4432.46909375,"end":4457.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4457.612843749999,"end":4462.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4462.0340937500005,"end":4498.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4501.116593750001,"end":4501.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4501.6903437500005,"end":4515.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4513.823468750001,"end":4513.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4513.857218749999,"end":4515.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4515.122843749999,"end":4533.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4516.74284375,"end":4516.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4516.75971875,"end":4517.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4523.560343749999,"end":4524.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4532.68971875,"end":4536.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4536.267218749999,"end":4538.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4536.72284375,"end":4538.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4538.376593749999,"end":4560.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4560.263468749999,"end":4573.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4572.936593750001,"end":4585.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4574.6747187500005,"end":4574.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4585.69409375,"end":4602.315968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4602.315968749999,"end":4613.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4613.385968750001,"end":4630.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4630.09221875,"end":4630.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4630.109093749999,"end":4633.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4632.690968749999,"end":4633.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4633.264718750001,"end":4633.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4633.28159375,"end":4647.642218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4647.692843750001,"end":4647.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4647.70971875,"end":4649.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4649.39721875,"end":4651.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4650.20721875,"end":4655.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4654.729718750001,"end":4656.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4656.9403437500005,"end":4659.690968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4659.43784375,"end":4670.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4661.749718749999,"end":4664.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4668.61784375,"end":4684.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4683.0965937500005,"end":4703.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4686.319718750001,"end":4686.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4703.093468749999,"end":4709.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4704.983468750001,"end":4705.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4708.03784375,"end":4708.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4708.1053437499995,"end":4708.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4708.29096875,"end":4711.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4710.501593749999,"end":4711.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4711.98659375,"end":4712.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4712.03721875,"end":4712.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4712.054093750001,"end":4712.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4712.40846875,"end":4713.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4715.564093749999,"end":4718.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4727.562218749999,"end":4730.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4731.274718750001,"end":4732.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4736.0165937500005,"end":4736.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4736.40471875,"end":4736.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4736.55659375,"end":4746.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4746.90096875,"end":4751.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4752.09846875,"end":4753.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4754.35971875,"end":4760.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4760.21534375,"end":4768.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4768.7372187500005,"end":4777.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4778.187218749999,"end":4801.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4800.327218750001,"end":4813.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4812.359093749999,"end":4815.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4815.2615937499995,"end":4835.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4822.0115937499995,"end":4822.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4822.5009687500005,"end":4822.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4823.49659375,"end":4823.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4823.513468749999,"end":4823.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4823.81721875,"end":4823.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4833.4697187500005,"end":4839.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4839.49409375,"end":4845.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4845.53534375,"end":4857.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4857.16221875,"end":4861.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4857.465968750001,"end":4857.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4861.17846875,"end":4888.296593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4873.817843750001,"end":4874.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4888.43159375,"end":4892.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4892.295968750001,"end":4920.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4920.645968750001,"end":4930.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4930.720343749999,"end":4933.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4933.79159375,"end":4947.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4943.376593749999,"end":4943.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4947.882218750001,"end":4954.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4952.87721875,"end":4957.720343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4956.94409375,"end":4981.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4971.67596875,"end":4974.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4974.932843750001,"end":4974.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4980.265343749999,"end":4980.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4980.315968750001,"end":4981.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4981.024718750001,"end":4981.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4981.04159375,"end":4981.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4981.075343750001,"end":4981.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4981.682843750001,"end":4982.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4982.40846875,"end":4984.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4984.534718750001,"end":4984.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4984.97346875,"end":4985.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4985.7665937500005,"end":4985.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4985.7665937500005,"end":5017.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4985.81721875,"end":4985.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4985.86784375,"end":4985.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5015.92221875,"end":5030.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5031.43034375,"end":5032.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5033.202218750001,"end":5033.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5033.30346875,"end":5035.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5034.06284375,"end":5034.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5034.9403437500005,"end":5083.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5035.109093749999,"end":5035.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5083.97909375,"end":5090.189093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5089.919093750001,"end":5102.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5101.7147187499995,"end":5106.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5106.96284375,"end":5107.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5107.350968750001,"end":5126.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5127.29721875,"end":5136.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5136.29159375,"end":5141.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5136.747218750001,"end":5137.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5141.06721875,"end":5146.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5143.37909375,"end":5143.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5144.374718749999,"end":5161.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5159.9334687499995,"end":5178.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5173.956593750001,"end":5173.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5173.99034375,"end":5174.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5178.90096875,"end":5186.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5185.870343750001,"end":5186.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5186.25846875,"end":5186.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5186.3934687500005,"end":5211.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5186.41034375,"end":5186.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5211.554093750001,"end":5249.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5248.915343750001,"end":5252.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5251.7840937500005,"end":5256.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5256.86346875,"end":5264.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5264.052218750001,"end":5264.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5264.08596875,"end":5264.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5264.372843749999,"end":5265.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5265.216593749999,"end":5286.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5284.589093750001,"end":5288.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5287.677218750001,"end":5291.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5289.38159375,"end":5349.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5293.36409375,"end":5294.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5294.35971875,"end":5294.376593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5347.904093749999,"end":5368.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5363.04096875,"end":5363.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5367.833468750001,"end":5375.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5373.452843749999,"end":5375.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5375.376593749999,"end":5378.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5378.83596875,"end":5379.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5379.29159375,"end":5379.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5379.966593749999,"end":5380.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5380.489718750001,"end":5381.282843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5381.55284375,"end":5383.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5382.835343750001,"end":5383.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5383.03784375,"end":5383.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5387.2059687500005,"end":5390.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5399.609093749999,"end":5403.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5404.78971875,"end":5406.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5406.07221875,"end":5406.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5409.413468750001,"end":5409.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5410.577843749999,"end":5437.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5437.5272187499995,"end":5437.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5438.185343749999,"end":5440.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5440.64909375,"end":5458.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5446.65659375,"end":5446.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5450.82471875,"end":5450.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5450.858468750001,"end":5451.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5451.19596875,"end":5451.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5453.423468749999,"end":5458.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5458.97534375,"end":5459.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5459.02596875,"end":5459.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5459.49846875,"end":5459.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5459.54909375,"end":5460.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5460.122843749999,"end":5496.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5460.7978437500005,"end":5461.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5495.25659375,"end":5497.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5498.49659375,"end":5499.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5499.9647187499995,"end":5500.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5500.0322187500005,"end":5532.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5501.17971875,"end":5501.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5504.87534375,"end":5505.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5533.05659375,"end":5541.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5541.409718750001,"end":5581.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5583.1415937500005,"end":5600.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5598.734093749999,"end":5599.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5601.33284375,"end":5601.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5601.67034375,"end":5602.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5602.581593750001,"end":5610.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5611.03596875,"end":5620.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5621.22846875,"end":5632.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5632.51784375,"end":5633.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5633.5809687500005,"end":5654.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5655.265343749999,"end":5658.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5659.349093750001,"end":5677.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5677.860968749999,"end":5701.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5701.722218750001,"end":5741.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5741.02409375,"end":5742.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5742.49221875,"end":5747.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5746.60971875,"end":5762.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5761.93221875,"end":5768.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5765.83034375,"end":5775.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5769.15471875,"end":5769.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5774.4872187500005,"end":5799.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5798.82096875,"end":5857.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5855.993468750001,"end":5907.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5907.24284375,"end":5917.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5913.4022187499995,"end":5913.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5916.4228437500005,"end":5921.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5918.39721875,"end":5919.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5920.067843750001,"end":5955.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5955.48846875,"end":5963.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5964.4490937499995,"end":5971.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5972.44784375,"end":6032.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6032.53971875,"end":6038.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6038.83409375,"end":6057.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6056.620343750001,"end":6072.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6067.74096875,"end":6069.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6070.626593750001,"end":6076.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6072.735968750001,"end":6073.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6076.2459687499995,"end":6091.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6091.75409375,"end":6110.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6111.042218750001,"end":6114.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6113.708468750001,"end":6121.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6121.352843750001,"end":6124.626593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6124.626593750001,"end":6133.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6134.0428437499995,"end":6145.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6143.83034375,"end":6146.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6146.479718750001,"end":6153.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6152.95971875,"end":6159.220343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6159.62534375,"end":6162.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6161.9540937500005,"end":6165.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6164.7215937500005,"end":6167.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6167.894093750001,"end":6170.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6169.64909375,"end":6172.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6171.94409375,"end":6179.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6177.52971875,"end":6180.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6180.4490937499995,"end":6185.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6184.7353437500005,"end":6187.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6187.46909375,"end":6191.890343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6190.89471875,"end":6192.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6192.548468750001,"end":6194.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6193.5272187499995,"end":6197.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6194.472218750001,"end":6194.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6196.17659375,"end":6196.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6196.19346875,"end":6196.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6197.83034375,"end":6198.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6199.28159375,"end":6201.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6202.251593750001,"end":6207.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6217.169093750001,"end":6219.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6222.788468750001,"end":6225.454718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6223.98659375,"end":6225.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6225.70784375,"end":6226.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6229.97721875,"end":6230.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6232.28909375,"end":6233.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6234.29721875,"end":6238.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6238.870343750001,"end":6242.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6243.34221875,"end":6247.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6248.92784375,"end":6251.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6251.50971875,"end":6252.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6252.842843750001,"end":6253.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6254.02409375,"end":6256.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6256.0322187500005,"end":6260.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6260.2509687500005,"end":6262.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6260.40284375,"end":6260.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6262.630343750001,"end":6262.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6262.84971875,"end":6266.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6262.917218750001,"end":6263.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6263.5584687499995,"end":6263.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6266.747843749999,"end":6275.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6266.78159375,"end":6267.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6276.501593750001,"end":6278.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6278.67846875,"end":6285.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6286.069718750001,"end":6291.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6291.975968750001,"end":6297.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6294.085343750001,"end":6294.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6295.064093750001,"end":6295.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6295.9247187500005,"end":6299.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6298.79346875,"end":6301.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6303.14721875,"end":6311.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6311.989718750001,"end":6316.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6316.545968750001,"end":6318.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6319.75221875,"end":6322.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6322.99221875,"end":6325.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6325.32096875,"end":6328.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6328.84784375,"end":6340.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6340.52534375,"end":6345.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6346.00971875,"end":6357.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6355.915343750001,"end":6356.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6357.29909375,"end":6378.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6378.24096875,"end":6398.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6398.524718750001,"end":6402.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6402.743468750001,"end":6409.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6409.45971875,"end":6410.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6410.87721875,"end":6411.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6410.91096875,"end":6411.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6411.48471875,"end":6446.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6446.061593750001,"end":6449.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6449.4872187500005,"end":6461.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6460.304093750001,"end":6461.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6462.16034375,"end":6465.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6465.14721875,"end":6467.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6468.43784375,"end":6470.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6470.749718749999,"end":6473.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6473.63534375,"end":6474.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6474.884093750001,"end":6483.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6484.215968750001,"end":6486.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6487.65846875,"end":6494.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6494.07096875,"end":6495.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6494.27346875,"end":6506.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6507.06471875,"end":6528.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6511.78971875,"end":6512.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6512.481593750001,"end":6512.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6529.862843750001,"end":6546.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6546.34971875,"end":6583.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6556.204718750001,"end":6557.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6583.87971875,"end":6594.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6594.510968750001,"end":6599.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6600.231593750001,"end":6600.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6600.33284375,"end":6600.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6600.61971875,"end":6604.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6603.53909375,"end":6606.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6604.821593750001,"end":6609.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6608.36534375,"end":6610.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6610.356593750001,"end":6610.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6610.37346875,"end":6610.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6610.66034375,"end":6615.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6614.54159375,"end":6614.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6615.75659375,"end":6619.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6617.528468750001,"end":6647.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6648.25784375,"end":6664.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6648.3084687499995,"end":6649.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6664.390343749999,"end":6666.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6666.95534375,"end":6673.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6673.435343749999,"end":6687.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6673.9247187500005,"end":6674.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6684.319718750001,"end":6685.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6686.41221875,"end":6693.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6691.74471875,"end":6692.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6693.685343749999,"end":6694.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6694.3603437500005,"end":6702.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6703.067843750001,"end":6706.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6706.66221875,"end":6707.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6707.64096875,"end":6707.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6707.708468750001,"end":6711.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6707.7928437499995,"end":6709.345343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6711.77534375,"end":6733.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6733.89846875,"end":6743.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6741.76221875,"end":6767.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6751.36409375,"end":6752.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6767.36159375,"end":6781.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6771.934718750001,"end":6772.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6778.43159375,"end":6778.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6778.583468750001,"end":6778.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6781.722218750001,"end":6785.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6783.983468750001,"end":6784.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6784.590968750001,"end":6786.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6786.53159375,"end":6793.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6794.429093750001,"end":6798.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6799.00221875,"end":6802.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6802.545968750001,"end":6803.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6803.609093749999,"end":6806.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6805.65096875,"end":6807.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6808.04721875,"end":6812.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6813.48096875,"end":6814.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6816.2147187499995,"end":6825.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6822.5428437499995,"end":6823.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6825.090968750001,"end":6839.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6838.84409375,"end":6841.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6841.56096875,"end":6849.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6842.522843750001,"end":6843.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6844.159718750001,"end":6844.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6850.065968750001,"end":6865.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6850.487843750001,"end":6851.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6865.27034375,"end":6878.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6878.58471875,"end":6881.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6880.79534375,"end":6894.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6894.075968749999,"end":6903.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6904.217843750001,"end":6914.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6909.837218750001,"end":6910.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6912.11534375,"end":6912.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6914.477843750001,"end":6914.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6914.528468750001,"end":6925.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6914.83221875,"end":6917.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6923.59034375,"end":6924.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6925.868468750001,"end":6926.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6933.76596875,"end":6935.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7804.347218750001,"end":7809.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7812.63284375,"end":7814.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7823.2303437499995,"end":7825.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7826.30159375,"end":7827.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7827.61784375,"end":7830.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7831.1278437500005,"end":7831.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7835.39721875,"end":7836.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7836.20721875,"end":7837.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7837.911593750001,"end":7839.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7839.919718749999,"end":7841.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7841.96159375,"end":7845.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7846.9228437500005,"end":7849.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7850.26409375,"end":7851.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7852.204718750001,"end":7856.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7857.25034375,"end":7861.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7861.907843750001,"end":7874.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7874.327843750001,"end":7876.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7877.1122187500005,"end":7878.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7878.02346875,"end":7894.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7889.12721875,"end":7889.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7894.22346875,"end":7896.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7896.6365937499995,"end":7897.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7898.847218750001,"end":7901.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7901.614718750001,"end":7947.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7947.71721875,"end":7966.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7967.30909375,"end":7981.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7981.0115937499995,"end":8001.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7986.15846875,"end":7986.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8001.092843750001,"end":8001.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8001.95346875,"end":8001.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8001.970343750001,"end":8002.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8002.74659375,"end":8007.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8007.57284375,"end":8020.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8020.7353437500005,"end":8022.220343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8023.064093750001,"end":8032.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8033.59409375,"end":8037.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8037.694718750001,"end":8038.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8038.015343750001,"end":8051.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8052.66284375,"end":8091.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8091.880343750001,"end":8104.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8104.030343750001,"end":8126.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8110.88159375,"end":8111.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8112.265343750001,"end":8112.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8112.29909375,"end":8112.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8112.82221875,"end":8112.923468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8125.47846875,"end":8125.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8126.49096875,"end":8129.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8131.75596875,"end":8133.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8133.747218750001,"end":8141.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8138.21909375,"end":8138.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8138.72534375,"end":8142.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8142.1678437499995,"end":8145.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8146.09971875,"end":8170.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8171.04096875,"end":8172.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8172.81284375,"end":8174.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8175.732218750001,"end":8180.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8180.91284375,"end":8185.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8186.380343750001,"end":8189.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8190.362843750001,"end":8195.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8196.42096875,"end":8203.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8203.761593750001,"end":8205.415343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8206.84971875,"end":8209.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8209.414718750002,"end":8216.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8216.02971875,"end":8237.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8218.071593749999,"end":8219.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8219.168468750002,"end":8219.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8219.45534375,"end":8220.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8235.58784375,"end":8237.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8237.42721875,"end":8237.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8237.950343750003,"end":8243.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8244.059093750002,"end":8244.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8244.07596875,"end":8256.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8246.219093750002,"end":8247.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8250.015968750002,"end":8250.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8250.04971875,"end":8250.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8250.47159375,"end":8250.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8250.50534375,"end":8250.555968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8252.47971875,"end":8252.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8253.89721875,"end":8254.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8256.32721875,"end":8256.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8258.53784375,"end":8258.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8258.875343750002,"end":8258.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8259.48284375,"end":8260.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8260.96784375,"end":8261.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8262.098468750002,"end":8290.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8278.04534375,"end":8278.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8282.16284375,"end":8282.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8285.284718750001,"end":8286.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8290.54971875,"end":8291.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8291.832218750002,"end":8293.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8293.53659375,"end":8300.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8300.337218750003,"end":8302.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8304.37034375,"end":8308.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8308.656593750002,"end":8311.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8311.829093750002,"end":8316.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8317.296593750001,"end":8323.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8324.114093750002,"end":8328.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8328.754718750002,"end":8328.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8328.77159375,"end":8328.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8328.78846875,"end":8328.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8328.906593750002,"end":8328.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8328.97409375,"end":8335.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8337.10784375,"end":8338.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8338.69409375,"end":8343.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8343.75659375,"end":8344.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8345.32596875,"end":8349.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8350.320968750002,"end":8352.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8352.54846875,"end":8360.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8361.10409375,"end":8362.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8362.977218750002,"end":8366.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8367.094718750002,"end":8375.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8375.34659375,"end":8379.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8378.82284375,"end":8381.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8381.269718750002,"end":8387.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8388.930968750003,"end":8393.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8394.567218750002,"end":8403.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8403.81471875,"end":8419.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8420.234093750001,"end":8424.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8424.63846875,"end":8429.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8429.97096875,"end":8442.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8436.265343750001,"end":8436.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8443.437218750001,"end":8444.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8445.597218750001,"end":8453.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8453.579093750002,"end":8462.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8462.742218750001,"end":8468.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8469.37409375,"end":8472.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8472.816593750002,"end":8476.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8476.782218750002,"end":8487.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8488.223468750002,"end":8489.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8489.894093750001,"end":8494.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8494.68659375,"end":8497.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8498.16284375,"end":8501.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8502.43221875,"end":8508.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8508.76034375,"end":8514.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8514.88596875,"end":8516.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8517.04596875,"end":8519.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8521.29846875,"end":8523.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8523.79596875,"end":8528.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8528.183468750001,"end":8530.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8528.250968750002,"end":8530.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8530.22534375,"end":8534.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8530.292843750001,"end":8530.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8534.24159375,"end":8542.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8537.363468750002,"end":8539.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8543.438468750002,"end":8545.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8546.15534375,"end":8546.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8546.290343750003,"end":8547.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8550.30659375,"end":8551.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8551.42034375,"end":8552.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8553.00659375,"end":8553.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8553.95159375,"end":8557.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8558.406593750002,"end":8562.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8563.53659375,"end":8568.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8565.780968750001,"end":8572.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8572.76721875,"end":8579.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8575.36596875,"end":8576.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8580.37784375,"end":8582.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8583.90471875,"end":8586.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8587.44846875,"end":8588.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8589.422843750002,"end":8592.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8593.01721875,"end":8593.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8593.23659375,"end":8593.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8593.253468750001,"end":8598.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8598.97409375,"end":8602.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8603.19284375,"end":8605.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8606.348468750002,"end":8617.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8618.363468750002,"end":8629.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8631.137843750003,"end":8632.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8632.825343750003,"end":8634.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8634.42846875,"end":8636.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8636.149718750003,"end":8639.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8638.05659375,"end":8649.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8642.410343750002,"end":8644.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8650.24034375,"end":8652.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8653.09221875,"end":8654.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8656.112843750001,"end":8657.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8658.69471875,"end":8659.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8659.74096875,"end":8661.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8661.968468750001,"end":8663.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8664.31409375,"end":8665.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8666.33909375,"end":8667.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8669.984093750001,"end":8671.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8672.65034375,"end":8678.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8678.03346875,"end":8691.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8692.309718750003,"end":8693.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8693.946593750003,"end":8696.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8696.899718750003,"end":8704.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8707.058468750001,"end":8707.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8709.62346875,"end":8710.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8711.074718750002,"end":8738.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8719.02284375,"end":8719.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8719.07346875,"end":8719.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8719.10721875,"end":8719.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8720.727218750002,"end":8721.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8721.030968750001,"end":8721.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8721.23346875,"end":8726.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8726.852843750003,"end":8726.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8726.937218750001,"end":8729.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8738.93534375,"end":8743.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8745.128468750001,"end":8753.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8754.19034375,"end":8754.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8755.91159375,"end":8757.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8757.88596875,"end":8759.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8759.23596875,"end":8759.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8759.860343750002,"end":8760.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8760.02909375,"end":8760.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8760.51846875,"end":8760.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8760.94034375,"end":8761.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8761.19346875,"end":8761.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8761.952843750001,"end":8762.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8762.020343750002,"end":8763.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8763.87659375,"end":8765.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8765.817218750002,"end":8769.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8774.17034375,"end":8774.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8774.204093750002,"end":8774.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8774.22096875,"end":8774.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8774.305343750002,"end":8774.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8775.95909375,"end":8776.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8778.38909375,"end":8779.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8779.08096875,"end":8779.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8779.418468750002,"end":8779.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8779.587218750003,"end":8814.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8814.99096875,"end":8816.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8816.796593750001,"end":8820.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8821.21784375,"end":8825.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8824.54221875,"end":8827.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8827.54596875,"end":8829.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8829.047843750002,"end":8837.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8832.945968750002,"end":8833.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8837.164718750002,"end":8849.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8844.04971875,"end":8845.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8845.028468750003,"end":8845.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8845.29846875,"end":8845.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8845.31534375,"end":8845.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8849.73659375,"end":8857.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8855.64284375,"end":8877.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8878.187843750002,"end":8884.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8884.70159375,"end":8887.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8886.726593750001,"end":8891.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8891.92409375,"end":8904.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8905.035968750002,"end":8916.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8907.16221875,"end":8908.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8915.582843750002,"end":8918.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8919.362843750001,"end":8923.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8924.03721875,"end":8925.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8925.539093750001,"end":8930.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8930.972843750002,"end":8937.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8938.17846875,"end":8942.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8943.004718750002,"end":8944.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8944.65846875,"end":8955.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8955.84659375,"end":8960.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8960.58846875,"end":8977.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8978.745968750001,"end":8992.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8993.76471875,"end":8996.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8996.211593750002,"end":9004.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8999.87346875,"end":9000.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9003.484718750002,"end":9005.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9005.99909375,"end":9007.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9006.35346875,"end":9015.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9012.95159375,"end":9013.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9015.989093750002,"end":9017.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9020.511593750001,"end":9021.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9022.01346875,"end":9024.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9025.18596875,"end":9032.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9032.914718750002,"end":9036.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9037.656593750002,"end":9042.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9043.512218750002,"end":9046.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9046.313468750002,"end":9047.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9048.54096875,"end":9062.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9063.57659375,"end":9072.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9073.11096875,"end":9076.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9077.160968750002,"end":9087.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9088.09596875,"end":9089.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9090.30659375,"end":9094.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9094.96409375,"end":9098.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9098.74409375,"end":9099.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9100.245968750001,"end":9103.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9104.633468750002,"end":9108.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9109.223468750002,"end":9112.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9112.429718750001,"end":9117.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9118.487843750001,"end":9124.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9126.31784375,"end":9127.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9127.887218750002,"end":9128.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9128.81534375,"end":9131.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9131.160968750002,"end":9131.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9131.954093750002,"end":9133.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9133.995968750001,"end":9137.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9134.19846875,"end":9136.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9136.797218750002,"end":9136.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9137.421593750001,"end":9137.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9137.52284375,"end":9137.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9137.742218750001,"end":9137.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9137.77596875,"end":9137.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9138.012218750002,"end":9148.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9148.812218750001,"end":9154.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9154.75221875,"end":9157.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9158.565968750001,"end":9160.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9161.586593750002,"end":9167.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9168.37034375,"end":9171.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9171.644093750001,"end":9183.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9183.355343750001,"end":9199.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9199.67346875,"end":9200.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9201.36096875,"end":9205.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9205.54596875,"end":9214.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9214.18596875,"end":9215.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9215.33346875,"end":9215.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9215.367218750001,"end":9223.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9215.45159375,"end":9215.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9215.97471875,"end":9216.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9216.008468750002,"end":9216.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9216.02534375,"end":9216.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9222.77534375,"end":9238.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9230.16659375,"end":9231.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9231.077843750001,"end":9231.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9231.11159375,"end":9231.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9238.671593750001,"end":9244.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9239.80221875,"end":9240.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9244.02096875,"end":9272.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9272.472218750001,"end":9274.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9275.273468750001,"end":9280.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9280.707218750002,"end":9285.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9286.039718750002,"end":9289.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9290.12346875,"end":9293.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9294.375968750002,"end":9298.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9296.72159375,"end":9301.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9299.421593750001,"end":9299.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9301.547843750002,"end":9302.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9302.121593750002,"end":9310.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9310.980968750002,"end":9311.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9311.75721875,"end":9312.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9312.398468750001,"end":9313.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9313.96784375,"end":9315.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9316.80284375,"end":9318.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9318.405968750001,"end":9319.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9320.07659375,"end":9320.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9321.004718750002,"end":9321.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9321.96659375,"end":9323.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9323.485343750002,"end":9324.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9324.61596875,"end":9325.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9325.83096875,"end":9329.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9329.25659375,"end":9334.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9333.05346875,"end":9337.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9337.57596875,"end":9341.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9338.554718750001,"end":9340.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9341.84534375,"end":9342.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9342.790343750003,"end":9346.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9345.304718750001,"end":9348.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9348.409718750001,"end":9356.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9352.965968750003,"end":9356.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9356.72909375,"end":9362.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9360.559718750003,"end":9366.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9366.33096875,"end":9367.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9366.567218750002,"end":9376.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9367.815968750001,"end":9368.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9371.12346875,"end":9371.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9371.81534375,"end":9371.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9377.28284375,"end":9378.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9378.39659375,"end":9378.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9378.734093750001,"end":9378.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9378.801593750002,"end":9378.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9378.88596875,"end":9378.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9378.97034375,"end":9381.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9379.206593750001,"end":9379.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9379.83096875,"end":9379.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9382.159718750001,"end":9383.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9383.745968750001,"end":9386.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9386.918468750002,"end":9391.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9399.81096875,"end":9401.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9403.33784375,"end":9412.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9404.316593750002,"end":9404.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9406.746593750002,"end":9407.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9409.007843750001,"end":9409.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9411.437843750002,"end":9412.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9413.665343750003,"end":9415.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9416.14596875,"end":9416.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9417.10784375,"end":9492.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9492.94409375,"end":9555.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9554.723468750002,"end":9666.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9666.21659375,"end":9697.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9667.58346875,"end":9667.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9698.22846875,"end":9701.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9701.70471875,"end":9702.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9702.56534375,"end":9703.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9704.168468750002,"end":9793.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9792.99846875,"end":9793.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9793.875968750002,"end":9798.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9797.723468750002,"end":9797.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9797.74034375,"end":9846.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9847.11659375,"end":9925.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9856.85346875,"end":9856.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9856.97159375,"end":9857.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9859.35096875,"end":9859.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9894.012218750002,"end":9894.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9925.46721875,"end":9933.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9933.449093750001,"end":9947.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9947.72534375,"end":10047.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10048.03034375,"end":10123.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10096.410968750002,"end":10096.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10108.51034375,"end":10109.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10109.117843750002,"end":10110.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10112.89784375,"end":10113.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10116.20534375,"end":10116.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10126.54971875,"end":10252.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10155.38909375,"end":10155.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10155.524093750002,"end":10155.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10155.54096875,"end":10155.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10252.808468750001,"end":10336.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10336.862843750001,"end":10378.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10378.83096875,"end":10434.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10434.34971875,"end":10439.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10437.235343750002,"end":10437.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10438.602218750002,"end":10440.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10443.41159375,"end":10443.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10444.761593750001,"end":10448.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10452.743468750003,"end":10455.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10455.51096875,"end":10456.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10456.422218750002,"end":10459.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10459.915343750003,"end":10461.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10461.585968750001,"end":10465.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10465.872218750003,"end":10477.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10477.85346875,"end":10497.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10497.41159375,"end":10497.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10497.968468750001,"end":10498.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10498.37346875,"end":10551.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10501.562843750002,"end":10501.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10551.816593750002,"end":10561.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10561.82346875,"end":10572.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10573.011593750001,"end":10573.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10573.66971875,"end":10582.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10574.175968750002,"end":10575.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10575.05346875,"end":10575.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10581.73596875,"end":10583.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10583.609093750001,"end":10586.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10586.140343750001,"end":10617.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10617.375968750002,"end":10619.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10620.81846875,"end":10631.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10631.399093750002,"end":10631.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10632.090968750003,"end":10632.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10632.715343750002,"end":10660.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10660.727843750003,"end":10686.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10670.009093750003,"end":10670.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10687.390343750001,"end":10698.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10698.747218750003,"end":10699.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10699.169093750003,"end":10762.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10700.215343750002,"end":10700.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10715.21721875,"end":10715.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10762.78784375,"end":10805.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10805.734718750002,"end":10809.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10810.155968750001,"end":10811.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10811.94471875,"end":10822.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10823.031593750002,"end":10845.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10846.26846875,"end":10880.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10880.81159375,"end":10889.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10890.109718750002,"end":10893.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10891.054718750001,"end":10891.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10892.792843750001,"end":10893.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10893.99096875,"end":10896.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10897.41659375,"end":10916.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10914.86534375,"end":10920.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10918.34159375,"end":10918.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10918.746593750002,"end":10918.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10919.489093750002,"end":10919.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10919.50596875,"end":10919.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10919.97846875,"end":10922.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10921.26096875,"end":10944.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10943.012843750003,"end":10949.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10947.46784375,"end":10950.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10949.83034375,"end":10950.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10950.657218750002,"end":10983.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10983.79971875,"end":10990.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10990.49909375,"end":10992.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10992.726593750001,"end":10996.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10997.384093750003,"end":10999.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10999.72971875,"end":11007.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11007.74534375,"end":11009.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11007.964718750001,"end":11008.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11009.280968750001,"end":11037.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11037.968468750001,"end":11039.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11040.246593750002,"end":11043.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11043.891593750002,"end":11044.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11044.85346875,"end":11064.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11065.035968750002,"end":11087.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11087.294093750003,"end":11104.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11104.81034375,"end":11120.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11121.145343750002,"end":11134.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11134.898468750001,"end":11158.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11134.999718750001,"end":11135.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11136.315968750001,"end":11136.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11158.77659375,"end":11159.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11158.87784375,"end":11162.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11162.57346875,"end":11173.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11173.440968750001,"end":11242.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11242.965968750003,"end":11254.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11246.94846875,"end":11248.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11255.16659375,"end":11257.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11257.74846875,"end":11260.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11261.832218750002,"end":11287.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11275.93971875,"end":11276.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11276.024093750002,"end":11276.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11276.26034375,"end":11276.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11284.84971875,"end":11285.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11286.26721875,"end":11311.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11309.21721875,"end":11309.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11311.42784375,"end":11341.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11342.32596875,"end":11346.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11342.59596875,"end":11343.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11346.308468750001,"end":11348.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11346.899093750002,"end":11347.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11347.995968750001,"end":11359.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11359.42034375,"end":11364.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11359.707218750002,"end":11360.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11364.128468750001,"end":11378.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11378.387843750003,"end":11392.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11393.237843750001,"end":11393.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11393.676593750002,"end":11394.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11395.06034375,"end":11395.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11395.414718750002,"end":11410.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11410.349093750003,"end":11410.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11411.10846875,"end":11415.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11412.070343750001,"end":11412.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11413.25159375,"end":11413.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11414.16284375,"end":11421.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11421.891593750002,"end":11423.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11422.02659375,"end":11422.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11422.684718750003,"end":11426.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11426.07659375,"end":11428.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11426.532218750002,"end":11429.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11429.468468750001,"end":11435.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11435.77971875,"end":11435.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11435.83034375,"end":11436.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11435.89784375,"end":11450.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11450.528468750003,"end":11450.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11450.71409375,"end":11450.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11450.74784375,"end":11451.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11451.50721875,"end":11451.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11451.54096875,"end":11451.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11451.91221875,"end":11455.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11452.92471875,"end":11453.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11455.067843750003,"end":11461.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11459.55659375,"end":11459.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11459.60721875,"end":11460.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11460.855968750002,"end":11461.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11461.395968750003,"end":11461.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11461.480343750001,"end":11461.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11466.289718750002,"end":11469.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11472.972218750001,"end":11473.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11475.60471875,"end":11479.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11480.042843750001,"end":11481.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11481.51096875,"end":11485.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11483.114093750002,"end":11483.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11485.78034375,"end":11487.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11485.965968750003,"end":11486.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11488.93596875,"end":11490.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11492.56409375,"end":11493.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11494.454093750002,"end":11495.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11498.622218750003,"end":11499.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11501.42346875,"end":11507.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11508.325343750003,"end":11523.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11523.985343750002,"end":11547.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11547.660968750002,"end":11597.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11598.555968750003,"end":11604.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11605.15409375,"end":11605.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11606.85846875,"end":11607.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11608.12409375,"end":11609.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11610.452843750001,"end":11622.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11623.429718750001,"end":11631.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11631.69846875,"end":11632.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11633.68971875,"end":11644.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11643.578468750002,"end":11644.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11644.40534375,"end":11645.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11644.472843750002,"end":11646.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11645.77221875,"end":11646.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11646.210968750001,"end":11648.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11649.34971875,"end":11657.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11657.399093750002,"end":11670.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11671.55721875,"end":11679.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11680.31534375,"end":11683.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11684.11221875,"end":11693.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11684.179718750001,"end":11684.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11693.309093750002,"end":11707.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11704.68284375,"end":11705.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11707.36596875,"end":11711.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11712.58034375,"end":11718.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11718.672218750002,"end":11721.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11721.33846875,"end":11748.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11721.372218750003,"end":11721.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11721.625343750002,"end":11722.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11725.50659375,"end":11725.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11747.64659375,"end":11754.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11749.13159375,"end":11750.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11755.425968750002,"end":11799.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11799.840968750003,"end":11805.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11805.13971875,"end":11809.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11810.08409375,"end":11815.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11816.918468750002,"end":11821.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11822.571593750003,"end":11822.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11823.60096875,"end":11830.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11831.835968750001,"end":11837.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11838.180968750003,"end":11852.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11852.38971875,"end":11904.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11904.38159375,"end":11931.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11931.16221875,"end":11931.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11932.259093750003,"end":11936.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11936.309093750002,"end":11960.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11961.047843750002,"end":11970.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11970.91971875,"end":11981.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11981.669093750003,"end":11983.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11983.980968750002,"end":11985.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11986.47846875,"end":11988.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11988.790343750003,"end":11995.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11995.641593750002,"end":12019.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12020.042843750001,"end":12023.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12024.362843750001,"end":12031.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12032.445968750002,"end":12063.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12064.20471875,"end":12119.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12078.76784375,"end":12079.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12120.17909375,"end":12122.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12122.355968750002,"end":12126.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12127.047218750002,"end":12131.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12132.329093750002,"end":12146.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12137.695343750001,"end":12138.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12146.571593750003,"end":12149.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12149.879093750002,"end":12176.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12176.204093750002,"end":12213.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12178.262843750003,"end":12178.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12182.54909375,"end":12183.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12214.054718750001,"end":12232.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12232.02659375,"end":12232.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12232.85346875,"end":12236.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12244.395968750003,"end":12247.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12247.956593750001,"end":12249.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12255.22971875,"end":12255.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12255.364718750003,"end":12255.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12256.15784375,"end":12267.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12267.97034375,"end":12269.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12270.19784375,"end":12284.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12284.406593750002,"end":12288.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12288.97971875,"end":12294.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12295.18971875,"end":12296.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12296.640968750002,"end":12330.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12329.614718750003,"end":12330.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12330.77909375,"end":12333.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12331.656593750002,"end":12334.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12334.00221875,"end":12334.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12334.407218750002,"end":12343.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12343.03034375,"end":12363.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12364.47846875,"end":12371.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12370.671593750001,"end":12376.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12372.86534375,"end":12373.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12376.797218750002,"end":12383.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12385.26846875,"end":12388.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12388.59284375,"end":12391.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12391.309718750003,"end":12393.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12393.840968750003,"end":12395.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12395.59596875,"end":12397.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12397.840343750002,"end":12400.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12401.265968750002,"end":12405.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12405.585968750001,"end":12430.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12428.384093750003,"end":12430.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12430.25721875,"end":12430.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12430.34159375,"end":12430.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12430.493468750003,"end":12430.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12430.594718750002,"end":12430.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12430.66221875,"end":12430.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12430.695968750002,"end":12430.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12430.965968750003,"end":12431.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12431.961593750002,"end":12431.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12431.97846875,"end":12459.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12459.535343750002,"end":12467.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12467.753468750001,"end":12485.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12476.899718750003,"end":12477.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12486.67034375,"end":12489.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12488.94846875,"end":12494.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12493.977218750002,"end":12494.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12494.26409375,"end":12499.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12499.360343750002,"end":12501.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12501.95909375,"end":12505.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12505.739093750002,"end":12506.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12507.257843750001,"end":12512.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12512.421593750001,"end":12521.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12521.73659375,"end":12540.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12541.26096875,"end":12557.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12555.503468750001,"end":12556.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12557.427218750003,"end":12559.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12559.97534375,"end":12570.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12569.56034375,"end":12576.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12576.32721875,"end":12576.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12576.95159375,"end":12576.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12576.968468750001,"end":12585.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12585.60846875,"end":12589.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12589.641593750002,"end":12598.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12599.56409375,"end":12600.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12600.67784375,"end":12605.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12605.672843750002,"end":12605.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12605.976593750001,"end":12609.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12609.874718750001,"end":12612.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12612.54096875,"end":12618.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12619.105343750001,"end":12620.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12620.337218750003,"end":12623.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12624.134093750003,"end":12630.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12630.78284375,"end":12653.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12652.56846875,"end":12661.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12661.832843750002,"end":12664.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12664.465343750002,"end":12664.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12664.97159375,"end":12677.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12677.25659375,"end":12692.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12692.984093750001,"end":12696.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12696.831593750001,"end":12698.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12699.210968750001,"end":12707.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12707.378468750001,"end":12730.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12729.24846875,"end":12732.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12732.336593750002,"end":12740.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12740.38596875,"end":12757.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12757.98659375,"end":12758.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12758.644718750002,"end":12763.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12763.859093750001,"end":12778.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12777.645968750003,"end":12784.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12781.34159375,"end":12781.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12784.46346875,"end":12784.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12784.480343750001,"end":12785.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12785.05409375,"end":12785.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12785.08784375,"end":12785.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12785.77971875,"end":12805.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12804.76409375,"end":12816.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12817.386593750001,"end":12818.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12818.669093750003,"end":12825.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12826.296593750001,"end":12850.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12849.719093750002,"end":12863.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12864.282218750002,"end":12878.001593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12878.305343750002,"end":12879.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12880.54971875,"end":12882.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12882.254093750002,"end":12894.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12894.589718750001,"end":12896.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12896.93534375,"end":12898.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12899.331593750001,"end":12900.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12902.33534375,"end":12905.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12906.570968750002,"end":12911.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12911.785343750002,"end":12915.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12915.91971875,"end":12923.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12923.547218750002,"end":12926.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12927.141593750002,"end":12943.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12944.45534375,"end":12945.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12946.007843750001,"end":12950.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12950.125343750002,"end":12953.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12954.597218750001,"end":12961.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12962.680343750002,"end":12968.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12969.09284375,"end":12971.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12969.56534375,"end":12969.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12970.18971875,"end":12970.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12971.438468750002,"end":12972.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12972.180968750003,"end":12975.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12974.644718750002,"end":12980.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12979.656593750002,"end":12980.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12981.31034375,"end":12984.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12985.140968750002,"end":12986.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12987.098468750002,"end":12991.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12991.35096875,"end":12997.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12998.67471875,"end":13005.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13004.142218750003,"end":13004.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13004.15909375,"end":13004.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13005.441593750002,"end":13006.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13006.487843750001,"end":13009.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13009.96409375,"end":13025.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13024.746593750002,"end":13032.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13032.660968750002,"end":13043.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13043.039093750001,"end":13048.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13043.106593750003,"end":13043.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13043.34284375,"end":13043.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13046.430968750003,"end":13049.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13049.687843750002,"end":13054.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13051.577843750001,"end":13051.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13055.35784375,"end":13057.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13057.332218750002,"end":13064.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13064.048468750003,"end":13079.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13071.91221875,"end":13072.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13079.961593750002,"end":13081.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13081.395968750003,"end":13093.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13093.32659375,"end":13097.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13097.460968750001,"end":13111.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13108.969718750002,"end":13109.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13113.30659375,"end":13115.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13116.74909375,"end":13122.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13127.34659375,"end":13128.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13129.18596875,"end":13129.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13134.77159375,"end":13138.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13139.36159375,"end":13139.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13140.239093750002,"end":13176.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13143.27659375,"end":13143.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13176.739718750003,"end":13196.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13196.21346875,"end":13244.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13222.84221875,"end":13223.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13244.965343750002,"end":13261.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13259.64659375,"end":13296.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13296.974093750003,"end":13318.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13319.08034375,"end":13339.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13339.735343750002,"end":13378.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13339.75221875,"end":13341.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13378.51409375,"end":13397.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13381.41659375,"end":13382.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13397.19471875,"end":13459.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13412.972843750002,"end":13413.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13421.02221875,"end":13422.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13459.969718750002,"end":13460.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13460.03721875,"end":13461.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13461.04971875,"end":13461.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13461.960968750001,"end":13461.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13461.977843750003,"end":13462.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13462.011593750001,"end":13462.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13462.028468750003,"end":13462.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13462.433468750001,"end":13462.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13462.78784375,"end":13466.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13462.872218750003,"end":13463.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13466.16284375,"end":13481.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13466.247218750003,"end":13466.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13482.41346875,"end":13487.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13486.969718750002,"end":13487.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13488.184718750003,"end":13490.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13488.589718750001,"end":13489.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13489.028468750003,"end":13489.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13489.09596875,"end":13489.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13489.720343750003,"end":13489.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13489.770968750003,"end":13490.142218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13491.660968750002,"end":13496.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13496.80784375,"end":13499.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13499.17034375,"end":13504.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13504.266593750002,"end":13518.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13517.715968750003,"end":13518.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13518.542843750001,"end":13590.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13590.852218750002,"end":13592.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13592.016593750002,"end":13595.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13595.62784375,"end":13618.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13617.86909375,"end":13624.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13622.20596875,"end":13622.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13624.129718750002,"end":13648.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13648.497218750003,"end":13653.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13648.800968750002,"end":13648.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13653.829718750003,"end":13660.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13660.96784375,"end":13687.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13662.081593750001,"end":13662.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13687.44471875,"end":13696.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13693.469093750002,"end":13693.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13695.173468750003,"end":13697.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13697.77221875,"end":13697.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13697.97471875,"end":13698.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13698.531593750002,"end":13699.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13700.03346875,"end":13707.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13708.065968750001,"end":13724.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13724.856593750003,"end":13742.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13742.59221875,"end":13751.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13752.02534375,"end":13754.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13754.57346875,"end":13758.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13757.35784375,"end":13757.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13758.77534375,"end":13765.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13764.69846875,"end":13780.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13781.320343750001,"end":13796.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13796.96346875,"end":13797.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13797.030968750001,"end":13797.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13797.60471875,"end":13797.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13797.63846875,"end":13798.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13798.414718750002,"end":13798.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13798.465343750002,"end":13810.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13802.70096875,"end":13802.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13802.785343750002,"end":13802.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13802.886593750001,"end":13803.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13810.88534375,"end":13825.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13818.37784375,"end":13818.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13825.836593750002,"end":13827.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13827.321593750003,"end":13830.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13831.03409375,"end":13854.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13854.54096875,"end":13854.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13854.675968750002,"end":13861.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13861.594718750002,"end":13865.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13866.52221875,"end":13915.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13915.56096875,"end":13928.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13928.200343750003,"end":13934.798468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13934.798468750003,"end":13934.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13935.13596875,"end":13935.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13935.152843750002,"end":13936.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13936.789718750002,"end":13950.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13947.77534375,"end":13948.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13949.024093750002,"end":13957.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13957.96784375,"end":13958.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13958.524718750003,"end":13966.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13960.44846875,"end":13960.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13966.55721875,"end":13969.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13968.09284375,"end":13968.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13969.695968750002,"end":13970.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13972.328468750002,"end":13974.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13981.10346875,"end":13982.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13983.22971875,"end":13983.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13988.81534375,"end":13988.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13988.96721875,"end":13989.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13989.034718750001,"end":14003.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14003.867843750002,"end":14025.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14025.332843750002,"end":14031.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14031.340343750002,"end":14031.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14031.35721875,"end":14031.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14031.660968750002,"end":14031.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14031.964718750001,"end":14039.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14038.49534375,"end":14038.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14039.59221875,"end":14039.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14039.609093750001,"end":14039.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14039.64284375,"end":14039.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14039.79471875,"end":14039.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14040.300968750002,"end":14089.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14045.17784375,"end":14045.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14046.19034375,"end":14046.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14050.442843750003,"end":14050.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14057.766593750002,"end":14057.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14066.997218750003,"end":14067.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14067.18284375,"end":14067.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14083.855343750001,"end":14084.142218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14090.132843750001,"end":14128.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14129.56971875,"end":14153.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14134.075343750003,"end":14134.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14134.125968750002,"end":14134.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14139.964718750001,"end":14140.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14143.710968750001,"end":14144.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14152.097843750002,"end":14156.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14157.56534375,"end":14182.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14183.805968750003,"end":14183.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14184.109718750002,"end":14207.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14193.981593750003,"end":14194.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14194.032218750002,"end":14194.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14199.01034375,"end":14199.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14199.044093750003,"end":14199.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14201.33909375,"end":14201.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14207.954093750002,"end":14229.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14212.915343750003,"end":14212.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14212.93221875,"end":14212.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14212.949093750001,"end":14213.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14215.56471875,"end":14215.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14220.67784375,"end":14220.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14220.69471875,"end":14220.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14221.015343750001,"end":14221.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14228.79471875,"end":14229.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14230.110968750003,"end":14232.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14232.59159375,"end":14244.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14237.940968750001,"end":14238.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14243.93159375,"end":14244.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14244.809093750002,"end":14245.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14245.09596875,"end":14254.579718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14251.390343750001,"end":14251.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14254.32659375,"end":14273.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14256.90846875,"end":14258.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14274.00284375,"end":14290.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14290.945343750001,"end":14319.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14296.379093750002,"end":14298.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14298.35346875,"end":14298.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14300.26034375,"end":14300.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14304.73221875,"end":14305.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14306.90909375,"end":14307.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14310.570968750002,"end":14310.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14310.58784375,"end":14311.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14319.801593750002,"end":14319.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14319.81846875,"end":14352.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14327.226593750001,"end":14327.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14327.277218750001,"end":14328.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14328.981593750003,"end":14329.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14329.032218750002,"end":14330.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14353.484093750001,"end":14402.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14402.97846875,"end":14464.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14411.06159375,"end":14411.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14412.985343750002,"end":14413.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14427.126593750003,"end":14427.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14435.05784375,"end":14435.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14436.137843750003,"end":14436.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14438.280968750001,"end":14438.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14441.824718750002,"end":14441.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14441.85846875,"end":14441.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14441.976593750001,"end":14442.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14452.28721875,"end":14452.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14453.097218750001,"end":14453.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14455.13909375,"end":14455.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14456.168468750002,"end":14456.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14457.687218750001,"end":14457.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14457.72096875,"end":14458.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14459.442218750002,"end":14459.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14459.47596875,"end":14459.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14464.774718750003,"end":14487.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14464.79159375,"end":14465.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14487.960968750001,"end":14537.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14492.129093750002,"end":14492.517218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14503.92471875,"end":14504.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14504.29596875,"end":14504.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14504.481593750003,"end":14504.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14506.118468750003,"end":14506.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14524.343468750001,"end":14524.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14531.093468750001,"end":14531.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14537.08409375,"end":14576.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14571.27284375,"end":14571.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14575.980968750002,"end":14595.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14583.97971875,"end":14584.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14584.38471875,"end":14584.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14588.687843750002,"end":14589.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14591.50596875,"end":14592.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14594.864093750002,"end":14616.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14597.294093750003,"end":14597.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14603.53784375,"end":14604.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14607.351593750001,"end":14607.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14611.367843750002,"end":14611.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14616.61596875,"end":14658.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14621.35784375,"end":14621.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14621.391593750002,"end":14621.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14621.50971875,"end":14622.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14629.710968750001,"end":14629.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14629.99784375,"end":14630.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14647.93596875,"end":14648.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14648.10471875,"end":14648.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14648.20596875,"end":14648.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14658.01034375,"end":14659.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14659.54596875,"end":14687.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14665.047218750002,"end":14665.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14667.49409375,"end":14667.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14671.105343750001,"end":14671.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14671.847843750002,"end":14672.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14677.129718750002,"end":14677.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14677.450343750003,"end":14677.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14682.360968750003,"end":14682.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14685.70221875,"end":14707.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14707.69034375,"end":14708.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14707.859093750001,"end":14708.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14710.49159375,"end":14720.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14722.962218750003,"end":14723.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14724.632843750001,"end":14728.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14729.340968750003,"end":14730.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14730.876593750003,"end":14731.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14732.10846875,"end":14739.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14734.69034375,"end":14734.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14734.926593750002,"end":14735.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14735.31471875,"end":14735.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14739.719093750002,"end":14741.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14741.507843750001,"end":14744.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14742.402218750001,"end":14742.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14744.12346875,"end":14749.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14747.97096875,"end":14748.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14749.320968750002,"end":14749.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14750.08034375,"end":14750.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14753.60721875,"end":14754.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14757.555968750003,"end":14803.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14803.439093750003,"end":14804.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14805.160343750002,"end":14806.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14808.552218750003,"end":14828.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14828.684093750002,"end":14843.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14837.88096875,"end":14837.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14842.184093750002,"end":14842.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14843.449718750002,"end":14851.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14851.718468750001,"end":14852.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14851.75221875,"end":14851.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14853.355343750001,"end":14854.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14854.85721875,"end":14866.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14867.749718750001,"end":14876.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14876.659718750001,"end":14887.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14886.76784375,"end":14889.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14889.315968750001,"end":14889.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14890.649093750002,"end":14896.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14896.26846875,"end":14899.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14900.402843750002,"end":14903.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14904.942218750002,"end":14913.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14904.992843750002,"end":14905.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14914.29096875,"end":14925.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14924.652218750001,"end":14925.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14925.715343750002,"end":14943.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14943.855968750002,"end":14946.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14947.21409375,"end":14947.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14948.04096875,"end":14950.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14951.669093750003,"end":14952.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14952.884093750003,"end":14953.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14952.95159375,"end":14952.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14953.49159375,"end":14955.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14955.85409375,"end":14956.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14957.575343750003,"end":14961.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14963.582843750002,"end":14965.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14965.894718750002,"end":14970.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14969.640968750002,"end":14982.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14982.735968750003,"end":14983.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14982.786593750003,"end":14982.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14982.972218750001,"end":14983.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14983.512218750002,"end":14986.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14987.12346875,"end":14994.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14992.050968750002,"end":14997.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14998.294718750003,"end":15000.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15000.47159375,"end":15003.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15003.32346875,"end":15007.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15003.94784375,"end":15005.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15007.94721875,"end":15008.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15008.655968750001,"end":15009.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15009.43221875,"end":15028.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15028.382843750001,"end":15031.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15032.517218750003,"end":15040.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15041.17409375,"end":15065.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15065.828468750002,"end":15077.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15078.14721875,"end":15092.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15092.96346875,"end":15101.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15102.14346875,"end":15103.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15103.915343750003,"end":15108.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15108.539093750001,"end":15114.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15115.356593750003,"end":15135.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15130.88159375,"end":15132.923468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15135.977843750003,"end":15139.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15139.94346875,"end":15145.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15146.558468750001,"end":15147.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15147.824093750001,"end":15169.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15169.930343750002,"end":15175.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15175.735343750002,"end":15175.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15175.904093750003,"end":15212.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15212.03346875,"end":15226.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15227.11971875,"end":15228.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15228.992843750002,"end":15248.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15249.074093750001,"end":15263.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15264.278468750003,"end":15297.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15296.222843750002,"end":15303.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15304.609718750002,"end":15328.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15327.00284375,"end":15329.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15330.47909375,"end":15334.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15335.22096875,"end":15342.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15342.426593750002,"end":15346.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15346.999718750001,"end":15348.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15348.77159375,"end":15354.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15354.964718750001,"end":15356.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15356.53409375,"end":15379.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15360.90471875,"end":15361.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15379.298468750003,"end":15387.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15387.43221875,"end":15398.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15399.04221875,"end":15426.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15426.98721875,"end":15460.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15460.855343750001,"end":15483.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15484.26096875,"end":15484.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15485.189093750003,"end":15497.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15497.625968750002,"end":15503.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15505.101593750001,"end":15506.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15507.329093750002,"end":15554.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15510.09659375,"end":15510.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15511.952843750001,"end":15512.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15554.933468750001,"end":15571.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15571.774718750003,"end":15576.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15576.685343750003,"end":15578.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15579.11534375,"end":15584.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15584.515343750001,"end":15591.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15591.923468750003,"end":15622.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15622.230968750002,"end":15624.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15625.285343750002,"end":15625.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15626.145968750003,"end":15628.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15628.74471875,"end":15658.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15658.984718750002,"end":15660.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15660.97596875,"end":15664.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15664.87409375,"end":15676.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15676.68659375,"end":15676.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15676.703468750002,"end":15677.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15677.496593750002,"end":15688.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15688.85346875,"end":15691.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15691.60409375,"end":15692.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15692.734718750002,"end":15719.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15720.224093750003,"end":15726.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15726.872843750003,"end":15739.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15740.676593750002,"end":15745.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15746.110343750002,"end":15775.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15775.810343750003,"end":15778.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15778.999718750001,"end":15792.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15792.617843750002,"end":15795.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15796.39784375,"end":15800.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15800.81909375,"end":15805.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15805.645343750002,"end":15809.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15809.965343750002,"end":15813.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15813.30659375,"end":15818.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15818.58846875,"end":15818.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15818.672843750002,"end":15818.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15818.723468750002,"end":15818.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15818.74034375,"end":15818.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15818.925968750002,"end":15819.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15824.309093750002,"end":15825.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15825.96284375,"end":15826.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15827.44784375,"end":15828.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15828.949718750002,"end":15831.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15832.020968750003,"end":15835.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15835.328468750002,"end":15846.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15847.579718750003,"end":15849.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15850.38096875,"end":15859.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15859.763468750003,"end":15863.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15863.695343750001,"end":15866.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15866.226593750001,"end":15867.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15868.909718750001,"end":15871.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15872.21721875,"end":15872.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15873.314093750003,"end":15873.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15874.309718750003,"end":15875.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15876.317843750003,"end":15878.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15878.730968750002,"end":15879.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15879.996593750002,"end":15885.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15886.965968750003,"end":15890.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15890.57721875,"end":15891.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15890.661593750003,"end":15890.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15890.88096875,"end":15890.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15891.066593750002,"end":15891.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15893.766593750002,"end":15900.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15900.85409375,"end":15906.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15906.55784375,"end":15906.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15906.574718750002,"end":15906.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15907.064093750003,"end":15915.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15915.687218750001,"end":15928.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15930.149093750002,"end":15932.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15932.410343750002,"end":15962.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15962.481593750003,"end":15972.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15972.927218750003,"end":15975.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15975.964718750001,"end":15976.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15976.302218750003,"end":16013.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16013.86596875,"end":16056.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16057.09971875,"end":16064.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16065.149093750002,"end":16087.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16090.37721875,"end":16105.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16106.020343750002,"end":16112.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16112.90534375,"end":16135.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16135.56846875,"end":16138.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16138.74096875,"end":16151.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16151.515343750001,"end":16155.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16156.61159375,"end":16166.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16166.83784375,"end":16199.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16200.65534375,"end":16233.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16236.075968750003,"end":16251.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16255.887218750002,"end":16306.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16307.96346875,"end":16348.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16349.020343750002,"end":16365.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16368.409718750001,"end":16376.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16376.442218750002,"end":16385.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16386.567218750002,"end":16409.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16410.647843749997,"end":16421.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16424.114093750002,"end":16426.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16428.61971875,"end":16429.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16429.699718750002,"end":16445.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16452.109718749998,"end":16453.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16459.61909375,"end":16460.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16550.997218750003,"end":16560.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16570.420343750004,"end":16572.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16572.78284375,"end":16573.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16574.48721875,"end":16576.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16577.45721875,"end":16580.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16580.747843750003,"end":16585.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16586.535968750002,"end":16588.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16590.28221875,"end":16590.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16590.73784375,"end":16620.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16621.703468749998,"end":16628.537843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16628.67284375,"end":16647.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16647.91034375,"end":16671.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16671.349718750003,"end":16679.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16680.293468750002,"end":16692.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16693.86096875,"end":16740.655343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16743.068468750003,"end":16743.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16743.912218750003,"end":16744.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16745.36346875,"end":16747.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16747.23659375,"end":16748.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16751.404718750004,"end":16754.155343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16754.560343750003,"end":16756.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16754.61096875,"end":16755.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16756.062218749998,"end":16756.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16757.091593750003,"end":16759.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16760.365343750003,"end":16764.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16764.73596875,"end":16769.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16769.629718750002,"end":16776.092843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16776.24471875,"end":16784.648468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16784.80034375,"end":16788.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16790.16659375,"end":16791.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16791.280343749997,"end":16791.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16791.31409375,"end":16791.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16791.381593750004,"end":16791.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16791.719093749998,"end":16791.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16791.820343749998,"end":16835.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16836.13409375,"end":16836.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16838.614718750003,"end":16841.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16842.24284375,"end":16849.499093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16848.975968749997,"end":16849.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16851.65909375,"end":16856.789093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16858.18971875,"end":16867.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16867.38659375,"end":16873.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16874.00159375,"end":16876.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16877.89971875,"end":16881.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16889.965343750002,"end":16892.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16893.576593750004,"end":16895.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16895.702843749998,"end":16928.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16928.406593749998,"end":16948.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16949.61846875,"end":16949.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16951.00221875,"end":16956.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16957.600343750004,"end":16959.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16960.38471875,"end":16977.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16977.833468750003,"end":16982.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16983.80721875,"end":16984.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16985.07284375,"end":17018.789093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17021.37096875,"end":17031.647843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17033.48721875,"end":17048.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17050.193468750003,"end":17053.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17054.294093750003,"end":17056.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17056.521593750003,"end":17058.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17057.601593749998,"end":17058.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17058.411593750003,"end":17060.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17059.795343750004,"end":17063.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17060.99346875,"end":17061.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17061.01034375,"end":17063.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17064.435968750004,"end":17064.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17064.975968749997,"end":17065.920968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17065.24596875,"end":17068.452218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17067.67596875,"end":17083.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17084.888468750003,"end":17091.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17088.904718750004,"end":17089.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17092.22909375,"end":17092.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17092.24596875,"end":17095.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17092.262843750003,"end":17093.781593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17094.709718750004,"end":17098.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17096.14409375,"end":17110.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17104.615343750003,"end":17105.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17109.84659375,"end":17110.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17110.69034375,"end":17126.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17127.44721875,"end":17138.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17138.75346875,"end":17141.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17141.976593749998,"end":17147.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17147.545343750004,"end":17149.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17150.02596875,"end":17150.295968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17151.20721875,"end":17152.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17152.57409375,"end":17165.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17166.192218750002,"end":17200.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17200.937843749998,"end":17202.389093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17202.76034375,"end":17205.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17205.578468749998,"end":17211.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17206.64159375,"end":17207.147843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17211.38346875,"end":17211.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17212.22721875,"end":17249.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17249.80784375,"end":17249.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17249.841593750003,"end":17275.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17275.64346875,"end":17302.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17302.896593750003,"end":17314.725968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17308.920968749997,"end":17309.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17313.105968750002,"end":17326.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17327.97284375,"end":17331.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17329.54221875,"end":17333.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17333.912843750004,"end":17356.913468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17335.54971875,"end":17335.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17335.600343750004,"end":17338.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17353.13346875,"end":17353.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17353.15034375,"end":17353.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17358.246593750002,"end":17362.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17361.18284375,"end":17362.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17362.684718750003,"end":17391.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17392.553468750004,"end":17406.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17405.294093750003,"end":17415.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17411.959718750004,"end":17412.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17416.43159375,"end":17424.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17417.89971875,"end":17417.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17417.950343750003,"end":17418.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17424.58221875,"end":17432.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17427.11346875,"end":17427.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17430.25221875,"end":17433.475343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17436.344093749998,"end":17437.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17438.26784375,"end":17439.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17439.63471875,"end":17439.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17440.19159375,"end":17440.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17441.22096875,"end":17448.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17441.609093749998,"end":17441.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17442.99284375,"end":17443.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17443.02659375,"end":17443.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17443.043468750002,"end":17443.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17443.161593750003,"end":17443.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17443.21221875,"end":17444.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17444.039093749998,"end":17445.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17445.03471875,"end":17445.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17445.152843750002,"end":17445.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17445.203468749998,"end":17445.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17449.692218750002,"end":17451.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17450.58659375,"end":17453.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17451.34596875,"end":17451.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17452.52721875,"end":17452.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17452.59471875,"end":17454.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17455.15971875,"end":17464.812218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17464.96409375,"end":17466.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17466.97221875,"end":17473.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17474.380343750003,"end":17483.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17483.81346875,"end":17485.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17486.412218750003,"end":17492.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17492.335343749997,"end":17493.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17493.398468749998,"end":17502.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17506.341593750003,"end":17515.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17519.740343750003,"end":17537.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17541.880343750003,"end":17549.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17549.912843750004,"end":17565.842843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17565.99471875,"end":17570.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17570.61846875,"end":17573.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17573.77409375,"end":17579.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17579.865968750004,"end":17594.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17587.797218749998,"end":17588.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17594.36159375,"end":17600.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17596.36971875,"end":17597.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17598.630968750003,"end":17603.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17603.86221875,"end":17616.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17618.982218750003,"end":17624.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17625.49596875,"end":17626.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17626.30596875,"end":17626.694093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17626.997843750003,"end":17627.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17627.28471875,"end":17638.607843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17638.607843750004,"end":17657.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17638.624718749998,"end":17638.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17658.50346875,"end":17664.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":17668.999718749998,"end":17669.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17671.699718750002,"end":17674.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17674.73721875,"end":17674.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17674.973468750002,"end":17675.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17675.074718750002,"end":17675.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17675.327843749998,"end":17678.922218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17679.58034375,"end":17680.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17681.301593750002,"end":17683.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17684.33909375,"end":17685.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17685.04784375,"end":17686.499093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17686.499093749997,"end":17686.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17686.515968749998,"end":17686.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17686.53284375,"end":17688.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17688.692843750003,"end":17688.929093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17689.857218750003,"end":17690.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17691.47721875,"end":17702.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17703.795968749997,"end":17704.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17704.97721875,"end":17706.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17707.356593750003,"end":17782.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17762.875343749998,"end":17762.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17762.90909375,"end":17763.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17763.145343750002,"end":17763.179093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17780.661593750003,"end":17780.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17784.40784375,"end":17784.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17784.44159375,"end":17784.475343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17784.475343750004,"end":17786.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17786.044718750003,"end":17815.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17793.959093750003,"end":17794.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17799.61221875,"end":17799.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17799.966593750003,"end":17800.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17816.57159375,"end":17818.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17818.88346875,"end":17819.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17819.912843750004,"end":17822.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17821.684718750003,"end":17822.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17823.591593750003,"end":17823.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17824.334093750003,"end":17837.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17837.614718750003,"end":17839.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17840.280968749998,"end":17843.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17844.95534375,"end":17855.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17856.14346875,"end":17869.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17869.62659375,"end":17890.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17890.703468749998,"end":17891.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17892.070343749998,"end":17899.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17901.199718750002,"end":17902.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17902.684718750003,"end":17903.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17903.41034375,"end":17908.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17908.47284375,"end":17911.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17912.387843750003,"end":17913.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17914.04159375,"end":17932.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17933.397218750004,"end":17977.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17978.36909375,"end":17979.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17980.124093749997,"end":17981.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17981.72721875,"end":17992.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17994.687218749998,"end":17998.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17999.817218750002,"end":18001.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18002.71971875,"end":18003.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18006.465968750003,"end":18007.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18008.575343750003,"end":18008.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18009.250343749998,"end":18011.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18011.57909375,"end":18012.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18012.42284375,"end":18015.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18015.342218750004,"end":18017.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18017.367218749998,"end":18019.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18020.489093750002,"end":18021.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18027.272843749997,"end":18035.389718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18036.216593750003,"end":18039.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18041.04284375,"end":18045.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18048.38346875,"end":18069.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18070.185968750004,"end":18078.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18078.03284375,"end":18082.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18082.48784375,"end":18094.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18094.553468750004,"end":18097.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18097.57409375,"end":18098.873468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18098.569718749997,"end":18098.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18099.295343750004,"end":18107.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18107.732843750004,"end":18110.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18109.55534375,"end":18109.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18109.57221875,"end":18109.639718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18109.639718749997,"end":18110.078468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18110.078468749998,"end":18110.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18114.44909375,"end":18114.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18116.288468749997,"end":18117.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18118.600343750004,"end":18121.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18121.452218749997,"end":18125.789093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18126.68346875,"end":18127.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18128.33721875,"end":18128.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18128.640968749998,"end":18130.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18131.475968749997,"end":18132.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18134.47971875,"end":18134.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18135.458468750003,"end":18136.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18136.45409375,"end":18136.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18136.740968750004,"end":18141.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18136.77471875,"end":18136.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18141.76971875,"end":18143.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18148.114718750003,"end":18148.148468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18148.148468749998,"end":18148.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18151.287218750003,"end":18157.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18158.037218750003,"end":18159.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18159.606593750003,"end":18160.382843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18160.382843749998,"end":18180.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18166.44096875,"end":18166.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18166.64346875,"end":18166.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18179.215343750002,"end":18179.772218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18180.36284375,"end":18180.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18180.43034375,"end":18187.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18191.685968750004,"end":18195.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18194.740343750003,"end":18201.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18202.51971875,"end":18205.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18202.772843749997,"end":18203.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18205.55721875,"end":18205.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18205.74284375,"end":18206.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18207.22784375,"end":18207.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18209.03346875,"end":18209.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18209.97846875,"end":18210.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18210.788468749997,"end":18216.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18216.62721875,"end":18228.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18218.63534375,"end":18219.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18226.195343749998,"end":18226.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18228.23721875,"end":18244.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18229.772843749997,"end":18230.194718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18247.187843749998,"end":18256.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18256.418468750002,"end":18266.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18266.84721875,"end":18270.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18270.96471875,"end":18274.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18274.93034375,"end":18278.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18279.233468749997,"end":18279.672218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18280.33034375,"end":18286.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18287.60346875,"end":18290.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18290.86034375,"end":18291.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18291.484718749998,"end":18296.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18292.88534375,"end":18292.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18292.919093750003,"end":18295.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18296.074718750002,"end":18296.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18296.091593750003,"end":18299.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18296.969093749998,"end":18297.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18297.10409375,"end":18297.171593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18297.171593749998,"end":18297.593468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18297.593468749998,"end":18297.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18298.184093750002,"end":18298.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18298.521593750003,"end":18299.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18299.73659375,"end":18299.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18299.770343750002,"end":18300.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18300.90096875,"end":18301.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18301.795343750004,"end":18305.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18305.271593750003,"end":18306.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18306.89159375,"end":18308.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18309.01784375,"end":18311.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18312.325343750003,"end":18333.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18312.39284375,"end":18312.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18312.443468750003,"end":18312.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18312.47721875,"end":18312.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18312.49409375,"end":18312.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18333.79034375,"end":18344.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18346.44659375,"end":18353.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18353.905343749997,"end":18357.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18354.25971875,"end":18356.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18358.529093750003,"end":18362.764718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18365.02596875,"end":18368.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18369.22784375,"end":18371.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18373.04159375,"end":18374.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18375.06659375,"end":18384.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18385.731593750003,"end":18386.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18386.96346875,"end":18389.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18390.709718750004,"end":18431.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18433.538468749997,"end":18434.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18435.49596875,"end":18438.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18438.34784375,"end":18438.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18438.887843750003,"end":18444.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18445.148468749998,"end":18450.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18451.39221875,"end":18458.530343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18458.715968750003,"end":18478.358468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18478.93221875,"end":18484.045343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18485.530343749997,"end":18486.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18486.036593750003,"end":18495.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18496.617218749998,"end":18496.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18496.785968750002,"end":18496.819718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18496.819718749997,"end":18496.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18497.444093750004,"end":18513.374093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18498.52409375,"end":18499.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18513.374093749997,"end":18527.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18528.139718749997,"end":18539.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18540.22221875,"end":18549.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18550.14471875,"end":18554.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18556.65846875,"end":18556.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18556.692218750002,"end":18556.725968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18556.725968749997,"end":18556.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18556.75971875,"end":18556.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18556.86096875,"end":18556.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18556.87784375,"end":18556.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18556.911593750003,"end":18576.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18566.850968749997,"end":18567.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18567.036593750003,"end":18567.272843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18570.192218750002,"end":18571.491593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18573.263468750003,"end":18573.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18575.76096875,"end":18593.749718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18594.036593750003,"end":18605.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18605.967218750004,"end":18610.945343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18611.38409375,"end":18616.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18616.699718750002,"end":18624.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18624.968468749998,"end":18635.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18636.004718750002,"end":18645.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18646.73721875,"end":18648.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18649.740968750004,"end":18655.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18655.79909375,"end":18657.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18658.043468750002,"end":18681.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18681.263468750003,"end":18686.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18687.54096875,"end":18708.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18708.65159375,"end":18709.967843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18711.26721875,"end":18728.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18729.137843750003,"end":18730.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18730.97721875,"end":18743.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18743.515343749998,"end":18747.194093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18747.396593750003,"end":18748.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18748.645343750002,"end":18752.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18753.65721875,"end":18757.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18756.239093750002,"end":18766.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18766.718468749998,"end":18772.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18773.06346875,"end":18776.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18776.69159375,"end":18776.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18776.708468750003,"end":18785.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18785.888468750003,"end":18786.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18786.90096875,"end":18786.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18786.968468749998,"end":18787.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18787.12034375,"end":18787.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18787.559093750002,"end":18792.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18793.077218749997,"end":18799.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18797.160968750002,"end":18797.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18797.76846875,"end":18804.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18805.109093749998,"end":18809.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18806.054093749997,"end":18806.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18806.07096875,"end":18807.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18809.952218750004,"end":18825.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18812.483468750004,"end":18813.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18813.344093749998,"end":18813.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18816.85409375,"end":18816.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18816.87096875,"end":18817.124093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18817.124093750004,"end":18817.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18817.68096875,"end":18817.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18817.69784375,"end":18817.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18817.731593750003,"end":18818.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18824.599718750003,"end":18825.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18825.240968750004,"end":18825.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18825.578468749998,"end":18825.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18825.662843750004,"end":18825.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18825.79784375,"end":18831.889718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18832.075343750003,"end":18840.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18841.474718750003,"end":18841.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18842.335343749997,"end":18847.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18845.794718750003,"end":18846.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18847.094093749998,"end":18848.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18848.309093750002,"end":18858.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18853.084718750004,"end":18853.607843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18853.607843750004,"end":18853.624718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18855.379718750002,"end":18857.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18859.109093749998,"end":18861.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18862.990343750003,"end":18867.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18867.344093749998,"end":18868.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18868.609718749998,"end":18870.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18870.702218750004,"end":18871.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18872.507843749998,"end":18873.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18875.17409375,"end":18875.663468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18876.051593750002,"end":18877.772843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18878.582843750002,"end":18916.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18917.631593750004,"end":18922.795343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18922.812218749998,"end":18924.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18923.50409375,"end":18924.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18924.702218750004,"end":18929.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18931.80659375,"end":18944.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18945.10409375,"end":18947.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18947.65221875,"end":18964.679093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18964.81409375,"end":18968.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18969.302843750003,"end":18971.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18972.458468750003,"end":18979.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18980.03534375,"end":18989.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18990.32909375,"end":19000.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19000.87596875,"end":19002.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19003.44096875,"end":19007.288468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19007.288468749997,"end":19007.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19007.87909375,"end":19008.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19008.942218750002,"end":19010.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19011.13596875,"end":19045.358468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19046.11784375,"end":19058.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19058.57159375,"end":19060.866593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19061.33909375,"end":19063.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19063.83659375,"end":19063.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19063.85346875,"end":19065.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19065.912218750003,"end":19066.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":19066.030343750004,"end":19066.469093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19066.469093749998,"end":19066.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19066.469093749998,"end":19067.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":19066.958468750003,"end":19074.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":19074.231593750003,"end":19121.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":19121.498468750004,"end":19124.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19124.535968750002,"end":19148.734718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":19124.552843750003,"end":19126.139093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19149.325343750003,"end":19152.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19152.54846875,"end":19156.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19156.750343749998,"end":19160.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19161.20534375,"end":19165.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19166.48721875,"end":19169.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19170.04784375,"end":19175.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19177.709093750003,"end":19178.569718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19179.109718749998,"end":19180.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19180.645343750002,"end":19185.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19186.39971875,"end":19189.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19190.027843750002,"end":19191.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19191.968468749998,"end":19193.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19195.57971875,"end":19198.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19198.887218750002,"end":19204.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19205.637218750002,"end":19207.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19208.910968750002,"end":19214.327843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19215.374093750004,"end":19215.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19215.40784375,"end":19235.303468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19215.458468750003,"end":19215.694718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19236.029093750003,"end":19264.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19266.25221875,"end":19275.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19275.31409375,"end":19302.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19303.15784375,"end":19340.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19341.497843750003,"end":19342.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19345.22721875,"end":19346.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19347.97784375,"end":19357.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19357.27596875,"end":19365.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19365.37596875,"end":19365.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":19367.873468750004,"end":19367.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19367.90721875,"end":19368.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19369.223468750002,"end":19370.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19370.185343750003,"end":19371.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19371.653468750003,"end":19383.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19383.93846875,"end":19385.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19386.28409375,"end":19388.241593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19388.29221875,"end":19459.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19465.343468749998,"end":19466.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19471.40159375,"end":19475.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19475.28284375,"end":19475.873468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19475.72159375,"end":19480.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19480.699718750002,"end":19481.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19482.13409375,"end":19485.272843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19485.61034375,"end":19488.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19488.47909375,"end":19490.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19491.482843750004,"end":19524.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19525.334093750003,"end":19526.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19528.067843750003,"end":19531.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19532.37096875,"end":19536.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19536.927218750003,"end":19542.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19542.968468749998,"end":19545.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19546.748468750004,"end":19559.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19559.742218749998,"end":19561.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19560.974093750003,"end":19563.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19561.699718750002,"end":19561.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19561.80096875,"end":19563.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19563.387218750002,"end":19563.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19563.97784375,"end":19564.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19564.33221875,"end":19564.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19565.125343749998,"end":19565.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":19565.69909375,"end":19566.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19566.036593750003,"end":19566.18846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1441.792,"end":1449.637,"text":"好 包委員會出席委員人數已足法定人數 請主席宣布開會好 我們現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1452.523,"end":1477.18,"text":"立法院第十一屆第四會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第十九次全體委員會議事錄時間一五年一月七日星期三九九點四分至十七點二十六分地點群星樓八零一會議室初期委員王玉明等十五人列席委員賴世寶等十七人列席官員衛生福利部政務次長呂倩德及各相關部會與會人員主席劉昭吉委員見過"},{"start":1479.995,"end":1507.331,"text":"報告事項 宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定討論事項 繼續或審查或繼續審查行政院函清審議身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案案等三十四案本日會議經委員范雲等三人說明提案子去另有委員盧先一等三人等分別提出修正動議共計十四案決議本日會議審查結果如下一 照行政院提案通過第六條條文"},{"start":1512.73,"end":1534.449,"text":"第一條修正通過如下第一條為維護身心障礙者與身心障礙者權利公約所示之各項權益保障其平等參與社會政治經濟文化等之機會促進其自立及發展特制定本法三步與增訂臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第二條之一四保留條文行政院提案第二條第七條及第十條及其對應條文"},{"start":1537.297,"end":1544.021,"text":"2.臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第3條委員林月琴等18人提案第3條及委員范雲等19人提案第3條3."},{"start":1544.021,"end":1551.766,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第4條委員林月琴等18人提案第4條及委員范雲等19人提案第4條4."},{"start":1551.766,"end":1556.009,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第5條及委員范雲等19人提案第5條2."},{"start":1556.009,"end":1562.973,"text":"行政院函清審身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案等34案尚未審查完均另則其繼續審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":1565.08,"end":1580.708,"text":"好 謝謝 那本日會議整為 第一審查藥事法部分條文修正草案等12案 第二審查藥害救濟法等3條及28條修28條條文修正草案等10案 那以上議程才綜合詢答"},{"start":1585.852,"end":1605.961,"text":"好 那這個我知道 OK 對不起先確認上市議事錄 各位委員有沒有其他意見各位委員有錯誤或疑慮之處好 沒有 那我們議事錄確認那現在這個先請陳昭志委員的程序完OK 好"},{"start":1610.764,"end":1624.397,"text":"謝謝主席排審今天藥事法這個重要的這個法案但是首先我要先肯定跟感謝食藥署這段時間持續密集的跟各界溝通的努力包括14天前1月15號在食藥署召開的這個會議當年也有很多藥界這個"},{"start":1625.458,"end":1654.457,"text":"恭喜會與會 提出不少具體跟務實的建議這點我們都看在眼裡 也給予肯定不過我必須提醒大家 藥品供應的韌性並不只是藥商能不能進口製造或調度藥品的問題還包含醫療院所的採購用藥政策高度受到健保給付制度的影響本案雖然是藥事法的修正但其中多項涉及藥品短缺供應調度限制措施與替代用藥的規定事實上已經連動到健保給付的規則"},{"start":1655.418,"end":1658.079,"text":"還有醫療體系的運作但是這是食藥署沒有辦法控制的一個範圍那這樣情況下如果健保署或醫事司未能同步參與討論委員會其實很難全面評估那本次修法對醫院端健保制度以及病人實際用藥可進行的影響這個部分都很難評估所以基於審查的完整性跟程序的正當性我想要請主席"},{"start":1680.163,"end":1702.011,"text":"在本案審查時應該要請健保署還有醫事室參與討論我們就藥品的供應的調度還有健保給付制度的制度之間的關聯向委員會做一個完整的說明謝謝主席好謝謝陳昭志委員的程序外言健保署有來然後還有醫事室也有來醫事室有來沒有簽到"},{"start":1708.171,"end":1733.696,"text":"OK好我們先來介紹在場的委員及列席官員第一位是陳昭之陳委員第二位是羅廷偉羅委員好那現在來對不起介紹與會的官員衛福部我們政務次長林靜儀林次長謝謝食藥署署長江志剛"},{"start":1736.172,"end":1753.045,"text":"中安健康保險署副署長張宇斌謝謝法規會參事陳信成法務部參事汪蘭君經濟部產業發展署副署長陳國軒產業技術室科長陳俊維醫師室醫師室有誰來"},{"start":1767.066,"end":1791.218,"text":"你沒有簽名他沒有做記者給他簽一下有有 意思是念紙的 念紙有到你現在是市長還是副市長今天過後就升了"},{"start":1798.868,"end":1819.691,"text":"好我們先請這個提案委員說明提案料子那為委員兩分鐘先請第一位羅廷偉委員來做提案說明他共有三個提案嗎就請好ok對對可以了可以可以可以讓你說到說到說到完好不好"},{"start":1828.254,"end":1854.741,"text":"好謝謝主席藥害救濟法第三條條文修正喔那鑒於為周延整個藥害的救濟範圍保障民眾用藥的一個權益並配合藥事法的修正喔使民眾用藥如發生藥害時能夠及時得到救濟所以這一次呢修正第二款的合法藥物的一個定義死因因具有藥品許可證藥品有不足供應情形呢因應"},{"start":1855.841,"end":1878.999,"text":"緊急的一個重大或者是公共衛生的一個情勢之專案核准的一個藥品適用要害救濟的一個制度緩止我們特拟據在這一次的第三條條文修正以強化整個要害救濟制度的一個周圍性完善民眾用藥後的一個保障維護公共衛生安全這個是要害救濟法第三條條文修正"},{"start":1879.699,"end":1889.669,"text":"另外我提出的藥事法第55條條文修正依據衛生福利部113年9月11日未售實質地1130023750號藥物樣品的正品管理辦法"},{"start":1898.578,"end":1919.74,"text":"第十七条核准专案制造的一个输入之药品药物的一个样品不得出售有关是否涉及出售之行为原则是其费用是否超出药品相关制造及供应成本的费用而定为使药品样品"},{"start":1920.26,"end":1943.056,"text":"不得出售相關的一個規定明確化鑰匙法第55條修法依據的是來自衛福部正式公文還由此對於這個母法及清楚的揭示藥品樣品不得出售之判斷的一個基準以強化規範的明確性避免實務的一個爭議"},{"start":1946.803,"end":1960.341,"text":"另外我對藥事法第27條第48條以及第96條這個之一條文的一個修正草案呢鑑於國內的藥品樣藥品若有無法持續的這個製造"},{"start":1962.564,"end":1979.79,"text":"輸入或者是不足供應之情形呢如未能在短時間取得適量的藥品恐使國人在生命身體健康有遭遇的一個傷害考量國內公共衛生需求及摻著食物的一個作業參考政府採購法定"},{"start":1982.511,"end":1996.518,"text":"105條的一個規定增訂為因應重大公共的一個衛生情勢之需要得申請專案核准製造或輸入不受要事法第39條規定的一個限制"},{"start":1997.378,"end":2022.64,"text":"另為加強監控必要的藥品供應之情形新增必要的一個藥品之許可證持有藥商應定期申報該類的藥品之製造輸入供應之情形所以在這一次藥事法第27條之二第48條之二以及第96條之一條文修正草案確保國內"},{"start":2024.581,"end":2041.558,"text":"藥品穩定的供應 維護民眾用藥安全跟公共衛生以上是我所做的一個提案說明 謝謝好 謝謝羅委員的提案說明接下來請王振旭委員來做提案說明有兩個案 請一併說明 謝謝"},{"start":2054.062,"end":2074.377,"text":"主席 各位同仁 各位與會的官員 大家早我就先進行相關的提案說明我跟多位委員及行政機關都有提出的這個藥事法跟藥害救濟法部分條文的修正草案最核心的目標基本上就是為了要建立一套更有韌性的藥品供應穩定監測機制"},{"start":2076.579,"end":2091.548,"text":"并且同时能够确保民众在特殊用药的情形之下有好的救济权益首先在药事法的强化监控方面自COVID-19的疫情以来全球药品的供应链不稳"},{"start":2092.566,"end":2107.637,"text":"藥方的問題時有所聞為了讓主管機關能夠及早的因應所以本次的修正裡面包括一要主動的申報要求持有必要藥品許可證的藥商應定期申報製造輸入"},{"start":2109.338,"end":2132.034,"text":"供應規劃及庫存情形不再只是等到這個短缺的時候才通報而是要從源頭就開始預警二彈性專案核准當藥品供應不足或發生重大影響公共衛生情勢例如有特定傳染性的疾病預防的時候主管機關可以專案核准製造或輸入並得視需求來"},{"start":2132.734,"end":2158.681,"text":"限制供应对象数量或范围以确保医疗资源的配置的公平性第三个就是法则的配套针对申报不实或者是未依限这个通报者增订相应的这个行政法则以落实药商的社会责任其次有关于药害救济法的同步配套为了要确保民众用药的权利我们必须补足救济制度的漏洞"},{"start":2159.261,"end":2177.387,"text":"那現行的法規只有只有領有許可證的藥物才適用救濟但未來要因應缺藥或者是緊急公共衛生事情而狀況核准的藥品其性質同樣是為了滿足普遍性的這個醫療的需求因此我們修正了合法藥物的定義將這些"},{"start":2178.347,"end":2189.337,"text":"專案核准的藥品納入保障範圍讓民眾即使在緊急狀況下使用這些藥物若不幸發生要害也能夠及時獲得救濟不因行政流程的簡化而讓權益縮水"},{"start":2191.041,"end":2191.141,"text":"好 謝謝好"},{"start":2216.354,"end":2236.276,"text":"那我這邊也來做這個提案說明和補充啦那我這邊提案是本市提出這個要釋法期藥肺休憩的修法目的就是要強化國內藥物供應的這個供應鏈的韌性那有鑒於過去疫情期間的發生後國內各項藥品供應不穩"},{"start":2237.836,"end":2261.049,"text":"甚至出現斷藥危機對於病患的權益造成莫大的影響所以也希望透過本次的修法希望能強化藥品的預警與應變的兩大機制第一是監測機制針對必要藥品要求藥商定期申報製造與庫存不能等到缺藥才發現第二彈性授權當發生供應不足或緊急空位事件時"},{"start":2262.33,"end":2281.531,"text":"授權中央可以專案核准製造與輸入不受一般查驗登記的限制確保藥品不斷貨那同時也希望透過修正這個藥害救濟法進行配套保障明確定義因應缺藥或緊急公衛需求而專案核准的藥品必須納入藥害救濟的試用範圍"},{"start":2282.492,"end":2301.18,"text":"不能因為是緊急專案就讓民眾承擔這個風險那期盼透過此次修法保障民眾用藥全力及安全避免過去缺藥危機再次發生那以上說明也敬請各位委員可以支持 謝謝我們現在請衛福部林次長進行病案說明"},{"start":2309.638,"end":2337.019,"text":"謝謝委員等一下我現在就直接口頭報告了嗎好謝謝主席各位委員女士先生大家好那今天逢大院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開全體委員會議審查行政院及大院各委員含情審議要事法部分條文修正草案及要害救濟法第3條及第28條條文修正草案提出專案報告本人呈要列席報告深感榮幸敬請各位委員不吝會與指導"},{"start":2338.42,"end":2356.053,"text":"近年來,藥品供應因為新型傳染病的威脅、地緣政治風險以及全球供應鏈中斷等因素面臨嚴峻的考驗,提升藥品供應韌性已經成為各國政府關注的焦點,更升級為確保國家安全的重要一環。"},{"start":2356.913,"end":2371.642,"text":"為此本部盤點國內現有法規的缺口包含一未有要求要商定期申報藥品之供應情形二對於非屬必要藥品之一般藥品許可證若遇短缺形式專案核准之法源不明"},{"start":2372.222,"end":2393.459,"text":"三目前专案核准药品不适用要害救济制度等顾卫求及时掌握国内必要药品供应情形进一步强化因药品短缺之相关措施以及参着公共卫生情势与食物作业情形并完备要害救济制度原理据药事法部分条文及要害救济法第三条第28条修正草案"},{"start":2394.119,"end":2421.018,"text":"两项修正草案的修法重点包含一规范持有必要药品许可证之药商应定期申报药品之制造输入及供应情形二 明定中央主管机关于知悉具有药品许可证之药品有供应不足之余时得专案核准该药品或其替代药品之制造或输入并得采取相关限制措施于必要时适度调控药品供应增进药品供应之横平性"},{"start":2421.758,"end":2445.968,"text":"三 前開專案核准藥物 藥品納入藥害救濟制度保障民眾用藥權益版本與各大院委員所提出修正版本方向一致感謝各位委員提出各版本及修法意見之參考期盼透過本次的修法進一步完善藥事法規強化對於藥品供應穩定與任性值因應並且確保民眾之權益"},{"start":2446.628,"end":2453.436,"text":"本部呈大院各委員之指導及監督在此敬致謝誠並請各位委員繼續予以支持謝謝主席好 謝謝"},{"start":2460.069,"end":2481.999,"text":"有關於本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報那現在開始做懸打 做以下宣告第一本會委員懸打時間六加五分鐘 列席委員四加一分鐘十點半截止花園登記委員如有書面質詢請於三會前提出預期不受理暫定十點半休息十分鐘那本日不處理臨時提案現在請登記第一位委員陳昭芝來受花園謝謝主席 有請次長請次長"},{"start":2494.074,"end":2514.155,"text":"市長今天排審的藥事法草案 攸關藥商是否因為會因為被過度加重責任而選擇退出市場那我要再次強調其實應該要先開公聽會因為聽取供應商的觀點否則只會衍生更多的問題因為這次修法草案不斷的強調藥品供應的韌性但我必須提醒市長"},{"start":2515.256,"end":2534.471,"text":"供應鏈穩定本身是一個高度複雜的一個系統問題他不是單一藥商或供應商可以完全掌握那事實上藥品受到很多國內外的因素影響例如原料要過度集中在一個特定一兩個國家那國際大藥廠事實上是根據他的價格他的市場大小來做一個排序"},{"start":2535.191,"end":2549.898,"text":"那台灣的市場小 要價差 要價低 大家都同意那健保給付會更動 醫院考慮要價差那這個優先順位本來就不高那在這樣的結構之下 本質修法主要是透過兩件事情一個是申報義務 一個是裁罰機制來處理缺藥問題那我感覺是過度將一個結構性的風險轉變為轉化成個別廠商的責任"},{"start":2560.823,"end":2579.745,"text":"那次長覺得完善的藥物供應只是只有供給方的責任嗎所以我下來要請教次長說您除了要求廠商要配合通報跟調度那衛福部本身在供應鏈的治理上在風險的分擔跟誘因的設計上有沒有提出對等的責任跟配套措施呢"},{"start":2580.705,"end":2596.29,"text":"謝謝委員指導其實謝謝委員也剛好提出了這個藥品任性六大行動我們這一次的一個新興的計劃因為其實就像剛剛委員提到的我們事實上希望能夠把我們的原料藥這一邊我們事實上國內是有原料要供應可是當然比例上面還不足而且國內市場比較小"},{"start":2596.77,"end":2622.366,"text":"所以我們目前正在這個藥品供應韌性計畫裡面我們也會再跟如果說之後當然這個計畫跟運算藥委員會通過要大院通過但是這裡面有一個很重要的事情就是也是因為這個原因所以我們在藥價還有藥價的這個獎勵還有藥品的獎勵的部分事實上從原料藥到我們國內的國產藥品我們這邊都會提供相關的支持跟誘因那剛剛其實委員提到了我也知道說過去健保的藥價是一個很大的關鍵"},{"start":2623.366,"end":2638.573,"text":"健保藥價這一邊事實上在過去幾年我們對於少數供應或者是說它是非常關鍵必要藥品的那個價格的部分委員之前也在我們的供你會所以它的價格就會有一個不但是不往下調還會往上調去確保它的供應韌性"},{"start":2640.758,"end":2651.783,"text":"謝謝市長 市長您說明這些基本上大概了解但是就是說現在的問題或是成效我想請對您剛剛有提到個簡報我想請問市長覺得其中我框起來這個字重大影響公衛情勢的定義您覺得夠明確嗎因為現在財量權跟解釋權都在衛福部手上那之前的健保資料管理條例因為我們有個霸王條款明明是可以退出退出權對於目的外使用那但是國家有權就把這個退出權把它阻缺掉"},{"start":2669.511,"end":2694.324,"text":"那當時我們討論很久因為當時用一個非常含糊的字眼叫做國家安全那後來改變了要更具體說法那就是因為我現在也覺得重大影響公衛這個說法太模糊了那我們來回顧一下永豐生理實驗水這件事廠商做不出合格的產品可是這個當中因為他沒有被關倉他繼續通報就像是要申報供應量充足那整個市場佔率也都佔得非常高"},{"start":2695.184,"end":2708.955,"text":"當廠商被勒令停業的時候 完蛋了所以臺灣的休旅鹹水就缺貨了那後來衛福部花了更多錢去國外買沒有許可證更貴的藥品來替代所以請問現在衛福部草案中的重大影響是包括這樣的狀況嗎"},{"start":2710.456,"end":2731.332,"text":"報告委員其實我們當然希望如果以永豐這個案子盡量希望不要走到那一步所以其實剛剛提到了永豐因為他佔的市佔當時市佔70%所以我們現在對於各藥廠還有相關的藥品供應希望能夠讓整個供應鏈能夠是不要集中在同一間廠商在立法的時候你說重大影響供應鏈這個部分還因為這是個形容我們這個部分其實還參考WHO這個部分參考WHO國際關注突發公關"},{"start":2734.634,"end":2746.144,"text":"衛生事件的定義我剛剛特別有提到健保資料管理條例那時候也做了很好的一個修正就請次長再思考一下那這次修正常規就有第96條第一項規定如果要講申報或申報內容不實就可能被處以罰還甚至連續罰要一直改善為止那這個是賦予主管機關相當大的裁量權那我請教江署長"},{"start":2757.074,"end":2786.067,"text":"申報的內容包含什麼廠商是否有申訴跟說明的機會我先跟你說一下當時情形可否針對需求量暴增不可抗力的這種理由提出說明可能暴增他就就功量不足當年有個藥AvendiaAvendia是一個當時是很好的降血糖藥那因為他突然下肢是因為心臟血管的一個風險下肢結果造成另外一個藥叫Genevia現在都還在市面上那大增用量大增那當然會產生一些供應的問題"},{"start":2786.807,"end":2789.509,"text":"還有還有乳癌標靶藥因為健保署的這個這個財務受限他就突然間以某價錢以上我才 以下我才買結果整個這個藥廠大變動這個生物用藥跟原廠大變動就是換了廠牌那這個供應量整個就發生一個很大的變化"},{"start":2805.521,"end":2830.838,"text":"那再來有一個肺癌藥他通過的時候大概預期兩億啊我會再提到他後來爆充到二三十億那這種量我想請問這次修法是否有獨立審查跟專業評估機制而不是單獨由這個主管機關來認定因為請記得藥品的採購權跟處方權都不在你這次修法裡面的要究責的對象但是你究責的是廠商"},{"start":2832.054,"end":2852.045,"text":"包委員就這一個部分因為剛才提到幾個例子不管Avendia、Tagris等等的藥物的使用的確它是沒辦法究責的因為特定的政策改變所以在這個部分我們一定一定在這次通過之後在後續的執法規裡面會做進一步的討論我是希望先能看到有一個這樣的機制"},{"start":2853.106,"end":2878.855,"text":"是的 我們會進一步研議我剛剛為什麼說程序發言 次長你也知道因為有太多因素不是他能 如果他百分百要被究責那我們都沒有話說那請問次長在健保的制度下什麼情況算是申報內容不實因為在健保署本身也有加量協議那個PVA或是幾副協議就MBA那也做了醫療評估啊 可是估錯了有多少那其中我要講非科學因素有多少"},{"start":2879.835,"end":2891.763,"text":"剛剛我們提到那個TAGRESO他本來是約束2億結果後來衝到快40億那這個快速 為什麼他小效非常好他快速的擴張那這個是算內容不實還是誰的錯我是說當你覺得內容不實的時候那我們請你氣象報告"},{"start":2895.866,"end":2906.098,"text":"我們也給他很好的設備啊 他就很正確嗎GDP的足跡總數每年成長率一年調了十幾次他也是錯誤啊 一直調啊那為什麼都沒有懲罰機制唯獨這個藥品的用量一不對 一跟預期不合那就要懲罰 沒有啦 沒有那麼"},{"start":2911.183,"end":2937.241,"text":"不过先跟委员报告几个事情像之前我们生理神水那个时候很多医院跟原来的药厂都有相关的契约相关的合约当时为了要能够大家平衡能够来供应一起来让台湾的医疗服务能够运作其实当时我们食药署也协助像各医疗院所还有各医疗院所出具一个指示是说请他们在这段时间不能就责于原来厂商的合约谢谢市长"},{"start":2937.381,"end":2960.462,"text":"因為這個部分是當然您有做這樣努力我們謝謝你但是這件事既然要修法我覺得還是要有一個比較正確的因為如果藥廠依照被限收的幾付條件下他去申報去申報他的量能量能如實申報但是後來因為幾付擴增了臨床處方行為改變或是大家都會被類視頻連動我剛剛也舉了一個例子類視頻改變的狀況就改變或自費病人增加那個"},{"start":2961.283,"end":2983.681,"text":"就是今天是健保署在這邊以前健保署是不管自費藥但是部長次長您是必須連自費藥的因素一起考慮那就出現很多的落差那這樣會不會被認為是申報不實如果連健保署都自己都無法估準用量那在高度不確定的制度環境下那廠商為什麼要被糾正為什麼要承擔本來他不該全部承擔的這個"},{"start":2984.261,"end":3001.981,"text":"當然跟我們報告這次我們其實整個修法是希望能夠協助廠商在相關法源的部分更明確廠商其實才比較不會真的跟我們之間有一些衝突或者是矛盾那再補充一下就是說有些藥品在供應像您剛剛提到因為某一個規矩的變動可能會某一個藥品突然間大量處理這個部分或是某一個變動讓藥品它的連動"},{"start":3003.883,"end":3017.055,"text":"其實我們現在在相關的藥品我們定期食藥署跟健保署的會議裡面我們會跟相關的學協會討論說某一個藥品因為廠商已經給我們警訊了他可能會短期之內供應會有短缺的情況之下是不是有哪些影響連動到其他藥品我個人沒有反對說"},{"start":3019.897,"end":3043.307,"text":"藥廠通報責任 但憑幸好論市長你現在覺得健保市場對藥品是個好環境嗎西藥代理商公會 民意理事長朱滿講說目前是臺灣藥界最有寫最艱困的時代因為原廠要從許可證和健保合價到醫院採購每一段都用年來算了用年的時間來算然後造成代理商必須付出很高昂的權益金甚至消耗過期的這個藥品另外一方面健保合價制度"},{"start":3043.967,"end":3070.605,"text":"嚴重的壓縮藥品的利潤讓藥界叫苦連天因為脊腹價格低 條件嚴苛我想這個連醫界都在反映那又有巨額的藥價差如果脊腹制度沒有任何的精進又不斷的加重廠商的負擔難道不會影響跨國藥廠比如說台灣市場醫院甚至連本國連本國的廠商都不願繼續做下去嗎當時的生理實驗其實某個程度也反映了這件事情生理實驗實驗這件事情是廠商他們就是規避他們應該有的品管不是價格的問題"},{"start":3072.998,"end":3086.466,"text":"市長你應該知道真相不是如此委員真的我們去調查過那個廠商而且我們在那個生理鹹水是有請各廠商提出來我們在他出事之前我們才調過價格到現在食藥署還沒有接受其實健保署也有高度責任那我就請教啦監察院2023年調查報告指出食藥署欠缺主動查核的管理機制在接貨藥品短缺通報後這是監察院喔無論是否屬於必要藥品當然必要很難認定很難認定各說各話"},{"start":3099.773,"end":3128.881,"text":"事實上多你們緊確瞭解供應狀況啦 臨床必要性替代藥品的取代評估然後再請他說你以後要加強這個輸入或是生產 或是啟動專案進口因應但是食藥署雖然過去你剛剛有提到會協調保留一定的數量供應在譬如說跟基層的地方 社區藥局等但是因為藥商大部分與大型醫院簽約嘛但簽約就會有處罰嘛那造成缺藥的時候當然首先是供應那邊那雖然你做協調但是這只是沒有具有法律效力哦這個只是"},{"start":3129.281,"end":3157.056,"text":"是 所以這次我們才會在修法的條文裡面希望在這種緊急狀況之下我們能夠有一定程度的供應的法源調度法源回來 常常會出現說西藥署評估是沒有缺藥但是民眾事實上是領不到藥的你在27條第三語規定主管機關的限制藥品供應的範圍期間數量對象與方式或採取其他管制措施可是西藥署可以不管廠商跟醫院的契約統一去做分配請問署長 那違約的處罰要廠商吞下來就是說等於說"},{"start":3158.296,"end":3176.491,"text":"我想你們都明白醫院除了違約金他還有其他的處罰方式包括整體藥品該搶的處方量或是直接停掉停用藥品次長您去年去的去年去年在新聞中我說中部某家醫院對不對他因為這個利潤開藥就是以利潤來取向所以我是說藥廠他配合國家政策但是你如果去保障他們願意配合國家政策的權益"},{"start":3185.678,"end":3190.461,"text":"还有在非必要的药品的管理上是不是你还是只是扮演协调的角色"},{"start":3217.059,"end":3238.177,"text":"那您刚刚提到的医院这边其实它有一件很重要的事情像去年生理咸水的案前年生理咸水的案子的时候原来医院它自己的供应韧性它自己储备的量能足够的情况之下它暂时比较没有短缺的压力所以那次很多的医院也发现它如果没有跟厂商签约它如果没有具备自己本身的药品供应韧性它自己都只是在那个最少的量然后只要明天到了才需要叫货"},{"start":3238.217,"end":3263.887,"text":"我們就希望醫院不要造成這樣的事情明明就是剩下一個藥品然後這個品質不良然後最後剩下全台灣就仰賴他他當時給付25塊但是他賣給醫院18塊所以這一次我們所以18塊錢那個藥價差要給醫院嘛委員這一次我們就調度就必要藥品的那個藥價我們會另外做一些調整然後再來在這一次其實處理裡面剛剛其實委員第一張判斷片我非常感謝委員因為我們在新興的這個藥品任性計畫裡面就是希望能夠把整個"},{"start":3264.827,"end":3292.766,"text":"做全面性的調整讓藥商這邊不要只是用低價來做處理我們對於必要藥品 重要藥品 關鍵藥品我們尤其是國產我們希望能夠全力來協助市長我想謝謝你行政機關我希望在處理任何法案的時候就知道所有利害關係人就是不是說單純的簡單把究責放在廠商那就結束了因為剛剛我已經用盡努力說明為什麼不是單一因素我們非常感謝廠商過去在法院都還沒有非常的完整的情況之下協助我們去完成我們的供應人心謝謝市長 署長 謝謝主席"},{"start":3297.771,"end":3308.204,"text":"接下來請陳清威委員來做詢談好 謝謝主席 謝謝委員還有各位官員 現在請次長來 次長"},{"start":3316.844,"end":3343.821,"text":"之前部長有講到說因為2025年台灣即將邁向超高齡的計劃所以不管是透過三高防治888計劃大災計劃等等這些您都非常熟悉了但最近他有提出一個比較特別的就是其他國家可能也有在執行的叫做健康幣那這些都是希望民眾可以及早可以介入並且養成自己維持健康的習慣預防剩餘治療所以本期今天第一個題目是想跟您討論健康幣"},{"start":3344.822,"end":3370.462,"text":"好 之前衛福部規 規劃啦他是說期望透過幾個方式比如說接種疫苗他就可以得到健康幣或是他有準時的參加癌症篩檢以及他去聽健康相關的講座或是透過智慧型的產品去監控他的運動的狀況有點像是破任務這樣子的方式來達成接下來呢他就可以去換成商品或是健康食品等等的"},{"start":3371.002,"end":3398.503,"text":"我是想要初步跟次長請教你們未來是想要採用比如手機的APP或者是你們希望怎麼樣把它跟這些運動的程式去做連結其實簡單來講事實上我謝謝委員關注這一點因為過去我們在健保制度我想委員很清楚過去在健保制度裡面你做健康促進並沒有辦法在整個制度裡面得到支持反而是他的醫療耗用越多"},{"start":3398.763,"end":3416.665,"text":"对他来讲缴一样的钱所以我们很清楚说我们过去在健保制度里面并没有去做所谓相关健康行为促进的鼓励那事实上很多县市的县市卫生局已经开始做类似的事情比方说你有打疫苗像我们之前在COVID的时候也是一样我们有一些行为希望大家能够来做健康促进所以健康币的精神就是希望"},{"start":3417.125,"end":3436.839,"text":"民眾的健康行為健康促進的行為能夠得到一些正面的鼓勵比方說比較更有誘因像這樣子的做法至於說到時候我們現在在規劃裡面還是初步規劃這個規劃到時候我們當然現在有一個我們最普遍用的最好在COVID的時候就是我們手上健保APP健保APP可能是一個我們到時候會應該會用APP"},{"start":3438.24,"end":3459.182,"text":"目前還在規劃中但是實際上你如何要跟這個運動連結你們現在只有這個想法可是要怎麼去落實這些細節還在規劃我們現在在因為這裡面有牽涉到不同的面向那有健康行為促進有的時候是在我們國健署有的健康行為促進又在長照也有的可能在運動部這一邊所以我們到時候會做比較廣泛的一個討論"},{"start":3459.963,"end":3480.829,"text":"了解那這邊呢我再舉一個新加坡的例子可能次長也已經有研究了新加坡他是用一個Healthy 365 APP那就可以累積HealthPoint那值得讓我們參考跟借鏡的是他們除了可以去換一些voucher就是電子的購物券或者是你如果完成整體的健康諮詢你可以連結到保險"},{"start":3481.929,"end":3502.282,"text":"保費的折扣那他的優點是說高度數位化他跟商家合作那點數一定用得完而且他範圍很廣因為你剛除了提到運動他裡面連飲食或是睡眠的習慣他都把他串連在裡面甚至他把保險都拿南瓜進來但是這個就會是一個大工程等等我會再跟你討論好我們"},{"start":3503.983,"end":3521.635,"text":"這樣子如果去執行的話我去看了一些其他國家的做法他們最後會遇到兩個問題第一個是數位落差這個您應該也理解這個數位落差很大尤其我們超高齡我們要如何讓這一個需要非常需要健康租金的人口都可以不要有這個數位落差第二個就是"},{"start":3523.056,"end":3535.695,"text":"這個其實在美國的伊利諾大學有做過類似的計畫他當時有一萬兩千名員工然後研究的時間大概是兩年結果就他們整個去回顧回顧他們健康溯源計畫的影響發現"},{"start":3537.518,"end":3559.293,"text":"最後是自願參加的人有了正面選擇也就是說最終他們有參加這個計畫的人本來回溯以後發現他們原本就是醫療費用比較低或者他們從事健康行為的比例比較高的人也就是較為健康或是具有健康意識的人才會參加這樣子的活動這是他們後來最後的數據顯示的結果"},{"start":3560.894,"end":3583.403,"text":"所以這邊我有幾個建議然後也想知道您的看法第一個就是你有沒有辦法跟速發部我知道財政部可能不一定這個保險業你有辦法去介入但是首先你可能很需要速發部的幫忙那再來如果你可以學習新加坡把保險納入Maybe也是一個很好的方法但他可能就會拖長這個健康幣執行的時間"},{"start":3585.385,"end":3601.848,"text":"第二個就是針對剛有講到這些人本來就是會比較注重健康針對高風險族群比如他本來就有三高或者是他本來就在BMI比較高的人是不是針對這些族群你去擴大他的誘因你的健康幣可能他有分成"},{"start":3602.768,"end":3627.717,"text":"1比1或者是1比1.2或是1比1.5 1比1.8讓他從非常不健康的狀況邁向健康然後再去下降他的幅度然後進一步去鼓勵他的誘因所以大概是這兩點不知道一個月內可不可以給我報告兩點就第一個是你有沒有你覺得你有沒有辦法跟速發部或是保險相關的產業去做結合那第二個就是針對"},{"start":3629.918,"end":3644.949,"text":"這個其他國家已經研究出來後來居然是比較健康的參加沒有幫助到那些真的很需要幫助的人這點你要如何去做差別提高他的誘因我想委員我們可能只能先給委員初步我們現在的規劃因為就像委員說這是一個蠻龐大的規劃但是其實也希望能夠帶領一個"},{"start":3648.571,"end":3665.115,"text":"新的思考就是說健康促進是一個很重要的事情大家不要只是從疾病跟健保端我們要從健康促進端更前端來做預防因為未來高齡化人口那剛剛所提到的其實委員說的比較複雜的慢性病這一塊事實上在888計畫裡面可能會比較有幫助"},{"start":3665.695,"end":3690.861,"text":"但是當然我們也慢慢希望說因為像委員也知道現在有很多他是即時行的回饋看到他的慢性病控制這個對於很多慢性病病人來講他更有資料跟資訊能夠清楚知道原來他怎麼樣的飲食能夠對於他的某些慢性病控制更直接這個部分我們之後可能慢慢會再做一些規劃好那簡單來講這個部分就是希望說合併跟我們其他的慢性病控制的這個計劃專案有些從健保處理有些從健康"},{"start":3690.981,"end":3720.128,"text":"我知道但是現在慢性病很明顯的嘛他並沒有辦法從習慣得到誘因啊因為你的健康病的意思就是說我不管是控制我的飲食控制我的睡眠或者說規律運動你想結合這些運動程式嘛智慧智慧型的用品其實還包含比方說像疫苗接種現在我想我也知道說很多疫苗接種事實上是慢性病的病人最需要對所以我的意思是說既然你要做了你是不是就把它考量進來是謝謝委員我們會做一些相關的考量那就一個月跟你要這個"},{"start":3721.028,"end":3749.853,"text":"我们初步计划给委员好不好但是细节可能还没有办法那么多那下一个议题也是接到一些基层的反应就去年9月因为我知道您对这个议题着墨甚多去年9月我们有一个任性台湾民主永续这个论坛所以我们就针对很多医院的地下空间因为现在地下空间大家都知道不是拿来停车就是当美食街那之后有没有办法变成开刀房加护病房产房甚至是透析等等的"},{"start":3750.933,"end":3777.173,"text":"做這樣子的因應狀況那當時呢您應該有參加這個研討會他就有提到說替代醫療的地下空間分成三個階段裡面包括準備就緒還有啟動就緒是48小時要完成替代空間的建置而啟動呢是準備運作到至少72小時比如說維持他自己的電力水電藥品等等的這個對現階段我們所有的醫療院所都是一個很大的考驗"},{"start":3777.913,"end":3796.67,"text":"那這個是基層啦有一些醫護人員其實大家對這件事情是有興趣的可是呢裡面有很多很陌生的概念最後呢在這個研討會只有很少數的人知道並且可能是管理階層可是如果你要去落實這一切比如說前進外科小組啦比如說備援手術室團隊啊比如說危機下的醫療準則"},{"start":3800.453,"end":3821.156,"text":"這些制度規則其實真的要執行的是低先的人但是在參加這個研討會的人是高層的人那你如何因為很多人是想做的很多人想參與的你如何在可能你有一個保密的機制還有在它實際可以落實你要如何達到這個平衡"},{"start":3821.876,"end":3844.521,"text":"跟鮑委員其實這個案子目前我們主要是針對重度急救責任醫院因為COVID那一次大家也會發現說有的時候如果你一旦有發生感染或特殊狀況比方說它有一些公共安全的一些問題也會導致我們的醫療量能它受到很大的影響所以像這個部分我們事實上就是希望說至少先由重度急救責任醫院能夠有這樣的機制"},{"start":3845.461,"end":3873.833,"text":"那也先跟委員補充重度急救責任醫院他要能夠自己在水電能夠供應72小時以上這個是我們本來對於重度急救責任醫院就有的要求也就是他在他原來的醫療服務提供的韌性裡面就有這樣的要求那我們在這兩年當然有一些相關的訓練也像您所說的我們是跟醫院的主管因為主管要先知道他要怎麼樣去調度相關的資源那今年度我們會跟包含地方的衛生局以及相關我們剛剛講重度急救責任醫院的這些醫院"},{"start":3874.813,"end":3891.484,"text":"本身負責這些主管再有一個比較詳盡的一個說明那這樣子的話他們自己在內部其實就像我想委員之前如果在機構待過事實上很多的醫院他都會要有比方說防火火災的時候要什麼班大家要怎麼樣去運作誰是指揮中心誰是來調度大概就是像這樣子一個方式我中央"},{"start":3892.404,"end":3908.609,"text":"我這邊舉一個應該是全世界最高規格的醫院它是以色列的蘭巴姆醫學中心它本來地下室是可以停1500台車子的停車場可是它會在6到8小時之內就可以把它改裝成2000床的地下堡壘的"},{"start":3909.629,"end":3923.425,"text":"裡面包括我剛提到的這些東西並且自給自足數日獨立的水電氧氣失誤氣密就是假定他們是長時間的受到火箭的攻擊等等的所以我在這邊是具體給你一個建議說因為你今年還要去宣導嘛"},{"start":3924.246,"end":3944.804,"text":"那你今天在宣導的時候我們不要只停留在鼓勵跟方向這個層次可能我們去盤點或者是改造你必須要把剛剛我講的這些指標就是幾個小時之內或者他可以支撐幾天把它連結在裡面那這邊呢就是我們上禮拜有發函因為石部長有講到說未來新設醫院"},{"start":3945.885,"end":3961.38,"text":"按照一定的比例10%會保留作為急救或者是暫時醫療用途等等的但目前這些協助跟支持僅限於公立醫院有很多私立醫院他其實是表達說他有意願就這樣做並且他自主有些人現在已經在這樣做"},{"start":3962.361,"end":3976.177,"text":"所以我希望這個就是另外一個可以希望一個月或者是一週內可以給我們公文回覆就是說你可不可以極大化我們的醫療韌性就是說你大概多久的時間以內你剛剛講到嘛 地方衛生局嘛"},{"start":3977.538,"end":3995.852,"text":"多久時間以內你可以極大化醫療韌性我的意思是說讓更多人去參與因為你現在你剛有提到是高層第二個就是是不是可以把這些支持擴張到公立跟私立醫院一起委員是不是容我們一個月給您回覆好不好好 謝謝主席 謝謝次長好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝次長接下來請王育民委員來做詢問"},{"start":4009.05,"end":4011.253,"text":"謝謝主席我們有請次長還有署長委員好"},{"start":4019.486,"end":4039.435,"text":"我首先要請問重大食安問題就是這個感染破油冒充頂級感染油的事件這個從他進口到現在大概長達700天這麼長的時間那他這樣的一個就是感染破油他包括他有添加這個化學性的物質去萃取"},{"start":4040.655,"end":4068.39,"text":"那第一個我就要問的是到目前為止它從2024年進口出產到現在已經賣出多少數量有高達多少謝謝委員的提問針對這個橄欖破油其實橄欖油其實它的命名裡面就有一項是橄欖破油所以橄欖破油其實是本來就可以上市本來可以採用的我現在問的是數量破油變成是高級的混沖所以它接的"},{"start":4069.13,"end":4097.238,"text":"跟委員交了報告因為他接了這件事情之後呢他是核的但是他接了同業綠素進去去混沖從高級的他就是所謂的假冒假冒參委這個是屬於詐欺的行為數量有多少這是他 確確的數量呢容我回去你們還沒有掌握這已經好幾天了耶對這速度太慢了第一個我要講的是為什麼我們主管機關這麼晚才知道而這一個不是油食藥署集合的吧是減掉吧有人通報減掉是不是"},{"start":4097.278,"end":4123.296,"text":"我們主動在12月份的時候通調到檢調是你們通報的那你們是因為查核還是有人舉報是我們去查核的過程當中就在市場查核的時候覺得是不對的一個狀況之下然後呢跟檢調就合作所以12月份1月總共有三次的通報我們其實在部裡面都有掌握那過去你們針對這個橄欖油的查核每一年都有做嗎是的我們每一年都有做橄欖油的查核的事項"},{"start":4124.15,"end":4152.012,"text":"所以到去年才發現對 因為但是它是2024年就開始2024年的查核沒有發現對 跟委員報告因為查核的時候其實不會是每一項它是抽查的但是抽查的過程中如果我們發現過去因為同業率數之事情已經很穩定下來之後它查核的密度跟強度我們是持續在做但是它的強度跟密度就會減少但是抽查中了之後我們覺得不對立即跟檢調能夠去共同的所以在這個過程中"},{"start":4152.432,"end":4177.601,"text":"但是查核到之後 你針對市售的感染油你要不要再加強你的頻率跟密度報告委員 這是必要的我們針對這個重新有這樣子的不肖的廠商做這件事情我們會努力的因為其實國際上過去這個感染油被混沖假冒的這個就是在食安事件裡面很常見的那過去台灣曾經爆發過因為強力的稽查後來人不敢現在感覺是你們鬆了之後"},{"start":4178.241,"end":4194.721,"text":"业者又开始蠢蠢欲动所以我要求你们应该要在这个部分再去查核另外一个我要问的是他进口的这么大量的这一些感染油泼你们有去登录有去追踪他的流向吗报告委员在我们追踪追溯的流向里面这都是清清楚楚的"},{"start":4195.202,"end":4214.681,"text":"都有都有因為在整個的追蹤在邊境進來之後我們的查了系統所以他是有登錄在你的追溯系統我們的追蹤系統他才進貨都很清楚他的數量都有在裡面對 都很清楚只是他現在做的事情是把同月利數去做另外一個販賣的點那原則上這個油是可以的只是同月利數那他可以做什麼油"},{"start":4215.362,"end":4239.274,"text":"就是這些感染破油可以做什麼它也是我們一般的油品是可以符合我們現在上市的規定但是它必須要正向揭露來自於感染破油而不是所謂的粗榨感染油這個就是我要講的你們如果從源頭管理當它大量進口的時候你們應該要加做一個動作這些大量進口破油的它有可能就會混沖成高基油所以像針對這樣的業者其實你們應該是要有查核的機制才對"},{"start":4240.054,"end":4258,"text":"就是監督流向我覺得這個才是從源頭的管理我希望未來這一個這塊你們應該要去強化好不好謝謝委員指導我們一定好那接下來問今天的有關於這個藥品的相關的草案的修正我請教一下市長因為現在修法裡面特意去強調定期申報但是我們看到過去缺藥的問題其實很多他是退出市場"},{"start":4264.702,"end":4292.383,"text":"那所以你的這個定期申報可以解決退出市場的這樣的一個問題嗎報告委員其實像如果是因為退出市場它有很多不同的原因啦那其中有一些部分它是這種像剛剛委員這邊提到的有些是它廠商自己的機制的問題那那個如果是全球的那個廠商的問題那這一類的你要怎麼去處理因為很多這種它都是已經是我們本身有學名藥了所以我們本身有學名藥的時候我們事實上是希望"},{"start":4292.623,"end":4306.905,"text":"不会有断货缺货的问题我们当然是你都是可以接轨的每一样都可以我们事实上在每一个药品事实上请我们现在这个这次修法里面请厂商要能够提早让我们知道就是说我们能够尽早的来确定那像这种要退出市场的要多早让你知道"},{"start":4309.025,"end":4334.814,"text":"報告委員我們對於所謂重大緊急的一些藥品的部分我們是希望能夠定期嘛那我們定期過去呢如果有這種情形提早半年告訴我但是如果不可規則我們是一個月嘛但對於整體藥物我們最近希望在藥物任性計畫裡面做所謂Peer CenterPharmaceutical IntelligenceLogistics and Storage Center希望能夠進一步的能夠監控調度我們希望在這樣子的頻率"},{"start":4335.974,"end":4357.297,"text":"也跟工協會裡面做了很多的溝通如果最準應該每一天都有動態的我覺得是不可能的但是如果能夠及時的讓我們在所以在不同的藥物底下我們可能還需要去做細分這容我們在我們的特別病的辦法裡面去做一些些溝通完確立我覺得有些非常關鍵性的藥物要非常密集的"},{"start":4357.978,"end":4378.067,"text":"相對的如果他不是那麼關鍵性的藥物等等他可以拉開時間所以我們最長的我們本來預計是差不多半年短期的話大概是一到三個月但是這些事情呢一定要整體我們藥物評估之後跟整個業者因為供應跟醫院跟健保跟整個醫療系統裡面要共同溝通所以我們目前呢沒有確確確定說"},{"start":4379.768,"end":4394.139,"text":"一體試用全部都是幾個什麼時間但是因為不同藥物跟不同需求之下我相信它對於時間上的要求也業者其實藥商們他們都非常非常支持這一件事情我要告訴你就是說它沒有那麼簡單透過簡單的修法你說定期申報你所有的問題都迎刃而解就像我剛剛講的"},{"start":4398.943,"end":4421.178,"text":"所以你未來的你怎麼樣去強化那個密度跟溝通跟掌握去理解然後這個動態他必須是個動態式的管理所以接著我就要問說未來衛福部你們有一個藥物韌性推動專案辦公室這個專案辦公室跟剛剛署長你講的你未來要更積極的去掌握這一些藥品的這個動態跟動向有什麼樣直接的關係嗎"},{"start":4422.559,"end":4439.547,"text":"因為它的成立會去強化解決這個藥品缺藥的問題嗎因為既然是談到藥物韌性我覺得應該是要有一些關聯吧有還是沒有跟委員報告其實我們去增加藥品供應韌性當然剛剛委員所提到避免缺藥這是其中的一環"},{"start":4440.327,"end":4456.096,"text":"那更重要的一件事情是我們會發現說有一些藥品它幾乎長期都依賴進口那我們自己國內事實上國內的藥廠需要我們用國家的力量來支持國內的藥廠能夠自給自足來提供我們國內的藥品需求所以也包含在我們這次的藥物潤性這個計畫裡面"},{"start":4457.937,"end":4476.616,"text":"鼓勵跟支持我們自己國產的藥廠增加我們國內的供應的韌性既然如果要成立藥物韌性推動專案辦公室我又有一種既視感看到少子女化對策辦公室因為這個辦公室看起來我要今天要問兩位的就是"},{"start":4477.196,"end":4498.54,"text":"有沒有聘專人在這一個辦公室我們如果講一個office一個辦公室就是要有專人坐鎮在這邊每天辦公在處理這樣的一個事情但目前為止我看到你們的架構裡面你比較像是委員會你不是個辦公室我沒有看到你們哪邊設專人還是你有設專人設多少人是不是可以回答"},{"start":4501.709,"end":4520.881,"text":"跟委員做進一步說明的確在藥物韌性推動的專案辦公室我們目前在人力上面以及整個架構部分我們持續在研擬的當中我們希望的是他能夠落地有沒有專人的設置我們是希望有專人設計整體的內涵的部分我們其實持續跟"},{"start":4521.941,"end":4537.058,"text":"衛福部我們部長這邊做一些構思所以還沒有定案還沒有完全的定案因為這整體的來講現在在食藥署面整個我們的藥品組的協作底下因為我看到的你們現行的架構你們是社委委員會是的"},{"start":4538.519,"end":4559.813,"text":"所以委員會就是委員會辦公室是辦公室如果你是委員會就不能叫辦公室因為過去少子化對策辦公室已經被委員問出來說根本就是空的也沒有專人就打個倒倒就是不同的部會然後誇一個名稱叫辦公室這樣不行所以我今天要問你就是說你這到底是辦公室還是委員會看起來很像委員會不是辦公室"},{"start":4560.453,"end":4585.016,"text":"我们其实是目前是委员会的规划所以在未来的运作的部分如果有需要有专人等等的我们想持续的研议目前的确是在委员会的一个架构底下来运行那就不能叫做办公室我希望大家是很务实的处理事情你框一个办公室会让大家认为说你是拼了专人然后要全力来推动药物任性这项计划这才叫专办"},{"start":4585.877,"end":4602.189,"text":"如果沒有專人這不叫專辦你充其量就是有個定期的委員會來處理相關的事務我覺得不要誤導好不好那這件事情我們的藥物韌性我們的這個缺藥的問題我們希望這個你們編了很龐大的預算這個是要好好做的"},{"start":4602.429,"end":4629.729,"text":"跟委员报告这里面其实蛮大的一个部分在经济部就是说我们这边盘出来有需要支持或者是要特别来培植的相关的药品的产业那这个部分我们要麻烦经济部来给我们协助好那最后问一个问题春节快到了就是说春节期间最近这个流感其实有上升的一个情况那过去都是跑大医院你们今年有特别一个计划就是要诊所它的这个开诊率那过去只有一成你们现在希望提高到几成"},{"start":4630.129,"end":4647.187,"text":"我們希望能夠盡量提升目標呢目標其實跟委員報告就是說診所這邊因為放下放得很久我們這次的計畫裡面希望能夠讓診所至少包含診所這邊還有相關的醫院用UCC的方式來開診至於目標的話我們當然希望能夠比過去再更高一點"},{"start":4647.768,"end":4668.031,"text":"多少兩成三成正在努力希望你們沒有設目標那另外一個你們要注意那個藥品是不是跟得上包括我藥品這個部分我們已經全部盤點過了對那藥局會開嗎診所開藥局有跟著開嗎藥局這邊很多連鎖藥局他們會開啦會開所以現在診所比較缺那診所比較缺因為畢竟診所很多他可能就是一位醫師跟幾位護理師"},{"start":4668.792,"end":4683.924,"text":"我希望你們這一塊因為三四部長沒有來他就說去開跟院長報告這樣一個專案我希望你們是不是只有開會這個真的是要嚴正以待因為我有看到最近真的這個感冒的人數其實在上升"},{"start":4684.284,"end":4711.291,"text":"所以也希望就是說也謝謝委員這邊的垂詢我們就希望現在也正在跟民眾宣導就是很多慢性病他可以提早領藥了他的慢簽再來的話很多慢性病的病人因為現在距離農曆過年還有一年的期間一個月的期間沒有一年一個月的期間這段時間民眾他對於他慢性病他應該要就醫及早就醫的部分能夠盡量先來做處理我希望你們持續加強宣導不要讓大家看到春節急診大用賽的這樣情況再現希望大家都能夠開開心心過年避免到急診去好 謝謝謝謝"},{"start":4715.612,"end":4729.801,"text":"好 接下來請邱正勳委員來做選擇好 謝謝主席 我們有請次長好 請次長"},{"start":4736.058,"end":4750.844,"text":"委員長 次長好我們今天審查這個藥事法跟藥害救濟法那我看了一下行政院版本那當然這個提案的背景是因為新型傳染病的威脅 地緣政治的風險提升藥品的這個供應"},{"start":4752.396,"end":4768.051,"text":"韌性還有全球這個供應鏈中斷等等我想請問這個次長這些問題是現在才發生嗎當然這些問題長期都有但是因為這幾年包含COVID全球流行以及相關各國的供應鏈的部分事實上影響是真的越來越明顯"},{"start":4768.923,"end":4783.951,"text":"對啦 這些都是原因然後呢 112年有上百萬的高血脂這個患者使用的利普陀降膽固醇的這個藥缺貨那這個被藥師說是30年來最嚴重的那113年"},{"start":4787.433,"end":4812.071,"text":"5月我們的書藝也缺貨的非常嚴重那這麼久了我想這個過程已經好幾年了那部長 次長你會不會覺得這個過程會不會拖太久到現在才 其實我們這一次的藥事法以我自己個人來講這一次藥事法修法就是去年5月我們在書藝的這個遇到的這個挑戰前年我們遇到這個挑戰的時候我們就開始來做這個修法的草案你們準備了多久"},{"start":4815.345,"end":4839.126,"text":"从2024年5月我们整个在规划到现在中间还经过行政院要去做审议不过也跟我原报告刚刚您提到的降血脂药事实上我们非常多这一类的慢性病它不是只有单一个药品在供应它有非常多同成分同类型的药品我们也希望大家不要有药品的品牌的迷思它只是有类似的药品都是一样的这个问题你们提了很久那就是卡在行政院的意思吗"},{"start":4839.554,"end":4860.966,"text":"不是 我們其實這個東西為求周延我們過程中也要跟相關的學協會跟相關的團體在做討論對 因為我認為這個問題是非常嚴重的這個處理了一兩年的時間到現在我才看到成果這個不是成果 才開始要做這件事情那我覺得這個部分真的拖太久了我們也先感謝委員願意今天讓我們來做這個相關草案的審查"},{"start":4861.446,"end":4887.453,"text":"我也希望像我們那個在前陣子提的那個外送員專法這種速度我也希望我們執政行政院提出來版本盡快來通過當然我是支持的那我看到這個西醫這個醫療器材供應資訊平台我發現上次12月10號質詢到現在已經過了一個多月但恢復供應的藥品數目還是掛零"},{"start":4888.553,"end":4909.866,"text":"那最後還是更新在12月9號那一天那我關心的這兩個缺藥的品項其中屬於必要藥品的是胰臟酵素這個卡麗硝那平台顯示還要再等今年到第二季到4到6月才會恢復供應那衛福部建議的替代藥品是食藥署去年才核定的土耳其藥品"},{"start":4910.626,"end":4919.507,"text":"那另外供應外科醫師手術進手術前的那3M的乾式刷手藝是7月8號我們就公告缺貨到現在"},{"start":4920.717,"end":4947.358,"text":"要到今年的第一季才能恢復供貨那這跟你們要求的這個藥商必須在缺藥前六個月通報並且有六個月的庫準剛好相反你們並沒有達到這個要求跟委員稍微簡單的報告舉剛才講卡麗硝這個胰臟酵素的其實我們一月份已經進來300萬顆緊急的所以我們這比原來速度能夠提前第二部分其實刷手這邊其實傳統的刷手其實是濕式刷手"},{"start":4948.078,"end":4971.372,"text":"那在裡面刷刷刷可是因為有乾式刷手這種新的所以他們刷了他們手頭破皮你沒有看到嗎上次我跟你講的時候對 我了解可是因為它的效果我們還是以病人的安全性為最重要所以一定要刷得夠乾淨那所以這種過程傳統的跟現在的所以醫師醫療的那一部分希望還是有這樣刷手的"},{"start":4972.372,"end":4999.212,"text":"所以我們就是同意他我們目前是在專案的進口的一個徵求當中我們也希望能夠趕快盡快能夠達成這件事你預計什麼時候我想是近期在第一季以內應該是就可以完成我們期待了再跟委員補充這就是我們提到藥品韌性的部分所有的這一個醫療程序所需要的不論是藥品或衛材不能只有單一的供應所以像您剛剛所提到因為像早年我們進客房我是那個刷手藝的年代的"},{"start":4999.972,"end":5027.52,"text":"我們刷手藝年代之後後來變成乾式刷手還學了一段時間才有辦法在乾式刷手確保它真的有刷乾真的有把它消毒乾淨所以跟我們報告就是藥品韌性的部分事實上就像剛剛您提到的有些藥品不是只有單一個品牌只要是同成分同樣效果的藥品我們希望能夠多方的供應我們當然是希望效果是一樣但是它用出來的副作用不一樣所以我們當然希望說它用好一點醫生也很辛苦他整年刷在那邊"},{"start":5028.181,"end":5030.656,"text":"你認為他一直用那種舊的那種"},{"start":5031.619,"end":5058.85,"text":"對他會比較好嗎好啦 那下一題啦這個台美關稅議定後的這個我們上週拍板嘛那我們也付了很大的代價才使得美國下修對等關稅稅率為15%那其中學民藥跟原料等項目獲得美方這個承諾不苛徵對等關稅那這可以看出看成是符合美國鼓勵以學民藥"},{"start":5059.83,"end":5083.047,"text":"取代專利期這個原廠藥的政策方向那相較之下專利藥必須配合在每投資與價格調整承受關稅壓力比較大那請問市長先前衛福部評估有約有75項不可替代的專利期的藥品如抗癌 罕見疾病 慢性藥品這個價格可能會大漲或者是缺藥"},{"start":5084.088,"end":5105.476,"text":"那現在關稅訂了那有沒有考慮過有沒有試算過這個要增加多少這個健保的支出報告委員其實因為這些藥品我們過去其實藥品各國之間他其實上基本上就沒有各個關稅的問題然後這次我們也確定說他就是現在他沒有談的是零關他是談起來是零關稅那我們其實所以你說你的意思是說他現在這些專利藥品都是零關稅對"},{"start":5107.554,"end":5126.428,"text":"藥品本來就零關稅那這些藥品它只要在生產國它價格沒有漲起來我們大概就是這個價格那另外的話我們當然在健保這邊為什麼去年有準備一個特殊就是因應這個談判我們做了一個預算的準備就是說假設真的有因為這個原因的變動而導致藥品的價格上升的話那我們健保在共理會這邊會做一些調整"},{"start":5127.352,"end":5152.993,"text":"那我再請問一下 衛福部有沒有什麼引導性的政策可以協助我國製藥廠的這個生技產業這個發展及出口 有沒有提過有 非常感謝委員 其實就像剛剛委員提到的我們國內事實上有非常好的這個我看到你們編列了4年240億的這個新興計畫 藥品任性計畫這個也希望委員可以有機會在大院趕快審那這裡面事實上我們有非常多第一個是我們盤點出不論是在相關的藥品"},{"start":5154.153,"end":5178.319,"text":"關鍵藥品或者是有一些合一藥品它事實上我們都有國內能夠自己來製成的潛力那過去長期依賴其他國家這些學名藥我發現我們台灣一個問題就是說當然它還是相信原廠的那學名藥我們其實在可以鼓勵我們我們台灣本地的藥廠能夠自己來生產那當然我希望我們這個藥能夠做一些替代藥品這樣就不用多要有仰賴進口"},{"start":5178.979,"end":5206.49,"text":"也對 其實我們有事實上我自己都常常說我不會把它叫做替代藥品事實上這些都是合法而且都是在第一線可以使用的藥品那所以說國內事實上過去有時候市場上講到說某一個國外的藥品不要再生產了等等事實上國內大概都類似的同樣成分的藥品都有相近十種以上本來供應就是穩定的所以這邊也是謝謝委員這邊關心這件事情我們事實上都長期能夠跟民眾這邊溝通說事實上它都是同成分藥品那同成分藥品"},{"start":5207.23,"end":5231.527,"text":"符合GMP的藥品都是能夠有一定一樣的效果的藥品另外我們這個健保這個每年實際支出藥費都超過目標那超出的這個價差會成為下一年度這個藥價調整的額度也就是說下一個年度把前一個年度的這個超出預算部分砍回來砍到藥商這個不符合成本那一直退出台灣的市場那當然這個"},{"start":5234.269,"end":5255.828,"text":"問題有很多啦有問題有很多那我發現就是說我們台灣每年丟棄的這個藥品大概有193公噸那將近5億顆那我們衛福部有沒有針對這個問題有沒有要做一個檢討的改善的一個措施其實一直以來我們都在宣導民眾就是他能夠但是效果不好嘛就是因為效果不好我現在就問說你們有沒有想過"},{"start":5256.989,"end":5278.758,"text":"有沒有更好更有效的方式我們當然不是一直要提升藥價但是我們要減少這個支出對不對 不要浪費在相關的藥品規範當然衛福部這邊我們能規範的是第一線醫師的處方能夠照標準減少重複用藥所以在健保雲端藥力裡面他能夠查到重複用藥的問題避免開立重複的藥品給民眾"},{"start":5279.838,"end":5307.454,"text":"那我們也其實推動了相關的整合門診有的時候老人家他要看好幾個科我就同樣整合起來讓他避免藥品的重複但是也希望民眾這邊他去慢性的領養他要乖乖的吃啦我再請問一下我們急診 庸篩的問題越來越嚴重那真正的原因並非重症的這個病患加重而輕症的比率過高那當然也增加了我們的醫療的這個負擔那影響重症患者的處置的一個效率"},{"start":5308.314,"end":5333.276,"text":"那有沒有考慮過目前中醫在急診體系裡面完全沒有角色那是不是當然中醫工會當然有希望爭取說中醫負責急診後段的這個輕症醫療特別適用在這個我們減傷第四級第五級常見的症狀如頭痛這個肌筋膜緊繃暈眩腸胃不適等等的這些症狀風險較低的這種症狀"},{"start":5335.778,"end":5351.349,"text":"那不需急救設備的這種而中醫針灸推拿穴位的處置方式比較安全那有沒有想過這個部分呢我們衛福部有沒有在做這個規劃其實我們一直都希望我其實也很尊重民眾的就醫習慣"},{"start":5352.21,"end":5381.13,"text":"那台湾当然因为在中医这边有一些特殊不同的跟其他国家不同的处置方式那我们也知道说很多民众有这样的信任所以我们也很感谢大家其实愿意提供这样的服务那当然在过年期间如果说在廉价期间我们中医诊所愿意开诊的话那我们也非常感谢好啊那你们有没有办法做一个规划你们卫福部回去可以做过一个规划吗我们可以规划我们会跟相关学习会讨论那你什么你给我一个报告好不好书面报告好是好谢谢好多久啊多久"},{"start":5381.778,"end":5389.942,"text":"委員我們一個月給您報告好不好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請廖偉祥召委來做選擇謝謝主席那請次長跟署長來 次長 署長跟江署長委員長"},{"start":5410.64,"end":5437.011,"text":"次長早 署長早我想要首先想要先請問一下次長署長請教一下這個食藥署在這幾年在推動這個藥品仿單電子化及西藥非處方簽的這個非處方藥仿單外合格式及規範想要請教一下這個次長或署長看誰回答都可以你們認為目前的推動成效怎麼樣"},{"start":5438.251,"end":5458.872,"text":"跟委員這邊做報告對藥品的所謂的仿單的電子化的部分目前只有250個藥品左右他們是主動的一部分是OTC的用藥一部分是其實是住院的徵記的用藥因為那個都是醫療院所用的那總共有多少其實是非常非常多的所以成效算是沒有到"},{"start":5459.512,"end":5483.031,"text":"很普及 還沒有到很普及所以這件事情其實我在署內積極推動說我們先做第一步所有的電子仿單要電子化之前其實要做格式化所以格式化的目的所有有兩個第一個在未來要轉成電子化的過程當中其實有非常非常多stakeholder我們利害關係者裡面我們最近其實是跟印刷業者在談這件事情"},{"start":5483.251,"end":5497.661,"text":"然後第二件事情是這個結構化訪單之後呢以後才有機會能夠轉換這轉換的過程中我們會積極的去規劃我們預計是今年的年底所有結構化能夠達成好 那請問一下署長這個目的是什麼"},{"start":5498.562,"end":5525.272,"text":"而我們其實目的呢是希望讓大家都知道資訊用藥的時候的相關的資訊嘛 是的簡單來講今天問這個題目就是要讓大家知道其實很多的藥你在使用的時候你不知道所有的內容細節甚至不確定完全知道這個有什麼副作用嘛 對不對所以我覺得資訊的可及性喔還不等於資訊的對於資訊的理解啦所以我本期也有接收到一些"},{"start":5526.793,"end":5540.346,"text":"食物上第一線的回饋特別是在兒童精神科的複雜情況下其實單靠家長如果要自行查閱這個訪單我想他也沒有辦法足以應對所有的狀況"},{"start":5541.627,"end":5570.917,"text":"所以本席在這裡想要講的事情說他其實就是相對來講他凸顯了這個醫病共享決策這件事情的重要性那尤其是兩位都是醫生其實你們也知道有時候開藥有時候我們去看醫生一開藥一整包這麼多藥品然後由藥劑師去包裝調劑包裝那如果醫生沒有足夠的時間對病人說清楚每一個藥的副作用病人也不一定可以真的清楚他回去之後吃了什麼可能導致他副作用"},{"start":5571.537,"end":5600.189,"text":"所以本席有觀察到在食物上的問題呢譬如說在癌症啊或是其他的重症上面這幾年衛福部有推行所謂的醫病共享決策嘛對不對那這個共享決策當然就是醫這個人為與病人為中心的在整個臨床的醫療執行過程中一個很充足的溝通那所以其實這個對於病人或家屬不論在生理上或心理上其實都有很高的效益喔那但是我有觀察到"},{"start":5601.941,"end":5609.937,"text":"謝謝委員肯定我們對沒錯我覺得這是這個是對的事情我們當然肯定可是我要告訴你們說我也有觀察到在兒童醫療的部分"},{"start":5611.109,"end":5628.478,"text":"其實因為兒童病人的知識有限所以他當然必須依賴這個監護人或家長但是呢在這個ADHD的這個病症上面因為台灣在教育體系裡面常常因為學校的輔導功能可能還不夠或者專業知識不夠甚至有時候會將篩檢的工具誤用為診斷的依據所以"},{"start":5633.661,"end":5657.512,"text":"有一些狀況學童不見得是因為ADHD但是在沒有生就原因之前可能就被學校建議家長送醫那如果在第一線沒有足夠的溝通或者是有疏失的情況之下或者是沒有很深入的去了解真的仔細的去檢查的時候因為有時候量很大就可能會直接用藥那這裡就會有個問題囉"},{"start":5659.434,"end":5676.501,"text":"因為ADHD的藥物包含有利他能和專絲達那這兩種都是三級的管制藥品那仿單上明確而仿單上要明確載明如果於藥品上市後曾有出現自殺念頭或意圖自殺的不良反應的通報"},{"start":5678.118,"end":5701.228,"text":"這是我聽到第一線的家長還有甚至是一些社工一些這個藥師在反映的狀況所以我就想要跟署長和次長講一下這件事情再來就是說我想要請問一下次長在食藥署跟健保署最近有沒有統計近年來關於利他能跟專施打在兒童族群的處方量的變化以及相關不良反應的通報次的數量請問有沒有"},{"start":5702.688,"end":5729.447,"text":"部長反應我等一下請同仁這邊幫我們查一下我先跟委員報告一下事實上ADHD它是有一定的盛行率我們也相信說我們第一線的兒新的醫師事實上能夠基於他們的專業來做出比較適當的診斷當然我們也了解過去在學校端有些其實也必須跟委員報告就是說有些ADHD的孩子他事實上受困於他的症狀他反而在學校是會被霸凌的"},{"start":5729.827,"end":5746.177,"text":"所以這一邊其實我們對於這樣的孩子不論是他用藥或者是沒有用藥或者相關孩子他有自殺或相關的念頭這個部分本來就是要通報的那至於是不是藥品那要後端去做一些相關的分析這不是都有通報過嗎如果有這種只要是自殺是一定都要通報那是另外我們在自殺防治通報"},{"start":5746.857,"end":5770.966,"text":"因為我要跟市長和署長說其實包含之前也有看到相關案例他可能小朋友因為長期沒有可能親耳垢啦還是有一些其他的狀況導致他的這個狀態讓人家誤判以為他是ADHD你知道有這種狀況因為我想ADHD的診斷當然我們是我們是尊重所有人是醫師最終的專業但是我要說其實第一線醫生不要說醫生 家長"},{"start":5771.966,"end":5800.622,"text":"或者是这种社工药师其实都有反映这样的状况委员我在补充一个资讯其实我们也非常感谢很多相关的专业人士来相关做协助所以之前像陈景洪医师他们有一个心动家族那我认为他的那个模式很好他甚至那个模式到东南亚去做一些宣导事实上这个他就是把家长老师然后还有他的医疗团队全部都作为同一个群组那这样子的话因为有的时候孩子的症状到底是疾病导致还是他的心理导致市长我就是要跟你说的就是这个事情"},{"start":5800.822,"end":5828.829,"text":"其實在開這樣子的藥品的時候或者是在做這樣子的診斷的時候當然我們就是希望說是不是可以有標準化的流程那也確保說家長監護人被充分告知所有潛在的重大副作用那當然有各個團體或者各個關鍵的角色去看這個小朋友的狀況這當然是我們覺得是最好一定要做到的嘛所以這個部分就是想要跟次長說尤其在診斷這個事情上面是不是可以加強推廣所謂的醫病共享的決策"},{"start":5829.409,"end":5854.634,"text":"然後並且將這個兒童ADHD的診斷跟治療列為這個醫病共享決策的優先推動項目之一也就是說這個醫師在開藥前是不是應該與家長甚至學校的教師可以更多的討論學童的各個面向避免直接開藥因為他可能會因為他開了這些藥的時候可能至少也要讓這些陪同的家長監護人老師或社工等等要很清楚的知道這個藥品的副作用"},{"start":5855.434,"end":5879.802,"text":"我覺得這部分是我想要強調的謝謝委員關心其實相關的各種疾病或者是各種用藥我們都是希望能夠在一個充分的醫病共享決策那事實上ADHD這個疾病過去長期以來它有很多人對它的這個我覺得有一些誤解那還是得強調就是它事實上目前在精神科尤其在兒心專科醫師這邊已經非常確定這些孩子如果是確診的孩子他是需要適當的治療的"},{"start":5881.182,"end":5907.261,"text":"但是这个过程中其实刚刚您所提到的有些时候是家长或者是老师我们也担心因为孩子这个疾病家长或老师他反而会把孩子其他的行为通通都归咎于这个疾病所以这里面我们希望说不要有这种误解当然中间的沟通家长或者是老师这边愿意积极主动的来陪同孩子到相关的儿心医师这边就医做出充分的沟通我们非常支持"},{"start":5907.301,"end":5933.93,"text":"次長因為這個時間的關係我希望請你們可以給本席一個這個檢討書面報告就是有關於這個目前的現在的精進作為或是目前的作為的狀況你們發現的問題我們把ADHD相關的一些我們也要把這個第一線剛剛的所有不管是家長或者是剛剛我說過社工啊要是他們發現的狀況在第一線的狀況我在這邊也必須告訴我們次長和署長有這個狀況請你們去關注然後給本席一個這樣子相關的報告"},{"start":5934.77,"end":5963.544,"text":"那再來我進入第二題就是其實本席也是看到衛福部在114年有推動所謂兒童醫療優化政策那其中有新設的口腔親善之家的專案那也強調所謂早期介入那固定醫療窗口那我覺得這是一個利益良善的政策然而這個標榜不漏接每一位兒童的計畫其實在起跑點上有漏掉一些需要國家保護的一群人"},{"start":5964.537,"end":5987.868,"text":"比如說這個受虐兒少啦性侵受害婦女之子女啦以及目前在安置機構中的弱勢童這個是這個有關於參與這個計畫相關的醫生告訴我的那目前的政策架構當然是建立顯然是建立在有家長帶領就醫的理想假設上面但是實務上我們有看到這個所謂安置機構的兒童他的這個舉齒的風險其實是極高那醫療的可進性卻極低"},{"start":5993.37,"end":6016.826,"text":"這個次長這群孩子在的家長在實質上喔就是我國的政府機關喔那針對這些所謂機構的兒童啦有沒有辦法為什麼沒有在第一時間被納入這個專案的優先保障的對象請教一下次長喔那當一個盡責的家長要為孩子安排這個牙齒圖佛啦會注意孩子的飲食啦我們的政府作為安安置兒少的法定家長"},{"start":6017.766,"end":6038.191,"text":"應該不能不聞不問吧所以我們希望這個社家屬為監護人那這個口腔健康師作為健康管理者這兩個單位應該要有更多的橫向聯繫然後而且要主動把這些小朋友納入這個範圍裡面我想委員這個部分我們在口腔師尤其是我們第一線的醫療人員這邊我們當然他不太可能自己去"},{"start":6039.291,"end":6062.865,"text":"自己去取得您剛剛所說的這些資訊受保護的弱勢族群的資料啦所以說資訊受保護的弱勢族群這邊的口腔健康的需求是不是我們之後如果說有相關的這一些團我們這邊有這樣的需求是不是我們有一個比較好的管道他提出來我們就來協助提供所以我現在就是希望你們去把這件事情做好因為你們這個東西你們有這個計畫可是實際上在第一線包含在地方上"},{"start":6063.365,"end":6091.065,"text":"其实都没有落实这个所谓资讯的连接而且让他们可以主动这些医师也愿意去主动去访试这些小朋友我们可以去访试不过这个资讯必须要从高风险这边就是愿意之后资讯出来我跟你讲这是有的你们应该跟地方政府包含社会局去沟通因为很多很多像我们第一线他们现在有在做这个计划的他们是找不满的你有10%要找这些孩童但是你找不满他们找不到不知道哪里找"},{"start":6091.886,"end":6109.127,"text":"那這些人他本來也不會主動來來看啊因為沒有人帶他來看啊甚至這個第一線醫師有反應說其實如果這個東西有做好的話甚至我們很多兒女包含之前的凱凱案可能很早就發現說他有異樣他去檢查牙齒的時候就會發現說可能有撞掉啊有發生什麼狀況其實這都是"},{"start":6111.129,"end":6133.041,"text":"一個很重要的點我在這裡一定要提供給我們我想這個中間的連結我們會盡量鼓勵就是說地方的這個尤其是社政這一邊他們如果有這樣的需求能夠來我想請問一下你們現在到底有沒有把這些兒童放到這裡面我們的高危險個案家庭訪視服務是有的但是就是這邊所提到哪些是高危險個案的訪視服務這個部分必須要由社政這邊提過來"},{"start":6134.442,"end":6158.451,"text":"對 你們要去聯繫吧這個東西 既然你們的責任因為你們有這個計畫其實他們橫向的聯繫是不清楚的其實他們也有說你們這個所謂的高風險到底定義在哪裡我們社會政這邊要互相溝通一下好了好不好對 可不可以盡速的給本席這個東西應該很快你們兩個禮拜內可不可以提供給本席辦公室我們再回去我們跟社政那邊對一下社政這邊他們到底是哪些所以委員這邊如果有相關的哪幾個"},{"start":6159.656,"end":6167.062,"text":"我們剛剛說機構的其實是被排在外面的沒有排在外面其實機構如果有需求我們當然一定提供我們是可以到你們回去趕快競速"},{"start":6167.987,"end":6196.361,"text":"研擬完之後給本席辦公室我們把我們目前有的方案提供給委員好不好因為他們第一線就是沒有辦法知道到底是誰而且找不到我都是第一線的聲音告訴你的這個我們也非常需要地方的社會局可以提供不是社會局的問題是有做這個計畫的醫療單位因為醫療單位他需要知道我要去跟誰服務所以你們現在就會辨識他覺得說好像是衛福部這邊需求端要讓我們所以我們現在反映給你我們再把這個計畫給委員了解好不好好謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":6197.864,"end":6205.547,"text":"好 謝謝委員會在這邊宣告 請回我們蘇青瓊委員選擇結束之後休息十分鐘謝謝接下來請蘇青瓊委員謝謝我們主席尊敬的縣長他叫次長他叫江署長江署長"},{"start":6232.344,"end":6253.582,"text":"市長辛苦了來 我先問一個問題我們現在台灣一年的藥費就包括健保給付的還有我們說2800億左右是有沒有包括OTC的藥有一部分如果是健保給付的話健康食品沒有健康食品沒有"},{"start":6254.139,"end":6277.479,"text":"健康食品一年有多少規模那規模幾乎比藥品還多保健相關1500億保健相關應該是1500億以上1500億對 健康食品少但保健相關的食品我們目前努力在全面希望能夠進入納管然後以及對於它的廣告以及各項的所謂的潛在的可行的功效等等我們會目前持續在規劃當中"},{"start":6278.88,"end":6298.881,"text":"所以現在的藥品規模如果包括健保醫療用的加上OTC的 加上保健食品的那這樣一年應該要有4000多億差不多吧 多少你也不知道食藥署長你搞不清楚應該有問一下經濟部的同仁一下經濟部都亂講"},{"start":6304.667,"end":6326.694,"text":"現在美國的保健食品機關稅要歸零現在看起來是要歸零那些魚油什麼都全部大進來了我們現在健保要一年2800億左右那真的台灣生產的我記得市長才1200億喔"},{"start":6328.925,"end":6345.134,"text":"我們自己國內的藥品事實上它品項是多但是它其實因為都比較是屬於不是非常昂貴的藥品所以它的健保給付或者是相關的這個規模來講是比較少一點所以你現在修改藥師網你的目的就是"},{"start":6346.115,"end":6367.054,"text":"讓我們這裡的學民藥Generic的友情讓他保護要做原料藥也要保護讓我們台灣有韌性醫療你們今天目的是要這樣嗎今天這是確定就是說在某些緊急狀況之下後藥品缺乏的時候我們那個供應韌性要能夠穩定那另外還有一個計畫也希望大院可以支持就是我們的藥品韌性計畫"},{"start":6368.075,"end":6377.851,"text":"那保温就是针对国产药品国产原料药好那我们去辅导有些药品让他尽量逐渐的走向自己国产自己做不用依靠进口药品"},{"start":6378.511,"end":6397.649,"text":"那這是當然是我們的理想你知道我們這個國產的學民藥或者國產藥廠我是覺得他們很可憐三百幾斤然後產值那麼低然後一天到晚要購我看最近就有八十幾件"},{"start":6398.83,"end":6419.098,"text":"國外原廠來告台灣的侵害專利你們食藥署是在輔導還是保護你們有盡到責任嗎還是幫他去試報告委員就算這個部分其實特別提到所謂的專利侵害的一些訴訟我們有看到有八十件"},{"start":6419.938,"end":6445.518,"text":"那这些高的药费其实很多都是原来是原厂的原厂用很多很多的方式去审核延长一直延长它的专利所以我们其实在这个过程中我们前一阵子也跟特别有提到跟智慧产权局我们必须食药署跟智慧产权局去协作把这件事能够厘清能够透过我们的所谓的专利能够揭露之后让上市前的专利厘清"},{"start":6446.218,"end":6466.706,"text":"那也避免說是很漫長的所以我們做了一件事情叫做依法暫停12個月釐清專利的爭議能夠比照國際跟其他國家的專利連結的制度這個12個月呢讓他專利挑戰跟迴避成功的時候我們應該要再給他鼓勵因為現在 因為現在你剛才不是說教學在教車怎麼在說不過今天 今天 哎呀 愛哲 愛哲因為原廠要像一個月了現在又蓋一年了 又合作費"},{"start":6474.952,"end":6483.461,"text":"那個靠心 戒律阻止斷制跟這樣截止之後 夾社會就必須再一個新的再保護12年 15年我們經濟不好 不能做什麼事情"},{"start":6488.165,"end":6505.576,"text":"沒在煽情 再過了15年 因為我們這裡有錢也沒有機會他沒有心得藥 他就兩三種藥併在一起現在有三種藥 利尿劑也併進去兩三種藥併成一個 又一個心得藥又出來又是給你申請專利 又是10年 又是12年 又是15年"},{"start":6507.117,"end":6528.772,"text":"所以针对这一点我们其实我们有看到问题有看到问题你们解决有有有我们同时把这件事情跟经济部这边的我们智慧产产局这边能够做对接这件事情其实为了整体药物的韧性以对国内能够充满他们的支持之后药物韧性下来所以里面我们持续在做当中"},{"start":6529.893,"end":6534.579,"text":"保護 保護不好聽啦扶植我們的國產藥廠讓他們能夠這樣三八幾天看能不能直接從八八天安得好啊有的有藥症就不要生產生產就大家都死嘛大家都產殖一點點啊市長"},{"start":6546.674,"end":6572.764,"text":"我們盡量調整可是也報告委員我們也希望說至少要有幾家藥廠都有在生產某一個藥品或者是幾家藥廠都有能力生產某一種藥品這樣一旦某一家藥廠出問題我們可以協調其他藥廠來供應製造再來也跟委員報告就是說有些已經過專利期很久的其實有些已經過專利期很久的我們自己國產的藥廠是有能力生產的因為它已經沒有專利的問題了可是過去沒有相關的誘因它大家都全部依賴進口"},{"start":6573.744,"end":6591.553,"text":"所以我們現在就我們剛剛講那個藥品韌性計畫就是希望我們把它盤點之後來協助有國家的力量經濟部有一部分的預算120億在那邊要來協助這些藥廠自己生產還有還有我們前一陣子我們署長發下豪語說要讓我們這個國產的抗癌藥 標靶藥讓他們可以給我們扶持說讓他們的自戰力可以更高現在是怎麼樣 我看沒什麼事情"},{"start":6600.746,"end":6615.327,"text":"我这个部分的第一个叫生物相似用药生物相似用药生物相似的用药那以及在国内的药品癌症的药品我们也持续有在支持他们有嘛有增加吧"},{"start":6615.928,"end":6623.273,"text":"對 我們持續在審查的速度以及輔導上面在做我看你現在修藥是法你今天在那裡你叫他們定期申報本來就是申請至現在 以前叫做報備現在就要申請申請現在生產端跟使用端是醫院醫院用藥的自由度很高醫師大家都很聰明用他想用的 現在"},{"start":6639.162,"end":6663.269,"text":"申報 說你強制申報 一個月兩個月一劑等等那你現在說申報 那個價量一定會不服啊市長他們那個固定通報是說他假設半年內他有斷藥的問題他要讓我們知道那有些甚至依賴量很大的他提早讓我們曉得這樣我們才有辦法去協調其他的藥廠趕快供應或者是說我們有什麼方式來協助整個市場能夠變得更穩定"},{"start":6664.494,"end":6690.326,"text":"所以你們要捱的就是這個議案有兩三間在做也有一間出問題 跟電梯一樣 其他人可以對 因為我們的郵箱有這個能力郵箱有能力過去不叫人看檔所以現在希望我們不論是這次修法事實上是來強備完備他的法源另外那個藥品任性就是來做經濟上的優點他申報你又要給他罰則我是覺得一開始是要扶植"},{"start":6691.346,"end":6710.952,"text":"你賣政府就花了錢 要怕死人有錢有夠可憐的啊 我不針對哪一家但是我覺得我們國產大家都慘淡輕盈那進口進來的天災地變啊 颱風等等或是打仗啊等等 要我當那是很嚴重的事情不可抗力因素我們是不會去做懲罰的"},{"start":6712.392,"end":6733.037,"text":"對 就是說有時候顏料最後一個就是顏料要進來有時候顏料進不來所以我們台灣自己開發顏料我了解的好幾家做顏料的藥廠他們做出來的顏料成本太高所以反而都是銷到美國去然後我們再去印度買買那個顏料比較便宜的"},{"start":6734.093,"end":6750.426,"text":"我昨天發現我去查日本的Denonica的藥它的原料都從印度跟中國進這是很可怕的事情耶全世界大概60%都是從中國跟印度進口所以我們各國也都在希望能夠強化自己國家的藥品韌性"},{"start":6751.167,"end":6768.88,"text":"然後我們自己原廠藥這邊我們自己健保我們正在討論就是說我們要有一些鼓勵的機制因為我們過去是我們如果是使用本土的藥我們會有一些脊膚上面的誘因那如果說這個藥廠用自己的本土藥品他又用我們自己本土的原料藥我們現在原料藥我們現在正在規劃這邊能夠所以你原料藥的鼓勵是一個"},{"start":6769.66,"end":6786.172,"text":"那自己藥廠是做Generic的藥你也是要鼓勵這健保就要把他寬鬆一下健保局有這個想法嗎還是健保局都想要把他伺候死這樣那不可以這樣進去市長 你在管的所以這邊都共同來處理他們愛這樣好 最後一個問題因為我時間超過了謝謝主席讓我多講30秒"},{"start":6794.522,"end":6813.835,"text":"我們現在在做疫苗 孩子做疫苗是有一個疫苗基金嘛小孩子可以打我們的公費疫苗有疫苗基金啊沒有啊 如果大人的 大人的就歸到要害基金去了是不是疫苗這邊"},{"start":6816.26,"end":6833.896,"text":"疫苗受害是 疫苗的話疫苗有另外的疫苗它另外有一個它的那個不良反應的基金那邊要害救濟是另外這邊上次COVID-19那些人有的都去申請有的 我之前COVID-19住在家住住的產生問題很多很多很多"},{"start":6835.658,"end":6864.519,"text":"然後這些他們其實好像是藥癌基金在審那是疫苗基金疫苗那邊是疫苗基金嗎那為什麼對小孩子的補償是那麼的寬鬆對成人的這個補償是那麼樣的嚴格這個我們就我的了解應該是委員會裡面的委員他們會去找說實在因為我自己也參與過他在委員會裡面的各不同的這個專科醫師的專家他要去找reference回來去做相關的證明然後再來做一些採取啦"},{"start":6865.305,"end":6876.256,"text":"沒有就是說他的補償我沒講補償不要講賠償補償就是緩慢然後我看起來是很GY然後呢賠償的補償的金額有這麼的少那是你在賺的 市長"},{"start":6881.14,"end":6903.514,"text":"如果是疫苗的話那應該是CDC那邊應該是裝刺不過真共委員報告說這邊其實我們尊重整個委員會審查的這些專家啦有些很多像兒科很多都是兒科的大前輩那有一些疫苗的部分那如果是非常罕見的大概他們會找一些data來證明那如果是常見的就用援引過去的一些這個所謂的補償的方式"},{"start":6904.278,"end":6921.774,"text":"好 那謝謝就是本土藥廠這邊真的是要好好的用心不要跟他滑折從頭到尾沒有看到鼓勵不是拿著棒子要敲人家那也真的拜託委員希望大院能夠趕快來審我們那個藥物任性的那個新興計畫好 謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":6933.895,"end":6934.861,"text":"好 我們現在休息十分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":7804.563,"end":7808.967,"text":"我們繼續開會 下一位我們請林書偉委員發言林委員請好 謝謝主席我是不是好 先請我們次長有請次長"},{"start":7835.441,"end":7844.863,"text":"委員長 次長早我上個禮拜質詢就是上週五上個"},{"start":7846.98,"end":7875.763,"text":"就是上上禮拜吧上上禮拜這個中榮發生廠商進手術室帶刀事件那你們調查報告應該已經出來了你可不可以稍微簡單說一下報告委員其實台中榮總這一邊台中榮總他們在1月15給我們的調查結果就是確認醫師有違規讓廠商進入手術室的管制區域那目前中榮是給予行政懲處我現在問你是他有沒有帶刀"},{"start":7877.219,"end":7895.74,"text":"有没有带医师操刀操作手术我们在目前他对外的那个资讯看起来是有一些疑虑那但是中融给你们的报告你们就全部都没有报告委员今天我们包含医师师已经直接要到台中融总区一起进行调查你们医师师师长啊呃"},{"start":7898.868,"end":7915.035,"text":"可能是有失公允他在上個禮拜五1月16他說中榮已經提出調查報告確認有三名醫師未依規定完成報備程序違規放行草上進入手術室他直接已經定義你們的司長劉悅平"},{"start":7916.596,"end":7917.797,"text":"他直接說 OK"},{"start":7932.631,"end":7946.907,"text":"劉悅平這樣說是根據中榮報告就算了但是人家媒體接著問你劉悅平說這個懲處是不是過輕因為只有申戒一次"},{"start":7947.688,"end":7964.859,"text":"然後你們劉悅平答覆 中榮對於三名涉案醫師各寄生借一次屬人事處分 醫生都是資優生對醫師來說 被寄生借是很丟臉的事情尤其是科部主管 影響其實不小"},{"start":7967.501,"end":7978.133,"text":"你那個劉悅平 劉司長沒有客觀公正沒有扮演起目的事業主管機關的職責然後說這樣的處分已經是影響很大了報告委員其實我們現在"},{"start":7982.338,"end":8000.404,"text":"現在最近現在最新的資訊也跟委員這邊做個報告就是說部長這邊已經先要求健保署去調查因為如果這個過程中牽涉到這個醫師這一邊的健保申請那如果不是醫師自己親自做這樣的相關執行手術的動作的話那健保這邊會有一些相關的追回跟懲處"},{"start":8001.124,"end":8021.278,"text":"你知道嗎 次長你這樣子輕輕的講過去 但是我要告訴你啊你們上個禮拜五中榮報告丟出來你們劉悅平這樣講以後人家就有影像已經在媒體揭露了你們的影像看起來大家都覺得說"},{"start":8023.12,"end":8050.134,"text":"沒有預期會有人敢檢舉所以你們當時就認為說大概沒有具體證據下本來是要持續否認後來人家把影像丟到媒體曝光以後然後相關說法才隨著影像逐步出現而被迫修正就像擠牙膏一般被動而且消極看起來就是這樣子 來"},{"start":8052.731,"end":8079.757,"text":"知新聞講的這些外科神經外科主任鄭文玉不但沒有穿著手術服沒有戴滅菌手套雙手還抱在胸前而直刀的竟然就是這個被爆料的陳姓一財傷所以我就說嘛大家都知道只有衛福部不知道還有躺在那裡的病人不知道人家檢舉了"},{"start":8083.059,"end":8102.197,"text":"還繼續隱瞞 如果影片沒有出來 劉悅平還繼續幫中榮幫醫生袒護所以人家質疑你 劉悅平依依相護啊人家質疑你們並沒有解決問題 從制度面去好好"},{"start":8103.237,"end":8126.792,"text":"這個整頓的決心啊報告委員其實部長也提到了就是說半年內我們會提出相關的這一個共同的一個指引除了指引以外部長還指導你們還要做什麼包含就剛剛提到的這邊第一個是健保這邊去做調查第二個部分就是說如果這邊有違反相關的法律的話那全部都要依照法律來做調查僅此於此嗎現在的法律規定足夠嗎"},{"start":8131.786,"end":8148.507,"text":"我已經質詢過他了醫師法第28條密醫行為是有刑責的他們都不在乎欸有1月7號我們含送房間裡面的大象大家都看得一清二楚醫界也有人出來說護理界有人出來說"},{"start":8149.788,"end":8174.339,"text":"醫財界有人出來說 連這個醫院都有人出來說大家都知道 看得一清二楚房間裡面的大象 現在你們告訴我們說訂指引 立委給他們指引過立委跟他們說第一要件是什麼因為現場在座的參與的 每個人都是共同炸七飯共同炸七飯檢舉的人也有刑責"},{"start":8176.265,"end":8204.452,"text":"檢舉的人 具體的人 具名的人 也有刑責所以我已經講了法律就不怕 你頂指引要從下 指引不夠所以要頂這個吹哨者保護的機制要讓吹哨者可以從刑事責任裡面豁免出去所以你去頂相關指引要配套配套就是要有吹哨者保護的機制而你們在這裡"},{"start":8207.054,"end":8234.328,"text":"聽你們一直在講 定指引 定指引這樣沒有檢舉就沒事了現在是怎樣 人力短缺所以都叫醫材上去帶刀那個不是人力短缺的問題那是長期以來那個其實這樣講就是說有一些比較特殊新的醫材我們也理解他可能在醫師這邊操作上需要一些協助但是我們還是要再一次澄清廠商不可以站到table上去在病人身上執行相關的業務"},{"start":8237.53,"end":8255.797,"text":"那你告訴我你覺得哪些帶刀的科別集中在哪些科別這些科別目前來講哪些科別我們包含這次神經外科我們接下來可能還包含骨科等等這些我們都要進行一些調查眼科有沒有委員這邊有相關的資訊的話"},{"start":8262.17,"end":8289.255,"text":"怎麼會這樣子呢你去看我的YouTube人家都來留言啦所以哪些醫材因為器械很新甚至醫材的業務帶刀操作的比你們的醫生還要更賢手手術做的可能也可能更好就算這樣也不行也不亞裔就算這樣也不行你知道嗎他再厲害都不行那我現在要告訴你你們的醫生不用精進嗎新的手術刀法不用精進嗎你新的醫材不用練習嗎"},{"start":8290.655,"end":8300.341,"text":"那誰要當這個獸數的實驗的人其實相關的某些程序事實上有的是用模具可以事先做一些處理啦那當然不是全部啦你們有規範嗎有規範嗎"},{"start":8304.4,"end":8322.893,"text":"大排的醫生 新的 小的 細節 他們也不要餓啊要在這裡叫醫材上來做這種簡單的沒有檢舉就沒事檢舉之後 醫生都說我自己做的現場大家都共同炸七飯 不敢出來那你的吹哨者保護機制在哪裡"},{"start":8324.324,"end":8343.543,"text":"我記得其實去年吹哨者相關的法規已經過了刑責他沒有包含這個啦免刑責你告訴我吹哨者保護機制去年的法律哪一條可以適用哪一條我因為其實現在在調查裡面我們是沒有去追究到底是誰來提供這些影片啦"},{"start":8345.393,"end":8359.868,"text":"你的腦袋轉不過去當事人如果知道他就馬上去提告馬上都是共同詐欺犯而且一年以上的是完全不能交保的不能緩刑的非坐牢不可的"},{"start":8361.178,"end":8387.428,"text":"這很重的罪耶但是就很多人還在做啊因為沒在怕啊大家都涉案在裡面欸 奇怪人家麻醉科醫師護理師跟他沒有相關 他也沒拿到錢但是已經被迫要參與在裡面共同詐欺我們不會認定他們有這樣的行為啦那不是你不認定 刑法的認定主責機關是你嗎你是檢察官嗎 你是法官嗎"},{"start":8388.989,"end":8411.551,"text":"共同詐欺 這個就是共同詐欺 構成要件就是這樣子而且以中融為例 2017年他們院內第三次手術室管理會議中就已經明確的決議 開會已經決定絕對禁止廠商刷手跟刀或碰觸病人傷口及身體 而且絕對禁止手術進行"},{"start":8412.648,"end":8416.311,"text":"由這個業務來帶刀這種規範在中榮2017年就訂了內容很明確那為什麼2023年還發生這麼離譜的事這件事情我們請中榮的院長這要趕快去查清楚所以次長"},{"start":8429.059,"end":8443.746,"text":"這個不是規定的問題嘛不是有沒有規定的問題是制度內執行還有內部管理失靈還有長期中央主管機關放任不查所以這個問題是"},{"start":8445.729,"end":8461.494,"text":"醫院本身的管理和內控機制都沒有發揮作用啊中央主管機關你未來到底要怎麼監督和介入啊難道只能停留在繼續被動的等醫院回報相信醫師自律嗎你們的劉悅平就是這樣子"},{"start":8462.794,"end":8487.236,"text":"土法不足以自行 有行者的都沒在怕所以這不是法治面而已 這有執行面困難的地方你們劉悅平講這個話 就是一一相互所以更令人憂心的是 劉悅平還可以講說醫生從小到大都是資優生 被寄生界很丟臉當前提"},{"start":8488.317,"end":8507.569,"text":"你就形同玉色了醫生群體不會也不可能發生違法行為那麼你的主管機關都這樣講了那我們只能夠人民病人只能夠選擇相信嗎那請問制度面監督病人的權益是誰要來承擔啊"},{"start":8508.977,"end":8513.927,"text":"這不是法律字面的問題執行面你們自己部內已經這種態度了劉悅平這種態度我們可以信任你 要改革"},{"start":8521.348,"end":8547.028,"text":"吹哨者保護機制我們這個案子因為媒體一揭露其實我們就已經請鐘榮的院長不要一開始就出來說沒事要趕快去查你們就個案處理但這不是個案你去看我的youtube下面人家具體台南某個醫院某某某個醫院人家都講了都有人出來吹哨了所以歡迎來跟我們檢舉"},{"start":8550.699,"end":8561.228,"text":"檢舉的人有刑責伺候我檢舉我自己是共同詐欺犯要怎麼檢舉你有給人家吹哨子保護免刑責的機制嗎你告訴我有沒有你說歡迎大家來檢舉檢舉的人馬上共同詐欺的共犯委員您剛剛說刑責不是我說的"},{"start":8572.953,"end":8590.928,"text":"對啊 那你有免除人家的刑責嗎你有提出修法案嗎你有在醫師法裡面明文規定可以吹哨者免除刑責嗎你要修法捏 你說到事不關己你這種態度還能笑我覺得這正經事欸 很嚴肅欸"},{"start":8593.286,"end":8617.181,"text":"你還能夠覺得說不用修法不是委員剛剛是您說我不能刑責不是我講了算你說沒有刑責你們不會認定是刑責就不是你認定了 你憑什麼認定你有沒有責任你要修法在醫師法裡面把檢舉人免除刑責放到法律裡面來你現在推薦你的責任"},{"start":8618.442,"end":8628.318,"text":"你沒有權利 你說我要認定他們沒有刑責你沒有這個權利當你有責任的時候 你要去修醫師法的時候你就說 我沒有權利"},{"start":8631.158,"end":8653.842,"text":"不是這樣子的態度啦不是這樣啦你劉月平那個態度可以嗎你說說看你說說看劉月平的態度可以嗎委員我們這個案子我們全力來調查這不是這個案子你老是說個案這個案子他是全台灣全面性的全面性的骨科神經外科眼科脊髓外科"},{"start":8658.717,"end":8670.719,"text":"全面性的每個醫院很多都被人家講出來他不是一個醫院不是只有中榮你到底要怎麼解決"},{"start":8672.694,"end":8695.194,"text":"指導原則能做什麼違反指導原則會怎麼樣你要定一個指導原則違反指導原則會怎麼樣沒有委員我們剛剛提到他這裡面有些部分他會牽涉到對於我們健保那邊事實上是有違法的那剛剛提到醫師法以及密醫法這邊目前的法律當然都可以先處理當然委員如果提到要修法我們也尊重委員的評估你不認為應該要修法你不認為應該要解決這個問題嗎這要解決這個問題啊"},{"start":8698.286,"end":8704.66,"text":"你要怎麼解決第一個指導原則有法律有刑責他都不怕了那你的指導原則要做什麼蛤"},{"start":8709.639,"end":8737.284,"text":"我覺得很訝異啊次長你這種態度我想這個問題不會解決因為你宣示了一個跟劉月平一模一樣的態度醫生絕對不會違法醫生都是資料生醫生被自己申請很丟臉所以醫生絕對不會違法現在醫生很多都在違法當中而且還把麻醉科醫師把無辜的護理師都牽扯拉進來"},{"start":8738.988,"end":8754.643,"text":"他們何其無辜 其實很多業代也不願意當密醫而你制度面沒有保護這群人你們更是制度面忽略了病人該享有的保護的他有"},{"start":8756.116,"end":8768.383,"text":"廠商本來就不可以在病人身上指導現在就在病人身上指導所以我們要相關 後續調查之後要相關的排查不是一件 不是只有這個個案你剛才說消尾嘛好我們請回 跟你說不好我繼續問我們是藥署有請江署長"},{"start":8778.467,"end":8798.733,"text":"署長 上週五發生寶城興業有限公司豐原國際企業有限公司涉嫌從2024年起從國外輸入成本低廉的橄欖油破然後以日本一番頂級橄欖油的名義對外販售給下游廠商依照地檢署"},{"start":8799.793,"end":8813.508,"text":"還有你們的說法就這樣子你們主動告發然後地檢署說他們違反食安法第15條第1項第7款摻尾和假冒我請問你他們摻了什麼東西假冒了什麼東西"},{"start":8816.955,"end":8835.501,"text":"這個油品呢 它是用所謂感染破油摻了一個東西 摻了叫做同業綠素他們確定有加同業綠素嗎對 在查的過程當中我現在問你 因為你的新聞稿都沒有 你不要在這裡說謊喔新聞稿完全沒有描述他們摻了同業綠素"},{"start":8837.822,"end":8856.693,"text":"這邊委員特別詢問我特別因為還在偵辦當中我們自己驗的實驗室驗的我們是有驗到的同業律師所以跟你們去跟委員做進一步報告在確定之下呢感染破油是有這樣子的油品在CNS4837號的標準使用不要講CNS你的法規不應該要用經濟部的CNS標準"},{"start":8862.896,"end":8875.516,"text":"你的法律應該是你們的食品的品名標示標準要定規範我今天要講的如果他沒有加同業率數如果沒有的話請問他有違法嗎"},{"start":8878.343,"end":8904.201,"text":"報告委員他沒有加同業綠素但是假如他直接寫他是所謂的精緻的所謂的出炸油這個就是違法現在是在說什麼啦你們待乎職責就在這裡因為如果他沒有加同業綠素他從國外進口橄欖破油然後他說我這是頂級的橄欖油如果其他的廠商這樣做有沒有違法"},{"start":8905.086,"end":8909.45,"text":"有 他違反什麼法他在這個過程當中呢並不是他確確的所謂的原來的所謂的頂級出炸的橄欖油他沒有寫出炸 他寫頂級橄欖油即便他寫這個頂級橄欖油請問他違反什麼法因為市售橄欖油的油品你不要在這裡胡說八道我現在在這裡就跟你講"},{"start":8931.021,"end":8954.7,"text":"你的法律不應該講國家標準CNS因為那是沒有強制性那只是參考用的沒有法律的強制性而你現在就是食品安全衛生管理法的施行細則第七條第一項第二款因為你沒有制定"},{"start":8956.543,"end":8977.502,"text":"橄欖油的品名標示標準你沒有所以要用你的施行記者第一條第七條第一項第二款他說經中央主管機關規定者要依中央主管機關規定的名稱但是從假油事件到現在你們通通都沒有制定"},{"start":8978.809,"end":9005.085,"text":"什麼叫做感染有這個名稱那根據你們的施行細則沒有規定者得使用中華民國國家標準所定的名稱或是自定其名稱自定其名稱沒有強制性喔謝謝委員 委員其實非常精準的把食安法的施行細則第七條裡面做了跟我們做一些說明上面寫得不是因"},{"start":9006.345,"end":9016.491,"text":"他可以自己定名稱我把感染破友定成頂級感染友請問有沒有違規違法 沒有 那你們做了什麼你們應該做什麼 署長你告訴我"},{"start":9025.273,"end":9036.421,"text":"如果你把什麼叫做感染由你的品名標示標準的法律訂出來今天他這麼做就直接違法了"},{"start":9039.5,"end":9062.058,"text":"從2013年的假油事件 假橄欖油事件到現在2026年了 14年了我們看到2016年曾經衛福部食藥署說橄欖油要比照聯合國分五級你後年上路就是2018年要上路 曾經"},{"start":9063.635,"end":9089.351,"text":"到現在經過14年你們獨職你們不敢訂出什麼叫做感染油因為沒有訂出品名的標示標準所以業者把感染破油如果沒有添加非法的添加物他跟他說我是頂級感染油沒有違法 沒有違法"},{"start":9090.373,"end":9107.705,"text":"因為政府沒有定出什麼定義什麼叫感染 有所以就是對業者最大的縱放而今天 今天在這裡你了解阿公是縱放縱放的責任是誰是你 是政府"},{"start":9109.641,"end":9132.803,"text":"縱放廠商 這樣子亂搞的大家都很滿意 我也沒什麼頂級啦每次的秀秀都說我是優質感染油 明明的破油 破油為什麼不行你知道嗎 為什麼破油不行破油有沒有違法破油沒有違法對 破油用什麼去萃取的它用感染油破"},{"start":9134.028,"end":9160.265,"text":"不是啦 他加化學溶劑嘛他用溶劑 蒸擠完 那你想像不到欸化學溶劑 用脫膠 脫酸 脫色 脫臭的方法去把感染由人家炸完的破 拿回來再萃取合法的使用化學溶劑 合法的添加物"},{"start":9161.618,"end":9182.773,"text":"然後成為破油破油的健康風險是什麼你最知道你是腎臟科專家破油使用化學溶劑長期大家以為感染油是好油你不知道你買的感染油是破油因為政府沒有規定一定要把破油寫清楚"},{"start":9183.593,"end":9204.736,"text":"政府沒有規定所以廠商可以自己訂名稱我也不用訂得太好聽我也不用講說我是VIRGIN的我也不要講出詐我只要寫優質感染油也不用優質我就寫感染油其實都是破油化學溶劑萃取 你告訴我健康風險是什麼"},{"start":9205.815,"end":9223.594,"text":"報告委員因為油品出廠其實有規格啦如果他的破油他也是一種油可以使用的也不要完全合法的啊合法的啊對我說科技其實進步到可以把這些油能夠做再利用我們要但是他沒有直接把他接到我最後跟你說你剛才說破油合法的"},{"start":9226.437,"end":9231.422,"text":"但是我們希望消費者有知情的權利什麼叫橄欖油什麼叫出炸什麼叫混合油你把橄欖油的品名標示標準訂出來可以嗎這個部分我們答應可以嗎我們進一步的去研議一定給委員進一步的說明"},{"start":9244.073,"end":9271.316,"text":"因為這樣子其實是高風險的這是高風險的品項嘛長期吃破油長期吃化學容器萃取的破油這不會是好事所以在這裡看到假油混油藥屬在過去都是個案處理沒有上升到制度層次去回應所以這樣的管理態度太消極我們不能接受而感染油現在絕對不是只有這一家有問題"},{"start":9272.677,"end":9293.192,"text":"所以在這種狀況裡面 頂級感染油 純感染油 這是什麼油到底是不是感染油 什麼叫做感染油 通通都不知道所以我們在這裡希望 你把感染油的品名標示標準法規定出來 會很困難嗎"},{"start":9294.997,"end":9306.505,"text":"2013年研議到現在還需要研議嗎是因為廠商的利益被打減損了要跟廠商研議嗎2013年到現在還需要研議嗎馬上制定什麼叫做橄欖油什麼叫破油什麼叫出炸什麼叫這個精緻橄欖油"},{"start":9328.493,"end":9335.723,"text":"因為這整個牽涉的稍微廣 如果可以的話我們三個月內一定把牽涉的稍微廣我們等了13年了啦 2013年到現在"},{"start":9337.751,"end":9353.004,"text":"容我們可以14年2012年謝謝要多久我們可不可以用三個月的時間我們一定三個月你是要訂什麼三個月要做什麼我們在這個過程中其實要因為在CNS底下什麼CNS底下你們沒有訂CNS"},{"start":9356.787,"end":9364.254,"text":"不是CNS底下這些品名如何把它轉換其實都是製程上面要確立現在Cortex是9項如果你要分成CNS的5項勉強可以但是已經講夠久了14年13年了不要再讓人民繼續吃你以為花很貴的買的其實是破油"},{"start":9377.367,"end":9390.797,"text":"不可以這樣啦好 謝謝 謝謝委員 非常謝謝實案問題非常非常嚴重的事情就必須要快速的做更積極的因應啦接下來請王振旭委員來做詢問好 謝謝主席"},{"start":9403.925,"end":9415.36,"text":"那我要請衛福部林市長還有食藥署江署長還有經濟部的產發署陳副署長來討論市長好市長好副署長好今天有三個題目分別來請教三位"},{"start":9422.769,"end":9444.117,"text":"第一個部分就是有關台美關稅談判的成果還有對我國這個醫療產業發展方向的一個未來跟如何協助整個產業在這方面的發展第二部分就是我國邁入這個超高齡社會以後要加強這個長者的公費疫苗的接種我們如何能夠讓他做得更好"},{"start":9444.657,"end":9461.014,"text":"那第三個部分就是藥品無止化的政策應該跟經濟部還有環境部來共同的研商所以第一個部分就要麻煩三位一起來瞭解還有針對於我們台美關稅談判以後如何醫藥發展可以更全面"},{"start":9461.494,"end":9487.479,"text":"那我相信大家都非常的高興看到我們政府院長這麼努力的談判下來終於可以爭取到非常好的一個結果那台美這個貿易的這個談判最後爭取到就是我國輸往美國的學名藥跟原料藥的關稅是連關稅我相信這個對於整體尤其是藥界來講是非常振奮的一個消息"},{"start":9488.579,"end":9502.885,"text":"那我們也很期待能夠籌組國家隊來搶攻這個美國的市場那針對這一部分呢其實也有五大的信賴的產業就是包括半導體人工智慧國防科技安全與監控"},{"start":9504.506,"end":9529.588,"text":"次世代的通訊跟生物科技等產業的台美雙向的投資機制可以透過這樣的方式來建立起來那從蔡總統到賴總統一直希望能夠推動我國生技跟智慧醫療的產業發展能夠打造出台灣的第二座的護國神山因此我國的政府針對製藥生技跟智慧醫療的產業接下來會有哪一些的策略或者是計畫"},{"start":9530.669,"end":9554.082,"text":"是到美國投資為主呢還是希望能夠也有機會吸引美國相關資本跟技術到台灣來投資那各位麻煩就是針對有一些包括生技的部分就次長那如果是藥物的部分就麻煩署長那同時經濟部如果同步的發展跟協助就麻煩我們的副署長那各位麻煩次長"},{"start":9554.902,"end":9570.557,"text":"先跟委員報告謝謝委員關心就是說其實我們台灣事實上我們的相關原料藥的產製事實上是很有潛力的那只是過去長期因為市場整個規模的關係所以事實上有被低估那我們剛剛其實在前面很多委員在問的時候我們一再強調我們這次提的那個藥品韌性計畫"},{"start":9571.838,"end":9597.517,"text":"事實上我們就會盤出很多我們自己國內藥廠有那個潛力可以製造的這些藥品那一部分當然前提是希望能夠讓他們鼓勵他們生產來供國內的使用但是我們自己也持續跟美方在討論就是說甚至包含美國日本其他國家我們在談的事情是供應韌性這件事情不能只靠每個國家自己來自產自銷事實上要互相之間來協助所以有一些藥品如果說有機會的話我們也希望能夠來鼓勵我國的藥廠"},{"start":9598.437,"end":9620.252,"text":"這些相關的選民藥它有機會銷到美國因為既然是這樣子的狀況它也可以協助美國的一些藥品比較穩定這個部分先做一個報告那另外的話在這個生技產業的部分那因為包含我們今年再生醫療法已經上路了所以說在再生醫療跟細胞治療這個部分我們的研發的這個量能跟潛力事實上我相信委員很清楚我們研發量能是很好的我們很多經驗跟很多的"},{"start":9620.872,"end":9634.993,"text":"這些目前已經在推廣的這些藥廠生技產業他應該是有機會能夠跟全球來做鏈接那另外還有一個我們的潛能就是我們在AI的發展上面那我們在AI相關智慧醫材的部分我們食藥署跟CDE事實上對於智慧醫材相關的這個審核"},{"start":9636.275,"end":9665.435,"text":"我們從生測會這邊協助食藥署這邊協助我們有越來越多相關的AI醫材的部分來做協助那這個部分他領證之後其實我們目前包含新南向的一代產或者是我們今年在WHO我們去WHO我們今年會有一個智慧醫療展希望能夠藉這個機會讓國際社會能夠看到台灣在AI醫療產業這個部分的潛力跟能量那我們當然站在政府這邊我們不論是食藥署相關的法規或者是在跟其他單位我們全力來做協助那耀平我請署長這邊補充"},{"start":9668.676,"end":9684.662,"text":"有關於藥品的部分我們藥品的出口過去在我們的不管是原料藥或者是學名藥我們產值其實10億美金左右在整體來講我們覺得還是不足的消亡美國的部分那除了這以外我們對打開我們"},{"start":9687.338,"end":9700.465,"text":"其他的國家的市場的部分我們是積極的輔導尤其是在這一次的藥物韌性的計畫向下我們希望能夠輔導國內的藥品在落地台灣同時能夠做國際的輸出"},{"start":9704.247,"end":9732.053,"text":"我們希望在藥品的韌性能夠打造我們堅實成為美國特別是在學名藥原料藥的供應鏈之一台灣目前的原料藥有專門出口的其實我們知道的上百件相關於我們的學名藥的也有數百件這個已經是有這樣的確定了如何讓國內的生產源頭同時在國內落地跟國際上面能夠接軌的部分其實我們特別強調的是"},{"start":9733.573,"end":9757.987,"text":"在國際組織上面的參與不管是在ICH或者是ICMIA或者是APEC的架構底下我們希望能夠達到的是很中心的所謂調和harmonization在這種調和之下呢進一步的希望能夠對於雙邊的互信之下的所謂的審查互信的審查也能夠達到我們的韌性所以這整個的規劃的像是希望能夠從內部"},{"start":9759.468,"end":9778.733,"text":"能夠擴展到外部能夠達成整體的供應鏈剛才特別提到的學名藥跟原料藥的零關稅在美國的部分所以在這種前提之下讓雙方的我們的供應鏈尤其藥品的供應鏈能夠互相的因為台灣的原料藥其實品質好相對的它的價格是高的"},{"start":9779.113,"end":9797.485,"text":"那所以國內國際的特別是國際的大藥廠其實是持續在使用當中如何引導進入我們的藥物供應鏈在國內所以在這次的藥物韌性裡面也達到能夠支持讓他能夠永續發展跟經營以上說明好謝謝署長的說明那經濟部也是重責大任"},{"start":9799.286,"end":9820.163,"text":"我想這一塊的話經濟部一定跟衛福部一起共同來做一個努力那目前的話在那個藥廠相關的一個研發部分的話經濟部這邊會提供所謂的主題性的補助來讓業者這邊持續來做研發那在法規上面的話我們也有相關的一些"},{"start":9821.103,"end":9846.241,"text":"一些抵檢的一些項目包括生技醫藥的發展條例的話大概針對新藥的話大概有25%可以來做一個抵檢那如果是一般的一些研發的話那這邊我們會透過產創條例第10條也會有15%的一個抵檢所以不管在法規上跟補助投資方面的話我們都會來做一個努力謝謝委員"},{"start":9847.122,"end":9863.838,"text":"好 謝謝我們期待兩個部會共同的來努力那就麻煩署長跟副市長先請回座再過來我請教一下次長有關你這個超高齡社會應該要強化這個公費疫苗雖然這個不一定跟次長就直接管直接這個事務有關聯"},{"start":9865.64,"end":9884.548,"text":"不過我們也知道我們已經進入到超發力社會65歲以上長者流感疫苗的接種率就非常重要因為長者萬一發生流感後面造成的問題是比較嚴重不管是急診或者是重症影響都會非常的明顯"},{"start":9885.308,"end":9902.742,"text":"那根據2024年的這個記錄裡面我們的流感接種率在65歲以上的長者只有48%我們看到了這個統計呢韓國又第一名我們很羨慕他居然有到82.5%包括超過這個WHO的75%其他國家都還不錯"},{"start":9904.984,"end":9932.776,"text":"所以針對這部分今年我們還沒有知道說到底有多少長者有沒有更好的這個接種率不過如何來宣導長者對疫苗的信心這個很重要另外如何能夠鼓勵更多的基層醫療院所願意投入相關的這個疫苗施打的工作那衛部也要更努力那不知道衛部目前有沒有規劃或策略如果次長有所自息的話"},{"start":9933.516,"end":9960.106,"text":"好謝謝委員真的我們台灣的這個流感疫苗的接種先跟委員報告今年的公費疫苗接種率狀況是比去年好很多今年公費的部分幾乎都都已經接種的差不多了那公費這邊民眾接受度還不錯那當然其實就像委員提到的尤其是長者的流感因為既然是高風險我們當然尤其是有很多慢性病共病之下它事實上一旦傳染一旦得到流感它事實上後續的那個中重度的"},{"start":9960.846,"end":9975.335,"text":"發生併發症的機會很高那不過也真的像剛剛委員所說的我們台灣有一定程度接受疫苗的這個願意接受疫苗但是有一部分其實在疫苗的假消息跟錯假消息錯誤資訊非常的多我想委員一定也遇過"},{"start":9976.235,"end":9998.902,"text":"那我自己是常常聽到有一些真的是有地方的長輩會講說他真的不能打他慢性病很多不能打我想說你完全講顛倒慢性病很多一定要去接種那這邊我們也非常感謝就是說當然我們在衛福部這邊也希望委員在繼續來支持我們包含在宣導的政策上面因為去年的宣導費用是真的有受到一點影響所以我們能夠宣導的這個資訊比較少但我們盡量想辦法用多元管道去宣導"},{"start":10000.282,"end":10028.464,"text":"那再來的話當然是說我們在比較多合約院所這邊我們有相關制度上面讓合約院所越來越能夠來配合協助來做公費疫苗的施打那當然也謝謝很多地方衛生局他們可能有一些比較大型的施打站那讓這個接種能夠更方便另外的話也跟委員這邊說明就是說包含了我們在接下來的我們的888計畫裡面慢性病防治裡面888他在慢性病防治的過程中也希望說第一線的醫療人員協助我們因為醫生講的話有時候比政府容易讓人家信任"},{"start":10029.184,"end":10047.478,"text":"所以讓醫生來講另外的部分在大嘉義計畫裡面我們有把公費疫苗接種的這個接種率有放在大嘉義計畫裡面的一些相關的獎勵所以這裡面還是非常依賴包含第一線的醫療人員還有我們就是村裡裡面的林長里長幫我們相關的宣傳這個疫苗接種的重要性是"},{"start":10048.098,"end":10073.943,"text":"的確保護長者在這個流感期間能夠接受完整的疫苗注射真的是非常重要那也謝謝剛剛次長說明大家共同努力也看到了一些成果那我們也知道事實上現在針對這個年長者如果能夠用這所謂的加強型的疫苗它的保護效果可能會更好所以也謝謝我們CDC這邊今年也採購了20萬劑的加強型疫苗"},{"start":10074.483,"end":10096.18,"text":"可是因為20萬劑其實量相對還是沒那麼足夠所以他是優先提供長照跟安養機構65歲以上的長者來接種我想最重要就是希望能夠減少他在內部擴散或者是對長者尤其是如果是在長照機構相對他的風險又是更高"},{"start":10096.6,"end":10121.853,"text":"所以這是一個很好的方向那如果可行的話將來也可以希望考慮能夠強化高風險還有重大傷病的這些都能夠有機會來做加強性公費疫苗的施打那我們期待這部分我們可以持續的來努力好那謝謝次長那先次長先請回座我來請教一下我們江署長有關你這個藥品無止化這個跨部會研商的部分謝謝次長"},{"start":10126.604,"end":10142.416,"text":"委員好是署長我想大家都很關心尤其您就任以後希望能夠讓整體在不管醫藥尤其是藥的這些處理的部分可以更進一步的去得到好的一個正向的發展"},{"start":10142.916,"end":10164.535,"text":"那尤其是有關於這個考慮到整個環境保護跟這個資源的永續所以希望能夠針對這個無紙化尤其是仿單的無紙化能夠開始來推動也能夠迅速的去完成這一項的這個政策那我們也了解其實包括早上這個廖偉祥委員也有提到"},{"start":10165.015,"end":10183.949,"text":"在這個推動過程裡面我們還是有一些需要再進一步處理的地方包括說五指化將來會不會有這個四大面向的影響第一個就是用藥資訊這個讀取會不會受限尤其有一些身心障礙或高齡者他在這個方面會不會因為有這樣的這個"},{"start":10184.89,"end":10200.481,"text":"影響而造成他對用藥資訊無法掌握的非常清楚那第二個就是會有數位落差的問題大家都很清楚尤其是偏向的網路普及性或者是數位產品普及度在不同的這個階層可能會有這樣的問題"},{"start":10201.562,"end":10220.221,"text":"那第三個就是如果說訪單帶回去慢慢研讀那相對來講即使我們藥師在做服務的時候也會口頭說明可是就很擔心他的完整度不夠那如果把這個屋主要取消當然我們有其他的代替可是會不會增加這個工作的負擔"},{"start":10220.962,"end":10248.238,"text":"那最後當然就是無紙化意思就是那現在在印刷那些紙可能這個廠家的這些營業啦或者是服務面向可能會受到影響所以這個配套措施如何就非常的重要那我們瞭解以後也跟陳佩玉委員也跟我們辦公室一起請跟署長一起來討論相關如何能夠把配套措施可以做得更好"},{"start":10248.718,"end":10271.931,"text":"那這部分不知道目前署長有沒有進一步的規劃謝謝委員的垂詢有關於仿單電子化的部分當然我們希望所謂的elaboring能夠推展可是推展的前提我們現在到年底前是所謂的電子結構化的部分先完成結構化因為結構化之後才能往後一步的所謂的電子化邁進"},{"start":10273.492,"end":10297.47,"text":"我們現在結構化裡面是非常完整的仿丹但是就臨床的用藥其實我們拿到這藥的時候醫師的處方接下來就是藥師的調劑跟藥師用藥的指導所以這些訊息不單單是在仿丹裡面可以獲得在指導以及調劑的過程中也可以達到一定的功效就像我們拿到藥袋的時候會有特別的說明"},{"start":10298.07,"end":10325.056,"text":"所以特別提到的剛才提到的用藥資訊的讀取會不會不利身心障礙者所以我們在溝通的場次裡面其實有對於不同的弱勢團體以及聽障 視障等等的所以我們的規劃裡面甚至是多語言的能夠讓他們聽得到能夠去了解或者是閱讀出來除了這以外數位落差的確是我們去考量的一個部分在這個過程當中我們在想說如何去萃取出"},{"start":10325.916,"end":10343.17,"text":"所謂的完整訪單裡面進一步能夠簡化的讓民眾可以了解這是我們的規劃努力的方向之一那我們了解到的是如果完全訪單沒有了對於藥盒裡面是沒有進一步內容而變成所謂QR Code的部分那如果變成"},{"start":10344.091,"end":10366.889,"text":"基層的藥師 藥事人員要重新去把它抓出來去做這件事情我們也的確發現它的困難性是有所以我們目前持續在溝通還沒有特別的定案的部分我想這部分需要更多的時間去了解因為在結構化的部分其實是在先期的做到後面的完全確實的實施的過程當中其實署內是在研議當中"},{"start":10367.87,"end":10391.296,"text":"那這個過程中我們特別對職業印刷業我們也跟他們做溝通我們了解整體的確他們是相對弱勢那以現在的藥品的訪單造成他們的困擾也是極大的好 謝謝其實我們這次的演繹裡面也希望能夠在一定期程裡面先採行雙軌制希望能夠有機會把紙本還有這個電子結構的內容同步提供"},{"start":10391.809,"end":10419.213,"text":"那另外也希望能夠再邀集更多的利害關係人跟團體來溝通政策所以最後其實也希望能夠針對產業升級的部分跟經濟部共同研商那有關無紙化跟環境保護之間的關聯目標等等也能夠有機會跟環境部共同來討論所以希望針對這樣的議題署長可以跟所有相關的部會都能夠繼續共同來努力當然我想"},{"start":10419.833,"end":10447.3,"text":"最重要的應該就是讓我們這些用藥是安全的那所有需要用藥不管是在哪一個層級哪一個範圍都能夠讓這個用藥的安全達到他該有的目標那就麻煩署長繼續努力謝謝委員我們一定以病人安全為前提之下做跨部會的溝通謝謝署長謝謝主席謝謝王振旭委員我們接下來請劉建國委員質詢"},{"start":10453.914,"end":10464.861,"text":"謝謝 謝謝主席 有請次長次長上台前我還是要提醒署長那橄欖油佔我們國內消費者使用的使用的比例是非常高"},{"start":10466.696,"end":10484.665,"text":"然後這事情要處理好我剛剛會特別要求說希望一個月那當然次長跟署長是希望兩個月嘛我還是建議可能要更積極的因應因為現在連一些書士都都是很習慣去使用這個橄欖油所以這個部分我還是再度提醒不要造成署長一來的"},{"start":10486.105,"end":10511.716,"text":"這一個大風暴對整個實案的問題會很大的一個挑戰好不好 蘇珀你先請回沒關係不過這個事情好像跟你也有關係上個禮拜15日台灣跟美國的關稅已經這個貿易已經達成了重大攻勢台灣蘇美的商品關稅稅率降到15%然後不疊加那更重要的是其中美國將對學民藥"},{"start":10513.737,"end":10532.382,"text":"學名藥的原料非吉林組件及稀缺的自然資源等項目實施零趴的互惠關稅所以對台灣的醫藥發展絕對是重磅消息也許我們隔天就看到製藥界這樣的一個發表聲明雖然我國蘇美藥品項目不多"},{"start":10532.902,"end":10560.748,"text":"但美國對臺的零關稅對學民藥的發展仍然是利多有助於外銷市場的多元化所以這個報導我想就不再贅述了它最主要還是希望呼籲應該趕快組國家隊來搶攻美國的市場所以過去我們都知道全球的原料藥的供應都是來自中國、印度兩大國高度的把持當然這次的臺美的學民藥還是這個學民藥的原料"},{"start":10562.072,"end":10590.486,"text":"這樣的一個互惠關稅對台灣的原料藥品的市場策略無疑是鼓吹搶攻的一個浩角所以因此台灣一定要把握這次機會我想市長應該可以認同吧非常認同你跟部長一個應該就是台灣藥的國家隊的隊長跟副隊長對不對不敢啦 我們還有經濟部要一起努力對啊 經濟部也要一起努力你還坐下來你就不太努力了 OK 好"},{"start":10591.75,"end":10618.637,"text":"所以這個我想要迅速盤點資源你一定整個市場策略然後我們要把握這一次的機會讓台灣要能在美國達穩根基 展望全球所以市場才特別提到經濟部也是要一起來我想這個是毋庸置疑其實橄欖油跟經濟部也有關係這個大家都非常清楚那我要這邊具體另外再提出一個建議副市長你先請回這就沒你的工作了 不好意思未來 未來可能就會了"},{"start":10620.868,"end":10639.905,"text":"我要在這邊具體提出建議現在在司法法治委員會已經在審查這個組織法就是要把國家的中醫藥研究所變成這個國家中醫研究院把藥已經拿掉我也不曉得什麼原因然後他們去年3月的時候有跟嘉義市政府有簽訂一個MOU這我們的蘇司長"},{"start":10642.347,"end":10659.764,"text":"要在中台灣建立一個中藥草的研發廊帶研發廊帶然後我覺得這樣量能好像不夠尤其如果你現在台美關稅可以迎來如此重大的利多我們都對這個中藥的原料的投注一定要相對"},{"start":10660.905,"end":10682.638,"text":"相對應的擴大對不對才有機會在美國市場國際市場長期把持著中國印度來競爭然後新冠當時的新冠那個會員的時候對不對我們的藥中藥來講打響這樣的一個知名度確實有一定的這樣一個療效所以我們既然要建立這個中藥草的這個狼帶應該是要擴大所以從彰化"},{"start":10687.458,"end":10702.404,"text":"如果嘉義嘛從北延伸是雲林彰化從南延伸是不是還可以到什麼地方我不曉得那這個一定要達到某種程度的一個擴大了一個規模所謂的經濟規模嘛那才有好過嘛不過他是講研發啦他還是把研發"},{"start":10703.504,"end":10720.422,"text":"研發廊帶這有點奇怪台灣應該有很多的在本草幹木裡面台灣很多的水質土壤空氣還有他的海拔其實是種的出來的怎麼過去我們好像這一塊裡面的這個規模一直沒辦法擴大"},{"start":10721.082,"end":10748.89,"text":"我不曉得是什麼原因然後他現在又叫做叫做研發中藥草的研發狼帶還處在研發的階段那我就覺得很很不夠成熟照理講不應該是這個樣子的所以如果次長你來你來你來你來Handle這事情我覺得才可以可能有辦法讓這個速度可以更加的的快速所以我我是這邊距離這個建立部長建立次長啦你應該叫部長來看"},{"start":10750.53,"end":10774.401,"text":"中藥草種植的產業鏈台灣也可以跟台灣的整個精緻的農業做整體這樣的一個鏈結我們像在我們雲林很多的農漁牧也是台灣的糧倉然後農作物也好 漁牧的產業也好都可以透過生物的技術萃取精華及製藥的相關的原料"},{"start":10775.061,"end":10802.4,"text":"所以如果可以未來搭配中藥的這個狼帶我覺得應該可以相烏相承那今日審查藥事法就是要因應新冠疫情以來原料藥的供應不穩且藥品需求上揚導致市場傳出國內的藥品供應短缺的問題所以我希望透過這次修法我想我們更應該可以來強化自己的製藥跟生產的這個能力所以也在這邊希望我這樣建議"},{"start":10803.18,"end":10827.01,"text":"市長能不能在一個月內可以把這樣的一個中藥的狼帶可以擴大來做相關的一些評估 可以吧先跟委員報告 委員剛剛所提醒的都非常 我們都非常的能夠了解也非常肯定 因為其實我們當然在114年有在雲林這邊我們有鼓勵優質中藥的種植那有補助一些相關的特定的藥材"},{"start":10828.991,"end":10844.211,"text":"因為我們在評估我們的藥品供應韌性的時候不是只有西藥事實上中藥材的部分因為過去幾乎多數都仰賴中國那一小部分也仰賴可能馬來西亞或印度所以我們也我自己雖然這不是我業館但是我跟中醫藥師還有跟業館的裝置還有甚至包含屢次我們都討論過就是說我們"},{"start":10846.354,"end":10871.056,"text":"台湾尤其是在不论是东部或西部我们都有一些地方是非常优质的种植的产地所以说如果我们从上方我们包含的中医药师这边认为有潜力或者是我们国内有大量需求的这些中药材往下去辅导协助我们这部分也跟农业部有讨论过就是说有一些优质的土壤或者是农场来协助他们辅导来种植这边我们事实上要有引导"},{"start":10871.616,"end":10886.453,"text":"因為中醫藥師知道哪些藥品有潛力哪些藥品有這個需求而且我們國內種的品質搞不好比其他國家更好那這邊來協助跟引導才有辦法長出這個狼袋來我用這樣形容啦 市長能不能認同啦台灣人對中藥其實也是覺得比較好啦比較好意思是說它比較溫和啦"},{"start":10890.177,"end":10894.262,"text":"大家依賴很重的啦 不會覺得有啦還有我們食補藥補都有啦對啦 但是他比較溫和但是也比較慢啦 比較慢就對了但是政府針對中醫號槽的這個不管是專區 不管是人大 不能太慢啦是 好他想要溫和 其實"},{"start":10906.577,"end":10919.987,"text":"中國自己現在連他們自己這樣的種植的中藥草都不夠供給他們自己國內的使用他們也要靠進口了而且他們的品質跟裡面的一些農藥等重金屬事實上是有一點疑慮的"},{"start":10921.748,"end":10949.205,"text":"我們國內這邊包含 也跟委員報告就是我們包含東部那邊之前包含慈濟的院長跟我們報告過他們那邊有一些是很不錯的產地那國內這邊就是我們剛剛所說的雲嘉南彰化雲嘉南這邊事實上有一些地方他們之前的研究都認為說在那邊種植某一些藥材它的那個濃度或活性是非常好的那這邊我們會持續跟中醫藥師來研議那如果市市藥署能協助也一起協助因為時間的關係 這樣就忙完一個月啦我們不能太慢啦 講快一點 好不好好 這邊我們藥效加速"},{"start":10950.786,"end":10971.722,"text":"我最後一題是這樣為了治療糖尿病研發的長臂樹因為能抑制食慾現在已經被當作這個減重的聖品導致亂象重生那過去是花生減為民眾跟糖尿病患在搶藥2021年開始持續花生這個缺藥控貨的問題直到去年9月食藥署才公告恢復正常供應"},{"start":10972.423,"end":10995.965,"text":"然後並強調持續請藥廠優先供應藥品給治療糖尿病醫療機構以及調製藥品慢性蟲彎腺的藥局確保藥品優先於糖尿病患這樣的呼籲到底有沒有效 這第一件事情第二件事情 現實是整個說說真的市場是越來越大亂象真的也是越來越多如果不再即時介入 一定會再出問題我提供一個報導給"},{"start":10997.446,"end":11012.718,"text":"我們市長跟署長看一下這個內容我就不再追溯了還有組團的 還有淘寶的還有其他你自己看委員你覺得這個我們有注意對 有注意這個是去年年底的時候還是這樣"},{"start":11013.559,"end":11036.964,"text":"那九月我們才說食藥水災公告恢復正常供應那去年年底就變成有這樣的亂象持續到現在應該不間斷了然後可以發現現在民眾是無所不用其極在打針彼此見面第一句話說 你有煮嗎 你煮得不錯喔你如果炒這麼多 你是煮多少 你一隻要多少你一隻煮多少"},{"start":11040.305,"end":11064.135,"text":"我在這一個月內在立法院聽到這樣的聲音真的實在是平衡到你難以想像了或許我們這種體格比較不會不需要但是就經常會聽到你就知道這個回胖症也蠻嚴重的所以才很多的這有回胖症的朋友真的很需要這樣的一個受挫症的注射但是"},{"start":11065.123,"end":11086.712,"text":"如果正規的撿回門診所開的處方目前知會是從價格8000到3萬不等嘛坦白講他算是昂貴的一個治療費用了然後台灣另一回放針的方針目前著重於回放預防如果根據美國的英國的研究BMI大於40的時候在10年內可以減重至正常體重的病患每年約只有千分之一啦"},{"start":11089.214,"end":11103.912,"text":"回棒症的後果是什麼如果1966年到1972年美國癌症協會就指出回棒症會增加罹患子宮頸癌 胃癌 膽囊癌 直腸癌腎癌 乳癌的機會如果體重都超過這個理想的40%那可能"},{"start":11104.913,"end":11117.482,"text":"男性會增加33%的這個罹癌的機會女性會增加到55%所以WHO也才會去公布13種跟回放相關的這個癌症所以治療糖尿病的長臂數變成減肥聖品也證明這兩者之間其實有相關連性"},{"start":11121.204,"end":11148.486,"text":"正相關的靈性所以還有其他心血管三高等慢性病都跟肥胖症有關所以如果我們發現這個肥胖持續的發生也就是加重健保的負擔與支出這個我想你們都非常清楚委員這邊跟委員報告如果是像剛剛委員提到BMI大於40或者是他明確是已經是符合我們講肥胖症的診斷的話事實上這邊是給藥indication是沒有問題的那健保這邊其實也相關的幾乎是OK的"},{"start":11148.886,"end":11164.614,"text":"但是現在在市面上看到所以說這個部分為什麼我們之前要控貨是因為我們要控給真正符合適應症必須醫師診斷需要用藥而且符合用藥指引的這是第一塊那第二塊現在市面上看到的亂象其實多數它都是其實就是不符合我們剛剛所說藥品"},{"start":11166.015,"end":11191.63,"text":"使用適應症的這一群人那他在我們叫off-level use他非適應症的這一群那非適應症居民當然我們再次強調目前我們在查查沒有處方販售處方藥的這個部分因為他包含了他違反藥師法跟醫師法所以這個部分我們有查到或者地方衛生局他們有查的話他如果沒有適應症沒有經過醫師處方自行買藥的話這個部分事實上是違法的那另外一個部分就是說當然在如果是醫師這邊開出來的處方"},{"start":11193.211,"end":11207.667,"text":"那给药他有如果不符合适应症他是适应症之外使用的话我们当然现在还是希望说第一个我们还是持续来宣导用药因为像委员提到的没有经过医师诊断然后他自己去买药第一他到底是不是他很有可能是伪药可能是劣药"},{"start":11208.628,"end":11231.3,"text":"這是第一個問題第二個部分沒有在醫師指導之下藥師指導之下給予藥品的使用這個是非常危險的行為那這個也會造成後續的一些傷害所以還是要強調就是說這個藥品目前認為非常有潛力那剛剛委員所引述的相關的文獻也是一樣它在於符合適應症十分嚴重的病態肥胖的病人他是真的有治療效果我們也希望也肯定他能夠持續在這邊治療但是"},{"start":11231.92,"end":11260.729,"text":"如果單純只是為了自己要去改變外貌甚至我們看到有些BMI已經很低那醫師還持續給藥的這個我們認為是不符合的也認為不但不鼓勵而且我們認為不可以這樣子做好 主席那個超過時間都是次長講的不是我 謝謝委員給我這個機會對 我還是要回應一下我們現在的這個減肥的門診基本上都還是智慧啦 對不對我覺得這個也是國家針對減肥政策的問題所在"},{"start":11261.989,"end":11281.979,"text":"這個我們必須要大大的檢討我們甚至於之前跟部長已經討論到對身心障礙者的減肥有其必要的趕快加緊的腳步來去做相關的一些因應所以林林總統加起來我還是希望市長重視這個事情是不是在最短時間如果參照英國他們有10年健康計畫所以賴總統在講的健康台灣"},{"start":11283.099,"end":11311.307,"text":"沒有把這一塊囊塊症囊塊症裡面就有問題了對不對健康台灣888裡面其實我們第一個8是找到那80%第二個8就是行為介入我們還是認為雖然我們自己是醫界而且我們也知道有藥品但是我們還是希望多數的民眾可以從健康行為促進行為改變行為介入先來做因為很多的人很多的人他事實上是還沒有到需要用到藥品來協助他減重那需要藥品減重事實上已經到了很多病態的情況"},{"start":11311.667,"end":11341.145,"text":"我知道所以剛剛我跟你講連英國都覺得這樣的處理方式當然我們的模式可能跟他不盡相同不過只有親吻之一那你講的888的模式如果一開始執行我們半年來做一個追蹤你覺得可以達到什麼樣的一個效益然後那個會不會超越過英國這麼少的這樣的一個比例這個我們當然是可以來檢討但是現在我們看到亂象就這樣通通沒有在想到所謂的888政策反而是受挫增持最好"},{"start":11342.386,"end":11358.966,"text":"然後取得管道是非常的多元而且非常的凌亂很多都是錯誤或是非法管道所以我是希望市長可以具體的回應委員會是不是在一樣在一個月時間大力的來做相關的一些盤整調查甚至要做相關的一些整頓"},{"start":11359.987,"end":11377.866,"text":"一個月之內我們把一些相關目前的了解還有未來的規劃給委員會一個報告最後我還是希望我們台灣跨出第一步啦正式回報問題已經有了啦但是還是嚴厲相關的健保的門診治療讓回報患者勇氣的尋求正規的醫療協助然後而且在合理的負擔範圍可以吧"},{"start":11378.444,"end":11391.715,"text":"委員其實現在如果是符合這個藥品使用的病人事實上都在健保這邊都會給予那其實現在看到亂象多數人這種他事實上我們現在看到我們更擔心跟委員報告我真的更擔心的事情是BMI只有18還用藥"},{"start":11395.678,"end":11420.14,"text":"這個是非常危險的行為這是很不合理的行為所以事實上我們現在更擔心的那一塊就是他不符合適應症符合適應症健保這邊給予支持給予協助治療這個部分我們絕對支持但是很多現在我們看到的事情是不符合適應症他BMI22是根本就不需要用藥根本就不該用藥這塊是我們現在比較關注的部分所以你們去年9月說已經恢復整個這樣的一個公告供應正常但是到底供應給誰"},{"start":11421.946,"end":11449.144,"text":"你的公益正常是指什麼公益正常是指他符合適應症必須用藥的民眾病人而不是自己覺得想要更瘦一點的人但是我剛剛所提供的相關的訊息基本上應該不是這樣還有私底下的一些的作為我們也會接下來我自己會召集相關學協會因為這個部分當然以糖尿病專業或內分泌這邊他們有相關的指引這個部分沒有問題但是事實上目前很多用藥的部分是沒有遵照指引的那我們也希望說專業學協會這邊要對於非"},{"start":11452.126,"end":11480.76,"text":"符合適應證 或者是過度濫用的部分要有一些態度下面的委員已經對我不是單單了OK 好 一個月內啦 好不好大力的整頓這件事情 好 謝謝好 謝謝我們接下來請羅廷威委員質詢好 有請次長還有署長 食藥署次長跟署長"},{"start":11481.707,"end":11506.959,"text":"劉委員我沒有虎視眈眈我只希望召委比照辦理喔 謝謝等一下召委就還他了希望他有聽到對不起要不要休息啊趕快抽回來好 謝謝次長今天院版的要事法跟這個要害救濟法請問次長你知道這個版本是怎麼來的嗎"},{"start":11508.556,"end":11523.511,"text":"這個版本其實我們去年開始因為相關的一些法規模糊或者是沒有明確所以我們開始做研議另外還就包含委員之前所關心到的我們如果是專案進口的藥品那對於民眾這邊他沒有辦法符合要害救濟那這塊我們也謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":11524.682,"end":11544.416,"text":"市長今天就直接切入重點我想2024年我們發生了生理食鹽水這樣子輸出液的一個問題產製不足我們只好向國外進口當時我在整個院會的質詢也跟這個邱部長特別提醒無法求償只能用所謂的這個消費者保護法"},{"start":11547.765,"end":11570.266,"text":"沒有法源依據所以應該這些進口的輸液就是禁藥那今天藥事法跟整個藥害救濟的修法背景不是衛福部今天寫的一個報告這麼簡單我覺得內部的報告就是避重就輕那我很高興剛剛次長有提出我所提到的前因那現在呢我們希望"},{"start":11571.127,"end":11591.015,"text":"要把這個部分再一次的好好講清楚說明白不要認為全民的記憶會被抹去也不要認為立法委員跟所有的全民會被當成盤子很好騙喔那當時次長也有在臉書回應藥事法55條就是零次您當時臉書回應而來的55條在當時次長聲稱輸入的大型輸出液是樣品"},{"start":11598.615,"end":11609.111,"text":"依據藥事法55條是不得出售那為何健保署當時還付款呢健保署江署長當時你還不是署長"},{"start":11610.543,"end":11632.381,"text":"你是倒楣的戴罪羔羊這個事情跟你無關但是如果當時我沒有揭開這樣子的一個問題今天的院版修法的版本還會不會存在我不知道但是今天審查藥事法有12案 藥害救濟法有10案許多委員寫的版本都跟院版差不多只有我"},{"start":11633.772,"end":11656.777,"text":"就我們兩個人的版本不太一樣我們來好好的討論一下首先藥事法第55條次長請問你有沒有看到我藥事法第55條的提案原由我今天應該有說明吧您應該都很清楚當時衛生福利部113年9月11日有給我這樣子的一個相關公文我想原則啊"},{"start":11657.617,"end":11683.064,"text":"我們都看到了有關是否涉及出售的行為原則涉及其費用是否超出藥品的相關製造及供應成本費用而定但是看了今天的書面報告衛福部沒有承認錯誤還在硬拗我依照衛福部給我的公文來修法一字不漏地寫在法條上請問一下是衛福部自己打臉自己喔"},{"start":11684.181,"end":11711.166,"text":"報告委員其實我們藥品的核價本來就要這個跟委員報告謝謝委員支持我們之前那時候因為有公共衛生事件所以有藥品的這個供應韌性那第二個部分就是說在當時的藥品核價雖然是專案進口但是這個專案進口的核價還是要經過相關的共理會決議同意所以這個核價有相關的標準那也不是我們自己衛福部自己決定的那這個過程中有一相關的法規去做調整當然我知道但是今天我們就很清楚嘛看這個公文這公文誰發給我的"},{"start":11712.766,"end":11731.909,"text":"這是答覆立法委員的正式公文這中間要有多少的公務人員合張怎麼可以糊弄立法院現在怎麼辦我想問一下 報告委員這邊容我一點點的回覆就是委員其實在第55條裡面提出的修正案特別提出出售行為 贈品等等"},{"start":11732.649,"end":11754.476,"text":"因為這樣的一個內涵在這一次我們整體修法裡面去希望能夠更完整的時候我們把它放在二七之三條裡面就把它涵蓋過去所以當初我們引用這個部分其實有一些精進的地方的確是有精進的地方我承認沒關係我支持你願意精進的一個態度但是我今天想問的是請問一下次長"},{"start":11755.509,"end":11771.463,"text":"我們要不要承認錯誤第一 如果你不承認錯誤那今天的修法就不用啟動了嘛因為你對過去的法律解釋都沒有錯誤那今天幹嘛還要修法呢第二 今天的修法還提出了願版就是因為違法的行為在前面"},{"start":11772.724,"end":11798.733,"text":"現在修法是補正前面的錯誤那你前面的錯誤要不要先跟全國人民道歉不是跟我因為整個用到這個所謂的要害賠償是有可能是當事者是全民第三當初你們還用類推試用我永遠無法忘記竟然可以用類推試用那我想問一下大家今天在座的各位"},{"start":11799.953,"end":11821.386,"text":"邱部長說可以類推私用 那今天我們幹嘛修法就繼續類推私用就好啦所以衛福部到底要不要跟全民道歉如果不道歉我希望麻煩你把進口輸液的那些錢還回國庫我四點具體的要求一 請具體的跟國人道歉"},{"start":11822.605,"end":11837.071,"text":"第二依據食藥署的回函修法請衛福部回函給我更正前面前函的一個論述第三我要求對類推適用的說明要做更正"},{"start":11838.257,"end":11858.29,"text":"第四因為書面報告已經公開的在立法院的網站上所以我今天所有我希望今天的書面報告第五頁第二項要求重寫重新送到立法院請問一下次長可以嗎好先跟委員報告謝謝委員也支持我們接下來在法律上面能夠更明確的去做一些文字上的處理"},{"start":11858.53,"end":11885.228,"text":"也跟委員接著說當然委員要求我們對於我們在2024年5月份當時的整個書役短缺後續的一些程序法規上面不明確的部分這個部分我們真的就是道歉很抱歉當時不論是在整個書役處理上面相關的流程上面還有後來的相關的法規援引上面因為過去的很多法源的不足那當時用這個方式來做處理緊急來供應國內在重要的藥品必要藥品上面的這個供應"},{"start":11886.048,"end":11903.564,"text":"我們這個部分真的誠摯的跟大家抱歉因為其實當時一整年不論是藥廠不論是藥商或者是所有第一線臨床人員我們大家都非常的辛苦那這邊也再一次的為了這整件事情來跟大家做抱歉那這也是為什麼在各位委員的指導之下那我們這次提出來相關的修法法案因為其實"},{"start":11904.525,"end":11931.466,"text":"必須跟委員說明就是說在這個第55條或者是第27條這一邊過去長期以來不單純只是這一次生理鹹水所遇到這個問題過去長期以來有相關的一些藥品都有遇到類似的狀況原因不一那所以也是因為這個原因我們全面的去盤整在國內藥品的供應上面來講必須要有更明確的法源跟更明確的法律依據那所以這一次我們才在文字上面還有相關條文上面做一個比較明確的處理以上跟委員報告"},{"start":11932.647,"end":11959.148,"text":"謝謝次長我想我要跟大家講的是我們愛真理但我們更愛全民健康今天不是爭一口氣啊是為人民正當的權益所以今天我們希望衛福部面對問題才能夠解決問題很高興次長有這樣子的一個態度承擔重任並且把這些我們剛剛所提到的一個問題啊我們來加以修正次長您可以先請回了謝謝謝委員"},{"start":11961.149,"end":11987.811,"text":"接下來我想請問一下署長署長我想跟您探討一個最近我們所有的家長都非常的擔憂非常的驚訝就是我們在食藥署最近有這個抽驗所謂的孩童在食用海苔的部分有驗出了重金屬我們非常非常的憤慨我也必須告訴你我是受害者我也是受害者的家長"},{"start":11988.857,"end":12005.085,"text":"那我自己有吃啊小孩子吃就跟著吃嘛那我相信更多的家長都有吃但是有週刊爆料在整個行政院消保進入去調查的時候是去年5月抽驗到了去年12月"},{"start":12005.945,"end":12031.117,"text":"才公佈這過程冗長食藥署到底在整個抽驗的過程當中有沒有及時的回饋有沒有及時的去阻斷這些供貨我們很擔憂啊所以整個報導也講出啦有些海苔已經賣到缺貨那這怎麼辦都吃下肚啦所以這個問題你能不能回答我你們在時去上是不是應該精進"},{"start":12032.709,"end":12061.323,"text":"報告委員有關於這個起始點是在行政院消保處針對關心嬰幼兒的食品裡面重金屬含量所以抽檢的過程中抽了國內有一家海苔商海苔的它特別標示裡面比較看起來比較偏向是在嬰幼兒的食用所以在針對海苔或者海藻類的分的管理我先簡單的說明一般的海藻類的是1ppm"},{"start":12062.463,"end":12085.913,"text":"而且要覆水對於嬰幼兒非常非常嚴格的副食品的話是定在0.05千格格的部分是0.04ppm所以這個就是定的差了就是將近有100倍20倍加上覆水之後就有100倍這個有趣的地方就是12月份被提出來是之前其實我們針對"},{"start":12087.173,"end":12110.188,"text":"消保署的提醒我們我們就請衛生局前去做了把這個貨能夠下架避免繼續的暴露這件事先做那12月份之後呢應該是一些業者或者是提供了一些訊息覺得這個國內會不及格進口的應該也會不及格所以就去驗了七種的確驗了七種之後本署也進一步的去檢驗確立了這件事情"},{"start":12110.868,"end":12126.13,"text":"那我們就忽然間想了一件事情這件事情吃了亞洲地區其實日韓都吃可從來都沒有提到這件議題所以我們進一步去研議研議的時候發現一件事情對於嬰幼兒的海苔這件事情我們應該是放在"},{"start":12127.151,"end":12148.832,"text":"副食品的管理還是它只是一個簡單的點心吃的是一點點而已它這個規格是就會不一樣但是我們以重研來去面對這件事情我認為應該重研是的 所以目前我們採取重研所以進一步我們要去研議那意思其實有一點點就對於海苔這一項食品"},{"start":12150.069,"end":12173.162,"text":"對於嬰幼兒就是完全阻斷因為牠是海洋 會濃縮 牠有特殊性全世界目前我們沒有看到其他國家揭露這件事情的狀況但是這件事情在我們台灣首先認識 發生我覺得還是應該從嚴的去看但是後續待使我們監管的部分我們持續在眼裡因為整整意思就是說這項產品在嬰幼兒是絕原體的"},{"start":12173.962,"end":12189.591,"text":"因為他的食品的特殊性好 蘇長我們都知道很重要啦因為你剛剛講很久趙偉站起來是因為他講很久不是我啊所以要給我一點時間啦但我還是希望具體的一個要求啦第一 最嚴格的角度去看待"},{"start":12190.191,"end":12213.328,"text":"第二 擴大相關的孩童食用不管是零食或附屬品的檢驗進口因為這些問題我相信進口商應該就是不知道不了解不知道我們的法規這麼嚴苛所以導致進口這樣的問題甚至有的人是知道還故意進口這些都是我們要強力阻斷的所以我希望擴大檢驗這部分請問署長可以承諾我嗎"},{"start":12214.228,"end":12236.076,"text":"跟委員這邊報告我們針對相關的進口的部分目前是沒有分裂的號列在嬰幼兒跟所謂的一般的食品所以我們現在是用關鍵字去把它萃取出來做檢驗跟在阻斷在邊境目前我們持續在做好這個部分你一定要承諾好謝謝謝謝羅廷維委員發言接下來請圖全琦委員發言"},{"start":12244.488,"end":12255.494,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那先請我們食藥署署長食藥署江署長委員好"},{"start":12256.226,"end":12282.131,"text":"好 署長那就剛好延續剛剛我們羅廷偉委員講的我們那個針對嬰幼兒食品海苔部分這個問題那我們看我們衛福部我們針對嬰幼兒食品海苔這部分在2025年5月我們就去抽驗那我們看它的報告出入時間是在7月2025年7月那公布報告的時間是在2025年的12月15號"},{"start":12284.491,"end":12305.428,"text":"那這大概有半年的時間那為什麼這報告出入之後已經知道之後要半年之後才公佈說這個食品它的重金屬是超標的這邊跟委員說明一下因為這個部分是在行政院小寶處的公告但是我們被複製這件事情的時候其實我們在"},{"start":12306.869,"end":12333.551,"text":"衛生局協同食藥署這邊就已經去把這項產品其實要求下架了所以在這個下架之前那個單一產品我們已經有做到下架這件事情什麼時候下架這個就是他們複製我印象在5月檢查之後後續7月左右我們其實知道的時候我們就做了進一步的去對單一的產品因為檢查不準確所以7月就下架對 那個確確的時間那為什麼要到12月才公佈"},{"start":12334.752,"end":12363.861,"text":"這個公佈的部分其實是在小寶處的公佈大概不在本署的公佈那我們已經把它給阻斷了這個購買的一個通路了所以這個可能要檢討一下不然你看還有半年的空窗期就像剛剛羅庭委員他說他也是受害者的家長但是我在這之前他知道這個食品是重心鎖超標就算他買回去他可以不要給小孩子吃可是你到12月才公佈所以這段時間他就把它吃完了"},{"start":12364.581,"end":12383.46,"text":"就这个部分我们其实在先前的时候我们先做了阻断已经在让它在市场已经下市了已经做了我觉得这部分真的要检讨一下居然有半年的空窗期都已经知道超标只有到半年以后才公布这让多少婴幼儿又去吃下这重金属超标违规的食品"},{"start":12385.462,"end":12399.994,"text":"還有我再請問一下那針對我們嬰幼兒海苔食品它這個驗出重金屬超標那據我們了解它如果是用一般食品進口的話有可能沒有超標對不對"},{"start":12401.514,"end":12428.133,"text":"報告委員因為現在沒有特別針對他們的耗列而且第二件事情是海苔我們可以想像這個海苔在使用的過程當中其實跟我們一般的小朋友的副食品副食品 譬如說我們現在長大的粥然後我們想要的果泥等等副食品其實長的其實就是不一樣但是我們從嚴的目前是這樣子的管理如果我剛才提到如果我們從嚴的這樣子管理大概都會不及格"},{"start":12428.453,"end":12450.7,"text":"那我請問一下嬰幼兒食品跟一般食品到底有沒有區分嬰幼兒食品裡面我們針對只要列在嬰幼兒三歲以下都是用嬰幼兒食品副食品來管理但是假如它是點心它不是副食品它就不會是落在嬰幼兒的副食品的規格所以這個規格管理的過程當中我們認為有必須要重新去"},{"start":12452,"end":12475.592,"text":"討論跟思考的地方目前我們採取的是就是重研下架然後呢接下來呢我們其實也會提到過年到了嘛那個海苔其實會造成另外一個部分它到底是副食品還是簡單的點心而已那現在像這個海苔嬰幼兒食品跟一般食品它那個重金屬的標準到底有沒有一樣"},{"start":12476.212,"end":12505.011,"text":"不一樣只要是嬰幼兒就是非常非常嚴格對啊 所以一般食品所以我剛剛有講如果它是嬰幼兒食品的海苔它可能超標但是如果它是一般食品有可能它是沒有超標的對 一般的食品裡面我們去算過的話因為差了將近100到200倍對啊所以在一般民眾裡面3歲以上的等等非嬰幼兒它其實是可以接受的那在我們食品相關法規像這個海苔嬰幼兒食品跟一般食品"},{"start":12505.791,"end":12512.028,"text":"那我們再怎麼區分 看得出來嗎他怎麼去區分一般食品跟應用食品"},{"start":12512.635,"end":12539.057,"text":"報告委員因為全世界針對這議題我們最近收集的資訊大概是跟委員說明如果你一定要給嬰幼兒的你自己要標示那是給嬰幼兒的如果你有更高的所謂價位等等的取向或者爭取你就必須要符合嬰幼兒但是一般的食品不是在副食品的部分如果它沒有標示的話其實它是採取的是他們尊重消費者的使用的原則"},{"start":12539.818,"end":12559.937,"text":"那因为它摄取的量对婴幼儿来讲其实它不是在当副食品在吃副食品是一个转换类似我们本来喝奶的转换成为正常的大人的食物里面的这过程吃的量其实是高的那消费者如何区分一般食品跟婴幼儿食品"},{"start":12560.177,"end":12575.631,"text":"報告委員所以我們現在進一步的研議如果給嬰幼兒的你要正面標示你要強調給嬰幼兒你就必須要標示所以這是我們努力的方向所以沒有標示的話就是當一般食品是的那有沒有給嬰幼兒使用他沒有標註嬰幼兒的"},{"start":12577.234,"end":12598.486,"text":"現在我們要求的是希望能夠走向要給嬰幼兒的你就必須正面的表列加強標示在上面這是我們要去努力我覺得這部分真的要加強不然你看我們重點嬰幼兒因為嬰幼兒他本身身體器官絕對是比成人還脆弱所以我們對於重金屬跟這些"},{"start":12599.748,"end":12615.599,"text":"針梅菌數 針梅毒素這一部分我們的要求標準一定是比較高的是的那所以這一部分你一定要標示清楚啊那針對這一部分我們看我們難道沒有辦法向經濟部標檢局說針對玩具還有"},{"start":12619.361,"end":12644.367,"text":"兒童用品它有一個檢驗的標準而且有一個安全的規章甚至很明確看得到就是給兒童來使用難道我們這部分沒有辦法做嗎對 所以委員這邊的提醒也是我們在看國際在管理這件事情的時候陸陸續續看到國外有這樣子舉個例子韓國針對嬰幼兒的食品他們從今年1月1號開始去年的1月1號開始"},{"start":12645.347,"end":12664.307,"text":"才有去加强要求这样子标示的所以我们想说这也是一个重要的议题我们会持续的进进跟研议的所以我说我们经济部标准局都可以这样去做我相信我们卫福部食药署应该也做得到那是不是针对这部分一个月内可以回复我们研议后的做法"},{"start":12666.151,"end":12691.44,"text":"容我跟委員說因為食品這個部分其實影響的部分相對是比較大容我們多一點點時間我們在三個月內能夠把相關的研議跟委員做進一步報告對啊 我們要知道說你針對這部分已經知道有這個缺失那我們研議又怎麼去做我是建議應該設計一個專屬嬰幼兒的規章讓消費者很明確的可以知道而且我們現在這個業者"},{"start":12693.622,"end":12706.972,"text":"針對嬰幼兒食品還是一般食品的進口的部分我們到底怎麼去管制好像他要主動送驗我們才知道然後如果到市面上是抽驗到有問題才下架是不是這樣子"},{"start":12707.421,"end":12731.735,"text":"跟委員報告一下因為專屬號列裡面其實沒有針對嬰幼兒所以我們在跨部會裡面的研議裡面我們希望把這一塊能夠在研議之後有機會在真的是要給嬰幼兒你必須要怎麼標示而且是進口的時候就已經能夠確立分開來讓民眾在消費的時候在選擇嬰幼兒的食品的過程當中很清楚的可以了解這是我們在努力的我們希望這部分真的加強因為你看"},{"start":12732.495,"end":12757.791,"text":"我們這個嬰幼兒食品海苔的部分我們發現之後其實週刊也有爆料後來他們去檢查去市面上檢查後來發現很多的電商平台它這些的嬰幼兒食品很多也是重金屬超標那針對這一部分是不是一樣像電商平台這一部分我們也沒有辦法主動去管理"},{"start":12758.712,"end":12783.648,"text":"報告委員我們其實針對電商平台裡面的標示只要是嬰幼兒的部分我們就有類似或者推論他們是應該要給嬰幼兒或者暗示要給嬰幼兒的使用我們目前的做法是如果是這個就以嚴格的標準來去做管制可是電商平台它市面上沒有販售你怎麼去檢查那等於消費者買到或者你主動去買來抽驗"},{"start":12785.996,"end":12807.451,"text":"對 我們其實有一部分是這種架構的形式看到是網路的巡查 然後架構尤其現在特定的議題非常非常的需要我們去了解的時候我們的同仁是採取這種方式那整體的規劃我們還是希望能夠是在進口裡面的所謂的關稅上面的分折號列能夠達成這樣的效果所以我也提醒 電商平台這一部分"},{"start":12807.951,"end":12825.099,"text":"目前市面上沒有販售 它是輸入的都是等到消費者買到實用那我們食藥署變成要去主動那業者在這一部分如果他沒有主動去送驗其實我們食藥署也是並不知道他有沒有超標的 對不對"},{"start":12826.36,"end":12849.498,"text":"而我們針對現代食品所有食品其實不能說完全靠檢驗但是我們的規格裡面業者必須要對於自己的產品符合這個規定才能夠上架所以我們在目前的研議裡面賦予業者以及電商平台共同針對他們食品是否合規合法要進一步的去研議以及加強的管理"},{"start":12850.018,"end":12877.573,"text":"所以希望這一部分尤其我們嬰幼兒食品它現在我們市面上的可以去查驗那電商平台這一部分看怎麼去加強不然我們覺得嬰幼兒這一部分因為它本身比較脆弱那如果像這些食品裡面有重金屬 農藥殘留 污染物甚至三聚氰胺等等都會造成對他們身體非常嚴重的影響這一部分那就三個月內"},{"start":12878.453,"end":12905.429,"text":"提供研議後的做法是的謝謝委員的指導好那最後再請問一下我們次長剛剛次長今天有來我想請問一下像我們現在網路市面上有看到很多的偽藥廣告那針對這一部分我們檢察署都有出來為食藥署說明它這個是偽藥可是"},{"start":12906.618,"end":12914.076,"text":"你看我們這個提供的資料它已經出來說是尾要可是我們現在網路上我看它還是繼續在販售"},{"start":12916.473,"end":12944.832,"text":"我們會立刻到那個我們網路巡查那邊尋到的話我們會請相關的這個社群媒體業者把他下架所以我現在不了解的是你看我們在高雄地檢署在2025年7月14號就發新聞稿讓大眾知道這個網紅賣的尾要結果我們在2026年1月到現在整整半年在網路上還有廣告而且還買得到而且還可以訂購"},{"start":12946.073,"end":12968.534,"text":"那我不知道說我們是不是衛福部跟司法機關都沒有做橫向的聯繫而且居然檢察署出來幫食藥署說這個偽藥的成分在幫我們衛福部在做事我們這偽藥的部分其實如果是確定是偽藥的話我們都會跟社群媒體這邊要求它下架這個依法我們可以處理"},{"start":12969.127,"end":12997.102,"text":"那希望市長了解一下 這已經半年囉檢查署都已經公開說它是偽藥 偽藥的成分我們固定會去做網路巡查有查到我們就會通知對那個社群媒體把它下架而且還有民眾說不但原先的沒下架 它現在還出加強版還2.0 plus這個案子我們回去請我們相關的這個同仁去所以我希望衛福部加強一下司法機關已經公告是偽藥結果我們衛福部完全沒有作為"},{"start":12998.975,"end":13026.426,"text":"所以我希望說是不是針對這部分我們要了解一下檢察署都已經公開發新聞稿半年了網路上還在打廣告還在販售還可以訂購報告委員這個應該是食品一般的食品偽裝成藥品所以我們針對網路上面偽裝的這樣子的我們在網路巡查以及刻意這販售的業者以及平台我們希望能夠加強巡查以外遮蔽同時會所以我們不知道問題在哪裡"},{"start":13027.306,"end":13054.696,"text":"你看2025年7月14号地检署就公开说明这个网红卖的是伪药以他上面写的这个成分其实他的问题在于他是用食品然后宣称为药品那食品宣称为药品事实上就违反我们相关的法规对啊我们看他的广告用语跟宣传的内容他们都是用暗示明示很明确违反药事法跟食品安全卫生管理法主要是药事法"},{"start":13055.816,"end":13080.842,"text":"對 這部分我希望衛福部來了解一下我們會針對這一個產品我們會請同仁在就是說社群平台上再搜尋一下那有搜尋到我們就請他下架我相信這個可能不是單一個案啦類似像這種情形我覺得我們衛福部還是要掌握一下我們固定其實有網路巡查對啊 那有檢察署都已經發新聞稿公告結果半年以後還在賣 還出加強版這真的是 我覺得這一個笑話"},{"start":13081.582,"end":13108.599,"text":"也請大家就是真的要麻煩各位民眾就是說在網路上面不要聽信網路上面這一些他用宣稱或者是用這個暗示民視有藥效可是他實際上登記為食品的東西好 希望衛福部這一部分跟檢察署看是不是有個來聯繫的機制這個平台怎麼建立他已經發新聞稿結果市面上還在販售我覺得這對食藥署我覺得不是好事我們會積極來處理希望衛福部來加強一下"},{"start":13111.241,"end":13137.674,"text":"謝謝委員好 謝謝圖委員 謝謝次長接下來請鄭振成委員 鄭振全委員 鄭振全委員不在請林月琴委員主席麻煩我們的次長來 次長委員好上午好 那首先"},{"start":13140.307,"end":13157.096,"text":"我很支持這次的修法的方向因為大家都不想看到缺藥物發生之後才來救火可是這也是台灣韌性台灣藥品韌性的一個很重要環節所以我今天第一件事情就是問你的申報制度到底要怎麼做才會有用為什麼"},{"start":13158.317,"end":13176.289,"text":"定期申報到底要怎麼操作如果頻率定的太密中小型的藥商行政負擔會加重更重要的是申報要報什麼才能夠看得到風險先是立法通過後授權主管機關另定辦法所以想問的是說"},{"start":13176.969,"end":13196.085,"text":"後續配套辦法當中是否會有明確評估申報的頻率跟藥品風險的等級的關聯性還有以及如何平衡廠商的儲存的一個成本會不會有獎勵廠商拉高庫存的措施所以部長你們目前的初步規劃是什麼"},{"start":13196.325,"end":13217.405,"text":"好 謝謝委員真的這個部分我們事實上也希望能夠補強相關的法源然後再來我們在另外那個藥品認証的案子裡面希望能夠支持廠商有一些必要的不論是它的相關的成本或者是相關的這些投資那我們在這個部分裡面我們其實就像剛剛委員提到的查查就是說申報的頻率我們會針對它有一些不同的風險"},{"start":13218.166,"end":13244.39,"text":"因為有些藥品他可能就只有單一兩家藥廠他一旦任何一家藥廠出問題我們大概就會供應上有問題那有些他可能比較多家藥廠或是他在市面上他的類似用藥或同成分用藥比較多那這個部分我們在頻率上可能就可以稍微比較不那麼嚴格那我們在這邊目前所設置的目前所有目前大概是以每一劑來做申報但是有一些高風險的我們會有一些比較明確的在持續跟這些廠商做一些監督跟管理"},{"start":13244.77,"end":13261.486,"text":"所以我覺得衛福要有清楚規劃因為有時候我剛剛也提過如果中小型的藥商他行政負擔會加重如果你每一季有去考慮到這些嗎因為把這套制度做成早知道早介入早調度的工具的話而不是事後追查的一個工具我們希望能夠提早預計"},{"start":13262.046,"end":13278.409,"text":"而且也跟我們報告就是說過去也因為其實我們也很感謝廠商跟機構還有相關學協會都一起要來維持我們的供應韌性所以事實上有一些藥品我們也知道有一些藥廠他會提早告訴我們提早告訴我們之後我們會找學協會來了解尤其在找健保署"},{"start":13278.629,"end":13301.252,"text":"就是會知道說目前藥品的使用量使用狀況那學協會也會提供一些資訊告訴我們說他們事實上已經有哪些類同樣的成分的藥品他們是可以替換來使用的那這樣這個就比較簡單那如果是單一藥廠或者是特定藥廠的一些藥品這個部分頻率可能就會加的比較頻繁一點再來重大事件的時候政府要有調度權我了解我也支持"},{"start":13301.872,"end":13318.007,"text":"可是我的重點很簡單授權可以可是規則一樣要講清楚第一你們要怎麼界定只有在極端情境才啟動限制供應所以這樣可不可以把原則講清楚避免外界現在質疑把緊急權利變成常態工具"},{"start":13319.133,"end":13335.995,"text":"其實因為事實上在平常的狀況各藥廠之間的供應事實上就是大家有一個調度的機制那事實上我們這個主要是因應一個事情是在重大或緊急重大影響公共事件公共事件第一個部分是在WHO他有對於國際關注突發公共事件他有一些定義"},{"start":13336.596,"end":13358.582,"text":"那第一個當然我們會針對這個定義來做來做相關的這個就是我第二個要問的立法說明就是希望廠商為公益挺身那我就要問你們要怎麼設計配套讓廠商配合調度的時候不會被合約罰款追著跑因為廠商跟醫院大半都有供貨的一個合約醫院又是強勢的買方如果政府在缺藥時要求藥商"},{"start":13360.723,"end":13387.966,"text":"把原本要供应给某些单位的药改播到其他地方那厂商可能就是面临到违约那罚款的一些风险在这些风险如果全部都丢给厂商的话最后就是厂商干脆我们注销市占不高的药证不做了那结果更缺药所以市长是不是可以讲清楚说你们面对这个可执行可负担可预期你们的制度是不是对"},{"start":13388.606,"end":13412.515,"text":"廠商來講事實上是可執行可負擔可預期而且至少要讓業者知道說配合政府不會換來被罰被黑名單被迫退出報告委員其實就是因為我們過去在緊急狀況或者是特殊專案進口的時候那個調度都是我們自己跟敢勇拜託的廠商他手頭上沒有相關法源可以確保他們在合約的部分可以因為政府的調度而得到相關的保障"},{"start":13413.155,"end":13429.067,"text":"所以其實過去也跟委員很誠實的講2024年那時候生理的鹹水我們在調度過程都是我們都感謝各個廠商是配合我們然後我們還行文給各醫療機構說因為這個原因所以他們配合我們調度所以那個合約的部分要請各位各個醫療院所用我們這個所發的這個函"},{"start":13431.849,"end":13457.883,"text":"能夠讓藥廠不要因為過去的合約受到限制跟影響事實上過去是用這個方式處理所以這次的修法事實上去補強這個東西就是說當這些緊急或重大影響公共衛生事件的時候因為這個事件發生了所以這一些部分由我們食藥署來做相關的調度那這個調度的過程中因為廠商配合我們這個法源的調度所以各醫療機構原先跟他們的這個相關的合約就能夠有我們這邊的授權來做處理"},{"start":13458.863,"end":13481.177,"text":"因為我覺得真的他們願意配合政府的就不應該是讓他們承擔風險所以過去就是因為沒有這個法源這次我們把法源補上謝謝委員史博長去年18月的時候說今年1月開始要鼓勵國產學民要使用量達到70%而且從化療的學民要擴大到所有癌症學民要請問這樣是不是可以能夠"},{"start":13482.498,"end":13488.883,"text":"我們的敦促健保署趕快儘快公告上路預計大家什麼時候上路這已經公告了已經公告上路了嗎"},{"start":13491.781,"end":13517.652,"text":"來 可不可以說明一下因為大家都很擔心 一直怎麼都還沒有結果好 那報告主席跟各位委員那我們那個生物相似性藥跟化療學名藥的部分在去年呢下半年我們在8月的時候也已經有公告9月開始實施的這個化療學名藥 癌藥的化學治療的學名藥的部分那今年會再擴大把全部癌藥的學名藥一起規劃進來"},{"start":13518.792,"end":13543.674,"text":"是 好 謝謝再來我要問的是未成年用藥的問題那首先上週我們莊瑞雄委員詢問部長說瘦瘦真的亂象部長說要加強管理那部長也說瘦瘦真的取得一定要有醫師的處方簽我想長年我們調查也顯示說容貌跟身材焦慮常常是青少年前三名的一個煩惱在"},{"start":13544.915,"end":13569.009,"text":"所以我现在就收到国高中生来跟我分享说有同学没有透过正确的医师评估跟处方签的管道就跟着家人一起在使用瘦瘦针那甚至自己存钱在网路上去购买来入不明的一个针剂所以这样我问题很直接就是说现在瘦瘦针这么多款而且哪些是可以让未成年使用又哪些会有限制"},{"start":13569.409,"end":13594.969,"text":"对未成年人的影响评估是什么那再来卫福部要不要有一个明确的说法公告让家长跟青少年不是上网Google问或问ChatGBT然后卫福部是不是可以直接宣导说怎么去理解搜索人到底对未成年的影响是什么还有使用限制以及什么是正确的我们的减重观念我想我们直接先讲就是说这是一个药品"},{"start":13595.869,"end":13623.381,"text":"藥品就是要經過專科醫師依照病人的需求是不是符合適應症評估之後開藥然後這個開藥之後還要由藥師這邊來協助給予用藥指導這個是標準用藥程序所以像現在提到的大家自己上網路去買或者是團購它這就是違法行為而且這個過程中很有可能用到的是偽藥或者是假藥可是抓得到嗎所以我認為這件事情真的要慎重處理因為現在已經未為"},{"start":13623.681,"end":13647.75,"text":"也要再补充一个资讯就是说其实为什么在我们对于儿童或青少年的这个用药要更加的谨慎那我们也相信说这个过程中其实不论是内分泌科或者是这个我们讲儿科医师在给药的部分我们会希望他们能够他们这边其实会比较能够照专业处理那这个药品因为目前的研究发现停了药之后有些人他如果本身的习惯没有改变他会有反弹性的腹胖"},{"start":13648.71,"end":13663.447,"text":"所以这个部分也是为什么说其他用药是一个协助目前我们讲的病态性肥胖的病人会有帮助但是其他的民众或者是甚至没有到病态性肥胖的病人最重要的事情还是他的饮食建议跟相关的行为改变市长我很关心的"},{"start":13663.547,"end":13687.462,"text":"是青少年那现在青少年已经在使用我刚刚讲说他们对于容貌跟身材就实际上是焦虑的而且是他们的前三名所以是不是请卫福部两周内把公告或新闻稿处理好把未成年使用受受针的规范跟风险讲清楚让家长跟青少年看得懂查得到我觉得这些蛮重要因为已经事实上不是少数的人在使用"},{"start":13687.622,"end":13697.153,"text":"我以为这个部分是不是我们跟包含儿科医学会还有我们讲的内分泌相关的学习协会那一起来处理这个声明好不好两周内最后"},{"start":13700.743,"end":13719.332,"text":"社工是在幫政府把社會福利落地在第一線照顧弱勢處境的民眾政府既然靠社工落實社會福利然後政府就有責任把社工照顧好上週嘉義市花蓮縣社會工作人員職業工會已經發文反映說一個月的薪資延遲發放的問題"},{"start":13724.995,"end":13751.328,"text":"市長你們到底有沒有理解因為現在還有哪些縣市也同樣有狀況因為這邊在臉書催都一直不斷的有開始在談到這個課題那這些狀況裡面哪些是約定好一月就是會晚發的是哪些是根本就沒有按期發放是否你現在是否有所有縣市真的都確定去發薪水了嗎因為我從上週三接到社工來告訴我之後我就開始問你們"},{"start":13752.128,"end":13779.567,"text":"可是问了今天快一周了所以你可不可以先回答我也就是说这几个问题你是要请社工师的组织的那个单位来回答呢还是有资料给我这边先跟委员做报告我想我们还是要再一次强调就是说希望各县市政府社工是各县市政府最重要的人力资产请各县市政府这边要能够在相关程序上面来协助那我们现在到我们在1月16号的资料里面"},{"start":13782.009,"end":13796.827,"text":"當時還沒有完成發行的縣市是花蓮跟澎湖那他們給我們的資料是最晚今天會完成那其他的15個縣市是在5日之前有發行那另外的話就是說台東彰化連江嘉義跟雲林縣是16號之前發行"},{"start":13797.748,"end":13824.934,"text":"次長薪水延遲發放從勞基法精神來看就是一件很嚴重的事情從對一般家庭來講孩子的補習費房租費然後水電費這些每一筆都有一些期限沒有誰可以跟你講說我行政流程比較慢你先等等如果講還有16 19今天都已經我們的叫月中了所以從現在狀況下來看的話有些縣市的聘用社工每次到1月"},{"start":13825.874,"end":13854.231,"text":"因為聽他們講說今年不是單一不是第一次過往都是這樣都是用行政因素把顏值發放薪水變成一個好像可以被接受的事情更奇怪的是不是每個縣市都這樣如果說今天全台灣22個縣市都這樣不是就是部分縣市所以明明三分之二的縣市都能夠準時發薪的話那代表這不是一定做不到而是沒有把它當一回事人家每一筆錢都是等著家庭的花用"},{"start":13854.931,"end":13869.567,"text":"有人可以延遲嗎因為如果今天房東可以讓我延遲說繳房租嗎不可能嘛所以我也知道你等一下可能會跟我講說這不是社工這是縣市聘用人員都會遇到的要去找全系部還有人事總處來處理可是市長"},{"start":13871.95,"end":13891.532,"text":"你們身為一個全國社工的主管機關我要求你們不要把責任往外推而且是要先回答衛福部自己能做什麼的問題也就是你們到底可以做什麼我說今天已經不是常態他過往就是這樣每次碰到一月就有這種狀況所以也不要跟我講說你們已經發文要求這類的空話明年是不是又要再發生"},{"start":13892.173,"end":13914.84,"text":"因為現實延遲的這個狀況還是持續今天我說今年不是第一年所以如果民間團體假設我們如果民間社福團體這樣做的話你們政府就馬上就來要求救責然後甚至有罰則那現在輪到你們自己系統裡面出現這樣子一月延遲發放薪水而且到月中才給的話你們要拿出什麼樣的更積極的作為可不可以"},{"start":13915.92,"end":13934.586,"text":"檢討你社福績效考核的項目把這個放進去把社工權益跟身心健康保障放進去更積極的要求各縣市還是你們準備用什麼方式來確保這件事情明年不會再發生我們就像剛剛委員提到的我們有我們把相關的社福考核這個部分列入其中一個評估好不好讓我們把它評估看看"},{"start":13935.226,"end":13957.861,"text":"不過我覺得真的我們每一個人都是領薪水過日子的人不要讓社工在赤字巴望著你們的一月薪水要下來然後呢還要自己墊腳房租做這些事情甚至搞不好去借款也是非常希望地方政府因為我們其實給的這些談判就是希望地方政府可以來落實就像您說的有的縣市做得到有的縣市做不到所以我覺得"},{"start":13959.102,"end":13970.332,"text":"請問服務就你們可以做到的部分兩週內研議好你們相關的一些措施然後提供給我們辦公室兩週好謝謝再請黃修翁委員來做懸導謝謝主席我們請次長來請次長"},{"start":13989.497,"end":14016.129,"text":"市長好市長我先就剛剛有幾位委員有特別提到其實我我們現在不論是打開電視或者是收音機或者是網路其實都可以看到很多的健康食品那健康食品都聲稱這個這個功效很好我相信市長你應該自己也有看過甚至那個一個廣告可能就是5分鐘以上的那我不知道說市長針對這一部分你們有什麼樣的"},{"start":14017.349,"end":14038.698,"text":"因應措施甚至我有聽過就是說有的藥廠或者是做健康食品他們反正他們也不怕法他們賺的更多所以我不知道說市長你針對這一部分你們未來要怎麼去規範這件事情我跟署長這邊我們其實都是支持要更嚴格來看待因為這邊實在是過去灰色地帶太多我是請署長說明一下"},{"start":14040.66,"end":14057.018,"text":"這邊跟委員進一步說明我們食品現在就一般食品跟健康食品因為是在健康食品向下去管理現在食品有400多項接近30年的時間的管理所以我去年2月份來了之後發現它是重要的議題"},{"start":14057.619,"end":14073.636,"text":"所以我們加強研議希望把現在所謂的保健相關食品為什麼叫保健相關食品因為都宣稱是保健食品因為健康食品要有保健功效所以他就把保健食品就納進去的想法在我的想法裡面應該要把那一塊做積極的納管"},{"start":14075.058,"end":14089.33,"text":"所以署內針對這件事情希望能夠在保健相關食品在我們一般食品健康食品中間有一個類似國際其他國家管理的相次叫做功能性相關食品的所以在這樣子之下把我們世紀上的所謂的"},{"start":14090.211,"end":14114.244,"text":"特定的成分特定的含量它潛在的可能保健跟身體的功效可以宣稱的部分能夠納管所以我們今年一月份也連續舉辦了已經完成兩場第三場就是我們相關的食品保健相關的食品功能性相關食品如何去做所謂廣告宣傳宣稱以及它的詞句可以說明做積極的輔導"},{"start":14115.393,"end":14131.864,"text":"那這個兩天的行程跟委員報告其實非常非常多的業者包括是工協會的包括是學校老師能夠去了解我們希望納管的範圍我想在這樣的納管情形之下如果納管之後還有很多的"},{"start":14132.364,"end":14155.07,"text":"所謂的不合規的部分我們現在是積極的是裁罰裁罰的部分過去裁罰相對少後來變成嚴重程度重複程度以及它的時間的程度我們反而甚至有上百萬的一個廣告不合規的廣告我們目前是持續的把這個部分做積極的納管在進行當中其實我相信次長跟署長你們"},{"start":14158.231,"end":14182.599,"text":"應該收音機 電視 網路其實真的是非常的嚴重所以很多人會覺得說這不可以很好賺一個觀念就不可以很好賺甚至在電台上面不論是清晨的從清晨現在打開收音機開車的時候打開收音機你聽到幾乎每一台都是在賣健康保健食品所以我都覺得說"},{"start":14184.277,"end":14204.332,"text":"台灣人 醫療要就醫其實也都蠻方便的有必要去買一些過心臟的、通血路的非常多所以我覺得這一個區塊應該要去更積極的來管理不然真的有的人就是很愛買的買的可能吃了對身體也不一定好"},{"start":14207.995,"end":14228.813,"text":"委员说得好其实我自己以前临床常跟病人讲台湾这样子营养充分资源充分你要吃什么都吃得到食品这么多的一个国家还需要吃营养补充品是一件不太合理的事情可能某些情况之下因为自己身体的某些状况他可能需要某些补充品或像刚刚署长提到我们以后变成是一个功能食品但是"},{"start":14230.234,"end":14254.345,"text":"其实它现在很多都是以食品在贩卖那用食安法用食品的贩卖的方式来用暗示它有疗效所以像剛才有人说的帮老公这个广播里面说没有啊其实它根本就不是有啊它是用食品让你吃感觉上自己好像在吃一个比药物更好的东西这是非常不合理的事情我自己在过去听广播我还有检举过我自己听完之后拿给食药署检举"},{"start":14254.605,"end":14271.484,"text":"所以我覺得說應該要更積極的去管理是 我們會積極管理那另外還有一項這也是我最近在地方聽到的我想說先講就是說我們在去年通過那個80歲免巴士量表就是可以聘用就是用這樣子可以聘用那個外籍的這個看護工那"},{"start":14274.187,"end":14290.096,"text":"現在目前有很多的造福員在跟我講他們的案量減少而且減少的非常的多所以我希望就是說次長針對這一部分你們應該要去做一個調查到底我們這個政策下去之後那對造福員是不是有很大的影響"},{"start":14291.156,"end":14319.51,"text":"这一块我们其实因为之前有跟劳动部这边在捞就是说那个照服员还有移工这边的流动那这个部分我们会持续监控那当然其实主要就是说第一个希望能够让我们的原来照服员他的工作服务不受影响第二个部分的话其实就希望说我们的高龄长者能够受到比较好的照顾不过其实还是真的我们还是要趁机讲一下照服员这边他受过的相关训练跟专业能力我相信他们能够提供给我们高龄长者比较好的照顾"},{"start":14320.471,"end":14339.887,"text":"这个我是听到一部分那我希望就是说你们应该要去这个调查一下到底是影响是什么样的影响那到底影响有多大这我们会回去盘那接下来我想请教就是说今天我们在讨论这个药事法的部分条文修正草案那我记得在前两年就是我们的那个生理实验水"},{"start":14340.467,"end":14356.621,"text":"真的非常誇張就是說沒有生理食鹽水可用那像當然這個修正草案通過之後當然可以更進一步提早知道什麼樣的藥品缺那可以及早因應那我想請教就是說"},{"start":14357.902,"end":14378.831,"text":"未來我們原本就是說要求這個廠商在停產或者是缺貨的這個之前6個月要去回報那如果是不可抗力的因素導致短缺或斷貨就是要求30日前要通報那這個修正草案通過之後那我們要怎麼樣去跟這些業者"},{"start":14379.651,"end":14402.565,"text":"去溝通可以讓他們真的萬一碰到事情的時候可以更積極然後可以真的可以去解決要不然其實我們立法之後如果沒有很積極再去處理的話其實空有這樣的一個法條其實我覺得也沒什麼用所以我可不可以請次長針對這部分未來你們是不是有跟業者已經有一個協調那有一個方向是不是"},{"start":14402.745,"end":14421.041,"text":"其實因為現在其實持續都有跟業者這邊在溝通那有一些業者過去因為我們這邊有兩個部分必要藥品我們本來就有規定他們要通報但是有一些是沒有放在必要藥品裡面的但是可能也是民眾使用量很大的一些藥品所以我們這次包含第一個是希望完備就是說有一些藥品能夠提早能夠預知"},{"start":14421.681,"end":14442.704,"text":"再來必要藥品這邊當然它如果不可抗力事項因為什麼傳奇因為等等也能夠提早讓我們知道我們能夠來跟健保署這邊去勾結相關的用量有沒有其他的藥品可以趕快能夠來提供供應因為有的藥品它可能有好幾家廠商都是一樣的藥效那這樣過去我們都尊重市場機制但是如果某一家藥廠沒有辦法供應的時候其他藥廠可以供進來大概是這個部分"},{"start":14443.064,"end":14465.059,"text":"那当然这里面我们的这个评估跟短缺当然还是有一个重点是说我们希望在另外我们提出来药品任性那个计划能够强化国内自己的供应链因为很多它可能是国内的原料要断了或者是国外进来断了那我们希望减少这个部分的发生当然如果是药厂这边及早发现有这些问题及早让我们知道我们来协助做因应"},{"start":14466.059,"end":14487.232,"text":"市長 針對就是說之前在二五戰爭的時候那有一些藥品可能就是短缺嘛那很多國家他們也希望說這個藥品能夠在地化透過這個行政命令或者是用法令的規範就是藥品就是在地化那針對這一部分我們有沒有這樣的一個規範或是未來就朝著這樣的一個方向來進行"},{"start":14487.981,"end":14505.829,"text":"那跟我原作進一步說明我們這一次除了藥事法修訂以外我們在藥物韌性計畫四年的計畫當中其實對於藥品不管是我們的學名藥製劑或者是我們的什麼原料藥在地方落地其實我們是重要的工作的相似裡面希望能夠增加我們的韌性"},{"start":14506.529,"end":14521.836,"text":"至於剛才特別提到說我們對於業者或者盤商或者是藥商如何去針對我們要提供訊息的我們目前原則上是大概是希望一劑但是每個藥它的供應的特性會不同"},{"start":14522.336,"end":14537.096,"text":"会经过里面会有更短的甚至会大部分都是长会有更短的那这个其实药商其实在协调的过程中我们其实要积极的听取他们的意见他们的困难能够达到任性才是我们最主要的目的"},{"start":14537.577,"end":14555.409,"text":"那次長我再詢問一下就是說最近有一些媽媽他們在講說這個嬰兒奶粉就是這個廠牌的嬰兒奶粉品質有出現疑慮那在市面上確實有的嬰兒他原本是吃這個廠牌的那確實也買不到可能這個"},{"start":14556.77,"end":14576.349,"text":"店家有說可能要等到3月份那我不知道說食藥署針對這一部分有沒有接到什麼樣的訊息或者是我們國內針對這一部分是不是這個奶粉有污染的或者是預防下架我不知道說我們衛福部有沒有針對這一部分來做一個要求業者就是說預防下架的一個"},{"start":14577.41,"end":14597.476,"text":"跟委員報告就是說當時接到廠商這樣的資訊因為我們自己食藥署也會跟國際上面一直去看國外有沒有這樣的資訊所以我們發現這件事情之後立刻署長這邊就立刻跟廠商這邊去詢問那個受汙染那個批號有沒有進來台灣後來我們調查起來是沒有進來一開始的時候12月份他們announce國際的"},{"start":14597.896,"end":14613.288,"text":"我們在第一時間裡面其實我們在邊境的輸入的就可以抓到批號是對不起來沒有那除了我們確定以外他們也同時確定到1月份的時候呢香港部分有另外有批號進來所以他們做了一件事情1月6號來這邊做了簡單的說明"},{"start":14616.71,"end":14630.995,"text":"他們選擇的是趕快進去驗到底有沒有所謂的仙人桿菌素這個污染毒素在裡面驗起來沒有但是我強調的一件事情你驗沒有跟你有沒有進來是兩件事情最後他們在確立"},{"start":14632.415,"end":14651.451,"text":"是沒辦法排除這個供應鏈的情形之下呢就直接下架所以我們要求他們說要清楚的知道你的供應鏈裡面加上我們對起來的因為進來的批號裡面到底是哪些批號是他們總公司給他們的訊息是哪些批號但是我們有看到相對的是有進來持續他們進來這是大廠嘛"},{"start":14653.493,"end":14672.567,"text":"持续进来里面到底是什么对象那后来他们说他们不是很确定虽然他们在预防性下降以外他们在后市场端先前他自己也验实际上是没有毒素的但是他们在企业的社会责任我说你必须在没有办法实在不能完全靠检验的情形之下你必须要"},{"start":14673.528,"end":14687.36,"text":"對自己負責所以他們會玩就選擇就是好那就整個下架我想在整個的管理過程中至於國內目前的嬰兒的奶粉的部分目前是沒有特別提到通報上短缺的一些議題因為有的媽媽他就是買這個廠牌的然後"},{"start":14690.302,"end":14706.532,"text":"所以大家就會想說到底是因為什麼樣的原因那也擔心就是說買了之後小孩吃了出現問題所以我們也希望就是說針對食的安全然後用藥安全我覺得這個是食藥署真的非常重大的一個課題那也感謝我們這個次長跟署長謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":14710.523,"end":14731.314,"text":"好 謝謝 接下來請鄭天才委員 鄭天才委員 鄭天才委員不在請徐欣穎委員 徐欣穎委員 徐欣穎委員不在我們請陳穎委員來做懸打我們中午就不休息了 還是要休息不休息了"},{"start":14732.883,"end":14749.054,"text":"因為沒有人可以問 只有妳可以問而已不好意思 那我們就不休息請黨團的助理聯絡一下所以我問到不休息對 妳可以看妳可以怎樣問好 謝謝主席那個麻煩請我們衛福部次長還有食藥署署長委員好"},{"start":14757.888,"end":14780.869,"text":"兩位好缺藥跟缺原料是全球共同的問題那本席也很高興在疫情過後衛福部有相當正視這個問題所以食藥署在2024年1月31號的時候呢就已經發布了這個藥品供應監測系統而且已經上線啟用那當然主要的目的"},{"start":14781.349,"end":14806.321,"text":"是為了要持續強化主動監測跟協調藥品妥善分配確保藥品穩定供應那因此針對這個系統本席有幾個問題要請教那當初這個藥品供應的監測系統呢最初鎖定參與的這個對象是哪些那大概全台全台有幾家"},{"start":14808.798,"end":14828.119,"text":"跟委員這邊做進一步說明我們當初希望能夠是供應端的能夠知道所以第一件事情就是我們相關的盤商盤商其實是協助把藥品送到醫療院所等等的這個過程當中所以這是一塊我們現在能夠精準的比較掌握的"},{"start":14828.76,"end":14851.121,"text":"那我們持續的希望他能夠除了這以外我們目前在藥物韌性計畫裡面能夠把更多的資訊能夠導入所以我們有一個叫做藥物智慧導入的邏輯的以及存在的系統所以那個供應端大概基本上就是包括這個大型藥廠啦還有這些大型的裝盤商等等"},{"start":14851.832,"end":14875.469,"text":"目前有14家那因為當初一開始參與的時候我們接到的資訊是大型中盤商的家數你們當初發布的時候一開始只有12家那現在有14家了那這樣子的但在我們全台就是你有統計過我們有多少的大型藥廠跟多少的大型中盤商"},{"start":14878.348,"end":14902.997,"text":"對 針對這個議題謝謝委員我們就想盡辦法在進口商的部分是另外一部分我們能夠知道也希望能夠在醫院端能夠取得對啊 那你有沒有統計過大約的數據這個大型的大概都已經包含在裡面但是有一部分的其實是我們要持續在溝通的當中好 那如果說好幾百我這樣子的這樣子的估計有這麼多嗎"},{"start":14905.046,"end":14913.054,"text":"而那是藥廠的部分我們在盤商的部分其實是大型的盤商在比較確立的是比較集中那目前是這樣子的狀況"},{"start":14914.749,"end":14943.23,"text":"對那所以不是因為你們既然有這個監測系統我竟然問不出大概起碼就是說那有多少是不方便跟委員我們大概是從後面的量藥品的劑量大概是接近九成的量八到九成的涵蓋量就是說我們沒有涵蓋每一家但是整體在健保系統裡面的供應的量大概涵蓋有八到九成但中間還是有需要努力的地方"},{"start":14944.088,"end":14960.598,"text":"對 所以我還是聽不太懂就是那個量你的量大概有多少你說實際的加數對啊加數的部分我這就幾家中本山14家是在裡面還有其他什麼加數"},{"start":14963.709,"end":14986.158,"text":"還有社區藥局的我想這個部分是還沒有完全涵蓋委員是很精確的所以如果連社區藥局都是的話那我問你加速應該我想你們要做這個監測系統最起碼基本的這些加速數據你們應該要很精確的掌握吧所以我說好幾百應該也不過分"},{"start":14987.228,"end":15007.026,"text":"跟委員報告因為這些藥局其實都是靠盤商送去的我理解所以你如果可以很具體告訴我盤商有哪些盤商目前我們是涵蓋了14家盤商14家所以你說14家有涵蓋率90%80%到90%接近90%的所有的健保的使用藥物好那"},{"start":15012.346,"end":15039.524,"text":"這個平台的運作方式我先記住你剛剛講的涵蓋率80%到90%這個平台的運作方式是由合作大型中盤藥商每天將藥品庫存資料借接導入我用大型中盤藥商基本上是根據你們的新聞稿的文字"},{"start":15042.206,"end":15062.593,"text":"就是這個具備這個查詢介面然後供這個職業的藥事人員查詢所需藥品然後於這個合作中盤藥商之供應情形那將有助這個基層藥局及診所取得所需的藥品來保障民眾用藥的權益那這裡面的問題是"},{"start":15065.894,"end":15092.067,"text":"大型的醫療院所它所需求的藥品可能跟這個基層藥局的診所不太一樣像剛剛講因為藥局畢竟我們都比較可以垂手可得那他們負責的可能是直接就大型醫療院所負責的可能是直接跟這個嚴重疾病或者是涉及生命安全的藥品有關那跟民眾的用藥是不太一樣的"},{"start":15093.448,"end":15114.041,"text":"所以是不是這個系統對於大型醫療院所用的藥實際上並沒有監測到或者監測不足這個部分委員其實講得非常精準我們針對有一塊醫院裡面的所謂的藥品的部分我們採用的方式是"},{"start":15115.502,"end":15135.03,"text":"希望能夠在健保的部分使用量能夠借階能夠知道它實際上的我們需要的是它的量的走勢那至於我們在社區藥局裡面還是有一大部分比例特別是我們連續處方籤的一些所謂的代謝性疾病的使用高血壓糖尿液等等所以這個部分是有可能是重複一點點"},{"start":15136.05,"end":15141.357,"text":"就是說對我們這個監測我從我開始質詢到現在我一直聽到監測這個量這個量但對於我們這個藥品的這個"},{"start":15148.392,"end":15172.368,"text":"種類或類別的這個藥品其實我們比較可以看到的是它的量所以那個大型醫院所提供的藥品必要藥品跟我們一般在藥房可以取得的或使用的其實這個就有一些差別了我想這個部分會不會就有疏漏到"},{"start":15172.928,"end":15193.918,"text":"或者您說的也重疊到跟委員先報告就是說在藥品供應上面來講其實我們一直要求就是比較大型的醫療院所它其實跟相關的藥品廠商這邊它的契約是非常重要的一件事因為它這邊的契約才能夠穩定的持續供應這些大型醫療院所它量比較大或是某些剛剛委員提到的"},{"start":15194.258,"end":15219.759,"text":"某些比較特定的藥品他自己跟藥廠之間的契約來確保他的合約供應那再來剛剛提到我們這個中間這個系統事實上在盤商這邊事實上是協助包含比較中小型或者是我們的這一個基層的藥局去確保他們這邊的運作能夠有一定程度的供應大概是這兩個部分對這個我理解因為那確實你們這個新聞稿大概我想我提問大概也依據你們發布的訊息來提問那"},{"start":15222.162,"end":15240.059,"text":"我們換一個角度來看就是說我們如何來鼓勵這個藥廠的參與參與這個藥品存量的通報畢竟就是說每日通報的人事行政成本是不低的"},{"start":15240.78,"end":15262.786,"text":"那甚至呢這個可能還有這個校期的問題啊政策沒有說明清楚啦等等那就是說他行政成本不低以外那你們到底有沒有誘因那政府對於這個藥商通報的正確性好像也沒有那個立場去苛責嘛我不曉得你們的看法是什麼"},{"start":15264.588,"end":15281.12,"text":"報告委員 針對現在我們需要的希望能夠可靜性所以是採用電腦拋接的形式讓它的行政成本能夠以最低的行政成本能夠達到這樣的效果那第二個部分是對於藥商裡面假如是不可苛責 比如說傳奇"},{"start":15282.961,"end":15301.368,"text":"比如說他的航班等等的重大的事件之下我們也會有一些免除的條款可是這些系的辦法在這一次的修法的大架構底下呢還會有執法的一些辦法我們會繼續的延伸那個細節我這樣問好了你們對於就是說目前的通報狀況你們滿意嗎"},{"start":15305.34,"end":15328.039,"text":"報告委員我們目前對於藥品出現異常的時候需要做進一步分析的我們只要接到之後我們從實在署內以及我們跟協辦的臨床的藥學會裡面對於特定藥品就可以積極的去研析完做後續是否有替代的或者是真的有需要進口專案進口我再換個問法好了就是說"},{"start":15331.762,"end":15354.272,"text":"在像這些盤商其實我的理解有一些沒有參與的盤商他們可能不是不願意參與是因為他們有疑慮他們對於這個政策上沒有說明的很清楚所以就有些就沒有來參與我們樂見於就是說全台的這些盤商都一起來參與這個"},{"start":15356.913,"end":15378.984,"text":"對 我們非常非常希望他們共同參與其實資料越完整對於我們對任性的部分建立我覺得是更好的那我們對於互相的權利義務的部分我們不會是完全是在單方面的其實委員 之前委員也有特別提到我們希望是雙方去協調能夠達到資訊我們希望的是資訊上面能夠對接之後達到最好的涵蓋效果"},{"start":15379.529,"end":15398.314,"text":"對 所以我在這裡也是提醒就是說因為我們這個政策的發布截至今天為止我們其實理想上可以達到百分百的通報但是還沒有我想這一段的差距你們要找出原因 找出誘因去解決它"},{"start":15399.644,"end":15426.292,"text":"那另外就是說根據這個食藥署的發布聲明我們這次是由這個中華民國藥師公會全國聯合會他們一肩扛起來主責尋求這個合作的這個中盤藥商來參與通報那事實上呢大型的這個藥商可能具有研發生產製造那他們的成員呢並不是以這個執行藥師業務為主體的藥商那反而他們的藥品可能都是直接"},{"start":15427.793,"end":15446.928,"text":"與這個大型醫療院所的這個採購那這些大型的藥商直接相關的可能是健保合附的這個藥價那今天呢很可惜我們石部長沒有來因為部長他擔任過食藥健保署的署長他一定非常清楚那真正的27條之2的必要藥品"},{"start":15448.148,"end":15466.164,"text":"事實上實際上它才是最應該被監測的藥品單靠食藥署的職權我相信你們是很難做到即時有效的監測需要健保署在核定藥價的同時考慮提供一點差別性的誘因"},{"start":15467.745,"end":15482.925,"text":"那讓這些大型藥商有積極參與的這個態度那願意配合食藥署的監測系統那畢竟就是說我剛剛前面有提啦這個監測這個系統它的比如說監測"},{"start":15485.728,"end":15500.074,"text":"對 講到這些大型的藥商因為我們剛剛一直在講監測藥品監測藥品但是沒有原料就沒有藥品那我們是不是如果在與其我們在監測這個藥品的同時我們是不是應該對於這個大型藥廠我們應該監測的是原料"},{"start":15505.22,"end":15531.205,"text":"有的原料不是在國內那我們當然自己國內的原料藥這邊我們跟國內原料藥但你要製造的時候你有需求要製造的時候委員其實這就是幾個部分跟委員報告第一個是國內的原料藥廠商我們這邊其實已經對接上來我們也積極在協助我們自己國內的藥廠可以使用自己國內原料藥這是第一個部分那第二個部分有些藥廠其實現在全世界各國他們大概60%的原料藥都來自於印度或中國"},{"start":15532.345,"end":15553.927,"text":"所以這也是我們要強化國內韌性的其中每個國家都有這個問題那他們如果是來自其他國家或甚至來自某些單一國家的話那這也是為什麼我們這次請這些藥廠他們在供藥可能會出現半年內供藥可能會出現波動的這種情況要事先讓我們知道他假設因為他的原料供應有問題導致他的藥品不能生產這要提早讓我們知道讓我們來做相關的因應"},{"start":15554.981,"end":15571.146,"text":"跟委員進一步說一點補充那我們對於要求原料要他們的儲備其實我們有要求到半年的一個儲備期就是的量所以這部分事實上能夠在製造的過程中原料能夠盡量能夠不予匱缺"},{"start":15572.046,"end":15591.427,"text":"因為我想在整個我們在這裡盤點然後再通報再監測那當然這個衍生會衍生一些成本因為畢竟很多的大型醫療院所甚至他們如果這個藥的效期不到一年或一年半他們是拒收的"},{"start":15592.088,"end":15620.667,"text":"那所以我想在藥房的部分其實也是一樣所以這個通報或者我們接下來進一步有要求一個相當時間的一個庫存的時候我想都會衍生當然會衍生一些譬如說這個倉儲的成本或冷鏈的成本甚至一些人事盤點的成本那我想這個部分還有還有一種成本就是說就是這個銷毀的成本"},{"start":15622.368,"end":15637.313,"text":"那如果有這個庫存料那但我們後來沒有沒有如期去用到的時候他也必須要銷毀所以這樣的成本都必須要被考量進去那這些成本呢還有我們的"},{"start":15637.873,"end":15657.127,"text":"政府的配套其實都在影響到我們的就是國內的這些盤商參與通報系統的很多這些原因那所以這個部分本席特別今天在這裡也提出來希望你們可以一併的去做檢討考慮然後讓這個整個"},{"start":15661.261,"end":15676.97,"text":"讓大家的這個參與度可以再更積極一點那我想這個藥品監測他一定是不會層級的這個議題不是三級機關的問題所以這個部分我不曉得兩位有沒有同意我的看法同意"},{"start":15677.56,"end":15697.853,"text":"好 那再回到我們今天討論的藥事法的修訂因為很多的提案它都涉及了必要藥品的供應跟掌握通報還有因應機制事實上就是但我們到底有沒有真的盤點到這些大型醫院的必要藥品"},{"start":15698.913,"end":15726.083,"text":"這個部分我們可能也要好好去想一想事實上很難有一套好的通報系統是由立法院可以規範完全的因為通報系統的含掛率跟時效是檢驗系統最重要的兩大指標法律上只能管制但是法律不是誘因的工具"},{"start":15727.023,"end":15746.879,"text":"所以要滿足這兩大指標還是要靠衛福部規劃出誘因來讓這個涉及藥品涉及這必要必要藥品的大型廠商來主動通報那剛剛也提過這個通報所增加的成本所以衛福部你們應該有這個"},{"start":15749.327,"end":15777.919,"text":"要有單位負責每日監控通報訊息然後提早做出反應那這樣子呢我們的必要的這個藥品存量才能正確有效的被監測那我們民眾的這個用藥的健康需求才能真的被保障那我想我們如何進一步來規劃提升這個系統的通報誘因我不曉得本席剛剛提了幾個具體的建議你們是不是能夠接受然後回去"},{"start":15779.339,"end":15794.764,"text":"我們回去了解一下相關各剛剛提到的這些廠商他們還有什麼樣的需求我們來協助那其實我想我們也逐漸來走向就是自動化數位化的方式來做管理降低大家的相關的管理成本好 因為我相信次長在辦公室"},{"start":15796.525,"end":15817.459,"text":"大家會得到很多單位的訊息回報但是有時候或許實際上在執行面是有一些狀況或者需要改進的空間那也未必坐在辦公室就可以了解到我們都很積極參加學協會的相關活動大家都可以直接溝通得到好 那我等下也在這邊就我了解到的跟你們分享了好 謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":15824.332,"end":15848.849,"text":"好 謝謝那 本次會議 詢問全部結束委員楊耀 盧憲一 所提書面諮詢列入紀錄刊登公報現在作為下決議第一 說明及詢問完畢第二 委員諮詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員另有要求期限者 其從期所定"},{"start":15850.441,"end":15872.498,"text":"那我們現在請宣讀討論事項第1案要求司法部門條文修正查案等12案提案條文內容如果有修正的東西請一併先讀那這個與本法案無關之政務官員可以先行離席市長那個副市長你可以走嗎你可以喔"},{"start":15874.409,"end":15900.078,"text":"我不曉得我是在比後面的比那個呂戀池那個檢證你可以嗎我不曉得在會前有跟那個議事人員做一個報告的話大概跟我這邊比較好跟你們無關就好好沒關係好謝謝好各位可以用餐好不好各位可以可以用餐"},{"start":15902.154,"end":15928.573,"text":"來 宣讀人就先不要用餐其他的可以先用餐好 謝謝 請宣讀要事法部分條文修正草案行政院提案委員羅廷威等20人提案委員羅廷威等17人提案委員徐欣穎等20人提案委員劉介國等16人提案委員王振旭等20人提案委員林月琴等18人提案委員郭怡琴等16人提案委員王鴻威等18人提案委員邱振軍等20人提案委員林倩琪等18人提案委員陳金輝等16人提案現行法條文對照表"},{"start":15930.222,"end":15944.379,"text":"行政院提案第二十七條之二原限刑法第一項拆分為二項並刪除原限刑法第二項第一項第三行其修改為許可證者應就該許可證藥品製造輸入及供應情形定期向中央衛生主管機關申報"},{"start":15945.66,"end":15961.697,"text":"第二項第一行增列前項藥商第三項增列逗號第五行修改為因自事時發生之次日起三十日內原第三項第一行起修改為第一項申報之方式內容範圍期間與前項通報之方式內容及其他相關事項予以現行法同"},{"start":15962.538,"end":15990.769,"text":"委員劉建國等16人提案委員郭益勤等16人提案委員王宏威等18人提案委員陳金輝等16人提案委員王振旭等20人提案委員邱振軍等20人提案委員林倩琦等18人提案第27條之二均與行政院提案同委員羅廷偉等17人提案第27條之二第一項第三行起修改為許可證者因每月就該許可證藥品之製造輸入供應情形及現有庫存量向中央衛生主管機關定期申報第三項第一行起修改為第一項申報之範圍與"},{"start":15992.23,"end":16008.75,"text":"期间及通报之方式与内容予以现行法同为0月请等18人提案第27条绝二第一项第四行莫具修删除定期二字第二项第五行首字改为因第三项修改为第一项申报与第二项通报之方式与内容"},{"start":16009.631,"end":16031.696,"text":"及第一項申報之範圍與其間與行政院提案同行政院提案第二七條之三專為衛生主管機關與知悉具有藥品需可證之藥品有供應不足之餘時得將該情形登錄於公開網站並得專核准該藥品或其替代藥品之製造或輸入不受第三十九條規定之限制"},{"start":16032.676,"end":16056.429,"text":"裝衛生主管機關為預防因應緊急或重大影響公共衛生事件得救前項具有藥品許可證之藥品或專案核准製造輸入之藥品限制其供應之範圍期間數量對象方式或其或為其他限制措施第一項登錄作業專案核准之申請條件審查程序審查基準及其他應遵行事項之辦法由裝衛生主管機關定之"},{"start":16057.253,"end":16082.594,"text":"委員故意請等16人提案 委員王宏威等18人提案 委員陳清惠等16人提案 委員王振旭等20人提案 委員邱振軍等20人提案委員林倩琦等18人提案第二七條之三 均與行政院提案同委員劉建國等16人提案第二七條之三 第三項第二行修改為審查基準與程序 予以行政院提案同委員林月琴等18人提案第二七條之三 第二項第三行修改為得就前項 原具有第六項修改為"},{"start":16083.474,"end":16112.129,"text":"對象與方式或為其他規制措施與行政院提案同行政院提案第48條之二第一項第三行修改為藥品之製造第四行修改為第39條規定之限制第一款第三行修改為藥品第二款修改為因應緊急或重大影響公共衛生情勢之需要第二項第二行修改為分號必要時得令申請者就為使用之藥品限期處理或回收第一款第一行修改為"},{"start":16113.129,"end":16137.985,"text":"已有取得许可证之药品或有第二款修改为紧急或重大影响第三款修改为药品经中央卫生主管机关评估确有影响用药第二项第二行修改为审查基准欲现行法同为刘建国等16人提案为郭玉琴的16人提案为王洪威等18人提案为王振旭的20人提案为邱振军的20人提案为林倩琪等18人提案第48条之二均与行政院提案同"},{"start":16138.846,"end":16155.645,"text":"委員聽委等實踐提案第48條之二第一項第三行修改為藥品製造第四行修改為第39條之限制第二款修改為因應緊急或重大增列第三款國家遇有戰爭天然災害或人民之生命身體健康遭遇"},{"start":16156.833,"end":16179.921,"text":"緊急危難有無法繼續製造輸入或不足供應之情形第二項第三行修改為藥品第二款修改為緊急或重大同時增列第四款國內無法繼續製造輸入或不足供應情勢已終結第二項修改為第一項登錄之作業及專案核准之申請條件審查程序核准基準及限制或規範其藥品之供應範圍"},{"start":16181.321,"end":16199.359,"text":"期间数量对象及方式等欲现行法同文成金会等16人提案第48条之二增列第一项第三款国家欲有战争天然灾害或人民之身体健康遭遇紧急危难有无法继续制造输入或不足供应之情形增列第二项第四款"},{"start":16201.298,"end":16219.955,"text":"4.國內無法繼續製造輸入或不足供應情形以終結,欲行政院提案同為寧願請等18人提案第48條之二第一項第四行末二字改為規範第二項第二行刪除分號必要時第一款第一行刪除或有合適之有字欲行政院提案同"},{"start":16220.715,"end":16233.177,"text":"委員羅廷偉等二十人提案第五十五條第一項第二行據莫修改為其出售行為之費用已不超出藥品相關製造及供應成本費用為原則欲現行法同"},{"start":16236.124,"end":16250.709,"text":"文許新穎等二十人提案第八十條刪除現行法第六款同時第一第七款予以現行法同文許新穎等二十人提案第九日四條配合第八十條的修正第三行第七款修改為第六款予以現行法同"},{"start":16255.936,"end":16279.97,"text":"行政院提案第96條之一第一項第四行修改為令期限期改善逗號借期第二項修改為藥商為依第27條之二第一項規定申報或申報之內容不實或為依同條第二項規定之期限通報者同時增列第三項藥商違反中央衛生主管機關依第27條之三第二項規定所為之"},{"start":16280.53,"end":16306.34,"text":"限制措施者由中央衛生主管機關處新台幣六萬元以上三十萬元以下罰款罰還並令其限期改善藉其未改善者按次處罰予以現行法同委員郭玉琴等十六人提案委員王宏威等十八人提案委員陳清惠等十六人提案委員王振旭等二十人提案委員邱振軍等二十人提案委員林倩琦等十八人提案第九十六條之一均與行政院提案同"},{"start":16308.358,"end":16323.497,"text":"為羅廷偉等17人提案第96條之一處第二項修改為藥商未依第27條之二第一項規定申報或申報之內容不實或未依規定之期限通報者予以現行法通"},{"start":16324.378,"end":16347.935,"text":"文流建國等16人提案第96條之一第二項第三行刪除同條二字第三項第二行刪除限規定二字第三行增加或規制三字第五行修改為並通知第六行末段修改為得按次處罰至其改善為止欲以行政院提案同"},{"start":16349.176,"end":16364.99,"text":"委宁愿请等18人提案第96条之一第三项第一行修改为要商规避妨碍或拒绝第三行修改为第二项所谓之限制或规范并删除由中央卫生主管机关等自予行政院提案同"},{"start":16368.484,"end":16377.708,"text":"行政院提案第106條修正第二項及第三項為本法中華民國95年5月30日修正公佈之條文至95年7月1日施行本法中華民國86年"},{"start":16386.756,"end":16409.577,"text":"5月7日修正公佈之第53條第107107年1月31日修正公佈之第4章之一第92條之一第100條及第100條之一圈年圈月圈日修正之第27條之二第27條之三及第96條之一其施行日期由行政院定之"},{"start":16410.697,"end":16425.415,"text":"委員郭玉琴等16人提案委員陳金輝等16人提案委員王振旭等20人提案委員邱振軍等20人提案委員林倩琦等18人提案第106條軍與行政院提案同委員羅廷偉等17人提案"},{"start":16429.949,"end":16452.686,"text":"委員劉建國等時任提案第106條增列第4項本法中華民國全年全月全日修正之第27條之二第27條之三及第96條之一施行日期由行政院定之予以現行法同宣讀完畢"},{"start":16459.732,"end":16460.018,"text":"宣讀完畢"},{"start":16551.001,"end":16560.207,"text":"好 我們現在進行藥事法部份條文的修正草案等手段之主條審查那每個條文我們先請行政單位來做說明接著請委員表示意見好 藥事法27條之二"},{"start":16574.617,"end":16588.256,"text":"行政院所提的版本還有委員羅廷偉 劉建國 郭育秦王文威 陳清威還有王振旭 林月琴 邱政軍還有林倩琪來 請行政單位來做說明 謝謝"},{"start":16591.588,"end":16619.867,"text":"主席各位委員那針對我們藥事法第27條之二的修正我們簡單的建議修正的說明第一個我們修正第一項是為了加強監控必要藥品供應情形增訂持有必要藥品需可證之藥商應定其向中央衛生主管機關申報該類藥品之製造輸入及供應情形包含現有的庫存"},{"start":16621.908,"end":16638.959,"text":"過去每個月出貨量及未來製造輸入及供應之規劃二第一項有關因事前及事後通報規定我們一列至第二項並著修文字三"},{"start":16640.2,"end":16667.641,"text":"第二項一列制修正條文第二七條之三第一項規範原語刪除那第三項有關藥品登錄及專案核准之相關事項授權規定一列制修正條文第二七條之三第三項規範令增訂有關第一項申報之方式內容"},{"start":16669.283,"end":16692.084,"text":"範圍期間與第二項通報之方式及內容等相關事項授權中央衛生主管機關以辦法定之那各委員呢有關提案的版本內容呢與行政院提案的版本推動方向呢相同僅部分文字的著修建議依行政院"},{"start":16693.906,"end":16712.65,"text":"委員王振旭等20人委員郭玉琴等16人委員黃文威等18人委員周正軍等20人委員林倩琦等18人委員陳金輝等16人提案通過2 委員羅廷偉等17人"},{"start":16712.93,"end":16740.417,"text":"提案第二項是現行條文考量現行條文僅限必要藥品有供應不足之餘時得專案核准對於其他臨床有需求但非屬必要藥品者無專案核准之法源依據原建議一列並參採行政院版第二十七條之三條文以上"},{"start":16743.109,"end":16763.551,"text":"好 這個署長已經做這樣說明那各位有沒有其他的意見主條啦現在進到二十七條之二好這邊請說我覺得在食物執行上我早上在執行的時候就說要考量藥商的行政負擔"},{"start":16764.813,"end":16785.746,"text":"當然我覺得署長 次長已經講說就是在美劑申報可是我覺得是不是會對中小的藥商可能會不會有壓力所以我覺得在立法說明或者是後續的配套辦法當中還是要明確評估申報的頻率跟藥品的風險等級的關聯性以上"},{"start":16791.943,"end":16814.198,"text":"來 請說明謝謝委員 我們在這個二十七條之二我們這邊提到第三項這邊提到說申報方式內容範圍期間跟通報方式內容我們會另外訂那這邊其實我們的就是會試不同的藥品它的供應風險還有影響的程度那之後我們會再來訂這一個相關就是剛剛提到的申報的方式內容範圍期間還有方式跟它的這個申報的內容"},{"start":16814.958,"end":16836.456,"text":"那其實就是像委員所說的我們對於高風險有供應短缺或供應上面就是它有這個影響比較重大的藥品我們可能這邊頻率上會試情況加強但是如果有些藥品它其實一直都很穩定的話供應的部分是比較沒有這個壓沒有這個就是供應短缺的這個風險的那我們會讓它這個廠商的loading會變得比較小一點謝謝委員好 還有委員有請到意見嗎"},{"start":16842.284,"end":16861.561,"text":"那如果沒有我們第27條之後就建立依照行政院提案來做通過好謝謝繼續審查第27條之3那呃有對好沒關係我先宣導一下有一個修正的我知道"},{"start":16862.673,"end":16880.848,"text":"有行政院所提的二十七條之三 委員劉建國 郭玉琴 王文威 陳清輝 王振旭 李月琴 邱政軍 還有林倩琦那當然還有陳昭志委員所提的修正動議那還沒有印來 所以等一下好不好 等一下"},{"start":16890.094,"end":16911.986,"text":"還是可以請行政機關先做說明嗎主席 各位委員 針對第二七條之三要司法修正部分檢要說明如下二七條之三第一項由現行第二七條之二第二項規定遺列並著修文字以確保"},{"start":16912.606,"end":16927.673,"text":"具有藥品需可證之藥品有供應不宜之時 中央衛生主管機關得以登錄於公開網站並得專案核准該藥品或其替代藥品之製造或輸入"},{"start":16928.493,"end":16947.7,"text":"不受第39條規定之限制當藥品及其他具有許可證之替代藥品總供應量不足以供應當前或預期之需求量所定供應不足之情形並與說明"},{"start":16949.659,"end":16976.844,"text":"二為預期因應緊急或重大影響公共衛生事件降低藥商之顧慮鼓勵其餘藥品有供應不足之餘時基於公益挺身為藥品之專案製造或輸入並為立主管機關兼顧各地區藥品供應之均衡以確保民眾用藥之可靜性"},{"start":16977.964,"end":16999.64,"text":"并保障民众健康权益原增订第二项定名中央卫生主管机关得于就第一项具有许可证之药品或专案核准制造或输入之药品限制其供应之范围其间数量对象"},{"start":17000.24,"end":17018.613,"text":"或方式等限制措施三現行第27條之二第三項有關訂定藥品登錄及專案核准相關事項辦法之授權規定一列至第三項並著為文字修正"},{"start":17021.417,"end":17048.753,"text":"各委員提案版本內容與行政院提案版本推動方向相同 僅部分文字著修 建議一行政院委員王振旭等20人 委員郭育晴等16人 委員王洪威等18人 委員邱振鈞等20人 委員林倩琦等18人 委員陳金輝等16人提案通過 以上說明"},{"start":17050.576,"end":17062.93,"text":"多數委員提的文字都差不多一樣你為什麼唯獨就把我漏掉我的也是我就不太懂你對我們兩個到底什麼意見我覺得江組長第一次念的時候到第二次都是這樣子為什麼"},{"start":17064.428,"end":17090.805,"text":"你第一條 都不採納嗎 行政 報告委員兩個部分 建國委員的提案其實我們特別在裡面是最主要參採跟林衛全林委員的部分都是參採在裡面我們特別有參採在裡面那抱歉我們剛才念的時候在整理的部分有點遺漏的也請見諒哪有遺漏27之後就把我們漏掉了 27至3又把我們漏掉了"},{"start":17092.682,"end":17115.996,"text":"這個抱歉行政這邊整理的沒有很好對你不好的又不是我們兩個奇怪的抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉不好意思我們剛剛這個部分麻煩是不是我們可以補充就是說其實第27至2號第27至3號我們也參酌包含這個劉建國委員跟林月琴委員的版本謝謝針對劉建國委員的等16的提案的部分那我們有完整的參採"},{"start":17117.057,"end":17125.428,"text":"那以及王振旭委員以及林月琴林委員18人的提案特別針對裡面的內容以及規定的部分我們有一些進一步的參採以上說明"},{"start":17127.529,"end":17147.795,"text":"好 那個修正都已經提出來也請行政機關來做回應一下還是要 趙志偉要先說不然你先說 好 謝謝謝謝主席那個27條之三我們就是在修正中間先拿掉預防因為我們覺得這個預防這個範圍開得太寬了署長有聽到"},{"start":17153.538,"end":17177.193,"text":"這個預防範圍開得太寬了因為這個連因應緊急或重大影響公共安全事件大家就可以處理面對處理這個所有遇到的狀況那這個是然後這一條當中我們又修正了就針對要件很擔心因為不能履行契約被處罰的部分所以我們特別在修法說明我們放在修法說明的地方新增第三點"},{"start":17177.993,"end":17204.576,"text":"藥商院遵循中央衛生主管機關一本規定所為之供應限制措施以至於為能夠履行契約就是藥品供應義務者他們對醫院主要是對醫院的部分是基於法律或主管機關依法所為之情證處分應該屬於不可歸屬之藥商之室友那其責任歸屬應由這個民法相關規定認定署長或是次長您有瞭解就是我這個修正動議的一個"},{"start":17205.757,"end":17218.712,"text":"重點嗎是了解這個就把預防我們認為太寬了太寬把預防兩個字先拿掉其實當然預防跟因應也是很類似啦只是說我們這邊寫了預防是說當我們事先已經發現會有這樣的現象發生那他"},{"start":17220.934,"end":17249.247,"text":"沒有到因應緊急可是它預防後續可能會有重大影響公共衛生事件所以還是希望委員可以保留預防這個文字那但是也像剛剛提到的其實要去啟動這一個專案輸入事實上它在整個程序上面我們後面包含了我們這個條件範圍限制措施都會再去做執法規的處理另外一個部分就是說要啟動這個事情還要再跟相關的藥廠去做相關的溝通所以是不是委員可以容許我們把預防兩個字留著"},{"start":17249.847,"end":17274.884,"text":"但是如果不留著你們處理起來會有困難嗎總是有一個空間啦因為有的時候是事先發現可能有這個風險那但是我們這個讓我們預防先做一個先做準備但是這個預防就無止境了可以可以到很遠很大來解釋就跟委員報告說其實因為要準備這個事情的時候他事實上如果我們要去做真的要來啟動專案進口我想委員也清楚啟動專案進口這一邊"},{"start":17275.825,"end":17302.584,"text":"包含了跟现有要证的厂商要去做沟通以及询问另外一个部分就是包含说这个还有合价的部分要经过我们健保署的供你会所以我想委员这边也不用担心说我们因为预防了两个字会后续有把那个权限开的太大因为他还是要有相关的条件才能够处理只是说预防因为我想委员也晓得在临床工作上我们还是会有一些可能他我们担心他发生我们事先先做一个准备这个程序了"},{"start":17302.924,"end":17326.438,"text":"不是的您知道一旦被列為那個就是專案進口的藥品你知道後續的管理很麻煩嗎你知道醫療院所病人同意書簽署管理等等所以不能隨便開啟我們很清楚所以不能隨便開隨便開後面很麻煩所以前面這邊我們把預防寫上去是說至少讓我們假設預先認為有這個可能性我們先做準備啦讓我們有個比較有彈性"},{"start":17328.021,"end":17356.273,"text":"是不是委員可以容許我們把預防寫進去我們再思考一下因為我們覺得專案進口是個特例是個非常特例中的特例但是如果很廣泛的把它放在裡面為了讓行政機關很安心我覺得有時候對廠商或供應者也不是非常公平那對後續的醫師處方跟病人它後面的程序還很多這是額外你也不能免除專案進口有它的專案進口的一個規範連使用處方都要病人同意書"},{"start":17358.314,"end":17374.943,"text":"然後醫師還要填寫很多就醫院還要填寫很多資料欸都不能免除欸就像剛剛所說的而且我們之後我們後面還有藥害救濟法要修啦所以說其實這邊當然我們也尊重委員這邊的決定啦那我們事實上這邊放這個預防是說是不是能有一個比較彈性的部分"},{"start":17375.743,"end":17391.693,"text":"再補充就是說其實這一塊也在跟各位委員說明這邊我們做了這樣的我們可以得救這個有藥品休克症或專案核准製造輸入的藥品來限制供應範圍期間數量對象方式這個事實上也是一定程度保障廠商因為避免說廠商他"},{"start":17392.634,"end":17415.246,"text":"愿意协助我们来做专案进口或制造然后再跟其他的厂商在相关供货这个过程中能够有一个比较好的衔接不要造成说是不是有些厂商协助我们就后来整个市场在恢复运作的过程中没有考虑到他们之前的衔接因为我觉得应该是足够啦预防应该是足够让你去处理这些需要处理的状况那请问我们的那个说明的要指的部分呢"},{"start":17416.465,"end":17433.701,"text":"您可以回應一下嗎因為你要廠商配合你嘛早上諮詢我講他要配合國家政策做這些事情那你要給他你要給他有一個他基本的保障吧因為他是為了配合國家政策但他會造成謝謝委員說明這個我想文字上面我們尊重那預防就拿掉吧 署長"},{"start":17442.717,"end":17466.427,"text":"因為你後續大家整個醫院的處方管理病人都要involve進來市長可能不知道後續的那個我可不可以先講一下因為我覺得第27條之三前面已經有講到說因為你已經知悉具有藥品症的藥品有供應不足之餘了那從預防角度上來看"},{"start":17467.028,"end":17482.736,"text":"的確如果前面已經有一些調查的話那當然你要因應這種狀況所以我覺得預防放進去事實上是沒有太大的問題因為已經前端就已經寫得非常的清楚所以當初我的是比較擔心的事實上是說要補充什麼在何種"},{"start":17484.074,"end":17501.808,"text":"極端的情境下來啟動這權利事實上是避免常態性的干預自由貿易可是前面如果已經講說你已經調查貿易不足了那我們現在還不做嗎那從預防角度上來看的確要做可是沒有這個字的話要等到事情發生才來做嗎我覺得那就來不及了以上"},{"start":17506.565,"end":17514.954,"text":"這個就要看我們在講的預防我們的因應緊急或重大影響公共事件這個因應是不是有包含事先預防的動作這樣子"},{"start":17520.179,"end":17537.221,"text":"報告這邊我們針對已經有些事前的調查其實他就是一種因應的態度所以如果沒有預防這兩個字對於我們在實務上面操作應該是還是可以一致的一個進行了所以我們可以接受這個預防這兩字可以刪除"},{"start":17541.892,"end":17569.98,"text":"其實就是這個看法規解釋上面如果我們的預防這個動作算不算也是因應之一啦那其實為了避免掛一漏案我們才會把預防這個文字寫在上面但是就像剛剛其實委員所說的我們因為前面要有知悉我們具有關這個藥品許可證的藥品有供應不足之餘而且這個情形我們要把它寫在公開網站才能夠後續去啟動這個動作所以它其實這個程序不是一個"},{"start":17570.74,"end":17593.952,"text":"就是說隨我們行政主管機關去處理的動作市長因為我們四天前才在市要署開了這個一個協調會嘛公協會都到齊了他們幾乎好幾個代表都有提出這個疑慮後來我不知道署長你是後來才到嘛我不知道你聽到了這個訴求沒有因為他們還是會很擔心嘛如果不影響你們在行政上的一個責任那就不一定要放進去"},{"start":17594.732,"end":17616.315,"text":"我想我們剛才做進一步的是可以可以接受把預防兩個字刪除那天您就是到食藥署去啊大家去那邊協調是另外就是針對剛才立法說明的第三項的部分那謝謝委員的指導我們可以接受上面的所述有關於藥傷因遵循中央衛生機關等等的相關事項以上"},{"start":17619.011,"end":17637.849,"text":"好 陳教授委員的修正定位第三項是不是多一個核准之匯足是 謝謝委員這邊幫我們補充就是我們原來的文字裡面沒有寫到核准之廢止那核准之廢止這邊大概有一個後面能夠廢止掉的這個動作"},{"start":17639.65,"end":17663.137,"text":"謝謝委員的提案因為針對我們已經所謂專案核准進來的但是中間假如有重大需要去修正提早要所謂的廢止他因為有真的有時候進來之後才發現的一些異常那我們是可以接受這樣子的一個修正動議以上好所以就照陳教授委員所提的這個修正動議"},{"start":17666.764,"end":17687.885,"text":"行政院提案及委員陳昭之所提的修正動議修正通過你那個核准之會是前面要多一個頓號啦好那我們就依照行政院提案及委員陳昭之王議員劉建國所提的修正動議通過可以啦好謝謝謝謝委員修正通過修正通過"},{"start":17689.912,"end":17706.358,"text":"好 繼續審查 行政院所提48條之二那48條之二也有委員 羅廷偉 劉建國 郭益晴黃文輝 陳清輝 王振旭 林月琴邱政軍 林倩琦 齁 所提的這個條文的修正 請行政機關來做回應"},{"start":17707.346,"end":17722.447,"text":"好有關於建議修正條文的說明有第一個部分針對本條裡面的藥物的部分我們先修正為藥品因為物是物品以前在所謂的醫材法的關係已經另外拉出來所以修正為藥品"},{"start":17724.049,"end":17744.629,"text":"第二部分我們有考量了事務上的關注公共衛生的情勢不僅著重於事件之急迫性結果事件本質的屬重大者更有其實害結果的發生前要防患未然所以我們舉個例子像一些阿米巴力疾或引球菌的感染"},{"start":17745.169,"end":17765.932,"text":"或者是我們的國人要負防熱病的高風險地區這些事情可能還沒有發生但是如果發生就會重大因此原修正第一項第二款面增訂因應重大影響公共衛生情勢之需要由中央衛生主管機關亦得專案核准特定的藥品製造跟輸入"},{"start":17766.633,"end":17782.286,"text":"那另外就是第二項的配合第一項跟第二款第一項第二款的修正呢修正為第二款的規定那區域的部分呢我們藥品的查驗的登記的審查準則方面的也會做進一步的修正以上說明"},{"start":17785.272,"end":17799.827,"text":"來 請王子旭委員主席我先請主席再確認一下有關於剛剛二十七條之三的修正動議是 已經有依照這個陳昭志委員所提的修正動議做處理而且通過"},{"start":17800.547,"end":17821.586,"text":"不過他也在這個立法說明裡面也有增加第三條第三條好像剛剛沒有宣布是不是也要把他納為立法說明增加條例在裡面這個請主席確認一下立法說明的第三項藥生因遵循中央"},{"start":17824.433,"end":17842.794,"text":"中央組織官依本條規定所為之供應限制措施自未能依契約履行藥品供應義務者系基於法律或主管機關應依法所為之行政處分屬不可歸則於藥商之事由其責任歸屬應依民法相關規定論之"},{"start":17845.489,"end":17869.133,"text":"其實原來我們的這個法原這次去修了之後事實上就是剛剛跟委員所說之後廠商因應我們在緊急或重大事件的時候讓我們用專案進口來做藥品的調度這個情況之下廠商他們本來就因為我們已經開始進到專案進口的調度了所以廠商這邊他在原來的這個跟原來的機構之間的藥品供應的"},{"start":17870.273,"end":17890.266,"text":"合約事實上就由我們這邊來先做了處理所以現行的法是應該說我們這個修法之後事實上就已經賦予這樣的法源那當然委員這邊為了要保障藥商能夠更有信心不要說覺得這個情況之下還有兩難那委員這邊在文字在說明欄裡面增加這樣的文字我想我們予以尊重"},{"start":17892.995,"end":17908.559,"text":"那48條之後委員有沒有其他意見來請王振旭委員謝謝再度發言有關於這一條因為現在是重大影響"},{"start":17909.707,"end":17932.259,"text":"那有委員說要重大不需要影響所以這個差別不知道主管機關這邊針對於重大影響跟重大之間如果說可以能夠講得更清楚的話我相信對於行政院板這邊的支持應該大家會更同意以上"},{"start":17934.525,"end":17951.936,"text":"謝謝委員這邊提到因為我們在我們的說明裡面也稍微我們剛有補充到就是說有一些部分他可能本身那個事件並不是重大的事件但是他後續可能會產生重大影響就像我們剛舉例說可能包含國人他前往一些黃熱病高風險區或者是他預防接種需要等等"},{"start":17952.336,"end":17976.907,"text":"所以我們這邊用的是我們本來委員這邊提到說是不是用重大可是我們做重大影響比較像是就是說這個major impact它後續會有一個impact比較嚴重那它本身不是一個major issue但是它可能導致後續的impact比較大那是不是這邊能夠讓我們用重大影響這個文字也就是它可能在國內並不是重大公共衛生情勢但是因應"},{"start":17978.368,"end":18003.196,"text":"他可能如果沒有處理沒有協助來完成或協助這樣子的一個藥品的處理的話後續可能會有重大的公共事件的影響所以我們在影響上面把它加上去 以上說明好 因為王委員你也是重大影響所以好 這邊就不是 他寫這樣好"},{"start":18009.362,"end":18021.691,"text":"那我們就照行政院提案來通過啦好 謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝各位委員所提供的文字跟意見 謝謝好 繼續來審查羅庭委員所提的第55條請行政院機關表示意見"},{"start":18027.861,"end":18045.789,"text":"55條文字跟委員說明就是說55條這邊的文字我們是應該是已經放在第27條之二跟27條之二的27條之三的文字裡面所以這個部分是否能夠建議維持現行條文暫不予修正"},{"start":18048.427,"end":18069.313,"text":"好那首先還是謝謝啦因為剛剛有正面回應但是有幾個細項還是要就叫這個次長因為剛剛沒有回應到我的部分所以我再要再了解一下就是食藥署回函修法請衛福部回函給我更正前函的一個論述這部分可以嗎"},{"start":18070.819,"end":18081.924,"text":"報委員因為其實說實在現在數位時代之前發過去的文我們大概就是這樣那但是我們可以再發一個文給委員做說明好不好好謝謝那另外那個類推適用的一個說明也希望更正"},{"start":18082.823,"end":18110.024,"text":"類推試用也是一樣就是說當時我想委員其實我們當時發當時那個狀況之下我們用類推試用那我們也是認為說需要再去補正相關的法源所以這次我們提出修法那我們還是是不是沒關係剛剛您這樣的說法就是請他用公文的部分回覆好我們再給一個函給委員那最後就是今天的書面報告因為已經公開在這個立法院的網站上了所以我希望今天的書面報告第五頁第二項重寫送到立法院謝謝"},{"start":18119.029,"end":18140.379,"text":"蛤 怎樣市長他查一下 可以嗎程序上我們想請市主席我們其實因為已經公報這個還有重寫今天的公報的這種程序嗎書面報告有錯誤所以我覺得應該要再更正那什麼報告都可以用來考目的第五頁的第二項 謝謝這個報告"},{"start":18148.097,"end":18148.521,"text":"我们下周"},{"start":18151.328,"end":18180.255,"text":"我相信市長這邊是做得到的因為我的合理應該我的要求應該也很合理並不是就是說硬要沒有委員跟委員報告說第五頁第二項其實是跟委員做這次的條文的說明那剛剛委員所提到的在2024年當時我們在專案進口相關的文字或專案進口相關的函式的部分剛剛委員所要求的那兩份我們會另外再行文給委員這樣說明可不可以"},{"start":18180.595,"end":18199.765,"text":"就是因為你有前面那兩個說明了所以我覺得你今天的書面報告可能寫得不夠完善所以應該要把這個時空背景要補上報告委員我們第5頁這個是針對委員的條文做說明通常沒有再去補這個部分的就是通常是提供給委員參考這樣子這個好"},{"start":18211.338,"end":18215.983,"text":"這個報告是針對委員所提的修正條文做一些回應"},{"start":18216.847,"end":18243.902,"text":"因為他這樣子的說法他寫在書面報告裡面會顯得第55條修正的時候感覺好像我們無理取鬧我覺得這個部分對我來說我沒辦法接受沒有報告委員我們其實是委員我們這邊說到的就是說其實為了要補足現行條文不足所以其實就是委員所跟委員所提案的內容跟精神是一樣的啦不好意思我們並沒有認為委員有怎麼樣不合理的要求啦"},{"start":18247.273,"end":18266.053,"text":"是不是這樣好不好委員我們在第5頁的第2項這一邊我們的文字我們把它修正為考量藥物樣品括號如個人自用藥物樣品專案進口括號仍應以不得出售為原則本次修法涵蓋委員提案意旨以修正"},{"start":18266.934,"end":18286.057,"text":"要事法第27條之二及第27條之三條文明定非屬必要藥品而有供應不足之餘時得專案核准之法源依據補足現行條文不足之處據點可以嗎我們把委員的這個就是說我們把涵蓋跟參考委員的意思我們往前拉就是事實上是謝謝委員的指導"},{"start":18287.625,"end":18310.464,"text":"好 那也希望以上這些可以列入會議記錄我剛剛的文字 列入公報啦所以對啊對啊 社長有回應你的錄音也有會議記錄啊他都會逐字啦 我剛剛已經把逐字念完了社長謝謝 謝謝 不好意思 正面回應謝謝您喔 謝謝好 所以55條我們就建議維持現行條文謝謝 謝謝主席那接下來我們處理徐信偉所提的第80條"},{"start":18312.492,"end":18332.743,"text":"有關於徐委員第80條部分特別提到要刪除第6款要求藥品資訊變更需回收驗章之規定有助維持藥品之持續供應減少藥品供應中斷之風險我們競表支持也建議依委員徐欣穎等20人的提案能夠通過"},{"start":18333.82,"end":18362.564,"text":"好 各位有沒有其他意見沒有 我們就依照徐經緯所提的提案通過那繼續處理徐經緯所提的第九十四條那有關第九十四條部分我們依照同樣上一條的理由我們予以支持 配合前一條的修改所以還是就是依委員徐經緯所提"},{"start":18366.187,"end":18389.24,"text":"徐信宇等候所請提案通過好第7款變第6款謝謝委員那繼續審查行政院所提96條之一那委員羅廷偉 劉建國 郭昱晴王榮威 陳清威王正旭 林月琴 邱振鈞 林倩琪還有陳昭志委員所提的修正動議立案"},{"start":18390.768,"end":18407.995,"text":"那而行政單位針對建議配合修正條文第二七條之二第一項規定與第二項增訂必要藥品許可證之持有藥商未依該條第一項之規定申請申報或申報不實"},{"start":18409.035,"end":18409.876,"text":"來 委員 林月琴"},{"start":18435.72,"end":18459.994,"text":"我想就叫就是你們所謂申報內容不實會公布公司名稱及罰款6到30萬那個申報內容不實的定義是什麼在立法說明有沒有講得比較清楚舉例原本以為三個月後新的原料會進口可是因為臨時空運問題或是原料供應商突然查場"},{"start":18461.355,"end":18483.816,"text":"過原料無法如期進口的話這樣算申報不實嗎這是第一個第二個對於情節重大的定義是不是可以更明確一點如果藥商是因不可抗力譬如說全球的供應鏈斷鏈那導致資訊掌握錯誤是否會有所謂的免罰或減輕的一個空間所在以上"},{"start":18485.58,"end":18512.81,"text":"先跟委員報告就是說其實如果他是不可救責而且他提早他在他能夠知道資訊就能夠立刻來通報我們的話這個部分其實廠商的責任會比較小死的那個呢他有時候是因為原本就是臨時空運問題或者是原料的那供應商突然查場不過的話他就是原料沒有辦法如期的能夠進口的話這樣算不算申報不實"},{"start":18513.83,"end":18527.12,"text":"他如果是能夠有明確的證據是他不可克責於他他前段沒有辦法供應提早讓我們知道其實我們需要其實也跟委員報告說我們這次的修法事實上是我們提早知道之後我們才有辦法啟動因應不要說他不告訴我們然後"},{"start":18528.571,"end":18554.369,"text":"時間到了發現沒有藥品了我們主要重點是在這邊所以事實上我們的罰會以罰的部分事實上是少的前端希望能夠建立這個體制才是重點那其他我請署長補充因為針對行政法法第七條裡面已經有規定了所以違反行政法上義務之行為非出於故意或過失者不予處罰所以針對這部分我們會進一步的去針對這部分予以回應講"},{"start":18557.304,"end":18575.371,"text":"來 請問志旭委員是 剛剛葉前委員他其實想要比較確認的是這個不死是不誠實呢還是不一致不誠實他的對象要處罰的內容是不是一樣不誠實所以理論上應該是不誠實嘛可是我們擔心的是說如果不一致怎麼辦"},{"start":18575.831,"end":18593.644,"text":"不一致他如果是不能克責於他他當時的資訊就是那樣子那他事後有新的資訊讓他再更正給我們說我後來得到的資訊他又變動了比方說像COVID那個時候COVID那個時候很多時候是某一個國家本來可以供貨本來可以運來結果他後來因為他們國家Lockdown"},{"start":18594.184,"end":18623.844,"text":"船没有办法出来那这个我们不能克折于厂商所以像这个就不是他申报不实是他没有办法他真的出不来可是他给我们这个资讯让我们可以及早因应这个法我们这次修正是希望能够达到这样的效果对 所以我说立法说明可不可以稍微还是要待过否则的话真的像一个刚刚讲不诚实跟不一致有时候是这样有落差那他是不是有一个因为他申报的时候你发现这样的状况的时候那有什么样的一个程序可以去减少掉他最后被你们开罚"},{"start":18625.164,"end":18641.769,"text":"因為如果我們在教育現場一般來講都有些調查那你們現在這個狀況我不知道就只是講一個申報內容不實或是或沒有一第二項規定的那個期限去通報者就會你們就會有開罰因為這個罰還也不是太輕6到30萬以上好請趙志偉"},{"start":18650.015,"end":18678.746,"text":"謝謝 因為這個案子我也有提這個求生動議 那早上有跟次長我們在詢答的時候也有做了一些交外見跟討論 能夠影響藥品的供應的因素實在太多了 本來不該不是說只有單一這個廠商能夠負責任的 牽動的甚至是醫療體系 甚至是健保制度很多幾乎沒有改變 那國際的狀況等等那這些因素我們是就是寫在目前在96條之一的立法說明的第二"},{"start":18679.447,"end":18685.62,"text":"第二點的後段為避免因供應限制措施之認定或適用產生爭議"},{"start":18687.854,"end":18705.221,"text":"次長跟署長有掌握我念的這一段並兼顧行政處分之正確性與比例原則中央衛生主管機關於執行前接處罰時應依行政程序法相關規定給予要賞陳述的意見之機會並提供適當之救濟途徑"},{"start":18711.314,"end":18731.776,"text":"我們那天 我們四天前在座的協調會大概也提到各種各式各樣的狀況 那早上這個我想也讓這個次長能夠瞭解有各種他無法自己來負責任的 不可直接歸屬的歸屬的他的責任 那是不是我這樣的立法說明就是屬這邊 衛福部是不是可以接受"},{"start":18732.496,"end":18751.715,"text":"謝謝委員提供文字很清楚那我想是不是也跟剛剛岳勤委員和王振旭委員所擔心的是那個狀況是蠻類似就這樣會有一個比較明確化的一個說明那我們尊重委員這樣子的修正文字就是有適當的一個救濟途徑給予他們就是說明陳述的機會"},{"start":18753.895,"end":18776.353,"text":"署長你OK嗎我沒有看到我看到次長點頭了我們這樣的程序不會delay他的處理嗎對不對不會說因為他就一直在跑這個相關的後續的這個委員這邊所提到的不會因為他一直在處理這個相關的行政程序delay我們後續的處置嗎這兩項如果我們是分開處理對我們可以接受謝謝委員的提案"},{"start":18776.733,"end":18784.402,"text":"好 那就是修正動議 主席大概正在忙 應該知道就按照這個修正寫在那個立法說明裡面"},{"start":18785.942,"end":18808.654,"text":"OK嗎因為行政程序法其實本來就都有在我們要做行政裁罰的時候相關的相關的行為人他可以有陳述意見的機會跟後續的救濟土地本來在法律上如果講對於藥商而言那個健保署衛福部跟食藥署是大到不行他們大概如果我們沒有一個具體的白紙黑字在這裡面"},{"start":18810.515,"end":18838.144,"text":"確實是如此所以一定就是說希望我還沒有放在那個就母法就是說在立法說明裡面盡量把他們這也是我們那天在開協調會他們也很擔憂的事情我就寫在立法說明裡面好我想雖然行政程序法本來就有相關規定不過委員在說明欄裡面明定可能也可以讓我們的包含剛剛其他委員的疑慮還有藥商這邊的擔憂可以獲得一些比較明確的文字上的指引"},{"start":18838.524,"end":18861.57,"text":"那我們尊重委員這邊的文字修改 謝謝他是沒有文字修改所以還是要依照行政院提案通過有說明欄補充對 說明欄就依照陳昭志委所提的說明的意思納入在你們的提案說明裡面好 OK好 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝委員好 謝謝好 那我們就這樣通過 接下來處理"},{"start":18863.249,"end":18877.53,"text":"對 行政院所提的106 那委員劉建國 郭玉琴 陳金輝 王振旭 邱振軍 林健喜等所提的修正條文請行政機關表示意見"},{"start":18879.576,"end":18907.217,"text":"針對委員的提案那我們針對第三項規定修正之上開修正條文施行的日期由行政院定之以為緩衝所以第一項未修正第二項前段規定該次修正之第53條施行日期由行政院定之原一列到第三項一併的規範那鑑於法律案之修正公佈日期"},{"start":18908.438,"end":18928.575,"text":"較利於一般民眾查閱將原定三讀日期修正為總統公佈日期 以上說明好 這個應該各位沒有其他意見了那我們就照行政院所提的提案通過好 謝謝主席 謝謝委員好 謝謝好 現在處理要司法部分條文修正草案互代區既有兩案 請一併宣讀"},{"start":18931.854,"end":18954.972,"text":"附帶決議一本次修正條文所稱緊急或重大影響公共衛生事件涉及供應限制措施之啟動其適用範圍判斷基準及啟動程序對藥品供應體系與相關利害關係人影響甚具先機關於後續訂定相關辦法時應參著世界衛生組織國際衛生條例二零零五年及其後續修正所揭示之公共衛生風險分級與評估原則"},{"start":18956.889,"end":18971.699,"text":"包括國際關注公共衛生緊急事件PHEIC等概念就前開事項與具體規範提案委員 陳昭之 王育敏 劉建國 羅廷偉好 我們先請行政單位有意見"},{"start":18973.074,"end":18997.91,"text":"謝謝委員的文字這個文字也謝謝委員跟我們一樣就是我們也認為說其實要參著世界衛生組織的相關這一個風險評估以及公共國際關注公共衛生緊急事件的相關的概念好那我們跟委員的立場一樣那我們也尊重委員的附帶決議文字謝謝次長你在早上就也提到了國際上其實有一些相關定義所以我們也就這個參考來提出修正動議附帶決議附帶決議好謝謝次長"},{"start":19000.899,"end":19009.67,"text":"好那各位有沒有其他意見沒有那我們就照這樣 照案通過好謝謝繼續宣讀第二案抱歉附帶決議二"},{"start":19011.5,"end":19033.635,"text":"鑑於藥品供應任性除藥品製造輸入及流通端外亦與醫療院所實際使用訂購及替代用藥安排密切相關且醫療院所藥品使用量及申報資料涉及健保給付與醫療體系管理事項非單一機關全線所能完整處理原請衛生福利部於後續訂定第27條之三相關辦法及配套措施時"},{"start":19034.395,"end":19060.349,"text":"整合食品藥物管理署中央健康保險署及醫事司之全責建立跨機關及跨利害關係人之溝通與討論平台納入藥品製造或供應者及醫療院所等意見共同研議必要藥品使用資訊之掌握方式與協作機制以完善藥品供應韌性及整體制度設計提案委員 陳昭志 王玉敏 劉建國 羅廷偉宣讀完畢好 請行政單位表示意見"},{"start":19061.34,"end":19088.958,"text":"我想文字上面我們尊重委員的文字好謝謝那各位有沒有其他意見好謝謝主席我再就補充說明一下因為第一個大家都了解了就是說要品缺貨我們都怕要品缺貨但不是那麼單一的因素大家有共同來承擔也感謝大家對這個部分的認知那第二個部分因為我們提到這個有很多的其他因素包括這個醫療院所他使用的狀況申報的情況還有健保的給付等等"},{"start":19089.398,"end":19117.526,"text":"所以我也是說讓這不是食品藥物管理署能夠獨自承擔的所以是也是在這樣的考量下我們才覺得這個溝通平臺溝通和討論平臺應該也納入醫術師跟健保署早上我也提到說希望他們都在場一起討論然後也納入藥品製造或供應者及醫療院所等就所有的這個相關利害相關人都在這邊能夠做一個溝通因為斷藥是單一因素是個系統性的因素那就是說如果"},{"start":19118.246,"end":19146.273,"text":"衛福部能夠接受我們這個負債決議文字上都可以嗎市長可以嗎我們其實在這一段時間從過去大概這兩年以來我們的相關藥品供應的時候都是會跟相關學協會而且不只是食藥署還跟健保署因為健保署手上掌握有最多各個醫院藥品申報的數量所以我們會我們都持續有這樣的制度那負債決議其實就是跟我們現行的這個做法是很"},{"start":19146.693,"end":19175.465,"text":"是一樣的 好 那也謝謝委員的文字 謝謝好 謝謝 那各位委員沒有其他意見 我們就召喚通過好 現在作為下決議 要視法部門條文修正常案等12案審查完略並按凝聚審查報告提報 院會討論那院會討論時有留召集委員見果補充說明請問本案是我須交黨團協商好 我們不須交黨團協商本法案法制用於調整授權議事人員整理相關立法說明授權行政單位提供"},{"start":19177.745,"end":19204.094,"text":"那現在要來進行討論四項第二案要害究計法第三條及第二十八條條文修正查案等十案請提案請宣讀提案條文內容若條若有修正同意請一併宣讀現在進行逐條審查每個條文先請行政單位說明接續再請委員表示意見"},{"start":19205.7,"end":19207.265,"text":"有關藥害救濟法"},{"start":19209.256,"end":19235.067,"text":"請先宣讀條文內容不好意思要害就計法第三條及第二十八條行政院提案委員羅廷偉等十六人提案委員劉建國等十六人提案委員王振旭等十九人提案委員林月琴等十八人提案委員郭宇晴等十六人提案委員王宏威等十八人提案委員邱振軍等十九人提案委員林倩琦等十八人提案委員翁曉仁等十七人提案憲新法條文對照表"},{"start":19236.087,"end":19263.949,"text":"行政院提案第三條除第二款第三行增列或依藥事法第27條之三第一項第48條之二第一項第二款規定取得專案核准第五款修正為五障礙值符合身心障礙者權益保障法相關規定鎖定身心障礙類別程度分級者但不包括因心理因素所導致之情形欲現行法同文奪廳委等16人提案第三條除第二款第三行增列二"},{"start":19266.832,"end":19274.471,"text":"合法藥物指零有主管機關合法藥物許可證或依藥事法第27條之二第48條之二取得專案核准"},{"start":19275.495,"end":19301.983,"text":"等予以現行法同 委員翁曉琳等十七人提案第三條 與委員羅廷偉等十六人提案第三條同 委員劉建國等十六人提案第三條 處第二款第三行修正為要事法第二七條之三地向第四八條之二地向第二款 與委員羅廷偉等十六人提案第三條同 委員林月琴等十八人提案第三條 與委員劉建國等十六人提案第三條同 委員王宏威等十八人提案第三條 處第二款第六行"},{"start":19303.26,"end":19329.611,"text":"增列規定二字外予以為劉建國等十六人提案第三條同為王振旭等十九人提案為顧逸群等十六人提案為邱振軍等十九人提案為林倩琪等十八人提案第三條據行政院提案同行政院提案第二十八條增列第二項本法中華民國圈年圈月圈日修正之第三條第二款有關要事法第二十七條是三地項規定之施行日期由行政院定之予以先行法同"},{"start":19330.371,"end":19356.324,"text":"委員劉建國等16人提案 委員王振旭等19人提案委員郭益勤等16人提案 委員王宏威等18人提案委員邱振軍等19人提案 委員林倩琦等18人提案第二十八條 均與行政院提案同宣讀修正動議第三條第二款第三行修改為獲依要事法第二七條之三第四八條之二第一項第二款"},{"start":19357.612,"end":19368.262,"text":"與以現行法同提案委員陳金輝 蘇清泉 廖偉祥 羅廷偉宣讀完畢好 謝謝那我們就針對"},{"start":19371.83,"end":19387.922,"text":"行政委員所提第三條那委員有羅廷偉 劉建國 王振勳 林月井 郭育琴 洪文威邱振軍 林倩琪 翁曉琳還有陳昭志委員所提的修正 對不起陳勤惠委員所提的修正第一案請行政機關先表示意見"},{"start":19388.362,"end":19402.6,"text":"好 謝謝各位委員那配合這個這個第三條主要是配合藥事法部分條文修正草案的修正條文第27條之三第一項跟第48條之二第一項第二款來增訂特定情形的專案製造或輸入藥品"},{"start":19403.681,"end":19422.329,"text":"考量就是說因為他是為了要保障這些專案進口的藥品也是為了因應普遍的醫療需求以及特殊狀況要來保障所有民眾用藥權益好所以我們修正第二款的合法藥物的定義那讓這些依照我們相關程序在我們的藥事法修正之後他因為"},{"start":19423.189,"end":19437.405,"text":"許可證藥品供應不足或者是有緊急或重大影響公共衛生情勢而專案核准製造或輸入的藥品它也是合法藥品合法藥品合法藥物的定義那也就適應適用我們藥害救濟制度"},{"start":19438.106,"end":19459.474,"text":"那委員這邊所提到在身心障礙這個部分我們主要是以原來行政院版本是以配合身心障礙者保護法的名稱那修正為身心障礙者權益保障法所以我們用的是這樣子的文字那也尊重委員這邊提出來的文字修正的這個考量那第一款第三款第四款跟第六款沒有修正以上報告好各位有沒有其他意見"},{"start":19471.431,"end":19489.879,"text":"好 沒有 那我們就依照行政院提案通過好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 繼續審查行政院所提第28條委員劉建國 王振旭 郭育琴王文威 邱政軍 林倩琦還有現行法第28條請行政機關表示意見"},{"start":19491.856,"end":19516.483,"text":"有關於鑰匙法第28條修正的部分修正草案之修正條文是第106條第三項明該修正草案之修正條文第二七條第三第一項之施行日期由行政院定之另外第三條第二款配合鑰匙法的相關規定"},{"start":19517.623,"end":19545.086,"text":"是同日施行那各位委員的提願版本跟行政院版本是相同 以上說明好 各位委員不得有意見 好 謝謝好 做以下決議要在究竟以往第3條 第28條條文修正草案等實案審查完畢並按鄰近審查報告提報 院會討論 議會討論本案時由劉昭吉委員劉建國補充說明那請問本案是否需交由黨團協商"},{"start":19546.786,"end":19562.562,"text":"好不需要謝謝那本法案法制用於調整授權議事人員整理相關立法說明授權行政單位提供那本的會議到此結束現在散會謝謝大家謝謝周委謝謝各位委員謝謝謝謝各位委員謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167169","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167169","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851426c6ee1d9f92b23c02888e1e08ec371128c6ef5ed786e9be168438cab24f24f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"11:59:21 - 12:17:21","影片長度":"00:18:00","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T11:59:21+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T12:17:21+08:00","duration":1080,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-4-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.637218750000002,"end":10.223468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.93221875,"end":12.214718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.74534375,"end":19.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.20096875,"end":23.402843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.90909375,"end":27.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.891593750000002,"end":29.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.781593750000003,"end":40.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.48596875,"end":31.739093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.362218750000004,"end":44.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.002843750000004,"end":75.61409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.17096875,"end":79.84971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.32221875,"end":92.03346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.15159375,"end":93.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.14284375000001,"end":108.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.75659375000001,"end":112.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.05971875,"end":135.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.23346875000001,"end":158.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.14971875,"end":164.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.69721875000002,"end":170.94096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.26159375,"end":175.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.52659375000002,"end":180.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.03221875,"end":181.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.75784375,"end":183.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.51284375,"end":189.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.03596875000002,"end":185.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.80721875,"end":192.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.41846875000002,"end":196.23659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.23659375000003,"end":196.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.40534375000001,"end":199.30784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.38409375,"end":198.36284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.98284375,"end":222.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.92346875,"end":202.15971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.70284375,"end":210.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.69659375,"end":240.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.82721875000001,"end":223.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.86096875,"end":224.08034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.31534375,"end":232.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.90471875000003,"end":263.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.93721875000003,"end":249.35909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.75534375,"end":253.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.88846875,"end":269.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.86221875,"end":271.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.34721875,"end":271.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.43159375,"end":271.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.78596875,"end":271.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.05596875000003,"end":277.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.65846875,"end":396.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.50909375000003,"end":398.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.73659375000005,"end":490.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.26221875000005,"end":494.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.44721875000005,"end":515.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.36096875000004,"end":507.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.38909375,"end":524.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.6922187499999,"end":521.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.9109687499999,"end":540.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.75409375,"end":530.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.70596875,"end":541.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.14034375,"end":545.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.9709687500001,"end":548.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.68346875,"end":566.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.66596875,"end":553.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.27596875,"end":569.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.1615937500001,"end":570.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.8784687500001,"end":576.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.86909375,"end":582.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.2478437500001,"end":585.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.36971875,"end":596.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.54096875,"end":597.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.62096875,"end":602.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.24471875,"end":603.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.40909375,"end":617.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.2097187500001,"end":611.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.86346875,"end":614.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.89659375,"end":628.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.85409375,"end":622.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.5403437500001,"end":644.7234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.71909375,"end":647.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.9128437500001,"end":650.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.81534375,"end":651.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.1653437500001,"end":653.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.2409687500001,"end":668.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.83784375,"end":669.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.68159375,"end":671.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.71909375,"end":675.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.55409375,"end":677.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.11909375,"end":680.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.91596875,"end":695.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.20909375,"end":731.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":731.54534375,"end":744.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.5347187500001,"end":747.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.4753437500001,"end":754.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.32221875,"end":758.4778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.98409375,"end":760.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":760.7053437500001,"end":770.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.01596875,"end":772.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":772.85534375,"end":774.6609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":775.09971875,"end":783.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":782.55846875,"end":782.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":783.13221875,"end":788.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":789.4097187500001,"end":791.9072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.2109687500001,"end":800.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.94346875,"end":841.7390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":842.44784375,"end":848.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":848.7422187500001,"end":901.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":902.0672187500002,"end":906.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":907.16346875,"end":908.7834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":909.25596875,"end":914.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":914.8415937500001,"end":922.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":923.07659375,"end":923.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":924.19034375,"end":929.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":929.94471875,"end":947.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":939.7153437500001,"end":939.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":939.81659375,"end":939.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":948.25409375,"end":953.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":954.1772187500001,"end":969.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":969.7865937500001,"end":974.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":975.40596875,"end":979.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":979.6584687500001,"end":1069.4334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1069.8722187500002,"end":1076.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1072.7747187500001,"end":1073.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1080.0984687500002,"end":1080.5034687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":12.027,"text":"主言直询谢谢主席有请部长有请郑部长"},{"start":18.772,"end":39.419,"text":"委員好部長好我們從新聞上都陸陸續續看到幾乎所有的縣市都宣布他們的營養午餐要用全面的免費當然我不是那麼喜歡免費這兩個字我比較喜歡說是全面補助而不是用免費"},{"start":40.459,"end":60.026,"text":"但是呢從口號到制度的成功我想不在於宣布補助或免費而是在於完善的配套措施那實際上也有很多的聲音表達說這樣的做法會不會排擠到其他的教育資源而且我們也都知道"},{"start":61.046,"end":74.88,"text":"這麼做是一種高度不可逆的制度一旦啟動宣布幾乎就是不可能回頭所以在這裡我們就有幾個擔心那也希望教育部這個地方能夠去做一個討論"},{"start":76.281,"end":93.247,"text":"就是關於動態的調價機制因為我們比較擔心的是未來如果他一直沒有調價機制那麼是不是孩子的營養午餐的品質會大打折扣"},{"start":94.227,"end":110.176,"text":"我們看到有很多的法律都會寫說每三年隨物價指數來調整很多的法令都會提到這樣子寫所以我們也希望說這樣的一個機制是很重要的那再例如有沒有加價選購這樣的一個彈性"},{"start":113.378,"end":125.447,"text":"事實上很多的家長他也會期待說他們可以自費加價然後在免費的基礎上有更好的一個營養午餐的品質既能減輕家長的負擔又能夠滿足現代學童的營養需求"},{"start":129.81,"end":146.86,"text":"好那我在這邊只是這樣子做這樣的例子所以想要請教部長的就是說如何為未來去做這樣的一個因應關於預算的永續性品質的一致性制度的創新支援因為實際上有一個縣市從99學年度"},{"start":149.241,"end":175.439,"text":"他早就已經開始實施全面的免費營養午餐但是我們也聽到很多關於品質的一個檢討所以我們也會擔心未來會產生這樣的情形不曉得部長您的看法如何我們謝謝委員關心也謝謝委員確實也看到我們在這個營養午餐中華事實上現在在討論我們委員主席也非常關心"},{"start":176.584,"end":197.053,"text":"但是在這個之前已經有十個縣市已經是免費然後最近全國只剩下兩個但是委員剛才所提的到底要不要各地方縣市他一定會考慮他的物價包括這個學生的營養午餐怎麼樣去確保他的品質所以很多家長也會擔心"},{"start":200.322,"end":227.464,"text":"最重要的一個規準那當然有一些地方我知道也有一些部分的學校他會自己家長會裡邊會希望他們家教能夠讓小孩子吃得更好我想我們沒有限制的理由但是怎麼樣在一定的一個比例不然你會造成還是會有一些不同的色心地位裡邊家庭的一個問題因為未來地方政府如果它基於預算它一直沒有所謂的一個動態調價機制"},{"start":229.906,"end":248.8,"text":"那這個也是很多地方擔心的所以也很希望能夠在辦法或者是未來的專法有沒有可能由中央來訂定納入評鑑之類的機制我們當然希望所有的政策的宣示是永續的而不要說因為今年大家很高興明年因為物價上漲"},{"start":250.181,"end":276.02,"text":"這樣一個價格就這就是很多家長擔心的然後或者就可能品質降低我想這不是我們一個地方政策地方自治裡面在宣布政策裡面所考量的我們當然會希望這個品質是能夠被確保的這也是教育部在未來裡面我們會透過就是配套措施好不好我們未來跟地方來合作而且會提醒也會透過一定的監督來把關好 謝謝部長"},{"start":279.022,"end":306.788,"text":"那另外就是1月12號已經有預告一個解聘辦法的一個新的預告公告內容那關於這個部分部長您也很清楚這兩年其實各地的教師會也好很多的教師團體他們其實也不斷的訴求不斷的開記者會那我們在立法院也做過很多次的質詢甚至是也參與很多場次的記者會"},{"start":307.848,"end":326.682,"text":"那現在其實教育部草案的修正內容我先這樣子說其實是採納了很多地方的聲音跟意見那即便是後來還有不同的聲音出來但是我覺得其實在這之前大家反映出來的聲音"},{"start":327.623,"end":342.549,"text":"其實教育部也都有接納聽進去了可是我在這裡要提到的就是關於教師權益跟兒少權的衝突他其實是在冰山的底下還是在那個地方較勁較力包括校內調查結構的衝突等等"},{"start":346.471,"end":369.108,"text":"那也就是說在這個地方如果我們沒有去注意的話未來依舊還是會有很多很多的聲音出來舉個例子來講像現在我們公告出來我們並沒有看到還是依照現行辦法的規定關於這些什麼解聘終局停聘不續聘的時候被害人才有權取得調查報告"},{"start":370.008,"end":390.642,"text":"並且提出救濟陳情所以在這個地方就形成了一個程序的黑洞為什麼因為他在第48條的地方他的原因就在於我們可以看到他在第一項他說本法第16條第一項第一款的事件僅需對行為人提供調查報告"},{"start":391.883,"end":407.035,"text":"但是我們應該是要針對行為人與被害人或檢舉人這個地方就是不夠橫貧那麼我們再去看同樣的立法格式喔我們卻看到在第48條的第3項"},{"start":409.597,"end":433.607,"text":"有去做修法了可是在第43條的地方我們可以看到在第48條被害人提出陳情前得向學校申請提供調查報告然後以主張或維護其法律上利益有必要違憲可是第43條他們原本是一樣的喔修法之後卻只修了行為人"},{"start":434.387,"end":460.764,"text":"卻沒有被害人所以這個部分反而是讓學校主動提供行為人的調查報告卻不用提供給被害人所以這個是不利於兒少犬的部分又或者是說我們看到像是輕微的處分像是依照考核辦法申戒之類的他卻沒有一個申請的一個救濟管道那麼跟他原來的需求是相違背的"},{"start":461.224,"end":489.643,"text":"所以在這個地方就是凸顯了說我們的行為人跟被害人或檢舉人之間的一個權利不對等所以在這個地方就是一 他沒有辦法取得調查報告二 沒有辦法讓他有法定的一個救濟途徑所以這個部分站在橫平的立場就是想要請教部長是不是學校應該要主動提供調查報告無論是懲處結果如何給當事人 行為人 檢舉人"},{"start":491.324,"end":515.233,"text":"部長這個部分您的看法如何謝謝委員這個提醒確實這一個法的修訂本來就是因為行為人是可能他變成除非他被冤枉不然他可能是一個加害人那我們要處理的是行為人他後來可能涉及到他的一個解聘等等的這些的嫌疑所以我們才在他"},{"start":516.948,"end":538.742,"text":"這個進入校教評會之前讓他看到能夠對他的行為有所能夠有一些說明那這裡邊所有的處理的過程一定會到地方政府教育局被查所以也就是說對這個指控的人我們事實上他還是可以有一定的程序透過地方政府裡面去這個"},{"start":540.923,"end":547.55,"text":"這一個監督整個學校的處理的一個運作那當然如果我們也希望說這樣的一個調整"},{"start":549.741,"end":570.69,"text":"我们怎么样在儿少权益的保护也不阴枉老师的一些专业的一个教学的一个权利那我们希望也许这滚动式的到今年的六月我们会收集更多的资料来做一个滚动式的修正所以这个意见儿少权益的部分会纳进去考量对不对我讲我们为整体的一个考量"},{"start":571.01,"end":596.003,"text":"但我還是要回歸到我們還是很關心教師的權益所以就計後他的案件如果不成立部長我也聽過您很支持很認同還給他全心跟他的家籍這個部分要修教師法第25條以及教師待遇條例的第19條我都有提出修法版本了不曉得部裡面如何"},{"start":598.711,"end":618.36,"text":"跟委員報告確實委員也非常關心我也曾經跟委員這個表達自始至終我的立場就是將心比心所以今天我們不是受害人所以我們沒有辦法感同身受也正因為這樣所以他一定要朝那一個方向來修改所以教育部會主動積極來處理這個部分好 謝謝部長"},{"start":621.121,"end":643.841,"text":"好 謝謝部長但是呢 在調查階段還是有一個停聘 靜候調查的一個比例原則啦我們看到解聘辦法第11條第一項這個是很多老師痛苦的地方就是將行為人暫時予以停聘並靜候調查然後要等行政調查完畢後 認定情節重大才有懲戒法庭或主管機關來裁定"},{"start":645.802,"end":671.594,"text":"您看一下我的PPD這是我接到的陳情他說他接到公文他們要讓我復職然後馬上停聘三個月要繼續調查我學校說要搞死我這個都不是重點他說他想死啦他跟我想死我花了好長的一段時間一直鼓勵他當然這樣的例子很多"},{"start":672.794,"end":695.392,"text":"我們經常接到這方面的陳情但是我從不介入因為我們沒有辦法判斷到底誰為真誰為假這個要交給專業的這一些調查的委員會甚至是法官來處理我們也知道我們從不介入但是我們確實看到很多人很痛苦"},{"start":696.314,"end":715.756,"text":"在這個當中他可能沒有辦法去取得很清楚的一個調查委員會的一個認可但是他又覺得他是被冤枉的那個是無中生有的所以我要講的是說我們在教育界都很多年確實很多的老師他是性格的問題他是連續性的"},{"start":718.078,"end":744.165,"text":"可是也有一些人我們很清楚知道他可能是初次或者是只有這個單一事件但是他就要面臨這種解聘 停聘 靜候調查甚至最後沒有犯完所以這個是在我們當中的一個比例的原則我不曉得說有沒有可能增列一個初次單一情節輕微的為師行為的處理機制部長您怎麼看"},{"start":745.783,"end":771.764,"text":"謝謝委員的指導其實我們大概學校的現場裡邊我們其實信憑法委婉信憑法是當然要停止但是如果在校事這個部分我們本來就是希望不要用小案大辦所以我們有一個分流的機制那以現在的一個法條法令的規範就是說校教評會通過了它要停止要"},{"start":773.678,"end":800.652,"text":"這個停止的這個他才會有進入到這個所謂的權益等於說這個等於說他校教評會一定要通過部長我這樣說好了我舉例舉清楚一點假設有一位老師有一個主任他好心去幫體育老師帶課在這一節課當中突然就被告說學生去舉發說老師拿東西威脅我要刺我"},{"start":802.984,"end":823.327,"text":"那這個老師他過去沒有這樣的一個案例但是呢有理也說不清因為這個就是我們講的就是希望國教署要全面整理建立一個教師專業的倫理指引讓不當管教行為有更明確的界限而不要讓定義散落在各個含釋讓老師無所適從"},{"start":824.528,"end":840.93,"text":"那當老師面對這樣子他過去沒有可是他面臨的是什麼呢就是我們很害怕的修法之後的第九條依然是由校長邀集雖然校長沒有表決前但是我們常常講的就是問題的根源為何校內的調查"},{"start":842.432,"end":865.512,"text":"他本來就是我們再怎麼改他只是換零件他可能還是一部爛車但是我們很多的調查權如果還留在學校制度就永遠沒有辦法擺脫所謂的人情權利的一個死結然後行政的崩潰專業的不足求援兼裁判這樣的一個迷思黑箱當中"},{"start":866.192,"end":887.943,"text":"所以我覺得這個部分也是我們必須要在這次預告當中還是要去回歸到像我其實從以前就一直喊第三方機制我其實是希望說有所謂的第三方調查但是我們現在的幼教模式已經是這樣幼教模式是交由縣市主管機關來建立一個審查小組"},{"start":889.383,"end":906.648,"text":"所以我只是要表達的是說其實很多的根源還是會落入在我們的整個結構性當中沒有辦法掉脫人情啊 權利啊 派系啊 地方啊這種調查權是不是有辦法把它移出去部長您的看法"},{"start":907.736,"end":921.983,"text":"謝謝委員的指導我想土法不足以自行是很多的時候我們在把授權法令的專業的角色在教師法已經非常明文的規範老師"},{"start":924.324,"end":953.358,"text":"的所有的潛力義務在校教評會裡面相關的環境都明定的很清楚但是為什麼108年會訂出一個校事會議的一些處理當然它有它的時空背景我也非常不捨我們看到非常多老師他非常認真的堅守他的崗位但是因為班級經營我們只是希望在這一個兒少潛力跟老師的潛力怎麼樣慢慢的大家彼此能夠建立一個互信"},{"start":954.258,"end":974.435,"text":"能夠讓學校有一個更友善更溫馨的一個支持老師的教科學生的學家長也放心那這個東西以現階段來講我們必須要再有一點時間來逐步的改善建立這個重新這個信任的這個校園文化跟氛圍那我想這一個"},{"start":976.197,"end":993.999,"text":"在這個時刻我們在校事會議就可以退場了好就是謝謝部長因為您從教育界出身我相信這一些您都很有感那我們是希望說這一次的預告期雖然我們已經去處理了這種匿名檢舉不受理然後呢"},{"start":994.58,"end":1021.073,"text":"第一阶段回到考核办法然后再进入到我们所谓的一个校师会议又或者是说我们再去考虑对于这种初次的单一的轻微的是不是回归校内程序处理我想这很多我们其实儿少权的保障跟教师权益的保障都是为了我们国家教育的一个健全因为大家都需要快乐"},{"start":1022.053,"end":1050.302,"text":"所以這個部分就是希望部長你能夠針對檢舉人的權益讓他們也能取得調查報告也有一個申訴的救濟管道那教師的權益包括名譽的回覆最基本的就是回覆全新然後對於這些輕微出赤的還有他停聘的一個工作權那甚至有可能未來我們就是把調查權移出學校交給第三方比照幼教的一個模式"},{"start":1050.802,"end":1076.551,"text":"然後建立一個好的教師專業的倫理指引讓老師不要無所適從我想每一個作為其實都是代表我們對這件事情的用心我相信所有的家長也好老師也好也都會看重我們這份重視的態度好不好好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝武力華委員那官員請回座了現在"}]}},{"id":"167151","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167151","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851ee7d710c670b7826e1f8a6d37bdd8b89247638a9beb78aabe845366a77bfd4645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"10:48:25 - 11:14:33","影片長度":"00:26:08","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「藥事法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「藥事法第二十七條之二、第四十八條之二及第九十六條之一條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「藥事法第八十條及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員王正旭等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(八) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十一) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。(十二) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「藥事法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查(一) 行政院函請審議「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(二) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(三) 委員劉建國等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(四) 委員王正旭等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(五) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。(六) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(七) 委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。」(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(九) 委員林倩綺等18人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。(十) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「藥害救濟法第三條條文修正草案」案。【第一（十一）及二（九）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第一（十二）及二（十）案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【綜合詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-19","start_time":"2026-01-19T10:48:25+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-19T11:14:33+08:00","duration":1568,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.24471875,"end":11.809718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.31596875,"end":13.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.63221875,"end":16.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.12534375,"end":17.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.41159375,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.22159375,"end":23.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.90909375,"end":25.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.934093750000002,"end":27.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.06034375,"end":31.688468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.93721875,"end":35.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.26159375,"end":37.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.21909375,"end":42.674093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.24784375,"end":47.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.97284375,"end":60.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.34221875,"end":62.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.126593750000005,"end":63.143468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.143468750000004,"end":63.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.17721875,"end":63.227843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.227843750000005,"end":65.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.97846875,"end":80.44034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.14159375,"end":75.81659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.22096875000001,"end":82.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.65096875,"end":83.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.86159375000001,"end":87.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.61221875000001,"end":133.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.71471875,"end":152.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.32346875000002,"end":167.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.00909375,"end":188.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.18971875,"end":172.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.07346875000002,"end":187.95096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.03534375,"end":188.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.32221875000002,"end":188.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.38971875000001,"end":188.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.50784375,"end":188.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.74409375000002,"end":188.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.96346875,"end":193.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.58721875,"end":206.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.71596875,"end":208.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.07846875,"end":218.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.59159375000002,"end":223.64159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.69221875000002,"end":237.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.01284375,"end":224.04659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.67721875,"end":240.12846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.26346875000002,"end":241.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.49534375000002,"end":258.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.20159375000003,"end":277.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.89471875000004,"end":289.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.97721875,"end":312.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.29659375,"end":298.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.50534375,"end":315.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.77034375,"end":319.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.76159375000003,"end":327.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.21659375,"end":324.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.73971875,"end":328.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.03034375000004,"end":328.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.09784375000004,"end":328.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.13159375000004,"end":331.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.16534375000003,"end":328.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.08034375,"end":356.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.05534375,"end":358.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.81034375,"end":360.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.74659375000005,"end":366.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.92721875,"end":371.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.37784375,"end":375.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.37721875,"end":381.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.43534375,"end":389.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.77596875,"end":391.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.86409375000005,"end":401.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.97659375,"end":423.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.10284375000003,"end":405.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.21659375,"end":405.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.40221875000003,"end":405.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.97596875000005,"end":406.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.56846875,"end":429.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.07346875,"end":430.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":430.09034375000005,"end":442.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.23346875000004,"end":433.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.03034375000004,"end":436.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.47721875,"end":438.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.91159375,"end":439.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.92846875000004,"end":440.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.03784375000004,"end":442.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.53534375000004,"end":444.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.56909375000004,"end":444.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.49721875,"end":445.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.51409375000003,"end":447.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.11284375,"end":476.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.31596875,"end":472.49721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.56409375000004,"end":477.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.84659375,"end":479.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":479.56784375,"end":486.03096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.03096875000006,"end":488.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.38471875000005,"end":494.43471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.67096875000004,"end":502.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.31096875000003,"end":509.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.12846875,"end":515.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.0390937500001,"end":521.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.12221875,"end":523.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.13909375,"end":524.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.7084687500001,"end":529.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.75409375,"end":530.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.3403437500001,"end":535.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.31846875,"end":538.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.56284375,"end":546.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.13534375,"end":548.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.99159375,"end":552.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.10909375,"end":561.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.37784375,"end":565.5459687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.8203437500001,"end":567.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.26721875,"end":573.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.9284687500001,"end":579.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.5815937500001,"end":589.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.8459687500001,"end":605.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.23159375,"end":610.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.6359687500001,"end":616.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.0359687499999,"end":628.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.43471875,"end":630.5147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.6115937500001,"end":639.3572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.57659375,"end":648.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.7397187500001,"end":654.9834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.4053437499999,"end":658.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.81409375,"end":662.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.79659375,"end":673.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.2378437500001,"end":675.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.9253437500001,"end":680.3972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.6672187500001,"end":683.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.1772187500001,"end":687.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.4297187500001,"end":694.1840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.7747187500001,"end":700.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":700.90034375,"end":705.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":707.2959687500002,"end":709.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":709.8103437500001,"end":714.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.1809687500001,"end":716.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.24846875,"end":720.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.2222187500001,"end":728.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.37784375,"end":725.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.45284375,"end":731.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.1697187500001,"end":732.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.38909375,"end":732.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.67596875,"end":733.5534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.5534687500001,"end":733.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.32096875,"end":737.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.43471875,"end":738.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.0209687500001,"end":739.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.98284375,"end":743.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.4040937500001,"end":748.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.53409375,"end":754.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":751.79534375,"end":758.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.78159375,"end":765.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":761.36346875,"end":762.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":766.39221875,"end":768.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":769.91909375,"end":772.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":773.44596875,"end":774.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":775.43721875,"end":778.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":779.0147187500002,"end":779.8584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":779.2509687500001,"end":780.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":780.02721875,"end":784.9209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.9209687500002,"end":788.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":789.2240937500001,"end":791.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":792.3459687500001,"end":803.7703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":804.37784375,"end":815.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":817.15221875,"end":818.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":818.82284375,"end":820.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":820.42596875,"end":822.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":822.1640937500001,"end":825.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":824.07096875,"end":825.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":825.35346875,"end":825.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":825.9778437500001,"end":830.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":828.42471875,"end":830.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":830.8547187500001,"end":835.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":836.2547187500002,"end":838.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":839.10659375,"end":840.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":842.1272187500001,"end":843.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":844.70909375,"end":845.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":845.7553437500001,"end":847.7803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.96596875,"end":849.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":850.32846875,"end":851.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":852.35346875,"end":853.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":855.99846875,"end":857.1459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":858.66471875,"end":862.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":862.6303437500001,"end":862.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":862.7822187500001,"end":862.9509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":862.9509687500001,"end":877.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.32409375,"end":882.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":882.9140937500001,"end":890.9128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":893.07284375,"end":893.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":895.62096875,"end":896.8359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":897.0890937500001,"end":924.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":905.03721875,"end":905.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":906.74159375,"end":911.0615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":911.0615937500002,"end":912.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":912.24284375,"end":912.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":912.8503437500001,"end":912.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":912.90096875,"end":915.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":915.29721875,"end":915.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":924.9328437500001,"end":929.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":931.1428437500001,"end":939.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":940.20471875,"end":940.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":941.92596875,"end":944.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":944.03534375,"end":944.9634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":944.9634687500002,"end":945.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":945.2165937500001,"end":945.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":945.26721875,"end":949.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":947.2078437500002,"end":947.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":949.0303437500002,"end":949.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":949.89096875,"end":955.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":960.18471875,"end":960.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":961.9565937500001,"end":962.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":964.40346875,"end":965.0615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":965.0615937500002,"end":965.4834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":965.6353437500002,"end":1000.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1000.98846875,"end":1002.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1002.77721875,"end":1006.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1007.2322187500001,"end":1011.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1010.55659375,"end":1013.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1013.5603437500001,"end":1015.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1015.04534375,"end":1023.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1018.96034375,"end":1019.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1023.17909375,"end":1035.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1030.0640937500002,"end":1031.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1035.73409375,"end":1043.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1041.65721875,"end":1063.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1064.2022187500002,"end":1070.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1070.74971875,"end":1073.8040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1072.72409375,"end":1077.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1077.92159375,"end":1090.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1091.0503437500001,"end":1102.7615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1093.1765937500002,"end":1094.7290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1101.58034375,"end":1104.7190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1105.37721875,"end":1109.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1110.0347187500001,"end":1111.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1111.53659375,"end":1116.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1116.9703437500002,"end":1123.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1124.17596875,"end":1128.9178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1128.98534375,"end":1130.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1130.67284375,"end":1141.0172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1141.8440937500002,"end":1146.2147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1146.5859687500001,"end":1163.8153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1164.7434687500001,"end":1178.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1179.7959687500002,"end":1182.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1182.2259687500002,"end":1190.1909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1185.8878437500002,"end":1186.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1189.4822187500001,"end":1191.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1192.0134687500001,"end":1193.2959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1192.3172187500002,"end":1201.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1198.9659687500002,"end":1199.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1202.0034687500001,"end":1203.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1206.5259687500002,"end":1207.6565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1208.0447187500001,"end":1210.5928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1211.2003437500002,"end":1218.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1218.9290937500002,"end":1222.7090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1223.6540937500001,"end":1228.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1229.52659375,"end":1232.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1232.32784375,"end":1233.7959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1234.57221875,"end":1248.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1249.5909687500002,"end":1258.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1259.1253437500002,"end":1262.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1263.15846875,"end":1273.8909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1274.09346875,"end":1275.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1276.3209687500002,"end":1280.7928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1280.9447187500002,"end":1284.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1284.7415937500002,"end":1285.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1286.2434687500001,"end":1289.5003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1290.6309687500002,"end":1294.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1295.22096875,"end":1298.1909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1298.42721875,"end":1303.8609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1304.50221875,"end":1310.8640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1312.33221875,"end":1313.4290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1313.88471875,"end":1314.8297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1314.8297187500002,"end":1315.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1315.03221875,"end":1315.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1315.18409375,"end":1315.2178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1315.2178437500002,"end":1317.2090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1317.9515937500003,"end":1319.0484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1320.0103437500002,"end":1322.9803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1320.1790937500002,"end":1323.5203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1323.4190937500002,"end":1323.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1324.02659375,"end":1340.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1340.74971875,"end":1343.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1344.56346875,"end":1346.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1347.5840937500002,"end":1353.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1354.38471875,"end":1357.3040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1357.64159375,"end":1369.2684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1369.43721875,"end":1385.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1385.7047187500002,"end":1386.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1387.3753437500002,"end":1391.0540937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1391.5603437500001,"end":1401.0272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1400.2003437500002,"end":1400.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1401.0272187500002,"end":1401.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1401.1284687500001,"end":1409.4984687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1401.38159375,"end":1402.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1408.7728437500002,"end":1424.5340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1416.1809687500001,"end":1417.1934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1424.6859687500003,"end":1430.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1425.81659375,"end":1426.7615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1430.03534375,"end":1458.2840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1458.45284375,"end":1460.2415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1461.28784375,"end":1466.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1466.7215937500002,"end":1471.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1472.0540937500002,"end":1475.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1476.1378437500002,"end":1479.7828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1480.39034375,"end":1484.7103437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1482.7359687500002,"end":1487.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1485.5203437500002,"end":1485.9759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1487.56221875,"end":1488.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1488.13596875,"end":1495.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1496.99534375,"end":1497.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1497.82221875,"end":1498.4634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1498.41284375,"end":1499.7459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1499.96534375,"end":1501.7540937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1502.8172187500002,"end":1505.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1506.0740937500002,"end":1506.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1507.0190937500001,"end":1507.6603437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1507.96409375,"end":1509.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1509.4659687500002,"end":1510.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1510.64721875,"end":1511.5922187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1511.8453437500002,"end":1515.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1515.27096875,"end":1520.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1519.08471875,"end":1523.2528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1523.59034375,"end":1527.8765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1524.56909375,"end":1526.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1527.8428437500002,"end":1528.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1528.8047187500001,"end":1532.2134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1531.2853437500003,"end":1534.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1534.40721875,"end":1542.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1538.9803437500002,"end":1542.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1542.7434687500001,"end":1548.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1546.5740937500002,"end":1562.6390937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1552.3453437500002,"end":1552.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1552.5984687500002,"end":1554.5897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1557.1209687500002,"end":1557.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1563.2803437500002,"end":1564.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1564.3940937500001,"end":1564.5965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1564.7147187500002,"end":1567.6847187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1565.20409375,"end":1565.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1565.22096875,"end":1565.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1565.7272187500002,"end":1565.8115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1568.17409375,"end":1568.9672187500003}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.278,"end":17.742,"text":"好 謝謝主席我是不是好 先請我們次長有請次長委員長次長早我上個禮拜質詢就是上週五上個"},{"start":32.987,"end":61.77,"text":"就是上上禮拜吧上上禮拜這個中榮發生廠商進手術室帶刀事件那你們調查報告應該已經出來了你可不可以稍微簡單說一下報告委員其實台中榮總這一邊台中榮總他們在1月15給我們的調查結果就是確認醫師有違規讓廠商進入手術室的管制區域那目前中榮是給予行政懲處我現在問你是他有沒有帶刀"},{"start":62.622,"end":80.227,"text":"蛤有沒有帶醫師操刀操作手術我們在目前他對外的那個資訊看起來是有一些疑慮那但是莊榮給你們的報告你們就全部都沒有報告員今天我們包含醫師是已經直接要到台中榮總區一起進行調查你們醫師師師長喔呃"},{"start":84.875,"end":101.042,"text":"可能是有失公允他在上個禮拜五1月16他說中榮已經提出調查報告確認有三名醫師未依規定完成報備程序違規放行草上進入手術室他直接已經定義你們的司長 劉悅平"},{"start":102.603,"end":103.804,"text":"他直接說 OK"},{"start":118.658,"end":132.914,"text":"劉悅平這樣說是根據中榮報告就算了但是人家媒體接著問問你劉悅平說這個懲處是不是過輕因為只有申戒一次"},{"start":133.695,"end":150.866,"text":"然後你們劉悅平答覆中榮對於三名涉案醫師各寄生借一次屬人事處分醫生都是資優生對醫師來說被寄生借甚丟臉的事情尤其是科部主管影響其實不小"},{"start":153.508,"end":164.14,"text":"你那個劉悅平 劉司長沒有客觀公正沒有扮演起目的事業主管機關的職責然後說這樣的處分已經是影響很大了報告委員其實我們現在"},{"start":168.365,"end":186.41,"text":"現在最新的資訊也跟委員這邊做個報告就是說部長這邊已經先要求健保署去調查因為如果這個過程中牽涉到這個醫師這邊的健保申請那如果不是醫師自己親自做這樣的相關執行手術的動作的話那健保這邊會有一些相關的追回跟懲處"},{"start":187.13,"end":207.302,"text":"你知道嗎 次長你這樣子輕輕的講過去 但是我要告訴你啊你們上個禮拜五 中榮報告丟出來你們劉悅平這樣講以後 人家就有影像已經在媒體揭露了你們的影像看起來 大家都覺得說"},{"start":209.11,"end":236.151,"text":"沒有預期會有人敢檢舉所以你們當時就認為說大概沒有具體證據下本來是要持續否認後來人家把影像丟到媒體曝光以後然後相關說法才隨著影像逐步出現而被迫修正就像擠牙膏一般被動而且消極看起來就是這樣子 來"},{"start":238.737,"end":265.82,"text":"知新聞講的這些神經外科主任鄭文玉不但沒有穿著手術服沒有戴滅菌手套雙手還抱在胸前而持刀的竟然就是這個被爆料的陳姓一財商所以我就說嘛大家都知道只有衛福部不知道還有躺在那裡的病人不知道人家檢舉了"},{"start":269.083,"end":285.081,"text":"還繼續隱瞞如果影片沒有出來劉悅平還繼續幫中榮幫醫生袒護所以人家質疑你 劉悅平依依相護啊人家質疑你們並沒有解決問題從制度面"},{"start":287.623,"end":312.116,"text":"去好好這個整頓的決心啊報告委員其實部長也提到了就是說半年內我們會提出相關的這一個共同的一個指引部長因為各個除了指引以外部長還指導你們還要做什麼包含就剛剛提到的這邊第一個是健保這邊去做調查第二個部分就是說如果這邊有違反相關的法律的話那全部都要依照法律來做調查僅此於此嗎現在的法律規定足夠嗎"},{"start":317.793,"end":334.513,"text":"我已經諮詢過他了醫師法第28條密醫行為是有刑責的他們都不在乎欸市長房間裡面的大象大家都看得一清二楚醫界也有人出來說護理界有人出來說"},{"start":335.534,"end":360.37,"text":"醫材界有人出來說 連這個醫院都有人出來說大家都知道 看得一清二楚房間裡面的大象 現在你們告訴我們說訂指引 立委給他們指引過立委跟他們說第一要件是什麼因為現場在座的參與的 每個人都是共同炸七飯共同炸七飯檢舉的人也有刑責"},{"start":362.269,"end":390.463,"text":"檢舉的人 具體的人 具名的人也有刑責所以我已經講了法律就不怕 你頂指引要從下 指引不夠所以要頂這個吹哨者保護的機制要讓吹哨者可以從刑事責任裡面豁免出去所以你去頂相關指引要配套配套就是要有吹哨者保護的機制而你們在這裡"},{"start":393.061,"end":420.323,"text":"聽你們一直在講 定指引 定指引這樣沒有檢舉就沒事了現在是怎樣 人力短缺所以都叫醫材上去帶刀那個不是人力短缺的問題那是長期以來那個其實這樣講就是說有一些比較特殊新的醫材我們也理解他可能在醫師這邊操作上需要一些協助但是我們還是要再一次澄清廠商不可以站到table上去在病人身上執行相關的業務"},{"start":422.024,"end":442.329,"text":"那你告訴我那你告訴我你覺得哪些帶刀的科別集中在哪些科別就是這些科別目前來講啦就是說這些新興的器械我們包含這一次神經外科那我們接下來可能還包含骨科等等這些我們都要進行一些調查眼科有沒有 眼科有沒有委員這邊有相關的資訊的話"},{"start":448.177,"end":475.297,"text":"怎麼會這樣子呢你去看我的youtube人家都來留言啦所以哪些醫材因為器械很新甚至醫材的業務帶刀操作的比你們的醫生還要更賢手手術做的可能也可能更好就算這樣也不行也不亞裔就算這樣也不行你知道嗎他再厲害都不行那我現在要告訴你你們的醫生不用精進嗎新的手術刀法不用精進嗎你新的醫材不用練習嗎"},{"start":476.658,"end":486.352,"text":"那誰要當這個獸數的實驗的人其實相關的某些程序事實上有的是用模具可以事先做一些處理啦那當然不是全部啦你們有規範嗎有規範嗎"},{"start":490.407,"end":508.897,"text":"大排的醫生 新的 小的 細節 他們也不要餓啊就在這裡 叫醫材上來做這種簡單的沒有檢舉就沒事檢舉之後 醫生都說我自己做的現場大家都共同炸七飯 不敢出來那你的吹哨子保護機制在哪裡"},{"start":510.331,"end":529.55,"text":"我記得其實去年吹哨者相關的法規已經過了刑責他沒有包含這個啦免刑責你告訴我吹哨者保護機制去年的法律哪一條可以適用哪一條我其實現在在調查裡面我們是沒有去追究到底是誰來提供這些影片啦"},{"start":531.4,"end":545.88,"text":"你的腦袋轉不過去當事人如果知道他就馬上去提告馬上都是共同詐欺犯而且一年以上的是完全不能交保的不能緩刑的非坐牢不可的"},{"start":547.505,"end":573.435,"text":"這很重的罪耶但是就很多人還在做啊因為沒在怕啊大家都涉案在裡面欸 奇怪人家麻醉科醫師護理師跟他沒有相關 他也沒拿到錢但是已經被迫要參與在裡面共同詐欺我們不會認定他們有這樣的行為啦那不是你不認定 刑法的認定主責機關是你嗎你是檢察官嗎 你是法官嗎"},{"start":574.995,"end":597.549,"text":"共同詐欺 這個就是共同詐欺 構成要件就是這樣子而且以中融為例 2017年他們院內第三次手術室管理會議中就已經明確的決議 開會已經決定絕對禁止廠商刷手跟刀或碰觸病人傷口及身體 而且絕對禁止手術進行"},{"start":598.65,"end":613.904,"text":"由這個業務來帶刀這種規範在中榮2017年就定了內容很明確那為什麼2023年還發生這麼離譜的事這件事情我們請中榮的院長這要趕快去查清楚所以次長"},{"start":615.066,"end":629.758,"text":"這個不是規定的問題嘛不是有沒有規定的問題是制度內執行還有內部管理失靈還有長期中央主管機關放任不查所以這個問題是"},{"start":631.736,"end":647.518,"text":"醫院本身的管理和內控機制都沒有發揮作用啊中央主管機關你未來到底要怎麼監督和介入啊難道只能停留在繼續被動的等醫院回報相信醫師自律嗎你們的劉悅平就是這樣子"},{"start":648.82,"end":673.243,"text":"土法不足以自行 有行者的都沒在怕所以這不是法治面而已 這有執行面困難的地方你們劉悅平講這個話 就是一一相護所以更令人憂心的是 劉悅平還可以講說醫生從小到大都是資優生 被寄生界很丟臉 當前提"},{"start":674.324,"end":693.587,"text":"你就形同玉色了醫生群體不會也不可能發生違法行為那麼你的主管機關都這樣講了那我們只能夠 病人只能夠選擇相信嗎那請問制度面監督病人的權益是誰要來承擔啊"},{"start":694.984,"end":701.317,"text":"這不是法治面的問題執行面你們自己部內已經這種態度了劉悅平這種態度我們可不可以信任你 要改革"},{"start":707.355,"end":733.038,"text":"吹哨者保護機制我們這個案子因為媒體一揭露其實我們就已經請鐘榮的院長你們就個案處理但這不是個案你去看我的youtube下面人家具體台南某個醫院某某某個醫院人家都講了都有人出來吹哨了所以歡迎來跟我們檢舉"},{"start":736.723,"end":757.206,"text":"檢舉的人有刑責伺候我檢舉我自己是共同詐欺犯要怎麼檢舉你有給人家吹哨子保護免刑責的機制嗎你告訴我有沒有你說歡迎大家來檢舉檢舉的人馬上共同詐欺的共犯委員您剛剛說刑責不是我說的"},{"start":758.96,"end":776.935,"text":"對啊 那你有免除人家的刑責嗎你有提出修法案嗎你有在醫師法裡面明文規定可以吹哨者免除刑責嗎你要修法捏 你講到事不關己你這種態度還能笑我覺得這正經事欸 很嚴肅欸"},{"start":779.313,"end":803.188,"text":"你還能夠覺得說不用修法不是委員剛剛是您說我不能刑責不是我講了算啊你說沒有刑責你們不會認定是刑責就不是你認定了你這憑什麼認定你有沒有責任你要修法在醫師法裡面把檢舉人免除刑責放到法律裡面來你現在推薦你的責任"},{"start":804.449,"end":814.322,"text":"你沒有權利 你說我要認定他們沒有刑責 你沒有這個權利當你有責任的時候 你要去修醫師法的時候 你就說我沒有權利"},{"start":817.185,"end":839.849,"text":"不是這樣子的態度啦不是這樣啦你劉月平那個態度可以嗎你說說看你說說看劉月平的態度可以嗎委員我們這個案子我們全力來調查這不是這個案子你老是說個案這個案子他是全台灣全面性的全面性的骨科神經外科眼科脊髓外科"},{"start":844.724,"end":856.723,"text":"全面性的每個醫院很多都被人家講出來他不是一個醫院不是只有中榮你到底要怎麼解決"},{"start":858.72,"end":880.528,"text":"指導原則能做什麼違反指導原則會怎麼樣你要定一個指導原則違反指導原則會怎麼樣那委員剛剛提到他這裡面有些部分他會牽涉到對於我們健保那邊事實上是有違法的那剛剛提到醫師法以及密醫法這邊目前的法律當然都可以先處理當然委員如果提到要修法我們也尊重委員的評估你不認為應該要修法你不認為應該要解決這個問題嗎"},{"start":883.05,"end":890.567,"text":"這要解決這個問題你要怎麼解決定一個指導原則有法律有刑責他都不怕了那你的指導原則要做什麼"},{"start":895.626,"end":923.304,"text":"我覺得很訝異啊次長你這種態度我想這個問題不會解決因為你宣示了一個跟劉月平一模一樣的態度因為我剛剛講掉了醫生絕對不會違法醫生都是自由生這裡都有相關的法律醫生被寄生件很丟臉所以醫生絕對不會違法現在醫生很多都在違法當中而且還把麻醉科醫師把無辜的護理師都牽扯拉進來"},{"start":924.994,"end":940.656,"text":"他們何其無辜 其實很多業代也不願意當密醫而你制度面沒有保護這群人你們更是制度面忽略了病人該享有的保護的他有"},{"start":942.123,"end":953.049,"text":"廠商本來就不可以在病人身上指導現在就在病人身上指導所以我們要相關 後續調查之後要相關的排查不是一件 不是只有這個個案你剛才說消尾嘛好我們請回 跟你說不好我繼續問我們是要數有請江署長"},{"start":964.474,"end":984.74,"text":"署長 上週五發生寶城興業有限公司豐原國際企業有限公司涉嫌從2024年起從國外輸入成本低廉的橄欖油破然後以日本一番頂級橄欖油的名義對外販售給下游廠商依照地檢署"},{"start":985.8,"end":999.523,"text":"還有你們的說法就這樣子你們主動告發然後地檢署說他們違反食安法第15條第1項第7款摻尾和假冒我請問你他們摻了什麼東西假冒了什麼東西"},{"start":1002.962,"end":1021.507,"text":"這個油品呢 他是用所謂感染破油摻了一個東西 摻了叫做同業綠素他們確定有加同業綠素嗎對 在查的過程當中我現在問你 因為你的新聞稿都沒有 你不要在這裡說謊喔新聞稿完全沒有描述他們摻了同業綠素"},{"start":1023.828,"end":1042.699,"text":"這邊委員特別詢問我特別因為還在偵辦當中我們自己驗的實驗室驗的我們是有驗到的同業律師所以跟你們去跟委員做進一步報告在確定之下呢感染破油是有這樣子的油品在CNS4837號的標準使用不要講CNS你的法規不應該要用經濟部的CNS標準"},{"start":1048.903,"end":1061.52,"text":"你的法律應該是你們的食品的品名標示標準要定規範我今天要講的如果他沒有加同業率數如果沒有的話請問他有違法嗎"},{"start":1064.366,"end":1090.208,"text":"報告委員 他沒有加同業綠素但是假如他直接寫 他是所謂的精緻的所謂的出炸油 這個就是違法現在是在說什麼啦你們大夫職責就在這裡因為如果他沒有加同業綠素他從國外進口感染破油然後他說我這是頂級的感染油如果其他的廠商這樣做 有沒有違法"},{"start":1091.112,"end":1115.084,"text":"有 他違反什麼法他在這個過程當中呢並不是他確確的所謂的原來的所謂的頂級出炸的感染油他沒有寫出炸 他寫頂級感染油即便他寫這個頂級感染油請問他違反什麼法因為市售感染油的你不要在這裡胡說八道我現在在這裡就跟你講"},{"start":1117.028,"end":1140.707,"text":"你的法律不應該講國家標準CNS因為那是沒有強制性那只是參考用的沒有法律的強制性而你現在就是食品安全衛生管理法的施行細則第七條第一項第二款因為你沒有制定"},{"start":1142.566,"end":1163.496,"text":"橄欖油的品名標示標準你沒有所以要用你的施行記者第一條第七條第一項第二款他說經中央主管機關規定者要依中央主管機關規定的名稱但是從假油事件到現在你們通通都沒有制定"},{"start":1164.815,"end":1191.096,"text":"什麼叫做感染有這個名稱那根據你們的施行細則沒有規定者得使用中華民國國家標準鎖定的名稱或是自定其名稱自定其名稱沒有強制性喔謝謝委員 委員其實非常精準的把食安法的施行細則第七條裡面多了跟我們做一些說明上面寫得不是因"},{"start":1192.358,"end":1202.509,"text":"他可以自己定名稱我把感染破友定成頂級感染友請問有沒有違規違法 沒有 沒有那你們做了什麼你們應該做什麼 署長你告訴我"},{"start":1211.277,"end":1231.765,"text":"如果你把什麼叫做感染油你的品名標示標準的法律訂出來今天他這麼做就直接違法了從2013年的假油事件 假感染油事件到現在2026年了 14年了"},{"start":1234.625,"end":1262.237,"text":"我們看到2016年曾經衛福部食藥署說感染油要比照聯合國分五級你後年上路就是2018年要上路曾經到現在經過14年你們獨指你們不敢訂出什麼叫做感染油因為沒有訂出品名的標示標準"},{"start":1263.297,"end":1286.909,"text":"所以業者把感染破由如果沒有添加非法的添加物他跟他說我是頂級感染由沒有違法沒有違法因為政府沒有定出什麼定義什麼叫感染由所以就是對業者最大的縱放而今天 今天在這裡你們了解阿公是縱放"},{"start":1291.037,"end":1318.797,"text":"縱放的責任是誰 是你 是政府縱放廠商 這樣子亂搞的大家都很開心 我也沒什麼頂級啦每一個人的手上都像 我是優質感染油明明的破油 破油為什麼不行你知道嗎 為什麼破油不行破油有沒有違法破油沒有違法對 破油用什麼去萃取的它用感染油破"},{"start":1320.034,"end":1346.277,"text":"不是啦 他加化學溶劑嘛他用溶劑 蒸集完 那你想像不到欸化學溶劑 用脫膠 脫酸 脫色 脫臭的方法去把感染由人家炸完的破 拿回來再萃取合法的使用化學溶劑 合法的添加物"},{"start":1347.625,"end":1368.781,"text":"然後成為破油 破油的健康風險是什麼 你最知道你是腎臟科專家破油使用化學溶劑長期大家以為感染油是好油你不知道你買的感染油是破油因為政府沒有規定一定要把破油寫清楚"},{"start":1369.622,"end":1390.737,"text":"政府沒有規定所以廠商可以自己訂名稱我也不用訂得太好聽我也不用講說我是VIRGIN的我也不要講出詐我只要寫優質感染油也不用優質我就寫感染油其實都是破油化學溶劑萃取 你告訴我健康風險是什麼"},{"start":1391.821,"end":1409.618,"text":"報告委員因為油品出廠其實有個規格如果他的破油他也是一種油可以使用的也不要完全合法的啊合法的啊對我說科技其實進步到可以把這些油能夠做再利用我們要但是他沒有直接把他接到我最後跟你說你大家你會知道破油合法的"},{"start":1412.461,"end":1417.045,"text":"但是我們希望消費者有知情的權利什麼叫橄欖油什麼叫出炸什麼叫混合油你把橄欖油的品名標示標準定出來可以嗎這個部分我們答應可以嗎我們進一步的去研議一定給委員進一步的說明因為這樣子其實是高風險的"},{"start":1433.158,"end":1457.605,"text":"這是高風險的品項嘛 長期吃破油長期吃化學容器萃取的破油這不會是好事所以在這裡看到假油混油藥屬在過去都是個案處理沒有上升到制度層次去回應所以這樣的管理態度太消極我們不能接受而感染油現在絕對不是只有這一家有問題所以在這種狀況裡面"},{"start":1462.169,"end":1479.199,"text":"頂級橄欖油純橄欖油這是什麼油到底是不是橄欖油什麼叫做橄欖油通通都不知道所以我們在這裡希望啊你把橄欖油的品名標示標準法規定出來會很困難嗎"},{"start":1481.004,"end":1492.489,"text":"我們進一步研議再跟委員報告 2013年研議到現在還需要研議嗎是因為廠商的利益被打減損了要跟廠商研議嗎2013年到現在還需要研議嗎馬上制定什麼叫做橄欖油什麼叫破油什麼叫出炸什麼叫這個精緻橄欖油"},{"start":1514.5,"end":1521.73,"text":"因為這整個牽涉的稍微廣 如果可以的話我們三個月內一定把牽涉的稍微廣我們等了13年了啦 2013年到現在"},{"start":1523.775,"end":1539.026,"text":"容我們可以進一步跟周延的謝謝要多久我們是可不可以用三個月的時間我們一定把三個月你是要訂什麼三個月要做什麼我們在這個過程中其實要因為在CNS底下嘛什麼CNS底下你們沒有訂CNS"},{"start":1542.808,"end":1548.731,"text":"不是CNS底下這些品名如何把它轉換 其實都是製程上面要確立現在COGETS是9項 如果你要分成CNS的5項勉強可以 但是已經講夠久了14年13年了 不要再讓人民繼續吃你以為花很貴的買的 其實是破油 不可以這樣啦謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}