{"total":{"value":51,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2026-01-29"],"total_page":1,"ivods":[{"id":"17245","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17245","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/cbbd4ed0b5fcd3a0d600d02e1221ac876d7649687346334ce692bdb9a1e47977b609b65e31e14a5d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-29T15:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院黨團協商（事由：一、繼續研商「住宅法部分條文修正草案」等案。（國民黨黨團提議）二、繼續研商「政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例第四條及第三十四條條文修正草案」案。（國民黨黨團提議））","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-29","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-29T15:00:40+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T16:13:00+08:00","duration":4340,"影片長度":"01:12:20","委員發言時間":"15:00:40 - 16:13:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1760.7009687500001,"end":1775.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1775.6859687500003,"end":1801.1165937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1802.3990937500002,"end":1811.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1811.6297187500002,"end":1816.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1816.2534687500001,"end":1816.2703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1817.2322187500001,"end":1817.2490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1817.2490937500002,"end":1902.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1902.85596875,"end":1903.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1903.96971875,"end":1904.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1904.4253437500001,"end":1904.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1904.96534375,"end":1909.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1907.0240937500002,"end":1907.5809687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1908.5765937500003,"end":1922.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1923.2915937500002,"end":1930.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1931.2734687500001,"end":1941.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1941.7528437500002,"end":1945.0097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1945.2797187500003,"end":1947.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1947.3722187500002,"end":1954.1222187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1954.32471875,"end":1957.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1957.3115937500002,"end":1979.4515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1979.5865937500002,"end":1986.5728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1986.65721875,"end":1992.6815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1992.9347187500002,"end":1998.2840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1998.3009687500003,"end":2006.1815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2007.0422187500003,"end":2021.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2023.5797187500002,"end":2067.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2067.74159375,"end":2070.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2069.2097187500003,"end":2070.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2070.13784375,"end":2070.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2070.82971875,"end":2070.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2070.8465937500005,"end":2070.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2071.90971875,"end":2071.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2071.9265937500004,"end":2077.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2077.20846875,"end":2077.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2077.8328437500004,"end":2080.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2079.2165937500004,"end":2079.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2079.26721875,"end":2081.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2081.4440937500003,"end":2082.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2082.3047187500006,"end":2090.9109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2088.8522187500002,"end":2089.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2092.0078437500006,"end":2096.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2097.3065937500005,"end":2100.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2100.41159375,"end":2182.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2181.4959687500004,"end":2193.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2193.3590937500003,"end":2196.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2200.2440937500005,"end":2204.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2202.03284375,"end":2203.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2206.82534375,"end":2207.4159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2209.3903437500003,"end":2210.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2210.03159375,"end":2211.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2213.42346875,"end":2216.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2216.66346875,"end":2224.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2224.51034375,"end":2224.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2224.6959687500002,"end":2225.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2225.4384687500005,"end":2228.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2228.5097187500005,"end":2229.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2229.91034375,"end":2230.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2230.9734687500004,"end":2232.3065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2232.7959687500006,"end":2240.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2238.6853437500004,"end":2239.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2240.1365937500004,"end":2249.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2249.9578437500004,"end":2265.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2266.09034375,"end":2271.7097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2271.7265937500006,"end":2296.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2297.0897187500004,"end":2298.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2298.5915937500004,"end":2301.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2301.6628437500003,"end":2309.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2309.72909375,"end":2314.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2314.25159375,"end":2326.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2326.5028437500005,"end":2327.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2327.73471875,"end":2328.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2328.3590937500003,"end":2328.4434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2328.4434687500006,"end":2328.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2329.06784375,"end":2329.0847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2329.0847187500003,"end":2351.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2329.2872187500006,"end":2329.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2329.96221875,"end":2330.3672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2330.3672187500006,"end":2330.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2330.38409375,"end":2330.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2330.43471875,"end":2330.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2330.4853437500005,"end":2330.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2330.68784375,"end":2330.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2352.1190937500005,"end":2353.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2353.82346875,"end":2357.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2357.5359687500004,"end":2358.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2357.82284375,"end":2363.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2363.7965937500003,"end":2370.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2370.9178437500004,"end":2377.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2378.05596875,"end":2380.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2380.6884687500005,"end":2382.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2382.03846875,"end":2387.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2382.08909375,"end":2382.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2382.8653437500006,"end":2383.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2384.09721875,"end":2384.1815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2384.1815937500005,"end":2384.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2384.21534375,"end":2385.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2385.0253437500005,"end":2385.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2385.04221875,"end":2385.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2385.1434687500005,"end":2385.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2385.1940937500003,"end":2385.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2386.13909375,"end":2387.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2387.99534375,"end":2395.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2395.3865937500004,"end":2398.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2398.98096875,"end":2399.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2399.9765937500006,"end":2401.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2401.20846875,"end":2401.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2402.7947187500004,"end":2411.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2411.56971875,"end":2412.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2444.23971875,"end":2447.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2450.24721875,"end":2470.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2471.1384687500004,"end":2472.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2472.92721875,"end":2478.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2479.1540937500004,"end":2481.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2484.0309687500003,"end":2485.6678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2484.4022187500004,"end":2485.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2485.70159375,"end":2486.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2486.1572187500005,"end":2486.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2486.5790937500005,"end":2486.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2486.61284375,"end":2487.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2487.9628437500005,"end":2488.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2489.85284375,"end":2491.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2492.2490937500006,"end":2493.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2493.0759687500004,"end":2494.8984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2495.2528437500005,"end":2497.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2497.02471875,"end":2533.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2499.43784375,"end":2501.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2533.66034375,"end":2533.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2533.6940937500003,"end":2534.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2535.53346875,"end":2540.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2540.96721875,"end":2542.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2542.2665937500005,"end":2547.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2547.9365937500006,"end":2550.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2550.8222187500005,"end":2554.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2554.77096875,"end":2562.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2562.3815937500003,"end":2563.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2563.9509687500004,"end":2566.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2566.7184687500003,"end":2571.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2571.7978437500005,"end":2576.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2576.45534375,"end":2579.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2579.17221875,"end":2590.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2590.74846875,"end":2595.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2597.6334687500002,"end":2600.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2600.85659375,"end":2614.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2608.82159375,"end":2609.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2615.47034375,"end":2620.0772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2620.4822187500004,"end":2676.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2676.8447187500005,"end":2679.7472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2680.3884687500004,"end":2710.9490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2711.40471875,"end":2712.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2713.93596875,"end":2714.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2715.38721875,"end":2719.8590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2720.19659375,"end":2728.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2729.96721875,"end":2736.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2730.74346875,"end":2731.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2731.51971875,"end":2733.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2737.00409375,"end":2763.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2765.6747187500005,"end":2765.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2765.69159375,"end":2765.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2765.70846875,"end":2766.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2766.0459687500006,"end":2766.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2766.60284375,"end":2766.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2767.1090937500003,"end":2777.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2767.4972187500007,"end":2768.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2777.45346875,"end":2779.9003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2780.1534687500007,"end":2809.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2809.16159375,"end":2809.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2809.44846875,"end":2810.9334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2811.27096875,"end":2836.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2824.1972187500005,"end":2824.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2836.1278437500005,"end":2836.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2836.8365937500002,"end":2836.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2837.61284375,"end":2838.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2841.20721875,"end":2850.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2850.91034375,"end":2855.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2858.38596875,"end":2860.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2863.02659375,"end":2863.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2864.37659375,"end":2872.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2872.79721875,"end":2876.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2876.4590937500006,"end":2879.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2879.49659375,"end":2881.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2882.01096875,"end":2893.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2893.60409375,"end":2895.9159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2896.11846875,"end":2898.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2898.66659375,"end":2904.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2904.8934687500005,"end":2917.6847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2917.76909375,"end":2924.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2924.4684687500003,"end":2928.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2928.2147187500004,"end":2931.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2932.11284375,"end":2934.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2935.23471875,"end":2940.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2940.43221875,"end":2948.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2948.5997187500006,"end":2950.5234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2951.19846875,"end":2952.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2953.67909375,"end":2983.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2982.6534687500007,"end":2985.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2985.8934687500005,"end":2987.6990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2987.6990937500004,"end":3027.7940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3027.9459687500002,"end":3031.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3031.2028437500003,"end":3089.1853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3091.5309687500003,"end":3100.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3101.1159687500003,"end":3103.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3103.9678437500006,"end":3104.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3104.35596875,"end":3118.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3118.81784375,"end":3131.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3122.9353437500004,"end":3123.3740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3123.94784375,"end":3125.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3131.5584687500004,"end":3135.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3136.6884687500005,"end":3146.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3146.9822187500004,"end":3151.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3151.65659375,"end":3153.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3154.13721875,"end":3155.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3155.68971875,"end":3158.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3159.5372187500006,"end":3161.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3161.5790937500005,"end":3162.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3162.43971875,"end":3163.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3164.61659375,"end":3165.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3165.64596875,"end":3184.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3184.9003437500005,"end":3189.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3190.3340937500006,"end":3193.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3195.17721875,"end":3196.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3200.42534375,"end":3204.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3201.1847187500007,"end":3201.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3201.4884687500007,"end":3202.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3202.23096875,"end":3202.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3202.39971875,"end":3202.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3204.40784375,"end":3204.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3204.7959687500006,"end":3205.2853437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3206.5509687500007,"end":3206.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3207.6309687500006,"end":3208.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3210.6347187500005,"end":3211.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3211.8497187500006,"end":3212.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3213.3347187500003,"end":3213.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3214.65096875,"end":3215.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3216.64221875,"end":3221.3503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3221.9072187500005,"end":3225.2315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3225.8728437500004,"end":3227.6953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3228.5390937500006,"end":3230.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3230.31096875,"end":3241.5665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3241.7184687500003,"end":3243.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3243.62534375,"end":3247.2703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3247.37159375,"end":3248.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3250.5947187500005,"end":3252.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3250.6622187500006,"end":3251.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3253.2947187500004,"end":3254.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3253.6153437500006,"end":3253.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3257.3953437500004,"end":3263.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3265.2422187500006,"end":3265.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3265.7822187500005,"end":3265.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3265.79909375,"end":3265.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3265.9509687500004,"end":3268.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3269.61284375,"end":3294.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3295.2965937500003,"end":3300.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3301.8778437500005,"end":3307.6153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3307.86846875,"end":3311.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3312.1715937500003,"end":3313.7578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3314.21346875,"end":3315.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3315.9178437500004,"end":3317.6053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3318.97221875,"end":3319.1240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3319.15784375,"end":3320.6934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3321.67221875,"end":3322.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3322.9715937500005,"end":3323.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3324.43971875,"end":3325.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3325.3847187500005,"end":3326.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3327.39284375,"end":3328.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3329.8903437500003,"end":3332.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3332.70846875,"end":3333.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3334.1090937500003,"end":3337.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3337.58534375,"end":3339.4753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3341.07846875,"end":3347.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3348.5372187500006,"end":3360.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3361.6659687500005,"end":3365.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3366.0703437500006,"end":3368.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3369.71534375,"end":3370.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3371.5378437500003,"end":3380.7178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3383.8397187500004,"end":3384.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3384.71721875,"end":3385.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3387.06284375,"end":3390.1003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3390.4209687500006,"end":3393.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3393.62721875,"end":3515.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3515.2115937500002,"end":3527.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3528.0197187500007,"end":3534.4659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3535.4109687500004,"end":3536.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3537.1659687500005,"end":3537.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3537.19971875,"end":3540.7940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3541.3340937500006,"end":3547.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3547.51034375,"end":3548.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3549.3834687500002,"end":3551.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3551.4928437500002,"end":3552.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3553.11284375,"end":3554.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3554.56409375,"end":3556.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3557.26409375,"end":3559.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3560.04846875,"end":3568.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3569.0934687500003,"end":3573.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3574.13909375,"end":3579.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3579.5897187500004,"end":3584.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3584.7028437500003,"end":3597.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3598.0847187500003,"end":3604.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3605.1553437500006,"end":3615.2634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3616.74846875,"end":3620.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3620.73096875,"end":3636.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3637.04909375,"end":3637.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3638.5340937500005,"end":3645.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3645.55409375,"end":3647.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3647.2753437500005,"end":3656.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3656.6072187500004,"end":3657.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3657.5690937500003,"end":3660.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3661.3322187500007,"end":3669.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3669.6853437500004,"end":3681.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3681.97034375,"end":3689.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3690.50909375,"end":3692.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3693.15846875,"end":3694.4747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3694.60971875,"end":3702.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3702.87846875,"end":3705.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3706.3378437500005,"end":3709.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3709.08846875,"end":3709.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3709.2234687500004,"end":3721.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3709.2403437500006,"end":3709.2909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3709.30784375,"end":3709.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3721.55909375,"end":3722.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3722.9765937500006,"end":3723.3815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3723.6347187500005,"end":3723.9215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3724.4109687500004,"end":3724.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3725.64284375,"end":3725.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3727.4822187500004,"end":3729.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3729.9628437500005,"end":3730.4353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3730.4353437500004,"end":3731.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3731.14409375,"end":3746.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3746.02784375,"end":3746.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3746.0615937500006,"end":3746.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3746.1122187500005,"end":3746.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3746.14596875,"end":3746.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3746.50034375,"end":3746.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3746.51721875,"end":3746.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3746.5847187500003,"end":3746.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3746.87159375,"end":3751.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3752.0859687500006,"end":3754.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3755.61284375,"end":3765.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3765.8897187500006,"end":3777.8203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3778.1240937500006,"end":3793.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3793.5984687500004,"end":3800.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3800.5340937500005,"end":3803.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3803.8078437500008,"end":3805.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3806.2715937500006,"end":3810.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3811.53659375,"end":3813.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3814.18596875,"end":3817.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3818.3034687500003,"end":3819.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3820.44659375,"end":3821.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3821.5603437500004,"end":3827.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3828.8165937500007,"end":3829.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3830.21721875,"end":3830.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3832.68096875,"end":3833.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3834.7059687500005,"end":3836.2753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3836.9503437500007,"end":3837.7097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3838.6884687500005,"end":3840.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3841.5065937500003,"end":3852.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3854.4328437500008,"end":3856.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3856.8122187500003,"end":3861.1659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3861.8240937500004,"end":3862.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3863.4103437500007,"end":3866.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3866.86971875,"end":3867.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3867.6290937500007,"end":3868.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3869.0634687500005,"end":3869.9578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3870.5147187500006,"end":3871.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3872.21909375,"end":3873.6365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3874.4128437500003,"end":3878.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3879.15471875,"end":3883.3565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3884.2003437500007,"end":3887.0353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3887.23784375,"end":3890.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3891.1865937500006,"end":3900.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3900.3497187500006,"end":3902.9990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3903.62346875,"end":3904.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3905.12534375,"end":3906.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3906.94784375,"end":3911.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3911.7740937500002,"end":3916.0097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3916.2628437500007,"end":3918.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3919.3847187500005,"end":3921.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3922.06784375,"end":3922.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3923.38409375,"end":3923.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3924.53159375,"end":3926.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3927.2822187500005,"end":3930.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3931.16346875,"end":3933.1378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3933.81284375,"end":3935.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3935.75346875,"end":3937.5422187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3937.9303437500002,"end":3945.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3945.2540937500007,"end":3947.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3947.9540937500005,"end":3950.4178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3951.3290937500005,"end":3952.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3952.8478437500007,"end":3966.8878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3967.44471875,"end":3970.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3971.3934687500005,"end":3972.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3974.3972187500003,"end":3976.1690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3976.3547187500008,"end":4007.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4007.75909375,"end":4031.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4032.10971875,"end":4033.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4034.47221875,"end":4041.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4042.8084687500004,"end":4051.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4052.37659375,"end":4059.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4060.2740937500002,"end":4060.7803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4061.3034687500003,"end":4063.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4064.0709687500002,"end":4066.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4067.26034375,"end":4069.0997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4069.8084687500004,"end":4070.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4070.92221875,"end":4077.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4078.0097187500005,"end":4078.5665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4078.63409375,"end":4078.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4078.6678437500004,"end":4082.7178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4082.9540937500005,"end":4084.7765937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4084.91159375,"end":4090.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4091.23971875,"end":4092.0665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4093.1297187500004,"end":4095.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4095.9647187500004,"end":4107.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4108.46909375,"end":4109.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4110.42659375,"end":4110.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4111.60784375,"end":4112.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4112.704718749999,"end":4113.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4113.649718750001,"end":4118.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4119.032843749999,"end":4119.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4120.484093749999,"end":4132.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4133.714093750001,"end":4135.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4136.73471875,"end":4137.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4137.94971875,"end":4138.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4139.35034375,"end":4141.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4141.56096875,"end":4143.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4143.90659375,"end":4144.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4144.767218749999,"end":4145.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4145.610968749999,"end":4146.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4146.977843750001,"end":4157.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4157.524718750001,"end":4158.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4158.99284375,"end":4161.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4162.452218750001,"end":4163.329718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4163.937218749999,"end":4164.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4165.202843749999,"end":4166.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4167.00846875,"end":4170.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4170.95721875,"end":4172.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4173.454718749999,"end":4174.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4175.02409375,"end":4175.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4176.99846875,"end":4186.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4187.427218750001,"end":4188.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4188.979718750001,"end":4190.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4190.987843749999,"end":4218.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4218.66284375,"end":4219.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4219.32096875,"end":4219.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4229.935343749999,"end":4231.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4231.673468749999,"end":4237.815968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4239.01409375,"end":4239.267218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4240.09409375,"end":4245.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4247.11409375,"end":4275.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4276.1728437500005,"end":4286.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4290.229718750001,"end":4295.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4296.0009687500005,"end":4298.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4305.450968749999,"end":4306.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4324.80659375,"end":4328.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4324.84034375,"end":4330.341593749999}],"whisperx":[{"start":1760.708,"end":1778.812,"text":"好 謝謝開會時間已到我們謝謝各位黨團幹部謝謝內政部劉部長各位列席的官員各位工作夥伴我們今天繼續要協商住宅法修正案及黨產條例修正案本來昨天協商的時候針對第47條有請內政部跟黨團繼續溝通今天我們繼續從47條開始進行討論還是一樣回到這個討論的主要的劉許廷委員以及內政部劉部長現在介紹"},{"start":1790.596,"end":1815.878,"text":"我做一個補充宣告1月27號黨團協商達成共識第10條不予修正維持現行條文第57條之一不予增訂另外介紹一下今天我們列席的各機關代表首先再次歡迎內政部劉部長法務部的謝參事好謝謝那我們請劉許廷委員發言內政部劉部長請準備好嗎我們要做準備做宣告請"},{"start":1817.284,"end":1830.332,"text":"好謝謝主席我們昨天討論到第47條有關於租屋市場透明化的這樣子的一個實際上的一個執行方法那我們回去做了研究之後我們還是覺得應該要有單憑租金才能夠比較完整的反應這個租屋市場的一個狀況因為"},{"start":1833.314,"end":1858.782,"text":"只有單位面積的租金才是有一個完全可比性的真實價格水準你如果只是用片面的總價來講因為有大有小嘛那它可能會常常變成說租金總價不變可是坪數其實縮水它其實就是反映租金的價格一個上漲嘛叫做隱形的租金通膨嘛那以目前這個內政部有提供沒有面積目前的資訊揭露來看比如說以新北市不分類物件租金50分位的價格就是中位數的價格它甚至高於台北市可是這就顯然與真實的狀況有所不符嘛"},{"start":1861.323,"end":1877.391,"text":"台北市的租金應該是不至於比新北市來更加便宜所以我們當然是希望既然有這個修法的契機在這個指標要合理來做調整讓它用單憑租金的方式來處理那麼內政部執行起來當然會有一點點辛苦但是我們每一年花了好幾百億去做租金補貼去做包租代管"},{"start":1877.791,"end":1902.15,"text":"我們希望這每一分公帑發揮出去的時候不只是照顧到租客也應該要有額外的政策效果既然我們都要花錢讓這些人去領補助讓這些人去享有更好的那個你就應該要刻意一定的義務也就是說在租賃的時候就要把更多的資料完整的來做填寫就可以解決說我沒有辦法去計算租賃面積的這樣的一個狀況我認為這個在技術上是完全可以克服的因此所以我們還是希望堅持按照本來的版本來做通過 以上"},{"start":1903.13,"end":1922.811,"text":"好,謝謝劉許廷委員再一次的說明,我們接著請劉部長,部長說完我們就做決定謝謝院長跟各位黨團的委員,那個有關於這個47條的部分,我們還是會覺得說務實來看待第一個,就現行租金補貼的資料,一共有四成的租屋型態,就是分租套養房,也就是我們昨天所說的部分"},{"start":1923.531,"end":1944.249,"text":"如果我們現在用美萍的單位的部分來影響它的租金補貼的話其實不具它的客觀性跟參考性而且房客也沒有辦法正確填練跟判斷房東也有這樣的狀況那並不是後端我們需要再做勾結的部分而是真正沒有辦法達到這個部分那如果一定要求這樣做了第一個我們並沒有罰則"},{"start":1945.73,"end":1964.56,"text":"那沒有法則如果他說謊那我們也不曉得如何處理這一塊反而會影響到最後作為租金單價統計分析公佈的時候呢特關性跟參考性降低到非常多那再何況很多人引用說是歐洲的部分我們昨天已經講過了台灣因為有公社的部分"},{"start":1965.16,"end":1979.742,"text":"那公社怎麼樣納進去所謂的分租雅房裡面到底是有多少每坪單價的面積真的是非常不容易處理我還是一直講的我們都知道這個租金的部分如果能夠越透明化是越好但是它是要漸進的"},{"start":1980.623,"end":2004.55,"text":"如果現在直接把它放到法令裡面來的話一定會造成未來在租金補貼或者是說在租屋市場上面確實會有非常大的一個混亂期而不是說只有陣痛過去就好也就是我們剛講到了屋齡建物型態公設筆裝修設備管服等等這些所以你如果用這樣的部分就來反映合理的市場的行情的話我覺得還是在務實層面上確實沒辦法達到以上"},{"start":2007.72,"end":2020.278,"text":"謝謝劉部長的再次說明因為從昨天下午到現在我們針對47條已經來說花了兩天的時間的討論各黨團也都表達了意見我想我們47條還是沒有辦法達成共識那我們就保留送院會進行"},{"start":2023.835,"end":2040.332,"text":"我想非常感謝院長主持這樣的協商這麼慎重那其實這兩天下來包括年委員的一個的說明我們都覺得也各有各的幾分理啦其實呢政策就是要讓大家比較"},{"start":2041.273,"end":2067.002,"text":"讓大家去支持他認為最對的政策那是不是可以有這樣的請求雖然呢不能達成共識但是未來在處理的時候我想牛委員應該不反對如果說我們國中版本的這個描述方式比較切合我們諸大眾的需求而內政部的建議的條文他有他執行面上的考量那每個黨有他支持的一個內容而且各自對他支持的版本向社會負責那能否"},{"start":2067.822,"end":2089.549,"text":"能否真的是很誠懇的請求說有兩次的表決,兩個版本的表決這表決一定是我們的版本先表決,沒有過再換他們的版本不然本來就是這樣了,一向都是如此好的,沒有問題,平常就有自己的版本好嗎?好,那我們就送院會寶,謝謝我們進行第52條"},{"start":2093.426,"end":2110.139,"text":"討論 條文討論 劉許廷委員所提出來的修正動議麻煩請劉許廷委員發言一下 內政部請準備好嗎好 謝謝主席這一條其實在委員會的時候大概就已經有達成一個共識了但是應該是在最後確認文字的時候大概有一些疏漏啦把這個條文的關鍵的四個字不知道為什麼拿掉了"},{"start":2110.539,"end":2139,"text":"那拿掉之後在整個法條上唸起來是完全不通順的當初修正的目的是希望因為我們現在有花很多的資源在投入包租代管這個方向我們是完全支持內政部但問題是實務上這幾年的走向是大部分人都去申請了代管而不是包租但其實走包租比較容易建立這個穩定而且長遠的這個房源供應比較有助於這個合理的改善租市場的體質所以說我們希望透過修正這個法條讓包租的補助不低於代管的2.5倍"},{"start":2139.941,"end":2154.768,"text":"那我們當然希望就是說你政府我們是完全支持增加增變預算的也就是說在貸款的補助金額不變的情況下我增加對於包租的這個預算補助讓大家更有誘因去選擇包租讓包租的比例能夠至少要跟貸款切齊嘛"},{"start":2155.448,"end":2181.222,"text":"現在是壓倒性的代管比較多而包租不足夠當然還有很多的一些細節要來做調整比如說租罷的問題等等這個我們都非常樂意在後續來做調整我們也答應了相關的這個工會因為他們有表達一些擔憂我們在下個會期的時候我們來召開公聽會針對詳細的一個執行希望內政部可以擬出一個更好的辦法但前提是我認為增加對於包租的補助的誘因這件事情是可以做而且相對來講成本沒有那麼高衝擊也沒有那麼大的所以"},{"start":2181.522,"end":2207.3,"text":"提出了修正動議 以上謝謝劉許廷委員發言特別跟民進黨團還有台灣民眾黨團報告一下因為這個案 這個第52條基本上已經差不多達成共識就少四個字叫不得掃魚所以劉委員發言各位兩位黨團要發言請隨時舉手我們請內政部來表達那個劉委員提一個新的修正動議不得掃魚是表示變成是下限欸太高了"},{"start":2209.574,"end":2231.707,"text":"那沒關係,民進黨團請表達意見沒問題,請這是天花板或是樓立板的問題嘛,這種選擇嘛所以這個最多就是2.5倍,你不要說不得少於2.5倍,往上,對你也上去啦看我們演繹不一樣,我們說明一下,對差很多那台灣民眾黨團要表達意見嗎?"},{"start":2233.628,"end":2257.834,"text":"張啟凱委員陳昭志委員需要表達意見嗎還是我們先聽內政部說明好請劉部長請因為這有一點不太一樣了是我知道謝謝院長本來我們在審查會通過條文的時候是2.5倍那本來內政部所提出的版本是2.5倍為原則但是現在那個劉許廷委員提到說不得少於2.5倍的話這等於是2.5倍是一個樓地板變成下線這樣反而往上修"},{"start":2258.374,"end":2265.341,"text":"那跟大家報告一下我們所累積的10萬戶的這個有效契約數裡面包租的戶數是35%代管的戶數是65%這是我們累積出來這是實際上的正確的數字那如果你把它變成是2.5倍的話呢跟各位報告第一個呢我們本來在修繕的補助的時候如果他是弱勢戶本來就比較多一般戶比較少"},{"start":2283.178,"end":2295.21,"text":"然後這些修正的補助是給房東那如果你原來這是我們1.25倍時候的做法那你如果跳增成2.5倍甚至更高的話那10年內呢它變成要增加100億"},{"start":2297.148,"end":2326.029,"text":"我們用這樣子的估算下去會變成增加100億那如果說各位覺得說未來再包租代管業者呢也可以解決我們現在所要推動的這個空餘物的問題的話我們也願意來協助但是變成是劉許題文委員講的說是不得少於2.5倍的話目前為止我們手頭上就沒有這個資料說要增加多少錢增加多少錢所以第一個是不是不要用不得少於因為這個部分確實跳增太大而且都是給房東的以上"},{"start":2329.383,"end":2352.95,"text":"建議維持委員會的條文我唸一下委員會的條文給你們聽一下你們就知道我的意思了他說前項服務得由租屋服務事業辦理其認定及獎勵辦法由中央主管定制這沒有問題其中屬第19條一項六款陳出民間住宅並轉租及代為媒合管理物件之補助出租人總金額媒合陳出租雙方及代為管理物件2.5倍這個是不通順的嘛"},{"start":2354.031,"end":2377.47,"text":"因為當初修正的版本就是不得少於2.5倍這樣才是通順的嘛所以你照委員會修正通過了反而很奇怪啊不管是在語句上面或者是法律的效果上面都會出現問題的我不知道為什麼當初當初大家講好其實在委員會的時候大家就已經講好是2.5倍不得少於2.5倍啊這個掉紀錄就可以知道啊通過的公式是這樣但我不知道為什麼最後長出來奇奇怪怪語句不通順的版本啦所以我是覺得還是要把它修回來才是正確的"},{"start":2379.411,"end":2385.257,"text":"跟院長跟各位報告一下,如果剛剛劉許廷委員講的部分就是倒數第二行,媒合、誠、出租、雙方等等這些前面加一個違其實就可以了,違"},{"start":2402.83,"end":2412.313,"text":"加一個微就可以了但是我們還是不太同意說現在把2.5倍當成不得少於2.5倍因為這樣真的是跳增太快跳增太快"},{"start":2444.284,"end":2471.997,"text":"那個羅志強委員請發言其實我不想講數學問題你不得少於2.5倍那到底決定要不要高於2.5倍還是內政部決定啊但是如果把它定系在2.5倍那你是失去你的彈性可是如果內政部真的要做你不得少於你還是可以做2.5倍啊那不是一樣的道理"},{"start":2472.967,"end":2480.817,"text":"但是你還是保留一個往上的空間嘛但往上的空間財力的安全是內政部嘛所以我覺得這是數學問題吧"},{"start":2489.932,"end":2519.558,"text":"就是維持2.5倍 維2.5倍啊就是這樣嘛當初在委會也是這個意思嘛永遠在委會嘛那就要不然就保留吧還是我補充說明一下我們修這一條的核心用意就是要加大對包租的補助那這個東西我們之所以講說是一個下限就是我至少要做到這個程度如果我要發現不夠我要再加碼我給政府更大的空間也就是你要3倍4倍5倍都可以如果他可以這樣促進這樣的政策的平衡我覺得是好事但你今天如果是寫維2.5倍你就定死在那個地方嘛"},{"start":2520.078,"end":2534.283,"text":"所以我們的寫法是包含的如果內政部真的執行起來有困難你就先從2.5倍開始如果一直都卡住或有狀況你就先維持但如果有突破值得加碼就可以馬上加碼不用再經過修法的程序嘛好不好所以不得少元還是比較好的啦好的 宗教編員請翻譯"},{"start":2535.575,"end":2563.313,"text":"在法律上如果你定為什麼什麼什麼的2.5倍行政機關就是以這個為準但你後面講的那些行政機關留有它的一個空間但是如果你寫不得少於那就一種義務其實我們把法律法律條文規定的是義務以外要增加的是行政職權但是你的不得少於在認知上跟為2.5倍我們要強調的是當時的本意我們無法追究"},{"start":2564.013,"end":2590.415,"text":"但是委員會送出的條文就是這樣子那如果真的有語句不通要符合原來委員會送的條文加個字就是為媒合曾出租雙方即待為管理物件還有再更嚴謹的知2.5倍如果真的是文句是這樣的話修辭是這樣子那就是2.5倍的意思委員會送的就是2.5倍現在故意把它講成不得少於2.5倍已經在法律上是必須是往這個以上來發展"},{"start":2591.816,"end":2595.558,"text":"這個在法律觀念上是不同的我們這裡不是講修辭這裡是不同的法律觀念好 麥玉珍委請發言 羅志強請準備好 謝謝主席我記得我們當時在討論的時候就是我們的民眾黨的條文是因為那個稅收還補助的我們就是說要三萬因為包租給他多一點優惠這樣子的話他們就"},{"start":2620.769,"end":2625.213,"text":"補助他們的稅這樣我們才會覺得說包租對我們的弱勢族群比較優惠因為那時候我們是邀著這樣所以我們的署長就是說他這個不要用這樣子的數據去補助才會改著說這是不少2.5倍"},{"start":2642.067,"end":2662.645,"text":"是這樣子的後來去討論的同意是這樣子的但是所以我們現在這條又來再來這個拿出來討論我們就不知道是怎麼回事因為我們希望真的是讓更多人拿房子出來做包租不要敗寡因為我們收到很多就是平數的不一樣"},{"start":2664.747,"end":2666.81,"text":"當是搬進來了你沒有身份證他要捐你渣錢你要設立戶籍他要給你渣錢所以我們就會避免這些才會說要求這個法以上報告 謝謝"},{"start":2680.421,"end":2694.226,"text":"我這樣講 其實它也不只數學問題 它也是法律問題我覺得法律很少把這個所謂的標準定到實時的為什麼 我舉個例子嘛今天 我今天舉個例子嘛照這個版本 2.5倍合法嘛2.51倍也合法 2.52倍也合法那誰決定 內政部決定嘛"},{"start":2700.188,"end":2728.056,"text":"如果內政部真的就是2.5倍一定要綁死他還是有選擇權啊可是問題你這個如果是你用2.5倍寫法那我就問一個問題嘛 法律問題啊2.49倍有沒有合法2.51倍有沒有合法對不對不是 我要這樣講就是說基本上給你選擇的空間嘛那你最後內政部不做還是一樣但是你保留一個往上的空間到底內政部在ㄍㄧㄥ什麼我是不太懂啦 不太懂啦"},{"start":2729.997,"end":2732.121,"text":"沒關係 我想各黨團內政府的意見大家都已經好 陳培議 水長請說"},{"start":2737.085,"end":2763.579,"text":"其實內政部在之前其實已經有講過如果你要這樣寫法其實會過度傾斜房東這真的是好事嗎剛剛麥玉珍委員說是為了照顧弱勢但是如果這個補助最後都是傾向房東這真的是你們國民黨跟民眾黨要的嗎所以剛剛羅志強問說為什麼內政部這麼堅持他就已經跟你們說過而且不是只有今天才說之前黨團協商的時候也說過然後在修法的委員會裡面也都說過了所以我相信委員們應該都非常清楚謝謝主席"},{"start":2766.257,"end":2771.12,"text":"主席不是不是要給我們知道就是為了讓房東拿房子出來租因為解決你們的那個那個十萬戶嘛解決十萬戶的社會住宅才會說用這個來去讓大家更多可以弱勢可以租房子所以才會說三項雙項的來去來去做所以我們希望"},{"start":2794.674,"end":2799.735,"text":"讓包租包租就是老闆才不會去看是誰租代管他們就會看說是誰所以很多家裡有老人的這個是說有小孩的很多代管都不給所以我們希望真正的照顧弱勢才會說給包租他們才會減稅所以才說補助他們多一點補助三萬"},{"start":2822.822,"end":2825.203,"text":"所以後來就說不要五株三萬要用這樣的倍數來比較好算還有我們的國稅級他們比較好作業所以我們已經同意了所以今天又拿出來討論我們不知道為什麼啦 是這樣我想"},{"start":2841.226,"end":2860.291,"text":"第52條我想各黨團還有內政部都已經發言非常非常的多非常清楚了我想我們一樣我們沒辦法達成共識第52條我們還是要保留送院會進行處理 好吧 謝謝我們現在處理附帶決議 我們宣讀一下"},{"start":2863.109,"end":2886.151,"text":"附带决议建云住宅法第52条修正后政府将投入大量预算资源扩大包租市场其补贴总金额下限设定为贷款案件之2.5倍国家财政负担显著增加行政部门即应确保政策产出相应之公共效益以落实居住正义然过去实务经验显示即便有补贴若是租屋族人常因年龄身份遭房东货业者技术性排除"},{"start":2886.571,"end":2902.115,"text":"若政府透过高额补贴成租民间住宅转做社会住宅却无法解决挑房客之结构性问题将严重违反预算编列之正当性与合理性原请主管机关落实以下行政作为因内政部应重新检视并修正包租贷款相关奖励办法"},{"start":2902.455,"end":2927.903,"text":"确立高补贴邻歧视之政策原则针对参与包租方案之租屋服务事业对于符合资格之经济或社会弱势层租赁除法庭事由外不得以年龄身心障碍或其他社会身份特征为由拒绝出租而为了落实上述原则要求内政部应于相关执法或契约范本中明定包租业者落实不得挑选房客之具体义务主管机关应建立考核机制将弱势户媒合成功率"},{"start":2928.283,"end":2952.086,"text":"及拒绝安置率纳入租屋服务事业之评鉴指标对于无正当理由拒绝弱势房客之包租业者应订定删减补贴或退场机制以确保预算执行符合政策正当性三起内政部与本法修正通过后三个月内向立法院内政委员会提出具体执行方案及防弊机制之书面报告宣读完毕谢谢各位党团干部附带决议大家徐宇峥委员请发言"},{"start":2954.137,"end":2981.109,"text":"針對這個附帶決議主要是因為依照我們過去的實務經驗顯示即便有補助有補貼然後但是因為很長時間是因為年齡跟身份就遭到房東或業者技術性的排除所以有挑房客這樣的一個問題所以我們是希望內政部能夠有相關的執法或契約的範本中能夠明定的落實不要挑選房客讓我們這些弱勢的或是長者他們不會因為這樣而導致沒有辦法租到他們該"},{"start":2981.969,"end":2982.59,"text":"謝謝許政委們的說明"},{"start":2986.073,"end":3012.219,"text":"內政部請表達意見好嗎 謝謝好 謝謝幾位委員所提到的附帶決議的部分當然是站在弱勢的立場來處理但是因為要我們來訂定執法協不得挑選房客或者是歧視的話這樣的定義比較模糊那在執行上就會出現困難就是難以界定跟舉證那也跟大家報告一下如果他是包租代管業者的時候因為他可以處理的房子戶數比較多"},{"start":3014.179,"end":3029.355,"text":"所以我們可以總體的要求它符合我們住宅法裡面40%像現在我們包租代管業者裡面呢所提出來的已經有43%是屬於剛剛所明定的弱勢戶包括單親家庭或是身心障礙者但是如果你把它規範變成是每一戶"},{"start":3031.337,"end":3052.267,"text":"都有不得挑選房客或是有這個拒絕安置率的話就可能會漏掉說未來包租代管業者來協助我們住宅法40%的這個部分所以在文字上的修正第一個我們可不可以把它納入用延譯的方式讓我們知道說它是一整群的房屋而不是"},{"start":3052.807,"end":3073.455,"text":"一棟房屋那一整群的房屋的好處就是說也許他A房租不到他可以租B房的方式這是一個那如果你沒有把它明定清楚的話呢確實沒有辦法一戶一戶就要求他再挑房客或者是這個零歧視這樣的原則可不可以修改一下然後因為我們還要"},{"start":3074.535,"end":3086.499,"text":"在PALA具體義務再做清楚一下所以我們在本法修正通過以後三個月的時間是不是再給我們多三個月那我們把這個防弊的機制跟執行的方案提供書面報告給我們委員來參考 以上"},{"start":3092.668,"end":3118.363,"text":"現在這樣內政部又提了一個版本現在已經到各位手上那現在提案的國民黨團針對劉部長的說明現在才出來內政部發的然後呢請國民黨團請補充意見好嗎我想依照剛剛內政部長劉部長的說法的話因為其實我們主要的就是希望不要挑選房客能夠落實這樣的一個這個機制那剛剛部長講說他們會先去研議那把三個月改成六個月這個部分我們可以同意"},{"start":3119.164,"end":3129.981,"text":"提到國民黨團同意內政部的一個建議好不好我們就改為演議那現在內政部版本已經可以可以可以請大家看一下好我現在本案現在已經有協商草稿請議事長發下"},{"start":3131.598,"end":3157.979,"text":"然後我在這裡來念一下各位我們達成的協商草稿協商主題延商住宅法部分條文修正草案協商結論一保留條文47條第52條送院會處理二協商通過條文第4條第18條如附件含立法說明三第10條不予修正維持現行條文四第57條之一不予徵定"},{"start":3160.521,"end":3166.406,"text":"5.甄列附帶決議一項如附件6."},{"start":3166.406,"end":3170.008,"text":"其餘均照審查會審查結果通過7."},{"start":3170.008,"end":3179.596,"text":"本案院會進行處理時廣泛討論,各黨派推派一位發言,每位委員發言三分鐘足調討論時,各黨團均不再發言保留條文1."},{"start":3179.596,"end":3182.879,"text":"各黨團版本提出先後進行處理,禮讓"},{"start":3184.946,"end":3195.329,"text":"民進黨團版本有限這就是剛剛柯總統所提的各位黨團幹部有意見嗎沒有意見好那就拜託大家請簽字第五項附帶決議是照內政部的這個"},{"start":3210.68,"end":3227.126,"text":"廖長不好意思我請教一下黃總統請那個第七點啊處理的時候廣泛討論各黨團推派一人發言每人發言三分鐘逐條討論都不發言保留條文依各黨盤提出先後進行處理"},{"start":3228.564,"end":3251.458,"text":"那為什麼要先離讓民進黨團因為剛剛您不在我們講是兩個版本因為有一個不得少於25%是這樣的一個情況他完全沒有其他任何其他的想法一點都沒有就是民進黨團是先給他表決剛剛國民黨團台灣民眾黨團也都同意因為他並沒有任何衝突好可以好謝謝好請簽字謝謝"},{"start":3258.436,"end":3259.837,"text":"謝謝內政部劉部長 謝謝謝謝各位列席的官員 謝謝我們現在進入"},{"start":3270.256,"end":3292.707,"text":"接下來要討論的協商主題是國民黨團所提議協商的政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例第4條及第34條條文修正草案本案於114年12月31號已由國民黨團羅志強召集委員協商因為協商並沒有達成共識因此於本次會議我們繼續進行協商"},{"start":3295.373,"end":3318.978,"text":"首先我要介紹各行政機關的列席代表我們介紹首先介紹不當黨產處理委員會的林主任委員歡迎您請坐司法院民事廳的林廳長歡迎您請坐法務部謝參事請坐內政部陳專務委員財政部羅保管組的羅副組長請坐"},{"start":3324.502,"end":3336.706,"text":"教育部理副處長 歡迎請坐交通部觀光署曹組長 歡迎請坐國防部政治作戰局嚴克長 歡迎您 謝謝"},{"start":3341.121,"end":3357.833,"text":"我想為了有利於我們協商的進度麻煩各黨團直接針對第四條以及第三四條分別表達意見如果主管機關有補充的意見我們再行說明這樣的話會比較好我們有關本日協商會議我們依據結論如下我們現在"},{"start":3371.598,"end":3385.448,"text":"我們現在政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例第四條及第三四條條文修正草案重點我們請提案的劉浩委員請說明"},{"start":3394.593,"end":3408.953,"text":"OK 謝謝謝謝院長 還有今天召開協商有關於檔案條例修正案第四條第三四條修法那之前有協商但是那時候沒有取得共識那今天謝謝院長再次召開那主要修正的部分是第四條跟第三四條"},{"start":3409.614,"end":3424.562,"text":"那其實救護團一直都是大家心中所公認最好的一個公益團體之一那不僅是在防疫期間還擔任模範生的角色還記憶寫書防疫在救災甚至都扮演急先鋒但是卻被"},{"start":3425.763,"end":3453.262,"text":"列為這樣子不當條例不當條例之後被這樣子清算不僅是在人事財務上一切都受任何的限制啊那這樣其實是一個意識形態或是說是整個這個對於公益團體是非常大的傷害啊那所以說今天的這個修正條文確實是公益不能等啦那我也是希望說還救我團以及公益團體的公道所以在修正條文第四條的部分還在或以及"},{"start":3454.102,"end":3476.068,"text":"籍的部分那人事財務或業務任何一項還是修法重點的時候改成籍但是民共黨這邊其實有討論那其實這個貨跟籍的部分是沒有問題所以這個部分可以維持籍在修正條文中那另外修法重點排除國家增訂成隸屬於國家者不在此限那因為當判條例中立法目的是在處理政黨財產不應該混淆國家與政黨"},{"start":3479.429,"end":3497.761,"text":"那再來第三四條的部分是讓修正有益錯誤必須要也要做導正所以溯及基網的部分它的修法重點是在於它溯至本條例公佈實行日前適用還以理此來能夠讓重新本法能夠保障結社自由及財產權"},{"start":3499.282,"end":3526.138,"text":"還不僅希望就是民進黨的委員啊能夠一起來支持還舊國團及公益團體公道因為今天的直播我相信許多舊國團的夥伴跟社會許多上公益團體對那謝謝那也希望鍾嘉賓委員是舊國團的屏東的副主委啊那所以說其實今天的角色其實特別是要麻煩您還可以讓大家一起來支持舊國團這個公益團體的公道謝謝"},{"start":3528.066,"end":3540.384,"text":"好 謝謝提案的我們黨團 國民黨團的尤浩委員的發言民進黨團請發言 台灣民眾黨團請準備謝謝主席衝著尤浩委員這兩晚的點名 我就要告訴尤浩委員"},{"start":3541.397,"end":3568.028,"text":"不要糟蹋曾經或現在加入救國團從事公益的人不要糟蹋這些人這些人不是國民黨的財產這些人做的公益奉獻他們的青春所做的不管是教育、旅遊都是為著他們崇高的理想他們不是為了國民黨這個組織我們來看一看在這些人加入救國團或者說中國青年反共救國團之前"},{"start":3569.161,"end":3596.881,"text":"本團的工作我念一下余浩偉你曾經加入過你要看一下中國青年反共救國團在社會為國防部所屬單位之一在黨內為本黨最重要清運機構今後中國青年反共救國團對重要工作之策劃與執行均應先行呈報中央接受黨的指導"},{"start":3598.14,"end":3611.277,"text":"即以增進清運工作之效果中華民國46年8月7日我們現在不要混淆我們現在討論的不是現在不管他是70歲80歲還是現在20幾歲仍然在參與各地"},{"start":3616.789,"end":3627.375,"text":"救國團這些工作的熱血青年或中年或老年我們講的是在民國46年的時候這個曾經隸屬於中國國民黨的護水組織因著當時中國國民黨是一個威權統治的國家機關他不當地將國家的資產交給救國團來使用今天"},{"start":3638.618,"end":3655.96,"text":"千萬不要把這些參與過救國團的人所做的公益用來掩護用來漂白國民黨附隨組織這樣一個歷史事實這不是你油耗委員一句話拿全體曾經參加過救國團工作的人就可以抹煞的"},{"start":3656.681,"end":3679.535,"text":"本人也參加過救國團過去半年的青年工作我們參加水上救生我們沒有再問他是不是中國國民黨的覆水組織我們出生的比較晚我們在民國五十年後才出生民國四十六年中國國民黨要求中國青年反國救團做的事情在歷史文件上他們侵奪的財產還掛在他的帳下"},{"start":3682.258,"end":3688.868,"text":"這個不是能抹煞的你不要以為你在江湖中你金盆洗手你過去的不義之財就可以不用歸還人家說 喜還喜 黑還黑"},{"start":3693.408,"end":3722.618,"text":"現在做公益的人不能成為國民黨的遮羞布啊把這些人的青春跟熱情拿來掩飾國民黨的不當的黨產這是最不要臉的事情還有臉去講救國團的人在做公益是這些人在做公益不是你救國團在做公益搞清楚民國40年46年寫在這裡尤華委員你要點我名一次我就講給所有跟我一樣為救國團打拚的人讓他們知道是你們在糟蹋人家"},{"start":3723.139,"end":3723.721,"text":"蕭平兄 好 謝謝"},{"start":3727.826,"end":3732.67,"text":"今天談救國團,氣力不要太大救國團是很多人甜蜜回憶跟公義的總和"},{"start":3755.66,"end":3777.168,"text":"很多人從學生時代就參加救護團的活動文藝營、戰鬥營非常多的活動很多參加朋友到現在都是一輩子的朋友而且他做了非常多的公益我印象很深刻在疫情期間救護團率先站出來把青年健談活動中心作為防疫旅館"},{"start":3778.328,"end":3802.926,"text":"還有去年丹納斯風災的時候還有花蓮這個災情他們都跟鏟子超人在那邊一起在一起在救災所以今天大家火氣不用太大我們從歷史的這個歷史角度來看看這個救火團真正的這個狀況救火團是在民國41年由行政院來籌組的那時候是隸屬在國防部它是依法成立的"},{"start":3803.911,"end":3830.572,"text":"準行政機關不是任何單位的附隨組織他是不符合黨產條例裡面的不當黨產到了民國58年跟78年的時候他變成了公益社團組織78年以後他成為我們中華民國第一個社團法人社團法人可是呢"},{"start":3832.705,"end":3852.505,"text":"不當黨產委員會竟是把它列為不當黨產他這念完之後他的資產已經全部被凍結了他狹下所有的業務活動跟動資全部都要提一詳細的說明喔連公益的這個募款這個募款還有幫助這個弱勢團體甚至叫活動"},{"start":3854.685,"end":3870.797,"text":"執行前都必須送不讓黨產委員會去同意這樣一個運作對台灣的公益推動是好的嗎是好的嗎所以台灣民眾黨贊成這次的修法我們主張第四條明定"},{"start":3872.387,"end":3889.893,"text":"護水組織這一部分曾經隸屬於國家者不再此現我剛講得非常清楚當初41年成立的時候救國團是屬於隸屬於國防部另外34條我們主張本條例之修正條文追溯到"},{"start":3891.6,"end":3899.365,"text":"這個條例公布實施的那一天開始也就是民國105年的8月10日開始這是台灣民眾黨明確的主張 謝謝"},{"start":3904.026,"end":3931.425,"text":"謝謝院長其實我們協商過以下所表達的其實之前也都表達過再說一次救護團在41年的時候成立它的成立是中國國民黨的中常會的前身中改會所決定的交由行政院去籌辦但是並沒有任何的立法所以剛剛講依法成立救護團這是一個錯誤的事情這個本會已經經過詳細的調查"},{"start":3933.846,"end":3950.068,"text":"提出非常清楚的證據剛才包括鍾嘉斌委員講的那些過程其實我們都提出了相關的檔案都不是我們一個人說了算如果有任何哪一位委員可以找到說救援的成立過程有立法的話也歡迎提供給我"},{"start":3951.397,"end":3970.809,"text":"再來是說舊國團是不是公益團體當然可能這個有委員一直主張它是公益團體但是縱然是公益團體也不妨礙它成為一個政黨的覆水組織政黨的覆水組織也是可以做公益這個邏輯上沒有互斥啦所以並不能用說它是公益團體它就不是政黨的覆水組織再進一步講"},{"start":3974.431,"end":3993.434,"text":"公益性的團體也不妨礙他以前在黨國威權時代從國家不當取得財產我們今天黨長會經過非常長時間的調查做了處分其實在講一件事情就是在黨國威權時代的時候救國團有拿走國家的財物現在還沒有交回來"},{"start":3994.375,"end":4017.167,"text":"我指的是這個部分,並不是指他現在的經營他現在的經營其實跟以前的某個程度有一點區分了但是我們的處分,目前處分,要求救護人員繳回來的都是當時在威權時期從國家取得的財產這個具體的證據跟事實全部在我們的處分書裡面這是非常清楚的事情,我想不要把它混在一起談"},{"start":4018.528,"end":4040.947,"text":"舊團現在要去經營活動中心、運動中心去經營各地的團委會的補習班如果它可以合法經營,我們都樂觀其成包括我們現在許可的過程裡面如果有這方面的申請,我們都會重塑、加快而且很快都讓它過了這個許可的業務到目前為止,我們都很順暢只有少數的我們認為有疑慮的才會把它剝掉"},{"start":4042.867,"end":4065.951,"text":"接下來我要講的是說舊國團一直主張現在是公益團體但是他的特權難道已經過去了嗎沒有耶在2016年的時候台北市政府是民眾黨的前主席柯文哲市長跟舊國團成立一個約定舊國團因為自知理虧因為當初建台青年活動中心那個建物啊"},{"start":4067.518,"end":4091.875,"text":"蓋的錢是國家的預算所以舊國團跟當時的台北市政府成立一個贈餘契約還用的是贈餘 但台北市政府也吞下去把要求在8年的時間在經營8年 然後他要把建物交還給台北市政府這個8年時間的最後一天是2024年的12月31號也就是一年一個月以前結果到了"},{"start":4093.871,"end":4107.097,"text":"2024年12月31號對 最後一天救護團把登記 建屋的登記移轉給台北市政府但是他到現在為止已經過了一年一個月沒有點交救護團沒有搬出去"},{"start":4108.653,"end":4121.983,"text":"換句話講舊國團賴皮違約那台北市政府在本來約定的12月31號2024 12月31號點交之後的20天才跟舊國團開了一個會說因為這個要準備以後這個地上的經營這個建台經營合作中心收回來之後經營還要花一點時間規劃所以讓舊國團暫時在那邊使用"},{"start":4134.552,"end":4160.225,"text":"這個暫時又過了一年一個月所以舊國團的特權大家以為他過去了嗎?沒有舊國團的特權還是現在進行式這個是我今天來這邊雖然對外一再說但是我有這兩個提醒第一個舊國團離開國家的管制的時候他並沒有把他的不當取得財產交回來這個我們用我們的處分他現在已經在都到法院去了第二個是舊國團的特權並沒有過去"},{"start":4162.466,"end":4187.605,"text":"他仍然占用了這個建壇金融中心而且他是自己同意要把這個建物交回來而且給他八年的通融他還是不交回來以上好 謝謝林主委的說明我想三個黨團加上林主委的說明顯然我們沒有辦法達成共識那我現在做以下的宣告我們有兩"},{"start":4189.008,"end":4217.585,"text":"我們兩個結論一保留條文第四條第三四條我們就保留二本案院會處理的時候我們廣泛討論呢由各黨團推派一位代表每位委員發言三分鐘逐條討論時我們均不再發言保留條文一各黨團版本提出先後順序進行處理我們現在我們沒辦法達成共識送院會好嗎那請大家簽字好在簽字的時候呢順便我"},{"start":4231.774,"end":4245.163,"text":"三讀之後各黨團推派一位代表我們請,好嗎?我再補進去,用口頭,好,謝謝好,那個現在跟各黨團幹部,大家在簽字的時候跟大家報告一下"},{"start":4247.205,"end":4274.75,"text":"國民黨團現在送件針對本院委員劉許廷等35位凝聚立法院組織法第32條、33條及35條條文修正草案呼籲盡快召集朝野協商這是剛才才送的我要徵求各位黨團幹部的同意同意我們就進行審理如果不同意那我們就今天朝野協商就到此為止我們就沒辦法進行處理了好"},{"start":4276.226,"end":4285.211,"text":"那麻煩請各位簽字完簽字完我們就完成今天所有的草野協商手續好嗎好謝謝我們列席的林主委各位列席的官員謝謝大家也謝謝各黨團幹部我們散會"},{"start":4324.861,"end":4326.949,"text":"好好問你們的自肥法案好好去公佈說話"}]},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[],"term":11,"id":"黨團協商-2026012950","type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商"}},{"id":"17244","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17244","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcd600d02e1221ac8716d83efede5906c8e692bdb9a1e479773c65d48c293fd2ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-29T11:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：本院委員牛煦庭等32人擬具「立法院組織法第三十二條、第三十三條及第三十五條條文修正草案」）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-29","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:30:21+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:57:00+08:00","duration":5199,"影片長度":"01:26:39","委員發言時間":"10:30:21 - 11:57:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商","id":"黨團協商-2026012848","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1986.0328437500002,"end":2014.0284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2015.1253437500002,"end":2016.7959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2018.44971875,"end":2019.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2021.1834687500002,"end":2022.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2022.93846875,"end":2024.5415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2025.5709687500002,"end":2026.2459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2026.6172187500001,"end":2030.3465937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2030.95409375,"end":2032.0509687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2032.4053437500002,"end":2034.9534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2035.4765937500001,"end":2036.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2037.4847187500002,"end":2039.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2040.3534687500003,"end":2043.2390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2043.5090937500001,"end":2043.6947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2043.7284687500003,"end":2050.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2051.3728437500004,"end":2054.2247187499997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2055.15284375,"end":2059.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2060.68784375,"end":2061.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2062.18971875,"end":2065.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2066.6784687500003,"end":2071.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2073.47909375,"end":2077.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2078.4403437500005,"end":2078.7440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2081.3259687500004,"end":2100.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2100.71534375,"end":2108.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2108.5622187500003,"end":2112.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2112.32534375,"end":2114.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2116.84784375,"end":2117.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2118.41721875,"end":2128.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2129.3184687500006,"end":2212.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2215.39784375,"end":2219.7178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2219.98784375,"end":2224.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2224.5272187500004,"end":2235.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2235.15846875,"end":2237.3015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2237.7234687500004,"end":2240.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2241.3347187500003,"end":2244.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2244.9628437500005,"end":2247.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2247.88221875,"end":2254.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2253.50159375,"end":2253.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2254.75034375,"end":2267.3897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2267.59221875,"end":2269.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2269.9715937500005,"end":2273.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2274.1903437500005,"end":2291.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2292.04409375,"end":2293.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2294.6934687500006,"end":2295.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2296.5497187500005,"end":2297.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2297.6972187500005,"end":2315.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2316.09096875,"end":2317.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2318.38596875,"end":2320.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2320.5459687500006,"end":2330.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2330.8397187500004,"end":2340.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2340.44159375,"end":2343.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2344.42409375,"end":2351.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2352.13596875,"end":2352.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2352.92909375,"end":2355.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2355.8990937500002,"end":2369.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2369.92221875,"end":2374.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2374.49534375,"end":2387.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2387.59034375,"end":2394.5428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2394.98159375,"end":2398.9978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2399.9090937500005,"end":2427.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2427.60096875,"end":2438.3672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2439.0928437500006,"end":2442.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2442.90659375,"end":2453.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2456.96346875,"end":2460.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2461.6715937500003,"end":2464.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2464.5740937500004,"end":2475.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2475.40784375,"end":2476.5047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2477.3990937500002,"end":2485.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2486.00534375,"end":2500.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2500.3828437500006,"end":2511.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2511.90846875,"end":2518.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2519.4853437500005,"end":2520.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2521.91534375,"end":2525.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2526.55596875,"end":2545.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2545.9959687500004,"end":2554.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2554.5009687500005,"end":2564.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2564.7947187500004,"end":2570.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2571.20721875,"end":2595.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2595.20346875,"end":2603.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2604.50159375,"end":2605.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2607.9440937500003,"end":2609.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2609.3953437500004,"end":2746.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2746.8253437500007,"end":2752.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2752.49534375,"end":2774.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2774.9559687500005,"end":2777.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2778.0272187500004,"end":2800.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2801.0615937500006,"end":2830.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2830.7109687500006,"end":2834.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2834.76096875,"end":2843.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2844.16034375,"end":2852.6315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2854.89284375,"end":2856.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2859.83721875,"end":2946.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2947.35096875,"end":3049.4109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3049.9678437500006,"end":3090.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3091.21034375,"end":3099.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3099.9178437500004,"end":3140.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3141.53159375,"end":3199.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3199.7840937500005,"end":3206.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3208.06971875,"end":3212.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3211.20846875,"end":3234.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3234.90096875,"end":3244.4353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3244.58721875,"end":3249.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3250.37534375,"end":3252.3497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3253.2440937500005,"end":3260.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3262.25534375,"end":3262.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3262.96409375,"end":3262.9978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3263.63909375,"end":3263.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3263.6559687500003,"end":3263.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3263.8584687500006,"end":3264.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3264.65159375,"end":3266.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3267.0309687500003,"end":3298.2159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3298.77284375,"end":3302.7722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3302.9578437500004,"end":3341.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3341.63534375,"end":3364.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3367.0997187500006,"end":3373.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3373.02284375,"end":3377.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3376.53284375,"end":3379.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3377.96721875,"end":3379.0978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3379.30034375,"end":3379.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3379.3847187500005,"end":3401.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3380.0597187500007,"end":3380.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3402.38534375,"end":3403.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3404.24159375,"end":3411.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3412.5440937500007,"end":3420.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3421.2009687500004,"end":3421.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3422.31471875,"end":3424.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3425.09909375,"end":3430.0097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3430.46534375,"end":3435.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3435.64596875,"end":3450.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3451.2215937500005,"end":3454.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3455.3222187500005,"end":3455.8790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3456.08159375,"end":3456.8409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3457.58346875,"end":3460.2159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3460.5703437500006,"end":3462.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3463.6415937500005,"end":3466.2403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3466.7634687500004,"end":3473.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3474.10409375,"end":3491.3165937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3491.9072187500005,"end":3494.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3494.64096875,"end":3498.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3498.6065937500007,"end":3501.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3501.4415937500007,"end":3502.5047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3503.02784375,"end":3503.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3503.80409375,"end":3505.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3505.9978437500004,"end":3506.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3507.06096875,"end":3507.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3508.0565937500005,"end":3509.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3510.0478437500005,"end":3513.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3514.18221875,"end":3515.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3515.4140937500006,"end":3519.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3520.32471875,"end":3521.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3521.65784375,"end":3525.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3525.92721875,"end":3529.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3529.5553437500002,"end":3535.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3536.5753437500007,"end":3537.4190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3539.30909375,"end":3540.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3541.9415937500007,"end":3542.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3545.33346875,"end":3547.8984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3550.5309687500003,"end":3551.1553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3551.1553437500006,"end":3551.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3551.17221875,"end":3551.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3551.29034375,"end":3551.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3551.3240937500004,"end":3551.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3551.5097187500005,"end":3551.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3551.5603437500004,"end":3579.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3583.5047187500004,"end":3587.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3587.57159375,"end":3588.5840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3589.0059687500006,"end":3589.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3590.6765937500004,"end":3606.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3607.34909375,"end":3630.2653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3630.78846875,"end":3648.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3649.30034375,"end":3662.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3662.4459687500002,"end":3677.3634687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3677.6503437500005,"end":3703.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3703.84034375,"end":3715.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3715.88909375,"end":3716.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3718.84221875,"end":3722.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3722.45346875,"end":3750.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3750.1959687500002,"end":3752.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3753.1153437500006,"end":3760.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3761.63721875,"end":3769.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3772.5890937500008,"end":3772.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3772.9772187500002,"end":3773.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3774.1922187500004,"end":3786.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3786.4772187500002,"end":3787.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3788.33346875,"end":3793.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3795.01596875,"end":3795.4040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3795.87659375,"end":3803.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3805.93409375,"end":3817.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3818.16846875,"end":3822.8259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3823.7540937500007,"end":3823.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3823.77096875,"end":3829.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3840.8653437500006,"end":3847.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3847.3790937500007,"end":3855.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3855.47909375,"end":3860.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3861.01409375,"end":3864.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3864.4903437500006,"end":3869.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3869.6203437500008,"end":3872.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3872.64096875,"end":3877.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3878.00721875,"end":3889.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3889.9040937500004,"end":3896.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3897.24471875,"end":3899.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3899.64096875,"end":3900.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3900.6365937500004,"end":3904.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3905.91846875,"end":3908.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3909.3778437500005,"end":3911.7234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3911.9765937500006,"end":3913.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3913.6134687500007,"end":3918.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3918.69284375,"end":3919.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3920.19471875,"end":3928.8347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3931.51784375,"end":3931.8047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3932.5303437500006,"end":3933.4753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3934.6397187500006,"end":3937.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3938.33534375,"end":3939.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3940.02284375,"end":3945.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3945.4903437500006,"end":3945.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3945.86159375,"end":3945.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3949.1690937500007,"end":3952.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3950.5528437500006,"end":3950.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3952.7803437500006,"end":3956.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3957.1003437500003,"end":3959.5303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3957.9609687500006,"end":3961.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3960.1209687500004,"end":3986.5978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3986.1590937500005,"end":3986.5303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3989.07846875,"end":3989.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3990.83346875,"end":3992.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3993.2297187500008,"end":4007.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4007.82659375,"end":4081.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4081.53659375,"end":4104.503468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4104.638468749999,"end":4169.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4169.96159375,"end":4171.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4173.0497187500005,"end":4188.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4189.165343750001,"end":4193.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4194.37971875,"end":4194.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4195.071593750001,"end":4198.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4198.75034375,"end":4204.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4204.42034375,"end":4223.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4224.231593750001,"end":4245.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4246.42221875,"end":4252.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4252.868468750001,"end":4256.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4256.44596875,"end":4257.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4258.08284375,"end":4281.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4282.97346875,"end":4284.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4285.28534375,"end":4295.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4296.085343750001,"end":4297.300343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4297.99221875,"end":4298.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4299.7303437499995,"end":4309.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4310.057843750001,"end":4311.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4311.779093749999,"end":4312.909718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4313.44971875,"end":4315.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4315.812218749999,"end":4318.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4318.866593750001,"end":4319.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4320.35159375,"end":4327.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4328.53596875,"end":4329.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4329.734093749999,"end":4336.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4336.247843749999,"end":4343.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4343.87534375,"end":4357.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4359.19784375,"end":4366.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4368.732218749999,"end":4370.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4371.685343749999,"end":4453.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4454.1365937499995,"end":4472.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4475.16284375,"end":4478.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4478.942843750001,"end":4480.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4480.866593750001,"end":4488.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4489.32096875,"end":4520.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4520.59034375,"end":4567.722218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4568.16096875,"end":4569.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4569.89909375,"end":4608.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4610.517218749999,"end":4611.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4611.86721875,"end":4657.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4657.9022187499995,"end":4662.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4662.25596875,"end":4719.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4720.356593750001,"end":4721.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4723.37721875,"end":4777.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4779.53721875,"end":4780.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4780.9715937500005,"end":4781.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4781.62971875,"end":4781.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4781.69721875,"end":4781.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4781.73096875,"end":4792.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4793.982218749999,"end":4794.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4795.18034375,"end":4797.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4795.9228437500005,"end":4799.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4799.9559687500005,"end":4800.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4800.85034375,"end":4812.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4812.71346875,"end":4815.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4815.464093750001,"end":4815.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4815.514718750001,"end":4819.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4820.30721875,"end":4820.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4820.35784375,"end":4825.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4825.97721875,"end":4827.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4827.00659375,"end":4827.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4827.47909375,"end":4836.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4830.4490937499995,"end":4830.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4831.47846875,"end":4832.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4834.22909375,"end":4834.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4836.692843750001,"end":4841.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4841.282843749999,"end":4844.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4844.151593750001,"end":4855.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4844.16846875,"end":4845.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4847.374718749999,"end":4847.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4855.37346875,"end":4883.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4881.29346875,"end":4888.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4886.2040937500005,"end":4886.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4889.005343750001,"end":4946.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4891.114718750001,"end":4893.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4894.0340937500005,"end":4894.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4894.1522187499995,"end":4894.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4948.169093750001,"end":4951.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4953.450968749999,"end":4953.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4954.24409375,"end":4957.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4959.57659375,"end":4959.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4959.6103437500005,"end":4965.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4961.55096875,"end":4963.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4966.866593750001,"end":5004.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5005.00409375,"end":5069.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5071.997843749999,"end":5072.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5072.95971875,"end":5074.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5074.03971875,"end":5113.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5114.624093750001,"end":5170.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5168.53971875,"end":5170.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5170.075343750001,"end":5170.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5170.66596875,"end":5170.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5170.682843750001,"end":5170.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5171.2059687500005,"end":5171.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5171.22284375,"end":5171.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5171.25659375,"end":5173.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5172.72471875,"end":5172.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5173.41659375,"end":5190.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5192.36721875,"end":5211.317843750001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1986.544,"end":2013.535,"text":"各位委員好我們今天就現在開始進行協商會議那麼本日所協商的條文內容主要是由委員牛許廷等35人所拟據的立法院組織法第32條33條及第35條的條文修正草案當然在協商進行之前我先介紹到場的委員以及機關代表首先先介紹牛許廷委員"},{"start":2015.185,"end":2024.126,"text":"然後陳昭志委員周瑞璇委員林月琴委員還有沈伯陽委員"},{"start":2025.612,"end":2036.098,"text":"那麼到場的機關代表有立法院的人事處處長黃處長主計處的處長許金江許處長總務處的廖炯志處長還有權需部的法規司的專門委員蕭專委那麼勞動部的勞動條件及就業平等司的專委李怡萱勞動關係司的專門委員劉振彥"},{"start":2055.239,"end":2077.045,"text":"人事行政總署的主編 人力處的專門委員 廖政文給予福利處的專門委員 林志玉行政院主計總署的公務預算處專門委員 黃子涵內部審核研究小組的檢驗市場 王立倩"},{"start":2081.383,"end":2106.274,"text":"那麼我們現在就進行協商了那麼本案是經過114年12月26日本院第11屆第4會期第15次院會決定進付二讀並且由國民黨黨團負責召集協商那麼協商時就請參閱進付二讀提案的關係文書與會委員如果有修正動議或機關有建議內容的話就請提出書面印發現場進行討論"},{"start":2108.695,"end":2133.944,"text":"那麼首先我們就先請提案委員牛許廷牛委員先進行說明謝謝主席各黨團的代表好這個大家早安今天討論立法院組織法32條的修正案那當然這個跟立法院助理的補助跟相關的一些費用跟待遇的提升是有關係的"},{"start":2134.924,"end":2162.205,"text":"那麼這段時間當然很多爭議也有很多人提出了各式各樣的質疑但是我跟大家報告一下會排在這麼晚的時間內協商倒不是有什麼奇怪的陰謀請大家可以放心而是這個法案在修正的過程中我們總要跟工會跟立法院雙邊都要保持對話去找到一個合理的方案因此今天也提出了修正動議我想應該已經交給交在大家的手上希望今天大家以修正動議的這個內容來做核心的討論"},{"start":2163.226,"end":2183.565,"text":"那我跟大家報告一下我自己在內政委員會工作我們在第一會期的時候其實就已經通過了民意代表知己條例的修正幫我們的縣市議員的助理大幅的提升了待遇也幫里長等等的提升了工作的獎金我想這都是基層的政治工作者我覺得沒有什麼道理讓國會助理也在這一波裡面是被遺忘掉的"},{"start":2184.125,"end":2212.257,"text":"換言之我從一開始提這個法案的初衷就是希望增加助理的待遇所以你可以看到大部分修正的內容其實都是在增加包含這個助理的這個助理費的補助費用包含增加了資深加給這個專業加給這個進修補助以及生活津貼等等相關的一些條件所以我希望今天在討論的過程之中大家可以針對助理待遇增加的幅度來做合理跟理性的討論最好可以達成三黨的共識以上謝謝"},{"start":2215.441,"end":2242.294,"text":"好 謝謝 那麼接下來我們就請出席的各黨團代表表示意見那麼我們原則上採取的是各黨團輪流發言那就是以現在的狀況我想就是原則上每位委員先以五分鐘的發言時間為準然後我們到時候再來做一些彈性的安排那首先先請鍾瑞雄委員發言謝謝 謝謝主席我也不一定要過分精其實在議會 這個助理"},{"start":2245.912,"end":2272.972,"text":"這個薪資的一個增加在上一屆還是你們國民黨的議員來催溫我們就把它給覺得很有道理讓助理的薪水薪資福利來做一個提升其實各黨團我相信都不會有意見為什麼國民黨提出這個法案在連國民黨的助理裡面都會炸鍋"},{"start":2274.246,"end":2274.566,"text":"其實你也有提到說把整個"},{"start":2296.698,"end":2314.984,"text":"立法院國會助理的部分你說按每一個立法委員每年稅費五倍的公費助理的工資跟以勞動法令規定由雇主負擔的相關費用然後公費助理的專業家籍 資深 還有健康 福利"},{"start":2316.164,"end":2339.446,"text":"明確化這個是好事但是這個好事裡面你們去把它看的就是說你立法院每年應以公務預算編列為立法委員的補助費用就是這個本來你們會被受到質疑的地方就是到底會不會有儲罪化的問題本來是國家的水庫"},{"start":2340.527,"end":2368.03,"text":"那到最後如果說變成立法委員的水庫就會有這個問題如果單純要來增加國會助理的福利還有他的薪資我相信各黨團都不會有意見啦但是如果又涉及到是不是會有把他給除罪化這樣的一個問題的話可能才是核心啦這個才是核心如果沒有這個問題我全部都要你支持"},{"start":2369.98,"end":2384.03,"text":"我全部都要支持那如果要混水摸魚因為 你看嘛各政黨都會碰到如果有民意代表去有助理費 佔領助理費的問題的時候那是社會划然啦那是社會划然沒有人有辦法接受啊 我也知道 政敵嘛就是有時啊 有一些比較灰暗的啊 有一些比較黑黑臭臭的人多了 讓我們拜託一下 東團啊 不過沙村還不行啊不然一 紐委員你的形象你還要去站這個案"},{"start":2399.963,"end":2421.781,"text":"因為要給大家來講的清楚沒有關係就講清楚在立法院裡面大家都講清楚要解決什麼如果要解決國會助理讓他的待遇讓他的福利做提升的這個我告訴各位民進黨黨團絕對不會有任何的意見不會有任何的意見但是如果是要夾帶要讓法律的解釋又不清又不能講清楚我相信劉偉剛你是也講嘛這個前面爭議很大嘛這時候爭議很大的原因是到底會不會"},{"start":2427.834,"end":2452.171,"text":"涉及到這個本來在訴訟系數當中的官司會不會幫有人解套或者說這個要把整個這個這個詐領助理費這個部分把它給除罪化沒有這些疑慮的話講清楚我相信核心問題講清楚以後大家都沒有問題啦所以我們就針對核心的問題先把它給講清楚我先簡單這樣講啦好不好"},{"start":2457.643,"end":2475.864,"text":"接下來看陳昭志委員我想過去就是組織法裡面其實有一些對助理費的規範是不夠明確了當然那不夠明確的時候的確是賦予這個委員高度的職權運作跟人事任用自由等等那今天剛剛"},{"start":2478.006,"end":2499.786,"text":"剛剛莊委您提到其實不分黨派 貴黨也都發生了這些爭議人數也都不在少數我想最重要是法院對於助理費的運用跟定義也有非常奇異的看法法院本身所以我們覺得對於助理費的定義清楚不再模糊化不是為什麼目的至少我們把它定義清楚"},{"start":2501.068,"end":2524.207,"text":"這個法制化的方向是一定要做因為這些錢本來都是國庫的支出實質上就是讓整個立法委員的工作上的一些輔助的一些相關的費用跟人力所以我想民進黨應該不會反對法制化吧不要說他背後什麼目的法制化是"},{"start":2527.158,"end":2541.61,"text":"這個就是怎麼解釋嘛第一個我們就支持這個反智化嘛那第二個就是我想大家都會同意嘛本來助理嘛沒有助理怎麼成全一個好的立委助理的這個福利跟保障這是一定要做到的該助理的錢就要給助理就是這樣"},{"start":2546.513,"end":2555.797,"text":"那基本上我個人的決定 現前的做法包括就是這個整個費用助理的費用是由立法院代理然後就是匯到這個助理的這個帳戶我個人覺得這個是很清楚但是劉委員他提起要增加立委的福利助理的福利這也是一定要做因為根據統計好幾年前就已經"},{"start":2571.443,"end":2596.244,"text":"四年內年資的平均的一般立委的任期都將近六成的那個都換過了表示說這個環境並不是有幫助於對政治有熱忱的年輕人願意長期留在這裡但是如果能夠人才能夠久任長任我想說這個對助理整個的工作品質整個立院的表現對整個立法院未來留住人才都是非常正面的"},{"start":2596.885,"end":2603.764,"text":"所以法治化一定要清楚精神就是要保障到助理跟福利第三就是该给助理的不能少谢谢"},{"start":2607.927,"end":2626.763,"text":"好 請您委員發言好 謝謝主席這個也謝謝民進黨黨團針對這個助理待遇的提升都是表示支持那就沒有背離我們這個提法案的初衷我剛剛跟莊瑞雄委員在我回答一下莊瑞雄委員的問題我剛剛講說這個輿論化然這個爭議很大是因為我本人就是反對大水庫理論的"},{"start":2627.423,"end":2655.784,"text":"就是因為我們黨內有很多不同的意見所以後來才會有新的版本出來這個也希望在這個場合跟大家講清楚說明白所以在我們的版本裡面基本上是一樣是由立法院直接把這些不管有沒有這些家籍等等這些通通都是由立法院直接匯到助理的戶頭這一段時間有很多人在那邊解釋說這個版本還是借私還魂啦還是什麼本職除罪啦還是會把錢撥到立委的戶頭通通不會因為在法條裡面我們就清楚序名了"},{"start":2656.404,"end":2683.273,"text":"這些相關的補助費用都會由立法院直接匯到助理的戶頭所以我希望這樣子的一個以而傳而或者是不實的資訊可以到此為止那我要回答一下剛剛大家講說這個談把它寫成所謂的補助費用會不會造成除罪化的問題我手邊有兩個例子第一個我手上這一本是我們行政院主計總處的總預算編制作業手冊其中第134頁有提到這個立法院在民意代表待遇的時候他有寫"},{"start":2683.993,"end":2708.541,"text":"民意代表待遇它雖然編在人事費裡面但是它有寫凡民意代表之稅費、公費、研究費及依法聘用之助理人員待遇補助等組織嘛所以它當然在法律性質上它本來就是補助性質這是其一其二我也要跟大家報告在我們當初修正的民意代表知己條例裡面當初可以順利通過很大的原因是因為有行政院院板"},{"start":2709.261,"end":2725.445,"text":"所以我現在就拿行政院院版的草案來跟大家報告行政院院版的草案在第六條裡面的修正他就寫了直轄市議會縣市議會得編列議員助理補助費補助各議員聘用助理"},{"start":2725.845,"end":2745.835,"text":"而且他在立法說明裡面還寫為補助議員聘僱專職助理協助履行議員職權原定名各議會編列議員助理補助費補助各議員聘用助理又為彰顯相關費用俗補助性質刪除公費二次"},{"start":2747.049,"end":2771.561,"text":"這是行政院提出來的明代知己條例的修正案大家最後也通過因為大家覺得這不是問題大家當初在討論的重點是我們到底要幫議員的助理加多少薪水可是這裡面既然都這麼明目張膽還把公費兩個字刪除按照我們民進黨或者是這一段時間社會大眾的質疑難道行政院是帶頭幫詐領議員助理費的議員除罪嗎"},{"start":2775.863,"end":2792.551,"text":"應該不是這樣吧對不對我覺得我們就講就法論法我們講道理嘛第二我再補充一下順著這個脈絡往下說這個明代知己條例已經上路了請問是不是上路之後就沒有任何的議員乍領助理費被起訴被判刑"},{"start":2793.191,"end":2814.645,"text":"好像也不是吧你如果是非法的詐領即便他寫了這個是補助費用他還是被判刑還是被起訴吧從這個法案上路之後還有若干的議員我就不點名了但是他們都還是有涉入官司換言之你去提這一段把補助性質列明跟他是不是幫什麼除罪話沒有絕對必然的關係甚至是沒有關係的"},{"start":2815.586,"end":2829.789,"text":"你如果真的是搞人頭搞詐領這些東西你該被判刑還是會被判刑所以我覺得這件事情我就用在這個場合我們很公開很清楚的用這個例子來跟大家報告如果大家就講說這個法案是為了除罪而修我真的是覺得有一點點多慮了"},{"start":2830.785,"end":2852.614,"text":"如果是這樣那難道行政院帶頭處罪嗎我覺得我不會這樣子看啦我覺得這個包含當初民代知己條例的修正重點跟我今天提立法院組織法修正的重點都是一樣的我們就好好的幫基層工作人員加薪吧好不好我們希望待會的討論可以慢慢慢慢往這些待遇是否合理會不會增加太多財務負擔我們要怎麼樣求取平衡點來做協商以上 謝謝好 接下來請沈博洋委員發言"},{"start":2868.068,"end":2884.983,"text":"我先講一下一個程序上我們一定要解決的問題就是說剛剛林委員也有提到可能還是需要試算對於立法院來講現在這樣的一個財務負擔到底應該是多少我覺得這應該蠻重要的這個可能等一下看能不能請立法院回答一下"},{"start":2885.663,"end":2900.423,"text":"那這是第一個啦這比較程序啦但這個總是要解決因為畢竟這就是一個增加支出的那就像我們剛剛莊委員講的如果今天就是單純的是讓這一個助理的家籍民文化又或者說他的福利民文化"},{"start":2901.144,"end":2921.619,"text":"這大概不會有人有意見 這個絕對是好事所以真點還是因為就像剛剛牛委員講的這到底會不會是一個除罪化的規定那我先這樣講就是說剛剛有講到比如說我們的預算的科目怎麼訂定又或者說包含這個我們的當時行政院版對於這一個議員的部分怎麼規定"},{"start":2922.68,"end":2945.813,"text":"你這一個規定有沒有補助 補助費這三個字其實跟法律關係是兩件事情這是兩件事所以我們來看一下就是說現在這一個條文現在這個條文它的關鍵有幾個第一個就是在這一個應該是第四項我先看原來的先不要看修正動議我們先按照原本的來看"},{"start":2947.581,"end":2967.422,"text":"先從原來 因為修正動議待會再繼續討論因為這個應該是一樣的所謂的補助費用是由立法院代理立法委員做給付這個在修法理由就有特別寫到因為這個之前都有爭議公費助理是立法委員自行聘用等等之類的用語"},{"start":2968.723,"end":2991.593,"text":"所以現在的比較關鍵是我們要怎麼去看待這個法律的定性其實它跟那個名稱並沒有直接的關係你的名稱不會影響到法院今天認定這個立委跟這一個助理之間的法律定性我相信這一個主席也非常的清楚所以過往我們的法律剛剛有講到就是說這個法律目前在議員的部分大部分都是認為這個是一個詐領"},{"start":2993.194,"end":3019.593,"text":"因為無論如何不管你今天這個費用是屬於他本人還是不屬於他本人他本來就是屬於要時報時銷嘛所以他要時報時銷你今天只要比如說這個人根本就不是你助理他是人頭所以這個就你在交出這一個名單的時候呢就有使公務員登載不實的問題那我們的法院就是用這個使公務員登載不實再去連結到他有這個詐領所以進入到貪污自罪條例其實認定都是這樣子"},{"start":3020.353,"end":3049.163,"text":"那剛剛這個陳委員也有提到就是說現在的這個法律這個認定可能會有點不穩定其實法律的認定從以前到現在一直都認為這是貪污一直都認為是詐淩但是在一個案子認為不是那就是高雄案的案子那高雄案的案子最主要為什麼會有這樣的一個定性的認定的改變是因為立法院回覆給我們的高等法院回覆說他們認為這一個立委助理的法律定性他的定義跟我們之前跟法院認定都不一樣"},{"start":3050.043,"end":3069.336,"text":"那法院这时候有两个选择第一个选择就是他遵照过往法律所有的认定方式认为这还是有诈领助理费另外一个就是说既然立法院这样讲那我听立法院的好了所以就是因为这一个案子立法院有一个不同的意见而那个法官遵从了立法院的意见所以最后做出了一个不同的认定"},{"start":3070.196,"end":3099.176,"text":"所以這整件事情我們不一定要具體的文字但其實重點是法律定性那我覺得如果今天修法理由還有修正條文裡面其實對於這個的法律定性到底清不清楚法官會怎麼解讀我覺得這個是這其實是一回事這其實我們說真的我們沒有辦法干預法官的解讀但如果我們可以明文的直接告訴大家就是說有義領的因為這個在修正動議就有提到如果有義領又或者說有人頭又或者有回捐有這些方式"},{"start":3100.076,"end":3126.421,"text":"直接還是回歸使公務員擔擔不實跟回歸貪污自罪管理條例我覺得這樣最簡單因為這樣就可以沒有爭議了就是說你在法條就已經告訴大家這個詐領就還是叫做詐領這個貪污還是就叫做貪污然後前面就是單純增加福利那這樣會變得很簡單那這個要怎麼做到呢除了增加一些文資之外最主要我覺得有幾個地方第一個就是時報時銷這件事情到底要落實到什麼程度"},{"start":3126.801,"end":3140.774,"text":"因為你今天是歸屬於立法委員自己可以處分的跟你今天要跟立法院要拿的時候那個時報時銷的那一個方式是不一樣我看到修正動議有提到比如說像那個專業加息它是給立法委員認定嘛"},{"start":3141.604,"end":3162.65,"text":"是給立法委員認定那這個法律定性其實就是在立法委員的身上我覺得這個有點危險然後再來就是因為在修正動議的第四頁這一邊有提到議領或應返還專業家籍那這個議領就是指只有指專業家籍的部分或獎金的部分的議領還是說像我們講的人頭等等之類的那個也都算議領"},{"start":3163.75,"end":3174.372,"text":"這個也要定性因為這個都定性完了之後最後才可以去加說如果涉及這方面的回捐等等之類的都還是貪污之罪管理條例的規範那這樣就超級明確了我們就直接讓這個國人知道說我們這個單純是福利我們並沒有想要把什麼事情處罪化所以我覺得整個針點大概是在這方面那內部的就剛剛講的我覺得"},{"start":3186.255,"end":3205.245,"text":"立法院這邊的試算大概是如何因為有五倍跟六倍嘛我剛辦公室是五倍黨團是六倍嘛對不對就是說這個金額大概多少立法院是否這個如果專業加息是算在裡面還是不算在裡面然後到最後這個金額大概多少到最後可能也請立法院幫忙試算一下所以我先翻譯到這邊不好意思超過一點時間謝謝"},{"start":3208.706,"end":3234.178,"text":"接下來看是請陳昭志委員發言謝謝主席 我再補充幾句第一個我們今天在做法制化的事情是不要把法制化汙名化因為法制化代表一個很明確那剛剛審委也提到就是說我之前先提說因為法官也認為有一些疑慮他要再做一個確認那這個立法院是被動他是被動回復就是法官自己"},{"start":3235.138,"end":3259.079,"text":"讀了這個相關的條文他認為可能是有不足或他需要再確認所以立法院就是被動的做了降費我想這個差異是非常大的並不是立院主動要去做任何的解釋那反正這些費用就是用在就是在你的執行業務工費共用我想這基本上這個原則就是如此我想說我就是在表達到這裡為止謝謝"},{"start":3262.341,"end":3284.557,"text":"好 接下来牛委员好 谢谢主席这个刚刚讲了非常多啦但是我刚刚讲的本质上的东西都还是我们希望标准是其一的这个其实大概就是这样子那刚刚有讲了就是说议领的部分这我说明一下因为我们后面提的有关于专业家籍跟资深家籍等等它是有硬性条件的嘛那换言之就只有硬性条件有没有符合嘛"},{"start":3285.017,"end":3297.714,"text":"那這個數額也是明確的所以用這個地方相關修正不過剛剛沈委員提到這個有關於各式各樣形態的所謂的乍領它其實是在內包約定薪資裡面然後後面用奇怪的方式做手腳"},{"start":3298.874,"end":3318.488,"text":"那我覺得你在這地方你用法條我覺得不見得能夠杜絕這樣的事情吧所以我是之所以去寫講的議領在法條裡面基本上是針對是針對專業家級跟資深家級等等有硬性條件的部分那當初講說為什麼要經過立法委員是我們跟立法院商量的一個結果那我跟省委員報告一下因為基本上不管是在"},{"start":3319.469,"end":3336.541,"text":"議會的時代我做過市議員嘛然後現在在立法委員基本上都是你立法委員要簽嘛就是我要給這個助理多少的薪水然後基本上簽了然後他們就採認嘛那同樣就是這個證書你總是立法委員要看一下嘛表示是為真了嘛然後有一個兩邊查核的這樣一個結果這樣會比較單純好 這我跟這個委員回報一下那另外"},{"start":3342.184,"end":3364.182,"text":"剛剛講的問題都還是沒有解答到我剛剛拋出的問題就是說如果大家認為這個法案是為了幫特定人士處罪的話那明代知己條例要怎麼說呢我就講了嘛這個修完沒有幫人家處罪的問題啦如果你真的有詐領人頭等等的狀況該判的還是會判而法院的認證在過去來講它是有不同見解那也是沒辦法但是這不是我們修法就可以干涉的事情啦以上"},{"start":3368.284,"end":3373.491,"text":"因為剛剛省委員有說希望請機關代表可以先回應是不是他講完我們再講一下讓他們聚焦會更好我就講過了這個案子"},{"start":3382.783,"end":3395.591,"text":"會引起社會嘩然大家不要在這個地方好像過去就雲淡風輕了不然這種如果要保障國會助理提升他們的待遇的我們不用坐這麼多人在這裡啦這個案子為什麼會這樣子就去年你們淨富二讀嘛就這麼簡單嘛就這樣來的嘛你們現在是在藉機在洗白嘛藉機在為前面說為了你這個版本我也認為是一個懺悔的版本很好啊"},{"start":3412.608,"end":3431.887,"text":"就已經轉向了嘛就這麼簡單嘛政治大家就是講白話嘛你們問題就是要除罪話嘛那你現在如果說把它給制度化很好我認為是一件好事但是我剛剛就說你這個版本我都要給你比讚啊但有一個地方我就比較有要講清楚的地方就是說原來這個你在那個"},{"start":3435.991,"end":3450.495,"text":"在那個第二項的部分是把它定性清楚就是說立法院因每年以公務預算編列以下立法委員的補助費用你把它定性就是立法委員的補助的一個費用就是說本來這個如果沒有說得清楚之後大家就開始揮手揮手說這到底是立委的到時候責任的人就跟他說沒有的 那是我的"},{"start":3463.7,"end":3487.128,"text":"那是我的 這沒有講清楚所以我再講清楚我相信坐在這邊的委員大家的想法都對於你國民黨當初提出的案子大家是反對的不然你們不用再提出個修正案嘛這是在騙你 不是在騙你你們前面的案子就是不是 你們前面在處理什麼那個叫做妖魔鬼怪法案就這麼簡單這個現在是一個懺悔的法案我覺得也很好"},{"start":3491.963,"end":3517.395,"text":"大家一起來促成我看不分洞牌的助理大家一定會很高興嘛就像程召之為你講的法治化是 法治化我都願意但是如果要渾水摸魚我相信我相信都在做高台而已啦做高台而已這個案子我是一直以來我都很一致的啊就不像國民黨都這樣而已民眾黨都這樣而已特黨也都這種態度"},{"start":3520.39,"end":3534.833,"text":"但問題是說 發生那種事情社會上哪有人會去贊成的所以這就難說在這裡要給人家夾帶進去尤其是在這裡政府惡毒連討論這個連委員會討論都沒討論的不要忘記了我們立法院是這樣審法案的嗎以上好 那我們現在是不是可以先請那個立法"},{"start":3552.156,"end":3578.685,"text":"剛剛其實鋪碼也有提到就是這個金額的部分因為現在劉委員你的版本是寫五倍六倍可是你其實並沒有說是上限還是什麼樣所以拜託等一下總務處說明的時候我覺得也讓國人清楚的知道假設這個我們看起來是疑似要漂白的版本那最後到委員身上或者是到黨團辦公室它的費用會是多少所以拜託實際金額剛剛沈博洋問的就是這個因為你的部分其實沒有寫清楚五倍上限到底是五倍六倍是天花板還是怎麼樣"},{"start":3583.57,"end":3606.355,"text":"好 那林月琴委員有需要今天再發言嗎我想前面都已經在講因為我覺得從陳昱臻版本引起大家討論之後像原本還有許智傑我自己也有版本可是我不知道在擠什麼就是說為什麼我們不能在委員會好好討論然後林月琴委員要"},{"start":3607.435,"end":3630.098,"text":"抽出來然後進付二讀當然你自己稱說你這是最完整版本可是為什麼既然是最完整那就最值得討論那為什麼事實上是選擇進付二讀完全不給大家來做討論好的版本要讓大家好好欣賞好好討論好好研究一下你的版本到底有多完整如果打算今天過水明天宴會就要強行通過的話那到底是來幫助"},{"start":3630.839,"end":3648.594,"text":"我們的助理嗎雖然剛剛一直在講說你這個事實上是沒有什麼事實上是為了我們的助理增加所有的福利可是先等一下我想也要解釋一件事情如果一律定性為立法委員補助費用"},{"start":3649.375,"end":3676.21,"text":"那白話文就是說這些錢是立法委員自行運用的錢就是愛怎麼用就怎麼用這個幾個字眼前面過去沒有的時候立法院都可以解釋高雄案的案子這樣做解釋的時候這次的修法我們還是會想到底福利措施做些什麼更重要的應該事實上是監督機制而不是說你先這個國家不管是不是統籌運用助理費都有明確的監督跟"},{"start":3677.771,"end":3703.013,"text":"聘用制度的話當然沒有問題如果你參考的事實上是歐美日韓的助理費制度那他們事實上是有一些監督機制的可是我今天沒有看到說到底有哪些監督機制如果你的寫法又寫說立法委員的補助費用如果未來再針對有爭議在法院判決的時候是不是會把這個認為就是補助費用所以要怎麼用就怎麼用就不會是"},{"start":3704.475,"end":3716.855,"text":"當委員在用的時候有沒有去充分照顧到我們的助理我覺得這個反而是我有些疑慮的所以希望等一下也是一併能夠做說明以上好 那接下來我們就"},{"start":3719.465,"end":3734.794,"text":"對就先請那個立法院這裡做說明我最後一題就好錢一樣是跟錢有關因為那個麻煩你們看一下年委員版本喔就是那個你在立法說明或者是你在那個版本裡面有寫到第四頁你的修正動議第四頁你有提到說有議領或"},{"start":3736.585,"end":3759.972,"text":"應返還專業家籍及年終工作獎金之情形者那其實我不確定立法院這邊你們有沒有看了劉委員的版本這個議領值的到底是因為剛剛劉委員其實還是沒有回答我比較好奇你們的法律見解會怎麼讀到底是指專業家籍含不含助理費的議領我覺得這才是關鍵如果你把助理費的議領也算進來那就會有問就到底那個問題就會出來了那個點就出來了 對吧"},{"start":3761.667,"end":3768.648,"text":"這個議領指的是專業家級的議領還是助理費的議領請你們這邊回答我想就先請那個立法院先說明好了就是針對這次的修法它可能會增加的預算然後以及就是剛剛有提到涉及到就是每一個立法委員每年的稅費"},{"start":3788.376,"end":3815.508,"text":"的增加那是涵蓋所有的包含後面這些佳績還是他是另外的主席跟各位委員報告人事處報告那有關那個劉委員提案這個修正動議如果以低一點以低一點的按每一個委員的稅費的5倍那我們在委員跟黨團這一部分在增加的經費一年就會增加了1億465萬"},{"start":3818.566,"end":3829.011,"text":"對 委員加黨團的部分那黨團我們是用四個黨團來計算我想處長請你坐到前面你這樣比較方便然後而且用我們的麥克風會比較清楚 好嗎"},{"start":3840.845,"end":3860.342,"text":"因為現在牛委員的修正動議跟提案他是按每一立法委員每年稅費的五倍那黨團那邊也是依照這邊黨團那邊是六倍所以我們兩個合計把它計算起來委員跟黨團的部分他一年就會增加了一億四百六十五萬多"},{"start":3861.082,"end":3877.375,"text":"那有關專業加擠這一部分因為是涉及到證書跟學歷那因為每一個委員他聘用的那個公費助理我們不知道他需要的所需要的那個人才是什麼所以我們只能用最寬估的"},{"start":3878.095,"end":3904.729,"text":"方式來寬估那我們是用113位委員14位助理4個黨團16位助理那我們先採計律師大概就是一萬五嘛那碩士學歷三千用一萬八來計算那就要三億五千多萬那接下來資深家企我們就要一起因為資深家企也是都有增加的部分那資深家企我們是用"},{"start":3905.973,"end":3927.642,"text":"也是113人的14位然後黨團4個16位但是因為我們是用預算原額的半數因為我們真的也不知道我們用預算原額的半數然後這樣下去計算然後以8年以上未滿12年來計算它的資深佳績那大概就會增加7900多萬對 都是"},{"start":3934.83,"end":3944.821,"text":"對那當然後面還有年終工作獎金對在職進修然後還有那個結婚補助生育補助商帳補助跟撫慰金部分我請教那個處長現在因為年終工作獎金跟這個健康檢查這些費用是本來就有的了"},{"start":3957.39,"end":3986.304,"text":"年终工作奖金本来就是现行制度就有的因为年终工作奖金新的修正动议年终工作奖金部分它又把专业家企跟资深家企要纳进来所以它会更多因为我们现在是用一定就是现在每个月大概40几万来计算年终工作奖金可是修正这个提案版本它必须再加计资深家企跟专业家企所以它的年终奖金就会再提高是"},{"start":3992.275,"end":4013.09,"text":"這個我一併回答一下剛剛幾位委員的一些問題啊第一個剛剛林月琴委員有講這個歐美日韓的一些制度等等啦那每一個國家都有不同的制度我也不瞞各位說啦如果真的要把它轉型成比如說像日本韓國的這種辦公準公務員的附鎖關制度我也是有版本但你也知道這修正一個版本基本上曠日廢死啦"},{"start":4013.59,"end":4028.664,"text":"那大家 這個立法院是團體生活我想大家也不會反對這件事情所以眼下能夠做可以立刻讓它有進展的其實是單一條文的修正而且針對助理的待遇可以具體的提升如果你提一整個版本然後大家又喋喋不休因為事實上過去"},{"start":4029.945,"end":4045.661,"text":"幾屆民進黨委員也有提過版本但最後即便是民進黨多數他也沒有辦法順利過關嘛所以我想你要立個新法到最後誠意很高但他沒有辦法落地我個人是沒有採取這樣子的一個決定我反而覺得務實的趕快可以調整額度可以不用那麼高大家都可以商量著來"},{"start":4046.241,"end":4063.8,"text":"你有一些財政負擔我們都可以協調但是我的意思是說總要往前邁進這一步這是我在個人做的選擇這我跟你們報告一下第二個有關議領的部分剛剛很多委員去提到說你資深家級專業家級可能有議領的部分是因為那個很單純嘛比如說一個人他有律師證書就理論上你就要得到所謂的專業家級多少錢"},{"start":4064.901,"end":4080.307,"text":"但後來發現如果他的資格被撤銷或者他其實是造假那他就會出現議領的問題那為什麼本質上助理費不會出現議領的問題呢是因為我今天跟你約定好四萬塊我就是簽四萬塊出去啊我不可能簽四萬塊出去然後立法院突然匯了一個四萬八千塊給你然後出現八千塊的議領嘛"},{"start":4081.727,"end":4103.517,"text":"對不對所以你們剛剛講的所謂人頭跟什麼跟義領是不一樣的概念是不一樣的概念所以我覺得這個地方做一下說明為什麼這些特別的家籍有義領是因為它有硬性條件硬性條件消滅的時候它就會出現義領的問題但是我們要給助理多少錢是我們都先簽好的簽好是照立法院立法院是照我們簽出去的金額去核發助理的薪水所以不可能立法院多發錢"},{"start":4104.938,"end":4122.068,"text":"我不知道這樣講大家有沒有聽得懂有關議領的部分那再來是培育委員剛剛講稅費的部分我跟大家借這個機會說明一下以前大家就是一個定額現在是42萬嘛對不對而且是每一次都要靠黨團協商這樣我是覺得很不穩定的我們的稅費立法委員的稅費一個月是109500多塊"},{"start":4124.21,"end":4140.167,"text":"稅費的5倍大概就是50萬也就是說比過去大概一個立法委員加了大概7萬塊的助理費的總額可以增加拿來給立委助理來做加薪那為什麼要跟稅費因為稅費我們的稅費跟軍公教的調薪是掛鉤的軍公教只要調幾%我們的稅費就會增加幾%我們的稅費增加幾%助理費補助的總額就增加幾%"},{"start":4144.412,"end":4171.215,"text":"這樣自然而然只要軍公教的這個薪水調漲助理費的總額也調漲我們就應該要幫助理加薪那我要講嘛就是這件事情為什麼我講我們一定要提修正版本就是因為這些錢不能進立法委員的口袋嘛這些錢就是要由立法院代收代付直接交給助理這樣子就不會有流入立法委員口袋的這樣子的一個問題這些我在條文裡面都會寫得很清楚以上三個問題我簡單做一下回應謝謝請莊越雄委員發言"},{"start":4173.73,"end":4191.166,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝主席其實剛剛立法院這邊也沒有講清楚我說這個案子國民黨提這個案子不太好心提這個案子不是為了幫助你加薪不是為了什麼要幫他法治化 不是當初是為了要除罪化就這麼簡單那現在提這個修正"},{"start":4194.409,"end":4223.324,"text":"案我認為是有懺悔但是有懺悔以後呢定義還是沒有講清楚我說我肯認你底下寫的這一些把立法院國會助理的這一些助理的專業家級也好資深的家級也好健康檢查這一些福利把它做一個法制化這個我都可以接受但是必須要講清楚的就是我再講一次就是說你那個立法院每一年以公務預算編列立法委員的補助費用沒有定性清楚的話"},{"start":4224.504,"end":4235.476,"text":"還是一樣啦 還是一樣啦按照最高法院的一個見解尤其剛剛劉委你提到說行政院也有提一些版本那個都沒有依託到議員助理補助費它不是議員的實質的薪資範圍啦那你這個地方如果講清楚的話就像比如說這個助理費"},{"start":4246.482,"end":4256.834,"text":"要補助立法委員的好那這個話要講清楚他不是立法委員的實質薪資只要這個清楚啦後面都沒有問題啦細節我不會跟你去計較真好啊跟法治法真好啊啊但是呢不能修法完以後你淨富惡獨完以後啊"},{"start":4267.245,"end":4269.128,"text":"社會滑爛了 得會啊起火了 著火了 燒到你國民黨了趕快你們來提這個案子提這個案子好像你們又講的義正直言我是要幫立委的助理 國會助理來提升他們的家籍不是"},{"start":4283.181,"end":4308.715,"text":"這個案子本來原來都不是這個這個案子原來就是要除罪話那現在你把這些牛委員提這個修正修正版我來肯認但是有一個地方我認為我們共同來講清楚啦就是說這一些錢你說本來本來按照按照你的修正理由你也講清楚啊你本來是立法院基於補助立法委員助理費而代為給付"},{"start":4310.32,"end":4327.348,"text":"對 你們本來寫這個 好那這個是什麼意思立法院的意思說 那沒我的事喔我是代理你立法委員來給付而已喔所以那個還算什麼也是立法委員的補助費啊所以我們必須要先講清楚這筆錢不是立法委員的實質薪資"},{"start":4328.598,"end":4355.615,"text":"我相信前面會被判刑的人都是這樣子嘛你議會的部分會被議會那個議員會柵嶺助理會或者國會議員去柵嶺助理會會被法院認為你這是柵嶺的原因就是說你那些助理會本來就不是你議員或者說你立法委員的實質薪資如果不是實質薪資的話後面這些就沒有問題啦所以我覺得剛才這個大家說得清楚啦但是"},{"start":4359.426,"end":4366.292,"text":"劉委員你也必須要去肯認一件事情就是要拖渡這個法案才會變成這樣子那我們一起來解套麻煩請沈博焱委員"},{"start":4371.801,"end":4392.271,"text":"我就一起好了然後再一起回那我認為就是說因為我剛剛第一個還是提到程旭的事項那剛剛聽立法院的這個試算加起來也快5億還是超過5億快6億所以當然不是當然我是覺得說如果說他都是放在福利上面他的確也是個不小的金額但是就如果是這個金額的話能夠在委員會討論我覺得還是"},{"start":4394.052,"end":4418.412,"text":"還是比較好啦就是說這個因為照理說你看這個條文現在那麼多文字也算多然後呢這個涉及的金額也高所以呢這個我覺得進入就程序上我覺得在委員會討論真的是比較合理好但這沒有關係我還是回到逸琳就是說因為剛剛你委員有舉一個例子就是說比如說一個人拿4萬一個人拿4萬那我們現在假設我們聘因為他聘8到14位嘛"},{"start":4419.593,"end":4443.192,"text":"那假設就是拼拼8位那一個人4萬那8位那這樣就是32萬所以我們現在的我的議領的問題就在這裡是因為因為你寫的議領是有議領或應返還專業家籍那我會覺得這個議領是不是跟專業家籍有關呢這看起來在條文是分開的這個文字上或許可以想一下但我的意思就是說好假設一個人4萬8個人是32萬對不對這個是剛剛舉的例子"},{"start":4446.874,"end":4472.47,"text":"那因為剛剛按照說的這個稅費是十萬然後是五倍嘛所以大概是五十萬我們就假設是五十萬好了或者五十幾萬那這樣立法院撥款是撥三十二還是撥五十照理說應該撥三十二嘛對不對好那既然應該撥三十二的話那我們就應該要把這一個稅費的這一個五倍應該當作上限才對啊就它是一個上限啊對不對因為因為你今天"},{"start":4476.103,"end":4498.645,"text":"為上限因為我覺得這個是一個重點就是說第一個你的金額要先確認對不對那你的金額如果這一個是個上限這個要明訂嘛這是第一個然後第二個就是他到底在因為我們現在講的是50那你今天有32你有18還沒有領到那如果今天有18沒有領到過往發生的案例就是有人用人頭嘛"},{"start":4499.445,"end":4526.63,"text":"對不對或者用各式各樣的方式然後把這一個錢拿回來就拿到自己的口袋那這個對我來講因為如果50它是一個上限你這個18你就是實質上你沒有用到你沒有用到結果你拿了人頭來用這個無論如何就是一個詐領那如果這個是詐領的話我們應該要把這個是詐領把它寫在法條上就是說我們把它定性上它是一個詐領因為我為什麼這樣講呢大家回憶一下之前我不是修那個懸罷法"},{"start":4527.99,"end":4542.78,"text":"我們說選罷法的時候就有在講說這是國民黨過的提案它裡面就有特別提到如果有偽造簽名等等之類的就回到偽造文書相關的罪章這個是有通過的法案這也是你們提出來的"},{"start":4543.38,"end":4565.975,"text":"所以我覺得對我們來講今天要杜絕爭議其實很簡單就直接把就是乍領相關的情形然後也不是說要把構成要寫在法條上都不用因為它就是一個組織法而已就是說回歸原來貪污自罪條例的規定回歸刑法這個使公務員在乃不時的規定那這樣就沒有爭議了因為這樣大家就說OK法律定性清楚了我們為什麼說我們因為剛剛這個陳委員呢"},{"start":4570.639,"end":4590.012,"text":"好 那沒關係但總之剛剛陳委員有提到說現在的法律的見解是不穩定的那我覺得立法院應該有這樣的一個義務把法律定性清楚就是說我們何必要做一件事情然後到最後都要等法院法院到底會把這個認定是詐領還是不是詐領然後整個社會在那邊猜應該不用"},{"start":4590.532,"end":4606.993,"text":"最好的方式就是立法院直接定性說什麼樣是詐勵如果是這個就回歸到貪汙自罪條例的規定那這樣也就沒有爭議那這樣對我們來講我們就會知道說OK這就是一個完全在爭取福利的法案那這樣的話其實我覺得就不會有這些紛爭這樣會比較快這樣比較快"},{"start":4611.885,"end":4627.037,"text":"好謝謝主席我們來看一下現在時間是11點47分我們從11點開始開會照理說這麼精實的討論應該要發生在委員會裡頭而不應該發生在黨團協商所以我還是要再度的抗議其實進負二讀這件事情真的非常的糟糕怎麼說"},{"start":4627.797,"end":4652.073,"text":"我們剛剛特別請那個人士你們告訴我們原來如果你用最寬的方法算你會增加這麼多錢那如果要增加這麼多錢錢從哪裡來納稅人繳的錢所以這件事情原本我們在提出相關的預算增加本來就要跟相關的行政機關討論可是我們看起來也沒有去跟行政院討論大家不要忘了我們立法院的錢是行政院就是國庫是人民納稅人的錢所以我再次強調為什麼剛剛張瑞雄委員一直強調"},{"start":4658.057,"end":4664.682,"text":"只用近乎二讀來解決這個事情看起來是非常糟糕第二個剛剛劉雪婷一開始就說什麼以訛傳訛社會嘩然沒有以訛傳訛你去看陳玉珍的版本你自己都說不贊成所以不是以訛傳訛是你們現在提了一個版本要出來洗白然後我們現在還在幫你們補救"},{"start":4674.89,"end":4690.35,"text":"我要再次強調不是以而傳而是因為有成癒症的版本衝在前面造成社會嘩然所以再次強調不是以而傳而再來違上限這件事情剛剛沈博洋已經提出來了如果就法律的定性上那個牛許廷委員你也贊成那你等一下就用麥克風講一次嘛我們就做下紀錄"},{"start":4691.091,"end":4719.61,"text":"再来法律定性没有清楚这件事情真的就会导致刚刚普马说的这些事情你要不要谈这个贪污自罪条例的事情刑法室公务员登载不实这些事情相关法律就办而不能用司法的契约协议为由主张来免责这件事情如果我们立法院自己都没有写清楚以后是不是不同的法官针对不同的案子就有不同的判例出来那你要人民怎么相信他选出来的立法委员是真的在为国家做事还是只是为了自肥自己的口袋还有我现在就公开讲"},{"start":4720.45,"end":4745.943,"text":"我不希望明天禮拜五假設你們硬要過水表決你們會做的事情是什麼一你們會在今天下午叫韓國瑜召開院長協商繼續過水我們就等著看我們等一下黨團會收到什麼樣的協商公文一我不希望看到二假設今天韓國瑜下午真的舉行了過水式的院長協商我們在明天禮拜五的院會早上議程要審定的過程當中我們不知道幾點會收到另外一個黑箱表決的版本"},{"start":4746.323,"end":4762.793,"text":"就是可能是牛許廷的版本加之前爆衝陳玉珍的版本然後最後我們要三讀表決你可以等一下告訴大家你們國民黨不會做這樣的壞事我剛剛就已經說了我希望不要看到我沒有在對你做指控我只是誠摯的提出民進黨團的呼籲跟告訴社會大眾我們不希望等一下一下午看到韓院長過水協商二明天議程審定之後看到國民黨再推出一個黑箱的版本"},{"start":4773.18,"end":4799.18,"text":"然後看起來是牛許廷的版本其實夾帶了陳玉珍要爆衝自肥的版本好 那麼我想還需要回應嗎因為事實上我想我們今天的這個案子主要是這個完成在我們這個政黨協商的部分主席 沒關係就讓我回應一下那就請牛委員 麻煩三分鐘"},{"start":4800.303,"end":4815.419,"text":"這個好這個莊瑞雄委員一直在講說還是在講說法律定性的問題但法律定性你如果從助理費不管是從歷史的流變跟現行的制度跟議員的參照來講他都是補助費對不對就是這樣子所以我覺得這是我已經講很多次了"},{"start":4820.564,"end":4834.599,"text":"當然不是實時清單你的什麼辦公室什麼什麼裝潢這些是實時清單不是嘛但他都是立法院給委員的部分嘛差你一秒對不對國民黨就只有你的講法跟你們國民黨不一樣而已我肯認你好不好好 謝謝我肯認你你這一點是對的可是你們國民黨就是把他當成"},{"start":4837.582,"end":4847.014,"text":"國會議員跟議員的實質薪資不然你提這個修正案你要解決什麼嘛所以現在在討論的是修正案而不是大水庫版本所以說嘛現在不是委員會嘛我就說你們在這裡洗白提這個懺悔的法案嘛就開大門走大路啦就很簡單啦你們這個人不應該這樣寵的啊"},{"start":4855.558,"end":4880.273,"text":"好 第二個是有關於剛剛財政的負擔那當然會增加嘛但我講這筆錢它就是給助理的失職補貼待遇我希望這件事情大家用開放的心態來討論因為這個錢就是給助理加薪的這是照顧我們所有的基層政治工作者我希望大家用這樣的心態來做討論那依然剛剛陳培宇委員講了很多一下子講說這一場協商非常的矜持一下講又是過水如果只是過水我就會講說我堅持"},{"start":4881.775,"end":4897.696,"text":"主席我插話一下我剛剛有跟你說我們這麼精實的討論應該在委員會啦不是在協商的時候討論嘛你看剛剛主席都已經叫你不要講只給你三分鐘主席我剛剛你剛剛指教我都很認真聽嘛你就不要打斷我對不對你又講精實要講過我今天來就是藉這個場合把這些話講清楚嘛"},{"start":4898.337,"end":4926.156,"text":"本質上就是在增加助理的補貼待遇剛剛講一個非常好就是說會不會出現奇奇怪怪的版本我非常非常希望大家可以在協商的過程中聚焦在助理的待遇這個調整如果OK可以簽字因為過去調整待遇大家都是盡量的達成共識的方式來處理這樣也絕對不會有借勢還魂的問題在這裡我也可以跟大家宣示國民黨黨團希望我來處理這件事情好好的團因為我本來就很主張助理待遇要提升"},{"start":4926.676,"end":4950.894,"text":"那既然現在出現這個版本 我就會堅持這個版本好不好堅持這個版本 請你放心如果最後又出現 我剛剛已經跟大家說了在這個地方 我都公開的講大水庫的版本 連國民黨黨內 大家都是不同意的所以不會出現不會出現陳培宇委員剛剛講的什麼突然揭示還魂 爆衝不會有這樣的事情不會有這樣的事情金服二讀是我的版本來 不是陳昱臻的版本 對不對"},{"start":4953.493,"end":4965.169,"text":"好啦 我講完了我總是要大門大錄的回應嘛謝謝主席啦好 麻煩這個陳委員也是給你最後的三分鐘因為我們想今天不會有結果啦主席我幫你喚醒你的建議那個記憶啦"},{"start":4966.943,"end":4984.151,"text":"你去聽我跟你說我就說這些討論是我們民進黨在救你因為你還是沒有回答法律定性的問題然後呢大家去看一下當時呢歐小林委員你自己記不記得你在那個經費集合委員上你要求我們法治局呢我不知道什麼你們一個莫名其妙的要求經費集合委員會呢去做出相關的報告當時呢那個你們的那個法治局的局長啊在我問他的時候他還上台說"},{"start":4990.214,"end":4998.137,"text":"他說啊這個就是韓院長要求他去做出相關研究跟報告那韓院長為什麼要求經費集合委員還有法治局做這個事情呢因為一樣嘛是議長黨團來所謂的議長團來拜訪然後就做這個事情結果呢後續呢法治局自己給搞出這個報告我一定要說他是給搞"},{"start":5007.921,"end":5034.153,"text":"然後在這個法治局的報告後來就作為這個高雄案判決相關的依據嗎 我們不確定所以呢 劉許廷委員 我跟你講啦你這個不只是洗白啦 你還是假白版本啦你這個版本多麼噁心 我告訴你你到時候就會拿法治局這個見解立法院法治局現在就是你們的人嘛你就拿這個法律見解然後加上你這個不願意寫清楚法律定性的修改條文說你們是 是你們國民黨跟民眾黨了不起在增加助理的福利然後最後呢 就除罪話了嘛"},{"start":5034.713,"end":5063.868,"text":"大家看懂了嗎就是這樣的招數請台灣人民看清楚拿著法治局自家人做的報告然後呢又不願在法律定性上寫清楚然後最後禮拜五好啦就算你真的以為你坦蕩蕩沒有加上陳玉珍的版本啊一樣最後所有的法官是不是就要拿著高鴻安這個判例來說法律定性沒有寫清楚嘛你法律定性不寫清楚然後你也不願意承諾然後剛沈伯陽問你問題你也沒有回答嘛要不要把那個所謂的你們從選罷法修的那邊事情"},{"start":5064.528,"end":5089.828,"text":"一過來 貪污之罪條例的部分或是刑法使公務員登載不實的事情你為什麼不肯回答 不敢回答呢好 麻煩這個首委最後30秒30秒就好 30秒就好因為我覺得這整件事情就是說我們就還是我再主張一次這整件事情是增加福利的絕對不是問題但是問題是出在就是說法律定性我們自己立法院講清楚是好事這樣其實也是在幫助我覺得都是在幫助國民黨"},{"start":5090.549,"end":5112.649,"text":"那如果說今天在這個部分議領的部分能夠回歸貪污自罪條例那我乍領的部分能夠回歸貪污自罪條例這個一定就是可以跟讓就是這個會國人會非常清楚說對對對絕對不是在除罪化而是在增加福利這樣其實就一翻兩瞪眼這其實也不用幾個字就可以解決的事情所以我覺得最後再把這個主張再講一次謝謝"},{"start":5115.576,"end":5138.484,"text":"因為剛剛陳培明委員大概有講到一個部分我稍微解釋一下我是在當經費集合委員會的時候當時候有看到我們立法委員在聘任助理的部分的確是非常僵化沒有彈性不能夠聘任兼任助理臨時工等等所以後來就是請法治局可以做一份報告有關於國費"},{"start":5140.725,"end":5166.005,"text":"這個國會助理聘用的事情所以這個完全就是公開透明而且當時在經費集合委員會上面還特別要求立法院所做的報告應該要公開所以這是不分藍綠的就是希望說能夠了解世界各國對於國會助理這個問題好 那麼所以請陳美語委員不要去怪罪這個法治局因為他們其實也是依照他們的專業來提出這份報告書的"},{"start":5168.927,"end":5189.796,"text":"我沒有怪罪法治舉我是怪罪這些提出莫名其妙案子的委員OK 那麼看起來我們今天針對立法院組織法的32條33條35條的修正草案的這些內容沒有共識沒有共識所以本席現在要做一些宣示就是本日協商"},{"start":5192.703,"end":5211.058,"text":"本日協商的過程公開發言內容都已經錄音錄影並且列入記錄但是因為仍然無法達成共識所以我們就後續依照立法院職權刑事法第12章相關規定處理那麼我們今天的會議就到此結束謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"167326","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167326","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a880d9bb53ad67a71dc6bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b2b49bd0206f014fb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"10:23:12 - 10:34:01","影片長度":"00:10:49","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:23:12+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:34:01+08:00","duration":649,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":7.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.25409375,"end":3.8953437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.19471875,"end":5.920343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.388468750000001,"end":8.957843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.12534375,"end":27.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.992843750000002,"end":37.290968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":37.56096875,"end":51.516593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.360343750000006,"end":54.047843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":54.570968750000006,"end":57.017843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.56659375,"end":55.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.017843750000004,"end":57.439718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.439718750000004,"end":69.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.42096875,"end":69.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":69.57284375,"end":70.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.64034375,"end":69.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.37846875000001,"end":72.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.13346875,"end":78.58409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.07346875,"end":84.87846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.63784375,"end":88.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.08034375000001,"end":90.59909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.49346875,"end":92.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.95721875000001,"end":94.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.50534375000001,"end":99.64409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.65659375000001,"end":104.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.36909375,"end":161.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.06471875,"end":163.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.34284375000001,"end":168.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.48159375,"end":167.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.23659375,"end":174.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.56909375,"end":175.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.09221875,"end":184.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.49159375000002,"end":190.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":191.59596875000003,"end":200.01659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":200.48909375000002,"end":208.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.01096875000002,"end":218.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.91659375,"end":221.53221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.12284375000002,"end":223.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.82721875000001,"end":237.56346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.69846875000002,"end":274.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":274.84034375000005,"end":279.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.53159375,"end":289.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.67346875000004,"end":292.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.28909375,"end":292.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.96409375,"end":367.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.00659375000004,"end":345.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.16159375,"end":353.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":367.87221875,"end":398.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":398.55096875000004,"end":412.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":412.92846875000004,"end":413.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.83971875000003,"end":413.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":413.85659375,"end":413.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.87346875000003,"end":413.95784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":413.95784375000005,"end":413.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.97471875,"end":436.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.03034375000004,"end":436.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.94159375000004,"end":441.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.41346875000005,"end":441.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":441.86909375000005,"end":444.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":445.05846875000003,"end":454.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.20909375,"end":453.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.37784375,"end":454.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.18784375,"end":457.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.08596875,"end":458.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":458.13659375000003,"end":461.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":461.95034375,"end":463.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.91096875000005,"end":498.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":498.61971875,"end":503.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.04471875,"end":520.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.16471875,"end":534.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.0359687499999,"end":536.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.79096875,"end":542.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.7647187499999,"end":547.7934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.84409375,"end":556.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":556.18034375,"end":567.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":567.4865937500001,"end":570.8447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":571.21596875,"end":571.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":572.32971875,"end":572.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":573.49409375,"end":575.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":576.39659375,"end":595.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":596.66346875,"end":599.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.9665937500001,"end":616.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":601.84409375,"end":602.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":606.5522187500001,"end":607.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":617.62221875,"end":626.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":626.36346875,"end":646.9678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.1240937499999,"end":646.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.14096875,"end":646.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.9678437499999,"end":648.13221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.309,"end":23.898,"text":"謝謝主席 有請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長鐵道局楊局長跟公務局林局長 謝謝林福山局長部長早 兩位局長早我剛剛聽了我們國民黨跟民眾黨的委員講那個論調 想要討回"},{"start":28.069,"end":49.568,"text":"他們根本是倒贏為國這個我想這個到目前為止我們的這個今年度的總預算還躺在立法院還沒有審這個沒錢是要怎麼做建設他們一直把很多的問題推卸給我們的交通部推卸給我們相關的單位推卸給行政院真的是很離譜的那所以我想針對這樣的一個"},{"start":52.595,"end":71.691,"text":"立法院的一個困境部長我其實很憤怒我們屏東的尤其過去從我們的潘孟安前縣長到現在周初美縣長我們一路走來記得我們努力的屏東幾個幾項的重要的交通建設我想部長跟局長都非常清楚雙北現在買什麼要有什麼"},{"start":73.206,"end":92.553,"text":"他們的這個整個大眾交通運輸非常的便利捷運已經做過了我們屏東的高鐵還沒有來捷運也還沒有來甚至連我們現在屏南快速道路還在還貧真的我們的交通建設真的站不起來保水對我們屏東人情何以堪難道我們沒有納稅錢嗎太離譜了吧部長我想針對這樣的一個總預算的問題"},{"start":100.694,"end":120.011,"text":"交通部目前正在這樣的一個困境我們怎麼處理請部長說明報告委員您剛剛所提到的高鐵的部分我們也希望能夠繼續往前推進雖然說還有討論的這個空間但是我們還是希望往前推進我剛剛有講過就是說我們希望我們在高鐵的"},{"start":120.692,"end":138.503,"text":"部分已經20年了我們現在就是務實的延伸務實的延伸這個部分我們會努力來推進另外平南快的部分我們也希望能夠快一點來進行目前的可行性研究我們現在等行政院這邊來核定已經核定了另外"},{"start":139.764,"end":161.02,"text":"高屏二快的部分院長在去年其實也有到這個屏東去也有宣布過我們希望能夠今年來動工但是因為現在總預算沒有過我們很擔心這個動工的時程會不會去延遲那我們當然希望不要去延遲到所以我們會想盡辦法讓高屏二快的部分能夠趕快來做動工的動作"},{"start":162.253,"end":190.27,"text":"部長 我想 我知道包含您跟我們的交通部都很努力但是我們不能被受困於藍白可以政治算計但屏東的交通建設不能繼續落後我想對我們情何以堪尤其今天講的觀光發展為什麼屏東縣現在觀光會受到這麼樣的困境交通難道不是一個很重要的一個因素嗎不然你也常常去屏東你也很清楚我們光是要到屏東的路途裸遙萬"},{"start":191.653,"end":206.223,"text":"我每天坐車要坐火車坐高鐵來台北開會來回就要六個小時那對我們這些遊客來講他光是五天的行程來回平常就浪費兩天的交通耗的時間在那裡對我們來講怎麼會有誘因呢"},{"start":209.065,"end":222.71,"text":"我想這個問題我們都要去面對都要去解決好那剛剛部長你講的那針對高屏二塊原本我們預期是今年要動工那這個預算也已經都編代今年的總預算今年會不會動工"},{"start":223.971,"end":242.642,"text":"報告委員 我們原本的計畫是希望9月底能夠動工那現在總預算確實是有延遲到我們現在還是在請公路局想盡辦法我們想盡辦法趕快讓他能夠動工是不是 我請局長來回答一下 是這邊跟委員報告一下確實就是說高屏二塊今年新興計畫在今年的預算是3.5億"},{"start":243.903,"end":263.971,"text":"那裡面大概有這個1.5億是屬於設計那這個其他它將近2億是屬於用地徵收的部分那原來的現在在做這個篆桿這個設計當中那按照原定的期程是希望在9月底針對在這個台三線加入到因為是台台農土地比較容易取得希望來這個動工"},{"start":265.131,"end":291.998,"text":"那這個目前我們也很期盼這個預算趕快審查通過但是現在相關的這個前置的設計我們還是在這個改變當中這個要拜託交通部我們一樣要照期程的進行第二個平台快速道路那因為我上個禮拜我有請環境部跟部裡面來討論我們希望能夠加快這個重規跟環境的一個進度那這部分局長我們目前的進度會不會再能夠提前"},{"start":293.279,"end":307.752,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下就是說就是委員大概就是非常關切那環境部那邊也在這一個協助那另外一個部分這一個就是這禮拜大概就是上禮拜大概就是城鎮委那邊也有特別這個召集來跨部會做協助"},{"start":308.152,"end":325.681,"text":"那目前大概就是說第一階段環評的部分這個我們已經提送環境部那環境部也很幫忙在2月4號會來做這個審查那如果說順利的話這個分手界定完之後那就可以這個配合我們現在現行的這個中規的一個作業那開展第二階段的環評"},{"start":326.841,"end":344.343,"text":"那陳政委這個也召開會議來協助那希望說訂這個目標在116年8月可以把這個二節環評把它做就是這個通過那相關的部分我們局裡面公務局也跟這個屏東縣政府大概有這個協調"},{"start":345.824,"end":366.295,"text":"因為未來在水底寮那邊會有一個加油道那這個跟水底寮外環道的公司185的一個聯絡道部分的話我們跟屏東縣政府也有這個公司那會作為這個仙島工程來做一個處理那希望說在116年底這個仙島工程可以來動工"},{"start":367.912,"end":384.383,"text":"好我希望今天局長講的這個未來我們都會來檢視一定要照這樣的期程來進行我們的屏東鄉親已經等很久了這條救命路真的等很久了部長那我想針對高鐵部分當然現在我們的前交通部的部長"},{"start":385.504,"end":401.146,"text":"這個最近也透過媒體一直在放話說這個我們屏東南沿屏東甚至北沿宜蘭的部分他們都認為沒有這個效益甚至有一些路廊的問題那我很遺憾的說過去這個整個"},{"start":402.275,"end":416.814,"text":"這個台灣的這個交通發展過去為什麼會重北青南難道這些人不用負責任嗎對得起我們屏東人嗎對得起宜蘭人嗎部長你有什麼看法是 報告委員我還是那句話啦對於高鐵的議題"},{"start":418.035,"end":435.669,"text":"我們現在交通部的立場是務實而穩健的延伸什麼叫務實而穩健的延伸第一在工程的技術上可以克服可以做得到那第二在國家的預算上可以支撐的了也就是我們的預算能夠負擔的了的狀況底下我們會務實來推動延伸的計畫"},{"start":436.963,"end":462.218,"text":"我想我們的賴總統已經講過了嘛我們未來要均衡台灣連交通都不會均衡是不會讓台灣進步啦我想這個部分我們屏東人我還是要特別強調我們還是要享有交通平權的一個權利我們屏東人是站著要保守的部長在我們座位來拍片這樣好不好這個部分我們交通部會來努力也感謝委員的支持好 那個兩位局長請回答請那個觀光署陳署長陳署長"},{"start":471.136,"end":497.841,"text":"我想我們針對這個台灣的這個觀光發展那行政院這邊也提出了一個115到118的一個4年的一個計畫北回之巔跟這個微笑南彎的一個計畫但是很遺憾的一樣卡在總預算的問題那尤其針對目前整個這個我們觀光署也好針對整個這個地方政府也好會受到很大的一個觀光景點的一個發展跟觀光活動的一個推動的一個瓶頸"},{"start":498.701,"end":526.188,"text":"那面對這個問題我們觀光署會不會來繼續來協調繼續來推動這個案子謝謝委員提出來這個問題因為今年的擴大內需跟我們的北回直電都是國家重要級的建設公共建設那這件事情也是屬於各地方政府也非常的期待跟支持那在去年觀光署就已經組成了為了北回直電這個案子我們已經組成了一個總顧問團"},{"start":528.308,"end":554.125,"text":"希望以軟帶硬把這條軸線上面除了公共建設之外但是到底有哪些的故事在這裡先已經在內部做盤點所以我們是急需要這個計畫趕快通過那我們相關後面的工作才能開始啟動大家都重視觀光產業的發展但是如果預算不過就會勢必上延後了我們後面整個台灣觀光發展的一個機會那在這邊還是懇請立法院趕快審預算趕快通過預算謝謝"},{"start":556.266,"end":575.577,"text":"因為我聽說國民黨跟民眾黨的委員說因為你們現在規劃的案子都是否我們這個綠營執政的縣市其實我們把計畫攤開來看看國民黨的縣市難道沒有嗎更多花蓮台東南投都有啊我想這是一個均衡觀光的一個做法"},{"start":576.477,"end":599.563,"text":"那目前我們的柯執恩委員 謝榮介委員 蘇勛委員你們也是要進行選縣市長難道你們不支持這些案子嗎所以我們還是要再三呼籲在野黨要趕快來省預算 不要再阻擋總預算我想這個部分能夠讓我們的觀光發展能夠趕快往前推進那最後我想 最後一個問題部長 最近這個101事件你有什麼看法"},{"start":601.785,"end":616.755,"text":"101事件我們這個爬101這個是國人大家都很振奮的一件事情那在過程當中其實交通部也有幫上一些忙但是我們沒有把它特別去做宣傳因為這個是101的這個甲董事長他們努力的方向"},{"start":617.662,"end":645.135,"text":"因為我知道我們現在觀光行銷上面我們當然有很多的策略了包含網紅也好 包含演唱會經濟也好但我想我們現在這個不同的課程尤其包含國內外的這個遊客要來一定有不一樣的這個課程的安排跟這個玩法我們觀光署也應該要與時俱進是 要想辦法不一樣的方式啦是 方便自己會主動去做讓大家願意來關注這樣的一個發展我想這是一個很好的一個案例啦好 謝謝"},{"start":646.498,"end":647.566,"text":"好 謝謝許祐魁委員"}]}},{"id":"167325","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167325","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88cf4cf92afbe5ecc26bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b2b49bd0206f014fb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李昆澤","委員發言時間":"10:11:59 - 10:22:46","影片長度":"00:10:47","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:11:59+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:22:46+08:00","duration":647,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.92534375,"end":4.6040937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.992218750000001,"end":9.379718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.127218750000001,"end":5.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.72596875,"end":8.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.649093750000002,"end":56.039093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.00346875,"end":14.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.032843750000001,"end":15.404093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.812843750000003,"end":19.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.567218750000002,"end":24.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.36284375,"end":36.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.393468750000004,"end":68.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.679718750000006,"end":60.713468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.32409375,"end":68.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.50971875,"end":70.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.00721875,"end":75.19221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.56346875,"end":78.58409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.12409375,"end":82.56659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.88721875,"end":85.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.39721875000001,"end":87.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.20284375,"end":99.61034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.30221875000001,"end":100.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.43284375,"end":103.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.50846875,"end":106.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.71471875,"end":107.91284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.27971875,"end":122.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.28596875000001,"end":133.88346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.84971875000002,"end":133.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.88346875000002,"end":134.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.18721875,"end":136.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.88721875000002,"end":137.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.56221875,"end":140.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.85284375,"end":141.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.13534375,"end":142.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.41346875000002,"end":146.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.59034375000002,"end":147.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.51846875,"end":172.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.53971875000002,"end":179.85096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.05346875,"end":188.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.65971875000002,"end":192.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.47346875000002,"end":195.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.05096875,"end":200.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.33284375000002,"end":205.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.78784375,"end":214.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.19159375,"end":220.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.76846875,"end":223.20284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.92846875,"end":234.62721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.82971875,"end":238.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.94721875000002,"end":244.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.97159375,"end":251.04659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.09721875000002,"end":271.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.35034375,"end":251.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.41784375,"end":251.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.35534375000003,"end":284.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.05409375,"end":284.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.15534375000004,"end":284.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.20596875,"end":284.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.54346875000005,"end":289.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.28534375000004,"end":313.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.37159375000005,"end":304.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.95659375,"end":348.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.63471875000005,"end":361.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.01659375,"end":429.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.18534375,"end":362.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.20846875,"end":440.95784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.24034375,"end":446.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.72909375,"end":448.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.43784375,"end":448.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.90159375,"end":453.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":454.03596875000005,"end":462.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":462.28784375000004,"end":475.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.22659375,"end":490.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.85721875,"end":522.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.4765937500001,"end":550.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.9028437500001,"end":623.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":553.46346875,"end":553.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":555.2522187500001,"end":555.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.7647187499999,"end":626.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.9540937500001,"end":642.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.47909375,"end":644.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":643.5590937500001,"end":645.4153437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.973,"end":5.442,"text":"好 謝謝主席請一下陳士凱部長還有楊振軍局長陳英秀署長陳署長"},{"start":13.94,"end":33.715,"text":"部長 剛才的委員討論到宜蘭高鐵的問題我是高雄栽培的立法委員但我也是宜蘭的子弟那針對宜蘭高鐵的問題我想現在宜蘭的主流民意已經不是在關心需不需要做"},{"start":34.255,"end":55.47,"text":"宜蘭的這個高鐵的延伸而是在關心相關宜蘭高鐵的進度到底什麼時候要到動工到底什麼時候要完工這個是宜蘭鄉親最主要關心的一個趨勢那是不是史詩級的災難或是需不需要宜蘭高鐵的延伸其實"},{"start":56.491,"end":85.459,"text":"在還沒有高鐵之前我就在交通委員會當時高鐵在興建的過程裡面也受到很大的攻擊也被認為是史詩級的一個災難認為高鐵就是廢鐵沒有必要做這樣的一個交通的一個工程那我們也看到高雄的捷運在做的時候紅線橘線也是被攻擊說高雄根本就不需要"},{"start":86.468,"end":107.245,"text":"捷運而且紅線局線完成之後我們要推動環狀的輕軌也是被攻擊說根本就沒有必要來做輕軌到現在輕軌已經是要買新車因為搭乘的人太多了班次要更密集而且要買新車"},{"start":109.329,"end":130.334,"text":"高雄的紅線跟橘線接應也已經不夠現在黃線已經在動工我們正在爭取紫線的這樣一個規劃當初的這些交通的規劃及完成才讓整個台灣的一日生活圈跟高雄現在的發展轉型以及高科技未來的城市的這樣的一個願景"},{"start":131.55,"end":142.329,"text":"才得以一步一步的實現這個宜蘭高鐵是要做的我現在先請教一下陳玉秀署長"},{"start":144.448,"end":172.532,"text":"我們現在總預算卡關但是原本陳玉秀署長有推出我們這樣一個國旅住宿的優惠方案相關的觀光業者大家都非常的期待因為在淡季期間我們編了23億不管是平日的住宿的優惠我們預計有16億然後生日的這樣一個住宿優惠大概有2000萬當然我們還有遊樂園的留宿方案等等"},{"start":173.601,"end":200.783,"text":"旅遊業者非常期待但是我們預計是應該是在4月要實施嗎是不是來說明一下是謝謝委員關心這個事情確實當時我們推出這個方案的時候業界普遍都是非常期待跟而且還有民眾打電話到光屬的旅客中心就感謝我們提出這個方案那現在當時我們的規劃第一個4到6月是全年度相對的比較淡的時候"},{"start":201.423,"end":222.982,"text":"那這樣再加上我們當時考慮的是如果12月31號前預算通過我們有兩個月的準備期加上一個月的宣傳期4月1號剛剛好執行我相信對這整個計畫是效益最好的時候那現在總預算仍然是在卡關的這樣一個過程那我們實施會不會受到延誤有沒有其他替代方案"},{"start":224.196,"end":244.313,"text":"勢必上是一定是會受到影響因為我們的準備期是真的需要最緊最快都還要一個半月的時間所以這會牽涉到我們到底預算什麼時候過如果四月到六月無法執行的話後面就變是有點事半功事倍功半效益就會不如預期"},{"start":245.054,"end":271.131,"text":"我建議我們相關的行政的籌備流程還是照常的進行總預算如果能夠順利通過就能夠立即的實施在還沒有實施之前因為淡季的這樣的一個補助優惠業者是非常的期待認為是有助於觀光的一個活力的一個發展那如果這個預算一直卡關我們也必須要有替代的方案我請教一下你們有沒有替代方案"},{"start":273.399,"end":288.676,"text":"我們還是希望要能去支持這個項目確實就因為我們大概從十月份開始已經討論相關的工作我們現在有點箭在弦上了部長我們現在整個總預算卡關我們對於觀光的發展"},{"start":289.497,"end":309.973,"text":"其實業者也都非常的明白是因為總預算卡關所以我們在相關的補助的這些優惠的方案或者是相關的國際旅遊的行銷或者是其他新興的計畫其實都碰到問題那部長對於這樣的一個觀光發展在面臨總預算被卡關的這樣的狀況之下你有什麼預備的這樣的一個處理的方案"},{"start":314.196,"end":330.412,"text":"報告委員我們當然以現在能夠做的內容來做就是說過去我們有的這個預算或者是計畫我們延續性的我們繼續來做但是如果有超過的大概就不行像您所提到的這個平日國旅優惠方案"},{"start":331.113,"end":347.663,"text":"這個就是超過了我們原本的那個額度的部分這個部分大概就沒有辦法來推但我們還是要呼籲立法院能夠趕快的審議我們的總預算讓我們的預算趕快過不然很多的事情包含TPAS在內你說要怎麼樣的預備方案其實有點困難"},{"start":348.263,"end":371.653,"text":"好 當然這個補助對於國旅的推動是有實質的幫助但是我要提醒部長跟署長我們對於觀光旅遊的一個發展還是要必須從區域的旅遊品牌就是地方的特色 多元永續還有旅宿的品質以及交通的改善來作為一個推動整體觀光發展一個重要的元素"},{"start":372.393,"end":397.505,"text":"當然我們在實質的政策對於軟硬體的這樣的一個推動其實更重要是對國內外旅客對於台灣旅遊的信任但是最近發生兩件事情對國內外旅客對台灣旅遊的信任就產生了很大的疑問第一個就是知名大型旅行社用戶資料外洩的這樣一個問題那我們都知道"},{"start":398.385,"end":417.433,"text":"旅客有很多旅行社他是來代辦這些旅客的相關的這些旅遊的資料他們的資料會提供非常多的這些資料給旅行社發生這些外洩的狀況其實就讓國內外旅客對台灣的旅遊信任度就產生了這些質疑"},{"start":417.913,"end":435.919,"text":"那當然這展現了兩個問題第一個問題就是說我們對於業者管理這些個別的各自管理的這樣的一個狀況是怎麼處理的交通部觀光署必須要明確的掌握以及相關企業本身他資訊的這些安全的問題其實也浮現出來請部長說明一下"},{"start":442.367,"end":450.974,"text":"報告委員這個部分 觀光署應該會趕快去查處就是說已經進行查處我請那個旅行社負責的組長湯組長來簡單說明一下"},{"start":454.353,"end":473.78,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實針對那個旅行社各自部分我們分兩個部分一個就是我們平時就已經有在做查處那公安署已經有訂定計劃所以我們每年都會預防性的去做各自檢查那針對各自外線的旅行社的話我們會馬上啟動調查那針對五福這件我們昨天已經去查過了那我們都會依照相關規定來做辦理"},{"start":476.274,"end":488.721,"text":"那最主要民間它不是它是那種非關鍵基礎設施的管理範圍所以公機關是難以直接的介入那我們看到許多代辦業者"},{"start":490.956,"end":511.492,"text":"例如像這次的旅行社他們代辦民眾相關的這些業務他需要取得更多的這些用戶的個資企業本身他的資訊的安全防護技術其實是沒有辦法及時的更新類似的事件我認為還是會重複的發生"},{"start":513.894,"end":521.24,"text":"主管機關必須要督促以及協助業者來建立更完善的這種資訊安全的防護來 請簡單說明一下"},{"start":523.73,"end":549.826,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實都有在輔導業者我們也會希望他們可以參加就是相關的這個認證有一些旅行社已經有取得資安的認證那因為旅行社大部分都是中小型企業就是10人以下居多啦那大型企業其實我們都已經有在做個資檢查那五福發生這件事情應該也是駭客入侵啦那之前也有別的旅行社大家旅行社有發生過那其實發生之後他們都會特別的"},{"start":550.026,"end":576.439,"text":"不容許一再的發生這對國內外旅客對台灣旅遊的信任會降低我是認為必須要跨部會來制定或者是更新既有相關各自的管理規範以及相關的資訊安全的一些指引而且要有定期的集合的機制而且我們要協助業者跟出發部來建立相關的這一種風險事件的這些預警以及預防"},{"start":577.239,"end":594.276,"text":"提供業者來他們在發生的時候能夠由資安院還有相關的單位來提供及時的協助最後我們來提一下我們相關的這些住宿的問題這也是影響到旅遊的這些信任那"},{"start":595.157,"end":622.972,"text":"我們看到民眾預計連結要出遊提前支付相關的訂金來訂定這些旅宿後續業者就說不好意思我們房間要整修我們也沒有辦法提供相同的房型提供來讓民眾來更換所以要求你們退訂然後退訂之後這樣的要求然後我們看到民眾發現業者在其他地方以更高的價格來販售相同的這些房型"},{"start":623.972,"end":642.106,"text":"這些觀光署有什麼處理的機制這個部分如果說消費者呢遇到這樣的問題他可以直接跟地方政府的小法官來提出申訴那如果查證屬實他是惡意棄單的話基本上我們是可以罰他三倍的那個罰金的這個部分是這樣子這個要確實的基準以上謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167324","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167324","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88d394018e116dd8976bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b3eb26cf665c94cb75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許智傑","委員發言時間":"10:01:08 - 10:11:37","影片長度":"00:10:29","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:01:08+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:11:37+08:00","duration":629,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.5072187500000003,"end":6.915968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.73346875,"end":14.290343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.610968750000001,"end":19.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.35284375,"end":22.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.00221875,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.035968750000002,"end":22.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.11596875,"end":27.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.570968750000002,"end":29.089718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.152843750000002,"end":31.570343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.570343750000003,"end":31.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.80659375,"end":31.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.87409375,"end":31.890968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.890968750000003,"end":31.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.90784375,"end":31.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.97534375,"end":32.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.95409375,"end":32.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.970968750000004,"end":33.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.03846875,"end":33.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.494093750000005,"end":34.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.56159375,"end":39.096593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.90721875,"end":42.977843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.48846875,"end":44.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.977843750000005,"end":43.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.43346875,"end":43.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.80471875,"end":44.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.188468750000006,"end":53.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.664718750000006,"end":49.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.35596875,"end":53.862218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.862218750000004,"end":53.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.87909375,"end":53.963468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.963468750000004,"end":54.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.01409375,"end":54.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.03096875,"end":56.595968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.88721875,"end":61.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.31659375,"end":64.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.86471875000001,"end":64.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.89846875,"end":66.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.96596875,"end":65.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.13471875,"end":65.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.38784375,"end":65.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.57346875,"end":69.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.69096875000001,"end":70.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.19721875,"end":75.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.23846875000001,"end":79.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.60909375,"end":86.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.19471875,"end":86.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.61659375,"end":86.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.13971875,"end":97.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.65284375,"end":102.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.18784375000001,"end":115.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.81034375,"end":126.22221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.71159375,"end":126.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.89721875000001,"end":129.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.27221875,"end":139.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.97159375,"end":137.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.97534375,"end":144.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.75096875,"end":146.94471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.80534375000002,"end":150.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.06221875,"end":159.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.75659375,"end":169.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.42221875,"end":171.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.97034375,"end":173.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.53534375,"end":176.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.59409375,"end":183.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.85034375,"end":184.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.57596875000002,"end":185.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.84534375,"end":193.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.00471875000002,"end":201.38346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.97409375,"end":207.74534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.53846875000002,"end":209.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.27659375000002,"end":215.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.96346875,"end":222.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.76409375,"end":226.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.89846875,"end":228.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.57284375,"end":236.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.68159375000002,"end":242.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.18284375000002,"end":251.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.80596875,"end":260.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.91846875000005,"end":263.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.63534375,"end":268.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.88346875,"end":271.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.05596875000003,"end":275.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.46471875000003,"end":276.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.11846875000003,"end":280.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.99971875,"end":281.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.85596875000005,"end":283.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.59409375,"end":289.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.38659375000003,"end":289.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.50034375,"end":293.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.76971875000004,"end":297.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.82409375000003,"end":307.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.34971875,"end":310.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.85159375,"end":313.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.97346875,"end":319.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.87971875,"end":322.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.49534375,"end":323.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.86221875,"end":328.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.33409375,"end":330.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.51096875,"end":330.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.18596875000003,"end":332.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.26159375000003,"end":335.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.59034375000005,"end":339.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.84284375000004,"end":343.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.79159375,"end":346.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.41971875,"end":349.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.20409375,"end":351.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.17846875000004,"end":352.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.57909375,"end":355.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.78971875,"end":357.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.81471875,"end":359.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.99159375000005,"end":361.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.28659375,"end":364.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.68284375,"end":369.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.72846875000005,"end":372.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":375.21284375000005,"end":375.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.24659375000005,"end":375.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":375.36471875,"end":375.56721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":375.92159375,"end":376.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.93409375000005,"end":381.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":381.72659375,"end":392.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.42159375,"end":389.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.56034375,"end":396.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.60596875000005,"end":399.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.47471875,"end":401.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.17909375000005,"end":402.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.30971875,"end":405.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.83659375,"end":407.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.64659375,"end":409.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.26221875000005,"end":410.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.88659375000003,"end":412.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.13096875,"end":416.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.28221875,"end":420.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.87659375000004,"end":421.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.09159375,"end":423.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.96471875000003,"end":426.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.83346875,"end":428.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.49971875,"end":433.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.54534375000003,"end":440.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.95784375000005,"end":445.53096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.96534375000005,"end":451.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.31909375000004,"end":456.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.60096875000005,"end":462.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.19909375000003,"end":467.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.07596875,"end":483.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.51659375,"end":485.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.33471875000004,"end":487.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.17409375000005,"end":491.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.95409375,"end":494.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.00409375000004,"end":498.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.21034375000005,"end":506.21346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.53409375,"end":509.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.72346875000005,"end":518.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.5659687500001,"end":527.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":527.9484687500001,"end":529.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":529.31534375,"end":531.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":531.81284375,"end":534.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":534.81659375,"end":542.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":542.93346875,"end":546.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":546.74721875,"end":550.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":550.6115937500001,"end":553.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":553.4297187500001,"end":555.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":556.18034375,"end":557.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":558.2222187500001,"end":567.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":567.7903437500001,"end":568.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.81971875,"end":575.6709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.31221875,"end":578.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.2990937500001,"end":581.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.9484687500001,"end":584.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.44596875,"end":609.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.2647187499999,"end":615.3103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":610.5009687500001,"end":610.8047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":615.6140937499999,"end":620.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":620.9297187500001,"end":624.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":624.11909375,"end":625.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.76034375,"end":630.24471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.847,"end":30.773,"text":"謝謝主席我們先請部長請陳部長委員好部長好我想先謝謝昨天部長特地到我們高雄我們高鐵現在也進步很多部長什麼時候高雄到台北的高鐵直達不是我是說直達車"},{"start":33.621,"end":60.342,"text":"大概2月2號是不是很像2月2號所以2月下個月下個月就可以有高雄到高鐵對會有直達車會有直達車直接就沒停台中了總共有4班沒有中停台中直接到高雄直接台北高雄所以這個是對我們高雄市很好的不中停台中但是有到台南跟高雄所以對台南跟高雄的鄉親來說是相當好的"},{"start":62.392,"end":78.541,"text":"直達台南跟高雄2月2號開始調整那也快了吧所以下禮拜我們就看得到了希望說這個可以跟大家公布一下這對我們高雄跟台南都是很好的事情我想這個對"},{"start":80.714,"end":101.913,"text":"我們會特別的歡迎啦所以這個希望說能夠再宣傳一下讓我們大家知道好那其實針對剛剛林國成委員所提到的我有一點不一樣的意見也希望說跟大家分享事實上台灣進步很多我們應該好的要鼓勵當然我們不好的要檢討"},{"start":103.4,"end":128.794,"text":"所以你看台灣現在的高評 台灣的經濟GDP其實都進步很多我們應該往好的方向去看去加強 誇獎我們台灣進步的地方那當然其實我們也希望說不管是行政院還是我們交通部 觀光署等等的相關的單位事實上台灣當然存在著貧富差距的問題那應該怎麼樣去幫助弱勢"},{"start":130.542,"end":158.983,"text":"那把這個弱勢再提升我想這個部分是我們做不夠要再繼續加強的那就拿觀光來講就是說那個觀光署長可以一起就拿觀光來講就是說我們以桃園機場跟高雄機場你可以看到其實桃園機場幾乎都飽和啦那我們如果說觀光署的角度用這個二線機場的宣傳所以你可以看到那個"},{"start":162.839,"end":185.245,"text":"其他韓國 韓國其實他們我覺得他們有很多東西可以參考著我們看怎麼樣去做因為觀光公社其實很多元 很活潑你包括到各地去分散 比如說他們還強化他們的二線城市的行銷包括金海 青州 大邱等那你再看那個"},{"start":189.151,"end":214.743,"text":"這個除了這個機場之外你可以看到他們所辦的在高雄所辦的活動高雄所辦的活動你看他們在高雄舉辦下酒祭就是推廣韓國的飲食文化那包括文化大使到我們那個展覽到我們的高雄的博鱷那包括我們其實有很多他們到高雄去也會推很多這個"},{"start":216.642,"end":236.423,"text":"釜山、大邱、光州、青山南北道等所以他們其實這個韓國觀光公司我特別去參觀了一下我那個去參觀的照片我還特別去參觀了一下他們的觀光公司所辦的活動其實真的是很多元"},{"start":238.005,"end":262.896,"text":"所以我在建議說觀光署事實上我們從觀光局變成觀光署當時崑澤委員跟我們交通委員外的委員也花了很大的力氣希望把觀光局變成觀光署就是提高格局包括人事權包括經費權都能夠提高格局但是呢我們覺得提高之後的變化現在讓我們感受沒那麼大"},{"start":263.84,"end":288.5,"text":"就是那個觀光局跟觀光署之間的變化事實上他可以多做很多的事情那這個觀光公社的概念我希望說觀光署可以再了解一下思考一下那再來就是飛機飛機事實上我們也希望說這個看起來不見得是觀光署在處理但是呢其實這都跟觀光有很大的關係"},{"start":290.523,"end":312.832,"text":"我記得之前兩位我們的部長跟署長都還不再指的前任的啦當時我一直在說布拉格希望能夠直飛這是桃園機場飛布拉格當時的部長跟署長都說不可能都說不可能但是我一直覺得東歐的市場"},{"start":314.362,"end":336.911,"text":"其實現在東歐因為他跟台灣有很不一樣的感情啦就他們也接受過共產主義的那個蹂躪然後呢他們現在變成民主國家之後他們也在發展經濟那他們對台灣的高科技台積電跟台灣的經濟的發展又滿嚮往的"},{"start":339.935,"end":368.834,"text":"所以現在東歐其實對台灣的重視程度我覺得我去東歐國會考察他們真的非常非常的友善所以當時我就判斷說布拉格應該是很有機會那後來開飛之後部長也知道成績大概都是九成以上所以這個載客率很高那我們觀光署現在有設辦事處的在歐洲就是"},{"start":369.901,"end":371.765,"text":"有哪幾個國家 部長知道嗎"},{"start":375.99,"end":404.756,"text":"法蘭克福跟倫敦都有那剛剛委員特別提到的那個捷克那我們法蘭克福辦事處呢3月份的大旅展結束之後就會往東歐走了也看到了我們這次的直航很感謝委員的一直持續的支持跟那個我們現在看到的就是東我想到的是東歐北中東南都要去思考了你看新宇其實他們聽到芬蘭他們"},{"start":406.894,"end":433.463,"text":"那個意願好像蠻高的啦這個很多人批評說我們派林昶佐去做芬蘭的大使好像是不是專業結果呢我看到一個新聞是林昶佐在芬蘭呢就脫下他的西裝閃靈到了那邊他就直接演唱了因為芬蘭是重金屬國家所以啊派他去當大使正好是用文化去做結合"},{"start":435.022,"end":462.281,"text":"所以現在航權又已經簽了對不對是不是有必要我們去努力在北歐 瑞士我們航權也已經很早就有了所以我在思考就是說是不是我們觀光署就是除了在英法德有我們的辦事處之外就北歐 中歐 東歐等等的是不是可以做一個思考"},{"start":463.614,"end":490.743,"text":"那也就是說在其他的國家裡面就是不同的國度我希望說我們都用這樣子的一個想法主動出局就類似包括韓國公社他們的這些做法那如何去推動台灣的我是一個想法就是說如果觀光署我們在世界各國都有我們的辦事處嘛那能夠類似比如說好2025的下九季這個他們韓國的公社到我們高雄來辦"},{"start":492.043,"end":498.433,"text":"其實台灣的美食文化可以說是世界應該是數一數二的包括"},{"start":499.352,"end":526.277,"text":"珍珠奶茶 包括小籠包 包括滷肉飯他們現在外國人說滷肉飯 都常常說滷肉飯小籠包也常常說小籠包這表示說 我們的名字已經燙到世界了珍珠奶茶 他們不是叫珍珠奶茶 他們叫芭芭茶但是 就是說像這樣子我們是不是可以主動到全世界各國去把我們台灣的因為你先讓他有體驗嘛 署長不是很重視體驗的活動嗎"},{"start":528.044,"end":546.018,"text":"是 跟委員報告剛剛委員特別提到的那個直航我覺得光屬未來的重點會跟著我們的直航走就是讓那個地方因為交通要先解決嘛所以我們就辦活動國人或者是當地人才有機會來到台灣這是第一個第二個 台灣的美食確實是引起世界的關注"},{"start":546.798,"end":575.269,"text":"我來的這六個多月基本上有很多國外的單位都是想跟台灣的這個美食做合作那這件事情確實也是屬於重中之重那這塊像我們今年今年上半年的越南會帶我們的版德就是越南團來吃台灣的版德這種主題型的方式其實也會持續性的推出以上跟委員報告沒事 我是簡單的就是說是我們其實觀光署的目的當時其實我還有一個"},{"start":576.417,"end":578.201,"text":"口號我覺得還蠻不錯的就是"},{"start":579.806,"end":606.383,"text":"處處都是打卡點步步都是觀光部那我也要希望說我們部長跟署長我這種感覺還沒有出來是不是能夠跟包括文化包括各部會其實就是說我們台灣的觀光要如何能夠推到全世界就像韓國的演唱會跟我們高雄的演唱會經濟這樣子一個方式能夠提高這個格局的思考"},{"start":607.303,"end":628.469,"text":"時間的關係先提到這裡下次再補充好 那希望說這個部分觀光署可以用一個不同的格局去做思考好不好可以小補充一下剛剛委員提到的那個北歐的部分是由我們駐倫敦代表處去參加旅展主要的市場就是北歐市場謝謝那盡快啦盡快把這個飛機航線把它完成好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167317","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167317","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88356e63b4f1d89ca55ca6c4b86dd6b28f9da39f225449bb571e7a2a83f9da65db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林憶君","委員發言時間":"10:32:49 - 10:42:16","影片長度":"00:09:27","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「面對全球經貿變局挑戰，如何協輔僑臺商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:32:49+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:42:16+08:00","duration":567,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":3.9290937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.05971875,"end":7.3209687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.29971875,"end":21.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.22596875,"end":137.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.01784375,"end":170.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.60221875000002,"end":152.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.82284375,"end":175.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.19346875000002,"end":201.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.71596875,"end":180.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.17096875000001,"end":184.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.49159375000002,"end":184.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.68534375000002,"end":187.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.80721875,"end":190.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.51596875,"end":190.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.97409375,"end":219.42284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.07284375,"end":223.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.81471875000003,"end":223.65846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.43909375,"end":241.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.95721875,"end":229.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.81784375,"end":229.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.83471875,"end":229.95284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.95284375000003,"end":230.10471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.77409375000002,"end":239.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.00159375,"end":248.51534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.51534375000003,"end":302.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.61221875,"end":250.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.92409375000003,"end":252.78471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.54409375000003,"end":254.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.02596875,"end":302.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.40971875,"end":306.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.18971875,"end":308.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.38346875,"end":311.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.23534375,"end":315.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.09596875,"end":314.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.98596875000004,"end":316.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.62721875,"end":315.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.04909375,"end":316.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.08284375,"end":317.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.83784375000005,"end":325.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.01409375000003,"end":324.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.19971875000005,"end":337.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.10159375,"end":331.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.99534375,"end":360.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.04284375000003,"end":356.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.02096875,"end":386.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.67096875000004,"end":396.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.95721875000004,"end":391.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.35721875,"end":397.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.40346875,"end":397.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.82534375,"end":400.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.45346875,"end":402.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.32596875,"end":458.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.55846875000003,"end":468.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.29096875000005,"end":513.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.12784375,"end":525.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.7040937500001,"end":527.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":527.22284375,"end":565.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.00596875,"end":567.6553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.98034375,"end":567.6384687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.67,"end":5.154,"text":"謝謝主席有請衛福部次長請次長委員好"},{"start":8.365,"end":29.13,"text":"市長好 首先我本席先繼續追問有關食藥署事後緊急病要轉類為只是用藥的去年12月19號的時候根據食藥署回覆本席辦公室表示已經在114年3月4月的時候分別都召開了專家會議必於12月再次召開會議討論這個事辦計畫供應的事法性還有探討然後經過這些專家討論認為"},{"start":36.092,"end":40.073,"text":"增進緊急事後併用藥的可進性這些都還要再進一步的研議然後預計115年將持續召開會議取得各界的共識但是我想這個事情就是連我們最友好的日本鄰近的國家也都在114年8月29號專家會議中正式決議將緊急事後併用藥由處方藥轉類為指示用藥批准事後併用藥可以非處方用藥方式的販賣"},{"start":66.658,"end":69.52,"text":"開放女性可以就直接在藥局直接購買是先進醫藥國家中最後一個轉類為止是用藥的國家那為什麼衛福部的政策食藥署105年到現在已經10年了"},{"start":83.609,"end":95.414,"text":"一直在開會分別在召開緊急事後必應要轉為只是用藥的可行性的專家的會議還有緊急事後必應要用藥安全及可進行的事辦分享會議一直到現在都已經10年了為什麼沒有辦法執行"},{"start":101.556,"end":106.119,"text":"而且還沒有取得共識是因為開放緊急事後病藥轉類為指示用藥是不是會影響某些特定的團體的利益呢所以不願意開放呢因為我想也在民調中我也去看過民調的表示就是社會團體還有女性在這民調上面都顯示七八成是完全贊成同意的"},{"start":125.391,"end":130.273,"text":"那為什麼衛福部食藥署到現在還不願意開放呢那哪時候要開放呢哪時候要開完專家會議呢到底要拖到什麼時候才可以我們台灣跟國際接軌包委員那這個部分因為它涉及的廣泛比較廣泛所以上次12月開過會之後目前是希望說可以委辦計畫就是來做這個可進行的一個事辦計畫"},{"start":154.762,"end":169.575,"text":"這個部分當然就是主要這邊會牽涉到兒少團體家長團體 婦女團體還有醫界 藥界這邊其實他們都有不同的聲音那另外剛剛委員這邊講到日本的部分日本他應該是把它列為虛指導藥品"},{"start":171.136,"end":189.075,"text":"虛指導 呃不是不是處方藥啦應該是虛指導藥品的部分對 虛指導藥品就是當然不是處方藥啊現在就是處方藥要轉類成指示用藥嘛對對對對不對 讓大家方便要便民嘛大家可以到藥局來購買嘛對啊你現在還是處方藥那就沒有用了啊因為現在先進的國家都已經把它轉類成指示用藥"},{"start":190.376,"end":193.718,"text":"已經有88個國家都這樣那請問一下台灣的醫療一直說要國際接軌一直要進步為什麼這一個政策就可以這樣耽誤了10年呢主要這邊似乎還有一些配套措施需要一些發展比如說他必須要記錄這些每個個案如果未來到只是用要有記錄第二個就是那個場域規劃因為有些是未成年那個隱私的問題"},{"start":218.509,"end":232.1,"text":"沒關係這是整個是配套的措施這個沒有關係這個就是事辦計畫裡面的細節但是好既然我們要事辦計畫跟日本一樣日本也是這樣一步一步的推行的我也知道但是如果說我們現在就是要事辦計畫到底什麼時候要事辦計畫從去年講到現在要事辦計畫到現在都還沒有那請問一下什麼時候要事辦計畫什麼時候還要再召開專家會議"},{"start":242.388,"end":247.313,"text":"主要是今年115年我目前知道115年我們會有一個委辦計劃來做那要盡快不要再讓我們再等10年喔是好謝謝那我再繼續請教一下次長美國商務部在15日的時候有達成貿易的協定就是將美國的商品關稅稅率降低15%看起來其實是有助於台灣醫療的產業的外銷的發展"},{"start":268.832,"end":272.593,"text":"但最主要的問題是台灣現在的經濟規模比較小整個的製藥上面的藥廠的量人其實是普遍的不足的所以我們的製藥業其實整個就是為了零關稅其實大部分都想要把藥品外銷到美國去現在你也知道台灣現在幾乎都在缺藥的情況下"},{"start":290.04,"end":294.902,"text":"如果是這個情況的話衛福部要如何保證國內的製藥產業在希望政府的協助擴大外銷的同時又可以保障我們國內的藥品供給無虞呢目前應該是藥品美國有關藥品部應該還沒有有稅"},{"start":312.307,"end":331.058,"text":"現在是零關稅嘛但是大家都想要過去嘛這樣的話是不是有大家他們有想要組成一個製藥國家隊呢但是如果都過去的話台灣在缺藥的情況下那我們是不是都沒有我們現在其實很多原廠藥原廠藥他們因為有其他學名藥所以沒有嘛"},{"start":331.158,"end":334.82,"text":"所以現在我們是國內市上有相當多的學名藥可以來補這一塊我説的是缺藥的品項有些缺藥品項就是因為國外原廠藥已經沒有了沒有的情況下我們現在這些藥可能只有那個原廠藥但是台灣開始要來輔導這些國內的製藥業去成為一個就是這個藥的學名藥要開始開發但是才能因應這些缺藥的情況"},{"start":361.615,"end":386.595,"text":"所以我們現在就是希望說能夠就是針對未來有可能缺藥的部分要強化預警另外也要提升我們的儲備量還有就是在地製造我們希望說讓我們國內的藥廠可以增加製造學名藥這個部分最後就是希望能夠確保藥價就不要砍太低這個我們會跟健保署這邊一起來配合"},{"start":386.915,"end":400.031,"text":"是是 藥價是千萬不能砍太低現在真的是都沒有藥可以救命了所以希望那個次長可以多多幫忙一下好不好好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 那接下來我請副委員長請副委員長"},{"start":407.329,"end":411.352,"text":"委員好副委員長你知道花東地區其實在地的特產的商品中其實很多是天然而且是無毒的還有原名特色的產品都是非常文明的像我的舉例就是像薄皮辣椒啦花蓮薯啦麻薯還有瑞穗香午後的蜜香紅茶還有咖啡最主要還有優質的有機米文旦柴魚片這些還有很多原住民手工的文創的藝品都是非常有當地特色的然後"},{"start":437.629,"end":441.674,"text":"大家也知道僑委會這幾年都是有舉辦台灣觀光產業商機的參訪團所以僑委會邀集了全球六大洲的僑台商回到台灣來參與都希望藉著這樣國際網路好協助拓展台灣的觀光產業的全球版圖"},{"start":458.672,"end":461.093,"text":"那我想請教委員長就是當時僑委會有沒有帶著這些僑胞企業去過花東呢有沒有爭過對花東的有機農業舉辦過專屬的媒合呢報告委員有的那也很高興跟您分享因為去年的這個2025台灣觀光產業商機參訪團我們其實就是拉到花蓮去也在花蓮的這個原住民的文化館"},{"start":481.38,"end":485.961,"text":"有辦活動跟座談會那那一場呢因為我自己親自有參加所以我知道現場的單位呢其實是從宜蘭縣政府花蓮縣政府到台東縣政府還有我們所有的國家公園的管理處那以及農業部都有代表參加那所以我們媒合了地方政府還有中央部會以及國家公園的觀光資源我們介紹給這個"},{"start":505.566,"end":513.495,"text":"觀光產業來自全世界的業者那希望他們能夠多多來推廣我們花東充滿這個觀光商機的這個產業天然的景色還有我們有很多有機的農業漁業有一些非常好的精緻的農漁產品都很適合在這個觀光旅遊的業務上面來做推廣"},{"start":527.27,"end":532.032,"text":"好 謝謝希望以後有更多的機會因為我們花東地區其實很多小籠與創作家其實都缺乏外銷的通路而橋台商在海外都是擁有很多商店還有物流網有的還經營連鎖的餐飲店所以我們花東其實種植很好的單生紅藜這些都是很好的養生食材所以希望這個是橋委會的業務之一希望能夠讓可以像橋台商也可以代理花東的優質產品"},{"start":555.863,"end":557.285,"text":"然後也可以幫忙橋箱轉型可以幫忙台東和花蓮在台灣花蓮這整個的經濟希望能夠創造雙贏好嗎謝謝謝謝委員我們全力來做謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167316","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167316","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a8839ce9bfea741ec9852fd623850d83d5b9da39f225449bb571e7a2a83f9da65db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"10:30:08 - 10:41:56","影片長度":"00:11:48","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:30:08+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:41:56+08:00","duration":708,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.52034375,"end":3.6590937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.6590937500000003,"end":3.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.74721875,"end":7.3209687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.3209687500000005,"end":7.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.87784375,"end":14.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.442218750000002,"end":14.610968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.89784375,"end":15.167843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.167843750000003,"end":23.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.26784375,"end":37.594718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.97596875,"end":29.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.345968750000004,"end":37.510343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":37.594718750000006,"end":50.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.15471875,"end":45.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.86284375,"end":50.588468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.50409375,"end":57.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.59159375,"end":57.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.844718750000006,"end":59.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":59.734718750000006,"end":62.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.126593750000005,"end":66.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.60721875,"end":65.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.65784375,"end":67.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":67.05846875,"end":79.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.71471875,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.88346875,"end":82.33034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.05596875,"end":99.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.39096875000001,"end":116.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.82284375,"end":116.92409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.36284375000001,"end":126.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.35721875,"end":126.67784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.49221875,"end":127.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.33159375,"end":130.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.77846875,"end":131.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":130.87971875,"end":131.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.41534375,"end":137.68034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.68034375000002,"end":177.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.13409375,"end":177.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.23534375,"end":179.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.78346875,"end":194.16096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.55471875,"end":185.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.45721875,"end":188.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.04284375,"end":194.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.39721875,"end":199.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.05471875,"end":199.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.35846875000001,"end":209.41596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.99409375000002,"end":224.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.59096875,"end":233.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.53909375,"end":237.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.42846875,"end":258.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.58221875,"end":252.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":258.20159375000003,"end":265.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.74909375000004,"end":266.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.57159375000003,"end":270.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.47409375,"end":269.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.16596875,"end":270.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":270.94221875,"end":272.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.15284375000005,"end":275.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":276.05534375,"end":279.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.49784375,"end":284.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.02034375,"end":284.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":285.75846875,"end":288.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":288.81284375,"end":291.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.96846875,"end":292.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.17096875000004,"end":292.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.22159375,"end":292.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.32284375,"end":292.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.33971875000003,"end":292.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.40721875,"end":292.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.44096875,"end":292.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.82909375,"end":305.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":305.38409375000003,"end":315.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.43721875,"end":338.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.08784375000005,"end":338.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":338.23971875,"end":342.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":342.96471875000003,"end":343.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":344.19659375000003,"end":358.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":358.99596875000003,"end":366.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":367.39971875000003,"end":377.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.91284375000004,"end":400.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":400.72784375000003,"end":408.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.42284375,"end":408.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":408.59159375,"end":411.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":412.16909375,"end":418.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":419.13846875,"end":424.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":424.52159375,"end":426.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":426.25971875000005,"end":427.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":427.72784375000003,"end":428.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":429.07784375,"end":432.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":432.90846875000005,"end":435.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.24971875000006,"end":439.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":439.60784375000003,"end":442.22346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":442.51034375,"end":446.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":447.53909375,"end":452.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.78721875,"end":453.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":453.00659375000004,"end":455.65596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":456.02721875000003,"end":460.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.54971875,"end":460.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.60034375000004,"end":460.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":460.63409375000003,"end":466.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":467.01284375000006,"end":467.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.17284375,"end":469.18971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":469.18971875000005,"end":469.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.59471875,"end":469.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":469.62846875,"end":469.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.76346875,"end":470.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.34971875,"end":516.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":516.40596875,"end":535.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.08659375,"end":535.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":535.47471875,"end":548.6709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":548.87346875,"end":576.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":576.58221875,"end":577.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":578.2865937500001,"end":585.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":586.23471875,"end":602.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":603.2278437500001,"end":615.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":616.35659375,"end":619.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":619.1240937499999,"end":631.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":630.41346875,"end":630.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":631.6115937500001,"end":631.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":631.6453437499999,"end":632.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":632.0334687500001,"end":660.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.6640937500001,"end":646.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.11534375,"end":648.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":660.50159375,"end":662.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":662.22284375,"end":672.1453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":662.61096875,"end":663.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":672.71909375,"end":673.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.9172187500001,"end":674.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":674.15346875,"end":674.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":674.32221875,"end":674.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":674.96346875,"end":689.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":675.4865937500001,"end":675.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":681.6459687500001,"end":682.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.03409375,"end":683.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":686.2865937500001,"end":686.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":689.03721875,"end":699.1453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.33971875,"end":697.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":699.1453437499999,"end":701.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":699.44909375,"end":699.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":699.61784375,"end":700.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":703.11096875,"end":706.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.90346875,"end":709.42221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.543,"end":3.304,"text":"好謝謝主席那請問石部長要請石部長都委員好好石部長那之前在總質詢的時候有跟院長還有衛福部說拜託檢討一下我們桃園沿海醫療量能的問題這部分部長有"},{"start":22.449,"end":36.464,"text":"知道這件事嗎有有有就是委員一直在關心這個我們新屋分店桃園新屋分店那個一直在行政院審查當中應該快要有結果了我們在做最後的計畫修訂"},{"start":37.885,"end":60.561,"text":"因為那時候講沿海醫療量能的問題因為我們說像我們全台灣最大的三個工業區一個是張濱、雲林還有一個就是我們桃園沿海的觀音工業區那觀音工業區裡面它包含桃科工業區、環科工業區、大唐工業區還有旁邊的大園工業區那據我們了解我們看張濱工業區它裡面"},{"start":63.203,"end":79.136,"text":"有一個區域教學醫院就是我們彰化秀傳醫院那在雲林工業區裡面有一個地區醫院是我們雲林長根醫院所以我們發現我們為什麼說要討論這沿海醫療量呢你看我們這個北部最大的工業區觀音工業區那這裡面"},{"start":83.486,"end":98.895,"text":"包含我剛剛講的那麼多個工業區都在裡面可是這裡面完全都沒有醫療院所然後也沒有急診所以這部分部長有幫我們了解有沒有什麼要怎麼樣去做改善的地方"},{"start":99.977,"end":114.442,"text":"這個我們會再找這個桃園衛生局我們來討論看看因為這個這個桃園的副市長王副市長他很有想法那他的想法也很不錯我們會跟他來討論之後來協助對因為"},{"start":117.443,"end":129.117,"text":"他們有討論過就是市府可能規劃要市立醫院然後在觀音成立一個分院可是成立分院他可能是會設門診但是一樣"},{"start":132.441,"end":158.804,"text":"可能因為他說因為他本身資源的問題他沒有辦法去做這個急診對 跟委員說明這個王副市長很特別也跟我提到這個事情那他的想法也蠻務實的就是說你去弄一個醫院那但是呢這個醫院現在光是這個找人啦這個開病床這個問題啦那這個地方的主要任務就是向UCC啦就是向我們現在所提供的這個"},{"start":160.345,"end":176.473,"text":"及輕症或者是重症的初步處理然後就後送所以大概會朝這個方向來設計然後我們來跟衛生局來討論看看如果需要我們協助的部分我們會全力來協助"},{"start":177.493,"end":198.811,"text":"對 因為我們在講最主要除了它本身因為我們發現大園跟觀音完全都沒有急診便房然後它裡面除了一般它裡面居住的人口之外其實它現在人口一直在成長最主要每天到工業區上班的人數也是非常非常的多"},{"start":199.471,"end":224.001,"text":"那如果說成立這個觀音分院是不是有機會衛福部可以把他納入緊急醫療網的部分來加強他急診這個方面就是他的功能像我們現在做的UCC像我們UCC是做假日嘛然後再看他當時候因為有時候夜間不見得需要但是平常因為上班時間人比較多那萬一有什麼狀況的時候可以就近除的處理好 那這部分"},{"start":225.462,"end":244.542,"text":"弱勢力醫院觀音草大分院成立之後輸衛福部我希望說請他們送計畫跟衛福部討論納入緊急醫療網我們之前是對於為了避免妨礙到分級醫療政策的推動所以一般的醫院的所謂的院外門診部已經是禁止不設"},{"start":245.163,"end":270.286,"text":"但是公立醫院如果是基於他的公共任務需要的話呢那麼我們可以專案來審查所以我們會請這個衛生局提出這個整個規劃之後我們來協助討論好那就請部長幫忙希望我們這個市立醫院觀音草大分院成立之後希望衛福部把他納入這個方向我很支持好希望把他納入我們就有機會在那邊設急診病房是"},{"start":271.027,"end":284.748,"text":"好 那剛剛部長也知道也有討論到就是我們因為剛前面有提到我們觀音不是 我們部桃新屋分院綜合醫療大樓的擴建計畫那這部分"},{"start":286.019,"end":303.209,"text":"現在部長你掌握的情形到哪裡這個在做最後的修訂了啦應該也快了應該也快了對 據我們了解好像說我們查詢我們在今年1月15號查詢說國發會已經把他的審議意見函附給行政院了對對對"},{"start":304.15,"end":315.518,"text":"而且他們也說請行政院協助建樹合併表示他們也認同這個綜合醫療大樓部桃新屋分院擴建計畫應該要馬上進行所以這部分請部長再幫我們多編連因為這關係到我們大園觀音新屋還有陽梅整個周邊因為這"},{"start":325.186,"end":343.284,"text":"醫療資源真的匱乏那所以我們把計畫在部桃新屋分院這擴建計畫提升我們的醫療量能提升他的醫療資源好這個我們的責任好這部分也請我們部長多幫忙那還有這個之前我們有提到我們目前真的"},{"start":344.244,"end":365.084,"text":"我們這個醫事放射師還有護理師人力不足像今天大家討論我們春節急診還有我們三班戶病比的問題所以我們了解其實現在最擔心的就是我們護理師人力不足還有醫事放射師人力不足那這部分之前也跟部長來討論過那"},{"start":367.466,"end":377.3,"text":"部長後來你有了解我們各縣市醫事放射師人力的缺口的情形部長這部分有沒有掌握是不是很缺啊"},{"start":378.65,"end":400.719,"text":"我想醫事司昨天才跟醫事放射師團體大家有做過一些討論了解他們所面臨到的職業困境健保也在協助陳署長也親自跟他們談過所以我們未來會有一些新的改善方案"},{"start":401.219,"end":428.377,"text":"對 據我們了解其實北部你看連續兩年我們查了一下連續兩年這放射師招募都不足那中部我看很多教學醫院居然高達大概有五成的缺口所以這個直接其實影響到我們民眾的醫療的權益你像他們排這個CT電腦斷層還有MRI 實證照影常常都要"},{"start":429.37,"end":442.998,"text":"兩三個月甚至要到半年所以這我覺得這個人力的缺口已經嚴重影響到我們民眾醫療治療的權益那然後我們也了解看我們針對台灣這幾年來應屆畢業生"},{"start":448.001,"end":464.393,"text":"這個醫事放射師尤其我們查了一下像中山醫學大學他應屆畢業生我們看到這幾年我看這幾年他大概高達500人次都跑到新加坡去不知道部長針對這部分的了解有掌握到這個狀況嗎為什麼會有這樣的情形"},{"start":471.436,"end":495.962,"text":"我補充這段是昨天在跟相關同仁在做一個瞭解的時候他們其實是表示是我們台灣訓練出來的數字很好然後新加坡開出來的薪資比較高所以對新手上路剛畢業的人而言他是一個吸力那同時我們台灣這邊面臨到的困境就是我必須把我們自己的吸力跟推力減少推力增加吸引力所以昨天在討論的過程當中"},{"start":497.202,"end":516.074,"text":"就包括了是我們的那個醫療機構設置這邊是不是能夠從我們的平靜的條文做一些改善不是再從病床數這邊然後另外一個心智的保障的部分昨天也大概有初步的一個了解所以這邊的話我們部裡面就是爭據這些的一個結論我們會再做政策的調整以上"},{"start":516.414,"end":531.142,"text":"所以剛剛有提到所以這當然我們很欣慰說我們訓練出來的這些醫事人員很優秀可是也很可悲我們花了那麼多錢教育出來優秀的人才結果全部跑到國外去被他高薪"},{"start":531.722,"end":545.111,"text":"去挖角你看中山大學這幾年就500人次當然我們也了解因為他的薪水月薪大概12萬到15萬所以我們才會一直講說我們是不是在很多制度面應該要好好去檢討我們這些護理師人員還有"},{"start":549.573,"end":577.505,"text":"這個醫事放射師人員他說他們低薪高工時業務量大那當然我們最近很多的福利做得很好像乳癌年輕化乳癌年輕化他去做這個篩檢但是變成我們這些放射師他的工作量能就變得更大所以我們才會提出像我們健保總額跟公務預算我們現在發現加起來超過一兆"},{"start":578.365,"end":602.551,"text":"可是他們認為並沒有實質回饋在他們的身上所以我們才會提出像我們護理師的達標獎勵金還有夜班津貼還有我們醫事放射師的放射技術服務費是不是可以直接納入他們的薪資這部分才能實質回饋到他們的身上像護理師跟醫事"},{"start":603.351,"end":631.281,"text":"放射師情形都是一樣啊是不是應該實質回饋到他們薪資身上不然這麼多優秀的護理師放射師人員好不容易我們培養起來全部外流到國外去那部長這部分是不是應該要好好的來討論解決好謝謝委員的提醒我們會特別關注在醫院裡面的這一些醫事人員的薪資還有他的工作條件我們會來討論一些方案來協助提升"},{"start":631.981,"end":659.807,"text":"因為這個醫事放射師全聯會他們也有研議一些試辦計畫跟他放射服務費的增加與計算公式那在這邊我是不是可以等一下會後我給部長你們拿回去研議一下再跟他們討論一下因為我們真的很擔心這些人才的外流以及嚴重影響到我們台灣的醫療品質那像這個部分回去研議大概三個月內可以回覆嗎"},{"start":660.523,"end":689.992,"text":"三個月了好那還有像我之前有提出護理師的達標獎勵金跟月班津貼一樣納入護理人員的薪資那這部分上次有提過那還沒有回覆我們會來這個調查一下清查一下盤點一下這個執行的情形因為那些本來就是要規定要給護理人員的那一個月內可以回覆處理情形嗎那個一個月我們查一下"},{"start":690.532,"end":700.425,"text":"好那這部分就拜託部長為了台灣的醫療品質和民眾的權益那拜託部長那這個資料就下給部長好謝謝謝謝圖權級委員發言那本席宣告"}]}},{"id":"17242","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17242","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2dd600d02e1221ac874d5c837147ce0a12e692bdb9a1e4797721eb142013e5c26e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「面對全球經貿變局挑戰，如何協輔僑臺商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-29","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-29T08:36:18+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:50:00+08:00","duration":8022,"影片長度":"02:13:42","委員發言時間":"08:36:18 - 10:50:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1574.4347187500002,"end":1577.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1581.4715937500002,"end":1585.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1585.03221875,"end":1586.1122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1586.56784375,"end":1592.1365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1592.5415937500002,"end":1602.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1592.62596875,"end":1593.1153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1602.9872187500002,"end":1606.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1606.10909375,"end":1609.0453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1609.4503437500002,"end":1610.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1610.9690937500002,"end":1614.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1615.0190937500001,"end":1618.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1618.36034375,"end":1619.9972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1620.18284375,"end":1622.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1623.3384687500002,"end":1627.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1628.1815937500003,"end":1630.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1631.1347187500003,"end":1634.3578437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1634.52659375,"end":1635.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1635.80909375,"end":1641.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1641.4959687500002,"end":1645.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1645.49534375,"end":1647.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1647.8409687500002,"end":1651.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1652.2115937500002,"end":1654.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1655.06346875,"end":1658.2697187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1659.0459687500002,"end":1662.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1662.8428437500002,"end":1667.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1667.3315937500001,"end":1669.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1669.4409687500001,"end":1672.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1672.63034375,"end":1676.6972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1677.0684687500002,"end":1680.0384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1682.9915937500002,"end":1683.1097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1683.1097187500002,"end":1683.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1683.19409375,"end":1683.4134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1683.4134687500002,"end":1685.8265937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1686.0459687500002,"end":1691.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1691.8509687500002,"end":1693.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1693.72409375,"end":1694.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1694.8378437500003,"end":1697.3015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1697.5884687500002,"end":1700.8453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1702.6509687500002,"end":1709.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1711.4090937500002,"end":1716.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1718.5640937500002,"end":1721.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1722.29346875,"end":1725.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1726.5290937500001,"end":1728.8240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1729.9547187500002,"end":1732.3847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1734.5447187500001,"end":1737.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1737.7847187500001,"end":1740.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1740.9572187500003,"end":1743.3534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1744.50096875,"end":1748.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1748.9728437500003,"end":1754.4234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1755.2334687500002,"end":1759.6040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1761.3422187500003,"end":1764.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1766.4890937500002,"end":1770.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1774.1165937500002,"end":1779.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1780.7147187500002,"end":1790.5359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1803.0403437500001,"end":1806.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1807.2928437500002,"end":1814.1947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1814.2115937500002,"end":1819.7803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1820.28659375,"end":1859.3184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1859.80784375,"end":1863.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1866.1022187500002,"end":1872.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1874.9615937500002,"end":1898.6034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1899.2278437500001,"end":1912.9472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1913.8584687500002,"end":1919.5453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1919.9672187500003,"end":1956.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1957.4634687500002,"end":1969.3265937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1969.5965937500002,"end":1976.1609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1976.6334687500002,"end":1983.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1983.5353437500003,"end":1988.5978437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1988.6484687500001,"end":1994.5715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1995.0103437500002,"end":2001.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2001.42284375,"end":2002.6547187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2003.0934687500003,"end":2009.1515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2010.3328437500002,"end":2011.9190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2012.6278437500002,"end":2018.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2019.0572187500002,"end":2029.0472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2030.1947187500002,"end":2035.8478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2036.4890937500002,"end":2044.3697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2044.9434687500002,"end":2056.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2057.24534375,"end":2064.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2064.7040937500005,"end":2072.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2072.50034375,"end":2077.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2078.2547187500004,"end":2085.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2085.9159687500005,"end":2094.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2097.50909375,"end":2107.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2108.19096875,"end":2113.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2113.65846875,"end":2116.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2117.40471875,"end":2134.0772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2134.34721875,"end":2144.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2144.65784375,"end":2152.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2152.2684687500005,"end":2156.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2157.3984687500006,"end":2170.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2171.23596875,"end":2178.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2179.58909375,"end":2199.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2200.39596875,"end":2214.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2214.90846875,"end":2226.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2227.3622187500005,"end":2234.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2234.9053437500006,"end":2241.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2241.60471875,"end":2262.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2262.95159375,"end":2270.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2271.38909375,"end":2286.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2286.1884687500005,"end":2290.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2290.3397187500004,"end":2300.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2301.7978437500005,"end":2339.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2339.7665937500005,"end":2340.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2340.57659375,"end":2343.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2344.3397187500004,"end":2350.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2350.93784375,"end":2380.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2380.3340937500006,"end":2387.3203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2388.11346875,"end":2408.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2410.5234687500006,"end":2417.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2418.25221875,"end":2428.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2429.33909375,"end":2433.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2434.1315937500003,"end":2449.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2451.17534375,"end":2477.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2479.13721875,"end":2479.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2480.4872187500005,"end":2487.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2488.51971875,"end":2490.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2491.1522187500004,"end":2491.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2492.1309687500006,"end":2492.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2493.1434687500005,"end":2496.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2496.4678437500006,"end":2502.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2502.4247187500005,"end":2509.4278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2509.5965937500005,"end":2515.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2515.3172187500004,"end":2526.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2526.3365937500002,"end":2534.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2535.3984687500006,"end":2548.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2550.9909687500003,"end":2563.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2564.0859687500006,"end":2567.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2568.37221875,"end":2572.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2573.31659375,"end":2582.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2582.6990937500004,"end":2585.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2586.4453437500006,"end":2590.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2593.8028437500006,"end":2594.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2595.20346875,"end":2595.9122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2597.78534375,"end":2601.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2604.95721875,"end":2613.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2614.9978437500004,"end":2631.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2638.9265937500004,"end":2642.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2650.48596875,"end":2668.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2668.44096875,"end":2694.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2676.01784375,"end":2676.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2676.08534375,"end":2676.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2676.15284375,"end":2676.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2695.23846875,"end":2718.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2718.74534375,"end":2719.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2719.48784375,"end":2725.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2725.9678437500006,"end":2727.1659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2727.48659375,"end":2727.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2727.50346875,"end":2740.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2728.1784687500003,"end":2728.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2740.9190937500007,"end":2744.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2744.91846875,"end":2748.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2748.88409375,"end":2752.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2752.39409375,"end":2755.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2755.88721875,"end":2760.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2760.39284375,"end":2777.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2777.45346875,"end":2783.1065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2783.3428437500006,"end":2788.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2788.8103437500004,"end":2793.0459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2793.4678437500006,"end":2801.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2802.1922187500004,"end":2807.1872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2806.15784375,"end":2807.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2807.1872187500003,"end":2807.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2807.4403437500005,"end":2813.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2807.45721875,"end":2808.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2808.48659375,"end":2808.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2813.9034687500007,"end":2821.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2813.98784375,"end":2815.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2816.3672187500006,"end":2817.3965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2821.37909375,"end":2825.3278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2821.4297187500006,"end":2821.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2825.66534375,"end":2826.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2825.80034375,"end":2833.1240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2828.0447187500004,"end":2829.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2831.09909375,"end":2836.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2835.18284375,"end":2835.5878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2835.5878437500005,"end":2835.6384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2836.87034375,"end":2850.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2851.34909375,"end":2863.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2863.4822187500004,"end":2872.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2872.0378437500003,"end":2872.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2872.30784375,"end":2907.7284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2882.44971875,"end":2882.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2883.8672187500006,"end":2884.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2885.63909375,"end":2886.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2886.95534375,"end":2886.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2888.35596875,"end":2888.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2888.96346875,"end":2890.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2896.9453437500006,"end":2899.3584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2904.03284375,"end":2904.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2908.1334687500002,"end":2910.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2908.3865937500004,"end":2942.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2942.33909375,"end":2993.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2993.9597187500003,"end":3006.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3007.1559687500003,"end":3012.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3007.9659687500007,"end":3009.4678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3013.23096875,"end":3022.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3017.3990937500002,"end":3017.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3017.97284375,"end":3018.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3020.3184687500006,"end":3020.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3020.58846875,"end":3020.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3020.63909375,"end":3020.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3022.3097187500007,"end":3032.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3029.1778437500006,"end":3029.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3032.33346875,"end":3037.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3037.3115937500006,"end":3043.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3044.1628437500003,"end":3070.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3071.12909375,"end":3090.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3090.72096875,"end":3150.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3150.1715937500003,"end":3150.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3153.6647187500002,"end":3157.4109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3169.5272187500004,"end":3169.5440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3169.5440937500007,"end":3169.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3169.5778437500003,"end":3169.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3170.2528437500005,"end":3173.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3173.8134687500005,"end":3174.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3176.2940937500007,"end":3178.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3180.29346875,"end":3181.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3181.6434687500005,"end":3182.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3184.81596875,"end":3228.1847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3228.50534375,"end":3244.5197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3244.9922187500006,"end":3247.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3247.9453437500006,"end":3258.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3258.88034375,"end":3275.7722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3276.17721875,"end":3279.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3279.6534687500007,"end":3283.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3283.63596875,"end":3283.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3283.95659375,"end":3316.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3316.6603437500007,"end":3325.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3325.35096875,"end":3340.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3341.1122187500005,"end":3346.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3346.4615937500002,"end":3346.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3346.63034375,"end":3394.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3394.58909375,"end":3419.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3419.6990937500004,"end":3462.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3428.11971875,"end":3428.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3463.67534375,"end":3485.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3485.6803437500002,"end":3488.8190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3489.22409375,"end":3489.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3490.25346875,"end":3502.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3502.2009687500004,"end":3504.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3503.07846875,"end":3503.4834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3504.05721875,"end":3536.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3536.23784375,"end":3541.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3538.58346875,"end":3538.8028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3541.58721875,"end":3586.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3547.9490937500004,"end":3548.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3586.4747187500006,"end":3609.5428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3609.8972187500003,"end":3628.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3628.9490937500004,"end":3654.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3654.7340937500003,"end":3680.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3680.7384687500007,"end":3693.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3694.7109687500006,"end":3734.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3734.40096875,"end":3771.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3736.0378437500003,"end":3736.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3770.3278437500003,"end":3770.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3770.96909375,"end":3771.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3771.34034375,"end":3771.3740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3773.2978437500005,"end":3773.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3774.22596875,"end":3776.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3779.4909687500003,"end":3782.2922187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3782.5790937500005,"end":3783.9797187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3792.13034375,"end":3799.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3799.7072187500007,"end":3801.0065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3801.1922187500004,"end":3802.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3801.6815937500005,"end":3802.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3809.59596875,"end":3839.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3839.9372187500003,"end":3928.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3929.4928437500002,"end":3979.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3979.1728437500005,"end":3979.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3980.65784375,"end":3980.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3980.6747187500005,"end":3988.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3988.5722187500005,"end":4039.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4038.85971875,"end":4065.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4041.0028437500005,"end":4041.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4053.7940937500007,"end":4053.9797187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4065.03284375,"end":4065.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4065.67409375,"end":4065.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4065.7247187500006,"end":4065.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4065.8934687500005,"end":4101.972218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4101.972218749999,"end":4214.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4143.923468749999,"end":4144.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4205.2978437500005,"end":4206.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4215.06846875,"end":4224.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4215.99659375,"end":4216.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4216.013468749999,"end":4216.300343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4224.82221875,"end":4265.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4236.651593750001,"end":4236.972218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4236.972218749999,"end":4237.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4237.967843750001,"end":4239.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4265.9803437499995,"end":4315.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4269.86159375,"end":4270.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4281.20159375,"end":4282.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4296.186593750001,"end":4296.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4296.54096875,"end":4296.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4316.149718750001,"end":4332.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4332.67034375,"end":4371.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4339.42034375,"end":4340.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4358.2528437500005,"end":4358.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4359.77159375,"end":4360.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4370.74034375,"end":4374.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4374.58784375,"end":4385.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4385.2528437500005,"end":4452.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4386.417218750001,"end":4388.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4414.075343750001,"end":4414.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4451.807843750001,"end":4451.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4451.858468750001,"end":4451.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4451.87534375,"end":4451.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4451.97659375,"end":4452.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4452.0272187499995,"end":4452.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4452.11159375,"end":4453.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4454.82846875,"end":4457.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4457.714093750001,"end":4459.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4463.78909375,"end":4466.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4479.80346875,"end":4482.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4482.48659375,"end":4483.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4492.74659375,"end":4624.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4624.725968750001,"end":4625.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4624.74284375,"end":4624.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4625.13096875,"end":4647.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4647.99659375,"end":4663.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4655.55659375,"end":4655.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4655.573468750001,"end":4656.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4656.029093749999,"end":4656.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4657.98659375,"end":4658.003468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4658.003468749999,"end":4658.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4658.02034375,"end":4658.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4658.07096875,"end":4658.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4659.67409375,"end":4659.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4659.927218750001,"end":4660.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4663.57221875,"end":4665.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4664.44971875,"end":4764.923468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4667.807843750001,"end":4668.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4672.110968749999,"end":4672.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4672.60034375,"end":4672.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4678.776593750001,"end":4678.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4682.26971875,"end":4682.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4684.83471875,"end":4685.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4694.993468750001,"end":4695.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4696.41096875,"end":4696.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4704.780968749999,"end":4705.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4705.253468750001,"end":4705.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4706.232218749999,"end":4706.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4706.4178437499995,"end":4706.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4706.7215937500005,"end":4706.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4708.763468749999,"end":4708.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4709.11784375,"end":4709.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4712.104718750001,"end":4712.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4720.356593750001,"end":4720.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4727.528468750001,"end":4728.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4732.405343750001,"end":4732.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4736.74221875,"end":4737.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4746.310343749999,"end":4746.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4749.415343750001,"end":4750.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4754.714093750001,"end":4754.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4757.97096875,"end":4757.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4757.987843750001,"end":4758.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4758.24096875,"end":4758.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4762.020968750001,"end":4762.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4764.95721875,"end":4847.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4774.727843750001,"end":4774.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4774.964093750001,"end":4775.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4782.94596875,"end":4783.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4799.669093750001,"end":4800.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4820.7459687499995,"end":4820.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4843.69596875,"end":4844.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4847.03721875,"end":4847.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4847.54346875,"end":4855.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4857.76971875,"end":4858.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4859.102843750001,"end":4859.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4859.30534375,"end":4859.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4859.54159375,"end":4890.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4891.013468749999,"end":4953.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4953.923468749999,"end":4973.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4962.327218750001,"end":4962.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4965.921593749999,"end":4965.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4965.972218750001,"end":4966.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4967.27159375,"end":4967.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4971.54096875,"end":4971.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4972.958468750001,"end":4973.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4973.36346875,"end":4988.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4976.13096875,"end":4976.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4979.2528437500005,"end":4979.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4983.70784375,"end":4984.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4988.196593750001,"end":5006.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5004.835343750001,"end":5005.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5009.374718749999,"end":5010.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5011.88909375,"end":5015.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5026.23284375,"end":5031.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5031.86909375,"end":5033.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5036.17221875,"end":5037.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5037.25221875,"end":5042.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5042.97284375,"end":5051.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5051.46096875,"end":5057.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5058.10971875,"end":5070.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5063.8134687500005,"end":5063.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5063.83034375,"end":5063.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5063.96534375,"end":5064.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5071.00221875,"end":5071.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5072.048468749999,"end":5073.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5074.073468750001,"end":5075.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5075.845343749999,"end":5075.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5075.8622187500005,"end":5079.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5080.28346875,"end":5087.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5087.64096875,"end":5096.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5096.804093750001,"end":5098.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5098.42409375,"end":5099.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5100.415343750001,"end":5106.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5105.83221875,"end":5107.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5106.86159375,"end":5112.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5111.7215937500005,"end":5113.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5112.784718750001,"end":5113.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5113.965968750001,"end":5113.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5114.16846875,"end":5117.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5117.83034375,"end":5123.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5121.34034375,"end":5122.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5123.73659375,"end":5124.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5124.24284375,"end":5135.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5127.685343749999,"end":5128.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5135.8865937499995,"end":5136.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5136.89909375,"end":5137.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5137.405343750001,"end":5138.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5138.4853437500005,"end":5141.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5141.30346875,"end":5162.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5162.093468749999,"end":5162.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5162.481593750001,"end":5167.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5167.64534375,"end":5168.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5168.77596875,"end":5177.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5178.327218750001,"end":5181.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5181.651593750001,"end":5191.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5192.18159375,"end":5207.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5207.26784375,"end":5209.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5209.967843750001,"end":5212.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5212.43159375,"end":5220.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5220.61596875,"end":5226.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5226.62346875,"end":5227.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5226.690968750001,"end":5231.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5228.59784375,"end":5230.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5231.73659375,"end":5232.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5232.42846875,"end":5234.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5234.63909375,"end":5240.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5241.28784375,"end":5248.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5248.442843750001,"end":5251.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5252.3240937499995,"end":5261.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5262.61784375,"end":5268.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5268.642218749999,"end":5278.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5278.345343749999,"end":5280.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5281.0790937500005,"end":5282.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5283.137843750001,"end":5292.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5290.545968750001,"end":5297.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5298.00471875,"end":5303.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5303.91096875,"end":5304.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5304.6365937499995,"end":5309.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5309.479718750001,"end":5309.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5309.513468749999,"end":5309.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5309.530343750001,"end":5309.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5309.59784375,"end":5309.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5309.614718750001,"end":5309.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5309.614718750001,"end":5319.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5309.665343750001,"end":5309.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5311.4540937500005,"end":5311.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5311.589093750001,"end":5311.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5319.182843750001,"end":5320.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5320.09409375,"end":5325.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5326.067843750001,"end":5333.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5333.86409375,"end":5334.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5334.85971875,"end":5360.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5360.7459687499995,"end":5370.314093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5370.63471875,"end":5372.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5373.11534375,"end":5376.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5376.878468750001,"end":5378.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5378.16096875,"end":5390.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5391.222218750001,"end":5396.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5397.044093750001,"end":5420.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5420.247218750001,"end":5421.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5421.3778437500005,"end":5433.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5433.747218750001,"end":5435.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5435.35034375,"end":5436.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5437.493468750001,"end":5438.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5438.97846875,"end":5450.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5450.892218749999,"end":5458.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5459.02596875,"end":5461.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5461.962218750001,"end":5464.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5465.92784375,"end":5467.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5468.475968750001,"end":5471.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5473.0322187500005,"end":5473.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5474.26409375,"end":5475.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5476.154093749999,"end":5477.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5478.19596875,"end":5480.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5481.030968749999,"end":5494.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5494.51409375,"end":5496.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5497.872218750001,"end":5500.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5501.36534375,"end":5506.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5507.2040937500005,"end":5507.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5508.081593750001,"end":5516.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5517.413468750001,"end":5529.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5529.546593749999,"end":5530.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5530.862843750001,"end":5552.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5553.66096875,"end":5563.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5562.80721875,"end":5565.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5564.055968750001,"end":5569.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5568.00471875,"end":5579.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5569.725968750001,"end":5569.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5573.45534375,"end":5573.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5579.46284375,"end":5579.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5580.28971875,"end":5584.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5582.331593750001,"end":5586.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5587.37721875,"end":5594.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5591.68034375,"end":5594.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5594.97096875,"end":5595.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5595.1903437500005,"end":5595.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5595.91596875,"end":5597.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5597.434718750001,"end":5597.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5597.92409375,"end":5601.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5597.940968750001,"end":5598.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5598.05909375,"end":5598.126593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5602.32846875,"end":5608.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5602.345343749999,"end":5602.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5602.868468750001,"end":5602.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5608.70721875,"end":5613.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5614.259093750001,"end":5621.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5622.25784375,"end":5623.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5623.962218750001,"end":5625.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5624.704718749999,"end":5625.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5625.278468750001,"end":5625.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5625.919718749999,"end":5642.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5643.030968749999,"end":5643.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5643.7059687500005,"end":5646.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5646.456593750001,"end":5650.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5650.47284375,"end":5650.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5650.624718749999,"end":5650.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5650.70909375,"end":5663.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5650.810343749999,"end":5650.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5664.934718750001,"end":5673.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5673.405968749999,"end":5674.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5674.89096875,"end":5687.564093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5687.91846875,"end":5688.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5688.47534375,"end":5688.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5688.49221875,"end":5688.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5688.981593750001,"end":5701.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5702.4647187499995,"end":5707.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5706.71721875,"end":5710.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5710.27784375,"end":5711.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5712.319718750001,"end":5712.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5712.33659375,"end":5713.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5715.62721875,"end":5721.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5731.810343749999,"end":5734.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5734.392218749999,"end":5735.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5741.3447187500005,"end":5754.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5741.63159375,"end":5742.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5745.02346875,"end":5745.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5755.1990937499995,"end":5759.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5759.4853437500005,"end":5768.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5768.429093750001,"end":5775.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5775.66846875,"end":5792.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5794.264718750001,"end":5794.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5794.28159375,"end":5819.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5820.218468749999,"end":5835.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5835.794093750001,"end":5851.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5851.622843749999,"end":5851.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5851.70721875,"end":5855.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5855.706593750001,"end":5869.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5869.915343750001,"end":5981.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5901.269093750001,"end":5901.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5901.30284375,"end":5901.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5901.38721875,"end":5901.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5901.52221875,"end":5901.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5966.82846875,"end":5966.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5981.3240937499995,"end":5981.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5981.610968750001,"end":5981.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5982.30284375,"end":5982.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5982.319718750001,"end":6100.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5990.6053437499995,"end":5990.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5990.79096875,"end":5990.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5990.942843750001,"end":5990.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5990.95971875,"end":5990.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5990.97659375,"end":5991.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6101.06909375,"end":6153.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6153.280343750001,"end":6160.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6160.907843750001,"end":6170.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6171.370343750001,"end":6260.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6260.892218750001,"end":6288.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6288.82034375,"end":6327.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6328.29096875,"end":6329.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6330.045968750001,"end":6369.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6369.90471875,"end":6405.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6403.2665937500005,"end":6403.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6403.300343750001,"end":6403.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6403.97534375,"end":6405.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6405.983468750001,"end":6406.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6406.0340937500005,"end":6406.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6412.41284375,"end":6415.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6425.74409375,"end":6433.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6434.232218749999,"end":6436.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6437.08409375,"end":6439.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6440.189093750001,"end":6441.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6441.505343750001,"end":6442.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6443.36159375,"end":6443.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6444.323468750001,"end":6447.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6448.50846875,"end":6450.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6450.786593750001,"end":6451.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6451.2928437499995,"end":6452.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6452.22096875,"end":6452.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6452.25471875,"end":6454.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6455.325968749999,"end":6455.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6455.35971875,"end":6455.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6455.46096875,"end":6476.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6455.528468750001,"end":6455.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6457.401593750001,"end":6457.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6472.167218750001,"end":6472.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6472.18409375,"end":6472.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6472.639718750001,"end":6472.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6476.50409375,"end":6476.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6477.19596875,"end":6482.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6483.135968750001,"end":6484.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6484.18221875,"end":6486.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6487.92846875,"end":6491.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6491.97846875,"end":6516.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6492.045968750001,"end":6492.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6517.392218750001,"end":6520.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6520.581593750001,"end":6530.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6532.46159375,"end":6550.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6535.499093750001,"end":6536.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6536.5790937500005,"end":6536.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6545.809718750001,"end":6547.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6549.1678437499995,"end":6549.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6550.51784375,"end":6555.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6555.86721875,"end":6575.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6575.661593750001,"end":6576.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6577.09596875,"end":6578.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6579.1884687500005,"end":6582.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6580.84221875,"end":6583.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6583.204718750001,"end":6583.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6583.23846875,"end":6584.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6584.53784375,"end":6603.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6604.23096875,"end":6608.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6609.29346875,"end":6612.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6612.600968750001,"end":6623.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6612.837218750001,"end":6615.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6615.4697187500005,"end":6615.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6623.620343750001,"end":6624.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6624.29534375,"end":6633.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6633.694718750001,"end":6634.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6634.74096875,"end":6636.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6636.512843750001,"end":6637.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6638.149718750001,"end":6640.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6641.49096875,"end":6642.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6642.4022187499995,"end":6656.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6656.49284375,"end":6659.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6660.323468750001,"end":6670.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6670.38096875,"end":6670.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6671.764718750001,"end":6672.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6673.0809687500005,"end":6674.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6674.78534375,"end":6676.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6678.71721875,"end":6682.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6682.00784375,"end":6683.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6682.93596875,"end":6682.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6683.03721875,"end":6687.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6684.96096875,"end":6685.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6687.458468750001,"end":6690.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6690.546593749999,"end":6694.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6692.35221875,"end":6692.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6693.415343750001,"end":6693.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6694.5965937500005,"end":6695.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6695.96346875,"end":6700.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6700.65471875,"end":6700.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6700.671593749999,"end":6700.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6700.907843750001,"end":6700.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6700.9247187500005,"end":6700.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6700.97534375,"end":6702.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6701.937218749999,"end":6702.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6702.02159375,"end":6702.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6702.122843749999,"end":6729.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6702.1903437500005,"end":6702.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6702.325343750001,"end":6702.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6702.409718750001,"end":6702.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6704.63721875,"end":6705.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6707.2528437500005,"end":6707.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6707.32034375,"end":6707.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6707.337218750001,"end":6707.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6708.045968750001,"end":6708.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6717.546593749999,"end":6717.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6730.017218750001,"end":6748.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6747.80346875,"end":6751.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6749.27159375,"end":6749.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6751.17846875,"end":6771.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6769.70721875,"end":6770.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6771.968468749999,"end":6782.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6782.667218750001,"end":6789.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6789.839093750001,"end":6793.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6793.770968750001,"end":6798.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6798.411593750001,"end":6806.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6809.329718750001,"end":6814.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6814.66221875,"end":6831.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6832.2459687499995,"end":6834.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6835.114718750001,"end":6838.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6838.6415937500005,"end":6839.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6839.92409375,"end":6847.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6847.821593750001,"end":6851.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6852.47909375,"end":6855.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6854.95971875,"end":6863.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6861.321593750001,"end":6861.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6863.245343750001,"end":6870.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6864.595343750001,"end":6865.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6870.85596875,"end":6882.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6883.32659375,"end":6883.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6883.917218750001,"end":6883.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6883.93409375,"end":6884.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6884.03534375,"end":6887.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6887.54534375,"end":6907.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6887.562218749999,"end":6888.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6891.7978437500005,"end":6892.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6907.913468750001,"end":6910.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6910.157843750001,"end":6910.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6910.208468750001,"end":6911.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6910.731593750001,"end":6915.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6916.18221875,"end":6917.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6917.852843750001,"end":6929.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6930.01971875,"end":6936.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6936.66846875,"end":6954.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6954.20159375,"end":6961.626593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6956.26034375,"end":6956.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6959.331593750001,"end":6966.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6966.62159375,"end":6966.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6966.638468749999,"end":6966.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6966.840968750001,"end":6967.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6967.026593750001,"end":6967.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6969.81096875,"end":6970.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6972.139718750001,"end":6979.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6990.34784375,"end":6990.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6990.364718750001,"end":6991.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6991.24221875,"end":6993.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6995.03909375,"end":6996.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6996.70971875,"end":6996.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6996.743468750001,"end":6996.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6996.8447187500005,"end":6996.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6996.86159375,"end":6997.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6997.249718750001,"end":6997.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6998.279093749999,"end":7011.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7011.23909375,"end":7127.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7128.030968750001,"end":7160.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7141.581593750001,"end":7142.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7160.802218750001,"end":7165.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7165.18971875,"end":7191.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7169.712218750001,"end":7170.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7174.18409375,"end":7174.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7174.217843750001,"end":7174.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7174.2684687500005,"end":7174.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7174.487843750001,"end":7174.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7176.68159375,"end":7177.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7179.82034375,"end":7180.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7191.95346875,"end":7209.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7208.052218750001,"end":7213.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7212.81096875,"end":7213.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7213.401593750001,"end":7231.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7218.936593750001,"end":7220.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7229.753468750001,"end":7229.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7231.997843749999,"end":7238.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7238.528468750001,"end":7292.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7239.57471875,"end":7240.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7241.92034375,"end":7242.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7243.540343750001,"end":7244.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7292.342843750001,"end":7292.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7292.35971875,"end":7292.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7292.528468750001,"end":7292.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7293.38909375,"end":7296.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7297.169093750001,"end":7298.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7299.362843750001,"end":7301.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7302.231593750001,"end":7305.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7303.075343750001,"end":7304.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7304.340968750001,"end":7304.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7304.982218749999,"end":7304.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7304.999093750001,"end":7305.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7305.606593750001,"end":7307.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7307.83409375,"end":7315.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7313.993468750001,"end":7314.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7314.229718750001,"end":7327.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7321.0809687500005,"end":7321.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7325.991593750001,"end":7350.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7346.03909375,"end":7346.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7351.00034375,"end":7362.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7362.49221875,"end":7376.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7376.667218750001,"end":7386.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7380.95346875,"end":7381.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7386.35346875,"end":7387.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7387.4334687499995,"end":7387.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7387.821593750001,"end":7390.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7391.432843750001,"end":7392.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7397.32221875,"end":7448.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7448.335343750001,"end":7448.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7448.4872187500005,"end":7458.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7459.27034375,"end":7504.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7504.022843750001,"end":7504.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7504.107218749999,"end":7515.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7515.6834687499995,"end":7517.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7517.21909375,"end":7555.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7555.00221875,"end":7557.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7557.128468750001,"end":7557.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7557.24659375,"end":7557.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7557.63471875,"end":7557.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7560.67221875,"end":7566.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7575.10034375,"end":7577.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7578.49221875,"end":7579.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7585.66409375,"end":7586.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7586.69346875,"end":7589.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7590.0009687500005,"end":7605.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7606.251593750001,"end":7607.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7607.567843750001,"end":7607.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7608.24284375,"end":7608.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7608.42846875,"end":7619.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7620.089093750001,"end":7624.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7624.780343750001,"end":7631.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7631.901593750001,"end":7636.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7636.727843750001,"end":7638.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7639.259093750001,"end":7641.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7641.8915937500005,"end":7646.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7646.44784375,"end":7652.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7646.4647187499995,"end":7646.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7653.737843750001,"end":7653.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7654.56471875,"end":7675.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7676.046593750001,"end":7679.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7680.045968750001,"end":7699.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7684.635968750001,"end":7684.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7684.669718749999,"end":7684.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7684.720343750001,"end":7684.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7700.63346875,"end":7702.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7703.198468750001,"end":7703.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7703.21534375,"end":7703.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7705.64534375,"end":7708.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7709.45909375,"end":7720.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7721.052218750001,"end":7739.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7730.40096875,"end":7730.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7730.434718750001,"end":7730.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7730.50221875,"end":7730.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7740.25596875,"end":7770.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7771.154093749999,"end":7773.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7773.5165937500005,"end":7808.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7792.12971875,"end":7792.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7808.58284375,"end":7813.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7813.5947187500005,"end":7816.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7816.46346875,"end":7839.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7839.548468750001,"end":7857.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7857.99284375,"end":7890.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7876.15034375,"end":7876.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7891.354718750001,"end":7892.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7892.68784375,"end":7913.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7913.477843750001,"end":7965.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7965.90846875,"end":7966.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7967.88284375,"end":7968.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7971.29159375,"end":7971.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7971.3084687499995,"end":7972.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7972.92846875,"end":8007.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8007.4715937500005,"end":8009.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8009.665343750001,"end":8011.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8012.044718749999,"end":8013.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8014.32284375,"end":8015.436593750001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1574.623,"end":1577.072,"text":"報告委員會出席委員8人已足法定人數"},{"start":1581.496,"end":1608.813,"text":"我們現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第四會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十一一十五年一月二十六日星期一上午九十至十二時十二分地點紅樓森林一會議室出席委員陳永康等九人夜席委員耐氏寶等六人請教委員黃仁林益君夜席人員國防部部長顧立雄及所屬人員經濟部政務次長"},{"start":1611.021,"end":1634.621,"text":"姜文若、國家發展委員會副主任委員張方冠、國家科學及技術委員會執行秘書張正豪、主席馬昭及委員文君、報告事項、邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告、我國武器採購策略及國防預算、瓜武公務基金及特別預算、編列結構知識切信並請經濟部、國家發展委員會、國家科學及技術委員會列席並被質詢。"},{"start":1636.002,"end":1658.088,"text":"國防部部長顧立雄、戰略規劃師師長黃文綺、報告委員盧美玲等13人質詢,均由國防部部長顧立雄、副參謀總長執行官黃志偉、政務辦公室主任孫立芳、陸軍司令部參謀長陳建義、空軍司令部參謀長李慶然、國防大學教育長李承忠及國家中山科學研究院院長李士強等及其答复。"},{"start":1659.248,"end":1679.64,"text":"決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員黃仁及林玉君所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報三委員所提書面質詢書面及口頭質詢未及答覆後要求提供資資訊請相關機關於二週內已書面答覆本會全體委員並複製本會委員令指定期限者從期鎖定宣讀完畢"},{"start":1683.395,"end":1708.646,"text":"現在請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項邀請僑務委員會委員長許家青報告面對全球經貿變局挑戰如何協服僑台商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施並請衛生福利部列席並被質詢宣讀完畢我們現在先介紹在場委員以及與會的官員首先介紹陳永康陳委員"},{"start":1711.445,"end":1739.778,"text":"还有乔务委员会副委员长李延慧李副委员长荣佑尔荣主任秘书综合规划处张浩军张处长乔民处陈永峰陈处长乔教处林济荣林处长乔商处游凯泉游处长乔生处张文华张处长"},{"start":1741.021,"end":1759.236,"text":"主計是柯淑玲柯主任僑務通訊社羅榮羅總編輯財團法人海外信用保證基金董事長侯麗群侯董事長財團法人海華文教基金會廖雲軒廖執行長衛生福利部莊仁祥莊常務次長中央健保署劉林益劉主任秘書"},{"start":1774.144,"end":1790.137,"text":"本日會議邀請喬委員會報告面對全球經貿變局挑戰如何協服喬台商文件發展佈局全球之具體策略以及措施並被質詢現在我們請喬委會理副委員長上台報告"},{"start":1803.31,"end":1813.349,"text":"主席各位委員還有各位好朋友大家早安那今天呢是這個僑委員會的專案報告那因為我們委員長許家青現在這個"},{"start":1814.471,"end":1833.332,"text":"出國公務出國不在所以今天由我來代理報告那今天呢橋委員會的專案報告主題是面對全球經貿變局的挑戰如何協服橋台商穩健發展佈局全球之具體策略及措施"},{"start":1834.153,"end":1838.677,"text":"的確在現在的全球的局勢變動的非常快速橋台商是橋委會服務對象當中非常重要的一環因應全球的經貿局勢快速的變動我們也必須要隨時的來做滾動式的調整能夠提供全球的橋台商最好的協助跟輔導"},{"start":1859.878,"end":1863.1,"text":"那這個文字的報告請大家參見這個紙本的資料今天的專題報告主要分成四個段落那也請各位委員們不吝指教"},{"start":1875.134,"end":1898.391,"text":"中華民國的橋台商其實遍佈在世界各地那在全世界各地其實有長達非常多年的時間生根發展那他們有一些在橋區國都有非常濃厚的政經人脈跟通路的基礎也是我們發展民間外交草根外交非常重要的國家的助力"},{"start":1899.492,"end":1912.575,"text":"受到現在當前全球政經局勢急劇變化的影響全球的經貿加速重整所以我們的橋台商在海外的經營上面其實也面臨非常多的挑戰橋委會是專責的橋務機關長期推動各項的橋務工作"},{"start":1920.057,"end":1933.949,"text":"那辅导侨台商的组织健全发展协助侨台商提升经贸实力并且要落实宪法辅助并保护侨民经济事业发展的目标是我们责无旁贷的责任所以呢"},{"start":1935.51,"end":1954.689,"text":"橋委會在這個部分隨時都在與時俱進提供最新最適切的服務方案希望能夠加強協助橋台商轉型升級同時能夠串聯海內外拓展商機共同壯大橋台商以及台灣的經貿發展"},{"start":1957.709,"end":1975.509,"text":"我們看看目前的世界局勢先跟所有的委員報告目前橋台商在全球的經貿變局之下其實面臨了三大挑戰第一個挑戰是地緣政治的風險增高了所以供應鏈加速重組"},{"start":1976.91,"end":1985.64,"text":"最近的世界大事包括美中持續的對抗俄羅斯跟北約緊張衝突也越來越高還有太監的衝突以及中東的動盪等等供應鏈開始全球分為兩個系統"},{"start":1995.111,"end":2008.918,"text":"由以美國為首的非紅供應鏈以及中國自主的紅色供應鏈台商企業非常需要做好供應鏈的分流佈局才能夠爭取最大化的利益"},{"start":2010.373,"end":2024.687,"text":"那第二個挑戰是呢世界各國的政策跟產業結構都在調整也牽動了區域的佈局譬如說美國推動對等關稅跟製造業的回流那台灣最近在台美的關稅談判當中爭取到15%的關稅不疊加"},{"start":2030.233,"end":2056.021,"text":"那歐洲呢在最近也形成了以中東歐為核心的製造聚落台商這幾年對中國的投資減少但是呢在東協的投資穩定成長而且擴張以上這些因素都牽動了台灣產業跟橋台商在相關區域的經營跟布局那橋委會在橋屋工作的推展上也要因應的來做調整"},{"start":2057.421,"end":2076.018,"text":"第三個挑戰是永續以及數位驅動產業的新商機帶動產業轉型因為氣候變遷以及AI的浪潮襲來所以永續跟數位轉型已經是全球的趨勢政府現在積極的推動產業AI化 AI產業化"},{"start":2078.3,"end":2094.216,"text":"以台湾在半导体还有IC等产业的优势可以跟台商合作扮演关键角色带动物联网绿能以及循环经济等应用新商机可以扩大台湾的产业以及技术的输出"},{"start":2097.54,"end":2111.472,"text":"那為了因應這三大挑戰呢 以下將僑委會協輔僑台商穩健佈局全球策略的措施簡單的說明如下第一個我們的做法是強化僑台商組織網絡的聯繫協助商會擴大組織動能"},{"start":2117.635,"end":2143.933,"text":"中华民国的侨台商在全世界遍布六大洲目前有79个国家有176个商会会员超过4万家厂商这是一个非常庞大而且非常可贵的平台侨委会透过多元交流的平台强化侨台商的联系服务同时也要支持商会推展会务以及经贸"},{"start":2144.733,"end":2166.679,"text":"每年我們都辦理了幹部培訓接待商會回國訪問深化海內外的互動交流促進商會的網絡協助廠商開拓海外佈局例如在去年的時候我們協助了台灣的商會舉辦供應鏈論壇分別在北美歐洲還有亞洲都有舉辦環球商務論壇歐洲經貿論壇等等"},{"start":2171.3,"end":2199.533,"text":"来增进台湾跟亚洲美洲欧洲等地区更多产业跨境交流合作的机会那第二点呢串联侨台商跟台湾产官学研优势共荣发展侨委会的工作目标除了强化侨台商在全世界的平台组织之外另外也要加强海外的侨台商跟国内的产官学研单位的连结共创共荣的优势"},{"start":2200.593,"end":2226.478,"text":"我們扮演的是海內外的整合平台希望能夠連結海內外的資源協助橋台商事業發展同時還希望能夠匯聚僑力回台灣來投資合作截至目前已經跟國內的14所研發機構以及39所大學院校共同推出橋台商服務方案並且展開交流合作"},{"start":2227.438,"end":2246.336,"text":"例如我们协助洛杉矶台美商会开普顿台湾商会跟塑胶中心签署MOU泰国的台商总会跟台湾相关工协会台科大等单位签署MOU以及越南的台商总会跟工总与访托会签署MOU等"},{"start":2247.057,"end":2261.85,"text":"促進更多的海內外產業的交流合作那我們今年也有新的目標也會簽署更多的MOU還有透過各項的活動來因應這個海外橋台商的需求促進這個產業海內外的交流"},{"start":2263.147,"end":2267.712,"text":"第三點 促進橋台商與台灣產業的商機合作掌握海外的拓展契機橋委會每年都會辦理產業的邀訪培訓還有安排專業的經貿課程 拜會 參訪跟商機媒合等等"},{"start":2282.327,"end":2300.21,"text":"那這幾年來我們聚焦六大核心戰略五大信賴產業等政策我們這個回國參訪跟經貿課程的主題都是邀請橋台商回國研習然後參觀國內目前受到全球矚目的國內大型產業"},{"start":2302.203,"end":2307.305,"text":"這個部分非常受到橋台商跟國內業者的肯定今年民國115年 橋委會會陸續規劃辦理科技創新 機器人 智慧農業 安控 生技 長照等主題活動"},{"start":2318.57,"end":2330.295,"text":"我相信這些主題都是透過我們的問卷調查是目前我們海外的橋台商最感興趣而且未來希望能夠發展的投資項目所以我們針對橋台商的需求來訂定主題邀請他們回國來參與經貿的課程跟國內的產業跟學研機構來做連結擴大產業的連結跟影響力"},{"start":2344.363,"end":2362.233,"text":"第四點輔導橋台商綠色跟數位雙軸轉型提升競爭力那麼為了結合橋台商因應全球淨零跟AI的趨勢所以橋委會持續的結合台灣技術跟產業資源輔導橋台商雙軸轉型那我們在橋委會的官網有設置ESG的資源資訊也在國內開辦了很多期的ESG還有AI的主題培訓課程"},{"start":2373.961,"end":2387.063,"text":"协助我们海外的侨台商尤其是东南亚的侨台商进行温室气体盘查以及我们也领选了学者专家赴海外办理ESG还有AI主题的经贸讲座"},{"start":2388.177,"end":2407.524,"text":"在民國114年在海外總共辦理了10場次超過1000人參與頗受好評那今年呢我們會將持續推動另外也鼓勵各國的商會在各自的僑居國辦理教育訓練跟宣導推廣來提升企業的永續競爭力"},{"start":2410.54,"end":2433.043,"text":"第五点具体策略呢我们会墙外海外信保基金的服务来拓展乔台商事业版图那因应最新的台美这个关税的谈判结果因应美国对等关税乔委会会督导基金稳健运营还有扩大保证的能量除了积极的向银行募捐编列预算挹注基金"},{"start":2434.504,"end":2449.657,"text":"之外呢我们也协助基金将这个同一经济利害关系人的受信金额提高到300万美元同时呢最近开办了美国对等关税专案提供最高30万美元的贷款保证"},{"start":2451.463,"end":2477.425,"text":"由橋委會還可以補貼最長三年的手續費以及最長半年的部分利息因應各地的緊急的一些天災或是急難的需要也開辦了太南水災還有越南水災的專案保證這些措施都是為了要提高我們橋台山橋台商的韌性幫助受災的橋台商在當地重建事業"},{"start":2479.178,"end":2487.492,"text":"第六点我们的具体措施还有善用海外侨物的资源支援新兴地区的台湾投资厂商"},{"start":2488.624,"end":2514.621,"text":"随着台台湾的厂商跟这个连结的厂商转向新兴地区投资像台积电到美国去投资那日本跟德国也都有设厂所以我们的新侨民往海外移居的人数目前在增加当中那未来呢也会衍生出子女的教育社群的交流等等的需求"},{"start":2515.461,"end":2534.547,"text":"那橋委會呢陸續協助在當地成立商會、橋團、橋社而且也積極的結合當地跟鄰近的橋教中心、橋校、橋屋榮譽職等等資源希望能夠幫助新移民還有新進的台商融入當地的生活"},{"start":2535.447,"end":2548.426,"text":"另外 僑委會的政府首長跟駐外人員也會定期的來訪視運用多元的管道 加強聯繫服務深化新移民以及僑社連結 凝聚僑界向心力"},{"start":2551.018,"end":2572.021,"text":"海外的橋台商其實動能豐沛而且組織蓬勃發展橋委會未來會持續的精進橋務的服務工作結合國家戰略串聯海內外資源引導全球的橋台商跟台灣各領域合作讓橋台商協助台灣在世界舞台發光發熱"},{"start":2573.362,"end":2590.255,"text":"同時台灣提供產學研技術的優勢協助橋台商轉型升級共創立足台灣佈局全球行銷全世界的國家經濟佈局那以上是橋委會今天的專案報告謝謝聆聽敬請指教謝謝現在補充介紹羅美玲委員"},{"start":2604.98,"end":2630.492,"text":"接著請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處沒有那我們議事錄確定我們現在開始詢答本會委員6加2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘10點30分截止發言登記如果有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右處理現在請羅美玲委員上台質詢"},{"start":2639.278,"end":2640.645,"text":"謝謝主席有請副委員長請副委員長"},{"start":2650.852,"end":2662.418,"text":"副委員長早安今天是預算會期的最後一個委員會可是所有的預算都沒有審議包含了我們僑委會115年的預算所以我想請教副委員長剛剛您在報告的時候有提到僑委會為了因應美國對等關稅的衝擊所以在114年9月開辦了美國對等關稅保證專案"},{"start":2677.505,"end":2694.135,"text":"針對據書美時機且受到影響導致營業額減少10%的橋台上提供最高30%美元的貸款保證保證陳述是九成最長是六年還有就是由橋委會補貼最長三年保證手續費跟最長"},{"start":2695.276,"end":2715.989,"text":"半年部分的這個利息另外我還有看到你們有提到就是說為了因泰國南部跟越南中南部因為好雨淹水所以造成了橋台上的有受到一些嚴重的一些衝擊所以呢我們也有提供這個災害重建的這個專案保證那我想請教如果是說這個預算沒過的話針對這個"},{"start":2719.771,"end":2724.312,"text":"橋台商的這個貸款的這些保證有沒有受到這個影響請問副委員長謝謝謝謝委員的關心的確在橋台商的部分海外信保基金的專案一向都是這個橋台商非常關心的重點那尤其是台商在海外拓展的時候難免都會有資金的需求那有的時候呢需要這個"},{"start":2745.297,"end":2747.799,"text":"母國就是台灣這邊可以給他一些信用保證讓他在這個僑居國做生意的這個開拓這個初期的腳步能夠踏得更穩健那僑委會目前因為海外信保基金他本身的這個規模就不是很大那因應長期多年以來海外的僑台商不斷的反映所以我們在115年度的總預算其實有編列"},{"start":2770.692,"end":2777.076,"text":"要增加我們的這個基金的規模那才能夠因應未來尤其是這個美國關稅的專案可能會有的增加的這個業務量那跟委員報告到目前為止因為這個總預算沒有通過的關係所以我們新的這個這個增資的這個水位當然是沒有辦法能夠"},{"start":2793.786,"end":2796.768,"text":"現在沒有辦法補齊到目前為止從去年9月底開辦的美國對等關稅專案到1月23號為止到目前為止有6件目前有6件目前累計的受信金額是166萬美元"},{"start":2813.999,"end":2816.22,"text":"116萬166萬美元那累計的保證金額到149萬美元目前的規模還能夠因應目前能夠還能夠因應後續還有沒有但是因為這是我們去年度就是114年我們的這個"},{"start":2837.545,"end":2842.79,"text":"業務裡面獲得銀行捐款是有新台幣7000多萬的入帳所以我們目前還能夠因應可是這個對補的就是我們這個預算行政院預算要補齊的部分這部分就還沒有進來所以短期之內是如此但是如果說預算沒有通過的話"},{"start":2856.964,"end":2867.632,"text":"未來這個基金就很難再進一步的擴大提供融資保證服務那對於橋台商的全球的事業布局一定是會有影響的那對於我們以後橋台商的這個服務的量能我們也會受限都會有影響"},{"start":2872.575,"end":2884.526,"text":"因為我有看到我們在115年度總預算我們有編列了一筆這個捐助海外信用保證基金配合新南向政策增資計畫這個部分有1億500萬元這算是新興的部分如果這個預算沒有過的話就沒有了就算說後面如果說我們真的這個預算規模"},{"start":2896.357,"end":2920.265,"text":"不足的時候其實你就沒有辦法後續就沒有辦法進行所以其實對這個橋台商的影響其實是非常大的所以說這個在野黨卡一算其實也就卡到了我們海外橋台商的權益委員們多多幫忙因為其實海外的橋台商這樣的反應已經持續很多年了那我們的這個資金的增資的計劃其實也不是只有一年我們的金額其實"},{"start":2921.065,"end":2941.583,"text":"都不大那我们要分很多年就是侨委会的预算其实也蛮辛苦的分很多年的时间逐步的来扩增那也拜托各位委员大院的委员们都能够支持因为其实很多海外的侨台商侨民还有相关的这个就是关注这个议题的人大家其实都非常非常的关心这个进展"},{"start":2942.464,"end":2969.53,"text":"OK 除了這個呢我們這些專案受到影響之外再來我有看到我們僑委會115年的這個預算如果看工作計畫來講的話其實我們所有的這個預算工作計畫的這個預算是全面在增加的都比114年度增加了不少尤其是僑民僑團聯繫接待計僑教中心服務原先的2億多增加到3億4千多"},{"start":2969.87,"end":2990.224,"text":"那還有喬生回國升學季喬青培訓研習本來是8億多增加到11億9千多我想請問一下這兩個計畫說實在它增加的幅度是比較高的那對這兩個計畫我想請教一下我們原先想要增加的內容是什麼如果是說這個預算沒過的話影響到的是什麼請問副委員長"},{"start":2994.379,"end":3001.788,"text":"謝謝委員的關心這個是工作計畫的項目的部分那增加最大的類別其實在僑民僑團的聯繫接待跟僑教中心的服務以及這個僑生回國升學僑親培訓對那跟委員報告在僑生的部分其實我們主要是要因應這個"},{"start":3013.76,"end":3020.206,"text":"國家的外來人才的留用跟培育的計畫所以我們會擴大的引入僑生然後希望僑生在台灣就學之後還能夠穩定下來就業那充實台灣的人力的需求那所以這個部分我們增加了很多這個僑生的這個人數的員額那主要會用在僑生的學費"},{"start":3037.419,"end":3048.062,"text":"以及他們的這個升幅補助的部分所以這個部分如果資金沒有到位預算沒有到位的話也可能馬上會受到影響因為僑生的學費也照很多僑生都是經濟有困難的他們相當仰賴這個學費的補助所以學費補助如果沒有到位的話馬上就會受影響那在這個僑民僑團的聯繫的這個部分主要是今年會開始第二期的我們的"},{"start":3063.067,"end":3089.399,"text":"华语文的深耕教育的计划那这个计划呢其实会配合我们海外的华语文的教学以及TCML在全球的布点设置那在这个侨团跟侨教中心的部分也会提供一些空间的升级所以看起来这个原因比较多但其实我们的侨民跟侨团的数量一直都在增加当中所以我们服务的对象一直都在增加人数一直都在增加相对应的我们的预算需求也会上升"},{"start":3090.82,"end":3098.625,"text":"所以說其實這兩個都是本期長期以來一直很關心的一個就是說華語文中心的這個設立像過去的話我也請教了這個橋委會很多次我們覺得說這個應該是要擴大來做辦理所以看起來橋委會是有這個計畫可是如果這個預算卡關其實有很多其實是沒有辦法來擴大來做辦理的"},{"start":3110.973,"end":3113.976,"text":"那另外還有這個攬財計畫喬軒回國升學這個部分那當然這部分我也跟過去跟這個徐嘉欣委員長討論了非常非常的多那我們也看到就是說其實我們是有心要來做就是希望說就是我們的喬軒能夠回國來升學那再來來補足我們人才的這個不足"},{"start":3131.61,"end":3149.959,"text":"可是如果說這個計劃因為預算沒有審看起來這整個計劃新增的計劃都會卡關所以在這裡再次的呼籲在野黨真的是真的這個會期都已經要結束了我們竟然一毛錢都沒有審真的是阻礙了國家整個的發展好 以上謝謝接下來請陳俊宇委員上台質詢"},{"start":3170.278,"end":3182.693,"text":"好 謝謝召委主席 我們有請副委員長副委員長你先喝口水吧副委員長早早安 委員早安"},{"start":3184.838,"end":3199.283,"text":"好 副委員長 針對今天我們專報的一個主題我們面對全球這個經貿變局的一個挑戰那海外橋界是台灣與國際社會重要的一個橋樑那橋委會在今天的這個報告當中也特別花了"},{"start":3201.104,"end":3227.766,"text":"這個部分的篇幅提到有關全球地緣政治風險的一個升高還有供應鏈加速重組產業結構調整以及美國川普政府推出的這個關稅和製造業回流等政策我想對台灣來說未來跟美國之間各項領域的一個合作特別關鍵尤其在關稅談判的結果已經明朗之後不管是在經貿上的一個佈局策略"},{"start":3228.615,"end":3257.61,"text":"要加大投資或是在產業上要共同打造飛虹供應鏈強化我們自主生產的一個能力更進一步提升台美之間的一個戰略夥伴關係可以預期台美之間的這個連結會更加的緊密也會是接下來橋務工作的一個重點那我們看到您日前代表這個國家這個橋委會第一次出訪美國這個洛杉磯也參與了多場的橋界的活動"},{"start":3259.076,"end":3279.179,"text":"我想先請教副委員長的部分是在這次出訪當中您第一線接觸到的僑胞和僑商對於台美之間要進一步深化合作有什麼樣的期待或擔憂或是有提出什麼樣的對於我們僑委會的需求 有嗎"},{"start":3279.667,"end":3281.989,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝委員關心委員對我的行程也很關注我大概在上週才從洛杉磯回來那這一次到洛杉磯去出訪主要是參加洛杉磯台商的商會交接的活動那比較特別的是呢洛杉磯的商會是這個全美國大概是台商人數規模最多也是我們在那裡台橋人數最多的一個點那洛杉磯有非常多的我們僑務委員的僑務的榮譽值"},{"start":3307.188,"end":3311.15,"text":"以及僑胞僑民都在那裡那包括鄰近的現在這個最紅的台積電投資的Arizona鳳凰城也在洛杉磯的這個間狹的範圍之內所以洛杉磯的住辦還有洛杉磯的當地的文教中心可以說是一個我們海外僑務工作的重點那這一次的商會的這個交接當中呢還有很多北美的台商商會的會長都同時來參加這場盛會所以呢我在那裡一次有見到了很多"},{"start":3336.544,"end":3338.325,"text":"在美國的橋台商界的代表們正好在我飛機起飛的前一天我們台美關稅的結果公布了所以等於是飛機落地的時候當地的橋台商都已經得知這個訊息"},{"start":3351.934,"end":3355.298,"text":"他們也都很期待來自台灣的第一手消息跟台灣目前的反應是什麼那當地的橋台商其實對這個問題掌握度因為他們畢竟是在美國第一線同時也鄰近這個半導體現在要開發的這個重鎮就是Arizona的鳳凰城"},{"start":3369.475,"end":3378.021,"text":"所以他們其實是非常敏銳的而且是很正面樂觀以對那同時呢我覺得他們也已經在心態上都已經做好了相對的準備甚至對於未來可能台灣這邊會有的投資項目或者是長期的佈局計劃他們其實都非常非常的關切"},{"start":3388.368,"end":3393.43,"text":"那也要跟委員報告的是說在台美關稅協定的結果出來之後其實在這個美國的橋台商是非常樂見台美的經貿還有在半導體高科技界的交流能夠繼續的深化協助他們拓展市場因為這整個供應鏈的延伸跟擴展未來除了是台灣國力的延伸之外連在美國當地的橋台商他們都有機會可以受惠"},{"start":3415.78,"end":3419.262,"text":"所以我們在這個當地的布局當時也聽到了我在美國的時候就聽到外交部也公布這個消息說可能未來在亞利桑那今年有計劃要設立新的辦公室那我想在這個部分呢我們都很積極政府的腳步一定會隨著這個我們國人的需要就是我們產業界的需要那看有什麼可以協助的部分"},{"start":3439.657,"end":3448.405,"text":"關於他們的未來如果說過去工作在生活上子女的教育上或者是在這個一些資訊的連結上應該會有很大的需求那在產業的串聯的部分呢我想各部會還有當地的橋台商們他們都願意提供很大的協助那這當中其實機會是非常多的那到底要怎麼樣佈局怎麼樣來去發揮"},{"start":3463.757,"end":3480.187,"text":"其實是看各個企業他們自己有自己的這個規劃那政府的角度呢就是盡最大的力量然後先傾聽然後告訴他們最新最及時也是最正確的政府的政策方向那希望能夠團結橋台商們共同的來往這個深化經貿發展共融然後共這個共好的這個境界一起來努力"},{"start":3490.519,"end":3519.138,"text":"聽起來這個我們目前已經做好許多的準備那這也是我們期待的然後那也希望說我們剛剛副委員長所說的這個內容正向的部分我們應該是積極的來做謝謝謝謝拜託委員多支持那今天在這個報告當中也特別提到隨著這個供應鏈的重組那台廠跟台商的部分轉向新興地區投資佈局的趨勢例如我們台灣的這個台積電赴美國日本德國等地設廠"},{"start":3520.419,"end":3541.191,"text":"他們的員工和眷屬則會形成所謂的這個新僑民而這些高科技這個人才所吸加待卷出國打拼可能會衍生子女教育和生活適應的相關需求那政府也要在可行的這個範圍內盡可能來協助提供相對應的這個部分那譬如我們看到外交部"},{"start":3541.847,"end":3557.335,"text":"正在和美國交涉陳儒剛剛副委員長講有可能是要在鳳凰城設置這個辦事處來增加人力投入並且在正式設處之前會先在當地設點派專人提供一站式的服務"},{"start":3558.275,"end":3585.809,"text":"配合產業的這個策略來提供業者相應的服務這部分也需要我們僑委會積極的來投入協助我想請問副委員長在報告當中我們強調要善用海外的僑務資源支援新興地區的台灣投資的廠商僑委會在這部分是否會有具體的一個規劃能夠擴大協助這些科技新僑民的相關需求"},{"start":3586.636,"end":3590.258,"text":"報告委員我們有的橋委會其實資源跟預算都很有限但是我們在這個最大的可能範圍之內我們還是努力的去這個因應僑胞們的需求那跟委員報告的是在這個鳳凰城Arizona那裡外派的是這個台籍員工子女大部分都是高科技業的"},{"start":3604.927,"end":3608.909,"text":"所以他們的特色就是年輕然後高學歷然後同時他們對科技這個產品跟科技工具的應用也非常的純熟所以因應這樣子的新的趨勢僑委會在當地其實已經提前佈局了其實我們在目前已經成立了鳳凰城台灣半導體供應商協會這個是關於僑台商的部分已經有成立了"},{"start":3627.298,"end":3653.76,"text":"然后我们其实在桥校的部分也已经协助当地成立桥校了在凤凰城的部分现在有凤凰城中华中文学校跟凤凰城的华人基督教会中文学校已经有两所备查的桥校这两个学校其实都是开设正体的华文课程也就是台湾的繁体课程都是符合我们的台桥商子女的需要桥委会"},{"start":3654.801,"end":3669.612,"text":"本會自己編轉的中文的正體字的教材在過去兩年就是112年到114年已經正兩校1510冊教材那在德國的薩克森德勒斯登這個部分其實我們也成立了一所"},{"start":3670.192,"end":3693.762,"text":"华语学校是登记的桥校那在日本的九州熊本其实也成立了一所台湾语文教室那已经在像这个桥委会被查也就是说其实在这个子女的教育还有未来TCML是针对当地的外国人学中文而且是学台湾的正体中文的部分我们也陆续在推动这一次我到洛杉矶去"},{"start":3694.902,"end":3701.767,"text":"當地去其實他們都很有興趣那也很努力的想要在籌組當中那我想TCML的腳步也會跟隨著這個橋校之後就陸陸續續的來設立那商會的組織其實透過洛杉磯商會他原本就有規模再繼續來串聯我們就是希望能夠結合當地原本的橋台商還有社團的規模來輔導而且協助我們這些新橋民們那同時把他們納入我們整個橋委會海外的橋台商以及橋民的平台"},{"start":3724.842,"end":3732.127,"text":"的一部分那未來我們的資訊連結暢通那平常的交流密切之後能夠提供更多的服務也能夠更能夠傾聽他們的需求"},{"start":3734.414,"end":3761.208,"text":"好 謝謝副委員長非常詳細的說明那我們對這個僑商僑民的資源不單單只是政策而已而是要看到實際的這個資源跟服務那也請我們僑委會務必要與外交部還有我們經濟部等相關部會做好這個橫向的這個聯繫把我們傳統僑社的資源跟新興科技移民的需求對接起來讓我們在外打拚的這些台灣人形成更大的"},{"start":3761.688,"end":3776.002,"text":"更大更強的這個力量我想這也是我們政府面對全球這個變局應該要有的一個積極作為好 謝謝副委員長 以上謝謝謝謝陳菊委員的發言 謝謝我們下面請馬文君委員質詢委員先喝口水"},{"start":3792.662,"end":3800.547,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩請副委員長以及我們衛生福利部常務次長謝謝"},{"start":3809.919,"end":3839.239,"text":"執行長還有副主委因為就我們今天當前國際政經的環境原本在經歷冠狀病毒疫情結束以後我們經過重新啟動以後希望可以迅速的復甦可是在俄羅斯2022年2月起入侵烏克蘭以後除了引發全世界的糧食能源供應鏈的危機以外中東地區之前的以哈衝突現在又有美伊"},{"start":3840.279,"end":3856.727,"text":"之間的衝突近期緊張局勢也不斷的攀升那東南亞地區從去年也發生太簡邊境的衝突就這些相關的衝突以外那在美國跟大陸兩大經濟體持續的對抗底下南海跟台海局勢也一直沒有有緩和的趨勢所以這也影響到台灣本身經貿發展跟佈局也使得在東南亞"},{"start":3869.353,"end":3884.765,"text":"布局的這些台商也受到很大的影響那就這個部分像我們也看到美國總統他在第二任以後採取的美國優先的政策對各國關稅站的這些相關措施對我們也首當其衝"},{"start":3887.947,"end":3894.069,"text":"那造成全球供應鏈加速的重整也使台商的經營環境在住在國可能有一些相關的經貿衝擊也處於不利的局勢老實說我們的橋台商真的是非常的厲害因為其實他們在政府給予的助力不多的情況之下他們可以在全世界各地去發展自己的實力然後去面對最大的困局然後也成功的在每一個的國家"},{"start":3917.755,"end":3925.263,"text":"都可以有自己的一席之地這是真的非常非常的不容易所以就我們國家可以提供的協助我們還是希望在他們需求的部分我們可以提供更好的"},{"start":3932.91,"end":3936.093,"text":"相關的比如說像我們國內可以提供的一些相關的福利措施或者應該給予的資源等等近期本席也率領我們相關的訪團前往越南我們也拜訪了鞋業 建築業還有機動車還有很多製造業的一些多家龍頭的企業然後也跟平壤還有同奈等地的台商做了一些座談"},{"start":3961.653,"end":3977.803,"text":"那在這些敗匯的過程當中我們也可以感受到這些橋台商他們在美國關稅政策也會面臨一些衝擊那就這個部分我相信橋委會應該也有一些相關的掌握目前有沒有什麼相關的因應作為"},{"start":3980.697,"end":3984.418,"text":"謝謝委員的關心非常認同委員剛剛所說的我們的橋台商其實在這個中華民國台灣在跟很多國際上沒有正式外交關係的情況之下還能夠靠著自己的力量然後片手之足很多我們橋台商的第一代都是自己努力然後打下一片天那同時呢在創立基業的之後"},{"start":4004.966,"end":4007.649,"text":"還能夠回饋台灣確實讓我們感到非常的敬佩尤其是台灣其實在越南的台商分布的非常多產業類別也非常多這幾年因為新南向政策的關係其實越南的部分我們台商普遍大致上來說發展的是不錯的"},{"start":4025.566,"end":4040.343,"text":"那台湾对东协的投资也一直陆续的在增加当中那我们也协辅了很多越南的台商协助他们做产业的升级跟转型包括导入了循环经济还有数位转型的这相关的我们撤要的可能不是"},{"start":4040.963,"end":4054.189,"text":"因為其實橋台商其實在越南他們如果可以立足而且發展得很好他們已經發展得很好我們現在要說因為如果倒掉的說撤回來的已經都撤回來的我們已經知道是現況可是我們現在是說面臨現有的國際局勢還有現在我們台海的局勢緊張的情況之下我們可以做到什麼簡要的一個方向就好"},{"start":4066.235,"end":4071.278,"text":"跟委員報告目前我們這個美國關稅的專案貸款的專案裡面到目前為止有六件來申請那這六件都是來自越南的台商那可見就是說我們這個專案雖然不敢說是全部但是有一些程度有幫助到可以服務到越南台商的需求"},{"start":4084.304,"end":4088.208,"text":"那當然台商的需求它可能是範圍很廣大那個問題都不一而足但是僑委會的立場是傾聽他們然後協助他們能夠對接到相關的部會因為他們的產業類別還有他們面臨的困境可能會非常的不一樣因為現在我們剛剛有提到就是說如果他們其實在有很多的企業剛剛我們也提到有很多其實已經立足很成熟很穩定在發展的"},{"start":4112.449,"end":4115.95,"text":"其實他們跟我們政府要借錢的機會並不是那麼大因為我們的像我們這些經費其實也不是很高所以他們最需要的就是在這個國際局勢當中剛剛有說要跟其他部會對接因為這個不是僑委會獨立可以做到的所以我們希望這個對接的角色可以做到更好"},{"start":4133.496,"end":4136.198,"text":"因為他不是只有花錢而已所以預算到底怎麼樣我們僑委會並不是很多所以他可以影響的主要的是我們在這個橋樑扮演的這個平台才是我們的重點那剛剛有提到可能在他們的需求上面因為今天衛福部也列席我們希望可以一起來解決相關的問題因為這一次我們去參訪的時候也剛好"},{"start":4160.371,"end":4163.793,"text":"有碰到這個問題就是在冠狀病毒防疫期間僑委會曾經配合衛福部在推動健康義友APP提供給海外我們的僑胞遠距免費健康的諮詢那疫情結束以後"},{"start":4177.122,"end":4180.126,"text":"僑胞希望可以持續的因為當時這樣子的一個措施應該是對他們有很大的一個注意所以他們也希望說在海外可以享用我們台灣的醫療資源可以讓台商跟家人在異地也可以安心就醫畢竟台灣在整個醫療"},{"start":4196.525,"end":4202.306,"text":"的水準上面其實是受到肯定的尤其是我們出門在外的這些我們的橋台商還有他相關的眷屬所以他們很希望能夠以插健保卡的方式來作業我想要請教我們長賜那就這個部分我們可以在海外遠距醫療的這個部分可以有什麼具體的做法嗎"},{"start":4225.264,"end":4239.616,"text":"目前其實跟越南台商這邊其實是用虛擬的健保卡他不需要在因為他的健保卡是在他身上嘛那現在只要用手機的虛擬健保卡他們可以用目前可以用所以就是透過虛擬健保卡的部分不過目前因為我們的規定是說在國人在海外那只能有那個急症才能夠回國之後來那個就是先玷污再核退"},{"start":4252.546,"end":4262.372,"text":"那現在就是說所以現在跟越南台南這部分是自費的也就是說看完之後那可能要由這個他的家人在這邊台北這邊幫他準備藥物再寄過去大概就這個程序那可以不可以有一個更簡便的方式因為你還是在我們這邊可能還要取藥各方面"},{"start":4274.259,"end":4277.601,"text":"因為他們除了健保卡的使用以外因為他可能你說的大概是有一些慢性疾病或者其他的可能重要的一個狀況發生的時候可是如果以現在我們的包括醫療器材其實包括遠距醫療其實他慢慢的在成熟的情況底下比如說像台中榮總他跟那個浦榮其實他們現在有一些醫療的設備"},{"start":4301.778,"end":4315.747,"text":"其實就可以做一個連結那就這個部分其實在看診的時候遠距醫療看診的時候其實他們可以提供更好的這樣的一個諮詢服務還有看診的這個作業那這個部分我們有沒有辦法做到"},{"start":4317.168,"end":4330.247,"text":"他應該是說他如果可以怎麼去提供他那些比如說穿戴裝置的資料這可以再評估但是就是說因為這也涉及到各國的他們醫療的規定可能也需要再研議"},{"start":4332.991,"end":4344.514,"text":"因為就這個部分他們也提到非常多因為有時候可能不小心生病可是又不是這麼嚴重的情況之下或者並不適合在搭飛機的情況之下可以怎麼樣提供他們更好的這些醫療的諮詢跟服務我想這個可能是他們迫切需要的因為如果說為了有時候不是真的非常嚴重可是他必須要搭飛機又回來"},{"start":4360.137,"end":4384.713,"text":"光是來回的機票或者它的騎乘等等其實也會有很大的可能那種損耗那就這個部分我們也期待有一種的方式就是說這個它可以在就跟當地的那個醫療機構合作也就是說由醫療機構跟我們這邊醫療機構遠距然後它就可以提供一些諮詢的一個"},{"start":4385.333,"end":4389.915,"text":"那這個應該也是一個很好的方法所以我們也希望說僑委會站在協助我們僑台商的立場然後衛福部也可以提供這樣子的一個平台來跟其他的駐在國因為我們一步一步慢慢來如果有一些國家可以跟我們做這樣的一個配合調整我們也來提供給僑商台商其實更好的這樣子的醫療服務那這一個部分也請"},{"start":4412.505,"end":4417.028,"text":"衛福部可以多琢磨然後配合我們僑委會看應該怎麼樣來做這樣的一個橋樑的一個工作好不好因為我們希望我們分佈在全球各地因為有一些你如果當地的醫療資源或者他的醫療品質不錯那當然大家比較不會擔心可是相對的他們的費用也非常高"},{"start":4435.1,"end":4453.148,"text":"可是你如果在一些醫療水準可能比較沒有那麼好的情況底下其實他們還是會是對他們一個很重要的資源的服務這個部分我們請衛福部跟僑委會可以同時來進行謝謝謝謝委員謝謝馬文君委員的質詢與建言各位請先回座喝口水"},{"start":4464.1,"end":4466.382,"text":"下面我們請沈博洋委員發言謝謝主席有請這個副委員長謝謝請副委員長"},{"start":4492.842,"end":4512.831,"text":"你好現在就是說因為有第一個當然是關稅這件事情剛剛前面有蠻多委員問過的現在又有所謂供應鏈的問題這個當然是我們國防部遇到的比較多並不是僑委會我們現在是希望能夠跟民主同盟有以美國為首的非紅供應鏈"},{"start":4514.312,"end":4533.802,"text":"這跟我們當年的晶片其實也非常類似雖然那個時候並不是跟紅色有什麼太大的關係但的確都是有一些技術上的移轉然後到台灣之後讓我們可以成長茁壯像我們現在比如說我們的無人機等等相關的一些產業其實有很多的零件都來自於中國"},{"start":4535.083,"end":4547.838,"text":"這個紅色供應鏈如果我們在裡面的話其實會是很大的問題比如說今天我們的敵人就是中國如果開戰的時候這些零件我們無法取得一個月可能要消耗非常多的無人機等等之類的這個都會形成問題"},{"start":4549.76,"end":4571.269,"text":"現在就是說呢因為之前當然第一個關稅剛剛前面比較多人問所以我從這邊來切入就是說因為供應鏈的這一個佈局其實非常的重要那現在其實很多廠商們都在準備當然有一個比較麻煩的地方是現在我們的這一個國防特別預算到現在是特別條例不要說特別預算了連特別條例都還沒有付尾"},{"start":4572.069,"end":4593.18,"text":"所以就會變成說我們接下來很多廠商他可能在期待說這整個飛鴻供應鏈到底要怎麼做但其實我們這個相關的這個條例還沒通過不過我覺得以經濟部的立場來講現在已經都已經開始準備在鼓勵廠商不管是雙用不管是要加入到這個產業然後增加工作機會這大概是我們現在政府的立場"},{"start":4593.891,"end":4609.805,"text":"那我們還是有另外一塊是跟橋尾會有關的就是我們的橋台商那橋台商現在這樣的一個供應鏈的這個分流佈局就我所知他們很多呢他們可能現在是在東南亞雖然他也有廠在台灣但有很多廠他是在東南亞"},{"start":4610.566,"end":4630.921,"text":"那我們就是之前有遇到就是有問到這一個前面的這一個信用保證基金那我們也有問說目前這一個有做這個保證的這個額數好像從去年到現在我看這一個是有六件六件可不可以稍微說明一下當然有六件那不是壞事的確是有但是總覺得六件好像還不夠多"},{"start":4632.369,"end":4647.388,"text":"那當然這跟我們自己現在國內的這一個立場尤其在立法院這邊是搖擺不定的可能會有一定的關係然後關稅也才剛定下來但是就是這方面的這一個這六件還有以及未來的展望是不是能夠更多是否可以跟國人報告一下"},{"start":4648.689,"end":4663.574,"text":"謝謝 謝謝委員的關心我們海外信保基金從去年九月開辦就是美國對等關稅專案這個專案從去年九月底開始到一月二十三號為止是六件那這六件呢其實申請人都是來自越南都是越南的"},{"start":4664.554,"end":4677.078,"text":"都是越南的那產業類別包含紡織金屬製品製造機械製造以及成衣等等所以就是如同委員剛剛說的其實我們的台商遍佈全球但產業類別都不一樣那在東南亞的其實還是以比較偏傳統而且從小的這個產業類別為主那當然他們都很希望能夠升級所以我們在這個僑委會"},{"start":4689.743,"end":4700.952,"text":"輔導台商回來的研訓班當中我們其實都加入了從去年開始加入了航太加入了一些安控然後一些AI還有一些這個循環經濟數位轉型等等這樣的主題那其實都很受到這個東南亞東協國家這些台商們的歡迎"},{"start":4706.497,"end":4713.044,"text":"那他們也覺得符合他們的需求那在費用供應鏈的部分我想商機非常的多那台商的腳步跟頭腦其實都是動得很快的他們也都非常的靈敏但是政府的政策要怎麼樣明確的給他們僑委會作為一個橋樑的角色如果我們有明確的這個譬如說這個"},{"start":4726.657,"end":4730.119,"text":"預算過了或者是說我們這個政策已經法令整個下來了那當然整個帶動整個台商潮這個我們責無旁貸我們一定是在第一時間用我們的平台那把最正確的訊息傳達給所有感興趣的橋台商那大家這個共同來加入飛鴻供應鏈那我想很多橋台商其實心裡就標的了啦"},{"start":4749.634,"end":4764.643,"text":"他們大概知道說自己現在目前做的產業要升級可以去對應到飛鴻供應鏈的哪一塊哪一個部分甚至一些預先的準備工作都已經做好了那現在就等待說最後那個時機timing最適合的時候大家可以一起來啟動或許這樣力量會最大"},{"start":4765.464,"end":4782.743,"text":"因為我現在這樣聽起來就是說當然我們的信用保證基金很多是要協助可能跟一些關稅等等有關的所以你看剛剛講到的越南為主的它都是以傳產為主這一塊當然很重要因為這一次我們能夠談到這一個15%因為我們傳產最主要不是說到底過去幾%而是我們要跟別的國家做比較"},{"start":4783.463,"end":4810.944,"text":"我們有些可能是跟荷蘭競爭有些可能是跟東南亞的國家競爭有些可能是跟印度都有可能在這個競爭之下這個15%現在對我們來講是有一定的競爭力但是在這一個之前因為畢竟現在還有剩下有大概1000個清單還要簽所以這邊還是有很多不確定性所以我覺得保護船船這當然是重要的一件但另外一個就是剛剛講的就是我們輔導的部分當然剛剛有提到AI跟我們的科技有關但另外一塊可能就是我們的飛虹供應鏈"},{"start":4811.744,"end":4834.453,"text":"因為這也是我們現在政府我覺得蠻著重的一點就是今天因為有些它在它是不是屬於傳產但是它也沒有在做AI相關的這個時候其實在這一塊裡面很多是跟軍工有關的它可以雙用的它都能夠進入飛鴻供應鏈飛鴻供應鏈不是只有台灣飛鴻供應鏈其實在歐洲因為歐洲現在整個軍備也提高所以在提高的狀況之下飛鴻供應鏈對他們來說很重要"},{"start":4835.994,"end":4854.948,"text":"像我們之前在看到有一些是在立陶宛的台商捷克的台商其實有在往這個方向努力那我也知道委員長都有在跑這些地方所以呢就是希望這個能夠逐步推進我覺得這是重要的好 謝謝委員那另外一個就是我這個要這個問可能有點來不及因為時間的關係但我想先我請一下這一個我們的衛福部的次長謝謝請次長"},{"start":4859.108,"end":4872.319,"text":"主委好好 謝謝我前面本來是要先要問喬因為喬委會之前都有在推廣一些就是這一個全世界各地的這些比如說緊急救助這一個就是我們的這一個社會防衛任性因為我們一直以來說社會防衛任性是在講我們國內但是喬委會他還針對我們的僑民來做這整體的規劃我覺得這非常重要"},{"start":4879.065,"end":4889.133,"text":"因為他們也是會飛來飛去的然後他們在國外怎麼貢獻跟在國內怎麼貢獻這個重要那這個我剛剛來不及問但我裡面有一個小問題就是因為我最近在看日本的這一個這一個就是它的這一個液態的配方奶"},{"start":4894.918,"end":4909.713,"text":"它非常它比較昂貴然後大概就是我看它的這個價格可能要三倍那因為小孩子他要沖泡這個奶粉等等之類還需要熱水然後呢這一個程序也比較長那這一個液態的配方奶它非常的快速"},{"start":4910.854,"end":4937.81,"text":"它快速是一件事情那後來呢就是日本在這個2016年熊本地震的時候芬蘭捐了不少類似這種液態奶然後到2018年之後日本就覺得說這個在防災搞不好特別的重要因為防災像我們剛剛講的你可能就是身邊沒有那麼多設備但這個是嬰兒嬰幼兒可以吃的但我後來去了解一下我們台灣的這一個法規啊等等之類的就是你要得到這方面的販售的許可啊等等之類目前來講還算是這個是非常嚴格"},{"start":4940.132,"end":4953.066,"text":"當然我認為嚴格是對的因為我們什麼事情政府都應該要把關但是如果從防災的立場來講這個對台灣也有一定的重要性所以我覺得這是滿未來的事情但想問衛福部對於這件事情未來有沒有什麼想像跟規劃"},{"start":4954.668,"end":4972.821,"text":"對於省委員這邊問的那的確這看起來是對於我們防災應該是有一些需要啦所以我回去會請食藥署針對這個來研議另外一個是說如果緊急需要的話那在沒有通過之前是可以緊急進口這也是一個可以做的啦"},{"start":4974.042,"end":4978.627,"text":"但是為了要比較長遠的一個部分我們會請食藥署針對這個議題來研議看是不是也邀請這個廠商也要送件送件來我們才有辦法去做後續的一個讓他認證"},{"start":4988.637,"end":5005.982,"text":"對 因為我現在看到很多應該都是國外的一些廠商但是我總覺得這個對我們的未來應該算是蠻重要的所以未來的話如果可以的話我們再跟衛福部跟食藥署來討論一下這件事情這對我們的防災應該會有這個又都是在以海外為主或許僑委會也可以有一定的角色謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝接下來請王帝瑜委員上台質詢"},{"start":5026.274,"end":5034.005,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩我們信保基金的董事長請信保基金董事長主席我也好"},{"start":5037.521,"end":5055.392,"text":"待會有其他需要補充的話不管是副委員長或其他業管單位就歡迎自己上來第一個請教一個問題我們信保根據我調查我們在2025年大概信保出去我們擔保的信保額度是1億5147萬美金"},{"start":5058.834,"end":5086.865,"text":"2024年是1億4986萬美金當然壽星的額度比這還高大概是一半就是說有點像我買房子我要去買我要買一個2億5千151萬的房子然後呢這個你們來幫我擔保大概一半的錢當我這個擔保的保證人大概是這個概念那我要請教你我一般要比較難理解的是如果我們信保基金海外信保"},{"start":5087.745,"end":5090.426,"text":"去承擔1億5147萬美金或1億4986萬美金我用1億來講好了那你們要準備多少錢"},{"start":5101.158,"end":5108.002,"text":"因為目前我們所謂的代償率就是等於是假如是100塊的話我們代償率是1.4塊就是1.4%所以1.4%那我這樣講不知道對不對就是說我今天如果信保1億"},{"start":5117.867,"end":5135.299,"text":"我大概要準備的是1億的1.4%對 就140萬美金這個就是我的成本對 至少這個成本將來還可以去追啦我們把它當作呆帳不一定會追回來是那前面有人說你要幫人家擔保1億4那1億4跳掉了你要全部負擔沒錯 所以有一個真性嘛"},{"start":5136.539,"end":5162.177,"text":"連針嘛 是銀行又銀行股啊銀行股啊又不是隨便放款他一定會去看你的信用你的所得你的營業額甚至你有沒有不動產資產負債都會看完經過徵信完我決定我銀行要借你一億可是我覺得對你信用上我有所疑慮要你找個保證人這個保證人呢在海外就是海外信保基金你們來當保證人 是"},{"start":5162.597,"end":5180.643,"text":"在家庭通常配偶買房子連帶保證人就找另外一個配偶綁在一起所以政府擔任所謂信保的角色就是當我們中小企業如果在海外他要去拚經濟可是他拿不到銀行海外美國的銀行不借他錢"},{"start":5181.721,"end":5209.191,"text":"歐洲銀行不借他錢或者因為你誰擔保的身分差別利率會有所差別美國的話如果你是初次來這邊做生意大概是6%那一般信用比較好有往來的大概是2%以下這個是海外資金運作的所以在跟你確認這件事情就是我們長年以來這個又不是我們現在執政才有長年以來喬委會的海外信保基金為了幫助我們喬台商"},{"start":5210.091,"end":5222.265,"text":"我們在信保的額度每1億你們要準備的成本大概是1.4%左右我這樣全是沒有錯嘛這個就是成本嘛所以100塊要準備1.4塊100億要準備1.4億140萬美金要準備這個額度"},{"start":5231.855,"end":5251.517,"text":"所以從這來看我們最近跟美國談到的所謂的最惠國待遇或者是關稅談判我覺得它是一個專業問題政治的口水沒辦法去掩蓋真實如果這個談判的條件不好企業界會知道產業界會知道如果這個談判的條件不錯"},{"start":5252.978,"end":5281.339,"text":"產業界也會知道也許對政治人物的評價可以透過抹黑啊 造謠啊可以有一時的影響但是這是紮紮實實的經濟議題所以2500億所謂的對美投資那個是指私人部分包含台積電的1600億美金還有我們要購買我們的能源等等那個大概就消化掉了很多人把後面那2500億美金的信用單保直接把它加上去你們會這樣加嗎"},{"start":5284.355,"end":5303.228,"text":"應該不一定啦因為事實上本身這個企業他的投資的錢到底是自己的錢或者是跟銀行借來的錢其實是都有可能的用加法就不對嘛就好像你兒子去買一間房子一千萬叫你這個老爸來擔保一千萬難道你還要再另外拿一千萬放在那裡不是你是擔保他那一千萬不還的時候你的貸產嘛"},{"start":5304.704,"end":5333.992,"text":"那代償率1.4%我就要準備1000萬我就準備個這個14萬嘛就代償率的概念是這樣子所以2500億美金的擔保或信保其實我準備就是2500億乘上1.4%大概35億美金左右35億啦 何況像台積電那種公司哪需要你信保啊所以還會更小大概會低於25億美金因為許多會到美國投資的大型公司他本身的Credibility在"},{"start":5335.559,"end":5359.475,"text":"國際任何銀行都搶到借他錢根本不用你去信保他所以他真正幫助到的是比較少涉足海外投資的或者是首次去海外投資的或者是屬於中小型規模欠缺他的這個Credibility這樣的企業我們在幫助的是 輔助的是這樣的弱勢或中小或者他有能力只是缺乏過去的時機"},{"start":5360.896,"end":5376.415,"text":"就像我們的性保基金一樣 對不對所以第一個命題我剛才請教的就是透過我們政府長年就存在的對海外叫海外性保在國內的就是中小性保這個不是現在才有欸你們海外性保操作幾年了"},{"start":5377.589,"end":5396.302,"text":"37年多了我們在場大概沒有幾個比37年小啦我們都比他大但37年也算蠻長的時間所以37年來歷經多任的政府信保是一個我們的企業家我們的產業界去海外打拚的時候他的一個工具"},{"start":5397.422,"end":5420.824,"text":"從來沒有人說我信保 我們僑委會信保我們的信保金信保1億5千147萬美金哇 那你僑委會的預算大概一半就拿去花掉了 沒有人這樣算的所以我們該透過這樣子讓他理解信保的概念那個貸償率1.4%才是一個潛在的成本而且那還可以再追償的你只是擔任擔保 所以"},{"start":5422.366,"end":5438.187,"text":"2500億準備起來是35億美金如果扣掉大型企業那種自己就可以擔保自己的大概還要比35億美金更小現在任何人再把2500億信保那就不是不懂囉如果看到我們這一段不是不懂囉那就裝不懂"},{"start":5439.088,"end":5453.571,"text":"直接要亂帶風去破壞台灣好朋友談到這麼優惠那台灣的傳統產業不管在台中在彰化在任何地方因為這樣子韓國已經吃驚了韓國變25%15%不疊加跟25%要疊加差多少如果你原始稅率是21或27要疊加的意思就是變50多%跟15%風頂不疊加"},{"start":5465.93,"end":5470.968,"text":"台灣的中小企業的命脈在這裡那我現在要請教你的第二個問題我們也請副委員長上來"},{"start":5473.086,"end":5496.312,"text":"那個現在有產生一個情形台灣確實在對等關稅談判達到了15%另外還有2.5倍的投資可以豁免抵稅歸零還有232條款對九大產業的列入不管是汽車零組件我們的水五金工具機腳踏車零組件等等等等"},{"start":5497.95,"end":5511.546,"text":"那我現在要請教僑委會跟信保基金的是我們有一些僑台商他的工廠是在台美以外的第三國而像東南亞有的是19%有的21%有的還要疊加有的還有懲罰稀產地幫中國稀產地的懲罰性關稅20%"},{"start":5517.492,"end":5536.63,"text":"那我們的橋台商如果因為在越南在哪裡遇到這樣困難他轉去美國投資我請教橋友會這個投資額度有沒有列入台灣對美投資額度他從第三地比如說我們某某橋台商現在他的工廠設在非洲設在東南亞"},{"start":5537.37,"end":5551.948,"text":"而他現在決定因應這個關稅我在這邊生產把我的利潤吃掉了我現在某某橋台商把我們的資金要拿到美國加州投資德州投資這個有沒有列入我們中華民國對美投資的額度內"},{"start":5554.02,"end":5565.222,"text":"謝謝委員的關心 僑委會的工作主要是做僑台商的平台那您剛剛的問題可能專業的經濟部或者是我們的談判小組來回答比較適合我們一定是全力配合不是配合 你們要了解這一點僑台商如果你們服務夠好 僑台商第一個會找到你們請教一下 我現在在印尼這個工場我準備挪1億美金去投資美國"},{"start":5580.625,"end":5585.208,"text":"這個有沒有算我們國家對美投資因為這個題目會決定下一題但是僑委會的立場我們不是主事的機關我們還是要以其他的像經濟部或者是談判小組我要你們去了解"},{"start":5595.959,"end":5621.39,"text":"Q&A要答得出來啊你Q&A都答不出來你怎麼服務橋台商答完之後說請找經貿辦請找經濟部國貿局他有他的業管單位但橋台商我從第三國移到美國去投資的時候有沒有列入我們國家對美投資這個很重要這牽涉到我們一開始那2500億台積電已經投資1600億了第二個他如果從第三國到美國投資信保金金"},{"start":5622.53,"end":5641.808,"text":"可不可以列入我們服務的對象是可以嘛所以這兩題是相關的如果我們今天有一個在印尼的橋台商他從印尼到美國去投資我們國家納稅人的信保基金縱使只有1.7%的成本潛在成本我去擔保他去美國他可以取得比較低的競爭優勢"},{"start":5643.109,"end":5662.641,"text":"那他到底有沒有列入我們對美投資問清楚啊如果沒有你可以提醒我們談判辦說這個要列進去啊這一旦列進去我們的信保海外信保基金等於變成整體國家的作戰而且我們國家的那2500億美金的信保是不是要把你們這個納入裡面"},{"start":5664.98,"end":5673.877,"text":"include列在額度裡面而不是列在外面因為光列在額度我看你們2025年就吃下了一億五千萬美金啊不錯啊"},{"start":5675.026,"end":5701.579,"text":"這不錯啊 這個減輕我們的負擔啊縱使就1.7% 1.4%也是一個負擔啊那個信保董事長知道我的意思嗎就是說這一個額度有沒有列入我們對美投資額度有 不錯啊第二個 他現在已經算是我們信保服務的客戶那我信保這一個額度有沒有列入那第二段2500億的美金的信保的額度裡面如果有更好 我現在在做就可以扣掉"},{"start":5702.503,"end":5711.385,"text":"你這樣懂我意思嗎那你們現在如果沒有答案請盡速回答本委員會跟本席這樣好不好好 謝謝委員的戰略思維我們就配合趕快來去這個好 謝謝接下來請黃仁黃仁 黃仁委員不在請林楚英委員上台質詢"},{"start":5732.2,"end":5735.461,"text":"謝謝主席 邀請李副委員長請副委員長副委員好第一次登板國防外交委員會謝謝委員這個但是我問的問題其實不算是新的題目喔因為去年差不多這個時間點我也詢問過徐嘉欣徐委員長那就是一旦我們這個來到了新春的時節其實也就是"},{"start":5759.611,"end":5777.045,"text":"我們的僑委會跟中國的這個對外的統戰部門的一個主力戰場去年我曾經有詢問過就是在他們的所謂春節大外宣的過程當中會有一個春節暖心包的贈送那麼今年是不是又開始發送"},{"start":5778.306,"end":5789.745,"text":"那麼今年的內容我們有沒有收到其他在海外橋接朋友的訊息他們的這個所謂春節暖心春暖心包大概內容有哪些那麼這些內容有精進嗎"},{"start":5794.455,"end":5797.858,"text":"謝謝謝謝委員的關心那委員長期很關心我們海外的僑團在這個第一線遇到的中國統戰跟滲透的威脅那確實我們的統戰中國的統戰大外宣是無時無刻不在那也跟委員報告其實不只是農曆春節期間他們全年都會利用一些特殊的時刻來做這些統戰的滲透"},{"start":5816.651,"end":5837.145,"text":"所以我們在第一線的橋界其實對於這個全防衛的這個韌性的因應還有這個平常的認知作戰的一些這個相關的概念的準備都是非常非常重要的那也跟委員報告其實依照我們最近接受到的這個橋情其實在非洲還有我們的北美"},{"start":5837.745,"end":5852.735,"text":"以及北美的媒體其實中領館還有相關的中國的駐館都已經有一些干擾或者是一些威脅的動作就是希望我們的橋團在過年期間或是重大節日的時候他們都透過滲透騷擾或者是一些不理性的行為希望我們不要派我們的"},{"start":5865.723,"end":5868.286,"text":"住處的長官來出席活動那利用這樣子來打壓我們的士氣好因為就像您剛所說的在非洲北美相關的這些就是外館其實現在中國確實大外宣或者是滲透或者是施壓我想海外不論是我們的外交部的外館住館"},{"start":5886.806,"end":5892.95,"text":"又或者是包括僑委會在內其實都可以感受得到他們的這種所謂步步逼近的脅迫是越來越強而且他們不只是花錢用錢的方式去買人心甚至於他會買選票中國會介入選舉的過程當中其實這個例子已經非常多了包括本席也找出在2025年的報導就是2023年蔡英文總統過境紐約的時候當時"},{"start":5914.244,"end":5918.505,"text":"時任這個周參議員的曲怡文就因為出席了我們的橋宴隔年他就直接讓他的支持者全體轉向讓他落選就像你講的也會希望我們的橋宴變得冷冷清清喔那在這個部分我們接下來面對中國的步步逼近尤其是新春期間因為現在距離過年其實剩下幾個禮拜那麼在這邊我們橋委會跟外交部有做好一些因應的方式嗎"},{"start":5942.352,"end":5951.798,"text":"因為我稍微查了一下喔其實我們來到2026年啦雖然說現在總預算也還沒有審但是我先看一下就是你們在橋界辦多元活動有1725萬但是對比喔如果拆分下來到我們這麼多個外館其實說實話要拚錢我們拚不贏"},{"start":5961.425,"end":5981.068,"text":"那麼你剛剛提到的包括加強所謂的防衛韌性加強訊息的揭露但是除此之外我們有沒有想到更好的方式甚至於在邀請的過程中現在有沒有面臨什麼樣的困難除了剛剛你提到的非洲北美被施壓要求選邊站之外"},{"start":5982.372,"end":5985.616,"text":"謝謝委員的關心那跟委員補充報告一下這個有關於暖心包的僑情我們目前是還沒有聽到今年有這樣的消息但是這並不代表沒有因為暖心包可能是這個一個活動而已那我們覺得我們也要做這樣的準備"},{"start":6000.034,"end":6021.978,"text":"就是中國的滲透是剛剛提到無所不在的而且無時無刻都會有所以今年也要因應可能會有的一些新的動作或者是他們有一些新的伎倆新的把戲之類的那剛剛跟委員報告的就是說我們要加強的部分除了全社會防衛任性之外其實全社會防衛任性去年在這個圓山飯店的僑委會的辦理的時候我們把全世界的僑委員召回來"},{"start":6025.799,"end":6028.641,"text":"然後我們模擬這個全社會防衛任性用這個來做主題那我們來分組來讓所有的僑委員進行討論讓他們沙盤推演遇到一些認知作戰攻擊或滲透的時候應該採取什麼樣的因應那也加強所有的僑團的垂直跟橫向的聯繫那我覺得這部分是平常要做而且是刻不容緩的事情那因為這個事情"},{"start":6048.854,"end":6051.255,"text":"去年的僑務委員會做了之後很多僑委員都覺得認同覺得成果不錯所以這樣子的全社會防衛任性的座談跟這個小局書的推廣現在他們已經回到了僑居國那分別在美國的休斯頓然後我知道還有一些好像好幾個地方"},{"start":6065.399,"end":6070.143,"text":"都已經陸陸續續的開始在橋居地他們辦理全社會防衛任性的座談跟推廣那這個目的就是要加強我們所有的橋台商跟橋民們這樣子的防衛任性的概念也就是說平常我們要做好心理準備不管是心理的武裝還是知識上的武裝都非常的有必要那同時我們在今年也會再增加譬如說我們的海華基金會會在橋深"},{"start":6091.821,"end":6115.197,"text":"回國的時候辦理校際交流跟提升僑生的防衛意識工作坊在緊急救難協助的部分還有全社會防衛任性的部分都加強的來補充還有在海外商會的幹部培訓的部分我們也會規劃全社會防衛任性的相關演練也就是說全社會防衛任性是我們政策性的要去重點"},{"start":6116.178,"end":6142.556,"text":"推广的部分我们希望藉由这样子的一个讲座还有一个这个有系统的把讯息传播出去让所有的侨团侨商还有这个侨生侨教界都能够认知到中国认知作战的威胁那对于这个假讯息还有对于这个网络駭客还有一些这个AI的生物技术这些新新科技因为他们需要随时更新新的资讯现在新的伎俩实在是太多了那"},{"start":6143.156,"end":6147.361,"text":"先建立這樣子的心理武裝之後隨時有訊息的時候我們也透過這樣的網路把最新中國可能的統戰方式及時的告知他們讓海外的第一線的僑情的接收能夠更順暢他們有知道有這樣的意識之後就能夠有提防然後比較快的能夠來做因應"},{"start":6160.936,"end":6174.384,"text":"好 其實我就是希望全社會防衛任性它不是只是一個名詞而是我們能夠具體的有步驟然後包括連在海外的橋台商包括我們的橋屋委員 橋屋諮詢委員其實都能夠納入這個整合的系統當中"},{"start":6179.127,"end":6199.114,"text":"另外一個我要關心的當然就是剛剛王定宇委員特別提到就是我們現在能夠談一下這個台美的關稅15%的這個部分我相信對於很多我們的中小企業跟產業都非常的重要那麼對於台積電對外的投資的部分當然不是只有美國2024年的時候我特別帶了訪問團到德勒斯登去喔那麼"},{"start":6204.236,"end":6209.24,"text":"他們德國包括最近來訪的德國國會議員也都非常關注德勒斯登的這一個所謂擴廠的計畫那麼我要強調的是我們現在在德國我查了一下我們僑務委員有3人僑務諮詢委員19人僑務顧問14人僑務促進委員是26人總計有62個人"},{"start":6227.617,"end":6255.28,"text":"但是我們的僑務秘書目前就是只有在法蘭克福跟柏林對不對但是其實你看一下這個地圖就知道其實德國非常的大我記得我當時從柏林我們一路坐車過去大概要坐個半天那麼言下之意就是當我們德勒斯登在進行建廠之後會有非常多的工程師及他的家眷包括他的家人他的小孩會到這裡來所以我要提醒的是"},{"start":6256.421,"end":6275.933,"text":"現在如果以我們做的人力部署包括我們橋外協助所謂的支援的這樣的人力上面是不是需要做一些調整比如說你現在在柏林或者是在法蘭克福只有各一位橋屋秘書那一旦有事情發生的時候該怎麼樣做連結"},{"start":6278.254,"end":6281.356,"text":"包括我們在現場其實當時我們去訪問的時候有非常多已經在德國發展我們的橋台商朋友也都到德勒斯登了那麼我教育會有教育部協助醫療相關的今天像衛福部其實也有派代表來"},{"start":6294.826,"end":6309.735,"text":"這都沒有問題但是在服務橋台商的部分在這裡 橋委會有沒有一個新的更多更精進而且協助來配合德勒斯登因為我們當然知道日本熊本也有但是因為日本真的離台灣近發生什麼事情一個飛機票幾個小時就回來"},{"start":6311.736,"end":6327.251,"text":"那麼美國的話因為我們前進美國的橋台商多大家協助的方式可能會更緊密但是歐洲尤其是德國確實連橋台商都比較少那在這個部分我提醒橋委會是不是可以有更多的思考"},{"start":6328.588,"end":6333.934,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝委員對僑務這麼深入的了解跟關心那確實因為我們預算跟人力有限所以我們的僑務秘書其實不只是德勒斯登很多地方其實都在叫人數就是人不夠人力不夠那包括現在我們在亞利桑那其實也是沒有僑務秘書"},{"start":6345.385,"end":6357.437,"text":"那我們在日本熊本其實也沒有只有這個駐地的辦公室當然是外交不兼的所以其實只要這個行政院可以或者是大院願意給我們更多的預算我們很願意做事情那這個新的趨勢新的移民現在這個氣候移民潮正在形成當中僑委會會隨時配合這個台灣的往外移的僑民的需要來做這個人力的重新部署"},{"start":6369.949,"end":6378.131,"text":"那就像您所說的不論是熊本或者是亞利桑那或是德勒斯登因為現在就是我們有即將就是這個廠要營運之後工程師及家眷會進去那麼現在事實這個狀況已經發生了我也建議僑委會是不是會後可以給我們一份評估報告那包括其實現在人力有限也不太可能馬上就讓行政院打開人力或者是資源的部分怎麼樣跟其他的部會做橫向的整合"},{"start":6397.817,"end":6405.742,"text":"以及人力的配置上面是不是可以有一個進一步的相關的研究或了解交給本會跟本席好 謝謝接下來請鍾嘉斌委員上台質詢"},{"start":6425.945,"end":6447.209,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進列系的政府機關首長官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請我們李副委員長還有我們衛福部的莊次長請副委員長 莊次長謝謝委員長副委員長好 次長好請問李副委員長來交會多久了"},{"start":6448.741,"end":6476.101,"text":"我去年9月1號也五個月了四個月那對於我們的僑務同仁都熟其實我跟你們的僑務同仁也很熟像我們的張處長浩君我大概十年前在越南就跟他見過面了是非常優秀的僑務工作人員我是覺得副委員長能夠到僑務務委員會來帶領這麼傑出的團隊應該都是彼此的福氣那我跟妳請教一下因為畢竟妳來那如果說對於僑務的部分還"},{"start":6477.462,"end":6484.991,"text":"需要進一步說明的可以請他們來幫忙如果您完全掌握了就直接說來請教一下請問副委員長華航為什麼要開執揮鳳凰城的航線那個台積電在鳳凰城在亞利桑那很好 簡單明瞭我們看一下"},{"start":6494.298,"end":6515.58,"text":"一旦台積電到那裡我們就看到了它目前的每週三班它鎖定的課員是包括半導體相關人員的設備商未來它要三月的時候它增到四班越來越多的工程人員會過去這成了一個空中走廊 我很好奇華航會不會太樂觀到底有多少人要去鳳凰城每週要去直飛委員長你看不看好這條航線 副委員長"},{"start":6517.512,"end":6524.578,"text":"事實上不只是華航新宇的航線也已經開了是的 所以不只華航有眼光新宇有眼光往下看其實台灣模式的產業它所聚集這麼多的台商你覺得它需要什麼樣的僑委會的服務呢"},{"start":6533.204,"end":6536.887,"text":"剛剛在委員還沒來之前其他委員有提到當我們的新僑民移居到美國或是亞利桑那新的地方之後需要的是一些子女的教育生活上的資訊社團的連結服務等等"},{"start":6550.58,"end":6578.278,"text":"所以你看嘛如果未來我們看到台積電它的派出人員估計到六千加券可能要一萬五有兩萬多人其他的上下游的供應鏈的廠商漢堂 帆軒 亞航也將近五千至於其他的我們就加加起來也不少這些的喬教需求可不可以舉一下例子喬委會目前在哪些國家設有我們的子弟學校或者說台灣學校你去過哪些越南的去過沒有胡志明"},{"start":6579.301,"end":6608.542,"text":"胡志明的我個人還沒有去過去過馬來西亞的馬來西亞的在哪裡台灣學校在吉隆坡在吉隆坡我也去了我也很開心的他們過去曾經在那裡辦國慶還升國旗我認為這很不簡單因為過去馬來西亞政府相當的傾向中國好 那沒有錯除了學校之外我們想一下看除了類似這樣的一個台灣學校之外住宿旅宿這個交通之外你認為我們的台商或台橋還會遇到什麼樣的需求"},{"start":6609.466,"end":6622.077,"text":"我覺得一落地之後可能譬如說找房子啊醫療啊或者是法律諮詢啊我不知道你有沒有聽過以前我在越南常常跑的時候台商只要一覺得身體有益第一件事情你就是衝醫院掛急診嗎應該不是他們是第一個去買機票"},{"start":6626.141,"end":6640.38,"text":"為什麼 因為回來台灣四個小時比較保險而且有我們龐大的健保傑出的醫療團隊包括我們裝飾廠待會就會說了嘛就買機票那你覺得未來到鳳凰城台上如果有這種情況他可以說身體不舒服趕快買機票回台灣來嗎"},{"start":6641.81,"end":6667.374,"text":"應該是有困難有困難 那怎麼辦呢我們來看一下今天我們衛務部提供了一個解方這是我在2022年的時候跟那時候的越南的台商總會長檢總會長還有前面好幾任的總會長他們在推動什麼推動所謂一個叫做通訊診療 診察醫療辦法來 我們請莊次長來看一看然後對不起 還沒往然後接著在2023年的1月10號我們還在"},{"start":6671.966,"end":6693.505,"text":"衛福部我就去質詢了後來在這個推動之下請問一下那個次長那時候你在疾管局嗎我覺得薛副部長那時候是9月28號您在在疾管署我們在那邊開一個會你有印象嗎我沒有在當場這個會議但是你了解這個通訊診治療辦法對 因為在"},{"start":6696.667,"end":6719.626,"text":"2024年7月1號就上路了是的而且那時候你們增加了五類過去有沒有包括在海外工作的國人以前沒有沒有後來把台商納進去了是所以後來我再到了2024年的3月15號我在衛生行為我也做了質詢結果你們5月20號就開始有記者會宣導7月1號正式上路這裡面有好多家醫療機構能統統參與市長你覺得這樣的一個診療辦法在疫情期間"},{"start":6725.611,"end":6744.076,"text":"本來就有後來擴大使用你覺得可以怎麼樣的服務更多的國人目前其實我們有在目前其實就是通訊診療那的確有它的必要尤其是在離島跟偏鄉的部分但是因為我們國內其實很多"},{"start":6745.396,"end":6772.879,"text":"我們健保其實醫療院所都在所以就可能就比較那我們喬台商呢喬包跟台商目前就是其實就在7月2號就台商其實就跟同中和那邊其實應該就開了一個記者會所以那個時候他其實自費因為限於健保法的規定就是說我們國人在外面如果有緊急的一個疾病那次可以回來退就是核退但是其他的部分可能就要自費我跟副委員長"},{"start":6773.379,"end":6781.737,"text":"我想說明一下這個有一個精神很重要因為原來的這些僑胞或台商他如果在國內就有原來的慢性病原來的疾病有就診"},{"start":6782.745,"end":6806.17,"text":"那他在原來的診療的關係上他可以透過這樣的通訊診療能夠在海外也可以得到什麼慢性命處方菌的繼續開立所以副委員長這樣了解所以第一個我們最先試辦的是越南然後再來就是馬來西亞聽說三月後要到菲律賓去請問委員長你會不會繼續往其他各個橋界去推動"},{"start":6809.663,"end":6831.553,"text":"謝謝委員的關心如果這個橋台商有需要聽到行程反應我們都很願意來推動好 那我們來幫你看一下其實這裡面包含的呢也次長看一下這裡面不是只有海外工作的國人它其實包括國內的這些因為除了三地離島偏鄉還有一些在矯正機關的受刑人因為他們"},{"start":6832.273,"end":6848.408,"text":"沒有行動自由過去都要借戶送衣 對不對借戶送衣 所以很麻煩我們往下看那現在你看一看這是衛福部你們過去在馬來西亞 越南都做了好 往下看來 請次長接下來請教次長 來再往下一頁"},{"start":6848.959,"end":6877.267,"text":"所以未來有沒有繼續往通訊機關矯正機關的通訊診療你們有沒有繼續在做報委員 目前其實是有的目前有針對精神科跟體護科是有透過這個通訊診療方式來做這個需要長期的追蹤的但是我們也知道一些心血管疾病一些慢性病現在高齡化很多矯正機關裡面的受刑人本身年事偏高經常像這種氣溫急劇變化就經常要緊急送醫"},{"start":6877.907,"end":6906.286,"text":"他如果能夠得到平常定期的追蹤診施是不是比較好對不過目前其實他們都有這些都有醫師在那邊那個是醫務所醫務所裡面那麼多分科而且看的不是你原來的醫師所以未來如果能夠把這個慣法推廣到矯正機關跟法務部合作你樂不樂見未來我們的全民健保這麼優秀的醫療體制可以讓這些在矯正機關裡面它可以延續在原來在外面得到的醫療機構的照顧跟服務"},{"start":6908.087,"end":6935.683,"text":"對 我們可以再跟那個法務部這邊再來針對這個部分那我再告訴你目前大概只有兩所監所啦再往下看所以最後我們結論結論說喬回這邊我想你們已經做得很好我們就持續的擴大推動尤其是未來像鳳凰城像北美洲的部分如果有這個通訊診療辦法那麼原來本來在台灣工作的這些勞心勞力的這些我們說的爆肝族他們要在那邊繼續有他們的健康需要維護"},{"start":6936.824,"end":6940.369,"text":"善用這個方法能夠讓他們得到同樣台灣健保"},{"start":6941.148,"end":6964.947,"text":"制度的照顧那也拜託衛福部次長現在台灣有51所的矯正機關目前你們只有兩個部分而且只有合作精神跟皮膚科有沒有考慮把這樣的一個辦法繼續擴大推動因為這都是法務部他們出的錢所以如果他們有需求進來還有他們要出錢你們樂於接受對不對那我會幫你保證我會去通訪衛福部做要求那也謝謝副委員長也謝謝次長 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝"},{"start":6972.239,"end":6979.904,"text":"接下來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在請林益君委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請衛福部次長請次長委員好"},{"start":6998.648,"end":7015.962,"text":"市長好 首先我本席先繼續追問有關食藥署事後緊急病要轉類為只是用藥的去年12月19號的時候根據食藥署回覆本席辦公室表示已經在114年3月4月的時候分別都召開了專家會議必於12月再次召開會議討論這個事辦計畫供應的事法性還有探討"},{"start":7023.448,"end":7027.55,"text":"然後經過這些專家討論認為增進緊急事後病癮藥的可進性這些都還要再進一步的研議然後預計115年將持續召開會議取得各界的共識但是我想這個事情就是連我們最友好的日本鄰近的國家也都在114年8月29號專家會議中正式決議將緊急事後病癮藥由處方藥轉類為指示用藥批准事後病癮藥"},{"start":7052.924,"end":7062.176,"text":"可以非處方用藥方式的販賣開放女性可以就直接在藥局直接購買是先進醫藥國家中最後一個轉類為指示用藥的國家那為什麼衛福部的政策"},{"start":7068.984,"end":7073.226,"text":"食藥署105年到現在已經10年了一直在開會分別在召開緊急事後必應藥轉為只是用藥的可行性的專家的會議還有緊急事後必應藥用藥安全及可進行的事辦分享會議一直到現在都已經10年了為什麼沒有辦法執行"},{"start":7091.536,"end":7096.1,"text":"而且還沒有取得共識是因為開放緊急事後併用藥轉類為指示用藥是不是會影響某些特定的團體的利益呢所以不願意開放呢因為我想也在民調中我也去看過民調的表示就是社會團體還有女性在這民調上面都顯示七八成是完全贊成同意的"},{"start":7115.374,"end":7118.957,"text":"那為什麼衛福部食藥署到現在還不願意開放呢那哪時候要開放呢哪時候要開完專家會議呢到底要拖到什麼時候才可以我們台灣跟國際接軌包委員那這個部分因為它涉及的方面比較廣泛所以"},{"start":7134.511,"end":7159.556,"text":"上次12月開過會之後目前是希望說可以委辦計畫就是來做這個可進行的一個事辦計畫這個部分當然就是主要這邊會牽涉到兒少團體家長團體婦女團體還有醫界藥界這邊其實他們都有不同的聲音那另外剛剛委員這邊講到日本的部分日本他應該是把它列為需指導藥品"},{"start":7160.896,"end":7166.323,"text":"虛指導不是處方藥應該是虛指導藥品的部分虛指導藥品當然不是處方藥現在就是處方藥要轉類成指示用藥讓大家方便便民大家可以到藥局來購買你現在還是處方藥那就沒有用了因為現在先進的國家都已經把它轉類成指示用藥"},{"start":7180.379,"end":7183.1,"text":"已經有88個國家都這樣那請問一下台灣的醫療一直說要國際接軌一直要進步為什麼這一個政策就可以這樣耽誤了10年呢主要這邊似乎還有一些配套措施需要一些發展比如說它必須要記錄這些每個個案如果未來到只是用藥要有記錄第二個就是那個場域規劃因為有些是未成年那個隱私的問題"},{"start":7208.506,"end":7222.089,"text":"沒關係這是整個是配套的措施這個沒有關係這個就是事辦計畫裡面的細節但是好既然我們要事辦計畫跟日本一樣日本也是這樣一步一步的推行的我也知道但是如果說我們現在就是要事辦計畫到底什麼時候要事辦計畫從去年講到現在要事辦計畫到現在都還沒有那請問一下什麼時候要事辦計畫什麼時候還要再召開專家會議"},{"start":7232.391,"end":7237.296,"text":"主要是今年115年我目前知道就是115年我們會有一個委辦計畫來做好 那要盡快不要再讓我們再等10年是好 謝謝那我再繼續請教一下次長美國商務部在15日的時候有達成貿易的協定就是將美國的商品關稅稅率降低15%看起來其實是有助於台灣醫療的產業的外銷的發展"},{"start":7258.815,"end":7262.717,"text":"但最主要的問題是台灣現在的經濟規模比較小整個的製藥上面的藥廠的量人其實是普遍的不足的所以我們的製藥業其實整個就是為了零關稅其實大部分都想要把藥品外銷到美國去這樣現在你也知道台灣現在幾乎都在缺藥的情況下"},{"start":7280.043,"end":7284.687,"text":"如果是這個情況的話衛福部要如何保證國內的製藥產業在希望政府的協助擴大外銷的同時又可以保障我們國內的藥品供給無虞呢目前應該是藥品美國有關藥品部應該還沒有有稅嘛"},{"start":7302.29,"end":7316.14,"text":"像是零關稅但是大家都想要過去這樣的話是不是有大家他們有想要組成一個製藥國家隊但是如果都過去的話台灣在缺藥的情況下我們現在其實很多原廠藥原廠藥他們因為有其他學名藥所以沒有"},{"start":7321.164,"end":7324.806,"text":"所以現在我們是國內市上有相當多的學名藥可以來補這一塊我說的是缺藥的品項有些缺藥品項就是因為國外原廠藥已經沒有了沒有的情況下我們現在這些藥可能只有那個原廠藥但是台灣開始要來輔導這些國內的製藥業去成為一個就是這個藥的學名藥要開始開發但是才能因應這些缺藥的情況"},{"start":7351.598,"end":7376.575,"text":"對 所以我們現在就是希望說能夠就是針對未來有可能缺藥的部分要強化預警另外也要提升我們的儲備量還有就是在地製造我們希望說讓我們國內的藥廠可以增加製造學名藥這個部分最後就是希望能夠確保藥價就不要砍太低這個我們會跟健保署這邊一起來配合"},{"start":7376.915,"end":7390.336,"text":"是是 藥價是千萬不能砍太低現在真的是都沒有藥可以救命了所以希望那個次長可以多多幫忙一下好不好好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 那接下來我請副委員長請副委員長"},{"start":7397.312,"end":7401.335,"text":"委員好副委員長你知道花東地區其實在地的特產的商品中其實很多是天然而且是無毒的還有原名特色的產品都是非常文明的像我的舉例就是像薄皮辣椒啦花蓮薯啦麻薯還有瑞穗香五合的蜜香紅茶還有咖啡最主要還有優質的有機米文旦柴魚片這些還有很多原住民手工的文創的藝品都是非常有當地特色的然後"},{"start":7427.632,"end":7431.654,"text":"大家也知道僑委會這幾年都是有舉辦台灣觀光產業商機的參訪團所以僑委會邀集了全球六大洲的僑台商回到台灣來參與都希望藉著這樣國際網路好協助拓展台灣的觀光產業的全球版圖"},{"start":7448.664,"end":7450.025,"text":"那我想請教委員長就是當時僑委會有沒有帶著這些僑胞企業去過花東呢有沒有爭過對花東的有機農業舉辦過專屬的媒合呢"},{"start":7459.438,"end":7464.282,"text":"報告委員有的那也很高興跟您分享因為去年的這個2025台灣觀光產業商機參訪團我們其實就是拉到花蓮去也在花蓮的這個原住民的文化館有辦活動跟座談會那那一場呢因為我自己親自有參加所以我知道現場的單位呢其實是從宜蘭縣政府"},{"start":7481.074,"end":7494.365,"text":"花蓮縣政府到台東縣政府還有我們所有的國家公園的管理處那以及農業部都有代表參加那所以我們媒合了地方政府還有中央部會以及國家公園的觀光資源我們介紹給這個觀光產業來自全世界的業者那希望他們能夠多多來推廣我們花東充滿這個觀光商機的這個產業天然的景色還有我們有很多有機的農業漁業"},{"start":7509.136,"end":7511.157,"text":"有一些非常好的精緻的農漁產品都很適合在觀光旅遊的業務上面來做推廣好 謝謝希望以後有更多的機會因為我們花東地區其實很多小農與創作家其實都缺乏外銷的通路"},{"start":7526.443,"end":7532.644,"text":"而橋台商在海外都是擁有很多商店還有物流網有的還經營連鎖的餐飲店所以我們花東其實種植很好的單生紅藜這些都是很好的養生食材所以希望這個是橋委會的業務之一希望能夠讓可以像橋台商也可以代理花東的優質產品然後也可以幫忙橋商轉型可以幫忙台東和花蓮在台灣花蓮這整個的"},{"start":7552.728,"end":7556.431,"text":"經濟好希望能夠創造雙雙贏好嗎謝謝謝謝委員我們全力來做謝謝謝謝林玉君委員接下來請陳冠廷委員上台質詢請副委員長"},{"start":7585.814,"end":7598.875,"text":"委員好委員長好那個今委內瑞拉的總統馬杜洛他在月初他是遭到美國逮捕那委內瑞拉的政局是呈現比較不穩的局面"},{"start":7599.525,"end":7624.376,"text":"那就這一個我們的掌握 僑業會的掌握目前委內瑞拉有多少台商狀況為何更委員報告這個委內瑞拉的事情其實全世界都很震驚那這個目前呢根據我們的情報還有我們的訊息我們在當地其實我們的僑胞都是安全的也沒有傳出什麼特別的"},{"start":7626.217,"end":7652.794,"text":"這個事件發生那我們當然密切的在注意當中那跟駐外單位的聯繫的管道也很暢通那也隨時有最新的訊息的話他們都會回報那啟動這個必要的協助措施那現在在委內瑞拉的台商數目大概是多少啊就你們掌握的狀況是數十數百人還是大概這一個量體是多大"},{"start":7654.629,"end":7674.897,"text":"跟委員報告當地我們台商的人數其實不多有一些其實沒有跟橋委會定期在做聯繫所以我們就比較不容易能夠第一時間馬上掌握他們的行蹤但是我們透過駐外館還有我們當地的橋台商的駐點我們都跟他們保持密切的聯繫"},{"start":7676.058,"end":7702.419,"text":"OK好那另外一个部分也是在中南美洲我们的另外一个前邦交国这个洪都拉斯那洪都拉斯现在有进取已经有确认选出新的总统那这位新的总统选签也都支持恢复跟台湾的外交关系那就你的掌握洪都拉斯在我们断交之后还有多少台商在那边不要现在他们经营的产业违和"},{"start":7705.68,"end":7708.321,"text":"跟委員報告我們在宏都拉斯的我們在宏都拉斯的橋台商主要是以傳產跟貿易業為主那這個訊息在前兩天的新聞就是宏都拉斯的新任的總統他想要跟台北恢復邦交我們有看到這個新聞但是在這個橋台商界我們目前還沒有進一步的訊息"},{"start":7730.512,"end":7736.143,"text":"那如果說接下來我們的橋台商在宏都拉斯有任何需要的話我們這邊橋委會的平台都可以隨時來替他們聯繫"},{"start":7740.59,"end":7764.161,"text":"台湾跟宏都纳斯过去最大的贸易是水产的白虾那当然2023年他们跟我们断交之后他们的这一个产量总是因为中国的这种虚假的这一个承诺那导致他们出口是骤减那甚至会影响到他们的升级那我们是认为说未来这几年那如果我们台湾"},{"start":7764.821,"end":7780.493,"text":"跟宏都拉斯會恢復關係之後那我們希望經營相關產業的台商能夠獲得這個交易會的這種資訊上面的提供資訊上面的提供或者是其他接洽交流那來去"},{"start":7781.013,"end":7807.515,"text":"准备好应对未来的外交上可能会遇到的这个变动那当然我们现在是非常希望积极的能够跟宏都拉斯能够有进一步的伙伴关系那这一部分不管是传产还是这些水产我们都希望说能够尽快的来协助他们让我们的台商能够在这边能够有更好的机会那再来就是针对乔屋电子报的成效那"},{"start":7808.615,"end":7812.563,"text":"我看橋尾會都會透過各種媒介來提供給喬武的訊息"},{"start":7813.632,"end":7838.922,"text":"那我们在看乔屋电子报的时候107年到10年他的网网路的访客平均是有逐年上升的这点是好的但是这个我们来看到如果只是看数字的话当然就有上升可是如果你看绝对数字的话有一些活动他的影片经过数个月有些时候是数十人就是观看人次"},{"start":7839.702,"end":7857.135,"text":"那对于这种不管是乔屋探索云、乔生求职的分享、乔屋工作的分享那你们有什么样的计划或怎么样的策略让有更多的这一个相关的人士、关心的人士能够有机会去接触到你们的这些管道"},{"start":7858.032,"end":7864.696,"text":"好謝謝委員的關心那也跟委員利用這個機會報告其實對於全球的橋台商 橋民 橋社來說這個橋委會對外的資訊傳播平台是非常非常的重要那這個橋委會對海外的傳播資訊的平台從最早期的宏觀電視一直到現在橋屋電子報那跟委員報告的是現在還有很多新興的媒體所以除了橋屋電子報之外我們在四大社群平台分別是Facebook Instagram"},{"start":7889.033,"end":7912.588,"text":"X還有這個還有一個是LINE我們都建立了社群的組織那在YouTube上面也有我們的影片的帳號的平台那我們就是希望說透過新興的網路的傳播媒體來結合那僑物電子報今年呢我們也有計劃要把它改版那跟委員報告的是您看到的數字可能是在這個"},{"start":7913.669,"end":7916.551,"text":"COVID的期間因為COVID的期間我們有一段時間海外的業務推展相當的不容易所以那段時間我們的這個執行率有所降低但是那個執行率的降低其實不是僑委會本身的業務而是我們委外的一些傳媒的相關業務那這是在發生在這個111年的時候"},{"start":7935.106,"end":7939.369,"text":"那經過COVID之後呢這幾年我們的執行率還有我們的宣傳的效益其實都一直在提升那我們也不斷的希望能夠精進我們對海外的宣傳的管道譬如說透過社群譬如說透過一些LINE的後台來強化對於橋台商的聯繫跟組織那希望以後這些網路的通訊媒體跟新興科技能夠發揮更大的功能來協助我們在第一時間"},{"start":7962.163,"end":7963.065,"text":"給這個海外的橋台商僑民僑胞們最新的訊息好謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":7971.628,"end":7995.163,"text":"好 謝謝今天已經登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有陳永康委員黃仁委員以及許巧欣委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報委員書面及口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者請僑委會以書面於兩週內答覆"},{"start":7996.744,"end":8012.784,"text":"委員有指定期限者從期鎖定本次會議議事錄尋往歷授權由主席核定後確定我們確認今天的議事錄那本次會議到此結束三會謝謝大家辛苦了謝謝"},{"start":8029.804,"end":8056.954,"text":"響鐘"}]}},{"id":"167315","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167315","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a889323d900e1a72e3c5ca6c4b86dd6b28f9da39f225449bb572cfcc21c557743ff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"10:23:24 - 10:32:26","影片長度":"00:09:02","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「面對全球經貿變局挑戰，如何協輔僑臺商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:23:24+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:32:26+08:00","duration":542,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":7.759718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.24909375,"end":10.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.10096875,"end":13.699718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.222843750000003,"end":15.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.52221875,"end":16.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.37846875,"end":17.918468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.340343750000002,"end":21.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.52534375,"end":24.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.80346875,"end":25.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.32659375,"end":26.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.23784375,"end":26.254718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.28846875,"end":28.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.32596875,"end":29.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.39346875,"end":29.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.47784375,"end":50.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.49471875,"end":29.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.43534375,"end":31.469093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.48596875,"end":31.620968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.20096875,"end":46.673468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.212843750000005,"end":56.579093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.16971875,"end":58.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.19909375,"end":60.477218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.945343750000006,"end":65.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.99534375,"end":90.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.02909375,"end":66.09659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.40909375000001,"end":94.59846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.59846875000001,"end":105.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.47846875,"end":124.53471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.51596875000001,"end":110.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.82659375,"end":121.81784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.18471875,"end":123.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.53471875000001,"end":129.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.90096875,"end":149.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.69534375,"end":150.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.11284375,"end":152.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.22221875,"end":156.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.87596875,"end":157.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.23846875,"end":158.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.55471875,"end":178.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.24784375000002,"end":182.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.31034375000002,"end":189.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.61784375000002,"end":197.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.45284375,"end":189.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.63721875000002,"end":198.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.31221875,"end":207.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.72846875000002,"end":208.58909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.67346875,"end":210.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.54659375,"end":211.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.18346875,"end":214.93409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.50784375,"end":216.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.41909375,"end":233.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.32346875000002,"end":244.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.39784375000002,"end":244.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.78159375,"end":247.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.09784375,"end":248.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.78534375,"end":250.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.73409375000003,"end":256.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.02471875000003,"end":257.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.07096875,"end":261.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.97784375000003,"end":259.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.47534375000004,"end":264.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.56346875,"end":268.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.38596875,"end":266.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.44909375000003,"end":267.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.68096875000003,"end":269.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.96346875,"end":273.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.03471875,"end":276.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.93721875,"end":276.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.13971875000004,"end":281.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.68784375,"end":279.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.93659375000004,"end":279.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.25284375,"end":281.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.86034375,"end":281.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.97846875,"end":303.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.07971875000004,"end":282.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.56346875,"end":291.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.05096875000004,"end":319.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.20471875000004,"end":322.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.82034375,"end":325.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.28846875,"end":323.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.19534375,"end":345.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.74096875000004,"end":344.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.32721875000004,"end":356.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.68409375000005,"end":363.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.83909375,"end":367.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.77096875,"end":372.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.39471875000004,"end":380.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.34659375,"end":388.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.67909375000005,"end":405.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.26284375,"end":408.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.13159375000004,"end":412.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.65846875000005,"end":413.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.90721875,"end":421.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.83846875,"end":425.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.49596875000003,"end":429.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.99346875000003,"end":437.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.33846875,"end":435.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.26221875000005,"end":444.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.61221875,"end":439.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.87284375,"end":456.95534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.34346875000006,"end":457.79909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.93409375000005,"end":458.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.96346875,"end":461.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.52846875,"end":461.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.54534375000003,"end":461.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.57909375,"end":481.81221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.83159375,"end":466.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.94721875000005,"end":481.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.96409375,"end":483.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.02721875000003,"end":489.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.22534375000004,"end":484.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.73159375000006,"end":485.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.19909375000003,"end":491.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.85284375000003,"end":510.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.68534375,"end":528.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.20159375,"end":535.5928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.26034375,"end":531.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.3484687499999,"end":540.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.6553437499999,"end":540.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.84096875,"end":540.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.97596875,"end":541.53284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.109,"end":2.95,"text":"有請我們李副委員長還有我們衛福部的莊次長請副委員長莊次長謝謝委員長副委員長好次長好請問李副委員長來交會多久了"},{"start":22.748,"end":50.125,"text":"我去年9月1號也五個月了四個月那對我們的僑務同仁都熟啦其實我跟你們的僑務同仁也很熟像我們的張處長浩君我大概十年前在越南就跟他見過面了是非常優秀的僑務工作人員我是覺得副委員長能夠到僑務委員會來帶領這麼傑出的團隊應該都是彼此的福氣那我跟妳請教一下因為畢竟妳來那如果說對於僑務的部分還"},{"start":51.486,"end":65.659,"text":"需要進一步說明的可以請他們來幫忙如果您完全掌握了就直接說來請教一下請問副委員長華航會不會要開執揮鳳凰城的航線那個台積電在鳳凰城在亞利桑那"},{"start":66.038,"end":90.509,"text":"很好 簡單明瞭我們看一下一旦台積電到那裡我們就看到了它目前的每週三班它鎖定的課員是包括半導體相關人員的設備商未來它要3月的時候它增到四班越來越多的工程人員會過去這成了一個空中走廊 我很好奇華航會不會太樂觀到底有多少人要去鳳凰城每週要去直飛委員長你看不看好這條航線 副委員長"},{"start":91.539,"end":99.084,"text":"事實上不只是華航新宇的航線也已經開了是的所以不只華航有眼光新宇有眼光我們往下看其實台灣模式的產業它所聚集這麼多的台商你覺得它需要什麼樣的僑委會的服務呢"},{"start":107.231,"end":110.535,"text":"剛剛在委員還沒來之前其他委員有提到當我們的新僑民移居到美國或是亞利桑那新的地方之後需要的是一些子女的教育或是生活上的資訊社團的連結服務等等"},{"start":124.591,"end":152.302,"text":"所以你看嘛如果未來我們看到台積電它的派出人員估計到六千加券可能要一萬五有兩萬多人其他的上下游的供應鏈的廠商漢堂 帆軒 亞航也將近五千至於其他的我們就加加起來也不少這些的喬教需求可不可以舉一下例子喬委會目前在哪些國家設有我們的子弟學校或者說台灣學校你去過哪些越南的去過沒有胡志明"},{"start":153.328,"end":182.552,"text":"胡志明的我個人還沒有去過我去過馬來西亞的馬來西亞的在哪裡台灣學校在吉隆坡在吉隆坡我也去了我也很開心的他們過去曾經在那裡辦國慶還升國旗我認為這很不簡單因為過去馬來西亞政府相當的傾向中國好 那沒有錯除了學校之外我們想一下看除了類似這樣的一個台灣學校之外住宿旅宿這個交通之外你認為我們的台商或台橋還會遇到什麼樣的需求"},{"start":183.476,"end":195.719,"text":"我覺得一落地之後可能譬如說找房子啊醫療啊或者是法律諮詢啊我不知道你有沒有聽過以前我在越南常常跑的時候台商只要一覺得身體有益第一件事情你就是衝醫院掛急診嗎應該不是他們是第一個去買機票為什麼因為回來台灣四個小時比較保險而且有我們龐大的健保傑出的醫療團隊包括我們莊次長待會就會說了嘛"},{"start":207.822,"end":232.471,"text":"就買機票那妳覺得未來到鳳凰城台商如果有這種情況他可以說哎呀 身體不舒服趕快買機票回台灣來嗎應該是有困難有困難 那怎麼辦呢我們來看一下今天我們衛福部提供了一個解方這是我在2022年的時候跟那時候的越南的台商總會長簡總會長還有前面好幾任的總會長他們在推動什麼推動所謂一個叫做通訊"},{"start":235.481,"end":250.315,"text":"診療 診察醫療辦法來 我們請莊次長來看一看然後呢 對不起 還沒往然後呢 接著呢在2023年的1月10號我們還在衛福部我們 我就去質詢了後來呢 在這個推動之下呢"},{"start":252.965,"end":269.236,"text":"请问一下那个次长那时候你在疾管局吗我觉得薛副部长那时候是9月28号您在嘛在疾管署嘛我们在那边开一个会嘛你有印象吗我没有在当场这个会议啦但是你了解这个通讯诊查治疗办法对因为在"},{"start":270.677,"end":293.634,"text":"2024年7月1號就上路了嘛是的而且那時候你們增加了五類嘛過去有沒有包括在海外工作的國人沒有後來把台商納進去了嘛所以呢後來我再到了2024年的3月15號我在衛生行會我也做了質詢結果你們5月20號就開始有記者會宣導7月1號正式上路這裡面有好多家醫療機構能統統參與市長你覺得這樣的一個診療辦法在疫情期間"},{"start":299.638,"end":318.103,"text":"本來就有後來擴大使用你覺得可以怎麼樣的服務更多的國人呢目前其實我們有在目前其實就是通訊診療那的確有它的的必要尤其是在這個離島跟偏鄉的部分但是因為我們國內其實很多這個"},{"start":319.423,"end":347.176,"text":"我們健保其實醫療院所都在啦所以就可能就比較那我們喬台商呢喬包跟台商目前就是其實就在7月2號就台商其實就跟同中和那邊其實應該就開了一個記者會所以那個時候他其實自費因為限於健保法的規定就是說我們國人在外面如果有緊急的一個疾病喔那是可以回來退就是核退啦但是其他的部分可能就要自費我跟副委員長跟次長說明一下"},{"start":348.397,"end":355.752,"text":"這個有一個精神很重要因為原來的這些僑胞或台商他如果在國內就有原來的慢性病原來的疾病有就診"},{"start":356.755,"end":380.203,"text":"那他在原來的診療的關係上他可以透過這樣的通訊診療能夠在海外也可以得到什麼慢性命處方菌的繼續開立所以副委員長這樣了解所以第一個我們最先試辦的是越南然後呢再來就是馬來西亞聽說三月頭要到菲律賓去請問委員長您會不會繼續往其他各個橋界去推動"},{"start":383.67,"end":405.58,"text":"謝謝委員的關心如果這個橋台商有需要聽到行程反應我們都很願意來推動好 那我們來幫你看一下其實這裡面包含的呢也次長看一下這裡面不是只有海外工作的國人它其實包括國內的這些因為除了山地 離島 偏鄉還有一些在矯正機關的受刑人因為他們"},{"start":406.3,"end":422.415,"text":"沒有行動自由過去都要借戶送醫對不對 借戶送醫所以很麻煩 我們往下看那現在呢 你看看這是衛福部你們過去呢在馬來西亞 越南都做了好 往下看來 請次長接下來請教次長 來再往下一頁"},{"start":422.987,"end":451.277,"text":"所以未來有沒有繼續往通訊機關矯正機關的通訊診療你們有沒有繼續在做報委員 目前其實是有的目前有針對精神科跟體務科是有透過這個通訊診療方式來做這個需要長期的追蹤的但是我們也知道一些心血管疾病一些慢性病現在高齡化很多矯正機關裡面的受刑人本身年事偏高經常像這種氣溫急劇變化就經常要緊急送醫"},{"start":451.937,"end":480.296,"text":"他如果能夠得到平常定期的追蹤診施是不是比較好對不過目前其實他們都有這些都有醫師在那邊那個是醫務所啦醫務所裡面那麼多分科啦而且看的不是你原來的醫師啦所以未來如果能夠把這個慣法推廣到矯正機關跟法務部合作你樂不樂見未來我們的全民健保這麼優秀的醫療體制可以讓這些在矯正機關裡面他可以延續在原來在外面得到的醫療機構的照顧跟服務"},{"start":482.117,"end":511.637,"text":"對 我們可以再跟那個法務部這邊再來針對這個部分那我再告訴你目前大概只有兩所監所啦再往下看所以呢 最後我們結論結論說喬回這邊我想你們已經做得很好我們就持續的擴大推動尤其是未來像鳳凰城像北美洲的部分如果有這個通訊診療辦法那麼原來本來在台灣工作的這些勞心勞力的這些我們說的爆肝族他們要在那邊繼續有他們的健康需要維護善用這個方法"},{"start":512.157,"end":541.397,"text":"能够让他们得到同样台湾健保的制度的照顾那也拜托卫福部次长现在呢台湾有51所的矫正机关目前你们只有两个部分而且只有合作精神跟皮肤科有没有考虑把这样的一个办法继续扩大推动这个因为这都是法务部他们出的钱所以如果他们有需求进来还有他们要出你们乐于接受对不对好那我会帮你保证我会去通常不做要求那也谢谢副委员长也谢谢次长谢谢谢谢委员谢谢"},{"start":541.817,"end":541.852,"text":"谢谢观看"}]}},{"id":"167314","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167314","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88796b3c71fa483f4652fd623850d83d5b9da39f225449bb572cfcc21c557743ff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"10:18:48 - 10:30:00","影片長度":"00:11:12","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:18:48+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:30:00+08:00","duration":672,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.84096875,"end":3.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.77284375,"end":42.471593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.99909375,"end":15.336593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.20534375,"end":18.610343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.88221875,"end":34.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.893468750000004,"end":46.977218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.399093750000006,"end":52.680968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.001593750000005,"end":71.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.203468750000006,"end":58.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.85096875,"end":78.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.99409375,"end":75.63096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.88784375,"end":91.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.59034375,"end":104.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.70846875000001,"end":92.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.04159375,"end":94.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.23096875,"end":98.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.17971875,"end":103.27221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.60534375,"end":106.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.74846875,"end":115.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.27971875,"end":109.73534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.27034375000001,"end":130.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.29971875000001,"end":116.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.55096875,"end":174.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.23784375,"end":134.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.81971875000002,"end":137.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.64784375000002,"end":156.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.88221875000002,"end":169.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.78846875000002,"end":175.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.46346875,"end":203.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.75971875000002,"end":198.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.85596875000002,"end":201.87284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.88971875000001,"end":207.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.66971875000002,"end":205.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.87221875,"end":218.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.92096875000001,"end":229.54784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.96721875,"end":220.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.20284375000003,"end":223.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.43846875000003,"end":227.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.70409375000003,"end":232.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.27346875,"end":235.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.20971875,"end":234.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.15034375000002,"end":236.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.73659375000003,"end":237.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.30596875,"end":239.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.40284375000002,"end":250.62471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.31346875000003,"end":244.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.67596875,"end":246.86159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.87784375,"end":253.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.32471875000002,"end":253.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.71284375000002,"end":258.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.10096875000002,"end":255.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.97346875,"end":269.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.87909375000004,"end":269.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.89596875,"end":282.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.80534375,"end":284.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.05846875000003,"end":284.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.52659375,"end":293.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.03596875,"end":313.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.57971875000004,"end":299.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.40596875,"end":301.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.10846875000004,"end":321.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.82471875000005,"end":321.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.24659375000005,"end":333.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.76784375,"end":376.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.27721875000003,"end":341.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.82034375,"end":349.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.33471875000004,"end":379.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.38096875,"end":387.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.30409375000005,"end":399.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.18971875,"end":388.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.07096875,"end":392.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.29346875000005,"end":439.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.84971875,"end":404.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.48909375000005,"end":417.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.67034375000003,"end":417.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.96221875000003,"end":441.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.71284375000005,"end":468.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.75346875,"end":452.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.77721875000003,"end":464.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.64159375,"end":485.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.85784375000003,"end":488.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.03909375,"end":488.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.62971875000005,"end":489.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.14846875,"end":491.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.34221875000003,"end":504.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.35284375000003,"end":506.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.83784375000005,"end":518.7178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.52971875000003,"end":508.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.7178437499999,"end":522.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.69596875,"end":526.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.88534375,"end":537.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.93034375,"end":580.3115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.93596875,"end":590.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.6897187500001,"end":604.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.0347187500001,"end":597.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.57784375,"end":610.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.5603437500001,"end":619.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.0747187500001,"end":611.3447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.7578437500001,"end":614.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.8159687500001,"end":619.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.28846875,"end":620.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.30534375,"end":620.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.32221875,"end":641.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.94784375,"end":652.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.64659375,"end":651.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.8953437499999,"end":657.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.46034375,"end":654.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.5022187500001,"end":664.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.8815937500001,"end":660.3328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.8134687500001,"end":664.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.48409375,"end":665.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.39471875,"end":671.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.9765937500001,"end":672.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.9722187500001,"end":673.2422187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.851,"end":20.276,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請部長要請石部長好 最後一人早部長好剛剛大家都在關心這個議題就是我們春節期間那我看了一下資料這個去年的時候平均每天急診就3.7萬人次那最高單日達到4.5萬人"},{"start":21.696,"end":46.81,"text":"不論對急診醫護人員或對正在等床等救命的病人來說都是一個非常緊繃甚至帶有風險的一個狀況尤其是對重症的重症者而言時間就是生命那部長你們所謂的強化區域聯防機制遇到某一家醫院或某一個區域急診跟ICU的量能已經飽和的時候實際負責調度跟轉送決策的是誰是中央還是地方"},{"start":48.275,"end":74.102,"text":"這個當然是這個跟委員報告說我們第一個是監測系統把它建立起來所以包含這個ICU 膠物病房的量的情形都有然後地區上我們有一個這個地區的這個RMEOC這個區域的緊急醫療應變中心會協助衛生局來做病床的所以他是中央來主導還是地方在掌控"},{"start":76.463,"end":91.321,"text":"地方失靈的時候我們中央什麼時候會介入因為我們也建立了這個平台所以我們會他需要跨區的協助的時候我們就會透過這個剛剛提到的REMOC來協助跨區的調度這樣"},{"start":93.085,"end":113.503,"text":"您提的是這樣因為每個縣市衛生局他只能管到他轄內醫療院所那可能每一個縣市的醫療資源因為我看到有這個需要跨區的調度有這個東西但是就是沒有人負責我現在意思是這樣總是要有一個人負責去做這件事情不能說到時候出了狀況又推來推去的"},{"start":116.005,"end":139.57,"text":"會 今年我們特別強化這個區域的合作包含我們的這個健保的分區業務組的組長包含我們這個剛剛提到的這個REMOC都會在這個對啦 我不希望這只是林委員寫得很清楚我希望這個還是要有一個人負責這樣才有責任當然這樣做起來才會比較有效率 好吧那另外我看到你們這個春節的整備專案裡面"},{"start":140.51,"end":163.391,"text":"你們投入了16億用在診察費跟護理費跟藥事服務費加成簡單說這16億其實有兩個目標啦當然是一個降低急診擁塞的情況嘛那第二個是安撫我們在線的這個第一線比較忙碌的這些人員嘛那我們先講第一個目標你們要避免春節急診擁塞核心的做法就是讓"},{"start":164.452,"end":174.53,"text":"醫院門診 急診診所願意開診讓輕症患者有地方去嘛那不要全部都擠到急診去那你有沒有設定一個目標你們這一次要打到幾層啊"},{"start":175.578,"end":204.119,"text":"就是說在醫院的部分過去大概開診率比較低的都是初一、初二、初三一般都初四、初五就開診了所以我們去提高初一、初二、初三這幾天的開診率那目前看起來醫院都會到七成以上都會開了那另外基層的部分過去這幾天大概都2%到4%左右而已那我們今年希望能夠提高到大概10%左右你怎麼做 你這個時日你要怎麼做"},{"start":205.4,"end":230.567,"text":"怎麼做讓他我們現在已經第一個我們有這個剛剛提到的這個獎勵的機制另外有衛生局可以協調地方的醫師公會去這個安排看診然後我們再把這個已經有具體做了嗎已經在進行了我不希望這只是這個花了錢在碰運氣啦不要說我有這個政策但是呢要看這個地方的診所自己願意參加我們提供獎勵當然要進去協調啦我覺得這個才會有效果"},{"start":234.028,"end":258.471,"text":"因為再來就是我們這個疾管署我們2025年春節期間全國加開的傳染病特別門診大概是1230次這個診症那今年延續去年一樣會開今年要開多少次一樣就是急救責任醫院都會開因為你們去年好像只有提高一成嘛對不對"},{"start":260.712,"end":269.325,"text":"對 去年只有CDC的流感門診有獎勵措施今年是全面性的 有健保介入"},{"start":270.768,"end":291.805,"text":"那第二個目標就是我們讓這個春節要上班急診與住院的這個病房醫師醫護人員在原本的加班費之外再有額外的補償加成嗎這樣沒有錯嗎對就是我們提供的提供在這個住院的部分的這個護理費、診察費還有這個藥事服務費都加成"},{"start":292.245,"end":313.273,"text":"我看到你們的規定寫得非常明確,至少有80%要實際發給出行的人員那我看到因為醫學中心違例,一名護理人員在春節期間只要實際上一個班在這個加成制度下,實際可以領多少錢?有算過嗎?"},{"start":314.298,"end":333.6,"text":"沒有 這個是我們以這樣的方式去給醫院費用但是醫院還要去分攤給其他的比如說他可能也有清潔人員要出來或者是S光 醫師檢驗師 醫師放射師所以他們是要去這個錢去給有上班的人大家去分配的"},{"start":333.84,"end":347.441,"text":"那個護理師公會全國聯合會在社群上有幫你們計算這個做法把它計算出來那以醫學中心急性一般病床為例這個護理費第二天以後是888點"},{"start":349.304,"end":360.969,"text":"春節加成100%每床大概多888點40床就是35520點如果一天三班合計16人出勤平均每人可以分配到2220點那其中至少八成約1776點應該要發給實際出勤的第一線人員一天有三班等於護理師 護理人員上一個班大概多600元左右這個數字對嗎"},{"start":379.717,"end":405.094,"text":"我不太敢確定是醫院怎麼樣去處理這些費用因為他們本來就有在加我知道他實際是給院裡面處理但我現在問的不是個案差異而是制度設計下合理推估上一個班第一線護理人員到底能夠拿到多少這如果我們自己都講不出來這個加成對他們來說到底是不是一個有感的一個獎勵金我覺得部長要去思考"},{"start":405.834,"end":431.996,"text":"好不好 因為這個我覺得非常重要啦 因為我們不曉得他們怎麼去處理嘛 我覺得我們部裡面既然有這個心意我還是要讓醫護人員能夠感受到 好不好另外 我們賴總統在選前親自向護理人員做出明確的承諾開出一張很清楚的支票 三班護病筆要入法 兩年內要入法現在今年五月二十賴總統就要兩年了 上任就要兩年了"},{"start":432.316,"end":441.655,"text":"那目前只剩下半年的時間我請教部長我們總統的政見三班戶並比兩年要入法這項承諾會不會跳票"},{"start":442.911,"end":469.908,"text":"我想這個在這個三班護病比上我們做了很多的努力那現在看起來護理人員有在這個提升這個已經在回流了啦然後這個符合達標的比例也在提高那不過呢我們還有很多的做法包含這個自動化的措施簡化那麼對因為很多醫院所以到底這個護病比應該要做什麼樣的他已經達標了沒有錯有很多已經到地區醫院到92點"},{"start":471.169,"end":471.69,"text":"我想這個互併筆入法"},{"start":492.727,"end":502.723,"text":"這個我想這個方向我們會朝這個方向來努力不過重點是那個比例應該是多少要讓它有彈性不要是一個很固定的一個數值反而那個彈性不見了那麼"},{"start":505.447,"end":525.972,"text":"反而讓這個醫院沒有願意去投入讓他去降低這個臨床的負荷那同時也可能影響到病人的權益啦所以這個我們是要兩邊要兼顧的所以我是覺得這個部分還是要加快因為我們醫護人員這個大出走的時候我們再來處理就太慢了"},{"start":527.32,"end":555.054,"text":"降低這個臨床的負荷這個目標是一致的這個不會改變但是我剛剛提到的這個護病比的數字不要用一個單一的數字我希望這樣啦 這個議題這個法案不要變成一個政治議題啦不要說到時候萬一這個出了狀況之後才拿來做趕快來入法然後來救生量我不希望把它變成一個政治工具好不好部長你這個盡快那另外最近看到新聞啦就是"},{"start":556.455,"end":579.802,"text":"這個印度西孟加拉省爆發的高致死率的立百病毒的疫情那我看到我們的報告就是說預告60天所以在3月中會將立百病毒列為第五類法定傳染病那我們在1月27號發布這個醫界通函提醒醫師詢問這個旅遊史等等這些但我看到看的是說"},{"start":581.082,"end":603.818,"text":"預告期60天是你們的行政慣例那可是其實亞洲國家其實就已經戰戰兢兢在在解決這個事情你不覺得60天太久嗎這個我們隨時來調整不過我們在一介通海裡面已經提到就可以開始通報了那這個預告完之後那個就變成強制性啦那現在我們已經是要求提高這個警覺如果"},{"start":604.659,"end":619.438,"text":"排除了現有的病毒性感染特別是在腦炎的部分尤其現在是春節期間很多國人都會從這個在外面的都會回來或者出國旅遊的所以我覺得這是高峰期你這個我覺得這個東西你拖到60天會不會太慢不會"},{"start":621.04,"end":639.515,"text":"應該跟委員說明這個是法律規定我們就這樣做可是實務上我們在進行的防疫措施已經啟動了那另外也藉這個機會也跟國人說明一下目前在印度發生的這一個立百病毒的案例看起來是控制住的"},{"start":640.155,"end":663.046,"text":"你不要講控制 當初花蓮那個焰射壺也是說控制住 後來不是出了狀況對不對 我覺得我們還是不管做什麼啦 就是說還是要未雨綢繆我希望這個東西就是未雨綢繆我們做好準備 但是國人不需驚慌不用太擔心 當然不用驚慌 可是因為要相信你們啦對不對 對但是我希望布裡面不要讓人民失望沒有問題 謝謝"},{"start":669.834,"end":672.656,"text":"好 謝謝邱正軍委員發言 接下來請"}]}},{"id":"167311","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167311","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a883e466084783330815ca6c4b86dd6b28f9da39f225449bb57b63d252e14d10cbe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"10:00:05 - 10:11:30","影片長度":"00:11:25","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「面對全球經貿變局挑戰，如何協輔僑臺商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:00:05+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:11:30+08:00","duration":685,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.28409375000000003,"end":1.3472187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.3472187500000001,"end":1.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.8703437500000002,"end":1.9040937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.9040937500000001,"end":2.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.03909375,"end":5.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.9372187499999995,"end":7.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.20659375,"end":11.168468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.286593750000002,"end":16.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.074718750000002,"end":18.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.96471875,"end":19.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.133468750000002,"end":25.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.52909375,"end":31.789718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.16096875,"end":44.682218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.86471875,"end":37.932218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.932218750000004,"end":37.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.96596875,"end":38.252843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.05346875,"end":45.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.09971875,"end":49.626593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.643468750000004,"end":49.710968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.727843750000005,"end":49.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.91346875,"end":53.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.79471875,"end":53.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.91284375,"end":53.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.31784375,"end":57.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.962843750000005,"end":61.135343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.67534375,"end":70.12971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.83846875,"end":72.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.42471875000001,"end":73.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.46659375,"end":80.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.86659375,"end":81.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.81159375,"end":85.75596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.75596875000001,"end":87.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.77284375,"end":85.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.85721875,"end":86.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.85284375,"end":87.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.21971875,"end":91.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.86471875000001,"end":97.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.37471875,"end":96.87659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.77096875000001,"end":98.80034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.29409375,"end":109.56659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.73659375000001,"end":102.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.92096875,"end":110.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.91659375,"end":111.27096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.45659375000001,"end":112.13159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.51971875000001,"end":115.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.33784375,"end":136.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.12784375,"end":136.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.53284375,"end":141.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.67971875,"end":142.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.82721875000001,"end":151.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.36159375,"end":155.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.68596875,"end":165.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.19909375,"end":183.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.01909375000002,"end":194.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.65034375000002,"end":200.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.69159375,"end":201.29909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.72534375,"end":205.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.64909375000002,"end":204.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.75409375,"end":206.34471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.46284375000002,"end":208.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.69034375,"end":211.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.79534375,"end":214.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.32221875000002,"end":222.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.51096875000002,"end":226.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.39221875,"end":236.01096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.66909375,"end":254.89409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.13034375,"end":256.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.18909375000004,"end":266.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.59721875,"end":271.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.05596875000003,"end":277.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.94534375,"end":278.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.68784375,"end":283.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.54784375,"end":283.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.66596875,"end":293.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.50534375,"end":285.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.31846875,"end":294.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.11159375,"end":299.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.12846875,"end":294.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.10221875,"end":307.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.89846875,"end":308.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.89409375,"end":334.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.81409375000004,"end":344.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.68596875000003,"end":346.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.14971875000003,"end":350.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.91284375000004,"end":352.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.19534375,"end":364.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.25659375000004,"end":370.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.07846875,"end":392.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.42534375,"end":392.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.49284375,"end":392.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.52659375,"end":392.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.62784375,"end":394.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.29846875000004,"end":394.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.31534375,"end":395.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.42909375000005,"end":407.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.74784375,"end":409.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.40159375,"end":411.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.54471875,"end":412.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.01284375,"end":424.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.94346875,"end":432.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.02659375,"end":435.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.96284375000005,"end":438.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.96221875000003,"end":441.76784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.52721875000003,"end":445.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.08346875,"end":447.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.29846875000004,"end":449.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.20534375000005,"end":451.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.23034375000003,"end":454.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.96409375,"end":468.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.53159375,"end":470.80971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.92346875000004,"end":474.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.39971875000003,"end":480.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.23846875000004,"end":490.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":491.44784375,"end":503.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.59784375000004,"end":504.59346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.91409375,"end":526.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.6953437500001,"end":538.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.8415937500001,"end":539.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.0903437500001,"end":543.1359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.0390937500001,"end":553.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.76034375,"end":544.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.5065937500001,"end":547.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":553.51409375,"end":553.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.34096875,"end":558.6103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.3659687500001,"end":560.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.4284687500001,"end":569.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.71471875,"end":568.7353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.95034375,"end":571.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.4353437500001,"end":572.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.4522187499999,"end":571.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.9922187500001,"end":575.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.3628437500001,"end":576.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.3797187499999,"end":582.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.80971875,"end":578.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.7078437499999,"end":587.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":588.2934687500001,"end":595.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.2922187500001,"end":598.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.0134687500001,"end":599.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.75596875,"end":599.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.2959687499999,"end":599.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.9540937500001,"end":616.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.06534375,"end":617.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.74034375,"end":620.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":620.4909687500001,"end":637.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.52409375,"end":624.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.8447187500001,"end":624.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.96909375,"end":647.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":647.45721875,"end":648.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.9422187499999,"end":661.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":661.95284375,"end":662.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.5434687500001,"end":662.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.03284375,"end":675.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":676.4990937500002,"end":681.1228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.73471875,"end":684.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":684.31221875,"end":685.6115937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.289,"end":10.977,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩我們信保基金的董事長請信保基金董事長主席我也好"},{"start":11.568,"end":29.755,"text":"待會有其他需要補充的話不管是副委員長或其他業管單位就歡迎自己上來啦第一個請教一個問題我們信保根據我調查我們在2025年大概信保出去我們擔保的信保額度是1億5147萬美金"},{"start":32.876,"end":60.91,"text":"2024年是1億4986萬美金當然壽星的額度比這還高大概是一半就是說有點像我買房子我要去買我要買一個2億5千151萬的房子然後呢這個你們來幫我擔保大概一半的錢當我這個擔保的保證人大概是這個概念那我要請教你我們一般要比較難理解的是如果我們信保基金海外信保"},{"start":61.79,"end":64.473,"text":"去承擔1億5147萬美金或1億4986萬美金我用1億來講好了那你們要準備多少錢"},{"start":75.202,"end":81.926,"text":"因為目前我們所謂的貸償率就是等於是假如是100塊我們貸償率是1.4塊就是1.4%那我這樣講不知道對不對就是說我今天如果信保一億"},{"start":91.912,"end":109.343,"text":"我大概要準備的是1億的1.4%這個就是我的成本當然這個成本將來還可以去追啦我們把它當作呆帳不一定會追回來那前面有人說你要幫人家擔保1億4那1億4跳掉了你要全部負擔沒錯 所以有一個真性嘛"},{"start":110.583,"end":135.257,"text":"連針嘛 銀行又銀行股啊 又不是隨便放款他一定會去看你的信用 你的所得你的營業額 甚至你有沒有不動產 資產 負債都會看完 經過徵信完我決定 我銀行要借你一億可是我覺得對你信用上我有所疑慮 要你找個保證人這個保證人呢 在海外就是海外信保基金 你們來當保證人"},{"start":136.658,"end":151.011,"text":"在家庭通常呢配偶買房子連帶保證人就找另外一個配偶嘛綁在一起啊所以政府擔任所謂信保的角色就是當我們中小企業如果在海外他要去拚經濟"},{"start":152.412,"end":176.708,"text":"可是他拿不到銀行啊 海外美國的銀行不借他錢啊歐洲銀行不借他錢啊或者因為你誰擔保的身份差別 利率會有所差別美國的話 如果你是初次來這邊做生意 大概是6%那一般信用比較好 有往來的大概是2%以下啦這個是海外資金運作的所以我再跟你確認這件事情就是我們長年以來 這個又不是我們現在執政才有"},{"start":177.408,"end":194.043,"text":"長年以來喬委會的海外信保基金為了幫助我們喬台商我們在信保的額度每一億你們要準備的成本大概是1.4%左右我這樣全是沒有錯嘛這個就是成本嘛"},{"start":195.284,"end":221.904,"text":"所以100塊要準備1.4塊100億要準備1.4億140萬美金140萬美金要準備這個額度所以從這來看我們最近跟美國談到的所謂的最惠國待遇或者是關稅談判我覺得它是一個專業問題政治的口水沒辦法去掩蓋真實如果這個談判的條件不好企業界會知道"},{"start":223.206,"end":233.942,"text":"產業界會知道如果這個談判的條件不錯產業界也會知道也許對政治人物的評價可以透過抹黑啊 造謠啊可以有一時的影響但是這是紮紮實實的經濟議題"},{"start":236.738,"end":255.364,"text":"所以2500億所謂的對美投資那個是指私人部分包含台積電的1600億美金還有我們要購買我們的能源等等那個大概就消化掉了很多人把後面那2500億美金的信用單保直接把它加上去你們會這樣加嗎"},{"start":258.399,"end":278.064,"text":"應該不一定啦 因為事實上本身這個企業他的投資的錢到底是自己的錢或者是跟銀行借來的錢其實是都有可能的 用家法就不對嘛就好像你兒子去買一間房子一千萬叫你這個老爸來擔保一千萬難道你還要在另外拿一千萬放在那裡 不是你是擔保他那一千萬不還的時候你的貸產嘛 是"},{"start":278.752,"end":308.044,"text":"那代償率1.4%我就要準備1000萬我就準備個這個14萬嘛就代償率的概念是這樣子所以2500億美金的擔保或信保其實我準備就是2500億乘上1.4%大概35億美金35億啦何況像台積電那種公司哪需要你信保啊所以還會更小大概會低於25億美金因為許多會到美國投資的大型公司他本身的Credibility在"},{"start":309.603,"end":333.52,"text":"國際任何銀行都搶到借他錢根本不用你去信保他所以他真正幫助到的是比較少涉足海外投資的或者是首次去海外投資的或者是屬於中小型規模欠缺他的這個Credibility這樣的企業我們在幫助的是 輔助的是這樣的弱勢或中小或者他有能力只是缺乏過去的時機"},{"start":334.941,"end":350.459,"text":"就像我們的性保基金一樣 對不對所以第一個命題我剛才請教的就是透過我們政府長年就存在的對海外叫海外性保在國內的就是中小性保這個不是現在才有欸你們海外性保操作幾年了"},{"start":351.634,"end":370.346,"text":"37年多了37年多啊我們在場大概沒有幾個比37年小啦我們都比他大但37年也算蠻長的時間所以37年來歷經多任的政府信保是一個我們我們的企業家我們的產業界去海外打拼的時候他的一個工具"},{"start":371.447,"end":394.868,"text":"從來沒有人說我信保 我們僑委會信保我們的信保金 信保1億5千147萬美金哇 那你僑委會的預算 大概一半就拿去花掉了沒有人這樣算的所以我們該透過這樣子 讓他理解信保的概念那個貸償率1.4%才是一個潛在的成本而且那還可以再追償的你只是擔任擔保 所以"},{"start":396.41,"end":410.646,"text":"2500億準備起來是35億美金如果扣掉大型企業那種自己就可以擔保自己的大概還要比35億美金更小現在任何人再把2500億信保那就不是不懂囉如果看到我們這段不是不懂囉"},{"start":411.607,"end":426.774,"text":"那就裝不懂直接要亂帶風去破壞台灣好朋友談到這麼優惠那台灣的傳統產業不管在台中在彰化在任何地方因為這樣子 韓國已經吃雞了韓國變25%15%不疊加跟25%要疊加差多少如果你原始稅率是21或27要疊加的意思就是變50多%欸跟15%封頂不疊加"},{"start":439.977,"end":445.007,"text":"台灣的中小企業的命脈在這裡那我現在要請教你的第二個問題我們也請副委員長上來"},{"start":447.13,"end":470.356,"text":"那個現在有產生一個情形台灣確實在對等關稅談判達到了15%另外還有2.5倍的投資可以豁免抵稅歸零還有232條款對九大產業的列入不管是汽車零組件我們的水五金工具機腳踏車零組件等等等等"},{"start":471.974,"end":485.59,"text":"那我現在要請教僑委會跟信保基金的是我們有一些僑台商他的工廠是在台美以外的第三國而像東南亞有的是19%有的21%有的還要疊加有的還有懲罰稀產地幫中國稀產地的懲罰性關稅20%"},{"start":491.516,"end":510.675,"text":"那我們的橋台商如果因為在越南啊在哪裡遇到這樣困難他轉去美國投資我請教橋友會這個投資額度有沒有列入台灣對美投資額度他從第三地比如說我們某某橋台商現在他的工廠設在非洲設在東南亞"},{"start":511.415,"end":525.995,"text":"而他現在決定因應這個關稅我在這邊生產把我的利潤吃掉了我現在某某橋台商呢把我們的資金要拿到美國加州投資德州投資這個有沒有列入我們中華民國對美投資的額度內"},{"start":528.048,"end":539.277,"text":"謝謝委員的關心喔 僑委會的工作主要是做僑台商的平台那您剛剛的問題呢 可能專業的經濟部或者是這個我們的談判小組來回答比較適合 對 那我們一定是全力配合不是配合 你們要了解這一點 僑台商如果你們服務夠好 僑台商第一個會找到你們欸 請教一下 我現在在印尼這個工場齁我準備挪一億美金去投資美國"},{"start":554.429,"end":558.993,"text":"阿這個有沒有算我們國家對美投資因為這個題目會決定下一題喔但是僑委會的立場我們不是這個主事的機關我們還是要以這個對其他的像經濟部或者是談判小組我要你們去了解嘛"},{"start":569.983,"end":595.434,"text":"Q&A要答得出來啊你Q&A都答不出來你怎麼服務橋台商答完之後說請找經貿辦請找經濟部國貿局他有他業管單位但橋台商我從第三國移到美國去投資的時候有沒有列入我們國家對美投資這個很重要這牽涉到我們一開始那2500億台積電已經投資1600億了第二個他如果從第三國到美國投資信保金金"},{"start":596.565,"end":615.833,"text":"可不可以列入我們服務的對象是可以嘛所以這兩題是相關的如果我們今天有一個在印尼的橋台商他從印尼到美國去投資我們國家納稅人的信保基金縱使就1.7%的成本潛在成本我去擔保他去美國他可以取得比較低的競爭優勢"},{"start":617.153,"end":636.683,"text":"那他到底有沒有列入我們對美投資問清楚啊如果沒有你可以提醒我們談判辦說這個要列進去啊這一旦列進去我們的信保海外信保基金等於變成整體國家的作戰而且我們國家的那2500億美金的信保是不是要把你們這個納入裡面"},{"start":639.025,"end":647.925,"text":"include列在額度裡面而不是列在外面因為光列在額度我看你們2025年就吃下了一億五千萬美金啊不錯啊"},{"start":649.071,"end":675.62,"text":"這不錯啊 這個減輕我們的負擔啊縱使就1.7% 1.4%也是一個負擔啊那個信保董事長知道我的意思嗎就是說這一個額度有沒有列入我們對美投資額度有不錯啊第二個他現在已經算是我們信保服務的客戶那我信保這一個額度有沒有列入那第二段2500億的美金的信保的額度裡面如果有更好我現在在做就可以扣掉"},{"start":676.547,"end":684.363,"text":"你這樣懂我意思嗎那你們現在如果沒有答案請盡速回答本委員會跟本席這樣好不好好 謝謝委員的戰略思維我們就配合趕快來去這個好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167323","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167323","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88013f5eb5c4000f366bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b3eb26cf665c94cb75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"09:49:51 - 10:00:29","影片長度":"00:10:38","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:49:51+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:00:29+08:00","duration":638,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":3.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.03471875,"end":3.8109687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.9290937500000003,"end":7.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.337843750000001,"end":9.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.555968750000002,"end":18.559718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.84659375,"end":22.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.49159375,"end":27.840968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.43159375,"end":29.039093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.59596875,"end":30.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.70971875,"end":31.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.346593750000004,"end":35.721593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.07596875,"end":37.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.52284375,"end":39.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.619718750000004,"end":40.244093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.564718750000004,"end":42.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.197218750000005,"end":44.783468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.22221875,"end":46.977218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.38221875,"end":48.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.51284375,"end":51.634718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.19159375,"end":52.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.625968750000006,"end":54.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.29659375000001,"end":57.102218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.77721875,"end":60.578468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.320968750000006,"end":62.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.869093750000005,"end":64.62846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.81409375,"end":65.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.07971875,"end":66.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.22721875,"end":68.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.13409375,"end":70.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.04096875,"end":71.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.93534375,"end":73.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.82534375,"end":75.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.56346875,"end":77.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.80784375,"end":78.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.19159375000001,"end":81.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.49909375,"end":84.27096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.67596875000001,"end":89.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.56971875,"end":90.39659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.93659375,"end":95.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.37034375,"end":97.51784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.80471875,"end":98.56409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.93534375,"end":99.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.11659375,"end":102.00659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.24284375,"end":102.56346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.18784375000001,"end":104.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.75721875,"end":105.38159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.19159375000001,"end":107.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.09846875000001,"end":108.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.26284375,"end":110.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.60846875,"end":114.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.44346875000001,"end":116.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.01284375,"end":116.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.32909375000001,"end":164.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.38534375,"end":162.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.90409375000002,"end":167.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.71784375000001,"end":174.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.60284375,"end":175.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.08784375000002,"end":180.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.69471875000002,"end":189.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.77346875,"end":196.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.31659375,"end":198.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.64971875,"end":199.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.86471875,"end":205.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.68659375000001,"end":206.34471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.73284375,"end":207.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.15034375000002,"end":208.58909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.21346875,"end":209.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.63096875000002,"end":213.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.64721875,"end":214.83284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.20409375000003,"end":221.61659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.12784375,"end":218.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.73096875000002,"end":219.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.31284375,"end":221.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.61659375000002,"end":221.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.63346875000002,"end":222.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.86971875,"end":223.64159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.64159375000003,"end":223.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.06346875000003,"end":233.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.58971875,"end":231.79221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.80471875,"end":233.36159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.96909375,"end":240.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.93846875000003,"end":242.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.35596875000002,"end":255.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.12596875,"end":264.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.30284375,"end":259.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.65284375000005,"end":259.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.74471875,"end":265.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.06534375,"end":266.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.09909375,"end":266.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.92596875000004,"end":266.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.39846875,"end":269.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.30534375,"end":272.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.98409375,"end":279.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.57346875,"end":281.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.43409375000005,"end":285.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.75846875,"end":286.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.95221875000004,"end":290.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.65221875000003,"end":291.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.86721875,"end":293.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.53784375000004,"end":295.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.25909375000003,"end":301.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.87409375000004,"end":302.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.39721875000004,"end":314.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.27721875000003,"end":328.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.22596875,"end":318.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.41846875000005,"end":331.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.14784375000005,"end":334.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.57346875,"end":338.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.94846875,"end":340.01159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.43346875000003,"end":342.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.18409375000005,"end":344.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.24284375,"end":352.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.54534375000003,"end":353.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.59159375,"end":357.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.62909375000004,"end":358.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.16471875,"end":360.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.10534375000003,"end":362.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.89409375,"end":366.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.31534375,"end":368.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.56409375000004,"end":380.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.62971875000005,"end":383.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.17346875000004,"end":387.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.48096875000005,"end":390.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.86846875000003,"end":406.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.24784375,"end":394.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.76471875000004,"end":411.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.40971875,"end":417.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.07971875000004,"end":417.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.40034375000005,"end":417.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.41721875,"end":427.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.83471875000004,"end":420.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.87971875000005,"end":431.67659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.11534375,"end":433.75221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.32596875,"end":437.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.24534375,"end":439.43909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.67534375,"end":442.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.02909375,"end":448.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.12534375,"end":450.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.71159375,"end":450.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.31909375000004,"end":451.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.48346875000004,"end":455.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.45346875,"end":457.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.00159375000004,"end":459.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.88721875000005,"end":461.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.25409375000004,"end":463.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.80659375000005,"end":465.81471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.38846875,"end":468.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.70034375000006,"end":469.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.82659375000003,"end":471.26534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.05846875000003,"end":472.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.56034375,"end":474.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.97784375000003,"end":480.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.52971875000003,"end":482.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.38596875,"end":483.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.41096875000005,"end":489.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.16534375000003,"end":491.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.03846875000005,"end":497.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.62409375000004,"end":511.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.60909375,"end":513.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.38534375,"end":515.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.79846875,"end":519.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.1697187500001,"end":516.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.74284375,"end":521.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.31221875,"end":523.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.25284375,"end":525.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.19346875,"end":526.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.3915937500001,"end":528.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.9778437500001,"end":529.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.12534375,"end":531.7622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.0828437499999,"end":532.8928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.21346875,"end":534.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.81659375,"end":537.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.3984687500001,"end":546.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.61221875,"end":548.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.60346875,"end":548.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.3584687499999,"end":562.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.3015937499999,"end":563.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.15784375,"end":568.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.7522187500001,"end":569.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.8828437500001,"end":570.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.8615937500001,"end":571.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.1609687499999,"end":572.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.07221875,"end":574.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.02971875,"end":575.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.5147187499999,"end":595.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.95471875,"end":611.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.4797187500001,"end":613.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.23034375,"end":625.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.90784375,"end":630.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.24034375,"end":635.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.30721875,"end":635.5772187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.5772187499999,"end":637.48409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.99,"end":7.595,"text":"來 請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長那個鐵道局我們楊局長鐵道局楊正軍局長委員好好 部長 局長大家早啊大家都知道了你們辛苦一下因為我們今天啊確實對於軌道的政策啊也提出一個專案報告"},{"start":28.499,"end":56.694,"text":"可是當然因為我也列之一二確實過去鐵道的預算是多的可是這幾年下來是下降的那當然在這裡報告我也不是針對這些指定專案報告的這整個鐵路但是比較敏感從這半個月以來"},{"start":58.09,"end":79.52,"text":"為了高鐵宜蘭站也就是我們過去張景生前政委他提出非常之多的這些批判當然他個人有個人的看法他也算一個專家我們也要尊重他但是我個人覺得"},{"start":82.557,"end":110.623,"text":"交通建設不能依照經濟效益而來斷定做跟不做但是沒有辦法現在風風雨雨不管是媒體不管是當地不管是團體都反對這件事情第一我要請教部長兩個問題第一個你對這件事情"},{"start":111.713,"end":139.438,"text":"既然強烈這麼反對部長你有什麼看法報告委員強烈的反對我覺得這都是形容詞那多強烈我覺得要有科學的評估我們其實有做過民調剛剛洪孟愷委員在問的時候我有回答過我們在宜蘭縣議會幾乎看到大部分絕大多數的議員們都是支持的宜蘭的立法委員也是支持的"},{"start":139.958,"end":158.503,"text":"宜蘭的縣政府也有表達過他們也是支持的這是第一點第二點我剛剛講說反對的感覺要有科學的數據所以我們有做過民調我們目前宜蘭的鄉親我們做民調支持宜蘭高鐵延伸到宜蘭的有79.5%是支持的那反對的數據可能蠻低的反對當然啦正反雙方都有"},{"start":167.785,"end":196.441,"text":"可是據我了解宜蘭地區確實包括老百姓包括政府機關甚至於都把本來97公頃都把它擴大甚至於整個篆圍鄉他們都蠻希望化為交通用地這是事實因為我考察過地方民群我了解所以基本上現在已經箭在弦上"},{"start":199.163,"end":212.975,"text":"請問現在張景深政委他說是不是請你們做公投你的看法部長做公投報告委員公投這件事不太可能由交通部來發動"},{"start":215.287,"end":241.548,"text":"他們要做這些公投你同不同意我們已經有做過民調了對我們做過的是民調嘛他現在要發起公投要不要見公投是人民的權利我們都尊重你尊重我們都尊重但是你不覺得這個公投做下去對我們整個交通建設的會耽擱嗎你不不擔心嗎"},{"start":242.669,"end":264.137,"text":"我們還是希望啦因為很多的民眾是期待交通建設要發展那我們還是期待說交通建設可以趕快來進行是所有民眾所期待的所以你對公投同不同意嗎或者你認為民調就可以顯現出來公投我沒有辦法同意或不同意我們會尊重會尊重 好"},{"start":266.175,"end":278.747,"text":"那個 楊局長可以請回來我們陳署長來 觀光署陳署長來 我也要拜託我們那個觀光署啊幕僚單位也提供資料給署長"},{"start":282.498,"end":301.004,"text":"來 我們今天最主要是觀光部長我一向不太贊同就是為了捍衛你們的做法而在那邊跟立委在那邊有所爭議這一點我是滿反對的"},{"start":302.489,"end":327.787,"text":"立法委員是有意見下情上達然後轉印給決策單位來做觀光政策如何去補足這個不足的地方所以部長我還是建議這裡面當然數據你難怪我們立法院的同仁在質疑這些觀光我舉個例子"},{"start":328.507,"end":334.572,"text":"你們現在美麗的數據完全不能反映到"},{"start":335.589,"end":339.671,"text":"這個產業是七產的產喔產業的這種感覺我幾例專門辦國禮也得到我們觀光署所表揚的這些禮行業他都關門了耶 部長他都關門了報章雜誌在報導 禮行社"},{"start":364.253,"end":390.104,"text":"辦國禮的已經有46家關門了那請問一下既然數據這麼好為什麼他要關門就是因為我們統計的數據雖然過去是這樣統計但是事實上是有所出入的有所出入所以我還是要建議部長啊因為我也知道你不能管得這麼細"},{"start":392.126,"end":406.068,"text":"觀光署當然就要為以籌謀如何檢討改進去符合人民所需要業者所需要這些才有意義啦那剛才重點就是這樣嘛"},{"start":407.85,"end":427.381,"text":"我說實在你不能灌水的政策達到美麗的數據這一點我是很懷疑報告委員數據一定不會灌水一定灌水啦報告委員數據一定不會灌水在國會殿堂我不要跟你去狡辯私底下我才告訴你們如何去灌水"},{"start":428.041,"end":449.702,"text":"我相信這個數據不是部長不是署長但是底下的人說實在的不能這樣灌水有沒有灌水不要爭議但事實上我剛才已經講了業者可以馬上反映我幾例啊像我屏東我們恆春"},{"start":451.407,"end":459.265,"text":"他們一年過去是四百萬五百萬現在一年不到兩百萬今年只有兩百零幾萬"},{"start":460.95,"end":489.33,"text":"明年他們在擔心他們現在所有的賣場根本幾乎八成都關門大吉不定我相信你是管政策你不會管這麼細節的東西但是署長你要監督這些我還是要建議每一個縣市都有他的觀光產值跟觀光特色"},{"start":490.251,"end":511.744,"text":"你們要針對一個縣市一個縣市把它的特色 像我們新北 九份它有貴的很好吃你們要不要去辦這些讓人家有一個景點式特色去做促銷這些你要去做啊可是到現在為止"},{"start":512.879,"end":524.695,"text":"為止我只有看到美麗的數據從來沒有看到我們因應對策我要拜託你針對光光的問題不是數據啦而是實際"},{"start":529.045,"end":548.141,"text":"不是數據你們的數據都很漂亮啊你們過去就是因為這是錯誤的數據才會導致現在觀光產業慘到不能慘的一個地步所以這個部分真的啊 部長我用心良苦啊"},{"start":550.421,"end":575.502,"text":"特別建議你在政策方面好好檢討一下要針對產業發展不要只有美麗的數據而是美麗的業績這是最重要的一點所以啊我也要拜託我們一向我對於部長對於有新的做法我真的"},{"start":576.587,"end":594.373,"text":"敬佩之宜我還要你用政策的力量支持觀光署把它真正不要美麗的數據啦要美麗的業績這才是真正替老百姓把觀光創業去把它做好所以部長這一點"},{"start":596.013,"end":623.552,"text":"我提出這些讓你做參考我也希望你能夠在政策方面好好檢討一下不要說沒有灌水我只指責這些沒有意義可是我敢保證所有數據不是署長不是你但是底下給你的數據不完全正確在我們民意代表看到業者的慘淡跟他們的心聲不得不在國會讓我們"},{"start":625.993,"end":636.011,"text":"交通部的陳部長能夠了解所以這一點我要建議部長針對這個事情下去做檢討跟改進好不好好謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167322","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167322","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a884c6ec9d1b425c2ad6bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b47990b0cb07845b95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:34:37 - 09:49:32","影片長度":"00:14:55","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:34:37+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T09:49:32+08:00","duration":895,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":3.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4.03034375,"end":5.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.464718750000001,"end":7.388468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.31159375,"end":15.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.977843750000002,"end":27.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.79034375,"end":30.405968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31.08096875,"end":61.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.204718750000005,"end":49.424093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.742843750000006,"end":80.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.71034375,"end":83.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.93346875,"end":85.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.11034375,"end":89.11409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":87.12284375,"end":104.09909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.15909375000001,"end":100.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.67284375000001,"end":111.62534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":111.99659375,"end":113.34659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.63346875,"end":116.29971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.92409375000001,"end":126.57659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.03221875000001,"end":127.89284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.01096875000002,"end":128.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.07846875,"end":140.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.97534375,"end":141.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.79784375,"end":142.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":141.81471875,"end":152.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.72159375,"end":146.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.96909375,"end":171.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":155.29784375,"end":155.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":171.17721875,"end":174.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.92346875,"end":183.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.99096875,"end":176.07096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.07096875000002,"end":176.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.96846875,"end":192.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":192.30471875,"end":192.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.33846875,"end":192.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":192.40596875,"end":231.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.48596875,"end":194.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.88534375,"end":204.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.04534375,"end":238.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.22159375,"end":238.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.96409375000002,"end":256.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.10909375,"end":261.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.40346875,"end":264.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.46659375,"end":276.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":274.97534375000004,"end":282.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":282.75471875,"end":283.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.78846875,"end":283.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":284.02034375,"end":292.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.05784375,"end":287.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.98096875000005,"end":294.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.39846875,"end":301.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":302.12721875,"end":323.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":324.08159375,"end":332.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":333.29534375000003,"end":339.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.96096875,"end":341.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.49659375000005,"end":345.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.27659375,"end":346.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.32284375,"end":348.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.83721875000003,"end":350.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.88784375,"end":349.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.44034375,"end":355.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":355.33409375,"end":363.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.63659375000003,"end":366.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":364.63221875000005,"end":364.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":366.57284375,"end":367.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.26034375,"end":371.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.19659375000003,"end":373.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":373.44096875,"end":375.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.12409375000004,"end":376.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.14096875,"end":376.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.44471875000005,"end":377.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":377.77784375000005,"end":383.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":383.24534375,"end":388.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":388.98284375000003,"end":391.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":391.66596875000005,"end":396.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":397.53846875000005,"end":398.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.32721875000004,"end":410.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.54596875000004,"end":405.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.69721875000005,"end":432.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.00971875000005,"end":433.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.09409375,"end":439.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.72596875000005,"end":458.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":453.58034375000005,"end":505.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.61284375,"end":488.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.96721875000003,"end":489.86159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.86159375000005,"end":489.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.91221875,"end":489.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":506.34846875000005,"end":510.49971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":511.54596875000004,"end":511.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":513.13221875,"end":520.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":521.83971875,"end":522.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.27409375,"end":525.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":526.21034375,"end":534.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":535.05284375,"end":542.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":543.2709687500001,"end":549.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":550.13909375,"end":554.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":554.32409375,"end":560.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":560.51721875,"end":563.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":565.84971875,"end":566.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":569.93346875,"end":571.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":570.4397187500001,"end":571.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":571.36784375,"end":572.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":572.04284375,"end":576.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":575.41784375,"end":576.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":576.6497187500001,"end":576.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":577.5947187500001,"end":581.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":579.9740937500001,"end":582.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":583.7709687500001,"end":585.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":584.41221875,"end":585.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":585.71159375,"end":585.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":585.81284375,"end":585.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":585.96471875,"end":586.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":586.0322187500001,"end":586.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":586.7409687500001,"end":588.7153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":589.23846875,"end":590.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":592.9172187500001,"end":595.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":596.0390937500001,"end":596.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":596.07284375,"end":605.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":605.55659375,"end":617.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":617.8247187500001,"end":618.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":620.4740937500001,"end":627.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":621.2165937500001,"end":622.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":626.32971875,"end":627.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":629.43471875,"end":629.9072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":629.9072187500001,"end":645.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":645.75284375,"end":646.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":647.40659375,"end":653.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":654.0047187499999,"end":656.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":658.4597187500001,"end":663.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.21471875,"end":660.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":660.24846875,"end":662.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":663.8259687500001,"end":672.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":668.68596875,"end":680.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":672.88784375,"end":674.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":677.96721875,"end":678.1865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.1865937500002,"end":678.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":678.23721875,"end":678.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.2878437500001,"end":678.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":678.37221875,"end":678.4397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":679.75596875,"end":679.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.77284375,"end":680.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":680.19471875,"end":680.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.21159375,"end":680.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.6672187500001,"end":680.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":680.6840937500001,"end":701.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.93721875,"end":680.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.9709687500001,"end":682.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.02846875,"end":691.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":691.19721875,"end":691.2647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.2647187500002,"end":691.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":700.0903437500001,"end":700.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":700.2084687500001,"end":700.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":700.2422187500001,"end":700.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":701.74409375,"end":701.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":701.7947187500001,"end":703.7353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":702.6384687500001,"end":703.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":704.54534375,"end":707.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.02596875,"end":707.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":707.19471875,"end":708.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.93721875,"end":714.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.9665937500001,"end":709.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":709.9284687500001,"end":709.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.83096875,"end":713.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.50596875,"end":715.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":715.04159375,"end":715.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":716.2565937500001,"end":727.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.32659375,"end":728.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":728.03534375,"end":732.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":728.87909375,"end":728.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":729.11534375,"end":729.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":729.3178437500001,"end":729.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.79409375,"end":732.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.8447187500001,"end":732.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.96284375,"end":735.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":732.9797187500001,"end":752.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":735.9665937500001,"end":737.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":737.01284375,"end":737.0803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.04971875,"end":744.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.2353437500001,"end":744.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.3872187500001,"end":744.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":753.46596875,"end":754.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":755.27159375,"end":761.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.06846875,"end":764.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":764.9578437499999,"end":769.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":765.0590937500001,"end":765.3459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":766.8815937500001,"end":776.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":777.10784375,"end":785.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":789.32534375,"end":791.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":791.31659375,"end":795.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":791.6540937500001,"end":792.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":794.1515937500001,"end":795.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":796.24409375,"end":797.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":798.20159375,"end":798.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":799.8047187500001,"end":803.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":803.8715937500001,"end":806.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":806.60534375,"end":822.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":816.9665937500001,"end":817.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":819.02534375,"end":819.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":819.68346875,"end":826.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":823.88534375,"end":825.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":826.06221875,"end":826.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.0790937500001,"end":830.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":826.3659687500001,"end":828.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":830.78721875,"end":835.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":830.8547187500001,"end":830.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":833.0990937500001,"end":835.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":835.6640937500001,"end":835.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":835.90034375,"end":845.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":835.98471875,"end":836.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":841.23284375,"end":841.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":844.43909375,"end":845.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":845.45159375,"end":845.5359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":846.6497187500001,"end":854.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.68346875,"end":848.3372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":848.3372187500001,"end":848.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":848.69159375,"end":848.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":849.4172187500001,"end":849.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":855.81284375,"end":856.9265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":857.97284375,"end":864.5034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":858.0065937500001,"end":860.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":864.87471875,"end":875.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":876.1809687500001,"end":878.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":879.9778437500001,"end":887.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":880.01159375,"end":880.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":881.2097187500001,"end":884.3484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":884.82096875,"end":887.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":887.58846875,"end":890.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":890.59221875,"end":895.9753437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.149,"end":2.315,"text":"好 主席謝謝麻煩請陳部長還有我們觀光署陳署長請陳部長及陳署長"},{"start":13.699,"end":29.972,"text":"部長好部長本席開宗明義先強調我認為說全台灣大家交通建設都應該要建立生活圈讓交通更方便這是我們共同目標交通沒有最好只有更好但是現在本席看到跟"},{"start":31.158,"end":59.481,"text":"交通部長跟前任部長我們賀承鄧部長也報導直接寫說前交長槓現任那期待公開的討論我不知道說這個陳部長你有沒有感覺到跟前任的部長有這個對槓隔空對槓的感覺完全沒這個感覺完全沒有但是感覺你們沒有在聚焦因為賀承鄧前部長他講的是所謂宜蘭高鐵的一個部分那也講到是說其實現在的鐵道局並沒有把"},{"start":60.001,"end":85.312,"text":"所謂的宜蘭直鐵台鐵的一個規劃納入這個評估考量所以可行性評估會變成是一個很龐大的一個建設但是可能偉大甩不掉而且並沒有辦法解決宜蘭人通勤或者是說往返台北的需求那不要說前部長跟現任部長互槓啊張景生前政委他在他的臉書你有沒有看"},{"start":86.378,"end":108.176,"text":"我没有仔细看到你没有看到脸书但是行政院院长说他每一篇的脸书都有看所以很显然我们部长比院长还要更公务繁忙不过这也不是重点重点在于是说行政院院长就讲是说我没有加他好友所以你没有加好友那没有问题但是行政院院长讲是说他都把张景深政委的意见"},{"start":109.886,"end":121.716,"text":"轉達給我們交通部部長陳士凱那來 請教一下現在既然院長也已經交辦給你了那賀成旦直接在 張景生直接在他臉書上講說宜蘭高鐵會是史詩級災難4000億解決不了交通問題"},{"start":127.079,"end":143.166,"text":"部長怎麼回應報告委員其實高鐵跟紙鐵的這個議題紙鐵的議題已經討論差不多有一二十年的時間並不是說這個議題沒有拿出來討論我想賀成部長應該也相當的清楚因為我現在在問張景生張景生說史詩級災難並且張景生講說民進黨的高官們都紛紛私下跟他講說"},{"start":150.249,"end":172.731,"text":"張景深政委你說的對啊宜蘭高鐵不可行我不曉得是哪些高官們跟他說啦但是當時在決定從直鐵轉換為高鐵的過程當中張景深前政委當時長期在行政院擔任政務委員他應該也很清楚整個過程那為什麼他會說他不了解這個我就不曉得不是 他沒有說他不了解他直接講說這是史詩級災難"},{"start":175,"end":191.08,"text":"所以現在是怎樣在民進黨政府裡面當官的人都不能講真話那辭官之後退休了無事一聲清就可以真話就滿天飛包委員我覺得鐵路的建設包括您很關心的您選區裡面的一些輕軌建設等等這些都是很專業的討論"},{"start":192.321,"end":212.318,"text":"我相信專業啊所以我現在才想請教張景生也好或是說前交通部長賀承旦也好現在都講出來說認為說這是不可行沒有辦法解決問題我開宗明義講是說我們全台各縣市的人都有資格有最好的交通品質但是怎麼樣做那現在就變成是說"},{"start":213.419,"end":237.737,"text":"大家認為是花了四千億沒有辦法解決問題而且甚至連民進黨的宜蘭縣長候選人在他臉書上貼說要支持宜蘭高鐵下面都有很多支持者講啊都在臉書上講是說他支持他我是民進黨支持者但是我反對宜蘭高鐵那就代表是說政府的決策跟現在宜蘭人的想法訴求可能是有落差的啊"},{"start":238.325,"end":261.266,"text":"報告委員來 部長我所看到的宜蘭縣議會大部分的民意代表其實是支持宜蘭高鐵的方案那宜蘭的立法委員也表達過他支持宜蘭高鐵的方案甚至宜蘭縣政府其實也有表達過他們支持宜蘭高鐵的方案所以前交通部長賀承旦的聲音或是前政委張景生的聲音"},{"start":262.449,"end":288.154,"text":"他們不重要還是說他們就不夠專業他們的聲音我們都很重視他們也都在政府部門做過事所以應該很清楚政府部門在做這些決策的過程當中有很嚴謹而且專業的討論過程就是因為這樣所以說本席才好奇說為什麼會有那麼大的落差來 不好意思那個鄭董事長台鐵鄭董事長我知道因為您之前這個腳受傷特別請教不過我就請教您一個專業的問題因為我覺得在現場您真的很有資格發個言"},{"start":293.212,"end":301.389,"text":"過去您是高鐵的董事長現在是台鐵的董事長本席不是要給你陷阱題 您放心但是本席很認真的要請教"},{"start":302.536,"end":323.288,"text":"過去高鐵評估說所謂的宜蘭高鐵或是說現在有人講是說如果宜蘭可以直鐵讓台鐵用新的自強號普悠瑪或是更好的這個列車來服務能夠有比較低的成本但是能夠快速的服務讓宜蘭人能夠也有很快速整點多班次的一個交通工具"},{"start":324.164,"end":340.924,"text":"您覺得哪一個方案會是你站在有擔任過高鐵董事長跟台鐵董事長兩個評估那你現在台鐵董事長您覺得勒有沒有在更重啟或是討論的空間而不是像現在一味的就講說不管什麼聲音我就是高鐵我就是要硬幹到底"},{"start":341.533,"end":362.359,"text":"而且目前的這個規劃的方向應該是我是贊成的就是說高鐵 讓高鐵直接到宜蘭去這樣的話呢整個我們高鐵目前的這個好的品質啊這個一路到這個宜蘭那鄭董事長有沒有聽到前政委張景生在他臉書上直接講說如果說高鐵到宜蘭會是史詩級災難"},{"start":363.686,"end":386.981,"text":"我有聽說 但是我沒有很詳細去了解他講的那您認同這個話嗎至少我目前看來是這個我不認同這樣一個講法你不認同 好 來 部長所以現在就變成是一個非常大的落差因為張景深政委他直接在臉書上講他講說給行政院院長了然後行政院院長也說交辦給你了"},{"start":387.481,"end":414.066,"text":"然後馬政委也講說你不要再賴了啊院長都有看到啊那甚至講說這個民進黨的高官們每一個人都支持啊那為什麼會有這樣的落差民眾的感受我不曉得哪些高官們支持哪些高官因為你那天那個婚禮沒有去嘛對不對看起來那個婚禮是你沒有去嘛不然可能張景深就直接跟你討論了嘛如果張景深政委可以再明確一點說哪些人是反對高鐵"},{"start":415.006,"end":436.684,"text":"宜蘭案我覺得或許可以再來討論但他沒有講得很清楚這我不曉得他所謂的史詩級的災難我想是不是史詩級的災難這個有點形容詞啦這是形容詞再來針對他所說的那個內容我看報導的說法一他所說的金額很像說錯了不是4000億是3500多億"},{"start":439.807,"end":467.547,"text":"第二他的公里數也說錯了他說只有40公里其實是60公里我不曉得他所說的依據是什麼但我建議因為交通是很專業的討論跟評估政府不會亂花錢就是因為交通是專業的討論跟評估所以才會看到說連民進黨任內的高官不管是政委或是交通部長曾經擔任都會跳出來反對"},{"start":468.408,"end":484.836,"text":"那就代表說這樣子一個討論其實是連民進黨內部都沒有辦法說服自己的那如果說連民進黨政府過去擔任高官的人都沒有辦法說服自己你很難能夠讓人民放心是說這樣子的一個工程會不會能夠達到你原本預計的效果"},{"start":485.396,"end":510.19,"text":"我想這就是現在的癥結點報告員這其實經過了最後當然還是要交通部來去做一個拍板或說你們做出的不管可行性評估綜合規劃等等來後續的研議但更重要的是為什麼會現在一個建設出來之後反而會讓很多人而且重點我一直強調這一些並不是在野黨他們過去都是你在擔任民進黨政府時候的高官來"},{"start":513.168,"end":542.144,"text":"因為今天還是要討論觀光我還是就叫一下觀光啦來兩位這個局長跟董事長可以先請回來觀光署署長本席在三個月前討論交通委員會的時候討論我們所謂觀光逆差那時候我就已經有提醒過就今年看起來有可能會突破觀光逆差破千萬那那個時候我也一直一而再再提醒是說你的觀光報告真的不要粉飾太平要看到我們現在的問題"},{"start":543.342,"end":562.899,"text":"但很顯然的我覺得現在跟民眾感受差很多我就先救教一下我們在這一次公布出來所謂的這個觀光國旅的產值2024因為現在我們只有統計到2024年嘛113年嘛對不對國旅產值我們現在全年有多少"},{"start":569.98,"end":585.357,"text":"目前 前年 觀光署的非常華麗的報告 華麗的數據5158 這是1月到9月的部分113年 5158億多少人次 多少旅次"},{"start":598.554,"end":616.707,"text":"2.2 2.2 2.2億2.2億屢次怎麼算的國人會很訝異啊因為你講是說這個產值跟屢次都屢創新高比疫情前都還要好那國人就會好奇啊明明跟我們大家的感受不一樣國屢感覺是比較冷門國屢是相對來講比較弱勢而且現在觀光利差破千萬那你怎麼算出來說有2.2億屢次屢次怎麼算的"},{"start":620.532,"end":646.092,"text":"這個因為長時間的調查所以我是不是請我們企劃組組長來跟大家說明因為那個真的很認真 您的定義是什麼組長 你真的對你的業務沒有那麼的純熟我只能這樣講你的屢次是個人為了觀光 休閒 商務等目的從日常生活地點到外地活動再返回原地算一次完整的旅程這叫屢次"},{"start":647.492,"end":656.385,"text":"所以你把觀光 休閒 商務等相關活動都變成履次那這樣就是會灌水 你知道嗎"},{"start":659.344,"end":672.531,"text":"來 我們今天的部會我知道有些部會都是外縣市對不對你今天外縣市的部會來立法院開會今天開完會之後再回你外縣市你也被觀光產值你也被觀光產值納入一個屢次這個是依照國際的統計標準而且是歷年來都是這樣子統計之前 部長之前並沒有這樣統計"},{"start":687.879,"end":700.754,"text":"屢次是 你們為了要現在部長 真的之前你沒有刻意去講這樣的一個數據你也沒有講這樣的一個產值其實數據都有 只是有沒有被凸顯出來部長"},{"start":704.625,"end":728.474,"text":"部長本席就是因為非常重視所以我才會說看到這樣的一個數字是不是我請觀光署您說過去沒有這樣的我請觀光署提出過去10年的數據給委員部長本席就是因為很重視這樣的數據而且重點在於是你的觀光逆差那個時候我們就提到了就說不要美化國旅的數字國旅現在有很多的問題但是它不能寫假的啊"},{"start":729.094,"end":753.826,"text":"當然不能寫假的但是你也不能去美化數據你也不能去你也不能去講是說部長你今天部長本席現在最重要在於是當國人大家都覺得是說我們的觀光有很大的問題我們都要努力的時候當我們觀光署居然拿出一個數據講是說這個是一個比疫情前還要好的一個數據五千多億全國華然啊"},{"start":755.387,"end":776.181,"text":"只有講是說我們什麼時候我們的國內觀光可以到五千多億然後就有兩億多次的屢次數據是依據事實不是依據感覺數據是依據事實所以我可以請報告署提出過去十年的數據就是因為依據事實本席才要在這邊再提出來就說這絕對不是一個觀光的屢次嘛"},{"start":777.165,"end":792.949,"text":"今天所有部會上來開會都可以算一個履次然後結果我們 來 我再請教平均每人消費多少錢2323元你的第一名是誰你的第一名是什麼項目參議"},{"start":799.861,"end":815.552,"text":"你第一名花費在餐飲最多第二名花費在交通最多那不就是一樣嗎你今天國人我所有我就不要講其他就部會首長來到立法院開會都可以算一個履次然後你部會首長來立法院吃便當也可以算成是我們觀光產值"},{"start":816.613,"end":845.261,"text":"報告委員觀光產值當然有五千多億但是有多少根本就是國人日常生活這個是主計總署所核定的這就是日常生活這根本就不是旅行產值過去到現在為止一直都是這麼統計方式部長如果說你真的要這樣講的話那我就必須要跟你很直接的講就是說這樣子的一個計算方法跟我們國人以及跟你所謂的觀光就完全落差太大這個我們可以來討論委員如果有更好的計算方法"},{"start":847.024,"end":875.107,"text":"連部會首長來立法院開會吃個便當都可以算到觀光產值的時候那我們到底我們的觀光可以有多少產量這才是重點啊你會覺得無奈本席更無奈國內的旅客更無奈國內的旅行社更無奈所有的民眾都覺得是說當我們的國旅已經變成是低迷的時候沒想到我們觀光署給我們的一個公開數據是五千多億創新高"},{"start":876.283,"end":883.385,"text":"那生活在什麼地方啊平清時空所以本席才會講是說我們要針對問題我們要針對問題來解決問題並不是美化數字是沒有錯這個我接受謝謝謝謝侯孟楷召委交通委員會啊是史詩級"}]}},{"id":"167321","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167321","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a888804748968b746276bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b47990b0cb07845b95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"09:10:33 - 09:12:50","影片長度":"00:02:17","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:10:33+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T09:12:50+08:00","duration":137,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":58.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.688468750000006,"end":134.77784375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.41,"end":14.649,"text":"主席 謝謝主席這次本人針對發展觀光條例66條之一提出修法最主要的原因是新北市議會在去年提出了新北市天真之日條例的一個法案的擬定"},{"start":15.129,"end":34.836,"text":"那送來中央審議的時候在內政部以及法務部的同仁都認定這樣子的一個裡面自治條例裡面的一個收費他不屬於規費而是屬於特別功課而在特別功課裡面他就必須要有一個母法的一個支持那也就是我今天提出這一次的修訂的一個最主要的一個原因"},{"start":35.336,"end":56.914,"text":"那修法的一個精神就在於大家都知道現在使用者付費大家都越來越有這樣子的一個觀念但是規費跟特別功課的差別在於規費它是一個大水庫的一個理論那特別功課它比較有專款專用的一個性質它能夠針對特別的一個行為來設立一個特別的一個來收入特別的預算來做這個"},{"start":58.815,"end":75.933,"text":"特定的一個支出那也就是說我們在想像一個如果說我們在做觀光發展的時候天然發展的時候那他勢必大家過去常常提的一些環保或者是人民財產損失的一些問題的時候他可以利用這一筆特別功課的一個基金來做特定的支出而不是說這筆觀光的一個發展的費用他後續產生的一些額外的"},{"start":81.518,"end":108.84,"text":"外部成本是由全體的納稅人用共和的稅收來支應我想這是對於全體的納稅人也有稍微不公平的地方因此這次提出這次的修法希望說在地方發展觀光的同時地方政府也必須朝永續發展的角度來邁進當我們要永續發展的時候就必須要針對我們的環境或者是產生的第三方成本的時候或產生公害的時候政府也要"},{"start":109.8,"end":130.072,"text":"專門的預算來應付這些支出那反這次的修法是針對新北市的天然自治條例來提出一個母法的支持那當然我相信這樣的一個法令的制定未來不會只有新北市天然自治條例會適用到而是各地的觀光產業都可以因應他們當地因地制宜所產生的一些自己本身發現的問題來訂定自治條例來永續各地方的觀光發展以上"}]}},{"id":"167320","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167320","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a885831eae667870c1b6bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b47990b0cb07845b95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:06:23 - 09:10:16","影片長度":"00:03:53","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:06:23+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T09:10:16+08:00","duration":233,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.14909375000000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.38534375,"end":3.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.03034375,"end":29.140343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.37659375,"end":58.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.53659375,"end":64.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.10096875,"end":108.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.53721875000001,"end":159.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.60096875000002,"end":170.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.97471875000002,"end":173.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.04596875000001,"end":191.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.13596875000002,"end":217.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.75221875000003,"end":220.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.77284375000002,"end":232.14659375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.441,"end":27.327,"text":"好 主席各位同仁以及我們在場的政府官員感謝本期提案修法發展觀光條例的部分條文其實是在現在台灣觀光正面臨關鍵的轉型期經營形態越來越多元的情況現行法規應該要與時俱進才能落實永續發展跟保障顧客與旅客的權益也因此幾個部分要跟大家緊要說明第一 我們希望能夠讓增進觀光的內涵"},{"start":29.508,"end":57.744,"text":"把觀光工廠過去一直都是被經濟部工廠法所下管理但是我們全台灣100多個觀光工廠其實觀光才是重點而能夠讓大家有更進一步的觀光內涵這才是我們希望能夠推廣的一個地方也因此在修法的內容裡面第二條把觀光工廠也納入觀光地區裡面讓中央主管機關能夠來評估同意提供"},{"start":58.785,"end":64.146,"text":"觀光旅客來所謂的觀光地區二 落實數位治理"},{"start":65.168,"end":90.657,"text":"目前觀光統計資料都散落在各處缺乏明確的法源依據來整理也因此本席提案修正第六條希望民定中央主管機關有權請求提供統計資訊才能夠有完整的數據基礎以做後續的精準行銷把公共服務送到真正需要的地方再來我們提升行政彈性以及整合推廣"},{"start":91.497,"end":107.939,"text":"首先針對第十條有兩個部分調整一個是把風景特定區的管理組織修正為機關或是機構符合目前國家級風景區的管理處行政現況另外我們也希望把原有的福島修正為配合推廣"},{"start":108.86,"end":129.359,"text":"觀光絕對不是單打獨鬥透過法規的引導讓各部會能夠有效的整合資源共同打響台灣觀光的品牌以及最後是希望能夠保障旅客的權益31條裡面責任保險的部分實務上我們發現理賠往往需要旅行社協助參與提供"},{"start":130.239,"end":158.528,"text":"參團的證明或是事故調查文件但是如果說業者消極的處理旅客的理賠往往就會卡住過去也屢屢發生過類似的案例也因此特別增訂第五項明確要求旅行社如果說在觀光事故發生之後三個月內應該要向保險公司提出申請把這一項義務入法不要讓受害的旅客面對意外的時候還要因為程序的繁瑣而苦等不到賠償"},{"start":159.708,"end":172.376,"text":"最後本期也要為我們在場的廖縣長委員來再說一下他的增訂66條之一其實也是為我們新北市以及相關地區各縣市如果說有這個觀光"},{"start":174.253,"end":196.706,"text":"觀光發展的一個企圖能夠有做永續的基金的一個規劃的時候需要有母法跟子法的一個依據目前各縣市有些地方已經有做這個相關子法但缺乏母法的一個保障還是有摯愛難行之處也因此我們也希望配合不管是新北市不管是各縣市只要有意推動觀光"},{"start":197.486,"end":219.987,"text":"有意能夠提升觀光的一個內涵跟精進的話我想中央部會應該也要大力支持中央地方一條心才能共同的讓台灣觀光被世界看見這次修法是建立更好的產業秩序更建立一個讓旅客安心業者有彈性的觀光環境後續審議的時候我們也希望"},{"start":220.828,"end":231.194,"text":"行政部門能夠開誠布公大家一條一條的針對專業來做好好的審查我們希望能夠讓台灣觀光建立更完善的法律基礎以上 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167329","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167329","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a8870eae5b38afff71452fd623850d83d5bef4d1ce49928203b1257d1c12132fb9b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"10:55:15 - 11:07:58","影片長度":"00:12:43","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:55:15+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:07:58+08:00","duration":763,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.7134687500000005,"end":7.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.333468750000002,"end":9.126593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.235968750000001,"end":32.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.09346875,"end":47.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.85971875,"end":42.876593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.876593750000005,"end":43.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.97346875,"end":45.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.55096875,"end":57.321593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.66909375,"end":49.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.03596875,"end":49.930343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.930343750000006,"end":49.947218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.947218750000005,"end":49.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.908468750000004,"end":55.971593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.321593750000005,"end":60.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.907843750000005,"end":60.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.96659375,"end":62.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.759718750000005,"end":64.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.74659375,"end":73.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.10096875,"end":65.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.11346875000001,"end":66.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.16284375000001,"end":74.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.82096875,"end":74.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.92221875,"end":76.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.28471875000001,"end":78.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.92596875000001,"end":80.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.77784375,"end":85.28346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.61721875,"end":82.75221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.65471875,"end":86.78534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.49409375,"end":93.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.00784375,"end":116.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.59909375000001,"end":120.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.17659375000001,"end":144.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.29096875000002,"end":147.87284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.81784375,"end":151.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.95659375,"end":154.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.55096875,"end":157.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.77409375000002,"end":168.83159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.45596875,"end":172.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.84784375,"end":179.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.74971875,"end":187.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.28846875000002,"end":189.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.19534375,"end":192.06846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.33846875,"end":202.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.83471875,"end":203.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.03721875000002,"end":203.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.08784375000002,"end":203.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.96534375000002,"end":298.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.42971875,"end":230.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.66909375,"end":238.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.52534375000002,"end":239.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.88784375,"end":321.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.79784375,"end":303.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.96659375,"end":305.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.41534375000003,"end":329.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.26221875000005,"end":329.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.98784375,"end":332.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.90284375000005,"end":345.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.62659375000004,"end":355.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.80659375000005,"end":361.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.74221875,"end":376.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.00159375000004,"end":395.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.80034375,"end":402.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.41534375000003,"end":416.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.85284375000003,"end":410.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.86971875,"end":410.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.95409375,"end":411.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.26971875000004,"end":436.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.82346875,"end":484.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.40034375000005,"end":444.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.81659375000004,"end":454.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.52909375,"end":497.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":487.02659375,"end":487.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.32159375000003,"end":489.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.48596875000004,"end":490.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":491.81909375000004,"end":492.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.04659375000006,"end":494.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":495.58221875000004,"end":495.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.79284375000003,"end":515.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.41721875,"end":498.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.97409375,"end":499.10909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.68034375,"end":548.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.5134687500001,"end":530.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.74971875,"end":530.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.5990937500001,"end":557.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.30659375,"end":594.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.9653437500001,"end":582.1003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.6553437499999,"end":594.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.68909375,"end":594.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.7565937500001,"end":594.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.7734687500001,"end":620.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.37221875,"end":598.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.1653437500001,"end":598.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.31096875,"end":611.3447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.3447187500001,"end":611.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.8003437500001,"end":611.9522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.68159375,"end":615.7322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.17034375,"end":624.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.5078437500001,"end":620.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.7265937500001,"end":644.7234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.2665937500001,"end":625.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.21284375,"end":649.0772187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.79846875,"end":661.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.98721875,"end":658.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.08846875,"end":658.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.80096875,"end":670.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.5590937500001,"end":672.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.17909375,"end":711.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.89471875,"end":683.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.24471875,"end":712.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.57784375,"end":713.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.7084687500001,"end":715.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.7422187500001,"end":713.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.22284375,"end":719.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.86784375,"end":734.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.1922187499999,"end":723.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.8359687500001,"end":750.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.2365937500001,"end":736.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":748.96034375,"end":751.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.94721875,"end":753.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":753.60096875,"end":757.6340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":758.22471875,"end":759.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":760.2834687500001,"end":762.9665937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.952,"end":7.233,"text":"謝謝主席 請時部長"},{"start":11.4,"end":31.628,"text":"六點好 部長好 我要接續我們醫界很敬重我們的蘇清泉院長的問題你剛剛說醫師加班費免稅這件事你剛剛說很快會有好消息 什麼時候我們追蹤很久了 本來上次你跟我說今年就可以用了 那到底是什麼時候"},{"start":32.388,"end":60.644,"text":"因為當然我們要釐清像剛剛這個蘇委員特別提到有的是加班有的是值班啦其實簡單講就是有正常工時制的跟輪班制的等一下部長怎麼說什麼時候有這個好消息啊應該你什麼時候公佈然後你們協調怎麼樣下個月我們大概協調的還有一次會議還有一次再一次就沒確定了嗎最後就拍板了再一次會議就拍板了所以最快是什麼時候會有定案"},{"start":61.945,"end":75.541,"text":"2月農曆年前可不可以給一個好消息農曆年前你要這個對不對我們在講今天急診的像血汗醫護你要在農曆年前給大家一個小紅包吧過年以前我們發個函啦"},{"start":78.095,"end":93.381,"text":"過年前發函我們趕一下看看我們發函好過年前可以發函喔我今天的質詢這樣子就有一個有一個成果好那部長再來我要再剛這題剛這題你答應了喔過年前發函好"},{"start":95.041,"end":119.788,"text":"那再來就是我要問一下部長現在有這個多重病毒傳播國際化的問題那這個當然最近這個世界上動盪很大那部長美國的衛生部長小羅伯·甘奈迪他說基於世衛與COVID-19的這個疫情期間的失職表現美國已經正式要退出WHO"},{"start":121.249,"end":147.434,"text":"那他的副部長O'Neill又說WHO忽視台灣在2019年對於COVID-19的早期示警陷入官僚主義利益衝突以及國際的權力政治但是世衛的專家范科霍夫卻說O'Neill所說的完全不實他又說台灣並未警告世衛那台灣是在同一天向世衛"},{"start":149.054,"end":157.545,"text":"這個索取資訊那是會沒有忽視台灣那我也注意到我們陳時中政委有反駁說台灣雖然沒有明確的說出"},{"start":158.98,"end":182.88,"text":"會人傳人但是強調非典肺炎的特性且這個病患呢均隔離治療強烈的暗示人傳人的可能性那我想要請問一下部長台灣有確實依照國際衛生條例IHR的第六條通報世衛但為何會出現這樣的資訊落差那我也有去看了一下這個IHR的條文跟附件"},{"start":183.44,"end":201.91,"text":"通報的條文和適用的決策文件的實例的確不需要指名說人傳人那就是要問一下部長現在美國要正式退出WHO那也打算成立新的國際衛生體系那我們未來會參加美國新成立的衛生體系嗎"},{"start":202.83,"end":229.94,"text":"好 跟委員說明有關於當時候的通報2020年4月的時候指揮中心特別把當時候我們CDC發給衛生組織的那一個英文信公開給大家看上面明確的提到那麼有幾例的有7例的artipical pneumonia就是不典型肺炎的發生同時正在接受isolated treatment就是隔離的治療"},{"start":230.74,"end":256.066,"text":"所以這已經很明顯的暗示這是一個不尋常的可能有人傳人感染的風險所以當時候可惜的是WHO忽略了台灣的這封信沒有及時的反映出說這個可能是一個人傳人的非典型肺炎所以確實我覺得美國次長所言是正確的"},{"start":256.986,"end":273.691,"text":"那麼至於說美國退出WHO我想對WHO的衝擊可能遠比對台灣的衝擊更大但是WHO仍然是目前重要的國際公共衛生醫療上面的一個"},{"start":274.591,"end":297.867,"text":"平台所以我們還是希望積極的爭取那麼參加那麼積極的參與活動那未來如果美國成立有另外的這個公共衛生的國際平台當然我們也會去積極的爭取加入那麼總是希望這個病毒或傳染病是沒有國界的所以意思就是說我們也會去爭取加入啦會"},{"start":298.948,"end":317.786,"text":"因為我也是在想說你剛剛的答案就是說兩個你們都還是要持續的參與因為我剛剛也是的確我是覺得說因為過去年年編預算你們發新聞稿說要爭取加入WHO可是其實剛剛你說的對WHO衝擊很大這個美國是帶頭大哥他都跑走了"},{"start":318.447,"end":341.723,"text":"那這個組織的資源大幅縮水所以我剛剛也是很想要問一下說那我們現在到底怎麼辦所以你現在一直說我們兩邊還是要持續爭取對好所以我想這個部分我們要拜託你要持續的追蹤希望可以持續的這個爭取實質的有意義的參與這些國際組織好再來我想要問一下"},{"start":346.667,"end":359.478,"text":"部長我們也可以看到台灣的現況現在台積電為主的相關產業鏈和最優秀的人才最充裕的資金都向美輸出但是根據台大醫院的研究以往在台灣極為罕見的這個"},{"start":362.816,"end":378.406,"text":"求黴菌症尤其在這個高風險族群如免疫力低下的相關的族群都可能會發生嚴重的肺部或這個擴散性的感染那在2021年前的我們我國只有一例"},{"start":378.986,"end":394.037,"text":"但是最近這兩年它增加了12例也就是增加了變多了而且所有的病例都曾經赴美國的亞利桑那州跟加州那其中有六成從事半導體相關的產業它的這個趨勢跟台灣半導體去亞利桑那州的擴張持續有點蠻吻合的所以"},{"start":402.703,"end":418.166,"text":"這個患者多半雖然目前是這個所謂的輕微啦或感冒啦或者是肺炎但是如果是免疫力差的就會變重症喔那針對這波的病毒患人才的公共衛生逆差那衛福部除了加強監測有沒有什麼具體的"},{"start":419.608,"end":436.466,"text":"邊境的這個風險管控的方案那有沒有針對這部分的高風險的地區返台人才建立專屬的這個指引或者是通報的SOP或者像宣導這個立百病毒一樣加強宣導前往該地區的旅客應該注意的事項是"},{"start":437.327,"end":459.959,"text":"是跟委員說明確實如同我剛剛提到病毒或者是傳染病是沒有國界的而且隨著這個人員移動的頻繁它就會造成這個疾病的這個散播啦那所以這個加強監測都是我們CDC一直在做的事情那這個監測不只是監測國內也要監測全球發生的這個"},{"start":465.201,"end":475.892,"text":"變化統統要納入所以像立白病毒也是一樣雖然國內至今沒有驗出任何一例或者任何的確診病例可是因為國際有這個狀況為了強化這個通報監測及時察覺所以我們才會去預告說把它列為第五類傳染病那這個我們也會評估講到講的就是針對這一塊"},{"start":488.224,"end":515.118,"text":"因為時間有限 我就是要提醒部長這塊你可能也要去注意 監控一下趕快去做相關的這個這個宣導 是 對不對那另外就是除了這個球黴菌症之外類似的傳播途徑啊跟這個各類的變種病毒的也是很多啦所以包含著你們有監測的這個中國大陸目前的鼻病毒那它的還有流感疫情都處於高點啦那國內也出現首例"},{"start":516.116,"end":529.532,"text":"這個俗稱這個蘋果病的B19的微小病毒那它會併發這個心肌炎那也有這個個案甚至我們台中有名女童忽然在跟家人出遊的時候她就大叫一聲她就猝死了所以"},{"start":531.654,"end":556.763,"text":"我想這個很多人都人心惶惶啦那所以大家會這麼害怕的原因主要是因為目前這個B19病毒他好像沒有疫苗也沒有特效藥嘛那會併發心肌炎的死亡率也高達30%所以現在面對這個春節返鄉草基層診所有沒有配備足夠的這種快篩啦或是診斷的試劑或是還是要等到他們必須送到這個醫學中心才可以確診"},{"start":558.619,"end":584.285,"text":"當然有一些比較罕見的病確實這個只能是提高警覺那適時的要要後送因為這個經驗的累積還是重要的所以我們會去強化所以我們有這個醫界通函經常會去提醒這個所有的第一線的人員注意那有發覺的時候就要通報後送這個還是有需要大概不太可能說這個"},{"start":586.067,"end":590.234,"text":"這些病都在第一線就完全治療大概我們是強化這個體系之間的這個轉診這樣好"},{"start":595.748,"end":616.547,"text":"那這個部分也是要提醒一下部長那另外就是剛剛最後因為其實今天題目蠻多的最後一天不過我最後還是問一下你們的這個APP你們現在去年的春節的急診用賽的產況我想大家今天都很關注那你們預估急診人次也是平日的1.5倍到1.7倍左右"},{"start":617.248,"end":628.822,"text":"那你們宣稱你們專案有七大監測指標那也針對這次的這個緊急醫療管理資訊系統的部分我想要問說你們有經過相關的壓力測試嗎因為你們每一秒可能都有幾萬筆的資料要更新等等的那你們可不可以承諾說到時候"},{"start":636.751,"end":648.984,"text":"這個APP是不會當機不會延遲那另外你們更新是30分鐘有落差喔我在想因為很多就醫是很很緊急的狀況有沒有辦法做到10分鐘內更新等等的"},{"start":650.854,"end":671.389,"text":"那個EMIS的更新那個我們是跟醫院的資訊系統直接串接的所以它的更新我記得是兩分鐘幾分鐘我先補充一下就是說我們分兩塊一塊是民眾這邊就醫的是健保的那個健保快醫"},{"start":672.31,"end":687.607,"text":"然後那我們的那個在跟醫院接接的時候我們是那個急救責任是200多家醫院所以我們其實從1月12號之後其實就開始做所謂的壓力測試就是他們上傳資料然後那因為這個資料目前是手動的"},{"start":688.268,"end":714.742,"text":"目前是手動的所以他更新速度沒有辦法那麼快可是我們在這個調整過程當中如果要做自動化的話其實大概委員講的那個剛剛我們部長講的是已經自動化的他大概就可以做到就是那個10分鐘內絕對可以做update完現在是因為那個指標部分還在做標準化所以這個地方上面的那個更新的速度就沒那麼快指標還沒有那麼快嗎對指標還沒那麼快那什麼時候可以"},{"start":716.294,"end":742.257,"text":"就是你們打算什麼時候他可以就是你剛說手動的部分對手動的部分因為現在只有填數字所以也不會造成是說第一線同仁的困擾然後那預計就是這個春節完之後有一些東西因為我們的春節是這個大概就是七九天的假期嘛所以春節完之後最重要的是後面春節完通常才是急診用篩的一個"},{"start":743.178,"end":762.36,"text":"更恐怖的一個 另外一個要去調整的空間那個地方的話 我們是在那段時間會再去做調整對 以上OK 好 謝謝以上謝謝 謝謝石部長好 謝謝委員好 謝謝廖委員 謝謝部長我們現在休息五分鐘接著期待林淑恩來時期"}]}},{"id":"167328","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167328","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88fb0061af45f088a76bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b75a5986f83a3d5885ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林俊憲","委員發言時間":"10:47:47 - 11:00:16","影片長度":"00:12:29","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:47:47+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:00:16+08:00","duration":749,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.43596875,"end":1.6340937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2.0222187500000004,"end":3.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3.7434687500000003,"end":5.2790937499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.337218750000002,"end":21.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18.981593750000002,"end":19.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.95159375,"end":26.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.96346875,"end":27.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.95909375,"end":31.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31.70534375,"end":31.722218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.722218750000003,"end":31.739093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.14409375,"end":34.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.52346875,"end":40.244093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.547843750000006,"end":40.885343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":41.35784375,"end":42.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":43.01159375,"end":45.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.572218750000005,"end":48.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.103468750000005,"end":50.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":51.719093750000006,"end":54.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.97596875,"end":55.971593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":56.62971875,"end":56.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.64659375,"end":72.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.09971875000001,"end":73.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.11659375,"end":79.83284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.18284375,"end":81.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":82.02659375,"end":83.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":84.65909375000001,"end":86.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":87.29159375,"end":88.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.62471875,"end":89.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":90.73409375,"end":92.47221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.11346875000001,"end":93.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":94.05846875,"end":94.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":94.56471875000001,"end":95.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.69096875000001,"end":97.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":97.88909375,"end":101.71971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.32721875,"end":105.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.12409375,"end":107.64284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.55409375,"end":116.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.58659375,"end":126.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.71159375,"end":129.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":130.06971875000002,"end":130.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.26784375,"end":136.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":136.93784375,"end":137.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.33846875,"end":144.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":145.29096875000002,"end":145.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":145.94909375,"end":154.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":155.26409375,"end":157.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.62659375,"end":159.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.58409375000002,"end":159.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.70221875000001,"end":159.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.80346875,"end":167.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.02596875,"end":169.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.45596875,"end":172.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.91534375,"end":175.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.61534375000002,"end":180.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":178.73721875,"end":179.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":182.56784375,"end":186.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":187.68096875,"end":188.35596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":188.87909375,"end":190.75221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":191.15721875,"end":191.17409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":191.17409375000003,"end":192.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":193.85721875000002,"end":194.16096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.49846875,"end":196.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.96221875,"end":197.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.00409375,"end":201.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":202.88534375,"end":204.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":204.43784375,"end":204.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":205.61909375000002,"end":210.98534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":211.12034375000002,"end":213.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":214.24221875,"end":215.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":216.41909375,"end":224.11409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.46846875000003,"end":225.78471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.54409375,"end":227.08409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.84346875000003,"end":229.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":230.61096875,"end":232.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.90596875000003,"end":233.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.17159375000003,"end":234.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":235.09971875000002,"end":235.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":236.73659375000003,"end":237.54659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.54659375000003,"end":237.56346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.28909375,"end":238.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.96409375000002,"end":239.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.95971875,"end":245.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":244.65096875,"end":248.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.11909375000002,"end":246.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.67159375000003,"end":256.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.21034375,"end":257.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.03721875,"end":257.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.42534375,"end":257.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.76284375,"end":257.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":258.75846875,"end":260.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":261.01971875000004,"end":262.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.87596875,"end":264.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.73221875,"end":265.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.45346875,"end":271.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":271.66784375000003,"end":272.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.47784375000003,"end":275.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":276.67971875,"end":278.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.34159375,"end":281.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":281.57346875,"end":283.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":283.91909375,"end":285.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":285.84284375000004,"end":287.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.93096875000003,"end":296.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.35284375000003,"end":289.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":291.36096875000004,"end":293.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.68471875,"end":319.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.50284375,"end":304.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.58221875000004,"end":308.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.84596875,"end":320.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.52096875,"end":320.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.72346875,"end":321.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":321.02721875000003,"end":326.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.96284375000005,"end":328.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":330.71346875,"end":335.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.48909375,"end":349.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.27284375000005,"end":343.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.03221875,"end":344.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":350.22096875,"end":352.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.81971875000005,"end":354.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":354.45659375,"end":354.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":355.40159375,"end":357.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.96659375,"end":357.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":357.98346875000004,"end":358.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.01721875000004,"end":358.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":358.42221875,"end":358.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.96221875000003,"end":366.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":364.37909375000004,"end":364.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":367.01159375000003,"end":368.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":369.52596875,"end":369.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":370.11659375000005,"end":371.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":372.12471875,"end":375.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.25909375000003,"end":379.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":380.03909375,"end":381.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":381.82784375,"end":382.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":383.27909375,"end":384.00471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":384.64596875,"end":387.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":387.91971875,"end":390.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":391.81784375,"end":393.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":393.77534375000005,"end":395.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.47534375000004,"end":397.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":397.69034375,"end":399.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.69846875,"end":400.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":400.76159375000003,"end":402.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.09034375000005,"end":403.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.76534375,"end":404.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.52471875000003,"end":408.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":408.54096875000005,"end":411.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":411.89909375,"end":414.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":414.98721875,"end":415.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":416.80971875,"end":417.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.92346875000004,"end":419.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":419.79659375,"end":422.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":423.12096875000003,"end":425.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":427.52534375000005,"end":432.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.43159375000005,"end":435.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.24971875000006,"end":439.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":439.52346875,"end":440.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":440.78909375,"end":443.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":444.01221875000005,"end":444.82221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":445.41284375000004,"end":446.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":447.57284375,"end":451.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":452.51721875000004,"end":453.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":455.11596875000004,"end":457.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.93409375000005,"end":459.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":460.85346875000005,"end":462.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":462.49034375,"end":469.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":469.78034375000004,"end":471.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":472.00784375,"end":472.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":473.79659375000006,"end":475.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.93534375,"end":477.98159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":479.36534375,"end":480.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.05284375,"end":481.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":481.35659375000006,"end":481.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.03159375,"end":483.14534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":482.09909375,"end":482.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.80346875000004,"end":492.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.32534375000006,"end":509.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.89221875000004,"end":515.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":513.1997187500001,"end":513.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":514.7690937500001,"end":515.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":516.33846875,"end":520.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":520.6922187499999,"end":523.2234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.51034375,"end":526.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.64909375,"end":527.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":527.1215937500001,"end":527.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.5603437500001,"end":528.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":528.5053437500001,"end":529.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.99034375,"end":530.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":531.10409375,"end":531.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.6103437500001,"end":533.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":534.76596875,"end":536.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.32659375,"end":544.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":543.76034375,"end":545.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.19471875,"end":547.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":546.9328437500001,"end":549.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.0715937500001,"end":558.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":558.0703437500001,"end":558.6103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":558.94784375,"end":560.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.2978437500001,"end":560.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.9053437499999,"end":560.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":560.9897187500001,"end":562.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.0234687500001,"end":563.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":565.30971875,"end":566.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":568.3640937499999,"end":571.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":572.2453437500001,"end":574.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.68784375,"end":583.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":582.3703437500001,"end":583.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.72034375,"end":586.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":587.78721875,"end":590.0147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.36909375,"end":595.0434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":595.24596875,"end":598.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.7222187500001,"end":599.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.04284375,"end":599.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.07659375,"end":599.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.17784375,"end":600.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.32534375,"end":609.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":608.61096875,"end":611.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.0365937500001,"end":618.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":618.6684687500001,"end":619.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.3897187499999,"end":624.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":624.1697187500001,"end":632.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.94471875,"end":636.5053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":632.97846875,"end":635.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":636.5053437500001,"end":636.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.62346875,"end":636.6572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":637.2140937500001,"end":638.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.2265937500001,"end":638.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":638.46284375,"end":639.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":639.81284375,"end":641.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":641.7365937500001,"end":643.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":643.2553437500001,"end":644.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":646.0734687500001,"end":648.6553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":649.43159375,"end":650.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.7309687500001,"end":652.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":652.8740937499999,"end":653.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":654.9328437500001,"end":654.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.9665937500001,"end":655.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.70909375,"end":655.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":656.6372187500001,"end":656.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":656.6540937500001,"end":657.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.97034375,"end":660.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":660.8559687500001,"end":669.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":669.0234687500001,"end":672.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":673.3940937500001,"end":674.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":674.6597187500001,"end":679.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.16909375,"end":682.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.75971875,"end":683.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":683.5022187500001,"end":683.5359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.5359687499999,"end":684.3797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":683.7722187500001,"end":685.8984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":686.69159375,"end":686.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.4172187500001,"end":687.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.8559687500001,"end":688.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":689.0203437499999,"end":691.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":691.8047187500001,"end":692.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":692.8172187499999,"end":697.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":698.35221875,"end":701.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":702.3515937500001,"end":702.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":703.68471875,"end":704.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":704.81534375,"end":705.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":705.82784375,"end":706.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":707.73471875,"end":710.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":711.0422187500001,"end":712.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":712.94909375,"end":714.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":715.4297187500001,"end":715.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":716.3915937500001,"end":722.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":723.22596875,"end":725.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":726.87096875,"end":729.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.41909375,"end":737.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":737.26596875,"end":738.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":738.73409375,"end":742.2778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":742.61534375,"end":743.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":743.9484687500001,"end":744.3703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":745.58534375,"end":747.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.9734687499999,"end":749.97284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.458,"end":20.559,"text":"好 感謝主席 本席要請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長委員好 部長好 部長我們台南市的一個重大交通建設就是台南鐵路地下化 預計在今年底通測"},{"start":22.014,"end":45.404,"text":"部長好像明天要到台南去主持鐵路地下化的一個接軌儀式對 鋼軌的最後的接軌儀式所以我們地方非常期待這個台南的鐵路地下化對於台南未來的發展非常重要但是受到今年總預算"},{"start":46.801,"end":72.212,"text":"還沒有審查的影響那相關的預算如果沒有辦法動之會不會影響到今年底的通車報告委員確實我們今年的預算是超過去年所以在台南鐵路地下化確實會有預算上面的影響但是通車的部分我們目前還是朝年底之前通車這個目標在努力當中"},{"start":73.188,"end":100.805,"text":"因為他的台南鐵路地下化的中間補助款是由前瞻的預算移編到部裡面來的好那我給你看幾個數字第一個他在去年大概是有編了178億多那今年我現在講的是你所有的鐵道捷運軌道的交通部的一個經費"},{"start":102.389,"end":107.383,"text":"那今年呢 是變了310億台南的也在裡面"},{"start":108.598,"end":134.844,"text":"那這筆預算就是交通部的鐵道還有捷運建設的計畫它包含了桃園桃園的鐵路地下化花東的鐵路雙軌電計畫嘉義市的鐵路高架嘉義縣市的跨縣市的鐵路高架還有台南市的鐵路地下化的計畫等等都在裡面那如果今年2026年的年度總預算沒有過這310億沒有過"},{"start":136.997,"end":142.57,"text":"那你依法大概就只能動之到一個上限就是去年預算的上限178億多是不是這樣是"},{"start":146.154,"end":168.249,"text":"也就是說如果總預算沒有通過的話那你今年只能執行你今年310億大概不到六成大概57%的預算就你比照去年最高的預算你是不是可以動這樣的額度對 報告委員就是差額會有到131億這麼多你有130億 你就沒辦法做那你原本的預算規模310億"},{"start":173.092,"end":201.846,"text":"結果你現在手裡面只有179億所以你就要做預算分配嘛 對不對那很簡單 你要怎麼分配這個影響到各縣市地方重大的交通建設所以這個在野黨不省總預算也害慘了地方啦這個是政治的惡鬥害死國家的發展各縣市的重大建設的發展"},{"start":202.93,"end":231.61,"text":"我在這裡要求部長是那你現在原本的年度預算規模今年310億結果你現在只能動之179億你就去挑啦凡是反對省總預算藍白立委的這個民眾黨沒有就國民黨立委的地方你就不要分配給他那你要不然桃園一塊錢都不要給他桃園哪個禮物都分對"},{"start":233.212,"end":261.872,"text":"總預算啊 花東也是啊這樣要分配嗎 要不然你怎麼分配 你告訴我報告委員 我們是希望每個縣市都不要被放棄啦那但是 各個地方的委員你沒有總預算 你就沒關係 你算了都不要放棄是 各個地方的委員自己也要想辦法來支持這個總預算不然真的會對他們的地方的建設會造成很重大的影響你應該跟地方的縣市長說啊跟投行的張三正說啊花東也是啊"},{"start":262.932,"end":286.498,"text":"啊你們的立委反對省總預算那我交通部今年怎麼 哪有錢補助你鐵道岸捷運的建設相關計畫是是你懂得優先補助像我們這幾期心中有什麼啊台南高雄嘉義這啊那我再請教部長啦我也要求部長啦不可以影響到台南連底通車的計畫"},{"start":288.973,"end":296.391,"text":"有沒有問題我們會盡全力盡全力來努力這個方向那你的全力是有沒有辦法不影響通車的計畫"},{"start":298.992,"end":325.501,"text":"應該是可以啦報告委員明天你要加應該啦明天要去要去做一定可以鋼軌的最後的這個先接我知道啦感謝啦但是預算真的是對我們影響相當相當的大不過我們交通部跟鐵道局會全力努力讓這個台南的鐵路地下化在今年年底來做通車的典禮你的你今年還可以動資大概179億台南市鐵路地下化占多少還有20億"},{"start":328.018,"end":353.304,"text":"你看沒問題吧對不對是是是我看那個人共同一體添頭啊所以不會影響到台南市的鐵路地下化的通車啦就算總預算沒有省好我們達成這樣我們達成這樣一個結論啦你共同比你比較比你比較有擔當耶人家共同都說可以你保證一體要省不用省啦對不對才20億嘛對不對"},{"start":355.464,"end":378.863,"text":"台南的六席立委都支持要省總預算你這個當然要優先給我們啊感謝台南的立委都支持總預算我們會優先來顧及台南鄉親的需求另外我再講一個這兩個都是關於應該跟交通部當然都是業務相關第一個我們國內的旅遊今天大家很關心"},{"start":380.103,"end":402.564,"text":"除了昂貴以外 還會產生一些亂象什麼昂貴啊 不只是吃喝的啦 一般都住那你說國旅貴啊 香貴的就是大你貴沒關係喔 那會產生一些奇奇怪怪的現象例如 現在的人出去借房 訂房一般都透過平台"},{"start":403.126,"end":425.578,"text":"對不對那你平台他有時候遇到廉價或者有重大假設你預訂了 你訂好了結果忽然間公佈說有什麼樣的一個大活動那就會出問題高雄因為演唱會經濟很成功BTS去高雄開演唱會平台就把所有訂房取消"},{"start":428.074,"end":453.392,"text":"平台也叫他在上面有房間的這些飯店先關房再漲價因為他知道這個活動辦了很多人會來對不對你如果這麼有平常的價格賣他覺得可以賺到多因為一個大活動到了大家一定會搶房那有沒有辦法管理"},{"start":455.471,"end":475.4,"text":"你連個公平台你沒辦法管理這個問題其實我以前質詢過了我說這些平台啊現在在在上面賣賣那個賣房間嗎他有很多在上面刊登廣告都是非法的旅宿你老婆都關了你老公先被平台沒落地那現在有沒有辦法管啊現在可以管嗎"},{"start":482.247,"end":508.898,"text":"來 市長 跟委員報告關於像那種惡意棄單的這個部分呢消費者如果遇到這樣的問題就直接跟當地的地方政府的消保官直接申訴那所以如果查證屬實他是可以罰三倍的這是第一個 第二個呢針對非法旅宿的部分呢在法官條例第55條跟51-1條也有只要是非法的部分我們最旅館業最高可以罰兩百萬民宿是最高可以罰一百萬"},{"start":510.178,"end":536.509,"text":"這個部分現在也要求他們在任何刊登廣告上面都要把自己合法的證據都放上來針對非法旅宿你講的嘛他在刊登非法旅宿他刊登廣告的行為他可以罰十萬到一百五十萬是那你有罰嗎一百五十萬最高你有罰嗎目前由地方政府去主責你有罰嗎在平台上刊登呢"},{"start":538.422,"end":548.708,"text":"我們這個是就個案去處理因為這部分就是有一方面就是另一個就是你觀光署有處罰嗎地方政府在做那個你要推給地方政府你觀光署有處罰嗎"},{"start":550.197,"end":574.057,"text":"因為這是全責的話如果說一般旅館跟民宿是地方政府在主責如果是觀光旅館是由我們來直接來開發非法觀光旅館全國都沒有人違規基本上是沒有非法的觀光旅館你在那個在那個平台上刊登的非法旅宿那有沒有要求平台不要讓他刊登"},{"start":575.991,"end":594.868,"text":"這個像我們平常就會請地方政府就要平常要巡查如果有的話就直接發行給他要求他撤撤下你要求誰撤要求OTA平台如果他是在平台上看到的話所以你現在可以管理OTA平台了OTA平台現在已經要求他要在台灣成立公司所以基本上已經可以納管了"},{"start":596.166,"end":611.059,"text":"台灣每一家平台都有落地嗎都有成立公司嗎在這一部分是有兩個方式來處理另外就是說我們那個地方政府會經過利用網路訊號平台大部分都沒有落地"},{"start":612.88,"end":638.976,"text":"國內的旅行社的這一部分全部都用旅行社來登記國內的平台的部分那如果說是不平台落地嗎所以國外的這個因為它是國際的國人大部分都在這幾個大的平台上訂的台灣前三大前五大的平台統統沒有落地啦國際的OTA是不是沒有落地是沒有落地那麼沒有落地什麼落地"},{"start":639.967,"end":660.079,"text":"你到底懂不懂的自己業務不懂得自己了解一下平台都沒有落地啦包括你部長你自己出席的時候你都用哪個網站你都用什麼店報告委員 我已經很久沒有訂房了你沒有訂房喔搞清楚好不好沒有啦 國際的平台目前還沒有落地"},{"start":661.045,"end":685.196,"text":"沒有完全落地但是國內的平台是有落地的但是沒有錯委員講得很正確大部分的國人是用國際的平台在使用你國內平台當然在台灣當然也落地怎麼會這樣講你講的很廢話問題大部分我們現在台灣一般旅客因為國內平台都不好用啦都不好用好啦我們報告委員我們召委再催我時間好了"},{"start":687.982,"end":714.195,"text":"你這個博文已經問了很多次因為發生的舊問都是這樣子啦然後你說他不可以惡意取消訂單他現在有見到投訴的是平台叫這些業者先關一開先取消訂單就先關起來啦然後再重新訂價先關房再訂價那你叫他找平台算賬嘛"},{"start":715.475,"end":728.744,"text":"對不對他就知道有一個大活動要到了那現在可以提高房價了所以大家都先把房間預訂關起來然後再提高定價所以這個就是平台管理的問題"},{"start":729.571,"end":749.866,"text":"報告委員這一部分我們有特別有召開會議跟縣市政府在針對這個做法去做加強舉例你們應該要求這個平台要落地啦到台灣賺錢也不落地也不繳稅好不好好現在部長謝謝謝謝林俊憲委員發言完畢我們先來休息"}]}},{"id":"167319","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167319","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88626c6db3f5ef7fe952fd623850d83d5b9da39f225449bb57f91eb0f286b10d555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇清泉","委員發言時間":"10:42:09 - 10:54:26","影片長度":"00:12:17","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:42:09+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:54:26+08:00","duration":737,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.54096875,"end":7.371593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.92409375,"end":9.970343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.974718750000001,"end":9.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.970343750000001,"end":11.792843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.792843750000003,"end":11.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.84346875,"end":13.547843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.87721875,"end":15.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.93534375,"end":18.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.52971875,"end":22.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.74034375,"end":25.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.406593750000003,"end":26.997218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.92534375,"end":29.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.27534375,"end":29.579093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.372218750000002,"end":33.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.67971875,"end":34.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.08471875,"end":35.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.143468750000004,"end":37.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.16846875,"end":39.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.446593750000005,"end":41.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.65284375,"end":44.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.90159375,"end":46.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.60596875,"end":49.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.69409375,"end":53.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.946593750000005,"end":55.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.13596875,"end":58.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.45221875,"end":59.009093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.26221875,"end":63.548468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.18971875,"end":68.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.69534375,"end":75.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.24284375,"end":75.58034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.58034375000001,"end":75.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.63909375,"end":79.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.10284375,"end":80.44034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.63409375,"end":82.98846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.78159375,"end":84.89534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.09346875,"end":89.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.14784375,"end":89.35034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.68346875,"end":93.51846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.95721875000001,"end":95.61096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.10034375000001,"end":99.20534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.44159375000001,"end":100.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.44971875,"end":102.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.91346875,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.90034375,"end":107.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.71034375,"end":109.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.35971875000001,"end":114.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.87784375000001,"end":117.37971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.59909375000001,"end":118.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.62846875000001,"end":120.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.51846875000001,"end":121.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.25659375000001,"end":124.09596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.50096875000001,"end":125.98596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.04909375000001,"end":136.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.03909375,"end":146.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.21909375,"end":152.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.07034375,"end":154.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.60159375,"end":156.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.91784375,"end":158.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.33096875,"end":162.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.00971875000002,"end":167.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.15659375,"end":175.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.76721875,"end":178.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.97346875000002,"end":180.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.99846875,"end":186.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.03971875000002,"end":192.99659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.82346875000002,"end":198.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.43409375000002,"end":205.11284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.93971875000003,"end":212.40284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.40284375000002,"end":212.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.65596875,"end":217.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.64659375000002,"end":220.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.16096875000002,"end":221.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.18596875,"end":233.32784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.80034375000002,"end":239.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.53346875000003,"end":241.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.71471875,"end":242.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.08596875,"end":243.94221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.34721875000002,"end":244.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.64659375000002,"end":246.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.47346875000002,"end":246.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.79409375,"end":247.43534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.07659375000003,"end":251.85659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.49784375000002,"end":254.01659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.24846875000003,"end":259.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.17596875000004,"end":265.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.04409375,"end":274.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.55346875000004,"end":284.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.78034375000004,"end":280.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.11346875000004,"end":283.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.56034375,"end":287.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.28971875,"end":289.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.53846875,"end":289.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.94346875,"end":289.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.97721875,"end":294.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.79971875,"end":291.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.91784375000003,"end":292.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.09034375000005,"end":296.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.57534375,"end":300.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.72659375,"end":302.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.90784375000004,"end":302.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.81909375000004,"end":303.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.94971875000005,"end":304.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.55721875,"end":310.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.23971875,"end":313.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.77096875,"end":316.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.74096875000004,"end":317.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.56784375,"end":324.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.46971875,"end":327.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.86159375,"end":328.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.09784375000004,"end":329.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.90346875,"end":330.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.72596875000005,"end":334.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.34159375,"end":335.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.93221875,"end":344.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.60159375,"end":349.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.32221875000005,"end":351.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.77346875,"end":351.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.06409375000004,"end":355.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.08096875,"end":355.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.09784375000004,"end":355.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.13159375000004,"end":355.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.14846875,"end":355.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.97534375000004,"end":356.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.05971875,"end":356.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.97096875,"end":359.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.55284375,"end":360.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.98721875,"end":376.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.37721875,"end":424.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.42034375000003,"end":424.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.85909375,"end":447.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.03284375000004,"end":449.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.32346875,"end":456.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.66846875000005,"end":458.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.26721875000004,"end":478.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.11221875,"end":479.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.78721875,"end":481.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.96409375,"end":482.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.55034375,"end":484.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.18284375,"end":491.05971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.53221875,"end":494.50221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.24034375,"end":497.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.33284375000005,"end":505.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.03596875000005,"end":509.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.22971875,"end":516.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.8953437499999,"end":519.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.1015937500001,"end":520.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.45159375,"end":530.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.3784687500001,"end":530.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.6484687500001,"end":533.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.50034375,"end":533.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.78721875,"end":534.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.35659375,"end":540.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.85784375,"end":541.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.12346875,"end":544.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.4734687499999,"end":543.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.50721875,"end":543.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.05971875,"end":548.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.81846875,"end":563.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.88784375,"end":583.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.38534375,"end":569.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.9228437500001,"end":584.7834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.3740937499999,"end":587.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.1540937500001,"end":590.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.4028437500001,"end":591.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.07784375,"end":594.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.1784687500001,"end":601.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.89034375,"end":603.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.7422187500001,"end":608.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.8640937499999,"end":611.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.4753437500001,"end":619.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.0859687500001,"end":624.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.23284375,"end":628.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.18159375,"end":629.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.2109687500001,"end":630.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.1728437500001,"end":631.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.0078437500001,"end":669.3103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.35346875,"end":637.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.48409375,"end":637.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.72471875,"end":664.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.72034375,"end":665.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":665.9184687500001,"end":665.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.9353437500001,"end":668.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":669.3103437500001,"end":669.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.37784375,"end":673.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.6809687500001,"end":677.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.38909375,"end":684.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":684.7847187500001,"end":695.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.53409375,"end":696.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":696.6140937499999,"end":696.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.8503437500001,"end":699.3647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":696.8840937500001,"end":696.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.6853437500001,"end":706.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.02596875,"end":708.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.7978437500001,"end":713.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.5147187500002,"end":711.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.25721875,"end":712.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.67471875,"end":713.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.77596875,"end":713.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.79284375,"end":714.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.36659375,"end":723.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.91784375,"end":727.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.48284375,"end":729.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.1072187500001,"end":728.00159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.564,"end":12.81,"text":"好 謝謝主席 大家辛苦部長 請署長護睡署專門委員部長辛苦啦 醫院就像一條船每一個人都很重要"},{"start":30.427,"end":46.718,"text":"準定,大副、二副、準機長主崩也很重要這麼準,台北人主崩也沒人吃所以上升重要,不定大家都很重要醫院裡面有醫師有放射檢驗15個醫事相關人力"},{"start":57.165,"end":79.252,"text":"沒有說誰重要到不行但是婦理人員真的是很重要一個醫院婦理人力如果能夠搞定這個醫院差不多解這三分之二的事情所以保證得婦理界者得天下你把婦理搞定了你就可以出來選了來這是"},{"start":86.141,"end":104.38,"text":"急診室觀察床的護理點數,上面那個是703,那第二天開始629點喔,那是點不是圓,護理的費用來下一頁,這個是經濟病床,一天是819點"},{"start":107.76,"end":135.153,"text":"那有另外一個是734那如果一個婦女在那裡照顧10床就8190點但是是三班子喔三個人要搬喔所以搬下來一個人差不多兩千多那一個護理人員一個要上班上二十二天勞資法的規定所以一天兩千多二十二天差不多四萬幾個"},{"start":137.093,"end":149.879,"text":"ICU的,我昨天給他查了一下,他一天的護理費ICU,這裡面沒有ICU,沒有,沒有都出出來ICU三千九百幾點,有的是四千幾點但是ICU是一個護士夠兩層"},{"start":153.14,"end":178.627,"text":"所以兩成都要八千多 也三萬多 也兩千多元所以一個人差不多四萬多 失了喔這四萬多還要含他的退休準備金什麼什麼所以是遠遠不足啦 所以癥結就出在這裡啦處理說你們核定的點數太低嘛沒有啦沒有對不對委員你做完議長做清楚"},{"start":181.038,"end":202.945,"text":"不是這樣算啦因為我們還有很多的儲置費裡面都有人力費用啦所以放一個鼻胃管有一個費用啦所以這個護理費是基本的當然我們要調我們連續去年調25億今年還會再調25億所以我們四年會打算調100億都給護理費啦"},{"start":206.004,"end":219.458,"text":"把它調起來啊但是其他的費用在調的時候裡面也包含人力費用啦在ICU最明顯啦ICU會有很多處置裡面都有護理人員執行的費用所以不是把護理費這條啦啊你一個企業裡面有"},{"start":223.263,"end":242.755,"text":"清潔的有電力的有什麼東西都在裡面那個另外一筆是訂房費所以我要跟部長報告就是癥結點就在這裡昨天某一個醫學中心的院長跟我講他們的N1他們一年已經給他86萬"},{"start":245.7,"end":264.437,"text":"年薪啦,這付不去嘛,但是平時也是拿其他地方來賺,你以前的部長,大家都叫人家按來切去,因為你什麼都做過,你夫妻急診直接做,幼稚園直接做到急診,做到什麼什麼公務,你都做了"},{"start":267.076,"end":293.806,"text":"你想知道這個問題是出在哪裡所以你剛剛講的我們很欣慰啦那對於中華民國在第一線執行婦女的工作人員19萬人嘛那領召的30萬人我們對於在第一線執行的人我們都對他們非常的致敬跟最高的謝意啦台灣的健保能夠"},{"start":295.271,"end":310.208,"text":"世界第一名台灣的國民平均壽命能夠一年一年增加最大的貢獻者是護理人員因為一個病人跟護理人員接觸的時間是超過所有醫事人員瞎起來"},{"start":311.574,"end":328.345,"text":"有統計 差不多一個月兩次要跟病人差不多半個月八十個時間都跟護理監管接觸其他的醫師相關的都是很短暫醫師也是占5%到7%的時間所以護理人員是真的是要好好的照顧那這個護病皮 這個是"},{"start":331.738,"end":350.954,"text":"你們也是往這個方向在挪念嘛 對不對雖然沒有入伐我為了跟從要入伐的事情提一個案被罵得要死不然我看人家沒人在美麗耶不錯耶你不錯 你都沒人在美麗耶所以你真的得婦女戒耶 你要得天下耶你講一下我聽你 你講一下你這樣問我也要怎麼講"},{"start":361.227,"end":375.624,"text":"其實跟委員報告確實那個剛剛講的護理費我們在調嘛去年調了25億今年還會再調連四年要一共調100億進來那這次調我們特別去扣合那個薪資的成長"},{"start":376.645,"end":393.747,"text":"所以不是調性去前就進去醫院的口袋啦是一定要搭配那個護理人員的薪資要調升我們會監測那個投保薪資所以我們看起來確實投保薪資去年年中12月跟前一年113年的投保薪資都有增加"},{"start":394.147,"end":414.59,"text":"沒有錯所以不會說我們只把護理費調升結果護理人員都沒有薪資的調整倒是我們很欣慰說大家有在做這方面的努力那我們會持續的來逐年逐年把它調升這個護理費的部分"},{"start":415.325,"end":438.22,"text":"至於偏鄉的部分我們現在是也在爭取公立醫院能夠讓醫護人員在偏鄉加急讓願意留在偏鄉的醫護人員因為多數偏鄉的地方都是公立醫院所以我們公立醫院爭取行政院的預算我知道也有一些醫院"},{"start":438.96,"end":457.997,"text":"是在偏鄉的私立醫院,我們更敬佩所以我們來看看有什麼方式來一起協助你會主動講到偏鄉,我很佩服你三地離島、偏鄉這個真的,我們在做第一線我做第一線重生,我感觸想最深"},{"start":459.338,"end":478.129,"text":"租會區裡面醫院大部分都比較正常租會區裡面的人他們的保險也多個人現金保險也多所以他們對於醫療的給付醫療額外支出他們都沒問題整咖吃飯都沒問題啊 大家說要吃土啊他還有負的錢啊 偏鄉的衣服呢金門就找不到 金門就欠"},{"start":486.223,"end":494.31,"text":"不然你看恆春半島,你如果在那裡不久以後,那點就找不到人了,所以這點最重要"},{"start":496.511,"end":520.498,"text":"剛才說得富你得天下,偏香港搞定了你也可以得天下所以我現在都給你幾點名錄,你要去選都沒問題來,下一張這個春節這個剛剛你也講很多了啦所以我覺得這個錢一定一定一定會回饋給所有的人力"},{"start":521.776,"end":544.221,"text":"錢最好是落到員工的口袋最好啦其他的都不重要現在最重要就是讓他們能夠有實質的回饋那你說80%多回饋給第一線嘛對不對對那這個可以這個很簡單啊你就看幾個三人三人的身份證資料回報回來一審查就知道了嘛那很簡單的啦對"},{"start":545.137,"end":562.058,"text":"健保署什麼都不要,這最厲害啦所以我對這個我一點都不擔心我們現在醫院真的大家都很戰戰兢兢雖然是很辛苦,大家忙很久"},{"start":565.046,"end":569.568,"text":"對醫療院所要聽受啦,對醫務人員要聽受啦,很感謝的,沒有那種鼓勵我告訴你最近,我們屏東某醫院,其實沒有藏人住耶用坐的也坐到年齡,反正是騎在吊墊上用手騎耶,這樣有誇張嗎?藏本不進去耶,所以"},{"start":589.676,"end":600.969,"text":"這個都要持續的關注啦都會區的醫院就好好的合而營造他的環境他就會做得很好了啦好來最後一個我們護睡署"},{"start":605.768,"end":629.703,"text":"我三天前,我找你們署長,我說這說得怎麼樣?補典給我答應,補典跟你們財政部部長答應,說年底要改革,醫生的加班費、值班費,結果現在怎麼樣?陳時中次政委也出來協調,他跟我說,這個案已經上議,行政院院長要回答,有沒有?補典說沒有。"},{"start":638.508,"end":648.42,"text":"我們一直在跟負稅署財政部跟還有人總大家都在討論所以差不多共識差不多了"},{"start":648.86,"end":677.108,"text":"我們應該在這個二月的時候我們就會發一個這個函給財政部來做這個未來這個醫師在加班費的這個認定跟他施用 加班跟施班啦對 加班跟施班 醫生已經十五年不夠新歲了耶我知道 知道十五年都沒頂檔了耶所以現在這個誘人啊 遭料料耶現在這個重症醫師傳播門的醫生都早早一開業"},{"start":678.667,"end":698.423,"text":"我那天有跟負稅署說開業地也要處理,看要怎麼處理但是醫院這邊加班費、值班費,川普總統你看他笑笑,但是他說加班費免稅我覺得這真的不夠大家人,跟他說一戰加班費、值班費還有小費"},{"start":699.824,"end":723.11,"text":"免費 免稅啊所以不然你把人家帶去這樣我這間種族診院我還可以幫你忙喔沒關係 不行不行這樣這個一定要解決啊不然的話越來越嚴重很快會有好消息長庚醫院 亭口長庚五個GS醫師一幫肝臟外科醫師最近三個跑去診所這像話嗎部長這個太嚴重了 好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167318","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167318","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88525043bdec3dfc0f5ca6c4b86dd6b28f9da39f225449bb57dca8d0dceb804b035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"10:42:34 - 10:49:07","影片長度":"00:06:33","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「面對全球經貿變局挑戰，如何協輔僑臺商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:42:34+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:49:07+08:00","duration":393,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.12784375,"end":3.9797187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.519718750000001,"end":5.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.691593750000003,"end":12.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.72096875,"end":15.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.06221875,"end":31.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.26221875,"end":33.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.57846875,"end":33.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.236593750000004,"end":34.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.455968750000004,"end":45.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.11659375,"end":50.672843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.80784375,"end":57.321593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.92909375,"end":62.56971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.77221875,"end":64.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.30346875000001,"end":67.36221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.91909375,"end":72.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.47534375000001,"end":79.00596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.50909375,"end":72.86346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.76534375,"end":80.01846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.60909375,"end":101.56784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.07409375,"end":125.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.67784375000001,"end":128.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.81284375000001,"end":126.82971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.22596875000002,"end":129.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.67284375,"end":134.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.48659375,"end":146.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.13034375,"end":165.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.46221875,"end":156.61409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.28346875,"end":196.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.19846875000002,"end":199.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.56096875,"end":234.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.15721875000003,"end":218.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.61034375000003,"end":239.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.62221875,"end":242.22096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.49096875,"end":265.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.57596875,"end":283.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.02034375,"end":316.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.19471875,"end":302.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.38221875,"end":318.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.71534375000005,"end":391.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.93596875000003,"end":392.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.89346875,"end":394.48409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.181,"end":5.284,"text":"主席麻煩請副委員長請副委員長委員好委員長好那個今委內瑞拉的總統馬杜洛他在月初他是遭到美國逮捕那委內瑞拉的政局是呈現比較不穩的局面"},{"start":25.549,"end":31.291,"text":"那就這一個我們的掌握交易會的掌握目前委內瑞拉有多少台商狀況為何跟委員報告這個委內瑞拉的事情其實全世界都很震驚那這個目前呢根據我們的情報還有我們的訊息我們在當地其實我們的僑胞都是安全的也沒有傳出什麼特別的"},{"start":52.238,"end":78.815,"text":"這個事件發生那我們當然密切的在注意當中那跟駐外單位的聯繫的管道也很暢通那也隨時有最新的訊息的話他們都會回報那啟動這個必要的協助措施那現在在委內瑞拉的台商數目大概是多少啊就你們掌握的狀況是數十數百人還是大概這一個量體是多大"},{"start":80.65,"end":90.375,"text":"跟委員報告當地我們台商的人數其實不多有一些其實沒有跟橋委會定期在做聯繫所以我們就比較不容易能夠第一時間馬上掌握他們的行蹤但是我們透過駐外館還有我們當地的橋台商的駐點我們都跟他們保持密切的聯繫"},{"start":102.099,"end":127.376,"text":"OK好那另外一個部分也是在中南美洲我們的另外一個前邦交國這個宏都拉斯那宏都拉斯現在有進取已經有確認選出新任的總統那這位新任的總統選前也都支持恢復跟台灣的外交關係那就你的掌握宏都拉斯在我們斷交之後還有多少台商在那邊不要現在他們經營的產業違和"},{"start":131.721,"end":134.343,"text":"跟委員報告我們在洪都拉斯的我們在洪都拉斯的橋台商主要是以傳產跟貿易業為主那這個訊息在前兩天的新聞就是洪都拉斯的新任的總統他想要跟台北恢復邦交我們有看到這個新聞但是在這個橋台商界呢我們目前還沒有進一步的訊息"},{"start":156.556,"end":161.204,"text":"那如果說接下來我們的橋台商在宏都拉斯有任何需要的話我們這邊橋委會的平台都可以隨時來替他們聯繫"},{"start":166.634,"end":190.214,"text":"台湾跟宏都纳斯过去最大的贸易是水产的白虾那当然2023年他们跟我们断交之后他们的这一个产量总是因为中国的这种虚假的这一个承诺那导致他们出口是骤减那甚至会影响到他们的升级那我们是认为说未来这几年那如果我们台湾"},{"start":190.854,"end":206.536,"text":"跟宏都拉斯會恢復關係之後那我們希望經營相關產業的台商能夠獲得這一個交易會的這種資訊上面的提供資訊上面的提供或者是其他接洽交流那來去"},{"start":207.037,"end":233.525,"text":"准备好应对未来的外交上可能会遇到的这个变动那当然我们现在是非常希望积极的能够跟宏都拉斯能够有进一步的伙伴关系那这一部分不管是传产还是这些水产我们都希望说能够尽快的来协助他们让我们的台商能够在这边能够有更好的机会那再来就是针对乔屋电子报的成效那"},{"start":234.656,"end":238.587,"text":"我看橋尾會都會透過各種媒介來提供給小五的訊息"},{"start":239.673,"end":264.966,"text":"那我们在看乔乌电子报的时候107年到10年他的网网路的访客平均是有逐年上升的这点是好的但是这个我们来看到如果只是看数字的话当然就有上升可是如果你看绝对数字的话有一些活动他的影片经过数个月有些时候是数十人就是观看人次"},{"start":265.726,"end":283.156,"text":"那对于这种不管是侨物探索云侨生求职的分享侨物工作的分享那你们有什么样的计划或怎么样的策略让有更多的这一个相关的人士关心的人士能够有机会去接触到你们的这些管道"},{"start":284.076,"end":290.72,"text":"好 謝謝委員的關心那也跟委員利用這個機會報告其實對於全球的橋台商 橋民 橋社來說這個橋委會對外的資訊傳播平台是非常非常的重要那這個橋委會對海外的傳播資訊的平台從最早期的宏觀電視一直到現在橋屋電子報那跟委員報告的是現在還有很多新興的媒體所以除了橋屋電子報之外我們在四大社群平台分別是Facebook Instagram"},{"start":315.077,"end":328.906,"text":"X還有這個還有一個是LINE我們都建立了社群的組織那在YouTube上面也有我們的影片的帳號的平台那我們就是希望說透過新興的網路的傳播媒體來結合那僑物電子報今年呢我們也有計劃要把它改版那跟委員報告的是您看到的數字可能是在這個"},{"start":339.713,"end":342.595,"text":"COVID的期間因為COVID的期間我們有一段時間海外的業務推展相當的不容易所以那段時間我們的這個執行率有所降低但是那個執行率的降低其實不是僑委會本身的業務而是我們委外的一些傳媒的相關業務那這是在發生在這個111年的時候"},{"start":361.147,"end":366.291,"text":"那經過COVID之後呢這幾年我們的執行率還有我們的宣傳的效益其實都一直在提升那我們也不斷的希望能夠精進我們對海外的宣傳的管道那譬如說透過社群那譬如說透過一些LINE的後台來強化對於橋台商的聯繫跟組織那希望以後這些網路的通訊媒體跟新興科技能夠發揮更大的功能來協助我們在第一時間"},{"start":388.187,"end":389.087,"text":"給這個海外的橋台商 橋民 僑胞們最新的訊息好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167327","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167327","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a886c843c8269d02a736bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b75a5986f83a3d5885ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡其昌","委員發言時間":"10:34:27 - 10:47:36","影片長度":"00:13:09","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:34:27+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:47:36+08:00","duration":789,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.77346875,"end":6.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.32534375,"end":7.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.851593750000003,"end":15.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.977843750000002,"end":16.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.61909375,"end":21.614093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.25534375,"end":27.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.92534375,"end":30.355343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.047218750000003,"end":37.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.252843750000004,"end":41.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.087843750000005,"end":44.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.83409375,"end":52.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.96409375,"end":50.031593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.031593750000006,"end":50.065343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.065343750000004,"end":50.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.23784375,"end":56.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.62971875,"end":57.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.87846875,"end":60.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.73034375,"end":61.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.299718750000004,"end":63.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.430343750000006,"end":63.953468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.05471875,"end":70.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.88909375,"end":72.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.03221875,"end":74.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.60159375,"end":75.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.88409375,"end":76.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.64346875000001,"end":78.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.37721875000001,"end":82.12784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.88721875,"end":87.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.10159375,"end":91.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.83096875000001,"end":92.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.91096875000001,"end":96.08346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.69096875000001,"end":98.37846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.45846875000001,"end":100.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.82534375,"end":106.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.88346875,"end":110.98409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.67596875000001,"end":113.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.20721875000001,"end":116.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.51471875000001,"end":118.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.25721875,"end":121.12596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.41284375000001,"end":123.92721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.18034375,"end":126.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.03221875000001,"end":132.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.42346875,"end":134.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.62159375000002,"end":137.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.98409375,"end":141.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.57409375,"end":145.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.91534375,"end":147.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.61534375000002,"end":154.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.47096875,"end":161.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.33909375000002,"end":165.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.33409375000002,"end":169.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.20284375,"end":172.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.96596875,"end":173.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.38346875000002,"end":177.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.01159375,"end":179.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.47534375,"end":182.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.46659375000002,"end":185.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.87534375,"end":186.53346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.95534375000003,"end":189.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.80721875,"end":192.49034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.09784375,"end":194.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.52784375000002,"end":197.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.66659375,"end":200.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.96159375000002,"end":201.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.10909375,"end":204.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.67409375000003,"end":211.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.03159375,"end":215.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.13221875000002,"end":216.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.53284375,"end":218.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.03471875000002,"end":223.64159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.23221875000002,"end":228.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.24409375000002,"end":233.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.93534375000002,"end":237.12471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.46221875,"end":239.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.17909375000002,"end":242.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.38971875000001,"end":246.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.65909375,"end":251.08034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.95784375000002,"end":254.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.51846875,"end":258.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.89346875,"end":260.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.19284375,"end":264.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.61409375,"end":267.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.24221875,"end":273.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.16534375000003,"end":275.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.44346875,"end":278.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.82284375,"end":288.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.62721875,"end":295.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.66409375,"end":301.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.19471875,"end":307.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.28659375,"end":311.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.98221875,"end":319.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.71096875,"end":323.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.99721875,"end":324.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.41471875,"end":329.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.56159375000004,"end":332.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.27846875,"end":335.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.91096875,"end":339.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.43784375,"end":353.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.49034375,"end":357.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.59534375000004,"end":359.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.22784375000003,"end":367.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.19284375,"end":370.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.63534375,"end":377.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.11534375,"end":378.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.12346875000003,"end":380.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.14034375,"end":380.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.37659375000004,"end":380.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.44409375000004,"end":381.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.31721875000005,"end":403.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.05659375000005,"end":408.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.96346875,"end":405.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.13221875000005,"end":405.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.72659375,"end":408.86159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.96284375000005,"end":415.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.03346875000005,"end":418.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.56471875000005,"end":421.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.29409375,"end":428.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.09471875,"end":434.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.47346875000005,"end":436.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.49846875000003,"end":441.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.00409375000004,"end":442.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.84346875000006,"end":444.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.95721875000004,"end":445.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.23971875,"end":447.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.92721875,"end":449.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.17159375000006,"end":452.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.20471875000004,"end":456.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.61346875000004,"end":463.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.67596875000004,"end":463.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.89096875,"end":469.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.25284375,"end":472.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.52659375,"end":474.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.63596875,"end":476.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.74971875000006,"end":486.06471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.52034375000005,"end":489.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.64221875000004,"end":496.57784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.20221875000004,"end":509.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.93846875,"end":511.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.83284375000005,"end":514.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.1740937500001,"end":515.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.49034375,"end":517.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.9922187500001,"end":521.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.8059687500001,"end":524.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.9953437500001,"end":526.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":526.24409375,"end":536.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.63534375,"end":534.8840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.2847187500001,"end":546.5615937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.59534375,"end":549.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.3078437500001,"end":553.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.22284375,"end":560.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":554.3915937500001,"end":554.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":562.52534375,"end":576.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":576.68346875,"end":582.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.93159375,"end":586.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.85909375,"end":587.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.4115937500001,"end":589.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.02721875,"end":600.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.6584687500001,"end":602.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.44721875,"end":605.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.7253437500001,"end":607.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.1047187500001,"end":609.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.89346875,"end":613.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.1965937500001,"end":614.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.78721875,"end":615.1584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.66471875,"end":616.1709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.0147187499999,"end":624.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.96284375,"end":627.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.3547187500001,"end":634.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.8178437500001,"end":636.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.72034375,"end":646.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.01846875,"end":661.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.4253437500001,"end":680.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.91596875,"end":684.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":684.8859687500001,"end":686.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.38346875,"end":687.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.8178437500001,"end":692.7834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.59346875,"end":695.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.3315937500001,"end":699.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.76534375,"end":701.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":701.9297187500001,"end":702.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":703.3303437500001,"end":704.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.5790937500001,"end":708.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.2703437499999,"end":713.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.4553437500001,"end":714.4678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.1259687500001,"end":719.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.01971875,"end":721.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.80846875,"end":722.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.5972187500001,"end":724.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.33534375,"end":728.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.60909375,"end":731.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":732.92909375,"end":735.0890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":735.4097187500001,"end":746.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":739.54409375,"end":739.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.3490937500001,"end":751.9978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":746.1928437500001,"end":746.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":752.5209687500001,"end":755.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.2165937500001,"end":760.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.1440937500001,"end":778.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":778.64346875,"end":781.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":781.7822187500001,"end":786.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":785.1909687500001,"end":788.9709687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.476,"end":7.52,"text":"謝謝主席請交通部陳部長 觀光署陳署長陳部長 陳署長委員部長早 署長早"},{"start":16.895,"end":36.365,"text":"今天這個主席安排了發展觀光條例的修法針對發展觀光條例本席有幾條條文要來進行這些修正那因為這個條文我本席今天就不講但是我講的跟這個條文多多少少有一點關係"},{"start":38.869,"end":51.726,"text":"我們都知道這個觀光對台灣的觀光而言這個不管是觀光的數字這個觀光產業的榮枯其實跟兩條軸線很大的關係一條就是英鎊 一條就是歐鎊"},{"start":53.308,"end":73.16,"text":"那看起來澳邦的部分就是在服務澳邦的這些旅行社等等看起來應該是狀況不差因為我們可以看得到包括從韓國的統計數據從日本的統計數字來看台灣人都變成人家的這個財神爺了"},{"start":74.776,"end":98.184,"text":"所以對我們的出國的旅客而言其實我們的狀態其實是相當不錯的但是反過來來台灣的旅客看起來狀況還有很大的努力空間那當然在台灣的旅行而言除了外國人來之外國旅也是很重要的一個部分"},{"start":99.502,"end":126.296,"text":"那其實這個是老生常談這個在交通委員會這麼長的時間我想每一個階段我們的國旅都面臨不同的挑戰那也曾經好過但現在此刻的狀態看起來是不好那這個不好呢其實我沒有辦法給你標準答案但我覺得觀光研訓院要成立之後我認為觀光研訓院應該給大家答案"},{"start":127.096,"end":147.575,"text":"什麼意思呢 譬如說現在我認為很不利的你在所有的社群平台上你都可以去發現這個有錢人出國有錢人留在台灣 窮人出國那這個意思就是要告訴大家說國旅是比出國更貴的旅行"},{"start":148.683,"end":173.246,"text":"那這個已經是既定印象你只要看在社群平台上你只要PO這種文的下面大概都留言量那一則的PO文流量都特別的大那下面的PO文都可以看出來大家看起來多數是同意這種說法所以這個其實是一個既定的刻板印象而且這個刻板印象對國旅是非常不利的所以"},{"start":174.414,"end":203.883,"text":"交通部或觀光署要怎麼去扭轉這個刻板印象我認為這個其實是很關鍵的那這個刻板印象源自於哪裡源自於大家會覺得譬如說國旅的飯店國旅的這個旅宿很貴那更源頭可能從墾丁開始更源頭可能從墾丁開始那這個就是過去本席一直在提到對於觀光飯店有貴有中價位也有便宜"},{"start":204.741,"end":223.343,"text":"可是大家會普遍沒有特別在數據上做管理的印象也就是只要網路有人PO一張很個案型的照片 個案的案例說你看 食物這個一點點什麼東西 夜市買來的什麼東西就要多少錢"},{"start":224.801,"end":250.862,"text":"拍了一張房間的照片然後就告訴大家你看我花了多少錢然後下面就一大堆留言說你這個錢我已經可以去Okinawa我已經可以去日本了其實就這樣 那個案我不是說PO的人不對啦我的意思只是告訴你們說或許那一個PO的人是對的他也無心要打擊誰只是作為一個消費者他覺得這樣很貴可是這個一個個案就會變成久而久之就會變成普遍的現象"},{"start":251.994,"end":275.202,"text":"那觀光署的重點在哪裡當然啦 有人賣得很貴然後貴跟便宜又有個人感受的問題又有他其他周邊服務到底含不含瓜在這個價格裡面可是久而久之大家就會普遍覺得都是這麼貴所以什麼叫數字管理就是資料的收集對觀光署而言到底每一個"},{"start":276.716,"end":287.706,"text":"國旅重點時刻到來每一個地區它的訂房狀況中價位 價位到哪裡高價位 價位到哪裡低價位 平均房價到底在哪裡"},{"start":288.723,"end":310.864,"text":"其實這個對消費者而言就是最好去對抗個案因為統計數據我們不會有啊而且對觀光署而言或許你也不夠及時啊你或許自己也對這個資訊的掌握也不足啊所以我只是提供一個就以科學的數據統計數據來面對我們國旅很多的消費者的個案"},{"start":312.285,"end":332.193,"text":"這樣才有辦法跟大家跟社會說明你不說明長期一個個案一個個案累積最後就約定署程最後就形成刻板印象最後就是告訴大家有錢的人才能留在台灣國旅窮人最好出國因為出國比較便宜但事實上出國真的比較便宜嗎"},{"start":333.716,"end":359.488,"text":"這個也要看地區 看時間要看他要求的服務品質來論斷所以我想全世界都是如此台灣有台灣的好 國外有國外的好這個沒有辦法 蘋果跟橘子是沒有辦法放在同一個天平來比較但為什麼會被台灣的國旅會變成被污名化這麼嚴重我覺得這個是觀光署真的要認真去思考那接下來你又有光源訓練院的成立"},{"start":360.31,"end":381.369,"text":"所以公園心願對於這樣的問題到底要怎麼解方是什麼我提的只有一個你這數字的公佈就客觀數字的統計公佈讓大家的預期可以怎麼去處理他接下來的旅行到底要出國還是要留在台灣這個可控部長跟署長你們覺得呢"},{"start":382.606,"end":407.569,"text":"報告員您剛剛的那個建議我剛剛也跟署長講您上一頁的那個建議應該要把它拿下來好好來討論一下真的是應該各種數據都讓民眾能夠接觸的到能夠理解的到這個是比較持平的方式才不會大家用刻板的印象去對國旅有不好的一些想法所以部長你是支持所以我們應該集結不只是我建議這一項"},{"start":409.15,"end":436.127,"text":"在署裡面有那麼多的優秀的文官你們應該要認真去思考面對到底國旅是什麼因為不能只在知緯末節啦這個補助一下那個辦個活動 放個煙火其實這個在結構上我覺得現在國旅是很不利的那個刻板印象是非常深刻強烈的那第二個啊像我都覺得像署長你曉得齁我看了一個東西我就覺得很有趣啦齁"},{"start":437.557,"end":455.767,"text":"我們的環境部在推綠色旅遊網頁你有看到這個環境部的這個活動嗎你曉得這個活動嗎 觀光署曉得嗎署長或者其他同仁曉得嗎環境部有在推綠色旅遊網頁"},{"start":457.859,"end":474.149,"text":"我們跟環境部一直有保持跟綠色旅遊的這塊的一些合作跟聯繫一直都有好 那其實如果這分兩個層次現在看起來觀光署是知道的那我的意思就是說觀光署竟然知道觀光署對於"},{"start":476.023,"end":495.18,"text":"環保標章的環境部認證環保標章旅行社有26家嘛其實占比很低啦連1%都不到只有0.6而已那它裡面去區分嘛它列了一些條件然後列了一些旅行該具備什麼什麼然後給你什麼叫做金級銀級銅級這樣加起來總共只有26家"},{"start":497.284,"end":523.362,"text":"那如果大家因為我看到了新的修法也提到行政院也提到叫永續觀光環境部現在在做的透過環保標章的旅行社推這個綠色旅遊觀光署你們覺得這件事情讓環境部在推綠色旅遊你覺得這個合理嗎或者說這個認證你們要不要跟環境部好好討論一下這個認證是什麼"},{"start":525.049,"end":553.758,"text":"跟委員報告委員觀察的確實是事實但是現在其實不是只有環境部在推綠色旅遊各部會都在推綠色旅遊因為就是現在的顯學那署長那我作為一個旅行社或者觀光飯店那我到底要申跟你中華民國政府申請多少的認證標章因為你說各部會都在推嘛所以我環境部要申請一次我觀光署要申請一次我不知道還有其他哪一個部也在推啦"},{"start":554.358,"end":560.228,"text":"那我到底我要怎麼證明我是國家認證我是永續旅遊綠色旅遊或者什麼旅遊"},{"start":562.737,"end":588.996,"text":"這件事情現在也是我們跟環境部正在溝通的地方我們能推的是綠色旅遊但是呢 標章這件事情我們建議還是由環境部來處理大家才有一致的標準那現在 觀光署因為推的還是郵程嘛所以我們會再去集合一下各部會再推有關綠色旅遊的這個項目再集中起來好啦 我的意思就是說你們 觀光署 我講在交通委員會二十年來 太多的認證"},{"start":591.069,"end":615.905,"text":"太多的認證每一次認證一大堆的認證鼓勵業者來申請申請完之後他在市場上到底能不能創造現金流其實我都高度懷疑就像搞這個律師認證你看只有26家26家認證佔比0.6%在旅行社的佔比0.6%那好就算"},{"start":617.059,"end":636.65,"text":"我第一個問題是政府要不要統合不要讓大家到處在申請認證第二個 好 我申請認證完之後認證跟不認證到底有什麼差異業者很辛苦 經營很辛苦了國旅都已經這麼差了我還要花錢去認證認證完之後還接不到生意"},{"start":637.799,"end":661.321,"text":"所以當我們要辦一個認證第一個先整合你們先談好誰要來做這個認證第二個誰要來做這個行銷就是你要讓大家區隔說我很認真在推永續推綠色然後過了之後只要拿到認證於是乎我會吸引一大票的人讓大家知道我就是全台灣最綠色或者最永續的旅行社"},{"start":662.469,"end":687.605,"text":"你如果不做這個他只是又多一個認證標章又擾民 又讓業者要申請申請太少 公安署又沒有面子所以要趕快去督促大家趕快來申請不然我再編一個預算認證什麼補助什麼補助然後認證完之後其實也找不到生意署長 你懂我的意思啦部長 懂我的意思所以第一個 先做好整合第二個"},{"start":688.888,"end":710.155,"text":"把認證後面的整個行銷的規劃一併做好這樣不就不讓大家說你講故事大家又推什麼認證我就覺得很煩了啦業者都覺得很煩好不好最後一個啊部長那個我們持續在委員會裡面爭取台中機場的這個新的航線那我們很謝謝這個我們很謝謝這個星宇嘛在"},{"start":715.929,"end":735.042,"text":"這個夏季的航班裡面又多了這個東京跟熊本東京跟熊本那今年本期要推動建議的那麼多的新的航點還有沒有可能有其他的點因為時間很有限來簡單回答我就好"},{"start":735.878,"end":750.843,"text":"今年因為夏季班表冬季夏季班表3月剛剛委員講到這個那當然之前我們也再持續看看日本的部分還有沒有再新增的可能機會 現在機會很大你知道嗎中國因為不飛了 那個機場啊"},{"start":752.763,"end":779.925,"text":"運量就會下來下來就剛好台灣補進去這個時候不搶 機會很難東京每一個點都那麼熱那其實不只東京像東南亞也是像台中很多希望飛曼谷或者是像比較遠一點像雜黃 北海道這些其實都可以考慮 好不好那另外那個華信不要忘記你們答應我了 華信新的飛機華航撥過來之後要有一台來飛台中的"},{"start":780.426,"end":784.277,"text":"到時候要飛哪裡我們再商量一下再一看市場的需求"}]}},{"id":"17241","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17241","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302ddd600d02e1221ac870727f43dd4a521b7e692bdb9a1e47977d193bd57ea61aa105ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-29","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-29T08:33:56+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T12:12:00+08:00","duration":13084,"影片長度":"03:38:04","委員發言時間":"08:33:56 - 12:12:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1605.8053437500002,"end":1612.2178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1612.6565937500002,"end":1615.0359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1615.69409375,"end":1628.6709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1629.17721875,"end":1642.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1642.4409687500001,"end":1651.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1651.8572187500001,"end":1655.7215937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1656.75096875,"end":1660.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1660.56471875,"end":1673.4572187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1673.5753437500002,"end":1678.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1678.82346875,"end":1698.4659687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1706.93721875,"end":1709.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1710.90284375,"end":1714.0415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1714.95284375,"end":1717.0284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1717.8553437500002,"end":1719.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1721.9390937500002,"end":1723.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1728.5709687500002,"end":1730.6972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1731.3384687500002,"end":1733.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1735.1690937500002,"end":1737.9872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1741.0753437500002,"end":1744.1634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1746.45846875,"end":1748.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1750.5759687500001,"end":1752.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1754.76096875,"end":1756.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1758.5915937500001,"end":1761.0047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1762.48971875,"end":1763.2828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1763.8397187500002,"end":1765.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1766.59034375,"end":1768.6322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1770.8765937500002,"end":1773.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1775.1290937500003,"end":1777.1034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1777.4747187500002,"end":1778.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1780.4784687500003,"end":1782.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1784.5453437500003,"end":1786.7897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1788.7640937500003,"end":1791.3797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1791.7847187500001,"end":1792.9322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1793.2190937500002,"end":1794.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1798.8384687500002,"end":1802.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1803.9347187500002,"end":1803.9515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1803.9515937500003,"end":1803.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1803.9684687500003,"end":1804.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1804.4409687500001,"end":1804.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1804.96409375,"end":1806.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1807.3265937500003,"end":1811.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1813.3678437500002,"end":1816.9790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1821.2315937500002,"end":1828.0997187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1830.85034375,"end":1835.0015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1836.2840937500002,"end":1838.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1840.26659375,"end":1843.4390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1845.2447187500002,"end":1847.2190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1849.1765937500002,"end":1852.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1852.6190937500003,"end":1854.1209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1857.4622187500001,"end":1859.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1859.95971875,"end":1861.7484687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1864.4822187500001,"end":1868.0428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1868.2284687500003,"end":1869.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1873.0040937500003,"end":1873.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1874.43846875,"end":1879.0115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1882.4372187500003,"end":1885.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1885.5928437500002,"end":1887.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1888.64721875,"end":1890.0984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1890.2672187500002,"end":1892.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1895.66721875,"end":1926.3965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1928.72534375,"end":1932.2015937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1934.1253437500002,"end":1936.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1946.3934687500002,"end":1975.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1975.3340937500002,"end":2004.0047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2004.4940937500003,"end":2010.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2011.0753437500002,"end":2045.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2045.2809687500003,"end":2054.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2054.54534375,"end":2056.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2056.6715937500003,"end":2105.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2105.59221875,"end":2116.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2116.9490937500004,"end":2119.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2120.0203437500004,"end":2137.8572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2138.14409375,"end":2163.4734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2163.79409375,"end":2166.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2166.74721875,"end":2178.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2180.26409375,"end":2184.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2196.10971875,"end":2238.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2238.65159375,"end":2254.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2254.6659687500005,"end":2305.2909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2305.30784375,"end":2330.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2333.23596875,"end":2341.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2351.6803437500002,"end":2376.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2377.4147187500002,"end":2380.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2380.7559687500006,"end":2398.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2399.0653437500005,"end":2399.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2400.22971875,"end":2407.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2408.92034375,"end":2415.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2415.65346875,"end":2416.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2417.1384687500004,"end":2421.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2422.84221875,"end":2429.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2430.06471875,"end":2434.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2434.8065937500005,"end":2441.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2442.1472187500003,"end":2443.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2444.40846875,"end":2445.2859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2445.50534375,"end":2449.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2450.38221875,"end":2453.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2453.3522187500002,"end":2465.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2466.29534375,"end":2483.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2484.0478437500005,"end":2488.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2488.48596875,"end":2502.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2502.69471875,"end":2504.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2515.09784375,"end":2519.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2520.29534375,"end":2524.6153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2524.9022187500004,"end":2526.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2526.57284375,"end":2527.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2528.3278437500003,"end":2534.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2534.9765937500006,"end":2537.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2537.47409375,"end":2540.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2540.73096875,"end":2542.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2542.90784375,"end":2545.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2546.28284375,"end":2549.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2549.7253437500003,"end":2556.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2556.5934687500003,"end":2560.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2560.35659375,"end":2561.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2561.6559687500003,"end":2562.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2562.53346875,"end":2568.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2568.69284375,"end":2578.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2579.2059687500005,"end":2585.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2585.63534375,"end":2586.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2587.13721875,"end":2606.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2606.7965937500003,"end":2612.4159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2612.75346875,"end":2614.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2614.8797187500004,"end":2617.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2617.6640937500006,"end":2624.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2625.4434687500006,"end":2627.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2627.99159375,"end":2634.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2634.6403437500003,"end":2636.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2636.8172187500004,"end":2639.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2639.85471875,"end":2642.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2643.31409375,"end":2649.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2649.5915937500004,"end":2655.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2655.46409375,"end":2663.6315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2663.9353437500004,"end":2672.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2672.59221875,"end":2674.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2675.05596875,"end":2681.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2681.9747187500006,"end":2685.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2686.15971875,"end":2689.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2689.75409375,"end":2691.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2691.4922187500006,"end":2696.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2698.37721875,"end":2704.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2704.53659375,"end":2718.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2719.2684687500005,"end":2724.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2725.15784375,"end":2726.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2726.2040937500005,"end":2729.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2729.91659375,"end":2732.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2732.66721875,"end":2736.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2736.24471875,"end":2743.4503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2744.00721875,"end":2748.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2748.7997187500005,"end":2761.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2761.8103437500004,"end":2762.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2763.53159375,"end":2772.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2773.47096875,"end":2775.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2776.1709687500006,"end":2776.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2777.14971875,"end":2777.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2777.75721875,"end":2782.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2783.3428437500006,"end":2787.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2787.83159375,"end":2800.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2801.6522187500004,"end":2803.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2803.32284375,"end":2808.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2809.11096875,"end":2809.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2809.8365937500002,"end":2823.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2823.6572187500005,"end":2836.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2836.4822187500004,"end":2840.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2840.6503437500005,"end":2841.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2841.64596875,"end":2845.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2845.3415937500004,"end":2850.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2851.0284687500007,"end":2853.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2854.0997187500006,"end":2857.7109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2858.1159687500003,"end":2859.5840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2860.0059687500006,"end":2867.8865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2868.03846875,"end":2870.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2870.7215937500005,"end":2874.4678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2875.0078437500006,"end":2878.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2878.53471875,"end":2880.4753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2880.62721875,"end":2883.8672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2884.2890937500006,"end":2887.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2887.19159375,"end":2888.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2889.06471875,"end":2889.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2889.8240937500004,"end":2894.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2895.17346875,"end":2899.1222187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2899.62846875,"end":2901.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2902.02471875,"end":2910.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2910.3778437500005,"end":2913.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2914.5965937500005,"end":2919.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2920.35096875,"end":2922.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2922.93284375,"end":2925.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2925.7340937500003,"end":2932.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2932.8722187500007,"end":2942.5753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2942.84534375,"end":2947.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2947.2665937500005,"end":2961.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2961.45846875,"end":2971.7184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2972.2078437500004,"end":2973.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2974.11471875,"end":2976.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2977.0340937500005,"end":2977.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2978.09721875,"end":2979.2109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2979.41346875,"end":2981.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2981.7928437500004,"end":2991.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2991.6815937500005,"end":2994.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2994.3984687500006,"end":3005.8397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3005.9747187500006,"end":3009.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3009.61971875,"end":3014.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3014.96909375,"end":3015.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3015.64409375,"end":3016.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3016.6228437500004,"end":3020.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3020.9090937500005,"end":3022.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3022.98471875,"end":3030.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3030.57846875,"end":3034.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3034.9659687500007,"end":3042.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3042.0703437500006,"end":3044.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3044.9559687500005,"end":3046.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3047.1834687500004,"end":3054.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3054.5240937500002,"end":3058.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3058.5909687500007,"end":3062.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3062.6240937500006,"end":3063.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3064.51409375,"end":3069.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3069.7115937500002,"end":3071.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3072.41159375,"end":3076.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3076.57971875,"end":3077.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3077.7947187500004,"end":3078.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3078.80721875,"end":3080.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3080.61284375,"end":3082.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3082.48596875,"end":3085.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3085.3378437500005,"end":3086.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3086.3503437500003,"end":3089.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3089.70846875,"end":3092.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3093.87659375,"end":3094.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3094.34909375,"end":3096.9140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3097.5553437500002,"end":3102.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3102.83721875,"end":3108.1697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3108.32159375,"end":3109.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3109.89096875,"end":3112.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3113.6034687500005,"end":3117.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3120.92721875,"end":3129.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3129.6178437500002,"end":3132.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3132.8915937500005,"end":3139.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3140.0128437500007,"end":3141.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3141.3797187500004,"end":3141.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3142.02096875,"end":3158.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3159.25034375,"end":3160.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3160.7184687500003,"end":3169.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3169.4597187500003,"end":3173.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3173.7628437500007,"end":3175.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3175.6865937500006,"end":3186.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3186.9590937500006,"end":3192.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3193.2197187500005,"end":3197.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3198.2315937500007,"end":3203.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3204.3065937500005,"end":3209.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3209.6222187500007,"end":3211.7315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3213.19971875,"end":3220.3378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3220.8947187500007,"end":3231.8634687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3231.9647187500004,"end":3233.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3233.6522187500004,"end":3240.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3241.4147187500002,"end":3241.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3242.1065937500007,"end":3244.7897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3245.14409375,"end":3249.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3249.78471875,"end":3250.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3250.8309687500005,"end":3265.1240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3265.5965937500005,"end":3269.1065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3269.5622187500003,"end":3274.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3275.2997187500005,"end":3279.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3279.97409375,"end":3286.4034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3286.77471875,"end":3295.6847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3296.12346875,"end":3299.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3300.15659375,"end":3305.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3305.8097187500007,"end":3306.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3307.9528437500003,"end":3309.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3309.9440937500003,"end":3315.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3315.8165937500007,"end":3316.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3316.6434687500005,"end":3318.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3318.3478437500007,"end":3321.8409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3322.3809687500006,"end":3323.9334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3324.1190937500005,"end":3327.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3328.25346875,"end":3333.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3333.8897187500006,"end":3336.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3336.31971875,"end":3338.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3339.22221875,"end":3339.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3340.30221875,"end":3344.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3344.82471875,"end":3345.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3346.5290937500004,"end":3346.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3348.08159375,"end":3352.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3352.90784375,"end":3355.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3356.2997187500005,"end":3360.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3361.0078437500006,"end":3361.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3361.5309687500003,"end":3363.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3363.8428437500006,"end":3366.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3366.5597187500007,"end":3369.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3369.9684687500003,"end":3370.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3370.8965937500006,"end":3374.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3374.76096875,"end":3375.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3376.6003437500003,"end":3377.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3377.3259687500004,"end":3385.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3385.4597187500003,"end":3389.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3389.52659375,"end":3394.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3395.92221875,"end":3399.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3406.77284375,"end":3463.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3464.26596875,"end":3465.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3466.0378437500003,"end":3468.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3468.8728437500004,"end":3477.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3477.29346875,"end":3484.7184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3485.1572187500005,"end":3502.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3502.90971875,"end":3511.6678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3512.00534375,"end":3514.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3514.35096875,"end":3517.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3518.26596875,"end":3521.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3521.99534375,"end":3523.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3524.05409375,"end":3537.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3537.50346875,"end":3546.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3546.97034375,"end":3550.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3550.4297187500006,"end":3553.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3554.00721875,"end":3556.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3556.9772187500002,"end":3561.3478437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3562.3097187500007,"end":3580.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3588.41534375,"end":3589.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3590.54159375,"end":3591.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3592.33034375,"end":3593.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3594.4228437500005,"end":3595.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3597.1397187500006,"end":3599.0128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3599.5359687500004,"end":3601.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3602.0672187500004,"end":3604.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3605.1384687500004,"end":3608.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3608.9353437500004,"end":3609.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3609.6778437500006,"end":3611.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3611.93909375,"end":3613.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3614.58846875,"end":3616.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3616.9678437500006,"end":3618.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3618.8409687500007,"end":3620.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3621.01784375,"end":3625.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3640.0528437500006,"end":3646.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3646.02659375,"end":3647.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3653.2997187500005,"end":3655.5440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3655.9659687500007,"end":3667.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3667.74471875,"end":3670.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3671.0690937500003,"end":3675.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3675.3047187500006,"end":3701.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3689.19284375,"end":3689.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3701.73096875,"end":3719.9728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3720.6815937500005,"end":3721.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3722.04846875,"end":3723.2128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3723.90471875,"end":3725.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3726.0984687500004,"end":3729.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3727.0772187500006,"end":3744.0703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3738.1134687500007,"end":3740.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3744.64409375,"end":3751.6134687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3751.9678437500006,"end":3753.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3753.6047187500008,"end":3756.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3756.8953437500004,"end":3766.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3767.00346875,"end":3767.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3767.0372187500006,"end":3767.7459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3767.7459687500004,"end":3767.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3767.7628437500007,"end":3767.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3768.03284375,"end":3780.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3779.94659375,"end":3781.2628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3781.7859687500004,"end":3782.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3781.7859687500004,"end":3783.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3783.5240937500002,"end":3783.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3783.64221875,"end":3792.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3783.69284375,"end":3786.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3792.0290937500004,"end":3811.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3795.2353437500005,"end":3795.4040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3805.0565937500005,"end":3805.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3811.9753437500003,"end":3814.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3814.8947187500007,"end":3823.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3814.97909375,"end":3816.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3823.0284687500007,"end":3832.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3827.44971875,"end":3827.5509687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3832.3097187500007,"end":3853.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3833.40659375,"end":3834.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3842.87346875,"end":3842.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3842.8903437500003,"end":3844.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3853.1334687500002,"end":3871.1222187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3872.03346875,"end":3878.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3878.26034375,"end":3896.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3896.02971875,"end":3896.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3896.09721875,"end":3896.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3896.1647187500002,"end":3896.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3896.82284375,"end":3896.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3896.8565937500007,"end":3901.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3902.3915937500005,"end":3904.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3903.45471875,"end":3916.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3914.94659375,"end":3922.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3922.72596875,"end":3923.7384687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3922.7597187500005,"end":3923.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3924.0084687500002,"end":3932.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3927.0459687500006,"end":3927.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3932.9522187500006,"end":3934.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3934.36971875,"end":3941.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3942.0984687500004,"end":3963.4453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3964.06971875,"end":3972.1697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3973.2665937500005,"end":3979.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3979.9490937500004,"end":3980.9953437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3981.48471875,"end":3984.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3985.2478437500004,"end":3986.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3986.2772187500004,"end":3988.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3988.8084687500004,"end":3990.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3988.84221875,"end":3989.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3990.4453437500006,"end":3995.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3995.3053437500002,"end":4003.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4003.6247187500003,"end":4006.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4006.5440937500007,"end":4007.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4008.2315937500007,"end":4010.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4011.15096875,"end":4014.0197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4013.42909375,"end":4015.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4016.09534375,"end":4016.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4016.14596875,"end":4016.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4016.44971875,"end":4017.2597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4016.4834687500006,"end":4016.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4017.7490937500006,"end":4027.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4027.28346875,"end":4028.5828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4028.98784375,"end":4031.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4031.6203437500008,"end":4036.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4037.5265937500008,"end":4038.7922187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4039.3322187500007,"end":4050.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4043.50034375,"end":4045.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4047.60096875,"end":4079.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4059.34596875,"end":4059.3797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4079.6972187500005,"end":4098.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4093.5515937500004,"end":4145.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4128.58409375,"end":4128.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4128.61784375,"end":4128.972218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4128.972218749999,"end":4129.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4129.84971875,"end":4129.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4146.319718750001,"end":4150.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4151.5340937500005,"end":4151.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4153.120343750001,"end":4160.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4161.827843749999,"end":4162.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4163.26221875,"end":4164.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4164.66284375,"end":4165.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4166.198468750001,"end":4170.923468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4171.0584687499995,"end":4173.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4175.04096875,"end":4182.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4183.24221875,"end":4189.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4190.1103437500005,"end":4193.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4194.3290937500005,"end":4200.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4200.555968750001,"end":4203.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4205.82096875,"end":4206.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4209.921593749999,"end":4211.237843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4210.37721875,"end":4211.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4211.30534375,"end":4212.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4211.9803437499995,"end":4216.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4215.372218750001,"end":4216.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4216.65471875,"end":4216.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4216.75596875,"end":4216.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4216.78971875,"end":4216.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4217.565968749999,"end":4221.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4219.962218750001,"end":4222.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4223.74221875,"end":4225.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4224.366593750001,"end":4230.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4232.888468749999,"end":4235.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4236.0272187499995,"end":4236.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4236.077843749999,"end":4245.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4245.52784375,"end":4258.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4260.462218750001,"end":4267.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4261.18784375,"end":4262.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4266.33471875,"end":4267.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4269.405968749999,"end":4269.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4269.4228437500005,"end":4269.456593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4269.456593749999,"end":4269.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4269.827843749999,"end":4269.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4269.86159375,"end":4285.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4285.74096875,"end":4286.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4287.3778437500005,"end":4293.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4293.99284375,"end":4296.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4298.430968750001,"end":4303.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4299.325343750001,"end":4299.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4300.202843749999,"end":4300.253468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4300.253468749999,"end":4302.126593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4303.79721875,"end":4312.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4308.6572187500005,"end":4320.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4312.8759687500005,"end":4314.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4317.98909375,"end":4318.157843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4318.157843749999,"end":4318.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4318.208468750001,"end":4318.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4318.27596875,"end":4318.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4318.309718750001,"end":4318.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4318.32659375,"end":4318.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4318.343468749999,"end":4318.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4319.710343750001,"end":4320.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4320.14909375,"end":4320.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4320.604718750001,"end":4320.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4320.655343750001,"end":4320.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4320.67221875,"end":4341.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4320.90846875,"end":4320.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4320.975968750001,"end":4322.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4330.98284375,"end":4331.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4341.749093750001,"end":4343.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4342.60971875,"end":4342.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4344.5165937500005,"end":4349.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4347.90846875,"end":4353.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4352.802218750001,"end":4352.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4352.97096875,"end":4353.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4353.089093750001,"end":4353.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4353.47721875,"end":4355.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4353.91596875,"end":4353.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4353.966593749999,"end":4354.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4354.0340937500005,"end":4354.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4354.4559687500005,"end":4354.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4355.046593749999,"end":4355.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4356.24471875,"end":4367.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4367.26409375,"end":4367.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4367.97284375,"end":4368.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4368.20909375,"end":4368.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4368.225968750001,"end":4368.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4368.29346875,"end":4368.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4368.546593749999,"end":4372.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4368.86721875,"end":4369.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4372.7822187500005,"end":4372.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4372.79909375,"end":4372.815968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4372.866593750001,"end":4377.034718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4372.93409375,"end":4392.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4384.03784375,"end":4384.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4393.437218749999,"end":4394.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4395.19221875,"end":4401.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4399.05659375,"end":4404.220343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4404.89534375,"end":4410.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4405.114718750001,"end":4405.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4406.41409375,"end":4406.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4406.667218750001,"end":4416.454718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4417.0790937500005,"end":4425.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4429.296593749999,"end":4431.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4431.270968750001,"end":4435.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4431.557843750001,"end":4432.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4434.122843749999,"end":4435.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4436.232218749999,"end":4437.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4438.155968749999,"end":4438.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4439.77596875,"end":4443.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4443.91034375,"end":4446.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4446.66096875,"end":4461.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4459.030343750001,"end":4459.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4459.57034375,"end":4465.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4463.8397187499995,"end":4465.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4465.341593749999,"end":4466.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4466.06721875,"end":4466.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4466.08409375,"end":4468.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4466.100968750001,"end":4468.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4468.7840937500005,"end":4469.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4469.03721875,"end":4469.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4469.12159375,"end":4475.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4470.80909375,"end":4470.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4473.05346875,"end":4475.517218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4475.60159375,"end":4475.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4475.888468749999,"end":4485.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4475.939093749999,"end":4476.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4484.41034375,"end":4485.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4486.637843750001,"end":4494.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4486.70534375,"end":4486.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4486.9247187500005,"end":4487.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4487.97096875,"end":4488.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4489.388468749999,"end":4489.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4495.7840937500005,"end":4496.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4497.94409375,"end":4504.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4497.977843750001,"end":4499.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4499.96909375,"end":4500.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4504.79534375,"end":4515.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4516.1522187499995,"end":4518.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4519.9490937499995,"end":4526.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4519.999718749999,"end":4520.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4520.03346875,"end":4520.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4521.11346875,"end":4524.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4524.85971875,"end":4530.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4526.96909375,"end":4527.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4530.02346875,"end":4530.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4530.225968750001,"end":4530.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4530.34409375,"end":4530.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4530.360968749999,"end":4530.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4530.462218750001,"end":4532.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4533.0947187500005,"end":4538.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4538.54534375,"end":4539.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4539.25409375,"end":4540.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4541.31284375,"end":4544.940968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4553.243468750001,"end":4556.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4556.02784375,"end":4557.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4557.86721875,"end":4561.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4561.309718750001,"end":4563.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4569.544718749999,"end":4572.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4572.835343750001,"end":4581.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4582.42034375,"end":4583.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4583.58471875,"end":4584.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4584.68159375,"end":4585.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4586.31846875,"end":4589.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4590.0478437500005,"end":4591.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4592.477843750001,"end":4593.220343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4593.591593749999,"end":4594.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4594.55346875,"end":4596.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4597.18596875,"end":4598.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4599.19409375,"end":4600.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4601.35409375,"end":4602.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4602.5184687500005,"end":4605.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4606.18034375,"end":4606.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4607.59784375,"end":4608.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4609.28534375,"end":4611.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4611.749093750001,"end":4614.550343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4615.2928437499995,"end":4616.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4617.85784375,"end":4618.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4618.78596875,"end":4619.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4620.05159375,"end":4620.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4621.215968750001,"end":4622.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4623.10596875,"end":4624.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4625.012843750001,"end":4625.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4625.9072187500005,"end":4627.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4627.79721875,"end":4629.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4629.53534375,"end":4631.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4631.77971875,"end":4632.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4633.18034375,"end":4635.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4636.47096875,"end":4638.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4638.66471875,"end":4643.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4643.575343750001,"end":4644.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4644.90846875,"end":4649.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4650.34221875,"end":4651.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4651.79346875,"end":4652.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4652.890343749999,"end":4653.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4654.08846875,"end":4655.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4656.2147187499995,"end":4656.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4657.159718749999,"end":4658.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4658.72909375,"end":4659.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4660.18034375,"end":4661.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4662.07034375,"end":4662.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4663.251593749999,"end":4664.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4665.58034375,"end":4668.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4668.415343750001,"end":4670.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4671.33471875,"end":4718.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4716.357218749999,"end":4716.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4717.8759687500005,"end":4721.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4721.68971875,"end":4728.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4728.57471875,"end":4729.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4730.059718750001,"end":4734.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4734.6834687499995,"end":4743.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4743.76221875,"end":4750.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4751.288468750001,"end":4752.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4752.62159375,"end":4753.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4753.83659375,"end":4759.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4759.65846875,"end":4760.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4760.7215937500005,"end":4761.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4762.155968749999,"end":4762.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4763.185343749999,"end":4763.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4764.602843750001,"end":4767.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4768.61909375,"end":4768.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4769.17596875,"end":4772.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4771.116593750001,"end":4772.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4772.145968750001,"end":4775.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4772.68596875,"end":4773.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4775.30159375,"end":4777.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4775.858468750001,"end":4776.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4778.052218750001,"end":4780.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4780.7353437500005,"end":4780.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4780.904093749999,"end":4783.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4783.401593750001,"end":4783.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4783.41846875,"end":4783.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4783.435343749999,"end":4783.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4783.452218750001,"end":4783.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4783.46909375,"end":4783.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4783.485968749999,"end":4783.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4783.5028437500005,"end":4785.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4785.34221875,"end":4785.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4785.561593750001,"end":4785.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4785.983468750001,"end":4787.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4786.776593750001,"end":4794.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4794.62346875,"end":4796.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4796.3447187500005,"end":4807.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4807.9715937500005,"end":4809.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4810.114718750001,"end":4810.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4810.13159375,"end":4818.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4812.224093750001,"end":4813.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4813.70909375,"end":4813.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4820.03721875,"end":4820.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4821.370343750001,"end":4823.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4823.294093750001,"end":4826.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4826.9559687500005,"end":4833.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4835.562218749999,"end":4835.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4836.405968749999,"end":4839.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4839.747218750001,"end":4840.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4841.940968750001,"end":4844.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4844.64096875,"end":4845.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4845.839093750001,"end":4847.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4847.526593750001,"end":4849.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4849.247843749999,"end":4855.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4855.84596875,"end":4856.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4856.36909375,"end":4882.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4872.2147187499995,"end":4872.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4882.390343749999,"end":4885.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4886.11971875,"end":4888.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4889.54534375,"end":4892.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4892.9540937500005,"end":4893.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4894.439093749999,"end":4895.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4895.78909375,"end":4896.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4897.1728437500005,"end":4898.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4899.231593750001,"end":4902.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4902.52221875,"end":4906.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4907.5340937500005,"end":4907.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4908.5634687500005,"end":4910.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4910.470343749999,"end":4911.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4911.61784375,"end":4912.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4913.153468750001,"end":4914.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4915.09409375,"end":4916.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4916.86596875,"end":4920.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4921.28721875,"end":4922.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4922.55284375,"end":4934.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4934.618468750001,"end":4937.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4938.16221875,"end":4941.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4941.503468750001,"end":4944.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4945.857218749999,"end":4960.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4948.23659375,"end":4948.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4961.753468750001,"end":4965.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4965.38159375,"end":4971.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4971.372218750001,"end":4981.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4972.89096875,"end":4972.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4972.94159375,"end":4973.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4973.12721875,"end":4973.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4973.26221875,"end":4974.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4981.9022187499995,"end":4985.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4986.087218750001,"end":4987.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4988.2978437500005,"end":4991.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4991.21721875,"end":4993.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4993.630343750001,"end":4996.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4998.01784375,"end":5002.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5003.097218750001,"end":5003.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5004.700343750001,"end":5004.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5005.307843750001,"end":5005.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5006.45534375,"end":5009.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5009.44221875,"end":5011.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5011.99034375,"end":5013.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5014.8759687500005,"end":5015.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5016.24284375,"end":5017.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5017.79534375,"end":5019.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5020.343468749999,"end":5022.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5022.62159375,"end":5023.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5024.8153437500005,"end":5025.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5026.030343750001,"end":5026.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5027.5322187500005,"end":5028.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5028.932843750001,"end":5034.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5031.58221875,"end":5031.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5031.700343750001,"end":5031.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5034.501593749999,"end":5036.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5036.35784375,"end":5037.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5038.399718750001,"end":5043.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5044.13721875,"end":5045.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5046.0272187499995,"end":5051.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5051.59596875,"end":5065.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5066.564093749999,"end":5067.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5067.374093750001,"end":5069.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5069.78721875,"end":5073.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5070.124718749999,"end":5070.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5074.7147187499995,"end":5075.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5076.2840937500005,"end":5078.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5078.17409375,"end":5079.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5080.165343750001,"end":5081.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5081.059718750001,"end":5082.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5082.966593749999,"end":5083.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5084.097218750001,"end":5085.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5086.05471875,"end":5086.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5087.151593750001,"end":5088.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5088.80534375,"end":5091.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5091.33659375,"end":5100.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5100.58409375,"end":5102.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5102.59221875,"end":5102.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5104.33034375,"end":5116.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5117.290343750001,"end":5117.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5119.14659375,"end":5122.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5122.724093750001,"end":5123.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5123.87159375,"end":5124.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5124.833468750001,"end":5125.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5126.13284375,"end":5126.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5127.044093750001,"end":5128.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5129.001593749999,"end":5129.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5130.503468750001,"end":5148.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5148.81284375,"end":5149.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5149.94346875,"end":5165.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5165.45159375,"end":5167.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5168.202218750001,"end":5179.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5179.89659375,"end":5184.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5185.2459687499995,"end":5189.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5189.31284375,"end":5189.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5189.565968750001,"end":5191.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5191.47284375,"end":5191.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5193.63284375,"end":5196.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5196.231593750001,"end":5200.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5201.22659375,"end":5205.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5210.17034375,"end":5210.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5210.64284375,"end":5210.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5210.96346875,"end":5211.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5211.975968750001,"end":5212.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5212.718468749999,"end":5212.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5212.75221875,"end":5213.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5213.03909375,"end":5214.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5214.49034375,"end":5216.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5217.510968750001,"end":5218.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5219.31659375,"end":5221.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5221.577843749999,"end":5225.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5233.491593750001,"end":5236.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5243.73471875,"end":5244.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5244.57846875,"end":5249.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5249.32034375,"end":5252.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5252.003468750001,"end":5252.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5252.138468749999,"end":5252.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5253.15096875,"end":5255.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5256.087218750001,"end":5257.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5257.60596875,"end":5259.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5260.154093749999,"end":5263.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5263.3603437500005,"end":5263.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5263.47846875,"end":5264.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5263.545968750001,"end":5269.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5265.8915937500005,"end":5274.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5272.47284375,"end":5274.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5274.02534375,"end":5274.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5275.1728437500005,"end":5275.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5275.18971875,"end":5282.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5278.66596875,"end":5279.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5282.91846875,"end":5283.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5283.20534375,"end":5283.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5283.374093750001,"end":5285.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5285.02784375,"end":5286.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5285.888468749999,"end":5285.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5285.905343750001,"end":5291.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5292.30096875,"end":5294.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5294.86596875,"end":5294.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5294.88284375,"end":5296.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5295.15284375,"end":5295.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5295.33846875,"end":5299.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5299.65846875,"end":5299.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5299.69221875,"end":5300.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5300.198468750001,"end":5302.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5302.18971875,"end":5305.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5305.9697187500005,"end":5305.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5306.17221875,"end":5309.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5310.458468750001,"end":5316.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5316.179093750001,"end":5316.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5316.600968750001,"end":5316.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5317.124093750001,"end":5327.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5327.670968750001,"end":5332.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5333.17221875,"end":5345.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5345.794718749999,"end":5356.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5356.679093750001,"end":5359.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5356.864718750001,"end":5356.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5360.27346875,"end":5366.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5366.483468750001,"end":5366.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5366.939093749999,"end":5369.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5366.97284375,"end":5366.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5369.95971875,"end":5374.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5374.718468749999,"end":5376.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5377.80659375,"end":5380.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5381.046593749999,"end":5381.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5381.147843750001,"end":5389.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5392.74096875,"end":5399.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5399.423468749999,"end":5401.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5401.9715937500005,"end":5403.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5404.51971875,"end":5406.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5406.52784375,"end":5413.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5413.83471875,"end":5414.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5414.577218750001,"end":5415.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5418.829718749999,"end":5423.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5424.98909375,"end":5431.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5431.97534375,"end":5437.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5438.53971875,"end":5439.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5440.24409375,"end":5456.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5456.86596875,"end":5458.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5461.5740937499995,"end":5466.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5467.66596875,"end":5472.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5473.167218750001,"end":5481.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5481.790343750001,"end":5490.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5490.936593750001,"end":5493.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5493.6365937499995,"end":5498.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5498.901593750001,"end":5501.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5502.040343750001,"end":5506.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5507.102843750001,"end":5510.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5510.96721875,"end":5511.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5512.84034375,"end":5513.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5514.57846875,"end":5519.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5519.387843750001,"end":5519.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5520.467843750001,"end":5523.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5524.7372187500005,"end":5527.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5527.74096875,"end":5537.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5539.33409375,"end":5540.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5540.83596875,"end":5543.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5543.97471875,"end":5549.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5549.138468749999,"end":5549.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5549.96534375,"end":5551.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5552.513468749999,"end":5553.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5553.86346875,"end":5558.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5558.335343750001,"end":5560.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5560.47846875,"end":5560.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5561.187218749999,"end":5562.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5563.27971875,"end":5564.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5564.427218750001,"end":5565.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5565.72659375,"end":5569.017218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5569.84409375,"end":5573.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5573.7928437499995,"end":5576.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5577.420968750001,"end":5579.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5580.1884687500005,"end":5581.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5582.16284375,"end":5582.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5583.5634687500005,"end":5585.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5585.77409375,"end":5587.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5587.7822187500005,"end":5589.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5589.975968750001,"end":5591.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5592.28784375,"end":5594.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5594.68409375,"end":5599.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5599.74659375,"end":5602.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5605.19721875,"end":5605.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5605.9228437500005,"end":5606.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5606.901593750001,"end":5611.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5611.727843750001,"end":5622.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5619.405968749999,"end":5619.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5622.561593750001,"end":5626.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5627.59034375,"end":5629.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5630.475968750001,"end":5631.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5632.14659375,"end":5632.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5633.294093750001,"end":5635.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5636.83784375,"end":5637.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5637.66471875,"end":5639.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5640.24659375,"end":5640.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5640.8709687499995,"end":5642.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5643.11534375,"end":5646.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5647.300343750001,"end":5650.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5650.84409375,"end":5651.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5652.075968749999,"end":5653.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5653.9490937499995,"end":5656.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5656.817843750001,"end":5658.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5659.484093749999,"end":5663.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5664.52971875,"end":5670.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5670.925343750001,"end":5675.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5676.966593749999,"end":5681.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5681.06721875,"end":5681.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5681.35409375,"end":5686.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5686.60221875,"end":5692.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5693.200343750001,"end":5697.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5698.110968749999,"end":5713.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5713.5009687500005,"end":5715.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5716.33596875,"end":5717.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5718.175343750001,"end":5721.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5721.95534375,"end":5724.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5726.005343750001,"end":5728.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5729.17784375,"end":5736.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5736.53534375,"end":5748.314093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5748.550343750001,"end":5757.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5757.94971875,"end":5759.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5759.31659375,"end":5761.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5761.814093749999,"end":5764.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5764.85159375,"end":5772.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5772.9178437499995,"end":5776.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5776.7147187499995,"end":5780.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5780.612843750001,"end":5783.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5783.430968750001,"end":5785.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5786.198468750001,"end":5787.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5788.22346875,"end":5791.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5791.88534375,"end":5797.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5797.79159375,"end":5798.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5798.82096875,"end":5805.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5806.296593749999,"end":5808.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5809.28346875,"end":5811.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5811.932843750001,"end":5814.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5814.44721875,"end":5839.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5840.26596875,"end":5845.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5845.61534375,"end":5850.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5850.94784375,"end":5854.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5854.120343750001,"end":5855.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5854.7615937499995,"end":5860.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5855.200343750001,"end":5855.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5858.794718749999,"end":5859.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5859.317843750001,"end":5859.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5860.9715937500005,"end":5862.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5863.75596875,"end":5864.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5874.91034375,"end":5876.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5882.892218750001,"end":5886.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5886.95909375,"end":5886.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5886.975968750001,"end":5887.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5886.99284375,"end":5890.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5889.692843750001,"end":5891.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5895.63284375,"end":5906.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5895.970343750001,"end":5896.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5896.915343750001,"end":5896.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5896.93221875,"end":5897.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5897.35409375,"end":5897.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5900.796593749999,"end":5901.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5906.21346875,"end":5906.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5906.55096875,"end":5918.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5918.16096875,"end":5918.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5918.3465937500005,"end":5931.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5931.67784375,"end":5937.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5938.37721875,"end":5950.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5942.612843750001,"end":5942.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5942.663468750001,"end":5942.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5950.307843750001,"end":5950.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5950.493468750001,"end":5952.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5950.51034375,"end":5950.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5952.99096875,"end":5957.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5957.54721875,"end":5960.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5961.10784375,"end":5964.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5964.887843750001,"end":5967.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5968.38096875,"end":5969.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5969.106593750001,"end":5969.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5969.241593750001,"end":5969.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5970.169718749999,"end":5981.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5982.28596875,"end":5982.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5983.4334687499995,"end":5985.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5985.49221875,"end":5988.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5988.68159375,"end":5989.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5991.263468749999,"end":6004.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6005.26971875,"end":6015.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6015.86721875,"end":6016.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6016.154093749999,"end":6018.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6018.8709687499995,"end":6019.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6019.529093749999,"end":6022.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6022.819718750001,"end":6023.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6024.10221875,"end":6024.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6026.39721875,"end":6028.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6028.5740937499995,"end":6029.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6029.50221875,"end":6054.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6055.52346875,"end":6061.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6062.02034375,"end":6070.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6070.6434687500005,"end":6074.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6074.45721875,"end":6077.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6078.01784375,"end":6082.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6083.31659375,"end":6087.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6087.788468750001,"end":6096.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6096.15846875,"end":6102.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6103.75221875,"end":6105.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6105.91221875,"end":6116.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6116.77971875,"end":6120.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6120.91409375,"end":6126.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6126.972218750001,"end":6133.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6133.0809687500005,"end":6141.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6133.33409375,"end":6133.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6141.19784375,"end":6153.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6155.339093750001,"end":6166.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6166.206593750001,"end":6166.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6166.5272187499995,"end":6171.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6171.30284375,"end":6195.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6186.33846875,"end":6186.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6195.9403437500005,"end":6230.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6230.618468750001,"end":6243.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6243.966593749999,"end":6244.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6244.169093750001,"end":6311.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6312.19221875,"end":6322.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6324.224093750001,"end":6328.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6328.71284375,"end":6330.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6329.40471875,"end":6330.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6331.88534375,"end":6335.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6336.01971875,"end":6344.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6344.27159375,"end":6357.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6358.22721875,"end":6372.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6372.840968750001,"end":6374.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6374.96721875,"end":6404.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6405.460343750001,"end":6432.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6431.86971875,"end":6505.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6435.44721875,"end":6435.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6437.235968750001,"end":6437.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6505.74846875,"end":6508.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6508.920968750001,"end":6524.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6524.46284375,"end":6526.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6525.5428437499995,"end":6527.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6538.60409375,"end":6540.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6541.00034375,"end":6545.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6546.974093750001,"end":6549.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6555.934718750001,"end":6563.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6559.309718750001,"end":6559.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6561.182843750001,"end":6561.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6563.35971875,"end":6563.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6563.5790937500005,"end":6563.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6563.62971875,"end":6563.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6563.96721875,"end":6564.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6564.827843749999,"end":6564.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6564.91221875,"end":6564.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6573.11346875,"end":6580.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6580.825343750001,"end":6583.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6583.98096875,"end":6586.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6586.495343750001,"end":6593.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6593.54909375,"end":6604.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6604.534718750001,"end":6607.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6608.36534375,"end":6610.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6610.55909375,"end":6612.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6611.63909375,"end":6611.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6612.972218750001,"end":6613.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6613.41096875,"end":6625.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6625.37534375,"end":6625.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6625.5947187500005,"end":6626.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6627.34971875,"end":6628.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6629.12159375,"end":6634.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6635.061593750001,"end":6640.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6641.6259687500005,"end":6644.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6645.06846875,"end":6646.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6647.4647187499995,"end":6648.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6649.94534375,"end":6650.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6652.493468750001,"end":6655.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6656.64471875,"end":6660.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6660.357218749999,"end":6717.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6718.05284375,"end":6719.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6720.3309687500005,"end":6723.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6723.267218750001,"end":6723.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6723.452843749999,"end":6724.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6723.4697187500005,"end":6723.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6725.20784375,"end":6730.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6730.55721875,"end":6731.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6730.5740937499995,"end":6730.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6731.08034375,"end":6740.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6740.49659375,"end":6742.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6742.909718750001,"end":6746.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6747.58409375,"end":6748.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6748.66409375,"end":6756.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6756.460343750001,"end":6764.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6764.999093750001,"end":6774.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6774.887843750001,"end":6777.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6778.110968750001,"end":6778.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6778.1278437500005,"end":6778.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6778.14471875,"end":6778.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6778.161593750001,"end":6779.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6778.347218750001,"end":6778.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6779.798468750001,"end":6793.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6793.686593750001,"end":6830.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6830.82846875,"end":6835.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6835.51971875,"end":6845.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6845.661593750001,"end":6848.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6848.2772187499995,"end":6848.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6848.91846875,"end":6923.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6908.13284375,"end":6909.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6923.8603437500005,"end":6954.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6954.53909375,"end":6968.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6968.91659375,"end":6969.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6969.96284375,"end":6970.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6970.04721875,"end":6970.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6970.09784375,"end":6992.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6992.03534375,"end":6992.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6992.91284375,"end":6997.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6997.36784375,"end":6997.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6997.38471875,"end":6997.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6997.84034375,"end":7000.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7001.046593750001,"end":7010.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7009.0790937500005,"end":7013.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7013.02784375,"end":7013.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7014.0740937499995,"end":7014.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7014.090968750001,"end":7017.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7017.95534375,"end":7019.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7026.89909375,"end":7054.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7054.60784375,"end":7059.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7062.032843750001,"end":7076.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7077.135968750001,"end":7090.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7091.007218750001,"end":7092.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7092.81284375,"end":7098.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7098.786593750001,"end":7103.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7103.83221875,"end":7112.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7112.13471875,"end":7126.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7127.2040937500005,"end":7127.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7128.317843750001,"end":7128.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7129.46534375,"end":7131.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7132.38471875,"end":7151.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7152.651593750001,"end":7155.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7156.93784375,"end":7172.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7157.8153437500005,"end":7158.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7162.55721875,"end":7163.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7173.6103437500005,"end":7177.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7177.440968750001,"end":7182.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7182.38534375,"end":7192.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7192.679093750001,"end":7192.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7192.999718750001,"end":7202.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7202.16284375,"end":7206.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7206.600968750001,"end":7220.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7230.732218749999,"end":7236.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7236.30096875,"end":7237.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7243.84409375,"end":7246.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7246.493468750001,"end":7251.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7252.247843749999,"end":7257.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7257.95159375,"end":7260.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7261.03971875,"end":7267.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7268.245343750001,"end":7270.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7271.097218750001,"end":7274.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7274.82659375,"end":7282.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7279.93971875,"end":7280.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7283.2303437499995,"end":7286.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7286.622218750001,"end":7287.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7287.8709687499995,"end":7290.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7290.7059687500005,"end":7291.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7292.27534375,"end":7293.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7293.43971875,"end":7293.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7294.0809687500005,"end":7300.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7300.84784375,"end":7302.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7303.024718750001,"end":7304.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7304.59409375,"end":7305.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7305.876593750001,"end":7306.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7306.635968750001,"end":7308.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7309.352843750001,"end":7312.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7312.87971875,"end":7317.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7318.060343749999,"end":7321.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7321.80659375,"end":7322.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7322.8865937499995,"end":7326.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7326.6834687499995,"end":7328.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7329.450968749999,"end":7330.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7330.817843750001,"end":7336.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7336.8759687500005,"end":7340.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7341.66846875,"end":7343.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7344.19971875,"end":7346.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7347.49034375,"end":7348.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7348.165343750001,"end":7351.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7351.42221875,"end":7353.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7354.18971875,"end":7356.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7357.024718750001,"end":7362.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7364.41596875,"end":7364.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7365.597218750001,"end":7367.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7367.993468750001,"end":7371.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7372.56659375,"end":7375.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7375.89096875,"end":7377.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7378.60784375,"end":7384.345343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7384.497218750001,"end":7391.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7391.331593750001,"end":7395.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7396.309718750001,"end":7402.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7402.94159375,"end":7403.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7404.3759687500005,"end":7407.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7408.00409375,"end":7409.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7410.467843750001,"end":7412.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7412.45909375,"end":7415.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7415.83409375,"end":7416.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7416.94784375,"end":7419.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7419.7997187500005,"end":7422.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7423.09034375,"end":7424.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7425.52034375,"end":7427.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7428.67596875,"end":7430.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7430.9540937500005,"end":7431.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7432.08471875,"end":7434.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7434.66659375,"end":7445.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7446.10784375,"end":7446.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7447.542218750001,"end":7448.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7449.0272187499995,"end":7451.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7451.08596875,"end":7453.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7454.22471875,"end":7458.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7459.23659375,"end":7463.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7463.92784375,"end":7467.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7467.43784375,"end":7469.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7470.1884687500005,"end":7471.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7472.36534375,"end":7476.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7476.651593750001,"end":7481.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7481.950343750001,"end":7484.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7485.510968750001,"end":7488.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7488.86909375,"end":7494.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7494.640343750001,"end":7497.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7498.251593750001,"end":7503.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7504.157843750001,"end":7505.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7506.43596875,"end":7508.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7508.849093750001,"end":7518.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7518.602843750001,"end":7525.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7525.673468750001,"end":7531.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7532.17034375,"end":7537.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7538.26221875,"end":7541.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7541.97471875,"end":7545.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7545.079718750001,"end":7547.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7547.7459687499995,"end":7549.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7549.70346875,"end":7553.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7553.97284375,"end":7554.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7555.4072187500005,"end":7559.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7560.554093750001,"end":7562.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7563.270968750001,"end":7565.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7565.97096875,"end":7569.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7569.413468750001,"end":7579.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7579.57221875,"end":7582.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7582.37346875,"end":7583.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7584.48284375,"end":7587.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7587.57096875,"end":7589.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7590.220343750001,"end":7597.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7598.185343749999,"end":7600.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7601.6278437500005,"end":7604.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7604.243468750001,"end":7607.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7608.090968750001,"end":7608.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7610.11596875,"end":7610.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7610.13284375,"end":7611.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7612.309718750001,"end":7633.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7633.065968750001,"end":7638.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7634.9559687500005,"end":7634.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7634.989718750001,"end":7635.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7638.76971875,"end":7638.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7638.82034375,"end":7638.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7638.972218750001,"end":7645.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7646.0428437499995,"end":7648.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7648.5740937499995,"end":7651.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7652.286593750001,"end":7658.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7659.087218750001,"end":7664.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7665.4490937499995,"end":7666.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7667.50784375,"end":7671.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7671.99659375,"end":7672.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7673.81909375,"end":7674.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7674.94971875,"end":7675.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7676.21534375,"end":7677.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7677.90284375,"end":7679.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7680.16409375,"end":7682.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7684.19721875,"end":7686.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7687.60596875,"end":7693.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7692.66846875,"end":7693.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7693.88346875,"end":7699.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7700.22846875,"end":7702.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7703.519093750001,"end":7704.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7705.628468750001,"end":7706.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7706.74221875,"end":7716.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7716.512843750001,"end":7719.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7719.61784375,"end":7726.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7727.194718750001,"end":7738.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7738.585343750001,"end":7739.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7740.930968750001,"end":7741.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7741.825343750001,"end":7744.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7745.16659375,"end":7745.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7746.465968750001,"end":7747.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7747.98471875,"end":7751.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7751.8153437500005,"end":7754.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7754.987843750001,"end":7756.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7756.23659375,"end":7766.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7763.610968750001,"end":7763.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7763.64471875,"end":7764.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7766.2772187499995,"end":7779.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7780.300343750001,"end":7783.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7784.232218749999,"end":7790.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7784.2997187500005,"end":7784.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7792.5009687500005,"end":7806.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7806.642218750001,"end":7812.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7811.9072187500005,"end":7816.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7816.817843750001,"end":7817.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7818.404093749999,"end":7819.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7821.0028437500005,"end":7830.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7831.634093750001,"end":7832.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7833.43971875,"end":7835.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7835.700968749999,"end":7837.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7838.11409375,"end":7839.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7839.885968750001,"end":7843.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7844.189093750001,"end":7844.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7844.77971875,"end":7845.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7845.6572187500005,"end":7846.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7847.02409375,"end":7854.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7854.95534375,"end":7857.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7858.347218750001,"end":7864.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7864.810343749999,"end":7866.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7867.71284375,"end":7876.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7877.010968750001,"end":7891.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7892.4178437499995,"end":7910.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7911.8915937500005,"end":7914.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7914.878468750001,"end":7916.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7917.3759687500005,"end":7917.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7918.810343749999,"end":7922.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7923.58596875,"end":7925.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7925.3240937499995,"end":7929.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7930.774718750001,"end":7931.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7931.31471875,"end":7931.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7931.939093750001,"end":7932.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7933.3397187499995,"end":7934.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7934.58846875,"end":7938.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7939.262843750001,"end":7943.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7943.44784375,"end":7944.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7945.118468750001,"end":7949.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7950.01221875,"end":7951.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7951.80096875,"end":7952.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7953.606593750001,"end":7954.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7954.585343750001,"end":7954.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7955.327843750001,"end":7958.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7958.618468750001,"end":7961.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7962.921593750001,"end":7965.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7965.4022187499995,"end":7976.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7969.536593750001,"end":7969.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7975.341593749999,"end":7975.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7975.93221875,"end":7982.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7982.513468749999,"end":7985.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7986.19221875,"end":7990.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7991.1365937499995,"end":7997.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7997.1103437500005,"end":8008.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8008.65284375,"end":8011.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8011.79159375,"end":8016.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8015.31846875,"end":8015.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8015.9090937500005,"end":8019.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8019.554093750001,"end":8024.700968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8030.4384687500005,"end":8031.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8032.024718750001,"end":8034.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8034.43784375,"end":8035.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8041.32284375,"end":8051.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8048.96721875,"end":8049.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8051.9540937500005,"end":8057.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8058.01221875,"end":8061.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8062.14659375,"end":8064.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8064.5428437499995,"end":8070.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8070.53346875,"end":8070.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8071.32659375,"end":8072.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8073.01409375,"end":8075.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8076.557843750001,"end":8078.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8079.10596875,"end":8080.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8081.704718750001,"end":8083.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8083.64534375,"end":8083.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8083.729718750001,"end":8085.029093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8085.029093750001,"end":8085.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8086.61534375,"end":8086.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8086.66596875,"end":8102.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8103.10221875,"end":8103.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8103.11909375,"end":8109.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8111.16846875,"end":8111.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8112.029093750001,"end":8113.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8114.64471875,"end":8116.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8117.294093750001,"end":8118.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8118.644093750001,"end":8119.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8120.7197187500005,"end":8122.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8123.11596875,"end":8123.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8124.06096875,"end":8124.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8124.56721875,"end":8125.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8126.69346875,"end":8127.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8127.840968750001,"end":8131.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8132.329718750001,"end":8135.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8136.10971875,"end":8137.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8138.53971875,"end":8146.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8146.589093750001,"end":8156.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8156.714093750001,"end":8159.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8160.07221875,"end":8160.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8161.253468750001,"end":8166.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8166.923468750001,"end":8167.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8168.340968750001,"end":8174.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8175.276593750001,"end":8175.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8175.968468750001,"end":8184.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8185.249718750001,"end":8187.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8187.595343750001,"end":8199.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8195.45909375,"end":8195.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8199.45846875,"end":8202.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8202.90096875,"end":8205.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8205.617843750002,"end":8210.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8205.73596875,"end":8205.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8208.70596875,"end":8209.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8212.570343750001,"end":8216.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8217.683468750001,"end":8218.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8218.88159375,"end":8220.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8221.14284375,"end":8222.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8223.82596875,"end":8224.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8224.484093750001,"end":8226.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8226.964718750001,"end":8227.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8228.98971875,"end":8230.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8230.06971875,"end":8231.993468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8232.887843750003,"end":8234.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8234.38971875,"end":8234.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8235.60471875,"end":8243.384093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8244.24471875,"end":8245.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8246.40471875,"end":8254.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8254.47096875,"end":8255.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8256.52971875,"end":8257.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8257.829093750002,"end":8259.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8260.57971875,"end":8261.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8262.891593750002,"end":8263.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8264.157218750002,"end":8264.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8265.102218750002,"end":8265.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8266.739093750002,"end":8267.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8267.515343750001,"end":8267.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8268.274718749999,"end":8268.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8268.29159375,"end":8269.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8269.962218749999,"end":8275.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8274.636593750001,"end":8278.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8276.121593750002,"end":8276.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8277.657218750002,"end":8285.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8286.21284375,"end":8287.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8287.74846875,"end":8287.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8288.74409375,"end":8290.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8291.00534375,"end":8292.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8292.86159375,"end":8294.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8294.71784375,"end":8295.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8296.45596875,"end":8301.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8301.653468750003,"end":8302.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8302.480343750001,"end":8305.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8306.648468750001,"end":8308.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8310.32721875,"end":8311.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8311.559093750002,"end":8313.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8313.90471875,"end":8315.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8315.828468750002,"end":8317.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8318.91659375,"end":8318.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8318.933468750001,"end":8319.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8319.254093750002,"end":8319.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8319.726593750001,"end":8320.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8320.03034375,"end":8323.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8321.34659375,"end":8323.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8323.962218750003,"end":8325.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8325.02534375,"end":8326.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8328.687218750001,"end":8349.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8331.488468750002,"end":8333.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8333.969093750002,"end":8334.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8336.56784375,"end":8337.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8337.023468750001,"end":8337.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8337.597218750001,"end":8337.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8337.78284375,"end":8337.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8337.934718750003,"end":8338.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8338.019093750001,"end":8338.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8349.39284375,"end":8349.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8349.831593750001,"end":8350.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8350.050968750002,"end":8350.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8350.13534375,"end":8350.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8350.70909375,"end":8350.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8350.72596875,"end":8356.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8357.965343750002,"end":8358.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8360.699093750001,"end":8365.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8365.57596875,"end":8375.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8372.258468750002,"end":8373.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8373.034718750001,"end":8374.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8374.03034375,"end":8374.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8375.12721875,"end":8379.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8380.223468750002,"end":8381.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8381.590343750002,"end":8382.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8382.82221875,"end":8383.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8384.45909375,"end":8384.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8385.40409375,"end":8387.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8388.441593750002,"end":8389.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8389.032218750002,"end":8396.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8394.38159375,"end":8394.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8396.997218750003,"end":8398.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8399.528468750003,"end":8399.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8400.11909375,"end":8401.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8402.110343750002,"end":8405.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8406.24471875,"end":8409.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8410.024718750003,"end":8411.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8411.864093750002,"end":8412.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8413.281593750002,"end":8414.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8414.61471875,"end":8417.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8417.90534375,"end":8420.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8421.820343750001,"end":8423.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8423.777843750002,"end":8425.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8426.460968750001,"end":8427.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8427.675968750002,"end":8429.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8429.70096875,"end":8430.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8430.780968750001,"end":8432.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8433.07596875,"end":8433.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8433.734093750001,"end":8434.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8434.51034375,"end":8435.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8435.67471875,"end":8438.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8438.543468750002,"end":8441.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8441.88471875,"end":8444.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8444.972843750002,"end":8445.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8446.812218750001,"end":8447.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8447.90909375,"end":8449.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8449.782218750002,"end":8452.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8453.106593750003,"end":8455.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8457.527843750002,"end":8462.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8463.41721875,"end":8465.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8466.235343750002,"end":8469.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8469.52596875,"end":8470.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8470.79159375,"end":8472.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8472.445343750001,"end":8473.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8473.99784375,"end":8474.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8475.398468750001,"end":8476.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8477.575343750003,"end":8481.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8482.519718750002,"end":8483.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8485.101593750001,"end":8487.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8487.93659375,"end":8489.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8490.83909375,"end":8492.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8492.50971875,"end":8499.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8499.74909375,"end":8501.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8501.993468750003,"end":8502.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8503.79909375,"end":8505.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8506.92096875,"end":8507.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8509.367843750002,"end":8510.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8511.07221875,"end":8511.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8511.34221875,"end":8511.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8512.000343750002,"end":8513.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8512.06784375,"end":8512.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8513.789093750001,"end":8522.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8522.327843750001,"end":8523.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8523.340343750002,"end":8525.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8526.00659375,"end":8539.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8539.87784375,"end":8545.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8543.18534375,"end":8543.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8544.754718750002,"end":8545.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8546.340968750003,"end":8550.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8550.69471875,"end":8553.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8553.495968750001,"end":8556.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8556.65159375,"end":8557.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8557.12409375,"end":8557.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8557.54596875,"end":8558.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8558.47409375,"end":8559.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8559.97596875,"end":8560.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8561.055968750003,"end":8561.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8561.22471875,"end":8561.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8561.59596875,"end":8563.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8563.43534375,"end":8563.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8564.76846875,"end":8566.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8568.329093750002,"end":8574.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8573.745968750001,"end":8575.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8575.19721875,"end":8577.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8576.93534375,"end":8579.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8580.05721875,"end":8588.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8588.07284375,"end":8588.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8588.157218750002,"end":8588.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8588.477843750003,"end":8588.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8588.950343750003,"end":8588.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8588.984093750001,"end":8589.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8589.01784375,"end":8590.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8590.92471875,"end":8591.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8591.009093750003,"end":8593.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8591.02596875,"end":8592.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8595.29534375,"end":8596.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8598.36659375,"end":8601.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8602.230968750002,"end":8604.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8605.67346875,"end":8613.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8612.355968750002,"end":8613.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8613.68909375,"end":8616.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8617.77284375,"end":8620.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8620.371593750002,"end":8625.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8625.24846875,"end":8628.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8628.707843750002,"end":8628.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8628.74159375,"end":8629.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8629.04534375,"end":8630.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8630.31096875,"end":8639.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8638.59659375,"end":8641.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8642.02221875,"end":8648.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8648.637218750002,"end":8649.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8650.39221875,"end":8654.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8654.15534375,"end":8662.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8662.930343750002,"end":8666.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8662.96409375,"end":8665.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8666.47409375,"end":8666.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8667.199718750002,"end":8668.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8668.195343750001,"end":8668.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8668.44846875,"end":8669.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8669.781593750002,"end":8671.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8671.722218750001,"end":8674.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8676.07596875,"end":8678.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8679.41721875,"end":8680.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8680.73346875,"end":8682.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8682.859718750002,"end":8683.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8684.88471875,"end":8685.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8685.27284375,"end":8685.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8685.711593750002,"end":8685.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8686.63971875,"end":8686.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8686.656593750002,"end":8687.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8687.972843750002,"end":8690.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8690.85846875,"end":8699.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8699.97096875,"end":8700.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8700.747218750003,"end":8700.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8700.96659375,"end":8702.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8703.39659375,"end":8704.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8704.66221875,"end":8709.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8712.171593750001,"end":8712.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8712.84659375,"end":8713.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8713.487843750001,"end":8713.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8713.504718750002,"end":8713.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8713.52159375,"end":8713.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8713.53846875,"end":8714.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8713.909718750001,"end":8715.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8716.660343750002,"end":8716.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8717.41971875,"end":8717.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8717.824718750002,"end":8718.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8718.989093750002,"end":8721.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8721.790343750003,"end":8721.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8721.80721875,"end":8722.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8722.80284375,"end":8727.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8728.33784375,"end":8731.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8732.337218750003,"end":8732.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8733.687218750001,"end":8734.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8734.81784375,"end":8735.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8735.83034375,"end":8736.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8737.72034375,"end":8740.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8741.01096875,"end":8742.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8742.917843750001,"end":8744.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8745.415343750003,"end":8745.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8746.37721875,"end":8752.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8753.19471875,"end":8755.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8756.87346875,"end":8759.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8759.421593750001,"end":8767.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8767.25159375,"end":8768.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8768.719718750002,"end":8772.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8772.58409375,"end":8773.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8773.934093750002,"end":8774.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8775.53721875,"end":8777.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8775.773468750001,"end":8780.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8788.868468750003,"end":8788.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8788.88534375,"end":8789.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8789.03721875,"end":8789.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8792.226593750001,"end":8793.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8811.14346875,"end":8813.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8813.910968750002,"end":8814.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8814.78846875,"end":8814.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8814.99096875,"end":8815.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8815.09221875,"end":8815.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8815.868468750003,"end":8824.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8827.86659375,"end":8828.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8828.507843750001,"end":8829.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9043.22534375,"end":9043.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9043.96784375,"end":9044.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9385.534718750001,"end":9391.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9400.82346875,"end":9408.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9407.742218750001,"end":9407.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9408.02909375,"end":9408.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9408.56909375,"end":9408.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9408.737843750001,"end":9408.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9414.188468750002,"end":9439.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9439.905968750001,"end":9445.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9446.183468750001,"end":9462.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9462.805343750002,"end":9464.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9468.89721875,"end":9471.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9472.356593750003,"end":9495.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9495.340343750002,"end":9496.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9496.757843750001,"end":9509.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9510.055343750002,"end":9511.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9512.265968750002,"end":9519.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9519.92721875,"end":9523.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9523.825343750003,"end":9537.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9537.88221875,"end":9544.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9544.34534375,"end":9553.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9553.99784375,"end":9581.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9581.89221875,"end":9617.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9618.055343750002,"end":9626.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9627.066593750002,"end":9632.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9631.555343750002,"end":9679.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9633.95159375,"end":9634.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9649.324718750002,"end":9649.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9679.46346875,"end":9681.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9680.712218750003,"end":9680.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9683.074718750002,"end":9721.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9722.96721875,"end":9730.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9730.949093750001,"end":9750.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9751.08096875,"end":9757.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9758.20221875,"end":9759.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9759.97409375,"end":9760.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9760.919093750003,"end":9775.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9775.95471875,"end":9787.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9787.98659375,"end":9790.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9790.534718750001,"end":9793.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9794.669093750003,"end":9799.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9799.79909375,"end":9803.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9803.27534375,"end":9809.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9810.24471875,"end":9832.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9832.587218750003,"end":9843.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9844.754093750002,"end":9876.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9875.56784375,"end":9875.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9876.63096875,"end":9967.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9894.67034375,"end":9894.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9894.97409375,"end":9895.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9912.65909375,"end":9912.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9912.96284375,"end":9912.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9967.33409375,"end":9971.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9971.70471875,"end":9997.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9998.18159375,"end":10000.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10001.691593750002,"end":10001.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10001.70846875,"end":10001.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10001.82659375,"end":10002.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10002.012218750002,"end":10005.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10005.690968750001,"end":10006.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10006.61909375,"end":10006.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10007.327843750001,"end":10014.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10021.637843750003,"end":10023.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10024.050968750002,"end":10024.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10025.367218750001,"end":10026.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10035.644093750001,"end":10036.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10035.74534375,"end":10035.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10036.977218750002,"end":10037.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10037.06159375,"end":10038.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10038.968468750001,"end":10039.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10040.622218750003,"end":10040.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10040.655968750001,"end":10042.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10043.96346875,"end":10050.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10051.08471875,"end":10053.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10053.61596875,"end":10054.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10055.45534375,"end":10056.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10056.585968750001,"end":10056.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10056.67034375,"end":10057.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10058.66159375,"end":10058.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10058.965343750002,"end":10059.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10060.61909375,"end":10060.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10060.66971875,"end":10060.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10060.973468750002,"end":10061.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10062.120968750001,"end":10069.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10063.133468750002,"end":10063.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10063.234718750002,"end":10064.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10064.297843750002,"end":10064.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10068.43221875,"end":10069.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10069.63034375,"end":10070.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10071.11534375,"end":10072.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10072.769093750001,"end":10073.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10073.309093750002,"end":10075.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10076.144093750001,"end":10078.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10079.046593750001,"end":10081.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10082.15159375,"end":10084.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10085.965343750002,"end":10089.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10089.492218750001,"end":10094.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10095.65159375,"end":10096.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10097.33909375,"end":10100.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10101.13596875,"end":10102.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10103.86971875,"end":10104.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10104.96659375,"end":10105.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10106.77221875,"end":10108.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10109.35409375,"end":10110.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10111.81784375,"end":10113.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10115.46284375,"end":10118.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10119.293468750002,"end":10120.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10123.191593750002,"end":10123.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10124.237843750001,"end":10124.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10125.23346875,"end":10126.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10126.667843750001,"end":10126.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10127.12346875,"end":10128.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10129.367843750002,"end":10130.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10129.75596875,"end":10132.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10132.23659375,"end":10134.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10133.890343750001,"end":10134.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10135.122218750003,"end":10137.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10137.265343750001,"end":10137.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10138.530968750001,"end":10139.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10138.63221875,"end":10139.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10139.50971875,"end":10139.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10139.695343750001,"end":10139.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10140.82596875,"end":10140.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10140.977843750003,"end":10141.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10141.028468750003,"end":10141.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10141.703468750002,"end":10141.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10141.804718750001,"end":10143.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10144.403468750003,"end":10145.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10146.95159375,"end":10149.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10150.039718750002,"end":10151.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10152.06471875,"end":10153.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10154.81534375,"end":10156.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10156.620968750001,"end":10157.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10157.532218750002,"end":10160.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10161.17721875,"end":10162.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10162.206593750001,"end":10163.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10163.387843750003,"end":10164.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10166.644718750002,"end":10167.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10167.555968750003,"end":10168.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10169.648468750001,"end":10171.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10171.94346875,"end":10172.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10172.972843750002,"end":10173.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10174.086593750002,"end":10177.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10179.503468750001,"end":10180.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10180.566593750002,"end":10183.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10183.519718750002,"end":10187.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10188.44721875,"end":10190.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10190.94471875,"end":10192.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10194.08346875,"end":10195.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10196.800343750001,"end":10197.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10198.234718750002,"end":10200.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10201.42409375,"end":10203.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10204.10721875,"end":10206.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10206.452843750001,"end":10208.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10208.86596875,"end":10209.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10211.515343750001,"end":10212.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10214.114093750002,"end":10216.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10217.97846875,"end":10219.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10220.796593750001,"end":10224.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10225.437218750001,"end":10226.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10227.37784375,"end":10231.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10231.90034375,"end":10232.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10233.38534375,"end":10236.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10236.473468750002,"end":10241.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10242.59909375,"end":10243.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10245.636593750001,"end":10246.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10246.83471875,"end":10248.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10248.03284375,"end":10248.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10249.855343750001,"end":10256.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10253.922218750002,"end":10254.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10255.019093750001,"end":10256.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10257.31409375,"end":10258.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10259.69346875,"end":10261.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10262.54534375,"end":10264.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10264.53659375,"end":10265.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10266.679718750001,"end":10268.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10269.683468750001,"end":10271.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10272.97409375,"end":10274.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10275.72471875,"end":10277.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10279.26846875,"end":10282.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10284.094718750002,"end":10286.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10287.31784375,"end":10288.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10289.612843750001,"end":10291.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10291.80659375,"end":10304.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10304.344718750002,"end":10306.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10306.52159375,"end":10307.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10307.16284375,"end":10309.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10309.019093750001,"end":10309.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10309.05284375,"end":10314.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10314.68909375,"end":10322.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10322.92409375,"end":10322.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10322.99159375,"end":10323.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10323.46409375,"end":10327.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10323.61596875,"end":10323.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10328.003468750001,"end":10328.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10328.72909375,"end":10335.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10334.719718750002,"end":10336.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10336.879718750002,"end":10339.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10339.47846875,"end":10341.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10341.97596875,"end":10346.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10345.70534375,"end":10348.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10349.586593750002,"end":10350.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10351.67909375,"end":10352.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10352.961593750002,"end":10355.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10356.336593750002,"end":10360.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10360.96034375,"end":10362.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10361.98971875,"end":10363.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10363.37346875,"end":10381.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10367.37284375,"end":10367.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10380.737843750001,"end":10384.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10385.817218750002,"end":10389.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10390.74471875,"end":10391.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10392.837218750003,"end":10395.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10395.942218750002,"end":10397.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10398.844718750002,"end":10400.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10400.80221875,"end":10402.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10403.215343750002,"end":10403.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10405.054718750001,"end":10407.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10408.24409375,"end":10409.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10410.066593750002,"end":10411.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10413.00284375,"end":10415.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10415.21346875,"end":10416.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10415.98971875,"end":10419.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10419.449093750001,"end":10422.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10420.00596875,"end":10420.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10420.360343750002,"end":10421.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10422.53721875,"end":10425.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10426.469093750002,"end":10426.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10426.48596875,"end":10427.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10427.363468750002,"end":10427.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10428.679718750001,"end":10430.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10430.50221875,"end":10433.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10431.44721875,"end":10432.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10434.231593750003,"end":10443.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10441.875968750002,"end":10442.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10444.49159375,"end":10447.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10448.33909375,"end":10449.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10450.53284375,"end":10450.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10451.29221875,"end":10456.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10456.962218750003,"end":10457.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10458.46409375,"end":10459.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10460.472218750001,"end":10463.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10464.42096875,"end":10469.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10468.84221875,"end":10471.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10471.980968750002,"end":10475.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10472.031593750002,"end":10473.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10474.86659375,"end":10476.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10477.313468750002,"end":10479.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10480.03034375,"end":10482.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10482.76409375,"end":10488.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10489.14284375,"end":10489.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10489.969718750002,"end":10492.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10493.63159375,"end":10495.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10495.977218750002,"end":10496.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10496.09534375,"end":10497.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10498.238468750002,"end":10501.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10501.613468750002,"end":10503.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10502.980343750001,"end":10503.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10503.80721875,"end":10507.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10506.38909375,"end":10507.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10508.29596875,"end":10509.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10510.894718750002,"end":10512.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10513.03784375,"end":10513.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10514.20221875,"end":10516.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10517.020343750002,"end":10517.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10517.661593750003,"end":10517.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10519.382843750001,"end":10521.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10521.492218750001,"end":10522.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10523.652218750001,"end":10524.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10525.27221875,"end":10526.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10527.22971875,"end":10530.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10530.55409375,"end":10530.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10530.773468750001,"end":10537.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10535.59971875,"end":10537.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10537.30409375,"end":10537.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10537.320968750002,"end":10537.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10537.574093750001,"end":10547.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10540.51034375,"end":10540.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10541.269718750002,"end":10542.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10543.61534375,"end":10544.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10544.594093750002,"end":10544.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10544.695343750001,"end":10545.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10548.019718750002,"end":10549.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10549.352843750003,"end":10549.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10549.36971875,"end":10549.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10549.74096875,"end":10551.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10549.757843750001,"end":10551.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10552.457843750002,"end":10556.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10552.59284375,"end":10554.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10557.081593750001,"end":10559.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10560.18659375,"end":10561.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10561.249718750001,"end":10561.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10562.144093750001,"end":10562.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10562.160968750002,"end":10563.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10563.105968750002,"end":10566.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10565.50221875,"end":10574.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10573.855343750001,"end":10578.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10578.68159375,"end":10579.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10579.37346875,"end":10582.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10579.457843750002,"end":10580.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10580.520968750003,"end":10580.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10582.394093750001,"end":10582.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10582.74846875,"end":10583.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10583.254718750002,"end":10586.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10583.44034375,"end":10583.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10587.76034375,"end":10590.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10590.797843750002,"end":10591.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10591.77659375,"end":10593.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10594.34159375,"end":10596.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10596.78846875,"end":10599.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10597.26096875,"end":10598.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10599.37034375,"end":10599.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10600.63596875,"end":10601.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10602.47534375,"end":10603.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10605.192218750002,"end":10606.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10611.97596875,"end":10612.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10614.50721875,"end":10616.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10615.92471875,"end":10620.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10617.629093750002,"end":10618.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10620.34596875,"end":10622.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10623.51846875,"end":10625.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10626.015968750002,"end":10627.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10627.804718750001,"end":10629.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10630.15034375,"end":10631.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10631.500343750002,"end":10633.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10634.149718750003,"end":10637.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10637.11971875,"end":10641.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10643.02596875,"end":10643.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10643.97096875,"end":10645.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10646.114093750002,"end":10646.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10647.51471875,"end":10648.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10649.219093750002,"end":10651.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10652.03721875,"end":10653.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10654.09596875,"end":10655.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10656.593468750001,"end":10657.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10657.99409375,"end":10663.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10663.86659375,"end":10670.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10670.65034375,"end":10673.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10681.68659375,"end":10686.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10686.69846875,"end":10687.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10687.00221875,"end":10689.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10695.254093750002,"end":10695.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10695.86159375,"end":10696.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10697.75159375,"end":10705.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10705.93596875,"end":10710.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10710.610343750002,"end":10724.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10725.29159375,"end":10738.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10740.42846875,"end":10747.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10747.92096875,"end":10762.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10753.270343750002,"end":10754.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10754.60346875,"end":10754.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10762.855343750001,"end":10775.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10775.781593750002,"end":10775.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10775.984093750001,"end":10778.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10778.34659375,"end":10787.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10787.813468750002,"end":10790.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10787.94846875,"end":10788.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10790.85096875,"end":10792.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10790.88471875,"end":10800.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10800.672218750002,"end":10812.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10813.176593750002,"end":10813.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10813.598468750002,"end":10817.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10818.036593750003,"end":10828.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10825.984718750002,"end":10827.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10829.02221875,"end":10831.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10831.620968750001,"end":10841.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10841.56034375,"end":10843.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10844.83409375,"end":10847.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10847.449718750002,"end":10847.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10848.074093750001,"end":10853.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10853.727218750002,"end":10858.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10858.92471875,"end":10862.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10862.60346875,"end":10867.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10868.020343750002,"end":10869.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10869.589718750001,"end":10873.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10873.555343750002,"end":10876.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10876.52534375,"end":10888.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10888.81034375,"end":10891.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10892.286593750003,"end":10894.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10894.63221875,"end":10896.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10896.79221875,"end":10912.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10912.87409375,"end":10913.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10914.629093750002,"end":10918.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10918.24034375,"end":10922.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10922.50971875,"end":10926.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10926.070343750001,"end":10930.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10928.93909375,"end":10929.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10931.132843750001,"end":10932.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10933.07346875,"end":10958.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10934.59221875,"end":10934.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10935.503468750001,"end":10935.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10937.27534375,"end":10937.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10944.97034375,"end":10945.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10946.08409375,"end":10946.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10958.824718750002,"end":10969.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10962.570968750002,"end":10962.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10969.86096875,"end":10994.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10994.380343750003,"end":11011.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11012.63909375,"end":11015.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11013.499718750001,"end":11044.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11015.777843750002,"end":11016.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11044.364093750002,"end":11053.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11056.058468750001,"end":11060.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11060.14221875,"end":11060.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11060.800343750001,"end":11060.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11060.817218750002,"end":11066.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11062.04909375,"end":11062.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11066.993468750003,"end":11076.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11067.347843750002,"end":11068.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11068.984718750002,"end":11069.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11069.49096875,"end":11069.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11071.60034375,"end":11071.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11075.532218750002,"end":11075.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11076.426593750002,"end":11086.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11079.008468750002,"end":11079.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11081.94471875,"end":11082.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11083.598468750002,"end":11084.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11085.89346875,"end":11091.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11089.015343750001,"end":11089.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11091.445343750001,"end":11100.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11100.794093750003,"end":11102.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11103.004718750002,"end":11130.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11129.34659375,"end":11134.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11134.25721875,"end":11144.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11144.73659375,"end":11145.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11145.05721875,"end":11146.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11146.20471875,"end":11150.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11150.91284375,"end":11155.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11155.941593750002,"end":11180.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11179.75221875,"end":11182.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11182.38471875,"end":11196.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11196.036593750003,"end":11196.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11197.11659375,"end":11204.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11204.524718750003,"end":11212.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11211.66284375,"end":11212.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11212.28721875,"end":11228.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11227.862843750001,"end":11231.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11230.731593750003,"end":11235.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11234.579093750002,"end":11239.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11239.35471875,"end":11244.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11244.704093750002,"end":11245.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11245.446593750003,"end":11246.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11245.73346875,"end":11245.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11245.902218750001,"end":11245.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11245.93596875,"end":11247.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11247.94409375,"end":11256.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11256.668468750002,"end":11262.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11262.152843750002,"end":11262.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11262.97971875,"end":11263.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11263.38471875,"end":11266.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11266.70909375,"end":11269.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11278.504718750002,"end":11283.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11280.68159375,"end":11281.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11283.21284375,"end":11284.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11283.297218750002,"end":11284.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11285.187218750001,"end":11286.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11285.355968750002,"end":11286.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11286.992843750002,"end":11287.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11287.735343750002,"end":11287.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11287.97159375,"end":11288.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11288.27534375,"end":11289.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11291.75159375,"end":11292.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11292.224093750003,"end":11292.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11292.49409375,"end":11325.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11322.902843750002,"end":11323.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11323.03784375,"end":11323.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11323.24034375,"end":11323.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11323.29096875,"end":11323.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11323.324718750002,"end":11323.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11323.34159375,"end":11323.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11323.35846875,"end":11323.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11323.39221875,"end":11323.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11323.915343750003,"end":11323.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11323.999718750001,"end":11324.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11324.03346875,"end":11324.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11324.050343750001,"end":11324.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11324.067218750002,"end":11324.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11324.08409375,"end":11324.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11324.15159375,"end":11324.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11324.18534375,"end":11324.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11325.737843750001,"end":11363.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11362.255343750003,"end":11370.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11363.48721875,"end":11364.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11365.140968750002,"end":11365.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11367.942218750002,"end":11377.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11377.08846875,"end":11382.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11380.24409375,"end":11381.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11382.82596875,"end":11382.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11382.84284375,"end":11383.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11382.977843750003,"end":11384.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11385.120968750001,"end":11393.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11391.01034375,"end":11392.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11393.42346875,"end":11393.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11393.929718750001,"end":11396.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11396.309093750002,"end":11401.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11398.82346875,"end":11399.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11401.624718750001,"end":11420.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11409.117218750001,"end":11410.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11420.204093750002,"end":11424.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11424.92909375,"end":11427.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11427.98346875,"end":11433.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11433.704093750002,"end":11435.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11435.712218750003,"end":11436.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11437.04534375,"end":11443.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11443.69409375,"end":11447.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11447.54159375,"end":11449.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11449.90409375,"end":11452.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11452.90784375,"end":11456.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11456.384093750003,"end":11461.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11461.969718750002,"end":11464.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11464.93971875,"end":11468.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11468.449718750002,"end":11475.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11476.12784375,"end":11486.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11485.223468750002,"end":11493.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11489.77971875,"end":11490.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11492.85096875,"end":11499.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11497.59284375,"end":11509.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11501.524718750003,"end":11501.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11503.094093750002,"end":11503.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11506.35096875,"end":11506.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11509.962218750003,"end":11527.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11528.204093750002,"end":11529.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11529.520343750002,"end":11533.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11534.059718750003,"end":11554.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11554.461593750002,"end":11562.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11558.950343750003,"end":11559.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11560.77284375,"end":11571.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11565.312218750001,"end":11568.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11568.24846875,"end":11568.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11575.605968750002,"end":11575.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11575.62284375,"end":11609.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11610.402218750001,"end":11611.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11611.54971875,"end":11613.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11613.777218750001,"end":11620.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11620.71284375,"end":11629.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11629.21784375,"end":11629.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11629.234718750002,"end":11629.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11629.25159375,"end":11629.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11630.06159375,"end":11638.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11638.684718750003,"end":11639.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11639.81534375,"end":11640.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11641.01346875,"end":11644.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11644.472843750002,"end":11645.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11645.87346875,"end":11648.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11648.809718750003,"end":11654.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11654.26034375,"end":11661.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11654.344718750002,"end":11655.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11662.140968750002,"end":11672.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11672.637218750002,"end":11674.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11674.965968750003,"end":11690.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11690.035343750002,"end":11697.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11697.747218750003,"end":11703.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11703.67034375,"end":11724.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11705.290343750003,"end":11705.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11716.242218750001,"end":11716.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11725.641593750002,"end":11726.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11726.29971875,"end":11741.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11741.33534375,"end":11745.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11745.722843750002,"end":11757.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11758.277843750002,"end":11771.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11772.11534375,"end":11790.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11791.386593750001,"end":11802.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11802.355343750001,"end":11809.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11810.117843750002,"end":11812.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11812.109093750001,"end":11816.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11813.72909375,"end":11814.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11815.011593750001,"end":11815.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11816.715968750003,"end":11819.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11821.677218750003,"end":11827.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11836.24034375,"end":11842.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11845.437218750001,"end":11847.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11846.46659375,"end":11846.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11846.48346875,"end":11846.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11846.500343750002,"end":11847.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11847.968468750001,"end":11848.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11848.84596875,"end":11864.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11865.45096875,"end":11868.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11869.281593750002,"end":11871.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11871.509093750003,"end":11872.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11873.88846875,"end":11876.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11876.504093750002,"end":11879.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11880.874718750001,"end":11883.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11883.895343750002,"end":11887.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11887.962218750003,"end":11889.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11890.45971875,"end":11892.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11892.87284375,"end":11893.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11893.952843750001,"end":11894.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11895.235343750002,"end":11896.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11897.04096875,"end":11900.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11900.922218750002,"end":11901.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11902.15409375,"end":11903.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11904.499718750001,"end":11908.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11909.02221875,"end":11909.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11910.405968750001,"end":11912.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11912.937218750001,"end":11915.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11916.41346875,"end":11917.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11919.04596875,"end":11921.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11921.864093750002,"end":11926.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11926.977218750002,"end":11930.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11930.504093750002,"end":11944.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11944.949093750001,"end":11945.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11946.012218750002,"end":11948.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11949.218468750001,"end":11953.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11954.09534375,"end":11958.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11959.57971875,"end":11961.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11962.043468750002,"end":11963.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11964.456593750001,"end":11968.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11968.523468750001,"end":11970.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11970.480968750002,"end":11973.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11973.61971875,"end":11974.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11974.902218750001,"end":11976.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11976.99471875,"end":11979.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11980.082843750002,"end":11982.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11983.440968750001,"end":11987.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11988.38534375,"end":11989.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11990.106593750003,"end":11999.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11999.97846875,"end":12001.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12002.442218750002,"end":12003.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12004.129718750002,"end":12005.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12007.16721875,"end":12011.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12012.90471875,"end":12036.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12027.214718750001,"end":12027.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12037.305968750003,"end":12040.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12040.934093750002,"end":12045.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12045.996593750002,"end":12050.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12046.38471875,"end":12046.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12050.755343750003,"end":12051.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12055.56471875,"end":12056.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12056.864093750002,"end":12061.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12062.129093750002,"end":12064.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12065.41971875,"end":12067.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12068.035343750002,"end":12068.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12068.37284375,"end":12071.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12072.102218750002,"end":12073.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12074.29596875,"end":12074.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12075.39284375,"end":12076.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12076.77659375,"end":12079.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12078.278468750003,"end":12079.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12079.83096875,"end":12080.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12080.117843750002,"end":12083.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12083.965343750002,"end":12084.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12085.500968750002,"end":12091.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12092.01471875,"end":12097.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12098.511593750001,"end":12103.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12104.02971875,"end":12106.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12106.98284375,"end":12114.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12115.487843750001,"end":12116.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12117.141593750002,"end":12118.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12119.655968750001,"end":12120.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12120.347843750002,"end":12131.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12132.81846875,"end":12133.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12135.40034375,"end":12140.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12141.120968750001,"end":12142.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12143.48346875,"end":12152.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12150.570968750002,"end":12150.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12152.59596875,"end":12154.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12154.90784375,"end":12158.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12159.750968750002,"end":12164.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12163.63221875,"end":12164.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12164.83034375,"end":12171.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12169.79159375,"end":12169.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12169.977218750002,"end":12170.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12172.10346875,"end":12175.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12175.52909375,"end":12178.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12179.207843750002,"end":12184.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12182.802218750003,"end":12182.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12183.747218750003,"end":12184.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12184.793468750002,"end":12185.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12185.08034375,"end":12191.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12189.67034375,"end":12190.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12191.543468750002,"end":12192.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12191.57721875,"end":12192.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12192.437843750002,"end":12192.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12192.77534375,"end":12199.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12199.660343750002,"end":12205.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12199.727843750003,"end":12199.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12199.89659375,"end":12200.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12200.301593750002,"end":12200.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12200.31846875,"end":12200.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12200.47034375,"end":12200.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12203.980343750001,"end":12203.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12203.997218750003,"end":12204.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12204.11534375,"end":12204.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12205.617218750001,"end":12205.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12206.32596875,"end":12213.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12213.39659375,"end":12215.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12215.286593750003,"end":12217.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12217.98659375,"end":12219.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12219.910343750002,"end":12221.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12222.137843750003,"end":12226.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12226.57596875,"end":12228.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12228.921593750001,"end":12231.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12240.66659375,"end":12241.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12241.999718750001,"end":12242.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12247.922843750002,"end":12247.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12247.973468750002,"end":12248.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12248.05784375,"end":12248.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12248.277218750001,"end":12248.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12248.36159375,"end":12266.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12259.364093750002,"end":12260.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12260.34284375,"end":12260.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12260.49471875,"end":12260.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12260.933468750001,"end":12261.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12263.684093750002,"end":12263.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12263.734718750002,"end":12264.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12266.56971875,"end":12268.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12269.15159375,"end":12270.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12271.31159375,"end":12272.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12274.180343750002,"end":12276.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12276.492218750001,"end":12278.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12281.80784375,"end":12283.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12283.815968750001,"end":12283.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12283.832843750002,"end":12284.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12285.85784375,"end":12288.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12289.08096875,"end":12289.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12290.02596875,"end":12298.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12299.003468750001,"end":12317.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12317.565968750001,"end":12319.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12320.70471875,"end":12326.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12321.599093750003,"end":12321.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12321.61596875,"end":12321.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12321.632843750001,"end":12322.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12326.94846875,"end":12334.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12331.15034375,"end":12332.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12332.027843750002,"end":12336.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12334.710968750001,"end":12348.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12337.49534375,"end":12338.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12339.13221875,"end":12339.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12339.68909375,"end":12339.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12346.641593750002,"end":12347.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12348.160343750002,"end":12351.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12349.83096875,"end":12361.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12361.035968750002,"end":12366.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12363.22971875,"end":12373.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12367.465343750002,"end":12367.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12374.384093750003,"end":12388.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12388.710968750001,"end":12394.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12395.089718750001,"end":12396.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12395.140343750001,"end":12395.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12395.207843750002,"end":12395.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12395.258468750002,"end":12395.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12396.524093750002,"end":12413.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12413.871593750002,"end":12416.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12417.33096875,"end":12421.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12421.49909375,"end":12422.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12422.933468750001,"end":12425.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12424.06409375,"end":12424.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12424.50284375,"end":12424.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12425.059718750003,"end":12425.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12426.08909375,"end":12431.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12431.35409375,"end":12435.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12435.134093750003,"end":12439.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12440.04471875,"end":12440.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12440.753468750001,"end":12458.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12459.40034375,"end":12478.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12478.38471875,"end":12490.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12490.73721875,"end":12499.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12499.731593750003,"end":12505.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12506.32971875,"end":12513.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12514.075343750003,"end":12515.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12515.93159375,"end":12519.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12519.62721875,"end":12524.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12524.80784375,"end":12530.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12531.38909375,"end":12534.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12534.19034375,"end":12546.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12547.36971875,"end":12552.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12552.769718750002,"end":12557.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12557.71409375,"end":12559.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12559.35096875,"end":12596.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12566.539718750002,"end":12566.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12566.57346875,"end":12566.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12566.691593750002,"end":12567.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12567.282218750002,"end":12567.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12575.88846875,"end":12576.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12580.680968750003,"end":12581.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12581.609093750001,"end":12582.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12597.10034375,"end":12621.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12616.33784375,"end":12616.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12621.41721875,"end":12625.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12625.56846875,"end":12625.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12625.66971875,"end":12625.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12625.78784375,"end":12630.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12625.804718750001,"end":12625.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12625.99034375,"end":12626.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12626.04096875,"end":12626.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12631.20471875,"end":12632.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12632.63909375,"end":12644.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12633.95534375,"end":12634.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12644.62034375,"end":12660.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12659.976593750001,"end":12660.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12660.938468750002,"end":12672.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12673.03784375,"end":12678.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12678.67409375,"end":12686.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12686.53784375,"end":12689.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12689.355968750002,"end":12690.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12689.79471875,"end":12695.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12694.165343750003,"end":12694.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12695.464718750001,"end":12700.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12700.054718750001,"end":12700.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12700.493468750003,"end":12700.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12700.66221875,"end":12701.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12701.62409375,"end":12703.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12703.581593750001,"end":12703.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12704.18909375,"end":12706.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12707.074718750002,"end":12709.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12709.26846875,"end":12712.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12712.42409375,"end":12715.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12721.50284375,"end":12722.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12722.835968750001,"end":12723.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12729.687218750001,"end":12729.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12729.72096875,"end":12730.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12731.10471875,"end":12777.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12735.019718750002,"end":12735.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12736.757843750001,"end":12736.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12736.977218750002,"end":12737.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12737.027843750002,"end":12737.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12737.16284375,"end":12737.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12777.91596875,"end":12778.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12779.14784375,"end":12794.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12795.027218750001,"end":12865.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12799.49909375,"end":12799.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12800.477843750003,"end":12801.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12812.965343750002,"end":12813.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12866.25659375,"end":12866.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12866.273468750001,"end":12879.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12868.602218750002,"end":12868.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12880.06034375,"end":12895.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12895.31534375,"end":12905.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12905.895968750003,"end":12906.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12905.980343750001,"end":12915.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12915.683468750001,"end":12950.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12949.51784375,"end":12949.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12950.817218750002,"end":12951.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12952.63971875,"end":12953.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12954.293468750002,"end":12957.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12958.05659375,"end":12960.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12960.840968750003,"end":12964.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12966.359093750001,"end":12970.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12970.71284375,"end":12971.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12971.708468750003,"end":12974.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12974.172218750002,"end":12977.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12977.46284375,"end":12979.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12979.84221875,"end":12982.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12982.980968750002,"end":12984.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12984.837218750003,"end":12986.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12987.48659375,"end":12996.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12998.45534375,"end":13000.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13001.25659375,"end":13002.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13003.079093750002,"end":13004.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13005.20534375,"end":13007.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13008.765968750002,"end":13009.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13010.234093750001,"end":13012.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13012.91721875,"end":13014.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13014.503468750001,"end":13015.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13016.477843750003,"end":13017.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13018.367843750002,"end":13018.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13019.802218750003,"end":13033.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13091.68971875,"end":13092.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13092.044093750003,"end":13092.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13092.550343750001,"end":13092.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13092.58409375,"end":13092.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13092.870968750001,"end":13092.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13092.989093750002,"end":13093.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13093.02284375,"end":13093.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13093.17471875,"end":13093.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13093.461593750002,"end":13099.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13097.49471875,"end":13097.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13097.96721875,"end":13098.034718750001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1605.868,"end":1613.875,"text":"好現在開會出席委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1615.765,"end":1641.112,"text":"立法院第十一屆第四會期交通委員會第十四次全體委員會議議事錄時間115年1月5日星期一上午9時至下午1時18分地點本院紅樓201會議室出席委員洪孟凱等15人列席委員鐘嘉賓等11人列席官員行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德等主席洪昭吉委員孟凱報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定"},{"start":1642.572,"end":1654.396,"text":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員等就公告修正政府採購法以求精進政府採購效率提高重大工程進度品質獨覺遏制廠商投標可能進行專題報告並被質詢"},{"start":1657.149,"end":1678.161,"text":"討論事項審查政府採購法修正草案等二十案本日會議由委員王宏威說明提案要持由行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德報告後繼由委員洪孟凱等十九人提出質詢據經行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德等相關人員分別予以答覆決議一報告及詢答完畢"},{"start":1678.921,"end":1694.357,"text":"二 委員優浩等二人所提書面質詢均列入記錄並刊登公報三 委員於執行中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請行政院公共工程委員會及相關機關競訴以書面答覆四 討論事項個案均另定期繼續審查散會宣讀完畢"},{"start":1707.638,"end":1732.716,"text":"請問在場委員對一絲路有沒有意見沒有意見一絲路確定現在介紹在場的委員洪孟凱 張維廖先祥委員現在介紹列席官員交通部陳世凱部長"},{"start":1735.279,"end":1762.955,"text":"路政及盜安司吳東林司長公共運輸及監理司胡迪奇司長會計處黃宏文處長法制處許宏達處長觀光署陳玉秀署長鐵道局楊振軍局長公路局"},{"start":1763.908,"end":1786.39,"text":"林福山局長民航局何淑萍局長中央氣象署呂國成署長運燃所黃欣勳所長航港局葉協榮局長台鐵公司鄭光源董事長"},{"start":1788.84,"end":1815.985,"text":"行政院交通環境資源處圖靜妮參議內政部民政司黃淑黃專門委員戴淑黃不好意思國土管理署國土計畫組檢任視察曾立儀都市計畫組政工程師蔡婉容"},{"start":1821.397,"end":1842.644,"text":"國防部作戰及計畫參謀次次長室作戰整備處吳東達處長文化部文化資產局游英俊專門委員經濟部商業發展署公司登記組蕭旭東組長華澳部謝志敏參事"},{"start":1849.286,"end":1860.548,"text":"司法院行政訴訟及懲戒廳林靜超法官海洋委員會海域安全處黃鵬偉專門委員金管會保險局產險監理組王啟華副組長袁柱銘"},{"start":1874.502,"end":1886.892,"text":"援助民主委員會經濟發展處王瑞銀處長行政院主計總處基金預算處戴群芳專門委員公務預算處曾益聖專門委員"},{"start":1895.711,"end":1918.992,"text":"本日會議進行發展觀光條例修正草案之審查及115年度交通部及所屬單位預算為省郡對桃園鐵路地下化花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化嘉義市區鐵路高架化嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸台南市區鐵路地下化觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及"},{"start":1921.795,"end":1936.008,"text":"各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響專題報告我們現在先請提案委員說明提案要旨首先請洪孟凱召委"},{"start":1946.431,"end":1973.3,"text":"好 主席各位同仁以及我們在場的政府官員感謝本期提案修法發展觀光條例的部分條文其實是在現在台灣觀光正面臨關鍵的轉型期經營形態越來越多元的情況現行法規應該要與時俱進才能落實永續發展跟保障顧客與旅客的權益也因此幾個部分要跟大家緊要說明第一 我們希望能夠讓增進觀光的內涵"},{"start":1975.481,"end":2003.714,"text":"把觀光工廠過去一直都是被經濟部工廠法所下管理但是我們全台灣100多個觀光工廠其實觀光才是重點而能夠讓大家有更進一步的觀光內涵這才是我們希望能夠推廣的一個地方也因此在修法的內容裡面第二條把觀光工廠也納入觀光地區裡面讓中央主管機關能夠來評估同意提供"},{"start":2004.755,"end":2010.134,"text":"觀光旅客來所謂的觀光地區二 落實數位治理"},{"start":2011.141,"end":2036.609,"text":"目前觀光統計資料都散落在各處缺乏明確的法源依據來整理也因此本席提案修正第六條希望民定中央主管機關有權請求提供統計資訊才能夠有完整的數據基礎以做後續的精準行銷把公共服務送到真正需要的地方再來我們提升行政彈性以及整合推廣"},{"start":2037.469,"end":2063.625,"text":"首先針對第十條有兩個部分調整一個是把風景特定區的管理組織修正為機關或是機構符合目前國家級風景區的管理處行政現況另外我們也希望把原有的福島修正為配合推廣觀光絕對不是單打獨鬥透過法規的引導讓各部會能夠有效的整合資源共同打響台灣觀光的品牌"},{"start":2064.125,"end":2080.209,"text":"以及最後是希望能夠保障旅客的權益31條裡面責任保險的部分實務上我們發現理賠往往需要旅行社協助參與提供參團的證明或是事故調查文件但是如果說業者消極的處理"},{"start":2081.21,"end":2104.511,"text":"旅客的理賠往往就會卡住過去也屢屢發生過類似的案例也因此特別增訂第五項明確要求旅行社如果說在觀光事故發生之後三個月內應該要向保險公司提出申請把這一項義務入法不要讓受害的旅客面對意外的時候還要因為程序的繁瑣而苦等不到賠償"},{"start":2105.686,"end":2118.368,"text":"最後本期也要為我們在場的廖縣長委員來再說一下他的增訂66條之一其實也是為我們新北市以及相關地區各縣市如果說有這個觀光"},{"start":2120.223,"end":2142.696,"text":"觀光發展的一個企圖能夠有做永續的基金的一個規劃的時候需要有母法跟子法的一個依據目前各縣市有些地方已經有做這個相關子法但缺乏母法的一個保障還是有摯愛難行之處也因此我們也希望配合不管是新北市不管是各縣市只要有意推動觀光"},{"start":2143.456,"end":2165.957,"text":"有意能夠提升觀光的一個內涵跟精進的話我想中央部會應該也要大力支持中央地方一條心才能共同的讓台灣觀光被世界看見這次的修法是建立更好的產業秩序更建立一個讓旅客安心業者有彈性的觀光環境後續審議的時候我們也希望"},{"start":2166.818,"end":2184.471,"text":"行政部門能夠開誠布公大家一條一條的針對專業來做好好的審查我們希望能夠讓台灣觀光建立更完善的法律基礎以上謝謝謝謝洪孟海召委說明完畢現在請廖先祥委員"},{"start":2196.361,"end":2212.169,"text":"主席 謝謝主席這次本人針對發展觀光條例66條之一提出修法最主要的原因是新北市議會在去年提出了新北市天生知識條例的一個這個法案的擬定那送來中央"},{"start":2213.21,"end":2238.152,"text":"在內政部以及法務部的同仁都認定這樣子的一個裡面自治條例裡面的一個收費他不屬於規費而是屬於特別功課而在特別功課裡面他就必須要有一個母法的一個支持那也就是我今天提出這一次的修訂的一個最主要的一個原因那修法的一個精神就在於大家都知道現在使用者付費大家都越來越有這樣子的一個觀念但是公"},{"start":2239.192,"end":2261.062,"text":"規費跟特別功課的差別在於規費他是一個大水庫的一個理論那特別功課他比較有專款專用的一個性質他能夠針對特別的一個行為來設立一個特別的一個來收入特別的預算來做這個特定的一個支出那也就是說我們在想像一個如果說我們在做公關發展的時候天然發展的時候那他"},{"start":2261.882,"end":2271.891,"text":"勢必大家過去常常提到一些環保或者是人民財產損失的一些問題的時候他可以利用這一筆特別功課的一個基金來做特應的支出而不是說這筆光光的一個發展的費用他後續產生了一些額外的"},{"start":2277.496,"end":2304.801,"text":"這個外部成本是由全體的納稅人用共和的稅收來支應我想這是對於全體的納稅人也有稍微不公平的地方因此這次提出這次的修法那希望說在地方發展觀光的同時地方政府也必須朝永續發展的角度來邁進當我們要永續發展的時候就必須要針對我們的環境或者是產生的第三方這個成本的時候或產生公害的時候政府也要"},{"start":2305.761,"end":2330.659,"text":"專門的預算來應付這些支出那反這次的修法是針對新北市的天然自治條例來提出一個母法的一個支持那當然我相信這樣的一個法令的制定未來不會只有新北市天然自治條例會適用到而是各地的觀光產業都可以因應他們當地因地制宜所產生的一些自己本身發現的問題來訂定自治條例來永續各地方的觀光發展以上好"},{"start":2334.264,"end":2339.411,"text":"謝謝廖先祥委員說明完畢現在請列席機關報告請交通部陳士凱部長報告"},{"start":2351.704,"end":2376.675,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生今天應邀至貴委員會就發展觀光條例草案以及一百一十五年度交通部以及所屬單位預算為省郡對桃園鐵路地下化花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化嘉義市區鐵路高架化嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸台南市區鐵路地下化"},{"start":2377.755,"end":2397.165,"text":"觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫以及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響進行專案報告敬請各位委員指教本部為因應全球永續觀光趨勢以及友善觀光環境強化消費者權益優化觀光產業經營環境以協助"},{"start":2400.947,"end":2418.857,"text":"產業新立健全新興油氣管理並保護生態以及配合相關法令的變遷辦理通盤檢討並且研擬本條例的這個部分修正草案經行政院115年1月8號函請大院審議"},{"start":2422.898,"end":2445.517,"text":"令本部所屬一百一十五年度預算編列一千六百九十四億元各項預算均系配合本部業務推動核實編列為預算到目前為止並未審議新興計畫以及延續計畫新增的部分皆無法執行本次會議委員所關切的延續性計畫"},{"start":2450.421,"end":2465.416,"text":"因為只可以在於上年度的預算執行數或者是當年度的預算編列數兩者相較之下以較低者範圍合值來致用那預算的執行將會有所的局限"},{"start":2466.357,"end":2487.824,"text":"本部一百一十五年度延續性的支出較上年度的支出超過的部分有兩百四十八億目前看起來是無法來執行對於相關的鐵路建設以及觀光業務的推動影響甚巨懇請大院緊速交付審查以利各項工作順利的推動以上兩岸"},{"start":2488.604,"end":2503.109,"text":"我請觀光署陳署長以及本部會計處黃處長就其相關的內容重點向各位委員來報告敬請各位委員會與支持以及指教 謝謝來 請陳玉秀署長"},{"start":2515.437,"end":2534.094,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士 各位先生今天應邀列席貴文會就行政院涵送大院審議的發展觀光條例部分條文的修正草案提出重點報告這次修正的重點包含了因應全球永續觀光趨勢及友善觀光環境"},{"start":2535.035,"end":2552.042,"text":"第二個是強化消費者權益第三個是優化觀光產業經營環境以協助產業的心力第四個是健全新興油氣管理並保護生態最後一個是配合相關法令的變遷總共20條修正了19條 更刪除1條那現行條例 現行大概77條修正後變76條"},{"start":2560.485,"end":2577.654,"text":"那另外是針對蔡維園 蔡其昌委員 賴委員 李昆澤委員還有洪孟凱委員 林慶琦委員跟鄭天才委員等等還有劉委員總共有八案提出本部建議處理的意見也供各位參裁"},{"start":2579.555,"end":2605.703,"text":"接下來是針對第一個項目因應全球永續觀光發展及友善觀光環境總共修正第一條 第六條第一項 第八條第一項及第十條第一條是針對修正我們剛剛上面提到的推展永續觀光友善觀光環境加速國家發展的立法目的第六條第一項是增電的觀光資訊取得的依據第八條是針對於"},{"start":2606.923,"end":2624.501,"text":"在增訂的中央主管機關得與機場及車站設置旅客服務機構及設施第十條是有提到將機構修正為機關跟機構那修正均配合主管機關辦理的觀光宣傳及推廣"},{"start":2625.502,"end":2648.857,"text":"第二个是强化消费者权益这个部分也是明定的旅行业者因与事故发生后三个月内向保险公司申请责任保险理赔那第43条第一款资历旅行业之保证金有备行政执行机关扣押或执行情势可由中央机关公告之"},{"start":2649.677,"end":2671.291,"text":"那第三大項是優化觀光產業經營環境以協助產業新力那修正第二條第11款第33條第42條第一項第48條第66條那在第二條第11款因觀光遊樂業經營型態之多元創新所以我們增列了及相關服務項目"},{"start":2672.652,"end":2694.328,"text":"第33條第66條也因為旅行業經營模式已經改變所以我們希望引進多元的人才需求刪除了旅行業經理人資格限制回歸到公司治理第42條第一項是簡化了暫停營業這行政程序第48條是增列旅行業為觀光產業優惠貸款的對象"},{"start":2698.427,"end":2718.055,"text":"第四大項是健全新興油氣管理並保護生態修正第63條、64條那63條是增列風景區或觀光地區內擅自放置器具並提高違規行為的法源並增列了清除跟沒入"},{"start":2719.298,"end":2742.912,"text":"那第六四條是增進風險區內跟觀光地區內其他動力的器具那比如說像沙灘車等動力並提高其違規的行為之法則那第五大項調合相關法規及完備法制修正的第十一條第二項第二十八條第四十七條五十八條六十九條第七十條並刪除第二十條"},{"start":2744.073,"end":2760.099,"text":"那這個部分的第11條第2項第47條呢都是增訂適用國土計畫法相關規定22條呢是針對已經古蹟有文化資產保存法所以不需要重複的規範的必要所以願意刪除第28條呢是"},{"start":2763.6,"end":2782.308,"text":"就是配合公司法已經廢除外國公司許可制度全部修正為外國旅行業者在我國事例分公司或辦事處的相關規定那第58條是將本條例授權訂定相關法規的依據予以明定"},{"start":2783.408,"end":2799.502,"text":"那第69條是因為是過度條款已於申請期限並且無保留的必要所以刪除第70條是為確保觀光旅館公共安全所以應依觀光旅館建築及設備標準辦理"},{"start":2801.724,"end":2824.385,"text":"那接下來報告有關委員們提案的修正重點及本部建議處理的意見那第一個是針對洪孟楷委員等二十人針對觀光工廠那剛剛特別委員特別提到那因為觀光工廠呢雖然是觀光的附加服務那但是因為他從事的還是屬於生產製造及加工本質是工廠"},{"start":2825.246,"end":2853.667,"text":"那經由是由經濟部依工廠管理輔導法來管理那管理權責的就是避免跌床駕屋所以我們希望管理權責還是在經濟部那這個部分一旦立法是在技術上面恐掛一漏萬那我們現在目前就是依照觀光地區基本上它還是有它的明定範圍所以我們是認為說不需要再額外列舉觀光工廠的必要"},{"start":2854.247,"end":2874.254,"text":"那現在目前觀光署跟經濟部也密切的合作整合觀光的資源像我們這個月也剛公佈的是像AO像AI小幫手或者是我們行動旅服都已經把觀光工廠都納入未來也可以一起做整合的行銷所以這個部分我們建議是維持現在的條文"},{"start":2875.074,"end":2900.676,"text":"那第二個是有關鄭天才委員提出來的將原住民保留地及山地管制區得以化設自然人文生態景觀地區刪除那我們考量到原住民的保留地山地管制區已經涵蓋了應受保護之自然動物動植物生態環境及重要史前的遺跡"},{"start":2902.077,"end":2911.511,"text":"那有化射自然人文景觀的必要例如像霧台自然人文生態景觀區所以本部建議是維持現行的條文"},{"start":2914.642,"end":2942.416,"text":"第三個提案是賴委員這邊的提案修正觀光工廠定義及刪除觀光旅館等級的區分那這個部分我們考量外界的觀感不要讓台灣就是讓外界覺得台灣不再有國際級的景觀所以修法後對現有業者的影響那我們建議維持國際觀光旅館跟一般觀光旅館的類別其實是較為妥適所以我們覺得不需要再"},{"start":2943.196,"end":2971.199,"text":"無需將觀光旅館建築及設備標準納入要件原以第21條第23條均無修正的必要建議維持現行的條文那第4個是牛西廷委員的提案旅宿訂房平台的服務業那旅宿訂房平台就是代定像OTA平台那針對主計總處行業統計分析它是屬於支援服務業"},{"start":2972.24,"end":2993.619,"text":"旅行及相关服务业设本条例属于旅行业的范畴那且国内的订房平台都已经依照公司法登记并领有旅行业营业执照所以本部也建议维持现行的条文那蔡企专委员呢等19人提案是增"},{"start":2994.52,"end":3019.316,"text":"新增第三條第二項本條例試射跨部會的權責實質處理方式那有助落實觀光主流化本部原則同意也尊重了委員審議的結果第六個是蔡啟昌等19名委員還有像賴委員20名就是多數委員都有提到這個部分有關中央主管機關的權責"},{"start":3020.977,"end":3044.429,"text":"那本條府經大院委員提案修正也已經在114年度4月2號修正公佈且交通部觀光署組織法已經明令觀光署全責本部也建議維持現行的條文那第七個是李昆澤委員等18人提案的項目就是有關行政院召開觀光產業發展匯報"},{"start":3047.69,"end":3058.458,"text":"那這個部分現在目前由行政院觀光產業振興諮詢會已經具備了跨部會的協調功能那目前有行政院副院長或者是政務員層級專責督導並協調各部會推動觀光相關的業務那我們也"},{"start":3064.842,"end":3091.954,"text":"已經有符合彈性政府跟組織精簡的現代治理的原則本部也建議無需要增訂最後一個是有關賴委員的第八個是賴委員提案有關旅行業一線請求事故責任保險給付的義務那委員基本上都是站在提升消費者權益之保護目的是一致的"},{"start":3094.426,"end":3116.907,"text":"所以這個部分我們盡量避免 就是請求全人於事故發生三個月後 使得直接向保險人請求保險給付之誤解所以原則上支持鄭委員的提案 那尊重委員的審議結果第九個是有關牛錫廷委員提案的是有關"},{"start":3120.976,"end":3138.633,"text":"旅宿资讯揭露义务及涨价比例那现行的法规已经有规范的旅宿业资讯揭露的义务已经明载了旅行旅馆业民宿之就是说目前他们都必须要载明旅行旅馆业跟民宿之登记的"},{"start":3140.094,"end":3168.568,"text":"正號編號那第二個呢是有關因為房價客房的房價須報請主管機關備查那業者報備的最高主管的公告價公告價呢在臺灣的旅宿網提供消費者查詢所以明年旅宿業收取房價不得高於備查的房價那為者可以可以處處罰一萬到五萬元所以眾上所述我們也建議說無需要再增訂"},{"start":3169.568,"end":3196.282,"text":"那第十項是由賴委員等二三人提案的是提高違規行為的罰原額度那這是屬於共通性的罰則那我們認為說違反本條之裁罰案件極為少數所以在實務的管理上並沒有看到困難或者是不足之處也符合責罰相當的原則所以本部建議維持現行的條文"},{"start":3198.323,"end":3211.182,"text":"那第十一條是牛委員 西庭等十六人提案的部分也是希望提高違規行為的法源額度那這個也是屬於共通性的法則"},{"start":3213.28,"end":3231.116,"text":"所以我們也看到說目前觀點上也比較沒有看到任何的困難或者是不足的地方所以如果以原最高的法則修正為修正後最低的法則可能有比例原則跟責罰相當的原則所以我們也是建議維持現行的條文"},{"start":3233.758,"end":3248.554,"text":"那廖先祥委員提案的有關在特定觀光活動或相關業者徵收觀光永續發展費並設立基金的法源依據那這個部分是希望增訂的觀光永續發展費"},{"start":3250.916,"end":3268.73,"text":"此在落實法原並落實觀光活動使用者付費其性質應屬規範法之使用規範現行法規也可以原引本條所規定的觀光活動因為比較沒有很明確的定義"},{"start":3269.631,"end":3290.802,"text":"比如說包含未來有可能像體育、宗教、生態活動跟文化活動都可能包含在內那如果說這個部分由交通部統一研議徵收管理的事宜難以因應多元的活動需求其亦跟目前各機關有的規費跟特別功課規範產生漢格甚至引發地方政府觀光活動"},{"start":3292.003,"end":3306.34,"text":"為民任意納入課費的徵印所以令本條永續觀光永續發展費呢用途基本上也包含了自然生態與環境的保育文化資產保存公共"},{"start":3307.981,"end":3327.031,"text":"公共安全的維護已經超過本條例的規範的範疇所以依照本條例授權地方政府訂定自治條例恐怕有逾越謀法的之餘所以依政策目的與地方現況因地制於訂定規範"},{"start":3328.312,"end":3345.73,"text":"我們認為還是比較允當那希望建議說不要 無需增訂那最後一個是賴委員提出來的有關觀光遊樂業設施之過渡條款那因為過渡條款的期限已經也過了所以本部原則上同意綜商說明"},{"start":3348.303,"end":3375.37,"text":"綜上說明行政院版本提出來的修正草案已經因應了永續觀光發展條例也藉此營造我們友善的觀光環境將永續觀光跟友善觀光環境納入那希望就此這個部分可以優化整個觀光產業的環境跟鬆綁心力的措施以達成2030年觀光產業兆元產值公政策的目標"},{"start":3377.391,"end":3393.281,"text":"以上請各位予以支持那也委員提出來的部分都是為了觀光產業發展有正向的政策目標那也非常感謝委員們的提案那以上僅就本部建議處理的建議呢也請委員們多採納 謝謝陳署長報告完畢現在請會計處黃處長"},{"start":3406.812,"end":3419.911,"text":"主席 各位委員先生女士 那個本次會議委員所關切的營運計畫 因為僅能在上年度預算執行數或者是當年度預算編列數較低者的範圍內核實之用"},{"start":3421.934,"end":3438.507,"text":"所以對我們相關的鐵路建設觀光業務推動產生重大的影響重點說明如下 意義是鐵道局的鐵道及捷運建設計畫115年度預算較上年度增加134億元主要是因桃園鐵路地下化 花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化"},{"start":3440.529,"end":3467.214,"text":"嘉義市區鐵路高架化及台南市區鐵路地下化等各項建設已進入工程施作高峰期且嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸建設亦陸續辦理工程發包施工 其需一約撥付各項工程款項 依然未能完成審議導致工程款項無法正常撥付嚴重影響後續工程施工及計畫延遲"},{"start":3468.954,"end":3484.296,"text":"尤其是已經施作的高風險工項 包括地下結構開挖 延續壁橋樑軌道曲線及基樁改善林軌側 擋土牆等工程恐因未能接續 衍生嚴重結構安全及施工品質疑慮"},{"start":3485.697,"end":3501.926,"text":"亦有違約私信與廠商 治理約正義等情形 影響企業推動 二 觀光署觀光雙輪驅動方案 本方案115年度編列35億元 旨在透過政策性引導擴大國旅及國際旅客來台市場 以帶動"},{"start":3503.227,"end":3517.339,"text":"內需市場及相關產業商機若未能如期115年及早啟動恐錯失活絡觀光市場之契機進而無法有效帶動旅宿餐飲及零售等相關成業發展"},{"start":3518.38,"end":3543.432,"text":"除外地方經濟活絡及削弱臺灣觀光產業國際競爭力3 本部對台鐵公司營運及安全改善協助115年度預算較上年度編列增加64億元主要是其為持續推協助台鐵公司強化安全作為辦理撥補台鐵營運虧損及提升行車安全作為之補貼台鐵積極支線基礎設施改善計畫"},{"start":3547.054,"end":3560.109,"text":"高鐵暫化站及台鐵轉成接駁計畫高雄機場潮州基地二期工程建設計畫及台鐵軌道結構安全提升計畫等預算未能完成審議將影響工程履約進度及計畫約定目標"},{"start":3562.711,"end":3579.839,"text":"而且恐造成台鐵財務負擔 進而影響行車安全及旅客服務品質本部115年度各項預算 據那實際業務需求核實編列 攸關施政延續性及計畫如期執行 懇請大院盡速交付審查 必力各項工作順利推動 謝謝其餘機關"},{"start":3590.615,"end":3613.494,"text":"所送書面報告均列入記錄 刊登公報現在開始進行詢答初期委員8分鐘 列席委員6分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止各委員如有臨時提案 請於10點前提出"},{"start":3614.642,"end":3625.039,"text":"以便醫事人員會診暫定10點30分休息10分鐘現在請登記第一位洪孟楷召委發言"},{"start":3640.094,"end":3642.279,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請陳部長還有我們觀光署陳署長請陳部長及陳署長"},{"start":3653.682,"end":3669.948,"text":"部長好部長本席開宗明義先強調我認為說全台灣大家交通建設都應該要建立生活圈讓交通更方便這是我們共同目標交通沒有最好只有更好但是現在本席看到跟"},{"start":3671.144,"end":3699.458,"text":"交通部長跟前任部長我們賀承鄧部長也報導直接寫說前交長槓現任那期待公開的討論我不知道說這個陳部長你有沒有感覺到跟前任的部長有這個對槓隔空對槓的感覺完全沒這個感覺完全沒有但我感覺你們沒有在聚焦因為賀承鄧前部長他講的是所謂宜蘭高鐵的一個部分那也講到是說其實現在的鐵道局並沒有把"},{"start":3699.978,"end":3725.298,"text":"所謂的宜蘭直鐵台鐵的一個規劃納入這個評估考量所以可行性評估會變成是一個很龐大的一個建設但是可能偉大甩不掉而且並沒有辦法解決宜蘭人通勤或者是說往返台北的需求那不要說前部長跟現任部長互槓張景深前政委他在他的臉書你有沒有看"},{"start":3726.324,"end":3750.596,"text":"我沒有仔細看到你沒有看到臉書但是行政院院長說他每一篇的臉書都有看所以很顯然我們部長比院長還要更公務繁忙不過這也不是重點重點在於是說行政院院長就講是說我沒有加他好友所以你沒有加好友那沒有問題但是行政院院長講是說他都把張景深政委的意見轉達給我們交通部部長陳士凱"},{"start":3752.037,"end":3765.979,"text":"那來 請教一下現在既然院長也已經交辦給你了那賀成旦直接在不是 張景生直接在他的臉書上講說宜蘭高鐵會是史詩級災難四千億解決不了交通問題"},{"start":3767.045,"end":3783.151,"text":"部長怎麼回應報告委員其實高鐵跟紙鐵的這個議題紙鐵的議題已經討論差不多有一二十年的時間並不是說這個議題沒有拿出來討論我想賀成部長應該也相當的清楚因為我現在在問張景生張景生說史詩級災難並且張景生講說民進黨的高官們都紛紛私下跟他講說"},{"start":3790.334,"end":3812.683,"text":"張謹申政委你說的對宜蘭高鐵不可行我不曉得是哪些高官們跟他說但是當時在決定從直鐵轉換為高鐵的過程當中張謹申前政委當時長期在行政院擔任政務委員他應該也很清楚整個過程為什麼他會說他不了解這個我就不曉得不是 他沒有說他不了解他直接講說這是史詩級災難"},{"start":3814.986,"end":3831.063,"text":"所以現在是怎樣在民進黨政府裡面當官的人都不能講真話那辭官之後退休了無事一聲清就可以真話就滿天飛包委員我覺得鐵路的建設包含您很關心的您選區裡面的一些輕軌建設等等這些都是很專業的討論"},{"start":3832.304,"end":3852.304,"text":"我相信專業啊所以我現在才想請教張景生也好或是說前交通部長賀承旦也好現在都講出來說認為說這是不可行沒有辦法解決問題我開宗明義講是說我們全台各縣市的人都有資格有最好的交通品質但是怎麼樣做那現在就變成是說"},{"start":3853.385,"end":3878.04,"text":"大家認為是花了四千億沒有辦法解決問題而且甚至連民進黨的宜蘭縣長候選人在他臉書上貼說要支持宜蘭高鐵下面都有很多支持者講啊都在臉書上講是說他支持他我是民進黨支持者但是我反對宜蘭高鐵那就代表是說政府的決策跟現在宜蘭人的想法訴求可能是有落差的啊"},{"start":3878.828,"end":3901.218,"text":"來 部長我所看到的宜蘭縣議會大部分的民意代表其實是支持宜蘭高鐵的方案宜蘭的立法委員也表達過他支持宜蘭高鐵的方案甚至宜蘭縣政府其實也有表達過他們支持宜蘭高鐵的方案所以前交通部長賀承旦的聲音或是前政委張景深的聲音"},{"start":3902.435,"end":3928.25,"text":"他們不重要還是說他們就不夠專業他們的聲音我們都很重視他們也都在政府部門做過事所以應該很清楚政府部門在做這些決策的過程當中有很嚴謹而且專業的討論過程就是因為這樣所以說本席才好奇說為什麼會有那麼大的落差來 不好意思那個鄭董事長台鐵鄭董事長我知道因為您之前這個腳受傷特別請教不過我就請教您一個專業的問題因為我覺得在現場您真的很有資格發個言"},{"start":3933.199,"end":3941.357,"text":"過去您是高鐵的董事長現在是台鐵的董事長本席不是要給你陷阱題您放心但是本席很認真的要請教"},{"start":3942.522,"end":3963.279,"text":"過去高鐵評估說所謂的宜蘭高鐵或是說現在有人講是說如果宜蘭可以直鐵讓台鐵用新的自強號普悠瑪或是更好的這個列車來服務能夠有比較低的成本但是能夠快速的服務讓宜蘭人能夠也有很快速整點多班次的一個交通工具"},{"start":3964.127,"end":3980.91,"text":"您覺得哪一個方案會是你站在有擔任過高鐵董事長跟台鐵董事長兩個評估那你現在台鐵董事長您覺得咧有沒有再更重啟或是討論的空間而不是像現在一味的就講說不管什麼聲音我就是高鐵我就是要硬幹到底"},{"start":3981.496,"end":4002.344,"text":"我覺得目前的這個規劃的方向應該是我是贊成的就是說高鐵 讓高鐵直接到宜蘭去這樣的話呢整個我們高鐵目前的這個好的品質啊這個一路呢到這個宜蘭那鄭董事長有沒有聽到前政委張景生在他臉書上直接講說如果說高鐵到宜蘭會是史詩級災難"},{"start":4003.649,"end":4026.966,"text":"我有聽說但是我沒有很詳細去了解他講的那您認同這個話嗎至少我目前看來是這個我不認同這樣一個講法你不認同 來 部長所以現在就變成是一個非常大的落差因為張景深政委他直接在臉書上講他講說給行政院院長了然後行政院院長也說交辦給你了"},{"start":4027.466,"end":4054.048,"text":"然後馬政委也講說你不要再賴了院長都有看到那甚至講說這個民進黨的高官們每一個人都支持那為什麼會有這樣的落差民眾的感受我不曉得哪些高官們支持哪些高官因為你那天那個婚禮沒有去對不對看起來那個婚禮是你沒有去不然可能張景深就直接跟你討論了我不曉得他所說的依據如果張景深政委可以再明確一點說哪些人是反對高鐵"},{"start":4054.989,"end":4076.67,"text":"宜蘭案我覺得或許可以再來討論但他沒有講得很清楚這我不曉得他所謂的史詩級的災難我想是不是史詩級的災難這個有點形容詞啦這是形容詞再來針對他所說的那個內容我看報導的說法一 他所說的金額很像說錯了不是4000億是3500多億"},{"start":4079.773,"end":4100.478,"text":"第二他的公里數也說錯了他說只有40公里其實是60公里我不曉得他所說的依據是什麼但我建議因為交通是很專業的討論跟評估政府不會亂花錢就是因為交通是專業的討論跟評估所以才會看到說本席才會看到說連民進黨任內"},{"start":4101.798,"end":4124.822,"text":"的高官不管是政委或是交通部長曾經擔任都會跳出來反對那就代表說這樣子一個討論其實是連民進黨內部都沒有辦法說服自己的那如果說連民進黨政府過去擔任高官的人都沒有辦法說服自己你很難能夠讓人民放心是說這樣子的一個工程會不會能夠達到你原本預計的效果"},{"start":4125.382,"end":4150.15,"text":"我想這就是現在的癥結點報告員這其實經過了最後當然還是要交通部來去做一個拍板或說你們做出的不管可行性評估綜合規劃等等來後續的研議但更重要的是為什麼會現在一個建設出來之後反而會讓很多人而且重點我一直強調這一些並不是在野黨他們過去都是你在擔任民進黨政府時候的高官來"},{"start":4153.154,"end":4182.099,"text":"因為今天還是要討論觀光我還是就叫一下觀光來兩位這個局長跟董事長可以先請回來觀光署署長本席在三個月前討論交通委員會的時候討論我們所謂觀光逆差那時候我就已經有提醒過就今年看起來有可能會突破觀光逆差破千萬那那個時候我也一直一而再再提醒是說你的觀光報告真的不要粉飾太平要看到我們現在的問題"},{"start":4183.325,"end":4198.113,"text":"但很顯然的我覺得現在跟民眾感受差很多我就先救教一下我們在這一次公佈出來所謂的這個觀光國旅的產值2024因為現在我們只有統計到2024年113年對不對國旅產值我們現在全年有多少"},{"start":4209.966,"end":4225.323,"text":"目前 全年觀光署的非常華麗的報告華麗的數據5158這是對 5158億這是1月到9月的部分113年是5158 對113年5158億多少人次 多少旅次"},{"start":4238.519,"end":4256.672,"text":"2.2 2.2 2.2億2.2億屢次怎麼算的國人會很訝異啊因為你講是說這個產值跟屢次都屢創新高比疫情前都還要好那國人就會好奇啊明明跟我們大家的感受不一樣國屢感覺是比較冷門國屢是相對來講比較弱勢而且現在觀光利差破千萬那你怎麼算出來說有2.2億屢次屢次怎麼算的"},{"start":4260.715,"end":4286.064,"text":"這個因為長時間的調查所以我是不是請我們企劃組組長來跟大家說明因為那個真的很認識你的定義是什麼署長你真的對你的業務沒有那麼的純熟我只能這樣講你的屢次是個人為了觀光休閒商務等目的到從日常生活地點到外地活動再返回原地算一次完整的旅程這叫屢次"},{"start":4287.478,"end":4296.369,"text":"所以你把觀光 休閒 商務等相關活動都變成履次那這樣就是會灌水你知道嗎"},{"start":4299.308,"end":4314.816,"text":"來 我們今天的部會我知道有一些部會都是外縣市對不對你今天外縣市的部會來立法院開會今天開完會之後再回你外縣市你也被觀光產值你也被觀光產值納入一個屢次這個是依照國際的統計標準而且是歷年來都是這樣子統計不是到現在才這樣統計部長 之前並沒有這樣統計"},{"start":4327.863,"end":4340.727,"text":"屢次是你們為了要現在部長 真的之前你沒有刻意去講這樣的一個數據你也沒有講這樣的一個產值其實數據都有只是有沒有被凸顯出來部長"},{"start":4344.588,"end":4372.271,"text":"部長 本席就是因為非常重視所以我才會說看到這樣的一個數字是不是我請觀光署 您說過去沒有這樣的我請觀光署提出過去10年的數據給委員部長本席就是因為很重視這樣的數據而且重點在於是你的觀光逆差那個時候我們就提到了就是說不要美化國旅的數字國旅現在有很多的問題但是它不能寫假的啊當然不能寫假的但是你也不能去美化數據你也不能去"},{"start":4373.092,"end":4394.509,"text":"你也不能去講是說部長你今天部長本席現在最重要在於是當國人大家都覺得是說我們的觀光有很大的問題我們都要努力的時候當我們觀光署居然拿出一個數據講是說這個是一個比疫情前還要好的一個數據五千多億全國華然啊"},{"start":4395.55,"end":4416.138,"text":"結果講是說我們什麼時候我們的國內觀光可以到五千多億然後就有兩億多次的屢次數據是依據事實不是依據感覺數據是依據事實所以我可以請觀光署提出過去十年的數據就是因為依據事實本席才要在這邊再提出來就是說這絕對不是一個觀光的屢次嘛"},{"start":4417.15,"end":4432.681,"text":"今天所有部會上來開會都可以算一個履次然後結果我們來我再請教平均每人消費多少錢2323元你的第一名是誰你的第一名是什麼項目餐飲"},{"start":4439.827,"end":4455.716,"text":"你第一名花費在餐飲最多第二名花費在交通最多那不就是一樣嗎你今天國人我所有我就不要講其他就部會首長來到立法院開會都可以算一個履次然後你部會首長來立法院吃便當也可以算成是我們觀光產值"},{"start":4456.576,"end":4483.166,"text":"報告委員觀光產值當然有五千多億但是有多少根本就是國人日常生活這個是主計總署所核定的這就是日常生活這根本就不是旅行產值過去到現在為止一直都是這麼統計方式部長如果說你真的要這樣講的話那我就必須要跟你很直接的講就是說這樣子的一個計算方法跟我們國人以及跟你所謂的觀光就完全落差太大這個我們可以來討論委員如果有更好的計算方法"},{"start":4487.01,"end":4514.481,"text":"連部會首長來立法院開會吃個便當都可以算到觀光產值的時候那我們到底我們的觀光可以有多少產量這才是重點啊你會覺得無奈本席更無奈國內的旅客更無奈國內的旅行社更無奈所有的民眾都覺得是說當我們的國旅已經變成是低迷的時候沒想到我們觀光署給我們的一個公開數據是五千多億創新高"},{"start":4516.246,"end":4544.191,"text":"那生活在什麼地方啊平清時空所以我本席才會講是說我們要針對問題我們要針對問題來解決問題並不是美化數字是 沒有錯 這個我接受謝謝謝謝委員謝謝侯孟凱 昭緯交通委員會是史詩級的委員會都會讓委員充分的一個發言那我們接下來請林國成委員發言"},{"start":4553.627,"end":4561.572,"text":"謝謝主席來請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長那個鐵道局我們楊局長鐵道局楊振軍局長委員好部長 局長大家早他都知道了你們辛苦一下因為我們今天確實對於軌道的政策也提出一個專案報告"},{"start":4582.475,"end":4610.684,"text":"可是當然因為我也列之一二確實過去鐵道的預算是多的可是這幾年下來是下降的那當然在這裡報告我也不是針對這些指定專案報告的這整個鐵路但是比較敏感從這半個月以來"},{"start":4612.086,"end":4633.497,"text":"為了高鐵宜蘭站也就是我們過去張景生前政委他提出非常之多的這些批判當然他個人有個人的看法他也算一個專家我們也要尊重他但是我個人覺得"},{"start":4636.533,"end":4660.603,"text":"交通建設不能依照經濟效益而來斷定做跟不做但是沒有辦法現在風風雨雨不管是媒體不管是當地不管是團體都反對這件事情第一我要請教部長兩個問題第一個你對這件事情"},{"start":4665.689,"end":4694.965,"text":"既然強烈這麼反對部長你有什麼看法報告委員強烈的反對我覺得這都是形容詞那多強烈我覺得要有科學的評估我們其實有做過民調剛剛洪孟愷委員在問的時候我有回答過我們在宜蘭縣議會幾乎看到大部分絕大多數的議員們都是支持的宜蘭的立法委員也是支持的宜蘭的縣政府"},{"start":4695.365,"end":4714.317,"text":"也有表達過他們也是支持的這是第一點第二點我剛才講說反對的感覺要有科學的數據所以我們有做過民調我們目前宜蘭的相信我們做民調支持宜蘭高鐵延伸到宜蘭的有79.5%是支持的那反對的數據可能蠻低的反對當然啦正反雙方都有"},{"start":4721.761,"end":4750.417,"text":"可是據我了解宜蘭地區確實包括老百姓包括政府機關甚至於都把本來97公頃都把它擴大甚至於整個篆圍鄉他們都蠻希望化為交通用地這是事實因為我考察過地方民群我了解所以基本上現在已經建在弦上"},{"start":4753.146,"end":4766.954,"text":"請問現在張景深政委他說是不是請你們做公投你的看法部長做公投報告委員公投這件事不太可能由交通部來發動"},{"start":4769.264,"end":4795.524,"text":"他們要做這些公投你同不同意你同不同意我們已經有做過民調了對我們做過的是民調嘛他現在要發起公投要不要見公投是人民的權利我們都尊重你尊重我們都尊重但是你不覺得這個公投做下去對我們整個交通建設的會耽擱嗎你不擔心嗎"},{"start":4796.665,"end":4818.115,"text":"我們還是希望啦因為很多的民眾是期待交通建設要發展那我們還是期待說交通建設可以趕快來進行是所有民眾所期待的所以你對公投同不同意嗎或者你認為民調就可以顯現出來公投我沒有辦法同意或不同意我們會尊重會尊重 好"},{"start":4820.149,"end":4832.903,"text":"那個 楊局長可以請回來我們陳署長來 觀光署陳署長來 我也要拜託我們那個觀光署啊幕僚單位也提供資料給署長喔"},{"start":4836.475,"end":4855.005,"text":"來 我們今天最主要是觀光那部長我一向不太贊同就是為了捍衛你們的做法而在那邊跟立委在那邊有所爭議這一點我是滿反對的"},{"start":4856.465,"end":4881.761,"text":"立法委員是有意見下情上達然後轉印給決策單位來做觀光政策如何去補足不滿這個不足的地方所以部長我還是建議這裡面當然數據你難怪我們立法院的同仁在質疑這些觀光我舉個例子"},{"start":4882.481,"end":4888.561,"text":"你們現在美麗的數據完全不能反映到"},{"start":4889.548,"end":4893.65,"text":"這個產業是七產的產喔產業的這種感覺我幾例專門辦國禮也得到我們觀光署所表揚的這些禮行業他都關門了耶 部長他都關門了報章雜誌在報導 禮行社"},{"start":4918.23,"end":4944.089,"text":"辦國禮的已經有46家關門了那請問一下既然數據這麼好為什麼他要關門就是因為我們統計的數據雖然過去是這樣統計但是事實上是有所出入的有所出入所以我還是要建議部長因為我也知道你不能管得這麼細"},{"start":4946.102,"end":4960.044,"text":"觀光署當然就要為以籌謀如何檢討改進去符合人民所需要業者所需要這些才有意義那剛才重點就是這樣嘛"},{"start":4961.826,"end":4981.357,"text":"我說實在你不能灌水的政策達到美麗的數據這一點我是很懷疑的報告委員數據一定不會灌水一定灌水啦報告委員數據一定不會灌水在國會殿堂我不要跟你去狡辯私底下我才告訴你們如何去灌水"},{"start":4982.017,"end":5003.685,"text":"我相信這個數據不是部長不是署長但是底下的人說實在的不能這樣灌水有沒有灌水不要爭議但事實上我剛才已經講了業者可以馬上反映我幾例啊像我屏東我們恆春"},{"start":5005.383,"end":5013.242,"text":"他們一年過去是四百萬五百萬現在一年不到兩百萬今年只有兩百零幾萬"},{"start":5014.926,"end":5043.304,"text":"明年他們在擔心他們現在所有的賣場根本幾乎八成都關門大吉不定我相信你是管政策你不會管這麼細節的東西但是署長你要監督這些我還是要建議每一個縣市都有它的觀光產值跟觀光特色"},{"start":5044.224,"end":5065.72,"text":"你們要針對一個縣市一個縣市把它的特色像我們新北 九份它有貴的很好吃你們要不要去辦這些讓人家有一個景點式特色去做促銷這些你要去做啊可是到現在為止"},{"start":5066.857,"end":5072.531,"text":"為止我只有看到美麗的數據從來沒有看到我們因應對策"},{"start":5074.795,"end":5102.134,"text":"我要拜託你針對觀光的問題不是數據啦而是實際不是數據你們的數據都很漂亮啊你們過去就是因為這是錯誤的數據才會導致現在觀光產業慘到不能慘的一個地步所以這個部分真的部長我用心良苦啊"},{"start":5104.397,"end":5129.498,"text":"特別建議你在政策方面好好檢討一下要針對產業發展不要只有美麗的數據而是美麗的業績這是最重要的一點所以我也要拜託我們一向我對於部長對於有心的做法我真的"},{"start":5130.58,"end":5148.348,"text":"敬佩之宜我還要你用政策的力量支持觀光署把它真正不要美麗的數據啦要美麗的業績這才是真正替老百姓把觀光創業去把它做好所以部長這一點"},{"start":5150.009,"end":5177.551,"text":"我提出這些讓你做參考我也希望你能夠在政策方面好好檢討一下不要說沒有灌水我只指責這些沒有意義可是我敢保證所有數據不是署長不是你但是底下給你的數據不完全正確在我們民意代表看到業者的慘淡跟他們的心聲不得不在國會讓我們"},{"start":5179.966,"end":5205.447,"text":"交通部的陳部長能夠了解所以這一點我要建議部長針對這個事情下去做檢討跟改進好不好好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝林國成委員林國成委員這一年來是我們交通委員會的同學他即將要畢業我們給林同學掌聲的一個鼓勵"},{"start":5219.953,"end":5235.056,"text":"謝謝林國成委員現在請許智傑委員發言謝謝主席我們先請部長請陳部長"},{"start":5243.752,"end":5260.771,"text":"委員好部長好我想先謝謝昨天部長特地到我們高雄我們高鐵現在也進步很多部長什麼時候高雄到台北的高鐵直達不是 我是說直達車"},{"start":5263.624,"end":5290.318,"text":"大概二月二號是不是很像二月二號所以二月下個月下個月就可以有高雄到高鐵對 會有直達車會有直達車直接就沒停台中了總共有四班沒有中停台中直接到高雄直接台北高雄所以這個是對我們高雄是很好的不中停台中但是有到台南跟高雄所以對台南跟高雄的鄉親來說是相當好的"},{"start":5292.395,"end":5308.537,"text":"直達台南跟高雄2月2號開始調整那也快了吧所以下禮拜我們就看得到了希望說這個可以跟大家公布一下這對我們高雄跟台南都是很好的事情我想這個對"},{"start":5310.7,"end":5331.916,"text":"我們會特別的歡迎所以這個希望說能夠再宣傳一下讓我們大家知道好 那其實針對剛剛林國成委員所提到的我有一點不一樣的意見也希望說跟大家分享事實上台灣進步很多我們應該好的要鼓勵當然我們不好的要檢討"},{"start":5333.4,"end":5358.793,"text":"所以你看台灣現在的高評 台灣的經濟GDP其實都進步很多我們應該往好的方向去看去加強 誇獎我們台灣進步的地方那當然其實我們也希望說不管是行政院還是我們交通部 觀光署等等的相關的單位事實上台灣當然存在著貧富差距的問題那應該怎麼樣去幫助弱勢"},{"start":5360.522,"end":5388.983,"text":"那把這個弱勢再提升我想這個部分是我們做不夠要再繼續加強的那就拿觀光來講就是說那個觀光署長可以一起就拿觀光來講就是說我們以桃園機場跟高雄機場你可以看到其實桃園機場幾乎都飽和啦那我們如果說觀光署的角度用這個二線機場的宣傳所以你可以看到那個"},{"start":5392.842,"end":5415.245,"text":"其他韓國 韓國其實他們我覺得他們有很多東西可以參考著我們看怎麼樣去做因為觀光公社其實很多元 很活潑你包括到各地去分散比如說他們還強化他們的二線城市的行銷包括金海 青州 大邱等那你再看那個"},{"start":5419.134,"end":5444.746,"text":"這個除了這個機場之外你可以看到他們所辦的在高雄所辦的活動高雄所辦的活動你看他們在高雄舉辦下酒祭就是推廣韓國的飲食文化那包括文化大使到我們那個展覽到我們的高雄的博鱷那包括我們其實有很多他們到高雄去也會推很多這個"},{"start":5446.644,"end":5466.389,"text":"釜山、大邱、光州、青山南北道等所以他們其實這個韓國觀光公社我特別去參觀了一下我那個去參觀的照片我還特別去參觀了一下他們的觀光公社所辦的活動其實真的是很多元"},{"start":5467.985,"end":5492.899,"text":"所以我在建議說觀光署事實上我們從觀光局變成觀光署當時崑澤委員跟我們交通委員外的委員也花了很大的力氣希望把觀光局變成觀光署就是提高格局包括人事權包括經費權都能夠提高格局但是呢我們覺得提高之後的變化現在讓我們感受沒那麼大"},{"start":5493.82,"end":5518.487,"text":"就是那個觀光局跟觀光署之間的變化事實上它可以多做很多的事情那這個觀光公社的概念我希望說觀光署可以再了解一下思考一下那再來就是飛機飛機事實上我們也希望說這個看起來不見得是觀光署在處理但是呢其實這都跟觀光有很大的關係"},{"start":5520.523,"end":5542.819,"text":"我記得之前兩位我們的部長跟署長都還不再指的前任的啦當時我一直在說布拉格希望能夠直飛這是桃園機場飛布拉格當時的部長跟署長都說不可能都說不可能但是我一直覺得東歐的市場"},{"start":5544.345,"end":5566.907,"text":"其實現在東歐因為他跟台灣有很不一樣的感情就他們也接受過共產主義的那個蹂躪然後呢他們現在變成民主國家之後他們也在發展經濟那他們對台灣的高科技台積電跟台灣的經濟的發展又蠻嚮往的"},{"start":5569.935,"end":5598.816,"text":"所以現在東歐其實對台灣的重視程度我覺得我去東歐國會考察他們真的非常非常的友善所以當時我就判斷說布拉格應該是很有機會那後來開飛之後部長也知道成績大概都是九成以上所以這個載客率很高那我們觀光署現在有設辦事處的在歐洲就是"},{"start":5599.901,"end":5601.766,"text":"有哪幾個國家 部長知道嗎"},{"start":5605.99,"end":5634.759,"text":"法蘭克福跟倫敦都有那剛剛委員特別提到的那個捷克那我們法蘭克福辦事處呢3月份的大旅展結束之後就會往東歐走了也看到了我們這次的直航很感謝委員的一直持續的支持跟那個我們現在看到的就是東我想到的是東歐北中東南都要去思考了你看新宇其實他們聽到芬蘭他們"},{"start":5636.894,"end":5663.446,"text":"那個意願好像蠻高的很多人批評說我們派林昶佐去做芬蘭的大使好像是不是專業結果我看到一個新聞是林昶佐在芬蘭脫下他的西裝閃靈到了那邊他就直接演唱了因為芬蘭是重金屬國家所以派他去當大使正好是用文化去做結合"},{"start":5665.022,"end":5692.27,"text":"所以現在航權又已經簽了對不對是不是有必要我們去努力在北歐 瑞士我們航權也已經很早就有了所以我在思考就是說是不是我們觀光署就是除了在英發德有我們的辦事處之外就北歐 中歐 東歐等等的是不是可以做一個思考"},{"start":5693.617,"end":5720.723,"text":"那也就是說在其他的國家裡面就是不同的國度我希望說我們都用這樣子的想法主動出局類似包括韓國公社他們的這些做法那如何去推動台灣的我是一個想法就是說如果觀光署我們在世界各國都有我們的辦事處那能夠類似比如說好2025的下九季他們韓國的公社到我們高雄來辦"},{"start":5722.023,"end":5728.425,"text":"其實台灣的美食文化可以說世界應該是數一數二的包括"},{"start":5729.352,"end":5756.277,"text":"珍珠奶茶 包括小籠包 包括滷肉飯現在外國人說滷肉飯 都常常說滷肉飯小籠包也常常說小籠包這表示我們這名字已經燙到世界珍珠奶茶 他們不是叫珍珠奶茶他們叫Bubble Tea但是 就是說像這樣子我們是不是可以主動到全世界各國去把我們台灣的因為你先讓他有體驗嘛署長不是很重視體驗的活動嗎"},{"start":5758.024,"end":5775.998,"text":"是 跟委員報告剛剛委員特別提到的那個直航我覺得光屬未來的重點會跟著我們的直航走就是讓那個地方因為交通要先解決嘛所以我們去辦活動國人或者是當地人才有機會來到台灣這是第一個第二個 台灣的美食確實是引起世界的關注"},{"start":5776.778,"end":5805.255,"text":"我來的這六個多月基本上有很多國外的單位都是想跟台灣的這個美食做合作那這件事情確實也是屬於重中之重那這塊像我們今年今年上半年的越南會帶我們的板豆就是越南團來吃台灣的板豆這種主題型的方式其實也會持續性的推出以上跟委員報告沒事 我是簡單的就是說是我們其實觀光署的目的當時其實我還有一個"},{"start":5806.397,"end":5810.69,"text":"口號我覺得還蠻不錯的就是處處都是打卡點"},{"start":5811.997,"end":5839.409,"text":"步步都是觀光部那我也要希望說我們部長跟署長我這種感覺還沒有出來是不是能夠跟包括文化包括各部會其實就是說我們台灣的觀光要如何能夠推到全世界就像韓國的演唱會高雄的演唱會經濟這樣子一個方式能夠提高這個格局的思考時間的關係先提到這裡下次再補充"},{"start":5840.325,"end":5861.602,"text":"好 那希望說這個部分觀光署可以用一個不同的格局去做思考好不好小補充一下剛剛委員提到的那個北歐的部分是由我們駐倫敦代表處去參加旅展主要的市場就是北歐市場謝謝那盡快啦盡快把這個飛機航線把它完成好 謝謝謝謝許智傑委員發言完畢"},{"start":5875.404,"end":5887.421,"text":"謝謝我們現在請李崑澤召委謝謝主席請一下陳士凱部長還有楊振軍局長陳英秀署長陳署長"},{"start":5895.92,"end":5915.695,"text":"部長好 剛才的委員討論到宜蘭高鐵的問題我是高雄栽培的立法委員但我也是宜蘭的子弟那針對宜蘭高鐵的問題我想現在宜蘭的主流民意已經不是在關心需不需要做"},{"start":5916.235,"end":5937.449,"text":"宜蘭的這個高鐵的延伸而是在關心相關宜蘭高鐵的進度到底什麼時候要到動工到底什麼時候要完工這個是宜蘭鄉親最主要關心的一個趨勢那是不是史詩級的災難或是需不需要宜蘭高鐵的延伸其實"},{"start":5938.47,"end":5967.447,"text":"在還沒有高鐵之前我就在交通委員會當時高鐵在興建的過程裡面也受到很大的攻擊也被認為是史詩級的一個災難認為高鐵就是廢鐵沒有必要做這樣的一個交通的一個工程那我們也看到高雄的捷運在做的時候紅線橘線也是被攻擊說高雄根本就不需要"},{"start":5968.447,"end":5989.225,"text":"捷運而且紅線局線完成之後我們要推動環狀的輕軌也是被攻擊說根本就沒有必要來做輕軌到現在輕軌已經是要買新車因為搭乘的人太多了班次要更密集而且要買新車"},{"start":5991.308,"end":6012.317,"text":"高雄的紅線跟橘線捷運也已經不夠現在黃線已經在動工我們正在爭取紫線的這樣一個規劃當初的這些交通的規劃及完成才讓整個台灣的一日生活圈跟高雄現在的發展轉型以及高科技未來的城市的這樣的一個願景"},{"start":6013.513,"end":6024.308,"text":"才得以一步一步的實現這個宜蘭高鐵是要做的我現在先請教一下陳玉秀署長"},{"start":6026.428,"end":6054.506,"text":"我們現在總預算卡關但是原本陳玉秀署長有推出我們這樣一個國旅住宿的優惠方案相關的觀光業者大家都非常的期待因為在淡季期間我們編了23億不管是平日的住宿的優惠我們預計有16億然後生日的這樣一個住宿優惠大概有2000萬當然我們還有遊樂園的留宿方案等等"},{"start":6055.58,"end":6082.763,"text":"旅遊業者非常期待但是我們預計是應該是在4月要實施嗎是不是來說明一下是謝謝委員關心這個事情確實當時我們推出這個方案的時候業界普遍都是非常期待跟而且還有民眾打電話到光屬的旅客中心就感謝我們提出這個方案那現在當時我們的規劃第一個4到6月是全年度相對的比較淡的時候"},{"start":6083.403,"end":6102.511,"text":"那再加上我們當時考慮的是如果12月31號請預算通過我們有兩個月的準備期加上一個月的宣傳期4月1號剛剛好執行我相信對這整個計畫是效益最好的時候那現在總預算仍然是在卡關的這樣一個過程那我們實施會不會受到延誤"},{"start":6103.803,"end":6126.394,"text":"有沒有其他替代方案勢必上是一定是會受到影響因為我們的準備期是真的需要最緊最快都還要一個半月的時間所以這會牽涉到我們到底預算什麼時候過如果4月到6月無法執行的話後面就變是有點事半功事倍功半效益就會不如預期"},{"start":6127.034,"end":6153.11,"text":"我建議我們相關的行政的籌備流程還是照常的進行總預算如果能夠順利通過就能夠立即的實施在還沒有實施之前因為淡季的這樣的一個補助優惠業者是非常的期待認為是有助於觀光的一個活力的一個發展那如果這個預算一直卡關我們也必須要有替代的方案我請教一下你們有沒有替代方案"},{"start":6155.379,"end":6170.656,"text":"我們還是希望要能去支持這個項目確實因為我們大概從10月份開始已經討論相關的工作我們現在有點箭在弦上了部長我們現在整個總預算卡關我們對於觀光的發展"},{"start":6171.477,"end":6191.893,"text":"其實業者也都非常的明白是因為總預算卡關所以我們在相關的補助的這些優惠的方案或者是相關的國際旅遊的行銷或者是其他新興的計畫其實都碰到問題那部長對於這樣的一個觀光發展在面臨總預算被卡關的這樣的狀況之下你有什麼預備的這樣的一個處理的方案"},{"start":6196.176,"end":6212.394,"text":"報告委員我們當然以現在能夠做的內容來做就是說過去我們有的這個預算或者是計畫我們延續性的我們繼續來做但是如果有超過的大概就不行像您所提到的這個平日國旅優惠方案"},{"start":6213.095,"end":6229.645,"text":"這個就是超過了我們原本的那個額度的部分這個部分大概就沒有辦法來推但我們還是要呼籲立法院能夠趕快的審議我們的總預算讓我們的預算趕快過不然很多的事情包含TPAS在內你說要怎麼樣的預備方案其實有點困難"},{"start":6230.245,"end":6253.636,"text":"好 當然這個補助對於國旅的推動是有實質的幫助但是我要提醒部長跟署長我們對於觀光旅遊的一個發展還是要必須從區域的旅遊品牌就是地方的特色 多元永續還有旅宿的品質以及交通的改善來作為一個推動整體觀光發展一個重要的元素"},{"start":6254.356,"end":6279.465,"text":"當然我們在實質的政策對於軟硬體的這樣的一個推動其實更重要是對國內外旅客對於台灣旅遊的信任但是最近發生兩件事情對國內外旅客對台灣旅遊的信任就產生了很大的疑問第一個就是知名大型旅行社用戶資料外洩的這樣一個問題那我們都知道"},{"start":6280.365,"end":6299.41,"text":"旅客 有很多旅行社他是來代辦這些旅客的相關的這些旅遊的資料他們的資料會提供非常多的這些資料給旅行社發生這些外洩的狀況其實就讓國內外旅客對台灣的旅遊信任度就產生了這些質疑"},{"start":6299.89,"end":6322.7,"text":"那當然這展現了兩個問題第一個問題就是說我們對於業者管理這些個別的各自管理的這樣的一個狀況是怎麼處理的交通部觀光署必須要明確的掌握以及相關企業本身他資訊的這些安全的問題其實也浮現出來請部長說明一下"},{"start":6324.346,"end":6332.956,"text":"報告委員這個部分 觀光署應該會趕快去查處就是說已經進行查處我請那個旅行社負責的組長湯組長來簡單說明一下"},{"start":6336.332,"end":6355.758,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實針對那個旅行社各自部分我們分兩個部分一個就是我們平時就已經有在做查處那公安署已經有訂定計劃所以我們每年都會預防性的去做各自檢查那針對各自外線的旅行社的話我們會馬上啟動調查那針對五福這件我們昨天已經去查過了那我們都會依照相關規定來做辦理"},{"start":6358.274,"end":6370.698,"text":"那最主要民間它不是它是那種非關鍵基礎設施的管理範圍所以公機關是難以直接的介入那我們看到許多代辦業者"},{"start":6372.935,"end":6393.472,"text":"例如像這次的旅行社他們代辦民眾相關的這些業務他需要取得更多的這些用戶的個資企業本身他的資訊的安全防護技術其實是沒有辦法及時的更新類似的事件我認為還是會重複的發生"},{"start":6395.874,"end":6403.23,"text":"主管機關必須要督促以及協助業者來建立更完善的這種資訊安全的防護來 請簡單說明一下"},{"start":6405.729,"end":6425.583,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實都有在輔導業者我們也會希望他們可以參加就是相關的這個認證有一些旅行社已經有取得資安的認證那因為旅行社大部分都是中小型企業就是10人以下居多那大型企業其實我們都已經有在做個資檢查那五福發生這件事情應該也是駭客入侵"},{"start":6427.344,"end":6443.209,"text":"之前也有別的旅行社大家旅行社有發聲過那其實發聲之後他們都會特別的不容許一再的發聲這對國內外旅客對台灣旅遊的信任會降低我是認為必須要跨部會來制定或者是更新既有相關各自的管理規範"},{"start":6444.249,"end":6468.674,"text":"以及相關的資訊安全的一些指引而且要有定期的集合的機制而且我們要協助業者跟出發部來建立相關的這一種風險事件的這些預警以及預防提供業者來他們在發生的時候能夠由資安院還有相關的單位來提供及時的協助最後"},{"start":6469.574,"end":6486.728,"text":"我們來提一下我們相關的這些住宿的問題這也是影響到旅遊的這些信任我們看到民眾預計連結要出遊提前支付相關的訂金來訂定這些旅宿後續業者就說不好意思我們房間"},{"start":6487.589,"end":6505.121,"text":"要整修我們也沒有辦法提供相同的房型提供來讓民眾來更換所以要求你們退訂然後退訂之後這樣的要求然後我們看到民眾發現業者在其他地方以更高的價格來販售相同的這些房型這些觀光署有什麼處理的機制"},{"start":6509.196,"end":6524.897,"text":"這個部分如果說消費者呢遇到這樣的問題他可以直接跟地方政府的小法官來提出申訴那如果查證屬實他是惡意棄單的話基本上我們是可以罰他三倍的那個罰金的這個部分是這樣子這個要確實的記住以上謝謝"},{"start":6539.367,"end":6564.645,"text":"謝謝許智傑委員我們現在請徐富奎委員發言謝謝王一川委員 麗玲指導謝謝主席 有請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長 鐵道局楊局長跟公務局林局長謝謝林福山局長"},{"start":6574.097,"end":6581.411,"text":"部長早兩位局長早我剛剛聽了我們國民黨跟民眾黨的委員說那個論點想要討回"},{"start":6584.059,"end":6605.337,"text":"他們根本是倒贏為國 這個我想這個到目前為止 我們的這個今年度的總預算還躺在立法院還沒有審這個沒錢是要怎麼做現象他們一直把很多的問題推卸給我們的交通部 推卸給我們相關的單位 推卸給行政院真的是很離譜的那所以我想針對這樣的一個"},{"start":6608.587,"end":6627.675,"text":"立法院的一個困境部長我其實很憤怒我們屏東的尤其過去從我們的潘孟安前縣長到現在周春美縣長我們一路走來記得我們努力的屏東幾個幾項的重要的交通建設我想部長跟局長都非常清楚雙北現在買什麼要有什麼"},{"start":6629.195,"end":6653.724,"text":"他們的這個整個大眾交通運輸非常的便利捷運已經做過了我們屏東的高鐵還沒有來捷運也還沒有來甚至連我們現在屏南快速道路還在還貧真的我們的交通建設真的站不起來保水對我們屏東人情何以堪難道我們沒有納稅錢嗎太離譜了吧部長我想針對這樣的一個總預算的問題"},{"start":6656.687,"end":6676.004,"text":"交通部目前正在這樣的一個困境我們怎麼處理請部長說明報告委員您剛剛所提到的高鐵的部分我們也希望能夠繼續往前推進雖然說還有討論的這個空間但是我們還是希望往前推進我剛剛有講過就是說我們希望我們在高鐵的"},{"start":6676.684,"end":6694.476,"text":"部分已經20年了我們現在就是務實的延伸務實的延伸這個部分我們會努力來推進那另外平南快的部分我們也希望能夠快一點來進行那目前的這個可行性研究我們現在等行政院這邊來核定已經核定了那另外"},{"start":6695.737,"end":6716.992,"text":"高頻二快的部分院長在去年其實也有到這個屏東去也有宣布過我們希望能夠今年來動工但是因為現在總預算沒有過我們很擔心這個動工的時程會不會去延遲那我們當然希望不要去延遲到所以我們會想盡辦法想盡辦法讓高頻二快的部分能夠趕快來做動工的動作"},{"start":6718.243,"end":6746.255,"text":"部長 我想 我知道包含您跟我們的交通部都很努力但是我們不能被受困於藍白可以政治算計但屏東的交通建設不能繼續落後我想對我們情何以堪尤其今天講的觀光發展為什麼屏東縣現在觀光會受到這麼樣的困境交通難道不是一個很重要的一個因素嗎不然你也常常去屏東念很清楚我們光是要到屏東的路途裸遙萬"},{"start":6747.642,"end":6748.209,"text":"我每天坐車"},{"start":6750.199,"end":6778.689,"text":"要坐火車坐高鐵來台北開會來回就要6個小時那對我們這些遊客來講他光是5天的行程來回平常就浪費2天的交通耗的時間在那裡對我們來講怎麼會有誘因呢我想這個問題我們都要去面對都要去解決好那剛剛部長你講的那針對高屏二塊原本我們預期是今年要動工那這個預算也已經都編到今年的總預算今年會不會動工"},{"start":6780.101,"end":6798.634,"text":"報告委員 我們原本的計畫是希望9月底能夠動工那現在總預算確實是有延遲到我們現在還是在請公路局想盡辦法我們想盡辦法趕快讓他能夠動工是不是 我請局長來回答一下 是這邊跟委員報告一下確實就是說高屏二塊今年新興計畫在今年的預算是3.5億"},{"start":6799.875,"end":6819.824,"text":"那裡面大概有這個1.5億是屬於設計那這一個其他它將近2億是屬於用地徵收的部分那原來的現在在做這個篆桿這個設計當中那按照原定的期程是希望在9月底針對在這個台三線加入到因為是台台農土地比較容易取得希望來這個動工"},{"start":6821.124,"end":6848.008,"text":"那這個目前我們也很期盼這個預算趕快審查通過但是現在相關的這個前置的設計我們還是在這個感冒當中這個要拜託交通部我們一樣要照期程來進行第二個平安快速道路那因為我上個禮拜我也有請環境部跟部裡面來討論我們希望能夠加快這個重規跟環境的一個進度那這部分局長我們目前的進度會不會再能夠提前"},{"start":6849.249,"end":6863.742,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下就是說就是委員大概就是非常關切那環境部那邊也在這個協助那另外一個部分這一個就是這禮拜大概就是上禮拜大概就是城鎮委那邊也有特別這個召集來礦部會做協助"},{"start":6864.142,"end":6881.671,"text":"那目前大概就是說第一階段環評的部分這個我們已經提送環境部那環境部也很幫忙在2月4號會來做這個審查那如果說順利的話這個分手界定完之後那就可以這個配合我們現在現行的這個中規的一個作業那開展第二階段的環評"},{"start":6882.831,"end":6900.333,"text":"那陳政委這個也召開會議來協助那希望說訂這個目標在116年8月可以把這個二節環評把它做就是這個通過那相關的部分我們局裡面公務局也跟這個屏東縣政府大概有這個協調"},{"start":6901.814,"end":6922.285,"text":"因為未來在水底寮那邊會有一個加油道那這個跟水底寮外環道的共識放寮外環道一起處理這個185的一個聯絡道的部分的話我們跟屏東縣政府也有這個共識那會作為這個仙島工程來做一個處理那希望說在116年底這個仙島工程可以來動工"},{"start":6923.902,"end":6941.922,"text":"好 我希望今天局長講的 這個未來我們都會來檢視一定要照這樣的期程來進行我們的屏東鄉親已經等很久了這條救命路真的等很久了部長 那我想針對高鐵部分當然現在我們的前交通部的部長這個最近也"},{"start":6942.623,"end":6957.117,"text":"透過媒體一直在放話說這個我們屏東南沿屏東甚至北沿宜蘭的部分他們都認為沒有這個效益甚至有一些路廊的問題那我很遺憾的說過去這個整個"},{"start":6958.267,"end":6972.796,"text":"這個台灣的這個交通發展過去為什麼會重北青南難道這些人不用負責任嗎對得起我們屏東人嗎對得起宜蘭人嗎部長你有什麼看法是 報告委員我還是那一句話啦對於高鐵的議題"},{"start":6974.017,"end":6991.665,"text":"我們現在交通部的立場是務實而穩健的延伸什麼叫務實而穩健的延伸第一在工程的技術上可以克服可以做得到那第二在國家的預算上可以支撐得了也就是我們的預算能夠負擔得了的狀況底下我們會務實來推動延伸的計畫"},{"start":6992.952,"end":7018.205,"text":"我想我們的賴總統已經講過了嘛我們未來要均衡台灣連交通都不會均衡是不會讓台灣進步啦我想這個部分我們屏東人我還是要特別強調我們還是要享有交通平權的一個權利我們屏東人不站著要報稅部長在我們周圍來拍片這樣好不好這個部分我們交通部會來努力也感謝委員的支持好 那個兩位局長請回我請那個觀光署陳署長陳署長"},{"start":7027.106,"end":7042.474,"text":"我想我們針對這個臺灣的這個觀光發展那行政院這邊也提出了一個115到118的一個4年的一個計畫北回之巔跟這個微笑南威的一個計畫但是很遺憾的一樣卡在總預算的問題那尤其針對"},{"start":7043.895,"end":7055.083,"text":"目前整個這個我們觀光署也好針對整個這個地方政府也好會受到很大的一個觀光景點的一個發展跟觀光活動的一個推動的一個瓶頸那面對這個問題我們觀光署會不會來繼續來協調繼續來推動這個案子"},{"start":7062.582,"end":7081.216,"text":"謝謝委員提出來這個問題因為今年的擴大內需跟我們的北回直電都是國家重要級的建設公共建設那這件事情也是屬於各地方政府也非常的期待跟支持那在去年光屬就已經組成了為了北回直電這個案子我們已經組成了一個總顧問團"},{"start":7084.298,"end":7111.078,"text":"希望以軟帶硬把這條軸線上面除了公共建設之外但是到底有哪些的故事在這裡先已經在內部做盤點所以我們是急需要這個計畫趕快通過那我們相關後面的工作才能開始啟動大家都重視觀光產業的發展但是如果預算不過就會勢必上延後了我們後面整個台灣觀光發展的一個機會那在這邊還是懇請立法院趕快審預算趕快通過預算謝謝"},{"start":7112.239,"end":7131.566,"text":"因為我聽說國民黨跟民眾黨的委員說因為你們現在規劃的案子都是否我們這個綠營執政的縣市其實我們把計畫攤開來看看國民黨的縣市難道沒有嗎更多花蓮台東南投都有我想這是一個均衡觀光的一個做法"},{"start":7132.466,"end":7155.553,"text":"那目前我們的柯執恩委員 謝榮介委員蘇勛委員 你們也是要進行選縣市長難道你們不支持這些案子嗎所以我們還是要再三呼籲在野黨要趕快來省預算 不要再阻擋總預算我想這個部分能夠讓我們的觀光發展能夠趕快往前推進那最後我想 最後一個問題部長 最近這個101事件你有什麼看法"},{"start":7157.757,"end":7172.727,"text":"101事件我們這個爬101這個是國人大家都很振奮的一件事情那在過程當中其實交通部也有幫上一些忙但是我們沒有把它特別去做宣傳因為這個是101的這個甲董事長他們努力的方向"},{"start":7173.652,"end":7200.907,"text":"因為我知道我們現在觀光行銷上面我們當然有很多的策略了包含網紅也好 包含演唱會經濟也好但我想我們現在這個不同的課程尤其包含國內外的這個遊客要來一定有不一樣的這個課程的安排跟這個玩法我們觀光署也應該要與時俱進要想很多不一樣的方式 讓媒體自己會主動去報 讓大家願意來關注這樣的一個發展 我想這是一個很好的一個案例 謝謝"},{"start":7202.208,"end":7219.745,"text":"好 謝謝徐物魁委員發言完畢先做一下宣告等一下蔡其昌委員林俊憲委員發言完畢之後休息十分鐘請各黨團助理告知接下來的委員以便他們安排時間現在請蔡其昌委員發言"},{"start":7231.48,"end":7237.506,"text":"謝謝主席請交通部陳部長 觀光署陳署長陳部長 陳署長委員部長早 署長早"},{"start":7246.898,"end":7266.351,"text":"今天主席安排了發展觀光條例的修法針對發展觀光條例本席有幾條條文要來進行這些修正因為這個條文我本席今天就不講但是我講的跟這個條文多多少少有一點關係"},{"start":7268.872,"end":7282.59,"text":"我們都知道這個觀光對台灣的觀光而言這個不管是觀光的數字這個觀光產業的榮枯其實跟兩條軸線很大的關係一條就是inbound一條就是outbound"},{"start":7283.311,"end":7303.987,"text":"那看起來澳邦的部分就是在服務澳邦的這些旅行社等等看起來應該是狀況不差啦因為我們可以看得到包括從韓國的統計數據從日本的統計數字來看台灣人都變成人家的這個財神也了"},{"start":7304.776,"end":7328.187,"text":"所以對我們的出國的旅客而言其實我們的狀態其實是相當不錯的但是反過來來台灣的旅客看起來狀況還有很大的努力空間那當然在台灣的旅行而言除了外國人來之外國旅也是很重要的一個部分"},{"start":7329.502,"end":7356.325,"text":"那其實這個是老生常談這個在交通委員會這麼長的時間我想每一個階段我們的國旅都面臨不同的挑戰那也曾經好過但現在此刻的狀態看起來是不好那這個不好其實我沒有辦法給你標準答案但我覺得觀光研訓院要成立之後我認為觀光研訓院應該給大家答案"},{"start":7357.099,"end":7377.595,"text":"什麼意思呢 譬如說現在我認為很不利的你在所有的社群平台上你都可以去發現這個有錢人出國有錢人留在台灣 窮人出國那這個意思就是要告訴大家說國旅是比出國更貴的旅行"},{"start":7378.666,"end":7403.226,"text":"那這個已經是既定印象你只要看在社群平台上你只要PO這種文的下面大概都留言量那一則的PO文流量都特別的大那下面的PO文都可以看出來大家看起來多數是同意這種說法所以這個其實是一個既定的刻板印象而且這個刻板印象對國旅是非常不利的所以"},{"start":7404.414,"end":7433.897,"text":"交通部或觀光署要怎麼去扭轉這個刻板印象我認為這個其實是很關鍵的那這個刻板印象源自於哪裡源自於大家會覺得譬如說國旅的飯店國旅的這個旅宿很貴那更源頭可能從墾丁開始更源頭可能從墾丁開始那這個就是過去本席一直在提到對於觀光飯店有貴有中價位也有便宜"},{"start":7434.741,"end":7453.31,"text":"可是大家會普遍沒有特別在數據上做管理的印象也就是只要網路有人PO一張很個案型的照片個案的案例說你看 食物這個一點點什麼東西夜市買來的什麼東西就要多少錢"},{"start":7454.801,"end":7480.851,"text":"拍了一張房間的照片然後就告訴大家你看我花了多少錢然後下面就一大堆留言說你這個錢我已經可以去Okinawa我已經可以去日本了其實就這樣那這個案我不是說PO的人不對啦我的意思只是告訴你們說或許那一個PO的人是對的他也無心要打擊誰只是作為一個消費者他覺得這樣很貴可是這個一個個案就會變成久而久之就會變成普遍的現象"},{"start":7481.994,"end":7505.208,"text":"那觀光署的重點在哪裡當然啦 有人賣得很貴然後貴跟便宜又有個人感受的問題又有他其他周邊服務到底含不含瓜在這個價格裡面可是久而久之大家就會普遍覺得都是這麼貴所以什麼叫數字管理就是資料的收集對觀光署而言到底每一個"},{"start":7506.699,"end":7523.496,"text":"國旅重點時刻到來每一個地區它的定房狀況中價位價位到哪裡高價位價位到哪裡低價位到平均房價到底在哪裡其實這個對消費者而言就是最好去對抗個案因為統計數據我們不會有"},{"start":7525.748,"end":7552.813,"text":"而且對觀光署而言或許你也不夠及時你或許自己也對這個資訊的掌握也不足所以我只是提供一個就以科學的數據統計數據來面對我們國旅很多的消費者的個案這樣才有辦法跟大家跟社會說明你不說明長期一個個案一個個案累積最後就約定俗成最後就形成刻板印象最後就是告訴大家"},{"start":7554.042,"end":7562.178,"text":"有錢的人才能留在台灣國旅窮人最好出國因為出國比較便宜但事實上出國真的比較便宜嗎"},{"start":7563.719,"end":7589.482,"text":"這個也要看地區 看時間要看他要求的服務品質來論斷所以我想全世界都是如此台灣有台灣的好 國外有國外的好這個沒有辦法蘋果跟橘子是沒有辦法放在同一個天平來比較但為什麼會被台灣的國旅會變成被污名化這麼嚴重我覺得這個是觀光署真的要認真去思考那接下來你又有光源心願的成立"},{"start":7590.31,"end":7611.366,"text":"所以光源心願對於這樣的問題到底要怎麼解方是什麼我提的只有一個你這數字的公佈就客觀數字的統計公佈讓大家的預期可以怎麼去處理他接下來的旅行到底要出國還是要留在台灣這個可控部長跟署長你們覺得呢"},{"start":7612.609,"end":7637.558,"text":"報告員您剛剛的那個建議我剛剛也跟署長講您上一頁的那個建議應該要把它拿下來好好來討論一下真的是應該各種數據都讓民眾能夠接觸的到能夠理解的到這個是比較持平的方式才不會大家用刻板的印象去對國旅有不好的一些想法所以部長你是支持所以我們應該集結不只是我建議這一項"},{"start":7639.159,"end":7665.887,"text":"在署裡面有那麼多的優秀的文官你們應該要認真去思考面對到底國旅是什麼因為不能只在知緯末節這個補助一下那個辦個活動放個煙火其實這個在結構上我覺得現在國旅是很不利的那個刻板印象是非常深刻強烈的那第二個像我都覺得像署長你曉得我看了一個東西我就覺得很有趣"},{"start":7667.557,"end":7685.772,"text":"我們的環境部在推綠色旅遊網頁你有看到這個環境部的這個活動嗎你曉得這個活動嗎 觀光署曉得嗎署長或者其他同仁曉得嗎環境部有在推綠色旅遊網頁"},{"start":7687.862,"end":7704.165,"text":"我們跟環境部一直有保持跟綠色旅遊的這塊的一些合作跟聯繫一直都有好 那其實如果這分兩個層次現在看起來觀光署是知道的那我的意思就是說觀光署竟然知道觀光署對於"},{"start":7706.026,"end":7725.176,"text":"環保標章的環境部認證環保標章旅行社有26家嘛其實占比很低啦連1%都不到只有0.6而已那他裡面去區分嘛他列了一些條件然後列了一些旅行該具備什麼什麼然後給你什麼叫做金級銀級銅級這樣加起來總共只有26家"},{"start":7727.264,"end":7753.365,"text":"那如果大家因為我看到了新的修法也提到行政院也提到叫永續觀光環境部現在在做的透過環保標章的旅行社推這個綠色旅遊觀光署你們覺得這件事情讓環境部在推綠色旅遊你覺得這個合理嗎或者說這個認證你們要不要跟環境部好好討論一下這個認證是什麼"},{"start":7755.031,"end":7783.544,"text":"跟委員報告委員觀察的確實是事實但是現在其實不是只有環境部在推綠色旅遊各部會都在推綠色旅遊太好了因為就是現在的顯學那署長我作為一個旅行社或者觀光飯店那我到底要申跟你中華民國政府申請多少的認證標章因為你說各部會都在推所以我環境部要申請一次我觀光署要申請一次我不知道還有其他哪一個部也在推"},{"start":7784.344,"end":7790.208,"text":"那我到底我要怎麼證明我是國家認證我是永續旅遊綠色旅遊或者什麼旅遊"},{"start":7792.72,"end":7818.985,"text":"這件事情現在也是我們跟環境部正在溝通的地方我們能推的是綠色旅遊但是呢 標章這件事情我們建議還是由環境部來處理大家才有一致的標準那現在觀光署因為推的還是郵程嘛所以我們會再去集合一下各部會再推有關綠色旅遊的這個項目再集中起來好啦 我的意思就是說你們觀光署 我講在交通委員會二十年來太多的認證"},{"start":7821.072,"end":7838.323,"text":"太多的認證每一次認證一大堆的認證鼓勵業者來申請申請完之後他在市場上到底能不能創造現金流其實我都高度懷疑就像搞這個律師認證你看只有26家26家認證佔比0.6%在旅行社的佔比0.6%那好就算"},{"start":7847.059,"end":7866.656,"text":"我第一個問題是政府要不要統合不要讓大家到處在申請認證第二個 好 我申請認證完之後認證跟不認證到底有什麼差異業者很辛苦 經營很辛苦了國旅都已經這麼差了我還要花錢去認證認證完之後還接不到生意"},{"start":7867.782,"end":7891.307,"text":"所以當我們要辦一個認證第一個先整合你們先談好誰要來做這個認證第二個誰要來做這個行銷就是你要讓大家區隔說我很認真在推永續推綠色然後過了之後只要拿到認證於是乎我會吸引一大票的人讓大家知道我就是全台灣最綠色或者最永續的旅行社"},{"start":7892.452,"end":7917.611,"text":"你如果不做這個他只是又多一個認證標章又擾民 又讓業者要申請申請太少 公安署又沒有面子所以要趕快去督促大家趕快來申請不然我再編一個預算認證什麼補助什麼補助然後認證完之後其實也找不到生意署長 你懂我的意思部長 懂我的意思所以第一個 先做好整合第二個"},{"start":7918.868,"end":7940.258,"text":"把認證後面的整個行銷的規劃一併做好這樣不就不讓大家說你講故事大家又推什麼認證我就覺得很煩了啦業者都覺得很煩好不好最後一個啊部長那個我們持續在委員會裡面爭取台中機場的這個新的航線那我們很謝謝這個我們很謝謝這個星宇嘛在"},{"start":7945.931,"end":7965.022,"text":"這個夏季的航班裡面又多了這個東京跟熊本東京跟熊本那今年本期要推動建議的那麼多的新的航點還有沒有可能有其他的點因為時間很有限來簡單回答我就好"},{"start":7965.862,"end":7980.721,"text":"今年因為夏季班表冬季夏季班表三月剛剛委員講到這個那當然之前我們也再持續看看日本的部分還有沒有再新增的可能機會 現在機會很大你知道嗎中國因為不飛了 那個機場"},{"start":7982.763,"end":8009.908,"text":"運量就會下來下來就剛好台灣補進去這個時候不搶 機會很難東京每一個點都那麼熱那其實不只東京像東南亞也是像台中很多希望飛曼谷或者是像比較遠一點像雜黃 北海道這些其實都可以考慮 好不好那另外那個華信不要忘記你們答應我了 華信新的飛機華航撥過來之後要有一台來飛台中的"},{"start":8010.428,"end":8034.08,"text":"到時候要飛哪裡我們再商量一下再一看市場的需求啦好來謝謝蔡體昌委員發言完畢現在請林俊憲委員發言發言完畢之後休息十分鐘好感謝主席本席要請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長"},{"start":8041.363,"end":8042.549,"text":"委員好部長好"},{"start":8043.752,"end":8071.69,"text":"部長我們台南市的一個重大交通建設就是台南鐵路地下化預計在今年底通測是 部長好像明天要到台南去主持鐵路地下化的一個接軌儀式對 崗軌的最後的接軌儀式所以我們地方非常期待這個台南的鐵路地下化對於台南未來的發展非常重要是 但是"},{"start":8073.149,"end":8102.208,"text":"受到今年總預算還沒有審查的影響那相關的預算如果沒有辦法動之會不會影響到今年底的通車報告委員確實我們今年的預算是超過去年所以在台南鐵路地下化確實會有預算上面的影響但是通車的部分我們目前還是朝年底之前通車這個目標在努力當中"},{"start":8103.169,"end":8130.811,"text":"因為他的台南鐵路地下化的中間補助款是由前瞻的預算移編到部裡面來的好那我給你看幾個數字第一個他在去年大概是有編了178億多那今年我現在講的是你所有的鐵道捷運軌道的交通部的一個經費"},{"start":8132.529,"end":8155.716,"text":"今年是編了310億台南的也在裡面這筆預算就是交通部的鐵道還有捷運建設的計畫它包含了桃園桃園的鐵路地下化花東的鐵路雙軌電氣化嘉義市的鐵路高架嘉義縣市的跨縣市的鐵路高架還有台南市"},{"start":8156.772,"end":8172.569,"text":"的鐵路地下化的計畫等等都在裡面是那如果今年2026年的年度總預算沒有過這310億沒有過那你依法大概就只能動之到一個上限就是去年預算的上限178億多是不是這樣是"},{"start":8176.157,"end":8201.494,"text":"也就是說如果總預算沒有通過的話那你今年只能執行你今年310億大概不到六成大概57%的預算就你比照去年最高的預算你是不是可以動這這樣的額度對 報告委員就是差額會有到131億這麼多你有130億你就沒辦法做那你原本的預算規模310億"},{"start":8203.075,"end":8231.829,"text":"結果你現在手裡面只有179億所以你就要做預算分配嘛 對不對那很簡單 你要怎麼分配這個影響到各縣市地方重大的交通建設所以這個在野黨不省總預算也害慘了地方這個是政治的惡鬥害死國家的發展各縣市的重大建設的發展"},{"start":8232.912,"end":8259.292,"text":"我在這裡要求部長那你現在原本的年度預算規模今年310億結果你現在只能弄至179億你就去挑啦凡是反對省總預算藍白立委的這個民眾黨沒有就國民黨立委的地方你就不要分配給他那要不然桃園一塊錢都不要給他桃園六個禮物都分對"},{"start":8263.212,"end":8291.838,"text":"總預算啊花東也是啊這樣要分配嗎不然你怎麼分配你告訴我報告委員我們是希望每一個縣市都不要被放棄啦那但是各個地方的委員你不總預算你都不要放棄你全部都不要放棄各個地方的委員自己也要想辦法來支持這個總預算不然真的會對他們的地方的建設會造成很重大的影響你應該跟地方的縣市長說啊跟投行的張善政說啊花東也是啊"},{"start":8293.012,"end":8316.478,"text":"你們的立委反對省總預算交通部今年哪有錢補助你鐵道岸捷運的建設相關計畫你從那優先步驟像我們這幾期心中有什麼台南高雄嘉義那我再請教部長我也要求部長不可以影響到台南連底通車的計畫"},{"start":8318.956,"end":8326.371,"text":"我們會 有沒有問題我們會盡全力盡全力來努力這個方向你的全力是有沒有辦法不影響通車的計畫"},{"start":8328.995,"end":8355.444,"text":"應該是可以啦報告委員明天你要記住我明天要去要去做一定可以崗軌的最後的這個先接我知道啦感謝啦但是預算真的是對我們影響相當相當的大不過我們交通部跟鐵道局會全力努力讓這個台南的鐵路地下化在今年年底來做通車的典禮你的你今年還可以動資大概179億台南市鐵路地下化降多少20億"},{"start":8358.018,"end":8383.306,"text":"你看沒問題吧 對不對是 是 我看那個人家京都一直在聽頭啊所以不會影響到台南市的鐵路地下化的通車啦就算總預算沒有省好 我們達成這樣 我們達成這樣一個結論啦你京都比你比較有擔當人家京都都說可以你補充一直要省 不用省啦對不對 才20億嘛 對不對"},{"start":8385.447,"end":8408.846,"text":"台南的六席立委都支持要省總預算你這個當然要優先給我們感謝台南的立委都支持總預算我們會優先來顧及台南鄉親的需求另外我再講一個這兩個都是關於應該跟交通部當然都是業務相關第一個我們國內的旅遊今天大家很關心"},{"start":8410.083,"end":8420.732,"text":"除了昂貴以外 還會產生一些亂象什麼昂貴啊 不只是吃喝的 一般都煮那你說國旅就整了 巷子整了就大了"},{"start":8421.897,"end":8445.365,"text":"你整個沒關係 產生一些奇奇怪怪的現象例如現在的人出去玩 訂房一般都透過平台那你平台他有時候遇到廉價或者有重大 假設你預訂了 你訂好了結果忽然間公佈說有什麼樣的一個大活動 那就會出問題"},{"start":8446.84,"end":8471.175,"text":"高雄因為演唱會經濟很成功BTS去高雄開演唱會平台就把所有訂房取消平台也叫他在上面有房間的這些飯店先關房再漲價因為他知道這個活動辦了很多人會來對不對你如果照平常的價格賣他覺得可以賺到多少"},{"start":8477.911,"end":8505.265,"text":"因為一個大活動到了大家一定會搶房那有沒有辦法管理你連個平台你沒辦法管理這個問題其實我以前質詢過我說這些平台現在在上面賣房間有很多在上面刊登廣告的都是非法的旅宿你沒習慣了你告訴我什麼平台沒落地"},{"start":8506.946,"end":8509.763,"text":"那現在有沒有辦法管啊現在可以管嗎"},{"start":8512.25,"end":8538.901,"text":"來 市長 跟委員報告關於像那個惡意棄單的這個部分呢消費者如果遇到這樣的問題就直接跟當地的地方政府的消保官直接申訴那所以如果查證屬實他是可以罰三倍的這是第一個 第二個呢針對非法旅宿的部分呢在法官條例第55條跟51-1條也有只要是非法的部分我們最旅館業最高可以罰兩百萬民宿是最高可以罰一百萬"},{"start":8540.161,"end":8566.332,"text":"這個部分現在也要求他們在任何刊登廣告上面都要把自己合法的證據都放上來針對非法旅宿你講的嘛他在刊登非法旅宿他刊登廣告的行為他可以罰10萬到150萬是你有罰嗎150萬最高你有罰嗎目前由地方政府去主責你有罰嗎在平台上刊登"},{"start":8568.402,"end":8578.713,"text":"報告我們這個是就個案去處理因為這部分就是有一方面就是另一個就是你觀光署有處罰嗎地方政府在做那個你要推給地方政府你觀光署有處罰嗎"},{"start":8580.2,"end":8604.063,"text":"因為這是全責的話如果說一般旅館跟民宿是地方政府在主責如果是觀光旅館是由我們來直接來開發非法觀光旅館全國都沒有人回歸基本上是沒有非法的觀光旅館你在那個在那個平台上刊登的非法旅宿那有沒有要求平台不要讓他刊登"},{"start":8605.974,"end":8624.868,"text":"這個像我們平常就會請地方政府就要平常要巡查如果有的話就直接發行給他要求他撤 撤下你要求誰撤要求OTA平台如果他是在平台上看到的話所以你現在可以管理OTA平台了OTA平台現在已經要求他要在台灣成立公司所以基本上已經可以納管了"},{"start":8625.305,"end":8641.039,"text":"好 台灣每一家平台都有落地嗎都有成立公司嗎在這一部分是有兩個方式來處理另外就是說我們那個地方政府經過利用網路訊號政府平台大部分都沒有落地"},{"start":8642.882,"end":8668.958,"text":"國內的旅行社的這一部分全部都用旅行社來登記國內的平台的部分那如果說是不勤勞落地嗎所以國外的這個因為它是國際的這部分國人大部分都在這幾個大的平台上訂的台灣前三大 前五大的平台統統沒有落地啦你們的署長不知道不知道署長是不是署長是沒有落地那麼沒有落地什麼落地"},{"start":8669.858,"end":8687.405,"text":"你到底懂不懂的自己業務不太了解一下平台都沒有落地啦包括你部長你自己出席的時候你都用哪個網站你都用什麼店報告委員我已經很久沒有訂房了你沒有訂房喔搞清楚好不好"},{"start":8687.998,"end":8715.213,"text":"沒有啦 國際的平台目前還沒有落地沒有完全落地但是國內的平台是有落地的但是沒有錯 委員講得很正確大部分的國人是用國際的平台在使用你國內平台當然在台灣當然也落地怎麼可以這樣講 你說的不順暢問題大部分我們現在台灣一般旅客因為國內平台都不好用啦都不好用啦好啦 報告委員我們召委再催我時間了啦"},{"start":8717.988,"end":8744.178,"text":"你這個博文已經問了很多次因為發生救援都是這樣子啦對然後你說他不可以惡意取消訂單他現在有見到投訴的是平台叫這些業者先先關一開先取消訂單就先關起來啦然後再重新訂價先關房再訂價那你叫他找平台算賬嘛"},{"start":8745.455,"end":8758.731,"text":"對不對他就知道說有一個大活動要到了那現在可以提高房價了所以大家都先把房間預訂關起來然後再提高定價這樣所以這個就是平台管理的問題"},{"start":8759.551,"end":8780.188,"text":"報告委員這一部分我們有特別有召開會議跟縣市政府在針對這個做法去做加強舉例你們應該要求這個平台要落地啦到台灣賺錢也不落地那也不繳稅好不好好現在部長謝謝謝謝林進憲委員發言完畢我們現在休息十分鐘"},{"start":8805.375,"end":8808.898,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":8854.565,"end":8877.176,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":8892.449,"end":8920.555,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":8925.52,"end":8936.51,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9069.684,"end":9070.708,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9125.555,"end":9144.193,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":9150.247,"end":9168.148,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9197.688,"end":9227.466,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9257.671,"end":9260.009,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9321.749,"end":9326.101,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9385.615,"end":9407.484,"text":"好我們繼續開會現在請黃健豪委員發言好謝謝召委那我們一樣請交通部陳部長請陳部長然後我們一樣請這個觀光署陳玉秀署長請陳署長"},{"start":9414.252,"end":9438.96,"text":"委員好 部長好 署長好我想今天開始還是要跟大家討論一下我們觀光的問題當然這兩天有新聞披露說我們老牌的旅行社很多旅行社遭到勒令停業那觀光署公布了有46家名單這一方面反映出可能是國內的觀光產業相對的衝擊比較大但是今天不是要跟大家討論產業問題既然發生就發生但是我們要討論說民眾的消費者權益的問題"},{"start":9440.3,"end":9464.581,"text":"這觀光署公布的46家名單那新聞上跟政府都說提醒消費者不要被騙但是我想問一件事情是說我們這是我們政府的責任不然交通部觀光署裡面我們去公布因為每年海暑假之前都去公布這種旅行社的查核結果那公布完披露了資訊之後那還要做什麼事情我們有什麼責任嗎還是你們的責任是公布完就沒事了"},{"start":9469.002,"end":9495.409,"text":"是不是請旅行業組的組長可以啊是 跟委員報告我們其實這個是法定要公佈的事有時候我們會依照法規來公佈那公佈之後其實有一些狀況是譬如說他今天是因為財務狀況被我們停業的話我們就會請他提這個財務改善計畫那必須要確認他財務有改善之後我們才會復業如果他一直沒有改善就是停業那其實這個部分的作為也是為了要保障消費者的措施好 謝謝組長"},{"start":9496.849,"end":9519.323,"text":"我跟部長跟署長 我想要確認一件事情這是我每次看到這個新聞的 我的疑問想今天利用這個資訊來瞭解一下就是說其實我今天要問的問題是說那我作為消費者我是每次出遊之前我有義務跟責任我自己要去上觀光署的網站查詢說哪些被停業了嗎那還是說觀光署這邊有沒有去橫向聯繫包含說經濟部也好 金管也好"},{"start":9520.043,"end":9543.921,"text":"就這些被勒令停業被公告停業的廠商為什麼還會有消費者被騙是因為他還能收費嗎他還能繼續延攬生意嗎那其他在其他的平台上面他的網站上面或他的金流他的銀行帳戶還可以繼續收款嗎這件事情有人在處理嗎還是說今天他雖然被勒令停業已經一次是16家那我看那個清單上非常多家有的有名有的不有名"},{"start":9544.468,"end":9552.985,"text":"那今天他在他一樣照樣在假設他在報紙上或在網站上刊登這個招攬新的廣告他可能要賺最後一筆要跑路了不管他有什麼想法"},{"start":9554.056,"end":9581.085,"text":"他開始這樣廣告然後有相關的這個帳戶也都出來然後能夠去繳錢然後也付費了但結果發現女士已經被勒令停業了這是我可能是要費者事後才知道但是我問說事前或是你們在勒令停業的那一刻開始有沒有去做橫向聯繫讓相關部會包含是經管會經濟部也好去包含經濟部要停他的這個營業執照嘛那他的經管會他的銀行帳戶要被凍結或是不能再收這個相關款項嘛等等的這部分有沒有人在處理還是就公告就沒事了"},{"start":9582.543,"end":9602.015,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們其實一般會呼籲消費者就是你要找旅行社之前你要先到我們的那個官網上去查詢我們是會請他查詢合法旅行社所以這停業的名單不會在我們合法的旅行社裡面那剛剛委員有詢問到這個橫向聯繫部分那我們的旅行社其實現在如果被停業的話他就是不能再經營旅行業務"},{"start":9602.915,"end":9617.344,"text":"之前到現在我們都也沒有看到旅行社就是說他被停業之後他還有繼續去收款這些情形 沒有那我們會發現的話他通常有財務狀況的話我們會事先來來做相關的處理那停業之後他就不會再營業也沒有這樣子的案例"},{"start":9618.123,"end":9632.572,"text":"我先確認一下他是自己沒有做這件事他沒有做這件事還是他不能做但依法他不能做啦但是我的問題還是很明確就是說自家旅行社他的收款的這個他的公司帳戶或是負責人帳戶等等的有沒有被中或怎麼樣我想委員的問題蠻明確啦"},{"start":9634.193,"end":9654.933,"text":"就是說希望我們除了觀光署這邊勒令停業之後除了我們自己勒令停業應該橫向聯繫上也要通知到經濟部那邊甚至是經管會那邊讓他們清楚說後續的例如說金流的狀況就必須要被管控或者是說他的公司登記等等之類的這個部分就要有所處置"},{"start":9656.454,"end":9681.442,"text":"那這個部分其實是可以做的我們是不是請觀光署也朝這個方向就是我們勒令停業之後雖然說我們現在看起來勒令停業之後沒有發生後續委員所擔心的狀況但如果可以做得更仔細那當然是更好我們來討論一下看怎麼樣讓其他的橫向聯繫可以做得更完善那這個部分討論之後我們再跟委員來做說明好 謝謝部長我想這就是要"},{"start":9683.1,"end":9698.443,"text":"你們積極一點去把這個當然目前我照你們所說假設真的還沒有發生那未來可能會有人想到就是說就是經濟不好或怎麼樣一次46家我想這數字也相對比較震撼那可能不要說真的這個產業有些影響我們擔心的就是說像"},{"start":9699.184,"end":9721.516,"text":"就像詐騙問題是一樣的依法都不能說過去也沒想到會有人這樣被詐騙但是就是會有人想到這種途徑所以我們當然希望說至少在這個相關的這個金流上面能夠把它阻絕然後沒辦法繼續收費當然就不會有後續的問題這是我覺得感謝部長的回應那接下來我們討論一個舊議題之前上次我們也那個觀光署署長可以請回"},{"start":9723.038,"end":9728.786,"text":"之前我也諮詢過就是推動自行車旅遊這國人說法當然部分那當然後續交通部門有回我一個這個說明"},{"start":9730.967,"end":9760.148,"text":"你們說回去會討論檢討拿回一個說明那說明回來的結果其實跟之前是一樣的就是說還是一樣還是維持原規定就是說還是一樣車架的高度有限制然後建議可以往後面加裝這個車載的這個車可以裝在車後不要超過50公分這些都是本來就這樣子那上次提出來討論就是說有沒有可能去放寬相關的規定為什麼會做規定因為假設今天要推動綠色旅遊要推動自行車旅遊我們講一下國人目前以"},{"start":9761.008,"end":9774.436,"text":"先以你們上一次辦環法車賽的大會車的高度來講它那個休旅車的高度本身就已經很高了然後再加上自行車它一定超過法定限制這是第一件事情第二件事情是我按照國內"},{"start":9776.204,"end":9793.471,"text":"現在比較暢銷的幾個熱門的這個休旅車的款式車款平均高度大概就落到170到180左右公分它的高度大概是這樣子那如果再加上車架那加上這個單車的車高單車車高當然很多種車高那我們查了一下比較"},{"start":9794.707,"end":9808.552,"text":"通用的我們用UBIKE來舉例就好UBIKE的高度是105.5公分所以如果你的車身本身已經180了再加上車架再加上UBIKE以UBIKE為標準的話105公分你的高度一定就會超過285公分"},{"start":9810.333,"end":9831.739,"text":"那基本上你只要開車想要把這腳踏車運具再去任何一個地方去騎乘的話不管是參加比賽或是去觀光的用途它的高度會超過285公分它就有機會或一定就會收到罰單我想包含每年我們現在在日月潭每年既定雖然去年跟今年都有辦去年前年都有辦比賽今年也會辦比賽"},{"start":9832.999,"end":9860.437,"text":"這個大會的這些車這個大會的收容車或者是這些選手的這些車子相關的高度如果這個東西沒有放寬的話或是沒有去做特別處理的話它是不是繼續會有罰單的問題高委員其實大部分的車型都不會有這個問題福斯有一款車子是會有這個問題那很多的車子其實就像我們的建議放在車後的也相當多所以基本上會影響到的車型跟真正會影響到的民眾並不多"},{"start":9862.018,"end":9875.674,"text":"公路局這邊也有針對說實際上在檢視的過程當中該怎麼樣讓他在安全的條件之下能夠符合他們也有一些做法包含在檢驗的過程當中也有一些做法是不是請局長來回答"},{"start":9877.295,"end":9900.32,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下上次大概委員很關切這樣子的課題那回去我大概也請同仁就是說去把這個問題做一個了解那我先跟委員報告就是說這個小型車上面放這個自行車的一個部分的話大概有分這一個兩種一種是這個家庭用的那另外一種就是剛剛委員講的參加競賽有點類似保姆車這樣子的部分"},{"start":9900.82,"end":9920.822,"text":"那一般如果是我們駕用的部分大概一般的休旅車高度大概這個OK那如果說是屬於大型競賽他們那個保姆車大概都用福斯的車型那福斯這個相對這一個就是這一個比較高就會有這樣子的一個情況那我所了解目前實務的狀況那有些這個保姆車要去克服這樣的情況就是拆輪胎然後降低這個高度"},{"start":9921.763,"end":9944.468,"text":"目前我大概那另外一個部分有些是這個把它放在這一個保母車裡面那另外一種是後面有用輕型半舟車的一個方式去做但是我現在就是說請這個局裡面同仁跟車安中心去比對先就是說這些相關車型的一個部分因為如果說要在這一個放寬等等部分的話就必須要考慮到因為一上去的話"},{"start":9945.328,"end":9966.876,"text":"有這些保護車有很多是這個要行駛高速公路做運送的部分那個風阻的部分還有安全的部分就必須要做考量那這個部分局裡面現在有在通盤做一個這個檢視那我跟委員報告如果說在安全的條件之下這個高度可以做一個調整的話我們會盡可能我朝這個方向來做調整但是還是要以這個安全為前提"},{"start":9967.403,"end":9997.043,"text":"好當然安全很重要這沒有問題那當然說這個高度限制這個定下的規定因為這個討論我說真的這大概也十幾年討論了我在 survey 相關資料的時候上次最早相關的新聞可能出現在2013年之類就十幾年前了就開始討論這件事情那已經過十幾年後我想現在的車子的它的技術它的高度跟過去相比應該相對比較進步一點它的車架的能耐和相關的這個設備應該也有進步很多所以我覺得這個要盡快的還是要去做新的檢討不要一直"},{"start":9998.263,"end":10024.67,"text":"沒守成規啦 我講真的就是這樣好不好 可以嗎好 謝謝委員 在安全的前提之下我們來做討論好 謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員發言完畢現在請陳雪生委員發言好 謝謝主席是不是請交通部陳部長請陳部長"},{"start":10037.223,"end":10060.851,"text":"什麼叫偏鄉 解釋一下偏鄉 交通相對不便那經濟條件相對沒有這麼方便的地方什麼叫離島離島就是台灣島以外的島都是離島偏鄉跟離島重要嗎"},{"start":10062.182,"end":10083.801,"text":"都很重要不重要就把它切掉一塊就把它切掉剩下台灣本島就好了嘛對不對南部如果愛手愛腳的話切掉剩下台北市就好了嘛這個就偏鄉離島嘛對不對我記得我當國大代表的時候啊我去總統府李登輝總統召見他說你們馬祖人啊那麼少"},{"start":10086.004,"end":10113.376,"text":"沒幾戶嘛你把馬祖那個搬到台灣來我們蓋國民住宅給你就好了花那麼多錢搞機場高碼都幹什麼李登輝總統這樣的想法我們回來以後講給老闆一定罵翻了我跟你講今天就跟川普總統講啊格陵蘭島我就是要你是不是你什麼格陵蘭沒幾個人嘛我就要你格陵蘭啊可以這樣嗎"},{"start":10115.795,"end":10145.005,"text":"這兩天我們前政務委員張景生先生發表一個謬論他說 桃園的高鐵為什麼要地下化為什麼要地下化台鐵地下化還是高鐵高鐵本來在桃園有地下化要地下化 多五六百億吧他不需要 問題正在通過啦那今天馬九大橋多少年了"},{"start":10147.394,"end":10164.087,"text":"這個案子是賴院長在任最後一天我們總統啊 我跑到行政院找他為什麼 張景生政委在上面寫了一大堆的字我找古拉斯 那時候還是發言人賴前總統很理喻我很像在開會吧 跑出來"},{"start":10174.09,"end":10203.143,"text":"他找那個張哲偉把那個字除掉他寫了一大堆啊除掉啊然後這個案把它確立是賴總統任院長的時候把它批定 核定的喔核定 所以花了一億五千萬來做可行性的評估那今天已經多少年下來了你說是工程技術的問題技術也沒問題啊什麼時代了還在扯技術啊"},{"start":10204.141,"end":10230.878,"text":"你台灣不要被人家笑死好不好三公里在講技術喔 笑死人啦然後講經費的問題經費最近世襲也出包了嘛 對不對我們台電六接從一百多億 兩百多億 三百多億一直加 一直加 一直加 疊加說虛編那我今天早上還跟鄭裕萌董事長通電話"},{"start":10233.444,"end":10260.823,"text":"你這個馬祖大橋從八十幾億 七十幾億搞到一百多億 兩百多億 三百多億 四百多億那麼你講什麼四千億好了 不要做了怎麼可以這樣子搞呢部長我請問你到底做還是不做不要再拖了我們目前都還在程序的過程所以當時的政策方向就是往前走嘛你聽一下 昨天公路總局什麼意思我要你們十一月份開會"},{"start":10262.571,"end":10288.12,"text":"你們十一月份開會 我正好pass過去了 我沒空我說十二月份開會 我要去你們十二月份會就不開了現在是幾月 一月是不是你們去了一張公文給連江縣政府請連江縣政府去調查我們的原住民去調查這個橋要不要蓋你們在講什麼啊你問這東西幹什麼 我請問你"},{"start":10291.857,"end":10313.931,"text":"跟委員報告就是11月開完第一次工作會議完之後那委員在也這個關切說第二次會議的時候要來參加那我這邊也一直在籌備第二次會議啦那因為我說每個月開一次啊你們有沒有反對啊你現在第二個月了你不開然後現在在執行台上面回答我說在籌備"},{"start":10314.741,"end":10341.306,"text":"跟委員報告並不是這個不開因為第一次會議這個開完之後也是希望說這個第二次會議能夠如期來做這一個進行啦好 你要連江縣政府說這個橋蓋還是不蓋什麼意思跟委員報告下因為當時院核複有一些意見要再做檢討再做這個確認所以這個部分的話誰核複嘛 誰核複嘛這個院核複的這個意見下來那有些因為你們是誰囉你跟我拿給我看"},{"start":10343.696,"end":10354.934,"text":"跟我們報告一下就是說這些意見我不曉得行政院裡面有多少個張景生啊張景生現在是誰啊他是政委員嗎他只是一個老百姓而已你知道嗎"},{"start":10356.36,"end":10382.461,"text":"他在網路上隨便寫一些文章我當一個立法委員就要回答他問題喔很像說我腦殘啊是不是這樣跟張前政委的意見無關怎麼會無關呢因為這個案子就陳武剛剛部長所提的部分是在程序當中因為有報上去然後這個意見必須要再做檢討那我們現在跟縣府也在就是說相關的一個意見的檢討卻張景深政委已經打臉賴清德總統"},{"start":10385.848,"end":10411.685,"text":"他認為這不可行 你賴清德總統你這個腦袋有問題他在打臉他了你們政務體系的政務官你們不用替賴總統來講話嗎你們不用解釋一下什麼原因嗎是不是馬祖未來的前途就在這裡你們怎麼可以這樣子部長你回答我 到底編還是不編"},{"start":10413.069,"end":10427.025,"text":"你編還是不編你講清楚報告員不做就算了你講一句話現在還沒有到編跟不編的點那要拖多久因為現在行政院你拖到國民黨執政還是拖到共產黨執政你要拖到什麼時候"},{"start":10428.697,"end":10457.414,"text":"我們還是按照程序在走啦程序走八年啦交通部在努力的過程您也都參與在內您應該很清楚交通部一直程序一直往前在走啦你部長失職嘛你部長為什麼這個案子可以讓他拖那麼久你部長有問題啊交通的建設尤其這種大型的建設不是交通部說可以就可以不是 你不敢跟院長反映嗎"},{"start":10458.513,"end":10487.924,"text":"你不敢跟總統報告嗎這個案子怎麼可以這樣拖那麼久陳允聖在先不是沒有聲音耶我現在每一次的質疑我都要提到這個馬嘴大喬我每一個案子在政府部門都會有很嚴謹的審查哪一次不嚴謹嘛你說嘛交通部的部分花了一億五千萬耶花了一億五千萬不嚴謹嗎錢都花完了耶白花花的銀子你現在不找司機重新再去整理一下是不是要三百八十億嘛你問清楚嘛"},{"start":10489.212,"end":10516.098,"text":"是不是 前面有個台鐵的不是台電的六階的工程已經虛編了嘛你到底虛編了多少嘛你把真實的這個預算把它呈現嘛好不好我們不是不考慮啦好不好我來找世西也討論一下啦好 另外一個喔講到公安署那個福山局長你也在我問公安署他說你們錢沒有到位給他們"},{"start":10519.434,"end":10522.623,"text":"我們觀光署的補助倒退了台灣好行"},{"start":10525.325,"end":10551.304,"text":"以前給一千萬一年現在給四百萬你要我們公關倒退是不是包委員在新的這個財化法裡面確實公路局能夠補助給地方的財化法不會少你一毛錢我跟福山局長保證其實真的有少我是國民黨的立委我站在這裡這裡是交通委員會我保證不會少你一毛錢我保證沒關係我一個人可以打十幾二十個"},{"start":10552.506,"end":10559.176,"text":"我不諱言啦我們國民黨黨團這邊我也沒關係啦我一定會幫你們講這話但是你全部人少"},{"start":10560.27,"end":10586.51,"text":"你不能少你這個錢不能少好不好少了多少是不是我請局長回答報告委員大概就是我昨天跟你報告就是說以往這個公務局供應這個經費好啦你昨天講過了啦你把錢給公安署公安署把錢給地方就這麼回事啦但問題是他沒錢你說錢他你錢沒給會給嘛給完以後你馬上就要給了好不好可是問題是他沒有錢就不只我們一個縣市挖挖叫欸各縣市都在挖挖叫好不好"},{"start":10587.916,"end":10612.628,"text":"還有那個橋子那個工程做一半放那邊公安署你們錢要給錢啊橋子頭端就大邱橋那裡有沒有頭端啊頭端的預算啊案子還沒完"},{"start":10615.472,"end":10637.185,"text":"這個應該是跟縣政府還在討論啦兩邊還在討論部長 馬祖大橋的預算我今年要看到你們上預算還有福山局長你這邊你要通知我開會喔再忙我都會去你不通知我開會就會生氣喔我要注意交通部你們在幹什麼好不好 謝謝謝謝陳雪生委員發言完畢"},{"start":10643.083,"end":10655.568,"text":"好 謝謝陳雪生委員我們接下來請何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在"},{"start":10656.956,"end":10673.029,"text":"我們也特別謝謝邱若驊委員臨時通知你趕過來因為何欣淳委員因有要事沒有來發言所以特別請你們黨團助理請你趕過來不好意思那我們現在請邱若驊委員發言"},{"start":10682.654,"end":10687.981,"text":"謝謝主席 請交通部陳部長也請鐵道局楊局長請陳部長 請楊局長委員好部長好"},{"start":10698.116,"end":10723.829,"text":"部長今天首先要和部長還有局長討論鐵路地下化那依鐵道局公開資料看起來桃園鐵路地下化目前的關鍵不在於明年有沒有錢而是已經編列的經費它執行不順那其中CJ13站中壢站它歷經了五次的流標那延宕也超過了一年才決標那這延宕不只影響中壢站本身它也影響南端CJ17站平正端"},{"start":10724.309,"end":10747.345,"text":"那平震端的部分他完工後是否能夠通車那想請教局長部長那目前在這個排程中是否已經將CJ13站他這個中壢站他列為主要影響整體進度的關鍵標案報告委員13是桃園 17才是中壢那目前的標標的進度我請局長回答"},{"start":10748.327,"end":10775.47,"text":"跟委員報告其實CJ17是我們中立站那這個CJ17在113年3月就已經決標那現在都在這個積極的進行相關的工程當中那CJ17其實在這個目前為止原來決標金額是156億到目前為止已經執行了15億多所以我想在115年度我們這個工程還是有需要"},{"start":10776.29,"end":10798.142,"text":"後續的一些經費來做支援有沒有去做評估它之後會有什麼影響嗎因為目前它延宕一年中壢已經延宕一年了沒有錯嗎那它會影響它後續平震端這個個人平震端的因為平震是臨時站的平震臨時站的部分我們在今年10月會按照這個目標啟程來通車啟用"},{"start":10800.783,"end":10827.213,"text":"那地下化的這個路段呢現在爆出去的修正計畫呢是全縣市在122年要能夠完工通車所以沒有任何一個車站可以落掉也就是說不管哪個車站先做後做其實我們是按照工程的躍進來去做安排的那今天主要會有這個問題是因為那過去有多個標案它是流標的流標嘛那也不是因為預算沒有通過的關係吧不是這個關係沒有錯吧"},{"start":10829.403,"end":10842.883,"text":"對 那因為在前年就絕標了是因為單價變低而且它風險高所以廠商不願意投標那我們現在來看115年的預算別列和相關工程的標案定價是否已經有反映最新的營建物價指數"},{"start":10844.858,"end":10861.011,"text":"他有沒有反映在最新的營建物價指數有 就是我們現在修正的已經發包的這些標都是有按照最新的這個營建行情物價指數去完成發包那後續我們現在還有內力鳳鳴"},{"start":10863.072,"end":10875.618,"text":"這個三個標案在等待發報那這個部分的話就是要等修正計畫來通過那目前來看的話呢還在我們的掌控期程當中但我們期望今年下半年可以完成內地站的這樣的一個發報"},{"start":10876.713,"end":10895.136,"text":"是了解那因為中立站是全線最困難的一區嘛那他起步也算晚那因為他經歷中間也經歷5次的流標那他有嚴重影響壓縮影響到電機的電機進場的時間那目前憑證斷的他局長他的進度是正常的嗎憑證斷現在進度正常"},{"start":10897.1,"end":10921.79,"text":"另外在113年的時候我們有到桃園進行考察當時本席有向部長提到大溪就是我們地方桃園的捷運綠線希望能夠延伸到大溪大溪老街道到河東局長這邊有沒有掌握進度還有狀況我所知桃園市政府應該還沒有把修正後的報告送進來"},{"start":10922.56,"end":10932.812,"text":"所以那我這邊了解到是他們去年年底就已經修正後宋經理那可能對不起我可能回頭再確認一下如果宋經理我們會按照程序來做這個必要的一些審查"},{"start":10933.157,"end":10958.343,"text":"是那部長這邊因為當時113年我們有進行地方考察那地方一直很希望大溪不只是到就是河溪因為大溪地形的關係您也知道有分河東跟河溪我們希望這條捷運綠線呢它也可以過橋到河東那技術上面其實還有一些困難所以這邊希望能夠支持才能帶動大溪整體的觀光還有交通的效益"},{"start":10958.903,"end":10969.564,"text":"是 報告委員現在已經送進來那個鐵道局了嘛那鐵道局會來進行審議那這個部分細節我們再來想辦法來協助我們現在部裡面也在審查當中了"},{"start":10969.926,"end":10988.717,"text":"OK好那另外接下來要和部長討論就是剛剛我們討論到桃園鐵路地下化那我們來看工程執行方面的監管問題那這個施工期間他一定會產生大量的土方那一直以來就是我們避免亂到土方的問題嘛那國土署他也規定土方車輛都要裝設GPS"},{"start":10990,"end":11011.369,"text":"那目前國土署還有環境部對GPS的規範還在討論中那業界也都知道這套系統它其實是有漏洞的所以這邊也提出要求那交通部作為車輛的主管機關必須解決技術性上面的困難嗎那我們先來看到部長您知道有市面上有一個東西它叫做車窗型的GPS感染器嗎"},{"start":11012.879,"end":11034.149,"text":"車窗型的干擾器 車窗型的GPS干擾器那這樣的干擾這樣的干擾器他一個幾千塊他插上去之後訊號就會斷了那現在GPS他本身的監控平台是被動的那訊息訊息斷了之後呢他只會顯示異常得到承辦人員發現異常之後土方早就被倒在不該倒的地方那另外還有ABG的問題"},{"start":11035.149,"end":11051.164,"text":"那有一些不肖的業者他會他會有這個ABG一台是他乖乖跑他的路線那另外一台呢他裝在另外一台車上那這邊想請教部長那未來我們大型的交通公共建設我們是不是可以來研議就是把訊號中斷視同為違規寫到合約裡面"},{"start":11056.768,"end":11076.265,"text":"報告委員因為這個土方的管理是內政部國土署在管理的所以今天要和部長討論是車輛因為車輛管理是在我們交通部是監理機關車輛本身的安全跟規格那個管理是我們但是實際上這個土方的GPS的這個管控的部分是國土署"},{"start":11076.505,"end":11101.895,"text":"因為現在有進行討論嘛 是不是希望中央跟地方他們都可以來 就是地方也有一套他們GPS的管理系統那中央這邊也有 那我們現在要討論中央的部分借接的是內政部國土署他的資料不會進到我們公路局這邊來對 那現在我們現在討論說這個GPS他裝載 現在砂石車他們也要定期做檢驗的嘛那這個機器要怎麼來做檢驗呢我請局長回答好了"},{"start":11103.178,"end":11123.255,"text":"這個部分我跟委員報告一下因為這個GPS的一個部分的話它基本上就是一個軌跡的定位然後跟訊號的這個花色那這個相關的一個運作燈的部分在這個國土署那邊或是地方政府現在採雙軌他們都有一個這個平台在做控管那另外我也跟委員報告一下"},{"start":11123.735,"end":11149.722,"text":"像現行毒化物按照環境部的要求都必須要裝GPS所以它整個車機的規格因為他們都必須要裝GPS那我剛才也提到就是有這個GPS的干擾器它不一定是它只要訊號一出現斷點那我們再後續討論誰來做誰來做管理誰來做追查那像計程車它是不是有跳表對那這個跳表是誰管的計程車跳表這個簽網的部分是經濟部標準檢驗局"},{"start":11150.956,"end":11179.501,"text":"那計程車是不是都要定期也是回到就是監理機關對 但是監理機關的檢驗是就車輛安全的部分我知道委員的意思是說我們這個在檢驗的時候檢驗人員可不可以這個幫忙去看一下這個GPS是不是這個OK不OK的部分我跟委員報告一下因為這個部分的話這個基本上就是說GPS這個系統是不是這個運作正常的部分那個是實際運作狀況的部分"},{"start":11179.981,"end":11196.273,"text":"那交通部這邊有沒有辦法來做跟我有辦法真的是沒有辦法因為那個系統因為車輛本身安全的部分我們有一套這個法規在這個依照法規來做這個檢驗那像GPS它裝在裡面的話真的"},{"start":11197.434,"end":11226.003,"text":"第一個部分不是屬於車輛安全的項目那第二個部分的話其實外保看得說有裝一個GPS在那邊但是這個一上路之後是因為就近期的會議國土署跟環境部他們也有邀集交通部嘛對對對對那交通部這邊負責的選擇是什麼在幾次會議裡面大概就是裝GPS的部分的話大概就是回歸他們那個那因為在幾次會議有討論到就是剛剛這個委員簡報裡面有提到說小貨車可不可以開放來這個在土方砂石"},{"start":11226.423,"end":11245.737,"text":"那這個部分的話我跟委報告所以就當天交通部這邊完全沒有討論到GPS的經驗對對對因為我這邊順便跟委報告一下那如果那發生我剛才提到的A B G的狀況你們要這個責任歸屬在誰這個部分這個就是國土署就會依他們的規定來開罰國土署嗎對對對國土署會依規定開罰"},{"start":11247.958,"end":11268.803,"text":"OK 好 那剛剛就鐵道局的部分再請楊局長這邊會後再提供相關的資料就是有關我們桃園鐵路地下化的進度OK 然後還有大溪的我們桃園捷運綠線延伸延伸的案 OK好 謝謝委員好 謝謝邱若驊委員發言完畢現在請廖先祥委員發言"},{"start":11278.73,"end":11289.485,"text":"謝謝主席 一樣麻煩邀請我們部長還有我們鐵道局楊局長請楊局長台鐵公司請鄭光源董事長還有公路局局長請林虎山局長"},{"start":11291.766,"end":11310.506,"text":"委員好部長好今天也算是這個會期最後一次委員會開會了那我想還是來盤點一下我這個選區內的重大的交通建設的一些現況跟我們未來的一個的一個這個可能預估的規劃那簡單的看能不能跟我簡單說明一下第一個就是我們的"},{"start":11312.227,"end":11335.413,"text":"這個台六十二線延伸萬里金山的部分還有宜蘭的部分這可能都有經過我的選區那第二個就是這個台北民生線捷運的部分的一個現在整合的一個過程那就先請我們看部長還是局長沒關係都可以首先跟委員報告就是說我們關鍵那個台六十二往西往東的部分那這兩個計畫我們都是按照這個目標時程在推進這個當中"},{"start":11336.753,"end":11350.299,"text":"那這一個就是說往西的部分那大概我們也在規劃就是說這一個前島工程包括景美路還有那個另外一條就是彎道下面去以後要出土的那個部分我們也在規劃要拖寬"},{"start":11350.868,"end":11369.848,"text":"然後那另外廣東的部分那這個院裡面也非常這個陳志文那邊也非常這個關切也在關切說如何相關的這個期程可以在這一個加速那這兩個計畫的部分這可能環評啊或是綜合國家報告或是氣色相關的期程有沒有相關的一些進度或者是預計可以跟民眾來說明"},{"start":11370.97,"end":11384.568,"text":"西部的部分我是不是會後提供一個書面資料給你因為兩個計劃有些細節的部分我再提供書面資料給你所以台六的網西原則上應該現在應該在重規跟環評當中那我們預計今年或明年可不可以走完"},{"start":11386.453,"end":11400.932,"text":"先導工程的部分我們是預計說明年可以有一個先導工程先導工程明年的部分先做先動工那廣東到投誠那個部分的話因為廣東這個可能行政院剛核定嘛那你們的重規跟環評大概哪時候要啟動"},{"start":11402.21,"end":11423.657,"text":"現在已經在做這個就是中規的招標的一個上網作業當中準備中規的招標的前置作業那個部分的話因為計畫比較大那個相關前置作業準備需要一點時間但是都是on schedule在做處理好 謝謝局長那接下來我們台北名勝縣的捷運是不是"},{"start":11424.98,"end":11452.112,"text":"局長可以說明一下我們現在之前有拜託我們鐵道局整合一下三四尤其是機場部分的一個經費分攤的一些問題不曉得我們現在的進度是怎麼樣跟委員報告就是明汐縣的要增設八堵機場的這樣的一個經費分攤因為它涉及到明汐縣這個計畫跟系統結緣計畫還有基隆結緣這個計畫那鐵道局在1月16號有召集相關單位來做開會演商"},{"start":11452.992,"end":11480.327,"text":"那當然因為這裡面的這個方案的分攤它的經費來說相對比較複雜一點但是我們有一個結論就是說基本上八堵機場的這個經費必須要納入明細縣的這個計畫裡面去做處理那怎麼樣去減少這個行政上的成本也就是說怎麼在明細縣這個計畫裡面呢可不可以透過不同的負擔比例來去做處理而不要去動到另外兩個計畫我覺得相對是比較複雜"},{"start":11481.648,"end":11504.193,"text":"所以我們後續還會再跟這個新北市政府還有台北市政府來做那我們預計下一次的會議我們預計哪時候要可能這段時間要收集資料整理一些大家意見那我們預計下一階段哪時候在藥急山的地方政府前一次是還沒有規劃我想我們再來催促一下這個新北市政府因為上一次您說1月16對不對對好不好你們應該是給一個期限然後請他們整理一下資料在一定的時間內我們再來積極的討論再拜託我們的局長再幫那個林局長先休息一下沒關係"},{"start":11510.054,"end":11526.112,"text":"好 那部長那我今天要跟您討論的另外一個是我們台鐵啦台鐵的一個運輸效率的問題因為我們的軌道現在就是這樣子那我們的其實在尖峰時刻那在北部的這個軌道容量的運輸大概都已經使用到達上限了啦那其實一直以來我們今天都有在講這個"},{"start":11528.254,"end":11553.574,"text":"避手區間的問題我們現在的台鐵原則上都是用固定式避手區間對不對那很多的民眾都提到說那我們有沒有辦法把它做一些規劃把它變成移動式的避手區間來增加我們鐵道的容量讓我們有可能有更多的車輛能夠通行那不曉得實務上這可能是民間的意見還是說我們有沒有做過相關的評估那它的可行性是怎麼樣子的"},{"start":11554.495,"end":11570.94,"text":"包委員 這個牽涉到耗資相關相當複雜的這個內容我在想說要不要請市長還是總經理這邊來因為我們軌道不沒關係 誰講都可以因為軌道不可能拓寬了嘛我們唯一有機會的就是就從耗資系統下去改變那有沒有機會那它或者說困難點在哪一邊我有麥克風"},{"start":11576.123,"end":11602.507,"text":"報告委員 就是移動式比賽的區間 剛剛委員講沒有錯我們現在就是固定比賽一個固定比賽大概1.5到2公里左右 是 那移動比賽現在目前針對傳統鐵路各國現在目前並沒有做到移動比賽 是 只有在捷運系統有做到CBTC就是列車互相通訊那這個部分在德國的這個Stuttgart"},{"start":11603.027,"end":11628.988,"text":"跟這個JR的系統現在有在做研究但都僅止於POC就是概念驗證的階段那所以目前如果要在台鐵來利用這種移動式比賽的系統耗制系統來提升運能短期是幾乎是不可能那我們有要做相關的研究嗎你說可能德國做一些研究或者說國外的研究的經驗我們有沒有在參考"},{"start":11630.117,"end":11645.178,"text":"有我們現在先前也都有透過跟幾位幾個高科大或是我們的中研院工研院都有集合相關專家學者有做過探討好像要"},{"start":11645.979,"end":11672.014,"text":"先做類參考國外的這個開發的經驗來做一個專案不過這個目前都還是在我想總經理意思表達應該是理論上可行但是實務上可能會因為可能列車種類太過複雜導致他在實施上面有一些困難但是這一點但是這個方案是唯一目前唯一可能增加我們鐵道運輸量能的唯一的方式"},{"start":11672.954,"end":11696.602,"text":"對就一個是透過移動B賽他也是會縮短列車間距另外一個是先前有討論過就是把B賽區間把它縮短但是B賽區間縮短必須要增加這個道旁的耗資系統所以那個投入的成本會很高好我想這部分也要可能請我們交通部支持一下鐵道剛剛有講過不可能拓寬的容量就這樣子我們"},{"start":11698.102,"end":11724.47,"text":"車已經就這麼多的在跑了我們也不可能再像高鐵一樣還可以加車對不對 台鐵還要有容量我們高鐵還有容量台鐵沒有容量對啊 那就是說在現有的條件下再拜託我們的部長公關運輸再請您多給無論是可能鐵道局做研究或者台鐵公司地線營運等等的我們再給一些支持 好不好那另外再提一個小的問題其實這個跟你的業務也沒什麼關係但是我是覺得你也可以盡一份心力的部分就是小樹市集你有沒有聽過"},{"start":11726.334,"end":11740.842,"text":"小樹市集小樹市集你沒聽過小樹市集他大概就是一個這個很多家長啦那些小朋友的東西換得很快嘛對不對那所以說他們就是有一些二手的一些小朋友的東西都會大家交流一下擺個攤那其實這個東西在雙北我"},{"start":11741.562,"end":11757.518,"text":"在雙北很盛行我不知道有沒有慢慢地往可能中南部去延伸那它就需要一個很大的公共的一個場域那其實在地方政府它都有支持那我有想其實我們交通部下面有台鐵對不對但是我們的台鐵因為我們是營運單位所以它都有一些"},{"start":11759.38,"end":11775.416,"text":"這個場地出租的辦法無論是盈利型的或是公益型的其實它這樣子的一個租金的收取模式它是沒有辦法讓小數市集在這邊去設置的因為小數市集它的本身的精神它並不是要賺錢或盈利而是基於資源永續爸爸媽媽覺得資源這個東西用沒幾次"},{"start":11778.439,"end":11797.852,"text":"大家來交換對 大家來交換一下這樣子的一個概念我是覺得大家可以評估一下因為我們地方政府既然都可以把這個空間拿出來來做爸爸媽媽的一個交流的場域我覺得我們台鐵我知道有現行的規定既然有現行的規定那我們就是要去做一些突破我覺得可以參考地方政府的一些經驗把我們的台鐵也可以跟友善育兒或者是"},{"start":11803.316,"end":11819.284,"text":"這個資源的永續利用去做一個結合啦我就是認為交通部這不是你的業務但是我認為這是你們或許可以做一件這個對國家也是有幫助的事情我們這個交通廠商的部分我們都一併來討論討論看有沒有這樣的可能性好 謝謝部長 謝謝各位長官謝謝主席謝謝廖青祥委員發言完畢現在請鄭天才委員發言"},{"start":11836.434,"end":11863.114,"text":"主席有請部長請陳部長還有觀光署請陳署長部長好委員好這個有關這個觀光發展條例本席要提修正條文這個交通部的意見認為這個原住民保留地及山地管制區在這個"},{"start":11865.583,"end":11893.446,"text":"自然人文生態景觀期這邊你們認為不宜刪除這個我來說這個發展光條例第二條對於自然人文生態景觀期刪除了並不表示在原住民保留地如果是符合這個自然人文生態景觀期這個定義的這樣的條件的"},{"start":11895.305,"end":11917.537,"text":"一樣可以 一樣可以 而只是說不要特別放在這裡最主要就是說 譬如說原住民保留地3T管制區以外的土地你符合的你還是要列為自然人文生態景觀區譬如說軍事管制區"},{"start":11919.133,"end":11943.31,"text":"有符合的還是要列入所以這個部分我們主條的時候也可以再討論但是我先說明你們回去之後再好好去了解第一個原住民保留地開發管理辦法對於原住民保留地有定義為保障原住民生計你把它放在這裡好像就影響了就會產生這樣的疑問"},{"start":11945.017,"end":11957.954,"text":"另外就是國家安全法對於3D管制期它主要的用意是在維護3D治安對不對然後你看這個尤其是後面這個"},{"start":11959.659,"end":11982.539,"text":"三地特定管制区三地管制区分两种一个经常的管制区一个是特定管制区特定管制区还特别提到游弃资源得抵抗人力从事观光旅游及正当娱乐活动所以这个部分会有一个汉格所以我删除了并不表示"},{"start":11983.533,"end":12010.744,"text":"就完全不能在原住民保留地來去只要符合這個自然生態這個部分當然就可以還是我們不會去動它是這樣你們再去評估一下下次審查條文的時候那因為時間的關係我還是直接跳到這個先從這邊談了那個跟公安署就沒有關係了"},{"start":12014.445,"end":12035.066,"text":"這個部長這個我已經提了很多次你也聽了很多次了因為115年度現在已經開始115年度了因為都沒有核定所以115年度也不可能了但是我們還是希望交通部能夠積極的跟"},{"start":12037.746,"end":12064.114,"text":"行政院溝通好因為你現在不核定的話你116年又不能編列預算會有這樣的一個情形這個狀況所以尤其是這個台鐵宜花東路段鐵路設施安全改善計畫有很重要的一個路段就是"},{"start":12065.438,"end":12082.55,"text":"核能到崇德這段而這段不論是鐵路或者是蘇花公路都連帶的關係是連帶的所以這個部分是一個在整個"},{"start":12085.638,"end":12113.93,"text":"花蓮台東很重要的一個路段所以這個部分一定要跟這個行政院做詳細的說明這個也沒有很多啦這個計畫也沒有像那個今天很多人談的這個要到高鐵的延伸不論是高鐵的延伸是到宜蘭還是到屏東"},{"start":12115.82,"end":12142.118,"text":"這個都小額課的經費是不是這樣 副長是 報告委員不管預算大或小但是安全的議題是很重要那這個部分我們會努力來跟行政院這邊來拜託跟溝通那希望可以趕快核定我們可以趕快來做對 因為因為基本上這個經費真的不多不是很大如果要去跟這個"},{"start":12144.531,"end":12158.22,"text":"這個高鐵的延伸來比當然高鐵延伸我們不反對啦那到底用什麼方式延伸這個就花蓮台東的人而言都是有幫助啦你延伸到屏東跟延伸到"},{"start":12159.79,"end":12184.095,"text":"到這個宜蘭對花蓮台東也都有幫助都會比較近比較方便對所以這個部分是延伸的方式怎麼樣那是我們都不反對但是就這個安全就花蓮台東而言無論是鐵路或是公路的安全的部分這個真的是非常非常的重要所以這個部分要請這個部長"},{"start":12185.1,"end":12204.34,"text":"我們會來跟行政院來爭取因為這個對花東鄉親來說很重要這個尤其是安全的問題特別重要現在已經反正一百一十五年度也來不及編預算早一點核定就一百一十六也是明年的預算了好不好好我們來努力 謝謝委員"},{"start":12206.397,"end":12230.982,"text":"好謝謝鄭天才委員發言完畢現在請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在現在請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在現在請林柱英委員林柱英委員林柱英委員不在現在請張雅玲委員發言"},{"start":12240.917,"end":12267.712,"text":"謝謝主席我們有請部長請陳部長委員好部長我先請教一個問題就是對於最新人非常關注的一個題目就是去年的時候我們有說我們要編列這個預算辦那個國際的大型的演唱會要吸引更多人來參可以讓我們的台灣最新人也可以觀賞對不對但是現在的總預算有到底上次我們這一條有被提出來討論嗎"},{"start":12269.355,"end":12298.409,"text":"我們在整體裡面有沒有放進來應該是有放進來有放進來我是在總預算的這個那我可以請署長來回答嗎好光屬的年度新增計畫裡面光屬的年度新增計畫裡面他當然是很重要的一件事情不過在上次有特別提出來討論的幾個案件裡面我們沒有備函在裡面"},{"start":12299.042,"end":12325.882,"text":"你們沒有被含在捏也就是說原本交通部要做觀光署要做一個大型的這個國際的演唱會不僅可以帶動台灣的觀光然後也可以讓台灣的人追台灣的追星人受益的這件事情呢是被國民黨跟民眾黨給忽視的對嗎 我這樣的理解正確嗎對嗎 部長所以等於是我們的全體國人的這個追星人的權益因此而受損 對嗎"},{"start":12327.234,"end":12352.166,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們還有在總預算裡面但是沒有被列出來是優先的這一塊總預算我們有編啦就是總預算沒有省也就省了但是因為它總預算它沒有優先然後也沒有省沒錯所以這個部分我們的權益確實受到影響我們本來是計畫因為坦白講理解演唱會的人都知道這個需要一段時間的爭取跟溝通我知道去年就已經在做這個洽談是我們前置的作業盡量能夠提早"},{"start":12352.406,"end":12373.727,"text":"但是预算没有下来基本上我们现在要跟国外的艺人或者是公安公司等等去沟通的时候就会遇到很大的困难所以这个确实应该档期都不可能巧了很难巧应该是今年要落空了会非常非常不好做坦白讲这个确实会影响到我们争取国际的这个标杆旗舰型的演唱会受到很大的影响"},{"start":12374.911,"end":12395.984,"text":"對 所以我想就是這個對於全體的最新人來說是我們非常關注的一件事情可是這件事情卻因為我們的國民黨到民眾黨到這個禮拜還不審總預算那甚至這件事情也沒有被提出來討論而造成了全體國人的受益那我想這件事情是非常不OK的一件事情那接下來我就要針對這一次的審查觀光發展條例上面來跟部長做更多的討論就是部長我想跟"},{"start":12397.424,"end":12423.949,"text":"跟您提一下就是國際不然是Grandview Research或是President's Research上面都有講到我們的全球的生態旅遊產值是相當高的甚至從我們自己的2024年的年度報告也都發現我們有65%的人是非常喜歡是非常喜歡來參加這個台灣的生態旅遊我們的自然景觀其實是非常有競爭力的那"},{"start":12426.169,"end":12446.81,"text":"所以呢我們在2002年的時候呢當時其實是有做了一個生態旅遊白皮書但是就沒有之後了那我們現在遇到一個困境就是說生態旅遊在全世界這麼的發達那國外的旅客也很喜歡來看可是我們現在生態旅遊分散在國家公園法發展觀光條例和森林法"},{"start":12447.35,"end":12458.506,"text":"不同的法規裡面有不同的部會各自去管理那雖然說2002年有這個跨部會的小組提出了這樣子的一個白皮書那當初的建議事項其實都已經達成了"},{"start":12459.431,"end":12477.779,"text":"但是這麼多年過去了我們還是遇到了很多的食物上的問題也就是說現在社區有自主的協會培訓居民來擔任導覽員像是阿里山 拉拉山 宜蘭結合了農作體驗跟步道健行的一些主題課程強調低衝擊旅遊和在地飲食來吸引了我們所謂的國際的旅客"},{"start":12478.619,"end":12505.336,"text":"第二個部分還有跨區域的聯盟整合像是台灣生態旅遊與地方創生聯盟整合了65個社區把一些林山的景點串聯起來像是六龜的三半路線來提供更多的半日遊業遊等多元選擇第三種還有我們這幾年講的希望可以回鄉創業返鄉青年他們其實也透過政府的補助把我們一些林山的景觀跟文化品牌化來平衡保育跟獲利"},{"start":12506.417,"end":12530.416,"text":"那現在就有一個最大的爭議在於許多的社區旅遊產品因為沒有取得旅行社的執照而被檢舉所以這些返鄉青年因為常常遇到這些所謂的檢舉是非違法經營那不勝其擾的團隊其實最後就是會放棄他原本經營的這個產品跟這個路線那有一些人可能就會轉成地下化那或是借用旅行社的牌照並支付佣金"},{"start":12531.437,"end":12559.066,"text":"那這個其實都會也會影響到政府的稅收啦那同時呢過度的生態旅遊可能也沒有考慮到環境負載量的一個問題那反而讓我們喪失生態的一個資源所以我請教一下部長就是說在我們現在沒有一個專責法制的架構之下那我們要如何確保我們的生態旅遊不會變成一般的觀光包裝而已然後甚至因此而造成我們的環境生態受到影響不曉得說部長你的想法是什麼"},{"start":12559.446,"end":12581.642,"text":"是 報告委員您剛剛所說的問題其實觀光署也有發現到這樣的狀況那這段時間其實蠻多人在反映這樣的議題那這個部分我覺得觀光署可以做出一個討論或者是引導的方向看怎麼讓大家比較有方向可以去依循那不過像委員剛剛有提到一個很重要的現在管轄的單位可能分散在各個部會"},{"start":12582.603,"end":12600.763,"text":"那我請觀光署這邊可以來統合討論一下不一定全部的管理權限都能夠拉在觀光署這邊但是統合討論一下我覺得這是應該要開啟的動作因為我們沒有開啟這樣子的動作對於很多想要參與這方面的觀光遊程的人來說會是非常困擾的會是非常困擾"},{"start":12602.945,"end":12621.185,"text":"而且我們也沒有整體去思考說我們的大自然的承載量可以承載到什麼程度沒有一個總體的規劃或許觀光署來開啟這樣的討論甚至在我們的政觀之裡面是不是可以來做這樣子的題目的討論這樣可以跨部會來做一個討論跟決定我覺得會是比較好的方向"},{"start":12621.445,"end":12644.367,"text":"好 因為我想就是說今天那邊地下經濟對旅客也沒有保障那今天沒有做好環境層載量評估對於生態永續發展也有不好的一個影響啦所以我想就是剛剛部長我非常感謝就是你願意開始來這樣子的討論因為我想我也提供一個案例來作為參考就是說其實澳洲呢它也有相關的從聯邦層級到地方州政府"},{"start":12645.107,"end":12670.863,"text":"都有一個相對的一個法規跟管理機制的認證那我覺得這也是可以提供我們的專通部啦觀光所這邊是不是可以來去更進一步的提出具體的生態旅遊政策目標然後搭配我們的流程簡化還有受保護區的評估指引以及原住民合作的一個機制讓我們的生態旅遊有門檻有誘因也有清楚的管理邏輯那"},{"start":12673.157,"end":12689.146,"text":"再來就是說我們在哥斯大利加還特別加入了一個環境影響性評估所以我想剛剛部長其實也有承諾了那我想我們大概多久的時候可以有一個研議或是評估是不是要往這個方向繼續來前進我們三個月的時間來評估這件事好不好"},{"start":12690.687,"end":12714.38,"text":"包含我們這個政官制的部分看有沒有辦法來做這樣子的提案我們上個月左右來評估那我也希望可以一併討論一件事情他有沒有需要進入修法這是不是也可以一併來評估好不好 謝謝修法陳明文也一併討論 謝謝委員好 謝謝張雅玲委員發言完畢現在請游皓委員游皓委員游皓委員不在現在請陳冠廷委員發言"},{"start":12721.57,"end":12722.074,"text":"好我們請部長請陳部長"},{"start":12729.707,"end":12754.781,"text":"委員好部長好部長上一次我們諮詢的時候主要是針對這個鐵路高架化的部分那現在嘉義民雄還有這個雲林的斗六他們都在推動鐵路高架化那當然這對城市安全交通流暢都有很有的幫助不過在大嶺這一段這一段他可能會在整體的路線完工後他會出現下來又上去的這個狀況"},{"start":12755.982,"end":12776.854,"text":"那這個部分我們認為說對他的長期的整體規劃還有城鎮的發展那或許工程的一致性他可能會不利所以我在去年的11月13日在這邊跟部長有討論過大連的高階化的規劃那我們今天還是再次的這個正式的再請部長來支持"},{"start":12778.015,"end":12794.376,"text":"那部長朵六市區的鐵路立體化的可行性研究在劉建國委員的推動之下還有協同還有協調交通部在14年12月24號已經將修正後的報告交下到鐵道局那現在我想"},{"start":12795.417,"end":12812.015,"text":"確認一下鐵道局現在依審查的要點正在做審查的作業當中應該沒有錯現在還在繼續的在推動當中上一次我們提到的時候部長有提到說啟動立體化跟高價化的評估需要由我們縣府這邊來提出嗎是沒錯"},{"start":12813.777,"end":12842.495,"text":"那縣府這邊的提出當然是他必須要有做這件事情之後我們才有後續的規劃但我理解但是我在想說初步規劃的可行性研究是不是可以先從這個邀請部長先來大臨後跟我們的技術官僚一起來走一走跟縣府先辦理這個座談會跟縣弟會談也就是說我們先把這個中央的輔助規則地方的提案要件那如果要做的這些期程節點一次先來講"},{"start":12843.416,"end":12865.472,"text":"那我們當然是還是要縣府來去做這些提案不過如果由部長跟交通部的這些官員我們先就這個可行性大概先有一個事先的磋商事先的討論限定的這個場刊之後我們一次把這個節點這樣講清楚那後續縣府他們推出來的這個方案我相信也會更專業而且更符合行政效率不知道部長怎麼看"},{"start":12866.432,"end":12894.936,"text":"報告委員這個部分確實是要由地方政府來提出那如果需要跟地方政府來做溝通或者是事先的討論我們都很願意跟地方政府來做事先的討論那嘉義縣政府如果有這樣的需求我們就來跟他們討論好那我這邊就會特別請這個不管是證供所也好縣府也好那還有這個交通部我們就來這個戳上一個時間點我們先來看一下這個可行性是怎麼樣然後我們再來去推動這個部分"},{"start":12895.396,"end":12914.97,"text":"那部長這個我是希望未來交通部把大連它視為一個補齊路廊一致性的這個安全的重要節點它不要碎片化的去處理那因為現在從斗六或者是民雄大連這些如果我們用整體的這個用國家的視角用中央的高度去看的話"},{"start":12915.791,"end":12937.342,"text":"那我們能夠把它的完整性做得更好因為如果只是由因為其實現在各縣市交通應該是一體化來去考量的那不是說我這個雲林縣的斗六我這邊要把它處理好所以我就處理這個就是治標嘛這個也是治標但是如果我們要整體來考量的話其實交通部在事先的參與"},{"start":12938.382,"end":12964.287,"text":"那就可以甚至是可以省下很多行政作業的這個流程所以這個部分我們也是非常感謝部長的支持那我們會再另外再邀約所有的小樂觀單位一起來參與好謝謝部長好謝謝委員好謝謝陳冠廷委員發言完畢現在請葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員不在"},{"start":12966.377,"end":12986.44,"text":"登記諮詢委員均已發言完畢 作以下決定報告及詢討完畢委員劉雪婷所提書面之提案說明委員陳樹岳 游浩 林建啟 魯明哲 劉雪婷 何欣淳所提書面諮詢列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":12987.56,"end":13015.548,"text":"委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆針對本日會議討論事項做以下決議討論事項個案均另定期繼續審查本會本會期最後一次會議意思錄授權主席核定後確定"},{"start":13016.516,"end":13032.673,"text":"本次會議結束散會在這邊也謝謝我們交通委員會的議事工作人員謝謝媒體朋友謝謝交通部所屬官員那今天是交通委員會最後一天的開會謝謝大家祝大家新年快樂"},{"start":13050.435,"end":13055.384,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":13070.255,"end":13083.518,"text":"副主席"},{"start":13092.079,"end":13093,"text":"謝謝 謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"167330","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167330","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88c30e74f18ff838a152fd623850d83d5bef4d1ce49928203b332e030545e112f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:16:58 - 11:44:31","影片長度":"00:27:33","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:16:58+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:44:31+08:00","duration":1653,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.81971875,"end":4.7897187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.92471875,"end":5.599718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.41346875,"end":10.290968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.62846875,"end":17.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.47534375,"end":18.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.38659375,"end":20.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.98971875,"end":24.887843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.32721875,"end":21.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.145343750000002,"end":29.140343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.566593750000003,"end":46.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.69721875,"end":30.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.895343750000002,"end":31.739093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.24721875,"end":53.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.368468750000005,"end":71.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.30659375,"end":75.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.79596875,"end":73.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.30596875,"end":85.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.14096875,"end":80.27159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.03034375,"end":86.80221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.48159375,"end":87.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.51096875,"end":87.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.65846875000001,"end":89.94096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.09284375,"end":92.92784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.97846875,"end":103.00221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.42409375000001,"end":104.26784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.31409375000001,"end":106.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.76534375,"end":109.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.46534375,"end":111.67596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.21596875,"end":123.50534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.18034375,"end":128.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.14596875,"end":129.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.43284375000002,"end":128.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.22596875000002,"end":131.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.79096875000002,"end":132.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.95096875000002,"end":135.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.75659375,"end":158.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.70659375,"end":161.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.54159375,"end":170.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.11784375000002,"end":180.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.18409375000002,"end":183.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.86721875,"end":186.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.70221875000001,"end":187.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.81596875000002,"end":190.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.07284375,"end":195.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.57409375,"end":202.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.49284375000002,"end":207.20534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.01534375,"end":209.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.55096875,"end":209.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.14159375000003,"end":213.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.19596875000002,"end":225.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.12221875,"end":239.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.34784375,"end":241.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.59221875000003,"end":242.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.45284375000003,"end":244.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.15721875000003,"end":247.26659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.63784375,"end":257.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.03284375000004,"end":268.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.18721875,"end":275.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.17346875000004,"end":283.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.20159375000003,"end":293.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.62221875,"end":296.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.13221875,"end":309.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.94034375,"end":313.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.97346875,"end":314.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.39534375,"end":317.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.90534375000004,"end":320.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.49971875,"end":323.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.80721875,"end":328.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.29596875000004,"end":350.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.67659375,"end":350.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.98034375000003,"end":366.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.02846875,"end":389.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.97846875000005,"end":417.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.80534375,"end":419.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.81346875,"end":421.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.61909375000005,"end":422.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.83409375,"end":424.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.73659375000005,"end":431.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.33909375,"end":433.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.08159375,"end":432.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.36846875000003,"end":432.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.45284375000006,"end":443.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.53159375,"end":451.96034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.31596875,"end":444.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.68596875000003,"end":475.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.56846875,"end":478.08284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.50471875000005,"end":480.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.29346875000005,"end":482.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.11159375000005,"end":483.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.55034375,"end":502.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.29909375000005,"end":498.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.58159375,"end":500.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.11721875,"end":509.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.05784375,"end":503.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.13346875,"end":505.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.16284375000004,"end":507.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.74909375000004,"end":508.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.57159375000003,"end":510.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.29721875,"end":512.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.9128437500001,"end":513.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.8872187500001,"end":546.0890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.62909375,"end":554.1215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.8640937499999,"end":577.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.6115937500001,"end":588.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.20471875,"end":601.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.84409375,"end":633.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.51846875,"end":638.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.82971875,"end":661.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.45909375,"end":679.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.02596875,"end":680.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.59971875,"end":684.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.15596875,"end":689.2903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.18471875,"end":704.5959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.50721875,"end":707.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.2409687500001,"end":723.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.79159375,"end":726.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.6984687500001,"end":724.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.9765937500001,"end":746.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.9422187499999,"end":730.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.7690937500001,"end":731.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":734.8022187500001,"end":734.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.58096875,"end":749.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.53409375,"end":754.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.54659375,"end":752.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.6809687500001,"end":794.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.58784375,"end":760.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":794.79284375,"end":814.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":814.9922187500001,"end":822.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":822.0290937500001,"end":826.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.3828437500001,"end":830.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":830.68596875,"end":844.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":844.9115937500001,"end":846.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.1940937500001,"end":846.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.0378437500001,"end":848.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":849.0459687500002,"end":849.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":849.26534375,"end":855.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":853.5178437500001,"end":853.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":855.44159375,"end":856.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":856.4709687500001,"end":859.9978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":858.2934687500001,"end":868.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":865.54971875,"end":865.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":868.94159375,"end":882.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":873.3459687500001,"end":873.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":874.52721875,"end":875.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.1384687500001,"end":879.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":882.6272187500001,"end":882.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.69471875,"end":882.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":882.9309687500001,"end":882.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.94784375,"end":885.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":882.98159375,"end":887.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":888.01034375,"end":902.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":894.1528437500001,"end":894.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":902.9953437500001,"end":907.6865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":907.9565937500001,"end":914.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":909.25596875,"end":913.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":915.31409375,"end":915.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":915.34784375,"end":915.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":915.44909375,"end":915.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":915.46596875,"end":915.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":915.5503437500001,"end":915.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":915.6684687500001,"end":929.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":915.73596875,"end":916.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":928.71284375,"end":937.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":932.74596875,"end":934.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":938.1965937500001,"end":939.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":939.4115937500001,"end":943.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":943.42784375,"end":959.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":959.1384687500001,"end":959.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":959.2565937500001,"end":959.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":959.74596875,"end":969.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":969.4153437500001,"end":971.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":971.4909687500001,"end":971.9634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":971.9634687500002,"end":976.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":971.99721875,"end":972.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":972.03096875,"end":972.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":976.6040937500002,"end":979.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":979.05096875,"end":979.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":979.3884687500001,"end":986.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":986.08784375,"end":986.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":986.35784375,"end":990.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":990.0703437500001,"end":990.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":991.1672187500001,"end":991.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":991.28534375,"end":994.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":991.4709687500001,"end":991.7915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":994.5590937500001,"end":998.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1000.93784375,"end":1022.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1023.06096875,"end":1031.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1031.6165937500002,"end":1034.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1034.72159375,"end":1035.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1035.6328437500001,"end":1057.2159687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1057.3003437500001,"end":1094.3072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1067.93159375,"end":1068.8934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1077.6009687500002,"end":1078.9847187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1090.3584687500002,"end":1092.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1093.5984687500002,"end":1095.0328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1095.0328437500002,"end":1099.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1100.2303437500002,"end":1163.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1128.0740937500002,"end":1128.3609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1161.90846875,"end":1162.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1163.3259687500001,"end":1164.4903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1164.81096875,"end":1176.3028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1176.7247187500002,"end":1188.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1189.4147187500002,"end":1194.0047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1194.2915937500002,"end":1195.0340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1195.60784375,"end":1202.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1203.37034375,"end":1225.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1225.7803437500002,"end":1230.7584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1231.34909375,"end":1232.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1233.0703437500001,"end":1235.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1235.7534687500001,"end":1240.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1241.20409375,"end":1247.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1248.81471875,"end":1265.4365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1253.0840937500002,"end":1253.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1254.9065937500002,"end":1257.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1265.82471875,"end":1274.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1274.78534375,"end":1281.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1280.1178437500002,"end":1283.7459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1283.7459687500002,"end":1287.9647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1283.8809687500002,"end":1283.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1283.96534375,"end":1284.0497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1285.63596875,"end":1286.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1288.1165937500002,"end":1290.3440937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1289.56784375,"end":1292.4365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1290.8672187500001,"end":1295.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1294.3940937500001,"end":1295.0184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1295.9297187500001,"end":1304.5528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1296.04784375,"end":1296.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1297.00971875,"end":1297.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1297.17846875,"end":1297.5159687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1304.5190937500001,"end":1323.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1315.04909375,"end":1315.6565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1319.7234687500002,"end":1320.7528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1322.2547187500002,"end":1325.9334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1323.8578437500003,"end":1328.0597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1327.09784375,"end":1332.1434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1333.3753437500002,"end":1341.8297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1341.88034375,"end":1342.5384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1342.58909375,"end":1370.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1366.2478437500001,"end":1366.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1369.9265937500002,"end":1369.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1370.02784375,"end":1370.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1370.1965937500001,"end":1371.5297187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1371.42846875,"end":1371.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1371.6647187500002,"end":1373.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1373.6390937500003,"end":1380.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1376.9465937500001,"end":1378.2797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1378.4147187500002,"end":1380.6422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1380.7434687500001,"end":1418.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1392.1172187500001,"end":1392.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1418.8978437500002,"end":1430.5415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1430.8115937500002,"end":1447.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1447.8722187500002,"end":1454.3353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1455.0440937500002,"end":1458.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1458.5034687500001,"end":1460.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1458.60471875,"end":1460.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1460.29221875,"end":1460.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1460.8997187500001,"end":1462.7559687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1461.5072187500002,"end":1462.5028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1462.8572187500001,"end":1480.6265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1480.81221875,"end":1484.3897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1484.9803437500002,"end":1496.2528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1496.57346875,"end":1500.4884687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1501.0115937500002,"end":1505.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1504.2347187500002,"end":1504.9603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1505.6522187500002,"end":1507.8965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1508.5715937500001,"end":1513.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1513.5159687500002,"end":1516.7897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1516.8740937500002,"end":1533.1922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1533.5972187500001,"end":1537.1578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1537.7315937500002,"end":1541.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1541.29221875,"end":1564.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1564.3097187500002,"end":1579.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1579.68284375,"end":1598.8359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1599.2072187500003,"end":1614.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1615.2384687500003,"end":1635.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1635.2690937500001,"end":1639.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1635.8597187500002,"end":1635.8934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1638.76221875,"end":1641.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1640.0784687500002,"end":1640.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1641.1078437500003,"end":1643.4703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1641.9009687500002,"end":1642.2047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1643.3015937500002,"end":1645.4784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1646.3222187500003,"end":1650.6590937500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.477,"end":5.399,"text":"謝謝主席 我們是不是請石部長 請石部長另外一人早 部長這個中榮的這個業務到底有沒有帶到"},{"start":19.477,"end":45.572,"text":"到底有沒有抄刀你說要一個禮拜給大家報告早超過一個禮拜了這個以他送來的這個報告他送來的報告我們都知道是說沒有但他送來報告說沒有之後人家影像就曝光了所有的媒體都看過了人民也看過了就是有你現在還在講他送來的報告你知道你們醫師法"},{"start":47.313,"end":66.244,"text":"怎麼規範密醫行為6個月以上5年以下嘛對不對可是醫生有什麼責任你們的醫師法如果醫師法28條之4聘僱容留密醫去執行這個手術你們28條之4對醫師怎麼處罰有刑責嗎 你先回答我有沒有刑責"},{"start":76.583,"end":87.105,"text":"龍柳啊龍柳跟聘顧密醫來幫我做手術這個醫師有沒有刑責龍柳的部分沒有啦聘顧有沒有聘顧龍柳龍柳跟聘顧通通都沒有你們的醫師去找一個密醫來幫他帶刀只有罰10萬到50萬你覺得這個機制這樣子"},{"start":105.339,"end":119.745,"text":"公平嗎那個密醫是有刑責但是聘僱密醫的人的醫師沒有刑責罰十萬元可以了事這樣醫生敢去請密醫來操刀嗎 大家也敢"},{"start":124.087,"end":126.069,"text":"你覺得這種法律的設計有公平嗎沒有公平 太檢討沒有公平嘛 第一 你知道 我跟你說過嘛在開刀房裡面 醫師 護理師 麻醉科醫師 大家都參與其中"},{"start":144.364,"end":170.112,"text":"病人可以告他們加重詐欺是不能緩刑的非關不可的喔但是檢舉的人自己就有刑責不能緩刑的不能一顆罰金的加重詐欺喔我說過嘛但是我要問你崔少哲保護法能不能保護讓這個崔少哲揭弊的人可以免除刑責可不可以"},{"start":173.117,"end":179.96,"text":"你不知道好我先問你吹哨者保護的揭弊的對象限於什麼資格他揭弊的範圍"},{"start":183.942,"end":208.995,"text":"不涉及私人企業啦你懂嗎所以只有公部門的醫院公立醫院的接避者可以讓這個吹哨者保護法去協助給他網住接住現在我問你公立醫院占整體醫院幾個百分比我們的大概是20個百分比"},{"start":210.208,"end":224.506,"text":"所以有八成 八成的醫院而且私立醫院才是這種讓業務操刀的可能問題更多私立醫院的接避者是得不到接避者保護的"},{"start":226.178,"end":237.567,"text":"所以他們怎麼接避 你說三個手段嘛你的三個手段就是組一個調查小組第二個訂一個手術室指引第三個請醫策會積極輔導這個東西有辦法"},{"start":243.522,"end":268.215,"text":"解決這個問題嗎 有限 有限啦 沒錯我現在要跟你說 我再跟你講一次 接避者保護的這一個機制對私立醫院的接避者來講很重要 你說要怎麼處理這個事情沒有比接避出來接避免除刑責的這一個保護機制更重要的 好"},{"start":271.236,"end":282.761,"text":"醫師罰28條之4醫師去聘僱一個密醫來操刀沒有刑者只有罰10萬這個事情你應該去討論一下那我現在一併要跟你討論的是"},{"start":285.253,"end":289.775,"text":"我們希望你藉著這次事件一併修正改進我下面要講的這一個議題這個議題就是說啊你們劉月餅市長在這,我先抱怨一下他說你們就根據中榮的報告,業態沒有操刀然後劉市長你說啊醫學院畢業大家都資優生畢業的醫生給他們寄生借就很可惜,不可能"},{"start":314.89,"end":327.883,"text":"不可能會這樣做啦那個劉市長天兵啊厲害啦但我現在不是要講這個啦現在教學醫院當中除了主治醫師通常還會有"},{"start":329.472,"end":350.208,"text":"醫院的門診除了主治醫師有時候就是住院醫師、實習醫生或是PGY因為是教學醫院但他們這些教學醫院的門診在主治醫師的指導下他會進行病史詢問病理學的檢查那病人可以自由選擇是不是要接受教學服務"},{"start":351.69,"end":363.484,"text":"他可以自由選擇要不要有其他醫師在場他可以告訴這個主治醫師嘛他有執行權因為他沒有被麻醉嘛他意識清楚嘛所以他可以選擇權他說我"},{"start":367.168,"end":388.74,"text":"我這個不想要但是也有很多醫師大牌的醫師在門診的時候掛號的時候就已經揭露了本診為教學門診診療時會有住院醫師實習醫師跟診學習如果你不方便我就是一定要教你不方便你不要來看這一診這也是一個方法"},{"start":390.001,"end":416.876,"text":"但是呢我要講的這狀況很容易監督啊因為病人意識清楚啊有資訊告知啊有執行權啊病人也有選擇權啊隨便你要不要我就是要教學也在教學當中我們的醫療技術也在進步也是靠這個也是要純誠啊當然是要靠這樣子進步但是我要問你是教學手術呢"},{"start":417.896,"end":422.028,"text":"教學手術保證到自己的知情權和選擇權"},{"start":425.782,"end":451.584,"text":"教學手術就是手術當中有有實習醫師或者是學生在旁邊對啊他是教學型的手術操作我想這個手術過程當中也是一個在醫學生學習或者是這個住院醫師也好實習醫師也好對啦我現在講的是有沒有知情權有沒有讓這個因為被麻醉躺在那裡啊誰進來手術事實上不知道啦那我的意思是說"},{"start":452.745,"end":459.41,"text":"你們現在的這個設計步驟程序有沒有讓被手術的人知情有沒有可做選擇的選擇權就像門診你都這麼縝密了連門診大家都這麼做了那操刀的風險是更大的那操刀的程序裡面教學型的手術操作這個受術者有沒有這一些規範"},{"start":484.529,"end":507.181,"text":"這個兩個層面第一個就是說過去我們有訂了這個教學的指引裡面把這些倫理規範要求進去那麼住院的部分跟這個手術的部分我們來檢討一下剛剛有沒有需要去擴充之前的那個門診我們現在不是在講倫理規範我們現在講的就是制式規定世代已經走到現在來了"},{"start":510.583,"end":533.841,"text":"為什麼要講呢 教學手術除了 大家知道沒有告知這個病人 因為手術要填寫一個同意書嘛你們自恃的手術同意書的內容就是疾病名稱 建議手術名稱 建議手術的原因醫師的聲明 手術負責醫師的姓名專科別簽名 病人聲明 立同意書人姓名病人的關係人簽名"},{"start":536.384,"end":553.619,"text":"門診是意識清醒的 但手術的受術者是意識不清醒的所以其實是只有填寫這一個手術同意書是不夠的2021年張基的院長陳木寬大家都知道瘋者的風風雨雨"},{"start":555.907,"end":583.76,"text":"則募官遭多名離職的醫護人員指控偽造開刀房的記錄 詐領保險費 涉及不法還批報他一天就排17刀 而人在台北開會髒話還有掛名的手術在進行不僅如此 還有離職的醫師爆料說一天三四十刀都是常態"},{"start":585.782,"end":604.902,"text":"醫生遭到霸凌離職了就這樣子檢舉然後醫院說前置後續作業可由醫療團隊執行主導醫師可以到另外一間手術進行手術關鍵部分然後所以那個張基就出了一個聲明"},{"start":605.643,"end":632.59,"text":"他說手術參與的醫師有團隊總醫師住院醫師主刀醫師組織醫師以上繁雜卻必要的程序不可能由主刀醫師一人完成由醫療團隊們進行關鍵步驟之外的前置與後續在此同時主刀醫師便可以到另外一間手術為另外一個病人進行手術關鍵的部分好他講的原則我們都同意但真正的是這一個"},{"start":633.65,"end":660.693,"text":"院長當天到底是不是這樣子 那可就不一定啦他們的聲明講的我們都同意但真正操作的是不是如聲明所講的 不知道餒 像一天三四十刀像生產線一樣麻醉之前露個臉 下面之後是誰開的 不知道欸所以我常常說這是一個模糊的地帶"},{"start":663.084,"end":678.576,"text":"那有沒有需要再更精緻的規範啊手術當中到底有幾個醫師動刀病人在上手術台以前有沒有基本的知情權啊部長手術教學的風險會不會高手術的風險總是高於門診的風險 教學嘛"},{"start":690.246,"end":702.819,"text":"那病人的安全保障應該比看門診的時候還更嚴謹啊他的知情權也應該要更獲得保障啊那他要不要有選擇權也應該要有啊所以在這種狀況你覺得呢"},{"start":708.454,"end":731.213,"text":"跟委員說明以現在來講我們剛剛提到的三個層次第一個過去已經在門診需要有告知知情的部分我們來研議把它納入那特別是學生的部分大概都OK因為意識清醒也沒有辦法變住院跟手術的部分我們來研修這是第一個第二個"},{"start":732.014,"end":751.459,"text":"有所謂的接刀或跨刀的情形是確實會有有這個需要那但是我們也把它訂出一個原則出來那第三個呢那實務上呢可以透過我們健保的申報可以了解它的合理性我們去勾結一下那些高量當初這個案件來市長你當市長了嗎當初張基這個案件"},{"start":755.144,"end":760.866,"text":"狀況怎麼樣好你提供給我一個調查報告沒關係好來我現在再問一下就曾經有一個離譜的案件安裝心臟支架的手術組織醫師是為了訓練住院醫師這個我覺得是一定要這樣子嘛教學嘛教學相長然後大家都一定要這樣子來學習嘛"},{"start":777.651,"end":793.825,"text":"但是他在訓練的過程裡面在沒有告知病人的狀況裡面放手讓這個住院醫師去指導結果發生安裝的疏失了最後主治醫師推卸責任推卸給住院醫師"},{"start":795.827,"end":814.018,"text":"結果家屬自始至終的蒙在鼓裡根本不知道這台攸關性命的手術除了主治醫師之外還有住院醫師也參與執刀所以這大家覺得說你隱瞞病人術後推諉因為發生事情了才講說這不是我來住院"},{"start":815.149,"end":843.394,"text":"在這種狀況這責任的確是責任在你們現行的規範裡面責任屬誰你告訴我主治醫師啦這個醫病關係的建立是在主治醫師啦我說法律責任法律責任也是啊因為在這裡面是你授權嘛你授權那你在這裡面破壞了病患對你主治醫師的信任以外但病患都不知道操刀的是住院但是我們如果沒有這一個過程你怎麼訓練"},{"start":844.966,"end":868.061,"text":"住院醫師呢 那這個責任要怎麼決定因為沒事情就沒事情嘛 有事情要怎麼辦我出門問你 你說你瘦了這樣沒人要做主 沒人要做教學生 沒人要做主治醫師要怎麼辦責任很清楚 因為這個醫病關係的建立是在主治醫師所以這個責任是很清楚 但是這一些情形為了"},{"start":869.002,"end":884.519,"text":"我們不是也通過了一個醫療事故預防及正義處理法其實就是要解決像這一類的事情他並不是故意所為但是就有這樣的發生你完全把責任歸咎於他但我的意思是說責任上是這樣沒有錯那現在病人"},{"start":888.563,"end":907.16,"text":"他是第一線的第一線直接就如果有疏失當然不是故意你免刑者沒關係但是他是第一線就是受害的那他這種病人難道不應該有知情權在事前要知情 要同意吧"},{"start":908.052,"end":936.263,"text":"所以知情很重要知情而且要取得他同意吧如果沒有的話會不會很糟糕這個在倫理上也是需要啦知情一定需要啦那事後的告知也是需要我們在那個醫療事故預防性正義處理就有談到這個事後發生的事情也要告知嘛我現在跟你說那要不要事前同意事前也要啊對不對現在有這種知情和同意權嗎現在"},{"start":938.457,"end":951.402,"text":"我們來規範你們現在沒有啦所以我們現在手術同意書的規範不足是否為教學手術參與動刀的醫師有誰我們都要透明嘛"},{"start":955.723,"end":975.643,"text":"那是否涉及新進的技術或設備要不要告知我應該是講的是說在這個手術同意書上要不要擴充到包含手術的團隊那麼中間有沒有涉及到你如果是教學型的有住院醫師有誰要來可能會涉及到"},{"start":976.664,"end":994.248,"text":"Involve到裡面要教學啊那要不要告知那涉及到新進的技術或設備要不要告知新進的技術或設備要不要告知這個告知要到什麼程度我們來研議的對 所以我現在在講就是說"},{"start":1000.993,"end":1020.492,"text":"整個中榮的案件的核心不是只有業帶是不是進入手術室其實更核心是我們國家對於新進的醫療技術跟設備是否已經有清楚的規範到操作的資格和訓練的門檻"},{"start":1023.103,"end":1027.488,"text":"你都一直說 業代比他更容易做啊 醫生不要 業代要來幫忙協助啊但我就從這裡來問你們 這樣子的問題 難道你們都不用去規範新進的技術越來越多 與時俱進"},{"start":1042.805,"end":1067.372,"text":"新進的醫材設備這麼多與時俱進那你不用去規範每一種新的進來食藥署如果核准了一種了那你的訓練門檻要不要規範要不要現在有沒有規範我們在特管辦法就是醫療法的授權辦法有個特管辦法裡面有一些特定的技術是有規範的它就有一些門檻"},{"start":1068.973,"end":1093.229,"text":"像新的像Proton新導管的不是一般的新導管有一些新的那種會刮除的那種的新導管速適風險比較高的高的他有規範在裡面什麼資格那像達文西手術也是一樣他一定要受過幾台的跟刀訓練之後他才能夠獨立操作才能取得執行的資格那每個都已經規範完整了嗎但是沒有辦法"},{"start":1094.251,"end":1098.968,"text":"規範完整了嗎不可能完全啦所以我們隨時就調整就調整這樣"},{"start":1100.587,"end":1129.168,"text":"對 所以有人講說你對於這個病人安全始終是醫療行為的首要考量你曾經這樣講嗎醫生面對新興的醫療技術必須接受完整的訓練醫生在過去的訓練當中可能會碰到新的技術或設備你曾經說例如達文西手術系統在他還是醫師訓練的階段可能沒有接觸過但在未來醫師要操作這類設備當然必須要接受訓練那你也說過"},{"start":1130.129,"end":1148.164,"text":"病人安全才是最重要的醫療人員至少不能傷害病人所以訓練訓練絕對是必要的所以你講了兩種嘛第一種第一種訓練是模擬訓練嘛那像達文西手術系統就有模擬機可以讓醫師在模擬環境當中學習操作"},{"start":1148.965,"end":1156.769,"text":"第二種是實務訓練許多國外的做法是讓受訓醫師由有經驗的醫院具備經驗的醫師帶領一下學習也不是交給業務代表來教導不是"},{"start":1164.913,"end":1193.612,"text":"可是你知道現在很多醫院喔你到醫院去陸陸續續都會看到號稱全國第一套某種儀器設備全國第一套經常那這些醫院在引進新興的醫療設備發布新聞稿說哎呀我們今天終於幾月順利完成裝機再幾月要開始實施手術經常常常上一個月完成裝機下個月就要做"},{"start":1194.454,"end":1194.474,"text":"少數"},{"start":1195.666,"end":1224.585,"text":"那用這個當廣告那作為提升醫療服務造福病人的主要宣傳和訴求但是作為病患和家屬我們希望的新設備不僅是要快我們希望的是操作的人操作的能力操作的專業要完善和安全可是你們的特管辦法裡面沒有辦法更改的速度沒辦法改這麼快"},{"start":1225.926,"end":1246.884,"text":"新的醫材設備發展的速度比你的法律還快啊那怎麼辦 這些高階的儀器設備你們沒有辦法 現行的法規沒有辦法發展的那麼快那你們要求實際操作人員需要具備合格的證明也來不及要求 這樣要怎麼辦"},{"start":1249.234,"end":1273.434,"text":"這個我們來研究一下就是更新不急的問題啦可能要從源頭啦因為這些比較侵入性比較侵犯性的都是從FDA就許可所以我們要從前端開始如果他這個在查驗登記的時候要許可的時候那麼這個就是屬於有高門檻的就應該要直接寫進他的訪單裡面"},{"start":1275.015,"end":1298.851,"text":"就是要求你要受過什麼訓練才能夠操作這台儀器的我們過去在醫財部等位他會這麼清楚就知道風險是什麼嗎所以未來我們要建立這個技術我們來檢討從源頭開始所以你的實際操作人員操作這種儀器要不要定合格操作的合格門檻最低訓練時數標準化的訓練程序達到門檻之後才能夠執行相關手術要把"},{"start":1304.875,"end":1324.883,"text":"所以簡單的講就是說未來我們在審查這一類的比較侵犯性或者是很新的高科技的東西不是只有在審查文件還要去詢問這個專業醫學會的意見能夠操作這個的是不是要有一些人員的限制那現在有這樣子跑嗎還沒有 還沒有現在都沒有嗎對 我們來檢查所以現在實務上就是業務人員在教學"},{"start":1333.43,"end":1353.182,"text":"所以你們是現在交給廠商在教學你剛才講到一個重點我們的醫學會難道是擺著放著而已嗎所以現在你們交給廠商會發生什麼問題有媒體報導指出部分醫生對於設備組裝流程不熟悉實際操作時一旦發生問題緊急聯絡的是"},{"start":1357.164,"end":1370.991,"text":"廠商業務人員到廠所以在這種狀況裡面我想作為主管機關保證你感覺說目前這樣是沒合理的吧也不符合醫療安全要求的常態作業吧現在是這樣喔這樣你要多久的時間要改進"},{"start":1373.672,"end":1389.898,"text":"我們把這個這一套制度我們把它研究要研究多久三個月我們希望這些新進的醫療技術和儀器設備的合作合格的操作標準訂出最低的訓練時數這個可以交給醫學會啊我們業必歸會要幹嘛"},{"start":1394.72,"end":1414.504,"text":"業必歸會讓他們業會裡面可以他們自己對會員有這個自律去管理嘛所以不是交給業代那你知道婦產科內市競技微創醫學會他們規範的婦科機器手臂協助下微創手術醫師資格認證婦產科這個就訂的很詳細喔他說"},{"start":1419.325,"end":1445.491,"text":"必須是台灣婦產科醫學會認證的婦產科專科醫師才能夠執行第二個至少要執行20例的婦科手術含開腹或及腹腔鏡手術其中腹腔鏡手術需要占10例以上並需要有主刀者手術紀錄第三參與本學會舉辦或本學會認可的機械手臂輔助婦科手術相關課程8小時"},{"start":1447.932,"end":1460.118,"text":"第四 機械手臂操作要12個小時 含模擬機和實機操作保長你也稍微聽一下我聽你說婦產科醫學會在規定有有很多啦 包括你必須至少參與一台的動物實驗 擬真組織大體或AI模擬訓練以及至少一台的機械手臂輔助婦科手術觀摩或擔任助手經驗或是"},{"start":1475.265,"end":1481.155,"text":"至少10台機械手臂輔助婦科手術觀摩或擔任住所經驗這兩項則依記錄就可以了然後"},{"start":1485.454,"end":1507.469,"text":"執行醫師新取得認證資格後一年內如果沒有單獨主刀執行機械手臂相關輔助的手術則暫停其資格需要再接受再培訓課程使得恢復資格那如果要擔任指導醫師當然更嚴謹那我的意思是說我看這個啦我覺得婦科"},{"start":1509.551,"end":1536.15,"text":"這個是什麼醫學會叫做婦產科內試競技微創醫學會的規範其實是蠻完整的那從上述的規範可以證明專科醫學會在這個制度當中可以扮演更積極的角色新進的醫療技術和設備的合格操作標準最低的訓練門檻指定醫師的資格這個專業的自律範疇真的不要交給醫院更不能交給廠商"},{"start":1538.271,"end":1563.511,"text":"應該要交給醫學會那你們不可以憑以形式說從中榮事件你訂一個限縮在開刀房秩序業務人員不得帶刀這麼簡單粗糙的指引而是你必須從制度層次全心去檢視新技術導入後的訓練認證和責任架構是否健全"},{"start":1564.452,"end":1578.963,"text":"所以你要去統籌結合各專科醫學會針對不同類型的新進醫療技術建立分級分專科的操作案訓練指引而不是一個概括性的手術開刀房的指引"},{"start":1580.305,"end":1593.68,"text":"所以在這種狀況對病患而言我覺得站在病患的角度立委最重要我們要緊的不是你多快用上最新的設備而已而是能不能再確信執行手術的醫療團隊已經具備充分的專業訓練和經驗"},{"start":1599.566,"end":1614.255,"text":"而不是在默許現在的醫療技術資本競逐的過程當中任由科技和新興的醫材的風險轉嫁給病人自己去承擔不能這樣子啊"},{"start":1615.886,"end":1634.802,"text":"這樣 我跟你說 你給我最後我就只想講你們跟各個醫學會開會 每開完一次會給我們一次報告 給我們委員會報告那你們三個月內 你們到底開了幾次會 達成什麼共識 討論出什麼可以都送我們未還委員會給大家報告一下嗎"},{"start":1635.322,"end":1649.395,"text":"可以 可以 我們把這整個這個制度把它規劃好不要變成開刀房 開刀房的指引而已不會 不會 不會 從源頭啦對 對 對 好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝林淑芬委員發言接下來請盧憲義委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167335","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167335","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a881f34372e501b46056bf384bcbb560abab6e897797ecb76ba2b4aab974ddd87285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱若華","委員發言時間":"11:31:58 - 11:41:41","影片長度":"00:09:43","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:31:58+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:41:41+08:00","duration":583,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.7690937500000001,"end":6.3590937499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.764093750000001,"end":7.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.03409375,"end":9.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.285968750000002,"end":15.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.876593750000001,"end":16.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.80034375,"end":25.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.95096875,"end":30.102218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.625343750000003,"end":44.682218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":45.306593750000005,"end":58.77284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.46034375000001,"end":67.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.93596875,"end":78.98909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.30221875000001,"end":74.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.43284375,"end":74.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.19159375000001,"end":82.58346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.90409375,"end":85.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.21596875,"end":90.59909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.63284375,"end":95.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.99909375,"end":98.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":98.37846875000001,"end":107.25471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.84534375000001,"end":110.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.92971875,"end":107.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.96346875,"end":108.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":110.88284375,"end":112.24971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.91659375,"end":120.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.70409375000001,"end":125.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.26034375,"end":132.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.19159375,"end":133.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.61346875,"end":137.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.06846875000002,"end":148.64909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.99971875,"end":147.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.05409375000002,"end":151.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.65284375000002,"end":161.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":161.59221875,"end":163.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.86596875,"end":167.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.48159375,"end":167.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.10596875000002,"end":173.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.80971875,"end":178.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.95659375000002,"end":182.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.63534375,"end":187.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.05221875,"end":189.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.60471875000002,"end":193.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.45221875000001,"end":193.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.55346875,"end":196.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.54034375,"end":200.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":200.75909375,"end":208.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":208.82534375,"end":211.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":212.30159375000002,"end":214.36034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.66409375,"end":216.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":216.82409375,"end":232.16346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.90596875000003,"end":233.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.66096875000002,"end":238.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.23846875,"end":242.20409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.52471875,"end":246.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.08534375000002,"end":250.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":248.97096875000003,"end":249.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.19846875000002,"end":253.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":253.08846875,"end":278.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.60721875000002,"end":255.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.50159375,"end":255.72096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.29034375000003,"end":257.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.98534375,"end":265.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.11596875000004,"end":266.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.85659375,"end":289.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":282.58596875,"end":282.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.89284375,"end":314.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.51346875,"end":331.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.65409375,"end":335.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":333.53159375,"end":335.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.53971875,"end":335.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.74221875,"end":336.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.80971875,"end":364.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":364.37909375000004,"end":373.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.09034375000005,"end":380.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":380.15721875,"end":380.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":380.89971875000003,"end":380.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":381.00096875,"end":386.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.09784375000004,"end":382.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.02534375000005,"end":396.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":387.36284375,"end":388.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":389.01659375,"end":389.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":391.61534375,"end":391.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":395.53034375000004,"end":395.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.45846875,"end":406.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.02346875,"end":399.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.97659375,"end":402.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.61346875000004,"end":404.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.92534375,"end":411.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":409.03034375000004,"end":409.70534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":411.49409375000005,"end":420.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.82596875,"end":422.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.03659375,"end":450.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.36159375000005,"end":454.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":454.28909375,"end":464.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.75159375000004,"end":465.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":465.08909375,"end":466.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.23659375000005,"end":470.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.92784375,"end":475.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.97346875000005,"end":500.79659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":499.76721875000004,"end":502.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.41659375000006,"end":516.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":516.06846875,"end":516.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.1315937500001,"end":524.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.55659375,"end":532.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.69471875,"end":548.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":547.89471875,"end":551.6240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.7465937500001,"end":555.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":554.61096875,"end":559.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.36971875,"end":564.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":564.6853437500001,"end":565.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.47846875,"end":566.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.74846875,"end":567.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":567.95909375,"end":582.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.1003437500001,"end":584.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.9778437500001,"end":582.99471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.679,"end":7.884,"text":"謝謝主席 請交通部陳部長也請鐵道局楊局長請陳部長 請楊局長委員好部長好"},{"start":18.15,"end":43.844,"text":"部長今天首先要和部長還有局長討論鐵路地下化那依鐵道局公開資料看起來桃園鐵路地下化目前的關鍵不在於明年有沒有錢而是已經編列的經費它執行不順那其中CJ13站中壢站它歷經了五次的流標那延宕也超過了一年才決標那這延宕不只影響中壢站本身它也影響南端CJ17站平正端"},{"start":44.324,"end":67.382,"text":"那平正端的部分他完工後是否能夠通車那想請教局長部長那目前在這個排程中是否已經將CJ13站他這個中壢站他列為主要影響整體進度的關鍵標案報告委員13是桃園 17才是中壢那目前的標標的進度我請局長回答"},{"start":68.344,"end":95.481,"text":"跟委員報告其實CJ17是我們中立站那這個CJ17在113年3月就已經決標那現在都在這個積極的進行相關的工程當中那CJ17其實在這個目前為止原來決標金額是156億到目前為止已經執行了15億多所以我想在115年度我們這個工程還是有需要"},{"start":96.481,"end":111.829,"text":"後續的一些經費來做支援有沒有去做評估他之後會有什麼影響嗎因為目前他延宕一年中壢已經延宕一年了沒有錯嗎那他會影響他後續憑證端這個跟憑證端的影響因為憑證是臨時站憑證臨時站的部分我們在今年10月會按照這個目標啟程來通車啟用"},{"start":120.794,"end":147.23,"text":"那地下化的這個路段呢現在爆出去的修正計畫呢是全縣市在122年要能夠完工通車所以沒有任何一個車站可以辣掉也就是說不管哪個車站先做後做其實我們是按照工程的要進來去做安排的那今天主要會有這個問題是因為那過去有多個標案它是流標的流標嘛那也不是因為預算沒有通過的關係吧不是這個關係沒有錯吧"},{"start":149.436,"end":166.746,"text":"對 那因為在前年就絕標了是 因為單價變低而且它風險高所以廠商不願意投標那我們現在來看115年的預算別列和相關工程的標案定價是否已經有反映最新的營建物價指數它有沒有反映在最新的營建物價指數"},{"start":167.649,"end":195.669,"text":"有就是我們現在修正的已經發標的已經發包的這些標都是有按照最新的這個營建行情物價指數去完成發包那後續我們現在還有內力奉明這個三個標案在等待發包那這個部分的話就是要等修正計畫來通過那目前來看的話呢還在我們的掌控期程當中但我們期望今年下半年可以完成內力站的這樣的一個發包"},{"start":196.747,"end":215.154,"text":"是了解那因為中立站是全線最困難的一區嗎那他起步也算晚那因為他經歷中間也經歷5次流標那他有嚴重影響壓縮影響到電機的電機進場的時間那目前憑證斷的他局長他的進度是正常的嗎憑證斷現在進度正常"},{"start":216.877,"end":241.807,"text":"是那另外在113年的時候我們有到桃園進行考察那當時本席有向部長提到向部長提到大溪就是我們地方桃園的捷運綠線希望能夠延伸到大溪那大溪老街道到河東那局長這邊有沒有掌握進度還有狀況我所知桃園市政府應該還沒有把修正後的報告送進來"},{"start":242.754,"end":252.829,"text":"那我這邊了解到是他們去年年底就已經修正宋經理對不起我可能回頭再確認一下如果宋經理我們會按照程序來做這個必要的一些審查"},{"start":253.174,"end":278.38,"text":"是那部長這邊因為當時113年我們有進行地方考察那地方一直很希望大溪不只是到就是河溪因為大溪地形的關係您也知道有分河東跟河溪我們希望這條捷運綠線呢它也可以過橋到河東那技術上面其實還有一些困難所以這邊希望能夠支持才能帶動大溪整體的觀光還有交通的效益"},{"start":278.92,"end":289.598,"text":"是 報告委員現在已經送進來那個鐵道局了嘛那鐵道局會來進行審議那這個部分細節我們再來想辦法來協助我們現在部裡面也在審查當中了"},{"start":289.943,"end":308.762,"text":"OK好那另外接下來要和部長討論就是剛剛我們討論到桃園鐵路地下化那我們來看工程執行方面的監管問題那這個施工期間他一定會產生大量的土方那一直以來就是我們避免亂到土方的問題嘛那國土署他也規定土方車輛都要裝設GPS"},{"start":310.023,"end":331.403,"text":"那目前國土署還有環境部對GPS的規範還在討論中那業界也都知道這套系統它其實是有漏洞的所以這邊也提出要求那交通部作為車輛的主管機關必須解決技術性上面的困難嗎那我們先來看到部長您知道有市面上有一個東西它叫做車中型的GPS感染器嗎"},{"start":332.914,"end":354.186,"text":"車窗型的干擾器車窗型的GPS干擾器那這樣的干擾器它一個幾千塊它插上去之後訊號就會斷了那現在GPS它本身的監控平台是被動的那訊息斷了之後呢它只會顯示異常得到承辦人員發現異常之後土方早就被倒在不該倒的地方那另外還有ABG的問題"},{"start":355.166,"end":371.219,"text":"那有一些不肖的業者他會他會有這個ABG一台是他乖乖跑他的路線那另外一台呢他裝在另外一台車上那這邊想請教部長那未來我們大型的交通公共建設我們是不是可以來研議就是把訊號中斷視同為違規寫到合約裡面"},{"start":376.782,"end":396.299,"text":"報告委員因為這個土方的管理是內政部國土署在管理的所以今天要和部長討論是車輛因為車輛管理是在我們交通部是監理機關嘛車輛本身的安全跟規格那個管理是我們但是實際上這個土方的GPS的這個管控的部分是國土署"},{"start":396.519,"end":413.067,"text":"因為現在有進行討論是希望中央跟地方他們都可以來就是地方也有一套他們GPS的管理系統中央這邊也有中央的部分借接的是內政部國土署他的資料不會進到我們公路局這邊來我們現在討論說這個GPS它裝在現在砂石車他們也要定期做檢驗的這個機器要怎麼來做檢驗我請局長回答"},{"start":423.215,"end":443.263,"text":"這個部分我跟委員報告一下因為這個GPS的一個部分的話它基本上就是一個軌跡的定位然後跟訊號的這個花色那這個相關的一個運作燈的部分在這個國土署那邊或是地方政府現在採雙軌他們都有一個這個平台在做控管那另外我也跟委員報告一下"},{"start":443.743,"end":469.756,"text":"像現行毒化物按照環境部的要求都必須要裝GPS所以它整個車機的規格因為他們都必須要裝GPS那我剛才也提到就是有這個GPS的干擾器它不一定是它只要訊號一出現斷點那我們再後續討論誰來做誰來做管理誰來做追查那像計程車它是不是有跳表對那這個跳表是誰管的計程車跳表這個簽網的部分是經濟部標準檢驗局"},{"start":470.99,"end":499.515,"text":"那計程車是不是都要定期也是回到就是監理機關監理機關的檢驗是就車輛安全的部分我知道委員的意思是說我們在檢驗的時候檢驗人員可不可以這個幫忙去看一下這個GPS是不是這個OK不OK的部分我跟委員報告一下因為這個部分的話這個基本上就是說GPS這個系統是不是這個運作正常的部分那個是實際運作狀況的部分"},{"start":499.995,"end":516.307,"text":"那交通部這邊有沒有辦法來做跟我也不知道真的是沒有辦法因為那個系統因為車輛本身安全的部分我們有一套這個法規在這個依照法規來做這個檢驗那像GPS它裝在裡面的話真的"},{"start":517.448,"end":546.023,"text":"第一個部分不是屬於車輛安全的項目那第二個部分的話即使外表看得說有裝一個GPS在那邊但是這個一上路之後是因為就近期的會議國土署跟環境部他們也有邀集交通部嘛對對對對那交通部這邊負責的選擇是什麼在幾次會議裡面大概就是裝GPS的部分的話大概就是回歸他們那個那因為在幾次會議有討論到就是剛剛這個委員簡報裡面有提到說小貨車可不可以開放來這個在土方砂石"},{"start":546.443,"end":565.754,"text":"那這個部分的話我跟委員報告所以就當天交通部這邊完全沒有討論到GPS的檢驗對對對對對因為我這邊順便跟委員報告一下那如果那發生我剛才提到的ABG的狀況你們要這個責任歸屬在誰這個部分這個就是國土署就會依他們的規定來開罰國土署嗎對對對國土署會依規定開罰"},{"start":567.995,"end":582.664,"text":"OK好那剛剛就鐵道局的部分那再請楊局長這邊會後再提供相關的資料就是有關我們桃園鐵路地下化的進度OK然後還有大溪的我們桃園捷運綠線延伸延伸的案OK好謝謝委員謝謝邱委員"}]}},{"id":"167334","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167334","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a888dbcfa6f2d6652f36bf384bcbb560abab6e897797ecb76ba135377653bbc0bde5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳雪生","委員發言時間":"11:20:58 - 11:31:17","影片長度":"00:10:19","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:20:58+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:31:17+08:00","duration":619,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.68471875,"end":3.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.08096875,"end":5.0259687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.43096875,"end":6.544718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.69096875,"end":16.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.775343750000001,"end":16.028468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.12534375,"end":18.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.04909375,"end":19.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.65221875,"end":20.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.70284375,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.99346875,"end":30.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.11471875,"end":33.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.62909375,"end":34.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.502218750000004,"end":37.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.69159375,"end":39.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.97409375,"end":40.024718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.665968750000005,"end":40.969718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.969718750000006,"end":41.307218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.16784375,"end":49.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.16346875,"end":44.344718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.44534375,"end":49.221593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.66034375,"end":51.010343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.14534375,"end":52.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.799093750000004,"end":53.102843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.33909375,"end":55.110968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.174093750000004,"end":58.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.07659375,"end":61.30409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.181593750000005,"end":64.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.99534375,"end":69.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.53909375,"end":74.98971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.69846875,"end":76.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.38596875,"end":80.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.16596875,"end":82.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.91659375,"end":84.70971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.99659375,"end":85.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.81909375000001,"end":88.43909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.40096875,"end":90.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.84784375000001,"end":93.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.49284375,"end":98.81721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.32346875,"end":100.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.23846875000001,"end":103.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.26784375000001,"end":104.74034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.28034375,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.02284375,"end":106.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.15346875,"end":107.20409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.20409375000001,"end":107.22096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.22096875000001,"end":107.23784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.23784375000001,"end":107.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.32221875,"end":108.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.41909375,"end":108.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.39784375,"end":110.62971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.80284375000001,"end":112.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.23284375,"end":114.62909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.92034375,"end":114.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.16909375,"end":117.10971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.24471875,"end":118.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.57784375000001,"end":119.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.64534375000001,"end":119.50596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.85596875,"end":121.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.73346875000001,"end":123.45471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.43346875,"end":125.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.98159375,"end":129.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.06971875000002,"end":131.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.09471875,"end":133.88346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.86221875,"end":136.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.65096875,"end":137.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.56221875,"end":140.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.24096875,"end":142.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.23659375,"end":143.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.38409375,"end":144.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.67471875,"end":148.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.69534375,"end":151.68659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.97346875000002,"end":152.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.00284375,"end":153.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.11659375000002,"end":157.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.53346875,"end":160.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.61346875,"end":163.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.56659375,"end":167.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.47721875000002,"end":170.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.97471875000002,"end":172.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.11346875,"end":175.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.83034375,"end":177.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.26471875000001,"end":180.64409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.47096875,"end":183.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.15409375000002,"end":186.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.46596875,"end":188.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.91284375,"end":190.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.54534375,"end":192.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.14409375000002,"end":196.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.00846875000002,"end":199.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.82659375,"end":204.23534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.46721875,"end":206.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.42471875,"end":211.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.94721875000002,"end":212.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.41534375,"end":216.19971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.52034375000002,"end":221.93721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.62909375,"end":223.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.66659375,"end":226.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.88159375,"end":228.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.02909375000002,"end":228.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.90221875,"end":236.87159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.95221875000001,"end":234.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.01534375000003,"end":236.70284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.34409375,"end":237.96846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.96846875000003,"end":238.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.72346875000002,"end":239.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.74034375000002,"end":241.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.59221875000003,"end":244.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.54971875,"end":245.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.72659375,"end":248.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.73034375,"end":251.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.00409375,"end":254.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.75471875000002,"end":257.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.29846875000004,"end":262.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.12471875,"end":266.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.34784375000004,"end":268.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.64284375,"end":271.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.83659375,"end":285.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.42534375,"end":286.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.55159375,"end":287.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.20971875000004,"end":289.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.04909375,"end":289.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.06596875,"end":294.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.71909375,"end":302.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.83596875,"end":303.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.07221875000005,"end":303.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.08909375,"end":307.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.62909375000004,"end":303.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.03346875,"end":308.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.75909375000003,"end":315.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.74971875,"end":316.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.90971875,"end":319.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.50846875,"end":321.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.00596875,"end":326.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.75221875,"end":328.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.61659375000005,"end":330.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.70909375,"end":335.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.36659375000005,"end":340.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.97346875,"end":342.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.03659375,"end":343.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.42034375000003,"end":361.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.26784375,"end":347.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.76784375,"end":364.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.84721875,"end":370.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.77471875000003,"end":371.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.86721875,"end":375.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.98909375000005,"end":377.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.87471875,"end":380.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.83221875000004,"end":382.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.26221875000005,"end":383.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.10159375,"end":387.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.29096875000005,"end":389.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.11346875000004,"end":392.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.04971875,"end":394.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.88909375000003,"end":395.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.15909375,"end":396.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.03659375,"end":399.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.47909375,"end":402.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.05284375,"end":400.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.47471875,"end":401.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.60096875000005,"end":402.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.97221875,"end":403.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.00596875,"end":403.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.02284375000005,"end":403.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.30971875,"end":405.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.04784375,"end":405.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.49909375000004,"end":407.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.72659375,"end":410.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.51534375,"end":413.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.51096875,"end":412.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.27846875,"end":423.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.92284375,"end":422.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.53846875000005,"end":427.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.38596875,"end":429.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.97221875,"end":429.98909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.56284375,"end":431.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.33909375,"end":436.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.97534375000004,"end":437.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.49409375000005,"end":438.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.51096875,"end":439.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.50221875000005,"end":443.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.45096875,"end":448.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.87221875,"end":451.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.88909375000003,"end":449.81721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.01096875,"end":452.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.02784375000005,"end":452.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.04471875,"end":452.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.06159375000004,"end":452.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.11221875,"end":455.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.16284375000004,"end":454.00221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.89659375,"end":456.56721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.36034375,"end":459.52034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.06034375,"end":462.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.79409375,"end":468.31221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.18971875000005,"end":469.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.94909375000003,"end":472.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.67846875000004,"end":475.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.97346875000005,"end":476.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.10846875000004,"end":477.98159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.26846875,"end":481.39034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.66034375000004,"end":483.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.04409375000006,"end":483.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.82034375,"end":487.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.41909375000006,"end":487.33034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.32596875,"end":489.15284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.92471875,"end":492.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.08471875000004,"end":493.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.23221875,"end":496.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.05034375,"end":497.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.42971875,"end":501.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.52221875000004,"end":502.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.69909375000003,"end":504.52596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.30221875,"end":506.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.25971875000005,"end":510.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.58409375,"end":510.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.80346875000004,"end":517.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.6297187499999,"end":517.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.60409375,"end":527.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.55721875,"end":520.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.40096875,"end":521.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.6453437499999,"end":524.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.82659375,"end":524.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.06659375,"end":529.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.3828437500001,"end":529.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.3997187500001,"end":531.7959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.7878437500001,"end":531.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.4878437500001,"end":536.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.6397187499999,"end":534.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.1115937500001,"end":539.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.2165937500001,"end":541.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.27971875,"end":541.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.1909687500001,"end":542.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.22471875,"end":543.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.0347187500001,"end":546.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.5322187500001,"end":554.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.90221875,"end":559.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.0322187500001,"end":559.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.40346875,"end":562.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.4878437500001,"end":560.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.79534375,"end":563.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.23409375,"end":566.9128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.5209687500001,"end":563.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.7903437500001,"end":571.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.8234687500001,"end":573.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.3884687500001,"end":576.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.83534375,"end":579.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.3247187500001,"end":578.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.40034375,"end":579.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.66596875,"end":581.8303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.5053437500001,"end":583.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.2390937499999,"end":586.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.00596875,"end":592.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.53721875,"end":596.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.97159375,"end":600.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.6928437500001,"end":598.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.3928437500001,"end":602.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.54846875,"end":605.1684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.0290937500001,"end":607.3115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.8347187500001,"end":609.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.18034375,"end":611.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.54721875,"end":613.5047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.1628437500001,"end":616.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.76159375,"end":617.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.18346875,"end":617.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.9765937500001,"end":620.84534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.701,"end":6.705,"text":"好 謝主席是不是請交通部陳部長請陳部長什麼叫偏鄉 解釋一下偏鄉 偏鄉偏鄉 交通相對不便那經濟條件相對沒有這麼方便的地方什麼叫離島"},{"start":32.562,"end":58.053,"text":"離島離島就是台灣島以外的島都是離島就是離島是偏鄉跟離島重要嗎都很重要不重要就把它切掉一塊塊把它切掉剩下台灣本島就好了嘛對不對南部如果愛手愛腳的話切掉剩下台北市就好了嘛這個就偏鄉離島嘛對不對我記得我當國大代表的時候啊"},{"start":59.11,"end":88.059,"text":"我去總統府 李登輝總統召見他說你們馬祖人啊 那麼少沒幾戶嘛 你把馬祖那個搬到台灣來我們蓋國民住宅給你就好了花那麼多錢搞機場 搞碼頭幹什麼李登輝總統這樣的想法我們回來以後講給老闆一定罵翻了我跟你講今天就跟川普總統講啊格陵蘭島 我就是要你是不是 你什麼格陵蘭"},{"start":89.434,"end":117.827,"text":"沒幾個人嘛我就叫你格陵蘭啊 可以這樣嗎這兩天我們前政務委員張景生先生啊發表一個謬論他說 桃園的高鐵啊為什麼要地下化為什麼要地下化台鐵地下化還是高鐵高鐵本來在桃園有一段時間地下化那地下化多五六百億吧他不需要"},{"start":121.919,"end":143.945,"text":"那今天馬祖大橋多少年了這個案子是賴院長在任最後一天我們總統啊 我跑到行政院找他為什麼 張景生政委在上面寫了一大堆的字我找古拉斯 那時候還是八月圓嘛"},{"start":146.881,"end":175.488,"text":"賴前總統很理喻我很像在開會吧跑出來他找張哲偉把那個字塗掉他寫了一大堆啊塗掉啊然後這個案把它確立是賴總統賴總統任院長的時候把它批定 核定的喔核定 所以花了一億五千萬來做可行性的評估那今天已經多少年下來了"},{"start":176.872,"end":203.557,"text":"你說是工程技術的問題 技術也沒問題啊什麼時代了還在扯技術啊你台灣不要被人家笑死好不好三公里在講技術喔 笑死人啊然後講經費的問題經費最近世襲也出包了嘛 對不對我們台電六接從一百多億 兩百多億 三百多億一直加 一直加 一直加 疊加說虛編"},{"start":207.455,"end":236.665,"text":"那我今天早上還跟鄭運鵬董事長通電話你這個馬祖大橋從八十幾億 七十幾億搞到一百多億 兩百多億 三百多億 四百多億那麼你講什麼四千億好了 不要做了怎麼可以這樣子搞呢部長我請問你到底做還是不做不要再拖了我們目前都還在程序的過程所以當時的政策方向就是往前走"},{"start":237.403,"end":265.478,"text":"昨天公路總局什麼意思我要你們11月份開會你們11月份開會我正好pass過去了我沒空我說12月份開會我要去你們12月份會就不開了現在是幾月 1月是不是你們去了一張公文給連江縣政府請連江縣政府去調查我們的原住民去調查這個橋要不要蓋"},{"start":267.366,"end":293.962,"text":"你們在講什麼啊你問這個東西幹什麼 我請問你跟委員報告就是11月開完第一次工作會議完之後那委員在也關切說第二次會議的時候要來參加那我這邊也一直在籌備第二次會議啦籌備 我說每個月開一次啊你們有沒有反對啊你現在第二個月了 你不開然後現在在執行台上面回答我說在籌備"},{"start":294.775,"end":321.343,"text":"跟委員報告 並不是這個不開因為第一次會議這個開完之後也是希望說這個第二次會議能夠如期來做這一個進行好 你要連江縣政府說這個橋蓋還是不蓋什麼意思跟委員報告下因為當時院核複有一些意見要再做檢討再做這個確認所以這個部分的話誰核複嘛 誰核複嘛這個院核複的這個意見下來那有些因為你們是誰囉 你公文拿給我看"},{"start":323.743,"end":334.949,"text":"跟我們報告一下就是說這些意見我不曉得行政院裡面有多少個張景生啊張景生現在是誰啊他是政務委員嗎他只是一個老百姓而已你知道嗎"},{"start":336.414,"end":360.914,"text":"他在網路上隨便寫一些文章我當一個立法委員就要回答他問題喔很像說我腦殘啊是不是這樣跟張前政委的意見無關怎麼會無關呢因為這個案子就陳武剛剛部長所提的部分是在程序當中因為有報上去然後這個意見必須要再做檢討那我們現在跟縣府也在就是說相關的一個意見的檢討卻張景勝政委已經打臉賴清德總統"},{"start":365.899,"end":391.716,"text":"他認為這不可行 你賴清德總統你這個腦袋有問題他在打臉他了你們政務體系的政務官你們不用替賴總統來講話嗎你們不用解釋一下什麼原因嗎是不是馬祖未來的前途就在這裡嘛你們怎麼可以這樣子部長你回答我 到底編還是不編"},{"start":393.103,"end":407.059,"text":"你編還是不編你講清楚報告員不做就算了你講一句話現在還沒有到編跟不編的點那要拖多久因為現在行政院你拖到國民黨執政還是拖到共產黨執政你要拖到什麼時候"},{"start":408.732,"end":437.443,"text":"我們還是按照程序在走啦程序走八年啊交通部在努力的過程您也都參與在內您應該很清楚交通部一直程序一直往前在走不是沒有你部長失職嘛你部長為什麼這個案子可以讓他拖那麼久你部長有問題啊交通的建設尤其這種大型的建設不是交通部說可以就可以不是 你不敢跟院長反映嗎"},{"start":438.547,"end":467.959,"text":"你不敢跟總統報告嗎這個案子怎麼可以這樣拖那麼久陳允聖在先不是沒有聲音耶我現在每一次的質疑我都要提到這個馬嘴大喬我每一個案子在政府部門都會有很嚴謹的審查那交通部的部分是是是交通部的部分花了一億五千萬耶花了一億五千萬不嚴謹嗎錢都花完了耶白花花的銀子耶你現在不找司機重新再去整理一下是不是要三百八十億嘛你問清楚嘛"},{"start":469.246,"end":496.161,"text":"是不是 前面有個台鐵的台電的六階的工程已經虛編了嘛你到底虛編了多少嘛你把真實的這個預算把它呈現嘛好不好我們不是不考慮啦好不好我來找世西也討論一下啦好 另外一個喔講到公安署那個福山局長你也在我問公安署他說你們錢沒有到位給他們"},{"start":499.468,"end":502.66,"text":"我們觀光署的補助倒退了台灣好行"},{"start":505.359,"end":531.338,"text":"以前給一千萬一年現在給四百萬你要我們公關倒退是不是包委員在新的這個財化法裡面確實公路局能夠補助給地方的財化法不會少你一毛錢我跟福山局長保證其實真的有少我是國民黨的立委我站在這裡這裡是交通委員會我保證不會少你一毛錢我保證沒關係我一個人可以打十幾二十個"},{"start":532.54,"end":539.225,"text":"我不諱言啦 我們國民黨黨團這邊我也沒關係啦我一定會幫你們講這話 但是你全部能少"},{"start":540.305,"end":566.548,"text":"你不能少你這錢不能少好不好少了多少是不是我請局長回答報告委員大概就是我昨天跟你報告就是說以往這個公務局供應這個經費好啦你昨天講過了啦你把錢給公安署公安署把錢給地方就這麼回事啦但問題是他沒錢你說錢他你錢沒給會給嘛給完以後你馬上就要給了好不好可是問題是他沒有錢就不只我們一個縣市挖挖叫欸各縣市都在挖挖叫好不好"},{"start":567.95,"end":586.042,"text":"還有那個橋子那個工程做一半 放那邊 公安署你們錢要給錢啊 橋子頭端就大邱橋那有沒有 頭端啊頭端的預算啊"},{"start":595.506,"end":617.085,"text":"這個應該是跟縣政府還在討論 兩邊還在討論部長 馬祖大橋的預算我今年要看到你們上預算還有福山局長你那邊 你要通知我開會再忙我都會去你不通知我開會就會生氣喔我要注意交通部你們在幹什麼 好不好 謝謝謝謝陳雪生委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167333","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167333","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88dd3d0cba610f0d006bf384bcbb560abab6e897797ecb76ba135377653bbc0bde5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"11:10:37 - 11:20:46","影片長度":"00:10:09","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:10:37+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:20:46+08:00","duration":609,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.85784375,"end":8.805968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.844093750000001,"end":7.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.20596875,"end":39.602843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.923468750000005,"end":62.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.822843750000004,"end":64.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":68.93159375,"end":71.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.37409375,"end":95.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.35784375,"end":96.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.75846875,"end":109.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.07284375,"end":111.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.30034375000001,"end":123.43784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.84284375000001,"end":137.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.91659375,"end":153.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.03221875,"end":181.18409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.92659375000002,"end":217.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.08971875,"end":226.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.10096875000002,"end":232.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.57284375,"end":279.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.96909375,"end":234.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.35909375000003,"end":249.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.48096875000005,"end":281.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.71284375,"end":280.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.09221875000003,"end":321.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.00159375000004,"end":330.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.96659375,"end":350.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.06471875,"end":359.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.97471875,"end":360.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.93659375000004,"end":375.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.97221875,"end":380.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.51159375000003,"end":387.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.03784375000004,"end":390.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.55221875,"end":393.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.68659375000004,"end":399.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.83346875,"end":403.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.36034375,"end":409.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.26221875000005,"end":432.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.62159375000005,"end":443.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.78846875000005,"end":476.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.60221875,"end":475.90596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.66534375000003,"end":567.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.70471875000004,"end":494.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.97471875,"end":495.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.69346875,"end":512.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.96346875,"end":512.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.3684687500001,"end":571.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.7053437500001,"end":597.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.21596875,"end":600.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.70909375,"end":601.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.7765937500001,"end":601.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.8103437500001,"end":602.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.02971875,"end":605.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.7084687500001,"end":605.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.77596875,"end":605.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.8603437500001,"end":606.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.32846875,"end":607.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":607.37909375,"end":609.47159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.882,"end":7.518,"text":"好謝謝趙偉那我們一樣請交通部陳部長請陳部長然後我們一樣請這個觀光署陳玉秀署長請陳署長"},{"start":14.269,"end":38.994,"text":"委員好 部長好 署長好我想今天開始還是要跟大家討論一下我們這個觀光的問題當然這兩天有新聞披露說我們老牌的旅行社很多旅行社遭到勒令停業那觀光署公布了有46家名單那這一方面反映出可能真的國內的觀光產業相對的衝擊比較大但是這個今天不是要跟大家討論產業問題那既然發生就發生但是我們要討論說民眾的消費者權益的問題"},{"start":40.214,"end":64.615,"text":"這觀光署公布的46家名單那新聞上跟政府都說提醒消費者不要被騙但是我想要問一件事情是說我們這是我們政府的責任不然交通部觀光署裡面我們去公布因為每年海暑假之前都去公布這種旅行社的查核結果那公布完披露了資訊之後那還要做什麼事情我們有什麼責任嗎還是你們的責任是公布完就沒事了"},{"start":69.039,"end":95.462,"text":"是不是請旅行業組的組長可以啊是 跟委員報告我們其實這個是法定要公佈的事由所以我們會依照法規來公佈那公佈之後其實有一些狀況是譬如說他今天是因為財務狀況被我們停業的話我們就會請他提這個財務改善計畫那必須要確認他財務有改善之後我們才會復業如果他一直沒有改善就是停業那其實這個部分的作為也是為了要保障消費者的措施好 謝謝組長"},{"start":96.883,"end":119.354,"text":"我跟部長跟署長 我想要確認一件事情這是我每次看到這個新聞的 我的疑問想先利用這個資訊來了解一下就是其實我現在問的問題是說 那我作為消費者我是每次出遊之前 我有義務跟責任我自己要去上觀光署網站查詢說哪些被停業了嗎那還是說觀光署這邊有沒有去橫向聯繫 包含說經濟部也好 經管也好"},{"start":120.074,"end":143.935,"text":"就這些被勒令停業被公告停業的廠商為什麼還會有消費者被騙是因為他還能收費嗎他還能繼續延攬生意嗎那其他在其他的平台上面他的網站上面或他的金流他的銀行帳戶還可以繼續收款嗎這件事情有人在處理嗎還是說今天他雖然被勒令停業已經一次是16家那我看那個清單上非常多家有的有名有的不有名"},{"start":144.485,"end":152.999,"text":"那今天他在他一樣照樣在假設他在報紙上或在網站上刊登這個招攬CNN的廣告他可能要賺最後一筆要跑路了不管他怎麼想法"},{"start":154.073,"end":181.123,"text":"他看這張廣告然後有相關的這個帳戶也都出來然後能夠去繳錢然後也付費了但結果發現女士已經被勒令停業了這是我可能事後才知道但是我問說事前或是你們在勒令停業的那一刻開始有沒有去做橫向聯繫讓相關部會包含是經管會經濟部也好去包含經濟部要停他的這個營業執照嘛那他的經管會他的銀行帳戶要被凍結或是不能再收這個相關款項嘛等等的這部分有沒有人在處理還是就公告就沒事了"},{"start":182.577,"end":202.051,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們其實一般會呼籲消費者就是你要找旅行社之前你要先到我們的那個官網上去查詢我們是會請他查詢合法旅行社所以這停業的名單不會在我們合法的旅行社裡面那剛剛委員有詢問到這個橫向聯繫部分那我們的旅行社其實現在如果被停業的話他就是不能再經營旅行業務"},{"start":202.952,"end":217.375,"text":"之前到現在我們都也沒有看到旅行社就是說他被停業之後他還有繼續去收款這些情形 沒有那我們會發現的話他通常有財務狀況的話我們會事先來來做相關的處理那停業之後他就不會再營業也沒有這樣子的案例"},{"start":218.14,"end":232.17,"text":"我先確認一下他是自己沒有做這件事他沒有做這件事還是他不能做這件事但依法他不能做啦但是我的問題還很明確嘛就是說這家旅行社他的收款的這個他的公司帳戶或是負責人帳戶等等的有沒有被中我講委員的問題蠻明確啦"},{"start":234.231,"end":254.944,"text":"就是說希望我們除了官方署這邊勒令停業之後除了我們自己勒令停業應該橫向聯繫上也要通知到經濟部那邊甚至是經管會那邊讓他們清楚說後續的例如說金流的狀況就必須要被管控或者是說他的公司登記等等之類的這個部分就要有所處置"},{"start":256.485,"end":281.47,"text":"那這個部分其實是可以做的我們是不是請觀光署也朝這個方向就是我們勒令停業之後雖然說我們現在看起來勒令停業之後沒有發生後續委員所擔心的狀況但如果可以做得更仔細那當然是更好我們來討論一下看怎麼樣讓其他的橫向聯繫可以做得更完善那這個部分討論之後我們再跟委員來做說明好 謝謝部長我想真的就是要"},{"start":283.117,"end":298.48,"text":"你們積極一點去把這個當然目前我照你們所說假設真的還沒有發生那未來可能會有人想到就是說就是經濟不好或怎麼樣也是因為一次46家我想這數字也相對比較震撼那可能不要說真的這個產業有些影響我們擔心的就是說像"},{"start":299.201,"end":321.541,"text":"就像诈骗问题是一样的依法都不能做过去也没想到会有人这样被诈骗但是就是会有人想到这种途径所以我们当然希望至少在这个相关的这个金流上面能够把它阻绝然后没办法去收费当然就不会有后续的问题这是我觉得感谢部长的回应那接下来我们讨论一个旧议题之前上次我们也那个观光署署长可以请回"},{"start":323.072,"end":328.824,"text":"之前我也諮詢過就是推動自行車旅遊這國人說法當然部分那當然後續交通部門有回我一個這個說明"},{"start":331.001,"end":360.164,"text":"你們說回去會討論檢討拿回一個說明那說明後來的結果其實跟之前是一樣的就是說還是一樣還是維持原規定就是說還是一樣車架的高度有限制然後建議可以往後面加裝這個車載的這個車可以裝在車後不要超過50公分這些都是本來就這樣子那上次提出來討論就是說有沒有可能去放寬相關的規定為什麼會做規定因為假設今天要推動綠色旅遊要推動自行車旅遊我們講一下國人目前以"},{"start":361.025,"end":374.481,"text":"先以你們上一次辦環法車賽的大會車的高度來講它那個休旅車的高度本身就已經很高了然後再加上自行車它一定超過法定限制這是第一件事情第二件事情是我按照國內"},{"start":376.221,"end":393.501,"text":"現在比較暢銷的幾個熱門的這個休旅車的款式車款平均高度大概就落到170到180左右公分它的高度大概是這樣子那如果再加上車價那加上這個單車的車高單車車高當然很多種車高那我們查了一下比較"},{"start":394.741,"end":408.566,"text":"通用的我們用UBIKE來舉例UBIKE的高度是105.5公分所以如果你的車身本身已經180了再加上車架再加上UBIKE以UBIKE為標準的話105公分你的高度一定就會超過285公分"},{"start":410.347,"end":431.777,"text":"那基本上你只要開車想要把這腳踏車運具再去任何一個地方去騎乘的話不管是參加比賽或是觀光的用途它的高度會超過285公分它就有機會或一定就會收到罰單我想包含每年我們現在在日月台每年既定雖然去年跟今年都有辦去年前年都有辦比賽今年也會辦比賽"},{"start":433.017,"end":460.474,"text":"這個大會的這些車 這個大會的收容車或者是這些選手的這些車子相關的高度如果這個東西沒有放寬的話或是沒有去做特別處理的話它是不是繼續會有罰單的問題高委員其實大部分的車型都不會有這個問題啦福斯有一款車子是會有這個問題那很多的車子其實就像我們的建議放在車後的也相當多所以基本上會影響到的車型跟真正會影響到的民眾並不多 並不多"},{"start":462.055,"end":476.171,"text":"公路局這邊也有針對說實際上在檢視的過程當中該怎麼樣讓他在安全的條件之下能夠符合他們也有一些做法包含在檢驗的過程當中也有一些做法是不是請局長來回答"},{"start":477.332,"end":500.357,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下上次大概委員很關鍵這樣子的課題那回去我大概也請同仁就是說去把這個問題做一個了解那我先跟委員報告就是說這一個小型車上面放這個自行車的一個部分的話大概有分這一個兩種一種是這個家庭用的那另外一種就是剛剛委員講的參加競賽有點類似保姆車這樣子的部分"},{"start":500.837,"end":520.836,"text":"那一般如果是我們駕用的部分大概一般的休旅車高度大概這個OK那如果說是屬於大型競賽他們那個保姆車大概都用福斯的車型那福斯這個相對這一個就是這一個比較高就會有這樣子的一個情況那我所了解目前實務的狀況那有些這個保姆車要去克服這樣的情況就是拆輪胎然後降低這個高度"},{"start":521.777,"end":544.514,"text":"目前我大概那另外一個部分有些是這個把它放在這一個保母車裡面那另外一種是後面有用輕型半舟車的一個方式去做但是我現在就是說請這個局裡面同仁跟車安中心去比對先就是說這些相關車型的一個部分因為如果說要在這一個放寬等等部分的話就必須要考慮到因為一上去的話"},{"start":545.354,"end":566.907,"text":"有這些保護車有很多是這個要行駛高速公路做運送的部分那個風阻的部分還有安全的部分就必須要做考量那這個部分局裡面現在有在通盤做一個這個檢視那我跟委員報告如果說在安全的條件之下這個高度可以做一個調整的話我們會盡可能朝這個方向來做調整但是還是要以這個安全為前提"},{"start":567.421,"end":597.061,"text":"好當然安全很重要這沒有問題那當然說這個高度限制這個定下的規定因為這個討論我說真的這大概也十幾年討論了我在 survey 相關資料上次最早相關的新聞可能出現在2013年之內就十幾年前了就開始討論這件事情那已經過十幾年後我想現在的車子的它的技術它的高度跟過去相比應該相對比較進步一點它的車架的能耐和相關的這個設備應該也有進步很多所以我覺得這個要盡快的還是要去做新的檢討不要一直"},{"start":598.282,"end":605.033,"text":"沒守成規啦 我講真的就是這樣好不好 可以嗎好 謝謝委員在安全的前提之下我們來做討論好 謝謝好 謝謝黃建華"}]}},{"id":"167340","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167340","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88ec22d3e4b18b35d452fd623850d83d5bb6e897797ecb76ba508f01eb9e990b995ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:08:00 - 12:17:24","影片長度":"00:09:24","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T12:08:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T12:17:24+08:00","duration":564,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.06409375,"end":12.585968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.176593750000002,"end":16.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.63596875,"end":19.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.96034375,"end":22.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.33534375,"end":54.385343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.62159375,"end":59.329718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.806593750000005,"end":67.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.53096875,"end":67.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.80096875000001,"end":72.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.45846875000001,"end":74.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.14596875000001,"end":74.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.68596875,"end":93.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.52034375000001,"end":82.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.54096875,"end":84.89534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.52346875,"end":89.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.68784375,"end":89.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.70034375,"end":90.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.58596875,"end":98.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.35721875,"end":103.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.57596875,"end":103.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.74471875,"end":106.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.09034375,"end":106.79909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.52909375,"end":107.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.55846875,"end":108.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.16596875,"end":108.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.19971875,"end":108.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.21659375,"end":109.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.41471875,"end":109.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.46534375,"end":110.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.69721875,"end":123.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.83596875,"end":114.15659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.59534375000001,"end":115.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.11409375000001,"end":116.68784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.07971875000001,"end":122.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.50534375000001,"end":125.39534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.39534375000001,"end":125.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.46284375,"end":129.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.69909375,"end":125.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.71596875,"end":126.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.46659375000002,"end":131.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.06534375,"end":131.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.45346875,"end":136.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.15346875,"end":134.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.18721875,"end":134.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.53721875000002,"end":135.62159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.39784375000002,"end":140.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.76846875,"end":140.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.85284375,"end":147.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.92034375,"end":141.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.38346875000002,"end":149.13846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.13846875000002,"end":149.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.29034375,"end":185.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.34096875,"end":149.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.12846875000002,"end":190.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.02221875,"end":207.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.70721875,"end":211.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.64346875,"end":212.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.62221875,"end":213.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.36471875,"end":219.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.26659375000003,"end":223.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.81034375000002,"end":225.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.57784375000003,"end":228.28221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.32034375,"end":229.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.78846875000002,"end":241.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.73659375000003,"end":236.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.32659375000003,"end":250.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.08096875,"end":247.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.21971875000003,"end":255.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.65346875000003,"end":256.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.86846875000003,"end":260.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.09159375,"end":260.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.14221875000004,"end":262.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.82534375,"end":262.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.97721875,"end":264.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.04471875,"end":263.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.98096875000005,"end":268.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.47409375,"end":272.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.86596875000004,"end":272.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.88284375,"end":273.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.22034375000004,"end":275.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.78534375000004,"end":286.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.78784375000004,"end":287.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.47534375000004,"end":289.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.03221875,"end":298.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.43596875000003,"end":302.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.03846875,"end":303.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.91596875000005,"end":312.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.55159375,"end":321.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.80346875000004,"end":324.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.44846875,"end":327.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.46909375,"end":330.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.78096875,"end":331.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.45596875,"end":334.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.17284375,"end":335.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.48909375,"end":340.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.50096875,"end":343.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.08284375,"end":345.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.58034375,"end":350.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.06534375,"end":347.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.74409375000005,"end":354.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.52409375,"end":359.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.97471875,"end":380.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.61284375,"end":382.73909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.97534375000004,"end":384.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.62909375000004,"end":384.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.37159375000005,"end":385.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.38846875,"end":402.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.84784375000004,"end":389.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.90471875000003,"end":412.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.23784375,"end":404.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.83971875000003,"end":421.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.66221875,"end":416.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.84346875,"end":416.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.88909375000003,"end":428.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.61784375,"end":430.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.14909375,"end":447.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.33471875000004,"end":432.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.04159375,"end":445.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.97784375000003,"end":448.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.02846875,"end":448.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.53471875,"end":455.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.31096875000003,"end":449.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.36034375,"end":459.03096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.12784375,"end":464.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.43096875000003,"end":465.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.08909375,"end":478.01534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.63159375000004,"end":476.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.32346875,"end":478.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.15034375000005,"end":481.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.20471875000004,"end":493.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.45221875000004,"end":494.11409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.20284375000006,"end":500.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.40471875000003,"end":497.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.42534375,"end":500.86409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.44221875000005,"end":501.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.48846875000004,"end":501.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.50534375,"end":531.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.28034375000004,"end":510.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.5034687500001,"end":513.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.6047187500001,"end":513.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.99846875,"end":532.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.1672187500001,"end":543.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.1840937500001,"end":532.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.5915937500001,"end":550.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.94909375,"end":552.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.5734687500001,"end":556.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.9734687499999,"end":557.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.0578437500001,"end":557.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.0915937500001,"end":557.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.29409375,"end":557.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.96909375,"end":558.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.0703437500001,"end":558.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.15471875,"end":558.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.92596875,"end":565.14096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.073,"end":18.804,"text":"好 主席 在場委員先進列席政務機關所長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生好 我們就有請部長了 部長迫不及待了來 那麼也還要同時請我們看事負稅署好了蔡專門委員還有我們的保險室的張司長"},{"start":23.41,"end":47.358,"text":"周委員好部長好剛剛我在外交國防因為是僑委員會對於台商跟僑民的一些關心跟照顧那我這裡呢也很肯定啊過去在你擔任部長之前您也多次造訪很多都包括東南亞國家印象深刻的那時候在薛瑞元部長的時候我們曾經就衛武部的叫做通訊診察"},{"start":48.798,"end":73.738,"text":"治療辦法我們要擴大適用了對不對對你還記得吧這個越南台商也拜託過也是您的督促下我們把它完成了好那我剛剛在那邊詢問的就是說會不會未來會持續的跟僑委會合作不過只有越南馬來西亞聽說下個月要去菲律賓未來會繼續擴大包括亞利桑那美國鳳凰城都會適用吧我們逐步逐步規劃"},{"start":74.779,"end":92.707,"text":"那當時我要求的是說除了國外之外我們國內的矯正機關有很多的受刑人因為高齡化他們年事偏高慢性病心血感經病多那麼過去如果要借戶送醫又要這種情況很耗費人力未來如果說法務部有"},{"start":93.647,"end":110.353,"text":"拜託有要出經費你們可以協助他把這樣的一個通訊診療方辦法擴大因為本來裡面就有矯正機關嘛那過去比較少用嘛好像只有兩個只有精神科跟皮膚科那如果未來法務部有這個需求你們願意協助嗎"},{"start":111.033,"end":136.175,"text":"我們去年8月就放寬矯正機關 都可以可是目前只有兩個在示範如果有這個需要 因為我們健保還幾副喔這個比台商還好在境內的好來請趕快兩個科別在去年在部長在署長任內最後一個月我們已經所有的科別都可以不只這兩個科別所有的科別都適用"},{"start":137.096,"end":163.695,"text":"但是因為矯正機關裡面內部的設備可能比較不夠而且事實上如果有他原來就是慢性病原來的醫療機構在幫他照顧健康的可以持續的照顧部長支持吧支持那今天我們本的本題是我談國民年金法其實我們很欣慰因為總統跟卓院長都有宣誓宣布要讓台灣好生活台灣好生活當中的國民年金"},{"start":164.515,"end":190.052,"text":"老農津貼調高為一萬之後我們行政院也支持衛護部把我們國民年金調高從四千拉高到基本五千那我們再往下看所以過去國民年金保障不足假如醫院低有這些問題包括幾乎過低調整太慢排污過嚴而且對於高齡者跟生長者的保障不足對不對所以往下來看那我們多次本席也多次"},{"start":191.073,"end":205.086,"text":"呼籲調高國民年金不過因為受到憲法的要求75條以及包括預算法跟財政紀律法我們立法委員立法院不能違增加政府支出這決定因此那時候我就推了一個345億用財務法當中的一個"},{"start":208.749,"end":224.111,"text":"留下來的一筆用途不明的金額來做部長還有印象吧有有有那時候我就主張要調到8000啦因為有345億可以用嘛但是呢如果只有345億也只能做不到一年現在呢我們拿納入體制還是要修法但是這個目標部長未來會不會繼續支持"},{"start":226.761,"end":253.829,"text":"我們幾乎提高機制調整對我們是整個財務的情況我們來提高所以這一次行政院的版本就已經一樣都調升23.5%那包含這個身障的會達到6715很好這都很正面那往下看所以你們現在幾乎提高了你們修正了牌幅這很重要過去在我們非都地區往往他一個人他住的是什麼留下來的老舊房子甚至在農業區可是"},{"start":255.689,"end":263.861,"text":"房屋房地產估計限值被調高之後他就沒有辦法得到了那CPI的指數你們也調了那還可以做得更好嗎我們有沒有還可以繼續做強化的地方 部長"},{"start":269.52,"end":287.615,"text":"我往下看比如說你們第一個金額增加所以我剛剛期待說未來還是有一個8000的目標因為目前縣市的最低生活會14000那如果按照A4跟B4去算其實目前只有5000的這個樓地板還是太低部長會不會覺得你要繼續努力"},{"start":288.856,"end":312.692,"text":"其實我們這個五千的部分是基本對他是屬於國民年金的保險對象他還會覺得他的繳費年資還是會對所以說我提的這個八千九千這個部分部長可不可以來努力好不好有機會啦有機會那這裡面要問一下但是我所知道的目前財政部昨天前上週四出一個消息過上個月啦應該去年啦我們好像"},{"start":314.575,"end":327.615,"text":"稅收比預期的少了好像算一算少了500億因為貨物稅關稅的等等還有一個地顏的支出是不是這樣子這位是貨物稅組是嗎簡單講好不好時間已經過來去年的情況是不是比我們預期的稍微不足"},{"start":328.516,"end":349.829,"text":"有這個情況嗎還是你忘記了是是這樣那是就好了我很怕你說不是但是我們希望在台美對等貿易能夠協定確認之後確保台灣對外的經濟成長能夠繼續成長好像是上升到8%了對不對所以我們希望在未來稅收充裕的情況之下"},{"start":350.782,"end":377.053,"text":"行政院來支持衛護部把這個目標來努力好不好在財政有增加的情況之下這樣可以吧可以可以喔 往下第二個就是這次我們修法的本題36條我們認為在財務法修改之後這全部的860億通通由中央政府來負擔這不對啊你同不同意未來財務法現在修改之後地方也不少地方有錢啊是不是我們的36條您覺得因為你們這次都沒有講到36條你們一直沒講到36條你們只要講到那三個事情"},{"start":380.675,"end":384.289,"text":"但是我們期望呢行政院門之外36條部分你們會不會考慮"},{"start":385.941,"end":412.754,"text":"這一次我們的修法沒有涉及到這個中央跟地方的分攤因為行政院另外有提出一個這個新的才化法的這個修正所以我們是希望按照行政院的才化法的新的版本按照新的版本在那個新的版本之下中央跟地方的分配較為均衡所以這種情況之下或許未來中央跟地方共同分攤國民年金的"},{"start":414.191,"end":428.003,"text":"幾戶的這個部分你們可以看再來討論好那也不勉強往下看好那這次呢這些我們也提到了有沒有幫助這次呢過去欠費無力繳納想要回流的本金加利息的這個部分你們有沒有幫助回流欠費無力"},{"start":432.422,"end":455.471,"text":"來 哪一個要回答我們還是會協助啦就是真的沒有能力的因為像低收入戶我們本來政府就補助了嘛那如果是有這個困難的我們還是有這個分期繳款的這個方式那修正後兩年內補繳這個保費跟利息的時候利息減半徵收 負稅組的看法怎麼樣也是沒有準備到這一題"},{"start":460.165,"end":475.183,"text":"好啦沒關係啦好啦這一題我們讓你回去再惡補一下啦再往下看好來接下來呢在我們的老農津貼國民年金都有所調整的情況之下衛護主管的有六大攝護津貼嘛保險師知道哪六大吧"},{"start":476.103,"end":492.532,"text":"知道了我不用考你都寫出來了那這個未來有沒有考慮要一併做調整我們這個六大津貼裡面有三項是屬於低收入戶另外有三項是屬於邊緣戶就是中低收入戶或者是服役對象這個目前都已經有覆案了會經行政院同意之後我們會盡快宣布"},{"start":501.576,"end":530.347,"text":"我是覺得如果真的對人民福國利民的要趕快講讓人民知道而且呢前提是是在我們國家財政可以負擔的情況之下所以希望財政部密切的跟衛福部合作透過足跡總署在這樣的一個國家資源調度上當我們國家人民的經濟成長我們的打拼有這樣成果的時候不管是透過稅收來表達應該優先來照顧弱勢者部長你同意吧同意我說優先照顧弱勢者就不是要去照顧那些"},{"start":531.627,"end":554.784,"text":"優勢的退休後很有錢的那種好最後的結論了所以三個第一國民年金給付金額增加勢在必行未來希望有這個八千的目標希望行政院來努力好不好那至於中央跟地方的分擔的部分還有鼓勵民眾回流的部分這個三個方向是不是繼續來努力對對對那最後呢六大福利今天一併天了好不好好謝謝部長謝謝市長好謝謝總委員"},{"start":564.012,"end":564.032,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167339","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167339","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a881d9a1f3afa4f4d3f6bf384bcbb560abab6e897797ecb76ba39e6445d9208886c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"12:05:58 - 12:09:53","影片長度":"00:03:55","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T12:05:58+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T12:09:53+08:00","duration":235,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.56659375,"end":2.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.91659375,"end":4.047218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.73409375,"end":10.172843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.15159375,"end":27.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.032843750000001,"end":15.235343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.80471875,"end":17.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.21659375,"end":57.82784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.97971875,"end":58.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.19471875000001,"end":74.77034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.05721875,"end":145.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.56284375,"end":79.83284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.52471875,"end":81.31784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.99534375,"end":93.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.28659375,"end":159.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.73346875000001,"end":148.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.10721875000002,"end":195.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.02721875,"end":186.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.67971875,"end":199.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.15596875,"end":230.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.58159375000002,"end":229.61534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.86409375000002,"end":231.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.72034375,"end":233.46284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.30659375000002,"end":234.32346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.32346875000002,"end":236.24721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.604,"end":3.025,"text":"好 我們請部長請陳部長委員好"},{"start":11.175,"end":34.835,"text":"部長好 部長上一次我們諮詢的時候 主要是針對這個鐵路高架化的部分那現在嘉義民雄還有這個雲林的斗六他們都在推動鐵路高架化那當然這對城市安全交通流暢都有很有的幫助不過在大林這一段這一段他可能會在整體的路線完工後他會出現下來又上去的這個狀況"},{"start":36.036,"end":56.789,"text":"那這個部分我們認為說對他的長期的整體規劃還有城鎮的發展或許工程的一致性他可能會不利所以我在去年的11月13日在這邊跟部長有討論過大林的高階化的規劃那我們今天還是再次的這個正式的再請部長來支持"},{"start":58.072,"end":74.427,"text":"那部長朵六市區的鐵路立體化的可行性研究在劉建國委員的推動之下還有協同還有協調交通部在14年12月24號已經將修正後的報告交下到鐵道局那現在我想"},{"start":75.448,"end":91.747,"text":"確認一下這個鐵道局現在以審查的要點正在做審查的作業當中應該沒有錯吧現在還在繼續的在推動當中那上一次我們提到的時候部長有提到說啟動這個立體化跟高價化的評估那需要由我們縣府這邊來提出嗎"},{"start":93.829,"end":122.549,"text":"那縣府這邊的提出當然是他必須要有做這件事情之後我們才有後續的規劃但我理解但是我在想說初步規劃的可行性研究是不是可以先從這個邀請部長先來大臨後跟我們的技術官僚一起來走一走跟縣府先辦理這個座談會跟縣地會刊也就是說我們先把這個中央的輔助規則地方的提案要件那如果要做的這些期程節點一次性來講"},{"start":123.45,"end":145.526,"text":"那我們當然是還是要縣府來去做這些提案不過如果由部長跟交通部的這些官員我們先就這個可行性大概先有一個事先的磋商事先的討論限定的這個場刊之後我們一次把這個節點這樣講清楚那後續縣府他們推出來的這個方案我相信也會更專業而且更符合行政效率不知道部長怎麼看"},{"start":146.486,"end":174.386,"text":"報告委員這個部分確實是要由地方政府來提出那如果需要跟地方政府來做溝通或者是事先的討論我們都很願意跟地方政府來做事先的討論那嘉義縣政府如果有這樣的需求我們就來跟他們討論好那我這邊就會特別請這個不管是證供所也好縣府也好那還有這個交通部我們就來這個戳上一個時間點我們先來看一下這個可行性是怎麼樣然後我們再來去推動這個部分"},{"start":175.427,"end":195.024,"text":"那部長這個我是希望未來交通部把大連它視為一個補齊路廊一致性的這個安全的重要節點它不要碎片化的去處理那因為現在從斗六啦或者是民雄大連這些如果我們用整體的這個用國家的視角用中央的高度去看的話"},{"start":195.845,"end":217.393,"text":"那我們能夠把它的完整性做得更好因為如果只是由因為其實現在各縣市交通應該是一體化來去考量的那不是說我這個雲林縣的斗六我這邊要把它處理好所以我就處理這個就是治標嘛這個也是治標但是如果我們要整體來考量的話其實交通部在事先的參與"},{"start":218.413,"end":231.26,"text":"那就可以 甚至是可以省下很多行政作業的這個流程所以這個部分我們也是非常感謝部長的支持那我們會在另外再邀約所有的小優關單位一起來參與好謝謝部長好謝謝委員好謝謝陳貫"}]}},{"id":"167338","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167338","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a883b0dcd7524819f076bf384bcbb560abab6e897797ecb76ba39e6445d9208886c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:57:57 - 12:05:43","影片長度":"00:07:46","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:57:57+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T12:05:43+08:00","duration":466,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.73971875,"end":1.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.0559687500000003,"end":3.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.9790937500000005,"end":8.012843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.012843750000002,"end":8.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.41784375,"end":26.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.42034375,"end":20.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.399093750000002,"end":21.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.74034375,"end":24.195968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.60909375,"end":28.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.190968750000003,"end":30.827843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.35096875,"end":32.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.21971875,"end":35.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.16471875,"end":36.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.53159375,"end":38.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.84721875,"end":43.500968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.85534375,"end":44.142218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.89721875,"end":46.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.977218750000006,"end":48.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.12034375,"end":49.508468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.065343750000004,"end":58.688468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.04284375,"end":77.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.62221875,"end":79.22534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.74409375,"end":86.80221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.63846875,"end":81.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.68909375,"end":82.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.98784375000001,"end":94.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.18971875000001,"end":95.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.75034375,"end":108.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.53471875000001,"end":98.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.18846875000001,"end":99.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.69784375,"end":107.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.21659375,"end":111.06846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.88721875,"end":121.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.09221875,"end":126.17159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.28596875000001,"end":133.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.50471875000001,"end":127.92659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.44034375,"end":145.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.30784375000002,"end":148.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.76721875,"end":154.96034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.14596875,"end":156.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.19659375,"end":155.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.58034375,"end":173.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.92784375000002,"end":176.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.37034375000002,"end":181.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.55534375000002,"end":182.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.97284375,"end":185.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.12034375000002,"end":184.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.09909375,"end":185.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.14534375000002,"end":191.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.39346875,"end":195.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.15659375,"end":199.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.10096875000002,"end":200.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.80971875,"end":207.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.23909375000002,"end":218.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.43971875000003,"end":238.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.42409375000003,"end":250.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.79346875000002,"end":259.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.78784375000004,"end":265.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.36909375,"end":273.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.13159375000004,"end":275.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.97096875,"end":279.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.66659375,"end":284.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.86409375,"end":290.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.41159375,"end":306.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.40909375,"end":312.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.79221875,"end":317.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.77034375,"end":319.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.40721875,"end":356.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.57909375,"end":326.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.71409375,"end":327.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.92784375,"end":336.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.70346875,"end":341.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.64846875,"end":342.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.12284375,"end":381.47346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.41096875000005,"end":376.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.47346875000005,"end":385.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.64159375,"end":385.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.70909375,"end":386.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.86096875000004,"end":390.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.26096875,"end":392.47596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.66159375,"end":404.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.01159375000003,"end":394.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.04534375000003,"end":394.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.26471875000004,"end":394.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.74409375000005,"end":420.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.03284375000004,"end":420.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.99471875,"end":432.09846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.09409375,"end":446.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.57721875000004,"end":449.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.41221875,"end":450.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.85096875000005,"end":455.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.20471875000004,"end":454.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.50409375000004,"end":460.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.07721875000004,"end":460.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.73534375,"end":461.59596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.59596875000005,"end":463.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.22846875000005,"end":466.08471875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.951,"end":27.74,"text":"謝謝主席我們有請部長請陳部長部長我先請教一個問題就是對於最新人非常關注的一個題目就是去年的時候我們有說我們要編列這個預算辦那個國際的大型的記者會演唱會吸引更多人來參可以讓我們的台灣最新人也可以觀賞對不對但是現在的總預算有到底上次我們這一條有被提出來討論嗎"},{"start":29.386,"end":58.46,"text":"我們在整體裡面有沒有放進來應該是有放進來有放進來我是在總預算的這個那我可以請署長來回答嗎好光屬的年度新增計畫裡面光屬的年度新增計畫裡面他當然是很重要的一件事情不過在上次有特別提出來討論的幾個案件裡面我們沒有備含在裡面"},{"start":59.093,"end":85.916,"text":"你們沒有被含在你也就是說原本交通部要做觀光署要做一個大型的這個國際的演唱會不僅可以帶動台灣的觀光然後也可以讓台灣的人追台灣的追星人受益的這件事情呢是被國民黨跟民眾黨給忽視的對嗎我這樣的理解正確嗎對嗎部長所以等於是我們的全體國人的這個追星人的權益因此而受損對嗎"},{"start":87.288,"end":112.218,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們還有在總預算裡面但是沒有被列出來是優先的這一塊總預算我們有編啦就是總預算沒有審但是因為他總預算他沒有優先然後也沒有審所以這個部分我們的權益確實受到影響我們本來是計劃因為坦白講理解演唱會的人都知道這個需要一段時間的爭取跟溝通我知道去年就已經在做這個洽談我們前置的作業盡量能夠提早"},{"start":112.438,"end":133.778,"text":"但是预算没有下来基本上我们现在要跟国外的艺人或者是公安公司等等去沟通的时候就会遇到很大的困难所以这个确实应该档期都不可能桥了很难桥应该是今年要落空了会非常非常不好做坦白讲这个确实会影响到我们争取国际的这个标杆旗舰型的演唱会受到很大的影响"},{"start":134.942,"end":156.036,"text":"對 所以我想就是這個對於全體的最新人來說是我們非常關注的一件事情可是這件事情卻因為我們的國民黨到民眾黨到這個禮拜還不審總預算那甚至這件事情也沒有被提出來討論而造成了全體國人的受益那我想這件事情是非常不OK的一件事情那接下來我就要針對這一次的審查觀光發展條例上面來跟部長做更多的討論就是部長我想跟"},{"start":157.476,"end":183.981,"text":"跟您提一下就是國際不然是Grandview Research或是President's Research上面都有講到我們的全球的生態旅遊產值是相當高的甚至從我們自己的2024年的年度報告也都發現我們有65%的人是非常喜歡是非常喜歡來參加這個台灣的生態旅遊我們的自然景觀其實是非常有競爭力的那"},{"start":186.221,"end":206.855,"text":"所以呢我們在2002年的時候呢當時其實是有做了一個生態旅遊白皮書但是就沒有之後了那我們現在遇到一個困境就是說生態旅遊在全世界這麼的發達那國外的旅客也很喜歡來看可是我們現在生態旅遊分散在國家公園法發展觀光條例和森林法"},{"start":207.395,"end":218.541,"text":"不同的法規裡面有不同的部會各自去管理那雖然說2002年有這個跨部會的小組提出了這樣子的一個白皮書那當初的建議事項其實都已經達成了"},{"start":219.482,"end":237.81,"text":"但是這麼多年過去了我們還是遇到了很多的食物上的問題也就是說現在社區有自主的協會培訓居民來擔任導覽員像是阿里山 拉拉山 宜蘭結合了農作體驗跟步道健行的一些主題課程強調低衝擊旅遊和在地飲食來吸引了我們所謂的國際的旅客"},{"start":238.51,"end":265.39,"text":"那第二個部分呢還有跨區域的聯合聯盟整合像是台灣生態旅遊與地方創生聯盟整合了65個社區把一些林山的景點串聯起來像是六龜的三半路線來提供更多的半日遊業遊等多元選擇那第三種呢還有我們這幾年講的希望可以回鄉創業返鄉青年他們其實也透過政府的補助呢把我們一些林山的景觀跟文化品牌化來平衡保育跟獲利"},{"start":266.451,"end":290.447,"text":"那現在就有一個最大的爭議在於許多的社區旅遊產品因為沒有取得旅行社的執照而被檢舉所以這些返鄉青年因為常常遇到這些所謂的檢舉是非違法經營那不勝其擾的團隊其實最後就是會放棄他原本經營的這個產品跟這個路線那有一些人可能就會轉成地下化那或是借用旅行社的牌照並支付佣金"},{"start":291.488,"end":319.097,"text":"那這個其實都會也會影響到政府的稅收啦那同時呢過度的生態旅遊可能也沒有考慮到環境負載量的一個問題那反而讓我們喪失生態的一個資源所以我請教一下部長就是說在我們現在沒有一個專責法制的架構之下那我們要如何確保我們的生態旅遊不會變成一般的觀光包裝而已然後甚至因此而造成我們的環境生態受到影響不曉得說部長你的想法是什麼"},{"start":319.477,"end":341.67,"text":"是 報告委員您剛剛所說的問題其實觀光署也有發現到這樣的狀況那這段時間其實蠻多人在反映這樣的議題那這個部分我覺得觀光署可以做出一個討論或者是引導的方向看怎麼讓大家比較有方向可以去依循那不過像委員剛剛有提到一個很重要的現在管轄的單位可能分散在各個部會"},{"start":342.651,"end":360.796,"text":"那我請觀光署這邊可以來統合討論一下不一定全部的管理權限都能夠拉在觀光署這邊但是統合討論一下我覺得這是應該要開啟的動作因為我們沒有開啟這樣子的動作對於很多想要參與這方面的觀光遊程的人來說會是非常困擾的會是非常困擾"},{"start":362.976,"end":381.236,"text":"而且我們也沒有整體去思考說我們的大自然的承載量可以承載到什麼程度沒有一個總體的規劃或許觀光署來開啟這樣的討論甚至在我們的政觀之裡面是不是可以來做這樣子的題目的討論這樣可以跨部會來做一個討論跟決定我覺得會是比較好的方向"},{"start":381.496,"end":404.384,"text":"好 因為我想就是說今天那邊的地下經濟對旅客也沒有保障那今天沒有做好環境層載量評估對於生態永續發展也有不好的一個影響啦所以我想就是剛剛部長我非常感謝就是你願意開始來這樣子的討論因為我想我也提供一個案例來作為參考就是說其實澳洲呢它也有相關的從聯邦城籍到地方州政府"},{"start":405.144,"end":430.785,"text":"都有一個相對的一個法規跟管理機制的認證那我覺得這也是可以提供我們的交通部啦觀光所這邊是不是可以來去更進一步的提出具體的生態旅遊政策目標然後搭配我們的流程簡化還有受保護區的評估指引以及原住民合作的一個機制讓我們的生態旅遊有門檻有誘因也有清楚的管理邏輯"},{"start":433.208,"end":449.077,"text":"再來就是說我們在哥斯大利加還特別加入了一個環境影響性評估所以我想剛剛部長其實也有承諾了那我想我們大概多久的時候可以有一個研議或是評估是不是要往這個方向繼續來前進我們三個月的時間來評估這件事好不好"},{"start":450.738,"end":463.407,"text":"包含我們這個政官制的部分看有沒有辦法來做這樣子的提案我們上個月左右來評估那我也希望可以一併討論一件事情他有沒有需要進入修法這是不是也可以一併來評估好不好 謝謝修法陳明文也一併討論謝謝委員好 謝謝張雅玲委員"}]}},{"id":"167332","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167332","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88de47b1db7e53600a52fd623850d83d5bb6e897797ecb76badc3fb96d4c95e3195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"11:52:59 - 12:07:53","影片長度":"00:14:54","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:52:59+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T12:07:53+08:00","duration":894,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.26284375,"end":2.6297187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.18659375,"end":4.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.92471875,"end":5.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.14784375,"end":15.336593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.724718750000001,"end":23.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.30221875,"end":19.605968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.80846875,"end":19.926593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.21284375,"end":25.984718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.22096875,"end":27.722843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.515968750000003,"end":35.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.890968750000003,"end":32.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.23221875,"end":35.384093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.63721875,"end":39.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.21034375,"end":41.189093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.27346875,"end":47.719718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.02346875,"end":49.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.845968750000004,"end":50.875343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.94284375,"end":52.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.64721875,"end":54.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.45284375000001,"end":56.477843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.74784375,"end":57.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.31721875,"end":68.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.485968750000005,"end":58.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.072218750000005,"end":60.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.392843750000004,"end":60.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.17221875,"end":71.41221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.93534375,"end":74.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.20909375000001,"end":77.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.97659375,"end":78.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.06096875,"end":80.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.40659375,"end":110.20784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.35971875000001,"end":118.64534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.64534375000001,"end":119.01659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.93221875,"end":132.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.51346875,"end":126.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.68534375000002,"end":132.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.97221875,"end":133.00596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.00596875000002,"end":133.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.24221875,"end":140.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.99659375000002,"end":146.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.86096875,"end":143.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.12221875,"end":145.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.07971875,"end":151.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.14721875,"end":147.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.50971875000002,"end":150.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.11284375,"end":154.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.62721875,"end":155.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.99409375000002,"end":163.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.27659375000002,"end":156.64784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.32596875000002,"end":168.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.99659375000002,"end":166.40159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.56159375000001,"end":169.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.42221875,"end":174.43409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.59034375000002,"end":173.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.56909375,"end":178.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.58971875,"end":177.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.22659375,"end":186.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.02284375000002,"end":193.40159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.60409375,"end":195.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.30409375000002,"end":197.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.38409375,"end":201.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.28221875000003,"end":202.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.78409375,"end":205.12971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.19721875000002,"end":205.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.14221875,"end":216.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.96346875,"end":216.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.67221875,"end":217.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.16159375,"end":219.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.29659375000003,"end":217.33034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.38096875000002,"end":217.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.43159375000002,"end":222.84846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.08096875,"end":220.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.19034375,"end":222.46034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.51096875000002,"end":222.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.00034375,"end":226.30784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.45971875,"end":230.10471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.35784375,"end":233.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.47596875000002,"end":230.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.37846875000002,"end":234.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.89721875,"end":239.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.60596875000002,"end":235.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.33096875,"end":254.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.90784375,"end":248.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.02909375000002,"end":259.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.23096875000005,"end":259.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.51784375,"end":262.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.01096875,"end":267.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.33159375,"end":263.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.56721875,"end":273.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.97596875,"end":271.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.14846875,"end":276.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.25346875,"end":278.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.19409375000004,"end":284.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.69534375,"end":287.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.58096875,"end":292.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.01471875000004,"end":297.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.69784375,"end":296.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.55409375,"end":299.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.86596875000004,"end":304.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.66284375000004,"end":345.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.49784375,"end":333.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.13471875000005,"end":335.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.95159375000003,"end":346.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.03596875,"end":350.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.98034375000003,"end":379.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.75971875000005,"end":359.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.50596875,"end":362.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.85346875000005,"end":396.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.15471875000003,"end":428.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.77471875000003,"end":398.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.35596875000005,"end":404.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.69971875000005,"end":419.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.20034375,"end":428.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.21721875000003,"end":447.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.23409375,"end":428.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.04784375,"end":433.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.04534375000003,"end":451.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.57221875000005,"end":475.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.93784375,"end":463.28346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.46034375000005,"end":468.31221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.84346875000006,"end":471.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.91471875,"end":474.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.77096875,"end":481.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.32284375,"end":494.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.28284375000004,"end":498.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.31159375000004,"end":541.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.25846875,"end":546.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.6797187500001,"end":547.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.99596875,"end":549.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.1897187500001,"end":554.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.6784687500001,"end":560.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.68596875,"end":561.3272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.51284375,"end":565.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.47846875,"end":568.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.39784375,"end":574.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.97909375,"end":576.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.0547187500001,"end":579.7547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.9740937500001,"end":581.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.64471875,"end":582.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.99471875,"end":597.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.9890937499999,"end":592.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.0303437499999,"end":600.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.74721875,"end":601.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.45596875,"end":603.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.81846875,"end":605.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.53971875,"end":608.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.8640937499999,"end":610.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.99034375,"end":620.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.01846875,"end":631.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.3034687500001,"end":661.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.90909375,"end":644.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.0203437499999,"end":677.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.6184687500001,"end":668.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.4440937500001,"end":678.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.96721875,"end":678.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.5915937500001,"end":678.7097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.76034375,"end":693.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.3972187500001,"end":680.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.30846875,"end":681.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.18596875,"end":682.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.5190937500001,"end":684.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.61971875,"end":688.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.5390937500001,"end":694.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.0322187500001,"end":710.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.30971875,"end":700.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.72159375,"end":713.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.4553437500001,"end":713.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.79284375,"end":717.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.99471875,"end":719.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.6315937500001,"end":723.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.1540937500001,"end":749.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":750.3272187500002,"end":751.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":752.04846875,"end":754.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.2084687500001,"end":758.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.08534375,"end":761.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":761.6840937500001,"end":773.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":770.0203437499999,"end":770.4422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.0747187500001,"end":778.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.22596875,"end":777.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":778.94721875,"end":809.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":788.22846875,"end":789.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":793.13909375,"end":793.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":809.74409375,"end":810.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":809.7778437500001,"end":810.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":810.68909375,"end":810.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":810.84096875,"end":810.9422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":810.9422187500002,"end":814.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":814.5534687500001,"end":821.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":821.64096875,"end":822.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":822.1640937500001,"end":822.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":822.38346875,"end":829.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":829.09971875,"end":877.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.90096875,"end":832.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":832.2722187500001,"end":832.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":835.6472187500001,"end":835.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":841.35096875,"end":841.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":843.57846875,"end":843.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":850.78409375,"end":850.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":860.16659375,"end":860.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":877.9865937500001,"end":885.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.94784375,"end":885.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":888.48284375,"end":892.3472187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.271,"end":27.196,"text":"好謝謝主席我們還是請石部長請石部長部長好今天有兩個題目想要跟部長來討論一個就是強化我國癌症學名藥的韌性那第二部分就是醫事人員繼續教育公職任內的部分不過扣著今天的主題我還是先請教一下就是針對於假日及連續假期重啟"},{"start":29.828,"end":56.219,"text":"分級醫療政策的執行成效與改善方向的書面報告的第二頁裡面剛剛有蠻多委員都有關心到就是說UCC的服務好像當初設計是經過地方衛生局的評估那目前有13處那在執行的成果到現在剛好幾乎要兩個月這個兩個月以來就是服務的部分呢"},{"start":56.806,"end":71.299,"text":"看到就是有點好像白冷藍熱就是台北市現在平均每個月200人次那台南市呢就有到800人次當初在推估的時候有沒有"},{"start":72.3,"end":96.01,"text":"設想到這些各方面的可能性有什麼因素過來看我身邊就是很快能夠有應變的方案跟委員說明當時候我們也是在開設之前都有導衛生局還有專業學會 急診醫學會大家來討論那時候的幾個原則是第一個希望是民眾就醫在社區裡面方便的地方"},{"start":97.21,"end":121.627,"text":"能夠提供一站式的服務啦至少要能夠做檢查檢驗基本的檢驗檢查還有提供藥品第三個很重要的是說希望鄰近這個庸塞的醫院達到分流的效果所以才會做我們是給這個原則然後由衛生局去責定所以這個台北市確實它現在責定的三個點"},{"start":122.868,"end":135.963,"text":"看起來績效並不好所以我們也提到當時候就講十四半年後因為這是一個事半十四半年後會再進行檢討因為我們比較擔心就是算那個店"},{"start":136.881,"end":163.021,"text":"當初也評估過 如果說真的無法像有的點 像台中的點也慢慢在增加了那桃園有的點也很好 量也很大台南就更不用說 它是功能非常好如果說店不是說很好寫 那有什麼其他的配套讓他更方便一點這就是根據今天的主題 聲音跟部長請教的部分那第二個其實就是有關於這個"},{"start":164.346,"end":190.548,"text":"癌症學名藥的韌性 這個會牽涉到有關於代品韌性一個很重要部分 那我一直都很關心癌症病友他們在接受醫療過程裡面有沒有好的這個完整的配套那其實也很謝謝我們在健保署在113年7月份就啟動了生物相似性的藥品的鼓勵示範計畫那這個示範計畫到現在為止看起來的確"},{"start":194.749,"end":204.554,"text":"從112年的這個相似藥的一定量是有明顯的上升那謝謝部長跟署長這段時間真的很用心的去讓"},{"start":206.455,"end":233.489,"text":"達到這個三贏的這個可能性從原來的113年的7.38%提升到111.9%那看起來成效很良好現在已經到17了所以已經超過兩倍了所以根據這個這麼良好的這個示範計畫的成果就從生物相試藥又把它擴大到所謂的這個化學治療"},{"start":234.955,"end":254.518,"text":"學名藥這個有點繞口啦因為到底這個癌症用藥對民眾來講就是抗癌用藥所以他比較難了解什麼是生物相似藥什麼是學名藥那等一下還有標靶還有免疫用藥等等那我們也知道這個其實是一個非常好的方向"},{"start":255.063,"end":284.022,"text":"那也透過這些執行的方式尤其是獎勵措施的確能夠發揮的這個臨床的這個引導作用那如果說把這個化學藥用進來以後其實他就會有所謂的口服跟增劑一般來講生物相似藥都是增劑那如果針對這個化學一般說的那個化療的化學藥物的玄尼藥的話他可能會有口服又有增劑那這個部分"},{"start":284.775,"end":311.161,"text":"到目前為止差不多半年左右針對於每一個處方口服針劑的獎勵點數的這些部分不曉得有沒有初步的成果可以讓我們知悉我們剛剛說有從7.38%已經到17%那這個化學治療學名藥部分不知道有沒有初步的成果有有有跟委員說明那個生物相似藥那個實施的比較早那是113年就開始實施了"},{"start":311.721,"end":332.792,"text":"那現在已經到17% 16.9% 17%所以成效很好那去年開始的 那是下半年才開始所以大概半年的時間 我們的這15個項目癌症的化學藥的學名藥的使用率也從43成長到53了 也增加了10%"},{"start":333.832,"end":352.653,"text":"所以成效也不錯所以我們下一步就是像委員提到的我們越來越多的癌症的標靶藥都要準備要過專利期所以接下來會有越多的學名藥所以我們打算從化療藥其實我們現在癌症的治療"},{"start":355.114,"end":378.061,"text":"這個標靶藥物我們核准的品項是多於化學治療的藥物啦所以我們要把一些錢省下來用更多的新藥所以我們下一步大概今年第二季嘛第二季我們就會擴大到所有的癌症治療藥物的學名藥都會納入這個獎勵的項目所以不管是口服的不管是針劑的都適用那麼每一個處方都有獎勵的點數"},{"start":379.881,"end":389.665,"text":"所以意思就是說原先希望能夠到達70%的學民用藥的部分透過更全面的真的學民要來提供獎勵的話這個能夠達到"},{"start":392.23,"end":412.897,"text":"到這個目標的機會就更為有他的可行性跟他對對對我們的獎勵就是兩個方式一個是醫師在處方每一個這個學名要處方下來都有一百五十點的獎勵然後整個年度如果因為你轉換了這個藥物之後那麼你的這個這個支出啊藥費支出下降"},{"start":413.377,"end":427.073,"text":"下降那個額度我們還是回饋到你的醫院總額不會讓你下降那你就可以拿去用更多的專利期內的新藥的採購或者用在其他的醫療服務點數"},{"start":428.534,"end":451.196,"text":"所以預計從第二劑開始就針對於所有的用藥包括癌症用藥的學名藥包括是標靶跟免疫都有機會那當然他需要符合一些要件嘛就是要有原開發廠專利到期同時具有原廠藥跟學名藥而且具有價差或者是不分價差都可以把它原液進來當作一個可以"},{"start":451.716,"end":471.028,"text":"透過處方開立獎勵的清單是那這個部分在執行的過程裡面有沒有需要透過共理會的核准還是說還是要還是需要還是有個程序是那因為你是第二季所以是不是三月的共理會希望三月的共理會會把它納為一個重要議題來做討論好那就非常謝謝讓這個民眾在用藥"},{"start":475.862,"end":495.896,"text":"好的服務品質的過程裡面也能夠讓這個三贏的政策可以持續的來推動這樣不僅我們這個可以這個供藥的韌性多元用藥供藥的韌性更好那也可以為健保省一些錢之後我們可以進更多的新藥是好謝謝謝謝那這個署長先請回座來"},{"start":499.398,"end":516.183,"text":"跟部長再討論一下醫事人員繼續教育積分任內工時的部分我相信所有的醫事人員都會努力的來從事所謂的繼續教育因為繼續教育後面可以對自己的本質學能有更好的一個成長"},{"start":516.883,"end":540.601,"text":"那更重要就是能夠維持這個好的醫療品質所以基本上呢根據這個醫事人員職業登記跟繼續教育辦法裡面每六年就必須要修滿一定的繼續教育的積分才能夠辦理職業執照的更新這個是一方面維持這個好的品質一方面又能夠讓所有的從業人員醫療的部分有更好的這個"},{"start":542.342,"end":553.918,"text":"相關的這個能力這個是非常好的部分那可是這個過程裡面到底是在接受教育訓練的過程裡面是應還是要得到"},{"start":554.744,"end":582.393,"text":"可以將這個積蓄交流學問列為公教或納入公使這個對一般的同仁來講有時候他很努力的付出的過程裡面那如何同時也能夠兼顧他的工作還有他這個有關於公使的部分那這部分好像部長那個時候也在114年10月23跟這個護理團體他們有做意見交流的會議上面有做一些處理那也希望"},{"start":583.634,"end":607.929,"text":"應該僱主將所有所有人員在六年內所需要完成的120點就是每一年20點的訓練時數能夠給予工價或納入工時可是在後來114年12月26日這個衛生福利部就出了公函給這個護理跟健康照護師結果我們看到的這個內容就是說有關醫事人員接受繼續教育醫療機構"},{"start":611.024,"end":628.984,"text":"或得於每年20小時的範圍內餘工價這個譬如說大家在煩惱這個到底是願還是得跟委員說明這個勞動部在去年的10月有一個函示就是對於雇主要求這個員工應受的這個"},{"start":629.785,"end":645.618,"text":"在職訓練因那為公實所以我們現在未來的做法是這樣這個醫事人員的基本的積蓄消費基金6年120個小時的部分是因所以我們會再重新解釋說每年20或6年120個小時這個範圍內這個是醫事人員被法規所要求你要繼續執行業務要完備的所以要視為"},{"start":658.248,"end":677.226,"text":"雇主要求你的員工要完成的這個要因但是超出的部分你要鼓勵這個員工去進修什麼那這個就是德啦讓他有一個彈性120個小時6年120個小時每年20個小時以內這個是因超出的部分是德"},{"start":678.928,"end":693.793,"text":"公務人員也是嗎?包括我們其他的這個復活勞動的朋友這些相關的這個醫事人員都算嗎?是是是謝謝所以看起來今年在1月20號再發一個函式讓他離清楚"},{"start":694.133,"end":723.108,"text":"好好好因為這個部分也真的需要部長透過好的方式來示意包括說無論上課的形式跟地點都應該納為公式因為我們知道有一些是透過視訊有一些是到實體的部分那另外用下班的時間去上課的話就是說我下班後我又有這個訓練的需求我再去上課的話那這一部分可不可以納為加班"},{"start":724.929,"end":749.51,"text":"就是說我如果利用時間我已經下班了我去上這個繼續教育的課那有完成的話那可不可以算是加班再過來就是單位主管是不是針對這個列為繼續教育課程的內容還要不要再審查就是說好像這個既然都已經是屬於正式的這個教育課程的話有的朋友說我要去審查"},{"start":750.371,"end":776.934,"text":"我同意不同意的這個課程是屬於繼續教育如果已經得到認可的話還需不需要經過這個審查的程序這個部分可能也要麻煩部長利用在說明的時候或者是這些韓文的時候能夠把這些的部分當然也能夠讓所有這個議事同仁都能夠很確定的了解好我們在下一個函的時候我們把它釐清那當然這個"},{"start":779.235,"end":803.282,"text":"很簡單的做法反正你就是一年有20個小時的繼續教育的時數是認列在公司這是最簡單嘛這樣的做法是最容易的醫事人員他們會自己衡量你只有20個小時嘛那你結果20個小時去報出來的不是被認列在未來繼續教育那個是醫政"},{"start":803.982,"end":820.107,"text":"主管機關就是衛生局要認列的那個不在那個裡面那裡當然就必須額外去付出嘛好 那個就沒有問題還有一個部分就是上班時間如果同時上線去修這個課程的話那公司要怎麼計算可能到時候也要麻煩保證員額外索購一下"},{"start":824.872,"end":835.719,"text":"這個確實有這種情形譬如說我們會有一些Meeting那個Meeting就在你的上班時間那個Meeting又去報繼續教育的有這種狀況"},{"start":837.901,"end":861.882,"text":"這樣委員知道我們在醫院morning meeting 經常報學分嘛那個也在你的工時裡面那所以這個其實就是已經在你的工時裡面已經符合規定了這個就沒有額外再報那講的是說額外的你上班時間以外的那應該視為工假或者是工時要把它算進去算在總工時啦當天是在你的工作時間內參加的活動"},{"start":864.884,"end":884.949,"text":"你本來就是在Meeting然後報了學分那這個好像就沒有額外報了但是你額外的這個不在今天的工時額外的那應該要認列在你的每月的總工時裡面好好如果有一些疑惑的話用QA的方式來呈現再麻煩部長好謝謝謝謝謝謝王振旭委員發言接下來請鍾嘉斌委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167337","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167337","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88327ad13d4efe8d9b6bf384bcbb560abab6e897797ecb76ba39e6445d9208886c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"11:51:13 - 11:57:25","影片長度":"00:06:12","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:51:13+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:57:25+08:00","duration":372,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.25034375000000003,"end":6.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.46409375,"end":11.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.493468750000002,"end":11.640968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.872843750000001,"end":28.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.47784375,"end":32.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.30846875,"end":35.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.51909375,"end":36.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.89846875,"end":40.362218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.564718750000004,"end":43.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.884718750000005,"end":47.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.90534375,"end":51.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.98909375,"end":53.727218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.469718750000006,"end":56.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.899718750000005,"end":57.659093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.99659375,"end":58.688468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.26221875,"end":60.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.06784375,"end":64.02096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.94909375,"end":65.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.14721875000001,"end":67.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.50971875,"end":72.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.03221875,"end":73.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.41596875,"end":76.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.94721875,"end":79.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.42346875,"end":81.94221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.05596875,"end":85.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.87409375,"end":90.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.98721875000001,"end":94.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.54784375000001,"end":108.11534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.95909375000001,"end":109.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.05596875,"end":112.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.24534375,"end":117.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.12221875,"end":122.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.58971875,"end":125.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.03659375000001,"end":127.89284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.46659375000002,"end":132.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.53346875,"end":134.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.50784375,"end":137.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.81534375,"end":138.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.92909375000002,"end":140.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.00471875,"end":143.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.07596875000002,"end":146.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.45096875000002,"end":151.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.70346875,"end":151.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.41221875000002,"end":153.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.13346875000002,"end":163.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.98846875,"end":165.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.45221875000001,"end":167.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.13971875000001,"end":169.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.17721875,"end":175.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.93159375000002,"end":200.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.24159375000002,"end":191.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.31596875000002,"end":204.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.94409375,"end":209.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.00659375,"end":210.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.02346875,"end":210.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.05721875,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.41159375,"end":210.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.76534375,"end":215.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.57471875000002,"end":220.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.84034375000002,"end":225.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.97034375,"end":228.31596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.42971875,"end":231.74159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.02846875,"end":232.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.38284375,"end":235.13346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.12909375,"end":237.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.30596875,"end":238.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.40284375000002,"end":240.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.78659375,"end":243.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.30534375000002,"end":243.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.79034375,"end":243.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.80721875,"end":244.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.12784375,"end":247.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.97534375,"end":248.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.52784375000002,"end":252.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.68346875,"end":255.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.09221875000003,"end":261.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.52159375,"end":267.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.03971875,"end":278.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.48096875000005,"end":280.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.16846875000005,"end":282.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.66596875,"end":283.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.68284375,"end":283.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.90221875000003,"end":284.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.37471875,"end":295.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.82846875,"end":297.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.41034375000004,"end":304.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.13096875,"end":306.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.49346875000003,"end":316.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.59784375000004,"end":314.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.60596875000005,"end":318.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.91784375000003,"end":322.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.76096875,"end":328.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.65909375,"end":329.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.80659375000005,"end":335.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.83534375000005,"end":334.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.11346875000004,"end":339.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.55596875000003,"end":342.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.20096875,"end":348.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.77846875,"end":346.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.75721875000005,"end":348.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.82034375,"end":349.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.05659375000005,"end":349.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.07346875,"end":349.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.09034375000005,"end":356.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.68034375,"end":354.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.60409375,"end":356.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.78534375000004,"end":360.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.34596875,"end":360.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.48096875000005,"end":363.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.68721875,"end":366.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.75471875000005,"end":364.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.40409375,"end":367.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.92284375,"end":368.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.95659375,"end":369.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.33596875,"end":372.31034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.449,"end":27.124,"text":"主席有請部長請陳部長還有觀光署請陳署長部長好委員好有關觀光發展條例本席要提修正條文交通部的意見認為原住民保留地及山地管制區在"},{"start":29.594,"end":57.443,"text":"自然人文生態景觀期這邊你們認為不宜刪除這個我來說這個發展光條例第二條對於自然人文生態景觀期刪除了並不表示在原住民保留地如果是符合這個自然人文生態的景觀期這個定義的這樣的條件的"},{"start":59.315,"end":81.724,"text":"一样可以一样可以而只是说不要特别放在这里最主要就是说譬如说原住民保留地3t管制期以外的土地你符合的你还是要列为自然人文生态景观期譬如说军事管制期"},{"start":83.14,"end":107.329,"text":"有符合的還是要列入所以這個部分我們主條的時候也可以再討論但是我先說明你們回去之後再好好去了解第一個原住民保留地開發管理辦法對於原住民保留地有定義為保障原住民生計你把它放在這裡好像就影響了就會產生這樣的疑問"},{"start":109.008,"end":121.981,"text":"另外就是國家安全法對於3D管制區它主要的用意是在維護3D治安對不對然後你看這個尤其是後面這個"},{"start":123.669,"end":146.566,"text":"三地特定管制區 三地管制區分兩種一個經常的管制區 一個是特定管制區特定管制區還特別提到遊棄資源 得抵控人力 從事觀光旅遊及正當娛樂活動所以這個部分會有一個漢格所以我刪除了並不表示"},{"start":147.543,"end":174.755,"text":"就完全不能在原住民保留地來去只要符合這個自然生態這個部分當然就可以還是我們不會去動它是這樣你們再去評估一下下次審查條文的時候那因為時間的關係我還是直接跳到這個先從這邊談了那個跟公安署就沒有關係了"},{"start":178.455,"end":199.093,"text":"這個部長這個我已經提了很多次你也聽了很多次了因為115年度現在已經開始115年度了因為都沒有核定所以115年度也不可能了但是我們還是希望交通部能夠積極的跟"},{"start":201.757,"end":228.124,"text":"行政院溝通好因為你現在不核定的話你116年又不能編列預算會有這樣的一個情形這個狀況所以尤其是這個台鐵宜花東路段鐵路設施安全改善計畫有很重要的一個路段就是"},{"start":229.465,"end":246.55,"text":"何人到崇德這段而這段不論是鐵路或者是蘇花公路都連帶的關係是連帶的所以這個部分是一個在整個"},{"start":249.648,"end":277.94,"text":"花蓮台東很重要的一個路段所以這個部分一定要跟這個行政院做詳細的說明這個也沒有很多啦這個計畫也沒有像那個今天很多人談的這個要到高鐵的延伸不論是高鐵的延伸是到宜蘭還是到屏東"},{"start":279.831,"end":297.221,"text":"這個都小兒科的經費嘛是不是這樣 部長是 報告委員不管預算大或小但是安全的議題是很重要那這個部分我們會努力來跟行政院這邊來拜託跟溝通那希望可以趕快核定我們可以趕快來做對 因為"},{"start":299.934,"end":322.251,"text":"因為基本上這個經費真的不多不是很大如果要去跟這個高鐵的延伸來比當然高鐵延伸我們不反對那到底用什麼方式延伸就花蓮台東的人而言都是有幫助的你延伸到屏東跟延伸到"},{"start":323.8,"end":347.49,"text":"到這個宜蘭對花蓮台東也都有幫助都會比較近比較方便對所以這個部分是延伸的方式怎麼樣那是我們都不反對但是就這個安全就花蓮台東而言無論是鐵路或是公路的安全的部分這個真的是非常非常的重要所以這個部分要請這個部長"},{"start":348.968,"end":371.981,"text":"好 我們會來跟行政院來爭取因為這個對花東鄉親來說很重要這個尤其是安全的問題特別重要現在已經 反正115年對不對來不及編預算早一點核定就116嘛也是明年的預算了嘛 好不好好 我們來努力 謝謝委員好 謝謝鄭天才"}]}},{"id":"167336","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167336","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88cdd25d49fc124a226bf384bcbb560abab6e897797ecb76ba2b4aab974ddd87285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"11:41:55 - 11:50:57","影片長度":"00:09:02","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:41:55+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:50:57+08:00","duration":542,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.50346875,"end":2.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.69721875,"end":3.5915937500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.71409375,"end":7.000343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.464718750000001,"end":6.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.185968750000001,"end":10.020968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.35471875,"end":8.957843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.290968750000001,"end":11.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.767218750000001,"end":13.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.78409375,"end":14.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.05409375,"end":14.087843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.087843750000001,"end":14.239718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.239718750000002,"end":14.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.492843750000002,"end":47.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.884718750000005,"end":44.985968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.01971875,"end":45.087218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":45.087218750000005,"end":45.104093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.104093750000004,"end":46.032218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.032218750000006,"end":46.234718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.234718750000006,"end":46.690343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":47.736593750000004,"end":84.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.27096875000001,"end":92.50596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.67159375,"end":86.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.95784375000001,"end":90.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.45971875000001,"end":99.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.07034375,"end":104.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.25971875,"end":103.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.84159375,"end":104.92596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.92596875000001,"end":104.94284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.94284375000001,"end":105.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.01034375,"end":106.81596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.11971875,"end":115.47284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.02596875,"end":114.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.47284375000001,"end":115.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.94534375,"end":118.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.30784375,"end":123.42096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":120.85596875,"end":121.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":123.62346875,"end":142.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.09909375,"end":132.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.21971875,"end":146.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.94471875000002,"end":149.86409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.01596875,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.06659375,"end":155.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.70284375,"end":157.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.74471875,"end":158.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":159.06096875,"end":165.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":165.70971875,"end":169.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":169.55721875,"end":171.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":171.91971875000002,"end":174.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":174.92346875,"end":183.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":183.96846875,"end":186.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":186.97221875000002,"end":190.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":190.46534375000002,"end":208.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.22221875000002,"end":215.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":214.86659375000002,"end":221.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.60846875000001,"end":231.70784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":223.52346875,"end":223.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":225.10971875,"end":225.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.81846875000002,"end":225.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.36659375000002,"end":228.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.92721875,"end":249.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.20284375000003,"end":251.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.53596875000002,"end":276.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.07221875,"end":276.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.47721875,"end":284.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.96596875,"end":281.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.78846875,"end":284.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.96534375000005,"end":293.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.27721875000003,"end":290.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.70659375,"end":293.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.62159375000005,"end":331.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.22784375000003,"end":306.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.41784375000003,"end":333.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.54846875000004,"end":335.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.75909375000003,"end":342.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.69471875000005,"end":342.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.71159375,"end":351.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.03096875,"end":351.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.06034375,"end":358.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.05096875000004,"end":359.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.00846875,"end":360.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.70034375,"end":361.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.83096875,"end":362.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.01221875000005,"end":366.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.47159375,"end":367.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.88909375000003,"end":370.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.80846875000003,"end":376.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.32659375000003,"end":377.28846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.41096875000005,"end":376.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.28846875000005,"end":377.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.96346875,"end":383.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.13971875000004,"end":394.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.29159375,"end":384.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.65284375000005,"end":396.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.96471875000003,"end":412.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.96221875000003,"end":419.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.76284375,"end":425.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.68596875000003,"end":446.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.27221875000004,"end":427.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.27471875000003,"end":438.78096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.79784375,"end":438.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.69096875,"end":447.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.70784375000005,"end":448.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.29846875000004,"end":467.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.73846875000004,"end":480.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.29346875000005,"end":493.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.13096875,"end":512.9465937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.40221875,"end":524.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.35409375,"end":531.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.13346875,"end":534.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.1415937500001,"end":538.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.74471875,"end":536.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":537.01034375,"end":537.5672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":538.74846875,"end":541.3134687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.743,"end":4.849,"text":"謝謝主席 也要麻煩邀請我們部長還有鐵道局楊局長 還有台鐵公司請鄭光源董事長 還有公路局局長請053局長"},{"start":13.783,"end":32.362,"text":"委員好部長好今天也算是這個會期最後一次委員會開會我想還是來盤點一下我這個選區內的重大的交通建設的一些現況跟我們未來的一個這個可能預估的規劃簡單的看能不能跟我簡單說明一下第一個就是我們的"},{"start":34.224,"end":57.446,"text":"這個台六十二線延伸萬里金山的部分還有宜蘭的部分這可能都有經過我的選區那第二個就是這個台北民生線捷運的部分的一個現在整合的過程那就先請我們看部長還是局長沒關係都可以首先跟委員報告就是說我們關鍵那個台六十二往西往東的部分那這兩個計畫我們都是按照這個目標時程在推進這個當中"},{"start":58.767,"end":82.863,"text":"那這個就是說往西的部分那大概我們也在規劃就是說這個前島工程包括景美路還有那個另外一條就是關到下面去以後要出土的那個部分我們也在規劃要拓寬然後那另外往東的部分那這個院裡面也非常這個陳志文那邊也非常這個關切也在關切說如何相關的這個騎乘可以在這一個加速"},{"start":83.163,"end":106.568,"text":"那這兩個計畫的部分這可能環評或是綜合國家報告或是系社相關的期程有沒有相關的一些進度或者是預計可以跟民眾來說明系部的部分我是不是會後提供一個書面資料給你因為兩個計畫有些細節的部分我再提供書面資料給你所以台六的網系原則上應該現在應該在重規跟環評當中那我們預計今年或明年可不可以走完"},{"start":108.465,"end":122.93,"text":"先導工程的部分我們是預計說明年可以有一個先導工程先導工程明年的部分先做先動工那廣東到投誠那個部分的話因為廣東這個可能行政院剛核定那你們的重規跟環評大概哪時候要啟動"},{"start":124.207,"end":145.667,"text":"現在已經在做這個就是中規的招標的一個上網作業當中準備中規的招標的前置作業那個部分的話因為計畫比較大那個相關前置作業準備需要一點時間但是都是on schedule在做處理好 謝謝局長那接下來我們台北名勝縣的捷運是不是"},{"start":146.994,"end":174.126,"text":"局長可以說明一下我們現在之前有拜託我們鐵道局整合一下三四尤其是機場部分的一個經費分攤的一些問題嘛不曉得我們現在的進度是怎麼樣跟委員報告就是明汐縣的要增設八堵機場的這樣的一個經費分攤因為它涉及到明汐縣這個計畫跟西東捷運還有基隆捷運這個計畫那鐵道局在1月16號有召集相關單位來做開會演商"},{"start":175.006,"end":202.343,"text":"那當然因為這裡面的這個方案的分攤它的經費來說相對比較複雜一點但是我們有一個結論就是說基本上八堵機場的這個經費必須要納入明細縣的這個計畫裡面去做處理那怎麼樣去減少這個行政上的成本也就是說怎麼在明細縣這個計畫裡面呢可不可以透過不同的負擔比例來去做處理而不要去動到另外兩個計畫我覺得相對是比較複雜"},{"start":203.544,"end":226.223,"text":"那所以我們後續還會再跟這個新北市政府還有台北市政府來做那我們預計下一次的會議有沒有預計哪時候要可能這段時間要收集資料嘛整理一些大家意見那我們預計下一階段哪時候在藥劑山的地方政府前一次是還沒有規劃啦我想我們再來催促一下這個新北市政府因為上一次您說1月16嘛對不對好不好你們應該是給一個期限然後請他們整理一下資料在一定的時間內我們再來積極的討論啦再拜託我們的局長再幫忙那個林局長先休息一下沒關係"},{"start":232.068,"end":248.123,"text":"好那部長那我今天要跟您討論的另外一個是我們台鐵啦台鐵的一個運輸效率的問題因為我們的軌道現在就是這樣子那我們的其實在尖峰時刻那在北部的這個軌道容量的運輸大概都已經使用到達上限了啦那其實一直以來我們今天都有在講這個"},{"start":250.265,"end":254.848,"text":"避手區間的問題我們現在的台鐵原則上都是用固定式避手區間對不對那很多的民眾都提到說那我們有沒有辦法把它做一些規劃把它變成移動式的避手區間來增加我們鐵道的容量讓我們有可能有更多的車輛能夠通行那不曉得實務上這可能是民間的意見還是說我們有沒有做過相關的評估那它的可行性是怎麼樣子的"},{"start":276.5,"end":292.95,"text":"包委員 這個牽涉到耗資相關相當複雜的這個內容我在想說要不要請市長還是總經理這邊來因為我們軌道不沒關係 沒關係 誰講都可以因為軌道不可能拓寬了嘛我們唯一有機會的就是就從耗資系統下去改變那有沒有機會那它或者說困難點在哪一邊我麥克風"},{"start":297.637,"end":323.803,"text":"好 報告委員就是移動式必賽的區間剛委員講沒有錯我們現在就是固定必賽一個固定必賽大概1.5到2公里左右那移動必賽現在目前針對傳統鐵路各國現在目前並沒有做到移動必賽只有在捷運系統有做到CBTC就是列車互相通訊那這個部分在德國的這個STUGA"},{"start":325.043,"end":350.978,"text":"跟這個JR的系統現在有在做研究但都僅止於POC就是概念驗證的階段那所以目前如果要在台鐵來利用這種移動式比賽的系統耗資系統來提升運能短期是幾乎是不可能那我們有要做相關的研究嗎你說可能德國做一些研究或者說國外的研究的經驗我們有沒有在參考"},{"start":352.13,"end":367.155,"text":"有我們現在先前也都有透過跟幾位幾個高科大或是我們的中研院工研院都有集合相關專家學者有做過探討好像要"},{"start":367.995,"end":394.008,"text":"先做參考國外的這個開發的經驗來做一個專案不過這個目前都還是在我想總經理的意思表達應該是理論上可行但是實務上可能會因為可能列車種類太過複雜導致他在實施上面有一些困難但是這個方案是唯一目前唯一可能增加我們鐵道運輸量能的唯一的方式"},{"start":394.97,"end":418.655,"text":"對 就一個是透過移動B賽 他也是會縮短列車的間距另外一個是先前有討論過 就是把B賽區間把它縮短但是B賽區間縮短 必須要增加這個道旁的耗資系統所以那個投入的成本會很高好 我想這部分也要可能請我們交通部支持一下鐵道剛剛有講過 不可能拓寬的 容量就這樣子"},{"start":420.115,"end":446.481,"text":"車已經就這麼多的在跑了我們也不可能再像高鐵一樣還可以加車嘛對不對 台鐵還有容量嘛高鐵還有容量 台鐵沒有容量啦對啊 那就是說在現有的條件下再拜託我們的部長 公關運輸再請您多給無論是可能鐵道局做研究或是台鐵公司地線營運等等的我們再給一些支持 好不好那另外再提一個小的問題其實這個跟你的業務也沒什麼關係啦但是我是覺得你也可以盡一份心力的部分啦就是小樹市集你有沒有聽過"},{"start":448.329,"end":462.866,"text":"小樹市集小樹市集你沒聽過小樹市集他大概就是一個這個很多家長啦小朋友的東西換得很快嘛對不對那所以說他們就是有一些二手的一些小朋友的東西都會大家交流一下擺個攤那其實這個東西在雙北我"},{"start":463.567,"end":479.529,"text":"在雙北很盛行我不知道有沒有慢慢地往可能中南部去延伸那它就需要一個很大的公共的一個場域那其實在地方政府它都有支持那我有想其實我們交通部下面有台鐵對不對但是我們的台鐵因為我們是營運單位所以它都有一些"},{"start":481.391,"end":497.425,"text":"這個場地出租的辦法無論是盈利型的或是公益型的其實它這樣子的一個租金的收取模式它是沒有辦法讓小數市集在這邊去設置的因為小數市集它的本身的精神它並不是要賺錢或盈利而是基於資源永續爸爸媽媽覺得資源這個東西用沒幾次"},{"start":500.407,"end":519.737,"text":"大家來交換對 大家來交換一下這樣子的一個概念我是覺得大家可以評估一下因為我們地方政府既然都可以把這個空間拿出來來做爸爸媽媽的一個交流的場域我覺得我們台鐵我知道有現行的規定既然有現行的規定那我們就是要去做一些突破我覺得可以參考地方政府的一些經驗把我們的台鐵也可以跟友善育兒或者是"},{"start":525.321,"end":541.202,"text":"這個資源的永續利用去做一個結合啦我就是認為交通部這不是你的業務但是我認為你們或許可以做一件對國家也是有幫助的事情我們這個交通廠站的部分我們都一併來討論討論看有沒有這樣的可能性好 謝謝部長 謝謝各位長官謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"167331","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167331","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88c687fe27b351732d52fd623850d83d5bef4d1ce49928203b5195ddf4f073bf875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"11:44:36 - 11:52:53","影片長度":"00:08:17","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:44:36+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:52:53+08:00","duration":497,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.35159375000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.41034375,"end":3.1697187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.970968750000001,"end":6.915968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.1353437500000005,"end":13.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.665968750000001,"end":20.247218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.969718750000002,"end":14.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.60159375,"end":23.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.36471875,"end":28.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.47784375,"end":36.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.814093750000005,"end":61.422218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.219718750000006,"end":61.979093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.384093750000005,"end":70.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.586593750000006,"end":62.89034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.99909375,"end":69.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.00721875,"end":71.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.90159375,"end":84.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.64659375000001,"end":84.47346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.76034375,"end":92.43846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.18534375,"end":103.69409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.96471875,"end":102.14159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.32284375,"end":109.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.93346875,"end":129.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.27284375,"end":127.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.80846875,"end":131.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.97659375,"end":142.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.33096875,"end":132.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.15221875,"end":166.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.95534375,"end":159.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.40159375000002,"end":193.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.43034375000002,"end":172.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.17221875,"end":176.89784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.40159375000002,"end":199.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.00409375,"end":213.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.82659375,"end":201.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.24659375000002,"end":226.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.25346875000002,"end":223.69221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.04221875000002,"end":241.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.64784375000002,"end":237.96846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.80346875,"end":248.68409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.44784375,"end":252.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.73034375,"end":250.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.84409375,"end":256.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.40909375,"end":253.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.07971875,"end":259.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.04534375000003,"end":269.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.49221875,"end":261.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.37784375,"end":264.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.87909375000004,"end":274.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.24971875,"end":282.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.20721875000004,"end":276.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.04596875000004,"end":304.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.53596875,"end":305.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.32909375,"end":337.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.70846875,"end":309.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.39034375,"end":319.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.71659375,"end":367.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.96159375,"end":362.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.20596875,"end":365.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.65284375000005,"end":369.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.71596875,"end":369.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.99846875000003,"end":387.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.87096875000003,"end":377.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.73409375,"end":400.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.60971875,"end":421.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.46971875,"end":405.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.54409375,"end":415.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.95721875000004,"end":418.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.43346875000003,"end":436.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.04096875000005,"end":422.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.18221875,"end":441.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.14346875,"end":441.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.19409375000004,"end":444.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.99096875000004,"end":456.11159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.97659375,"end":457.37721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.21284375000005,"end":485.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.72284375000004,"end":461.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.20409375,"end":490.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.09409375,"end":489.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.48159375000006,"end":495.66659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.197,"end":22.731,"text":"針對國民年金會三個問題問你現在的版本突然調高到八千到一萬二先確認財源的部分就是中央跟地方分攤的部分執政黨希望有中央跟地方"},{"start":24.633,"end":36.368,"text":"有一些比例 按照他的財政的一個來源那如果說按照國民黨跟民眾黨的版本是希望完全是中央來支撐那你的態度是什麼"},{"start":38.304,"end":61.738,"text":"跟委員報告現在我們談的有幾個不同的項目就是在這個基本數的部分會涉及到保險給付跟津貼那我們現在目前的設計就是提高的部分的差額是由就是月的版本是由中央來支付第二個就是"},{"start":62.718,"end":84.228,"text":"關於商帳給付的增益是希望說能夠增加到10個月嗎那現在你們提的版本是大概商帳商帳我們沒有在這一次我們增加的範圍裡面因為它是一次性的我們這一次修法主要是針對年金的部分的保障"},{"start":84.848,"end":108.259,"text":"配偶的罰則因為他其實沒有設計很大的預算是不是應該立即實行配偶罰則我看幾位委員也有這個版本我們行政院的版本也是把它刪除的盡快可以審查之後就可以實施針對這次的急診主題就是想要問一些問題為什麼只有13處的UCC"},{"start":111.23,"end":131.39,"text":"這個是一開始我們針對當然一開始是想到那個庸塞的醫院主要都是在六都啦所以先從六都試辦那未來呢我們會按照這個民眾的需求會去評估是不是在其他的縣市也會擴大那我們先用試辦完之後再來檢討就是醫療院所只有一個是診所"},{"start":132.071,"end":161.003,"text":"那我想說這個一個診所他目前到現在為止跟其他醫院的那個他所服務的量的比較有沒有特別不好還是特別好還是差不多根文報告因為我們在這一次設UCC的時候的一個考量就是希望能夠一站式服務所以他不是像一般的診所他要能夠提供X光那他要提供這個檢驗還要能夠提供藥品才不會讓病人進來然後到處去轉診跑來跑去因為我看到那個所以要"},{"start":161.523,"end":186.816,"text":"同時達到這三個條件那個診所的規模要比較大我看那五大症狀我覺得說如果要用到醫院的成績很像是大材小用我是想說是不是應該是比較剛剛講的那幾個規模有的話就可以懲罰不然這樣子的話只有十三處然後全國這麼多地方而且只有六都才有那我們就在屏東的還有就在台東就是只會流口水"},{"start":187.336,"end":212.891,"text":"那我想說這次我們這個急診的大概你說目前是只有開診率是17%那我們這個偏鄉地區怎麼辦開診率啊就是過年的開診率我們現在還在調查當中那這個在以台東來講啦這個醫院都開了啦什麼醫院都開了對醫院都開了診所的部分還在鼓勵"},{"start":213.571,"end":238.813,"text":"我剛剛現在我聽到你們講到APP的部分是不是我比如說我今天旅行到南投好了那我是不是我周圍10公里內的有開業的診所或者是醫院就會如果有需求的我可以查得到我們那個APP就是先選你在哪個縣市哪一個區然後區之後還可以選你這個是哪一天你在哪一天今天是哪一天然後你是要看上午還是下午還是晚上時段然後選完之後它就"},{"start":239.474,"end":268.533,"text":"有開的通通就會列出來民眾已經可以完全的就是說上手了嗎有去實地去試看看嗎我們剛上線今天才剛上線我是覺得說你可以做一個evaluation比如說一個禮拜一個月以後一個月我們再調整然後下禮拜我們正式發布新聞稿我剛剛看了UCC的一些就是說申請的或者說一些懶人包那我比較沒有看到就是說針對UCC這個部分它有沒有所謂的考評"},{"start":269.934,"end":292.964,"text":"你們以後針對他們的這個以後他們的績效或是怎麼樣我們有幾個KPI啦除了看診量之外還有一個就是民眾的就醫滿意度那個都有在評估裡面最後就是我們針對我們醫療獎勵金發放的這個部分當然很多人都在講說加班費或是值班費應該免稅啦當然我們是百分之百支持"},{"start":293.524,"end":307.781,"text":"那是不是各個類型的子斑斑有些名稱都不太一樣所以你要怎麼去全部那邊在裡面比如說我們3D離島那個叫做它的名稱就叫IDS嘛"},{"start":308.922,"end":337.165,"text":"真的是可以納入在這次所謂的加班費值班費的一個免稅的因為這個這個其實對像我們偏鄉服務的人其實大部分的收入都是來自於這些他明明就是值班費可是他的名稱不是這個名稱嘛他就是什麼醫療獎助計畫然後那個名稱所以我是覺得說是不是你應該全部全面只要是醫護人員領到的相關的這個費用只要是關於值班費應該是加入納入那個免稅的範圍"},{"start":338.285,"end":366.965,"text":"對跟委員說明就是說在醫院的工作人員除了醫師以外都納入勞基法所以勞基法他就有工時規定跟他加班費免稅這已經適用那我們現在處理的是因為醫院沒有納入勞基法所以他的很多加班費他沒有辦法適用免稅規定所以才有這一次這個議題的討論那我們現在在計算的時候就醫師的部分我們是用他的總收入除以總工時所以即使你去IDS他也算入工時也算入收入所以他會被納在裡頭"},{"start":367.785,"end":387.265,"text":"這一個解決的方向對那最後就是關於那個獎勵金的那個他確實有沒有領到是不是一個申訴專線或者申訴的制度讓醫護委員去不要因為醫院的一些他的考量而延遲發放或者是說沒有發放給他是不是要讓醫護委員知道有這方面的一個訊息"},{"start":388.105,"end":411.478,"text":"我們同步也在新聞稿裡面也把它提出來我們是有一個護理的那個正義的申訴平台那因為這次可能還涉及到其他我們看看是不是用同樣的平台我看到一個所謂的門診打抗申訴這個部分就是OPAT那如果說他確實是在家裡需要一些諮詢的話他要怎麼來跟相關的醫療人員來聯絡"},{"start":413.659,"end":435.675,"text":"我在家裡打疫苗 打抗生素如果我有一些醫療的問題 我要怎麼去呈現我們這個OPAT的這個方案都是要求醫院要設立那個專線的就是他在過程當中有需要他有可以接觸的窗口 都有所以我們才有給管理費"},{"start":436.195,"end":455.494,"text":"我一個建議就是說其實在各個衛生局的那個窗口其實可以用一個APP就是說讓今天我原本放假可是後來我不想放假可是我有些地方可以去值班或者是去做這些諮詢的服務的一個工作因為一定會遇到一些人力的問題嘛"},{"start":456.375,"end":484.734,"text":"那我覺得我們常常會卡在什麼報備啊這些東西所以如果說你是把這些醫療的量能把它放在我們的衛生局的一個平台上面的話如果說我今天想要上班然後我就可以去看比如說恆春這邊可能缺醫生或者是缺護理人員我可以就就可以即時去報備然後我就可以去做這樣一個支援的動作其實也可以相對簡體我們偏鄉的這個醫療的量那個服務量"},{"start":485.234,"end":489.643,"text":"那是很好的主意 我們來研究看看好 謝謝部長很謝謝盧委員好 謝謝盧憲毅委員發言接下來請王振旭委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167342","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167342","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a8800f8bd3a703cf72852fd623850d83d5bb6e897797ecb76ba4db96ec05ca036185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"12:23:29 - 12:34:12","影片長度":"00:10:43","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T12:23:29+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T12:34:12+08:00","duration":643,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.9590937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.9590937500000001,"end":1.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.26659375,"end":12.771593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.46346875,"end":41.189093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.57721875,"end":60.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.73034375,"end":61.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.16909375,"end":62.367218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.83971875,"end":75.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.69096875000001,"end":69.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.91034375000001,"end":70.12971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.07409375,"end":115.28721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.36846875,"end":81.75659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.96284375,"end":85.11471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.19909375,"end":85.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.20221875,"end":92.65784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.54096875,"end":112.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.92846875000001,"end":155.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.98096875000002,"end":132.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.43159375000002,"end":136.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.10971875,"end":144.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.27346875,"end":149.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.85971875,"end":151.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.58096875,"end":153.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.33596875,"end":229.98659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.35159375,"end":162.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.50284375,"end":166.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.86471875,"end":173.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.50284375,"end":193.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.63596875000002,"end":205.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.59409375,"end":232.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.63596875000002,"end":350.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.74846875000003,"end":242.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.43034375000002,"end":252.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.76784375000003,"end":252.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.18534375000002,"end":254.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.88096875,"end":258.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.23409375,"end":269.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.86221875,"end":270.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.41346875,"end":279.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.81784375,"end":284.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.76284375,"end":285.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.36596875000004,"end":286.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.62284375,"end":290.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.92159375,"end":295.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.22471875,"end":299.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.76409375000003,"end":304.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.74284375,"end":305.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.94034375,"end":310.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.53034375000004,"end":314.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.54534375000003,"end":326.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.70534375,"end":328.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.14221875000004,"end":341.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.25596875,"end":342.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.47409375,"end":350.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.49096875000004,"end":369.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.41909375,"end":352.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.37034375,"end":366.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.21784375000004,"end":370.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.97721875,"end":396.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.70221875000004,"end":376.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.71471875000003,"end":377.28846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.17346875000004,"end":384.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.75471875000005,"end":390.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.48034375000003,"end":391.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.58534375000005,"end":394.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.72846875000005,"end":414.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.15596875,"end":498.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.75909375000003,"end":418.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.32784375000006,"end":449.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.68221875,"end":449.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.12596875,"end":473.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.08721875000003,"end":477.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.38346875,"end":563.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.31471875000005,"end":506.63534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.79534375000003,"end":509.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.70221875000004,"end":511.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.4265937499999,"end":519.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.1765937499999,"end":526.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.5053437500001,"end":531.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.9897187500001,"end":534.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.2209687500001,"end":539.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.36784375,"end":544.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.1184687500001,"end":547.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.16471875,"end":548.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.7253437500001,"end":552.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.1628437500001,"end":560.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.06971875,"end":563.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.9765937500001,"end":572.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.19909375,"end":575.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.05534375,"end":581.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.8772187500001,"end":579.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.48034375,"end":585.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.72909375,"end":582.4209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.3953437499999,"end":584.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.30659375,"end":631.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.7565937500001,"end":594.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.6797187500001,"end":601.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.2022187499999,"end":605.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.22721875,"end":611.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.0828437499999,"end":614.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.43221875,"end":619.0734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.51159375,"end":623.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.39221875,"end":637.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.57784375,"end":633.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.31534375,"end":641.82096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.188,"end":11.721,"text":"有請石部長部長好 剛剛中委員有特別提到就是說我們現在老農年金已經提高到一萬"},{"start":13.533,"end":40.898,"text":"老農我說老農那當然就是很多民眾期待就是說我們國民年金的部分也能夠比照老農那當然就是說我們這個如果是加入國民年金原本他可能就是沒有就是沒有從事這個沒有加入勞保那全部都是加入這個國民年金所以我們會覺得說有點這個有加入"},{"start":42.118,"end":60.351,"text":"領國民年金的這些民眾其實在這所有的這個保險當中應該是領得最少的啦領得最少的那有沒有可能現在我那天看到我們行政院已經有拍板就是說目前就是提高到5000那是不是可以再往上"},{"start":61.432,"end":84.694,"text":"其實現在整個我們這個物價上漲其實如果每個月五千其實還是非常的少那是不是可以請部長針對這部分你有什麼樣的想法跟委員報告 當然我們有各種不同的社會保險跟年金制度啦所以大家的起跳也都不是完全一致"},{"start":85.474,"end":112.216,"text":"所以我們這一次行政院版的國民年金的修法主要是也參考了老農年金的調整幅度所以23.5%的調整所以我們在這個基本的老人年金跟這個身障這邊都把它等比例的用23.5%把它調升這樣整個會讓政府整年的支出大概會增加到一兩百億啦那這是我們認為在財務上"},{"start":115.979,"end":135.328,"text":"這個年金還是要能夠我們這個是國民年金啦這個基金還是希望能夠永續的發展那以我們現在的收支還可以的情形之下那政府有多餘因為我們現在增加的部分都是政府用公務預算預租我們一年真正從收的保費出去的也不過300多億"},{"start":136.929,"end":166.156,"text":"那多數都是政府補助進來我們一年已經發到這個相關的國民年金出去的大概1000億左右了所以政府已經負擔了600多億未來會增加到800億左右所以一直在增加所以我們來努力在整個財務和永續的情形之下部長因為我們在基層跑的時候就是很多民眾會覺得說老農現在都到1萬了那我們為什麼還是在幾千塊這樣子當然會有相對的會覺得說我領的就很少嘛"},{"start":166.916,"end":184.758,"text":"所以我也認為就是說政府應該要照顧這個最需要被照顧的人所以我希望就是說部長針對這一部分我們再去思考一下那接下來我想請教部長就是說我們在這幾天看到就是印度的這個例白病毒"},{"start":186.6,"end":201.296,"text":"因為我記得在我們這個COVID-19那時候也是在春節期間就整個春節期間然後之後就大爆發那我想請教就是說立百病毒在印度或者是在"},{"start":201.976,"end":229.369,"text":"印度周邊的這個國家其實他們都有一些警戒啦那我不知道說針對我們台灣的部分因為再來就是這個寒假然後出國出國的人也很多尤其是這個過年期間這個到其他國家去旅遊的人或到東南亞或南亞這個旅遊的人也非常的多那我想請教部長針對這個立百病毒我們國家未來會有什麼樣的防範"},{"start":230.723,"end":257.578,"text":"是不是可以先請部長做一個回應跟委員說明這個立法院病捕的傳播主要是兩個方式一個是動物傳人主要是果服第二個就是人傳人所以目前在印度的案例中間有一部分個案是人傳人特別是醫護人員因為照顧這個病人的時候而得到感染"},{"start":258.138,"end":277.59,"text":"那它在社區大傳播的機會不大是因為它的R0值低大概在0.2到0.7左右所以它會下降但是致死率很高所以我們才會提高警戒那除了我們要把它已經有醫界的通告"},{"start":278.17,"end":306.326,"text":"給所有的醫師提高警覺如果有不明原因的這個有旅遊史同時有不明原因的這些神經症狀就是有腦炎的可能性的話那麼需要通報未來我們現在在預告中會納為第五類的傳染病強制通報那這個我們就可以提高這個警示那另外我們也跟農委會合作所以其實一直定期有在採檢因為剛剛提到果福台灣還是有也會有定期看有沒有這個"},{"start":307.567,"end":329.394,"text":"驗出來到目前為止的檢體還沒有驗出任何一個所以台灣相對的目前的風險是可控那再加上近期看到過去這個立白病毒雖然這個致死率很高但是在全球呢並沒有產生區域性大流行都還是單一的爆發點像曾經一九"},{"start":331.415,"end":349.853,"text":"1988年的時候這是馬來西亞有一次主要都是在印度跟孟加拉這個地區所以還沒有到整個區域性的流行過所以我們是提高警覺就是我們不要鬆懈但是目前大概風險上還是可控"},{"start":350.949,"end":369.564,"text":"風險上還是可能那我也想請教就是說因為這個過年期間可能旅遊旺季那有可能東南亞或是到其他國家那像泰國的話他們在那個路徑有做一些監測那不知道說國內會不會有這樣的一個措施"},{"start":370.505,"end":396.282,"text":"我們國內是這樣第一個我們在邊境那個發燒篩檢還是沒有拿掉所以進來有發燒的還是會被我們這個防疫人員察覺第二個還是會有這個警示卡就是你這個應該要注意哪一些未來如果有發生什麼症狀你要儘速就醫同時要表明旅遊史我們現在先從旅遊史這邊來強化臨床端的話提高警覺"},{"start":397.443,"end":413.169,"text":"好接下來我想請部長就是說我是接到民眾陳情就是說這個北榮這個民眾他是在北榮的這個眼科就是住院那他就發現他的病房上面就是針對就是鏡頭"},{"start":415.871,"end":440.952,"text":"病房裡面有那個監視器那是對著病床那他有跟醫院這邊做反應那也有打電話可能很多單位他都有陳情那也打到我們辦公室來做陳情那我們確實我們辦公室也有打電話到北榮去詢問因為我們覺得說病房裡面會有監視器那是不太可思議的事情那後來北榮也確定就是說"},{"start":442.573,"end":471.204,"text":"確實有這樣的一個監視器在這個病房裡面那是因為當時就是疫情期間可能就是負壓病房然後這個監視器就沒有移除這個監視器沒有移除那北榮他的說法是說他這個已經電源拔掉了就是說沒有做那個錄影的這樣的一個動作可是這個患者他會覺得我住在這裡面我怎麼知道你到底有沒有用"},{"start":471.564,"end":497.652,"text":"是不是有錄影那他會覺得說那我的隱私可能就全部都被錄了我想請教部長就是說除了北榮有這樣的一個狀況之外那全臺灣曾經在疫情期間有這個作為這個這個負壓隔離病房可能也許他裡面都有這樣的一個監視器那全臺灣是不是也有這樣的類似的一個狀況"},{"start":498.772,"end":525.178,"text":"跟委員說明就是過去我們這個基本上的這一些攝錄影主要都是在公共空間在私領域的話是不裝設的所以病房裡面是不裝設公共空間走廊這個護理站這個公共空間裝設私領域是不裝設除非有特殊情形像有一些精神病人那麼他會有智商傷人的情形那他在這個保護室裡面他是有裝攝影機"},{"start":526.158,"end":544.958,"text":"免得他又自傷有這個狀況沒有錯那這個是一般病房一般病房原則上是不裝所以我們會來提醒那可能是當時候因為有那個這個專責病房的關係醫護人員都盡量減少進入到房間裡面所以就透過這個攝錄影來其實"},{"start":548.201,"end":563.728,"text":"反應萬一有狀況的時候可以及時的處理那我們會發個函請大家再檢視一下原則上這些攝錄影以公共空間公共空間為主那不在私營域裡面裝設大家再檢視一次"},{"start":564.008,"end":586.278,"text":"部長其實我們那時候打電話給北榮的時候我們會覺得說這個應該是很容易是不是把這個鏡頭就先暫時拔掉嗎以後如果有貼起來就對啊或者是以後如果還需要變成專責病房的時候你再把它裝上去就好對啊有這麼困難嗎我覺得是最簡單就是把它貼起來就好啦是啊是啊所以所以我"},{"start":586.958,"end":611.195,"text":"透過這樣我會覺得說那其他全國各個醫院曾經當成專責病房的時候是不是也有類似的一個狀況所以我們希望就是說衛福部這邊針對這一部分可能要再做一個檢視那當然我們也希望白龍其實這個是很容易的事情就剛剛部長講的就把它打開就好了對啊謝謝委員的提醒就是病人的隱私我們還是要保護嘛是啊"},{"start":614.978,"end":633.63,"text":"他有這樣的疑慮你就趕快把這個不是整層樓每一間都這樣子當然是因為疫情的關係當時有這個需要可是疫情已經過了這麼久了那這個應該可以很容易就把它先把它移除掉嗎以後如果有需要的話再把它裝上去就好了啊好謝謝委員的提醒我們來進行這個跟醫院發函謝謝黃秀芳委員發言接下來請陳冠廷委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167341","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167341","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88f5640ff24f1e5adb52fd623850d83d5bb6e897797ecb76ba02a28a74111475595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"12:17:36 - 12:23:21","影片長度":"00:05:45","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T12:17:36+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T12:23:21+08:00","duration":345,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.88596875,"end":11.961593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.636593750000003,"end":13.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.500968750000002,"end":18.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.26846875,"end":27.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.30596875,"end":22.508468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.098468750000002,"end":27.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.75659375,"end":33.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.43971875,"end":30.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.524093750000002,"end":30.794093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.06346875,"end":39.079718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.31596875,"end":41.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.88096875,"end":43.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.75409375,"end":46.470968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.82534375,"end":48.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.64784375,"end":49.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.76159375,"end":52.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.102843750000005,"end":56.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.15284375,"end":64.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.63659375,"end":69.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.87221875,"end":72.05346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.77909375,"end":76.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.43659375,"end":78.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.51221875,"end":81.73971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.56659375000001,"end":88.86096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.44346875000001,"end":87.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.51909375000001,"end":93.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.05409375,"end":105.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.93971875000001,"end":98.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.52909375,"end":115.65846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.72159375000001,"end":119.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.32034375,"end":119.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.80971875,"end":121.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.12159375,"end":123.87659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.77096875000001,"end":126.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.59346875000001,"end":128.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.32284375,"end":131.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.74034375000002,"end":133.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.42346875,"end":135.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.97596875000002,"end":136.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.19096875,"end":137.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.03471875,"end":140.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.84846875,"end":142.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.08034375,"end":143.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.87346875,"end":144.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.22346875,"end":145.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.18534375000002,"end":150.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.58971875,"end":151.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.00721875000002,"end":152.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.05346875,"end":154.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.56784375,"end":156.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.42409375,"end":158.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.55034375,"end":161.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.76971875,"end":159.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.38971875000001,"end":162.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.39784375000002,"end":164.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.89971875,"end":167.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.85284375,"end":174.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.97409375,"end":175.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.86846875,"end":179.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.40784375,"end":180.77909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.23471875,"end":182.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.39471875,"end":184.44096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.94721875000002,"end":185.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.58409375000002,"end":190.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.49909375000001,"end":192.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.38471875000002,"end":195.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.57846875,"end":196.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.41784375,"end":213.55034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.98909375000002,"end":217.33034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.75221875000003,"end":219.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.70534375000003,"end":221.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.34221875,"end":223.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.60784375,"end":225.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.47659375,"end":232.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.21409375000002,"end":232.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.24784375000002,"end":232.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.72034375,"end":236.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.02784375000002,"end":237.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.00659375,"end":237.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.02346875,"end":240.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.78659375,"end":241.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.84971875000002,"end":250.20284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.25346875000002,"end":258.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.28596875,"end":286.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.50096875,"end":300.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.77721875000003,"end":301.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.44784375,"end":303.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.41784375000003,"end":311.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.74596875000003,"end":312.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.13409375000003,"end":312.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.89346875,"end":313.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.43346875000003,"end":320.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.65284375000005,"end":314.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.49659375000005,"end":315.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.11221875,"end":317.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.78284375000004,"end":319.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.37346875000003,"end":336.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.62159375000005,"end":325.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.76471875000004,"end":326.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.92471875,"end":328.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.98346875000004,"end":332.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.80159375,"end":334.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.97846875000005,"end":336.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.90159375,"end":345.78284375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.169,"end":33.185,"text":"主席 各位委員 請部長 請時部長政委好 部長辛苦了今天談的國民年金法本席也有提案 禮拜五會附委到時候在逐條審查的時候我們再討論 希望也能夠支持"},{"start":35.114,"end":63.524,"text":"那我們看這個國民現在另外講一個議題國民年金法53條原住民年滿55歲特別有這樣的一個規定因為有這個規定後來公務人員退休之前撫恤法原住民也可以降為55歲然後這個公立學校教職員退休之前撫恤條例原住民也可以降為55歲"},{"start":66.687,"end":93.103,"text":"那現在就是問題出這個老人福利法仍然維持65歲原住民沒有降低為55歲那這個延伸的就很多的問題我們看這個衛福部在早期針對原住民的長者裝飾假牙也是55歲然後長照也是原住民也是55歲"},{"start":97.118,"end":120.527,"text":"這個前任的部長現在政務委員當初在納入優先接種疫苗的時候演出名也是55歲相關的台南的老倫健保也是55歲新北的健保也是55歲尤其是這個敬老悠遊卡很多縣市都是55歲"},{"start":124.99,"end":150.08,"text":"現在重點在哪裡呢 他們拿了這個敬老悠遊卡坐公車 他們的公司公車可以然後坐捷運可以結果去坐台鐵的七間車就不行了就產生這個 怎麼一國兩制同樣的一個台北台中市的七億 新北市的七億這樣的狀況"},{"start":153.5,"end":179.257,"text":"就變成是這樣所以這個部分要怎麼樣能夠一致怎麼樣能夠一致事實上這個前任的院長蘇貞昌院長基於敬老以及嚴重於移民比較所以有降低那就一個標準現在是不同的標準他不必雙重標準"},{"start":181.8,"end":185.607,"text":"蘇貞昌前院長他也認同本席的"},{"start":186.816,"end":213.131,"text":"因為這個對一個老人家來講怎麼我坐公車可以坐捷運可以去坐火車就不行了因為常常那個那個七間車在同一個縣市的時候他坐七間車就不行鐵路的當然高鐵就是另外一個層面比較少會有這樣的一個狀況最主要就是鐵路的那個部分"},{"start":214.331,"end":239.182,"text":"所以這個部分其實相關的支出也不會很多事實上怎麼樣能夠把它一致所以希望衛福部這邊也能夠檢討老人福利法那條條文能夠做修正跟委員說明就是說老人的定義"},{"start":242.403,"end":257.41,"text":"國際上都有共同的定義啦就是這個年紀啦所以我們去調整齁這個老人的定義齁這個這個問題比較大不過呢在福利身份上應該要調整所以當時候因為就是考慮到"},{"start":258.45,"end":285.359,"text":"原住民跟我們國人一般的愚民有大概10歲的落差所以才將各種的福利身份下降10歲所以從65到55但是隨著我們現在不斷地在努力改善這個差距也在縮短現在大概在8歲7點多這個年紀但是我們也沒有去調整它所以是不是要用用定義上把它完全"},{"start":286.619,"end":301.087,"text":"固定下來還是說隨著福利身份上去調整我覺得我是比較favor後面的做法就是按照福利身份讓他不一樣可是老人的定義就是全世界大家都一樣這樣定我建議這個"},{"start":305.478,"end":334.497,"text":"你們可以你們不修老人福利法但是你們可不可以去協調這個交通部好我們來協調交通部那個他鐵路的部分鐵路法就加一條就好了好我們來協調希望他參照我們的這個福利的標準參照其他的那個因為其他的福利的都是都是用55對好的好謝謝我們用年金的方式來對好謝謝好"},{"start":335.919,"end":345.095,"text":"好 謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝鄭天才委員發言接下來請黃秀芳委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167343","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167343","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a881c9499aa7323b28052fd623850d83d5bb6e897797ecb76baad4d19330d4f164e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"12:34:20 - 12:39:59","影片長度":"00:05:39","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T12:34:20+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T12:39:59+08:00","duration":339,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.228468750000001,"end":6.544718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.1353437500000005,"end":8.063468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.746593750000002,"end":63.869093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.314093750000005,"end":51.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.35846875,"end":74.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.97284375000001,"end":117.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.14096875,"end":79.59659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.88721875,"end":83.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.91221875000001,"end":85.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.82221875,"end":94.14284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.43034375,"end":117.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.51471875000001,"end":141.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.41034375,"end":148.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.04221875000002,"end":145.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.05034375,"end":146.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.90659375,"end":148.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.73346875000001,"end":152.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.81721875000002,"end":174.87284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.16221875000002,"end":159.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.14346875,"end":171.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.10909375,"end":220.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.97534375,"end":299.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.76159375,"end":238.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.42659375000002,"end":249.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.39221875,"end":253.54409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.56096875000003,"end":253.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.13596875,"end":331.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.22409375,"end":330.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.98346875000004,"end":331.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.05096875000004,"end":331.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.60721875,"end":338.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.26909375,"end":339.97784375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.256,"end":28.803,"text":"你好 我們請部長我請石部長陳委員好部長好 部長我們現在有一些第一線在執行公備疫苗接種時那他們這些護理師還要接種資料跟接種時的確認那很多時候他們是要依賴人工查核只要資料不完整或者是記錄有誤就會有風險"},{"start":30.323,"end":51.171,"text":"那我們聽到很多第一線的醫護人員然後包含我們辦公室的同仁他的母親就是第一線的護理師他跟我們說他某些疫苗是公費補助他醫生一次但是因為接種記錄錯誤或查核這個疏忽會讓第一線人員讓民眾來重複接種那我們意思是說現在的這個我們不管是健保卡等等它已經是全面數位化了"},{"start":51.571,"end":80.018,"text":"理論上在公費接種的時候他應該要電子化智慧化也就是說他不用說我在這邊算這個間隔多久有沒有慢性病然後自己做人工上面的查核他應該是要直接顯示出這一個人適不適合可不可以來去做接種我想請教一下部長目前的這個狀況有沒有什麼其他方式來給他改善我們目前是公費接種紀錄應該都有都在雲端這是有的"},{"start":80.518,"end":101.423,"text":"那自費的部分有可能不完整有的人會自己打自費疫苗所以我們會去強化請醫院把這個自費接種的也上傳免得重複啦因為我們的公費政策也會改變嘛那有的可能你已經打過就不要再打了所以我們會強化那個自費疫苗的這個上傳雲端"},{"start":102.443,"end":123.941,"text":"那公費的部分現在都已經OK了那現在是我了解這個委員在提的因為有一些是要多次接種比如他完成接種可能要兩個度子或三個度子他要間隔所以他那個間隔的提醒是不是間隔時間OK或者是還不到"},{"start":125.062,"end":152.642,"text":"那這個比較屬於智慧化的提醒那麼或者是有沒有什麼禁忌不能打還是什麼我請CDC研究看看好就是說讓它儘快智慧化就不用讓它再因為每次的人工的審核就是多一份風險那如果自動可以把它做數位化之後就可以避免這些風險謝謝部長那第二個部分針對外籍再研究"},{"start":152.902,"end":174.396,"text":"外籍戶左的部分那衛福部最近有宣布說為了要去填補護理能力的缺口他們預計在2026年4、5月就會開放醫院來引進外籍戶左那我們看到這個消息我們有點擔心怕他是在躲避一些問題就是說我們醫院缺人所以補人這個是很"},{"start":175.256,"end":195.759,"text":"很簡化問題的一個方式因為現在很多只有護理執照真正的問題是工作薪資的條件或者是他薪資的結構讓人家不願意留在醫院那如果未來你說把外籍護所把他招募進來之後我請問說以後的這個行政的管理難道要交給護理師來做行政管理那這樣有達成行政減量的工作嗎"},{"start":196.94,"end":219.247,"text":"或者是說你要做這些事情的話你要給護理師行政加擠嘛那才有效的一方面提高他們的薪資改變他們的結構同時又有人能夠進來協助護理師來把這些問題解決我想請問一下部長你認為這個護理人口的這種缺口的主要解方真的可以這樣子用這種少一個補一個這樣的方式來去解決嗎"},{"start":220.347,"end":238.863,"text":"跟委員說明這個我們現在所提到的不叫做護佐是叫做照服員那麼這個照服員不會去替代護理的人力這個是兩件事情那這個主要的考慮是因為我們在過去這兩年有推動叫做住院整合性照顧"},{"start":239.563,"end":259.912,"text":"因為現在的高齡化很多住院的長者需要生活協助他可能在家裡面有長照來協助到醫院裡面沒有那這個工作有時候就會落到護理人員的身上所以我們才會開始有這個用共聘的方式那麼共同聘請這個生活的"},{"start":260.732,"end":278.874,"text":"輔助就是照服員來協助一些生活照顧也減輕護理人員的負擔那我們這個成效很好民眾的反應度很高他可以減輕他自己要聘這個看護的費用那同時醫院的管理也比較好因為由醫院統一來調度"},{"start":280.035,"end":299.09,"text":"那麼他的一些訓練也都能夠符合規定那這樣我們去年是全國參加這個計畫的是五千床左右大概一年花了五億我們有補助所以這個民眾的負擔是下降的那我們未來希望更多做到一半的病床大概要做到三萬床"},{"start":300.276,"end":318.788,"text":"所以他需要更多的造福人所以造福源呢我們才會說有一定的比例不是全部不能多於本地的這個造福源那開放讓這個外籍具有這個語言能力要有一定的基本的語言能力才可以而且也要取得"},{"start":319.468,"end":330.474,"text":"趙服務員的資格才能夠算進這個服務方案裡頭所以這個大概跟您說明一下那護理的部分我們會持續的去推升好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝陳冠廷委員發言接下來請葉委員"}]}},{"id":"17240","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17240","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685d600d02e1221ac87a3b6de55729bb299e692bdb9a1e47977a6aa1f5072119fcb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-29","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-29T08:37:57+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T13:23:00+08:00","duration":17103,"影片長度":"04:45:03","委員發言時間":"08:37:57 - 13:23:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1400.8753437500002,"end":1405.6847187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1405.6847187500002,"end":1405.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1405.75221875,"end":1405.8197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1405.8197187500002,"end":1406.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1407.1697187500001,"end":1411.9790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1412.46846875,"end":1453.0359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1453.2890937500001,"end":1489.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1490.0259687500002,"end":1522.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1522.61159375,"end":1583.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1584.9647187500002,"end":1614.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1614.6647187500002,"end":1627.1859687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1627.5403437500001,"end":1637.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1637.47971875,"end":1693.5722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1693.8422187500003,"end":1699.6809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1700.1534687500002,"end":1706.3634687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1706.7347187500002,"end":1713.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1713.4509687500001,"end":1719.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1719.9984687500003,"end":1725.7022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1726.09034375,"end":1745.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1746.18846875,"end":1747.2684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1747.5722187500003,"end":1754.1197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1754.5078437500001,"end":1761.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1762.0340937500002,"end":1771.2984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1772.5472187500002,"end":1788.4940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1788.8315937500001,"end":1811.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1811.44409375,"end":1816.1859687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1816.5403437500001,"end":1826.2772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1826.7159687500002,"end":1842.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1842.9834687500002,"end":1852.4672187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1852.63596875,"end":1860.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1861.2928437500002,"end":1863.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1864.02659375,"end":1868.0765937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1868.39721875,"end":1873.2403437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1874.5059687500002,"end":1887.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1887.6178437500002,"end":1893.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1893.7265937500001,"end":1899.1434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1899.48096875,"end":1906.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1906.8384687500002,"end":1950.1565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1956.3328437500002,"end":1960.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1961.8003437500001,"end":1964.2809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1964.9390937500002,"end":1966.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1966.98096875,"end":1971.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1972.2965937500003,"end":1988.8172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1989.5597187500002,"end":2002.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2002.2497187500003,"end":2008.8478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2009.2697187500003,"end":2010.9740937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2013.1509687500002,"end":2014.3322187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2016.3909687500002,"end":2017.7240937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2019.3272187500002,"end":2020.9640937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2023.6978437500002,"end":2028.2540937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2029.5365937500003,"end":2029.8909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2030.68409375,"end":2033.6034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2035.8647187500003,"end":2042.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2043.4078437500002,"end":2047.0697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2049.3984687500006,"end":2055.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2058.08909375,"end":2061.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2064.3497187499997,"end":2068.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2070.86346875,"end":2074.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2076.17909375,"end":2079.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2081.89971875,"end":2084.5997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2085.1903437500005,"end":2086.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2088.9872187500005,"end":2091.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2092.26096875,"end":2093.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2096.19284375,"end":2100.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2100.5634687500005,"end":2101.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2104.4784687500005,"end":2105.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2105.87909375,"end":2106.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2110.04721875,"end":2114.8397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2120.10471875,"end":2129.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2133.38534375,"end":2247.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2248.79346875,"end":2249.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2249.5528437500006,"end":2256.3028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2264.7909687500005,"end":2296.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2296.9040937500004,"end":2298.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2299.30034375,"end":2301.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2302.11846875,"end":2303.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2304.29534375,"end":2306.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2306.9784687500005,"end":2307.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2307.78846875,"end":2312.6990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2313.1715937500003,"end":2313.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2313.9647187500004,"end":2341.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2342.12909375,"end":2383.0847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2383.35471875,"end":2393.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2397.39471875,"end":2409.8484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2415.3834687500002,"end":2534.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2534.87534375,"end":2675.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2675.9503437500007,"end":2950.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2955.24846875,"end":2957.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2958.08346875,"end":2964.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2964.7322187500004,"end":2974.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2975.31284375,"end":2986.6865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2986.9734687500004,"end":2990.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2994.85409375,"end":2996.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2997.5203437500004,"end":2998.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3001.89096875,"end":3002.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3002.6334687500002,"end":3002.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3002.66721875,"end":3011.9990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3011.9990937500006,"end":3012.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3012.1847187500007,"end":3013.8553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3014.0915937500004,"end":3016.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3016.3359687500006,"end":3016.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3016.58909375,"end":3042.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3042.34034375,"end":3043.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3044.43284375,"end":3064.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3063.13034375,"end":3067.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3066.8428437500006,"end":3082.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3078.4190937500007,"end":3078.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3080.96721875,"end":3108.1697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3085.25346875,"end":3085.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3108.7097187500003,"end":3138.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3138.17346875,"end":3148.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3148.63596875,"end":3167.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3148.6697187500004,"end":3148.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3155.2340937500003,"end":3155.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3155.26784375,"end":3155.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3158.3897187500006,"end":3158.6934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3163.3847187500005,"end":3163.7897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3167.80596875,"end":3168.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3167.99159375,"end":3175.2647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3170.2528437500005,"end":3170.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3173.77971875,"end":3174.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3175.46721875,"end":3177.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3177.86346875,"end":3195.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3195.78471875,"end":3196.1222187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3195.9872187500005,"end":3212.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3205.9434687500006,"end":3206.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3212.35596875,"end":3212.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3212.5078437500006,"end":3224.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3224.23596875,"end":3264.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3262.4578437500004,"end":3266.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3264.8878437500007,"end":3281.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3267.4697187500005,"end":3267.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3267.92534375,"end":3267.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3276.8690937500005,"end":3280.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3281.42534375,"end":3287.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3284.26034375,"end":3284.6315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3286.89284375,"end":3287.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3287.75346875,"end":3298.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3295.4315937500005,"end":3295.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3295.46534375,"end":3296.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3296.0390937500006,"end":3296.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3298.7559687500006,"end":3299.3972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3298.9922187500006,"end":3302.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3302.02971875,"end":3304.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3303.6834687500004,"end":3316.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3306.90659375,"end":3307.2947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3310.8553437500004,"end":3311.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3311.3447187500005,"end":3311.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3316.5253437500005,"end":3316.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3316.6434687500005,"end":3358.8815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3333.4509687500004,"end":3333.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3358.8815937500003,"end":3359.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3359.10096875,"end":3364.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3364.88909375,"end":3365.1759687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3365.00721875,"end":3366.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3366.52596875,"end":3367.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3366.9815937500007,"end":3402.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3370.13721875,"end":3370.4747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3371.9259687500007,"end":3372.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3398.1834687500004,"end":3398.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3402.5878437500005,"end":3403.0097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3402.8915937500005,"end":3406.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3406.1990937500004,"end":3406.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3406.3847187500005,"end":3410.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3410.0465937500003,"end":3410.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3410.50221875,"end":3411.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3411.88596875,"end":3411.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3411.95346875,"end":3419.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3419.0240937500002,"end":3458.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3458.96721875,"end":3475.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3470.18909375,"end":3470.6447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3471.7078437500004,"end":3473.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3474.27284375,"end":3493.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3476.4834687500006,"end":3476.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3493.5272187500004,"end":3493.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3493.74659375,"end":3531.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3497.3409687500007,"end":3497.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3509.05221875,"end":3509.4572187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3531.6309687500006,"end":3531.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3531.8672187500006,"end":3551.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3538.1447187500007,"end":3538.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3539.5115937500004,"end":3539.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3539.61284375,"end":3539.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3551.05409375,"end":3551.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3551.29034375,"end":3553.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3553.83846875,"end":3559.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3559.5253437500005,"end":3559.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3559.60971875,"end":3561.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3561.31409375,"end":3561.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3561.53346875,"end":3561.5840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3561.5840937500006,"end":3561.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3561.9215937500003,"end":3566.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3566.1403437500003,"end":3579.1847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3570.94971875,"end":3571.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3571.2872187500006,"end":3571.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3572.4684687500003,"end":3572.8397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3576.41721875,"end":3576.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3579.1847187500007,"end":3579.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3579.31971875,"end":3583.2853437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3583.5722187500005,"end":3588.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3588.6853437500004,"end":3588.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3588.73596875,"end":3588.8203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3588.8203437500006,"end":3591.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3588.83721875,"end":3589.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3591.0478437500005,"end":3591.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3591.5709687500002,"end":3604.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3604.09221875,"end":3604.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3604.46346875,"end":3625.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3614.14971875,"end":3614.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3614.1834687500004,"end":3614.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3621.08534375,"end":3621.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3621.1022187500002,"end":3621.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3621.27096875,"end":3621.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3626.28284375,"end":3629.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3630.0965937500005,"end":3669.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3638.7703437500004,"end":3639.7490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3669.83721875,"end":3670.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3670.07346875,"end":3706.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3670.09034375,"end":3670.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3677.68409375,"end":3678.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3690.7959687500006,"end":3691.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3691.9772187500002,"end":3692.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3692.02784375,"end":3693.4453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3706.30409375,"end":3713.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3709.8309687500005,"end":3710.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3711.3834687500002,"end":3712.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3712.6490937500002,"end":3712.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3713.4422187500004,"end":3713.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3713.4928437500002,"end":3714.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3713.5772187500006,"end":3713.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3717.4247187500005,"end":3722.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3729.7265937500006,"end":3732.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3732.71346875,"end":3733.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3737.05034375,"end":3737.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3737.65784375,"end":3737.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3737.87721875,"end":3743.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3743.2940937500007,"end":3750.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3750.5840937500006,"end":3757.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3757.8572187500004,"end":3762.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3763.0040937500007,"end":3767.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3767.47596875,"end":3779.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3777.9384687500005,"end":3777.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3777.97221875,"end":3778.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3778.3097187500007,"end":3778.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3778.8328437500004,"end":3779.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3779.89596875,"end":3787.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3787.96221875,"end":3798.4753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3798.6609687500004,"end":3808.9884687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3809.05596875,"end":3815.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3815.38409375,"end":3827.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3827.3990937500002,"end":3850.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3833.2040937500005,"end":3833.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3842.68784375,"end":3842.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3851.5134687500004,"end":3852.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3851.54721875,"end":3851.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3851.96909375,"end":3851.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3852.6103437500005,"end":3869.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3852.7115937500002,"end":3853.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3871.0040937500007,"end":3894.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3875.5265937500008,"end":3877.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3892.04721875,"end":3893.5997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3894.57846875,"end":3897.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3894.7472187500007,"end":3894.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3896.5528437500006,"end":3905.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3897.7509687500005,"end":3898.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3903.55596875,"end":3903.6065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3903.7247187500006,"end":3903.9103437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3905.5134687500004,"end":3936.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3927.19784375,"end":3927.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3937.5084687500002,"end":3938.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3938.9597187500003,"end":3979.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3948.6290937500007,"end":3949.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3979.0378437500003,"end":3984.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3979.3078437500008,"end":3979.8984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3984.9609687500006,"end":3985.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3985.09596875,"end":4000.5197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4000.53659375,"end":4000.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4000.77284375,"end":4016.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4017.95159375,"end":4025.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4026.20346875,"end":4030.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4030.5909687500007,"end":4037.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4037.83034375,"end":4038.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4038.67409375,"end":4044.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4044.9684687500003,"end":4072.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4071.1415937500005,"end":4072.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4072.84596875,"end":4086.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4086.1940937500003,"end":4121.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4088.16846875,"end":4088.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4091.9315937500005,"end":4092.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4092.1678437500004,"end":4092.1847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4098.58034375,"end":4098.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4103.052218750001,"end":4103.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4104.99284375,"end":4105.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4121.64846875,"end":4135.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4127.77409375,"end":4128.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4128.06096875,"end":4128.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4135.907843749999,"end":4156.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4157.4403437500005,"end":4185.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4166.519093749999,"end":4166.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4166.7215937500005,"end":4166.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4174.60221875,"end":4174.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4185.8240937499995,"end":4214.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4200.1678437499995,"end":4200.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4204.8084687499995,"end":4204.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4214.562218749999,"end":4216.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4216.99221875,"end":4220.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4220.046593749999,"end":4220.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4220.31659375,"end":4234.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4234.69409375,"end":4235.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4235.63909375,"end":4272.831593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4273.08471875,"end":4288.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4288.47471875,"end":4295.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4295.764718750001,"end":4314.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4313.854718750001,"end":4348.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4327.05096875,"end":4327.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4348.70159375,"end":4366.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4366.31909375,"end":4366.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4367.905343750001,"end":4372.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4372.46159375,"end":4374.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4375.04346875,"end":4378.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4378.80659375,"end":4386.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4387.0584687499995,"end":4391.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4390.5009687500005,"end":4391.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4391.952218750001,"end":4391.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4391.96909375,"end":4409.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4409.18159375,"end":4437.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4437.00846875,"end":4441.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4438.18971875,"end":4439.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4439.30346875,"end":4446.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4446.44159375,"end":4453.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4453.90034375,"end":4453.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4453.950968749999,"end":4454.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4454.153468750001,"end":4466.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4466.92784375,"end":4467.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4467.24846875,"end":4479.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4467.265343749999,"end":4467.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4469.982218749999,"end":4470.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4472.04096875,"end":4472.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4475.196593750001,"end":4475.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4480.00596875,"end":4486.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4486.28346875,"end":4486.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4486.38471875,"end":4490.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4490.704718749999,"end":4507.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4504.94721875,"end":4508.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4508.92971875,"end":4508.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4508.9803437499995,"end":4509.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4509.01409375,"end":4509.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4509.0478437500005,"end":4509.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4509.11534375,"end":4510.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4509.95909375,"end":4510.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4510.026593750001,"end":4510.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4510.6678437499995,"end":4510.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4510.70159375,"end":4511.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4513.874093750001,"end":4517.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4520.87721875,"end":4521.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4524.11721875,"end":4527.644093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4529.1122187500005,"end":4530.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4532.74034375,"end":4533.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4534.32659375,"end":4544.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4545.16034375,"end":4548.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4549.1259687500005,"end":4556.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4551.15096875,"end":4551.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4556.17971875,"end":4556.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4556.517218749999,"end":4579.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4558.6434687500005,"end":4558.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4579.534718749999,"end":4593.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4592.44409375,"end":4594.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4595.07659375,"end":4595.987843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4596.39284375,"end":4599.548468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4598.2997187500005,"end":4598.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4599.00846875,"end":4653.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4654.122218750001,"end":4682.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4679.704718749999,"end":4679.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4679.78909375,"end":4679.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4679.87346875,"end":4679.890343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4683.48471875,"end":4685.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4685.45909375,"end":4696.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4694.11596875,"end":4698.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4697.17034375,"end":4698.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4698.95909375,"end":4702.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4700.984093749999,"end":4701.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4702.09784375,"end":4719.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4720.069718750001,"end":4726.718468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4726.954718749999,"end":4749.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4749.972218750001,"end":4751.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4752.30096875,"end":4765.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4762.155968749999,"end":4762.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4765.024718750001,"end":4815.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4808.984093749999,"end":4809.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4809.321593750001,"end":4813.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4813.08471875,"end":4813.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4815.5653437500005,"end":4829.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4829.13284375,"end":4838.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4831.545968750001,"end":4832.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4832.40659375,"end":4834.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4835.747843749999,"end":4866.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4866.76409375,"end":4899.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4900.14284375,"end":4932.829718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4923.05909375,"end":4923.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4932.930968750001,"end":4935.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4935.225968750001,"end":4939.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4938.76971875,"end":4939.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4939.2928437499995,"end":4945.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4940.92971875,"end":4941.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4945.97534375,"end":4951.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4947.831593750001,"end":4959.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4952.40471875,"end":4954.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4954.024718750001,"end":4954.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4959.323468750001,"end":4959.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4959.76221875,"end":4963.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4963.10346875,"end":4963.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4963.4072187500005,"end":4973.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4968.62159375,"end":4968.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4968.638468749999,"end":4968.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4968.655343750001,"end":4968.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4968.840968750001,"end":4968.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4973.39721875,"end":4973.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4973.41409375,"end":4975.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4973.4647187499995,"end":4974.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4974.67971875,"end":4979.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4978.915343750001,"end":4984.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4982.155343750001,"end":4982.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4983.62346875,"end":4989.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4984.062218749999,"end":4984.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4988.12909375,"end":4989.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4989.76596875,"end":5001.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4993.259093750001,"end":4993.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4994.811593750001,"end":4994.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4998.15284375,"end":4998.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5002.2197187500005,"end":5008.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5008.952843749999,"end":5017.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5017.05284375,"end":5017.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5017.50846875,"end":5017.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5017.6434687500005,"end":5020.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5017.69409375,"end":5024.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5020.815968750001,"end":5020.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5024.44409375,"end":5027.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5025.642218749999,"end":5045.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5030.55284375,"end":5030.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5039.36159375,"end":5039.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5040.323468750001,"end":5040.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5040.72846875,"end":5040.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5045.58846875,"end":5045.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5045.841593749999,"end":5047.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5047.69784375,"end":5048.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5048.389718750001,"end":5070.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5049.48659375,"end":5049.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5049.67221875,"end":5049.689093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5049.7059687500005,"end":5049.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5062.64909375,"end":5062.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5070.25971875,"end":5073.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5074.14096875,"end":5082.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5077.6678437499995,"end":5077.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5077.7353437500005,"end":5078.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5078.03909375,"end":5078.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5082.00471875,"end":5091.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5085.2615937499995,"end":5085.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5085.58221875,"end":5085.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5089.5478437500005,"end":5089.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5089.581593750001,"end":5090.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5091.876593749999,"end":5092.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5092.112843750001,"end":5093.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5092.14659375,"end":5092.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5093.54721875,"end":5093.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5093.749718749999,"end":5117.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5105.325968749999,"end":5105.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5111.55284375,"end":5111.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5111.569718750001,"end":5111.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5117.577218750001,"end":5123.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5123.702843749999,"end":5124.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5124.19221875,"end":5128.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5128.66409375,"end":5128.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5128.93409375,"end":5152.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5137.28721875,"end":5137.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5137.405343750001,"end":5137.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5151.61409375,"end":5152.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5152.204718749999,"end":5152.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5152.305968750001,"end":5162.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5162.802218750001,"end":5163.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5162.9540937500005,"end":5166.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5165.856593750001,"end":5166.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5166.61596875,"end":5195.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5167.965968750001,"end":5168.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5196.01221875,"end":5208.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5208.837218750001,"end":5209.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5209.00596875,"end":5219.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5211.06471875,"end":5213.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5213.03909375,"end":5214.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5215.722218750001,"end":5217.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5219.63721875,"end":5226.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5227.298468749999,"end":5229.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5229.694718750001,"end":5230.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5230.57221875,"end":5249.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5242.5028437500005,"end":5244.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5244.089093750001,"end":5244.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5245.27034375,"end":5245.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5245.28721875,"end":5250.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5250.045968750001,"end":5255.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5250.923468749999,"end":5250.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5255.614718750001,"end":5258.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5258.92221875,"end":5264.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5264.760968750001,"end":5270.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5265.4697187500005,"end":5268.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5270.667218750001,"end":5280.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5280.6572187500005,"end":5282.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5281.09596875,"end":5309.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5284.31909375,"end":5284.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5284.960343750001,"end":5284.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5306.847218750001,"end":5370.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5313.9178437499995,"end":5314.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5352.57846875,"end":5352.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5369.2509687500005,"end":5369.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5370.29721875,"end":5370.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5370.61784375,"end":5386.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5384.0165937500005,"end":5394.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5388.690968750001,"end":5389.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5393.331593750001,"end":5396.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5396.26784375,"end":5396.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5396.30159375,"end":5396.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5396.942843750001,"end":5398.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5397.01034375,"end":5397.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5398.1747187500005,"end":5418.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5401.262843750001,"end":5402.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5402.30909375,"end":5402.376593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5406.89909375,"end":5407.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5407.253468750001,"end":5407.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5418.25596875,"end":5418.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5418.323468750001,"end":5418.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5418.374093750001,"end":5418.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5418.39096875,"end":5425.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5418.407843749999,"end":5418.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5421.749093750001,"end":5421.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5423.95971875,"end":5423.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5423.97659375,"end":5424.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5424.0272187499995,"end":5425.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5425.107218749999,"end":5425.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5425.27596875,"end":5425.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5425.32659375,"end":5425.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5425.74846875,"end":5425.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5428.9715937500005,"end":5430.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5431.030343750001,"end":5433.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5439.974093750001,"end":5442.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5442.370343750001,"end":5443.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5447.07846875,"end":5447.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5448.310343749999,"end":5493.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5467.9022187499995,"end":5468.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5493.7040937500005,"end":5500.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5499.694718750001,"end":5499.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5501.095343749999,"end":5501.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5502.02346875,"end":5502.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5502.90096875,"end":5551.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5505.29721875,"end":5505.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5509.3134687500005,"end":5509.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5526.036593750001,"end":5526.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5537.427218750001,"end":5537.798468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5550.319718750001,"end":5556.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5552.63159375,"end":5553.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5555.1122187500005,"end":5562.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5562.09846875,"end":5579.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5566.0809687500005,"end":5566.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5579.935343749999,"end":5584.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5582.92221875,"end":5582.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5583.90096875,"end":5586.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5587.05659375,"end":5590.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5590.00971875,"end":5607.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5594.380343750001,"end":5594.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5600.03346875,"end":5602.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5607.47534375,"end":5653.814093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5629.66596875,"end":5629.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5629.817843750001,"end":5629.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5646.3553437499995,"end":5646.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5653.814093749999,"end":5654.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5653.9490937499995,"end":5687.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5664.0740937499995,"end":5664.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5668.03971875,"end":5668.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5668.05659375,"end":5668.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5685.505343750001,"end":5686.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5686.46721875,"end":5728.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5689.774718750001,"end":5690.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5690.939093749999,"end":5691.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5698.33034375,"end":5698.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5700.929093750001,"end":5700.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5700.96284375,"end":5701.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5717.331593750001,"end":5717.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5717.97284375,"end":5718.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5722.765343749999,"end":5722.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5722.7822187500005,"end":5723.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5728.36784375,"end":5768.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5732.78909375,"end":5733.126593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5733.548468749999,"end":5733.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5733.5653437500005,"end":5733.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5733.700343750001,"end":5733.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5745.44534375,"end":5745.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5764.09221875,"end":5764.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5768.192843750001,"end":5775.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5770.302218750001,"end":5772.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5775.21284375,"end":5775.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5775.24659375,"end":5779.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5776.37721875,"end":5777.845343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5779.17846875,"end":5781.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5782.0809687500005,"end":5783.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5782.9247187500005,"end":5783.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5783.97096875,"end":5794.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5785.05096875,"end":5785.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5787.936593750001,"end":5789.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5794.298468749999,"end":5795.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5795.715968750001,"end":5796.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5797.08284375,"end":5797.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5797.18409375,"end":5797.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5797.403468750001,"end":5797.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5797.55534375,"end":5797.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5797.60596875,"end":5797.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5797.639718750001,"end":5797.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5798.16284375,"end":5799.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5799.462218750001,"end":5820.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5821.264718750001,"end":5826.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5823.458468750001,"end":5823.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5823.49221875,"end":5823.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5823.795968750001,"end":5824.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5824.0322187500005,"end":5824.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5824.04909375,"end":5824.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5824.18409375,"end":5824.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5826.462218750001,"end":5828.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5827.13721875,"end":5828.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5828.68971875,"end":5832.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5831.03534375,"end":5836.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5835.30471875,"end":5835.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5836.36784375,"end":5836.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5836.452218750001,"end":5858.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5847.77534375,"end":5848.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5858.187218749999,"end":5885.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5885.69346875,"end":5888.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5888.292218750001,"end":5896.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5889.135968750001,"end":5889.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5897.11784375,"end":5906.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5907.42846875,"end":5917.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5917.874093750001,"end":5924.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5925.180968750001,"end":5948.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5948.53596875,"end":5950.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5951.32034375,"end":5965.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5965.14096875,"end":5979.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5965.731593750001,"end":5965.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5970.456593750001,"end":5970.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5973.71346875,"end":5974.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5979.889718750001,"end":5984.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5980.19346875,"end":5980.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5982.741593750001,"end":5995.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5986.859093749999,"end":5988.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5994.452843749999,"end":5994.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5996.140343749999,"end":6009.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5997.52409375,"end":5998.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6009.75846875,"end":6018.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6011.665343750001,"end":6011.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6017.82471875,"end":6021.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6018.90471875,"end":6019.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6019.967843750001,"end":6031.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6022.212218750001,"end":6024.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6029.40096875,"end":6029.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6031.08846875,"end":6034.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6032.91096875,"end":6033.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6034.682843750001,"end":6035.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6035.03721875,"end":6035.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6035.45909375,"end":6035.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6035.762843750001,"end":6035.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6035.77971875,"end":6035.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6038.479718750001,"end":6042.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6050.78159375,"end":6052.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6052.6884687500005,"end":6053.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6054.7303437499995,"end":6092.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6064.956593750001,"end":6065.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6068.16284375,"end":6068.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6083.82284375,"end":6083.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6092.850968750001,"end":6096.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6097.356593750001,"end":6102.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6102.99284375,"end":6122.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6107.16096875,"end":6108.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6122.97284375,"end":6128.845343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6123.95159375,"end":6125.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6128.845343750001,"end":6141.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6142.5478437500005,"end":6154.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6142.64909375,"end":6142.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6143.999093750001,"end":6144.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6147.171593749999,"end":6147.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6147.23909375,"end":6148.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6151.13721875,"end":6153.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6154.56284375,"end":6156.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6156.739718750001,"end":6165.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6159.2372187500005,"end":6159.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6165.24471875,"end":6180.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6166.257218750001,"end":6166.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6178.42409375,"end":6218.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6186.7772187499995,"end":6187.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6206.68971875,"end":6206.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6218.8397187499995,"end":6219.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6219.02534375,"end":6224.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6224.7459687499995,"end":6225.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6225.420968750001,"end":6253.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6231.310343749999,"end":6231.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6246.71721875,"end":6248.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6251.796593749999,"end":6257.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6255.559718750001,"end":6268.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6267.72659375,"end":6279.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6268.84034375,"end":6268.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6268.9247187500005,"end":6270.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6273.227843750001,"end":6273.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6277.395968750001,"end":6277.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6278.661593750001,"end":6282.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6280.247843749999,"end":6284.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6283.217843750001,"end":6284.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6285.1415937500005,"end":6286.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6286.71096875,"end":6287.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6288.263468749999,"end":6289.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6289.3603437500005,"end":6300.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6294.270968750001,"end":6294.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6296.616593750001,"end":6296.852843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6300.784718750001,"end":6301.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6301.679093750001,"end":6302.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6302.97846875,"end":6302.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6302.995343750001,"end":6303.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6303.079718750001,"end":6303.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6303.19784375,"end":6303.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6303.2147187499995,"end":6303.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6303.653468750001,"end":6308.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6304.075343750001,"end":6305.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6309.94784375,"end":6319.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6319.83659375,"end":6319.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6319.85346875,"end":6332.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6332.762843750001,"end":6334.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6333.01596875,"end":6334.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6334.484093749999,"end":6343.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6342.01034375,"end":6363.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6345.52034375,"end":6349.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6350.36346875,"end":6350.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6350.41409375,"end":6350.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6350.4647187499995,"end":6351.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6364.08284375,"end":6371.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6370.7822187500005,"end":6371.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6371.187218749999,"end":6383.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6383.74221875,"end":6391.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6391.302218750001,"end":6391.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6391.47096875,"end":6394.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6395.234093749999,"end":6426.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6398.77784375,"end":6399.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6428.292218750001,"end":6429.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6429.4228437500005,"end":6437.657843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6435.24471875,"end":6449.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6438.14721875,"end":6438.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6442.04534375,"end":6442.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6449.2509687500005,"end":6467.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6453.8240937499995,"end":6454.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6466.46346875,"end":6466.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6466.497218750001,"end":6467.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6467.44221875,"end":6467.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6467.6278437500005,"end":6489.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6467.64471875,"end":6467.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6489.919718749999,"end":6491.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6492.687218749999,"end":6518.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6502.71096875,"end":6502.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6512.73471875,"end":6514.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6516.58221875,"end":6535.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6536.8153437500005,"end":6538.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6538.60409375,"end":6539.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6540.122843749999,"end":6541.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6542.2997187500005,"end":6554.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6555.310343749999,"end":6556.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6556.74471875,"end":6568.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6557.470343750001,"end":6558.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6568.92846875,"end":6572.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6573.653468750001,"end":6576.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6576.85971875,"end":6587.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6585.887843750001,"end":6630.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6630.876593750001,"end":6640.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6640.64721875,"end":6654.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6646.99221875,"end":6647.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6654.56909375,"end":6660.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6658.51784375,"end":6669.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6661.0322187500005,"end":6661.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6663.71534375,"end":6664.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6664.69409375,"end":6664.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6664.74471875,"end":6664.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6669.030968749999,"end":6669.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6670.262843750001,"end":6691.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6689.905343750001,"end":6702.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6700.60409375,"end":6701.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6701.937218749999,"end":6707.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6704.4178437499995,"end":6704.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6706.45971875,"end":6714.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6708.839093750001,"end":6710.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6712.78784375,"end":6714.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6714.25596875,"end":6714.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6714.374093750001,"end":6714.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6714.458468750001,"end":6714.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6714.509093750001,"end":6714.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6714.9647187499995,"end":6715.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6719.36909375,"end":6724.718468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6730.489718750001,"end":6732.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6732.71721875,"end":6733.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6736.733468750001,"end":6736.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6736.75034375,"end":6737.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6737.03721875,"end":6737.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6737.290343750001,"end":6737.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6737.86409375,"end":6738.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6738.80909375,"end":6744.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6744.34409375,"end":6744.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6744.9178437499995,"end":6745.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6745.08659375,"end":6753.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6753.270968750001,"end":6767.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6757.962218750001,"end":6759.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6766.298468750001,"end":6767.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6767.479718750001,"end":6780.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6775.124093750001,"end":6775.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6779.8153437500005,"end":6780.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6780.186593750001,"end":6780.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6780.47346875,"end":6787.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6787.577843749999,"end":6787.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6787.8309687500005,"end":6789.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6789.72096875,"end":6792.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6793.09596875,"end":6796.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6795.509093750001,"end":6795.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6795.52596875,"end":6797.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6797.02784375,"end":6809.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6797.061593750001,"end":6797.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6797.16284375,"end":6797.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6809.700968749999,"end":6810.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6809.717843750001,"end":6809.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6809.81909375,"end":6809.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6809.86971875,"end":6811.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6811.28721875,"end":6812.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6813.042218750001,"end":6822.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6822.81284375,"end":6829.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6829.3603437500005,"end":6846.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6846.032843750001,"end":6846.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6847.349093750001,"end":6856.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6856.3603437500005,"end":6856.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6856.495343750001,"end":6857.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6856.64721875,"end":6856.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6858.317843750001,"end":6859.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6860.07284375,"end":6861.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6860.747843749999,"end":6860.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6860.86596875,"end":6861.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6862.38471875,"end":6864.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6864.84846875,"end":6867.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6867.599093750001,"end":6907.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6907.204718750001,"end":6909.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6909.76971875,"end":6915.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6915.47346875,"end":6924.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6915.557843750001,"end":6915.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6918.44346875,"end":6918.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6918.47721875,"end":6918.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6924.01221875,"end":6924.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6924.38346875,"end":6929.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6929.057843750001,"end":6929.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6929.3447187500005,"end":6939.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6938.96346875,"end":6954.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6953.560343749999,"end":6963.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6961.491593750001,"end":6967.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6967.41471875,"end":6988.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6982.56846875,"end":6982.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6988.18784375,"end":6995.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6994.718468750001,"end":6996.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6996.557843750001,"end":7000.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6999.47721875,"end":6999.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7000.13534375,"end":7000.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7000.92846875,"end":7002.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7003.13909375,"end":7005.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7006.04159375,"end":7009.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7009.484093750001,"end":7014.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7014.02346875,"end":7014.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7015.74471875,"end":7018.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7018.7822187500005,"end":7022.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7022.055968750001,"end":7022.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7022.106593750001,"end":7022.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7022.27534375,"end":7022.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7022.292218750001,"end":7022.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7022.35971875,"end":7022.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7022.41034375,"end":7022.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7022.54534375,"end":7022.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7022.8153437500005,"end":7035.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7035.35346875,"end":7045.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7036.33221875,"end":7036.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7046.40659375,"end":7068.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7065.5428437499995,"end":7065.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7068.0740937499995,"end":7068.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7068.20909375,"end":7072.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7072.967843750001,"end":7073.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7074.182843750001,"end":7088.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7088.982218749999,"end":7096.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7097.385968750001,"end":7107.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7107.89909375,"end":7130.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7130.714093750001,"end":7138.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7138.4090937500005,"end":7138.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7138.56096875,"end":7141.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7142.138468749999,"end":7148.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7149.1415937500005,"end":7154.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7154.50784375,"end":7156.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7156.27971875,"end":7157.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7157.714093750001,"end":7158.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7159.04721875,"end":7162.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7162.911593750001,"end":7165.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7166.235968750001,"end":7169.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7169.239718750001,"end":7169.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7169.340968750001,"end":7169.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7169.610968750001,"end":7172.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7172.513468749999,"end":7176.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7177.52534375,"end":7185.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7182.75659375,"end":7182.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7182.95909375,"end":7183.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7186.013468749999,"end":7190.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7190.53596875,"end":7196.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7196.982218749999,"end":7197.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7199.1590937500005,"end":7199.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7199.17596875,"end":7199.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7199.513468749999,"end":7200.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7200.407843750001,"end":7200.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7201.33596875,"end":7246.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7246.37534375,"end":7265.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7265.1572187500005,"end":7265.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7265.46096875,"end":7278.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7278.8934687500005,"end":7306.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7306.56846875,"end":7307.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7308.272843750001,"end":7315.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7316.2040937500005,"end":7317.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7317.267218750001,"end":7321.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7321.300343750001,"end":7332.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7333.23096875,"end":7345.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7346.325968749999,"end":7349.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7349.194718750001,"end":7361.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7360.399718750001,"end":7360.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7361.63159375,"end":7361.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7361.64846875,"end":7373.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7373.46096875,"end":7390.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7376.63346875,"end":7376.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7376.65034375,"end":7376.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7378.08471875,"end":7378.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7390.47096875,"end":7392.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7392.19221875,"end":7402.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7392.58034375,"end":7393.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7402.6884687500005,"end":7403.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7403.903468750001,"end":7404.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7404.038468750001,"end":7404.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7404.10596875,"end":7404.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7404.139718750001,"end":7404.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7404.15659375,"end":7404.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7404.966593749999,"end":7419.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7405.47284375,"end":7405.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7411.61534375,"end":7411.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7411.632218750001,"end":7412.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7412.96534375,"end":7413.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7416.272843750001,"end":7416.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7418.34846875,"end":7418.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7419.02346875,"end":7429.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7427.292218750001,"end":7427.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7427.849093750001,"end":7427.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7429.13159375,"end":7430.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7429.401593750001,"end":7430.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7430.700968749999,"end":7431.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7433.11409375,"end":7436.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7437.923468750001,"end":7440.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7441.534718750001,"end":7445.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7455.52409375,"end":7457.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7457.616593750001,"end":7459.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7460.9072187500005,"end":7461.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7460.97471875,"end":7465.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7463.995343750001,"end":7467.454718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7469.901593750001,"end":7470.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7473.52971875,"end":7474.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7475.72346875,"end":7477.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7478.389718750001,"end":7478.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7479.90846875,"end":7481.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7481.25846875,"end":7481.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7482.3553437499995,"end":7485.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7485.66284375,"end":7486.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7486.0340937500005,"end":7486.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7486.05096875,"end":7487.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7488.1434687500005,"end":7489.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7490.16846875,"end":7491.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7492.42971875,"end":7493.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7495.65284375,"end":7496.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7496.901593750001,"end":7498.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7498.60596875,"end":7501.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7501.71096875,"end":7505.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7505.946593750001,"end":7507.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7509.11909375,"end":7510.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7510.485968750001,"end":7510.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7511.245343750001,"end":7515.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7516.1728437500005,"end":7520.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7520.69534375,"end":7527.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7527.276593750001,"end":7527.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7527.58034375,"end":7527.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7529.622218750001,"end":7531.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7532.08596875,"end":7532.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7534.634093750001,"end":7534.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7535.78159375,"end":7536.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7538.07659375,"end":7541.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7542.6834687499995,"end":7545.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7545.9403437500005,"end":7547.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7548.083468750001,"end":7551.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7551.4247187500005,"end":7552.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7553.44971875,"end":7554.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7555.89659375,"end":7558.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7558.88346875,"end":7559.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7559.69346875,"end":7561.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7562.342843750001,"end":7566.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7567.860968750001,"end":7570.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7570.64534375,"end":7572.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7572.501593750001,"end":7573.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7574.25659375,"end":7576.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7576.484093750001,"end":7577.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7579.04909375,"end":7587.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7589.03909375,"end":7598.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7598.21909375,"end":7604.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7605.05346875,"end":7606.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7607.60159375,"end":7608.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7608.95159375,"end":7610.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7611.314093750001,"end":7614.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7614.99284375,"end":7619.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7620.15659375,"end":7623.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7623.5653437500005,"end":7627.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7627.0584687499995,"end":7627.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7627.14284375,"end":7627.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7627.17659375,"end":7627.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7627.27784375,"end":7627.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7627.767218750001,"end":7630.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7630.97346875,"end":7632.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7632.981593750001,"end":7638.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7638.972218750001,"end":7644.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7645.80659375,"end":7650.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7653.417218750001,"end":7657.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7657.9228437500005,"end":7664.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7664.385968750001,"end":7664.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7664.63909375,"end":7669.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7670.62971875,"end":7672.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7673.144093750001,"end":7673.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7675.18596875,"end":7685.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7685.749718750001,"end":7691.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7692.5165937500005,"end":7693.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7693.69784375,"end":7694.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7694.06909375,"end":7695.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7696.3134687500005,"end":7696.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7697.62971875,"end":7698.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7698.456593750001,"end":7698.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7698.7772187499995,"end":7699.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7700.059718750001,"end":7703.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7704.48096875,"end":7705.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7707.231593750001,"end":7709.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7709.796593750001,"end":7711.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7712.1590937500005,"end":7717.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7719.0272187499995,"end":7726.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7726.57034375,"end":7736.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7732.79721875,"end":7732.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7734.43409375,"end":7735.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7736.526593750001,"end":7739.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7740.272843750001,"end":7741.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7741.538468750001,"end":7741.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7741.92659375,"end":7746.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7743.749093750001,"end":7744.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7747.073468750001,"end":7748.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7748.575343750001,"end":7752.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7752.72659375,"end":7754.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7753.89096875,"end":7754.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7754.78534375,"end":7755.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7755.932843750001,"end":7756.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7756.50659375,"end":7762.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7763.22284375,"end":7765.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7765.78784375,"end":7768.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7768.724093750001,"end":7769.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7769.517218750001,"end":7775.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7776.452843750001,"end":7779.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7779.96284375,"end":7779.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7779.979718750001,"end":7781.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7780.0809687500005,"end":7780.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7780.215968750001,"end":7780.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7781.8865937499995,"end":7782.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7783.70909375,"end":7786.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7786.341593749999,"end":7787.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7786.93221875,"end":7796.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7796.60159375,"end":7801.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7802.30534375,"end":7803.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7803.77346875,"end":7803.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7803.975968750001,"end":7804.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7807.04721875,"end":7807.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7807.064093750001,"end":7807.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7807.0809687500005,"end":7807.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7807.1990937499995,"end":7807.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7807.536593750001,"end":7808.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7808.0428437499995,"end":7808.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7808.21159375,"end":7808.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7808.97096875,"end":7811.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7811.519093750001,"end":7812.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7812.9872187500005,"end":7816.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7816.69971875,"end":7828.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7828.394093750001,"end":7876.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7876.403468750001,"end":7876.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7876.825343750001,"end":7898.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7898.03721875,"end":7901.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7902.323468750001,"end":7908.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7908.651593750001,"end":7910.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7911.25034375,"end":7930.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7931.095343750001,"end":7931.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7931.77034375,"end":7933.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7933.964093750001,"end":7934.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7935.53346875,"end":7936.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7938.182843750001,"end":7942.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7942.97534375,"end":7942.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7943.515343750001,"end":7946.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7948.24034375,"end":7949.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7950.33284375,"end":7957.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7960.019093750001,"end":7961.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7962.21284375,"end":7968.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7968.86159375,"end":7971.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7971.966593749999,"end":7971.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7972.118468750001,"end":7972.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7973.4178437499995,"end":7982.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7982.46284375,"end":7982.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7982.59784375,"end":7985.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7985.483468750001,"end":7985.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7985.77034375,"end":7986.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7987.356593750001,"end":7992.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7992.840968750001,"end":7993.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7994.106593750001,"end":7996.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7995.47346875,"end":7995.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7997.0428437499995,"end":8000.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8001.80159375,"end":8015.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8016.8709687499995,"end":8032.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8019.35159375,"end":8021.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8024.009093750001,"end":8024.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8024.02596875,"end":8024.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8032.64909375,"end":8035.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8035.88909375,"end":8036.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8037.357218750001,"end":8038.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8039.07846875,"end":8039.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8041.154093750001,"end":8042.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8042.40284375,"end":8042.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8043.077843750001,"end":8044.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8044.56284375,"end":8046.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8047.17846875,"end":8053.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8054.87346875,"end":8055.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8057.72534375,"end":8060.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8060.847218750001,"end":8063.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8064.47534375,"end":8071.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8072.08596875,"end":8076.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8077.215968750001,"end":8080.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8081.16471875,"end":8081.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8082.19409375,"end":8082.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8083.1728437500005,"end":8083.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8085.99096875,"end":8117.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8088.30284375,"end":8089.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8089.41659375,"end":8089.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8115.741593750001,"end":8116.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8116.7372187500005,"end":8117.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8117.3447187500005,"end":8117.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8117.83409375,"end":8118.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8117.88471875,"end":8117.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8117.96909375,"end":8120.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8118.9647187499995,"end":8121.310343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8121.310343750001,"end":8121.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8121.327218750001,"end":8129.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8130.38909375,"end":8136.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8136.835343750001,"end":8137.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8138.185343750001,"end":8147.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8147.55096875,"end":8148.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8148.58034375,"end":8148.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8148.81659375,"end":8151.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8148.85034375,"end":8148.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8151.685343750001,"end":8158.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8159.009093750001,"end":8160.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8160.7978437500005,"end":8175.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8164.257218750001,"end":8164.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8175.90096875,"end":8179.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8178.4490937499995,"end":8181.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8179.09034375,"end":8180.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8194.36221875,"end":8195.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8196.25221875,"end":8199.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8201.972843750002,"end":8202.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8202.968468750001,"end":8203.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8204.250968750002,"end":8219.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8205.65159375,"end":8208.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8208.75659375,"end":8211.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8211.70971875,"end":8211.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8230.407218750002,"end":8230.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8230.559093750002,"end":8230.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8230.930343750002,"end":8231.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8244.683468750001,"end":8245.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8246.337218749999,"end":8247.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8249.222843750002,"end":8270.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8270.063468750002,"end":8285.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8280.863468750002,"end":8282.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8282.972843750002,"end":8283.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8285.58846875,"end":8295.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8285.672843750002,"end":8287.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8292.996593750002,"end":8293.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8295.308468750001,"end":8298.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8296.894718750002,"end":8298.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8298.98721875,"end":8299.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8299.746593750002,"end":8302.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8299.76346875,"end":8300.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8302.750343750002,"end":8311.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8303.070968750002,"end":8304.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8304.40409375,"end":8304.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8311.52534375,"end":8311.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8312.149718750003,"end":8312.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8312.80784375,"end":8314.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8315.27159375,"end":8316.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8315.91284375,"end":8318.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8318.76471875,"end":8323.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8320.60409375,"end":8320.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8320.85721875,"end":8320.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8323.641593750002,"end":8324.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8325.49784375,"end":8331.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8332.04534375,"end":8354.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8355.602843750003,"end":8358.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8359.180343750002,"end":8382.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8383.277843750002,"end":8385.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8386.804718750001,"end":8389.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8389.96034375,"end":8392.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8393.554718750001,"end":8395.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8396.76096875,"end":8398.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8398.49909375,"end":8406.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8407.44284375,"end":8410.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8410.851593750001,"end":8417.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8417.770343750002,"end":8425.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8426.32596875,"end":8427.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8428.199093750001,"end":8430.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8430.359093750001,"end":8440.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8440.821593750003,"end":8441.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8441.969093750002,"end":8536.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8467.433468750001,"end":8467.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8467.66971875,"end":8468.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8468.243468750003,"end":8468.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8474.655968750001,"end":8476.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8476.47846875,"end":8477.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8532.925343750001,"end":8555.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8541.784718750001,"end":8542.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8542.67909375,"end":8542.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8555.976593750001,"end":8556.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8556.31409375,"end":8559.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8559.43596875,"end":8567.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8567.24909375,"end":8567.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8567.97471875,"end":8570.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8571.906593750002,"end":8581.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8581.137218750002,"end":8581.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8581.305968750003,"end":8583.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8584.613468750002,"end":8593.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8593.77659375,"end":8593.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8593.81034375,"end":8593.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8593.894718750002,"end":8596.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8596.39221875,"end":8599.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8600.72909375,"end":8614.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8615.00534375,"end":8633.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8633.753468750001,"end":8639.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8639.01846875,"end":8639.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8639.27159375,"end":8639.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8640.402218750001,"end":8648.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8648.87346875,"end":8649.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8648.957843750002,"end":8653.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8654.30721875,"end":8673.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8673.899093750002,"end":8674.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8674.81034375,"end":8722.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8682.285968750002,"end":8682.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8691.80346875,"end":8692.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8722.39784375,"end":8725.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8724.996593750002,"end":8725.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8725.87409375,"end":8735.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8727.274718750003,"end":8727.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8728.43909375,"end":8728.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8729.75534375,"end":8729.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8729.856593750003,"end":8729.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8729.97471875,"end":8730.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8731.999718750001,"end":8732.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8733.56909375,"end":8733.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8734.73346875,"end":8734.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8734.76721875,"end":8734.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8735.77971875,"end":8753.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8735.847218750001,"end":8737.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8753.734718750002,"end":8768.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8768.51721875,"end":8768.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8768.73659375,"end":8786.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8787.585968750001,"end":8795.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8796.293468750002,"end":8831.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8819.95221875,"end":8820.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8831.74784375,"end":8831.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8831.76471875,"end":8832.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8832.64221875,"end":8833.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8833.03034375,"end":8858.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8835.359093750001,"end":8836.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8849.297843750002,"end":8849.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8849.51721875,"end":8849.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8853.28034375,"end":8854.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8858.140343750001,"end":8858.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8858.190968750001,"end":8858.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8858.44409375,"end":8862.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8858.49471875,"end":8858.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8862.730343750001,"end":8863.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8863.253468750001,"end":8877.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8877.73221875,"end":8882.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8883.199718750002,"end":8887.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8888.785343750002,"end":8899.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8896.058468750001,"end":8896.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8899.804718750001,"end":8908.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8908.57971875,"end":8909.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8910.199718750002,"end":8926.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8920.88159375,"end":8921.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8926.129718750002,"end":8949.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8949.24846875,"end":8950.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8950.581593750001,"end":8951.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8951.66159375,"end":8953.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8951.695343750001,"end":8951.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8954.20971875,"end":8957.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8957.85471875,"end":8961.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8961.06096875,"end":8961.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8961.17909375,"end":8972.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8961.26346875,"end":8961.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8972.856593750003,"end":8988.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8986.96409375,"end":8989.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8990.00159375,"end":8991.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8991.58784375,"end":8991.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8991.60471875,"end":8995.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8996.211593750002,"end":8997.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8998.28721875,"end":9001.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9001.39221875,"end":9002.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9026.687843750002,"end":9026.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9027.582218750002,"end":9027.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9027.61596875,"end":9028.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9028.39221875,"end":9031.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9028.40909375,"end":9028.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9028.44284375,"end":9028.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9028.746593750002,"end":9029.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9029.539718750002,"end":9030.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9032.695343750001,"end":9033.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9033.707843750002,"end":9034.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9033.94409375,"end":9033.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9033.977843750003,"end":9034.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9034.399718750003,"end":9034.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9034.433468750001,"end":9035.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9034.754093750002,"end":9034.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9035.46284375,"end":9035.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9035.597843750002,"end":9035.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9035.68221875,"end":9035.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9035.766593750002,"end":9035.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9035.83409375,"end":9035.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9035.93534375,"end":9036.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9036.00284375,"end":9037.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9036.05346875,"end":9036.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9037.133468750002,"end":9037.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9037.184093750002,"end":9037.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9037.62284375,"end":9037.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9037.63971875,"end":9037.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9037.926593750002,"end":9038.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9038.26409375,"end":9038.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9038.58471875,"end":9038.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9038.80409375,"end":9038.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9038.972843750002,"end":9039.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9039.563468750002,"end":9040.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9039.597218750001,"end":9041.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9040.035968750002,"end":9041.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9041.031593750002,"end":9043.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9041.723468750002,"end":9041.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9043.410968750002,"end":9049.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9043.63034375,"end":9043.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9043.86659375,"end":9043.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9045.11534375,"end":9045.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9045.621593750002,"end":9046.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9046.75221875,"end":9047.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9047.832218750002,"end":9047.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9049.43534375,"end":9049.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9049.75596875,"end":9051.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9050.02596875,"end":9052.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9052.30409375,"end":9052.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9052.472843750002,"end":9054.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9052.70909375,"end":9053.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9053.02971875,"end":9053.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9053.33346875,"end":9053.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9054.362843750001,"end":9054.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9054.46409375,"end":9054.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9054.480968750002,"end":9054.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9055.172843750002,"end":9061.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9057.906593750002,"end":9057.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9057.92346875,"end":9058.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9058.024718750003,"end":9058.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9058.075343750003,"end":9059.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9059.03721875,"end":9060.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9060.03284375,"end":9060.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9060.92721875,"end":9060.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9060.977843750003,"end":9061.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9061.028468750003,"end":9062.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9061.062218750001,"end":9061.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9061.112843750001,"end":9061.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9062.766593750002,"end":9062.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9062.800343750001,"end":9064.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9063.762218750002,"end":9064.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9064.082843750002,"end":9064.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9064.72409375,"end":9064.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9064.79159375,"end":9066.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9065.027843750002,"end":9065.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9065.43284375,"end":9065.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9065.51721875,"end":9065.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9065.618468750003,"end":9065.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9065.719718750002,"end":9066.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9066.023468750001,"end":9066.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9066.95159375,"end":9072.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9066.968468750001,"end":9070.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9070.02284375,"end":9072.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9072.840968750003,"end":9073.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9073.245968750001,"end":9075.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9074.258468750002,"end":9075.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9075.051593750002,"end":9075.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9076.620968750001,"end":9081.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9077.160968750002,"end":9077.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9078.71346875,"end":9083.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9081.632843750001,"end":9081.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9081.81846875,"end":9082.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9082.965968750003,"end":9082.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9082.999718750001,"end":9083.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9083.10096875,"end":9084.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9083.640968750002,"end":9083.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9084.29909375,"end":9084.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9084.636593750001,"end":9084.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9084.97409375,"end":9085.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9085.21034375,"end":9085.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9085.39596875,"end":9085.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9085.68284375,"end":9089.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9088.754093750002,"end":9089.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9089.61471875,"end":9089.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9089.95221875,"end":9090.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9090.03659375,"end":9090.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9090.10409375,"end":9090.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9090.137843750003,"end":9091.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9090.188468750002,"end":9091.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9091.032218750002,"end":9093.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9091.335968750001,"end":9091.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9092.36534375,"end":9092.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9092.98971875,"end":9093.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9093.00659375,"end":9093.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9093.52971875,"end":9093.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9093.968468750001,"end":9094.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9094.390343750001,"end":9094.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9094.54221875,"end":9095.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9094.559093750002,"end":9094.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9094.812218750001,"end":9094.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9094.96409375,"end":9095.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9095.149718750003,"end":9098.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9095.26784375,"end":9095.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9095.976593750001,"end":9096.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9096.617843750002,"end":9097.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9098.84534375,"end":9098.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9098.86221875,"end":9103.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9103.33409375,"end":9107.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9105.24096875,"end":9108.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9107.805968750003,"end":9109.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9108.14346875,"end":9108.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9108.17721875,"end":9108.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9108.210968750001,"end":9108.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9109.155968750001,"end":9109.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9109.25721875,"end":9109.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9109.34159375,"end":9109.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9109.965968750003,"end":9110.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9110.55659375,"end":9110.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9110.57346875,"end":9110.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9110.60721875,"end":9110.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9110.742218750001,"end":9116.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9111.29909375,"end":9114.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9115.028468750003,"end":9121.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9116.56409375,"end":9116.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9116.766593750002,"end":9116.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9116.918468750002,"end":9117.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9118.015343750001,"end":9118.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9118.62284375,"end":9120.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9120.512843750003,"end":9120.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9120.614093750002,"end":9120.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9121.15409375,"end":9121.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9121.187843750002,"end":9121.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9121.42409375,"end":9121.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9121.440968750001,"end":9122.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9121.457843750002,"end":9121.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9122.26784375,"end":9122.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9122.453468750002,"end":9122.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9123.01034375,"end":9135.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9126.13221875,"end":9126.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9129.203468750002,"end":9130.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9130.23284375,"end":9135.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9135.46409375,"end":9135.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9135.784718750001,"end":9135.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9135.86909375,"end":9136.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9135.91971875,"end":9136.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9136.03784375,"end":9136.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9136.78034375,"end":9137.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9136.965968750003,"end":9140.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9137.320343750001,"end":9137.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9137.370968750001,"end":9137.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9137.67471875,"end":9137.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9137.97846875,"end":9138.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9138.164093750001,"end":9139.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9139.88534375,"end":9139.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9140.762843750003,"end":9141.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9141.960968750001,"end":9143.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9142.028468750003,"end":9143.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9143.699093750001,"end":9144.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9144.660968750002,"end":9144.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9144.711593750002,"end":9165.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9144.72846875,"end":9145.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9166.19346875,"end":9178.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9178.96784375,"end":9179.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9179.102843750003,"end":9179.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9179.96346875,"end":9180.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9180.030968750001,"end":9180.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9180.97596875,"end":9181.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9181.02659375,"end":9181.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9181.80284375,"end":9181.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9181.97159375,"end":9194.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9194.914718750002,"end":9197.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9197.547218750002,"end":9200.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9197.61471875,"end":9197.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9197.969093750002,"end":9200.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9200.06159375,"end":9200.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9201.563468750002,"end":9228.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9201.597218750001,"end":9202.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9202.05284375,"end":9202.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9204.027218750001,"end":9205.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9205.765343750001,"end":9207.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9208.85346875,"end":9209.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9210.051593750002,"end":9210.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9217.577843750001,"end":9217.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9229.22159375,"end":9230.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9230.74034375,"end":9244.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9232.140968750002,"end":9232.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9240.54471875,"end":9240.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9240.848468750002,"end":9240.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9240.96659375,"end":9241.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9244.999718750001,"end":9248.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9248.003468750001,"end":9248.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9248.03721875,"end":9251.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9251.15909375,"end":9252.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9252.03659375,"end":9254.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9252.74534375,"end":9253.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9254.331593750001,"end":9254.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9254.63534375,"end":9256.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9256.035968750002,"end":9256.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9256.74471875,"end":9260.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9259.22534375,"end":9268.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9260.81159375,"end":9261.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9262.54971875,"end":9264.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9267.780968750001,"end":9268.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9268.945343750001,"end":9270.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9270.160343750002,"end":9270.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9270.227843750003,"end":9273.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9272.94471875,"end":9273.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9273.07971875,"end":9273.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9273.113468750002,"end":9280.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9273.164093750001,"end":9273.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9273.265343750001,"end":9273.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9280.032218750002,"end":9283.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9283.54221875,"end":9284.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9284.976593750001,"end":9285.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9285.68534375,"end":9285.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9285.820343750001,"end":9294.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9297.14346875,"end":9297.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9297.632843750001,"end":9297.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9297.801593750002,"end":9298.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9298.03784375,"end":9298.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9298.425968750002,"end":9301.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9298.493468750003,"end":9299.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9299.792843750001,"end":9299.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9301.547843750002,"end":9301.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9301.56471875,"end":9302.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9301.649093750002,"end":9301.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9302.15534375,"end":9304.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9302.66159375,"end":9303.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9304.028468750003,"end":9306.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9304.855343750001,"end":9310.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9306.03659375,"end":9313.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9313.394093750001,"end":9316.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9314.625968750002,"end":9318.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9316.02659375,"end":9316.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9317.59596875,"end":9317.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9317.96721875,"end":9318.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9318.96284375,"end":9332.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9332.95221875,"end":9336.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9335.550968750002,"end":9337.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9336.968468750001,"end":9337.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9337.69409375,"end":9340.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9337.710968750001,"end":9337.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9340.49534375,"end":9359.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9359.46284375,"end":9361.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9361.352843750003,"end":9362.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9362.68596875,"end":9362.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9362.770343750002,"end":9362.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9373.840343750002,"end":9375.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9378.582218750002,"end":9380.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9380.20221875,"end":9380.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9381.13034375,"end":9383.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9382.29471875,"end":9382.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9383.020343750002,"end":9383.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9383.324093750001,"end":9383.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9383.847218750001,"end":9383.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9384.269093750001,"end":9384.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9384.387218750002,"end":9386.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9386.597843750002,"end":9386.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9386.68221875,"end":9387.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9387.559718750003,"end":9394.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9387.711593750002,"end":9387.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9391.57596875,"end":9392.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9392.84159375,"end":9392.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9394.680968750003,"end":9396.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9396.098468750002,"end":9398.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9397.02659375,"end":9397.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9398.207843750002,"end":9402.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9400.77284375,"end":9401.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9401.886593750001,"end":9408.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9405.59909375,"end":9408.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9408.97409375,"end":9409.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9409.93596875,"end":9430.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9409.952843750001,"end":9409.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9409.98659375,"end":9410.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9411.606593750003,"end":9411.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9411.72471875,"end":9411.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9413.699093750001,"end":9414.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9426.321593750003,"end":9426.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9427.266593750002,"end":9427.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9431.23221875,"end":9431.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9431.24909375,"end":9433.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9433.965968750003,"end":9435.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9435.97409375,"end":9436.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9436.969718750002,"end":9437.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9437.10471875,"end":9437.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9437.15534375,"end":9437.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9437.25659375,"end":9437.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9437.30721875,"end":9437.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9437.644718750002,"end":9437.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9437.914718750002,"end":9437.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9437.98221875,"end":9438.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9438.977843750003,"end":9441.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9441.964718750001,"end":9442.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9442.032218750002,"end":9444.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9444.023468750001,"end":9444.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9444.023468750001,"end":9445.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9444.52971875,"end":9444.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9444.74909375,"end":9445.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9445.035968750002,"end":9445.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9445.99784375,"end":9446.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9446.16659375,"end":9449.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9449.59221875,"end":9449.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9449.64284375,"end":9453.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9453.38909375,"end":9455.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9456.359093750001,"end":9458.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9458.805968750003,"end":9459.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9461.45534375,"end":9461.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9462.83909375,"end":9464.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9464.965343750002,"end":9465.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9465.10034375,"end":9465.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9465.57284375,"end":9469.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9469.774718750003,"end":9469.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9469.977218750002,"end":9469.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9469.99409375,"end":9470.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9470.027843750002,"end":9470.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9470.95596875,"end":9472.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9472.829093750002,"end":9477.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9477.97596875,"end":9479.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9479.157218750002,"end":9479.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9479.17409375,"end":9480.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9480.38909375,"end":9486.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9486.51471875,"end":9487.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9487.172843750002,"end":9487.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9487.45971875,"end":9487.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9487.898468750001,"end":9490.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9493.61909375,"end":9500.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9500.774093750002,"end":9512.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9524.14596875,"end":9526.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9528.145343750002,"end":9529.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9531.65534375,"end":9536.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9541.76346875,"end":9544.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9544.88534375,"end":9545.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9549.37409375,"end":9549.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9549.42471875,"end":9549.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9549.52596875,"end":9549.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9549.644093750001,"end":9549.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9549.67784375,"end":9549.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9549.79596875,"end":9549.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9549.84659375,"end":9550.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9550.58909375,"end":9557.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9558.43596875,"end":9558.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9559.347218750001,"end":9560.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9560.950343750003,"end":9564.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9561.304718750001,"end":9561.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9564.12284375,"end":9569.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9568.51034375,"end":9586.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9569.65784375,"end":9570.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9570.805343750002,"end":9571.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9587.22471875,"end":9593.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9594.329093750002,"end":9611.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9612.26721875,"end":9615.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9612.75659375,"end":9613.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9616.266593750002,"end":9620.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9619.101593750001,"end":9627.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9628.63596875,"end":9628.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9628.973468750002,"end":9629.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9629.56409375,"end":9629.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9629.88471875,"end":9629.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9630.05346875,"end":9632.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9632.972843750002,"end":9642.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9643.40159375,"end":9644.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9645.274718750003,"end":9646.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9646.72596875,"end":9649.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9649.425968750002,"end":9651.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9652.19346875,"end":9663.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9664.140968750002,"end":9668.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9668.106593750003,"end":9669.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9668.32596875,"end":9668.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9669.203468750002,"end":9671.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9671.75159375,"end":9672.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9673.844093750002,"end":9675.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9675.734093750001,"end":9698.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9698.66721875,"end":9701.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9701.50221875,"end":9710.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9713.078468750002,"end":9720.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9721.144718750002,"end":9723.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9723.844718750002,"end":9726.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9726.696593750003,"end":9727.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9727.793468750002,"end":9730.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9731.067218750002,"end":9735.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9736.551593750002,"end":9742.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9743.47034375,"end":9747.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9747.992843750002,"end":9749.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9750.11909375,"end":9753.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9753.156593750002,"end":9765.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9766.082843750002,"end":9779.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9780.325343750003,"end":9781.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9782.56971875,"end":9782.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9783.430343750002,"end":9784.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9785.117843750002,"end":9787.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9787.598468750002,"end":9797.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9798.01034375,"end":9808.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9809.18159375,"end":9815.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9816.15096875,"end":9823.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9825.16221875,"end":9833.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9833.59971875,"end":9836.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9837.109718750002,"end":9849.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9849.90096875,"end":9853.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9853.96784375,"end":9854.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9854.457218750002,"end":9857.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9857.86596875,"end":9860.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9861.46034375,"end":9863.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9864.784718750001,"end":9868.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9869.273468750001,"end":9890.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9890.67096875,"end":9890.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9890.97471875,"end":9897.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9897.31971875,"end":9897.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9897.57284375,"end":9906.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9907.02284375,"end":9929.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9929.922218750002,"end":9957.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9957.78284375,"end":9959.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9959.824718750002,"end":9961.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9961.57971875,"end":9962.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9962.81159375,"end":9964.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9965.69721875,"end":9971.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9971.29971875,"end":9973.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9972.04221875,"end":9983.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9981.509093750003,"end":9991.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9984.293468750002,"end":9984.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9984.83346875,"end":9984.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9992.64659375,"end":10012.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10012.54221875,"end":10012.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10012.84596875,"end":10015.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10015.52909375,"end":10018.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10018.465343750002,"end":10020.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10020.28784375,"end":10022.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10023.07221875,"end":10023.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10023.527843750002,"end":10042.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10038.27659375,"end":10038.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10039.54221875,"end":10040.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10041.094718750002,"end":10049.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10043.00159375,"end":10043.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10045.12784375,"end":10045.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10045.49909375,"end":10045.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10046.12346875,"end":10047.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10047.69284375,"end":10048.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10048.097843750002,"end":10048.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10049.54909375,"end":10050.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10050.274718750003,"end":10052.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10052.856593750003,"end":10053.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10054.86471875,"end":10086.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10086.589718750001,"end":10094.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10094.84159375,"end":10117.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10117.63971875,"end":10124.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10124.727218750002,"end":10128.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10129.18221875,"end":10141.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10141.804718750001,"end":10172.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10173.495968750001,"end":10178.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10179.790343750003,"end":10201.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10202.43659375,"end":10219.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10220.003468750001,"end":10220.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10220.56034375,"end":10220.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10220.762843750003,"end":10224.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10225.133468750002,"end":10229.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10230.128468750001,"end":10244.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10245.46784375,"end":10247.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10248.20159375,"end":10263.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10261.735343750002,"end":10266.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10263.69284375,"end":10264.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10265.92034375,"end":10286.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10269.902843750002,"end":10270.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10270.78034375,"end":10271.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10274.72909375,"end":10274.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10274.77971875,"end":10274.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10274.796593750001,"end":10275.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10275.03284375,"end":10275.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10286.54159375,"end":10289.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10289.49471875,"end":10294.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10290.524093750002,"end":10292.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10294.641593750002,"end":10317.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10296.801593750002,"end":10296.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10296.902843750002,"end":10298.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10298.03346875,"end":10300.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10317.27096875,"end":10317.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10317.43971875,"end":10334.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10334.770343750002,"end":10350.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10350.632843750001,"end":10354.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10354.969718750002,"end":10357.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10357.14659375,"end":10357.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10357.180343750002,"end":10359.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10359.03659375,"end":10366.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10366.394093750001,"end":10370.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10370.64659375,"end":10384.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10384.872218750003,"end":10385.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10386.171593750001,"end":10386.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10386.99846875,"end":10388.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10388.98971875,"end":10389.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10389.22596875,"end":10395.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10393.49534375,"end":10393.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10393.680968750003,"end":10393.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10395.38534375,"end":10396.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10396.43159375,"end":10399.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10396.44846875,"end":10396.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10398.27096875,"end":10408.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10405.51034375,"end":10405.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10405.915343750003,"end":10405.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10408.919093750003,"end":10422.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10413.30659375,"end":10413.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10414.454093750002,"end":10415.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10418.082218750002,"end":10418.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10418.09909375,"end":10418.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10418.16659375,"end":10418.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10422.469718750002,"end":10422.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10422.48659375,"end":10422.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10422.520343750002,"end":10422.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10422.55409375,"end":10422.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10422.570968750002,"end":10427.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10422.95909375,"end":10425.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10427.97096875,"end":10442.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10434.113468750002,"end":10434.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10442.95596875,"end":10447.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10447.96784375,"end":10448.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10448.32221875,"end":10448.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10448.33909375,"end":10448.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10448.38971875,"end":10448.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10448.79471875,"end":10448.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10448.81159375,"end":10448.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10448.84534375,"end":10454.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10449.199718750002,"end":10453.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10454.65034375,"end":10454.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10455.257843750001,"end":10469.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10455.696593750003,"end":10456.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10468.67346875,"end":10472.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10472.09909375,"end":10472.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10472.36909375,"end":10477.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10472.706593750001,"end":10474.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10478.157218750002,"end":10479.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10479.372218750003,"end":10483.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10483.45596875,"end":10498.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10498.96409375,"end":10502.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10502.035343750002,"end":10509.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10509.375968750002,"end":10511.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10511.45159375,"end":10511.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10511.940968750001,"end":10516.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10516.56471875,"end":10519.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10519.011593750001,"end":10519.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10519.349093750003,"end":10526.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10526.31846875,"end":10530.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10530.01409375,"end":10530.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10531.195343750001,"end":10531.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10531.212218750003,"end":10534.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10531.33034375,"end":10531.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10534.519718750002,"end":10538.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10540.898468750001,"end":10562.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10563.02159375,"end":10571.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10571.61096875,"end":10574.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10574.699093750001,"end":10575.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10575.62721875,"end":10597.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10597.277843750002,"end":10634.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10607.89221875,"end":10608.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10617.56159375,"end":10619.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10630.31909375,"end":10632.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10633.54221875,"end":10634.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10634.301593750002,"end":10634.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10634.31846875,"end":10634.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10634.976593750001,"end":10639.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10640.190968750001,"end":10702.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10668.034718750001,"end":10668.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10701.953468750002,"end":10702.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10702.375343750002,"end":10703.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10703.30346875,"end":10704.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10704.805343750002,"end":10716.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10716.70221875,"end":10728.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10729.39221875,"end":10733.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10734.285968750002,"end":10734.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10735.56846875,"end":10742.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10743.33096875,"end":10753.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10753.60784375,"end":10765.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10765.774718750003,"end":10770.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10771.309718750003,"end":10772.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10773.030968750001,"end":10775.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10775.71409375,"end":10780.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10781.18159375,"end":10787.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10788.77534375,"end":10805.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10793.04471875,"end":10793.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10793.078468750002,"end":10793.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10793.48346875,"end":10793.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10794.867218750001,"end":10794.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10794.884093750003,"end":10796.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10796.976593750001,"end":10797.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10805.785343750002,"end":10814.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10814.745968750001,"end":10821.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10820.078468750002,"end":10823.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10823.74034375,"end":10827.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10823.84159375,"end":10824.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10825.59659375,"end":10826.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10828.07721875,"end":10830.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10829.528468750003,"end":10832.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10830.878468750001,"end":10835.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10834.35471875,"end":10834.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10834.371593750002,"end":10834.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10834.995968750001,"end":10835.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10835.907218750002,"end":10844.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10835.97471875,"end":10836.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10836.902843750002,"end":10837.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10837.054718750001,"end":10837.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10837.13909375,"end":10837.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10844.46284375,"end":10863.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10855.00971875,"end":10855.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10855.02659375,"end":10855.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10859.684093750002,"end":10860.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10862.215343750002,"end":10865.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10863.83534375,"end":10868.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10867.058468750001,"end":10872.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10873.335968750001,"end":10881.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10881.48659375,"end":10881.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10881.85784375,"end":10882.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10882.583468750003,"end":10909.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10906.191593750002,"end":10906.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10906.208468750003,"end":10906.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10909.887218750002,"end":10909.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10909.92096875,"end":10910.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10910.190968750001,"end":10911.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10911.38909375,"end":10911.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10911.625343750002,"end":10913.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10913.61659375,"end":10920.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10916.907218750002,"end":10918.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10918.493468750003,"end":10920.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10920.704093750002,"end":10929.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10920.72096875,"end":10920.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10929.79971875,"end":10930.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10930.06971875,"end":10933.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10932.094718750002,"end":10932.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10933.96784375,"end":10934.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10934.27159375,"end":10942.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10942.270343750002,"end":10942.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10942.60784375,"end":10955.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10955.618468750003,"end":10958.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10958.85846875,"end":10970.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10970.789093750001,"end":10987.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10987.832843750002,"end":10994.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10995.004718750002,"end":10998.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10998.480968750002,"end":11000.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10998.56534375,"end":11000.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11000.25284375,"end":11000.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11000.860343750002,"end":11002.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11001.484718750002,"end":11002.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11002.817843750003,"end":11024.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11024.957843750002,"end":11036.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11036.550968750002,"end":11040.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11040.972218750001,"end":11045.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11044.212218750003,"end":11044.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11045.59596875,"end":11047.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11048.532218750002,"end":11050.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11050.962218750003,"end":11052.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11053.493468750003,"end":11056.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11056.88534375,"end":11073.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11073.55784375,"end":11077.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11077.692218750002,"end":11080.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11080.274093750002,"end":11080.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11080.45971875,"end":11080.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11081.269718750002,"end":11103.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11103.96659375,"end":11104.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11104.28721875,"end":11119.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11119.660343750002,"end":11130.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11130.426593750002,"end":11138.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11139.184718750003,"end":11154.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11155.215968750003,"end":11175.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11175.246593750002,"end":11178.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11178.739718750003,"end":11182.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11180.039093750001,"end":11180.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11181.06846875,"end":11183.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11183.02596875,"end":11183.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11183.262218750002,"end":11185.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11183.32971875,"end":11183.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11186.28284375,"end":11186.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11186.316593750002,"end":11186.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11186.890343750001,"end":11190.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11197.58909375,"end":11198.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11200.390343750001,"end":11200.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11200.407218750002,"end":11201.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11201.082218750002,"end":11201.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11201.099093750003,"end":11201.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11203.95096875,"end":11204.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11205.13221875,"end":11211.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11211.679718750001,"end":11218.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11211.96659375,"end":11212.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11218.598468750002,"end":11221.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11222.36159375,"end":11226.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11227.457843750002,"end":11234.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11235.81096875,"end":11259.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11259.199718750002,"end":11260.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11260.364093750002,"end":11268.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11260.566593750002,"end":11260.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11266.995968750001,"end":11267.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11268.97034375,"end":11269.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11269.915343750003,"end":11282.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11281.64346875,"end":11282.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11282.74034375,"end":11290.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11289.372218750003,"end":11289.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11290.18221875,"end":11301.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11297.961593750002,"end":11300.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11301.31971875,"end":11307.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11308.91346875,"end":11327.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11324.25284375,"end":11325.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11325.83909375,"end":11329.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11329.973468750002,"end":11340.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11330.294093750003,"end":11330.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11340.13221875,"end":11364.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11364.38159375,"end":11397.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11369.39346875,"end":11370.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11370.000968750002,"end":11370.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11374.18596875,"end":11374.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11397.000968750002,"end":11411.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11398.82346875,"end":11399.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11411.20971875,"end":11424.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11421.23346875,"end":11421.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11423.039093750001,"end":11439.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11435.594093750002,"end":11435.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11438.73284375,"end":11446.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11445.65159375,"end":11445.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11446.360343750002,"end":11450.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11447.76096875,"end":11448.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11448.824093750001,"end":11454.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11451.405968750001,"end":11451.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11453.07659375,"end":11457.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11457.04221875,"end":11467.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11459.387843750003,"end":11459.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11462.35784375,"end":11462.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11467.875968750002,"end":11472.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11472.246593750002,"end":11480.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11474.187218750001,"end":11474.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11480.07659375,"end":11502.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11503.53284375,"end":11503.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11504.309093750002,"end":11535.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11506.688468750002,"end":11507.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11507.532218750002,"end":11507.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11517.387218750002,"end":11517.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11535.696593750003,"end":11560.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11560.637843750003,"end":11560.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11560.941593750002,"end":11565.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11563.219718750002,"end":11563.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11565.61596875,"end":11567.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11566.71284375,"end":11567.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11567.99534375,"end":11585.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11573.867843750002,"end":11574.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11574.644093750001,"end":11574.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11575.09971875,"end":11575.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11585.730968750002,"end":11598.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11598.606593750003,"end":11619.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11603.449718750002,"end":11603.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11613.60846875,"end":11613.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11615.937218750001,"end":11616.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11619.44721875,"end":11634.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11619.98721875,"end":11620.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11634.16221875,"end":11639.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11639.207843750002,"end":11642.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11642.987843750001,"end":11654.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11653.956593750001,"end":11655.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11654.20971875,"end":11683.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11657.702843750001,"end":11659.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11683.16721875,"end":11683.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11683.20096875,"end":11686.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11685.074093750001,"end":11687.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11686.035968750002,"end":11688.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11689.461593750002,"end":11693.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11703.214718750001,"end":11704.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11705.10471875,"end":11706.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11706.859718750002,"end":11707.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11710.11659375,"end":11717.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11717.69346875,"end":11721.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11721.270968750003,"end":11721.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11721.777218750001,"end":11725.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11726.19846875,"end":11727.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11728.18971875,"end":11729.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11730.484718750002,"end":11737.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11733.910343750002,"end":11734.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11737.11659375,"end":11737.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11737.62284375,"end":11741.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11742.195968750002,"end":11743.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11743.27596875,"end":11749.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11749.992218750001,"end":11751.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11751.81471875,"end":11752.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11752.894718750002,"end":11754.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11754.61596875,"end":11756.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11756.421593750001,"end":11758.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11758.71659375,"end":11759.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11760.30284375,"end":11760.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11760.31971875,"end":11760.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11760.437843750002,"end":11762.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11760.47159375,"end":11760.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11762.04096875,"end":11762.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11762.378468750001,"end":11769.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11770.12409375,"end":11773.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11773.90409375,"end":11776.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11777.17784375,"end":11779.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11779.962218750003,"end":11782.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11782.35846875,"end":11812.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11812.36221875,"end":11820.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11820.597218750001,"end":11820.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11820.614093750002,"end":11821.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11820.917843750001,"end":11834.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11827.48221875,"end":11827.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11827.49909375,"end":11827.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11834.687843750002,"end":11834.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11834.957843750002,"end":11834.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11835.210968750001,"end":11842.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11840.965343750002,"end":11848.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11844.82971875,"end":11845.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11847.090968750003,"end":11847.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11849.04846875,"end":11853.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11849.132843750001,"end":11849.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11851.47846875,"end":11852.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11853.081593750001,"end":11856.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11855.579093750002,"end":11856.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11856.96284375,"end":11865.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11856.97971875,"end":11857.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11858.262218750002,"end":11858.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11866.29471875,"end":11870.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11867.94846875,"end":11868.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11868.25221875,"end":11868.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11870.53034375,"end":11871.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11871.390968750002,"end":11879.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11875.609718750002,"end":11875.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11879.558468750001,"end":11879.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11879.84534375,"end":11880.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11881.195343750001,"end":11887.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11888.99159375,"end":11895.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11895.57284375,"end":11897.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11898.27284375,"end":11898.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11899.352843750003,"end":11903.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11903.250968750002,"end":11904.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11904.75284375,"end":11907.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11907.21659375,"end":11907.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11908.12784375,"end":11918.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11917.915343750003,"end":11917.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11918.016593750002,"end":11918.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11918.640968750002,"end":11924.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11919.14721875,"end":11921.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11922.04971875,"end":11922.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11924.175968750002,"end":11924.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11924.42909375,"end":11924.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11924.51346875,"end":11924.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11924.95221875,"end":11928.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11928.411593750003,"end":11932.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11932.32659375,"end":11935.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11932.360343750002,"end":11932.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11934.53721875,"end":11934.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11935.313468750002,"end":11936.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11936.849093750003,"end":11937.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11937.55784375,"end":11937.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11937.827843750001,"end":11941.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11942.28284375,"end":11956.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11956.99784375,"end":11961.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11961.199718750002,"end":11961.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11961.26721875,"end":11961.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11961.452843750001,"end":11964.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11964.97971875,"end":11969.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11965.300343750001,"end":11965.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11969.50221875,"end":11975.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11972.94471875,"end":11973.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11976.117218750001,"end":11978.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11979.222218750001,"end":11980.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11981.16284375,"end":11986.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11986.64721875,"end":11989.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11989.54971875,"end":11994.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11994.98346875,"end":11999.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11997.71721875,"end":11997.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11999.539718750002,"end":12001.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12001.83471875,"end":12005.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12005.63159375,"end":12047.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12035.46659375,"end":12035.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12035.48346875,"end":12035.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12035.83784375,"end":12035.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12037.22159375,"end":12037.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12047.903468750003,"end":12048.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12048.02159375,"end":12052.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12052.965968750003,"end":12055.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12055.31159375,"end":12055.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12055.68284375,"end":12081.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12060.74534375,"end":12061.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12064.49159375,"end":12064.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12081.82221875,"end":12089.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12090.040343750003,"end":12092.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12092.723468750002,"end":12093.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12094.10721875,"end":12098.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12098.12346875,"end":12130.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12099.726593750001,"end":12100.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12106.34159375,"end":12106.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12106.375343750002,"end":12106.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12106.78034375,"end":12106.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12120.668468750002,"end":12121.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12130.202843750001,"end":12149.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12130.219718750002,"end":12130.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12134.08409375,"end":12135.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12149.997218750003,"end":12153.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12153.473468750002,"end":12177.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12162.92346875,"end":12165.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12167.42909375,"end":12169.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12170.09534375,"end":12170.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12172.829093750002,"end":12173.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12175.86659375,"end":12175.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12175.883468750002,"end":12176.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12176.42346875,"end":12176.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12177.739718750003,"end":12183.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12183.29159375,"end":12196.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12196.25159375,"end":12200.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12201.28034375,"end":12232.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12232.80284375,"end":12243.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12244.21034375,"end":12248.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12248.63159375,"end":12249.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12249.964718750001,"end":12251.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12252.141593750002,"end":12256.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12256.64721875,"end":12262.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12262.65471875,"end":12263.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12263.464718750001,"end":12267.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12267.430343750002,"end":12270.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12270.383468750002,"end":12276.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12276.94784375,"end":12281.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12281.824718750002,"end":12283.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12283.59659375,"end":12284.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12284.96346875,"end":12299.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12293.957843750002,"end":12294.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12294.02534375,"end":12294.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12294.12659375,"end":12294.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12299.965343750002,"end":12302.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12302.715968750003,"end":12303.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12303.42471875,"end":12305.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12305.770343750002,"end":12307.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12307.49159375,"end":12310.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12310.832843750002,"end":12312.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12312.942218750002,"end":12321.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12321.98721875,"end":12333.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12334.27221875,"end":12346.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12335.84159375,"end":12335.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12346.067843750003,"end":12346.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12346.894718750002,"end":12346.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12346.962218750003,"end":12347.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12347.13096875,"end":12363.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12363.989093750002,"end":12364.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12364.47846875,"end":12379.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12370.570343750001,"end":12370.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12370.60409375,"end":12370.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12370.941593750002,"end":12370.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12370.958468750003,"end":12370.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12379.41284375,"end":12380.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12379.952843750001,"end":12380.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12380.594093750002,"end":12380.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12380.745968750001,"end":12395.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12382.349093750003,"end":12382.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12383.226593750001,"end":12383.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12384.15471875,"end":12384.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12384.880343750003,"end":12384.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12385.47096875,"end":12385.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12385.487843750001,"end":12385.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12385.52159375,"end":12385.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12385.62284375,"end":12385.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12385.707218750002,"end":12385.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12385.94346875,"end":12385.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12389.554718750001,"end":12389.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12389.571593750003,"end":12389.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12389.706593750001,"end":12389.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12389.723468750002,"end":12389.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12389.824718750002,"end":12389.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12389.90909375,"end":12389.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12390.17909375,"end":12390.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12390.465968750003,"end":12390.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12392.524718750003,"end":12395.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12395.984093750001,"end":12415.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12402.278468750003,"end":12402.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12415.727843750003,"end":12421.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12421.515968750002,"end":12425.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12426.12284375,"end":12444.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12444.094718750002,"end":12444.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12444.28034375,"end":12451.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12452.29596875,"end":12453.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12454.01721875,"end":12455.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12456.19409375,"end":12460.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12461.03721875,"end":12463.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12463.63596875,"end":12475.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12471.887843750003,"end":12472.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12475.00971875,"end":12480.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12479.19471875,"end":12479.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12480.899093750002,"end":12511.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12490.180343750002,"end":12491.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12491.26034375,"end":12491.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12495.090968750003,"end":12495.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12495.10784375,"end":12495.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12511.72971875,"end":12512.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12511.746593750002,"end":12512.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12512.52284375,"end":12512.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12512.55659375,"end":12512.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12512.94471875,"end":12516.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12516.505343750003,"end":12523.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12523.609718750002,"end":12524.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12524.132843750001,"end":12524.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12524.31846875,"end":12531.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12531.06846875,"end":12531.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12531.11909375,"end":12531.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12531.355343750001,"end":12533.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12533.86971875,"end":12534.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12534.257843750001,"end":12537.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12537.19409375,"end":12537.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12537.582218750002,"end":12543.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12537.61596875,"end":12537.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12543.04971875,"end":12543.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12543.31971875,"end":12543.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12543.31971875,"end":12545.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12543.37034375,"end":12543.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12545.277218750001,"end":12545.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12545.53034375,"end":12552.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12545.56409375,"end":12545.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12552.550343750001,"end":12552.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12552.719093750002,"end":12566.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12566.20221875,"end":12566.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12566.57346875,"end":12579.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12579.95534375,"end":12587.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12584.933468750001,"end":12587.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12590.468468750001,"end":12594.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12606.044093750003,"end":12614.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12615.156593750002,"end":12618.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12618.649718750003,"end":12621.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12621.94034375,"end":12624.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12625.31534375,"end":12656.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12656.618468750003,"end":12661.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12660.786593750003,"end":12669.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12669.51096875,"end":12669.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12669.76409375,"end":12674.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12674.45534375,"end":12676.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12676.21034375,"end":12676.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12676.68284375,"end":12691.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12683.500343750002,"end":12683.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12683.567843750003,"end":12683.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12683.719718750002,"end":12683.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12683.80409375,"end":12684.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12686.504093750002,"end":12686.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12686.85846875,"end":12686.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12690.503468750001,"end":12691.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12691.667843750001,"end":12695.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12692.71409375,"end":12692.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12695.54909375,"end":12700.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12701.337218750003,"end":12705.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12705.555968750003,"end":12705.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12705.72471875,"end":12708.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12708.087218750003,"end":12708.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12708.32346875,"end":12708.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12708.37409375,"end":12708.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12708.390968750002,"end":12708.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12708.441593750002,"end":12709.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12708.492218750001,"end":12708.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12709.53846875,"end":12709.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12709.62284375,"end":12709.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12709.808468750001,"end":12709.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12709.977218750002,"end":12710.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12710.06159375,"end":12712.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12712.69409375,"end":12712.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12712.829093750002,"end":12712.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12712.879718750002,"end":12725.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12715.79909375,"end":12716.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12716.558468750001,"end":12717.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12718.07721875,"end":12718.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12722.059718750003,"end":12724.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12725.468468750001,"end":12727.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12727.03784375,"end":12727.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12727.442843750003,"end":12731.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12727.695968750002,"end":12727.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12727.965968750003,"end":12728.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12730.446593750003,"end":12733.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12733.011593750001,"end":12733.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12733.41659375,"end":12738.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12736.184093750002,"end":12736.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12738.37784375,"end":12742.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12742.64721875,"end":12742.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12742.84971875,"end":12755.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12742.883468750002,"end":12743.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12755.860343750002,"end":12787.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12788.15909375,"end":12792.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12793.00221875,"end":12795.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12795.90471875,"end":12809.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12810.687218750001,"end":12813.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12813.62346875,"end":12814.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12814.602218750002,"end":12815.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12815.344718750002,"end":12817.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12817.47096875,"end":12821.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12822.26346875,"end":12825.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12825.824093750001,"end":12827.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12828.55784375,"end":12830.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12829.300343750001,"end":12830.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12830.39721875,"end":12830.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12830.481593750003,"end":12830.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12830.582843750002,"end":12831.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12830.751593750003,"end":12843.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12838.699718750002,"end":12838.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12843.25596875,"end":12847.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12847.204718750003,"end":12851.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12849.06096875,"end":12849.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12849.145343750002,"end":12849.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12849.22971875,"end":12849.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12852.21659375,"end":12857.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12857.633468750002,"end":12858.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12858.848468750002,"end":12864.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12861.953468750002,"end":12861.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12864.855968750002,"end":12864.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12864.87284375,"end":12864.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12864.906593750002,"end":12864.923468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12864.923468750003,"end":12866.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12867.960968750001,"end":12870.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12871.454093750002,"end":12874.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12874.862843750001,"end":12875.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12875.200343750003,"end":12877.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12877.79909375,"end":12888.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12888.81846875,"end":12889.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12890.45534375,"end":12891.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12891.974093750003,"end":12899.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12899.449718750002,"end":12904.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12905.01846875,"end":12905.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12905.895968750003,"end":12913.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12914.02971875,"end":12914.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12915.531593750002,"end":12922.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12923.78346875,"end":12926.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12927.42846875,"end":12929.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12930.449093750001,"end":12932.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12932.81159375,"end":12933.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12933.43596875,"end":12936.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12936.270968750003,"end":12937.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12937.485968750003,"end":12938.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12938.481593750003,"end":12942.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12942.49784375,"end":12944.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12945.14721875,"end":12946.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12947.56034375,"end":12952.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12948.977843750003,"end":12949.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12949.484093750001,"end":12949.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12952.724093750003,"end":12956.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12956.520968750003,"end":12961.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12961.97159375,"end":12970.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12970.915343750003,"end":12975.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12975.84284375,"end":12982.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12982.57596875,"end":12984.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12984.972218750001,"end":12986.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12986.609093750001,"end":12986.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12987.368468750003,"end":12987.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12987.38534375,"end":12987.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12987.97596875,"end":13004.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12990.81096875,"end":12991.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13004.024093750002,"end":13004.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13004.614718750003,"end":13004.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13004.749718750001,"end":13014.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13005.036593750003,"end":13005.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13006.11659375,"end":13006.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13015.81971875,"end":13023.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13017.625343750002,"end":13017.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13017.794093750003,"end":13018.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13018.789718750002,"end":13018.907843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13023.902843750002,"end":13030.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13031.597843750002,"end":13032.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13034.129093750002,"end":13034.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13034.26409375,"end":13049.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13034.297843750002,"end":13034.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13034.348468750002,"end":13034.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13034.719718750002,"end":13034.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13047.02159375,"end":13047.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13049.738468750002,"end":13050.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13050.49784375,"end":13050.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13050.51471875,"end":13057.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13051.274093750002,"end":13051.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13059.340343750002,"end":13060.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13062.10784375,"end":13065.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13066.05659375,"end":13066.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13066.410968750002,"end":13066.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13066.86659375,"end":13066.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13066.90034375,"end":13066.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13066.91721875,"end":13067.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13067.035343750002,"end":13077.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13067.052218750003,"end":13067.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13077.599093750003,"end":13077.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13077.801593750002,"end":13080.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13078.645343750002,"end":13078.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13078.67909375,"end":13078.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13078.949093750001,"end":13078.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13079.30346875,"end":13079.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13079.320343750001,"end":13080.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13080.079718750003,"end":13080.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13080.09659375,"end":13083.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13080.113468750002,"end":13080.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13080.180968750003,"end":13080.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13080.29909375,"end":13080.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13083.184718750003,"end":13102.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13092.43221875,"end":13096.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13099.35096875,"end":13099.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13102.03409375,"end":13102.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13102.40534375,"end":13103.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13102.422218750002,"end":13102.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13103.468468750001,"end":13103.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13103.485343750002,"end":13128.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13112.26034375,"end":13112.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13112.277218750001,"end":13112.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13112.63159375,"end":13112.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13115.601593750001,"end":13115.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13115.68596875,"end":13115.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13128.578468750002,"end":13132.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13132.864718750003,"end":13133.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13133.97846875,"end":13134.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13134.14721875,"end":13145.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13134.180968750003,"end":13134.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13145.58846875,"end":13152.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13152.945968750002,"end":13154.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13153.55346875,"end":13158.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13159.004093750002,"end":13160.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13165.922843750002,"end":13170.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13187.87721875,"end":13189.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13190.610968750003,"end":13191.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13194.47534375,"end":13196.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13197.25971875,"end":13205.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13200.297218750002,"end":13200.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13205.781593750002,"end":13208.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13208.414093750001,"end":13208.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13208.54909375,"end":13211.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13208.565968750001,"end":13208.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13208.734718750002,"end":13208.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13213.03784375,"end":13217.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13217.273468750001,"end":13219.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13219.83846875,"end":13221.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13221.72846875,"end":13221.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13221.74534375,"end":13222.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13222.032218750002,"end":13224.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13224.242843750002,"end":13224.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13224.394718750002,"end":13224.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13224.816593750002,"end":13225.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13226.63909375,"end":13227.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13227.75284375,"end":13230.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13231.094093750002,"end":13233.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13233.844718750002,"end":13234.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13235.12721875,"end":13242.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13244.610968750003,"end":13247.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13248.84659375,"end":13250.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13250.770343750002,"end":13254.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13255.42784375,"end":13256.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13257.48659375,"end":13259.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13260.54096875,"end":13266.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13265.35034375,"end":13265.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13267.493468750003,"end":13271.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13271.57721875,"end":13271.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13273.04534375,"end":13278.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13275.930968750003,"end":13275.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13278.968468750001,"end":13283.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13284.503468750001,"end":13293.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13294.71284375,"end":13297.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13297.29471875,"end":13297.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13297.78409375,"end":13299.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13300.112843750001,"end":13301.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13302.74534375,"end":13304.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13304.567843750003,"end":13306.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13308.297218750002,"end":13309.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13309.714718750001,"end":13311.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13312.414718750002,"end":13313.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13313.96721875,"end":13314.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13315.18221875,"end":13315.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13315.907843750003,"end":13318.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13319.839718750001,"end":13320.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13321.071593750003,"end":13321.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13321.864718750003,"end":13322.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13323.214718750001,"end":13323.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13324.159718750001,"end":13328.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13328.58096875,"end":13329.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13329.99846875,"end":13330.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13331.04471875,"end":13332.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13333.559093750002,"end":13334.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13335.398468750001,"end":13336.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13337.524718750003,"end":13337.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13337.74409375,"end":13339.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13339.347218750001,"end":13340.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13341.372218750003,"end":13342.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13342.890968750002,"end":13345.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13345.82721875,"end":13352.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13352.965343750002,"end":13353.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13353.876593750003,"end":13357.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13358.38221875,"end":13358.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13359.22596875,"end":13360.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13361.36909375,"end":13362.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13362.921593750001,"end":13363.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13364.558468750001,"end":13368.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13368.49034375,"end":13370.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13371.375968750002,"end":13373.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13373.55284375,"end":13374.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13375.392218750003,"end":13391.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13391.96346875,"end":13394.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13394.410343750002,"end":13395.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13395.76034375,"end":13397.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13398.696593750003,"end":13399.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13400.333468750003,"end":13401.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13401.599093750003,"end":13403.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13404.46784375,"end":13408.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13408.63596875,"end":13410.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13410.222218750001,"end":13410.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13410.711593750002,"end":13414.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13414.96409375,"end":13418.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13418.69346875,"end":13419.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13419.824093750001,"end":13436.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13436.294093750003,"end":13463.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13464.458468750003,"end":13478.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13478.66721875,"end":13479.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13480.439093750003,"end":13481.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13483.40909375,"end":13489.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13489.720343750003,"end":13490.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13490.192843750003,"end":13490.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13490.766593750002,"end":13491.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13491.47534375,"end":13498.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13491.57659375,"end":13492.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13492.015343750001,"end":13492.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13492.47096875,"end":13492.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13492.487843750001,"end":13492.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13492.555343750002,"end":13492.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13492.57221875,"end":13492.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13492.605968750002,"end":13493.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13493.297843750002,"end":13493.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13493.31471875,"end":13493.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13495.06971875,"end":13495.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13496.774093750002,"end":13497.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13497.347843750002,"end":13503.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13502.59596875,"end":13503.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13503.996593750002,"end":13504.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13504.047218750002,"end":13504.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13504.722218750001,"end":13504.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13504.75596875,"end":13508.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13508.890343750001,"end":13514.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13508.940968750001,"end":13510.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13511.77596875,"end":13512.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13514.003468750001,"end":13514.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13519.89284375,"end":13523.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13530.55784375,"end":13531.907843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13532.12721875,"end":13533.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13536.24471875,"end":13536.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13536.261593750001,"end":13544.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13545.458468750003,"end":13573.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13573.58909375,"end":13592.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13592.742218750001,"end":13593.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13593.164093750001,"end":13594.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13594.83471875,"end":13601.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13601.669093750003,"end":13602.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13601.88846875,"end":13606.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13602.05721875,"end":13602.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13602.090968750003,"end":13602.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13607.052218750003,"end":13647.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13613.34659375,"end":13613.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13613.380343750003,"end":13613.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13616.940968750001,"end":13617.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13624.180343750002,"end":13624.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13624.61909375,"end":13624.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13643.519093750001,"end":13643.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13643.704718750003,"end":13643.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13643.839718750001,"end":13644.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13647.906593750002,"end":13687.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13662.95909375,"end":13664.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13668.426593750002,"end":13668.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13668.477218750002,"end":13668.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13676.08784375,"end":13676.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13681.234718750002,"end":13681.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13682.85471875,"end":13683.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13684.559093750002,"end":13685.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13686.347843750002,"end":13698.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13694.29596875,"end":13694.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13698.329093750002,"end":13698.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13698.480968750002,"end":13717.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13698.49784375,"end":13698.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13704.859718750002,"end":13705.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13705.14659375,"end":13705.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13717.07721875,"end":13717.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13717.094093750002,"end":13717.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13717.17846875,"end":13717.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13717.245968750001,"end":13731.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13725.34596875,"end":13725.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13731.82596875,"end":13733.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13733.83409375,"end":13737.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13737.42846875,"end":13737.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13737.614093750002,"end":13761.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13762.58909375,"end":13764.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13764.63096875,"end":13784.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13773.743468750003,"end":13774.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13784.40846875,"end":13784.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13784.745968750001,"end":13882.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13786.16346875,"end":13786.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13789.859093750001,"end":13790.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13790.21346875,"end":13790.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13796.204093750002,"end":13796.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13796.32221875,"end":13796.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13798.212218750003,"end":13801.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13801.840343750002,"end":13802.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13811.40846875,"end":13811.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13815.77909375,"end":13816.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13816.707218750002,"end":13817.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13818.344093750002,"end":13818.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13821.58409375,"end":13822.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13826.899718750003,"end":13827.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13831.270343750002,"end":13831.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13835.742218750001,"end":13836.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13836.737843750001,"end":13837.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13841.918468750002,"end":13842.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13846.52534375,"end":13846.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13858.371593750002,"end":13858.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13860.632843750001,"end":13860.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13873.12034375,"end":13873.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13874.21721875,"end":13874.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13882.45221875,"end":13883.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13883.39721875,"end":13884.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13883.430968750003,"end":13901.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13898.31471875,"end":13898.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13898.43284375,"end":13898.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13902.21284375,"end":13902.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13902.972218750001,"end":13928.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13907.680343750002,"end":13908.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13908.65909375,"end":13909.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13909.249718750001,"end":13909.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13916.15159375,"end":13916.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13916.168468750002,"end":13916.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13916.370968750001,"end":13916.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13922.715968750003,"end":13923.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13923.47534375,"end":13923.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13923.559718750003,"end":13923.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13926.58034375,"end":13926.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13928.723468750002,"end":13946.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13947.184718750003,"end":14030.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13948.754093750002,"end":13950.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13981.69409375,"end":13981.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14004.120968750001,"end":14005.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14009.082218750002,"end":14009.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14009.11596875,"end":14009.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14009.79096875,"end":14009.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14030.395343750002,"end":14072.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14038.32659375,"end":14038.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14040.790343750003,"end":14041.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14041.02659375,"end":14041.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14041.161593750003,"end":14041.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14042.680343750002,"end":14042.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14042.71409375,"end":14043.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14051.421593750001,"end":14051.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14058.171593750001,"end":14058.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14060.500343750002,"end":14063.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14065.95096875,"end":14066.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14066.136593750001,"end":14066.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14066.355968750002,"end":14066.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14071.199093750001,"end":14071.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14072.093468750001,"end":14095.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14076.34596875,"end":14076.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14079.09659375,"end":14079.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14080.14284375,"end":14080.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14083.703468750002,"end":14083.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14083.720343750003,"end":14083.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14083.973468750002,"end":14084.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14092.157843750003,"end":14092.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14092.191593750002,"end":14092.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14094.047843750002,"end":14094.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14094.06471875,"end":14094.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14095.954718750003,"end":14104.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14103.160343750002,"end":14107.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14105.03346875,"end":14114.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14110.855343750001,"end":14111.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14112.458468750003,"end":14117.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14116.37346875,"end":14116.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14117.301593750002,"end":14146.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14126.71784375,"end":14126.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14132.67471875,"end":14133.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14137.180343750002,"end":14137.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14139.222218750001,"end":14143.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14145.06096875,"end":14146.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14146.782218750002,"end":14163.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14150.427218750003,"end":14151.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14155.489718750003,"end":14155.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14155.540343750003,"end":14155.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14155.55721875,"end":14155.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14163.37034375,"end":14167.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14163.57284375,"end":14165.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14165.496593750002,"end":14165.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14167.032218750002,"end":14168.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14168.129093750002,"end":14169.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14169.293468750002,"end":14173.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14187.19784375,"end":14188.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14188.969718750002,"end":14190.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14192.715968750003,"end":14245.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14233.28346875,"end":14233.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14246.327843750001,"end":14257.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14257.97159375,"end":14299.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14261.110343750002,"end":14261.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14261.515343750001,"end":14261.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14264.856593750003,"end":14265.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14266.898468750001,"end":14267.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14275.74096875,"end":14276.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14299.399718750003,"end":14299.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14299.46721875,"end":14302.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14302.09971875,"end":14323.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14319.379718750002,"end":14334.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14326.011593750001,"end":14326.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14326.028468750003,"end":14327.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14328.036593750003,"end":14328.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14328.407843750003,"end":14328.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14329.875968750002,"end":14330.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14330.63534375,"end":14330.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14334.80346875,"end":14352.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14341.13159375,"end":14341.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14341.469093750002,"end":14341.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14352.758468750002,"end":14352.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14352.77534375,"end":14353.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14353.112843750001,"end":14356.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14357.095343750003,"end":14402.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14402.97846875,"end":14431.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14420.81534375,"end":14420.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14420.849093750003,"end":14420.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14431.176593750002,"end":14431.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14431.395968750003,"end":14435.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14435.36159375,"end":14435.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14435.53034375,"end":14481.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14482.122218750003,"end":14513.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14512.21034375,"end":14512.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14512.902218750001,"end":14512.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14512.93596875,"end":14513.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14513.003468750001,"end":14513.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14517.62721875,"end":14520.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14521.27221875,"end":14523.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14539.800968750002,"end":14541.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14545.335968750001,"end":14546.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14546.36534375,"end":14557.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14553.33471875,"end":14554.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14557.13159375,"end":14563.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14563.527218750001,"end":14563.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14563.965968750003,"end":14592.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14568.47159375,"end":14568.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14569.41659375,"end":14569.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14572.99409375,"end":14574.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14578.832843750002,"end":14578.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14578.883468750002,"end":14578.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14578.96784375,"end":14579.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14579.54159375,"end":14579.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14583.220343750003,"end":14583.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14583.254093750002,"end":14583.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14583.54096875,"end":14583.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14588.08034375,"end":14588.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14591.99534375,"end":14630.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14600.43284375,"end":14601.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14608.81971875,"end":14608.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14608.97159375,"end":14609.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14609.207843750002,"end":14609.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14618.72534375,"end":14619.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14620.058468750001,"end":14620.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14631.735968750003,"end":14633.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14634.030968750001,"end":14634.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14635.06034375,"end":14645.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14646.36659375,"end":14653.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14654.078468750002,"end":14665.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14665.300343750001,"end":14677.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14672.168468750002,"end":14672.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14672.286593750003,"end":14672.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14677.703468750002,"end":14678.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14677.99034375,"end":14679.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14678.04096875,"end":14678.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14679.72846875,"end":14682.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14682.69846875,"end":14683.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14683.47471875,"end":14684.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14683.91346875,"end":14693.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14693.987843750001,"end":14696.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14696.18159375,"end":14696.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14696.535968750002,"end":14699.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14696.55284375,"end":14696.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14699.590343750002,"end":14708.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14706.94784375,"end":14715.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14710.407218750002,"end":14711.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14712.75284375,"end":14714.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14715.300968750002,"end":14725.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14724.09284375,"end":14741.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14726.235968750003,"end":14726.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14727.434093750002,"end":14727.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14728.952843750001,"end":14729.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14729.03721875,"end":14730.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14733.711593750002,"end":14734.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14740.292843750001,"end":14751.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14744.106593750003,"end":14744.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14750.55284375,"end":14751.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14751.649718750003,"end":14756.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14756.67846875,"end":14771.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14771.410343750002,"end":14771.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14771.74784375,"end":14788.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14777.755343750003,"end":14778.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14778.14346875,"end":14778.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14778.160343750002,"end":14778.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14781.94034375,"end":14782.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14782.04159375,"end":14782.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14782.919093750003,"end":14783.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14788.184093750002,"end":14788.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14788.335968750001,"end":14793.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14792.26784375,"end":14820.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14793.26346875,"end":14793.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14801.19471875,"end":14802.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14803.540343750003,"end":14803.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14805.700343750003,"end":14806.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14806.172843750002,"end":14807.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14815.808468750001,"end":14816.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14816.871593750002,"end":14818.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14820.48284375,"end":14851.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14820.70221875,"end":14827.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14827.97534375,"end":14828.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14828.042843750001,"end":14828.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14828.07659375,"end":14828.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14828.093468750001,"end":14828.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14828.97096875,"end":14829.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14829.578468750002,"end":14829.595343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14829.595343750003,"end":14830.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14830.40534375,"end":14830.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14830.45596875,"end":14830.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14833.375343750002,"end":14833.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14833.645343750002,"end":14833.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14839.804718750001,"end":14839.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14844.344093750002,"end":14844.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14844.715343750002,"end":14844.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14848.309718750003,"end":14848.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14852.359718750002,"end":14855.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14855.009093750003,"end":14855.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14855.19471875,"end":14858.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14856.76409375,"end":14857.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14858.333468750003,"end":14858.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14858.535968750002,"end":14858.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14858.805968750003,"end":14864.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14865.184718750003,"end":14872.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14870.517218750003,"end":14870.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14870.53409375,"end":14870.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14870.567843750003,"end":14870.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14870.58471875,"end":14870.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14870.95596875,"end":14870.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14872.27221875,"end":14872.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14872.289093750001,"end":14872.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14872.305968750003,"end":14872.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14872.508468750002,"end":14880.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14872.57596875,"end":14872.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14872.59284375,"end":14872.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14880.54096875,"end":14880.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14880.76034375,"end":14885.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14886.126593750003,"end":14889.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14889.87284375,"end":14891.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14890.952843750001,"end":14893.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14893.88909375,"end":14898.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14895.829718750003,"end":14895.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14896.352843750003,"end":14896.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14896.89284375,"end":14898.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14898.968468750001,"end":14899.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14899.035968750002,"end":14899.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14899.05284375,"end":14901.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14899.407218750002,"end":14904.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14902.96784375,"end":14904.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14904.570968750002,"end":14905.110968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14905.110968750003,"end":14908.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14908.97534375,"end":14909.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14909.565968750001,"end":14927.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14909.61659375,"end":14909.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14909.65034375,"end":14909.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14912.957843750002,"end":14913.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14922.89721875,"end":14923.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14927.976593750001,"end":14928.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14928.17909375,"end":14928.314093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14928.314093750003,"end":14928.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14928.364718750003,"end":14928.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14928.465968750003,"end":14928.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14928.63471875,"end":14931.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14928.65159375,"end":14928.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14931.503468750001,"end":14933.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14933.055968750003,"end":14934.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14935.08096875,"end":14957.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14957.32221875,"end":14965.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14965.320968750002,"end":14965.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14965.33784375,"end":14965.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14965.489718750003,"end":14965.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14965.540343750003,"end":14965.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14965.55721875,"end":14965.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14965.574093750001,"end":14973.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14965.590968750003,"end":14965.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14965.641593750002,"end":14965.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14965.810343750003,"end":14965.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14965.860968750003,"end":14966.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14966.012843750003,"end":14966.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14966.063468750002,"end":14969.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14974.14659375,"end":14978.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14978.280968750001,"end":14978.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14978.567843750003,"end":14983.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14984.355968750002,"end":14986.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14986.836593750002,"end":14988.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14989.485968750003,"end":14998.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14998.530968750001,"end":14999.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14998.851593750001,"end":15003.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15002.378468750001,"end":15038.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15034.575968750003,"end":15035.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15036.33096875,"end":15059.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15059.297843750002,"end":15088.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15083.867843750002,"end":15084.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15084.72846875,"end":15085.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15087.782843750003,"end":15123.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15089.48721875,"end":15092.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15093.95909375,"end":15095.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15096.203468750002,"end":15096.220343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15096.220343750003,"end":15097.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15103.746593750002,"end":15107.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15112.082843750002,"end":15112.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15112.757843750001,"end":15112.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15117.516593750002,"end":15118.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15124.35096875,"end":15128.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15126.595343750003,"end":15127.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15127.77659375,"end":15130.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15128.92409375,"end":15156.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15131.35409375,"end":15132.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15136.83846875,"end":15136.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15136.88909375,"end":15137.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15137.513468750003,"end":15137.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15140.53409375,"end":15140.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15140.58471875,"end":15140.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15140.669093750003,"end":15140.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15140.753468750001,"end":15140.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15140.820968750002,"end":15140.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15156.81846875,"end":15157.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15157.51034375,"end":15158.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15157.527218750001,"end":15157.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15157.898468750001,"end":15158.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15158.219093750002,"end":15163.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15159.923468750003,"end":15161.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15161.40846875,"end":15162.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15165.492218750001,"end":15170.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15171.887843750003,"end":15172.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15185.590343750002,"end":15185.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15185.97846875,"end":15186.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15186.029093750003,"end":15186.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15186.113468750002,"end":15186.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15186.14721875,"end":15186.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15186.265343750001,"end":15186.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15186.29909375,"end":15186.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15186.94034375,"end":15189.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15190.062218750001,"end":15190.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15194.06159375,"end":15194.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15195.22596875,"end":15195.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15197.099093750003,"end":15197.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15198.43221875,"end":15199.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15199.832843750002,"end":15200.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15201.85784375,"end":15202.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15203.207843750002,"end":15203.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15204.473468750002,"end":15205.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15205.70534375,"end":15205.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15205.87409375,"end":15205.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15205.97534375,"end":15207.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15208.65846875,"end":15214.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15215.594093750002,"end":15216.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15216.555968750003,"end":15219.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15219.30659375,"end":15224.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15223.997843750003,"end":15224.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15224.74034375,"end":15226.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15225.58409375,"end":15226.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15226.49534375,"end":15232.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15232.266593750002,"end":15232.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15232.300343750001,"end":15232.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15232.840343750002,"end":15235.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15234.527843750002,"end":15234.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15236.40096875,"end":15237.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15237.19409375,"end":15237.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15237.51471875,"end":15237.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15237.599093750003,"end":15242.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15242.57721875,"end":15243.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15244.129718750002,"end":15255.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15246.492218750001,"end":15246.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15246.542843750001,"end":15246.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15255.38534375,"end":15255.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15255.672218750002,"end":15261.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15262.118468750003,"end":15262.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15262.13534375,"end":15262.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15262.169093750003,"end":15262.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15262.371593750002,"end":15263.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15262.422218750002,"end":15262.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15263.687843750002,"end":15280.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15280.59659375,"end":15309.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15282.419093750003,"end":15282.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15288.308468750001,"end":15288.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15295.497218750003,"end":15295.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15304.930343750002,"end":15305.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15309.030968750001,"end":15309.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15309.570968750002,"end":15309.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15309.621593750002,"end":15309.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15309.891593750002,"end":15310.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15310.566593750002,"end":15317.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15316.860968750003,"end":15317.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15317.35034375,"end":15317.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15318.278468750003,"end":15337.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15330.411593750003,"end":15330.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15338.17409375,"end":15345.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15346.155968750001,"end":15354.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15355.57221875,"end":15367.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15367.55346875,"end":15367.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15367.570343750001,"end":15367.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15367.857218750003,"end":15367.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15368.532218750002,"end":15368.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15368.97096875,"end":15369.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15369.56159375,"end":15369.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15369.98346875,"end":15404.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15370.472843750002,"end":15370.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15379.36596875,"end":15379.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15392.66346875,"end":15392.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15392.730968750002,"end":15392.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15392.91659375,"end":15393.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15404.864093750002,"end":15409.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15408.30659375,"end":15412.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15409.57221875,"end":15409.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15412.187843750002,"end":15423.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15420.54096875,"end":15420.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15423.274718750003,"end":15423.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15423.544718750003,"end":15432.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15424.152218750001,"end":15424.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15425.08034375,"end":15426.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15426.329093750002,"end":15426.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15432.876593750003,"end":15433.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15434.969093750002,"end":15436.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15436.977218750002,"end":15437.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15437.36534375,"end":15438.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15438.765968750002,"end":15439.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15439.710968750001,"end":15439.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15439.96409375,"end":15439.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15440.01471875,"end":15441.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15441.398468750001,"end":15441.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15441.63471875,"end":15442.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15442.613468750002,"end":15443.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15443.91284375,"end":15447.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15447.33846875,"end":15461.564093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15456.872843750003,"end":15457.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15458.35784375,"end":15464.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15465.546593750001,"end":15466.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15467.38596875,"end":15475.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15475.958468750003,"end":15483.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15483.535343750002,"end":15483.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15483.56909375,"end":15483.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15483.585968750001,"end":15483.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15483.82221875,"end":15486.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15487.062218750001,"end":15487.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15487.09596875,"end":15494.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15487.112843750001,"end":15489.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15495.38159375,"end":15498.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15496.86659375,"end":15497.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15498.85784375,"end":15504.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15501.524093750002,"end":15501.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15507.075968750003,"end":15508.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15509.97846875,"end":15511.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15510.906593750002,"end":15511.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15511.73346875,"end":15515.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15513.37034375,"end":15515.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15515.969093750002,"end":15527.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15515.985968750003,"end":15517.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15524.929718750001,"end":15525.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15525.520343750002,"end":15525.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15526.347218750001,"end":15530.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15528.945968750002,"end":15552.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15552.65534375,"end":15563.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15564.09659375,"end":15570.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15566.425343750001,"end":15567.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15567.77534375,"end":15571.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15571.200968750003,"end":15571.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15571.386593750001,"end":15576.314093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15571.437218750001,"end":15572.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15573.85034375,"end":15574.154093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15576.314093750003,"end":15577.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15578.33909375,"end":15580.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15581.005343750003,"end":15581.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15581.511593750001,"end":15581.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15581.629718750002,"end":15581.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15581.950343750003,"end":15588.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15583.418468750002,"end":15585.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15588.312218750001,"end":15597.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15595.720343750003,"end":15597.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15597.62721875,"end":15597.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15597.94784375,"end":15601.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15598.133468750002,"end":15598.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15601.42409375,"end":15609.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15604.12409375,"end":15604.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15604.815968750001,"end":15605.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15610.097843750002,"end":15612.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15613.40534375,"end":15625.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15625.234718750002,"end":15626.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15627.10784375,"end":15629.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15629.976593750001,"end":15634.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15634.70159375,"end":15640.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15642.61596875,"end":15644.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15644.40471875,"end":15646.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15646.851593750001,"end":15646.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15647.57721875,"end":15647.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15650.85096875,"end":15651.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15651.69471875,"end":15675.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15657.85409375,"end":15658.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15658.832843750002,"end":15658.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15675.77534375,"end":15807.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15694.793468750002,"end":15694.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15704.04096875,"end":15704.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15807.754718750002,"end":15810.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15811.821593750003,"end":15814.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15815.230343750001,"end":15816.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15816.141593750002,"end":15816.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15816.597218750001,"end":15824.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15825.23721875,"end":15826.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15826.82346875,"end":15827.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15826.890968750002,"end":15826.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15827.44784375,"end":15828.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15827.81909375,"end":15831.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15832.071593750003,"end":15833.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15833.269718750002,"end":15833.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15834.704093750002,"end":15835.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15835.581593750001,"end":15836.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15837.285968750002,"end":15848.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15846.145343750002,"end":15848.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15849.58784375,"end":15851.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15851.64659375,"end":15852.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15852.76034375,"end":15853.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15853.75596875,"end":15856.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15856.371593750002,"end":15857.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15857.62034375,"end":15857.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15857.890343750001,"end":15859.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15859.965968750003,"end":15860.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15860.269718750002,"end":15863.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15860.320343750001,"end":15860.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15863.644718750002,"end":15865.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15864.032843750003,"end":15868.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15867.62721875,"end":15872.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15872.824718750002,"end":15899.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15900.617843750002,"end":15907.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15904.65096875,"end":15904.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15905.832218750002,"end":15906.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15906.675968750002,"end":15908.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15907.857218750003,"end":15912.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15910.55721875,"end":15911.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15912.784718750001,"end":15913.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15913.13909375,"end":15913.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15914.792843750001,"end":15920.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15919.922843750002,"end":15919.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15919.973468750002,"end":15921.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15920.699093750001,"end":15922.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15921.69471875,"end":15922.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15922.437218750001,"end":15922.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15922.487843750001,"end":15923.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15923.68596875,"end":15923.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15923.719718750002,"end":15924.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15923.939093750003,"end":15925.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15925.980968750002,"end":15927.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15926.01471875,"end":15926.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15927.195968750002,"end":15927.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15927.246593750002,"end":15927.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15927.28034375,"end":15927.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15927.499718750001,"end":15928.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15927.90471875,"end":15927.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15927.921593750001,"end":15928.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15928.090343750002,"end":15928.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15928.107218750003,"end":15928.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15928.242218750001,"end":15932.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15933.76034375,"end":15936.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15934.249718750001,"end":15940.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15941.55659375,"end":15943.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15941.77596875,"end":15941.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15941.82659375,"end":15943.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15943.125968750002,"end":15943.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15943.19346875,"end":15943.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15943.969718750002,"end":15944.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15945.184718750003,"end":15947.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15947.04096875,"end":15949.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15949.36971875,"end":15951.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15951.732218750003,"end":15952.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15952.727843750003,"end":15954.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15954.415343750003,"end":15955.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15955.44471875,"end":15956.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15956.625968750002,"end":15956.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15956.659718750001,"end":15956.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15956.69346875,"end":15957.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15957.01409375,"end":15961.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15957.030968750001,"end":15957.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15961.013468750003,"end":15984.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15961.064093750003,"end":15961.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15965.72159375,"end":15966.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15982.832843750002,"end":15996.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15986.579093750002,"end":15986.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15986.96721875,"end":15987.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15990.29159375,"end":15990.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15990.308468750001,"end":15990.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15994.915343750003,"end":15994.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15995.337218750003,"end":15995.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15996.29909375,"end":15997.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15996.636593750001,"end":16004.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15999.235343750002,"end":15999.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16003.909718750001,"end":16004.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16004.348468750002,"end":16004.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16004.58471875,"end":16004.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16004.83784375,"end":16014.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16005.090968750003,"end":16005.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16006.32284375,"end":16010.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16011.722843750002,"end":16011.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16013.832218750002,"end":16013.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16013.96721875,"end":16014.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16014.203468750002,"end":16014.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16014.405968750001,"end":16014.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16014.43971875,"end":16016.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16016.633468750002,"end":16017.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16018.590968750003,"end":16020.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16021.324718750002,"end":16024.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16024.581593750001,"end":16034.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16036.12409375,"end":16037.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16038.43596875,"end":16049.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16049.489093750002,"end":16049.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16050.09659375,"end":16055.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16055.125343750002,"end":16057.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16057.605968750002,"end":16058.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16059.175343750001,"end":16060.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16060.96409375,"end":16068.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16068.878468750001,"end":16069.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16069.840343750002,"end":16071.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16072.18596875,"end":16073.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16074.210968750001,"end":16076.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16077.36659375,"end":16077.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16078.83471875,"end":16080.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16080.336593750002,"end":16081.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16082.749718750001,"end":16083.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16083.407843750003,"end":16084.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16085.06159375,"end":16085.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16085.972843750002,"end":16086.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16086.074093750001,"end":16086.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16086.10784375,"end":16086.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16086.546593750001,"end":16086.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16086.563468750002,"end":16086.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16086.58034375,"end":16086.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16086.597218750001,"end":16086.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16086.79971875,"end":16086.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16086.833468750003,"end":16086.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16087.12034375,"end":16125.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16125.03846875,"end":16125.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16125.629093750002,"end":16125.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16125.679718750001,"end":16126.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16126.574093750001,"end":16126.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16126.60784375,"end":16127.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16127.60346875,"end":16127.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16127.99159375,"end":16128.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16128.008468750002,"end":16128.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16128.02534375,"end":16129.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16129.965968750003,"end":16133.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16134.184718750003,"end":16137.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16137.74534375,"end":16140.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16140.52971875,"end":16140.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16141.238468750002,"end":16149.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16149.405968750001,"end":16150.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16150.637843750003,"end":16150.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16151.19471875,"end":16152.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16152.780968750001,"end":16152.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16152.797843750002,"end":16154.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16154.755343750003,"end":16157.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16158.164093750001,"end":16158.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16158.315968750001,"end":16162.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16162.821593750003,"end":16165.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16165.79159375,"end":16166.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16165.99409375,"end":16167.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16167.782843750003,"end":16172.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16172.659718750001,"end":16172.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16172.76096875,"end":16172.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16172.96346875,"end":16172.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16172.997218750003,"end":16174.110968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16174.39784375,"end":16182.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16182.51471875,"end":16182.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16184.657843750003,"end":16185.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16186.817843750003,"end":16188.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16189.31534375,"end":16190.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16190.90159375,"end":16204.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16205.24534375,"end":16206.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16206.966593750003,"end":16208.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16209.312218750001,"end":16220.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16218.57659375,"end":16218.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16222.12034375,"end":16225.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16225.765343750001,"end":16234.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16234.439093750003,"end":16235.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16238.387843750003,"end":16239.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16240.36221875,"end":16240.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16241.340968750003,"end":16243.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16244.614718750003,"end":16246.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16246.487843750001,"end":16246.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16246.69034375,"end":16247.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16247.618468750003,"end":16248.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16248.765968750002,"end":16250.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16250.95971875,"end":16260.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16260.173468750003,"end":16272.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16273.99409375,"end":16275.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16275.614093750002,"end":16277.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16277.453468750002,"end":16279.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16280.423468750003,"end":16280.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16281.11534375,"end":16282.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16282.27971875,"end":16282.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16282.65096875,"end":16283.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16284.28784375,"end":16286.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16286.414093750001,"end":16286.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16286.802218750003,"end":16287.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16287.76409375,"end":16288.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16288.844093750002,"end":16311.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16311.405968750001,"end":16313.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16313.700968750003,"end":16313.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16313.97096875,"end":16325.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16325.192843750003,"end":16325.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16325.83409375,"end":16326.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16326.070343750001,"end":16326.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16326.120968750001,"end":16327.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16328.129093750002,"end":16329.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16329.293468750002,"end":16330.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16330.54221875,"end":16334.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16337.309093750002,"end":16340.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16343.55284375,"end":16347.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16347.585968750001,"end":16354.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16354.63971875,"end":16355.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16358.16659375,"end":16359.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16359.21284375,"end":16359.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16359.22971875,"end":16387.124093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16387.242218749998,"end":16406.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16406.614718750003,"end":16407.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16406.834093750003,"end":16417.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16415.45721875,"end":16416.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16417.600343750004,"end":16448.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16449.19034375,"end":16456.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16456.328468749998,"end":16460.749718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16456.56471875,"end":16456.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16456.733468749997,"end":16458.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16460.091593750003,"end":16460.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16460.969093749998,"end":16461.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16461.036593750003,"end":16462.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16462.77471875,"end":16477.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16477.43909375,"end":16482.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16482.31596875,"end":16482.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16482.653468750003,"end":16486.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16486.50096875,"end":16486.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16486.53471875,"end":16486.889093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16487.209718750004,"end":16501.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16501.958468750003,"end":16518.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16518.749093749997,"end":16518.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16518.81659375,"end":16519.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16519.137218750002,"end":16529.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16528.671593749998,"end":16532.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16530.780968749998,"end":16531.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16531.827218749997,"end":16534.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16534.223468750002,"end":16563.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16563.788468749997,"end":16598.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16598.31471875,"end":16604.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16603.03971875,"end":16605.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16604.710343749997,"end":16611.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16611.47721875,"end":16623.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16620.65721875,"end":16623.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16624.403468750003,"end":16628.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16624.57221875,"end":16624.639718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16628.06534375,"end":16631.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16631.153468750003,"end":16632.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16632.04784375,"end":16637.093468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16637.599718750003,"end":16641.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16642.037843750004,"end":16644.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16644.11346875,"end":16644.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16644.38346875,"end":16645.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16645.716593750003,"end":16647.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16646.695343749998,"end":16647.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16647.97784375,"end":16686.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16658.94659375,"end":16660.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16686.419093750003,"end":16686.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16686.638468750003,"end":16704.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16692.27471875,"end":16692.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16692.49409375,"end":16692.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16697.100968749997,"end":16697.303468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16697.303468750004,"end":16697.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16705.217843749997,"end":16709.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16709.639093750004,"end":16731.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16721.637218750002,"end":16721.670968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16721.890343749998,"end":16721.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16731.62721875,"end":16754.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16732.200968750003,"end":16732.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16743.372218750003,"end":16743.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16752.164093749998,"end":16753.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16754.172218749998,"end":16754.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16754.20596875,"end":16754.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16754.661593750003,"end":16761.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16760.39909375,"end":16764.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16764.22971875,"end":16765.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16765.37721875,"end":16766.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16767.70596875,"end":16770.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16769.49471875,"end":16769.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16770.270968750003,"end":16771.148468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16770.996593750002,"end":16802.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16771.148468749998,"end":16771.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16802.687843749998,"end":16853.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16831.42596875,"end":16831.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16853.599718750003,"end":16858.679093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16858.84784375,"end":16862.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16862.442218750002,"end":16892.648468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16893.036593750003,"end":16910.772218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16910.974718750003,"end":16911.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16911.109718749998,"end":16915.935968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16913.286593750003,"end":16913.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16916.239718750003,"end":16918.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16916.256593750004,"end":16916.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16918.31534375,"end":16918.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16918.82159375,"end":16919.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16919.935343750003,"end":16926.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16920.22221875,"end":16920.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16921.859093749998,"end":16922.280968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16922.73659375,"end":16925.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16925.959718750004,"end":16941.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16941.94034375,"end":16945.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16945.53471875,"end":16946.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16946.90159375,"end":16947.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16947.880343750003,"end":16949.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16949.93909375,"end":16953.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16953.786593750003,"end":16953.803468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16953.820343749998,"end":16954.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16953.887843750003,"end":16972.045343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16972.07909375,"end":16972.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16972.230968750002,"end":16997.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16997.256593750004,"end":17000.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17002.69034375,"end":17004.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17005.96409375,"end":17008.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17009.153468750003,"end":17009.710343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17010.334718750004,"end":17014.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17016.257843749998,"end":17021.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17021.826593750004,"end":17040.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17041.637843750003,"end":17044.844093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17062.25909375,"end":17062.950968750003}],"whisperx":[{"start":1400.999,"end":1410.564,"text":"報告委員會出席委員人數11人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會好現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1412.543,"end":1437.585,"text":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議議事錄時間115年1月21日星期三9時1分至17時38分1月22日星期四9時1分至18時58分地點請顯露801會議室出席委員陳委員昭之等15人列席委員羅委員美玲等6人列席官員衛生福利部政務次長呂健德等相關人員主席劉兆吉委員建國"},{"start":1438.466,"end":1452.671,"text":"報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項審查及繼續審查身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案等37案修正動議22案決議一身心障礙者權益保障法"},{"start":1453.371,"end":1478.24,"text":"部分條文修正草案等37案審查完均內容如審查結果並按你據審查報告提報院會討論院會討論時由劉兆吉委員建國補充說明須交黨團協商二本法案條次條文中援引條次及法制用語調整授權議事人員整理相關立法說明授權行政單位提供審查結果照行政院提案通過第15條第38條第40條第42條第43條第46條第51條"},{"start":1482.822,"end":1485.424,"text":"第52條之二第54條第57條第58條第58條之一第61條第63條第63條之二至第63條之六第74條第76條至第80條第86條第88條第89條第89條之一第89條之二第90條第94條及第98條條文"},{"start":1503.32,"end":1521.765,"text":"第二條照行政院提案修正通過第三條及第四條照委員林月晴等十八人提案修正通過第十條照行政院提案修正通過第十條之一照委員林月晴等三人所提修正動議修正通過第十條之二照委員林月晴黃秀芳陳盈范雲賴慧媛等五人所提修正動議修正通過"},{"start":1522.685,"end":1547.017,"text":"第11條縱採各委員提案及所提修正動議修正通過第18條照台灣民眾黨黨團及委員林月琴等18人提案修正通過第20條照委員林月琴等3人所提修正動議修正通過第21條照行政院提案修正通過第22條照委員林月琴等3人所提修正動議修正通過第26條照行政院提案修正通過第27條照委員范雲等19人提案修正通過"},{"start":1547.637,"end":1573.519,"text":"第28條照台灣民眾黨黨團委員郭玉琴等18人及委員范雲等19人提案修正通過第30條之一照台灣民眾黨黨團提案通過第30條之二照台灣民眾黨黨團及委員郭玉琴等18人提案修正通過第31條照委員郭玉琴等18人提案通過第32條照委員劉建國等3人所提修正動議通過第39條之一照委員郭玉琴等18人提案修正通過"},{"start":1574.139,"end":1582.98,"text":"第44條 照委員林月琴等18人提案修正通過第50條 照委員林月琴等18人提案及委員劉建國等3人所提修正動議修正通過"},{"start":1585.557,"end":1612.366,"text":"第50條之一 照委員林月琴等三人所提修正動議及委員劉建國等三人所提修正動議通過第52條 照委員劉建國等三人所提修正動議修正通過第52條之一 照行政院提案修正通過第59條 照委員林月琴等18人提案修正通過第63條之一 照行政院提案及委員林月琴等18人提案修正通過第63條之七 照行政院提案及委員王玉敏等17人提案修正通過第84條 照委員劉建國"},{"start":1614.787,"end":1615.027,"text":"不予增訂"},{"start":1638.827,"end":1660.785,"text":"委員王衛明等17人及委員萬美玲等17人提案第38條之二條文委員王宏威等20人委員柯志恩等18人委員洪孟凱等18人及委員林倩琦等19人提案第40條之一條文委員林月琴等18人提案第60條之二及第71條之二條文委員羅廷輝等16人及委員廖偉翔等19人提案第7章之一章名第83條之一至第83條之九條文"},{"start":1663.727,"end":1674.31,"text":"委員羅廷輝等16年提案第7章之2章名第84條之1至第84條之13第85條之1第7章之3章名第85條之2第7章之5章名第85條之9至第85條之17第7章之6章名第85條之18至第85條之23第7章之7章名第85條之24至第85條之37第7章之8章名及第85條之38"},{"start":1691.374,"end":1719.271,"text":"至第八十五條之四十四條文台灣民眾黨黨團委員郭玉琴等十八人及委員范雲等十九人提案第八十四條之一條文委員羅廷瑞等十六人提案第七章之四章名及委員廖偉祥等十九人提案第七章之二章名委員羅廷瑞等十六人提案第八十五條之三及委員廖偉祥等十九人提案第八十五條之十條文委員羅廷瑞等十六人提案第八十五條之四及委員廖偉祥等十九人提案第八十五條之十一條文"},{"start":1720.071,"end":1727.977,"text":"委員羅廷惠等16人提案第85條之5及委員廖偉祥等19人提案第85條之12條文委員羅廷惠等16人提案第85條之6及委員廖偉祥等19人提案第85條之13條文委員羅廷惠等16人提案第85條之7及委員廖偉祥等19人提案第85條之14條文委員羅廷惠等16人提案第85條之8及委員廖偉祥等19人提案第85條之15條文保留條文"},{"start":1747.692,"end":1771.055,"text":"行政院提案第七條第十六條第七十一條第一百條之一第一百條第一百零七條及其對應條文台灣民眾黨黨團委員郭玉琴等十八人委員范雲等十九人及委員吳立華等十八人提案第五條條文委員范雲等十七人委員羅廷輝等十六人委員廖偉祥等十九人委員王玉明等十七人及委員萬美玲等十七人提案第四章之一章名"},{"start":1772.616,"end":1786.929,"text":"委員范雲等17人委員羅廷輝等16人委員廖偉祥等19人委員王玉敏等17人及委員萬美玲等17人提案第47條之1條文委員范雲等17人委員羅廷輝等16人及委員廖偉祥等19人提案第47條之2條文"},{"start":1788.971,"end":1804.718,"text":"委員范瑩等17人委員羅廷威等16人及委員廖偉祥等19人提案第47條之3委員王玉明等17人及委員萬美玲等17人提案第47條之2條文委員羅廷威等16人及委員廖偉祥等19人提案第47條之4委員王玉明等17人與委員萬美玲等17人提案第47條之3條文委員羅廷威等16人及委員廖偉祥等19人提案第47條之5條文"},{"start":1816.664,"end":1824.546,"text":"委員羅廷威等16人及委員廖偉祥等19人提案第47條之6委員王一鳴等17人及委員萬美玲等17人提案第47條之4條文委員范雲等17人提案第47條之4委員羅廷威等16人及委員廖偉祥等19人提案第47條之7台灣民眾黨黨團提案第50條之2委員王一鳴等17人與委員萬美玲等17人提案第47條之5條文"},{"start":1843.052,"end":1859.784,"text":"委員范雲等17人委員羅廷威等16人委員廖偉翔等19人委員王玉明等17人及委員萬美玲等17人提案第4章之2章明委員范雲等17人提案第47條之5委員羅廷威等16人與委員廖偉翔等19人提案第47條之8台灣民眾黨黨團提案第50條之3委員郭玉琴等18人及委員范雲等19人提案第50條之2"},{"start":1868.47,"end":1892.884,"text":"委員王玉明等17人及委員萬美玲等17人提案第47條之6條文委員范雲等17人提案第47條之6委員羅廷慧等16人與委員廖偉翔等19人提案第47條之9委員王玉明等17人與委員萬美玲等17人提案第47條之7條文委員陳冠廷等20人委員劉建國等17人委員蔡奕宇等16人委員郭玉琴等18人"},{"start":1893.844,"end":1905.233,"text":"委員何欣淳等17人委員廖偉祥等19人委員林月琴等18人委員范雲等19人委員吳立華等18人委員盧聖怡等16人及委員張雅玲等23人提案第53條條文委員劉建國等17人提案第100條條文"},{"start":1910.117,"end":1932.079,"text":"保留之修正動議委員盧憲義等三人所提之第七條第五十三條及第七十一條條文委員林月琴王振旭劉建國武立華等四人所提之第五條及第七條條文委員林月琴等三人所提之第十六條條文委員劉建國等三人所提之部分條文委員王振旭劉建國黃秀芳張雅玲等四人所提之第十六條條文"},{"start":1933.16,"end":1946.682,"text":"委員林月琴黃秀芳陳盈范雲賴會員等5人所提之第16條條文委員盧聖義等3人所提之第16條及第16條之一條文委員林月琴等3人所提之第71條第4項條文通過附帶決議38項宣讀完畢請問委員會上次議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處"},{"start":1962.06,"end":1986.34,"text":"好那議事錄確定本日的會議成為第一邀請衛福衛生福利部就春節急診的醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為即假日及連續假日急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向進行專題報告並被質詢那第二"},{"start":1989.822,"end":2017.252,"text":"審查委員黨團分別擬據國民年金法部分條文的修正草案等19案以上專案報告及討論事項採綜合詢答討論事項僅詢答那現在介紹在場委員及列席官員由我們陳昭資委員林月琴委員王振旭委員"},{"start":2019.383,"end":2046.046,"text":"還有鍾嘉斌委員那在場官員有衛生福利部部長石崇良 石部長還有醫事司司長劉月平司長社會保險司參事代理社會保險司司長張玉璇 張司長還有中央健康保險署署長陳亮瑜"},{"start":2049.491,"end":2078.441,"text":"行政院主計總處基金預算處專門委員吳婉玉公務預算處專門委員陳淑萍財政部國庫署專門委員羅瑞宏賦稅署專門委員蔡孟淑還有這個稽查洪正義"},{"start":2082.283,"end":2097.196,"text":"勞動部勞工保險局副局長李靖韻勞工保險局國民年金組組長烏偉陽農業部農民輔導司檢任繼政王東良法務部參事汪南鈞"},{"start":2110.103,"end":2127.814,"text":"援助民族委員會社會福利處副處長洪玲接著請提案委員說明提案要旨每位委員兩分鐘那請陳昭資委員代表台灣民眾黨黨團說明"},{"start":2133.47,"end":2142.976,"text":"主席各位同仁本案這個台灣民眾黨黨團針對國民年金法的第15條跟第50條有關配偶連帶繳納保險費及裁罰規定提出制度上是必要的檢討跟修正憲法法令在釋字第696號已經很明確的指出如果僅僅因為有沒有婚姻關係就讓人民承受較重的這個經濟負擔甚至加諸額外的這個不利益這樣的差別在於等同是對婚姻的懲罰是違反憲法保障婚姻家庭制度的本"},{"start":2161.028,"end":2165.632,"text":"這個本意故婚姻關係之有無所形成之差別待遇是否違反憲法第7條的原則應該受到比較嚴格的一個審查但是我們看到國民年金法裡面在第15條的規定只有婚姻關係夫妻之間就互付連帶繳納這個責任進一步在第50條還有裁罰的規定反過來說如果沒有婚姻關係就不會承擔同樣的這個法律後果"},{"start":2183.248,"end":2187.912,"text":"那這樣的差別並不是基於他的所得或實際能力而是單純因為設計上已經引發懲罰婚姻的這個爭議換句話說這個制度在無意之間讓進入婚姻關係的人反而負擔更高的法律風險跟經濟壓力那臺灣民眾黨認為這是值得公部門重新再檢討的問題所以也在附屬預算跟年度預算上有多次提出檢討必要那整個從社會發展來看現在家庭的型態跟角色的分工也都不一樣了近十年的女性的勞參率大概也維持在五成以上"},{"start":2213.152,"end":2219.574,"text":"社會對於經濟責任跟保險義務也在越來越強調個人的責任跟個人的保障在這樣背景上繼續以配偶的身份作為連帶責任的裁罰依據已經逐漸跟當前強調的性平跟個人自主的政策產生落差因此本黨團在這屆立法院的第二會議就率先提出國民年金法修法草案希望能夠讓保險責任回歸到個人的本身避免國家制度在沒有正當理由的情況下對婚姻關係"},{"start":2241.021,"end":2247.388,"text":"加諸額外的不利益也讓整體制度更符合憲法平等原則跟社會的現實好 以上說明 謝謝好 謝謝陳昭之委員說明接下來請鍾嘉斌委員代表民進黨黨團說明"},{"start":2264.807,"end":2282.414,"text":"民主聯盟黨團有鑒於財政收支分法修改後我們國民年金法當中的第36條就應該予以調整根據憲法第10章中央與地方制分權第107條明定財政是由中央來主導"},{"start":2283.374,"end":2301.049,"text":"然而108條規定有關於社會福利等各種的社會救助是由中央立法或交由地方來執行因此我們很清楚財化法本應該是由中央來立法做分配然而在去年財化法接連遭到"},{"start":2302.165,"end":2326.034,"text":"一個亂財政的修法那麼造成中央跟地方的財政失衡然而這是國會多數通過的那麼基於權責一致當國家的收入已經大幅的交給地方了那麼根據憲法中央跟地方分權的精神地方就應該來負擔原本由中央在國民年金法舉例來說"},{"start":2327.955,"end":2346.891,"text":"36條他就是由中央來負擔但是呢在經過這樣的修法之後我們認為有必要針對第36條將地方的財政分為五級其中第一級的部分對於國民年金的負擔應該各付一半第二三級的部分至少地方要負擔30%財力相對較弱的第四級跟第五級負擔15%這樣子才能夠落實錢權一致"},{"start":2354.477,"end":2382.833,"text":"避免肥地方受中央而國民年金法照顧的都是我們的人民最弱勢的人民需要由中央跟地方共同協力來照顧因此我們提出的修法以36條為核心將原本由中央負擔全部國民年金負擔的這樣的一個條文轉化為中央跟地方共同來承擔我們還是要再強調一次中央民國憲法當中第十章中央跟地方之分權是牢不可破"},{"start":2383.453,"end":2393.2,"text":"然而在財化法經過修改之後我們認為有必要進一步的去規範地方跟中央在國民福利社會安全制度上應有之責任以上好謝謝鍾嘉賓委員說明接下來請衛福部石部長就本日會議議程專案專題報告及討論事項並案報告及說明時間10分鐘"},{"start":2415.681,"end":2435.127,"text":"主席還有各位委員那麼今天本部呢呈邀列席來報告有關於春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制的現況進行作為還有假日跟連續假日期間的急重症分級醫療政策的執行成效改進方向那麼以及有"},{"start":2436.847,"end":2465.053,"text":"何新存委員等19案有關國民年金部分條文修正草案來提出這個書面報告那麼我請口頭的部分來就補充那首先的是有關於這個春節的急診的醫療人力的調度與協調機制那麼有介於今年的春節的長假那麼高達9天那同時也接近了在去年"},{"start":2466.274,"end":2487.686,"text":"這個過年期間農曆過年期間的急診用色的問題所以我們本部呢在今年就提早這個啟動因應的相關措施那麼你訂了自1月31號到3月1號期間那麼有所謂的春節整備專案那麼這個方案裡頭主要有四個重點"},{"start":2488.366,"end":2497.295,"text":"第一個就是提早因應我們已經協調各個衛生局以及地方政府建設的急診的監測指標強化持續性的監測及時的因應"},{"start":2504.902,"end":2533.461,"text":"調度那麼同時呢也請藥商提高了有關於季節性傳染病藥品的安全庫存跟供應量那第二點呢是在患者分流的部分那麼我們在1月20號開始那麼就放寬了這個流感抗病毒藥物的使用規定來降低呢這個可能性可能的這個季節流感的高峰那麼另外也已經宣布在"},{"start":2535.342,"end":2544.347,"text":"農曆春節初一、初二、初三強化所有的急救責任醫院來開設傳染病特別門診第三點是有關擴充春節的醫療量能"},{"start":2549.89,"end":2564.643,"text":"那麼我們健保署也已經在1月23號公告在今年的農曆春節期間的加成獎勵方案那麼包含從這9日當中那麼提供"},{"start":2565.843,"end":2583.109,"text":"開診服務的這個門診那麼他的診察費跟他的藥事服務費還有包含這個藥局的服務呢那麼都加成從30%到100%不等那麼另外在醫院的部分的"},{"start":2583.809,"end":2601.977,"text":"住院診查或者是急診的診查還有護理跟藥事費用都加成百分之百那麼目前正在調查各醫院的還有各急診診所的藥局的開診情形那麼預計會在下週"},{"start":2605.958,"end":2632.967,"text":"公布所有的開診訊息未來民眾就可以在全民健保的行動快意通裡面會有一個春節院所的服務查詢專區就可以查詢到在過年期間的各醫療院所的開診時段這個是有關於擴大醫療量能的部分總共會投入到16億來"},{"start":2634.528,"end":2653.457,"text":"作為這個獎勵的費用那麼讓民眾可以得到必要的醫療服務那最後呢就是強化這個區域的聯防那麼也透過我們中央地方政府跟醫療院所都這個建立的這個聯繫的平台那麼對於在整個過年期間來確保這個醫療網的運作可以這個及時發揮這個調度的作用"},{"start":2660,"end":2673.732,"text":"那麼此外呢在尋常的假日或者是連續假期期間的急重症分流的情形那有鑑於呢在這個假日的期間特別是在這個週日那麼"},{"start":2676.341,"end":2688.308,"text":"這個基層的開診率呢那麼比較低大概在15%左右那但是民眾呢仍然有一些就醫的需要那因此我們在去年的這個11月2號那麼開辦了"},{"start":2691.85,"end":2709.841,"text":"這UCC也就是假日的輕急症中心主要的服務對象就是以急但是不重的病人為主那從開辦至今呢那麼已經服務量也有明顯的提升到53%的增加那又以這個台南地區"},{"start":2710.762,"end":2728.748,"text":"那麼幾乎在每一個假日有近200人的就診那其中也有近一半是骨外科的病人表示卻有這樣的需求所以我們會持續的來精進那麼此外對於有一些需要住院治療靜脈抗生素"},{"start":2731.229,"end":2753.144,"text":"的部分我們也在去年8月開始推動了所謂OPAT門診靜脈抗生素治療方案那麼讓這民眾可以選擇那麼以到每日到門診注射的方式來減少這個住院的需求提升病人的可靜性跟方便性那麼"},{"start":2755.225,"end":2766.83,"text":"執行迄今已經有182家的醫療院所包含醫院跟診所協助加入這個方案執行的成效目前已經也超過3600人我們會持續的來推動"},{"start":2770.711,"end":2792.502,"text":"按照這樣的這個輕急症分流的方式落實分級醫療至於各位委員所關心的國保的給付調整的部分那麼國民年金那麼自97年開辦那麼今年已經邁入第18年那麼中間呢那麼涵蓋了五項的保險給付跟三項的津貼給付"},{"start":2793.522,"end":2807.879,"text":"那麼據統計到去年值納保人數是286萬餘人各項幾戶的勤領人數大概有超過200萬餘人那但是有鑑於近年的這個"},{"start":2809.401,"end":2823.74,"text":"物價還有生活水平的這個變動那麼我們在相關的這個給付的基本數額的部分那麼也多年未經調整那因此呢行政院也擬定了相關的"},{"start":2824.941,"end":2848.545,"text":"調整方案那麼送請大院審查那因為這個可能是時間的關係因為上個禮拜我們才送到大院所以不及排入於今天的議程希望未來能夠併案審查那本次行政院版本的國民年金部分條文的修正草案有幾個重點那麼第一個呢就是調高國保給付的"},{"start":2849.105,"end":2878.303,"text":"基本數額每人每月至少調升至五千元那麼身心障礙民眾可以調高到六千七百一十五元那麼第二呢是放寬排富的標準那麼比照這個這個老農津貼的方式那麼同時刪除了民眾唯一自住房屋的扣除額的上限那麼第三呢我們也在行政院版本裡面也新增了"},{"start":2878.843,"end":2906.438,"text":"那麼每兩年那麼依據這個CPI的變動如果達3%以上就進行調整基本數額中的檢討機制來及時反映物價至於呢剛剛有委員關心的強制配偶代繳保險費的相關罰款規定在行政院版本當中也予以刪除以彰顯平等原則那我想這個行政院的版本也大概含納了"},{"start":2908.179,"end":2929.632,"text":"委員所提的版本的修正條文特別是在放寬排附規定的部分我們目前看到其他委員的版本所無但是我們認為這個是很重要的一個條文所以希望能夠在未來審查的時候"},{"start":2931.052,"end":2950.196,"text":"一併同行政院的版本共同修訂那麼討論那麼建立起國民年金與時俱進的彈性制度提升國保民眾的基本經濟安全的保障那以上報告再請各位委員指教 謝謝好 謝謝石部長報告"},{"start":2958.14,"end":2974.172,"text":"那有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入記錄刊登公報那現在開始詢答做以下宣告第一本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4分鐘那10點半截止發言登記"},{"start":2975.416,"end":2990.705,"text":"三 委員如有書面質詢 請於散會前提出 預期不受理四 暫定10點半 休息10分鐘五 本日不處理臨時提案現在請登記第一位委員陳昭智委員發言謝謝主席 有請部長請時部長"},{"start":3002.146,"end":3020.019,"text":"陳委員早好 副長謝謝你們這個國民連改的那個接受民眾黨團建議的第15跟50項的修改 謝謝那最近澄清醫院也發生了急診暴力那有酒醉的這個民眾他把護理師打到腦震盪所以造成很多民眾跟這個醫療人員他們都非常的憤怒"},{"start":3020.439,"end":3042.988,"text":"那有人提出這樣的主張說在醫院施暴或毆打醫護人員應該要停用健保卡一年全額自費但是部長我知道就是說在全面停卡會涉及憲法上的一個健康權跟比例原則但是我還是要請教衛福部在不能停卡的一個前提下有沒有辦法讓施暴者付出實質代價的一個制度上的設計呢"},{"start":3044.742,"end":3071.042,"text":"跟委員報告我想對於不管在任何場域任何的情境之下那麼我們對於這個暴力行為一定是嚴厲的譴責啦那特別是在醫療這種救人的場域更不應該那麼過去呢這個在103年你有在做一些制度上的設計嗎制度上我們有很多的措施啦那麼剛剛提到的這個"},{"start":3073.104,"end":3082.415,"text":"這個用健保的方式因為健保畢竟它是以這個保障這個生命的安全做最重要的基本再請問下面幾個問題就是您一併考慮就是說醫護人員是否有據診"},{"start":3087.641,"end":3107.776,"text":"就是說拒絕這個診療或終止就暫停這個醫療的空間施暴者除了刑責他本身就要負刑責那是否有健保給付上的一個譬如說加重負擔是否研議對特定惡意的行為人設計部分負擔的加成或指定就醫流程等等這個配套有沒有往這個方向去思考"},{"start":3109.117,"end":3138.18,"text":"我想我們有在這個擬定一些相關的指引那麼所有在醫療過程當中還是以安全最重要所以這個剛剛說到的據診那麼不是很恰當但是呢保護自身醫護人員自身的安全還是應該優先考慮如果有這種這個暴力甚至危害到安全的情況應該先處理安全的情形那麼自身的保護還是最重要的"},{"start":3138.56,"end":3166.517,"text":"當然我這張投屏的標題說能不能註記當然我也覺得註記是當然這個也要考慮然後指定就醫流程其實有點像開黃燈就是說我們知道他就是有可能有暴力傾向但是你在醫學倫理上又不能不照顧部長這個健保署統計去年11月到今天全國UCC每天看診的人數大概只有350人還不及一間急救責任醫院他一日的看診人數"},{"start":3168.078,"end":3195.3,"text":"甚至有好多天是不到300人那其中台北市很嚴重每個月只有40個人次那台北有三個點那其中兩個點還蠻靠近的那陳署長您也說過說UCC是由健保署來進行方案的規劃那提供經費支持那但是選點是由地方衛生局來做的那當地的衛生局也許是更清楚醫療的量能那但是目前的健保署的資料統計還是顯示整個量能是很不一的"},{"start":3196.061,"end":3222.311,"text":"那陳署長你也說過說開始有設計說4月初預計要針對這些選點再重新做個盤點因為設立之初的時候是尊重各地衛生局他來選擇這個地點但並沒有預設說要多少人數就醫人數所以我下面就請教部長跟署長以目前累積的大概我的所編資料4800的人次的累積使用量請問UCC是否已經達到避免民眾都往急診衝的這個政策目標呢"},{"start":3224.412,"end":3249.803,"text":"我想這個階段是剛剛如同委員所提的我們初始的階段是搭配這個跟衛生局討論那麼由衛生局去指定這個點那麼一共有六都開始試辦未來可能還會擴大到其他縣市有這個需要的話那六都共選定了13個處所我們可以看到有些處所很成功譬如說在台南的點它的這個"},{"start":3250.943,"end":3278.894,"text":"這個一天的這個就診量將近200人那也可以看到他他鄰近的像成大醫院集美醫院的急診輕症的人數也有下降像這樣的點還有服務的方式就很成功那但是像台北市像您指教的台北市看起來三個點那麼他相對於台北市的整個就醫的量是大的那麼以這三個點提供到的這個分流的機制確實有限"},{"start":3279.514,"end":3299.866,"text":"所以我們未來會去檢討我想再提醒一點說雖然說選點是尊重這個地方面具但這個是一個全國性的健保政策那如果說完全沒有中央的最低標準沒有使用量的門檻來看的話也沒有退場機制那這樣有點像地方自治有點像中方政府就放手不管了有點就是說請"},{"start":3301.327,"end":3325.208,"text":"我們會跟地方衛生局討論醫療改革基金會也非常重視他們提出一個很關鍵的提醒他不說制度本身沒有錯而是改變的順序錯了醫改會要指出很多國家UCC的成功是因為比急診快比急診便宜但是在台灣民眾之所以加熱還是跑大醫院的急診近六成這是他們的數字近六成是因為不知道哪裡有診所可看病"},{"start":3326.589,"end":3344.484,"text":"26%是無法判斷病情的這個嚴重度那健保署常說台灣有推動了20多年的這個嘉義群計畫應該能夠在基層為民眾的健康把關但是醫改會也曾經用神秘客的方式抽樣六都嘉義群整種的電話諮詢發現這是他們的調查數字96%的人無法回答哪邊可以看門診在假日的時候"},{"start":3351.269,"end":3364.525,"text":"不到25%可以提供任何衛教指導一聽到發燒大概有一半以上都直接接你去大醫院急診那這樣的家喻群真的有能力來承接輕的急症分流的角色嗎這是他們的統計數字"},{"start":3367.088,"end":3382.502,"text":"所以部長您是第一次聽還是就是讓您參考畢竟他們也做了一些方法學去了解那一改會有指出UCC成功的關鍵不是只有設點而是事前能不能有人幫民眾做判斷那一改會執行長林執行長也說"},{"start":3383.963,"end":3409.31,"text":"世界各國都知道一般人是很難一般人很難為自己做這個疾病的嚴重度判斷所以正在民眾立場來看設計配套提供各式各樣的諮詢的一個引導是很重要我們台灣的UCC其實是仿效日本可是部長您知道這件事嗎日本的UCC有它明確的收治條件而且很重要的它非常重視事前的諮詢所以它有不同年齡群都各有諮詢專線這樣可以免跑一趟就是說"},{"start":3413.111,"end":3427.379,"text":"就避免白跑一趟嘛會不會到將來有打算要規劃類似的一個諮詢系統嗎跟文說明第一個對那個加一計畫裡面確實我們有call center的設計這個我們都有一些這個經費的支持那"},{"start":3430.12,"end":3457.886,"text":"能不能夠提高他的這個功能讓他因為這個都是老病人我們現在納入加一計畫大概已經超過600萬人600萬人如果能夠把這個機制強化我覺得這個是有幫忙這個我們會來檢討那第二個呢就是對民眾的就醫的指引的建立我們也會去建立起來未來會上線那至於說這個看診的資訊像我們今年的春節期間我們就會有一個專區"},{"start":3459.106,"end":3475.3,"text":"看診的資訊這九天哪裡可以看那讓他很好搜尋那麼未來我們也會去強化在假日期間他可以看診所以我們會去鼓勵這個基層開診那哪裡可以看我們會再多多監討那我們現在就回到UCC的"},{"start":3476.741,"end":3493.13,"text":"定位究竟是在民眾自行判斷後前往的一個選項呢還是應該建立在專業判斷跟轉介系統之後的服務這是看你覺得如果沒有前端的判斷跟指引那UCC再多設幾個點都不會改變民眾直接跑急診這種行為所以這個台北市醫師職業工會有提出幾項建議那請部長跟署理這邊參考"},{"start":3500.034,"end":3502.856,"text":"對於現存UCC的應該設置的預期達成目標值如果你經過嘗試還是沒有辦法達成的話應該及時退場止損或是另外尋求其他的這個長指這是他們第一點的建議第二個政府應該考慮設置這個院前的諮詢管道讓民眾可以透過線上或是說電話諮詢剛剛部長有提到是在平台上嗎"},{"start":3523.227,"end":3539.444,"text":"至少他的問題可能適合你可能適合在UCC獲得結束因此不必直接往這個急診去你要讓他知道嘛讓他放心那第三個如果UCC是政府這個應變災難及重大傷患的一個韌性醫療的一環假設你把他列在這樣的一環那應該考慮將來是不是把他列入這個人員都要接受定期的訓練"},{"start":3544.409,"end":3560.931,"text":"之列並且以社區急救站這樣的概念的標準來打造就是涉及你對UCC的這個定位那我們必須再談一件事就是說那個希望政府能夠正視UCC跟醫院急診之間的巨大資源的鴻溝部長您知道我這句話的意思嗎"},{"start":3562.172,"end":3587.972,"text":"現在我看署長在點頭這三倍以上的經費差異可以看作說是醫院醫護醫療人員 醫護人員勞動力受到高度的壓榨為什麼是說三倍你在UCC所規範的薪資一天光是人事費大概是12萬元那全國13座你講的是大概156萬元那我們扣掉民眾有部分負擔的部分大概也要支出150萬可是這些人如果一天350人他都往急診去的時候醫學中心急診室"},{"start":3588.912,"end":3593.497,"text":"健保只支出30到50萬就是這一塊是150萬但是如果他們都往急診區他是50萬所以這個醫院的醫療人員他們就覺得他們事實上是在過去勞動力的受到壓榨的程度就從你做參考"},{"start":3604.587,"end":3629.486,"text":"所以部長就是涉及您對UCC的定位還有目前能夠做改進那定位之後當然你就有目標還有這個大家提供的意見怎麼樣讓UCC如果你要繼續讓它存在然後也有清楚的定位目標是應該讓民眾有能夠有一個指引讓它不然大家還是繼續往那邊衝啊因為現在現在平均的量比一家一家醫院的一天的量都還不足"},{"start":3630.767,"end":3652.542,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛提到的有一個UCC的點一次假日可以進200人次這個已經高過有一些地區醫院的量所以他看你怎麼去宣導跟設計至於剛剛你一直在強調的這個院前諮詢管道這我們會去思考這個我們會有一些就醫指引"},{"start":3652.742,"end":3668.502,"text":"那甚至未來搭配AI的方式我們像現在健保也開始克服第一線是AI克服然後後線才是真人克服那這樣的設計也許搭配我們的指引未來的這個就醫指引再搭配AI的協助"},{"start":3670.224,"end":3689.333,"text":"可以一起來思考那麼這個所謂的院前這個諮詢的管道那至於UCC的定位那麼我剛剛提到我們一直在強調這個分級醫療可是在假日的時候或連續假日的時候很明顯的因為這個基層的醫師要休息這個是"},{"start":3691.054,"end":3712.685,"text":"這個有必要的所以呢讓假日的時候不會說我們平常分級醫療假日不分級醫療通通到醫院去所以UCC是要扮演這樣的角色至於到目前的績效來講確實有需要再提升的地方我們會滾動式的來修正謝謝部長跟署長因為這是美意啦我們就是要繼續進步然後這個進行盤整了解民眾的需要好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":3718.23,"end":3733.18,"text":"謝謝陳昭芝委員發言接下來請林月琴委員發言主席麻煩我們的石部長請石部長"},{"start":3739.144,"end":3762.502,"text":"今天事實上是本會期的最後一次質詢部長那我總共有三個問題要請教首先是關於我們的那個春節的醫療的一個問題也就是部長應該知道過去我一直在強調急診要解決擁塞就必須要分流首先要感謝你願意去做採納設置了我們的假日及國定假日"},{"start":3763.082,"end":3787.182,"text":"清急症中心我肯認這個政策方向也因為分流能降低急診跟第一線的負擔不過上週也跟你一起有到桃園的UCC視察的時候你有提到春節會有醫護人員的加成補助方案那我必須替第一線的我們的醫護人員來問清楚一件事情春節加成補助方案有幾成會給第一線的醫護人員"},{"start":3788.17,"end":3808.579,"text":"這次我們在公告我們1月23號已經正式公告這個這個獎勵方案那上面已經明訂這個八成要發給出勤的相關人員好那部長你就是在想問那這筆錢實際上會怎麼發放還是直接進到第一線的醫護人員的口袋裡還是先撥給醫院再由醫院自行處理"},{"start":3809.49,"end":3829.072,"text":"還是由醫院去分配啦但是八成一定是給相關的出勤人員為什麼我要問這個問題因為我最近接獲非常多醫護人員的反應跟陳情發現衛福部過去推很多獎勵計畫要獎勵我們的醫護人員可是加班還是不管是加班還是上夜班後"},{"start":3830.435,"end":3850.047,"text":"卻發現那個錢 遲遲事實上是沒有下來的這是醫院內部他們給我的一個資料也就很明確跟部長講你一定知道夜班護理人員直接獎勵計畫這個計畫就是衛福部先把錢給醫院然後再由醫院分配結果醫護人員遲遲拿不到錢現在是幾月了"},{"start":3851.633,"end":3868.731,"text":"現在1月底那去年的 再來講 去年的錢是不是去年有護理師跟我講說 去年6月上夜班按你們的規定8月就要發啦可是到現在他都還沒有領到那部長你知道這個狀況嗎 其他醫院有沒有一樣的狀況 你如何去解決"},{"start":3871.435,"end":3894.025,"text":"因為我們有一些作業跟審查的落差所以大概是兩個月的落差兩個月的落差現在是幾月 現在是幾月因為我們有一個叫做通報平台如果有這個狀況是可以通報的那麼到目前我問了一下我們同仁好像沒有說到6月到現在還沒有發的信息你是不是再把"},{"start":3894.685,"end":3921.649,"text":"再把這個資料給我們再來細查一下所以我要向部長確定這次春節補助和過去的防疫津貼的執行問題高度相似從第一線人員照冊院內合張到必須等健保署撥款後才能發放再加上牽扯到健保點數的轉換這部分院方都未必能清楚對外說明要如何確保這些春節願意上班的護理師能夠領到春節補助我覺得這非常重要"},{"start":3922.059,"end":3936.474,"text":"我上次才質詢社工一樣一月到現在沒有去領到他們該有的錢那一樣如果醫護人員也是這樣那我覺得中央真的在督促地方或是都督促你們要執行的方案裡面真的要確保他們"},{"start":3937.611,"end":3955.622,"text":"要給的要給這個跟委員報告這一個款項我們是用專款特別去自印所以它沒有點值的問題它就是1.1塊錢而且這個是健保的給付規定如果沒有按照這樣那麼會有健保特管法的"},{"start":3956.342,"end":3973.807,"text":"罰款規定那同時也可能會如果該給而沒有給那醫院也有可能會涉及到侵占公款的形式問題所以這個問題很嚴重的所以這個我想多數的醫院都清楚啦那麼如果有少數的情形我們一定會嚴查"},{"start":3975.287,"end":3999.998,"text":"所以再請委員放心如果有相關的訊息就給我們我覺得機制要做好來如果有醫護人員他畢竟還在那邊上班他們是不是有壓力那如果他今天出來告訴你這件事情可是這本來就不是正常的程序上因為兩個月你要給我錢加班費再怎麼樣當個月就要給了結果你兩個月沒給以外讓你們有些核算時間結果你事實上是五個月六個月都還沒有給"},{"start":4000.838,"end":4016.268,"text":"所以我在這邊有提出三個比較具體務實的建議請部長也正面回憶一個月可不可以交也就是說清查各縣市醫院是否能有津貼持未發的狀況所以你們要主動清查不是叫醫護人員來跟你講然後最後呢他就是會有他的困難為什麼因為他如果一旦涉入到"},{"start":4021.513,"end":4042.153,"text":"很容易大家知道是誰嘛那第二個就是評估是不是能改成看看能不能直接匯到第一線的醫治人員的帳戶這個你們評估看看第三個醫院在收到補助的時候一定要在第一線期限內發給第一線的醫治人員然後有沒有可以建置一個查核跟我覺得處罰機制"},{"start":4043.792,"end":4072.224,"text":"跟我們報告這清查我們可以來清查啦那因為這個補助款我們來要求一定的時間因為我們進去的時間大概會有兩個月的落差然後醫院呢他也有發放這個薪資入帳的時間的落差那過去呢我們這個通報平台也有收過幾件那我們就會去了解那有些是他的行政作業上的務司或承辦人員的那個情有可原的都是都是OK但是"},{"start":4073.004,"end":4094.12,"text":"如果因為我們那個通報平台不一定要具名的所以只要告訴我們可能是在哪些醫院我們就會去查那全面性的清查我想這個這個我們會來麻煩部長先因為為什麼當初這政策良善美意要做一些獎勵可是不要讓第一線的人工作人員"},{"start":4094.761,"end":4109.487,"text":"辛苦之後他得到的是口號而不是準時可以拿到你確實該拿的補助因為我覺得春節也快到了我相信補職長的心情跟我們一樣就是會希望在以來願意付出的人能夠獲得該有的照顧"},{"start":4110.327,"end":4135.426,"text":"那另外一個就是部長我覺得我們說要打造友善的生養環境可是現在很多家長面臨的是有錢卻找不到保姆為什麼根據最新的統計近三年全全國的保姆平均離職率大概是7%但加入率只有6所以差了1%所以等於每一年的人力流失是1%的部長你知道這個代表什麼嗎如果流失的速度不變的話五年後全國在宅的"},{"start":4135.99,"end":4156.148,"text":"保姆將跌破2萬人而且在六都的狀況更嚴重台北市大概流失率是11%那台南呢高達14%部長照這個速度的話台北台南的居家托育服務10年內可能就是瓶頂消失了那衛福部到底有沒有規劃具體的政策來解決我們居家人員人數流失的問題"},{"start":4157.629,"end":4185.494,"text":"跟委員說明一下我們目前的數字上來看去年的這個托育人力居家托育人力大概兩萬八那前一年大概是兩萬七千九所以大概是為此平盤但是您這邊提出的是縣市的差別我們整個數字看起來並沒有減少但是可能有縣市的差異所以我們會再進一步的進行比較細部的分析你一定相對應的對政策"},{"start":4185.854,"end":4213.768,"text":"部長為什麼這樣提我們已經設定了政策目標要在2029年家外送托率要提升到36.9%部長目前托育供給的缺口還缺53916名的幼兒的那個托育名額換句話說如果要打標至少需要13500名的一個保姆部長要問你就是說再人力持續如果是流失甚至有所謂的都市跟像"},{"start":4214.648,"end":4234.157,"text":"不均等的狀況底下這一萬三千五百名的那個保姆到底要從哪裡來因為我們的托育托法已經草案已經訂定了政府也要嚴定政策充實托育人力部長如果沒有穩定的人力的供給的話你這個政策大概是沒辦法來做一個落實所以"},{"start":4235.698,"end":4262.416,"text":"我就直接問一個比較關鍵的問題照顧是不分老幼的為什麼政策不應該分那目前勞動部就有個缺工就業獎勵計畫已經納入長照服務員但同樣嚴重缺工同樣也攸關國內的居家托育人員的卻被排除在外那你現在聽會說那是勞動部啊那我因為我問過勞動部這個還是要衛福部因為保姆人員事實上是掌握在衛福部所以如果要"},{"start":4263.16,"end":4287.819,"text":"只住這種人力缺失的話每年只需要吸引額外2380名的新進保姆在預算上大概以每人10萬8千的獎勵金的計劃的話一年約2.5億元就能做到部長你認為這個金額真的不可行嗎衛福部願不願意來會同勞動部將居家托育人員納入缺工就業獎勵計劃以前是民間在做彭阿盧基金會他們在做"},{"start":4288.519,"end":4295.812,"text":"那可是現在我覺得這應該事實上如果長照有做勞動部也有那是不是政府這邊也要自己來做這件事情好"},{"start":4296.631,"end":4319.001,"text":"有關於這個外託我們在這個新年的預算本來也有在要持續的增加這個公托的點我們還是會持續去增加人力的部分我們謝謝委員給我們這個這個建議的方向我們來找勞動部研究一下因為你剛剛講的是當然托嬰中心是一個方向可是畢竟機構式的和"},{"start":4320.582,"end":4348.12,"text":"希望家庭式的不太一樣那最後就要問身障朋友有沒有有權有看醫生的權利我們上週剛把身權法送出委員會今天就要來請教部長關於身障朋友醫療可進行的問題首先本來身權法24條就有規定了主管機關一定規模的醫院應該要設立特別門診給予身障者那衛福部醫師司也因為因此而被授權訂定說身心障礙者特別門診管理辦法要求"},{"start":4348.78,"end":4371.556,"text":"要設立特別門診這是給予身障朋友醫療禁用權的一個很好的管道身障朋友也認為這個幫助非常的大那我們就來看這個辦法來看特別門診有什麼科就關於辦法第三條指出說應設置獨立的牙科跟發展磁碗特別門診那上週上上週就有我們身心障的夥伴來拜會我們這邊他問的問題就是說"},{"start":4375.083,"end":4390.774,"text":"我也想生育小孩可是我看婦產科就已經相對好麻煩所以我第二個問題說為什麼這麼多科別裡面只有牙科跟發展此外特別門診其他科沒有考量的是什麼你們有沒有真對身心障礙的需求進行過調查他們需要的醫療是什麼"},{"start":4393.077,"end":4405.894,"text":"這個這個辦法這個特別門診的這個設置辦法多年前我在處長的時候訂的 是真的很多年沒有修啦當時候因為沒有提出來那現在有這個需求我們來修把這個這個這個"},{"start":4409.358,"end":4434.728,"text":"孕產婦的門診把它納入那另外呢像剛剛提到我們有身心障礙的牙科的門診因為當時候的這個需求有提出來我們就把它設進去後來也搭配了那個健保會有這個診察費的加成所以它會有一些先設置的條件然後後端會搭配這個己婦上的加成"},{"start":4435.228,"end":4449.337,"text":"那這個部分我想我們所以可不可以先調查看看因為這個法規的部分是1410那麼給付的部分健保會來一起一併的考量因為我自己身為女性非常深知生育的艱難"},{"start":4450.638,"end":4469.462,"text":"如果躺在生殘手術台上連翻身都困難那公說一陣比一陣痛的時候生完還沒有力氣做起來就忍著傷口的疼痛每一天都要這樣撐過去我們尚且如此那身障朋友呢他們告訴我說他們光是從量體重的地方到驗超音波的診間就十分困難跑殘檢就像在打掛一樣所以衛福部110年做的全國的身障調查"},{"start":4476.063,"end":4499.075,"text":"18歲以上的障礙者就已經超過七成都有生養子女那這代表生長者也非常渴望有家庭可是卻沒有友善無障礙的婦產科環境所以這些都是會讓想生育的生長朋友呢最後呢就是卻步所以更何況婦產科不是只有管生小孩其他的有關泌尿科這些疾病都需要婦產科所以部長可不可以再特別門診裡加婦產科讓生長婦女有基本的"},{"start":4503.444,"end":4530.103,"text":"婦產科看診的一個權益 而且一個月內可不可以提出評估報告我們來修這個指定辦法好 謝謝部長 謝謝謝謝委員的指見好 謝謝林月請委員發言 接下來請陳金輝委員發言謝謝主席 謝謝各位官員還有委員 喔 部長請石部長"},{"start":4534.403,"end":4550.676,"text":"今天我們會拍這個專報就是因為我們怕去年經歷的春節擁捨急診擁捨這樣子的現象今年重蹈覆轍其實很多醫務人員也在也在擔憂啦那這個是去年我不知道印象很深刻去年呢發生了急診擁捨之後賴總統當"},{"start":4552.997,"end":4578.891,"text":"當時有親自主持健康臺灣推動委員會那他就說他非常關切這件事情那我們看衛福部自己發的文他寫得很清楚總統當時下令要落實分級並且呢總統指示說要建立一個民眾版的就醫指引那賴總統的支票已經開一年了這個傳說中可以解決擁捨的民眾版就醫指引你們弄好了嗎"},{"start":4579.952,"end":4594.091,"text":"跟委員說明這個指引的部分那個144現在已經到了最後因為他要跟很多醫學會討論那差不多了那麼應該看看能不能在下個月初我們就會先上網下個月初"},{"start":4595.137,"end":4613.719,"text":"春節已經 春節前我們就會讓他先上我給你看一下這個是我查到的因為你們蠻重視這件事嘛那我就上你們的網站去查你們的就醫指引到底在哪裡結果這個就醫指引是10年前的檔案這個你自己也知道啦"},{"start":4615.161,"end":4631.199,"text":"他是105年上傳的並且他上傳的檔案裡面還有提到行政院衛生署行政院衛生署是2013年改制的表示他上傳這個檔案有可能這個檔案還更早比2015年還更早那我把這邊全部都讀完了52頁"},{"start":4633.702,"end":4661.805,"text":"總統說到的分級醫療隻字未提裡面有講到說你去看醫生的時候你要自己怎麼樣整理自己的病情然後你應該跟醫生講什麼他有講到這些可是對於這個分級他是沒有講到那現在很開心聽到你說你要修改請問你修改的重點可以簡單一兩分鐘跟我們講一下就好了嗎當然他的這個重點上最重要是讓民眾清楚什麼時候到急診什麼時候其實在這個就近的"},{"start":4662.61,"end":4684.327,"text":"這個基層診所看就可以重點在這個地方判斷這個需要去緊急就醫的那個要件是哪一些那我們也會搭配這個開診的資訊好像春節期間的我們都目前持續在調查當中那麼在1月28號我們健保已經在這個我們的那個就就醫"},{"start":4686.355,"end":4701.442,"text":"資訊上面有個專區春節的就醫資訊專區裡面會列出所有每一天有開診的診所在哪一個區就可以查詢你會提供一個PDF檔會有一個APP就可以查"},{"start":4702.502,"end":4717.132,"text":"剛講了這麼多我們來看一下這個表這個是我剛上任的時候做過的總質詢當時的行政院長還是陳建仁我說蔡英文總統執政8年分級醫療是不動如山並且花了總共530億元所以她"},{"start":4720.114,"end":4737.785,"text":"民眾到醫學中心就醫的比例從106年到112年都是10點多%你們是把106年設定成一個基期那我們就從賴總統上任以來 我們來分析112到113又上漲了1% 10到11.8113到114又變成11.8到12.19"},{"start":4744.91,"end":4773.954,"text":"我也想問因為當時我在做這個質詢的時候您是署長不知道有沒有印象那這個這三年這兩三年的投入看起來是出了什麼問題因為你的預算跟政策看起來是無效甚至是更加惡化到底問題在哪裡之前還是持平現在是一年上升一趴跟委員報告因為這樣的數字太過於RAF我們有更細緻的去分析我們的做法上是把"},{"start":4774.654,"end":4778.961,"text":"醫院裡面把門診扣除掉重大傷病"},{"start":4779.437,"end":4802.021,"text":"扣除掉門診手術扣除掉急診因為我們在申報的時候會急門診是一起的把它扣除之後去看它的占比在醫學中心的平均占比這樣所謂的輕症占比是38%整個醫院收入的38%那麼到區醫院的等級的話呢它是大概50到55%到地區醫院是65%"},{"start":4806.002,"end":4824.344,"text":"所以以这样来看我们的分级医疗是成功的你是用它的点值你是用它的点值全部加起来它看的病人就是比较重就是说它很高的比例是重大伤病者那些癌症的病人这些你是需要到医学中心就应该到医学中心这个是OK的"},{"start":4824.784,"end":4852.431,"text":"所以按照這樣來看這個數字的占比醫學中心是在下降那你什麼時候會提出你的新的評估表因為你應該要提出一個新的評估表嘛你要怎麼樣看哪些指標分析料可以落實有那因為我們就搭配了個別醫院總合在看這個事情我想委員也聽我講過需要降到50%以下因為有的醫學中心我剛剛講的是平均是38%可是有的醫院是高的所以要"},{"start":4853.251,"end":4867.802,"text":"超過50%的一定要降到50%以下我們會透過這個健保的機制醫院個別總和來調整所以來導引讓這個各層級的醫院扮演他的角色好 這個是你講的"},{"start":4868.502,"end":4886.136,"text":"你說你會先觀察你去年10月的時候說先進入一個觀察期然後再來醫院聯盟再來是漲部分負擔但是我們從過去這段時間來看你有漲過但似乎沒有什麼太大的效果目前我們面臨的困難是對基層信任嘛"},{"start":4886.536,"end":4908.416,"text":"因為大家可能覺得他平常非常習慣於到這邊看慢性病到醫學中心等等的他現在沒有辦法對基層信任我想知道你從10月到現在你說是觀察期你目前觀察到什麼跟委員說明我們另外再看基層剛剛我提到的是各層級醫院的分級醫療的角色我們認為他是有達到了"},{"start":4908.996,"end":4932.644,"text":"那麼部分的醫院沒有達到我們會透過個別醫院總額的調整機制那麼來要求至於在基層的部分我們看到在慢性處方間的領取率在基層的部分是提高了所以這個基層我們看到的這個趨勢是有增加的所以我們覺得這個分級效還是它的成效但是可以繼續再往前走"},{"start":4932.984,"end":4958.319,"text":"那我可以一個月跟你要你說你想設定新的評估數據嗎因為剛剛那個表也是你們自己做的然後做出來的表問你你又說不是這樣子算的可是這表是你做的我們不斷的在精進那一個月可以跟你說那一個月可以要你那新的指標嗎你新的指標那這邊再給你一些具體的建議因為你剛剛自己也講到說你要運用AI"},{"start":4959.5,"end":4983.592,"text":"好那其實我們現在就有一個APP健保快遇通的APP你為什麼你剛講了你說你現在在調查春節會開的診所基層診所然後你可能會給他誘因對嗎你現在已經在調查了嗎對誘因已經發布了然後到時候呢到時候你會做一個檔案然後讓全國的民眾去不是說檔案他是很優化的查詢他可以根據你的所在地去查"},{"start":4984.953,"end":5005.33,"text":"我是建議你乾脆把它融入一個看診的地圖有有有 這已經有了我的意思是說你平常可以落實的話你春節就更可以落實更何況春節的時候很多人是在移動中所以他換到另外一個城市可能已經不是他在工作的地方所習慣的基層醫療診所他必須要重新去尋找"},{"start":5009.173,"end":5023.395,"text":"其實委員你可能沒有下載我們的這個健保的快易通啦我們的健保快易通有啦那個打開打開喔我的意思是說我的意思是說你要把它融入節日的時候有開的"},{"start":5025.738,"end":5029.922,"text":"你知道我的意思嗎因為我們現在就是在談論春節擁捨的問題那你平常平常當然一到五我自己打開我去查我去急診所很ok因為這邊是習慣你居住或是工作的地方可是你春節的時候就在移動了那你剛剛很辛苦收集到這麼多的資訊你不是應該要把它融入嗎"},{"start":5048.659,"end":5073.164,"text":"那包括當然如果可以的話比如說清明連假或者是228連假你可以從這三四天五天的這些連假去做測試因為春節就是一個一整年的壓力測試你如果等到一整年才測試一次我覺得這個就有點久所以平常有些連假的時候你就可以測試我們春節的部分這一次會先"},{"start":5074.244,"end":5102.703,"text":"拉出專區啦剛剛跟委員說明那個是選舉的拉出那個專區未來我們把假日也用一個專區啦您的意思是我的意思就是說其實他什麼時候很需要是因為他可能連假的時候有移動他更不熟悉那附近的基層診所在哪裡或者是誰有開嘛那你也可以鼓勵這些你給他誘因你鼓勵他上傳然後你把他結合進去你的地圖以後那這些他就更有誘因他可以被查詢到"},{"start":5105.165,"end":5121.256,"text":"好那第二個就是這個UCC但是我剛有聽其他委員質詢所以我可能再等待一段時間聽起來你現在還沒有辦法給我們一個UCC你有沒有要擴大還是沒有要擴大是嗎對我們當時候就提到說十四六個月之後會檢討那來決定調整或擴大好"},{"start":5124.418,"end":5151.323,"text":"那十六個月之後我們再來跟你查詢這個那第二個問題因為這個也是急診室擁捨最近就是剛好是近期靠近春節的前後都會發生的因為我們現在有很多的尾牙春酒然後還有春節這個過年大家去餐廳吃飯等等的那2024年醫療暴力高達444件是五年來的新高近六成都在急診室"},{"start":5153.004,"end":5171.301,"text":"因為這樣子私人的活動所引起的醫療需求也就是說喝太多通常送到急診他就打點滴這個你都很清楚因為你也是急診科醫生睡覺可是他其實消耗掉非常多醫護的量能對這個你都懂那包括我們的警察救護車等等"},{"start":5172.122,"end":5187.41,"text":"那這個是你們次長自己講的你們次長說他開始想到一些研議的方法比如說參考其他國家瑞士啊美國啊會有一個禁制隔離式類似讓他行久的這種觀察式他不一定是醫療機構裡面或者是醫療人員來成立的那他講的這個話後來又有新聞請問你們內部有開過會嗎"},{"start":5196.799,"end":5215.402,"text":"這個跟委員說明過去在急診經常會處理這種病那麼一般來講有兩種狀況一種是因為他的混亂讓我們無法判斷他有沒有醫療問題他可能同時有外傷或什麼可是又有酒精的效果那一種才需要在醫院裡面留"},{"start":5216.022,"end":5223.048,"text":"但是我純粹是要睡覺的不准在醫院睡覺這個我等一下會跟你討論我的意思是說你們次長講了這個然後這個也上了新聞你們到底我們要演你我不是在問你急診處理的guideline"},{"start":5230.983,"end":5249.186,"text":"這個所謂的靜置區這個靜置區就是觀察區啦就是觀察啦只是讓他不要去干擾到醫護人員或者是其他他就是個觀察區不是睡覺區啦就是說他有醫療的需要那需要留觀的時候讓他有一個isolate的地方我們會來研議因為過去在有一些醫院的急診有這種這個譬如說AQ Psychotic的病人他就會"},{"start":5259.915,"end":5284.003,"text":"就會在這一個房間裡面去靜置不見得是酗酒所以聽起來你是想把它放在醫院裡面有時候是需要的聽起來你是希望把它放在醫療院所裡面不是不是不是不是我剛剛提到的是有一些急性精神病人他會有混亂的情形也會在急診裡面有一個獨立的空間對啊那就是醫療院所裡面就一樣啊就是跟這個概念是一樣"},{"start":5284.363,"end":5313.422,"text":"我剛剛提到的是喝酒醉的喝酒醉的要睡覺就回家睡覺不是在醫院裡面擺一個空間給他酒醒沒有這回事情但是他如果有醫療的需要需要觀察看看他有沒有其他的問題因為有時候酒精的會影響到在病人病情診斷跟處事上的影響需要觀察那就留在這裡我先幫你整理我先幫你整理一下就是其實最近也有一個新聞"},{"start":5314.302,"end":5337.911,"text":"這個新聞是他其實常常是想要回家但是他在回家的路上因為交通事故發生問題所以也不是這麼簡單但你們次長所講出來的整理了世界各國比如說瑞士美國加拿大澳洲他們都有做類似這樣子的行酒中心他們可能是地方政府或者是非營利機構主要就是做幾個事情當然他會去判斷他需不需要去醫院就像你剛剛講的他現在沒有"},{"start":5338.211,"end":5348.915,"text":"急症嘛呼吸抑制嚴重的嘔吐或是意識喪失這個是他要判斷的如果沒有不需要醫療介入的可以自然等待清醒的會放在這邊安全的去安置監測離開的時候是要付費的那離開之後他可能還會被"},{"start":5354.897,"end":5366.602,"text":"記錄如果他很常來他可能要過濾出有酒飲的人需要去戒斷的人還要去上課的人等等的但是他在其他國家很多並不一定是由醫療機構來做因為他很多處置並不需要醫療人員"},{"start":5372.225,"end":5388.515,"text":"所以這個就是一個月內希望可以要到你研擬之後評估之後你到底多久要達成因為這個也是解決我們春節擁捨的其中一個小的項目或是平常跟委員報告這個一個月沒有辦法"},{"start":5388.975,"end":5409.546,"text":"這個要跨部會不可能把它放在醫院裡面那我們多久可以再跟你討論三個月啦我們來研究看看好三個月那裡面就這幾個重點就請您稍微看一下就主觀的去判斷就這個到底機構法源基礎在哪裡它是醫療的還是警政還是民政然後它的"},{"start":5410.166,"end":5425.373,"text":"比如說你們要不要收費那他是不是會跟一些介營來做串聯那主觀的判斷是要送醫院還是留在這邊等等然後各國遇到預算問題社區的接受度等等好那我們就三個月可以再跟您討論好好謝謝謝謝好謝謝陳勤輝委員發言接下來請王育明委員發言"},{"start":5440.535,"end":5442.48,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請部長請時部長王媛媛好"},{"start":5448.359,"end":5471.179,"text":"部長好 部長今天大家都非常關注今年長達九天的春節期間到底我們的醫療量能夠不夠會不會很多民眾生病的時候又往大醫院跑造成急診的用色然後去排擠了一些需要重大醫療的病人就診的權利那我覺得第一件事情我們要確立的就是說"},{"start":5472.02,"end":5493.141,"text":"我们的基层诊所的开诊率够不够因为你这样子才能分流那过去是一成的比例那你们今年寄出了16亿的奖金就希望大家可以提高那到目前为止我上次问过林经理次长他没有办法说出现在到底基层诊所开诊率达到多少那今天部长你知道了吗"},{"start":5493.741,"end":5511.71,"text":"跟委員報告確實您的觀察完全正確在去年我們調查初一初二初三開診率2到4%左右沒有到一成2到4%非常的低所以我們今年才有這個獎勵措施這幾天開診是double的給付"},{"start":5512.35,"end":5527.158,"text":"那到目前的話已經有在上升有的已經到10了那有些縣市大概在7左右已經比去年大概有兩倍的成長但是目前還在一直在調查當中透過衛生局跟醫師公會的push大家在調查所以這個"},{"start":5529.921,"end":5544.621,"text":"這個門診就基層診所的開診率一定是比去年高那另外我們的UCC也準備好在這些六都人比較多的地方我們也去強化那醫院的部分的開診率也提高了現在調查回來大概醫院在這幾天"},{"start":5546.303,"end":5561.816,"text":"初二 初三 開診率都會達到七成以上所以也都會有開診體驗對 醫院向來是比較高所以民眾的慣性就會覺得跑大醫院怎麼沒錯不過我們也知道醫院的開診是開在門診所以它也可以去分流掉那個急診不會直接跑到急診區"},{"start":5562.516,"end":5585.567,"text":"對 但是基層的診所其實對民眾就醫來講是相對比較方便的那所以你現在有沒有把握就是說經過你們這樣的激勵之後你剛剛說有部分已經到10%那整體22個縣市 你有把握平均數可以拉到10到15%嗎我們朝這個10%來努力10%嗎 對所以寄出16億也只能到10%"},{"start":5587.308,"end":5606.308,"text":"你知不知道大家診所不開不開的原因不過也要考慮到的是說民眾的那個就醫需要啦是因為這個傳統上這個大年初一看病這個我知道但是我們的醫療讓大家都很累但是沒有病人也不好所以我們在在拿捏在拿捏"},{"start":5607.589,"end":5619.078,"text":"是我覺得這個部分的確你們要好好去研議我今天看到了這個基隆市政府他們做一件事情我覺得蠻不錯的我認為衛福部應該去督導各縣市是不是可以比照辦理他們其實在26號他就找了這個區域裡面包括醫師公會然後醫院診所就是大家來開會然後仔細去盤點然後很慎重的來看待這件事情"},{"start":5635.211,"end":5659.73,"text":"去整合這樣的一個醫療量能那另外一個呢他還特別在2月14號呢他要開始去安排人力每天去監控就是他的急診的就醫人數還有病床數還有他跟醫院的高層他其實是會及時有一個及時的調度機制的然後呢他就是透過這個及時調度機制要去確保醫療量能是足夠的"},{"start":5660.51,"end":5665.895,"text":"我看到金融市政府衛生局這樣的做法我個人覺得蠻欣賞的因為這個就是很確實去掌握在地的所有的醫療量而且透過溝通透過平台也跟醫院的高層可以有一個即時調度的機制那我要問你的是"},{"start":5677.325,"end":5698.03,"text":"除了高雄市政府這樣做之外其他的22個縣市有沒有比照這樣跟進辦理有沒有人在做這件事你掌握情況如何根文人報告其實好幾個縣市都是這樣啟動像桃園也是台南也這樣做所以衛生局都主動的去介入像台南市的開診率就很高"},{"start":5698.63,"end":5728.15,"text":"他現在已經調查到800多家都要開了所以這個確實像您講的衛生局如果能夠更主動一點這個就會效果更好那我們現在也在2月2號還會再找所有各衛生局再開一次去了解目前的開診情形跟這個力道夠不夠所以我想這個我們會密切的您的這個所舉的這個基隆市的例子其實我們知道幾個縣市也都做得不錯我們會來跟他們分享這個做法"},{"start":5728.77,"end":5751.88,"text":"你作為中央主管機關其實就是要掌握有些做比較好的就要讓其他縣市知道說事實上透過這樣的一個協調的機制溝通或者是你的一個監測你會讓整個的運作其實是達到你原來想要達到的目的不是只有獎金發出去好像它就自然產生效果其實並沒有還有中間你整個落實的部分所以這個部分我希望你們好好去督導"},{"start":5752.58,"end":5779.295,"text":"那另外一個就是剛剛葉委員提到就是即時就醫的資訊夠不夠透明你剛剛說你可以透過APP就是在春節期間所有的醫療量能哪些診所開診幾點到幾點你現在已經佈建好這樣的一個即時就醫地圖了嗎對 已經Ready了Ready了是不是那它會即時更新嗎對 現在不斷的在更新都會即時更新那個資訊嘛那那個APP是在哪裡1月28號上線1月28號"},{"start":5782.156,"end":5797.361,"text":"1月28號就是這禮拜已經上線了就會上線那在我們的健保的APP上面會有一個專區但是資訊還在不斷的更新因為有的還在調查所以現在是可使用了對 應該可以了嗎"},{"start":5798.64,"end":5819.671,"text":"來我們那個署長好來是謝謝委員的指導所以我們在健保APP有一個春節專區上面有兩個鞭炮點進去點自己所在地點你要的時段就會跑出所有有開診的醫療院所是即時的所以一直在更新那我們昨天做的資訊測試這禮拜就可以對外公佈以上這禮拜什麼時候對外公佈"},{"start":5821.28,"end":5828.365,"text":"已經上線了28號所以今天已經可以開始使用了那待會大家幫忙測試一下大家測試一下如果有什麼問題立刻跟我們反映"},{"start":5836.752,"end":5851.171,"text":"我觉得这个部分其实非常的重要我希望我们今年的春节医疗量能是匆匆容容游刃有余不要连滚带爬我想希望在大家的通力合作底下可以达到这样的效果"},{"start":5851.711,"end":5870.087,"text":"那最後我要問的是事實上醫院裡面這個護理人員其實非常的辛苦那你們的這個護病比獎勵金的制度現在施行下來呢有兩個問題我希望部長回去之後你還是要去思考一下第一個就是說醫學中心的門檻有沒有過高的問題你們在114年6月獎勵金這個"},{"start":5875.291,"end":5884.661,"text":"幾家大的醫學中心都還有分到但是呢你們調高門檻之後呢瞬間歸零啊獎勵金突然就歸零部長你知道這樣的情況嗎"},{"start":5885.891,"end":5910.824,"text":"我再了解一下這個是去年的事對我希望這個部分你們好好去去研議一下瞬間歸零那這個當然護理師就也一毛錢就拿不到了那另外一個是地區醫院你的公式設計你完全跟住院住院率就是來做聯動然後有護理師就說領到醫院發的幾十塊他覺得是被羞辱啊"},{"start":5912.065,"end":5928.397,"text":"因為醫院分到很少 他就這樣分下去幾十塊也算獎勵金 這個覺得不生唏噓所以像這個護理人員 最近大家也在討論怎麼樣讓我們的護理師可以減少他的人力負擔 包括你們現在要引進"},{"start":5929.11,"end":5943.886,"text":"一些外籍工他可以來從旁協助這個方向性我個人是支持的是降低這個護理師但是本職上面他們在第一線的現場有一些還是是工作負荷過高的一個問題我覺得這個真的是很長期以來的問題啦那我希望部長這個新上任這個問題"},{"start":5951.38,"end":5978.995,"text":"你可能要多想想怎麼樣可以讓我們的護理師真的可以穩定下來因為我們在醫院的這個整個運作少了護理師病床都開不了他們真的很重要是 我們會來檢討不過剛剛提到這個幾十塊的我們有查最主要就是因為都是20床以下的醫院所以床數就是很少所以它也沒有什麼病人所以換句話說它的loading也很輕"},{"start":5979.955,"end":5995.385,"text":"但是他不是住房的這部分他可能是在門診的部分不管門診的這是住院歸住院的護理師因為我們的加成是根據你收治住院病人的10%去加成他只住一天"},{"start":5996.266,"end":6021.242,"text":"就是有一種沒有病人其實是沒有病人其實這樣的護理人員他上班的時候也輕鬆因為沒病人但是他需要有一個護理師在那邊病房要等不知道什麼時候會有但是確實又沒有什麼病人來所以他最後會領到的很少主要是這樣所以這樣的公視對這一類的醫院其實就沒有產生效果我們來討論看看分到幾十塊這還是"},{"start":6024.844,"end":6035.886,"text":"怎麼讓這些小型醫院的這個功能能夠發揮出來這是另外一個要思考的好啊你們一併去檢討好不好好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝王育民委員發言接下來請邱振軍委員發言好謝謝主席我們請部長有請石部長"},{"start":6054.83,"end":6070.237,"text":"好 最後人長部長好剛剛大家都在關心這個議題就是我們春節期間那我看了一下資料這個去年的時候平均每天急診就3.7萬人次那最高單日達到4.5萬人"},{"start":6071.657,"end":6096.799,"text":"不論對急診醫護人員或對正在等床等救命的病人來說都是一個非常緊繃甚至帶有風險的一個狀況尤其是對重症的重症者而言時間就是生命那部長你們所謂的強化區域聯防機制遇到某一家醫院或某一個區域急診跟ICU的量能已經飽和的時候實際負責調度跟轉送決策的是誰是中央還是地方"},{"start":6098.221,"end":6124.07,"text":"這個當然是這個跟委員報告說我們第一個是監測系統把它建立起來所以包含這個ICU 膠物病房的量的情形都有然後地區上我們有一個這個地區的這個RMEOC這個區域的緊急醫療應變中心會協助衛生局來做病床的所以他是中央來主導還是地方在掌控"},{"start":6126.431,"end":6141.276,"text":"地方失靈的時候我們中央什麼時候會介入因為我們也建立了這個平台所以我們會他需要跨區的協助的時候我們就會透過這個剛剛提到的REMOC來協助跨區的調度這樣"},{"start":6143.034,"end":6163.452,"text":"您提的是這樣因為每個縣市衛生局他只能管到他轄內醫療院所那可能每一個縣市的醫療資源因為我看到有這個需要跨區的調度有這個東西但是就是沒有人負責我現在意思是這樣總是要有一個人負責去做這件事情不能說到時候出了狀況又推來推去的"},{"start":6165.974,"end":6189.555,"text":"會會 今年我們特別強化這個區域的合作包含我們的這個健保的分區業務組的組長包含我們這個這個剛剛提到的這個REMOC都會在這個組組裡面協助我希望這個還是要有一個人負責這樣才有責任當然這樣做起來才會比較有效率 好吧那另外我看到你們這個春節的整備專案裡面"},{"start":6190.476,"end":6213.357,"text":"你們投入了16億用在診察費跟護理費跟藥事服務費加成簡單說這16億其實有兩個目標啦當然是一個降低急診擁塞的情況嘛那第二個是安撫我們在線的這個第一線比較忙碌的這些人員嘛那我們先講第一個目標你們要避免春節急診擁塞核心的做法就是讓"},{"start":6214.398,"end":6224.584,"text":"醫院門診 基層診所願意開診讓輕症患者有地方去嘛那不要全部都擠到急診去那你有沒有設定一個目標你們這一次要打到幾層啊"},{"start":6225.526,"end":6254.085,"text":"就是說在醫院的部分過去大概開診率比較低的都是初一、初二、初三一般都初四、初五就開診了所以我們去提高初一、初二、初三這幾天的開診率那目前看起來醫院都會到七成以上都會開了那另外基層的部分過去這幾天大概都2%到4%左右而已那我們今年希望能夠提高到大概10%左右你怎麼做 你這個10%你要怎麼做"},{"start":6255.346,"end":6280.425,"text":"怎麼做我們現在已經第一個我們有這個剛剛提到的這個獎勵的機制另外有衛生局可以協調地方的醫師公會去這個安排看診然後我們再把這個已經有具體做了嗎已經在進行了我不希望這只是這個花了錢在碰運氣啦不要說我有這個政策但是呢要看這個地方的診所自己願意參加我們提供獎勵當然要進去協調啦我覺得這個才會有效果"},{"start":6283.988,"end":6308.416,"text":"因為再來就是我們這個疾病館這個疾管署我們2025年春節期間全國加開的傳染病特別門診大概是1230次這個診治那今年延續去年一樣會開今年要開多少次一樣就是急救責任醫院都會開因為你們去年好像只有提高一成嘛對不對"},{"start":6310.681,"end":6319.272,"text":"對去年的這個只有這個CDC的這個流感門診有獎勵措施今年是全面性的有健保介入"},{"start":6320.714,"end":6341.773,"text":"那第二個目標就是我們讓這個春節要上班急診與住院的這個病房醫師醫護人員在原本的加班費之外再有額外的補償加成嗎這樣沒有錯嗎對就是我們提供的提供在這個住院的部分的這個護理費、診察費還有這個藥事服務費都加成"},{"start":6342.193,"end":6363.239,"text":"我看到你們的規定寫得非常明確,至少有80%要實際發給出勤的人員那我看到因為醫學中心為例,一名護理人員在春節期間只要實際上一個班在這個加成制度下,實際可以領多少錢?有算過嗎?"},{"start":6364.264,"end":6383.566,"text":"沒有這個是我們以這樣的方式去給醫院費用但是醫院還要去分攤給其他的比如說他可能也有清潔人員要出來或者是S光醫事檢驗師醫事放射師所以他們是要去以這個錢去給有上班的人大家去分配的"},{"start":6383.806,"end":6397.377,"text":"那個護理師公會全國聯合會在社群上有幫你們計算這個做法把它計算出來那以醫學中心急性一般病床為例這個護理費第二天以後是888點"},{"start":6399.258,"end":6410.927,"text":"春節加成100%每床大概多888點40床就是35520點如果一天三班合計16人出勤平均每人可以分配到2220點那其中至少八成約1776點應該要發給實際出勤的第一線人員一天有三班等於護理師 護理人員上一個班大概多600元左右這個數字對嗎"},{"start":6429.686,"end":6455.382,"text":"我不太敢確定是醫院怎麼樣去處理這些費用因為他們本來就有在加我知道他實際是給院裡面處理但我現在問的不是個案差異而是制度設計下合理推估上一個班第一線護理人員到底能夠拿到多少這如果我們自己都講不出來這個加成對他們來說到底是不是一個有感的一個獎勵金我覺得部長要去思考好"},{"start":6455.802,"end":6480.895,"text":"好不好 因為這個我覺得非常重要啦因為我們不曉得他們怎麼去處理嘛我覺得我們部裡面既然有這個心意我還是要讓醫護人員能夠感受到 好不好另外 我們賴總統在選前親自向護理人員做出明確的承諾開出一張很清楚的支票 三班護病筆要入法 兩年內要入法現在今年5月20賴總統就要兩年了 上任就要兩年了"},{"start":6482.276,"end":6490.564,"text":"那目前只剩下半年的時間我請教部長我們總統的政見三班戶並比兩年要入法這這項承諾會不會跳票"},{"start":6492.879,"end":6519.856,"text":"我想這個在這個三班互比比上我們做了很多的努力那現在看起來護理人員有在這個提升這個已經在回流了啦然後這個符合達標的比例也在提高那不過呢我們還有很多的做法包含這個自動化的措施簡化那麼對因為很多醫院所以到底這個互併比應該要做什麼樣的他已經達標的沒錯有很多已經到地區醫院到92.1%"},{"start":6522.057,"end":6541.182,"text":"那全台有400多間醫療診所也有86.7%的這個達標率那既然大多數醫院已經做得到數據也證明不會衝擊偏鄉的醫療那我想這個部分是不是能夠在這個520之前提出來我想這個護病比入法"},{"start":6542.673,"end":6554.114,"text":"這個我想這個方向我們會朝這個方向來努力不過重點是那個比例應該是多少要讓它有彈性不要是一個很固定的一個數值反而那個彈性不見了那麼"},{"start":6555.416,"end":6575.903,"text":"反而讓這個醫院沒有願意去投入讓他去降低這個臨床的負荷那同時也可能影響到病人的權益啦所以這個我們是要兩邊要兼顧的所以我是覺得這個部分還是要加快因為我們醫護人員這個大出走的時候我們再來處理就太慢了"},{"start":6577.286,"end":6605.141,"text":"降低這個臨床的負荷這個目標是一致的這個不會改變但是我剛剛提到的這個護病比的數字不要用一個單我希望這樣啦這個議題這個法案不要變成一個政治議題啦不要說到時候萬一這個出了狀況之後在財囊來做趕快來入法然後來救生量我不希望把它變成一個政治工具好不好部長你這個盡快那另外最近看到新聞啦就是西醫"},{"start":6606.421,"end":6629.771,"text":"這個印度西孟加拉省爆發的高致死率的立百病毒的疫情那我看到我們的報告就是說預告60天所以在3月中會將立百病毒列為第五類法定傳染病那我們在1月27號發布這個醫界通函提醒醫師詢問這個旅遊史等等這些但我看到看的就是說"},{"start":6631.051,"end":6653.773,"text":"預告期60天是你們的行政慣例那可是其實亞洲國家其實就已經戰戰兢兢在在解決這個事情你不覺得60天太久嗎這個我們隨時來調整不過我們在一介通海裡面已經提到就可以開始通報了那這個預告完之後那個就變成強制性啦那現在我們已經是要求提高這個警覺如果"},{"start":6654.614,"end":6669.404,"text":"排除了現有的病毒性感染特別是在腦炎的部分尤其現在是春節期間很多國人都會從這個在外面的都會回來或者出國旅遊的所以我覺得這是高峰期你這個我覺得這個東西你拖到60天會不會太慢不會"},{"start":6670.585,"end":6689.481,"text":"應該跟委員說明這個是法律規定我們就這樣做可是實務上我們在進行的防疫措施已經啟動了那另外也藉這個機會也跟國人說明一下目前在印度發生的這一個立百病毒的案例看起來是控制住的"},{"start":6690.121,"end":6713.017,"text":"你不要講控制 當初花蓮那個驗社會也是說控制住 後來不是出了狀況對不對 我覺得我們還是不管做什麼啦 就是說還是要未雨綢繆我希望這個東西就是未雨綢繆我們做好準備 但是國人不需驚慌不用太擔心 當然不用驚慌 可是因為要相信你們啦對不對 對但是我希望布裡面不要讓人民失望沒有問題 謝謝"},{"start":6719.957,"end":6724.021,"text":"好 謝謝邱正軍委員發言接下來請圖全吉委員發言好 謝謝主席 那請問石部長有請石部長"},{"start":6737.112,"end":6750.608,"text":"好 市部長那之前在總質詢的時候有跟院長還有衛福部說拜託檢討一下我們桃園沿海醫療量能的問題這部分部長有"},{"start":6752.43,"end":6766.444,"text":"知道這件事嗎有有有就是委員一直在關心這個我們新屋分院桃園新屋分院那個一直在行政院審查當中應該快要有結果了我們在做最後的計畫修訂"},{"start":6767.865,"end":6790.544,"text":"因為那時候講沿海醫療量能的問題因為我們說像我們全台灣有最大的三個工業區一個是張濱 雲林還有一個就是我們桃園沿海的觀音工業區那觀音工業區裡面它包含桃科工業區 環科工業區 大唐工業區還有旁邊的大園工業區那據我們了解我們看張濱工業區它裡面"},{"start":6793.186,"end":6810.506,"text":"有一個區域教學醫院就是我們彰化秀傳醫院那在雲林工業區裡面有一個地區醫院是我們雲林長庚醫院所以我們發現我們為什麼說要討論這沿海醫療量呢你看我們這個北部最大的工業區觀音工業區那這裡面"},{"start":6813.469,"end":6828.884,"text":"包含我剛剛講的那麼多個工業區都在裡面可是這裡面完全都沒有醫療院所然後也沒有急診所以這部分部長有幫我們了解有沒有什麼要怎麼樣去做改善的地方"},{"start":6829.96,"end":6844.425,"text":"這個我們會再找這個桃園衛生局我們來討論看看因為這個這個桃園的副市長王副市長他很有想法那他的想法也很不錯我們會跟他來討論之後來協助對因為"},{"start":6847.426,"end":6859.62,"text":"他們有討論過就是市府可能規劃要市立醫院然後在觀音成立一個分院可是成立分院他可能是會設門診但是一樣"},{"start":6862.423,"end":6888.771,"text":"可能因為他說因為他本身資源的問題他沒有辦法去做這個急診對 跟委員說明這個王副市長很特別也跟我提到這個事情那他的想法也蠻務實的就是說你去弄一個醫院那但是呢這個醫院現在光是這個找人啦這個開病床這個問題啦那這個地方的主要任務就是向UCC啦就是向我們現在所提供的這個"},{"start":6890.331,"end":6906.456,"text":"及輕症或者是重症的初步處理然後就後送所以大概會朝這個方向來設計讓我們來跟衛生局來討論看看如果需要我們協助的部分我們會全力來協助"},{"start":6907.476,"end":6928.794,"text":"因為我們在講最主要除了它本身因為我們發現大園跟觀音完全都沒有急診便房然後它裡面除了一般它裡面居住的人口之外其實它現在人口一直在成長最主要每天到工業區上班的人數也是非常非常的多"},{"start":6929.454,"end":6953.982,"text":"那如果說成立這個觀音分院是不是有接衛福部可以把他納入緊急醫療網的部分來加強他急診這個方面就是他的功能像我們現在做的UCC像我們UCC是做假日嘛然後再看他當時候因為有時候夜間不見得需要但是平常因為上班時間人比較多那萬一有什麼狀況的時候可以就近除的處理好 那這部分"},{"start":6955.442,"end":6974.509,"text":"若市立醫院觀音草大分院成立之後是不是衛福部我希望說請他們送計畫跟衛福部討論納入緊急醫療網我們之前是這個對於這個為了避免妨礙到分級醫療政策的推動所以一般的醫院的所謂的院外門診部已經是禁止不設"},{"start":6975.129,"end":6998.911,"text":"但是公立醫院如果是基於他的公共任務需要的話呢那麼我們可以專案來審查所以我們會請這個衛生局提出這個整個規劃之後我們來協助討論好那就請部長幫忙希望我們這個市立醫院觀音草大分院成立之後希望衛福部把他納入這個方向我很支持好希望把他納入我們就有機會在這邊設急診病房是"},{"start":7001.013,"end":7018.074,"text":"好那剛剛部長也知道也有討論到就是我們因為剛前面有提到我們觀音不是我們部桃新屋分院綜合醫療大樓的擴建計畫那這部分現在部長你掌握的情形到哪裡"},{"start":7019.418,"end":7044.358,"text":"這個在做最後的修訂了啦應該也快了應該也快了對 據我們了解好像說我們查詢我們在今年1月15號查詢說國發會已經把他的審議意見函附給行政院了對對對而且他們也說請行政院協助競訴核定表示他們也認同這個綜合醫療大樓部桃西屋分院擴建計畫應該也要馬上進行是"},{"start":7046.5,"end":7073.268,"text":"所以這部分請部長再幫我們多叮嚀因為這關係到我們大園觀音新屋還有我們陽梅整個周邊因為這醫療資源真的匱乏所以我們把計畫在部桃新屋分院這擴建計畫提升我們的醫療量能提升它的醫療資源好 這個我們的責任好 這部分也請我們部長多幫忙那還有這個之前我們有提到我們目前真的"},{"start":7074.229,"end":7095.054,"text":"我們這個醫事放射師還有護理師人力不足像今天大家討論我們春節急診還有我們三班戶病比的問題所以我們了解其實現在最擔心的就是我們護理師人力不足還有醫事放射師人力不足那這部分之前也跟部長來討論過那"},{"start":7097.455,"end":7107.292,"text":"部長後來你有了解我們各縣市醫事放射師人力的缺口的情形部長這部分有沒有掌握是不是很缺啊"},{"start":7108.612,"end":7130.699,"text":"我想醫事司昨天才跟醫事放射師團體大家有做過一些討論了解他們所面臨到的職業困境健保也在協助陳署長也親自跟他們談過所以我們未來會有一些新的改善方案"},{"start":7131.199,"end":7158.349,"text":"對 據我們了解其實北部你看連續兩年我們查了一下連續兩年這放射師招募都不足那中部我看很多教學醫院居然高達大概有五成的缺口所以這個直接其實影響到我們民眾的醫療的權益你像他們排這個CT電腦斷層還有MRI 實證照影常常都要"},{"start":7159.353,"end":7172.979,"text":"兩三個月甚至要到半年所以這我覺得這個人力的缺口已經嚴重影響到我們民眾醫療治療的權益那然後我們也了解看我們針對台灣這幾年來應屆畢業生"},{"start":7177.982,"end":7194.375,"text":"這個醫事放射師尤其我們查了一下像中山醫學大學他應屆畢業生我們看到這幾年我看這幾年他大概高達500人次都跑到新加坡去不知道部長針對這部分你有瞭解有掌握到這個狀況嗎為什麼會有這樣的情形"},{"start":7201.423,"end":7225.981,"text":"我補充這段是昨天在跟相關同仁在做一個了解的時候他們其實是表示是我們台灣訓練出來的數字很好然後新加坡開出來的薪資比較高所以對新手上路剛畢業的人而言他是一個吸力那同時我們台灣這邊面臨到的困境就是我必須把我們自己的吸力跟推力減少推力增加吸引力所以昨天在討論的過程當中"},{"start":7227.182,"end":7246.054,"text":"就包括了是我們的那個醫療機構設置這邊是不是能夠從我們的平靜的條文做一些改善不是再從病床數這邊然後另外一個心智的保障的部分昨天也大概有初步的一個了解所以這邊的話我們部裡面就是爭據這些的一個結論我們會再做政策調整以上"},{"start":7246.394,"end":7261.128,"text":"所以剛剛有提到所以這當然我們很欣慰說我們訓練出來的這些醫事人員很優秀可是也很可悲我們花了那麼多錢教育出來優秀的人才結果全部跑到國外去被他高薪"},{"start":7261.708,"end":7275.097,"text":"去挖角你看中山大學這幾年就500人次當然我們也了解因為他的薪水月薪大概12萬到15萬所以我們才會一直講說我們是不是在很多制度面應該要好好去檢討我們這些護理師人員還有"},{"start":7279.559,"end":7305.817,"text":"這個醫事放射師人員他說他們低薪高工時業務量大那當然我們最近很多的福利做得很好像乳癌年輕化乳癌年輕化他去做這個篩檢但是變成我們這些放射師他的工作量能就變得更大所以我們才會提出像我們健保總額跟公務預算我們現在發現加起來"},{"start":7306.718,"end":7332.557,"text":"超過一兆可是他們認為並沒有實質回饋在他們的身上所以我們才會提出像我們護理師的達標獎勵金還有夜班津貼還有我們醫事放射師的放射技術服務費是不是可以直接納入他們的薪資這部分才能實質回饋到他們的身上像護理師跟醫事"},{"start":7333.317,"end":7361.267,"text":"放射師情形都是一樣啊是不是應該實質回饋到他們薪資身上不然這麼多優秀的護理師放射師人員好不容易我們培養起來全部外流到國外去那部長這部分是不是應該要好好的來討論解答謝謝委員的提醒我們會特別關注在醫院裡面的這一些醫事人員的薪資還有他的工作條件我們會來討論一些方案來協助提升"},{"start":7361.967,"end":7389.787,"text":"因為這醫事放射師全聯會他們也有研議一些試辦計畫跟他放射服務費的增加與計算公式那在這邊我是不是可以等下會後我給部長你們拿回去研議一下再跟他們討論一下因為我們真的很擔心這些人才的外流以及嚴重影響到我們台灣的醫療品質那像這個部分回去研議大概三個月內可以回覆嗎"},{"start":7390.506,"end":7419.978,"text":"三個月了好那還有像我之前有提出護理師的達標獎勵金跟月班津貼一樣納入護理人員的薪資那這部分上次有提過那還沒有回覆我們會來這個調查一下清查一下盤點一下這個執行的情形那大概多久可以回覆那些本來就是要規定要給護理人員的那一個月內可以回覆處理情形嗎那個一個月我們查一下"},{"start":7420.518,"end":7445.438,"text":"好那這部分就拜託部長為了台灣的醫療品質和民眾的權益那拜託部長那這個資料就下給部長好謝謝謝謝圖權級委員發言那本席宣告待會兒這個本席亮偉翔委員詢答後休息五分鐘那先請蘇清泉委員"},{"start":7455.543,"end":7464.786,"text":"好 謝謝主席 大家辛苦部長 請署長護睡署專門委員部長辛苦啦 醫院就像一條船每一個人都很重要"},{"start":7482.406,"end":7503.198,"text":"準定大副、二副、準機長主崩的也很重要這麼準,台北人主崩也不能吃所以喪最重要,莫定大家都很重要台灣很重要醫院裡面有醫師有放射檢驗15個醫事相關人力"},{"start":7509.144,"end":7531.232,"text":"沒有說誰重要到不行但是婦理人員真的是很重要一個醫院婦理人力如果能夠搞定這個醫院差不多解這三分之二的事情所以保證得婦理界者得天下你把婦理搞定了你就可以出來選了來這是"},{"start":7538.14,"end":7556.357,"text":"急診室觀察床的護理點數,上面那個是703,那第二天開始629點喔,那是點不是人,護理的費用來下一頁,這個是經濟病床,一天是819點"},{"start":7559.74,"end":7586.219,"text":"那有另外一個是734那如果一個婦女能照顧10床就八千一百九十點但是是三班子喔三個人要搬喔所以搬下來一個人差不多兩千多那一個護理人員一個月上班上二十二天老計劃的規定所以一天兩千多二十二天差不多四萬幾個"},{"start":7589.073,"end":7601.893,"text":"ICU的,我昨天給他查了一下,他一天的護理費ICU,這裡面沒有ICU,沒有,沒有都說出來ICU三千九百幾點,有的是四千幾點,但是ICU是一個護士夠兩層"},{"start":7605.117,"end":7630.243,"text":"所以兩成都要八千多 也三萬多 也兩千多元所以一個人差不多四萬幾 四的喔這四萬幾還要喊他的退休準備金什麼什麼所以是遠遠不足啦 所以癥結就出在這裡啦處理說你們核定的點數太低嗎沒有啦沒有對不對委員你做的意見很清楚"},{"start":7633.038,"end":7654.937,"text":"不是這樣算啦因為我們還有很多的儲置費裡面都有人力費用啦所以放一個鼻胃管有一個費用啦所以這個護理費是基本的當然我們要調我們連續去年調25億今年還會再調25億所以我們四年會打算調100億都給護理費啦"},{"start":7657.984,"end":7671.442,"text":"把它調起來啊但是其他的費用在調的時候裡面也包含人力費用啦在ICU最明顯啦ICU會有很多處置裡面都有護理人員執行的費用所以不是把護理費一調啦啊你一個企業裡面有"},{"start":7675.261,"end":7694.635,"text":"清潔的有電力的有什麼東西都在裡面那個另外一筆是訂房費所以我要跟部長報告就是癥結點就在這裡昨天某一個醫學中心的院長跟我講他們的N1他們一年已經給他86萬了"},{"start":7697.679,"end":7716.414,"text":"年薪啦,這付不去嘛,但是平時也是拿其他地方來賺,那你以前的肚腩,大家都叫我們硬來切去,因為你什麼都做過,你負責急診一直做,幼稚園一直做到急診,做到什麼什麼公務,你都做了"},{"start":7719.076,"end":7745.788,"text":"你想知道這個問題是出在哪裡所以你剛剛講的我們很欣慰啦那對於中華民國在第一線執行護理的工作人員19萬人嘛那領召的30萬人我們對於在第一線執行的人我們都對他們非常的致敬跟最高的謝意啦台灣的那個健保能夠"},{"start":7747.25,"end":7762.191,"text":"世界第一名台灣的國民平均壽命能夠一年一年增加最大的貢獻者是護理人員因為一個病人跟護理人員接觸的時間是超過所有醫事人員瞎起來"},{"start":7763.554,"end":7782.246,"text":"有統計 差不多一個月兩次要跟病人差不多半個月八十個時間都跟護理監管接觸其他的醫師相關的都是很短暫醫師也是占5%到7%的時間所以護理人員是真的是要好好的照顧那這個負病比那個是"},{"start":7783.737,"end":7802.931,"text":"你們也是往這個方向在挪念嘛對不對雖然沒有入伐我為了跟從要入伐的事情提一個案被罵得要死不然我看人家沒在美麗耶不錯耶你不錯你都沒人在美麗所以你真的得婦女戒你要得天下你講一下我聽你講一下你這樣問我也要怎麼接"},{"start":7813.226,"end":7827.624,"text":"其實跟委員報告確實那個剛剛講的護理費我們在調嘛去年調了25億今年還會再調連四年要一共調100億進來那這次調我們特別去扣合那個薪資的成長"},{"start":7828.625,"end":7852.888,"text":"所以不是調薪去錢就進去醫院的口袋啦是一定要搭配那個護理人員的薪資要調升我們會監測那個投保薪資所以我們看起來確實投保薪資去年年中12月跟前一年113年的投保薪資都有增加沒有錯所以本來有在做啦所以不會說我們只把護理費調升結果護理人員都"},{"start":7853.308,"end":7866.558,"text":"都沒有薪資的調整 倒是我們很欣慰說大家有在做這方面的努力那我們會持續的來逐年逐年把它調升這個護理費的部分"},{"start":7867.322,"end":7890.219,"text":"至於偏鄉的部分我們現在是也在爭取公立醫院能夠讓醫護人員在偏鄉加急讓願意留在偏鄉的醫護人員因為多數偏鄉的所在都公立醫院所以我們公立醫院爭取行政院的預算我知道也有一些醫院"},{"start":7890.959,"end":7900.884,"text":"是在偏鄉的私立醫院我們更敬佩嘛所以我們來看看有什麼方式來一起協助你會主動講到偏鄉我很佩服你"},{"start":7903.326,"end":7925.058,"text":"三地離島啊 偏鄉啊 這個真的我們在做第一線 我在做第一線的重症我感觸想最深嘛 諸位區裡面這個醫院大部分都比較正常 諸位區裡面的人他們的保險也多 個人健康保險也多所以他們的對於醫療的給付 醫療額外支出他們都沒問題"},{"start":7926.315,"end":7945.746,"text":"整個吃飯就有些問題,大家又要吃土啊,你還有負的氣,那偏鄉的衣服呢,金門就找不到,金門就欠,就像你看的恆春半島,你如果在那裡不久,金門就找不到人,所以這點最重要。"},{"start":7948.491,"end":7972.5,"text":"剛才說得富你得天下,偏香港搞定了你也可以得天下所以我現在都給他幾點名錄,你以後要算都沒問題來,下一張那這個春節這個剛剛你也講很多了啦所以我覺得這個錢一定一定一定會回饋給所有的人力"},{"start":7973.776,"end":7996.201,"text":"錢最好是落到員工的口袋最好啦其他的都不重要現在最重要就是讓他們能夠有實質的回饋那你說80%多回饋給第一線嘛對不對對那這個可以這個很簡單啊你就看幾個三人三人的身份證資料回報回來一審查就知道了嘛那很簡單的啦對"},{"start":7997.113,"end":8014.179,"text":"健保署什麼都沒有,這最厲害啦要monitor你最厲害所以我對這個我一點都不擔心我們現在醫院真的大家都很戰戰兢兢雖然是很辛苦,大家忙很久兩天"},{"start":8016.886,"end":8021.41,"text":"對醫療院所要聽受啦,對醫務人員也要聽受啦,不然怎麼顧你我告訴你最近,我們屏東某醫院,其實沒有藏人住用坐的也坐到年齡,反正是站在吊墊上用手站這樣有誇張嗎?藏寶也不會進去"},{"start":8041.655,"end":8052.944,"text":"這個都要持續的關注啦都會去的醫院就好好的營造他的環境他就會做得很好了啦好來最後一個我們護睡署我三天前我找你署長我跟他說這說了怎麼說補貼給我答應"},{"start":8064.52,"end":8083.44,"text":"補充到財政部部長答應,說理財要改革,醫生的加班費、值班費,結果現在怎樣?陳時中次政委也出來協調,他告訴我這個案已經上議,行政院院長還在等,有沒有?補充有沒有?"},{"start":8090.488,"end":8100.998,"text":"我們一直在跟負稅署財政部跟還有這個人總大家都在討論所以差不多共識差不多了我們應該在"},{"start":8102.939,"end":8129.113,"text":"這個二月的時候我們就會發一個這個函給財政部來做這個未來這個醫師在加班費的這個認定跟他使用 加班跟值班啦對 加班跟值班 醫生已經十五年不夠年齡了耶十五年都沒頂檔了耶所以現在這個誘人啊 遭了了耶現在這個重症醫師傳播每個醫生都遭遭一開業"},{"start":8130.644,"end":8146.286,"text":"我那天有跟副市長說開業地也要處理啦 看要怎麼處理啦但是醫院這邊加班費吃飯川普總統你看他笑笑 但是他說加班費免稅 我覺得這真的不怪大家"},{"start":8147.808,"end":8174.311,"text":"公共一站加班費 值班費 還有小費免費 免稅啊所以不然你把人家帶成這樣我這件種族事件我還可以自己問喔沒關係 不可以這樣做這個一定要解決啊不然的話越來越嚴重很快會有好消息長庚醫院 停國長庚五個GS醫師一幫肝臟外科醫師最近三個跑去診所這像話嗎"},{"start":8176.193,"end":8180.314,"text":"部長這個太嚴重了 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝委員接下來我們請廖偉強 張偉來質詢"},{"start":8209.505,"end":8211.147,"text":"我們怎麼最後可以這麼快樂"},{"start":8244.94,"end":8245.641,"text":"謝謝主席 請時部長部長請"},{"start":8249.386,"end":8269.614,"text":"六點好部長好我要接續我們醫界很敬重我們的蘇清泉院長的問題你剛剛說醫師加班費免稅這件事你剛剛說很快會有好消息什麼時候我們追蹤很久了本來上次你跟我說今年就可以用了那到底是什麼時候"},{"start":8270.374,"end":8295.256,"text":"因為當然我們要釐清像剛剛這個蘇委員特別提到有的是加班有的是值班其實簡單講就是有正常工時制的跟輪班制的等一下部長怎麼說什麼時候有這個好消息應該你什麼時候公佈然後你們協調怎麼樣下個月我們大概協調的還有一次會議還有一次再一次就沒確定了嗎最後就拍板了"},{"start":8295.676,"end":8324.365,"text":"再一次會議就排版了所以最快是什麼時候會有定案2月農曆年前可不可以給一個好消息農曆年前你要這個對不對我們在講今天急診的像血汗醫護你要在農曆年前給大家一個小紅包吧過年以前我們發個函啦過年以前發函我們趕一下看看我們發函好過年以前可以發函喔我今天的質詢這樣子就有一個有一個成果"},{"start":8325.526,"end":8354.496,"text":"好那部長再來我要再剛這題剛這題你答應了過年前發汗好那再來就是我要問一下部長這個現在有這個多重病毒傳播國際化的問題那這個當然最近這個世界上動盪很大那部長美國的衛生部長小蘿蔔甘奈迪他說基於世衛與COVID-19的這個疫情期間的失職表現"},{"start":8355.663,"end":8357.907,"text":"美國已經正式要退出WHO"},{"start":8359.232,"end":8385.424,"text":"那他的副部長歐尼爾又說WHO忽視台灣在2019年對於COVID-19的早期示警陷入官僚主義利益衝突以及國際的權力政治但是世衛的專家范科霍夫卻說歐尼爾所說的完全不實他又說台灣並未警告世衛台灣是在同一天向世衛"},{"start":8387.06,"end":8410.394,"text":"這個索取資訊那是會沒有忽視台灣那我也注意到我們陳時中政委有反駁說台灣雖然沒有明確的說出會人傳人但是強調非典肺炎的特性且這個病患呢均隔離治療強烈的暗示人傳人的可能性那我想要請問一下部長台灣有確實依照"},{"start":8411.547,"end":8426.956,"text":"國際衛生條例IHR的第六條通報世衛但為何會出現這樣的資訊落差那我也有去看了一下這個IHR的條文跟附件通報的條文和適用的決策文件的實例的確不需要指名說人傳人"},{"start":8428.237,"end":8455.678,"text":"那就是要問一下部長現在美國要正式退出WHO那也打算成立新的國際衛生體系那我們未來會參加美國新成立的衛生體系嗎好 跟委員說明有關於當時候的通報2020年4月的時候指揮中心特別把當時候我們CDC發給衛生組織的那一個英文信公開給大家看上面明確的提到"},{"start":8456.198,"end":8474.779,"text":"那麼有幾例的有7例的Atypical pneumonia就是不典型肺炎的發生同時呢正在接受Isolated treatment就是隔離的治療所以這已經很明顯的暗示這是一個不尋常的這個可能有人傳染感染的風險"},{"start":8476.861,"end":8494.072,"text":"所以這個當時候可惜的是WHO忽略了台灣的這封信沒有及時的反映出說這個可能是一個人傳人的非典型肺炎所以確實我覺得這個美國次長所言是正確的"},{"start":8494.972,"end":8511.688,"text":"那麼至於說美國退出WHO我想對WHO的衝擊可能遠比對台灣的衝擊更大但是WHO仍然是目前重要的國際公共衛生醫療上面的一個"},{"start":8512.569,"end":8535.871,"text":"平台所以我們還是希望積極的爭取那麼參加那麼積極的參與活動那未來如果美國成立有另外的這個公共衛生的國際平台當然我們也會去積極的爭取加入那麼總是希望這個病毒或傳染病是沒有國界的所以意思就是說我們也會去爭取加入啦會會會"},{"start":8536.932,"end":8556.491,"text":"因為我也是在想說你剛剛的答案就是說兩個你們都還是要持續的參與因為我剛剛也是的確我是覺得說因為過去年年編預算你們發新聞稿說要爭取加入WHO可是其實剛剛你說的對WHO衝擊很大這個美國是帶頭大哥他都跑走了那這個組織的"},{"start":8559.734,"end":8580.312,"text":"資源大幅縮水所以我剛剛也是很想要問一下說那我們現在到底怎麼辦所以你現在一直說我們兩邊還是要持續爭取對好所以我想這個部分我們要拜託你要持續的追蹤希望可以持續的這個爭取實質的有意義的參與這些國際組織好再來我想要問一下"},{"start":8584.653,"end":8597.487,"text":"部長我們也可以看到台灣的現況現在台積電為主的相關產業鏈和最優秀的人才最充裕的資金都向美輸出但是根據台大醫院的研究以往在台灣極為罕見的這個"},{"start":8600.819,"end":8627.211,"text":"球黴菌症尤其在這個高風險族群如免疫力低下的相關的族群都可能會發生嚴重的肺部或這個擴散性的感染那在2021年前的我們我國只有一例但是最近呢這兩年它增加了12例也就是增加了變多了而且所有的病例呢都曾經赴美國的亞利桑那州跟加州"},{"start":8627.831,"end":8653.602,"text":"那其中有六成呢從事半導體相關的產業他的這個趨勢跟台灣半導體去亞利桑那州的擴張持續有點蠻吻合的啦所以這個患者多半雖然目前是這個所謂的輕微啦或感冒啦或者是肺炎但是如果是免疫力差的就會變重症喔那針對這波的病毒換人才的公共衛生逆差"},{"start":8654.382,"end":8674.453,"text":"那衛福部除了加強監測有沒有什麼具體的邊境的這個風險管控的方案那有沒有針對這部分的高風險的地區返台人才建立專屬的這個指引或者是通報的SOP或是像宣導這個立百病毒一樣加強宣導前往該地區的旅客應該注意的事項是"},{"start":8675.333,"end":8697.938,"text":"是跟委員說明確實如同我剛剛提到病毒或者是傳染病是沒有國界的而且隨著這個人員移動的頻繁它就會造成這個疾病的這個散播那所以這個加強監測都是我們CDC一直在做的事情那這個監測不只是監測國內也要監測全球發生的這個"},{"start":8703.199,"end":8723.331,"text":"變化統統要納入所以像立白病毒也是一樣雖然國內至今沒有驗出任何一例或者任何的確診病例可是因為國際有這個狀況為了強化這個通報監測及時察覺所以我們才會去預告說把它列為第五類傳染病那這個我們也會評估對我剛剛就是講到講的就是針對這一塊我們就"},{"start":8726.213,"end":8753.119,"text":"因為時間有限我就是要提醒部長這塊你可能也要去注意監控一下趕快去做相關的這個這個宣導是對不對那另外就是除了這個球媒菌症之外類似的傳播途徑啊跟這個各類的變種病毒的也是很多啦所以包含著你們有監測的這個中國大陸目前的鼻病毒那它的還有流感疫情都處於高點那國內也出現首例"},{"start":8754.12,"end":8774.191,"text":"這個俗稱這個蘋果病的B19的微小病毒那它會併發這個心肌炎那也有這個個案甚至我們台中啊有有名女童忽然在跟家人出遊的時候她就大叫一聲她就猝死了所以我想這個很多人都人心惶惶啦那所以大家會這麼害怕的原因主要是因為"},{"start":8774.771,"end":8794.769,"text":"目前這個B19病毒它好像沒有疫苗也沒有特效藥那會併發心肌炎的死亡率也高達30%所以現在面對這個春節返鄉草基層診所有沒有配備足夠的這種快篩或是診斷的試劑或是還是要等到他們必須送到這個醫學中心才可以確診"},{"start":8796.605,"end":8822.274,"text":"當然有一些比較罕見的病確實這個只能是提高警覺那適時的要要後送因為這個經驗的累積還是重要的所以我們會去強化所以我們有這個醫界通函經常會去提醒這個所有的第一線的人員注意那有發覺的時候就要通報後送這個還是有需要大概不太可能說這個"},{"start":8824.054,"end":8829.357,"text":"這些病都在第一線就完全治療大概我們是強化這個體系之間的這個轉診這樣好"},{"start":8833.752,"end":8859.752,"text":"那這個部分也是要提醒一下部長那另外就是剛剛最後因為其實今天題目蠻多的最後一天不過我最後還是問一下你們的這個APP你們現在去年的春節的急診擁塞的產況我想大家今天都很關注那你們預估急診人次也是平日的1.5倍到1.7倍左右那你們宣稱你們專案有七大監測指標那也針對這次的這個緊急醫療管理資訊系統"},{"start":8863.315,"end":8886.993,"text":"的部分我想要問說你沒有經過相關的壓力測試嗎因為你們每一秒可能都有幾萬筆的資料要更新等等的那你們可不可以承諾說到時候這個APP是不會當機不會延遲那另外你們更新是30分鐘有落差喔我在想因為很多就醫是很很緊急的狀況有沒有辦法做到10分鐘內更新等等的"},{"start":8888.84,"end":8909.375,"text":"那個EMIS的更新那個我們是跟醫院的資訊系統直接串接的所以它的更新我記得是兩分鐘幾分鐘我先補充一下就是說我們分兩塊一塊是民眾這邊就醫的是健保的那個健保快醫"},{"start":8910.296,"end":8925.591,"text":"然後那我們的那個在跟醫院接接的時候我們是那個急救責任是200多家醫院所以我們其實從1月12號之後其實就開始做所謂的壓力測試就是他們上傳資料然後那因為這個資料目前是手動的"},{"start":8926.252,"end":8952.731,"text":"目前是手動的所以他更新速度沒有辦法那麼快可是我們在這個調整過程當中如果要做自動化的話其實大概委員講的那個剛剛我們部長講的是已經自動化的他大概就可以做到就是那個10分鐘內絕對可以做update完現在是因為那個指標部分還在做標準化所以所以這個地方上面的那個更新的速度就沒那麼快指標還沒有那麼快嗎對指標還沒那麼快那什麼時候可以"},{"start":8954.281,"end":8980.244,"text":"就是你們打算什麼時候他可以就是你剛說手動的部分對手動的部分因為現在只有填數字所以也不會造成是說第一線同仁的困擾然後那預計就是這個春節完之後有一些東西因為我們的春節是這個大概就是七九天的假期嘛所以春節完之後最重要的是後面春節完通常才是急診用篩的一個"},{"start":8981.165,"end":9000.233,"text":"更恐怖的一個 另外一個要去調整的空間那個地方的話 我們是在那段時間會再去做調整對 以上OK 好 謝謝 以上謝謝 謝謝石部長好 謝謝委員好 謝謝廖委員 謝謝部長我們現在休息五分鐘接著期待林淑恩來時請"},{"start":9012.307,"end":9019.353,"text":"今天要親吻今天要親吻你們要先那個那個來示範一下"},{"start":9041.151,"end":9063.45,"text":"社保司啊 社會保險司啊社保司所以現在你社保司啊為什麼你現在不給我點名啊我不知道 我以為你叫我就給你點名啊你現在社保司社保司所以你可以點名劉市長 劉市長"},{"start":9070.332,"end":9071.813,"text":"看你臉變圓了我收保險先"},{"start":9093.222,"end":9093.242,"text":"劉醫師回來"},{"start":9121.71,"end":9140.468,"text":"要叫人家走嗎?他要走回去啊就是這樣嗎?這個有 這個有 這個有啊你詳細的可以講嗎?你先問你先問你先問你先問你先問你先問你先問"},{"start":9147.887,"end":9158.3,"text":"你可以去選日期比如說今年過年17號你就選時段上午 下午 下午要唱就下午就選時段點掉 看下午下午的話就選4"},{"start":9167.237,"end":9192.869,"text":"他就會跑出來說 這個就是下午的開檯他呈現的就是下午的開檯 包含醫院 包含診所在這個區域 他很清楚如果你要詳細知道 他有什麼特別的服務他開的是什麼科 那你就去看醫院去參考因為診所就沒有分科 那醫院就會分科那你再去看說 他開什麼科 那你就去看"},{"start":9195.074,"end":9211.079,"text":"這個時間還在休息 以後會是最完整的時間他只有半小時所以只要院所他們到上來 辦獎的時候就會點線上去因為如同今天部長講的 我們這22個縣市還有1個縣市會在開會因為我們獎金下去之後 很多人都會參與"},{"start":9217.861,"end":9221.024,"text":"像部立醫院醫療院醫療院醫療院醫療院醫療院醫療院醫療院"},{"start":9245.183,"end":9251.07,"text":"需要那麼看完還是資訊不完整我們調查的話是有一個時間下禮拜我們再發二月我們再發因為我們會去統計"},{"start":9265.927,"end":9274.253,"text":"各縣市的開診所以下禮拜會一起開診?對對對 各縣市的開診我剛講的就是全部 因為我們下禮拜還有各縣市的開診 還有專區查驗查診會不會有健保部門?"},{"start":9285.06,"end":9285.62,"text":"沒有端區域"},{"start":9304.687,"end":9321.871,"text":"而且就是像大家看的那樣,你要點進去看,點進去看才知道說今天你下一站,那這個專區就是直接把時段都拿出來了,日期的時段,過去是沒有啦,過去就是我在這裡,就會出現旁邊有什麼,然後就點進去,點進去看看有沒有看那個時段拍成這樣,"},{"start":9327.732,"end":9339.079,"text":"現在是直接整理 按照時段 日期設施出來醫院的部分反應很好人力上比較好調 醫院的人力比較好調這個獎勵技術大家都會學我都知道有些都要連班的方向"},{"start":9353.287,"end":9362.478,"text":"那診所的部份因為他人力比較吃緊他有的都是一人診所所以他就可能是他在猶豫的一段時間比較期待他的假期出來開診診所的部份"},{"start":9370.387,"end":9372.047,"text":"像台南 我知道他們調查過800多家"},{"start":9393.872,"end":9408.296,"text":"診所診所醫院沒有那麼多人 醫院就只加了五千人目標啦 目標啦要看哪一天啦 比較緊的還是在初一啦往後初三就開始保險了今年的狀況比較好 初三就保險了以前是二到四十度"},{"start":9423.741,"end":9434.631,"text":"還要在裡面居住所以他們現在各縣市公會也在裡面協調會員你好 會員一方指出這個主席到中山這個基層的主席到中山這個基層在中山所以有一些沒有 努力"},{"start":9443.906,"end":9455.192,"text":"目標啦 不是目前啦 目前大概到7%目前來的調查是有問題那過往會不會除以對 初三現在比較好 現在就是初一 初二初一 初一 初一最低"},{"start":9473.362,"end":9488.595,"text":"傳統上出於大家的不幸感所以大家就覺得我開了也沒有用沒有人來因為我們的家等級要有人來駕駛那裡沒有人要來駕駛所以我們試試看也不要說真的很多啦出於真的差別的人數現在不太多但是我們去年是特寫的去年出於這個"},{"start":9524.202,"end":9524.803,"text":"來不好意思這個"},{"start":9529.103,"end":9536.306,"text":"好謝謝媒體朋友那我們現在繼續開會那請林淑芬委員發言好謝謝主席我們是不是請石部長請石部長林委員早部長這個中榮的這個業務到底有沒有帶到"},{"start":9559.443,"end":9585.538,"text":"到底有沒有抄刀你說要一個禮拜給大家報告早超過一個禮拜了這個以他送來的這個報告他送來的報告我們都知道是說沒有但他送來報告說沒有之後人家影像就曝光了所有的媒體都看過了人民也看過了就是有你現在還在講他送來的報告你知道你們醫師法"},{"start":9587.279,"end":9606.212,"text":"怎麼規範密醫行為6個月以上5年以下嘛對不對可是醫生有什麼責任你們的醫師法如果醫師法28條之4聘僱容留密醫去執行這個手術你們28條之4對醫師怎麼處罰有刑責嗎 你先回答我有沒有刑責"},{"start":9616.328,"end":9627.452,"text":"容留啊容留跟聘僱密醫來幫我做手術這個醫師有沒有刑責容留的部分沒有了聘僱有沒有聘僱容留容留跟聘僱通通都沒有你們的醫師去找一個密醫來幫他帶刀只有罰10萬到50萬你覺得這個機制這樣子"},{"start":9645.305,"end":9662.352,"text":"公平嗎那個密醫是有刑責但是聘僱密醫的人的醫師沒有刑責罰十萬元可以了事這樣醫生敢去請密醫來操刀嗎大家也敢"},{"start":9664.053,"end":9666.035,"text":"你覺得這種法律的設計有沒有公平?沒有公平 太檢討沒有公平嘛 第一 你知道 我跟你說過嘛在開刀房裡面 醫師 護理師 麻醉科醫師 大家都參與其中"},{"start":9684.332,"end":9710.078,"text":"病人可以告他們加重詐欺是不能緩刑的非關不可的喔但是檢舉的人自己就有刑責不能緩刑的不能一顆罰金的加重詐欺喔我說過嘛但是我要問你崔少哲保護法能不能保護讓這個崔少哲揭弊的人可以免除刑責可不可以"},{"start":9713.083,"end":9722.072,"text":"你不知道好我先問你吹哨者保護的揭弊的對象限於什麼資格他揭弊的範圍"},{"start":9723.908,"end":9749.09,"text":"不涉及私人企業啦你懂嗎所以只有公部門的醫院公立醫院的接避者可以讓這個吹哨者保護法去協助給他網住接住現在我問你公立醫院占整體醫院幾個百分比我們的大概是20個百分比"},{"start":9750.171,"end":9764.456,"text":"所以有八成八成的醫院而且私立醫院才是這種讓業務操刀的可能問題更多私立醫院的接避者是得不到接避者保護的"},{"start":9766.144,"end":9777.541,"text":"所以他們怎麼接避你說三個手段嘛你的三個手段就是組一個調查小組第二個訂一個手術室指引第三個請醫策會積極輔導這個東西有辦法"},{"start":9783.488,"end":9808.161,"text":"解決這個問題嗎 有限 有限啦 不中我現在要跟你說 我再跟你講一次 接避者保護的這一個機制對私立醫院的接避者來講很重要你說要怎麼處理這個事情 沒有比接避出來接避免除刑責的這一個保護機制更重要的 好"},{"start":9809.261,"end":9822.71,"text":"那醫師法28條之4醫師去聘僱一個密醫來操刀沒有刑者只有罰10萬 這個事情你應該去討論一下那我現在一併要跟你討論的是"},{"start":9825.199,"end":9829.74,"text":"我們希望你藉著這次事件一併修正改進我下面要講的這一個議題這個議題就是說啊你劉月餅市長在這我先抱怨一下他說你們就根據中榮的報告業態沒有操刀然後劉市長你說啊醫學院畢業大家都資優生畢業的醫生給他們寄生借就很可惜不可能"},{"start":9854.846,"end":9867.855,"text":"不可能會這樣做啦那個劉市長天兵啊厲害啦但我現在不是要講這個現在教學醫院當中除了主治醫師通常還會有"},{"start":9869.438,"end":9890.18,"text":"醫院的門診除了主治醫師有時候就是住院醫師 實習醫生或是PGY因為是教學醫院但他們這些教學醫院的門診在主治醫師的指導下他會進行病史詢問 病理學的檢查病人可以自由選擇是不是要接受教學服務"},{"start":9891.641,"end":9914.607,"text":"他可以自由選擇要不要有其他醫師在場他可以告訴這個主治醫師嘛他有執行權因為他沒有被麻醉嘛 他意識清楚嘛所以他可以選擇權他說我這個不想要但是也有很多醫師啊大牌的醫師啊在門診的時候掛號的時候就已經揭露了"},{"start":9915.187,"end":9928.703,"text":"本診為教學門診診療時會有住院醫師、實習醫師跟診學習如果你不方便我就是一定要教你不方便你不要來看這一診這也是一個方法"},{"start":9929.964,"end":9956.841,"text":"但是呢 我要講的 這狀況很容易監督啊因為病人意識清楚啊 有資訊告知啊有執行權啊 病人也有選擇權啊隨便你要不要 我就是要教學也在教學當中 我們的醫療技術也在進步也是靠這個 也是要純誠啊當然是要靠這樣子進步但是我要問你是教學手術呢"},{"start":9957.862,"end":9961.994,"text":"教學手術保證到自己的知情權和選擇權"},{"start":9965.748,"end":9991.527,"text":"教學手術就是手術當中有有實習醫師或者是學生在旁邊對啊他是教學型的手術操作我想這個手術過程當中也是一個在醫學生學習或者是這個住院醫師也好實習醫師也好對啦我現在講的是有沒有知情權有沒有讓這個因為被麻醉躺在那裡啊誰進來手術事實上不知道啦那我的意思是說"},{"start":9992.708,"end":9999.37,"text":"你們現在的這個設計步驟程序有沒有讓被手術的人知情有沒有可做選擇的選擇權就像門診你都這麼縝密了連門診大家都這麼做了那操刀的風險是更大的那操刀的程序裡面教學型的手術操作這個受術者有沒有這一些規範"},{"start":10024.495,"end":10047.155,"text":"這個兩個層面第一個就是說過去我們有訂了這個教學的指引裡面把這些倫理規範要求進去那麼住院的部分跟這個手術的部分我們來檢討一下剛剛有沒有需要去擴充之前的那個門診我們現在不是在講倫理規範我們現在講的就是制式規定世代已經走到現在來了"},{"start":10050.538,"end":10073.788,"text":"為什麼要講呢 教學手術除了 大家知道沒有告知這個病人 因為手術要填寫一個同意書嘛你們自私的手術同意書的內容就是疾病名稱 建議手術名稱 建議手術的原因醫師的生名 手術負責醫師的姓名專科別簽名 病人生名 立同意書人姓名病人的關係人簽名"},{"start":10075.308,"end":10093.577,"text":"但門診是意識清醒的 但手術的受術者是意識不清醒的所以其實是只有填寫這一個手術同意書是不夠的2021年張基的院長陳木寬大家都知道瘋者的風風雨雨"},{"start":10095.875,"end":10123.707,"text":"則目關遭多名離職的醫護人員指控偽造開刀房的記錄 詐領保險費 涉及不法還踢爆他一天就排17刀 而人在台北開會髒話還有掛名的手術在進行不僅如此 還有離職的醫師爆料說一天三四十刀都是常態"},{"start":10125.748,"end":10144.485,"text":"醫生遭到霸凌離職了就這樣子檢舉然後醫院說前置後續作業可由醫療團隊執行主導醫師可以到另外一間手術進行手術關鍵部分然後所以那個張基就出了一個聲明"},{"start":10145.606,"end":10172.553,"text":"他說手術參與的醫師有團隊總醫師住院醫師主刀醫師組織醫師以上繁雜卻必要的程序不可能由主刀醫師一人完成由醫療團隊們進行關鍵步驟之外的前置與後續在此同時主刀醫師便可以到另外一間手術為另外一個病人進行手術關鍵的部分好他講的原則我們都同意但真正的是這一個"},{"start":10173.613,"end":10200.66,"text":"院長當天到底是不是這樣子 那可就不一定啦他們的聲明講的我們都同意但真正操作的是不是如聲明所講的 不知道捏像一天三四十刀 像生產線一樣麻醉之前露個臉 下面之後是誰開的 不知道欸所以我常說這是一個模糊的地帶"},{"start":10203.049,"end":10218.761,"text":"那有沒有需要再更精緻的規範啊手術當中到底有幾個醫師動刀病人在上手術台以前有沒有基本的知情權啊部長手術教學的風險會不會高手術的風險總是高於門診的風險 教學嘛"},{"start":10230.208,"end":10242.785,"text":"那病人的安全保障應該比看門診的時候還更嚴謹啊他的知情權也應該要更獲得保障啊那他要不要有選擇權也應該要有啊所以在這種狀況你覺得呢"},{"start":10248.42,"end":10271.162,"text":"跟委員說明以現在來講我們剛剛提到的三個層次第一個過去已經在門診需要有告知知情的部分我們來研議把它納入那特別是學生的部分大概都OK因為意識清醒也沒有辦法變住院跟手術的部分我們來研修這是第一個第二個"},{"start":10271.983,"end":10291.439,"text":"有所謂的接刀或跨刀的情形這個確實會有這個需要那但是我們也把它訂出一個原則出來那第三個呢那實務上呢可以透過我們健保的申報可以了解它的合理性我們去勾結一下那些高量當初這個案件來市長你當市長了嗎當初張基這個案件"},{"start":10295.11,"end":10300.195,"text":"狀況怎麼樣好你提供給我一個調查報告沒關係好來我現在再問一下就曾經有一個離譜的案件安裝心臟支架的手術主治醫師是為了訓練住院醫師這個我覺得是一定要這樣子嘛教學嘛教學相長然後大家都"},{"start":10315.689,"end":10333.791,"text":"一定要這樣子來學習嘛但是呢他在訓練的過程裡面在沒有告知病人的狀況裡面放手讓這個住院醫師去指導結果發生安裝的疏失了最後主治醫師推卸責任推卸給住院醫師"},{"start":10335.793,"end":10353.994,"text":"結果家屬自始至終的蒙在鼓裡根本不知道這台攸關性命的手術除了主治醫師之外還有住院醫師也參與指導所以這大家就說你隱瞞病人術後推諉因為發生事情了才講說這不是我來住院"},{"start":10355.114,"end":10383.37,"text":"在這種狀況這責任的確是責任在你們現行的規範裡面責任屬誰你告訴我主治醫師啦這個醫病關係的建立是在主治醫師的我說法律責任法律責任也是啊因為在這裡面是你授權嘛你授權那你在這裡面破壞了病患對你主治醫師的信任以外但病患都不知道操刀的是住院但是我們如果沒有這一個過程你怎麼訓練"},{"start":10384.932,"end":10396.741,"text":"住院醫師呢那這個責任要怎麼界定因為沒事情就沒事情嘛有事情要怎麼辦我現在問你你說你瘦了這樣沒人要做責任很清楚因為這個醫病關係的建立是在組織醫師所以這個責任是很清楚但是這一些情形為了"},{"start":10408.971,"end":10427.268,"text":"我們不是也通過了一個醫療事故預防及正義處理法其實就是要解決像這一類的事情他並不是故意所為但是就有這樣的發生你完全把責任歸咎於他但我的意思是說責任上是這樣沒有錯那現在病人"},{"start":10428.53,"end":10447.129,"text":"他是第一線的第一線第一線直接就如果有疏失當然不是故意你免刑者沒關係但是他是第一線就是受害的那他這種病人難道不應該有知情權在事前要知情要同意吧"},{"start":10448.018,"end":10476.235,"text":"所以知情很重要知情而且要取得他同意吧如果沒有的話會不會很糟糕這個在倫理上也是需要啦知情一定需要啦那事後的告知也是需要我們在那個醫療事故預防性正義處理法就有談到這個事後發生的事情也要告知嘛我現在跟你說那要不要事前同意事前也要啊對不對現在有這種知情和同意權嗎現在"},{"start":10478.423,"end":10502.208,"text":"我們來規範你們現在沒有啦所以我們現在手術同意書的規範不足是否為教學手術參與動刀的醫師有誰我們都要透明嘛那是否涉及新進的技術或設備要不要告知手術的我應該是講的是說在"},{"start":10503.808,"end":10530.235,"text":"這個手術同意書上要不要擴充到包含手術的團隊那麼中間有沒有涉及到你如果是教學型的有住院醫師有誰要來可能會涉及到Involve到裡面要教學啊那要不要告知那涉及到新進的技術或設備要不要告知新進的技術或設備要不要告知"},{"start":10532.119,"end":10534.005,"text":"這個告知要到什麼程度我們來研議的所以我現在在講就是說"},{"start":10540.959,"end":10560.46,"text":"整個中榮的案件的核心不是只有業帶是不是進入手術室其實更核心是我們國家對於新進的醫療技術跟設備是否已經有清楚的規範到操作的資格和訓練的門檻"},{"start":10563.069,"end":10567.454,"text":"你都一直說 業代比他更容易做啊醫生不要 業代要來幫忙組裝啊來幫忙協助啊但我就從這裡來問你們這樣子的問題難道你們都不用去規範新進的技術越來越多與時俱進"},{"start":10582.771,"end":10607.338,"text":"新進的醫材設備這麼多與時俱進那你不用去規範每一種新的進來食藥署如果核准了一種了那你的訓練門檻要不要規範要不要現在有沒有規範我們在特管辦法就是醫療法的授權辦法有個特管辦法裡面有一些特定的技術是有規範的它就有一些門檻"},{"start":10608.939,"end":10633.195,"text":"像新的像Proton新導管的不是一般的新導管有一些新的那種會刮除的那種的新導管速適風險比較高的高的他有規範在裡面什麼資格那像達文西手術也是一樣他一定要受過幾台的跟刀訓練之後他才能夠獨立操作才能取得執行的資格那每個都已經規範完整了嗎但是沒有辦法"},{"start":10635.101,"end":10638.936,"text":"不可能完全啦所以我們隨時就調整就調整這樣"},{"start":10640.55,"end":10669.12,"text":"對 所以有人講說你對於這個病人安全始終是醫療行為的首要考量你曾經這樣講嗎醫生面對新興的醫療技術必須接受完整的訓練醫生在過去的訓練當中可能會碰到新的技術或設備你曾經說例如達文西手術系統在他還是醫師訓練的階段可能沒有接觸過但在未來醫師要操作這類設備當然必須要接受訓練那你也說過"},{"start":10670.1,"end":10688.111,"text":"病人安全才是最重要的醫療人員至少不能傷害病人所以訓練訓練絕對是必要的所以你講了兩種嘛第一種第一種訓練是模擬訓練嘛那像達文西手術系統就有模擬機可以讓醫師在模擬環境當中學習操作"},{"start":10688.931,"end":10694.62,"text":"第二種是實務訓練許多國外的做法是讓受訓醫師有經驗的醫院具備經驗的醫師帶領一下學習也不是交給業務代表來教導不是"},{"start":10704.895,"end":10733.577,"text":"可是你知道現在很多醫院喔你到醫院去陸陸續續都會看到號稱全國第一套某種儀器設備全國第一套經常那這些醫院在引進新興的醫療設備發布新聞稿說我們今天終於幾月順利完成裝機再幾月要開始實施手術經常常常上一個月完成裝機下個月就要做"},{"start":10734.422,"end":10734.647,"text":"手术"},{"start":10735.629,"end":10764.808,"text":"那用這個當廣告那作為提升醫療服務造福病人的主要宣傳和訴求但是作為病患和家屬我們希望的新設備不僅是要快我們希望的是操作的人操作的能力操作的專業要完善和安全可是你們的特管辦法裡面沒有辦法更改的速度沒辦法改這麼快"},{"start":10765.889,"end":10786.834,"text":"新的醫材設備發展的速度比你的法律還快啊那怎麼辦 這些高階的儀器設備你們沒有辦法 現行的法規沒有辦法發展的那麼快那你們要求實際操作人員需要具備合格的証明也來不及要求 這樣要怎麼辦"},{"start":10789.2,"end":10813.4,"text":"這個我們來研究一下就是更新不急的問題可能要從源頭因為這些比較侵入性比較侵犯性的都是從FDA就許可所以我們要從前端開始如果他這個在查驗登記的時候要許可的時候那麼這個就是屬於有高門檻的就應該要直接寫進他的訪單裡面"},{"start":10814.981,"end":10838.437,"text":"就是要求你要受過什麼訓練才能夠操作這台儀器的我們過去在醫財部等位他會這麼清楚就知道風險是什麼嗎所以未來我們要建立這個技術我們來檢討從源頭開始所以你的實際操作人員操作這種儀器要不要定合格操作的合格門檻最低訓練時數標準化的訓練程序達到門檻之後才能夠執行相關手術"},{"start":10844.841,"end":10864.831,"text":"所以簡單的講就是說未來我們在審查這一類的比較侵犯性或者是很新的高科技的東西不是只有在審查文件還要去詢問這個專業醫學會的意見能夠操作這個的是不是要有一些人員的限制那現在有這樣子跑嗎還沒有現在都沒有嗎對我們來檢查所以現在實務上就是業務人員在教學"},{"start":10873.376,"end":10893.128,"text":"所以你們是現在交給廠商在教學你剛才講到一個重點我們的醫學會難道是擺著放著而已嗎所以現在你們交給廠商會發生什麼問題有媒體報導指出部分醫生對於設備組裝流程不熟悉實際操作時一旦發生問題緊急聯絡的是廠商業務人員到場"},{"start":10899.131,"end":10917.899,"text":"所以在這種狀況裡面 我想作為主管機關 保證你覺得說目前這樣是不合理的吧也不符合醫療安全要求的常態作業吧現在是這樣喔 這樣你要長久的時間要改進我們把這一套制度 我們把它研究要研究多久 三個月"},{"start":10922.241,"end":10930.193,"text":"我們希望這些新進的醫療技術和儀器設備的合作合格的操作標準訂出最低的訓練時數這個可以交給醫學會啊我們業必歸會要幹嘛業必歸會讓他們業"},{"start":10937.082,"end":10954.647,"text":"會裡面可以他們自己對會員有這個自律去管理嘛所以不是交給業代那你知道婦產科內市競技微創醫學會他們規範的婦科機器所被協助下微創手術醫師資格認證婦產科這個就訂的很詳細喔他說"},{"start":10959.288,"end":10985.458,"text":"必須是台灣婦產科醫學會認證的婦產科專科醫師才能夠執行第二個至少要執行20例的婦科手術含開腹或及腹腔鏡手術其中腹腔鏡手術需要占10例以上並需要有主刀者手術紀錄第三參與本學會舉辦或本學會認可的機械手臂輔助婦科手術相關課程8小時"},{"start":10987.881,"end":11000.065,"text":"第四 機械手臂操作要12個小時 含模擬機和實機操作保長你也稍微聽一下我聽你說婦產科醫學會在規定有有很多啦 包括你必須至少參與一台的動物實驗擬真組織大體或AI模擬訓練以及至少一台的機械手臂輔助婦科手術觀摩或擔任助手經驗或是"},{"start":11015.231,"end":11021.123,"text":"至少10台機械手臂輔助婦科手術觀摩或擔任住所經驗這兩項則依記錄就可以了然後"},{"start":11025.42,"end":11047.432,"text":"執行醫師新取得認證資格後一年內如果沒有單獨主刀執行機械手臂相關輔助的手術則暫停其資格需要再接受再培訓課程使得恢復資格那如果要擔任指導醫師當然更嚴謹那我的意思是說我看這個啦我覺得婦科"},{"start":11049.514,"end":11076.116,"text":"這個是什麼醫學會叫做婦產科內試競技微創醫學會的規範其實是蠻完整的那從上述的規範可以證明專科醫學會在這個制度當中可以扮演更積極的角色新進的醫療技術和設備的合格操作標準最低的訓練門檻指定醫師的資格這個專業的自律範疇真的不要交給醫院更不能交給廠商"},{"start":11078.237,"end":11103.477,"text":"應該要交給醫學會那你們不可以憑以形式說從中榮事件你訂一個限縮在開刀房秩序業務人員不得帶刀這麼簡單粗糙的指引而是你必須從制度層次全心去檢視新技術導入後的訓練認證和責任架構是否健全"},{"start":11104.398,"end":11118.929,"text":"所以你要去統籌結合各專科醫學會針對不同類型的新進醫療技術建立分級分專科的操作案訓練指引而不是一個概括性的手術開刀房的指引"},{"start":11120.251,"end":11133.646,"text":"所以在這種狀況對病患而言我覺得站在病患的角度立委最重要我們要緊的不是你多快用上最新的設備而已而是能不能再確信執行手術的醫療團隊已經具備充分的專業訓練和經驗"},{"start":11139.532,"end":11154.201,"text":"而不是在默許現在的醫療技術資本競逐的過程當中任由科技和新興的醫材的風險轉嫁給病人自己去承擔不能這樣子啊"},{"start":11156.811,"end":11168.556,"text":"你給我最後我就只想講你們跟各個醫學會開會每開完一次會給我們一次報告給我們委員會報告那你們三個月內你們到底開了幾次會達成什麼共識討論出什麼"},{"start":11171.357,"end":11190.062,"text":"可以都送我們未還委員會給大家報告一下嗎可以可以 我們把這整個這個制度把它規劃好不要變成開刀房 開刀房的指引而已喔不會不會不會 從源頭啦對對對 好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝林淑芬委員發言接下來請盧憲毅委員發言有請部長"},{"start":11200.684,"end":11226.46,"text":"請石部長好 羅遠 早部長 針對那個國民年金會有三個問題問你就是說現在的版本很像是突然調高到八千到一萬二那我想說先確認財源的部分就是中央跟地方的一個分攤的部分我看到我們那個執政黨現在是希望有中央跟地方來有一些比例 按照他的財政的一個來源"},{"start":11227.521,"end":11234.351,"text":"那如果說按照國民黨跟民眾的版本是希望是完全是中央來支撐那你的態度是什麼"},{"start":11236.308,"end":11259.749,"text":"跟委員報告現在我們談的有幾個不同的項目就是在這個基本數的部分會涉及到保險給付跟津貼那我們現在目前的設計就是提高的部分的差額是由就是院的版本是由中央來支付第二個就是"},{"start":11260.61,"end":11282.217,"text":"關於商帳給付的爭議就是希望說能夠增加到10個月那現在你們提的版本是大概商帳商帳我們沒有在這一次我們的這個增加的範圍裡面因為它是一次性的我們這一次修法主要是針對那個年金的部分的保障"},{"start":11282.837,"end":11306.246,"text":"配偶的罰則 因為它其實沒有設計很大的預算是不是應該立即施行配偶罰則我看幾位委員也有這個版本我們行政院的版本也是把它刪除的盡快可以審查之後就可以實施針對這次的急診主題就是想要問一些問題為什麼只有13處的UCC"},{"start":11309.216,"end":11329.376,"text":"這個是一開始我們針對當然一開始是想到那個庸塞的醫院主要都是在六都啦所以先從六都試辦那未來呢我們會按照這個民眾的需求會去評估是不是在其他的縣市也會擴大那我們先用試辦完之後再來檢討就是醫療院所只有一個是診所"},{"start":11330.057,"end":11358.986,"text":"那我想說這個一個診所他目前到現在為止跟其他醫院的那個他所服務的量的比較有沒有特別不好還是特別好還是差不多根文報告因為我們在這一次設UCC的時候的一個考量就是希望能夠一站式服務所以他不是像一般的診所他要能夠提供X光那他要提供這個檢驗還要能夠提供藥品才不會讓病人進來到處去轉診跑來跑去因為我看到那個所以要"},{"start":11359.526,"end":11384.802,"text":"同時達到這三個條件那個診所的規模要比較大我看到五大症狀我覺得說如果要用到醫院的陳檢像是大採小用我是想說是不是應該是比較剛剛講的那幾個規模有的話就可以懲罰不然這樣子的話只有13處然後全國這麼多地方而且只有六都才有那我們就在屏東的還有就在台東就是只會流口水"},{"start":11385.262,"end":11401.291,"text":"那我想說這次我們這個急診的大概你說目前是只有開診率是17%那我們這個偏鄉地區怎麼辦開診率啊就是過年的開診率我們現在還在調查當中那這個在"},{"start":11403.852,"end":11426.658,"text":"以台東來講啦 這個醫院都開了啦是嗎 醫院都開了對 醫院都開了 診所的部分還在鼓勵啦我剛剛現在聽到你們講到APP的部分是不是我 比如說我今天旅行到南投好了那我是不是我周圍10公里內的有開業的診所或者是醫院就會如果有需求的我可以查得到嗎我們那個APP就是先選你在哪個縣市 哪個區"},{"start":11428.078,"end":11456.813,"text":"然後區域之後還可以選你這個是哪一天你在哪一天今天是哪一天你是要看上午還是下午還是晚上時段然後選完之後它就有開的通通就會列出來民眾已經可以完全的就是說上手了嗎有去實地去試看看嗎我們剛上線今天才剛上線我是覺得你可以做一個evaluation比如說一個禮拜一個月以後一個月我們再調整然後下禮拜我們正式發布新聞稿"},{"start":11457.674,"end":11466.522,"text":"我剛剛看到UCC的一些就是說申請的或者說一些懶人包那我比較沒有看到就是說針對UCC這個部分它有沒有所謂的考評"},{"start":11467.915,"end":11490.951,"text":"你們以後針對他們的這個以後他們的績效或是怎麼樣我們有幾個KPI啦除了看診量之外還有一個就是民眾的就醫滿意度那個都有在評估裡面最後就是我們針對我們醫療獎勵金發放的這個部分當然很多人都在講說加班費或是值班費應該免稅啦當然我們是百分之百支持"},{"start":11491.511,"end":11505.767,"text":"那是不是各個類型的子斑肺炎所以有些的名稱都不太一樣所以你要怎麼去全部那邊在裡面比如說我們3D離島那個叫做它的名稱就叫IDS嘛"},{"start":11506.908,"end":11534.967,"text":"真的是可以納入在這次所謂的加班費值班費的一個免稅的因為這個這個其實對像我們偏鄉服務的人其實大部分的收入都是來自於這些他明明就是值班費可是他的名稱不是這個名稱嘛他就是什麼醫療獎助計畫然後那個名稱所以我是覺得說是不是應該全部全面只要是醫護人員領到的相關的這個費用只要是關於值班費應該是加入納入那個免稅的範圍"},{"start":11536.288,"end":11564.968,"text":"對 跟委員說明就是說在醫院的工作人員除了醫師以外都納入勞基法所以勞基法他就有工時規定跟他加班費免稅這已經適用那我們現在處理的是因為醫院沒有納入勞基法所以他的很多加班費他沒有辦法適用免稅規定所以才有這一次這個議題的討論那我們現在在計算的時候就醫師的部分我們是用他的總收入除以總工時所以即使你去IDS他也算入工時也算入收入所以他會被納在裡頭"},{"start":11566.008,"end":11585.25,"text":"這個解決的方向對對對對那最後就是關於那個獎勵金的那個他確實有沒有領到是不是一個申訴專線啊或者申訴的制度啊讓醫護人員去不要因為醫院的一些他的考量而延遲發放或者是說沒有發放給他是不是要讓醫護人員知道有這方面的一個訊息"},{"start":11585.771,"end":11609.464,"text":"好 我們同步也在新聞稿裡面也把它提出來我們是有一個護理的那個爭議的申訴平台那因為這次可能還涉及到其他我們看看是不是用同樣的平台我看到一個所謂的門診打抗申訴這個部分就是OPAT那如果說他確實是在家裡需要一些諮詢的話他要怎麼來跟相關的醫療人員來聯絡"},{"start":11611.645,"end":11633.658,"text":"我在家裡打疫苗 打抗生素結果我有一些醫療的問題我要怎麼去呈現我們這個OPAT的這個方案都是要求醫院要設立那個專線的就是他在過程當中有需要他有可以接觸的窗口 都有所以我們才有給管理費"},{"start":11634.178,"end":11653.48,"text":"我一個建議就是說其實在各個衛生局的那個窗口其實可以用一個APP就是說讓今天我原本放假可是後來我不想放假可是我有些地方可以去值班或者是去做這些諮詢的服務的一個工作因為一定會遇到一些人力的問題嘛"},{"start":11654.361,"end":11682.737,"text":"那我覺得我們常常會卡在什麼報備啊這些東西所以如果說你是把這些醫療的量能把它放在我們的衛生局的一個平台上面的話如果說我今天想要上班然後我就可以去看比如說恆春這邊可能缺醫生或者是缺護理人員我可以就就可以即時去報備然後我就可以去做這樣一個支援的動作其實也可以相對簡體我們偏向的這個醫療的量那個服務量"},{"start":11683.237,"end":11690.42,"text":"那是很好的主意,我們來研究看看,看看怎麼做這個,謝謝盧委員好,謝謝盧縣議委員發言,接下來請王振旭委員發言好,謝謝主席,我們還是請石部長"},{"start":11711.212,"end":11729.393,"text":"部長好 今天有兩個題目想要跟部長來討論一個就是強化我國癌症學名藥的韌性那第二個部分就是醫事人員繼續教育公職任內的部分不過扣著今天的主題我還是先請教一下就是針對假日及連續假期重疾"},{"start":11731.807,"end":11758.182,"text":"分級醫療政策的執行成效與改善方向的書面報告的第二頁裡面剛剛有蠻多委員都有關心到就是說UCC的服務好像當初設計是經過地方衛生局的評估那目前有13處那在執行的成果到現在剛好幾乎要兩個月這個兩個月以來就是服務的部分呢"},{"start":11758.786,"end":11782.131,"text":"看到就是有點好像白冷藍熱就是台北市現在平均每個月200人次那台南市就有到800人次當初在推估的時候有沒有設想到這些各方面的可能性有什麼因素 再來有什麼就是很快能夠有應變的方案"},{"start":11783.232,"end":11797.989,"text":"跟委員說明 當時候我們也是在開設之前都有導衛生局還有專業學會 急診醫學會大家來討論那時候的幾個原則是第一個希望是民眾就醫在社區裡面方便的地方"},{"start":11799.17,"end":11823.589,"text":"能夠提供一站式的服務啦至少要能夠做檢查檢驗基本的檢驗檢查還有提供藥品第三個很重要的是說希望鄰近這個庸塞的醫院達到分流的效果所以才會做我們是給這個原則然後由衛生局去責定所以這個台北市確實他現在責定的三個點"},{"start":11824.85,"end":11847.952,"text":"看起來績效並不好所以我們也提到當時候就講十四半年後因為這是一個事半十四半年後會再進行檢討因為我們比較擔心就是算那個點當初也評估過如果說真的無法像台中的點也慢慢在增加那桃園有的點也很好量也很大"},{"start":11849.874,"end":11868.408,"text":"台南就更不用說它是功能非常好的如果店不是說很好寫那有什麼其他的配套給他更方便一點好這就是根據今天的主題先跟部長請教的部分那第二個其實就是有關於這個癌症學名藥的韌性這個會牽涉到有關於"},{"start":11871.595,"end":11892.723,"text":"帶品韌性一個很重要的部分那我一直都很關心癌症病友他們在接受醫療過程裡面有沒有好的這個完整的配套那其實也很謝謝我們在健保署在113年7月份就啟動了生物相似性的藥品的鼓勵示範計畫那這個示範計畫到現在為止看起來的確從112年的這個生育"},{"start":11899.44,"end":11911.109,"text":"相似藥的一定量是有明顯的上升那謝謝部長跟署長這段時間真的很用心的去讓達到這個三贏的這個可能性從原來的113年的7.38%"},{"start":11913.291,"end":11920.133,"text":"提升到11.9%所以根據這麼良好的示範計畫的成果就從生物相試藥又把它擴大到所謂的化學"},{"start":11935.436,"end":11956.461,"text":"治療學名藥這個有點繞口啦因為到底這個癌症用藥對民眾來講就是抗癌用藥所以他比較難了解什麼是生物相似藥什麼是學名藥等一下還有標靶還有免疫用藥等等那我們也知道這個其實是一個非常好的方向"},{"start":11957.025,"end":11985.982,"text":"那也透過這些止血的方式尤其是獎勵措施的確能夠發揮的這個臨床的這個引導作用那如果說把這個化學藥用進來以後其實他就會有所謂的口服跟增劑一般來講生物相似藥都是增劑那如果針對這個化學一般說的那個化療的化學藥物的玄尼藥的話他可能會有口服又有增劑那這個部分"},{"start":11986.738,"end":12013.164,"text":"到目前為止差不多半年左右針對於每一個處方口服針劑的獎勵點數的這些部分不曉得有沒有初步的成果可以讓我們知悉你剛剛說有從7.38%已經到17%那這個化學治療學名藥部分不知道有沒有初步的成果有有有跟委員說明那個生物相似藥那個實施的比較早那是113年就開始實施了"},{"start":12013.684,"end":12032.232,"text":"那現在已經到17% 16.9% 17%所以成效很好那去年開始的大概是下半年才開始所以大概半年的時間我們的這15個項目癌症的化學藥的學名藥的使用率也從43成長到53了也增加了10%"},{"start":12035.794,"end":12054.635,"text":"所以成效也不錯所以我們下一步就是像委員提到的我們越來越多的癌症的標靶藥都要準備要過專利期所以接下來會有越多的學名藥所以我們打算從化療藥其實我們現在癌症的治療"},{"start":12057.077,"end":12080.037,"text":"這個標靶藥物我們核准的品項是多於化學治療的藥物啦所以我們要把一些錢省下來用更多的新藥所以我們下一步大概今年第二季嘛第二季我們就會擴大到所有的癌症治療藥物的學名藥都會納入這個獎勵的項目所以不管是口服的不管是針劑的都適用那麼每一個處方都有獎勵的點數是這樣"},{"start":12081.858,"end":12091.658,"text":"所以意思就是說原先希望能夠到達70%的學民用藥的部分透過更全面的真的學民藥來提供獎勵的話這個能夠達"},{"start":12094.212,"end":12114.862,"text":"到這個目標的機會就更為有他的可行性跟他對對對我們的獎勵就是兩個方式一個是醫師在處方每一個這個學名要處方下來都有一百五十點的獎勵然後整個年度如果因為你轉換了這個藥物之後那麼你的這個這個支出啊藥費支出下降"},{"start":12115.342,"end":12129.055,"text":"下降那個額度我們還是回饋到你的醫院總額不會讓你下降那你就可以拿去用更多的專利期內的新藥的採購或者用在其他的醫療服務點數"},{"start":12130.496,"end":12153.179,"text":"所以預計從第二劑開始就針對於所有的用藥包括癌症用藥的學名藥包括是標靶跟免疫都有機會那當然他需要符合一些要件嘛就是要有原開發廠專利到期同時具有原廠藥跟學名藥而且具有價差或者是部分價差都可以把它原液進來當作一個可以"},{"start":12153.699,"end":12175.069,"text":"透過這個處方開立獎勵的清單是那這個部分在執行的過程裡面有沒有需要透過共理會的核准還是說還是要還是需要還是有個程序是是那因為你是第二季所以是不是三月的共理會三月的共理會會把它讓為一個重要議題來做討論好那就非常謝謝讓這個民眾在用藥"},{"start":12177.83,"end":12197.859,"text":"好的服務品質的過程裡面也能夠讓這個三贏的政策可以持續的來推動這樣不僅我們這個可以這個供藥的韌性多元用藥供藥的韌性更好那也可以為健保省一些錢之後我們可以進更多的新藥是好謝謝謝謝那這個署長先請回座來"},{"start":12201.36,"end":12218.162,"text":"跟部長再討論一下醫事人員繼續教育積分任內公使的部分我相信所有的醫事人員都會努力的來從事所謂的繼續教育因為繼續教育後面可以對自己的本質學能有更好的一個成長"},{"start":12218.843,"end":12242.561,"text":"那更重要就是能夠維持這個好的醫療品質所以基本上呢根據這個醫事人員職業登記跟繼續教育辦法裡面每六年就必須要修滿一定的繼續教育的積分才能夠辦理職業執照的更新這個是一方面維持這個好的品質一方面又能夠讓所有的從業人員醫療的部分有更好的這個"},{"start":12244.323,"end":12255.881,"text":"相關的這個能力這個是非常好的部分那可是這個過程裡面到底是在接受教育訓練的過程裡面是因還是要得到"},{"start":12256.724,"end":12281.506,"text":"可以將這個積蓄交流學問列為公教或納入公使這個對一般的同仁來講有時候他很努力的付出的過程裡面那如何同時也能夠兼顧他的工作還有他這個有關於公使的部分那這部分好像部長那個時候也在114年10月23跟這個護理團體他們有做意見交流的會議上面"},{"start":12281.986,"end":12309.896,"text":"有做一些處理那也希望應該僱主將這個所有所有人員在六年內所需要完成的120點就是每年20點的訓練時數能夠給予工價或納入工時可是在後來114年12月26日這個衛生福利部就出了公函給這個護理跟健康照護師結果我們看到的這個內容就是說有關醫事人員接受繼續教育"},{"start":12311.825,"end":12330.411,"text":"醫療機構得 或得於每年20小時的範圍內餘工價這個譬如說 大家在煩惱這個到底是願還是得好 跟委員說明這個勞動部在去年的10月有一個函示就是對於雇主要求這個員工應受的這個在職訓練因"},{"start":12334.392,"end":12363.572,"text":"那為公時所以我們現在未來的做法是這樣這個醫事人員的基本的積蓄消費基金6年120個小時的部分是因所以我們會再重新解釋說每年20或6年120個小時這個範圍內這個是醫事人員被法規所要求你要繼續執行業務要完備的所以要視為雇主要求你的員工要完成的這個要因"},{"start":12364.552,"end":12380.01,"text":"但是超出的部分你要鼓勵這個員工去進修什麼那這個就是得啦讓他有一個彈性120個小時6年120個小時每年20個小時以內這個是因超出的部分是得了解用這樣"},{"start":12380.891,"end":12395.775,"text":"公務人員也是嘛包括我們其他的這個復活勞動的朋友這些相關的這個醫事人員都算是是是謝謝所以看起來今年在1月20號再發一個函式讓他離清楚"},{"start":12396.115,"end":12425.07,"text":"好好好因為這個部分也真的需要部長透過好的方式來來示意包括說是無論上課的形式跟地點都應該納為公式因為我們知道有一些是透過視訊啊有一些是到實體的部分那另外用下班的時間去上課的話就是說我下班之後我又有這個訓練的需求我再去上課的話那這一部分呢可不可以納為加班"},{"start":12426.19,"end":12453.465,"text":"就是說我如果利用時間我已經下班了我去上這個繼續教育的課那有完成的話那可不可以算是加班再過來就是單位主管是不是針對這個列為繼續教育課程的內容還要不要再審查就是說好像這個既然都已經是屬於正式的這個教育課程的話有的朋友說我為什麼知道我同意不同意"},{"start":12454.065,"end":12478.919,"text":"的這個課程是屬於繼續教育如果已經得到認可的話還需不需要經過這個審查的程序這個部分可能也要馬上部長利用在說明的時候或者是這些韓文的時候能夠把這些的部分當然也能夠讓所有這個議事同仁都能夠很確定的了解好我們在下一個韓的時候我們把它釐清那當然這個"},{"start":12481.2,"end":12505.245,"text":"很簡單的做法反正你就是一年有20個小時的繼續教育的時數是認列在公司這是最簡單嘛這樣子的做法是最容易的醫事人員他們會自己衡量你只有20個小時嘛那你只有20個小時去報出來的不是被認列在未來繼續教育那個是醫政"},{"start":12505.965,"end":12522.072,"text":"主管機關就是衛生局要認列的那個不在那個裡面那裡當然就必須額外去付出嘛好 那個就沒有問題還有一個部分就是上班時間如果同時上線去修這個課程的話公司要怎麼計算可能到時候也要麻煩保證員額外訴求一下"},{"start":12526.831,"end":12537.678,"text":"這個確實有這種情形譬如說我們會有一些Meeting那個Meeting就在你的上班時間那個Meeting又去報繼續教育的有這種狀況"},{"start":12539.879,"end":12563.823,"text":"這樣委員知道我們在醫院morning meeting 經常報學分嘛那個也在你的工時裡面那所以這個其實就是已經在你的工時裡面已經符合規定了這個就沒有額外再報那講的是說額外的你上班時間以外的那應該視為工假或者是工時就把它算進去算在總工時啦當天是在你的工作時間內參加的活動"},{"start":12566.844,"end":12586.333,"text":"你本來就是在Meeting然後報了學分那這個好像就沒有額外報了但是你額外的這個不在今天的工時額外的那應該要認列在你的每月的總工時裡面好好如果有一些疑惑的話用QA的方式來呈現再麻煩部長好謝謝謝謝謝謝王振旭委員發言接下來請鍾嘉斌委員發言"},{"start":12606.052,"end":12620.788,"text":"好 主席 在場委員先進列席政務機關所長 官員會長 工作夥伴媒體記者 女士先生好 我們就有請部長了 部長迫不及待了來 那麼也還要同時請我們看事負稅署好了蔡專門委員還有我們的保險司的張司長"},{"start":12625.39,"end":12649.335,"text":"周委員好部長好剛剛我在外交國防因為是僑委員會對於台商跟僑民的一些關心跟照顧那我這裡呢也很肯定啊過去在你擔任部長之前您也多次造訪很多包括東南亞國家印象深刻的那時候在薛瑞元部長的時候我們曾經就衛武部的叫做通訊診察"},{"start":12650.775,"end":12662.507,"text":"治療辦法我們要擴大試用了對不對對你還記得吧這個越南台商也拜託過也是您的督促下我們把它完成了好那我剛剛在那邊詢問的就是說會不會未來會持續的跟僑委會合作"},{"start":12666.05,"end":12694.686,"text":"不過只有越南馬來西亞聽說下個月要去菲律賓未來會繼續擴大包括亞利桑那美國鳳凰城都可以試用吧我們逐步逐步規劃那當時我要求的是說除了國外之外我們國內的矯正機關有很多的受刑人因為高齡化他們年事偏高慢性病心血感激病多那麼過去如果要借戶送醫遇到這種情況很耗費人力未來如果說法務部有"},{"start":12695.626,"end":12712.332,"text":"拜託有要出經費你們可以協助他把這樣的一個通訊診療方辦法擴大因為本來裡面就有矯正機關嘛那過去比較少用好像只有兩個只有精神科跟皮膚科那如果未來法務部有這個需求你們願意協助嗎"},{"start":12713.012,"end":12738.139,"text":"我們去年8月就放寬矯正機關都可以可是目前只有兩個在示範如果有這個需要因為我們健保還給付這個比台商還好在境內的好來請趕快兩個科別在去年在部長在署長任內最後一個月我們已經所有的科別都可以不只這兩個科別所有的科別都適用"},{"start":12739.079,"end":12765.668,"text":"但是呢因為矯正機關裡面內部的設備可能比較不夠而且呢事實上如果有他原來就是慢性病原來的醫療機構在幫他照顧健康的可以持續的照顧部長支持吧支持好那今天我們本的本題啊是我談國民年金法其實我們很很欣慰因為總統跟卓院長都有宣誓宣布啊要讓台灣好生活台灣好生活當中的國民年金"},{"start":12766.488,"end":12792.031,"text":"老農津貼調高為一萬之後我們行政院也支持衛護部把我們的國民年金調高從四千拉高到基本五千那我們再往下看所以過去國民年金保障不足假如醫院低有這些問題包括幾乎過低調整太慢排污過嚴而且對於高齡者跟生長者的保障不足對不對所以往下來看那我們多次本席也多次"},{"start":12793.072,"end":12807.906,"text":"呼籲調高國民年金不過因為受到憲法的要求75條以及包括預算法跟財政紀律法我們立法委員立法院不能違增加政府支出這決定因此那時候我就推了一個345億用財務法當中的一個"},{"start":12810.729,"end":12826.077,"text":"留下來的一筆用途不明的金額來做部長還有印象吧有有有那時候我就主張要調到8000啦因為有345億可以用嘛但是呢如果只有345億也只能做不到一年現在呢我們他納入體制還是要修法但是這個目標部長未來會不會繼續支持"},{"start":12828.741,"end":12855.808,"text":"我們幾乎提高機制調整對我們是整個財務的情況我們來提高所以這一次行政院的版本就已經一樣都調升23.5%那包含這個身障的會達到6715很好這都很正面那往下看所以你們現在幾乎提高了你們修正了牌幅這很重要過去在我們非都地區往往他一個人他住的是什麼留下來的老舊房子甚至在農業區可是"},{"start":12857.668,"end":12865.838,"text":"房屋房地產估計限值被調高之後他就沒有辦法得到了那CPI的指數呢你們也調了那還可以做得更好嗎我們有沒有還可以繼續做強化的地方 部長"},{"start":12871.499,"end":12887.779,"text":"我往下看比如說你們第一個金額增加所以我剛剛期待說未來還是有一個8000的目標因為目前縣市的最低生活會14000那如果按照A4跟B4去算其實目前只有5000的這個樓地板還是太低部長會不會覺得"},{"start":12888.92,"end":12914.652,"text":"你要繼續努力其實我們這個五千的部分是基本對他是屬於國民年金的保險對象他還會屬於他的繳費年資還是會對所以說我提的這個八千九千這個部分部長可不可以來努力好不好有機會啦有機會那這裡面要問一下但是我所知道的目前財政部昨天前上週釋出一個消息過上個月啦應該去年啦我們好像"},{"start":12916.553,"end":12929.579,"text":"稅收比預期的少了好像算算少了500億因為貨物稅 關稅等等還有一個地顏的支出是不是這樣子這位是負稅署 是嗎簡單講好不好 時間已經過來去年的情況是不是比我們預期的稍微不足"},{"start":12930.495,"end":12951.828,"text":"有這個情況嗎還是你忘記了是是這樣那是就好了我很怕你說不是但是我們希望在台美對等貿易能夠協定確認之後確保台灣對外的經濟成長能夠繼續成長好像是上升到8%了對不對所以我們希望在未來稅收充裕的情況之下"},{"start":12952.762,"end":12979.013,"text":"行政院來支持衛福部把這個目標來努力好不好在財政有增加的情況之下這樣可以吧可以可以喔 往下第二個就是這次我們修法的本題36條我們認為在財務法修改之後這全部的860億通通由中央政府來負擔這不對啊你同不同意未來財務法現在修改之後地方也不少地方有錢啊是不是我們的36條您覺得因為你們這次都沒有講到36條你們一直沒講到36條你們只要講到那三個事情"},{"start":12982.655,"end":12986.432,"text":"但是我们期望呢行政委员之外36条部分你们会不会考虑"},{"start":12987.921,"end":13014.73,"text":"這一次我們的修法沒有涉及到這個中央跟地方的分攤因為行政院另外有提出一個這個新的才化法的這個修正所以我們是希望按照行政院的才化法的新的版本按照新的版本在那個新的版本之下中央跟地方的分配較為均衡所以這種情況之下或許未來中央跟地方共同分攤國民年金的"},{"start":13016.171,"end":13029.984,"text":"幾戶的這個部分你們可以看再來討論好那也不勉強往下看好那這次呢這些我們也提到了有沒有幫助這次呢過去欠費無力繳納想要回流的本金加利息的這個部分你們有沒有幫助回流欠費無力"},{"start":13034.421,"end":13057.445,"text":"來 哪一個要回答我們還是會協助啦就是真的沒有能力的因為像低收入戶我們就本來就政府就補助了嘛那如果是有這個困難的我們還是有這個分期繳款的這個方式那修正後兩年內補繳這個保費跟利息的時候利息減半徵收負稅組的看法怎麼樣也是沒有準備到這一題"},{"start":13062.145,"end":13077.163,"text":"好啦沒關係啦好啦這一題我們讓你回去再惡補一下啦再往下看好來接下來呢在我們的老農津貼國民年金都有所調整的情況之下衛護主管的有六大攝護津貼嘛保險師知道哪六大吧"},{"start":13078.083,"end":13094.515,"text":"知道了我不用考你都寫出來了那這個未來有沒有考慮要一併做調整我們這個六大津貼裡面有三項是屬於低收入戶另外有三項是屬於邊緣戶就是中低收入戶或者是福利對象這個目前都已經有覆案了會經行政院同意之後我們會盡快宣布"},{"start":13103.562,"end":13132.307,"text":"我是覺得如果真的對人民福國利民的要趕快講讓人民知道而且呢前提是是在我們國家財政可以負擔的情況之下所以我希望財政部密切的跟衛福部合作透過足跡總署在這樣的一個國家資源調度上當我們國家人民的經濟成長我們的打拼有這樣成果的時候不管是透過稅收來表達應該優先來照顧弱勢者部長你同意嗎同意我說優先照顧弱勢者就不是要去照顧那些"},{"start":13133.608,"end":13157.327,"text":"優勢的退休後很有錢的那種好最後的結論了所以三個第一國民年金給付金額增加勢在必行未來希望有這個8000的目標希望行政院來努力好不好那至於中央跟地方的分擔的部分還有鼓勵民眾回流的部分這個三個方向是不是繼續來努力對對對那最後呢六大福利今天一併天了好不好好謝謝部長謝謝市長好謝謝總委員"},{"start":13166.587,"end":13169.988,"text":"好謝謝鍾嘉賓委員發言接下來請鄭天才委員發言好主席各位委員有請部長請時部長"},{"start":13195.098,"end":13211.155,"text":"好 部長辛苦了今天談的國民聯軍法本席也有提案禮拜五會復委到時候在主條審查的時候我們再討論希望也能夠支持"},{"start":13213.103,"end":13241.634,"text":"那我們看這個國民現在另外講一個議題國民年金法53條原住民年滿55歲特別有這樣的一個規定因為有這個規定後來公務人員退休之前撫恤法原住民也可以降為55歲然後這個公立學校教職員退休之前撫恤條例原住民也可以降為55歲"},{"start":13244.656,"end":13271.069,"text":"那現在就是問題出這個老人福利法仍然維持65歲原住民沒有降低為55歲那這個延伸的就很多的問題我們看這個衛福部在早期針對原住民的長者裝飾假牙也是55歲然後長照也是原住民也是55歲"},{"start":13273.643,"end":13298.503,"text":"這個部長以前的前任的部長現在政務委員當初在納入優先接種疫苗的時候演出名也是55歲相關的台南的老倫健保也是55歲新北的這個健保也是55歲尤其是這個敬老悠遊卡很多縣市都是55歲"},{"start":13302.959,"end":13328.049,"text":"現在重點在哪裡呢 他們拿了這個敬老悠遊卡坐公車 他們的公司公車可以然後坐捷運可以結果去坐台鐵的七間車就不行了就產生這個 怎麼一國兩制同樣的一個台北台中市的七億 新北市的七億這樣的狀況"},{"start":13331.469,"end":13357.232,"text":"就變成是這樣所以這個部分要怎麼樣能夠一致怎麼樣能夠一致事實上這個前任的院長蘇貞昌院長基於敬老以及嚴重於移民比較所以有降低那就一個標準現在是不同的標準他不必雙重標準"},{"start":13359.789,"end":13363.604,"text":"蘇貞昌前院長他也認同本席的"},{"start":13364.802,"end":13391.117,"text":"因為這個對一個老人家來講我坐公車可以,坐捷運可以,去坐火車就不行了因為常常那個七間車在同一個縣市的時候他坐七間車就不行,鐵路的當然高鐵就是另外一個層面,比較少會有這樣的一個狀況最主要就是鐵路的那個部分"},{"start":13392.317,"end":13417.148,"text":"所以這個部分其實相關的支出也不會很多事實上怎麼樣能夠把它一致所以希望衛福部這邊也能夠檢討老人福利法那條條文能夠做修正跟委員說明就是說老人的定義"},{"start":13420.389,"end":13435.397,"text":"國際上都有共同的定義啦就是這個年紀啦所以我們去調整這個老人的定義這個問題比較大不過呢在福利身份上應該要調整所以當時候因為就是考慮到"},{"start":13436.437,"end":13463.348,"text":"原住民跟我們國人一般的愚民有大概10歲的落差所以才將各種的福利身份下降10歲所以從65到55但是隨著我們現在不斷地在努力改善這個差距也在縮短現在大概在8歲7點多這個年紀但是我們也沒有去調整它所以是不是要用用定義上把它完全"},{"start":13464.588,"end":13479.197,"text":"固定下來還是說隨著福利身份上去調整我覺得我是比較favor後面的做法就是按照福利身份讓他不一樣可是老人的定義就是全世界大家都一樣這樣定我就建議了這個"},{"start":13484.165,"end":13494.034,"text":"你們不修老人福利法但是你們可不可以去協調交通部我們來協調希望他參照我們的福利的標準參照其他的"},{"start":13505.465,"end":13514.833,"text":"因為其他的福利的都是都是用55對好的好謝謝我們用年金的方式來對好謝謝好謝謝謝謝謝謝鄭天才委員發言接下來請黃秀芳委員發言謝謝主席我們請部長又請石部長"},{"start":13536.46,"end":13543.692,"text":"報告員好 部長好 剛剛中委員有特別提到就是說我們現在老農年金已經提高到一萬"},{"start":13545.529,"end":13572.878,"text":"老農我說老農那當然就是很多民眾期待就是說我們國民年金的部分也能夠比照老農那當然就是說我們這個如果是加入國民年金原本他可能就是沒有就是沒有從事這個沒有加入勞保那全部都是加入這個國民年金所以我們會覺得說有點這個有加入"},{"start":13574.098,"end":13592.33,"text":"領國民年金的這些民眾其實在這所有的這個保險當中應該是領得最少的啦領得最少的那有沒有可能現在我那天看到我們行政院已經有拍板就是說目前就是提高到5000那是不是可以再往上"},{"start":13593.431,"end":13616.673,"text":"其實現在整個我們物價上漲其實如果每個月五千其實還是非常的少那是不是可以請部長針對這部分你有什麼樣的想法跟委員報告 當然我們有各種不同的社會保險跟年金制度所以大家的起跳也都不是完全一致"},{"start":13617.453,"end":13644.523,"text":"所以我們這一次行政院版的這個國民年金的修法主要是也參考了老農年金的調整幅度所以23.5%的調整所以我們在這個基本的老人年金跟這個身障這邊都把它等比例的用23.5%把它調升這樣整個會讓政府整年的支出大概會增加到一兩百億啦那這個我們認為在財務上因為"},{"start":13647.985,"end":13667.315,"text":"這個年金還是要能夠我們這個是國民年金啦這個基金還是希望能夠永續的發展那以我們現在的收支還可以的情形之下那政府有多餘因為我們現在增加的部分都是政府用公務預算預租我們一年真正從收的保費出去的也不過300多億"},{"start":13668.916,"end":13684.207,"text":"那多數都是政府補助進來我們一年已經發到這個相關的國民年金出去的大概1000億左右了所以政府已經負擔了600多億未來會增加到800億左右所以一直在增加所以我們來努力"},{"start":13698.897,"end":13722.2,"text":"所以我也認為就是說政府應該要照顧這個最需要被照顧的人所以我希望就是說部長針對這一部分我們再去思考一下那接下來我想請教部長就是說我們在這幾天看到就是印度的這個例白病毒因為我記得在我們這個COVID-19那時候也是"},{"start":13722.961,"end":13736.778,"text":"在春節期間就整個春節期間然後之後就大爆發那我想請教就是說立百病毒在印度或者是在印度周邊的這個國家其實他們都有一些警戒"},{"start":13737.679,"end":13761.362,"text":"那我不知道說針對我們台灣的部分因為再來就是這個寒假然後出國出國的人也很多尤其是這個過年期間這個到其他國家去旅遊的人或到東南亞或南亞這個旅遊的人也非常的多那我想請教部長針對這個立百病毒我們國家未來會有什麼樣的防範"},{"start":13762.703,"end":13789.554,"text":"是不是可以先請部長做一個回應跟委員說明他這個立法並不得傳播主要是兩個方式一個是這個動物傳人主要是果福那第二個就是人傳人那所以目前在這個印度的這個案例中間有一部分個案是人傳人特別是醫護人員因為照顧這個病人的時候而得到感染"},{"start":13790.114,"end":13809.567,"text":"那它在社區大傳播的機會不大是因為它的R0值低大概在0.2到0.7左右所以它會下降但是致死率很高所以我們才會提高警戒那除了我們要把它已經有醫界的通告"},{"start":13810.167,"end":13838.325,"text":"給所有的醫師提高警覺如果有不明原因的這個有旅遊史同時有不明原因的這些神經症狀就是有腦炎的可能性的話那麼需要通報未來我們現在在預告中會納為第五類的傳染病強制通報那這個我們就可以提高這個警示那另外我們也跟農委會合作所以其實一直定期有在採檢因為剛剛提到果福台灣還是有也會有定期看有沒有這個"},{"start":13839.566,"end":13861.393,"text":"驗出來到目前為止的檢體還沒有驗出任何一個所以台灣相對的目前的風險是可控那再加上近期看到過去這個立百病毒雖然這個致死率很高但是在全球呢並沒有產生區域性大流行都還是單一的爆發點像曾經一九"},{"start":13863.414,"end":13881.829,"text":"1988年的時候這是馬來西亞有一次主要都是在印度跟孟加拉這個地區所以還沒有到整個區域性的流行過所以我們是提高警覺就是我們不要鬆懈但是目前大概風險上還是可控"},{"start":13882.946,"end":13901.563,"text":"風險上還是可能那我也想請教就是說因為這個過年期間可能旅遊旺季那有可能東南亞或是到其他國家那像泰國的話他們在那個路徑有做一些監測那不知道說國內會不會有這樣的一個措施"},{"start":13902.484,"end":13928.262,"text":"我們國內是這樣第一個我們在邊境那個發燒篩檢還是沒有拿掉所以進來有發燒的還是會被我們這個防疫人員察覺第二個還是會有這個警示卡就是你這個應該要注意哪一些未來如果有發生什麼症狀你要儘速就醫同時要表明旅遊史我們現在先從旅遊史這邊來強化臨床端的話提高警覺"},{"start":13929.883,"end":13951.212,"text":"接下來我想請部長,就是說我接到民眾陳情就是說這個北榮,這個民眾他是在北榮的這個眼科就是住院,那他就發現他的病房上面就是針對就是鏡頭病房裡面有那個監視器,那是對著病床"},{"start":13952.052,"end":13981.4,"text":"那他有跟醫院這邊做反應那也有打電話可能很多單位他都有陳情那也打到我們辦公室來做陳情那我們確實我們辦公室也有打電話到北榮去詢問因為我們覺得說病房裡面會有監視器那是不太可思議的事情那後來北榮也確定就是也確定就是說確實有這樣的一個監視器在這個病房裡面那是因為當時就是疫情期間可能就是負壓病房"},{"start":13981.88,"end":14004.178,"text":"然後這個監視器就沒有移除這個監視器沒有移除那北榮他的說法是說他這個已經電源拔掉了就是說沒有做那個錄影的這樣的一個動作可是這個患者他會覺得我住在這裡面我怎麼知道你到底有沒有用是不是有錄影"},{"start":14007.32,"end":14029.648,"text":"他會覺得說那我的隱私可能就全部都被錄了我想請教部長就是說除了北榮有這樣的一個狀況之外那全臺灣曾經在疫情期間作為這個負壓隔離病房可能也許他裡面都有這樣的一個監視器那全臺灣是不是也有這樣的類似的一個狀況"},{"start":14030.748,"end":14058.831,"text":"跟委員說明就是過去我們這個基本上的這一些攝錄影主要都是在公共空間在私領域的話是不裝設的所以病房裡面是不裝設公共空間走廊這個護理站這個公共空間裝設私領域是不裝設除非有特殊情形像有一些精神病人那麼他會有智商傷人的情形那他在這個保護室裡面他是有裝攝影機免得他又智商傷人"},{"start":14059.511,"end":14076.939,"text":"有這個狀況沒有錯那這個是一般病房一般病房原則上是不裝所以我們會來提醒那可能是當時候因為有那個這個專責病房的關係醫護人員都盡量減少進入到房間裡面所以就透過這個攝錄影來其實"},{"start":14080.18,"end":14094.146,"text":"反應萬一有狀況的時候可以及時的處理那我們會發個函請大家再檢視一下原則上這些攝錄影以公共空間公共空間為主那不在私營域裡面裝設大家再檢視一次"},{"start":14096.007,"end":14118.258,"text":"部長其實我們那時候打電話給北榮的時候我們會覺得說這個應該是很容易是不是把這個鏡頭就先暫時拔掉嗎以後如果有貼起來就對啊或者是以後還需要變成專責病房的時候你再把它裝上去就好對啊有這麼困難嗎我覺得是最簡單就是把它貼起來就好啦是啊是啊所以所以我"},{"start":14118.958,"end":14140.133,"text":"透過這樣的我會覺得說那其他全國各個醫院曾經當成專責病房的時候是不是也有類似的一個狀況所以我們希望就是說衛福部這邊針對這一部分可能要再做一個檢視那當然我們也希望白龍其實這個是很容易的事情就剛剛部長講的就把它打開就好了謝謝委員的提醒病人的隱私我們還是要保護嘛"},{"start":14146.957,"end":14173.102,"text":"他有這樣的疑慮你就趕快把這個不是整層樓每一間都這樣子當然是因為疫情的關係當時有這個需要可是疫情已經過了這麼久了那這個應該可以很容易就把它先把它移除掉嗎以後如果有需要的話再把它裝上去就好了啊好對啊好不好好謝謝委員的提醒我們來進行這個跟議員發函好所有的議員謝謝黃秀芳委員發言接下來請陳冠廷委員發言"},{"start":14187.216,"end":14211.069,"text":"您好我們請部長 又請石部長陳委員好 部長好部長我們現在有一些第一線在執行公費疫苗接種時那他們這些護理師還要接種資料跟接種時的確認那很多時候他們是要依賴人工查核只要資料不完整或者是紀錄有誤就會有風險那我們聽到"},{"start":14213.53,"end":14233.153,"text":"很多第一線的醫護人員然後包含我們辦公室的同仁他的母親就是第一線的護理師他跟我們說他某些疫苗是公費補助他醫生一次但是因為接種紀錄錯誤或查核這個疏忽會讓第一線人員讓民眾來重複接種那我們意思是說現在的這個我們不管是健保卡等等它已經是全面數位化了"},{"start":14233.553,"end":14261.981,"text":"理論上在公費接種的時候他應該要電子化智慧化也就是說他不用說我在這邊算這個間隔多久有沒有慢性病然後自己做人工上面的查核他應該是要直接顯示出這一個人適不適合可不可以來去做接種我想請教一下部長目前的這個狀況有沒有什麼其他方式來給他改善我們目前是公費接種紀錄應該都有都在雲端這是有的"},{"start":14262.481,"end":14283.406,"text":"那自費的部分有可能不完整有的人會自己打自費疫苗所以我們會去強化請醫院把這個自費接種的也上傳免得重複啦因為我們的公費政策也會改變嘛那有的可能你已經打過就不要再打了所以我們會強化那個自費疫苗的這個上傳雲端"},{"start":14284.406,"end":14305.906,"text":"那公費的部分現在都已經OK了那現在是我了解委員在提的因為有一些是要多次接種比如他完成接種可能要兩個度子或三個度子他要間隔所以他那個間隔的提醒是不是間隔時間OK或者是還不到"},{"start":14307.047,"end":14334.627,"text":"那這個比較屬於智慧化的提醒那麼或者是有沒有什麼禁忌不能打還是什麼我請CDC研究看看好就是說讓它儘快智慧化就不用讓它再經過因為每次的人工的審核就是多一份風險那如果自動可以把它做數位化之後就可以避免這些風險謝謝部長那第二個部分針對外籍在研究"},{"start":14334.867,"end":14356.379,"text":"外籍戶左的部分那衛福部最近有宣布說為了要去填補護理能力的缺口他們預計在2026年4、5月就會開放醫院來引進外籍戶左那我們看到這個消息我們有點擔心怕他是在躲避一些問題就是說我們醫院缺人所以補人這個是很"},{"start":14357.219,"end":14377.708,"text":"很簡化問題的一個方式因為現在很多只有護理執照真正的問題是工作薪資的條件或者是他薪資的結構讓人家不願意留在醫院那如果未來你說把外籍護所把他招募進來之後我請問說這個以後的這個行政的管理難道要交給護理師來做行政管理那這樣有達成行政減量的工作嗎"},{"start":14378.288,"end":14401.243,"text":"那或者是說你要做這些事情的話你要給護理師行政加擠嘛那才有效的一方面提高他們的薪資改變他們的結構同時又有人能夠進來協助護理師來把這些問題解決我想請問一下部長你認為這個護理人口的這種缺口的主要解方真的可以這樣子用這種少一個補一個這樣的方式來去解決嗎"},{"start":14402.304,"end":14418.783,"text":"跟委員說明這個我們現在所提到的不是叫做護佐是叫做造福員那麼這個造福員不會去替代護理的人力這個是兩件事情那這個主要的考慮是因為我們在過去這兩年有推動"},{"start":14419.444,"end":14441.875,"text":"叫做住院整合性照顧因為現在的高齡化很多住院的長者呢需要生活協助他可能在家裡面有長照來協助到醫院裡面沒有那這個工作有時候就會落到護理人員的身上所以我們才會開始有這個用共聘的方式那麼共同聘請這個生活的"},{"start":14442.695,"end":14468.045,"text":"輔助就是照服員來協助一些生活照顧也減輕護理人員的負擔那我們這個成效很好民眾的反應度很高他可以減輕他自己要聘這個看護的費用那同時醫院的管理也比較好因為由醫院統一來調度那麼他的一些訓練也都能夠符合規定那這樣我們去年是全國參加這個計畫的是5000床左右"},{"start":14470.906,"end":14481.052,"text":"大概一年花了五億我們有補助所以這個民眾的負擔是下降的那我們未來希望更多做到一半的病床大概要做到三萬床"},{"start":14482.256,"end":14500.764,"text":"所以他需要更多的造福人所以造福源我們才會說有一定的比例不是全部不能多於本地的這個造福源那開放讓這個外籍具有這個語言能力要有一定的基本的語言能力才可以而且也要取得"},{"start":14501.204,"end":14513.728,"text":"造服務員的資格才能夠算進這個服務方案裡頭所以這個大概跟您說明一下那護理的部分我們會持續的去推升好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝陳冠廷委員發言接下來請葉元之委員發言"},{"start":14539.83,"end":14562.843,"text":"主席好 麻煩請部長謝謝 麻煩請石部長好 月圓好部長好 您現在就是為了要那個紓解像類似去年過年期間急診室的用色狀況嘛現在有一個做法是說希望診所可以多開嘛那我現在就您的了解 現在門診在診所願意開的那個意願高嘛"},{"start":14563.821,"end":14590.252,"text":"到我們統計的去年最低的時候大概是在初一初二初三這三天大概都不到5%2到4%的開診率那我們今年就弄了這些方案然後現在在一直在登記當中現在初三的開診率已經可以超過10%初一初二我們還在努力那醫院的部分大概開診率過去初一初二也都是休息的"},{"start":14590.612,"end":14608.46,"text":"現在也有開診所以開診率大概也到7成我現在先針對那個門診部分跟您討論因為我當然也有去了解一下其實大家其實意願也不是太高啦為什麼誘因不足因為現在衛福部你們提出來的誘因是讓他的診查費可以兩倍嘛對不對兩倍嘛"},{"start":14610.621,"end":14630.668,"text":"但是他在春節開診像初一初二初三開診的話成本也會提高為什麼呢因為不可能醫師自己來開診嘛你總是有護理師嘛阿爸號員啊藥師啊那通通常這些相關的工作人員他的薪水門診的院長就是診所院長也要給他們大概兩到三倍啊"},{"start":14631.829,"end":14643.187,"text":"所以他們會有一個低門檻的成本那如果你在過年期間開業然後結果病人沒有到大概平均30個以上的話實際上他還會虧本"},{"start":14646.451,"end":14668.578,"text":"所以大家可能就會覺得誘因不足那乾脆去放假也不用拗那些護理師春節來加班所以我覺得當然我覺得部長你們想到這個方法希望門診可以多開去紓解大醫院的急診的量我覺得不錯可是在執行面上會有這樣的問題所以我其實再給你一個建議其實你就可以直接把"},{"start":14669.238,"end":14697.447,"text":"他們可能延伸的固定成本直接給他們舉例來講你今天如果願意開業的話一整了一整就給他們一萬塊那你現在全國的門診全國的診所大概多少個一萬間一萬兩千間一萬兩千間嘛你今天如果有兩成兩成的人願意在春節假設啦很良好的狀況兩成的人願意在春節開診的話一個診大概如果一萬塊大概就兩千萬就是大概兩千萬"},{"start":14698.067,"end":14725.184,"text":"那如果多幾天一兩億就可以解決了你現在是說變多少錢要來解決這個春節紓解狀況因為我們是根據就醫量大概16億但是他包含住院他包含住院所以增加一點點你就可以讓門診願意開業的這個意願會高很多你研究看看好我們研究看看你研究看看"},{"start":14726.284,"end":14744.293,"text":"這個用同胞制啦這個跟委員講說現在這個UCC我們那個假日期就是用這個概念我們直接付那個終點費啦幾個小時多少錢這個概念跟您講的是一致的我現在就把我們因為我也希望說春節的時候"},{"start":14744.893,"end":14761.739,"text":"我們比如說鄉親們啊都在看醫生不要遇到這種不舒服擁擠的狀況啊對不對那大家能夠去就近去診所看我也是樂觀其成啊但我的了解的狀況意願就是我把剛剛可能你聽不到的東西講給你聽了啦"},{"start":14763.16,"end":14779.085,"text":"那現在就看您願不願意做嘛你提高一點點的工作獎金讓大家覺得說至少可以支付我固定成本那就不會他們就不會考慮說好我願意配合初一開開業啊大家都來啦負三倍薪水啊然後然後可能沒有什麼"},{"start":14779.725,"end":14807.846,"text":"沒有什麼病人那一天等於就沒有收入嘛然後而且支出變多嘛啊你就讓醫生護理師再再從過年而已啊好好對不對你這個你這個研議一下好你你覺得這個可能性高嗎我們會有一個調整的就是先開啦到時候如果不夠沒有那麼多了但是你開了我們再來看看怎麼補給你對補給他啦對也可以或者是說你直接如果你超了已經超出的那超出就可以啊你用這個承諾也很好如果用一個後續的"},{"start":14809.527,"end":14833.475,"text":"因為病人沒有出來我們預算已經框在這裡了我們就去回田我覺得你今天能夠做出這樣承諾也很好啊至少那一些願意開業的醫生大家都沒有生病沒有用到最好嘛那我最好嘛那但是我們預算他開了嘛對不對然後他會有成本嗎你就補給他嘛可以可以好不好就朝這個方向啦對我相信大家願意開的那個意願可能就更高了啦是"},{"start":14833.755,"end":14851.545,"text":"然後第二個問題同樣也是醫療資源問題因為我們我是板橋我們板橋55萬人口但我們只有一間大型醫院就是亞東醫院所以有時候有病人的話都要往別區跑跑雙河或者是跑其他的地方"},{"start":14852.438,"end":14873.36,"text":"那本來我們新北市政府是有規劃一個板橋的醫療園區這個部長您應該很清楚我也清楚之前流標了嘛流標原因我也覺得非常奇怪因為當時三年前新北市政府就跟衛福部申請了大概要開499床衛福部也同意了然後結果呢"},{"start":14874.321,"end":14893.056,"text":"準備要蓋的時候都規劃好要蓋的時候然後要上網招標健保署忽然有一個新的規定出來就是說新的如果新設醫院大概一年只給兩億對吧所以有這個新的規定沒有這是假消息是不是沒有沒有沒有這個規定沒有這個規定那為什麼那為什麼之前"},{"start":14893.997,"end":14908.586,"text":"所以你用這個機會澄清我覺得也是好事因為他們現在要重新招標沒有這個規定啦那當初是什麼是怎麼講的我不知道這個消息完全不知道因為那時候就是傳出來說要總額控管嘛"},{"start":14909.707,"end":14933.955,"text":"總和控管各大型醫院都已經分配好了量了然後如果說有新設醫院的話就2億那當然就沒有人要來投標本來有一家醫院投標後來就聽到這個消息之後不投標這過程你很清楚然後你很清楚因為2億的話大概就是一般的門一個門診怎麼可能是499床結果那所以你可以澄清一下因為我們要鼓勵"},{"start":14935.555,"end":14957.103,"text":"優質的醫院來投標跟委員說明就是說第一個我們鼓勵當然這個雖然醫院是一家大型的可是診所還是很多所以要新開的這一家絕對是以急重症優先不是在看一般的門診這是第一個第二個我看最近這個新北市也在做了一些調整那個調整的方向我是蠻支持的"},{"start":14959.386,"end":14973.044,"text":"調整的方向就是第一個配合衛福部嘛所以他還有100個長照的床嘛對不對 然後就針對長輩嘛區域是缺乏的對啊 但關鍵是關鍵就是說我覺得為什麼我覺得你們"},{"start":14974.306,"end":14988.468,"text":"要了解為什麼一開始有一家大型醫院要投標後來他要撤標就是因為健保總額管制嘛當初是傳兩億那你可能不是兩億那是多少對不對因為你總額的量會讓那些醫院"},{"start":14989.489,"end":15008.177,"text":"提高也是剛剛一樣提高誘因如果你今天是給30億30億那當然他意願就會高兩億就不高新北市政府為什麼會做調整他是等於是降低的醫院來投標的成本委員我跟您說明這個事實上是每個醫院的總額會一個區一個固定的總額"},{"start":15008.897,"end":15034.812,"text":"所以那個2億的傳聞是來自那個區的醫院共管自己的協商不是來自我們衛福部或署本部的核定那消息傳出來之後我們跟部長還有我還有跟我們新北市衛生局一直有溝通所以目前呢最新的方案是新北市會預註9.1億在硬體上面那它在病房急性病房是299床長照床是100床這是最新的版本那目前"},{"start":15035.472,"end":15059.129,"text":"就我知道已經蠻多醫院這個我都知道但關鍵就是大家的顧慮還是在於健保署會不會有一個總額控管然後那個總額控管的量會不會很小所以不等大概啦因為2億是控管會議的決定但是不是衛福部的決定嘛對吧那衛福部你們認為像這種大型的醫院大概可以到多少你覺得合理"},{"start":15059.549,"end":15083.766,"text":"因為要這麼說這個一定會影響到地方的資源的重分配啦因為人口就這麼多啦也沒有增加啦所以一定是這邊有新的就有的地方會替代過來所以我們才會說這每年以100到150場的規模然後我們核給的這個額度就是跟它一樣規模的醫院一年是多少"},{"start":15084.786,"end":15107.604,"text":"大概多少那就要看他是那一個層級的醫院所以不會有一個像類似講的什麼先把那個額度框出來那我重新這個詮釋一下你的意思大概就是說像這樣的一個大型的醫院他應該多少就可以拿到多少就是他的同等級醫院這麼多床大概是多少所以就是多少所以就跟"},{"start":15108.524,"end":15122.995,"text":"這個全國的各大型的醫院講說不用擔心就放心來投標請大家拿出你的用品質服務的品質來這邊但是新的案子還是比以前的好我知道這為什麼是就是因為"},{"start":15124.44,"end":15140.7,"text":"之前傳出個消息出來嘛大家不願意來投嘛覺得怕虧本嘛所以市府後來就編了很多公務預算進去嘛對不對包括停車場都市府自己興建嘛所以看得出來市府真的很想促成這件事情啦所以也希望說中央也可以在旁邊協助因為這個對板橋來說如果"},{"start":15142.702,"end":15163.397,"text":"我們在板橋五十五萬人口如果有多一家大型醫院一定可以紓解很多我們的鄉親看病的醫療可以增加醫療資源啦所以希望衛福部可以站在協助促成的立場好不好好這案子比較OK啦這案子不OK好謝謝業源支委員發言接下來請劉建國委員發言"},{"start":15171.966,"end":15188.493,"text":"請劉昭偉謝謝謝謝昭偉,有請石部長請石部長劉委員好部長好社保師有來?有"},{"start":15201.889,"end":15214.714,"text":"然後社家署沒有來社家署沒有好部長行政院在上週二十二日通過國民年輕法的不問條文修正草案就像現行的"},{"start":15215.703,"end":15242.77,"text":"每個月4049要提高到包含這個移屬年金及原名的企務上調為每月5000嘛沒有錯嘛然後身心障礙年金從每月的5437調高到6715漲幅將近23.5這是行政院的一個圖卡就公民年金企務再提高保險津貼都調整是這樣那簡單的算數"},{"start":15244.37,"end":15263.435,"text":"有算過這樣一年要增加多少嗎?就是從原有老年金、一屬年金及原民的幾乎五千然後如果減四零四九所以要增加九百五十一嘛,對不對?那身障年金是六七一五減原有的五四三七所以要增加到一二七八所以估計要多少預算?"},{"start":15263.975,"end":15278.45,"text":"跟委員報這裡三塊一個是這個基本年金的部分這裡一調整大概會需要多增加156.3億那另外一個是排富因為我們把那個門檻"},{"start":15280.652,"end":15306.763,"text":"把它拉高啦所以等於放寬排富啦放寬排富之後呢會多受益的人數就會增加大概2萬多人這邊會多增加13.5億那如果我們再根據CPI去調超過3%我們又再調一次那這邊又會再多受益176萬人所以大概會再增加25.1億所以整個合起來大概會增加194億"},{"start":15310.909,"end":15314.353,"text":"就這兩大項加起來每年要再增加194億對沒有錯嘛對對對"},{"start":15319.161,"end":15345.035,"text":"那因為我們現在要將國民年金的企務再提高那基本上我本人也有提案絕對是雙手雙腳漲成因為物價的指數一直在飆高嘛對不對但是部長的思考的範疇裡面就只有針對國民年金跟身障的年金其他的牽涉到大四五津貼沒有一併做通盤檢討然後給行政院做具體的建議"},{"start":15346.209,"end":15354.465,"text":"因為你一旦動到國民年金基本上這之前我們就跟先生有提醒過我們希望趕快將國民年金的這樣的一個"},{"start":15355.772,"end":15380.749,"text":"幾乎可以提高但是我們必須要很坦誠的只要提高國民銀金那相對的八大社會津貼你通通必須一併思考考量甚至你通通要往上提高是有嗎有有有另外還有我們一共是八大您提到的有八大福利津貼那還有六個沒有調整這個調完之後調了兩個了那還有六個沒有調整"},{"start":15381.269,"end":15403.041,"text":"那六個裡面有三個是屬於低收入戶的包含他的這個家庭生活補助包含他的這個兒童補助還有這個就學的補助這個還有三個那另外還有兩個是屬於中低收入戶一個是屬於弱勢而少的那我們也一併提了建議案那麼在行政院很快就會有"},{"start":15403.881,"end":15422.954,"text":"會有決定下來所以有一併都提到行政院讓行政院去做參考有有有一併這時間上會陸陸續續那個我有中低勞嘛中低產嘛對不對那還有低收入各款嘛對還有就學的嘛還有包含這個家庭的嘛包含兒童的嘛還有特勤的嘛"},{"start":15424.336,"end":15433.172,"text":"對全部通通有提供給好那如果全部要一併8到15現在應該叫8加1啦全部如果全部調整的話扣掉這169"},{"start":15435.918,"end":15463.376,"text":"19多那其他還要多少這邊194對 這邊194嘛將近200億了啦對那還要增加到多少那個等行政院拍板才知道那個金額是多少沒有 這怎麼需要等到行政院拍板是衛生部本身就要盤整然後把這個相關的一個預算規模都抓出來給行政院去做最後一個裁定才對啊怎麼會變成行政院在幫你們抓預算有方案會影響到那個這個"},{"start":15465.838,"end":15486.038,"text":"預算的規模啦所以您問我預算會影響到多少這個還沒有辦法拍板因為是根據那個方案才決定那個預算規模假設以現在的國民年金跟現在的津貼你已經基本上調高將近23.5那其他的如果依照這樣"},{"start":15488.22,"end":15503.146,"text":"不只這樣那以最低這樣來講嘛更高當然是最好啊那大致上是多少你應該讓委員會知道一下因為這個原本我們也在之前有具體建議過也希望一併來全面思考8加1的社會津貼該條就該條了"},{"start":15511.158,"end":15517.025,"text":"幾百億啦沒有那個叫幾百億的然後預算怎麼講確實那等於說醫療是你的專業啦但是因為你當了部長這一塊你還是要惡補要趕快惡補你怎麼可以回答委員會回答我說是幾百億"},{"start":15525.414,"end":15532.718,"text":"這個一定要行政院拍板之後我知道啦 我知道 現在是說他們報行政議員來的議程規模才有多少嘛我不是說 現在已經有拍板定案了嘛你總是要給我知道多少多少嘛 要給社會大眾知道多少嘛政府要過來兌變價值 他們說 等到多少嘛這兩個看下去 要跟他們拍板嘛 除了還有6加1嘛那民運總統加起來可能要達700至800億 還是800到1000億嘛"},{"start":15552.828,"end":15568.493,"text":"我想給社會大眾知道這個事情非常的正確也應該讓大家知道行政院衛部有這樣的決心要針對8加1的社會基金的對象要好好提升照顧啊但是你現在回答我幾百億這個很奇怪這也不算你的個性現在都精準醫療啊大約啦 大約大概在300億左右不只啦"},{"start":15578.416,"end":15589.282,"text":"新增 我說的是新增預算喔新增預算不是全部喔那你這兩項 這裡新增是差不多194億嘛這兩項的新增就194億的其他還有 我就講8加1嘛8加2是9嘛 9擴掉這兩項 還有7嘛你算6也沒關係嘛 那怎麼可能才300多億"},{"start":15601.708,"end":15611.544,"text":"6的人數因為他有一部分是低收入戶當然啦一部分是中低收入戶然後再加上的是弱勢而少啦人數沒有這麼多這邊是176萬人"},{"start":15613.424,"end":15633.938,"text":"好啦我姑且相信你啦好不好你要不要把那個你們評估起來相關的預算的大概啦給委員會給我做參考啦可不可以好不好嘿不要落差太大啦你有沒有漏氣喔好然後跟部長要請教的是500減4049所以增加9516715減5437增加1278你覺得這樣合理嗎"},{"start":15642.679,"end":15645.63,"text":"你換句話說 周遭的屏東店 請走一個屏東人一百塊"},{"start":15650.885,"end":15674.204,"text":"不覺得這樣合理嗎?因為國民年金還是需要永續我們現在新增的部分都是由中央政府直接撥補的預算這個也受到財化法的影響所以我們希望未來行政院版本的財化法如果修正之後我們再繼續檢討"},{"start":15676.025,"end":15682.43,"text":"我是建議部長啦好不好就是越弱勢的我們更應該照顧嘛所以當然不能說所有的每一項的津貼都等同時嘛但是朝向一個最大的一個一個大家可接受的一個調漲然後來保障照顧這些最弱勢的對象我想部長有起這個責任啦所以這個預算應該提高到什麼程度如果說你經過有詳細的一個盤整盤算"},{"start":15701.73,"end":15719.882,"text":"我想今天應該你打呼我就會很肯定嘛那甚至於我們還可以大家一起共同努力來跟行政院來做這個反應也讓全國的針對這8加1的社會津貼的對象都有感在行政院在衛福部的主政之下對這些對象有特別的這樣的一個"},{"start":15720.522,"end":15748.946,"text":"因應現在的經濟狀況物價指數的情形然後有所對他們更高的這樣的一個協助跟支持我想這樣會讓人民感受到政府的溫度也感受到這樣溫暖所以還是要提醒一個星期內應該可以把這些資料給我們可以啦好不管怎麼樣我今天是要提醒就是我們我們很少這樣包含老紅津貼包含津貼料照牌的公民年金很少我們需要去調整到"},{"start":15749.906,"end":15770.458,"text":"這個提高整個津貼的這樣的一個金額的時候我們的總預算還沒有通過啦大家都非常清楚這個新增預算新興項目延續性的新增預算基本上總預算沒有過就是即便法律通過了也通通不可以動之的所以我們是希望努力的可以來跟"},{"start":15771.518,"end":15793.53,"text":"在兩位委員溝通我們竟然把法案都排進來了然後行政院也表示了這樣的一個正面的正向的態度那我想總預算真的是要快速的來審查不然今天我們在這邊討論包含老農今天也好包含前兩天通過了農民儲金也好要由公部門來負擔比例提高基本上總預算沒有過這些法律過通通還是沒有辦法去執行了"},{"start":15795.911,"end":15821.386,"text":"所以這是一個非常非常非常矛盾也非常現實的一個狀況我在這邊也公開的再度來做呼籲那第二件事情我是很厲害的時間比較快我的主持都比較快這個印度發生立百病毒的疫情部長知道嗎知道好已經引起周邊國家警戒亞洲多個國際機場都已經加強的篩檢台灣有嗎"},{"start":15825.536,"end":15835.281,"text":"篩檢沒有啦 我們主要台灣沒有嘛亞洲很多的國際機場都已經篩檢了台灣沒有台灣沒有是台灣覺得還好沒有這麼重要這個應該是講不是什麼篩檢就是發燒篩檢戰啦那因為我們的機場從來沒有測過我們一直其他的機場他們測掉了可是台灣的機場這個發燒篩檢啊"},{"start":15849.599,"end":15855.64,"text":"這個是強調圖為泰國蘇納萬府的機場嘛他們是加強篩檢他下標是這樣嗎?因為我們台灣的發燒篩檢站從來沒有撤離過啦所以等同吃就對了因為立百病毒的RO值低於1不會大流行"},{"start":15873.684,"end":15899.693,"text":"應該是說它目前的數據R0是0.2到0.7啦就是說一個人傳染下一個的人數是0.2個到0.7所以它不會擴大像過去我們那個都是5啊6啊一個人傳好多人的那這個R0值是低於1但是因為雖然它傳播力沒有那麼強可是它的致死率很高才會引發大家的關注"},{"start":15900.68,"end":15913.614,"text":"但是部長知道1998年在馬來西亞經歷了那個立百仙村當時的災難發生什麼事情嘛我知道對不對它是造成三個國家將近300人感染的病例其中100多人死亡耶對然後"},{"start":15914.861,"end":15922.049,"text":"然後還在什麼埃西亞進900個豬場90多萬隻豬頭被捕殺這樣算嚴重嗎?嚴重啊第三下嚴重對人的性命、胖腱、肋骨也不算輕所以它不只是可以人傳人還可以豬傳人還可以豬傳豬的"},{"start":15934.563,"end":15951.432,"text":"這個比我們在要防治非洲疫情的情況之下應該是大家要提高更高的警覺才對吧所以對人而言但是對產業而言我想那個落差值非常非常大"},{"start":15952.842,"end":15980.035,"text":"是不是要請部長 不能大意沒有剩下的本錢 不能因為病毒 脖子低我們就掉個清心嘛對 我們已經提高那個警戒程度了包含從機場的部分 除了發燒篩檢會注意之外也提醒旅客出現相關的症狀要去就醫 要表明他的旅遊史然後我們也發了醫界通函提醒這些可能的症狀是什麼"},{"start":15983.398,"end":15999.533,"text":"我今天會提醒這個事情因為農曆春節快到了反國的鄉親你還能預估嘛所以我們要加強警戒我們可能整個篩檢什麼都要再提高所以變態比較辛苦是不是你可以直接就連結農業部看這個事情要怎麼應應對付"},{"start":16005.198,"end":16023.653,"text":"我覺得這有其不一樣一週內提供給我們做你們要怎麼提升的這樣一個處理的方式最後一項WHO也是讓上週22號川普大帝已經宣布了退出WHO"},{"start":16025.034,"end":16028.877,"text":"這個世界衛生組織昨天我原本想要發表一些看法其實這個世界衛生組織是世界最不衛生組織的"},{"start":16036.718,"end":16058.107,"text":"現在美國已經退出了那理由很簡單2019年台灣早就對新型的冠狀病毒發生事情但WHO卻假裝台灣不存在錯失了防疫的先機我們原本有觀察員身份後來被他們取消掉年年好幾年要扣關要申請一個觀察員的身份通通不給我們"},{"start":16059.267,"end":16076.039,"text":"然後我們提出這麼嚴重相信已經算是有人類原始以來造成最大的人員死傷的新冠病毒COVID-19台灣2019就已經提出來WHO視而不見所以它叫做世界最不衛生組織現在"},{"start":16078.891,"end":16085.475,"text":"全世界第一強國 美國就已經退出了台灣的態度是什麼 明年還在扣關嗎 會長這個跟委員說明 這個確實這個美國退出WHO我相信對WHO的衝擊影響比對台灣還要大"},{"start":16098.142,"end":16123.192,"text":"所以我們會密切的觀察後續WHO它的影響會多大但是在目前而言WHO還是全球最主要的衛生醫療平台公共衛生醫療平台所以我們還是會持續的有意義的參與當然未來如果美國有成立新的平台的時候當然我們也會積極爭取去參與"},{"start":16124.993,"end":16150.46,"text":"我覺得有時候是借力使力啦借機發揮啦讓台灣的整個對世界衛生的貢獻醫療的這樣的一個付出真的是你要趁這個機會順勢而為啦我想今天在兩年前AI國際台北AI國際電腦展可以辦了這麼大的盛會這是全世界級的"},{"start":16151.46,"end":16172.077,"text":"雖然名稱叫台北但是他還是一個世界級的那今天川普已經宣布就是退出WHO那其實也跟世界衛生組織宣戰嘛你們這個就是不公平嘛你們這個就是不公正嘛你們這個還在引力嘛然後針對這麼嚴重的事情台灣提出這麼嚴重的事情你還敢視而不見嘛"},{"start":16173.078,"end":16187.577,"text":"那其實因為部長我為什麼希望今天用這個會期最後一次委員會再用多一點的時間來提醒部長因為部長在衛生醫療這個單位公共部門已經滿久的時間"},{"start":16189.666,"end":16207.594,"text":"當AI的國際展台北AI國際展可以辦到如此的盛大那台灣整體的醫療台灣整體的衛生的維護台灣整體的很多的這樣的一個面向的一個整體提升醫療環境衛生環境我們努力貢獻是不是也可以趁這個機會"},{"start":16209.355,"end":16235.695,"text":"可以達到某種程度的一個渲染然後一個一個一個一個一個一個發揚我們更精準的這樣的一個作為就好比台北醫療電腦廠的告理一樣那甚至也可以邀請美國一起來共同來研辦這件事情那AI醫療現在已經都不用再介紹了那AI的機器人 醫療的機器人其實基本上這個都是台灣應該要走在世界的前端"},{"start":16240.513,"end":16249.828,"text":"趁這個機會啊應該部長有你的能耐跟你的經驗嘛而且這速度要快嘛對不對有沒有機會上半年度我們就可以"},{"start":16251.004,"end":16278.917,"text":"搞一個比世界衛生組織開會更具有效果的然後提出前瞻預警性的相關的對醫療對衛生環境有所有所示警全世界還是建置什麼樣的一個模範讓全世界可以來了解到對台灣對這樣的一個互出貢獻確實有達到某種程度的效益還有智慧我快要哭了你怎麼想說第一趕快來思考"},{"start":16280.441,"end":16294.235,"text":"這真的可以做啦,現在你要趁這個機會啦,其實我感覺川普你大舞台給你啦,真的啦,他沒機會大舞台給總統,因為總統外交管理,他要去發表什麼要給某個程度,你們要保證在這個時間是可以很充分的典型,台灣的醫療,台灣的環境衛生,"},{"start":16303.304,"end":16327.104,"text":"很多制度 基本上是可以跟世界 早就走在世界前面然後今天又有這樣的一個情勢發生真的請部長展示智慧啦 好不好好好讓我們台灣可以再持續讓台灣可以做世界的台灣啦讓台灣的整個衛生醫療可以在世界再度的躍升這個舞台 好不好好啦 請各位來電 好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":16329.206,"end":16334.349,"text":"好 謝謝趙偉 謝謝好 謝謝劉建國 趙偉接下來最後一位請陳英委員發言這個很辛苦喔 剛到了 剛下飛機好 謝謝趙偉的佛心齁那 嗯對 體諒我們東部班機實在是沒有很優好 那麻煩請我們石部長有請石部長"},{"start":16358.248,"end":16386.81,"text":"三位也辛苦了謝謝部長好我們年關將近所以我們今天打算就春節期間醫療人力調度跟急重症分級醫療政策執行成效要跟部長請教幾個問題首先就是在春節期間我們民眾面臨的急重症大概有哪些大概屬於是哪些科別的醫療人力會短缺還是所有的科別的人力都會短缺"},{"start":16387.87,"end":16414.675,"text":"跟委員說明大概我們看過去的資料這個過年期間的這個急診人次大概是一般我們大概1.5到1.7倍啦多增加了很大一部分就是呼吸道還有腸胃道還有一些小外傷啦所以最多的還是呼吸道疾病是最多那又會剛好每年都碰到那個流感劑的高峰剛好都在過年期間"},{"start":16415.495,"end":16435.346,"text":"所以今年我們就提早因應了那這樣我們過去在微服部有沒有利用健保資料庫去統計分析春節期間民眾的就醫需求那是不是也跟平日有比較顯著的這個差異那這些差異呢是不是有這個跟這個地區別"},{"start":16436.667,"end":16447.196,"text":"有這個不同的規模或者跟應該是說有沒有跟這個地區別或者有沒有跟這個不同規模的醫療院所或者是不同專業課別有關呢"},{"start":16449.529,"end":16476.774,"text":"就是整體的我們大概都有掌握不過委員提醒我們這個地區差異我們來特別看一下好那就是你們都是有利用健保資料庫去統計那如果說衛福部有掌握這些差異性的分布那是不是我們今天討論的這個醫療人力不足就可以很清楚的掌握大約因為年假的關係哪些區域"},{"start":16477.574,"end":16501.603,"text":"好的哪些醫院可能會短缺什麼樣的這個科別的醫療人力而且短缺多少也可以根據經驗提早掌握因應了那舉例而言在我們台東縣在過年期間有沒有醫療人力不足的問題那他的醫療資源有限那分級醫療更是困難所以衛福部你們的掌握到的狀況是怎麼樣大概"},{"start":16503.645,"end":16527.723,"text":"以台東本來資源就比較缺乏啦那這個醫院的話都是會開診那大概我們過去的資料是初一初二初三開診率是最低的所以我們今年才會有那個加成獎勵百分之百加成在這幾天就是這樣那麼這個診所的開診率比較低我們現在再繼續給他努力"},{"start":16528.723,"end":16551.29,"text":"就是當年初一到初三這三天對對對這幾天是比較低那所以我們這樣目前醫療人力的調度啊那個衛福部有沒有就是你們的具體做法是怎麼樣就是說是不是限制休假啦那這些加班的人力啊有沒有根據這個勞基法國定假日薪資增加2.67倍同時可以補休"},{"start":16554.191,"end":16576.304,"text":"那目前這些需要調整的醫療人力的醫療院所衛福部有什麼職權你們可以來要求加強調整我們的做法是兩塊一個是說門診的部分分流所以從基層的去鼓勵那麼在醫院的部分重症的收治還是重要"},{"start":16576.684,"end":16597.478,"text":"因為過去會關床 大家要休假所以我們現在請醫院調整一下大家的休假前後段把這個住院的量也叫去年給它提升所以住院的部分的病床也會比去年增加那麼至於獎勵的部分"},{"start":16599.42,"end":16622.202,"text":"80%都一定要給人員不是拿去做醫院的其他用的對 就80%一定都給上班的人員去使用大概是目前是用這樣的有一個問題你沒有回答到就是說當然有一些部分是依據勞基法的部分因為我們除了醫師之外都是勞基法"},{"start":16624.451,"end":16648.667,"text":"因為我們除了醫師之外其他都是適用勞基法人員對對對那我是說他落實的狀況如何這樣子落實的狀況對因為有就是說畢竟是這個過年過年加班他的這個薪資增加計算的方式倍數比較多嘛就這個部分你們可能要留意一下我們再提醒好對好"},{"start":16649.187,"end":16663.523,"text":"那在過去曾經像譬如說在COVID的期間那政府有做了很多的提醒衛福部也有一個很強大的這個APP然後來提醒民眾這個很多的該注意的事情"},{"start":16664.144,"end":16693.308,"text":"大概是像過年期間其實我們好像沒有聽過說衛福部是有發布新聞稿啦或者有做什麼來提醒民眾要注意身體健康要注意保暖或腸胃消化系統的不是那就是說同時可能也因為面臨這個人力吃緊的問題我們就是說可以做哪些配合或者是說我們應該可以從這個源頭來提醒民眾備藥啦或者是有一些"},{"start":16694.689,"end":16707.827,"text":"狀況我們是可以在家裡自行處理的不要就是說大家一窩蜂全部都往醫院擠畢竟那個診所應該這個時候是大部分都不會有人所以這個部分"},{"start":16709.75,"end":16731.069,"text":"就是說是不是我們做可以在今年做這樣子的準備跟提醒不曉得部長是不是這個同意本席的建議然後讓民眾知道就是說我們哪些集中症可能會發生要怎麼預防如果不幸需要緊急就醫那哪些醫療院所可以提供這個比較完善的照顧"},{"start":16731.67,"end":16753.719,"text":"好那個謝謝委員提醒確實我們現在是朝向提供就醫資訊我們這個APP上都會去強化就醫資訊但是對民眾自我照顧的提升特別提醒的是這樣不要生病過年期間也不要這個熬夜打牌太久然後暴飲暴食這個也不好"},{"start":16754.739,"end":16766.358,"text":"那我們來強化一下這個自我照顧本來就有慢性病的更要注意嘛勸大家都不要打牌那個時候應該很困難不要打太久啦"},{"start":16767.776,"end":16786.075,"text":"好這個就看你們宣導的功力了那我們最後想請教就是這個急重症分級醫療實施的成效我想在這個分級醫療是維持我們健康品質的一個手段而不是一個目的那平常的這個醫療我們的這個分級醫療"},{"start":16790.299,"end":16801.668,"text":"有真的落實那春節的就可以很順利的執行所以要請部長說明一下在分級醫療目前執行上有沒有什麼困難那我們真的有落實嗎"},{"start":16802.691,"end":16825.16,"text":"我看了一些我們最近的這個分析這分級醫療有在改善就是各層級醫院他的輕症比例是在下降那麼包含醫學中心他現在所謂的輕症大概是就醫佔整個醫院的大概收入的38%然後到區域級醫院大概是50%然後到地區醫院是65%"},{"start":16826.34,"end":16851.805,"text":"你可以看得到這個三個層級是不一樣醫學中心還是看得比較多的重大傷病這個是可以看得出來那另外一個就是慢性病在基層就醫的比例也在提高也就是說慢性病拿這個長期處方籤的也在提升所以分級醫療有在進步但是呢還是有更多努力的空間這我們會持續用各種的方式來推動這樣"},{"start":16853.646,"end":16877.447,"text":"好我接下来问一个比较严肃的问题就是说有没有医学中心或区域医院拒绝转送还是说协调这个后送要花很长的时间去协调安排那这些需要转送的病人是急诊的病人居多还是重症患者治疗一段时间了然后才决定后送的"},{"start":16877.95,"end":16892.404,"text":"因為這些大概都攸關整個成效的指標那衛福部有沒有專責的單位在做統計分析不然你們要怎麼知道說你們做的分級醫療政策確實是有效的呢"},{"start":16893.089,"end":16910.412,"text":"就是急診的轉診率這個我們有有在monitor啦但是您提的是說住院了一段時間在轉診我想這個我們健保資料是有辦法分析那我們來分析看看有沒有這些異常的情形發生"},{"start":16911.333,"end":16925.25,"text":"因為有些是需要轉送的病人就是說那到底急診的多還是說重症患者好這些你們可能都要對就是住院之後又轉診的這部分就再特別留意看一下"},{"start":16926.431,"end":16944.491,"text":"因為部長你是真的非常難得就是從一位醫師然後從這個轉任常務文官然後又有擔任這個政務官的這個人才所以我想我們在這麼長的歲月的共識當中"},{"start":16946.96,"end":16970.891,"text":"我們像部長就是也不僅承認這個醫事司長那時候我也有在那健保署署長跟次長我都有在歷練非常的完整所以呢希望在這麼豐富的這個培養之下呢部長應該是最有能力跟經驗來解決今天討論的難題所以也希望"},{"start":16972.572,"end":16998.364,"text":"衛福部可以善用健保資料庫可以多考慮經濟誘因來取代強制性的管理跟管制所以我想如果是這樣的話一定是可以解決醫療人力短缺的問題不管是在平日或者是春節假日我想這個才是我們民眾的福氣是我們國家的福氣謝謝謝謝委員的鼓勵我們要繼續努力"},{"start":17002.725,"end":17020.987,"text":"好謝謝陳英委員發言那本日會議詢答全部結束那委員徐欣穎所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報現在做以下決定及決議第一報告說明及詢答完畢"},{"start":17021.909,"end":17044.334,"text":"二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定三國民年金法部分條文修正草案等19案另則期繼續審查本次會議到此結束現在散會"},{"start":17050.306,"end":17051.467,"text":"謝謝張委員 謝謝 謝謝新年快樂好"},{"start":17066.074,"end":17066.094,"text":"謝謝你們"}]}},{"id":"167346","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167346","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88a174b037e49e6c3d52fd623850d83d5b653d38850f4f11793af37138b611437b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"13:10:23 - 13:21:28","影片長度":"00:11:05","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T13:10:23+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T13:21:28+08:00","duration":665,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":3.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.6759687500000005,"end":10.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.67909375,"end":11.505968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.189093750000001,"end":15.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.26909375,"end":43.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.26471875,"end":62.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.65409375,"end":63.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.87346875,"end":73.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.47971875,"end":72.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.62284375,"end":104.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.34346875,"end":79.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.21284375,"end":112.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.35096875,"end":116.77221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.80659375,"end":114.79784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.09721875000001,"end":117.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.05909375,"end":118.45971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.81409375000001,"end":142.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.69284375,"end":138.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.52346875,"end":142.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.23221875000002,"end":157.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.99784375000002,"end":174.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.78846875000002,"end":174.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.80534375000002,"end":175.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.15971875000002,"end":185.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.69409375,"end":188.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.80346875,"end":187.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.84971875000002,"end":190.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.26284375,"end":219.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.81096875,"end":254.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.23596875,"end":260.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.06221875,"end":261.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.73284375000003,"end":267.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.49971875,"end":279.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.69659375000003,"end":279.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.42596875000004,"end":284.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.59471875,"end":280.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.10471875,"end":287.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.17596875000004,"end":288.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.07034375,"end":293.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.60534375000003,"end":297.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.04346875000005,"end":300.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.13596875,"end":300.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.38909375000003,"end":301.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.73909375,"end":303.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.71784375000004,"end":304.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.00034375,"end":361.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.98596875000004,"end":316.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.42471875,"end":342.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.66096875,"end":342.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.31409375000004,"end":348.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.15721875,"end":353.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.22346875,"end":365.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.66159375,"end":387.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.64284375,"end":377.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.91284375000004,"end":377.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.66659375,"end":410.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.39471875000004,"end":399.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.16971875,"end":409.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.68409375000005,"end":417.29909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.42159375,"end":421.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.39971875000003,"end":422.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.74534375,"end":426.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.55096875000004,"end":425.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.29346875000005,"end":426.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.81659375000004,"end":426.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.93471875,"end":458.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.00221875000005,"end":427.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.71034375000005,"end":509.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.44846875,"end":487.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.62221875000006,"end":514.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.81971875,"end":518.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.44784375,"end":548.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.0590937500001,"end":566.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.96346875,"end":567.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.13221875,"end":571.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.3090937500001,"end":569.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.2622187500001,"end":574.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.2790937500001,"end":572.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.3547187500001,"end":574.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.84409375,"end":575.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.9409687500001,"end":582.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.31221875,"end":577.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.8984687500001,"end":578.3034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.79284375,"end":581.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.9990937499999,"end":597.4397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.96284375,"end":601.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.5403437500001,"end":602.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.9409687500001,"end":603.3797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.9028437500001,"end":605.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.8772187500001,"end":609.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.8090937500001,"end":610.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.91034375,"end":653.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.2959687499999,"end":656.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.69596875,"end":660.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.9697187500001,"end":664.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.15909375,"end":665.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.3403437500001,"end":666.96471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":1.191,"text":"那麻煩請我們石部長有請石部長"},{"start":14.272,"end":42.831,"text":"三位也辛苦了谢谢部长好我们年关将近所以我们今天打算就春节期间医疗人力调度跟急重症分级医疗政策执行成效要跟部长请教几个问题首先在春节期间我们民众面临的急重症大概有哪些大概属于是哪些科别的医疗人力会短缺还是所有的科别的人力都会短缺"},{"start":43.891,"end":70.696,"text":"跟委員說明大概我們看過去的資料這個過年期間的這個急診人次大概是一般我們大概1.5到1.7倍啦多增加了很大一部分就是呼吸道還有腸胃道還有一些小外傷啦所以最多的還是呼吸道疾病是最多那又會剛好每年都碰到那個流感劑的高峰剛好都在過年期間"},{"start":71.536,"end":91.37,"text":"所以今年我們就提早因應了那這樣我們過去在微服部有沒有利用健保資料庫去統計分析春節期間民眾的就醫需求那是不是也跟平日有比較顯著的這個差異那這些差異呢是不是有這個跟這個地區別"},{"start":92.691,"end":103.252,"text":"有這個不同的規模或者跟應該是說有沒有跟這個地區別或者有沒有跟這個不同規模的醫療院所或者是不同專業課別有關呢"},{"start":105.536,"end":132.797,"text":"就是整體的我們大概都有掌握不過委員提醒我們這個地區差異我們來特別看一下好那就是你們都是有利用健保資料庫去統計那如果說衛福部有掌握這些差異性的分布那是不是我們今天討論的這個醫療人力不足就可以很清楚的掌握大約因為年假的關係哪些區域"},{"start":133.598,"end":157.626,"text":"好的哪些醫院可能會短缺什麼樣的這個科別的醫療人力而且短缺多少也可以根據經驗提早掌握因應了那舉例而言在我們台東縣在過年期間有沒有醫療人力不足的問題那他的醫療資源有限那分級醫療更是困難所以衛福部你們的掌握到的狀況是怎麼樣大概"},{"start":159.666,"end":183.732,"text":"以台東本來資源就比較缺乏啦那這個醫院的話都是會開診那大概我們過去的資料是初一初二初三開診率是最低的所以我們今年才會有那個加成獎勵百分之百加成在這幾天就是這樣那麼這個診所的開診率比較低我們現在再繼續給他努力"},{"start":184.752,"end":207.33,"text":"所以就是當年初一到初三這三天對對對這幾天是比較低所以我們這樣目前醫療人力的調度那個衛福部有沒有就是你們的具體做法是怎麼樣就是說是不是限制休假那這些加班的人力有沒有根據這個勞基法國定假日薪資增加2.67倍同時可以補休"},{"start":210.212,"end":232.328,"text":"那目前這些需要調整的醫療人力的醫療院所衛福部有什麼職權你們可以來要求加強調整我們的做法是兩塊一個是說門診的部分分流所以從基層的去鼓勵那麼在醫院的部分重症的收治還是重要"},{"start":232.708,"end":253.502,"text":"因為過去會關床 大家要休假所以我們現在請醫院調整一下大家的休假前後段把住院的量也叫去年給它提升所以住院的部分病床也會比去年增加至於獎勵的部分"},{"start":255.444,"end":278.226,"text":"80%都一定要給人員不是拿去做醫院的其他用對 就80%一定都給上班的人員去使用大概是目前是用這樣的有一個問題你沒有回答到就是說那當然有一些部分是依據勞基法的部分他們除了醫師之外都是勞基法"},{"start":280.492,"end":303.753,"text":"因為我們除了醫師之外其他都是適用勞基法人員對對對那我是說他落實的狀況如何這樣子落實的狀況對因為有就是說畢竟是這個過年過年加班他的這個薪資增加計算的方式倍數比較多嘛就這個部分你們可能要留意一下我們再提醒好對好"},{"start":305.214,"end":313.924,"text":"那在過去曾經像譬如說在COVID的期間那政府有做了很多的提醒衛福部也有一個很強大的這個APP然後來提醒民眾這個很多的該注意的事情"},{"start":320.171,"end":349.332,"text":"大概是像過年期間其實我們好像沒有聽過說衛福部是有發布新聞稿啦或者有做什麼來提醒民眾要注意身體健康要注意保暖或腸胃消化系統的不是那就是說同時可能也因為面臨這個人力吃緊的問題我們就是說可以做哪些配合或者是說我們應該可以從這個源頭來提醒民眾備藥啦或者是有一些"},{"start":350.713,"end":363.851,"text":"狀況我們是可以在家裡自行處理的不要就是說大家一窩蜂全部都往醫院擠畢竟那個診所應該這個時候是大部分都不會有人所以這個部分"},{"start":365.774,"end":387.096,"text":"就是說是不是我們做可以在今年做這樣子的準備跟提醒不曉得部長是不是這個同意本席的建議然後讓民眾知道就是說我們哪些急症症可能會發生要怎麼預防如果不幸需要緊急就醫那哪些醫療院所可以提供這個比較完善的照顧"},{"start":389.018,"end":409.746,"text":"謝謝委員提醒確實我們現在是朝向提供就醫資訊我們這個APP上都會去強化就醫資訊但是對民眾自我照顧的提升特別提醒的是這樣不要生病過年期間也不要熬夜打牌太久然後暴飲暴食這個也不好"},{"start":410.766,"end":422.379,"text":"那我們來強化一下這個自我照顧本來就有慢性病的更要注意嘛勸大家都不要打牌那個時候應該很困難不要打太久啦"},{"start":423.78,"end":442.085,"text":"好這個就看你們宣導的功力了好那我們最後想請教就是這個急重症分級醫療實施的成效我想在這個分級醫療是維持我們健康品質的一個手段而不是一個目的那平常的這個醫療我們的這個分級醫療"},{"start":446.306,"end":457.708,"text":"有真的落實那春節的就可以很順利的執行所以要請部長說明一下在分級醫療目前執行上有沒有什麼困難那我們真的有落實嗎"},{"start":458.735,"end":487.086,"text":"我看了一些我們最近的這個分析這分級醫療有在改善就是各層級醫院他的輕症比例是在下降那麼包含醫學中心他現在所謂的輕症大概是就醫佔整個醫院的大概收入的38%然後到區域級醫院大概是50%然後到地區醫院是65%所以可以看得到這個三個層級是不一樣醫學中心還是看得比較多的重大傷病"},{"start":487.906,"end":507.847,"text":"這個是可以看得出來那另外一個就是慢性病在基層就醫的比率也在提高也就是說慢性病拿這個長期處方籤的也在提升所以分級醫療有在進步但是還是有更多努力的空間這我們會持續用各種的方式來推動這樣"},{"start":509.67,"end":533.468,"text":"好 我接下来问一个比较严肃的问题就是说有没有医学中心或区域医院拒绝转送还是说协调这个后送要花很长的时间去协调安排那这些需要转送的病人是急诊的病人居多还是重症患者治疗一段时间了然后才决定后送的"},{"start":533.973,"end":548.428,"text":"因為這些大概都攸關整個成效的這個指標那衛福部有沒有專責的單位在做統計分析不然你們要怎麼知道說你們做的這個分級醫療政策確實是有效的呢"},{"start":549.113,"end":566.436,"text":"就是急診的轉診率這個我們有有在monitor啦但是您提的是說住院了一段時間在轉診我想這個我們健保資料是有辦法分析那我們來分析看看有沒有這些異常的情形發生"},{"start":567.297,"end":581.597,"text":"對 因為有些是需要轉送的病人就是說那到底急診的多還是說重症患者好 這些你們可能都要對 就是住院之後又轉診的這部分就再特別留意看一下好"},{"start":582.438,"end":600.515,"text":"因為部長你是真的非常難得就是從一位醫師然後從這個轉任常務文官然後又有擔任這個政務官的這個人才所以我想我們在這麼長的歲月的共識當中"},{"start":602.984,"end":626.918,"text":"我們像部長就是也不僅承認這個醫事司長那時候我也有在那健保署署長跟次長我都有在歷練非常的完整所以呢希望在這麼豐富的這個培養之下呢部長應該是最有能力跟經驗來解決今天討論的難題所以也希望"},{"start":628.599,"end":655.151,"text":"衛福部可以善用健保資料庫可以多考慮經濟誘因來取代強制性的管理跟管制所以我想如果是這樣的話一定是可以解決醫療人力短缺的問題不管是在平日或者是春節假日我想這個才是我們民眾的福氣是我們國家的福氣謝謝謝謝委員的鼓勵我們要繼續努力"},{"start":658.749,"end":665.478,"text":"好謝謝陳英委員發言那本日會議詢答全部結束"}]}},{"id":"167345","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167345","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a8803739612ddea285452fd623850d83d5b653d38850f4f1179b72b967369a5ca435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"12:50:57 - 13:10:16","影片長度":"00:19:19","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T12:50:57+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T13:10:16+08:00","duration":1159,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.624718750000001,"end":8.333468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.957843750000002,"end":11.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.079718750000001,"end":12.822218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.079093750000002,"end":16.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.24346875,"end":17.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.11659375,"end":19.454093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.449718750000002,"end":21.394718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.85034375,"end":22.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.875343750000003,"end":24.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.242218750000003,"end":25.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.507843750000003,"end":28.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.00971875,"end":28.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.02659375,"end":28.617218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.617218750000003,"end":28.735343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.735343750000002,"end":29.106593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.675968750000003,"end":36.970343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.611593750000004,"end":41.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.27346875,"end":46.150343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.01534375,"end":46.049093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.049093750000004,"end":46.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.62284375,"end":46.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.74096875,"end":48.242843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.736593750000004,"end":48.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.22596875,"end":48.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.51284375,"end":54.250343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.284093750000004,"end":54.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.31784375,"end":54.587843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.85784375,"end":57.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.54534375,"end":57.000968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.40159375,"end":59.19471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.19471875000001,"end":59.549093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.61659375000001,"end":64.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.57784375,"end":65.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.14721875000001,"end":77.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.49284375,"end":68.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.40284375,"end":77.74034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.68971875000001,"end":84.01784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.13596875,"end":84.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":84.18659375,"end":84.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.40596875,"end":85.70534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":84.42284375,"end":84.49034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.70534375000001,"end":102.20909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.63096875000001,"end":130.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.45346875000001,"end":104.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.30909375,"end":110.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.51471875000001,"end":117.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.94784375,"end":126.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.96471875,"end":127.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.13346875,"end":127.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.10346875000002,"end":131.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.90909375,"end":132.22971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.56721875,"end":139.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.87846875,"end":139.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.11471875,"end":139.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.30034375,"end":139.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.38471875000002,"end":139.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.29596875000001,"end":159.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.17471875,"end":167.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.17346875,"end":176.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.58971875,"end":189.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.58784375000002,"end":189.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":189.60471875000002,"end":189.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.87471875,"end":189.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.54971875,"end":190.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":190.98846875,"end":191.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.56221875,"end":192.01784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":192.01784375000003,"end":226.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.47346875000002,"end":192.87846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.36659375000002,"end":201.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.64721875,"end":215.25471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.88159375,"end":230.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":230.35784375,"end":234.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.20534375000003,"end":246.01784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.50784375,"end":242.62596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.08534375000002,"end":254.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.16971875000002,"end":246.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.09784375,"end":247.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.99221875,"end":248.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.32971875,"end":248.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.12284375000002,"end":249.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.86034375000003,"end":256.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.96971875,"end":258.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.01159375000003,"end":259.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":259.38284375,"end":260.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.78346875,"end":261.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":261.72846875,"end":262.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.01534375,"end":263.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":263.38221875,"end":263.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.63534375,"end":264.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.63096875,"end":265.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":265.93034375,"end":269.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.35596875000005,"end":283.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":278.90721875,"end":279.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.37534375,"end":286.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":287.54721875,"end":289.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.38659375000003,"end":297.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.99284375,"end":305.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.55284375,"end":305.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.83971875000003,"end":308.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.09659375,"end":311.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.16409375,"end":317.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.39909375,"end":320.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.90096875,"end":320.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.87534375,"end":326.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":329.11034375,"end":330.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.01284375,"end":333.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":332.94096875,"end":333.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.78471875,"end":333.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.83534375000005,"end":337.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.40471875000003,"end":339.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.00346875,"end":349.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.96409375,"end":347.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":347.52096875,"end":347.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":347.87534375,"end":347.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.22971875,"end":352.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.96346875,"end":374.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.70659375,"end":385.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.11409375000005,"end":392.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.40909375,"end":388.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":388.42596875000004,"end":389.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":389.47221875,"end":393.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.23534375,"end":393.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":393.40409375,"end":396.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.43784375,"end":394.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.86784375,"end":396.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.03659375,"end":396.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.07034375,"end":398.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.34846875000005,"end":399.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":400.37346875000003,"end":402.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":402.55034375,"end":402.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.02284375000005,"end":403.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.29284375000003,"end":403.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.37721875000005,"end":403.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.98471875,"end":405.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.43596875000003,"end":407.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":405.62159375000005,"end":410.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.41409375,"end":419.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.78846875000005,"end":419.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":419.67846875000004,"end":419.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.89784375000005,"end":423.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.15096875,"end":420.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":423.44159375000004,"end":431.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.14159375,"end":426.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.93471875,"end":427.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":432.09846875000005,"end":434.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.42284375,"end":448.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.10846875000004,"end":451.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.97721875,"end":456.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.70221875000004,"end":462.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.65034375000005,"end":466.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.40534375000004,"end":468.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.59471875,"end":469.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.86846875000003,"end":473.83034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":473.72909375,"end":497.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.85471875,"end":480.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.80971875000006,"end":629.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.81096875,"end":516.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.07534375,"end":526.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.7722187500001,"end":632.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.8559687500001,"end":636.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.2478437500001,"end":638.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.15909375,"end":638.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.6147187500001,"end":646.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":647.2547187499999,"end":648.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.84096875,"end":649.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":649.4484687500001,"end":650.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.83659375,"end":653.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.07221875,"end":655.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.2534687500001,"end":655.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.72159375,"end":657.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":657.6159687500001,"end":658.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":659.3034687500001,"end":670.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.1459687500001,"end":670.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.60534375,"end":673.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.6472187500001,"end":675.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.7734687500001,"end":679.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":679.63784375,"end":679.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":679.8740937500002,"end":681.9834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.9834687500002,"end":682.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.30409375,"end":685.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.67909375,"end":687.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":686.0503437500001,"end":690.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.64471875,"end":694.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":694.84221875,"end":721.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.63534375,"end":729.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":726.71909375,"end":726.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.8328437499999,"end":728.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":728.59221875,"end":730.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.87471875,"end":734.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.5747187500001,"end":733.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":734.8022187500001,"end":735.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.15659375,"end":735.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":736.8103437500001,"end":742.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":741.94034375,"end":741.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":742.09221875,"end":743.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":742.66596875,"end":744.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":743.74596875,"end":744.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.45471875,"end":745.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.70346875,"end":745.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":745.75409375,"end":746.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.9565937500001,"end":747.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.98159375,"end":749.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":748.0322187500001,"end":748.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":749.21346875,"end":749.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.55096875,"end":750.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":749.92221875,"end":750.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.1922187499999,"end":750.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.25971875,"end":754.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":755.7778437500001,"end":758.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.26721875,"end":763.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":763.57409375,"end":765.9028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":763.7765937500001,"end":763.8272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.8272187500002,"end":765.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":765.95346875,"end":766.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":767.1684687500001,"end":771.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":771.35346875,"end":773.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":773.7665937500001,"end":774.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":774.7453437500001,"end":776.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":776.4328437500001,"end":777.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":777.4622187500001,"end":778.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":778.64346875,"end":779.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":779.03159375,"end":783.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":783.0478437500001,"end":806.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.7390937499999,"end":788.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":804.8503437500001,"end":818.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":808.59659375,"end":808.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":808.6303437500001,"end":809.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":816.9328437500001,"end":816.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":817.3547187500001,"end":817.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":818.31659375,"end":819.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":818.6540937500001,"end":826.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":821.25284375,"end":821.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":825.91034375,"end":826.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.41659375,"end":826.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.60221875,"end":826.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.9228437500001,"end":836.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":828.3740937500002,"end":832.5928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":833.7234687500002,"end":834.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":835.90034375,"end":835.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":835.9172187500001,"end":836.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":836.2040937500001,"end":836.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":836.2378437500001,"end":836.5078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":836.5078437500001,"end":838.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":838.65096875,"end":839.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":840.6084687500002,"end":842.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":843.34221875,"end":846.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.5990937500001,"end":856.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":858.1415937500001,"end":859.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":860.45346875,"end":871.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":871.4897187500001,"end":871.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":872.0803437500001,"end":877.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":877.1765937500002,"end":879.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":879.64034375,"end":880.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":881.2097187500001,"end":882.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.96471875,"end":890.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":890.8959687500001,"end":891.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":891.85784375,"end":893.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":894.20346875,"end":895.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":896.22846875,"end":898.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":899.40096875,"end":899.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":900.85221875,"end":902.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":902.35409375,"end":903.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":904.76721875,"end":905.1553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":905.4253437500001,"end":906.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":907.0959687500001,"end":908.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":908.58096875,"end":908.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":908.88471875,"end":908.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":909.15471875,"end":946.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":946.56659375,"end":946.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":946.68471875,"end":947.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":947.0390937500001,"end":947.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":947.68034375,"end":947.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":947.7647187500002,"end":948.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":948.5915937500001,"end":948.6084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":948.6084687500002,"end":949.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":949.6040937500002,"end":950.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":950.0090937500001,"end":951.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":951.9834687500002,"end":955.8647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":956.1853437500001,"end":959.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":959.76284375,"end":962.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":962.54721875,"end":962.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":963.27284375,"end":971.1197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":971.40659375,"end":972.6215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":972.6384687500001,"end":972.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":972.6553437500002,"end":973.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":973.00971875,"end":973.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":973.2122187500001,"end":974.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":974.79846875,"end":974.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":974.81534375,"end":976.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":976.75596875,"end":979.9790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":980.1140937500002,"end":980.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":980.31659375,"end":984.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":984.8390937500001,"end":987.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":987.8259687500001,"end":988.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":988.01159375,"end":989.5303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":989.8003437500001,"end":994.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":994.6772187500001,"end":995.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":995.03159375,"end":996.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":996.4153437500001,"end":1004.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1004.5322187500001,"end":1004.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1006.6753437500001,"end":1007.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1008.83534375,"end":1010.4890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1011.3328437500002,"end":1012.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1012.91909375,"end":1026.9759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1027.2459687500002,"end":1028.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1028.96721875,"end":1030.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1031.3297187500002,"end":1042.8553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1040.5940937500002,"end":1040.7290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1044.15471875,"end":1047.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1047.7828437500002,"end":1056.3722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1056.4565937500001,"end":1057.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1060.4222187500002,"end":1061.2828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1062.3965937500002,"end":1062.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1063.3584687500002,"end":1065.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1066.6322187500002,"end":1068.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1068.4715937500002,"end":1068.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1068.7078437500002,"end":1069.1297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1069.63596875,"end":1070.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1070.78346875,"end":1072.0828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1072.97721875,"end":1082.2247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1082.2415937500002,"end":1094.5940937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1096.0284687500002,"end":1097.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1097.63159375,"end":1099.1165937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1099.47096875,"end":1099.8084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1099.87596875,"end":1100.3484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1100.3484687500002,"end":1101.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1101.0403437500001,"end":1101.0740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1102.4409687500001,"end":1102.8797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1103.1328437500001,"end":1104.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1104.3140937500002,"end":1104.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1104.6853437500001,"end":1105.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1106.30534375,"end":1108.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1108.43159375,"end":1108.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1108.83659375,"end":1109.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1109.7815937500002,"end":1110.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1110.86159375,"end":1133.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1133.4065937500002,"end":1135.8028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1135.73534375,"end":1135.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1135.98846875,"end":1147.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1147.27784375,"end":1147.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1147.8515937500001,"end":1147.9190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1147.9190937500002,"end":1148.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1148.1384687500001,"end":1149.5728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1150.1465937500002,"end":1151.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1151.31096875,"end":1152.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1152.5597187500002,"end":1156.9134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1159.3097187500002,"end":1161.6553437500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.992,"end":36.748,"text":"謝謝召委,有請石部長請石部長歐元豪部長好社保司有來?有社家屬沒有來?社家屬沒有好,部長行政院在上週二十二日通過國民年輕法的不問條文修正草案就像現行的"},{"start":37.717,"end":64.784,"text":"每個月4049要提高到包含這個移屬年金及原名的企務上調為每月5000嘛沒有錯嘛然後身心障礙年金從每月的5437調高到6715漲幅將近23.5這是行政院的一個圖卡就公民年金企務再提高保險津貼都調整是這樣那簡單的算數"},{"start":66.384,"end":85.488,"text":"有算過這樣一年要增加多少嗎?就是從原有老年金、一屬年金及原民的幾乎五千然後如果減四零四九所以要增加九百五十一嘛,對不對?那身障年金是六七一五減原有的五四三七所以要增加到一二七八所以估計要多少預算?"},{"start":86.008,"end":100.443,"text":"跟文包這裡三塊一個是基本年金的部分這裡一調整大概會需要多增加156.3億那另外一個是排富因為我們把門檻拉"},{"start":102.885,"end":125.123,"text":"把它拉高啦所以等於放寬排富啦放寬排富之後呢會多受益的人數就會增加大概2萬多人這邊會多增加13.5億那如果我們再根據CPI去調超過3%我們又再調一次那這邊又會再多受益176萬人所以大概會再增加25.1億所以整個合起來大概會增加194億"},{"start":132.923,"end":137.056,"text":"就這兩大項加起來每年要再增加194億對沒有錯嘛對對對"},{"start":141.175,"end":167.068,"text":"那因為我們現在要將國民年金的企務再提高那基本上我本人也有提案 絕對是雙手雙腳 仗著因為物價的指數一直在飆高嘛 對不對但是部長的思考的範疇裡面就只有針對國民年金跟身障的年金其他的牽涉到大四五津貼沒有一併做通盤檢討然後給行政院做具體的建議"},{"start":168.223,"end":176.499,"text":"因為你一旦動到國民年金基本上就之前我們就跟行政有提醒過我們希望趕快將國民年金的這樣的一個"},{"start":177.785,"end":202.751,"text":"幾乎可以提高但是我們也必須要很坦誠的只要提高公園金那相對的八大事務津貼你通通必須一併思考考量甚至你通通要往上提高是有嗎有有另外還有我們一共是八大您提到的有八大福利津貼那還有六個沒有調整這個調完之後調了兩個了那還有六個沒有調整"},{"start":203.291,"end":225.095,"text":"那六個裡面有三個是屬於低收入戶的包含他的這個家庭生活補助包含他的這個兒童補助還有這個就學的補助這個還有三個那另外還有兩個是屬於中低收入戶一個是屬於弱勢而少的那我們也一併提了建議案那麼在行政院很快就會有"},{"start":225.895,"end":244.974,"text":"會有決定下來所以有一併都提到行政院讓行政院去做有有有一併這時間上會陸陸續續那個我有中低勞嘛中低產嘛對不對那還有低收入各款嘛對還有就學的嘛還有包含這個家庭的嘛包含兒童的嘛還有特勤的嘛對"},{"start":246.355,"end":255.283,"text":"全部通通有提供給好那如果全部要一併8到15現在應該叫8加1啦全部如果全部調整的話扣掉這16919多"},{"start":259.042,"end":285.388,"text":"那其他還要多少這邊194對 這邊194嘛將近200億了啦對那還要增加到多少那個等行政院拍板才知道那個金額是多少沒有 這怎麼會削減到行政院拍板是衛生部本身就要盤整然後把這個相關的一個預算規模都抓出來給行政院去做最後一個裁定才對啊怎麼會變成行政院在幫你們抓預算有方案會影響到那個這個"},{"start":287.859,"end":308.032,"text":"預算的規模啦所以您問我預算要會影響到多少這個還沒有辦法拍板因為是根據那個方案才決定那個預算規模假設以現在的國民年金跟現在的津貼你已經基本上調高將近23.5那其他的如果依照這樣"},{"start":310.234,"end":325.17,"text":"不只這樣那以最低這樣來講嘛更高的當然是最好啊那大致上是多少你應該讓委員會知道一下因為這個原本我們也在之前有具體建議過也希望一併來全面思考8加1的社會津貼該條就該條了"},{"start":332.071,"end":338.814,"text":"幾百億啦沒有那個叫幾百億的確實是你的專業啦但是因為你當了部長這一塊你還是要惡補要趕快惡補你怎麼可以回答委員會回答我說是幾百億這一定要行政院拍板之後我知道啦我知道"},{"start":352.899,"end":362.547,"text":"因為貿易經濟你以為他算規模才有多少嘛,我不是說你今年要拍完定案啦嘛你總是要給我知道多少多少嘛,要給社會大眾知道多少嘛政府要給他特別價值,他不會說檔局多少嘛,跟金融快樂獎金要兩百多嘛所以還有6加1嘛,那從民運總統加起來可能要達700至800億,還是800到1000億嘛"},{"start":374.858,"end":389.863,"text":"我想給社會大眾知道這個事情非常的正確也應該讓大家知道行政院衛部有這樣的決心要針對8加1的社會基金的對象要好好提升照顧啊但是你現在回答我幾百億這個很奇怪現在都精準醫療啊大約啦 大約大概在300億左右不只啦"},{"start":400.427,"end":408.973,"text":"新增 我說的是新增預算喔新增預算不是全部喔那你這兩項 這裡新增是差不多194億嘛這兩項的新增就194億的其他還有 我就講8加1嘛8加1等於9嘛 9擴掉這兩項 還有7嘛你算6也沒關係嘛 那怎麼可能才300多億"},{"start":423.742,"end":433.551,"text":"6的人數因為他有一部分是低收入戶當然啦一部分是低收入戶然後再加上的是弱勢而少啦人數沒有這麼多這邊是176萬人"},{"start":435.438,"end":455.97,"text":"好啦我姑且相信你啦好不好你要不要把那個你們評估起來相關的預算的大概給委員會給我做參考可不可以好不好不要落差太大啦你也會有漏氣喔然後跟部長要請教的是500減4049所以增加9516715減5437增加1278你覺得這樣合理嗎"},{"start":464.69,"end":466.498,"text":"因為他現在在周圍的便當店簽了一個便當額一百塊"},{"start":472.898,"end":496.038,"text":"不想覺得這樣合理嗎?因為國民年金還是需要永續當然啦現在新增的部分都是由中央政府直接撥補的預算這個也受到財化法的影響所以我們希望未來行政院版本的財化法如果修正之後我們再繼續檢討"},{"start":498.059,"end":504.481,"text":"我是建議部長啦好不好就是越弱勢的我們更應該照顧嘛所以當然不能說所有的每一項的津貼都等同資嘛但是朝向一個最大的一個一個大家可接受的一個調漲然後來保障照顧這些最弱勢的對象我想部長有起這個責任啦所以這個預算應該提高到什麼程度如果說你經過有詳細的一個盤整盤算"},{"start":523.747,"end":540.015,"text":"我想今天應該你答我就會很肯定嘛那甚至於我們還可以大家一起共同努力來跟行政院來做這個反應也讓全國的針對這8加1的社會津貼的對象都有感在行政院在衛福部的主政之下對這些對象有特別的這樣的一個"},{"start":542.556,"end":570.957,"text":"因應現在的經濟狀況物價指數的情形然後有所對他們更高的這樣的一個協助跟支持我想這樣會讓人民感受到政府的溫度也感受到這樣溫暖所以還是要提醒一個星期內應該可以把這些資料給我們可以啦好不管怎麼樣我今天還是要提醒就是我們我們很少這樣包含老紅津貼包含津貼料照牌的公民年金很少我們需要去調整到"},{"start":571.937,"end":592.706,"text":"這個提高整個津貼的這樣的一個金額的時候我們的總預算還沒有通過啦大家都非常清楚這個新增預算新興項目延續性的新增預算基本上總預算沒有過就是即便法律通過了也通通不可以動之的所以我們是希望努力的可以來跟"},{"start":593.526,"end":615.562,"text":"在兩位委員溝通我們竟然把法案都排進來了然後行政院也表示了這樣的一個正面的正向的態度那我想總預算真的是要快速的來審查不然今天我們在這邊討論包含老人今天也好包含前兩天通過了農民儲金也好要由公部門來負擔比例提高基本上總預算沒有過這些法律過通通還是沒有辦法去執行了"},{"start":617.944,"end":643.455,"text":"所以這是一個非常非常非常矛盾,也非常現實的一個狀況我在這邊也公開再度來做呼籲那第二件事情,我時間到了嗎?時間比較快,我的主持都比較快這個印度發生立百病毒的疫情,部長知道嗎?知道已經引起周邊國家警戒,亞洲多個國際機場都已經加強的篩檢,台灣有嗎?"},{"start":647.313,"end":654.78,"text":"篩檢沒有啦 台灣沒有嘛亞洲很多的國際機場都已經篩檢了 台灣沒有台灣沒有 是台灣覺得還好沒有這麼重要這個應該是講 不是什麼篩檢 就是發燒篩檢戰啦那因為我們的機場從來沒有測過我們一直 其他的機場他們測掉了可是台灣的機場 這個發燒篩檢啊"},{"start":672.133,"end":677.655,"text":"這一個是強調圖為泰國蘇納萬府的機場嘛他們是加強篩檢他下標是這樣嗎?因為我們台灣的發燒篩檢站從來沒有撤離過啦所以等同吃就對了因為立百病毒的RO值第一不會大流行"},{"start":695.722,"end":721.724,"text":"應該是說它目前的數據R0是0.2到0.7啦就是說一個人傳染下一個的人數是0.2個到0.7所以它不會擴大像過去我們那個都是5啊6啊一個人傳好多人的那這個R0值是低於1但是因為雖然它傳播力沒有那麼強可是它的致死率很高才會引發大家的關注"},{"start":722.694,"end":735.646,"text":"但是部長知道1998年在馬來西亞經歷了那個立百仙村當時的災難發生什麼事情嘛我知道對不對它是造成三個國家將近300人感染的病例其中100多人死亡耶對然後"},{"start":736.874,"end":752.831,"text":"然後還在馬來西亞進900個豬場,90多萬隻豬頭被捕殺的,這樣算是嚴重嗎?嚴重啊第三個嚴重,對人的性命、胖腔八卦也不算輕的,對不對?對啊,所以它不只是可以人傳人,還可以豬傳人,還可以豬傳豬的"},{"start":756.596,"end":773.446,"text":"這個比我們在要防治非洲疫情的情況之下應該是大家要提高更高的警覺才對吧所以對人而言但是對產業而言我想那個落差值非常非常大"},{"start":774.873,"end":802.062,"text":"是不是要請部長 不能大意 沒有鬆懈的本錢 不能因為病毒 脖子低 我們就掉個清心嘛對 我們已經提高那個警戒程度了 包含從機場的部分 除了發燒篩檢會注意之外也提醒旅客出現相關的症狀 要去就醫 要表明他的旅遊史然後我們也發了醫界通函 提醒這些可能的症狀是什麼"},{"start":805.404,"end":821.558,"text":"我今天會提醒這個事情因為農曆春節快到了反國的鄉親你還能預估嘛所以我們要加強警戒我們可能整個篩檢什麼都要再提高所以變態比較辛苦是不是你可以直接就連結農業部看這個事情要怎麼應應對付"},{"start":827.223,"end":856.122,"text":"我覺得這是有其必要的一週內提供給我們做你們要怎麼提升的這樣一個處理的方式最後一項WHO也是一樣上週22號川普大帝已經宣布了退出WHO這個世界衛生組織昨天我原本想要發表一些看法其實這個世界衛生組織是世界最不衛生組織"},{"start":858.744,"end":880.117,"text":"現在美國已經退出了那理由很簡單2019年台灣早就對新型的冠狀病毒發生事情但WHO卻假裝台灣不存在錯失了防疫的先機我們原本有觀察員身份後來被他們取消掉年年好幾年要扣關要申請一個觀察員的身份通通不給我們"},{"start":881.278,"end":903.461,"text":"然後我們提出這麼嚴重相信已經算是有人類原始以來造成最大人員死傷的新冠病毒COVID-19台灣2019就已經提出來WHO適合不見所以它叫做世界最不衛生組織現在全世界第一強國美國就已經退出了"},{"start":905.494,"end":918.888,"text":"台灣的態度是什麼?明年還在扣關嗎?這個跟委員說明,確實美國退出WHO,我相信對WHO的衝擊影響比對台灣還要大"},{"start":920.149,"end":945.222,"text":"所以我們會密切的觀察後續WHO它的影響會多大但是在目前而言WHO還是全球最主要的衛生醫療平台公共衛生醫療平台所以我們還是會持續的有意義的參與當然未來如果美國有成立新的平台的時候當然我們也會積極爭取去參與"},{"start":947.003,"end":972.474,"text":"我覺得有時候是借力使力啦借機發揮啦讓台灣的整個對世界衛生的貢獻醫療的這樣的一個付出真的是你要趁這個機會順勢而為啦我想今天在兩年前AI國際台北AI國際電腦展可以辦了這麼大的盛會這是全世界級的"},{"start":973.474,"end":994.11,"text":"雖然名稱叫台北但是他還是一個世界級的那今天川普已經宣布退出WHO那其實也跟世界衛生組織宣戰嘛你們這個就是不公平嘛你們這個就是不公正嘛你們這個還在隱匿嘛然後針對這麼嚴重的事情台灣提出這麼嚴重的事情你還敢視而不見嘛"},{"start":995.111,"end":1009.608,"text":"那其實因為部長我為什麼希望今天用這個會期最後一次委員會再用多一點的時間來提醒部長因為部長在衛生醫療這個單位公務部門已經滿久的時間"},{"start":1011.557,"end":1029.603,"text":"當AI的國際展 台北AI的國際展可以辦到如此的盛大那台灣整體的醫療 台灣整體的衛生的維護台灣整體的很多的 這樣的一個面向的一個整體提升醫療環境 衛生環境我們努力貢獻 是不是也可以趁這個機會"},{"start":1031.383,"end":1057.719,"text":"可以達到某種程度的一個渲染然後一個一個一個一個一個一個發揚我們更精準的這樣的一個作為就好比台北醫療電腦廠的道理一樣那甚至也可以邀請美國一起來共同來研辦這件事情那AI醫療現在已經都不用再介紹了那AI的機器人 醫療的機器人其實基本上這個都是台灣應該要走在世界的前端"},{"start":1062.544,"end":1071.856,"text":"趁這個機會啊應該部長有你的能耐跟你的經驗嘛而且這速度要快嘛對不對有沒有機會上半年度我們就可以"},{"start":1073.018,"end":1096.849,"text":"搞一個比世界衛生組織開會更具有效果的然後提出前瞻預警性的相關的對醫療對衛生環境有所有所示警全世界還是建置什麼樣的一個模範讓全世界可以來瞭解到對台灣對這樣的一個付出貢獻確實有達到某種程度的效益還有智慧趕快來思考"},{"start":1102.452,"end":1109.979,"text":"這真的可以做 你要趁這個機會 其實我看川普在大補台給你他沒有機會大補台給總統 總統有外交的管理他要去發表什麼 要去某個地方 你要保證在這個時間是可以很充分的典型 台灣的醫療 台灣的環境衛生"},{"start":1125.314,"end":1152.108,"text":"很多制度 基本上是可以跟世界 走在世界前面然後今天又有這樣的一個情勢發生真的請部長展示智慧啦 好不好對 好好讓我們台灣可以再持續讓台灣可以做世界的台灣啦讓台灣的整個衛生醫療可以在世界再度的躍升這個舞台 好不好好 好啦 一個二來對啦 好不好好 謝謝 好 謝謝召委 謝謝"},{"start":1153.549,"end":1156.932,"text":"好 謝謝劉建國召委接下來最後一位請陳英委員發言這個很辛苦喔 剛到了"}]}},{"id":"167344","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167344","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88e9ac263079a3a29c52fd623850d83d5b653d38850f4f1179b6d5a35e119f76195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"12:40:10 - 12:50:49","影片長度":"00:10:39","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T12:40:10+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T12:50:49+08:00","duration":639,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.844093750000001,"end":9.919718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.379093750000003,"end":14.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.442218750000002,"end":25.090343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.37784375,"end":22.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.17471875,"end":31.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.55346875,"end":31.570343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.570343750000003,"end":31.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.58721875,"end":31.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.97534375,"end":60.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.51471875,"end":37.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.45971875,"end":37.814093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.02034375,"end":42.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.85909375,"end":46.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.94346875,"end":46.977218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.977218750000006,"end":47.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.24659375,"end":51.617843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.055968750000005,"end":56.157218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.03846875000001,"end":98.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.45909375000001,"end":69.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.93034375,"end":77.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.75159375000001,"end":87.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.10159375,"end":88.47284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.77909375,"end":101.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.05721875,"end":113.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.40971875000001,"end":121.56471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.10471875,"end":133.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.30971875,"end":145.66221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.21159375000002,"end":140.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.31284375,"end":140.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.78034375000001,"end":146.08409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.03346875,"end":147.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.77159375000002,"end":150.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.77534375000002,"end":151.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.51784375,"end":152.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.95659375,"end":161.79471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.01409375,"end":164.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.22471875000002,"end":167.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.61284375000002,"end":164.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.61659375000002,"end":176.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.97409375,"end":183.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.43346875,"end":179.81721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.79596875000001,"end":182.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.34409375,"end":193.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.06846875000002,"end":209.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.24534375000002,"end":194.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.46034375000002,"end":195.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.99596875,"end":198.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.75471875000002,"end":202.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.31909375,"end":224.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.16659375,"end":212.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.57909375000003,"end":218.59596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.59596875000003,"end":219.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.69284375,"end":219.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.70471875,"end":239.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.45346875,"end":239.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.79096875000002,"end":261.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.78159375,"end":246.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.96659375000002,"end":250.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.91159375,"end":251.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.29409375,"end":283.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.32346875,"end":261.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.25471875,"end":270.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.54971875,"end":271.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.76034375,"end":273.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.03034375000004,"end":274.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.23284375000003,"end":274.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.04159375,"end":283.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.76721875000004,"end":283.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.83471875000004,"end":284.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.85159375,"end":284.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.76284375,"end":286.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.89784375,"end":286.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.61909375,"end":288.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.52596875,"end":294.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.67784375,"end":294.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.63471875000005,"end":297.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.14096875,"end":297.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.67221875,"end":319.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.70596875,"end":298.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.41846875000005,"end":301.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.68846875,"end":301.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.83096875,"end":307.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.38721875000005,"end":312.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.33596875,"end":316.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.38596875,"end":332.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.77346875,"end":325.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.42721875,"end":326.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.55721875,"end":331.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.72596875000005,"end":331.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.24471875,"end":340.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.54346875000005,"end":339.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.31534375,"end":340.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.51784375,"end":348.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.61909375000005,"end":340.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.58409375,"end":348.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.76971875000004,"end":353.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.15284375000005,"end":357.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.91596875000005,"end":358.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.99596875000003,"end":361.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.01284375,"end":359.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.94909375000003,"end":366.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.75471875000005,"end":363.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.83909375,"end":363.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.39596875,"end":366.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.58971875000003,"end":366.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.60659375,"end":366.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.69096875,"end":366.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.84284375000004,"end":366.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.89346875,"end":366.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.97784375000003,"end":367.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.02846875,"end":367.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.19721875000005,"end":367.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.28159375,"end":367.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.38284375,"end":369.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.45034375,"end":372.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.01096875,"end":373.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.15409375,"end":376.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.17096875000004,"end":373.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.96784375000004,"end":377.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.65971875,"end":399.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.67659375000005,"end":377.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.98409375,"end":381.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.94034375,"end":391.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.24409375000005,"end":391.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.27784375000005,"end":391.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.67784375,"end":396.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.54659375,"end":401.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.09909375,"end":401.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.97659375,"end":402.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.14096875,"end":425.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.39909375,"end":433.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.36409375000005,"end":438.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.70159375000003,"end":441.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.17284375,"end":446.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.32409375000003,"end":451.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.39909375,"end":454.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.86284375,"end":456.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.51221875000005,"end":466.59096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.57409375000003,"end":467.85659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.60784375000003,"end":466.62471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.87784375,"end":470.87721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.40471875000003,"end":506.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.97846875000005,"end":471.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.63596875,"end":503.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.37409375000004,"end":527.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":527.30721875,"end":556.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.95471875,"end":542.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.8940937500001,"end":552.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.78846875,"end":553.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.8259687500001,"end":556.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.2140937500001,"end":556.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.3490937500001,"end":591.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":557.5303437499999,"end":560.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.0022187500001,"end":562.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":562.0190937500001,"end":563.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.1497187500001,"end":563.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.2803437499999,"end":564.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.29721875,"end":564.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.31409375,"end":566.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.78971875,"end":575.5359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.1259687500001,"end":580.8178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.52596875,"end":585.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.67784375,"end":586.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.3772187500001,"end":596.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.6215937500001,"end":595.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.7690937500001,"end":598.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.0178437500001,"end":624.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.3803437500001,"end":600.1397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.93221875,"end":605.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":608.5772187499999,"end":608.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.89784375,"end":608.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.82784375,"end":625.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.5365937500001,"end":626.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.31284375,"end":631.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.9665937500001,"end":630.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.51846875,"end":633.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.9740937500001,"end":638.73284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.87,"end":30.88,"text":"主席好,麻煩請部長,謝謝好,議員好部長好,您現在就是為了要那個紓解像類似去年過年期間,急診室的用色狀況嘛現在有一個做法是說,希望診所可以多開嘛那我現在就您的了解,現在門診在診所願意開的那個醫院高嘛"},{"start":32.078,"end":58.943,"text":"我們統計的去年最低的時候大概是在初一、初二、初三這三天大概都不到5%2%到4%的開診率那我們今年就弄了這些方案然後現在一直在登記當中現在初三的開診率已經可以超過10%初一、初二我們還在努力醫院的部分大概開診率過去初一、初二也都是休息的現在也有開診"},{"start":61.004,"end":76.494,"text":"我現在先針對那個門診部分跟您討論因為我當然也有去了解一下其實大家其實意願不是太高啦為什麼 誘因不足因為現在衛福部你們提出來的誘因是讓他的診查費可以兩倍嘛對不對 兩倍嘛"},{"start":78.655,"end":98.7,"text":"但是他在春節開診像初一初二初三開診的話成本也會提高為什麼呢因為不可能醫師自己來開診嘛你總是有護理師嘛掛號員啊藥師啊那通常這些相關的工作人員他的薪水門診的院長就是診所的院長也要給他們大概兩到三倍啊"},{"start":99.86,"end":111.367,"text":"所以他們會有一個低門檻嘛這成本嘛那如果你在過年期間開業然後結果病人沒有到大概平均30個以上的話實際上他還會虧本啊"},{"start":114.488,"end":136.596,"text":"所以大家可能就會覺得誘因不足那乾脆去放假也不用拗那些護理師春節來加班所以我覺得當然我覺得部長你們想到這個方法希望門診可以多開去紓解大醫院的急診的量我覺得不錯可是在執行面上會有這樣的問題所以我其實再給你一個建議其實你就可以直接把"},{"start":137.276,"end":165.498,"text":"他們可能延伸的固定成本直接給他們舉例來講你今天如果願意開業的話一整了一整就給他們一萬塊那你現在全國的門診全國的診所大概多少個一萬間一萬兩千間一萬兩千間嘛你今天如果有兩成兩成的人願意在春節假設啦很良好的狀況兩成的人願意在春節開診的話一個診大概如果一萬塊大概就兩千萬就是大概兩千萬"},{"start":166.098,"end":193.225,"text":"那如果多幾個多幾天大概一兩億就可以解決了你現在是說變多少錢要來解決這個春節紓解的問題因為我們是根據就醫量大概16億但是他包含住院他包含住院對所以增加一點點增加一點點你就可以讓門診願意開業的這個意願會高很多你研究看看好我們研究看看你研究看看"},{"start":194.325,"end":209.564,"text":"這個用統包制啦這個跟委員講說現在這個UCC我們那個假日期就是用這個概念我們直接付那個終點費啦幾個小時多少錢這個概念跟您講的是一致的我現在就把我們"},{"start":210.545,"end":239.407,"text":"因為我也希望說春節的時候我們比如說鄉親們啊都在看醫生不要遇到這種不舒服擁擠的狀況對不對那大家能夠去就近去診所看我也是樂觀其成啊但我的了解的狀況意願就是我把剛剛可能你聽不到的東西講給你聽了啦那現在就看你願不願意做嘛你提高一點點的工作獎金讓大家覺得說至少可以支付我固定成本"},{"start":239.867,"end":255.517,"text":"那就不會他們就不會考慮說好我願意配合初一開業啊大家都來啦負三倍薪水啊然後可能沒有什麼沒有什麼病人那一天等於就沒有收入嘛然後而且支出變多嘛啊你就讓醫生護理師在這從過年而已啊"},{"start":257.597,"end":276.762,"text":"你這個研議一下你覺得這個可能性高嗎我們會有一個調整的就是先開啦到時候如果沒有那麼多了但是你開了我們再來看看怎麼補給你對 補給他啦對 也可以或者是說你直接如果你超了已經超出的那超出就OK啊你可以啊你有這個承諾也很好如果用一個後續的"},{"start":277.562,"end":301.212,"text":"因為病人沒有出來我們預算已經框在這裡的我們就去回田我覺得你今天能夠做出這樣承諾也很好啊至少那一些願意開業的醫生大家都沒有生病沒有用到最好嘛那我最好嘛那但是我們預算跟他開了嘛對不對然後他會有成本嘛你就補給他嘛可以可以好不好就朝這個方向啦我相信大家願意開的那個意願可能就更高了啦"},{"start":301.792,"end":319.583,"text":"然後第二個問題同樣也是醫療資源問題因為我們我是板橋嘛我們板橋55萬人口但我們只有一間大型醫院就是雅東醫院那所以有時候有病人的話都要往別區跑跑雙河啊或者是跑跑其他的地方"},{"start":320.475,"end":341.398,"text":"那本來我們新北市政府是有規劃一個板橋的醫療園區這個部長您應該很清楚啦我也清楚之前流標了嘛那流標原因我也覺得非常奇怪啦因為當時三年前新北市政府就跟衛福部申請了大概要開499床衛福部也同意了然後結果呢"},{"start":342.359,"end":361.089,"text":"準備要蓋的時候都規劃好要蓋的時候然後要上網招標健保署忽然有一個新的規定出來就是說新的如果新設醫院大概一年只給兩億對吧所以有這個新的沒有這是假消息是不是沒有沒有沒有這個規定沒有這個規定那為什麼那為什麼之前"},{"start":362.049,"end":376.651,"text":"所以你用這個機會澄清我覺得是好事因為他們現在要重新招標沒有這個規定啦那當初是什麼是怎麼講的我不知道這個消息完全不知道因為那時候就是傳出來說要總額控管嘛"},{"start":377.748,"end":401.998,"text":"總和控管各大型醫院都已經分配好了量了然後如果說有新設醫院的話就2億那當然就沒有人要來投標啊本來有一家醫院投標後來就聽到這個消息之後不投標這過程你很清楚啊然後你很清楚啊因為2億的話大概就是一般的門一個門診啊那怎麼可能是499床啊結果那所以你可以澄清一下因為我們要鼓勵"},{"start":403.238,"end":425.144,"text":"優質的醫院來投標跟委員說明第一個我們鼓勵雖然醫院是一家大型的可是診所還是很多所以要新開的這一家絕對是以急重症優先不是在看一般的門診這是第一個第二個我看最近新北市也在做了一些調整那個調整的方向我是蠻支持的"},{"start":427.426,"end":441.082,"text":"調整的方向就是第一個配合衛福部嘛所以他還有100個長照的床嘛對不對 然後就針對長輩嘛區域是缺乏的對啊 但關鍵是關鍵就是說我覺得為什麼我覺得你們"},{"start":442.344,"end":456.505,"text":"要了解為什麼一開始有一家大型醫院要投標後來他要測標就是因為健保總額管制嘛當初是傳兩億那你可能不是兩億那是多少對不對因為你總額的量會讓那些醫院"},{"start":457.526,"end":476.214,"text":"提高也是剛剛一樣提高誘因嘛如果你今天是給30億30億那當然他意願就會高嘛那2億就不高那新北市政府為什麼會做調整他是等於是降低的醫院來來投標的成本嘛委員我跟您說明齁這個事實上是每個醫院的總額會一個區一個固定的總額"},{"start":476.934,"end":477.054,"text":"對 我知道這個"},{"start":504.148,"end":527.169,"text":"已經蠻多醫院醫院有醫院了這個我都知道但關鍵就是大家的顧慮還是在於健保署會不會有一個總額總額控管然後那個總額控管的量會不會很小所以不等大概啦因為2億是控管會議的決定但是不是衛福部的決定嘛對吧那衛福部你們認為像這種大型的醫院大概可以到多少你覺得合理"},{"start":527.589,"end":551.801,"text":"因為要這麼說這個一定會影響到地方的資源的重分配啦因為人口就這麼多啦也沒有增加啦所以一定是這邊有新的就有的地方會替代過來所以我們才會說這每年以100到150場的規模然後我們核給的這個額度就是跟它一樣規模的醫院一年是多少"},{"start":552.461,"end":575.638,"text":"就是這樣大概多少那就要看他是那一個層級的醫院所以不會有一個像類似講的什麼先把那個額度框出來那我重新這個詮釋一下你的意思大概就是說那個像這樣的一個大型的醫院他應該多少就可以拿到多少對就是他的同等級醫院這麼多床大概是大概多少所以就是多少所以就跟"},{"start":576.559,"end":591.033,"text":"這個全國的各大型的醫院講說不用擔心就放心來投標請大家拿出你的用品質服務的品質來這邊但是新的案子還是比以前的好我知道這為什麼是就是因為"},{"start":592.478,"end":608.738,"text":"之前傳出的消息出來嘛大家不願意來投嘛 覺得怕虧本嘛所以市府後來就編了很多公務預算進去嘛對不對 包括停車場都市府自己興建嘛所以看得出來市府真的很想促成這件事情啦所以也希望說中央也可以在旁邊協助因為這個對板橋來說 如果"},{"start":610.72,"end":631.436,"text":"我們在板橋五十五萬人口如果有多一家大型醫院一定可以紓解很多我們的鄉親看病的醫療可以增加醫療資源啦所以希望衛福部可以站在協助促成的立場 好不好好 新的案子比較OK啦好 謝謝部長 新的案子不OK好 謝謝好 謝謝葉援之委員發言接下來請劉建國委員發言"}]}},{"id":"17243","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17243","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcd600d02e1221ac87521c71e7043aa1ace692bdb9a1e479770db6f294b0fbbec55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續併案審查\n（ㄧ）委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員吳宗憲等22人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二、繼續審查委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「法院組織法第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-29","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-29T08:31:23+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:10:00+08:00","duration":5917,"影片長度":"01:38:37","委員發言時間":"08:31:23 - 10:10:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-4-36-19"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2065.93596875,"end":2071.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2071.42034375,"end":2088.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2088.70034375,"end":2089.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2089.98284375,"end":2093.0878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2093.29034375,"end":2093.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2094.0497187500005,"end":2104.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2104.4109687500004,"end":2112.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2112.40971875,"end":2113.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2113.35471875,"end":2122.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2122.65284375,"end":2123.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2123.6990937500004,"end":2126.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2126.80409375,"end":2129.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2129.6559687500003,"end":2148.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2148.9609687500006,"end":2150.8847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2151.08721875,"end":2155.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2156.26784375,"end":2160.2165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2159.40659375,"end":2159.7440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2160.67221875,"end":2162.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2163.22034375,"end":2163.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2164.63784375,"end":2168.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2167.8103437500004,"end":2168.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2169.4978437500004,"end":2177.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2179.2178437500006,"end":2182.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2182.0359687500004,"end":2182.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2182.5253437500005,"end":2183.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2183.8415937500004,"end":2186.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2186.89596875,"end":2189.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2188.02659375,"end":2188.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2188.3134687500005,"end":2188.7184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2188.7184687500003,"end":2188.9040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2190.01784375,"end":2190.7097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2190.7097187500003,"end":2191.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2191.09784375,"end":2191.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2191.16534375,"end":2191.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2192.19471875,"end":2192.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2192.32971875,"end":2192.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2249.2997187500005,"end":2255.0203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2255.4928437500002,"end":2256.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2257.6190937500005,"end":2297.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2297.30909375,"end":2298.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2297.6465937500006,"end":2297.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2298.03471875,"end":2298.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2299.3172187500004,"end":2299.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2299.3678437500002,"end":2302.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2303.31659375,"end":2303.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2304.83534375,"end":2306.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2306.7422187500006,"end":2306.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2306.89409375,"end":2309.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2307.0459687500006,"end":2307.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2307.41721875,"end":2309.5097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2309.0372187500006,"end":2309.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2309.23971875,"end":2309.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2309.30721875,"end":2309.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2309.3240937500004,"end":2309.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2309.34096875,"end":2309.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2309.5097187500005,"end":2309.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2309.52659375,"end":2309.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2309.76284375,"end":2312.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2313.82971875,"end":2314.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2314.0322187500005,"end":2314.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2314.8084687500004,"end":2315.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2315.12909375,"end":2317.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2315.56784375,"end":2315.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2315.7872187500006,"end":2315.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2315.85471875,"end":2315.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2315.97284375,"end":2316.3272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2316.3272187500006,"end":2319.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2317.32284375,"end":2317.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2317.8797187500004,"end":2317.8965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2317.8965937500006,"end":2322.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2320.9509687500004,"end":2320.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2320.9678437500006,"end":2321.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2321.03534375,"end":2322.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2322.0309687500003,"end":2322.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2322.84096875,"end":2322.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2323.81971875,"end":2324.2247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2325.27096875,"end":2325.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2326.5534687500003,"end":2328.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2335.1259687500005,"end":2340.4753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2336.2565937500003,"end":2337.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2341.0997187500006,"end":2345.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2343.7322187500004,"end":2344.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2345.5378437500003,"end":2347.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2347.44471875,"end":2347.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2347.63034375,"end":2347.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2347.8328437500004,"end":2347.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2347.9678437500006,"end":2348.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2348.10284375,"end":2348.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2348.7272187500002,"end":2348.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2350.6678437500004,"end":2352.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2353.7390937500004,"end":2357.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2357.5359687500004,"end":2362.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2363.22284375,"end":2364.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2364.8259687500004,"end":2366.3278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2367.3572187500004,"end":2373.5672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2374.9678437500006,"end":2386.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2386.8309687500005,"end":2388.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2388.95721875,"end":2393.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2393.5303437500006,"end":2394.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2394.34034375,"end":2402.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2402.23784375,"end":2410.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2411.4178437500004,"end":2415.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2416.26096875,"end":2423.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2424.2428437500002,"end":2426.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2427.9215937500003,"end":2433.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2433.62534375,"end":2434.4353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2434.89096875,"end":2457.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2457.8240937500004,"end":2457.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2458.0097187500005,"end":2458.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2458.04346875,"end":2460.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2461.7559687500006,"end":2462.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2463.0722187500005,"end":2465.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2466.4303437500002,"end":2469.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2469.36659375,"end":2480.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2484.01409375,"end":2487.8278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2488.63784375,"end":2495.6072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2495.69159375,"end":2510.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2512.46534375,"end":2533.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2535.5672187500004,"end":2550.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2552.6278437500005,"end":2567.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2569.21596875,"end":2579.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2579.3240937500004,"end":2583.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2584.35284375,"end":2586.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2586.9684687500003,"end":2588.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2588.3522187500002,"end":2604.3497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2604.8897187500006,"end":2610.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2611.0153437500003,"end":2629.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2630.05034375,"end":2636.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2636.98596875,"end":2639.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2639.97284375,"end":2651.7009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2651.85284375,"end":2652.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2653.7428437500002,"end":2665.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2665.72409375,"end":2667.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2667.9347187500007,"end":2668.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2670.9215937500003,"end":2672.0690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2672.87909375,"end":2674.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2674.7184687500003,"end":2676.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2677.8065937500005,"end":2678.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2678.68409375,"end":2679.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2681.50221875,"end":2684.1853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2686.51409375,"end":2687.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2688.92721875,"end":2689.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2690.59784375,"end":2691.9815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2692.60596875,"end":2694.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2695.7615937500004,"end":2696.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2697.29721875,"end":2697.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2699.0184687500005,"end":2699.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2700.18284375,"end":2703.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2703.99659375,"end":2704.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2704.9247187500005,"end":2707.2703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2707.5740937500004,"end":2708.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2710.13909375,"end":2710.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2711.0840937500006,"end":2713.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2714.6784687500003,"end":2716.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2716.75409375,"end":2718.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2720.44971875,"end":2720.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2722.0528437500006,"end":2723.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2723.82471875,"end":2725.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2725.25909375,"end":2726.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2726.87909375,"end":2727.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2728.53284375,"end":2729.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2729.5622187500003,"end":2731.2159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2731.70534375,"end":2738.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2739.11346875,"end":2741.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2741.8640937500004,"end":2747.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2747.5340937500005,"end":2748.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2748.6140937500004,"end":2748.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2748.83346875,"end":2751.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2751.60096875,"end":2753.5753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2757.5915937500004,"end":2772.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2772.99846875,"end":2779.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2780.1872187500003,"end":2782.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2782.75221875,"end":2783.1065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2785.8065937500005,"end":2794.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2794.9022187500004,"end":2798.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2799.74534375,"end":2801.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2802.2428437500002,"end":2803.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2803.67721875,"end":2805.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2806.44471875,"end":2811.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2812.0303437500006,"end":2814.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2814.27471875,"end":2817.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2817.7340937500003,"end":2819.3878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2819.4890937500004,"end":2819.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2820.2822187500005,"end":2825.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2826.50909375,"end":2828.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2829.39471875,"end":2832.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2832.76971875,"end":2834.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2835.18284375,"end":2837.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2838.57471875,"end":2845.7803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2846.64096875,"end":2850.1172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2850.7584687500002,"end":2858.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2859.17909375,"end":2862.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2862.9590937500006,"end":2867.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2868.20721875,"end":2871.3797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2871.76784375,"end":2874.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2874.4678437500006,"end":2877.4040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2877.7247187500006,"end":2880.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2880.9815937500007,"end":2885.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2886.0947187500005,"end":2899.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2899.6959687500002,"end":2902.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2902.6659687500005,"end":2906.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2907.52596875,"end":2915.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2915.94659375,"end":2934.9815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2935.79159375,"end":2936.2303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2938.23846875,"end":2942.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2942.96346875,"end":2943.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2943.1490937500002,"end":2945.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2946.6590937500005,"end":2950.3378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2950.5740937500004,"end":2954.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2954.9615937500002,"end":2958.1847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2958.67409375,"end":2960.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2961.0534687500003,"end":2961.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2962.42034375,"end":2964.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2965.42409375,"end":2970.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2970.0478437500005,"end":2973.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2974.2159687500007,"end":2977.3378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2977.86096875,"end":2981.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2981.5059687500006,"end":2985.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2985.67409375,"end":2994.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2994.78659375,"end":3002.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3003.29159375,"end":3025.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3029.43096875,"end":3046.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3046.32284375,"end":3046.5759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3049.02284375,"end":3056.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3056.1609687500004,"end":3058.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3058.3378437500005,"end":3061.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3061.37534375,"end":3072.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3072.64784375,"end":3080.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3080.89971875,"end":3084.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3084.6122187500005,"end":3088.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3089.33721875,"end":3090.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3090.8222187500005,"end":3094.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3094.2647187500006,"end":3096.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3097.3865937500004,"end":3102.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3103.32659375,"end":3104.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3104.42346875,"end":3112.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3113.14784375,"end":3113.4347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3113.9072187500005,"end":3122.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3122.3953437500004,"end":3125.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3125.3990937500002,"end":3132.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3132.68909375,"end":3135.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3136.1315937500003,"end":3140.1815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3140.40096875,"end":3143.1347187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3143.3709687500004,"end":3144.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3144.8897187500006,"end":3148.1972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3148.39971875,"end":3150.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3151.25159375,"end":3194.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3195.0759687500004,"end":3198.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3198.73784375,"end":3211.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3211.51221875,"end":3225.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3225.3834687500002,"end":3230.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3230.3278437500003,"end":3232.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3232.25159375,"end":3234.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3234.76596875,"end":3246.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3247.2872187500006,"end":3252.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3252.43409375,"end":3255.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3255.92721875,"end":3258.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3258.3740937500006,"end":3260.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3261.5128437500007,"end":3262.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3262.42409375,"end":3262.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3265.5965937500005,"end":3269.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3270.7265937500006,"end":3271.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3271.53659375,"end":3271.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3272.43096875,"end":3274.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3274.8778437500005,"end":3282.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3283.39971875,"end":3286.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3286.84221875,"end":3291.2128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3292.6640937500006,"end":3295.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3295.8028437500006,"end":3296.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3297.4228437500005,"end":3300.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3300.8653437500006,"end":3307.8009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3308.47596875,"end":3310.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3310.95659375,"end":3313.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3313.60596875,"end":3316.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3317.1159687500003,"end":3320.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3320.82846875,"end":3323.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3323.7647187500006,"end":3328.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3328.8778437500005,"end":3330.2109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3330.83534375,"end":3331.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3332.28659375,"end":3334.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3334.6153437500006,"end":3340.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3340.67346875,"end":3344.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3345.0440937500007,"end":3347.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3347.47409375,"end":3351.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3351.7940937500007,"end":3355.3209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3355.60784375,"end":3357.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3358.0378437500003,"end":3362.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3362.7965937500003,"end":3364.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3364.5009687500005,"end":3367.4034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3367.7072187500007,"end":3369.6815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3369.9178437500004,"end":3371.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3372.55034375,"end":3376.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3376.7859687500004,"end":3380.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3380.7684687500005,"end":3381.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3382.1015937500006,"end":3383.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3384.22784375,"end":3384.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3385.5778437500003,"end":3387.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3387.6365937500004,"end":3389.9822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3390.31971875,"end":3392.1759687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3392.6990937500004,"end":3397.7109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3401.11971875,"end":3405.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3405.8447187500005,"end":3409.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3410.45159375,"end":3412.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3411.34596875,"end":3416.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3417.5390937500006,"end":3417.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3417.85971875,"end":3417.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3418.2478437500004,"end":3418.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3418.39971875,"end":3418.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3418.82159375,"end":3419.1084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3419.1084687500006,"end":3419.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3419.2097187500003,"end":3421.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3421.8084687500004,"end":3433.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3434.02596875,"end":3443.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3444.4209687500006,"end":3445.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3446.54721875,"end":3482.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3482.6765937500004,"end":3483.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3484.33034375,"end":3508.5290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3508.9678437500006,"end":3553.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3553.8047187500006,"end":3554.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3556.4540937500005,"end":3557.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3558.36096875,"end":3560.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3560.9765937500006,"end":3566.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3566.6803437500002,"end":3572.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3572.94096875,"end":3580.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3581.1759687500007,"end":3583.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3583.84221875,"end":3584.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3585.36096875,"end":3592.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3593.30909375,"end":3594.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3595.46909375,"end":3604.5309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3606.2859687500004,"end":3623.2790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3623.9372187500003,"end":3624.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3625.11846875,"end":3629.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3629.75909375,"end":3642.4490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3643.14096875,"end":3648.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3648.4059687500003,"end":3649.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3649.95846875,"end":3651.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3651.34221875,"end":3651.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3651.8653437500006,"end":3652.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3653.0634687500005,"end":3659.9822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3660.31971875,"end":3661.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3662.2265937500006,"end":3664.3359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3664.77471875,"end":3668.0147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3668.9765937500006,"end":3671.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3672.73971875,"end":3675.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3676.0809687500005,"end":3678.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3679.5065937500003,"end":3691.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3692.1290937500007,"end":3697.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3697.7315937500007,"end":3699.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3699.36846875,"end":3704.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3704.6334687500002,"end":3707.2322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3707.4684687500003,"end":3709.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3709.93221875,"end":3712.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3712.9022187500004,"end":3716.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3717.2559687500006,"end":3725.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3725.82846875,"end":3728.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3728.3934687500005,"end":3733.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3734.56971875,"end":3738.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3739.09221875,"end":3745.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3745.2178437500006,"end":3746.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3747.4453437500006,"end":3786.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3786.9159687500005,"end":3790.7297187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3791.40471875,"end":3807.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3810.1697187500004,"end":3812.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3812.8359687500006,"end":3814.7597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3815.5359687500004,"end":3817.7634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3818.40471875,"end":3832.4109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3818.9109687500004,"end":3821.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3832.51221875,"end":3833.3897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3834.06471875,"end":3835.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3838.11471875,"end":3870.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3839.12721875,"end":3839.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3839.7684687500005,"end":3839.7853437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3839.7853437500007,"end":3839.8190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3871.2909687500005,"end":3896.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3900.19784375,"end":3909.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3909.2765937500008,"end":3911.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3911.40284375,"end":3912.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3912.1959687500002,"end":3926.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3926.45534375,"end":3930.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3930.69096875,"end":3931.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3934.96034375,"end":3936.4959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3935.19659375,"end":3943.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3942.80721875,"end":3945.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3944.24159375,"end":3959.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3947.8190937500003,"end":3948.1397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3953.40471875,"end":3953.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3955.09221875,"end":3956.1553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3957.55596875,"end":3957.8259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3959.4628437500005,"end":3959.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3960.7959687500006,"end":3961.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3963.0740937500004,"end":3964.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3965.5378437500003,"end":3968.3390937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3969.7565937500003,"end":3970.1447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3970.58346875,"end":3973.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3973.95846875,"end":3975.0215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3975.76409375,"end":3980.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3981.31596875,"end":3982.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3982.98659375,"end":3983.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3983.9484687500008,"end":3985.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3985.93971875,"end":3987.0197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3987.3740937500006,"end":3987.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3989.0109687500008,"end":3990.2428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3990.78284375,"end":3991.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3991.7615937500004,"end":3995.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3995.3222187500005,"end":3997.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3998.2922187500008,"end":3998.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3999.5240937500002,"end":3999.8278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4001.07659375,"end":4005.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4005.5147187500006,"end":4007.6915937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4007.9784687500005,"end":4009.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4009.7165937500004,"end":4012.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4012.65284375,"end":4016.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4016.5340937500005,"end":4027.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4027.6209687500004,"end":4029.5447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4030.0340937500005,"end":4034.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4034.4384687500005,"end":4039.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4039.41659375,"end":4040.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4041.4922187500006,"end":4042.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4043.0109687500008,"end":4047.4659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4048.7147187500004,"end":4049.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4050.13221875,"end":4050.8409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4051.27971875,"end":4054.9415937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4055.54909375,"end":4056.6628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4058.4347187500007,"end":4059.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4060.37534375,"end":4061.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4061.87721875,"end":4070.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4071.0740937500004,"end":4072.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4072.5084687500002,"end":4075.4953437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4075.8328437500004,"end":4081.5197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4081.84034375,"end":4087.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4090.14284375,"end":4099.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4104.216593749999,"end":4105.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4114.5947187500005,"end":4119.454718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4122.05346875,"end":4134.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4134.91221875,"end":4136.987843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4137.47721875,"end":4137.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4138.6415937500005,"end":4161.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4159.85346875,"end":4165.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4162.99221875,"end":4163.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4163.02596875,"end":4164.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4164.24096875,"end":4164.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4165.354718750001,"end":4170.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4169.4384687500005,"end":4169.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4170.450968749999,"end":4174.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4175.44596875,"end":4179.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4179.42846875,"end":4185.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4477.6434687500005,"end":4478.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4478.284718749999,"end":4486.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4487.73471875,"end":4495.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4502.145968750001,"end":4509.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4511.899718750001,"end":4512.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4513.33409375,"end":4514.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4669.680968750001,"end":4671.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4673.07284375,"end":4679.940968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4678.0340937500005,"end":4679.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4680.784718749999,"end":4681.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4681.61159375,"end":4681.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4682.74221875,"end":4685.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4688.02409375,"end":4691.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4695.21284375,"end":4696.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4699.88721875,"end":4700.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4702.030343750001,"end":4702.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4702.97534375,"end":4704.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4705.00034375,"end":4706.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4706.8397187499995,"end":4708.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4709.72534375,"end":4711.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4712.02034375,"end":4713.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4713.53909375,"end":4714.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4714.956593750001,"end":4715.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4715.96909375,"end":4717.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4717.724093750001,"end":4721.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4722.34784375,"end":4722.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4723.32659375,"end":4725.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4725.67221875,"end":4726.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4727.35971875,"end":4731.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4732.725968750001,"end":4739.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4740.4715937500005,"end":4747.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4747.862843750001,"end":4750.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4751.372843749999,"end":4753.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4753.920968750001,"end":4755.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4755.57471875,"end":4756.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4756.84034375,"end":4757.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4757.751593749999,"end":4760.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4761.34596875,"end":4761.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4762.08846875,"end":4762.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4763.3709687499995,"end":4764.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4766.40846875,"end":4767.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4768.18034375,"end":4774.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4777.259093750001,"end":4784.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4786.05096875,"end":4789.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4790.21909375,"end":4803.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4804.579718749999,"end":4811.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4817.202218750001,"end":4822.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4823.665343750001,"end":4831.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4832.11971875,"end":4841.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4841.805968750001,"end":4850.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4864.99221875,"end":4865.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4865.751593749999,"end":4868.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4871.2528437500005,"end":4886.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4887.790343750001,"end":4888.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4890.220343749999,"end":4892.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4893.983468750001,"end":4896.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4897.18971875,"end":4903.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4906.589093750001,"end":4914.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4914.503468750001,"end":4921.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4921.6415937500005,"end":4927.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4927.42971875,"end":4929.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4930.28159375,"end":4930.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4931.22659375,"end":4936.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4937.40284375,"end":4941.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4941.840968750001,"end":4944.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4944.96284375,"end":4947.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4947.6122187500005,"end":4950.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4951.27409375,"end":4953.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4953.90659375,"end":4962.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4963.10346875,"end":4968.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4969.04346875,"end":4972.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4972.6209687499995,"end":4976.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4976.36721875,"end":4979.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4979.7928437499995,"end":4981.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4981.311593750001,"end":4986.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4986.593468749999,"end":4988.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4989.360968749999,"end":5001.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5001.510968750001,"end":5003.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5003.7215937500005,"end":5005.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5006.06721875,"end":5007.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5007.58596875,"end":5010.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5010.792218750001,"end":5014.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5014.538468750001,"end":5020.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5020.208468750001,"end":5020.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5021.59221875,"end":5025.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5025.94596875,"end":5028.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5029.27034375,"end":5031.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5031.76784375,"end":5033.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5033.13471875,"end":5035.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5035.7840937500005,"end":5036.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5037.38721875,"end":5045.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5045.74034375,"end":5045.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5046.550343750001,"end":5048.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5049.182843750001,"end":5054.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5055.224093750001,"end":5055.595343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5056.810343749999,"end":5065.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5065.60221875,"end":5067.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5068.0322187500005,"end":5068.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5068.909718750001,"end":5072.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5072.74034375,"end":5076.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5076.80721875,"end":5091.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5091.4715937500005,"end":5094.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5094.23909375,"end":5098.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5098.390343749999,"end":5103.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5103.77346875,"end":5105.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5105.73096875,"end":5109.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5110.27034375,"end":5112.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5113.18971875,"end":5113.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5113.9490937499995,"end":5114.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5115.38346875,"end":5128.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5129.153468750001,"end":5133.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5134.09784375,"end":5135.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5136.3084687499995,"end":5137.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5137.540343750001,"end":5138.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5139.075968749999,"end":5141.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5142.5184687500005,"end":5145.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5145.30284375,"end":5148.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5148.72846875,"end":5149.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5150.21346875,"end":5150.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5151.29346875,"end":5152.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5153.2509687500005,"end":5166.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5167.27409375,"end":5168.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5169.130343750001,"end":5171.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5172.0497187500005,"end":5176.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5176.8084687499995,"end":5181.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5182.2928437499995,"end":5194.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5194.64534375,"end":5195.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5195.92784375,"end":5220.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5220.835343750001,"end":5233.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5233.93034375,"end":5234.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5235.16221875,"end":5238.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5239.14471875,"end":5253.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5254.12971875,"end":5261.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5261.6053437499995,"end":5262.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5262.61784375,"end":5282.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5283.4247187500005,"end":5293.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5294.54534375,"end":5302.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5302.5272187499995,"end":5318.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5318.659718750001,"end":5332.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5332.27784375,"end":5335.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5335.956593750001,"end":5354.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5355.02534375,"end":5356.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5356.88159375,"end":5358.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5358.75471875,"end":5361.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5365.18409375,"end":5370.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5370.786593750001,"end":5383.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5383.47659375,"end":5386.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5386.9022187499995,"end":5394.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5395.37346875,"end":5403.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5403.72659375,"end":5407.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5407.94534375,"end":5420.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5420.83784375,"end":5427.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5427.4697187500005,"end":5438.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5438.40471875,"end":5446.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5447.16284375,"end":5447.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5448.411593750001,"end":5448.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5451.14534375,"end":5456.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5456.241593750001,"end":5462.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5458.73909375,"end":5460.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5463.58221875,"end":5465.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5463.61596875,"end":5464.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5464.66221875,"end":5465.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5465.202218750001,"end":5466.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5466.14721875,"end":5466.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5466.889718750001,"end":5468.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5469.75846875,"end":5476.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5477.993468750001,"end":5479.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5484.2372187500005,"end":5485.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5486.73471875,"end":5486.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5486.751593749999,"end":5486.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5486.86971875,"end":5486.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5486.9540937500005,"end":5487.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5487.122843749999,"end":5488.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5487.20721875,"end":5504.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5496.269093750001,"end":5496.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5505.21284375,"end":5505.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5506.5965937500005,"end":5511.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5512.5028437500005,"end":5512.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5513.009093750001,"end":5513.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5513.12721875,"end":5524.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5515.32096875,"end":5516.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5518.03784375,"end":5518.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5524.669718749999,"end":5526.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5526.62721875,"end":5529.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5530.47471875,"end":5535.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5533.90034375,"end":5535.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5538.220343749999,"end":5548.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5540.565968750001,"end":5540.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5548.9697187500005,"end":5549.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5551.88909375,"end":5554.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5555.280968749999,"end":5557.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5556.90096875,"end":5556.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5557.154093749999,"end":5557.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5557.98096875,"end":5559.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5558.1834687499995,"end":5558.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5559.887843750001,"end":5559.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5560.259093750001,"end":5566.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5567.22846875,"end":5568.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5568.67971875,"end":5569.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5571.970343749999,"end":5572.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5572.03784375,"end":5572.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5572.965968750001,"end":5574.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5763.9403437500005,"end":5766.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5769.559718750001,"end":5771.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5771.905343750001,"end":5772.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5773.7615937499995,"end":5774.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5775.82034375,"end":5778.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5779.5497187500005,"end":5781.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5782.2665937500005,"end":5784.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5787.58221875,"end":5788.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5789.100968750001,"end":5790.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5791.22721875,"end":5793.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5793.8934687500005,"end":5797.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5801.1834687499995,"end":5805.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5805.30096875,"end":5811.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5813.77221875,"end":5833.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5834.88284375,"end":5841.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5844.43409375,"end":5860.634093750001}],"whisperx":[{"start":2066.113,"end":2092.242,"text":"在場的各位委員還有今天練習的接官代表各位線上的觀眾朋友們大家好我想今天在開會之前我有些話想要先講因為今天是我們這個會期思委會開會的最後一天那麼事實上就是我們知道我們這個在思委會的這個成員尤其是在我們在野黨這裡"},{"start":2094.848,"end":2111.385,"text":"長期這四個會期幾乎都是原班人馬特別是我們私委會非常重要的而且非常認真非常專業的黃國昌委員即將卸任所以在今天的會議"},{"start":2114.452,"end":2128.673,"text":"正式開始之前我作為主席而且作為國常委員我們長期至少這兩年我在國常委員身邊也學習了很多然後也很感謝他對我們"},{"start":2130.121,"end":2154.414,"text":"在司法法治委員會的貢獻不管在審查法案審查預算方面我覺得其實國昌都表現得非常非常好真的是足為我們司法法治委員會的楷模所以今天我在這邊我準備了一個小小的禮物也不曾定義那麼希望可以跟大家一起分享我想大家應該不會反對"},{"start":2155.915,"end":2161.678,"text":"我這邊準備了一個小小的小錦牌最佳夥伴然後無敵金牌夥伴錦標賽最佳夥伴獎"},{"start":2169.591,"end":2176.776,"text":"合作無間默契滿分不分彼此有你真好特頒此獎以之表揚"},{"start":2249.349,"end":2252.816,"text":"然後還有另外一個最佳夥伴講我是要頒發給在我身邊的陳專委"},{"start":2257.782,"end":2286.044,"text":"是嗎 對 陳專委因為他即將容身教育文化委員會的主祕所以在今天這個會議之後他之後就不會在我們司法法治委員會但是我想大家都知道陳專委其實對我們的這個整個的委員會的運作各方面都幫忙非常多尤其是幫忙我還有莊瑞雄委員莊瑞雄委員是資深委員了對 能夠比較不需要他的幫忙但是事實上陳專委"},{"start":2287.165,"end":2306.313,"text":"真的是幫我很多所以我想我們在這邊也頒一個最佳夥伴獎給我們的陳專委我們可以請我們所有的委員一起跟陳專委一起來來來我們一起來下來還有祖密一起吧對"},{"start":2314.34,"end":2322.167,"text":"來,兩位招委好,兩位招委來,兩位招委來,兩位招委來,兩位招委好,我們給陳教練一個讚"},{"start":2353.812,"end":2361.239,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝委員的確是我們的最佳夥伴好 那我們現在出席委員五人已達法定人數所以我們現在就進行開會"},{"start":2367.625,"end":2372.535,"text":"那我們現在就進行報告事項首先先宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":2375.071,"end":2401.718,"text":"立法院第十一屆第四會期司法及法治委員會第十八次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年一月十二日星期一上午九十一分至十二時十七分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員羅志強委員等十一人請教委員黃國昌委員一人列席委員鍾嘉斌委員等七人列席官員考試院秘書長劉建新等人主席翁召集委員小林"},{"start":2402.478,"end":2421.531,"text":"報告事項一選賭上次唯一意思錄決定確定二邀請考試院秘書長全區部部長行政院人事行政總署人事長內政部教育部行政院主席總署針對立法院通過之警消公教退休金改革法案之具體執行措施進行專題報告並備諮詢決定報告及詢談完畢討論事項一繼續並案審查"},{"start":2427.964,"end":2443.1,"text":"委員陳培宇等16人擬拒刑事訴訟法第101條之1條文修正草案等3案2審查委員吳宗憲等17人擬拒刑事訴訟法第404條條文修正草案案3審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬拒"},{"start":2444.301,"end":2460.41,"text":"刑事訴訟法第93條及第101條條文修正草案案是病案審查委員翁曉林等20人擬拒刑事訴訟法第108條條文修正草案等兩案本次會議由委員羅志強12人提出質詢"},{"start":2461.806,"end":2463.606,"text":"請問各位針對上次的會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏"},{"start":2488.7,"end":2509.541,"text":"好 沒有錯誤或遺漏 我們意思就確定那接著我就先介紹到場的委員現在有黃國昌委員 還有吳宗憲委員 鍾瑞雄委員 還有陳培宇委員那麼今天應邀列席的官員裡面有司法院的副秘書長王梅英副秘書長 法務部的支部次長徐錫祥 徐次長"},{"start":2512.706,"end":2532.926,"text":"其餘沒有介紹的列席代表就請參與名單本席不再逐一介紹並且列入公報記錄本次議程排定了討論事項有兩案分別繼續併案審查刑事訴訟法第101條之一的條文修正草案以及審查法院組織法第106條的條文修正草案"},{"start":2536.376,"end":2549.634,"text":"討論事項的兩岸 前經第三會期本會第十一次會議及第四會期的本會第十次 第十八次會議審查報告及詢答完畢 令定期繼續審查所以我們於今天就繼續審查"},{"start":2553.154,"end":2566.506,"text":"討論之前我們就先請議事人員宣讀討論事項個案的提案條文宣讀時間大概差不多兩分鐘如果有收到修正動議的話亦請一併宣讀宣讀之後我們就即刻進行討論就先請宣讀條文"},{"start":2569.264,"end":2583.499,"text":"宣讀提案條文 討論四項第一案 刑事訴訟法委員陳培宇等提案第101條之一 主政列第二十二款十二兒童及少年性剝削防治條例第36條第一項 第二項 第三項"},{"start":2584.42,"end":2600.185,"text":"第38條 第一項之最外 其與未修正台澳民眾黨黨團提案第101條之一修正第7款及第12款 分別如下7 刑法第339條 第339條之三 之詐欺罪第339條之四 之加重詐欺罪"},{"start":2604.946,"end":2620.455,"text":"诈欺犯罪 违害法治条例第43条第44条之最12刑法第319条之一第319条之二第319条之三第319条之四之妨害性隐私及不实性影像罪"},{"start":2621.215,"end":2648.448,"text":"兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第36條第一項第二項 第三項 第四項 第五項第三十八條第一項 第三項 第四項之罪並增列第十三款十三 組織犯罪防制條例第三條第一項前段之罪其餘同現行條文委員吳宗憲等提案第101條之一除第一項第十二款及第十三款分別同台灣民眾黨黨團提案第十三款及第十二款"},{"start":2649.068,"end":2676.157,"text":"其余條文均同台灣民眾黨黨團提案討論事項二討論事項第二案法院組織法委員翁曉林等提案第106條除增訂第三項如下經處死刑之評議部應永久保存其余均同現行條文繼續宣讀修正動議部分討論事項第一案修正動議一"},{"start":2677.864,"end":2691.151,"text":"第101條之一對照委員吳宗憲等22人提案除第一項第11款內第34條修正為32條第13款"},{"start":2699.056,"end":2727.228,"text":"第一項第十三款內第一項第二項第三項第四項第五項修正為第一項至第五項外與未修正討論四項第二案修正動議一第106條對照委員翁曉林等18人提案除第二項中增訂及被害人等字"},{"start":2728.841,"end":2753.219,"text":"徵定令徵定第三項為前三前項所稱被害人指犯罪被害人權利保障法第三條第二款之犯罪被害人犯罪被害人死亡者及其同條第三款之家屬視為本條所稱被害人原地原第三項以至第四項外與未修正宣讀完畢"},{"start":2757.922,"end":2781.725,"text":"好條文現在都已經宣讀完畢了我們就現在進行討論那討論事項第一案就繼續變案審查委員陳培宇等16人所拟據的刑事訴訟法第101條之一條文修正草案等三案請問在場委員因為本案條文是只有一條是否要先進行討論還是我們就直接進入逐條審查可以嗎好我們就直接進入逐條審查好"},{"start":2786.611,"end":2811.263,"text":"因為101條之一現在有三案然後再加上本席剛剛提出的有修正動議所以就是看看現在委員們要不要再提出討論來請 請黃國昌委員好 謝謝主席那個幾個版本大概希望大家針對預防性的羈押納入的內容"},{"start":2812.25,"end":2837.441,"text":"我看今天司法院綜合了以後的建議修正條文應該都有放進去台灣民眾黨黨團我們一開始提的時候針對妨礙性影像以及加重妨礙性影像以及兒少性剝削防治條例相關的罪名司法院有把它放進去了"},{"start":2838.872,"end":2861.887,"text":"針對詐欺危害防制條例43條44條司法院也把它放進去了針對我們希望組織犯罪防制條例發起操縱犯罪組織第三條第一項前段的部分司法院也把它放進去了所以我現在目前看起來就是"},{"start":2863.004,"end":2880.094,"text":"翁委員的版本今天翁委員跟一些委員所提出來的修正動議我剛對了一下基本上司法院全部都把它放進去了那我會建議今天看是不是就用司法院建議的條文"},{"start":2881.698,"end":2905.694,"text":"來當作基底如果大家都同意沒有另外的意見的話那我們寫上結論簽一簽看可不可以針對這個重要的預防性的羈押趕快完成三讀針對司法院所提出來的建議修正條文我只有一件事要跟司法院做確認185條之三不能安全駕駛罪"},{"start":2907.595,"end":2935.889,"text":"那這個之前呢在前幾次的國會當中也曾經提出過討論那也引發軒然大波那站在台灣民眾黨的立場我們對酒駕是完全沒有辦法容忍所以基本上面的態度把185條之三不能安全價值罪放到預防性羈押的射程範圍當中這個方向我們是覺得肯定的但"},{"start":2938.311,"end":2944.688,"text":"在整個罪行跟預防性羈押制度的衡量上面我要跟司法院再度的確認"},{"start":2947.825,"end":2972.8,"text":"185條之三不能安全駕駛罪它基本上如果只是單純的第一項之罪的話它的罪行相對而言是比較輕的是比較輕的那所以你們在進行研議的時候是確定185條之三不能安全駕駛罪第一項第二項你們都要把它列入射程範圍"},{"start":2974.922,"end":2993.838,"text":"認為第一項把它放進去也OK還是要不要考慮把它限定在第二項也就是致人致死或致中傷的狀態再把它放入預防性羈押的射程範圍這個是我最後要跟司法院確認的事情因為我不知道"},{"start":2994.861,"end":3010.82,"text":"你們在提這個建議修正條文的時候經過了什麼樣子的法制作業是不是真的有認真思考過在預防性羈押所有的條文當中你們把185條之3第二項要把它放進去我是100%贊同"},{"start":3012.962,"end":3038.273,"text":"第一項要把它放進去鑒於前幾次國會在討論這件事情所引發的一些相關的爭論你們是不是已經想清楚了這個是我今天想要就教司法院的問題因為剛剛黃國昌委員他的建議那本席也贊同是不是我們待會就以司法院建議的條文對照表來做討論"},{"start":3039.195,"end":3045.42,"text":"然後也請司法院還是把你們所提的修正動議跟大家再報告一次好嗎好 請好 張委還有各位委員早安各委員就刑事訴訟法第101條之一的預防性羈押相關的提案和本法的修法方向是一致的本院是競表贊同這個是最主要的"},{"start":3065.194,"end":3094.703,"text":"那另外呢配合現行的立法體例還有12年6月14號他所公布的人口販運防治法呢那原來第34條他已經一列到34條一列到32條了還有在綜合就是本次會議各委員的版本另外呢最主要本院所加的是在之前呢通過的院會那目前會賢行政院中的版本"},{"start":3095.282,"end":3118.539,"text":"所以說提出了本次刑事訴訟法101-1條第一項的建議修正條文第二點本院提出的建議修正條文和各委員版本的比較除了各委員版本所指的罪名之外加上了第一個是黃委員剛剛指教的刑法第185條"},{"start":3120.18,"end":3137.224,"text":"第三的不能安全駕駛罪還有272條之一的殺幼童罪第286條的凌略或者是那個妨害未成年健康發育罪第302條之一的妨害自由罪槍砲彈藥盜竊管制條例第9條之一第12條第13條第13條"},{"start":3143.484,"end":3160.738,"text":"之一的罪那就剛才那個黃委員所垂詢的問題在這裡那個表示如下有關於那個預防性那個羈押呢他所重的是在他那個反覆實施犯罪之餘這個是他重要的要件"},{"start":3161.278,"end":3164.842,"text":"那所以呢他不以說他是不是重罪為重啊那當然就是說光是那個酒駕呢他到底夠不夠沉他所側重在的就是說到底有沒有事實我們在個案中有沒有事實會認定說他會反覆性實施"},{"start":3177.874,"end":3207.214,"text":"那如果说他我们说个案啦就是通常如果说他只是第一次那这个酒驾这个情形呢他那个又酒测值又不高的话当然我们就很难说这个有可能个案上你很难就研判说他会反复可是我们在个案上确实看过那个已经非常多次次数非常多那那个酒测值又都非常高所以对于那个公共危险危害的程度他是很高的但是呢碍于说"},{"start":3207.754,"end":3223.039,"text":"他的罪本身的刑度並不高所以說他沒有辦法用一般的羈押要件去處理也因此本院把他納入了在這次的修法當中以上"},{"start":3223.699,"end":3242.332,"text":"另外一個說明就是說各委員的版本中有關於妨害性影像的犯罪都把它列為獨立條款本院是考慮到這一項犯罪是屬於告訴奶論之罪"},{"start":3242.972,"end":3262.804,"text":"那因此就是要就特別要就這個告訴乃論的那個是否已經有告訴這個部分做處理因此就是條例上把它移到就是本條的第二款第二款有關於那個告訴乃論之罪這邊一併處理那以上敬請指教那再請教看看委員們有沒有意見來請吳宗憲委員"},{"start":3272.78,"end":3290.845,"text":"我自己的希望的部分就是有關預防性羈押但我覺得他主要不是去看刑度所以司法院認為說這185之3我倒覺得說這個不要不需要限於第二項這是我的意見"},{"start":3292.711,"end":3316.361,"text":"因為食物上面本來1853第一項他反那個其實他很多人確實是一犯再犯然後也有剛剛交保或次回回去的時候然後他隔天或是他當天他又再犯所以這部分我是比較建議說不需要把它限制在第二項那再來就是這次預防性肌我自己希望"},{"start":3317.669,"end":3330.927,"text":"比較著重的幾個部分但第一個就是有關炸雞集團的部分因為主要是思考他再範率太高了因為炸雞集團他被抓交保之後其實他他再範率是非常高那"},{"start":3332.315,"end":3350.974,"text":"那還有最近發生一些就是相關的人被凌虐然後被囚禁等等這種集團性的犯罪所以我個人是主張說他一定要擴及到詐欺集團的部分那對於就是數位性暴力的這一塊這個也確實在這一次我們要求要加入"},{"start":3351.815,"end":3370.926,"text":"那我們看一下過往那個創意私房還有那個什麼台版N號房那個其實對對這些被害人傷害都很大然後再來就是對於那個組織犯罪我也覺得這幾個都是會都是有非常高度的反復實施之虞所以這部分我們都希望加入那有關司法院的這個"},{"start":3372.768,"end":3396.014,"text":"這個草案基本上他都有幫我們希望的東西都已經加進去了所以我也覺得說如果這樣的話是不是我們今天盡量看有沒有辦法讓這個條文大家能夠取得一個共識我想這個因為已經很久沒有看到對於這個條文大家有這麼高度的共識就是各黨之間所以既然這麼難得那我們是不是今天可以的話就讓這個順利過謝謝"},{"start":3401.169,"end":3415.358,"text":"好那這樣司法院還沒再回應剛剛委員說要不然還是先請周委員先發言好就先請那個因為委員的意見和我們是相同的所以我們競表同意謝謝"},{"start":3419.232,"end":3440.336,"text":"好 請召委員好 謝謝召委我針對今天的條文我倒想請建議我們司法院這個地方你像譬如說本來我們這個預防性羈押我們所爐裂的其實就是性犯罪的部分可是越來就越多越開越大"},{"start":3444.437,"end":3461.046,"text":"那當然這個其實也是一種隱憂啦也是一種隱憂就是這個社會啊這個社會啊就就發生了一些事情讓民眾比較越來越不能忍受就認為說這些東西啊犯了這種罪行的就是給你壓"},{"start":3462.366,"end":3483.568,"text":"壓是不是最好的一個方式那你好像沒有這樣這當然是一個方式但它未必最好的一個方式可是你那個比前年度來看我覺得應該是像比如說今年跟去年來做比較我看那個增加的一個幅度裡面又快將近30%了其實也越壓人越多那好像也沒有降"},{"start":3484.469,"end":3508.072,"text":"那好像是說我們就只是說你看這個很討厭的就一直給你壓一直給你壓但是我是這樣建議的你像比如說司法院這個地方你統計資料裡面跟地方檢察署你新收的一個偵查案件跟向法院申請羈押的這種情況當中是不是應該分別去統計預防性羈押跟一般的一個羈押的一個比例"},{"start":3509.073,"end":3511.456,"text":"應該是這樣來做一個區分也就是說我們不要說只看到羈壓的數量不斷地去上升沒有辦法去判斷說你是因為你是要逃亡還是要串證這是我們說的比較傳統的理由"},{"start":3525.111,"end":3550.339,"text":"那還是說基於說因為你這個有高度危險性要有社會防衛的一個考量這種預防性的基礎你預防性基礎理論上來講的話是我那時候有高度危險性這些社會防衛的一個考量那未來是不是也能夠增加此類別來精進我們常常說台灣這個形勢的一個司法政策這些你沒有去統計的話你都糊糊的都做錯了以"},{"start":3556.561,"end":3579.689,"text":"一百零一條之一你看那個第一項那個一百刑法一百八十五條之三不能安全駕駛這個這個都會的觀點跟鄉下的觀點又完全不一樣了實務上有時候你在法院裡面你是高高在上你沒有看到實際上我常常舉那個例我在鄉下就碰過很多我跟次長我們兩個正產很正產"},{"start":3585.461,"end":3592.163,"text":"淨產甩了,那個農夫,你怎麼說都不好,他就想到時候就想喝兩杯,他要喝兩杯,他就來土地公廟這裡,手腳這裡,喝喝喝,你警察要的業績,你每天都在這裡想,每天都要抓這幾個,"},{"start":3606.608,"end":3610.849,"text":"這個地方,你看那個統計數字會非常高,可是你說這個是對整個這樣的一個喝酒,我喝完我睡一下,等一下我要田裡面又要工作了,我車還是我摩托車,我不是給你開一大樓,我不是給你騎一大樓,我就是田,鄉間,不像那樣,一條路這樣,不像一百公尺、兩百公尺這樣而已,"},{"start":3630.214,"end":3642.226,"text":"就是廠長會有這種,就跟賭博一樣嘛,就跟賭博就知道說為什麼廠長會講到說我怎麼一抓的話加一加上千歲,有原因,就都七八十歲就要八十五歲,警察覺得很好抓,中抓到有夠好的,全部都抓去派出所,我們常常處理這個"},{"start":3651.343,"end":3659.845,"text":"啊 還在那裡 送一個粗米這樣捏啊 捏下去再捏這個都對整個社會防衛安全都這個都已經是要給它打岔了就是說這個執法的一個方式但問題是 警察要跟你講法律就要這樣規定啊會有這樣的一個問題啊可是我們修法我們立法的意義不在這裡啊不在這裡啊那個部分不是社會討厭的啊"},{"start":3679.637,"end":3691.366,"text":"社會討厭的 矚目的案件是說你喝少了酒 喝喝不完 忙忙處理了沒有失去注意力 造成這樣社會上的一個危險我不知道要怎麼預防性治癒 也是在說這所以呢 你是不是整個183條之三全部這個大家要再考慮一下是不是一定要放 183條放這個叫做社會氛圍啦"},{"start":3707.725,"end":3731.702,"text":"但是你要把全部的整個183條之三裡面全部的項放進去可能也要考慮一下最主要的是我剛提到的部分你預防性積壓一直放寬一直放寬一直放寬我看沒有大家都只是看到統計數字以後就覺得再給它加重"},{"start":3732.335,"end":3754.76,"text":"可是這個我看各政黨裡面,這個部分我比較堅持以外你們那邊也都沒邏輯的啊你們那邊就看你們家裡的,你家裡的,你們就想想看哪個比較邏輯來來預防性質啊但是有一些,我們也覺得很重要的,你也要把它給刪除掉啊所以這個邏輯就有一點錯亂啦,像譬如說談到"},{"start":3757.06,"end":3784.368,"text":"比較政治性的 你覺得國傳證人的部分啊 魅證的部分啊那個涉及到比較個人的 你覺得要刪除這樣就莫名其妙又把它加入一大堆這我就覺得這個邏輯不曉得在什麼地方但至少我會認為說在以後司法官員的統計資料跟那個地方檢察署新收偵查案件跟申請羈押的情況應該是來分別來做統計 預防性羈押跟一般羈押的一個比例這樣才看得出來"},{"start":3787.274,"end":3806.671,"text":"這樣才看得出來說你不斷上來你這些羈押裡面哪些逃亡哪些串證啊預防性羈押我們再一次強調的是說司法院這邊我相信他也是看到各界也是認為這是基於高度的危險性跟社會防衛這樣的一個考量不然就不用預防性羈押就等我發光就好了以上是那請那個司法院對於這個"},{"start":3815.612,"end":3830.123,"text":"不能安全駕駛罪的部分那個謝謝委員那個指導那本院會採納建議就是以後在那個統計上會分別這樣那個預防性羈押和一般羈押來做一個分別的統計讓他呈現實際上那個狀況謝謝委員那如果這樣的話"},{"start":3838.171,"end":3854.46,"text":"好謝謝主席因為我有提案所以我想我還是要說明一下那剛剛確實看了司法院現在提交過來的修正東西確實把我們辦公室關心的關於兒少的部分都放進來了那我還是要強調一下之前質詢的時候我們也有說過以毛俊坤的案子為例其實"},{"start":3857.741,"end":3879.913,"text":"第一件案子其實是111年那直到113年他才被起訴羈押那可是這中間其實後續陸續發生了非常多的事件包含持有兒少性影像800多部照片1600多張那對我們來說如果在這件事情上今天的修法有機會把這個部分放進去我們當然希望就是積極保護兒少的部分可以做得更多"},{"start":3881.273,"end":3896.44,"text":"當然剛剛莊瑞雄委員提的在城鄉差距上導致有不同的修法見解這件事情我們其實還是蠻想聽聽看司法院這邊的意見不過關於耳哨的部分如果大家沒有太多的歧異其實有高度共識我們也希望今天可以順利的通過 謝謝好 那麼既然大家對於司法院所提出的修正動議沒有再更多的意見就大家基本都表示"},{"start":3909.566,"end":3931.165,"text":"贊成他們所提出來的內容所以我們是不是就依照司法院所提出修正動議因為這個後來是由黃國昌委員等三人然後這個協助提出了修正動議所以我們就依照黃國昌委員所提出來的修正動議通過這樣可以嗎"},{"start":3935.011,"end":3957.766,"text":"好那我們就還是在宣讀主席不好意思我確定一下在宣讀之前因為我們剛剛快速對照過其實黃國昌委員的版本其實就是司法院對是的他就是對那當然我們就立法程序上確實是需要委員簽名啦但是我覺得還是要強調一下黃國昌委員剛剛發言完先行離開嘛那但是我們看到他現在拿出來版本其實跟司法院是一模一樣的所以我們還是要感謝司法院這邊的專業建議謝謝好那就請宣讀說真的動議內容"},{"start":3966.218,"end":3984.342,"text":"宣讀第一案修正動議二第101條之一對照憲刑條文處第一項據莫徵定第185條之三不能安全駕駛罪第二款於第272條之殺仔細寫清"},{"start":3991.86,"end":3993.783,"text":"子妻血親遵親屬罪後增戀第272條之一之殺幼童罪"},{"start":4001.141,"end":4029.314,"text":"第278条第一项之重伤最后增列第286条之女孽或妨碍未成年健康发育罪第319条之一之妨碍性影像罪第319条之二之加重妨碍性影像罪第319条之三之功能关难性影像罪第319条之四之制作不实性影像罪"},{"start":4030.294,"end":4053.894,"text":"兒童及少年性剝削法治條例第36條第1項第5項第38條第1項第3項第4項之罪第3款於第302條後增列第302條之一第7款於據墨增訂詐欺犯罪危害法治條例第43條第44條"},{"start":4058.459,"end":4086.624,"text":"第九款與第九款修正為強暴彈藥管刀械管制條例第七條第八條第九條之一第十二條第十三條第十三條之一之罪第十一款原第三十四條修正為第三十二條並增列第十二款為組織犯罪防治條例第三條第一項前段之罪與未修正提案人黃國昌 吳宗憲 翁曉琳宣讀完畢"},{"start":4090.182,"end":4117.653,"text":"好 那麼現在就是《刑事訴訟法》第101條之一我們就依照委員黃國昌等三人所提的修正動議通過好 這沒問題吧好 那我們反而跟你的文字有一點點不太一樣所以他們在決論 你知道他們在決論"},{"start":4122.23,"end":4136.805,"text":"主席等一下我剛剛有先強調因為黃國昌委員抄的版本就是司法院的版本可是我們剛發現他不知道是故意漏抄還是他不想寫到就是那個罪名的部分就是在哪一個第二款請司法院補充一下"},{"start":4137.543,"end":4155.359,"text":"那個就是在第二款的這個部分因為有加進了319-1 319-2 319-3那這個部分因為就是體力上每個除了呈現條號之外還有罪名那這個三個"},{"start":4156.48,"end":4185.347,"text":"對 罪名他沒有呈現出來那整個體力就不太一致對 對 罪名的部分所以就是他那個罪名的部分是不是那司法院的版本是那個那是不是我們可以拿司法院的版本然後在場的委員簽名過其實就可以了 主席主席 我們用上次的做法我們一貫的做法 好不好好 那就請司法院就依照委員的意見然後你去修正條文的修正文字然後請委員簽名之後再以修正動議的方式提出再進行處理"},{"start":4478.472,"end":4486.158,"text":"我剛就說他的版本就是超司法院就那一段漏槽而已啦那一句罪名的部分而已啦是啊 太快了條文是一樣剛剛翁小玲主席已經對過了我們可以請你們你們民眾黨團可以請黃國昌我來補簽名就可以了"},{"start":4503.077,"end":4508.365,"text":"這個部分我們當然是問一下他的想法是什麼如果說他剛助理問一下沒意見就這樣"},{"start":4669.83,"end":4690.606,"text":"主席所以我們現在繼續往下走嗎他們把那個新的修正動議印出來要交付給各個委員之後我們才可以繼續往下走 等他們一下好那我們先請宣讀修正動議三討論事項第一案修正動議三第101條之一主第一項"},{"start":4699.946,"end":4724.053,"text":"除第一項第一款據莫修正為第185條之三不能安全駕駛罪第二款與那個於沙子石系血清遵清罪增訂第272條之一之沙幼童罪並於第278條第一項之重傷罪"},{"start":4727.421,"end":4750.544,"text":"增訂第286條之凌虐或妨礙未成年人健康發育罪第319條之醫治妨礙性影像罪第319條之惡之家中妨礙性影像罪第319條之三之工人困難性影像罪第319條之製作不實性影像罪"},{"start":4751.611,"end":4774.111,"text":"兒童及少年剝削反制條例第三十六條第一項第五至第五項第三十八條第一項至第三項第四項之最於同於同前修正動議二提案人翁曉琳 張瑞雄 陳北宇 吳宗憲 王逸川 請讀完畢"},{"start":4777.321,"end":4803.197,"text":"好 那麼現在就是修正動議三的內容不知道在場各位委員有沒有意見沒有的話 那麼我們就依照修正動議三委員翁曉琳等五人所提出的修正動議但是 對不起我再重新宣告一次101條之一就更正宣告"},{"start":4804.602,"end":4822.571,"text":"就依照修正動議三委員翁曉琳等五人所提的修正動議通過本案逐條均已經處理完畢本席就做以下的宣告"},{"start":4823.697,"end":4849.797,"text":"第一本案審查完據就擬據審查報告提請院會公決第二本案是否需要交黨團協商不需要了那麼本案就不需交由黨團協商那院會討論時就由翁召集委員小林出席說明那麼條次引述條文部分文字及法字用字的用語就授權主席及議事人員來整理"},{"start":4865.049,"end":4886.759,"text":"好沒有問題的話我們接下來就討論事項第二案我們就繼續審查委員翁曉琳等18人拟據的法院組織法第106條條文修正草案那請問在場的委員本案條文只有一條是否要先進行大體討論還是直接進入逐條審查就直接進入逐條審查好好那麼106條"},{"start":4894.329,"end":4903.122,"text":"法院組織法第106條這個由委員翁曉琳等18人提案還有委員吳宗憲等3人所提的修正動議案"},{"start":4906.616,"end":4928.906,"text":"那看現場的吳宗憲委員要不要發言或是提案說明這委員會說明就可以了謝謝主席我想106條的部分我要做一個我有做臨時動議那我希望做一個提案說明那這提案說明主要是因為之前在諮詢檢查總長的時候我們知道有發現一些狀況"},{"start":4930.507,"end":4950.53,"text":"因為我們這次提出的修正動議是希望說甄列被害人也可以申請月覽評議部了解一下評議意見這主要是保障被害人的權益那當然如果說被害人已經死亡的話那被保障的範圍也包括到他的家屬"},{"start":4951.351,"end":4965.557,"text":"那我想因為我之前在質詢的時候我發現這個制度上面有一些失衡因為在憲判八之後其實大法官要求所有的死刑判決必須要法官一致決才可以那這個時候評議部變成唯一能夠證明"},{"start":4966.497,"end":4988.351,"text":"是不是一致決的這個證據那之前我在質詢檢查總長的時候我當時也是問他我們要怎麼去證明一個一致決有沒有符合一致決那總長也是告訴我沒辦法沒有其他的方式只能看評議部那這個部分其實當時我們有提出相關修法那也有一個我後來有看到有一位律師他承認"},{"start":4989.452,"end":5004.265,"text":"承認法官的一位律師他有一點未反對而反對了那就說沒有這個需要他說可以直接傳喚法官來做證人就可以解決但是我們知道實務上面很多案子他的判決可能是在20年前10幾20年前"},{"start":5006.147,"end":5020.56,"text":"法官是不是還在擔任法官那這是一個問題那第二個也有可能一些因病或怎麼樣他的記憶力可能有受損等等再來還有一個很重要的點是一個死刑執行這麼重要的部分"},{"start":5021.638,"end":5047.31,"text":"被告當事人或者是家屬他們有沒有辦法接受說就你傳喚幾個法官來做一個證人上面的證述然後他就可以接受所以我認為說這個當時這個律師其實就是為反對而反對就講一些其實實務上面操作會有很大漏洞的這個說法那總歸的我們認為說"},{"start":5049.212,"end":5053.808,"text":"他的重點還是評議部能不能讓當事人能夠去看能夠去閱覽所以"},{"start":5057.017,"end":5084.163,"text":"這部分我們在這次發現我們這些等待執行的這些人他們有很多案子的評議部都已經銷毀掉了那既然都已經銷毀掉了其實他根本上他可能就會符合非常上述的要件那這個部分其實當年也沒有想到事後會有一個憲判八這個東西出來那這出來之後其實會造成過往實務操作上面的一個很大的問題"},{"start":5086.263,"end":5109.733,"text":"但是我們這個先頒發出來之後我們反而是保障了這些死刑判決確定的這些等待執行的人你主張他有很多程序上面的保障你讓他還有路走讓他有一條活路而且是政府跳下來保障但是被害人這邊卻沒有得到足夠的保障之前我們問了高雄市多獎女教師那個案子"},{"start":5110.473,"end":5135.376,"text":"的被害人就是那個被害人的先生其實當時我們問他那他也希望看看法院是如何評議的可是他去向法院申請越攬評議部的時候法院直接給他回覆的理由是說評議部僅限當事人越攬那僅限當事人越攬這是目前的法律規定這個死者的家屬"},{"start":5136.377,"end":5150.703,"text":"施者的先生请检方协助调阅因为检方是属于当事人之一但是检方又直接跟他回复说本案非实行判决所以没有阅然的必要也就是说"},{"start":5151.403,"end":5175.989,"text":"你公部門你向法院申請法院說你不合規定你向檢方申請檢方認為說檢方是當事人他符合規定但是他告訴你沒有必要那這時候變成是當事人的家屬被害人的家屬他求救無門所以他等於是一整個被我們公部門來去限縮他的權益那我看到的就是被告這些殺人犯"},{"start":5176.869,"end":5193.368,"text":"政府爭先恐後的在維持他們的權益但是這些被害人的家屬的權益卻被公部門無情的直接把他剝奪而且剝奪的理由並不是已經沒有那個評議部了評議部還在但是我檢方就是不幫你處理這個我覺得"},{"start":5196.19,"end":5214.322,"text":"這樣的制度我覺得沒有辦法接受那檢方也許他是說我是依照規定辦案那既然這個規定有這樣的漏洞那我就希望藉由這一次我們把它修回去我相信檢方也是很善意檢方也很想幫忙但是他從規範的角度來看可能他認為說沒有這個必要性"},{"start":5215.463,"end":5234.334,"text":"檢方必須符合這個規範所以我們希望這一次趕快來把它修正檢方不能用一個沒有必要就把人家打回票因為這個人他是死者被害人死者他的家屬他的先生但他想要了解評議部是怎麼評議的卻沒有這個權利那但是呢"},{"start":5235.394,"end":5252.603,"text":"當事人卻可以那我們這次修正其實非常的簡單我們希望說我們的國家早就有被害人權益保障法那法律的明文也是說要保障犯罪被害人還有他的家屬的權益這是我國目前已經存在的法律"},{"start":5254.204,"end":5282.742,"text":"法律裡面也有要求相關機關必須要採取適當的措施來協助訴訟程序然後要保障人性尊嚴要一個非歧視的權益保障我想這個我國在犯罪被害人權益保障法裡面已經有明確了那既然國家都已經把這個被害人權益保障寫到法律裡面就不應該在評議部這個制度上面留下只照顧加害人不照顧被害人的這個破口"},{"start":5283.499,"end":5293.295,"text":"我想這個東西是不公平的那我們這次修正非常的簡單啦既然 既然曾經當過輔佐人的人都可以申請月欄了"},{"start":5294.602,"end":5317.942,"text":"我跟各位再報告一次曾經當作輔佐人的人都可以申請越南的那被害人應該更可以吧這是我這次提這個修正動議的一個重點所以我希望把被害人的定義也寫清楚所以我直接被害人的定義我直接引用我國現行的法律犯罪被害人權益保障法法定的被害人"},{"start":5319.184,"end":5335.32,"text":"為標準就是我希望這次的求證動議就是直接以我國現行的法律的被害人的定義為標準所以當被害人死亡他同法所定的家屬他也是被視為被害人那一樣我們也按照過往的規定"},{"start":5336.061,"end":5361.124,"text":"即便這些家屬可以去看這個評議部也是一樣維持跟以前一樣不得超入攝影或影印這些限制我還是希望把它留存著所以我們可以同時兼顧審判的秘密還有被害人最低限度的資的權利那我的最後最終一句話就是輔佐人都可以了那被害人應該更可以那請各位同仁能夠支持我這次的修正動議 謝謝"},{"start":5365.781,"end":5370.174,"text":"看看司法院有沒有意見對於吳宗憲委員提議的修正文字內容"},{"start":5371.552,"end":5393.408,"text":"謝謝吳委員的修正提案本院是競表贊同的特別委員他有權衡的很多的各種的平衡的他把擴到被害人但是被害人又不是所有的各種犯罪法律被害的被害人他限於"},{"start":5395.77,"end":5412.601,"text":"范保法第3條第2款這邊也就是生命身體性自主權受侵害的人那我本就是本院的非表贊同說這些就是的那個被害人確實呢他們的權益在那個越南"},{"start":5413.52,"end":5424.03,"text":"評議部這邊也要受到保障那本院只有一點就是文字上文字上的一個建議就是說就是體力上因為前面所稱的是案件當事人訴訟代理人辯護人那被害人是不是移到這個地方來因為後面有或成為輔佐人那個地方因為又有一個修飾成為輔佐人所以說是不是就是說"},{"start":5438.483,"end":5463.93,"text":"的辯護人之後呢頓號被害人然後再逗點或不用逗點或成為輔佐人啊是對對對就是講文字您的意思是說案件之當事人送代理辯護人被害人或成為輔佐人嗎啊不是辯護人辯護人案件之當事人輸送代理人辯護人辯護人辯護來留著"},{"start":5467.046,"end":5476.477,"text":"然後頓耗被害人那如果這樣的話應該是被害人應該往前拉吧 案件是當事人被害人輸送代理人辯護人或成為輔助人這樣會不會更順因為他是跟當事人的"},{"start":5486.793,"end":5511.307,"text":"就是被害人跟當事人因為其他的法律體力上當事人 訴訟代理人 辯護人他們通常都是在前面的在前面 對你現在是說把被害人要往前挪挪到成為輔佐人的前面因為成為輔佐人他前面有兩個修飾的詞成為那前面的都是沒有限制就是他是當事人 訴訟代理人辯護人 被害人"},{"start":5513.346,"end":5534.829,"text":"司法院這個我沒有意見 我覺得OK因為他這個整個意識上面不會變那我也附和一下那個司法院的意見其實我當時也是希望不要過於擴張所以我就限於這個第二款的犯罪被害人我也是希望說這個法律修正是對國家有利 不能不利合理啦 合理啦"},{"start":5538.217,"end":5547.863,"text":"是不是就讓吳委員先看一下沒問題的話我們就來簽就是做司法院提出來的文字修正那這樣還要再重簽嗎就改一下那對於就是有關於被害人的定義的部分吳委員這裡提出的修正內容司法院沒有意見嗎同意"},{"start":5568.766,"end":5574.023,"text":"好 可以他先去中文字學"},{"start":5764.291,"end":5789.758,"text":"好請宣讀修正動議討論事項第二案修正動議修正如下第二項前段修正為案件之當事人訴訟代理人辯護人被害人或成為輔佐人其以為修正提案人吳宗憲"},{"start":5791.577,"end":5810.585,"text":"黃國昌 王逸川 莊瑞雄 羅志強 翁曉琳 陳培宇 宣讀完畢好 那麼106條的修正動議1我們就照為吳宗憲委員等7人所提出來的修正動議修正通過"},{"start":5813.817,"end":5841.597,"text":"好 那本案逐條就已經 均已經處理完畢在此作以下宣告本案審查完據擬據審查報告並提起院會公決本案是否需要交黨團協商好 那就不需要交黨團協商院會討論時由翁昭吉委員小林出席說明那麼條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語就授權主席及議事人員整理"},{"start":5844.482,"end":5860.331,"text":"好 那麼今天議程所列的事項都已經處理完畢那今天是本會期最後一支會議我們開會的非常順利所以就到此結束那也謝謝大家 謝謝各位委員還有謝謝在場的這個官員們我們就現在散會 謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"167309","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167309","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88be699e60ff98f9d45ca6c4b86dd6b28f9da39f225449bb573eca6ea80bfd1def5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"09:50:58 - 09:59:47","影片長度":"00:08:49","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「面對全球經貿變局挑戰，如何協輔僑臺商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:50:58+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T09:59:47+08:00","duration":529,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.047843750000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.06471875,"end":2.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.5453437500000002,"end":3.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.805343750000002,"end":144.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.76784375,"end":145.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.17284375,"end":167.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.02159375000002,"end":184.00221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.61534375000002,"end":176.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.02846875,"end":178.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.71596875,"end":179.83409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.95221875000001,"end":180.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.61409375000002,"end":185.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.49159375000002,"end":284.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.86659375000002,"end":188.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.13596875000002,"end":192.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.62534375,"end":192.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.56534375,"end":198.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.59909375,"end":198.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.81846875000002,"end":198.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.31159375000001,"end":202.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.87659375,"end":205.14659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.03534375,"end":215.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.45284375000003,"end":216.92534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.83971875,"end":225.32909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.32909375000003,"end":225.34596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.27409375000002,"end":226.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.44284375,"end":226.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.80534375000002,"end":228.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.15971875000002,"end":229.31159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.14659375000002,"end":232.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.39846875,"end":240.97221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.57034375,"end":248.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.46409375000002,"end":252.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.81784375,"end":257.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.35221875,"end":266.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.44034375,"end":270.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.80659375,"end":274.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.01284375,"end":278.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.02971875000003,"end":278.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.28284375000004,"end":278.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.07971875000004,"end":282.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.99909375000004,"end":375.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.76971875000004,"end":294.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.78659375,"end":294.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.97221875,"end":295.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.98784375,"end":303.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.71096875,"end":320.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.77096875,"end":340.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.73784375,"end":364.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.07909375,"end":367.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.61909375000005,"end":367.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.82846875,"end":378.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.17846875000004,"end":379.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.26284375,"end":379.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.58346875,"end":410.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.05534375,"end":473.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.96534375000005,"end":508.74471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.67784375,"end":477.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.38596875,"end":482.65596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.65596875000006,"end":482.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.96346875,"end":486.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.29659375000006,"end":487.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.58284375000005,"end":491.90346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.01721875000004,"end":493.23659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.38846875,"end":493.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.18971875000005,"end":496.57784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.31159375000004,"end":499.56471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.74971875000006,"end":504.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.25534375,"end":526.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.8772187500001,"end":526.05846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.431,"end":1.616,"text":"謝謝主席 有請這個副委員長 謝謝請副委員長"},{"start":12.654,"end":33.386,"text":"好 你好 那這個現在就是說因為有這個第一個當然是關稅這件事情剛剛前面有蠻多委員問過的那現在又有這個所謂供應鏈的問題這個當然是我們國防部遇到的比較多並不是僑委會那我們現在是希望能夠跟民主同盟有這個以美國為首的這一個非紅供應鏈"},{"start":34.366,"end":53.857,"text":"這跟我們當年的晶片其實也非常類似雖然那個時候並不是跟紅色有什麼太大的關係但的確都是有一些技術上的移轉然後到台灣之後讓我們可以成長茁壯像我們現在比如說我們的無人機等等相關的一些產業其實有很多的零件都來自於中國"},{"start":54.617,"end":67.87,"text":"那這個紅色供應鏈如果我們在裡面的話呢其實會是很大的問題比如說今天我們的敵人就是中國那如果開戰的時候呢這些零件我們無法取得那一個月可能要消耗非常多的無人機等等之類的這個都會形成問題"},{"start":69.062,"end":91.32,"text":"那現在就是說呢因為之前當然第一個關稅剛剛前面比較多人問所以我從這邊來切入就是說因為供應鏈的這一個佈局其實非常的重要那現在其實很多廠商們都在準備那當然有一個比較麻煩的地方是現在我們的這一個國防特別預算到現在是特別條例不要說特別預算了連特別條例都還沒有付尾"},{"start":92.12,"end":113.235,"text":"所以就會變成說我們接下來很多廠商他可能在期待說這整個飛鴻供應鏈到底要怎麼做但其實我們這個相關的這個條例還沒通過不過我覺得以經濟部的立場來講現在已經都已經開始準備在鼓勵廠商不管是雙用不管是要加入到這個產業然後增加工作機會這大概是我們現在政府的立場"},{"start":113.942,"end":130.025,"text":"那我們還是有另外一塊是跟喬委會有關的就是我們的喬台商喬台商現在這樣的一個供應鏈的這個分流佈局就我所知他們很多他們可能現在是在東南亞雖然他也有廠在台灣但有很多廠他是在東南亞"},{"start":130.766,"end":150.915,"text":"我們就是之前有遇到就是有問到這一個前面的這一個信用保證基金我們也有問說目前這一個有做這個保證的這個額數好像從去年到現在我看這一個是有六件六件可不可以稍微說明一下當然有六件那不是壞事的確是有但是總覺得六件好像還不夠多"},{"start":152.823,"end":167.419,"text":"當然這跟我們自己現在國內的立場尤其在立法院這邊是搖擺不定的可能會有一定的關係然後關稅也才剛定下來但是就是這方面的這六件還有以及未來的展望是不是能夠更多是否可以跟國人報告一下"},{"start":168.741,"end":183.633,"text":"謝謝 謝謝委員的關心我們海外信保基金從去年九月開辦就是美國對等關稅專案這個專案從去年九月底開始到一月二十三號為止是六件那這六件呢其實申請人都是來自越南都是越南的"},{"start":184.594,"end":196.678,"text":"都是越南的那產業類別包含紡織金屬製品製造機械製造以及成衣等等所以就是如同委員剛剛說的其實我們的台商遍佈全球但產業類別都不一樣那在東南亞的其實還是以比較偏傳統而且中小的這個產業類別為主那當然他們都很希望能夠升級所以我們在這個橋尾會"},{"start":209.802,"end":219.946,"text":"輔導台商回來的研訓班當中我們其實都加入了從去年開始加入了航太加入了一些安控然後一些AI還有一些這個循環經濟數位轉型等等這樣的主題那其實都很受到這個東南亞東協國家這些台商們的歡迎"},{"start":226.688,"end":230.971,"text":"他們也覺得符合他們的需求那在費用供應鏈的部分我想商機非常的多那台商的腳步跟頭腦其實都是動得很快的他們也都非常的靈敏但是政府的政策要怎麼樣明確的給他們僑委會作為一個橋樑的角色如果我們有明確的譬如說預算過了或者是說我們這個政策"},{"start":250.444,"end":278.079,"text":"已經法令整個下來了那當然整個帶動整個台商這個我們責無旁貸我們一定是在第一時間用我們的平台那把最正確的訊息傳達給所有感興趣的橋台商那大家這個共同來加入飛鴻供應鏈那我想很多橋台商其實心裡已經有標的了啦他們大概知道說自己現在目前做的產業要升級可以去對應到飛鴻供應鏈的哪一塊哪一個部分甚至一些預先的準備工作都已經做好了"},{"start":278.379,"end":294.877,"text":"那现在就等待说最后那个时机timing最适合的时候大家可以一起来启动或许这样力量会最大对因为我现在这样听起来就是说呢当然我们的信用保证基金很多是要协助可能跟一些关税啊等等有关的所以你看刚刚讲到的越南为主的它都是以船厂为主对"},{"start":295.617,"end":318.466,"text":"這塊當然很重要因為這一次我們能夠談到這一個15%因為我們傳產最主要不是說到底過去幾%而是我們要跟別的國家做比較我們有些可能是跟荷蘭競爭有些可能是跟東南亞的國家競爭有些可能是跟印度都有可能在這個競爭之下這個15%現在對我們來講是有一定的競爭力但是在這一個之前因為畢竟現在還有剩下有大概1000個清單還要簽"},{"start":319.947,"end":337.633,"text":"所以這邊還是有很多不確定性所以我覺得保護傳產這當然是重要的一件但另外一個就是剛剛講的就是我們輔導的部分當然剛剛有提到AI嘛跟我們的科技有關但另外一塊可能就是我們的飛虹供應鏈因為這也是我們現在政府我覺得蠻著重的一點就是今天因為有些它在它是不是屬於傳產"},{"start":338.513,"end":366.959,"text":"但是它也沒有在做AI相關的這個時候其實在這一塊裡面很多是跟軍工有關的它可以雙用的它都能夠進入飛鴻供應鏈飛鴻供應鏈不是只有台灣飛鴻供應鏈其實在歐洲因為歐洲現在整個軍備也提高所以在提高的狀況之下飛鴻供應鏈對他們來說很重要我知道我們之前在看到有一些是在立陶宛的台商捷克的台商其實有在往這個方向努力我也知道委員長都有在跑這些地方所以就是希望這個能夠逐步推進我覺得這是重要的好 謝謝委員長"},{"start":367.779,"end":374.982,"text":"那另外一個就是我這個要這個問可能有點來不及因為時間的關係但我想先我請一下這一個我們的衛福部的次長謝謝請次長"},{"start":379.042,"end":392.716,"text":"主委好好 謝謝我前面本來是要先要問喬因為喬委會之前都有在推廣一些就是這個全世界各地的這些比如說緊急救助這一個就是我們的這一個社會防衛任性因為我們一直以來說社會防衛任性是在講我們國內但是喬委會他還針對我們的僑民來做這整體的規劃我覺得這非常重要"},{"start":399.102,"end":409.167,"text":"因為他們也是會飛來飛去的然後他們在國外怎麼貢獻跟在國內怎麼貢獻這個重要這個我剛剛來不及問但我裡面有一個小問題就是因為我最近在看日本的這一個這一個就是它的這一個液態的配方奶"},{"start":415.331,"end":429.764,"text":"它比較昂貴大概就是這個價格可能要三倍因為小孩子他要沖泡奶粉等等還需要熱水這一個程序也比較長這一個液態的配方奶它非常的快速"},{"start":430.905,"end":458.501,"text":"它快速是一件事情那後來呢就是日本在這個2016年熊本地震的時候芬蘭捐了不少類似這種液態奶然後到2018年之後日本就覺得說這個在防災搞不好特別的重要因為防災像我們剛剛講的你可能就是身邊沒有那麼多設備但這個是嬰兒嬰幼兒可以吃的但我後來去了解一下我們台灣的這一個法規啊等等之類的就是你要得到這方面的販售的許可啊等等之類目前來講還算是這個是非常嚴格"},{"start":460.183,"end":473.118,"text":"當然我認為嚴格是對的因為我們什麼事情政府都應該要把關但是如果從防災的立場來講這個對台灣也有一定的重要性所以我覺得這是滿未來的事情但想問衛福部對於這件事情未來有沒有什麼想像跟規劃"},{"start":474.72,"end":492.872,"text":"對於省委員這邊問的那的確這看起來是對於我們防災應該是有一些需要啦所以我回去會請食藥署針對這個來研議另外一個是說如果緊急需要的話那在沒有通過之前是可以緊急進口這也是一個可以做的啦"},{"start":494.073,"end":498.656,"text":"但是為了要比較長遠的一個部分我們會請食藥署針對這個議題來演繹看是不是也邀請這個廠商也要送件送件來我們才有辦法去做後續的一個讓他認證"},{"start":508.682,"end":524.266,"text":"因為我現在看到很多應該都是國外的一些廠商但是我總覺得這個對我們的未來應該算是蠻重要的所以未來的話如果可以的話我們再跟衛福部跟食藥署來討論一下這件事情這對我們的房災應該會有這個又都是在以海外為主或許僑委會也可以有一定的角色謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167308","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167308","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a8857c1ad825bc0f9f352fd623850d83d5bba72e0f898bedb443dda3dec39bdc3285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:40:06 - 09:53:16","影片長度":"00:13:10","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:40:06+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T09:53:16+08:00","duration":790,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.78596875,"end":4.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.755968750000001,"end":5.498468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.075968750000001,"end":9.700343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.93659375,"end":15.134093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.31971875,"end":22.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.609718750000003,"end":29.629718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.882843750000003,"end":34.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.04659375,"end":39.299093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.43409375,"end":51.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.99784375,"end":50.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.875343750000006,"end":51.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.938468750000006,"end":59.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.970968750000004,"end":70.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.72034375,"end":81.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.11534375000001,"end":87.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.42659375000001,"end":99.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.37409375,"end":122.23971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.24659375,"end":105.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.67971875,"end":114.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.55596875,"end":141.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.62346875,"end":124.06221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.77096875000001,"end":125.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.06346875,"end":166.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.56909375,"end":149.44221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.10659375,"end":165.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.62096875,"end":169.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.80659375000002,"end":166.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.61221875,"end":177.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.82721875000001,"end":170.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.61534375000002,"end":175.69971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.75034375,"end":175.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.55596875,"end":208.87596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.25721875000002,"end":199.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.56784375,"end":211.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.05284375000002,"end":252.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.67159375000003,"end":220.77284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.84034375000002,"end":221.16096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.35034375,"end":251.94096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.02534375000002,"end":256.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.00346875,"end":288.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.79846875000004,"end":272.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.99409375,"end":297.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.22909375,"end":302.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.59971875,"end":309.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.87284375,"end":310.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.71659375,"end":316.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.97721875,"end":358.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.20096875,"end":344.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.25346875,"end":393.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.17721875,"end":360.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.91471875,"end":366.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.63971875000004,"end":370.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.09471875,"end":375.14534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.08596875,"end":377.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.69096875,"end":407.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.83346875,"end":400.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.89971875000003,"end":428.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.48284375000003,"end":457.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.54471875,"end":438.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.76409375000003,"end":438.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.62784375,"end":446.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.86659375000005,"end":486.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.21034375000005,"end":472.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.83409375,"end":476.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.98596875000004,"end":477.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.62159375000005,"end":488.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.08534375000005,"end":506.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.10596875000005,"end":492.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.37596875,"end":492.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.75346875,"end":507.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.68159375000005,"end":544.8740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.1272187500001,"end":560.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.4834687499999,"end":567.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.82409375,"end":586.6397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.9140937500001,"end":620.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.1103437500001,"end":599.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.6597187500001,"end":638.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.94784375,"end":646.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.0859687500001,"end":650.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.79846875,"end":658.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.0672187499999,"end":663.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.61096875,"end":662.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.06659375,"end":663.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.31971875,"end":664.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.9734687499999,"end":681.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.2409687500001,"end":709.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.05096875,"end":713.1684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.2490937500002,"end":711.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.3628437500001,"end":718.5009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.5009687500001,"end":751.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.66909375,"end":722.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":725.9597187500001,"end":725.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.21284375,"end":726.2465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.20284375,"end":736.2703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":738.97034375,"end":738.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.3078437500001,"end":739.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":742.0078437500001,"end":742.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.1172187500001,"end":744.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.25596875,"end":747.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":752.04846875,"end":762.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.25846875,"end":758.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.2922187500001,"end":758.3090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.4272187500001,"end":758.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.76409375,"end":779.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":776.9897187500001,"end":781.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":781.2590937500001,"end":782.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.01846875,"end":782.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.71034375,"end":784.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":785.93346875,"end":789.88221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.065,"end":5.323,"text":"主席麻烦我们的时部长请时部长"},{"start":11.19,"end":34.515,"text":"今天事實上是本會期的最後一次質詢部長那總共有三個問題要請教首先是關於我們的那個春節的醫療的一個問題也就是部長應該知道過去我一直在強調急診要解決擁塞必須要分流首先要感謝你願意去做採納設置我們的假日及國定假日"},{"start":35.135,"end":59.15,"text":"清急症中心我肯認這個政策方向也因為分流能降低急診跟第一線的負擔不過上週也跟你一起有到桃園的UCC視察的時候你有提到春節會有醫護人員的加成補助方案那我必須替第一線的我們的醫護人員來問清楚一件事情春節加成補助方案有幾成會給第一線的醫護人員"},{"start":60.217,"end":80.624,"text":"這次我們在公告我們1月23號已經正式公告這個這個獎勵方案那上面已經明訂這個八成要發給出勤的相關人員那部長你就是在想問那這筆錢實際上會怎麼發放還是直接進到第一線的醫護人員的口袋裡還是先撥給醫院再由醫院自行處理"},{"start":81.538,"end":100.877,"text":"還是由醫院去分配啦但是八成一定是給相關的出勤人員為什麼我要問這個問題因為我最近接獲非常多醫護人員的反應跟陳情發現衛福部過去推很多獎勵計畫要獎勵我們的醫護人員可是加班還是不管是加班還是上夜班後"},{"start":101.604,"end":115.479,"text":"去發現那個錢 遲遲事實上是沒有下來的這是醫院內部他們給我的一個資料也就很明確跟部長講你一定知道夜班護理人員直接獎勵計畫這個計畫就是衛福部先把錢給醫院然後再由醫院分配結果醫護人員遲遲拿不到錢現在是幾月了"},{"start":125.483,"end":140.782,"text":"那去年的 再來講去年的錢是不是去年有護理師跟我講說 去年6月上夜班按你們的規定8月就要發啦可是到現在他都還沒有領到那部長你知道這個狀況嗎 其他醫院有沒有一樣的狀況 你如何去解決"},{"start":143.483,"end":166.076,"text":"因為我們有一些作業跟審查的落差所以大概是兩個月的落差兩個月的落差現在是幾月因為我們有一個叫做通報平台如果有這個狀況是可以通報的那麼到目前我問了一下我們同仁好像沒有說到6月到現在還沒有發的信息你是不是再把"},{"start":166.736,"end":193.665,"text":"再把這個資料給我們再來細查一下所以我要向部長確定這次春節補助和過去的防疫津貼的執行問題高度相似從第一線人員照冊院內合張到必須等健保署撥款後才能發放再加上牽扯到健保點數的轉換這部分院方都未必能清楚對外說明要如何確保這些春節願意上班的護理師能夠領到春節補助我覺得這非常重要"},{"start":194.11,"end":208.531,"text":"我上次才質詢社工一樣一月到現在沒有去領到他們該有的錢那一樣如果醫護人員也是這樣那我覺得中央真的在督促地方或是都督促你們要執行的方案裡面真的要確保他們"},{"start":209.659,"end":235.911,"text":"要給的要給這個跟委員報告這一個款項我們是用專款特別去自印所以它沒有點值的問題它就是1.1塊錢而且這個是健保的給付規定如果沒有按照這樣那麼會有健保特管法的罰款規定那同時也可能會如果該給而沒有給那醫院也有可能會涉及到侵佔公"},{"start":236.671,"end":258.416,"text":"的形式問題所以這個問題很嚴重的所以這個我想多數的醫院都清楚啦那麼如果有少數的情形我們一定會嚴查所以再請這個委員放心那如果有相關的訊息就我覺得機制要做好來如果有醫護人員他畢竟還在那邊上班他們是不是有壓力那如果他今天出來"},{"start":259.516,"end":288.416,"text":"告訴你這件事情可是這本來就不是正常的程序上因為兩個月你要給我錢加班費再怎麼樣當個月就要給了結果你兩個月沒給以外讓你們有些核算時間結果你事實上是五個月六個月都還沒有給所以我在這邊有提出三個比較具體務實的建議請部長也正面回憶一個月可不可以交也就是說清查各縣市醫院是否能有津貼遲未發的狀況所以你們要主動清查不是叫醫護人員來跟你講然後最後呢他就是會有他的困難"},{"start":290.237,"end":313.366,"text":"為什麼因為他如果一旦涉入到那很容易大家知道是誰嘛那第二個就是評估是不是能改成看看能不能直接匯到第一線的醫事人員的帳戶這你們評估看看第三個醫院在收到補助的時候一定要在第一線期限內發給第一線的醫事人員然後有沒有可以建置一個查核跟"},{"start":313.973,"end":336.765,"text":"我覺得處罰機制跟我們報告 這清查我們可以來清查那因為這個補助款我們來要求一定的時間因為我們進去的時間大概會有兩個月的落差然後醫院他也有發放這個薪資入帳的時間的落差那過去我們這個通報平台也有收過幾件那我們就會去了解"},{"start":337.225,"end":366.168,"text":"那有些是他的行政作業上的務司或承辦人員那個情有可原的都是OK但是如果因為我們那個通報平台不一定要具名的所以只要告訴我們可能是在哪些醫院我們就會去查那全面性的清查我想這個我們會來要求還是麻煩部長先因為為什麼當初這政策良善美意要做一些獎勵可是不要讓第一線的人工作人員"},{"start":366.809,"end":380.434,"text":"辛苦之後他得到的是口號而不是準時可以拿到你確實該拿的補助因為我覺得春節也快到了我相信補職長的心情跟我們一樣就是會希望在以來願意付出的人能夠獲得該有的照顧"},{"start":382.355,"end":407.454,"text":"那另外一个就是部长我觉得我们说要打造友善的生养环境可是现在很多家长面临的是有钱却找不到保姆为什么根据最新的统计近三年全国的保姆平均离职率大概是7%但加入率只有6所以差了1%所以等于每一年的人力流失是1%的部长你知道这个代表什么吗如果流失的速度不变的话五年后全国在宅的"},{"start":408.034,"end":428.188,"text":"保姆將跌破兩萬人而且在六都的狀況更嚴重台北市大概流失率是11%那台南呢高達14%部長照這個速度的話台北台南的居家托育服務十年內可能就是瀕臨消失了那衛福部到底有沒有規劃具體的政策來解決我們居家人員人數流失的問題"},{"start":429.677,"end":457.521,"text":"跟委員說明一下我們目前的數字上來看去年的這個托育人力居家托育人力大概兩萬八那前一年大概是兩萬七千九所以大概是為此平盤但是您這邊提出的是縣市的差別我們整個數字看起來並沒有減少但是可能有縣市的差異所以我們會再進一步的進行比較細部的分析你相對應的政策"},{"start":457.901,"end":485.798,"text":"部長為什麼這樣提我們已經設定了政策目標要在2029年家外送托率要提升到36.9%部長目前托育供給的缺口還缺53916名的幼兒的那個托育名額換句話說如果要打標至少需要13500名的一個保姆部長要問你就是說再人力持續如果是流失甚至有所謂的都市跟像"},{"start":486.698,"end":506.22,"text":"不均等的狀況底下這一萬三千五百名的那個保姆到底要從哪裡來因為我們的托育托法已經草案已經訂定了政府也要嚴定政策充實托育人力部長如果沒有穩定的人力的供給的話你這個政策大概是沒辦法來做一個落實所以"},{"start":507.742,"end":534.461,"text":"我就直接問一個比較關鍵的問題照顧是不分老幼的為什麼政策不應該分那目前勞動部就有個缺工就業獎勵計畫已經納入長照服務員但同樣嚴重缺工同樣也攸關國內的居家托育人員的卻被排除在外那你就聽會說那是勞動部啊那我因為我問過勞動部這個還是要衛福部因為保姆人員事實上是掌握在衛福部所以如果要"},{"start":535.408,"end":559.86,"text":"只住這種人力缺失的話每年只需要吸引額外2380名的新進保姆在預算上大概以每人10萬8千的獎勵金的計劃的話一年約2.5億元就能做到部長你認為這個金額真的不可行嗎衛福部願不願意來會同勞動部將居家托育人員納入缺工就業獎勵計劃以前是民間在做波瓦努基金會他們在做"},{"start":560.58,"end":567.499,"text":"那可是現在我覺得這應該事實上如果長照有做勞動部也有那是不是政府這邊也要自己來做這件事情"},{"start":568.664,"end":591.112,"text":"有關於這個外託我們在這個新年的預算本來也有在要持續的增加這個公托的點我們還是會持續去增加人力的部分我們謝謝委員給我們這個這個建議的方向我們來找勞動部研究一下因為你剛剛講的是當然托嬰中心是一個方向可是畢竟機構式的和"},{"start":592.632,"end":621.516,"text":"希望家庭式的不太一樣那最後就要問身障朋友有沒有有權有看醫生的權利我們上週剛把身權法送出委員會今天就來請教部長關於身障朋友醫療可進行的問題首先本來身權法24條就有規定了主管機關一定規模的醫院應該要設立特別門診給予身障者那衛福部醫師司也因為因此而被授權訂定說身心障礙者特別門診管理辦法要求要設立特別門診"},{"start":622.496,"end":645.143,"text":"這是給予身障朋友醫療禁用權的一個很好的管道身障朋友也認為這個幫助非常的大那我們就來看這個辦法來看特別門診有什麼科就關於辦法第三條指出說應設置獨立的牙科跟發展磁碗特別門診上上週就有我們身心障的夥伴來拜會我們這邊他問的問題就是說"},{"start":647.13,"end":662.599,"text":"我也想生育小孩可是我看婦產科就已經相對好麻煩所以我第二個問題說為什麼這麼多科別裡邊只有牙科跟發展此外特別門診其他科沒有考量的是什麼你們有針對身心障礙的需求進行過調查他們需要的醫療是什麼"},{"start":665.12,"end":677.924,"text":"這個辦法這個特別門診的這個設置辦法多年前我在處長的時候訂的 是真的很多年沒有修啦當時候因為沒有提出來那現在有這個需求我們來修把這個這個這個"},{"start":681.405,"end":706.779,"text":"孕產婦的門診把它納入那另外呢像剛剛提到我們有身心障礙的牙科的門診因為當時候的這個需求有提出來我們就把它設進去後來也搭配了那個健保會有這個診察費的加成所以它會有一些先設置的條件然後後端會搭配這個己婦上的加成"},{"start":707.279,"end":721.386,"text":"那這個部分我想我們所以可不可以先調查看看因為法規的部分是1410那麼給付的部分健保會來一起一併的考量因為我自己身為女性非常深知生育的艱難"},{"start":722.686,"end":735.497,"text":"如果躺在生殘手術台上連翻身都困難那工作一陣比一陣痛的時候生完還沒有力氣做起來就忍著傷口的疼痛每一天都要這樣撐過去我們尚且如此那身障朋友呢他們告訴我說他們光是從量體重的地方到驗超音波的診間就十分困難跑殘檢就像在打怪一樣所以衛生部110年做的全國的身障調查"},{"start":748.128,"end":771.58,"text":"18歲以上的障礙者就已經超過七成都有生養子女那這代表生長者也非常渴望有家庭可是卻沒有友善無障礙的婦產科環境所以這些都是會讓想生育的生長朋友呢最後呢就是卻步所以更何況婦產科不是只有管生小孩其他的有關泌尿科這些疾病都需要婦產科所以婦產科會在特別門診裡加婦產科讓生長婦女有基本的"},{"start":775.495,"end":788.409,"text":"婦產科看診的一個權益而且一個月內可不可以提出評估報告我們來修這個指定辦法好 謝謝部長謝謝委員的指見好 謝謝林月琴委員發言接下來請陳金輝委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167313","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167313","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a8878f7f7a1834baf835ca6c4b86dd6b28f9da39f225449bb57058d39ead7a38cca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"10:11:50 - 10:23:04","影片長度":"00:11:14","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「面對全球經貿變局挑戰，如何協輔僑臺商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:11:50+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:23:04+08:00","duration":674,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.14909375000000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.14909375000000002,"end":2.0222187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.41034375,"end":3.5578437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.379718750000002,"end":22.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.66659375,"end":10.392218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.058468750000003,"end":13.817843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.21721875,"end":27.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.520343750000002,"end":36.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.43034375,"end":43.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.720343750000005,"end":60.173468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.31659375,"end":87.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.08471875000001,"end":88.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.18596875,"end":119.64096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.74221875,"end":123.64034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.75846875,"end":137.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.95034375,"end":249.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.32096875000002,"end":169.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.51284375,"end":210.56346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.58034375000003,"end":210.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.03846875000002,"end":249.37596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.64596875,"end":249.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.33784375000002,"end":250.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.35471875000002,"end":368.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.64034375,"end":259.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.10409375,"end":421.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.33221875000004,"end":428.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.94284375,"end":439.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.42221875,"end":556.2647187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.85534375,"end":595.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.3259687500001,"end":597.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.04721875,"end":637.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.9397187500001,"end":673.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.31846875,"end":673.9678437500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.249,"end":3.511,"text":"謝謝主席 邀請李副委員長請副委員長副委員好第一次登板國防外交委員會謝謝委員但是我問的問題其實不算是新的題目喔因為去年差不多這個時間點我也詢問過徐嘉欣徐委員長那就是一旦我們這個來到了新春的時節其實也就是"},{"start":27.648,"end":45.076,"text":"我們的僑委會跟中國的這個對外的統戰部門的一個主力戰場喔去年我曾經有詢問過就是在他們的所謂春節大外宣的過程當中會有一個春節暖心包的贈送那麼今年是不是又開始發送"},{"start":46.337,"end":59.426,"text":"那麼今年的內容我們有沒有收到其他在海外橋接朋友的訊息他們的這個所謂春節暖心春暖心包喔大概內容有哪些那麼這些內容有精進嗎"},{"start":62.295,"end":65.498,"text":"謝謝謝謝委員的關心那委員長期很關心我們海外的僑團在這個第一線遇到的中國統戰跟滲透的威脅那確實我們的統戰中國的統戰大外宣是無時無刻不在那也跟委員報告其實不只是農曆春節期間他們全年都會利用一些特殊的時刻來做這些統戰的滲透"},{"start":84.674,"end":105.165,"text":"所以我們在第一線的橋界其實對於這個全防衛的這個韌性的因應還有這個平常的認知作戰的一些這個相關的概念的準備都是非常非常重要的那也跟委員報告其實依照我們最近接受到的這個橋情其實在非洲還有我們的北美"},{"start":105.785,"end":110.267,"text":"以及這個北美的媒體其實中領館還有這個相關的這個中國的住館都已經有一些干擾或者是一些威脅的動作就是希望我們的這些在我們的這個僑團在這個過年期間或是重大節日的時候呢他們都透過滲透騷擾或者是一些不理性的行為希望我們不要派我們的"},{"start":133.757,"end":136.338,"text":"住處的長官來出席活動那利用這樣子來打壓我們的士氣好 因為就像您剛剛所說的在非洲北美相關的這些就是外館其實現在中國確實大外宣或者是滲透或者是施壓我想海外不論是我們的外交部的外館住館"},{"start":154.844,"end":160.985,"text":"又或者是包括僑委會在內其實都可以感受得到他們的這種所謂步步逼近的脅迫是越來越強而且他們不只是花錢用錢的方式去買人心甚至於他會買選票中國會介入選舉的過程當中其實這個例子已經非常多了包括本席也找出在2025年的報導就是2023年蔡英文總統過境紐約的時候當時"},{"start":182.29,"end":186.552,"text":"時任這個周參議員的曲怡文就因為出席了我們的橋宴隔年他就直接讓他的支持者全體轉向讓他落選就像你講的也會希望我們的橋宴變得冷冷清清喔那在這個部分我們接下來面對中國的步步逼近尤其是新春期間因為現在距離過年其實剩下幾個禮拜那麼在這邊我們橋委會跟外交部有做好一些因應的方式嗎"},{"start":210.401,"end":219.832,"text":"因為我稍微查了一下喔其實我們來到2026年啦雖然說現在總預算也還沒有審但是我先看一下就是你們在橋界辦多元活動有1725萬但是對比喔如果拆分下來到我們這麼多個外館其實說實話要拚錢我們拚不贏"},{"start":229.463,"end":240.867,"text":"那麼你剛剛提到的包括加強所謂的防衛韌性加強訊息的揭露但是除此之外我們有沒有想到更好的方式甚至於在邀請的過程中現在有沒有面臨什麼樣的困難除了剛剛你提到的非洲北美被施壓要求選邊站之外"},{"start":250.407,"end":253.649,"text":"謝謝委員的關心那跟委員補充報告一下這個有關於暖心包的僑情我們目前是還沒有聽到今年有這樣的消息但是這並不代表沒有因為暖心包可能是這個一個活動而已那我們覺得我們也要做這樣的準備"},{"start":268.058,"end":290.034,"text":"就是中國的滲透是剛剛提到無所不在的而且無時無刻都會有所以今年也要因應可能會有的一些新的動作或者是他們有一些新的伎倆新的把戲之類的那剛剛跟委員報告的就是說我們要加強的部分除了全社會防衛任性之外其實全社會防衛任性去年在這個圓山飯店的僑委會的辦理的時候我們把全世界的僑委員召回來"},{"start":293.857,"end":297.598,"text":"然後我們模擬這個全社會防衛任性用這個來做主題那我們來分組來讓所有的僑委員進行討論讓他們沙盤推演遇到一些認知作戰攻擊或滲透的時候應該採取什麼樣的因應那也加強所有的僑團的垂直跟橫向的聯繫那我覺得這部分是平常要做而且是刻不容緩的事情那因為這個事情去年的僑務委員會做了之後很多僑委員都覺得認同覺得成果不錯"},{"start":321.787,"end":324.59,"text":"所以這樣子的全社會防衛任性的座談跟這個小局書的推廣現在他們已經回到了僑居國那分別在美國的休斯頓然後我知道還有一些好像好幾個地方都已經陸陸續續的開始在僑居地他們辦理全社會防衛任性的座談跟推廣"},{"start":339.346,"end":367.939,"text":"那這個目的呢就是要加強我們所有的橋台商跟橋民們這樣子的防衛任性的概念也就是說平常我們要做好心理準備不管是心理的武裝還是知識上的武裝都非常的有必要那同時呢我們在今年呢也會再增加譬如說我們的海華基金會會在僑生這個回國的時候呢辦理這個校際交流跟提升僑生的防衛意識工作坊那在緊急救難協助的部分還有這個"},{"start":369.159,"end":380.708,"text":"那個全社會防衛任性的部分都加強的來補充還有在海外商會的幹部培訓的部分我們也會規劃全社會防衛任性的相關演練那也就是說全社會防衛任性是我們政策性的要去這個重點推廣的部分"},{"start":385.171,"end":389.575,"text":"我們希望藉由這樣子的一個講座還有一個這個有系統的把訊息傳播出去讓所有的僑團僑商還有這個僑生僑教界都能夠認知到中國認知作戰的威脅那對於這個假訊息還有對於這個網路駭客還有一些這個AI的生物技術這些新興科技因為他們需要隨時更新新的資訊現在新的伎倆實在是太多了那"},{"start":411.154,"end":427.291,"text":"先建立這樣子的心理武裝之後那隨時有訊息的時候我們也透過這樣的網路把最新中國可能的統戰方式及時的告知他們讓海外的第一線的這個僑情的接收能夠更順暢那他們有知道有這樣的意識之後就能夠有提防然後比較快的能夠來做因應"},{"start":428.973,"end":442.244,"text":"好 其實我就是希望全社會防衛任性它不是只是一個名詞而是我們能夠具體的有步驟然後包括連在海外的橋台商包括我們的橋屋委員 橋屋諮詢委員其實都能夠納入這個整合的這個系統當中"},{"start":447.168,"end":453.691,"text":"另外一個我要關心的當然就是剛剛王定宇委員特別提到就是我們現在能夠談下這個台美的關稅15%的這個部分我相信對於很多我們的中小企業跟產業都非常的重要那麼對於台積電對外的投資的部分當然不是只有美國2024年的時候我特別帶了訪問團到德勒斯登去喔那麼"},{"start":472.258,"end":477.222,"text":"他們德國包括最近來訪的德國國會議員也都非常關注德勒斯登的這一個所謂擴廠的計畫那麼我要強調的是我們現在在德國我查了一下我們僑務委員有3人僑務諮詢委員19人僑務顧問14人僑務促進委員是26人總計有62個人"},{"start":495.655,"end":523.302,"text":"但是我們的僑務秘書目前就是只有在法蘭克福跟柏林對不對但是其實你看一下這個地圖就知道其實德國非常的大我記得我當時從柏林我們一路坐車過去大概要坐個半天那麼言下之意就是當我們德勒斯登在進行建廠之後會有非常多的工程師及他的家眷包括他的家人他的小孩會到這裡來所以我要提醒的是"},{"start":524.462,"end":539.81,"text":"現在如果以我們做的人力部署包括我們橋外協助所謂的支援的這樣的人力上面是不是需要做一些調整比如說你現在在柏林或者是在法蘭克福只有"},{"start":540.47,"end":554.95,"text":"各一位僑務秘書那一旦有事情發生的時候該怎麼樣做連結包括我們在現場其實當時我們去訪問的時候有非常多已經在德國發展我們的僑台商朋友也都到德勒斯登了那麼我"},{"start":556.912,"end":575.091,"text":"教育會有教育部協助醫療相關的今天像衛福部其實也有派代表來這都沒有問題但是在服務橋台商的部分在這裡橋委會有沒有一個新的更多更精進而且協助來配合德勒斯登因為我們當然知道日本熊本也有但是因為日本真的離台灣近發生什麼事情一個飛機票幾個小時就回來"},{"start":579.776,"end":595.285,"text":"那麼美國的話因為我們前進美國的橋台商多大家協助的方式可能會更緊密但是歐洲尤其是德國確實連橋台商都比較少那在這個部分我提醒橋委會是不是可以有更多的思考"},{"start":596.625,"end":601.991,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝委員對僑務這麼深入的了解跟關心那確實因為我們預算跟人力有限所以我們的僑務秘書其實不只是德勒斯登很多地方其實都在叫人數就是人不夠人力不夠那包括現在我們在亞利桑那其實也是沒有僑務秘書"},{"start":613.422,"end":625.473,"text":"那我們在日本熊本其實也沒有只有這個駐地的辦公室當然是外交不兼的所以其實只要這個行政院可以或者是大院願意給我們更多的預算我們很願意做事情那這個新的趨勢新的移民現在這個氣候移民潮正在形成當中僑委會會隨時配合這個台灣的往外移的僑民的需要來做這個人力的重新部署"},{"start":637.984,"end":646.167,"text":"那就像您所說的不論是熊本或者是亞利桑那或是德勒斯登因為現在就是我們有即將就是這個廠要營運之後工程師及家眷會進去那麼現在事實這個狀況已經發生了我也建議僑委會是不是會後可以給我們一份評估報告那包括其實現在人力有限也不太可能馬上就讓行政院打開人力或者是資源的部分怎麼樣跟其他的部會做橫向的整合"},{"start":665.856,"end":669.024,"text":"以及人力的配置上面是不是可以有一個進一步的相關的研究或了解交給本會跟本席好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167310","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167310","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88a79b5f0d78716b2d52fd623850d83d5b9da39f225449bb57dc3fb96d4c95e3195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:53:22 - 10:08:31","影片長度":"00:15:09","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:53:22+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:08:31+08:00","duration":909,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.14909375000000002,"end":3.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.18659375,"end":3.6253437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.14409375,"end":6.443468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.755343750000002,"end":9.430343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.341593750000001,"end":20.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.15846875,"end":24.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.10721875,"end":32.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.16596875,"end":27.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.19471875,"end":32.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.51534375,"end":55.212218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.658468750000004,"end":34.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.549718750000004,"end":69.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.45909375000001,"end":70.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.09159375,"end":72.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.40784375,"end":75.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.31471875000001,"end":74.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.02346875,"end":129.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.13721875000002,"end":158.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.71971875,"end":155.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.49971875,"end":172.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.13096875000002,"end":174.31596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.18534375000002,"end":174.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.97409375,"end":178.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.99909375000001,"end":177.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.11284375000002,"end":195.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.10159375,"end":225.75096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.97034375,"end":227.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.31596875000002,"end":241.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.17096875000001,"end":238.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.02284375000002,"end":305.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.01596875,"end":287.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.96909375,"end":288.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.96471875000003,"end":289.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.14784375,"end":313.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.56096875000003,"end":307.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.42159375,"end":310.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.77971875000003,"end":342.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.77909375,"end":375.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.14096875,"end":408.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.07409375000003,"end":399.49596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.94596875,"end":411.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.20721875000004,"end":415.18971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.76784375000005,"end":414.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.78471875,"end":414.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.90284375000005,"end":414.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.97034375000004,"end":415.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.03784375000004,"end":415.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.30784375,"end":421.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.34159375,"end":415.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.94471875000005,"end":416.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.96159375,"end":417.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.02909375,"end":417.36659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.36659375000005,"end":417.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.38346875,"end":417.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.99034375,"end":427.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.84659375,"end":435.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.43659375000004,"end":429.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.02721875000003,"end":430.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.33846875,"end":435.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.77721875000003,"end":439.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.13534375,"end":439.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.42221875,"end":449.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.61971875,"end":444.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.41221875,"end":449.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.44596875,"end":451.01534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.47971875,"end":450.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.71159375,"end":455.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.93034375,"end":460.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.17034375000003,"end":458.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.63846875,"end":465.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.17784375,"end":465.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.76409375000003,"end":477.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.27409375,"end":469.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.29096875000005,"end":469.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.56096875000003,"end":469.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.82659375000003,"end":470.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.16784375000003,"end":474.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.21784375000004,"end":484.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.95096875,"end":493.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.06784375,"end":493.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.40534375000004,"end":493.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.52346875,"end":500.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.69221875000005,"end":496.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.47596875000005,"end":503.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.69096875,"end":521.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.3428437499999,"end":515.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.35534375,"end":516.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.60346875,"end":521.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.85659375,"end":523.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.71284375,"end":524.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.42159375,"end":546.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.8559687500001,"end":525.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.6472187500001,"end":538.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.2747187500001,"end":549.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.15596875,"end":558.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.75034375,"end":554.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.98596875,"end":565.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.2765937500001,"end":561.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.4115937500001,"end":561.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.49596875,"end":561.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.56284375,"end":566.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.6640937500001,"end":565.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.74846875,"end":567.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.87471875,"end":568.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.14471875,"end":569.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.56221875,"end":569.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.7647187499999,"end":593.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.34096875,"end":581.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.5847187500001,"end":587.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.6184687500001,"end":587.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.59221875,"end":599.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.7009687500001,"end":600.0890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.1397187499999,"end":604.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.69596875,"end":604.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.7297187500001,"end":604.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.9153437500001,"end":604.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.94909375,"end":613.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.25159375,"end":613.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.4540937500001,"end":628.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.4709687500001,"end":613.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.62909375,"end":628.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.18596875,"end":628.2703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.32096875,"end":638.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.8003437500001,"end":639.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.96909375,"end":642.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.1922187499999,"end":642.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.63096875,"end":671.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.9809687500001,"end":644.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":672.02721875,"end":684.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.83534375,"end":685.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":685.00409375,"end":695.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.06284375,"end":689.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.9822187500001,"end":689.9990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":691.75409375,"end":691.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.7709687500001,"end":693.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.65221875,"end":702.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":703.3134687500001,"end":705.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":705.7097187500001,"end":706.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":706.5872187500001,"end":725.5715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.5178437500001,"end":720.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.28534375,"end":726.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":726.07784375,"end":731.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":731.6128437500001,"end":734.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":734.93721875,"end":740.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.77596875,"end":746.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":741.48471875,"end":744.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":746.69909375,"end":785.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.67221875,"end":756.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":757.11096875,"end":758.5959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":760.33409375,"end":760.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":782.86221875,"end":846.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":789.9328437500001,"end":790.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":828.54284375,"end":828.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":845.26596875,"end":845.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.3290937500001,"end":846.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.6328437500001,"end":862.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":860.0147187500002,"end":870.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":864.72284375,"end":865.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":869.32971875,"end":872.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":872.9409687500001,"end":874.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":873.0422187500001,"end":873.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":874.1897187500001,"end":894.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":877.3115937500002,"end":878.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.32409375,"end":878.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":882.9140937500001,"end":883.3190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":894.22034375,"end":894.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":894.23721875,"end":894.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":894.35534375,"end":901.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":894.4228437500001,"end":894.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":897.74721875,"end":897.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":899.97471875,"end":901.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":901.24034375,"end":901.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":901.3078437500001,"end":901.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":904.9697187500001,"end":906.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":907.06221875,"end":909.00284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.429,"end":6.112,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝各位官員還有委員喔 部長請時部長陳委員早今天我們會拍這個專報就是因為我們怕去年經歷的春節擁捨急診擁捨這樣子的現象今年重蹈覆轍其實很多醫務人員也在也在擔憂啦那這個是去年我不知道印象很深刻去年呢發生了急診擁捨之後賴總統"},{"start":29.003,"end":54.918,"text":"當時有親自主持健康台灣推動委員會那他就說他非常關切這件事情那我們看衛福部自己發的文他寫得很清楚總統當時下令要落實分級並且呢總統指示說要建立一個民眾版的就醫指引那賴總統的支票已經開一年了這個傳說中可以解決傭色的民眾版就醫指引你們弄好了嗎"},{"start":55.959,"end":70.115,"text":"跟委員說明這個指引的部分那個144現在已經到了最後因為他要跟很多醫學會討論那差不多了那麼應該看看能不能在下個月初我們就會先上網下個月初"},{"start":71.164,"end":89.785,"text":"春節前我們就會讓他先上我給你看一下這個是我查到的因為你們蠻重視這件事嘛那我就上你們的網站去查你們的就醫指引到底在哪裡結果這個就醫指引是10年前的檔案這個你自己也知道啦"},{"start":91.167,"end":107.203,"text":"他是105年上傳的並且他上傳的檔案裡面還有提到行政院衛生署行政院衛生署是2013年改制的表示他上傳這個檔案有可能這個檔案還更早比2015年還更早那我把這邊全部都讀完了52頁"},{"start":109.725,"end":129.634,"text":"總統說到的分級醫療隻字未提裡面有講到說你去看醫生的時候你要自己怎麼樣整理自己的病情然後你應該跟醫生講什麼他有講到這些可是對於這個分級他是沒有講到那現在很開心聽到你說你要修改請問你修改的重點可以簡單一兩分鐘跟我們講一下就好了嗎"},{"start":130.174,"end":158.293,"text":"但他的這個重點上最重要是讓民眾清楚什麼時候到急診什麼時候其實在這個就近的這個基層診所看就可以重點在這個地方判斷這個需要去緊急就醫的那個要件是哪一些那我們也會搭配這個開診的資訊好像春節期間的我們都目前持續在調查當中那麼在1月28號我們健保已經在這個我們的那個"},{"start":160.292,"end":177.467,"text":"就醫資訊上面有個專區春節的就醫資訊專區裡面會列出所有每一天有開診的診所在哪一個區就可以查詢你會提供一個PDF檔會有一個APP就可以查"},{"start":178.528,"end":193.139,"text":"剛講了這麼多我們來看一下這個表這個是我剛上任的時候做過的總質詢當時的行政院長還是陳建仁我說蔡英文總統執政8年分級醫療是不動如山並且花了總共530億元所以她"},{"start":196.121,"end":213.812,"text":"民眾到醫學中心就醫的比例從106年到112年都是10點多%你們是把106年設定成一個基期那我們就從賴總統上任以來 我們來分析112到113又上漲了1% 10到11.8113到114又變成11.8到12.19"},{"start":220.936,"end":249.978,"text":"我也想問因為當時我在做這個質詢的時候您是署長不知道有沒有印象那這個這三年這兩三年的投入看起來是出了什麼問題因為你的預算跟政策看起來是無效甚至是更加惡化到底問題在哪裡之前還是持平現在是一年上升一趴跟委員報告因為這樣的數字太過於RAF我們有更細緻的去分析我們的做法上是把"},{"start":250.679,"end":255.001,"text":"醫院裡面把門診扣除掉重大傷病"},{"start":255.444,"end":284.706,"text":"扣除掉門診手術扣除掉急診因為我們在申報的時候會急門診是一起的把它扣除之後去看它的占比在醫學中心的平均占比這樣所謂的輕症占比是38%整個醫院收入的38%那麼到區醫院的等級的話呢它是大概50到55%到地區醫院是65%所以以這樣來看我們的分級醫療是成功的"},{"start":285.046,"end":300.354,"text":"你是用他的點子全部加起來他看的病人就是比較重就是說他很高的比例是重大傷病者那些癌症的病人這些你是需要到醫學中心就應該到醫學中心這個是OK的"},{"start":300.814,"end":328.452,"text":"所以按照这样来看这个数字的占比医学中心是在下降那你什么时候会提出你的新的评估表因为你应该要提出一个新的评估表嘛你要怎么样看哪些指标分别要可以落实有那因为我们就搭配了个别医院总统在看这个事情我想委员也听我讲过需要降到50%以下因为有的医学中心我刚刚讲的是平均是38%可是有的医院是高的所以要"},{"start":329.252,"end":343.7,"text":"超過50%的一定要降到50%以下我們會透過這個健保的機制醫院個別總和來調整所以來導引讓這個各層級的醫院扮演他的角色好 這個是你講的"},{"start":344.52,"end":359.919,"text":"你說你會先觀察你去年10月的時候說先進入一個觀察期然後再來醫院聯盟再來是漲部分負擔但是我們從過去這段時間來看你有漲過但似乎沒有什麼太大的效果目前我們面臨的困難是對基層"},{"start":361.701,"end":383.216,"text":"信任嘛因為大家可能覺得他平常非常習慣於到這邊看慢性病到醫學中心等等的他現在沒有辦法對基層信任我想知道你從10月到現在你說是觀察期你目前觀察到什麼跟委員說明我們另外再看基層剛剛我提到的是各層級醫院的分級醫療的角色我們認為他是有達到了"},{"start":385.017,"end":408.671,"text":"那麼部分的醫院沒有達到我們會透過個別醫院總額的調整機制那麼來要求至於在基層的部分我們看到在慢性處方間的領取率在基層的部分是提高了所以這個基層我們看到的這個趨勢是有增加的所以我們覺得這個分級效還是它的成效但是可以繼續再往前走"},{"start":408.991,"end":435.006,"text":"那我可以一個月跟你要你說你想設定新的評估數據嗎因為剛剛那個表也是你們自己做的然後做出來的表問你你又說不是這樣子算的可是這表是你做的我們不斷的在精進那一個月可以跟你說那一個月可以要你那新的指標嗎你新的指標那這邊再給你一些具體的建議因為你剛剛自己也講到說你要運用AI嘛"},{"start":435.486,"end":444.651,"text":"好 那其實我們現在就有一個APP健保快力通的APP你為什麼 你剛剛講了 你說你現在在調查春節會開的診所 基層診所然後你可能會給他誘因 對嗎你現在已經在調查了嘛對 誘因已經發布了然後到時候呢 到時候你會做一個檔案然後讓全國的民眾就知道不是只有檔案 它是很優化的查詢它可以根據你的所在地去查"},{"start":460.959,"end":484.171,"text":"我是建議你乾脆把它融入一個看診的地圖有有有 這已經有了我的意思是說你平常可以落實的話你春節就更可以落實更何況春節的時候很多人是在移動中所以他換到另外一個城市可能已經不是他在工作的地方所習慣的基層醫療診所他必須要重新去尋找"},{"start":485.191,"end":499.403,"text":"其實委員你可能沒有下載我們的這個健保的快易通啦我們的健保快易通有啦那個打開打開喔我的意思是說我的意思是說你要把它融入節日的時候有開的"},{"start":501.745,"end":505.929,"text":"你知道我的意思嗎因為我們現在就是在談論春節擁捨的問題那你平常當然一到五我自己打開我去查我去計程車所很ok因為這邊是習慣你居住或是工作的地方可是你春節的時候就在移動了那你剛剛很辛苦收集到這麼多的資訊你不是應該要把它融入嗎"},{"start":524.664,"end":549.191,"text":"那包括當然如果可以的話比如說清明連假或者是228連假你可以從這三四天五天的這些連假去做測試嘛因為春節就是一個一整年的壓力測試你如果等到一整年才測試一次我覺得這個就有點久所以平常有些連假的時候你就可以測試我們春節的部分這一次會先"},{"start":550.271,"end":558.637,"text":"拉出專區啦剛剛跟委員說明那個是尋常的拉出那個專區未來我們把假日也用個專區啦你的意思是我的意思就是說其實他什麼時候很需要是因為他可能連假的時候有移動他更不熟悉那附近的基層診所在哪裡或者是誰有開嘛那你也可以鼓勵這些你給他誘因你鼓勵他上傳然後你把他結合進去你的地圖以後那這些他就更有誘因他可以被查詢到"},{"start":581.172,"end":596.5,"text":"好那第二個就是這個UCC但是我剛好聽其他委員質詢所以我可能再等待一段時間聽起來你現在還沒有辦法給我們一個UCC你有沒有要擴大還是沒有要擴大是嗎對我們當時候就提到說16個月之後會檢討那來決定調整或擴大好"},{"start":600.442,"end":619.107,"text":"那十六個月之後我們再來跟你查詢這個那第二個問題因為這個也是急診室擁捨最近就是剛好是近期靠近春節的前後都會發生的因為我們現在有很多的尾牙春酒然後還有春節這個過年大家去餐廳吃飯等等的那2024年醫療暴力高達444件是五年來的新高近六成都在急診室"},{"start":629.01,"end":647.302,"text":"因為這樣子私人的活動所引起的醫療需求也就是說喝太多通常送到急診他就打點滴這個你都很清楚因為你也是急診科醫生睡覺可是他其實消耗掉非常多醫護的量能對這個你都懂那包括我們的警察救護車等等"},{"start":648.143,"end":663.434,"text":"那這個是你們次長自己講的 你們次長說他開始想到一些研議的方法比如說參考其他國家 瑞士啊 美國啊會有一個禁制隔離式 類似讓他行久的這種觀察式他不一定是醫療機構裡面 或者是醫療人員來成立的那他講了這個話 後來又有新聞 請問你們內部有開過會嗎"},{"start":672.823,"end":691.406,"text":"這個跟委員說明過去在急診經常會處理這一種病那麼一般來講有兩種狀況一種是因為他的混亂讓我們無法判斷他有沒有醫療問題他可能同時有外傷或什麼可是又有酒精的效果那一種才需要在醫院裡面留"},{"start":691.766,"end":696.328,"text":"那是我純粹是要睡覺的不准在醫院睡覺這個我等一下會跟你討論我的意思是說你們次長講了這個然後這個也上了新聞你們到底有沒有要研擬我不是在問你急診處理的guideline"},{"start":706.99,"end":725.202,"text":"這個所謂的靜置區齁這個靜置區就是觀察區啦就是觀察啦啊只是讓他不要去干擾到醫護人員或者是其他他就是個觀察區不是睡覺區啦就是說他有醫療的需要那需要留觀的時候讓他有一個isolate的地方我們會來研議因為過去齁在有一些醫院的急診有這種這個譬如說AQpsychotic的病人他就會"},{"start":735.922,"end":760.007,"text":"就會在這一個房間裡面去靜置不見得是酗酒所以聽起來你是想把它放在醫院裡面有時候是需要的聽起來你是希望把它放在醫療院所裡面不是不是不是不是我剛剛提到的是有一些急性精神病人他會有混亂的情形也會在急診裡面有一個獨立的空間對啊那就是醫療院所裡面就一樣啊就是跟這個概念是一樣"},{"start":760.387,"end":789.449,"text":"我剛剛提到的是喝酒醉的喝酒醉的要睡覺就回家睡覺不是在醫院裡面擺一個空間給他酒醒沒有這回事情但是他如果有醫療的需要需要觀察看看他有沒有其他的問題因為有時候酒精的會影響到在病人病情診斷跟處事上的影響需要觀察那就留在這裡我先幫你整理我先幫你整理一下就是其實最近也有一個新聞"},{"start":790.329,"end":815.509,"text":"這個新聞是他其實常常是想要回家但是他在回家的路上因為交通事故發生問題所以也不是這麼簡單但你們次長所講出來的整理了世界各國比如說瑞士、美國、加拿大、澳洲他們都有做類似這樣子的行酒中心他們可能是地方政府或者是非營利機構做主要就是做幾個事情當然他會去判斷他需不需要去醫院就像你剛剛講的他現在沒有急症嘛呼吸抑制"},{"start":816.369,"end":824.932,"text":"嚴重的嘔吐或是意識喪失這個是他要判斷的如果沒有不需要醫療介入的可以自然等待清醒的會放在這邊安全的去安置監測離開的時候是要付費的那離開之後他可能還會被記錄如果他很常來"},{"start":832.554,"end":851.061,"text":"他可能要過濾出有酒飲的人需要去戒斷的人還要去上課的人等等的但是他在其他國家很多並不一定是由醫療機構來做因為他很多處置並不需要醫療人員所以這個就是一個月內希望可以要到你"},{"start":852.361,"end":871.352,"text":"研擬之後評估之後你到底多久要達成因為這個也是解決我們春節擁捨的其中一個小的項目或是平常跟委員報告這個一個月沒有辦法這個要跨部會不可能把它放在醫院裡面那我們多久可以再跟你討論"},{"start":872.333,"end":899.611,"text":"三個月啦 我們來研究看看好啊 三個月那裡面就這幾個重點就請您稍微看一下就主觀的去判斷就這個到底機構法源基礎在哪裡它是醫療的還是警政還是民政嘛然後它的比如說你們要不要收費那它是不是會跟一些戒癮來做串聯那主觀的判斷是要送醫院還是留在這邊等等然後各國遇到預算問題社區的接受度等等好 那我們就三個月可以再跟您討論好 謝謝"},{"start":904.997,"end":908.502,"text":"好 謝謝陳勤輝委員發言接下來請王育民委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167307","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167307","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88d778c027dead9efb5ca6c4b86dd6b28fba72e0f898bedb4404c117b4160d12fc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"09:39:31 - 09:50:32","影片長度":"00:11:01","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「面對全球經貿變局挑戰，如何協輔僑臺商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:39:31+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T09:50:32+08:00","duration":661,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.3472187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.71846875,"end":7.152218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.72596875,"end":9.059093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.227843750000002,"end":10.122218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.700343750000002,"end":10.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.64846875,"end":47.618468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.955968750000004,"end":136.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.54534375,"end":187.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.20846875,"end":187.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.71034375000002,"end":188.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.72721875000002,"end":195.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.59534375,"end":196.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.62471875,"end":247.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.91221875000002,"end":273.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.02159375000002,"end":249.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.89721875000004,"end":262.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.03471875,"end":273.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.62534375,"end":273.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.74346875000003,"end":273.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.92909375,"end":309.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.97409375,"end":422.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.97596875000005,"end":352.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.38409375000003,"end":414.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.08721875000003,"end":432.52034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.04909375000005,"end":424.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.87471875000006,"end":473.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.70409375,"end":445.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.96971875,"end":447.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.01596875,"end":524.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.91409375,"end":478.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.23721875,"end":490.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.23909375000005,"end":504.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.21909375,"end":540.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.72284375,"end":579.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.47284375,"end":548.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.3559687500001,"end":566.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.80721875,"end":568.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.80971875,"end":593.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.8390937500001,"end":579.8897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.30534375,"end":660.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.4697187500001,"end":596.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.0772187499999,"end":622.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.8603437500001,"end":661.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.95284375,"end":661.9697187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.71,"end":8.603,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩請副委員長以及我們衛生福利部常務次長謝謝"},{"start":17.957,"end":45.976,"text":"執行長還有副主委因為就我們今天當前國際政經的環境原本在經歷冠狀病毒疫情結束以後我們經過重新啟動以後希望可以迅速的復甦可是在俄羅斯2022年2月起入侵烏克蘭以後除了引發全世界的糧食能源供應鏈的危機以外中東地區之前的以哈衝突"},{"start":48.297,"end":51.198,"text":"之間的衝突近期緊張局勢也不斷的攀升那東南亞地區從去年也發生太減邊境的衝突就這些相關的衝突以外那在美國跟大陸兩大經濟體持續的對抗底下南海跟台海局勢也一直沒有有緩和的趨勢所以這也影響到台灣本身經貿發展跟佈局也使得在東南亞"},{"start":77.405,"end":84.151,"text":"布局的這些台商也受到很大的影響那就這個部分像我們也看到美國總統他在第二任以後採取的美國優先的政策對各國關稅站的這些相關措施對我們也首當其衝"},{"start":96.002,"end":102.126,"text":"那造成全球供應鏈加速的重整也使台商的經營環境在住在國可能有一些相關的經貿衝擊也處於不利的局勢老實說我們的橋台商真的是非常的厲害因為其實他們在政府給予的助力不多的情況之下他們可以在全世界各地去發展自己的實力然後去面對最大的困局然後也成功的在每一個的國家"},{"start":125.803,"end":140.494,"text":"都可以有自己的一席之地這是真的非常非常的不容易所以就我們國家可以提供的協助我們還是希望在他們需求的部分我們可以提供更好的"},{"start":140.674,"end":142.395,"text":"相關的比如說像我們國內可以提供的一些相關的福利措施啊或者應該給予的資源等等那近期本席也率領我們相關的訪團前往越南我們也拜訪了協業建築業"},{"start":157.103,"end":160.864,"text":"還有機動車還有很多製造業的一些多家龍頭的企業然後也跟平壤還有同奈等地的台商做了一些座談那在這些拜會的過程當中我們也可以感受到這些橋台商他們在美國關稅政策也會面臨一些衝擊那就這個部分我相信橋委會應該也有一些相關的掌握"},{"start":184.734,"end":186.786,"text":"目前有沒有什麼相關的因應作為"},{"start":188.735,"end":193.098,"text":"謝謝委員的關心非常認同委員剛剛所說的我們的橋台商其實在這個中華民國台灣在跟很多國際上沒有正式外交關係的情況之下還能夠靠著自己的力量然後片手之足很多我們橋台商的第一代都是自己努力然後打下一片天那同時呢在創立基業的之後還能夠回饋台灣確實讓我們感到非常的敬佩"},{"start":217.432,"end":221.194,"text":"那尤其是呢台灣其實在越南的台商分布的非常多產業類別也非常多那這幾年呢因為新南向政策的關係其實越南的部分我們台商普遍大致上來說發展的是不錯的那台灣對東協的投資也一直陸續的在增加當中那我們也協服了很多越南的台商協助他們做產業的升級跟轉型包括導入了循環經濟還有數位轉型的相關的"},{"start":247.244,"end":262.367,"text":"我們測要的可能不是這個因為其實橋台商其實在越南他們如果可以立足而且發展得很好他們已經發展得很好我們現在要說因為如果倒掉的如果撤回來的已經都撤回來的我們已經知道是現況可是我們現在是說面臨現有的國際局勢還有現在我們台海的局勢緊張的情況之下我們可以做到什麼減藥的一個方向就好"},{"start":274.29,"end":277.552,"text":"跟委員報告目前我們這個美國關稅的專案貸款的專案裡面到目前為止有六件來申請那這六件都是來自越南的台商那可見就是說我們這個專案雖然不敢說是全部但是有一些程度有幫助到可以服務到越南台商的需求"},{"start":292.339,"end":296.26,"text":"那當然台商的需求他可能是範圍很廣大那個問題都不一而足但是僑委會的立場是請聽他們然後協助他們能夠對接到相關的部會因為他們的產業類別還有他們面臨的困境可能會非常的不一樣因為現在我們剛有提到就是說如果他們其實在有很多的企業剛好我們也提到有很多其實已經立足很成熟很穩定在發展的"},{"start":320.486,"end":324.008,"text":"其實他們跟我們政府要借錢的機會並不是那麼大因為我們的像我們這些經費其實也不是很高所以他們最需要的就是在這個國際局勢當中剛剛有說要跟其他部會對接因為這個不是僑委會獨立可以做到的所以我們希望這個對接的角色可以做到更好"},{"start":341.536,"end":344.237,"text":"因為他不是只有花錢而已所以預算到底怎麼樣我們僑委會並不是很多所以他可以影響的主要的是我們在這個橋樑扮演的這個平台才是我們的重點那剛剛有提到可能在他們的需求上面因為今天衛福部也列席我們希望可以一起來解決相關的問題因為這一次我們去參訪的時候也剛好"},{"start":368.423,"end":372.027,"text":"有碰到這個問題就是在冠狀病毒防疫期間僑委會曾經配合衛福部在推動健康義友APP提供給海外我們的僑胞遠距免費健康的諮詢那疫情結束以後"},{"start":385.16,"end":388.181,"text":"僑胞希望可以持續的因為當時這樣子的一個措施應該是對他們有很大的一個注意所以他們也希望說在海外可以享用我們台灣的醫療資源可以讓台商跟家人在異地也可以安心就醫畢竟台灣在整個醫療"},{"start":404.568,"end":410.332,"text":"的水準上面其實是受到肯定的尤其是我們出門在外的這些我們的橋台商還有他相關的眷屬所以他們很希望能夠以插健保卡的方式來作業我想要請教我們嘗試那就這個部分我們可以在海外遠距醫療的這個部分可以有什麼具體的做法嗎"},{"start":433.301,"end":447.667,"text":"目前其實跟越南台商這邊其實是用虛擬的健保卡他不需要在因為他的健保卡是在他身上嘛那現在只要用手機的虛擬健保卡他們可以用對 目前可以用所以就是透過虛擬健保卡的部分不過目前因為我們的規定是說在國人在海外喔那只能有那個急症才能夠回國之後來那個就是先玷污再核退"},{"start":460.592,"end":470.36,"text":"那現在就是說所以現在跟越南台湯這部分是自費的也就是說看完之後那可能要由這個他的家人在這邊台北這邊幫他準備藥物再寄過去大概就這個程序那可以不可以有一個更簡便的方式因為你還是在我們這邊可能還要取藥各方面"},{"start":482.31,"end":485.292,"text":"因為他們除了健保卡的使用以外因為他可能你說的大概是有一些慢性疾病或者其他的可能重要的一個狀況發生的時候可是如果以現在我們的包括醫療器材其實包括遠距醫療其實他慢慢的在成熟的情況底下比如說像台中榮總"},{"start":504.466,"end":512.255,"text":"他跟那個普容其實他們現在有一些醫療的設備其實就可以做一個連結那就這個部分其實在看診的時候遠距醫療看診的時候其實他們可以提供更好的這樣的一個諮詢服務還有看診的這個作業那這個部分我們有沒有辦法做到"},{"start":525.21,"end":538.305,"text":"他應該是說他如果可以怎麼去提供他那些比如說穿戴裝置那個資料這可以再評估啦但是就是說因為這也涉及到各國的他們那個醫療的規定可能也需要再研議啦"},{"start":541.028,"end":545.569,"text":"因為就這個部分他們也提到非常多因為有時候可能不小心生病那可是又不是這麼嚴重的情況之下或者並不適合在搭飛機的情況之下可以怎麼樣提供他們更好的這些醫療的諮詢跟服務我想這個可能是他們迫切需要的因為如果說為了有時候不是真的非常嚴重可是他必須要搭飛機又回來"},{"start":568.174,"end":592.748,"text":"光是來回的機票或者它的騎乘等等其實也會有很大的可能那種損耗那就這個部分我們也期待有一種的方式就是說這個它可以在就跟當地的那個醫療機構合作啦也就是說由醫療機構跟我們這邊醫療機構遠距然後它就可以提供一些諮詢的一個"},{"start":593.348,"end":597.509,"text":"那這個應該也是一個很好的方法所以我們也希望說僑委會站在協助我們僑台商的立場然後衛福部也可以提供這樣子的一個平台來跟其他的住在國因為我們一步一步慢慢來如果有一些國家可以跟我們做這樣的一個配合調整我們也來提供給僑商台商其實更好的這樣子的醫療服務那這一個部分也請"},{"start":620.137,"end":625.92,"text":"我們衛福部可以多琢磨然後配合我們僑委會看應該怎麼樣來做這樣的一個橋樑的一個工作好不好因為我們希望我們分佈在全球各地因為有一些你如果當地的醫療資源或者他的醫療品質不錯那當然大家比較不會擔心可是相對的他們的費用也非常高"},{"start":643.148,"end":657.505,"text":"可是你如果在一些醫療水準可能比較沒有那麼好的情況底下其實他們還是會是對他們一個很重要的一個資源的服務這個部分我們請衛福部跟僑委會可以同時來進行好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167312","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167312","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88f0e9f0d178aeb11652fd623850d83d5b9da39f225449bb57f1956145e7c495575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:08:38 - 10:18:41","影片長度":"00:10:03","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:08:38+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:18:41+08:00","duration":603,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":2.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.49471875,"end":3.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.1353437500000005,"end":7.9790937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.36721875,"end":53.406593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.92534375,"end":28.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.744093750000005,"end":60.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.734718750000006,"end":59.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.135343750000004,"end":61.62471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.09721875,"end":62.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.924093750000004,"end":111.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.38784375,"end":65.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.35346875,"end":69.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.07659375,"end":86.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.50096875000001,"end":97.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.35971875000001,"end":116.51909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.67159375000001,"end":113.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.16909375,"end":122.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.13846875,"end":139.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.15471875000001,"end":126.39096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.99221875,"end":144.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.04659375,"end":143.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.94096875,"end":146.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.11346875,"end":150.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.04971875,"end":167.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.45409375,"end":154.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.09034375000002,"end":162.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.51534375,"end":213.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.72284375,"end":189.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.39534375000002,"end":206.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.83721875,"end":214.12409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.98909375000002,"end":231.42096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.13096875000002,"end":224.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.07971875,"end":228.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.50534375,"end":247.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.57284375,"end":231.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.54534375000003,"end":246.40596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.50721875000002,"end":288.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.81471875000003,"end":250.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.97909375,"end":251.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.38721875,"end":258.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.96909375,"end":261.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.38846875,"end":277.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.96221875000003,"end":278.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.80534375,"end":282.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.82221875,"end":283.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.58096875,"end":287.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.42471875,"end":328.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.84596875,"end":293.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.16659375,"end":293.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.58846875,"end":293.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.51909375,"end":305.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.11534375,"end":324.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.23284375000003,"end":335.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.34221875000003,"end":332.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.32034375,"end":339.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.45096875,"end":337.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.23534375,"end":342.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.12096875000003,"end":343.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.96471875000003,"end":343.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.01096875,"end":354.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.10784375000003,"end":345.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.97659375,"end":349.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.35534375000003,"end":355.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.75596875,"end":356.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.10596875000005,"end":357.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.17346875000004,"end":357.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.64596875,"end":357.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.69659375000003,"end":357.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.20284375,"end":359.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.50221875,"end":380.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.30471875,"end":386.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.51534375,"end":384.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.50221875,"end":388.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.21096875,"end":388.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.72971875,"end":392.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.09221875000003,"end":396.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.34471875,"end":395.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.39096875,"end":396.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.47534375000004,"end":418.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.81534375,"end":408.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.22721875,"end":445.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.75034375,"end":448.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.34909375,"end":456.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.19284375,"end":449.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.10721875,"end":466.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.46846875000006,"end":477.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.91409375,"end":508.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.50846875,"end":510.98909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.34346875000006,"end":525.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.19784375,"end":539.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.8390937500001,"end":525.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.5134687500001,"end":531.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.00284375,"end":531.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.7703437499999,"end":533.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.82096875,"end":534.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.9297187500001,"end":544.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.25034375,"end":540.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.79846875,"end":556.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.91596875,"end":548.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.14659375,"end":569.3428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.56409375,"end":557.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.6147187500001,"end":558.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.1884687500001,"end":558.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.83221875,"end":578.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.8984687500001,"end":581.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.94471875,"end":579.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.0078437500001,"end":591.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.2522187500001,"end":584.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.4409687500001,"end":589.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.1453437499999,"end":594.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.9678437499999,"end":593.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.68909375,"end":594.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.70596875,"end":594.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.7397187500001,"end":595.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.5365937500001,"end":602.87346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.59,"end":7.8,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請部長請時部長王媛媛好"},{"start":8.41,"end":31.223,"text":"部長好 部長今天大家都非常關注今年長達九天的春節期間到底我們的醫療量能夠不夠會不會很多民眾生病的時候又往大醫院跑造成急診的擁捨然後去排擠了一些需要重大醫療的病人就診的權利那我覺得第一件事情我們要確立的就是說"},{"start":32.083,"end":46.351,"text":"我們的基層診所的開診率夠不夠因為你這樣子才能分流那過去是一成的比例那你們今年祭出了16億的獎金就希望大家可以提高那到目前為止我上次問過林靜儀次長他沒有辦法說出現在到底基層診所開診率達到多少那今天部長你知道了嗎"},{"start":53.786,"end":71.942,"text":"跟委員報告確實您的觀察完全正確啦在去年齁我們調查初一初二初三開診率二四2到4左右沒有到一成啦2到4個%非常的低所以我們今年才有這個獎勵措施這幾天開診是double的幾副嘛"},{"start":72.382,"end":87.189,"text":"那到目前的話已經有在上升有的已經到10了那有些縣市大概在7左右已經比去年大概有兩倍的成長但是目前還在一直在調查當中透過衛生局跟醫師公會的push大家在調查所以這個"},{"start":89.95,"end":110.375,"text":"這個門診就基層診所的開診率一定是比去年高那另外我們的UCC也準備好在這些六都人比較多的地方我們也去強化那醫院的部分的開診率也提高了現在調查回來大概醫院在這幾天初一 初二 初三開診率都會達到七成以上所以也都會有開診"},{"start":111.315,"end":138.71,"text":"醫院向來是比較高所以民眾的慣性就會覺得跑大醫院怎麼能做醫院的開診室開在門診所以他也可以去分流掉那個急診不會直接跑到急診區但是基層的診所其實對民眾就醫來講是相對比較方便的那所以你現在有沒有把握就是說經過你們這樣的激勵之後你剛剛說有部分已經到10%那整體22個縣市你有把握平均數可以拉到10到15%嗎"},{"start":140.031,"end":166.343,"text":"我們朝這個10%來努力所以祭出16億也只能到10%你知不知道大家診所不開的原因不過也要考慮到的是說民眾的那個就醫需要因為這個傳統上這個大年初一看病這個國人才是所以我們不要讓大家都很累但是沒有病人也不好所以我們在拿捏"},{"start":167.623,"end":179.13,"text":"是 我覺得這個部分的確你們要好好去研議我今天看到了這個基隆市政府他們做一件事情我覺得蠻不錯的我認為衛福部應該去督導各縣市是不是可以比照辦理他們其實在26號他就找了這個區域裡面包括醫師公會然後醫院診所就是大家來開會然後仔細去盤點然後很慎重的來看待這件事情"},{"start":195.259,"end":209.455,"text":"去整合這樣的一個醫療量能那另外一個呢他還特別在2月14號呢他要開始去安排人力每天去監控就是他的急診的就醫人數還有病床數還有他跟醫院的高層"},{"start":210.236,"end":225.94,"text":"它其實是會有一個即時的調度機制的然後呢它就是透過這個即時調度機制要去確保醫療量能是足夠的我看到基隆市政府衛生局這樣的做法我個人覺得蠻欣賞的因為這個就是很確實去掌握在地的所有的醫療量能而且透過溝通透過平台也跟醫院的高層可以有一個即時調度的機制那我要問你的是"},{"start":237.362,"end":258.102,"text":"除了高雄市政府這樣做之外其他的22個縣市有沒有比照這樣跟進辦理有沒有人在做這件事你掌握情況如何跟我們報告其實好幾個縣市都是這樣啟動像桃園也是台南也這樣做所以衛生局都主動的去介入像台南市的開診率就很高"},{"start":258.662,"end":288.202,"text":"他現在已經調查到800多家都要開了所以這個確實像您講的衛生局如果能夠更主動一點這個就會效果更好那我們現在也在2月2號還會再找所有各衛生局再開一次去了解目前的開診情形跟這個力道夠不夠所以我想這個我們會密切的您的這個所舉的這個基隆市的例子其實我們知道幾個縣市也都做得不錯我們會來跟他們分享這個做法"},{"start":288.822,"end":311.931,"text":"你作為中央主管機關其實就是要掌握有些做比較好的就要讓其他縣市知道說事實上透過這樣的一個協調的機制溝通或者是你的一個監測你會讓整個的運作其實是達到你原來想要達到的目標不是只有獎金發出去好像它就自然產生效果其實並沒有還有中間你整個落實的部分所以這個部分我希望你們好好去督導"},{"start":312.631,"end":339.346,"text":"那另外一個就是剛剛業委員提到就是即時就醫的資訊夠不夠透明你剛剛說你可以透過APP就是在春節期間所有的醫療量能哪些診所開診幾點到幾點你現在已經佈建好這樣的一個即時就醫地圖了嗎對 已經Ready了Ready了是不是那它會即時更新嗎對 現在不斷的在更新都會即時更新那個資訊嘛那那個APP是在哪裡1月28號上線 1月28號"},{"start":342.208,"end":357.415,"text":"1月28號就是這禮拜已經上線了就會上線那在我們的健保的APP上面會有一個專區但是資訊還在不斷的更新因為有的還在調查所以現在是可使用了對 應該可以了嗎"},{"start":358.794,"end":379.899,"text":"來我們那個署長好來是謝謝委員的指導所以我們在健保APP有一個春節專區上面有兩個鞭炮點進去點自己所在地點你要的時段就會跑出所有有開診的醫療院所是即時的所以一直在更新那我們昨天做的資訊測試這禮拜就可以對外公布以上這禮拜什麼時候對外公布"},{"start":381.331,"end":395.082,"text":"已經上線了28號所以今天已經可以開始使用了那待會大家幫忙測試一下大家測試一下如果有什麼問題立刻跟我們反映"},{"start":396.783,"end":417.518,"text":"我覺得這個部分其實非常的重要啦我希望我們今年的這個春節醫療量能是匆匆容容游刃有餘不要連滾帶爬我想希望在大家的通力合作底下可以達到這樣的效果那最後我要問的是醫院裡面這個護理人員其實非常的辛苦"},{"start":418.399,"end":444.704,"text":"那你們的這個護病比獎勵金的制度現在施行下來有兩個問題我希望部長回去之後你還是要去思考一下第一個就是說醫學中心的門檻有沒有過高的問題你們在114年6月獎勵金這個幾家大的醫學中心都還有分到但是你們調高門檻之後瞬間歸零獎勵金突然就歸零部長你知道這樣的情況嗎"},{"start":445.925,"end":470.355,"text":"我再了解一下這個是去年的事對我希望這個部分你們好好去去研議一下瞬間歸零那這個當然護理師就也一毛錢就拿不到了那另外一個是地區醫院你的公式設計你完全跟住院住院率就是來做聯動然後有護理師就說領到醫院發的幾十塊他覺得是被羞辱"},{"start":471.475,"end":488.435,"text":"因為分到很少他就這樣分下去幾十塊也算獎勵金這個覺得不生唏噓所以像這個護理人員最近大家也在討論怎麼樣讓我們的護理師可以減少他的人力負擔包括你們現在要引進"},{"start":489.156,"end":503.921,"text":"一些外籍工他可以來從旁協助這個方向性我個人是支持的是降低這個護理師但是本職上面他們在第一線的現場有一些還是是工作負荷過高的一個問題我覺得這個真的是很長期以來的問題啦那我希望部長這個新上任齁這個問題"},{"start":511.434,"end":539.046,"text":"你可能要多想想怎麼樣可以讓我們的護理師真的可以穩定下來因為我們在醫院的這個整個運作少了護理師病床都開不了他們真的很重要是我們會來檢討不過剛剛提到這個幾十塊的我們有查最主要就是因為都是20床以下的醫院所以床數就是很少所以他也沒有什麼病人所以換句話說他的loading也很輕"},{"start":539.986,"end":568.801,"text":"但是他不是住房的這部分他可能是在門診的部分不管門診的這是住院歸住院的護理師因為我們的加成是根據你收治住院病人的10%去加成他只住一天就是有一種沒有病人其實是沒有病人其實這樣的護理人員他上班的時候也輕鬆因為沒病人但是他需要有一個護理師在那邊"},{"start":570.121,"end":593.286,"text":"這個病房要等嘛不知道什麼時候會有但是確實又沒有什麼病人來所以他最後會領到的很少主要是這樣所以這樣的公視對這一類的醫院其實就沒有產生效果我們來討論看看分到幾十塊怎麼讓這些小型醫院的這個功能能夠發揮出來這是另外一個要思考的好啊 你們一併去檢討好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":599.002,"end":602.051,"text":"謝謝王育民委員發言接下來請邱振軍委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167306","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167306","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88fae411af6ac7b95752fd623850d83d5bba72e0f898bedb446a72962f41d473255ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:27:48 - 09:40:01","影片長度":"00:12:13","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:27:48+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T09:40:01+08:00","duration":733,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.06471875,"end":0.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.87409375,"end":6.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.54034375,"end":8.333468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.910968750000002,"end":12.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.68721875,"end":22.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.00221875,"end":22.356593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.17096875,"end":23.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.094718750000002,"end":26.136593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.33909375,"end":53.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.45284375000001,"end":74.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.13346875,"end":77.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.82909375,"end":92.06721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.42221875,"end":88.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.95346875,"end":118.17284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.27346875,"end":95.62784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.71284375,"end":148.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.19346875000002,"end":158.40284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.65596875,"end":177.80909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.67284375,"end":158.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.25409375,"end":165.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.40971875000002,"end":168.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.38784375,"end":173.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.80909375000002,"end":177.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.99471875,"end":185.30159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.01159375,"end":178.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.27284375000002,"end":180.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.83346875,"end":184.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.47034375,"end":187.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.86659375000002,"end":205.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.78784375,"end":206.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.00721875000002,"end":222.37596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.94659375,"end":216.21659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.37596875000003,"end":222.51096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.51096875000002,"end":234.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.23909375000002,"end":274.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.46096875,"end":276.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.89096875,"end":291.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.47284375000004,"end":277.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.87221875,"end":289.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.33596875,"end":290.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.42846875000004,"end":297.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.29721875,"end":294.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.89596875,"end":296.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.91284375000004,"end":296.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.92971875,"end":297.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.77346875,"end":308.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.45159375000003,"end":306.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.34596875,"end":306.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.75909375000003,"end":308.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.77596875,"end":309.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.01221875000005,"end":312.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.04971875,"end":314.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.70346875,"end":326.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.92659375,"end":317.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.90909375,"end":320.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.92596875000004,"end":320.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.95971875000004,"end":320.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.97659375,"end":321.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.52846875,"end":326.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.64659375,"end":368.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.47096875,"end":343.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.88471875000005,"end":369.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.12096875000003,"end":374.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.87534375,"end":375.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.02721875000003,"end":376.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.52909375,"end":377.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.98471875,"end":412.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.12346875000003,"end":380.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.92909375000005,"end":382.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.20346875,"end":408.43971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.60784375000003,"end":413.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.89471875000004,"end":416.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.20221875000004,"end":416.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.38784375,"end":420.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.04971875,"end":420.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.50534375,"end":429.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.02721875000003,"end":485.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.20909375,"end":480.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.72784375000003,"end":483.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.29284375000003,"end":503.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.46971875,"end":486.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.06221875000006,"end":502.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.54721875,"end":503.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.76659375,"end":541.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.34409375,"end":507.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.07221875,"end":519.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.6003437500001,"end":541.9209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.8872187500001,"end":561.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.16471875,"end":548.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.6328437500001,"end":549.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.05721875,"end":561.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.3103437500001,"end":563.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.8415937500001,"end":571.3172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.52846875,"end":569.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.3172187499999,"end":571.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.94159375,"end":576.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.16034375,"end":589.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.9697187500001,"end":581.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.48846875,"end":582.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.42034375,"end":586.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.18784375,"end":589.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.33971875,"end":593.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.57534375,"end":598.7390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.7390937499999,"end":598.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.8234687500001,"end":601.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.8403437500001,"end":599.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.05096875,"end":601.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.59096875,"end":614.1459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.1459687500001,"end":614.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.4834687499999,"end":635.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.11909375,"end":624.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":631.13909375,"end":631.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.24034375,"end":631.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":631.29096875,"end":631.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.2859687499999,"end":639.8972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.09971875,"end":679.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.7903437500001,"end":649.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.8572187500001,"end":680.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.09346875,"end":716.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.7040937500001,"end":688.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.09221875,"end":688.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.7822187500001,"end":703.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.32409375,"end":723.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":719.85096875,"end":720.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":721.38659375,"end":722.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.4622187500001,"end":724.9809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.42784375,"end":731.98409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":5.839,"text":"委員發言謝謝主席 有請部長請時部長"},{"start":12.163,"end":30.047,"text":"陳委員早好 副長謝謝你們這個國民年改的那個接受民眾黨黨團建議的第15跟50項的修改 謝謝那最近澄清醫院也發生了急診暴力那有酒醉的這個民眾他把護理師打到腦震盪所以造成很多民眾跟這個醫療人員他們都非常的憤怒"},{"start":30.587,"end":53.007,"text":"有人提出這樣的主張說在醫院施暴或毆打醫護人員應該要停用健保卡一年全額自費但是部長我知道全面停卡會涉及憲法上的一個健康權跟比例原則但是我還是要請教衛福部在不能停卡的一個前提下有沒有辦法讓施暴者付出實質代價的一個制度上的設計呢"},{"start":54.762,"end":81.042,"text":"跟委員報告我想對於不管在任何場域任何的情境之下那麼我們對於這個暴力行為一定是嚴厲的譴責啦那特別是在醫療這種救人的場域更不應該那麼過去呢這個在103年 不好意思請教部長你有在做一些制度上的設計嗎制度上我們有很多的措施啦那麼剛剛提到的這個"},{"start":83.104,"end":92.415,"text":"這個用健保的方式因為健保畢竟它是以這個保障這個生命的安全做最重要的基本再請問下面幾個問題就是您一併考慮就是說醫護人員是否有據診"},{"start":97.661,"end":117.999,"text":"就是說拒絕診療或終止就暫停這個醫療的空間施暴者除了刑責他本身就要負刑責那是否有健保給付上的一個譬如說加重負擔是否研議對特定惡意的行為人設計部分負擔的加成或指定就醫流程等等這個配套有沒有往這個方向去思考呢"},{"start":119.12,"end":148.197,"text":"我想我們有在這個擬定一些相關的指引那麼所有在醫療過程當中還是以安全最重要所以這個剛剛說到的據診那麼不是很下當但是呢保護自身醫護人員自身的安全還是應該優先考慮如果有這種這個暴力甚至危害到安全的情況應該先處理安全的情形那麼自身的保護還是最重要的"},{"start":148.577,"end":176.534,"text":"對 當然我這張投屏的標題說能不能註記當然我也覺得註記是當然這個也要考慮然後指定就醫流程其實有點像開黃燈就是說我們知道他就是有可能有暴力傾向但是在醫學倫理上又不能不照顧部長這個健保署統計去年11月到今天全國UCC每天看診的人數大概只有350人還不及一間急救責任醫院他一日的看診人數"},{"start":178.075,"end":205.317,"text":"甚至有好多天是不到300人那其中台北市很嚴重每個月只有40個人次那台北有三個點那其中兩個點還蠻靠近的那陳署長您也說過說UCCC由健保署來進行方案的規劃那提供經費支持那但是選點是由地方衛生局來做的那當地的衛生局也許是更清楚醫療的量能那但是目前的健保署的資料統計還是顯示整個量能是很不一的"},{"start":206.358,"end":232.311,"text":"陳署長你也說過說開始有設計說4月初預計要針對這些選點再重新做個盤點因為設立之初的時候是尊重各地衛生局他來選擇這個地點但並沒有預設說要多少人數就醫人數所以我下面就請教部長跟署長以目前累積的大概我的所編資料4800的人次的累積使用量請問UCC是否已經達到避免民眾都往急診衝的這個政策目標呢"},{"start":234.432,"end":259.8,"text":"我想這個階段是剛剛如同委員所提的我們初始的階段是搭配這個跟衛生局討論那麼由衛生局去指定這個點那麼一共有六都開始試辦未來可能還會擴大到其他縣市有這個需要的話那六都共選定了13個處所我們可以看到有些處所很成功譬如說在台南的點它的這個"},{"start":260.96,"end":288.911,"text":"這個一天的這個就診量將近200人那也可以看到他他鄰近的像成大醫院集美醫院的急診輕症的人數也有下降像這樣的點還有服務的方式就很成功那但是像台北市像您指教的台北市看起來三個點那麼他相對於台北市的整個就醫的量是大的那麼以這三個點提供到的這個分流的機制確實有限"},{"start":289.511,"end":309.886,"text":"所以我們未來會去檢討我想再提醒一點說雖然說選點是尊重這個地方面具但一個這個是一個全國性的健保政策那如果說完全沒有中央的最低標準沒有使用量的門檻來看的話也沒有退場機制那這樣有點像地方自治有點像中方中央政府就放手不管了有點就是說請"},{"start":311.347,"end":335.208,"text":"我們會跟地方衛生局討論醫療改革基金會也非常重視他們提出一個很關鍵的提醒他不是說制度本身沒有錯而是改變的順序錯了醫改會要指出很多國家UCC的成功是因為比急診快比急診便宜但是在台灣民眾之所以家人還是跑大醫院的急診近六成這是他們的數字近六成是因為不知道哪裡有診所可看病"},{"start":335.908,"end":353.497,"text":"那26%是無法判斷病情的這個嚴重度那健保署常說台灣有推動了20多年的這個加一群計畫應該能夠在基層為民眾的健康把關但是醫改會也曾經用神秘客的方式抽樣六都 六都加一群整組的電話諮詢發現這是他們的調查數字96%的人無法回答哪邊可以看門診在假日的時候"},{"start":361.281,"end":374.541,"text":"不到25%可以提供任何衛教指導一聽到發燒大概有一半以上都直接接你去大醫院急診那這樣的家喻群真的有能力來重接輕的急症分流的角色嗎這是他們的統計數字"},{"start":377.064,"end":391.956,"text":"所以部長您是第一次聽還是就是讓您參考畢竟他們也做了一些方法學去了解那醫管會有指出UCC成功的關鍵不是只有設點而是事前能不能有人幫民眾做判斷那醫管會執行長林執行長也說"},{"start":393.977,"end":419.327,"text":"世界各國都知道一般人是很難為自己做疾病的嚴重度判斷所以正在民眾立場來看設計配套提供各式各樣的諮詢的一個引導是很重要我們台灣的UCC其實是仿效日本可是部長您知道這件事嗎日本的UCC有它明確的修制條件而且很重要的它非常重視事前的諮詢所以它有不同年齡群都各有諮詢專線這樣可以免跑一趟就是說"},{"start":423.128,"end":439.297,"text":"就避免白跑一趟嘛會不會到將來有打算要規劃類似的一個諮詢系統嗎跟文說明第一個對那個加一計畫裡面確實我們有call center的設計這個我們都有一些這個經費的支持那"},{"start":440.137,"end":467.889,"text":"能不能夠提高他的這個功能讓他因為這個都是老病人我們現在納入加一計畫大概已經超過600萬人600萬人如果能夠把這個機制強化我覺得這個是有幫忙這個我們會來檢討那第二個呢就是對民眾的就醫的指引的建立我們也會去建立起來未來會上線那至於說這個看診的資訊像我們今年的春節期間我們就會有一個專區"},{"start":469.13,"end":475.194,"text":"看診的資訊這九天哪裡可以看讓他很好搜尋那麼未來我們也會去強化在假日期間他可以看診所以我們會去鼓勵這個基層開診哪裡可以看我們會再多監導那我們現在就回到UCC的"},{"start":486.621,"end":503.048,"text":"你的定位究竟是在民眾自行判斷後前往的一個選項呢還是應該建立在專業判斷跟轉介系統之後的服務這是看你覺得如果沒有前端的判斷跟指引那UCC再多設幾個點都不會改變民眾直接跑急診這種行為所以這個台北市醫師職業工會有提出幾項建議那請部長跟署理這邊參考"},{"start":510.191,"end":514.754,"text":"對於現存UCC的應該設置的預期達成目標值如果你經過嘗試還是沒有辦法達成的話應該即時退場止損或是另外尋求其他的這個長指這是他們第一點的建議第二個政府應該考慮設置這個院前的諮詢管道讓民眾可以透過線上或是說電話諮詢剛剛部長有提到是在平台上嗎"},{"start":533.244,"end":549.439,"text":"至少他的問題可能適合你可能適合在UCC獲得結束因此不必直接往這個急診去你要讓他知道嘛讓他放心那第三個如果UCC是政府這個應變災難及重大傷患的一個任性醫療的一環假設你把他列在這樣的一環那應該考慮將來是不是把他列入這個人員都要接受定期的訓練"},{"start":554.423,"end":570.929,"text":"之列並且以社區急救站這樣的概念的標準來打造就是涉及你對UCC的這個定位那我們必須再談一件事就是說那個希望政府能夠正視UCC跟醫院急診之間的巨大資源的鴻溝部長您知道我這句話的意思嗎"},{"start":572.189,"end":588.878,"text":"現在我看署長在點頭這三倍以上的經費差異可以看作說是醫院醫護醫療人員醫護人員勞動力受到高度的壓榨為什麼是說三倍你知道UCC所規範的薪資一天光是人事費大概是12萬元那全國13座你講的是大概156萬元那我們扣掉民眾有部分負擔的部分大概也要支出150萬可是這些人如果一天350人他都往急診去的時候醫學中心急診室"},{"start":598.923,"end":610.857,"text":"健保只支出30到50萬就是這一塊是150萬但是如果他們都往急診區他是50萬所以這個醫院的醫療人員他們就覺得他們事實上是在過去勞動力受到壓榨的程度就從你做參考"},{"start":614.581,"end":639.466,"text":"所以部長就是涉及您對UCC的定位還有目前能夠做改進定位之後當然就有目標還有大家提供的意見如果你要繼續讓它存在然後也有清楚的定位目標是應該讓民眾有能夠有一個指引不然大家還是繼續往那邊衝因為現在平均的量比一家醫院的一天的量都還不足"},{"start":640.787,"end":659.968,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛提到的有一個UCC的點一次假日可以進200人次這個已經高過有一些地區醫院的量所以他看你怎麼去宣導跟設計啦至於剛剛你一直在強調的這個院前諮詢管道這我們會去思考"},{"start":661.35,"end":678.5,"text":"這個我們會有一些就醫指引那甚至未來搭配AI的方式我們像現在健保也開始克服第一線是AI克服然後後線才是真人克服那這樣的設計也許搭配我們的指引未來的這個就醫指引再搭配AI的協助"},{"start":680.221,"end":699.359,"text":"可以一起來思考那麼這個所謂的院前這個諮詢的管道那至於UCC的定位那麼我剛剛提到我們一直在強調這個分級醫療可是在假日的時候或連續假日的時候很明顯的因為這個基層的醫師要休息這個是"},{"start":701.06,"end":722.3,"text":"這個有必要的所以呢讓假日的時候不會說我們平常分級醫療假日不分級醫療通通到醫院去所以UCC是要扮演這樣的角色至於到目前的績效來講確實有需要再提升的地方我們會滾動式的來修正謝謝部長跟署長因為這是美意啦我們就是要繼續進步然後這個進行盤整了解民眾的需要好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":728.232,"end":731.103,"text":"謝謝陳昭芝委員發言接下來請林月琴委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167305","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167305","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88b0d2c112adbd2afc5ca6c4b86dd6b28fba72e0f898bedb4473d0700f6c74c60f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"09:29:09 - 09:39:10","影片長度":"00:10:01","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「面對全球經貿變局挑戰，如何協輔僑臺商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:29:09+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T09:39:10+08:00","duration":601,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":3.5915937500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.87846875,"end":5.0259687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.3590937499999995,"end":8.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.324718750000002,"end":11.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.691593750000003,"end":13.024718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.84721875,"end":58.266593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.51971875,"end":74.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.02346875,"end":88.06784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.94534375,"end":105.80346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.22534375000001,"end":109.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.70159375,"end":113.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.92034375,"end":146.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.72534375,"end":148.26096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.32846875,"end":155.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.38221875000002,"end":224.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.49284375000002,"end":176.56034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.64471875,"end":176.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.63721875000002,"end":292.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.15096875,"end":258.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.70659375,"end":315.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.67784375,"end":318.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.27221875000004,"end":319.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.28471875,"end":327.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.18659375000004,"end":332.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.24909375000004,"end":333.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.09284375000004,"end":333.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.83534375000005,"end":333.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.85221875,"end":333.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.97034375000004,"end":366.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.33659375,"end":371.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.61471875,"end":368.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.58471875000004,"end":416.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.98034375000003,"end":378.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.50596875,"end":439.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.92846875000004,"end":458.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.98034375000003,"end":484.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.76534375000006,"end":510.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.76971875000004,"end":524.0165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.7422187500001,"end":549.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.56534375,"end":564.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.43221875,"end":601.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.0690937500001,"end":566.5078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.34221875,"end":601.42221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.333,"end":7.798,"text":"主席我們有請副委員長副委員長你先喝口水吧副委員長早早安 委員早安好 副委員長 針對今天我們專報的一個主題我們面對全球這個經貿變局的一個挑戰那海外橋界是台灣與國際社會重要的一個橋樑那橋委會在今天的這個報告當中也特別花了"},{"start":31.135,"end":50.115,"text":"這個部分的篇幅提到有關全球地緣政治風險的一個升高還有供應鏈加速重組產業結構調整以及美國川普政府推出的這個關稅和製造業回流等政策我想對台灣來說未來跟美國之間各項領域的一個合作"},{"start":51.055,"end":80.195,"text":"特別關鍵尤其在關稅談判的結果已經明朗之後不管是在經貿上的一個布局策略要加大投資或是在產業上要共同打造非紅供應鏈強化我們自主生產的一個能力更進一步提升台美之間的一個戰略夥伴關係可以預期台美之間的這個連結會更加的緊密也會是接下來僑務工作的一個重點那我們看到您日前代表"},{"start":81.395,"end":105.245,"text":"這個國家這個僑委會第一次出訪美國這個洛杉磯也參與了多場的僑界的活動那我想先請教副委員長的部分是在這次出訪當中您第一次第一線接觸到的這個僑胞和僑商對於台美之間要進一步深化合作有什麼樣的一個期待或擔憂那或是有提出什麼樣的"},{"start":106.888,"end":112.27,"text":"這個對於我們僑委會的需求有嗎謝謝委員謝謝委員的關心委員對我的行程也很關注我大概在上週才從洛杉磯回來那這一次到洛杉磯去出訪主要是參加洛杉磯台商的商會交接的活動那比較特別的是呢洛杉磯的商會是這個全美國大概是台商人數規模最多也是我們在那裡台僑人數最多的一個點"},{"start":132.777,"end":136.16,"text":"那洛杉磯有非常多的我們僑務委員的僑務的榮譽職以及僑胞僑民都在那裡那包括鄰近的現在這個最紅的台積電投資的Arizona鳳凰城也在洛杉磯的這個艱狹的範圍之內所以洛杉磯的住辦還有洛杉磯的當地的文教中心可以說是一個我們海外僑務工作的重點"},{"start":155.519,"end":157.861,"text":"那這一次的商會的這個交接當中呢還有很多北美的台商商會的會長都同時來參加這場盛會所以呢我在那裡一次有見到了很多在美國的台商橋台商界的代表們"},{"start":171.229,"end":174.611,"text":"那正好在我飛機起飛的前一天我們台美關稅的結果公布了所以等於是飛機落地的時候當地的橋台商都已經得知這個訊息他們也都很期待來自台灣的第一手消息跟台灣目前的反應是什麼那當地的橋台商其實對這個問題掌握度因為他們畢竟是在美國第一線同時也鄰近這個半導體現在要開發的這個重鎮就是Arizona的鳳凰城"},{"start":199.506,"end":209.353,"text":"所以他們其實是非常敏銳的而且是很正面樂觀以對那同時呢我覺得他們也已經在心態上都已經做好了相對的準備甚至對於未來可能台灣這邊會有的投資項目或者是長期的佈局計劃他們其實都非常非常的關切"},{"start":218.419,"end":223.461,"text":"那也要跟委員報告的是說在台美關稅協定的結果出來之後其實在這個美國的橋台商是非常樂見台美的經貿還有在半導體高科技界的交流能夠繼續的深化協助他們拓展市場因為這整個供應鏈的延伸跟擴展未來除了是台灣國力的延伸之外連在美國當地的橋台商他們都有機會可以受惠"},{"start":245.808,"end":260.856,"text":"所以我們在這個當地的布局當時也聽到了在我在美國的時候就聽到外交部也公布這個消息說可能未來在Arizona今年有計劃要設立新的辦公室那我想在這個部分呢我們都很積極政府的腳步一定會隨著這個"},{"start":263.898,"end":268.38,"text":"我們國人的需要就是我們產業界的需要那看有什麼可以協助的部分關於他們的未來如果說過去工作在生活上子女的教育上或者是在這個一些資訊的連結上應該會有很大的需求那在產業的串聯的部分呢我想各部會還有當地的橋台商們他們都願意提供很大的協助那這當中其實機會是非常多的那到底要怎麼樣佈局怎麼樣來去發揮"},{"start":293.792,"end":309.976,"text":"其實是看各個企業他們自己有自己的這個規劃那政府的角度呢就是盡最大的力量然後先傾聽然後告訴他們最新最及時也是最正確的政府的政策方向那希望能夠團結橋台商們共同的來往這個深化經貿發展共榮然後共這個共好的這個境界一起來努力"},{"start":319.292,"end":334.048,"text":"好 這聽起來這個我們目前已經做好許多的準備那這也是我們期待的然後那也希望說我們剛剛副委員長所說的這個內容正向的部分我們應該是積極的來做謝謝 謝謝拜託委員多支持"},{"start":334.508,"end":349.163,"text":"那今天在這個報告當中也特別提到隨著這個供應鏈的重組那台廠跟台商的部分轉向新興地區投資佈局的趨勢例如我們台灣的這個台積電赴美國日本德國等地設廠"},{"start":350.464,"end":371.239,"text":"他們的員工和眷屬則會形成所謂的這個新僑民而這些高科技這個人才所吸加待卷出國打拼可能會衍生子女教育和生活適應的相關需求那政府也要在可行的這個範圍內盡可能來協助提供相對應的這個部分那譬如我們看到外交部"},{"start":371.899,"end":386.25,"text":"正在和美國交涉陳儒剛剛副委員長講有可能是要在鳳凰城設置這個辦事處來增加人力投入並且在正式設處之前會先在當地設點派專人提供"},{"start":386.73,"end":415.84,"text":"一戰式的服務配合產業的策略來提供業者相應的服務這部分也需要我們僑委會積極的來投入協助我想請問副委員長在報告當中我們強調要善用海外的僑務資源支援新興地區的台灣投資的廠商僑委會在這部分是否會有具體的一個規劃能夠擴大協助這些科技新僑民的相關需求"},{"start":416.667,"end":420.29,"text":"報告委員我們有的橋委會其實資源跟預算都很有限但是我們在這個最大的可能範圍之內我們還是努力的去這個因應僑胞們的需求那跟委員報告的是在這個鳳凰城Arizona那裡外派的是這個台籍員工子女大部分都是高科技業的"},{"start":434.961,"end":438.943,"text":"所以他們的特色就是年輕然後高學歷然後同時他們對科技這個產品跟科技工具的應用也非常的純熟所以因應這樣子的新的趨勢僑委會在當地其實已經提前佈局了其實我們在目前已經成立了鳳凰城台灣半導體供應商協會這個是關於僑台商的部分已經有成立了"},{"start":457.352,"end":483.992,"text":"然后我们呢其实在桥校的部分也已经协助当地成立桥校了在凤凰城的部分现在呢有凤凰城中华中文学校跟凤凰城的华人基督教会中文学校已经有两所备查的桥校那这两个学校呢其实都是开设正体的华文课程也就是那个台湾的这个繁体课程都是符合我们的这个台桥商子女的需要那那个桥委会呢"},{"start":484.833,"end":510.328,"text":"本会自己编转的中文的正体字的教材在过去两年就是112年到114年已经正两校1510册教材在德国的萨克森德勒斯登这个部分其实我们也成立了一所华语学校是登记的桥校在日本的九州熊本其实也成立了一所台湾语文教室已经向这个桥委会备查"},{"start":511.048,"end":515.829,"text":"也就是說其實在這個子女的教育還有未來TCML是針對當地的外國人學中文而且是學台灣的正體中文的部分我們也陸續在推動這一次我到洛杉磯區當地去其實他們都很有興趣那也很努力的想要在籌組當中那我想TCML的腳步也會跟隨著這個橋校"},{"start":532.954,"end":537.295,"text":"之後就陸陸續續的來設立那商會的組織其實透過洛杉磯商會它原本就有規模再繼續來串聯我們就是希望能夠結合當地原本的橋台商還有社團的規模來輔導而且協助我們這些新橋民們那同時把他們納入我們整個橋委會海外的橋台商以及橋民的平台"},{"start":554.901,"end":566.51,"text":"的一部分 那未來我們的資訊連結暢通那平常的交流密切之後能夠提供更多的服務 也能夠更能夠傾聽他們的需求好 謝謝副委員長非常詳細的說明那我們對這個喬商喬敏的資源不單單只是政策而已而是要看到實際的這個資源跟服務那也請我們喬委會務必要與外交部還有我們經濟部等相關部會做好這個橫向的這個聯繫"},{"start":583.183,"end":597.801,"text":"我們傳統喬瑟的資源跟新興科技移民的需求對接起來讓我們在外打拚的這些台灣人形成更大的更大更強的這個力量我想這也是我們政府面對全球這個變局應該要有的一個積極作為好 謝謝主委長 以上 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167303","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167303","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88ef1c464b69b330f552fd623850d83d5bba72e0f898bedb44e168438cab24f24f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"09:15:40 - 09:18:00","影片長度":"00:02:20","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:15:40+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T09:18:00+08:00","duration":140,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.83221875,"end":34.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.877843750000004,"end":36.987218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.30784375,"end":39.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.142843750000004,"end":41.931593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.336593750000006,"end":44.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.002843750000004,"end":45.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.79596875,"end":50.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.212843750000005,"end":51.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.00596875,"end":79.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.17034375,"end":121.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.41284375000001,"end":131.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.41909375,"end":140.97096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.844,"end":20.196,"text":"民主民進黨黨團有鑒於財政收支分法修改後我們國民年金法當中的第36條就應該予以調整根據憲法第10章中央與地方制分權第107條明定財政是由中央來主導"},{"start":21.397,"end":39.074,"text":"然而108條規定有關於社會福利等各種的社會救助是由中央立法或交由地方來執行因此我們很清楚財化法本應該是由中央來立法做分配然而在去年財化法接連遭到"},{"start":40.182,"end":67.76,"text":"一個亂財政的修法那麼造成中央跟地方的財政失衡然而這是國會多數通過的那麼基於權責一致當國家的收入已經大幅的交給地方了那麼根據憲法中央跟地方分權的精神地方就應該來負擔原本由中央在國民年金法舉例來說36條它就是由中央來負擔"},{"start":68.681,"end":84.911,"text":"但是呢在經過這樣的修法之後我們認為有必要針對第36條將地方的財政分為五級其中第一級的部分對於國民年金的負擔應該各付一半第二三級的部分至少地方要負擔30%財力相對較弱的第四級跟第五級負擔15%這樣子才能夠落實錢權一致"},{"start":92.495,"end":120.854,"text":"避免肥地方受中央而國民年金法照顧的都是我們的人民最弱勢的人民需要由中央跟地方共同協力來照顧因此我們提出的修法以36條為核心將原本由中央負擔全部國民年金負擔的這樣的一個條文轉化為中央跟地方共同來承擔我們還是要再強調一次中華民國憲法當中第十章中央跟地方之分權是牢不可破"},{"start":121.474,"end":131.224,"text":"然而在財化法經過修改之後我們認為有必要進一步的去規範地方跟中央在國民福利社會安全制度上應有之責任以上好謝謝鍾嘉賓委員說明接下來請衛福部時部長就本"}]}},{"id":"167302","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167302","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88872c9c0635676eea52fd623850d83d5bba72e0f898bedb44b927b96357d7ed705ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:13:33 - 09:15:33","影片長度":"00:02:00","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:13:33+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T09:15:33+08:00","duration":120,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":113.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.81471875000001,"end":115.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.57409375,"end":122.32409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.87,"end":26.432,"text":"本案這個臺灣民眾黨黨團針對國民年金法的第15條跟第50條有關配偶連帶繳納保險費及裁罰規定提出制度上是必要的檢討跟修正憲法法人在釋字第696號已經很明確的指出如果僅僅因為有沒有婚姻關係就讓人民承受較重的這個經濟負擔甚至加諸額外的這個不利益這樣的差別大於等同是對婚姻的懲罰是違反憲法保障婚姻家庭制度的本"},{"start":27.052,"end":31.596,"text":"這個本意故婚姻關係之有無所形成之差別大於是否違反憲法第七條的原則應該受到比較嚴格的一個審查但是我們看到國民年金法裡面在第十五條的規定只有婚姻關係夫妻之間就互付連帶繳納這個責任進一步在第五十條還有裁罰的規定反過來說如果沒有婚姻關係就不會承擔同樣的這個法律後果"},{"start":49.272,"end":54.233,"text":"那這樣的差別並不是基於他的所得或實際能力而是單純因為設計上已經引發懲罰婚姻的這個爭議換句話說這個制度在無意之間讓進入婚姻關係的人反而負擔更高的法律風險跟經濟壓力那臺灣民眾黨認為這是值得公部門重新再檢討的問題所以也在附屬預算跟年度預算上有多次提出檢討必要那整個從社會發展來看現在家庭的型態跟角色的分工也都不一樣了即使女性的勞參率大概也維持在五成以上"},{"start":79.199,"end":85.521,"text":"那社會對於經濟責任跟保險義務也在越來越強調個人的責任跟個人的保障在這樣背景上繼續以配偶的身份作為連帶責任的裁罰依據已經逐漸跟當前強調的性平跟個人自主的政策產生落差因此本黨團在這屆立法院的第二會議就率先提出國民認定法修法草案希望能夠讓保險責任回歸到個人的本身避免國家制度在沒有正當理由的情況下對婚姻關係"},{"start":107.068,"end":113.11,"text":"加諸額外的不利益也讓整體制度更符合憲法平等原則跟社會的現實好 以上說明 謝謝好 謝謝陳昭資委員說明接下來請鍾嘉斌委員代表民進黨黨團說明"}]}},{"id":"167304","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167304","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a8806acb3387abd5f725ca6c4b86dd6b28fba72e0f898bedb44536dac32b4bbbdb75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"09:20:17 - 09:28:50","影片長度":"00:08:33","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「面對全球經貿變局挑戰，如何協輔僑臺商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T09:20:17+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T09:28:50+08:00","duration":513,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-4-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.9422187500000001,"end":4.755968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.484718750000003,"end":30.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.43971875,"end":56.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.016593750000006,"end":38.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.237218750000004,"end":87.84846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.01721875000001,"end":89.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.46846875,"end":89.50221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.50221875000001,"end":102.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.10971875,"end":90.34596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.91784375,"end":106.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.93409375,"end":114.19034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.37596875000001,"end":122.18909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.39159375000001,"end":139.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.45221875000001,"end":145.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.32471875000002,"end":150.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.79221875000002,"end":155.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.46659375000002,"end":163.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.19096875000002,"end":169.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.17346875,"end":169.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.45596875,"end":170.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.47284375,"end":175.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.50221875,"end":171.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.90221875,"end":183.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.98659375,"end":177.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.34909375,"end":179.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.37784375,"end":187.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.44534375,"end":183.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.68096875,"end":188.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.79909375000003,"end":195.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.06034375000002,"end":191.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.11471875,"end":198.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.19846875000002,"end":197.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.85221875000002,"end":212.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.34784375,"end":225.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.44721875000002,"end":234.17159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.17159375000003,"end":234.28971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.34034375000002,"end":269.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.88284375,"end":246.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.63784375,"end":248.98784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.37159375000002,"end":252.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.94409375000004,"end":261.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.03159375,"end":266.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.14909375,"end":272.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.40221875000003,"end":298.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.58346875,"end":304.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.33784375000005,"end":355.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.97534375000004,"end":368.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.18846875,"end":374.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.96471875000003,"end":371.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.22971875,"end":380.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.39784375000005,"end":380.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.93346875000003,"end":384.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.33409375,"end":382.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.34221875000003,"end":394.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.19346875,"end":391.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.26471875000004,"end":405.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.14471875000004,"end":432.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.14471875000004,"end":452.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.01096875,"end":452.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.71971875,"end":512.1028437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.17034375,"end":512.6765937499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.296,"end":2.918,"text":"謝謝主席 有請副委員長請副委員長"},{"start":12.866,"end":24.571,"text":"副委員長早安今天是這個預算會期的最後一個委員會可是所有的預算都沒有審議包含了我們僑委會115年的預算所以我想請教副委員長剛剛您在報告的時候有提到僑委會為了因應美國對等關稅的衝擊所以在114年9月開辦了美國對等關稅保證專案"},{"start":38.277,"end":56.152,"text":"那針對據書美時機且受到影響導致營業額減少10%的橋台上提供最高30%美元的貸款保證保證成數是九成最長的是六年那還有呢就是由橋委會補貼最長三年保證手續費跟最長"},{"start":57.293,"end":78.15,"text":"半年部分的這個利息另外我還有看到你們有提到就是說為了因泰國南部跟越南中南部因為好雨淹水所以造成了橋台上的有受到一些嚴重的一些衝擊所以呢我們也有提供這個災害重建的這個專案保證那我想請教如果是說這個預算沒過的話針對這個"},{"start":81.613,"end":87.016,"text":"橋台商的這個貸款的這些保證有沒有受到這個影響請問副委員長謝謝謝謝委員的關心的確在橋台商的部分海外信保基金的專案一向都是這個橋台商非常關心的重點那尤其是台商在海外拓展的時候難免都會有資金的需求那有的時候呢需要這個母國就是台灣這邊可以給他一些信用保證讓他在"},{"start":110.987,"end":113.528,"text":"這個僑居國做生意的這個開拓這個初期的腳步能夠踏得更穩健那僑委會目前因為海外信保基金他本身的這個規模就不是很大那因應長期多年以來海外的僑台商不斷的反映所以我們在115年度的總預算其實有編列"},{"start":132.692,"end":135.793,"text":"要增加我們的這個基金的規模那才能夠因應未來尤其是這個美國關稅的專案可能會有的增加的這個業務量那跟委員報告到目前為止因為這個總預算沒有通過的關係所以我們新的這個這個增資的這個水位當然是沒有辦法能夠"},{"start":155.799,"end":158.641,"text":"現在沒有辦法補齊到目前為止從去年9月底開辦的美國對等關稅專案到1月23號為止到目前為止有6件目前有6件目前累計的受信金額是166萬美元"},{"start":176.01,"end":178.732,"text":"116萬美元那累計的保證金額到149萬美元那目前的規模還能夠因應目前還能夠因應 可是不曉得後續還有沒有受影響的部分"},{"start":195.565,"end":212.293,"text":"去年度就是114年我们的这个呃业务里面呢获得银行捐款是有新台币7000多万的入账所以我们目前还能够因应可是这个对补的就是我们这个预算行政院预算要补齐的部分这部分就还没有进来哦所以呃"},{"start":213.433,"end":233.689,"text":"短期之內是如此但是如果說預算沒有通過的話未來這個基金就很難再進一步的擴大提供融資保證服務那對於橋台商的全球的事業佈局一定是會有影響的那對於我們以後橋台商的這個服務的量能我們也會受限都會有影響"},{"start":234.569,"end":249.501,"text":"因為我有看到我們在115年度總預算我們有編列了一筆這個捐助海外信用保證基金配合新南向政策增資計畫這個部分有一億五百萬元這算是新興的部分如果這個預算沒有過的話就沒有了就算說後面如果說我們真的這個預算規模"},{"start":258.388,"end":272.216,"text":"不足的時候其實你就沒有辦法後續就沒有辦法進行所以其實對這個橋台商的影響其實是非常大的所以說這個在野黨卡一算其實也就卡到了我們海外橋台商的權益委員們多多幫忙因為其實海外的橋台商這樣的反應已經持續很多年了那我們的這個"},{"start":278.639,"end":282.261,"text":"資金的增資的計劃其實也不是只有一年我們的金額其實都不大那我們要分很多年就是僑委會的預算其實也蠻辛苦的分很多年的時間逐步的來擴增那也拜託各位委員大院的委員們都能夠支持喔因為其實很多海外的僑台商僑民還有相關的這個就是關注這個議題的人大家其實都非常非常的關心這個進展"},{"start":304.475,"end":331.546,"text":"OK 除了這個呢我們這些專案受到影響之外再來我有看到我們僑委會115年的這個預算如果看工作計畫來講的話其實我們所有的這個預算工作計畫的這個預算是全面在增加的都比114年度增加了不少尤其是僑民僑團聯繫接待計僑教中心服務原先的2億多增加到3億4千多"},{"start":331.866,"end":354.899,"text":"那還有喬生回國升學季喬青培訓研習本來是八億多增加到十一億九千多我想請問一下這兩個計畫說實在它增加的幅度是比較高的那對這兩個計畫我想請教一下我們原先想要增加的內容是什麼如果是說這個預算沒過的話影響到的是什麼請問副委員長"},{"start":356.372,"end":364.94,"text":"謝謝委員的關心這個是工作計畫的項目的部分那增加最大的類別其實是在僑民僑團的聯繫接待跟僑教中心的服務以及這個僑生回國升學僑親培訓的部分那跟委員報告在僑生的部分其實我們主要是要因應這個"},{"start":375.77,"end":380.453,"text":"國家的外來人才的留用跟培育的計畫所以我們會擴大的引入僑生然後希望僑生在台灣就學之後還能夠穩定下來就業那充實台灣的人力的需求那所以這個部分我們增加了很多這個僑生的這個人數"},{"start":396.761,"end":408.389,"text":"那主要會用在僑生的學費以及他們的這個身負補助的部分所以這個部分如果資金沒有到位預算沒有到位的話也可能馬上會受到影響因為僑生的學費也照很多僑生都是經濟有困難的他們相當仰賴這個學費的補助所以學費補助如果沒有到位的話馬上就會受影響那在這個僑民僑團的聯繫的這個部分主要是今年會開始第二期的我們的"},{"start":425.04,"end":428.842,"text":"華語文的深耕教育的計劃那這個計劃呢其實會配合我們海外的華語文的教學以及TCML在全球的布點設置那在這個橋團跟橋教中心的部分也會提供一些空間的升級所以看起來這個營業比較多但其實我們的橋民跟橋團的數量一直都在增加當中所以我們服務的對象一直都在增加人數一直在增加相對應的我們的預算需求也會上升"},{"start":452.834,"end":460.619,"text":"所以說其實這兩個都是本期長期以來一直很關心的一個就是說華語文中心的這個設立像過去的話我也請教了這個橋委會很多次我們覺得說這個應該是要擴大來做辦理所以看起來橋委會是有這個計畫可是如果這個預算卡關其實有很多其實是沒有辦法來擴大來做辦理的"},{"start":472.987,"end":489.223,"text":"那另外還有這個攬財計畫在僑生回國升學這個部分那當然這部分我也跟過去跟這個徐嘉欣委員長討論了非常非常的多那我們也看到就是說其實我們是有心要來做就是希望說就是我們的僑生能夠回國來升學那再來呢來補足我們人才的這個不足"},{"start":493.627,"end":511.514,"text":"可是如果說這個計畫呢因為這個預算沒有審你看起來呢這整個計畫新增的計畫呢都會卡關所以在這裡再次的呼籲在野黨喔真的是真的這個會期都已經要結束了我們竟然一毛錢都沒有審真的是阻礙了國家整個的發展好 以上謝謝"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}