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所以借盡了美伊衝突他們之間的狀況請國安部再把它列入做參考那剛剛前面很多委員都提到這個IBCS我想這個對我們來說這個CIS的integration非常非常重要因為我們現在有很多這個"},{"start":225.565,"end":241,"text":"來自不同的 我們重獲的時候來自很多包括我們最近要跟美國買一些武器所以基本上整合上對我們來說非常非常重要因為我們這個系統裡面可能有一些美國的系統也有一些我們自治的系統不知道這個整合上會不會有什麼樣的困難"},{"start":243.204,"end":270.558,"text":"剛剛所提就是我在前面跟所有委員報告當中確實戰場管理系統如果去整合美制的防空武器以及台灣自治的防空武器這是我們未來努力的一個方向那我要再次說明就是說IBCS當然它是一個美軍現在陸軍現行的一個戰場管理系統這是我們目前的評估的選項之一那也有其他的戰場管理系統在做相關的研討跟磋商"},{"start":271.058,"end":298.304,"text":"所以後續會有一個比較距離因為我們專案辦公室目前也在研究相關的戰場管理系統做相關的研究跟評估這是其中一個選項所以因為國外好像這個系統整合上其實都不是非常非常OK包括丹麥他們最近其實還沒有確認我想我們現在要構思整個國防的整合的系統我希望國防部這件事情尤其這一次的美伊的衝突基本上也把這些事情列入參考至於它的這個效益"},{"start":299.344,"end":320.176,"text":"我也想要知道一下是不是可以國防部有一些進一步的資訊可不可以提供我們的辦公室做一些參考好那另外這個無人機我想大家今天都提到很多或是我們過去在講這個整個軍購的部分那我們先不要講新的我們先講過去的這個部分MQ-9P這個部分這個交貨因為這是114年的預算不曉得現在這個狀況怎麼樣交貨的狀況"},{"start":327.185,"end":351.351,"text":"這個MQ-9整個專案目前都是按計畫來進行,那預計在今年第三季首兩架會回到臺灣?是,所以按照原來的期程是沒有問題的?是,完全按照計畫好,那非常好,那基本上除了我們軍購的部分,我們其實國內尤其像中科院,我們有做一些開發無人機防禦系統"},{"start":352.831,"end":370.01,"text":"那這個過去好像有一些狀況那個在上一個會期好像也講到這個延宕的事情好像是根據這個因為鏡頭的關係是不是是不是請國防部做一下說明這個問題是不是已經解決了是不是可以如期的做一些這個研發或重獲我請中院院長"},{"start":372.308,"end":383.328,"text":"報委員沒有錯在初期執行的時候的確因為惡霧戰爭的關係我們的關鍵的進口組件從國外進口造成了延宕現在整個這個部分全部都是百分之百在國內自治"},{"start":384.508,"end":406.9,"text":"是,所以已經改成就是連那個鏡頭的部分都我們自己來做因為上次我也跟著國防委員那時候到美國去其實我們在這個,美方也跟我們講了很多供應鏈供應的問題那我想在我們這個武器的籌貨上那可能還是要把這些因素考慮進去讓我們這個軍工的部分和武器的部分如期能夠拿到"},{"start":408.715,"end":424.953,"text":"好 那接下來就是海關號的部分我想這個國人也非常非常的關心這個 這個所以我們現在做很多測試嘛現在是這個潛航測試不曉得現在進度狀況怎麼樣是不是可以簡單跟我們大家說一下"},{"start":425.974,"end":441.56,"text":"委員好 海軍參謀長報告目前已經完成潛航第六次海測目前在持續按照後續的測像跟相關的準備現在正在緊如密鼓在準備會按照一個安全的條件來做後續的測試 以上報告"},{"start":442.16,"end":459.725,"text":"對 所以現在原來的相關的一些行程還在進行中那因為這個好像有一些delay所以會產生一些計法的狀況不曉得現在計法的狀況可能是到最後交界的時候才會處理那不曉得現在的狀況是怎麼樣我想國人你都非常的關心"},{"start":461.024,"end":481.446,"text":"跟委員報告相關的計法的部分因為依照合約我們會在交件之後才會依照整個delay的整個時間我們來做一月的計法但是由於這個計法的這個基準我們有些精進空間現在已經在跟台穿做一些平台再看看後面的依照合約的計法我們怎麼來修正跟改正這個目前正在作業"},{"start":482.507,"end":499.281,"text":"所以有現在比較確定的狀況嗎?比如說大概我們要怎麼樣處理這件事情?包括哪些功能或是哪些項目?剛剛您說的,有進一步的資訊嗎?目前沒有,如果有會再跟委員這邊做報告"},{"start":500.181,"end":523.349,"text":"那現在看起來交建的狀況不曉得國防部這邊大概預期的交建的預期大概會抓到什麼時候跟委員報告因為我們是合約的甲方我們一定是要完成它的品質跟合乎海軍的作戰需求那會請台船依照合約然後我們會來做狀況管理那現在先完成整個海上測試之後才能談到後續的交建的期程"},{"start":524.009,"end":550.183,"text":"是 所以專案管理很重要我想隨時都希望能夠跟我們做一些報告有一些delay我們過去在學校非常care這個事情做專案管理才不會到最後一拖拖拖整個就拖下去了另外就是其實我加入外交國防委員會因為有特別預算我就一直在看看我們國內重獲軍工武器的一個狀況我特別就去查了一個這個概念"},{"start":552.584,"end":573.533,"text":"這個應該有啦,就五年兵力的整件計畫啦那我想這個應該跟我們整個軍購啦,或者我們自製的一些武器會有很大的關係不過我剛來之前,我發現好像很多報道說這個裡面很多機密啦後來去查了一下,好像國防法三四項,是分兩種嘛就所謂的有機密的也有公開的啦,應該是上海對吧,不曉得國防部長"},{"start":575.314,"end":604.013,"text":"是對啦 應該是有可以公開的部分啦就是上次的那個很多這個資訊是有問題的對 不涉密的部分可以公開所以我想希望未來我們不管各項的這個包括我們最近的軍購都能夠大概告訴我們一下這個五年這個兵力的狀況怎麼樣跟我們因為現在有兩類嘛一個是general的budget就一般的預算裡面也有這種所謂special那這兩者到底要怎麼樣balance我想我們都非常想要知道"},{"start":605.472,"end":620.371,"text":"大概是...報委員,我們的確每一個會期,我們都會向大院這邊來做兵力整建的報告但這個報告的內容,我們揭露的主要是我們目前正在執行中的主要武器裝備的籌貨"},{"start":622.113,"end":648.672,"text":"那五年兵力 國防部本身的五年兵力整建計畫的內容它是屬於我們國防部內部機密評估未來我們所需求的項目那這個部分兩者是不一樣的一個是我們內部的建軍文件一個是對大院所做的報告所以兩者之間在這個國防法裡面律定我們的跟那個所以我指的是公開的部分啦對 只是一個報告"},{"start":651.434,"end":670.529,"text":"最後我想利用一點點時間因為大家知道我是勞動學者我們這邊為了少子女化其實我們做了很多的努力我也希望很多君子的這些媽媽我想國防部要多多為他們著想一下而且我認識很多朋友女性的君子人員"},{"start":671.349,"end":694.577,"text":"常常她的老公他另外一半也是軍職人員很多我們現在少子女化要生小孩要養小孩小孩生病了還要帶他去看醫生我希望是不是國防部可以想一套方法怎麼來幫助這些軍職的這些媽媽讓他們真的也敢生小孩也能夠真的把小孩能夠帶好當然也強化我們的國防能力"},{"start":695.208,"end":714.226,"text":"是第一個部分就是當然這一個我們希望能夠讓軍人在安心的服役對於軍隊的照顧是非常重要的那所以委員上面所提的目前的整個這個托兒機構目前在相關的主要部分是我們持續在推動的工作當中目前整個"},{"start":715.567,"end":740.961,"text":"托兒機制的部分我所理解目前都已經在相關的地區都已經有建置那除了外島地區可能是有比較困難之外那另外在本島北中南東這個部分大部分都已經設置了那實際我們現在整個育嬰的部分有開了30處的一個育嬰托嬰中心那也"},{"start":742.182,"end":745.029,"text":"其中只要軍艦有需要照顧的部門我們都能夠分擔"}]}},{"id":"167488","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167488","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6db9c979f21aba54d0bc6757ec415edbe9ba3647d0b3df3c83582eaed42b6d64d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"10:10:01 - 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可是我發現我們的人口成長還是不斷的往下修 不斷的往下修那這個問題剛剛楊學英委員也有問到 那我特別關注的一件事情是我們在整個少子化少子化對策計畫當中的時候 去年9月核定了2.0的版本 主委知道這件事情嗎 2.0的版本跟之前的100"},{"start":113.769,"end":138.936,"text":"107年到115年這過程當中這計劃當中原本有一個很重要的一個目標就是在119年的時候我們的人口生育率要到1.4這個數字不知道在2.0這版本當中有沒有改變有 我們有有改變是不是 改變到多少因為他現在的話是看他現在的實際上的環境因素"},{"start":140.071,"end":153.108,"text":"因為我們那個整個還在還在預估說那個整個生育率因為我們那個整個少子化的嚴重的程度比我們原本預估的還要更嚴重所以會再慢慢的再再再提供資料給給衛福部"},{"start":155.271,"end":175.613,"text":"所以說那個針對這個部分因為我看到114年9月核定的我國少子女化對策計畫2.0版本當中的時候把這個1.4這個生育率119年的生育率把它拿掉了我在想說是不是因為生育率的不斷的下修下修到連國發會都沒有辦法去預估到時候會有多慘"},{"start":176.834,"end":192.081,"text":"所以這個部分我希望能夠很快的把這個數字弄出來你沒有這個數字我們完全沒有辦法去去監督我們行政部門對於整個少金融化這個計畫到底執行的情況怎麼樣跟委員報告因為我們國發會沒兩年"},{"start":193.882,"end":220.032,"text":"會做一個人口支付那今年剛好我們也會再做一次的人口支付那我這邊另外再提一個狀態因為針對這個少子女化我們這幾年增加了五倍的預算可是出生率還是不斷往下修我提出一個概念因為現在西方世界他們有時候在提到UBI就是全民基本收入Universal Basic Income這個計畫當中的時候我想台灣還沒有做"},{"start":221.092,"end":246.905,"text":"可是我希望國發會去研究一下這個部分是不是適合在台灣去推動那我們希望說少子化問題完全變成國安的問題所以我們這部分國發會這邊一定要非常嚴正以待不能夠覺得說它自然就是這樣子我們就雙手一攤什麼事都沒有好不好那這個部分請國發會好好的加快那同樣一個月之內給本辦公室一個很完整的資料"},{"start":249.892,"end":276.96,"text":"那麼接下來就提到因為我看到今天國發會的一個夜報當中的時候提到了很多產業的發展感覺欣欣向榮啦那去年的經濟表現確實也不錯可是很大一部分都壓在了半導體跟這是AI的部分那我從新竹來我對這部分感受非常的深刻因為在新竹說實話不會感覺到經濟不好可是很多地方大家可以很明顯的感覺到台灣的經濟發展是很兩極的一個情況在走"},{"start":277.64,"end":306.104,"text":"當台積電一家公司的市值可以佔整個台灣資本市場的43%到45%的時候你就會發現這當中有多麼的一個扭曲那我在想說當我們在講說就是算力就是國力的時候那算力依賴電力所以我這邊我要特別請教一下朱主委就是按照我們就是那個天然氣事業法當中相關的一個法規的時候我們的"},{"start":307.861,"end":311.107,"text":"安全的事業儲量大概是幾天"},{"start":317.062,"end":343.692,"text":"安全存量的天數大概是11天目前是11天這個數字沒有錯吧對 經濟部那邊OK那不是11天當中的時候那經濟部他也表示我們大概3月份的時候大概有11.9天4月份大概有11.5天可是5、6月因為中東戰事的狀態現在可能是不足的狀態那目前要怎麼去解決這當然是一個很大的一個問題可是我今天要特別問的是"},{"start":344.992,"end":371.366,"text":"因為我看到了在我們國發會當中的一個會議當中在去年11月20號第135次委員會記錄當中的時候直接講到了就是台灣的國內天然氣安全存量只有7到10天那我不知道這情況是國發會的數字是精準的表示台灣現在實際上面的安全存量只有7到10天所以是經濟部這邊的數字不一樣還是你們"},{"start":375.742,"end":401.988,"text":"統計的方式不一樣這個部分我再請那個同仁去查一下 好 針對這個部分的時候你直接查因為那個我們很清楚從會議記錄當中看到這樣的資料請主委這邊查好資料之後再跟本辦公室做一個很清楚的交代另外就在同一次會議當中的時候也提到了因為我們在2022年當時提出來的一個就是"},{"start":403.974,"end":417.186,"text":"2050的精靈碳排的一個執行的一個路徑當中的時候提到天然氣大概佔台灣整個發電量的50%那在這過程當中特別提到的一個光電的一個部分我們預計在2030年光電要達到30GW"},{"start":421.609,"end":439.062,"text":"那麼到去年底我們統計數字是多少?主委知道嗎?好像是我們還沒有達到16嗎?好,所以我直接跟你講PVT上面都已經有寫大概是15.58GW大概一半左右那我們到2030年肯定"},{"start":441.448,"end":458.715,"text":"光電這個發電的量可能也會不夠於是在這次會議當中的時候國發會這邊有人提出來說對於目前農地只有40%可以用來做光電這個部分可能要鬆綁有確定這樣子嗎可不可以請主委做個回答"},{"start":459.475,"end":482.381,"text":"這個我再回去查一下那個會議記錄但目前來講農地鬆綁的話好像是還不是一個確定要執行的一個證據還沒有確定應該要鬆綁嘛對不對可是因為在那次會議當中他提到說農地沒有鬆綁的時候這個30GW在2030年當中的時候基本上這目標是達不到的"},{"start":483.711,"end":502.099,"text":"所以我記得問的這幾個問題我發現主委都要回去再去多了解那沒有問題我們要解決問題尤其電力就是國力這件事情是不容忽略的一個事情當我們很多的一個經濟成長都壓在半導體跟AI的時候你沒有電力這事情是完全沒有辦法做的"},{"start":503.28,"end":518.375,"text":"當台電在告訴我們從苗栗以北的時候所有的那個算力中心完全不允許的時候我們就發現台灣的電力是非常的緊張的像中東有戰事的時候那台灣這樣子的一個光是一個偏南氣的安全儲量的時候經濟部跟"},{"start":520.477,"end":543.253,"text":"國發會講說的數字這邊不一樣我們對於台灣的能源非常非常的擔心請國發會這邊好好去統整一下然後盡速給本辦公室一個很清楚的說明安全存量這個部分的話就是11天這個應該沒有任何意義可是因為你們的135次的會議紀錄很清楚提到他們的安全存量是7到10天我不知道是誰出錯"},{"start":544.534,"end":546.698,"text":"可以請主委這邊詳細再跟本辦公室做說明好 謝謝謝謝政政前委員"}]}},{"id":"167483","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167483","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f64469522235c8281c9845512775efda379ba3647d0b3df3c8e4add9a9fc88eabd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林岱樺","委員發言時間":"09:54:02 - 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我們有請主計長請陳主計長委員好好 是這個監督國庫帳房本席針對兩個第一個經濟成長並為全民平均收惠第二個特別預算常態化的舉債成長跟經濟財政的紀律這個怎麼用 來來來"},{"start":27.864,"end":34.489,"text":"這個我還不知道怎麼怎麼按這個東西可以教導一下嗎這個我不會按耶這我按都不能這怎麼按這個嗎我按怎麼不行是按中間這個嗎"},{"start":60.026,"end":62.7,"text":"不好意思啊主席不好意思好"},{"start":65.985,"end":89.297,"text":"沒有電了好沒有電好第一個呢針對平均薪資跟薪資中位數第二個特別預算長待發的舉債成長跟財政機率下頁好足跡總數身為國家的帳房每一筆的預算都編列代表的政府的施政重點也呈現台灣2300萬人民的生活跟未來在7.7%的經濟成長為何年輕人無感針對標普全球今年"},{"start":94.54,"end":110.573,"text":"二月預測今年全球的經濟成長率是2.9%跟去年是持平的但是主計總數你預測我國今年的成長率可以到7.71%而今年的消費物價指數呢也會漲1.68%"},{"start":113.675,"end":117.336,"text":"那足跡總數您說這個115年的經濟成長率高達7.7%這在後疫情時代跟國際貿易動態下是非常驚人的但是我們來看這一組數據這三個數據平均薪資48,000經常性薪資中位數是38,319元未滿30歲的經常性中位數是31,740元"},{"start":140.385,"end":157.223,"text":"好 這樣的公佈呢 這個平均薪資啊 接近四萬八 事實上平均數極易受到高薪資族群跟極端值的拉抬 真正代表普羅大眾心情的經常性的薪資是落在三萬八千三百一十九元"},{"start":157.883,"end":183.493,"text":"這代表全台灣有超過一半的受僱勞工每年領不到10萬元更讓本期擔憂的是未滿30歲的年輕人薪資的中位數只有31815年所以當政府高喊經濟成長預測達到7.7%的時候這過半數的基層勞工完全感受不到成長的果實就是說政府你在騙我"},{"start":185.113,"end":202.451,"text":"就是這個數字 就是這樣的心態所以你每公佈一次 這個民運就提高一次既然你115年了 如此的樂觀那當然我也希望 本席也希望是如此的數字的呈現但是你怎麼解釋這種高經濟成長跟低實質薪資征服的斷層呢"},{"start":207.296,"end":217.449,"text":"第二個這種平均薪資的說法是不能為主流民意所接受就好像本席本人我跟籃球選手姚明平均身高也有1900啊你覺得這個數字對我林黛華有什麼對本席還有什麼意義沒有意義啊"},{"start":223.576,"end":242.724,"text":"就好像你說四萬八跟我一般老百姓的薪資平均三萬八跟三十歲以下三萬的我一定是罵翻你政府了所以這個數據其實就我們的這樣的一個平均薪資跟薪資中位數拿台積電的高薪去平均月薪三萬的基層勞工對他們有意義嗎所以這個您怎麼看啊 竹記長"},{"start":248.704,"end":269.374,"text":"因為其實他薪資是都有行業別啦那我們是整個一個薪資的中位數是3萬8那3萬8是指50%以上就會有具有3萬8這樣的一個資格但是各行業別還是有不同啦譬如說服務業他的薪資大概都是在3萬多出頭到4萬這樣一個階級主席長以後公布好不好"},{"start":274.997,"end":297.138,"text":"不要每次都引起民怨就覺得我們在騙人民所以你必須公布實質薪資的成長率這個東西你一定要同步的公布這樣人民會覺得我們也看著這個數字今年的這個平均薪的平均的中位數是這個三萬八也許明年三萬九或者明年我又多了這個五百塊"},{"start":298.939,"end":327.539,"text":"這個才表示我們的施政有力道看的是成長進步而不是用那個表面的數字完全是跟現實脫鉤的嘛這樣可以嗎是我要跟委員報告事實上我們在公布的時候我們各行業別的一個中位數包括他的平均薪資包括他的中位數各行業別各年齡別我們都有公布並不是說沒有公布那你的新聞稿要特別注意是是是新聞稿要特別注意"},{"start":328.92,"end":334.824,"text":"這個並不是說沒有公佈只是說因為你的新聞稿的重點接下來特別預算常態化的舉債成長跟財政機率這個表啊這個是從2017年也就是我爬梳大概這近十年來現在2026年"},{"start":345.792,"end":368.146,"text":"這計時年來從2027到2025的基礎前瞻一直到我們2019到2026的新式戰機的採購到這個防疫紓困振興海空戰力提升疫後強化經濟社會韌性的特別預算一直到今年還沒有去年還沒通過的強化韌性的國防大概5200億一直到國防特別預算1.25兆"},{"start":374.69,"end":392.238,"text":"這個數字顯示特別預算的累計速度的斜率是明顯的陡峭化這正是常態化的最強鐵證所以從2005年的特別預算的累計我用累計有0.3兆中央的債務是3.6兆"},{"start":395.179,"end":421.907,"text":"2015年的特別預算的累積是1.1兆中央債務是5.3兆2024年的特別預算的累積是2.6兆中央債務6.5兆2025年我直接就把它加上去了你的2.6兆其實在2.5多啦再加上這個我們的這個還沒通過的那兩個國防特別預算可以特別預算累積到4.3兆中央債務大"},{"start":423.848,"end":443.662,"text":"達6.47兆也就是過去20年我從2025年開始算了特別預算的增幅跟2025年比較4.3跟0.3兆我增加了14倍遠遠超過政府債務的成長速度這代表政府已經不能通過總預算的節流來做事情"},{"start":444.142,"end":460.189,"text":"而是習慣性的開外掛 繞過預算法的第83條特別預算是否已成為政府擴張支出的主要工具而非例外工具好 我在這邊也跟審計部 那也有請審計長"},{"start":461.63,"end":468.894,"text":"審計長在這邊審計部點名了五項大概所有的預算會有這五項的失能這是你們的報告第一個執行率虛胖計畫的延宕嚴重第三個重複補助亂象第四個規避正規的預算第五個是年底趕季度這是審計部你整個針對預算的報告"},{"start":490.947,"end":493.829,"text":"好 那就以這樣的報告來對應我的這個特別預算特別預算能是例外嗎過去十年的特別預算超過了將近2.5兆我就沒再加上這個2025年沒通過的"},{"start":506.736,"end":522.867,"text":"幾乎每兩年就編一個新的這符合預算法中的不定期或重大正式嗎如果每年都有重大正式那為什麼不乾脆編進總預算接受每年一度的細目審查呢"},{"start":523.527,"end":538.772,"text":"好 那你們是不是真的也是在規避立法院的監督呢這是本席的第二項質疑特別預算是才一次通過分年執行這是否大幅削弱我立法院年度預算中的逐年刪減"},{"start":540.412,"end":560.891,"text":"調整計畫的監督權利呢這是不是叫做空白授權第三個本席質疑的是真實的舉債比例為何這2.5兆的特別預算累計的特別預算當中是有多少是透過舉債之意債務呢又佔了GDP的比例下降"},{"start":562.172,"end":582.541,"text":"這是你們的說法 官方的說法 債務暫時GDP比例下降但是事實上是什麼 是分母GDP長大了但是分子債務的絕對值卻是不斷的堆疊所以一旦經濟下行的時候 行政院主計總部又如何確保財政機率先由沈記長您先回應"},{"start":584.728,"end":592.35,"text":"特別預算的部分我們曾經109年或者112年都有提醒行政院會常態化這一個部分我們是希望能夠去注意到財政永續的問題我們有統計過差不多90年到114年我們辦了34個結算差不多1年1.5個大部分都擠債差不多有擠債都4兆"},{"start":613.894,"end":615.656,"text":"既然沈記長有這樣的一個建言了就一個財政紀律希望也能夠常態的去編列那你怎麼看呢"},{"start":631.09,"end":655.416,"text":"事實上特別預算它並不是很例外它是有特別有一個必須經過特別條例經立法院通過以後我們才便利預算所以它是有特殊的那第二個它其實舉債它都受到我們整個舉債的限制並沒有說放任它不受舉債的限制所以這個部分呢在整個債務的一個控管上我們一直說控管的很好"},{"start":655.816,"end":677.855,"text":"那因為質詢世界大我最後提醒數字不應該只是用來美化政績而是發現問題解決問題預算不能只有特別而沒有紀律當例外變成常態這就是對法治跟子孫財政的背叛所以主計長您剛才的回應跟審計部審計長是有衝突的所以你們自己要好好的針對財政紀律再做一個協調"},{"start":680.037,"end":707.526,"text":"不要再用GDP的增長來掩蓋債務絕對值的飆升因為這個是後代子孫每個世世代代的債務比是在增加的特別預算本來就是一例外的制度但近十年來規模已經超過累計將近2.5兆元難免關心的是政府是否把特別預算當成常態所以請主計總署能夠一個月內提供維持財政紀律的方案給本委員會可以嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":713.49,"end":713.692,"text":"谢谢大家"}]}},{"id":"167482","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167482","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f65d91df6921303511f4d454d79684183a9ba3647d0b3df3c8a50e264968218f985ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"09:54:24 - 10:02:43","影片長度":"00:08:19","會議時間":"2026-03-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況(含上會期臨時提案辦理情形)，並備質詢。二、審查委員林俊憲等23人擬具「市區道路條例第二十三條條文修正草案」案。【僅詢答】【3月16日及18日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-03-16","start_time":"2026-03-16T09:54:24+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-16T10:02:43+08:00","duration":499,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-5-15-2"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.148468750000001,"end":5.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.51096875,"end":7.371593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.15096875,"end":58.705343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.84034375,"end":77.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.36659375,"end":66.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.57221875,"end":74.12909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.89221875,"end":82.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.38096875000001,"end":84.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.52409375,"end":88.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.96221875,"end":92.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.37096875,"end":94.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.96971875000001,"end":95.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.30284375000001,"end":98.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.27721875,"end":99.22221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.20534375000001,"end":103.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.57596875,"end":103.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.50409375000001,"end":109.33034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.46534375,"end":116.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.77721875,"end":113.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.97471875000001,"end":125.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.86784375,"end":127.84221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.16284375,"end":129.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.68159375000002,"end":136.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.73159375,"end":134.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.19534375,"end":144.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.59159375000002,"end":139.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.61221875,"end":142.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.51471875000001,"end":144.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.83534375000002,"end":186.53346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.53346875000003,"end":240.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.60096875000002,"end":246.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.87909375,"end":243.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":246.77721875,"end":279.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.31659375000004,"end":284.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":281.33721875000003,"end":281.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":283.26096875,"end":300.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.15721875,"end":304.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":302.36346875000004,"end":303.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":305.06346875,"end":312.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.32034375,"end":308.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.78409375,"end":327.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.94409375000004,"end":313.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.09971875,"end":318.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.30471875,"end":328.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.26221875000005,"end":397.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.74971875,"end":405.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.27221875000004,"end":400.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.73159375,"end":404.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.04784375,"end":405.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.11534375,"end":405.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.16596875000005,"end":405.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.31784375,"end":425.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.35159375,"end":405.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":416.01659375,"end":416.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.05034375,"end":416.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":416.06721875000005,"end":416.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.10096875000005,"end":416.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.50034375,"end":430.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.70284375,"end":425.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":430.44471875000005,"end":437.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.69659375000003,"end":445.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.80909375000005,"end":460.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.86721875,"end":455.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.38096875,"end":461.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.5534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謝謝主席 我們先請部長來 請劉部長"},{"start":15.305,"end":35.152,"text":"好部長好我這邊也要先來再次爭取因為其實去年十月我們幾個民進黨的委員在內政委員會裡面都有共同提了一個提案就是這個深夜的圍牢津貼當時是除了這個駐外的之外我們也認為被勤的同仁也同樣辛苦所以也應該要納入這個範圍"},{"start":37.133,"end":58.457,"text":"那當時其實署長有說有回去跟人總溝通跟各縣市溝通那是不是請部長署長跟我們說明一下目前溝通的進度當然我要先肯定啦現在錦霄的這個勤務佳績都已經正式核定了嘛那其實是一個很棒的開始那我認為接下來其實還有我們可以做的更多的地方"},{"start":59.478,"end":76.754,"text":"對 謝謝委員 就是我們在上個會期對於市內未來家居對於值班或備請就是駐地內的來做一個提升那我們部裡面的這個整個的這個政策是同意的所以我們在去年的11月就報到"},{"start":77.975,"end":100.861,"text":"行政院去了那這個案就是在現在人總在1月19號那人總我們也去做溝通那目前溝通的狀況我們當然就是部裡面的這幾個單位他認為各單位的這個性質也不太相同那另外他這個人總也認為說這個海巡也要納進來所以人總我也同意啊對所以人總在1月19號還給各項單各"},{"start":104.862,"end":116.474,"text":"這個相關單位在這個相關的這個資料在做確診研究當中好所以其實目前算是有一點進展有進展有進展好太好了所以人種其實大致上方向也是同意的"},{"start":117.971,"end":135.237,"text":"兩種現在還在跟各單位在做了解全盤的這個整個的一個一個狀況的一個資料的一個一個了解那現在除了我們這個單位之外海巡也要比照來做辦理所以整個案子還在還在研究當中"},{"start":136.237,"end":160.464,"text":"好那我在這邊期待好消息啦好謝謝我們署長持續跟人總溝通當然如果未來海巡演納進來是最好是好謝謝署長那再來請教部長喔因為其實今天自由時報的頭版就是說我們要來補助地方的防災協作中心那包括這個全台有365處的防災協作中心每一處可以補助110萬"},{"start":162.344,"end":171.932,"text":"那這個村裡的相關的村裡處的空間呢可以補助15萬那可不可以說明一下這樣的補助的內容是什麼因為我認為這個國土韌性當然很重要那補助的內容讓我們地方的村里長第一時間知道我相信地方的村里長都會馬上來申請補助讓自己的這個空間變成是最好的防災空間"},{"start":186.544,"end":203.039,"text":"但是謝謝委員長期以來對於消防尤其是我們這個所謂的防災的部分非常的關心我們的主要的目的就是希望說未來的災防救災救護的工作不是集中在這個縣市或者是中央政府而是地方都要一起"},{"start":203.599,"end":217.424,"text":"所以我們提出了這個防災協作中心是要下放到鄉鎮公所或者是村裡面那這個部分我們在去年的時候消防署已經跟各地的消防局到各地的這個村裡做一下說明跟溝通也就是我們補助的110萬已經沒有太大的問題那包括偏鄉地區都算在內那同時15萬的部分也是一樣我們碰到大型碰到天災的時候呢村裡辦公室或是鄉鎮公所可以馬上來運用"},{"start":231.73,"end":243.074,"text":"省得要再吊炮這些所謂的要支援救災救護的設施會有時間上的壓力那現在執行的情形我請蕭署長跟您做個簡單的說明好 謝謝也拜託署長說明一下這個110萬是用在哪裡這15萬用在哪裡"},{"start":246.795,"end":271.02,"text":"好 感謝委員關心很感謝立法院去年通過特別預算所以每個鄉鎮市區會有110萬每個村裡會有25萬的經費那這個部分我們也分別訂定防災協助中心的維生設備的計畫還有補助原則跟必要的項目而這個部分都已經協調確認過"},{"start":272.62,"end":284.033,"text":"那在協助中心的部分呢會在今年會執行完畢那村裡的部分會在明年來執行所以我想知道的是可不可以舉例一些什麼樣的項目什麼樣的壽司什麼樣的空間譬如說照明燈廣播設備還有我們那個電源的裝備設備"},{"start":293.122,"end":316.056,"text":"這些設備都是我們在考慮使用的地方當然濾水設備也是我們考慮的我們已經把這個清單列出來我們列出來我們會跟已經跟縣市協調好縣市跟鄉鎮市公所跟村里長這個清單要麻煩清楚然後也讓地方是社區的第一線都是知道的"},{"start":316.556,"end":326.901,"text":"好謝謝署長 因為時間的關係那我在這邊有一個還有兩分鐘太好了那我最後一樣我請教一下那個警政署好謝謝"},{"start":329.295,"end":346.426,"text":"部長也可以先請回座最後我要來請教一下最近一個盜刷的案子因為前幾天有一個盜刷的報導他是說這個竊盜集團專門鎖定人潮密集的地方然後他會偷走民眾的皮夾之後呢直接拿出他們在海外買回來的刷卡及現場實體刷卡"},{"start":348.607,"end":376.637,"text":"那刷出來之後因為它是實體卡的交易所以銀行端那邊比較難第一時間察覺所以倒刷是常常成功的那有一個民眾他就是在北捷被偷了錢包之後半小時內信用卡的顯示的地址是在沙烏地阿拉伯實體過卡然後就瞬間被刷了十幾萬那這種其實這樣的倒刷的形態也逐漸出現我在這邊想要建議因為他們這種刷卡機其實就是直接從海外買回來嘛"},{"start":377.737,"end":395.648,"text":"那最近其實經濟部有提出兩個必須要納入進口管理就是網路電話的交換機跟網路電話的閘道機他們必須要納入進口管理就是NCC那邊要先審查那我也認為海外買進來的這種刷卡機是不是也應該納入管理這邊建議署長"},{"start":397.389,"end":400.531,"text":"我想這次對於這個倒刷,這次境外的這個倒刷應該有透過這個實體的這個工具實體卡,那這個部分我們還在追查當中,那我個人的建議就是對於那個有關電流的閘道這個已經就管制了,那這個倒刷的這個"},{"start":418.021,"end":435.21,"text":"設備當然也是要做管制也能夠杜絕這樣的類似海外的這樣的倒刷的狀況那另外我們現在普遍發現到的倒刷那當然我要特別在這種場合就是要跟全國民眾做一個就是這個要讓你提供卡號還有這些這個這個這個就是還有這些那個"},{"start":447.81,"end":458.806,"text":"卡號之外還有這些相關的這個號碼就是驗證號碼這個都不能提供這個就是國內倒刷最基本的一個狀況這個不能 其實它倒刷其實也有這樣的一個依據你要把你的這個"},{"start":463.618,"end":489.367,"text":"要你的這個存者你的這個信用卡的這個東西的卡號還有驗證碼相關的使用期限的這個時間提供給別人就等於就是說你把錢提供給別人要去做提領就等於是你自己要提領所以這個一定要特別利用這個場合來做一個宣導所以我在這邊針對這種新型態的這種盜刷犯罪我是具體建議署長你們就回去跟關務署討論就像經濟部他們管制網路電話交換機那樣"},{"start":493.328,"end":500.324,"text":"直接带入进口管理 没问题 没问题 这个我们来协助处理好 谢谢谢谢黄介委员"}]}},{"id":"167481","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167481","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f69884104be47a11cbf4d454d79684183a9ba3647d0b3df3c8a50e264968218f985ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"09:44:28 - 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專案的輔導團隊"},{"start":225.544,"end":230.627,"text":"那這個專案輔導團隊呢在內政部這邊已經委託出去但是有些縣市政府他的專案輔導團隊譬如說我們要找營造或者是建設或者是住都或者是金融管理的這些形成一個團隊呢還沒有完全完成那我們未來會盡量請他們加快也就是委員去參加的時候同時去介紹都算是一個建築師"},{"start":250.16,"end":256.385,"text":"他才知道說電視什麼東西,你不能讓他眼睛看,你要很專業那這個呢,就是縣市地方政府會很快把它通過之後我們馬上就會到每個縣市,希望他5月就可以來開始申請補充,在這裡我來補充一下,到2757萬4千棟的30年以上的老房子"},{"start":275.76,"end":285.483,"text":"在這個規定當中 我覺得補充這個剛才蘇朝委員說他要建出他的新北市那些的建出帶一個他本身的故鄉所需要的我相信每一個委員都不會去反對所以在這個規定補充 你知道嗎這個50億對我們來說"},{"start":303.683,"end":305.806,"text":"完完全全不夠啊尤其在正當有開鎖平衛有位官司"},{"start":314.828,"end":320.853,"text":"的政府已經準備好了 但是有的行政委員會 行政委員會不知道但是對於平常時的管治長做認真 要看中央的政策 要簽署的時候"},{"start":336.084,"end":339.285,"text":"但是我們沒有認真的人,這樣也不對啊因為像嘉義市,嘉義市他就知道說跟這邊怎麼接觸,要怎麼做是怎麼分析,會再補充問一回因為有的不太了解,有的想說應該要我家三十年,要我去台北買,要我叫什麼人"},{"start":363.735,"end":368.139,"text":"來讓我感動,因為說實在的,柏中,我們等於這五十億,是沒有幾千噸的我們這件事不是以後進展的,是要改進去進行勞促,經處理好,如果有新的工藝"},{"start":389.962,"end":395.765,"text":"一棟這個電梯,我們是在這時候才會說補助一棟,九百六十萬耶!朋友,我剛才也聽到了你的解說,你的說話因為很多百姓,覺得說我會不會吃得到,會煎這個啊"},{"start":414.605,"end":419.229,"text":"因為像剛才已經說明了,白色的都知道,現在他就是要當時,要去阻力讓他們補,是要去工作,要去理事長,還是要去貼證什麼的,不知道"},{"start":434.938,"end":449.862,"text":"所以說 北京 本席跟你說的就是 你這種政策 很好 但是不可以讓北省覺得說 我會中 吃不中 這樣就不好啊來 市長 郭敦市長 你要補充什麼來"},{"start":458.11,"end":464.759,"text":"謝謝委員 其實每個縣市政府 我們從去年開始招募沒有啦 我剛才跟你說的問題 當時可以讓他們使用啦剛才補充以前說五位 是要"},{"start":473.451,"end":476.932,"text":"我告訴你 五月要開始申請 有的縣市政府每一個縣市政府收基金的帳戶已經出了說加一次就是它的督發局但是我剛才說到 督發局沒辦法去輔導所以我們要求所有的縣市政府 他們的輔導團隊 四個隊陣要成立"},{"start":499.442,"end":500.302,"text":"希望大院可以支持"},{"start":528.784,"end":537.75,"text":"我就是跟補充說,就是大家都很漂亮的,但是現在我最高興的就是,有的被子都後悔了就是說,如果我們有跟主管單位有協議,我們就有辦法去申請,如果跟主管單位沒有協議,我們就敗不了啦所以這種的,不要有這個聲音,所以我希望"},{"start":555.302,"end":564.827,"text":"我們的錢是開的,覺得應該申請的只要幾個禮拜的負責會申請,沒錯跟金正恩市長最近有發生一件問題,因為我這陣子的時間已經到了,覺得不要人擔心太多時間,跟我的資料給你,一星期後"},{"start":583.142,"end":586.354,"text":"給我報告一下好,謝謝委員好,謝謝理事長謝謝,謝謝委員謝謝抱歉喔"}]}},{"id":"167472","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167472","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6d5f99ca9359480339a7ba446ded26d6b52953553f5c94752071eed9bfd46deff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳永康","委員發言時間":"09:28:36 - 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大学的职餐教育的图教学都要改进所以我们看到的是一个复合型的东西各位看这边了"},{"start":450.526,"end":458.163,"text":"这个支持啊国军强化战力啊赖总统啊讲我们要继续支持但有一点我提出啊这个比例不同啊"},{"start":460.562,"end":467.365,"text":"日本的這個國防預算1.8兆但他總預算26兆所以只佔7%那麼韓國的這個國防預算是1.4兆總預算16兆只佔9%但是因為我們的總預算只有3兆目前國防的預算加特別條例加起來已經佔了30%所以不是在野黨在這裡面去"},{"start":488.851,"end":515.069,"text":"不支持而是说你的优秀一个整合过程中间我们更要努力所以台湾之盾不是一个概念的盾就像总统讲的但是这里面有很多的界面要三个军种甚至跟中科院跟国内产业要共同来努力整合谈到了美国跟伊朗的战争你发现打到的通通都是"},{"start":516.243,"end":535.385,"text":"民間的設施煉油廠電網以及高科技的運算中心這幅圖就是把我們社會韌性所有的結果用AI去把你的關聯性做出來這個圖只是表層它一共有三層我們也可以協助第一個優先是什麼就是電網"},{"start":536.653,"end":565.208,"text":"我們17個超高壓配電站沿著臺海臺灣西部如果被打了跳電了你72小時恢復不了醫院崩盤社會崩盤這個時候跟飛彈打多少沒有必然的直接關聯防禦很重要這個電網啊能源啊廣播系統啊醫療系統這個是非常重要這個他要做成網路架構那我們政府呢是政府的核心任務是用敘述式的"},{"start":566.008,"end":587.99,"text":"各個看他這個五個他是獨立從上到下但是沒有橫向的聯繫這張圖套了五層圖伊朗德黑蘭首都最後伊朗的神學的領導人士被集中的位置都可以校準校正出來"},{"start":589.025,"end":616.384,"text":"那请问我们对于人家的借镜有没有采用这个相同方法这个是伊朗南部的那个小学女生的学校被打了死了165个各位看左上图小学军营应该是雾籍这是这个战斧飞弹打的所以我们可以利用GIS 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二讀通過可以動之可是這個品瑞委 品瑞召委他是講說賣過未來也賣過也不可能犧牲也不可能死那你覺得呢"},{"start":55.121,"end":81.539,"text":"針對的剛才秉瑞委員你跟他對話對了那麼久他剛才特別就提到了他說這個780億的那個第二億那個第二零十億備金因為現在貴院有先行動資718億這個是屬於新興計劃的部分但是沒有包括第一預備金和第二預備金還有災害準備金170億的部分"},{"start":83.3,"end":105.991,"text":"是那所以這個部分沒有辦法動之會影響將來如果有各縣市有災害那我們沒有辦法動之災害準備金而且現在五月到了汛期已經到了有一些的一個防災一個作為或措施必須先行進行也沒有相關的一個經會可以做因應那所以這個部分將來如果災害發生"},{"start":108.052,"end":133.964,"text":"那沒有辦法動資災害準備金那這個部分對整個總預算對中央來講對各縣市它是沒有辦法進行補助那怎麼辦呢這個興起來臨的我跟你講這個下雨就是這個大雨來了你這真的就是說整個災情你擋不住的話那你沒有第一倍用第一億備金第二億備金還有你的災害準備金這個170億那你還是要照動啊"},{"start":137.125,"end":159.828,"text":"像台中非洲豬瘟它一直都是動第二預備金那第二預備金這個部分如果沒有動它對於整個一個將來一個非洲豬瘟的一個防疫也有很大的一個影響是啊所以說延續性啊你這一個就是整體來講的話事實上這個非洲豬瘟這個議題沒有解決它是橫在那個地方"},{"start":161.329,"end":171.296,"text":"你到底是不是就是說整體的你是不是要那個禁掉了就是說可以用噴漆地或是不能用噴漆地這個問題都一樣沒有解決那怎麼辦呢跟委員報告因為新增計畫有1017億那可以動之是718億那裡面有299億那299億包括軌道那軌道裡面有台南的"},{"start":185.986,"end":193.371,"text":"鐵路地下化還有一個花蓮的一個花東雙軌的一個計畫還有包括那個這些還有一個延續性的一個計畫1805億包括還有那個所謂的剛剛170億的一個預備金所以總共這些合起來有2274億是不能動之所以對整個一個總預算的影響是很大"},{"start":211.441,"end":229.08,"text":"而且等於說你718億其實是先行動之但是他並不是三讀通過所以將來如果還是有預算被刪除那對行政人員來講這個恐懼涉及到違法因為你支出的一個經費將來是收不回來了以上一個說明"},{"start":229.522,"end":246.939,"text":"是 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也推出了售宅也推出了陳經理長 我想你也非常清楚的看到了掃紙化真正的存在的一個議題啦你現在看到了就是說在推影片上頭我用台灣 日本跟德國就是說在現有的這個"},{"start":425.703,"end":441.601,"text":"生小孩子的那個就是義兒津貼補助還有就是說托育的一個服務會用那還有甚至就是說在那個新知的幾戶跟那個所有的社會福利上頭看起來是德國最好"},{"start":442.262,"end":462.087,"text":"他從0歲到18歲他每個月就是給孩子一個孩子就是9000塊的台幣這個比就是說你一開始一胎10萬塊還是日本的日本其實也大概是一胎10萬塊那有沒有機會朝著這個面向來做"},{"start":464.187,"end":483.141,"text":"這個就是在未來的一個目標啦當然就是說你們現有狀況跟今天今天的這個問題就大家面臨到今天大家坐下來討論的這個議題又有點不一樣了因為我們也擔心就是說中東的地緣政治引發的能演成本的一個問題造成就是說我們今天"},{"start":484.282,"end":510.385,"text":"主計跟審計都不知道該怎麼樣來面對就是說在南白就是提出這樣子的一個表決這樣的一個計畫這個其實都是連我們都不知道怎麼監督你們連我們都不知道怎麼監督你們這個是變成是一個國家國家一個非常重要的一個議題啦那我想就是少子化少子化的一個"},{"start":511.326,"end":533.095,"text":"那個未來的規劃還是沈記長你這邊要多用心剛剛委員提到的那個國際上的是一個借鏡像韓國現在有上來這是一個委員剛剛提的那個很好因為這個要想方設法要多方多元來處理這個少組化的問題這個對我們以後的整個國安或整個經濟的成長會很多謝謝委員關心這個問題"},{"start":537.657,"end":551.817,"text":"我想中東戰爭把我們大家其實在整個全世界大家都進入到一個非常恐慌的一個氛圍在這裡我想請教主席總長如果這樣再持續再持續就是說"},{"start":552.998,"end":572.919,"text":"持續的一個戰爭下去的話 我們的油價每桶升到100塊的美元那這樣子的一個方式 我們的中油跟台電勢必要虧損這虧損 我們持續這樣給它算 如果是半年的話 中油要虧損1100億"},{"start":575.802,"end":598.887,"text":"那台電要300到800億,這個因為算不出來,大概是一個初估值那我們也知道說,中油跟台電都是大概都是接近98%的那個供應的那個公司那像這樣子的話,若暫時持續超過半年的話,若是"},{"start":599.787,"end":628.532,"text":"演變成未來財政上的一個漏洞還是結構性的一個調漲的壓力的時候主委長怎麼辦針對這個部分因為戰爭而負的政治責任是動漲這個部分而導致的一個損失按照道理我們是應該要增資這些公司或給他一個補貼那這個部分我們是希望說對他來增資那目前呢"},{"start":629.192,"end":649.388,"text":"中友也有提出來三年增資要3500億這個部分我們也是希望盡量能夠來支持那也希望貴院能夠來支持這個部分讓它能夠因為政策而讓我們的一個物價穩定這個部分所導致的損失能夠有所補償所以你會直接就是那個就是編列的那個就是補貼了"},{"start":651.189,"end":671.519,"text":"因為他有提報三年要增資三千五百億的一個計畫到經濟部所以這個部分呢包括中友包括台電這個部我們也希望說貴委員會的委員能夠全力來支持以上那你會主動協助我們也會主動協助因為他負有一些政策的一個任務那當然是一定要主動協助了謝謝兩位謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167470","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167470","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f66c6f6291bc2ceb139845512775efda3752953553f5c947520be9ff9e72e124835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林德福","委員發言時間":"09:19:52 - 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這其實整個我們根據經濟部它三四月其實它的油價天然氣它都已經安排好那以後呢它也陸續一直在安排就事先去取得所以縱使是說有所延長對我們的影響也不會很大當然延長的部分我們這邊整個一個穩定物價小組就會有各項的一個措施來做一個因應所以這個部分我們一直在密切注意當中我希望說未雨綢繆"},{"start":161.831,"end":172.26,"text":"主計長因為主計總署公布今年的經濟成長率上看7.71%CPI消費物價指數115年預測是1.68%可是主計長相信跟我反映這7.71%的經濟成長好像只有"},{"start":185.672,"end":202.947,"text":"高科技的產業半導體才有那百分之二左右的消費者這些物價指數也跟鄉親們每天面對民生的開支包括物價高漲的實質體感的落差很大"},{"start":204.128,"end":225.408,"text":"那上班族民眾許多是外食族感受到許多業者調漲售價便當價格也調漲房租也上漲都讓民眾生活倍感壓力啊那我請問主計長你怎麼來看待整個統計數據與民眾感受的巨大落差你有什麼看法"},{"start":226.389,"end":248.049,"text":"其實是沒有落差的因為我們整個一個調查一個368項的一個品項它是有分各種但是我們也都針對各種也把它列出分列來表達讓大家來知道這個訊息我剛剛有特別提到說可能那些高科技產業當然他們的主要經濟成長是在那個區塊那至於說其他"},{"start":250.771,"end":279.319,"text":"就是他們感到這個落差很大這是不是代表我們CPI的統計的權重這個有失準數據沒有辦法反映在民眾的生活壓力上我們GDP的一個本身他說雖然是集中在AI但是AI也帶動其他產業的一個成長包括投資所以這個部分並不是說他沒有成長而是他成長的幅度"},{"start":279.679,"end":300.835,"text":"沒有AI的那麼大所以本身包括消費這部分都是有成長的所以整個CPI的部分像水果蔬菜最近都穩定了都穩定下現在是因為石油的關係但是石油關係的部分我們有環障的一個機制存在所以對民生的影響並不是很大"},{"start":301.756,"end":320.142,"text":"那個經濟部三月底將召開電價匯率的一個審議委員會那決定四月的電價那你也是主計總署也是電價匯率審議委員之一啊那政府機關代表之一那我請問主計長對於電價主計總署你們的立場是希望動漲電價還是調漲電價"},{"start":326.721,"end":342.032,"text":"我們以這個時機我們希望說我們有一個物價穩定小組我們都希望能夠還漲所以像石油天然氣都還漲所以我們這方面也希望到時候盡量是朝這個方向讓人民能夠安定穩定"},{"start":343.393,"end":351.697,"text":"因為中東戰火前夕中油累計虧損已達804億那中油原先預估今年可轉虧為盈獲利目標是80億看來應該是有很大的難度那中油兼護穩定物價政策針對中油虧損請問主席長中央是否有對討論過116年變異算來撥補中油有沒有這樣的想法"},{"start":373.366,"end":391.486,"text":"中友目前有向經濟部提出四年的一個增資計畫那我們這個會把它納入計畫裡面來針對中友來增資然後以協助他度過這個難關好 我希望齁 這個要就是放長遠一點去看啦那我來繼續問那個沈記長那個沈記長"},{"start":395.31,"end":414.261,"text":"因為審計部發展AI審計強化應用AI人工智慧來查閉以協助第一線的審計官來辦案那媒體報導說副審計長李順寶一夜已經就退休被鴻海集團延攬那本席當然我也祝福他"},{"start":414.921,"end":424.111,"text":"由於前副審計長李寶順對於AI的這些科技應用相當熟悉那請問審計部那個審計長李寶順副審計長退休以後是否會影響審計部未來推動AI審計的這項工作會不會"},{"start":433.127,"end":449.899,"text":"謝謝委員關心這些問題李副審計長是在我們審計部任職期間對於審計業務都所貢獻至於他退休後個人的生涯規劃是個人職來的選擇本部予以尊重及祝福"},{"start":453.723,"end":467.377,"text":"我們這一方面的人才 世衛的人才 AR的人才非常的多啦所以我們也會從育才訓練 我們一年訓練了一千多人次也會從攬才 也會從留才 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謝謝主席 我請一下主委請國會議員主委"},{"start":14.616,"end":39.902,"text":"主委早主委早所以我想這個剛聆聽了您的這個施政報告我想這個還是感到佩服國發會其實業務包山包海那這個從科技管到體育管到交通管到農業各方面都管講到體育的部分這個主委我請教一下您看棒球嗎我看棒球看嗎看了看了你是棒球迷嗎"},{"start":43.341,"end":61.984,"text":"應該算是,但投入的程度可能沒有非常的投入我想這個上個禮拜,或者是一直到今天為止,全世界都在封WBC那台灣英雄到日本去比賽的幾個場次,我相信主委您應該或多或少都會看了一下"},{"start":62.825,"end":76.278,"text":"那在這一次的比賽當中其實台灣隊裡頭有一個非常重要的選手叫做Stu Future他的媽媽是台灣人所以他被我們職棒的蔡會長延攬到這個台灣隊來代表台灣出賽"},{"start":78.46,"end":98.537,"text":"那表現非常的優異喔那比賽完 在比賽的過程裡頭其實就有非常多的網友一直在敲碗說這個趕快要給Future台灣的健保卡那要給台灣的身份證但是這些東西還沒有拿到以前呢我想國發會率先就提出了要給Future台灣的就業金卡"},{"start":99.478,"end":123.355,"text":"這個我也想要來跟這個國發會來討論一下我們的就業金卡其實實施到現在從2018年實施到現在為止我們的有效持卡人大概是8318人但是主要的持卡人的這個領域大概還是以經濟教育科技為主在體育的部分其實只有佔了25件這個比例相對來講是非常的少"},{"start":127.56,"end":151.248,"text":"我想請教一下國發會基於什麼樣的理由或者是基於什麼樣的考量你們對於Fairchild希望能夠發給他就業金卡有沒有是因為他在這個比賽裡頭表現優異還是說你們未來在所謂的體育領域上面的就業金卡的發放"},{"start":152.128,"end":178.997,"text":"或是審核有沒有一個標準或者是有沒有建立一個機制第二個問題我想請教就是說未來在體育項目我們的人才延攬的部分國發會有沒有一個專案計畫或者是說有沒有跟運動部去進行過討論未來我們在體育人才的延攬上面跟運動部有沒有什麼合作的計畫 來 主委"},{"start":180.457,"end":192.369,"text":"就委員的第一個問題來講的話就是說我們對於每一個領域他都會有一個審查的要點就那個Fairchild這個部分來講的話我們會協同運動部針對運動領域的第四點由職業運動聯盟或運動團體推薦然後據產業貢獻潛力的話會主動邀請他申請那個就業金卡"},{"start":204.56,"end":217.557,"text":"所以他還是要來申請你們是邀請他來申請還是你們要主動發一個就業人機卡給他我們已經主動跟運動部那邊聯絡了那也把一些申請的一些文件都已經給運動部"},{"start":220.501,"end":237.408,"text":"好 你一次就回答了我兩個問題其實這個跟運動部其實是有做過討論但我要提的是說台灣其實現在的整個體育的發展已經在蓬勃的進展當中不只是棒球 籃球 甚至羽球或者是有很多的項目"},{"start":238.248,"end":251.181,"text":"更或甚至不只是選手連教練或者是他們的防護員等等他其實是一個產業鏈的所以像這些東西是不是國發會也能夠持續的跟運動部來進行更多的討論"},{"start":254.685,"end":276.901,"text":"或者是我們的國訓中心大概也會需要很多類似這樣的一些教練等級或者是防護員等級是不是也能夠提供給他們這樣子的一個就業金塔我覺得我認為這是對他們來講是一種honor也是對台灣的選手的另外一種職業的保障訓練上面的保障你同意我的看法嗎"},{"start":277.361,"end":292.646,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們目前也在跟運動部接洽就是說我們其實有百億的主題式的百億基金我們也在跟邀請某個程度來講邀請運動部來申請這樣的一個主題式的百億基金那這樣一個百億基金的話"},{"start":293.546,"end":317.907,"text":"運動部就可以開始規劃他要用什麼樣的一個計畫來針對教練針對防護員針對什麼樣的一個比如說整個運動產業鏈上面哪一個關節他覺得必須要有資金挹注的話那都可以經由這樣的一個主題式的百億基金來做一個資金的一個挹注這樣子好 我希望在這個部分上面我期許國發會能夠更積極主動一點"},{"start":321.07,"end":342.272,"text":"那第二個問題我要請教的在您剛剛的報告裡頭其實您談到了五大信賴產業我比較有興趣的是在這五大信賴產業裡面我們講的半導體人工智慧什麼次世代通訊安全控制等等其實這個大家都一直在談很特別是你們今天談到了一個軍工產業"},{"start":344.554,"end":359.293,"text":"這個軍工產業就是所謂的無人機的發展計畫但我覺得比較可惜就是說在國發會的報告裡面對於軍工產業對無人機的發展計畫只有短短的幾行字主委我想請教"},{"start":360.598,"end":383.23,"text":"五大信賴產業裡頭您在軍工的這一個發展的比重上面會佔多少無人機的運用現在大家最廣為人所知的是運用在戰爭上面不對等的作戰烏克蘭的戰爭我想很多包括這個媒體都有寫台灣製造的無人機出口暴增而且是流向二烏戰爭"},{"start":386.323,"end":408.153,"text":"除掉了戰爭的這個因素以外其實無人機的運用場域可說非常的廣包括我們在農業上面的無人機噴藥或者是在醫療上面的用無人機去送藥無人機的救援等等生活是在昨天結束的嘉義燈會用無人機點亮了嘉義的夜空"},{"start":409.44,"end":434.845,"text":"所以整個無人機它不只是在軍工產業上面我認為它是在整個無人載具的發展上面我想知道到底國發會要用多少的比例多少的心去協助或者是去扶植這樣的一個產業起來那不對等的作戰其實在武器的構制上面台灣面臨著非常大的困難"},{"start":435.825,"end":457.933,"text":"不只是對外買軍購困難甚至連在台灣自己在國會裡頭都被處處自走所以在軍工產業的發展上面國發會應該要怎麼樣做協助就軍工產業這個部分來講我先跟委員分享就是說無人機這個部分來講我們的產值2028年預估要達到產值大概有300億2028年嗎2028年對2028年預估的"},{"start":464.395,"end":490.608,"text":"今年會預計會到200億那我們也會配合的整個國際的情勢比如說像美國現在正在推所謂的非紅供應鏈尤其是在無人機這一塊那我們也會努力的透過經濟部的一些輔導專案讓台灣的那個無人機的產業能夠在台灣落地生根以及增加它出口的產能因為非紅供應鏈這一塊的市場其實相當大就好像委員剛才有提到就是說我們"},{"start":494.63,"end":510.776,"text":"無人機的出口暴震的大概35倍主要都流向惡物戰爭那以未來的話其他的一些應用端上面來講就好像委員講到他可以用在農業上面他可以用在防洪防災上面那這個部分來講的話至於比例我現在沒有辦法跟委員"},{"start":511.536,"end":531.01,"text":"保證但是整個的發展以及焦點我們會放在這個部分同時我們也很我們也在關注整個軍工產業的發展不管是在日本或是以色列我們希望都透過所謂的創投的這樣的一個基金去挹注他然後去得到一些關鍵關鍵性的一些技術跟零件"},{"start":531.851,"end":542.428,"text":"謝謝主委的回答因為時間到了我就不耽誤但是我想私下我想還要再繼續請教一下主委對於這個產業我們的輔導方向跟我們能夠提供的協助方向好不好 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甚至俄罗斯的S-300的防空系统甚至伊朗自己本身也有研发了巴瓦尔373的防空系统等等可是我们看到面对美军的大规模的空袭可以说"},{"start":43.726,"end":52.108,"text":"伊朗是毫無這個招架之力那所以也顯示了像中國啦、俄羅斯跟伊朗他們的這個防空系統的整合是出了這個問題那我們台灣目前有這個美制的愛國者飛彈還有這個我們自己自製的這個天宮系列飛彈還有我們各式防空雷達"},{"start":61.431,"end":73.819,"text":"那如果說我們在面對這個敵方飛彈跟無人機飽和攻擊或是電子干擾情況之下目前我們的防空系統整體的運作韌性是否還是有很多不足的地方這部分能簡單說明一下嗎"},{"start":75.61,"end":98.979,"text":"我跟委員報告然後後續假設不足的部分我再請次長做個說明那第一個部分是我們現在的防空系統他已經有建置了長期的預警雷達能夠縮短整個空中威脅告警的時間那第二個目前來說整個防空系統整體運作上面是沒有問題但是我們從近期的從俄烏戰爭到"},{"start":100.82,"end":124.757,"text":"最近的伊朗跟以色列還有美軍的這一個作戰當中我們可以發現到防空系統在後續整體的運作韌性以及戰場管理系統是一件非常重要的事情所以就現在我們為什麼要建造這一個台灣之盾非常重要一件事情是我們希望把整個我們所有的防空系統能夠做一個有效的整合能夠達到一個分層防禦"},{"start":126.238,"end":137.474,"text":"高效的感知以及有效攔截所以這也是委員所提示我們希望在運作韌性上面能夠做另外一個高度的強化這是我們目前在做的事情"},{"start":138.243,"end":154.11,"text":"OK 那再來一點就是說我們在這個伊朗的這個線上我們看到就是說其實這個電子戰是非常重要的不是只有這個硬砂其實像軟砂的部分其實也是非常的重要那之前我有看到這個媒體報導就是說我們的台美軍國當中我們可能會引進這個美國"},{"start":159.612,"end":175.607,"text":"最先進的這個IBCS系統來做這個合作這部分我們有做過相關的這個磋商嗎我們跟美方這邊有談到這個部分的這個系統的引進嗎當然現在IBCS跟其他的戰場管理系統是我們現在的選項之一"},{"start":179.571,"end":192.72,"text":"這個部分後續如果有必要我們在委員的辦公室再跟委員詳細做個說明因為他目前來說只是在做一個評估以及相關的這個當然也是我們的選項之一"},{"start":193.345,"end":209.823,"text":"美方有在做評估就是說在台美跟美方有做相關的一個研究跟有做這方面的研究所以這部分的話後續的話細節的部分到水國防部會到本席辦公室來做一個說明這裡是不方便做細節的透露是不是"},{"start":210.483,"end":224.19,"text":"OK 好了解那當然我們有看到就是說今天我們國防部的這個報告裡面有提到不管我們要做怎麼樣的一個建制來講比如說我們國軍已經有建制了長城預警雷達或是多元的這個監偵系統或是說我們現在正在要規劃籌獲的中科院研製的天宮四型重層反飛彈系統"},{"start":237.156,"end":255.427,"text":"或者是未來我們規劃要引進高科技的AI人工智慧的戰場管理系統等等我想這些都是要屬於中長程的規劃甚至更是需要預算的支持我在想國防特別條例很快我們就要來做審查"},{"start":257.688,"end":275.72,"text":"我想很快我們國防外交委員會很快就要來做排定可是呢剛剛我們所提到的不管是這個防空系統的建制或者是說這個總總剛剛我們所提到的報告所提到的總總的所有的這個裝備的這個設置都需要這個預算來"},{"start":280.763,"end":308.048,"text":"那我們也提到就是說其實在我們防空系統方面其實我們還有很多需要去做加強的部分尤其看到這個伊朗這次面對中國的這個伊朗在面對美國的這個強烈的砲轟毫無招架之力更是讓我們覺得這個防空系統建制的這個重要性可是呢我們看到這個各個版本的國防特別條例我們來看一下國民黨的版本也好或是民眾黨團的這個版本也好"},{"start":309.608,"end":337.383,"text":"我們發現行政院版裡面所提到的防空反彈道及反裝甲飛彈裡面防空系統的部分還有反彈道系統的部分其實已經被他們拿掉了被他們拿掉了這跟今天的這個題目其實有很大的這個反差我想我們的主席今天會排這個題目其實也是看到這個伊朗面對美國的這個砲轟其實在防空系統方面需要有很多加強的這個地方"},{"start":338.664,"end":366.77,"text":"可是很可惜的就是說國民黨團的這一個國防特別條例民眾黨團的特別條例裡面把防空系統跟反彈道這全部都拿掉了只留下反裝甲飛彈反裝甲無人機飛彈系統的這個部分這部分的部分國防部需要特別再說明一下嗎現在被國民黨團跟民眾黨團拿掉了對整個防空系統來講的話是不是有很大的一個危機這個部分要不要再說明一下"},{"start":367.962,"end":368.846,"text":"這部份請詹惠思"},{"start":371.352,"end":397.872,"text":"我們這邊要向委員報告一下我們整個軍事投資的規劃是依照我們的計畫預算制度來的所以不論哪一個版本我們都必須要符合我們的計畫預算制度才有辦法執行我們現在的所有的項目不是只有項目跟金額而已我們在前面都已經耗了很冗長的時間去完成我們的建案文件整理獲得規劃書那"},{"start":400.234,"end":423.375,"text":"接下來才是完成我們的預算書表那這兩個項目其實在去年的時候都已經奉行政院核定了也就是說這些所有的規劃項目它都已經在我們完整的計畫預算制度的範圍之內如果沒有辦法符合的話勢必造成我們後面所有的文件必須重修尤其在需求段落的部分"},{"start":424.505,"end":447.799,"text":"如果只有看到金額,看不到需求,那我們整個計畫勢必被完全打亂。那這個部分是第一個嚴重的問題。那第二個問題是,我們在需求端,事實上包含了很大成分的整合,是放在我們的商購跟偽製案裡面。那委員知道AI人工智慧技術的變化,它是非常快的。"},{"start":448.379,"end":464.254,"text":"如果說我們今天用一個比較僵化的軍售去購買的話很容易造成我們東西拿到之後到後面還要花很大的力氣跟很大的金額去更改所以在這個規劃的部分我們"},{"start":465.276,"end":481.578,"text":"針對商員已經去做過很多的調查以及討論包含國內外所以這個部分也希望委員能夠支持我們在這個部分就系統整合上面跟我們作戰需求上面已經做了長期的評估以及對於我們未來的展望跟需求"},{"start":482.85,"end":484.932,"text":"OK 我在想這部分我之前有看過顧立雄這個部長曾經提到就是說像國民黨的版本也好或民眾黨的版本看起來這個所謂操盤手在寫這些條例的這些操守"},{"start":500.327,"end":523.281,"text":"應該是都沒有來開過我們的這個機密會議我們的國防的這個委員會的這個會議所以寫出了一些非常荒腔走板的一些版本那當然本席有看到民眾黨的這個版本真的是非常的可笑應該說是因為國防特別條例它是法案但是法案跟預算案是傻傻分不清所以它把這個金額然後還有這個件數套件等等全部都寫進這個法律案裡面"},{"start":527.563,"end":541.097,"text":"當然也看得出來他們對這個對這個編列這個所謂的預算或是法案這部分是完全搞不清楚狀況那再來我當然如果說有仔細的了解國防部來聽過國防來參加過我們國防委員會"},{"start":542.859,"end":565.039,"text":"會的這個會議其實會覺得說國民黨團的版本跟民眾黨團的版本真的是天馬行空甚至呢把很多重要的一些我們的系統性的建制或者是一些我們要跟美方共同研發的一些裝備跟系統其實呢全部都拿掉了那剛剛我也提我也看到我們的題目有提到我們如何來建設這個所謂低成本"},{"start":566.921,"end":595.912,"text":"那高效率的一些裝備其實像這無人載具跟其反制系統在我們的國防特別條例的第三條裡面有特別提到可是我在國民黨的版本跟民眾黨的版本裡面這部分也是被拿掉的所以說今天的題目其實跟我們的行政院的國防特別條例其實這個題目應該是來支持行政院的版本才對可是很可惜的就是說國民黨的版本跟民眾黨的版本是反其道而行"},{"start":596.312,"end":598.113,"text":"我想下個禮拜我們應該還會進入到這個審議的這部分跟組條的部分我也希望說在野黨的委員能夠審慎然後理性的來審議這個條例因為這對國家的安全來講是非常的重要"},{"start":612.424,"end":630.39,"text":"这些那也希望就是说经过今天然后呢这个下个礼拜的这个我们对这个国防特别条例的讨论能够让朝野政党的能够进入理性的这个检讨我想这个对国家的安全来讲这是非常重要的这个程序好以上谢谢"}]}},{"id":"167486","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167486","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f69ae78c0f3af4c388f4d454d79684183a9ba3647d0b3df3c8bf7f96ea759d50d05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"10:02:51 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反觀背心、頭燈、手套還有避難帳篷、綠色設備還有我們比如說儲能電源這些都是避難的帳篷、儲能電源,對嘛這些嘛這些體積大不大"},{"start":254.831,"end":268.961,"text":"所以我們必須要協調有一個空間,把這些物資放在那邊,緊急使用的時候可以來用我很支持這個韌性這個機構,我非常的支持但是你要放在村里長那邊"},{"start":270.141,"end":299.041,"text":"不見得放在村裡面我們要找一個儲存場所哪個儲存場所 幫他找嗎還是他自己去找應該是來協調啦就什麼地方可以讓物資可以緊急在使用的時候可以用得到所以你現在是還沒協調齁還是還不能夠做這個保溫是明年的預算來執行明年的預算你今天補座就空了你現在補座啦 今天協助中心的設備這今年要執行368的相關設備我是要提醒你"},{"start":300.422,"end":318.658,"text":"這個我完全都支持但你有些這些,我跟你講全台灣有多少村裡沒有李明活動中心?我們7748處沒有錯不是啦,有多少沒有活動中心你知道嗎?這個我不清楚"},{"start":320.519,"end":340.322,"text":"你不知道嘛,我跟你講啦,以我們整個新北,就以板橋來講,126個里只有70個活動中心你還有很多沒有啦,這些東西他要放在哪裡?"},{"start":341.363,"end":368.776,"text":"所以這個還在協調我們要跟村裡好好的溝通找到適當的訴訟我要跟署長你說的在一般非都市化的地方你要找這個地方比較容易可能廟可能誰家的這個比較容易放但在都會區的地方寸土寸金"},{"start":370.237,"end":385.438,"text":"你要怎麼協調 你要去哪裡找因為我們這一次的編日預算每個村里是四五萬塊那四五萬塊我們在盤點說有哪些是必要的那這個部分再來確認說每個村里到底你愛什麼東西"},{"start":386.579,"end":412.125,"text":"那要放在什麼地方可能有收納場所這些物資儲存場所都可以來放這為給我們一些時間我知道你現在講的就是一個理想就是你一個計畫那我現在聽你這樣子的回答可能你的細部啊你的還沒規劃到那吧對我們先從今年鄉鎮施工所會做那明年度是春禮七千多的春禮明年計畫來執行對啊"},{"start":413.965,"end":428.545,"text":"你明年就要做啦所以同步來執行來考慮我以我的經驗你要村里長這些有的很多地方尤其都會區他沒有地方放"},{"start":429.383,"end":444.732,"text":"但沒有地方放我不是說不做喔我是說你要及早因應喔你要去處理喔他沒有活動中心的人叫他放在他家喔他絕對不會答應的啦對不對他絕對不會答應的嘛所以你應該去盤點齁"},{"start":448.053,"end":470.445,"text":"有的郊區的,他雖然沒有里民活動中心,但他有社區活動中心,對不對?但那不是村里長可以去管轄的,那不是他,對不對?這個很多東西,我是要提醒你,要儘早去盤點你不要到時候這筆錢,然後買了東西下去,結果"},{"start":471.665,"end":486.675,"text":"變成到時候村里長跟你講說他沒有辦法他沒有怎樣我擔心的不是他沒有地方放你這些東西是不是所有是要列冊要不要當然要列冊到時候如果少了一樣的話"},{"start":492.814,"end":499.485,"text":"哇,問題麻煩了,對不對?所以你們要及早去因應這個問題啦好,感謝委員關心,謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167485","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167485","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6d61bb0ff7dd039140bc6757ec415edbe9ba3647d0b3df3c80cc001442e8e29285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"09:58:57 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國防會在3月9號你表示1月份的景氣燈號是亮紅燈認為國內的經濟是穩定的成長但是在同樣這個時間裡頭我們看到中東的戰勢升溫而且赫姆茲海峽這個航運受阻所以在整個全球能源的供應是進入到緊張的狀況"},{"start":48.477,"end":53.101,"text":"所以我們看到世界各國都已經開始在做管控或者是節能的育肥動作像印度他們很多的餐館也有準備要歇業因為能源問題"},{"start":64.551,"end":69.279,"text":"像這個越南他也要求企業必須要遠距辦公室來節省來節省這個燃料的這個部分他們都在節燃那在我們國內我們看到台塑化"},{"start":79.975,"end":104.55,"text":"跟台塑它發出了不可抗拒的通知所以在上游的乙烯跟丙烯供應不是很確定不是很確定那下游塑膠包塑膠包材的部分報價也已經都在上漲而且據聞大概市場價上漲了兩成六兩的塑膠提袋漲幅也大概有四成左右"},{"start":105.33,"end":116.565,"text":"那尤其在醫療用的這個乳膠的手套這個非常的重要在醫界裡頭那也出現了缺貨也有廠商他不敢報價他也不敢報量在這樣的一個情況之下呢"},{"start":123.287,"end":139.012,"text":"這個桶裝瓦斯桶裝瓦斯現在啊大概有漲了大概40塊左右坊間在查問所以顯示的能源的衝擊已經從整個石化的產業趨向在民生的這個末端裡頭"},{"start":140.294,"end":158.874,"text":"但是在我們官方裡頭我們是看到一個這個紅燈而且是穩定的一個成長所以我們沒有看到能源緊縮所帶來的結構性的一個能源結構風險那在整個的評估"},{"start":160.275,"end":177.964,"text":"主委我要請教當全球都已經進入到能源爭奪跟供應商不是很確定的一個時代連石化業的原料都出現不可抗力民生物資也開始在漲價的這個情況那你的連續亮紅燈你是不是會擔心"},{"start":184.227,"end":192.854,"text":"有沒有將剛剛本席所說的這一些的因子放入在裡面還是你認為我們的人員沒問題我們有買不完的這個原料來源請教主委"},{"start":197.847,"end":213.423,"text":"因為那個中東的那個軍事衝突是在2月底的時候啊那我們那個國發會那個緊急登號2月的時候其實是在統計資料以前這個部分也要謝謝主委你真正承認 主委等一下主委你等一下主委"},{"start":217.026,"end":242.649,"text":"那我要給社會大眾了解 因為大家有疑慮那也謝謝主委你說的你是在二月初發布這個紅燈的這個部分那這一些的事項在二月中二月底陸續出來所以你換句話說二月初所發布的這個紅燈是沒有包括剛剛本席所說的中東的戰爭以及能源的這個危機 是不是"},{"start":244.022,"end":247.285,"text":"我們發布的是1月的緊急度對 所以沒有納入嘛沒有納入嘛2月的我們還沒有對 好 來請說明對 就這個部分來講的話因為正副院長召開的那個穩定物價小組的話他現在是變成是每一個禮拜他都會開"},{"start":262.316,"end":273.846,"text":"在上個禮拜他也宣示了大概五項措施那也就是雙環長以及專案的環長還有對於器材油以及大中原物料的稅賦上面的減增來講的話也擴大到50%那對於農業部這個部分來講的話他也持續的在關注所謂的肥料的價格這個部分"},{"start":287.617,"end":302.75,"text":"那其他的一些政府部門也都會關注著整個物價的那個波動的情勢那避免那個業者在哄抬價錢或是壟斷還好主委你說明了因為你在3月9號表示今年1月是紅燈大家會一誤以為"},{"start":306.693,"end":311.516,"text":"我們還都是2月3月都是紅燈會誤以為所以本席也希望你們所做的措施要給社會大眾來了解我們理清楚要將這些的因子納入進來那講到了末端的民生這是最重要的所以本席具體建議統裝瓦斯不能漲好好的照顧我們民生的這個價格穩定請說"},{"start":334.751,"end":348.304,"text":"經濟部好像是有宣布就是說不是好像啊連你都不知道什麼叫好像你是國防會主委掌控了所有的最重要的各部會的資訊你還笑得出來你今天這個這麼重要跟對於我們民生的"},{"start":352.848,"end":356.791,"text":"這個物價漲因為你統裝瓦斯漲我們小吃店要漲小吃店漲民生又全部一起漲那這怎麼辦呢你怎麼會連這個都不知道呢因為3月的話我們是不會漲的然後之後會再跟中友這邊來協調所以本期具體要求統裝瓦斯是牽涉到民生非常重要的關鍵絕對不能漲好不好"},{"start":381.864,"end":409.082,"text":"會來協調 3月已經不會漲了但4月的話我們會 接下來幾個月我們會看那個整個中東的那個軍事衝突的規模以及所以主委 以身為我們國防會的主委我是很敬重你這樣子重大的政策跟民生的議題一定要清清楚楚一定要清清楚楚 讓人民放心所以我再次具體要求這樣子的不可抗拒的因子存在的時候我們的統裝瓦斯一定不能漲好好的照顧民生 對不對"},{"start":410.043,"end":435.111,"text":"好謝謝你的回答這個點頭是對的那麼本席要請教在我們能源方面卡達的供氣不確定性一直在增加那我們現在雖然有14個國家但是卡達的這個進口量還是佔了三分之一在剛剛你們所說的你們有去調整但是我們看到我們的這個液化天然氣安全準量是大概12天日本"},{"start":436.751,"end":443.336,"text":"30天韓國50天在這樣情況之下行政院推出我們可以短期的這個趕快去買增加美國的這個這個這個企業的這個佔比但是照目前短期來說我們到底要怎麼樣能夠讓人民安心我相信能源的不足會"},{"start":459.127,"end":475.276,"text":"它的供應已經不穩定的如果成為常態性的話那對於整個產業對於整個國安以及對於整個經濟的內心它是影響非常的大所以身為國防會的主委本席要請教我們未來要怎麼"},{"start":476.397,"end":497.67,"text":"去應對剛剛本席所說的這個能有問題不能只有說我準備四月份要火力要開這個本席站在我台中的立場中火的部分我們依照既有的量數都已經有制度有規範也要照顧我們中部地區人民的這個健康這是本席非常的堅持請教 請說明"},{"start":499.551,"end":509.841,"text":"跟委員報告就是說經濟部已經啟動液化天然瓦斯他有三個措施一個是提前調貨然後在亞洲部分也在做調貨還有從市場買現貨三個階段來存"},{"start":515.886,"end":541.306,"text":"該做那個調度的作業那目前可以確保的是國內3月跟4月的天然液化天然瓦斯供應是沒有問題的那也會完成國際新的新約的簽訂那從6月起的話美國的那個進口的氣的那個天然氣會這樣大幅提高那個比例那同時也掌握了很多傳奇的一些調度這樣子那在3月的話統裝瓦斯是不會漲的"},{"start":543.116,"end":565.628,"text":"所以這個能源的部分本席還是具體建議因為這個比照國安的這個議題非常的嚴肅的一個議題你只有說在3月份沒問題但是我們的安全存量是不是還是依照目前的只有12天因為日本30天韓國50天我們到底是什麼民眾不清楚我希望你把具體的"},{"start":567.489,"end":572.471,"text":"這個這個天數以及怎麼調配給社會大眾來了解也給本席一個書面資料最後我給你一個功課也就是我一直強調的我們的人口已經達到26個月負成長我也跟你前任的這個主委一直在討論這個議題跟你討論過"},{"start":586.619,"end":603.395,"text":"所以本席給你一個功課也就是在今年2月份的時候我們看到這個數字是破天荒的數字而且我們預估今年的出生率大概不到9萬人那在這樣的情況之下會影響到我們整個的生產力也一樣"},{"start":603.936,"end":618.402,"text":"比較國安的議題在做嚴肅的一個討論目前你們所做的生育養育這一些的政策在做但是我們看到的答案反而是越來越下降所以我本席具體建議請你去盤點目前你的這個方案已經不可行的時候你要怎麼樣去調整你的精進方案你把這個精進方案一個月內給本席好好的去研議"},{"start":631.127,"end":658.143,"text":"要不然你用了這麼多錢但是你的答案反而是預估今年是達不到9萬那這個是大家非常憂心的一件事情因為你要怎麼樣將人口的結構好好的去規劃那這個是本席具體要求一個月內將你們經濟的方案給本席好 謝謝好 非常謝謝楊瓊議員那請葉主委一個月之內提供也委員需要的資料好 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有請中副部長好 有請中副部長"},{"start":11.98,"end":34.655,"text":"黃委員好您好我們今天就關於在左院長利用松子步去日本看棒球那本席感覺得出來你們也是處於無奈因此本席不會特別責怪空軍但本席還是希望國防都可以協助釐清一些問題那畢竟這件事"},{"start":36.036,"end":43.626,"text":"不是那麼單純的知不知此的棒球而是牽涉到官員以上旗下"},{"start":45.643,"end":66.388,"text":"然後迫使下級機關承擔他們的不該承擔的責任甚至嚴重到以私人身份濫用國防的資源那從媒體的報導中可以知道那左院長包機使用松子部的前一天找了很多相關機關去行政院開專案會議"},{"start":68.961,"end":93.8,"text":"開會一定會有一個開會的通知那本行想要知道開會通知的內容包含發文機關會議主旨開會時間是否為上班的時間那開會地點是否為行政院的會議室開會通知可以公開給本委會是不是可以提供一份"},{"start":95.403,"end":100.038,"text":"一份這一份包含開會的組織能不能提供"},{"start":103.186,"end":131.004,"text":"委員好 我是龔金參謀長跟委員報告那針對剛剛您提到這個會議的部分通知的部分我們都是受到電話通知那召開 與行政院是召開語音的這個方式來做一個會議那邀集相關的單位剛剛您有提到這邊我也不方便做其他的這個單位的回答那這個是沒有正式發函我們是受到電話的通知召開的這個專案會議"},{"start":133.43,"end":153.688,"text":"既然是電話通知而且是松子部包機到日本去第一個我們去想像如果是從松子部包機到任何地方一定是以什麼以他的這個公文為主"},{"start":154.306,"end":177.048,"text":"所以實為公務,公務的行為所以如果是以私人的角度不應該要用公務行為來包機來以下,以上欺下然後責怪到你們這個機關現在很多人誤會,送死部到底是誰的指令你們會願意這樣子"},{"start":180.037,"end":207.923,"text":"冒那麼大的風險然後他們沒有任何的行文然後只是用電話裡面來指示你們要包機用私人的行程裡面這樣的行為已經構成了很多是不是這個比如說堵職或者是有很多的這樣的一個違反公務法的第七條你看看我們想一想"},{"start":208.723,"end":237.202,"text":"我們過去很多的監察院監察院這個所糾正的像秘書長李俊逸監察委員林玉榮王榮章蘇麗瓊遭揭露私用公務車社會觀感非常差所以左院長堅持是私人的事務但動用多個行政機關為了他的私人行程的開會"},{"start":238.824,"end":267.407,"text":"所以這可以說是向全國公務員做出一個最糟糕的示範所以我想你們未來在松子部如果它是真正的街道你們真正的街道是公務行程我想你們就必須要執行如果不是公務行程而是用電話告知然後它必須要包機到日本去你們必須要執行"},{"start":268.568,"end":283.962,"text":"來配合我想你們也有私子的一個問題所以你們提供你們在過程裡面提供給我們本委會一份資料好不好是"},{"start":284.872,"end":309.518,"text":"好 那另外一次是 我想請問一下部長 副部長我已經看了今天的報告 感覺不是在檢討我國對無人機攻擊的報告反而更像是推銷國會同意給錢買武器的一個縮帖那請問副部長 目前國軍防無人機作戰是由誰負責 你來回答"},{"start":310.37,"end":328.077,"text":"目前整個國軍反無人機的作戰是由參謀本部來規劃負責整個反無人機作戰所以參謀本部所謂參謀本部有沒有包含空軍有包含空軍有包含空軍當然他的參謀本部的指揮官就是由總長來負責好待會我會提出幾項的問題所在因為"},{"start":332.159,"end":350.697,"text":"你認為國軍目前對無人機攻擊最薄弱的地方是什麼據本席了解最薄弱的地方除了國軍缺乏反無人機的專用武器外還有什麼第一即使是無人機國軍主要針對的還是高價值"},{"start":351.874,"end":372.033,"text":"高價值的目標對小型無人機封群準備不足第二防無人機的能力集中的防空單位戰術單位卻很薄弱那尤其是小型的無人機這個封群對國軍的壓力非常大但這個在"},{"start":374.9,"end":401.134,"text":"蘭德公司和新美國安行中心的兵推中都已經明確的指出了這也是吐血我國防無人機作戰集中的防空單位的問題由於小型無人機的飛行距離有限無法從福建沿海直接跨越海峽飛到台灣所以共勤的小型無人機風起想要對國軍"},{"start":403.335,"end":430.88,"text":"構成威脅首先要取得什麼要取得制海制空權再由大型無人機或兩棲艦艇甚至以武裝漁船放飛無人機的風巡所以因此國軍最有效的反制無人機風行作為很大程度反而是在海軍的反艦作戰而不是空軍的防空作戰"},{"start":432.14,"end":448.585,"text":"當我們提到反制無人機的時候從來不會有人提出海軍在這個當中的角色所以部長要做到完整的防無人機體系各軍種要如何配合各自負責什麼樣的任務你來提一下"},{"start":449.485,"end":470.68,"text":"所以剛剛委員指導也非常正確就是說我們現在對於整個這個板子無人機的部分我們必須要將現在的整個防空5G上面去做一個整合包含到我們區分高層中層以及低層那如何有效做到這個分層的攔截高度的"},{"start":471.42,"end":499.254,"text":"感知以及有效的這個防禦有效攔截跟防禦這個部分這中間需要一個戰場管理系統去整合它那這也是我們目前在努力的手段所以我們目前整個這個反無人機的部分當然您剛剛指導非常正確的地方就是說風群的無人機戰術它目前可能施行的方式是從海上或者是登陸之後來做一個大量以及風群的一個戰術"},{"start":500.675,"end":520.713,"text":"目前在我們目前的所有狀態防護設施上面我們也已經建置了相關的一個板制的部分包含到無人機的板制系統機炮的一個板制系統甚至我們一區整體安全上面也律定了相關的一些規定能夠板制您剛剛所講的包含到一二類的三種無人機"},{"start":521.494,"end":542.219,"text":"因為實驗因素,第一個提出來的縱然是有幾項是重點,可是本席認為有很大的一個反差,為什麼?因為你們的準備不足,我本席提出完整的防無人性的體系應該有幾項,第一個空清負責空液,"},{"start":543.9,"end":563.401,"text":"監控與防空指揮第二海軍負責打擊海上無人機平台第三海巡針對武裝漁船或海上民兵船等灰色地帶來做一個監控那第四陸軍前線部隊反無人機第五"},{"start":565.37,"end":590.478,"text":"電戰部隊進行電子壓制與干擾這幾項就是你們應該要加強的現在我們的無人機反而現在是走傳統的傳統的這樣防空的體系我說這個也是很落後的我希望能夠跟我提出來的應該分層負責在各個單位裡面有五項提出來"},{"start":591.218,"end":612.294,"text":"因為國軍的無人性能力簡單來說只停留在傳統的防空體系所以跨軍軍種的配合薄弱還是缺乏體系化作戰的概念部長你認為我提出的這個有沒有道理"},{"start":613.014,"end":632.66,"text":"我簡單跟委員做個說明因為這個反制無人機系統台灣之盾是針對整個台灣本島的一個防空防疫去做一個整體的規劃那您剛剛所提有關艦隊防空以及海軍的反艦作戰或是基地防衛裡面其實各軍種各自有他自己的一個防務系統"},{"start":633.32,"end":659.543,"text":"那目前我們希望把台灣本島的所有的陸海空的一個高中低層的防空武器做一個有效的整合來因應防護台灣本島的一個防空那有關這個板制在有關這個爭奪制空制海權的部分各自軍種他當然有他自己本身的一個自我防衛的一個能力跟板建的能力這兩個部分是要分開在所以剛剛我已經提出來嘛"},{"start":660.223,"end":677.966,"text":"我們我國的反無人機的作戰集中在防空單位的問題由於這個小型無人機的飛行的距離有限所以無法從福建沿海直接跨越海峽飛到台灣所以它的距離"},{"start":678.827,"end":707.469,"text":"不夠遠所以要有什麼載具比如說反艦艇比如說要用民船民兵在過程裡面來做一個載運然後再來進行無人機的這樣的一個飛行戰鬥所以這個就是一個你們要思考的我們還是停留在一個傳統防空的一個系統嘛所以我今天要提的是我們買了這麼多的無人機但是我們今天要看它的"},{"start":708.25,"end":712.763,"text":"效能能不能達到他的標準所以你們要重新的檢討啊 好不好好 謝謝委員指導"}]}},{"id":"167479","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167479","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f634600a242a4aadc29a7ba446ded26d6b52953553f5c9475239797466756a34355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"09:42:42 - 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我們的預算以及防禦的成本所以這部分也已經納入考量當中簡單跟委員做個說明"},{"start":265.065,"end":293.564,"text":"我想我們從美伊之間的戰事還觀察到幾個現象包括伊朗雖然耗費巨資引進中國製的雷達還有二制的防空系統可是在這一次卻缺乏有效的整合使得美軍電戰干擾的作戰下讓他們整個系統都癱瘓失靈對於台灣來說我們有性能卓越的飛彈也有持續徵購相關的防空系統"},{"start":294.845,"end":322.103,"text":"在我們國造武器與美制系統之間的整合也是我們接下來要急需提升的部分避免未來出現像伊朗一樣的窘境我想這部分請教副部長我們如何確保未來在遭受中共高強度的電子干擾的攻擊之下還能夠有足夠的韌性來做抵抗避免各個防空單位退化成各自為戰的孤島"},{"start":324.642,"end":347.368,"text":"剛剛委員知道非常正確就是說目前來看中共對我在初期威脅最大是它的聯合火力打擊那這個聯合火力打擊裡面最重要就是它的不管是它的導彈飛彈或者是它的原火營對我們的部隊以及政府的關鍵基礎設施還有台灣人民當然造成非常大的一個傷害"},{"start":349.068,"end":368.834,"text":"所以為什麼要建造台灣之盾非常重要是我們希望能夠藉由分層的防禦高度的感知有效的攔截能夠藉由戰場管理系統跟江剛委員所指導的辦到美系以及我們自製的防空武器做一個有效的整合能夠藉由高度的感測"},{"start":370.154,"end":391.94,"text":"多建置高度感測的一個感測器那能夠自動分析管理然後藉由有效的這個板子來因應剛剛我所提的聯合火力打擊威脅的部分所以這部分已經納入我們專案辦公室當中每個禮拜以及每個月都會定期做一個檢討以及相關的會議"},{"start":394.261,"end":415.195,"text":"那也在每個月的工作進度會跟這個總統做一個進度的一個回報那確實從這一個國安以及國安部都有做相關的一個進度管制跟委員做個說明好那剛剛副部長您也大概有提及到這種低成本的作戰方式齁那在這一次這個"},{"start":417.642,"end":431.673,"text":"整個美國跟以色列還有伊朗的衝突之中還有這個俄烏戰爭我們都看到這個無人機的相關運用越來越吃重那在之前也傳出美軍在這個"},{"start":433.294,"end":462.336,"text":"一次的戰爭之中用1750萬美元的這種低成本無人機成功來摧毀伊朗的價值12億的防空設施在價值上出現不成比例的一個交換那我想我們對於相關的這種低成本的包括無人機還有相關防衛系統我們參考其他國家的經驗像以色列投入了這種鐵術雷射防空系統"},{"start":465.139,"end":479.975,"text":"據稱每一次攔截的成本只要幾塊美元而已美軍也部署梅羅普斯這種機動式的反無人機系統台灣雖然也有相關的裝備可以應對但是共軍如果發動這種"},{"start":482.738,"end":510.92,"text":"風群式的攻擊到底何種手段適合作為我們反制大量無人機侵略的一個方案也是我想來請教副部長的部分那面對這個中共可能更勝於伊朗的這種大量廉價無人機的攻擊威脅我們在低成本的這種攔截手段上在做法上如何來降低防禦的成本維持我們長期消耗的一個承載能力這個部分是不是請副部長大概再做簡要說明一下"},{"start":511.891,"end":525.549,"text":"跟委員回答第一個部分是我們考量到無人機的技術它更迭是非常快速的所以我們會透過國安部的創新小組DIO來引介目前已經成熟的自動化的槍砲以及無人機真弓還有電針"},{"start":526.77,"end":554.645,"text":"干擾的一個系統希望能夠結合到市場成熟的技術採小批量採購跟快速籌貨的方式來獲得這樣的一個戰力那第二個部分我們有藉由這個特別預算的這個部分希望在現有的飛彈技術基礎之上能夠沿著籌貨可執行遠程火箭彈攔截一個低成本的防護武器來建立世界的這個防禦能量那目前我們除了"},{"start":555.325,"end":579.332,"text":"去參考國外最新的這樣的一個技術跟低成本的防空武器之外因為我們國內目前也有自製研發的能量目前也在進行當中那第三個部分我們也會同步去籌購部署右標甲目標衛星定位以及加強我們所有重要目標的防護來強化我們有關被動防禦的部分這部分都同步在進行當中簡單跟委員做個說明"},{"start":581.193,"end":599.672,"text":"我們從現有的資訊來看,雖然伊朗在正規海空軍在這種死屍之怒中遭到嚴重打擊但是他們卻能憑藉所謂這種飛彈層和供應鏈的一個韌性在連續被轟炸十幾天之後依然維持反擊的能力"},{"start":600.573,"end":616.12,"text":"反應即便這個主動攔截失效透過高強度的這種被動防禦也能夠減少敵方空中偵察與打擊造成的損害更確保後續的反擊能力那對於台灣而言我們除了電網通訊節點"},{"start":618.741,"end":640.408,"text":"較為集中且脆弱那重要的這種軍事據點更可能是容易被鎖定的一個目標那我想這也許是中共在演習當中重點要打擊的一個科目並且一旦開戰我方可能會遭受到許多原火和無人機的飽和攻擊那對於這部分再請教副部長我們國防部針對關鍵設施的這種防護還有備援能力"},{"start":645.43,"end":660.512,"text":"用什麼方式來加強規劃我們如何提升自身戰力保存的這種機動化能力以維持我們反擊的一個能力包括東部的地下設施是否也需要做相關的檢討"},{"start":662.25,"end":678.41,"text":"簡單跟委員做個說明,第一個部分是我們現在對於國軍的所有重要的防護模樣搬到指揮所跟地下洞窟的部分我們從應該是說從前年去年到今年已經完成相關的評估"},{"start":678.951,"end":706.204,"text":"那也做了相關的一個評估的一個防護報告所以對固定的這一個重要目標跟指揮所的部分我們後續會採取剛剛委員所指導辦到這個掩體加固的部分那第二個部分就是我們也加強在作案當中一個疏散配置跟指揮所的一個轉移而避免遭受到這一個敵人從層的一個攻擊或者是在打擊當中我們指揮所沒辦法運作"},{"start":706.764,"end":724.778,"text":"因此機動指揮所以及預備指揮所的選刊也已經完成了相關的一個選刊跟部署當中那第三個部分就是剛剛也跟這個委員剛剛同時說明的就是說辦到這個右標假目標衛星定位的干擾系統"},{"start":725.658,"end":747.369,"text":"還有威脅信號也在我們的這個規劃當中或許會逐步在這樣的一個規劃當中逐步去完成來因應目前無人機的威脅對國軍甚至整個這個政府關鍵基礎設施還有台灣人民的一個威脅當中都在我們的整個台灣制盾的這個規劃當中逐步去實現它"},{"start":748.57,"end":770.72,"text":"好那參照近期這個其他國家的這種戰事那要建構我們國防安全的一個戰力需要長遠的這個規劃與務實的執行那這部分也再請我們國防部持續的精進那將國際間的相關實戰經驗轉化為確保我們台海和平實質防衛的一個量能好以上謝謝謝謝委員指導"}]}},{"id":"167478","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167478","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6631fcf77c68c01c69845512775efda3752953553f5c94752c0ae87ae6cfd03fb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"09:43:01 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我想剛剛回答那個委員的這個質詢當中有關於這個經濟成長率預估是7.71那之所以這樣會出現7.71的這個數字的GDP成長來自於出口的增加22.22投資呢增加4.24消費增加2.51那物價的部分呢CPI的部分控制在2%以內嘛 對不對"},{"start":42.898,"end":58.25,"text":"這個數字最新的數字你今天報告當中寫的一樣這個數字可是你當初預估的時候應該是二月戰爭還沒發生之前還沒有發生還沒有發生之前那你說你發生之後你可能會在五月的時候再進一步的調整嗎是我們在五月的時候還會開會來再做一個調整"},{"start":60.131,"end":77.578,"text":"做一個調整但是現階段來說大家就是擔心在GDP的部分會有什麼樣的衝擊在CPI的部分會有什麼樣的衝擊跟你預估的部分會有什麼樣的差異舉剛剛的例子來說的話其實你們當初設定的油價每桶是58.6美元當初設定是這樣子現在已經破了100美元也就是說它不是只有上漲25%而已"},{"start":88.582,"end":96.732,"text":"就數字上用基數來去換算的話不是上漲25%幾乎是要成長將近一倍那每增加10%你說減0.20.1"},{"start":101.64,"end":119.991,"text":"0.1那現階段那很明顯那衝擊蠻大的你有沒有可能在短期內先預估一下數字不用再等到五月來面對這個數字上的問題來做一個內部調整的修正讓外界可以知道說到底這一個中東情勢造成的影響在經濟成長的GDP跟CPU可能會造成的成長是多少"},{"start":121.531,"end":139.546,"text":"因為這個部分本身它的一個成長我們目前差不多石油和天然氣三四月目前是都沒有問題那大概五月以後所以現在如果說看戰爭它一個長短那目前來講的話就是剛剛講的如果調漲百分之十會影響到0.1那如果CPI會影響0.24那這個部分呢我們"},{"start":146.112,"end":165.839,"text":"因為目前我們也會有雙議長的一個那個就是我知道政策上有議長的問題嘛待會我們來討論議長的那個政策的一個推動的問題可是現階段除了議長之外其他的國家的處理方式啦就我知道美國的方式日本的方式他就把原來的這個戰備儲備的這個石油把它釋出嘛"},{"start":168.26,"end":192.382,"text":"他用釋出的方式來壓抑但是即便各國都已經在釋出這個石油的情況底下他的油價一樣是破百嘛你看如果是油價持續上升的話如果你加上沒有溢價的話那物價一定會波動嘛譬如講你一個漁船出去外面捕魚所耗的這個油費如果增加的話他捕獲的魚回來到市場一定會增加價格嘛"},{"start":192.642,"end":222.002,"text":"那一定會造成這個物價的波動嘛不是嗎所以說這連帶的關係的部分目前為止穩定物價小組比較做的部分還是黃小玉的免稅而已可是穩定物價小組現在對油電的部分是政府全部要吸收嗎如果政府全部要吸收的話那政府對於整個中油跟台電的負擔會越大剛剛雖然有委員講得很好聽但是事實上去年的台電要1500億的撥補的時候就被砍掉了不是嗎"},{"start":222.902,"end":241.139,"text":"對啊 那你確定中油接下來的政治一定會順利通過嗎那如果沒有通過怎麼辦我們會來努力 是這個部分我當然知道你持續努力啊但是問題本節目問題說沒有通過怎麼處理啊對啊這家公司可能就面臨這個可能會有"},{"start":242.663,"end":260.72,"text":"會有破損 不是破損而已 可能會倒台耶對 等於說台電和中央它必須背負利息背負利息對 所以就過往在野黨的態度是如此除了中俄跟台電的部分一般的民眾還是最關心那個GDP跟這個CPI的部分"},{"start":261.5,"end":276.051,"text":"不管是你0.1號0.24也好你至少要預估一下這個戰爭的短期中期跟長期可能的預期充足的三種模式出來嘛可是現階段來說你到了3月16號已經發生了15天之後我們沒有看到任何的一個你們的推估啊"},{"start":276.718,"end":302.365,"text":"我們一般GDP是三個月推估一次然後我們CPI是每個月都會推估所以一般現在就是變成我們在五月的時候會針對GDP裡面它各項的變數然後各項的變數去做確認然後它影響的變數是多少然後去推估那像CPI的話所以五月的時候才會再行修正就是了不論是CPI也好或GDP也好"},{"start":303.765,"end":330.603,"text":"每個月那GDP的話到五月我們會請專家學者還有各種專家來針對所以現階段的方式就是一樣是那個壓抑油價跟電價的方式來面對還有黃小玉的方式來面對這個過程好就面對這個過程那另外的部分那個增資中油增資的部分盡量說服盡量努力我們會盡量努力來說服各位委員"},{"start":331.462,"end":360.021,"text":"好 那另外一個部分有一個部分我們的總預算目前都還沒有通過那我們社福今天要透過追加預算的部分來處理這個部分我們知道這個社福今天的部分非常的重要且關鍵因為你在報告當中也提到說這個有效的覆蓋率的部分你們在今年度做一個首次的公佈希望做一個有效的提升這個是環環相扣的問題"},{"start":361.983,"end":378.142,"text":"這六項這個中低收入付的社福津貼總共的金額是高達65.9億之外你還有兩項喔國民年金的部分喔還有老農津貼的部分喔老農津貼跟國民年金的部分他要花費多少金額"},{"start":379.674,"end":401.053,"text":"老農如果是看一年是129那如果是兩個加起來嗎因為老農今天一年是129如果半年的話大概64.5國民年金也是他半年是85左右六大社會是65這樣子所以整個是如果是半年"},{"start":403.475,"end":429.19,"text":"這兩個半年增加的額度增加大概120億是不是對所以說總共加起來大概185億之多嘛如果這個追加預算還是會面臨一個問題啊如果在野黨Bagger的話那要怎麼處理第一個總預算要先過總預算沒有過總預算沒有過就沒有這個追加預算的問題可是問題我現在問你就是說這是法律上的問題啊你總預算沒有過你怎麼追加預算那我們怎麼是對外號稱說我們7月1號要上路"},{"start":430.882,"end":447.439,"text":"所以我們希望能夠在總預算請各位委員能夠先行審查因為現在我們總預算都還沒有審查那如果總預算要先審查我們在七月份追加預算才有可能上路那不然的話可能要再往後延遲"},{"start":447.819,"end":462.334,"text":"所以就只能往後延所以這是環環相扣不過我跟你跟那個主席講說這個其實老實說在民間是因應期盼所以我們在講這一個有關於這個社福津貼提高的話最佳預算的話大家眼睛都睜了很大"},{"start":463.015,"end":479.355,"text":"不論是從中低收入也好從老農今天也好或國民年金也好大家眼睛都睜很大都很期待這一筆啊這個追加預算趕快通過可是總預算沒有省追加預算就不可能嘛那為什麼我們追加預算可能有能夠付出這一筆錢呢因為你之前有算過嘛"},{"start":480.476,"end":508.118,"text":"所以說我們在113年的社會保障支出是2兆6953億嘛占整個GDP的10.5%嘛平均每人增加11.5每人平均是11.5萬嘛有效的覆蓋率是94.8嘛對本席再提醒妳一下我們的GDP呢從113年到115年齁增加的金額是5兆6千億啊我們有更多的籌碼"},{"start":510.077,"end":514.965,"text":"跟預算跟這些稅金可以來照顧這些弱勢嘛 不是嗎"},{"start":516.286,"end":541.704,"text":"所以說我們有機會提高這些覆蓋率所以對增加這些有效的覆蓋率跟提升這些社福津貼包括國民年輕或者是包括老農津貼也好國家財政應該是沒有什麼任何問題吧我們所以說如果有征服我們就盡量來提高一個這個社會津貼的一個覆蓋率對 沒有錯啊所以我們有這個實力可以做好這些事情這就是賴總統所說的好的素質要轉成好的生活不是嗎"},{"start":542.344,"end":568.614,"text":"所以今年我們大概整個一個六大社會今天我們是提高23.5%你從這個數字報紙上都有寫我們要去講的是說呢因為今年選舉年大家可能會又扣你帽子我們要講的是說過去長期以來我們累積的經濟實力可以照顧這些弱勢讓它有效的覆蓋這個才會建立一個正當性我只是提醒主席長這個部分最後我再跟主席提醒一下"},{"start":570.054,"end":593.166,"text":"現階段的話國民黨的版本的這個國防特別預算當中所提的這個金額啊等於是在挖坑給行政部門挑為什麼如果照國民黨的版本我們的負債從原來財發法的他們的第二個版本通過要負債這個舉債兩千九百九十二億結果呢這個國防部的部分又增加一千億有辦法這樣子處理嗎有沒有辦法舉債"},{"start":598.829,"end":618.688,"text":"還有這個空間嗎因為舉在它是分年啦一般我們1.25兆是分8年嘛所以一年差不多1000多億還可以Cover過去最後有一點我要提醒那個主席長因為之前呢財法法的這個部分行政院版本推出來作為一個優先法案"},{"start":619.409,"end":643.696,"text":"你做這個優先法案的一個前提底下一直以來在本委員會一直提醒你在事權跟財權的這個如何處理我們希望有一個版本出來我們還是在提醒你在你在推動這個同時當中你一直在提一直在討論但是已經一年多了我希望這個東西在財發法在討論過程當中能夠增加一些說服力好不好主席長請你費心一下也請沈記長"},{"start":645.497,"end":650.066,"text":"這個部分從你審計的角度反饋回來讓我們財發法能夠更加健全謝謝兩位 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40%可是我的公司的體量如果已經變成20億我的資本已經20億我舉借的數目是3億4億的時候絕對數字沒有增加但是那個比例是下降很多那國家的預算喔"},{"start":202.967,"end":224.217,"text":"不是跟個人的財務跟公司的財務不一樣不是債務越少越好因為我們要做一些資本門的投資資本門的投資它是會產出的就舉例我這個公司如果到銀行去舉竊我舉竊來的目的是增加生產增加生產之後是能夠再為公司賺進更多的錢這個是大家都"},{"start":225.277,"end":247.435,"text":"贊成這樣子的做法所有的總體經濟學 總體財政學大家都贊成這樣的講法所以台灣的負債比例到現在是27 25 26這個在全世界是少見難得的財政超級非常激烈我認為全世界排前三名"},{"start":248.766,"end":273.202,"text":"美國的超過他GDP的百分之百嘛日本最高嘛那中國隱藏的數字不算也高過百分之百以上啦那台灣百分之二十幾啊我覺得這是很健康也很好我們這些年的財政控管很好那至於沈記長常常在講的這些其實我在這邊十三四年了你每一年講的都一樣這個內容剛剛那五點"},{"start":277.429,"end":303.947,"text":"這十幾年來你把報告拿出來看都一樣因為你是在顧慮憂慮有這樣的風險而不是指證說現在就是這個樣子那你站在審計的角度一定是要把可能會發生的最不好的狀況就是醫生會把最不好的狀況說你如果在這個吃東西的時候不節制啊這個澱粉吃這麼多啊小心你有糖尿病啊什麼這個講並不是跟你講說你現在有糖尿病"},{"start":305.566,"end":330.334,"text":"這個兩件事情要弄清楚那我現在一個最大的問題是喔去年度應該要審結今年度的國家政府總預算就沒有審嘛那看起來也不會審啦你記不記得去年我就跟你講過你不要傻了 國民黨不會給你審的啦我現在看法也是一樣啦國民黨跟民眾黨加強還是不會審你去年的總預算"},{"start":332.059,"end":348.451,"text":"那現在可以通過一個700多億說你你只可以動用請問那個有沒有經過預算審查啊到底你用了之後會不會追究責任啊我舉個例子你裡面說700多億可以給你用那怎麼用也沒講啊序幕也沒有啊啊你敢用嗎"},{"start":352.496,"end":368.293,"text":"萬一妳用了之後他不認帳那妳怎麼辦呢是 就是怕這樣怕將來如果說用了不認帳那又做刪減那對行政人員來講這是違法然後也沒有 也是屬於自愛那妳知道他為什麼會通過說這個七星的718醫藥給妳用妳知道什麼原因嗎"},{"start":371.485,"end":398.812,"text":"因為政治的壓力 選民的壓力啊事情出來了之後 趕快拿個急救章要解決這個事情啊T-pass所有人都在用嘛 大家都在罵啊為什麼你們不審查預算啊 所以趕快用這個東西來搪塞來塞這個騙這些選民啦騙這些需要使用的人我跟你說喔 預算是全國人民共用的他不是哪一個黨派的啦"},{"start":400.097,"end":428.908,"text":"我在這個地方苦口婆心一再講喔如果你的第一預備金、第二預備金跟障礙準備金都不能用270億那個是救命的錢啊你將來台灣萬一發生地震發生颱風、發生淹水這些天災啊中央政府如果救災沒有任何一毛錢可以用欸那要怎麼辦?處理長跟我講要怎麼辦?到時候要怎麼辦?"},{"start":430.318,"end":452.73,"text":"對 因為現在五月汛期就來那有一些必須要事先做準備的免得將來颱風來的時候要沒有辦法因應所以像災害準備金和第二預備金 第一預備金這總共170億部分那這個部分是很重要的所以我們是希望能夠我如果沒有記錯的話三個加起來是270不是170喔170億"},{"start":456.772,"end":474.006,"text":"174我記錯嗎對 因為第二預備金80 災害準備金50其他的第一預備金40是這樣所以170好 那如果沒有這170現在萬一發生天災舉個例子嘛他們副總召花蓮上次不是地震嗎是"},{"start":474.426,"end":488.993,"text":"阿他不是要求我們要去救災嗎那你到時候 媒體上大家又互相推責 又吵得不可開交阿中央政府 無非無罪啊 等於我先知道我們紀元沒辦法給我們錢 沒辦法來救災"},{"start":491.34,"end":503.526,"text":"他不知道是因為被立法院把你綁死啊錢都不讓你用然後將來還要再歸咎給你那如果吵得不可開竅的時候趕快在立法院他們多數立刻通過一個決議說讓你們用也不講細節啊怎麼用"},{"start":507.802,"end":529.996,"text":"所以我是覺得 另外一個角度來講他那個718億我給你用 既然有那個決定的既然他們說任何那個可以用 我個人建議 你就給他用是 我們有簽報院裡面要動之對 那你動之的時候 他至於將來如果有審計書的時候不管 因為你是授權 立法院授權給我用你又不跟我講細節 所以我怎麼用我就怎麼用"},{"start":531.921,"end":543.566,"text":"因為你已經通過這個預算的這個叫他們的說法已經通過預算的這718已經通過預算的這個審議了很奇怪用一個決議然後就說你可以用那以後我會不會用一個決議你的總預算全部都通過了不用審今年度的預算沒有審喔因為我跟你報告我預估喔明年的他也不會給你審"},{"start":557.113,"end":571.002,"text":"他這個會跟你對抗到2028年了他沒有拖垮台灣喔他們不會甘願啦所有的錢都不會讓你用啦阿不然你是要怎樣 我就算多了啦我們國民黨跟民眾黨的票就是比較多 不然你是要怎麼樣到時候就是這樣子的狀況嘛"},{"start":575.263,"end":586.958,"text":"預算沒有審議影響到我們整個一個全國一個扶民的一個大計所以我們希望貴院還是能夠盡速來審議那你這個苦口婆心說了很久然後我也跟你預測過了我預測有哪一點不準嗎"},{"start":588.686,"end":613.451,"text":"我跟你說 我準準準啊 沒過啦 也不會審啦要審什麼 立法院365天都開會依照憲法規定兩個會期 中間要休會他也不休我佈建在一個司法防護網 365天都是會期裡面結果預算都不準立法院憲法給你規定最重要的預算審議 他不給你進行啊"},{"start":614.195,"end":638.387,"text":"我們希望還是盡快進入審議我們大家都希望啊 問題是我們的希望要去向誰哭訴啊是 謝謝我們你們趕快大聲講是預備 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對不對"},{"start":127.852,"end":154.426,"text":"但是我覺得除了肯定之外呢我們來看一下就業金卡應該不是這麼第一次嘛有沒有過去哪些就業金卡的方向潛力譬如說YouTube的陳世俊還有經濟領域台積電的人資處處長吳思廷經濟領域還有MBA的霍華德運動領域對不對我們國外就業金卡有哪些領域總共有12個領域有12個領域好那你的目的是什麼目的是找這些人來做你的招牌嗎你背後的政策目標是什麼"},{"start":155.08,"end":175.88,"text":"我背後的政策目標就是促進台灣的企業產業的轉型我想也是因為他們做了航棒之後能夠吸引更多不亞於他們或者說他們雖然是亮眼的但是有其他能夠大量的來投入為我們台灣所用對不對對好我們看一下但是我們看一下你目前就業經考的申請比例有點怪怪的"},{"start":176.761,"end":201.567,"text":"你看經濟科技教育呢加起來就超過了四分之三其他的法律建築國防運動才有一趴而已12個領域當中我們為什麼會有出現這樣的一個分布的極端分配呢主委你的看法是怎樣因為我們國內相對的就是說最近這幾年半導體相對的比較蓬勃發展所以對於這部分的需求相對比較多好 但我們會滾動式檢討我的意思是說"},{"start":204.328,"end":229.566,"text":"這些就業金卡是不是冰山一角反映出底下台灣在這12個領域的人才需求的不同數量好那很好那請問你告訴我台灣在這12個領域的人才需求你們有統計有預估嗎你們什麼機制來判斷台灣在科技領域需要多少人幾萬人台灣在運動領域需要多少人所以我們就從這些領域當中透過就業金卡吸引這些人來有沒有一個這樣的一個規劃目標"},{"start":232.045,"end":259.885,"text":"有沒有你們吸引人才有沒有分12個領域希望有個目標數我今年這個領域要吸引一萬五千個人有沒有我們有依照那個對於每一個領域他未來的那個人才需求我們有做一些推估啦推估好那這個推估怎麼推估出來的你攬財的目標如何設定是反映出產業的需求還是反映出目前我們國內人才培養不足的缺口到底你是問了哪些部門問了教育部問了經濟部還是問了勞動部"},{"start":262.586,"end":268.575,"text":"產業的需求也有以及國家政策的有沒有一個明確的一個評估方法一個機制有沒有"},{"start":269.81,"end":295.561,"text":"你這個提供給本席 我很好奇因為國發會很重要 很樞紐你必須了解勞動部那邊現場的情況怎麼樣產業面未來的需求怎麼樣教育部人才的培育的未來供給量怎麼樣所以你對於這個國際人才的膽才你才會設定目標 是不是這樣對 我們會後會同書面資料來現在台灣的人才缺口擴大中現在全世界少子化第一名是哪一個國家 生育率"},{"start":296.772,"end":318.129,"text":"可能不是我們就是韓國沒有啦 韓國已經被我們超越了我們現在是最後一名啦新加坡也很嚴重啊我們才看到二月份的新生兒跌破7000現在才6000多 這個大家都新聞啊所以呢 魏哲家說台灣人才不夠那怎麼辦 人才缺口 少子化不足用什麼方式 其他國家怎麼做 往下看"},{"start":319.21,"end":343.784,"text":"新加坡跟日本都跟台灣一樣面臨少子化的新加坡啊他沒有到什麼就業金卡人家功成名就的才邀請他他從大學端就出手啊我常去新加坡啊他們的新加坡從馬來西亞鎖定那些優秀的高中生招引來新加坡大學過了三年兩年他們就評估四年就業要畢業的時候他就請新加坡的公司延攬他還給他一個PR你知道這樣做嗎"},{"start":346.025,"end":371.402,"text":"你們有跟教育部這樣構想嗎?台灣每年收那麼多的境外生,這些有沒有我們未來需要的產業人才?有,我們對於那一個僑外生來我們台灣,念完書之後留在台灣的那一個...你們跟教育部有合作嗎?有有有合作計畫給我了解一下好,日本不一樣,日本的他不從大學上多少?他嘛,重金懸賞啊!他出來條件比台灣好啊!你知道日本的條件有沒有比台灣好?"},{"start":372.301,"end":397.851,"text":"你有沒有比較過?人家開的薪資水準比台灣高,同樣是國際人才,他跑到日本,他跑到台灣來幹嘛?你了解嗎?有沒有做過比較?這個比較結果也給本席看一下,我要了解喔,來往下看喔修法後,我們去年才修法,修法後台灣的纜財稍微有一點點提升但是從舊保來講,舊的保險來講,台灣的限制是要永久居留權才可以日本不限定用居留權就可以用啊"},{"start":398.492,"end":404.525,"text":"適用勞退制度 台灣是排除中階技術人員日本是不限工作身份都有用 主委你知道嗎"},{"start":406.867,"end":432.556,"text":"這個不了解對不對你們的同仁要趕快幫你做跨國比較搶人才不是台灣自己內部的產業在競爭我們要跟其他國家競爭好嗎好那這個部分要做好那往下看那纜財我們還有哪些條件可以放我們看一下我們的權益保障依照身份我們有分級影響他的就業保險勞退跟補助目前最嚴重的就是中階技術人才他沒有辦法自由轉換雇主工作彈性低對不對這個部分要不要檢討"},{"start":435.386,"end":462.443,"text":"好那什麼時候可以給本席一個檢討後你們的評估報告我們會後會後會後是什麼時候待會就可以跟你拿嗎一個月嗎一個月可以好那一個具體的我們目前雖然上會席修改了兩台專法但相較於其他鄰近的國家我們是不是有需要強化的地方我也希望這個國發會要好好的去做一個思考好最後我們來看一下"},{"start":464.024,"end":488.698,"text":"攬財專法,我們因為人生的少,人才不夠所以去外國求便宜,開條件去吸引人家這不是台語說的不是套路啦最後還是要怎樣?生育率要提高嘛生育率提高是國發會的責任嗎?請問郭文工,權責是誰?老跟少是那個陳時中政委在督導老跟少是他督導,那衛福部要去對不對?"},{"start":489.892,"end":504.754,"text":"但是你們也可以貢獻是是是懶拿的人才廢仔跟他老婆會不會在想台灣生小孩會不會會我覺得不會最近D卡一個什麼台灣的職場怎麼對待孕婦的有沒有看到這篇文章有沒有看過"},{"start":506.198,"end":527.905,"text":"有沒有人知道我們的職場的不友善對家庭的生育不友善不只是政府的制度沒有誘因而已我們的職場文化對於懷孕這件事情是不友善的這當然不是國發會的權責但是國發會你要去統合其他部會如果說這些懶男的財願意在台灣長留久用是我們的希望"},{"start":528.965,"end":549.118,"text":"他如果決定在台灣定居 移民 也是我們內政部要去爭取他如果在這邊生小孩 更好小孩生了他就在這裡穩定了 是不是這樣子所以你的攬財專法只是中間這一段但是往前往後延伸勞動部的職場條件 經濟部的企業文化我們教育部的對境外生的招生"},{"start":550.979,"end":573.721,"text":"還有到我們的衛福部對生育的補助 這個都是需要的來 請告訴我在這一塊懶財專法 你後續有沒有可以幫忙第一 定期的評估機制 就是人才的需求缺口這個你答應要給我一個月後另外 人才長留久安的配套措施有沒有包括友善職場 讓這些懶來的財在職場的時候對他們的生育有友善"},{"start":574.582,"end":590.866,"text":"可不可以是你一個方法可以可以好謝謝我們希望看到呢廢宅帶他的新婚老婆在台灣不只辦了就業金卡還在台灣生小孩好不好好你答應了嗎沒有啦我會努力讓這樣的事情發生是會發生好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167528","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167528","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f631906a1ad138a5789a7ba446ded26d6bfe91a9b467d8c7cad6c0f0b264154b055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"12:19:09 - 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有請副部長請副部長國務委員好請教一下副部長 這個國防預算特別條例我們是什麼時候送進立法院的"},{"start":20.446,"end":44.039,"text":"國防預算 十一月底對不對是 應該是十一月底那我想 去年的十一月是是是 沒錯是去年的十一月底那現在其實又有一些聲音說這個國防部可以編列在這個年度的預算當中但是我們的這個一百一十五年就是今年的中央政府總預算是什麼時候送進來立法院的 您知道嗎去年的八月二十九號"},{"start":45.54,"end":64.083,"text":"8月29號現在已經躺在這個程序委員會已經躺很久了然後再來我們的這個國防預算特別條例也躺很久了一直躺到現在那尤其是中央政府走預算已經躺到現在我算過了啦如果要把今天也一起算進去的話整整躺了200天已經躺了200天了好那所以今天我想這個我們的委員會特別排了這樣子的一個"},{"start":73.205,"end":88.61,"text":"這個專案的報告那我想我的大概也看過了那這個專案的報告內容其實非常非常完整那也非常的攸關我們的這個國防的安全尤其是在建構這個所謂的台灣之盾身上那我想這個規劃透過這個高中低層的一個"},{"start":92.731,"end":117.984,"text":"分層的一個防禦那結合多項的包含是整合天公啦愛國者啊等等的這些系統那同時也要發展所謂的這個低成本攔截武器跟這個無人機反制的一個能力喔但我想喔我們講了這麼多那我們的這個報告專案報告當中其實內容我看過也非常非常的完整喔那我想請教一下剛剛其實這個我們的控制委員也特別提到請問"},{"start":119.345,"end":128.536,"text":"現在就是在在野黨他們所提出的這樣子的一個預算的版本當中這些部分有沒有被納入我再請教"},{"start":131.654,"end":150.074,"text":"因為目前在野黨所提的兩個版本都是針對已經美方已經智慧國會同意共受的項目所以其他的部分是還沒有納入都還沒有納入所以今天我們特別有這樣子的一個專案報告好沒關係那我們也來請教一下就是這個國防部"},{"start":150.715,"end":153.317,"text":"那我看到這個報告當中當然也指出要導向這個導入這個AI的人工智慧戰場管理的一個系統那我想這也是整體方面我們確實也符合這個外界長期一直不斷地在強調的包含多層的這個據指"},{"start":167.808,"end":187.059,"text":"那精純的打擊那另外還有分散存活跟快速的一個決策這樣子的一個防衛的一個思維其實是非常好的那但是我想請教這個國防部的部分就是這個報告當中其實都有提到多項的關鍵建軍的一些項目那包含是強化防空的火網"},{"start":187.739,"end":198.676,"text":"那麼再來是低成本的攔截的武器還有無人機反制的一個系統那我想這些所謂的具有所急迫性的這些建案回歸到所謂的年度的預算當中請問會不會影響到台灣之盾的防空體"},{"start":203.403,"end":217.881,"text":"細的一個建制的時程這個是第一個問題喔那因為今天時間有限喔那我把第二個問題第三個問題問完之後如果說來不及在我們的質詢當中回答的話那麻煩再給我一些書面的一個報告喔那第二點呢就是在報告當中也特別因應喔"},{"start":218.562,"end":244.875,"text":"想強調這個因應我們的敵方有可能會採取所謂的多波式或者是多彈種的一個混合的一個攻擊的一個模式那我想的這個部分呢包含是彈道的飛彈那巡弋飛彈跟大量的一個無人機那以目前我們國防部的財政的規劃我們能不能夠支應這些所謂的不對稱戰力的快速成長的一個所謂的需求這個是第二個問題"},{"start":246.095,"end":271.184,"text":"有關於預算的這個部分要報告因為我們在這一次裡面委制跟商過的部分它的佔比大概是三千餘億左右那這些籌貨的項目都是預划未來五到六年之間要籌貨的如果全部塞到公務預算去的話每年增加的額度大概是五百到六百億台幣左右那依照這個額度的話除非"},{"start":271.544,"end":292.916,"text":"大幅擴增我們公務預算的額度否則就沒有辦法去支應那擴增公務預算我們的限制是我們也不希望排擠到其他部會及民生經濟各方面的一個安排所以就籌獲的時間跟預算穩定的這個角度來看我們還是希望大院能夠同意我們這些相關的項目採取特別預算來支應"},{"start":293.564,"end":309.465,"text":"好我想呢這個國防部的態度也很清楚那其實我們立法院當中我們也很希望能夠趕快通過這個國防預算的特別條例我想這個從去年的11月底送進來到現在其實已經躺了很久了那更不用講這個115年的中央政府總預算從"},{"start":312.288,"end":329.297,"text":"8月29號送進立法院到現在整整躺了200天我們在這裡也呼籲一下這個在野黨喔大家都知道國防很重要安全很重要人身的安全很重要台灣人民很重要但是這個部分我們還是要來支持國防部好嗎好 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在場的委員先進 列席的政務司司長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生 邀請我們陳主席長好 主席長委員好主席長好 你聽說今天有個玉山論壇開幕 你有沒有聽說玉山論壇玉山論壇我們總統副總統啊 參加玉山論壇第九屆了是我們小英總統在十年前所創立的"},{"start":39.398,"end":57.239,"text":"是不太了解我來介紹一下今年我們要請到波蘭的前總統華勒沙萊那大概有22個國家70多位各國的代表參加你有個概念啦你覺得像這樣的玉山論壇促進台灣跟國際的交往和能見度有沒有幫助"},{"start":58.649,"end":84.52,"text":"有吧?你可以點頭回答的嗎?我這樣很簡單的問題啊,你緊張什麼?是,謝謝但是呢,我給你看到照片這個呢,是剛好上週我去參加一個2016年,從2016年開始一個印度瑞辛納對話,這也是個論壇有超過110個國家,700多個代表參加其中我可以見證,台海局勢是各國所關切的"},{"start":85.04,"end":106.844,"text":"包括一些軍事將領都參加了那我們也跟國會印度的國務委員交流了你覺得自己辦玉山論壇要花相當的經費別人印度辦了我們派人去參加你覺得是不是兩者都很有效益是是很有效益嘛好那我們來看一下那你過去過的人有沒有去過印度沒有沒有你會不會私人度假想去印度"},{"start":108.53,"end":119.951,"text":"通常大多數的國人跟我去之前一樣印度這個地方好像很神秘有很多偉大的建築但是呢除非你有特別的興趣大概你不會是第一選項你下次出國會去印度嗎"},{"start":121.257,"end":147.894,"text":"不會不會啦 很老實所以呢我們都知道台灣不容易台灣目前啊 駐外的管處呢有多達111個遍佈那麼多國家有些國家相對的很艱困但是呢有些國家很小像我兩個星期前去帛琉只派了三個人它根據邦交關係政治因素分成五個規模我知道外交部有編列駐外人員的家籍請問這個家籍是不是主計總書要核定"},{"start":149.673,"end":174.66,"text":"是不是根據這五個級數來分的 還是根據其他的方式來分是人事總署定的 跟主計總署無關 好那這樣子我覺得也很有道理啦 但是我希望你可以給人事總署一個建議今天特別請你來就是說 那麼我們認為 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這個媒體有報導美國要宣布有200億美元的軍售要給台灣這個有140億的對台軍售還有60億美元的不對稱的作戰的裝備那副部長有聽到這個消息嗎"},{"start":29.658,"end":36.428,"text":"那這個是不是就是日前這個我們所編的1.25兆預算裡面的其中一部分市長對於媒體報導的這個數字"},{"start":44.722,"end":69.118,"text":"我們目前第一個部分我們跟美方提出的這個部分是有我們確切的暗想那媒體裡面所提到的這個金額的部分他並沒有很詳細的去敘述這些到底涵蓋了哪些項目所以這邊也無從去了解說他提的這個部分是講的是哪一些我們所希望籌購的東西"},{"start":70.859,"end":97.839,"text":"那我的意思是說因為現在還有一部分是111美金這個已經是確定了然後接下來這個有第二階段應該是有第二階段的軍售要給台灣那有接受到美方這個訊息嗎我們先不要講是金額會有多少好了我們現在獲得的訊息是我們已經提出針對特別預算的案項裡面美方都按照正常的進度來進行審核"},{"start":99.928,"end":120.896,"text":"那所以就是說有可能這個因為現在有院版國民黨民眾黨那這院版是就是完全是跟美方都已經是協調好的這一個包含這一個項目也包含這個金額那我的意思是說接下來美方宣布要賣的應該就是我們跟他們協調好"},{"start":122.775,"end":129.3,"text":"打算賣給我們的東西就對了那如果這樣子的話那如果近期美方不管是個"},{"start":130.732,"end":155.012,"text":"這個川習會是會不會見面會不會延遲我們不知道但是有機會在近期再宣布會有這個第二批的武器在賣給我們嗎應該是有機會應該有機會好那今天的題目是防空反飛彈系統的效能低成本攔截手段無人機的反制能量那我想請問一下副部長跟司長這個有呈現在我們的這個特別預算裡面嗎"},{"start":157.373,"end":178.198,"text":"包委我們在特別預算裡面的第三項裡面我們就已經有提到我們要建構反彈防空等相關系統然後在第五項裡面我們也針對人工智慧輔助決策系統跟C8SR的這個部分做了一個規劃所以相關的案項事實上"},{"start":179.838,"end":199.646,"text":"有一部分是納在我們特別預算裡面但是要跟委員報告的是我們的整個台灣之盾的建立不是只有這個特別預算我們是奠基在過去已經建立的防空能量為基礎然後透過這一次的特別預算裡面去強化它的能量"},{"start":200.146,"end":229.157,"text":"但是在公務預算的部分我們還有其他長期性的規劃他可能不是在我們這個時間之內可以完全獲得或是在研發上面我們仍然必須等待的那這個部分比較具有不確定性的部分我會納入後續的公務預算可是就整體而言在這個台灣之盾就是特別預算裡面的台灣之盾的項目如果能夠完全獲得他可以大幅提升我們目前高中低三個空城的一個防禦能力"},{"start":229.517,"end":235.181,"text":"好 那請教一下 那目前這一檔的版本有納入今天我們所報告的題目裡面嗎"},{"start":236.516,"end":263.111,"text":"沒有沒有嘛對不對沒有在這裡面嘛對不對對啊那所以今天要報這個題目那其實也是給你們一個跟大眾說明的一個機會我們台灣之盾要建構不管是低中高的這個防空的這一個戰略特別預算裡面已經有納進去了那包含市長所講的在這個常態的國防預算裡面也有但是呢這次的這一檔的版本都沒有就對了"},{"start":265.612,"end":282.394,"text":"目前兩個在野黨的版本主要是針對已經公佈的軍購案的部分那其他的規劃的部分並沒有納入那再請教一下就是說在這個2024年6月的時候這個前美軍印太司令的"},{"start":282.974,"end":301.313,"text":"司令帕帕羅他有提出一個地域景象那地域景象當然就是說就是一個用無人機或是無人艇的一個不對稱的作戰那請問一下那這個地域景象有沒有符合我們目前的這個不對稱作戰的一個需求這個當然是符合我們目前不對稱的作戰需求這為什麼我們在這一次的"},{"start":302.174,"end":322.334,"text":"這個特別預算裡面我們針對無人機跟反無人機的這個系統還有其他無人系統的這個部分我們有相當程度的琢磨而且我們希望這些系統都能夠在台灣產制來增加我們的韌性對啊那所以你看這個美國打伊朗那現在其實你就知道說這一個無人機它的重要性在哪裡啦"},{"start":323.911,"end":343.162,"text":"無人機的重要性其實從兩亞戰爭的時候我們大概就可以看得出來無人機已經成為目前整個戰爭的一個新趨勢它改變了過去傳統兵力以及戰力以對稱的方式來進行交戰的這種模式無人機的出現改變了我們"},{"start":345.524,"end":361.423,"text":"針對火力 針尖以及其他各方面的一個估計所以這個部分我們也汲取其他國家的經驗來做整個評估以及未來的籌貨規劃好 那所以這個也是在我們特別預算裡面有嘛對不對是那所以那再一兩版本也沒有"},{"start":362.661,"end":376.44,"text":"沒有那所以今天這個題目我是覺得說這個也蠻弔詭的那其實也剛好利用這個題目來跟大家說明我們台灣之盾或是說我們有關這個無人機無人艇的這個不對稱作戰"},{"start":378.917,"end":393.844,"text":"所需要的這些項目跟金額都完全沒有在在野黨的這一個特別條例的版本裡面目前的版本裡面是沒有的都沒有那我期待啦至少有附委審查了期待在這一個接下來這一個軍購條例的這一個這個聯席審查會議當中能夠"},{"start":398.922,"end":411.527,"text":"院版的不管是這一個台灣之盾或是說不對稱作戰所需要的這些項目都能夠保留下來那這個對台灣來講才是整體的這一個建構我們的國防的安全好謝謝好謝謝主席謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167525","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167525","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f662d20b509644362b9845512775efda37fe91a9b467d8c7ca1027fd842694b5725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳玉珍","委員發言時間":"12:03:02 - 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對吧是三成夠嗎"},{"start":50.704,"end":70.803,"text":"這是我們依照工程會他的一個標準來做編列三層是怎麼列出來的這個要問工程會因為我們是所有的標準都是依照工程會他給我們我要講幾個例子這個當然已經完工的金門大小就先不說已經招標很多很多次那就先不說那比較大的建設"},{"start":72.344,"end":98.012,"text":"只要本島跟離島有很大的差別材料 運輸成本金門島沒有產任何東西任何的建物 鋼筋 水泥 建材任何東西都要從台灣運過去不管它是海運或是空運那經過裝卸兩次的裝卸從本島的裝船離島的碼頭卸船然後入運每一道都是成本"},{"start":98.672,"end":113.81,"text":"那中間還有損耗 這個沒有疑問嘛損耗 還有很多損耗 沿害啊 各方面啦那觀光這些事實上已經耗盡了這個整個30%的額度這個還不算人工 還不算人工齁你看齁 這個"},{"start":115.572,"end":129.321,"text":"我們知道說你們怎麼算出來你們的依據你不知道你們依據怎麼算你說是工程會但是我們有請教過了你們是哪比如說去年七月間公共工程委員會所做的一百一十五年度工程費用"},{"start":131.222,"end":149.128,"text":"編列基準表的一般房屋建築費及辦公室翻修費調整的建議報告來說明所以按照你們你們是收集以前的這個例子說以前的這個招標的這個答案所以這個整個造價漲幅大概是增加了9.43%到27.86%所以你們建議還是維持離島加計30%的幅度對吧"},{"start":157.301,"end":181.249,"text":"所以我們找到的這個相關資料你們是按照說已經得標了算一算說跟這個計算的這個結果大概多了9%到大概27%所以你們還是覺得應該只建議還是加這個30%的幅度因為主計這邊是要編那個相關的預算一個標準嘛但是你們找到的都是已經得標然後後面動工的這個案子那大家也知道說現在"},{"start":182.594,"end":192.315,"text":"如果一旦只標不出去 留標 再留標隨著時間的這個 尤其現在大家都在討論這個通膨所以時間過去 越晚標出去 成本事實上"},{"start":193.856,"end":208.382,"text":"會越來越高嘛是不是越來越高嘛所以今天標跟明年標這個成本整個不一樣但是你們在編列預算的時候常常會尤其離島地區我就舉一個例子給你聽你看我們金門的這個醫院的長照這個機構"},{"start":213.024,"end":230.495,"text":"這個常識機構當初我那時候在衛航委員會我爭取八千一百萬後來從開始爭取到核定這樣過了一年兩年以後開始要標的時候發現八千一百萬完全不夠用所以讓衛部也編了一億多然後就開始招標你看他第一次招標是什麼時候"},{"start":232.998,"end":243.753,"text":"110 你看一下這個表格上面有114年的3月6號今天是115年3月份3月18號你看你看到無法決標總共有幾次"},{"start":244.912,"end":261.212,"text":"一二三四五六七這個去年111年八九十這個七次來一次更正公告那不算好了七次再加上115年一二三四到現在為止已經留標11次了還沒有標出去"},{"start":266.348,"end":281.783,"text":"我只是舉這個案子當作一個例子而已他標啦 我知道主席是不是說要標什麼大概三次以後 沒有絕標沒有絕標以後要重新調整嘛 對不對然後再標 又三次以後沒有 再重新調整 再標 再調調調因為你們有一個30%這個嘛"},{"start":286.88,"end":311.214,"text":"所以到現在為止十幾次都沒有辦法決標啊離島的工作第一個當然它的成本物料成本就比較高嘛第二個還有一個很大的問題很多人不願意到離島去這個做工啦那個做工的人不容易找到在本島比較容易找到那加上大家知道現在台積電到處在現金搶工人在本島本來就有很好的這個價錢來找這些工人所以"},{"start":311.994,"end":333.58,"text":"除了要離鄉背井以外專業人士不管是哪一類模板鋼筋各類的專業設計各方面人才找不到人以外那錢如果又沒有比台積電要發現金你根本所有案子都標不出去這不是唯一的案子這是很多很多的案子我們現在很多工程都標不出去就爭取多少預算也沒有用"},{"start":334.795,"end":359.88,"text":"最終仍然還是價錢不好那當你價錢不好你現在標三次流標再三次流標這樣整整光這個招標就招標了一年了從114年的3月6號到現在已經100今天已經是3月10幾號了已經整整招標一年都標不出去了你們已經調整三次價錢都招標不出去了所以你們不覺得你們應該想一下為什麼會這樣子嗎真的沒有人要做就是因為價錢不好嘛主委長"},{"start":366.125,"end":394.714,"text":"我不是針對他的案子啦齁我真的是一個整體的這個情形因為這個不是唯一的案子啊基本現在很多的重大工程都找不到人做啊價錢賣嘛本島如果可以做沒有人要到里島去做啊那我們當地也沒那麼多工人那我們的確有這些需求嘛不然當然還有其他港部建設啊各方各面都一樣現在所有的案子都面臨這個情形啊一標標一年然後成本又變更高一年後標不出去成本又更高永遠標不出去啊"},{"start":397.031,"end":420.703,"text":"所以旅遊票就變成一個常態啊還有大家也知道你們編例預算你們都會先仿那個民間一些價錢嘛對不對你們會有做一些仿價一些動作對但你們仿價都是落後的啊你們那個仿價的在達到答案在出來的時候那時候價錢已經跟市場上又不一樣了因為你們做完譬如說你們去年做仿價今年要編這個預算的時候事實上已經落後了嘛對不對這個是事實吧"},{"start":422.661,"end":444.211,"text":"組長這是事實嘛那當你拿出那個落後的價錢就比較少的價錢來編列預算後又標不出去一標再標三標標到十二標已經用一年了所以你們這個整個原物料的這個價錢齁還不算能工齁原物料竟然就已經落後兩三年了永遠標不出去本島有時候大家說如果說在島內大家還願意做就沒有人要到外島去工作根本就是沒辦法做"},{"start":447.714,"end":473.056,"text":"所以這個問題現在至少在金門市非常嚴重我想馬祖也應該也是都一樣啊 是對吧 普遍性在外保都很嚴重那我們也想要建設發展嘛也想要說 也要想說這個既然爭取到預算就是要做要做這些的確也是有需求才會提出來嘛但是現在就很多很多我想你如果去查一下金門市現在好多案子都還有後面打算要招票案子我們都覺得可能會沒有人來做"},{"start":474.357,"end":486.884,"text":"自己再多預算回去也沒有辦法有什麼結果政府需要的建設民間需要的這種像比如說你看這個長照機構多重要啊一標標了12次啊我看再標一年也標不出去怎麼做呢 有什麼想法呢"},{"start":494.484,"end":510.869,"text":"報告委員這個部分因為我們主要是參考工程會的一個一個他們去做查訪相關的指標是落後指標嘛是他是落後指標所以我們要把這個問題反映給工程會然後請工程會重新來訂定新的"},{"start":511.329,"end":531.871,"text":"你們可不可以有比較主動積極的做法因為工程會常常說主計事就是規定 主計處就是規定這麼多不能編代說法令啊我們還是比較被動是接受工程會然後我們才訂定這個標準那這個部分我們主動來聯繫工程會然後跟他研商先針對這個部分要怎麼解決"},{"start":532.492,"end":551.623,"text":"我不是針對這個案子因為案子真的很多不是一件兩件還有離島整個將來要怎麼樣訂請工程會來研訂然後我們直接發布因為我們是根據工程會訂的部分你們是根據工程會我如果問工程會他們會說這個組計就是這樣有一個規定我就不能超過多少大家都聽組計數的"},{"start":553.304,"end":578.566,"text":"所以我們沒有這方面的專業沒關係 你今天聽到這個訊息了那我想說你們是不是會同工程會建立一個離島的營建指標因為它的確跟本島是不一樣的物料也好 能工也好那個時間各方面都完全不一樣所以不然我們的案子不是只有這個案子很多離島的建設都沒有辦法往前推進長照啊 不管是長照也好 港布啊 各方面都一樣"},{"start":579.747,"end":596.078,"text":"嗯 好不好 那你是不是可以在一個月內提出相關的一些報告出來給我第一個首先是針對這個案子你們主動好不好 你只用牽頭跟工程會來做好不好我不是針對這個案子 這個案子已經標了一年了我們再針對116年度 請他提出"},{"start":600.041,"end":614.106,"text":"以後的案子 以後到底離島的工址各樣的建設 到底那標準是不是應該要怎麼樣單價各方面是不是有一個什麼提高的方法或什麼好的建議你們主動來跟工程會我們也轉給工程會來做什麼時候給我這個答案可以給我我們盡快 盡快是多久一個月啦 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167524","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167524","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6d254590b4c4e3bbd9a7ba446ded26d6bfe91a9b467d8c7ca42b2a9aabf465d0c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"11:57:14 - 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喔2億吧"},{"start":108.466,"end":125.051,"text":"我記得10週資本額2億 抱歉抱歉請問一下各位2億跟32億差很多華晶是5億華晶是10.7億中華電信是1200億幫我核實一下我的數字是否正確因為我是查過的然後剛剛你說32億也不對確實是我說的2億"},{"start":127.012,"end":148.093,"text":"那我很想请问一下就是说这家中光电那我们先我们先看资本额等一下我会跟你讨论核心技术等等一个一个讨论下去那中华电信华晶资讯这跟中光电这三家那他们来针对资安设备的部分来进行投标中光电它能够胜出的理由在哪里"},{"start":150.973,"end":172.049,"text":"報委員我簡單報告一下這個評選委員最主要是有九員那軍方的內部是兩員通常到學者專家學者專家然後我再問嘛就是那你總要知道說這個最後得標了中光電他得標這個是我們陸軍機敏的這個專案那他的優勢優於華晶資訊跟中華電信優在哪嗎他有什麼特色嗎"},{"start":179.296,"end":205.79,"text":"向委員報告因為手上的資訊沒有但是我們剛剛這個委員啊所有的委員都是經過這個我不管你委員我問你的問題你回答我就好因為你今天三家來標然後呢你也標給了這個中光電了然後呢我問你說那中光電它提供出來的內容有什麼是能夠優於其他兩間所以它被選擇無論是軍方的參與或是專家學者的參與它勝出的原因在哪裡"},{"start":207.05,"end":226.16,"text":"這個部分的資料我們可以私下跟委員報告為什麼要私下報告呢公開不能講嗎因為這個評選的資料有些是不宜對外公開的好那我告訴你公開的部分是什麼好不好也就是其他廠商的核心設備他們拿出的中華電信跟華晶資訊他們都有CP Cisco Geometer"},{"start":226.84,"end":246.225,"text":"但是呢 中光電跟別人不一樣中光電他選擇的是這一家這個叫做Fortinet的這個防火牆所以最後我們選擇了它我想要請問一下你們軍方有沒有了解中光電所提供的這一套Fortinet它這一套資訊系統好還是不好有沒有在國際上受到什麼樣的批評"},{"start":254.107,"end":279.686,"text":"報告委員我就兩點向您做回覆第一個有關於這個媒播報導的這一家媒體報導的事情它事實上並不周全而且有沒有你回答我的問題就好了嘛周不周全那是我今天我當然今天有一家媒體它做了很多的系列的報導那我也只會拿我認為裡面有道理的部分來詢問你那不是說我今天把所有的新聞然後全部列出來我詢問的剛剛很清楚了"},{"start":282.068,"end":305.893,"text":"就是說這套ForeignNet是中光電提供的資訊系統對吧是有錯嗎有錯嗎沒有嘛那我問你這套系統你認為它優不優秀有沒有其他的漏洞可言我就兩點向委員報告第一個它所提供的必須要符合國防部它所這個所規範的營區網路的這個建置的期待你沒有回答我的問題我問的是這套系統第二點有關於這個您剛才講到這個這個ForeignNet這個對"},{"start":312.314,"end":335.579,"text":"網路漏洞我們目前沒有收到國防部以上的這個那你們沒有從那我請問一下荷蘭軍事情報局安全局那他們有沒有在2024年曾經發布一個報告提到這套系統它有被中國中國大陸這邊然後呢有駭客的漏洞"},{"start":336.052,"end":343.261,"text":"他們曾經駭入過荷蘭的國防部在內有兩萬台的相關設備你們知道這件事嗎我們一切會依照國安局所通報的機制來做審問那你國安局的機制歸國安局的機制我現在問你是一個事實的部分就是說你們有沒有去掌握到這一套系統"},{"start":355.475,"end":364.163,"text":"在荷蘭他當初被使用的時候他們的國防部有提供一個報告說明了就他們實際上在運作的時候有兩萬台被中共去入侵到他們的系統裡面包委員現在這個案子還在廠商提交服務計畫書的階段如果今天報導"},{"start":376.175,"end":393.872,"text":"或是委員的指導認為這個有疑慮事實上我們會再請教國防部跟國安局一定建制和所驗收的系統一定要是符合國安局的機制所以這個部分不是只是國安局它有它的機制但國安局它也不是神啊它也有可能有漏掉的時候啊"},{"start":394.993,"end":401.057,"text":"所以這本來就是雙方大家要有一個互動嘛那我剛剛提出的就是說荷蘭軍事情報局裡面就出過一份報告裡面寫什麼呢他們的防火牆被中共的駭客攻破以後他還會植入木馬這個木馬呢他即便軍方重新開機這是報告裡面的內容我都看過報告了那你進行任體升級之後他這個後門還是會在"},{"start":419.028,"end":422.171,"text":"所以變成是說這套系統它從荷蘭這是荷蘭方講的他們的實務經驗就是它有一個後門會被植入木馬植入木馬之後就算你去做更新這個木馬還在所以就變成是說你以為你買了一套資安的設備但其實你讓中共有了一個後門的機會有一個植入木馬的機會"},{"start":440.785,"end":459.866,"text":"那請問一下如果是這樣子的話專家跟委員跟你們在這個標案的過程當中都沒有把這些事情考慮進來的情況下那裡面是有中共同路人還怎樣啊包委員我再次強調我們不會堅持要用這樣子的系統如果有這樣的疑慮在服務計畫書裡面廠商要有完整的說明而且要經過"},{"start":461.187,"end":488.837,"text":"國安局和我們的聯誼所那你們在當初這個開標的時候有沒有就是你們在討論這個標案的時候有沒有把這些事情就是一起討論在裡面嗎還是你們什麼時候才知道說荷蘭人家是荷蘭人家是有做這個報告然後有提到說有漏洞的問題啊你們什麼時候知道這件事情的不可能是我現在跟你講你才知道吧我沒有參與標案所以這個要在10號了解之後向您報告那你們需要花多少時間了解"},{"start":491.936,"end":492.917,"text":"因為這是滿嚴重的一個問題啊"},{"start":497.694,"end":519.687,"text":"我們在本週最為了解到我告訴你我不是要挑你們麻煩因為這是蠻嚴重的問題我重複一遍因為其實中華電信跟華晶資訊那都是對於資安他們有尤其我說中華電信好了我不要講其他的中華電信跟我們之間這個政府部門之間本來就有很多資安上面的服務跟協助那人家其實是相當專業的資安的這個防護系統結果呢選了這個中光電原因剛剛也聽不出來"},{"start":525.29,"end":540.369,"text":"那選了中光電那它其實它的產業主要是在服務這個像比如無人機啊或是這種無人狗啊等等的它也不是以一個資安見長的一個公司然後呢再加上它所提供的它目前所要提供的這樣的一個系統"},{"start":541.51,"end":559.825,"text":"在荷蘭就曾經已經被他們揭露過說會被中共植入木馬所以它是一個有資安程序的資安疑慮的問題那我想要請教一下那如果說對方要提供的是這樣子的一個系統那我們後續你一個禮拜之後你發現說真的有所疑慮的話那國防部這裡要怎麼處理"},{"start":561.803,"end":587.841,"text":"我再次跟您報告上述的參加上述的三家的這個競標公司都是符合相關的規定資格的那第二個我剛剛也說了符合資格是不是設備要通過國安規定的認證然後呢那請問一下這個認證的部分中華電信跟華晶資訊我知道都是在得標之前就已經送給國防部請問中光電是什麼時候送進來的相關認證這個報導上面所說的與事實不符"},{"start":591.203,"end":594.286,"text":"那是什麼時候 我要問是什麼時候我剛沒有說是幾月份 請你聽清楚我的問題我問的是說呢 這個中華電信跟華晶就我確實知道是說它是 因為本來就應該在你要這個送進來的時候就要有審核嘛"},{"start":609.46,"end":614.785,"text":"所以我問的是說那好那你這樣講這三家中華電信華晶資訊中光電他們分別針對國安認證的部分是在什麼時候把相關的設備交由國防部去提供相關的這個認證說明的"},{"start":627.096,"end":633.119,"text":"你三家都提供時間點就好了呀我是給你一個澄清的機會嘛我這要比較完整跟委員報告第一個這個依照BNS的採購清單裡面就是國防部核可我們雖然是陸軍建制但是我們要能夠跟國防部的整個相容性和安全性做借接那"},{"start":644.443,"end":666.156,"text":"在這個招標的這個商情裡面我們發現有部分的清單他可能面臨到消失性的商源還有並不是優歸所以我們請得標廠商提供相關的優歸的記錄並不是如報導所說在招標評選會上面他沒有拿到國安的資安認證那請問其他兩家都是一開始就OK了嘛對不對"},{"start":666.676,"end":672.179,"text":"您 對不起 抱歉 我沒聽就是你剛剛講的是說因為你認為說這其中一家廠商或者是因為你沒有講是哪一家廠商你就說有廠商然後呢他可能在這個過程當中你認為有一些需要補件是嗎需要補件所以你後來請他補件 對吧"},{"start":682.924,"end":697.361,"text":"就請他提供這些在B2S清單裡面可能面臨消失性傷源的我們請他提出優歸的其他的系統讓我們做審認那其他兩家不用的原因是因為他沒得標嗎"},{"start":698.682,"end":712.751,"text":"那他有 他當初在這個投標的時候有提供相關的內容嗎因為如果人家有那他沒有的話然後結果他卻被選出來那不是一件很奇怪的事嗎是 他這些提供的都有在BS清單裡面但是因為我們去審認"},{"start":714.332,"end":728.858,"text":"面臨到這些系統裡面我們要選擇更優歸和有一些可能面臨消費性傷害源的我們就把它摒除掉好那我以上做一個結論因為也沒有時間了就是說呢你們在這麼重要的資安設備而且金額高達六億多"},{"start":730.359,"end":738.548,"text":"然後呢我們我不知道為什麼學者專家或你說的裡面也有國防部的人沒有選擇這種聲譽很好然後呢也長時間在經營那這個資安系統的包含中華電信等等的那要選擇一個資本額比較低的中光電他也主要不是做這個的"},{"start":748.539,"end":753.781,"text":"那這我也都不跟你提了但他最後他選擇的這樣子的一個系統如果他曾經在荷蘭所發布的報告裡面有提到他有被兩萬台的設備被中共植入木馬被駭客入侵的情況那我們要審慎思考是不是還要跟這個廠商合作或者是要如何去修改一個禮拜之內可以給我回覆嗎"},{"start":771.188,"end":791.354,"text":"是,那我也在一個禮拜內跟委員回覆,那我也要再次跟委員澄清報告,這個任何資安的建制一定是以國家安全作為最高的...當然啊,但我剛剛沒跟你講的時候,你也跟我說你也不知道荷蘭他們的狀況啊,所以我就說你們當然是,你怎麼可能你會在台上講說,哎呀,我們資安不是很重要,這個當然很重要嘛,對不對?"},{"start":791.854,"end":821.15,"text":"可是說這個疑慮的部分你們沒有提早發現那要我現在跟你們說你們才要一個禮拜的時間去調查類似的事情我希望以後在資安的不管從投標開始審查過程專家學者軍方都要更仔細詳細的去做調查以後才讓對方去得標否則類似的疑慮會很多而且後續你們如果還要再修改的話也會讓國人有更多的疑慮那也會對於你們的流程跟程序來說增加更加的負擔那其實是沒有必要的好不好"},{"start":821.611,"end":824.065,"text":"所以麻烦一个礼拜的时间回去了解一下谢谢"}]}},{"id":"167523","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167523","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6135312cac51b7d7a9845512775efda37fe91a9b467d8c7caa1134436d75394885ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王世堅","委員發言時間":"11:50:52 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我請主記長好 主記長委員好主記長辛苦了是我每次看到你的報告以後一則已喜 一則已憂是我今天兩個問題要請教你是第一個問題就是說關於我們國家產業結構失衡那這個"},{"start":32.011,"end":55.018,"text":"要如何來反映給各部會那行政院各部會大家群策群力想辦法來補救第二點就是說我發現你們所調查的這個房屋租金指數那麼跟實質上還是有差距那這兩個問題我想請教你那麼其實你們"},{"start":57.049,"end":64.157,"text":"上個月你們修改了這個經濟預測經濟成長率從3.54你修改到上修到7.71這個很好而且你們認為說我們出口成長會從6.3那上修到22.2%"},{"start":75.889,"end":97.626,"text":"上修的幅度超過一千億美元以上這對我們台灣都是好的啦這都是正面的尤其相較於鄰近國家那麼我們的經常站在GDP的比重就是說我們貿易順差的部分明顯高出很多"},{"start":98.598,"end":110.365,"text":"那像去年我們出口年增率我們台灣是世界第一啦我們台灣佔了34.9%那日本韓國都4%3.8%左右那當然也贏過美國跟中國6.0 5.5%這個都是好的都是正面的但是就是關於產業結構的部分"},{"start":125.663,"end":141.633,"text":"我們如果列出11項我們主要貨品出口的概況11項產業裡面我們在資通跟視聽產品在電子零組件電機產品光學精密儀器等等這一些包括機械"},{"start":143.587,"end":168.414,"text":"這五大項裡面我們是成長的尤其是高科技業 資通 試聽產品這些電子零組件這些我們的成長幅度非常的高但是另外六項傳產行業像橡膠 塑膠行業礦產品 運輸工具化學品 基本金屬等等這些我們傳統產業"},{"start":171.243,"end":188.255,"text":"我們不但沒成長 甚至都衰退那麼這個衰退所帶來的影響你看近三年來我們GDP佔的比重比農林漁牧業我們佔1.51% 微幅成長工業"},{"start":196.356,"end":207.304,"text":"微幅下降 微幅下降 抱歉那工業我們從38.56到43.45我們是成長很大但是服務業59.53降到55.11那降的這個幅度有將近5%之多啦所以產業結構的失衡越來越嚴重"},{"start":221.494,"end":245.048,"text":"那產業結構師主席講得也很清楚就是說我們受惠於高科技產業的這個部分電子製造業的部分我們GDP佔的比重超過15%而高科技產業能夠聘僱運用的人力卻只佔勞動人口的6.5%"},{"start":249.971,"end":270.176,"text":"簡單講如果以數字來講一個100億產值的高科技產業可能他三五百人就夠啦但是100億產值如果在紡織業在食品業他可能要兩三千人以上的規模"},{"start":271.724,"end":290.306,"text":"所以這樣子會導致我們失業人口大幅增加那薪水也是薪資大家都曉得我們台灣我們在四小龍裡面我們平均月薪五點六萬五萬六在四小龍裡面我們是墊底的"},{"start":291.447,"end":313.186,"text":"我們GDP比日本韓國都高但是我們薪水的中位數卻慘輸他們所以受惠的民眾事實上我們國家出口也成長GDP也成長各方面欣欣向榮但是實質上受惠的民眾並"},{"start":314.98,"end":338.39,"text":"不多多數的民眾是無感的甚至因為物價的關係甚至他們是每天在過著辛苦的生活那像失業率而言我剛講的失業率確實啦去年失業率3.35這個是25年來新低這是沒錯可是有一項"},{"start":339.895,"end":367.946,"text":"主席長我特別提醒你有一項我們15歲到24歲的年輕人失業率高達11.32年輕人失業率高達11.32是整體我們平均失業率的3.5倍不但高而且高過日本韓國高過日本韓國大概都將近他們的兩倍之多"},{"start":369.252,"end":390.201,"text":"所以這個部分主席長我希望你能夠在行政院會裡面協調各部份能夠告知這個詳實的情況提出具體讓他們提出具體的對策去改善這樣可不可以你有沒有發現這個事情的嚴重性產業失衡產業結構失衡的嚴重性越來越嚴重"},{"start":393.965,"end":413.152,"text":"是 跟委員報告因為產業是很的確是存在的尤其傳產產業的部分它整個一個它整個一個中端一個需求它是疲弱還有海外它有低價一個競爭所以整個是整個力道成長力道是不足啦所以這個部分我們當然會請經濟部還有國發會"},{"start":416.833,"end":436.818,"text":"要相關的部會要持續來協助協助他們要整形要升級要提升他們的一個競爭力這才有辦法不然的話傳產的部分他的人力佔了百分之三十嘛那所謂的那個知通就佔百分之六點五而已所以相對的這一個部分是人力的部分那所以他的薪資就會相對的低就會低下來那這一個部分呢我們本身在"},{"start":443.341,"end":448.747,"text":"國發會經濟部方面這個部分我們會提供相關的數據給他查找讓他來組織這個部分國發會經濟部這些部分政策上去調整怎麼樣來協助傳統產業還有一項可以協助的就是說也要"},{"start":459.22,"end":466.183,"text":"情商財政部負稅署我們可以在稅賦方面給傳統產業優惠嘛尤其農林漁牧產業我們對他們課徵這樣同樣的那些稅率其實是不對的"},{"start":475.947,"end":479.532,"text":"農林漁牧還有傳統產業我們至少說服上面與時俱進跟著這個情況隨時我們各種經濟狀況的改變產業結構的改變那適時的來幫助他們我覺得這最實際啊"},{"start":493.59,"end":513.399,"text":"好不好財政部最難商量了他保守嘛他們很保守保守是對的但是要讓他們知道這個嚴重性那另外就是說房屋指數房屋指數的部分處長我一直搞不懂我從第一次質詢你到現在你們那個樣本數1480"},{"start":518.322,"end":535.953,"text":"就這1480份文文不動啦那其實低估的租金指數等於低估的物價指數嘛因為物價指數CPI裡面房租的物價指數這個權重佔了15.6%耶15.6%我們全國有高達300萬戶出租的房屋結果你只有1480份"},{"start":547.641,"end":575.243,"text":"一千五百份都不到房屋來做你的sample所以這樣出來的指數跟民間調查的不太一樣耶民間現在房租確實漲的幅度有減緩但是還是繼續在漲啊還是繼續在漲那麼我認為啦這個部分在內政部內政部有內政部的統計資料他們有七十一萬份"},{"start":577.744,"end":602.852,"text":"71萬份資料甚至台北市啊台北市每一季每一季的採樣都5000份以上台北市而已喔採樣5000份所以我認為1480份根本完全沒辦法完整真實的表達我們房屋租金它的指數到底是什麼樣"},{"start":604.076,"end":630.789,"text":"所以這個部分是不是你可以跟因為內政部很簡單嘛跨部會你找他們情商他那些資料背景其實就可以供給我們主計處來做一個很好的調查不是這樣嗎有這個部分我跟委員報告我們民間的樣本住宅是1500戶郎那社會住宅的部分呢是樣本是3萬戶郎所以整個部分之外我們也有參考"},{"start":634.03,"end":646.116,"text":"主席講講你社會住宅的部分樣本書都三份份的社會住宅占整體我們國家房屋才占一小部分欸因為它是公務資料該查的你不查 欸 它不負負責任的"},{"start":649.908,"end":665.787,"text":"你該取樣的是那個大塊的不是這樣子嗎就是真的你要大塊的這個部分大多數的房屋不是那個社會住宅嘛那你社會住宅反而取樣那麼多低頭不夠要顧阿母娘"},{"start":668.328,"end":680.047,"text":"我不是說那個社會住宅的房屋租金指數不重要重要但是他你都能夠取得三萬份了那你為什麼"},{"start":681.64,"end":706.596,"text":"是嘛是嘛 所以你說因為是公務資料所以啊 我也四個字回你嘛便於形式嘛 便便的便便的我現在跟你講 便便的齁你做棗內政部 也是很便的啊它有71萬份否則你想想喔 以台北市政府的規模它都能做到每一季5000份的我們是中央政府欸"},{"start":707.637,"end":710.24,"text":"你們是主計處耶 拜託台美市的財力比我們還優惠財力這個我再跟你 下一回再跟你商量"}]}},{"id":"167515","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167515","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6923a896b4ab0505a9845512775efda37bfd7ce027fbc82e0172f596e3a4508175ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"11:26:21 - 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因為他項目他有三百多項啦對 那有的是一個月買一次有的是一年買一次不不不 仔細講我講的是你我大家外食族都感受到的過去可能我們買三菜一湯可能是一千一千二好了假設一千二好了我覺得可能夠四五個人吃我們現在發現說可能看起來沒漲價但是份量變小了三四個人吃不飽"},{"start":103.004,"end":118.519,"text":"要不然就各個單品 剛才羅秘財委員講說滷肉飯變貴了現在大多是外食族跟租屋族都特別體感通膨的狀況特別的 感受特別的深刻妳同意我的說法嗎"},{"start":120.7,"end":142.638,"text":"所以就是說帳面上的我們的去年的通膨控制的好像還不錯但是特別是像今年一二月CPI帳目上看起來是呈現收斂的狀況但是卻因為春節的因素所以其實去年的基期偏高所以很多人都會說通膨看起來好像是假象民眾的體感通膨還是非常深刻"},{"start":144.199,"end":172.486,"text":"譬如說我在今年一月份的時候我就特別質詢了去年十月份店家上漲但是從十一月份開始我們的瓦斯已經連漲三個月也就是每公斤持續上漲了3.15塊其實這個數字我們看起來好像不多連續三個桶裝瓦斯每公斤上漲3.15塊看起來好像不多但是對於做外賣小吃夜市"},{"start":174.195,"end":200.664,"text":"那個老闆感受都特別深所以相對的我剛才講的外食族他就開始都整個漲上來那今年當然我們變今年變動實在是太多我們都很多會發生的事情其實我們都想像不到你我都想像不到包括中東的議題包括這個雖然看起來我們去年關稅大戰然後關稅看起來好像定案然後現在又有一波不同的變數你就是說"},{"start":202.245,"end":228.734,"text":"我覺得我們政府應該要有好幾套劇本雖然這些現狀這些變動的因素都不是我們樂意看到的但是很顯然的面對這些因素我們政府要去想好多不同的劇本過去我們覺得不可能發生的我們都要把所有的狀況想到極致來去做因應你同意那包括在中東的油價現在也是賣方的市場"},{"start":229.514,"end":247.49,"text":"雖然說我們現在都說我們跟亞洲其他國家調貨我們中東買不到我們過去跟天然氣跟卡達買20%、35%那個數字我等一下後面會有但是我們跟其他國家調貨也很多人都在搶貨所以還是價格漲還是賣方市場所以價格還是上漲的所以後續整個影響到我們整體台灣通膨的狀況其實還是有"},{"start":256.477,"end":278.176,"text":"那到底我們今年看起來你們的公佈在ART公佈之後我們今年上升率是1.68但是那是在當時原油的價格我記得當時原油的價格差不多每桶大概在67塊不到70塊嘛對不對那現在已經到今天為止我剛剛查了一下數據找到美工機長"},{"start":279.598,"end":289.486,"text":"漲到105到今天價格是105塊所以這個推估你覺得未來還會不會再調整"},{"start":290.629,"end":291.089,"text":"我知道"},{"start":312.4,"end":319.806,"text":"所以妳也認為它會超過2%是 那我們隨時會做因應那超過2會不會超過2.25或2.5這個差距就非常大非常大 這個我也不敢講因為我必須要看我們整個每一個月的一個狀況包括它的一個情況 包括它的"},{"start":336.178,"end":358.593,"text":"好 我大概懂妳意思我們有了這些數字工具其他的就是各部會的因應策略對不對 我們要苦民所苦嘛這是我剛剛講政府要好幾套劇本雖然我們現在有在油電的部分我們做動漲的動作但是我們都知道所有的物價的漲幅它不會只有油電的因素而已"},{"start":359.053,"end":377.185,"text":"包括鋁 糖 尿素包括硫磺等等化肥等等 氦氣等等這些大眾物資也受到戰爭的影響也會影響到我們整個國家各個產業的原物料所有當外食族這些在漲其實其他的貨物也都在漲是的"},{"start":380.007,"end":396.257,"text":"那這個價格也都在漲所以這個衝擊是非常的大那我們手邊到底我們有哪些工具我們現在可以動漲但是我們也擔心說後面當恢復的時候那個一彈很高就像我們每彈瓦斯一樣那個數字就會非常可怕"},{"start":396.977,"end":418.345,"text":"我們剛剛也講了就是那個那個中油還有台電它相關天然氣的一個部分呢它在三四月它已經有優先去取得了所以再來就是五月以後的一個數字所以我們整個月就會根據這些各種狀況所以如果這樣子漲下去的話明年我們補貼台電的費用要增加"},{"start":419.586,"end":430.116,"text":"所以這個部分要請委員來支持我們該支持的合理的不可抗力的因素我們當然會支持政策的因素我們必須支持我們去年強化任性的預算到114年底我們編列了2794億"},{"start":442.788,"end":463.157,"text":"我們累積的實現數字有86億當然有一大部分原因是因為普發現金那普發現金我把它算進去的話大概還有2400億所以我們將近有400億當時我們還沒有用還沒有實現所以在去年其實我們已經有預估到關稅的問題當然還沒有今年中東的戰爭所以"},{"start":468.059,"end":486.908,"text":"沈縣長你對於目前執行的狀況有什麼具體的建議跟規劃的方向嗎其實早在去我們去年114年我們還有400億還沒有花欸但是我們都已經可以遇到包括產業的衝擊包括農業的衝擊雖然最後的關稅還沒談定貿易關稅還沒談定但我們就一直在預估說這個對台灣某一些包括藥品包括農業的衝擊會非常的大所以沈縣長你在這一塊"},{"start":496.272,"end":500.134,"text":"你如何去監督各部會這是我第一個問題好 謝謝委員關心這個韌性的這個部分我們也非常關心大概當時這個韌性特別預算是差不多花三年三年度的預算我知道三年但是我們現在跟時間在跑我們沒有趕快及時及時與沒有去救那些產業的話"},{"start":522.003,"end":527.346,"text":"很多員工 很多產業公司都關門 員工就已經解職了所以怎麼還會有400億放在那邊我不應該說不去花 應該趕快去跟各部會瞭解其實去年他們貿易關係還沒談定的時候 我們大家都知道農業是第一波一定會衝擊 因為美國那些黃小玉一定是要進來的"},{"start":544.856,"end":571.822,"text":"早就應該要處理了怎麼還要放400億在那邊不去跟產業各部位怎麼沒有去跟產業做溝通所以沈縣長我要提醒你這個就是要去跟經濟部抵下其實我們沈縣部應該要去了解的地方對 我們有開過這個分率法院藍綠大家共同通過這個版本給你錢你不去趕快我不要講說不去花你應該好好的趕快去執行什麼還會放在那邊呢我們都在追了"},{"start":572.382,"end":579.186,"text":"我們現在在追他 有的都那個執行率只有3% 4%啦這些對現在的一個情況影響得到 我會當同意委員的意見所以我們現在已經專案在追 這是執行率的問題包括那個普發現金 應該已經花過很久了都還沒有再接報 造成的執行率不是挺好看的"},{"start":598.737,"end":618.262,"text":"主席長 審計長我最後 我不要佔用別人時間其實我認為我們現在很多產業 很多中小企業經營得非常辛苦我們在跟時間賽跑既然立法院大家有共同的共識通過這些任性預算我們應該趕快好好的去花"},{"start":619.302,"end":631.317,"text":"不會說還有400億放在那邊不去趕快去救急主席想 沈議長你了解我意思那另外最後就是說我們今年我們今年我本來預估經濟成長大概只有3年50後來因為貿易關稅談定到7.1%但是現在"},{"start":635.942,"end":640.206,"text":"大環境又在變動所以我想問一下主計長我們今年的經濟成長後續還會再調整嗎因為現在面對包括美日的衝突油價的飆升美國接下來有可能會有停滯通膨的問題那我們還會不會再下修我們現在的經濟成長率"},{"start":656.087,"end":680.201,"text":"我們是經濟撐拿率是每三個月調整修正我知道我知道還會再下修嗎我們必須在五月中旬那我們必須看各種狀況來做調整那你認為還會再下修嗎我現在還沒有辦法去看因為我們一二月整個的一個部分是狀況是還不錯那第二個還必須要看戰爭它是怎麼持續那第三個其實關稅我只是想你不要回答我說"},{"start":681.161,"end":692.679,"text":"你還要再看因為其實做政府就要去做很多的預測你才知道要對症下藥我們有哪些政府的工具可以去救可以去處理你現在跟我講說你不知道我覺得這個答案是不及格"},{"start":696.264,"end":716.937,"text":"你現在來講數據還沒有出來我也沒辦法告訴你說大概是但是你一定是跟院長報告你一定會跟院長報告說數字有可能下修所以我們現在各部會要做什麼事情嗎因為數據還沒有出來啦我知道數據還沒有出來但是你可以去做預估嘛是要預估是要那個所以我現在問你所以你預估數字會下修還是會上漲好 謝謝你不要不敢講"}]}},{"id":"167514","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167514","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f664dd660053658d809a7ba446ded26d6bbfd7ce027fbc82e078127b5ca753ccb05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"11:24:28 - 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號稱單價低於一萬美元可以用於攻擊裝甲目標 執行偵查任務等等小型的FPV的無人機 有些是拿來當自殺的無人機甚至有些低的 規模小的 成本幾百美元而已而不只他們在這個無人機的"},{"start":138.478,"end":163.447,"text":"設計等等方面有一定的能耐本事他們在關鍵的原料包含稀土包含鋰電池等等在原物料的技術跟門檻上面大概也有很大的一個試戰率甚至有變成戰略物資管制出口的這樣一個狀況那我的問題是這樣現在國防部要建構低成本的攔截的武器請問在國防部的規劃裡面這成本的射算大概是一個什麼樣的狀況因為小型的無人機FPU自殺無人機換戰車那個成本是一換一萬"},{"start":166.388,"end":194.276,"text":"我一台無人機換很昂貴的戰車大型的無人機我如果直接用自殺的方式或者轟炸的方式去處理軍事的設施的話成本大概是一比一千啦這其實都是以小換大的這樣一個方式如果對岸有大量的無人機的機隊採取了飽和攻擊的這樣子的一個方式我們的這個成本的設算要怎麼樣來設算才符合所謂的低成本攔截因為低成本攔截是我們的目標嘛低成本攔截數字大概是多少呢是不是可以請國防部示意一下"},{"start":197.437,"end":212.207,"text":"在這邊做幾個說明第一個其實我們整個從攻擊造成的損害來去評估他這個威脅因此去採取地中高剛剛所報告的三層方式而且要綜合運用"},{"start":213.368,"end":230.169,"text":"要能夠高度感知有效的鑑別之後來去採取最有效的反制的手段那當然在我們火力資源協調程序當中以最低效能最具效果的方式火力來去完成這樣的防禦是最有效的手段以上說明"},{"start":231.07,"end":252.505,"text":"所以具體來講是用什麼樣的方式?因為譬如說你們好像中科院比如說雷射啊或者是微波干擾等等這個看起來眼下看起來好像是一個如果對方量很大好像也只有這樣的方式還是有別的方式?我們現在如果面對這樣子的打擊或者是對方所謂用大量造成所謂飽和攻擊的狀況我們現在還是只能用防空飛彈來處理嗎?還是有別的因應方式?"},{"start":252.945,"end":280.782,"text":"跟委員報告沒有 我們剛剛所謂的低中高還有所謂的低成本 除了飛彈防禦以外針對這個無人機中大型或者是小型無人機在戰場上各種作戰階段上的襲擾所以我們規劃了低中高三層的方式那另外也採取主動被動軟硬殺的手段無人機的反制系統都在這個台灣之盾整個空域空城不同的階段當中來去做具體的規劃"},{"start":281.602,"end":301.25,"text":"對我了解你有低中高三個層次但今天大家在問的是成本的射算就是我們的低中高如何符合一個相對大家可以承受的這個成本的比例因為對方會以量來壓低成本所以他可能就是最大型而且便宜的無人機的生產國那我們的不對稱作戰的戰略優勢就因為這樣子對方的量體而被大量的稀釋"},{"start":302.19,"end":316.172,"text":"那尤其是現在大家還要分比如說我要飛鴻供應鏈當然它有資安被控制的需求這我本席完全同意但是喔這個如果要完全走所謂的飛鴻供應鏈比如說我們同樣是無人機或者是這樣成本上的落差到底是多少國防部有沒有精準的射算"},{"start":317.69,"end":340.824,"text":"當然就像對照現在遠程火箭 中共的這個原火 PCH-101它單枚火箭的造價 那因此我們去採取目前用來最中高空的這個飛彈來去對應 那當然是不符合成本的需求所以我們才會在剛剛報告 我們希望能夠研發低成本反火箭的防空系統"},{"start":341.604,"end":362.402,"text":"所以因此是以這樣子相對應第一個它的造價第二個它所會造成供給的損害來去做相應系統上的建置跟接站的選定好 基本上這本席只是要做一下提醒啦因為你如果真的我要在要求你在這裡講出具體的成本恐怕國防部也會有點為難這本席完全都理解國防有些事情是這樣子的嘛"},{"start":362.822,"end":391.514,"text":"但是我要提醒的是這個對方可能會用這樣的方式啦用大量低成本的方式打消耗其實我們最壓力最大國防部壓力最大也是消耗啦希望在成本的設算方面能夠想出一套的方法比如說中科院的微波干擾跟雷射武器等等他能不能趕快的有一些比較具體的進度嘛而且這個無人機反制系統的部署其實也不是新興預算嘛應該是例行性都有在執行的這些相關的項目國防部預計要2026年完成相關的系統部署現在的進度到哪裡了"},{"start":393.394,"end":407.208,"text":"包委員你所說的系統部署指的是無人機反制無人機反制無人機反制系統就是所謂UDS系統都按照建案的期程規劃在今年會獲得各個固定設施的無人系統的部署"},{"start":407.765,"end":434.696,"text":"那陸軍有一個無人機的防禦系統目前按照採購作業的進程正在進行相關的驗收以及後續的接裝的作業這個因為本期剛調來這個外交國防委員會這跟無人機反制系統的報告你會後提供一份讓我可以比較清楚的了解這個相關的一些部署跟期程這個麻煩國防部會後來進行這個提供那我另外要提醒跟補充一下的是有關於關鍵基礎設施的防禦"},{"start":436.477,"end":461.671,"text":"因為對方如果用飽和攻擊的方式來處理比如說現在大家對油價等等非常敏感那我們的天然氣是大量的依賴這個國外的進口那這些地方很有可能如果真的不幸啊爆發了軍事衝突的時候這些除氣槽啊等等會不會成為被鎖定攻擊的這樣子的一個對象那麼針對這些特別敏感而且會牽一髮而動全身的關鍵基礎設施的防禦攻勢啊現在國防部有哪一些的因應措施"},{"start":463.544,"end":491.337,"text":"各位報告我是中科院院長那個我想上禮拜警政署已經開過了公開招商的說明會所有關鍵基礎設施的無人機防護系統會在明年底前完成建置明年底前完成建置好那同樣嘛那這一部分也請這個國防部提供報告我就是希望整體針對無人機的防禦跟反制措施啊我希望了解國防部明確的這樣子的一個期程另外我想問一下這個副部長來回答好了這個國防部去年八月就送了無人機戰鬥部隊的佳績"},{"start":493.178,"end":503.129,"text":"這大家都會同意的啊那為什麼拖到了今年的二月才生效中間有遇到什麼困難嗎需不需要我們幫忙講講話雖然現在已經通過了但是我們還是趕快關心一下"},{"start":506.673,"end":533.581,"text":"委員好 我是資源規劃司司長這個案子我們去年8月送給行政院那因為行政院還是有一個審查程序所以在會了相關部會以後在去年底有了一個審查意見給我們那我們大概在今年的1月5號又再把陳副意見報上去那也感謝行政院的協助在2月13號通過無人機部隊列入戰鬥部隊加急來指令他當初的審查意見是什麼原因才讓這整件事延長這麼久"},{"start":535.393,"end":558.304,"text":"我想因為無人機部隊對國家對我們來講是一個新建制的部隊啦那包括各部會包括海巡署都有相關的一個這樣子的一個規劃所以行政院主要各個部會還是對於它的一個任務性質跟各部會的一個不同的一個執行性質跟編制在做一個討論主要是這個樣子所以大概到去年底的時候才把審查意見給我們"},{"start":559.324,"end":565.359,"text":"去年底的時候才把審查意見給你們所以你們八月送的時候他拖了四個月才給你們審查意見這個好像有點久吧"},{"start":566.513,"end":593.059,"text":"沒關係啦 我不為難你啦因為我們現在政府都很強調國防優先這本席也完全同意 本來就應該是這樣而且政府一體嘛那麼這樣子的一個本來理論上應該是政府大家都會共同處理在野黨也不會反對的這樣子的一個案子你自己中間出現了一些delay其實是有狀況你如果難言之隱啦有的時候利用一下立法院讓我們幫基層的弟兄喊喊話也都不是一件壞事啦我不希望內部的一些行政流程有一些相關的一些耽誤"},{"start":593.559,"end":610.67,"text":"那我也要藉這個場合我要再次提醒你們聽就好了啦這個軍人待遇的這個全面增加歧途式的增加是有必要的嘛因為當初你們提了一套分別增加那會造成不願意往上升的狀況啊歧途式增加才是對於軍人不管是將官也好士兵也好全部一體式的全面的支持嘛"},{"start":611.27,"end":636.245,"text":"這個也才有助於你去培養新式的專業的有強化的精兵的這樣子的一個部隊你才有辦法去操作未來的比如說未來是以無人機為主體的這樣一個戰爭模式沒有一定的專業門檻單靠義務役 單靠絞肉機好像也不是一個好的不對稱作戰的方式本期最後一點點時間來提醒一下希望國防部可以我相信國防部應該也不會反對啦希望我們行政院可以從善如流好啦 幾位辛苦啦 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167513","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167513","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f60ffebcc9ddaae28e0bc6757ec415edbebfd7ce027fbc82e0ce33abcfce886a825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張嘉郡","委員發言時間":"11:23:42 - 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葉主委"},{"start":20.656,"end":34.06,"text":"好久沒有在質詢台上碰面了那今天呢我想跟主委討論的話題是有關於少子化的這個危機那根據統計呢台灣今年二月的新生兒數量僅有6523人創下"},{"start":38.541,"end":64.517,"text":"三月歷史新低紀錄與去年的同期相比更是呈現雪崩式的衰退衰退了37.32%少了3884人回顧去年2025年全年的新生兒還有10.7萬人但是目前的這個崩跌態勢來看今年的新生兒總數恐"},{"start":66.038,"end":83.232,"text":"跌破10萬大關我想這不是危言聳聽可能是目前的保守估計那我想請問主委您認為今年台灣還守得住10萬新生兒的這個防線嗎我們努力鼓勵大家多多生育"},{"start":85.137,"end":113.936,"text":"我現在今天就要問你 你的努力在哪裡你的實際的政策在哪裡我先繼續講一點事實上我認為國發會的人口推估一直過於樂觀我翻出2020年國發會發布的人口報告當時推估要到2054年新生兒才會跌破10萬結果現在的狀況就有可能在今年跌破整整"},{"start":115.237,"end":134.867,"text":"提早了28年耶 整整提早了28年當然這不是你任內做的模型 也不是你任內做的報告但是呢 我相信這是一個嚴重的脫節那民眾怎麼能夠相信說現在政府推出的少子化對策真的能夠對症下藥呢尤其我們從2018年到現在這個成立的少子化辦公室"},{"start":144.272,"end":169.526,"text":"到現在你知道花了多少錢了嗎?剛剛真正前委員有大概看了一下多少錢?一千多萬吧一千多萬跟一千多億你知道差多少嗎?我算了總共編列了高達5931億委員你那是累計的吧?當然是累計的啊"},{"start":170.6,"end":173.922,"text":"5931億就算是累計也很高啦 8年欸是多少錢欸結果你這些錢花下去了不但沒有成效還產生崩跌的效應那國發會有沒有思考一下說你現在是哪裡沒有落實還是你的正確方向不正確才導致"},{"start":196.705,"end":216.171,"text":"這樣子的結果呢因為就是台灣面對到很嚴重的不婚不生這個問題那我在中研院的同事也有做研究就是說目前我們的補助這樣的一個效果對於是不是能夠引導40的婦女去生育這樣的效果看起來好像沒有那麼的強"},{"start":217.131,"end":236.838,"text":"所以變成就是說我們可能要另外一個思考就是說我們的目前在推的一些政策可能有一些部分要做一些滾動式的檢討所以在少子女化對策計畫2.0這部分的話是希望從養育養育住子啊就養育養育住子這五大方向來來來來"},{"start":240.319,"end":265.096,"text":"看可不可以讓我們少子化應該是說主委 我跟你建議這個可能會是你主委任內最能夠做出成績的一件事情而且最能夠影響台灣的一件事情因為人力及國力啊我們人口一直減少這是一個國安危機而且這是你最能夠凸顯出你在主委任內最能夠有的作為你要想喔 2018年我們的出生人口還有18.1萬"},{"start":270.539,"end":275.565,"text":"到了2025年我們幾乎腰斬只剩下10.7萬而且在這當中我們是砸了5931億想解決少子女化的問題結果花了這麼多錢然後投入了這麼多資源"},{"start":289.929,"end":296.392,"text":"沒有半點幫助之外還腰斬了這真的是一個值得我們去省思的問題那我舉一個例子好了舉韓國的例子過去呢韓國是我們少子女化的難兄難弟我們差不多是同樣的狀況"},{"start":307.978,"end":324.03,"text":"但是他們2023年生育率那時候是低谷全球最低在0.72但是在2024年他們為了因應這個危機成立了人口戰略企劃部結果他馬上有成效"},{"start":325.111,"end":329.713,"text":"韓國的生育率已經連續兩年止跌回升2025年他們的生育率已經重新重返0.8新生兒人數呈現正成長還創下他們四年來的新高那主委你有研究過為什麼韓國可以而且他們是短短兩年內就開始逆轉成功這個是不是值得我們借鏡呢"},{"start":352.16,"end":370.958,"text":"這個部分我們會參考一下南韓以及新加坡的一些資料然後我們看說有沒有什麼地方可以進進不過跟委員報告一下就是說這個部分我們也會去跟那個陳時中政委那邊以及衛福部那邊做協調啦但這不是我們國防會督導的這個部分"},{"start":370.998,"end":377.42,"text":"我知道,但是你要建議啊,否則你國花費怎麼都不歸你管,根本就是不是一盛情啊我們會去參考一些南韓...國家發展都歸你管啊,我們人都沒了,還管什麼南韓跟新加坡的一些成功的一些方法,然後我們來做一些...我現在就告訴你關鍵在於哪裡關鍵在於政府有沒有覺得這是一個嚴重的事情有啊,當然有"},{"start":396.385,"end":398.628,"text":"政府有沒有決心說這件事情是我們國家要面對的嚴峻的困難會會我想韓國跟我們最大的不一樣就在於韓國他除了發放津貼還有各項的福利政策之外"},{"start":411.584,"end":427.134,"text":"他們更勇於去規定企業要接入育嬰福利而且大幅提升男性育嬰價的比例那韓國是政府帶頭聯手企業多管齊下在催生"},{"start":427.734,"end":431.438,"text":"那反觀我們 我們就是停留在撒幣發錢的這個傳統思想就不敢用國家的公權力去調整整個生養的環境我們國內就是男性申請育嬰的那一個比例有很大的一個進步是 但是我的意思是說你決心要拿出來啊"},{"start":449.995,"end":476.294,"text":"整個生養的環境是要政府帶頭去聯動企業把它帶起來否則你知道女性求職她一知道你懷孕了你可能就是下一個要被砍掉的人就是你了這個就是一個文化的問題嘛我們的企業不知道說要去保護我們的下一代甚至這些都是我們珍貴的國家資源嘛所以呢我真希望說"},{"start":478.075,"end":482.259,"text":"主委能夠真的大刀闊斧拿出決心韓國可以力挽狂瀾我們怎麼可能不能而且我們不是沒錢我們這短短幾年投了5900多億你知道5900多億可以做多少事情我們投了這麼多錢還一直崩跌 可見現在投的錢是"},{"start":505.09,"end":517.299,"text":"就已經投到水裡去了所以我希望這個政府展現決心把政策力道完全的把它展現出來用國安層級的高度來面對少子女化的這個問題好不好好 謝謝謝謝 謝偉好 謝謝張家俊委員"}]}},{"id":"167512","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167512","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6b04042f9fbb06699f4d454d79684183abfd7ce027fbc82e00be9ff9e72e124835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"11:22:01 - 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部也核定要針對鄉鎮的村裡的災防能力那內政部這邊會提供對應的一些他們需要防災的一些空間的一個補助那我想這個幫助很大"},{"start":45.359,"end":70.959,"text":"尤其是一些在比較偏遠的一些一些村裡的辦公室他基本上他們村裡辦公室就是防災中心就是村裡的防災中心那這個補助的幫助是有的所以在這邊先感謝部長那第二個那要跟部長來聊一下就是說我想這個是不是也請我們這個內政部國土署是不是也可以上來那"},{"start":74.627,"end":91.3,"text":"我們知道說現在整個土方的一個問題,很多土方是需要找地方去劃的所以這個問題我們必須要正視,而且現在就民間在說那個處理土方的費用一直墊高"},{"start":93.002,"end":115.302,"text":"這個墊高的結果有可能會造成未來的整個營建成本都是提高的所以它會產生的後續的影響是很大的那我這邊也是提供一個就是說 事實上我一直在講就是我們布袋商港 布袋商港的北側到東石的這個壽島這一塊是適合填海造路的"},{"start":115.842,"end":140.638,"text":"那這一塊怎麼適合呢?我直接給部長看看他這十年來的一個變化因為我們知道東石布袋外側就是外山頂洲那在內側有一個壽島那整體外山頂洲跟壽島不斷的在難移所以我們可以看看2015年的時候我在講的這一塊它這個是壽島然後跟三港的北側你看當時候的沙洲長這個樣子"},{"start":141.479,"end":169.536,"text":"然後到了2021的時候它就開始在持續的它是持續的不斷的在南漂來再下一頁然後到了2023、2025的時候你看它已經南漂到第一個島已經完全都已經卡住了這一個港取家這一個布袋第三漁港的這個港嘴這裡已經堵住了然後第二個這個受導的第二個島鏈也往下漂過來"},{"start":170.256,"end":197.003,"text":"所以就會看得到原本的這個出海口是在南端現在變成是在中端所以以這樣的一個趨勢咧也許再過十年我們看的這一塊這一個海域咧它就會被完全封住會被完全封住再過可能再十年所以大自然的力量會導致這裡會變成一個內陸化所以原本裡面有刺蝸鵝尾現在你看2025的時候現在鵝尾已經都清除了"},{"start":197.863,"end":202.967,"text":"就表示說這裡已經沒有辦法去從事漁業所以也沒有生態問題那既然沒有生態問題的話很遺憾的這一個海域還被劃為濕地因為當時在決定國家濕地的時候範圍劃太大把我們整個布袋跟當時我們整個海岸線都把它劃為濕地那很明顯的這裡的濕地名稱叫做"},{"start":223.722,"end":246.591,"text":"叫做瀑紫溪河口失地 但是這離瀑紫溪超級遠跟瀑紫溪的河口完全沒有關係他只是當時把整個海岸線都把他抓進來那如果我這樣給部長很清楚的看到這十年來因為受倒的難移 然後整個海岸線的變化現在受倒的第二個島鏈也已經快要往下再繼續擠下去"},{"start":248.112,"end":270.843,"text":"所以這裡就是一個很適合做填海造陸也可以協助去化土方的地方那中間這陣段就卡到說也許這個跟私地的一個私地保育法的競合關係但是不管怎麼競合我想內政部總是有辦法來做通盤的一個檢討那既然這塊地適合現在來處理土方那我們是不是可以加速來進行呢"},{"start":272.064,"end":287.641,"text":"好 謝謝蔡委員的關心委員在戴納斯颱風過後你就有跟我提到這個事情所以回來我們有做一下這個精進跟檢討的方案第一個這個地方是不是適合做所謂的填海造陸現在國土署已經把它納入我們在做評估"},{"start":288.302,"end":308.373,"text":"那第二個就是說失地保育法其實呢第九條的規定就是如果他是因為國家的重大公共利益跟委員報告填海造陸是屬於我們要辦理國土流失那個最重要的這個利益的時候我們當然要衡量輕重認為是填海造陸是非常重要的"},{"start":308.973,"end":324.145,"text":"但是這一塊整個的嘉義布袋的這個部分不管是北邊或是南邊未來有沒有其他的國家重要建設比如說海水淡化廠或者是說因為嘉義現在有CORUS的關係會有其他的重要的科學園區需要做這個競合"},{"start":325.226,"end":338.272,"text":"那這個淨河上面如果已經有畫出來說這塊區域需要做填海造陸的話那當然它是一個非常好的未來這個營建剩餘土石方乾淨的土石方的一個去化的一個目標我們會朝著這方面來檢討改進"},{"start":340.333,"end":355.507,"text":"好 那跟部長說一下就是說我們做海蛋廠的填海加入地點並不是這一塊所以這一塊又是新的那只是這一塊面積遠大於原本經濟部所規劃的經濟部大概那一塊只有20公頃那大概100萬方的土方就"},{"start":356.047,"end":371.024,"text":"至少這邊去化一千萬方都沒有問題這塊明顯大很多但是會不會影響到布袋港我們是不是需要跟交流部可以加加在城市評估但是不會影響布袋港的原因就是說它原本就是一個極端已經快要內陸化的一塊"},{"start":372.406,"end":395.694,"text":"一個海域的所以這個地方你看連那個鵝尾鴨都已經沒辦法進出了連最淺的鵝尾鴨都已經沒辦法所以它這裡的生態的功能幾乎是完全消失了是 我要跟委員報告不管是跟經濟部的水利署或者是交通部來聯繫就是我們填海造陸以後要做什麼譬如說我們現在台北港在接收剩餘土石方它是為了台北港為了要擴建"},{"start":396.994,"end":411.926,"text":"或者是未來的那個高雄的南興計畫區它有剩餘土石方法 它是要擴建可能當成是不是機場啦 或是其他的這個循環經濟園區使用不是說純粹土 但是那個地方 要有一個所以要做一個整體的 會面的時候總統也有來布袋這裡然後稍微跟他說明一下 市長總統也覺得說有一些方向讓我去思考"},{"start":420.533,"end":434.261,"text":"那我也覺得我會認真去思考未來要做什麼這件事情但是呢總是這個前提作業因為如果目前他還被沒有辦法啟動天海造作的話很多後續的計畫是也沒有辦法去認真去啟動的"},{"start":435.642,"end":457.52,"text":"報告委員那個院長他會跨部會來處理這塊事情那也知道那個蔡委員的關心有時間他可能要到現場去看那就會把內政部經濟部還有或者交通部相關的部會甚至國科會會籍召集然後來處理這一塊我想這個對於台灣在處理國土流失以內政部的主管機關來看的話我們是樂觀其事好 謝謝部長 謝謝"},{"start":463.242,"end":469.829,"text":"謝謝謝謝蔡議員謝謝好我們登記發言的委員除了不在場"}]}},{"id":"167511","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167511","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6bd5388729f20df20f4d454d79684183abfd7ce027fbc82e039431ddb69bbbff55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"11:13:05 - 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本席有請劉部長首先本席想就道路改善工程跟交通執法的問題來跟您就教首先第一個我們看到114年全國路口不停讓行人違規的案件有12.6萬"},{"start":30.826,"end":38.476,"text":"我們看到業務報告裡面寫114年1月到9月科技執法的設備取締重大違規有119萬3659件"},{"start":42.827,"end":60.274,"text":"那我們絕對不是反對執法但是我們想探討的是如果道路設計本身沒有改好那人民卻一直看到更多的照相機那並不是看到更多的安全這種情況下"},{"start":61.334,"end":61.955,"text":"報告委員 我覺得兩組都需要"},{"start":80.489,"end":104.725,"text":"工程改善需要时间但是现在每天发生车祸的时候就是还是需要有执法人员强力执法所以两者一定要并行好两者并行那我们接着就来探讨那我们工程的速度我们总是可以看吧我们工程补助的速度时程在哪里这点部长我可不可以请署长跟您回应一下好那署长简单讲我时间有限"},{"start":106.858,"end":114.944,"text":"跟委員報告我們每年都有依照補助計畫人行環境的一些相關的改善或者是交通路口那輔導地方政府來去做申請"},{"start":116.428,"end":135.94,"text":"那現在就是說,如果我們這個像行人行川線沒有退縮,屁股島也還沒有設,騎樓還是高低不平,那轉角的視距死角也還在,那我們有再多的科技執法呢,我們都會讓人民感覺到說,我們把這個"},{"start":138.402,"end":162.591,"text":"道路的安全設計責任丟就直接丟給用路人所以我們是不是可以請中央就是說內政部這裡有沒有辦法一周內來盤點那中央對於我們地方政府譬如說我想請您盤點對新竹縣那能夠補助加速地方規劃施工的項目清單一周可以嗎"},{"start":164.363,"end":182.061,"text":"各位報告那個個案的部分由地方政府這邊我們再去協調他提出那這個部分也涉及到交通部以及地方的交通局那每個案子的狀況都不太一樣那沒關係我接著講有關我們校園安全能不能從一所學校變成一張路"},{"start":182.842,"end":198.289,"text":"也就是說我們也很感謝啦我們國土署確實都陸續有在補助我們學校周邊的道路交通安全的這個改善那這個通學步道的改善有時候就是那30公尺50公尺"},{"start":199.469,"end":218.884,"text":"那孩子走離開學校30公尺50公尺又繼續進入行人地獄這種情形我們中央有沒有想好能不能把校園安全擴大成上學的整條路都安全呢那不然感覺就是做半套這個部分看怎麼來改善好不好"},{"start":219.794,"end":241.228,"text":"跟委員報告這個目前所有的計畫在推動都有這樣去要求但是因為涉及到地方要去溝通協調的事項非常多所以是地方的問題因為這個東西都是第一線在我們是督導而且補助會不會地方他整體規劃可是上來你們錢就只給一點沒有我們會再去檢視他實際上要執行的內容"},{"start":242.088,"end":255.743,"text":"所以如果他全盤性,那你們也是會整體給?對,因為我們這些補助項目也涉及到一些相關的交通預算所以整個是在中央部會裡面會有一些相關預算來補助"},{"start":257.705,"end":282.006,"text":"好 那我想我們還是要特別跟中央來反映我們罰單只可以改變一時的行為我們改善工程才能夠改變我們民眾每天的命運那再來本席請教部長我們有看到公路法它的修正我們也認同把汽車燃料使用費證明為公路使用養護安全管理費"},{"start":282.947,"end":297.658,"text":"而且這個費用是由公路主管機關統一徵收之後交通部會商內政部辦理那分配的比例我們可以了解一下嗎交通部跟內政部分配的比例報告委員"},{"start":298.888,"end":324.33,"text":"因為法律還沒通過,法律通過以後分配的比例還沒有,我們的還沒修正啊現在交通部也還沒有告訴我們分配的比例是怎麼來處理啦但是我是覺得從事實上來考量我們應該就是從公路自己本身要養護怎麼樣讓公路更安全,能保障用路人的安全來處理,而是不要"},{"start":325.43,"end":345.116,"text":"就是說很硬性的就是說是5比5或是7比3那所以在行政院的大安匯報裡面院長他都會做財事也根據各種不同縣市政府裡面的需求用這樣的經費來處理有關於道路安全的事項不管是軟體或硬體的改善都會放在這裡面那本席想向內政部提出"},{"start":345.836,"end":369.015,"text":"你們是不是在跟交通部未來一定會協調嘛對不對協調的時候我們內政部因為本身國土署這裡也有一些道路改善的部分我們是不是可以提出地方道路需求模型那我們主動提出來才能夠跟他們來共同協調那我們這邊可以有這個分配的比例這個部分請署長"},{"start":372.29,"end":394.315,"text":"謝謝委員 這個部分我們會再朝這個方向一個計畫要強化我們市區道路的重要更貼近人民所以我的重點是內政部要主動提出你這個模型然後你在討論的時候當然交通部他們也有一些經費也是會到地方但是內政部不能行政帶多你要主動提出"},{"start":395.055,"end":420.815,"text":"交通部在分配預算的時候我們會把一些相關的需求整合進去把一個整體性的規劃在那一個區域裡面一起來做改善那本席提的你們是不是也可以內政部自己要提出這個需求的模型好我們自己本身也會依照我們會提好那這到時候的情況是不是也可以有一個書面給我們我們再跟交通部協調以後再把一些資料給委員"},{"start":422.644,"end":439.252,"text":"好 謝謝最後 本席想就教部長我們過去很多年來等於我們知道台北是我們的首都所以首都的很多建設它也代表著我們的門面那現在新竹市"},{"start":441.033,"end":456.12,"text":"等於台灣科技的心臟那同時也創造了整個台灣經濟基金很重要的經濟命脈那所以新竹可以說是科技的首都所以在這個經費補助的運用上是不是可以有一些優先"},{"start":459.108,"end":484.893,"text":"報告委員我們都是依法行政經費的補助上面應該按照財政收支劃分法裡面的級別來做補助那如果是專案計畫譬如說剛委員提到今天如果是國科會不不你講的通俠性我都知道嘛我現在的意思就是說這一個思維大家比較忽略台灣經濟的命脈然後又是科技首都這個部分是不是可以來強化"},{"start":486.719,"end":503.136,"text":"我想您還是能夠提出它是哪一種專案那我們才能就這個回答否則我們要面對22個縣市的委員大家都說他們是什麼首都什麼首都那我回答的部分有回答跟沒回答是一樣的所以我特別講了嘛"},{"start":503.356,"end":527.135,"text":"台灣經濟的命脈大家講到科技講到半導體我想新竹大家是不會否認的所以科技首都這個部分我們不是說要專美於前不是而是在這一塊大家是不是可以也不是大家啦就我們中央這裡能夠特別強化這一塊可以思考一下啦好不好好謝謝好謝謝許信英委員"}]}},{"id":"167503","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167503","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6b5453d915d0d7e140bc6757ec415edbebfd7ce027fbc82e0165d56d12b5959f05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳超明","委員發言時間":"11:12:54 - 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因為常常的都一直在做調度大家都很擔心啦 心驚膽跳的你不想要人空子是天然氣發揮掉的 你不想廣元工會要失財"},{"start":170.874,"end":191.342,"text":"不會啦 因為經濟部都已經在協調中然後我想到一個問題你現在推動AI的轉型是全民共識但是你們宣導的力道非常的弱我看到你們在報章雜誌都在寫你們的政績偶要怎麼做沒有幾個偶 我會看"},{"start":194.424,"end":216.138,"text":"這跟委員報告我們那個AI新時代建設在1月的時候經過行政院核定之後的話我們3月4月初會出一支影片尤其那些什麼電視台啦名嘴在講話叫他們做一件功德你去買時間叫人家說AI對台灣未來發展有重要沒重要大家去聽不然你只有這樣"},{"start":217.359,"end":241.932,"text":"我講做功德,不然有些都是胡言亂語啦是是是這說得對,回補台灣一下把AIS當成全面的共識台灣要推動這樣的計畫台灣才能轉型,容易站在有利的競爭地位好不好我們會加強廣宣啦只是說也要請委員支持因為我們有一些廣宣的費用一直沒有辦法通過你的任務裡面,除了五大的信賴產業"},{"start":243.673,"end":269.914,"text":"你最重要就是推動AI新十大建設你也到韓國考察 認為AI對於國立理想的關鍵性在於應用能夠落地 這個最重要這個會應用落地非常重要我之前有跟你們講過 目前的分工軟體的話在市委部 白宮 白鋭在你們經濟部"},{"start":272.765,"end":293.943,"text":"在那個經濟部啊你是國外的主導單位啦我會說這裡面有偏差我覺得事務部啊你給他專門去做打造的軟體如何去仿如何各種能查信得到因為所謂AI的產業裡面落地的時候要跟實際在配合"},{"start":294.904,"end":302.429,"text":"你這裡有特別說到產業AI化AI產業化你說有智慧應用還有關鍵知識還有智慧的基盤我帶你這個車要賣這麼多"},{"start":310.856,"end":323.364,"text":"所以你在說AI要產業落地的話現在作為我們堅實的後盾裡面培育新世代人才培育實力產業實作人才高專業的人才"},{"start":327.475,"end":340.456,"text":"那關鍵技術你要曉得很重要這裡面一定要去突破不然我們機器人沒有用一個頭腦MVD還是MRE他們都在發明這個我們台灣要做有困難"},{"start":343.866,"end":366.323,"text":"關鍵的技術在哪裡?就是眼睛跟頭腦跟手腳這要像人的靈魂,技術是太重要所以我們用機器人,這很重要不然你要用金工、造物、產業都在使用這個技術一定要來推動當然人才很重要,技術要靠人才"},{"start":367.444,"end":373.456,"text":"所以在這我一直告訴你們要實際的推展尤其百工百業在用"},{"start":374.471,"end":399.408,"text":"有,經濟部都有在做啦,經濟部推的很有用硬體台灣大概很強,要來追有困難但是在軟體的應用裡面真的要加強有有有,經濟部都有在推AI市產線不是啦,我講的是司衛部來的你那個軟體我講啦,沒有助力我現在再跟你講一下,我了解AI懂AI的人,不一定懂得技術,記得這句話"},{"start":401.169,"end":415.24,"text":"懂AI的人不一定懂得技術你只懂AI你不懂得產業的技術的我們AI推動的人不是你所以這個要突破另外有一點非常重要"},{"start":416.241,"end":434.392,"text":"懂AI也懂得產業機制的人他擔心他個人公司的競爭力怕技術外領能逃倉博所謂AI的落地應用你真的要想出一套好的辦法去解這個是實地在推展目前所遭遇的困難"},{"start":436.436,"end":464.372,"text":"這個我會跟那個數方部協調我看你是在做事情啦 人家都很相信你來 再來我一個問題我一直跟你講陶瓷廟大溪谷計畫我們職人科學研究第二期你們當然是適合計畫的人但是我常常叫你們出來跟我協調職人科學研究第二期大溪谷計畫國科會不敢當主管機關他怕說要拖地"},{"start":465.593,"end":488.243,"text":"這個國科會沒有擔當 只有給學士機構那些國科會我實在不放心因為為什麼 他們已經成立習慣在南部的開發都是用公有地台場的土地但是在北部沒有北部沒有我們要產生一個方法 方式來解決"},{"start":489.79,"end":506.337,"text":"我幫你擺脫整個變了 你都這樣不回應我看你是實在是做事的人不像做官的人我以為你做官應該要有什麼做事啊有啦 有在做事啊 現在都沒什麼工作會議啊 開那些協調會議啦我告訴你 我自己要求兩件"},{"start":513.2,"end":528.595,"text":"如果可以的話,我們不要國科會當主管機關,我們由經濟部當主管,你給我們報到行政院,我們就先來開花。不是這樣說,你協調的單位這樣就沒人要做事了嘛,三個人,靠水沒水好啊。"},{"start":536.621,"end":552.563,"text":"我只拜託你一項,你應該替我們去爭取,跟行政院說,引渡這個困難,國科會不會期間中說,也沒有那樣的人才,也沒有那樣的人力,乖乖的不會地方的協調。"},{"start":553.644,"end":578.367,"text":"因為那是屬於 國科會單位主管機關授權給苗栗政府開發他要30公頃50公頃的肉地 我們給他 談好價格給他這樣不跟事情會突破 不能說那裡不行 這裡不行要做多少人做什麼事情就是要突破困境 解決問題 才是做官的能手"},{"start":579.37,"end":605.668,"text":"財政真正能替百姓服務 我只拜託這兩項我會持續追蹤 要不然我開始幹掉啊你這個政府無能 這樣做這個問題沒辦法讓人改觀我跟你講我還要問一下 委員這要喊國科會你喊到國科會 國科會的態度很明顯嘛為什麼那麼怕 你不做別人可以做啊國科會我沒有辦法督導他啦怎麼沒有辦法 這個政府沒有辦法"},{"start":607.554,"end":616.833,"text":"我感覺這樣政府是無能的應該可以去協調怎麼講沒有辦法我們在法國安教我們也是要去一再加油三的協調"},{"start":618.928,"end":637.356,"text":"你這有誰想要來做什麼事情?我本來對你期望很高,今天我要繼續執行,但是我們的灶位站起來了。你看,今天穿著西裝黑衣,老命在微笑,叫我要下執行台,下次站久一點啦。好,謝謝。"}]}},{"id":"17269","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17269","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77dbdc5f31f4729d12f531f5512258f740a5157d0edf07c12ea6d293920e9210a3655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-03-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-03-16","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-03-16T08:34:49+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-16T12:03:00+08:00","duration":12491,"影片長度":"03:28:11","委員發言時間":"08:34:49 - 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PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":689.824,"end":691.357,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":807.97,"end":808.051,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":853.37,"end":854.032,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":916.638,"end":916.719,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1081.625,"end":1081.705,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":1300.299,"end":1300.421,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":1534.079,"end":1546.957,"text":"好 立法院第十一會第十一屆第五會及經理委員會第二次全體委員會議請主秘報告初期人數報告委員會初期委員12人已足法定人數好 已達法定初期人數現在開會"},{"start":1548.943,"end":1550.024,"text":"進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議事錄"},{"start":1568.712,"end":1587.543,"text":"一立法院各委員會組織法第三條之四規定立法院各委員會是召集委員二人由各委員會委員於每會級互選產生二選讀本會及本會召集委員選舉的名冊選舉事項選舉立法院第十一屆第五會及本會召集委員一立法院各委員會召集委員選舉辦法第五條規定召集委員之選舉"},{"start":1588.503,"end":1615.512,"text":"與吳敬明單計法票選之但經各該委員會及全體委員或經各黨團及一位參加黨團及該委員會委員之虛名同意亦得以推選方式行之主席宣告推選委員邱志偉及委員洪玉祥二人為本院第十一屆第五會期本會召集委員散會宣讀完畢好 謝謝現在這三位委員人數還不足算人意思是我們這樣不處理來 這個繼續進行報告事項請宣讀"},{"start":1618.763,"end":1634.386,"text":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概括並備執行宣傳品好 這個本日的議程本席排列由國家發展委員會做業務報告請國家發展委員會葉俊賢主任委員做報告"},{"start":1641.981,"end":1648.865,"text":"主席各位委員以及媒體先進大家好很高興也很榮幸今天能夠來經濟委員會報告國發會的業務來做一個國發會業務報告那因為時間相當緊湊我想就直接進入到我的報告的主題"},{"start":1657.771,"end":1676.151,"text":"那報告的大綱大概分三個面向 第一個面向是經濟傾斜分析 第二個面向是市政方向與重點那這個市政方向與重點的話 大致上會從產業面 人才面以及居民發展這個三方面來跟大家介紹一下國發會未來的市政方向跟重點 那第三個就是介於下一頁"},{"start":1676.977,"end":1699.791,"text":"那就整個國際經濟情勢來看的話全球經濟成長率是一個溫和成長但是漸漸的一個趨緩那2026年的預估大概是2.6%到3%之間那也是從2021年以來是得最低那就全球的CPI年增率來看的話漲幅也明顯的降低但是"},{"start":1700.531,"end":1728.96,"text":"關注但我們必須要關注近期的一些地緣政治的一些衝突那預估2026年的預測大概是2.6到3.8左右下一頁那在整個風險的今年的風險跟挑戰方面大概有四個面向第一當然就是地緣政治的風險那在中東的衝突升溫時的國際油氣的價格大幅的上漲那根據今天的那個八點的那個西德州的原油大概是在97塊左右"},{"start":1730.1,"end":1749.865,"text":"那布蘭特大概是103塊那天然氣大概是3.09塊那地緣政治的分化的話主要會牽扯到美歐跟美中的一些貿易衝突那在國際經濟政策不確定這個部分來講的話就是美國IEP的那個關稅被宣告違憲之後的話美國貿易貿易署以及美國社會財產局"},{"start":1751.625,"end":1779.761,"text":"開啟一系列的一些調查包括301跟337那也有可能會擴大到232的一些調查的範圍那在金融市場變化方面來講的話我們必須要去關注就是說FED降息的時程以及它的降息的幅度還有股市過於集中在科技類股那在中國政經風險這個部分來講的話我們我們必須要去注意到中國的一些消費新興的不足還有房地房市的低迷以及產能過剩還有地價傾銷以及高層的一些權鬥"},{"start":1780.661,"end":1796.541,"text":"那下一頁那在台灣今年的經濟成長率就主總的預估來講的話大概有7.71%左右那整個GDP的規模大概會上看32.5兆也就是大概有約有1兆美元左右的這樣的一個規模"},{"start":1798.463,"end":1824.576,"text":"那今年的經濟成長跟去年來比相對的會弱了一些那主要的原因是因為基期的因素所以今年各季的經濟成長率會從第一期最高一直慢慢的下滑到第四季的低點是3.09那這最主要原因是因為基期的因素那今年整個經濟成長的動能會來自於跟去年相類似就是因為出口帶動的一些投資"},{"start":1825.396,"end":1852.419,"text":"那在出口這方面來講的話在由於ART跟MOU的協議確定之後的話降低了廠商的一些不確定性那以及今年全球CSP的大廠的資本支出大幅度的增加所以在出口方面來講的話大致上會維持成長的一個趨勢那增長的幅度大概有22.2%那就整個投資部分來講的話也是因為出口的增加所帶動出來一些民間投資的增加"},{"start":1852.959,"end":1875.574,"text":"還有就是說政府目前正在推行的AI新市場建設以及五大信賴產業那整個投資會往上增加大概4.24%那就整個消費來看的話消費跟去年比較不一樣消費今年是因為大致上是股市創新高還有成交量大幅的上升還有政府調高的最低工資以及"},{"start":1876.934,"end":1901.062,"text":"減輕了一些稅負的壓力所以使得消費這個部分來講的話也會往上增加大概2.51%那就物價這個部分來講的話還是一樣就是我們期望的目標值維持在2%以下那預估來講的話今年大概是1.68%那就最近目前的觀察來看1到2月的那個整個物價上漲大概是1.23%"},{"start":1902.402,"end":1929.703,"text":"那但是因為中東的一些軍事衝突使得油氣的價格會有一些上漲的一些趨勢那行政院副院長也在每週召開臨時的物價穩定匯報那也宣示了五項的強化措施來穩定物價所以短期來看的話在國內的物價上面來講的話應該是不會有非常大的一個波動下一頁"},{"start":1930.343,"end":1956.454,"text":"那就整個市政方向來市政方向與重點來看的話大致上分成三個部分一個是創新領航匯集人才以及區域合作那現在先就創新領海這個部分跟大家報告那創新領海這個部分的話有三個面向一個是AI新時代建設還有文化現代產業以及資金區驅動創新的發展那就協調推動AI新時代建設這個部分來講的話"},{"start":1958.616,"end":1977.371,"text":"大致上分成三個部分跟大家報告第一個部分就是智慧應用智慧應用這部分來講的話我們去年在2025年製造業AI普及率達到22.7%那資訊與服務業的比例的話大概有37%那我們今年希望製造業能夠到30%那資訊以及服務業能夠到達40%那就關鍵技術這部分來講的話我們去年建制的矽光子、量子以及"},{"start":1986.158,"end":2011.401,"text":"機器人的研發中心那我們今年跟明年希望產研合作那強化我國技術的自主能量那就數位機盤這個部分來講的話我們去年已經建構台灣主權AI的訓練與醫療庫那我們今年跟明年希望運用資料創新然後推出多項的一些智慧正譜的服務那這些執行這一些這一些AI心思達監測其實非常有助於我們"},{"start":2012.341,"end":2026.927,"text":"國家來提升我們AI的排名那依據全球AI指數在2025年的排名來看的話台灣排在大概第16名那我們希望就是說在2028年能夠進步到14名那2032年是第10名那2040年是第5名"},{"start":2030.908,"end":2034.031,"text":"那希望在2040年能夠創造15道產值50萬個就業機會以及三座國際級的國家實驗室然後達成賴總統的台灣成為科技智慧島以及實現AI everywhere這樣的一個願景那接下來就統籌推展五大信賴產業這個部分來講的話就半導體這部分"},{"start":2050.064,"end":2062.655,"text":"而言的話 我們建置了先進半導體的研發基地還有推動了材料設備制度那我們今年希望能夠建置矽光子高速驗證的實驗室提供檢測服務 以利縮短業者開發的時程那就人工智慧這部分來講的話我們成立了主題式的百億基金加強投資AI相關的一些產業"},{"start":2072.183,"end":2075.226,"text":"同時也開發了85條的AI市產線那我們希望今年能夠透過產業競爭力的輔導團將AI工具導入產業落地的應用那就安控這個部分來講的話 速發部已經公布了資通訊供應鏈產品"},{"start":2087.695,"end":2102.911,"text":"晶片資安驗證制度那同時也發布了Semi187半導體設備資安認證驗證的制度那我們今年將推動安控產品的履歷通明化以及資源性的揭露"},{"start":2103.872,"end":2115.401,"text":"等機制那帶動產品可信賴化那就軍工方面來講的話我們核定推動了無人載具產業發展統籌的一個計畫那無人機的產值大幅的成長到去年的129億元那我們今年將持續的補足無人機關鍵技術的缺口那並強化國內的產能那希望能夠產值能夠達到200億"},{"start":2130.653,"end":2151.271,"text":"就次世代通訊這個部分來講的話經濟部簽署了台歐盟的一些合作推動6G的技術雛形系統場域的驗證我們今年希望能夠持續的協助台廠投入低軌衛星地面設備以及基地研發"},{"start":2152.432,"end":2165.847,"text":"那在資金驅動創新的這個部分來講的話根據GEM國家創業環境指數台灣是位列全球第二名那我們希望在2028年達成每年大概1500億的新創投資的目標"},{"start":2169.21,"end":2186.979,"text":"那就整個資金投融資這個部分來講的話在直投方面來講的話我們已經完成69家還有835億的一些累積的投資金額那創業天使這個部分來講的話也有到300家以及178億元"},{"start":2188.8,"end":2196.883,"text":"那我們未來希望能夠擴大投資額度以及從50億倍增到100億還有新創設立的年限從5年擴增到8年那就主題是基金這部分來講的話我們已經投資的加數有680家那帶動民間投資有834億元那我們未來再規劃會規劃大健康以及運動產業相關的一些"},{"start":2211.887,"end":2215.91,"text":"主體式的百億基金那就海外佈局來來這個部分來講的話我們將海外投融資的那個貸款額度貸款額度從300億倍增到600億那就整個擴大投資標的這部分來講的話我們今年會舉辦那一個創業的比賽那"},{"start":2235.49,"end":2242.215,"text":"這個比賽是全台最大的一個創業的一個規模比賽大概有2800家的一個團隊報名那創業金有達到了大概3億元那裡頭分了三階段的一個培訓以及全程的一個陪跑那目前300強已經揭曉了"},{"start":2255.064,"end":2268.357,"text":"接下來在5月會選出白組的潛力之星那未來在執行方面來講的話我們第一名到第三名會頒發總統獎那大概創業資結金會有1000億那第四名到第九名是院長獎那創業資結金會大概600萬"},{"start":2273.018,"end":2292.497,"text":"那第10名到第100名是綻放獎那大概會有300萬的一個獎勵金那在惠居人才方面來講的話分成兩個部分就是人才競爭力的躍升方案以及雙魚環境那人才競爭力躍升方案來講的話分成國內跟國外國外的話我們會比較著重在"},{"start":2292.637,"end":2296.46,"text":"攔財這個部分那攔財這個部分的話外國人才專法在去年已經立法通過那我們今年會分兩階段來實行那就國內的那個賠財育財訓財這個部分來講的話我們也會持續的在校園內培育新世代人才以及校園外"},{"start":2313.735,"end":2324.545,"text":"賠利產業的實作人才那未來推動的重點會我們會舉辦第一次的跨部會的一些推動全球攬產的一個行動那在7月的時候我們會在美東舉辦一場在10月的時候會在美西舉辦一場等"},{"start":2328.513,"end":2349.763,"text":"那在周延雙語環境這個部分來講的話我們的一些階段性的成果已經使得監理所銀行跟郵局還有醫院都逐步的提供一些雙語的服務那就在強化公司協力方面來講的話我們也跟商圈以及夜市那輔導廠商推出雙語菜單以及建設雙語導覽的系統那另外在未來的話在整個雙語環境的躍進方面來講的話我們"},{"start":2355.286,"end":2374.714,"text":"也提報了一個方案到行政院那我們希望藉由三大策略來進進雙魚環境第一個就是優化雙魚工作環境第二個擴大雙魚生活網路第三個是進進雙魚的公共服務那最後一項就是跨越跨越服務那裡面分成大概四個面向那第一個"},{"start":2375.914,"end":2396.673,"text":"最主要就是說均衡臺灣的發展是賴總統的核心政策那具體落實將藉由均衡臺灣重大建設以及推動六大區域產業及生活圈然後來達成三大願景也就是體新之爭就業繁地方然後均衡臺灣的發展讓全民共享經濟的成果"},{"start":2397.133,"end":2423.208,"text":"那在推動六大區域產業與生活圈這個部分來講的話我們階段性的在水電設施方面的話完成了桃園以及新竹貝園管線的一些工程還有在產業輔導與轉型方面的話推動了推動無人機聯盟那在中部地區已經促成了35件的國際合作那累積海外訂單達到有38億那在工商文化建設方面來講的話我們推動了沙輪AI"},{"start":2426.15,"end":2441.551,"text":"運算資料中心的建置 那規劃辦理他預計在2028年完工這樣子那在均衡台灣重大建設方面來講的話比較指標性的一個成績在北北基方面的話就是國家鐵"},{"start":2442.952,"end":2470.301,"text":"國家鐵道博物館那在桃竹苗這個部分來講的話就是桃機的第三航廈那在中章雲頭的話大致上就是下輪海水統籌供水中心那在未來的話我們也會陸續的來執行一些比較重要的一些政策譬如說陽明交大附屬醫院的第二期以及國七高雄路段高屏二塊以及高鐵延伸屏東"},{"start":2471.081,"end":2482.074,"text":"那在精進公共建設治理方面來這部分而言的話在佈建均衡台灣重大建設的同時我們也思考如何讓公共建設提高它的一個效能所以在整個執行整活這部分來講要從2018年推動預警機制引導"},{"start":2486.298,"end":2490.204,"text":"公共投資穩健成長從推動以來的話執行率都達到93%以上那2025年的整體經費的達成率更高達95.43%不管是從執行的金額以及建築來講都創18年的新高那未來我們也將"},{"start":2502.099,"end":2521.79,"text":"持續讓整體公建經費的執行目標達到95%那最後一項就是除了專注在建設的執行效能我們也思考如何引進民間資金到國家發展上面那據主計總數的統計2025年的台灣的超額儲蓄有5.4兆那今年更預估有8兆之多"},{"start":2522.13,"end":2544.336,"text":"那這些充沛的資金如果能夠移植到國家建設將有助於公司協力一起投資建設台灣那在2026年的一個工作重點來講的話我們發展策略性的一個產業我們希望就是說把數位建設納入重大的工界可以享受相關的租稅優惠那擴大國家融資保證的額度擴大到"},{"start":2547.079,"end":2560.898,"text":"1560億那保險業試用也會努力的推動保險業試用公共建設投資的一些等等的優惠同時我們在明年會成立一個單一平台然後整合"},{"start":2561.559,"end":2571.951,"text":"所有民間的投資那對於整個民間投資要挹注到整個國家建設方面來講的話我們會有一個單一的一個平台那這個單一的平台會協調各部會就每一個申請的案件然後做客製化服務 以上"},{"start":2580.354,"end":2591.31,"text":"謝謝主委的報告這個主委的報告很詳細也規劃到今年度的施政計畫這些施政計畫對未來是非常重要的但是那個"},{"start":2592.95,"end":2613.8,"text":"中央政府整個預算至今還沒有付為審查對你們施政會不會造成影響對就是說我們就比較重大像AI新十大建設的話我們原本的預算是311億啦那預算假如沒有過的話會影響大概102億左右那這個部分來講對我們來講是還是講是最後的狀況依然沒有付為審查"},{"start":2615.02,"end":2641.036,"text":"那你們要這個針對所有你們私人機會要做什麼因應做調整那他在最有限的在最不受影響的範圍之內能不能穩健的推動這個部分提醒一下葉主委謝謝葉主委 先請回座我很快的介紹今天列席了國會的這個列席的同仁那不用起立也不用揮手所以國會葉俊賢主委那另外是張方冠副主委"},{"start":2643.252,"end":2650.736,"text":"謝謝綜合過渡署李佩玉署長謝謝經濟發展署陳美菊署長社會發展署張富林署長產業發展署蕭振隆署長人力發展署謝家宜署長國土區域離島發展署黃文彥署長謝謝"},{"start":2662.405,"end":2691.04,"text":"管制考核署李奇处长法治协调署林志美参事处长中医新生红号专业办公室吴文贵主任档案管理局林秋莲局长陈寅是欧阳玉平代理主任秘书是副主任人事是陈一军主任主席是廖玉琳主任"},{"start":2692.768,"end":2720.545,"text":"政務是劉孟秀主任另外還有國際基金管理委員會王庭安執行秘書謝謝來好我們先確定一下議事錄在場委員足法定人數請問在場委員是不是針對上次會議議事錄有無錯誤沒有那我們就無錯誤就議事錄確定好現在我們要進行詢答"},{"start":2722.22,"end":2729.568,"text":"委員宣告之前主席原理做以下宣告每位委員實踐發言時間本會委員6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘非本會委員"},{"start":2734.684,"end":2754.751,"text":"4加1分鐘我們上午10點10點截止發言登記那我也要提醒我們諮詢委員為了會議的進行順利也兼顧我們委員發言時間的公平性以及避免影響下一位諮詢委員的權利是不是請諮詢委員能配合以諮詢時間結束之後"},{"start":2756.292,"end":2780.082,"text":"因停止發言如果再繼續發言的話主席會予以制止請各位委員盡量配合謝謝好現在進行諮詢第一位首先登記第一位諮詢請邱盈瑩委員好謝謝主席我請一下主委請國會議員主委"},{"start":2786.658,"end":2813.625,"text":"主委早主委早所以我想這個剛聆聽了您的這個施政報告我想這個還是感到佩服國發會其實業務包山包海那這個從科技管到體育管到交通管到農業各方面都管講到體育的部分這個主委我請教一下您看棒球嗎我看棒球看嗎看了看了你是棒球迷嗎"},{"start":2815.303,"end":2833.936,"text":"應該算是但投入的程度可能沒有非常的投入我想這個上個禮拜或者是一直到今天為止全世界都在封WBC那台灣英雄到日本去比賽的幾個場次我相信主委您應該或多或少都會看了一下"},{"start":2834.776,"end":2848.149,"text":"那在這一次的比賽當中其實台灣隊裡頭有一個非常重要的選手叫做Stu Future他的媽媽是台灣人所以他被我們職棒的蔡會長延攬到這個台灣隊來代表台灣出賽"},{"start":2850.424,"end":2870.501,"text":"那表現非常的優異那比賽完 在比賽的過程裡頭其實就有非常多的網友一直在敲碗說這個趕快要給Future台灣的健保卡那要給台灣的身分證但是這些東西還沒有拿到以前我想國發會率先就提出了要給Future台灣的就業金卡"},{"start":2871.441,"end":2898.62,"text":"這個我也想要來跟這個國發會來討論一下我們的就業金卡其實實施到現在從2018年實施到現在為止我們的有效持卡人大概是8318人但是主要的持卡人的這個領域大概還是以經濟教育科技為主在體育的部分其實只有佔了25件這個比例相對來講是非常的少"},{"start":2899.52,"end":2923.211,"text":"我想請教一下國發會基於什麼樣的理由或者是基於什麼樣的考量你們對於Fairchild希望能夠發給他就業金卡有沒有是因為他在這個比賽裡頭表現優異還是說你們未來在所謂的體育領域上面的就業金卡的發放"},{"start":2924.091,"end":2950.959,"text":"或是審核有沒有一個標準或者是有沒有建立一個機制第二個問題我想請教就是說未來在體育項目我們的人才延攬的部分國發會有沒有一個專案計畫或者是說有沒有跟運動部去進行過討論未來我們在體育人才的延攬上面跟運動部有沒有什麼合作的計畫來 主委"},{"start":2952.419,"end":2964.328,"text":"就委員的第一個問題來講的話就是說我們對於每一個領域他都會有一個審查的要點就那個Fairchild這個部分來講的話我們會協同運動部針對運動領域的第四點由職業運動聯盟或運動團體推薦然後據產業貢獻潛力的話會主動邀請他申請那個就業金卡"},{"start":2976.536,"end":2989.502,"text":"所以他還是要來申請你們是邀請他來申請還是你們要主動發一個就業人機卡給他我們已經主動跟運動部那邊聯絡了那也把一些申請的一些文件都已經給運動部"},{"start":2992.463,"end":3009.371,"text":"好 你一次就回答了我兩個問題其實這個跟運動部其實是有做過討論但我要提的是說台灣其實現在的整個體育的發展已經在蓬勃的進展當中不只是棒球 籃球 甚至羽球或者是有很多的項目"},{"start":3010.211,"end":3025.766,"text":"更或甚至不只是選手連教練或者是他們的防護員等等他其實是一個產業鏈的所以像這些東西是不是國發會也能夠持續的跟運動部來進行更多的討論"},{"start":3026.647,"end":3048.866,"text":"或者甚或是我們的國訓中心大概也會需要很多類似這樣的一些教練等級或者是防護員等級是不是也能夠提供給他們這樣子的一個就業金塔我覺得我認為這是對他們來講是一種honor也是對台灣的選手的另外一種職業的保障訓練上面的保障你同意我的看法嗎"},{"start":3049.326,"end":3064.623,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們目前也在跟運動部接洽就是說我們其實有百億的主題式的百億基金我們也在跟邀請某個程度來講邀請運動部來申請這樣的一個主題式的百億基金那這樣一個百億基金的話"},{"start":3065.503,"end":3089.989,"text":"運動部就可以開始規劃他要用什麼樣的一個計畫來針對教練針對防護員針對什麼樣的一個譬如說整個運動產業鏈上面哪一個關節他覺得必須要有資金挹注的話那都可以經由這樣的一個主題式的百億基金來做一個資金的一個挹注這樣子好 我希望在這個部分上面我期許國發會能夠更積極主動一點"},{"start":3093.03,"end":3114.215,"text":"那第二個問題我要請教的在您剛剛的報告裡頭其實您談到了五大信賴產業我比較有興趣的是在這五大信賴產業裡面我們講的半導體人工智慧什麼次世代通訊安全控制等等其實這個大家都一直在談很特別是你們今天談到了一個軍工產業"},{"start":3116.516,"end":3131.255,"text":"這個軍工產業就是所謂的無人機的發展計畫但我覺得比較可惜就是說在國發會的報告裡面對於軍工產業對無人機的發展計畫只有短短的幾行字主委我想請教"},{"start":3132.56,"end":3155.193,"text":"五大信賴產業裡頭您在軍工的這個發展的比重上面會佔多少無人機的運用現在大家最廣為人所知的是運用在戰爭上面不對等的作戰烏克蘭的戰爭我想很多包括這個媒體都有寫台灣製造的無人機出口暴增而且是流向二烏戰爭"},{"start":3158.306,"end":3180.116,"text":"除掉了戰爭的這個因素以外其實無人機的運用場域可說非常的廣包括我們在農業上面的無人機噴藥或者是在醫療上面的用無人機去送藥無人機的救援等等生活是在昨天結束的嘉義燈會用無人機點亮了嘉義的夜空"},{"start":3181.403,"end":3206.808,"text":"所以整個無人機它不只是在軍工產業上面我認為它是在整個無人載具的發展上面我想知道到底國發會要用多少的比例多少的心去協助或者是去扶植這樣的一個產業起來那不對等的作戰其實在武器的構制上面台灣面臨的非常大的困難"},{"start":3207.788,"end":3214.776,"text":"不只是對外買軍購困難甚至連在台灣自己在國會裡頭都被處處執軸所以在軍工產業的發展上面國發會應該要怎麼樣做協助"},{"start":3221.345,"end":3230.613,"text":"就軍工產業這個部分來講我先跟委員分享就是說無人機這個部分來講我們的產值2028年預估要達到產值大概有300億2028年嗎2028年對2028年預估今年會預計會到200億那我們也會配合的整個國際的"},{"start":3242.544,"end":3249.308,"text":"的情勢譬如說像美國現在正在推所謂的非紅供應鏈尤其是在無人機這一塊那我們也會努力的透過經濟部的一些輔導專案讓台灣的無人機產業能夠在台灣落地生根以及增加它出口的產能因為非紅供應鏈這一塊的市場其實相當大就好像委員剛才有提到就是說我們無人機的出口暴增了大概35倍主要都流向惡物戰爭"},{"start":3270.879,"end":3288.901,"text":"那未來的話其他的一些應用段上面來講就好像委員講到他可以用在農業上面他可以用在防紅防災上面那這個部分來講的話至於比例我現在沒有辦法跟委員保證但是整個的發展以及焦點我們會放在這個部分同時我們也很"},{"start":3289.441,"end":3315.009,"text":"我們也在關注整個軍工產業的發展不管是在日本或是以色列我們希望都透過所謂的創投的這樣的一個基金去挹注它然後去得到一些關鍵性的一些技術跟零件這樣子好 謝謝主委的回答因為時間到了我就不耽誤但是我想私下我想還要再繼續請教一下主委對於這個產業我們的輔導方向跟我們能夠提供的協助方向好不好 謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":3319.257,"end":3339.187,"text":"謝謝邱議員 謝謝葉主委 謝謝邱議員 一向是本委員會的楷模接下來請內閣委員 內閣委員在本委會質詢的數字可能會越來越少明年要去施政備詢了好 存照主席指示了好 請內閣委員謝謝 來 請葉主委請國安委葉主委"},{"start":3347.739,"end":3373.501,"text":"主委我先請教一下其實去年整個台灣的經濟狀況表現相當的良好很強勁大概是這15年來最佳也是全球第二整個經濟成長率那今年大概預估上看7.7主委你也是經濟學者出身的那你怎麼來看待這個台灣現在的整個經濟的道路上包括我們在整個是不是走到一個正確的道路上那今年的整個經濟狀況你怎麼來看"},{"start":3374.562,"end":3396.557,"text":"我覺得今年的整個經濟狀況的話主技術預估7.7%我覺得還是蠻有機會可以達成那最主要原因就是因為我們的出口會持續的跟去年一樣那因為全球的CSP的大廠大幅度的增加它的資本支出那原本很多預設機構都預估大概只有6100億美元左右但後來都慢慢一直在調升調升那調到現在目前大概有7500億美元左右"},{"start":3402.901,"end":3432.181,"text":"那這也是為什麼就是說很多機構對於今年的經濟成長的預估他都一直在上調的原因那主計總處大概比較前進一點他調的比較多那我想也最主要看到就是說因為整個台灣的出口相對非常的暢旺那帶動了國內的一些民間的投資還有整個經濟的活動越來越活絡那尤其是我們股市"},{"start":3433.261,"end":3454.656,"text":"那成交量一直在創新高所以這也帶動我們國內一些消費的因素所以主委其實也是更認同這個主席總署甚至於更看好有機會更突破這個數字我們當然期待了那另外當然是經濟景氣的部分現在看來這兩個月都是紅的這兩個都是紅的那主委怎麼看呢今年剛開年的狀況一直到年底"},{"start":3456.93,"end":3474.264,"text":"我覺得這一個部分來講的話景氣燈號我想應該有機會持續的再紅下去因為我們去年來講的話因為出口暢旺的關係對 出口暢旺的關係因為我們去年來講的話各位想像去年這個時候的話其實我們的出口大致上還維持一個平穩狀態"},{"start":3475.245,"end":3499.448,"text":"但是在4月2號從川普宣布的那個對等關稅之後的話整個出口有稍微下跌但後來又逆勢爬上來所以我覺得今年就整個機器來看的話我覺得今年還是相對蠻樂觀的所以主委也是相對樂觀那我看了一下整個在製造業的部分其實包括台積電也看好我們包括電子機械鋼鐵石化在今年的景氣狀況也會不錯"},{"start":3501.229,"end":3527.549,"text":"主委怎麼看對尤其我覺得就這個部分來講的話尤其是機械以及工具機這個部分還有鋼鐵這個部分假如說我們的那個ART跟MOU能夠順利的通過的話我覺得對於傳產這個部分來講會有很大的一個激勵的作用對我們的技術產業會是一份一個重要的一個強心針對特別是鋼鐵這一段時間比較辛苦一點但是我們也希望第二季之後能夠有一個好的狀況對"},{"start":3528.51,"end":3544.371,"text":"那工具機跟所有的包括這些電子看起來整個狀況應該是會越來越好我整理上來看那這樣我就要回來問了我們的總預算到現在還沒有過這個對於我們今年的整個這些經濟狀況包括經濟生產力會不會受到影響如果持續沒有過的話"},{"start":3545.692,"end":3554.823,"text":"當然就我剛剛跟各位報告就是說我自己就是統籌的統籌這個部分來講的話311億裡面大概有102億被卡在那個預算沒有辦法過主委如果我們"},{"start":3560.469,"end":3582.3,"text":"看整個總的啦因為國發會算是一個小內委甚至是政府的一個大佬的角色如果而且您也是經濟學的出身的如果這個總預算遲遲的卡住的話我們看到裡面其實有很多包括將近3000億的部分如果遲遲沒有省的話他會影響到我們後續的一些新增計畫包括我們延續性的計畫的增加的部分甚至於一些預備金的運用這個會不會影響到我們經濟跟我們整個產業的一些發展這當然會因為就整個"},{"start":3588.743,"end":3611.309,"text":"單從整個政府支出來講的話 假如3000億沒有辦法通過的話對於整個國家的GDP的影響的話 至少當然有百分之0.01左右百分之0.1的影響 0.01的影響那就整個的 他所帶出來的一些外溢的效果的話除了你的0.1只是初估 因為他還沒有估到外溢上可能會產生的效果甚至很多的"},{"start":3613.79,"end":3623.374,"text":"所以我覺得這一塊恐怕也要讓國人更加清楚也要讓立法院的朝野更加清楚這個無論如何不應該讓整個總預算審查影響到國家整個經濟發展跟整個產業上的發展"},{"start":3627.883,"end":3655.924,"text":"這個可不可以請主委再估算的更清楚一點給我一個數字好不好我希望知道比如說如果我們拖到因為現在看來已經開億了那如果在今年的上半年沒辦法完成總預算的審查這些將近3000億是無法動之的話那對我們的經濟的包括成長率對我們整個所有的一些會產生多大的一個影響這個會請一個禮拜內給我一個評考因為就好像我剛剛跟各位報告就是說我們國內的GDP的產值目前為止的話大概有33兆左右"},{"start":3656.325,"end":3683.925,"text":"那你再除以大概把它乘以百分之一的話大概就是大概是三千億左右所以這個是我目前大概你用這樣出推但是它一樣會有擴散的效果會有一些成熟效果這個部分我因為我覺得你也是專家學者也是院長對這些事項要了解我也希望了解一下同時也讓社會各界知道它的影響層面有多大那我覺得可能立法院也要審慎來評估不要因為政治上的因素而影響到國家整體的一個方程"},{"start":3684.645,"end":3705.692,"text":"再來我請教一下這個大南方新矽谷的這個產業這個也是相當重要其實很多的不管是水到再生水廠到電到各方面這個都持續在發展中那這個如果遲遲不通過其實對南方上面大南方的整個新矽谷是很不公平它影響到的嘉義台南高雄屏東都會影響到所以我也希望這塊持續來加速來通過"},{"start":3709.375,"end":3723.736,"text":"接下來我想問的因為時間很有限我再問一下那我們的國防特別預算如果他沒有辦法通過的話除了我們的國安的問題跟對美的關係對世界各國的關係以外對我們的產業會不會產生一些重大的影響"},{"start":3725.027,"end":3742.994,"text":"這個部分當然就是說會接連的會影響到整個國防相關的一些供應鏈的一些問題那譬如說像我們國際國造國建國造這個部分的進程的話就會被拖慢很多甚至無人機甚至AI相關的產業嘛這很多是坐落在"},{"start":3743.874,"end":3756.393,"text":"台灣的甚至於坐在中南部的文載劇的文件的這些的甚至AI的這個都是那如果我們遲遲沒有辦法來他不只影響到我們國家安全同時也影響到我們產業的一個進展這個部分"},{"start":3759.597,"end":3787.526,"text":"主委有推估過嗎如果不過了跟不過的話對於我們整個產業跟經濟上面的一些影響這部分我目前還沒有資料我是不是等會後也幫我一樣推估看看好不好也讓社會各界更理性的思考這問題它不只是涉及到台灣的國家安全涉及到台灣的外交它也涉及到台灣的整個產業的轉型台灣的升級甚至於很多的產業對這個如果我們政府有挹注到我們本土的產業我們的無人載具我們的AI的這個產業的話它有機會整個升級的"},{"start":3789.227,"end":3818.379,"text":"好不好這也請主委是不是一樣也一個禮拜的時間也評估一下你們的狀況讓我知道一下最後我再請教一下採劃法的部分其實對於南部其實很不公平這個採劃法所以院版也出來了那但是如果這個採劃法遲遲不通院版遲遲不通過的話其實光高雄就實質損失的目前算起來是144億而捷運的這個短缺就103億這個我想要也請主委幫忙能不能也協調院方那邊也協調一下"},{"start":3819.079,"end":3831.033,"text":"包括相關的單位裡面讓這些重大的建設不要受到影響就整個軌道建設跟那個捷運建設的話院目前的立場是會優先來治癒嗎對不對不會受到影響嗎這個很重要因為"},{"start":3835.397,"end":3861.005,"text":"台北的捷運其實雙北的快速的興建完成了那中南部其實都包括邱委員的往北的包括包括我們我跟李大委員往南的甚至於黃縣都積蓄這些經費那每拖延有可能就拖延一兩年這個對當地鄉親是很影響很大的好不好請主委大力來協助推動所以院版的那一個裁判法通過的話其實對於地方跟中央這是第一個第二個也是希望能夠盡快的讓整個補款項能夠補進來的好謝謝"},{"start":3865.612,"end":3894.351,"text":"好 謝謝賴委員謝謝葉主委賴文榮質詢一向是非常有深度一向非常有水準那相信他以後備詢的時候一樣會表現很精彩昨天我夜觀天象恐怕明天在此時此刻在這邊看不到你要找你可能要去市政府來 謝謝賴委員下一位請洪義祥委員洪義祥委員出登板"},{"start":3905.003,"end":3906.805,"text":"好 我們有請這個葉主委 葉主席國安會葉主委委員長 早"},{"start":3916.582,"end":3932.633,"text":"我就開始了我是把這個業務報告都看完了還是一樣的問題那個簡報寫的比這個報告好所以請你們可能下次先把簡報的內容先附上來好"},{"start":3935.764,"end":3955.564,"text":"我想在往下講之前我先大概說明一下我對國發會的定位其實應該是我們國家的發展的策略的規劃然後的話整個在我們的一個重大的一些的境界也就是說你要規劃我未來台灣五年十年會長什麼樣子"},{"start":3957.523,"end":3979.599,"text":"那經過一連串的討論所以你才會有這個戰略然後我才會有戰術然後我才會有對應的騎乘的milestone然後載到你的檢討可是呢在這樣子的一個文件裡面的報告我覺得我現在還是看不到這樣的東西這個可能高度再去把它修正一下"},{"start":3980.399,"end":4000.476,"text":"我可不可以跟委員報告一下就是說其實目前行政院在推的那個13項關鍵的戰略產業的話其實跟日本目前的那個經濟安全的那個保障接下來要推的有大概17項戰略產業以及8項的一些制度上面的措施"},{"start":4001.076,"end":4022.452,"text":"那就我們來講的話 我們也去看了他們整個的那個經濟安全的規劃那所以我們院裡面的目前的這13項的關鍵產業其實是有分三個支柱一個是分國內的 國內部分的話會跟民生經濟有關係然後另外一方面是外面的 也就是說外在環境的局勢的改變"},{"start":4023.052,"end":4046.123,"text":"那另外一個就是還有一塊就是說我們如何因應內外的情勢變化那我們要開始去盤點我們的一些產業那目前為止我們現在盤出了大概13個產業那這13個產業的話大致上是以五大信賴產業為主再加上AI新時代建設裡面的希望值量值以及那個沒關係我讓你慢慢去看那個事情再講下去我講不完來"},{"start":4047.323,"end":4069.31,"text":"所以我的定位上很簡單整個我是覺得這個東西來講的話國發會還是要做我們這個領航的一個舵手那個舵手的話其實就是要很清楚也就是說你是一個我們國家政府的高級的智庫那第一個問題來講的話就是你的報告的裡頭一開始的時候就是引用主計處的7.71的一個經濟成長率"},{"start":4072.771,"end":4073.753,"text":"可是你在2月3號的記者會是寫4.11目標4.56所以短短"},{"start":4080.202,"end":4101.193,"text":"一個月就提升了這麼多所以這個是是數據的問題還是你們當時的預估是低的就是說現在是樂觀的對 就跟委員分享一下就是說剛出二月的時候的話其實就好像我剛剛講的那個全球的四大CSP的廠商對於資本支出這個部分來講的話我們那個時候"},{"start":4105.896,"end":4128.087,"text":"推估是稍微保守一些那我們也去看主計總括反正你最後的四字就是以主計處的為準好不好對我幫你講了好來下一個你常常在講AI新十大哪十大第一個就是說我們有那個快一點就好我都幫你背完了"},{"start":4128.908,"end":4158.117,"text":"我背完了你有背完有有有就是第一個就是智慧生活圈這個是國科會負責那另外就百工百業智慧應用這是經濟部負責還有那個軟體登峰這是數法部負責那這上面是正三角形上面那一塊中間那是關鍵的技術關鍵技術有所謂的矽光子以及量子還有那個機器人那矽光子這個部分是經濟部負責那量子跟那個機器人這個部分是國科會負責的"},{"start":4159.277,"end":4185.906,"text":"過關啊請把你們每天喊的再多我的問題是很單純的就是因為我也寫過太多這種東西的計畫那個國發會給我的感覺就是帶便當一起來撿到籃裡都是菜所以在這裡頭來講的話剛剛賴業榮委員問的對不對或者是邱委員問的每個人都有各自關心的不管是在無人機對不對不管是在南方的大溪谷好 那我關心的是"},{"start":4187.206,"end":4209.311,"text":"這麼多裡頭的預算到底哪一些是用在軟體應用的發展台灣太偏向硬體的應用發展那你現在不用回答我回去好好算一下然後我要看一下這個比例到底多少那你看看多久再交給我這樣子的一個預算的評估的報告因為我不需要把這所有的錢都拿去補這些硬體"},{"start":4210.543,"end":4221.378,"text":"那這個在重要的軟體的應用的發展你應該要提出來點出來這件事情是不夠因為像那個速發部靈異進步那個太少了那個我到禮拜三再來質詢他就好來"},{"start":4225.219,"end":4246.16,"text":"那你們這個新十大建設的話說實在的很多都是沿用過去的包裝所以我是覺得這一塊的地方當然也無可厚非反正就是不同的總統會有不同的口號但是我就是回去一樣請你再算一下到底哪些是新增的計畫就是我真的新編預算不是讓各部會代便當預算過來的"},{"start":4247.361,"end":4266.798,"text":"那這樣子我才能看到出這裡頭這麼多錢的數字跟委員分享一下就是說AI新十大建設其實是只集在五大新來產業那我們從五大新來產業慢慢去拓展出來沒關係,因為我寫過太多了我寫過M台灣、I台灣、行動台灣、智慧台灣都一樣"},{"start":4269.861,"end":4290.815,"text":"這有時候是我寫的 是不是智慧城鄉你也知道是幾百年前的東西再來時間不夠的關係我現在要問你的就是說很多的問題這邊的話我大概簡報也會給你們將來去參考或者是我們會來看第一個就是AI建設這件事情很多都是空頭的"},{"start":4292.336,"end":4321.085,"text":"就是說我首先拿一個例子來講就是你的智慧化的這個政府這邊來講服務的話要列出好幾百項三十幾項三十九項你要推動多少其實你的這樣子的一個服務的東西其實對我沒有感覺民眾是沒有感的我們常常看到這些都是KPI都是數字數字三十九項三項到底這個東西是什麼其實我要看的是你的錯誤率是多少實際的使用率是多少我到底這個有沒有解決我的問題所以這個是第一個建議"},{"start":4322.318,"end":4344.393,"text":"那我為什麼要這樣講因為過去當然這個現在已經不歸你了啦這個可能跑到速發部去了所以你可能鬆了一口氣以前這個審計部的時候或是我們立法院預算中心這個東西官方承諾的服務對不對這是左邊你現在的承諾但是現在是速發部在管他有沒有節省行政成本那這個東西來講其實我們的訂閱項目服務的滿意度其實很慘的"},{"start":4349.125,"end":4358.033,"text":"尤其在買Data啦以前的ePlus所以如果我們國安會做一個監督管考單位要把那個民眾的KPI再去稍微把它定一下"},{"start":4359.758,"end":4385.275,"text":"那再來地方創生我是支持我還去參加你的這個對不對地方創生日但是我的問題是這樣子因為我是1.0嘛你到這邊是3.0的地方創生我希望的是這個東西呢不要是補助完就不見了因為我們學界有很多的批判說這個是盆栽市的創新然後你跟地方政府的這個地方有很多是擱淺的29%那我覺得這個地方"},{"start":4388.297,"end":4395.191,"text":"看看將來就是把這個KPI都改成是營運型態的KPI然後那個退場的機制把它給弄好"},{"start":4396.261,"end":4423.337,"text":"最後我挑一個比較關鍵的我關心的是國發基金的踩雷的問題因為這個地方來講過去在盧新東背跟聯合再生的這些的案子裡面我覺得這裡頭牽扯到監督審核跟政治的決策所以基本上我希望把這些的東西把它列入我們的一個具體的要求也就是你國發基金的一些管理辦法列到產創變成法治化"},{"start":4423.777,"end":4446.11,"text":"那你的創新創業活動少做一點這個他要去做資金的規劃然後AI新時代建設剛剛那些預算軟體的比例跟風險那這個再希望你再去幫我們做處理好不好OK 謝謝私下跟委員溝通好 謝謝洪運祥委員主委先回座下位質詢請鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":4452.645,"end":4476.032,"text":"宗教育委員也是本委會初登場時間6加2謝謝沒關系 你要準備一下"},{"start":4500.984,"end":4522.587,"text":"好 首席 在場的委員先進 列協政局局長官員會長 公眾夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請葉主任委員 國會葉主委委員長葉主委我好像是第一次在這個經濟委員會跟你請教我最近有觀察到國會因為你來好像變得更活潑來我們看一下"},{"start":4523.53,"end":4546.855,"text":"WEC你看了沒?看了你們國發會大家看到廢宅擠出紅布浪開不開心?開心所以你們馬上說趕快聯繫廢宅的經紀人我要給他就業金卡是這樣嗎?是是喔?結果呢廢宅有沒有給你回應呢?還是運動部蚌席的經紀人回應怎麼樣?廢宅要不要帶他的新婚太太一起來台灣用就業金卡?"},{"start":4547.475,"end":4571.898,"text":"還在聯繫當中但我們那個就業金卡提供他非常多的一個哪些好處來就業金卡有什麼好處第一個就是說他可以沒有次數的可以進出台灣然後放寬這是放寬公眾碼就好像委員的那一個簡報上面重點是大家看到眷屬可以依親居留我想台灣的球迷都希望看到他們兩夫婦一個在啦啦隊一個在球場上拚搏對不對"},{"start":4573.839,"end":4591.914,"text":"但是我覺得除了肯定之外呢我們來看一下就業金卡應該不是這麼第一次嘛有沒有過去哪些就業金卡的方向潛力譬如說YouTube的陳世俊還有經濟領域台積電的人資處處長吳思廷經濟領域還有MBA的霍華德運動領域對不對我們國外就業金卡有哪些領域"},{"start":4593.26,"end":4621.871,"text":"總共有12個領域有12個領域好那你的目的是什麼目的是找這些人來做你的招牌嗎你背後的政策目標是什麼我背後的政策目標就是促進台灣的企業產業的轉型我想也是因為他們做了航棒之後能夠吸引更多不亞於他們或者說他們雖然是亮眼的但是有其他能夠大量的來投入為我們台灣所用對不對對好我們看一下但是我們看一下你目前就業經考的申請比例有點怪怪的"},{"start":4622.751,"end":4647.556,"text":"你看經濟科技教育呢加起來就超過了四分之三其他的法律建築國防運動才有一趴而已12個領域當中我們為什麼會有出現這樣的一個分布的極端分配呢主委你的看法是怎樣因為我們國內相對的就是說最近這幾年半導體相對的比較蓬勃發展所以對於這部分的需求相對比較多好 但我們會滾動式檢討我的意思是說"},{"start":4650.317,"end":4675.555,"text":"這些就業金卡是不是冰山一角反映出底下台灣在這12個領域的人才需求的不同數量好 那很好 那請問你告訴我台灣在這12個領域的人才需求你們有統計 有預估嗎你們什麼機制來判斷台灣在科技領域需要多少人 幾萬人台灣在運動領域需要多少人所以我們就從這些領域當中透過就業金卡吸引這些人來有沒有一個這樣的一個規劃目標"},{"start":4678.035,"end":4705.937,"text":"有沒有你們吸引人才有沒有分12個領域希望有個目標數我今年這個領域要吸引一萬五千個人有沒有我們有依照那個對於每一個領域他未來的那個人才需求我們有做一些推估啦推估好那這個推估怎麼推估出來的你攬財的目標如何設定是反映出產業的需求還是反映出目前我們國內人才培養不足的缺口到底你是問了哪些部門問了教育部問了經濟部還是問了勞動部"},{"start":4708.575,"end":4714.565,"text":"產業的需求也有以及國家政策的方向也有有沒有一個明確的一個評估方法一個機制有沒有"},{"start":4715.799,"end":4741.563,"text":"你這個提供給本席 我很好奇因為國發會很重要 很樞紐你必須了解勞動部那邊現場的情況怎麼樣產業面未來的需求怎麼樣教育部人才的培育的未來供給量怎麼樣所以你對於這個國際人才的膽才你才會設定目標 是不是這樣對 我們會後會同書面資料來現在台灣的人才缺口擴大中現在全世界少子化第一名是哪一個國家 生育率"},{"start":4742.762,"end":4764.119,"text":"可能不是我們就是韓國吧沒有啦 韓國已經被我們超越了我們現在是最後一名啦新加坡也很嚴重啊我們才看到二月份的新生兒跌破7000現在才6000多 這個大家都新聞啊所以呢 魏哲家說台灣人才不夠那怎麼辦 人才缺口 少子化不足用什麼方式 其他國家怎麼做 往下看"},{"start":4765.2,"end":4783.81,"text":"新加坡跟日本都跟台灣一樣面臨少子化的新加坡啊他沒有到什麼就業金卡人家功成名就的才邀請他他從大學端就出手啊我常去新加坡啊他們的新加坡從馬來西亞鎖定那些優秀的高中生招引來新加坡大學過了三年兩年他們就評估"},{"start":4785.41,"end":4809.261,"text":"四年就業要畢業的時候他就請新加坡的公司延攬他還給他一個PR 你知道這樣做嗎你們有跟教育部這樣的構想嗎台灣每年收那麼多的境外生這些有沒有我們未來需要的產業人才有 我們對於那一個橋外生來我們台灣念完書之後留在台灣的那一個你們跟教育部有合作嗎有有有合作計畫給我了解一下好"},{"start":4809.761,"end":4817.37,"text":"日本不一樣 日本的他不從大學上多少他嘛 重金懸賞啊他出來條件比台灣好啊你知道日本的條件有沒有比台灣好"},{"start":4818.274,"end":4843.841,"text":"你有沒有比較過?人家開的薪資水準比台灣高,同樣是國際人才,他跑到日本,他跑到台灣來幹嘛?你了解嗎?有沒有做過比較?這個比較的結果也給本席看一下,我要了解,往下看修法後,我們去年才修法,修法後台灣的纜財稍微有一點點提升但是從舊保來講,舊保險來講,台灣的限制是要永久居留權才可以日本不限定用居權就可以用啊"},{"start":4844.482,"end":4850.517,"text":"適用勞退制度 台灣是排除中階技術人員日本是不限工作身份都有用 主委你知道嗎"},{"start":4852.857,"end":4878.546,"text":"這個不了解對不對你們的同仁要趕快幫你做跨國比較搶人才不是台灣自己內部的產業在競爭我們要跟其他國家競爭好嗎好那這個部分要做好那往下看那纜財我們還有哪些條件可以放我們看一下我們的權益保障依照身份我們有分級影響到他的就業保險勞退跟補助目前最嚴重的就是中階技術人才他沒有辦法自由轉換雇主工作彈性低對不對這個部分要不要檢討"},{"start":4881.375,"end":4908.432,"text":"好那什麼時候可以給本席一個檢討後你們的評估報告我們會後會後會後是什麼時候待會就可以跟你拿嗎一個月嗎一個月可以好那你一個具體的我們目前雖然上會席修改了兩台專法但相較於其他鄰近的國家我們是不是有需要強化的地方我也希望這個國發會要好好的去做一個思考好最後我們來看一下"},{"start":4910.013,"end":4934.694,"text":"攬財專法,我們因為人生的少,人才不夠所以去外國求便宜,開條件去吸引人家這不是台語說的不是套路啦最後還是要怎樣?生育率要提高嘛生育率提高是國發會的責任嗎?請問一個分工,權責是誰?老跟少是那個陳時中政委在督導是,老跟少是他督導,那衛福部要去對不對?"},{"start":4935.882,"end":4950.728,"text":"但是你們也可以貢獻是是是懶惰的人才廢仔跟他老婆會不會在想台灣生小孩會不會會我覺得不會最近Dcard一個什麼台灣的職場怎麼對待孕婦的有沒有看到這篇文章有沒有看過"},{"start":4952.168,"end":4974.015,"text":"有沒有知道我們的職場的不友善對家庭的生育不友善不只是政府的制度沒有誘因而已我們的職場文化對於懷孕這件事情是不友善的這當然不是國發會的權責但是國發會你要去統合其他部會如果說這些懶男的財願意在台灣長留久用是我們的希望是"},{"start":4974.955,"end":4995.111,"text":"他如果決定在台灣定居移民也是我們內政部要去爭取他如果在這邊生小孩更好小孩生了他就在這裡穩定了是不是這樣子所以你的攬財專法只是中間這一段但是往前往後延伸勞動部的職場條件經濟部的企業文化我們教育部的對境外生的招生"},{"start":4996.972,"end":5019.708,"text":"還有到我們的衛福部對生育的補助 這個都是需要的來 請告訴我在這一塊懶財專化 你後續有沒有可以幫忙第一 定期的評估機制 就是人才的需求缺口這個你答應要給我 一個月後另外 人才長留九萬的配套措施有沒有包括友善職場 讓這些懶來的財在職場的時候 對他們的生育有友善"},{"start":5020.589,"end":5046.377,"text":"可不可以是你一個方法可以可以喔好謝謝我們希望看到呢廢宅帶他的新婚老婆啊在台灣不只辦了就業金卡還在台灣生小孩好不好好你答應了嗎沒有啦我會努力讓這樣的事情發生是會發生好謝謝謝謝總幹部委員謝謝主委主委先請回座應該要鑽石卡鑽石卡好不錯好下一位資源請楊瓊英委員"},{"start":5054.619,"end":5058.263,"text":"謝謝主席 陽泉發言人邀請主委國安會議員主委委員長"},{"start":5064.827,"end":5092.532,"text":"主委好 國防會在3月9號你表示1月份的景氣燈號是亮紅燈認為國內的經濟是穩定的成長但是在同樣這個時間裡頭我們看到中東的戰勢升溫而且赫姆茲海峽這個航運受阻所以在整個全球能源的供應是進入到緊張的狀況"},{"start":5094.452,"end":5099.256,"text":"所以我們看到世界各國都已經開始在做管控或者是節能的預備動作像印度他們很多的餐館也有準備要歇業因為能源問題"},{"start":5110.524,"end":5137.202,"text":"像這個越南他也要求企業必須要遠距辦公室來節省來節省這個燃料的這個部分他們都在節燃那在我們國內我們看到台塑化跟台塑它發出了不可抗拒的這個通知所以在上游的乙烯跟丙烯供應不是很確定不是很確定那下游塑膠包"},{"start":5138.183,"end":5162.508,"text":"塑膠包彩的部分報價也已經都在上漲而且據聞大概市場價上漲了兩成六兩的塑膠提袋漲幅也大概有四成左右尤其在醫療用的乳膠的手套這個非常的重要在醫界裡頭也出現了缺貨也有廠商他不敢報價他也不敢報量在這樣的一個情況之下"},{"start":5169.699,"end":5184.985,"text":"這個統裝瓦斯統裝瓦斯現在啊大概有漲了大概40塊左右坊間在查問所以顯示了能源的衝擊已經從整個石化的產業趨向在民生的這個末端裡頭"},{"start":5186.109,"end":5206.436,"text":"那但是在我們官方裡頭我們是看到一個這個紅燈而且是穩定的一個成長所以我們沒有看到能源緊縮所帶來的結構性的一個能源結構風險那在整個的評估這個主委"},{"start":5207.136,"end":5223.954,"text":"我要請教 當全球都已經進入到能源爭奪跟供應商不是很確定的一個時代連石化業的原料都出現不可抗力民生物資也開始在漲價的這個情況那你的連續亮紅燈 你是不是會擔心"},{"start":5230.2,"end":5238.827,"text":"有沒有將剛剛本席所說的這些的因子放入在裡面還是你認為我們的人員沒問題我們有買不完的原料來源請教主委"},{"start":5243.8,"end":5259.114,"text":"因為那個中東的那個軍事衝突是在2月底的時候啊那我們那個國發會那個緊急登報2月的時候其實是在統計資料以前這個部分也要謝謝主委你真正承受 但是跟委員跟委員報告就是說"},{"start":5262.998,"end":5288.605,"text":"那我要給社會大眾了解 因為大家有疑慮那也謝謝主委你說的你是在二月初發布這個紅燈的這個部分那這一些的事項在二月中二月底陸續出來所以你換句話說二月初所發布的這個紅燈是沒有包括剛剛本席所說的中東的戰爭以及能源的這個危機 是不是"},{"start":5289.994,"end":5296.841,"text":"我們發布的是1月的緊急動作對 所以沒有納入嘛沒有納入嘛對 2月的我們還沒有對 好 來請說明對 就這個部分來講的話因為政府院長召開的那個穩定物價小組的話他現在是變成是每一個禮拜他都會開那"},{"start":5308.292,"end":5322.24,"text":"在上個禮拜他也宣示大概五項措施那也就是雙環長以及專案的環長還有對於器材油以及大宗原物料的稅賦上面的減增來講的話也擴大到50%那對於農業部這個部分來講的話他也持續的在關注所謂的肥料的價格這個部分"},{"start":5333.587,"end":5348.72,"text":"那其他的一些政府部門也都會關注著整個物價的那個波動的情勢那避免那個業者在哄抬價錢或是壟斷還好主委你說明了因為你在3月9號表示今年1月是紅燈大家會一誤以為"},{"start":5352.663,"end":5370.826,"text":"我們還都是2月3月都是紅燈會誤以為所以本席也希望你們所做的措施要給社會大眾來了解我們理清楚要將這些的因子納入進來那講到了末端的民生這是最重要的所以本席具體建議統裝瓦斯不能漲好好的照顧我們民生的這個價格穩定請說"},{"start":5380.73,"end":5394.284,"text":"經濟部好像是有宣布就是說不是好像啊連你都不知道什麼叫好像你是國防會主委掌控了所有的最重要的各部會的資訊你還笑得出來你今天這個這麼重要跟對於我們民生的"},{"start":5398.769,"end":5402.77,"text":"這個物價漲因為你統裝瓦斯漲我們小吃店要漲小吃店漲民生又全部一起漲那這怎麼辦呢你怎麼會連這個都不知道呢因為3月的話我們是不會漲的然後之後會再跟中友這邊來協調所以本期具體要求統裝瓦斯是牽涉到民生非常重要的關鍵絕對不能漲好不好"},{"start":5427.837,"end":5455.135,"text":"會來協調3月3月已經不會漲了但4月的話我們會7月下幾個月我們會看那個整個中東的那個軍事衝突的規模以及所以主委你身為我們國防會的主委我是很敬重你這樣子重大的政策跟民生的議題一定要清清楚楚一定要清清楚楚讓人民放心所以我再次具體要求這樣子的不可抗拒的因子存在的時候我們的統裝瓦斯一定不能漲好好的照顧民生對不對嗯"},{"start":5456.016,"end":5469.58,"text":"好 謝謝你的回答 這個點頭是對的那麼本席要請教 在我們能源方面卡達的供氣不確定性一直在增加那麼我們現在雖然有14個國家但是卡達的進口量還是佔了三分之一在剛剛你們所說的 你們有去調整但是我們看到我們的這個液化天然氣安全存量是大概12天"},{"start":5481.764,"end":5504.042,"text":"日本30天 韓國50天在這樣的情況之下 行政院推出我們可以短期的趕快去買增加美國的氣源的佔比但是照目前短期來說我們到底要怎麼樣能夠讓人民安心我相信能源的不足會"},{"start":5505.083,"end":5521.252,"text":"它的供應已經不穩定的如果成為常態性的話那對於整個產業對於整個國安以及對於整個經濟的內心它是影響非常的大所以身為國防會的主委本席要請教我們未來要怎麼"},{"start":5522.353,"end":5543.489,"text":"去應對剛剛本席所說的這個能有問題不能只有說我準備四月份要火力要開這個本席站在我台中的立場中火的部分我們依照既有的量數都已經有制度有規範也要照顧我們中部地區人民的這個健康這是本席非常的堅持請教"},{"start":5545.53,"end":5555.816,"text":"跟委員報告就是說經濟部已經啟動液化天然瓦斯他有三個措施一個是提前調貨然後在亞洲部分也在做調貨還有從市場買現貨三個階段來存"},{"start":5561.859,"end":5587.275,"text":"該做那個調度的作業那目前可以確保的是國內3月跟4月的天然液化天然瓦斯供應是沒有問題的那也會完成國際新的新約的簽訂那從6月起的話美國的那個進口的氣的那一個天然氣會這樣大幅提高那個比例那同時也掌握了很多傳奇的一些調度這樣子那在3月的話統裝瓦斯是不會漲的"},{"start":5589.089,"end":5611.581,"text":"所以這個能源的部分本席還是具體建議因為這個比照國安的議題非常的嚴肅的一個議題你只有說在3月份沒問題但是我們的安全存量是不是還是依照目前的只有12天因為日本30天韓國50天我們到底是什麼民眾不清楚我希望你把具體的"},{"start":5613.462,"end":5618.448,"text":"這個這個天數以及怎麼調配給社會大眾來了解也給本席一個書面資料最後我給你一個功課也就是我一直強調的我們的人口已經達到26個月負成長我也跟你前任的這個主委一直在討論這個議題跟你討論過"},{"start":5632.603,"end":5649.369,"text":"所以本席給你一個功課也就是在今年二月份的時候我們看到這個數字是破天荒的數字而且我們預估今年的出生率大概不到9萬人那在這樣的情況之下會影響到我們整個的生產力也一樣"},{"start":5649.909,"end":5675.68,"text":"比較國安的議題在做嚴肅的一個討論目前你們所做的生育養育這一些的政策在做但是我們看到的答案反而是越來越下降所以我本席具體建議請你去盤點目前你的這個方案已經不可行的時候你要怎麼樣去調整你的精進方案你把這個精進方案一個月內給本席好好的去"},{"start":5676.28,"end":5704.108,"text":"延逸 要不然你用了這麼多錢但是你的答案反而是預估今年是達不到9萬那這個是大家非常憂心的一件事情因為你要怎麼樣將人口的結構好好的去規劃那這個是本席具體要求一個月內將你們經濟的方案給本席好 謝謝好 非常謝謝楊瓊議員那請葉主委一個月之內提供要委員需要的資料好 請主委回座"},{"start":5705.936,"end":5721.041,"text":"好 下一位委員請振振前委員去諮詢你沒有拍攝好嗎謝主席我想請一下葉主委請葉主委"},{"start":5727.557,"end":5755.84,"text":"委員長主委好我先延續剛剛楊瓊英委員她關心的人口問題那因為人口問題確實是也是大家都非常關心的問題因為其實從最新的那個獲證資料來說的時候我們二月份真的是低到六千多人破七千非常的少那今年全年預計九萬可能都要很拚那我們看到了一個數字就是說整個的"},{"start":5757.079,"end":5774.087,"text":"那個政府從107年投入到整個人口少子化那個相關的一個計畫當中的時候花了很多的錢從107年到115年就是主委知道說整個成長了幾倍你知道嗎"},{"start":5774.929,"end":5780.752,"text":"你算那個金額嗎?對來我直接跟你講啦從107年的199億到了115年的1136億投入了整個少子化對策計畫當中那這個這幾年就增加了五倍的一個"},{"start":5793.638,"end":5820.693,"text":"那個經費可是我發現我們的人口成長還是不斷的往下修不斷的往下修那這個問題剛剛楊前議員也有問到那我特別關注的一件事情是我們在整個少子化少子化對策計畫當中的時候去年9月核定了2.0的版本主委知道這件事情嗎有 是OK那2.0的版本跟之前的100"},{"start":5823.75,"end":5848.711,"text":"107年到115年這過程當中這計畫當中原本有一個很重要的一個目標就是在119年的時候我們的人口生育率要到1.4這個數字不知道在2.0這版本當中有沒有改變有 我們有有改變是不是 改變到多少因為它現在的話是看它現在的實際上的環境因素"},{"start":5850.071,"end":5863.088,"text":"因為我們那個整個還在還在預估說那個整個生育率因為我們那個整個少子化的嚴重的程度比我們原本預估的還要更嚴重所以會再慢慢的再再再提供資料給給衛福部"},{"start":5865.251,"end":5885.593,"text":"所以說針對這個部分因為我看到114年9月核定的我國少子女化對策計畫2.0版本當中的時候把這個1.4這個生育率119年的生育率把它拿掉了我在想說是不是因為生育率的不斷的下修下修到連國發會都沒有辦法去預估到時候會有多慘"},{"start":5886.834,"end":5902.411,"text":"所以這個部分我希望能夠很快的把這個數字弄出來你沒有這個數字我們完全沒有辦法去去監督我們行政部門對於整個少金融化這個計畫到底執行的情況怎麼樣跟委員報告因為我們國發會每兩年會做一個"},{"start":5905.013,"end":5930.035,"text":"理解那今年剛好我們也會再做一次的人口支付那我這邊另外再提一個狀態因為針對這個掃增的話我們這幾年增加了五倍的預算可是出生率還是不斷往下修我提出一個概念因為現在西方世界他們有時候在提到UBI就是全民基本收入Universal Basic Income這個計畫當中的時候我想台灣還沒有做"},{"start":5931.075,"end":5956.907,"text":"可是我希望國發會去研究一下這個部分是不是適合在台灣去推動那我們希望說少者化問題完全變成國安的問題所以我們這部分國發會這邊一定要非常嚴正以待不能夠覺得說它自然就是這樣子我們就雙手一攤什麼事都沒有好不好那這個部分請國發會好好的加快那同樣一個月之內給本辦公室一個很完整的資料好"},{"start":5959.895,"end":5983.863,"text":"那麼接下來就提到因為我看到今天國防會的一個夜報當中的時候提到了很多產業的發展感覺欣欣向榮那去年的經濟表現確實也不錯可是很大一部分都壓在了半導體跟這是AI的部分那我從新竹來我對這部分感受非常的深刻因為在新竹說實話不會感覺到經濟不好可是很多地方大家可以很明顯的感覺到台灣的經濟發展是很"},{"start":5986.163,"end":6000.632,"text":"兩極的一個情況在走當台積電一家公司的市值可以佔整個台灣資本市場的43%到45%的時候你就會發現這當中有多麼的一個扭曲那我在想說當我們在講說就是算力就是國力的時候"},{"start":6001.232,"end":6021.1,"text":"那算力依賴電力所以我這邊我要特別請教一下朱主委就是按照我們就是那個天然氣失業法當中相關的一個法規的時候我們的安全的失業儲量大概是幾天"},{"start":6027.042,"end":6054.135,"text":"安全存量的天數大概是11天目前是11天這個數字沒有錯吧對 經濟部那邊那不是11天當中的時候那經濟部他也表示我們大概3月份的時候大概有11.9天4月份大概有11.5天可是5、6月因為中東戰事的狀態現在可能是不足的狀態那目前要怎麼去解決這當然是一個很大的一個問題可是我今天要特別問的是"},{"start":6054.995,"end":6083.988,"text":"因為我看到了在我們國發會當中的一個會議當中在去年11月20號第135次委員會記錄當中的時候直接講到了就是台灣的國內天然氣安全存量只有7到10天那我不知道這情況是國發會的數字是精準的表示台灣現在實際上面的安全存量只有7到10天所以是經濟部這邊的數字不一樣還是你們"},{"start":6085.745,"end":6111.974,"text":"統計的方式不一樣這個部分我再請那個同仁去查一下好 針對這個部分的時候你直接查因為那個我們很清楚從會議記錄當中看到這樣的資料請主委這邊查好資料之後再跟本辦公室做一個很清楚的交代另外就在同一次會議當中的時候也提到了因為我們在2022年當時提出來的一個就是"},{"start":6113.974,"end":6135.351,"text":"2050的近年碳排的一個執行的一個路徑當中的時候提到天然氣大概佔台灣整個發電量的50%那在這過程當中特別提到的一個光電的一個部分我們預計在2030年光電要達到30GW那麼到去年底我們統計數字是多少 主委知道嗎"},{"start":6136.232,"end":6149.057,"text":"好像是我們還沒有達到16萬所以我直接跟你講PTT上面都已經有寫大概是15.58GW大概一半左右那我們到2030年肯定"},{"start":6151.451,"end":6168.711,"text":"光電這個發電的量可能也會不夠於是在這次會議當中的時候國發會這邊有人提出來說對於目前農地只有40%可以用來做光電這個部分可能要鬆綁有確定這樣子嗎可不可以請主委做個回答"},{"start":6169.472,"end":6192.392,"text":"這個我再回去查一下那個會議記錄但目前來講農地鬆綁的話好像是還不是一個確定要執行的一個證據還沒有確定應該要鬆綁嘛對不對可是因為在那次會議當中他提到說農地沒有鬆綁的時候這個30GW在2030年當中的時候基本上目標是達不到的"},{"start":6193.714,"end":6212.259,"text":"所以我記得問的這幾個問題我發現主委都要回去再去多了解那沒有問題我們要解決問題尤其電力就是國力這件事情是不容忽略的一個事情當我們很多的一個經濟成長都壓在半導體跟AI的時候你沒有電力這事情是完全沒有辦法做的"},{"start":6213.26,"end":6228.355,"text":"當台電在告訴我們從苗栗以北的時候所有的那個送力中心完全不允許的時候我們就發現台灣的電力是非常的緊張的現在中東有戰事的時候那台灣這樣子的一個光是一個天然氣的安全儲量的時候經濟部跟"},{"start":6230.477,"end":6253.273,"text":"國發會講說的數字就都不一樣我們對於台灣的能源非常非常的擔心國發會這邊好好去統整一下然後競速給本辦公室一個很清楚的說明安全存量這個部分的話就是11天這個應該沒有任何意義可是因為你們的135次的會議紀錄很清楚提到他們的安全存量是7到10天我不知道是誰出錯"},{"start":6254.534,"end":6262.237,"text":"請主委這邊詳細跟本辦公室做說明好謝謝謝謝鄭政前委員請主委先回座下位質詢陳廷輝委員待會10點半要休息在主席質詢完之後我們休息7分鐘好下位質詢請陳廷輝委員"},{"start":6283.473,"end":6285.455,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請國發會主委國發會業主委委員好"},{"start":6293.269,"end":6315.716,"text":"主委我今天要跟你談兩個台南現在非常重要的一個交通建設一個就是我們捷運那我相信我們國發會就是know-how在整個關鍵的一個決定性雖然國發會現在都說尊重行政院的意見可是我是必要讓你知道我們現在整個我們的捷運的問題關鍵在哪裡"},{"start":6318.797,"end":6325.066,"text":"否則如果在討論的時候你們還是說我尊重行政院那行政院也不了解地方的狀態"},{"start":6326.653,"end":6351.848,"text":"然後整個案件是退來退去你知道嗎 這個案件退來退去是影響到我們的時間耶一條捷運藍線從賴清德院長的時候 核定了可行性評估到了現在今年10月才有可能要進行發包才有可能喔如果時間在延"},{"start":6353.208,"end":6378.707,"text":"有可能今年看不到喔沒有那個跟委員報告那個行政院在去年10月21號已經合訂沒有捷運藍線我現在跟你講的是捷運藍線已經都合訂都已經經過了8年你要聽我說8年我們第一條的捷運藍線今年在10月才有可能要進行發包才有可能喔"},{"start":6379.932,"end":6402.669,"text":"如果時間在拖 可能今年捷運那些也看不到可是你知道嗎 這才一段欸今天捷運如果沒有環狀 不要說環狀我們只期待半環狀 你沒有把環狀系統做出來它的運用就不會出來 它的功能性就不會出來 可是你知道"},{"start":6403.65,"end":6422.782,"text":"中央因為不了解地方所以都說哇你們要先從這個舊城區開始先推可是你知道嗎在整個藍線它的問題是我們必須整個串聯來那個主委你看一下我已經都為你畫好了我希望未來如果再討論到我們捷運的問題請你站在我們地方的立場"},{"start":6432.523,"end":6448.029,"text":"我跟妳報告捷運第一期攔線只有一小段喔可是一小段會有運量嗎不會櫻花連接永康東區的轉運站仁德的轉運站就這樣"},{"start":6450.711,"end":6463.507,"text":"他會有醞釀嗎 不會他必須在延伸所以藍線第一期的延伸線第一期那個藍線的延伸線重不重要 很重要他要接到高鐵"},{"start":6465.353,"end":6488.052,"text":"他要接到高鐵你把轉運站再接到高鐵這個運量會不會出來一定會出來而且這邊施工不會有很大的問題我們先要從施工方便而且不會造成地方很大的困擾這邊要先推動再來我再跟您報告深綠線深綠線也是連接當你"},{"start":6490.294,"end":6509.706,"text":"這個藍線延伸出來之後它的深綠線接到哪裡接到南科接到南科重不重要很重要我們知道高科技人才在很多地方從新竹從我們桃園從我們北部下來他做了高鐵"},{"start":6511.459,"end":6536.529,"text":"它直接可以做我們的捷運穿梭在南科還有我再跟您報告因為它還可以延伸到我們的南科四期就是我們沙崙綠能科學園區這個是我們現在在推的也是我們的南方大溪谷其中之一我們整個AI的運算中心都在這裡面"},{"start":6538.14,"end":6555.953,"text":"所以重不重要 這個整個產值就出來了 運量就出來了啊還有一條 叫紅線 紅線是要接高雄台南接高雄 未來可以延伸到哪裡延伸到我們的高雄機場捷運所以這整個半黃狀 你看 整個量能是不是出來了"},{"start":6563.223,"end":6591.248,"text":"哪有運鏈會不足哪有沒有經濟效益我不知道中央是怎麼考慮的可是你知道我們卡關多久了案子退來退去退來退去到目前還叫我們再修正好現在整個這幾條線包括省旅線包括藍線延伸線包括紅線目前都在地方政府依照我們中央所說的修正要修正"},{"start":6592.128,"end":6610.004,"text":"我很擔心在這修正上去不知道要給我們什麼樣的軟釘子吃可是你知道嗎一條藍線如果沒有這些配套的延伸半環狀它的整個機能跑不出來它的效能跑不出來"},{"start":6611.085,"end":6636.165,"text":"這些可行性評估都已經過囉我們議會都過囉已經過了好幾年囉現在在卡關好 我們還有綠線我們這個會期 議會的會期會通過這條綠線的可行性評估可是才是議會通過還要經由交通部這是在第二階段第一階段的部分 我們這幾條"},{"start":6638.561,"end":6668.221,"text":"都還在卡關所以我今天會用這個時間跟我們主委報告就是說我要讓你知道我們的地緣關係我們的地理環境尤其我們現在整個科技量能在放大台積電我們的護國神山所以從南科一南科二南科三再來到南科四起這個整個串聯我相信這個半環狀對我們太重要了"},{"start":6669.423,"end":6677.303,"text":"所以 主委我今天會用時間來跟你報告這個事情是希望你更了解我們地方的需要"},{"start":6678.596,"end":6707.624,"text":"可以嗎 就這個部分我們會協調交通部因為那個台南捷運紅線跟深綠線啊以及黃線這些都還在交通部那一邊沒有 那個藍線延伸線黃線還在做可行性評估我們是 藍線在國發會 藍線延伸線對在國發會 但其他的都在交通部 沒錯我們會協調交通部 沒錯所以主委我會跟你說這幾條串聯起來他的半環裝量能就出來了"},{"start":6708.544,"end":6727.594,"text":"是不是如果你沒有你光一條藍線你的量能在哪裡完全沒有啊你如果沒有藍線延伸線接到高鐵然後呢再一條深綠線接到我們的南科然後南科123就可以直接跟南科四起銜接然後未來"},{"start":6730.868,"end":6738.854,"text":"我們的捷運 我們的機場捷運高雄我們要留一個空間 對不對我這樣子串聯起來而且這裡目前我們的民眾的一個壓力沒那麼大所以我們如果不趕快動工當周邊的新市鎮在上來你很難動 你很難動"},{"start":6757.116,"end":6772.427,"text":"所以主委拜託幫我們盡快溝通現在大家都在踢皮球都在踢皮球但是都不了解地方所以拜託這個要趕快跟我們核定因為我們還要再送下一段"},{"start":6773.564,"end":6789.033,"text":"你這前面沒有完成你怎麼送下一段全部卡關拜託然後另外一個我講的就是說第二個就是我一直在爭取的螳鐵五分車狼帶的地方創生"},{"start":6790.932,"end":6816.204,"text":"這個是目前我已經爭取了我們的鐵大發展基金來支應補助經費我們整個掀起計畫的規劃那我們後面就是整個周邊我們的創生計畫目前台南市政府也已經送了整個計畫都修整了依照我們這一次我所提出的唐鐵五分車路線掀起計畫的這樣的一個脈絡"},{"start":6819.557,"end":6837.545,"text":"做串聯做連結不是各自做各自的好之前都是各自過各自的我覺得太浪費我們的預算了所以我們從這個114年10月27號開始一路走一路走走到今年"},{"start":6838.365,"end":6854.649,"text":"一路走走到今年終於看到一點點一點點一點點曙光也就是我們已經爭取了鐵道發展基金來支應整個掀起計畫所以後續包括所有已經送到我們國發會的整個所有的創生計畫"},{"start":6861.431,"end":6868.659,"text":"拜託我們要有一個平台跟各個單位去做推出的動作"},{"start":6869.724,"end":6891.533,"text":"否則如果沒有的話這個就一樣就是卡在那邊好 主委再拜託這個都是牽扯到我們西北地方的發展跟我們整個西南所有環狀區域的一個發展所以這個拜託 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝葉主委接下來有請邱昭偉質詢"},{"start":6905.34,"end":6932.67,"text":"謝謝主席 有請國安會葉主委好 請葉主委主委您辛苦了我想國安會主要的這個在政府裡面定位是要規劃協調國家的重大的政策規劃很重要 協調也很重要有些的重大的政策是牽涉到跨部會的我第一個問題要請教一下葉主委就是說運動產業"},{"start":6935.694,"end":6955.185,"text":"如果能夠發展得好 是一個很大的商機如果規劃不好 就變成說看球賽的也少 周邊的商機也少以日本的例子來看 日本的這個運動產業 過去二三十年發展非常好我想請問您 如果要推動運動產業的發展 這個屬於運動部的業務 還是屬於經濟部的業務"},{"start":6960.739,"end":6989.221,"text":"產業的話我認為應該是運動部跟經濟部要一起這個當然是跨部會的我查過日本日本是他們文部省下面有個運動廳加上他們的這個內閣裡面的這個經濟產業省METC共同去規劃政策去執行編列預算不可能單一這個由運動部或者由經濟部所以你看他們的職棒"},{"start":6990.523,"end":6999.905,"text":"幾乎每一場 他們有兩個聯盟 球隊那麼多每一場都是客滿 每一場都是滿場不只職棒 他們的職難也是如此"},{"start":7001.447,"end":7027.075,"text":"職業足球也是如此職業足球現在人數超過這個值棒所以這就是有政策在推動過去20年前台灣的這個男子足球水平跟日本是一樣的現在日本已經變成全世界這個前10名的這個非常重要的強隊那台灣還是100多名如果政府有政策支持"},{"start":7028.444,"end":7055.521,"text":"一個產業就會發展所以這個部分我是希望說國會站在一個協調規劃的一個角色能夠跟經濟部跟這個運動部結合起來看看怎麼樣讓台灣不用現在台灣有大巨蛋農藥可以4萬可是它們滿場的機率不大那當然比過去幾年進步很多了過去幾年大概不到1萬現在這個去年的數據大概就超過1萬但日本是4萬"},{"start":7058.098,"end":7085.239,"text":"美國也是如此所以我是期待說未來啊這個我也想說基金委員會是如果有機會去考察考察日本怎麼樣去推動運動產業的發展包括從大巨蛋的選址規劃這個也是國家重要的政策然後產業怎麼樣去透過減稅優惠然後讓更多的這個企業能夠投入這個"},{"start":7087.346,"end":7114.605,"text":"讓民眾能夠把它當作這個生活的一個部分這樣子運動產業能夠振興起來這個運動帶動國力所以這種我希望說是不是盡快由國安委去統和了那以下台日關係友好您私人身份可不可以去日本可以啊可以嘛當然你是這個政府重要的這個算是閣員也是日本相當於大臣"},{"start":7116.209,"end":7133.436,"text":"國發會定位你相對日本他們是哪一個大臣應該是經濟安保吧我的認知經濟安保是內閣府底下的特命擔當大臣經濟安保特命大臣還有金融特命金融大臣是屬於任務編組有時候奧運什麼奧運大臣"},{"start":7137.048,"end":7164.267,"text":"所以他現在就是大概是Akazawa是斥責大臣負責美日的這個關稅談判就是斥責但是他平常另外還有一個經濟產業省是斥責亮正我剛剛說的是小野田小野田紀美是目前高市首相非常重要的左右手所以高市首相任命他為內閣府的所謂經濟再生這個經濟產業大臣"},{"start":7167.506,"end":7172.186,"text":"所以這個部分我希望說如果我們台日關係那麼友好"},{"start":7173.975,"end":7199.317,"text":"這國防會也可以試著這個突破是不是跟他們的這個內閣府裡面的這個這個產業經濟產業這個再生大臣啊或者他們相關的這些主管或者是經濟產業省MVTC有一些業務的交流他們包括少子化的對策包括這個運動產業怎麼去振興啊他們都很完整這個幕僚的規劃"},{"start":7201.488,"end":7211.364,"text":"所以我覺得這個台日之間在官方特別是非安全部門經濟部門的這個這個事務階層或者官方階層的這個官員的這個協調啊"},{"start":7216.824,"end":7242.821,"text":"這個很重要 這個主委你會不會去規劃有有有 目前正在規劃怎麼樣來進行加深就是說日本的一些經濟政策尤其是經濟安保這一塊以及其他的一些 譬如說像委員講的一些運動產業的發展不是派一個經濟組的同仁收集資料我是說你要儲存還去對對對 會會會拜訪他們的 包括小野田 紀美這個大臣包括施責量證大臣會不會還"},{"start":7244.102,"end":7271.682,"text":"因為提出這個需求我想以現在高市所向對台灣的友好行政院54年第一次去到日本同樣我覺得有很多過去做不到的我們趁著這個台日關係最友好的時候能夠去突破也許你可以代團代經濟部代體育部有在規劃跟他們討論什麼樣各項政策少子化什麼樣都可以跟他們請教"},{"start":7273.272,"end":7299.054,"text":"好 謝謝委員另外這個大巨蛋就是說不要說大巨蛋我認為說這個AI時代應該是大製彈Smart Dong不是一個很傳統的蓋一個大型的室內的場館這個不要重複資源浪費要選擇一個最有力的場子不要每個縣市都去設要去協調協調你這種北 中 南"},{"start":7300.151,"end":7326.841,"text":"都有一個大型室內表演或是比賽場館也許因地制宜台北市大概有4萬可能南部就不需要那麼多南部可能就是2萬然後你要有捷運通過你要有產業的配合比方說我的選區就是鋼山橋頭是螺絲扣進的重鎮也有鋼鐵也有捷運高速公路也方便離機場也近"},{"start":7327.984,"end":7356.178,"text":"而且還有這個三級棒球的這個訓練基地這個我希望說未來可以結合其他國家經驗有好的交通環境有這個相關的這個後勤的安排後勤補給這個不要那麼大叫做Smart Don把AI導入用最經濟的這個生產的成本比如我們是鋼鐵扣件這些是我們在地的原料"},{"start":7357.443,"end":7379.108,"text":"人才也多土地又是台塘的所以這部分國發會應該要去協調而不是由各當各縣市自己去爭奪戰如果你誕生的不好那後面的維管問題很嚴重誕生的好啊帶動運動產業的發展我認為啊未來這個大型運動場館室內運動場館的這個開發建設這個要比照捷運"},{"start":7387.884,"end":7394.228,"text":"中央要支持 要審查通過之後給一些地方政府一些建議加上裁員補助這個主委您覺得呢"},{"start":7397.321,"end":7422.723,"text":"就這個部分來講的話我們會從我們自己國發會本身開始做因為我也在思考就是說我們中興新村裡面有很多運動場館但那個運動場館不見得是棒餃我們沒有提到中興新村我是提到我南部那一塊我知道我知道但就是說對於整個運動產業的規劃來講的話我們會開始先從我們自己我是召委我要以身作則因為時間到了那其他其他問題我日後再跟你請教好沒問題沒問題謝謝"},{"start":7424.69,"end":7428.451,"text":"好 謝謝召委 謝謝主委 現在我們依照前面的宣告休息7分鐘"},{"start":7463.525,"end":7483.907,"text":"他每次都很熱鬧我沒有學過報告我沒有,我才不講了他重點是女性是不是要跟人家交往我有最重要的經驗,就是不能太大聲,就算你見到人家大聲,不能講過為止台灣跟另外三個國家沒有正式幫助他那個五眼天王"},{"start":7484.809,"end":7485.53,"text":"你送幾個禮物?"},{"start":7503.263,"end":7503.784,"text":"講到小野泉"},{"start":7525.66,"end":7528.401,"text":"他也不一定跟我去啊,對不對?"},{"start":7551.425,"end":7557.768,"text":"有在回覆美國就是我們的反財美東跟美西,美東的話親歷了因為我們這次進行是教育部、國科部、衛生部"},{"start":7579.42,"end":7590.069,"text":"對,然後配合美國,美國是配合台灣,台灣是配合台灣現在到底是要找到哪一個特殊,也沒有什麼特殊的經驗"},{"start":7604.6,"end":7608.982,"text":"因為這一個從去年受訪到現在也沒有自打那個時候是大海賊賊賊賊賊賊賊"},{"start":7634.816,"end":7636.797,"text":"現在先吃後腦袋道因為"},{"start":7659.741,"end":7669.104,"text":"每日對每日對日還不一定每年也有可能跟在看一看反正我們現在希望就是經驗方式比較好經濟會長然後去美國看看"},{"start":7696.833,"end":7697.474,"text":"看中間的,我再繼續"},{"start":7726.23,"end":7743.134,"text":"你已經辦公室了好啦 你已經 我就簽了這個是原住民傳字條這個是願板和刑法這也是願板和刑法那這是衛福部有預計修改的文件然後這是民間有預示環境修改的文件好 謝謝謝謝威良 謝謝"},{"start":7765.267,"end":7768.456,"text":"喔 等一下 等一下"},{"start":7861.343,"end":7871.832,"text":"好 請這個列席的官員請回座好 現在繼續開會我們繼續質詢 下回質詢請鄭天才委員好 召委 請國安會主委請國安會議員主委"},{"start":7894.552,"end":7910.721,"text":"主委好 辛苦了今天在答詢的時候你有特別提到相關115年度中央政府總預算案尚未審查所造成的影響"},{"start":7912.217,"end":7925.593,"text":"在去年12月24號我國發會也在財政委員會做了一個報告這裡面提到近3000億的新興新增計畫將無法推動"},{"start":7929.454,"end":7957.546,"text":"事實上在預算法第54條對於總預算的審議如果不能依51條的期限來完成的時候各機關的執行可以依下列規定支出的部分就是新興資本支出及新增計畫可以依第88條規定辦理或經立法院同意者不在此限"},{"start":7958.621,"end":7987.717,"text":"所以這個部分事實上在預算法都有一個解套的解套的方式事實上在這麼長的時間這個國安會沒有去協調組織總署各部會把這些符合預算法第54條的這個相關的這些新增或是新興的資本支出體重道理法院"},{"start":7989.505,"end":8017.012,"text":"而立法院主動立法院主動提出這個提出這個一一算法五十四條提出這個先行動之所以這個部分國發會這個在說明的時候也把它講清楚了這個當然今天這個不是今天的議題了好我們看今天的這個國發會的報告"},{"start":8020.507,"end":8044.944,"text":"當前經濟情勢這個台美關稅的問題相關這些尤其是美國關稅政策都不確定到目前為止然後這個相關中東地區的衝突所以川普的關稅案被美國最高法院裁定違法"},{"start":8046.465,"end":8068.464,"text":"然後又祭出301條款台灣成為最大的受難者這個是相關媒體的報導然後密切中東你的報告裡面特別提到中東軍事衝突所以請教一下這個主委我們就先談這個"},{"start":8072.967,"end":8084.594,"text":"美國的關稅政策對我們的影響因為今天你的報告都沒有提到但是整個報告裡面都是說很好很好到底是怎麼樣總是要讓我們的"},{"start":8087.546,"end":8102.546,"text":"人民然後各個產業能夠了解跟委員報告就關稅這個部分的話跟我們有比較有關係是ART那一個部分ART那一個部分的話目前是美國最高法院宣告就是說這個部分是違憲的所以"},{"start":8104.228,"end":8127.968,"text":"這部分就是美國現在正在安排其他的一些法律工具所謂法律工具就是最近美國商務部推出來的301以及美國那個智慧財產局推出來337他們會用其他法律的工具去建構他之前跟其他國家所商議好的這些對等關稅所以他有用其他方式去"},{"start":8128.789,"end":8148.383,"text":"去滿足這樣的一個過程那另外一個就跟我們比較另外一個有關的就是MOU這部分MOU這部分跟那個美國最高法院的那一個判決是沒有關係的所以MOU這個部分來講的話我們還是保有所謂的232的最惠國待遇以及一些投資上面的一些雙向投資的這樣的一個協議這樣子"},{"start":8151.261,"end":8165.931,"text":"所以這個部分我們還是要密切的怎麼樣去了解然後怎麼樣去做最好的一個防範或是可能防範也很難了但是最起碼怎麼樣去"},{"start":8168.532,"end":8188.299,"text":"協助這個產業,協助人民,包括農民,農移民,協助過這樣的一個不確定的因素了那尤其是現在馬上已經面臨的,已經面臨的就是中東的軍事衝突"},{"start":8189.876,"end":8202.766,"text":"這樣的一個情形我們的相關的因為我們的這個油天然氣主要都是靠進口嘛目前的影響怎麼樣"},{"start":8204.042,"end":8221.833,"text":"目前的影響就是說經濟部目前已經對於3月跟4月的LNG的這些天然氣的一些調度的話目前都沒有問題那至於4月之後的話他會增加對美國的一些採購以及再從澳洲那邊去調一些天然氣進來"},{"start":8222.754,"end":8246.038,"text":"那就原油這部分來講因為原油我們的安全存量相對比較久一些但是還是一樣會開始去開發其他的一些多元的一些淨油的管道那對於我們國內的CPI的一些影響的話依照以前的一些研究啦就假如說國外是1%的話就是那個整個比如說油價上漲1%的話對我們國內物價的影響就整個天然氣來講的話"},{"start":8250.959,"end":8275.08,"text":"可能也是介於大概一到二之間 油跟氣都差不多那歸結的原因第一個就是說政府其實在我們國在我們國內政府常常會扮演所謂的動漲或是緩漲這樣的一個角色來評議評議所謂的一些物價這樣子那另外一個就是說我們國內對於能源的使用也慢慢的越來越有效率然後那個整個也相對的一些比較多元化這樣子"},{"start":8275.64,"end":8301.48,"text":"所以使得那個衝擊相對來講的話會比較減緩一些當然我們還是要持續關注說這樣的一個軍事衝突會持續多久那有一些國外的一些報告是在預估希望能夠像你所說的那麼的減緩希望但是因為我們不知道它的衝突是多久這個戰爭什麼時候會結束我們不知道"},{"start":8303.479,"end":8317.599,"text":"即使像這個赫姆茲海峽,只封兩個國的船隻,那我們的船隻,我們的運輸的這些天然氣的船隻敢不敢過啊?"},{"start":8319.393,"end":8343.453,"text":"不確定所以這個很大的風險所以我們還是要做最壞的打算怎麼樣去因應這個是我們所要面臨的最後這個國會的報告裡面特別提到開啟國家檔案館創新服務新里程這個很好要繼續的加強的做在這邊也要建議"},{"start":8344.912,"end":8351.408,"text":"那原住民族的部分也必須要去考量了因為原住民族的部分"},{"start":8352.95,"end":8375.503,"text":"也分散在各個不同的部門以過去台灣省政府來講除了早期的民政廳後來成立的原住民行政局那還有包括其他的譬如說教育來講就以前的教育廳像地政還有不同的一個部門當然很重要的過去"},{"start":8377.284,"end":8392.306,"text":"這個民意的中心是在省議會嘛所以省議會的那些省議員的質詢啊然後這個跟這個省政府之間的一個一個來往說明包括"},{"start":8393.027,"end":8418.946,"text":"後來包括中央的部分就早期是內政部內政部當然還有包括別的叫教育部都有關係所以這個部分也請能夠把它列一個專案處理好不好好 謝謝委員的提醒我們這個部分也正在整體當中對於原住民這個部分謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝曾建財委員一座先請回座好 下位諮詢請李玉玲委員"},{"start":8428.208,"end":8453.234,"text":"謝謝主席 請葉主委請國務卿 葉主委委員長主委最近我們台灣的經濟實力展現的非常的強勁而且有韌性但是我們看到所有社會的世界各國裡面大概都集中在AI晶片的需求"},{"start":8453.914,"end":8480.251,"text":"所以我们整个推升了半导体供应链的出口成长所以在2025年的时候我们国际对于我们国家的经济成长率的已经高达了8.68%在我们的人均国内的生产毛额这个部分的话也来到了37,830元的这个美元所以我们首度看到我们有超越了日本跟韩国尤其是我们主要"},{"start":8480.791,"end":8501.116,"text":"的這個成長都是集中在這個AI的部分那我們希望我們看到經濟成長的當下我們對於我們人口結構這部分我們也要關注但是少手化情形是越來越嚴重在我們2025年的經濟成長這麼高的情況下已經15年新高了但是我們看到我們的"},{"start":8502.996,"end":8526.564,"text":"這個少子化的情形 61個月都一直在下降出生率都低於這個死亡率所以請問一下國防會對這方面有沒有在檢視或者在評估就人口推估這個部分來講我們今年還會再做一次因為沒兩年我們會做人口的那個推估那因為上一次做推估的時候"},{"start":8528.308,"end":8544.814,"text":"那個估計值有點相對的比較樂觀一些啦所以造成那個差距有比較大那我們今年再做一次的話會相對的改善一些推估的一些方法然後讓那個整個少子化的關鍵問題在哪裡你知道嗎就是不婚不生嘛"},{"start":8546.103,"end":8566.792,"text":"年輕人不婚的原因第一個當然是不婚不生的原因造成不婚不生的原因第一個是職場有沒有友善以及經濟壓力還有就是說整個譬如說像價值觀的一些還沒有辦法很快的能夠轉變譬如說像男性"},{"start":8568.432,"end":8577.356,"text":"我們看到亮眼的成績都在AI跟半導體這樣台灣的勞動力八成都在這個製造業跟服務業所以這薪資停滯跟帶來整個我們工作環境的狀況所以看會推升了整個物價房價跟養育的成本這就是最關鍵的問題所以房價也是居高的問題所以你要怕養不起小孩所以不生不養的問題"},{"start":8594.403,"end":8620.127,"text":"才會造就出來所以現在你們的推估裡面就是說在2021年連續61個月出生率都低於這個死亡率在2025年你們這出生人口你們本來推估到12萬後來出生人口變成是10萬7812人很多的專家學者都說今年也許會跌破9萬人您的看法呢"},{"start":8621.451,"end":8639.142,"text":"是不是會跌破9萬我們看但我們盡量就是說從最壞的情境去假設這個人口的狀況你也說了你們之前的評估可能太過於樂觀那這樣子你們還是說會推估的這整個假設的情境跟統計的這個模型是不是已經過時了"},{"start":8640.023,"end":8644.991,"text":"我們這個部分會在這一次的時候做四檔修正會做四檔修正看看你們這個情境 假設的情境是不是太過於樂觀因為我一直在跟你強調房價 物價 養育成本這你要注意的 好不好"},{"start":8656.167,"end":8670.526,"text":"那所以說在你人口推估的報告裡面這50年的人口結構的變化裡面你們推估出來的結果是這樣子的話你們在整體的報告裡面今年的推估報告會再延後嗎"},{"start":8672.287,"end":8691.603,"text":"之前你們延後了那今年是兩年一次嗎?今年會再延後嗎?8月就會出來了好要如期出來那所有剛剛提到的重點你們也要好好的去檢視一番但這一邊也跟那個委員大概分享一下就是說其實我們在做推估的時候其實還有另外一個重點是我們大部分是看長期的"},{"start":8692.083,"end":8699.767,"text":"像這種短期的波動的話我們也會考慮進來但不會說是短期沒有改善長期也看不出來對這個會有一些因果關係是沒有錯的這個數據才會標準嘛你們當然是看50年的啦但是你這每兩年去推估的話才會事實改變你們評估的方向有錯的地方才會做修正嘛"},{"start":8713.154,"end":8726.961,"text":"另外一個就是說從長期的角趨勢去看的話比較能夠擬定比較合適的一些人口政策啦因為長期長期的趨勢假如說比較能夠掌握的話那人口政策的退估的話會比較能夠確實這樣子"},{"start":8728.382,"end":8745.419,"text":"是 所以本席也提醒你的最重要的關鍵問題所以你們的一定要把放進去做個評估的標準尤其是物價房價現在很多是房子你要選擇房子還選擇孩子這二選一耶已經到達這種程度了所以不昏不生"},{"start":8746.36,"end":8768.884,"text":"不養這情形會越來越加劇所以主委一定要看看你們整個設定的標準模式要符合現在社會整個環境的結構好不好好 謝謝委員那在接下來的話本席要請教主委的問題就是說現在我們國發會在近期公布的一月份的景氣燈號已經連續兩個月都是紅燈"},{"start":8772.485,"end":8783.469,"text":"我們出口是能夠呈現是穩健的成長但是我們國際局勢的話不確定的因子一直在增加當中那整個美國對於這高關稅的這個一直變來變去一下32%到20%到現在的"},{"start":8790.011,"end":8813.887,"text":"ART還沒有簽訂他就現在推一個122條款出來現在又有301條款這些情形我想請教主委你對於現在他們在122條款跟301的話你有什麼看法122條款跟301的話其實301其實是在補足就是說美國他們先前宣稱要去全世界科證的那個對等關稅那個稅率來"},{"start":8815.708,"end":8835.053,"text":"他就要去滿足這樣一個東西但對我們來講的話因為我們跟美國已經有達成一個協議所以其實我們至少達成什麼協議就台美的那一個ART跟MOU嘛至少我們跟美國當然還要再送國會啦送我們立法院啦但至少在談判上面來講的話"},{"start":8836.687,"end":8849.11,"text":"美國的那個貿易署也有說過就是說他們在實行這個301的調查的時候也會參照說有簽協議的這些國家的一些狀況這樣子所以其實某個程度來講的話我們至少在ART跟MOU這個部分來講的話我們拿到的兩個最惠國的待遇的話其實對於我們產業來講這個最惠國待遇還生效嗎"},{"start":8861.013,"end":8886.557,"text":"第一個就是說目前還在跟美方那一邊做協商所以還沒有簽訂嘛所以在美國高等法院這個判決之後對於之前的所有的談好的這些關稅都是無效的所以才有後面的現行的122條款的10加N122條款跟那個美國那個最高法院那個是不一樣我知道那就推翻之前的稅例要適用於122條款嘛"},{"start":8886.897,"end":8891.14,"text":"不過現在我們的稅率是4%加MFM所以現在又還有301你剛剛講的會對於我們這些東南亞國家16國裡面做一些調查因為就目前美國貿易署宣稱的那個301的話他有分兩部分"},{"start":8904.269,"end":8932.985,"text":"美國一波是要調查所謂的那一個過剩產能另外一個是強迫勞動那就強迫勞動這個部分來講其實我們在跟美國協商那一個MOU跟ART的時候其實就有談過了那美方對於我們目前的執行狀況也算是我們要去關心美國會去用這個301的話最重要是看說美國跟其他國家的這個貿易逆差的有沒有繼續擴大繼續擴大的話他可能就是有一些要保護他們政策所以"},{"start":8935.013,"end":8956.748,"text":"國發會你們相關的就是你們負責就是我所有資源的分配跟所有各部會的協調所以你要好好的去做個協調的工作讓我們的關稅能夠穩定讓產業能夠永續發展好不好好沒問題謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝李玉玲委員謝謝國會主委謝謝李委員時間掌握非常精準下一位質詢請謝一鋒委員"},{"start":8970.127,"end":8994.732,"text":"謝謝主席 我請國發會葉主委 請國發會葉主委委員長 葉主委早我想請問在這一次的關稅美國對等關稅不確定的影響之下你認為為什麼今年你們的評估又是逆勢上漲是因為又有搶單的效應嗎"},{"start":8995.694,"end":9012.207,"text":"第一個最主要的就就有我剛剛在業務報告上面說的就是說全球的那幾大的CSP廠其實對於資本支出來講的話又在增加原本預估只有6千那是不是因為在10%跟15%不確定的因素之下的搶單效應嗎"},{"start":9013.708,"end":9019.69,"text":"因為很大一部分是因為CSP廠商的資本支出是因為雲端供應商的資本支出增加但是我想要請問的過去"},{"start":9030.094,"end":9049.035,"text":"就是說國發會希望說國內的供應商都可以轉移就是說出口的基地那希望到歐洲到日本等等可是今年歐洲日本都因為這個對等關稅而造成他的經濟的上漲上行沒有利那這樣子會不會影響你們的佈局"},{"start":9050.872,"end":9067.755,"text":"這個部分來講的話目前整個廠商的佈局比較像是往美國那邊佈局現在還是都是往美國嘛對 整個AI的供應鏈的一些關係所以也沒有往其他地方也有啦只是說那一個部分跟美國來比的話相對的比較沒有那麼多這樣子"},{"start":9068.436,"end":9079.383,"text":"所以就是在變動的調整之下我們還是往美國佈局而沒有就是往全球其他地方佈局也是有啦只是說那個美國的比重比較大啦那如果未來301會不會對我們造成"},{"start":9083.021,"end":9107.714,"text":"嚴重的影響就目前來看的話301他關注的兩個議題就是生產過剩嘛另外是強迫勞動強迫勞動對我們來講的話目前看起來是相對的衝擊會比較沒那麼大那那個生產過剩的這個部分來講的話那可能會對於我們的貿易順差過多的話這個部分他們會有一些想法可是貿易順差過多的這個部分其實已經在ART在談判的時候其實已經有討論過"},{"start":9108.274,"end":9119.687,"text":"所以那個時候會跟美國簽的那一個協議是15不疊加可能也是因為這個部分的原因所以那一個整個貿易逆差過剩的這個部分就是我們對美國的貿易順差過多這個部分的話其實已經在談在簽訂那個ART的時候的話其實已經有談到"},{"start":9128.277,"end":9144.831,"text":"那這樣子會不會對於其他因為我們的半導體還是倡萬但是會不會對於其他的就是中小企業就是傳產這一塊喔或者是會有就是更不利的影響傳產這一塊的話就去年大概12月簽訂時候的話其實傳產對於15"},{"start":9148.334,"end":9175.286,"text":"十五不疊掉這部分的話其實他們是相當的相當的支持啦也就是說我們相對對於一些其他的一些競爭國譬如說像日本韓國的話我們其實跟他站在同一個起跑點雖然說我們長期以來跟其他國家簽NFT其實那個加速非常的少跟韓國沒有辦法比但整個產業在調整的過程當中的話只要說相對的優勢沒有差很多的話其實國內的廠商其實那個調適能力是非常強的"},{"start":9178.367,"end":9202.378,"text":"就食物不叠加的話其實是一直以來他們希望能夠達成的一個方向所以我只是想到那個台積電都可以去美國鳳凰城這樣子那麼嚴峻的那個地方那其實我們彰化也是你知道嗎我們彰化其實即便有一些地方是那個條件不是那麼好其實台積電也可以來投資嘛對不對"},{"start":9203.058,"end":9230.949,"text":"台積電有在台中但是不是要去彰化這個就看看國發會主委有沒有大力的那個支持是不是跟台積電聊聊可以但還是企業自主尤其現在國發會你們是單一的窗口在就是我們那個保險業要投入公共建設那你們在就是說認定什麼樣子的基礎建設適用於這樣子的"},{"start":9232.87,"end":9258.797,"text":"你們是單一串口嗎對我們會負責就是說廠商跟我們申請那有關他會歸屬在哪一類以及適用哪一個法規我們會跟相關的主管機關去討論我們不會只是收件送件不會不會我們會因為你們我剛才看到了你的業務報告裡面你就涉及了非常多的公共建設以及相關的就是說基礎的建設對不對那"},{"start":9260.738,"end":9269.502,"text":"我想要請問你,到底台灣裡面有多少的這樣子的公共建設以及基礎建設是適用於保險業可以來投資的物流,我們現在新增訂的是物流跟AI算的對,我是說有多少,就是說規模"},{"start":9282.143,"end":9309.764,"text":"規模對你們有沒有統計規模過去幾年來你這樣子規劃過去幾年來到底有沒有保險業投資國內公共建設以及基礎建設重要的亮點計畫那這也要變成說未來怎麼樣引導保險業資金投入國內的基礎建設以及公共建設那這因為又涉及到所有的"},{"start":9310.464,"end":9333.246,"text":"保護的權益的問題以及就是說在風險的係數上面那怎麼樣子設定那當然保險業希望說風險係數較低以及有致償率的這樣子的項目比較符合保險業來投入國內的基礎產業以及公共建設等這樣子的一個誘因嘛是不是"},{"start":9333.726,"end":9342.306,"text":"那我們也希望導入這些資金來到於我們國內的公共建設以及基礎建設的投資那這個部分你們怎麼規劃"},{"start":9343.584,"end":9367.303,"text":"我們目前會跟財政部商量就是說他那個整個基礎建設以及公共建設這個範疇可不可以再大一點然後讓一些譬如說像數位基礎建設有興趣做數位基礎建設的這一些廠商也能夠適用這些租稅的優惠這樣子那譬如說數位的數據中心對像譬如說像比較"},{"start":9369.478,"end":9390.504,"text":"對像算力中心的話已經公佈還有另外就是另外一個剛剛通過就是物流就物流業嘛對對對就是基礎建設這一塊所以就是未來物流以及算力中心等等還有就是下水道或者是污水處理這一塊再生水廠會嗎"},{"start":9392.314,"end":9417.916,"text":"這個我們再跟那個財政部那邊商量我們目前對也會嘗試的往這個部分去做規劃所以基本上只要是跟五大信貸產業還有AI新十大建設有關的一些產業然後只要他的現金流是一個穩定的話其實我們都可以考慮跟財政部來商量那未來有什麼亮點嗎"},{"start":9419.076,"end":9443.296,"text":"未來的亮點的話基本上就是說開放民間去設置我說已經過去就是這個計畫裡面有沒有亮點可以提供大家知道說怎麼樣子讓保險業能夠就是這些資金能夠導入我們就是不管是地方建設也好就是這些基礎的建設目前我們我們嘗試的在讓現在規模都不夠大對不對"},{"start":9444.076,"end":9471.98,"text":"我們現在目前有談一個大概500億的啦是不是規模都不夠大沒有辦法不方不方便透露啦就是說有一個大概有500億我覺得這個部分必須要再更加更多具體的案例以及怎麼樣子就是說引導這些保險業的資金能夠就是說投資國內的公共建設那這樣子對於不管是公部門也好私部門也好那這樣子我們"},{"start":9472.96,"end":9479.144,"text":"臺灣的經濟發展才有更好的成長 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝 謝一芬委員 業主委先請回座下一位委員我們請陳超明委員時間6加2主席首先有請我們國會 請國會業主委"},{"start":9507.875,"end":9520.709,"text":"首先有一個問題要請教你就是我們國內的財經雜誌對我們國內企業對於政府推動AI的一種進行調查那所有調查顯示來"},{"start":9522.951,"end":9544.409,"text":"業六成的企業都知道我們現在政府在推動AI政策但是大多數人對於政府推動AI的進度及方法及辦法並不是很熟悉這很重要的一個觀點所以有三成對於政策都沒有辦法感受到"},{"start":9545.39,"end":9571.318,"text":"那在AI硬體及軟體的方面九成的企業最關心的就是電力充值以後記得九成的企業在關心我們的電力是否有能充值的能夠使用那34%的業者認為AI人才不只是最大的挑戰其中傳統產業認為最嚴重"},{"start":9574.892,"end":9585.761,"text":"包括高科技業即使要拖日的話成本非常高以資料都尚未系統化問題都存在在這邊那我現在第一個問題請教你"},{"start":9587.577,"end":9604.263,"text":"伊朗、美國、以色列與中方是戰爭在來的這個低延政治很厲害現在原油或是天然氣的都是大漲那我們一般的資料說中油只能儲存14天"},{"start":9606.124,"end":9621.391,"text":"那像現在這樣的狀況你們只有去應對只有高價去跟人家調度我們的天然氣我相信有應該我們存量過但是天然氣的存量不夠你有沒有什麼應對的措施"},{"start":9622.631,"end":9634.101,"text":"會不會到時候變成斷氣啊?不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會不會"},{"start":9639.165,"end":9646.756,"text":"五月六月也不會 因為常常的都一直在做調度大家都很擔心啦 心驚膽跳的你不能夠要人空子是天然氣發揮掉的 你不能廣元工會要實施"},{"start":9654.847,"end":9675.598,"text":"不會啦 不會啦 因為經濟部都已經在協調中然後我想到一個問題你現在推動AI的轉型是全民共識但是你們宣導的力道非常的弱我看到你們在報章雜誌都在寫你們的政績偶要怎麼做沒有幾個 我會看啦"},{"start":9676.398,"end":9700.117,"text":"我一定要看這跟委員報告我們那個AI新十大建設在1月的時候經過行政院核定之後的話我們3月底我們4月初會出一支影片尤其那些什麼電視台啦名嘴在講話叫他們做一件功德你去買時間叫人家說AI對台灣的未來發展有重要沒重要大家去聽不然你只有這樣"},{"start":9701.338,"end":9725.906,"text":"我講做工的,不然有些都是胡言亂語啦是是是這說得對,回補台灣一下把AI當成全面的共識,台灣要推動這樣的計畫台灣才能轉型,容易站在有利的競爭地位好不好我們會加強廣宣啦,只是說也要請委員支持因為我們有一些廣宣的費用一直沒有辦法通過你的任務理念,除了五大的信賴產業"},{"start":9727.646,"end":9753.903,"text":"你最重要就是推動AI新十大建設你也到韓國考察認為AI對於國立理想的關鍵性在於應用能夠落地這個最重要這個會應用落地非常重要我之前有跟你們說過目前的分工軟體的話在市委部白宮白鋭在你們經濟部"},{"start":9756.741,"end":9777.982,"text":"在那個經濟部啊 你是國外的主導單位啦 我會說這裡面有偏差我覺得事務部啊 你給他專門去做打砂的軟體如何去防 如何各種能查清得到因為所謂AI的產業裡面 落地的時候要跟實際在配合"},{"start":9778.903,"end":9782.107,"text":"你這裡有特別說到產業AI化AI產業化你說有智慧應用還有關鍵機制還有智慧機盤我帶你這個車要賣這麼多"},{"start":9794.85,"end":9807.367,"text":"所以你說AI要產業落地的話現在作為我們堅實的後盾裡面培育新世代人才培育實力產業實作人才招攬專業的人才"},{"start":9811.468,"end":9824.421,"text":"那關鍵技術你要曉得很重要這裡面一定要去突破不然我們機器人沒有用一個頭腦MVD還是MRE他們都在發明這個我們台灣要做有困難"},{"start":9827.839,"end":9850.293,"text":"關鍵的技術在哪裡?就是眼睛跟頭腦跟手腳,這要像人的靈魂,技術是太重要所以我們用機器人,這很重要,不然你要用金工、造物、產業的在使用,這個技術一定要來推動當然人才很重要,技術要靠人才"},{"start":9851.434,"end":9857.439,"text":"所以在這,我一直告訴你們要實際的推展尤其百工百業在用"},{"start":9858.444,"end":9883.393,"text":"有 經濟部都有在做啦 經濟部推了很多硬體台灣大概很強 要來追有困難但是在軟體的應用裡面真的要加強有有有 經濟部都有在推AI市產線不是啦 我講的是司衛部來的你那個軟體我講啦沒有就地 我現在再跟你講一下 我了解AI懂AI的人不一定懂得技術 記得這句話"},{"start":9885.154,"end":9899.236,"text":"懂AI的人不一定懂得技術你只懂AI你不懂得產業的技術的我們AI推動的人不是你所以這個要突破另外有一點非常重要"},{"start":9900.217,"end":9918.368,"text":"懂AI也懂得產業機制的人他擔心他個人公司的競爭力怕技術外領能逃倉博所謂AI的落地應用你真的要想出一套好的辦法去解這個是實地在推展目前所遭遇的困難"},{"start":9920.409,"end":9948.368,"text":"這個我會跟那個訴訟部協調我看你是在做事情啦,我很相信你再來我一個問題,我一直跟你講陶瓷廟大溪谷計畫,我們質量科學研究第二期你們當然是審核計畫的人但是我常常叫你出來跟我協調質量科學研究第二期大溪谷計畫國科會不敢當主管機關,他怕說要拖地"},{"start":9949.589,"end":9972.244,"text":"這個國科會沒有擔當 只有給學士機構那些國科會我實在不放心因為為什麼 他們已經成立習慣在南部的開發都是用公有地台場的土地但是在北部沒有北部沒有我們要產生一個方法 方式來解決"},{"start":9973.783,"end":9991.353,"text":"我幫你擺脫整個變了 你都這樣不回應我看你是實在是做事的人不像做官的人我只想說你做官應該也要想做事情啊有啦 我有在做事情我現在都沒有去啊我跟你說 我自己要求兩件"},{"start":9997.196,"end":10019.697,"text":"如果可以的話,我們不要國科會當主管機關,我們由經濟部當主管,你給我們報到行政院,我們就先來開花。委員,這不是我國法委員當過行政院。不是,我不是這樣說,你協調的單位這樣就沒人要做事了嘛。三個人,靠水沒水好啊。"},{"start":10020.595,"end":10036.54,"text":"我只拜託你一項,你應該替我們去爭取,跟行政院說,說引渡就有這個困難,國科會不會極端爭說,也沒有那樣的人才,也沒有那樣的人力,乖乖的不會地方的協調,"},{"start":10037.64,"end":10062.34,"text":"因為那是屬於 國科衛單位主管機關授權給苗栗政府開發他要30公頃50公頃的肉地 我們給他 談好價格給他這樣不跟事情會突破 不能說那裡還沒用 這裡還沒用要做多少人做什麼事情就是要突破困境 解決問題 才是做官的能手"},{"start":10063.1,"end":10089.663,"text":"才是真正能替百姓服務 我只拜託這兩項我會持續追蹤 要不然我開始幹掉啊你這個政府無能 這樣出了這個問題沒辦法讓人改觀我跟你講我還要問一下市長這要喊國科會你喊到國科會 國科會的態度很明顯嘛為什麼那麼怕 您不覺得別人可以做啊國科會我沒有辦法督導他啦怎麼沒有辦法 這個政府沒有辦法"},{"start":10091.55,"end":10100.831,"text":"我感覺這樣政府是無能的應該可以去協調怎麼講沒有辦法我們在法國安教我們也是要去一再加油三的協調"},{"start":10102.724,"end":10130.296,"text":"你這個人想要來做某些什麼事情我本來對你期望很高,今天我要繼續執行但是我們的趙薇站起來了你看,今天穿著西裝黑衣,臉在微笑叫我要下執行台,下次站久一點啦好謝謝謝謝我們陳昌平委員精彩的諮詢請主委先回座謝謝陳昌平委員"},{"start":10132.156,"end":10143.693,"text":"下一位執行員請張家俊委員主席我想請葉主委請國會葉主委"},{"start":10152.618,"end":10166.022,"text":"好久沒有在質詢台上碰面了那今天呢我想要跟主委討論的話題是有關於少子化的這個危機那根據統計呢台灣今年二月的新生兒數量僅有6523人創下"},{"start":10170.843,"end":10196.48,"text":"3月歷史新低紀錄與去年的同期相比更是呈現了雪崩式的衰退衰退了37.32%少了3884人回顧去年2025年全年的新生兒還有10.7萬人但是目前的這個崩跌態勢來看今年的新生兒總數恐"},{"start":10198.001,"end":10215.195,"text":"跌破10萬大關喔我想這不是危言聳聽喔可能是目前的保守估計那我想請問主委您認為今年台灣還守得住10萬新生兒的這個防線嗎我們努力鼓勵大家多多生育"},{"start":10217.079,"end":10246.339,"text":"我現在今天就要問你 你的努力在哪裡你的實際的政策在哪裡我先繼續講一點事實上我認為國發會的這個人口推估一直過於樂觀我翻出2020年國發會發布的人口報告當時推估要到2054年新生兒才會跌破10萬結果現在的狀況就有可能在今年跌破整整"},{"start":10247.199,"end":10266.83,"text":"提早了28年耶 整整提早了28年當然這不是你任內做的模型 也不是你任內做的報告但是呢 我相信這是一個嚴重的脫節那民眾怎麼能夠相信說現在政府推出的少子化對策真的能夠對症下藥呢尤其我們從2018年到現在這個成立的少子化辦公室"},{"start":10276.235,"end":10289.983,"text":"到現在你知道花了多少錢了嗎?剛剛真正前委員有大概看了一下多少錢?1000多萬吧1000多萬跟1000多億你知道差多少嗎?我算了總共編列了高達5931億委員你那是累計的吧?當然是累計的啊"},{"start":10302.56,"end":10305.882,"text":"5931億就算是累計也很高啦 8年欸是多少錢欸結果你這些錢花下去了不但沒有成效還產生崩跌的效應那國發會有沒有思考一下說你現在是哪裡沒有落實還是你的正確方向不正確才導致"},{"start":10328.667,"end":10347.881,"text":"這樣子的結果呢因為就是台灣面對到很嚴重的不婚不生這個問題那我在中研院的同事也有做研究就是說目前我們的補助這樣的一個效果對於是不是能夠引導40的婦女去生育這樣的效果看起來好像沒有那麼的強"},{"start":10349.082,"end":10368.817,"text":"所以變成就是說我們可能要另外一個思考就是說我們的目前在推的一些政策可能有一些部分要做一些滾動式的檢討所以在少子女化對策計畫2.0這部分的話是希望從養育養育住子啊就養育養育住子這五大方向來"},{"start":10372.279,"end":10397.056,"text":"看可不可以讓我們上市應該是說 主委 我跟你建議這個可能會是你主委任內最能夠做出成績的一件事情而且最能夠影響台灣的一件事情因為人力及國力啊我們人口一直減少這是一個國安危機而且這是你最能夠凸顯出你在主委任內最能夠有的作為你要想喔 2018年我們的出生人口還有18.1萬"},{"start":10402.499,"end":10407.325,"text":"到了2025年我們幾乎腰斬只剩下10.7萬而且在這當中我們是砸了5931億想解決少子女化的問題結果花了這麼多錢然後投入了這麼多資源"},{"start":10421.892,"end":10438.42,"text":"沒有半點幫助之外還腰斬了這真的是一個值得我們去省思的問題那我舉一個例子好了舉韓國的例子過去呢韓國是我們少子女化的難兄難弟我們差不多是同樣的狀況"},{"start":10439.941,"end":10455.99,"text":"但是他們2023年生育率那時候是低谷全球最低在0.72但是在2024年他們為了因應這個危機成立了人口戰略企劃部結果他馬上有成效"},{"start":10457.631,"end":10483.502,"text":"韓國的生育率已經連續兩年止跌回升2025年他們的生育率已經重新重返0.8新生兒人數呈現正成長還創下他們四年來的新高那主委你有研究過為什麼韓國可以而且他們是短短兩年內就開始逆轉成功這個是不是值得我們借鏡呢"},{"start":10484.122,"end":10502.924,"text":"這個部分我們會參考一下南韓以及新加坡的一些資料然後我們看說有沒有什麼地方可以進進不過跟委員報告一下就是說這個部分我們也會去跟那個陳時中政委那邊以及衛福部那邊做協調啦但這不是我們國防會督導的這個部分"},{"start":10502.944,"end":10509.17,"text":"我知道,但是你要建議啊,否則你國花費怎麼都不歸你管你根本就是不是一省心啊我們會去參考一些南韓國家發展都歸你管啊我們人都沒了,還管什麼南韓跟新加坡的一些成功的一些方法然後我們來做一些市場建議我現在就告訴你關鍵在於哪裡關鍵在於政府有沒有覺得這是一個嚴重的事情有啊,當然有"},{"start":10528.348,"end":10552.827,"text":"政府有沒有決心說這件事情是我們國家要面對的嚴峻的困難我想韓國跟我們最大的不一樣就在於韓國他除了發放津貼還有各項的福利政策之外他們更勇於去規定企業要接入育嬰福利而且大幅提升男性育嬰價的比例"},{"start":10553.988,"end":10558.589,"text":"韓國是政府帶頭聯手企業多管齊下在催生那反觀我們我們就是停留在撒幣發錢的這個傳統思想就不敢用國家的公權力去調整整個生養的環境就是男性申請育嬰的那一個比例有很大的一個進步是 但是我的意思是說你決心要拿出來啊"},{"start":10581.954,"end":10608.256,"text":"整個生養的環境是要政府帶頭去聯動企業把它帶起來否則你知道女性求職她一知道你懷孕了你可能就是下一個要被砍掉的人就是你了對就是這一個這個就是一個文化的問題嘛我們的企業不知道說要去保護我們的下一代甚至這些都是我們珍貴的國家資源嘛所以呢我真希望說"},{"start":10610.037,"end":10614.238,"text":"主委能夠真的大刀闊斧拿出決心韓國可以力挽狂瀾我們怎麼可能不能而且我們不是沒錢我們這短短幾年投了5900多億你知道5900多億可以做多少事情我們投了這麼多錢還一直崩跌可見現在投的錢是"},{"start":10637.053,"end":10653.218,"text":"就已經投到水裡去了所以我希望這個政府展現決心把政策力道完全的把它展現出來用國安層級的高度來面對少子女化的這個問題好不好好好謝謝 謝謝謝謝張家俊委員主委先回座校會諮詢請賴世保委員"},{"start":10672.639,"end":10678.302,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請國會會的主委 葉主委委員長主委長我先請教啦就是你到現在為止還認為我們今年的GDP可以到7.7嗎"},{"start":10694.929,"end":10695.55,"text":"我 樂觀樂觀?"},{"start":10695.55,"end":10709.347,"text":"嗯啊 優佳不會影響嗎?優佳已經漲了25%囉 有人講30%囉優佳要看說他 呃 看那個中東這邊的軍事衝突是啊 看起來短時間是打不完的"},{"start":10710.288,"end":10721.957,"text":"有國外的研究機構有指出說可能會在四周左右但這個是一個現在不管幾周現在已經破百了短期的話我希望剛才主計長還說只要油價漲10%"},{"start":10728.502,"end":10743.394,"text":"GDP就減少0.12那主計長給我們的公司就減少0.12現在已經漲了25%了現在已經漲了25%了所以就是等於要減0.3但是因為我們國內都有一些緩漲跟動漲的機制所以其實那個效果可能沒有那麼的嚴重像主計長這樣10%0.12這樣子"},{"start":10757.646,"end":10774.805,"text":"你打臉主機長喔沒有 也不是打臉打臉主機長 主機長他就說那個那個比較的情境可能所以你會認為不管川普那邊怎麼打阿美尼奧是怎麼打那麼這個7.77.7絕對是鐵的一定有"},{"start":10778.91,"end":10794.364,"text":"那個也要考慮啊我這邊只是在進一步的說明就是說組長講的那個情境跟我們現在目前國內的情境可能有一些差異性這邊跟委員分他講的就是國際油價國內不管有沒有環長基本上來講是有影響的"},{"start":10800.45,"end":10819.446,"text":"不會沒有影響會有影響對但只是說那個影響是不是到0.1210%會影響到0.12這個部分我們再細部的再來看所以你還是樂觀估算我們今年一定有7.7以上是不是假如這個軍事衝突在一定的時間之內解決的話一定時間是多長4個禮拜"},{"start":10821.75,"end":10826.993,"text":"這個我很難 但是國外的那一個報告是有講說應該最多機率 機率比較大應該是有些分析師已經講說美國已經進入新型的大蕭條這句話你同意嗎好幾篇的分析都這樣子你同意嗎我覺得"},{"start":10846.104,"end":10873.163,"text":"每一個預測機構都有不一樣的假設啦沒有你同意不同意嘛他講他們美國人是經濟冷暖不均跟我們一模一樣我們越靠一支股票在台積電啦股票漲跌就是看它沒有啦就台積電這個部分來講跟我委員分享就是說台積電應該今年還是一樣還是繼續漲啦還是會不錯啦還是會不錯啦你意思是什麼來回到我今天真的要問的就是主權基金現在進度怎麼樣"},{"start":10874.62,"end":10885.567,"text":"這個部分的話就是說你們負責要評估的啊是你們啊我們這負責評估是沒有的報告出來沒有現在還在就是就國外的一些執行的狀況什麼時候可以出來"},{"start":10886.861,"end":10910.306,"text":"這個可能要院這邊做沒有你啊 什麼國發會啊 你要先出來才有現在就是各個相關的那個部會會員收集資料所以你什麼時候可以來端落什麼時候我只能就國發會這邊說法我沒有辦法代表其他的部會但我們這一邊其實有你是主管"},{"start":10910.966,"end":10935.474,"text":"評估的單位啊所以我國防會這一邊要給我一個時間表 現在已經很久了從去年到現在已經去年到現在已經三四四五個月了我們國防會這一邊其實有做一些國外案例的一些比較你告訴我 總是來這裡講一點話嘛你來來來 你跟我講現在是positive還是negativepositive還是negative 回答我"},{"start":10938.55,"end":10958.647,"text":"委員所謂的positive negative就是請教要涉還是說不要涉positive就是要涉negative就是不要涉主權基金要涉應該是一個比較一個政策的一個方向因為其他國家都在涉了像南韓的話今年又退了兩步沒有其他國家啦因為很多國家沒有涉了啊"},{"start":10959.808,"end":10978.725,"text":"大部分很多國家大概有60幾個國家全球195個國家有設的幾十個像30幾個一樣像中國它也有設以色列也有設韓國也有設那新加坡設的也有設美國就沒有了有美國他們有要推也有設現在為止沒有因為沒有辦法補貪大家都想說我多賺錢問題要有料理"},{"start":10987.141,"end":10997.662,"text":"所以我問你請教你外匯的使用是要有償還是無償這部分還在評估啦要不要立特別法"},{"start":10999.861,"end":11005.226,"text":"我們這邊會建議用好強烈的反對無償的使用外匯這個請你記清楚謝謝謝謝賴市長委員主委先回座下位之言請蔡議員"},{"start":11051.308,"end":11052.931,"text":"謝謝主席那我們是不是邀請國安會主委"},{"start":11062.872,"end":11073.582,"text":"主委那昨天我們嘉義舉辦這次的台灣燈會那這個台灣燈會在昨天完成閉幕那這次的台灣燈會是給嘉義"},{"start":11077.818,"end":11091.528,"text":"讓嘉義的知名度大大的提高很多人都來這個燈會看到很多不一樣的一些燈會的一個演出那我特別要提啦在3月3號的時候那有這個燈會的這個煙火"},{"start":11094.73,"end":11110.623,"text":"這個燈會的煙火事實上在我們去年東石海之下的時候一樣是有放這樣的海上煙火所以這個煙火的廠商就來自於我們自己在地布袋東石"},{"start":11111.583,"end":11137.039,"text":"那這個廠商事實上這段時間都沒有去溝通一些比較本質的一個問題就是說國內事實上在做高空煙火的廠商已經不多了大概國內剩三家其中兩家都在嘉義一家在嘉義的海區就是東石一家在嘉義的山區在大嶺這裡是製造商他們同樣都面對一個很大的問題就是說"},{"start":11137.839,"end":11152.065,"text":"我們針對高空煙火高空煙火這個是強調專業的他要炮到這麼高的空中他那個技術面的門檻非常高他跟傳統的炮竹工廠是不一樣的"},{"start":11152.865,"end":11172.501,"text":"但是我們卻沒有針對高空煙火把它跟傳統的炮竹工廠把它做一個區隔那直接很直白的就直接定義這一些高空煙火就是說這樣的煙火產商他們沒有辦法來申請燃燃的移工意思就是移工沒辦法請外勞來幫他們做這些工作"},{"start":11176.684,"end":11182.536,"text":"那以主委您的判斷現在台灣要來從事這些煙火的製造"},{"start":11183.496,"end":11212.017,"text":"我們可能大概家長也不太希望我們的子弟去這個從事這個危險性相對比較高的所以意願低那意願低他們就請不上人那明明我們國家有這麼高技術這麼好的國內的一個煙火製造製造的一個廠商他們甚至在疫情的期間我還幫他們協調讓他們的這個煙火可以順利出火出火到美國的迪士尼"},{"start":11212.978,"end":11230.57,"text":"美國的迪士尼都是用我們自己自己當場的宴會捏那明明是國內之光結果我們卻把它在定義上沒有一個清楚的定義讓他們到現在跟他要請人就很困難捏我覺得正好在燈會的結束那也事實上凸顯這個問題而且我這個問題我是在"},{"start":11233.792,"end":11250.517,"text":"三年前開協調會那你們跟我說會來檢討檢討這件事就這樣拖拖拖拖了三年過去了到了今年的二月好像經濟部才終於把這個案提到勞動部"},{"start":11255.988,"end":11269.138,"text":"三月底他們會討論三月底才會討論三月底快到了那我可以期待了嗎意思說我現在可以期待了經濟部已經提案了勞動部三月底他會討論討論最後的結果怎樣的話當然討論結果不知道啦"},{"start":11273.922,"end":11301.897,"text":"但是我要講到就是說我們對於產業的需求讓我們政府的動作太慢你看光是這樣我從三年前東石開始在推這個煙火的故鄉這樣的一個概念的時候我就不斷的說基本上這種高空煙火不要把它視為傳統的炮竹工廠他們是需要有移工的一個需求的結果這樣一講講了三年我覺得這真的是效率上是值得再檢討的這樣好不好好"},{"start":11303.978,"end":11324.355,"text":"第二個事實上我要跟葉主委這邊來討論我們中埔這邊事實上有多份的研究報告都已經表示說事實上中埔這個地方這個中埔的中輪這個地方事實上它是有地熱的潛力"},{"start":11325.589,"end":11336.744,"text":"它就像管那樣啦它就像管那樣地下是同賣的所以這裡有非常好地熱的一個潛力那既然有這個地熱的潛力咧我們事實上這個"},{"start":11338.533,"end":11354.591,"text":"中油啦中油在去年114年的11月11號他也做了一個高溫地下水層的一個評估報告針對中浦鄉竹頭旗段400之一號這差不多就是中波的分水過稀就比較進去那樣這樣的一個評估報告他認為說基本上"},{"start":11360.217,"end":11388.078,"text":"你只要把它開挖你把它開挖到了大概600公尺它的底層溫度就有到43度但是如果你有辦法把它開挖到了1225公尺到1450公尺它的底層溫度就可以到達70度那過去還有一份專家的一個學者的一個地質報告他認為中輪溫泉這裡如果你把它開挖到了3公里以上可以到150度"},{"start":11389.799,"end":11413.724,"text":"所以這裡很明顯是一個很充沛的一個地熱的一個區域那國發會一直長久以來對這個地方沒有關注到大家都在講能源的一個新進能源的開發的時候卻沒有去講到這一塊我目前拿的這兩份報告咧他們的評估並不是在做地熱並不是在做地熱的研究他們是在做溫泉"},{"start":11415.305,"end":11432.685,"text":"溫泉的研究 因為我們知道現在關子營的溫泉事實上也可能需要一些新的鑽探的一個點人家就在那邊看說 唉唷 中部 差不多就在中輪這裡這裡的水也夠 地底下的溫度也夠 所以這個地方適合開發溫泉"},{"start":11434.887,"end":11448.04,"text":"但是我覺得這樣的話野心是不夠的啊如果他可以再往下再深挖一點溫度會提高到了100度以上甚至到150度的話那為什麼我們不朝向這裡來做地熱的一個開發呢"},{"start":11451.103,"end":11472.871,"text":"來有請主委這個部分我們再跟那個經濟部那一邊去商量一下因為加入委員的委員那個資料是不是可以分享給我們可以啊可以啊因為這個是第一個是中友的採購事業部另外一份是過去一個專家學者的研究意見我再跟那個工部長這一邊反映一下"},{"start":11473.551,"end":11498.344,"text":"我覺得說台灣正好在我們嘉義中輪這個區段有這麼好的一個天然的一個地熱的一個優勢我覺得我們主委這部分可以好好來然後最後再問一個就是說因為我們知道說現在面對整個世界半導體整個AI的趨勢那揮打領軍的現在對於AI的需求越來越大"},{"start":11499.685,"end":11520.604,"text":"台灣我們所扮演的就是由台積電他們所提供的一個晶片甚至這個晶片經過先進的封裝就是揮打他們現在一定最需要的一個晶片那我們現在國家也宣示了我們將投入所謂矽光紙的一個國家隊那我想要請教主委"},{"start":11522.145,"end":11537.077,"text":"那種預算新興計畫是延宕的那我們這個矽光子的國家對的推動會出現怎樣的障礙可不可以主委您稍微分析一下公聽怎麼看待這件事啊就假如說預算沒有辦法順利的話那對於我們"},{"start":11537.757,"end":11564.924,"text":"整個在人才啦以及整個的那個時程的部件上面來講的話會有蠻嚴重的一個延宕啦那甚至就是說在這個矽光子這個部分來講的話我們是希望就是說矽光子這個技術能夠在繼續的精進那雖然說我們目前在矽光子以及矽光子的封裝這個部分來講的話我們的技術算是全世界獨有的那我們也希望說在這個部分"},{"start":11567.745,"end":11582.71,"text":"可是他就是在台積電啦可是我們知道說你台積電他需要人才啊他需要這些人這些人就是要我們現在說的四方子國家隊把他整個從人才練到研究產官學研這整塊要起來這是要經費研的"},{"start":11586.411,"end":11613.469,"text":"那這樣的話就是說 我覺得主委我們既然這段會出總綱應該你們就要講給社會聽 要講大聲一點這件事就太嚴重了世界的趨勢 整個AI的一個浪潮不可擋的情況之下我們既然就因為鍾以神讓我們的新興計畫沒辦法來執行哇 這個真的是很誇張了今年已經三月了已經過四分之一了鍾以神都還沒出來這真的很慘"},{"start":11615.85,"end":11644.69,"text":"主委辛苦了 謝謝委員謝謝蔡議員令人感動的資訊主委先回座下位 柯平財柯平財不在 下位請張雅琳委員謝謝主席 我們有請那個主委跟檔案局局長柏惠葉主委檔案局局長"},{"start":11656.203,"end":11675.212,"text":"主委今天想跟主委請教就是關於促轉基金的議題我想主委這邊應該知道說我們的民間禁用平台已經上線了那其實從我自己2024年進來的第一個會期就開始一直關注這件事情那也非常感謝就是在國防會的主委國防會還有我們檔案局的努力之下"},{"start":11675.652,"end":11698.678,"text":"我們現在上線那目前呢我自己其實已經問了一些有申請的民間夥伴大家都對這個評價是蠻好的包含申請的流程非常的清晰然後送件之後也有專人來電確認資料是否正確所以基本上對於已經知道這個資訊的夥伴來說這個政策是很好的但是但是但是他們為什麼知道這件事情呢其實是我告訴他們的"},{"start":11700.138,"end":11723.245,"text":"為什麼 因為我發現我們在整個初轉基金的宣傳上面值得再加強因為我們基本上只有在國發及國發會上面有宣傳然後行政院發言人有講一句話檔案局自己最高流量的粉絲頁竟然完全沒有這一篇的露出所以我想我們現在申請進度第一波已經到了20件的確算不錯2121 好"},{"start":11726.386,"end":11755.621,"text":"但是如果我們沒有持續更多的宣傳我們就沒有辦法加入新的團體新的個人讓這件事情突破同溫層所以我不曉得說主委您對這件事情的看法上面我們在宣傳上面還能夠怎麼再加強這一個部分我會請那一個局長這一邊把相關的資訊看可以大家在官網上面的話我們可以有一個區域我想除了因為現在官網是有公告但是我們在粉絲頁因為檔案局的粉絲頁其實流量是蠻高的可是在粉絲頁我上面是完全沒有找到"},{"start":11757.421,"end":11783.073,"text":"對對對 會在FB上面會放除了臉書上面 不只FB啦就像Trade上面也可以放我想除了這件事情另外還有就是說我這些來申請的一些團體呢是之前其實有參加說明會的可是這些說明是這個更離譜的地方就在於說他明明有參加說明會可是他竟然資訊是從我這邊得到也就是說我們連那一波說明會的團體有沒有告知都是一個問號是有告知嗎"},{"start":11786.482,"end":11804.37,"text":"我們是有含有含發學校跟團體啦只是說可是當時參加說明會的因為當時我們在整個這個是有因為我問了好幾個他們都說他們不知道這件事情所以我想這部分是不是還可以怎麼樣再多做宣傳好不好那所以後面的那一個宣傳端就是說我們除了宋志華可能還要再再再"},{"start":11805.27,"end":11820.444,"text":"目前是投件之後服務非常好可是宣傳如何讓更多的人可以知道這件事情我覺得這是要再強化的所以我想另外可能也會鼓勵啦就投件的人可以也幫我們廣就是周知一下"},{"start":11821.264,"end":11843.3,"text":"當然我想這大家應該是公司協力啦因為我想國發會過去以來不管是地方創生也好或是這個新創計畫大家都跟我們講說這個國發會做得非常好也就是說國發會有這個專業去串聯民間跟政府這個部分所以我希望這個部分也要一起努力放在促轉基金上面所以接下來會怎麼樣宣傳這是不是可以給我一個簡單的報告好不好那大家什麼時候可以給我"},{"start":11845.198,"end":11864.603,"text":"一個月嗎一個月好嗎不用那麼久啦四月都要公佈了好不好我們是不是兩個禮拜就可以了你簡單你那什麼想法對啊兩個禮拜就可以了吧好好好那再來就是說我希望就是說我們在目前呢接下來進來的這個初短基金的申請案件上面我們應該都要有一些統計數"},{"start":11865.903,"end":11889.291,"text":"也就是說我們是不是可以透過一些統計可能是年齡的統計或是性別統計或者是說他是單團體或是個人等等的我們要做一個詳盡的資訊去了解我們有沒有跨出同溫層也就是這個追蹤的機制這個部分也希望一併建立那一併在報告上面詳述好嗎因為我們目前只有金額啦但我想委員的建議我們可以我們可以再做對對對我們會盡進"},{"start":11891.15,"end":11909.163,"text":"對因為我們希望就是說除了金額之外我們還是希望跨出圈嘛對不對出圈這件事情就需要做一些統計嘛那瞭解我們到底有沒有出圈那沒有出圈我們到底要怎麼來改進所以這需要一些統計的數字那最後一件事情就是說就是有關於檔案局這個政黨所持有的檔案"},{"start":11910.544,"end":11933.254,"text":"目前我從這個114年的轉型正義的這個成果報告在截止到去年12月31號我看到就在政治檔案的政黨所持有的檔案上面我們是已經有提議喊請國民黨提出檔案但是在12月的時候我們要辦理實地調查的時候國民黨說他們沒有辦法配合那上面的說明是告訴我們說115年的1月會繼續調查那我不曉得這個繼續調查是什麼樣子的形式是不是可以簡單說明一下"},{"start":11939.161,"end":11963.614,"text":"基本上我們從114年的9月到115年2月我們都多次的喊請國民黨提出檔案及配合到庫房的調查但他們都一直以說他們有選舉的理由一直在延遲這樣子所以我們現在目前的情況就是說我們會再做最後一次的發函假如說他們還沒有不配合的話那我們會開始思考就是說採取所謂的行政法"},{"start":11964.735,"end":11988.217,"text":"我想這件事情非常的急迫最主要就是說這批檔案過去已經有傳出泡水發霉重鑄等等的這種劣化的情況甚至只有用垃圾袋分裝隔離那保存的環境非常非常的惡劣那如果我們再不積極及時的介入的話我們這些檔案可能都會受損那這些受損的檔案可能會影響到我們對於威權歷史的理解也會"},{"start":11989.258,"end":12008.179,"text":"也會讓對於這個責任的歸屬釐清也會受到影響所以我們是不是在這個檔案局局長是有什麼對這件事情是有什麼我跟他在想說我們什麼時候發函那個局長是跟我講說那個公文已經跨到我這邊所以我借到公文的話我大概就會開始做處理了"},{"start":12008.479,"end":12030.865,"text":"好 所以我剛剛聽到是說我們在會發最後一次函預計是在什麼時候會發最後一次函呢大概是近期大概是這個禮拜這個禮拜會發函那這個函 這個沒有因為其實在促轉條例我們是可以強制的到我們是可以到縣地做調查的我想這個應該是非常清楚的所以我是希望我們可以有更積極的作為那這個發函的時候是不是也可以付本給我們讓我們知道 謝謝"},{"start":12034.232,"end":12051.786,"text":"好 謝謝張雅琳委員 葉主委跟局長先回座下一件事情請郭國文委員謝主席有請葉俊賢主委請國安會葉主委"},{"start":12060.423,"end":12071.618,"text":"那去年南溪地震重創台南的山區的發展那雖然左鎮他這個區域沒有說受到太大影響但整個山區現階段還在屬於一個恢復的階段"},{"start":12074.361,"end":12088.934,"text":"那本席在這邊提醒您在2018年的時候國發會有將這個佐政因為是一個極端的一個部落然後人口不斷地老化把它列為重點的一個示範基地"},{"start":12089.734,"end":12109.295,"text":"那當初做了這層公園之後呢 後續呢我們又延續了化學園區然後後來又舉辦了佐證的這個夜市或燈會等等慢慢的到現在為止 本席呢就最新的資料調查 這人口的這個增減率的部分已呈現正成長"},{"start":12110.396,"end":12130.097,"text":"在114年的時候是1.28%以全國的這個生不如死的一個總體人口的減少的情況底下這樣的偏鄉的成長是代表政策有一定的正面的效果但是這種正面的效果呢不得不我們去面對說當初呢只是一個單點的一個概念卻沒有一個現狀的發展"},{"start":12132.139,"end":12147.7,"text":"那現狀的發展其實在山區以台20線作為一個軸線的情況底下用南北串聯的概念再加上山區的一個地震的情況底下如何讓他快速的恢復其實國會角色其實非常關鍵非常重要那本席就"},{"start":12148.981,"end":12176.545,"text":"就我的了解文化部的部分有投入相關的一個經費當中我能不能請那個主委就這個部分的政策從文化部轉而接棒這個發動那國化部有沒有可能再次的一個加持讓這個整個地方創生達到這一個成倍的效果主委這個部分我們會跟那個文化部這邊來來協調跟演繹看看就是說有沒有可能就文化部現有的組"},{"start":12178.366,"end":12206.685,"text":"體制的那個百億基金裡面提出一個計畫然後配合我們國發會這邊地方創生然後一起把這樣的一個文創啊這些把它帶出來就是除了文化部之外國發會當中有的要如何再加碼然後由上由下延伸然後再加上地方齊備我們當初還有一些問題我們還要去面對我還是一直接手在處理你這層公園你看公園來說台南市政府是不承認它是公園"},{"start":12208.266,"end":12225.815,"text":"你們當初說弄一個公園結果台南市政府到現在不承認所以本席在接手的時候接手二期三期四期相關部會協調的時候就變得很吃力啊所以我請主委特別注意一下這個案子好不好我們那個會後會請同仁跟對找文化部也好找地方政府也好"},{"start":12226.195,"end":12255.12,"text":"然後找你既有在負責地方創生的同仁也好來統合一下新的一個一個加持一個版本地方創生的2.0來告知本席接下來要怎麼做好不好各位第二個部分呢那個本席也特別看到國會會有一個關鍵戰略前瞻能源的規劃而這個規劃當中把生殖能的部分的多元發展放在一個比較重要的位置甚至呢你把累積的裝置的這一個能量也計算出來"},{"start":12255.96,"end":12278.571,"text":"預期呢地熱的部分可以高達到192mW然後呢生殖能的部分是1329mW結束這種情況底下你可以看得出來你們對生殖能的期待更高可是你相對於上位的全國的氣候變遷會議的時候或者是下位的整個那個能源署的計畫當中"},{"start":12280.313,"end":12304.461,"text":"生殖能是偶爾提到而已欸或者是了備一格欸根本沒有一個具體的目標欸這個相關的能源政策應該上中下要有所串聯才對啊 主委如果你對生殖能有此這樣的期待的話你更應該去加強溝通跟協調那本席為什麼一直在強調生殖能呢因為生殖能還可以解決農廢的問題啊它可以一間多僱啊"},{"start":12308.442,"end":12326.994,"text":"而且他還可以達到這個綠電那個比例的一個增加像一些早氣發電啊對啊等等啊這些類似這一種生殖能的部分應該是做放在重點當中的重點反而是聊貝殼主委你這個關鍵性的角色很重要你要怎麼處理這個問題啊"},{"start":12328.535,"end":12352.224,"text":"我們會跟經濟部能源署那邊來討論就是說關於這個生殖能這個部分的話有沒有可能有一個比較一致性的一個政策我問過好幾次了 沒有而且這個生殖能的部分其實是值得推廣的本席還甚至把它找到一個示範點可是示範點當中它只是初步的協助之後後面就"},{"start":12353.186,"end":12381.343,"text":"沒有消息了所以那個主委你站在一個國務法會主委的高度我希望你把生的食能作為未來的你所謂的前瞻的一個概念一個能源政策2.0的概念當中放在一個比較重要的位置予以重視這真的可以解決農廢之外很多問題之外又可以增加綠電的比例然後正的情況底下的能源政策其實是比較完整的把這一塊把它拼圖把它拼起來好不好主委然後"},{"start":12381.903,"end":12406.452,"text":"事後你跟相關的部會協調完之後也麻煩你到我辦公室我們再做一併的討論好不好沒問題好謝謝葉主任好謝謝各位謝謝郭文綺的壓軸質詢來主委先回座下一位陳北宇陳北宇陳北宇不在何志祥何志祥何志祥不在林德福林德福林德福不在林世民林世民林世民不在徐欣盈徐欣盈徐欣盈不在林楚瑩林楚瑩林楚瑩不在還有嗎沒有沒有來好"},{"start":12408.103,"end":12432.751,"text":"報告完畢登記發言委員除不在場者之外趨距發言完畢詢答結束為委員徐信英跟羅志祥所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢及未提答後部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答後並複製本會委員另要求期限者從其所定本日所列議程處理完畢謝謝大家 散會"},{"start":12435.39,"end":12437.015,"text":"來 請各位早點回去"},{"start":12471.215,"end":12471.935,"text":"這碗的,這碗的這個,這個應該好這個給我好了"},{"start":12506.152,"end":12506.476,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"}]}},{"id":"17270","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17270","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3eadc5f31f4729d12f51fc48310b441d33d157d0edf07c12ea605ce10ff332c1a2c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-03-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況(含上會期臨時提案辦理情形)，並備質詢。二、審查委員林俊憲等23人擬具「市區道路條例第二十三條條文修正草案」案。【僅詢答】【3月16日及18日兩天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2026-03-16","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-03-16T08:31:20+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-16T11:31:00+08:00","duration":10780,"影片長度":"02:59:40","委員發言時間":"08:31:20 - 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宣讀本院第十一屆第五會期本會召集委員選舉人名冊選舉事項 選舉第十一屆第五會期本會召集委員二人一 當場推舉張委員洪璐擔任本次會議主席二 各黨團提出書面以推選方式行之主席宣告推選李委員博弈 廖委員先降為本院第十一屆第五會期本會召集委員 宣讀完畢請問張常委員 上次會議議事錄有沒有遺漏或者是錯誤"},{"start":1901.323,"end":1925.471,"text":"好,那如果沒有錯誤的話,我們就依事錄確定繼續進行本日議程,請宣讀報告事項二,邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況,含上會及臨時提案辦理情形,並備質詢討論事項,審查委員林軍憲等23人擬拒,市區道路條例第23條條文修正草案案宣讀完畢"},{"start":1929.584,"end":1947.273,"text":"本日議程進行報告事項跟討論事項那合併詢答現在介紹在場委員跟列席官員我們先介紹張志文委員蘇巧惠委員黃婕委員王美惠委員"},{"start":1952.827,"end":1980.843,"text":"好謝謝,因為今天內政部來的官員非常多,我重點介紹請劉士凡部長大家好國土署蔡長展署長警政署張榮興署長中央警察大學黃明昭校長消防署蕭煥章署長"},{"start":1983.871,"end":2002.912,"text":"移民署林鴻恩署長國家公園署王承基署長住度中心董事長花敬群好謝謝那內政部來的官員非常多很多司長處長我這裡就不一一介紹"},{"start":2006.145,"end":2026.234,"text":"今天有排一個案,就是有關盜交條例,那這個其實是跟燃料稅有關這是林郡縣委員的提案,先請林郡縣委員提案說明如果沒有的話有沒有代表?沒有好,如果沒有的話,那我們就直接請劉世芳部長跟業務報告跟法案一併報告要不要先時間?一併報告"},{"start":2042.491,"end":2056.6,"text":"主席 各位委員 女士 先生 大家早今天早上有兩個口頭報告一個就是內政部的業務報告一個就是剛剛主席採釋的有關於修正市區道路條例第23條條文的報告那口頭報告有兩個"},{"start":2057.541,"end":2084.762,"text":"我先從內政部的業務報告跟各位委員女士先生來做報告今天可以到內政委員會來報告我們內政部的業務概況深感榮幸感謝各位委員長期對於內政業務的策略跟支持上個會期有通過多項與民眾權益息息相關的法案也讓各項作業能夠與時俱進具體推展我們國家新的制度以下僅就三大面向的重點"},{"start":2085.302,"end":2103.952,"text":"向各位委員先進來檢要報告那另外本部的重要工作推動情形的詳細資料也敬請各位委員可以參閱我們的書面報告首先呢在安心安全任性家園的方面第一個是有關於維護社會安定面對詐欺犯罪手法日新月異本部持續滾動"},{"start":2106.073,"end":2131.087,"text":"經進床詐作為在114年11月7日升格詐欺犯罪防治中心擴大編制新設詐欺偵查隊並且在115年1月21日公布施行詐欺犯罪違害條例防治違害條例的修正案以提升第一線人員執法的效能另外為了維護安全生活環境內政部持續加強打擊幫派毒品等犯罪"},{"start":2131.767,"end":2155.312,"text":"並且策進緊急維安事件處置作為建立警察機關快速打擊犯罪部隊分級調度與應處機制以守護全民的安全第二有關深化社會防衛力的部分為了將自助及互助能量紮根地方擴大推動防災式的培訓到115年2月底止已經有超過11萬1千名合格的防災式"},{"start":2156.292,"end":2173.981,"text":"同時透過韌性特別預算優化各地避難空間確保每一寸國土都有強大的守護韌性此外為了堅實全國災害防救體系運作的效能推動研修災害防救法規劃增列驗澀湖災害以及增訂公務機關應該設置災防長等規範"},{"start":2177.342,"end":2194.853,"text":"這個草案在115年1月27日已經函報行政院審查希望這個會期可以送到大院來進行審查以達到我們在深化社會防衛力的一個功能第三有關精進警消權益維護方面為了落實警消權益的照護"},{"start":2195.914,"end":2223.697,"text":"行政院核定從115年3月1日起調高全國刑事加成由原來資整級數額加6成提升為加8成並且全面調升警察勤務繁重加成以及消防危險加擠除了提高六都加成上限之外並且擴大納入基隆市等13個本島縣市最高可加發4成之擠以衛免基層警消同仁的薪勞"},{"start":2224.818,"end":2252.284,"text":"第二大項在安居低碳永續環境方面一擴大居住照顧配合115年3月4日修正公佈住宅法明定社會住宅至少20%出租與新婚或育有未成年子女的家庭以及建置社會住宅申請登記平台內政部將持續運用多元新辦社會住宅社宅包租代管租金補貼等政策實質減輕民眾居住的負擔"},{"start":2254.724,"end":2273.645,"text":"同時為了持續推展青年婚姻租屋協助支持專案115年將擴大到9個縣市提供超過1000戶並且延長育兒家庭成租年限最高達12年來搭配補貼加碼等措施打造婚姻民眾最有力的支持系統"},{"start":2274.406,"end":2298.651,"text":"二共創國土新風貌因應我國住宅老化高齡化社會的雙重挑戰內政部跟衛福部以及經濟部也推出老宅延壽機能的復興計畫將在116年底以前投入新台幣50億元韌性特別預算協助約2到3萬戶民眾整修30年以上老舊住宅"},{"start":2299.631,"end":2319.47,"text":"內政部已經陸續辦理了總共15場地方的巡迴說明會與民眾來充分溝通跟對話讓老屋對變為符合全民生活機能的友善住宅為了精進相關的制度推動研修都市危險及老舊建築物加速重建條例並且在114年12月17日函報行政院審查"},{"start":2322.813,"end":2342.887,"text":"新增修繕方式及付稅減免以增進參與的誘因後續將檢討修正都市更新條例的相關法規以推升民眾自行實施都市更新量能也期待在未來大院可以在這個會期審查有關都市更新條例的相關法條"},{"start":2343.948,"end":2370.114,"text":"第三推動工地放領方面為了落實憲法扶植自耕農的政策展開工地放領工作內政部在115年2月2日修正發布《國有耕地放領實施辦法》截至115年3月13日子已經審議通過包括宜蘭縣、台東縣、彰化縣三岸放領案協助辛勤耕耘的農民取得長期守護的土地"},{"start":2371.024,"end":2393.32,"text":"第三大項在民主友善共榮社會方面一精進地方治理為了落實114年12月3日修正公佈的地方製度法提高地方民意代表婦女保障比例等本部已經在12月26日函請各地方政府依照修正後規定推動政務並且積極研修配套的執法"},{"start":2393.88,"end":2411.702,"text":"另外為了配合行政區劃程序法在115年7月1日施行為了確立行政區域調整程序一致化現在正在完備相關的配套措施以確保地方發展符合民眾的需求二友善人權環境方面"},{"start":2412.262,"end":2426.459,"text":"為了建立更具吸引力的流財環境配合《外國專業人才研覽及僱用法》的修正從115年1月1日起放寬外國特定專業人才申請永久居留等規範預估超過2萬人會受惠"},{"start":2429.122,"end":2443.459,"text":"另外為了減輕新住民家庭在台育兒及生活負擔114年12月30日修正發布《外國人停留居留及永久居留辦法》放寬外國籍父母在台停留期間預計會超過2000個家庭受惠"},{"start":2446.182,"end":2465.342,"text":"結語的部分內政團隊將持續秉持務實執行專業領航的精神堅韌前行希望各位委員先進不吝給予策略跟指導共同建設幸福家園另外大院第十四屆第四會期內政委員會通過有關本部臨時提案辦理情形降附候表敬請參閱"},{"start":2467.557,"end":2490.759,"text":"有關第二個口頭報告的部分就是剛剛有提到大院委員林俊憲等23人提案修正市區道路條例第23條條文提出報告感謝各位委員對我們的關心跟指導那就有關於內政委會審議委員提案之市區道路條例部分條文修正草案我們的延期意見簡要說明如下"},{"start":2492,"end":2507.926,"text":"委員林俊憲賴瑞榮等23人提案指出現行的汽車燃料使用費是作為道路養護與安全管理之經費來源之一因應電動車日益普及並且落實使用者付費原則卻有檢討之必要"},{"start":2508.726,"end":2534.85,"text":"一市區道路條例第23條規定汽車燃料使用費為市區道路經費來源之一並且由公路主管機關統一徵收後分配另外查訪公路法第27條業餘114年12月19日修正公佈已經將汽車燃料使用費更名為公路使用養護安全管理費第三為了維持法體系的用語一致"},{"start":2535.77,"end":2559.55,"text":"並且有利於後續制度的執行內政部將配合公路法修正相關的條文綜合上面所述為了配合公路法修正內容委員提案修正市區道路條例第23條相關規定以確保法制一致與制度順利推動內政部敬表支持僅提供內政部建議如上上請各位委員參考感謝好 謝謝部長"},{"start":2564.445,"end":2591.426,"text":"現在進行詢答委員質詢前原例做幾點宣告1.每位委員發言時間本會委員5分鐘,必要時得延長2分鐘,非本會委員5分鐘,上午10點30分截止登記發言本次會議不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見?沒有好,那現在進行詢答請登記第一位的蘇巧慧委員發言"},{"start":2603.251,"end":2605.192,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請劉部長來 請劉部長委員早部長好部長 新會期開始想首先針對幾個最近其實在地方反映社會反映都很正面的一些訊息跟你做一些就教因為我們需要有更深刻更細緻的資訊在裡面第一個的話就是講這個警消的加急"},{"start":2632.583,"end":2645.839,"text":"我想行政院在核定自這個3月1日起調高了全國的刑事加成那這個消防的部分也有這個增加我們的待遇這是中央和地方大家都樂見全國都樂見的部分可不可以請部長再幫我們解釋一下說明一下我們這次的調高大概是到什麼樣的程度"},{"start":2653.508,"end":2673.185,"text":"謝謝委員的指教其實委員非常清楚我們在上個會期內政委員會的時候包括委員在內都大力推動那所以有關加成的部分在警察方面就是我們擴大到非六都的部分那原來在六都的部分的話它的加成就是我剛剛所報告的會提高到兩成左右"},{"start":2673.866,"end":2681.955,"text":"那再來就是有關刑事加擠的部分這次也是列計進去那現在我們警政署正要求各地的縣市政府警察局長趕快來報告他們的縣市長希望可以塑製今年3月1號就開始"},{"start":2688.943,"end":2713.731,"text":"現在就是想請問的這個部分其實我們非常非常的知道警察同仁的辛苦所以中央地方全國那我們當然各委員在這個立法院這邊可以要求的時候不管公開或私下其實都是希望能夠調高這樣的待遇所以以我們新北市我們新北市來舉例的話一般員警呢在修正前和修正後其實每個月的10領加給"},{"start":2715.171,"end":2737.204,"text":"幾乎是可以到快3000元那形式呢其實每個月的使領加給最高有將近將近5000元其實是差別蠻大的那這就是對勤務繁重尤其是我們六都其實是一個最實際的鼓勵可是你剛剛也說到了其實部長這就是我想詢問的中央已經調高了等於是打開了這個天花板那"},{"start":2737.964,"end":2755.3,"text":"地方的預算編列您說您現在是要求地方縣市的警察局跟首長報告然後預算編列那請問這個時程是什麼時候報告委員我想應該是這樣子第一個呢今年正在執行的預算大部分的縣市政府呢都已經在議會裡面通過"},{"start":2756.721,"end":2772.832,"text":"是那但是呢我們在今年執行的預算的時候發現到說我們警察在各縣市地方政府呢他們的人事經費其實是有餘裕的因為到處的員額啊都不是那麼滿的狀況之下所以在沒有增加特別"},{"start":2773.392,"end":2798.614,"text":"特別需要在議會通過這個預算之前如果縣市首長他同意的話再送議會知道說有這個辦法公布之後那其實我們有核算過應該從今年3月1號來追溯是沒有太大問題的那目前為止包括新北市在內他們在3月13的時候已經有核定包括繁重加急以及勤務的加急"},{"start":2799.395,"end":2826.404,"text":"非常好那部長謝謝你這邊的說明那我想透過您的說明其實全國各縣市也都可以看得到我們是不但調高了規定調高了值值那同時也認為這個預算是有空間可以編列下去所以實際在現在就可以馬上執行而且是可以回溯到今年的3月就可以開始執行的那我希望各縣市政府那當然我們很高興樂見新北市也已經在3月13號已經通過了"},{"start":2828.044,"end":2843.141,"text":"好那這樣的話另外一個下一個進度的話就是我們其實也在尤其是我啦我記得去年的10月16號也和民進黨的委員們都共同的提案其實我們還有另外在爭取一個部分也就是請內政部研議擴大深夜為勞津貼的核發範圍"},{"start":2848.226,"end":2863.159,"text":"因為我們認為說要輪班維修的人員他即使是駐地內勤的這個部分其實也應該要可以納入那我不曉得從去年的10月我們要求了之後到現在現在研議的進度如何報告委員"},{"start":2864.02,"end":2879.564,"text":"我們在三大這個津貼或者是三大這個加擠的部分就是剛剛所說的警察跟消防那現在有關於深夜圍牢津貼本來他如果是在勤的話本來就沒有太大問題我們要爭取的是深夜圍牢津貼是屬於被勤的"},{"start":2880.264,"end":2898.624,"text":"背勤的部分那因為屬於背勤的部分的話人數就擴大非常的多除了我們的警消以外還有包括海巡或者是還有包括其他的這個有證紙的人所以呢在行政院人事行政總處或者主計處在核算的時候呢就會碰到這個困難那既然有這個困難的話我們還是來持續爭取"},{"start":2902.148,"end":2921.876,"text":"希望能夠朝著這方向來努力那現在為止還沒有定案我們還是再一次的表達啦其實不管是只要是他有在這段時間內在深夜有工作的當然我們知道到外勤是當然更辛苦他所以可以有在危險勤務的加急但是他如果是在備勤的狀態說實在備就是備嘛"},{"start":2925.037,"end":2938.571,"text":"背就是如果有的時候我就要出去了所以我們還是認為這個背景應該要納入深夜圍牢津貼的部分了所以我們還是再一次的表達希望內政部可以再跟行政院爭取這個部分的預算對我們的員警能夠有最實質的鼓勵對我們的消防員能夠有實質的鼓勵這是我們再一次的表達意見部長"},{"start":2946.839,"end":2959.915,"text":"請繼續堅持我們會繼續爭取因為它裡面的人數真的非常的多但是我還是一直在強調說現在是屬於本來就有外勤的本來就有現在是被勤的部分所以被勤的部分我們會繼續爭取"},{"start":2963.679,"end":2992.006,"text":"好 所以這個部分的話到這裡謝謝您的說明那另外也有一個一樣是非常受歡迎的政策但是也是希望有更細部的說明就是老宅延壽所以署長可以請回那這個老宅延壽我想這個內政部也在各次長的帶領之下其實到地方開了非常多次的說明會可以看得到其實鄉親出席的都非常非常的踴躍可見得對這個老宅延壽政策是表示非常支持的那"},{"start":2992.466,"end":3003.115,"text":"我們現在的狀況反而是說哇 當時提出了50億的預算要來這個支持要來執行這個老宅延送可是你眼看著來參與說明會來報名的人可能不只這樣吧那所以內政部有什麼樣的因應狀況呢那同時我們在問題"},{"start":3011.101,"end":3029.436,"text":"提出的同時也已經看到了坊間媒體就之前內政部2月5號的新聞稿說明以後變成有一種消息在坊間流傳說變成因為內政部因為知道自己這個政策很受歡迎所以它有四個來源加總它從有一種寫法是它是創造100億元的產值這是一種說法"},{"start":3031.638,"end":3047.647,"text":"但是以後另外一種說法會變成是你已經再加碼了50億等於是籌措到另外50億的這個的費用預算也就是變成是100億的預算那這個部分部長請問到底哪一種何者為真哪一種是您現在的方向"},{"start":3048.047,"end":3071.187,"text":"是謝謝委員的關心那委員也在地方上辦說明會的時候呢多次出席也幫鄉親來爭取權益我跟委員報告一下50億是真真確確在上一次我們特別預算的時候這是大家內政確定的然後三年內要執行結束沒錯但是呢我們發現到我們在推老宅延售的時候呢衛福部他也要加進來"},{"start":3072.068,"end":3100.651,"text":"所以衛福部的經費是額外的對 22億那經濟部呢他們也想加進來經濟部有關於太陽光電也好或是其他ESCO的部分呢他們也要額外的部分那再來一個就是說我們在推動的過程當中啊地方也要按照地方他們的這個財政收支劃分法裡面的層級他們也必須要有一部分的補貼的經費放到裡面來那還有一個申請老宅延壽的人呢他自己也要有一部分的自備款"},{"start":3101.431,"end":3126.844,"text":"所以呢我們用非常粗略的這個估計下來的話呢50億可能會增加變成到100億左右的這樣的產值會出現那哪一些會受惠呢第一個當然是申請老宅延壽的這些人第二個有關於像這個土木包工業或是修繕業者等等這些也會受惠那目前呢院長有再三要求我們把它備變清楚之後我們預計在今年5月就開始申請上路"},{"start":3128.044,"end":3140.649,"text":"部長我還是建議我們的預算來源的數字和產值這兩個名詞可能不要混用可能比較好一點因為您剛剛也是又提到了說我們又加進了衛福部經濟部到這裡為止我們都非常樂見樂見有更多的資源投入這一個專案當中這個是我們樂見的但如果後面跳到我們初估會有100億的產值這兩個字出來我們就又會混淆掉了"},{"start":3153.954,"end":3180.392,"text":"我剛剛有聽懂你的狀況應該就是我們會增加更多的預算那未來呢到底什麼樣的標準各縣市有沒有一定的比例比如說我新北市其實老宅最多啊那我是不是可以爭取最多王美惠已經在那邊搖頭了不行我新北市還是最多我們新北市要最多所以在這樣的狀況下我希望這個規範也可以更清楚所以部長這個部分的話也請你提供資料讓我們可以進一步跟鄉親說明好 是的謝謝文的指教好 謝謝"},{"start":3183.254,"end":3207.667,"text":"好謝謝僑會委員接下來請張志倫委員發言好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員各位媒體朋友大家早安有請劉思芳劉部長我們警政署張署長以及國土署蔡署長還請部長署長"},{"start":3216.679,"end":3240.34,"text":"部長早 首先還是這是這個會期第一次質詢本席在這邊還是要感謝內政部跟所屬單位過去的辛勞 那也期待這個會期大家一起努力好 那首先還是要先請教一下我們內政部這次的業務匯報裡面聚集在幾個最近這個有很多這個大家所重視的以及我們很多基層"},{"start":3241.141,"end":3258.453,"text":"的核心的問題主要要請教的就是最近剛剛我們前面有委員有提到說這個最近內政部有提高這個警消的這個警情加急的部分那我覺得這個是非常好的一件事情那加急的金額大概約2000多元"},{"start":3260.074,"end":3277.386,"text":"那可是本席這邊還是要為這個我們很多的基層的警察尤其是警察來發聲因為就最近上個月的新聞表示我們現在警察的缺額已經連續三年的缺額人數屢創新高從113年缺額達2392名到114年缺額達2344人今年的缺額還創歷史新高2402人"},{"start":3288.354,"end":3303.787,"text":"所以我的意思是說雖然我們有這樣子的家籍喔是很好可是警察基層警察的心聲是什麼呢他們是低職等高工時啊他們家青喔要靠家籍我覺得這是他們內心喔最深沉想要"},{"start":3304.828,"end":3325.945,"text":"想要請部長跟署長來協助的地方所以本席在這邊講其實基層警察他們的這個本縫是非常的低啊他們的薪水都要靠這個加給來去做把他們的薪水提高所以看起來很高事實上是很低尤其他們以後退休的時候是用本縫來去看他們未來的退休的狀況"},{"start":3326.866,"end":3354.484,"text":"所以我在這邊是不是說既然我們都可以讓我們基層的警察的薪水整體的提高是不是這個會期部長跟署長我們可以來討論是不是我們的警察的職等跟諷點有沒有機會來提高比如說舉例諷點的部分同樣是公務人員警察的諷點他的折算率就比公務人員低所以很多警察覺得這非常不公平為什麼這個警察的諷點"},{"start":3355.545,"end":3378.922,"text":"會比公務人員低那是不是可以建議有沒有辦法這個折算率可以把它取消讓警察的縫點警察非常辛苦而且警察現在很多的他的教育水平也非常的高是不是可以跟公務人員比照一樣的縫點那第二個就是職等的問題現在基層警員的職等三到五職等是不是可以提升到六職等然後可以不用經過考試來請部長署長回答"},{"start":3383.843,"end":3411.15,"text":"謝謝張委員的關心我想對於警察福利的爭取大概就是不分黨派大家都會極力爭取因為警員真的是非常的辛苦我想應該都是警消都非常辛苦但是委員剛所提到就是說要修改這個縫點等等這些就是我們跟一般的公務人員不太一樣而且在修改的過程當中我們確實會需要跟這個包括考試院在內或是人事行政總署"},{"start":3412.33,"end":3438.849,"text":"做一下專案性的討論那至於這奉典上面怎麼比序會比較好我是不是請那個署長跟你回應一下非常謝謝委員的支持檢查的這個待遇跟這個整個的升遷那對於警察人員的這個福利跟一般公園確實是不一樣的包括我們的奉典的算法跟我們是警佐警政跟警監那跟一般的檢監委的一般公園是不同的那對於這個對"},{"start":3441.511,"end":3466.75,"text":"那這個部分我們想就是我們會來做跟相關單位來做一個一個研議就好像我們對於我們的景形加息我們也經過努力之後終於在去年行政院有做核定那至於這一個等階的這個部分那我們也會來做一個跟相關單位來做一個研議謝謝委員給我們時間我們對於奉典跟這個等階主的等階我們來研議來做對遠景"},{"start":3469.512,"end":3493.198,"text":"做最好的一個幫助請問署長大概要多久的時間我們可能要跟考試員跟人總來做一個協調那是不是給我們三個月的時間來做這樣的一個溝通因為這個是對制度性架構比較大的一個方向那我們來做因為有一些是整個全國是橫平性的一個問題"},{"start":3494.238,"end":3512.498,"text":"那我們朝這兩方向來做一個原因好 謝謝署長為什麼我要這樣提因為現在很多畢業生他們都說如果他的薪水跟警察差不多那不如他去做工程師因為工程師也輪班制嘛那還沒有像警察一樣 消防一樣這麼有危險性所以要拜託署長多多幫忙謝謝 謝委員"},{"start":3513.559,"end":3528.999,"text":"那再來我想要請教就是其實在上個會期我想要請教就是光電這個要裝置在屋頂板的這個問題啊其實上個會期我就請教這個部長跟國土組之間的吳署長就是說這個問題點就是說"},{"start":3531.261,"end":3547.063,"text":"我們本來這樣子現在的草案喔已經本來是說我們還要再繼續研議喔然後現在已經變成說今年8月1號要上路就是整個草案的內容就是要強制我們現在所有的住宅不管是一般住宅商辦"},{"start":3548.044,"end":3571.027,"text":"工廠等等的這個建築面積在1000平方公尺以上要強制設置光電板那這個本來是說我記得我第一次問部長的時候部長是說本來是只有在工廠跟工有建物可是不知道為什麼感覺起來好像文內政部被經濟部綁架現在8月1號就要草草上路所以可是我想要請問部長跟署長的部分"},{"start":3571.747,"end":3594.807,"text":"現在這樣子這麼大的一個變化要要求所有的建物一般的建物包含是住宅那本席在這邊也屢次提到說這樣會影響到尤其是都會區的這個問題不管是住宅的安全以及未來很多的維護等等的狀況那我想要請教內政部的確是要8月1號就要上路嗎"},{"start":3597.137,"end":3625.624,"text":"來 請說報告委員確實沒有錯我們跟那個經濟部一起會嫌的時候是依照再生能源條例在115年8月1號開始施行但是我們在施行的時候是對於新建或者是改建的面積的時候做設置那委員一再都是很關心說那個建築尤其是屋頂上面如果有安全上的顧慮的話怎麼樣處理那相關的部分我是不是請這個蔡署長跟您簡單回覆好 謝謝署長"},{"start":3627.348,"end":3652.008,"text":"市長確定這個要8月1號上路嗎因為本席這邊要特別提到先在下一頁我要講一下世界各國的案例其實在亞洲國家現在只有日本在東京有在稍微示範一下而且他是要求大型建築業者來去做實行那如果這些大型建築業者他們沒有做其實是沒有相關的罰則所以我表的你8月1號上路的時候如果有些這個"},{"start":3654.169,"end":3681.331,"text":"有些案子他沒有辦法裝 你們未來是不會發建造還是怎麼樣 所以是不是可以請你現在說明一下跟委員報告 其實每一個建築物大概會有一些不一樣的太陽那我們現在在這個北部的地區有召開過一次說明會那中南部也會繼續召開那這裡面還是會有一些比較權宜性的 譬如說光照程度或者是結構有問題的那這些再報給建築主管機關以及能源主管機關這邊來核定"},{"start":3682.622,"end":3709.996,"text":"有特殊狀況還有他的權益處理方式那原則上還是8月1號要實施那我想要請教一下因為你開了說明會以後可不可以把說明會的資料提給我一下那就是說到底產業界跟我們民眾有沒有什麼樣相關的反饋或回應那你們是不是本席在這邊當然要建議啊就像在日本整個亞洲國家因為現在這個制度我們是學習歐洲的可是在亞洲國家其實現在沒有任何國家是整個國家全體一致適用的"},{"start":3710.296,"end":3730.093,"text":"那台灣這樣子來做適不適合亞洲的環境跟亞洲這麼密集的建築的一個問題以及未來的民怨等等因為本席在這邊已經跟內政部拜託跟國土組拜託很多次了所以拜託還是要這個來瞭解一下不要政策實行下去未來很大的影響最後一個問題我想請教部長"},{"start":3731.294,"end":3749.059,"text":"部長最近我相信很多這個民眾都在關心台灣少子化的國安危機因為這個在去年生育率大概是10萬左右今年大概預計才9萬那今年2月其實新聞已經有出來的我們的生育的人口數好像才這個"},{"start":3751.079,"end":3768.121,"text":"六千多人一個月才六千多人所以這個生意率非常的少那請問在內政部而言你們有沒有什麼來解決這個少子化的一些方案跟對策報告委員少子化是跨部會包括從國發會衛福部或是教育部都要一起來處理"},{"start":3769.262,"end":3785.958,"text":"那跟那個我們的這個內政部相關的部分都是大概在社會住宅的提供那社會住宅提供的部分呢在上個會期的時候呢我們的這個住宅法修正包括我們把婚育宅的比例提高或者他撫養未成年的子女的從12歲提高到18歲"},{"start":3787.159,"end":3815.652,"text":"那這個部分我們都要按照委員所通過的這個法律上面來做施行未來我們會提供將近有1000戶以上的這個婚育宅那如果需要配合就是現在興建的社會住宅不夠的話那包租代管業者我們也會從這個方向來加強也就是說我們希望能夠提供給有婚育需求的這些年輕人更多社會住宅上面的一個制度性上的協助好 謝謝表達 希望內政部繼續加油 謝謝好 謝謝張志文委員"},{"start":3818.359,"end":3835.899,"text":"接下來我們請王宏威委員發言謝謝好 謝謝主席我請劉部長還有我們地政司司長有請劉部長還有林司長"},{"start":3841.921,"end":3863.946,"text":"請問一下住宅三法現在院都還沒有預告我想請問一下你們的草案什麼時候會提出來住宅三法 報告委員我們上個會期住宅法已經修正通過一部分的條文請問一下我在這邊特別關心的就是租賃住宅的這個管理條例"},{"start":3865.146,"end":3889.134,"text":"因為我要特別說的是大家在談這個所謂的居住正義那最近我們在看這個整個的房租雖然這個主計處他最新公布的有關於CBI房租的租金的漲幅現在看起來比較趨於緩和但是但是長期以來在我們都會區七都來說這個租金的漲幅"},{"start":3892.955,"end":3909.452,"text":"一年的租金漲幅多的話都可以達到8%以上像我們台北市8%以上那也有去統計就是我們的薪資的漲幅比如說過去五年來薪資的漲幅大概只有2%左右但是"},{"start":3910.573,"end":3937.761,"text":"租金的漲幅可以到10%或20%所以顯然是不完全不平衡的那我想請問一下我們現在所在推動的租賃住宅的這個管理條例裡面有關於就是說要如何的去讓租金能夠動漲然後讓這個整個的租約能夠穩定我想這事實上是在整個的這個房屋市場大家在高度關注的"},{"start":3939.241,"end":3956.73,"text":"所以我想請問若部長搞不清楚的話是不是可以請司長回答我就是你們這個就是住在三法裡面特別是在租金租賃市場的部分你們什麼時候預告然後這個方向是不是已經確定了"},{"start":3957.881,"end":3977.96,"text":"有關租賃條例的部分 當然我們都會關心租客自己本身的權益剛剛委員所提到的部分 現在都還沒確定但是我們研議的方向 我請市長跟您報告一下我關心的是第一個 是不是確定要保限制三年的租金不得上漲"},{"start":3979.979,"end":4008.787,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們租賃條例之前提出來規劃方向第一個是保障雙方的一個租房客房東的權益包含面對不良的房東房客如何處理時間有限那個部分沒有問題我們把它縮小那第二個部分有關於租期跟租金漲幅的限制的部分我們之前有開公聽會這個方向確定了嗎這個部分的話大家的意見比較分歧所以我們現在也在做一個研議當中所以這個部分還沒有"},{"start":4009.207,"end":4012.029,"text":"完全的確定我要特別說的就是這個利益良善希望能夠讓租金動漲但是我們比較擔心的就如同比如說你一杯咖啡一杯咖啡我要規定它三年你不能漲價"},{"start":4026.678,"end":4043.153,"text":"但是呢這個時候呢我非常有可能你規定我三年不能漲價那麼我現在賣的時候我就先漲價所以可能造成整個的租金第一波就開始整個的上漲所以這個是非常非常特別要注意的所以到目前為止你們還在研議還沒有完全確定我要特別說的部長我希望我們在談這個居住正義因為我們的社宅現在的這個數量"},{"start":4054.563,"end":4066.319,"text":"其實已經跳票了原來要從13萬戶變成4萬戶但是呢有關於租金的負擔率租金負擔率我希望內政部要有一個目標以我們雙北來講"},{"start":4069.804,"end":4092.221,"text":"如果你在這個整個的租金市場很多人都講我今天付租金大概是我薪資的一半以上這事實上對於大部分的上班族民眾他的負擔是非常非常的重那我們合理的租金應該把他起碼起碼把他加到三成以下能不能用這個目標來往前面進行否則的話我們談了十多年的居住正義談到現在"},{"start":4099.907,"end":4119.143,"text":"租金依然高 房價依然偏高居住綜藝永遠沒有辦法實現報告委員 有關於社宅的部分中央跟地方合在一起的數目之中央是負擔三分之二然後地方負擔三分之一那我們還是朝著這方面來前進那剛剛委員所關心的就是說租客自己本身目前都是滾動性在檢討那個剛剛民主票叫滾動性檢討 再來"},{"start":4128.631,"end":4151.483,"text":"租金負擔率租金負擔率剛剛你所提到租金負擔的比例的部分你所提到就是有關於寫在文字上面跟沒有寫在文字上面隱藏性的租金到底在什麼地方其實我們的相關單位也在查查就是包括它到底是不是水電費或是其他的部分把它弄出來之後公佈於是所以我希望你們因為我待會還有一個很重要的題目我希望你們把這個租金負擔率把它"},{"start":4158.366,"end":4169.732,"text":"至少在初階要把他定位在在我們的這個薪資的三成以下好不好 因為這才是比較稍微合理的部分但是還要看他的地點啦沒有錯沒有錯啊 可是我們就要努力啊來來來 時間暫停一下我請一下我們移民署的署長好嗎"},{"start":4188.438,"end":4211.206,"text":"還是請部長往前因為這個是涉及政策部長這個事實上我在之前的會期我就有提出來因為我們現在大家都說軍警消事實上裡面也包含海巡還有我們的移民署移民署過去很多同仁是從警察分出來的這個應該您很清楚"},{"start":4211.866,"end":4228.927,"text":"但是我們現在的這個照護方案就是比較軍人的照護方案不管是他的就醫或者他有沒有這個優惠方案在整個的軍警警消海巡裡面這個的方案獨獨遺漏移民署的同仁"},{"start":4229.688,"end":4248.675,"text":"我認為這非常不合理第一個移民署的同仁我過去有講過去他們很多都是警方出身的那另外就是移民署的同仁他在第一線執勤的時候他跟警消很多也同樣具有危險性"},{"start":4249.836,"end":4262.829,"text":"過去我們移民署頭人其實受傷的啦或者在第一線執勤的時候被攻擊所在多有多有聽聞所以部長我為什麼要請你來答覆"},{"start":4264.517,"end":4284.08,"text":"我們內政部可不可以把這個照護方案獨立移民署的部分把這個洞給補起來讓我們移民署的同仁不會變成好像你的次等同仁在照護方案的時候能夠一律的能夠一視同仁"},{"start":4284.4,"end":4298.617,"text":"可不可以謝謝王委員的關心我在過年期間也到專請隊去確實有這樣的現象現在我們的裝備跟配備我們希望可以比照警政署同時您剛所提到的照顧方案的部分我們也希望可以比照現在這個在爭取當中"},{"start":4300.399,"end":4326.608,"text":"好大概什麼時候給我們一點時間來協調因為不會是只有內政部我們還要協調其他的相關單位譬如說像人總他們要同意這樣子的一個方法是不是可以一起試用但是他們的心情程度我們都非常清楚我知道那可不可以今年上半年之前把這整個事情定案可以吧報告員定案我不敢講但是朝著這個方向我們來協調一定會告訴我們現在的協調方向"},{"start":4327.108,"end":4350.004,"text":"好 所以你這邊就是答應我嘛 就是未來一面的討論我有講到我會來爭取 但是因為不一定是由我們來單獨決定所以我們要 必須要有點時間 讓人家有這個協調的空間但是我相信內政部去爭取的話 對於民主同仁來講 他們可以感受到這份的關心和溫暖然後我也希望能夠在今年上半年 能夠把這個案子定案"},{"start":4350.885,"end":4374.737,"text":"因為剛才特別提到就是我們現在包含我們首都的這個警消的加擠這部分我是肯定的不是首都是全台灣都有當然因為我是台北市吧我們長期在對不起我們長期在爭取的是首都加擠當然你是全台灣加擠我們也很肯定但是我覺得就是像這個照覆方案能夠不要遺漏就不要遺漏好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝"},{"start":4379.912,"end":4390.702,"text":"接下來我們請王美惠委員主席謝謝主席我們現在內政部長來請劉部長"},{"start":4400.243,"end":4422.849,"text":"法定人數不足 平安平安在今年我們立法院有通過一個因應國際情勢的強化的經濟社會和民生國安內省的特別條例嘛我們剛才說叫做國安內省特別預算"},{"start":4424.279,"end":4432.542,"text":"在這個過程當中,我們內政部有編了一個六十二億塊錢是要用來強化國土防衛再來又編一個五十億"},{"start":4439.102,"end":4459.216,"text":"是要用在改善我們的老宅的安全的問題所以這叫做老宅延遂的計畫在這個過程當中我相信普通跟所有的人跟本市的一樣都覺得這是非常好的進程"},{"start":4465.486,"end":4482.316,"text":"但是白色,盲啊盲,淡啊淡,覺得不知道當時我們還用得著在這個過程當中,我也對普通這個政策在必戰"},{"start":4483.837,"end":4493.832,"text":"但是在這個過程中,我相信普通人知道,在5年內,2年到27年,有辦一場申請會,我相信裡面也有精粹的內容"},{"start":4500.561,"end":4521.538,"text":"家裡吃得好,家裡管得好,婚姻也好,都想說要怎麼去清除他的權利,要怎麼去改善他的老宅因為家裡,我們全國來說,你知道全國的30年以上,有幾百棟嗎?"},{"start":4528.541,"end":4531.903,"text":"幾百萬太少了五百多五百萬左右有五百萬左右啦在這個過程中因為我們身為一個國會的委員我們是要提供他的訴求也要全國的訴求都要說"},{"start":4556.496,"end":4583.035,"text":"莫丁你覺得假期期,假期期有三十六年以上的有幾度?這可能要拜託委員跟我說,但是我再跟委員報告我們這邊,本來五十億的特別醫生是針對三十年以上四年跟六年會集合住宅,跟六年以下會透天住宅"},{"start":4584.135,"end":4591.261,"text":"很主持這個方案在3月5號現在還是3月行政院院會已經通過我們預計在5月的時候就會推出來這段期間我們其實跟縣市地方政府正在加強溝通因為要申請老宅延壽是很專業的所以我們希望每一個縣市政府要有一個專案的輔導團隊"},{"start":4611.497,"end":4617.381,"text":"那這個專案輔導團隊呢在內政部這邊已經委託出去但是有些縣市政府他的專案輔導團隊譬如說我們要找營造或者是建設或者是住都或者是金融管理的這些形成一個團隊呢還沒有完全完成那我們未來會盡量請他們加快也就是委員去參加的時候同時去介紹都算是一個建築師"},{"start":4636.555,"end":4651.127,"text":"他才知道說電視什麼東西,你不可以用眼睛看,你要很專業那這個呢,就是縣市地方政府會很快把它通過之後我們馬上就會到每個縣市,希望他5月就可以來開始申請補充,在這裡我來補充一下,加2次有7萬4千棟的30年以上的老房子"},{"start":4661.736,"end":4671.44,"text":"在這個過程當中 我覺得補充這個剛才蘇策委員說他要建築他的新北市那麼多的建築帶一個他本身的故鄉所需要的我相信每一個委員都不會去反對所以在這個過程補充 你知道嗎這個50億對我們來說"},{"start":4690.06,"end":4691.783,"text":"完完全全不夠啊尤其在正當有開設平衛有位官司"},{"start":4700.663,"end":4703.084,"text":"的政府已經準備好了 但是有的行政委員會 行政委員會不知道但是對地 平常時的管治長很認真 要看中央的政策 要清楚的時候"},{"start":4722.193,"end":4726.034,"text":"但是我們沒有認真的人,這樣也不對因為像嘉義市,嘉義市他就知道說這要怎麼建造,要怎麼做是怎麼分析,會再補充一次因為有的不太了解,有的想說應該要我家三十年,要我去台北命要我叫什麼人來讓我鑑定"},{"start":4752.063,"end":4757.365,"text":"因為說實在的 部長 我們等於這裡的50億是沒有幾千噸的我們這種的不是以入進展的是要把這些金額流出 金處理好 如果有足夠的公益"},{"start":4775.316,"end":4782.319,"text":"可以當作電腿,我們是在這時候才會說補助於一棟九百六十萬耶,沒錯,我剛才也聽到了你的解說,你說的因為很多輩子,覺得說看得到吃不得的,會選擇"},{"start":4800.538,"end":4806.503,"text":"因為像今天已經說明了百姓都知道為什麼他就是要當時要去治療給他們要補是要去工作 要給利用 還是要給貸款是不是不知道"},{"start":4820.894,"end":4835.377,"text":"所以說保證 本席跟你說的就是你這種政策 很好 但是不可以讓百姓覺得說我會中 吃不中這樣就不好啊來 市長 郭敦市長你有沒有要補充什麼 謝謝委員"},{"start":4845.465,"end":4854.495,"text":"其實每個縣市政府 我們從去年開始招募沒有啦 我剛才跟你說的問題 當時可以讓他們使用啦剛才補充意見說五位 是要提供給什麼人我給你回答啦"},{"start":4863.285,"end":4870.81,"text":"剛才我講到五位要開始申請 每一個縣市政府所基建的地方都已經出了加以持就是它的督發局但是我剛才講到督發局沒有辦法去輔導所以我們要求所有的縣市政府的輔導團隊事業隊陣型要成立"},{"start":4884.56,"end":4891.224,"text":"年後拜託人家輔導團隊跟東京政府去某一個地方再跟社民會說清楚這樣我們這個廠的資料才不會有重疊年後委員會說得對 總共五十億五十億是立法院給鄉鎮的餘生不是說我們欠太多你就是給我們餘生三年後 如果這個成效不錯當然我們會繼續申請希望大院可以支持"},{"start":4914.76,"end":4923.707,"text":"我就是跟補廠說,就是大家都很漂亮的,但是現在我最擔心的就是有的被子都後悔了就是說,如果我們有跟主管單位有協議,我們就有辦法去申請如果跟主管單位沒有協議,我們就賠不了啦所以這種的,不要有這個聲音,所以我願望"},{"start":4941.261,"end":4950.784,"text":"我們的錢是開的 覺得應該申請的只要幾個禮拜的費用會申請 沒錯跟金正恩市長最近有發生一件問題因為我這陣子的時間已經到了 覺得不要人擔心太多時間 跟我的資料給你一星期後"},{"start":4968.916,"end":4969.336,"text":"謝謝主席,我們先請部長來請劉部長"},{"start":4997.288,"end":5017.118,"text":"好部長好我這邊也要先來再次爭取啦因為其實去年十月我們幾個民進黨的委員在內政委員會裡面都有共同提了一個提案就是這個深夜的圍牢津貼當時是除了這個駐外的之外我們也認為被勤的同仁也同樣辛苦所以也應該要納入這個範圍"},{"start":5019.099,"end":5040.416,"text":"那當時其實署長有說有回去跟人總溝通跟各縣市溝通那是不是請部長署長跟我們說明一下目前溝通的進度當然我要先肯定啦現在錦霄的這個勤務佳績都已經正式核定了嘛那其實是一個很棒的開始那我認為接下來其實還有我們可以做的更多的地方"},{"start":5041.437,"end":5058.877,"text":"對 謝謝委員 就是我們在上個會期對於生育未來家屬對於值班或備請就是駐地內的來做一個提升那我們部裡面的這個整個的這個政策是同意的所以我們在去年的11月就報到"},{"start":5059.958,"end":5080.663,"text":"行政院去了那這個案就是在現在人總在1月19號那人總我們也去做溝通那目前溝通的狀況我們當然就是部裡面的這幾個單位他認為各單位的這個性質也不太相同那另外他這個人總也認為說這個海巡也要納進來所以人總在1月19號還給各相當各"},{"start":5086.825,"end":5098.437,"text":"這個相關單位在這個相關的這個資料在做確診研究當中好所以其實目前算是有一點進展有進展有進展好太好了所以人種其實大致上方向也是同意的"},{"start":5099.333,"end":5116.84,"text":"人總現在還在跟各單位在做了解全盤的這個整個的一個狀況的一個資料的一個了解那現在除了我們這個單位之外海巡也要比較來做辦理所以整個案子還在嚴厲當中"},{"start":5118.2,"end":5142.726,"text":"好那我在這邊期待好消息啦好謝謝我們署長持續跟人總溝通當然如果未來海巡演納進來是最好是好謝謝署長那再來請教部長喔因為其實今天自由時報的頭版就是說我們要來補助地方的防災協作中心那包括這個全台有365處的防災協作中心每一處可以補助110萬"},{"start":5144.326,"end":5162.642,"text":"那這個村裡的相關的村裡處的空間呢可以補助15萬那可不可以說明一下這樣的補助的內容是什麼因為我認為這個國土韌性當然很重要那補助的內容讓我們地方的村里長第一時間知道我相信地方的村里長都會馬上來申請補助讓自己的這個空間變成是最好的防災空間"},{"start":5168.527,"end":5185.041,"text":"是謝謝委員長期以來對於消防尤其是我們這個所謂的防災的部分非常的關心我們的主要的目的就是希望說未來的災防的救災救護的工作不是集中在這個縣市或者是中央政府而是地方都要一起"},{"start":5185.581,"end":5200.553,"text":"所以我們提出了這個防災協作中心是要下放到鄉鎮公所或者是村裡面那這個部分我們在去年的時候消防署已經跟各地的消防局到各地的這個村裡做一下說明跟溝通也就是我們補助的110萬已經沒有太大的問題那包括偏鄉地區都算在內那同時15萬的部分也是一樣我們碰到大型碰到天災的時候呢村裡辦公室或是鄉鎮公所可以馬上來運用"},{"start":5213.704,"end":5226.373,"text":"省得要再調派這些所謂的要支援救災救護的設施會有時間上的壓力那現在執行的情形我請蕭署長跟您做個簡單的說明好 謝謝也拜託署長說明一下這個110萬是用在哪裡這15萬用在哪裡"},{"start":5228.755,"end":5252.98,"text":"好 感謝委員關心很感謝立法院去年通過特別預算所以每個鄉鎮市區會有110萬每個村裡會有25萬的經費那這個部分我們也分別訂定防災協助中心的維生設備的計畫還有補助原則跟必要的項目這個部分都已經協調確認過"},{"start":5254.58,"end":5265.985,"text":"那在協助中心的部分呢會在今年會執行完畢那村裡的部分會在明年來執行就分兩年度來執行所以我想知道的是可不可以舉例一些什麼樣的項目什麼樣的設施什麼樣的空間譬如說照明燈廣播設備還有我們那個電源的裝備設備"},{"start":5275.088,"end":5298.116,"text":"這些設備都是我們在考慮使用的地方當然濾水設備也是我們考慮的我們已經把這個清車列出來所以這樣的這個清單你們都有列出來我們列出來也都有給村里長我們會跟已經跟縣市協調好縣市跟鄉鄰鄉鎮市公所跟村里長這個清單要麻煩清楚然後也讓地方是社區的第一線都是知道的"},{"start":5298.536,"end":5308.986,"text":"好謝謝署長因為時間的關係那我這邊有一個還有兩分鐘太好了那我最後一樣我請教一下那個警政署好謝謝"},{"start":5311.257,"end":5328.388,"text":"部長也可以先請回座最後我要來請教一下最近一個盜刷的案子因為前幾天有一個盜刷的報導他是說這個竊盜集團專門鎖定人潮密集的地方然後他會偷走民眾的皮夾之後呢直接拿出他們在海外買回來的刷卡機現場實體刷卡"},{"start":5330.589,"end":5358.639,"text":"那刷出來之後因為它是實體卡的交易所以銀行端那邊比較難第一時間察覺所以倒刷是常常成功的那有一個民眾他就是在北捷被偷了錢包之後半小時內信用卡的顯示的地址是在沙烏地阿拉伯實體過卡然後就瞬間被刷了十幾萬那這種其實這樣的倒刷的形態也逐漸出現我在這邊想要建議因為他們這種刷卡機其實就是直接從海外買回來嘛"},{"start":5359.699,"end":5377.608,"text":"那最近其實經濟部有提出兩個必須要納入進口管理就是網路電話的交換機跟網路電話的閘道機他們必須要納入進口管理就是NCC那邊要先審查那我也認為海外買進來的這種刷卡機是不是也應該納入管理這邊建議署長"},{"start":5379.349,"end":5398.763,"text":"我想這次對於這個倒刷這次境外的這個倒刷應該有透過這個實體的這個工具實體卡沒錯那這個部分我們還在追查當中那我個人的建議就是對於那個有關電外的閘道這個已經做管制了那這個倒刷的這個設備當然也是要做管制也能夠杜絕這樣的類似海外的這樣的一個倒刷的狀況"},{"start":5407.729,"end":5417.174,"text":"那另外我們現在普遍發現到的倒刷那當然我要特別在這種場合就是要跟全國民眾做一個就是這個要讓你提供卡號還有這些這個這個這個就是還有這些那個"},{"start":5429.773,"end":5437.726,"text":"卡號之外還有這些相關的這個號碼就是驗證號碼這個都不能提供這個就是國內倒刷最基本的一個狀況這個其實倒刷其實也有這樣的一個依據你要把你的這個"},{"start":5445.6,"end":5471.45,"text":"要你的這個存者你的這個信用卡的這個東西的卡號還有驗證碼相關的使用期限的這個時間提供給別人就等於就是說你把錢提供給別人要去做提領就等於是你自己要提領所以這個一定要特別利用這個場合來做一個宣導所以我在這邊針對這種新型態的這種盜刷犯罪我是具體建議署長你們就回去跟關務署討論就像經濟部他們管制網路電話交換機那樣"},{"start":5475.311,"end":5483.54,"text":"直接大陸進口管理沒問題沒問題 這個我們來協助處理好 謝謝來 謝謝黃婕委員接下來我們請張宏祿委員進行詢答謝謝來 我先請部長來 有請劉部長"},{"start":5504.495,"end":5520.043,"text":"部長我想請教一下我們內政部現在對比如說服務30年以上的里長然後全國基優的里長這些是不是從現在開始就沒有公開的頒獎公開的給他們一個一個儀式這樣子給他們我們今年並沒有辦"},{"start":5530.788,"end":5531.734,"text":"為什麼?你們的考量是什麼?"},{"start":5535.017,"end":5563.641,"text":"因為去年修了這個民態自己條例之後有規定那個基歐的村里長由這個內政部訂立辦法相關的辦法裡面已經有規定這些村里長由地方來做表揚所以這個相關的一個機制已經存在但他是全國的是你們內政部認可的是對不對是對啊那為什麼那你既然內政部認可的那你為什麼沒有公開表揚"},{"start":5566.197,"end":5593.345,"text":"因為現在其實有其他相關的一個規定什麼規定哪一個規定說不頒獎了不公開表揚了一般來講這是有地方政府多數的地方政府也有表揚地方政府本來就有了嘛本來就是相公署也有縣市也有嘛然後最高是內政部嘛他得到是內政部最高的嘛"},{"start":5594.165,"end":5620.183,"text":"對不對我只問你啊你們為什麼不公開表揚哪一個法令說現在開始不公開表揚了其實表揚不免法律的一個對啊所以你剛剛跟我講什麼那我就覺得很奇怪啊對我們新訂的一個不是啦你不要跟我繞圈子啦"},{"start":5621.631,"end":5645.924,"text":"為什麼不表揚?其實你表揚花不了你多少時間也沒有花多少錢這個隊有了服務30年了好不容易他拚到得到全國內政部最高的認可你們就兩個小時的時間給他一輩子的榮耀對不對你們是不是要思考一下要不要繼續"},{"start":5647.689,"end":5671.678,"text":"這個我們可以來做研議做研議齁?這個很簡單,兩個禮拜之後你就可以研議好了吧?因為也涉及到相關地方自治還有...兩個禮拜的時間夠不夠啦?是,可以可以嘛,那這樣就好了嘛,好不好?不然你先坐啦,你先回去坐那再來,那個消防署長"},{"start":5675.499,"end":5690.453,"text":"我們今天看到這個報紙或什麼剛有委員問那我們全社會安全任性我想直接請教一下村里長的部分你們有哪些物資是在村里長那邊"},{"start":5692.177,"end":5719.852,"text":"感謝委員垂詢我們小紅樹裡面也有這方面的敘述那我們在這...找去書也是你們笑我才笑太緊張太緊張那我們裡面有包括儲物、資訊、個人防護裝備、避難射龍設備跟濾水那個我們都看到啦我們未來要到村里長的哪些物資明確的有哪些"},{"start":5720.922,"end":5733.932,"text":"我們有列出清澈,會後再提供給委員你現在就不能簡單舉例喔對,比如說哨子、反觀背心、頭燈、手套還有避難帳篷、綠色設備還有我們比如說儲能電源這些都是避難的帳篷、儲能電源,對嘛這些嘛這些體積大不大"},{"start":5744.801,"end":5758.662,"text":"所以我們必須要協調有一個空間把這些物資放在那邊然後真的緊急使用的時候可以來用我很支持這個韌性這個機構我非常的支持但是你要放在村里長那邊"},{"start":5760.084,"end":5782.539,"text":"不見得放在村裡我們會找一個儲存場所哪個儲存場所?幫他找嗎?還是他自己去找?應該是來協調啦就什麼地方可以讓物資可以緊急在使用的時候可以用得到所以你現在是還沒協調好還是還不能夠這個保溫是明年的預算來執行明年的預算你今天補座就空了你今天是協助中心的設備這今年要執行我是要提醒你啊"},{"start":5790.365,"end":5808.623,"text":"這個我完全都支持但你有些這些我跟你講全台灣有多少村裡沒有李明活動中心我們7748處沒有錯不是啦有多少沒有活動中心你知道嗎這個我不清楚"},{"start":5810.666,"end":5817.133,"text":"你不知道嘛我跟你講啦以我們整個新北就以板橋來講126個里只有70個活動中心你還有很多沒有啦這些東西他要放在哪裡"},{"start":5831.309,"end":5858.734,"text":"所以這個還在協調啦所以我們要跟村裡好好的溝通找到適當的宿舍那這些物資是我要跟署長你說的在一般非都市化的地方你要找這個地方比較容易啦可能廟啦可能誰家的這個比較容易放啦但在都會區的地方寸土寸金"},{"start":5860.194,"end":5875.384,"text":"你要怎麼協調 你要去哪裡找因為我們這一次的編日預算每個村里是四五萬塊那四五萬塊我們在盤點說有哪些是必要的那這個部分再來確認說每個村里到底你愛什麼東西"},{"start":5876.525,"end":5902.093,"text":"那要放在什麼地方可能有收納場所啦這些物資儲存場所都可以來放我也給我們一些時間我知道你現在講的就是一個理想就是你一個計畫那我現在聽你這樣子的回答可能你的細部啊你的還沒規劃到那吧對我們先從今年鄉鎮施工所會做那明年度是春禮七千多的春禮明年計畫來執行對啊"},{"start":5903.914,"end":5918.484,"text":"你明年就要做了啊所以同步才執行來考慮我以我的經驗你要村里長這些有的很多地方尤其都會區他沒有地方放"},{"start":5919.344,"end":5934.676,"text":"但沒有地方放我不是說不做喔我是說你要及早因應喔你要去處理喔他沒有活動中心的人叫他放在他家喔他絕對不會答應的啦對不對他絕對不會答應的嘛所以你應該去盤點有的"},{"start":5939.459,"end":5968.11,"text":"郊區的他雖然沒有里民活動中心但他有社區活動中心對不對但那不是村里長可以去管轄的那不是他對不對這個很多東西我是要提醒你要儘早去盤點你不要到時候這筆錢然後買的東西下去結果變成到時候村里長跟你講說他沒有辦法他沒有怎樣我擔心的不是他沒有地方放"},{"start":5969.352,"end":5993.242,"text":"你這些東西是不是所有是要列冊?要不要?當然要列冊啊對嘛 當然要列冊嘛啊到時候如果少了一樣的話哇 問題勒 麻煩囉對不對?是對啊 所以你們要及早去因應這個問題啦是好 謝謝委員關心好 謝謝委員好 謝謝張宏祿委員"},{"start":5998.091,"end":6023.268,"text":"接下來我想要做一個說明基於立法院韓院長上個禮拜協商法律的結論我會尊重李貞秀女士上台發言但是行政院立場也表明得非常清楚我也尊重行政院不必回應這個會議謝謝接下來我們請李貞秀女士上台發言"},{"start":6040.583,"end":6062.456,"text":"我再重申一次基於海運長上個禮拜對於法律協商的結論我們委員會尊重李貞秀女士上台發言但我們也尊重行政院目前所有的結論行政官員可以不必尋答而且可以不必提供資料 謝謝"},{"start":6064.218,"end":6085.263,"text":"韓院長 請主席才是今天在內政委員會其實本來應該要討論民生議題顯然內政部的態度就是不關心民生只想做政治鬥爭民進黨政府根本不關心居住正義請主席做出公正才是如韓國瑜院長所指示尊重立法院已經就任的立法委員謝謝主席"},{"start":6087.622,"end":6106.04,"text":"謝謝李政修女士,我還是尊重你的發言不好意思,那個主席時間請暫停,權宜問題不能佔用我的時間,謝謝來,請你繼續發言OK,對,那所以就是有請劉部長上台,謝謝我們尊重行政院,行政院的官員可以不用上台那時間繼續暫停,謝謝,我再等"},{"start":6116.297,"end":6144.913,"text":"今天內政部代表行政部門來立法院備詢,內政部有義務要站上質詢,來接受質詢行政部門這樣的態度意義何在?是否藐視國會?請主席猜試我覺得行政立法互相尊重,所以說我們也尊重行政院,行政院官員可以不用上台所以所有的委員會也都會遇到,我們尊重李貞秀女士的發言"},{"start":6146.205,"end":6168.945,"text":"其實台灣是法治國家,國人都在看,中華民國憲法還在這邊任何一個立法委員的資格,要請依循法律判決今天假設我質疑劉旭發女士,我質疑她貪污的話,難道她今天就沒有資格任內政部部長了嗎?"},{"start":6170.379,"end":6185.014,"text":"是不是要等到法律判決 起碼我要先去提告然後等法庭三審判決定讞他的貪污罪才成立所有的官員都沒有這個法律的問題但是李貞秀女士目前的這個身份是有法律問題法律判決了嗎 主委"},{"start":6187.376,"end":6205.377,"text":"有人提到了嗎?法律判決了嗎?韓院長已經裁示我現在是合法的中華民國立法委員謝謝主席請主席保持公正我再次重申法律不能用協商的所以我們尊重李貞秀女士對,我也尊重判決,謝謝那我們是不是可以開始繼續時間"},{"start":6207.184,"end":6222.483,"text":"但是我要請劉部長先上台行政院的官員可以不用上台備選OK好我也不好意思耽誤剩下的委員的時間那我今天就來問好了啦一樣繼續時間沒有關係好謝謝李貞秀女士"},{"start":6225.936,"end":6243.251,"text":"那居住正義被所有國人關注本席要問賴清德總統選前提出社會住宅從蔡總統的12萬戶加碼至13萬戶現在只剩下4萬戶請問劉部長這算不算公然跳票"},{"start":6249.014,"end":6264.784,"text":"你們一邊盤點9.4萬戶設宅用地一邊享用土地不足蓋了也沒人住當作政策跳票的藉口盤點花了納稅人那麼多預算現在變4萬戶請告訴國人剩下的5.4萬戶要怎麼處理所以目前行政院都是沒有回應就對了"},{"start":6275.896,"end":6285.985,"text":"再來國土署署長那我有請國土署署長上台好嗎我這次重申我們尊重李貞秀女士的發言時間暫停所以要等嗎還是我繼續"},{"start":6294.271,"end":6310.727,"text":"繼續好了好謝謝這個國人都在看了希望大家用選票給出公正的回應謝謝好再來國土署署長提到不蓋社宅的理由是市區精華地近乎用盡即便興建"},{"start":6312.128,"end":6332.387,"text":"也可能因區位或需求不足而沒有人租本心要問為何不導入TOD我們台灣民進黨的創黨主席柯文哲在台北市長任內就已經有成功的案例內政部在蔡政府時期對這些工具也非常了解為何賴政府不做"},{"start":6333.482,"end":6355.394,"text":"所以這個政府一直在蔡政府時代陸配參政就任沒有任何問題到賴政府的時候行政部門全體抵觸他不喜歡的立法委員再來你們一直強調社會住宅一直強調會有社宅新辦計畫送進來但住團已經明確控訴內政部2024年8月就已經提"},{"start":6362.09,"end":6383.833,"text":"處下階段設宅新辦計畫行政院到今天都還沒有核定到底什麼時候才會核定完成所以這個也是沒有答案所以這個劉部長要回答嗎"},{"start":6387.025,"end":6396.748,"text":"OK好所以一樣劉部長任何的問題民眾的任何問題都沒有回應我們繼續請問劉部長你知道現在有多少人在等社會住宅嗎好一樣不知道是嗎那你不知道我來告訴你現在民眾登基受宅抽籤比中樂透還難"},{"start":6407.678,"end":6421.49,"text":"結果我們看到的是什麼就以林口社宅為例被媒體住戶爆料說園區裡面目前上百戶的社宅空在那邊不只少了租金收入也為園區的安全也成為園區的安全隱患"},{"start":6425.495,"end":6434.883,"text":"民眾候補已經排到了1400多號這在資源配置上顯然有重大的疏失怎麼可能一邊人民搶破頭一邊還有社宅閒置在哪請部長給國人一個理由部長一樣不回應嗎"},{"start":6446.406,"end":6467.019,"text":"請大家看看民進黨政府那個劉士芳部長有多傲慢我接下來開始叫劉士芳女士住都中心讓社宅空的不給住民眾看得到吃不到不好意思這裡可以幫我請那個住都中心的董事長花敬群董事長上台嗎我們一樣尊重行政院的態度謝謝"},{"start":6473.376,"end":6488.701,"text":"OK 好 所以大家看看這個傲慢的行政團隊 謝謝任何未來如果他不喜歡的立法委員這個比罷免好用啊好 我們繼續住都中心讓社宅空的不給住民眾看得到吃不到"},{"start":6489.581,"end":6503.175,"text":"證明了駐都中心管理成效不彰然而駐都中心的人事費用連年增加從114到115四年間已經暴增超過兩倍大家可以看那個圖表"},{"start":6505.208,"end":6519.907,"text":"四年間社宅不蓋 可是人事費用暴增兩倍聽到了很多傳言變成 而且人員流動率是異常的頻繁聽說是變成 所以現在駐都中心少蓋社宅"},{"start":6520.908,"end":6536.104,"text":"每年的薪水獎金還可以不斷加碼所以我就要請問內政部部長跟駐都中心的董事長請問現在駐都中心已經變成坐領甘心的酬庸中心了嗎?這要回應一下嗎?國人很想知道"},{"start":6542.003,"end":6560.375,"text":"最後社會住宅政策是重大的民生議題社宅新辦不能選前開支票選後騙選票就例如賴總統去看陸配的店家一樣但是他的行政團隊今天在國會抵制陸配委員"},{"start":6562.213,"end":6580.385,"text":"本席要求第一競速核定新一波社宅興建計畫賴總統任期已經過了兩年多還在空轉除了大罷免大家對賴政府還有任何印象嗎再來打陸配這是可以大概新聞可以超過大罷免了OK"},{"start":6582.062,"end":6599.304,"text":"就是第一號本席要求競速核定新一波社宅興建計劃賴總統的任期已經過了兩年多還在空轉請內政部提出時程報告兩個禮拜內提交給內政委員會的所有委員所以這樣就表示如果劉部長不回應表示兩個禮拜沒有問題"},{"start":6602.503,"end":6629.239,"text":"好再來第二請內政部協同相關單位立刻盤點閒置社宅數量了解閒置原因提出相對政策將書面報告於三個禮拜內送來給內政委員會第三請駐都中心解釋人事支出四年暴增兩倍的理由一個禮拜內以書面報告書面資料送交內政委員會謝謝主席"},{"start":6637.084,"end":6659.566,"text":"我要請問那個吃台灣米喝台灣水長大的民進黨高官請記得你是中華民國的內政部部長不是民進黨的內政部部長你的薪水也是中華民國所有納稅人的薪水而不是民進黨發給你薪水也並不是你的台灣國發給你薪水請尊重中華民國憲法謝謝謝謝李貞秀女士的發言"},{"start":6664.656,"end":6693.202,"text":"接下來我們請丁薛忠委員發言報告委員會丁薛忠委員發言之後我們會休息五分鐘那也可以請內政部等一下在休息的時間可以針對民眾的提問如果有不正確的地方可以對社會做出一些解釋謝謝來請丁薛忠委員詢答謝謝真的我們是希望說"},{"start":6694.761,"end":6710.691,"text":"要有光榮的心,政府真的要有多元化社會的理想好來我請國土署蔡署長來請蔡署長"},{"start":6716.809,"end":6721.832,"text":"署長好 署長我們現在分離關在推動這個麥寮綠色產業加值園區 都市界已經管理更緊 現在才有定數上來 我們來到委員會的選擇這個案子年九月上到中央 地方大家都非常期待 希望可以比較快完成 將有釋定我們現在選擇的進度到達"},{"start":6742.819,"end":6754.383,"text":"向委員報告 因為這次19年到現在國土署才開始召開那個都市教育委員會裡面的小組審查 因為裡面的案裡面那些相關的問題很多所以一個一個 要再去到地方確定一些"},{"start":6758.459,"end":6764,"text":"要變更的一些必要性等等所以這個問題地方政府過一段時間應該會再審過審過以後我們會再加速把這個案子撒去稍後稍後如果過就去到党委會這樣我們就來加速辦理這關於說稍後如果這個案子審起來我們就速度要加快地方都很期待另外一個案子就是我們大廣東柏基山岩湖這個案子也審過我們來党委員會的選擇"},{"start":6786.544,"end":6788.506,"text":"在這裡請問市長 國情的進度是怎樣?國情有在裡面開過一次會 後這個案有開過一次會 我們就有這個意見 再做一些修正後面我們有跟我們的一些同仁 跟我們的委員會加速來去辦理"},{"start":6806.748,"end":6812.551,"text":"三峽分區的生命,對地方的三峽非常強壯,能夠促進零卡索增加,促進到就業機會,所以這個國分可能要拜託國土署,我們加快照顧,再跟我們道上講一下。再來,我請我們県政署張署長,"},{"start":6832.321,"end":6842.286,"text":"蔡署長你再請回座謝謝署長好新年快樂新年快樂我們行政議定國會我們有算過我們三個開始盡情加急調整生肖我們檢察棟林的這個課程其實短期久我直接要請問說我們這個條件的內容到底是什麼"},{"start":6856.757,"end":6871.685,"text":"這個調整有能力的部分就是全國的經濟價值六多的部分台北市掉薪白加本來一倍加到1.3倍另外四多對於0.7個加到一倍"},{"start":6872.125,"end":6897.559,"text":"那台灣縣的各警察局就是提升到0.4倍我們府裡面也是一樣0.4那對於經營的三維車運可以來實施那現在我有交代我們府裡面的局長就把管理部報告因為我們那個理事會經營又夠希望就是管理黨以後到管理委員會去合併那可以追溯到3.6以後就可以來發放"},{"start":6899.514,"end":6899.695,"text":"這個國分,這個公然"},{"start":6903.82,"end":6932.866,"text":"有增加這個增加教育補助嗎?教育補助沒有,這是省錢加值這就是,這是勤務的繁重加值啦教育補助是沒有關係的?平時專業大概增加一千九百四十我們的平時的保温就是本來是零點六點到零點八,到零點二我們說零點幾的,定於換算做授意就是差不多三千幾到三千左右啦"},{"start":6933.769,"end":6937.031,"text":"阿咪哥的政綱,三千以下三千多左右好,現在第二問題就是像我們這種婚姻關係、婚姻直辭事的關係這次新政綱的情侶、觀眾、家族、相機跟零電視是這個"},{"start":6954.021,"end":6961.167,"text":"財力量是十幾斤才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才有才"},{"start":6981.704,"end":7005.076,"text":"特別的想法目前我們婚姻經濟教育這個議程的理事會是有交的?理事會有交有交有交有交所以我們實際有辦法不可以再另外再加一筆錢來支付這個錢不用再另外不用不用因為這個理事會用來支付這一筆的那個房仲傑是夠的我們有核算過啦"},{"start":7005.876,"end":7010.058,"text":"好 感謝署長 現在就是基層員警我們正在進行質詢的過分 警察是一個登記存在性的危險問題 高官罪有比較多高官罪最多 像現在官員要圍牢今天11個月"},{"start":7030.526,"end":7039.549,"text":"做加班費嘛 我們的加班費的上限可以到一萬九千塊一萬九千塊可以到一萬九千我們這個過分性可以再調整一下我們來 剛才議員 這我們再來演繹看完啦對啦 今天議員 真的是非常辛苦我們每一天在記者 我們每次都看得到我們每次都看得到 希望說他們可以"},{"start":7056.835,"end":7059.118,"text":"可以讓我們中央政府來重視他們的生活感謝委員謝謝委員我請我們的消防署長"},{"start":7073.407,"end":7080.892,"text":"市長好 新年快樂我們這次行政院調整了警察的一些法律但是我們的消防領域怎麼會作法納入?有已經做了所以同樣的標準 警察跟消防 同樣的標準是不是有關心?"},{"start":7103.667,"end":7108.715,"text":"他們有非常大的信心就是我們中央跟地方都全力來支持他們讓他們對著這個地安問題救災問題他們都可以全力以赴來替我們地方解決這些問題"},{"start":7117.591,"end":7129.3,"text":"所以我們現在有重視到他們的辛苦有來自他們的福利來增加這也是我們非常期待非常高興的一個結果再過一陣子我們警政署、消防署我們就加油還有一個海巡署海巡署也非常辛苦也非常辛苦我們還是要跟他們到處去"},{"start":7145.595,"end":7156.983,"text":"要處理巡邏的海巡署,他們經常做巡邏的業務,但是他們的服務情緒可能就有差,這個國分可能要相關的,怎麼調整給他一樣,這個國分照顧好,結束"},{"start":7351.732,"end":7353.823,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":7448.814,"end":7450.657,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅"},{"start":7580.848,"end":7581.53,"text":"我們都要在一起"},{"start":7611.972,"end":7616.796,"text":"來,我們繼續再來幾位,我們請李柏毅、趙薇,出席謝謝美會主席請劉世芳部長請保重"},{"start":7641.856,"end":7655.162,"text":"來,周圍好來,我們休館兩人間"},{"start":7672.312,"end":7672.972,"text":"好抱歉委員會抱歉"},{"start":7703.406,"end":7722.055,"text":"我的個人的看法那我也認為還是要講一下各黨派的立法委員還有全國的公職人員包含劉部長在內我們都應該要遵守國籍法只有單一國籍在還沒有放棄就就職的情況下"},{"start":7726.516,"end":7754.359,"text":"我認為剛才的李貞秀女士她在韓國瑜院長的裁定裡面在我的看法是因解職未解職那所以我會尊重行政院一貫的態度讓今天內政部還有所屬的官員可以不用上台詢答剛我的意思是這樣子那我來說明一下立法委員他在質詢台"},{"start":7756.021,"end":7759.232,"text":"跟他下了諮詢台以後可以做的事情"},{"start":7760.66,"end":7789.385,"text":"他剛剛可以在執行台裡面他是質疑設宅政策質疑設宅數量質疑居住正義下了台之後他可以做什麼我跟各位說明內政部可以做什麼我也請劉部長回應來劉部長請問我們的關鍵基礎設施的防護包含警政署裡面保二總隊對於電廠水廠通訊中心科學園區等等這些保護方案有沒有可能"},{"start":7790.734,"end":7818.109,"text":"有國安的疑慮的問題如果這個資料提供給疑似有中國籍的人士的話他會涉及什麼依照中華人民共和國的情報法他們的任何公民都應該要配合情報工作喔他們都可以跨海通緝我們的立法委員沈伯陽請問"},{"start":7820.543,"end":7834.642,"text":"如果剛才有立委他在下了質詢台之後他表面上他是在問這個社宅政策但是他一直叫你去辦公室問這個關鍵75設施的相關的這些內容來署長你來回應好了"},{"start":7839.927,"end":7850.544,"text":"來一張 謝謝委員你能給嗎那這個關鍵詩都是機密的這個相關的這個資料那如果有簽署到會赦免當然是不能給好 謝謝署長 來 部長"},{"start":7854.297,"end":7869.088,"text":"謝謝委員的指教我還是要重申李貞秀女士她有國籍法的疑義其實在立法院的院長在協商的時候也提到在相關事實查明之前以及司法最終判決之前"},{"start":7870.449,"end":7888.037,"text":"其實對於他的職權行使是予以尊重那我要跟各位報告我們的中華民國的政府官員是依法行政依這個法第一個國籍法的主管機關就是在內政部當我們對於有一個立法委員"},{"start":7889.238,"end":7917.633,"text":"他有國籍法疑義的時候當然要回到國籍法來處理而且我們已經多次重申到目前為止從李貞秀女士到職前的前一天都沒有收到任何官方的放棄中華人民共和國的資料就表示李貞秀女士要對外回答她是不是否認她是中國人而且剛剛李博義朝委提個非常清楚"},{"start":7918.813,"end":7935.111,"text":"雙重國籍的人擔任公職基於公務人員跟國家是一個特別緊密的忠誠跟信任關係在內政部所屬的不是只有警政署包括我們的甚至國土署或者是包括我們的消防署"},{"start":7935.692,"end":7956.083,"text":"都有機密的文件跟機密的預算我想李委員非常清楚我們在去年啊在內政委員會也曾經審查機密預算那在審查機密預算裡面所提供的任何資訊資料設備等等這些公文書都是需要立法委員來保密的"},{"start":7956.363,"end":7976.312,"text":"而不是立法委員的助理所以我們基於對國家的忠誠度而且基於我們公務人員要依法行政的立場所以對於李貞秀女士的所知或者是質詢或是相關類似向立法委員的一個資料的提供呢愛難照辦"},{"start":7977.432,"end":8005.237,"text":"我再說明一下加強一下除了內政部大家看到內政委員會表面上都是講社宅啦那其實內政部包含全民防衛民防體系警政署的關鍵基礎設施的防衛還有警政署的警政跟反恐的情資還有移民署的國境管理還有生物識別還有國土署的地級以及敏感圖資我請問有哪一項是中共不想要的"},{"start":8006.104,"end":8034.453,"text":"每一項他都想要啊那你在他的框架裡面拿到這一些這還只是內政委員會喔各位可以接受如果在國防委員會外交委員會更多的這些機密請問國人可以接受嗎我是完全不能接受再者幫我秀一下他在就職相關規定裡面我形容一下那個民政司長在嗎"},{"start":8036.963,"end":8062.403,"text":"來,市長我請問一下我們現在的婚姻是登記制還是公開宴客制?護證師,對不起請問一下我們現在的婚姻制度是公開宴客、公開儀式還是要登記?報告委員是登記制韓院長的才智就是公開儀式制啦他說李女士已經就職了,宣誓就職了"},{"start":8063.783,"end":8083.268,"text":"但是所以我們尊重韓院長尊重他的這個行使的權益他在立法院我們這個國籍法的相關規定的回覆書裡面他勾的是他沒有取得外國籍這偽造文書第二個我形容的是怎樣"},{"start":8085.748,"end":8111.773,"text":"假設一對情侶他已經公開宴客辦了三桌親友都有來他們聲稱他們已經是夫妻了去到戶政事務所發現沒有你現在還沒有離婚這樣怎麼辦所以我們對於公職人員還有民意代表我們的就職真的是比婚姻制度還要寬鬆"},{"start":8114.023,"end":8128.37,"text":"憑良心的啦用灰就可以啦所以我是反對這種做法就是韓院長認為公開宣示過他就是立法委員我反對因為他沒有辦法合法登記為台灣的立法委員部長你可以回應一下"},{"start":8134.288,"end":8152.778,"text":"非常謝謝委員所提供的資料確實也是這樣的資料現在內政部也發函請立法院的秘書長可以把李貞秀女士是否有勾本人於就任第11屆立法委員時未取得外國國籍這人事處長有證實"},{"start":8154.959,"end":8167.786,"text":"對,但是我們需要有書面的部分那如果是書面的部分的話,那就表示說他可能是偽造文書那如果是公務員偽造文書的話,在台灣是刑法要入罪的好,謝謝部長,謝謝謝謝,我們感謝李博義、趙偉就選大家高精素美高精素美,高精素美"},{"start":8187.092,"end":8198.438,"text":"高清信的委員敢不敢說來,不在,再來羅民財的委員好,來,羅民財,羅民財,羅民財不在我們要問五分鐘,謝謝"},{"start":8449.925,"end":8474.185,"text":"謝謝接下來我們請鄭正前委員上台詢答謝謝謝主席我想請一下劉世芳部長有請劉部長鄭委員好部長好在上個會期的時候其實在上個會期大概"},{"start":8476.295,"end":8496.155,"text":"1月19號的時候我有質詢過一件事情就是針對於因為內政部從2021年開始那個當時花次長內政部的次長花次長他就曾經表明就是未來興建的社會住宅要同時符合綠建築、智慧建築還有耐震三大標章"},{"start":8497.516,"end":8517.326,"text":"同時在注意中心的施工規範及施工和材料管理標準在09341鋪地專第2.1.3也明文寫著地專的形式其等級應符合設計圖說、濾件材及環保標章並應符合CNS9737及統包需求說明書之規定"},{"start":8523.351,"end":8524.514,"text":"我剛剛講的部分應該都沒有問題吧"},{"start":8529.329,"end":8551.156,"text":"都沒有問題你講一下謝謝委員的關切不要指點頭啦我剛剛那些部分都沒有問題吧沒有問題那我當時的時候有特別提到了就是有關於人無安居社會住宅的問題因為我們收到了一些檢舉就說他們說"},{"start":8553.757,"end":8576.448,"text":"人武IMG的工業現場上面堆了很多越南製的瓷磚沒有綠建材的標章也沒有納入綠建材資料庫沒有環保標章也沒有綠建材的證書針對這個部分我跟劉部長這邊先重新回顧一下因為在"},{"start":8579.376,"end":8593.131,"text":"今年的1月19號我們的委員會當中的時候當時花董事長是直接表示在一個禮拜之內要把這個案子"},{"start":8594.292,"end":8609.265,"text":"仁武安居社宅的統包需求說明書還有持專相關材料送審案核准的文件還有現場實際使用建材的清澈還有綠建材積分表跟審查的報告要一個禮拜之內給我"},{"start":8610.106,"end":8627.958,"text":"那當時你也回答的說沒有問題當然一個禮拜之內一定可以給本席的資料那因為本席也認為這個不是現有的資料要一個禮拜提供我覺得應該綽綽有餘所以我也非常相信就是花董事長這邊的一個執行力結果我們到今天為止的時候"},{"start":8629.159,"end":8655.765,"text":"沒有任何的資料回來我們主動去電住都中心住都中心說他們已經準備好了是國土署跟內政部這邊卡到我們就追了國土署國土署就說是住都中心這邊還沒有把東西弄完整送出來我想請教一下劉世芳部長因為住都中心跟國土署都是你這邊的相關的單位"},{"start":8657.765,"end":8685.096,"text":"那我在想說光是一個這樣提供資料的一個事情然後花董事長也表示一週內綽綽有餘可以提供出來結果到現在已經49天了都還沒有送進來我們打電話去也是你推我我推你大家互推可不可以請部長回答一下這件事情然後什麼時候要給本席報告委員我想到我這邊來卡關是完全沒有的事情"},{"start":8685.876,"end":8703.888,"text":"那如果說這個部分牽涉到弊案的話不是真的綠建材我們當然會馬上來辦理但是您是不是給這個花董事長跟您稍微解釋一下就是這怎麼一回事一點點時間就好了好嗎好謝謝委員關心我想這一些這個案場綠建築"},{"start":8706.589,"end":8724.697,"text":"綠建材要到六成以上這個是符合規定那那個瓷磚確實是越南製但是他確實也有送國家的綠建材的審查也都是符合國家的標準也都通過好啦 那你先回到標準都有送審也都通過你就把資料給我就好啦"},{"start":8725.257,"end":8752.078,"text":"結果一個禮拜不給我們去店的時候你們說是國土署卡說是內政部這邊卡我們打到國土署去國土署說你們這邊沒有準備好資料那到底是怎麼一回事部長你說你這邊不會卡我絕對相信這麼小的事情不需要你這邊來卡可是問題是提供資料這麼一個簡單的事情的時候住地中心跟國土署這邊跟內政部這邊就可以推來推去我們到現在都還沒有拿到資料那"},{"start":8752.859,"end":8771.753,"text":"董事長你這邊說他所有的資料都符合所以我們用的這些資料你一份都沒有送來啊各位報告啊其實同仁感勝的地方關心的地方就是說他可能是屬於廠商內部的資料那所以說其實我們都有資料我們也確定他是符合規定的資料但是他涉及到"},{"start":8772.153,"end":8794.665,"text":"你們就口頭上說你們有資料我們怎麼能夠完全理解怎麼來不去懷疑說是不是駐多在包庇特定的廠商所以光是一個這樣子簡單的資料提供你們都可以不斷的推然後之前我們跟所有的部會要資料的時候如果說他們一個禮拜承諾的時間沒有了他們都會先來打電話來說什麼樣的原因結果"},{"start":8795.405,"end":8804.677,"text":"都沒有打電話內政部也沒有任何單位打電話我們打電話去追你們就推來推去部長請好好處理這件事情主席站起來了你們這邊"},{"start":8806.869,"end":8827.942,"text":"如果覺得說他們完全合法合規那就把資料提供出來我們檢視一下沒有問題就拍拍手就結束了結果你們不給資料我們不得不懷疑是不是住宅中心特定的包庇特定的弊案不讓這事情曝光政委員我想是這樣子除了牽涉到個人資料保護法的話我們一定會馬上提供好嗎"},{"start":8828.823,"end":8837.305,"text":"好,我們就會持續追這個事情,請不要互推,部長請編一下這件事情,不要讓下面的人互推好不好?這個會不會告訴我的答案?好的,謝謝好,謝謝,請內政部盡速提供,謝謝鄭委員接下來我們請登記發言的陳培瑜委員,謝謝對不起,我先把前面的唸一下"},{"start":8854.817,"end":8881.895,"text":"來 邱志維委員 邱志維委員 邱志維委員不在我們請邱毅英委員 邱毅英委員 邱毅英委員不在我們請林柱英委員 林柱英委員 林柱英委員不在我們請羅志強委員 羅志強委員 羅志強委員不在我們請陳培宇委員上台詢答 謝謝主席辛苦了 我們以後都學會要念三次 好 謝謝我們要請內政部長 謝謝"},{"start":8886.793,"end":8900.15,"text":"陳委員好部長有一個難題我們共同來討論但我認為今天其實應該站在我對面的是韓國瑜院長因為上一個禮拜我們針對李珍秀女士的就職的事情我們請韓院長做出相關的決議"},{"start":8901.872,"end":8928.505,"text":"在上個會期的時候結果呢他不願意就事實查明的部分韓院長跟秘書處都沒有動作那非常荒謬的是我們民進黨團從上個會期提案到現在韓國瑜院長竟然就法律事實查明的部分卸責然後拖延結果呢到這個會期更荒謬的是召開黨團協商那所有的法律人都告訴我們你們立法委員只能立法你們沒有資格解釋法律"},{"start":8929.125,"end":8953.167,"text":"結果韓國院長用黨團協商當然是不會有共識結果他就說待事實查明跟司法案件出爐之後再行處理可是我想要跟部長討論一件事情假設現在根據早上召委的宣布部長們可以不用回答李貞秀女士的所有問題可是也可以不用提供資料對不對"},{"start":8955.233,"end":8978.687,"text":"目前現在這樣的做法可能只會落在內政委會因為目前李貞秀她是內政委會的成員之一可是我要問假設韓國瑜院長他決定跟李貞秀站在一起然後他用理法院長的高度對各位行政機關的首長們下達一個命令說你們必須要履行答詢的義務跟提供資料的義務請問部長我們怎麼辦"},{"start":8980.628,"end":9005.572,"text":"報告委員我想這個部分在院長的高度我想他有他的想法但是中華民國所有的政府官員都是依法行政所以在內政委員會尤其內政部來講我們是國籍法的主管機關在現在李貞秀女士還沒有告訴我們她放棄中華人民共和國的申請文件之前這已經非常清楚"},{"start":9006.152,"end":9032.147,"text":"包括他提供給立法院人事處的資料我們現在也希望立法院可以告訴我們是什麼時候提供的是否有讓公務人員偽造公文書的嫌疑啊那有這樣子的疑慮還沒有解釋清楚之前或是釐清之前內政部所有的官員大概就不會以李貞秀女士現在是一個合法合規的中華民國立法委員來提供相關的規範上面應該給的公文書"},{"start":9034.588,"end":9051.954,"text":"部長的態度非常的明確而且說法也非常的清楚我希望韓國瑜立法院長不要到時候要跟李哲秀要跟民眾黨站在一起為虎作倉到時候要用院長的高度去壓迫我們所有行政官員我就必須要再透過今天的質詢跟韓國瑜"},{"start":9054.056,"end":9068.014,"text":"說清楚講明白我要公開呼籲韓國瑜院長同時我要跟部長回應您剛剛所說的一件事情我們辦公室呢要求韓國瑜院長呢必須要把李徵授報到就職的時候他所填寫的那一張雙重國籍的問題"},{"start":9069.796,"end":9091.133,"text":"希望他可以交出來結果到目前為止呢他不願意交出來他回給我們的說法是說在3月11號院長召開的黨團協商會議中呢已經有相關的公務人員回覆委員的詢問所以他不願意交出這個書面資料我認為事實查明這件事情如果在立法院院長的高度不願意面對國人所有的懷疑跟"},{"start":9091.693,"end":9113.682,"text":"疑問我認為這是院長的問題所以我要再次強調事實查明絕對是立法院的工作他不能只是讓李貞秀公了一個謊言然後使公務人員登載不實的這個問題要讓公務人員自行承擔我當然也非常感謝部長剛剛非常堅定的態度跟相關法規的說法另外也跟部長報告另外一件事情我也想要跟您請教"},{"start":9114.562,"end":9129.341,"text":"我們現在手上有一張這個是中選會會給我們每一個立法委員報到的時候我們要尤其是不分區登記提名的時候關於國籍的申請調查表而這張調查表每一個立法委員都要交其中裡面包含"},{"start":9129.741,"end":9147.828,"text":"候選人的消極資格的要求裡面其實有提到如果你有雙重國籍的問題或者是領用大陸地區的護照或是在大陸地區設有戶籍甚至是大陸地區人民香港及澳門地區居民經過許可進入台灣非在台灣設有戶籍滿10年不得登記為候選人這個是所謂消極要件我想部長您當過立法委員非常清楚我們都會填這張單子"},{"start":9155.931,"end":9175.619,"text":"我們辦公室呢在上一個禮拜跟中選會要這個資料希望關於李貞秀的報導資料他們可以提供讓大家知道李貞秀除了在立法院欺騙公務人員之外在中選會的部分有沒有欺騙國人一樣佼佼不實的資料結果到目前為止中選會給我們的回覆是這是他本人的個資"},{"start":9177,"end":9204.259,"text":"沒有辦法公佈沒有辦法提供那我就公開的呼籲中選會我也要拜託韓國瑜院長這個部分關於機密的部分包含身份證字號啊他的居住地方啊這些關於個人的隱私我當然認為可以不要公佈可是就消極要件的部分我也想聽聽看部長您的看法因為就消極的部分把身份證號碼碼起來之後其實他到底是勾哪一個他有沒有承認他自己到底有沒有這個東西我認為這也非常的重要"},{"start":9204.927,"end":9219,"text":"包括委員中選會在一開始審查所謂的政黨不分區委員資格的時候確實有向委員所提示這個申請書那就我們側面的了解他這個申請書可能沒有簽名沒有蓋章"},{"start":9219.741,"end":9240.952,"text":"可能沒有簽名沒有蓋章但是我不敢確認因為我沒有拿到正式的公文書那如果沒有簽名沒有蓋章的狀況之下他不只是讓這個公務人員呢變成是一個登載不實同時對於提名他的民眾黨說不定他也是登載不實不是黨本身而是這個人對於黨"},{"start":9242.713,"end":9260.007,"text":"對於民眾黨所以這個部分當然就是在立法院的韓院長在當時就是說上個禮拜跟各個黨團有提到沒有達成共識有一個部分叫做又有事實及法律有待釐清之處的一點"},{"start":9260.908,"end":9281.318,"text":"第一個 呈報到立法院人事處的公文書到底有沒有完成或者是有沒有真實第二個 呈報到中選會裡面的一個不分區立法委員的申請書或者是登記書有沒有把所有的程序完成那這個呢 都是有待事實跟法律要釐清之處"},{"start":9282.879,"end":9309.057,"text":"韓國瑜院長那個部長把我要講的話講完了我就是要教韓院長你的事實查明可以做這兩件事情一是在你立法院的文件李徵秀報告的時候簽了什麼第二個他們民眾黨交給中選會的資料李徵秀到底簽了什麼寫了什麼就這兩件事實你查都不查做都不做結果就是全台灣都要等著看一個極大黑箱的立法院再次謝謝部長就法規範的堅持還有對國家忠誠的敬道責任謝謝"},{"start":9312.479,"end":9317.041,"text":"謝謝主席好 謝謝 謝謝陳培宇委員 謝謝接下來我們請吳祁銘委員詢答謝謝好 三位一位同仁請我們內政部部長"},{"start":9336.974,"end":9355.871,"text":"委員好部長好今天早上大家都為了李徵秀的事情大家都在討論那我們還是要針對我們的體制來走本席這邊還是比較關心的就是社會住宅社會住宅現在的住宅是全國統一申請登記的平台"},{"start":9356.872,"end":9373.892,"text":"這個政策非常好因為我們的社會住宅在一般的民眾的需求是非常的高尤其年輕人大家都抱著非常高的意願所以說在這個社會住宅在推動的過程中"},{"start":9374.432,"end":9375.794,"text":"我們設立與統一的申請平台有一個好處,不用在各縣市申請,因為各縣市會有疑慮,是公平性的問題"},{"start":9394.115,"end":9412.106,"text":"在我們中央第一年一定要透明化大家都會期待我什麼時候補得到那你這整個資訊透明化那個民眾他就沒這個餘力所以就是我們政府的德政"},{"start":9412.626,"end":9426.196,"text":"所以說在這件我希望說我們的社會住宅現在普遍我們的一些年輕人大家對我們這個社會住宅的推動大家都抱著非常高的期待是不是請博長來回答"},{"start":9430.105,"end":9456.523,"text":"委員全國統一申請登記平台也是我們上一次在修正住宅法的時候放到裡面去好處就是剛才委員所講的部分第一個要全國有統一的規範然後再來比較能夠有一致性同時目前是採取各個地方政府跟我們的社宅一起來做這個銜接但是地方政府的銜接確實每個地方政府會有落差"},{"start":9457.284,"end":9478.4,"text":"所以如果建置全國的統一平台的時候呢我們可以把說服資料還有攝服的資料譬如說縣市地方政府對於中低收入戶或是低收入戶他的認定資格本來都不相同但是我們把它放在統一平台裡面去的時候呢會認定他是不是符合登記社會住宅這樣的資格尤其是年輕人他說不定跨"},{"start":9479.14,"end":9495.517,"text":"縣市來申請社會住宅是有幫助的但是現在這個部分我們必須要把它能夠數位化還有跟各縣市地方政府來合作所以我們預計要在117年之前會完成這個登記平台"},{"start":9497.56,"end":9516.358,"text":"因為我們還是要加快因為這是民眾覺得公平性大家的信賴度會更高這是我們好的進程我們都要盡快去推動再來就是我們的包租貸款包租貸款我剛才問我們的董事長現在全國也有10萬戶的包租貸款這成績還是不錯"},{"start":9521.022,"end":9530.849,"text":"但是後面一些配套我們還是要要把它規劃的更為完善其實我們現在民眾很多都是因為買不出買不出"},{"start":9532.674,"end":9544.801,"text":"他就要來做出,這都屬於比較弱勢團體所以說在這個弱勢團體,我們要怎麼來說像我們這個平台來推動,讓他們可以做到比較合格的價格但是你說剛才合格的價格,我們也不能說去圖利他們很多的,大家都是整間公司來做人"},{"start":9559.65,"end":9579.838,"text":"也不能去圖利到這些房東啦我們要再想出一套的配套措施這是未來我們還要再去研究針對於我們的那個老宅延朔老宅延朔的問題其實我們在我們的新北這個都會區我們都知道那個處都三四十年了其實三四十年的處"},{"start":9582.319,"end":9589.087,"text":"很多都是需要說來做補償像說我們的過去0403這個地震這就噴射到山窟土層就發生這個圍爐的問題所以說在這個情形你說在五月份就要上路那目前的經費"},{"start":9601.883,"end":9625.61,"text":"都還沒通過那未來會不會影響 抱歉這3月5號的時候行政院的院會報告已經通過了我們現在是請 譬如說新北市他必須要有一個專業的輔導團隊能夠成立 因為要行政的人 不能說政策這麼這麼這樣到時候不會過的 說我們配人我們現在中央國土署已經有輔導團隊但是每個縣市政委也要有輔導團隊 這樣比較好處理啦"},{"start":9627.691,"end":9647.697,"text":"是 因為在我們新北 這個的老宅 它這個比例非常高每一邊的地方 就是都有很多危老的出現但是我跟委員報告一下 老宅延壽 第一項就是要經過耐震評估啦你如果是耐震評估不合格 可能也沒希望 你可以來申請 可能你要走危老"},{"start":9648.677,"end":9661.104,"text":"還是土耕比較好因為你本來的地盤有危險,你又把它修修這樣不對這樣反而危險,不符合我們老宅延壽的補貼或者是協助修繕的目標"},{"start":9662.431,"end":9685.082,"text":"因為這是一個很好的政策民族也是很期待尤其是在這種五樓的房子、四樓的房子這種以前旅行的公屋房子四樓、六樓或是六樓以下的套廳你要說整個來做都市更新還是有困難所以這個老齋元素這個部分、這個政策是非常好這個部分我們要繼續努力好 謝謝"},{"start":9694.491,"end":9707.241,"text":"謝謝吳啟明委員接下來我們請徐欣盈委員去詢答 謝謝謝謝主席 本席有請劉部長"},{"start":9715.886,"end":9732.901,"text":"首先本席想就道路改善工程跟交通執法的問題來跟您就教首先第一個我們看到114年全國路口不停讓行人違規的案件有12.6萬"},{"start":9734.802,"end":9742.677,"text":"我們看到業務報告裡面寫114年1月到9月科技執法的設備取締重大違規有119萬3659件"},{"start":9746.803,"end":9764.25,"text":"那我們絕對不是反對執法但是我們想探討的是如果道路設計本身沒有改好那人民卻一直看到更多的照相機那並不是看到更多的安全這種情況下"},{"start":9765.31,"end":9765.931,"text":"報告委員 我覺得兩組都需要"},{"start":9781.903,"end":9807.204,"text":"因為工程改善需要時間不是 工程改善需要時間但是現在每天發生車禍的時候就是還是需要有執法人員強力執法所以兩者一定要並行好 兩者並行那我們接著就來探討那我們工程的速度我們總是可以看吧我們工程補助的速度時程在哪裡這點部長我可不可以請署長跟您回應一下好 那署長簡單講我時間有限"},{"start":9810.834,"end":9818.923,"text":"跟委員報告我們每年都有依照補助計劃人行環境的一些相關的改善或者是交通路口那輔導地方政府來去做申請"},{"start":9820.407,"end":9840.308,"text":"那現在就是說如果我們這個像行人行川線沒有退縮 屁股島也還沒有設 騎樓還是高低不平那轉角的市距死角也還在那我們有再多的科技執法呢我們都會讓人民感覺到說我們把這個"},{"start":9842.39,"end":9871.056,"text":"道路的安全設計責任丟就直接丟給用路人所以我們是不是可以請中央就是說內政部這裡有沒有辦法一周內來盤點那中央對於我們地方政府譬如說我想請您盤點對新竹縣那能夠補助加速地方規劃施工的項目清單一周可以嗎跟我也報告那個個案的部分由地方政府這邊"},{"start":9871.82,"end":9899.657,"text":"我們再去協調他提出那這個部分也涉及到交通部以及地方的交通局那每個案子的狀況都不太一樣那沒關係我接著講有關我們校園安全能不能從一所學校變成一張路網也就是說我們也很感謝啦我們國土署確實都陸續有在補助我們學校周邊的道路交通安全的這個改善那這個通學步道的改善"},{"start":9900.718,"end":9922.871,"text":"有時候就是那30公尺50公尺那孩子走離開學校30公尺50公尺又繼續進入行人地獄這種情形我們中央有沒有想好能不能把校園安全擴大成上學的整條路都安全呢那不然就感覺就是做半套這個部分看怎麼來改善好不好"},{"start":9923.77,"end":9945.204,"text":"跟委員報告這個目前所有的計畫在推動都有這樣去要求但是因為涉及到地方要去溝通協調的事項非常多所以是地方的問題因為這個東西都是第一線在我們是督導而且補助會不會地方他整體規劃可是上來你們錢就只給一點沒有我們會再去檢視他實際上要執行的內容"},{"start":9946.064,"end":9959.722,"text":"所以如果他全盤性那你們也是有也是會等於是會整體給對因為我們這一些補助項目也涉及到一些相關的交通預算所以整個是在中央部會裡面會有一些相關預算來補助"},{"start":9961.684,"end":9985.959,"text":"好 那我想我們還是要特別跟中央來反映我們罰單只可以改變一時的行為我們改善工程才能夠改變我們民眾每天的命運那再來本席請教部長我們有看到公路法它的修正我們也認同把汽車燃料使用費證明為公路使用養護安全管理費"},{"start":9986.92,"end":10001.626,"text":"而且這個費用是由公路主管機關統一徵收之後交通部會商內政部辦理那分配的比例我們可以了解一下嗎交通部跟內政部分配的比例報告委員"},{"start":10002.844,"end":10028.286,"text":"因為法律還沒通過法律通過以後分配的比例還沒有 我們的還沒修正我們的還沒修正你們那個現在交通部現在交通部也還沒有告訴我們分配的比例是怎麼來處理但是我是覺得從事實上來考量我們應該就是從公路自己本身要養護怎麼樣讓公路更安全能保障用路人的安全來處理 而是不要"},{"start":10029.406,"end":10049.093,"text":"就是說很硬性的就是說是5比5或是7比3那所以在行政院的大安匯報裡面院長他都會做財事也根據各種不同縣市政府裡面的需求用這樣的經費來處理有關於道路安全的事項不管是軟體或硬體的改善都會放在這裡面那本席想向內政部提出"},{"start":10049.813,"end":10072.981,"text":"你們是不是在跟交通部未來一定會協調嘛對不對協調的時候我們內政部因為本身國土署這裡也有一些道路改善的部分我們是不是可以提出地方道路需求模型那我們主動提出來才能夠跟他們來共同協調那我們這邊可以有這個分配的比例這個部分請署長"},{"start":10076.267,"end":10098.302,"text":"謝謝委員 這個部分我們會再朝這個方向一個計畫要強化我們市區道路的重要更貼近人民所以我的重點是內政部要主動提出你這個模型然後你在討論的時候當然交通部他們也有一些經費也是會到地方但是內政部不能行政帶多你要主動提出"},{"start":10099.022,"end":10124.791,"text":"交通部在分配預算的時候我們會把一些相關的需求整合進去把一個整體性的規劃在那個區域裡面一起來做改善那本席提的你們是不是也可以內政部自己要提出這個需求的模型我們自己本身也會依照我們會提那這到時候的情況是不是也可以有一個書面給我們我們再跟交通部協調以後再把一些資料給委員"},{"start":10126.619,"end":10151.547,"text":"好 謝謝最後 本席想就教部長我們過去很多年來等於我們知道台北是我們的首都所以首都的很多建設它也代表著我們的門面現在新竹是等於台灣科技的心臟同時也創造了整個台灣經濟奇境很重要的經濟命脈"},{"start":10153.088,"end":10160.101,"text":"所以新竹可以說是科技的首都所以在這個經費補助的運用上是不是可以有一些優先"},{"start":10163.084,"end":10188.869,"text":"報告委員 我們都是依法行政經費的補助上面應該按照財政收支劃分法裡面的級別來做補助那如果是專案計畫 譬如說剛委員提到今天如果是國科會 要通過國科研處我現在的意思就是說 這一個思維大家比較忽略台灣經濟的命脈 然後又是科技首都這個部分是不是可以來強化"},{"start":10190.695,"end":10207.112,"text":"我想您還是能夠提出它是哪一種專案那我們才能就這個回答否則我們要面對22個縣市的委員大家都說他們是什麼首都什麼首都那我回答的部分有回答跟沒回答是一樣的所以我特別講了嘛"},{"start":10207.332,"end":10229.418,"text":"台灣經濟的命脈大家講到科技講到半導體我想新竹大家是不會否認的所以科技首都這個部分我們不是說要專美於前不是而是在這一塊大家是不是可以也不是大家啦就我們中央這裡能夠特別強化這一塊可以思考一下啦好不好好謝謝"},{"start":10232.691,"end":10255.912,"text":"好,謝謝許新英委員接下來我們請蔡易瑜委員詢答謝謝趙偉,那我是不是有請我們內政部我們部長請劉部長"},{"start":10262.486,"end":10284.925,"text":"蔡委員好部長好部長首先要感謝因為在去年丹納斯颱風受災這麼嚴重那我們現在內政部也核定要針對鄉鎮的村裡的災防能力那內政部這邊會提供對應的一些他們需要防災的一些空間的一個補助那我想這個幫助很大"},{"start":10285.325,"end":10310.928,"text":"尤其是一些在比較偏遠的一些村裡的辦公室它基本上他們村裡辦公室就是防災中心就是村裡的防災中心那這個補助的幫助是有的所以在這邊先感謝部長那第二個要跟部長來聊一下就是說我想這個是不是也請我們這個內政部國土署是不是也可以上來那"},{"start":10314.576,"end":10331.509,"text":"我們知道說現在整個土方的一個問題很多土方是需要找地方去劃的所以這個問題我們必須要正視而且現在就民間在說那個處理土方的費用一直墊高"},{"start":10332.971,"end":10348.084,"text":"這個墊高的結果有可能會造成未來的整個營建成本都是提高的所以它會產生的後續的影響是很大的那我這邊也是提供一個就是說 事實上我一直在講就是我們布袋山崗的北側到東石的這個壽島這一塊是適合填海造路的"},{"start":10355.791,"end":10380.527,"text":"那這一塊怎麼適合呢我直接給部長看看他這十年來的一個變化因為我們知道東石布袋外側就是外山頂洲那在內側有一個壽島那整體外山頂洲跟壽島不斷的在難移所以我們可以看看2015年的時候我在講的這一塊它這個是壽島然後跟三港的北側你看當時候的沙洲長這個樣子"},{"start":10381.428,"end":10409.491,"text":"然後到了2021的時候它就開始在持續的它是持續的不斷的在南漂來再下一頁然後到了2023、2025的時候你看它已經南漂到第一個島已經完全都已經卡住了這一個港取家這一個布袋第三漁港的這個港嘴這裡已經堵住了然後第二個這個受導的第二個島鏈也往下漂過來"},{"start":10410.211,"end":10436.963,"text":"所以就會看得到原本的這個出海口是在南端現在變成是在中端所以以這樣的一個趨勢咧也許再過十年我們看的這一塊這一個海域咧它就會被完全封住會被完全封住再過可能再十年所以大自然的力量會導致這裡會變成一個內陸化所以原本裡面有刺刮鵝尾現在你看二零二五的時候現在鵝尾全部清除了"},{"start":10437.823,"end":10443.665,"text":"就表示說這裡已經沒有辦法去從事漁業所以也沒有生態問題那既然沒有生態問題的話很遺憾的這一個海域還被劃為濕地因為當時在決定國家濕地的時候範圍劃太大把我們整個布袋跟當時我們整個海岸線都把它劃為濕地那很明顯的這裡的濕地名稱叫做"},{"start":10463.671,"end":10486.54,"text":"叫做瀑子溪河口失地 但是這裡離瀑子溪超級遠跟瀑子溪的河口完全沒有關係他只是當時把整個海岸線都把他抓進來那如果我這樣給部長很清楚的看到這十年來因為受倒的難移 然後整個海岸線的變化現在受倒的第二個島鏈也已經快要往下再繼續擠下去"},{"start":10488.061,"end":10510.809,"text":"所以這裡就是一個很適合做填海造陸也可以協助去化土方的地方那中間這陣段就卡到說也許這個跟私地的一個私地保育法的競合關係但是不管怎麼競合我想內政部總是有辦法來做通盤的一個檢討那既然這塊地適合現在來處理土方那我們是不是可以加速來進行呢"},{"start":10511.849,"end":10527.354,"text":"好謝謝蔡委員的關心委員在戴納斯颱風過後你就有跟我提到這個事情所以回來我們有做一下這個精進跟檢討的方案第一個這個地方是不是適合做所謂的填海照路現在國土署已經把它納入我們在做評估"},{"start":10528.234,"end":10548.322,"text":"那第二個就是說失地保育法其實呢第九條的規定就是如果他是因為國家的重大公共利益跟國人報告填海造陸是屬於我們要辦理國土流失那個最重要的這個利益的時候我們當然要衡量輕重認為是填海造陸是非常重要的"},{"start":10548.922,"end":10564.105,"text":"但是這一塊整個的嘉義布袋的這個部分不管是北邊或是南邊未來有沒有其他的國家重要建設比如說海水淡化廠或者是說因為嘉義現在有COWAS的關係會有其他的重要的科學園區需要做這個進合"},{"start":10565.186,"end":10577.94,"text":"那這個淨河上面如果已經有畫出來說這塊區域需要做填海造陸的話那當然它是一個非常好的未來這個營建剩餘土石方乾淨的土石方的一個去化的一個目標我們會朝著這方面來檢討改進"},{"start":10580.282,"end":10595.479,"text":"好 那跟部長說一下就是說我們做海蛋廠的填海招入地點並不是這一塊所以這一塊又是新的那只是這一塊面積遠大於原本經濟部所規劃的經濟部大概那一塊只有20公頃那大概100萬方的土方就"},{"start":10595.999,"end":10610.974,"text":"至少這邊去化一千萬方都沒有問題這塊明顯大人說但是會不會影響到布袋港就是我們是不是需要跟交流部布袋港的預計啊可以加加再整體評估但是不會影響布袋港的原因就是說它原本就是一個極端已經快要內陸化的一塊"},{"start":10612.355,"end":10635.643,"text":"一個海域的 所以這個地方你看連那個鵝尾鴨都已經沒辦法進出了連最淺的鵝尾鴨都已經沒辦法了所以它這裡的生態的功能幾乎是完全消失了是 我要跟委員報告不管是跟經濟部的水利署或者是交通部來聯繫就是我們填海造陸以後要做什麼例如說我們現在台北港在接收剩餘土石方它是為了台北港為了要擴建"},{"start":10636.943,"end":10651.789,"text":"或者是未來的那個高雄的南興計劃區它有剩餘土石方法 它是要擴建可能當成是不是機場啦 或是其他的這個循環經濟園區使用不是說純粹土 但是那個地方 它要有一個所以要做一個整體的規範會面的時候總統也有來布袋這裡 然後稍微跟他說明一下這樣總統也覺得說 嗯 有一些方向讓我去思考"},{"start":10660.473,"end":10674.106,"text":"那我也覺得我會認真去思考未來要做什麼這件事情但是呢總是這個前提作業因為如果目前他還被沒有辦法啟動天海造陸的話很多很多後續的計畫是也沒有辦法去認真去啟動的是"},{"start":10675.607,"end":10697.485,"text":"報告委員那個院長他會跨部會來處理這塊事情那也知道那個蔡委員的關心有時間他可能要到現場去看那就會把內政部、經濟部還有或者交通部相關的部會甚至國科會揮擊、召集然後來處理這一塊我想這個對於台灣在處理國土流失以內政部的主管機關來看的話我們是樂觀其事好 謝謝部長"},{"start":10707.41,"end":10719.558,"text":"我們登記發言的委員除了不在場以外都已發言完畢,詢答結束委員王美惠、廖先祥、高金素梅、羅志強、邱志偉所提的書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報"},{"start":10721.704,"end":10732.038,"text":"書面質詢及未答覆的部分請相關單位除了李貞秀女士的以外都於一週內書面答覆並複製本會"},{"start":10735.779,"end":10751.56,"text":"討論事項所列議案另定期繼續審查另外補充報告本日議程與其他單位的報告請委員自行參酌並刊登公報本日會議到此結束,現在散會,謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167510","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167510","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f606e85bca76fa2846f4d454d79684183abfd7ce027fbc82e039431ddb69bbbff55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"11:06:45 - 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三位一位同仁請我們內政部部長委員好部長好今天早上大家都為了李徵秀的事情大家都在討論那我們還是要針對我們的體制來走本席這邊還是比較關心的就是社會住宅社會住宅現在的住宅是全國統一申請登記的平台"},{"start":32.875,"end":49.882,"text":"這個政策非常好因為我們的社會住宅在一般的民眾的需求是非常的高尤其年輕人大家都抱著非常高的意願所以說在這個社會住宅在推動的過程中"},{"start":50.462,"end":51.663,"text":"因為各縣市他們也會有疑慮啦是公平性的問題所以說"},{"start":70.141,"end":88.113,"text":"在我們中央第一年一定要透明化包括說我們遇到的那種你後補的大家都會期待我什麼時候補得到那你整個資訊透明化那個民眾他就沒這個餘力所以就是我們政府的德政"},{"start":88.653,"end":102.063,"text":"所以說在這件我希望說我們的社會住宅現在普遍我們的一些年輕人大家對我們這個社會住宅的推動大家都抱著非常高的期待是不是請博長來回答"},{"start":106.112,"end":116.959,"text":"委員全國統一申請登記平台也是我們上一次在修正住宅法的時候放到裡面去好處就是剛才委員所講的部分第一個要全國有統一的規範然後再來比較能夠有一致性同時目前是採取各個地方政府跟我們的社宅一起來做這個銜接但是地方政府的銜接確實每個地方政府會有落差"},{"start":133.311,"end":161.04,"text":"所以如果建置全國的統一平台的時候我們可以把說服資料還有攝服的資料譬如說縣市地方政府對於中低收入戶或是低收入戶他的認定資格本來都不相同但是我們把它放在統一平台裡面去的時候會認定他是不是符合登記社會住宅這樣的資格尤其是年輕人他說不定跨縣市來申請社會住宅是有幫助的但是現在這個部分我們必須要把它能夠數位化"},{"start":163.081,"end":185.055,"text":"還有跟各縣市地方政府來合作所以我們預計要在117年之前會完成這個登記平台因為我們還是要加快因為這是民眾覺得公平性大家的信賴度會更高這是我們好的進程我們都是要盡快去推動"},{"start":185.976,"end":206.876,"text":"再來就是我們的包製代管包製代管我剛才問我們的董事長現在全國也有10萬戶的包製代管這成績還是不錯但是後面一些配套我們還是要把它規劃得更為完善其實我們現在的民眾很多都是因為買不出買不出"},{"start":208.681,"end":218.369,"text":"他就要來做出,這都屬於比較弱勢團體,所以說在這個弱勢團體,我們要怎麼來說像我們這個平台來推動,讓他們可以做到比較合格的價格,但是你說剛才合格的價格,我們也不能說去圖利就"},{"start":231.878,"end":256.823,"text":"因爲很多人都是在家裡做人不能去圖利到這些房東我們要再想出一套的配套措施這是未來我們還要再去研究針對於我們的那個老宅延朔老宅延朔的問題其實在我們新北這都會區我們都知道那個房子都三四十年了其實三四十年的房子"},{"start":258.323,"end":265.085,"text":"很多都是需要說來做補償像說我們的過去0403這個地震這就噴射到山窟土層就發生這圍爐的問題所以說在這個情形你說在五月份就要上路那目前的經費"},{"start":277.91,"end":296.154,"text":"都還沒通過那未來會不會影響我已經抱歉在3月5號的時候行政院的院會報告已經通過了我們現在是請譬如說新北市他必須要有一個專業的輔導團隊能夠成立因為要行政的人不可以說生菜籤籤要這樣到時候沒過的我們現在中央國土署已經有輔導團隊但是每個縣市政委也要有輔導團隊這樣比較好處理"},{"start":303.695,"end":317.122,"text":"是 因為在我們新北 這個的老宅 它這個比例非常高每一邊的地攤 就是都有很多危老的出現但是我跟委員報告一下 老宅延遜 第一項就是要經過賣贈評估啦你如果賣贈評估不合格 可能也沒希望 你可以來申請 可能你要走危老"},{"start":324.687,"end":337.127,"text":"還是土耕比較好因為你本來的地盤有危險,你又把它修修這樣不對這樣反而危險,反而會危險不符合我們老宅延壽的補貼或者是協助修繕的目標"},{"start":338.438,"end":363.733,"text":"因為這是一個很好的政策,民族也是很期待尤其是在這種五樓的房子、四樓的房子,這種以前的古典的公屋房子四樓、六樓,或是六樓以後的套廳你說整個來做都市更新,還是有困難所以說這個老宅元素,這個部分、這個政策是非常好這個部分,我們要繼續努力啦好,謝謝"},{"start":369.54,"end":369.641,"text":"謝謝,謝謝吳啓明委員"}]}},{"id":"167531","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167531","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f655a96505747eba7f9a7ba446ded26d6bfe91a9b467d8c7cab2c76d9d4ef1a3e25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"12:47:57 - 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那這個檢測是包括這個商用的呢 還是單純只是軍用的一個檢測軍用商用的檢測都會在這邊進行就一併都會在東側這裡進行對 我們實驗室也會開放好 那再進一步的請教那我們現在國內對於整個無人機的一個產業"},{"start":111.755,"end":139.165,"text":"無人機現在甚至包括無人船那基本上都是非常的重要尤其是我們看到整個戰爭形態的改變接下來幾乎都是無人載具而且現在我看到無人機的技術現在幾乎都搭配AI了就是說連人操作都不用那個人都是輔助而已無人機給他裝個AI AI設定好他自己就去找目標甚至他還可以已經發展到的說"},{"start":139.785,"end":155.094,"text":"反無人機系統也是透過AI自己去對抗無人機所以大概會整個配合AI的一個運作然後讓無人機會更加的成熟那未來我們軍方現在要採購的無人機"},{"start":156.395,"end":171.572,"text":"我們是會就是像我剛說的直接用最先進的無人機直接就讓軍方去採購還是我們是以訓練為導向先讓阿兵哥學會操作無人機這個是你們現在的一個方向是怎樣呢"},{"start":175.359,"end":181.901,"text":"剛剛委員報告我們區分了兩個部分第一個是訓練機的部分由我們的訓練部門會編列訓練預算來採購一些訓練機那至於我們軍備局剛剛委員所提出來的這個是我們全部都是我們軍備局來負責我們所有攻擊機的採購"},{"start":194.434,"end":221.871,"text":"那供應機的採購現在已經做了兩次的招商會每次都是兩三百家的廠商來非常的熱絡那我們已經做好的整個採購計畫帶特別預算核定之後我們就會上網公告招標那整個無電機的產業就會結合雅創結合我們剛剛我們總管院長所說明的民雄一個無電機的園區再加上我們的後續的一個六甲跟砂輪的部分我們整個無電機的產業"},{"start":224.572,"end":235.522,"text":"會朝這個方向應該會蓬勃的發展 以上說明產業的部分就是說採購無人機包括訓練機 包括可以用在戰場的那訓練機的部分你們是朝向說未來國軍是每個人都要接受訓練還是要專有的一個部隊來接受訓練"},{"start":249.793,"end":278.155,"text":"我們國軍的無人機有分為無人機的專業部隊還有一般的一個使用的部隊我們的坐機師還有我們的相關的訓練部門都已經做好了完整的規劃並且陸軍和海軍分別都有一個無人機的訓練中心我們採購的無人機的規格就是等同我們攻擊機的規格那這個無人機的訓練中心在哪裡是不是就台南那個白河那邊我先跟委員做一下說明就是說我們現在無人機的訓練包含到我們在陸武階段"},{"start":279.696,"end":305.43,"text":"或者是我們在後備集中訓練這個召集的階段都有實施無人機的一個基礎的訓練在這個訓練最基本是要讓所有人了解以及能夠簡易的操作無人機那第二個部分就是現在陸海空軍都有成立無人機的訓練中心那這個無人機的訓練中心它有兩個目的第一個部分是能夠幫所有的戰鬥部隊來訓練無人機的操作手"},{"start":307.831,"end":315.957,"text":"第二個是我們希望他們能夠發揮失智的功能受訓完之後能夠擴大這個成效回到各部門能夠教授無人機的這個技巧"},{"start":316.886,"end":344.514,"text":"好就是說無人機這類產業啦我想國軍除了說我們透過軍用商規讓國內的無人機這個產業可以帶動起來之外人才的訓練非常重要所以剛剛嘉賓委員講到虎科大虎科大現在就是扮演整個他大概站在是科技的研發那邊但是基礎的人才訓練我認為國軍還是得自己來所以我剛在問的就是說你們未來這個訓練中心"},{"start":346.955,"end":364.697,"text":"是要怎麼去強化然後去落實這樣他的整個訓練計畫至少讓國軍可以懂得無人機不會說一隻來然後牠們懵懵懂懂好像會又好像不會我覺得現在年輕人你大概讓他摸個幾次他就熟了"},{"start":365.237,"end":385.595,"text":"所以應該是說盡量讓大家都可以接觸到無人機那他有這樣的印象後這個記憶他就會留下來以後任何時候有需要的時候他都可以用無人機可以直接去操作無人機現在的訓練真的是按照剛剛委員的指導剛剛現在其實已經很早在去年就已經在進行當中都在進行好那就加油謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167530","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167530","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6cc7e7f3a5160a1659a7ba446ded26d6bfe91a9b467d8c7ca0b4769cd08d8a1da5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:36:48 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請以上人員就備宣台創委員好副部長好副總職好我們都算有小小的舊事啦尤其是我們屏東同鄉以你為榮好 現在呢我們看到了中東烽火起啊嘿 下一頁"},{"start":35.452,"end":42.657,"text":"那麼我去剛好上個月去出行的一個印度瑞辛納的一個論壇有114個國家超過700個代表參加我有幸參加討論台海安全的部分結果在我旁邊呢有一個上將是前印度的參謀長 陸軍參謀長在我旁邊的是目前高市早苗總理大臣的補佐官算是行政院的類似副秘書長是空軍少將退下來的我呢是公才補給下士啦"},{"start":65.092,"end":82.646,"text":"但是呢這個不是在談這個軍事專業我們還看到了英國的前首相蘇納克說嚇阻台海衝突的重要性比這個荷末斯海峽更重要所以呢大家都在關注烏俄以及美伊的這些部分那麼有一句話說有人說後勤決定勝敗甚至現在的戰爭打的是工業生產力請問副部長您同意嗎同意"},{"start":87.87,"end":117.021,"text":"我們看一下伊朗怎麼去處理這個我是念歷史的在戰國冊裡面有一個叫做下士對上士知道這個典故嗎伊朗就是這樣他拿兩萬塊美金的建政者136去對付讓你消耗你美國愛國者四百萬美金的飛彈那用飽和攻擊消耗掉你的高價武器用下士耗掉你的上士再讓他的上士對你的中士用他的中士對你的下士這樣的一個戰術思維大概這幾千年來都有這樣的副部長也同意吧"},{"start":117.301,"end":125.808,"text":"伊朗是不是這樣做 是這樣做 好因此我們看到了 因此這些下市也很重要我就是公財補給下市 下市也很重要但是我們看到這兩天的新聞就突然月滿軍購有助軍工產業大爆發估計可以高達創造出4000億的產值事實上去年的產值高達2300億其中無人機屬於下市的佔了129億我是不知道怎麼算出來的啦"},{"start":142.603,"end":150.186,"text":"但是我們 他告訴我們 我們不能只投資上市不能只投資潛艦啊 這個最新的戰機而且呢 也要投資下市 像無人機那麼您認為台灣在投資無人機 我們該怎麼做目前我們整機的製造少 但是我們的零件會外銷全球副部長 你怎麼看待目前台灣無人機產業工業的這個情況"},{"start":165.593,"end":191.045,"text":"跟委員報告整個目前我們整個無人機的產業跟規劃國安部有分三個步驟來做相關的一個推進第一個部分是我們希望能夠立即強化國軍的無人機的戰力這個部分我們就是採國內廠商以及國外成熟的無人機的商品部長我打斷你因為這個題目我關心很久了"},{"start":191.385,"end":209.137,"text":"到目前為止不管是海委會海巡署還是我們國防部整機的得標者呢大部分還是國外的供應商比國內的整機更有優勢你同意嗎好那什麼原因我來跟你講往下看其實目前就算是無人機也有軍用軍規跟軍用商規的像MQ-9"},{"start":211.639,"end":238.249,"text":"B這是美國使神他才能做啊這個我們國家大概沒有辦法但是這些軍用商規的我們國家可以但是受限於我們的國防採購的規模較小所以目前如果要讓軍用商規的擴大一定要增加商用的市場不能只靠國軍採購可以嗎可以好 那我們接下來看但是我們來看一下到底這樣的一個供應鏈過去無人機的產業我們借鏡民航機來看Airbus跟波音它的競爭關係"},{"start":239.77,"end":251.374,"text":"波音美國那麼大從引擎導航機身他什麼都可以做但是歐盟不一樣他們要分工有的做機體有的做翅膀有的做引擎你同意嗎所以這裡面就有一個供應鏈分工還有一個美國怎麼厲害他就算整家都得做他不會全做我們屏東的加工出口區就有廠商在專門接波音的鋁合金的零組件但是要通過什麼"},{"start":263.979,"end":269.965,"text":"通過波音的認證那你大概知道這個市場性吧所以同樣的話告訴你說目前本土的無人機去年129億有110的外銷是零組件到波蘭捷克跟美國到美國的部分你要取得認證波蘭跟捷克它當然去紅就可以我們往下看"},{"start":282.077,"end":296.386,"text":"所以我們看到美國現在有Green跟Blue的嘛是不是這樣目前我們台灣能夠賣到美國的零組件大概都有到Green的有的要去拿Blue他才有辦法進去但是我們看到了我們零組件型整機有沒有辦法有沒有可能跟美國競爭"},{"start":299.886,"end":311.038,"text":"系統開發對 必須要看廠商他取不取得這個綠色跟藍色等等假設他在美國那個是指零組件對也就是說 我整機 我就算是全部我都有辦法拿到綠色 藍色的我整機的開發系統啊 還是要實測嘛"},{"start":315.557,"end":325.184,"text":"所以說如果我們有足夠的實測我們沒辦法跟美國跟烏克蘭競爭嘛因為他們是有實際的經驗誰要買你台灣沒有經過戰場驗證的對不對所以說我們現在需要什麼呢需要兩個東西一個是驗證機構也就是說軍方可能沒有辦法來提供驗證但是國內應該讓經濟部像以前的車測中心他就為我們的我們台灣雖然不能做整輛的汽車外銷但是我們的汽車零組件外銷的很多就是因為我們有驗證中心這個是不是國防部的權責"},{"start":345.818,"end":360.389,"text":"這個在行政院有整體的規劃目前今年在民雄那是誰負責哪個部會負責這個部分是行政院以及我們中科院共同來配合推動經濟部也要參與但是不是國防部的 國防部是什麼除了驗證之外要實測實測的場域在誰手上我們防護總值是不是這樣空軍是不是過去用掉了大部分空域"},{"start":372.717,"end":379.544,"text":"有一部分是在國防部管制的這種...是的 我要說的是說台灣的戰場情境跟烏克蘭不同他們過來要大量的海洋海洋跟山林它在地表的特徵是完全不同的如果我們的無人機的實測不能取得各種戰場情境的場域去是非我們的整機是沒辦法跟人家競爭的 你同意嗎"},{"start":394.699,"end":410.565,"text":"同意 現在整個行政院已經有規劃幾個水上大型無人機測試的場域包含在屏東以及在南部的海域是的 所以這裡我要給您建議您可以看最近台航的總經理他發表了一篇文章我覺得蠻有道理的他說除了這些現場實測的場域之外軍方要開放之外還有實際搭載武器現在我們整機的無人艇或無人機要做到了雖然是商規要軍用它一定要有火力彈藥"},{"start":423.83,"end":431.857,"text":"這個部分在國內是管制品我不可能我隨便去買一個去路邊買一個榴彈我就掛在我的四軸無人機我去試飛看會炸得中炸不中不可能一定要軍方協助所以未來5G的搭載也是一個課題再往下看所以我們現在美軍他也積極的去學習烏克蘭跟伊朗的經驗烏克蘭派無人機專家去到美國的約旦基地區協防美國的無人機也偷偷的把伊朗的做逆向工程把它整個拷貝過去了"},{"start":452.034,"end":477.287,"text":"美國這樣的做法會不會說以那麼高科技的國家來學習這種低級的技術你會不會覺得他太委屈了還是覺得這是很務實的做法這是很務實的做法 現在我們國軍也在做很好 那我就是說了所以說我們看到我們看到責任司機他說無人機的經驗開始來協助對抗伊朗但是以色列怎麼做 烏克蘭怎麼做我們國防部的官方說我們要主動反制 被動防禦等還要持續的引進新興科技怎麼引進"},{"start":479.065,"end":489.334,"text":"我們的外交處境這麼艱難,你有辦法派我們的制服的軍方人員去嗎?我舉例啦,民間常常開玩笑說,現在台灣有很多美語教師啊,什麼是美語教師?就是美方的軍事人員來我們這邊跟我們做軍事技術交流的嘛。你覺得我們台灣可以派台語教師去烏克蘭嗎?"},{"start":501.235,"end":524.551,"text":"簡單說說我們現在跟國外其實有相關的無人機合作技術的交流跟發展尤其在各無人機的訓練中也有相關的交流那這個部分可以單獨再跟委員沒有關係你單獨私下講我可以公開的講什麼其實烏克蘭台灣的科大教育很發達科大的系統有很多我們台灣的科系是具有這樣的一個基礎工程能力的"},{"start":525.371,"end":538.323,"text":"烏克蘭的大學他們目前也類似科大全力在支援烏克蘭軍方他們在這些無人機的相關的工程電子零件而且呢他們也很佩服台灣他們認為台灣在電子零件而工程上很先進所以有沒有可能我們從台灣的科大找這些電子工程機械相關領域的專家或教授甚至高階的研究生去跟烏克蘭的科大交流一下你覺得有沒有幫助"},{"start":552.288,"end":576.882,"text":"這個可能要牽涉到我們現在跟這個虎尾科大幾個學校有做什麼我都還沒說出名字你就說出來了虎尾科大對 虎尾科大是國內目前啊這個相關航空領域他很積極的對 覺溫裕校長我都跟他很熟所以呢你跟虎尾科大有什麼合作我們現在確實有跟他做一些協助性的一個合作跟交流也有一些協助研究請他們再做那他們能不能到烏克蘭去這可能我們就是不是"},{"start":578.09,"end":603.604,"text":"這個就需要行政院包括外交部跟教育部去協助其實我剛從印度回來台灣很多跟非邦交國我們是透過這種科學研究的教育交流的方式去建立關係所以呢這個部分請副部長要跟部長報告一下幫我們爭取國防部爭取這個台語教師到烏克蘭好不好就是我們看最後的三個結論就是跟部會共商建立我國軍用商規的認證機制這可能中科院"},{"start":604.284,"end":612.887,"text":"跟我們的經濟部要協助我們的供應鏈的取得比照美國Green跟Blue的第二個這個是你們可以做到的無人機載具的這個不是封測測試實測的場域可以嗎可以合理的提供武器測試的一個申請流程可以嗎"},{"start":623.601,"end":642.828,"text":"也有了 最後請你們在行政院爭取請外交部跟教育部協助讓我們台灣具有烏克蘭也希望跟我們交流經驗的包括電子工程師 包括機械工程師包括這些學士後的這些比較高階的研究人員可以用科技大學跟科技大學的方式去交流取得一些烏克蘭的經驗 您支持嗎這部分我們努力努力 好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167519","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167519","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6b74ffedf19c623409845512775efda37bfd7ce027fbc82e0642409915d7b18685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林思銘","委員發言時間":"11:38:34 - 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謝謝趙偉我現在請主席講主席長委員好 生日快樂謝謝 謝謝主席長OK謝謝 謝謝 謝謝我進入主題待會到我辦公室吃蛋糕"},{"start":27.737,"end":49.609,"text":"小組長 剛才大家很關心我們近期中東的局勢升高如果這個美伊的戰爭擴大最令我們擔心的就是那個荷姆斯海峽被封鎖這個荷姆斯海峽是全球最重要的能源輸的運輸通道全球大約五分之一的石油與天然氣必須經過這條海峽"},{"start":51.99,"end":80.553,"text":"那我國作為海島型的經濟體啊能源幾乎完全依賴進口所以一旦荷姆斯海峽遭到封鎖的話可能會影響到三個層面第一就是我們能源價格的上漲第二個通膨壓力的上升第三個我們經濟的成長可能會受到拖累所以面對每一戰爭所造成的能源價格的上漲那通膨也會上升剛才很多委員都有在關心"},{"start":81.601,"end":99.648,"text":"那我國的GDP成長率預估今年看起來很樂觀7.71%所以想依照你現在因為這個不可抗力的因素加進來我國今年的經濟成長率還有這麼樂觀嗎預估你會做怎麼樣的一個下修"},{"start":100.626,"end":121.396,"text":"因為我們CSP業者他預估其實還是很樂觀就是這一個重點那第二個呢其實我會下修主要會針對石油的部分因為石油的部分它如果增加10%我們是下修0.12%嘛那目前以目前我們當初初估的時候是58那現在如果說將近119的話那是成長將近一倍那一倍的話大概成長將近0.8%到9%左右0.8%"},{"start":128.98,"end":158.028,"text":"那所以這樣子一般的話以這一塊的部分是應該下修因為石油的因素我們就會下修百分之如果是石油的因素的部分這個部分大概會下修這個部分但是其他的部分因為CSP它一直很好而且以一二月的一個狀況出火狀況它還是非常好所以這個狀況就是整個這個第三劑所以我說第三劑它能修正的也不是很多啦"},{"start":158.708,"end":163.792,"text":"局長我想你還是要做滾動式的檢討每一戰爭到底什麼時候會結束我們現在也不知道所以我一個一個分析給你聽石油天然氣會影響整個CPI指數的影響百分之十就影響0.24所以預計大概"},{"start":180.905,"end":198.573,"text":"如果說戰爭持續的話大概影響的部分如果天然氣有進口的部分有問題的部分大概影響到百分之二以上百分之二以上所以可能會下修百分之二是不是還是說連那個石油的CPI往上修"},{"start":203.775,"end":211.762,"text":"那我想主席講我看你的這個今年的經濟成本大幅上修到7.71%比上一次預測3.54%整整上修了4.17個百分點這個是我們歷年來最大的上修幅度是"},{"start":221.57,"end":238.41,"text":"我看到你們表示說主要原因是因為台美經貿環境區域你該講的加上AI需求爆發帶動出口與投資使GDP規模將突破1兆美元本席要先表示我們經濟成長當然是好事"},{"start":239.992,"end":249.747,"text":"但問題是現在免疫戰爭目前還沒有確切結束的期限不知道什麼時候會結束所以原本的預估勢必會因為免疫戰爭而必須下調我們的經濟成長率"},{"start":254.932,"end":269.301,"text":"另外我們看到台美經貿環境真的趨穩了嗎本席必須提醒面對川普這位大總統的不確定性所以我們不行這麼樂觀還有台美的對等貿易協定ART是否真的會照協定的內容執行"},{"start":278.706,"end":300.229,"text":"我想這些還充滿不確定的因素啊所以我們現在時隔34年我國又被納入了301條款的調查國家之一難道這些因素主計總數你都沒有列入這一次你上調到7.71%的評估因素嗎剛才講的你們都沒有加入評估因素嗎你這麼樂觀喔"},{"start":301.65,"end":321.07,"text":"中東戰爭我們是還沒有納入啦當初二月中旬的時候還沒有中東戰爭但是因為那時候我現在是撇開嘛就是我剛才講的幾個因素川普的不確定性當初是重演的部分那現在縱使是說我那個但是我還是有ART和MOU有訂定"},{"start":321.71,"end":333.847,"text":"所以對我們來講至少有七成以上還是有利的雖然有301條款的一個制約但是對我們來講以目前來講比當前我們在評估的時候還是有利的"},{"start":335.944,"end":353.965,"text":"市長,你說今年的經濟呈現的是高成長穩通膨的格局預測CPI只有1.68%,仍低於2%的警戒線但是剛才很多委員也關心,就是我們民眾的感受"},{"start":355.186,"end":372.715,"text":"其實不是這樣我們水電瓦斯都在上漲而且房租在漲另外因為這個美伊戰爭我們所帶來的我們整個這個該講交通費的上漲不管是我們的機票、車票全部都預計都會在這未來幾個月會持續上漲現在就是現在進行式一直在漲"},{"start":380.299,"end":407.514,"text":"所以我們許多上幫族族的薪資成長跟不上這些生活成成本啊所以這個這些生活的成本就是這個薪資的上漲幅度太低啊所以沒有辦法落實到每一個人的生活的改善所以我們政府啊要如何的因應這些這個民生的一些問題啊這些油價上漲瓦斯上漲所帶來的這些這個問題政府要如何因應"},{"start":408.915,"end":437.761,"text":"這個部分我們大概在行政院的一個物價穩定小組裡面他有折成中油還有台電還有台水那針對天然瓦斯還有一個石油的這個部分目前是雙凍漲的部分那也盡量希望能夠不要漲那這些中油台電 凍漲之後就要補貼台電對他們這些補貼的因素將來我們透過對他們的一個增資給予補償因為這些都是屬於政策的因素"},{"start":438.161,"end":465.617,"text":"所以到時候要請委員您來多支持那再來就是說我們其他的部分譬如說如果說CPI的一個其他的因素我們也希望經濟部能夠透過其他的對中小企業相關的一個補助能夠讓這個來增低我現在聽到的都是補貼啦都是用補貼來這個穩住我們的物價但是我們除了補貼的政策以外"},{"start":466.517,"end":482.194,"text":"還有什麼其他更好的方案那其實我也跟委員報告事實上我們最近也在研擬就那個六大社會津貼要做一個調整那所以這個部分這一次調整大概有調整弧度將近23%"},{"start":484.637,"end":508.545,"text":"所謂的老農津貼農民年金這些都做調整讓他們整個一個整個津貼幅度往上升大升23%是是這樣我想問你不是這個我說我們除了對於這些棕油它的虧損用這個去補貼政策去補貼它以外那另外我們真正的有效的能夠這個"},{"start":511.007,"end":523.924,"text":"政府除了補貼政策以外真正有效更好的方案你們沒有想過嗎其他的政策工具沒有想過嗎比如說我講一下啦比如說稅制的調整啦"},{"start":525.757,"end":549.868,"text":"調降油品的貨物稅還有能源的分散還有能源的轉型貨物稅的一個調整的減增才有貨物稅的減增弧度所以這些政策工具都有在用還有能源的分散比如說我們現在可能就是不是只有跟中東國家來採購油品其他國家也要跟他買"},{"start":551.928,"end":573.495,"text":"我想這些政策工具都要用啦還有能源政策我們核能的則重啟啊我想政府都要去思考而不是每次油品上漲我們就靠補貼啊我想這個都是短期的中長期的這個因應方式我想政府還是要把它考量進去啦台電也有在演你啦另外我想請問一下我們這個"},{"start":577.932,"end":594.346,"text":"平均薪資的問題我想主席講我國大約有七成的勞工領不到平均薪資根據主席總書的專報內容提到去年工業及服務企業全體收工員工每人每月經常薪資平均數為47884元較去年增加了3.09%"},{"start":600.231,"end":608.878,"text":"那主要是受惠於哪些產業能夠讓每人每月的平均薪資平均數能夠呈現47884元這個數字受惠於哪些產業因為很多勞工領不到這個錢啊"},{"start":615.447,"end":630.695,"text":"當然是高科技產業包括金融業、資通業都是科技業跟金融業來拉高所以多數的勞工的經常薪資綜合數還是38406年增率大概3.03%徐局長你是否有統計大約我們有幾成的勞工目前領的是接近這個38406"},{"start":643.376,"end":666.272,"text":"大約有幾成的勞工領到這個錢 你有沒有統計過中位數就是五成五成 其實是七成的勞工領到這個 只領到這個錢那是平均數我知道平均數是三萬八千但是有七成的勞工 他是大約領到這個錢我想你再詳細統計一下最後一個問題 請主席給我一分鐘就是我們看到"},{"start":668.134,"end":692.865,"text":"這個去年前年2024年的平均薪資是49,060元中位數是38,689元但是去年是前年2024年但是去年我們看到2025年他是剛才我們提到的平均薪資是47,884那個平均的這個那個平均的"},{"start":695.888,"end":696.669,"text":"中位數是38406都比2024年下降具體的原因是什麼"},{"start":706.568,"end":719.04,"text":"為什麼2024年我們的平均中位數還有平均月薪比較高2025下降我們是沒有下降是會後我再提供正確的數字給委員好不好是沒有下降2025是比2024還高的"}]}},{"id":"167518","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167518","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6999580e21443a34b0bc6757ec415edbebfd7ce027fbc82e0ac88c721d118b9685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"11:38:34 - 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那我們是不是要請國安會國安會的葉主委主委委員長主委 主委那昨天我們嘉義舉辦這一次的台灣燈會那這個台灣燈會在昨天完成閉幕那這次的台灣燈會是給嘉義"},{"start":53.859,"end":79.718,"text":"讓嘉義的知名度大大的提高很多人都來這個燈會看到很多不一樣的一些燈會的一個演出那我特別要提啦在3月3號的時候那有這個燈會的這個煙火那這個燈會的煙火呢事實上在在我們去年東石海之下的時候一樣是有放這樣的海上煙火"},{"start":80.678,"end":100.453,"text":"那所以這個煙火的廠商就來自於我們自己在地布袋東西那這個廠商事實上這段時間都沒辦法去溝通一些比較本質的一個問題就是說國內事實上在做高空煙火的廠商已經不多了大概國內剩三家"},{"start":101.334,"end":128.123,"text":"其中兩家都在嘉義一家在嘉義的海區就是東石一家在嘉義的山區在大嶺這裡是製造商他們同樣都面對一個很大的問題就是說我們針對高空煙火高空煙火這個是強調專業他要炮到這麼高的空中他那個技術面的門檻非常高他跟傳統的炮竹工廠是不一樣的"},{"start":128.903,"end":148.539,"text":"但是我們卻沒有針對高空煙火把它跟傳統的炮竹工廠把它做一個區隔那直接很直白的就直接定義這一些高空煙火就是說這樣的煙火產商他們沒有辦法來申請燃燃的移工意思就是移工沒辦法請外勞來幫他們做這些工作"},{"start":152.722,"end":175.414,"text":"那以主委您的判斷 現在台灣要來從事這些煙火的製造我們可能大概家長也不太希望我們的子弟去從事這個危險性相對比較高的所以意願低 那意願低你就欠沒人那明明我們國家有這麼高技術這麼好的國內的一個煙火製造的一個廠商"},{"start":178.897,"end":191.07,"text":"他們甚至在疫情的期間我還幫他們協調讓他們的煙火可以順利出火出火到美國的迪士尼美國的迪士尼都是用我們在嘉義當場的煙火"},{"start":193.353,"end":206.607,"text":"他都明明是國內之光結果我們卻把他在定義上沒有一個清楚的定義讓他們到現在跟他在一起就很困難我覺得正好在燈會的結束那也事實上凸顯這個問題而且我這個問題我是在"},{"start":209.83,"end":226.565,"text":"三年前開協調會那你們跟我說會來檢討檢討這件事就這樣拖拖拖拖了三年過去了到了今年的二月好像經濟部才終於把這個案提到勞動部"},{"start":232.029,"end":244.319,"text":"三月底他們會討論三月底才會討論 三月底快到了那我可以期待了嗎 意思說我現在可以期待了經濟部已經提案了 勞動部三月底他會討論討論最後的結果怎樣的話當然討論結果不知道啦"},{"start":249.983,"end":277.941,"text":"但是我要講到就是說我們對於產業的需求讓我們政府的動作太慢你看光是這樣我從三年前東石開始在推這個煙火的故鄉這樣的一個概念的時候我就不斷的說基本上這種高空煙火不要把它視為傳統的炮竹工廠他們是需要有移工的一個需求的結果這樣一講講了三年我覺得這真的是效率上是值得再檢討的這樣好不好好"},{"start":280.022,"end":299.868,"text":"第二個事實上我要跟葉主委這邊來討論我們中埔這邊事實上有多份的研究報告都已經表示說事實上中埔這個地方這個中埔的中崙這個地方事實上它是有地熱的潛力"},{"start":301.77,"end":312.8,"text":"他就像管那樣啦他就像管那樣地下是同賣的所以這裡有非常好地熱的一個潛力那既然有這個地熱的潛力我們事實上這個"},{"start":314.571,"end":331.476,"text":"中油啦中油在去年114年的11月11號他也做了一個高溫地下水層的一個評估報告針對中浦鄉竹頭旗段400之一號這差不多就是中波的分水閣下在那裡這樣的一個評估報告他認為說基本上"},{"start":336.258,"end":364.116,"text":"你只要把它開挖你把它開挖到了大概600公尺它的底層溫度就有到43度但是如果你有辦法把它開挖到了1225公尺到1450公尺它的底層溫度就可以到達70度那過去還有一份專家的一個學者的一個地質報告他認為中輪溫泉這裡如果你把它開挖到了3公里以上可以到150度"},{"start":365.837,"end":389.798,"text":"所以這裡很明顯是一個很充沛的一個地熱的一個區域那國發會一直長久以來對這這個地方沒有關注到大家都在講能源的一個新進能源的開發的時候卻沒有去講到這一塊我目前拿的這兩份報告咧他們的評估並不是在做地熱並不是在做地熱的研究他們是在做溫泉"},{"start":391.339,"end":408.787,"text":"溫泉的研究因為我們知道現在關子營的溫泉事實上也可能需要一些新的鑽探的一個點人家在那邊看說 唉唷 中部差不多在中輪這裡這裡的水也夠這個地底下的溫度也夠所以這個地方適合開發溫泉"},{"start":410.928,"end":424.081,"text":"但是我覺得這樣的話野心是不夠的啊如果他可以再往下再深挖一點溫度會提高到了100度以上甚至到150度的話那為什麼我們不朝向這裡來做地熱的一個開發呢"},{"start":427.144,"end":448.909,"text":"來有請主委這個部分我們再跟那個經濟部那一邊去商量一下因為加入委員的委員那個資料是不是可以分享給我們可以啊可以啊因為這個是第一個是中友的採購事業部另外一份是過去一個專家學者的研究意見我再跟那個工部長這一邊反映一下"},{"start":449.589,"end":474.402,"text":"我覺得說台灣正好在我們嘉義中輪這個區段有這麼好的一個天然的一個地熱的一個優勢我覺得我們主委這部分可以好好來然後最後再問一個就是說因為我們知道說現在面對整個世界半導體整個AI的趨勢那揮打領軍的現在對於AI的需求越來越大"},{"start":475.723,"end":496.645,"text":"台灣我們所扮演的就是由台積電他們所提供的一個晶片甚至這個晶片經過先進的封裝就是揮打他們現在一定最需要的一個晶片那我們現在國家也宣示了我們將投入所謂矽光紙的一個國家隊那我想要請教主委"},{"start":498.206,"end":508.991,"text":"我們的總預算新興計畫是延宕的那我們這個矽光子的國家對的推動會出現怎樣的障礙可不可以主委您稍微分析一下公聽怎麼看待這件事啊"},{"start":509.727,"end":534.828,"text":"就假如說預算沒有辦法順利的話那對於我們整個在人才啦以及整個的那個時程的部件上面來講的話會有蠻嚴重的一個延宕那甚至就是說在這個矽光子這個部分來講的話我們是希望就是說矽光子這個技術能夠在繼續的精進那雖然說我們目前在矽光子以及矽光子的封裝"},{"start":535.749,"end":558.769,"text":"這個部分來講的話我們的技術算是全世界獨有的那我們也希望在這個部分 雖然是世界頂尖啦 最讚的啦可是他就是在台積電啦 可是我們知道說你台積電他需要人才啊 他需要這些人啊這些人就是要我們現在說的四方子國家隊把他整個從人才鏈到研究產官學研 這整塊要起來 這是要經費研的"},{"start":562.452,"end":572.418,"text":"這樣的話 我覺得 主委 我們既然這段會出狀況 應該要講給社會聽 要講多一點這件事就太嚴重了世界的趨勢 整個AI的浪潮不可擋的情況之下我們既然就因為中醫生 讓我們的新興計畫沒辦法來執行哇 這個真的是很誇張了今年已經三月了 已經過四分之一了中醫生都還沒出來 這真的很慘"},{"start":591.371,"end":593.897,"text":"好 主委辛苦了好 謝謝委員謝謝蔡議員令人感動的資訊"}]}},{"id":"167517","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167517","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6efa64c00dff256ad9a7ba446ded26d6bbfd7ce027fbc82e0af1408e11982b4235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"11:35:24 - 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我們有請我們副部長請副部長"},{"start":10.41,"end":33.461,"text":"華偉很好 副部長 副部長 因為本席這兩年其實都在內政第一次到國防外交來那國防外交其實它是一個相對專業而且嚴肅的問題所以很多問題就會跟副部長來就教那我們最近從烏克蘭的戰爭還有以色列的衝突我們可以檢視到一件事情就是世界各國這個先前的防空飛彈系統它到底有沒有用"},{"start":34.181,"end":57.094,"text":"那就以我們這個烏俄戰爭以來全球都注意到大量的無人機是未來戰爭的這個趨勢那與此同時呢俄羅斯也在2024年首次把這個極音速就是高超音速的這個飛彈武器投入實戰裡面那在去年九月的時候我們看到這個北京大閱兵中國也展示了他數種極音速的飛彈從反艦到對地一應俱全"},{"start":61.716,"end":70.886,"text":"那所以部長所以請問你看見世界各國這個防空飛彈系統目前對於極音速飛彈的這個防禦效果是有用還是沒有用"},{"start":72.974,"end":92.009,"text":"第一個委員所提這個無人機的飽和攻擊的確是未來還有這個這個飛彈的攻擊確實是未來戰場上重要的一個威脅那我們現在在構築這個台灣之盾的這個整個整體防禦系統最主要就是我們希望能夠做到高度"},{"start":92.89,"end":109.959,"text":"高度感知這件事情這是我們要建設非常多的sensor去了解敵人去發射不管他的極音速跟這個彈道飛彈或者是巡弋飛彈知道要怎麼發射那第二個我們分高中低層來運用不同的武器來攔截他第三個是有效攔截"},{"start":110.599,"end":131.005,"text":"那剛剛您講這個所有的飛彈目前的整個全世界的防空飛彈防禦系統它確實沒有辦法去達到百分之百它只能從這個有效的攔截率去檢討相對應的這個防空飛彈如何能夠有效的攔截所以對於這個攔截它"},{"start":132.925,"end":153.504,"text":"當然對於防空系統上面沒辦法去達到百分之百但是它確實是相對應的防空武器確實有它所以我們為了因應整個中國解放軍的這個武力的威脅所以我們極力的發展這個台灣之盾嘛那台灣之盾是未來要整合整個美美制的還有我們國造的這些飛彈系統來做完整的這個防空體系嘛對不對部長是"},{"start":155.246,"end":169.665,"text":"我們在盤點整個防空體系,大概六種主要的防空武器就是像中科院自己研發的強攻飛彈,就是天空四行然後還有號稱可以射高達到70公里,會站在攔截的第一線"},{"start":171.626,"end":194.777,"text":"還有愛國者 愛三飛行的真誠型天空飛彈三型的飛彈還有NASA這些都是為了要做我們完整我們的台灣之盾不過我們在這一次伊朗戰爭裡面看到日本好像在這一次的戰爭發現到一些事情就是它那個極音速飛彈的破壞力它後面很多都是中二的技術資源"},{"start":195.797,"end":200.041,"text":"所以他現在極力地要爭取金瓊金瓊是一個多層防導彈的防護系統主要目的是保護美國本土不要被洲際飛彈、超速飛彈、巡弋飛彈攻擊所以它的架構類似於二十世紀八零年代智能暖室的概念"},{"start":220.259,"end":227.688,"text":"那我想要請問布副長就是說台灣之盾跟美國現在這個金瓊是哪一個更能夠防守吸引數飛彈的攻擊"},{"start":229.104,"end":251.483,"text":"我簡單跟委員報告就是這個金瓊跟台灣之盾它確實在這個構想還有層次上面有不太一樣第一個部分是美國防空系統這個有關美國金瓊的這個防空系統那最主要是因應整個全球威脅來做部署那台灣的部分是防禦我們整個本島防衛為主"},{"start":253.024,"end":274.841,"text":"那第二個部分就是層次上面會不同因為美國的金瓊它區分了太空、高空、中空以及低空四個層次那就我們目前構築台灣之盾是因應敵情威脅去檢討高中低層那第三個不是武器系統如果這兩個比較起來我們哪一個更適合如果為了安全來說哪一個更適合台灣"},{"start":276.296,"end":291.568,"text":"目前來看是台灣之頓比較適合因為你要考量到整個建制的經費以及需求以及防衛的需求上面去做檢討那另外一個問題要提到就是說其實很多會員都提到說"},{"start":292.489,"end":310.523,"text":"是當現在世界各地的主要戰場都跟美國相關的時候他武器的製造跟運輸就非常非常的重要哪些國家可以拿到武器哪些國家必須等待這個一定有先後的問題嘛對不對那如果說我們中華民國現在如同國防部所說的必須要積極的防衛的話"},{"start":312.403,"end":325.231,"text":"我們要重視這個問題就是武器要趕快拿到手那部長美國提供武器是不是有先後順序是第一個問題第二個是台灣是不是列為優先的國家那如果不是的話要怎麼解決"},{"start":329.664,"end":353.1,"text":"鮑遠在近期美國宣布的資訊裡面,他已經提到了兩個重點第一個是願意針對自己的國防進行高額投資的國家第二個具有戰略關鍵性的國家我們台灣位於整個第一島鏈防守的關鍵位置所以當然我們在戰略上原本就具有重要性"},{"start":354.488,"end":369.161,"text":"在高額投資的部分,事實上我們在過去這段時間下來我們每年國防預算大概都以百分之八以上在逐年成長也展現了我們願意去投資我們的國防那最重要的就是我們在"},{"start":370.081,"end":389.048,"text":"這一次特別預算裡面所有軍購案的協調過程當中美方都強烈的表達對我們籌獲各式重要武器裝備的支持從這幾點就可以看得出來事實上美方把我們列為一個重要而且優先的一個供售對象所以可以確保台灣可以優先的拿到武器嗎"},{"start":391.144,"end":405.906,"text":"國外問題就是這樣,我們比較重要,我們的投資也比較多,我們是不是優先獲得採購武器的國家?這個是民眾很擔心的事情。我舉一個例子好了,我們籌購了82套的海馬式多管火箭飛彈系統,"},{"start":407.368,"end":427.337,"text":"事實上在同一個時間,跟美國籌購這個同類型系統的,不是只有我們而已。但是在這個部分,美國還是把我們列為一個優先工作的對象。所以我們這個部分,不僅優先獲得提供,而且他提供的套數也比其他的國家更多。"},{"start":428.285,"end":443.877,"text":"謝謝 因為其實本席以上的這些問題就是其實我們本席對軍購的態度都是支持的因為我們要買好的 要買用得到的然後最重要是可以及時叫貨的我想這個是這一次的重點那只要達到這些本席絕對支持我們國防的這些預算"},{"start":444.577,"end":471.196,"text":"那另外有幾個問題我大概再用點時間就是跟我們台東有相關跟國防相關的問題第一個就是在這個上個會期其實本席有跟國防部來反映就是台東的一些我們的漁民有來陳情就是演訓的時候他們都沒有辦法出海的事情那當時國防部也承諾說會避開漁訓然後盡量時間不要跟漁訓來做衝突那這部分再請國防部這邊來繼續來做加強那另外就是在於整個"},{"start":472.617,"end":488.851,"text":"市民也說我們都支持國防但是你也要給我們一條小路啦他們沒有辦法補貼的時候要相對的補貼也要給他們那公共部這邊也有做一些但是有一個就是在中科院好像沒有這部分的計畫所以這個也要請副副長是來來督促一下中科院說這邊呢趕快研議好中科院要回答"},{"start":497.777,"end":508.215,"text":"中科院現在的補助是針對我們九棚基地所在的範圍之內那有牽涉到的相關的漁會我們進行補助那台東這個部分的演訓因為"},{"start":509.574,"end":535.265,"text":"我們關閉的海域就在九鵬基地這個部分那後面我們會繼續再按委員要求去做更多的彈性對 這邊再請言因為它最後也不可能是用來用漁會的區來限制嘛對不對原本就是會移動的那還有就是最後一個問題就是也要幫我們國軍弟兄來講話那本期在選區服務的時候其實聽到很多國軍弟兄我們很好奇說 欸 你不是快退伍了嗎"},{"start":536.105,"end":559.023,"text":"他又留下來 他說因為他聽到加薪這件事情讓他覺得有正門的他說我決定留下來繼續再服務那這件事情是我自己的現任經驗我是義務役的軍醫下士我是一年四個月的醫期當年我們要退伍的時候部隊的指揮官都會要求我們希望我們能夠留下來 為什麼因為好不容易培養出來的這些"},{"start":560.164,"end":587.592,"text":"軍中的人才他會因為疫情結束而離開這對部隊來講是很大的損害我們投資這麼多在國防預算上面我們買這麼多武器最終還是需要有人才來使用人才是重點我相信副部長也很支持這些事情所以這個方面是不是請國防部隊我們一起來加油我們讓軍中的待遇 地區的待遇能夠再增加然後讓他們安心的可以留在部隊裡面服務那這部分 副部長是不是可以有更正面的回應"},{"start":588.433,"end":601.514,"text":"目前整個加薪的方案其實國安部已經有妥善的做一些規劃跟政策的說明那之前在之前已經也有詳細的做過報告謝謝副部長 以上質詢謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167516","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167516","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6b9594349b15a2ddd0bc6757ec415edbebfd7ce027fbc82e043cbf47c3bf192685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"11:32:30 - 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葉主委"},{"start":24.025,"end":40.054,"text":"委員長主委長我先請教啦就是你到現在為止還認為我們今年的GDP可以到7.7嗎我樂觀樂觀油價不會影響嗎油價已經漲了25%了油價30%了油價要看說它看那個中東這邊的軍事衝勢看起來短時間是打不完的"},{"start":50.319,"end":62.012,"text":"有國外的研究機構有指出說可能會在四周左右啦 但這個是一個...所以說不管幾周啊 現在已經破百了啊短期的話 我不希望...剛才主計長還說 只要油價漲10%"},{"start":68.539,"end":82.028,"text":"GDP就減少0.12那主計長給我們的公司就減少0.12現在已經漲了25%了現在已經漲了25%了所以就是等於要減10%是國際油價但是因為我們國內都有一些緩漲跟動漲的機制所以其實那個效果可能沒有那麼的嚴重像主計長這樣10% 0.12這樣子"},{"start":97.679,"end":114.839,"text":"打臉主機長喔沒有也不是打臉只是打臉主機長只是說那個那個那個那個那個比較的情境可能所以你會認為不管川普那邊怎麼打阿美尼拉斯怎麼打那麼這個7.77.7絕對是鐵的一定有"},{"start":118.944,"end":134.398,"text":"那個也要考慮啊我這一邊只是在進一步的說明就是說組長講的那個情境跟我們現在目前國內的情境可能有一些差異性這邊跟委員分他要講的就是國際油價他講的就是國際油價國內不管有沒有環長基本上來講是有影響的"},{"start":140.484,"end":159.5,"text":"不會沒有影響 會有影響 對但只是說那個影響是不是到0.12 10%會影響到0.12這個部分我們再細部的再來看所以你還是樂觀估算我們今年一定有7.7以上是不是假如這個軍事衝突在一定的時間之內解決的話一定時間是多長 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像30幾個一樣像中國它也有設 以色列也有設 韓國也有設那新加坡設的也有設 美國就沒有了啊有 美國他們有要推 也有設 現在為止沒有因為沒有辦法保證的啦大家都想說我多賺錢 問題要有料理"},{"start":326.034,"end":326.515,"text":"這部分還在評估啦要不要立特別法"},{"start":339.892,"end":343.295,"text":"我們這邊會建議用好強烈的反對無常的使用外匯這個請你記清楚謝謝委員主委先回座"}]}},{"id":"167529","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167529","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6c903dbcfd1573efa9a7ba446ded26d6bfe91a9b467d8c7ca417f76de9673b42b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"12:25:02 - 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有沒有包含 沒有你要說沒有包含防空系統其實"},{"start":262.156,"end":279.632,"text":"我們要強調的是在這次院版的項目裡面很重要的一項是C8SR系統跟人工智慧輔助決策的系統因為這個部分攸關到我們未來要去鏈結各式美照以及國照的武器系統"},{"start":280.333,"end":305.559,"text":"那這個部分如果缺了這個核心能量的話我們不但沒有辦法把目前所有包含雷達以及其他各式型之來源進行整合之外我們也沒有辦法針對未來我們所目前已經既有的防空系統還有未來籌貨的這個武器系統早期的來進行系統整合的這個工作那這個勢必會影響到後面我們整個戰力的行程"},{"start":306.089,"end":335.649,"text":"所以我必須要剛才這個有提到我們是要把各種武器的系統整合才能夠做有效的經濟的配置也就是說高中低也好當他們用比較高昂的這種保彈我們有用相應的這個防空系統來去應對當他們用比較低應該說比較低端的這種自殺型的無人機我們也有相對應的更加的便宜或者是說有經濟效益的無人機來去反制所以這不是買多少彈的問題這是整合的問題這同時你剛才提到的AI"},{"start":336.269,"end":357.712,"text":"一樣這一個在美方也是全面性的使用來去用AI來去區分哪些是高價值的必須要用空中的力量把它移除的哪些是中低價值的不需要移除的以及哪些是民用設施的必須要避免的所以現在大量的審核AI這些系統它是我們未來武器籌貨系統中的非常重要的一部分"},{"start":358.132,"end":372.929,"text":"如果沒有了那會對我國的防空會造成絕對的影響其實我剛才聽到很多在內黨的委員們都有提到對我國防空系統他們的不管是期許跟希望他怎麼樣來去完備也就是說我們的目的是一樣的那如果是目的是一樣的話為什麼他們會把這一個"},{"start":375.291,"end":401.138,"text":"在他們的條例裡面沒有包括我想可能是因為時間的因素或許是他們覺得時間緊迫所以他們趕快提出來的一個版本不具完備性那我想這個部分就是這個禮拜我們這個禮拜還有一整個禮拜的時間就好好的跟這些黨立委來去說明為什麼他們不把這個放進去裡面那是第一個部分那如果可以理解之後那我們才可以往前推進那第二個部分就是我們要跟國民也要跟國民說明"},{"start":401.758,"end":420.205,"text":"跟國民說明這樣他們才會給在野黨來去跟他們有點壓力讓他們慢慢地走向對台灣最有利的這個做法因為剛才提到的你說這個AI的整合也好或者是讓我們知道說不同的情資全部整合之後我們才能夠快速地判斷快速地判斷不僅是人為的判斷而且還是能夠"},{"start":421.385,"end":435.896,"text":"在所有的時效性的判斷這些全部都整合在一起我們才有辦法做到哪怕是以色列這樣子的等級包含這一次中東的戰爭我們應該很清楚的看到以色列的防空的機制還是起到很大的作用數百枚的飛彈跟"},{"start":438.038,"end":460.713,"text":"多波次的飛彈跟多波次的無人機但是他們的這個防空系統還是一樣的運作所以這就是一個很好的例子如果我們想要像他們一樣的話我們就必須付出代價而這個代價就是特別預算所以特別條例它是一個架構我們之後可以再做預算的細節哪些你覺得這是不必要的這一檔有權利來說這個不必要我們可以把它減少但是有條例之後才能夠有預算"},{"start":461.573,"end":482.709,"text":"如果條例都沒有具備的話那我們很難進入實質審查這個部分我們也要好好的跟在野黨來去說明希望能夠讓這個條例通過之後讓我們未來的預算再往前走那我還是要強調我們從以色列或整個中東的這一個戰爭我們可以看到很多的這個狀況除了以色列的成功之外我們必須要看一下包含防空系統之外"},{"start":484.335,"end":505.97,"text":"伊朗的武器的製造能力跟他持續的製造能力他把許多的工廠都地下化那包含導彈的這些儲存也都在地下化那我這邊想要請教包含副部長我國如果在面臨像是有具有接近空優的狀況之下有沒有持續製造的能力"},{"start":507.185,"end":527.879,"text":"至少在無人機的部分目前無人機的部分我們現在在提升國內的產能的部分目前自製的能力在健身型的部分是沒有問題第二個部分在有關供給型的部分也積極跟國內的廠商合作因為它需要一些火工作業的限制所以也積極在合作當中"},{"start":528.9,"end":548.421,"text":"所以我們現在自製無人機的能量區分三個部分一個部分是我們兼徵型跟國內的廠商來做第二個是跟軍備局的火工作業合作第三個部分是有關中科院他有相關能量從進風一型到進風四型持續在發展上我的意思是說生產的分散化跟未來有沒有機會地下化"},{"start":550.673,"end":569.823,"text":"現在這個地下化的部分我們後續可能要跟國內的廠商還有相關的單位去做一個檢討有關於這一點向委員報告我們現在第一動要做的是建立國內廠商的能量當然從俄烏戰爭也好還有美國國防部最近推動的作為也好產製無人機"},{"start":571.144,"end":595.043,"text":"他可以採取非常分散性的做法所以首先要有商購的能量出現先有企業紀錄我們才有辦法進入到下一個階段地下化等等的那最後一個問題時間有限我們的包含將軍到校級的軍官他的工作如果萬一遇到重大事故他有幾個人可以去做替補三級四級"},{"start":598.53,"end":617.72,"text":"目前我們是有5級代理人的制度有代理人的制度我們有暫時跟平時的5級代理人的制度平時都有奉合可不可以簡單簡述一下5級代理的意思是什麼比如說營級的話就是營長副營長還有參謀主任以及營服務部長向下代理"},{"start":624.079,"end":639.359,"text":"如果我國的防空系統比方說這個指揮官遇到重大事故那接下來他們都知道相關的指令那也有辦法繼續執行反擊的能力可以這麼說嗎"},{"start":640.134,"end":657.595,"text":"報告委員是,作息是說明我們在不管是5級代理人,就是指揮官的代理另外第二個是在指揮中心也有分散部署跟相互代理的機制不管是防空或者是地面作戰或是海域作戰的作戰指管都有相應的規劃跟計畫今天在座的諸位也都有相應的規劃"},{"start":659.647,"end":686.608,"text":"每一位都有因為我們都是公開行程那我看到許多我們的指揮官都在這邊那所以只是要確認一下所有的可能性的推演相關的職務代理必須要用非常認真的態度去執行那要確保說所有的指令或者是通訊的這些相關的密碼密令等等都必須要有人可以承接"},{"start":687.418,"end":687.439,"text":"好 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少子化就讓生小孩一胎十萬塊生育補儲等等38項718億這個民生總預算三讀通過組織總諸是不是就准許這個預算通知"},{"start":71.608,"end":96.608,"text":"我們已經詢問給各單位請他先行動之了可以先行動之了但是問題就是說這個部分他雖然先行動之但是他和預算三讀通過的效力是不一樣所以如果立法院將來審議預算的時候針對這些預算有所刪減他還是會產生一些的問題造成行政人員整身在挖蕩的一個你這個人很複雜主席"},{"start":101.212,"end":125.057,"text":"你先回答我就是說已經700多億是不是准你動之是不是我們已經請問請各單位簽願中請各單位來動之所以開始可以動之了已經在簽願了好 那個要請沈記長了沈記長對這個事情我們三讀同會雖然是總議院裡面抽出一部分"},{"start":128.079,"end":140.891,"text":"這個審計部的態度是什麼看這個事情預算法裡面如果有還沒有完成審理但是有經歷完先行同意動之的是可以執行的所以我們會參照這個718億原則上我們會看他的一個希望他能夠加強執行"},{"start":151.035,"end":164.09,"text":"阿如果像主計場講的說那718億不會有主計場講那個情況我們就通過了 三讀通過了不會有那種說通過以後還要把它刪減啦這個事情不會發生啦但是萬靈發生會怎麼樣審計審計長那個"},{"start":170.856,"end":180.782,"text":"行政院有一個暫停規定啦他到時候要調整但是 答應通過了我們是希望我們通過了就通過了啦這一部分就不再審了啦預算有審查的時候我們拿出來718億通過就通過了"},{"start":188.026,"end":214.937,"text":"就通過了深圳市的行政部門今天我是樂見我們的主計長啊所以已經動之了因為我一直有聽到一個聲音說喔 卡住了 你們還不動之不好 特別我要將一哥提醒主計長你的報告裡面第八頁就有提到了第八頁呢這個講了很多中間有一段我念給你聽了"},{"start":217.489,"end":239.335,"text":"五國社會保障總體有效覆蓋率由105年的91.5%逐年增加到94.8%主因最近政府持續推動少子化擴大扒篷 以而警惕就很清楚嘛 你自己說的這一次7181就是有這一條"},{"start":241.275,"end":260.707,"text":"所以我現在講一個就是說,主席長我樂見你這樣的回答,但是因為這個Echo啦,如果今天你說不可以動之後的,你的報告都叫寫喔。我再請教主席長,每以一啊,戰爭啊,持續啊,GDP要不要調整,今年度的預估還是7.7嗎?"},{"start":262.686,"end":282.159,"text":"第一個就是說看油價漲 成長的漲價的一個幅度油價已經漲破100啦是 但是現在以我們的物價來講因為我們有抑制它雙漲嘛 對不對所以目前我們有一個物價穩定小組那我們讓油價還漲那下來這樣子的一個虧損我們會做補貼那所以現在畢竟包括台油 中油台電還有台水相關請問喔 請問喔"},{"start":292.586,"end":320.862,"text":"你編預算沒有 他補貼多少 要補貼多少不是 這補貼是將來以後再已經補貼啦 已經原來漲五塊多 現在變成一塊多了所以他會變成我們都支持啦 我們都支持他會當成他吸收 他會當變成他當年度的虧損所以一般的虧損的部分我們就會透過增資的方式所以我的問題 等一下 等一下你沒聽我們有嗎所以我的問題就是GDP"},{"start":322.023,"end":335.122,"text":"按照主計程的講法GDP不會影響還是7.7%是不是 我就問你是不是GDP的部分這個部分我們是每三個月會做一個評估包括這個條件 包括數據"},{"start":337.205,"end":339.487,"text":"所以我們會做整個條件但是目前對每一個關稅的問題並沒有很大的影響那現在就是美伊戰爭的一個部分那如果說油價上漲10%對GDP影響0.12%"},{"start":357.045,"end":374.237,"text":"那所以以這樣來換算的部分那如果說這個部分這是一個變動的因素包括是不是還有其他一個變動因素我們都會列入考量然後在五月份的時候我們還在做一個修正是這樣子現在目前我們初估是7.71沒有錯"},{"start":379.921,"end":383.844,"text":"可是不用喔 妳剛剛講啦 油價沒漲10% GDP減0.1%對不對 好 那現在油價已經從80塊漲到100塊啦漲20 25%啦 漲25%啦 這樣就影響0.2%啦"},{"start":398.195,"end":411.585,"text":"是1.2啊是是嗎是照這樣換算所以整個是做依此來做變動的變幅所以就看油價的漲怎麼樣物價咧物價會漲0.240.24所以現在油價漲25%了已經漲25%了所以25%乘以0.24的物價就漲這樣子了是不是但是主計長我提醒你提醒你啦是"},{"start":427.486,"end":442.916,"text":"那個桶莊 瓦斯 小吃店小賣店 我們旁邊 立陶宛旁邊的小吃店是這樣 哀聲鈴鈴 笑苦連天因為瓦斯 桶莊瓦斯 一起啊是是 一起啊"},{"start":443.536,"end":459.235,"text":"是,這個部分呢,中油和台電它會有一些議職漲幅的一個措施出來那這個部分在行政院的一個穩定物價小組裡面都會討論我再問你喔,油價已經漲配牌了,現在是不是如此喔"},{"start":464.676,"end":484.681,"text":"中華去年度虧損91億,累積虧損811億,每年利息付出140億,三度提出增資,你們同意到增資嗎?所以今年他如果提出增資,我們會把他列入考量經濟部,他已經有跟經濟部提出要增資"},{"start":486.262,"end":488.743,"text":"這個部分3500億他什麼時候要提出來什麼時候要提出來116年度中長城計畫的時候我們希望他能夠他在115年2月已經跟經濟部提出來了主席長 同意"},{"start":501.272,"end":519.707,"text":"不是 這個部分我們預算編列會有他一定的一個程序會先到中長城的一個計畫去審什麼時候可以確定要給他增資 什麼時候可以確定大概今年的七月七月 來 沈記長你看一下好不好周明兒現在此夕開所你要替增資 沈記長的態度是什麼"},{"start":522.989,"end":535.318,"text":"中油連續五年多虧損不是光現在所以我們是希望中油能夠減少不經濟輸出增進一些效能"},{"start":537.139,"end":549.803,"text":"注意要不要爭執我們尊重行政院的態度因為這個時代 這個時機啊因為有這樣的困難總有會講啊 總有會講啊所有的虧損都是配合政策啊補貼稅虧損虧到這樣啊你怪我 你不用怪我啊來 那個 沈記長"},{"start":556.085,"end":575.299,"text":"因為中油有一個油價的調漲基礎他根據他購買的原料他會慢慢慢慢...原來有個公司現在政府因為局勢世界中東在打仗所以給他動場這個局勢動場產生的虧損我是同意組織長或者同意行政院的做法這個"},{"start":583.064,"end":600.911,"text":"因為政府的力量介入 造成中國的虧損這塊要政府扛啦 不能夠叫中國扛啦好 最後我同意好 最後一個來那個主席長請回喔 我就問一下沈記長111年了 國內有暗網兜售台灣2300多萬人的個資啦你有沒有立案調查 有調查結果勒"},{"start":610.243,"end":633.168,"text":"正在調查 什麼時候的結果我們大概列底他們去採抽的人員會回來有受害的民眾去提告就在我的選區 告到台北高等行政法院還贏呢 還贏呢他就告內政部 他贏囉"},{"start":638.869,"end":652.547,"text":"我就問審計長的態度美金有民眾提告他的個人權利受損所以呢他就提告北高行台北高等行政法院判他贏內政部輸"},{"start":654.076,"end":659.82,"text":"所以 審計部的立場我們會根據審計發現 審計事實來做處理這個我們已經通知了國安署那個 珠安署這個很重要好不好我們把它當作因為這個珠安是國家的重點我們一定會配合你同時調查一下這是內政部的啦還有我們健保署"},{"start":681.636,"end":688.508,"text":"的資料也是被倒也被倒出去的那是早期早期我們一族也再追你再追一下好不好好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167471","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167471","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f663d3ff39774fc3860bc6757ec415edbe52953553f5c94752c51c5fd7770ca2cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴瑞隆","委員發言時間":"09:30:16 - 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存照主席指示好 請內閣同委員謝謝來 請議主委請國安委議主委"},{"start":21.749,"end":47.496,"text":"主委我先請教一下其實去年整個台灣的經濟狀況表現相當的良好很強勁大概是這15年來最佳也是全球第二整個經濟成長率那今年大概預估上看7.7主委你也是經濟學者出身的那你怎麼來看待這個台灣現在整個經濟的道路上包括我們在整個是不是走到一個正確的道路上那今年的整個經濟狀況你怎麼來看"},{"start":48.576,"end":70.57,"text":"我覺得今年的整個經濟狀況的話主技術預估7.7%我覺得還是蠻有機會可以達成那最主要原因就是因為我們的出口會持續的跟去年一樣那因為全球的CSP的大廠大幅度的增加他的資本支出那原本很多預設機構都預估大概只有6100億美元左右但後來都慢慢一直在調升調升那調到現在目前大概有7500億美元左右"},{"start":76.914,"end":106.194,"text":"那這也是為什麼就是說很多機構對於今年的經濟成長的預估他都一直在上調的原因那主計總處大概比較前進一點他調的比較多那我想也最主要看到就是說因為整個台灣的出口相對非常的暢旺那帶動了國內的一些民間的投資還有整個經濟的活動越來越活絡那尤其是我們股市"},{"start":107.274,"end":128.676,"text":"那成績要量一直在創新高所以這也帶動我們國內一些消費的因素所以主委其實也是更認同這個主席總書甚至於更看好有機會更突破這個數字啦好我們當然期待了那另外當然是經濟景氣的部分現在看來這兩個月都是紅的這兩個都是紅的那主委怎麼看呢今年剛開年的狀況一直到年底"},{"start":130.94,"end":148.277,"text":"我覺得這一個部分來講的話景氣燈號我想應該有機會持續的再紅下去因為我們去年來講的話因為出口暢旺的關係對 出口暢旺的關係因為我們去年來講的話各位想像去年這個時候的話其實我們的出口大致上還維持一個平穩狀態"},{"start":149.238,"end":173.43,"text":"但是在4月2號從川普宣布的那個對等關稅之後的話整個出口有稍微下跌但後來又逆勢爬上來所以我覺得今年就整個機器來看的話我覺得今年還是相對的蠻樂觀的所以除了也是相樂觀那我看了一下整個在製造業的部分其實包括台積電也看好我們包括電子機械鋼鐵石化在今年的景氣狀況也會不錯"},{"start":175.231,"end":201.54,"text":"主委怎麼看對尤其我覺得就這個部分來講的話尤其是機械以及工具機這個部分還有鋼鐵這個部分假如說我們的那個ART跟MOU能夠順利的通過的話我覺得對於傳產這個部分來講會有很大的一個激勵的作用對我們的技術產業會是一份一個重要的一個強心針特別是鋼鐵這一段時間比較辛苦一點但是我們也希望第二季之後能夠有一個好的狀況"},{"start":202.52,"end":218.381,"text":"那工具機跟所有的包括這些電子看起來整個狀況應該是會越來越好我整理上來看那這樣我就要回來問了我們的總預算到現在還沒有過這個對於我們今年的整個這些經濟狀況包括經濟生產力會不會受到影響如果持續沒有過的話"},{"start":219.717,"end":246.137,"text":"當然就我剛剛跟各位報告就是說我自己就是統籌的統籌這個部分來講的話311億裡面大概有102億被卡在那個預算沒有辦法過主委如果我們看整個總的因為國發會算是一個小內閣也算是政府的一個大佬的角色如果 而且你也是經濟學的出身的如果這個總預算遲遲的卡住的話我們看的裡面其實有很多包括將近3000億的部分"},{"start":247.478,"end":265.229,"text":"如果此時沒有審的話他會影響到我們後續的一些新增計畫包括我們延續性的計畫的增加的部分甚至於一些預備金的運用這個會不會影響到我們經濟跟我們整個產業的一些發展這當然會因為就整個單從整個政府支出來講的話假如3000億沒有辦法通過的話對於整個國家的GDP的影響的話至少當然有0.01%左右"},{"start":272.053,"end":297.383,"text":"百分之0.1的影響0.01的影響那就整個的他所帶出來的一些外溢的效果的話所以你的0.1只是初估因為他還沒有估到外溢上可能會產生的效果甚至很多的所以我覺得這一塊恐怕也要讓國人更加清楚也要讓立法院的朝野更加清楚這個無論如何不應該讓整個總預算審查影響到國家整個經濟發展跟整個產業上的發展"},{"start":301.905,"end":329.917,"text":"這個可不可以請主委再估算的更清楚一點給我一個數字好不好我希望知道比如說如果我們拖到因為現在看來已經開億了那如果在今年的上半年沒辦法完成總預算的審查這些將近3000億是無法動之的話那對我們的經濟的包括成長率對我們整個所有的這些會產生多大的一個影響這個會請一個禮拜內給我一個評考因為就好像我剛剛跟各位報告就是說我們國內的GDP的產值目前為止的話大概有33兆左右"},{"start":330.336,"end":357.93,"text":"那你再除以大概把它乘以百分之一的話大概就是大概是三千億左右所以這個是我目前大概你用這樣出推但是它一樣會有擴散的效果會有一些成熟效果對這個部分我因為我覺得你也是專家學者也是院長對這些事項要了解我也希望了解一下同時也讓社會各界知道它的影響層面有多大那我覺得可能立法院也要審慎來評估不要因為政治上的因素而影響到國家整體的一個方向"},{"start":358.65,"end":379.7,"text":"再來我請教一下這個大南方新矽谷的這個產業這個也是相當重要其實很多的不管是水到再生水廠到電到各方面這個都持續在發展中那這個如果遲遲不通過其實對南方上面大南方的整個新矽谷是很不公平它影響到的嘉義台南高雄屏東都會影響到所以我也希望這塊持續來加速來通過"},{"start":383.381,"end":397.727,"text":"接下來我想問的因為時間很有限我再問一下那我們的國防特別預算如果他沒有辦法通過的話除了我們的國安的問題跟對美的關係對世界各國的關係以外對我們的產業會不會產生一些重大的影響"},{"start":399.04,"end":417.023,"text":"這個部分當然就是說會接連的會影響到整個國防相關的一些供應鏈的一些問題那譬如說像我們國際國造 國建國造這個部分的進程的話就會被拖慢很多甚至無人機 甚至AI相關的產業嘛 這很多是坐落在"},{"start":417.884,"end":436.304,"text":"台灣的甚至於坐在中南部的文載劇的文件的這些的甚至AI的這個都是那如果我們遲遲沒有辦法來它不只影響到我們國家安全同時影響到我們產業的一個進展對當然這個部分主委有推估過嗎如果不過了跟不過的話對於我們"},{"start":437.665,"end":461.697,"text":"整個產業跟經濟上面的一些影響這部分我目前還沒有資料我是不是等會後也幫我一樣推估看看好不好就是說也讓社會各界更理性的思考這問題它不只是涉及到台灣的國家安全涉及到台灣的外交它也涉及到台灣的整個產業的轉型台灣的升級甚至有很多的產業對這個如果我們政府有挹注到我們本土的產業我們的無人載具我們的AI的這個產業的話它有機會整個升級的好不好"},{"start":463.718,"end":492.389,"text":"這也請主委是不是一樣也一個禮拜的時間也評估一下你們的狀況讓我知道一下最後我再請教一下採劃法的部分其實對於南部其實很不公平這個採劃法所以院版也出來了那但是如果這個採劃法遲遲不通院版遲遲不通過的話其實光高雄就實質損失的目前算起來是144億而捷運的這個短缺就103億這個我想要也請主委幫忙能不能也協調院方那邊也協調一下"},{"start":493.089,"end":508.204,"text":"包括相關的單位裡面讓這些重大的建設不要受到影響就整個軌道建設跟那個捷運建設的話院目前的立場是都不會會優先來質疑嘛對不對不會受到影響嗎 這個很重要因為"},{"start":509.405,"end":535.025,"text":"台北的捷運其實雙北的快速的興建完成了那中南部其實都包括邱委員的往北的包括我們我跟李大委員往南的甚至於黃線都積蓄這些經費那沒拖延有可能就拖延一兩年這個對當地的鄉親是很影響很大的好不好請主委大力來協助推動所以院版的那一個裁判法通過的話其實對於地方跟中央這是第一個第二個也是希望能夠盡快的讓整個補款項能夠補進來的好謝謝"},{"start":539.622,"end":540.066,"text":"好 謝謝代表委員"}]}},{"id":"167476","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167476","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f683485d7aebd9a59cf4d454d79684183a52953553f5c94752f8e03f26c378850b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"09:35:03 - 09:44:21","影片長度":"00:09:18","會議時間":"2026-03-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況(含上會期臨時提案辦理情形)，並備質詢。二、審查委員林俊憲等23人擬具「市區道路條例第二十三條條文修正草案」案。【僅詢答】【3月16日及18日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-03-16","start_time":"2026-03-16T09:35:03+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-16T09:44:21+08:00","duration":558,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-5-15-2"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.8278437500000004,"end":6.342218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.79784375,"end":9.447218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.852218750000002,"end":10.864718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.855968750000002,"end":14.189093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.922843750000002,"end":42.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.405968750000003,"end":31.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.09721875,"end":35.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.94409375,"end":43.737218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.99034375,"end":76.86284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.20034375,"end":87.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.43909375000001,"end":93.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.82221875,"end":134.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.82409375,"end":141.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.35909375,"end":147.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.63659375,"end":156.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.60971875,"end":171.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.08471875,"end":172.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.59471875,"end":172.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.83096875,"end":172.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.93221875,"end":172.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.94909375,"end":173.47221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.47221875000002,"end":185.31846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.52284375000002,"end":174.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.14221875,"end":180.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.09909375,"end":259.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.44034375,"end":189.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.63596875,"end":297.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.68096875000003,"end":297.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.06034375,"end":303.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.70471875000004,"end":320.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.57784375,"end":308.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.68721875,"end":310.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.60534375000003,"end":356.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.82346875,"end":329.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.96909375,"end":342.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.43284375,"end":344.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.06971875000005,"end":347.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.13221875000005,"end":353.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.83471875000004,"end":365.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.42534375,"end":369.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.92659375000005,"end":407.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.47784375000003,"end":438.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.28721875,"end":441.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.47659375,"end":443.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.89409375,"end":468.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.71721875000003,"end":472.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.37909375000004,"end":477.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.36971875,"end":479.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.07409375000003,"end":553.8178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.00909375000003,"end":492.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.27034375000005,"end":494.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.63659375000003,"end":500.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.96846875000006,"end":510.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.26284375,"end":514.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.5872187499999,"end":517.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.4640937500001,"end":524.3034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.1828437500001,"end":540.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.80284375,"end":542.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.26534375,"end":552.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.72471875,"end":556.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.86784375,"end":558.96471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.834,"end":13.883,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我請劉部長還有我們地政司司長有請劉部長還有林司長"},{"start":19.934,"end":41.969,"text":"請問一下住宅三法現在院都還沒有預告我想請問一下你們的草案什麼時候會提出來住宅三法 報告委員我們上個會期住宅法已經修正通過一部分的條文請問一下我在這邊特別關心的就是租賃住宅的這個管理條例"},{"start":43.17,"end":60.036,"text":"因為我要特別說的是大家在談這個所謂的居住正義那最近我們在看這個整個的房租雖然這個主計處他最新公布的有關於CBI房租的租金的漲幅現在看起來比較趨於緩和但是但是長期以來在我們都會區七都來說這個租金的漲幅"},{"start":70.959,"end":87.478,"text":"一年的租金漲幅多的話都可以達到8%以上像我們台北市8%以上那也有去統計就是我們的薪資的漲幅比如說過去五年來薪資的漲幅大概只有2%左右但是"},{"start":88.579,"end":94.76,"text":"租金的漲幅可以到10%或20%所以顯然是完全不平衡的那我想請問一下我們現在所在推動的租賃住宅的這個管理條例裡面有關於就是說要如何的去讓租金能夠動漲然後讓這個整個的租約能夠穩定我想這事實上是在整個的這個房屋市場大家在高度關注的"},{"start":117.245,"end":134.754,"text":"所以我想請問若部長搞不清楚的話是不是可以請司長回答我就是你們這個就是住在三法裡面特別是在租金租賃市場的部分你們什麼時候預告然後這個方向是不是已經確定了"},{"start":135.905,"end":155.963,"text":"有關租賃條例的部分,當然我們都會關心租客自己本身的權益剛剛委員所提到的部分,現在都還沒確定但是我們研議的方向,我請市長跟您報告一下我關心的是第一個,是不是確定要保限制三年的租金不得上漲"},{"start":157.98,"end":171.38,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們租賃條例之前提出來規劃方向第一個是保障雙方的一個租房客房東的權益包含面對不良的房東房客如何處理時間有限喔那個部分沒有問題我們把它縮小"},{"start":173.643,"end":182.285,"text":"那第二個部分有關於租期跟租金漲幅的限制的部分我們之前有開公聽會這個方向確定了嗎這個部分的話大家的意見比較分歧所以我們現在也在做一個研議當中所以這個部分還沒有完全的確定對現在的話還沒有關於我要特別說的就是這個利益良善希望能夠讓租金動漲但是我們比較擔心的就如同比如說你一杯咖啡"},{"start":201.471,"end":221.167,"text":"一杯咖啡我要規定他三年你不能漲價但是呢這個時候呢我非常有可能你規定我三年不能漲價那麼我現在賣的時候我就先漲價所以可能造成整個的租金第一波就開始整個的上漲所以這個是非常非常特別要注意的所以到目前為止你們還在研議還沒有完全確定我要特別說的部長我希望我們在談這個居住正義因為我們的社宅現在的這個"},{"start":231.315,"end":245.071,"text":"數量其實已經跳票了原來要從13萬戶變成4萬戶但是呢有關於租金的負擔率租金負擔率我希望內政部要有一個目標"},{"start":246.132,"end":262.063,"text":"以我們雙北來講如果你在這個整個的租金市場很多人都講我今天付租金大概是我薪資的一半以上這事實上對於大部分的上班族民眾他的負擔是非常非常的重"},{"start":263.004,"end":281.41,"text":"那我們合理的租金應該把他起碼起碼把他加到三成以下能不能用這個目標來往前面進行否則的話我們談了十多年的居住正義談到現在租金依然高房價依然偏高居住正義永遠沒有辦法實現"},{"start":283.631,"end":299.566,"text":"報告委員,有關於社宅的部分中央跟地方合在一起的數目之中央是負擔三分之二然後地方負擔三分之一那我們還是朝著這方面來前進那剛剛委員所關心的,就是客人自己本身目前都是滾動性在檢討剛剛民主票叫滾動性檢討,再來"},{"start":306.635,"end":329.491,"text":"租金負擔率租金負擔率剛剛你所提到租金負擔的比例的部分你所提到就是有關於寫在文字上面跟沒有寫在文字上面隱藏性的租金到底在什麼地方其實我們的相關單位也在查查就是包括它到底是不是水電費或是其他的部分把它弄出來之後公佈於是所以我希望你們因為我待會還有一個很重要的題目我希望你們把這個租金負擔率把它"},{"start":336.375,"end":347.74,"text":"至少在初階要把他定位在在我們的這個薪資的三成以下好不好 因為這才是比較稍微合理的部分但是還要看他的地點啦沒有錯沒有錯啊 可是我們就要努力啊時間暫停一下我請一下我們移民署的署長好嗎"},{"start":366.459,"end":389.01,"text":"還是請部長往前因為這個是涉及政策部長這個事實上我在之前的會期我就有提出來因為我們現在大家都說軍警消 軍警消事實上裡面也包含海巡還有我們的移民署移民署過去很多同仁是從警察分出來的這個應該您很清楚"},{"start":389.89,"end":406.931,"text":"但是我們現在的這個照護方案就是比較軍人的照護方案不管是他的就醫或者他有沒有這個優惠方案在整個的軍警警消海巡裡面這個的方案獨獨遺漏移民署的同仁"},{"start":407.692,"end":426.658,"text":"我認為這非常不合理第一個移民署的同仁我講過去他們很多都是警方出身的那另外就是移民署的同仁他在第一線執勤的時候他跟警消很多也同樣具有危險性"},{"start":427.838,"end":437.767,"text":"過去我們移民署頭人其實受傷的啦或者在第一線執勤的時候被攻擊所在多有多有聽聞所以部長我為什麼要請你來答覆"},{"start":442.54,"end":462.081,"text":"我們內政部可不可以把這個照護方案獨立移民署的部分把這個洞給補起來讓我們移民署的同仁不會變成好像你的次等同仁在照護方案的時候能夠一律的能夠一視同仁"},{"start":462.401,"end":476.643,"text":"可不可以謝謝王委員的關心我在過年期間也到專請隊去確實有這樣的現象現在我們的裝備跟配備我們希望可以比照警政署同時您剛所提到的照顧方案的部分我們也希望可以比照現在這個在爭取當中"},{"start":478.405,"end":501.713,"text":"好大概什麼時候給我們一點時間來協調因為不會是只有內政部我們還要協調其他的相關單位譬如說像人總他們要同意這樣子的一個方法是不是可以一起試用但是他們的心情程度我們都非常清楚我知道那可不可以今年上半年之前把這整個事情定案可以吧報告委員定案我不敢講但是朝著這個方向我們來協調一定會告訴我們現在的協調方向"},{"start":505.134,"end":526.825,"text":"所以你這邊就是答應我嗎就是未來移民署的同仁我有講到我會來爭取但是因為不一定是由我們來單獨決定所以我們必須要有點時間讓人家有這個協調的空間但是我相信內政部去爭取的話對於移民署同仁來講他們可以感受到這份的關心和溫暖然後我也希望能夠在今年上半年能夠把這個案子定案"},{"start":528.886,"end":552.74,"text":"因為剛才特別提到就是我們現在包含我們首都的這個警消的加擠這部分我是肯定的不是首都是全台灣都有當然因為我是台北市嘛我們長期在對不起我們長期在爭取的是首都加擠當然你是全台灣加擠我們也很肯定但是我覺得就是像這個照覆方案能夠不要遺漏就不要遺漏好不好謝謝委員好 謝謝"},{"start":557.936,"end":558.343,"text":"接下來我們請王美紅"}]}},{"id":"167475","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167475","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f608195b7eba3327a2f4d454d79684183a52953553f5c94752f8e03f26c378850b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"09:24:33 - 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謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員 各位媒體朋友 大家早安有請劉世芳 劉部長 檢證署張署長 國土署蔡署長還請部長署長"},{"start":24.721,"end":36.237,"text":"部長早 首先還是這是這個會期第一次質詢本席在這邊還是要感謝內政部跟所屬單位過去的辛勞 那也期待這個會期大家一起努力"},{"start":37.421,"end":61.886,"text":"好 那首先還是要先請教一下我們內政部這次的業務匯報裡面聚集在幾個最近這個有很多這個大家所重視以及我們很多基層的核心的問題主要要請教的就是最近剛剛我們前面有委員有提到說這個最近內政部有提高這個景銷的這個景情加急的一個部分"},{"start":62.586,"end":82.595,"text":"那我覺得這個是非常好的一件事情那加擠的金額大概約兩千多元那可是本席這邊還是要為這個我們很多的基層的警察尤其是警察來發聲因為就最近上個月的新聞表示我們現在警察的缺額已經連續三年的缺額人數"},{"start":83.575,"end":112.568,"text":"呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃"},{"start":112.868,"end":133.966,"text":"想要請部長跟署長來協助的地方所以本席在這邊講其實基層警察他們的這個本縫是非常的低啊他們的薪水都要靠這個加給來去做把他們的薪水提高所以看起來很高事實上是很低尤其他們以後退休的時候是用本縫來去看他們未來的退休的狀況"},{"start":134.907,"end":162.502,"text":"所以我在這邊是不是說既然我們都可以讓我們的基層的警察的薪水整體的提高是不是這個會期部長跟署長我們可以來討論是不是我們的警察的職等跟諷點有沒有機會來提高比如說舉例諷點的部分同樣是公務人員警察的諷點他的折算率就比公務人員低所以很多警察覺得這非常不公平為什麼這個警察的諷點"},{"start":163.562,"end":188.443,"text":"會比公務人員低那是不是可以建議有沒有辦法這個折算率可以把它取消讓警察的縫點警察非常辛苦而且警察現在很多的他的教育水平也非常的高是不是可以跟公務人員比照一樣的縫點那第二個就是職等的問題現在基層警員的職等三到五職等是不是可以提升到建六提升到六職等然後可以不用經過考試來請部長署長回答"},{"start":191.884,"end":219.176,"text":"謝謝張委員的關心我想對於警察福利的爭取大概就是不分黨派大家都會極力爭取因為警員真的是非常的辛苦我想應該就是警消都非常辛苦但是委員剛所提到就是說要修改這個縫點等等這些就是我們跟一般的公務人員不太一樣而且在修改的過程當中我們確實會需要跟這個包括考試院在內或是人事行政總署"},{"start":220.356,"end":246.144,"text":"做一下專案性的討論那至於這奉典上面怎麼比序會比較好我是不是請那個署長跟你回應一下非常謝謝委員的支持檢查的這個待遇跟整個升遷那對於檢查人員的這個福利跟一般公園是不一樣的包括我們的奉典的算法跟我們是警佐警政跟警監那跟一般的檢監委的一般公園是不同的"},{"start":246.644,"end":269.103,"text":"那對於這個 我們要考慮要提升 對那這個部分我們想就是我們會來做跟相關單位來做一個一個研議就好像我們對於我們的景形加息我們也經過努力之後終於在去年行政院也有做核定那至於這一個等階的這個部分那我們也會來做一個跟相關單位來做一個研議也謝謝委員給我們時間我們對於奉典"},{"start":272.446,"end":301.239,"text":"跟這個等階 足的等階我們來嚴厲來做對遠景做最好的一個幫助那請問有沒有請問署長大概要多久的時間那我們可能要跟考試院跟人總來做一個協調那是不是給我們三個月的時間來做這樣的一個溝通因為這個是對制度性架構比較大的一個方向那我們來做因為有一些也是整個全國是橫平性的一個問題"},{"start":302.259,"end":319.574,"text":"那我們朝這兩方向來做一個原因好謝謝署長為什麼我要這樣提因為現在很多這個很多畢業生他們又說如果他的薪水跟警察差不多那不如他去做工程師因為工程師也輪班制嘛那還沒有像警察一樣下訪一樣這麼有危險性所以要拜託署長多多幫忙謝謝謝委員"},{"start":321.576,"end":335.441,"text":"那再來我想要請教就是其實在上個會期我想要請教就是光電這個要裝置在屋頂板的這個問題啊其實上個會期我就請教這個部長跟國土事業的署長就是說這個問題點就是說"},{"start":339.322,"end":368.154,"text":"我們本來這樣子現在的草案喔已經本來是說我們還要再繼續研議喔然後現在已經變成說今年8月1號要上路就是整個草案的內容就是要強制我們現在所有的住宅不管是一般住宅商辦工廠等等的這個建築面積在1000平方公尺以上要強制設置光電板那這個本來是說我記得我第一次問部長的時候部長是說本來是只有在工廠"},{"start":369.074,"end":390.335,"text":"跟公有建物可是不知道為什麼感覺起來好像文內政部被經濟部綁架現在8月1號就要草草上路所以可是我想要請問部長跟署長的部分現在這樣子這麼大的一個變化要要求所有的建物一般的建物包含是住宅那本席在這邊也屢次提到說這樣會影響到尤其是都會區的這個問題"},{"start":393.638,"end":402.826,"text":"不管是住宅的安全以及未來很多的維護等等的狀況那我想要請教內政部的確是要8月1號就要上路嗎"},{"start":405.175,"end":433.641,"text":"來 請說報告委員確實沒有錯我們跟經濟部一起會嫌的時候是依照再生能源條例在115年8月1號開始施行但是我們在施行的時候是對於新建或者是改建的面積的時候做設置委員一再都是很關心說建築尤其是屋頂上面如果有安全上的顧慮的話怎麼樣處理相關的部分我是不是請蔡署長跟您簡單回覆好 謝謝署長"},{"start":435.368,"end":460.049,"text":"市長確定這個要8月1號上路嗎因為本席這邊要特別提到先在下一頁我要講一下世界各國的案例其實在亞洲國家現在只有日本在東京有稍微示範一下而且他是要求大型建築業者來去做實行那如果這些大型建築業者他們沒有做其實是沒有相關的罰則所以我們標的你8月1號上路的時候如果有些這個"},{"start":462.21,"end":489.332,"text":"有些案子他沒有辦法裝你們未來是不會發建造還是怎麼樣所以是不是可以請你現在說明一下跟委員報告齁其實每一個建築物大概會有一些不一樣的太陽那我們現在在這個北部的地區有召開過一次說明會那中南部也會繼續召開那這裡面還是會有一些比較權宜性的譬如說光照程度或者是結構有問題的那這些再報給建築主管機關以及能源主管機關這邊來核定"},{"start":490.663,"end":518.017,"text":"有特殊狀況還有他的權益處理方式那原則上還是8月1號要實施那我想要請問一下因為你看了說明會以後可不可以把說明會的資料提給我一下那就是說到底產業界跟我們民眾有沒有什麼樣相關的反饋或回應那你們是不是本席在這邊當然要建議啊就像在日本整個亞洲國家因為現在這個制度我們是學習歐洲的可是在亞洲國家其實現在沒有任何國家是整個國家全體一致適用的"},{"start":518.317,"end":538.106,"text":"那台灣這樣子來做,適不適合亞洲的環境跟亞洲這麼密集的建築的一個問題,以及未來的民怨等等,因為本席在這邊已經跟內政部拜託,跟國土部拜託很多次了,所以拜託還是要這個來瞭解一下,不要政策實行下去,未來很大的影響。那最後一個問題我想請教部長。"},{"start":539.332,"end":557.089,"text":"部長最近我相信很多這個民眾都在關心台灣少子化的國安危機因為這個在去年生育率大概是10萬左右今年大概預計才9萬那今年2月其實新聞已經有出來的我們的生育的人口數好像才這個"},{"start":559.11,"end":576.126,"text":"六千多人一個月才六千多人所以這個生意率非常的少那請問在內政部而言你們有沒有什麼來解決這個少子化的一些方案跟對策報告委員少子化是跨部會包括從國發會衛福部或是教育部都要一起來處理"},{"start":577.287,"end":593.99,"text":"那跟那個我們的這個內政部相關的部分都是大概在社會住宅的提供那社會住宅提供的部分在上個會期的時候我們的這個住宅法修正包括我們把婚育宅的比例提高或者他撫養未成年的子女的從12歲提高到18歲"},{"start":595.191,"end":623.666,"text":"那這個部分我們都要按照委員所通過的這個法律上面來做施行未來我們會提供將近有1000戶以上的這個婚育宅那如果需要配合就是現在興建的社會住宅不夠的話那包租代管業者我們也會從這個方向來加強也就是說我們希望能夠提供給有婚育需求的這些年輕人更多社會住宅上面的一個制度性上的協助好 謝謝 希望內政部繼續加油 謝謝好 謝謝張志文委員"}]}},{"id":"167474","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167474","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f671e7b8fff80d6c2ef4d454d79684183a52953553f5c94752dd317367dc2c47e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"09:14:35 - 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謝謝主持 我們請劉部長來 請劉部長委員長 部長好部長 新會期開始想首先針對幾個最近其實在地方反映社會反映都很正面的一些訊息跟你做一些就教因為我們需要有更深刻更細緻的資訊在裡面第一個的話就是講這個警消的加急"},{"start":38.618,"end":52.347,"text":"我想行政院在核定自這個3月1日起調高了全國的刑事加成那這個消防的部分也有這個增加我們的待遇這是中央和地方大家都樂見全國都樂見的部分可不可以請部長再幫我們解釋一下說明一下我們這次的調高大概是到什麼樣的程度"},{"start":59.551,"end":73.356,"text":"謝謝委員的指教其實委員非常清楚我們在上個會期內政委員會的時候包括委員在內都大力推動那所以有關加成的部分在警察方面就是我們擴大到非六都的部分"},{"start":74.116,"end":88.633,"text":"那原來在六都的部分的話它的加成就是我剛剛所報告的會提高到兩成左右那再來就是有關刑事加擠的部分這次也是列計進去那現在我們警政署正要求各地的縣市政府警察局長趕快來報告他們的縣市長希望可以碩至今年3月1號就開始"},{"start":94.039,"end":119.791,"text":"回溯至今年3月1號就開始了嗎是我現在就是想請問的這個部分其實我們非常非常的知道警察同仁的辛苦所以中央地方全國我們當然各委員在立法院這邊可以要求的時候不管公開或私下其實都是希望能夠調高這樣的待遇所以以我們新北市我用我們新北市來舉例的話一般員警在修正前和修正後其實每個月的10領加給"},{"start":121.212,"end":143.248,"text":"幾乎是可以到跨3000元那形式呢其實每個月的使領加給最高有將近將近5000元其實是差別蠻大的那這就是對勤務繁重尤其是我們六都其實是一個最實際的鼓勵可是你剛剛也說到了其實部長這就是我想詢問的中央已經調高了等於是打開了這個天花板那"},{"start":144.008,"end":161.621,"text":"地方的預算編列您說您現在是要求地方縣市的警察局跟首長報告然後預算編列那請問這個時程是什麼時候報告委員我想應該是這樣子第一個呢今年正在執行的預算大部分的縣市政府都已經在議會裡面通過"},{"start":163.442,"end":186.958,"text":"但是我們在今年執行預算的時候發現到說我們警察在各縣市地方政府他們的人事經費其實是有餘裕的因為到處的員額都不是那麼滿的狀況之下所以在沒有增加特別需要在議會通過這個預算之前如果縣市首長他同意的話再送議會知道說有這個辦法公布之後"},{"start":189.119,"end":204.655,"text":"那其實我們有核算過應該從今年3月1號來追溯是沒有太大問題的那目前為止包括新北市在內他們在3月13的時候已經有核定包括繁重家籍以及勤務的家籍"},{"start":205.436,"end":232.445,"text":"非常好那部長謝謝你這邊的說明那我想透過您的說明其實全國各縣市也都可以看得到我們是不但調高了規定調高了值值那同時也認為這個預算是有空間可以編列下去所以實際在現在就可以馬上執行而且是可以回溯到今年的3月就可以開始執行的那我希望各縣市政府那當然我們很高興樂見新北市也已經在3月13號已經通過了"},{"start":234.085,"end":249.635,"text":"好 那這樣的話另外一個下一個進度的話就是我們其實也在尤其是我啦我記得去年的10月16號也和民進黨的委員們都共同的提案其實我們還有另外在爭取一個部分也就是請內政部研議擴大"},{"start":251.056,"end":268.149,"text":"深夜為勞津貼的合法範圍因為我們認為說要輪班維修的人員他即使是駐地內勤的這個部分其實也應該要可以納入那我不曉得從去年的10月我們要求了之後到現在現在研議的進度如何"},{"start":269.029,"end":285.602,"text":"報告委員我們在三大這個津貼或者是三大這個加擠的部分就是剛所說的警察跟消防那現在有關於深夜圍牢津貼本來他如果是在勤的話本來就沒有太大問題我們要爭取的是深夜圍牢津貼是屬於被勤的"},{"start":286.302,"end":304.077,"text":"背勤的部分那因為屬於背勤的部分的話人數就擴大非常的多除了我們的警消以外還有包括海巡或者是還有包括其他的這個有證紙的人所以呢在行政院人事行政總處或者主計處在核算的時候呢就會碰到這個困難那既然有這個困難的話我們還是來持續爭取希望能夠朝著這方向來努力"},{"start":311.002,"end":328.413,"text":"他現在為止還沒有定案我們還是再一次的表達啦其實不管是只要是他有在這段時間內在深夜有工作的當然我們知道到外勤是當然更辛苦他所以可以有在危險勤務的加急但是他如果是在備勤的狀態說實在備就是備嘛"},{"start":331.075,"end":344.687,"text":"背就是如果有的時候我就要出去了所以我們還是認為這個背景應該要納入深夜圍牢津貼的部分了所以我們還是再一次的表達希望內政部可以再跟行政院爭取這個部分的預算對我們的員警能夠有最實質的鼓勵對我們的消防員能夠有實質的鼓勵這是我們再一次的表達意見部長"},{"start":352.874,"end":365.944,"text":"請繼續堅持我們會繼續爭取因為它裡面的人數真的非常的多但是我還是一直在強調說現在是屬於本來就有外勤的本來就有現在是被勤的部分所以被勤的部分我們會繼續爭取"},{"start":369.707,"end":398.05,"text":"好 所以這個部分的話到這裡謝謝您的說明那另外也有一個一樣是非常受歡迎的政策但是也是希望有更細部的說明就是老宅延壽所以署長可以請回那這個老宅延壽我想這個內政部也在各次長的帶領之下其實到地方開了非常多次的說明會可以看得到其實鄉親出席的都非常非常的踴躍可見得對這個老宅延壽政策是表示非常支持的那"},{"start":398.51,"end":413.802,"text":"我們現在的狀況反而是說哇 當時提出了50億的預算要來這個支持要來執行這個老宅延送可是你眼看著來參與說明會來報名的人可能不只這樣吧那所以內政部有什麼樣的因應狀況呢那同時我們在問題"},{"start":417.145,"end":435.46,"text":"提出的同時也已經看到了坊間媒體就之前內政部2月5號的新聞稿說明以後變成有一種消息在坊間流傳說變成因為內政部因為知道自己這個政策很受歡迎所以它有四個來源加總它從有一種寫法是它是創造100億元的產值這是一種說法"},{"start":437.682,"end":453.688,"text":"但是以後另外一種說法會變成是你已經再加碼了50億等於是重做到另外50億的這個的費用預算也就是變成是100億的預算那這個部分部長請問到底哪一種何者為真哪一種是您現在的方向"},{"start":454.088,"end":468.901,"text":"是謝謝委員的關心那委員也在地方上辦說明會的時候多次出席也幫鄉親來爭取權益我跟委員報告一下50億是真真確確是在上一次我們特別預算的時候給內政確定的然後三年內要執行結束但是我們發現到我們在推老宅延售的時候衛福部他也要加進來"},{"start":478.109,"end":487.376,"text":"所以衛福部的經費是額外的對22億那經濟部呢他們也想加進來經濟部有關於太陽光電也好或是其他ESCO的部分呢他們也要額外的部分那再來一個就是說我們在推動的過程當中啊地方也要按照地方他們的這個財政收支劃分法裡面的層級他們也必須要有一部分的補貼的經費放到裡面來那還有一個申請老宅延壽的人呢他自己也要有一部分的自備款"},{"start":507.472,"end":532.867,"text":"所以呢我們用非常粗略的這個估計下來的話呢50億可能會增加變成到100億左右的這樣的產值會出現那哪一些會受惠呢第一個當然是申請老宅延壽的這些人第二個有關於像這個土木包工業或是修繕業者等等這些也會受惠那目前呢院長有再三要求我們把它備變清楚之後我們預計在今年5月就開始申請上路"},{"start":534.088,"end":546.291,"text":"部長我還是建議我們的預算來源的數字和產值這兩個名詞可能不要混用可能比較好一點因為您剛剛也是又提到了說我們又加進了衛福部經濟部到這裡為止我們都非常樂見樂見有更多的資源投入這一個專案當中這個是我們樂見的但如果後面跳到我們初估會有一百億的產值這兩個字出來我們就又會混淆掉了"},{"start":559.975,"end":586.43,"text":"我剛剛有聽懂你的狀況應該就是我們會增加更多的預算那未來呢到底什麼樣的標準各縣市有沒有一定的比例比如說我新北市其實老宅最多啊那我是不是可以爭取最多王美惠已經在那邊搖頭了不行我新北市還是最多我們新北市要最多對對對所以在這樣的狀況下我希望這個規範也可以更清楚所以部長這個部分的話也請你提供資料讓我們可以進一步跟鄉親說明好 是的好 謝謝文的指教好 謝謝"},{"start":589.942,"end":590.105,"text":"謝謝喬惠委員"}]}},{"id":"167509","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167509","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6492c04e4453458f6f4d454d79684183abfd7ce027fbc82e09b283f5c5a56e13d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"10:59:15 - 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在一開始審查所謂的政黨不分區委員資格的時候確實有向委員所提示這個申請書就我們側面的了解他這個申請書可能沒有簽名沒有蓋章"},{"start":345.765,"end":366.977,"text":"可能沒有簽名沒有蓋章但是我不敢確認因為我沒有拿到正式的公文書那如果沒有簽名沒有蓋章的狀況之下他不只是讓這個公務人員變成是一個登載不實同時對於提名他的民眾黨說不定他也是登載不實不是黨本身而是這個人對於黨"},{"start":368.719,"end":386.314,"text":"對於民眾黨所以這個部分當然就是在立法院的韓院長在當時就是說上個禮拜跟各個黨團有提到沒有達成共識有一個部分叫做又有事實及法律有待釐清之處的一點"},{"start":386.934,"end":407.332,"text":"第一個 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任何公民都應該要配合情報工作喔他們都可以跨海通緝我們的立法委員沈伯陽請問"},{"start":128.547,"end":142.661,"text":"如果剛才有立委,他在下了質詢台之後,他表面上他是在問這個社宅政策但是他一直叫你去辦公室問這個關鍵75設施的相關的這些內容,來署長你來回應好了"},{"start":147.928,"end":158.568,"text":"來一張你能給嗎那這個關鍵聲音都是機密的這個相關的這個資料那如果有牽涉到會赦免當然是不能給好謝謝署長來部長"},{"start":162.318,"end":177.109,"text":"謝謝委員的指教我還是要重申李曾秀女士她有國籍法的疑義其實在立法院的院長在協商的時候也提到在相關事實查明之前以及司法最終判決之前"},{"start":178.47,"end":196.036,"text":"其實對於他的職權行使是予以尊重那我要跟各位報告我們的中華民國的政府官員是依法行政依這個法第一個國籍法的主管機關就是在內政部當我們對於有一個立法委員"},{"start":197.256,"end":225.65,"text":"他有國籍法疑義的時候當然要回到國籍法來處理而且我們已經多次重申到目前為止從李貞秀女士到職前的前一天都沒有收到任何官方的放棄中華人民共和國的資料就表示李貞秀女士要對外回答她是不是否認她是中國人而且剛剛李博義交委提個非常清楚"},{"start":226.83,"end":243.131,"text":"雙重國籍的人擔任公職基於公務人員跟國家是一個特別緊密的忠誠跟信任關係在內政部所屬的不是只有警政署包括我們的甚至國土署或者是包括我們的消防署"},{"start":243.712,"end":264.083,"text":"都有機密的文件跟機密的預算我想李委員非常清楚我們在去年在內政委員會也曾經審查機密預算那在審查機密預算裡面所提供的任何資訊資料設備等等這些公文書都是需要立法委員來保密的"},{"start":264.363,"end":283.352,"text":"而不是立法委員的助理所以我們基於對國家的忠誠度而且基於我們公務人員要依法行政的立場所以對於李貞秀女士的所知或者是質詢或是相關類似向立法委員的資料提供愛難照辦"},{"start":285.453,"end":313.26,"text":"我再說明一下加強一下,除了內政部,大家看到內政委員會表面上都是講社宅啦那其實內政部包含全民防衛民防體系警政署的關鍵基礎設施的防衛還有警政署的警政跟反恐的情資還有移民署的國境管理還有生物識別還有國土署的地級以及敏感圖資我請問有哪一項是中共不想要的"},{"start":314.124,"end":342.471,"text":"每一項他都想要啊那你在他的框架裡面拿到這一些這還只是內政委員會喔各位可以接受如果在國防委員會外交委員會更多的這些機密請問國人可以接受嗎我是完全不能接受再者幫我秀一下他在就職相關規定裡面我形容一下那個民政司長在嗎"},{"start":344.964,"end":370.782,"text":"市長,我請問一下我們現在的婚姻是登記制還是公開宴客制?護證師護證師,對不起請問一下我們現在的婚姻制度是公開宴客、公開儀式還是要登記?報告委員是登記制韓院長的才智就是公開儀式制啦他說李女士已經就職了,宣誓就職了"},{"start":371.806,"end":391.292,"text":"但是所以我們尊重韓院長尊重他的這個行使的權益他在立法院我們這個國籍法的相關規定的回覆書裡面他勾的是他沒有取得外國籍這偽造文書第二個我形容的是怎樣"},{"start":393.752,"end":419.789,"text":"假設一對情侶他已經公開宴客辦了三桌,親友都有來,他們聲稱他們已經是夫妻了好,去到戶政事務所發現沒有,你現在還沒有離婚,這樣怎麼辦?所以我們對於公職人員還有民意代表我們的就職,真的是比婚姻制度還要寬鬆"},{"start":422.046,"end":436.831,"text":"憑良心的啦用灰就可以啦所以我是反對這種做法就是韓院長認為公開宣示過他就是立法委員我反對因為他沒有辦法合法登記為台灣的立法委員部長你可以回應一下"},{"start":442.311,"end":460.351,"text":"非常謝謝委員所提供的資料確實也是這樣的資料現在內政部也發函請立法院的秘書長可以把李貞秀女士是否有勾本人於就任第十一屆立法委員時未娶的外國國籍這人事處長有證實"},{"start":462.974,"end":474.747,"text":"對 但是我們需要有書面的部分那如果是書面的部分的話那就表示說他可能是偽造文書那如果是公務員偽造文書的話在台灣是刑法要入罪的好 謝謝部長 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167499","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167499","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f614ed23dab951d1049a7ba446ded26d6bbfd7ce027fbc82e0dbb5ddc917bcde375ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"10:52:43 - 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而且副部長 謝謝"},{"start":10.712,"end":30.298,"text":"沈委員好副部長好那這個因為我們今天這個最主要還是針對我們這一個不管是防空系統等等之類的來做這個研討那當然因為我們現在在這一個預算上面還有在卡關那我相信在下個禮拜我們在審這個相關條例的時候呢應該會"},{"start":31.418,"end":50.098,"text":"針對防空系統會有更多的說明因為我覺得有時候在防空系統在回答的時候其實也蠻容易回答到機密事項的所以我現在是想討論就是說因為畢竟從這個去年預算提到現在已經有蠻大的一個空窗期所以我現在想知道的就是說在這個空窗期我們能夠做什麼趕快去彌補這個戰力的空缺"},{"start":52.86,"end":71.889,"text":"這個是我在閱讀的今年一月的時候的一份美軍的報告這份報告叫做關鍵基礎設施的實施的保護指引說它講的是關鍵基礎設施但是其實說真的都是針對這種小型無人機的威脅基本上我想說應該是適用在國防部的身上"},{"start":72.529,"end":88.91,"text":"那裡面呢 強調這個所謂的強化隱蔽跟外圍這三個的概念那我就想說 因為強化這個我想大概不是什麼太難的事情大概是我原本就有在做就是比如說既有的一些防禦的物理上的措施就是你在物理上就可以直接去防禦"},{"start":89.751,"end":108.512,"text":"那這個隱蔽目前來講我們因為隱蔽畢竟在這個報告裡面他說這個隱蔽的成效是最好的然後它的成本也不高那當然它會有很先進很先進的技術比如說像這個微波啊雷射啊等等的但它也有講的是非常一般的技術比如說像我們本來的干擾"},{"start":109.393,"end":130.701,"text":"所以就是說我們現在國軍如果說我們從強化隱蔽外圍這個概念來出發的話在我們的防空系統還沒有完全建制完整之前我們會面對到比如說這種無人機的這個飽和攻擊啊什麼等等之類的我們針對這幾項有沒有什麼就是現行我們正在補救的方式至少能夠讓我們撐過這段時期"},{"start":133.655,"end":161.434,"text":"第一個部分是委員所提出來這一個美國戰爭部聯合跨機構特遣部隊4014陸軍他成立的一個部隊他在今年的1月30號他頒訂了這樣的一個指引那國防部也看到這個相關的指引其實現在這幾個核心概念是我們現在國防部也在也在積極在做的事情第一個部分是有關這個加固的部分就是說如何強化建築物的設施結構"},{"start":162.495,"end":190.378,"text":"所以我們對目前國軍的剛剛我在前面的報告裡面有提到說對於國軍現在的固定的指揮所跟固定的重要設施我們從去年前年已經開始做了一些檢討以及檢測那會從今年開始我們做一些加固的一些設施這是對於固定的部分當然也撫以有關相關機動的部分那第二個部分是有關這個隱蔽的部分它這個隱蔽它最主要的概念說就是希望能夠透過隱蔽偽裝"},{"start":192.119,"end":200.824,"text":"降低你的視覺的欺騙 可視度的部分讓無人機的操作所跟無人機能夠難以辨識目標那這個部分我們強化的部分包含到隱蔽偽裝我們也加構了相關的一個偽裝網"},{"start":207.708,"end":225.857,"text":"希望能夠改變所有的固定建築物外面的一些設施或者加強這個隱蔽的作為讓它的外圍跟衛星上面以及無人機的操作所在實際操作上面很困難去發現到我們固定設施實際的一個位置"},{"start":226.377,"end":252.858,"text":"那有關外圍周邊防護的部分它最大的這個核心是它能夠擴大安全的距離並且建立周邊的防護降低無人機接近目標的一個機會那這當然跟我們營區外圍的一個空域的管制有很大的關係但我們在營安條例裡面也已經律定相關的營區都不能有無人機能夠進入跟飛行我們也會做相關的通報以及運用營區智慧戰鬥的方式來簡單跟委員做個說明"},{"start":255.02,"end":280.85,"text":"因為外圍就是說最後一個外圍這邊當然指的就是說偵測的範圍要變得更廣我覺得說不能只是傳統的偵測範圍但是這個又牽扯到我們整個的防空系統的建制也是的確我們現在在卡關的部分那裡面有提到一點我覺得特別的重要就是說他有特別提到說現在美軍在訓練的時候他會特別去強調我們的訓練人員就是最後一行他說去觀察那個操作者的行為而不是飛行器的行為"},{"start":281.55,"end":305.505,"text":"比如說他們過往花了很大的心力就是整個防空系統建設也絕對是針對飛行器但他們發現在觀察人的行為的時候對他們有很強的一個注意那當然我們現在在這一個購買的過程當中我們跟著都是最先進的技術但既然台灣現在作為美國重要的一個盟友然後在對付中國的這樣的一個侵略的可能的時候其實說真的如果他們有"},{"start":306.305,"end":330.02,"text":"這樣的一個指引跟建議其實說真的我們自己就可能可以先來試試看就是說因為有時候我們對於對方可能比他們更了解那我們去觀察他們所操作的行為然後去針對這件事情或許更能夠有效這個所謂的飽和攻擊那剛剛前面這幾個就是分層整合跟這一個向外延伸剛剛副部長已經講過可能我就不再多說但總之因為現在"},{"start":331.441,"end":354.213,"text":"剛剛講的這些事情它的成本不一定要那麼高那它在我們原有的預算上面應該是都還有支應的空間那我們就是希望能夠在極大化這個效益之下先把我們這個空窗席先撐過去那接下來因為從審查一直到增值一直到這個會期的結束我們都不知道到底國防預算還有我們新的這個特別條例到底能不能夠通過"},{"start":355.233,"end":377.745,"text":"畢竟特別條例通過完以後還有預算案的審查有的這還有好幾步希望在這一個當中我們先把這一個剛剛講的SOP先把它建立起來這個就是希望國防部能夠幫忙的地方接下來就是說這個是我在之前質詢其實已經問過因為時間的關係我可能今天也再不多說就是關於情報合作交流的部分"},{"start":378.725,"end":403.853,"text":"因為今天的題目是在講伊朗發生的事情我們可以看到情報看起來還是非常的有用有效的去減少將近九成對方的飛彈所以如果我們今天要情報做交流我們之前有特別去強調我們國防部一直都有人員在海外做這些相關的交流這個人員能不能夠增加這是我們過往諮詢一直在提醒的"},{"start":404.233,"end":424.16,"text":"因為這一次伊朗的事情我覺得這個情報的交換又變成是一個重點但目前進行到什麼樣的地步到底有多少人我覺得不適合在這邊做回答所以這個我先過去那接下來呢這一個事情稍微比較稍微我覺得比較重要一點就是這個是最近"},{"start":425.8,"end":448.732,"text":"國防部有公告這個體位區分標準但它其實大部分因為我們有免疫我們有替代疫我們有這個常備疫那我們現在是很多是跟免疫跟替代疫這一邊中間這個標準是得到有不少民眾的反彈那當然本來應該是內政部的事項不過因為這個標準跟軍運局又有關係所以我想說還是要來問一下國防部"},{"start":449.352,"end":468.74,"text":"我覺得比較重要的一點就是說就是為什麼當時要做這一個體位區分標準它的原由到底是什麼是否可以說明第二個就是假設今天有這個必要我們也沒有辦法但是畢竟比如說他今天有可能是本來是免疫的那他要進入到T1那T1一樣他現在還是有心訊而且心訊可能拉長嘛"},{"start":469.58,"end":496.612,"text":"那如果他真的會進去到這一邊不管他是性別不安啊等等之類的在這一個體系有沒有配套措施如果說你今天一定要把這一個標準做改變那改變了之後他必須要到做這個心訊或者他要甚至進入到這個常備役的時候他的配套措施是什麼我覺得這個蠻重要的是否可以先做這兩點來回答我簡單先跟委員做回答細部的部分我請經濟局局長做說明"},{"start":497.182,"end":519.983,"text":"那第一個部分是要修正這個兵役的體會標準的部分因為我們比較在亞洲所有的國家包含到新加坡跟南韓他們所有輕狀人員的免疫力大概在5%左右也就是說100個人有5個人是因為符合兵役的標準不用當兵那台灣我們檢討過去的免疫力大概高達到16.8%"},{"start":522.225,"end":540.291,"text":"所以內政部考量整個醫療科技進步跟其他亞洲徵兵制度國家的政策也檢討到橫平性所以我們他們在這個去年5月9號還請國安部來建議通盤修正整個體會的區分標準那第二個部分就是軍事局在接受到這一個"},{"start":541.952,"end":567.651,"text":"有關這一個醫政司內政部醫政司來函之後非常的謹慎所以他也已經從去年的5月開始啟動他召集了77個單位這中間包含到衛福部相關的醫院以及專家完成了8次的一個研修的會議也多次的拜會醫政司確立雙班合共事所以這個條例在1月份開始公佈後面6月份再施行"},{"start":568.231,"end":585.864,"text":"那這中間的體位區分標準會在中間做一個滾動式的修正假設民眾或者是相關的單位覺得這個條例在執行上面有相關的問題我們會做一個滾動式的調整那有關這一個議政的有關這個替代的部分我請議局局長來"},{"start":591.229,"end":610.198,"text":"我們這次體位區分最重要的精神在於說我們依據我們現代的這些醫療的進步來講很多的疾病在治療完之後功能上有逐漸恢復的部分第二個我們在這次的修正裡面最大的改變就是把原來從我們常備醫療"},{"start":610.738,"end":637.558,"text":"替代疫到免疫這三分法把它變成說長輩疫替代疫AB跟我們的這個免疫的部分那主要的目的也是希望利用細緻的這樣的分別不是用按照疾病判斷就一刀切而他本身有他的這個他的功能性來講是他配合我們這個疫別上面來講他勤務上面的這個特性我們讓他能夠進來主要目的也是維持我們的這個兵疫的公平性也能夠符合他自己本身的身體部分"},{"start":638.699,"end":664.859,"text":"我稍微 再用一點時間 我稍微追問一下當然第一個剛剛講說就是剛剛說在世界各國百分之五那台灣這邊是稍微比較高但因為台灣之前也報過很多這種各式各樣不管是造假啦 等等的事情所以這個可能要考慮進去 這是第一個第二個就是說確實啦 醫學有進步但醫學進步不代表它在醫學的治療之下它就有恢復到可以來做這些事情這一定要實質判定嘛"},{"start":665.339,"end":683.962,"text":"所以這一個的實質判定還有就是我剛剛講的你今天就算在醫學判定連接到今天兵役說他可以服的時候他進入到那一個環境之下跟他在一般的環境一定又不一樣那這個配套措施就是在兵役環境下針對這些新納進來的人他的配套措施是什麼這個一定要出來因為"},{"start":685.003,"end":707.317,"text":"他才會感受到安心啊他才會知道講說OK那我現在知道你的標準是什麼你為何要做這一個那我進去之後呢又有什麼樣的資源可以做輔助然後呢中間可能又會有定期的比如說會不管是要診斷啊或者說要看要適應啊這些項目如果都有完整的話這個時候人民才會知道說我們到底想要做什麼事情嘛"},{"start":707.657,"end":725.845,"text":"所以我覺得這一方面因為我覺得要趕著上路之前一定要先了解就是現在的人民在想什麼那我記得在應該是在在應該是上個禮拜吧我們也有把相關的一些澄清書嘛應該也都有交給國防部嘛對不對所以呢這個呢如果後續還有什麼討論的話我們再繼續再到委員會再繼續來追這一題"},{"start":728.726,"end":744.782,"text":"那這個最後有一個就是空軍的問題我這個很快速帶過去大概30秒就好了就是說因為我們現在這個一年內要做完這個體能的這個晚測那通常我們是要求要一年之內那結果我們就接到"},{"start":745.262,"end":762.53,"text":"有一些陳情就是說因為有一些長官要求就是說第一季就要八成的人那他本來期待是說我希望一年之內我慢慢訓練我慢慢達到結果有一些長官希望他們在前三個月就要先做到百分之八十就要做到那後來詢問的理由當然是因為有一些長官他可能也要一些"},{"start":764.091,"end":782.663,"text":"為了一些獎勵制度等等之類的但我覺得有時候雖然KPI是好事但如果因為長官這樣子想對下面這樣要求對他來講本來是一年的事情你就硬要擠壓到第一季做完這個對基層也是一個負擔這個當然也不是只有在這件事情上面任何KPI制度的設計都會有這樣的問題"},{"start":783.684,"end":800.075,"text":"所以是否可以回去稍微跟基層的一些長官溝通一下這件事就是說不要說為了本來它是好事結果你把好事變成對於基層的壓力我覺得這可能是不妥當的事情這個有社會部長做一個最後的說明就好 謝謝"},{"start":800.435,"end":817.357,"text":"第一個部分是我們現在年度的基本體能建設我們最主要是希望官民能夠自主訓練在一年裡面他可以擇任何時間讓我們北中南東的所有建設場地去實施建設所以並沒有強制他要在哪一個時間之內去完成建設"},{"start":818.098,"end":837.068,"text":"那第二個部分就是當然有一些基層的單位的主觀簡單說他們的做法是希望在上半年或在一定的時間之內完成監測假設不合格人員他們可以集中以及針對他不合格的項目來實施訓練讓他們在年度裡面"},{"start":837.728,"end":849.796,"text":"可以達到訓練合格的標準所以剛剛委員所指導我們回去之後我們會加強宣導就是在配套的措施上面如果去強化不要造成基層部隊的一些困擾那他們還是有選擇對 就是讓他們有選擇而且針對他不合格的項目"},{"start":853.759,"end":877.129,"text":"後半段可能有一些時間可能大概上半年完成建設如果不合格的項目可能我們可以集中對他的缺失跟不合格的項目集中如何來針對他的缺失來加強訓練那在下半年所以當然這是很多基層部隊在執行上面的一些個別的做法那我們下去之後會加強做一些宣導跟配套的措施好那就再拜託了謝謝副部長謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"167501","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167501","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6fb283496bb54da069845512775efda37bfd7ce027fbc82e017444451dbb786d95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅明才","委員發言時間":"11:01:12 - 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已經開始在那邊航價要漲兩到三成你有沒有注意這樣的情況"},{"start":195.609,"end":214.501,"text":"所以這個部分我們在物價穩定小組針對每一項都會做深入的一個討論然後有些哪些樣一個一個整個讓它意志長的一個措施要怎麼樣來採行這個本身在行政院都有一個深入的一個討論"},{"start":216.052,"end":241.006,"text":"我們過去都講當經濟成長的時候希望全民共享去年的經濟成長率本來預測是3.45%左右後來去年的經濟成長率是多少去年是8.68%8.68%很棒可是我們深入的了解發現"},{"start":242.529,"end":268.865,"text":"其實所有的傳產大概接近以上市上櫃公司來說60%是低於20年平均線換言之百工百業沒有獲得經濟成長的果實真正賺的真正得到企業高成長的是什麼"},{"start":270.389,"end":293.255,"text":"當然是資通產業啦 但是它相關 它也連帶帶動相關的一個產業的一個上有原料的一個生產喔譬如說它擴充廠房啊 也增添設備 也帶動建材啊 金屬這些的一個成長包括整個製造業的成長都也還不錯對 那個都恭喜啦 稍微一點點而已啦 不多啦"},{"start":294.301,"end":320.476,"text":"真正顯著讓我們看得到的就是半導體以及AI周邊大概就是台灣45家比較大間的公司周邊的電源效果就比較差一點所以在這個艱困的時刻本席要主張為所有的小老百姓為所有的百工百業來著想"},{"start":322.679,"end":343.712,"text":"去年經濟成長那麼多 今年經濟的成長率多少我們是預估7.71 但是當初在預估的時候是還沒有中東戰事的一個發生所以這個部分中東戰事的發生我們在五月的時候我們再做一個修正就整個一個變化做一個修正"},{"start":344.272,"end":349.259,"text":"是 主席長我們大致可以看出來如果船長只有3.1%來說大概有4.5 5%以上都還是回歸到半導體跟周邊這是一個全世界的趨勢"},{"start":360.313,"end":387.86,"text":"那你可不可以有什麼辦法在緊急的這個時刻拿出來震災拿出來幫助這些比較弱勢的團體包括高齡者身心障礙者還有有一些疾病的或者一些單親家庭有失業的或是職業傷害等等的這些需要社會福利救助的這一群"},{"start":388.74,"end":398.902,"text":"他們口袋的薪水通通沒有增加但是生活的壓力一天比一天越來越強政府這時候應該要出手了我跟委員報告事實上六大福利津貼有在運作說要調整大概23%但是這個部分必須要透過追加減預算來運作"},{"start":416.165,"end":421.369,"text":"那但是因為我們一直總預算一直還沒有審查所以我們希望貴院能夠趕快來審查我們115年度的總預算審查通過之後呢包括災害準備金第二預備金還有第一預備金這些都能夠動之針對災害我們能夠有所運用第二個我們也可以在總預算之後我們辦追加減預算就是有關六大生活津貼的一個調整"},{"start":444.324,"end":459.175,"text":"那包括國民年金的一個調整包括老農津貼的一個調整對於剛剛所講的這些弱勢族群這些社福機構等等本席舉雙手贊成你馬上送過來我就准啊"},{"start":460.236,"end":481.094,"text":"你就現在送給我 下一分鐘我就馬上支持你也不必說等全部每次等來等去 等到天荒地老你113個立委你先拿過來 我馬上就准 我該簽了簽了所以這一點你無需擔心那你還有其他的委員 你可以一一去說服"},{"start":482.011,"end":495.106,"text":"我就是大力要支持這些弱勢族群我是要支持青年族群這本來就是我應該要去爭取的那另外再來講一下今年的話大概稅率會有多少兩兆八千多"},{"start":504.198,"end":513.029,"text":"那這兩兆八千多有沒有辦法照顧我剛剛所講的以及因應這些可能物價即將要調漲 石油要調漲 油電水氣要調漲"},{"start":515.967,"end":522.592,"text":"你們還有沒有其他的錢 夠不夠來贈災 夠不夠來平抑這些物價因為115年就舉債2992億啦所以這是2兆8的一個稅入 和3兆350億的一個稅住這所舉債的一個那個"},{"start":536.303,"end":558.79,"text":"那現在如果說還要再追加的部分那還要再就是說那個所謂的那個韌性戰力韌性戰力的一個特別預算的部分所以這些都必須要增加部長 這樣啦齁你現在想來想去都是還是覺得很那個欠缺啦那邊都是不夠啦齁本時齁報一條比較長的給你比方的啦齁台積電"},{"start":567.762,"end":595.662,"text":"中華民國持有幾%的股份大概有幾張?成本是多少?台積電它是在國發會啦國發會,它是有持有16億股的一個16億股,幾張?16億股一百六十萬張啊不然你因應這些你算算啊如果需要三千億、五千億你算一下嘛台積電"},{"start":598.465,"end":617.013,"text":"賣個兩萬張有多少他每一年繳付一百億對啦 我說賣個兩萬張會有多少因為當初的成本現在拉下來都很低有沒有可能考慮現在台積電股價也蠻高的考不考慮賣出台積電來充實這次的賑災將來基金運作就沒有錢了"},{"start":621.638,"end":644.968,"text":"基金運作就沒有錢了20年前的話他才不到一兆現在已經有快三兆多了怎麼會很沒錢呢這油鹼殺雞取卵啦不會啊當初你們500塊的時候要賣出台積電是本席在立法院說要求不要賣你調資料出來看啊"},{"start":649.096,"end":660.14,"text":"我要求他們要不要賣他們說那個委員我們就不賣所以當初到現在現在台積電到底算不算是高點聽說還會再更高那萬一沒有更高呢"},{"start":667.665,"end":692.48,"text":"其實就算再更高我們有160幾萬張我們賣出是要來幫助所有全國需要幫助的國民另外還有一個我們不能只有一個護國神山我們要在這個階段來找第二個護國神山第三個護國神山我們才能長長久久就跟本席當初在這裡建議央行沈記長也在"},{"start":695.256,"end":705.443,"text":"建議央行總裁在每盎司黃金1250塊的時候要大膽買進1000億陳局長有沒有買黃金是央行最重要的準備啦所以大概這個問題應該央行都有在控制中有沒有買大概他會少量除息買進沒有 他沒有買"},{"start":724.211,"end":739.873,"text":"我的意思是說當初如果有買1000億現在的市值就是多1000億就多1000億所以我希望說我們政府機關各單位可以靈活的來"},{"start":741.223,"end":756.046,"text":"考量大家一起努力啊度過艱困的環境 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝民財委員我想那個 沈機長這個民財委員的這個建議非常的珍貴參考一下 多少參考一下"}]}},{"id":"167500","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167500","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6c2c13fc7a106f1980bc6757ec415edbebfd7ce027fbc82e069b51f63c6f260655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝衣鳯","委員發言時間":"11:04:13 - 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我請國發會葉主委 請國發會葉主委委員長 葉主委早我想請問在這一次的關稅美國對等關稅不確定的影響之下你認為為什麼今年你們的評估又是逆勢上漲是因為又有搶單的效應嗎"},{"start":33.752,"end":49.727,"text":"第一個最主要的就就有我剛剛在業務報告上面說的就是說全球的那幾大的CSP廠其實對於資本支出來講的話又再增加原本預估只有60%那是不是因為在10%跟15%不確定的因素之下這搶單效應嗎"},{"start":51.508,"end":57.837,"text":"沒有 因為很大一部分是因為CSP廠商的資本支出是因為雲端供應商的資本支出增加但是我想要請問的過去"},{"start":68.132,"end":87.07,"text":"就是說國發會希望說國內的供應商都可以轉移就是說出口的基地喔那希望到歐洲到日本等等可是今年歐洲日本都因為這個對等關稅而造成它的經濟的上漲上行沒有利喔那這樣子會不會影響你們的佈局"},{"start":88.929,"end":116.005,"text":"這個部分來講的話目前整個廠商的佈局比較像是往美國那邊佈局現在還是都是往美國嘛對 整個AI的那一個供應鏈的一些關係所以也沒有往其他地方也有啦只是說那一個部分跟美國來比的話相對的比較沒有那麼多這樣子所以就是在變動的調整之下我們還是往美國佈局而沒有就是往全球其他地方佈局也是有啦只是說那個美國的比重比較大啦"},{"start":116.565,"end":145.748,"text":"那如果未來301會不會對我們造成嚴重的影響就目前來看的話301他關注的兩個議題就是生產過剩嘛另外是強迫勞動強迫勞動對我們來講的話目前看起來是相對的衝擊會比較沒那麼大那那個生產過剩的這個部分來講的話那可能會對於我們的貿易順差過多的話這個部分他們會有一些想法可是貿易順差過多的這個部分其實已經在ART在談判的時候其實已經有討論過"},{"start":146.308,"end":165.654,"text":"所以那個時候會跟美國簽的那一個協議是15不疊加可能也是因為這個部分的原因所以那一個整個貿易逆差過剩的這個部分就是我們對美國的貿易順差過多這個部分的話其實已經在談在簽訂那個ART的時候的話其實已經有談到"},{"start":166.314,"end":184.15,"text":"那這樣子會不會對於其他 因為我們的半導體還是長亡但是會不會對於其他的就是中小企業就是傳產這一塊喔或者是會有就是更不利的影響傳產這一塊的話就去年大概12月簽訂時候的話其實傳產對於15"},{"start":186.632,"end":213.333,"text":"15不疊掉這部分的話其實他們是相當的支持啦也就是說我們相對對於一些其他的一些競爭國譬如說像日本韓國的話我們其實跟他站在同一個起跑點雖然說我們長期以來跟其他國家簽NFT其實那個加速非常的少跟韓國沒有辦法比但整個產業在調整的過程當中的話只要說相對的優勢沒有差很多的話其實國內的廠商其實那個調適能力是非常強的"},{"start":216.415,"end":240.449,"text":"就食物不叠加的話其實是一直以來他們希望能夠達成的一個方向我只是想到那個台積電都可以去美國鳳凰城這樣子那麼嚴峻的那個地方那其實我們彰化也是你知道嗎我們彰化其實即便有一些地方是那個條件不是那麼好其實台積電也可以來投資嘛對不對"},{"start":241.109,"end":269.204,"text":"台積電有在台中但是不是要去彰化這個就看台積電了嗎看國發會主委有沒有大力的那個支持是不是跟台積電聊聊可以但還是企業自主尤其現在國發會你們是單一的窗口在就是我們那個保險業要投入公共建設那你們在就是說認定什麼樣子的基礎建設適用於這樣子的"},{"start":270.905,"end":296.852,"text":"你們是單一窗口嗎?對,我們會負責就是說廠商跟我們申請那有關他會歸屬在哪一類以及適用哪一個法規我們會跟相關的主管、機關去討論我們不會只是收件、送件,不會不會我們會進一步去討論我剛才看到了你的業務報告裡面你就涉及了非常多的公共建設以及相關的就是說基礎的建設嘛,對不對?"},{"start":298.772,"end":308.078,"text":"我想要請問你,到底台灣裡面有多少的這樣子的公共建設以及基礎建設是適用於保險業可以來投資的物流,我們現在新增訂的是物流跟AI算的對,我是說有多少,就是說規模"},{"start":320.18,"end":347.802,"text":"規模對你們有沒有統計規模過去幾年來你這樣子規劃過去幾年來到底有沒有保險業投資國內公共建設以及基礎建設重要的亮點計畫那這也要變成說未來怎麼樣引導保險業資金投入國內的基礎建設以及公共建設那這因為又涉及到所有的"},{"start":348.522,"end":371.301,"text":"保護的權益的問題以及就是說在風險的係數上面那怎麼樣子設定那當然保險業希望說風險係數較低以及有致償率的這樣子的項目比較符合保險業來投入國內的基礎產業以及公共建設等這樣子的一個誘因嘛是不是"},{"start":371.781,"end":380.361,"text":"那我們也希望導入這些資金來到於我們國內的公共建設以及基礎建設的投資那這個部分你們怎麼規劃"},{"start":381.621,"end":405.327,"text":"我們目前會跟財政部商量就是說他那個整個基礎建設以及公共建設這個範疇可不可以再大一點然後讓一些譬如說像數位基礎建設有興趣做數位基礎建設的這一些廠商也能夠適用這些租稅的優惠這樣子那譬如說數位的數據中心對像譬如說像比較"},{"start":407.515,"end":428.546,"text":"對 像算力中心的話已經公佈 還有另外一個就是剛剛通過就是物流就物流業嘛 對對對 就是基礎建設這一塊所以就是未來物流以及算力中心 還有就是下水道或者是污水處理這一塊 再生水廠 會嗎"},{"start":430.351,"end":455.951,"text":"這個我們再跟那個財政部那邊商量我們目前對也會嘗試的往這個部分去做規劃所以基本上只要是跟五大信賴產業還有AI新十大建設有關的一些產業然後只要他的現金流是一個穩定的話其實我們都可以考慮跟財政部來商量那未來有什麼亮點嗎"},{"start":457.11,"end":481.333,"text":"未來的亮點的話 基本上就是說開放民間去設置我說已經過去就是這個計畫裡面有沒有亮點可以提供大家知道說怎麼樣子讓保險業能夠就是這些資金能夠導入我們就是不管是地方建設也好就是這些基礎的建設目前我們我們嘗試的在讓現在規模都不夠大對不對"},{"start":482.094,"end":510.012,"text":"我們現在目前有談一個大概500億的啦是不是規模都不夠大廠商沒有辦法不方便透露啦就是說有一個大概有500億我覺得這個部分必須要再更加更多具體的案例以及怎麼樣子就是說引導這些保險業的資金能夠就是說投資國內的公共建設那這樣子對於不管是公部門也好 私部門也好那這樣子我們"},{"start":510.672,"end":513.336,"text":"台灣的經濟發展才有更好的成長"}]}},{"id":"167497","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167497","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6325a6efe1b09f69c0bc6757ec415edbe9ba3647d0b3df3c8eb3679e204ee1bbe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"10:46:04 - 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因為這次19年到現在國土署才開始召開那個都市教育委員會裡面的小組審查因為裡面的案 裡面的一些相關的問題很多所以一個一個 要再去跟地方去確定一些"},{"start":68.694,"end":77.42,"text":"要變更的一些必要性定定的所以這個問題那個地方政府過一段時間應該會再送過來送過來之後我們會再加速把這個案子再撤去稍後稍後如果過就去到党委會這樣我們就來加速辦理這怪託市長如果這要送起來我們速度要高快地方都很期待那另外一個案子就是我們大國港科技三元服務這個案子也送給我們來党委員會的選擇"},{"start":96.493,"end":98.555,"text":"在這裡請問市長 國情的進度是怎樣?國情有在裡面開過一次會 後來這個案有開過一次會 我們才有這個意見 再做一些修正後來我們有跟我們的一些同仁 跟我們的委員會加速來去辦理"},{"start":116.779,"end":125.163,"text":"三月份的新任,這對地方的三月非常工作人員,也能夠促進零卡數很高,促進就業機會,所以這個國分可能要拜託我們國土署,我們加快照顧,再給我們倒三天,再來我請我們警政署張署長,"},{"start":142.353,"end":147.816,"text":"蔡署長,您再請回座,謝謝,署長好,新年快樂,新年快樂,我們平均一定國有危,我們有雙國有危,我們稍微開始,盡情加急調整生肖,我們檢測動力,這個加薪,其實我們吃苦,我直接要請問說,我們這個條件的內容,到底是什麼?"},{"start":166.791,"end":169.292,"text":"這個調整有能力的部分就是全國的經濟價值,六多的部分,台北市叫新北,本來一倍加到1.3倍另外四都,等於0.7個加到1倍"},{"start":182.156,"end":207.55,"text":"那台灣縣的各個警察局就是提升到0.4倍,我們府裡面也是一樣0.4那對於經營的稍微測驗,可以來實施那現在我有交代我們府裡面的局長,就把管理部報告因為我們的理事會已經有報告,希望就是管理黨以後到管理委員會去合併,那可以追溯到3.6以後就可以來發放"},{"start":209.565,"end":209.746,"text":"這個國分 這個公然"},{"start":213.874,"end":230.721,"text":"有增加健全及教育補助嗎?教育補助沒有,這是省錢加值這就是勤務的繁重加值教育補助是沒有關係的?平時專業大概增加一千九百四十我們的平時的保温本來是零點六十到零點八我們說零點幾的定於換算做授意就是差不多兩千幾到三千左右"},{"start":243.96,"end":247.363,"text":"現在第二問題就是我們請問這間婚姻館的婚姻指甲室的館情這間新建的館有觀眾佳績最高到零點四是多少"},{"start":263.795,"end":279.924,"text":"10年兩次的失財經測而已才有才有3000塊才有才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊才有3000塊"},{"start":293.192,"end":303.521,"text":"不然以我們婚姻經濟教育的理事會是有救的所以我們是有救的 不然另外再加一筆錢來支付這個錢不用另外 因為這個理事會用來支付這一筆的房仲傑是夠的 我們有核算過"},{"start":315.911,"end":318.833,"text":"好,感謝書長,現在就是基層員警,我們經過黨人質詢的過分,我們檢察是一個登記存在性的一個危險的問題,高官費有比較多,高官費最多,像現在官方那樣的委員會有今天11個"},{"start":340.558,"end":357.574,"text":"做加班費嘛,我們的加班費的上限可以到一萬九千塊,可以到一萬九千塊,不是說一萬,可以到一萬九千塊,我們這個國分成的,可以再調整一下,可以再調整一下,我們來,就像你講的,我們再來研議看完啦,對啦,跟著你講,整個性的問題啦,真的是非常辛苦,是是是,我們每一天在記者,我們每天都看得到,對,我們每天都看得到,希望說他們可以,"},{"start":366.742,"end":369.924,"text":"可以讓我們中央政府來重視他們的生活感謝委員 感謝好 署長你先休息我請我們的消防署長"},{"start":383.619,"end":385.1,"text":"市長好 新年快樂新年快樂"},{"start":413.699,"end":424.166,"text":"他們有非常大的信心就是我們中央跟地方都全力來支持他們讓他們對待這個地安問題救災問題他們都可以全力以赴來替我們地方解決這個問題所以我們現在有重視著他們的這個信仰有來自這個他們的福利來增加這也是我們非常期待非常高興的一個結果"},{"start":440.716,"end":449.762,"text":"再拜託警政署、消防署加油,還有海巡署,海巡署也非常辛苦,我們也要跟他們道歉,"},{"start":455.629,"end":456.49,"text":"謝謝林學中委員那我們休息五分鐘"}]}},{"id":"167505","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167505","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f65d00b47b898bda89f4d454d79684183abfd7ce027fbc82e0913bf80977d0b5285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李貞秀","委員發言時間":"10:11:43 - 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start":0.069,"end":0.63,"text":"不許內政部"},{"start":18.609,"end":40.497,"text":"我再重申一次基於海運長上個禮拜對於法律協商的結論我們委員會尊重李貞秀女士上台發言但我們也尊重行政院目前所有的結論行政官員可以不必尋答而且可以不必提供資料 謝謝"},{"start":42.256,"end":63.301,"text":"韓院長請主席才是今天在內政委員會其實本來應該要討論民生議題顯然內政部的態度就是不關心民生只想做政治鬥爭民進黨政府根本不關心居住正義請主席做出公正才是如韓國瑜院長所指示尊重立法院已經就任的立法委員謝謝主席"},{"start":65.642,"end":84.057,"text":"謝謝李正修女士,我還是尊重你的發言不好意思,那個主席時間請暫停,權宜問題不能佔用我的時間,謝謝好來,請你繼續發言OK對,那所以就是有請劉部長上台,謝謝我們尊重行政院,行政院的官員可以不用上台那時間繼續暫停,謝謝,我再等"},{"start":94.315,"end":122.939,"text":"今天內政部代表行政部門來立法院備詢,內政部有義務要帳上質詢,來接受質詢行政部門這樣的態度意義何在?是否藐視國會?請主席猜試我覺得行政立法互相尊重,所以說我們也尊重行政院,行政院官員可以不用上台其實所有的委員會也都會遇到,我們尊重李貞秀女士的發言"},{"start":123.459,"end":146.947,"text":"OK 那其實台灣是法治國家 大家國人都在看對 那中華民國憲法還在這邊任何的一個立法委員的資格 要請依循法律判決今天假設我質疑劉旭芳女士 我質疑她貪污的話難道她今天就沒有資格任內政部部長了嗎"},{"start":148.419,"end":163.112,"text":"是不是要等到法律判決,起碼我要先去提告,然後等法庭三審判決定议,他的貪污罪才成立所有的官員都沒有這個法律的問題,但是李貞秀女士目前的這個身份是有法律問題法律判決了嗎?主委"},{"start":165.414,"end":183.652,"text":"有人提到了嗎?法律判決了嗎?韓院長已經裁示,我現在是合法的中華民國立法委員,謝謝主席請主席保持公正我再次重申法律不能用協商的所以我們尊重李貞秀女士對,我也尊重判決,謝謝那我們是不是可以開始繼續時間"},{"start":185.222,"end":200.161,"text":"但是我要請劉部長先上台行政院的官員可以不用上台OK好,我也不好意思耽誤剩下的委員的時間那我今天就來問好了,一樣繼續時間沒有關係好,謝謝李貞秀女士"},{"start":203.976,"end":221.289,"text":"那居住正義被所有國人關注本席要問賴清德總統選前提出社會住宅從蔡總統的12萬戶加碼至13萬戶現在只剩下4萬戶請問劉部長這算不算公然跳票"},{"start":227.054,"end":242.301,"text":"你們一邊盤點9.4萬戶設宅用地,一邊享用土地不足,蓋了也沒人住,當作政策跳票的藉口盤點花了納稅人那麼多預算,現在變4萬戶,請告訴國人剩下的5.4萬戶要怎麼處理所以目前行政院都是沒有回應就對了"},{"start":253.933,"end":264.003,"text":"再來國土署署長那我有請國土署署長上台好嗎我這次重申我們尊重李貞秀女士的發言時間暫停所以要等嗎還是我繼續"},{"start":272.308,"end":288.745,"text":"繼續好了好謝謝這個國人都在看了希望大家用選票給出公正的回應謝謝好再來國土署署長提到不蓋社宅的理由是市區精華地近乎用盡即便興建"},{"start":290.166,"end":310.418,"text":"也可能因區位或需求不足而沒有人租本心要問為何不導入TOD我們台灣民進黨的創黨主席柯文哲在台北市長任內就已經有成功的案例內政部在蔡政府時期對這些工具也非常了解為何賴政府不做"},{"start":311.522,"end":333.428,"text":"所以這個政府一直在蔡政府時代陸配參政就任沒有任何問題到賴政府的時候行政部門全體抵觸他不喜歡的立法委員再來你們一直強調社會住宅一直強調會有社宅新辦計畫送進來但住團已經明確控訴內政部2024年8月就已經提"},{"start":340.107,"end":361.87,"text":"處下階段設宅新辦計畫行政院到今天都還沒有核定到底什麼時候才會核定完成所以這個也是沒有答案所以這個劉部長要回答嗎"},{"start":365.063,"end":374.767,"text":"OK好所以一樣劉部長任何的問題民眾的任何問題都沒有回應我們繼續請問劉部長你知道現在有多少人在等社會住宅嗎好一樣不知道是嗎那你不知道我來告訴你現在民眾登記社宅抽籤比中樂透還難"},{"start":385.695,"end":399.521,"text":"結果我們看到的是什麼就以林口社宅為例被媒體住戶爆料說園區裡面目前上百戶的社宅空在那邊不只少了租金收入也為園區的安全也成為園區的安全隱患"},{"start":403.513,"end":412.921,"text":"民眾候補已經排到了1400多號這在資源配置上顯然有重大的疏失怎麼可能一邊人民搶破頭一邊還有社宅閒置在那請部長給國人一個理由部長一樣不回應嗎"},{"start":424.446,"end":445.038,"text":"請大家看看民進黨政府那個劉世芳部長有多傲慢我接下來開始叫劉世芳女士住都中心讓社宅空的不給住民眾看得到吃不到不好意思這裡可以幫我請那個住都中心的董事長花敬群董事長上台嗎我們一樣尊重行政院的態度謝謝"},{"start":451.394,"end":466.737,"text":"OK好所以大家看看這個傲慢的行政團隊謝謝任何未來如果他不喜歡的立法委員這個比大罷免好用啊好我們繼續住都中心讓社宅空的不給住民眾看得到吃不到"},{"start":467.618,"end":481.215,"text":"證明了駐都中心管理成效不彰然而駐都中心的人事費用連年增加從114到115四年間已經暴增超過兩倍大家可以看那個圖表"},{"start":483.246,"end":498.427,"text":"四年間社宅不蓋可是人事費用暴增兩倍聽到了很多傳言變成而且人員流動率是異常的頻繁聽說是變成所以現在駐都中心少蓋社宅"},{"start":498.928,"end":514.137,"text":"每年的薪水獎金還可以不斷加碼所以我就要請問內政部部長跟駐都中心的董事長請問現在駐都中心已經變成坐領甘心的酬庸中心了嗎?這要回應一下嗎?國人很想知道"},{"start":519.403,"end":538.412,"text":"OK 再來最後社會住宅政策是重大的民生議題社宅新辦不能選前開支票選後騙選票就例如賴總統去看陸配的店家一樣但是他的行政團隊今天在國會抵制陸配委員"},{"start":540.25,"end":558.405,"text":"本席要求第一競速核定新一波社宅興建計畫賴總統任期已經過了兩年多還在空轉除了大罷免大家對賴政府還有任何印象嗎再來打陸配這是可以大概新聞可以超過大罷免了OK"},{"start":560.08,"end":578.623,"text":"就是第一号本席要求尽速核定新一波涉载新建计划赖总统的任期已经过了两年多还在空转请内政部提出时程报告两个礼拜内提交给内政委员会的所有委员所以这样就表示如果刘部长不回应表示两个礼拜没有问题"},{"start":580.54,"end":607.257,"text":"好再來第二請內政部協同相關單位立刻盤點閒置社宅數量了解閒置原因提出相對政策將書面報告於三個禮拜內送來給內政委員會第三請駐都中心解釋人事支出四年暴增兩倍的理由一個禮拜內以書面報告書面資料送交內政委員會謝謝主席"},{"start":615.105,"end":637.757,"text":"我要請問那個吃台灣米喝台灣水長大的民進黨高官請記得你是中華民國的內政部部長不是民進黨的內政部部長你的薪水也是中華民國所有納稅人的薪水而不是民進黨發給你薪水也並不是你的台灣國發給你薪水請尊重中華民國憲法謝謝謝謝李貞秀女士的發言接下來"}]}},{"id":"167498","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167498","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f66adb201dc3e617460bc6757ec415edbebfd7ce027fbc82e0020e7f4b4ca561565ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"10:55:08 - 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請葉主委請國務卿 葉主委委員長"},{"start":19.711,"end":35.285,"text":"主委最近我們台灣的經濟實力展現的非常的強勁而且有韌性但是我們看到所有社會的世界各國裡面大概都集中在AI晶片的需求"},{"start":35.945,"end":43.689,"text":"所以我們整個推升了半導體供應鏈的出口成長所以在2025年的時候我們國際對於我們國家的經濟成長率的已經高達的8.68%在我們的人均國內的生產毛額這個部分的話也來到了37,830元的這個美元所以我們首度看到我們有超越了日本跟韓國尤其是我們主要"},{"start":62.819,"end":83.207,"text":"的這個成長都是集中在這個AI的部分那我們希望我們看到經濟成長的當下我們對於我們人口結構這部分我們也要關注但是少手化情形是越來越嚴重在我們2025年的經濟成長這麼高的情況下已經15年新高了但是我們看到我們的"},{"start":85.047,"end":108.615,"text":"這個少子化的情形 已經61個月都一直在下降出生率都低於這個死亡率所以請問一下國防會對這方面有沒有在檢視或者在評估就人口推估這個部分來講我們今年還會再做一次因為沒兩年我們會做人口的那個推估那因為上一次做推估的時候"},{"start":110.356,"end":126.879,"text":"那個估計值有點相對的比較樂觀一些啦所以造成那個差距有比較大那我們今年再做一次的話會相對的改善一些推估的一些方法然後讓那個整個少子化的關鍵問題在哪裡你知道嗎就是不昏不生嘛"},{"start":128.131,"end":148.84,"text":"年輕人不婚的原因第一個當然是不婚不生的原因造成不婚不生的原因第一個是職場有沒有友善以及經濟壓力啦還有就是說整個譬如說像價值觀的一些還沒有辦法很快的能夠轉變譬如說像男性"},{"start":150.46,"end":159.385,"text":"我們看到亮眼的成績都在AI跟半導體將台灣的勞動力八成都在這個製造業跟服務業所以這薪資停滯跟帶來整個我們工作環境的狀況所以看會推升了整個物價房價跟養育的成本這就是最關鍵的問題所以房價也是居高的問題所以你要怕養不起小孩所以不生不養的問題"},{"start":176.434,"end":200.173,"text":"才會造就出來所以現在你們的推估裡面就是說在2021年連續61個月出生率都低於這個死亡率在2025年你們這出生人口你們本來推估到12萬後來出生人口變成是10萬7812人很多的專家學者都說今年也許會跌破9萬人您的看法呢"},{"start":203.482,"end":221.173,"text":"是不是會跌破9萬我們看但我們盡量就是說從最壞的情境去假設這個人口的狀況你也說了你們之前的評估可能太過於樂觀那這樣子你們還是說會推估的這整個假設的情境跟統計的這個模型是不是已經過時了"},{"start":222.054,"end":224.575,"text":"我們這個部分會在這一次的時候做適當的改善看看你們這個情境 假設的情境是不是太過於樂觀因為我一直在跟你強調 房價 物價 養育成本這你要注意的 好不好"},{"start":238.2,"end":252.473,"text":"那所以說在你人口推估的報告裡面這50年的人口結構的變化裡面你們推估出來的結果是這樣子的話你們在整體的報告裡面今年的推估報告會再延後嗎"},{"start":254.335,"end":273.651,"text":"之前你們延後了,那今年是兩年一次嗎?今年會再延後嗎?8月就會出來,要如期出來那所有剛剛提到的重點你們也要好好的去檢視一番但這一邊也跟那個委員大概分享一下就是說其實我們在做推估的時候其實還有另外一個重點是我們大部分是看長期的"},{"start":274.111,"end":282.595,"text":"像這種短期的波動的話我們也會考慮進來但不會說是短期沒有改善長期也看不出來對這個會有一些因果關係是沒有錯這個數據才會標準嘛你們當然是看50年的啦但是你這每兩年去推估的話才會適時的改進你們評估的方向有錯的地方才會做修正我們會滾動式調整"},{"start":295.2,"end":309.009,"text":"另外一個就是說從長期的角趨勢去看的話比較能夠擬定比較合適的一些人口政策因為長期長期的趨勢假如說比較能夠掌握的話那人口政策的推估的話會比較能夠確實這樣子"},{"start":310.43,"end":327.447,"text":"是 所以本席也提醒你的最重要的關鍵問題所以你們的一定要把放進去做個評估的標準尤其是物價房價現在很多是房子你要選擇房子還選擇孩子這二選一耶已經到達這種程度了所以不昏不生"},{"start":328.408,"end":350.932,"text":"不養這情形會越來越加劇所以主委一定要看看你們整個設定的標準模式要符合現在社會整個環境的結構 好不好好 謝謝委員那在接下來的話 本市要請教主委的問題就是說現在我們國發會在近期公布的一月份的景氣燈號已經連續兩個月都是紅燈"},{"start":354.533,"end":365.52,"text":"我們出口是能夠呈現是穩健的成長但是我們國際局勢的話不確定的因子一直在增加當中那整個美國對於這高關稅的這個一直變來變去一下32%到20%到現在的"},{"start":371.964,"end":393.791,"text":"ART還沒有簽訂他就現在推一個122條款出來現在又有301條款這些情形我想請教主委你對於現在他們在122條款跟301的話你有什麼看法122條款跟301的話其實301其實是在補足就是說美國他們先前宣稱要去"},{"start":394.511,"end":417.098,"text":"全世界柯真的那個對等關稅那個稅率他就要去滿足這樣一個東西但對我們來講的話因為我們跟美國已經有達成一個協議所以其實我們至少已經達成什麼協議就是台美的那一個ART跟那個MOU嘛就是至少我們跟美國當然還要再送國會啦送我們立法院啦但至少在談判上面來講的話"},{"start":418.737,"end":440.443,"text":"美國的那個貿易署也有說過就是說他們在實行這個301的調查的時候也會參照說有簽協議的這些國家的一些狀況這樣子所以其實某個程度來講的話我們至少在ART跟MOU這個部分來講的話我們拿到的兩個最惠國的待遇的話其實對於我們產業來講這個最惠國待遇還生效嗎"},{"start":443.064,"end":468.585,"text":"第一個就是說目前還在跟美方那一邊做協商所以還沒有簽訂嘛所以在美國高等法院這個判決之後對於之前的所有的談好的這些關稅都是無效的所以才有後面的現行的122條款的10加N122條款跟那個美國那個最高法院那個是不一樣我知道那就推翻之前的稅率要適用於122條款嘛"},{"start":468.925,"end":473.186,"text":"不過現在我們的稅率是10%加MFA所以現在又還有301你剛剛講的會對於我們這些東南亞國家16國裡面做一些調查因為就目前美國貿易署宣稱的那個301的話他有分兩部分"},{"start":486.311,"end":497.873,"text":"美國一波是要調查所謂的那一個過剩產能另外一個是強迫勞動那就強迫勞動這個部分來講其實我們在跟美國協商那一個MOU跟ART的時候其實就有談過那美方對於我們目前的執行狀況也算是我們要去關心美國會去用這個301的話最重要是看說美國跟其他國家的這個貿易逆差的有沒有繼續擴大繼續擴大的話他可能就是有一些要保護他們政策所以"},{"start":517.042,"end":524.992,"text":"國發會你們相關的就是你們負責的就是我所有資源的分配跟所有各部會的協調所以你要好好的去做個協調的工作讓我們的關稅能夠穩定讓產業能夠永續發展好不好好沒問題謝謝謝謝李玉琳委員謝謝國會主席"}]}},{"id":"167494","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167494","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6d7806ba7b2794de19845512775efda379ba3647d0b3df3c8f330b95b4a3246f55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"10:28:37 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那有請主計長和沈計長上台 謝謝請陳主計長跟陳沈計長委員好"},{"start":22.443,"end":36.526,"text":"主席長好 沈記長好我們來瞭解 去年的時候立法院修法提高了軍人的待遇跟警校退休的所得替代率但是行政院卻沒有編預算這總共都超過有20萬的警校能夠受益這個法是在4月27號去年的時候生效是一件好事 但是我們可以看到在行政院還沒有編列這個預算 最終是他沒有編了這個差額"},{"start":51.59,"end":79.625,"text":"那這個差額當中如果以的是警政二階來看的話114年他一個月的差額就達到了5000元那每新增一年的這個差距就會更大了那主計長我們就當要詢問是說到底是部會呢他沒有去提出來包括是國防部啦還有內政部等或者是權敘部等呢他沒有提這樣的一個概算的概算跟預算的需求還是"},{"start":81.706,"end":96.196,"text":"還是他們提了但是你們把他刻意忽略掉了那這部分還是說府院有高層下令跟你們講不要去編列請主席長您清楚的在這個地方跟國人說清楚"},{"start":97.836,"end":124.362,"text":"事實上按照道理如果說要提出一個支出的一個需求應該要先尋求行政院的一個同意籌託裁員這個部分那第二個因為它整個一個軍人加薪的部分它是破壞整個公務人員整個薪給的一個制度造成公務人員他整個薪階的一個不平衡所以這個整個制度破壞對於後面的影響很大"},{"start":126.062,"end":141.14,"text":"主席 您的意思是說行政院因為前述的原因所以他就下令不准部會們跟全序部部會們他們提出的概算需求嗎不是 我再說明一下因為這個變成是說另外一個就是說"},{"start":141.761,"end":148.549,"text":"他整個一個退休制度的一個改變對將來整個一個退休薪金的影響非常他整個一個帳戶的影響非常大所以這個部分呢我們是有提視線所以我們還是等視線結果這就是你們問大的問題了"},{"start":160.121,"end":178.218,"text":"行政院是行政機關市縣還沒有結果出現的時候那是司法機關的責任在這個地方你們自己把他當作在市縣也沒有作出暫時處分你們卻把他當作是這個地方就不處理就是不編列這地方的確是違法失職啊不是嗎"},{"start":179.579,"end":183.442,"text":"再次要說得清楚行政院已經僭越了自己的職責跑到他們職責 僭越了司法院的職責這個地方僭越了才是真正在違憲的呢"},{"start":209.079,"end":235.998,"text":"因為行政院他只能做行政院的部門他依法行政 他就是立法院通過的他沒有做出 他就說事先檢證沒有暫時處分就是不應該就是你們應該做依法行政你們自己違法的 違憲的你們還在講那麼大話等事先的處分這是不可以的就是在講這邊我就是跟大家講出來所以你剛才已經講了是行政院的部會沒有提出來但是這件事是因為總統給下令的地方要等"},{"start":236.878,"end":264.99,"text":"司法院、憲法法院的違憲判決所以這個結果就是這樣的情況那這邊我再跟大家講現在在這邊我們現在已經知道了齁目前的現在115年的部分呢就也有相關的也有相關的這個退府人員這個警校這邊要退休這邊呢應該看起來就是說因為我們民眾黨也幫了警校人員去做集體訴訟齁那我們現在看看是說今年馬上要遇到的是如果五六月份在編"},{"start":266.09,"end":279.183,"text":"下一年度的預算行政警消人員的退伏的這個基金的部分的要撥補政府應該撥補的部分的話請問請問主席長你今年五六月份如果還沒有出來結果你們會怎麼辦你們會編嗎我們還是會視線的一個結果來編列"},{"start":286.131,"end":288.476,"text":"違法違憲的方式就繼續呈現而且呢根據我們現在上次有問到全序部的施能傑部長他已經說了這部分因為"},{"start":298.086,"end":325.162,"text":"每個月欠該退休的人員以這樣的中士警察的中士階的這部分來講一個月五千元他已經有了這個審定書這退休審定書就已經可以做訴訟之後就到時候如果被行政訴訟行政法院如果被打臉都判決是政府應該要被強制執行他去撥補這些錢的話那真的是對行政院最大的打臉了我是提醒你們要應該知道行政院不能夠僭越違憲"},{"start":328.264,"end":338.046,"text":"權力分立的原則 跨到司法院的司法權這才是你們該做的 趕快去編入已經有記錄出來了 這部分已經做訴訟了這樣有結果出來 你們就是會被打臉的狀況好 我們繼續往下看喔 抱歉再往上看好 那繼續看一下 我想要問的是沈記長沈記長 針對"},{"start":351.318,"end":370.223,"text":"剛才所說的行政院的部會或是全序部他不編政府應該因為在立法院通過的法律三讀通過公布之後他不編列政府的法定應撥補治退府基金的預算的行為陳記長 陳記長有沒有權利要求行政機關去改善如果有的話方法是什麼謝謝委員關心這個問題"},{"start":377.475,"end":405.774,"text":"這一個部分 預算的編制權在行政院預算的損益權在立法院我們損棄部是結算的損定這一個部分因為要通過一個法令 院裡面通過一個法令如果重大支出可能要協商一下在那個預算法裡面是要協商一下行政單位那我們"},{"start":407.674,"end":435.041,"text":"審計部的立場因為這個法案已經公布了我們會在審查年度結算的時候來評估看看這一個部分會給行政院或是相關單位一些建議好我們知道審計部在結算不過他要等到大概一年之後嘛對不對好再看好那我們繼續往下看這個地方就是這個藐視國會的這個行政院的部分的確要把它改進那我們繼續往下看下一個問題"},{"start":436.874,"end":438.817,"text":"主計數您在二月份的時候呢公告了實質薪資這個月薪資到達4.8萬這樣的一個消息但是呢我們看到這個標題是非常的亮眼喔那月薪又突破多少是看起來蠻好的"},{"start":452.617,"end":480.656,"text":"但是這樣二十六年最大的漲幅其實有七成多的受僱員工他們的薪資根本就領不到平均數所以當你在公布這部分的資料的時候其實這七成員工他們心在糖血他們認為說他們是被成長的一群那你有沒有看到這個平均薪資跟經常薪資的差距有在縮小可能沒有喔或是請主席講你有沒有預警到在行政院院會當中我覺得預警到這個低薪跟中產階級貧窮化的問題嗎"},{"start":482.977,"end":510.502,"text":"我們也有公布所謂的一個薪資的中位數那這個部分其實我們今年總薪資是成長3.9也高過我們的一個那個物價指數2.21所以這個本身我們包括經濟成長和薪資成長是都有在成長只是說它行業別也各有都不同那我們這些也都有公布按照行業別"},{"start":513.302,"end":535.768,"text":"主席講零公佈之後,那你們提出剛才我所說的這些有些行業別其實真的是七成以下,七成左右他們是在這個平均數字下的你們把這個意見跟行政院講,他們應該就針對部分,怎麼樣不是把像所謂AI的產業啊都是變成是最高的,然後就變成說在帶動,可是其他人在哀嚎啊,有把這個意見反映出去嗎?"},{"start":536.408,"end":558.885,"text":"是所以我們整個一個基本的薪資他也不斷在調整也就是為了讓這種的一個差距縮小所以我們薪資調整你還是沒有說到方法啊我們基本工資也做調整然後也鼓勵各鼓勵獲利的一個公司能夠盡量把盈餘做分配給同仁做為薪資所以這個部分有"},{"start":559.966,"end":578.432,"text":"更像的一個優惠基本工資只有三萬塊錢而已三萬塊錢而已但是現在平均數你說達到四萬多根本就是沒辦法達到這差距實在很大主席你們這邊是不是能夠給報告說把你們當初給行政院的部分給本期一個報告是是是我們再補充"},{"start":579.953,"end":584.137,"text":"補充資料給委員一個禮拜之內那我們繼續再看看其實我們更擔心的是這一個所增加的幅度其實是因為加班而造成的剛才說電子業的加班時數它其實高達說13.8%那製造業有高達10%"},{"start":596.269,"end":601.871,"text":"那整個情況之下呢就會造成說其實他是因為他平均的薪資不足他才又透過加班的薪資加班的方式而且剛剛您說的喔他所增長的這樣的一個薪資喔事實上的漲幅跟他們加班的這個時數的漲幅呢是不成比例啦13.88成長可能才4%"},{"start":616.596,"end":636.338,"text":"跟委員報告其實他加班是因為AI的景氣那帶動那個所謂的一個製造業也跟著好所以是因為景氣好而增加的一個加班他並不是說因為薪資低的加班所以你整個的業情況就是我們的發展通通集中在"},{"start":637.179,"end":641.021,"text":"AI跟相關產業嘛 高科技的產業這部分其他的 我們的零售業 我們傳統的部分都是受害者啊這部分傳產也有增加 只是它增加的弧度沒有AI的那麼大那沒關係 你如果這樣講也沒問題但是你知道嗎"},{"start":653.169,"end":676.463,"text":"平均以加班加工那個電子業的時候呢他們平均呢一個月要增加27個小時等於說他平均呢他一收是工作6天當然這種6天的情況他怎麼可能去生小孩他怎麼可能去有時間去照顧小孩所以這個地方呢行政院是罪魁禍首啊這部分讓如果新資的這部分能夠合理的去平均的話這才是對我們最大的幫助啊"},{"start":678.484,"end":694.881,"text":"那這個主席再等我大概一分鐘結束就好了我想那個蘇檳委員是不是請那個主計長他把你要的資料書面答覆給你好不好那我再提出一個問題就好就是把問題提出來那你才可以給我資料好不好就是這樣講出話就好了"},{"start":695.922,"end":712.159,"text":"就是呢 我們剛才看到的是 現在已經在那個美伊戰爭嘛那這邊呢 看到的是 原油是非常重要的那這個CPI的預測會多少 如果戰爭長達半年或一年有沒有相關配套措施 有沒有跟其他部位事情這部分 那是不是就請主計長你這邊 之後在大概一個禮拜之內給報告"},{"start":715.202,"end":735.07,"text":"是 我們大概3、4月的油價都已經有調整好那5月以後也目前在努力當中那我們行政院有一個物價穩定小組包括中油 包括台電都會互相來做一個整個一個做調節的作用 益智雙張好 給報告就好了 謝謝主席長 謝謝沈議長好 謝謝蘇冰委員接著我們請顏寬恆委員質詢"}]}},{"id":"167493","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167493","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6e9358b83005b07980bc6757ec415edbe9ba3647d0b3df3c843cbf47c3bf192685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"10:29:45 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有請國安會葉主委好 請葉主委主委您辛苦了我想國安會主要的這個在政府裡面定位是要規劃協調國家的重大的政策規劃很重要 協調也很重要有些的重大的政策是牽涉到跨部會的我第一個問題要請教一下葉主委就是說運動產業"},{"start":41.721,"end":61.195,"text":"如果能夠發展的好 是一個很大的商機如果規劃不好 就變成說看球賽的也少 周邊的商機也少以日本的例子來看 日本的這個運動產業 過去二三十年發展非常好我想請問您 如果要推動運動產業的發展 這個屬於運動部的業務 還是屬於經濟部的業務"},{"start":66.745,"end":95.228,"text":"產業的話我認為應該是運動部跟經濟部要一起這個當然是跨部會的我查過日本日本是他們文部省下面有個運動廳加上他們的這個內閣裡面的這個經濟產業省METC共同去規劃政策去執行編列預算不可能單一這個由運動部或者由經濟部所以你看他們的職棒"},{"start":96.53,"end":105.929,"text":"幾乎每一場他們有兩個聯盟球隊那麼多每一場都是客滿每一場都滿場不只職棒他們的職單也是如此"},{"start":107.454,"end":133.082,"text":"職業足球也是如此職業足球現在人數超過這個值棒所以這就是有政策在推動過去20年前台灣的這個男子足球水平跟日本是一樣的現在日本已經變成全世界這個前10名的這個非常重要的強隊那台灣還是100多名如果政府有政策支持"},{"start":134.451,"end":161.528,"text":"一個產業就會發展所以這個部分我是希望說國會站在一個協調規劃的一個角色能夠跟經濟部跟這個運動部結合起來看看怎麼樣讓台灣不用現在台灣有大巨蛋農藥4萬可是他們滿場的機率不大那當然比過去幾年進步很多了歸舉大概不到1萬現在這個去年的數據大概都超過1萬但日本是4萬"},{"start":164.125,"end":191.246,"text":"美國也是如此所以我是期待說未來啊這個我也想說基金委員會是如果有機會去考察考察日本怎麼樣去推動運動產業的發展包括從大巨蛋的選址規劃這個也是國家重要的政策然後產業怎麼樣去透過減稅優惠然後讓越多的企業能夠投入這個"},{"start":193.372,"end":220.606,"text":"讓民眾能夠把它當作這個生活的一個部分這樣子運動產業能夠振興起來這個運動帶動國力所以這種我希望說是不是儘快由國安委去統和了那以下台日關係友好您私人身份可不可以去日本可以啊可以嘛當然你是這個政府重要的這個算是閣員也是日本相當於大臣"},{"start":222.216,"end":239.447,"text":"國發會定位你相對日本他們是哪一個大臣應該是經濟安保吧我的認知經濟安保是內閣府底下的特命擔當大臣經濟安保特命大臣還有金融特命金融大臣是屬於任務編組有時候奧運什麼奧運大臣"},{"start":243.055,"end":270.274,"text":"所以他現在就是大概是Akazawa是斥責大臣負責美日的這個關稅談判就是斥責但是他平常另外還有一個經濟產業省是斥責亮正我剛剛說的是小野田小野田紀美是目前高市首相非常重要的左右手所以高市首相任命他為內閣府的所謂經濟再生這個經濟產業大臣"},{"start":273.51,"end":278.175,"text":"所以這個部分我希望說如果我們台日關係那麼友好"},{"start":279.979,"end":305.321,"text":"這國化會也可以試著這個突破是不是跟他們的這個內閣府裡面的這個這個產業經濟產業這個再生大臣啊或者他們相關的這些主管或者是經濟產業省MVTC有一些業務的交流他們包括少子化的對策包括這個運動產業怎麼去振興啊他們都很完整這個幕僚的規劃"},{"start":307.495,"end":319.23,"text":"所以我覺得這個台日之間在官方特別是非安全部門經濟部門的這個這個事務階層或者官方階層的這個官員的這個協調啊"},{"start":322.831,"end":348.668,"text":"這個很重要 這個主委你會不會去規劃有有有 目前正在規劃怎麼樣來進行加深就是說日本的一些經濟政策 尤其是經濟安保這一塊以及其他的一些 譬如說像委員講的一些運動產業的發展不是派一個經濟組的同仁收集資料 我是說你要從團去對對對 會會會拜訪他們的 包括小野田 紀美這個大臣 包括施澤亮這大臣會過嗎"},{"start":350.109,"end":377.692,"text":"因為提出這個需求 我想以現在高市所向對台灣的友好行政院54年第一次去到日本同樣我覺得有很多過去做不到的我們趁著這個台日關係最友好的時候能夠去突破也許你可以代團 代經濟部 代局部有在規劃跟他們討論什麼樣的 各項政策 少子化什麼樣的都可以跟他們請教"},{"start":379.279,"end":402.029,"text":"好 謝謝外人另外這個大巨蛋就是說不要說大巨蛋我認為說這個AI時代應該是大製彈Smart Dong不是一個很傳統的蓋一個大型室內的場館這個不要重複資源浪費要選擇一個最有力的場址不要每個縣市都去設要去協調協調北 中 南"},{"start":406.158,"end":432.361,"text":"都有一個大型室內表演或是比賽場館也許因地制宜台北市大概有4萬可能南部就不需要那麼多南部可能就是2萬然後你要有捷運通過你要有產業的配合比方說我的選區就是鋼三橋頭是螺絲扣進的重鎮也有鋼鐵也有捷運高速公路也方便離機場也近"},{"start":433.991,"end":462.182,"text":"而且還有這個三級棒球的這個這個訓練基地這個我希望說未來可以藉由其他國家經驗有好的交通環境有這個相關的這個後勤的安排後勤補給這個不要那麼大這個Smart Dong把AI導入用最經濟的這個生產的成本比如我們是鋼鐵扣件這些是我們在地的原料"},{"start":463.45,"end":475.673,"text":"人才也多土地又是台堂的所以這部分國安會應該要去協調而不是由各當各縣市自己去爭奪戰如果你誕生的不好那後面的維管問題很嚴重誕生的好啊帶動運動產業的發展我認為啊未來這個大型運動場館室內運動場館的這個開發建設這個要比照捷運"},{"start":493.911,"end":500.137,"text":"中央要支持 要審查通過之後給一些地方政府一些建議加上裁員補助"},{"start":502.107,"end":528.732,"text":"這個諸位您覺得呢就這個部分來講的話我們會從我們自己國發會本身開始做因為我也在思考就是說我們中興新村裡面有很多運動場館但那個運動場館不見得是放假我們沒有提到中興新村我是提到我南部那一塊我知道我知道但就是說對於整個運動產業的規劃來講的話我們會開始先從我們自己我是召委我要以身作則因為時間到了那其他的問題我日後再跟你請教好沒問題沒問題謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167504","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167504","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6ca5568118779e1af9845512775efda37bfd7ce027fbc82e0913bf80977d0b5285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:13:52 - 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我們請主席長主席長好 辛苦了那本席我看你今天所貼出來的報告但是這個報告我覺得這個主席長好像還是非常的樂觀這個對於這個今年的這個GDP的成長率還是估算有7.71%"},{"start":32.853,"end":53.395,"text":"但是呢 因為這個報告應該是這幾天才提出來的那但是我看一下 主席長你沒有把說美國現在在打伊朗嘛然後中東戰爭石油的危機那也不知道哪時候會結束然後呢 現在就是說這個因為美國的這個對等關稅已經被撤銷了那我們現在跟他重新再談判然後呢 他又重寫這個301的調查"},{"start":54.936,"end":79.622,"text":"這些都是一些不穩定的因素但是我看這個主計長的這個報告裡面都沒有把這些不確定的這一些甚至是負面的因素把它加進去那請問一下主計長這個今年對於這個GDP的成長率還是有這麼高的樂觀的7.71%的這一個預估嗎甚至這個人均GDP有到44181美元然後呢消費者物價指數CPI呢還是處在這個2%以下的這個溫和區1.68還有這麼樂觀嗎"},{"start":84.335,"end":103.97,"text":"我跟委員報告,事實上因為我們去年也是經濟成長也很好,8.68,那今年7.71在那個高成長之下,要再這麼高是呢?但是問題是我們的一月份它的出口就非常的暢旺,它整個成長成長非常大對,一月份二月份其實都沒有我剛才講的那些因素嘛,對不對?"},{"start":104.69,"end":131.73,"text":"所以到二月底才發生所以我們在二月中旬的時候初估的部分就是7.71到二月底的時候中東戰事開始發生的時候所以這個部分影響到我們的部分當然是油價油價的一個上升那我們剛剛也提到油價上升百分之十會影響到我們GDP0.1的一個部分那如果成長一倍那就會往上再去加深"},{"start":132.19,"end":150.775,"text":"那本身還有一個物價的部分所以那時候算油價是每桶是多少錢1千58塊那現在已經double了吧719塊差不多是一倍嘛所以等於是說可能會成長一倍然後包括我們的物價那我們的物價也是大概成長10%會有0.24%這樣的一個所以我們目前但是問題是說我們行政院在"},{"start":159.017,"end":187.425,"text":"整個一個物價穩定小組對我知道我做了這些努力所以三四月目前天然氣石油都有台電中油還有一些台水相關的公司都有吸收所以這個部分我們以後就做針對這個因為政策因素而需要做賠償的部分我們損失的部分我們來做補貼或包括增資所以這個部分我希望讓民生的物價能夠穩定"},{"start":188.685,"end":196.57,"text":"這都是政府穩定物價的措施啊那我只是問主計長還對7.71的經濟成長率還要保持這麼樂觀的態度嗎因為我剛才講這些變數都持續在進行當中喔持續當中我跟委員報告我們物價指數是每個月修正每個月會公佈物價指數然後每三個月會公佈我們的"},{"start":214.082,"end":214.402,"text":"一定會受到影響的吧"},{"start":235.239,"end":238.24,"text":"一個是可稱是在我們的部分那現在政府有做了一些油電的一些穩定的措施至少到四月份為止"},{"start":251.985,"end":256.966,"text":"但是我們不知道戰爭何時會結束那油價一直在漲另外就是說我們美國的301調查也不知道調查情況是怎麼樣那我們跟美國關稅的談判情況是不是能維持過去所談好的15%不疊加這都還不確定所以其實主席處應該要戒慎恐懼不是說這麼的樂觀還是維持在這麼高的一個經濟成長率"},{"start":279.431,"end":299.714,"text":"我要跟委員報告 其實我們的一個評估都是比較保守有喔 去年是很保守啦 後來一下拉到8點多啊但是今年我看好像又比較樂觀了一點點今年7.71其實目前也是保守的一個只是因為這還是保守的估計喔我看妳的新聞稿是說還會再上揚"},{"start":300.895,"end":323.711,"text":"不過那是二月份啦但是因為我們的評估都是偏向保守的那除了這個戰爭的部分的因素之外那這個部分我們在談到的就是整個你說關稅的一個部分其實301的一個我們因為已經跟美國有已經簽訂ART包括MOU所以他對我的影響並不是那麼大"},{"start":324.111,"end":339.555,"text":"這個當然我們是希望說能夠維持15%不抵價我們就會盡量能夠維持這個是我們的期待但是美方是不是能夠按照我們期待這是另外一回事所以我說這是一個這是一個變數這是一個變數我當然是期待就是說還是維持按照我們之前跟美索"},{"start":339.935,"end":364.982,"text":"美國所談定的這些關稅的一些內容只是說這些黑天鵝都在啊但是我是看這個主席處交給我們的報告還是維持這麼樂觀的一個數字啦所以等於其實是對啊沒有啦我是說你現在是跟我們這個參委會做這個業務報告嘛理論上應該是提供一些比較新的一些數據然後呢把這些變數把它加進去那或許呢會受到這些影響這民眾會比較會比較關心這一部分啦是是"},{"start":369.344,"end":388.942,"text":"就是說像現在這個大家很關心說這個物價可能會受到這些影響,微幅會上升那現在有媒體在講說,台塑他們有提到說這個石化下游的一些基礎的原料,比如說PE,PP還有PPC受到這個中斷的一個風險"},{"start":391.264,"end":411.039,"text":"所以包含塑膠袋,各類的包材,這些民生基礎工業的物資可能成本會上漲那這些上漲會影響到什麼呢?會影響到我們的手搖飲業因為手搖飲業有很多的一些塑膠杯、吸管是會受到影響的然後小吃攤的塑膠袋,據說媒體的報導,塑膠袋單價也都提高了"},{"start":415.802,"end":434.498,"text":"那整個這個對於我剛才所提到的不論是手搖飲小吃攤甚至我們的網購跟物料都會受到影響價格都會提高這個都是跟民生息息相關的我不曉得說主計走數這邊有沒有去關心或是去了解現在這個民生物價受到的波動"},{"start":435.439,"end":458.104,"text":"跟委員報告,我們物價的部分,我們是每個月都要公佈它整個的一個物價的指數,每個月所以我們現在都會進行調查所以我是針對就是說,因為現在石油的問題嘛那我已經想到說,這些有可能這些小吃業者或是手搖飲業者這些會受到的影響,你們有沒有去關心要了解,特別針對這個石油會造成他們的成本提升這部分"},{"start":458.624,"end":482.007,"text":"是有關他們這個成本會提升的部分我們會把這個反進運到一個我們行政院的物價小組穩定小組裡面來討論那譬如說經濟部要針對哪些中小的一個產業必須要做一個扶持或者是說小資業的一個部要怎樣來一個補助這個部分就會由經濟部來研理相關的一個對策"},{"start":483.289,"end":492.324,"text":"那這個有納進去你們所謂的民生的一些核心的調查物價指數有涵蓋在這裡面嗎"},{"start":496.977,"end":515.371,"text":"我們整個我們整個會把這個我們還是會提報啦還是會提報讓上面來了解就是說因為石油會漲到哪的時候我們不知道我們當然希望說戰事很快就確定但是看起來伊朗還是有一些反擊的能力那荷姆斯海峽還是"},{"start":516.492,"end":538.118,"text":"這一個也要運出來還是會有一些問題所以民生物資多少會受到影響那這些都是跟我們民眾息息相關的我希望說主計總署這方面能夠多去了解一下提供給上面來做參考好那現在就是說立法院他們有通過這個718億的這一個新興的預算可以動之"},{"start":541.159,"end":557.403,"text":"那現在就是說有 雖然這個是不合常規的預算審查的一個狀態啦那在這部分的話 那718億就是先動資就對了是 我們已經簽願要來動資但是我們今年的預算是3兆嘛 3兆350億那他只動資了這個718億 動資不到一趴吧"},{"start":564.105,"end":583.914,"text":"是 所以還有包括因為這是新增預算的部分新增預算還有299億沒有通過然後那個比去年預算還要增加的部分有1805億也還沒有通過那再來就是我們的第一預備金還有第二預備金還有栽准金總共有170億沒有通過所以總共有2274億元沒有通過"},{"start":588.096,"end":602.835,"text":"那請教一下,雖然說原來這個計畫可以再延續再來做使用但是萬一真的立法院有來審查今年度的總運算,現在已經是快三月底了"},{"start":603.922,"end":629.82,"text":"那可是 比如說 本來是按照原定的計畫跟預算 大家也在用的比如說 前面可能用了三分之一或四分之一的那結果立法院真的審預算了這個預算就把你砍掉了二分之一 砍掉了三分之一這種情況也有可能發生啊那就變成公務員說 你不是可以按照原來的計畫來做嗎我按照原來的計畫來做結果你給我砍了三分之一 砍了四分之一造成我原來的計畫受到影響了"},{"start":632.242,"end":657.957,"text":"對啊 公務員怎麼辦 現在到底做還是不做所以這個就是讓公務人員很為懶的一個地方所以就是他很多的不確定性他跟真正的三讀通過的一個預算是不一樣的所以本身執行將來有他的後遺症所以公務人員在這方面執行 他有很大的一個不確定性對公務人員來講 將來如果被刪除就是違反規定"},{"start":658.737,"end":687.94,"text":"那怎麼辦如果他認為說這筆預算這個是屬於這個原來的計畫那立法院說在黑黨說原來的計畫我還可以繼續用啊那結果用的情況之下萬一省的預算啃掉了這個原本的這個預算沒有這麼多那公務員要不要負什麼責任啊他維穩規定也是這些要收回啦所以這些要收回對公務人員他的一個壓力非常的大是啊那這個就是說用完了"},{"start":688.972,"end":713.78,"text":"現在就是說預算原來的計畫聽起來好像可以用但是如果聽這個主席這樣講用起來心裡也是驚驚你也不知道說到底這筆預算是不是不確定性太高不確定說這筆預算是不是能夠按照原來的這個預算數能夠通過如果能夠按照原來預算數通過用起來當然是心安但是這不是三讀的這是按照"},{"start":715.041,"end":740.624,"text":"預算法的這個規定等於開了一個後門讓大家可以用所以這種不確定性其實對公務員來講是造成很大的壓力啦但是就計畫超過的部分就沒有辦法也不行啊快1800公里都沒有辦法到謝謝我想主席長你再找個時間跟昆城委員去溝通一下因為這個其實也講不清楚這個齁其實要跟自來黨溝通啦其實也不用跟我們溝通啦謝謝謝謝主席謝謝昆城委員接著請李彥雄"}]}},{"id":"167496","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167496","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6cf038e9b0ffbba919a7ba446ded26d6b9ba3647d0b3df3c815f464262b5c365e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"10:36:51 - 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麻煩請副部長"},{"start":13.123,"end":38.175,"text":"副部長好副部長剛剛我們聽到很多前面委員在關切的很多的議題可是我們好像還沒有聽到很確切的這些答案那大概都是覺得說我們有很重要的需求可是我們到底應該要怎麼樣因應或者從這幾場不管大小的這些戰爭也好或者其他的"},{"start":38.675,"end":57.077,"text":"地區的這些戰鬥的這些武裝的行動也好其實我們好像還沒有很明確的找到我們的方向因為俄烏戰爭跟梅伊伊戰爭已經讓全世界看到一個非常清楚的事情就是未來戰場的核心它不再是昂貴"},{"start":58.479,"end":74.385,"text":"而精密的大型武器而是廉價大量而且可消耗的系統裝備當然最典型的就是大家現在一直非常關注的無人機的部分那就這個部分我們也看到因為剛剛像媒體在報導裡面又委員提到我們像這一次美軍部署在中東地區卡達北部像我們國軍建置在樂山的這個普魯爪雷達"},{"start":87.451,"end":102.868,"text":"歷經兩次的無人機攻擊他就已經損毀了而且至少有一部是建制在約旦的薩德雷達跟美軍負責的中東地區作戰指揮中央司令部的這個部分其實他也都遭到嚴重的損傷"},{"start":104.79,"end":113.461,"text":"甚至連以色列引以為傲的這個鐵穹防空系統在伊朗運用高超音速導彈極速彈還有低價慢速自殺無人機混合搭配的攻擊之下其實都被戳破了神話這是我們這一次要探討的"},{"start":123.933,"end":147.131,"text":"我們現在在特別預算裡面也一直提出來剛剛副部長有提到有回答一個問題我認為可能是有矛盾的你說我們不會用高價的這些防空武器防空系統去打很便宜的這些比如說像無人機可是我們看到這一次包括美國包括以色列其實他們都是非常強的一個軍事的國家他們在這個部分"},{"start":151.434,"end":170.697,"text":"甚至美國兩天都打掉了一年的飛彈的產量800枚以上900枚所以像副部長說我們可以不要用高價的這些去應對尤其是解放軍他們的無人機目前全世界無人機最強的還有戰場環境還有干擾其實最強的就是解放軍所以副部長對於這樣子的一個說法我想可能還沒有"},{"start":180.859,"end":191.784,"text":"全盤的去回答像這樣的問題雖然美以聯軍他也是權威度無死角的打擊至少摧毀伊朗兩三千個這樣的軍事目標可是美以聯軍對伊朗持續到現在的戰爭剛剛你們也說現在戰爭還在持續其實已經超過了美國"},{"start":203.169,"end":209.233,"text":"川普總統他本來預先構想的他本來可以以為可以像委內瑞拉一樣可以讓他立即的投降可是結果沒有這個才是我們要拿來當成我們應該要借鏡或者我們應該要去檢討我們未來的因應的方向或者武器裝備或者我們的預算的運用上面我們特別提出今天專報的一個主要的目的"},{"start":230.066,"end":250.484,"text":"姑且我們現在可能後面還有很多的時間或者我們還會有持續的機會來討論我們未來的一個部署還有我們的預算的一個編列或者我們預算的運用以後的先不看我們今天先來看看剛剛也有委員關切到我們現在的彈藥量夠不夠"},{"start":253.175,"end":256.618,"text":"我們看到M30發射藥根據媒體的報導國軍原本要國產105公里砲彈因為關鍵的M30發射藥"},{"start":269.059,"end":272.401,"text":"主要因為205兵工廠遷建而停產只好向國外採購那得標的廠商到現在還拿不到南韓政府的輸出許可我們一直在說我們現在彈藥不足這個明明我們可以自己做的"},{"start":289.694,"end":316.61,"text":"這個是112年招標的案子112年2月現在是115年3月整整三年的時間我們卻延宕了這麼長的時間如果說我們連自己可以生產或者我們自己可以控管而且預算已經出去的都沒有辦法好好的做出來你怎麼讓國人相信或怎麼讓我們國會相信這一筆預算未來在公共預算九千多億甚至在"},{"start":317.691,"end":334.985,"text":"特別預算裡面 民進黨政府還編了 國防部還編了高達一兆兩千五百億的這樣的預算可以如時如期如止的可以拿到獲得這樣子的一個彈藥或者其他的武器裝備這個部分我們看到了三個問題"},{"start":336.974,"end":340.796,"text":"比如說第一個問題說因為205兵工廠簽件而停產第一個問題兵工廠簽件為什麼會斷產正常的邏輯當初在設計的時候它的保證是什麼新產線完成然後測試成功以後舊產線才會轉備員"},{"start":359.266,"end":362.767,"text":"可是我們兵工廠產線它不是一般的工廠它是一個戰備工廠現在卻變成舊線停了然後新線還沒好火藥又停產只能外購那外購現在又拿不到輸出許可一拖拖三年這是第一個問題兵工產線它不是剪綵工程它牽涉到國家的安全"},{"start":381.931,"end":409.893,"text":"剛剛我們連這樣子的控管的這個整個程序我們都沒有辦法做到第二個問題戰爭如果真的發生我們的產能在哪裡我們說要有足夠的彈藥怎麼樣才是足夠的我們也不像伊朗我們也不像烏克蘭還有其他的陸路的或者其他的方式可以運進去台灣是一個海島我們周邊最近的除了海洋以外就是我們所謂的解放軍"},{"start":410.814,"end":413.798,"text":"那我們到底要如何增加這樣的產能很多人很喜歡講國防自主可是很少人講到一件事或討論到一件事就是當我們戰爭的時候第一波打擊會打哪裡"},{"start":426.191,"end":444.045,"text":"它大概就是雷達機場指揮中心還有就是兵工廠兵工廠一旦被摧毀了彈藥補給也就斷了我們現在花了那麼多錢我們看不到我們現在所有兵工設施一直都是在地面現在新蓋的也是這樣第二個它都是集中設置還有"},{"start":445.546,"end":456.208,"text":"他根本沒有地下化這一次伊朗其實他可以欺敵很重要的是他的地下化的設施他騙過了美國還有騙過了以色列他們以為已經炸毀了結果從那個地方全部發射飛彈來攻擊這是非常嚴重的問題可是我們台灣根本都沒有就這些部分去做檢討只是要一直要經費一直要經費第三個問題採購程序到底在做什麼"},{"start":473.931,"end":498.228,"text":"我剛剛提到的我們在編預算的時候都是非常重要現在一拖三年如果他真的拿不到許可就像顧部長說的很簡單一直以來投標之前如果說他不能履約他就沒收他的押標金跟履約金重新招標三年以後如果我們再重新招標他還要多久我們才可以拿到這些火藥火藥以後我們還要自己製造"},{"start":501.448,"end":521.074,"text":"你們真的急嗎?這個部分有沒有說明?跟馬委員說明,第一個我們205場的火藥線是在107年拆線的那剛剛陳祿委員所指導的,我們拆線之前,都有調查三軍五年內的需求所以三軍都給我們了,我們軍備局也在108年都爐起的工資"},{"start":523.795,"end":553.215,"text":"那近幾年來因為三軍的一個實障化跟這個戰備的存儲量增加我們是目前是用110年跟美國進口的量在做那另外針對航法的部分呢我們之前他有給我們回覆是因為他們一個國際局勢跟他們的政府的問題啊我們需要去努力所以再給他展言我們的日期是五月份我們要的不是我們要的不是理由不是廠商的理由然後我們也不是"},{"start":553.995,"end":569.854,"text":"如果說我們現在用美方提供的這些原料我們現在可以生產製造我們這三年前我們現在要的是我們的控管今天如果你急著如果連慢一個禮拜排這樣子的一個條例審查大家都會急著跳腳"},{"start":570.695,"end":575.577,"text":"那一拖拖三年彈藥的製造這個不只三年因為現在已經三年了如果你再拿到火藥的原料然後再生產製造其實它要更長的時間可能要高達五年甚至更高的時間我們現在要說的是當你這些都做不到的時候怎麼樣去控管其他的我們沒有理由幫"},{"start":591.446,"end":598.15,"text":"而且甚至國防部現在是幫廠商去跟韓國透過外交部我們是要求我們國家的外交部去跟韓國協調對不對為什麼是我們幫我剛剛講得很清楚啊我們那時候因為這一家原來是要做什麼啤酒化這家廠商大廠商嗎你剛剛說他是因為韓華得標的嗎韓華是得標的"},{"start":618.785,"end":644.009,"text":"對 是韓華不願意 可是因為我們不是直接跟韓華吧你是透過其他的廠商跟韓華採購 是嗎對 跟委員報告齁 這個合約在5月到期 我們全部都會解約第二個 我們M30在4月15號 中科院給我們建置的已經申請 現在在跟高雄市政府申請火工的一個執照我們4月15號 M30就可以自製了 以上說明"},{"start":644.309,"end":647.151,"text":"局長我要的不是這種說明我剛剛說的是你們說我們彈藥缺如果連這種彈藥你說以後多久以後才可以開始尤其高雄市政府因為我們這個牽涉到我們剛剛之前也在關切的那些其他的彈藥的問題我今天特別提出M30這個部分是因為這個案子已經拖三年我們在這個部分沒有辦法及時他當時拿不到112年"},{"start":671.706,"end":673.071,"text":"2月得標113年就應該要拿到輸出許可對不對那時候為什麼沒有解約"},{"start":678.717,"end":698.883,"text":"那時候是韓華直接說明說他們是因為政府的問題希望能展延那這個案子我們也經過一個國防採購司召集我們我們就給他一個韓華政府就是跟他們政府的協商所以才允許他那這個合約的期限已經到了我們給他的時間就是在下個五月份五月份拿不出來我們就一約我們來解約然後就按我們的政府採購法來合約來執行"},{"start":704.085,"end":709.426,"text":"所以照理說我們沒有按照原始合約113年他沒有拿到輸出許可的時候不管什麼理由因為他得標他就是他可以提供而且照媒體的報導其實我們還有其他的國家還有其他的廠商是可以拿到相關的這些原物料的可是我們並沒有這樣做你一拖又拖了兩年然後到今年的五月才要幫他解約這個"},{"start":730.931,"end":734.993,"text":"有兩個問題存在第一就是我們每次在說我們非常擠的時候是騙人的因為你到現在已經超過三年好像也不擠你還讓他拖延了兩年第二在我們所有當我們說我們動藥很缺的時候我們到後來如果不足我們都有理由幫"},{"start":751.863,"end":754.605,"text":"很多的就幫很多的廠商去幫他們講話甚至幫他們現在幫他們解套所以就這個部分我今天為什麼會特別提這個案子出來講是因為當你需要很多高價單要剛剛在說整合的時候今天我們沒有時間繼續做探討我們光是我們美製跟國造"},{"start":775.023,"end":795.815,"text":"一個現在已經在用的這樣的一個武器裝備魚叉飛彈跟雄風飛彈我們都沒有辦法整合你還有很多的雷達或者其他的系統要整合你們說的非常簡單所以就這個部分我以後還有時間做探討那我們也希望可以有做一個最後的一個說明副部長就這個案子會怎麼處理"},{"start":801.004,"end":823.602,"text":"後續我們會依照剛剛軍備局長所講的就是說假設合約到期如果沒辦法執行的話我們要按照契約來做他合約早就到期了我們順便想要知道輸出許可在5月份沒有輸出許可這是你們後來給他延期的我們現在講的是原始的你採購標準的時候那時候113年他就應該要提供至少如果你給180天的緩衝期你至少在113年初其實也應該要提供了"},{"start":830.968,"end":846.978,"text":"所以就這個部分不要去斟酌那幾天了啦你已經拖了三年就這個部分我們不會再給他展援就是依照採購室給我們你有一次展援其實已經很不合理了因為你還有其他的來源當我們"},{"start":849.881,"end":859.812,"text":"什麼樣的利益你已經損害到我們的戰力啊你已經有一些空隙產生了然後還有一個時間差這個都已經對我們產生很大的影響如果它不是那麼必要你當初為什麼那麼早招標如果你當初這麼早招標急著要那樣的預算你就應該要如期如始如止"},{"start":871.724,"end":873.546,"text":"把它完成我們已經講過很多延宕的案子如果這些都沒有辦法好好的控管我們很難相信你們再更困難或者要更多的高價或者更多的比較"},{"start":887.282,"end":905.12,"text":"可能先進的這樣的武器裝備可以做到更好我們會有所質疑這個部分我們還是希望儘速的去處理這樣的案子我們希望知道說像透過外交途徑去協助廠商解決這也是非常不恰當的"},{"start":906.081,"end":929.027,"text":"今天他如果沒有辦法自己取得就可以拿到標案然後他出事了才要我們去幫他解決這樣的問題這個都是對我們國防的這個很多的就是我們的制度上面會產生很大的傷害這個部分副部長還有局長就這些我們希望可以有效的一個解決的方案可不可以好 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我今天當我們的題目是從美伊戰爭裡面要學一些教訓事實上在過去這一年大概這兩三年不管是俄烏戰爭甚至於在其他的地方發生了大小軍事衝突其實有相當多值得台灣借鏡的比方說委內瑞拉啦比方說以色列跟周邊國家的衝突啦樣態不一樣那裡面有一個特徵就是"},{"start":42.759,"end":64.597,"text":"在現在戰場上我們因應的狀態跟我們從二戰、越戰、韓戰學到的經驗已經完全不一樣了如果這思維沒有改變坦白講軍事裝備在手上運用會變成是事倍功半我第一個先請教我剛才看到幾位同仁也問到了這個Shahid這一個見證者沙西德"},{"start":66.232,"end":84.401,"text":"非常便宜那一台大概不到一百萬台幣那他打中了當時全世界大概就四座鋪路爪雷達台灣有一座最早期只有兩座北美防空司令部再來就台灣那打中這個鋪路爪那第一個他為什麼會打到他"},{"start":85.615,"end":104.99,"text":"我不曉得我們國防部有沒有研究就是說這種高單價極具戰略價值的重要設施面對這種低廉的甚至他坦白講我們任何的飛彈防空要去打他都不划算的殺死了而且速度非常慢為什麼會打中尤其是在美軍的防禦體系下"},{"start":106.578,"end":132.931,"text":"你們有沒有研究原因這個部分因為它要連用廉價的這個武器要打中這個昂貴的因為這個部分看起來它是一個固定設施所以掀起的一個情報的蒐集跟定位是最重要的一件事情也是確定我們都知道這種固定設施第一級都會打會用飛彈打極音速飛彈來打現在是一個時速大概50公里的慢速的無人機那個聲音"},{"start":136.172,"end":149.531,"text":"是像那個摩托車把消音器拔掉的聲音喔很大喔它怎麼打中的我們空軍有沒有研究我們相關單位有沒有研究就是說它是怎麼打中的他山之石阿要學阿"},{"start":153.752,"end":176.844,"text":"這跟您報告 至於他怎麼打中這個部分 我們目前沒有太多的情質但是就我們自己本身的雷達陣地來講 樂山雷達陣地來講他是結合周邊的冰火力我今天為什麼要問第一題要問這一題人家在波斯灣的周邊的冰火力比我們還密集"},{"start":178.364,"end":193.677,"text":"因為這個資訊不夠清楚所以說我們不清楚但是他們的愛國者防空營不夠還把日本跟韓國的調過去了我不知道這樣講對不對沙西德非常廉價結果俄羅斯拿去在烏克蘭戰場用還造成了"},{"start":195.478,"end":220.53,"text":"他不準但他打中了很多電啊發電廠一些設施這一次在伊朗戰爭裡面後來發現我看了一些軍事專家的研究第一個沙西德他的速度慢慢到我們在正常的雷達系統會把他過濾掉這是否為真是這個部分就是要按照情資來做一個設定因為我們一般設定"},{"start":222.281,"end":239.447,"text":"那個波段不管遠程的雷達它的波段就長嘛短程的雷達波段就比較密集嘛然後呢為了太多的雜訊我要把它過濾掉所以以前無人機有時候會被過濾掉因為小後來發現速度也是一個因素在一定速度以下"},{"start":240.567,"end":261.723,"text":"雷達的電腦會自動把它過濾認為這是雜波是不是有這個情形我們會根據目標的速度它的大小我們都會做不同的設定所以這麻煩啦因為它速度慢本來是缺點直升機用機槍就打得了但是它現在因為速度慢我們先進的雷達有時候就把它濾掉了"},{"start":262.583,"end":285.432,"text":"我們除了這個雷達以外我們在陣地裡面都有加裝的這個GPS干擾器所以說它越慢其實對它的影響程度會越大它設定它是program它設定的所以第一個原因是因為它速度這個慢速所以便宜它引擎很爛嘛50匹馬力而已因為慢速因為爛反而可以躲過我們先進雷達這是一個第二個"},{"start":286.232,"end":314.125,"text":"也是因為爛啊俄羅斯用的沙西德有塑膠的有複合材料的有木頭的耶所以對雷達波來講它的穿透性變成比較好不會打回來所以這第二個原因那中國其實有學到一大堆這些低廉低價的無人機這種油彈炸藥比我們的其他的我們還要去做反輻射的其實更貴這種油彈炸藥量大又便宜那第三個它是設定好它可以飛很遠"},{"start":315.356,"end":328.917,"text":"所以他在那邊他program之後就事後不理了關你打到什麼就打就好去也不用回來所以這種形態的攻擊我現在只問我們國防部我們現在有沒有能力看得見就是目獲第二個有沒有能力處理它"},{"start":331.822,"end":346.032,"text":"報委員 情報次長這邊再跟委員報告因為目前我們伊朗的這個戰事還正在進行當中那有關於剛剛委員所提到的那些在系統上面可能會"},{"start":347.567,"end":370.179,"text":"造成的這些效應還有一些細部的工程上面的這些我想跟那天美國國防部他在記者會的時候曾經有提建議過我們大家在討論的時候因為這些目前戰爭正在進行當中可能我們也不太適合在這邊跟委員把我們這邊所掌握到的內容我不問你們有沒有從美方那邊獲得一些"},{"start":371.53,"end":396.212,"text":"意見或者資訊的交流這個絕對有這個我們都是對這一個事件因為我們是大概全世界四座六座使用這個但我現在不是針對普魯爪雷達有很多高單價比方說沙西的這種慢速又便宜他很容易發動飽和攻擊的針對民用的關鍵基礎設施重要的軍事設施如果我們雷達他看見反而好難啊"},{"start":397.333,"end":420.927,"text":"他用機槍就可以打下來 看見反而好藍他被綠掉了 反而看不見這是一個問題 我要提醒我們國防部這一種形態就是新的戰場態勢我們以前都研究越先進的 逆中的 高速的這種量工的AutoBike你看不到他反而麻煩那他量很大 他就設定他飛2000公里 他會東繞西繞慢慢飛過來所以我進到下一個"},{"start":422.503,"end":449.999,"text":"我看到你們的這次檢討報告說要建構台灣之盾來因應類似伊朗這樣的情形那我們台灣之盾其實就三個概念第一個是層層攔截70公里100公里40公里一直到最近空的防禦層層攔截第二個其實很重要是跨系統整合我們目前為止國造的天宮系列跟美歸的愛國者其實互相是"},{"start":450.953,"end":475.653,"text":"要經過JOCC對話 他互相是不能講話的你看到的我看不到 然後你要打的我不知道所以會造成重複打擊也好 或者反應時間會變慢所以跨系統整合 這也是大家要談這個IBCS的原因第三個 其實還有一個重點 彈藥的存量你的彈藥存量 你的系統再好 彈打完了"},{"start":476.516,"end":495.351,"text":"你就要減量只針對高價值保護其他就讓他過吧會變這個情形所以我就這三點請教目前台灣之盾的核心的預算當然是在我們國防特別預算的特別條例裡面在這裡面有關層層攔截你們認為我們台灣最需要補強的是哪一層"},{"start":496.578,"end":521.973,"text":"目前最缺的是哪一層現在整個中層跟高層的這個防禦的部分目前來看能夠因應有關共軍的一個防空攻擊跟威脅看起來是沒有問題中高層能力沒有問題 彈量夠不夠彈量目前我們後續會持續的在增強跟控制當中能力夠我就要問彈量嘛好那再來"},{"start":522.873,"end":548.71,"text":"那第二部分就是目前來看對於有關第一層應該是講說中第一層的防禦尤其是它的原火營的威脅來說是我們後續會放在整個藍安捷上面一個研討的一個重點原火是最頭痛的它貼地表加上海洋地球曲率海洋的閘波速度又快然後它對面有三個鋁"},{"start":550.069,"end":562.543,"text":"所以原火對台灣來講其實是破壞性威脅性很大所以目前在台灣之盾裡面針對中共原火那幾個部署在我們海峽當面的你們在台灣之盾裡面設計的是什麼東西要來應處這一塊"},{"start":564.963,"end":588.051,"text":"目前我們規劃就是剛剛在報告當中就是一個希望執行能夠遠程火箭彈攔截低成本的防空武器那這個研討因為這個系統還在研發當中所以我講也不適合在研發的東西有的我聽20年都還在研發目前已經有初步的一個多久可以看到東西你們是研發還是外購"},{"start":589.504,"end":606.185,"text":"還是合作我們有自行研發也有評估國外相關的廠商同步來進行當中是不是有現有的裝備可以符合我們的需求但是跟我們台灣合作生產是不是這個模式否則你們從零到開始研發好賣乎啊"},{"start":607.046,"end":633.622,"text":"其實現在已經有初步的研究的成果就是天空試行的部分已經有一些天空試行是中高空的耶 我現在講原火耶它現在因為試行的部分它同時也可以因應相關原火低成本的那個李思祥 李院長出來了就是說針對原火你們在台灣製鈍裡面到底設計在層層的哪一層裡面針對原火我們有專門的一型低成本彈藥來執行攔截有方案了嗎有實測過了嗎"},{"start":635.287,"end":650.529,"text":"明年明年才實測嘛這是我們自己研發的還是台美合作的自己研發的技術都是我們自己的那接下來就討論到蛋的量的問題這也就是我們在特別預算特別條例裡面有一塊"},{"start":651.872,"end":677.889,"text":"當然我們在野黨的朋友有把他拿掉就在地生產這一塊這裡面不只是無人機反無人機其實很多彈藥我們的戰備需求的眾生要在台灣合作生產這一塊其實很重要你在好的系統愛國者打完了烏克蘭現在剩一堆載台啊沒有彈啊你沒有用啊你知道讓他過去嘛所以我的意思說我們的彈藥量就你們目前的評估很簡單一個回答現況喔夠還是不夠"},{"start":683.378,"end":702.008,"text":"就台灣之盾這個專案來講我們目前的彈的量夠還是不夠就剛剛的報告我們要建構低中高三層那剛剛盧委員所說我們對於遠程火箭的防禦能量是現在積極要去籌貨因為就我們在做敵情上的所以彈量目前現況是不夠的是所以需要積極的去籌貨現況是不夠的你們計畫是用採購還是在台生產"},{"start":705.87,"end":730.286,"text":"當然現在是希望能夠多元途徑去獲得我接受有些外購有的在台生產有互相互為備援這我接受但我們台灣生產這塊過去其實蠻缺的啦日本都已經技術合作生產愛國者飛彈了嘛就是彈藥有很多種像現在155、155它是可以打無人機的還打蠻準的但平時不能用"},{"start":731.187,"end":750.493,"text":"硬砂在平時你打出去落點在哪裡很麻煩我們平時大概用軟砂那軟硬砂之間有個灰色地帶是雷射大概是要組成這樣的網絡所以我剛才問的問題是現況的彈你們剛才評估是不夠那後續這些彈要縱深的取得是在台生產要不要增加這一塊"},{"start":753.528,"end":767.973,"text":"我是侯志志市長向委員報告針對於我們國內沒有產能或是我們國內產能不足的部分我們是運用特別預算採軍購跟商購並行的方式那另外在明年這個特別預算過以後我們針對於這個軍備局"},{"start":769.694,"end":786.547,"text":"特別有開14條的生產線包含各式武器彈藥以及我的火炸藥的部分未來我們也希望在我們國內產能的部分能以最大量來生產包含這一次韓國政府輸出許可卡住其實我們有能力的話還是要自己做所以我還是希望國防跟國家安全其實沒有什麼黨派的問題"},{"start":788.755,"end":818.215,"text":"我們對美採購當然這個重要因為那是先進裝備但是建立台灣的軍需的供應鏈不管是無人機反無人機彈藥這一些在台台美合作透過八年期的特別預算給予穩定的訂單誘發台灣強大的製造業轉投入這一塊以及我們自己軍工兵工廠能夠提升其實這一塊是整個1.25兆裡面雖然佔比大概三千多億但是其實蠻重要的我們真的希望"},{"start":819.556,"end":841.949,"text":"這個東西真的我再講一次沒有黨派的問題這桌子有四張腳你缺了一隻腳桌子就是歪掉了所以我們特別預算有關國內供應鏈這一塊其實還是要強化那因為我不想站太長時間我兩個題目交給你們事後回答我我在去年提到有關國防大學應該偵涉偵涉我不剝奪現在的偵涉文職副校長"},{"start":843.67,"end":871.396,"text":"讓學術跟學術倫理這一塊能夠有一個來自於學術界的文職副校長因為畢竟在國防大學培養是人才那當時你們回答是三個月內要回答我到目前已經超過時間還沒有答案你們現在就不用回答再來就是有關這一個二月底三月上旬共機的靜默期你們目前有沒有什麼評估這個簡單一句回答就好你們對於共機有一段時間特別是"},{"start":872.677,"end":889.522,"text":"美國對伊朗動武的時候共機有一段時間就不見了那最近又有出現的時候當然比較遺憾啦國內有特定媒體是歡欣鼓舞啦那是對台灣的威脅那個靜默期到底是一個對你們來講是一個正向的訊號還是危險的負向訊號"},{"start":891.932,"end":918.673,"text":"包委員您剛剛所提的這個13天的時間我們持續在觀察當然這個時間也發生了很多國際事件包含了剛剛您所提到國際事件中國內部也有事件是的那也在兩會期間那所以在這個時間點我們只能跟委員報告我們會持續在密註後續的一些那秦釋士這邊把他這13天的靜默期視為正向指標負向指標還是無法判定"},{"start":919.494,"end":937.321,"text":"我還是建議跟您報告我們是不是可以把這個指標性的正向或負向保留到後面我們有私下的機會再跟您做報告基於國家利益我尊重保密但是這個指標其實眾說紛紜在適當的時候讓國人知道其實是必要的好不好好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167502","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167502","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6b66b93250a5851879a7ba446ded26d6bbfd7ce027fbc82e0b066f83588e7a26e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"11:07:47 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主席有請副部長請副部長林委員好"},{"start":12.259,"end":23.868,"text":"副部長我會從這個時事先開始問起當然我們今天關心的是有關於從伊朗戰爭來做借鏡但是其實在這個美伊衝突發生的這一陣子也有蠻多人關心到是中國怎麼突然收手了呢共軍有13天沒有擾台但是如果根據統計共機是減少了但是軍艦部署其實是持續的"},{"start":41.042,"end":52.068,"text":"顯然壓力沒有真正的下降只是在過去大家比較關注的防空的這個部分它變少了2025年共軍擾台是3764架次年增23%那麼共艦進入應變區是2640艘次"},{"start":61.914,"end":78.256,"text":"那年增是百分之七喔那麼國防部有沒有針對這樣的狀況到底是一種所謂戰術的變換還是因為剛好我們也在討論國防特別預算的部分全球都在關注的同時喔這算不算是一種障眼法國防部怎麼看"},{"start":81.594,"end":109.753,"text":"委員好 我是秦次市市長剛剛委員所提醒的這點其實都是我們在觀察的一個重點因為在這段時間的確在國際上也有很多重要的事情發生包括包括中國兩會的這個開他們的會議那另外就是伊朗的這個戰事那我想這些都是我們在長期需要觀察的那至於您剛剛提醒到13天共機沒有動態"},{"start":111.835,"end":122.13,"text":"前兩天他就開始有動態了我想您也注意到我想這個都需要我們一段時間來密切的觀察那如果有進一步具體的東西我們私下再跟委員做報告"},{"start":122.793,"end":126.317,"text":"對於這樣的變換當然我認為永遠是來者不善啦如果真的他對台灣要表示善意的話這個對著台灣的這些飛彈啊相關的部署早就應該撤掉了我覺得他可能是換了另外一種套路我想這兩天在社群媒體上很多人都轉po給我們民進黨的立法委員"},{"start":145.157,"end":161.541,"text":"我本人當然也收到了那就是呢現在是不是連國際都在示警除了明著來暗著的所謂灰色侵擾更是逐步形成當中這些民兵船不是要捕魚而是數千艘的中國漁船呈現在台灣周邊的一個異常的部署"},{"start":165.302,"end":191.79,"text":"那麼這是不是一種明暗之間包括連灰色作戰一起加入的另外一種狀態那這個部分到底我們首先這個訊息正確嗎那麼這樣的一個訊息他所釋放的包括他後面的意涵以及我們如何來應對當然這種民兵確實國防部似乎也只能看著好像是變成跟海委會比較相關但是這樣的灰色作戰的"},{"start":193.55,"end":200.967,"text":"增加的狀況底下甚至已經成了一堵海上來包圍台灣的時候那麼國防部跟相關單位又怎麼來看"},{"start":202.387,"end":223.151,"text":"第一個部分是剛剛委員所講的上述的報導這個海域裡面活動的船隻它具備了數量龐大高度的同步性而且呈現類似海上封鎖線陣列的一個方式所以它具有軍事意涵上的海上編隊行動看起來它已經不是一個單純的一個這個魚撈的一個作業"},{"start":226.192,"end":248.71,"text":"那我們後續研判中共也有可能運用引民帶軍的這個模式強化特定海域的一個控制能力那第三點跟委員報告就是說當然在國防部的部分我們都持續的運用勤奸政的手段來掌握周邊海上的動態並且也會運用多元的管道跟周邊的有門國家共同來關注這個區域情勢裡面的一個發展"},{"start":249.854,"end":258.278,"text":"其實這些提醒我也希望透過質詢以及你們的回應的時候能夠讓更多的民眾了解因為在野黨不斷的要去強調是說這些軍購的過程都是不透明的不公開的民眾不知道的那麼其實本席從媒體出來"},{"start":266.621,"end":276.744,"text":"我也認為其實適度的透過全民的溝通是非常重要的首先我就要肯定你們日前透過中央通訊社把這個所謂軍購的流程公開讓民眾知道因為很多的民眾事實上在過去他們可能是在最後一刻我們確定得到了美國或是哪一個國家的武器之後"},{"start":290.268,"end":296.994,"text":"甚至於這些武器來了他們才會知道但是他們不能清楚的是其實在前期從計畫再到建案的文件然後我們前面的評估需求可能就會高達一到兩年然後才能夠去"},{"start":308.303,"end":322.616,"text":"提出發架書的邀請跟要求然後還要給AIT然後透過美國的防安合作局然後才有機會一步一步的跨部會審查進入國務院然後才給來所謂的發架書那"},{"start":324.938,"end":341.498,"text":"我本席其實覺得非常開心的是至少朝野有共識3月15號要到期也就是昨天要到期這個發架書有三張有三個部分能夠在這個之前同意國防部授權先去處理但是很多民眾甚至於不懂什麼叫做發架書"},{"start":342.919,"end":361.304,"text":"甚至於發架書它的用意是什麼那麼至少我覺得要跟全民來做溝通讓民眾知道其實在這樣的過程當中不是不透明而是很多的部分在前期做的所謂文書工作或是討論的工作其實是要花一些相對的時間而且人家能夠賣我們什麼或者是在他們的產線上面包括後續還要跟"},{"start":370.646,"end":375.287,"text":"相關的廠商做締約其實都有很長的一段時間我要強調的是我們談到的不論是剛剛我們今天題目所定的國際局勢的變化美伊之間的戰爭伊朗之間的戰爭又或者是現在中國對我們的從層封鎖這些都是非常重要但是要購得這些軍購都是要時間的"},{"start":394.992,"end":415.925,"text":"但是就如同我做這張圖一樣如果現在火就在前面燒但是我們這些水源是被一層一層的鎖鎖住的話那真的是不只是原水救不了進火是連水都沒有所以我想要問的就是目前從去年11月這個案子提出來到現在喔除了有3月15號的這個有"},{"start":418.047,"end":440.466,"text":"幾個重要的採購的發價書我們現在有機會可以先鬆綁之外後續還有多少其實是有可能因為卡在發價書或者是更多的期程上面如果不及早審這個預算不審8年1.25兆就會被卡關的部分在今天質詢台上可以說的是不是也可以讓我們知道一下我請站位上做說"},{"start":444.45,"end":449.18,"text":"報告委員,我們的確還有幾個案子目前還在美方這邊做審查"},{"start":450.916,"end":475.124,"text":"那要跟委員報告的是大運雖然同意我們去簽署發價書但是後面最重要的還是預算要通過因為我們在第一個年度裡面基本上就要支付3%到5%的生效款是個案的狀況而定那後續的話如果說因為"},{"start":476.089,"end":503.788,"text":"大約並不是一年365天都在開會的我們比較擔心的是如果這個時間點它剛好就落在會期跟會期之間因為它的效期通常大概就是就從前面看到大概是30到45天的時間很可能會造成這個合約沒有辦法做下去那另外跟委員補充報告發價書它本身並不是一個合約"},{"start":505.458,"end":525.376,"text":"Lady of acceptance是我們同意美方依據他開出來的條件去幫我們預約所以重要的還是在後面預約的那個過程他會給我們一個時間如果說就像海馬仕一樣他這一次完全不給言的原因是因為他要去做同意預約一旦我們錯過這個時間點"},{"start":527.378,"end":543.015,"text":"那我們就是另外再開案子預約所以這個部分我們還是欲請大院能夠給予國防部這邊支持能夠盡早的針對條例還有預算的部分能夠做審查那我們後面能夠順利來執行"},{"start":544.116,"end":557.064,"text":"好 所以你的言下之意就是在這樣的一個簽署的發價書的過程當中他只是我們同意了因為接下來還要跟一些廠商來做意願而這個才是真正最後包括價格包括數量包括期程 對嗎對所以"},{"start":561.547,"end":584.183,"text":"發價書的意思是其他所有想要購買這些武器的國家先透過國家給予了前期的這種所謂類似下訂單但是不是真正的只是需求提出來好那這個部分其實時間點上到底有多急迫或者是還剩下多少時間就像你所說的只剩下30天到40天嗎還是多少時間"},{"start":587.728,"end":605.711,"text":"包含預約的部分他會按照個案的狀況而有不同那海馬仕當然會比較急一點的原因是美方已經告訴我們他會在上半年也就是七月之前他會配合其他的幾個案子來進行預約那其他的部分"},{"start":607.512,"end":621.196,"text":"標槍跟托式飛彈的部分因為我們採購的數量並不是很多我們還是會配合美國陸軍海軍陸戰隊跟其他採購國家會在他的批量裡面去做採購至於確切的這個時間我們會繼續去追蹤"},{"start":624.687,"end":645.807,"text":"好 謝謝你給我這個明確的時間點那麼下個禮拜我們的召委這個陳冠廷委員會來排相關的這樣的一個預算的審查我們也希望到時候能夠趕得上這個時間點因為這個保護國家沒有在分顏色沒有在分政黨的這是所有在這個島上在這個國家裡面所有的人通通必須要面對的安全問題好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167495","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167495","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f64d7d9d5219edcaf79845512775efda379ba3647d0b3df3c8642409915d7b18685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"顏寬恒","委員發言時間":"10:41:04 - 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引發全球能源危機昨天週日晚間 國際油價已經噴漲至每桶106美元漲幅高達45%就算美國及其他盟友 釋放史上最大規模的戰略儲備原油"},{"start":257.244,"end":284.001,"text":"遠遠不足以解決由戰爭所引發的原油供應中斷的問題所以不只是油價那我們台灣進口的液化天然氣有四分之一來自卡達但台灣天然氣儲存量只有11天這大家都知道那如果情勢惡化供應出現干擾那能源價格跟供應風險都同時升高那這種情況之下無論是油價還是天然氣進口物價上漲的壓力都會一直增加"},{"start":284.821,"end":309.316,"text":"那我想請教主席講目前對於戰事可能導致這個能源價格上漲的風險就像你剛剛提到說中野會虧多少那這個台隊會虧多少那除了這樣子的評估之外還有你剛剛提到說在那個GDP當時並沒有納入中東戰事的一個情況所以你這個也要重估嘛這是不是一定要重估那這個"},{"start":310.997,"end":327.288,"text":"現在國際營業每桶都超過100元現在100元以下是不太可能那短期也不會有看到它下降所以對於今年物價跟經濟成長的這樣子的一個跟當初你們初估的時候要做一個全新重新的整理要不要"},{"start":327.788,"end":338.239,"text":"要 所以我們在5月我們會重新初估那坦白說100美元就是說如果石油漲到100美元大概上漲70%那對經濟成長率的影響是3月9號的時候跳到119"},{"start":345.246,"end":363.537,"text":"是 所以差不多將近80%左右 那就會將近影響將近9%左右那那個對CPI的影響也將近1.7%多那所以這個部分兩個的一個影響如果說是到時候控制不住的部分那或者是說台電終有沒有辦法"},{"start":365.658,"end":393.689,"text":"針對這一個來做協助那我們是盡量希望台電中油把這吸收下來不要去影響到人民的一個物價那整個部分台電中油再由我們來協助解決對啦因為從能源價格啊這些電價上漲的壓力還有物價上漲還有市場的變化對這些東西我想中東戰士會情況會怎麼樣沒有人可以預估沒有人預估是那我想這個部分"},{"start":394.469,"end":411.409,"text":"那會隨時修正所帶來的影響非常的大包括我們天然氣的部分我們都是依靠進口嘛是那如果斷氣了呢怎麼辦那經濟部長他說如果暫時拖到4月他不排除要全面開啟煤炭就是我們的燃煤發電嘛"},{"start":412.43,"end":438.575,"text":"因為重啟他沒發現,這是他的最後手段嘛對不對,所以在進行物價跟通膨的預測的時候一定要把這些最重要這些依數全部納入因為現在已經跟當初預估的情況是完全不同那我想還有就是說如果電價真的漲上來那民眾這個消費者還有我想是沒有辦法預期也沒辦法接受啦"},{"start":440.636,"end":460.267,"text":"因為時間有限,主要就是說這個戰爭已經實質影響人民的生活再加上所有能源價格的變化,包括我們的統裝瓦斯因為中油在三月份的時候有宣告不漲價,因為中油有政府的補助"},{"start":461.508,"end":479.45,"text":"但是台塑化的部分他已經搶先宣布調漲瓦斯的價格每公斤0.6元其實現在已經這些我們看到的這些夜市攤販還有這些店鋪吃不消就算中友宣布不漲"},{"start":480.351,"end":509.321,"text":"這也是臨時的這個短暫的嘛你不可能全年嘛或者說連續嘛如果能這麼做也好但是問題是說做不到那這些供給不足這樣子的一個情況然後這一波的漲勢沒有看到它的一個什麼時候會好轉的方向所以我想要請教主計長政府所謂的價格監控機制實質上能夠發揮到什麼樣的效果當我們民生的能源成本"},{"start":510.682,"end":531.496,"text":"因為國際形勢上漲的時候除了監控之外除了補貼之外我們有什麼措施可以避免物價上漲持續被推高簡單回答就好了我們是經濟部他本身就像剛剛講的他會把他一個沒有燃煤的一個部分他會重新開放那第二個他也會補助中油和台電"},{"start":532.256,"end":541.884,"text":"那這些是去減少說漲幅然後整個那個第三個呢他本身在供貨的部分他也會盡量去協調說讓他能夠順利所以這方面是涉及到各方面各面所以這個部分我們會緊急來盯緊各項的一個變化來做整個一個調整"},{"start":553.451,"end":557.357,"text":"就是要提前做好各項經濟風險的評估跟準備那能夠盡量維持國內的經濟穩定的發展好不好好 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敬請各位委員指教第一個是預算業務的部分我們根據"},{"start":1777.455,"end":1789.468,"text":"籌編116年度中央政府總預算案和附屬單位預算和中計表為強化施政計畫預算編列的連結根據落實中程計畫預算制度各主管機關116年到119年度中程計畫概算額度將以115年度為基礎"},{"start":1794.554,"end":1813.736,"text":"進行滾動推估並依預算法規定在116年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案終據表在今年115年8月底送請貴院來審議那第二個編制完成115年中央總預算案及附屬單位預算案的部分"},{"start":1814.657,"end":1827.37,"text":"我們在去年114年8月29已經送貴院來審議會順利推動福國利民的一個政策提升國家對災害的應變能力期盼大院能夠儘速完成審議第二個會計決算業務"},{"start":1831.173,"end":1852.941,"text":"部分辦理114年中央總決算附屬單位決算和中繼表和特別決算的一個編審作業預計在本年4月底提前提經行政院院會通過後函送監察院二深化政府內部控制的一個機制我們協助機關強化內部控制監督各項作業工作持續輔導各機關"},{"start":1855.222,"end":1884.361,"text":"學校來簽署內部控制的一個聲明書三統計調查業務一辦理國民所得統計那今年的一個第四季的經濟成長率是12.65那因為人工智能高效能還有等輸出大幅成長還有一個政府的一個固定投資包括機械設備和智慧財產投資增加那民間消費也實質成長3.45那所以他並繼前三季"},{"start":1886.363,"end":1899.813,"text":"114年度的經濟成長率為8.68百分比展望今年因為一月我和美國的一個達成貿易有力的協定對美出口半導體和延伸投資免稅配合和"},{"start":1902.755,"end":1915.233,"text":"最優惠的一個稅率是我國AI主要的一個相關蘇美產品關稅不確定因素來消除所以主要雲端服務業擴大AI相關的資本支出還有包括"},{"start":1917.294,"end":1941.539,"text":"硬體需求持續強硬所以預測本年經濟成長率預計為7.71請詳看副表1第二個是辦理物價統計去年消費者物價指數是上漲1.66那其中外食會房租會各漲3.39那主要是因為購買一次的一個上漲2.30明顯高於整體CPE"},{"start":1944.62,"end":1958.636,"text":"民眾對物價上漲感受比較深刻是因為每月至少購買一次的部分他明顯比較比較賬戶沒有那麼高一至二月"},{"start":1959.497,"end":1976.083,"text":"跟去年同期漲1.23主要是因為外食會單類和肉類價格上漲核心物價指數CPI是1.93生產者物價指數是比去年1.79所以本年一至二月的PPI比去年下跌1.33"},{"start":1977.563,"end":1995.436,"text":"那主要的一個相關的表請看副表二那我們第三個是辦理社會保障保險支出的一個統計那我們去年底我們編佈社會保障支出統計首次發佈社會保障支出總體有效涵蓋率那去年社會保障支出2兆6953億佔GDP10.5%"},{"start":1999.899,"end":2023.012,"text":"平均每一個人11.5 比去年618億 增加618億然後主要是因為退休幾戶清理人數增加還有長照服務能量來提升我國社會保障利潤概率由105年的91.5增到現在目前的94.8那主要是因為政府持續推動少子女化對策還有擴大花旺育兒津貼"},{"start":2025.234,"end":2043.035,"text":"所以他領取現金給戶的一個人員增加相關的表報請看戶表3和戶表4那辦理人力供需各項一個抽樣調查那我們本總署按月辦理人力資源調查還有收工員工薪資調查"},{"start":2044.296,"end":2072.359,"text":"和新勞動力市場的一個供需調查員工勞動報酬薪資調整等資訊應用相關公務的一個大數據還有護海澳工程人員統計的一個薪資中位數統計充實就業和薪資統計的一個內涵那115年1月份的一個失業率是3.29那四周的失業率是3.31那失業的一個情勢穩定那去年的一個每個月的"},{"start":2073.2,"end":2081.207,"text":"月經常薪資平均是47884比去年增加3.09%那前年總薪資是76632增加3.91那T屬物價因素之後平均薪資是成長1.4%那經常性中位數是38406元實質經常性薪資成長1.35%"},{"start":2101.701,"end":2127.386,"text":"那五是辦理基本國事調查那我們114年在四月間我們會辦理農林榆木普查那我們也提供網路填報的方式供民眾來一個做選擇那也同時舉辦115年工業和服務業的一個前置準備的一個工作那四在主機資訊方面我們中央辦理中央和地方相關預算會計資訊系統的一個業務"},{"start":2130.166,"end":2151.118,"text":"然後在協助各機關在114年度完成總決算附屬單位決算的一個編制並進行116年度總預算附屬單位預算的一個籌編工作那辦理統計普查和資料倉儲開放的作業我們已經完成普抽查母體地址整編"},{"start":2152.239,"end":2157.424,"text":"等一個系統的功能徵修也協助受查探索完成114年農林榆木葉試驗性調查的一個作業那我們會持續進進製藥倉儲的一個系統那辦理確保機敏製藥的一個安全"},{"start":2168.434,"end":2184.617,"text":"那本處已完成預算決算統計等1945項開放資料的一個釋出那並在中央政府總預算查詢服務平台公開中央政府各機關115年總預算案的一個資料所以5大院115"},{"start":2186.465,"end":2213.734,"text":"第一十一屆第四會第二次貴委員會亦主辦辦理的四項委員就本總處所提的一個質詢在會後答覆則有五項均以答覆委員在案以上為本總處近期的一個工作推展清醒今後將持續推進經濟主機業務以協助推動各項政務敬請各位委員女士先生鼎力支持祝福大家健康快樂萬事如意謝謝"},{"start":2216.986,"end":2217.767,"text":"謝謝陳主席長現在請省紀部陳省紀長進行業務報告"},{"start":2229.025,"end":2252.68,"text":"主席 各位委員 女士 先生今天應邀列席貴委員會報告審計部的業務概況 祝感榮幸本部依法掌理政府及其所屬機關財務的審計多年來承蒙大院委員的支持與鼓勵各項審計工作均能按照計畫進行藉此競表由衷的感謝114年度依法審核中央及地方7969個機關單位"},{"start":2255.962,"end":2282.688,"text":"收支金額A28兆元之執行之將審計A5的辦理概況檢要報告之下依114年度重要A5辦理情形完成總結算及特別結算的審核暨半年結算報告的查核113年中央政府總結算暨附屬單位結算綜計表中央政府全章基礎建設第四期的特別結算本部以依憲法規定完成審核"},{"start":2284.048,"end":2293.113,"text":"各縣市的政府年度總結算一經各地方審計處處在法定期限內完成審核提出重要審核意見2456項"},{"start":2297.585,"end":2317.712,"text":"114年度的中央政府半年結算報告完成本部已完成查核並於114年9月26日提出半年結算查核報告已大宴竹橋市政府半年結算已經本部各地方審計處在法定期限內完成審核提出重要審核意見63項"},{"start":2319.692,"end":2324.515,"text":"審計的綜合績效114年度構想審計業務執行結果審核113年度的結算經依法修正稅日收入結算增累16億餘顏減累16億餘顏"},{"start":2337.801,"end":2358.194,"text":"依法修正稅出租出決算 增列40號議員 減列54億議員考核各機關之績效 報告兼裁案者66案提出重要建議改善意見341項任何有可提升效能增進公共利益提出建議意見1013項"},{"start":2361.485,"end":2378.263,"text":"提出預警系意見兩百三十二項稽查財務上的違私及報請監察案處理者三案與送書法機關偵辦者五案通知各機關查明處分者一百一十七案三更系強化審計功能與落實創新核心價值"},{"start":2379.964,"end":2391.493,"text":"破壞未來六年以智慧損棄、永續損棄、韌性損棄及共助善助等四大面向深化、監督、洞察、前瞻三大政府的損棄功能戰略發展除夕以創新思維經濟損棄業務"},{"start":2397.088,"end":2410.912,"text":"四更新推展公民參與審計近三年已完成專家諮詢535次1795則的重要審計諮詢的發佈更新優化審核報告編報內容及諮詢諮詢深化重要施政議題查核專章會編行政機關優良實務案例推廣擴散情形並優化總結算的審核報告諮詢揭露"},{"start":2424.416,"end":2447.427,"text":"導入多元資訊科技的數位審計發展集體作為包括儲蓄擴充數位審計模組及工具應用大數據分析與AI輔助審計推動與公司部門集合單位的專業交流與分享並建立審計資料中心統整應用查核資料又加強審計的後職後職專業發展資本集體作為"},{"start":2453.649,"end":2459.173,"text":"精進審計專業培訓 鼓勵數位自主學習 擴展國際審計視野115年度審計工作重點 因應時事 社會時事的脈動 滾動調整專章主題內容加強特別預算執行情形的審計"},{"start":2478.871,"end":2484.213,"text":"3.擴展數位審計查核議題推動審計作為數位化的轉型4."},{"start":2484.213,"end":2489.034,"text":"藉機國際優良審計實務強化永續審計5."},{"start":2489.034,"end":2493.875,"text":"加強政府任性助理的查核擴展任性審計6."},{"start":2493.875,"end":2498.596,"text":"加強利害關係人的協力合作達成共住善住的願景7."},{"start":2498.596,"end":2500.777,"text":"加強辦理地方政府財政管理的審計"},{"start":2502.802,"end":2529.976,"text":"三、大宴第十一屆第四會期主辦重要事項的處理應事面答覆者十一項越韓報大宴財政與相關委員及相關委員以十六項列為審核參考審計工作的主要目的在於促進政府健全財務助勢協助國家良善治理本部當除夕加強推動各項審計業務以善盡審計主軸以上報告請起主席、各位委員、女士、先生、主教謝謝"},{"start":2533.206,"end":2557.433,"text":"謝謝陳審計長請回座現在開始詢答先做一下宣告每位出席委員發言時間8分鐘必要時的延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言時間5分鐘今日上午10時截止發言登記現在依登記順序請登記第一位林德福委員質詢"},{"start":2571.94,"end":2577.465,"text":"謝謝主席是不是請主記長跟沈記長首先我請主記長因為中東的戰火短期對於國內消費者物價指數影響你認為有多大"},{"start":2594.618,"end":2602.544,"text":"因為我們有一個物價穩定機制所以目前的一個石油都暫時還漲那但是它如果是它漲10%那對我們一個GDP的影響是0.1%那如果說全數漲價是0.12%"},{"start":2612.632,"end":2619.135,"text":"那對消費者物價指數來講是會影響0.24所以這個部分必須要看我們整個他整個如何而且目前因為如果說這個戰爭他很快就結束那將來的影響就不會那麼大所以整個部分我們一直都是在在嚴密的一個那要是沒有短期結束呢"},{"start":2633.26,"end":2650.174,"text":"是所以我們這個也相關的一個措施我們都目前都已經像經濟部啦像我們整個一個穩定物價小組啊整個都是參與在做這整個一個包括中油包括那個那個那個台電整個都參與在這裡面在參與整個一個這就整個來要如何因應來做一個"},{"start":2656.039,"end":2666.751,"text":"因為2026年伊朗的反制行動不僅針對以色列本土與美軍的基地更延伸至其他中東國家的人員基礎設施並將荷莫茲海峽的郵輪"},{"start":2670.695,"end":2690.948,"text":"作為攻擊打擊的目標與1991年波斯灣戰爭有相當大的差異啊 不同如果戰火持續到九月甚至於戰場擴大到其他國家對於國內物價波動又會造成哪些的影響那個主席長你做個說明好不好"},{"start":2691.428,"end":2720.323,"text":"是 這其實整個我們根據經濟部它三四月其實它的油價天然氣它都已經安排好那以後呢它也陸續一直在安排就事先去取得所以縱使是說有所延長對我們的影響也不會很大當然延長的部分我們這邊整個一個穩定物價小組就會有各項的一個措施來做一個因應所以這個部分我們一直在密切注意當中我希望說未雨綢繆"},{"start":2721.783,"end":2733.052,"text":"主計長因為主計總署公布今年的經濟成長率上看7.71%CPI消費物價指數115年預測是1.68%可是主計長相信跟我反映這7.71%的經濟成長好像只有高科技的產業半導體才有"},{"start":2749.625,"end":2769.476,"text":"那百分之二左右的消費者這些物價指數也跟鄉親們每天面對民生的開支包括物價高漲的實質體感的落差很大那上班族民眾許多是外食族感受到許多業者調漲售價"},{"start":2770.797,"end":2785.355,"text":"便當價格也調漲 房租也上漲都讓民眾生活倍感壓力啊那我請問主計長你怎麼來看待整個統計數據與民眾感受的巨大落差你有什麼看法"},{"start":2786.338,"end":2803.121,"text":"其實是沒有落差的因為我們整個一個調查一個368項的一個品項它是有分各種但是我們也都針對各種也把它列出分列來表達讓大家來知道這個訊息我剛剛有特別提到說可能那些高科技產業"},{"start":2804.242,"end":2823.848,"text":"當然他們的主要經濟成長是在那個區塊那至於說其他就是他們感到這個落差很大這是不是代表我們CPI的統計的權重這個有失準數據沒有辦法反映在民眾的生活壓力上"},{"start":2824.668,"end":2828.431,"text":"我們GDP的一個本身它雖然是集中在AI但是AI也帶動其他產業的一個成長包括投資所以這個部分並不是說它沒有成長而是它成長的幅度沒有AI的那麼大"},{"start":2841.66,"end":2862.375,"text":"所以本身包括消費這部分都是有成長的所以整個CPI的部分像水果蔬菜最近都穩定了都穩定下現在是因為石油的關係但是石油關係的部分我們有反這樣的一個機制存在所以對民生的影響並不是很大影響不大經濟部3月底將召開電價匯率的一個審議委員會決定4月的電價"},{"start":2870.521,"end":2880.085,"text":"那你也是竹記總署也是電價匯率審議委員之一啊那政府機關代表之一那我請問竹記長對於電價竹記總署你們的立場是希望動漲電價還是調漲電價"},{"start":2886.67,"end":2902.001,"text":"我們以這個時機我們希望說我們有一個物價穩定小組我們都希望能夠還漲所以像石油天然氣都還漲所以我們這方面也希望到時候盡量是朝這個方向讓人民能夠安定穩定"},{"start":2903.342,"end":2911.664,"text":"因為中東戰火前夕中油累計虧損已達804億那中油原先預估今年可轉虧為盈獲利目標是80億看來應該是有很大的難度那中油監護穩定物價政策針對中油虧損請問主席長中央是否有對討論過116年變異算來撥補中油有沒有這樣的想法"},{"start":2933.309,"end":2951.44,"text":"中友目前有向經濟部提出四年的一個增資計畫那我們這個會把他納入計畫裡面來針對中友來增資然後以協助他度過這個難關好我希望齁這個要就是放長遠一點去看啦那我來繼續問那個沈記長那個沈記長"},{"start":2955.262,"end":2974.213,"text":"因為審計部發展AI審計強化應用AI人工智慧來查閉以協助第一線的審計官來辦案那媒體報導說副審計長李順寶一夜已經就退休被鴻海集團延攬那本席當然我也祝福他"},{"start":2974.873,"end":2984.063,"text":"由於前副審計長李寶順對於AI的這些科技應用相當熟悉那請問審計部那個審計長李寶順副審計長退休以後是否會影響審計部未來推動AI審計的這項工作會不會"},{"start":2993.076,"end":3009.842,"text":"謝謝委員關心這些問題李副審計長是在我們審計部任職期間對於審計業務都所貢獻至於他退休後個人的生涯規劃是個人職涯的選擇本部予以尊重及祝福"},{"start":3013.683,"end":3027.307,"text":"我們這一方面的人才 世衛的人才 AR的人才非常的多啦所以我們也會從育才訓練 我們一年訓練了一千多人次也會從攬才 也會從留才 這三方面進行"},{"start":3032.208,"end":3038.174,"text":"也希望就是有真正好的人才來當副審計長這個整個AI這個區塊由他來執掌能夠照過去那種操作方式我認為這個很重要謝謝我們第三位的副審計長就是朱姓處長是這樣喔"},{"start":3051.546,"end":3072.205,"text":"因為過去有發生很多橋樑安全檢測虛偽的造假案例檢測照片複製貼上關於AI審計本級是希望審計部對於跟人民生命財產安全息息相關的這些預算比如說橋樑、隧道安全、山坡地的監測、大眾運輸、維修、保養等等要加強來"},{"start":3076.169,"end":3094.172,"text":"把關他的力道那現在AI身為技術日新月異許多照片影片一時之間難以分辨真假AI生成的假收據假照片未來審計部是否有能力來揪出這些不法"},{"start":3094.753,"end":3098.795,"text":"我們對這一種假照片這一種我們就揪出了非常多揪出了三百多件所以這個也都移送減掉對於這方面尤其這個屬於民生上像那個台鐵旁邊的邊坡的那個安全我們通通剛剛委員講的那幾項我們都列入重點查核因為這是關心人民的生命財產沒有錯這個很重要"},{"start":3125.088,"end":3140.516,"text":"這個 沈記長自從本期去年12月詢問沈記長有關於媒體報導253億的中油關塘接收站三接外推方案環波體興建工程涉及的湖泡工程預算當時沈記長說因為社會上對這個"},{"start":3145.92,"end":3159.776,"text":"紛紛擾擾有財務的問題有採購的問題所以派省紀官專案調查那已經經過三個多月那我請問省紀長中游三接工程案這個調查結果到現在可以對外說明嗎"},{"start":3160.868,"end":3177.551,"text":"目前這個案子我們就照委員的那個組織的主事我們去查了第一個我們把他移送檢調第二個我們已經移送檢查案整個案子我們通通因為進了檢調進了檢查案現在這兩個單位在瞭解因為他有那個書族好 積極偵探最後一個題那個沈紀長"},{"start":3189.833,"end":3214.079,"text":"因為政府預算違法濫用 審計部有職責後續的追蹤把不當使用的這些預算刪除不管是中選會前主委陳英前這個違法失職重新刊登公告使用了931萬元之前的審計部查核 勞動部救安基金濫用"},{"start":3215.479,"end":3221.605,"text":"預算七千兩百二十四萬元那請問審計部這些違法使用的預算何時能夠追回來總不能遙遙無期沒有結果吧這一個部分就按我們今天啦是重點查核我們已經派人到那個勞動部去查這些問題啦積極追查我們要看成果好不好好謝謝謝謝聯會"},{"start":3243.032,"end":3245.733,"text":"第二位請賴世鮑委員指選謝謝主席以及各位鄉親有請陳主席長以及陳省記者兩位一起請陳主席長跟陳省記者"},{"start":3272.308,"end":3300.887,"text":"委員好兩位長官好那麼我們立法院這個正式三讀通過就是民生總預算新興計畫38項其中包括TPAS大概70億左右包括交通部的包括補助地方政府的補助地方政府大概60億的交通部自己大概10億左右"},{"start":3302.948,"end":3313.173,"text":"致孫恍恍計劃 少子化就讓生小孩一胎十萬塊生育補儲等等38項718億這個民生總預算三讀通過組織總入是不是就准許這個預算通知"},{"start":3321.557,"end":3347.933,"text":"我們已經詢問給各單位 請他先行動之了可以先行動之了但是問題就是說 這個部分他雖然先行動之 但是他和預算三讀通過的效力是不一樣所以如果立法院將來審議預算的時候 針對這些預算有所刪減他還是會產生一些的問題造成行政人員整身在中央上的一個制裁"},{"start":3351.175,"end":3375.003,"text":"你先回答我就是說已經700多億是不是准你動之是不是我們已經請問請各單位簽願中請各單位來動之所以開始可以動之了已經在簽願了好 那個要請沈記長了沈記長對這個事情我們三讀通過雖然是總議院裡面抽出一部分"},{"start":3378.025,"end":3391.858,"text":"這個審計部的態度是什麼看這個事情預算法裡面如果有還沒有完成審理但是有經歷完先行同意動之的是可以執行的所以我們會參照這個718億原則上我們會看他的一個希望他能夠加強執行"},{"start":3401.121,"end":3413.925,"text":"如果像主計長講的那718億不會有主計長講的那個情況我們就通過了 三讀通過了不會有那種說通過以後還要把它刪減啊這種事情不會發生啦但是萬一發生會怎麼樣"},{"start":3420.827,"end":3434.676,"text":"行政院有一個暫停規定啦他到時候要調整但是大應通過了我們是希望我們通過了就通過了啦這一步就不再審了啦預算有審查的要去注意到我們拿出來780億通過就通過了"},{"start":3437.978,"end":3465.244,"text":"就通過了深圳市行政部門今天我是樂見我們的主計長說已經動之了因為我一直有聽到一個聲音說卡住了 你們還不動之 不好 特別我要將一哥提醒主計長你的報告裡面第八頁就有提到了第八頁呢這個講了很多中間有一段我念給你聽了"},{"start":3467.715,"end":3489.303,"text":"五國社會保障總體有效覆蓋率由105年的91.5%逐年增加到94.8%主因最近政府持續推動少子化 擴大發放 以而緊貼就很清楚嘛 你自己說的這一次7181就是有這一條"},{"start":3491.244,"end":3510.664,"text":"所以我現在講一個就是說,主席長我樂見你這樣的回答,但是因為這個Echo,如果今天你說不可以動之,你的報告都這樣寫,我再請教主席長,美以一戰爭持續,GDP要不要調整,今年度的預估還是7.7嗎?"},{"start":3512.652,"end":3532.525,"text":"第一個就是說看油價漲 成長的漲價的一個幅度油價已經漲破一百了啊是 但是現在以我們的物價來講因為我們有抑制它雙漲嘛 對不對所以目前我們有一個物價穩定小組那我們讓油價還漲那這樣子的一個虧損我們會做補貼那所以現在變成包括台油中油台電還有台水相關"},{"start":3542.532,"end":3570.828,"text":"你編預算沒有 他補貼多少 要補貼多少不是 這補貼是將來以後再已經補貼啦 已經原來漲五塊多 現在變成一塊多了所以他會變成 當場我們都支持啦 我們都支持他會當場他吸收 他會當變成他當年度的虧損所以一般的虧損的部分 我們就會透過增資的方式所以我的問題 等一下等一下 你們這樣沒用嗎所以我的問題就是GDP"},{"start":3571.969,"end":3585.561,"text":"按照主計程的講法GDP不會影響還是7.7%是不是 我就問你是不是GDP的部分這個部分我們是每三個月會做一個評估包括這個條件包括數據所以我們會在"},{"start":3588.443,"end":3602.187,"text":"整個做整個條件但是目前以那個對每一個一個那個關稅的一個問題並沒有很大的影響那現在就是美伊戰爭的一個部分那如果說油價上漲10%對GDP影響0.12%那所以以這樣來換算的部分那如果說這個部分這是一個變動的因素包括是不是還有其他一個變動因素我們都會列入考量"},{"start":3618.191,"end":3625.058,"text":"然後在五月份的時候我們還在做一個修正是這樣子我就是不理啦到目前我們收購是7.71%沒有錯可是不用喔你剛剛講啦油價沒漲10%GDP減0.1%對不對好"},{"start":3637.93,"end":3640.853,"text":"那現在油價已經從80塊漲到100塊了漲25%了漲25%了啊這樣就影響0.2、1.25啦1.2啦是是嗎是照這樣換算所以整個是做依此來做變動的變幅所以就看油價的漲怎麼樣"},{"start":3657.287,"end":3666.417,"text":"阿物價咧 物價會漲0.24所以現在油價漲25%了 已經漲25%了所以25%乘以0.24的物價就漲這樣子囉 是不是啊但是 主計長我提醒你喔要提醒你啦"},{"start":3677.455,"end":3691.224,"text":"那個桶莊 瓦斯 小吃店 小賣店 我們旁邊立陶宛旁邊的小吃店 哀聲鈴鈴 笑苦連天 因為瓦斯 桶莊瓦斯會去啊"},{"start":3693.485,"end":3709.197,"text":"是,這個部分呢,中油和台電它會有一些議職漲幅的一個措施出來那這個部分在行政院的一個穩定物價小組裡面都會討論我再問你喔,油價已經漲潑白了,像叔叔不吃喔"},{"start":3714.622,"end":3734.647,"text":"中華去年度虧損90億,累積虧損811億,每年利息付出140億,三度提出增資,你們同意到增資嗎?所以今年他如果提出增資,我們會把他列入考量經濟部,他已經有跟經濟部提出要增資"},{"start":3736.228,"end":3750.698,"text":"這個部分3500億他什麼時候要提出來什麼時候要提出來116年度中長城計畫的時候我們希望他能夠他在115年2月已經跟經濟部提出來了主席長 同意"},{"start":3751.238,"end":3768.592,"text":"不是 這個部分我們預算編列會有它一定的一個程序會先到中長城的一個計劃去審什麼時候可以確定要給他增資 什麼時候可以確定大概今年的七月七月 來 沈記長你看一下好不好中聯合現在持續虧損 要提增資 沈記長的態度是什麼"},{"start":3772.938,"end":3785.272,"text":"中油連續五年多虧損不是光現在所以我們是希望中油能夠減少不經濟輸出增進一些效能"},{"start":3787.094,"end":3799.77,"text":"注意要不要爭執我們尊重行政院的態度因為這個時代 這個時機啊因為有這樣的問題啊總有會講啊 總有會講啊所有的虧損都是配合政策啊補貼稅虧損虧到這樣啊你怪我 你不用怪我啊來 那個 沈記長"},{"start":3806.044,"end":3825.75,"text":"因為中油有一個油價的調漲基礎他根據他購買的原料他會慢慢慢慢原來有個公司 現在政府因為局勢世界中東在打仗所以給他動場這個局勢動場產生的虧損我是同意組織長或是同意行政院的做法這個"},{"start":3833.032,"end":3850.862,"text":"因為政府的力量介入 造成中有的虧損這點要政府扛啦 不能夠叫中有扛啦好 最後我同意好 最後一個來那個 主席長請回喔 我就問一下沈記長111年了 國內有暗網兜售台灣2300多萬人的個資啦你有沒有立案調查 有調查結果咧"},{"start":3860.194,"end":3883.122,"text":"正在調查 什麼時候有結果我們大概列底他們去採抽的人員會回來有受害的民眾去提告 就在我的選區到台北高等行政法院還贏呢 還贏呢他就告 告內政部 他贏囉"},{"start":3888.615,"end":3902.491,"text":"我就問審計長的態度他們已經有民眾提告他的個人權利受損所以呢他就提告北高行台北高等行政法院判他贏內政部輸"},{"start":3904.042,"end":3909.767,"text":"這個我們會根據損失發現 損失事實來做處理這個我們已經通知了國安署那個諸安署這個很重要好不好我們把它當作因為這個諸安是國家的重點我們一定會配合你同時調查一下這是內政部的啦還有我們健保署"},{"start":3931.585,"end":3939.289,"text":"的資料也是被盜也被盜出去的那是早期 早期我們一族也在追也在追一下 好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請郭國文委員質詢那個主計長跟審計長在上台不用再向我行禮了不用客氣 謝謝謝謝主席 有請主計長跟審計長"},{"start":3961.108,"end":3988.434,"text":"請主席長跟沈記長委員長好主席長你好我想剛剛回答那個委員的這個質詢當中有關於這個經濟成長率預估是7.71那之所以這樣會出現7.71的這個數字的GDP成長來自於出口的增加22.22投資呢增加4.24消費增加2.51那物價的部分呢CPI的部分控制在2%以內嘛對不對"},{"start":3990.885,"end":4006.245,"text":"這個數字最新的數字你今天報告當中寫的一樣的這個數字可是你當初預估的時候應該是二月戰爭還沒發生之前還沒有發生還沒有發生之前那你說你發生之後你可能會在五月的時候再進一步的調整嗎是我們在五月的時候還會開會來再做一個調整"},{"start":4007.987,"end":4025.58,"text":"才會做一個調整但是現階段來說大家就是擔心在GDP的部分會有什麼樣的衝擊在CPI的部分會有什麼樣的衝擊跟你預估的部分會有什麼樣的差異舉剛剛的例子來說的話其實你們當初設定的油價每桶是58.6美元當初設定是這樣子現在已經破了100美元也就是說它不是只有上漲25%而已"},{"start":4036.568,"end":4044.713,"text":"就數字上用基數來去換算的話不是上漲25%幾乎是要成長將近一倍啊那每增加10%你說減2.0.20.1"},{"start":4049.606,"end":4067.977,"text":"0.1那現階段那很明顯那衝擊蠻大的你有沒有可能在短期內先預估一下數字不用再等到五月來面對這個數字上的問題來做一個內部調整的修正讓外界可以知道說到底這一個中東情勢造成的影響在經濟成長的GDP跟CPU可能會造成的成長是多少"},{"start":4069.518,"end":4087.533,"text":"因為這個部分本身它的一個成長我們目前差不多石油和天然氣三四月目前是都沒有問題那大概五月以後所以現在如果說看戰爭它一個長短那目前來講的話就是剛剛講的如果調漲百分之十會影響到0.1那如果CPI會影響0.24那這個部分呢我們"},{"start":4094.099,"end":4113.828,"text":"因為目前我們也會有雙議長的一個那個就是我知道政策上有議長的問題嘛待會我們來討論議長的那個政策的一個推動的問題可是現階段除了議長之外其他的國家處理方式啦就我知道美國的方式日本的方式他就把原來的這個戰備儲備的這個石油把它釋出嘛"},{"start":4116.249,"end":4140.369,"text":"他用釋出的方式來壓抑但是即便各國都已經在釋出這個石油的情況底下他的油價一樣是破百嘛你看如果是油價持續上升的話如果你加上沒有溢價的話那物價一定會波動嘛譬如講你一個漁船出去外面捕魚所耗的這個油費如果增加的話他捕獲的魚回來到市場一定會增加價格嘛"},{"start":4140.629,"end":4169.989,"text":"那一定會造成這個物價的波動嘛不是嗎所以說這連帶的關係的部分目前為止穩定物價小組比較做的部分還是黃小玉的免稅而已可是穩定物價小組現在對油電的部分是政府全部要吸收嗎如果政府全部要吸收的話那政府對於整個中油跟台電的負擔會越大剛剛雖然有委員講得很好聽但是事實上去年的台電要1500億的撥補的時候就被砍掉了不是嗎"},{"start":4170.889,"end":4189.118,"text":"對啊 那你確定中油接下來的政治一定會順利通過嗎那如果沒有通過怎麼辦我們會來努力 是這個部分我當然知道你持續努力啊但是問題是 本節目問題是說沒有通過怎麼處理啊對啊 這家公司可能就面臨這個可能會有"},{"start":4190.649,"end":4208.706,"text":"會有破損 不是破損而已 可能會倒台耶對 等於說台電和中央它必須背負利息背負利息對 所以就過往在野黨的態度是如此耶除了中俄跟台電的部分一般的民眾還是最關心那個GDP跟這個CPI的部分"},{"start":4209.486,"end":4224.037,"text":"不管是你0.1號0.24也好你至少要預估一下這個戰爭的短期中期跟長期可能的預期充足的三種模式出來嘛可是現階段來說你到了3月16號已經發生了15天之後我們沒有看到任何的一個你們的推估啊"},{"start":4224.707,"end":4249.222,"text":"我們一般GDP是三個月推估一次然後我們CPI是每個月都會推估所以一般現在就是變成我們在五月的時候會針對GDP裡面它各項的變數然後各項的變數去做確認然後它影響的變數是多少然後去推估那像CPI的話所以五月的時候才會再行修正就是了不論是CPI也好或GDP也好"},{"start":4251.343,"end":4278.572,"text":"每個月GDP的話到五月我們會請專家學者還有各種專家來針對所以現階段的方式就是一樣是那個壓抑油價跟電價的方式來面對還有黃曉玉的方式來面對這個過程就面對這個過程另外的部分那個增資中油增資的部分盡量說服盡量努力我們會盡量努力來說服各位委員"},{"start":4279.448,"end":4308.007,"text":"好 那另外一個部分有一個部分我們的總預算目前都還沒有通過那我們社福今天要透過追加預算的部分來處理這個部分我們知道這個社福今天的部分非常的重要且關鍵因為你在報告當中也提到說這個有效的覆蓋率的部分你們在今年度做一個首次的公佈希望做一個有效的提升這個是環環相扣的問題"},{"start":4309.969,"end":4326.128,"text":"這六項這個中低收入付的社福津貼總共的金額是高達65.9億之外你還有兩項喔國民年金的部分喔還有老農津貼的部分喔老農津貼跟國民年金的部分他要花費多少金額"},{"start":4327.641,"end":4354.056,"text":"老農如果是看一年是129那如果是兩個加起來嗎因為老農今天一年是129如果半年的話大概64.5國民年金也是他半年是85左右六大社會是65這樣子所以整個是如果是半年這兩個半年增加的額度增加大概120億是不是對"},{"start":4355.217,"end":4376.994,"text":"所以說總共加起來大概185億之多嘛如果這個追加預算還是會面臨一個問題啊如果在野黨Bag的話那要怎麼處理第一個總預算要先過總預算沒有過總預算沒有過就沒有這個追加預算的問題可是問題我現在問你就是說這是法律上的問題啊你總預算沒有過你怎麼追加預算那我們怎麼是對外號稱說我們7月1號要上路"},{"start":4378.871,"end":4395.422,"text":"所以我們希望能夠在總預算請各位委員能夠先行審查因為現在我們總預算都還沒有審查那如果總預算要先審查我們在七月份追加預算才有可能上路那不然的話可能要再往後延遲"},{"start":4395.802,"end":4410.321,"text":"所以就只能往後延所以這是環環相扣啦不過我跟你跟那個主席講說這個其實老實說在民間是因應期盼啦所以我們在講這一個有關於這個社福津貼提高的話最佳預算的話大家眼睛都睜了很大"},{"start":4411.002,"end":4427.482,"text":"不論是從中低收入也好從老農今天也好或國民年金也好大家眼睛都睜很大都很期待這一筆啊這個追加預算趕快通過可是總預算沒有省追加預算就不可能嘛那為什麼我們追加預算可能有能夠付出這一筆錢呢因為你之前有算過嘛"},{"start":4428.303,"end":4456.124,"text":"就是說我們在113年的社會保障支出是2兆6953億嘛占整個GDP的10.5%嘛平均每人增加11.5每人平均是11.5萬嘛有效的覆蓋率是94.8嘛對本席再提醒妳一下我們的GDP呢從113年到115年齁增加的金額是5兆6千億啊我們有更多的籌碼"},{"start":4458.08,"end":4462.96,"text":"跟預算跟這些稅金可以來照顧這些弱勢嘛不是嗎"},{"start":4464.272,"end":4489.69,"text":"所以說我們有機會提高這些覆蓋率所以對增加這些有效的覆蓋率跟提升這些社福津貼包括國民年輕或者是包括老農津貼也好國家財政應該是沒有什麼任何問題吧我們所以說如果政府我們就盡量來提高一個這個社會津貼的一個覆蓋率對 沒有錯啊所以我們有這個實力可以做好這些事情這就是賴總統所說的好的數字要轉成好的生活不是嗎"},{"start":4490.33,"end":4516.603,"text":"所以今年我們大概整個一個六大社會今天我們是提高23.5%你從那個數字報紙上都有寫我們要去講的是說呢因為今年選舉年大家可能會又扣你帽子我們要講的是說過去長期以來我們累積的經濟實力可以照顧這些弱勢讓它有效的覆蓋這個才會建立一個正當性我只是提醒主席長這個部分最後我再跟主席提醒一下"},{"start":4518.043,"end":4542.67,"text":"現階段的話國民黨的版本的這個國防特別預算當中所提的這個金額啊等於是在挖坑給行政部門跳為什麼如果照國民黨的版本我們的負債從原來財發法的他們的第二個版本通過要負債這個舉債兩千九百九十二億結果呢這個國防部的部分又增加一千有辦法這樣子處理嗎有沒有辦法舉債"},{"start":4546.815,"end":4566.674,"text":"還有這個空間嗎因為舉在它是分年啦一般我們1.25兆是分8年嘛所以一年差不多1000多億還可以Cover過去最後有一點我要提醒那個主席長因為之前呢財法法的這個部分行政院版本推出來作為一個優先法案"},{"start":4567.395,"end":4591.683,"text":"你做這個優先法案的一個前提底下一直以來在本委員會一直提醒你在事權跟財權的這個如何處理我們希望有一個版本出來我們還是在提醒你在你在推動這個同時當中你一直在提一直在討論但是已經一年多了我希望這個東西在財發法在討論過程當中能夠增加一些說服力好不好主席長請你費心一下也請沈記長"},{"start":4593.483,"end":4604.629,"text":"這個部分從你審計的角度反饋回來讓我們財發法能夠更加健全謝謝兩位 謝謝好 謝謝 請回座下一位諮詢的委員是林黛樺委員好 我們有請主計長請陳主計長委員好"},{"start":4622.693,"end":4635.578,"text":"這個監督國庫帳房本席針對兩個第一個經濟成長並為全民平均受惠第二個特別預算常態化的舉債成長跟經濟財政的紀律這個怎麼用來來來這個好來質詢的部分不好意思啊主席這個我還不知道怎麼怎麼按這個東西可以教導一下嗎這個我不會按耶這我按都不能"},{"start":4651.676,"end":4672.647,"text":"是怎麼按這個嗎我按怎麼不行是按中間這個嗎不好意思主席不好意思好"},{"start":4675.951,"end":4698.96,"text":"沒有電了好沒有電好第一個呢針對平均薪資跟薪資中位數第二個特別預算長待發的舉債成長跟財政機率下一頁好足跡總數身為國家的帳房每一筆的預算都編列代表的政府的施政重點也呈現台灣2300萬人民的生活跟未來在7.7%的經濟成長為何年輕人無感針對標普全球今年"},{"start":4704.502,"end":4720.541,"text":"二月預測今年全球的經濟成長率是2.9%跟去年是持平的但是主計總數你預測我國今年的成長率可以到7.71%而今年的消費物價指數呢也會漲1.68%"},{"start":4723.644,"end":4727.085,"text":"那足跡總數您說這個115年的經濟成長率高達7.7%這在後疫情時代跟國際貿易動彈下是非常驚人的但是我們來看這一組數據這三個數據平均薪資48,000經常性薪資中位數是38,319元未滿30歲的經常性中位數是31,000"},{"start":4748.189,"end":4767.183,"text":"一千七百四十元好這樣的公佈呢這個平均薪資接近四萬八四十上平均數極易受到高薪資族群跟極端值的拉抬真正代表普羅大眾心情的經常性的薪資是落在三萬八千三百一十九元"},{"start":4767.843,"end":4793.44,"text":"這代表全台灣有超過一半的受僱勞工每年領不到10萬元更讓本期擔憂的是未滿30歲的年輕人薪資的中位數只有31815年所以當政府高喊經濟成長預測達到7.7%的時候這過半數的基層勞工完全感受不到成長的果實就是說政府你在騙我"},{"start":4795.081,"end":4812.393,"text":"就是這個數字 就是這樣的心態所以你每公佈一次 這個民運就提高一次既然你115年了 如此的樂觀那當然我也希望 本席也希望是如此的數字的呈現但是你怎麼解釋這種高經濟成長跟低實質薪資征服的斷層呢"},{"start":4817.236,"end":4827.381,"text":"第二個這種平均薪資的說法是不能為主流民意所接受就好像本席本人我跟籃球選手姚明平均身高也有190啊你覺得這個數字對我林黛華有什麼對本席還有什麼意義沒有意義啊"},{"start":4833.524,"end":4852.673,"text":"就好像你說四萬八跟我一般老百姓的薪資平均三萬八跟三十歲以下三萬的我一定是罵翻你政府了所以這個數據其實就我們的這樣的一個平均薪資跟薪資中位數拿台積電的高薪去平均月薪三萬的基層勞工對他們有意義嗎所以這個您怎麼看呢 竹記長"},{"start":4858.673,"end":4880.701,"text":"因為其實他薪資是都有行業別啦那我們是整個一個薪資的中位數是三萬八那三萬八是指百分之五十以上就會有具有三萬八這樣的一個資格但是各行業別還是有不同啦譬如說服務業他的薪資大概都是在三萬多出頭到四萬這樣一個階級主席長以後公布好了"},{"start":4884.963,"end":4907.544,"text":"不要每次都引起民怨就覺得我們在騙人民所以你必須公布實質薪資的成長率這個東西你一定要同步的公布這樣人民會覺得我們也看著這個數字今年的這個平均薪的平均的中位數是這個三萬八也許明年三萬九或者明年我又多了這個五百塊"},{"start":4908.905,"end":4936.252,"text":"這個才表示我們的施政有力道看的是成長進步而不是用那個表面的數字完全是跟現實脫鉤的這樣可以嗎是我要跟委員報告事實上我們在公佈的時候我們各行業別的一個中位數包括它的平均薪資包括它的中位數各行業別各年齡別我們都有公佈並不是說沒有公佈那你的新聞稿要特別注意"},{"start":4937.432,"end":4941.956,"text":"這個部分並不是說沒有公佈只是說因為你的新聞稿的重點接下來特別預算常態化的舉債成長跟財政機率這個表啊這個是從2017年也就是我爬梳大概這近十年來現在2026年這近十年來從2027到2025的基礎前瞻一直到我們2019到2026的新式戰機的採購"},{"start":4964.614,"end":4978.172,"text":"到這個防疫紓困振興海空戰力提升疫後強化經濟社會韌性的特別預算一直到今年還沒有去年還沒通過的強化韌性的國防大概5200億一直到國防特別預算1.25兆"},{"start":4984.639,"end":5002.19,"text":"這個數字顯示特別預算的累計速度的斜率是明顯的陡峭化這正是常態化的最強鐵證所以從2005年的特別預算的累計我用累計有0.3兆中央的債務是3.6兆"},{"start":5005.131,"end":5031.056,"text":"2015年的特別預算的累積是1.1兆中央債務是5.3兆2024年的特別預算的累積是2.6兆中央債務6.5兆2025年我直接就把它加上去了你的2.6兆其實大概2.5多啦再加上這個我們的這個還沒通過的那兩個國防特別預算可以特別預算累積到4.3兆中央債務大"},{"start":5033.817,"end":5053.611,"text":"達6.47兆也就是過去20年我從2025年開始算了特別預算的增幅跟2025年比較4.3跟0.3兆我增加了14倍遠遠超過政府債務的成長速度這代表政府已經不能通過總預算的節流來做事情"},{"start":5054.091,"end":5070.156,"text":"而是習慣性的開外掛 繞過預算法的第83條特別預算是否已成為政府擴張支出的主要工具而非例外工具好 我在這邊也跟審計部 那也有請審計長"},{"start":5071.596,"end":5081.841,"text":"審計長在這邊這個審計部點名的五項大概所有的這個預算會有這五項的失能這是你們的報告第一個執行力虛胖這個計畫的延宕嚴重第三個重複補助亂象第四個規避正規的預算那第五個是年齡感激度這是審計部你整個針對預算的這樣的一個報告"},{"start":5101.249,"end":5111.856,"text":"那就以這樣的報告來對應我的這個特別預算特別預算能是例外嗎過去十年的特別預算超過了將近2.5兆我就沒再加上這個2025年沒通過的"},{"start":5116.679,"end":5132.835,"text":"幾乎每兩年就編一個新的這符合預算法中的不定期或重大正式嗎如果每年都有重大正式那為什麼不乾脆編進總預算接受每年一度的細目審查呢"},{"start":5133.476,"end":5148.721,"text":"好 那你們是不是真的也是在規避立法院的監督呢這是本席的第二項質疑特別預算是才一次通過分年執行這是否大幅削弱我立法院年度預算中的逐年刪減"},{"start":5150.362,"end":5170.863,"text":"調整計畫的監督權利呢這是不是叫做空白授權第三個本席質疑的是真實的舉債比例為何這2.5兆的特別預算累計的特別預算當中是有多少是透過舉債之意債務呢又佔了GDP的比例下降"},{"start":5172.12,"end":5192.51,"text":"這是你們的說法 官方的說法 債務暫時GDP比例下降但是事實上是什麼 是分母GDP長大了 但是分子債務的絕對值卻是不斷的堆疊所以一旦經濟下行的時候 行政院主計總署又如何確保財政機率先由沈記長您先回應"},{"start":5194.694,"end":5201.335,"text":"特別預算的部分我們曾經109年或者112年都有提醒行政院會常態化這一個部分我們是希望能夠去注意到財政永續的問題我們有統計過差不多90年到114年我們辦了34個結算差不多1年1.5個大部分都擠債差不多有擠債的4兆"},{"start":5223.84,"end":5225.642,"text":"既然沈記長有這樣的一個建言了就一個財政紀律希望也能夠常態的去編列那你怎麼看呢"},{"start":5241.042,"end":5265.405,"text":"事實上特別預算它並不是很例外它是有特別有一個必須經過特別條例經立法院通過以後我們才便利預算所以它是有特殊的那第二個它其實舉債它都受到我們整個舉債的限制並沒有說放任它不受舉債的限制所以這個部分呢在整個債務的一個控管上我們一直說控管的很好"},{"start":5265.785,"end":5287.821,"text":"那因為質詢世界大我最後提醒數字不應該只是用來美化政績而是發現問題解決問題預算不能只有特別而沒有紀律當例外變成常態這就是對法治跟子孫財政的背叛所以主計長您剛才的回應跟審計部審計長是有衝突的所以你們自己要好好的針對財政紀律再做一個協調"},{"start":5289.983,"end":5317.495,"text":"不要再用GDP的增長來掩蓋債務絕對值的飆升因為這個是後代子孫每個世世代代的債務比是在增加的特別預算本來就是例外的制度在近十年來規模已經超過累計將近2.5兆元人民關心的是政府是否把特別預算當成常態所以請主計總署能夠一個月內提供維持財政紀律的方案給本委員會可以嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":5339.423,"end":5345.527,"text":"主席麻煩請陳主席長委員好依照我們財政紀律法中央政府的總預算能夠"},{"start":5357.655,"end":5376.996,"text":"中央政府能夠舉借的是要佔這個前三年度平均GDP的多少個百分之十五四十點六如果是總那個是四十點六四十點六嘛那現在你知道我們中央政府就算這個普通的預算跟這個"},{"start":5379.223,"end":5390.436,"text":"這個特別預算加總在一起我們現在的舉借數是多少比例是多少26點多26.426.4是你知不知道在馬英九執政的時候曾經高達38點多是剩下只有2點多個百分點36點多啦"},{"start":5401.877,"end":5411.565,"text":"36.3絕算的你說馬英九的時代36.3所以那個差距只剩下4個百分點那個時候是非常危急那時候我有在財政委員會"},{"start":5412.984,"end":5438.27,"text":"那當然你也可以說原因是因為我們這幾年台灣經濟成長率明顯提升所以連續三年的GDP就是往去年前年大前年三年加總在一起的平均數那個金額是比當年是高出很多的我舉個例子馬英九在當總統的時候我在當立法委員2012年那時候國家政府的總預算"},{"start":5439.95,"end":5468.475,"text":"提預算到立法院來才一兆五千億左右詳細數據記不得了大概一兆四千多億或是一兆五千多億大概就是一兆五千億左右那去年度的國家政府總預算是三兆零三百五十億那前年呢前年是三一百一十四年是三兆零六萬九"},{"start":5470.307,"end":5496.032,"text":"六十九萬三兆零六十九億吧三兆零六十九億那前年你知道是多少嗎兩兆七兩兆七嗎我怎麼記得有一年是三兆一千多億他是有兩兆七啊總預算是兩兆七那特別預算加起來才有三兆那一百一十四年是三兆零六十九億"},{"start":5497.834,"end":5513.522,"text":"那也就是說預算規模從2012年到2024年2025年幾乎增加了一倍嘛所以體量不同啦這個有時候是邏輯跟數字的問題我們公司如果我們的資本額"},{"start":5514.907,"end":5535.7,"text":"是10億人我們可能我們舉借個3億4億我這個舉借的比例蠻高的30% 40%可是我的公司的體量如果已經變成20億我的資本已經20億我舉借的數目是3億4億的時候絕對數字沒有增加但是那個比例是下降很多那國家的預算喔"},{"start":5536.923,"end":5558.173,"text":"不是跟個人的財務跟公司的財務不一樣不是債務越少越好因為我們要做一些資本門的投資資本門的投資它是會產出的就舉例我這個公司如果到銀行去舉竊我舉竊來的目的是增加生產增加生產之後是能夠再為公司賺進更多的錢這個是大家都"},{"start":5559.253,"end":5581.393,"text":"贊成這樣子的做法所有的這個總體經濟學 總體財政學大家都贊成這樣的講法所以台灣的負債比例到現在是27 25 26這個在全世界是少見難得的財政超級非常激烈我認為全世界排第前三名"},{"start":5582.745,"end":5607.161,"text":"美國的超過他GDP的百分之百嘛日本最高嘛那中國隱藏的數字不算也高過百分之百以上啦那台灣百分之二十幾啊我覺得這是很健康也很好我們這些年的財政控管很好那至於沈記長常常在講的這些其實我在這邊十三四年了你每一年講的都一樣這個內容剛剛那五點"},{"start":5611.409,"end":5637.928,"text":"這十幾年來你把報告拿出來看都一樣因為你是在顧慮憂慮有這樣的風險而不是指證說現在就是這個樣子那你站在審計的角度一定是要把可能會發生的最不好的狀況就是醫生會把最不好的狀況說你如果在這個吃東西的時候這樣不節制啊這個澱粉吃這麼多啊小心你有糖尿病啊什麼這個講並不是跟你講說你現在有糖尿病"},{"start":5639.522,"end":5664.316,"text":"這個兩件事情要弄清楚那我現在一個最大的問題是去年度應該要審結今年度的國家政府總預算就沒有審嘛那看起來也不會審啦你記不記得去年我就跟你講過你不要傻了 國民黨不會給你審的啦我現在看法也是一樣的國民黨跟民眾黨加強還是不會審你去年的總預算"},{"start":5666.018,"end":5682.407,"text":"那現在給你通過一個700多億 你只可以動用請問那個有沒有經過預算審查 到底你用了之後會不會追究責任我舉個例子 你裡面說700多億可以給你用那怎麼用也沒講啊 序幕也沒有啊你敢用嗎"},{"start":5686.475,"end":5702.272,"text":"萬一你用了之後他不認帳那你怎麼辦呢是 就是怕這樣怕將來如果說用了不認帳那又做刪減那對行政人員來講這是違法然後也是屬於自愛那你知道他為什麼會通過說這個七星的7181號給你用你知道什麼原因嗎"},{"start":5705.462,"end":5732.768,"text":"因為政治的壓力選民的壓力啊事情出來了之後趕快拿個急救章要解決這個事情啊T-box所有人都在用嘛大家就在罵啊為什麼你們不審查預算啊所以趕快用這個東西來搪塞來塞這個騙這些選民啊騙這些需要使用的人我跟你說喔預算是全國人民共用的他不是哪一個黨派的啦"},{"start":5734.056,"end":5762.184,"text":"我在這個地方苦口婆心一再講喔如果你的第一預備金第二預備金跟障礙準備金都不能用270億那個是救命的錢啊你將來台灣萬一發生地震發生颱風發生淹水這些天災啊中央政府如果救災沒有任何一毛錢可以用欸那要怎麼辦處理長跟我講要怎麼辦到時候要怎麼辦"},{"start":5764.277,"end":5786.709,"text":"對 因為現在五月汛期就來那有一些必須要事先做準備的免得將來颱風來的時候沒有辦法因應所以像災害準備金和第二預備金 第一預備金這總共170億部分那這個部分是很重要的所以我們是希望能夠如果沒有記錯的話 三個加起來是270不是170喔170億"},{"start":5790.631,"end":5807.985,"text":"170是我記錯嗎對 因為第二預備金80 災害準備金50其他的第一預備金40是這樣所以170好 那如果沒有這170現在萬一發生天災舉個例子嘛他們副總召花蓮上次不是地震嗎是"},{"start":5808.405,"end":5822.259,"text":"阿他不是要求我們要去救災嗎那你到時候媒體上大家就互相推責因為吵得不可開交阿中央政府沒花沒白洗阿對於我現在我們紀元沒辦法給我們錢沒辦法來救災"},{"start":5825.319,"end":5836.857,"text":"他不知道是因為被立法院把你綁死啊錢都不讓你用然後將來還要再歸咎給你那如果吵得不可開就說趕快在立法院他們多數立法院通過一個決議說讓你們用也不講細節啊怎麼用"},{"start":5841.778,"end":5863.974,"text":"所以我是覺得另外一個角度來講他那個7181如果給你用 既然有那個決定既然他們說任何那個可以用我個人建議 你就給他用是 我們有簽報院裡面要動之對 那你動之的時候他至於將來如果有審計書或什麼 不管因為你是授權 立法院授權給我用你又不跟我講細節所以我怎麼用我就怎麼用"},{"start":5865.88,"end":5878.105,"text":"因為你已經通過這個預算的這個叫他們的說法已經通過預算的這718已經通過預算的這個審議了很奇怪用一個決議然後就說你可以用那以後我會不會用一個決議你的總預算全部都通過了不用審今年度的預算沒有審喔你以為我跟你報告我預估喔明年的他也不會給你審"},{"start":5891.069,"end":5904.48,"text":"他這個會跟你對抗到2028年了他沒有拖垮台灣喔他們不會甘願啦所有的錢都不會讓你用啊不然你是要怎樣 我就算多一點啦我們國民黨跟民眾黨的票就是比較多 不然你是要怎麼樣到時候就是這樣子的狀況嘛"},{"start":5909.242,"end":5921.421,"text":"預算沒有審議影響到我們整個一個全國一個扶民的一個大計所以我們希望貴院還是能夠盡速來審議那你這個苦口婆心說了很久然後我也跟你預測過了我預測有哪一點不準嗎"},{"start":5922.662,"end":5947.427,"text":"我跟你說 我準準準啊 不會過啦 也不會審啦要審什麼 每天立法院365天都開會依照憲法規定兩個會期 中間要休會他也不休我佈建在一個司法防護網 365天都是會期裡面結果預算都不省立法院憲法給你規定最重要的預算審議 他不跟你進行啊"},{"start":5948.151,"end":5970.602,"text":"我們希望還是盡快進入我們大家都希望啊 問題是我們的希望要去向誰哭訴啊你們趕快大聲講第一備災準備金沒有過第一備軍第二軍沒有過萬一台灣發生天災中央沒有任何一毛錢可以用先講啦 不要等到發生了之後才在那邊講說沒有錢可以用現在就要講 馬上就要講開記者會天天講"},{"start":5975.805,"end":5989.256,"text":"我們也一再呼籲 因為170億有栽准金 第二預備金還有第一預備金 這個已經進入汛期所以這部分都是需要來先行動之的一個部分好 加油了謝謝有請賴會員 賴委員謝謝主席"},{"start":6013.404,"end":6015.125,"text":"來請主計長跟省計長兩位兩位兩位長官早安那個我想主計總長我再來跟你演練一下剛剛那個我們我們稍微講就是說你的第二億備金其實在我們已經二讀二讀就是"},{"start":6038.357,"end":6054.42,"text":"可以動之 二讀通過可以動之可是這個秉瑞委 秉瑞召委他是講說不會過未來也不會過也不可能預算 也不可能信那你覺得呢"},{"start":6057.067,"end":6083.501,"text":"針對的剛才秉瑞委員你跟他對話對了那麼久他剛才特別就提到了他說這個780億的那個第二億那個第二零十億備金因為現在貴院有先行動資718億這個是屬於新興計劃的部分但是沒有包括第一預備金和第二預備金還有災害準備金170億的部分"},{"start":6085.542,"end":6107.953,"text":"那所以這個部分沒有辦法動之會影響將來如果有各縣市有災害那我們沒有辦法動之災害準備金而且現在五月到了汛期已經到了有一些的一個防災一個作為或措施必須先行進行也沒有相關的一個經會可以做因應那所以這個部分將來如果災害發生"},{"start":6110.014,"end":6135.927,"text":"那沒有辦法動資災害準備金那這個部分對整個總預算對中央來講對各縣市他是沒有辦法進行補助那怎麼辦呢這個興起來臨的我跟你講這個下雨就是這個大雨來了你這真的就是說整個災情你擋不住的話那你沒有第一倍用第一倍第一億備金第二億備金還有你的災害準備金這個170億那你還是要照動啊"},{"start":6139.088,"end":6161.782,"text":"像台中非洲豬瘟它一直都是動第二預備金那第二預備金這個部分如果沒有動它對於整個一個將來一個非洲豬瘟的一個防疫也有很大的一個影響是啊所以說延續性啊你這一個就是整體來講的話事實上這個非洲豬瘟這個議題沒有解決它是橫在那個地方"},{"start":6163.283,"end":6173.285,"text":"你到底是不是就是說整體的你是不是要那個禁掉了就是說可以用噴漆地或是不能用噴漆地這個問題都一樣沒有解決那怎麼辦呢跟委員報告因為新增計畫有1017億那可以動之是718億那裡面有299億那299億包括軌道那軌道裡面有台南的"},{"start":6187.948,"end":6197.396,"text":"鐵路地下化還有一個花蓮的一個花東雙軌的一個計畫還有包括那個這些還有一個延續性的一個計畫1805億包括還有那個所謂的剛剛170億的一個預備金所以總共這些合起來有2274億是不能動之所以對整個一個總預算的影響是很大"},{"start":6213.389,"end":6231.023,"text":"而且等於說你718億其實是先行動之但是他並不是三讀通過所以將來如果還是有預算被刪除那對行政人員來講這個恐懼涉及到違法因為你支出的一個機會將來是收不回來了以上一個說明"},{"start":6231.485,"end":6248.902,"text":"是我想主席講這個史無前例史無前例所以在執行上有面臨到了這麼大的一個困難那剛才秉瑞召委就是跟你們建議說你們甚至應該就是每個禮拜每個禮拜都應該開這樣的一個記者會因為這樣的一個記者會其實"},{"start":6252.405,"end":6269.495,"text":"當然就是說效果大不大或許也不大可是起碼起碼你們不斷的在提醒不斷的在提醒那我再講好造成了行政跟審計作業的一個困難這個大家已經都面臨到了那我們就先來講這個掃紙化這掃紙化你看喔這個"},{"start":6274.318,"end":6288.893,"text":"沒有好的這個孕育的一個體制來支持我們整個國家這些年輕人是不是敢生小孩這個是一個面臨到一個很大的一個問題其實我們的少子化已經面臨到一個"},{"start":6289.594,"end":6291.837,"text":"崩盤式 人口斷崖式的一個問題了那我們該怎麼辦呢我們要鼓勵適當的年紀的年輕人來生意的時候有沒有辦法減輕他們對於小孩子的照顧"},{"start":6304.711,"end":6332.585,"text":"他們的時間上的一個負擔還有就是社會居住的一個公益這個其實都是要有一個具體的一個那個政策面出來可是問題就是說你現在編列的預算你也不敢用然後用了以後也不知道將來會是面臨到什麼樣的一個狀況那我就是請問就是主席總長跟沈機長你們怎麼看待這個問題那沈機長你先回答我這個問題"},{"start":6333.826,"end":6352.26,"text":"少子化的一個問題委員關心這個少子化這個少子化已經造成國安問題今年114年才生了10萬人他那個總生意率算起來才0.7這個已經越來越嚴重所以這個部分我們對這個對少子化的問題我們連續查了4年"},{"start":6360.506,"end":6377.764,"text":"我們也提出了一些看法像說因為我們都是婚生子女婚生子女你一定要結婚但是現在結婚率士林的結婚率只有5%所以很多的事情要考慮到源頭"},{"start":6379.185,"end":6396.768,"text":"所以現在政府也有推出婚育宅婚和育一起考慮也有推出說第二胎第二胎就是說第二胎要去強化因為他已經結婚了盡量來強化第二胎最主要的根源就是"},{"start":6397.909,"end":6425.832,"text":"有一個問題 高房價我們的房價很高 但是政府現在有一些住宅政策啦也推出了租金補貼 也推出了秀宅也推出了陳經理長 我想你也非常清楚的看到了掃紙化真正的存在的一個議題啦你現在看到了就是說在推影片上頭我用台灣 日本跟德國就是說在現有的這個"},{"start":6427.665,"end":6443.563,"text":"生小孩子的那個就是育兒津貼補助還有就是說托育的一個服務會用那還有甚至就是說在那個新知的幾戶跟那個所有的社會福利上頭看起來是德國最好"},{"start":6444.224,"end":6463.911,"text":"他從0歲到18歲他每個月就是給孩子一個孩子就是9000塊的台幣這個比就是說你一開始一胎10萬塊還是日本的日本其實也大概是一胎10萬塊那有沒有機會朝著這個面向來做"},{"start":6466.152,"end":6489.317,"text":"這個就是在未來的一個目標啦當然就是說你們現有狀況跟今天今天的這個問題就大家面臨到今天大家坐下來討論的這個議題又有點不一樣了因為我們也擔心就是說中東的地研政治引發的能演成本的一個問題造成就是說我們今天主計跟審計都不知道該怎麼樣來面對就是說"},{"start":6491.858,"end":6516.897,"text":"在藍白就是提出這樣子的一個表決這樣的一個計畫這個其實都是連我們都不知道怎麼監督你們連我們都不知道怎麼監督你們這個是變成是一個國家國家一個非常重要的一個議題啦那我想就是少子化少子化的一個那個未來的規劃還是沈記長你這邊要多用心啦"},{"start":6517.877,"end":6535.075,"text":"剛剛委員提到的那個國際上是一個借鏡像韓國現在有上來這是一個委員剛剛提的那個很好因為這個要想方設法要多方啊多元來處理這個少組化的問題這個對我們以後的整個國安啊或整個經濟的成長會很多謝謝委員關心這個問題"},{"start":6539.62,"end":6553.78,"text":"我想中東戰爭把我們大家其實在整個全世界大家都進入到一個非常恐慌的一個氛圍在這裡我想請教主席總長如果這樣再持續再持續就是說"},{"start":6554.961,"end":6574.87,"text":"持續的一個戰爭下去的話 我們的油價每桶升到100塊的美元那這樣子的一個方式 我們的中油跟台電勢必要虧損這虧損 我們持續這樣給它算 如果是半年的話 中油要虧損1100億"},{"start":6577.771,"end":6600.852,"text":"那台電要300到800億,這個因為算不出來,大概是一個初估值那我們也知道說,中油跟台電都是大概都是接近98%的那個供應的那個公司那像這樣子的話,若暫時持續超過半年的話,若是"},{"start":6601.753,"end":6630.491,"text":"演變成未來財政上的一個漏洞還是結構性的一個調漲的壓力的時候主委長怎麼辦針對這個部分因為戰爭而負的政治責任是動漲這個部分導致的一個損失按照道理我們是應該要增資這些公司或給他一個補貼那這個部分我們是希望說對他來增資那目前呢"},{"start":6630.931,"end":6631.792,"text":"所以你會直接就是那個就是編列的那個就是補貼了"},{"start":6653.151,"end":6673.492,"text":"因為他有提報三年要增資3500億的一個計畫到經濟部所以這個部分呢包括中友包括台電這個部我們也希望說貴委員會的委員能夠全力來支持以上那你會主動協助我們也會主動協助因為他負有一些政策的一個任務那當然是一定要主動協助了謝謝兩位謝謝"},{"start":6686.508,"end":6689.509,"text":"下一位請劉書斌委員質詢主席好 那有請主計長和沈計長上台 謝謝請陳主計長跟陳沈計長委員好"},{"start":6708.433,"end":6724.46,"text":"主席長好 沈記長好我們來瞭解 去年的時候立法院修法提高了軍人的待遇跟警校退休的所得替代率但是行政院卻沒有編預算這總共都超過有20萬的警校能夠受益這個法是在4月27號去年的時候生效是一件好事 但是我們可以看到在行政院他沒有編列預算 最終是他沒有編了差額"},{"start":6737.566,"end":6743.55,"text":"那這個差額當中如果以的是警政二階來看的話114年那一個月的差額就達到了5000元那每新增一年這個差距就會更大了那主計長我們就當要詢問是說到底是部會他沒有去提出來包括是國防部還有內政部等或者是權敘部等他沒有提這樣的一個概算的概算跟預算的需求還是"},{"start":6767.688,"end":6782.187,"text":"還是他們提了但是你們把他刻意忽略掉了那這部分還是說府院有高層下定跟你們講不要去編列請主席長您清楚的在這個地方跟國人說清楚"},{"start":6783.826,"end":6810.773,"text":"事實上按照道理如果說要提出一個支出的一個需求應該要先尋求行政院的一個同意籌託裁員這個部分那第二個因為他整個一個軍人加薪的部分他是破壞整個公務人員整個薪給的一個制度造成公務人員他整個薪階的一個不平衡所以這個整個制度破壞對於所以你的意思是說"},{"start":6812.053,"end":6827.13,"text":"主席 您的意思是說行政院因為前述的原因所以他就下令不准部會們跟全序部部會們他們提出的概算需求嗎不是 我再說明一下因為這個變成是說另外一個就是說"},{"start":6827.751,"end":6843.128,"text":"他整個一個退休制度的一個改變對將來整個一個退休薪金的影響非常他整個一個帳戶的影響非常大所以這個部分呢我們是有提視線所以我們還是等可是視線結果這就是你們問大的問題了"},{"start":6846.111,"end":6864.208,"text":"行政院是行政機關市縣還沒有結果出現的時候那是司法機關的責任在這個地方你們自己把它當作在市縣也沒有作出暫時處分你們卻把它當作是這個地方就不處理就是不編列這地方的確是違法失職啊不是嗎"},{"start":6865.569,"end":6869.712,"text":"再次要說得清楚行政院已經僭越了自己的職責跑到他們職責 僭越了司法院職責這個地方僭越了 他才是真正在違憲的呢"},{"start":6895.069,"end":6921.988,"text":"因為行政院他只能做行政院的部分他依法行政他就是立法院通過的他沒有做出他就說事先解釋沒有暫時處分就是不應該就是你們應該做依法行政你們自己違法的違憲的你們還在講那麼大話等事先的處分這是不可以的就是在講這邊我就是跟大家講出來所以你剛才已經講了是行政院的部會沒有提出來但這段是因為總統給下令的地方要等"},{"start":6922.868,"end":6950.983,"text":"司法院、憲法法院的違憲判決所以這個結果就是這樣的情況那這邊我再跟大家講現在在這邊我們現在已經知道了目前的現在115年的部分呢就也有相關的也有相關的這個退府人員這個警校這邊要退休這邊呢應該看起來就是說因為我們民眾黨也幫了警校人員去做集體訴訟那我們現在看看是說今年馬上要遇到的是如果五六月份在編"},{"start":6952.083,"end":6966.299,"text":"下一年度的預算行政警消人員的退伏的這個基金的部分的要撥補政府應該撥補的部分的話請問主席長你今年五六月份如果還沒有出來結果你們會怎麼辦你們會編嗎我們還是會視線的一個結果來編列"},{"start":6971.109,"end":6974.473,"text":"好 你們違法違憲的方式就繼續呈現而且呢根據我們現在上次有問到全序部的施能傑部長他已經說了這部分因為"},{"start":6984.076,"end":7011.211,"text":"每個月欠該退休的人員以這樣的中士警察的中士階的這部分來講一個月五千元他已經有了這個審定書這退休審定書就已經可以做訴訟之後就到時候如果被行政訴訟行政法院如果被打臉就判決是政府應該要被強制執行他去撥補這些錢的話那真的是對行政院最大的打臉了我是提醒你們要應該知道行政院不能夠僭越違憲"},{"start":7014.253,"end":7027.825,"text":"權力分立的原則 創造司法院的司法權這才是你們該做的 趕快去編入已經有記錄出來了 這部分已經做訴訟了這樣有結果出來 你們就是會被打臉的狀況好 我們繼續往下看喔 抱歉再往上看好 那繼續看一下 我想要問的是沈記長沈記長 針對"},{"start":7037.308,"end":7056.213,"text":"剛才所說的行政院的部會或是全序部他不編政府應該因為在立法院通過的法律三讀通過公布之後他不編列政府的法定應撥補治退府基金的預算的行為陳記長 陳記長有沒有權利要求行政機關去改善如果有的話方法是什麼謝謝委員關心這個問題"},{"start":7063.465,"end":7090.304,"text":"這一個部分 預算的編制權在行政院預算的審議權在立法院我們審計部是結算的審定這一個部分 因為要通過一個法令如果重大輸出 可能要協商一下在預算法裡面 需要協商一下行政單位"},{"start":7091.405,"end":7107.779,"text":"那我們損棄部的立場因為這個法案已經公布了我們會在審查年度結算的時候來評估看看這一個部分會給行政院或相關單位一些建議"},{"start":7109.843,"end":7137.663,"text":"好 我們到審計部決算 不過還要等到大概一年之後嘛 對不對好 再看好 那我們繼續往下看喔這個地方就是這個藐視國會的這個行政院的部分的確要把它改進喔那我們繼續往下看下一個問題喔主計處您在二月份的時候呢公告了實質薪資這個月薪資到達4.8萬這樣的一個消息喔但是呢我們看到這個標題是非常的亮眼喔那月薪又突破多少是看起來蠻好的喔"},{"start":7138.604,"end":7166.503,"text":"但是這樣26年最大的漲幅其實有7成多的受僱員工他們的薪資根本就領不到平均數所以當你在公布這部分的資料的時候其實這7成員工他們心在糖血他們認為說他們是被成長的一群那你有沒有看到這個平均薪資跟經常薪資的這個差距有在縮小其實可能沒有或是請主席講你有沒有預警到在行政院院會當中有去預警到這個低薪跟中產階級貧窮化的問題嗎"},{"start":7168.964,"end":7193.545,"text":"我們也有公布所謂的一個薪資的中位數那這個部分其實我們今年總薪資是成長3.9也高過我們的一個物價指數2.21所以這個本身我們包括經濟成長和薪資成長是都有在成長只是說它行業別也各有都不同"},{"start":7193.945,"end":7221.755,"text":"那我們這些也都有公佈按照行業別您公佈之後主計長您公佈之後那你們提出剛才我所說的這些有些行業別其實真的是七成以下七成左右他們是在這個平均數字下的你們把這個意見跟行政院講他們應該就針對部分就怎麼樣不是把像什麼AI的產業啊都是變成是最高的然後就變成說在帶動可是其他人都哀嚎啊有把這個意見反映出去嗎"},{"start":7222.415,"end":7245.696,"text":"是所以我們整個一個基本的薪資他也不斷在調整也就是為了讓這種的一個差距縮小所以我們薪資調整你還是沒有說到方法我們基本工資也做調整然後也鼓勵各鼓勵獲利的一個公司能夠盡量把盈餘做分配給同仁做為薪資所以這個部分有"},{"start":7245.956,"end":7264.424,"text":"各項的一個優惠基本工資只有3萬塊錢而已3萬塊錢而已但是現在你平均數你說達到4萬多根本就是沒辦法達到這差距實在很大主席你們這邊是不是能夠給報告說把你們當初給行政院的部分給本期一個報告是是是我們再補充"},{"start":7265.945,"end":7270.47,"text":"補充資料給委員一個禮拜之內是那我們繼續再看看其實我們更擔心的是這一個所增加的幅度其實是因為加班而造成的剛才說電子業的加班時數它其實高達說13.8%那製造業有高達10%"},{"start":7282.245,"end":7290.714,"text":"那整個情況之下呢就會造成說其實他是因為他平均的薪資不足他才用透過加班的薪資加班的方式而且剛剛您說的喔他所增長的這樣的一個薪資喔事實上的漲幅跟他們加班的這個時數的漲幅呢是不成比例啦13.88成長才4%"},{"start":7302.826,"end":7322.297,"text":"跟委員報告其實他加班是因為AI的景氣那帶動那個所謂的一個製造業也跟著好所以是因為景氣好而增加的一個加班他並不是說因為薪資低的加班所以你整個的情況就是我們的發展通通集中在"},{"start":7323.177,"end":7327.002,"text":"AI跟相關產業嘛高科技的產業這部分其他的我們的零售業我們傳統的部分都是受害者啊這部分傳產也有增加只是它增加的弧度沒有AI的模特兒那沒關係你如果這樣講沒問題但是你知道嗎"},{"start":7339.159,"end":7362.453,"text":"平均以加班加工那個電子業的時候呢他們平均呢一個月要增加27個小時等於說他平均呢他一週是工作6天當然這種6天的情況他怎麼可能去生小孩他怎麼可能去有時間去照顧小孩所以這個地方呢行政院是罪魁禍首啊這部分讓如果新資的這部分能夠合理的去平均的話這才是對我們最大的幫助啊"},{"start":7364.474,"end":7381.045,"text":"那這個主席再等我大概一分鐘結束就好了我想那個蘇檳委員是不是請那個主計長他把你要的資料書面答覆給你好不好那我再提出一個問題就好就是把問題就好那你才可以給我資料好不好就是這樣就講出話就好了"},{"start":7381.926,"end":7398.451,"text":"就是呢我們剛才看到的是現在已經在那個美伊戰爭嘛那這邊看到的是原油是非常重要的那這個CPI的預測會多少如果戰爭長達半年或一年有沒有相關配套措施有沒有跟其他部位事情這部分那是不是就請主計長你這邊之後在大概一個禮拜之內給報告"},{"start":7401.192,"end":7421.056,"text":"是 我們大概三四月的油價都已經有調整好那五月以後也目前在努力當中那我們行政院有一個物價穩定小組包括中油 包括台電都會互相來做一個整個一個做調節的作用 益智雙長好 給報告就好了 謝謝主席長 謝謝沈議長謝謝蘇冰委員 接著我們請顏寬恆委員質詢"},{"start":7426.462,"end":7441.916,"text":"那主席在這裡那個報告一下 嚴委員諮詢完了以後我們休息十分鐘主席各位立席官員大家好 主席有請主計處陳主計長陳主計長"},{"start":7448.379,"end":7463.029,"text":"委員好主委長早美國聯邦最高法院上個月才定川普的對等關稅政策違法那美國貿易代表格雷爾又在11日宣布"},{"start":7463.849,"end":7468.875,"text":"美國貿易代表署將依據《1974年貿易法》第301條針對包括台灣在內的16個經濟體啟動貿易調查就半導體、鋼鐵等產能過剩的這些產業啟動調查最快今年夏天就會加徵關稅"},{"start":7481.829,"end":7498.502,"text":"那目前大家最關心的中東戰火問題美國跟以色列聯手空襲伊朗那伊朗也展開報復行動戰事更是擴及到中東地區的其他國家那也導致國際油價一度飆漲更是創四年新高"},{"start":7499.423,"end":7509.808,"text":"同時也帶動食品跟糧食價格飆漲引發市場擔憂除了擔心中東戰勢升溫也恐怕會出現通膨通膨升高經濟成長這個節緩及停滯性通膨的問題"},{"start":7514.87,"end":7529.485,"text":"美國最新公布的數據就出現潛在的停滯性通膨這個警訊那許多雇主在2月無預警的裁員失業率已經有這個升高的趨勢那請問主席總書有沒有"},{"start":7531.247,"end":7544.103,"text":"先評估未來可能因為301條關稅加深又加上中東再次對我國經濟會造成什麼樣的衝擊我國會不會也因為因此而面臨停滯性通膨的問題主委長"},{"start":7546.218,"end":7555.041,"text":"我再跟委員報告就是第一個戰爭的部分我們這樣當初在初估115年經濟成長7.71的時候那時候這個部分是還沒有納入但是問題這個部分我們也把它納入了"},{"start":7561.363,"end":7576.535,"text":"那至於232關稅的一個因為我們有跟美國訂定MOU 包括ART的一個所以它對我們的影響相關並不大因為我們大概有七成大部分都是屬於優惠的一個稅率那現在就是說"},{"start":7577.316,"end":7600.11,"text":"我們有關石油的一個上漲對我們經濟成長的一個影響因為我們三四月都已經這個部分需求都已經調整好那五月的部分也正在努力那台電中油呢這個部分呢如果因為政策抑制上漲這個部分它所導致的一個損失呢它有提出相關要增資的一個需求那我們也會來協助解決那所以這個本身呢我們整個一個"},{"start":7605.874,"end":7618.187,"text":"GDP的整個一個預估大部分是預計在5月或做一個修正那修正的部分在看整個中東局勢還有包括整個美國關稅的一個影響的情形還有各項CPI整個影響來做一個調整"},{"start":7624.854,"end":7635.942,"text":"那再來這裡就是說本身CPI的部分我們是每個月都會公佈CPI的一個影響那目前我們是油電都雙億億漲 包括"},{"start":7639.784,"end":7662.725,"text":"天然氣的部分也是議長那這一個部分是由台電和中油來運作然後行政院也有一個一個物價物價抑制小組這個本身他也有在做一個運作所以針對民生的一個整項我們都在一個預估調整當中好主委長謝謝那你剛剛有提到沒關係等一下我再請教那根據新聞報導"},{"start":7666.194,"end":7687.783,"text":"海峽實質上遭到封鎖引發全球能源危機昨天週日晚間國際油價已經噴漲至每桶106美元漲幅高達45%就算美國及其他盟友釋放史上最大規模的戰略儲備原油"},{"start":7689.223,"end":7715.981,"text":"遠遠不足以解決由戰爭所引發的原油供應中斷的問題所以不只是油價那我們台灣進口的液化天然氣有四分之一來自卡達但台灣天然氣儲存量只有11天這大家都知道那如果情勢惡化供應出現干擾那能源價格跟供應風險都同時升高那這種情況之下無論是油價還是天然氣進口物價上漲的壓力都會一直增加"},{"start":7716.781,"end":7741.301,"text":"那我想請教主席講目前對於戰事可能導致這個能源價格上漲的風險就像你剛剛提到說中野會虧多少那這個台隊會虧多少那除了這樣子的評估之外還有你剛剛提到說在那個GDP當時並沒有納入中東戰事的一個情況所以你這個也要重估嘛所以勢必一定要重估那這個"},{"start":7742.962,"end":7759.25,"text":"現在國際營業每桶都超過100元現在100元以下幾乎是不太可能短期也不會有看到它下降所以對於今年物價跟經濟成長的這樣子的一個跟當初你們初估的時候要做一個全新重新的整理要不要"},{"start":7759.77,"end":7769.864,"text":"要 所以我們在5月我們會重新初估那坦白說100美元就是說如果石油漲到100美元大概上漲70%它對經濟成長率的影響是3月9號的時候跳到119"},{"start":7777.555,"end":7783.401,"text":"所以差不多將近80%左右那就會影響將近9%左右對CPI的影響也將近1.7%多所以這個部分兩個的一個影響如果說是到時候控制不住的部分或者是說台電終有沒有辦法"},{"start":7797.617,"end":7825.669,"text":"針對這一個來做協助那我們是盡量希望台電中油把這吸收下來不要去影響到人民的一個物價那整個部分台電中油再由我們來協助解決對啦因為從能源價格啊這些電價啊電價上漲的壓力還有物價上漲還有市場的變化對這些東西我想中東戰這個中東戰事會情況會怎麼樣沒有人可以預估沒有人預估是那我想這個部分"},{"start":7827.39,"end":7843.248,"text":"所帶來的影響非常大,包括我們天然氣的部分,我們都是依靠進口那如果斷氣了怎麼辦?那經濟部長他說,如果暫時拖到4月,他不排除要全面開啟煤炭,就是我們的燃煤發電"},{"start":7844.409,"end":7870.555,"text":"因為重啟他沒發現 這是他的最後手段嘛 對不對所以在進行物價跟通膨的預測的時候一定要把這些最重要這些因素全部納入因為現在已經跟當初預估的情況是完全不同那我想還有就是說如果電價真的漲上來那民眾這個消費者還有我想是沒有辦法預期沒辦法接受啦"},{"start":7872.595,"end":7892.24,"text":"因為時間有限 主要就是說這個戰爭已經實質影響人民的生活再加上所有能源 這樣子一個價格的變化包括我們中油我們的統裝瓦斯因為中油在三月份的時候有宣告不漲價因為中油有政府的補助"},{"start":7893.48,"end":7911.413,"text":"但是台塑化的部分他已經搶先宣布調漲瓦斯的價格,同宗瓦斯每公斤0.6元其實現在已經這些我們看到的這些夜市攤販還有這些店鋪吃不消就算中有宣布不漲"},{"start":7912.613,"end":7941.284,"text":"這也是臨時的這個短暫的嘛你不可能全年嘛或者說連續嘛如果能這麼做也好但是問題是說做不到那這些供給不足這樣子的一個情況然後這一波的漲勢沒有看到它的一個什麼時候會好轉的方向所以我想要請教主計長政府所謂的價格監控機制實質上能夠發揮到什麼樣的效果當我們民生的能源成本"},{"start":7942.644,"end":7963.453,"text":"因為國際情勢上漲的時候除了監控之外除了補貼之外我們有什麼措施可以避免物價上漲持續被推高簡單回答就好了我們是經濟部他本身就像剛剛講的他會把他一個沒有燃煤的一個部分他會重新開放那第二個他也會補助中油和台電"},{"start":7964.233,"end":7973.862,"text":"那這些是去減少說漲幅然後整個那個第三個呢他本身在供貨的部分他也會盡量去協調說讓他能夠順利所以這方面是涉及到各方面各面所以這個部分我們會緊急來盯緊各項的一個變化來做整個一個調整"},{"start":7985.41,"end":7991.895,"text":"就是要提前做好各項經濟風險的一個評估跟準備那能夠盡量維持國內的經濟穩定的發展 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝好 謝謝坤衡委員那個嚴委員邀請大家4月第3個禮拜4月17到4月28"},{"start":8009.687,"end":8010.507,"text":"謝謝我們休息十分鐘"},{"start":8054.497,"end":8077.398,"text":"謝謝觀賞"},{"start":8092.064,"end":8100.339,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":8638.698,"end":8642.061,"text":"好 那接著請羅明財委員質詢主席各位 處理的習慣 大家好主席 可不可以請陳主席長好 主席長陳省記長省記長"},{"start":8665.308,"end":8692.298,"text":"兩位總統好本行向來最關心的就是市井小民的生活的問題過去誠心向主計總署也請教過蚵仔麵線滷肉飯還有市民最重要的國民小吃滷肉飯最近的價格浮動怎麼樣"},{"start":8693.971,"end":8705.138,"text":"差不多40到50跟前年比起來好像又漲了很多以前是30那面對這樣的情況當油價上漲超過100塊的時候竹氣廠你擔不擔心是 我們這個部分在物價穩定小組裡面就會針對這個來做討論"},{"start":8722.082,"end":8746.096,"text":"油價一漲萬物齊漲香港衛生紙才短短一個禮拜漲幅高達20%請教一下竹記長台灣現在目前的油價情況動漲或者是緩漲的情況可以撐多久"},{"start":8747.489,"end":8774.618,"text":"至少可以撐到四月啦因為目前三四月經濟部都說沒有問題那台電中油也認為這個是OK所以這個部分在動漲方面是OK的那現在五月我們也正在努力然後經濟部他也說如果這個天然氣或者是這個部分沒有辦法供應他在每一方面他會優先來做一個開花以上所以三月四月份國人無需擔心那問題就來了那"},{"start":8777.459,"end":8791.916,"text":"5月6月以後怎麼辦所以我們必須要整個景町這整個變化然後再做一個因應好5月6月光陰事件日月如梭一下子到了8月以後怎麼辦"},{"start":8794.628,"end":8811.881,"text":"是它是整個的部分經濟部它會研擬相關的一個措施那中油台電包括台水它都會介入所以整個部分這個整個是會做整體來一個研擬經濟部在這方面會做研擬所以供車票會不會漲這要看當時到時候的情形計程車會不會漲這都必須要看變化的情形高鐵會不會漲"},{"start":8824.758,"end":8833.87,"text":"最近啊 航空啊 已經開始在那邊航價要漲兩到三成你有沒有注意這樣的情況"},{"start":8835.575,"end":8854.472,"text":"所以這個部分我們在物價穩定小組針對每一項都會做深入的一個討論然後有些哪些樣一個一個整個讓它意志長的一個措施要怎麼樣來採行這個本身在行政院都有一個深入的一個討論"},{"start":8856.001,"end":8880.952,"text":"我們過去都講當經濟成長的時候希望全民共享去年的經濟成長率本來預測是3.45%左右後來去年的經濟成長率是多少去年是8.68%8.68%很棒可是我們深入的了解發現"},{"start":8882.475,"end":8908.817,"text":"其實所有的傳產大概接近以上市上櫃公司來說60%是低於20年平均線換言之百工百業沒有獲得經濟成長的果實真正賺的真正得到企業高成長的是什麼"},{"start":8910.354,"end":8933.207,"text":"當然是製通產業啦但是它相關它也連帶帶動相關的一個產業的一個上有原料的一個生產喔啊譬如說它擴充廠房啊也增添設備也帶動建材啊 金屬這些的一個成長包括整個製造業的成長都也還不錯對 那個都恭喜啦稍微一點點而已啦不多啦"},{"start":8934.249,"end":8960.437,"text":"真正顯著讓我們看得到的就是半導體以及AI周邊大概就是台灣45家比較大間的公司周邊的電源效果就比較差一點所以在這個艱困的時刻本席要主張為所有的小老百姓為所有的百工百業來著想"},{"start":8962.628,"end":8983.664,"text":"去年經濟成長那麼多 今年經濟的成長率多少我們是預估7.71 但是當初在預估的時候是還沒有中東戰事的一個發生所以這個部分中東戰事的發生我們在五月的時候我們再做一個修正就整個一個變化做一個修正"},{"start":8984.232,"end":9010.445,"text":"是 主席長 我們大致可以看出來如果船長只有3.1%來說大概有4.5 5%以上都還是回歸到半導體跟那個周邊這是一個全世界的趨勢那你可不可以有什麼辦法在緊急的這個時刻拿出來震災拿出來幫助這些比較弱勢的團體"},{"start":9013.146,"end":9039.404,"text":"包括高齡者身心障礙者還有有一些疾病的或者一些單親家庭有失業的或是職業傷害等等的這些需要社會福利救助的這一群他們口袋的薪水通通沒有增加但是生活的壓力一天比一天越來越強政府這時候應該要出手了"},{"start":9041.177,"end":9050.068,"text":"我跟委員報告事實上六大福利津貼有在運作說要調整大概23%但是這個部分必須要透過追加減預算來運作"},{"start":9056.316,"end":9061.399,"text":"但是因為我們總預算一直還沒有審查所以我們希望貴院能夠趕快來審查我們115年度的總預算審查通過之後呢包括災害準備金第二預備金還有第一預備金這些都能夠動之針對災害我們能夠有所運用第二個我們也可以在總預算之後我們辦追加減預算就是有關六大生活津貼的一個調整"},{"start":9084.272,"end":9099.132,"text":"那包括國民年金的一個調整包括老農津貼的一個調整對於剛剛所講的這些弱勢族群這些社福機構等等本席舉雙手贊成你馬上送過來我就准啊"},{"start":9100.182,"end":9121.047,"text":"你就現在送給我下一分鐘我就馬上支持你也不必說等全部每次等來等去等到天荒地老你113個立委你先拿過來我馬上就准我該簽了簽了所以這一點你無需擔心那你還有其他的委員你可以一一去說服"},{"start":9121.98,"end":9135.075,"text":"我就是大力要支持這些弱勢族群我是要支持青年族群這本來就是我應該要去爭取的那另外再來講一下今年的話大概稅率會有多少兩兆八千多"},{"start":9144.164,"end":9154.581,"text":"那這兩兆八千多有沒有辦法照顧我剛剛所講的以及因應這些可能物價即將要調漲 石油要調漲 油電水氣要調漲"},{"start":9155.936,"end":9162.561,"text":"你們還有沒有其他的錢 夠不夠來贈債 夠不夠來平抑這些物價因為115年就舉債2992億啦所以這是2兆8的一個稅入 和3兆350億的一個稅住這所舉債的一個那個"},{"start":9176.252,"end":9204.058,"text":"那現在如果說還要再追加的部分那還要再就是說那個所謂的那個韌性戰力韌性戰力的一個特別預算的部分所以這些都必須要增加主委長 這樣啦齁你這樣想來想去都是還是覺得很那個欠缺啦那邊都是不夠啦本市齁報一條比較長的給你稍微比方的啦台積電"},{"start":9207.711,"end":9235.602,"text":"中華民國持有幾%的股份大概有幾張?成本是多少?台積電它是在國發會啦國發會 也一樣啦 那都你們管得到它是有持有16億股的一個16億股 幾張?16億股 160萬張不然你因應這些你算算啊如果需要3000億 5000億你算一下嘛台積電"},{"start":9238.414,"end":9260.949,"text":"賣個兩萬張有多少他每一年繳付一百億對啦我說賣個兩萬張會有多少因為當初的成本現在拉下來都很低有沒有可能考慮現在台積電股價也蠻高的考不考慮賣出台積電來充實這一次的賑災將來基金運作就沒有錢了"},{"start":9261.584,"end":9284.924,"text":"基金運作就沒有錢了20年前的話他才不到一兆現在已經有的話快三兆多了怎麼會很沒錢呢這有點殺雞取卵啦不會啊當初你們500塊的時候要賣出台積電是本席在立法院說要求不要賣你調資料出來看啊"},{"start":9289.042,"end":9300.115,"text":"我要求他們要不要賣 他們說 那個委員我們就不賣所以 當初到現在 現在台積電到底算不算是高點啊聽說還會再更高那萬一沒有更高咧"},{"start":9307.631,"end":9332.431,"text":"其實就算再更高我們有160幾萬張我們賣出是要來幫助所有全國需要幫助的國民另外還有一個我們不能只有一個護國神山我們要在這個階段來找第二個護國神山第三個護國神山我們才能長長久久就跟本席當初在這裡建議央行沈記長也在"},{"start":9335.205,"end":9345.392,"text":"建議央行總裁在每盎司黃金1250塊的時候要大膽買進1000億陳局長有沒有買黃金是央行最重要的準備啦所以大概這個問題應該央行都有在控制中有沒有買大概他會少量除息買進沒有 他沒有買"},{"start":9364.176,"end":9379.802,"text":"我的意思是說當初如果有買一千億現在的市值就是多一千億所以我希望說我們政府機關各單位可以靈活的來"},{"start":9381.172,"end":9399.718,"text":"考量大家一起努力啊 度過艱困的環境 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝明財委員我想那個 沈記長 這個明財委員的這個建議非常的珍貴參考一下 多少參考一下 謝謝來 接著請李坤城委員 坤城委員謝謝主席 我們請主席長"},{"start":9411.323,"end":9412.424,"text":"主席長主席長好辛苦了那本席我看你今天所貼出來的報告但是這個報告我覺得這個主席長好像還是非常的熱觀這個對於這個今年的這個GDP的成長率還是估算有7.71%"},{"start":9432.836,"end":9453.358,"text":"但是呢 因為這個報告應該是這幾天才提出來的但是我看一下 主席你沒有把說美國現在在打伊朗嘛然後中東戰爭時有了危機那也不知道哪時候會結束然後呢 現在就是說因為美國的這個對等關稅已經被撤銷了那我們現在跟他重新再談判然後呢 他又重啟這個301的調查"},{"start":9454.899,"end":9479.585,"text":"這些都是一些不穩定的因素但是我看這個主計長的這個報告裡面都沒有把這些不確定的這一些甚至是負面的因素把它加進去那請問一下主計長這個今年對於這個GDP的成長率還是有這麼高的樂觀的7.71%的這一個預估嗎甚至這個人均GDP有到44,181美元然後呢消費者物價指數CPI呢還是處在這個2%以下的這個溫和區1.68還有這麼樂觀嗎"},{"start":9484.321,"end":9504.047,"text":"我跟委員報告,事實上我們去年經濟成長也很好,8.68%那今年7.71%在那個高成長之下,要再這麼高但是問題是我們的一月份它的出口就非常的暢旺它整個成長對,一月份二月份其實都沒有我剛才講的那些因素嘛對不對"},{"start":9504.667,"end":9531.702,"text":"所以到二月底才發生所以我們在二月中旬的時候初估的部分就是7.71到二月底的時候中東戰事開始發生的時候所以這個部分影響到我們的部分當然是油價油價的一個上升那我們剛剛也提到油價上升百分之十會影響到我們GDP0.1的一個部分那如果成長一倍那就會往上再去加深"},{"start":9532.162,"end":9550.755,"text":"那本身還有一個物價的部分所以那時候算油價是 每桶是多少錢一千五十八塊那現在已經double了吧現在是719塊 差不多幾乎是一倍嘛所以等於是說可能會成長一倍然後包括我們的物價那我們的物價也是大概成長10%會有0.24%這樣的一個所以我們目前但是問題是說我們行政院在"},{"start":9559,"end":9587.388,"text":"整個一個物價穩定小組對我知道我做了這些努力所以三四月目前天然氣石油都有台電中油還有一些台水相關的公司都有吸收所以這個部分我們以後就做針對這個因為政策因素而需要做賠償的部分我們損失的部分我們來做補貼或包括增資所以這個部分我希望讓民生的物價能夠穩定"},{"start":9588.788,"end":9597.015,"text":"這都是政府穩定物價的措施那我只是問主計長還對7.71的經濟成長率還要保持這麼樂觀的態度嗎因為我剛才講這些變數都持續在進行當中持續當中我跟委員報告我們物價指數是每個月修正每個月會公佈物價指數然後每三個月會公佈我們的"},{"start":9614.048,"end":9614.368,"text":"一定會受到影響的吧"},{"start":9635.128,"end":9651.168,"text":"無可厚非的 對啊但是受到怎麼個影響還要看我們整個一個制度的一個我們整個相關措施的一個進行一個是可稱是在我們的部分那現在政府有做了一些油電的一些穩定的措施至少到四月份為止嘛 是"},{"start":9651.468,"end":9672.575,"text":"那但是我們不知道說戰爭何時會結束那油價一直在漲那另外就是說就是說我們這個美國的這個301調查也不知道調查情況是怎麼樣那我們跟這個美國關稅的這個談判情況是不是能維持過去所談好的這個15%不疊加這都還不確定那所以呢其實主席處這個應該要戒慎恐懼不是說這麼的樂觀還是維持在這麼高的一個經濟成長率啊"},{"start":9679.417,"end":9699.699,"text":"我要跟委員報告其實我們的一個評估都是比較保守因為以往有喔 去年是很保守啦後來一下拉到8點多啊但是今年我看好像又比較樂觀了一點點今年7.71其實目前也是保守的一個只是因為這還是保守的估計喔因為我看你的新聞稿是說還會再上揚"},{"start":9701.02,"end":9723.731,"text":"不過那是二月份啦對 但是因為我們的評估都是偏向保守的那除了這個戰爭的部分的因素之外那這個部分我們在談到的就是整個你說關稅的一個部分其實301的一個我們因為已經跟美國有已經簽訂ART包括MOU所以他對我的影響並不是那麼大"},{"start":9724.491,"end":9739.498,"text":"這個當然我們是希望說能夠維持15%不抵價我們就會盡量能夠維持這個是我們的期待但是美方是不是能夠按照我們期待這是另外一回事所以我說這是一個這是一個變數啦這是一個變數我當然是期待就是說還是維持按照我們之前跟美所"},{"start":9739.898,"end":9764.965,"text":"美國所談定的這個關稅的一些內容只是說這些黑天鵝都在啊但是我是看這個主協處交給我們的報告還是維持這麼樂觀的一個數字啦所以本其實是 公尋的報告對啊沒有啦我是說你現在是跟我們這個參委會做這個業務報告嘛理論上應該是提供一些比較新的一些數據然後呢把這些變數把它加進去那或許呢會受到這些影響這民眾會比較會比較關心這一部分啦是是"},{"start":9769.326,"end":9788.894,"text":"就是說像現在這個大家很關心說這個物價可能會受到這些影響 回復會上升那現在有媒體在講說 台塑他們有提到說這個石化下游的一些基礎的原料 比如說PE PP還有PPC受到這個中斷的一個風險"},{"start":9791.235,"end":9811.003,"text":"所以包含塑膠袋、各類的包材、民生基礎、工業的物資可能成本會上漲那這些上漲會影響到什麼呢?會影響到我們的手搖飲業因為手搖飲業有很多的塑膠杯、吸管是會受到影響的然後小吃攤的塑膠袋,據說媒體的報導,塑膠袋單價也都提高了"},{"start":9815.785,"end":9834.484,"text":"那整個這個對於我剛才所提到的不論是手搖飲小市攤甚至我們的網購跟物料都會受到影響價格都會提高這個都是跟民生息息相關的我不曉得說主計走出這邊有沒有去關心或是去了解現在這個民生物價受到的波動"},{"start":9835.405,"end":9858.07,"text":"跟委員報告,我們物價的部分,我們是每個月都要公佈它整個的一個物價的指數,每個月所以我是針對就是說,因為現在石油的問題嘛那我已經想到說,這些有可能這些小吃業者或是手搖飲業者這些會受到影響,你們有沒有去關心要了解,特別針對這個石油會造成他們的成本提升這部分"},{"start":9858.59,"end":9880.709,"text":"是有關他們這個成本會提升的部分我們會把這個反進運到一個我們行政院的物價小組穩定小組裡面來討論那譬如說經濟部要針對哪些中小的一個產業必須要做一個扶持或者是說小資業的一個部要怎樣來一個補助這個部分就會由經濟部來研擬相關的一個對策"},{"start":9883.812,"end":9895.258,"text":"那這個有納進去你們所謂這個什麼民生的一些核心的調查物價指數有涵蓋在這裡面嗎我們整個我們整個會把這個我們還是會提報啦還是會提報讓上面來了解就是說因為石油會漲到哪的時候我們不知道我們當然希望說戰事很快就確定那戰事看起來"},{"start":9912.428,"end":9938.113,"text":"伊朗還是有一些反擊的能力那荷姆斯海峽還是這一個有要運出來還是會有一些問題所以民生物資多少會受到影響那這些都是跟我們民眾息息相關的我希望說主計總署這方面能夠多去了解一下提供給上面來做參考好那現在就是說立法院他們有通過這個718億的這一個新興的預算可以動之"},{"start":9941.134,"end":9957.089,"text":"那現在就是說有雖然這個是不合常規的這個預算的審查的一個狀態啦那在這部分的話那718億就是先動資就對了是我們已經簽願要來動資那但是我們今年的預算是3兆嘛是不是3兆350億3兆350億那他只動資了這個718億"},{"start":9961.986,"end":9983.86,"text":"動資不到一趴吧是 所以還有包括因為這是新增預算的部分新增預算還有299億沒有通過然後那個比去年預算還要增加的部分有1805億也還沒有通過那再來就是我們的第一預備金還有第二預備金還有栽準金總共有170億沒有通過所以總共有2274億元沒有通過"},{"start":9988.073,"end":10002.815,"text":"那請教一下,雖然說原來這個計畫可以再延續再來做使用但是萬一真的立法院有來審查今年度的總運算,現在已經是快三月底了"},{"start":10005.766,"end":10030.084,"text":"本來是按照原定的計畫跟預算大家也在用的比如說前面可能用了三分之一或四分之一結果立法院真的審預算了這個預算就把你砍掉了二分之一砍掉了三分之一這種情況有可能發生啊那就變成公務員說你不是可以按照原來的計畫來做嗎我按照原來的計畫來做結果你給我砍了三分之一砍了四分之一造成我原來的計畫受到影響了違反規定"},{"start":10032.225,"end":10057.902,"text":"對啊 那公務員怎麼辦 現在到底做還是不做所以這個就是讓公務人員很為懶的一個地方所以就是它很多的不確定性它跟真正的三讀通過的預算是不一樣的所以本身執行將來有它的後遺症所以公務人員在這方面執行它有很大的一個不確定性對公務人員來講 將來如果被刪除就是違反規定"},{"start":10058.703,"end":10087.888,"text":"那怎麼辦如果他認為說這筆預算這個是屬於這個原來的計畫那立法院說在黑黨說原來的計畫我還可以繼續用啊那結果用的情況之下萬一省的預算肯掉了這個原本的這個預算沒有這麼多那公務員要不要負什麼責任啊他維穩規定也是這些要收回啦所以這些要收回對公務人員他的一個壓力非常的大是啊那這個就是說用完了"},{"start":10088.955,"end":10113.762,"text":"現在就是說預算原來的計畫聽起來好像可以用但是如果聽這個主席這樣講用起來心裡也是驚驚你也不知道說到底這筆預算是不是不確定性太高不確定說這筆預算是不是能夠按照原來的預算數能夠通過如果能夠按照原來預算通過用起來當然是心安但是這不是三讀的這是按照"},{"start":10115.022,"end":10143.399,"text":"預算法的這個規定等於開了一個後門讓大家可以用所以這種不確定性其實對公務員來講是造成很大的壓力但是就計畫超過的部分就沒有辦法那1800億都沒有辦法動謝謝我想主席長你再找個時間跟昆城委員去溝通一下因為這個其實也講不清楚這個其實要跟在來黨溝通啦其實也不用跟我們溝通啦謝謝謝謝昆城委員接著請李燕秀委員質詢"},{"start":10165.279,"end":10177.865,"text":"今天好多委員都非常關心通膨物價的問題你我都是女性我們都對數字都非常敏感包括每天十一住行我們都感受到通膨的問題"},{"start":10180.406,"end":10202.661,"text":"雖然從數字上看來 去年114年我們消費指數控制在1.66但是整個通膨的狀況 包括剛才羅賓才委員我們以前四菜一湯可以四個人五個人吃可是我們都發現說現在四菜一湯不是份量變得特別小不然就是各個單品價格變貴了"},{"start":10205.543,"end":10222.876,"text":"所以這個是很多民眾都有感的特別是在菜市場買菜的家庭主婦或者是租屋族其實感受對於通膨的體感通膨其實感受是深的主事長你同意我的說法嗎"},{"start":10223.596,"end":10247.527,"text":"是 因為它項目它有300多項啦對 那有的是一個月買一次有的是一年買一次沒有 不不不 仔細講我講的是你我大家外食族都感受到的過去可能我們買三菜一湯可能是一千二好了 假設一千二好了我覺得可能夠四五個人吃我們現在發現說可能看起來沒漲價但是份量變小了三四個人吃不飽"},{"start":10252.99,"end":10268.485,"text":"要不然就各個單品 剛才羅秘甲委員講說滷肉飯變貴了現在大多是外食族跟租屋族都特別體感通膨的狀況 特別的感受特別的深刻妳同意我的說法嗎"},{"start":10270.666,"end":10293.602,"text":"所以就是說帳面上的我們的去年的通膨控制的好像還不錯但是特別是像今年一二月CPI帳目上看起來是呈現收斂的狀況但是卻因為春節的因素所以其實去年的基期偏高所以很多人都會說通膨看起來好像是假象民眾的體感通膨還是非常深刻"},{"start":10294.162,"end":10322.451,"text":"譬如說我在今年一月份的時候我就特別質詢了去年十月份店家上漲但是從十一月份開始我們的瓦斯已經連漲三個月也就是每公斤持續上漲了3.15塊其實這個數字我們看起來好像不多連續三個桶裝瓦斯每公斤上漲3.15塊看起來好像不多但是對於做外賣小吃夜市"},{"start":10324.161,"end":10350.63,"text":"那個老闆感受都特別深所以相對的我剛才講的外食族他就開始都整個漲上來那今年當然我們變今年變動實在是太多了我們都很多會發生的事情其實我們都想像不到你我都想像不到包括中東的議題包括這個雖然看起來我們去年關稅大戰然後關稅看起來好像定案然後現在又有一波不同的變數你就是說"},{"start":10352.23,"end":10377.238,"text":"我覺得我們政府應該要有好幾套劇本雖然這些現狀這些變動的因素都不是我們樂意看到的但是很顯然的面對這些因素我們政府要去想好多不同的劇本過去我們覺得不可能發生的我們都要把所有的狀況想到極致來去做因應你同意然後包括在中東的油價現在也是"},{"start":10378.318,"end":10403.495,"text":"賣方的市場雖然說我們現在都說我們跟亞洲其他國家調貨我們中東買不到我們過去跟天然氣跟卡達買20%、35%那個數字我等一下後面會有但是我們跟其他國家調貨也很多人都在搶貨所以還是價格漲還是賣方市場所以價格還是上漲的所以後續整個影響到我們整體台灣通膨的狀況其實還是有"},{"start":10406.437,"end":10432.35,"text":"那到底我們今年看起來你們的公佈在ART公佈之後我們今年上升率是1.68但是那是在當時原油的價格我記得當時原油的價格差不多每桶大概在67塊不到70塊嘛對不對那現在已經到今天為止我剛剛查了一下數據長到每公斤長到105到今天原油價格是105塊所以"},{"start":10435.932,"end":10463.405,"text":"這個推估你覺得未來還會不會再調整原則上CPI它如果說持有漲10%它就會影響0.24%所以這整個我們依此推估的話今年大概CPI如果這個戰事是持續比較久大概會超過2%但是CPI我們每個月都會做公布我知道所以你也認為它會超過2%"},{"start":10464.926,"end":10468.969,"text":"我們隨時會做因應會不會超過2.25或2.5這個差距就非常大這個我也不敢講因為我必須要看我們整個每一個月的一個狀況包括他的一個情況"},{"start":10486.141,"end":10508.553,"text":"好 我大概懂妳意思我們有了這些數字工具其他的就是各部會的因應策略對不對 我們不能我們要苦民所苦嘛這是我剛剛講政府要好幾套劇本雖然我們現在有在油電的部分我們做動漲的動作但是我們都知道所有的物價的漲幅它不會只有油電的因素而已"},{"start":10509.033,"end":10527.173,"text":"包括鋁 糖 尿素包括硫磺等等化肥等等 氦氣等等這些大眾物資也受到戰爭的影響也會影響到我們整個國家各個產業的原物料所有當外食族這些在漲其實其他的貨物也都在漲是的"},{"start":10529.975,"end":10546.22,"text":"那這個價格也都在漲所以這個衝擊是非常的大那我們手邊到底我們有哪些工具我們現在可以動漲但是我們也擔心說後面當恢復的時候那個一彈很高就像我們每彈瓦斯一樣那個數字就會非常可怕"},{"start":10547.1,"end":10568.328,"text":"我們剛剛也講了就是那個那個中油還有台電它相關天然氣的一個部分呢它在三四月它已經有優先去取得了所以再來就是五月以後的一個數字所以我們整個月就會根據這些各種狀況所以如果這樣子漲下去的話明年我們補貼台電的費用要增加"},{"start":10569.549,"end":10580.658,"text":"所以這個部分要請委員來支持我們該支持的合理的不可抗力的因素我們當然會支持政策的因素我們必須支持但是我就回過頭來我要請問沈記長我們去年沈記長我們去年強化韌性的預算到114年底我們編列了2794億"},{"start":10592.748,"end":10611.979,"text":"我們累積的實現數字有86億當然有一大部分原因是因為普發現金那普發現金我把它算進去的話大概還有2400億所以我們將近有400億當時我們還沒有用還沒有實現所以在去年其實我們已經有預估到關稅的問題當然還沒有今年中東的戰爭所以"},{"start":10618.022,"end":10636.853,"text":"沈記長你對於目前執行的狀況有什麼具體的建議跟規劃的方向嗎其實早在去我們去年114年我們還有400億還沒有花欸但是我們都已經可以遇到包括產業的衝擊包括農業的衝擊雖然最後的關稅還沒談定貿易關稅還沒談定但我們就一直在預估說這個對台灣某一些包括藥品包括農業的衝擊會非常的大所以沈記長你在這一塊"},{"start":10646.238,"end":10670.025,"text":"你如何去監督各部會這是我第一個問題好 謝謝委員關心這個韌性的這個部分我們也非常關心大概當時這個韌性特別預算是差不多花三年三年度的預算我知道三年但是我們現在跟時間在跑我們沒有趕快及時及時與沒有去做那些產業的話"},{"start":10671.986,"end":10677.329,"text":"他可能很多員工很多產業公司都關門員工就已經解職了所以怎麼還會有400億放在那邊我不應該說不去花應該趕快去跟各部會了解其實去年他們貿易關稅還沒談定的時候我們大家都知道農業是第一波一定會衝擊因為美國那些黃小玉一定是要進來的"},{"start":10694.819,"end":10721.785,"text":"早就應該要處理了怎麼還要放400億在那邊不去跟產業各部位怎麼沒有去跟產業做溝通所以沈縣長我要提醒你這個就是要去跟經濟部底下其實我們沈縣部應該要去了解的地方對 我們有開過這個綠茶院藍綠大家共同通過這個版本給你錢你不去趕快我不要講說不去花你應該好好的趕快去執行什麼還會放在那邊我們都在追了"},{"start":10722.345,"end":10728.629,"text":"我們現在在追他 那個族行曆只有3% 4%啦這些對現在的一個情況影響得到 我會當同意委員的意見所以我們現在已經專案在追 這個族行曆的問題包括那個普發現金啊 應該已經花過很久了都還沒有來再揭報 造成族行曆不是聽好看的"},{"start":10748.7,"end":10768.233,"text":"主席長 沈記長我最後 我不要佔用別人時間其實我認為我們現在很多產業 很多中小企業經營得非常辛苦我們在跟時間賽跑既然立法院大家有共同的共識通過這些任性預算我們應該趕快好好的去花"},{"start":10769.273,"end":10782.905,"text":"不會說還有400億放在那邊不去趕快去救急主席想 沈議長你了解我意思那另外最後就是說我們今年我們今年我本來預估經濟成長大概只有三年五十後來因為貿易關稅談定到7.18但是現在"},{"start":10785.928,"end":10801.163,"text":"大環境又在變動所以我想問一下主計長我們今年的經濟成長後續還會再調整嗎因為現在面對包括美伊的衝突油價的飆升美國接下來有可能會有停滯通膨的問題那我們還會不會再下修我們現在的經濟成長率"},{"start":10806.072,"end":10830.187,"text":"我們是經濟撐拿率是每三個月調整修正我知道我知道還會再下修嗎?我們必須在五月中旬那我們必須看各種狀況來做調整那你認為還會再下修嗎?我現在還沒有辦法去看因為我們一二月整個的一個部分是狀況是還不錯那第二個還必須要看戰爭它是怎麼持續那第三個其實關稅我只是想你不要回答我說"},{"start":10831.127,"end":10841.561,"text":"妳還要再看因為其實做政府就要去做很多的預測妳才知道要對症下藥我們有哪些政府的工具可以去救可以去處理妳現在跟我講說妳不知道我覺得這個答案是不及格"},{"start":10846.227,"end":10869.44,"text":"你現在來講數據還沒有出來我也沒辦法告訴你說大概是但是你一定是跟院長報告你一定會跟院長報告說數字有可能下修所以我們現在各部會要做什麼事情嗎因為數據還沒有出來啦我知道數據還沒有出來但是你可以去做預估嘛是要預估是要那個所以我現在問你說你預估數字會下修還是會上漲好 謝謝你不要不敢講"},{"start":10874.687,"end":10896.706,"text":"好 接著請林思明委員質詢好 謝謝召委我現在請主席長主席長委員好 生日快樂謝謝主席長 OK"},{"start":10903.1,"end":10925.558,"text":"謝謝 謝謝我進入主題待會到我辦公室吃蛋糕小組長 剛才大家很關心我們近期中東的局勢升高如果這個美伊的戰爭擴大最令我們擔心的就是那個荷姆斯海峽被封鎖這個荷姆斯海峽是全球最重要的能源"},{"start":10926.378,"end":10954.093,"text":"的運輸通道全球大約五分之一的石油與天然氣必須經過這條海峽那我國作為海島型的經濟體能源幾乎完全依賴進口所以一旦荷姆斯海峽遭到封鎖的話可能會影響到三個層面第一就是我們能源價格的上漲第二個通膨壓力的上升第三個我們經濟的成長可能會受到拖累"},{"start":10955.234,"end":10981.633,"text":"所以面對每一戰爭所造成的能源價格的上漲通膨也會上升 剛才很多委員都有在關心那我國的GDP成長率預估 今年剛才看到很樂觀7.71%水長依照你現在因為這個不可抗力的因素加進來我國今年的經濟成長率還有這麼樂觀嗎預估你會做怎麼樣的一個下修"},{"start":10982.588,"end":11002.1,"text":"因為我們CSP業者他預估啊其實還是很樂觀啦就是這一個重點那第二個呢其實我會下修主要會針對石油的部分因為石油的部分他如果增加10%我們是下修0.12%嘛那目前以目前我們當初初估的時候是58那現在如果說將近119的話那是成長將近一倍那一倍的話大概成長將近0.8%到9%左右0.8"},{"start":11010.945,"end":11039.99,"text":"那所以這樣子一般的話以這一塊的部分是應該下修因為石油的因素我們就會下修百分之如果是石油的因素的部分這個部分大概會下修這個部分但是其他的部分因為CSP它一直很好而且以一二月的一個狀況出火狀況它還是非常好所以這個狀況就是整個這個第三季所以我說第三季它能修正的也不是很多啦"},{"start":11040.67,"end":11052.94,"text":"局長我想你還是要做滾動式的檢討每一戰爭到底什麼時候會結束我們現在也不知道所以我一個一個分析給你聽石油天然氣會影響整個CPI指數的影響百分之十就影響0.24所以預計大概"},{"start":11062.848,"end":11084.991,"text":"如果說戰爭持續的話大概影響的部分如果天然氣有進口的部分有問題的部分大概影響到百分之二以上百分之二以上所以可能會下修百分之二是不是還是說連那個石油的CPI往上修CPI往上修是是是"},{"start":11085.732,"end":11094.264,"text":"那我想主席講,我看你今年的經濟成長率大幅上修到7.71%比上一次預測3.54%整整上修了4.17個百分點,這個是我們歷年來最大的上修幅度"},{"start":11103.536,"end":11120.371,"text":"我看到你們表示說主要原因是因為台美經貿環境區域你該講的加上AI需求爆發帶動出口與投資使GDP規模將突破1兆美元本席要先表示我們經濟成長當然是好事"},{"start":11121.952,"end":11132.365,"text":"但問題是現在免疫戰爭目前還沒有確切結束的期限不知道什麼時候會結束所以原本的預估勢必會因為免疫戰爭而必須下調我們的經濟成長率另外我們看到台美經貿環境真的趨穩了嗎"},{"start":11141.676,"end":11151.705,"text":"本徐必須提醒面對川普這位大總統的不確定性所以我們不行這麼樂觀還有台美的對等貿易協定ART是否真的會照協定的內容執行"},{"start":11160.652,"end":11176.4,"text":"我想這些還充滿不確定的因素啊所以我們現在時隔34年我國又被納入了301條款的調查國家之一難道這些因素主計總數你都沒有列入這一次你上調到7.71%的評估因素嗎"},{"start":11180.462,"end":11194.767,"text":"剛才講的你們都沒有加入評估因素嗎你這麼樂觀喔中東戰爭我們是還沒有納入啦當初二月中旬的時候還沒有中東戰爭但是因為那時候我現在說撇開嘛就是我剛才講的幾個因素川普的不確定性"},{"start":11195.287,"end":11215.807,"text":"重演的部分那現在縱使是說我那個但是我還是有ART和MOU有訂定所以對我們來講至少有七成以上還是有利的雖然有301條款的一個制約但是對我們來講以目前來講比當前我們在評估的時候還是有利的"},{"start":11217.89,"end":11235.93,"text":"市長 今年的經濟呈現的是高成長穩通膨的格局預測CPI只有1.68% 仍低於2%的警戒線但是剛才很多委員也關心 就是我們民眾的感受"},{"start":11237.151,"end":11254.519,"text":"其實不是這樣我們水電瓦斯都在上漲而且房租在漲另外因為這個美伊戰爭我們所帶來的我們整個這個該講交通費的上漲不管是我們的機票、車票全部都預計都會在這未來幾個月會持續上漲現在就是現在進行式一直在漲"},{"start":11262.262,"end":11289.48,"text":"所以我們許多上幫族族的薪資成長跟不上這些生活成成本啊所以這個這些生活的成本就是這個薪資的上漲幅度太低啊所以沒有辦法落實到每一個人的生活的改善所以我們政府啊要如何的因應這些這個民生的一些問題啊這些油價上漲瓦斯上漲所帶來的這些這個問題政府要如何因應"},{"start":11290.88,"end":11319.706,"text":"這個部分我們大概在行政院的一個物價穩定小組裡面他有折成中油還有台電還有台雪那針對天然瓦斯還有一個石油的這個部分目前是雙凍漲的部分那也盡量希望能夠不要漲那這些中油台電 凍漲之後就要補貼台電對 他們這些補貼的因素將來我們透過對他們的一個增資給予補償因為這些都是屬於政策的因素"},{"start":11320.106,"end":11338.114,"text":"所以到時候要請委員您來多支持那再來就是說我們其他的部分譬如說如果說CPI的一個其他的因素我們也希望經濟部能夠透過其他的對中小企業相關的一個補助能夠讓這個來增低我現在聽到的都是補貼都是用補貼來穩住我們的物價但是我們除了補貼的政策以外"},{"start":11348.479,"end":11364.124,"text":"還有什麼其他更好的方案那其實我也跟委員報告事實上我們最近也在研擬就那個六大社會今天要做一個調整那所以這個部分的這一次調整大概有調整弧度將近23%"},{"start":11366.585,"end":11390.513,"text":"所謂的老農津貼農民年金這些都做調整讓他們整個一個整個津貼幅度往上升大升百分之二十三我想問你的不是這個我說我們除了對於這些中油啦他的虧損用這個去補貼政策去補貼他以外那另外我們真正的有效的能夠這個"},{"start":11392.975,"end":11405.87,"text":"政府除了補貼政策以外真正有效更好的方案你們沒有想過嗎其他的政策工具沒有想過嗎比如說我講一下啦比如說稅制的調整啦"},{"start":11407.719,"end":11431.832,"text":"調降油品的貨物稅還有能源的分散還有能源的轉型貨物稅的一個調整的減增才有貨物稅的減增弧度所以這些政策工具都有在用還有能源的分散比如說我們現在可能就是不是只有跟中東國家來採購油品其他國家也要跟他買"},{"start":11433.153,"end":11455.638,"text":"政經進步的措施我想這些政策工具都要用還有能源政策我們核能的則重啟我想政府都要去思考而不是每次油品上漲我們就靠補貼我想這個都是短期的中長期的因應方式我想政府還是要把它考量進去台電也有在研擬是 謝謝另外我想請問一下我們這個"},{"start":11459.895,"end":11476.291,"text":"平均薪資的問題我想主席講我國大約有七成的勞工領不到平均薪資根據主席總書的專報內容提到去年工業及服務企業全體收工員工每人每月經常薪資平均數為47884元較去年增加了3.09%"},{"start":11482.176,"end":11490.823,"text":"那主要是受惠於哪些產業能夠讓我們每人每月的平均薪資平均數能夠呈現47884元這個數字受惠於哪些產業因為很多勞工領不到這個錢啊"},{"start":11497.41,"end":11512.662,"text":"當然是高科技產業包括金融業資通業科技業跟金融業來拉高所以多數的勞工的經常薪資綜合數還是38406年增率大概3.03%徐局長你是否有統計大約我們有幾成的勞工目前領的是接近這個38406"},{"start":11525.338,"end":11548.218,"text":"大概有幾成的勞工領到這個錢你有沒有統計過五成啦中位數就是五成五成喔其實是七成的勞工領到這個只領到這個錢啦那是平均數我知道平均數是三萬八千但是有七成的勞工他是大概領到這個錢我想你再詳細統計一下最後一個問題請主席給我一分鐘就是我們看到"},{"start":11550.079,"end":11574.808,"text":"這個去年前年2024年的平均薪資是49,060元中位數是38,689元但是去年是前年2024年但是去年我們看到2025年他是剛才我們提到的平均薪資是47,884那個平均的這個那個平均的"},{"start":11577.85,"end":11578.59,"text":"綜會數是38406都比2024年下降具體的原因是什麼"},{"start":11588.533,"end":11602.127,"text":"為什麼2024年我們的平均中位數還有平均月薪比較高2025下降我們是沒有下降是會後我再提供正確的數字給委員好不好我是沒有下降2025是比2024還高的謝謝市民委員那接著請王世堅委員質詢"},{"start":11624.95,"end":11628.452,"text":"謝謝主席 我請主記長好 主記長委員好主記長辛苦了是我每次看到你的報告以後一則已喜 一則已憂是我今天兩個問題要請教你是第一個問題就是說關於我們國家產業結構失衡那這個"},{"start":11651.977,"end":11675.687,"text":"要如何來反映給各部會那行政院各部會大家群策群力想辦法來補救第二點就是說我發現你們所調查的這個房屋租金指數那麼跟實質上還是有差距那這兩個問題我想請教你那麼其實你們"},{"start":11676.994,"end":11684.122,"text":"上個月你們修改了這個經濟預測經濟成長率從3.54你修改到上修到7.71這個很好而且你們認為說我們出口成長會從6.3那上修到22.2%"},{"start":11695.855,"end":11717.595,"text":"上修的幅度超過一千億美元以上這對我們台灣都是好的啦這都是正面的尤其相較於鄰近國家那麼我們的經常站在GDP的比重就是說我們貿易順差的部分明顯高出很多"},{"start":11718.704,"end":11726.509,"text":"像去年我們出口年增率我們台灣是世界第一我們台灣佔了34.9%日本韓國多4%3.8%左右當然也贏過美國跟中國6.0 5.5%這個都是好的都是正面的但是就是關於產業結構的部分"},{"start":11745.629,"end":11761.599,"text":"我們如果列出11項我們主要貨品出口的概況11項產業裡面我們在資通跟視聽產品在電子零組件電機產品光學精密儀器等等這一些包括機械"},{"start":11763.553,"end":11788.382,"text":"這五大項裡面我們是成長的尤其是高科技業 資通 試聽產品這些電子零組件這些我們的成長幅度非常的高但是另外六項傳產行業像橡膠 塑膠行業礦產品 運輸工具化學品 基本金屬等等這些我們傳統產業"},{"start":11791.209,"end":11808.766,"text":"我們不但沒成長 甚至都衰退這個衰退所帶來的影響你看近三年來 我們GDP佔的比重比農林漁牧業我們佔1.51% 微幅成長工業"},{"start":11816.323,"end":11821.969,"text":"微幅下降微幅下降抱歉那工業我們從38.56到43.45我們是成長很大但是服務業59.53降到55.11那降的這個幅度"},{"start":11834.422,"end":11854.903,"text":"有將近5%之多啦所以產業結構的失衡越來越嚴重那產業結構失衡主席長你很清楚就是說我們受惠於高科技產業的這個部分電子製造業的部分我們GDP佔的比重超過15%"},{"start":11857.205,"end":11864.789,"text":"而高科技產業能夠聘僱運用的人力卻只佔勞動人口的6.5%簡單講如果以數字來講一個100億產值的高科技產業可能他三五百人就夠啦"},{"start":11881.445,"end":11906.334,"text":"但是100億產值如果在紡織業 在食品業它可能要兩三千人以上的規模所以這樣子會導致我們失業人口大幅增加那薪水也是薪資大家都曉得我們台灣我們在四小龍裡面我們平均月薪5.6萬5萬6在四小龍裡面我們是墊底的"},{"start":11911.396,"end":11933.135,"text":"我們GDP比日本韓國都高但是我們薪水的中位數卻慘輸他們所以受惠的民眾事實上我們國家出口也成長GDP也成長各方面欣欣向榮但是實質上受惠的民眾並"},{"start":11934.966,"end":11958.353,"text":"不多多數的民眾是無感的甚至因為物價的關係甚至他們是每天在過著辛苦的生活那像失業率而言我剛講的失業率確實啦去年失業率3.35這個是25年來新低這是沒錯可是有一項"},{"start":11959.861,"end":11987.922,"text":"主席長我特別提醒你有一項我們15歲到24歲的年輕人失業率高達11.32年輕人失業率高達11.32是整體我們平均失業率的3.5倍不但高而且高過日本韓國高過日本韓國大概都將近他們的兩倍之多"},{"start":11989.218,"end":12012.841,"text":"所以這個部分主席長我希望你能夠在行政院會裡面協調各部份能夠告知這個詳實的情況提出具體讓他們提出具體的對策去改善這樣可不可以你有沒有發現這個事情的嚴重性產業失衡產業結構失衡的嚴重性越來越嚴重"},{"start":12013.931,"end":12033.117,"text":"是 跟委員報告因為產業是很的確是存在的尤其傳產產業的部分它整個一個它整個一個終端一個需求它是疲弱還有海外它有低價一個競爭所以整個是整個力道成長力道是不足啦所以這個部分我們當然會請經濟部還有國會"},{"start":12036.798,"end":12061.503,"text":"要相關的部會要持續來協助協助他們要整形要升級要提升他們的一個競爭力這才有辦法不然的話傳產的部分他的人力佔了百分之三十嘛那所謂的那個知通就佔百分之六點五而已所以相對的這一個部分是人力的部分那所以他的薪資就會相對的低就會低下來那這一個部分呢我們本身在"},{"start":12063.304,"end":12068.692,"text":"國發會經濟部方面這個部分我們會提供相關的數據給他參考讓他來 主席講國發會經濟部這些部分政策上去調整怎麼樣來協助傳統產業還有一項可以協助的就是說也要"},{"start":12079.167,"end":12085.935,"text":"情商財政部負稅署我們可以在稅負方面給傳統產業優惠嘛尤其農林漁牧產業我們對他們課徵這樣同樣的那些稅率其實是不對的"},{"start":12095.828,"end":12099.33,"text":"農林漁牧還有傳統產業我們至少稅賦上面與時俱進跟著這個情況隨時我們各種經濟狀況的改變產業結構的改變適時的來幫助他們我覺得這最實際"},{"start":12113.556,"end":12133.364,"text":"好不好財政部最難商量了他保守嘛他們很保守保守是對的但是要讓他們知道這個嚴重性那另外就是說房屋指數房屋指數的部分主席長我一直搞不懂我從第一次質詢你到現在你們那個樣本數1480"},{"start":12138.287,"end":12155.938,"text":"就這1480份文文不動啦那其實低估的租金指數等於低估的物價指數嘛因為物價指數CBI裡面房租的物價指數這個權重佔了15.6%耶15.6%我們全國有高達300萬戶出租的房屋結果你只有1480份"},{"start":12167.608,"end":12195.206,"text":"一千五百份都不到的房屋來做你的sample所以這樣出來的指數跟民間調查的不太一樣耶民間現在房租確實漲的幅度有減緩但是還是繼續在漲啊還是繼續在漲那麼我認為啦這個部分在內政部內政部有內政部的統計資料他們有七十一萬份"},{"start":12197.708,"end":12222.825,"text":"71萬份資料甚至台北市啊台北市每一季每一季的採樣都5000份以上台北市而已喔 採樣5000份所以我認為1480份根本完全沒辦法完整真實的表達我們房屋租金它的指數到底是什麼樣"},{"start":12224.042,"end":12250.755,"text":"所以這個部分是不是你可以跟因為內政部很簡單嘛跨部會你找他們情商他那些資料背景其實就可以供給我們主計處來做一個很好的調查不是這樣嗎有這個部分我跟委員報告我們民間的樣本住宅是1500戶啦那社會住宅的部分呢是樣本是3萬戶啦所以整個部分之外我們也有參考"},{"start":12251.656,"end":12266.071,"text":"主席講講你社會住宅的部分樣本數都三分之一社會住宅佔整體我們國家房屋才佔一小部分欸因為它是公務資料該查的你不查 欸它不負責任的"},{"start":12269.876,"end":12285.633,"text":"你該取樣的是那個大塊的不是這樣子嗎就是真的你要大塊的這個部分大多數的房屋不是那個社會住宅嘛那你社會住宅反而取樣那麼多低樓不夠 要多二五樓"},{"start":12288.294,"end":12309.46,"text":"我不是說那個社會住宅的房屋租金指數不重要重要但是他你都能夠取得三萬份了那你為什麼是嘛是嘛所以你說因為是公務資料所以啊我也四個字回你嘛變於形式嘛"},{"start":12310.08,"end":12330.917,"text":"阿又扁扁的 扁扁的阿我現在跟你講 扁扁的齁阿你做早內政部 也是很扁的阿阿他有七十一萬份否則你想想喔以台北市政府的規模他都能做到每一季五千份了我們是中央政府欸你們是主計處欸 欸拜託台北市的財力比我們還優"},{"start":12334.18,"end":12334.741,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請主席長請主席長"},{"start":12356.601,"end":12359.104,"text":"主計總署公佈115年度共同性費用編列基準表"},{"start":12372.222,"end":12392.141,"text":"國內的所有的公共工程有一個編列預算的基準表公共工程的這個部分那離島地區的部分是跟這個表格裡面說明離島地區的部分是按照左列基準就是按照台灣島的這個基準增加百分之三十範圍內編列對吧是三成夠嗎"},{"start":12400.702,"end":12420.79,"text":"這是我們依照工程會他的一個標準來做編列三層是怎麼列出來的這個要問工程會因為我們是所有的標準都是依照工程會他給我們我要講幾個例子齁這個當然已經完工的金門大小就先不說已經招標很多很多次那就先不說那比較大的建設齁"},{"start":12423.17,"end":12448.015,"text":"本島跟離島有很大的差別材料運輸成本金門島沒有產任何東西任何的建物鋼筋水泥建材任何東西都要從台灣運過去不管它是海運或是空運經過裝卸兩次的裝卸從本島的裝船離島的碼頭卸船然後入運每一道都是成本"},{"start":12448.655,"end":12463.933,"text":"那中間還有損耗 這個沒有疑問嘛損耗 還有很多損耗 沿害啊 各方面那觀光這些事實上已經耗盡了這個整個30%的額度這個還不算人工 還不算人工你看喔 這個"},{"start":12465.575,"end":12479.324,"text":"我們知道說你們怎麼算出來你們的依據你不知道你們依據怎麼算你說是工程會但是我們有請教過了你們是哪比如說去年7月間公共工程委員會所做的115年度工程費用"},{"start":12481.205,"end":12499.113,"text":"編列基準表的一般房屋建築費及辦公室翻修費調整的建議報告來說明所以按照你們你們是收集以前的這個例子說以前的這個招標的這個答案所以這個整個造價漲幅大概是增加了9.43%到27.86%所以你們建議還是維持離島加計30%的幅度對吧"},{"start":12507.284,"end":12531.255,"text":"所以我們找到的這個相關資料你們是按照說已經得標了算一算說跟這個計算的這個結果大概多了9%到大概27%所以你們還是覺得應該只建議還是加這個30%的幅度因為主計這邊是要編那個相關的預算一個標準嘛但是你們找到的都是已經得標然後後面動工的這個案子那大家也知道說現在"},{"start":12532.574,"end":12542.295,"text":"如果一旦只標不出去 留標 再留標隨著時間的這個 尤其現在大家都在討論這個通膨啊所以時間過去 越晚標出去 成本事實上"},{"start":12543.856,"end":12559.447,"text":"會越來越高嘛是不是越來越高嘛所以今天標跟明年標這個成本整個不一樣但是你們在編列預算的時候常常會尤其離島地區我就舉一個例子給你聽你看我們金門的這個醫院的長照這個機構這個長照機構當初我那時候在衛房委員會我爭取八千一百萬"},{"start":12568.673,"end":12593.74,"text":"後來從開始爭取到核定這樣過了一年兩年以後開始要標的時候發現八千一百萬完全不夠用所以讓外部也變得一億多然後就開始招標 你看他第一次招標是什麼時候一百一十 你看一下這個表格上面有一百一十四年的三月六號今天是一百一十五年三月份 三月十八號你看 你看他無法決標總共有幾次"},{"start":12594.895,"end":12610.334,"text":"一二三四五六七這個去年111年八九十這個七次來一次更正公告那不算好了七次再加上115年一二三四到現在為止已經流標11次了還沒有標出去"},{"start":12616.328,"end":12631.785,"text":"我只是舉這個案子當作一個例子而已我知道主席是不是說要標什麼大概三次以後沒有絕標沒有絕標以後要重新調整嘛對不對然後再標又三次以後沒有再重新調整再標 再調調調因為你們有一個30%這個嘛"},{"start":12636.88,"end":12661.214,"text":"所以到現在為止十幾次都沒有辦法決標啊離島的工作第一個當然它的成本物料成本就比較高嘛第二個還有一個很大的問題很多人不願意到離島去這個做工啦那個做工的人不容易找到在本島比較容易找到那加上大家知道現在台積電到處在現金搶工人在本島本來就有很好的這個價錢來找這些工人所以"},{"start":12661.974,"end":12683.582,"text":"除了要離鄉背井以外專業人士不管是哪一類模板鋼筋各類的專業設計各方面人才找不到人以外那錢如果又沒有比台積電要發現金你根本所有案子都標不出去這不是唯一的案子這是很多很多的案子我們現在很多工程都標不出去就爭取多少預算也沒有用"},{"start":12684.778,"end":12709.763,"text":"最終仍然還是價錢不好那當你價錢不好你現在標三次流標再三次流標這樣整整光照標就已經照標了一年了從114年的3月6號到現在已經100今年已經是3月10幾號了已經整整照標一年都標不出去了你們已經調整三次價錢都照標不出去了所以你們不覺得你們應該想一下為什麼會這樣子嗎真的沒有人要做就是因為價錢不好嘛主席長"},{"start":12716.105,"end":12744.697,"text":"我不是針對他的案子啦我真的是一個整體的這個情形因為這個不是唯一的案子啊基本現在很多的重大工程都找不到人做啊價錢賣嘛本島如果可以做沒有人要到里島去做啊那我們當地也沒那麼多工人那我們的確有這些需求嘛當然還有其他港部建設啊各方各面都一樣現在所有的案子都面臨這個情形啊一標標一年然後成本又變更高一年後標不出去成本又更高永遠標不出去啊"},{"start":12747.014,"end":12770.712,"text":"所以旅遊標就變成一個常態啊還有大家也知道你們編例預算你們都會先仿那個民間一些價錢嘛對不對你們會有做一些仿價一些動作對 但你們仿價都是落後的啊你們那個仿價的在達到答案在出來的時候那時候價錢已經跟市場上又不一樣啦因為你們做完 譬如說你們去年做仿價今年要編這個預算的時候事實上已經落後了嘛對不對 這個是事實吧"},{"start":12771.701,"end":12794.205,"text":"主席這樣這是事實嘛那當你拿出那個落後的價錢就比較少的價錢來編列預算後又標不出去一標再標三標標到十二標已經用一年了所以你們這個整個原物料的這個價錢還不算能工原物料竟然就已經落後兩三年了永遠標不出去本島有時候如果說在島內大家還願意做就沒有人要到外島去工作根本就是沒辦法做"},{"start":12797.717,"end":12823.057,"text":"所以這個問題現在在至少在金門市非常嚴重我想馬祖也應該也是都一樣啊 是對吧 普遍性在外島都很嚴重那我們也想要建設發展嘛也想要說也要想說這個既然爭取到預算就是要做要做這些的確也是有必有需求才會提出來嘛但是現在就很多很多我想你如果去查一下金門市現在好多案子都還有後面打算要招票案子我們都覺得可能會沒有人來做"},{"start":12824.337,"end":12833.54,"text":"自己再多預算回去也沒有辦法有什麼結果政府需要的建設民間需要的這種像比如說你看這個長照機構多重要啊一標標了12次啊我看再標一年也標不出去怎麼做呢 有什麼想法呢"},{"start":12844.467,"end":12860.889,"text":"報告委員這個部分因為我們主要是參考工程會去做查訪相關的指標是落後指標所以我們要把這個問題反映給工程會然後請工程會重新來訂定新的"},{"start":12861.329,"end":12881.875,"text":"你們可不可以有比較主動積極的做法因為工程會長會說主計事就是規定 主計處就是規定這麼多不能顛戴說法令啊我們比較被動是接受工程會然後我們才訂定這個標準那這個部分我們主動來聯繫工程會然後跟他研商先針對這個部分要怎麼解決"},{"start":12882.495,"end":12901.763,"text":"我不是針對這個案子因為案子真的很多不是一件兩件還有離島整個將來要怎麼樣訂請工程會來嚴定然後我們直接發布因為我們是根據工程會訂的部分你們是根據工程會我如果問工程會他們會說這個組計就是這樣有一個規定我就不能超過多少大家都聽組計數的"},{"start":12903.304,"end":12928.53,"text":"所以我們沒有這方面的專業你今天聽到這個訊息了那我想說你們是不是會同工程會建立一個離島的營建指標因為它的確跟本島是不一樣的物料也好 能工也好那個時間各方面都完全不一樣所以不然我們的案子不是只有這個案子很多離島的建設都沒有辦法往前推進長照啊 不管是長照也好 港布啊 各方面都一樣"},{"start":12929.73,"end":12946.059,"text":"嗯好不好那你是不是可以在一個月內這個提出這個相關的一些報告出來給我第一個首先是針對這個案子你們主動好不好你主動牽頭跟工程會來做好不好我不是針對這個案子這個案子已經標了一年了我們再針對116年度請他提出"},{"start":12950.021,"end":12970.877,"text":"以後的案子 以後到底離島的工址各樣的建設 到底它的標準是不是應該要怎麼樣單價各方面是不是有一個提高的方法或什麼好的建議你們主動來跟工程會我們也轉給工程會來做什麼時候給我這個答案可以給我我們盡快盡快是多久"},{"start":12972.333,"end":12977.617,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進 列席的政府監事長 官員會長 公眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生 邀請我們陳主席長好 主席長"},{"start":13004.092,"end":13012.403,"text":"主席好,聽說今天有個玉山論壇開幕,你有沒有聽說?玉山論壇,我們總統副總統,第九屆了,是我們小英總統在十年前所創立的。"},{"start":13021.357,"end":13039.205,"text":"是不太了解我來介紹一下今年我們要請到波蘭的前總統華勒莎來那大概有22個國家70多位各國的代表參加但你有個概念啦你覺得像這樣的育成論壇促進台灣跟國際的交往和能見度有沒有幫助"},{"start":13040.612,"end":13066.483,"text":"有吧?你可以點頭回答了嗎?我這樣很簡單的問題啊,你緊張什麼?是,謝謝!對,所以呢,但是呢,我給你看到照片這個呢,是剛好上週我去參加一個,2026年,從2016年開始一個印度瑞辛納對話,這也是個論壇,有超過110個國家,700多個代表參加,其中我可以見證,台海局勢是各國所關切的,"},{"start":13067.023,"end":13088.806,"text":"包括一些軍事將領都參加了那我們也跟國會印度的國務委員交流了你覺得自己辦玉山論壇要花相當的經費別人印度辦了我們派人去參加你覺得是不是兩者都很有效益是是很有效益嘛好那我們來看一下那你過去過的人有沒有去過印度沒有沒有你會不會私人度假想去印度"},{"start":13090.489,"end":13101.915,"text":"通常大多數的國人跟我去之前一樣印度這個地方好像很神秘有很多偉大的建築但是呢除非你有特別的興趣大概你不會是第一選項你下次出國會去印度嗎"},{"start":13103.22,"end":13129.853,"text":"不會不會啦很好時所以呢我們都知道台灣不容易台灣目前啊 駐外的管處呢有多達111個遍佈那麼多國家有些國家相對的很艱困但是呢有些國家很小像我兩個星期前去帛琉只派了三個人他根據邦交關係政治因素分成五個規模我知道外交部有編列駐外人員的家籍請問這個家籍是不是主計總書要核定"},{"start":13131.653,"end":13156.652,"text":"是不是根據這五個級數來分的 還是根據其他的方式來分是人事總署定的 跟主計總署無關好 那這樣子我覺得也很有道理啦但是我希望你可以給人事總署一個建議今天特別請你來就是說那麼我們認為 你認為像這樣的駐地的人員加擠要考量哪些因素"},{"start":13160.166,"end":13162.577,"text":"因為你回答我我就會告訴那個人事長"},{"start":13164.205,"end":13193.265,"text":"國外的一個物價啦物價水準因為派駐的人員要考慮他的支出嘛因為你們主計總署在歸管什麼用度的嘛對是不是這樣子是那還要考慮什麼治安的問題啊艱困的程度有些地方很艱困你們要調高這個艱困加急外交人員不太想去不太敢去好那這個大麥克指數我們剛剛看了一下瑞士、瑞典、印尼、印度差別很大那麼你看印度跟瑞士的物價差異有3.7倍你覺得"},{"start":13194.265,"end":13223.061,"text":"那麼這兩個國家的住外人員加息會不會差到3.7倍你判斷一下你認為有3.7倍合不合理又不是你管的問題很客觀嘛應該沒有差到3.7倍但是合理上應該有這樣的一個range啦你也支持很好因為未來人事總署跟你或者外交部跟你要錢的時候呢你就要答應了來往下看來你猜猜看硬貨的首都新德里夢買辦事處青奈電子高業產產季你認為這三個地方的物價指數會不會一樣"},{"start":13224.651,"end":13253.994,"text":"物價水準不一樣新的歷史首府非常的貴孟買寺都會區也不便宜親愛的鄉村的物價落差大那你知道嗎目前外交部跟人種核給他們的地域加擠是一樣的你覺得這樣合理嗎不合理那如果未來人種或者是外交部希望說這些地區因應的堅固程度跟物價指數來作為調整主計總督支不支持我們支持"},{"start":13254.625,"end":13276.856,"text":"支持 很好 那今天我們很快就得到答案了來 那請教一下 你知道我們國內的地域家籍有分過三級嗎你是公務人員嘛 你有沒有領過地域家籍過沒有沒有 我曾經在澎湖任過公職 所以我知道澎湖地區有家籍你認為澎湖要不要有家籍 離島要不要有家籍要"},{"start":13277.718,"end":13293.102,"text":"園鄉山區要不要加擠這些加擠的目的是什麼因為交通生活不便嘛有點像艱困的意思啦對不對但是你知道我們全國的公務員的薪水有沒有一樣有沒有因為我在台北或在屏東物價水準不同我的薪水比較高或比較低有沒有"},{"start":13294.431,"end":13310.888,"text":"沒有 所以台灣的地域加擠考量的是什麼 艱困程度 生活不便程度但是珠寶雅雲又不同喔 它被拍到哪個國家 哪個城市 消費水準如何不是它能決定的 對不對所以外交部如果報請行政院核定加擠的時候 主計總署會不會來協助"},{"start":13313.317,"end":13341.568,"text":"會好 那我就今天先問了你那我下次又問人事長說他支不支持我們對於這些為我們國家拼外交的人員依據這些各地城市的生活物價以及監管程度適度的給予不同差距的住外家籍好不好很好 你可以大聲一點好很好 那我就跟任總來講也會跟外交部長講最後行政院編預算的時候主計長你要支持喔好謝謝"},{"start":13345.541,"end":13366.338,"text":"謝謝嘉賓接著我們請楊瓊英 楊瓊英 楊瓊英委員王紅薇 王紅薇 王紅薇委員不在鄭振琴 鄭振琴 鄭振琴委員不在陳培宇 陳培宇 陳培宇委員不在鄭天才 鄭天才 鄭天才委員不在"},{"start":13367.279,"end":13386.977,"text":"今天登記花園的委員經已詢答完畢那本次的會議做成如下的決議報告跟詢答完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關的部會在一週內以書面答覆另外委員要求期限者從期鎖定"},{"start":13388.118,"end":13408.684,"text":"委員楊瓊英所提的書面執行列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆本次的會議議程已進行完畢如果有不在場的委員提補書面的一個執行一併列入紀錄刊登公報並請醫事人員協助處理散會"},{"start":13418.963,"end":13419.163,"text":"包心菜"}]}},{"id":"167522","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167522","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f60bebc809c00545ee0bc6757ec415edbefe91a9b467d8c7caa70d2b13d237a2c95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"11:55:33 - 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召委我們請副部長請副部長黃委員好副部長好上禮拜五立法院有通過可以授權你們去簽那個發駕書簽了嗎是什麼時候簽的在他們加班是在禮拜"},{"start":27.025,"end":36.841,"text":"禮拜六的晚上好像特別加班就送到這個美國這個這個駐美軍協組就四分都簽了四分都簽了"},{"start":40.961,"end":64.969,"text":"發價書的這個部分我們在上個禮拜五大院同意我們簽署之後我們就已經立即知會美方那AITT這邊在上個禮拜就已經啟動程序所以我們這個3月15號的這個效期已經沒有問題好那之前還有一個3月底的這個什麼要付款的那個"},{"start":67.841,"end":94.519,"text":"這個部分要跟委員報告稍微說明一下程序就是我們通知美方進行發架書的作業程序之後會由美國在台協會台北辦事處這邊完成我們已經提供的發架書內容的最後審核遞交給美國國防安和局然後做確認確認完之後再交給美國在台協會的華府辦公室跟我們駐美代表處來進行簽署"},{"start":96.34,"end":122.349,"text":"所以這個部分應該會所有的程序應該會在本週左右會完成好所以立法院能夠處理的現在對你們來說沒有困擾了是就世界下就是條例跟預算了是就剩下這個嘛對不對是確定了是好第二個今天這個報告裡頭有提到這個關於伊朗的這件事情請問這個副部長"},{"start":125.296,"end":133.445,"text":"這個美伊在打的時候啊你們會事先能夠預判伊朗會用什麼回擊美國會用什麼打嗎"},{"start":135.532,"end":155.571,"text":"這一個目前的整個美國跟伊朗的整個攻擊的方式就現在來看當然掀起都以比較這個威力強大精準的沒有說有沒有超乎你們意料目前來看是因為戰爭的發生當然我們不太能夠預期他在什麼時候會發生我都講武器啦"},{"start":156.031,"end":178.392,"text":"現在武器的運用上面是如我們所預判沒有錯那這個是全世界都會知道的事全世界的軍方大概都判斷雙方會用什麼來交火對目前的戰爭形態大致上是這好那台灣如果跟這個就是中國啊中國要打台灣的時候你們也可以預判他大概用什麼打"},{"start":180.623,"end":207.854,"text":"因為有些牽涉到機密,但是簡單跟委員說明就是說知道,因為他聯合火力打擊的階段基本上他會用導彈、巡弋飛彈以及他原火部隊來實施大規模的攻襲你們報告裡頭有提到你們要處理高中低三層防禦體系這三層防禦體系按照目前中華民國的"},{"start":208.72,"end":212.922,"text":"這個武器的雙倍啊高中低分別缺什麼"},{"start":221.001,"end":239.182,"text":"如同委員剛剛所指導的,我們首先要去注意中共近幾年在武力上的發展所以它不管是在導彈還有遠程火箭,在這幾年的數量上對周邊還有在演習上都形成極具的威脅"},{"start":239.983,"end":267.429,"text":"那因此我們國軍在多年的這個艦軍備戰下當然在防空武器系統各項的主被動的措施都已經逐年在建置但是考量到中共的威脅不斷的驟增之下因此我們需要台灣之盾分別從低空高三個層次來去建立一個能夠高度感知分層防禦跟有效攔截的整體系統才能夠因應它不斷劇增的威脅"},{"start":269.909,"end":274.793,"text":"那這三個分別缺什麼不好講是吧"},{"start":275.851,"end":299.5,"text":"所以這當然在這個特別預算的審查裡面我們會去做說明簡單跟委員包括就是後續我們會因為這要區分硬體跟軟體兩個部分來做檢查意思就是說這個1.25兆的這個條例如果進行相關的審查包括後面預算的審查大概就可以看得出國軍現在對"},{"start":301.061,"end":319.553,"text":"低中高這個防禦體系大概缺什麼對那也可以看得出這三層防禦體系之間的整合缺什麼對就是剛剛跟委員報告中間有包含到軟體戰場管理系統整合的部分因為你們現在都講得很籠統嘛"},{"start":320.97,"end":347.871,"text":"也不能講得太清楚所以你們現在有把握這1.25兆建制完成之後我們到底動會不會動我們會朝這個方向努力現在來看這整個建制的目標我們努力來達成好那接下來講這個無人機就是說這個有沒有比較低成本的無人機阿強阿勇低成本無人機打我們的時候我們要怎麼反制"},{"start":349.395,"end":374.597,"text":"我簡單跟委員報告,因為它這個低成本的無人機簡單說剛剛又跟前面的委員做完研討它運用的方式基本上它會在海上用這個船來放置的方式因為它的航程不是那麼的遠所以它可能用海上施放或者登陸之後所以剛剛那個我記得防人委員嘛你就打海上一隻船就好了"},{"start":375.547,"end":404.47,"text":"目前我們在已經有做相關的規劃說我們在7月份成立了濱海作戰指揮部裡面有整合相關無人機跟反彈的能量能夠有效的對敵人的這個海上的這個船艦的攻擊上面做一個做一個這個裝備他對他發動大量的攻擊消耗我們啊我們叫防禦嘛對防禦我們也被消耗啊我們能夠被他消耗多久"},{"start":406.854,"end":430.572,"text":"所以我們檢討這一個我們有區分兩塊一個部分是主動反制第二個是被動防禦那主動反制的部分辦到我們現在後續準備要建置的這個低成本的這個防洪武器或是我們現在建置的這個固定的以及被固定是機動型的一個反制的一個C型式的反制無人機的一個這都在1.2兆里頭"},{"start":433.249,"end":447.046,"text":"這個都在E點都有照裡頭目前都有在建置在相關的這個細節裡面包含到無人載具跟反制系統裡面都有在第三項裡面做規劃還是會在本來的年度預算就有這些"},{"start":448.103,"end":469.393,"text":"目前因為他必須要雙軌並行就是說我們現在的反制系統其實我們的軍事預算裡面已經有建制在固定支出但是他沒辦法因應那麼大規模的一個反制武器的一個建制所以特別需要特別預算來做支持OK好那在這報告裡頭啊有幾個用字啊這個請你們說明一下你說"},{"start":470.475,"end":486.487,"text":"在現有飛彈的技術基礎上,研製及籌貨可執行遠程火箭彈攔截至低成本防空武器你們用的文字叫研製及籌貨,這看起來應該現在沒有現在已經有在,因為這個是"},{"start":493.305,"end":512.344,"text":"包委員我們現在是有能力但是為了能夠達到低成本我們不要用這個不管是現行的防空系統去浪費我們的國防預算好OK那我懂那第二個你們也提到說你們要同步籌購及部署右標假木"},{"start":513.525,"end":523.302,"text":"右標假目標衛星定位干擾等等等等等你們用的文字還是籌購跟部署代表這個現在沒有對不對"},{"start":525.909,"end":549.911,"text":"現在已經有在做辦到我們的這個偽裝碗矯型的反射器還有我們現在電子衛星的干擾系統現在其實已經有在建置當中但是它的數量不足以因應我們要滿足那麼多的一個軍事設施以及政府的關鍵基礎設施所以我們必須要後續持續來籌建也藉由這個預算來支撐"},{"start":551.132,"end":576.11,"text":"也都在這個特別條例裡頭是就是剛提到這些所謂的籌購及部署這個概念是說現在不夠對然後要增加是那增加包括用買的跟包括中科院自己去做的是所以需要這個特別條例然後需要這個1.25兆來把這一塊補足是也包含在這個裡面"},{"start":577.554,"end":592.559,"text":"那我請問一下,如果沒有這一點的護照,像在美國跟伊朗這一場戰役裡頭,哪一件事情就會發生在台灣?現在媒體報導說這個伊朗美國的飛機飛彈飛進去,伊朗都站在那裡,不知道發生什麼事,就叫他們打,那台灣會不會這樣?"},{"start":598.992,"end":619.238,"text":"當然我們現在持續在精進我們的建軍備案工作固定的國防預算可以勉勵去維持我們現在的軍事能力但是我們要考量的就是說因應未來的戰爭確實有必要一次性的來提升國軍的戰力也能夠兼顧到政府跟"},{"start":621.018,"end":645.708,"text":"這個社會在關鍵基礎設施運作在戰爭當中能夠正常運作最重要的是我們也希望能夠保障台灣人民的生活財產的安全所以希望一次性的能夠提升這樣的一個戰力我想這個固定的國防預算跟我們現在的這個特別預算能夠雙軌並行能夠很迅速的提升我們國軍的戰力也同時藉由各種的"},{"start":646.368,"end":674.47,"text":"方式讓國軍的人才能夠水準能夠提升這種雙軌並行來提升我們國防的好 謝謝副部長也期待你們接下來趕快跟這個國民黨立委好好溝通把這個嚴重性 重要性不管公開溝通 私底下溝通都請這個國民黨跟民眾黨的立委多多協助讓我們這個特別條例跟後續相關的預算能夠儘早通過好 謝謝謝偉"}]}},{"id":"167520","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167520","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6eb22d2420018012b0bc6757ec415edbebfd7ce027fbc82e039797466756a34355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:48:40 - 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我們有請那個主委跟檔案局局長國安會主 葉主委 檔案局局長我的我的委員長"},{"start":26.228,"end":45.249,"text":"主委先想跟主委請教就是關於促轉基金的議題我想主委這邊應該知道說我們的民間禁用平台已經上線了那其實從我自己2024年進來的第一個會期就開始一直關注這件事情那也非常感謝就是在國防會還有我們檔案局的努力之下"},{"start":45.669,"end":68.695,"text":"我們現在上線那目前呢我自己其實已經問了一些有申請的民間夥伴大家都對這個評價是蠻好的包含申請的流程非常的清晰然後送件之後也有專人來電確認資料是否正確所以基本上對於已經知道這個資訊的夥伴來說這個政策是很好的但是但是但是他們為什麼知道這件事情呢其實是我告訴他們的"},{"start":70.135,"end":93.282,"text":"為什麼因為我發現我們在整個初轉基金的宣傳上面值得再加強因為我們基本上只有在國發及國發會上面有宣傳然後行政院發言人有講一句話檔案局自己最高流量的粉絲頁竟然完全沒有這一篇的露出所以我想我們現在申請進度第一波已經到了20件的確算不錯21啦21好"},{"start":96.383,"end":125.638,"text":"但是如果我們沒有持續更多的宣傳我們就沒有辦法加入新的團體新的個人讓這件事情突破同溫層所以我不曉得說主委您對這件事情的看法上面我們在宣傳上面還能夠怎麼再加強這個部分我會請那一個局長這一邊把相關的資訊可以大家在官網上面的話我們可以有一個區域我想除了因為現在官網是有公告但是我們在粉絲頁因為檔案局的粉絲頁其實流量是蠻高的可是在粉絲頁我上面是完全沒有找到"},{"start":127.42,"end":153.09,"text":"對對對 會在FB上面會放除了臉書上面 不只FB啦像Trade上面也可以放我想說這件事情另外還有就是說我這些來申請的一些團體呢是之前其實有參加說明會的可是這些說明是這個更離譜的地方就在於說他明明有參加說明會可是他竟然資訊是從我這邊得到也就是說我們連那一波說明會的團體有沒有告知都是一個問號是有告知嗎"},{"start":156.499,"end":174.807,"text":"我們是有含有含發學校跟團體啦只是說可是當時參加說明會的因為當時我們在整個這個是有因為我問了好幾個他們都說他們不知道這件事情所以我想這部分是不是還可以怎麼樣再多做宣傳好不好那所以後面的那一個宣傳段就是說我們除了宋志華可能還在在在"},{"start":175.287,"end":190.458,"text":"目前是投件之後服務非常好可是宣傳如何讓更多的人可以知道這件事情我覺得這是要再強化的所以我想另外可能也會鼓勵就投件的人可以也幫我們廣就是周知一下"},{"start":191.258,"end":213.317,"text":"當然我想這大家應該是公司協力啦因為我想國發會過去以來不管是地方創生也好或是這個新創計畫大家都跟我們講說這個國發會做得非常好也就是說國發會有這個專業去串聯民間跟政府這個部分所以我希望這個部分也要一起努力放在促轉基金上面所以接下來會怎麼樣宣傳這是不是可以給我一個簡單的報告好不好那大家什麼時候可以給我"},{"start":215.398,"end":220.059,"text":"我希望就是說我們在目前呢接下來進來的這個初短基金的申請案件上面我們應該都要有一些統計數"},{"start":235.903,"end":259.324,"text":"也就是說我們是不是可以透過一些統計可能是年齡的統計或是性別統計或者是說他是單團體或是個人等等的我們要做一個詳盡的資訊去了解我們有沒有跨出同溫層也就是這個追蹤的機制這個部分也希望一併建立那一併在報告上面詳述好嗎因為我們目前只有金額啦但我想委員的建議我們可以我們可以再做對對對我們會盡盡"},{"start":261.15,"end":279.163,"text":"對因為我們希望就是說除了金額之外我們還是希望跨出圈嘛對不對出圈這件事情就需要做一些統計嘛那瞭解我們到底有沒有出圈那沒有出圈我們到底在哪裡改進所以這需要一些統計的數字那最後一件事情就是說就是有關於檔案局這個政黨所持有的檔案"},{"start":280.544,"end":303.314,"text":"目前我從這個114年的轉型正義的這個成果報告在截止到去年12月31號我看到就在政治檔案的政黨所持有的檔案上面呢我們是已經有提議喊請國民黨提出檔案但是在12月的時候呢我們要辦理實地調查的時候呢國民黨說他們沒有辦法配合那上面的說明是告訴我們說115年的1月會繼續調查那我不曉得這個繼續調查是什麼樣子的形式是不是可以簡單說明一下"},{"start":309.178,"end":328.092,"text":"基本上我們從114年的9月到115年2月我們都多次的喊請國民黨提出檔案及配合到庫房的調查但他們都一直以說他們有選舉的理由一直在延遲這樣子所以我們現在目前的情況就是我們會再做最後一次的發函假如說他們還沒"},{"start":329.053,"end":358.213,"text":"不配合的話那我們會開始思考就是說採取所謂的行政法我想這件事情非常的急迫最主要就是說這批檔案過去已經有傳出泡水發霉重築等等的這種劣化的情況甚至只有用垃圾袋分裝隔離那保存的環境非常非常的惡劣那如果我們再不積極及時的介入的話我們這些檔案可能都會受損那這些受損的檔案呢可能會影響到我們對於威權歷史的理解也會"},{"start":359.253,"end":377.795,"text":"也會讓對於這個責任的歸屬釐清也會受到影響所以我們是不是在這個檔案局局長是有什麼對這件事情是有什麼我跟他在想說我們什麼時候發函那個局長是跟我講說那個公文已經跨到我這邊所以我借到公文的話我大概就會開始做處理"},{"start":378.496,"end":400.63,"text":"好所以我剛剛聽到是說我們會發最後一次函預計是在什麼時候會發最後一次函呢大概是近期大概是這個禮拜這個禮拜會發函那這個函這個沒有因為其實在促轉條例我們是可以強制的到我們是可以到縣地做調查的我想這個應該是非常清楚的所以我是希望我們可以有更積極的作為那這個發函的時候是不是也可以付本給我們讓我們知道謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167532","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167532","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f6fd0af37355166f2c0bc6757ec415edbe8a44427a9e2c0cfa0c81ff874c24f3695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱議瑩","委員發言時間":"09:21:01 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謝謝主席 我請一下主委請國會議員主委"},{"start":14.707,"end":39.942,"text":"主委早主委早所以我想這個剛剛聆聽了您的這個施政報告我想這個還是感到佩服國發會其實業務包山包海那這個從科技管到體育管到交通管到農業各方面都管講到體育的部分這個主委我請教一下您看棒球嗎看棒球看嗎看了看了你是棒球迷嗎"},{"start":43.372,"end":62.002,"text":"應該算是 但投入的程度可能沒有非常的投入我想這個上個禮拜 或者是一直到今天為止全世界都在封WBC那台灣英雄到日本去比賽的幾個場次我相信主委您應該或多或少都會看了一下"},{"start":63.163,"end":78.003,"text":"在这一次的比赛当中,其实台湾队里头有一个非常重要的选手叫做Stu Future,他的妈妈是台湾人,所以他被我们职棒的蔡会长延揽到台湾队来代表台湾出赛。"},{"start":78.516,"end":98.572,"text":"那表現非常的優異那比賽完 在比賽的過程裡頭其實就有非常多的網友一直在敲碗說這個趕快要給Future台灣的健保卡那要給台灣的身分證但是這些東西還沒有拿到以前我想國發會率先就提出了要給Future台灣的就業金卡"},{"start":99.532,"end":123.381,"text":"這個我也想要來跟國發會來討論一下我們的就業金卡其實實施到現在從2018年實施到現在為止我們的有效持卡人大概是8318人但是主要的持卡人的領域大概還是以經濟教育科技為主在體育的部分其實只有佔了25件這個比例相對來講是非常的少"},{"start":127.583,"end":151.299,"text":"我想請教一下國發會基於什麼樣的理由或者是基於什麼樣的考量你們對於Fairchild希望能夠發給他就業金卡有沒有是因為他在這個比賽裡頭表現優異還是說你們未來在所謂的體育領域上面的就業金卡的發放"},{"start":152.159,"end":178.748,"text":"或是審核有沒有一個標準或者是有沒有建立一個機制第二個問題我想請教就是說未來在體育項目我們的人才延攬的部分國發會有沒有一個專案計畫或者是說有沒有跟運動部去進行過討論未來我們在體育人才的延攬上面跟運動部有沒有什麼合作的計畫 來 主委"},{"start":180.488,"end":193.751,"text":"就委員的第一個問題來講的話就是說我們對於每一個領域他都會有一個審查的要點就那個Fairchild這個部分來講的話我們會協同運動部針對運動領域的第四點由職業運動聯盟或運動團體推薦然後據產業貢獻潛力的話會主動邀請他申請那個就業金卡"},{"start":204.614,"end":217.569,"text":"所以他還是要來申請你們是邀請他來申請還是你們要主動發一個就業人機卡我們已經主動跟運動部那邊聯絡了那也把一些申請的一些文件都已經給運動部"},{"start":220.552,"end":237.463,"text":"好 你一次就回答了我兩個問題其實這個跟運動部其實是有做過討論但我要提的是說台灣其實現在的整個體育的發展已經在蓬勃的進展當中不只是棒球 籃球 甚至羽球或者是有很多的項目"},{"start":238.283,"end":251.216,"text":"更或甚至不只是選手連教練或者是他們的防護員等等他其實是一個產業鏈的所以像這些東西是不是國發會也能夠持續的跟運動部來進行更多的討論"},{"start":254.719,"end":276.955,"text":"或者甚或是我們的國訓中心大概也會需要很多類似這樣的一些教練等級或者是防護員等級是不是也能夠提供給他們這樣子的一個就業金塔我覺得我認為這是對他們來講是一種honor也是對台灣的選手的另外一種職業的保障訓練上面的保障您同意我的看法嗎"},{"start":277.395,"end":292.7,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們目前也在跟運動部接洽就是說我們其實有百億的主題式的百億基金我們也在跟邀請某個程度來講邀請運動部來申請這樣的一個主題式的百億基金那這樣一個百億基金的話"},{"start":293.6,"end":317.979,"text":"運動部就可以開始規劃他要用什麼樣的一個計畫來針對教練針對防護員針對什麼樣的一個譬如說整個運動產業鏈上面哪一個關節他覺得必須要有資金挹注的話那都可以經由這樣的一個主題式的百億基金來做一個資金的一個挹注這樣子好 我希望在這個部分上面我期許國發會能夠更積極主動一點"},{"start":321.101,"end":342.29,"text":"那第二個問題我要請教的在您剛剛的報告裡頭其實您談到了五大信賴產業我比較有興趣的是在這五大信賴產業裡面我們講的半導體人工智慧什麼次世代通訊安全控制等等其實這個大家都一直在談很特別是你們今天談到了一個軍工產業"},{"start":344.591,"end":359.33,"text":"這個軍工產業就是所謂的無人機的發展計畫但我覺得比較可惜就是說在國發會的報告裡面對於軍工產業對無人機的發展計畫只有短短的幾行字主委我想請教"},{"start":360.629,"end":383.278,"text":"五大信賴產業裡頭您在軍工的這個發展的比重上面會佔多少無人機的運用現在大家最廣為人所知的是運用在戰爭上面不對等的作戰烏克蘭的戰爭我想很多包括這個媒體都有寫台灣製造的無人機出口暴增而且是流向二烏戰爭"},{"start":386.394,"end":408.208,"text":"除掉了戰爭的這個因素以外其實無人機的運用場域可說非常的廣包括我們在農業上面的無人機噴藥或者是在醫療上面的用無人機去送藥無人機的救援等等甚或是在昨天結束的嘉義燈會用無人機點亮了嘉義的夜空"},{"start":409.491,"end":434.879,"text":"所以整個無人機它不只是在軍工產業上面我認為它是在整個無人載具的發展上面我想知道到底國發會要用多少的比例多少的心去協助或者是去扶植這樣的一個產業起來那不對等的作戰其實在武器的構制上面台灣面臨的非常大的困難"},{"start":435.879,"end":442.844,"text":"不只是對外買軍購困難甚至連在台灣自己在國會裡頭都被處處執軸所以在軍工產業的發展上面國發會應該要怎麼樣做協助"},{"start":449.417,"end":456.446,"text":"就軍工產業這個部分來講,我先跟委員分享無人機這個部分來講,我們的產值,2028年預估要達到產值大概有300億2028年嗎?2028年,對,2028年預估,今年預計會到200億"},{"start":467.461,"end":476.729,"text":"那我們也會配合的整個國際的情勢比如說像美國現在正在推所謂的非紅供應鏈尤其是在無人機這塊那我們也會努力的透過經濟部的一些輔導專案讓台灣的那個無人機的產業能夠在台灣落地生根以及增加它出口的產能因為非紅供應鏈這塊的市場其實相當大就好像委員剛才有提到就是說我們"},{"start":494.665,"end":510.826,"text":"無人機的出口暴震的大概35倍主要都流向惡物戰爭那以未來的話其他的一些應用端上面來講就好像委員講到他可以用在農業上面他可以用在防洪防災上面那這個部分來講的話至於比例我現在沒有辦法跟委員"},{"start":511.567,"end":531.061,"text":"保證但是整個的發展以及焦點我們會放在這個部分同時我們也很我們也在關注整個軍工產業的發展不管是在日本或是以色列我們希望都透過所謂的創投的這樣的一個基金去挹注他然後去得到一些關鍵關鍵性的一些技術跟零件"},{"start":531.882,"end":542.479,"text":"謝謝主委的回答因為時間到了我就不耽誤但是我想私下我想還要再繼續請教一下主委對於這個產業我們的輔導方向跟我們能夠提供的協助方向好不好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"17272","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17272","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2ddc5f31f4729d12f57db068076667a51b157d0edf07c12ea66fdf5fbe0bc4a7d05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-03-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「借鏡近期美國與伊朗衝突，檢討我國防空反飛彈系統效能、低成本攔截手段及無人機反制能量」，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-03-16","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-03-16T08:35:31+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-16T12:55:00+08:00","duration":15569,"影片長度":"04:19:29","委員發言時間":"08:35:31 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紅蘿301會議室出席委員陳永康等15人 主席馬偉榮 文君報告四 想依本院人事處體報院會官員立法院第11屆第5會期各委員會召集委員選舉時間地點表夜經本院第11屆第5會期第一次會議決定照案通過二 宣讀本院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會召集委員選舉人名單"},{"start":1536.535,"end":1559.719,"text":"選舉四項選舉本院第十一屆第五會期本會召集委員案主席宣告依中國國民黨民主進步黨黨團之書面推舉及台灣民眾黨王委員安詳對推選方式之書面同意推選馬委員文君陳委員冠廷二人為本院第十一屆第五會期本會召集委員宣讀完畢"},{"start":1564.271,"end":1589.717,"text":"請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有遺漏錯誤需要更正之處沒有我們議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告借鏡近期美國與伊朗衝突檢討我國防空反飛彈系統效能低成本難解手段及無人機反制能量並被質詢宣讀完畢"},{"start":1596.089,"end":1620.922,"text":"我們現在介紹在場委員以及與會的官員首先介紹陳永康陳委員羅美玲羅委員以及國防部今天顧部長因有其他要事請假我們現在有副部長鍾樹民鍾副部長"},{"start":1623.649,"end":1645.996,"text":"副參謀總長執行官黃志偉黃上將曹次長楊基榮楊長次全民防衛動員署廖建新廖署長動員署為什麼是那個"},{"start":1649.5,"end":1650.02,"text":"書長請教嗎他有時間講嗎"},{"start":1695.353,"end":1723.382,"text":"全民防衛動員署執行長林淳美林執行長總督察長是盧建忠總督察長石文榮石參事政務辦公室孫立芳孫主任政治作戰局史順文史局長軍備局林文祥林局長"},{"start":1725.305,"end":1753.371,"text":"主計局 謝祺賢 謝局長軍醫局 陳元浩 陳局長戰略規劃司 黃文綺 黃司長資源規劃司 藍靜婷 藍司長法律事務司 吳義勝 吳司長整合評估司 苗慧芬 苗司長國防採購司 趙雅萍 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李院長"},{"start":1836.016,"end":1864.449,"text":"今天顧部長也特別請教其實剛剛開會議剛剛開始之前還有很多委員就我們還沒有排特別條例的這個部分說了很多的意見那如果像今天這樣連部長都來不了我相信很重要的特別條例大概也沒有辦法審所以我們也希望有很多委員在發言的時候也可以理解部長"},{"start":1865.109,"end":1874.638,"text":"如果自己的就是都沒有理解這樣的理由我相信可以稍微了解一下我們相關的規定尤其像我們在禮拜三選完召委禮拜四我們通常依規會給兩天的時間讓相關的單位去做資料的準備所以像隔天要排審大概也是不太可能"},{"start":1888.972,"end":1903.722,"text":"所以這個部分我們邀請有些委員在發言的時候也可以理解我們相關的一些規定那本日會議邀請國防部報告接近近期美國與伊朗衝突檢討我國防空反飛彈系統效能低成本攔截手段以及無人機反制能量並被質詢現在請中副部長上台報告"},{"start":1927.796,"end":1953.813,"text":"主席各位委員先進今天應邀到大院的委員會進行專案的報告承蒙各位委員對國防安全的關切以及指導在此表達誠摯的謝意那近期中東地區安全的情勢持續受到關注從美伊軍事衝突當中可以發現未來的戰爭形態已經朝向彈道飛彈巡弋飛彈遠程火箭"},{"start":1957.395,"end":1977.373,"text":"以及各型有無人機同步運用形成更加多元的整體戰場威脅使各國防空以及飛彈體系面臨到嚴峻的挑戰那本次的專案報告借盡每一的衝突精進我整體防空的作戰效能並且結合"},{"start":1978.294,"end":2005.051,"text":"低成本攔截的手段以及建立無人機反制能量來建構台灣之盾的高中低空城的嚴密防空火網來確保國人生命財產的安全後續由作戰及計劃參謀次長次長連志威中將就我國防空反配戰系統的效能以及低成本攔截手段無人機反制能量向各位委員實施報告謝謝"},{"start":2014.977,"end":2029.409,"text":"主席 各位委員先進我是作息室次長接續由我就借鏡近期美國與伊朗衝突檢討我國防空反飛彈系統效能低成本攔截手段及無人機反制能量專案報告"},{"start":2030.592,"end":2049.561,"text":"首先前言 近期中東地區的衝突升溫美國及以色列於2月28日對伊朗發起死屍怒火聯合軍事行動空襲伊朗首都德黑蘭 政軍高層的官邸 指揮中心以及重要的軍事設施伊朗革命衛隊隨即展開大規模報復"},{"start":2053.025,"end":2058.61,"text":"對以色列及中東周邊國家境內的美軍基地、民生及關鍵設施進行反擊"},{"start":2061.055,"end":2082.05,"text":"本次軍事衝突除美伊兩國運用戰機、巡弋飛彈及無人機實施空襲外伊朗向以色列及其周邊國家以彈道飛彈、巡弋飛彈及無人機發動混合攻勢顯示反飛彈及無人機的反制能力已成為防空及整體飛彈防禦系統的重要課題"},{"start":2085.029,"end":2110.227,"text":"在防空反飛彈系統效能因應中共多波次多彈種的空中威脅形態並持續以彈道飛彈與遠程火箭加大對我民生及軍事威嚇的力度國軍依總統指導在既有防空能力基礎上打造台灣之盾建構台灣分層防禦高度感知有效攔截的嚴密防空系統"},{"start":2111.187,"end":2133.299,"text":"為台灣編織保護國人生命財產安全的防護網國軍規劃編列軍事投資及特別預算以自主研發及多元途徑採購的方式逐年籌貨戰場管理系統、感測器以及發射器並串聯國造自製與國外採購之各式系統"},{"start":2134.119,"end":2149.841,"text":"建構全方位、多層次以及整合式防護台灣地區重要處所與設施之空中及飛彈防禦體系整建重點在處如此首先國軍以建制長程預警雷達及多元監偵系統"},{"start":2151.303,"end":2169.158,"text":"早期預警威脅與追蹤,縮短空中威脅告警的反應時間使防空部隊及早完成攔截準備,增加攔截成功率並規劃籌獲新式機動雷達,強化徵收能力以及戰場存活率2."},{"start":2169.158,"end":2173.862,"text":"客鎮規劃籌獲中科院研製之天弓式型中程反彈系統"},{"start":2175.203,"end":2193.585,"text":"結合NASEN、愛國者等防空飛彈系統並積極籌獲低成本反火箭防空系統建構高中低層分層防禦重層攔截的防空火網同時執行系統整合、分散部署以強化攔截的效能"},{"start":2194.482,"end":2216.587,"text":"第三為提升整體接戰效能規劃引進高科技與AI的人工智慧之戰場管理系統以整合各式防空武器及感測器可快速鑒別威脅種類並依防空資源提供接戰建議縮短決策以及增加系統反應時間有效攔截來襲目標以適應未來的戰爭形態"},{"start":2219.997,"end":2244.751,"text":"第三是低成本攔截的手段從近期國際衝突與戰爭實力大規模遠程火箭與無人機等低成本武器廣泛運用已成為新型態的攻擊模式造成整體空防壓力國軍運用國防預算籌建台灣之盾防空系統並借國防科技發展低成本防空飛彈來強化國軍戰力防護以及維持整體社會韌性"},{"start":2249.807,"end":2272.778,"text":"台灣之盾的防空系統是採高中低三成防禦體系來建置為避免招敵運用大量低價武器消耗防空飛彈針對遠程火箭的威脅將在現有飛彈技術基礎上研製以及籌貨可執行遠程火箭彈攔截之低成本防空武器"},{"start":2273.638,"end":2297.137,"text":"建立適切的防禦能量確保防衛作戰韌性並維護民眾生命產產安全令同步籌購及部署右標假目標衛星定位干擾系統以及威脅信號產生器等7敵干擾之被動防禦手段來降低敵遠程火箭攻擊的損害第四是無人機的反制能量"},{"start":2298.612,"end":2320.739,"text":"因應現代戰場中小型無人機廣泛的運用並對戰局造成重大的影響以烏俄戰爭為例戰場上每月使用高達18萬餘架的各式無人機造成防空系統迫切的壓力故各國均將反制無人機系統的研製列為重要發展項目"},{"start":2321.916,"end":2338.514,"text":"為避免中共無人機的襲擾消耗我防空資源並維護人民安全及部隊戰力國軍積極籌建無人機反制能量同時採取主動反制、被動防禦的因應措施並持續引進新興科技"},{"start":2339.375,"end":2362.764,"text":"提升反制無人機的效能來強化防衛韌性說明如下首先在主動反制部分本部前以建案遙控無人機防禦系統來防護機場重要指揮所等固定設施達成有效預警先期防組的效能並配合地面守備部隊區域聯防的機制以及通聯手段確保設施安全"},{"start":2363.624,"end":2386.35,"text":"另外考量暫時部隊機動安全防護以變息性、輕量化及操作檢疫等需求籌購地面部隊無人機反制系統另規劃籌獲可吸式及先進無人機反制等系統來建立指揮所、防空、雷達陣地等重要軍事設施及裝備之反制無人機能力"},{"start":2387.352,"end":2402.526,"text":"第二是在被動防禦因無人機的威脅具備低成本數量多與運用彈性高的特性若僅依賴主動反制的方式亦造成大量防空資源的消耗因此國軍借盡烏俄戰長經驗強化假目標的設置"},{"start":2406.889,"end":2425.761,"text":"偽裝遮障 煙幕掩護 防護網的搭設頂蓋防護 掩體加固 出戰配置及機動轉移等作為降低敵攻擊的效益維持指揮管制與關鍵設施運作 確保作戰的韌性第三是引進新興的科技"},{"start":2426.786,"end":2455.847,"text":"考量無人機的導控、抗干擾、避障、自動導航人工智慧、巡峰技術以及反無人機之雷射與高能微波等科技快速更迭持續透過國防創新小組引進最新反制無人機的科技並藉由國際產業交流及合作鏈接國內外商業市場成熟技術採小批量採購測試方式持續提升無人機的反制能量"},{"start":2456.607,"end":2478.275,"text":"最後國軍持續運用國防及特別預算籌獲新式防空武器低成本攔截武器以及無人機反制系統以建構台灣之盾整體防空系統朝符合防衛作戰需求強化全民防衛信心以及展現維護區域安全決心的三個面向全力發展"},{"start":2479.595,"end":2494.71,"text":"懇請委員支持特別預算的編列以及國軍各項武器採購建案以建立維持和平穩定之實力持續為捍衛國土家園守護人民福祉努力以上報告敬請各位委員先進支持與指導謝謝"},{"start":2500.962,"end":2517.375,"text":"我們現在開始詢答本會委員8加2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘10點30分截止發言登記如果有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右處理現在請羅美玲委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請中副部長請副部長"},{"start":2537.15,"end":2542.532,"text":"美國聯手以色列大規模轟炸伊朗的黑藍雖然說伊朗的防空系統有結合中國的遠征"},{"start":2553.416,"end":2568.151,"text":"预警雷达甚至俄罗斯的S300的防空系统甚至伊朗自己本身也有研发了巴瓦尔373的防空系统等等可是我们看到面对美军的大规模的空袭可以说"},{"start":2569.713,"end":2578.357,"text":"伊朗是毫無這個招架之力那所以也顯示了像中國啦俄羅斯跟伊朗他們的這個防空系統的整合是出了這個問題喔那我們台灣的目前有這個美制的愛國者飛彈還有這個我們自己自製的這個天宮系列飛彈還有我們各式防空雷達"},{"start":2587.421,"end":2599.808,"text":"那如果說我們在面對這個敵方飛彈跟無人機飽和攻擊或是電子干擾情況之下目前我們的防空系統整體的運作任性是否還是有很多不足的地方這部分能簡單說明一下嗎"},{"start":2601.6,"end":2624.995,"text":"我跟委員報告然後後續假設不足的部分我再請次長做個說明那第一個部分是我們現在的防空系統他已經有建置了長期的預警雷達能夠縮短整個空中威脅告警的時間那第二個目前來說整個防空系統整體運作上面是沒有問題的但是我們從近期的從俄烏戰爭到"},{"start":2626.816,"end":2650.747,"text":"最近的伊朗跟以色列還有美軍的這一個作戰當中我們可以發現到防空系統在後續整體的運作韌性以及戰場管理系統是一件非常重要的事情所以就現在我們為什麼要建造這一個台灣之盾非常重要一件事情是我們希望把整個我們所有的防空系統能夠做一個有效的整合能夠達到一個分層防禦"},{"start":2652.228,"end":2663.457,"text":"高效的感知以及有效攔截所以這也是委員所提示我們希望在運作任性上面能夠做另外一個高度的強化這是我們目前在做的事情"},{"start":2664.229,"end":2680.117,"text":"OK那再來一點就是說我們在這個伊朗的這個線上我們看到就是說其實這個電子戰是非常重要的不是只有這個印刷其實像軟刷的部分其實也是非常的重要那之前呢我有看到這個媒體報導就是說我們的台美軍國當中我們可能會引進這個美國"},{"start":2685.599,"end":2695.685,"text":"最先進的這個IBCS系統來做這個合作這部分呢我們有做過相關的這個磋商嗎我們跟美方這邊有談到這個部分的這個系統的引進嗎"},{"start":2698.488,"end":2718.707,"text":"當然現在IBCS跟其他的戰場管理系統是我們現在的選項之一那這一個部分後續如果有必要我們在委員的辦公室再跟委員詳細做個說明因為他目前來說只是在做一個評估以及相關的這一個當然也是我們的選項之一"},{"start":2719.335,"end":2735.804,"text":"美方有在做評估就是說在跟美方有做相關的一個研究跟有做這方面的研究所以這部分的話後續的話細節的部分呃到水國防部會大本席辦公室來做一個說明嘛就是這裡這不方便做細節的透露是不是"},{"start":2736.464,"end":2761.642,"text":"OK 好了解那當然我們有看到就是說今天我們國防部的這個報告裡面有提到不管我們要做怎麼樣的一個建制來講比如說我們國軍已經有建制了長城這個預警雷達啦或是多元的這個監偵系統或是說我們現在正在要規劃籌獲的中科院研製的天宮四型中程反飛彈系統"},{"start":2763.143,"end":2781.957,"text":"或者是未來我們規劃要引進高科技的AI人工智慧的戰場管理系統等等我想這些都是要屬於中長程的規劃甚至更是需要預算的支持我在想國防特別條例很快我們就要來做審查"},{"start":2783.678,"end":2801.729,"text":"我想很快我們國防外交委員會很快就要來做排定可是呢剛剛我們所提到的不管是這個防空系統的建置或者是說這個總總剛剛我們所提到的報告所提到的總總的所有的這個裝備的這個設置都需要這個預算來"},{"start":2806.752,"end":2834.248,"text":"那我們也提到就是說其實在我們防空系統方面其實我們還有很多需要去做加強的部分尤其看到這個伊朗這次面對中國的這個伊朗在面對美國的這個強烈的砲轟毫無招架之力更是讓我們覺得這個防空系統建制的這個重要性可是呢我們看到這個各個版本的國防特別條例我們來看一下國民黨的版本也好或是民眾黨團的這個版本也好"},{"start":2835.589,"end":2864.088,"text":"我們發現行政院版裡面所提到的防空反彈道及反裝甲飛彈裡面防空系統的部分還有反彈道系統的部分其實已經被他們拿掉了被他們拿掉了這跟今天的這個題目其實有很大的這個反差我想我們的主席今天會排這個題目其實也是看到這個伊朗面對美國的這個砲轟其實在防空系統方面需要有很多加強的這個地方"},{"start":2864.668,"end":2892.754,"text":"可是很可惜的就是說國民黨團的這個國防特別條例民眾黨團的特別條例裡面把防空系統跟反彈道全部都拿掉了只留下反裝甲飛彈反裝甲無人機飛彈系統的這個部分這部分的部分國防部需要特別再說明一下嗎現在被國民黨團跟民眾黨團拿掉了對整個防空系統來講的話是不是有很大的一個危機這個部分要不要再說明一下"},{"start":2893.977,"end":2894.647,"text":"這部份請站位"},{"start":2897.342,"end":2923.862,"text":"我們這邊要向委員報告一下我們整個軍事投資的規劃是依照我們的計畫預算制度來的所以不論哪一個版本我們都必須要符合我們的計畫預算制度才有辦法執行我們現在的所有的項目不是只有項目跟金額而已我們在前面都已經耗了很冗長的時間去完成我們的建案文件整理獲得規劃書那"},{"start":2926.244,"end":2949.351,"text":"接下來才是完成我們的預算書表那這兩個項目其實在去年的時候都已經奉行政院核定了也就是說這些所有的規劃項目他都已經在我們完整的計畫預算制度的範圍之內如果沒有辦法符合的話勢必造成我們後面所有的文件必須重修尤其在需求段落的部分"},{"start":2950.495,"end":2973.789,"text":"如果只有看到金額,看不到需求,我們整個計畫勢必被完全打亂。這個部分是第一個嚴重的問題。第二個問題是,我們在需求端,事實上包含了很大成分的整合,是放在我們的商購跟偽製案裡面。委員知道AI人工智慧技術的變化是非常快的。"},{"start":2974.369,"end":2990.25,"text":"如果說我們今天用一個比較僵化的軍售去購買的話很容易造成我們東西拿到之後到後面還要花很大的力氣跟很大的金額去更改所以在這個規劃的部分我們"},{"start":2991.272,"end":3007.551,"text":"針對商員已經去做過很多的調查以及討論包含國內外所以這個部分也希望委員能夠支持我們在這個部分就系統整合上面跟我們作戰需求上面已經做了長期的評估以及對於我們未來的展望跟需求"},{"start":3008.98,"end":3011.663,"text":"OK 我在想這部分我之前有看過顧立雄這個部長曾經提到就是說像國民黨的版本也好或民眾黨的版本看起來這個所謂操盤手在寫這些條例的這些操守"},{"start":3026.316,"end":3049.27,"text":"應該是都沒有來開過我們的這個機密會議我們的國防的這個委員會的這個會議所以寫出了一些非常荒腔走板的一些版本那當然本席有看到民眾黨的這個版本真的是非常的可笑應該說是因為國防特別條例它是法案但是法案跟預算案是傻傻分不清所以它把這個金額然後還有這個件數套件等等全部都寫進這個法律案裡面"},{"start":3053.553,"end":3067.09,"text":"當然也看得出來呢他們對這個對這個編列這個所謂的預算或是法案這部分是完全搞不清楚狀況那再來我當然如果說有仔細的了解國防部來聽過國防來參加過我們國防委員會"},{"start":3069.673,"end":3092.325,"text":"其實會覺得說國民黨團的版本跟民眾黨團的版本真的是天馬行空甚至把很多重要的一些我們系統性的建制或者是一些我們要跟美方共同研發的一些裝備跟系統其實全部都拿掉了那剛剛我也看到我們的題目有提到我們如何來建制這個所謂低成本"},{"start":3092.925,"end":3121.896,"text":"那高效率的一些裝備其實像這無人載具跟其反制系統在我們的國防特別條例第三條裡面有特別提到可是我在國民黨的版本跟民眾黨的版本裡面這部分也是被拿掉的所以說今天的題目其實跟我們的行政院的國防特別條例其實這個題目應該是來支持行政院的版本才對可是很可惜的就是說國民黨的版本跟民眾黨的版本是反其道而行"},{"start":3122.296,"end":3130.103,"text":"我在想下個禮拜我們應該還會進入到這個審議的這部分跟組條的部分我也希望說在野黨的委員能夠審慎然後理性的來審議這個條例因為這對國家的安全來講是非常的重要"},{"start":3138.571,"end":3157.5,"text":"這些那也希望就是說經過今天然後呢這個下個禮拜的這個我們對這個國防特別條例的討論能夠讓朝野政黨的能夠來進入理性的這個檢討我想這個對國家的安全來講這是非常重要的這個程序好以上謝謝謝謝委員接下來請陳永康委員上台質詢"},{"start":3183.857,"end":3202.467,"text":"主席有請中副部長請副部長陳委員好副部長早這個禮拜五下班前才收到我們國防部今天報告的文件"},{"start":3204.006,"end":3217.502,"text":"所以,因為非常重視,所以我禮拜六就在辦公室把整個的文件逐漬消化,再反思當初盧列這些文件敘述的背景"},{"start":3218.41,"end":3247.314,"text":"那么我们今天把它全部用逻辑方块图显示我这边对有些地方是要强调有些地方没有涵盖的我们要强化那么有些有努力在做的但是可能理想很高时间上配合不上那至于谈到预算的问题等一下我再跟您请益我们先看一下这个我们先检讨国军防空的能量"},{"start":3249.281,"end":3273.696,"text":"準備的方向防衛的目標防衛的方法防衛的手段最重要的是要檢討反思就逆向思考我們精準的防衛是指盾精準的句子是矛但是現在呢我們跟矛跟盾之間呢是把它混在一起了比方講防衛目標雷達站衛星站指管中心關鍵所儲存庫地下化加固型機動式"},{"start":3275.197,"end":3299.429,"text":"那麼拒止目標呢要防對方的遠海火箭平潭島的無人機部隊消耗戰另外就是我們要做電站的圍籬能夠干擾北斗無人機的風群反制攻擊載具最後啊我們講到的韌性啊不是光復國防部是包括社會的韌性我們看看這次"},{"start":3301.82,"end":3330.02,"text":"伊朗啊就是他雖然防空的能力被摧毀了他反制他打的以色列是什麼打的美國是什麼在這個中央指揮部的指揮中心第五艦隊的通訊站那麼同時把以色列的幾個重要部門電廠啦進水廠啦這些東西都做了一個破壞所以我們反制的能力啊我這邊特別提出啊就是幾個建議是紅字啊那如何"},{"start":3331.876,"end":3343.402,"text":"爭取教家的決策與智囊的行動那這裡面的結構流程我們會後把一些工程的東西流程提供您這邊做參考"},{"start":3346.394,"end":3369.876,"text":"那麼建制反制能量自治優先軍商各為輔當然自動化很多主導的系統通訊遙控國外有現成的可以國內能發展有我們也接受希望建立共同圖像因為共同的圖像並不是在指揮中心而是在政府不同的機構地方政府"},{"start":3371.104,"end":3391.074,"text":"比方講我們在開會的時候這次俄烏的俄國抱歉是這個美國跟伊朗啊這中間因為烏克蘭的面積是台灣的16.7倍伊朗的面積是台灣的45倍所以領土不同目標分散不同你如果沒有一個精準的標註啊"},{"start":3393.195,"end":3406.205,"text":"將來對戰地損傷哪些地方要調節哪些地方要強化不是純粹國軍的指管中心這個東西我們後面有做出建議提到台灣之盾我們當然支持目的方法手段"},{"start":3407.29,"end":3426.29,"text":"預期現況那建立一個一體化的系統那最主要現在還在評估IBCSIBCS是陸軍的系統那在我們國家要把空軍現有的公三強攻還有空軍的環網要整合進去這個是美國的不同廠商的"},{"start":3427.251,"end":3446.299,"text":"資料庫跟他的介面那尤其是我們中科院有些介面跟他們不同這個大家努力我們是支持這個理想但是絕對不是說用一個簡單的想法我們有時間但是預算夠不夠他不是放在特別條例之內強調的因為原先啟動這個構想的時候"},{"start":3448.22,"end":3456.957,"text":"國防部完全沒有向我們在野黨做報告那也就是說你們有細部的研究但是報告的時間太晚到去年底前都沒有"},{"start":3457.762,"end":3481.05,"text":"那各位看一下這是空軍自動化防空的系統我們從天網到強網到環網到環展它的背景的美國外商公司都換了那有些是現在可以借接有些未來還要努力尤其是現在中科院的強工跟這個美方要做借接那將來有很大的共同合作跟努力的空間那這個提供建議"},{"start":3482.472,"end":3493.548,"text":"那么整体作战的系统这个IBCS现在还在做评估它有很好的能力但有很多的限制因素我们讲限制因素这里面各位看一下红色的延幕"},{"start":3494.738,"end":3522.584,"text":"高度通信網路依賴因為我們舉個例來講我們政府說我們的海嵐中段有70個衛星點站那個能力非常有限那個是one web商用衛星會被蓋台的所以不能夠想像中就說我只要商用的備援就可以解決你還要靠其他的機動的這個微波或者中繼台或者是軍用的頻道這個我們跟美方合作另外再談"},{"start":3523.649,"end":3550.914,"text":"那能不能够共同开发能够不能够共同操作这个界面呢要中科院要扮演非常大的角色几乎要全程参与啊那这个我们看一下这个我们就把它拆开来了啊IBCS是一个很好的系统但是要把它整体的整合进来三军呢里面还要共同努力因为整个在太空的武器我们没有这个能力中轨低轨卫星频道有限"},{"start":3552.691,"end":3562.461,"text":"所以你現在看左邊的圖這是一個4億的雷達範圍圖可是你要把你周遭的範圍不只是防空識別區包括友邦包括比方講這個"},{"start":3564.943,"end":3587.372,"text":"我們講馬六甲海峽一直到南海到巴士海峽到宮古海峽這個地方我們都要能夠掌握那右邊這個圖啊就是講左端是我們的徵收器右端是你的武器端包括天弓強弓未來的海馬斯包括NASA各種遠程還有我們的配炮雷達機動雷達所以"},{"start":3590.493,"end":3607.891,"text":"C5ISR還加上T這個T是targeting平常對定點目標我們的情報分析都有排序但是臨時有重要的對方的機動性的目標你這個時候三個軍種不同的偵測器你要"},{"start":3608.792,"end":3633.351,"text":"比对交产生聚焦这个时候啊你的时间很有限比方讲海马斯可以打很远机动鱼叉也很远但是这两个系统中间怎么做沟通所以不只是中科院介入装备整合包括我们的国防大学的职餐教育的图教学都要改进所以我们看到的是一个复合型的东西各位看这边啊"},{"start":3634.468,"end":3641.917,"text":"这个支持国军强化战力赖总统讲我们要继续支持但有一点我提出这个比例不同"},{"start":3644.521,"end":3651.305,"text":"日本的這個國防預算1.8兆但他總預算26兆所以只佔7%那麼韓國的這個國防預算是1.4兆總預算16兆只佔9%但是因為我們的總預算只有3兆目前國防的預算加特別條例加起來已經佔了30%所以不是在野黨在這裡面去"},{"start":3672.81,"end":3699.031,"text":"不支持而是说你的优秀一个整合过程中间我们更要努力所以台湾之盾不是一个概念的盾就像总统讲的但是这里面有很多的界面要三个军种甚至跟中科院跟国内产业要共同来努力整合谈到了美国跟伊朗的战争你发现打到的通通都是"},{"start":3700.182,"end":3719.321,"text":"民間的設施煉油廠電網以及高科技的運算中心這幅圖就是把我們社會韌性所有的結果用AI去把你的關聯性做出來這個圖只是表層它一共有三層我們也可以協助第一個優先是什麼就是電網"},{"start":3720.612,"end":3749.17,"text":"我们17个超高压配电站沿着台海台湾西部如果被打了跳电了你72小时恢复不了医院崩盘社会崩盘这个时候跟非但打多少没有必然的直接关联防御很重要这个电网啊能源啊广播系统啊医疗系统这个是非常重要这个他要做成网络架构那我们政府呢是政府的核心任务是用叙述式的"},{"start":3749.95,"end":3771.916,"text":"各個看他這個五個他是獨立從上到下但是沒有橫向的聯繫這張圖套了五層圖伊朗德黑蘭首都最後伊朗的神學的領導人士被集中的位置都可以校準校正出來"},{"start":3772.984,"end":3800.321,"text":"那请问我们对于人家的借镜有没有采用这个相同方法这个是伊朗南部的那个小学女生的学校被打了死了165个各位看左上图小学军营应该是雾籍这是这个战斧飞弹打的所以我们可以利用GIS AIS还有很多的校正卫星图可以把这个做出来"},{"start":3801.26,"end":3823.942,"text":"那這個就是所謂的這個這個叫做什麼叫叫做這個哈爾克島那目前美方打的是他的機場跑道跟旁邊的指揮那我們用及時的情資也做套疊讓大家可以看到有共同圖像是在戰略判斷跟"},{"start":3825.408,"end":3844.684,"text":"軍事行動過程中間的一個重要橋樑所以國防部現在已經在推動J-COP但並不是在指揮中心而是在長官開會的時候在討論重要國際情勢的時候這個現象要顯示出來我最後用一張圖給各位看這是今天早上七點鐘"},{"start":3847.246,"end":3869.202,"text":"這個荷姆茲海峽的荷姆茲海峽進口的地方有伊朗的領海也有阿聯酋的領海中間的公海部分非常少所以說他並不叫封鎖他可以關閉我的領海你跟我友好你可以無害通過你不友好我就不讓你進來所以現在今天早上我們點選的幾個船的目標都是"},{"start":3870.219,"end":3899.859,"text":"伊朗自己进出阿联酋进出那么另外呢有印度的啊透过其他方法跟他沟通把挂齐那在这个软体上面呢你可以点选进去有付钱的啊你可以回溯哪一天哪个时间哪个目标都可以看出来这个部分的图啊我们会提供这个这个海军啊那请大海局在这个方面呢强化套叠也提供国防部做参考我以上做的建议啊请副部长啊您您做一个参考"},{"start":3901.159,"end":3927.831,"text":"是謝謝委員剛剛很明確的一個指導那剛剛委員所指導部門後續在台灣之盾的一個研討上面會納入參考第二個部分是我們從去年開始10月份就已經成立了有關台灣之盾的專案辦公室那剛剛委員所指導相關的選項其實都是在我們的評估跟實際在研討當中那後續有一些確實的進度會也會跟委員做一個詳細的說明"},{"start":3929.485,"end":3949.115,"text":"好那这次在伊朗的状况伊朗本身的防空被摧毁可是他反击力量造成以色列巨大的损伤那这个部分就证明了即便是铁穹因为你的飞弹数量是有限的你就算是有几百枚几千枚对这种大批的无人机的耗损"},{"start":3950.115,"end":3971.103,"text":"那无人机我想中科院在干扰部分现在已经在强化那有一部分绝对不是用弹去打而且就是目前的快炮甚至用这个雷射干扰比方讲1000瓦一公里范围内的这种我想中科院都在努力做这个部分可以抵消很多而不是用产生多少枚飞弹去拦截多少"},{"start":3971.843,"end":3985.824,"text":"这个进犯的这个远程火箭因为我们的数量是永远不够那另外就是维护整合所有的侦测装备三军的装备讯号要通联这个还有努力的空间"},{"start":3987.046,"end":4010.436,"text":"是 就是所以我們在報告當中也特別對目前中共的一個原火營包含到剛剛委員所指導的PHRO動山以上的一個原火系統我們後續為研製籌貨相關攔截的低成本的防空武器希望能夠同步來建置防空的一個能量也納入我們的研究參考希望大家共同努力謝謝謝謝委員指導"},{"start":4015.603,"end":4019.025,"text":"謝謝 接下來請陳俊宇委員上台質詢好 謝謝趙偉 我們有請中副部長請副部長副部長早"},{"start":4040.24,"end":4069.173,"text":"陳委員早在今年這個二月底中東地區爆發這場代號死屍之怒的軍事行動美國以涉獵聯軍在短短24小時之內精準的打擊伊朗境內上千個重要目標甚至成功的斬首伊朗的最高領袖及多位的國防高層那我想這不但展現了現代戰爭中這種情報滲透與精準打擊的一個重要性"},{"start":4069.893,"end":4083.046,"text":"更作為我們接下來要建構防禦體系一個實戰環境下的一個經驗參考根據報導指出美軍在這一次針對伊朗的這個空襲之中實際應用AI系統的一個進行"},{"start":4086.589,"end":4112.615,"text":"戰術決策的資源那這些系統能夠在數分鐘之內運用海量的這個數據生成多套的作戰方案將原本需要數個小時的這個情報判讀與決策壓縮到僅需一分鐘之內就能夠精準的同步打擊並且這個美軍不但精算伊朗重要設施的這個變動甚至能夠透過AI辨識"},{"start":4114.355,"end":4129.72,"text":"哈米尼車隊的移動軌跡完成了精準的打擊任務而國防部在這次的專題報告當中也有提到我們除了打造台灣之盾之外也規劃要引進高科技與AI人工智慧"},{"start":4130.36,"end":4157.715,"text":"的這種戰場管理系統來整合我們防空資源快速的鑑別威脅並提供接戰的建議那我想請教副部長我們如何借盡美軍在這一次戰場上使用的這個效率規劃在我們作戰中運用AI那又應該要如何來防範中共的這種干擾或滲透確保我們AI系統是可信並且能夠穩定的運作"},{"start":4159.68,"end":4182.018,"text":"第一個部分首先非常感謝委員的指導第一個部分是國防部今年在1月份就已經成立了整個AI人工智慧專案的辦公室那這個專案辦公室呢就希望能夠導入看到未來的戰爭趨勢希望能夠引進高科技的AI人工智慧的一個戰場的一個管理系統"},{"start":4182.999,"end":4211.072,"text":"當然我們在1.25兆的特別預算裡面也特別編列有關AI輔助跟CYSR的一個系統這中間也包含到人工智慧的決策資源系統以及戰術網路還有部隊快速情勢分享的運用套件這都在我們這個規劃當中所以從這整個美伊戰爭當中國防部也看到相關未來戰爭一個發展情勢所以這個人工智慧是我們未來發展的一個重點"},{"start":4211.772,"end":4227.851,"text":"那第二個部分是有關這個防空整合跟抵抗這個電子干擾的部分而這個部分我們除了運用各式的電子徵收系統來實施威脅的預警之外另外也會運用所有被動式的防護措施跟戰術作為來施因因為目前"},{"start":4228.652,"end":4257.583,"text":"整個對方的一個電子干擾它可以區分到太空空中以及陸上的部分那目前來看是空中的這個電子干擾威脅是比較大的包含到它的千磁流跟雲巴相關的電子干擾看起來是威脅最大那這個部分在超波本部它有相關也有因應的劇本那第三個部分有關攔截低成本的這個無人機的部分我們現在這個主動跟被動的防禦都已經有在做了"},{"start":4258.203,"end":4277.336,"text":"所以目前在各機場固定設施有這個辦到自動的防空干擾槍以及這個自動反制的系統目前都在建置當中第二個部分是未來我們也會發展低成本的一個防空武器來避免在對應敵人低成本的這一個"},{"start":4278.777,"end":4293.19,"text":"攻擊的時候我們運用高成本的防空飛彈類似這樣的一個武器去對應它也會損害我們的預算以及防禦的成本所以這部分也已經納入考量當中簡單跟委員做個說明"},{"start":4295.051,"end":4312.083,"text":"我想我們從美伊之間的戰事還觀察到幾個現象包括伊朗雖然耗費巨資引進中國製的雷達還有二制的防空系統可是在這一次卻缺乏有效的整合使得美軍電戰干擾的作戰下讓他們整個系統都癱瘓失靈"},{"start":4317.147,"end":4331.729,"text":"對於台灣來說我們有性能卓越的飛彈也有持續增購相關的防空系統在我們國造武器與美制系統之間的整合也是我們接下來急需提升的部分"},{"start":4332.53,"end":4352.903,"text":"那避免未來出現像伊朗一樣的這種窘境那我想這部分請教副部長我們如何確保未來在遭受中共高強度的這種電子干擾的攻擊之下還能夠有足夠的一個韌性來做抵抗避免各個防空單位退化成各自為戰的一個孤島"},{"start":4354.625,"end":4377.436,"text":"剛剛委員知道非常正確就是說目前來看中共對我在初期威脅最大是它的聯合火力打擊那這個聯合火力打擊裡面最重要就是它的不管是它的導彈飛彈或者是它的原火營對我們的部隊以及政府的關鍵基礎設施還有台灣人民當然造成非常大的一個傷害"},{"start":4379.077,"end":4398.836,"text":"所以為什麼要建造台灣之盾非常重要是我們希望能夠藉由分層的防禦高度的感知有效的攔截能夠藉由戰場管理系統將幹務委員所指導的辦案到美系以及我們自製的防空武器做一個有效的整合能夠藉由高度的感測"},{"start":4400.157,"end":4421.017,"text":"多建置高度感測的一個感測器那能夠自動分析管理然後藉由有效的這個板子來因應剛剛我所提的聯合火力打擊威脅的部分所以這部分已經納入我們專案辦公室當中每個禮拜已經每個月都會定期做一個"},{"start":4422.618,"end":4445.184,"text":"這個檢討以及相關的會議那也在每個月的工作進度會跟這個總統做一個進度的一個回報那確實從這一個呃呃國安以及國安部都有做相關的一個進度管制跟委員做個說明好那剛剛副部長您也大概有提及到這種低成本的作戰方式齁那在這一次這個呃"},{"start":4447.645,"end":4461.676,"text":"整個美國跟以色列還有伊朗的衝突之中還有這個俄烏戰爭我們都看到這個無人機的相關運用越來越吃重那在之前也傳出美軍在這個"},{"start":4463.297,"end":4487.387,"text":"一次的戰爭之中用1750萬美元的這種低成本無人機成功來摧毀伊朗的價值12億的防空設施在價值上出現不成比例的一個交換那我想我們對於相關的這種低成本的包括無人機還有相關防衛系統我們參考其他國家的經驗"},{"start":4488.807,"end":4509.964,"text":"像以色列投入了這種鐵速雷射防空系統據稱每一次攔截的成本只要幾塊美元而已美軍也部署梅羅普斯這種機動式的反無人機系統台灣雖然也有相關的裝備可以應對但是共軍如果發動這種"},{"start":4512.726,"end":4540.903,"text":"風群式的攻擊到底何種手段適合作為我們反制大量無人機侵略的一個方案也是我想來請教副部長的部分那面對這個中共可能更勝於伊朗的這種大量廉價無人機的攻擊威脅我們在低成本的這種攔截手段上在做法上如何來降低防禦的成本維持我們長期消耗的一個承載能力這個部分是不是請副部長大概再做簡要說明一下"},{"start":4541.873,"end":4568.908,"text":"跟委員回答第一個部分是我們考量到無人機的技術它更迭是非常快速的所以我們會透過國安部的創新小組DIO來引介目前已經成熟的自動化的槍砲以及無人機增工還有電針干擾的一個系統希望能夠結合到市場成熟的技術採小批量採購跟快速籌購的方式來獲得這樣的一個戰力第二個部分我們有藉由這個特別預算的這個"},{"start":4570.47,"end":4584.644,"text":"像希望在現有的飛彈技術基礎之上能夠研製以籌貨可執行遠程火箭彈攔截一個低成本的保護武器來建立世界這個保育量那目前我們除了"},{"start":4585.325,"end":4609.335,"text":"去參考國外最新的這樣的一個技術跟低成本的防空武器之外因為我們國內目前也有自製研發的能量目前也在進行當中那第三個部分我們也會同步去籌購部署右標甲目標衛星定位以及加強我們所有重要目標的防護來強化我們有關被動防禦的部分這部分都同步在進行當中簡單跟委員做個說明"},{"start":4611.176,"end":4629.675,"text":"我們從現有的資訊來看雖然伊朗在正規海空軍在這種死屍之怒中遭到嚴重打擊但是他們卻能憑藉所謂這種飛彈層和供應鏈的一個韌性在連續被轟炸十幾天之後依然維持反擊的能力"},{"start":4630.556,"end":4646.123,"text":"反應即便這個主動攔截失效透過高強度的這種被動防禦也能夠減少敵方空中偵察與打擊造成的損害更確保後續的反擊能力那對於台灣而言我們除了電網通訊節點"},{"start":4648.744,"end":4670.391,"text":"較為集中且脆弱那重要的這種軍事據點更可能是容易被鎖定的一個目標那我想這也許是中共在演習當中重點要打擊的一個科目並且一旦開戰我方可能會遭受到許多原火和無人機的飽和攻擊那對於這部分再請教副部長我們國防部針對關鍵設施的這種防護還有備援能力"},{"start":4675.433,"end":4690.692,"text":"用什麼方式來加強規劃我們如何提升自身戰力保存的這種機動化能力以維持我們反擊的一個能力包括東部的地下設施是否也需要做相關的檢討"},{"start":4692.252,"end":4708.144,"text":"簡單跟委員做說明,第一個部分是我們現在對於國軍的所有重要的防護模樣搬到指揮所跟地下洞窟的部分我們從應該是說從前年去年到今年已經完成相關的評估"},{"start":4708.945,"end":4735.76,"text":"那也做了相關的一個評估的一個防護報告所以對固定的這一個重要目標跟指揮所的部分我們後續會採取剛剛委員所指導辦到這個掩體加固的部分那第二個部分就是我們也加強在作案當中一個疏散配置跟指揮所的一個轉移而避免遭受到這一個敵人從層的一個攻擊或者是在打擊當中我們指揮所沒辦法運作"},{"start":4736.761,"end":4754.777,"text":"因此機動指揮所以及預備指揮所的選刊也已經完成了相關的一個選刊跟部署當中那第三個部分就是剛剛也跟這個委員剛剛同時說明的就是說辦到這個右標假目標衛星定位的干擾系統"},{"start":4755.638,"end":4777.369,"text":"還有威脅信號也在我們的這個規劃當中或許會逐步在這樣的一個規劃當中逐步去完成來因應目前無人機的威脅對國軍甚至整個這個政府關鍵基礎設施還有台灣人民的一個威脅當中都在我們的整個台灣制盾的這個規劃當中逐步去實現它"},{"start":4778.55,"end":4801.677,"text":"好那參照近期這個其他國家的這種戰事那要建構我們國防安全的一個戰力需要長遠的這個規劃與務實的執行那這部分也在請我們國防部持續的精進那將國際間的相關實戰經驗轉化為確保我們台海和平實質防衛的一個量能好以上謝謝謝謝委員指導謝謝"},{"start":4807.608,"end":4820.731,"text":"接下來請黃仁委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請中副部長有請中副部長"},{"start":4827.919,"end":4850.617,"text":"黃委員好您好我們今天就關於在左院長利用松子部去日本看棒球那本席感覺得出來你們也是出於無奈因此本席不會特別責怪空軍但本席還是希望國防都可以協助釐清一些問題那畢竟這件事"},{"start":4851.979,"end":4859.596,"text":"不是那麼單純的知不知恥的棒球而是牽涉到官員以上旗下"},{"start":4861.598,"end":4886.552,"text":"然後迫使下級機關承擔他們不該承擔的責任甚至嚴重到以私人身份濫用國防的資源那從媒體的報導中可以知道那左院長包機使用松子部的前一天找了很多相關機關去行政院開專案會議開會一定會有一個開會的通知"},{"start":4887.116,"end":4915.988,"text":"那本席想要知道開會通知的內容包含發文機關會議組織開會時間是否為上班的時間那開會地點是否為行政院的會議室開會通知可以公開給本委會是不是可以提供一份這一份包含開會的組織能不能提供"},{"start":4919.144,"end":4946.95,"text":"委員好 我是空軍參謀長跟委員報告針對剛剛您提到會議的部分通知的部分我們都是受到電話通知與行政院是召開語音的方式來做一個會議邀集相關的單位剛剛您有提到這邊我也不方便做其他的單位的回答這個是沒有正式發函我們是受到電話的通知召開的專案會議"},{"start":4949.386,"end":4969.65,"text":"既然是電話通知而且是松子部包機到日本去第一個我們去想像如果是從松子部包機到任何地方一定是以什麼以他的這個公文為主"},{"start":4970.259,"end":4992.996,"text":"所以實為公務 公務的行為所以如果是以私人的角度不應該要用公務行為來包機來以下 以上欺下然後責怪到你們這個機關現在很多人誤會 送死部到底是誰的指令你們會願意這樣子"},{"start":4995.993,"end":5023.879,"text":"冒那麼大的風險然後他們沒有任何的行文然後只是用電話裡面來指示你們要包機用私人的行程裡面這樣的行為已經構成了很多是不是這個比如說堵職或者是有很多的這樣的一個違反公務法的第七條你看看我們想一想"},{"start":5024.679,"end":5053.157,"text":"我們過去很多的監察院監察院這個所糾正的像秘書長李俊逸監察委員林玉榮王榮章蘇麗瓊遭揭露私用公務車社會觀感非常差所以左院長堅持是私人的事務但動用多個行政機關為了他的私人行程的開會"},{"start":5054.778,"end":5083.345,"text":"所以這可以說是向全國公務員做出一個最糟糕的示範所以我想你們未來在松子部如果它是真正的街道你們真正的街道是公務行程我想你們就必須要執行如果不是公務行程而是用電話告知然後它必須要包機到日本去你們必須要執行"},{"start":5084.526,"end":5099.923,"text":"來配合,我想你們也有私子的一個問題所以你們提供你們在這過程裡面提供給我們本委會一份資料好不好是"},{"start":5100.828,"end":5125.454,"text":"好 那另外一次是 我想請問一下部長 副部長本期看了今天的報告 感覺不是在檢討我國對無人機攻擊的報告 反而更像是推銷國會同意給錢買武器的一個縮帖那請問副部長 目前國軍防無人機作戰是由誰負責 你來回答"},{"start":5126.325,"end":5147.178,"text":"目前整個國軍反無人機的作戰是由參謀本部來規劃負責整個反無人機作戰的部分所以參謀本部 所謂參謀本部有沒有包含空軍有包含空軍當然他的參謀本部的責任官就是由總長來負責好 待會我會提出幾項的問題所在因為"},{"start":5148.118,"end":5166.656,"text":"你認為國軍目前對無人機攻擊最薄弱的地方是什麼據本席了解最薄弱的地方除了國軍缺乏反無人機的專用武器外還有什麼第一即使是無人機國軍主要針對的還是高價值"},{"start":5167.813,"end":5187.959,"text":"高價值的目標對小型無人機封群準備不足第二防無人機的能力集中的防空單位戰術單位卻很薄弱那尤其是小型的無人機這個封群對國軍的壓力非常大但這個在"},{"start":5190.855,"end":5217.09,"text":"蘭德公司和新美國安行中心的兵推中都已經明確的指出了這也是吐血我國防無人機作戰集中的防空單位的問題由於小型無人機的飛行距離有限無法從福建沿海直接跨越海峽飛到台灣所以共勤的小型無人機風起想要對國軍"},{"start":5219.291,"end":5246.855,"text":"構成威脅首先要取得什麼要取得制海制空權再由大型無人機或兩棲艦艇甚至以武裝漁船放飛無人機的風巡所以因此國軍最有效的反制無人機風巡作為很大程度反而是在海軍的反艦作戰而不是空軍的防空作戰"},{"start":5248.096,"end":5264.547,"text":"當我們提到反制無人機的時候從來不會有人提出海軍在這個當中的角色所以部長要做到完整的防無人機體系各軍種要如何配合各自負責什麼樣的任務你來提一下"},{"start":5265.441,"end":5286.629,"text":"所以剛剛委員指導也非常正確就是說我們現在對於整個這一個反制無人區的部分我們必須要將現在的整個防空5G上面去做一個整合辦到我們區分高層中層以及低層那如何有效做到這一個分層的攔截高度的"},{"start":5287.369,"end":5315.209,"text":"感知以及有效的這個防禦有效攔截跟防禦這個部分這中間需要一個戰場管理系統去整合它那這也是我們目前在努力的手段所以我們目前整個這個反無人機的部分當然您剛剛指導非常正確的地方就是說風群的無人機戰術它目前可能實行的方式是從海上或者是登陸之後來做一個大量以及風群的一個戰術"},{"start":5316.63,"end":5336.665,"text":"目前在我們目前的所有狀態防護設施上面我們也已經建置了相關的一個板制的部分包含到無人機的板制系統機炮的一個板制系統甚至我們一區整體安全上面也律定了相關的一些規定能夠板制您剛剛所講的包含到一二類的三無人機"},{"start":5337.466,"end":5358.177,"text":"因為實驗因素,第一個提出來的縱然是有幾項是重點可是本席認為有很大的一個反差為什麼?因為你們的準備不足我本席提出完整的防無人氣的體系應該有幾項第一個空清負責空液"},{"start":5359.858,"end":5379.357,"text":"監控與防空指揮第二海軍負責打擊海上無人機平台第三海巡針對武裝漁船或海上民兵船等灰色地帶來做一個監控那第四入侵前線部隊反無人機第五"},{"start":5381.325,"end":5406.423,"text":"電戰部隊進行電子壓制與干擾這幾項就是你們應該要加強的現在我們的無人機反而現在是走傳統的傳統的這樣防空的體系我說這個也是很落後的我希望能夠跟我提出來的應該分層負責在各個單位裡面有五項提出來"},{"start":5407.185,"end":5428.232,"text":"因為國軍的無人性能力簡單來說只停留在傳統的防空體系所以跨軍軍種的配合薄弱還是缺乏體系化作戰的概念部長你認為我提出的這個有沒有道理"},{"start":5428.972,"end":5448.634,"text":"我簡單跟委員做個說明,因為這個反制無人機系統台灣之盾是針對整個台灣本島的一個防空防疫去做一個整體的規劃那您剛剛所提有關艦隊防空以及海軍的反艦作戰或是基地防衛裡面其實各軍種各自有他自己的一個防務系統"},{"start":5449.275,"end":5475.495,"text":"那目前我們希望把台灣本島的所有的陸海空的一個高中低層的防空武器做一個有效的整合來因應防護台灣本島的一個防空那有關這個板制在有關這個爭奪制空制海權的部分各自軍種他當然有他自己本身的一個自我防衛的一個能力跟板建的能力這兩個部分是要分開在所以剛剛我已經提出來嘛"},{"start":5476.175,"end":5493.936,"text":"我們我國的反無人機的作戰集中在防空單位的問題由於這個小型無人機的飛行的距離有限所以無法從福建沿海直接跨越海峽飛到台灣所以它的距離"},{"start":5494.777,"end":5523.411,"text":"不夠遠所以要有什麼載具比如說反艦艇比如說要用民船民兵在過程裡面來做一個載運然後再來進行無人機的這樣的一個飛行戰鬥所以這個就是一個你們要思考的我們還是停留在一個傳統防空的一個系統嘛所以我今天要提的是我們買了這麼多的無人機但是我們今天要看它的"},{"start":5524.191,"end":5530.774,"text":"效能能不能達到他的標準所以你們要重新的檢討啊 好不好好 謝謝委員指導好接下來請王安祥委員上台質詢"},{"start":5555.338,"end":5558.091,"text":"有請中副部長請中副部長"},{"start":5565.907,"end":5592.638,"text":"保安員好早早我也拿到了這次國防部針對這次委員會開會所提出的一個報告我想這個報告很好就是針對現在不管是美伊戰爭還是美伊衝突的一些檢討我想這個軍工本來就導入系統構成的概念我想PTCA非常重要所以我今天就就教國防部這邊針對這個報告裡面的一些細節我再來做一些就教"},{"start":5594.278,"end":5622.137,"text":"我想在這次戰爭裡面當然雙方互有斬獲不過我剛剛講的在資訊系統裡面其實雷達就像資訊系統的眼睛一樣不過我們好像看到報宅的資訊約旦的ANTBY2這一套雷達好像有被摧毀我想雷達被摧毀後整個防疫系統基本上就被摧毀了基本上我這個資訊不想光顧這邊應該有掌握"},{"start":5628.982,"end":5644.913,"text":"因為這個報告裡面也講到很多這個低成本的不對稱的一些互相的戰力的配置我們現在在過去比較被動的部分包含我們愛國者或是天公三號基本上成本其實都還蠻高的"},{"start":5646.494,"end":5675.177,"text":"就這一次很多這個不對稱戰力的部分而且就我們知道很多這個資訊看起來中國都在研發一些低成本的一些武器比如說像無人機剛剛前面幾位委員提到非常非常多所以針對這個我想就是不對稱就是像這次伊朗後來發動這種所謂的無人機的攻擊那針對我剛剛說的過去這個被動式不管愛國者飛彈這個成本差異非常非常大不曉得國防部對這個因應有什麼樣具體的一些建議"},{"start":5676.945,"end":5699.882,"text":"剛剛委員說得非常正確就是說我們現在愛國者飛彈當然它的造價是非常高所以基本上對於剛剛所提的有關無人機的部分尤其是小型的無人機我們不會用高成本的這個防空武器去使用它所以有關愛國者飛彈跟天貨的部分大部分是針對敵人的高價值的戰機或高價值的這一個彈道飛彈巡弋飛彈來執行攔截"},{"start":5706.027,"end":5720.377,"text":"那這也是我們後續為什麼台灣制度裡面我們要去發展一個低成本的防空武器能夠攔截遠程的火箭尤其是現在看到就是您剛剛所提的放到他的原火營跟無人機未來絕對是他在"},{"start":5722.679,"end":5733.886,"text":"那所以這個看起來過去天宮我們叫強宮這個專案基本上我們用的是我們常常說它是台版的薩德那基本上它會不會變靈到剛剛我說的這個問題就是雷達NPY2會不會發生同樣的狀況"},{"start":5740.093,"end":5763.639,"text":"這個強攻專案它的發展就是為了因應希望能夠用低成本的這個防空武器來作為我們反制無人機的一個最主要一個裝備那目前這整個強攻專案目前在進行當中如果有需要的話我們會到委員辦公室去專案跟你做個說明但是他簡單說就是一個低成本的一個防空武器希望能夠因援火以及這個無人機的威脅"},{"start":5764.359,"end":5777.999,"text":"對 所以借盡了美伊衝突他們之間的狀況請國安部再把他列入做參考那剛剛前面很多委員都提到這個IBCS我想這個對我們來說這個CIS的integration非常非常重要因為我們現在有很多這個"},{"start":5779.521,"end":5794.957,"text":"來自不同的 我們重溫的時候來自很多包括我們最近要跟美國買一些武器所以基本上整合上對我們來說非常非常重要因為我們這個系統裡面可能有一些美國的系統也有一些我們自治的系統不知道這個整合上會不會有什麼樣的困難"},{"start":5797.163,"end":5824.517,"text":"剛剛所提就是我在前面跟所有委員報告當中確實戰場管理系統如果去整合美制的防空武器以及台灣自治的防空武器這是我們未來努力的一個方向那我要再次說明就是說IBCS當然它是一個美軍現在陸軍現行的一個戰場管理系統這是我們目前的評估的選項之一那也有其他的戰場管理系統在做相關的研討跟磋商"},{"start":5825.017,"end":5852.723,"text":"所以後續會有一個比較距離因為我們專案辦公室目前也在研究相關的戰場管理系統做相關的研究跟評估當中這是其中一個選項所以因為國外好像這個系統整合上其實都不是非常非常OK包括丹麥他們最近其實還沒有覺得我想我們現在要構思整個國防的整合的系統我希望國防部這件事情尤其這一次的美伊的衝突基本上也把這些事情列入參考至於它的這個效益"},{"start":5853.303,"end":5872.91,"text":"我也想要知道一下是不是可以國防部有一些進一步的資訊可不可以提供我們的辦公室做一些參考好那另外這個無人機我想大家今天都提到很多或是我們過去在講這個整個軍購的部分那我們先不要講新的我們先講過去的這個部分MQ-9P這個部分這個交貨因為這是114年的預算不曉得現在這個狀況怎麼樣交貨的狀況"},{"start":5881.153,"end":5905.704,"text":"這個MQ-9整個專案目前都是按計畫來進行那預計在今年第三季首兩架會回到台灣是所以按照原來的期程是沒有問題的是完全按照計畫好那非常好那基本上除了我們這個軍購的部分我們其實國內尤其像中科院我們有做一些開發一些無人機防禦系統"},{"start":5906.772,"end":5923.969,"text":"那這個過去好像有一些狀況啦那個在上一個會期好像也講到這個延宕的事情好像是根據這個因為鏡頭的關係是不是是不是請國防部做一下說明這個問題是不是已經解決了是不是可以如期的做一些這個研發或重獲我請中院院長"},{"start":5926.267,"end":5937.369,"text":"報委員沒有錯在初期執行的時候的確因為惡霧戰爭的關係我們的關鍵的鏡頭組件從國外進口造成了延宕現在整個這個部分全部都是百分之百在國內自治"},{"start":5938.707,"end":5960.862,"text":"所以已經改成就是連那個鏡頭的部分都我們自己來做因為上次我也跟著國防委員那時候到美國去其實我們在這個美方也跟我們講了很多供應鏈供應的問題我想在我們這個武器的籌貨上那可能還是要把這些因素考慮進去讓我們這個軍工的部分和武器的部分如期能夠拿到"},{"start":5963.215,"end":5976.008,"text":"接下來就是海關號的部分我想國人也非常非常的關心所以我們現在做很多測試現在是潛航測試不曉得現在進度狀況怎麼樣是不是可以簡單跟我們大家說一下"},{"start":5979.936,"end":5995.539,"text":"委員好 海軍參謀長報告那目前已經完成了潛航的第六次的海測那目前在持續按照後續的測像跟相關的準備現在正在緊如密鼓在準備那會按照一個安全的條件來做後續的測試 以上報告"},{"start":5996.119,"end":6013.686,"text":"對 所以現在原來的相關的一些其實還在進行中那因為這個好像有一些delay所以會產生一些計法的狀況不曉得現在計法的狀況可能是到最後交界的時候才會處理那不曉得現在的狀況是怎麼樣我想國人你都非常的關心"},{"start":6014.542,"end":6029.088,"text":"是 跟委員報告相關的計法的部分因為依照合約我們會在交件之後才會依照整個delay的整個時間我們來做一月的計法但是由於這個計法的這個基準我們有一些精進空間現在已經在跟台船做一些平台"},{"start":6029.768,"end":6053.403,"text":"我們再看看後面的依照合約的計法我們怎麼來修正跟改正這個目前正在作業所以有現在比較確定的狀況嗎比如說大概我們要怎麼樣處理這件事情包括哪些功能或是哪些項目剛剛您說的 有進一步的資訊嗎目前沒有 如果有會再跟委員這邊做報告"},{"start":6054.143,"end":6077.314,"text":"那現在看起來交建的狀況不曉得國防部這邊大概預期的交建的預期大概會抓在什麼時候跟委員報告因為我們是合約的甲方我們一定是要完成它的品質跟合乎海軍的作戰需求那會請台船依照合約然後我們會來做狀況管理那現在先完成整個海上測試之後才能談到後續的交建的期程"},{"start":6077.974,"end":6090.603,"text":"是 所以專案管理很重要啦我想這個隨時都希望能夠跟我們做一些報告有些delay啦 這我們過去在學校非常care這個事情做專案管理啦才不會到最後一拖拖拖整個就拖下去了啦"},{"start":6091.908,"end":6108.358,"text":"另外就是其實我加入外交國防委員會因為有特別預算我就一直在看看我們國內重獲軍工武器的一個狀況我特別就去查了一個這個概念這個應該有就五年兵力的整建計畫"},{"start":6109.699,"end":6127.507,"text":"那我想這個應該跟我們整個軍購或者我們自製的一些武器會有很大的關係不過我剛來之前我發現好像很多報道說這個裡面很多機密後來去查了一下好像國防法是分兩種就所謂的有機密的也有公開的應該是這樣才對吧不曉得國防部長"},{"start":6129.268,"end":6157.971,"text":"是應該是有可以公開的部分就是上次的那個資訊是有問題的所以我想希望未來我們不管各項的這個包括我們最近的軍購都能夠大概告訴我們一下這個五年這個兵力的狀況怎麼樣跟我們因為現在有兩類嘛一個是general的budget就一般的預算裡面也有這種所謂special那這兩者到底要怎麼樣balance我想我們都非常想要知道"},{"start":6161.073,"end":6174.33,"text":"包委員,我們的確每一個會期我們都會向大院這邊來做兵力整建的報告但這個報告的內容我們揭露的主要是我們目前正在執行中的主要武器裝備的籌貨"},{"start":6176.092,"end":6202.634,"text":"那五年兵力,國防部本身的五年兵力整建計畫的內容它是屬於我們國防部內部機密評估未來我們所需求的項目那這個部分兩者是不一樣的一個是我們內部的建軍文件一個是對大院所做的報告所以兩者之間在這個國防法裡面,律定我們的跟那個所以我指的是公開的部分啦,不是一個報告"},{"start":6205.396,"end":6224.491,"text":"最後我想利用一點點時間因為大家知道我是勞動學者我們這邊為了少子女化其實我們做了很多的努力我也希望很多君子的這些媽媽我想國防部要多多為他們著想一下而且我認識很多朋友女性的君子人員"},{"start":6225.191,"end":6248.539,"text":"他常常他的老公他另外一半也是軍職人員這個很多我們現在少子女化要生小孩要養小孩小孩生病了還要帶他去看醫生我希望是不是國防部可以想一套方法怎麼來幫助這些軍職的這些媽媽讓他們真的也敢生小孩也能夠真的把小孩能夠帶好當然也強化我們的國防能力"},{"start":6249.167,"end":6270.52,"text":"是第一個部分就是當然這一個我們希望能夠讓軍人在安心的服役對於軍隊的照顧是非常重要的那所以委員上面所提的目前的整個這個托兒機構目前在相關的主要部分是我們持續在推動的工作當中目前整個托兒機制的部分"},{"start":6272.301,"end":6294.923,"text":"我所理解目前都已經在相關的地區都已經有建置那除了外島地區可能是有比較困難之外那另外在本島北中南東這個部分大部分都已經設置了那實際我們現在整個育嬰的部分有開了30處的一個育嬰托嬰中心那也"},{"start":6296.144,"end":6303.114,"text":"其中只要軍艦有需要照顧的部門我們都能夠分擔是不是還可以提供一些書類資料給我們辦公室 好不好謝謝接下來請王定宇委員上台質詢"},{"start":6326.124,"end":6334.601,"text":"請副部長黃委員好"},{"start":6336.174,"end":6363.642,"text":"副部長我今天當我們的題目是從美伊戰爭裡面要學一些教訓事實上在過去這一年大概這兩三年不管是俄烏戰爭甚至於在其他的地方發生的大小軍事衝突其實有相當多值得台灣借鏡的比方說委內瑞拉比方說以色列跟周邊國家的衝突樣態不一樣那裡面有一個特徵就是"},{"start":6364.722,"end":6386.56,"text":"在現在戰場上我們因應的狀態跟我們從二戰、越戰、韓戰學到的經驗已經完全不一樣了如果這思維沒有改變坦白講軍事裝備在手上運用會變成是事倍功半我第一個先請教我剛才看到幾位同仁也問到了這個Shahid這一個見證者沙西德"},{"start":6388.195,"end":6406.365,"text":"非常便宜那一台大概不到一百萬台幣那他打中了當時全世界大概就四座鋪路爪雷達台灣有一座最早期只有兩座北美防空司令部再來就台灣那打中這個鋪路爪那第一個他為什麼會打到他"},{"start":6407.577,"end":6426.952,"text":"我不曉得我們國防部有沒有研究就是說這種高單價極具戰略價值的重要設施面對這種低廉的甚至它坦白講我們任何的飛彈防空面要去打它都不划算的殺死了而且速度非常慢為什麼會打中尤其是在美軍的防禦體系下"},{"start":6428.524,"end":6454.877,"text":"你們有沒有研究原因這個部分因為它要連用廉價的這個武器要打中這個昂貴的因為這個部分看起來它是一個固定設施所以掀起的一個情報的蒐集跟定位是最重要的一件事情也是確定我們都知道這種固定設施第一級都會打啦會用飛彈打極音速飛彈來打現在是一個時速大概50公里的慢速的無人機那個聲音齁"},{"start":6458.138,"end":6471.5,"text":"是像那個摩托車把消音器拔掉的聲音喔很大喔它怎麼打中的我們空軍有沒有研究我們相關單位有沒有研究就是說它是怎麼打中的他山之石啊要學啊"},{"start":6478.175,"end":6498.804,"text":"這跟您報告 至於他怎麼打中這個部分 我們目前沒有太多的情質但是就我們自己本身的雷達陣地來講 樂山雷達陣地來講他是結合周邊的冰火力我今天為什麼要問第一題要問這一題人家在波斯灣的周邊的冰火力比我們還密集"},{"start":6500.327,"end":6519.461,"text":"因為這個資訊不夠清楚所以說我們不清楚但是他們的愛國者防空營不夠還把日本跟韓國的調過去了我不知道這樣講對不對沙西德非常廉價結果俄羅斯拿去在烏克蘭戰場用還造成了他不准但他打中了很多"},{"start":6520.622,"end":6542.473,"text":"電啊發電廠一些設施這一次在伊朗戰爭裡面後來發現我看了一些軍事專家的研究第一個沙西德它的速度慢慢到我們在正常的雷達系統會把它過濾掉這是否為真這個部分就是要按照情資來做一個設定因為我們一般設定"},{"start":6544.246,"end":6561.405,"text":"那個波段不管遠程的雷達它的波段就長嘛短程的雷達波段就比較密集嘛然後呢為了太多的雜訊我要把它過濾掉所以以前無人機有時候會被過濾掉因為小後來發現速度也是一個因素在一定速度以下"},{"start":6562.546,"end":6583.685,"text":"雷達的電腦會自動把它過濾認為這是雜波是不是有這個情形我們會根據目標的速度它的大小我們都會做不同的設定所以這麻煩啦因為它速度慢本來是缺點直升機用機槍就打得了但是它現在因為速度慢我們先進的雷達有時候就把它濾掉了"},{"start":6584.545,"end":6607.394,"text":"我們除了這個雷達以外我們在陣地裡面都有加裝的這個GPS干擾器所以說它越慢其實對它的影響程度會越大它設定它是program它設定的所以第一個原因是因為它速度這個慢速所以便宜它引擎很爛嘛那個50匹馬力而已因為慢速因為爛反而可以躲過我們先進雷達這是一個第二個"},{"start":6608.194,"end":6636.148,"text":"也是因為爛啊俄羅斯用的沙西德有塑膠的有複合材料的有木頭的耶所以對雷達波來講它的穿透性變成比較好不會打回來所以這第二個原因那中國其實有學到一大堆這些低廉低價的無人機這種油彈炸藥比我們的其他的我們還要去做反輻射的其實更貴這種油彈炸藥量大又便宜那第三個它是設定好它可以飛很遠"},{"start":6637.318,"end":6650.863,"text":"所以他在那邊他program之後就事後不理了關你打到什麼有打就好去也不用回來所以這種形態的攻擊我現在只問我們國防部我們現在有沒有能力看得見就是目獲第二個有沒有能力處理它"},{"start":6653.784,"end":6667.992,"text":"報委員 情報次長這邊再跟委員報告因為目前我們伊朗的這個戰事還正在進行當中那有關於剛剛委員所提到的那些在系統上面可能會"},{"start":6669.529,"end":6692.146,"text":"造成的這些效應還有一些西部的工程上面的這些我想跟那天美國國防部他在記者會的時候曾經有提建議過我們大家在討論的時候因為這些目前戰爭正在進行當中可能我們也不太適合在這邊跟委員把我們這邊所掌握到的內容我不問你們有沒有從美方那邊獲得一些"},{"start":6693.496,"end":6717.974,"text":"意見或者資訊的交流這個絕對有這個我們都是在針對這一個事件因為我們是大概全世界四座六座使用這個但我現在不是針對普魯爪雷達有很多高單價比方說沙西的慢速又便宜他很容易發動飽和攻擊的針對民用的關鍵基礎設施重要的軍事設施如果我們雷達他看見反而好難"},{"start":6719.295,"end":6742.893,"text":"他用機槍就可以打下來 看見反而好藍他被綠掉了 反而看不見這是一個問題 我要提醒我們國防部這一種形態就是新的戰場態勢我們以前都研究越先進的 逆中的 高速的這種量工的自動車你看不到他反而麻煩那他量很大 他就設定他飛兩千公里 他會東繞西繞慢慢飛過來所以我進到下一個"},{"start":6744.465,"end":6771.964,"text":"我看到你們的這次檢討報告說要建構台灣之盾來因應類似伊朗這樣的情形那我們台灣之盾其實就三個概念第一個是層層攔截70公里100公里40公里一直到最淨空的防禦層層攔截第二個其實很重要是跨系統整合我們目前為止國造的天宮系列跟美歸的愛國者其實互相是"},{"start":6772.915,"end":6797.618,"text":"要經過JOCC對話 他互相是不能講話的你看到的我看不到 然後你要打的我不知道所以會造成重複打擊也好 或者反應時間會變慢所以跨系統整合 這也是大家要談這個IBCS的原因第三個 其他一個重點 彈藥的存量你的彈藥存量 你的系統再好 彈打完了"},{"start":6798.462,"end":6817.319,"text":"你就要減量只針對高價值保護其他就讓他過吧會變這個情形所以我就這三點請教目前台灣之盾的核心的預算當然是在我們國防特別預算的特別條例裡面在這裡面有關層層攔截你們認為我們台灣最需要補強的是哪一層"},{"start":6818.641,"end":6843.917,"text":"目前最缺的是哪一層現在整個中層跟高層的這個防禦的部分目前來看能夠因應有關共軍的一個防空攻擊跟威脅看起來是沒有問題中高層能力沒有問題 彈量夠不夠彈量目前我們後續會持續的在增強跟控制當中能力夠我就要問彈量嘛好那再來"},{"start":6844.838,"end":6870.671,"text":"那第二部分就是目前來看對於有關第一層應該是講說中第一層的防禦尤其是它的原火營的威脅來說是我們後續會放在整個藍安捷上面一個研討的一個重點原火是最頭痛的它貼地表加上海洋地球曲率海洋的閘波速度又快然後它對面有三個鋁"},{"start":6872.011,"end":6884.505,"text":"所以原火對台灣來講其實是破壞性威脅性很大所以目前在台灣之盾裡面針對中共原火那幾個部署在我們海峽當面的你們在台灣之盾裡面設計的是什麼東西要來應處這一塊"},{"start":6886.929,"end":6910.019,"text":"目前我們規劃就是剛剛在報告當中就是一個希望執行能夠遠程火箭彈攔截低成本的防空武器那這個研討因為這個系統還在研發當中所以我想也不適合在研發的東西有的我聽20年都還在研發目前已經有初步的一個多久可以看到東西你們是研發還是外購"},{"start":6911.466,"end":6928.147,"text":"還是合作我們有自行研發也有評估國外相關的廠商同步來進行當中是不是有現有的裝備可以符合我們的需求但是跟我們台灣合作生產是不是這個模式否則你們從零到開始研發好賣乎啊"},{"start":6928.988,"end":6955.587,"text":"其實現在已經有初步的研究的成果就是天空四行的部分已經有一些天空四行是中高空的 我現在講原火他現在因為四行的部分他同時也可以因應相關原火低成本的那個李士強李院長出來了就是說針對原火你們在台灣製鈍裡面到底設計在層層的哪一層裡面針對原火我們有專門的一型低成本彈藥來執行的案件有方案了嗎有實測過了嗎"},{"start":6957.25,"end":6972.476,"text":"明年明年才實測嘛這是我們自己研發的還是台美合作的自己研發的技術都是我們自己的那接下來就討論到蛋的量的問題這也就是我們在特別預算特別條例裡面有一塊"},{"start":6973.835,"end":6999.829,"text":"當然我們在野黨的朋友有把它拿掉就在地生產這一塊這裡面不只是無人機反無人機其實很多彈藥我們的戰備需求的眾生要在台灣合作生產這一塊其實很重要你在好的系統愛國者打完了烏克蘭現在剩一堆載台啊沒有彈啊你沒有用啊你知道讓他過去嘛所以我的意思說我們的彈藥量就你們目前的評估很簡單一個回答現況喔夠還是不夠"},{"start":7005.324,"end":7026.345,"text":"就台灣之盾這個專案來講我們目前的彈的量夠還是不夠就剛剛的報告我們要建構低中高三層那剛剛盧委員所說我們對於遠程火箭的防禦能量是現在積極要去籌貨因為就我們在做敵情上的所以彈量目前現況是不夠的是所以需要積極的去籌貨那現況是不夠的你們計畫是用採購還是在台生產"},{"start":7027.832,"end":7052.248,"text":"當然現在是希望能夠多多元途徑去獲得我接受就是說有些外購有的在台生產有互相互為備援這我接受但我們台灣生產這塊過去其實蠻缺的啦日本都已經技術合作生產愛國者飛彈了嘛就是說彈藥有很多種像現在155、155它是可以打無人機還打蠻準的但平時不能用"},{"start":7053.149,"end":7072.455,"text":"硬砂在平時你打出去落點在哪裡很麻煩我們平時大概用軟砂那軟硬砂之間有個灰色地帶是雷射大概是要組成這樣的網絡所以我剛才問的問題是現況的彈你們剛才評估是不夠那後續這些彈要縱深的取得是在台生產要不要增加這一塊"},{"start":7075.491,"end":7089.939,"text":"我是侯志志市長向委員報告針對於我們國內沒有產能或是我們國內產能不足的部分我們是運用特別預算採軍購跟商購並行的方式那另外在明年這個特別預算過以後我們針對於這個軍備局"},{"start":7091.64,"end":7108.876,"text":"特別有開14條的生產線包含各式武器彈藥以及我的火炸藥的部分未來我們也希望在我們國內產能的部分能以最大量來生產包含這一次韓國政府輸出許可卡住其實我們有能力的話還是要自己做所以我還是希望國防跟國家安全其實沒有什麼黨派的問題"},{"start":7110.717,"end":7140.177,"text":"我們對美採購當然這個重要因為那是先進裝備但是建立台灣的軍需的供應鏈不管是無人機反無人機彈藥這一些在台台美合作透過八年期的特別預算給予穩定的訂單誘發台灣強大的製造業轉投入這一塊以及我們自己軍工兵工廠能夠提升其實這一塊是整個1.25兆裡面雖然佔比大概三千多億但是其實蠻重要的我們真的希望"},{"start":7141.518,"end":7163.911,"text":"這個東西真的我再講一次沒有黨派的問題這桌子有四張腳你缺了一隻腳桌子就是歪掉了所以我們特別預算有關國內供應鏈這一塊其實還是要強化那因為我不想佔太長時間我兩個題目交給你們事後回答我我在去年提到有關國防大學應該偵涉偵涉我不剝奪現在的偵涉文職副校長"},{"start":7165.612,"end":7193.362,"text":"讓學術跟學術倫理這一塊能夠有一個來自於學術界的文職副校長因為畢竟在國防大學培養的是人才那當時你們回答是三個月內要回答我到目前已經超過時間還沒有答案你們現在就不用回答再來就是有關這一個二月底三月上旬共機的靜默期你們目前有沒有什麼評估這個簡單一句回答就好你們對於共機有一段時間特別是"},{"start":7194.622,"end":7211.47,"text":"美國對伊朗動武的時候共機有一段時間就不見了那最近又有出現的時候當然比較遺憾啦國內有特定媒體是歡欣鼓舞啦那是對台灣的威脅那個靜默期到底是一個對你們來講是一個正向的訊號還是危險的負向訊號"},{"start":7213.895,"end":7240.62,"text":"包委員您剛剛所提的這個13天的時間我們持續在觀察當然這個時間也發生了很多國際事件包含了剛剛您所提到國際事件中國內部也有事件是的那也在兩會期間那所以在這個時間點我們只能跟委員報告我們會持續在密註後續的一些那秦釋是這邊把他這13天的靜默期視為正向指標負向指標還是無法判定"},{"start":7242.04,"end":7243.341,"text":"下面請馬文君委員質詢"},{"start":7279.292,"end":7281.038,"text":"謝主席 麻煩請副部長"},{"start":7291.11,"end":7309.923,"text":"副部長好副部長剛剛我們聽到很多前面委員在關切的很多的議題可是我們好像還沒有聽到很確切的這些答案那大概都是覺得說我們有很重要的需求可是我們到底應該要怎麼樣因應或者從這幾場不管大小的這些戰爭也好或者其他的"},{"start":7316.667,"end":7335.064,"text":"地區的這些戰鬥的這些武裝的行動也好其實我們好像還沒有很明確的找到我們的方向因為俄烏戰爭跟梅伊伊戰爭已經讓全世界看到一個非常清楚的事情就是未來戰場的核心它不再是昂貴"},{"start":7336.485,"end":7344.428,"text":"而精密的大型武器而是廉價大量而且可消耗的系統裝備當然最典型的就是大家現在一直非常關注的無人機的部分那就這個部分我們也看到因為剛剛像媒體在報導裡面又委員提到我們像這一次美軍部署在中東地區卡達北部像我們國軍建置在樂山的這個普魯爪雷達"},{"start":7365.438,"end":7381.235,"text":"歷經兩次的無人機攻擊他就已經損毀了而且至少有一部是建制在約旦的薩德雷達跟美軍負責的中東地區作戰指揮中央司令部的這個部分其實他也都遭到嚴重的損傷"},{"start":7382.777,"end":7386.098,"text":"甚至連以色列引以為傲的這個鐵穹防空系統在伊朗運用高超音速導彈極速彈還有低價慢速自殺無人機混合搭配的攻擊之下其實都被戳破了神話這是我們這一次要探討的我們現在在特別運算裡面也一直提出來剛剛"},{"start":7405.683,"end":7411.388,"text":"副部長有提到有回答一個問題我認為可能是有矛盾的你說我們不會用高價的這些防空武器防空系統去打很便宜的這些比如說像無人機可是我們看到這一次包括美國包括以色列其實他們都是非常強的一個軍事的國家他們在這個部分"},{"start":7429.424,"end":7448.687,"text":"甚至美國兩天都打掉了一年的飛彈的產量800枚以上900枚所以像副部長說我們可以不要用高價的這些去應對尤其是解放軍他們的無人機目前全世界無人機最強的還有戰場環境還有干擾其實最強的就是解放軍所以副部長對於這樣子的一個說法我想可能還沒有"},{"start":7458.849,"end":7469.772,"text":"全盤的去回答像這樣的問題雖然美以聯軍他也是權威度無死角的打擊至少摧毀伊朗兩三千個這樣的軍事目標可是美以聯軍對伊朗持續到現在的戰爭剛剛你們也說現在戰爭還在持續其實已經超過了美國"},{"start":7481.155,"end":7506.869,"text":"川普總統他本來預先構想的他本來可以以為可以像委內瑞拉一樣可以讓他立即的投降可是結果沒有這個才是我們要拿來當成我們應該要借鏡或者我們應該要去檢討我們未來的因應的方向或者武器裝備或者我們的預算的運用上面我們特別提出今天專報的一個主要的目的"},{"start":7508.052,"end":7528.453,"text":"姑且我們現在可能後面還有很多的時間或者我們還會有持續的機會來討論我們未來的一個部署還有我們的預算的一個編列或者我們預算的運用以後的先不看我們今天先來看看剛剛也有委員關切到我們現在的彈藥量夠不夠"},{"start":7531.021,"end":7536.684,"text":"的問題那我們看到M30發射藥根據媒體的報導國軍原本要國產105公里炮彈因為關鍵的M30發射藥"},{"start":7547.045,"end":7550.408,"text":"主要因為205兵工廠遷建而停產只好向國外採購那得標的廠商到現在還拿不到南韓政府的輸出許可我們一直在說我們現在彈藥不足這個明明我們可以自己做的"},{"start":7567.681,"end":7594.615,"text":"這個是112年招標的案子112年2月現在是115年3月整整三年的時間我們卻延宕了這麼長的時間如果說我們連自己可以生產或者我們自己可以控管而且預算已經出去的都沒有辦法好好的做出來你怎麼讓國人相信或怎麼讓我們國會相信這一筆預算未來在公共預算9000多億甚至在"},{"start":7595.675,"end":7612.991,"text":"特別預算裡面 民進黨政府還編了 國防部還編了高達一兆兩千五百億的這樣的預算可以如期如止的可以拿到獲得這樣子的一個彈藥或者其他的武器裝備這個部分我們看到了三個問題"},{"start":7614.98,"end":7619.023,"text":"比如說第一個問題說因為205兵工廠簽件而停產第一個問題兵工廠簽件為什麼會斷產正常的邏輯當初在設計的時候它的保證是什麼新產線完成然後測試成功以後舊產線才會轉備員"},{"start":7637.25,"end":7640.752,"text":"可是我們兵工廠產線它不是一般的工廠它是一個戰備工廠現在卻變成舊線停了然後新線還沒好火藥又停產只能外購那外購現在又拿不到輸出許可一拖拖三年這是第一個問題兵工產線它不是剪綵工程它牽涉到國家的安全"},{"start":7659.92,"end":7687.877,"text":"剛剛我們連這樣子的控管的這個整個程序我們都沒有辦法做到第二個問題戰爭如果真的發生我們的產能在哪裡我們說要有足夠的彈藥怎麼樣才是足夠的我們也不像伊朗我們也不像烏克蘭還有其他的陸路的或者其他的方式可以運進去台灣是一個海島我們周邊最近的除了海洋以外就是我們所謂的解放軍"},{"start":7688.797,"end":7700.106,"text":"那我們到底要如何增加這樣的產能很多人很喜歡講國防自主可是很少人講到一件事或討論到一件事就是當我們戰爭的時候第一波打擊會打哪裡第一波他大概就是雷打機場指揮中心還有就是兵工廠兵工廠一旦被摧毀了彈藥補給也就斷了"},{"start":7711.414,"end":7731.44,"text":"我們現在花了那麼多錢我們看不到我們現在所有兵工設施一直都是在地面現在新蓋的也是這樣啊第二個他都是集中設置還有他根本沒有地下化這一次伊朗其實他可以欺敵很重要的是他的地下化的設施他騙過了美國還有騙過了以色列他們以為已經炸毀了結果從那個地方全部發射飛彈來攻擊"},{"start":7741.443,"end":7758.992,"text":"這是非常嚴重的問題可是我們台灣根本都沒有就這些部分去做檢討只是要一直要經費一直要經費第三個問題採購程序到底在做什麼我剛剛提到的我們在編預算的時候都是非常重要現在一拖三年如果他真的拿不到許可就像顧部長說的"},{"start":7760.333,"end":7776.197,"text":"很簡單一直以來投標之前如果說他不能履約他就沒收他的押標金跟履約金重新招標三年以後如果我們再重新招標他還要多久我們才可以拿到這些火藥火藥以後我們還要自己製造"},{"start":7779.434,"end":7799.095,"text":"你們真的急嗎?這個部分有沒有說明?跟馬委員說明,第一個我們205場的火藥線是在107年拆線的那剛剛陳祿委員所指導的,我們拆線之前都有調查三軍五年內的需求所以三軍都給我們了,我們軍備局也在108年都爐起的工資"},{"start":7801.778,"end":7831.198,"text":"那近幾年來因為三軍的一個實障化跟這個戰備的存儲量增加我們是目前是用110年跟美國進口的量在做那另外針對航法的部分呢我們之前他有給我們回覆是因為他們一個國際局勢跟他們的政府的問題啊我們需要去努力所以再給他展言我們的日期是五月份我們要的不是我們要的不是理由不是廠商的理由然後我們也不是"},{"start":7831.998,"end":7843.702,"text":"如果說我們現在用美方提供的這些原料我們現在可以生產製造我們在三年前我們現在要的是我們的控管今天如果你急著如果連慢一個禮拜排這樣子的一個條例審查大家都會急著跳腳"},{"start":7848.684,"end":7853.169,"text":"那一拖拖三年彈藥的製造這個不只三年因為現在已經三年了如果你再拿到火藥的原料然後再生產製造其實它要更長的時間可能要高達五年甚至更高的時間我們現在要說的是當你這些都做不到的時候怎麼樣去控管其他的我們沒有理由幫廠商"},{"start":7869.429,"end":7876.675,"text":"而且甚至國防部現在是幫廠商去跟韓國透過外交部我們是要求我們國家的外交部去跟韓國協調對不對為什麼是我們幫我剛剛講得很清楚啊我們那時候因為這一家原來是在做什麼啤酒化這家廠商大廠商嗎沒有你剛剛說他是因為韓華得標的嗎韓華是得標的"},{"start":7896.785,"end":7921.975,"text":"對 是韓華不願意 可是因為我們不是直接跟韓華吧你是透過其他的廠商跟韓華採購 是嗎對 跟委員報告 這個合約在5月到期 我們全部都會解約第二個 我們M30在4月15號 中科院給我們建置的已經申請 現在在跟高雄市政府申請火工的一個執照我們4月15號 M30就可以自製了 以上說明"},{"start":7922.295,"end":7925.736,"text":"局長我要的不是這種說明我剛剛說的是你們說我們彈藥缺如果連這種彈藥你說以後多久以後才可以開始尤其高雄市政府因為我們這個牽涉到我們剛剛之前也在關切的那些其他的彈藥的問題我今天特別提出M30這個部分是因為這個案子已經拖三年我們在這個部分沒有辦法及時他當時拿不到112年"},{"start":7949.683,"end":7955.15,"text":"2月得標113年就應該要拿到輸出許可對不對那時候為什麼沒有解約"},{"start":7956.704,"end":7977.404,"text":"那時候是韓華直接說明說他們是因為政府的問題希望能展現那這個案子我們也經過一個國防採購司召集我們我們就給他一個韓華政府就是跟他們政府的協商所以才允許他那這個合約的期限已經到了我們給他的時間就是在下個五月份五月份拿不出來我們就一約我們來解約然後就按我們的政府採購法來合約來執行"},{"start":7982.168,"end":8007.397,"text":"所以照理說我們沒有按照原始合約113年他沒有拿到輸出許可的時候不管什麼理由因為他得標他就是他可以提供而且照媒體的報導其實我們還有其他的國家還有其他的廠商是可以拿到相關的這些原物料的可是我們並沒有這樣做你一拖又拖了兩年然後到今年的五月才要幫他解約這個"},{"start":8008.937,"end":8028.967,"text":"有兩個問題存在第一就是我們每次在說我們非常急的時候是騙人的因為你到現在已經超過三年好像也不急你還讓他拖延了兩年第二在我們所有當我們說我們動藥很缺的時候我們到後來如果不足我們都有理由幫"},{"start":8029.867,"end":8035.392,"text":"很多的就幫很多的廠商去幫他們講話甚至幫他們現在要幫他們解套所以就這個部分我今天為什麼會特別提這個案子出來講是因為當你需要很多高價單要剛剛在說整合的時候今天我們沒有時間繼續做探討我們光是我們美製跟國造"},{"start":8053.027,"end":8073.801,"text":"一個現在已經在用的這樣的一個武器裝備魚叉飛彈跟雄風飛彈我們都沒有辦法整合你還有很多的雷達或者其他的系統要整合你們說的非常簡單所以就這個部分我以後還有時間做探討那我們也希望可以有做一個最後的一個說明副部長就這個案子會怎麼處理"},{"start":8078.991,"end":8095.324,"text":"後續我們會依照剛剛軍備局長所講的就是說假設合約到期如果沒辦法執行的話我們要按照契約來做他合約早就到期了我們順便想要知道輸出許可在5月份沒有輸出許可這是你們後來給他延期的我們現在講的是原始的你採購標準的時候那時候113年他就應該要提供至少如果你給180天的緩衝期你至少在113年初其實也應該要提供了"},{"start":8108.954,"end":8124.964,"text":"所以就這個部分不要去斟酌那幾天了啦你已經拖了三年就這個部分我們不會再給他展援就是依照採購室給我們你有一次展援其實已經很不合理了因為你還有其他的來源當我們"},{"start":8127.887,"end":8138.258,"text":"什麼樣的利益你已經損害到我們的戰力啊你已經有一些空隙產生了然後還有一個時間差這個都已經對我們產生很大的影響如果它不是那麼必要你當初為什麼那麼早招標如果你當初這麼早招標急著要那樣的預算你就應該要如期如始如止"},{"start":8149.71,"end":8151.532,"text":"把它完成我們已經講過很多延宕的案子如果這些都沒有辦法好好的控管我們很難相信你們再更困難或者要更多的高價或者更多的比較"},{"start":8165.268,"end":8183.107,"text":"可能先進的這樣的武器裝備可以做到更好我們會有所質疑這個部分我們還是希望儘速的去處理這樣的案子我們希望知道說像透過外交途徑去協助廠商解決這也是非常不恰當的"},{"start":8184.068,"end":8207.033,"text":"今天他如果沒有辦法自己取得就可以拿到標案然後他出事了才要我們去幫他解決這樣的問題這個都是對我們國防的這個很多的就是我們的制度上面會產生很大的傷害這個部分副部長還有局長就這些我們希望可以有效的一個解決的方案可不可以好 謝謝好 謝謝馬委員的質詢"},{"start":8216.637,"end":8232.1,"text":"下面我們請沈波洋委員質詢謝謝主席 而且副部長 謝謝"},{"start":8240.678,"end":8260.267,"text":"沈委員好副部長好那這個因為我們今天這個最主要還是針對我們這一個不管是防空系統等等之類要來做這個研討那當然因為我們現在在這一個預算上面還有在卡關那我相信呢在下個禮拜我們在審這個相關條例的時候呢應該會"},{"start":8261.387,"end":8281.232,"text":"針對防空系統會有更多的說明因為我覺得有時候在防空系統在回答的時候其實也蠻容易回答到機密事項的所以我現在是想討論就是說因為畢竟從這個去年預算提到現在已經有蠻大的一個空窗期所以我現在想知道的就是說在這個空窗期我們能夠做什麼趕快去彌補這個戰力的空缺"},{"start":8282.833,"end":8301.863,"text":"這個是我在閱讀的今年一月的時候的一份美軍的報告這份報告叫做關鍵基礎設施的實施的保護指引雖然它講的是關鍵基礎設施但是其實說真的都是針對這種小型無人機的威脅基本上我想說應該是適用在國防部的身上"},{"start":8302.503,"end":8318.859,"text":"那裡面呢強調這個所謂的強化隱蔽跟外圍這三個的概念那我就想說因為強化這個我想大概不是什麼太難的事情大概是我原本就有在做就是比如說既有的一些防禦的物理上的措施就是你在物理上就可以直接去防禦"},{"start":8319.72,"end":8338.469,"text":"那這個隱蔽目前來講我們因為隱蔽畢竟在這個報告裡面他說這個隱蔽的成效是最好的然後它的成本也不高那當然它會有很先進很先進的技術比如說像這個微波啊雷射啊等等的但它也有講的是非常一般的技術比如說像我們本來的干擾"},{"start":8339.349,"end":8360.574,"text":"所以就是說我們現在國軍如果說我們從強化隱蔽外圍這個概念來出發的話在我們的防空系統還沒有完全建制完整之前我們會面對到比如說這種無人機的這個飽和攻擊啊什麼等等之類的我們針對這幾項有沒有什麼就是現行我們正在補救的方式至少能夠讓我們撐過這段時期"},{"start":8363.598,"end":8391.385,"text":"第一個部分是委員所提出來這一個美國戰爭部聯合跨機構特遣部隊4014陸軍他成立的一個部隊他在今年的1月30號他頒訂了這樣的一個指引那國防部也看到這個相關的指引其實現在這幾個核心概念是我們現在國防部也在也在積極在做的事情第一個部分是有關這個加固的部分就是說如何強化建築物的設施結構"},{"start":8392.465,"end":8420.344,"text":"所以我們對目前國軍的剛剛我在前面的報告裡面有提到說對於國軍現在的固定的指揮所跟固定的重要設施我們從去年前年已經開始做了一些檢討以及檢測那會從今年開始我們做一些加固的一些設施這是對於固定的部分當然也撫以有關相關機動的部分那第二個部分是有關這個隱蔽的部分它這個隱蔽它最主要的概念說就是希望能夠透過隱蔽偽裝"},{"start":8422.085,"end":8431.112,"text":"降低你的視覺的欺騙 可視度的部分讓無人機的操作所跟無人機能夠難以辨識目標那這個部分我們強化的部分包含到隱蔽偽裝我們也加構了相關的一個偽裝網希望能夠改變"},{"start":8439.258,"end":8455.823,"text":"所有的這個固定建築物外面的一些設施或者加強這個隱蔽的作為讓它的外圍跟衛星上面以及無人機的操作所在實際操作上面很困難去發現到我們固定設施實際的一個位置"},{"start":8456.343,"end":8482.842,"text":"那有關外圍周邊防護的部分它最大的這個核心是它能夠擴大安全的距離並且建立周邊的防護降低無人機接近目標的一個機會那這當然跟我們營區外圍的一個空域的管制有很大的關係但我們在營安條例裡面也已經律定相關的營區都不能有無人機能夠進入跟飛行我們也會做相關的通報以及運用營區智慧戰鬥的方式來應應簡單跟委員做個說明"},{"start":8484.983,"end":8510.836,"text":"因為外圍就是說最後一個外圍這邊當然指的就是說偵測的範圍要變得更廣就是說不能只是傳統的偵測範圍但是這個又牽扯到我們整個的防空系統的建制也是的確我們現在在卡關的部分那裡面有提到一點我覺得特別的重要就是說他有特別提到說現在美軍在訓練的時候他會特別去強調我們的訓練人員就是最後一行他說去觀察那個操作者的行為而不是飛行器的行為"},{"start":8511.516,"end":8525.892,"text":"比如說他們過往花了很大的心力就是整個防空系統建設也絕對是針對飛行器但他們發現在觀察人的行為的時候對他們有很強的一個注意那當然我們現在在這一個購買的過程當中我們跟著都是最先進的技術"},{"start":8526.673,"end":8551.511,"text":"但既然台灣現在作為美國重要的一個盟友然後在對付中國的這樣一個侵略的可能的時候其實說真的如果他們有這樣的一個指引跟建議其實說真的我們自己就可能可以先來試試看就是說因為有時候我們對於對方可能比他們更了解那我們去觀察他們所操作的行為然後去針對這件事情或許更能夠有效這個所謂的飽和攻擊"},{"start":8552.572,"end":8572.586,"text":"那剛剛前面這幾個就是分層整合跟這一個向外延伸剛剛副部長已經講過可能我就不再多說但總之因為現在剛剛講的這些事情它的成本不一定要那麼高那它在我們原有的預算上面應該是都還有支應的空間那我們就是希望能夠在極大化這個效益之下先把我們這個空窗席先撐過去"},{"start":8573.627,"end":8598.778,"text":"那接下來因為從審查一直到增值一直到這個會期的結束我們都不知道到底國防預算還有我們新的這個特別條例到底能不能夠通過畢竟特別條例通過完以後還有預算案的審查有的這還有好幾步那希望在這個當中我們先把這個剛剛講的這個SOP先把它建立起來這個就是希望國防部能夠幫忙的地方"},{"start":8599.558,"end":8616.207,"text":"接下來就是說這個是我在之前質詢其實已經問過因為時間的關係我可能今天也再不多說就是關於情報合作交流的部分因為今天的題目是在講伊朗的發生的這個事情我們可以看到情報看起來還是非常的有用有效的去減少將近這個"},{"start":8617.748,"end":8645.347,"text":"就成了對方的飛彈所以如果我們今天要情報做交流我們之前有特別去強調我們國防部一直都有人員在海外做這些相關的交流這個人員能不能夠增加這是我們過往諮詢一直在提醒的因為這一次伊朗的事情我覺得情報的交換又變成是一個重點但目前進行到什麼樣的地步到底有多少人我覺得不適合在這邊做回答所以這個我先過去"},{"start":8647.808,"end":8662.387,"text":"那接下來呢這一個事情稍微比較稍微我覺得比較重要一點就是這個是最近這個國防部有公告這個體位區分標準但它其實大部分因為我們有免疫我們有替代疫我們有這一個常備疫"},{"start":8663.448,"end":8686.553,"text":"我們現在是很多是跟免疫跟替代疫這一邊中間這個標準是看到有不少民眾的反彈那當然本來應該是內政部的事項不過因為這個標準跟軍運局又有關係所以我想說還是要來問一下國防部我覺得比較重要的一點就是說就是為什麼當時要做這一個體位區分標準它的原由到底是什麼是否可以說明第二個就是"},{"start":8687.293,"end":8707.088,"text":"假設今天有這個必要我們也沒有辦法但是畢竟比如說他今天有可能本來是免疫的那他要進入到替代醫替代醫一樣他現在還是有心訊而且心訊可能拉長那如果他真的會進去到這一邊不管他是性別不安等等之類的在這一個體系有沒有配套措施"},{"start":8708.128,"end":8726.583,"text":"如果說你今天一定要把這一個標準做改變那改變了之後他必須要到做這個新訓或者他要去甚至進入到這個常備役的時候他的配套措施是什麼我覺得這個蠻重要的是否可以先做這兩點來回答我簡單先跟委員做回答細部的部分我請軍醫局局長做說明"},{"start":8727.148,"end":8749.933,"text":"那第一個部分是要修正這個兵役的體會標準的部分因為我們比較在亞洲所有的國家包含到新加坡跟南韓他們所有輕狀人員的免疫力大概在5%左右也就是說100個人有5個人是因為符合兵役的標準不用當兵那台灣我們檢討過去的免疫力大概高達到16.8%"},{"start":8752.193,"end":8770.275,"text":"所以內政部考量整個醫療科技進步跟其他亞洲徵兵制度國家的政策也檢討到橫平性所以我們他們在這個去年5月9號還請國安部來建議通盤修正整個體會的區分標準那第二個部分就是軍事局在接受到這一個"},{"start":8771.917,"end":8797.62,"text":"有關這個醫政司內政部醫政司的來函之後非常的謹慎所以他也已經從去年的5月開始啟動他召集了77個單位這中間包含到衛福部相關的醫院以及專家完成了8次的一個研修的會議也多次的拜會醫政司確立雙方的共識所以這個條例在1月份開始公佈後面6月份再施行"},{"start":8798.18,"end":8815.825,"text":"那這中間的體位區分標準會在中間做一個滾動式的修正假設民眾或者是相關的單位覺得這個條例在執行上面有相關的問題我們會做一個滾動式的調整那有關這一個議政的有關這個替代的部分我請議局局長來"},{"start":8818.092,"end":8847.337,"text":"鮑威好軍醫局這邊做簡單的回覆我們這次的體位區分最重要的精神在於說我們依據我們現代的這些醫療的進步來講很多的疾病上面來講它在治療完之後它的功能上面來講有逐漸的恢復的部分第二個我們在這次的修正裡面最大的改變就是把原來從我們常備疫替代疫到免疫這三分法把它變成說常備疫替代疫AB跟我們的免疫的部分"},{"start":8847.757,"end":8867.535,"text":"那主要的目的也是希望利用細緻的這樣的分別不是用按照疾病判斷就一刀切而他本身有他的功能性來講是他配合我們這個義別上面來講他情物上面的這個特性我們讓他能夠進來主要目的也是維持我們的這個兵役的公平性也能夠符合他自己本身的身體部分"},{"start":8868.676,"end":8894.662,"text":"我稍微再用一點時間我稍微追問一下當然第一個剛剛講說就是剛剛說在世界各國5%那台灣這邊是稍微比較高但因為台灣之前也報過很多這種各式各樣不管是造假等等的事情所以這個可能要考慮進去這是第一個第二個就是說確實醫學有進步但醫學進步不代表它在醫學的治療之下它就有恢復到可以來做這些事情這一定要實質判定"},{"start":8895.322,"end":8914.009,"text":"所以這一個的實質判定還有就是我剛剛講的你今天就算在醫學判定連接到今天兵役說他可以服的時候他進入到那一個環境之下跟他在一般的環境一定會不一樣那這個配套措施就是在兵役環境下針對這些新納進來的人他的配套措施是什麼這個一定要出來因為"},{"start":8914.969,"end":8937.1,"text":"他才會感受到安心他才會知道講說OK那我現在知道你的標準是什麼你為何要做這一個那我進去之後又有什麼樣的資源可以做輔助然後中間可能又會有定期的比如說會不管是要診斷或者說要看要適應這些項目如果都有完整的話這個時候人民才會知道說我們到底想要做什麼事情"},{"start":8937.64,"end":8952.887,"text":"所以我覺得這一方面因為我覺得要趕著上路之前一定要先了解就是現在的人民在想什麼那我記得在應該是在在應該是上個禮拜吧我們也有把相關的一些澄清書應該也都有交給國防部對不對所以這個如果後續還有什麼討論的話我們再繼續在到委員會再繼續來追這一題"},{"start":8958.709,"end":8974.737,"text":"那這個最後有一個就是空軍的問題我這個很快速帶過去大概30秒就好了就是說因為我們現在這個一年內要做完這個體能的這個完測那通常我們是要求要一年之內那結果我們就接到"},{"start":8975.217,"end":8992.516,"text":"有一些陳情就是說因為有一些長官要求就是說第一季就要八成的人那他本來期待是說我希望一年之內我慢慢訓練我慢慢達到結果有一些長官希望他們在前三個月就要先做到百分之八十就要做到那後來詢問的理由當然是因為有一些長官他可能也要一些"},{"start":8994.057,"end":9011.749,"text":"為了一些獎勵制度等等之類的但我覺得有時候雖然KPI是好事但如果因為長官這樣子想對下面這樣要求對他來講本來是一年的事情你就硬要擠壓到第一季做完這個對基層也是一個負擔這個當然也不是只有在這件事情上面任何KPI制度的設計都會有這樣的問題"},{"start":9013.65,"end":9030.061,"text":"所以是否可以回去稍微跟基層的一些長官溝通一下這件事就是說不要說為了這個本來它是好事結果你把好事變成對於基層的壓力我覺得這可能是不妥當的事情這個有事務部長做一個最後的說明就好謝謝"},{"start":9030.401,"end":9047.343,"text":"第一個部分是我們現在年度的基本體能建設我們最主要是希望官兵能夠自主訓練在一年裡面他可以則任何時間讓我們北中南東的所有建設場地實施建設所以並沒有強制他要在哪一個時間之內去完成建設"},{"start":9048.064,"end":9075.888,"text":"那第二個部分就是當然有一些基層的單位的主觀簡單說他們的做法是希望在上半年或在一定的時間之內完成監測假設不合格人員他們可以集中以及針對他不合格的項目來實施訓練讓他們在年度裡面可以達到訓練合格的標準所以剛剛委員所知道我們回去之後我們會加強宣導就是在配套的措施上面如果去強化"},{"start":9076.748,"end":9104.596,"text":"不要造成基層部隊的一些困擾讓他們還是有選擇對 就是讓他們有選擇而且針對他不合格的項目後半段可能有一些時間可能大概上半年完成建設如果不合格的項目可能我們可以集中對他的缺失跟不合格的項目集中如何來針對他的缺失來加強訓練當然在下半年所以當然這是很多基層部隊在執行上面的一些個別的做法那我們下去之後會加強做一些宣導"},{"start":9105.216,"end":9109.238,"text":"跟配套的措施好那就再拜託了謝謝副部長謝謝主席好謝謝我們因為開會的時間比較長我們等一下林楚英委員諮詢完畢以後休息五分鐘現在請林楚英委員上台諮詢"},{"start":9135.884,"end":9138.549,"text":"謝主席 主席有請副部長請副部長林委員好"},{"start":9146.255,"end":9173.854,"text":"副部長我會從這個時事先開始問起當然我們今天關心的是有關於從伊朗戰爭來做借鏡但是其實在這個美伊衝突發生的這一陣子也有蠻多人關心到是中國怎麼突然收手了呢共軍有13天沒有擾台但是如果根據統計共機是減少了但是軍艦部署其實是持續的"},{"start":9175.035,"end":9186.34,"text":"顯然壓力沒有真正的下降只是在過去大家比較關注的防空的這個部分它變少了2025年共軍擾台是3764架次年增23%那麼共艦進入應變區是2640艘次"},{"start":9195.905,"end":9212.351,"text":"那年增是7%喔那麼國防部有沒有針對這樣的狀況到底是一種所謂戰術的變換還是因為剛好我們也在討論國防特別預算的部分全球都在關注的同時喔這算不算是一種障眼法國防部怎麼看"},{"start":9215.587,"end":9243.746,"text":"委員好 我是秦次市市長剛剛委員所提醒的這點其實都是我們在觀察的一個重點因為在這段時間的確在國際上也有很多重要的事情發生包括包括中國兩會的這個開他們的會議那另外就是伊朗的這個戰事那我想這些都是我們在長期需要觀察的那至於您剛剛提醒到13天共機沒有動態"},{"start":9245.808,"end":9256.123,"text":"前兩天他就開始有動態了我想您也注意到我想這個都需要我們一段時間來密切的觀察那如果有進一步具體的東西我們私下再跟委員做報告"},{"start":9256.786,"end":9260.289,"text":"對於這樣的變換當然我認為永遠是來者不善啦如果真的他對台灣要表示善意的話這個對著台灣的這些飛彈啊相關的部署早就應該撤掉了我覺得他可能是換了另外一種套路我想這兩天在社群媒體上很多人都轉po給我們民進黨的立法委員"},{"start":9279.147,"end":9295.531,"text":"我本人當然也收到了那就是呢現在是不是連國際都在示警除了明著來暗著的所謂灰色侵擾更是逐步形成當中這些民兵船不是要捕魚而是數千艘的中國漁船呈現在台灣周邊的一個異常的部署"},{"start":9299.292,"end":9326.426,"text":"那麼這是不是一種明暗之間包括連灰色作戰一起加入的另外一種狀態那這個部分到底我們首先這個訊息正確嗎那麼這樣的一個訊息他所釋放的包括他後面的意涵以及我們如何來應對當然這種民兵確實國防部似乎也只能看著好像是變成跟海委會比較相關但是這樣的灰色作戰的"},{"start":9327.546,"end":9334.963,"text":"增加的狀況底下甚至已經成了一堵海上來包圍台灣的時候那麼國防部跟相關單位又怎麼來看"},{"start":9336.38,"end":9357.16,"text":"第一個部分是剛剛委員所講的上述的報導這個海域裡面活動的船隻它具備了數量龐大高度的同步性而且呈現類似海上封鎖線陣列的一個方式所以它具有軍事意涵上的海上編隊行動看起來它已經不是一個單純的一個這個魚撈的一個作業"},{"start":9360.183,"end":9382.706,"text":"那我們後續研判中共也有可能運用引民帶軍的這個模式強化特定海域的一個控制能力那第三點跟委員報告就是說當然在國防部的部分我們都持續的運用勤奸政的手段來掌握周邊海上的動態並且也會運用多元的管道跟周邊的有門國家共同來關注這個區域情勢裡面的一個發展"},{"start":9383.841,"end":9392.27,"text":"其實這些提醒我也希望透過質詢以及你們的回應的時候能夠讓更多的民眾了解因為在野黨不斷的要去強調是說這些軍購的過程都是不透明的不公開的民眾不知道的那麼其實本席從媒體出來"},{"start":9400.598,"end":9425.114,"text":"我也認為其實適度的透過全民的溝通是非常重要的首先我就要肯定你們日前透過中央通訊社把這個所謂軍購的流程公開讓民眾知道因為很多的民眾事實上在過去他們可能是在最後一刻我們確定得到了美國或是哪一個國家的武器之後甚至於這些武器來了"},{"start":9425.674,"end":9441.155,"text":"他們才會知道但是他們不能清楚的是其實在前期從計畫再到建案的文件然後我們前面的評估需求可能就會高達一到兩年然後才能夠去"},{"start":9442.296,"end":9456.61,"text":"提出發架書的邀請跟要求然後還要給AIT然後透過美國的防安合作局然後才有機會一步一步的跨部會審查進入國務院然後才給來所謂的發架書那"},{"start":9458.932,"end":9475.491,"text":"我本席其實覺得非常開心的是至少朝野有共識3月15號要到期也就是昨天要到期這個發架書有三張有三個部分能夠在這個之前同意國防部授權先去處理但是很多民眾甚至於不懂什麼叫做發架書"},{"start":9476.912,"end":9497.74,"text":"甚至於發架書它的用意是什麼那麼至少我覺得要跟全民來做溝通讓民眾知道其實在這樣的過程當中不是不透明而是很多的部分在前期做的所謂文書工作或是討論的工作其實是要花一些相對的時間而且人家能夠賣我們什麼或者是在他們的產線上面包括後續還要跟"},{"start":9504.662,"end":9509.347,"text":"相關的廠商做締約其實都有很長的一段時間我要強調的是我們談到的不論是剛剛我們今天題目所定的國際局勢的變化美伊之間的戰爭伊朗之間的戰爭又或者是現在中國對我們的從層封鎖這些都是非常重要但是要購得這些軍購都是要時間的"},{"start":9528.985,"end":9549.919,"text":"但是就如同我做這張圖一樣如果現在火就在前面燒但是我們這些水源是被一層一層的鎖鎖住的話那真的是不只是原水救不了進火是連水都沒有所以我想要問的就是目前從去年11月這個案子提出來到現在喔除了有3月15號的這個有"},{"start":9552.04,"end":9574.476,"text":"幾個重要的採購的發價書我們現在有機會可以先鬆綁之外後續還有多少其實是有可能因為卡在發價書或者是更多的期程上面如果不及早審這個預算不審8年1.25兆就會被卡關的部分在今天質詢台上可以說的是不是也可以讓我們知道一下我請站位市長做說"},{"start":9578.446,"end":9603.584,"text":"報告委員,我們的確還有幾個案子目前還在美方這邊做審查要跟委員報告的是大運雖然同意我們去簽署發價書但是後面最重要的還是預算要通過因為我們在第一個年度裡面基本上就要支付3%到5%的生效款是個案的狀況而定"},{"start":9605.97,"end":9609.134,"text":"那後續的話如果說因為"},{"start":9610.083,"end":9637.773,"text":"大約並不是一年365天都在開會的我們比較擔心的是如果這個時間點它剛好就落在會期跟會期之間因為它的效期通常大概就是就從前面看到大概是30到45天的時間很可能會造成這個合約沒有辦法做下去那另外跟委員補充報告發價書它本身並不是一個合約"},{"start":9639.451,"end":9659.369,"text":"Later of acceptance是我們同意美方依據他開出來的條件去幫我們預約所以重要的還是在後面預約的那個過程他會給我們一個時間如果說就像海馬仕一樣他這一次完全不給言的原因是因為他要去做同意預約一旦我們錯過這個時間點"},{"start":9661.371,"end":9677.008,"text":"那我們就是另外再開案子預約所以這個部分我們還是預請大院能夠給予國防部這邊支持能夠盡早的針對條例還有預算的部分能夠做審查那我們後面能夠順利來執行"},{"start":9678.109,"end":9693.422,"text":"好 所以你的言下之意就是在這樣的一個簽署的發價書的過程當中他只是我們同意了因為接下來還要跟一些廠商來做意願而這個才是真正最後包括價格包括數量包括期程 對嗎對所以"},{"start":9695.543,"end":9719.64,"text":"發價書的意思是其他所有想要購買這些武器的國家先透過國家給予了前期的這種所謂類似下訂單但是不是真正的只是需求提出來好那這個部分其實時間點上到底有多急迫或者是還剩下多少時間就像你所說的只剩下30天到40天嗎還是多少時間"},{"start":9721.701,"end":9739.704,"text":"包含預約的部分他會按照個案的狀況而有不同那海馬仕當然會比較急一點的原因是美方已經告訴我們他會在上半年也就是七月之前他會配合其他的幾個案子來進行預約那其他的部分"},{"start":9741.505,"end":9755.189,"text":"標槍跟托式飛彈的部分因為我們採購的數量並不是很多我們還是會配合美國陸軍海軍陸戰隊跟其他採購國家會在他的批量裡面去做採購至於確切的這個時間我們會繼續去追蹤"},{"start":9758.68,"end":9780.795,"text":"好謝謝你給我這個明確的時間點喔那麼下個禮拜我們的召委這個陳冠廷委員會來排相關的這樣的一個預算的審查我們也希望到時候能夠趕得上這個時間點因為這個保護國家沒有在分顏色沒有在分政黨的這是所有在這個島上在這個國家裡面所有的人通通必須要面對的安全問題好謝謝好我們先休息五分鐘"},{"start":9814.943,"end":9815.107,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":10126.581,"end":10130.302,"text":"好 我們繼續開會 接下來請劉許廷委員上台諮詢謝謝主席副部長有請請副部長副部長 午安"},{"start":10150.591,"end":10169.537,"text":"這個今天大家針對這個美伊戰爭的一些最新的一個狀況然後一些內容上面的互相借鏡這個請國防部來做一個專案報告那我想吳俄戰爭跟近期的中東的衝突已經跟世界展示無人機大量的使用基本上甚至是改變了這個戰爭的規則"},{"start":10171.798,"end":10196.271,"text":"不管在獲取人員的訓練或者是反制措施其實都是各國國防政策非常重要的一個改變的軸線大家好好來做研究那麼賴總統也講今年我們要強化台灣的防空有台灣之盾等等的這樣一個倡議那麼針對無人機的部分大概分成主動反制、被動防禦還有引進新興科技這幾個部分今天花一點點時間來跟這個中副部長來做一個探討"},{"start":10198.232,"end":10216.794,"text":"這我想這次大家在看待這次的中東衝突的時候其實大家都可以發現伊朗在這次戰爭好像才是採取不對稱作戰的一方他們大量的使用自殺無人機還有低成本的火箭攻擊各地中東各地的民間或者是軍事設施因此有所謂的飽和打擊一說"},{"start":10217.535,"end":10239.944,"text":"因為我成本低啊所以我的無人機也好自殺無人機也好可以去換掉你昂貴的防空飛彈那因為我量大所以總可以在這個攔截的地方找到破口並且造成大量的損耗這段時間甚至美軍要把韓國的這個薩德飛彈要移往中東喔這顯然這個對於軍武跟飛彈的消耗大概也不是空穴來風啦那我想這是一個蠻"},{"start":10241.425,"end":10255.136,"text":"值得台灣借鏡的一個地方畢竟大家現在講說中共的這個動作頻頻嘛大家也會設定國安的威脅來自於中國大陸那麼根據中共這個北方工業集團去年在珠海展示飛龍300D"},{"start":10256.477,"end":10273.248,"text":"查打一體無人機 號稱單價低於一萬美元可以用於攻擊裝甲目標 執行偵查任務等等小型的FPV的無人機有些是拿來當自殺的無人機甚至有些低的 規模小的 成本幾百美元而已而不只他們在這個無人機的"},{"start":10274.448,"end":10299.48,"text":"設計等等方面有一定的能耐本事他們在關鍵的原料包含稀土包含鋰電池等等在原物料的技術跟門檻上面大概也有很大的一個試戰率甚至有變成戰略物資管制出口的這樣一個狀況那我的問題是這樣現在國防部要建構低成本的攔截的武器請問在國防部的規劃裡面這成本的射算大概是一個什麼樣的狀況因為小型的無人機FPU自殺無人機換戰車那成本是一換一萬"},{"start":10302.381,"end":10330.249,"text":"我一台無人機換很昂貴的戰車大型的無人機我如果直接用自殺的方式或者轟炸的方式去處理軍事的設施的話成本大概是一比一千啦這其實都是以小換大的這樣的一個方式如果對岸有大量的無人機的機隊採取了飽和攻擊的這樣子的一個方式我們的這個成本的設算要怎麼樣來設算才符合所謂的低成本攔截因為低成本攔截是我們的目標嘛低成本攔截數字大概是多少呢是不是可以請國防部示意一下"},{"start":10332.009,"end":10357.45,"text":"委員好 最近是在這邊做了幾個說明第一個其實我們整個從攻擊造成的損害來去評估它這個威脅因此去採取低中高剛剛所報告的三層方式而且要綜合運用要能夠高度感知有效的鑑別之後來去採取最有效的反制的手段那當然在我們火力資源協調程序當中"},{"start":10358.211,"end":10375.007,"text":"以最低效能最具效果的方式火力來去完成這樣的防禦是最有效的手段以上說明所以具體來講是用什麼樣的方式因為譬如說你們好像中科院比如說雷射啊或者是微波干擾等等這個看起來眼下看起來"},{"start":10375.768,"end":10404.874,"text":"好像是一個如果對方量很大好像也只有這樣的方式還是有別的方式我們現在如果面對這樣子的打擊或者是對方所謂用大量造成所謂飽和攻擊的狀況我們現在還是只能用防空飛彈來處理嗎還是有別的因應方式跟委員報告沒有我們剛剛所謂的低中高還有所謂的低成本除了飛彈防禦以外針對這個無人機中大型或者是小型無人機在戰場上各種作戰階段上的洗腦所以我們規劃了低中高三層的方式"},{"start":10405.394,"end":10431.262,"text":"那另外也採取主動被動軟硬砂的手段無人機的反制系統都在這個台灣之盾整個空域空城不同的階段當中來去做具體的規劃我瞭解你有低中高三個層次但現在大家在問的是成本的射算就是我們的低中高如何符合一個相對大家可以承受的這個成本的比例因為對方會以量來壓低成本嘛所以他可能就是最大型而且便宜的無人機的生產國嘛"},{"start":10432.202,"end":10452.146,"text":"那我們的不對稱作戰的戰略優勢就因為這樣子對方的量體而被大量的稀釋嘛那尤其是現在大家還要分比如說我要飛鴻供應鏈當然它有資安被控制的需求這我本期完全同意但是喔這個如果要完全走所謂的飛鴻供應鏈比如說我們同樣是無人機或者是這樣成本上的落差到底是多少國防部有沒有精準的射算"},{"start":10453.663,"end":10467.151,"text":"當然就像對照現在遠程火箭中共的這個遠火PCH-101它單枚火箭的造價那因此我們去採取目前用來最中高空的這個飛彈來去對應那當然"},{"start":10469.713,"end":10487.129,"text":"是不符合成本的需求所以我們才會在剛剛報告我們希望能夠研發低成本反火箭的防空系統所以因此是以這樣子相對應第一個它的造價第二個它所會造成攻擊的損害來去做相應系統上的建置跟接戰的選定"},{"start":10488.496,"end":10507.488,"text":"好 基本上這本席只是要做一下提醒啦因為你如果真的我要在要求你在這裡講出具體的成本恐怕國防部也會有點為難這本席完全都理解國防有些事情是這樣子的嘛但是我要提醒的是這個對方可能會用這樣的方式啦用大量低成本的方式打消耗其實我們最壓力最大國防部壓力最大也是消耗啦"},{"start":10507.988,"end":10527.487,"text":"希望在成本的設算方面能夠想出一套的方法比如說中科院的微波干擾跟雷射武器等等它能不能趕快的有一些比較具體的進度而且這個無人機反制系統的部署其實也不是新興預算應該是例行性都有在執行的這些相關的項目國防部預計要2026年完成相關的系統部署現在的進度到哪裡了"},{"start":10529.366,"end":10543.201,"text":"包委員你所說的系統部署指的是無人機反制無人機反制無人機反制系統就是所謂UDS系統都按照建案的期程規劃在今年會獲得各個固定設施的無人系統的部署"},{"start":10543.735,"end":10571.669,"text":"那陸軍有一個無人機的防禦系統目前按照採購作業的進程正在進行相關的驗收以及後續的接裝的作業這個因為本期剛調來這個外交國防委員會這跟無人機反制系統的報告你會後提供一份讓我可以比較清楚的了解這個相關的一些部署跟騎乘這個麻煩國防部會後來進行這個提供那我另外要提醒跟補充一下的是有關於關鍵基礎設施的防禦"},{"start":10572.449,"end":10597.647,"text":"因為對方如果用飽和攻擊的方式來處理比如說現在大家對油價等等非常敏感那我們的天然氣是大量的依賴這個國外的進口那這些地方很有可能如果真的不幸啊爆發了軍事衝突的時候這些除氣槽啊等等會不會成為被鎖定攻擊的這樣子的一個對象那麼針對這些特別敏感而且會牽一髮而動全身的關鍵基礎設施的防禦攻勢啊現在國防部有哪一些的因應措施"},{"start":10599.497,"end":10627.535,"text":"各位報告我是中科院院長那個我想上禮拜警政署已經開過了公開招商的說明會所有關鍵基礎設施的無人機防護系統會在明年底前完成建置明年底前完成建置好那同樣嘛那這一部分也請這個國防部提供報告我就是希望整體針對無人機的防禦跟反制措施啊我希望了解國防部明確的這樣子的一個期程另外我想問一下這副部長來回答好了這個國防部去年八月就送了無人機戰鬥部隊的加擠嘛"},{"start":10629.156,"end":10639.103,"text":"這大家都會同意的啊那為什麼拖到了今年的二月才生效中間有遇到什麼困難嗎需不需要我們幫忙講講話雖然現在已經通過了但是我們還是趕快關心一下"},{"start":10642.645,"end":10669.553,"text":"委員好 我是資源規劃司司長這個案子我們去年8月送給行政院那因為行政院還是有一個審查程序所以在會了相關部會以後在去年底有了一個審查意見給我們那我們大概在今年的1月5號又再把陳副意見報上去那也感謝行政院的協助在2月13號通過無人機部隊列入戰鬥部隊加急來指令他當初的審查意見是什麼原因才讓這件事延長這麼久"},{"start":10671.383,"end":10694.275,"text":"我想因為無人機部隊對國家對我們來講是一個新建制的部隊啦那包括各部會包括海巡署都有相關的一個這樣子的一個規劃所以行政院主要各個部會還是對於它的一個任務性質跟各部會的一個不同的一個執行性質跟編制在做一個討論主要是這個樣子所以大概到去年底的時候才把審查意見給我們"},{"start":10695.296,"end":10701.329,"text":"去年底的時候才把審查意見給你們所以你們八月送的時候他拖了四個月才給你們審查意見這個好像有點久吧"},{"start":10702.486,"end":10725.338,"text":"沒關係啦,我不為難你啦,因為我們現在政府都很強調國防優先,這本席也完全同意,本來就應該是這樣,而且政府一體嘛,那麼這樣子的一個,本來理論上應該是政府大家都會共同處理,在野黨也不會反對的這樣子的一個案子,你自己中間出現了一些delay,其實是有狀況,你如果難言之隱啦,有的時候利用一下立法院,讓我們幫基層的弟兄喊喊話,也都不是一件壞事啦,"},{"start":10725.998,"end":10749.569,"text":"我不希望內部的一些行政流程有一些相關的一些耽誤那我也要藉這個場合我要再次提醒你們聽就好了啦這個軍人待遇的這個全面增加期求式的增加是有必要的嘛因為當初你們提了一套分別增加的那會造成不願意往上升的狀況啊期求式增加才是對於軍人不管是將官也好士兵也好全部一體式的全面的支持嘛這個也才有助於你去培養新式的專業的"},{"start":10750.789,"end":10772.215,"text":"有強化的精兵的這樣子的一個部隊你才有辦法去操作未來的比如說未來是以無人機為主體的這樣一個戰爭模式沒有一定的專業門檻單靠義務役 單靠絞肉機好像也不是一個好的不對稱作戰的方式本期最後一點點時間來提醒一下希望國防部可以我相信國防部應該也不會反對啦希望我們行政院可以從善如流好啦 幾位辛苦啦 謝謝謝謝"},{"start":10778.632,"end":10781.714,"text":"接下來請黃建斌委員上台質詢謝謝主席我們有請我們副部長請副部長"},{"start":10802.23,"end":10825.441,"text":"華偉好 副部長 副部長 因為這兩年其實都在內政提示到國防外交來那國防外交其實它是一個相對專業而且嚴肅的問題所以很多問題就會跟副部長來就教那我們最近從烏克蘭的戰爭還有以色列的衝突我們可以檢視到一件事情就是世界各國這個先前的防空飛彈系統它到底有沒有用"},{"start":10826.161,"end":10852.975,"text":"那就以我們整個烏俄戰爭以來全球都注意到大量的無人機是未來戰爭的這個趨勢那與此同時呢俄羅斯也在2024年首次把這個極音速就是高超音速的這個飛彈武器投入實戰裡面那在去年九月的時候我們看到這個北京大閱兵中國也展示了他數種極音速的飛彈從反艦到對地一應俱全"},{"start":10853.675,"end":10862.871,"text":"那所以部長請問你看見世界各國這個防空飛彈系統目前對於極音速飛彈的這個防禦效果是有用還是沒有用"},{"start":10864.937,"end":10883.989,"text":"第一個委員所提這個無人機的飽和攻擊的確是未來還有這個這個飛彈的攻擊確實是未來戰場上重要的一個威脅那我們現在在構築這個台灣之盾的這個整個整體防禦系統最主要就是我們希望能夠做到高度"},{"start":10884.87,"end":10913.199,"text":"高度感知這件事情就是我們要建設非常多的sensor去了解敵人去發射不管他的極音速跟這個彈道飛彈或者是巡弋飛彈這要怎麼發射那第二個我們分高中低層來運用不同的武器來攔截他第三個是有效攔截那剛剛您講這一個所有的飛彈目前的整個全世界的防空飛彈防禦系統他確實沒有達沒有辦法去達到百分之百他只能從"},{"start":10914.76,"end":10931.954,"text":"這個有效的攔截率去檢討相對應的這個防空飛彈如何能夠有效的攔截所以對於這個攔截他當然對於防空系統上面沒辦法去達到百分之百但是他確實是相對應的防空武器確實有他的"},{"start":10933.075,"end":10961.629,"text":"為了因應整個中國解放軍的這個武力的威脅所以我們極力的發展這個台灣之盾嘛那台灣之盾是未來要整合整個美制的還有我們國造的這些飛彈系統來做完整的這個防空體系嘛對不對部長是那我們在盤點大概整個防空體系大概六種主要的防空武器嘛就是像中科院自己研發的這個強攻飛彈就是天空試行然後還有這個號稱可以射高達到70公里會站在攔截的第一線"},{"start":10963.589,"end":10986.757,"text":"還有愛國者 愛山飛行的真誠型天光飛彈三型的飛彈還有NASA這些都是為了要做我們完整我們的台灣之盾不過我們在這一次伊朗戰爭裡面看到日本好像在這一次的戰爭發現到一些事情就是它那個極音速飛彈的破壞力它後面很多都是中二的技術資源"},{"start":10987.777,"end":11011.418,"text":"所以他現在極力地要爭取金瓊金瓊是一個多層防導彈的防護系統主要目的是保護美國本土不要被洲際飛彈、超速飛彈、巡弋飛彈攻擊所以它的架構類似於二十世紀八零年代智能暖室的概念"},{"start":11012.239,"end":11019.744,"text":"那我想要請問副副長就是說台灣之盾跟美國現在這個金瓊是哪一個更能夠防守極音速飛彈的攻擊"},{"start":11021.084,"end":11043.782,"text":"我簡單跟委員報告就是這個金瓊跟台灣之盾它確實在這個構想還有層次上面有不太一樣第一個部分是美國防空系統這個有關美國金瓊的這個防空系統那最主要是因應整個全球威脅來做部署那台灣的部分是防禦我們整個本島防衛為主"},{"start":11045.003,"end":11066.821,"text":"那第二個部分就是層次上面會不同因為美國的金瓊它區分了太空、高空、中空以及低空四個層次那就我們目前構築台灣之盾是因應敵情威脅去檢討高中低層那第三個不是武器系統如果這兩個比較起來我們哪一個更適合如果為了安全來說哪一個更適合台灣"},{"start":11068.277,"end":11083.691,"text":"目前來看是台灣之頓比較適合因為你要考量到整個建制的經費以及需求以及防衛的需求上面去做檢討謝謝部長那另外一個問題要提到就是說其實很多會員都提到就是說"},{"start":11084.452,"end":11102.5,"text":"是當現在世界各地的主要戰場都跟美國相關的時候武器的製造跟運輸就非常非常的重要哪些國家可以拿到武器哪些國家必須等待這個一定有先後的問題嘛對不對那如果說我們中華民國現在如同國防部所說的必須要積極的防衛的話"},{"start":11104.386,"end":11117.229,"text":"我們要重視這個問題就是武器要趕快拿到手那部長美國提供武器是不是有先後順序是第一個問題第二個是台灣是不是列為優先的國家那如果不是的話要怎麼解決"},{"start":11121.624,"end":11145.069,"text":"鮑遠在近期美國宣布的資訊裡面,他已經提到了兩個重點第一個是願意針對自己的國防進行高額投資的國家第二個具有戰略關鍵性的國家我們台灣位於整個第一島鏈防守的關鍵位置所以當然我們在戰略上原本就具有重要性"},{"start":11146.471,"end":11161.146,"text":"在高額投資的部分事實上我們在過去這段時間下來我們每年國防預算大概都以百分之八以上在逐年成長也展現了我們願意去投資我們的國防那最重要的就是我們在"},{"start":11162.067,"end":11181.047,"text":"這一次特別預算裡面所有軍購案的協調過程當中美方都強烈的表達對我們籌獲各式重要武器裝備的支持從這幾點就可以看得出來事實上美方把我們列為一個重要而且優先的一個供售對象所以可以確保台灣可以優先的拿到武器嗎"},{"start":11183.124,"end":11197.825,"text":"國外問題就是這樣,我們比較重要,我們的投資也比較多,我們是不是優先獲得採購武器的國家?這個是民眾很擔心的事情。我舉一個例子好了,我們籌購了82套的海馬式多管火箭飛彈系統,"},{"start":11199.347,"end":11219.296,"text":"事實上在同一個時間跟美國籌購這一個同類型系統的不是只有我們而已但是在這個部分美國還是把我們列為一個優先工作的對象所以我們這個部分不僅優先獲得提供而且他提供的套數也比其他的國家更多"},{"start":11220.265,"end":11235.858,"text":"謝謝 因為其實本席以上的這些問題就是其實我們本席對軍購態度都是支持的因為我們要買好的 要買好用得到的然後最重要是可以及時叫貨的我想這個是這一次的重點那只要達到這些本席絕對支持我們國防的這些預算"},{"start":11236.539,"end":11263.176,"text":"那另外有幾個問題我大概再用一點時間就是跟我們台東有相關跟國防相關的問題第一個就是在這個三個會期其實本席有跟國防部來反映就是台東的一些我們的漁民有來陳情就是演訓的時候他們都沒有辦法出海的事情那當時國防部也承諾說會避開漁訓然後盡量時間不要跟漁訓來做衝突那這部分再請國防部這邊來繼續來做加強那另外就是在於整個"},{"start":11264.597,"end":11280.825,"text":"市民也說我們都支持國防但是你也要給我們一條小路啦他們沒有辦法補貼的時候要相對的補貼也要給他們那國防部這邊也有做一些但是有一個就是在中科院好像沒有這部分的計畫所以這個也要請副法官是來來督促一下中科院說這邊呢趕快研議好中科院要回答"},{"start":11289.737,"end":11300.184,"text":"中科院現在的補助是針對我們九棚基地所在的範圍之內那有牽涉到的相關的漁會我們進行補助那台東這個部分的演訓因為"},{"start":11301.533,"end":11327.227,"text":"我們關閉的海域就在九鵬基地這個部分那後面我們會繼續再按委員要求去做更多的彈性這個這邊再請言因為它最後也不可能是用來用漁會的區來限制嘛對不對漁民板就是會移動的還有就是最後一個問題就是也要幫我們國軍弟兄來講話那本期在選區服務的時候其實聽到很多國軍弟兄我們很好奇說你不是快退伍了嗎"},{"start":11328.087,"end":11351.002,"text":"他又留下來 他說因為他聽到加薪這件事情讓他覺得有正門的他說我決定留下來繼續再服務那這件事情是我自己的現任經驗我是義務役的軍醫下士我是一年四個月的役期當年我們要退伍的時候其實部隊的指揮官都會要求我們希望我們能夠留下來 為什麼因為好不容易培養出來的這些"},{"start":11352.143,"end":11379.557,"text":"軍中的人才他會因為疫情結束而離開這對部隊來講是很大的損害我們投資這麼多在國防預算上面我們買這麼多武器最終還是需要有人才來使用人才是重點所以我相信副部長也很支持這些事情所以這個方面是不是請國防部這邊我們一起來加油我們讓軍中的待遇讓地區的待遇能夠再增加然後讓他們安心的可以留在部隊裡面服務那這部分副部長是不是可以有更正面的回應"},{"start":11380.397,"end":11393.381,"text":"目前整個加薪的方案其實國安部已經有妥善的做一些規劃跟政策的說明那之前在之前已經也有詳細的做過報告謝謝副部長 以上質詢謝謝好 謝謝接下來請王逸川委員上台質詢"},{"start":11411.294,"end":11414.357,"text":"好謝謝 召委我們請副部長請副部長黃委員好副部長好上禮拜五立法院有通過可以授權你們去簽那個發駕書簽了嗎是什麼時候簽的在他們加班是在禮拜"},{"start":11436.994,"end":11446.81,"text":"禮拜六的晚上好像特別加班就送到這個美國這個這個駐美軍協組就四分都簽了四分都簽了"},{"start":11450.931,"end":11474.944,"text":"發價書的這個部分我們在上個禮拜五大院同意我們簽署之後我們就已經立即知會美方那AITT這邊在上個禮拜就已經啟動程序所以我們這個3月15號的這個效期已經沒有問題好那之前還有一個3月底的這個什麼要付款的那個"},{"start":11477.79,"end":11504.488,"text":"這個部分要跟委員報告說明一下程序就是我們通知美方進行發架書的作業程序之後會由美國在台協會台北辦事處這邊完成我們已經提供的發架書內容的最後審核遞交給美國國防安和局然後做確認確認完之後再交給美國在台協會的華府辦公室跟我們駐美代表處來進行簽署"},{"start":11506.309,"end":11532.297,"text":"所以這個部分應該會所有的程序應該會在本週左右會完成好所以立法院能夠處理的現在對你們來說沒有困擾了是就世界下就是條例跟預算了是就剩下這個嘛對不對是確定了是好第二個今天這個報告裡頭有提到這個關於伊朗的這件事情請問這個副部長"},{"start":11535.262,"end":11543.416,"text":"這個美伊在打的時候啊你們會事先能夠預判伊朗會用什麼回擊美國會用什麼打嗎"},{"start":11545.497,"end":11568.808,"text":"這一個目前的整個美國跟伊朗的整個攻擊的方式就現在來看當然掀起都會以比較這個威力強大精準的沒有說有沒有超乎你們意料之外目前來看是因為戰爭的發生當然我們不太能夠預期它在什麼時候會發生我都講武器啦現在武器的運用上面是如我們所預判"},{"start":11569.488,"end":11588.344,"text":"沒有錯那這個是全世界都會知道的事全世界的軍方大概都判斷雙方會用什麼來交火對目前的戰爭形態大致上是這好那台灣如果跟這個就是中國啊中國要打台灣的時候你們也可以預判他大概用什麼打"},{"start":11590.569,"end":11619.157,"text":"因為有些牽涉到機密但是簡單跟委員說明就是說知道因為他聯合火力打擊的階段基本上他會用這個導彈巡弋飛彈以及他原火部隊來實施大規模的一個攻擊那你們報告裡頭有提到你們要處理高中低三層防禦體系這三層防禦體系按照目前中華民國的這個武器的"},{"start":11620.118,"end":11622.868,"text":"雙倍啊高中低分別缺什麼"},{"start":11630.969,"end":11658.007,"text":"如同委員剛剛所指導的我們首先要去注意中共近幾年在武力上的發展那所以他不管是在這個所謂導彈還有遠程火箭在這幾年的數量上對周邊還有在演習上都形成極具的威脅那因此我們國軍在多年的這個艦軍備戰下當然在防空武器系統各項的主被動的措施都已經"},{"start":11658.787,"end":11676.38,"text":"逐年在建制 但是考量到中共的威脅不斷的驟增之下因此我們需要台灣之盾分別從低通高三個層次來去建立一個能夠高度感知分層防禦跟有效攔截的整體系統才能夠因應它不斷劇增的威脅那這三個分別缺什麼不好講是吧"},{"start":11685.819,"end":11709.469,"text":"所以這當然在這個特別預算的審查裡面我們會去做說明簡單跟委員包括就是後續我們會因為這要區分硬體跟軟體兩個部分來做檢查意思就是說這個1.25兆的這個條例如果進行相關的審查包括後面預算的審查大概就可以看得出國軍現在對"},{"start":11711.01,"end":11729.528,"text":"低中高這個防禦體系大概缺什麼對那也可以看得出這三層防禦體系之間的整合缺什麼對就是剛剛跟委員報告中間有包含到軟體戰場管理系統整合的部分因為你們現在都講得很籠統嘛"},{"start":11730.936,"end":11757.817,"text":"也不能講得太清楚所以你們現在有把握這1.25兆建制完成之後我們到底動會不會動我們會朝這個方向努力現在來看這整個建制的目標我們努力來達成好那接下來講這個無人機就是說這個有沒有比較低成本的無人機阿強阿勇低成本無人機打我們的時候我們要怎麼反制"},{"start":11759.521,"end":11784.56,"text":"簡單跟委員報告,因為它這個低成本的無人機簡單說剛剛又跟前面的委員做完研討它運用的方式基本上它會在海上用這個船來放置的方式因為它的航程不是那麼的遠所以它可能用海上施放或者登陸之後所以剛剛那個我記得防人委員嘛你打海上一隻船就好了"},{"start":11785.353,"end":11814.418,"text":"那目前我們在已經有做相關的規劃說我們在7月份成立了濱海專案指揮部裡面有整合相關無人機跟反彈的能量能夠有效的對敵人的這個海上的這個船艦的攻擊上面做一個做一個這個裝備好那它對它發動大量的攻擊消耗我們啊我們叫防禦嘛對防禦我們也會被消耗啊我們能夠被它消耗多久"},{"start":11816.82,"end":11840.54,"text":"所以我們檢討這一個我們有區分兩塊一個部分是主動反制第二個是被動防禦那主動反制的部分辦到我們現在後續準備要建置的這個低成本的這個防洪武器或者是我們現在建置的這個固定的以及被固定是機動型的一個反制的一個C型式的反制無人機的一個這都在1.2兆里頭"},{"start":11843.198,"end":11857.02,"text":"這個都在1.65兆裡頭目前都有在建置在相關的這個細節裡面在半導無人載具跟反制系統裡面都有在第三項裡面做規劃還是會在本來的年度預算就有這些"},{"start":11858.052,"end":11878.464,"text":"目前因為他必須要雙軌並行就是說我們現在的反制系統其實我們的軍事預算裡面已經有建制在固定支出但是他沒辦法因應那麼大規模的一個反制武器的一個建制所以特別需要特別預算來做支持OK好那在這報告裡頭啊有幾個用字啊這個請你們說明一下你說"},{"start":11880.441,"end":11896.434,"text":"在現有飛彈的技術基礎上,研製及籌貨可執行遠程火箭彈攔截至低成本防空武器你們用的文字叫研製及籌貨,這看起來應該現在沒有現在已經有在,因為這個是"},{"start":11903.274,"end":11915.349,"text":"包委員我們現在是有能力但是為了能夠達到低成本我們不要用這個不管是現行的防空系統去浪費我們的國防預算好OK那我懂"},{"start":11916.089,"end":11933.3,"text":"那第二個你們也提到說你們要同步籌購及部署右標假目標衛星定位干擾等等等等等你們用的文字還是籌購跟部署代表這個現在沒有對不對"},{"start":11935.858,"end":11962.991,"text":"現在已經有在做辦到我們的這個偽裝碗矯型的反射器還有我們現在電子衛星的干擾系統現在其實已經有在建置當中但是它的數量不足以因應我們要滿足那麼多的一個軍事設施以及政府的關鍵基礎設施所以我們必須要後續持續的來籌建也藉由這個預算來支撐也都在這個特別條例裡頭是"},{"start":11964.392,"end":11986.04,"text":"就是剛提到這些所謂的籌購及部署這個概念是說現在不夠然後要增加那增加包括用買的跟包括中科院自己去做的所以需要這個特別條例然後需要這個1.25兆來把這一塊補足是也包含在這個裡面"},{"start":11987.523,"end":12002.508,"text":"那我請問一下,如果沒有這一點的護照,像在美國跟伊朗這一場戰役裡頭啊,哪一件事情就會發生在台灣?現在媒體報導說這個伊朗啊,美國的飛機飛彈飛進去,伊朗都站在那裡,不知道發生什麼事,就叫他們打,那台灣會不會這樣?"},{"start":12008.961,"end":12029.207,"text":"當然我們現在持續在精進我們的建軍備案工作固定的國防預算可以勉勵去維持我們現在的軍事能力但是我們要考量的就是說因應未來的戰爭確實有必要一次性的來提升國軍的戰力也能夠兼顧到政府跟"},{"start":12030.968,"end":12046.798,"text":"這個社會在關鍵基礎設施運作在戰爭當中能夠正常運作最重要的是我們也希望能夠保障台灣人民的生活財產的安全所以希望一次性的能夠提升這樣的一個戰力我想這個固定的國防預算"},{"start":12047.338,"end":12062.432,"text":"跟我們現在的這個特別預算能夠雙軌並行能夠很迅速的提升我們國軍的戰力也同時藉由各種的方式讓國軍的人才能夠水準能夠提升這種雙軌並行來提升我們國防的好 謝謝副部長"},{"start":12063.573,"end":12084.401,"text":"也期待你們接下來趕快跟國民黨立委好好溝通把這個嚴重性、重要性不管公開溝通、私底下溝通都請國民黨跟民眾黨的立委多多協助讓我們這個特別條例跟後續相關的預算能夠儘早通過好 謝謝謝偉"},{"start":12090.112,"end":12093.253,"text":"接下來請徐巧欣委員上台質詢謝謝主席那我想請這個副部長然後應該還有我們採購室主任然後還有陸軍司令部參謀長一起採購室主任陸軍參謀長請就位"},{"start":12118.945,"end":12133.322,"text":"是我想先請問一下我們陸軍是不是最近有一個採購案是關於這個陸軍機敏資安核心然後總決標金額一共是6.1億的一個案子"},{"start":12134.042,"end":12139.245,"text":"幫委員是的在114到118年好114到118他是什麼時候來這個進行這個這個標案的時間去年底決標的好去年底決標的嘛那所以等於說是我想好今天要跟你們討論一下這個案子那呢他一共這個決標金額是6億1那當然我在這邊已經寫得很清楚了是希望說能夠呢升級基礎設施嘛"},{"start":12163.18,"end":12180.59,"text":"那我問一下當初來這個參與標案的這個廠商有幾家分別是哪幾家有三家中華電信華晶科技還有這個中光電最後是哪一家得標中光電那請問一下這三家分別的資本額是多少"},{"start":12183.064,"end":12208.452,"text":"這個資本額的部分要包含到因為三家也都是上市櫃公司對啊但還是有資本額跟他的這個核心技術的差距嘛不然所有上市公司都是一樣的嗎當然不一樣嘛所以我問一下中華電信華晶資訊跟中光電他們分別的資本額是多少錢向委員報告中光電我們知道大概32億但是華晶的話32億你確定喔2億吧"},{"start":12210.425,"end":12227.016,"text":"我記得10週資本額2億抱歉抱歉請問一下各位2億跟32億差很多華晶是5億華晶是10.7億中華電信是1200億幫我核實一下我的數字是否正確因為我是查過的然後剛剛你說32億也不對確實是我說的2億"},{"start":12228.977,"end":12241.628,"text":"那我很想請問一下就是說這家中光電那我們先我們先看資本額等一下我會跟你討論核心技術等等一個一個討論下去那中華電信華晶資訊跟中光電這三家那他們來針對資安設備的部分來進行投標中光電他能夠勝出的理由在哪裡"},{"start":12252.733,"end":12274.029,"text":"報委員我簡單報告一下這個評選委員最主要是有九員那軍方的內部是兩員通常到學者專家學者專家然後我再問嘛就是那你總要知道說這個最後得標了中光電他得標這個是我們陸軍機敏的這個專案那他的優勢優於華晶資訊跟中華電信優在哪嗎他有什麼特色嗎"},{"start":12281.278,"end":12307.749,"text":"向委員報告因為手上的資訊沒有但是我們剛剛這個委員啊所有的委員都是經過這個我不管你委員我問你的問題你回答我就好因為你今天三家來標然後呢你也標給了這個中光電了然後呢我問你說那中光電它提供出來的內容有什麼是能夠優於其他兩間所以它被選擇無論是軍方的參與或是專家學者的參與它勝出的原因在哪裡"},{"start":12309.029,"end":12328.14,"text":"這個部分的資料我們可以私下跟委員報告為什麼要私下報告呢公開不能講嗎因為這個評選的資料有些是不宜對外公開的好那我告訴你公開的部分是什麼好不好也就是其他廠商的核心設備他們拿出的中華電信跟華晶資訊他們都有CP、Sysco、Jumpeter"},{"start":12328.82,"end":12354.809,"text":"但是呢 中光電跟別人不一樣中光電它選擇的是這一家這個叫做Fortinet的這個防火牆所以最後我們選擇了它我想要請問一下你們軍方有沒有了解中光電所提供的這一套Fortinet它這一套資訊系統好還是不好有沒有在國際上受到什麼樣的批評"},{"start":12356.069,"end":12381.649,"text":"報告委員我就兩點向您做回覆第一個有關於這個媒播報導的這家媒體報導的事情他事實上並不周全而且有因為你回答我的問題就好了嘛周不周全那是我今天我當然今天有一家媒體他做了很多的系列的報導那我也只會拿我認為裡面有道理的部分來詢問你那不是說我今天把所有的新聞然後全部列出來我詢問的剛剛很清楚了"},{"start":12384.031,"end":12412.816,"text":"就是說這套ForeignNet是中光電提供的資訊系統對吧是有錯嗎沒有嘛那我問你這套系統你認為它優不優秀有沒有其他的漏洞可言我就兩點向委員報告第一個它所提供的必須要符合國防部它所規範的營區網路的建置的期待你沒有回答我的問題我問的是這套系統第二點有關於這個您剛才講到這個ForeignNet這個對"},{"start":12414.276,"end":12437.541,"text":"網路漏洞我們目前沒有收到國防部以上的這個防火牆的漏洞報告那我請問一下荷蘭軍事情報局安全局那他們有沒有在2024年曾經發布一個報告提到這套系統它有被中國中國大陸這邊然後呢有駭客的漏洞"},{"start":12438.015,"end":12445.003,"text":"他們曾經駭入過荷蘭的國防部在內有兩萬台的相關設備你們知道這件事嗎我們一切會依照國安局所通報的機制來做審問那你國安局的機制歸國安局的機制我現在問你是一個事實的部分就是說你們有沒有去掌握到這一套系統"},{"start":12457.458,"end":12477.296,"text":"在荷蘭他當初被使用的時候他們的國防部有提供一個報告說明了就他們實際上在運作的時候有兩萬台被中共去入侵到他們的系統裡面包委員現在這個案子還在廠商提交服務計畫書的階段如果今天報導"},{"start":12478.137,"end":12495.834,"text":"或是委員的指導認為這個有疑慮事實上我們會再請教國防部跟國安局那我告訴你建制和所驗收的系統一定要是符合國安局的機制所以這個部分不是只是國安局它有它的機制但國安局它也不是神它也有可能有漏掉的時候"},{"start":12496.815,"end":12502.958,"text":"所以這本來就是雙方大家要有一個互動嘛那我剛剛提出的就是說荷蘭軍事情報局裡面就出過一份報告裡面寫什麼呢他們的防火牆被中共的駭客攻破以後他還會植入木馬這個木馬呢他即便軍方重新開機這是報告裡面的內容我都看過報告了那你進行任體升級之後他這個後門還是會在"},{"start":12521.007,"end":12524.148,"text":"所以變成是說這套系統它從荷蘭這是荷蘭方講的他們的實務經驗就是它有一個後門會被植入木馬植入木馬之後就算你去做更新這個木馬還在所以就變成是說你以為你買了一套資安的設備但其實你讓中共有了一個後門的機會有一個植入木馬的機會"},{"start":12542.754,"end":12561.849,"text":"那請問一下如果是這樣子的話專家跟委員跟你們在這個標案的過程當中都沒有把這些事情考慮進來的情況下那裡面是有中共同路人還怎樣啊包委員我再次強調我們不會堅持要用這樣子的系統如果有這樣的疑慮在服務計畫書裡面廠商要有完整的說明而且要經過"},{"start":12563.15,"end":12590.822,"text":"國安局和我們的聯六所那你們在當初這個開標的時候有沒有就是你們在討論這個標案的時候有沒有把這些事情就是一起討論在裡面嗎還是你們什麼時候才知道說荷蘭人家是荷蘭人家是有做這個報告然後有提到說有漏洞的問題啊你們什麼時候知道這件事情的不可能是我現在跟你講你才知道吧我沒有參與標案所以這個要在10號了解之後向您報告那你們需要花多少時間了解"},{"start":12593.922,"end":12594.908,"text":"因為這是滿嚴重的一個問題啊"},{"start":12599.656,"end":12621.67,"text":"我們在本週終於了解到因為我告訴你這我不是要挑你們麻煩因為這是蠻嚴重的問題我重複一遍因為其實中華電信跟華晶資訊那都是對於資安他們有尤其我說中華電信好了我不要講其他的中華電信跟我們之間這個政府部門之間本來就有很多資安上面的服務跟協助那人家其實是相當專業的資安的這個防護系統結果選了這個中光電原因剛剛也聽不出來"},{"start":12627.253,"end":12642.889,"text":"那選了中光電那它其實它的產業主要是在服務這個像比如無人機啊或是這種無人狗啊等等的它也不是以一個資安見長的一個公司然後呢再加上它所提供的它目前所要提供的這樣的一個系統"},{"start":12643.49,"end":12661.521,"text":"因為荷蘭就曾經已經被他們揭露過說會被中共植入木馬所以它是一個有資安程序的資安疑慮的問題那我想要請教一下那如果說對方要提供的是這樣子的一個系統那我們後續你一個禮拜之後你發現說真的有所疑慮的話那國防部這裡要怎麼處理"},{"start":12663.766,"end":12689.804,"text":"我再次跟您報告上述的參加上述的三家的這個競標公司都是符合相關的規定資格的那第二個我剛剛也說了符合資格是不是設備要通過國安規定的認證然後呢那請問一下這個認證的部分中華電信跟華晶資訊我知道都是在得標之前就已經送給國防部請問中光電是什麼時候送進來的相關認證這個報導上面所說的與事實不符"},{"start":12693.166,"end":12696.268,"text":"那是什麼時候不是報導一月份才送審我要問是什麼時候我剛剛沒有說是幾月份請你聽清楚我的問題我問的是說呢這個中華電信跟華晶就我確實知道是說它是因為本來就應該在你要這個送進來的時候就要有審核嘛"},{"start":12711.44,"end":12725.675,"text":"所以我問的是說那好那你這樣講這三家中華電信華晶資訊中光電他們分別針對國安認證的部分是在什麼時候把相關的設備交由國防部去提供相關的這個認證說明的"},{"start":12729.158,"end":12746.005,"text":"你三家都提供時間點就好了呀我是給你一個澄清的機會嘛我這要比較完整跟委員報告第一個這個依照BNS的採購清單裡面就是國防部核可我們雖然是陸軍建制但是我們要能夠跟國防部的整個相容性和安全性做借接那"},{"start":12746.425,"end":12768.192,"text":"在這個招標的這個商情裡面我們發現有部分的清單他可能面臨到消失性的商源還有並不是優歸所以我們請得標廠商提供相關的優歸的記錄並不是如報導所說在招標評選會上面他沒有拿到國安的資安認證那請問其他兩家都是一開始就OK了嘛對不對"},{"start":12769.093,"end":12773.938,"text":"您 對不起 抱歉我沒聽清楚就是你剛剛講的是說因為你認為說這其中一家廠商或者是因為你沒有講是哪一家廠商你就說有廠商然後呢他可能在這個過程當中你認為有一些需要補件是嗎 是需要補件所以你後來請他補件 對吧"},{"start":12784.89,"end":12799.46,"text":"就請他提供這些在B2S清單裡面可能面臨消失性傷源的我們請他提出優歸的其他的系統讓我們做審認那其他兩家不用的原因是因為他沒得標嗎"},{"start":12800.661,"end":12814.734,"text":"那他有 他當初在這個投標的時候有提供相關的內容嗎因為如果人家有那他沒有的話然後結果他卻被選出來那不是一件很奇怪的事嗎是 他這些提供的都有在BLS清單裡面但是因為我們去審認"},{"start":12816.295,"end":12830.874,"text":"面臨到這些系統裡面我們要選擇更優歸和有一些可能面臨消費性傷害源的我們就把它摒除掉好那我以上做一個結論因為也沒有時間了就是說呢你們在這麼重要的資安設備而且金額高達六億多"},{"start":12832.336,"end":12836.561,"text":"然後呢我們我不知道為什麼學者專家或你說的裡面也有國防部的人沒有選擇這種聲譽很好然後呢也長時間在經營那這個資安系統的包含中華電信等等的那要選擇一個資本額比較低的中光電他也主要不是做這個的"},{"start":12850.498,"end":12872.373,"text":"那這我也都不跟你提了但他最後他選擇的這樣子的一個系統如果他曾經在荷蘭所發布的報告裡面有提到他有被兩萬台的設備被中共植入木馬被駭客入侵的情況那我們要審慎思考是不是還要跟這個廠商合作或者是要如何去修改一個禮拜之內可以給我回覆嗎"},{"start":12873.153,"end":12893.22,"text":"是 那我也在一個禮拜內跟委員回覆那我也要再次跟委員澄清報告這個任何治安的建制一定是以國家安全作為最高的當然啦 但我剛沒跟你講的時候你也跟我說你也不知道荷蘭他們的狀況啊所以我就說你們當然是你怎麼可能你會在台上講說哎呀 我們治安不是很重要這個當然很重要嘛 對不對"},{"start":12893.82,"end":12923.107,"text":"可是說這個疑慮的部分你們沒有提早發現那要我現在跟你們說你們才要一個禮拜的時間去調查類似的事情我希望以後在資安的不管從投標開始審查過程專家學者軍方都要更仔細詳細的去做調查以後才讓對方去得標否則類似的疑慮會很多而且後續你們如果還要再修改的話也會讓國人有更多的疑慮那也會對於你們的流程跟程序來說增加更加的負擔那其實是沒有必要的好不好"},{"start":12923.567,"end":12926.79,"text":"所以麻煩一個禮拜的時間 回去瞭解一下 謝謝謝謝 就這個案子 因為BNS不是一般的資安防火牆它是我們很重要的 我們國軍的營區網路管理核心系統也是重要的軍網中樞所以如果這個發生問題 對我們會造成非常大的傷害"},{"start":12947.91,"end":12970.006,"text":"所以就剛剛徐委員所提出的我們一個禮拜之內做一些調查順便也提供就是在那個因為招標文件也明文規定說設備必須通過國安規定的認證那三家廠商他們提供的認證到底是什麼時候也一併提供好 謝謝接下來請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英 楊瓊英委員不在請李坤城委員上台質詢"},{"start":12983.274,"end":12987.097,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那就請副部長請副部長李委員好副部長 這個媒體有報導美國宣布有200億美元的軍售要給台灣這個有140億的對台軍售還有60億美元的不對稱的作戰的裝備那副部長有聽到這個消息嗎"},{"start":13011.1,"end":13018.368,"text":"有那這個是不是就是日前我們所編的1.25兆預算裡面的其中一部分市長對於媒體報導的這個數字"},{"start":13026.681,"end":13051.038,"text":"我們目前第一個部分我們跟美方提出的這個部分是有我們確切的暗想那媒體裡面所提到的這個金額的部分他並沒有很詳細的去敘述這些到底涵蓋了哪些項目所以這邊也無從去了解說他提的這個部分是講的是哪一些我們所希望籌購的東西"},{"start":13052.839,"end":13079.784,"text":"那我的意思是說因為現在它有一部分是111美金這個已經是確定了然後接下來這個有第二階段應該是有第二階段的這個軍售要給台灣那有接受到美方這個訊息嗎我們先不要講是金額會有多少好了我們現在獲得的訊息是我們已經提出針對特別預算的案項裡面美方都按照正常的進度來進行審核"},{"start":13081.547,"end":13102.86,"text":"那所以就是說有可能 因為現在有院版 國民黨 民眾黨那這院版完全是跟美方都已經是協調好的這一個 包含這一個項目 也包含這個金額那我的意思是說 接下來美方宣布要賣的 應該就是我們跟他們協調好"},{"start":13104.738,"end":13112.914,"text":"打算賣給我們的東西就對了那如果這樣子的話那如果近期美方不管這個這個川習會是"},{"start":13114.708,"end":13136.961,"text":"會不會見面會不會延遲我們不知道但是有機會在近期再宣布會有這個第二批的武器再賣給我們嗎應該是有機會好那今天的題目是防空反飛彈系統的效能低成本攔截手段無人機的反制能量那我想請問一下副部長跟司長這個有呈現在我們的這個特別預算裡面嗎"},{"start":13139.332,"end":13160.16,"text":"包委我們在特別預算裡面的第三項裡面我們就已經有提到我們要建構反彈防空等相關系統然後在第五項裡面我們也針對人工智慧輔助決策系統跟C8SR的這個部分做了一個規劃所以相關的案項事實上"},{"start":13161.801,"end":13181.619,"text":"有一部分是納在我們特別預算裡面但是要跟委員報告的是我們的整個台灣之盾的建立不是只有這個特別預算我們是奠基在過去已經建立的防空能量為基礎然後透過這一次的特別預算裡面去強化它的能量"},{"start":13182.119,"end":13211.122,"text":"但是在公務預算的部分我們還有其他長期性的規劃他可能不是在我們這個時間之內可以完全獲得或是在研發上面我們仍然必須等待的那這個部分比較具有不確定性的部分我會納入後續的公務預算可是就整體而言在這個台灣之盾就是特別預算裡面的台灣之盾的項目如果能夠完全獲得他可以大幅提升我們目前高中低三個空城的一個防禦能力"},{"start":13211.482,"end":13228.634,"text":"好那請教一下那目前這一檔的版本有納入今天我們所報告的題目裡面嗎沒有沒有嘛對不對沒有在這裡面嘛對不對對啊那所以今天要報這個題目那其實也是給你們一個跟大眾說明的一個機會我們台灣之盾"},{"start":13229.127,"end":13245.084,"text":"要建構不管是低 中 高的這個防空的戰略特別預算裡面已經有納進去了那包含市長所講的在這個常態的國防預算裡面也有但是這次的這一檔的版本都沒有就對了"},{"start":13247.59,"end":13267.118,"text":"目前兩個在野黨的版本主要是針對已經公布的軍購案的部分那其他的規劃的部分並沒有納入好 那再請教一下就是說在這個2024年6月的時候這個前美軍印太司令的司令帕帕羅他有提出一個地域景象"},{"start":13267.697,"end":13297.097,"text":"那地域景象當然就是說就是一個用無人機或是無人艇的一個不對稱的一個作戰那請問一下那這個地域景象有沒有符合我們目前的這個不對稱作戰的一個需求這個當然是符合我們目前不對稱的作戰需求這為什麼我們在這一次的這個特別預算裡面我們針對無人機跟反無人機的這個系統還有其他無人系統的這個部分我們有相當程度的琢磨而且我們希望這些系統都能夠在台灣產制來增加我們的韌性"},{"start":13298.137,"end":13325.271,"text":"那所以你看這個美國打伊朗那現在其實你就知道說這一個無人機它的重要性在哪裡無人機的重要性其實從兩亞戰爭的時候我們大概就可以看得出來無人機已經成為目前整個戰爭的一個新趨勢它改變了過去傳統兵力以及戰力以對稱的方式來進行交戰的這種模式無人機的出現改變了我們"},{"start":13327.492,"end":13343.38,"text":"針對火力 針尖以及其他各方面的一個估計所以這個部分我們也汲取其他國家的經驗來做整個評估以及未來的籌貨規劃好 那所以這個也是在我們特別預算裡面有嘛對不對是那所以那再一兩版本也沒有"},{"start":13344.623,"end":13373.023,"text":"沒有那所以今天這個題目我是覺得說這個也蠻弔詭的那其實也剛好利用這個題目來跟大家說明我們台灣之盾或是說我們有關這個無人機無人艇的這個不對稱作戰所需要的這些項目跟金額都完全沒有在在野黨的這一個特別條例的版本裡面目前的版本裡面是沒有的都沒有那我期待啦至少有附委審查了"},{"start":13373.621,"end":13393.514,"text":"期待在接下來軍購條例的聯席審查會議當中能夠願版的不管是台灣之盾或是不對稱作戰所需要的這些項目都能夠保留下來這個對台灣來講才是整體的建構我們國防的安全好 謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":13399.127,"end":13406.369,"text":"接下來請王洪威委員 王洪威 王洪威委員不在 請賴氏寶 賴氏寶 賴氏寶委員不在 請郭鈺晴委員上台質詢謝謝主席 有請副部長 請副部長郭委員好"},{"start":13429.481,"end":13434.341,"text":"好 請教一下副部長 這個國防預算特別條例我們是什麼時候送進立法院的"},{"start":13436.98,"end":13459.632,"text":"11月底對不對應該是11月底去年的11月是是是沒錯是去年的11月底那現在其實又有一些聲音說這個國防部可以編列在這個年度的預算當中但是我們的這個115年就是今年的中央政府總預算是什麼時候送進來立法院的您知道嗎去年的8月29號"},{"start":13461.514,"end":13479.953,"text":"8月29號現在已經躺在這個程序委員會已經躺很久了然後再來我們的這個國防預算特別條例也躺很久了一直躺到現在那尤其是中央政府走預算已經躺到現在我算過了啦如果要把今天也一起算進去的話整整躺了200天已經躺了200天了好"},{"start":13483.516,"end":13504.585,"text":"那所以今天我想這個我們的委員會特別排了這樣子的一個這個專案的報告那我想我的大概也看過了那這個專案的報告內容其實非常非常完整那也非常的攸關我們的這個國防的安全尤其是在建構這個所謂的台灣之盾身上那我想這個規劃透過這個高中低層的一個"},{"start":13508.707,"end":13522.883,"text":"分層的一個防禦那結合多項的包含是整合天公啦愛國者啊等等的這些系統那同時也要發展所謂的這個低成本攔截武器跟這個無人機反制的一個能力喔但我想喔我們講了這麼多"},{"start":13523.944,"end":13542.877,"text":"那我們的這個報告專案報告當中其實內容我看過也非常非常的完整那我想請教一下剛剛其實這個我們的控制委員也特別提到請問現在就是在在野黨他們所提出的這樣子的一個預算的版本當中這些部分有沒有被納入我再請教"},{"start":13547.63,"end":13566.047,"text":"因為目前在野黨所提的兩個版本都是針對已經美方已經智慧國會同意共受的項目所以其他的部分是還沒有納入都還沒有納入所以今天我們特別有這樣子的一個專案報告好沒關係那我們也來請教一下就是這個國防部"},{"start":13566.687,"end":13569.748,"text":"那我看到這個報告當中當然也指出要導向這個導入這個AI的人工智慧戰場管理的一個系統那我想這也是整體方面我們確實也符合這個外界長期一直不斷地在強調的包含多層的這個據指"},{"start":13583.772,"end":13603.044,"text":"那精準的打擊那另外還有分散存活跟快速的一個決策這樣子的一個防衛的一個思維其實是非常好的但是我想請教這個國防部的部分就是這個報告當中其實都有提到多項的關鍵建軍的一些項目那包含是強化防空的火網"},{"start":13603.704,"end":13616.427,"text":"那麼再來是低成本的攔截的武器還有無人機反制的一個系統喔那我想呢這些所謂的具有極破性的這些建案回歸到所謂的年度的預算當中請問會不會影響到台灣之盾的防空體系的一個建制的時程這個是第一個問題喔那因為今天時間有限喔那我把第二個問題第三個問題問完之後"},{"start":13625.809,"end":13651.829,"text":"如果說來不及在我們的質詢當中回答的話那麻煩再給我一些書面的一個報告那第二點呢就是在報告當中也特別因應想強調這個因應我們的一個敵方有可能會採取所謂的多波式或者是多彈種的一個混合的一個攻擊的一個模式那我想的這個部分呢包含是彈道的飛彈那巡弋飛彈跟大量的一個無人機那以目前我們國防部的財政的規劃"},{"start":13653.39,"end":13670.124,"text":"我們能不能夠支應這些所謂的不對稱戰力的快速成長的一個所謂的需求這個是第二個問題有關於預算的這個部分向您報告因為我們在這一次裡面委制跟商過的部分它的佔比大概是三千餘億左右"},{"start":13670.904,"end":13699.2,"text":"那這些籌貨的項目都是預划未來5到6年之間要籌貨的如果全部塞到公務預算去的話每年增加的額度大概是500到600億台幣左右那依照這個額度的話除非大幅擴增我們公務預算的額度否則就沒有辦法去支應那擴增公務預算我們的限制是我們也不希望排擠到其他部會及民生經紀人各方面的一個安排"},{"start":13699.58,"end":13725.442,"text":"所以就籌獲的時間跟預算穩定的這個角度來看我們還是希望大院能夠同意我們這些相關類項目採取特別預算來指引好我想呢這個國防部的態度也很清楚那其實我們立法院當中我們也很希望能夠趕快通過這個國防預算的特別條例我想這個從去年的11月底送進來到現在其實已經躺了很久了那更不用講這個115年的中央政府總預算"},{"start":13728.264,"end":13747.436,"text":"8月29號送進立法院到現在整整躺了200天我們在這裡也呼籲一下這個在野黨喔大家都知道國防很重要安全很重要人身的安全很重要台灣人民很重要但是這個部分我們還是要來支持國防部好嗎好 謝謝 謝謝謝謝主席"},{"start":13750.389,"end":13761.235,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前鄭正前委員不在請羅明才羅明才羅明才委員不在請陳冠廷委員上台質詢那麻煩請副部長請副部長"},{"start":13781.886,"end":13800.265,"text":"副部長好副部長我們看到最近這兩個多月來或者是說這三週來這個國際的情勢變化非常的大那我們看到戰場正在重疊戰場正在重疊的意思是說包含這個東歐的戰場跟這個西亞或者是中東的戰場它慢慢的有在結合的趨勢"},{"start":13801.286,"end":13812.15,"text":"那更不用說之前有北韓的這個士兵那不斷的在東歐的戰場出現所以我們看到的是已經是超越區戰爭的這個範疇他不斷的在擴大當中那當整個歐洲戰場跟中東戰場結合之後"},{"start":13818.092,"end":13839.805,"text":"那我看這裡就是一個非常大的一個警訊也就是說他們盟友之間的協調所謂的盟友不是只有我們的友方的協調包含這個美國跟海灣國家包含美國跟日本韓國的關係都正在有一些微妙的變化當中之所以這麼說是包含這一個美國的陸戰的遠征隊有2500多名"},{"start":13841.986,"end":13861.36,"text":"那就新聞報導他已經有開始在做重新的部署調派可能會調派到中東那另外一部分就是韓國的這些防空的系統也有抽調到中東的狀況那首先我要請教副部長在這樣子的狀況之下我們會不會擔心我們的優先次序"},{"start":13863.26,"end":13876.211,"text":"遭受到違憲遭受到調整會不會是被調整的一部分目前我們聽到美方會不會有這樣子的這個調整第一個部分就是先回答委員有關這個亞太的旗幟當然這個美國調動它的"},{"start":13879.934,"end":13901.243,"text":"陸戰隊的部分是因應整個戰況發展跟區域的一個考量所以我們對有關亞太地區的區域情勢我們是非常每天非常密切的在掌握就是亞太地區的情勢以及對岸是否有一些相對性的一個威脅的一個增加這是第一個第一個部分那第二部分我請這個站位市長"},{"start":13902.805,"end":13918.997,"text":"這個部分跟我們目前有關的是102枚的增購的MS-1I3型的防空飛彈那這個102枚目前美方仍然在協調裡面告訴我們會在今年開始如期交運"},{"start":13920.97,"end":13941.161,"text":"所以說在愛國者系統一樣今年一樣如期交約不會因為中東的戰事他這102枚是前面我們那1790億元386枚的第一波的愛山採購案裡面所後面剩餘的案款那在之前經過大院同意之後我們增購了102枚了解"},{"start":13944.147,"end":13966.787,"text":"我為什麼問這個問題很清楚嘛因為包含3月3號阿拉伯聯合大公國表示他攔截了169枚飛彈跟645架無人機那戈威特是攔截了178枚飛彈所以以這樣子的數量來講的話我國的目前的這樣子的防空系統假設遇到警示伊朗規模的話足以因應"},{"start":13969.073,"end":13987.247,"text":"包委員我們整個防空作戰計畫它是必須要經過非常詳密的計算的當然我們防空武器所保護的目標我們會依現有的能力去評估我們哪些目標會優先進行保護但是未來台灣之盾建立的目的就是"},{"start":13987.867,"end":14011.61,"text":"目前在敵人各式的威脅空中威脅的部分不斷提升的情況之下我們必須要在盡快的時間之內不論透過軍購或是偽製甚至商購的方式來獲得我們高中低層所需要的從反彈一直到防無人機各式的武器系統才能夠確保未來我們能夠有效來防範敵人的攻擊"},{"start":14013.084,"end":14031.101,"text":"這也是為什麼我們說相較於行政院的版本我們就是要 你說剛才你講的嘛要具備這樣子的防禦性的能力可是在行政院的版本之外其他的版本就是這一次的特別條例它沒有包含防空系統跟系統整合沒有嗎 有沒有包含 沒有你要說沒有包含防空系統其實"},{"start":14032.142,"end":14049.593,"text":"我們要強調的是在這次院版的項目裡面很重要的一項是西方ISR系統跟人工智慧輔助決策的系統因為這個部分攸關到我們未來要去鏈接各式美照以及國照的武器系統"},{"start":14050.313,"end":14075.542,"text":"那這個部分如果缺了這個核心能量的話我們不但沒有辦法把目前所有包含雷達以及其他各式情資來源進行整合之外我們也沒有辦法針對未來我們所目前已經既有的防空系統還有未來籌貨的這個武器系統早期的來進行系統整合的這個工作那這個勢必會影響到後面我們整個戰力的行程"},{"start":14076.072,"end":14105.632,"text":"所以我必須要剛才這個有提到我們是要把各種武器的系統整合才能夠做有效的經濟的配置也就是說高中低也好當他們用比較高昂的這種保彈我們有用相應的這個防空系統來去應對當他們用比較低應該說比較低端的這種自殺型的無人機我們也有相對應的更加的便宜或者是說有經濟效益的無人機來去反制所以這不是買多少彈的問題這是整合的問題這同時你剛才提到的AI"},{"start":14106.252,"end":14121.436,"text":"一樣這一個在美方也是全面性的使用來去用AI來去區分哪些是高價值的必須要用空中的力量把它移除的哪些是中低價值的不需要移除的以及哪些是民用設施的必須要避免的"},{"start":14121.616,"end":14141.252,"text":"所以現在大量的審核AI這些系統它是我們未來武器籌貨系統中的非常重要的一部分如果沒有了那會對我國的防空會造成絕對的影響其實我剛才聽到很多在內黨的委員們都有提到對我國防空系統他們的不管是期許跟希望它怎麼樣來去完備也就是說我們的目的是一樣的"},{"start":14141.832,"end":14171.121,"text":"那如果是目的是一樣的話為什麼他們會把這一個在他們的條例裡面沒有包括我想可能是因為時間的因素或許是他們覺得時間緊迫所以他們趕快提出來的一個版本不具完備性那我想這個部分就是這個禮拜我們這個禮拜還有一整個禮拜的時間就好好的跟這些黨立委來去說明為什麼他們不把這個放進去裡面那是第一個部分那如果可以理解之後那我們才可以往前推進那第二個部分就是我們要跟國民也要跟國民說明"},{"start":14171.741,"end":14190.168,"text":"跟國民說明這樣他們才會給在野黨來去跟他們有點壓力讓他們慢慢地走向對台灣最有利的這個做法因為剛才提到的你說這個AI的整合也好或者是讓我們知道說不同的情資全部整合之後我們才能夠快速地判斷快速地判斷不僅是人為的判斷而且還是能夠"},{"start":14191.368,"end":14205.879,"text":"在所有的時效性的判斷這些全部都整合在一起我們才有辦法做到哪怕是以色列這樣子的等級包含這一次中東的戰爭我們應該很清楚的看到以色列的防空的機制還是起到很大的作用數百枚的飛彈跟"},{"start":14208.021,"end":14230.698,"text":"多波次的飛彈跟多波次的無人機但是他們的無人他們的這個防空系統還是一樣的運作所以這就是一個很好的例子如果我們想要像他們一樣的話我們就必須付出代價而這個代價就是特別預算所以特別條例它是一個架構我們之後可以再做預算的細節哪些你覺得這是不必要的這一檔有權利來說這個不必要我們可以把它減少但是有條例之後才能夠有預算"},{"start":14231.539,"end":14252.69,"text":"如果條例都沒有具備的話那我們很難進入實質審查這個部分我們也要好好的跟在野黨來去說明希望能夠讓這個條例通過之後讓我們未來的預算再往前走那我還是要強調我們從以色列或整個中東的這一個戰爭我們可以看到很多的這個狀況除了以色列的成功之外我們必須要看一下包含防空系統之外"},{"start":14254.31,"end":14275.939,"text":"伊朗的武器的製造能力跟他持續的製造能力他把許多的工廠都地下化那包含導彈的這些儲存也都在地下化那我這邊想要請教包含副部長我國如果在面臨像是有具有接近空優的狀況之下有沒有持續製造的能力"},{"start":14277.165,"end":14297.862,"text":"至少在無人機的部分目前無人機的部分我們現在在提升國內的產能的部分目前自製的能力在健身型的部分是沒有問題第二個部分在有關供給型的部分也積極跟國內的廠商合作因為他需要一些火工作業的限制所以也積極在合作當中"},{"start":14298.883,"end":14318.393,"text":"所以我們現在自製無人機的能量區分三個部分一個部分是我們兼徵型跟國內的廠商來做第二個是跟軍備局的火工作業合作第三個部分是有關中科院他有相關能量從進風一型到進風四型持續在發展上我的意思是說生產的分散化跟未來有沒有機會地下化"},{"start":14320.656,"end":14339.806,"text":"現在這個地下化的部分我們後續可能要跟國內的廠商還有相關的單位去做一個檢討有關於這一點向委員報告我們現在第一動要做的是建立國內廠商的能量當然從俄烏戰爭也好還有美國國防部最近推動的作為也好產製無人機"},{"start":14341.127,"end":14365.009,"text":"他可以採取非常分散性的做法所以首先要有商購的能量出現先有企業進入我們才有辦法進入到下一個階段地下化等等的那最後一個問題時間有限我們的包含將軍到校級的軍官他的工作如果萬一遇到重大事故他有幾個人可以去做替補三級四級"},{"start":14368.496,"end":14387.35,"text":"目前我們是有5級代理人的制度有代理人的制度我們有暫時跟平時的5級代理人的制度平時都有奉核可不可以簡單簡述一下5級代理的意思是什麼比如說營級的話就是營長副營長還有參謀主任以及營服務部長向下代理"},{"start":14394.062,"end":14409.345,"text":"如果我國的防空系統比方說這個指揮官遇到重大事故那接下來他們都知道相關的指令那也有辦法繼續執行反擊的能力可以這麼說嗎"},{"start":14410.12,"end":14427.727,"text":"報告委員是,作息是說明我們在不管是5級代理人,就是指揮官的代理另外第二個是在指揮中心也有分散部署跟相互代理的機制不管是防空或者是地面作戰或是海域作戰的作戰指管都有相應的規劃跟計畫今天在座的諸位也都有相應的規劃"},{"start":14429.628,"end":14456.582,"text":"每一位都有因為我們都是公開行程那我看到許多我們的指揮官都在這邊那所以只是要確認一下所有的可能性的推演相關的職務代理必須要用非常認真的態度去執行那要確保說所有的指令或者是通訊的這些相關的密碼密令等等都必須要有人可以承接"},{"start":14457.383,"end":14458.585,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來請鍾嘉斌委員上台質詢"},{"start":14475.971,"end":14492.711,"text":"主席 在堂的委員先進 列席的政府局長長 官員 會長 公眾夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請我們中副部長以及副參謀總長執行官黃上將那請整平市的苗司長以及中科院的李院長在旁邊協助"},{"start":14494.122,"end":14510.204,"text":"好 請以上人員就備宣臺創委員好副部長好副總職好我們都算有小小的舊事啦尤其是我們屏東同鄉以你為榮好 現在呢我們看到了中東烽火起啊嘿 下一頁"},{"start":14511.445,"end":14518.95,"text":"那麼我去剛好上個月去出行的一個印度瑞辛納的一個論壇有114個國家超過700個代表參加我有幸參加討論台海安全的部分結果在我旁邊呢有一個上將是前印度的參謀長陸軍參謀長在我旁邊的是目前高市早苗總理大臣的補佐官算是行政院的類似副秘書長是空軍少將退下來的我呢是公財補給下士啦"},{"start":14541.085,"end":14558.637,"text":"但是呢這個不是在談這個軍事專業我們還看到了英國的前首相蘇納克說嚇阻台海衝突的重要性比這個荷末斯海峽更重要所以呢大家都在關注烏二以及美伊的這些部分那麼有一句話說有人說後勤決定勝敗甚至現在的戰爭打的是工業生產力請問副部長您同意嗎同意"},{"start":14565.161,"end":14593.014,"text":"我們看一下伊朗怎麼去處理這個我是念歷史的在戰國冊裡面有一個叫做下士對上士知道這個典故嗎伊朗就是這樣他拿兩萬塊美金的建政者136去對付讓你消耗你美國愛國者四百萬美金的飛彈那用飽和攻擊消耗掉你的高價武器用下士耗掉你的上士再讓他的上士對你的中士用他的中士對你的下士這樣的一個戰術思維大概這幾千年來都有這樣的副黨也同意吧"},{"start":14593.294,"end":14604.626,"text":"伊朗是不是這樣做是是這樣做好因此我們看到了因此這些下市也很重要我就是公財補給下市下市也很重要但是我們看到這兩天的新聞就突然月滿軍購有助軍工產業大爆發估計可以高達"},{"start":14609.31,"end":14611.993,"text":"創造出4000億的產值 事實上去年的產值高達2300億其中無人機屬於下市的佔了129億我是不知道怎麼算出來的啦但是我們 他告訴我們 我們不能只投資上市不能只投資潛艦啊 這個最新的戰機"},{"start":14625.826,"end":14639.179,"text":"而且呢也要投資像無人機那麼您認為台灣在投資無人機我們該怎麼做目前我們整機的製造少但是我們的零件會外銷全球副部長你怎麼看待目前台灣無人機產業工業的這個情況"},{"start":14641.583,"end":14667.018,"text":"跟委員報告整個目前我們整個無人機的產業跟規劃國安部有分三個步驟來做相關的一個推進第一個部分是我們希望能夠立即強化國軍的無人機的戰力這個部分我們就是採國內廠商以及國外成熟的無人機的商品部長我打斷你因為這個題目我關心很久了"},{"start":14667.358,"end":14686.008,"text":"到目前為止不管是海委會海巡署還是我們國防部整機的得標者呢大部分還是國外的供應商比國內的整機更有優勢你同意嗎好 那什麼原因我來跟你講往下看其實目前就算是無人機也有軍用軍規跟軍用商規的像MQ-9"},{"start":14687.629,"end":14703.963,"text":"B這是美國使神他才能做啊這個我們國家大概沒有辦法但是這些軍用商規的我們國家可以但是受限於我們的國防採購的規模較小所以目前如果要讓軍用商規的擴大一定要增加商用的市場不能只靠國軍採購同意嗎同意好 那我們接下來看"},{"start":14707.185,"end":14711.627,"text":"但是我們來看一下到底這樣的一個供應鏈過去無人機的產業我們借鏡民航機來看Airbus跟波音它的競爭關係波音美國那麼大從引擎導航機身它什麼都可以做但是歐盟不一樣他們要分工有的做機體有的做翅膀有的做引擎你同意嗎"},{"start":14726.053,"end":14746.524,"text":"所以這裡面就有一個供應鏈分工還有一個美國怎麼厲害他就算整家都得做他不會全做我們屏東的加工出口區就有廠商在專門接波音的鋁合金的零組件但是要通過什麼通過波音的認證那你大概知道這個四等性吧所以同樣的話告訴你說目前本土的無人機去年129億有100億的外銷是零組件到波蘭捷克跟美國"},{"start":14751.446,"end":14773.767,"text":"到美國的部分你要取得認證波蘭跟捷克它當然去紅就可以我們往下看所以我們看到美國現在有Green跟Blue的嘛是不是這樣目前我們台灣能夠賣到美國的零組件大概都有到Green的有的要去拿Blue它才有辦法進去但是我們看到了我們零組件型整機有沒有辦法有沒有可能跟美國競爭"},{"start":14775.855,"end":14788.61,"text":"系統開發對 必須要看廠商他取不取得這個綠色跟藍色等等假設他在美國那個是指零組件對也就是說我整機我居然是全部我都有辦法拿到綠色 藍色的我整機的開發系統啊還是要實測嘛"},{"start":14791.707,"end":14801.414,"text":"對 所以說如果我沒有足夠的實測我沒辦法跟美國跟烏克蘭競爭嘛因為他們是有實際的經驗誰要買你台灣沒有經過戰場驗證的 對不對所以說我們現在需要什麼呢需要兩個東西一個是驗證機構也就是說軍方可能沒有辦法來提供驗證但是國內應該讓經濟部像以前的車測中心他就為我們的我們台灣雖然不能做整輛的汽車外銷但是我們的汽車零組件外銷的很多就是因為我們有驗證中心這個是不是國防部的權責"},{"start":14821.808,"end":14836.381,"text":"這個在行政院有整體的規劃目前在117年在民雄那是誰負責哪個部會負責這個部分是行政院以及我們中科院共同來配合推動經濟部也要參與但是不是國防部的 國防部是什麼除了驗證之外要實測實測的場域在誰手上我們防護總值是不是這樣空軍是不是過去用掉了大部分的空域"},{"start":14848.707,"end":14870.206,"text":"有一部分是在國防部管制的這種...是的 我要說的是說台灣的戰場情境跟烏克蘭不同他們過來要大量的海洋海洋跟山林它在地表的特徵是完全不同的如果我們的無人機的實測不能取得各種戰場情境的場域去是非我們的整機是沒辦法跟人家競爭的 你同意嗎"},{"start":14870.686,"end":14898.66,"text":"同意 現在整個行政院已經有規劃幾個水上大型無人機測試的場域包含在屏東以及在南部的海域是的 所以這裡我要給您建議您可以看最近台航的總經理他發表了一篇文章我覺得蠻有道理的他說除了這些現場實測的場域之外軍方要開放之外還有實際搭載武器現在我們整機的無人艇或無人機要做到了雖然是商規要軍用它一定要有火力彈藥"},{"start":14899.82,"end":14926.727,"text":"這個部分在國內是管制品我不可能我隨便去買一個去路邊買一個榴彈我就掛在我的四軸無人機我去試飛看會炸的中炸不中不可能一定要軍方協助所以未來5G的搭載也是一個課題再往下看所以我們現在美軍他也積極的去學習烏克蘭跟伊朗的經驗烏克蘭派無人機專家去到美國的約旦基地去協防美國的無人機也偷偷的把伊朗的做逆向工程把它整個拷貝過去了"},{"start":14928.027,"end":14953.16,"text":"美國這樣的做法會不會說以那麼高科技的國家來學習這種低級的技術你會不會覺得他太委屈了還是覺得這是很務實的做法這是很務實的做法 現在我們國軍也在做很好 那我就是說了所以說我們看到我們看到鄭恩斯基他說無人機的經驗開始來協助對抗伊朗但是以色列怎麼做 烏克蘭怎麼做我們國防部的官方說我們要主動反制 被動防禦等還要持續的引進新興科技 怎麼引進"},{"start":14955.054,"end":14964.002,"text":"我們的外交處境這麼艱難你有辦法派我們的制服的軍方人員去嗎我舉例啦民間常常開玩笑說現在台灣有很多美語教師啊什麼是美語教師就是美方的軍事人員來我們這邊跟我們做軍事技術交流的嘛你覺得我們台灣可以派台語教師去烏克蘭嗎"},{"start":14977.205,"end":15000.544,"text":"簡單說說我們現在跟國外其實有相關的無人機合作技術的交流跟發展尤其在各無人機的訓練中也有相關的交流那這個部分可以單獨再跟委員沒有關係你單獨私下講我可以公開的講什麼其實烏克蘭台灣的科大教育很發達科大的系統有很多我們台灣的科系是具有這樣的一個基礎工程能力的"},{"start":15001.364,"end":15015.767,"text":"烏克蘭的大學他們目前也類似科大全力在支援烏克蘭軍方他們在這些無人機的相關的工程電子零件而且呢他們也很佩服台灣他們認為台灣的電子零件而工程上很先進所以有沒有可能我們從台灣的科大找這些電子工程機械相關領域的專家或教授甚至高階的研究生去跟烏克蘭的科大交流一下你覺得有沒有幫助"},{"start":15028.258,"end":15053.286,"text":"這個可能要牽涉到我們現在跟這個虎尾科大幾個學校有做我都還沒說出名字你就說出來了虎尾科大對虎尾科大是國內目前啊這個相關航空領域他很積極的對 覺溫裕校長我都跟他很熟所以呢你跟虎尾科大有什麼合作我們現在確實有跟他做一些協助性的一個合作跟交流也有一些協助研究請他們再做那他們能不能到烏克蘭去這可能我們就是不是"},{"start":15054.06,"end":15079.596,"text":"這個就需要行政院包括外交部跟教育部去協助其實我剛從印度回來台灣很多跟非邦交國我們是透過這種科學研究的教育交流的方式去能建立關係所以呢這個部分請副部長要跟部長報告一下幫我們爭取國防部爭取這個台語教師到烏克蘭好不好就是我們看最後的三個結論就是跟部會共商建立我國軍用商規的認證機制這可能中科院"},{"start":15080.276,"end":15088.882,"text":"跟我們的經濟部要協助我們的供應鏈的取得比照美國Green跟Blue的第二個這個是你們可以做到的無人機載具的這個不是封測測試啦實測的場域可以嗎可以 現在已經有了合理的提供武器測試的一個申請流程可以嗎"},{"start":15099.594,"end":15118.761,"text":"也有了最後請你們在行政院爭取請外交部跟教育部協助讓我們台灣具有烏克蘭也希望跟我們交流經驗的包括電子工程師包括機械工程師包括這些學士後的這些比較高階的研究人員可以用科技大學跟科技大學的方式去交流取得一些烏克蘭的經驗你支持嗎這部分我們努力努力好謝謝"},{"start":15127.577,"end":15131.08,"text":"謝謝 接下來請蔡易瑜委員上台質詢謝謝主席 那我們是不是有請副部長還有中科院的院長 軍備局的局長院長 軍備局長"},{"start":15155.902,"end":15179.836,"text":"蔡委員好副部長好我想要請教副部長現在在民雄的航太基地未來會變成無人機發展的重點中心我想要請教的是中科院目前整個基地的開發進度如何可不可以說明一下"},{"start":15182.711,"end":15209.162,"text":"跟委員報告整個民雄基地分東西兩邊東邊是軍用的部分也是我們中科院的部分那個我們會在今年完成整個人員的進駐未來國內所有無人機就是不管是軍用商規或是軍用軍規的檢測和實驗都會在東側這個部分來進行西側的部分是要開放給廠商進駐的我們已經完成了整個規劃設計也完成了招商說明那預計在這個月我們收到縣府的環評之後"},{"start":15211.363,"end":15225.228,"text":"環評報告之後我們會辦理招標的工作一切從招標之日開始兩年半之內可以完成所以東側的部分就是中科院這邊自己來開發嘛那麼預定年底都可以進駐"},{"start":15227.209,"end":15232.434,"text":"那接下來當然重點就是剛剛說的嘛很多無人機的一些測試那一些檢測的可能就會在這邊那這個檢測是包括這個商用的呢還是單純只是軍用的一個檢測軍用商用的檢測都會在這邊進行就一併都會在東側這裡進行對我們實驗室也會開放好那再進一步的請教"},{"start":15252.072,"end":15271.327,"text":"我們現在國內對於整個無人機的一個產業無人機現在甚至包括無人船那基本上都是非常的重要尤其是我們看到整個戰爭形態的改變接下來幾乎都是無人載具而且現在我看到無人機的技術現在幾乎都搭配AI了"},{"start":15272.108,"end":15295.794,"text":"就是說連人操作都不用那個人都是輔助而已啦無人機給他裝個AI,AI設定好他自己就去找目標甚至他還可以已經發展到的說反無人機系統也是透過AI自己去對抗無人機所以大概會整個配合整個AI的一個運作然後讓無人機會更加的成熟那未來"},{"start":15296.954,"end":15315.572,"text":"我們軍方現在要採購的無人機我們是會就是像我剛說的直接用最先進的無人機直接就讓軍方去採購還是我們是以訓練為導向先讓阿兵哥學會操作無人機這個是你們現在的一個方向是怎樣呢"},{"start":15319.335,"end":15325.857,"text":"剛剛委員報告我們區分了兩個部分第一個是訓練機的部分由我們的訓練部門會編列訓練預算來採購一些訓練機那至於我們軍備局剛剛委員所提出來的這個是我們全部都是我們軍備局來負責我們所有攻擊機的採購"},{"start":15338.422,"end":15367.224,"text":"那供應機的採購現在已經做了兩次的招商會每次都是兩三百家的廠商來非常的熱絡那我們已經做好的整個採購計畫帶特別預算核定之後我們就會上網公告招標那整個無電機的產業就會結合雅創結合我們剛剛我們總管院長所說明的民雄一個無電機的園區再加上我們的後續的一個六甲跟砂輪的部分我們整個無電機的產業"},{"start":15368.545,"end":15379.469,"text":"會朝這個方向應該會蓬勃的發展 以上說明產業的部分就是說採購無人機包括訓練機 包括可以用在戰場的那訓練機的部分你們是朝向說未來國軍是每個人都要接受訓練還是要專有的一個部隊來接受訓練"},{"start":15393.769,"end":15414.899,"text":"我們國軍的無人機有分為無人機的專業部隊還有一般的一個使用的部隊我們的坐機室還有我們的相關的訓練部門都已經做好了完整的規劃並且陸軍和海軍分別都有一個無人機的訓練中心我們採購的無人機的規格就是等同我們攻擊機的規格那這個無人機的訓練中心在哪裡"},{"start":15416.78,"end":15430.166,"text":"我先跟委員說一下說明就是說我們現在無人機的訓練包含到我們在入伍階段或者是我們在後備集中訓練這個召集的階段都有實施無人機的一個機組的訓練"},{"start":15431.767,"end":15459.936,"text":"在這個訓練最基本是要讓所有人了解以及能夠簡易的操作無人機那第二個部分就是現在陸海空軍都有成立無人機的訓練中心那這個無人機的訓練中心它有兩個目的第一個部分是能夠幫所有的戰鬥部隊來訓練無人機的操作手第二個是我們希望他們能夠發揮師資的功能授訓完之後能夠擴大這個成效回到各部門能夠教授無人機的這個技巧"},{"start":15460.862,"end":15488.496,"text":"好就是說無人機這類產業啦我想國軍除了說我們透過軍用商規讓國內的無人機這個產業可以帶動起來之外人才的訓練非常重要所以剛剛嘉賓委員講到虎科大虎科大現在就是扮演整個他大概站在是科技的研發那邊但是基礎的人才訓練我認為國軍還是得自己來所以我剛在問的就是說你們未來這個訓練中心"},{"start":15490.939,"end":15512.353,"text":"是要怎麼去強化然後去落實這樣它的整個訓練計畫至少讓國軍可以懂得無人機不會說一隻來然後牠們懵懵懂懂好像會又好像不會我覺得現在年輕人你大概讓牠摸個幾次牠就熟了所以應該是說盡量讓大家都可以接觸到無人機"},{"start":15513.193,"end":15529.564,"text":"那他有這樣的印象後這個記憶他就會留下來以後任何時候有需要的時候他都可以用無人機可以直接去操作無人機現在的訓練真的是按照剛剛委員的指導剛剛現在其實已經很早在去年就已經在進行當中都在進行好那就加油謝謝"},{"start":15541.445,"end":15567.547,"text":"好 已登記質詢委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有楊瓊英委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報委員書面及口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者請國防部兩週內以書面答覆委員有約定期限則從其鎖定本日會議到此結束散會謝謝大家"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}