{"total":{"value":2,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2026-03-12"],"total_page":1,"ivods":[{"id":"17267","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17267","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc26cd868c117db088bfa593f95562ba49157d0edf07c12ea66f344ad4f1754b945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-03-12T14:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：有鑑於行政院院長卓榮泰自就任以來，面對本院三讀通過之「立法院組織法」、「衛星廣播電視法」、「政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例」及提升軍警權益、立法院助理費法制化等法案，屢屢展現「不副署、不公布、不執行」之怠惰態度。在賴清德總統與卓榮泰院長主導下，行政權恣意否決代表民意之立法權，將自身推向不受監督之絕對權力，破壞權力分立與制衡之民主原則，造就台灣民主史之巨大危機。依「中華民國憲法」，三讀通過之法律若遇窒礙難行，行政院依法僅能提出覆議；覆議未獲通過即應依法執行，此乃憲政運作基本秩序。然卓榮泰院長竟一再跨越憲法紅線，逕行以「不副署」之名，行實質否決法律之實。當行政權可無視國會決議、拒絕依法行事，此等行徑若非獨裁，何謂獨裁？卓榮泰院長任內覆議「八戰八敗」，卻不願正視民意反撲。覆議失敗後未回歸制度，反淪為不執行、不作為、不守法之「三無閣揆」，甘願作為架空立法權之打手，將台灣推向全面綠色威權。賴清德總統日前邀集五院院長茶敘倡議團結，實為虛情假意之政治秀；其口說捍衛憲法卻視法律為無物，實為台灣民主最卑劣的背叛者。台灣民眾黨黨團堅守憲政正軌，要求政府依法行政、依法執行，此舉不只為單一法律或族群，更為守住台灣民主得來不易之制度底線。爰建請院會作成決議：「為維護國會尊嚴、捍衛國家憲政體制，對行政院院長卓榮泰提出嚴厲之譴責案，正告賴清德總統與卓榮泰院長應立即停止違法濫權『不副署、不公布、不執行』之行徑，回歸憲政運作之基本秩序。」是否有當？請公決案。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-03-12","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-03-12T14:22:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-12T14:40:00+08:00","duration":1080,"影片長度":"00:18:00","委員發言時間":"14:22:00 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看起來今天與會的各位都已經到了所以我們就開始今天的協商會議今天協商是由於台灣民眾黨黨團建起院會做成決議為維護國會尊嚴 捍衛國家憲政體制對行政院院長卓榮泰提出嚴厲之譴責案"},{"start":99.531,"end":126.236,"text":"正告賴慶德總統與卓榮泰院長應立即停止違法濫權不附屬不公佈不執行之行徑回歸憲政運作之基本秩序是否有當請公決案本案經115年3月6號第五會期第二次院會決議交付黨團協商並由臺灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商想要進行我們先介紹一些到場的委員第一位是李沛翔李委員"},{"start":128.246,"end":141.077,"text":"然後這個台灣民眾黨這邊是陳慶榮陳委員 陳昭芝陳委員然後這邊是民進黨是范玉范委員跟陳玉玉陳委員那我再介紹一下這個行政院這邊的一些代表我們先介紹行政院副部長 楊昌強藍副部長然後行政院的法規會有邱明堂參事林品宇資義"},{"start":156.67,"end":180.755,"text":"然後人權與轉型正義處廖怡如副處長還有許家元科長教育科學文化處王一芳科長人事行政總處張秋元副人事長廖政委專門委員曾益群副處長好歡迎大家那我們先請這個台灣民主黨針對這個提案進行說明"},{"start":188.381,"end":211.786,"text":"我們很遺憾啦我們民眾黨黨團今天必須責無旁貸的提出這個譴責案而且是他們是邀請陳昭芝來說明我想大家這個我也希望這個今天出席的是副秘書長我也希望是說你能夠了解我們的這個堅持跟我們的用心"},{"start":214.4,"end":229.681,"text":"這個譴責案核心的問題就一個行政院院長拒絕依憲法所定的程序去面對立法院已經三讀通過的法律這嚴重破壞了憲政體制跟權力分立原則我想中學生以上大概都知道這個是基本的一個憲政"},{"start":230.342,"end":252.332,"text":"的精神 憲法是台灣人民跟國家簽訂的契約 本質上是如此所以沒有一個人可以高過憲法這是人民跟政府 執政政府的一個契約 大家都要照顧一下當然根據憲法跟憲刑制度 立法院三讀通過的法律如果行政院認為有治案難行 那我們有制度性的救濟啊你就是提出復議 復議如果"},{"start":254.873,"end":276.028,"text":"沒有獲得立法院的支持 那行政機關就是得依法來執行這個是我們最基本的憲政體制運作的一個基本的秩序 也是最基本的一個尊重但是卓院長從就任以來 尤其這一屆 第十一屆 我們真的看了太多了面對立法院已經三讀通過的多項法案 包括最近的立法院組織法衛廣法 政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產的處理條例 以及"},{"start":281.932,"end":295.011,"text":"涉及提升軍警的權益 立法院助理非法 法治化等法案多次出現不附屬 不公佈 不積極執行的情形這樣的做法就是行政權獨大"},{"start":297.054,"end":315.065,"text":"那行政院獨大你就是意圖消滅立法院的功能啊那跪黨過去還說五院太多只要三院現在只能是過而不及啦現在難道只剩下行政院嗎立法院的功能是什麼我想你們在野獸大家在努力能夠執政也都非常清楚"},{"start":315.905,"end":343.027,"text":"那非常嚴重的行政機關過去已經對國會通過的這個法律案提出複議但是複議結果遭到否決的時候在複議沒通過的時候理應要回歸憲法的秩序依然要執行這個法律但是我們看到的都不是而持續用各種方式來拖延消極處理甚至拒絕附屬這是對行政體制最大的挑戰那如果行政機關在複議失敗後還是選擇不執行法律那麼立法院"},{"start":344.109,"end":346.902,"text":"三讀通過還有什麼意義嗎 叫我們都不上班嗎"},{"start":349.273,"end":376.303,"text":"如果行政權獨大自己去決定哪些法律要做哪些法律擱置我真的建議各位大概修法就把立法院廢掉好了我們不要立法院就行政院一全這樣就好一個全因此本黨提出這個譴責案再次提醒行政院必須回應回到憲政體制的內來運作如果認為法律有問題就提出復議可以提出修法但不能用拖延或拒絕執行的方式來面對"},{"start":378.764,"end":401.82,"text":"國會的最新名義那本黨團希望透過這個譴責案表達立法維護立法院維護自己自身的職權我們不要當心水小偷所以我必須履行我們立法院的職權形式希望行政院能夠維持憲政秩序立場要求行政院著院長立即停止不附屬、不公佈、不執行的做法回到依法行政"},{"start":402.941,"end":422.978,"text":"那我想再講一些上面談的都是一些法治問題啦今日我參加很多民間團體的這個活動總是有人對我這位在野黨的立委說你們不要再擋局局剛剛我們提到一部分的這個不要再擋總預算案這些人口氣有的很差啦那我想院長非常清楚包括就是副秘書長"},{"start":424.795,"end":448.201,"text":"如果今天朝野議會我想民進黨的攻擊力道跟回擊只會更加強烈執政黨當然有媒體的一些優勢在社群資源優勢所以成功的洗腦部分的綠營支持者在一連串程序當中只挑了一個重點一個點來抨擊大家都清楚左翼雙向為什麼沒有啟動"},{"start":449.361,"end":467.872,"text":"因為行政院為依法編列預算我們三讀通過的東西法律你都視而不見這是最根本的原因所以我們今天回到這個譴責案也是噪音於這個根本原因根本原因不去看它然後看那個後來造成的結果這樣子是公平嗎"},{"start":469.213,"end":477.615,"text":"如果說你不依照法邊列算你叫我們如何審查你叫我這位我自己認為我非常認真也許我能力不夠好但我非常認真在執行我的這個我該做的事情那你看這個軍購剛剛那麼龐大你原本如果沒有細項的這些數字跟這個說明那你寄望我們空白授權嗎我必須說在我還沒有進入立法院前我擔任衛生署衛福部的這個行政公共行政的這個"},{"start":497.961,"end":502.209,"text":"公共工程委員會的委員我一天到晚在審這個預算即便五十萬、一百萬的預算"},{"start":504.502,"end":530.952,"text":"我都會很努力的用專業去審查而且很認真的寫下很具體的這個評論其實有時候那個審查費才幾百塊錢那我想上週民進黨也史無前例29位立委出席但是我們還是很認真我們做了一些重要的這個提案包括在這個左暈雙暗還沒有完全處理之前我們趕快做了一些新興的計劃案我們也是希望能夠就是說對於民眾最迫切需要的部分能夠趕快來做包括TPAS"},{"start":533.834,"end":547.735,"text":"總之無論如何從法例請每個官員來看我們今天責無旁貸的我們必須提出這個譴責案所以我們也想讓大家知道真正怠惰的真的是立法院嗎真正阻擋法案"},{"start":549.127,"end":558.95,"text":"包括特別條例來進行這個能夠來執行的真的是立法院嗎?還是行政院本身?所以我希望行政院能夠好好的這個省思以上發言"},{"start":565.409,"end":585.177,"text":"我想先談這其實是一個責任政治我們民主政治它的制度就很多學者說這是半總統制我們選出了怎麼樣的一個政府的話當然就是以它的政見主張來施行反對黨當然可以做監督但是現在反對黨"},{"start":586.257,"end":602.787,"text":"就是回頭來變成好像他是執政黨強迫就是政府去做政府並不認同不支持的事情其實這就一個民主政治全世界走到哪裡都一樣他違反了責任政治的精神那回頭來看因為剛剛民眾黨陳委員講了很多程序上就是等等我要講的事情我們先看看實質的議題不附屬的爭議是什麼"},{"start":612.793,"end":632.267,"text":"就三個法第一個黨產條例黨產條例它是轉型正義的倒退更嚴重的是把國產拿來圖利特定的組織救國團跟復聯會這個我想剛剛民眾黨陳委員講到還沒有進立法院之前應該也很支持這個轉型正義黨產條例"},{"start":634.028,"end":651.494,"text":"他就違反了就是就是轉型制的精神是倒退而且圖利特定組織那這個釋字第793號早就說過了不當黨產回歸國家不只是核限和回歸民主政治的公平競爭台灣才能成為真正的民主國家"},{"start":652.314,"end":679.544,"text":"第二個衛星廣播電視法它也是為個案解套的特權修法你如果去看它的法條它大幅削弱NCC未來對所有本來是為了特定個案後來會對未來對所有的電視台對新聞台的一個監管的能力等於是整個專業把關被棄守那也破壞了台灣的媒體環境那其實未來是非常的危險的第三個立法院組織法"},{"start":680.424,"end":703.767,"text":"他也是他可能會讓現行的刑法制裁出現漏洞更嚴重的是社會大眾希望立法院不要再有詐領助理費的事情可是立法委員卻自己修法讓未來詐領助理費更難受到貪污罪的追溯我想這個也非常的違反了民主政治的精神等於是圖利立法機關"},{"start":704.648,"end":727.734,"text":"那這三個法除了實質的內容有問題之外它在立法院完全沒有經過委員會討論都是淨附二讀我想在座的兩個反對黨你們也都沒有參與到委員會的專業討論會經討論辯論淨附二讀在民主程序上大家也不能接受而且這三個法還有另外一個共通點"},{"start":728.354,"end":749.857,"text":"都是干預訴訟中的司法救國團有訴訟衛星廣播電視法也是訴訟中立法院組織法也非常多的個案在訴訟中今天透過立法干預司法我想它也違反了我們的三權分立的精神這是為什麼行政院長決定不附屬"},{"start":750.919,"end":778.276,"text":"那最後我講不附屬的憲法的權利那剛剛大家都把不附屬講成好像是一個不該使用的我們也知道我們有非常多的法條經過委會其實通過了非常非常多大家有共識的譬如說我們審查中的暫權法衛環委會也都知道只要是正常審查正常的扶國立民行政院長附屬過非常非常多的法案這個就不用說給大家看那這三個"},{"start":780.177,"end":797.299,"text":"不附屬既然是憲法第37條規定總統公佈法律及發布命令前須經行政院長附屬方可執行那當然行政院可以不附屬那立法院對抗的武器是什麼依照憲法就是發動倒閣"},{"start":799.001,"end":825.883,"text":"那非常多的法律學者我就不一一署名了就是包含他們講過對行政院長的附屬內閣總理的附屬行政權的附屬能夠理解就是他是實質的一個權利那這個部分如果他未來做不到的事情給予他實質的權利讓他附屬或不附屬那也包含就是立法院若強行通過違反憲法第七十條精神的法案"},{"start":826.423,"end":850.103,"text":"行政院可以主張該法案因未獲行政部門同意而無效進而降緩附屬以上就是政大法律系、中央大學法律系不同學者的解釋政治學者也有談到行政院長當然是可以做實質的權利包含東吳法律學院的特聘教授提到附屬權"},{"start":851.344,"end":874.943,"text":"他讓行政院長有足夠的底牌做政治上的折衝與協調那過去在德國在其他的國家都有這樣子的一個制度的行使那我要再次重申如果是服國立民的法案而且過程中正常的程序那當然過去行政院長附屬過的就是非常非常的多那今天這少數我剛講的黨產條例衛星廣播電視法立法院組織法"},{"start":879.707,"end":901.673,"text":"他不僅是干預司法而且在民主程序上淨附二讀就是完全沒有經過專業的討論實質的內容傷害我們民主政治的基本原理那基於這些理由我們民進黨團非常的支持行政院長不附屬這三法以上好 感謝范委員是不是請中央國務黨理委這邊"},{"start":904.266,"end":906.709,"text":"代表國民黨黨團支持民眾黨的立場 以上"},{"start":916.405,"end":942.584,"text":"剛才各個黨團所表達的意見我們都有非常謙虛的聆聽不過貴院在審理很多的法案裡面其實院長有附屬的其實是多數啦那有少數不附屬剛才執政黨黨團的幹部有說得非常清楚那我想大家是一個理性的溝通的過程那我希望這個案子就我們行政機關而言希望能夠收回成命 以上"},{"start":945.336,"end":952.28,"text":"好 看起來各黨團都已經發表自己的意見了那不曉得大家還有沒有其他的意見"},{"start":954.79,"end":982.086,"text":"好 我想今天應該就會是沒有共識啦因為聽起來三黨的發言都是如此不過剛剛針對陳昭斯委員的發言我還是有一些意見要陳述我想既然是黨團協商會留下的記錄我要講所謂的執政黨有媒體優勢這件事情到底所為何來民眾黨屢次在協商當中都會創造出非常多的謠言平行時空的空間如果要論所謂的媒體優勢要不要去網路上看看有多少所謂的藍白側翼每天都在攻擊民進黨的"},{"start":983.027,"end":1005.96,"text":"委員民進黨的執政政府我要說媒體優勢執政黨有這件事情到底是所為何來如果陳昭思委員真心覺得是因為媒體的論述空間讓在野黨很多委員在很多議題上不得不轉向支持民意那我要說難道是你們錯判民意嗎這個部分我覺得我還是要再次表態那當然對於今天的主題的協商我要再次強調民進黨團絕對不支持"},{"start":1010.273,"end":1025.745,"text":"好 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我們現在好像已經一點半了啦所以我們這個協商的時間已借啦所以我們是不是就開始今天的這個相關的協商議程好 我們現在開始協商的會議啦所以在這個協商前我先介紹到場的委員跟機關代表啦那我就做順序啦國民黨的林佩祥 林委員然後台灣民進黨的劉初冰 劉委員然後台灣民進黨的陳冠廷 陳委員"},{"start":1778.755,"end":1804.707,"text":"然後台灣民主黨的陳慶榮陳委員然後民進黨的陳平水委員還有民進黨的范雲范委員好然後再來是機關的代表第一位是國防部副部長徐思簡副部長再來是參事石文龍參事然後規劃司的司長黃文啟司長然後主計局的局長謝啟賢局長然後新聞處的處長喬福俊"},{"start":1809.179,"end":1837.185,"text":"處長好再來是建軍文化處的處長翁宇恆處長然後事務處處長跟孫進德處長好歡迎好報告這個黨團協會會議我們現在開始協商本院台灣民眾黨建請院會做成下列的決議本院寫秉持國家安全優先強力捍衛領土完整的原則若美方發架書明文公佈的脫勢"},{"start":1840.646,"end":1858.539,"text":"標槍飛彈續構及M109A7自走炮等三項對美軍構案簽約其成建制之前尚未完成相關預算之審議資授權行政院先行與美方簽署發價書LOA以保障國家利益國家政權利益行政院予以簽署後"},{"start":1859.42,"end":1874.69,"text":"立刻向立法院提出完整相關武器交貨期程報告回歸審議常軌旅行行政院對於預算編列前後完整說明的義務不得再以國家安全為名規避民主審議與理性監督請公決案"},{"start":1875.902,"end":1889.901,"text":"本案經115年3月6日立法院第十一屆第五會期第二次院會決議交付黨團協商並由台灣民眾黨負責召集協商協商會議請各黨團指派代表參加在案"},{"start":1891.002,"end":1911.447,"text":"所以今天由我本席代表台灣民眾黨來主持這個黨團協商會議那今天我們協商請出席的黨員代表表示意見的時候呢各黨團依序人流發言每位委員發言的時間呢我們在列為是五分鐘五分鐘那我們現在就開始進行協商那我們首先先提那個提案的黨團代表說明請這個台灣民眾黨"},{"start":1917.318,"end":1929.643,"text":"好 主席國防部的官員還有其他黨的同仁大家好民眾黨這邊最重要的要在這個黨團協商當中呈現三個議題第一個部分是說我們是基於國家利益帶來政黨利益來做進行的這個協商那我們下面的幾個重點包括是第一個目前的現狀是看到三個兩個黨跟行政院的版本已經進入到了副委"},{"start":1947.229,"end":1973.945,"text":"這個內容當中呢 比較了三個版本之後呢那民眾黨的這個部分呢 最重要的是 它的是採購的話是最透明然後呢 包括是把已經在美國戰爭部所說的提出來的這些項目呢 都有包括進去那更重要的是還包括一些 我們在這個四千億的這個預算當中呢除了剛剛前面的那部分呢 包括是三千 大概兩百億之外呢我們還有包括可能未來會有"},{"start":1975.186,"end":1987.512,"text":"涉及到的預算我們變得大概811億在這個裡面這部分就很清楚的呈現出來是這種透明度讓大家可以知道那第二部分我們的特色就是在於說我們的監督機制是完備包括是說"},{"start":1990.734,"end":1994.755,"text":"就是說對於未來的就是未來在如果預算通過之後就是條例通過之後在編預算之前我們就要求說要針對過去的還沒有完就是說他已經有就是已經採購了但是還沒有到的這些品項包括的是長城的這個重型的魚雷啦還包括F16AB型的戰機的"},{"start":2016.62,"end":2039.737,"text":"這個性能提升還包括新式戰機的採購等等呢都應該要做一個報告那當然我們這個編列的部分也是大概一年的部分再去進行那第三個就是財政紀律那財政紀律的部分特別是強調是說應該要去重視到說他呢應該也要了解到是如果有些部分是屬於現在特別預算需求當然是沒有辦法就是並這樣去"},{"start":2042.118,"end":2059.025,"text":"那如果有些部分是屬於年度預算的部分也應該把它編入到年度預算去尤其是原定的115年的行政院的國防預算當中已經從去年的6千多億到9千多億那如果每年都有在增加的情況之下這些部分都是應該一起來去看的"},{"start":2060.405,"end":2065.627,"text":"包括我們重點當中也包括是做協商的就是說在這個實行的這個期間特別預算的特別條例的實行期間當中呢他的這個關於社福的預算不能低於前一年的情況好那最後我們再講到說我們現在已經了解到的是因為有美國已經跟我們講了說現在有大概有進來了三項的八價出張後來到"},{"start":2084.152,"end":2099.956,"text":"發駕書這部分 包括最新的海馬斯也已經出現那我們在 台灣民眾黨也已經是授權也就是不知道今天為什麼協商的內容就在說也就是說要賦予行政院就授權行政院能夠在就已經來了發駕書的部分我們就是也願意就請行政院就授權行政院去簽署"},{"start":2108.238,"end":2126.612,"text":"這個部分也是要跟大家講 這樣就可以進行第三個部分的重點就是說這個簽署之後 包括昨天國防部長也到本黨團來做說明的時候我們也提出來說 就是說因為包括我們現任的台灣民眾黨的目前在任的八位委員其實都當初沒有參加秘密會議"},{"start":2128.713,"end":2150.628,"text":"所以我們在想說在國防外交委員會的秘密會議當中所以可能有必要包括說因為原來在行政院版本當中的第四條的五六七項的內容事實上是不太清楚的就是並沒有像前面的一二三四項一二三四項那麼的清楚所以我們希望說在五六七項的內容當中能夠更清楚讓我們未來也可以就在真的在"},{"start":2151.849,"end":2171.789,"text":"在審議條款的時候就可以更清楚的去知道說怎麼樣的讓這個透明度更多然後幫他在秘密會議的方式去進行所以這樣的話應該也是可以達到所以重點是在說我們的國防預算我們民眾黨的歷史就是在說國防安全非常的重要那我們當然希望說民主監督座尤其是作為立法院裡面的國會的議員"},{"start":2174.472,"end":2183.118,"text":"要把這個監督機制做好那當然也需要做到是因為長遠的子孫的打算呢國財政的紀律也是必須要嚴守的那這是本黨的一個立場 謝謝"},{"start":2184.602,"end":2204.201,"text":"好 感謝這個台灣民眾黨這個黨團代表劉淑萍委員的這個發言那在這個下一個黨團代表發言之前我再補充介紹一下有兩位黃仁黃委員還有劉許廷劉委員好 歡迎那接下來就是請出席的這個黨團代表是要民進黨先還是國民黨好 那有請"},{"start":2212.43,"end":2217.713,"text":"我想首先民眾黨召開政黨協商我想這代表大家其實跨黨派一起都非常的關心我們的國安今天其實主要就是說我們要處理緊急授權因為發架書的議題"},{"start":2229.219,"end":2247.171,"text":"我想先表示一下其實這個不是第一次過去也有這樣的狀況因為其實高經的武器的購買雖然我並不是這方面的專家但也非常了解在很多國會外交的過程中都有體會到它是一個賣方市場"},{"start":2247.991,"end":2253.395,"text":"就是它有一個騎乘而且是要排隊的所以我們也看到包含美國就是非常多的人都希望說台灣能夠在這個關鍵時刻能夠就不對稱戰力跟強化我們的韌性的部分能夠不要錯失這個機會所以我想發架書先授權過去是有這個例子"},{"start":2271.346,"end":2297.607,"text":"那再來的話我也想提到就是民眾黨的這個提案文裡面後面提到的民主審議理性監督財政紀律我想這部分我們應該都是蠻支持的而且既有的程序中也應該都包含這個部分那至於就是原本最早我們聽到是三項軍購發價書那後來就是又知道第四項然後這兩天又知道第五項所以"},{"start":2298.728,"end":2313.239,"text":"民眾黨已經有把增加的第四項放進去就是這個海馬仕多管火箭飛彈系統等那另外那項第五項要不要放入等等我也想請就是我們國防部跟國安會這邊是不是能夠就是國防部這裡表達意見讓我們大家了解因為我想這個部分關於就是大家既然都三黨坐下來一起"},{"start":2323.946,"end":2351.363,"text":"強化國安然後願意處理這個緊急授權特別是不要錯失這個發架書的時候那到底我們是應該照民眾黨這個版本就是3加1還是應該加2這個部分請國防部做說明那我先表達就是我們今天能夠坐下來一起為國安的話那緊急處理這個部分那我們是就好好的討論這個細項的部分但另外最後補充說明就其實這幾個武器就我的了解"},{"start":2351.923,"end":2378.456,"text":"其實國民黨跟民主黨也是贊成的而且過去都有採購的潛力好 感謝這個範圍的發言接下來是不是請國民黨 中國國民黨國民黨提出今天的一個協商我要表達有三個重點這個重點裡面通常是在1.25兆之後的爭論問題的核心"},{"start":2381.912,"end":2398.656,"text":"首先要說清楚的是沒有人不支持國防所以爭論的焦點是有兩點第一個就是國家的資源有限如何才能利用有限的資源讓國防效力最大第二"},{"start":2399.44,"end":2425.78,"text":"是如何有效監督國防採購避免再發生在室內裝潢公司採購的一個火藥事件所以不要再說什麼配合中共指示弱化國防這是很嚴重的一個指控那如果真的沒有任何配合中共弱化國防請執政黨拿出政績本是絕對支持嚴辦那第二個是採購的武器不明確"},{"start":2427.382,"end":2455.904,"text":"監督是國會的天子本席認為今天的協商就是要確保在維持戰力和避免發生弊端兼取得平衡但是現在政府的態度就是要壓縮國會的監督空間例如院版條例羅列出七項採購項目但是實際要買的武器到底是什麼國防部一直沒有說清楚"},{"start":2456.644,"end":2481.135,"text":"那這就是要國會控排的一個授權我是要這樣規避立法院的監督那本席再舉一個例子這110年的通過的海空戰力提升計畫採購特別條例草案那就是明確要採購的武器是雄二雄三飛彈劍翔無人機"},{"start":2485.17,"end":2506.359,"text":"這個駝江集建等所以當時審查相對的順利國會也知道想要監督的項目這才是民族國家該有的一個正常的運作那第三是否正正符合不對稱作戰需求我國建金正朝向不對稱"},{"start":2507.611,"end":2525.37,"text":"作戰的轉型但是以驗版第四條第七款的為例就是本席面前提到的空白措檢到時候採購的武器是不是符合不對稱作戰我們完全無法預測所以本席認為這樣的一個問題有幾列有幾條 以上"},{"start":2530.974,"end":2534.536,"text":"主席 各位委員大家好我們先就發酵素的這個事情我們先跟大家做個報告"},{"start":2552.449,"end":2575.391,"text":"美國對外的軍售,它不是以發價書作為一個期限的約定它的法律效率在於知會國會後目前我們是適用30天的這個規定,也就是準北約準北約的規定30天內,國會議員如果沒有提出反對意見那這個案子就自動生效"},{"start":2576.272,"end":2584.748,"text":"也就是說這個案子就是已經是一個成了的案子那接下來發架書會什麼時候到它中間會有一段作業時間"},{"start":2586.704,"end":2614.883,"text":"那這涉及到美國政府跟主合約商之間他們談判的一個基本條件跟後續產製的一個期程還有涉及的相關主合約次合約的這些簽約的這個項目所以他會給我們一個時間那所以各位看到的是歷年來發價書來的時間並不會有一個很特定的時間他來的時間前後不一"},{"start":2615.624,"end":2616.271,"text":"那這一次"},{"start":2618.154,"end":2646.853,"text":"我們到目前為止的事項在2月跟3月就是12月17號美東時間12月17號知會完國會之後在2月份跟3月份拿到發駕書這在過往的歷史來看的話僅次於當年的F16V Block拐動的這個案子他發駕書拿到的時間算是非常非常快的那我們其他正常的案子拿到發駕書的時間正常來說大概是6到8個月"},{"start":2647.861,"end":2673.044,"text":"所以這個要特別跟委員做報告那正因為我們先期已經跟美方做過充分的協調所以我們也預期第五項的ALTIS 700跟ALTIS 600、ISR型的這個案子也很快的就會拿到發家書那當然我們目前急切要處理的是這四項尤其是海馬市的這一項"},{"start":2674.462,"end":2687.22,"text":"海馬斯的這一項他是寫死了3月26號屆起而且不能展延那如果展延的話後果是我們其中購買的重要的彈藥會被取消"},{"start":2688.359,"end":2706.434,"text":"那這個部分影響到整個武器裝備的性能所以我們今天當然如果能夠獲得各位委員支持先行處理如果說今天獲得委員的支持能夠同意我們武案能夠授權簽署那當然是最好那如果說"},{"start":2707.875,"end":2733.573,"text":"大家覺得還是一定要拿到發價書再簽署那就是到時候我們等到近期我們拿到發價書之後我們國防部也非常樂意的在過來這邊再來做一次報告那另外一點是剛剛委員提到那個特別預算的這個部分我們在這邊也要向各位委員報告我們"},{"start":2735.411,"end":2761.514,"text":"到目前為止就是國防部本身夜館的三個特別預算第一個是F16V不讓拐動第二個是海空戰力提升那第三個是這個因為我個人是這三個案子的夜館主管那我要跟大家報告一下其實這三個案子有點不同第一個F16V不讓拐動的時候它的名字其實是沒有名字它叫新式戰機採購特別條例"},{"start":2763.854,"end":2787.675,"text":"那之所以如此的原因是因為當初我們在發架書需求信欄提出的時候不會在上面寫上F16V Block 拐動因為這是由美國安援機關它依據我們提出來的能力需求會再去跟相關的單位討論完之後找出適合我們的選項所以它在這個地方會保留彈性第二個海空戰力提升這個案子"},{"start":2789.465,"end":2807.334,"text":"他的十個案子全部都是持續案轉特別預算所以他其實原本就已經列在公開預算裡面的項目所以他會有每一項每一項非常確切的名字那這個部分當然會有所不同那針對這一次的這個部分因為涉及到"},{"start":2810.316,"end":2833.473,"text":"還有美方沒有智慧國會以及未來要走商購的這個項目未來要走商購的項目在我們之前提出來沒有辦法寫得那麼細的原因是因為商購到時候我們給的是一個規格然後採取公開招標的方式由國內所有合格的廠商來進行競標"},{"start":2835.535,"end":2863.57,"text":"那當然我們如果一旦寫上去某一個特定的東西的名稱很容易構成採購法裡面的紙商紙廠這個是我們必須要國防部必須要按照我們的法令去做那當然有關監督的部分國防部在這邊除了感謝各位委員的指教只要在符合各項法律的範圍然後不至於影響到國防部執行"},{"start":2864.831,"end":2890.489,"text":"造成嚴重摯愛的項目本部非常樂意接受各位委員增加的任何的監督項目以及必要的報告的舉動我們會善盡我們國防部應該有盡的責任謝謝各位委員好 感謝這個國防部的這個說明那現在有一份這個台灣民眾有提出的修正動議那請議事委員宣讀一下並把這個條文分送各位委員"},{"start":2891.792,"end":2917.171,"text":"修正動議 台灣民眾黨黨團提案處原提案中若美方發架書明文公佈之託是標槍飛彈續購及M109A7自走炮等三項對美軍國案簽約期程戒制之前尚會完成相關預算之審議修正五為若美方發架書明文公佈之託是標槍飛彈續購M109A7自走炮及"},{"start":2920.473,"end":2943.147,"text":"海馬仕多管火箭飛彈系統事項等事項對免軍購案簽約期程戒制之前尚未完成相關預算之審議外其餘同源提案內容提案人 臺灣民眾黨黨團 王安祥委員宣讀完畢好 那這邊是先請臺灣民眾黨的那個代表先跟大家做一下說明"},{"start":2946.605,"end":2967.603,"text":"主席、各位委員、我們國安部的代表今天台灣民眾黨秉持著國家安全不能等國會監督不能少國家利益絕對大於政黨利益所以我們才提出這樣的一個提案"},{"start":2968.724,"end":2975.787,"text":"針對我們美國軍售有關之前的前三項這樣的一個發酵素戒氣的問題我們提出這樣的一個授權的提案今天我們也看到我們包括各黨應該對國家的安全都是非常重視"},{"start":2993.234,"end":3016.752,"text":"但是我們剛剛也強調我們花的錢一定要買得到買得到的東西 交貨的期程也一定要收得到貨這是我們一貫的一個原則那今天我們也針對第四項就是我們的海馬式多管火箭這個項目"},{"start":3020.314,"end":3028.077,"text":"國防部這邊也表達確定發價數也明確的提供所以我們也來提一個修正同意案因為對我們來講對台灣民眾黨來講支持國防這個是我們希望能夠來為國家的安全盡一份我們應該做的一個責任"},{"start":3048.632,"end":3063.852,"text":"那監督的部分 我想我們各黨都一樣我們台灣民眾黨也充實監督所以在支持跟監督這兩個共同的一個目標之下我們確定的事項"},{"start":3065.033,"end":3074.676,"text":"就原提案三項今天我們提修正中意把海馬斯多管火箭的系統我們也加入就等於四項我們就提出這樣一個四項的修正案"},{"start":3083.439,"end":3101.448,"text":"那也是我們在野黨我們台灣民眾黨展現的最大誠意啦最大誠意為了國家的安全我們願意來立即的提出這樣的修正動議案那這樣的動議案我們也期待透過我們今天的協商啊那能夠有一個結果那另外我們剛剛詹貴士市長這邊有提到"},{"start":3112.276,"end":3125.922,"text":"所謂的第五項就是我們ARTIS 700型的無人機跟ARTIS 600 ISR這兩型的無人機目前發酵室"},{"start":3128.738,"end":3152.169,"text":"並沒有還沒有還沒有收到嘛對不對 並沒有還沒收到那剛剛從詹貴司的一個發言一個態度我們台灣民眾黨這邊也表達了一個一個主張一個態度在沒有發酵書發布之前我們剛剛國防部所提的無人機的部分"},{"start":3153.129,"end":3159.534,"text":"我們是不予授權的在這邊就很明確的表達剛剛我們市長也講這個整個發酵室這個最"},{"start":3165.993,"end":3184.874,"text":"時間啊 沒辦法一個估算最多可能六到八個月也有可能那像前三項海馬斯 速度很快這樣的一個過程所以我們站在監督的立場那也考量到國家安全不能等"},{"start":3185.535,"end":3194.722,"text":"那已經既定已有的發價書我們也展現誠意把海馬斯也納入修正綜藝案但是堅決的表達無人機 阿迪斯的兩款行銷的部分這個不予支持以上做明確的表達 謝謝好 感謝陳組長那其他黨團有沒有 陳委員"},{"start":3213.953,"end":3242.167,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們針對修正動議來看一下在民進黨這邊有幾個建議啦也想要請在野黨的委員可以參考一下然後也需要國防部幫我們說明第一個是關於這個修正動議前面其實有非常多對於行政單位的指控啦那我們真的是覺得有所不妥既然我們今天是實質上如同黃委員剛剛所說的我們都贊成實質的監督我們也贊成公開的討論但是過去的這些事情尤其是上面這一段寫法我是不是"},{"start":3243.147,"end":3269.795,"text":"有機會請在野黨委員我們討論一下可以做修正在整個發架書的內容之前前面那一大段那第二個是現在民眾黨團的修正動力版本是四項嘛聽起來在野黨委員應該都是支持的我們非常感謝但是我們其實也還是想要善意的提醒喔因為我們知道即將來的發架書第五項馬上就要來了我相信在野黨委員都非常清楚那有沒有機會在今天協商的時候我們一併完成也許我們可以讓國防部做相關期程的說明"},{"start":3271.175,"end":3286.301,"text":"那後續的採購跟相關的工作會進行得更順利這邊也想要拜託在野黨委員的支持那第五項的部分我想大家手上應該都非常清楚相關資料也許待會可以請國防部說明再來就是最後一段再講到"},{"start":3288.703,"end":3310.196,"text":"關於交貨期程必須要由行政院與預算編列前後完整到立法院來做說明我不確定這個所謂交貨期程到立法院來做說明國防部這邊你們過去的做法或是在這一次的做法有沒有至愛難行的部分也可不可以請你們跟我們說明因為整個修正動議如果等一下大家都有共識簽下去之後還包含交貨期程的說明你們"},{"start":3313.058,"end":3337.846,"text":"如果都認同的話你們也要到立法院來做報告那這個部分是不是也可以請國防部說明那至於執政黨這邊對於在野黨委員的請求就是說包含修改上面的文字然後發架書的內容現在是四項有沒有機會增加到第五項就是那個反裝甲型無人機飛彈系統的部分然後最後一個關於交貨期程的說明這邊也想要請國防部說明好 以上謝謝主席"},{"start":3338.206,"end":3356.507,"text":"好 感謝陳委員陳委員民進黨這邊要提書面的那個相關修正動議的文件嗎還是謝謝主席的善意如果有機會我們是很願意提修正動議但是就是聽聽看在黨委員還是我們要直接修改也可以那這邊我們可以等一下再討論但看起來國民黨這邊有話要說 謝謝好 任委員"},{"start":3359.458,"end":3384.404,"text":"謝謝主席這我們簡單釐清幾件事就好了因為第一個這我想剛剛兩個黨團也都有提到了到底是四個案子還是五個案子那關鍵還是說到底第五案的發架數你到底什麼時候可以拿到有沒有一個具體的期程嘛因為講白了在野黨的立場就是監督嘛整個軍購的過程如果越透明大家可以跟社會大眾明確的交代他的審議過程會是迅速的這我想我們已經講過非常多次了"},{"start":3384.924,"end":3408.534,"text":"那第二個是這一次的這樣子之所以會提這個議案是因為國防部這邊有表達有時間壓力嘛就我的本席的了解應該是3月24號之前要完成簽約的程序那國防部現在也提了所謂的展言那換言之這個議案能不能順利的趕快通過跟你的展言是否順利有沒有絕對的關係時間上具體的壓力是多大這我都希望國防部可以清楚的說明因為這四色我們今天要花多少時間協商嘛"},{"start":3408.954,"end":3429.771,"text":"因為如果今天可以達成共識今天如果真的有很大的時間壓力大家就真的要達成共識我們可能要花比較長的時間今天要協商出一個共識才能夠趕快的讓這個授權案可以盡快的來過關嘛所以到底這個授權的案子跟實際上你的簽約你的展言會有什麼樣的一些實際上的影響也希望國防部做一下補充說明 以上感謝梁委員是不是請國防部做一下說明"},{"start":3433.251,"end":3452.741,"text":"感謝各位的指教,我們先講第一段有關於第五案的這個部分的確目前並沒有一個確切的時程在上個禮拜我們跟美方最後一次的研討會裡面他們只說最近就會提供這個發價書那當然就技術層面而言"},{"start":3455.1,"end":3479.726,"text":"因為他的條件都不一樣就像前面的四份發價書他要求的條件不同所以我們在沒有看到第五份發價書之前我們是不會知道他要求的條件比如說他那個校期是到什麼時間點要哪到才知道那這個部分前面四項的部分並不是3月24號前面的三項他是3月15號"},{"start":3481.687,"end":3504.753,"text":"到期 這是為什麼我們當初會部長會特別提出來說請求大院能夠授權我們簽署因為只剩幾天的時間我們前面的三項就必須要簽署至於我們提提出去展言的部分是我親自致函美國防安和局局長那到目前為止"},{"start":3506.343,"end":3523.024,"text":"他們雖然口頭說同意展言但是我沒有收到他白紙黑字的同意函所以我們還是只能把他當3月15號這個要特別跟各位委員說明因為我們所有的官方"},{"start":3524.085,"end":3537.693,"text":"官方的這個文書往來都不需要看到對方官員也就是副局長以上簽署的那個信我們才視為他是真的那因為他們雖然口頭同意沒有拿到發料書之前如果說"},{"start":3540.589,"end":3564.797,"text":"他拿到的這個正式給我們信函的嫌疑超過的那個時間到時候就會產生執行上面的爭議所以我們還是把時間放在3月15號至於那個海馬士是最新來的他的效期是3月26號而且直接寫明不得展言他已經直接寫了你不能演因為他中間要去談的就是彈藥的問題所以他已經寫明白了"},{"start":3566.257,"end":3592.363,"text":"那剛剛有關於陳委員所提到的這個立刻向立法院提出完整的武器交貨期程這個部分我要在這邊跟各位委員對我的意思是這不是我提的是民眾黨的修正動議要求你們的對我知道 抱歉我說您針對這一段問到我們有沒有這個執行制裁上面的這個問題對 這當然是民眾黨寫到裡面了那這個部分"},{"start":3595.612,"end":3605.749,"text":"我要跟各位做個解釋我們發架書上面的確會有個時間交運的時間也就是它會有一個執行期程"},{"start":3607.159,"end":3631.038,"text":"可是發價書的交運期程不等於實際的交運期程因為實際的交運期程還是要等到美方的安援機關跟組合約商簽完約之後他們在簽約的過程會去確定哪幾個年度可以交多少東西然後哪幾個年度這個會到第幾個年度的時候會交完"},{"start":3631.658,"end":3651.57,"text":"所以這個部分會產生資訊上面的落差那如果說大院一定要我們在簽署之後向大院來進行期程的報告那我們只能就發架書上面我們通常定義為草案期程來做報告"},{"start":3655.908,"end":3661.792,"text":"我在這裡我們為了台灣的國家安全為了國防這個其實我們大家一起在努力我在這裡還是要跟我們民進黨我們陳委員這邊來提出一點小小的一個"},{"start":3683.266,"end":3702.166,"text":"我不能講抗議但是我必須要表達因為這個提案我們本來就是本以事實包括我們一直在講的1.25兆不能空白授權就是我們在野黨也一直在主張的"},{"start":3703.047,"end":3722.626,"text":"那這個提案的文字我們應該要請我們民進黨也要尊重我們台灣民眾黨的一個提案不應該在文字裡面來這樣的協商要求我們做修正我想民進黨"},{"start":3725.253,"end":3734.68,"text":"民進黨是執政黨像這樣的發架書啊這麼迫切民進黨自己本身沒有提案今天這個黨"},{"start":3737.612,"end":3763.168,"text":"為了台灣的國防安全我們來提案那針對提案的文字我們在這邊政黨協商那來提出我們的一個提案文字的一個修正或調整我覺得真的非常不妥啦應該要尊重我們的一個提案那民進黨如果你有想法"},{"start":3763.968,"end":3770.383,"text":"你們也可以提案啊不應該在這邊就我們的提案要求做文字的任何修正那"},{"start":3772.895,"end":3797.462,"text":"本黨的一個堅持本黨的堅持剛剛我已經講了就是已經確認了事項我們就以我們的修正動力我們來這樣的主張就誠如剛剛講我想台灣跟美國都是民主國家今天任何的一個軍購項目通知美國國會之後沒有異議"},{"start":3798.562,"end":3821.468,"text":"然後來自動生效然後來發酵素這樣的程序我們也了解那我們在台灣我們中華民國我們立法院的民主程序我們也要遵守所以我們在這邊我們還是針對我們的修正綜藝能夠來做這樣的一個主張也請主席能夠來採視"},{"start":3823.666,"end":3839.772,"text":"好 感謝陳總統這個說明那現在看起來剛剛都講一輪了嘛那我們是不是好像3加1大家是有應該是有共識吧就是現在我們3加1這個對 因為好像剛剛看起來國防部第五項也沒有一個比較"},{"start":3840.792,"end":3865.292,"text":"甚至可以預測 也不能預測啦我想現在以現在的氛圍我想就是隨時延續不行 我最後一次發言好 謝謝在野黨的善意3加1也許是大家都有共識再次感謝在野黨委員但是也謝謝國防部剛剛的提醒就是新的部分因為未知如果再一次新的發價單來我們要再一次進入這個循環或者是協商"},{"start":3865.772,"end":3865.932,"text":"菲薇"},{"start":3887.818,"end":3911.103,"text":"也想跟民眾黨的委員溝通一下因為據我的了解其實今天最重要的共識就是剛剛的那個三加一嘛能夠授權這個發架書而且就是3月15號很可能不一定有展延這個我想謝謝大家跨黨派支持那我們本來是想說既然核心的決議其實是一致的話那前面的文字也許大家可以協調一下那這樣簽署之後"},{"start":3912.603,"end":3939.514,"text":"就是因為這個部分一定是各黨會有不同的立場那因為對民運黨來講黨團來講的話如果我們對前面的陳述文字沒有辦法同意的話其實會造成困難那我是覺得核心的決議大家都有共識是最重要的是不是能夠有一個同意就是說前面的文字大家再花一點時間就是協調一下譬如說我們休息個五分鐘看看"},{"start":3940.654,"end":3947.959,"text":"我們現在手上有的版本就是民進黨修正動議的那個版本我們是不是就基於在那個修正版本動議的版本來做處理"},{"start":3950.7,"end":3977.912,"text":"我補充一下因為大概整個就大家都知道這個立法院的提案這個核心就是它實際上產生的效果那今天大家在討論的效果第一個就是到底是三項還是四項還是五項對不對那大家就四項先走嘛那第二個是剛剛這個陳培育委員也有提的就是行政院後面要做報告這件事你會不會拿你執行那當然國防部剛剛講就是說你很難就是掛保證就一定會來畢竟過去也有交貨延遲的狀況但是我們來報告這件事應該是不影響"},{"start":3978.732,"end":4005.186,"text":"你來跟大家說明到底我方政府所掌握的可以公開的的一些資訊是什麼讓我們的國人有更清楚的認知基礎我想這對未來的軍購都是有幫助的所以我覺得這是可以執行的那麼整個議案的實際效果第一個授權第二個來報告都可以達成的情況下我覺得文字上我們就不要再拘泥降速度才快啦因為大家有時間壓力好不好就希望大家可以互相理解啦以上好那現在這個就是我們有這個修正隊這個版本"},{"start":4008.12,"end":4026.825,"text":"那謝謝幾位委員那主席那現在看起來是我們三黨都有共識了就是今天能夠把這四項能夠來去通過那大家都知道這個時間的緊迫性那其實我們也同意就是說盡快的因為這個時間的緊迫性是非常高的那我們是希望說"},{"start":4028.045,"end":4055.548,"text":"這一次的授權我們未來可以用這樣子的模式在Otis 700發酵書拿到手後我們也就是比照辦理那就這樣子很順暢的把一些因為三黨其實只有這些項目在上面那這樣以後我們推薦的速度就很快那其實大家在民眾上面對我們的這個支持也會增加其實不僅是民進黨其實兩在野黨也是好 感謝陳委員那看起來我覺得啦這個大家都有共識啦好"},{"start":4058.5,"end":4075.009,"text":"針對這個議題我最後一次發言我還是建議我們休息五分鐘一下處理一下那個就是文字上能不能寫條的部分也許這樣子馬上就解決了好嗎 我在這邊還是尊重啦我覺得就像我們剛剛委員所提的"},{"start":4076.05,"end":4098.744,"text":"我們達到我們今天為台灣國防的這樣的一個制度的進度安全我們會做清楚其材質啦這個是台灣民眾黨的提案就是我們的提案就不要再糾結這樣的一個文字文字上的一個修正啦清楚其材質另外一個人好像要發言"},{"start":4101.301,"end":4116.6,"text":"主席 各位委員陳委員講的就是表示說這個案子這樣處理之後以後就變成一個成功的先例也就是說未來如果軍購案有發架書LOA要是出來有正式LOA那我們在"},{"start":4117.12,"end":4133.313,"text":"我們在審理的時候針對FMS我們就應該這樣好好去審理所以說既然這是會變成一個成功的先例的話我會認為說就不要再拘於小節把這個事情在實質上的內容還有整個的過程把它圓滿結束那這樣子針對說未來整個軍購案尤其是對美國的FMS"},{"start":4140.118,"end":4157.035,"text":"會有更有效率一點畢竟來說我們知道FMS是國與國之間是一定會交貨的而且過去的FMS也是比較不會有爭議性的那在這個前提之下既然有時間時效性我們現在很清楚的知道四項發價書已經出來了"},{"start":4160.083,"end":4186.488,"text":"那我們就試著來去配合國防部盡快把它做成來增強國防以上各位簡單那就是說我們現在聽到說其實我們兩三黨之間都有一些共識那有一些善意出來那我們只是說小小的希望這個修正文字裡面如果說還是這麼就是跟過去一樣這麼這種對抗性這麼強的話好像是不太必要是不是可以休息休息五分鐘來這個來討論一下"},{"start":4188.468,"end":4205.345,"text":"我們歡迎一下陳昭志陳委員剛剛來 這個現在是這樣我覺得這個其實是蠻高度重視當然休息的時候 可是就是說會不會因為這樣因為民進黨看到另外兩位兩個短堂他們也是 整個立場也蠻確定的"},{"start":4208.588,"end":4220.718,"text":"這個會不會等一下剛剛國防部已經說了15號蠻critical的我們是不是不要再去爭執一些文字上的東西從這邊的觀點來看我想也許我們5分鐘可以省掉我們繼續討論20分鐘是不是5分鐘讓大家稍微交換一下目前的意見好 那就休息5分鐘那我們5分鐘回來"},{"start":4237.005,"end":4246.169,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":4262.634,"end":4262.894,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":4277.995,"end":4287.176,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":4289.658,"end":4290.178,"text":"主席"},{"start":4333.061,"end":4334.483,"text":"好 走走走"},{"start":4365.384,"end":4379.343,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":4386.459,"end":4388.18,"text":"謝謝大家收看"},{"start":4412.91,"end":4433.456,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":4440.794,"end":4467.466,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":4507.586,"end":4508.807,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":4526.937,"end":4527.157,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":4537.099,"end":4544.947,"text":"好 各位我們這個休息時間的時間已見喔是不是大家回到位置來 不曉得理事長這邊 理事長黨團這邊OK 是不是 好 那我們就"},{"start":4553.683,"end":4575.077,"text":"好我們這個本日協商的過程發言內容都錄一錄一記錄記錄所以我們現在就是照台灣民眾黨的那個提案通過那接下來就請大家這個各黨團在這個我們協商的這個結論來進行主席等一下我們還沒歸位再給我們一分鐘一分鐘"},{"start":4593.854,"end":4615.909,"text":"好 因為我們等一下還有一個 還有一個案子所以我們是不是 看起來大家沒有什麼太大的意見那我們就照台灣民眾黨這個提案通過就台灣民眾黨修正動議通過 就是3加1這個版本我們再等個那個 一下下"},{"start":4629.46,"end":4640.128,"text":"可不可以等一下同樣的協商那個下一個關於不附三個不附署案的譴責案的協商還是在這邊嘛對不對對好可不可以再給我們一下下時間一下下"},{"start":4650.58,"end":4675.241,"text":"我們還是要先感謝再檔委員的善意啦但是說實話因為很多事實跟尤其是剛劉書斌委員有講到關於機密會議的部分確實他們之前有召開相關機密會議但是確實新報到的委員是還沒有機會參加到那但是後續相關內容的說明也非常謝謝剛劉許廷委員在休息的時候有說我們之後第五項發家署有機會就釋出善意"},{"start":4677.708,"end":4696.462,"text":"好 那我們還是要公開說明 再次感謝在黨委員我們就簽這個協議 沒有問題好 所以我們就用臺灣民眾黨的修正動議通過然後請各位黨團簽名那我們是為了時效 所以本來希望中性一點的版本但是我想為了國家時效好 非常謝謝大家一起支持國防"},{"start":4874.031,"end":4878.704,"text":"這個為了爭取時效我們是不是就稍微大家準備一下我們就要開始囉"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}