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再為主席有請速發部林部長我們請速發部林部長"},{"start":12.785,"end":35.578,"text":"邱委員早安部長早部長全世界都在談台灣is the AI hub當然對機場還有產業來說一方面雖然感到驕傲但同時也感到焦慮為什麼會感到焦慮我們確實有世界最強的晶片產業當然回答還有台積電把台灣推向硬體核心的時候我們政府在法治環境還有算力還有能源基礎建設有沒有跟上如果政府"},{"start":36.178,"end":60.667,"text":"他沒有跟上的話那沒有跟上他的速度沒有跟上技術發展的時候呢台灣只有可能在這一波全球AI的發展競爭中出現我們有最強的晶片可是卻沒有相應的治理寬窄還有足夠的電力建設以及電力建設所以本席先從治理還有基礎的基礎建設的面向就叫部長部長把這件事應該是產業他發展的第一心玩不是他的不明確性來源"},{"start":61.167,"end":85.355,"text":"那目前全球AI治理已經進入高風險的時代了像歐盟的法案EU AI Act它在2024年正式生效它將AI依風險等級分類管制那美國也透過了行政命令來強制要求AI巨頭進行安全測驗那我們回頭來看台灣現在目前雖然AI基本法已經通過了三讀並且公告但最關鍵的AI治理架構要等到今年年底才出來沒有錯啦"},{"start":86.115,"end":91.021,"text":"那AI發展 風險架構我們的AI基本法"},{"start":92.17,"end":118.658,"text":"風險框架應該是在三月底四月初就會我們這邊就會抱怨了三月底四月初大概兩三個禮拜內我們就會兩三個禮拜嗎那不是要提到AI的發展是一週的單位來做計算嗎那像OpenAI的GPT還有Google的Gemini他們每年也在重寫他們的模型那如果我們治理框架你說要到三月底那馬上就上路了嗎馬上就可以業主業者了嗎"},{"start":119.758,"end":132.308,"text":"當然我們報院以後要看那個行政報院之後如果院合訂之後我們就會在AI基本法底下的規定的時間內去執行所以沒有法律的真空期嗎"},{"start":133.951,"end":147.311,"text":"這目前不會啊我們核定之後我們就會去做而且部理會還會去協助去協助各機關去訂立相關的管理規範管理規範同樣也是在三月底嗎還是要在還有一段時間嗎那是多長一段時間"},{"start":149.754,"end":167.794,"text":"跟委員說明一下我們現在的AI風險管理框架事實上是三層的架構在最上層就是AI基本法這個主管機關目前是國科會在AI基本法下面我們事務發布會訂定AI風險管理框架"},{"start":169.355,"end":184.886,"text":"AI風險分類框架那我們數法部訂了這個AI風險分類框架之後呢那個各個部會就會依照這個風險分類框架去訂定作用法譬如說以衛福部來講他們就要訂定那個就是AI技術在那個"},{"start":186.407,"end":213.244,"text":"醫療產業裡面它是怎麼樣應用怎樣規管怎樣去認證等等然後到時候發生了風險到底是由醫生負責醫院負責還是有軟體公司負責等等這個都是我們是有三層的架構那我們現在最上面那一層感謝那個立法院我們現在已經通過了AI基本法我們現在就趕快把這個風險風雷框架做好我剛想要問就是如果這段時間發生AI侵權或是技術濫用的話那蘇巴夫的權責還有他的責任機制在哪裡"},{"start":213.904,"end":229.082,"text":"對 那現在就是說以衛福部來講的話其實他們有些作用法已經也在立法了甚至於之前在AI基本法通過之前他們甚至有一些比較沒有爭議的部分他們都已經在做了那我們當然會盡快加速這個整個進程"},{"start":230.621,"end":255.534,"text":"儘快加速那有沒有一個明確的時間因為我同時也要問蘇防部有沒有參考歐盟的風險分級制度是 這個事情跟委員說明一下基本上現在民主國家對於這個AI風險的管理事實上有很不同的看法美國跟歐盟的看法非常不一樣事實上我們台灣在制定那個AI基本法的時候一開始就是參照歐盟的那個AIE Act"},{"start":256.474,"end":270.665,"text":"可是美國那邊有非常不同的看法就如同委員上面寫的就是歐盟它事實上有列出一個不可接受之風險它列出了八種樣態的AI系統包含潛意識監控包含社會"},{"start":272.547,"end":287.926,"text":"社會信用等等這個都不准發展可是美國人他們認為說regulation hinders innovation他們認為說太多的監管會妨礙AI的發展所以美國他們是採用的方法是就是用這種AI風險分類框架的這種方式來做"},{"start":288.479,"end":312.086,"text":"現在美國跟歐盟他們的管理風險他們的成績不一樣那未來台灣的軟體廠商要如何接軌國際他們要怎麼去達成這個合規的要求所以我們後來做的方法就是在那個美國方式跟歐盟方式模式裡面我們找到一個平衡點我們叫做台灣模式就是我剛剛講的這個三層的架構因為我們認為說這個AI的風險不應該是由速發部來做一個非常沒關係"},{"start":316.667,"end":316.687,"text":"是,謝謝"},{"start":332.78,"end":346.945,"text":"副主委好副主委我們常說半島敵是台灣的戲盾那我們也在確保國家的戰略優勢那最近有摩根史丹利他近期發布的報告震驚業界他指指台灣的晶片還有製造正面力電力供給不穩那產能也過度集中兩大的系統風險"},{"start":347.805,"end":375.479,"text":"那我們知道AI晶片它的製造還有運算它的耗電量是穿透製成的數倍所以它會消耗台灣近10%的電力那另外台灣的天然氣儲存大大概只有12到14天那如果能源出現問題對晶片還有科技業勢必造成終極那當國會編列10年3000億的精創台灣方案時本行沒有看到政府對於AI的算力基礎建設的設施然後還有能源配套有任何具體的保障那國會這邊的看法是"},{"start":379.725,"end":406.537,"text":"因為能源的部分其實不算是國科會在主管不過我們在發展這個AI是因為我們要發展AI嗎你們有沒有去做過這個供電的韌性評估呢就是針對AI的算力算區是 報告委員我們在對於這個算力建置的時候我們有去做這個電力的評估而且也有做跟這個台電有密切的合作去確保這個電力的供給是無庸置疑的"},{"start":408.153,"end":427.078,"text":"所以不好意思我再請蘇發布的部長部長您剛有提到我們台灣目前的GPU算力是多少我們現在分成幾個部分就是說政府方面的話那個如果是學術界需要用的算力是由國科會這邊負責的那現在目前的算力GPU是多少"},{"start":428.511,"end":448.975,"text":"是40嗎?蘇巴部這邊的就40片那報告中有提到要提升到140那你認為這樣的算力夠嗎?不夠,絕對不夠那算力需要電力沒有錯吧?是那現在的電力是足夠的嗎?國客會跟蘇巴部這邊的了解依照我們的了解,現在經濟部沒有跟我們說沒有說,那這樣子的算力有競爭力嗎?"},{"start":454.751,"end":483.067,"text":"OK 那事實上我跟委員說一下因為全世界現在大部分的算力都是民間去建立的像說美國的那個STARGATE的那個計畫那市長這邊美國的Microsoft Google Amazon Meta它的規模它單一AI它就是它的AI單一就是數萬沒錯 沒錯 沒錯那他們正朝百萬GPU發展我們看到現在只有40報告中說要提到140那算力需要電力那所以我這邊就有提到我們電力目前是足夠的嗎"},{"start":484.068,"end":510.195,"text":"沒有電力的話我們要怎麼發展AI 請部長和國科會說因為我們現在就是透過那個韓式的方式讓那個保險業的資金可以投入然後另外也那個透過韓式的方式跟那個財政部讓那個算力中心的建設列為重大那個基礎設施台灣在AI的定位是想要朝著什麼樣的方向前進我們是要做代工嗎 應該不只是代工吧"},{"start":510.595,"end":538.323,"text":"因為台灣我們剛才稍早就有提到吧大家都在討論我們台灣是AI好所以現在那個鴻海已經遞建了他們要建那個算力中心規模是一萬片的CPU我們現在算力不夠嘛對 一萬片就是民間他會那個現在鴻海單單一個案子那什麼時候可以達成這個要問那個鴻海我們希望說因為民間的速度會比政府快很多也有跟企業在討論嘛是是是那總是會有一個期程吧"},{"start":539.981,"end":562.137,"text":"對 那當然是說企業這個期程我們政府不能夠一定他一定是哪時候要蓋完但是他現在已經遞件了那我們現在就是希望他們盡快開工然後幫他解決所有土地電力等等的問題讓他們趕快開工 那我們這邊不是 沒關係 也是因為時間的關係那我們現在的競爭力應該只是陪跑的程度吧"},{"start":563.537,"end":592.53,"text":"一萬片GPU 一萬顆那個GPU也不算小了一萬顆GPU是我們的目標 我們現在才40對 因為我們的預算都被砍掉了我們本來去年我們要 國科會在進行討論提供本行AI算力基礎建設 尤其是能源韌性的評估報告 兩週內OK 好 謝謝那請委員多支持我們的預算那40片是前年的 去年我們要買100片那個預算被刪掉了 所以我們去年一片都沒有增加"},{"start":594.518,"end":606.914,"text":"謝謝因為我們現在才實施我剛才提到了現在很多企業他們都已經達到萬萬顆以上了嘛那我們希望我們這方面可以提升那本席也會支持感謝 感謝委員的支持能源的韌性報告好 謝謝好 非常感謝鳩羅委員"}]}},{"id":"167597","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167597","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60535d4473534d076fbb6c6d05596fd77c734d1c9dfa77de2098f5bc44308d809a7d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"10:51:42 - 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我們有請委員長請委員長"},{"start":8.67,"end":33.171,"text":"黃委員你好委員長你好委員長本期看了今天僑會的這個報告就是有關僑生來台留學專班、研習班還有去年總共招生的6,875人報告寫得非常好那不過其實僑生來台真的這些僑生三家四僑生來台灣真的這麼好嗎如果這麼好其實監察院在去年的報告好像寫得不是這樣子"},{"start":34.412,"end":48.066,"text":"那委員長昨天委員他們的報告都delay至少三年到五年的時間lag是 委員長這是本席要跟你來探討這件事情就是說昨天教育會發了新聞稿說關於這個國民黨昨天的這個記者會"},{"start":50.649,"end":64.71,"text":"對 我們全城有在聆聽對 只稱這個喬生變成血汗血供的這個事情那教育部跟喬委會還有我們的勞動部也有在做一些改善第一時間掌握做改善"},{"start":66.713,"end":84.214,"text":"我想其實當然還有包括 委員長也提到說好像有些媒體有一些 可能報導上有一些落差不過其實在整個過程裡面 其實它的問題是存在的還是在那三項 第一個就是語言的問題 語言溝通的問題其實有些喬生他在溝通上確實有困難"},{"start":84.835,"end":101.551,"text":"那第一個就是在專業錯誤的部分就是說他所報考的學校可能跟未來我們國家需要的人才是有落差的第三個比較嚴重的就是說這些學生的留台率過低啦那當時號稱要我們國發院發下號要留下20萬人"},{"start":103.313,"end":122.186,"text":"2030年2030年嘛那當現在來看我們看起來這幾年的統計學生的人數跟流台率委員長這邊我們統計是多少好我跟委員說明一下我們因為真正開始這個計畫是這四年一起那我們開始做這個計畫是從其實是2014年就開始實驗實驗計畫十年了嘛十年了對但是早期因為第一因素很久的"},{"start":128.891,"end":148.185,"text":"然後詐欺沒有任何配套措施所以當時也不鼓勵學生留下來基本上是這樣的所以留台率低我一點都不意外是因為當時根本就沒有配套措施要讓僑生留下來所以我們早期的僑生我現在因為有機會到全球各地去很多僑生都跟我說哇你們現在怎麼改變這麼多這麼好我希望我可以晚20年出生就是說當時他們想留他們都留不下來"},{"start":155.831,"end":174.26,"text":"但是最近這段時間以來十年前開始我們有這個評點制但評點制門檻仍然高後來我們就一直把它下修讓它有機會留下來那去年大院通過了一系列修法這個幫助我們很多就是說學生在畢業後他如"},{"start":174.96,"end":198.387,"text":"如何留下來的機率可以提高所以我相信這一套制度因為法治化了我們未來留台率一定會快速大幅提升我單單去年我頒了60個學校的這個獎學金這60個學校獎學金都是最好第一名的學生我就問他們就一個一個口頭問調查八成的學生都說他們要留在台灣"},{"start":199.687,"end":222.499,"text":"其實 其實委員長 本市這樣問就是說我們其實我們做這個目的 我們台灣人其實很聰明我們一件事 我們一起解決這個目的第一個 解決少子化學生不足的問題第二個 我們可以改善我們缺工的現況第三個 我們也可以讓我們在其他國家的僑生能夠透過教育訓練改變他的人生然後進而成為我們的一份子 對讓我們這個國家合作 對"},{"start":224.5,"end":236.127,"text":"我覺得這是對的事情 但是常常有時候都是好心做壞事 責升 尋覓負責這個狀況那我相信 委員長也有信要 我也相信有些人會想 譬如說我的這個人我相信 我相信 但是未來我們要怎麼改善這塊 我也希望我們教育費可以用多一點心包括我們講的這三個問題 我們未來要怎麼改觀我們也希望說 這一周後 還跟華為人補充一點 就是我們"},{"start":249.915,"end":256.18,"text":"我也是有感覺說,學生來台灣,他們早期沒辦法留下來另外一個原因,拓出第一年第二年後來就回去了後來我們會了解就是說,因為他們本來就聽不到了所以早期因為都沒給他們提供足夠華語的教育跟訓練然後也沒有設門檻,所以那個退場率就變得非常高那這幾年我開始把以前的資料全部調出來一個一個研究完以後發現說,這樣不行,所以我們就"},{"start":277.435,"end":281.959,"text":"兩年前開始我們就說第一國內的培育開始進來就要華語秘籍班很兇你要通過我們的這個基礎A1考試以後我就讓你實習喔不然你不能實習喔再來第二就是想要來台灣我在他們的國家我就開始設立各種華語班線上的實體的或是華語營讓他們有更多機會去學華語開始過去應該說東南亞啦"},{"start":307.259,"end":316.023,"text":"沒幾個是很多住院但是有些是不夠像菲律賓、印尼這裡就完全沒法律的住院所以我們這兩年開始來導臨所以就需要時間我們現在這個是長久的計畫另外也是要真的是符合我們現在國內需要的這些市場那我們希望這些善意不要變成我們把這些喬生當作是免洗餐具我想這個都是對我們國際市場都不好"},{"start":335.892,"end":348.998,"text":"我都跟學校講說歷史就是在告訴我們現在的人我們避免發生過去的錯誤來讓我們未來變得更好嘛好 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委員好那基本上我們從關於領股跟個股之間事實上我們也一直在縮短"},{"start":79.738,"end":90.208,"text":"他的差距那現在包括縮短的時間也現在變成五秒所以某種程度來講我們也希望慢慢的往委員講的國際的慣例裡面個股的這樣子的方式來去做思考"},{"start":95.796,"end":122.729,"text":"如果你贊成的話需要準備或是更動什麼樣的東西大概要多久的時間你能基本上來講的話因為要跟證券商他的系統也要改變相關的華麗要求對所以這個系統的改變的部分容我們我現在沒有現場的資料大概有多少的時間那這個部分來講最主要是系統的改變會佔比較大的原因請董事長同意嗎 贊不贊成"},{"start":126.469,"end":140.986,"text":"向委員報告一下其實我們國內的教育制度呢是從千股這個我們已經運行很久那我們當時去討論說要不要去增加零股的時候當然"},{"start":141.707,"end":162.771,"text":"因為有一些高價股或者是股力配股的領股在交易所以我們希望說能夠讓領股方便一點但是其實委員你注意到現在我們的交易依然是以千股作為它的本我的意思是說如果取消以千股為單位就是"},{"start":163.479,"end":174.604,"text":"跟美國接軌一樣是以各股為交易就沒有這個什麼零股跟整張的交易之間的所謂剛剛前面幾個委員提到的那些時間點融資什麼各方面的問題如果這樣子的改變你認為贊不贊成"},{"start":182.789,"end":207.211,"text":"其實委員你這樣子講把它變成一套這個是我是贊成但是其實我們有考慮到一個問題就是說我們其實我們台灣的這個股價的這個單價有的並不是那麼高那把它切成零股以後單位會變成很碎那另外一個就是在交易的實務上面如果你都是用成零股我們"},{"start":208.072,"end":227.257,"text":"之前還有很多是用電話還有一些大單有專人在處理的那個用鄰股去接的話他的工作量還有整個的處理的process會變得很繁瑣那所以我們鄰股一開始推出來的時候是完全用電子交易就是說你如果是在電子上面Key那交易"},{"start":227.617,"end":247.982,"text":"那這個部分我覺得系統就很快就可以去調整也可以調整成一致但是在這個轉換的過程當中我覺得實務上還是要去考慮怎麼去把它轉化讓這個整個的外界都能夠不管是那一種用電話的啦用電腦的或用手機的他們都可以一併來試用"},{"start":249.322,"end":266.811,"text":"剛剛林董事長鄭教授林董事長他是說他原則上是贊成但是這個系統的這個轉變的過程中要有很多的準備階段那現在是問這個前提啦彭主委我剛剛這樣講的你聽得懂我的意思嗎我當然理解往這個方向走你們贊不贊成其實"},{"start":268.032,"end":296.751,"text":"我剛才講這個方向這樣子我剛才其實兩位董事長提到一個很現實的問題我覺得方向是對的但就是說我們過去長期以來的交易習慣牽涉到非常多的投資人我想系統更改不是困難但是更改以後所產生的影響那怎麼樣避免這些的結果會不會產生一些後遺症剛才兩位董事長就說了這整個交易習慣這麼久以後很多人都以千股為單位突然改變以後比如剛剛講用電話下單網路下單他以為輸一個數字大概是代表什麼含義"},{"start":298.092,"end":320.072,"text":"比較一段的時間去做一個調整他們要去做一個推演我想這部分就是過去是長遠的交易習慣所累積出來以後要做這個調整需要有點比較仔細的評估所以你們連評估都還沒有評估他們現在在評估那你方向上你贊不贊成我跟你講對標國際的做法一定是未來的方向"},{"start":320.578,"end":334.428,"text":"好 那如果這樣的話你們可不可以讓我們了解說你們準備這些東西你們認為時程大概要多久啊好 那我我會請我們政經局跟兩個交易所仔細討論把比較確切的時程再跟委員報告對 因為如果改成"},{"start":335.683,"end":354.339,"text":"就是以股為單位那只是單位的改變就好像我舉個例子以前是一次算一噸的那我現在改成公斤計價一噸計價跟公斤計價也是千分之一嘛那你以前是一張因為以前就是交易習慣就是"},{"start":355.458,"end":370.227,"text":"一千股一張那個以前是這樣子的交易習慣那現在改成一股的交易以一股的交易的單位那個衡量的單位改變了其實我覺得那個很快應該就可以適應了"},{"start":371.488,"end":397.315,"text":"如果從那個技術上是但是我覺得整個社會習慣盤根錯節這部分這個就是我們要好好仔細因為系統一更改如果產生一些問題是不可回復的那這個問題是比較小心所以我想這部分我們會充分的尊重專業跟業界整個調適上的問題那這我們會跟他們仔細研究把未來比如說我們的研究的時程大家會怎麼研究再跟委員做詳細的說請兩位董事長先回座"},{"start":398.88,"end":411.153,"text":"要請教你最近日本的國會議員在討論日本被中國的支付寶入侵很嚴重所以日本又有很多的商家"},{"start":413.871,"end":428.082,"text":"當然不是全部 但是有很多商家只接受電子支付有一部分的商家不接受現金交易所以這個問題在日本比我們更嚴重但是既然看到日本開始討論這個問題我們台灣也得優於待之"},{"start":431.445,"end":444.134,"text":"你現在用支付寶台灣有在用啊但是你沒有讓他合法落地結果他在用那些的金額的跑都是在中國的金融機構裡面我們完全管制不到欸"},{"start":445.373,"end":469.205,"text":"然後他那個聯絡都要再加上微信等於是拖江野馬我現在聽說洋網軍啊搞一些什麼灰色交易啊都是用這樣的方式在搞這個 彭主委你覺得該如何處理呢我想這個如果我們去了解一下他背後的一些的內容我想其實我們對於這些支付的部分我會請銀行局去把那個詳細整個的"},{"start":471.266,"end":499.411,"text":"現在是不是先談支中國的這個所謂的支付寶目前台灣是不台灣沒有合法嘛沒有認可吧但是他確實就是在用啦跟委員報告那運用的場景是在跨境支付也就是說今天的會使用到支付寶就是入客來台沒有喔現在台灣的人也在用喔對就是台灣的人如果到大陸去他會被沒有台灣的人在台灣的夜市買東西他有時候也用這個啊"},{"start":501.038,"end":510.895,"text":"你有沒有瞭解 它是一個網站支付只是說這個東西因為沒有透過台灣的金融體系它是透過中國的銀行體系"},{"start":514.4,"end":523.707,"text":"目前我們就是一般路邊攤這種情況等於是類似特電的一個運用那這種情況都還是使用我們國內的電資"},{"start":542.359,"end":566.259,"text":"那問題是支付寶在台灣又沒有合法我想委員的意思是說假設我們國人在大陸他有支付寶的帳戶他在台灣也一樣可以像陸客一樣在支付嘛利用網路啊 說我偷過微信啊你這些東西你如果不去注意它它非法的部分它的比例不是那麼大跟日本比起來差很多 但是"},{"start":567.421,"end":582.233,"text":"你這個東西有在用的話就是有一個洞在那邊阿你要抓洗錢房子喔他這個根本就是你根本問不到他阿他就在中國的這個金融體系裡面然後他的通訊也是用中國的網路那你怎麼稽查你有沒有辦法"},{"start":583.894,"end":604.03,"text":"我想跟我們報告可不可以容許我們時間我們先了解一下日本他們在做的關切的內容我們再來比對我們台灣的狀況類似的情況我們來看看怎麼樣來先了解我覺得台灣有一樣東西我以前諮詢過我是很贊同的就是無論你怎麼樣接受電子支付商家不可以拒絕現金"},{"start":606.622,"end":617.119,"text":"這個日本因為有一些商家拒絕現金交易所以這個變成他們的支付就很多必須要依靠電子支付那電子支付是好是壞這有爭論"},{"start":619.284,"end":635.05,"text":"我是跟你在這邊再次的強調我的主張就算電子支付很同情的地方也不可以拒絕現金的支付這樣子才能確保我們新台幣的體系是可以穩健繼續強大下去啦好 謝謝你謝謝 謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167580","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167580","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60538f7bc5127dfdb49818cbbd4f69c426c0854b2f19bd25f7007a48185b157db2555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"10:11:08 - 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我們請時部長請時部長"},{"start":13.265,"end":35.174,"text":"部長好我看你們今天這個報告講了很多那有做什麼但我看完只有一個感覺你們現在是在講投入不是在講結果那我想今天招委特別安排這個案子就是希望我們要誠實面對偏鄉跟原鄉醫療的這個還有我們廠照的結構性問題那今天談偏鄉醫療我就用苗栗的現況來說"},{"start":36.775,"end":61.444,"text":"南莊、三灣、斯坦、泰安是四個鄉鎮有三個共同的問題就是偏遠、高齡、醫療可進性不足泰安鄉更是我們原住民鄉鎮也是你們原住民健康法應該最優先照顧的地方我先講幾個事實泰安鄉是僅僅醫療資源不足的地區醫療高度依賴這個IDS的計畫來支撐"},{"start":64.265,"end":86.434,"text":"目前多數居民就醫需要跨鄉鎮到頭份或苗栗市甚至跑到台中去你們的報告裡面說IDS一年服務幾十萬人次那我請教部長這幾十萬人次裡面有多少比例是夜間急診有多少是成功及時處理還是絕大部分都只是拿這個慢性病的這個門診"},{"start":89.378,"end":103.87,"text":"在IDS還有這個醫事室也有一些這個醫療站的補助或者是那個急救責任醫院的補助裡面他就包含了夜間跟假日的緊急醫療服務詳細的數字我們在提供給委員確實在"},{"start":106.992,"end":124.752,"text":"在泰安這個地方我們這個也是用公務預算去補助應該是大千醫院去承接的那個我不希望看到這個是很好的一個數字我們需要了解是說我們這個計畫到底有救了多少人這個才是重點"},{"start":126.954,"end":150.155,"text":"那另外我們醫療這個偏鄉醫療的主要問題就是距離嘛那再來看南江山灣跟師潭那他到頭份我們要意識大概車程大概至少要45分鐘到一個小時以上那對高齡者來說這不是距離是門檻那你們有沒有統計過平均就醫這個的交通時間偏鄉居民每年自費的交通成本是多少"},{"start":151.655,"end":179.618,"text":"有沒有去了解過這個好像我們就沒有這個方面的數字好那你說我們有培養醫師有補助那我再問一個最直接的就是這四個鄉鎮有多少是常駐專科醫師心臟內科有幾位急診醫師有幾位這個我們查一下之後再提供給委員對不對所以我覺得這個應該是我覺得數字應該是不好看那這代表你們政策只是培養人不是留下人"},{"start":180.56,"end":202.09,"text":"你培養了人之後他們可能過來有一些的誘因那他達到目的之後他就走了啊對不對所以我們就整個這個你們就一直要去循環這個甚至沒有人來那原住民這個民族的健康法是要縮短這個醫療的落差健康的落差那但現在我們看到的現實是"},{"start":203.371,"end":226.96,"text":"集中症要外送醫療靠巡迴體系是沒有建立的那這樣的醫療條件有縮短我覺得這只是一個口號而已嘛那原住民第二這個健康法的第二條明文規定中央主管機關應指定專責單位辦理那原住民的民族健康事務是遊衛福部這個專責單位到底是誰"},{"start":229.801,"end":251.594,"text":"有嗎有是誰跟委員說明一下就是說我們在推動這個這個原鄉的這個醫療確實在苗栗來講就這個每10萬人口的醫師數也好或者病常數也好當然是相對那真正負責任的是誰所以我們要把它再提高那原住民族的這個健康"},{"start":252.714,"end":274.987,"text":"這個餘命的落差其實有在縮短啦103年的時候大概落差10歲啦那現在113年的統計是落差大概7歲所以這個有在縮短中有在努力縮短中那至於這個專責單位啊我們現在在我們這個部內呢就是這個護理及健康照護師裡面有特別的這個阿珊迪理導課在負責"},{"start":277.038,"end":283.607,"text":"醫事是管IDS計畫嗎?IDS是健保的計畫護理及健康照護是長照3.0的國健醫事是管原住民健康促進計畫"},{"start":293.3,"end":312.82,"text":"那部長你本人雖然是原住民族健康政策會的召集人他只是一個諮詢單位不是執行單位嘛那現在我在看有沒有一個專責的人在負責這個有專責的他現在就是在這個叫做這個護理及健康照務室裡面"},{"start":314.021,"end":331.526,"text":"我們會希望讓這個師能夠扮演更多這個原住民族健康的這個政策的這個任務當然執行面的話需要跨師署的合作政策的部分我們有智庫在設置在這個國衛院裡面的原住民族健康的研究"},{"start":332.546,"end":343.904,"text":"那什麼時候 有沒有一個具體時間我們現在在進行這個主改 那麼這個組織法也已經在這個他不是已經有法律了嗎"},{"start":345.612,"end":369.552,"text":"不是有這條法案嗎有有有 那像我們在調整在組織法調整的過程當中去強化應該在這個配合這個立法院的這個我們組織法的修訂的時程你送了嗎已經送了 已經在那個司法法制這個聯席會議上已經審完出了委員會那這個後續就是等這個協商我希望這個盡快啦 好不好 盡快落實"},{"start":370.553,"end":389.663,"text":"那接下來部長我再請問你食藥署蔡淑珍副署長在關稅協定簽訂之後公開表示針對美牛絞肉內臟跟降低這個萊劑標準的重新評估那重啟評估是因為為了應驗台美關稅協定這個證明就是說這項作業的出發點是經貿補償而不是國人飲食習慣改變我說的沒錯吧我們在調整這個是這個嗎"},{"start":395.691,"end":414.041,"text":"應該是說在我們這一次重新再調整這個相關的規範呢主要是跟國際接軌啦那麼參考了這個國際的標準然後再重新計算我們過去的這個計算公式上不同的那有沒有因應是不是因為這個關稅的問題來調整"},{"start":418.377,"end":424.723,"text":"這個本來就在我們的這個期程裡頭在進行所以這個到底 國際標準都是最低門檻那依照食安法我們會不會有責任這個台灣人愛吃內餘這樣的習慣嘛別的國家是沒有不太吃這個所以我們是不是應該進行獨立評估 既然風險存在那這個"},{"start":440.759,"end":466.164,"text":"你現在說不是因為這個關稅的問題那你為什麼不選擇對國人最安全的現行標準那跟委員說明確實如您提到的這個內臟的部分我們有獨立的評估就是說按照這個CODES的這個殘留標準然後在國人的飲食習慣上去做推估來驗證它是安全所以你不會去照國際標準就對了你會甚至比國際標準更嚴格嗎"},{"start":469.1,"end":492.154,"text":"我們現在是按照國際標準來做驗證那看看國人的習慣上會不會超出這個標準那看起來是OK所以我們就可以對齊國際標準所以你認為是我們台灣國人的飲食習慣喜歡吃內臟所以內臟的部分它是符合國際標準的對那我們之前限定的標準為什麼要限這麼低勒"},{"start":493.317,"end":509.532,"text":"當時候的計算方式假設的不同假設條件不同那現在假設是什麼現在假設的條件調整之後就是說你不太可能這個比如說以這個腎跟肝來講你不會同時一天都到同樣的最高劑量"},{"start":510.666,"end":531.192,"text":"那個是會有互相取代性的你不會同時吃這麼多所以我覺得那個設置那個設定的條件不一樣那我認為這樣啦就是說既然是你不想你這樣講我認為為了國人的健康我希望你把嚴格這個標準從嚴來認定你不要用這個國際的最低標準來認定是的好不好一定是國人的健康優先"},{"start":531.952,"end":560.521,"text":"那再來我再問就是我們部立苗栗醫院跟這個我們台中榮總在去年11月4號這個簽署這個醫療NOU當時的這個赤木葵很清楚是要補足苗栗專科人力與急重症的這個量能嘛那目前請問一下目前中榮實際派駐部苗的醫師人數是多少實際上的人數我要再確認一下再跟委員這個回報部長你就沒有關心苗栗啊"},{"start":561.981,"end":571.389,"text":"一直在關心那是多少人力哪些專科每週急診那是固定派駐還是支援性輪診對不對是部長我們來講話我去看看"},{"start":580.416,"end":595.703,"text":"對啊那我跟你講啦目前據我所知他現在醫師好像還沒有開始派所以這部分啦不要說這個NOU簽了之後好像只是一個形式上那我們希望更盡快來落實這個部分"},{"start":596.363,"end":614.436,"text":"那當然我也希望部長來做媒介啦不單單只是這個中榮其他的各大醫療院所也可以請部長來協助為我們苗栗這個醫療能夠增加一些這個量能增加一些專科的醫師這樣好嗎好那另外最後一個問題最後一個問題就是我們"},{"start":616.978,"end":633.607,"text":"布苗嘛 我聽到我們院長前陣子有到苗栗去就是說我們這個集中跟大樓的栽培在2026年4月就要開始那6月要動工 這個有確定嗎這個已經核定了核定了 你確定要標的出去上次留標20次耶所以你們的金額到底有沒有有調整那萬一再標不出去你們怎麼辦再放個10年"},{"start":645.373,"end":647.819,"text":"沒有沒有 一定要讓他 要讓他成啦是不是有沒有這個我問三個問題啦齁 照片如果留標有沒有備案"},{"start":655.676,"end":680.291,"text":"因為我們已經重新調整這個標案的內容應該是可以那萬一預算不夠我們有提高預算的準備嗎對有嘛我們就是要讓它做成好那這個公期如果延誤我們目前有沒有什麼一個替代的醫療的這個量能的這個備案我們不希望它延誤我們希望讓它按照這個期程進行萬一勒"},{"start":683.306,"end":706.823,"text":"你們從2010年講到現在2010年就啟動這個案子一直到2021年重新再啟動一次所以已經你看16年了對不對 人生有幾個16年啊這16年有多少遺憾你知道嗎是是 我們這一次有絕對的決心要把這個事情完成好啦 部長您應該多關心一下苗栗啦 好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝謝謝邱委員謝謝邱政軍委員"}]}},{"id":"167579","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167579","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605355c27b9e86be4c6252e56fd78df8e650854b2f19bd25f7009ddf20834a5201b85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"10:10:42 - 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上一次黃委員有質詢這個議題我們已經有請銀行公會跟財經公司還有央行我們會共同來研商那因為在最近的一次先前已經有決定說因為我們台灣的跨行手續費相對來講各區域國家來講已經是非常低的那所以大概在兩三年前已經決定不會再往下調降但是這次委員有再提出相關質詢所以我們會再做相關的評估"},{"start":57.848,"end":78.182,"text":"那時間上面一個月可以再把評估報告出來 研議的結果出來嗎因為你這樣已經從今年的1月7號到現在已經超過兩個月了而且我們知道過去的時候就算是沒有這樣的時間性可是它都是用現在已經都變成自動化的一種的作業程序那人工的成本是大幅的降低那財經公司的結算作業應該是都可以完成對這一點"},{"start":80.303,"end":91.254,"text":"剛剛我們說我們請銀行公會他們以前過去針對這個東西已經做過研議而且我們相較其他也是不是一個也是比較低的水準我們請他研議我們請他去跟他確認一下是要多久報告可以出來再跟委員說明"},{"start":95.998,"end":99.381,"text":"OK 好 希望我們民眾黨會持續在追蹤這個議題那我們現在繼續往下看有一個金管會很重要的一個政策目標是屬於亞洲資產管理中心那我們看到說這也是戴清德政府的一個主要政見因為台灣"},{"start":114.677,"end":122.767,"text":"喊了30年了過去12人任的這個金融金管會主委都沒有做那您卻做了而且喊出了這個第一屆的目標是說要兩年有感也看到說現在已經有超過20家銀行跟超過兩兆元的資產規模已經進駐到這個高雄"},{"start":131.138,"end":133.98,"text":"那這邊呢就先讓你說到做到但是我們也看到有幾個問題第一個問題是說呢亞資中心在兩年內創造了兩兆元的資產規模但是想要問你說這兩兆元當中有多少是屬於海外的資金形式進來的"},{"start":148.31,"end":166.854,"text":"這裡稍微報告一下我們這個過去推動這一年半應該是5.7兆那個2兆是因為我們私人銀行業務現在成長到2兆2000億左右那剛剛提到那只是私人銀行業務那高雄專區只是我們16項計畫其中之一那這部分剛剛講說那5.7兆裡面呢因為我們有"},{"start":169.615,"end":187.481,"text":"這個所謂的AUM就是它資產管理規模各式各樣來源那我們到現在是沒有去細分說這是資金是從國內或國外當然我們可以看得出來這大部分都是以國人的財富為主那我們會去了解一下如果具體的數據再給委員好 那一個禮拜可以嗎"},{"start":188.309,"end":205.685,"text":"我們去盤查一下說有這個統計我們可以很快可以 盡快就出現這部分是非常重要因為你們部分的這個目標是在說要是要留財外 留財引資這部分就希望能夠落實第二部分你剛剛也講說在你們的幾項計畫當中其實高雄市是一個部分對 其中我們地方專區的一個專案"},{"start":206.946,"end":226.107,"text":"對 那有沒有考慮到說現在下一個落腳的縣市我們很多的我們很多的場合我們都說因為這是要地方政府來協力地方政府願意他提出他們的優惠措施來吸引所以他幾個前提一個地方政府要有意願要有能力再來就是我們的廠商要有意願"},{"start":227.068,"end":252.143,"text":"要過去我們政策再去配合這件事情所以我們也歡迎其實在這次那個卓院長在施政報告也講說我們希望今晚會來複製高雄經驗到全台去那我們也歡迎我們各地方政府如果能夠提出你們的誘因能夠具有招商的條件我們會來政策來配合好那這樣子目前為止是其他像新北跟台北沒有提出來這個需求是嗎目前沒有"},{"start":252.563,"end":258.867,"text":"好 這樣了解 當然就希望其他的縣市也能夠知道說目前政府有這樣的計畫那我們繼續往下看就是在於說因為現在包括的是台灣的一個狀況大家有這個跟新加坡跟香港他們其實都有這樣的一個亞洲資產的這樣的管理的這樣的一個作為那包括的還是我們看到說台海關係也都不穩定"},{"start":276.236,"end":287.608,"text":"剛剛說的香港跟新加坡的稅率就比我們低外匯管制也是比較寬鬆那台海的穩定度當然也是一個問題還現在包括了美伊衝突的爆發等等那這樣的情況實際上對於我們目前的亞洲資產中心的目標年度目標達成會不會受到一些影響"},{"start":293.073,"end":317.443,"text":"其實跟委員報告我們其實我們在做這個計畫我們有仔細盤點過像委員提到比如說稅的問題其實我們看到就全世界有很多的金融中心它稅其實非常的高它也不會就無損於它這個稅只是其中一個要件在地緣政治的問題當然很多人在說其實台灣從1949年開始就一直都有這個問題其實我們從事實告訴我們我們在推動這一年半我們就按照我們的計畫已經增加了"},{"start":319.904,"end":344.196,"text":"就是五兆其實某種程度來看其實我覺得我們是要吸引各種不同層次的這個資產進到台灣來做管理我想白資金有多重面向在乎地緣政治人他可能會到他自己認為的那很多地方他不考慮這個或是他沒那麼看重其實這樣就可以過來所以我覺得我們在做這些事情不能因為有這個而不推但是我們的吸引力在哪裡"},{"start":344.796,"end":362.389,"text":"而其實剛才講說比如說我跟委員報告一下就是我們單單就幾個數字比如說台灣的我們的銀行的這個存款對不對我們的國人的存款非常多而且每年的鈔額儲蓄這麼的高就是說我們的整個財富跟投資動能高資產客戶非常的多"},{"start":363.289,"end":378.619,"text":"所以你們就這個目標來講你覺得我們已經吸到我們現在在屬於台灣人的資產但是本來在國外現在進來的比例是多少所以我們就想說今天一個是有步驟性的如果連本國的資產都不願意留台灣談怎麼樣從外外但是現在這個兩年之內你們達到這個目標多少我們本來是預計就是說兩年的時間希望能夠增加4兆但是我們從現在統計已經來到了大概5.7兆左右"},{"start":390.046,"end":395.53,"text":"所以我覺得這件事情就是代表說其實台灣在過去它覺得假設台灣能夠提供這個服務的話我覺得我們這些資金就願意留在台灣給台灣的這個市場一個機會好 你現在目標是達到了你應該是這樣子吧當然只是初步"},{"start":406.479,"end":409.622,"text":"但是我們不會為目標而限制我們的做法所以我們也希望說其實我們給了一個非常非常難挑戰的目標就是希望六年之內能夠翻倍"},{"start":423.578,"end":438.304,"text":"好我們就繼續的期待著繼續我們來看一下這個意見當中是說專人的專戶他們也是在今年上路在亞洲資產中心客戶需要到高雄開會可是銀行喊不便那如何化解我想這個問題有點小複雜我請銀行局局長簡單跟委員說明"},{"start":441.585,"end":464.648,"text":"各位報告那個要到專區去開專戶這個部分我們有跟銀行會商過三次那銀行也覺得說必須要這樣做最主要的一個考量是為了要防度洗錢的一個可能性那第二個部分呢專區一定要由專人來這個提供相關的服務才能夠避免相關的這個銷售商的一個糾紛所以這個是我們跟銀行有達成共識"},{"start":466.245,"end":486.184,"text":"現在是因為主要還是一個試辦階段國人對於金融業的穩定跟安全有高度的期待我們希望在一個風險可控的範圍之內來穩步推進所以我們也不冒進所以剛剛講說我們寧可把它做穩做好以後再來擴大所以我們對這個東西一開始我們會有序的去管理"},{"start":487.244,"end":504.505,"text":"好 那我們希望就是這也可以看得出來整個的目標應該是還是以西周台灣國人的資金我們是希望就是說流財引資都要好 那希望另外在外資的引進上面也能夠加強這部分才是真正亞洲資產管理中心"},{"start":506.127,"end":510.029,"text":"好 謝謝 我們繼續往下看有一個議題是包括的是強制險的一個預告金管會已經在二月份已經預告了說準備把這個保額拉到大概三百萬元但是它目前的規劃是保費不漲這個保費不漲的話那是誰要來吸收要增加從兩百萬到三百萬這樣子的如果說的一個賠償額呢"},{"start":530.256,"end":552.267,"text":"是 跟委員報告因為強制險是個強制推的強制等於說你只要有車的人就必須要投保所以我們對於調費都非常的謹慎因為這增加民眾的生活負擔所以我們在過去呢要因為這個險的實施是所謂無盈無虧就等於說過去如果說他損率比較好有節餘的時候他要積存為一個特別準備"},{"start":553.348,"end":582.262,"text":"不能夠列入乘坐產險公司的這個損益裡面所以我們就看了其實上這個是過去幾年因為我們的道路的死亡改善其實有明顯的改善所以再來就是我們的準備金累積到一定程度以後我們覺得有這個能力在不漲保費的情況下調高但是未來我們持續假設能夠下降這個死亡率的話那其實上這個空間來這並不是從哪裡來就是從過去因為我們整個整個損利調好以後產生了一個"},{"start":582.782,"end":590.065,"text":"所以現在是預告期間嘛 那這個時候 預計什麼時候會升7月1號7月1號 那我們就去看他這部分可是你們 現在還包括一個問題因為實質上面 在整個法院判理賠的這個總額當中其實一般的A1事故的平均是411萬死亡受害者是371萬那失能者更是達到330萬你們現在達到300萬 其實是不太夠的那這邊呢 是不是"},{"start":609.674,"end":633.591,"text":"有一個考慮到說呢應該再去加強他的一個這個裁員的部分尤其是要加重到這個加重危險累犯的駕駛他們的保費這樣的金額或是把第三責任寫把它放進去裡面這部分有沒有意見納入到你們的考量當中我想上次行政院召開道安會報的時候已經指示說高風險高保費是未來制度調整的趨勢"},{"start":634.645,"end":637.887,"text":"所以這是要考慮解決的你以後是高風險的駕駛人未來的話你就必須要承擔高的費率這是一個研議的方向我想這應該是很明確好 一個最好最先後面有一個問題就是說那因為過去的這個調漲調整的是在13年前那這次也在預告在調整的時間是不是有考慮到要把這個CPI跟基本工資的漲幅也把它納進去彈性的調漲而不要再"},{"start":657.999,"end":686.735,"text":"礦日廢時的這樣子沒有反映到時事各位委員這是一個保險不是一個比如社會福利事項沒辦法按照這樣來做這是因為有保費民眾要負擔的這個就是保額提高就成本增加成本增加民眾就要增加保費我想這部分我們會盡量的就以不增加民眾的這個負擔我們積極面去改善風險降低死亡率讓這個東西把保費提高這才是這個險最重要的目的不是為了賠是希望最好不要賠"},{"start":687.588,"end":696.602,"text":"好 那就希望經國會把這樣的一個強制責任險的意義把它說清楚 讓民眾更能瞭解是 當然 還是讓他們目的好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167578","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167578","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053e9c6294ca454a709d268b4a161496bd9854b2f19bd25f7009ddf20834a5201b85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"10:10:49 - 10:22:01","影片長度":"00:11:12","會議時間":"2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、 邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、 邀請核能安全委員會、經濟部、台灣電力股份有限公司就「我國核電廠再運轉之規劃及推動現況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月18日及19日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-03-18","start_time":"2026-03-18T10:10:49+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-18T10:22:01+08:00","duration":672,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-2"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.2078437500000003,"end":2.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.5115937500000003,"end":5.8697187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.56159375,"end":7.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.658468750000001,"end":8.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.070968750000002,"end":14.610968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.661593750000002,"end":53.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":53.87909375,"end":53.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.89596875,"end":53.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.064718750000004,"end":54.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":54.09846875,"end":61.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":62.45159375,"end":103.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.21721875,"end":108.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.94221875000001,"end":111.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.00971875,"end":109.80284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.72659375,"end":125.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.72846875,"end":126.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.22596875000002,"end":132.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.25909375,"end":154.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.21346875,"end":182.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.22596875000002,"end":306.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.83534375,"end":355.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.15159375,"end":308.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.20221875000004,"end":308.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.48159375,"end":375.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.03596875000005,"end":373.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.17909375000005,"end":375.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.28034375000004,"end":383.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.19471875000005,"end":394.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.31534375,"end":420.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.29846875000004,"end":423.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.01534375,"end":430.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.37284375,"end":444.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.07534375,"end":472.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.80534375,"end":474.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.15096875,"end":483.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.08721875000003,"end":477.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.01034375,"end":492.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.78096875000006,"end":493.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.58659375,"end":495.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.00409375000004,"end":496.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":496.03784375000004,"end":496.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.47659375,"end":496.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":496.49346875000003,"end":496.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":497.03346875000005,"end":514.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.0603437500001,"end":514.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":515.0559687499999,"end":547.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.74159375,"end":529.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.3234687500001,"end":531.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.4897187500001,"end":603.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.4978437500001,"end":632.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.12221875,"end":604.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":624.7097187500001,"end":625.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.98284375,"end":639.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.9397187500001,"end":645.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.02721875,"end":668.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.0534687500001,"end":666.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.66034375,"end":671.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.5378437500001,"end":672.34784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.193,"end":8.675,"text":"好 谢谢主席首先先请经济部次长来 请蓝次长 请"},{"start":15.085,"end":41.901,"text":"市長早安我想這個中東的戰事大家都很關心全球都很關心但是對我們台灣的一個影響大家更擔心的是因為我們的能源有96%其實是仰賴這個進口那這個中東的戰事如果持續的延續那麼包含很多的這個費用可能就會往上增加甚至我們的這個所有的天然氣的安全的存量那這個天數是不是也有可能會急劇的縮短"},{"start":42.481,"end":61.702,"text":"那這個部分是不是也請這個經濟部次長來說明一下就是我們針對這樣子的一個國際形勢的一個狀況我們有沒有相對應的一個因應的措施我們從2月28號開始我們就來盤點我們3月份的需求短期裡面受到影響可是我們快我們就把這些"},{"start":62.623,"end":90.328,"text":"所謂的影響的貨氣都掉足了在這邊跟委員說明量足價穩是我們工作的目標而我們現階段工作的目標因為戰事的一個變遷是很大所以我們必須要有一個短中長期的這些因應包括我們對未來到6月之間相關的這個貨氣的排成我們都有掌握在這邊跟主委委員說明比如說3月4月當然我們現在都已經掉足了"},{"start":90.908,"end":111.79,"text":"5月份的部分可能包括現貨還有包括售到荷姆斯海峽原本排成的這個船次我們大概盤點出來大概有14艘那我們現在現行大概調到10艘左右那我們的安全存量不但沒有降低我們還是增加的好"},{"start":112.284,"end":132.439,"text":"那我想這個部分也在今天的這個質詢當中跟這個全國的這個大家來說明我想這個都是大家非常關心的一個重點好那接下來其實想請教這個河安會跟台電好請河安會台電上質詢台好"},{"start":133.585,"end":149.513,"text":"主委好我想我們一直在強調用電的部分我想福島的核災才剛屆滿15週年其實每一個能源的選擇其實都攸關我們這個世代跟下一個世代的安全跟責任我想根據2025年的統計其實在我們再生能源的發電佔比"},{"start":155.296,"end":182.717,"text":"已經有高達了12.7%那其實呢這也相對的來展現說代表這個再生能源其實已經逐步的變成所謂的我們的這個台灣電力非常重要的一個支柱了那其實在這個所有的大家在討論的一個重點其實安全我們一直不斷的在強調沒有安全其實就沒有發電啦安全第一這個大家毋庸置疑第二我們的核廢料核菌核酮"},{"start":183.757,"end":204.987,"text":"這個也是非常重要的重中之重再來第三高度的社會共識我想沒有這三個基本的原則跟準則其他真的都不用談了齁那但是呢其實剛剛就是蠻遺憾的一直聽到這個在野黨的委員不斷地在詢問所謂的騎乘啊好像這個很急啊三月底呢送交這個核安會來審查好像馬上就給要發執照然後馬上就要重啟馬上就要開始研議了齁那我想這是不對的"},{"start":211.65,"end":230.983,"text":"因為其實在透過我知道在我們的台電是2月初我們就已經跟這個西屋公司已經簽訂了一個合約了那展開這個自主的安全的一個檢查那依舊這個整個所有的設備的老舊的一個狀況或者是其他的包含一些驗證的一些項目這些都應該要非常謹慎非常"},{"start":231.363,"end":248.061,"text":"一步一步慢慢的來做慢慢而且要非常仔細安全的來做所以其實如果河山在講說要不要研議啊要不要再工作幾年啊如果在安全的標準上面打折扣那我想這些其實都是空談"},{"start":249.483,"end":272.364,"text":"這個對我來講但是我們當然也會幫大家來示意一下因為現在大家都在擔心說我們的電會不會不夠那麼核三其實已經做了這樣子的一個等於說我們有一些進程了就從2月3號跟西屋簽約然後再來就是接著下來我們進度的一個快慢還有跟我們的整個所有的核電的安全"},{"start":272.944,"end":291.227,"text":"用電安全的這個所有無虞的一個狀況之下那我想請教的是這個河山廠的跟這個西屋簽約這西屋公司在這一次整個所有的評估安全檢查的這個自主檢查的這個安全的評估西屋扮演的是什麼樣的一個角色"},{"start":291.607,"end":306.323,"text":"只是技术上的咨询吗还是说他会派遣所谓的技术的专家来到台湾来做所谓的核心设备包含所谓的这个反应炉的压力槽或者是实体碳上的一个设备的一个疲劳的分析习近平扮演的是什么样重要角色请教"},{"start":307.123,"end":326.676,"text":"報告委員簡單講就是你後面講的這一塊西屋它不是只做專業的諮詢的服務另外其實上它最重要的工作在做什麼做的就是反映如它自衛財產權所屬的這一塊包括反映如的本體包括反映如內部的組件包括一些安全周邊的安全系統的檢測"},{"start":327.877,"end":355.251,"text":"它只要是評估說它的老化的狀態進行它的疲勞分析來評估說這些設備也就簡單講就是所謂的實現老化它未來如果可以運轉還可以運轉幾年大概最重要是做這個第二個大概就是做老化的一個分析包括一些安全系統它目前來講在世界上"},{"start":356.533,"end":374.3,"text":"到底它的使用年限根據河山廠過去40年的運轉的一個狀態包括它整個站態包括功率運轉的狀態來評估這些設備我到底還能夠可以再運轉幾年大概希望最主要的工作是做這個"},{"start":374.96,"end":393.712,"text":"好 那像這樣子的一個整個他們在進行的工作的進程到時候是不是可以公開的提供給所有想要關心的人沒問題 因為所有的自主安全檢查報告最後要送核安慰審查那只要送核安慰審查其實相關的資訊包括他的報告呢全部都會上網公開"},{"start":394.312,"end":422.89,"text":"好那接下來其實剛剛其實在前面幾位在質詢當中其實我有聽到台電這邊有講到比方說這個進來我們這個比較頻繁的一些地殼的變動那包含就是我們的耐震度的部分那針對所謂的這個耐震係數現在的耐震係數的整個所有的標準是不是足以因應最新的地質調查研究報告當中的一些潛在的威脅要不要來做調整這個部分是這樣子如果"},{"start":424.373,"end":443.279,"text":"核三厂原始的耐震的设计是0.4GG是重力加速度那我们在2021年的时候2021年出来因为我们重新进行所谓的地质的危害的一个调查那目前来讲呢正在进行它所谓的"},{"start":445.168,"end":474.415,"text":"根據這個調查的結果基率式的調查結果進行所謂的危害度的這個分析目前相關的危害度分析呢同行審查已經做完了那我們目前來講針對同行審查的結果呢要進行相關的一些包括耐震的補強還有一些它的風險值的計算那相關風險的這個計算的這些到未來我們都會公開全部都會公開所謂的未來大概是多久這個時程大概是多久"},{"start":474.875,"end":495.337,"text":"因為基本上還要送核安會審查核安會審查完以後呢透過核安會的一個資訊透明的部分來公開我想核安會扮演了非常重要的一個角色然後再來就是很多人想要問的到底我們的核廢料現在選址的地方的進度到底如何現在有進度嗎核廢料選址處置"},{"start":497.339,"end":524.209,"text":"有關於核廢料的處置第一個包括我們室外的乾除跟室內乾除的作業台電公司都依照目前的排程在做比如說以核二廠為例的話它的再運轉計畫大概這個年底就可以獲得審照就可以獲得審照然後後面逐步的就把燃料池裡面的這些反應爐裡面的燃料棒把它移出來"},{"start":525.329,"end":547.277,"text":"至於說高階的這個部分我們現在成立了專案辦公室我剛剛也跟委員有說明我們不但是收集現在核能使用國家他們現在的法規法制的作業的情況之外那我們也會去做一個意見的收集公民社會意見的收集"},{"start":547.697,"end":567.546,"text":"我想這個是真的需要時間尤其是剛剛講到的第三點就是高度的社會共識最後我再佔用一點點時間其實就是兩天前在新竹科學園區所發生的這個意外我想其實這個簡單的一個問題我必須說像這一類的高風險的一個能源的一個設施尤其是在測試過程當中它是在測試過程"},{"start":568.766,"end":585.366,"text":"那測試過程相對來講其實是相對比較不穩定的那我們所知道的其實他是外包的人員那在外包的會不會我們其實有一套我們自己本身的一個標準因為剛剛其實林勇回答這個秀寶委員的問題我們就不再重複我們有這樣子的一個分析的標準"},{"start":585.686,"end":602.882,"text":"但問題是到了所謂的外包人員其實這個中間是不是會有所謂的斷層我們要不要建立一套是類似像我們剛剛講的比較嚴謹的一個牽管的一個機制不然這樣子的一個意外發生其實造成了一人死亡其實是讓我們大家聽到是相當遺憾的一件事情"},{"start":603.947,"end":630.927,"text":"謝謝委員 針對現場的職安的這一部分其實我們Follow職安法我們有一整套很嚴謹的一個標準那現場我們也有委外監照那我們這個台電方面也都會到現場做不定期的一個監督查核都不是只上座要求一定要落實那針對當天的這個測試的程序因為還沒有移交給台電還是陳覽商這邊統包商負責但是我們都有派專業的技術人員在現場監督"},{"start":632.008,"end":649.999,"text":"因為最後就是引起這件意外的一個結果目前是還在調查當中事故本身的原因還要等這個檢察官能夠放行我們到火場要一併的要去做一個檢測為什麼說這個問題其實很嚴重那這個問題也是大家都很關心的因為大家只會問"},{"start":651.119,"end":668.301,"text":"為什麼會爆炸然後再來誰要負責我想這個兩大的問題我們提供給台電我們也去思考一下怎麼樣因應就是在整個所有的測試的安全的過程我們是安全無虞保障人民的安全好不好好謝謝好謝謝主席好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167577","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167577","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60538ff7c7b826f99530f85a32efe0b6ef7a854b2f19bd25f70015f377d25edfc7d75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"10:12:50 - 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下位之餘請宗嘉賓委員"},{"start":25.339,"end":31.481,"text":"好 主席 在場的委員先進 列席的政府局長 市長 官員 會長 觀眾夥伴 媒體 記者 女士先生有請我們陳部長 農業部陳部長部長好 來 大家都在關心有個地方的風火啊你會不會擔心斷氣啊 天然氣會關心但是你會不會覺得我們天然氣會中斷"},{"start":54.699,"end":79.783,"text":"我相信經濟部這邊會有一個完整的方案我們相信行政團隊各部門會把自己的分工業務內顧好保證供應無虞那你會不會擔心現在我們看到了這個禾木寺海峽不只是原油 液化天然氣 石油氣 油製品化肥 剛剛有問到化肥化肥是我們農業生產有必需那化肥之後還有黃小玉 乾貨當然乾貨這個比較不會從禾木寺海峽過來"},{"start":83.004,"end":109.422,"text":"但是因為全國的航運牽一把動全身這邊擋住了這邊的船動不了了可能整個國際航運會大亂你會不會擔心我們的化肥跟防小育出現問題我跟你們報告在COVID-19的時候那些航運的阻斷比現在這個更嚴重那我們已經有一些應對的經驗所以我想我們會持續關心這個議題包括肥料的來源還有防小育的這些產地的這些價格"},{"start":110.382,"end":131.377,"text":"我想後續我想如果必要的時候我們會啟動相關的配置我想應該部長經歷過COVID-19我們會做完整的準備那之前我在上一頁我在院外的時候請卓葵注意到在能源自主的部分我們要進行多元開發還要注意到怎麼樣節能開發之後還要節能永續利用好往下看來那請問能源自主跟糧食自主哪一個比較重要"},{"start":131.943,"end":159.955,"text":"我覺得這兩個都一樣重要很好 標準答案都很重要真的很立場糧食自主這個你也要想辦法來促成對不對那糧食自主要怎麼達成呢我們往下看現在台灣進口美國最多的你看目前我們的國產市佔率黃小玉之外包括牛肉我們本土供應的都少於什麼九成多大部分有九成多是靠進口美國也都差不多照進口的一半對不對那剛之前我們在擔心關稅的時候這個部分都處理妥勝了嗎"},{"start":161.291,"end":185.723,"text":"我想這些議題我們都有在討論而且已經有一個比較完整的一個規劃但是我們是不是要想辦法減少對不是對美國而已對進口農產品這些糧食安全的立場上要減少對它的依賴提高我們的糧食自足這是我想我們長期的目標長期的目標那我們怎麼去做那我們來看一下糧食自足率人帶努力包括玉米你看國產跟需求自己率只達到2.6%"},{"start":187.904,"end":211.832,"text":"你覺得提高自主率我們有成長的空間嗎我們去產國產玉米能夠滿足我們國內的需求嗎我想我們國內沒辦法滿足黃小玉不能滿足到百分之百但是我們的目標是大概百分之五那我先請教一下這個我們要提高本國的玉米的生產請問目前我們的玉米是人吃的多還是動物吃的多"},{"start":212.779,"end":240.325,"text":"我們現在的玉米最主要是飼料用對所以其實糧食安全我們進口這些黃小玉大部分是做飼料那如果減少對進口飼料的依賴其實某個程度也是提高我們的糧食自主力 是不是這樣是你們後面不用那麼多人在那裡讓我會有點緊張啦我沒叫他們進來 沒關係啦你們部長對我的答詢應應之欲如啦好 再往下看那請問一下 部長本土農產品是要給人吃的還是給動物吃的"},{"start":241.069,"end":257.119,"text":"我想我們的農產品基本上大概都是給人吃的我們本土的是要給人吃的嘛所以進口的黃條育是主要是給人菜給東西你剛剛已經打了嘛是那但是如果動物我們養的這個序型沒有東西吃我們人就沒有東西吃嘛對不對因為我們是吃這些家禽家畜嘛"},{"start":258.32,"end":286.253,"text":"所以進口的黃小玉如果我們的畜牧業能夠減少對進口黃小玉的依賴是不是有助於我們糧食安全的提升是好很好那我們來看一下所以我要提醒一點這個題目跟你探討過很多次我們進口很多食材之後加工後有一些剩餘這些加工後的剩餘其實如果進入了畜牧業在一個防疫跟食安的前提之下進入我們這樣的一個永續循環你支不支持"},{"start":287.363,"end":306.588,"text":"我絕對支持絕對支持好那希望你們能夠往這個方面落實因為現在在討論到一些我們這個續期養殖的時候農產加工的剩餘物有各種的類型哪些適合在符合防疫跟食安的情況之下可以進入到這個食物鏈來讓我們本土的農業可以減少對進口飼料的依賴正你強調嘛對"},{"start":312.31,"end":320.742,"text":"所以你要知道我們農業的剩餘大概有三個優先順序第一優先做什麼做飼料第二優先呢做肥料第三優先呢"},{"start":321.67,"end":346.87,"text":"做燃料所以但是我們看到現在的農業剩餘呢常常去直接做燃料這很可惜如果可以做飼料的可以生產動植物蛋白質供我們補充如果是可以做肥料的可以植物性蛋白質補充我們是不是這樣子所以農業部請遵照這個順序好往下看來那我們現在發現我們林保署齁剛剛林保署這時候可以上來了啦齁如果他在的話我們使用國產材是為了減少對進口的木材的依賴嗎"},{"start":348.526,"end":376.438,"text":"我覺得還有其他的目的像什麼我覺得整個自然碳匯是一個非常重要的沒有錯我們買人家的柴木柴在那邊長的樹那邊有碳匯木柴製品到我們這邊來我們有碳排對不對所以我們國產柴其實是為了我們國內的零項的更新永續好那請問一下目前國產柴署長你們好像在推國產柴人家說國產柴進口價格高啊台灣的木柴加工業者會用國產柴嗎"},{"start":378.726,"end":406.432,"text":"貴鬆鬆啊 高價的低價的都要進口的啊已經有改善了對 因為這幾年國際的運價其實也在調高所以國產才變得比萬倍有競爭力 對大概是哪些財種 大部分是柳杉柳杉大概的應用上是做什麼東西包含家具 比如像您剛剛講的客桌椅是的 好 來 部長接下來又讓林保署長說這個怎麼問到他 你有沒有看過這隻羊"},{"start":408.19,"end":420.426,"text":"這隻羊很有名,這是綿羊部長你看過這個新聞嗎一個澳洲綿羊巴拉克離家住著五年身上長了35.4公斤的羊毛是什麼意思如果說今天羊毛沒有消費市場"},{"start":422.214,"end":442.696,"text":"農民就不會幫什麼幫羊剃毛對不對所以有商業的市場我們國產的財我們的零項才會有自然的什麼能夠去替化嘛是不是所以呢如果要讓我們本國的森林國土保安的立場我們本國的樹木我們要保護"},{"start":443.317,"end":461.571,"text":"但是也要有自然的掩替之外我們如果國產材去化後有商業的用途自然的抒發、種植就是成為循環你支持嗎?支持是供需的一個平衡才能夠引導所以今天零保署它叫做零保署它不是像以前我們學校的什麼木材有砍樹的有撤其外、有淨其外我們目的是整個"},{"start":467.856,"end":482.173,"text":"國產國有林的一個國土保持在這個情況之下林 森林的林項要自然的傾城代謝代謝的過程要透過抒罰罰的東西要商業市場才能夠促進這整個循環你支持嗎支持好 那現在問題來了現在國產財現在要做客桌椅"},{"start":487.342,"end":496.461,"text":"這是一個 只有這個用途啦大概基本上我們市面上買的木家具耀文國產做的不多嘛 因為你說柳木嘛一般你們家裡有用過柳木的家具嗎"},{"start":497.591,"end":522.47,"text":"連IKEA的都不是啊 都是用進口的啊所以怎麼辦所以呢 其實在市場的自然機制下他只要缺乏競爭力是不是可以我在屏東就做的公益媒合跟無立法委員 怎麼樣我們說 我們未來啊學校對一年前的入學新生送他一套可以用九年的課桌椅他每升一級就搬著課桌椅到新的教室國中畢業還可以帶回家部長你覺得這個有沒有可能"},{"start":523.493,"end":546.806,"text":"我也覺得這個非常有創業的做法很好 但是這你能做嗎我很願意跟教育部來一起討論沒有錯以前你們跟教育部合作什麼班班吃食班生生有鮮乳來 再給你一個新的論文往下一頁就是生生使用國產的客桌椅好不好你要不要跟教育部來調整一下我一定會跟他講我禮拜五總之今天就跟他講好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167576","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167576","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605385ba87eabbbfa182b086282839459da0854b2f19bd25f700470cdfe8d0499ff35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"09:58:18 - 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謝謝謝謝我們主席 翁昭瑋我這邊先請教我們訪問部長 好嗎"},{"start":15.847,"end":33.879,"text":"謝謝鄭部長部長今天本期這邊早安幾個大概三項議題跟您做一個請教跟討論那麼第一個部分是關於司法公信力的問題那我們從一個個案看到這邊可能我想要了解一下我們整體的一個狀況"},{"start":36.121,"end":57.599,"text":"我這邊的個案是有一位私信的民眾在1008年判刑確定刑期是三年十個月但是判決確定之後五年間沒有執行到了113年才收到執行通知這個當事人在這五年當中也多次主動向法院跟地檢署來詢問執行的進度但是檢查機關沒有動作"},{"start":62.443,"end":65.425,"text":"監察院在今年一月也做了一些調查整個調查其實提到的不是一個人的疏忽而已啦而是從分案執行到歸檔每一個環節都有一些問題包括書記官沒有分案"},{"start":78.471,"end":88.213,"text":"執行單位沒有啟動程序那麼股長跟檢察官在歸檔的時候也沒有注意到結果整個流程有點整體失靈所以這邊我想跟部長請教那麼這一件事已經確定了一個刑事判決那怎麼會五年沒有執行那當然監察院有一些調查那麼第二個部分是"},{"start":99.796,"end":108.721,"text":"其實也有反映到監察院調查的一些結果也就是說地檢署的案量極為龐大那如果這只是被發現的一件有沒有其他還沒有被發現的可能案件呢第三個部分是我們有沒有可能透過這樣一個個案來檢討一下我們內控的機制那未來是不是在內控上在分案的一個複合還有執行的一個追蹤還有歸檔前是不是要再次來確認"},{"start":128.191,"end":147.893,"text":"那避免當中有被遺漏的那您對這件事情的看法是如何?謝謝委員這個的確施行授信人的確這部分的執行就是有延返到了但是還沒有預約那個行刑權的一個時效所以現在我已經也發現"},{"start":149.895,"end":177.177,"text":"也薄掉了那這部分也入監執行在113113年7月10日也入監執行那剛才提到這個有一個疏失的一個問題那這部分那個台中地檢他有評定他有資料科的書記官跟執行科的書記官這邊當然也反映在他的考期上是考期是一等那當然委員關心說是不是有其他的的情形那我們也是很注意"},{"start":178.098,"end":195.352,"text":"那是不是你們趕快再做一個檢視那如果說有這樣子因為看起來不是一個個案啦有一些整個系統上我們試一下有沒有所以其實那個台中地檢它有強化複數被告案件分擔及歸檔的流程類為教育訓練的一個課程"},{"start":197.293,"end":214.904,"text":"那我想這也是一直要跟人家提醒這是一個管考督考的一個問題我們也是不希望有這樣的的此類的看起來是蠻特殊的就正好在每一個環節都有一些疏漏那另外我們也會本部也會強化跟司法院的系統來做一個交換這是屬於"},{"start":216.525,"end":242.687,"text":"是系統性的一個交換的一個機制所以它有這樣一個系統的互相勾結嘛 對 如果有確定的過來的話我們不會去漏掉因為有時候還是不管怎麼樣還是要人工所以本席這邊也提醒就是說這樣一個個案然後我們也發現這個系統可能有一些在需要做一個整理跟檢討那再來是相互的單位之間是不是要互相的一個勾結"},{"start":244.048,"end":246.811,"text":"那所以但是很重要這一點其實也反映一個問題啦還是本席長期在關心的那個基層的檢查體系啦長期都高壓過勞所以我們從個案裡面其實會看到很多個向度的一個問題跟狀況"},{"start":261.147,"end":277.349,"text":"所以雖然這件案在台中的遞減但是我們看一下他的案量那整個108年度處理的案件三萬八千多件然後關乎的案件有七千五百四十四件那總共四萬六千三百九十七件"},{"start":277.85,"end":296.87,"text":"那我們用一個平均來算每天181件那麼人力跟時效的一個限制因為這件事情還關係到一些時效那結果在復合或覺醒上就沒有及時的做一個處理那事實上執行課的這個負擔也是很沉重那麼承辦的書記官也都每一年都達到2000多件"},{"start":298.612,"end":325.606,"text":"那每一個執行的檢察官也差不多到每一年要八千到一萬件那平均我們講幾多啦台中、新北、桃園那這幾年來近六年平均每天都在兩百到三百件當中那基層人員其實也有反應那本席也長期關注那人力跟案件量其實蠻失衡的所以其實這個部分不僅是每一個環節那整個失衡的狀況可能也必須要再做一個整體的討論跟檢討"},{"start":328.447,"end":344.558,"text":"那麼這本席已經關心很久了所以這整個具體的人力的補充或減壓的方案或者是書記官在跟地檢署的這個基層的負擔你們現在有沒有一個更積極或者是可能看到預期的一個方案做一個應對呢"},{"start":346.479,"end":362.432,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個問題我想我們事件會很感動會很感動那的確增補能力我們一直在努力那是因為受限於那個整個一個天花板的一個限制事實上我們我們還是在這個這個我們還是在努力那另外這個的確"},{"start":364.393,"end":382.139,"text":"這個案管系統就是案件管理的一個系統這邊我們優化的確我們希望能夠更有效率更有效率來簡化行政的一個流程那事實上不要案獨勞刑檢察官也是一樣所以本席關心的就是這些基層人員的問題我想全國大概人力都很缺但是"},{"start":382.879,"end":412.439,"text":"因為在人力短缺的情況我們就是從暗管系統的優化、簡化流程還有推動AI的輔助系統那其實AI的輔助系統可以幫我們節省很多事情我知道AI可以節省很多事不過我們要學AI跟理解AI或者是讓AI能夠真的去做到對我們比較有效度的一個功能其實也需要一點時間那另外工作設備也要做剔除那另外最近我們幫書記官爭取就是很謝謝任總跟那個主計總處也支持"},{"start":415.981,"end":440.337,"text":"你們現在的因應作為是不是也可以給本席一個書面的報告那個紀錄會從4700提高到607年這也非常謝謝行政院的大力的支持那看起來你們這邊可能有一些進展那相關的進展報告是不是可以給本席我們非常注意其實我們都有召開一些定期的一些研商會議就是能夠合理化書記官的工作的一個負擔"},{"start":443.299,"end":457.404,"text":"對 本席這邊就是為基層 書記官還有相關的這個基層做一個請命那第二個部分本席在這邊也談 跟您這邊探討一下就是有生"},{"start":458.844,"end":464.868,"text":"新障礙的受刑人在進入監獄的時候的一個狀況有沒有妥善的被處遇的一個狀況有一些個案就是在收容人入監之前因為交通事故就受傷了入監後可能沒有及時在醫護上的一個"},{"start":479.398,"end":505.993,"text":"處理結果就惡化了那另外呢還有一些不同的障礙像聽力障礙結果變成執行官也沒有及時發現然後在資訊上可能沒有及時的一個通報這些都是比較一些即時性可能發現的突發風險那所以這就導致了在收容前後的一個醫療跟身心狀況通報機制的一個不足所以在醫療評估還有停止執行的一個判斷上是不是有後續的一個矯正的一個照顧"},{"start":507.014,"end":521.029,"text":"那本席認為在這整個制度面有三點本席認為是段點的提供給你們參考就是說第一個段點是說什麼時候停止執行是否要停止執行這個標準是不是可以更明確化那第二個段點是醫療專業"},{"start":522.17,"end":530.237,"text":"有沒有進入到這樣一個步驟的決策核心那第三個部分是矯正機關的這個醫療處遇從收到了健康檢查到後續的醫療處置還有個別處遇計畫之間的一個聯動那這個整個實質的健康問題會被忽視所以這整個既然我們收容了那很多東西我們就必須要負責"},{"start":544.77,"end":555.989,"text":"那這整體的一個狀況因為有一些突發那有一些通報的即時性還有處遇就是在處遇上或面對的一個即時狀況那這個部分是不是蔣聖淑要不要簡單的回應一下好 謝謝"},{"start":560.815,"end":572.52,"text":"委員好跟委員報告關於國家信訪權跟醫療人權之間的話的層層皆知的話我們是很看重的因為那醫療本席這邊提到的是我們會針對第一線人員還有醫療的這個專業跟這個矯正的機關剛才本席提到的那三點那你們目前有沒有發現這樣子的問題那有如果有對應錯事你就簡單給本席一個回應那如果還沒有當然你們打算"},{"start":586.046,"end":610.311,"text":"怎麼做這樣各位委員報告這個是我們一向都很重視的問題每個個案的話他的輕重環節我們都去跟他判斷的從他從地檢署報到開始一直到我們新收一直到入境執行當中我們都會依個案的情形來跟他做判斷想請教一下那怎麼樣停止執行的這個標準是怎樣他主要是有兩個點譬如說他沒有辦法自己生活他沒有辦法自己生活那一定沒有辦法自己執行那怎麼去判定他有沒有辦法自己生活"},{"start":610.831,"end":633.24,"text":"我們是他先提供他的也病例的一個資料我們先看然後再來的話就實際上他目前的醫療狀況醫生簡單講這個是應該會後要私下再探討一下就是說假設這個人他可能沒有人可以去幫他處理病例的問題那他已經也失去了某一些生活的狀況那你如何就是第一線人員如何去決定他是不是停止去執行"},{"start":634.1,"end":652.348,"text":"我講的是那種個案的一個可能性我們還有十天的猶豫期就是說新收進來之後我們會放在併設我們十天的猶豫期來看到他真正的一個生活的治理狀況是怎麼樣如果在十天之內看出他真的沒有辦法自己勝負的話我們就會拒絕收先所以本席這邊提到的是說一個即時性在這裡面就產生一些問題"},{"start":653.388,"end":671.017,"text":"是不是你可以針對本席剛才講的三個斷點就是第一線人員的一個是否停止執行那第二個部分的一個醫療專業人員是不是可以進入核心去做這樣一個決策的建議那第三個部分是那矯正機關那如何在本席剛才所講的那個檢查跟醫療的處置還有處遇之間的這個狀況給本席一個回應就是書面的更詳細一點針對這三點好不好好 那我們就要書面給那個委員更詳細的資料好不好"},{"start":682.543,"end":698.209,"text":"好 謝謝那最後一點本席這邊今天這個部分是針對我想新北的這個戈井案是大家都很關注的那所以我想請教一下我們針對犯罪被害人的權益保障法第27條制度設計的這個問題"},{"start":702.39,"end":721.187,"text":"那麼其實在這一條的第一項就明確的規定被害人及其家屬得就受刑人假釋審查來陳述意見但是第三項排除了少年行刑事件的適用那麼所以就說加害人只要未成年那麼被害人跟他家屬在假釋過程當中沒有辦法來表達意見"},{"start":725.011,"end":751.91,"text":"那這一次的新北戈井案當中呢那家屬很沉痛的這樣一個狀況就是加害人未成年結果呢他們的陳述就被排除在外那他們沒有辦法知道加害人什麼時候會出獄所以也不知道他被矯正的情況那更遑論這個家庭他們所擔心的有可能發生的任何的一些安全上的疑慮"},{"start":753.591,"end":779.998,"text":"更遑論他們能夠做一些準備那這個資訊落差對被害人而言其實在他的整個生活安全跟心理的安定上有很大的衝擊那所以你們是不是認為法務部是不是認為在現行27條第三項來排除少年刑事案件是不是合理那有沒有一些檢討跟修正的可能那第二個部分是在不違反少年保護原則的前提下"},{"start":781.178,"end":798.188,"text":"本席認為應該建立一套有限的知情與陳述的機制讓被害人至少能夠掌握假釋的重要資訊然後適度的表達意見第三個部分是針對被害人在整個少年刑事程序當中長期處於資訊不對等的問題"},{"start":803.291,"end":830.524,"text":"法務部是不是從制度面有一些補強的措施比如說要求相關機關對被害人的意見要具體的回應然後來提升他程序參與的一個實質的意義那這幾點是不是我們針對這一個議題或者這一個條文那法務部我們在這樣一個個案發生而且各界非常關注的情況下那要不要針對這個法條有一些思考跟"},{"start":831.864,"end":849.947,"text":"修正呢跟委員報告剛才委員關心那個環保法二十七條排除少年是第三項嘛那事實上這是一二年修法的時候是司法院的建議啦他也尊重他的因為少年事件處理法是司法院主管的一個法規"},{"start":850.788,"end":877.618,"text":"他在我們的犯保法這部分他已經說少年的這部分的案件案件這邊也排除我們第一項的一個適用這是四環的建立那這一次那個少女事件處理法這部分也要做一個通盤的一個檢討那這邊我們也會來檢視說這一條是不是要做一個修改我們再來檢視那另外那個的確像那個少年的一個"},{"start":879.098,"end":906.742,"text":"一個被害假釋前其實會做被害人意見的陳述的調查譬如說我們那個假釋的實施的一個辦法我們都會問都會去參考去審查的資料是有包括被害人的一個陳述跟被害人遺屬的陳述他的意見我們會很尊重他的意見所以這部分請委員放心這部分我們目前都要做都是這樣子"},{"start":907.022,"end":919.655,"text":"但是被害人被告之後在資訊的掌握度上目前他們一律就這樣子他們有辦法去確認在假釋的這個資訊內容上這部分我們什麼時候的話我們是不是請林署長來做一個補充這個假釋的一個審查在資訊不對等的這一部分"},{"start":926.516,"end":946.881,"text":"跟委員報告只要他進來執行我們問到被害人被害人的話他願意來參加我們的假釋的一個意見的提供我們都會尊重但是有些被害人不願意是意見的提供可是他對於假釋的整個狀況就是加害人假釋的狀況他們有機會了解跟做一些因應嗎有有有在實務上的話這個"},{"start":949.122,"end":960.535,"text":"這個比例並不高因為被害人都不太願意再進入這個區域但是家屬這個部分可能有一些心理的擔憂我們都知道實際的一個狀況"},{"start":963.558,"end":979.425,"text":"那這個擔憂跟是不是我們當然期待這個加害者能夠在這個過程當中可能有一些更正面的被社會來接受但是被害人你很難想像過去可能家屬被害了那他現在對於資訊沒有辦法掌握那他心裡的這個陰影我想都是會存在所以應該這個不僅資訊不對等他們沒有辦法去做一些他們所謂的安全的防護我想這個是一個蠻大的問題"},{"start":990.25,"end":1005.1,"text":"跟委員報告做一個補充事實上我們飯堡法我們各個飯堡的分會都是會去做一個協助會做一個協助那像那個戈景安的這部分我們也都是有一直在持續有專人去做一個輔導謝謝這個部長這邊因為這是社會關注"},{"start":1008.522,"end":1023.852,"text":"的一個案件但是我想整體大家都會有我想這個也不是這個一個個案而已所以本席這邊談的這個部分是不是也請你們做一個參考那不是只有這個個案未來我想我們都是同案式的一個處理我想這個被害人我們都"},{"start":1027.574,"end":1056.58,"text":"覺得他們無辜受害我們真的是覺得非常的要給他對所以在一些實質的這個執行上 實質的幫助這部分我們都有在做而且我們做的我們在像像1219他等等我們都是待第一時間就趕過去像這一種新北市這樣我們非常的痛心我想被害人他受到這麼的一個創傷就算我們是給他很莫的一個所以在通案的處理上是不是法務部這邊可以更積極的來做一個處理如果委員有什麼問題什麼時候我們做一個書面給委員幫我們做的那些的一個機制讓委員更加了解支持"},{"start":1056.88,"end":1057.283,"text":"好的,好,謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167589","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167589","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60537cf4fa0e244b9c8e52e56fd78df8e650854b2f19bd25f7001143f66db424e4555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"10:34:53 - 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等一下賴慧媛有人諮詢完之後我諮詢完之後休息五分鐘讓大家上廁所"},{"start":58.409,"end":73.022,"text":"我想虛擬資產已經是成為全球金融化的不可忽視的一環其實我們的監理基本架構也正在成型但是面對這一項新興且高度依賴技術的產業"},{"start":76.565,"end":102.618,"text":"本席認為金管會目前的一個草案其實還有很多地方需要釐清還有很多盲點不過就是說等了喊了一年也等了一年那虛擬資產專華是不是還在炎帝就從去年的3月25號一直到現在甚至就是說我們副組委莊副組委在上一次在12月25號"},{"start":104.139,"end":127.074,"text":"也跟大家宣布這個是一個國際性的一個論壇他公開的表示說虛擬資產的那個服務法 預估最快最快在明年就是等於是今年的上半年會執行可是這樣看起來就是說這個依告草案一年過去了那驗版的草案現在也還沒有經過立法院的那個一讀"},{"start":128.235,"end":151.668,"text":"那諸位你看我讓你有機會講一講到底就是說什麼時候會送到行政院什麼時候會送到立法院那你是不是試著就是說把這一個時程跟大家做一個報告好 謝謝委員我想說我們在前年的時候就答應我們要立專法我們當初就立定的是明年的就是去年的六月底以前送進行政院"},{"start":152.429,"end":167.629,"text":"對 那我們那個剛剛委員提到3月呢是因為我們內部的這些草案要公告給外界收集意見那我們做完呢 只是行政單位做完草案我們確實在6月27號已經送進了行政院並沒有任何的延誤那接下來呢 政委就開始進行"},{"start":168.57,"end":186.967,"text":"多次的開會那最近已經開會已經討論完畢剛剛那個我們副主委說最快是預估說假設是在比如說當時在下個就是前一個會期如果通過的話能夠在這個會期就送進行政院"},{"start":188.368,"end":210.449,"text":"送進立法院的話那當然這個會期最快如果我們通過的話就有可能我們的虛擬資產服務法在今年就會通過然後接下來在我們的執法通過以後就可以實施我想這整個過程應該都按照這樣一個順序來做我想行政院那邊已經審查完畢按照程序應該預期行政院已經審查完畢了"},{"start":212.05,"end":229.667,"text":"對 什麼時候會送出來那這樣我沒辦法代行政院回答不過按照程序是審查完畢以後會經過行政院院會通過以後就會送進立法院好 主委我再提醒你在野黨他的兩套虛擬資產法制上基本上他已經超車了金管會你認為這樣是合理的嗎"},{"start":231.348,"end":256.95,"text":"我想市場上比如說我們在大院各個委員之間都有各自的理想的條文我想這都尊重但是未來還是要落地可行真的符合我們台灣真正的不管是市場的現在的現況以及我們監理上面的這個能量還在就是未來的發展我想我們可以再透過在立法院的討論的時候能夠深入的討論各種版本"},{"start":257.671,"end":273.747,"text":"那我們就再充分的討論那就是在3月16號台哥大已經跟萬事達宣布了他們要合作那甚至把那個加密幣導入了日常的一個支付這個已經是從投資的一個工具走向日常生活裡頭"},{"start":274.508,"end":285.417,"text":"那主委你怎麼看呢就是這些虛擬資產專業法跟信用卡卡上在推動日常的一個支付上面他有足夠的法規來規範嗎我們有足夠的法規來規範他們嗎其實這個在我們一些把過去把穩定幣"},{"start":293.024,"end":306.279,"text":"或是一些虛擬資產搭配在信用卡上做支付這個部分其實已經在國際上已經很普遍我想這個如果在法規上基本上它還是一個信用卡支付它是一個信用卡支付所以說主委你很樂觀其成"},{"start":309.102,"end":329.922,"text":"那如果說我們在這個虛擬法規上頭的話我們台灣不是發展最快的啦那就是說已經就是說外地的廠商在本地已經是落地了那我們也有我們自己的法規可以管他們的話我們是不是應該就是說開大門走大路我們就去歡迎他們咧"},{"start":330.843,"end":355.123,"text":"其實委員剛才提到所謂落地我想應該這是法規認知上面是有一點點差異的還是有差異比如說他們今天去綁一個信用卡比如說我們市場上聽到的U卡那其實上某種程度他拿的就是一家VISA或是MESSA卡這部分他在支付店家他也是收他當地的幣別只是他結算背後可能他付的時候可是起碼他就是受我們的法規受我們的法規管理啦這是好事啊"},{"start":355.863,"end":372.767,"text":"對 就是說其實應該講我們現在所落地剛剛提到假設外國的這些的虛擬資產服務業者在台灣對我們一般民眾做無差別的這樣一個業務的話他必須經過我們的特許我想這個全世界都是一樣的好 經管會的特許啦"},{"start":373.107,"end":401.685,"text":"那我們接著是不是主委我們再來講這個虛擬資產它所依賴的這個區塊鏈它本身不是金管會監管的一個範圍內那你怎麼樣來就是說監督呢因為區塊鏈就沒有納入你的監管範圍那會形成你監管的一個落差那你有沒有更好的方式還是說尋求有技術的合作廠商的時候必要的時候是不是跟外國廠商一起合作呢"},{"start":402.545,"end":431.044,"text":"對 我想這部分有沒有排斥當然我們在監理機關我們扮演的角色跟一般業者是不太一樣剛才講 我已經說區塊鏈本來就是個去中心化也衍生出一個技術它本質上就不是但是我們真的看到現在的落地的部分基本上還是要靠中心化取得信任比如說剛才我已經說我們怎麼樣去納管這個區塊鏈因為區塊鏈如果要跟一般民眾生活做連結它必須要跟幾個"},{"start":433.886,"end":454.838,"text":"幾個這個機構幾個中心點產生關聯性比如說我們的銀行或是我們所謂的交易所這些都是可以政府公權力可以所到達的地方透過這個方式來管理我們區塊鏈上面的金融交易行為所以就是說其實基本上就是說你也是支持這樣子的一個"},{"start":456.249,"end":484.936,"text":"方式嗎因為這是一個假設是一個技術的發展跟全球的趨勢我們擋不住但是我們必須要在我們自己的監理的架構下做好準備當然是擋不住啊我們就是因為擋不住所以我們才必須要就是說你看停了慢了一年如果就是說其實你基本上你並不是你是一個比較創新的寫者如果就是說不是去年就是這當然有很多原因啦這個這個原因慢了這個我們也也就"},{"start":485.756,"end":509.589,"text":"不再往後看了我們往前看的話如果就是說可以提前的話其實我相信今天我們討論的議題又不是這樣的一個議題當然一個新的制度的出現必須要考量社會各界的共識像比如進到立法院還有各界的意見還要整合我想這也是真的那對於這種新的事物坦白講"},{"start":510.549,"end":535.687,"text":"充滿了不確定性但是我們要做好準備但是也不冒進當然是不冒進可是業務已經趕上來了那你的執法法規呢執法法規是不是已經到位我們其實現在全面在推動我們的草案大部分的絕大部分我們已經有草案接下來的話我們還在做一個整合因為這次總共有預計會有九個執法要訂定其實蠻龐大的工程九個執法"},{"start":539.936,"end":566.378,"text":"總共這個當我們虛擬資產服務法通過以後裡面有授權要訂定我們現在已經有大概九個執法要來訂定其中八個是針對虛擬資產服務業者另外一個是針對穩定幣是那倒是那個九個執法裡頭主委可以不可以就是說你可以很肯定的講就是涵蓋了現有的一個業務嗎這九個執法可以那個就是去那個承擔現在的這些業務嗎"},{"start":568.28,"end":591.199,"text":"我們看到的不管是交易保管到知戶借貸我覺得可以說我們未來的這個法律架構會超過現在登記制的這些業者的範圍那如果往後再延伸RWA還是穩定幣呢看業務未來發展趨勢來做彈性的調整其實我們的法規裡面也留有這些相關的彈性空間"},{"start":592.102,"end":617.245,"text":"所以就是說基本上你認為沒有問題當然我們現階段如果有問題我們會處理我們一定把它處理到我們認為沒有問題才會上路所以我想那個眼見最新的一個調查他說高達76%的這個我們的虛擬的資產的用戶他顯著就是把他的資產還是放在中心化的交易所這也是為什麼監管的重要性"},{"start":617.685,"end":636.805,"text":"是啊是啊所以我們也看得出來啊所以就是說受監管變成是就是這些投資者最大的一個期待啊所以在這裡也是要鼓勵啦也是跟那個金管會加油我想就是說很多投資者是期待就是受監管是一個合法的一個監管"},{"start":637.886,"end":650.858,"text":"對 就是說因為政府透過監管取得社會信任是一個產業發展非常重要的基礎這是我們政府保護人民權益一個非常重要的工作啦好 謝謝 謝謝主委 謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"167588","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167588","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60539b0f26083c87904ef85a32efe0b6ef7a854b2f19bd25f7001c0234b0a221b0dd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"10:32:52 - 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從現在開始嗎還是申請開始 應該從二月開始所以大概七八月 對然後我們希望更快越快越好這個就是讓國際放心 是那如果你這個我們要重返這個三大豬變成非一區的時候相關的檢疫還會放鬆嗎我想不會 還會調整不會目前的檢疫政策還是維持我們的檢疫政策我想喔"},{"start":91.005,"end":107.618,"text":"很重要的一個就是我們到了年底我們所有的廚餘就禁止到豬的系統裡面然後相關的禽類下甲料我們會做成循環再利用的飼料這個部分那相對它的風險就會降低這個問題就是想"},{"start":108.819,"end":125.877,"text":"繼續請教您這個上會期EcoFit的部分我實際跑去日本跟他們的農業水產省相關的官員討論他們怎麼樣把廚餘變成飼料有相關的技術你也說如果相關技術可以的話"},{"start":126.517,"end":152.636,"text":"也希望取得授權我們導入這個Ecofeed目前的進度怎麼樣我想我上個禮拜親是去現場那個工廠去參觀了那整個Ecofeed的工廠分為兩個部分一個部分是直接變成飼料化另外一個是比較有油油水的廚餘它是經過能源化它是在一起的部分然後他當場也說我們台灣已經有兩三位業者跟他洽詢了"},{"start":153.777,"end":180.379,"text":"那本來我想問他們是哪兩三家啦他因為是商業機密他不願意透露這個人表示說我們台灣的業者其實已經跟他有一些接觸然後同時我們在行政院就是也經過討論未來這樣子一個Ecofeed循環再利用飼料廠的一個興建投資的時候政府會做適當的補助跟協助把日本那一套我們可以學習把它引用到台灣來"},{"start":181.54,"end":210.086,"text":"相關的技術我們全取得授權那政委也要投入資源對我們會投入我們會來協助要協助廠商因為所有的廚餘啊最後就是變成這個也可以變成燃料也可以變成這個飼料所以完全不會進入養豬的系統嘛然後搭配家戶的這個廚餘處理機我也曾經提案說是不是他們幾乎每一家都有廚餘處理機所以把那個水跟油啊全部大部分都縮小"},{"start":211.646,"end":233.791,"text":"所以他們就很大的程度很大的比例可以變成這個什麼飼料而且成本也降低啊對不對所以這部分我希望說這個速度能夠快一點把日本那套經驗把它學習我想我的目標是第一個能夠在台灣生產那個大概七八月看看可不可以有新的"},{"start":234.491,"end":257.764,"text":"一些飼料供應所以我想我們會針對現在目前的全順就是苗栗的共同政治中心做轉型那有一部分現在在申請這個原來申請共同政治中心的九個案子我們再跟他洽談有沒有意願轉成如果有必要我可以邀請這個部長 相關同仁一起去日本再去看一下"},{"start":258.624,"end":282.839,"text":"因為我跟農曆署長只是一些這個聽他們專家寫者他們的意見或者一些分析沒有去市場看我很樂意再邀請委員去裡面現場看我可以排類似的考察好 下一個問題就是石斑魚產業石斑魚目前的價格怎麼樣那個署長石斑魚我是不是可以請那個好 署長"},{"start":284.605,"end":306.155,"text":"各位委員報告我們18年現在一年產量大概17000到18000噸那主要市場還是仰賴這個活魚的輸出到香港跟大陸所以你市場過度集中在中國跟香港有華人的包括印尼、馬來西亞、新加坡這個都是我們潛在市場"},{"start":306.909,"end":333.735,"text":"跟委員報告這絕對是所以我們現在從去年開始就在開發這種多元市場像美加現在的華人超市裡面其實對我們石斑魚的切片的產品他們也有高度的興趣所以我們目前政策上就是希望我們石斑魚未來也可以做這種計畫性的生產然後養比較大規格的那取肉率比較高這是你現在在處理的方式嘛是那"},{"start":334.315,"end":352.443,"text":"以現在來看你處理的方式並沒有達標嘛比如說我們石斑魚石斑活魚出口的量減少了將近10%價格跌的將近16%跟委員報告是但是在今年在1、2月今年初1、2月其實它已經有回穩回來了啦"},{"start":353.424,"end":363.764,"text":"但是過度集中在這個大陸跟香港其實是要調整的所以就是要求漁業署要趕快把這個市場分散化是是是你要拿出具體的這個做法然後你要"},{"start":365.205,"end":391.037,"text":"建立一個指標一個目標值所以每次問你們都還是一樣集中在香港跟中國這個部分你們也想怎麼做呢我跟委員報告就是我在今年跟去年基本上我在日本市長的時候我們已經啟動了一個類似計劃性生產因為在日本裡面有很多餐廳其實我們是進到餐廳的系統那餐廳的系統它需要一定規格的也不能太大"},{"start":391.697,"end":409.584,"text":"所以我們現在跟業者在做這樣的一個看看有沒有媒合變成一個類似計劃性生產然後去供應日本市場的這個餐廳系統類似這樣的方式才有機會去拉出去好 了解接著請教一下酪農酪農產業如果阿爾簽訂之後對酪農產業一定會造成衝擊嘛那怎麼樣去協助酪農產業能夠扶植能夠振興那個農業部有沒有相關的政策我想第一個部分"},{"start":421.408,"end":441.737,"text":"先跟委員說明喔就是台牛去年零關稅最後結果去年整個牛奶的進口只增加了600多噸而已表示說我們過去的愛用國產鮮乳還是喜歡用國產鮮乳所以我們在總量管制牛級管理的前提之下我們會加強國產乳的行銷可是相對的價格沒有優勢啊"},{"start":442.997,"end":464.83,"text":"對,但是價值是有優勢的,就是它的品質有優勢沒錯,但是如果景氣不好,大家就啊,一個乳品相對找一個替代性的或者是它的成本價格比較低的,這個替代效果就會產生我跟委員報告齁,就是現在很多就是手搖飲店齁,就是這些東西我們有大量的牛奶都用鮮奶的,以前都是用冰磚奶"},{"start":466.171,"end":475.539,"text":"所以這個部分我們跟很多協會一起合作在推國產乳進到不同的市場你應該響應 政府應該代表響應就是說要鼓勵國人多飲用國產鮮乳對 所以我現在準備在高鐵跟台鐵的車站裡面買一些看板變成台灣鮮乳唯一選擇"},{"start":487.728,"end":487.948,"text":"好,謝謝趙偉的示範,謝謝部長"}]}},{"id":"167587","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167587","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60531bfaddb94d8bb7b26c6d05596fd77c73854b2f19bd25f70054de318ebac86ee55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"10:29:10 - 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委員長辛苦齁你這麼多時間都是回忆頂關是來早期啦是我幾天出國去是今天一些大橋啊 大家在討論啊面臨一個這麼大的危機嗯都大橋的第三台是第三台喔 我的中文也不能說"},{"start":31.298,"end":37.347,"text":"一家人可能爸爸媽媽阿公阿嬤講台語我們也想在高雄講台語這裡人來參加"},{"start":40.981,"end":41.401,"text":"第一代的議員都很關心這個事情"},{"start":65.641,"end":67.102,"text":"所以這幾年其實我們比較有的調整就是一定要用第三代、第四代他們現在的年紀所關心的這些活動跟問題做中心很好 你講到重點了是就是"},{"start":81.772,"end":86.115,"text":"我們傳統僑社的活動,我理解就是固定時間辦餐會僑委會長官要來,辦一個活動,立委會大家辦一個座談,吃一個飯,大概是這樣這種活動就會讓很多出生在,不是出生在台灣的各個國家的"},{"start":108.729,"end":113.613,"text":"他們就參與的意願很低所以這一塊可能 要想辦法處理 不然這個喬社會越來越沒落但是這幾年 教育委員報告的是 我們有確診檢對年輕人 尤其是第三代 因為他出事在當地在那裡受教育 大汗 他的朋友都當地人"},{"start":131.727,"end":134.529,"text":"所以要如何把他們重重地這種結合跟台灣的優勢結合起來的活動所以我們現在就提供這部分的譬如說開很多講座是針對他們價值他們需要的甚至用他們價值的活動譬如說美國人很愛看"},{"start":149.52,"end":162.292,"text":"白人啦 白人要看本局嘛 所以就MLB嘛如果是黑人的部分就是要看MBA嘛所以我們整體不一樣的這個作品 多重的事情那你講的都還是很軟性啦是軟性的如果務實一點 你拿一個台積電的副總的去喬瑟演講 這三代都來了是 其實是這樣 有人我幫你"},{"start":174.058,"end":202.251,"text":"選民保障一項,我最近自己在研究也有這個現象,讓我知道要說台灣郵政的財經政策,年輕人也有人跑來所以要調整啦,傳統的那種方式要改變第二個,我剛才報告裡頭,講到喬教中心,中央裡面有一些要改變你們選的幾個地方先開始做,我是建議啦,這些內容要有策展人"},{"start":203.564,"end":224.761,"text":"要有人策展,那這個策展可以請文化部幫忙我們會跟他們合作?對,第二個譬如說找這個跟台灣歷史、台灣文化有關的學校的老師來合作你不說母和母,都在說中國文化啦因為我們台灣是台灣文化的社會這幾年其實我們學校的教保很可愛"},{"start":227.603,"end":246.568,"text":"每次上台表演的就是我們的原住民舞蹈音樂不然就是客家舞蹈音樂我又說這些事情啊不然你就這個改變完之後辦個活動大家來比賽是然後看哪一些不過委員要說明一項就是說因為我們有算很久我知道所以我們可以選擇就是說我們可能一年內才改變兩個中心兩個中心慢慢去做好那你們改變完下次再來"},{"start":256.551,"end":272.247,"text":"跟大家報告改變網站怎樣大家來探討一下你們報告裡頭提到你們做一些文化的推廣我看到兩個活動一個叫做摺紙 一個叫做書法你們特別寫這兩個"},{"start":277.283,"end":291.053,"text":"這對台灣現在的狀況來說,哇,看到書法想到台灣,看到哲職想到台灣,哇,這叫我的認知殘忍者,這些事情啊,再思考一下,就是說,辦這些活動,因為你,"},{"start":291.593,"end":316.152,"text":"去參加各國的全球不同語言的活動,包括原流會那如果台灣這張放的是書法叫做折扣?議員不會啦,我們還有很多台灣頭版,還有一些多元文化的展現這個事情要問一下教育部跟文化部,我們這單位擺什麼東西?"},{"start":318.874,"end":322.655,"text":"我們一定是出去的時候,給人家一個月用看、用聽、用聽的,他就知道這是台灣的每一項都是,我跟委員報告一項,請處理我覺得啦,你們會用摺紙去抒發,因為你們有這些老師啦"},{"start":333.803,"end":357.413,"text":"不是 那老師是因為他們有記憶比較正 他們出去的時代因應參與這些活動所以這個事情可能再思考一下但是我們已經是多元布局我知道多元但是擇址我們也會把它賦予台灣的意向跟台灣的特色擇址這個事情 我不是說它不好啦我是說這個大家經過的時候"},{"start":359.654,"end":371.477,"text":"加加加加出來是一個台灣101啊加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加"},{"start":390.028,"end":396.271,"text":"一部份當然有算是一部份,主要是國內的部份,因為國內我們其實是跟教育部合作所以在學校的部份是教育部的負責,就是說他必須要去募集有足夠多的學校,小學跟中學"},{"start":408.875,"end":429.36,"text":"國中跟消防若越多好好參加我們的活動因為這個學校一堆 大家我們就是派六個人你若好好越多 我們可以派越多但是你若好若不夠多 這個要跟教育部特別督導我請這個秘書長或副秘書長來協調一下副秘書長的你跟在你的部署啊"},{"start":433.277,"end":437.101,"text":"不然報告啦,我自己很認真,我甚至是卡定了二十年的官司長,說可以把你們的教育部加強宣傳,大家可以多補助這其實對我們孩子的一代的願意教育,是很好的一個幫助啊一個融合是很好,就是說"},{"start":453.816,"end":477.226,"text":"這個再更積極一點啦好我回到那個亂招熊的張敦翰沒有啦 主要是要跟教育部說啦對啦 主要是教育部啦他們的職位就要去整合才會撐過去啦那我就請他們再努力最後啊 請問一下這個委員長你有沒有你念台大你們班有沒有僑生啊喔 我自己的同學裡面有四五個僑生還有沒有再聯絡有他們 你跟他聯絡你們都在講以前的故事嗎沒有"},{"start":483.188,"end":488.412,"text":"要解落什麼?因為他們現在都知道我是委員長,他們都會跟我說譬如說我同學來自緬甸,他就說緬甸補符是怎樣怎樣?如果來自香港,他說香港怎樣怎樣?像我的僑生同學,我們很多僑生同學來自馬來西亞,本來"},{"start":504.025,"end":507.106,"text":"我們經常在群組上討論都是專業的課題我們在過去有這麼多的僑生的同學朋友"},{"start":531.03,"end":557.025,"text":"那這一些僑委會跟他們的關係是什麼就是說台灣有一些事情需要透過僑生來跟大家宣傳說明因為很多僑生他可能大學念完之後他就回到他原來的國家工作了他可能也很關心台灣他也會收到一些訊息我覺得這些僑生的網絡"},{"start":558.726,"end":561.869,"text":"包括現在在台灣讀書的這些僑生,就這整體的網絡,因為現在大家社群的這些關係啊僑委會應該再思考一下,因為這刑部沒有管,就思考這部份我跟教育部有在加強說,要如何更多訊息團,才過去來台灣託租"},{"start":578.223,"end":584.148,"text":"知台派的朋友 不論他現在到世界多一國但是像今年11月 世界留台校友會就會到回來台灣舉辦年度大會 屆時我們都會邀請委員來議員指導我們就是希望說 所有曾經在台灣居住"},{"start":599.34,"end":620.396,"text":"讀書工作的人都可以跟我們保持很好的合作關係所以最快可能僑委會對這些他已經回到原來國家的這一些僑生他可能也是在當地也都是很有成就那我們國家很多的政策可能需要適宜就是說應該是海外嘛 看媒體看外公結果產生誤會"},{"start":621.937,"end":644.476,"text":"所以可能有一些訊息我們要透過我們加強做這個資訊提供好不好這一個部分再請這個僑委會多多努力啊你辛苦了僑委會同仁留守大家也很辛苦謝謝委員因為我們出國去啊遇到這些橋台橋 橋社的朋友都會有很多的鼓勵跟抱怨啊結果沒問的沒辦法因為全世界太大"},{"start":647.498,"end":675.562,"text":"那委員長還沒看過我那是最早的委員長還沒看過 台灣也沒看到他 這裡也沒看到他因為這個都在前往的路上對 都在迴避地這我知道 所以就是大家一起加油好不好 我們希望在海外的這些我們的僑胞或者是僑生的朋友大家一起都為台灣加油 努力感謝 感謝委員鼓勵"}]}},{"id":"167586","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167586","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60530584bfbb51f123f8d268b4a161496bd9854b2f19bd25f7000aec3227c6a1e6575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"10:22:07 - 10:36:18","影片長度":"00:14:11","會議時間":"2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、 邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、 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搶天然氣也是有付出比較高的成本所以目前中油這邊的規劃是什麼"},{"start":127.781,"end":145.941,"text":"第一個工作人員目標先把我們需要的貨氣把它備足那第二個部分的話因為調足這些的貨氣確實是需要金額的那中油公司不管是從包括限金流量的控制包括投資性資產的一個回答問題好不好請回答問題那到底準備了多少那還可以撐多久"},{"start":147.299,"end":176.639,"text":"因為他已經兩週就已經吸收了光是賣油品就吸收了十幾塊了嘛那另外就是去國際上面搶天然氣成本也增加但是三月份四月份都已經掉足了這個貨氣我不是說掉足貨氣市長你來備詢可不可以聽清楚問題啊老是答非所問我不是說質疑你們有沒有備足貨品我是在問說吸收這個價錢你到底準備多少錢那有沒有準備虧損多久那後面的因應之道是什麼"},{"start":177.399,"end":201.908,"text":"是針對價錢的部分不是針對到底你有沒有補足貨源好不好 因為我們時間都有限不要一直答非所問第一個我有錢我才能買得到貨氣吧那這個是跟委員說明的我有錢我才能買得到你知道你自己在講什麼嗎你們先重複一下我的問題啊我的問題是什麼"},{"start":203.998,"end":214.036,"text":"你的問題是說中油到底可以撐多久它現在一直虧損嘛 它現在兩週到底虧損了多少現在在整體的這個價格上面"},{"start":216.314,"end":234.387,"text":"差不多33億左右兩周待虧損33億那接下來還撐得下去嗎如果中東戰事一直延續下去而且油價一定是越來越高嘛然後另外你還要去就是現貨市場搶天然氣那有沒有繼續要維持下去維持這樣子動漲油價有沒有嘛"},{"start":235.948,"end":254.35,"text":"我們協助他做資金的這個籌印之外包括他的投資的計畫這個部分經濟部也投資計畫我誰在跟你講投資計畫不要一直答非所問好不好這是大家關心的議題嘛一直答非所問我剛剛都好生好氣跟你講話為什麼你要這樣子啊"},{"start":254.946,"end":271.209,"text":"沒有 因為委員 那中友公司的話 我剛剛講的投資計畫當然平益物價很重要嘛 我們也都支持你平益物價但是大家也很擔心說會不會 有沒有做好準備嘛這個當然有啊有 所以就是 之後都是會一直動長"},{"start":272.418,"end":289.837,"text":"阿之後我們在中東戰事的期間都會中漲在亞營最低價之下我們政府還吸收了百分之六十剛剛我就講了我一開始的問題我就講到這件事我是問你之後嘛是不是還會一直動長下去 平易物價是不是"},{"start":290.99,"end":315.631,"text":"我們要密切注意戰事的一個變化所以不一定所以不一定這個油價的變動太快反正就是說你現在吸收了你現在吸收了33億但接下來你會看狀況會看狀況但是你會做好準備對會盡量不要讓物價上漲對吧我們盡量控制在物價那另外就是台電部分台電因為去年已經轉虧為盈了但是中油持續虧損那台電"},{"start":317.512,"end":332.97,"text":"有一個部分轉擴會員營是我沒有看到資料啦好像中油賣給台電就是發電用用油實際上它的價格有稍微往下那如果說中油現在自己也都開始虧損了那是不是還是會用過去的方式在支持台電會嗎"},{"start":334.264,"end":351.289,"text":"其實中油主要賣給台電的是發電的用氣不是用油那天然氣的期價都有一個公式每個月會公告每個月公告的期程就會依照日本韓國JKM的指標來去訂定因為現在國際上面天然氣的價格也變高"},{"start":358.231,"end":383.379,"text":"所以中油如果把天然氣賣給台電那台電的成本也變高嘛所以那電價會不會上漲那月底的時候要開電價審議委員會嘛那這個部分大概的方向是怎樣這個部分我們在工作會議裡面會有進行敏感性的分析那我們也是會跟相關的委員陳述我們現在政府對於穩定物價的一個工作的重點的一個努力"},{"start":386.023,"end":403.638,"text":"好 再來喔現在剛剛大家討論到的河山廠到底要不要研議啊台電要送那個再運轉計畫其實為什麼會這樣 很簡單嘛就是大家很擔心說用電會不會韌性不夠嘛台灣會不會缺電嘛關鍵應該是這件事情啦那昨天也有外媒蓬勃報導啊"},{"start":404.679,"end":422.028,"text":"他說雖然台積電和政府官員一再保證局勢穩定可是台灣發電最大的隱患就是台灣對於液態天然氣異常的高度依賴這是彭博講的你怎麼能說外媒是中共同路人呢然後呢如果說電力中斷就會影響台積電"},{"start":424.349,"end":453.288,"text":"我覺得剛剛我也聽到民黨的委員剛剛好像是郭玉琴吧我覺得還在那邊帶風箱要抹黑啊說前面的國民黨的委員一直在問提出再運轉計畫到底什麼時候河安會可以核定就是好像不顧河安要趕快讓他通過怎麼河安很重要啊國民黨都不重視河安沒有人不重視河安從頭到尾沒有人不重視河安只是在確保河安OK的情況之下台電怎麼樣可以讓河山繼續運轉"},{"start":454.529,"end":483.404,"text":"因為補足電力假設不夠的話它有一個比較穩定的發電基礎是這樣那當時我記得我們之前在也是在教育文化委員會修核安法其實核安法我相信那個主管機關核安會主委可以慢慢點擊到台上來主委很清楚嘛核安會核管法的修法只是讓核電廠研議法規鬆綁因為以前規定如果核電廠要研議必須要在停役之前就提出申請"},{"start":484.454,"end":511.269,"text":"那來不及了嘛所以我們把法規鬆綁讓他庭議之後也可以提出申請只是這樣而已但至於說要不要申請要不要合可那當然是政府自己可以決定啊台電可以決定要不要提債運轉計畫啊河安會可以根據河安來判定他有沒有符合河安的需求然後來決定要或不要這個都是政府可以決定的啊怎麼會好像變成在野黨不顧河安硬要什麼河山廠研議怎麼會這樣亂講呢"},{"start":512.89,"end":541.259,"text":"然後現在台電已經提出再運轉計畫了嘛這個台電請問一下你們現在已經提出再運轉計畫對吧還沒有3月底準備提出嘛有兩項嘛一個是營運計畫嘛能不能再營運第二個是老化分析就是河岸的部分嘛安全的部分老化分析還沒有現在目前提出的是你們到時候一定會提這兩個嘛對吧就是就算要再運轉也會提這兩個嘛對 檢測完以後那代表說台電自己也想要河山研議啊"},{"start":542.159,"end":557.642,"text":"如果台電沒有要核酸研議的話你提這兩幹嘛應該是這樣講就是說 占益轉計畫它實際上是一個整備計畫它實際上是有三個部分一個是組織人力的狀態第二個大概設備的維護的狀態第三個大概就是以前已經是一個"},{"start":558.844,"end":585.825,"text":"營運的文件我怎樣去把他帶回來文件準備的但是因為你們做這個動作然後接下來河岸會又要審查可見政府現在是朝向看看河山廠能不能演繹的方向去做嘛應該這樣講否則你就不用做這個事情了啊應該是這樣講對不對我台電公司我必須要知道我現在對嘛我現在這個反應爐我跟你講如果說按照之前非核家園的立場的話你這個事情你都不用做嘛你現在做這件事情就是想說欸看看"},{"start":586.645,"end":611.604,"text":"會不會在核安OK的情況之下又可以營運又不會影響安全我們核三有沒有演繹的機會嘛你現在就在做這個事情嘛可是你知道嗎你們台電做這個動作民進黨的立委可能會罵你們喔因為我們那時候在修核管法的時候那個時候好像有一個什麼張雅玲委員啊就說藍白修核管法就是為中國攻台開後門我不太懂核電廠演繹到底跟中國攻台什麼關係啊范雲講說核電重啟有國安風險"},{"start":616.801,"end":639.82,"text":"結果接下來很可能台電都會變成中共同路人所以我在這邊建議你看連執政黨的立法委員都認為核三或甚至之後核二如果把核廢的乾除的問題處理好之後他們都認為說這個核安問題很可怕 中共同路人所以台電跟核安會要做一件事情就是你們要加強跟社會的溝通"},{"start":641.061,"end":655.382,"text":"我看到政府一直講核電研議或之後的新式核能有三個條件嘛前提下才會重啟或者是使用新式核能三條第一個是核安確保第二個就是處理核廢料的問題第三就是社會共識"},{"start":656.499,"end":672.977,"text":"那社會怎麼樣有共識社會共識就是你要告訴大家比如到時候核安會你看完台電的報告之後你看完核安沒問題你就要大肆宣導核安沒問題大家放心社會才有共識嘛所以第三個前提是伴隨著第一跟第二嘛"},{"start":673.758,"end":693.622,"text":"還有大家對之前一直恐核廢料每次以前只要討論到舊式論事核電的議題就會有人在那邊講那些情緒性的語言什麼核廢料放你家 核廢料放你家所以台電你現在如果你要提那個再運轉計畫我相信有很多像之前的人就會來攻擊你要不然核廢料放你家核廢料放台電總之你家"},{"start":694.222,"end":721.651,"text":"這種無法就事論事的問題那你們就要去跟大家講核廢現在要怎麼處理現在是核二核三又有乾式儲存槽有一些濕式水池裡面的人要幫忙移出來放乾式儲存槽乾式儲存槽放在裡面安不安全還有就是要確保那乾式儲存槽或室外的室內的你是要把核廢料放在那邊一輩子嗎還是實際上台電現在也要去找一個終極儲存廠運用現代科技或是用什麼方法"},{"start":722.051,"end":749.747,"text":"可以讓核廢料做最有效的處理這個都是大家要加強社會溝通的才會有社會共識啦所以其實我個人是樂見政府髮夾彎啦就是說之前是一直把核講到好像你只要主張核電你就中共同路人然後就怎麼樣怎麼樣但至少你們願意提出再運轉計畫這是往好的方向但是還是很多人會用那種負面的東西來做溝通那你們台電 核安會有沒有加強社會溝通有沒有"},{"start":751.232,"end":772.728,"text":"其實針對核廢料處理剛才委員講那些東西委員都有清楚抓到實際的台電目前處理的狀況表示台電目前的資訊有關於乾式儲存或是核廢料處理的這一塊其實這樣資訊實際上都是不停的在揭露的我希望能夠再加強好不好再加強好不好那核安會勒核安會"},{"start":774.375,"end":797.489,"text":"對於這申請我們會有好幾次說明會在地跟在地的居民做說明會還有所有資料我們都會上網譬如說他們在民主黨計畫台電在民主黨計畫我們會把上網然後我們審查意見也會上網台電回覆也會上網民眾也可以在網路上提出意見好 那請問一下主委"},{"start":800.291,"end":825.63,"text":"那河山如果最後經過審查都願意再運轉的話那會不會為中國 像民進黨立委講的這就是為中國攻台開後門你覺得會不會台電你覺得會嗎 你是幫中國攻台開後門嗎我是做技術專業的 國安的議題不是我關切的那你覺得會不會有攻台後門 你不知道所以你覺得那個立委講的有道理"},{"start":826.493,"end":848.656,"text":"我們只管核能安全對 這個要問國安會 國安會來評估一下 到底核三嚴疫所以以後如果要再運轉的話 可能召委要請國安會一起來大家才能夠做更完整的討論如果你們認為沒問題 加強社會溝通 才會有社會共識 好不好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167585","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167585","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053051e6c915185639eb086282839459da0854b2f19bd25f700b9486bad3d5cf06a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"10:16:14 - 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部長好 我想昨天晚上其實有一個蠻駭人聽聞的新聞就是在台中地方法院有一位已經有多次犯刑的"},{"start":37.794,"end":52.374,"text":"這樣的一位這個毆打律師的女性她又再一次的毆打了台中律師公會的理事長狠狠甩了這個理事長的一個耳光我昨天其實在晚上的時候我就有看到那個影片"},{"start":53.115,"end":80.034,"text":"非常的震惊在法院在法庭前面而且法警就在旁边竟然然后可以纵容像这样的一个加害人就一个这样行为人已经屡次犯行然后都去殴打律师去恐吓律师所以呢在这样的一个情况之下当时当然就是现在这个律师公会基本上也发了声明而且也对于就是说法警有在"},{"start":80.774,"end":104.854,"text":"旁邊可是呢卻沒有依照現行犯逮捕那麼證為說法院的這個措施他的做法不夠積極他們感到非常遺憾那當然就是本席在這裡也曉得有關於法院的管理不是法務部的事情這是屬於司法院的事情但是呢在這個事情上面我覺得他反映他一再的"},{"start":105.967,"end":126.336,"text":"突顯了一個重要的問題就是律師的人身安全是不是應該要受到更積極的保護我們知道其實律師被毆打被暴力傷害已經不是第一個案例了那麼在這些年裡面其實我們常常都會看到有好些這個律師被毆打被"},{"start":129.097,"end":150.666,"text":"傷害甚至被撞死被縱火燒死這個案例像2024年以最近幾年來來講就是台中當時就三名女律師是接連遭受攻擊就是被這次毆打這個台中律師公會的理事長的這名女性她這個連續被攻擊然後在2021年應該在更早2017年那時候"},{"start":157.799,"end":162.9,"text":"在台南地方法院外不是有一名律師也是被他的對照當事人開車撞死"},{"start":164.429,"end":192.202,"text":"還有呢還有一個是這個屏東的一個律師這是比較近期的在2024年一個屏東律師他在受委任去處理房屋點焦的時候在現場竟然也是被對照的當事人預謀縱火最後呢他不幸這個被燒死身亡所以類似這種案子其實屢見不邪那過去律師公會也一直期望能夠去修法在律師法裡面能夠加強就是對於"},{"start":194.332,"end":210.161,"text":"防害律師職務和攻擊傷害律師的行為予以法律制裁但是本席有看到就是法務部好像對於這個部分始終沒有積極的提出修法建議有嗎你們在律師法裡面你們有提案修法嗎"},{"start":215.474,"end":241.417,"text":"首先我要譴責這個對律師的不法的一個攻擊這個是因為是在野好滑潮他也的確是在執行他的一個職務那這被攻擊我們對這個個案我們會速查嚴辦如果涉及到刑惡會速查嚴辦那我們在一個後續作為我們會回來檢視這因為發生在法院的那一部分那我們檢察機關這邊我們會注意到偵查庭的安全"},{"start":241.877,"end":264.372,"text":"尤其是律師跟參與程序的這些的所有包括證人 尤其證人會被追打或是被攻擊或者雙方會互相的攻擊這個都會有這樣的案例那我想剛才委員有關心到就有關於律師法的修法律師修法 這我們再來研究因為以前我們沒有針對這個來我們會來研究本席希望法務部這次要積極一點因為這些年來其實"},{"start":271.937,"end":291.591,"text":"律師被傷害毆打的這個案例是屢見不顯而且嚴重的時候還甚至還被撞死被燒死那麼律師公會已經不止一次的表達說應該要更積極的強化律師的人身安全那很遺憾的本席在這次的看到法務部的立法計畫當中雖然說有"},{"start":293.352,"end":304.317,"text":"要提出律師法的條文修正但是跟要保護律師的人身安全要處罰對於律師造成人身傷害或是有些攻擊妨礙職務的行為這樣的一個情況並沒有提"},{"start":309.379,"end":330.489,"text":"案修法要予以制裁所以本席希望法務部這個部分能夠盡速的提出相關的這個條文那本席在這邊也會積極的提出相關的修法案我覺得就是說保護律師保護我們戰野法槽讓他們能夠安心的去執行職務這個事情是非常重要的這也是跟我們的司法秩序有關"},{"start":331.67,"end":340.648,"text":"那麼接下來呢本席要提這個問題其實剛剛這幾位委員一開始就已經提到了就是既然我們的這個"},{"start":343.752,"end":361.241,"text":"我們的這個檢察官在這個執行犯人的這個執行刑罰裡面竟然忘記忘記了說是還有一個受刑人他沒有被執行"},{"start":364.298,"end":388.706,"text":"而且呢更離譜的是說這個案子並不是這個檢察官這邊自己發現的而是因為這個當事人他要出境結婚被攔下來了然後結果反覆的詢問才被查出來所以如果說這個當事人他一輩子都不出國那是不是過了30年之後這個受刑人他的這個刑期就會永遠消失那本質認為說這個問題其實是很嚴重的"},{"start":395.851,"end":419.45,"text":"跟委員報告這一件因為最主要是卷太多了的確是有發生到有時候若把這事情受刑的分案來執行的確是有疏失那首先還好是因為他行刑時效還蠻長的所以他這部分沒有利於時效那這裡發現執行那的確我們這有做檢討那剛才我在林委員在"},{"start":420.351,"end":434.106,"text":"是的 我有做檢討我想這部分避免在此列發生我想我們會在做管考以及在宣導教育訓練這部分我們會再做一個加強就是當然啦 本席這邊有幾個建議"},{"start":437.629,"end":460.325,"text":"包含就是說你們是不是未來要建立系統化的追蹤因為現在已經進入到數位化然後資訊化的這個時代很多的這種發現執行它的這個程序然後甚至就是未來應該要不要在刑事訴訟法裡面也應該要明定執行指揮書的簽發期限避免再度出現有被遺忘了五年"},{"start":461.246,"end":488.145,"text":"然後的這種判決都還沒有去執行那麼我覺得就是人力不足固然是一個主因可是也不能說因為人力不足所以我們就認為說像這樣的一個情況是情有可原反正這個受刑人他最後也是知道了這個五年之後他還是被攔截到了然後又抓回去服刑可是我們不知道其實還有多少的案件"},{"start":488.985,"end":507.011,"text":"是判決確定了但是沒有執行所以我希望就是法務部這邊應該要進行全面的清查那麼同時對於失職的人員也應該要進行懲處本身有看到就是說你們的懲處基本上只有最後的這個懲辦的書記官他的懲處是考積劣一等只有處罰這個書記官那股長已經退休了"},{"start":518.129,"end":540.517,"text":"當時的執行檢察官也辭職了轉任律師結果其他的人都沒有事這個基本上我覺得社會大眾是不能接受的這種明顯的這個失職的情況竟然沒有辦法在他的層層的這個環節考核的這些人員還有失職可是卻沒有辦法處罰本席是建議喔"},{"start":545.512,"end":569.578,"text":"法務部應該要訂定出相關的這個懲處的懲處的程序不應該說這個因為什麼退休啦然後轉正啦然後所以他們的過去的失職的情況這個追究就一筆勾銷應該要再研議好嗎這部我們再來研議我們回去再去一個檢討"},{"start":571.851,"end":582.239,"text":"這個案子是監察院有特別提出來的所以本席認為這個問題也是很嚴重這邊我就不再繼續再討論這個議題剛剛慶祺委員那邊您也回答了很多了好那接下來我想要再談到另外一個議題就是因為部長您在最近3月11號檢察官首長的交接典禮上面有公開的要求檢察官要超前部署年底的九合一"},{"start":599.621,"end":621.209,"text":"選舉查案而且甚至特別強調國安的案件偵辦不能夠再以傳統的形式思維來去處理那麼當然這段話就引起了高度的關注主要大家就會想要了解知道部長您這裡所謂的非傳統思維的具體法律定義是什麼"},{"start":623.612,"end":638.406,"text":"因為現在整個境外敵對勢力就用假訊息的去做一個借選那我想這部分我們不能夠是姑息一定要去正視因為我們認為選舉最重要就是公平公正"},{"start":639.187,"end":660.233,"text":"能夠在一個平和的狀態去選舉那我想每個參選人、候選人都希望沒有任何的其他的包括金錢、暴力、假訊息的這些的一個介入影響選舉的一個公正所以我們這部分以前都沒有注意到國安那從上一次的選舉就開始發現都假訊息充斥在尤其現在"},{"start":660.453,"end":682.716,"text":"在AI的世界有AI的一些的生成的所以我們現在有Meshing法法也有修法就是有些的AI生成的這些的這些必須法律都有這個依據所以我們要去做一句重視我想我們是法律人本身在這裡很強調所謂的非傳統的法律思維到底它具體的法律定義是什麼"},{"start":683.357,"end":698.669,"text":"本席擔心的是說你這邊是不是這個按指或是有意的去做指導就是希望未來檢察官在辦案的時候呢相當程度的可以就原本要求的嚴格的證據法則"},{"start":700.931,"end":720.448,"text":"然後可以放寬可以放鬆我希望就是說所有的檢察官就是未來的相關司法人員在辦案的時候應該還是要回到那個嚴謹的證據法則畢竟檢察官辦案必須要倫理跟證據並重所以你這裡的所謂的強調的非傳統思維的確是會讓人感到"},{"start":726.335,"end":745.687,"text":"會混淆 會混淆 不知道您指的意思是什麼不過因為今天我們現在講的就是說您是希望說在九合一選舉的查查的部分能夠更加嚴謹當然這裡也會要提醒部長因為我們知道其實過去大家一直都會質疑司法特別是在選前就開始大範圍的動作"},{"start":749.229,"end":757.373,"text":"那這可能會引起很多民眾認為說是不是司法在借選尤其是過去的幾次選舉常常看到檢方在選舉前期大規模的約談基層的里長參選人"},{"start":770.399,"end":793.089,"text":"可是之后呢其实又常常又多以不起诉处分甚至到了法院的判决还有判决就是无罪的这个情况所以像这样子的一个选前大动作的侦办选举之后却查无实据的模式其实已经严重的伤害了司法的公信力那么本席在这里要请教就是说法务部为了要如何确保"},{"start":793.749,"end":818.291,"text":"超前部署而不是針對不會是針對性的打壓就超前部署他不是針對性的打壓你們要怎麼去做這件事情跟委員報告這個超前部署因為選舉的有一定的一個期程那因為法務部要督導因為最高檢察是一個督導的一個小組我們是選舉查查我們是查查"},{"start":818.931,"end":835.136,"text":"那查查不能夠等到選舉已經明天要投票現在才去查查因為我們一個台灣的民主政治是得來不易那台灣的民主政治是透過選舉一票一票去投出來的所以"},{"start":835.836,"end":847.885,"text":"這個一個選舉的一個公平公正跟純潔度我們必須要做一個確保所以我們一定要超前步就是說我們現在要我要提醒檢察官在期前策略費用你一個期檢報告選舉還要公報出來公告之前"},{"start":851.287,"end":860.073,"text":"我們就要開始部署了我想這個是在座提醒立切的選舉我們都是要做提前的部署因為有些是送錢的基本上也支持部長您的看法您的這個查辦的這個方向但是本席還是希望法務部能夠制定明確的標準針對什麼叫做借血對於這個借血案件的發動你們應該要建立更"},{"start":874.744,"end":878.327,"text":"發動門檻還有審核機制尤其是另外就是說選後也要去檢討特別是你選前大眾做的偵辦但是選後都不起訴或是被判決無罪這個未來是不是要列入檢察長以及檢察官的年度考核否則的話就檢察官反正聽從上億然後隨便的辦案"},{"start":895.6,"end":921.138,"text":"那到了這個之後可能又最後又不起訴或者是說又被判最後法院可能被法院可能判無罪這個基本上我覺得都已經嚴重的影響到司法的公信力那本行希望說你們能夠訂定更嚴格的標準好那最後本行還有一個很一個也是跟時事題有關的我們知道其實呢在你們今天的報告裡面有談到兩岸司法互助的問題要共同有兩岸共打擊司法互助"},{"start":925.461,"end":946.163,"text":"那其實這兩年來我們知道你們這個兩岸司法互助的這個案件非常的少你們現在書面報告上面都是寫說從簽訂協議之後到最近然後有總共有多少案件但是實際上從蔡英文政府民進黨政府執政之後兩岸的司法互助的共打的這個機制基本上已經是"},{"start":947.324,"end":976.907,"text":"沒有什麼很積極的在運作然後互助的案件也非常的少那麼在這個去年年底的時候呢就曾經有發生過一個案件就是大陸那裡突然就遣返了13名的通緝犯跟刑滿人員而我們這裡台灣方好像完全不知道這件事情所以本席想要問的就是說你們在這次報告裡面有提出有指出調查局有請求協助棄捕遣返"},{"start":978.529,"end":992.35,"text":"這個六案當中有沒有包括去年十二月大陸一次就突襲遣返了十三名的通緝犯跟刑滿人員有包括這十三個人嗎這部分我請國點司司長來待會回答"},{"start":994.313,"end":1022.743,"text":"跟委員說明就是說兩岸的這個司法互助其實並沒有中斷仍然繼續進行然後我們每年都有這樣的一個統計數據所以就是說以今年來講我們現在數據仍然有相當多件就依照不同的項目比如說像這個通緝犯的遣返或者是情資交換文書送達一條回答我就是說是去年年底大陸遣返回來的這13個人當中有包含你們當時請求互助的這個案子裡面嗎"},{"start":1023.903,"end":1053.432,"text":"有包括你們在所請求的六案的這個名單之內嗎是就有關這個向大陸請求棄捕遣返這個部分的實際上哪一些人要對大陸請求棄捕遣返這個部分是屬於刑事局在處理那他給我們的這一些人裡面是屬於我們通緝犯的我們回到台灣來我們就會依照相關的規定來處理所以有關這裡面有沒有是屬於我們特別對大陸請求大陸棄捕遣返的這個部分可能是屬於刑事局的這個"},{"start":1054.052,"end":1069.631,"text":"本席要講的就是說因為這種突襲式的遣返其實對於邊境的安全會造成很大的衝擊尤其是路方在金門水頭碼頭進行丟包式的遣返由公安押解上傳結果現場的旅客就"},{"start":1073.787,"end":1097.094,"text":"就是非常的驚訝怎麼會有這樣的一個遣返的這個看起來遣返的這個犯人然後跟他們一般旅客是混雜在一起這可能會造成國安和防疫的漏洞那麼當然陸委會說現在沒辦法我們只能務實接收可是我很希望就是我們的法務部跟調查局這裡未來能夠在跟對岸的司法互助裡面能夠"},{"start":1098.494,"end":1121.094,"text":"更積極而且希望對方有些什麼動作我們這裡要知道要知情不能說我們完全對於他們什麼時候要遣返遣返多少人一無所知而且更何況是部分的人員在入境之後因為在台灣他沒有被通緝所以自己就走了"},{"start":1121.855,"end":1144.09,"text":"他們在道路犯罪然後呢在台灣可能因為沒有被通緝所以呢回到台灣之後呢就自行離開這未來會不會又會造成我們這個治安的這個漏洞本席希望說你們應該要有更積極的作為喔那這個最後的本席也希望就是說你們可以再下次可以提供一個報告就是說是對於我方請求以及成功遣返以及陸方單方面"},{"start":1145.191,"end":1157.643,"text":"主動遣返案件比例你們不見得需要就是這麼多年就是大概近5年或近10年你們的這個兩岸互助的情況然後給我一個更清楚的一個報告這樣可以嗎"}]}},{"id":"167593","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167593","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053529d4b3ffd6072ee6c6d05596fd77c73854b2f19bd25f7007c3b8a8a8bb2a00e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"10:40:46 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麻煩委員長請委員長"},{"start":8.2,"end":36.873,"text":"王委員早安 委員長老闆好 我要先跟你說一下在我們臺南的崇明國中的青少棒球隊要到美國移地訓練U14啊對 U14 得到你大力的協助沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有"},{"start":37.153,"end":63.059,"text":"大家都要找你啦 所以我先幫你找到因為校長跟球隊的家長其實是很感謝他們還甚至於說願意全部的隊員上來謝謝不要客氣不要客氣因為我行有餘力 預算補助有限但是我們從社會各界來你用社會力來協助他們而且他們到那邊跟美國的職棒隊的移地訓練之後也希望到時候橋界那邊也可以給你一些安排會會會 我們會安排讓我們這裡的年輕人也許過兩三年"},{"start":66.38,"end":90.188,"text":"他們會入選小圓謀或什麼他可能會有一天會到那邊發展跟僑界產生關聯我覺得這個是一個在台灣難得可以超越黨派融合大家的一項運動所以我本席在質詢之前先謝謝我們徐家慶委員長跟僑委會提供的協助那接下來我要請教一個問題因為我記得我們過去這十來年僑委會一直在推動一件事情叫做僑委跟榮譽職的年輕化"},{"start":91.949,"end":116.571,"text":"那在推年輕化也要注意到所謂的穩重也就是說我們不能一個人團結沒有那個主力 也沒有在參加也沒有在關心那個僑母 淑母 協安局來做僑母委員 這也不好我知道你們有一個過渡期讓關心僑界的我們的台僑我們的僑界的朋友能夠進入到台灣相關的公共事務所以這是好事情所以我就今年就來一個統計"},{"start":117.892,"end":125.837,"text":"我發現我們僑委員增加540歲你知道怎麼增加540歲你們平均年齡從64歲在2021年推動年輕化到2026年統計起來變成67歲增加3歲我們有180個僑委嘛這樣3歲就是540歲為什麼會這樣子就是說我們在推動年輕化怎麼整體年齡大幅往上升原因在哪裡"},{"start":144.944,"end":170.172,"text":"跟委員說明因為能夠到喬武委員的這個角色是萬中選一了啦那他們基本上是第一個當然有非常高度的這個熱情跟他們的使命感然後願意出錢出力出時間那通常來講我們其實這幾年我們多增加開始有1.5代的甚至二代的"},{"start":171.972,"end":186.58,"text":"人擔任僑務委員了但是這些年輕的如果是五六五十歲以下的基本上他們會跟我們表示說他們雖然很願意幫忙可是他們還在忙碌他在上班啦對然後他的家庭他不可能回來這裡圓山飯店開一個僑務委員會對不是這樣而已還有他們的黨隊贊助很多"},{"start":194.325,"end":215.303,"text":"我理解這個我個人是不排斥僑界的年齡、資深或資潛因為我們在國外在做但是我知道委員的期許就是說 我知道這個概念所以我在布局上面的思考就是說過去差不多僑委都一代的就在一代的移民因為他們跟台灣的感情很接近但是現在我們就是漸漸說"},{"start":219.366,"end":234.865,"text":"下降到1.5代的啊也可以到1.5代差不多都是五六十歲啊再來就是第二代的你怎麼推動我我們大概在長期的觀察有就是說僑務委員或者榮譽職的年輕化是你們努力的目標但是"},{"start":235.686,"end":249.722,"text":"坦白講願意貢獻社會經驗基礎足夠有錢還要有閒都要高一個年紀但是除了喬運委員以外我們其他的榮譽職你們要年輕化確實有個困難所以我是建議這樣子"},{"start":252.485,"end":274.564,"text":"單純統計僑務委員你們年齡要降下來我判斷不容易所以我會建議僑委會是不是把你們的榮譽值做一些適度的分配就是說這個榮譽值就是鼓勵僑親慢慢變成什麼職位把這個統計的平均年齡一起納入納入之後就可以得到一個大的picture就是說雖然到僑務委員會 總體榮譽值明明是下降的但是我們在榮譽"},{"start":275.965,"end":294.473,"text":"因為跟台灣社會打拚 台灣社會榮譽職是比較年輕的可是在僑界的話搞不好榮譽職反而是比較年輕的我們有四種榮譽職嘛所以我們在顧問他們促進維護保護確實是年輕化增加很多所以僑委會其實有些外交部做不到的事情是你們可以做的包含海外台商"},{"start":295.413,"end":317.575,"text":"台商的組織全美台商會啊北美洲台商會啦就是這些喬商的組織平均年齡它會往下降因為它企業會有二代接班的問題所以你們未來所謂的推動年輕化可以把它分社群再統合然後最後再看喬務委員因為喬務委員畢竟是國家政府機關裡面的一個職銜"},{"start":318.336,"end":344.193,"text":"他是有這個法定的年齡一直往資深走也未必是好的現象所以這個題目我是提醒僑委會關心就注意一下就是說你們在不同因為他的基數比較 就是說他人數少啦所以他這樣一統計很容易只有幾個 八百也不少啦專業來看是當然少啦所以我建議就是說以後僑委會可以呈現的是我有哪些榮譽值哪些社團然後他的平均年齡再往下降原因是什麼"},{"start":344.793,"end":366.06,"text":"有的是你們任命的可以經過你們人為的讓他下降有的是像企業喬商他是他們企業自己的新陳代謝那個不是你們的功勞做得好或不好就是我們會協助他們也年輕化注意一下年齡的部分那多鼓勵一些喬界年輕世代的投入像這一次那個這個職棒選手Phil Chow"},{"start":367.641,"end":386.296,"text":"不錯啊那他父母在僑界那麼久了台灣人啊也可以邀請他來參與僑界活動讓僑界有新的元素那第二個我要請教的是你在1月23號東京參加台灣商工會僑務座談嘛你去東京參加這個會"},{"start":387.617,"end":401.373,"text":"我特別注意到你有強調多一分準備少一分損失然後希望防衛韌性我們台灣叫做全社會韌性全社會韌性的希望我們的橋界橋社呢也要扮演好相關的角色"},{"start":402.534,"end":425.731,"text":"我好奇啦 因為我們台灣推動的全社會韌性 包含那個手冊那是在台灣的社會 都在天災 都在人禍 都在冰災 大家要扮演的角色那你在海外其實這個角色 災也許未及於你直接啦 沒有直接及於你那你的反應呢 也沒辦法直接在本地反應所以那個小局數 搞不好對他們不太適用"},{"start":426.531,"end":445.597,"text":"委員跟您報告去年我們從僑務委員會議第一次用專題的方式在做全社會防衛任性的專題演講以及演練那結果僑務委員反應非常熱烈他們說我們現在在全世界各地也都遇到很多的天災人禍所以你這一套訓練對我們其實是好的"},{"start":447.278,"end":475.26,"text":"阿珊之石就把台灣用在他那一邊然後還有第二種功能第二種功能就是說如果台灣有需求的時候你們怎麼幫忙台灣所以我們是有分三大組在演練所以我現在就是說第一個台灣總是地震啊颱風啊多天災那又面對中國五六十年來的威脅軍事的威脅所以台灣的全社會韌性包含網路攻擊堪稱教科書啦久病成良醫嘛"},{"start":476.161,"end":496.432,"text":"所以對於位處拉美啦北美啦澳洲啦或其他各國他們可能會遇到風雪啊巨大啦所以我們的教訓可以成為他的學習那個叫他山之石但是希望他對台灣面對全社會任性扮演什麼角色我覺得要更精準一點他到底要扮演什麼角色是在海外幫台灣發聲"},{"start":497.352,"end":512.469,"text":"我們有做三大類型的角色第一個就是緊急的物資籌募金財力跟物資籌募第二個就是國際宣傳第三個就是人力招募而且我們還分地域在第一島鏈的部分是哪幾個國家的區域然後再來是亞太、東南亞以及紐澳"},{"start":519.457,"end":532.564,"text":"然後第三個區域再擴大到美西然後再來美東以及其他歐非中南美因為你地域越遠你的角色狀況是不一樣的所以第一島鏈的部分它的角色會變更重所以我們甚至連外館的同仁都要一起加入我們的演練計畫所以我們這幾年呢事實上台灣因為面對天災很多我們有很多防災的經驗沒有錯但是不只是這樣我們在民主的最前線也是受到挑戰最多的"},{"start":549.073,"end":572.312,"text":"所以我們也有很多經驗因為時間關係我給喬維一個建議根據現實發生的狀況其實喬維會扮演什麼角色比方說我們在非洲我們的外交力量位及於那裡可是我們有喬維委員所以當我們的國內如果發生這樣的事物的時候在非洲擔心家鄉的人怎麼得到資訊他第一個資訊取得"},{"start":574.433,"end":598.831,"text":"第二個 得到資訊之後 幫忙發聲 幫自己的國家講話第三個 募集必要的協助 這協助未必是錢 募集必要的協助越近當然越直接 越近感受越熱切 越近僑胞的人數越多甚至於你看這一次在中東的戰火下 伊朗的戰爭 明明台灣協助撤僑千余位"},{"start":600.034,"end":625.801,"text":"那還有要配合中國演戲說我們都沒有撤僑我們總共只有三千位已經兩千多位回來了台灣其實在這一次的撤僑有做透過僑訊息提供訊息透明然後幫忙發聲協助募集必要的協助這個大概是僑委會可以整合僑社投入全社會韌性該做的事情然後你可以模仿小局書你可以弄個看僑什麼書"},{"start":626.561,"end":640.328,"text":"是的 所以我們在海外我們會把英文版的輸出出去所以很多人來跟我們說去我們就給他們英文版讓他們自己download那就還是謝謝你對我們新少棒從民國中這邊提供的協助那希望繼續得到你們的幫忙 謝謝謝謝委員指導"}]}},{"id":"167592","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167592","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605319d6baacadcb937cb086282839459da0854b2f19bd25f7002ae69a5bbf2089335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"10:35:57 - 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我們有請部長好 有請鄭部長委員好部長好好那我想最近大家對於少年事件處理法呢有許多的討論跟爭議啦不過我想今天也是想要再跟部長做更多的討論就是說在少師法的核心呢其實就是以保護優先 教育先行所以這個目的呢其實是要讓我們的"},{"start":36.791,"end":53.742,"text":"這個孩子呢能夠健全自我成長調整他的成長環境並矯正其他的性格所以我想我們還是一個很重要的重點就是專業的輔導跟支持讓他們可以降低災犯順利的能夠回到這個社會裡面"},{"start":55.765,"end":82.535,"text":"但是我想當我們在講保護先行的時候我們還是要去正視我們現在的制度上面的確有一些問題否則這可能就會讓這個保護反而讓大家非常的害怕反而就變成一個實際上的一個崩解的狀態所以我想接下來就想要跟這個部長在針對幾個特別是矯正學校上面來去做討論矯正學校的目的其實是要讓這些孩子能夠獲得授教權"},{"start":84.67,"end":112.788,"text":"但是根據基層教師教父小組的第一線反應呢我們現在校內的氛圍還是偏向於是戒護安全優於教育輔導我想這個其實之前也有非常多的委員都來關心過這一題那我們今天其實所有的今天的內容呢都是第一線的人員從社工程特教從教父老師這邊得到的一些回饋所以也希望說可能在實務上面我們可以怎麼樣來協助大家做改善然後來落實我們兒少的一個保護"},{"start":113.809,"end":134.879,"text":"還有我們這些孩子的受教權所以第一個問題就是說教學連貫性常常因為安全考量或是人力不足而中斷就例如說我們可以看到在日本他們有很多的執訓來提供給這些孩子那我們台灣也有像餐飲課的孩子他們也是有烘焙課的課程可是我們從第一線人員的回饋裡面得到說"},{"start":135.859,"end":143.275,"text":"有些孩子他們本來應該要進行實作課程的時候卻因為介乎人力調度不過來所以孩子最後只能上理論課"},{"start":145.014,"end":166.619,"text":"那我想現在我們在這個教政學校的孩子呢其實他們成長的背景都比較可能52%我看了一些報告都是來自於競評或是單親就是這個家庭資源其實是相對薄弱的所以他們其實不太有機會可以去探索他自己那在我們108課綱裡面其實有個重點就是希望可以讓他們去探索嘛"},{"start":167.179,"end":196.046,"text":"那現在就變成是說當這個孩子要探索之前我們先有一個最大的問題是我們有沒有更多的穩定的資源例如心腹資源 特教資源讓他能夠安心去探索所以這是第一個部分我們還能不能有更好的一個比例那在第二個部分是說當他去做探索跟他去做這些課程的時候我們常常又會因為介護跟教學衝突而造成他最後可能只能上理論課所以我們是不是可以去"},{"start":197.566,"end":217.696,"text":"盤點我們因為借戶人力不足而導致他沒有辦法進行實作這樣子的一個狀態到底統計數字上面有多少我們是不是可以來做這兩件事情好謝謝那這部分因為這部分我有關心我是不是請那個小政署署長就關於邵教肖跟邵官所這部分沒問題好謝謝"},{"start":220.143,"end":240.171,"text":"委員好 謝謝委員跟我們提到這些問題其實每一個小中學校 現在我們有四所小中學校每個小中學校裡面都有一個校長校長是由教育人員來擔任的他會評估當下的那個介入安全跟教育的一個課程的安排他會做評估的所以說我們不會偏重在介入安全"},{"start":241.656,"end":268.918,"text":"我的問題在於說我們知道但是我們也非常清楚的知道裡面流動率非常的高所以我們是不是可以更清楚的用數據來去呈現說有多少的實作課程因為介乎人力不足而導致他最後只能上理論課因為其實在植訓來說最有趣的地方就是實作課對不對我們不可能全部都上理論課我們一定要有更多的實作課讓孩子有機會去操作因為對於一些特教在特教教育上面也會有一些透過實作的方式讓孩子可以更穩定"},{"start":269.879,"end":293.439,"text":"所以今天如果說我們可以有一個更清楚的明確的統計資料的話我們就會知道說到底多少因此而受影響否則現在都是一種感覺上對不對所以這件事情是不是可以做一個盤點呢我們可不可以從現在開始來做統計受到影響的狀態那第二個問題呢其實就是說我們現在還有一個就是司法矯正主導跟教育輔導介入之間的一個專業磨合"},{"start":298.523,"end":322.815,"text":"就是也是現場人員告訴我們說矯正人員跟教育人員的一個教育訓練本來背景就是不太一樣就是過去我們都是以矯正人員為主可是我們現在已經加入了很多不管是新福拉特教其實都已經把這些人員專業給納入可是他們現在沒有共同的職前訓練也就造成說他們沒有辦法彼此理解而造成標準不一那現場管理也就造成了一些困難"},{"start":323.795,"end":352.39,"text":"所以我們是在想說有沒有可能呢這個是可以來做一個針對新進的矯正人員我們提供一個心理發展的專業增能課程讓他們在這個制度的設計之下可以彼此了解然後不會變成是說一般都是扮得非常黑的黑臉管秩序然後完全不理解他的心理發展跟創傷因為大部分的孩子都有一些創傷嘛所以我們是不是可以往這個方向來做還是"},{"start":353.35,"end":373.366,"text":"實務上都有這樣在做每一個新進人員都會一年會至少調到我們書裡面來訓練一次那在現場運作上的話像校長是教育人員副校長是我們矯正人員所以說校長副校長他們兩個人都會去溝通去評估當下的話我們應該怎麼處置是最好的基本上我們還是以教育先行這樣的目標在推行的"},{"start":373.953,"end":399.419,"text":"好 我想 因為我們今天所諮詢的內容是第一線的回饋所以也許我們這邊的理解跟第一線的也是存在落差所以是不是有可能我們可以來提供給我們一個資料就是說我們到底現在安排的這些對於矯正人員來提供的一些不管是心理啦 特教啦這些職能的訓練 真能訓練的一個數字到底每一年有多少 每個學校做多頻繁"},{"start":400.819,"end":409.861,"text":"一個一個矯正人員是做到上完一次之後就結束了嗎還是他有持續的在上這個資料是不是就可以提供給我們好我們再提供資料給委員謝謝那再來就是說"},{"start":411.79,"end":433.261,"text":"還有還是他們說他們第一線工作者反映他們的工作量非常的大甚至要分攤非專業背景的政策業務嚴重的壓縮他們個案輔導的品質實際上來說輔導教師可能一個人要對40個人所以這要如何去維持品質呢我想這個部分其實也是蠻需要我們這個"},{"start":434.962,"end":454.768,"text":"矯正署再來協助我們現場人員的一點就是說他們很在意校內日常處遇如何運作以及如何共同接觸學生所以是不是可以研議一個建立專屬矯正學校的跨領域之前與在職共同研習來確保我們的矯正人員跟教育人員能夠用同一套語言來溝通"},{"start":457.561,"end":475.159,"text":"這個部分是可以的嗎可以可以可以 謝謝委員的指導那大概什麼時候我們可以來追蹤這個相關的進度呢先跟委員報告其實我們的輔導老師的一個比例的話對最高是1比31 最低是1比14所以說以市所學到的沒有不會達到1比40這樣的一個輔導老師這樣的比例"},{"start":475.359,"end":486.805,"text":"好 那沒關係因為我們現在是從那個現場得到的一些回饋還是說我們再約時間針對這一題我們再來詳細討論好不好好 那再來因為我還有別的題目還有就是特教資源"},{"start":489.414,"end":518.532,"text":"好那基本上就是在2023年我們特教法修正之後呢有強調要保證特教學生的學習權益跟合理調整而是以我們現在的四所矯正學校的障礙生來說呢合理調整跟特教支持的落實有明顯的落差也是老師們的回饋啦就是說矯正學校的特殊教育正在面臨嚴重的鑑定與結構性體制的困境因為呢他們的背景來源其實相當的複雜可能不管是入校前中錯啦然後或是幫派的文化等等的"},{"start":519.412,"end":545.154,"text":"那這就導入他們在入校之後的障礙樣態非常的複雜跟傳統的教育體系是存在的一個落差所以是說我們現在送鑑定的個案呢常常因為資料難以佐證或是難以排除藥物的影響而被判成非特教生也就是說他因為今天是特教生他才能夠得到特教資源可是他今天被判非特教生的時候他就拿不到這些特教資源所以"},{"start":546.34,"end":567.976,"text":"這是一個問題那再來第二個就是說特教還有我們非常強調就是個別化的一個需求來提供給他針對性的一些支持可是我們現在在矯正學校常常會強調一個所謂的一致性的管理跟戒護安全所以就變成是說因為矯正學校的孩子落差非常非常的大樣態也很不一致所以"},{"start":569.138,"end":584.34,"text":"現在一般特教體系用的一些教材教案到了矯正學校也常常不適用所以我們是不是可以做一件事情就是邀請我們的鑑定單位還有矯正學校的特教老師共同建立一個更適合"},{"start":584.921,"end":585.241,"text":"是是是"},{"start":601.904,"end":622.05,"text":"跟委員報告目前的話我們有經過鑑定這案的特教學生總共是146名那我們的那個特教的老師是11名平均是1比13點多那目前我們跟國教署雙方談的是說1比15這樣的比例所以說我們是有符合國教署這樣的比例可是未來都我們朝向1比8的比例來邁進"},{"start":622.97,"end":638.211,"text":"我想這裡面其實不是比例的問題當然比例就是說比例的確是維持但是我們其實特教老師的流動率也非常高新任的比例也非常高那再來就是說今天講的重點其實是孩子沒有辦法被判為特教生"},{"start":640.054,"end":666.705,"text":"不過那個是一個持續性的鑑別問題我們有特教老師在那邊我們會訓練我們的特教老師具有鑑別的能力如果這個學生他已經出現是智商是學習障礙是情緒障礙等等的話我們會再重新再跟他鑑定所以他們多久會評估一次呢這個要看那個老師他現場看到的情形只要發覺他當下有這樣的障礙需要去跟他鑑定的話那個老師就這樣做這樣的安排"},{"start":667.455,"end":689.3,"text":"好那這個部分我們是不是也可以約時間來詳細的討論呢因為其實特教的問題也是蠻複雜的啦那我想最後一個一點這個可能要請這個教政署衛福部還有法務部跟衛福部一起來討論就是說這些孩子離開學校之後他如何回歸社會那其實回歸社會他就要回到他原本的家庭裡面"},{"start":690.06,"end":714.468,"text":"那如果家庭可以支持的話他基本上就可以在家庭裡面好好的回歸社會可是如果家庭不能支持的狀況之下他可能就回到幫派或是離開家庭去的別的地方對不對 中廟都有可能好 那所以呢我們現在在家庭端其實我們也都非常清楚的知道52%的孩子家庭其實相當不健全所以這可能就要跟衛福部來持續的討論如何的去支持這些家庭的功能變好"},{"start":715.448,"end":736.045,"text":"這樣子才有可能讓這些孩子真正的是能夠在家庭裡被支持因為我們從這個一些統計的研究發現很多的家長回去也是繼續打罵啦或者是不是非常好的一個管教方式啦所以我們是不是可以跟這個衛福部來重新我不曉得現在有沒有一個非常好的機制來去給家長支持"},{"start":738.647,"end":762.868,"text":"這個部分可不可以簡單說明一下是 跟委員說明一下其實從學生入校六週內的時候我們就跟衛福部的保護師做逆境少年他的家庭自治服務方案我們就會跟他做一個聯繫的我們希望說這個少年能夠貫穿式的一個保護服務從他入校開始一直到他出校為止該有的學籍轉嫌就業的媒合還是他需要什麼社政資源的接觸的話我們跟衛福部的保護師都有密切的在聯絡當中"},{"start":764.13,"end":785.909,"text":"而且他出現的時候我們在追蹤一年但是我想 因為我們兒少的再犯率相對來說也還是偏高啦所以表示說這個機制上面到底運作的如何對 那這個部分是不是也可以給我們現在你們的一個運作機制的這個簡單的說明好不好這個應該是可以匯報或者是就可以提供的吧 對不對好 我們再提供詳細資料給委員好 那我們就在約時間再來詳細討論 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167591","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167591","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60530302deb9654bbbdfd268b4a161496bd9854b2f19bd25f700db08b1e8b7a4a0825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"10:36:24 - 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謝謝"},{"start":27.27,"end":47.717,"text":"先請教陳主委前一次本席在核安會業務報告的質詢當中有向我主委請教就有關於這個核子反應器設施運轉執照申請審核辦法這個當中這個執照換照申請書所檢附文件的項目那但是讓本席持續的不解的是"},{"start":49.178,"end":65.06,"text":"前一回的辦法的修正只有增加輻射相關議題的查核評估報告以及什麼耐震安全評估的說明那對比起民間團體許多嚴格的換照條件的要求那修法後的"},{"start":66.821,"end":93.757,"text":"這幾點是否能夠確保核安這個本席是存疑的那上次的詢答我有問及說我們有考量國安威脅或複合式的災害這些因素來就是有沒有來考慮到這些因素然後到換照的申請書內那主委說都會考量那可是在辦法中看起來就沒有明文你看我的PowerPoint我想請教主委的是這是怎麼一回事"},{"start":95.058,"end":104.606,"text":"難道國安的威脅或複合式的災害這些考量因子是可有可無嗎難道不是換照考量的必要條件嗎 主委"},{"start":106.038,"end":131.478,"text":"這點請高組長跟委員說明那運轉執照申請省的辦法的一些修正我們是參考國際的做法主要是針對機組的設備進行安全評估那這個部分是跟國外一樣的那委員所提到的一些國安議題啊或者是一些緊急應變這種東西因為已經有既有的法規在管制"},{"start":132.301,"end":159.043,"text":"那我們在審查的導致已經有規範了所以台電公司要依照審查的導致去提出他們的因應作為出來所以你們沒有把這個辦法放進去裡面基本上是認為有其他的規範在規範這幾個我剛提的這些因素是沒錯不是沒有忽視沒有都有納入評估然後都有因應的做法出來"},{"start":159.764,"end":179.771,"text":"那另外有關於核子事故發生時民眾的這個防護的疏散這個核子事故緊急應變法他訂定區域民眾的防護的應變計畫有規劃設置這個民眾的這個集結點避難收容的場所那防護站以及登記這個邊管處所等緊急的應變場所"},{"start":183.712,"end":211.067,"text":"那審計部在113年的總決算的審核報告中還有指出說核安會規劃的這個部分核子事故緊急應變場所竟然位於這個災害淺市區那經過統計這個民眾集結位於這個災害淺市區的共計有25處那避難收容處所有的這個3處都位於土壤異化高淺市區"},{"start":212.228,"end":236.846,"text":"那防護站還有這個登記這個邊管處所也各有三處都是災害潛勢區那這樣的情況其實對民眾的生命安全已經造成一定的潛在風險那我想為了何止事故風險發生時那民眾的生命安全不會受到其他因素的影響所以本席要建請我們核安會要如實的協調地方政府"},{"start":237.626,"end":258.385,"text":"那依據最新的這個災害顯示的情形那來進速來審視這個檢討應變場所的這個妥適性同時也要規劃這個原備地點跟措施喔所以我想請教主委的是你有掌握審計部在113年提出的這項問題嗎那你們有要重新檢討嗎"},{"start":263.696,"end":288.207,"text":"報告委員 針對委員所詢問的這個地方的這個有災害前世的這些應變場所其實目前各地方政府已經在他的核子事故民眾防護的一個應變計畫中就是有進行了相關的一個考量那也就是應變場所裡面他們會有一些備援的場所那我們也藉由像年度的核安演習或是平時的一些疏散演練去做一個就是檢視"},{"start":289.187,"end":307.163,"text":"然後去檢視相關一個場所包括去年在河山場做的河山場跟屏東縣做的那個河岸演習也都有把備援的場所納進去做一個演練以上好那所以重新盤點過後的這個避難地點可不可以給我一份報告"},{"start":309.204,"end":322.457,"text":"目前報告中都有 可以再提供給委員既然今天經濟部跟台電都在場我是不是也請賴次長跟許副總能跟本席說明一下就是說高放選址條例"},{"start":324.259,"end":345.849,"text":"現在內部討論到什麼柑桑那本席要再強調一次就不管核電廠有沒有運作運作多久或者它是否有重啟用過的這個高放射性的廢棄物就是產生了那就必須要被妥善處理那我們要務實的去面對已經產生的這些放射性的廢棄物才能對我們的後代子孫負責"},{"start":347.009,"end":362.476,"text":"所以我們看到 民間團體他已經提出了民間版的草案那請教 河安會啦還有經濟部跟台電政府的規劃到底什麼時候會有這個雛形相關的這樣的法案 草案有什麼雛形可以供外界來檢視不然先請教經濟部好了"},{"start":365.017,"end":391.008,"text":"好謝謝委員首先跟委員說明過去的所謂的核電廠我們在營運的期間其實都跟世界同軌在做包括低放或是說燃料棒高放的這些儲存的一些做法那現在包括甘氏的儲存草也相對的在建立之中第二個委員你剛剛所詢問到這個條例的問題去年4月已經成立一個專案辦公室"},{"start":391.408,"end":418.115,"text":"是那這請專家來去研究說世界使用核能的先進國家他們的立法的規定大概是嚴格是怎麼樣他們在立法過程社會關心什麼問題那現在在做條例的研擬之中那當然也我們會廣泛的在收集社會各界的意見好那大概是我們現在目前今年工作的所以有時間表嗎這個"},{"start":420.903,"end":436.116,"text":"這個我們現在沒有辦法跟你說出一個比較明確的所謂的time table因為這個做得好比做得快可能還是要更重要一點好 那請何安惠就是對於這個高放選址條例"},{"start":439.733,"end":451.303,"text":"報告委員 那個行會安全管制機關那我們會以安全管制機關角度來提供經濟部在立法過程中所需要的專業意見好 那台電呢 台電"},{"start":456.675,"end":473.071,"text":"這塊來講我們大概跟經濟部會共同合作那目前來講選址條例那一塊民間版沒有錯委員會提出來了那我目前來講其實這個條例我們也參照包括日本包括德國的條例在做那也跟民間的一些團團我們密切在溝通一些意見"},{"start":477.836,"end":504.484,"text":"OK 好那最後我想核電是否能運轉它終究涉及我們的能源轉型的進程我們很清楚國園園一直都有在進行原子能這個關鍵技術的研究以及它發展這個能源及核後端的技術然後也有很積極的在發展綠能科技的研究譬如我們本土化的一些智慧配電的網路等等"},{"start":504.864,"end":522.7,"text":"好 所以我要請教國務院院士那最近的研究有什麼新的突破嗎那對於我國的這個能源韌性有什麼極大的助益的研究成果嗎高院長是 報告委員我們五年前跟行政院申請的70MV新型的反應器中型反應器"},{"start":523.42,"end":543.332,"text":"建置計畫今年可以完成建置,明年就可以開始測試運轉可以提供像我們陀201新戰顯靈劑現在我們舊的那一台30MVP是提供大概40%的供應量將來能夠提升到七成到八成那因為它是比較高的能量所以除了顯靈劑以外也可以做診斷醫療"},{"start":544.893,"end":569.906,"text":"那我们去年年底就是肝功能的显影剂也获得世界的百大在全球的世界百大的唯一的合一药物数十年来第一个拿到研发创新的百大那同时我们还要开发诸多的像摄氏线奶Pisen这个新的药物可能是现在诺华公司其他公司在市面上药物的那个"},{"start":570.746,"end":581.57,"text":"收費大概將來可達到一半所以你現在跟我報告的都是有關於這個新的核醫藥物對醫療的部分藥物韌性我們配合國家韌性計畫240億我們有28億規劃4年內28億要發展開發9種藥物韌性的計畫還有因為"},{"start":592.014,"end":612.264,"text":"因變這個變化的時代可能有核子意外事故對我現在是在請教你能源韌性的部分能源我們開發三種解毒劑就是比方說普魯斯蘭在發生核電廠事故的時候這個駝跟色這兩種可以做解毒劑體內解毒劑另外"},{"start":613.024,"end":637.431,"text":"在布,如果有發生一些髒彈或者是核子,普通零布彈的時候這個第二種合一藥物也可以做解毒劑那第三種就是金屬,高金屬的放射性的合種藥物我們會開發三種合一藥物的解毒劑這叫藥物韌性的計畫希望我們能夠開發這12種藥物都能夠在4年內達到國人能夠自己生產"},{"start":638.971,"end":664.705,"text":"院長你是很認真的把原子能跟藥物對醫療來做結合可是我現在剛問你的問題是說我們整個能源韌性就是說您做很多的所謂的對我們因為你是研究單位那整個的能源轉型的進程那我們的包括我就剛說你核後端的技術或者是你的所謂的發展能源的這些關鍵技術你現在的一些成果如何啊"},{"start":668.27,"end":668.471,"text":"像我們"},{"start":670.495,"end":699.352,"text":"做電網能源方面電網是很重要的所以電網我們開發的設備現在在台鐵雲林區處也取代因為新的綠能的發展所以有20幾個區處我們10幾個區處已經取代原來西門子的產品因為綠能進來以後供電會比較不穩定難調控那我們開發這個電網這個新的技術這一項也得到世界百大對就是要問您這個看有沒有再進一步的突破"},{"start":699.952,"end":716.506,"text":"所以另外一個核後端的技術我們也配合國家SMR的計畫我們也開發研究將來SMR也可以將國內的所以在SMR現在目前還沒有太有突破性的沒有辦法現在我們就說配合國際趨勢能夠將來把它減費好 了解OK OK 謝謝謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"167590","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167590","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60532f4450c6ad89371818cbbd4f69c426c0854b2f19bd25f700db08b1e8b7a4a0825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"10:34:04 - 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請時部長請時部長部長好部長好部長我想要先請教幾個關於這個健康幣的問題首先是想要先請教一下健康幣你們預計使用的項目是用公務預算支出還是用基金預算"},{"start":32.2,"end":44.371,"text":"我們目前的設計上就是我們的公務預算是做這個平台的維護那真正這個幣是跟這個民間的企業單位合作所以我們沒有發這個現金的這種幣"},{"start":49.274,"end":63.16,"text":"也有用這個基金的部分嗎?就是一部分公務一部分基金嗎?沒有基金主要就是在建構那個資訊平台那其次我想要請教一下目前APP設計的進度跟這個兌換平台的設計已經完成了嗎?"},{"start":66.352,"end":83.519,"text":"我們現在有兩個機制一個是祭典祭典的話我們是搭載我們現行的健保的這個健康存摺以既有的健康存摺這個平台去擴充裡面就未來就會有一個健康幣專區"},{"start":85,"end":100.927,"text":"把你從事的這些健康行為包含打疫苗啦這個做癌篩啦等這個我等一下會問到因為你們原本有一個APP嘛對對對就在那個APP阿另外一個是國健署的這個Health Go這是原本的國健署的APP"},{"start":101.627,"end":118.614,"text":"那現在就是健康幣會搭載它這個所以有Housego也會有健康幣然後你們的健康存摺也會有應該是這樣健康存摺上面是積分的累計因為這裡面有一些個人資料所以不拿來我們等一下再討論這個部分因為今天主要就是要跟你討論這個政策細節"},{"start":120.675,"end":138.944,"text":"所以那你們現在目前有預計說合作的商家有多少預計每年會指引多少預算啦那財務結構有完成了嗎具體有跟哪一些商家目前有在我們跟幾大超商都有在洽接他們也都展現了相當的這個合作意願這樣"},{"start":139.764,"end":159.169,"text":"OK 所以聽起來好像還是很模糊的初步的階段是不是是嗎部長因為你們曾經是承諾說4月要如期上線啦但是現在好像還有很多細節還在洽談中會不會延期應該是這麼說就是我們原本是希望這個是獨立上線"},{"start":160.029,"end":187.466,"text":"那但是這個之前呢 也有委員 向辰青會委員也在指教說這個政府有好多個幣包含這個文化幣啦 客家幣啦 健康幣希望整合所以這個行政院呢 院長也有指示希望朝這個方向所以我們現在會搭配整個這個整合方案來推動所以期程上我們可以往後延所以你確定會往後延了嗎對不可能4月上限來不及了"},{"start":188.406,"end":216.94,"text":"因為的確這裡面有很多細節到現在好像還是很初步還需要去整合的階段那在上線之前因為我目前在網路上能夠收集到的資訊也有限啦就想要先請教一下部長你們在推動健康幣的政策的時候是不是也有考慮到公衛的三段五級的概念對有嗎但是因為根據媒體報導你們是說透過篩檢可以換幣但是他們在公衛政策上就我們的理解的分類他是屬於第二段第三級"},{"start":217.742,"end":219.656,"text":"就是中間那個部分所以"},{"start":220.595,"end":249.465,"text":"我是想問說想要跟部長討論是你是不是應該把這個政策理念用公共把它去重新檢討有沒有可能不要把它放在第三級而是從第一級就開始健康促進的部分跟委員說明我們也有在考量跟這個穿戴式裝飾結合包含那個運動走路一天走多少步把它納入也是可以基點沒有錯因為其實我想你們應該也有去做一些國際政策的研究像新加坡的健康促進局"},{"start":250.345,"end":267.456,"text":"它還有一個全國部署挑戰它後面還有拓展深度旅遊的這個健康計畫然後像台北的這個YouSport台北樂運動的這個計畫所以其實我們最主要就是說再跟你討論這個就是說你們應該再往前提然後把前面這一段"},{"start":268.337,"end":290.697,"text":"健康促進把它放到很重要的一個比較重要的一個角色其實根本來說我們希望結合的是生活型態就是那個生活習慣的改變所以這裡面呢包含這個運動一定會在裡頭那因為我們現在的這個健康存摺就是可以把跟運動表已經可以結合在一起了所以這個可以計算進來"},{"start":292.779,"end":312.429,"text":"那另外還有像那個生活型態的評估我們也會把它納入到這個健康幣裡面的對所以你這裡就牽扯到運動的部分了所以我想問那我想問說你這樣子跟運動幣會不會有重疊疊床架屋的部分那這部分你沒有去跟運動部對接去討論嗎"},{"start":313.93,"end":339.945,"text":"因為這樣會不會有不會就是說我們是累積點數啦並不是發錢出去所以你運動就累積的點數那累積的點數之後呢再去換成健康幣去做其他的這個折抵比如說他未來在超商我們跟合作的超商就可以去折抵折扣買東西的時候就可以有折扣大概是這樣這樣子跟現在運動幣不會有重疊的地方嗎"},{"start":342.126,"end":368.898,"text":"因為運動幣目前是他是他是發出來啊對對對沒錯但是他是發出來可是你去做了這件事情之後他們兩者之間那我們未來的合作是他拿了這個運動幣去做的這個運動的活動可以來累積健康幣所以就變成一個生態循環然後拿了健康幣之後呢那麼再去換運動幣可以嗎可以再換回去運動幣嗎譬如說我們再跟一些運動業者"},{"start":371.08,"end":395.438,"text":"合作他就可以換他的這個門票入場的折扣這樣對所以其實我也想要跟部長分享就是說因為其實健康幣你們在規劃的時候不要太封閉不要說好像你只能夠做什麼事如果今天你做了就像你剛說的因為我健康幣是我先做了一個動行為我可以累積這個credit變成一個可能是健康幣那你的健康幣就應該讓他可以更廣泛的運用在"},{"start":396.358,"end":424.801,"text":"社會的其他地方包括你要換成運動幣也好換成文化幣也好你要去超商消費也好我認為這樣子才有辦法去做到真正去推廣第一級的健康促進因為事實上也有發生大家你們去研究一下可能也有發生說之前在推廣很多的運動活動的時候說你如果來運動場所所以你就可以打折等等的可是最後發現說事實上真的會去運動的他本來就會去運動"},{"start":425.701,"end":450.282,"text":"所以就只有他會拿到這個優惠那不運動的我就是不運動所以我的意思就是說想要跟部長講就是說你這個所謂的健康幣你在規劃的時候你就應該讓他通用性再多一點因為我本席也是支持這樣的概念我們如果從第一期就開始讓大家健康促進的話所以因為目前為止可以看到的好像是說我目前網路上查到因為你剛剛講的跟我查到的資訊是有一點落差"},{"start":451.102,"end":458.649,"text":"譬如說是打疫苗完成篩檢定期健康檢查他可以換成所謂的無糖飲料健康蔬食那我覺得"},{"start":460.263,"end":486.095,"text":"應該要把這個所謂的鼓勵運動以及這個幣的通用性擴大不然他你就沒有辦法促進到那些他本來沒有去參與的人你沒有給他更強的動力啊所以這部分就是想要跟你說你們應該再去多串聯其他的就像你剛剛說的是不是行政院這邊應該再去串聯不管是中央的幣也好甚至是到地方政府他們有哪一些可以大家串在一起合作的"},{"start":486.795,"end":509.31,"text":"然後真正促進說我都不想去參與的這些人可以讓他有動力他搞不好就是想說我想要賺一點這個文化幣所以我來運動一下對不對我來健康檢查一下我覺得這樣子才會比較有這個好的正向循環是不是有嗎會嗎有有謝謝委員的指教我們朝這個方向來做最大化"},{"start":509.91,"end":526.99,"text":"對 然後所以剛剛談完通用性其實我現在還要再講回去你剛剛說的因為你們有這個全民健保行動快易通那我們在APP上面會遇到幾個問題第一個是現在其實絕大數的絕大多的功能都整合進去健保快易通"},{"start":527.771,"end":555.144,"text":"那你在架構這個健康幣的平台的時候你剛剛有講到又有見習生然後又有這個裡面健康存摺其實我認為你這樣子民眾要下載很多的APP那你是不是應該盡量整合到現在已經有最多人的地方因為你現在這個健康實習生見習生啦見習生第一個你們下架了嘛可是他們之前只有500人下載那我有看到部長你說很不滿意嘛可是"},{"start":556.304,"end":574.159,"text":"這個部分你們是不是應該要想辦法整合到現在健保快一通有多少人1500萬人次曾經下載過的是1300萬對那健康存摺使用的有多少730萬如果常規在使用每個月三個月內都有使用的大概是兩三百萬"},{"start":575.3,"end":600.138,"text":"兩三百萬 常規使用嘛 但是真正有的東西他已經下載過的有1300萬對嘛 所以他其實量體已經很大了嘛所以你應該是直接整合進去你就不用再去說用什麼見習生 Health Go這個越來越複雜 然後好多個APP一般人怎麼用那對於長輩來講 他要去學習要再去下載一個新的也很困難所以你是不是應該朝向直接把它整合進去的方式"},{"start":601.859,"end":623.435,"text":"而且你如果還要獨立的話,你還要編一個推廣費、教育費我們當時候會把它兩個分開,最主要是因為健康存摺上有太多的醫療資料所以在做後續的這些操作的時候,怕有這些個資之安的問題所以我們希望健保的My Health Bank當存就是健康資料就好"},{"start":623.695,"end":639.142,"text":"不要再去做其他後面的這些兌換各式各樣的活動讓它這個資安上也比較好管理所以它是累積計算積分之後要使用的時候轉到另外一個平台那這個平台我們現在是設定在"},{"start":640.243,"end":662.441,"text":"這個用國建署的這個這個平台去去承載然後他在跟其他很多的商家合作比如說他要產生這個流水號去換的時候都在這裡就不會拿著這個健康存摺去做這些消費行為就是讓健康存摺比較單純的部分你可以再去思考一下其實他也應該是有機會是把它獨立出"},{"start":662.901,"end":686.687,"text":"在這個平台在這個APP裡看怎麼樣把它區隔出來好我們也就比如說在互動的時候它有哪一些資料是絕對不會被拿出去的對我覺得這個部分你們應該思考一下要不然你努力一個然後就是跌床架屋之外你要去推廣它到很多人下載我看都不如你現在這個APP把它整合好所以我覺得這個部分你們應該朝向APP整合的方式"},{"start":687.347,"end":708.984,"text":"那我也要有個 最後有個小問題要反映喔我們有接獲到很多的民眾投訴這個問題就是說在你們健保快衣桶裡面如果要登入使用健保卡的功能就需要用這個OTP的驗證碼好 但是現在驗證它產生這個驗證碼之後它又要求你要另外登入另外用瀏覽器登入你有沒有覺得這個在操作上有點怪怪的就是"},{"start":714.622,"end":739.694,"text":"目前市面上的APP都朝向可以直接綁定然後就是讓Google甚至是Line這個部分來做串流那你如果說資安有疑慮不做串接還可以理解但是你收了驗證碼的功能我們應該說希望在手機上操作而不是直接跨到瀏覽器所以我們在用的時候常常就是它出了這個之後我要複製這個OTP的碼之後我要再打開一個瀏覽器然後去找到這個對應的網頁然後再輸入進去"},{"start":742.52,"end":764.454,"text":"他是不是應該可以直接用跳轉就好因為你這樣其實是很複雜像我們辦公室的同仁就遇到這樣子的問題我想那個因為部長你有沒有看過這個概念就像是什麼像是周星馳的電影你有看過那個太陽能手電筒嗎就是你不用光照他的時候他不亮你要他亮你還要用另外一個手電筒去照他亮你等於是"},{"start":765.274,"end":789.562,"text":"多了一層不知道在幹嘛用的一個功能我有點提的這個是虛擬健保卡啦因為它就等我們的實體健保卡在就醫的時候使用所以它需要有一個驗證的流程但是這個驗證的能不能再簡單一點這個我們來研究一下謝謝您給我們指證這個是虛擬健保卡我知道我剛剛說就是要使用這個健保卡功能的時候它要有這個OTP驗證的流程"},{"start":791.283,"end":819.976,"text":"那我們認為要驗證沒有錯但是你應該讓他的流程更順一點其實我們那個健保的APP裡面那個健康存摺的時候是很簡單他甚至可以用那個人臉辨識就可以進去每一次這個很簡單但是這個虛擬健保卡確實是比較複雜因為他會連結到你後面的那個就醫的那些評證這樣可是你都掃臉了其實紅膜技術這應該就是已經確保就是你本人了嘛"},{"start":820.416,"end":834.737,"text":"就是所以你這個流程請回去檢討一下好不好可以本席辦公室一個報告書面報告我們再請健保署研究一下這個虛擬健保卡這個部分對 因為你既然都可以掃臉了應該就確定是這個人了嘛是對 好好 謝謝好 謝謝 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雙哥副理是很高興他們就這十幾年來做得很好啊現在要做專法"},{"start":73.908,"end":98.949,"text":"我想是不太可能,邱委員該檢視,我看他,常委員有沒有討論,我是說最多是專賬,用一個專賬,還是說處理這件法來修,修得更完善一點也是一個方法,所以讀到這個你就頭痛了。好,我們今天要講那個原住民法,原住民醫療法,"},{"start":100,"end":116.199,"text":"我們原住民的平靜壽命,我們盧宣毅主席一直在關心,就是說他這樣,你收起來,你也收起來,你也上來我國建署的"},{"start":117.756,"end":132.424,"text":"他們的VC肝啊什麼的都沒有進步啊他們的原住民平均壽命比我們平地少了7歲多嘛那這7歲多到底現在第一有沒有改善啊那你們到底做什麼"},{"start":135.077,"end":148.168,"text":"其實跟委員說明我們這個是很努力在縮短那如果比較其他的國家的落差其實我們做的不會太差啦當然這中間還有很多需要"},{"start":150.069,"end":169.055,"text":"跟紐西蘭的原民、澳洲、美國這些有原住民的國家來相比這個落差我們做的是還好啦但是當然還是應該要更努力來縮短這中間當然從幾個原因嘛從它的死因分布"},{"start":170.595,"end":195.158,"text":"我們一般國人的這個死因的這個ranking來看有幾個比較不同的地方嘛第一個是癌症的這個分佈會不太一樣第二個是這個交通事故意外傷害這個在國人死因都是在5名以外但是在聯鄉地區是比較高的所以這個事故傷害這個是比較高"},{"start":196.239,"end":218.754,"text":"在癌症的這個裡面也可以看得到他的這個口腔癌跟這個肝癌的比例也是比較高所以他的確實有跟一般不一樣所以我們才需要去去成立這個專責的這個研究單位我們在國衛院裡面那麼去國衛院做什麼你老婆做什麼你們到底做什麼事啊"},{"start":221.83,"end":246.457,"text":"國會要做很多事情那就這個援助民族健康的部分第一個最重要就是建立它的資料庫健康資料庫這個是最重要把這個援助民的相關的疾病的型態還有它的流行病學把它建立起來所以前幾年都在大概建這個資料庫那今年開始主席會員鄉就公共衛生所主任都在幾十人都在拚這個"},{"start":251.219,"end":276.97,"text":"他長期服務偏鄉啦 跟蘇爾園一樣啦平地的那些感染啊 鼻屍肝啊 酗酒的這個還有一些感染症 事實上平地已經已經 已經咳嗽了 像吸肝已經排除了那原住民這邊 因為肝病的死亡還是偏高嘛國健署你到底有做什麼 我問你到底有做什麼"},{"start":279.684,"end":298.553,"text":"報告委員其實我們原住民的BC肝篩檢的涵蓋率其實是高於全國的平均我們的涵蓋率大概是75%然後全國是61%那我們原住民的慢性肝病跟肝硬化的標準死亡率其實也從111年的美食外人口52.1下降到112年的39.5"},{"start":301.414,"end":319.742,"text":"所以其實在整個照顧上篩檢然後跟整個標準化死亡率其實都有在進步當中那我們也會再持續關注原住民區相關的醫療照顧服務屏東有八個原鄉 也算台灣最多的那譬如說從牡丹不要只講牡丹玩很好玩 牡丹那邊生病"},{"start":326.755,"end":334.471,"text":"到東港安泰要96分鐘96分鐘那你們台北市的居民"},{"start":335.922,"end":358.672,"text":"不舒服六分鐘就可以到達你想要就醫的地方所以那個事實上我都解決了他的路程就是這樣所以這個交通跟這個時間是第一個天然的障礙這個保證你有什麼想法嗎"},{"start":360.333,"end":382.873,"text":"你很不可以說這樣就要繼續到那裡下去啦不是那裡啦 繼續沒進步啦屏東是這樣就是因為屏東很狹長啦真的很長的 從南到北那資源多數集中在屏北啦比較靠屏東市長資源多數集中在屏北所以屏南確實是一個比較資源"},{"start":385.055,"end":407.555,"text":"少的地方 三個主要醫院我們一直在挹注希望大家用分工合作的方式 區域聯訪主要的南門醫院 恆春基督教醫院跟我們自己的部立醫院所以南門醫院讓它主要發展在外科為主這個基督教醫院我們就主要讓它在內兒科的部分內科的部分"},{"start":410.738,"end":437.081,"text":"新學館 我們現在在我們的恆春醫院也要設新導館很認真 做新導館嘛 跟你合作的嘛 新導館嘛另外再上來一點 我們在那個訪療 也是所以我們一路希望用接力式的都是有一些責任醫院來提升救命的服務 用接力式的方式來"},{"start":438.522,"end":456.757,"text":"還有他的衛生所,衛生所的配備還好但是如果那個什麼診療站,就分的診療站那個設備就很簡陋了那一直想說要加強那縣政府都公共的,我想要出台就要出錢,也是要衛福部啦"},{"start":458.339,"end":470.27,"text":"衛生部有在寬鬆預算嗎另外一個就是這張是長照其實我們在衛生所也在強化也把衛生所的醫療資源用醫學中心的任務"},{"start":474.774,"end":486.543,"text":"就去前進這裡的偏鄉所以像我剛才說牡丹現在就義大去支援高一的支援那也下來那個地方所以我們也是用這個醫學中心來補儲支援這個衛生所"},{"start":490.222,"end":504.912,"text":"那你現在在那個造物師裡面有設一個科在管這一塊嘛那一直有人講說那個層級太低啦是不是把它升作醋啦或是什麼"},{"start":507.639,"end":534.495,"text":"不然你要想辦法我們會科長怎麼去指揮其他的人有師長在的有師長師長是有的主要是說我們未來這個在主改之後我們會讓這一個師擔負更多的這個原住民如健康的政策擬定的任務會讓他投入更多的人力跟資源這樣所以你要說到要做到"},{"start":537.036,"end":551.32,"text":"那個原住民的平均壽命73點多嘛 我會記一下 有在減到嗎 有沒有在增加啦就是這個落差在縮短啦 以前差10歲啦 跟全國漁民差10歲啦 現在是差7歲"},{"start":554.921,"end":578.155,"text":"所以希望能夠因為我在巖鄉也看到一些老人家壽命也有到九十幾歲的看了都很高興所以他不是沒有那個條件也不用講說他們的那個體質應該都可以九十幾歲都可以到達的所以應該是要"},{"start":579.096,"end":602.528,"text":"公共衛生的部分還有我們照護的部分包括長照的部分都應該好因為像國健署就是六癌篩檢因為現在四個變六個六癌篩檢要加強啊原鄉離山地離島原鄉你的醫療上來就是你的得症啦在大都會裡面有什麼好出來的每天都衝"},{"start":606.304,"end":628.331,"text":"每個人的門庭弱勢 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海環都一直慢慢在增加小白也都加進來了我們看到每一波都有不一樣的故事從大概前年航海王後來就是台積電護國神山再來就是現在AI所有的周邊的這些公司什麼時候會輪到金融跟船廠"},{"start":151.752,"end":170.525,"text":"我想剛才就是一樣假設你真的被市場肯定未來具有成長的前景市場效率性高的話自然會看見其實這個結構上跟展現出來的數據是有它的內容不一樣的內涵現在外資的持股比例有多少現在大概是48"},{"start":173.879,"end":181.487,"text":"每天當沖的量大概占1兆的裡面大概占百分之多少?剛剛前委員提在47%所以1兆多大概有45、48%全部都是靠當沖"},{"start":189.844,"end":207.911,"text":"所以你覺得這樣的一個情況再加上外資來的部分那個QP還有還有什麼我們外資來的還有什麼FINIFINI的量有多少外資的交易嗎對剛剛同學講三十幾趴不然請那個張正山好了張局長"},{"start":217.677,"end":226.327,"text":"那還是請 因為我們現在是那個喔 現在換人了是不是 喔 張振山是這樣我剛遇到他 我說 欸 你怎麼落跑"},{"start":228.014,"end":246.554,"text":"他在的時候,他好比證券市場的護國神山我看他那穩穩穩穩的上,我說這下算嘛,你那兇兇就滅了轉任到別的地方,不曉得現在新任的可不可以撐得住那個,報告委員齁,我們外資現在的成交量大概35%"},{"start":249.937,"end":270.083,"text":"再補充一下市場交易所當沖的量平均來講的話也是36%沒有到47%所以基本上交易所的話當沖的部分沒有高到40%我們看到現在台灣的台股這樣走走走甚至有的股價"},{"start":271.499,"end":298.019,"text":"主委股價已經漲到一萬多塊我的天啊這個在十年二十年三十年前完全想像不到一張股票股價一萬多塊主委你有沒有在買股票沒有你沒有買股票對我們不能買股票我啊啊你都沒有買股票怎麼樣融入其中然後掌握其中的奧妙我們這樣才客觀"},{"start":299.27,"end":326.411,"text":"這樣客觀喔那你客觀要知道裡面更多的情況因為現在大概有60%以上傳產的部分有的甚至低於20年的平均價格這是有一點就是資訊也好有一些外資來也好就變成這個市場都有一些不同的力道存在外資來他會去買傳產嗎"},{"start":329.556,"end":335.089,"text":"當然也有啊 只是比重上可能沒那麼高比例很低很低啦那我們請簡董好了"},{"start":337.958,"end":359.204,"text":"那剛剛跟委員更正一下因為剛剛有委員質詢那個當沖他資料47剛剛我們董事長已經更正了對的也差不多啦他一直在成長當沖的量一直在成長那請教一下那個檢總市長面對這樣的事外資來買本土的這些股票大概比例佔多少"},{"start":360.407,"end":369.275,"text":"假設100億來說,買全產會有多少?跟委員報告,櫃買中心外資這個交易的比重大概25%左右如果買全產的勒?"},{"start":375.652,"end":393.124,"text":"其實其實委員我可不可以說明一下其實傳產跟所謂現在我們AI或者是相關的這些產業其實我們現在並不是這樣分因為我們一直在講供應鏈供應鏈的觀念現在有很多的"},{"start":394.325,"end":420.013,"text":"我們所定義的譬如說做材料的譬如說做機械的其實他跟這一個AI的供應鏈或半導體供應鏈他們都有幫他做設計這個材料或者設計這個機械所以他們會進入他的供應鏈裡面所以其實我想解釋的是說這整個的供應鏈其實是很比較龐大的不單純去分這個是不是傳產"},{"start":422.534,"end":441.488,"text":"他如果說他做的東西是很很舊的很傳統以前的東西都沒有新的研發或發展的話那他可能就會歸類說比較沒有辦法去沾到這一個整個趨勢的這個我理解了因為你整個展開來也許他有金屬加工部分他有一些螺絲等等"},{"start":442.529,"end":466.457,"text":"那我現在是講的意思是說當大家全部重心都放在未來的一個趨勢好 譬如說我們現在講未來的趨勢那主委你告訴我們未來的趨勢是什麼對 我想說未來的趨勢其實我剛才講我是一個假設我已經王主委我是博士你是教授啦 所以不知道未來趨勢大概就是低軌衛星嘛台灣未來的發展"},{"start":467.884,"end":494.073,"text":"就是這個人型機器人嘛另外一個就是無人機嘛這個都是大家通通都知道的一般都知道的事情所以我現在的意思說我們很多的重心不斷的放在Focus在這幾個部分而忘記了很多基本的傳產比如說銀件銀件股來說有很多都是很認真很辛苦踏實在做"},{"start":494.833,"end":509,"text":"可是一般台灣給的本益比就非常低啊那我請教前董事長好了前董就半導體來說台灣給的本益比是多少"},{"start":511,"end":532.277,"text":"現在半導體 因為我們看個別公司的情況不一樣有的可能有到 譬如說50的這個ratio台灣嗎好 那大陸能給多少我們整個平均是30幾 35左右吧對 好 那PCB的部分 台灣給多少"},{"start":533.984,"end":562.743,"text":"PCB 最近有一些PCB其實本益比還不錯因為他PCB他有做ABF載板有一些都是直接是AI必須要用到有一些很高端現在他的技術層級非常高所以我覺得每一家產業或公司他的這個PE Ratio或他產生的PE他的這個是跟他的研發跟他製造的這個項目有沒有走到"},{"start":563.884,"end":572.291,"text":"我們有很多的台商因為在台灣的人見度不高獲得台灣青睞的程度不高很多跑到大陸去為什麼 主委您知道為什麼嗎"},{"start":578.427,"end":598.91,"text":"因為很多這些過去的台商朋友在台灣要借錢借不到要給予金融的支持都不要全部有幾千都跑到大陸去了沒有想應該這個情況如果是個案的話應該是就是個案一夜之秋啊我可以累積很多個案改天給主委知道一下好我們再繞回來時間關係喔"},{"start":600.424,"end":622.711,"text":"那台灣現在發展的話我很怕就是有很多失衡或者有一些基本的傳產大家看不到沒有關心台灣有的百工百業我們要照顧更多的一般中小企業這是很重要的主委對不對當然我想政府職責應該照顧每一個行業每一個國人好 再來問的一個就是說"},{"start":624.198,"end":642.674,"text":"我們現在乘以下,每天均量一兆,請問政府收的稅收多少?那個用那稅率一成,大概...政交稅?千分之一點四二五,兩邊來回千分之三一天大概二十四億,因為扣掉當沖"},{"start":645.649,"end":667.716,"text":"最後一個不好意思主席站起來最後一個題目就是台灣的證券加稅一天大概抽24億一年兩百四五十個營業日下來抽了五六千億主委會不會太重這是國家財政稅收的問題我不方便說如果跟國際接軌"},{"start":670.189,"end":691.263,"text":"證交稅 適當的往下調升到千分之一你覺得有沒有機會我們國際的稅制比台灣有它很獨特的地方因為我們沒有課證券交易所得稅嘛那有些國家有課這個他就不課交易稅這個有各種不同的歷史因素這可能沒辦法就這樣簡單的所以現在台灣的股民溫水煮青蛙"},{"start":692.003,"end":707.38,"text":"每天一兆一兆滾下去一年就是被政府抽了五六千億這個非常的不公平啊稅制的部分我們也三兆多這些股民就被收了大概六千億的稅十年就多少就六兆"},{"start":711.069,"end":731.751,"text":"所以這個應該如果持續那麼大量的話證交稅是應該要被檢討是應該要調降的不能一直針對這個股民不斷地抽他們的血抽他們的稅好不好好 謝謝所以主委也贊成請主委用書面回答"}]}},{"id":"167582","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167582","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053fc16cbe5ba9d0799f85a32efe0b6ef7a854b2f19bd25f700b8bb7224aebc51ba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"10:22:21 - 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肉丹麥的豬肉其實他們其實都沒有用萊克多巴胺可是呢我們現在對美國要用最惠國待遇的方式去因應那麼這些部分的時候我知道都不是農業部管可是在我們ART當中確實都把它給設定進來了那麼針對這個部分我想請教一下部長他這個部分"},{"start":332.485,"end":342.375,"text":"這樣子的一個開放對台灣豬農產業會不會產生什麼樣子的影響我們有沒有做具體的評估我們第一個跟委員報告就是"},{"start":343.891,"end":364.778,"text":"整個談判條件是形成一體的理解那我們在談判的過程中也了解他的衛務部這邊相關的一個規劃第一個部分就是您剛才特別提到的很多我們的裁量權就是被人follow到美國就是不對的資訊因為我們的所有的訂定的標準都是用科學的根據符合國際規範就是Codec條文上面就是這樣寫"},{"start":366.519,"end":391.86,"text":"但是它是用Codex的一個國際的規範來處理的我們之前的狀態就是覺得Codex這邊的時候標準太寬鬆嘛所以我們原本標準比較嚴格所以對於豬雜的部分我們本來是0.01ppm的部分現在變成0.09ppm所以這部分就是一個不能用9倍這樣算因為0.01是不得減出這種概念它是機器的極限不是說它一個值提高了9倍"},{"start":393.081,"end":403.628,"text":"原來是不得檢出那現在是符合國際的規範本來不得檢出現在可以檢出那更是無限大耶部長那就不是九倍的問題喔本來不得檢出的狀態變成0.09那是無限大的一個百分比不是九倍喔是無限大的倍數喔所以目前是因為整個的"},{"start":413.215,"end":433.27,"text":"我現在要問的狀態是說因為它現在在整個ART當中的時候對於這所有的部分它是變得更寬鬆的一個情況我想問農業部的部分是覺得對於這個部分會不會對台灣的養豬產業產生影響農業部有沒有具體做這樣的一個評估我跟董議員說明就是"},{"start":434.131,"end":456.331,"text":"相關的這些放寬是符合國際規範的一個標準對農業部來講我一點都不會再擔心我相信你喜歡吃台灣豬肉還是喜歡吃進口豬肉我相信你一定喜歡吃台灣豬肉因為台灣豬肉有台灣豬肉的特色那我們第二個台灣豬肉本身的自給率大概是88平均88到90去年比較低是因為有肥肉豬肉的關係變成83所以後續我們會啟動"},{"start":460.034,"end":482.323,"text":"一個完整的國產豬肉的一個形象識別變成台灣豬肉唯一選擇所以美國現在目前只佔1%部長針對這個部分你們有沒有給台灣的豬農很清楚的意識到ART這樣子的一個調整之後會對他們產生什麼樣的影響他們非常清楚因為美國的豬肉只佔我們全國的消費量的不到1%"},{"start":483.897,"end":503.522,"text":"他進口的百分之八但是全部進口量的百分之一而已所以他不會去撼動到我們國產豬肉的一個行銷因為美國豬肉進來還要跟加拿大去競爭加拿大要賺百分之四十理解 理解因為我剛剛講那幾個點確實都是很具體的一個問題所以我們希望說"},{"start":504.702,"end":526.332,"text":"在ART這個部分的時候不會對台灣的豬農產生太大的影響所以農業部必須要有更積極的一個作為那另外一個部分就是針對漁電共生2.0版那這個政策還沒有完全的落實下來我想請問一下部長針對漁電脫鉤這件事情的時候目前情況怎麼樣然後農業部的態度是怎麼樣"},{"start":527.693,"end":546.044,"text":"我想我們新的餘電共生的政策並沒有對外我們現在是在內部研議跟一些利害關係人在討論那我所提出來的我覺得一個非常重要的就是餘電共生政策不會改變所以沒有所謂的餘電脫鉤這件事情"},{"start":547.805,"end":564.174,"text":"第二個我們所提出來的漁歸於電歸電是讓他回歸到專業就是漁電共生政策之下讓漁跟電本身回到他專業的去經營理解喔 主席再給我30秒 總共大臣這部分講完"},{"start":565.555,"end":591.559,"text":"我這邊這個部分的時候想講的狀態就是說在2025年我們原本希望能夠整個光電之類的目標是20GW那目前要延後一年這延後當中的部分呢我們看到大部分的資料就是因為餘電共生這邊所產生的部分所以至於說這邊要怎麼去調整是不是叫餘電共生2.0或者餘對於餘歸於電歸電這部分要怎麼去做"},{"start":592.139,"end":618.57,"text":"我都沒有特別的意見可是我覺得要讓台灣的電夠我覺得這是很重要的一件事情然後漁民的權益也不能夠受到損害那怎麼樣子讓業者讓地方政府讓主管的單位都能夠有很清楚的依據我覺得這很重要所以我們希望針對這部分要怎麼去做請部長發揮你的智慧好不好跟其他相關的單位包括經濟部這邊也做很好的溝通我想我們因為時間的關係部長這部分的回覆可以會後再給我們政委員了解"},{"start":622.575,"end":625.331,"text":"謝謝政委員 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輔助太少那我們"},{"start":116.943,"end":141.475,"text":"同仁其實也有過來做一些說明就是我們在整個國企預算上面其實它的金額並不高所以要挪出太多可能也不容易那我們在這裡其實要特別提出來的就是說其實包括我們很多的計畫其實它都是不管是有創意也好或者是積極的一個擴大規模也好或者延續也好其實"},{"start":142.595,"end":171.821,"text":"預算看怎麼用我們今天可以不一定一定是用國慶活動上面的一些經費如果我們僑委會另外再辦理相關的這些活動然後去搭配國慶的相關的活動我覺得這是連結不一定是從那裡挪那個預算來所以當在跟我們做這樣的說明的時候我在這裡要提這個建議就是說他的經費真的不高"},{"start":172.321,"end":184.472,"text":"可是對他們來說是一個鼓勵的作用尤其是年輕人我們也希望年輕人如果願意花更多的時間在一些球類的競賽啦或者什麼這是正向的在國內我們也有很多的預算其實是在鼓勵這樣的一個運動項目那這個部分再請委員長去做一個考量那是不是可以給我們一個具體的一個答覆好不好跟委員補充一下"},{"start":199.505,"end":215.903,"text":"就是謝謝委員關注這些問題那我們這幾年補助的項目當然越來越多啦所以金額老實講能夠成長的空間就有限所以我想法基本上是跟委員一樣也是希望說能夠規劃一些看可不可以搭配的"},{"start":216.443,"end":243.456,"text":"那像我們近年來慶典活動我們就是讓我們文化展演團一年我們大概有兩個機會一個就是在春節期間的第二個就是在國慶慶典期間派出去然後藉由這個呢是整體的預算去支援我們在外館的一些重大的活動讓他們的這個支出呢不用受限於原來的這個框架這是一種模式那第二種模式也不容諱言就是我們的預算"},{"start":244.937,"end":260.572,"text":"規模機器因為低所以能夠真的空間也很有限所以近年來我每次在預算執行屢屢不夠的時候其實我大部分都是去募款當然募款的對象也有國內也有海外那我必須要說我很感謝我們海外非常多橋台商沒關係"},{"start":261.573,"end":265.777,"text":"好 就委員長其實我們相信你有努力想要做事那這個部分其實很簡單那個錢很少所以這個部分我相信你一定可以去把它雲芝出來看應該要怎麼樣去做這樣的活動的那個因為我覺得他們既然講了而且很多人講表示這是需求那這個需求如果我們照顧不到我覺得可能"},{"start":285.776,"end":291.3,"text":"就變成一種瑕疵那這個部分再請委員長去考量我們會針對青年的部分再加強補助那另外就是剛剛有提到預算的部分剛剛我們也提到因為有很多大的預算規模的其實大家可能會特別去關注那可能對國家動輒得救它可能也影響很大可是這一次很重要的我們的總預算還沒有審到現在還沒有審它很大的一個重要的原因"},{"start":315.294,"end":330.231,"text":"是因為立法院已經通過的對於軍人的照顧軍人的加薪還有警消在他們的退休的這個條例上面其實就是我們已經通過的這個部分的照顧方案其實"},{"start":331.292,"end":333.934,"text":"行政院沒有把它編列進去所以就這個部分對於整體的總預算來說因為在大家的看法其實也認為照顧軍人跟照顧警消是非常重要的因為他們站在第一線不管是我們國家的第一線或者人民在遭受損害"},{"start":350.003,"end":366.23,"text":"或者在保護人民安全的時候他們也站在第一線怎麼樣保障他們的福利也相對於我們所有政務推動他也一樣重要所以就這個部分到現在還沒有審總預算的原因就是在這裡所以當我們要積極爭取我們"},{"start":369.071,"end":382.693,"text":"所有的在野的這些委員去支持的時候我們也希望行政團隊有機會也可以跟我們的行政院去建議一下有些東西要"},{"start":383.925,"end":408.533,"text":"要知所進退要不是只有單方面的要求是這一方面我相信委員長在你的這種身段之下因為你跑遍那麼多地方我相信不管橋界不管商界不管在你國際上面也見過很多事情有些事情不是只有單一的單方面的要求所以就這個部分相對重要的情況之下不是"},{"start":409.133,"end":430.401,"text":"只有要求應該哪一方要做怎麼樣的一個妥協這個部分也是政治上大家應該要互相尊重的所以如果說沒有辦法完成有一些預算或新興計畫很重要的因素還是在行政團隊本身這個部分我要特別提出來"},{"start":431.101,"end":453.305,"text":"那另外我們想要藉這個機會請教的就是我們在僑委會的這個相關的報告裡面因為僑生我們上一次在上一個會期大概有提到就是在我們僑委會其實也大力的在配合政府投資人才的這個相關的政策那112年到115年我們擴大培育及留用僑生中長城的計畫"},{"start":458.806,"end":483.535,"text":"依產業需求調整課程那我們看到現在新的一期大概又要開始了我想請問喬爾惠對於今年喬生招生結構調整的情形今年跟去年的差異有多少因為我們上一次已經有提到在看護類跟營造類這個部分其實是需求非常大的尤其政府現在正在推動長照3.0相關的這些照護機構他也"},{"start":488.297,"end":504.056,"text":"很需要這些相關的人力那勞動部因應中階技術人力缺工的部分他也逐年擴大所以鄰近國家他在延攬或流用優秀外國技術人力的時候我們相對的也提出了"},{"start":504.637,"end":530.558,"text":"通過移工留才久用的方案那也開放僑偶會可以辦理副學士以上的僑外生可以從事中階技術工作而且沒有工作年限我們特別提到這兩項是因為既然是政府的重大政策也是我們現在面臨我們國內最缺乏的部分那又可以配合相關的政策我們在這一次有沒有做一些調整在課程的設計上面"},{"start":533.11,"end":550.138,"text":"跟委員說明有關於這個長照看護還有就是營造業那這兩個領域呢因為他在執行產學合作的這個現場事實上有他的特殊性那一般我們做三個月三個月的調配不是問題"},{"start":551.178,"end":561.821,"text":"那這兩個領域為什麼有它特殊性是因為尤其是長照看護它是一個人的工作那所以它三個月就要換一次不同的人的時候對於被照顧者是一種負擔對於照顧者也是一種負擔所以在這樣的狀況下就很多長照機構就不太容易釋出這種合作的機會這也是為什麼"},{"start":573.945,"end":598.173,"text":"學校要去成立這個班的這個機會相對比較不那麼大不那麼多那這個我們也有考量過就是說是不是改為是六六制就是說六個月讀書六個月去做這個我們有在調整當中委員長因為就這樣的考量會讓大家覺得說是不是現在之前大家在質疑的我們本來是希望大家可以來這裡學習來這裡念書可是到最後變成來打工"},{"start":601.374,"end":604.475,"text":"因為他必須要從實習當中學習技術經驗所以我們現在希望的是我們真的落實到讓他們可以真正的學習因為我們國內也有很多相關的課程就正式的我們自己國內的學生也是這樣學習他們也沒有發生這樣的狀況"},{"start":623.061,"end":629.826,"text":"今天如果說我們吸引這樣子的橋外生來的時候這些學校如果真正要培養人才希望留住這些人才而且未來為我們所用包括這些相關的人員其實我們如果開放這樣就是強化這樣子的課程我們要要求學校啊如果是有醫學院的大學他們通常比較不困難是他們有實習的"},{"start":648.041,"end":664.805,"text":"自己就有機構那如果是沒有這種醫學院的機制的那他就必須要去尋求跟外面的醫療院所或者是長照機構合作委員長因為他必須要去合作的原因是因為他已經是我們現在面臨的困境"},{"start":665.465,"end":670.389,"text":"政府也提出相關的政策我們就是需要這樣我們護理人員確實要跟進所以我們人力我們要的不是像我們現在因為我們就已經有正式的移工引進了像就是看護啊他事實上就是來工作的可是我們要培養的是人才"},{"start":683.26,"end":698.804,"text":"所以我們必須要反過來要求學校而不是學校去做這樣的選擇當他想要什麼樣的學生他才要開什麼樣的課程這是不對的因為包括很多的學校現在不是只有醫學研究就是因為我們有要求學校所以學校願意來的就變少了學長你先聽我講完"},{"start":702.285,"end":725.239,"text":"我們希望它雖然少可是你必須讓它不斷的增加因為它是一個方向今天如果說你有逐步的增加或者學校願意做這樣的配合我們給予更多的資源或者我們把學生盡量往這樣的學校去做一些媒合的動作那如果不願意的我們甚至不用給資源因為我們必須要整合我們現在所有的需求"},{"start":725.999,"end":732.241,"text":"所以如果是這樣做我相信也會比較不會落入說讓大家以為來這裡是做一個便宜打工的這樣我覺得各個面向去做一些調整對我們來說在整體的政策配合或者國家的需求或者培養人才上面可能才能真正的落實是不是僑委會可以朝這樣的方向去做這樣的要求"},{"start":748.666,"end":762.118,"text":"好 再我跟您保證一下就是說其實我對於產學合作的那個產本身我其實要求還蠻高的就是說我不要企業認為說我們這些學生是他們的這種臨時性的"},{"start":764.64,"end":784.995,"text":"老公勞力而已而是希望他們要把他們當長期人才的技術培養這個概念所以我自己也會去視察這些企業的狀況對於那種幸福企業的他們真的很重視我們的橋台生的我就會非常肯定給他鼓勵有些人真的是從橋台生的部分開始我就看得到說他們"},{"start":786.636,"end":807.178,"text":"真的想把這些孩子好好教好然後真的把他們留下來那對於這種的我一定大力鼓勵那對於只是想要一時當作替代勞工的那這個部分我們也會加以這個monitor來瞭解說他真正的學習狀況是什麼因為學生畢竟還是要教育好我先講本席相信你的決心因為我們"},{"start":807.879,"end":817.29,"text":"很多委員其實也關注類似這樣子引進來以後大家到底有沒有真正的落實到這個部分我們一直在修正我也相信我們有做很多的改進也有去做這樣的重視可是畢竟沒有辦法面面俱到而且理想跟現實之間會有很大的落差"},{"start":827.222,"end":839.296,"text":"所以為什麼會有這樣的質疑一定有這樣子的現象跟聲音出來所以我們還是因為委員長本身你還是要跑遍世界各地所以你也沒有很多的時間可以去不會我們的團隊都很認真專業"},{"start":842.199,"end":867.12,"text":"我們都相信可是他還是沒有辦法照顧到每一個部分今天我們就是有這樣子的聲音我們去面對或去改善就好沒有人去責怪說他們沒有做好或刻意去可能去放水可是我們要的是讓他更好每一筆預算他都用在對的地方我們的政策才能夠落實到我們現在所有在推動我了解馬昭偉的期許"},{"start":868.621,"end":871.912,"text":"好,那就我們朝這樣的來部分來努力,感謝"}]}},{"id":"167605","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167605","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605351a2269fd325400f75f3d6415d2a29ea4d1c9dfa77de2098856507347698b5fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"10:22:19 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有請我們林部長好 請林部長好 許育國委員發言後 我們休息十分鐘"},{"start":13.837,"end":39.543,"text":"委員早安 部長早今天就我們相關的業務有幾個問題要請教一下部長我想首先我們還是要關心這個最重要海底電纜的一個安全性的問題我想前陣子我們有主動有跟部長反映的最近就是在不管是網路上面或者一些相關的訊息上面也有發現有一些不明船隻到近我們屏東的這個海嵐區的部分"},{"start":40.223,"end":59.859,"text":"我想這個也感謝部長第一時間我們就主動的配合我們海巡也好NCC相關單位我們有去做了一個監控的處理但是我想這個東西我們也不能就是因為發生事情就有這樣的一個應變作為不能那麼倉促應該有一個完整的一個跨部會的合作機制"},{"start":60.58,"end":79.475,"text":"那尤其我們現在台灣是進入一個高度數位化的一個社會我們不管是每天用的網路也好通訊也好金融系統也好其實就是建立在一個這個海底電纜的一個很關鍵的一個基礎設施我想這個部長認同是非常認同對那尤其目前我們全球"},{"start":79.975,"end":97.772,"text":"有超過9成以上的國際資料的一個傳輸都仰賴海底電纜的一個運作那台灣目前也有15條的國際電纜10條的國內海纜所以我想這個是我們對外聯繫很重要的一個數位的一個生命線但是因為隨著這個國際的一個情勢改變"},{"start":101.676,"end":121.776,"text":"不明的一個恐攻的危機我想我們也不能去大意啦我想怎麼樣對這個海嵐的一個安全的一個防護我想這也是我們相關部會應該要必須要正式的一個課題那針對這樣的一個監控的一個預警機制我想蘇發部怎麼樣跟我們相關部會來合作請部長回答"},{"start":122.136,"end":147.001,"text":"是委員這個問題我們非常重視那對於這個海嵐維護我們分成是事前事中以及事後的這個處理首先事前就是我們第一個我們會加強監控機制那我們現在已經是應該是由中華電信那邊就是設立一個那個及時的預警接制就是看到那個有任何的那個國際海嵐發生故障的時候我們可以在第一時間我們就知道"},{"start":147.641,"end":174.287,"text":"然後再來在市中的話我們當然是說要已經發生了那我們就趕快去那個那個調派這個海纜維修船盡快把這個海纜把它修好那我們現在用的方式因為海纜這個哪時候斷掉不一定那我們是加入了所謂的船團就是有幾個國家的這個電信公司在合在一起加入一些等於說共同的組織然後這個船團裡面有好幾艘的這個海纜維修船那"},{"start":175.087,"end":196.895,"text":"發生到遇到這種海浪斷掉的時候我們就趕快協調這些船團就派船去修理那我們這邊任信司這邊也做了一些機制就是說你如果修得越快的話他可以拿到的錢越多就是我們以前我們都是搶時間對搶時間他時間越修得越快我們給他的錢越多這個地方是不是請任信司司長補充說明一下"},{"start":197.797,"end":222.694,"text":"謝謝委員跟我們這個機會來跟各位來報告基本上我們事前事中事後大概部長也都談了那事前部分其實我們現在也做了一些的預估的應變措施我們以平衡為例在委員的爭取下像琉球的部分我們就加了微波除了海南以外還有微波所以其實這就是一個應變的也謝謝委員的支持像琉球我們就加了這個所以在"},{"start":223.314,"end":251.737,"text":"事前防護中除了全場監控以外還增加它的這個所謂的替代的能量這都要在事前做那當然權益輪的控管我們也在加強那跨部會的合作也在加強所以立刻的海運署就能夠知道這些訊息那市中運署部分我們大概現在就除了能夠立刻的復原加速維修以外那當然更重要的要把這些這些違法分子深自依法所以我們已經移送了四個其中兩例也有正式的判決"},{"start":252.498,"end":280.729,"text":"那事後經濟我們現在蘇發部也針對所有的海嵐的狀況去做統計分析跟他可能的預估的危害然後做事前的預估的防範那大概我們以這個方式來做那當然還有一個很重要我們跟跨國的合作因為其實國際合作海嵐船其實在維修部分需要海嵐船國際合作那其他的比如說像這些全英輪也必須要有國際合作來一起來共同防範 以上報告"},{"start":282.189,"end":306.8,"text":"我想這個權益的問題我們必須要正視啦尤其這些用假的外籍的名義其實在做什麼不法的勾當我想這我也有跟航空局講過了我們一定要嚴密來監控尤其這個部分謝謝委員那我再請教一下那如果萬一啦這個海濫發生斷裂那我們剛剛有講我們有一個很緊急的應變機制嘛那平均目前的修復時間大概會有多久的時間是"},{"start":309.151,"end":328.8,"text":"包委員確實我們現在國際海港平均修復時間是32天那國內海港的話平均修復是110天這樣會不會對我們整個台灣的這個通訊啊這些運作造成很大的影響時間蠻長的勒是那包委員因為我們國際海港有15條事實上各登陸點其實都不只一條海港在提供服務"},{"start":329.46,"end":358.199,"text":"那第二個就是國內的海岸其實大概都平均兩到三條不備援所以雖然可能有一間斷的話其他有海岸備援以外那我們再加強微波就好像琉球一樣我們在爭取琉球我們現在今年也會增加兩條的微波到琉球去所以就用這種各種不斷的替代措施當然還有衛星的各離島也有配備部分的衛星所以其實從海岸的好幾條去做備援以外那還就微波"},{"start":359.5,"end":375.725,"text":"就藉由微波備援那更進一步用衛星來備援一層一層來迭代謝謝對我想這個必須要加快來辦理我們不能只有仰賴海底電來一定要有其他的配套措施是好謝謝那部長我想目前我們台灣的這個整個這個AI"},{"start":376.505,"end":400.037,"text":"我想這個也如火如荼在進行當中那我想這也是一個全球的趨勢那臺灣來講當然我們在半導體製程上面具有這個世界級的一個實力我們有護國神山台積電但是在AI的軟體應用跟資料的治理方面我想我們還有很多努力的空間那針對這個部分我想我還是要提醒部長啦科技競賽不是只有方向對"},{"start":401.979,"end":413.233,"text":"速度也很重要當然那針對這樣的一個政策的一個速度我想部長有沒有什麼樣的一個做法因為我們知道這個速度很重要所以也就是這個原因我們認為說這種軟體產業的創新突破與發展必須是來自於民間"},{"start":419.48,"end":443.128,"text":"自由的競爭公平而自由的競爭這個事情不能一切都要等政府來做事實上我們看全世界就是說包含美國中國即使中國那種社會主義國家他們在那個軟體方面都是交由民間去發展因為只有民間才有這個活力才有這個靈活度才有這個速度可以盡快的在AI產業裡面發展所以我們現在速發布的最重要職責就是創造一個適合"},{"start":444.949,"end":454.872,"text":"AI產業發展的生態系所以我們有五大政策工具分別是算力資料人才行銷以及資金那我們就希望說讓很多的這個AI新創家會選擇在台灣創業"},{"start":460.314,"end":486.377,"text":"然後他們在創業的過程中也能很順利然後他們也那個就減低他們的風險因為創業一般很高興說我自己就創業過嘛而且想像說我一天要當一個那個賺大錢但是另外一方面我想說萬一失敗了我不要那個破產等等所以譬如說我們現在提供算力就是目的就是這樣就是提供免費的算力讓民間的創業家去做實驗做實驗成功了那我們跟他拍拍手"},{"start":487.117,"end":501.469,"text":"他一定會找到更好的資金如果他失敗了那也不會因為這樣他把因為把房子抵押掉讓他的人生就發生一個很大的問題部長我想我還是要再提一個事情因為我"},{"start":502.13,"end":518.491,"text":"我的選區是在屏東縣是我們是農漁業的大縣是那我想這個AI不是只有運用在科技方面未來怎麼樣幫忙我們的這些尤其我們現在很多年輕的青農也好年輕的漁民也好他們越投入到故鄉"},{"start":519.632,"end":544.926,"text":"來從事農業跟漁業的一個行業那怎麼樣藉由這個AI的一個導入能夠讓他們在不管是這個產量方面的預測變蟲害管理甚至是漁場的監控整個一個風險的管理上面我們這部分有沒有這樣的一個結合我們農業部相關部會有沒有這樣一個輔導的一個機制甚至怎麼樣讓他們能夠精進一個這個科技方面的一個作為有沒有這樣一個配套"},{"start":545.166,"end":574.286,"text":"是我們在抒發部一直有關於對於這個農漁業有各種的那個各種的計畫各種的補助那我們就希望說有更多的那個民間的企業民間的那個發明家創業家他能投入這個產業那這些應用會有非常多那我們希望說這些公司在幫我們政府幫我們那個不管是中央政府地方政府解決這些問題的時候他本身也能創業"},{"start":575.686,"end":588.05,"text":"能賺到錢而且我希望說在台灣成功以後這些做出來的這些AI的工具還能外銷到國外去我想我們可以來屏東建立一個成功的model模式來做推廣啦好不好好謝謝好謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167604","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167604","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053e97e364f4596120d75f3d6415d2a29ea4d1c9dfa77de2098856507347698b5fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳素月","委員發言時間":"10:10:55 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請主席邀請林部長好 我們請蘇發部林部長委員長早安部長早我們知道現在科技的進步那這個訊息也是非常的就是變化非常快所以對於我們國人的日常其實使用"},{"start":30.626,"end":58.235,"text":"這個網路去查詢他想了解的事情這是非常稀鬆平常的事情我想應該在座每個人都會有這種習慣想要了解一個人或者一件事情就會用關鍵字去搜尋可是我們現在就是會發現說我們如果用Google去用關鍵字搜尋的時候它跳出來的相關的一個資訊它就是會跳出一個AI的一個摘要這樣的狀況到底是帶來方便還是困擾"},{"start":59.375,"end":76.237,"text":"我想在這邊跟部長分享幾個案例最近服務處就是接到一個民眾的陳情他來服務處陳情就是說要我們協助他跟這個勞保局申請就是這個代償就是向勞保局申請代償"},{"start":76.978,"end":88.981,"text":"那他提供的資料就是說目前這個代償的期限可以放寬到五年內那可以追溯試用這樣子他拿這個資訊來可是我們跟他了解之後發現說事實上這個是在2024年的時候這個勞保局確實有希望針對這個部分來做一個修訂然後並做預告可是還沒預告"},{"start":102.865,"end":125.39,"text":"就已經引起很多不同的意見所以這個部分他就暫緩事實上連預告都沒有那這個民眾他可能之前就是有遇到這種狀況所以他現在他希望能夠申請這個勞保局的一個代償他自己去搜尋之後得到訊息是可以就是在五年內都可以所以他就來要求我們協助提出"},{"start":126.19,"end":150.294,"text":"申請代償我們剛剛說這個是AI的資訊是不正確的可是他還是跟我們爭辯他是確信不疑說這明明他查詢的資料就是這樣所以我覺得說這樣子的狀況會造成民眾就是他接到了錯誤的訊息然後也會對我們政府可能會產生一種誤解或者是不信任"},{"start":151.034,"end":167.133,"text":"這是一個狀況那另外一個案例是這是網友分享的就是說有網友他查詢說他在日本他想知道說在橫濱有幾家這個Unicoro的店他要怎麼去"},{"start":167.954,"end":195.596,"text":"結果他就用Google去搜尋跳出來的給他的建議是要他先去桃園火車站搭乘高鐵到東京然後搭乘這個JR山手線到品川站這個真的是錯的非常的離譜所以就是說針對這個深層式AI的這樣子的高錯誤率許多民眾他往往就是不經查證或者是不知道查證然後"},{"start":196.897,"end":211.486,"text":"或者是他查證了沒有辦法去分辨這個真假的一個狀況所以導致民眾接收到這樣子一個錯誤的訊息甚至還深信不疑這種狀況我們處法部這邊有沒有什麼因應的想法"},{"start":211.894,"end":229.887,"text":"是 跟委員說明一下首先這個問題事實上是一直都存在但是有一些改善我們知道在六個月或者是一年以前的話我們用AI去像Challenge PD去查一些問題那常常都是錯誤大概超過一半那我們就講說它是幻覺Hallucination"},{"start":230.788,"end":253.008,"text":"那現在他已經很大的改善但是這個改善以後其實又帶來另外一個新的困擾就是以前我們很容易就跟民眾解釋說你不要相信這個AI產生的資訊因為大部分是錯的民眾也都能接受但是現在麻煩就是在於說他現在大概是九成甚至於九成五是對的那百分之五到百分之十是錯的所以我們要提醒民眾就像剛剛我們看到那個"},{"start":253.829,"end":279.843,"text":"委員的那張投影片上面老保局的那個AI summary那個下面有一個連結那個要請民眾就是說你重要的事情要點那個連結事實上委員秀的顯示出來兩個Google的那個搜尋的結果上面都有一個那個鏈條的那個icon一個小的圖示只要民眾點那個連結的話你就可以看到原來真實的網站的資訊所以這個要切實提醒民眾"},{"start":280.903,"end":297.95,"text":"是 那就是說針對這種Google它將AI摘要放在搜尋結果的最上方是這樣子就是會讓民眾誤解誤信說這個就是一個正確的資訊所以這樣子的一個顯示我覺得是不是有可能說讓它移除或者是關閉"},{"start":300.558,"end":318.905,"text":"事實上目前的狀況以我了解好像是使用者可以選擇他不使用這個AI的那個summary那個是不是請林署長說明一下那現在的AI有剛剛委員講的搜尋之後AI再要在前面嘛後面就是以前傳統的搜尋結果"},{"start":319.685,"end":335.788,"text":"另外一個你也可以直接選擇AI模式所以它目前是消費者是可以選擇單獨的AI模式也可以參考AI摘要或者不參考AI摘要直接往下到傳統的搜尋結果那AI摘要都會註明出處所以目前的狀況是這樣"},{"start":337.765,"end":351.62,"text":"當然這就是我們比較理想性的一個想法可是很多民眾他還是會搞不清楚他就是會誤信說這個就是一個正確的資訊我想這就是說民眾在搜尋網路的相關訊息的時候可能會有這種狀況"},{"start":355.805,"end":374.604,"text":"在運用AI的部分那另外就是說如果民眾他在使用就是AI直接就是使用AI的就是包括機器人這一類的設備的時候可能會有另外一個更危險的一個狀況就是在美國就是發生說"},{"start":377.326,"end":400.342,"text":"就是民眾跟AI機器人在聊天聊到最後是被引導去自殺的所以這個是更嚴重的一種狀況所以包括我剛剛講的AI災藥這個部分其實涉及到的都是民眾的嗜毒的一個能力所以這個部分我們速發部有在做做的狀況程度如何"},{"start":405.491,"end":424.583,"text":"這些事情我們當然是會盡量利用各種機會包含各種記者會或者是出一些報告那我們都會提醒民眾要注意這個事情那我們當然我們有很大的挑戰就是實在是AI的進展速度太快了我們如果說立法的話我們通常立法可能要一年的時間但是一年之內AI它的那個改變就已經"},{"start":425.504,"end":452.942,"text":"就是非常非常的巨大所以我們想辦法盡量利用這種除了立法以外我們就是利用這種跟民眾宣導我們找各種機會去宣導我們也會跟美國的這些AI大廠像Google像Microsoft等等因為他們在台灣他們都有公司我們會持續跟他們溝通就是要求他們做好對民眾保護的工作"},{"start":455.444,"end":476.638,"text":"第二要補充一下就是我們一年會辦實機場在全國各地去辦理那主要有三個部分第一個是委員關係的AI可能會帶來的風險跟民眾交易第二個是治安可能會帶來的風險那第三個是詐騙可能帶來的風險所以我們一年會在全國各地辦實機場"},{"start":479.398,"end":506.076,"text":"都是會結合大型的這個譬如說台灣燈會啊我們校園的真材博覽會這些去做這樣的廣宣甚至直接到小學我覺得這樣聽起來好像效果有限其實之前我在委員會就是相關的議題的時候我是有建議說我們應該是要結合學校的教育就是結合教育部去做這方面的一個試讀能力的判讀才對吧"},{"start":507.698,"end":530.503,"text":"是沒有問題謝謝委員提醒我們往這方面努力跟教育部合作加強在校園內的宣導OK好那我再最後一個問題就是說我們知道像AI的運用是非常的方便可是我們發現就是說有關這個大型AI就是缺乏我們台灣本土的語料庫因為大部分使用的是英文或者是簡體中文"},{"start":532.423,"end":548.819,"text":"那之前我應該在上個會期之前也曾經提過這個問題那我們也很高興看到就是說我們目前速發部有一個語調庫上線到今天應該差不多三個月那目前的規模大概怎麼樣"},{"start":549.762,"end":569.925,"text":"現在我們已經在這個台灣主權AI訓練語料庫我們已經蒐集了超過11億個token就相當於11億個中文字那這個只是花了兩個多月的時間我們就蒐集到這麼多那我們會持續的去擴大這個規模那我們現在大部分人這些我們現在這些資料都是來自於政府機構因為政府機構"},{"start":571.266,"end":598.366,"text":"擁有著作權的話這個事情最容易處理那接下來我們會想辦法把這個餘料庫擴大那也會去徵集民間就是民間的那個作者包含我自己也是作者我就會把我的著作權就是捐出來放在這個餘料庫那所謂捐出來不是說我放棄著作權而是我會簽一個授權條款就是將來如果有人拿我的這個著作去訓練AI模型的話我不會去告他基本上概念就是這樣子"},{"start":598.866,"end":608.294,"text":"那這個不是常識性的如果說有人不願意捐出來有人希望就是說用收費的這個我們也會努力幫他們就是去就是解決這些問題"},{"start":611.438,"end":631.825,"text":"我們知道AI的運用其實對民眾來說是非常的生活化我們現在有發現一個問題就是說如果民眾在打119的時候他用台語來說他的需求的時候現在幾乎都是用語音判別AI語音判別所以這種狀況的話他可能沒有辦法去判別"},{"start":633.046,"end":656.28,"text":"所以我們未來的語調庫有沒有辦法擴充到台語或者是客語的這個部分我們是不是請資料司司長跟委員報告就是說在這個語調庫裡面教育部的台語文的資料他們現在已經積極的在籌劃當中那也有一些央明教導老師就台語的這個部分來做AI的模型那等到實習成熟的時候我們會對外來發布"},{"start":657.461,"end":667.702,"text":"那大概還要多久時間我再猜應該是上半年就可以完成了就是今年上半年對對對是OK好謝謝好那謝謝謝謝部長還有司長"}]}},{"id":"17282","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17282","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d8c1e201b3fb6835ada8636340bb32aa8157d0edf07c12ea62b521311cf667d8d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-03-18","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-03-18T08:31:10+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-18T12:01:00+08:00","duration":12590,"影片長度":"03:29:50","委員發言時間":"08:31:10 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谷主任"},{"start":1987.318,"end":2010.685,"text":"主計是柯淑琳柯主任資訊是白忠光白主任政風是楊尊仁楊主任法規會徐佑林徐專門委員潮物通訊社羅蓉羅總編輯財團法人海外信用保證基金侯立揚侯董事長"},{"start":2013.238,"end":2017.341,"text":"財團法人海華文教基金會廖雲軒廖執行長本日會議邀請球委員會委員長徐家青報告業務概況並被質詢現在請徐委員長上台報告"},{"start":2038.226,"end":2055.763,"text":"召委各位委員大家早安大院第十一屆第五會期開議本人非常榮幸能夠列席報告今天將以僑務工作的推動現況以及持續的施政工作重點來跟大家進行報告敬請不吝指教"},{"start":2057.441,"end":2078.81,"text":"過去一年本會在長期工作的基礎上持續的結合橋霧政策與國家的戰略同時因應國際變局在各領域以創新積極的施政來服務全球的僑民同時也整合了僑界的力量持續的壯大台灣那麼以下我們將做幾個面向來跟大家進行報告"},{"start":2079.87,"end":2098.199,"text":"首先在過去半年的會席當中我們的僑務推動在國際運動賽事聚焦在台灣日的活動成功的帶領了在美國的職棒大聯盟MLB以及美國職籃等賽事舉辦了21場台灣日的活動現場的觀眾累計將近60萬人同時將具備台灣特色的各種元素帶入全球的視野"},{"start":2108.684,"end":2127.999,"text":"例如在美國洛杉磯的Angel隊台灣日就結合了布袋戲、台灣美食、啦啦隊等表演在西雅圖的水手隊台灣日本人也專程前往參加盛會當地用法斯卡的學生與Showgirl的表演同時也請三太子出場擔任捕手"},{"start":2129.113,"end":2156.65,"text":"其次我們在經過了20年努力終於在去年紐約Yankee隊創下第122年來首次給台灣有一個台灣Heritage Day的活動推出秀有台灣國旗幸運背號8號的特製球帽球衣這樣子的一個活動在很多的僑建青年參與之下以及在地僑團的資源挹注充分的展現了僑建與政府攜手推動公眾外交的一個成效"},{"start":2158.527,"end":2171.923,"text":"那同時在今年年初農曆年前也順利的在華府舉辦了直燃的MBA,威澤隊當場也有非常多大地的民眾與我們的年輕僑民都進場觀賞。"},{"start":2176.124,"end":2193.206,"text":"其次,針對過去這半年來,我們僑委會積極配合教育部以及全美中文學校聯合總會的活動,參加全美外語教學協會的年會活動,簡稱ECFOR,推廣正體制的華語文教育。"},{"start":2195.782,"end":2212.33,"text":"教育部的推廣Mandarin in Taiwan這樣子的一個攤位前我們以推廣來學華語以及全新改版的全球華文網等各項資源以及功能在現場進行各種的教材試讀網站試用體驗並且舉辦小活動贈送特色的小禮物來推廣當地的參觀"},{"start":2219.674,"end":2240.845,"text":"包括各級學校的教師、研究人員以及觀眾了解本會的華語文教學的資源同時也安排了四場的文化推廣活動充分的展現了台灣在種植教師的教學包含很多書法、則子等等文化的活動擴大了這個現場的行銷的效益"},{"start":2244.485,"end":2252.561,"text":"其次在去年到今年我們在美食國際推廣上面首次將觸角延伸到印度大陸"},{"start":2254.349,"end":2271.856,"text":"美食巡迴展是從2010年開始舉辦那麼這幾年以來呢將近十多年來道地的台灣味濃厚的人情味為主題在去年攜手了十位的廚藝好手巡迴18個國家47個地區總共舉辦了109場的活動那麼去年剛好"},{"start":2277.518,"end":2287.406,"text":"台灣與印度代表處互設30週年活動本會也派出我們的兩位廚師到現場去新德里跟New Delhi跟青奈特別為我們的這個活動來進行相關的台菜的展現那麼巡迴期間呢也結合我們各地的主流活動比方剛剛講過的MLB在洛杉磯的Angel隊裡面他們也"},{"start":2302.498,"end":2328.814,"text":"有兩位廚師在現場做了各種台灣小吃在現場呈現給當地的主流社會了解那麼各種的傳統週活動或者是像夜市活動在舊金山在洛杉磯在Houston各地在華府都有舉辦珍珠奶茶節等等的時候我們也都結合了我們的美食巡迴展的這個廚師去當地那不只是在美國"},{"start":2329.774,"end":2347.197,"text":"在加拿大在其他各國也都同樣有著這樣子的一種展現那麼從去年開始呢我們也加強與在當地的這些電視節目餐飲學校海內外的網紅多元的合作協助推廣行銷提升台灣的能見度"},{"start":2349.045,"end":2362.054,"text":"其次,針對人才培育的部分過去幾年,本會在推動僑生的各項工作裡面其中以加強僑生在入學前能夠強化華語文的學習為我們的核心也在他就學之後,持續地讓他深化對華語的能力"},{"start":2373.483,"end":2389.802,"text":"針對去年開始我們強化了海外青年語文研習班那麼11個梯次總共有1090位的學員在線上以及實體上課那麼這個是屬於海外的青年研習班那麼其次我們在台灣舉辦的華語研習營裡面"},{"start":2393.226,"end":2401.273,"text":"包括菲律賓印度印尼及越南三個地方的所有橋校還有組團27個班次1149個學員來參與的這個研習營的課程除此之外我們與國內的19家技高端的學校以及東南亞的6個這個相關的華語文橋校"},{"start":2414.964,"end":2438.272,"text":"成為這個夥伴學校充分提供台灣在即時教育以及華語文課程上面的這個結合的教導那麼近年來尤其在去年開始我們也更加的加強了這個數位學習的這個資源將我們來學華語華語向前走這些教材呢有本會製編的教材多語版"},{"start":2438.912,"end":2455.432,"text":"現在都全數的變成是一個數位化的在全球華文網全球可以下載的模式那這個可以高度的提供了全球各地不同的使用的使用者他們可以快速的取得他們自己要的各種教材那麼其中我們在"},{"start":2459.597,"end":2484.429,"text":"来学华语已经有进行10个语版这样子的一个双语的教材那这个双语教材呢从到去年为止所累积的使用人数可以说年年在增高当中那么今年呢我们也会全数将这些语版的教材呢数位化所有的学员跟教师就可以未来借用我们的这个华文网的教材"},{"start":2484.949,"end":2501.489,"text":"他們可以進行個人的練習教師也可以從我們的華文網取得各項的教材上面的高度運用減輕教師各種的備課負擔那麼在全球華文網的部分呢從去年到今年我們有一個很清楚的比較"},{"start":2503.381,"end":2528.941,"text":"經過幾年的優化從疫情期間一路到今天早期我們所設立的時候從少少的幾萬瀏覽率到去年我們已經提高到24萬8千每個月的瀏覽率那麼在應該說是去年開始下半年甚至一度現在全部平均提高到34萬8千人也就是說這短短一年當中我們的這個全球華文網的瀏覽率"},{"start":2530.882,"end":2534.343,"text":"已經從20幾萬的規模上到30幾萬的規模足足多了10萬人那麼就算是今年115年的1月2月在農曆年節期間都仍然維持30幾萬這樣子每個月的瀏覽率這代表著華文網的使用範圍是越來越廣"},{"start":2552.83,"end":2571.096,"text":"其次我們在有限的華文媒體方面為了鼓勵全球各地的華文媒體仍然能夠在今日全球趨勢變化當中數位化的過程仍然讓所有的華文媒體有一個空間來發展因此我們從2020年起"},{"start":2573.457,"end":2578.94,"text":"舉辦的這個華文媒體報導大獎至今呢第五屆去年有240件作品參加那麼也因應媒體生態的變化以及這個年輕世代接收資訊的這個轉變那麼在第五屆開始呢去年我們就多增加了短影音的這個獎項也吸引了更多新生代的新聞工作者來參與我們這些相關的新聞傳播的力量"},{"start":2599.827,"end":2623.377,"text":"接下來跟各位委員說明在我們持續性的施政政策的工作重點上以下要分為六個面向跟大家說明首先是我們在強化僑社的韌性網絡提升僑區災防以及應變的能力從去年年初開始本會就將本會所有的公務人員從檢任級以上"},{"start":2623.857,"end":2642.874,"text":"到科長級以上分階的訓練乃至於到我們去年的10月針對全球180位的僑務委員返國參加我們的僑務委員會議期間我們都規劃了一系列的全社會防衛任性的課程以及演練的活動非常受到僑務委員的肯定"},{"start":2644.295,"end":2651.119,"text":"在那之後十月開始他們回到各個僑區也都陸續的在自己各自僑區推動這相關的演練這也使得我們很多僑社大家對於如何災防如何做緊急應變措施的學習提高了各項的興趣以及準備了一些思考措施今年我們會在持續這個基礎上持續的強化"},{"start":2668.189,"end":2674.075,"text":"今年會有兩項主要的活動設計第一個就是我們與僑團的合作分別會有跟全美全世界台灣同鄉會藉由他們的年會高度的聚眾的過程當中我們也安排了全棟署的兩位教官"},{"start":2686.607,"end":2689.649,"text":"出國去我們補助他們旅費然後也將相關的課程經過討論後帶出去請他們在他們的營隊活動期間開一個整個完整的section讓我們去跟他們進行討論跟訓練那麼我們也將全球所有100多個"},{"start":2703.358,"end":2716.795,"text":"緊急這個叫做急難救助協會全部集中回到台灣加強這一方面的全社會任性的防災演練的工作那這是我們跟僑團合作的部分那其次我們今年一樣會在上去年僑委員會議的基礎上"},{"start":2720.7,"end":2747.672,"text":"今年会规划进阶版的侨务委员会议让更多的侨务委员能够充分的掌握在国际趋势瞬息万变的过程当中如何面对各种天灾各种挑战变化能够积极的回应以便减少生命财产各项的损失帮助整个社会可以正常的运作所以此项工作呢本年度仍然是我们重点工作之一"},{"start":2748.773,"end":2751.521,"text":"第二個面向是今年度我們也配合"},{"start":2752.577,"end":2773.041,"text":"在全球設立華語文學習中心的過程其中最久的就是在美國所設立的台灣華語文學習中心我們計劃在今年呢進一步跟當地的政府持續的深化合作那其中我們在海外美國具有最多的喬教中心我們計劃將一半的喬教中心做功能性的提升以及軟硬體的這個計劃優化"},{"start":2780.783,"end":2793.498,"text":"那麼設置設計有台灣角落計畫那麼是以文化部的百大文化基地的這個概念是以這個概念來做海外的文化推廣活動那麼逐年的會從今年到119年2030年為止呢會在我們"},{"start":2799.164,"end":2825.899,"text":"美國的六個喬教中心來進行軟硬體的優化以及提升那麼同時我們也會融入當地的特色以及台灣的各項宗教文化多元因素藉此能夠整合提升我們的華語文學習中心的各項資源同時也作為在海外推廣更多的公眾外交以及台灣文化拧聚台灣民眾社群意識的一種軟性的活動"},{"start":2829.414,"end":2848.146,"text":"第三個大項是在剛剛提到的華語文學習中心的這個設立上去年我們僅僅只有在歐美總共13個國家歐洲12個美國13個國家的基礎上設立了88所華語文學習中心但今年開始我們從1月就陸續包括有"},{"start":2850.748,"end":2867.766,"text":"日本、加拿大、澳洲、紐西蘭總共又多增加了四個國家共申請了十所台灣華語文學習中心也都受到當地的政府高度的重視以及在地的各種主流社會高度的參與那從1月至今我已經連續跑了四個國家統統舉行了所有這十個"},{"start":2871.97,"end":2896.07,"text":"華語文中心的揭幕活動可以說相當的順利那同時也有非常多當地的國會議員對於我們這樣的一種合作的模式表達更高度的肯定那我們也期許到今年結束前我們可以突破百所的華語文學習中心的設立那希望透過這些華語文中心的設立讓華語市場不單只有在這個"},{"start":2899.232,"end":2910.24,"text":"海峽兩岸華人的圈圈裡面我們希望未來的華語市場是向全球來佈局這也是我們在成立華語文學習中心多年來最重要的這個"},{"start":2912.756,"end":2936.327,"text":"那也期許未來在華語市場當中我們台灣的華語文教育可以成為一種品牌那麼以TCML台灣華語學術中心作為一種基地來進行推廣那配合著這個TCML的設立呢我們也同樣繼續舉辦包括有口說爭霸賽歌唱比賽以提升學生們的學習興趣以及透過競賽當中來加以練習華語的能力"},{"start":2941.052,"end":2945.873,"text":"第四點是針對全球的這個經貿變局如何協助我們的海外台商更穩健的佈局於全球那麼今年我們也持續會強化各項的這個包括海外信保基金的協服活動那除此之外呢從去年到今年我們又陸續成立了幾個台商協會那麼包括有澳洲的阿德雷德我也日前剛剛去參加他們的年會活動"},{"start":2969.179,"end":2982.567,"text":"那麼去年五月我也到了丹麥參加了丹麥首次成立的這個台灣商會包括美國Tennessee加州California等地都有新的台商協會的組織陸續在成立"},{"start":2985.49,"end":2991.477,"text":"這代表我們的各地的僑民在自己的事業經營之餘也願意投入用組織性的活動來增強各項的服務並且產生這個連結的橋樑讓我們透過那個平台可以提供更多的一個服務除此之外我們持續的推廣"},{"start":3004.231,"end":3020.061,"text":"台灣的一些重要的產業推展的領域包含有智慧科技、食品智慧轉型、品牌管理、淨零等相關的產業研習活動也邀訪我們在國內的學者專家到全球進行經貿的專題巡迴講座同時也鼓勵國內與海外的各項產學研的單位能夠簽署各種的合作備忘錄"},{"start":3032.748,"end":3059.182,"text":"提升海外的台商能夠企業的轉型在海外信保基金方面去年由於美國對等關稅本會也同步協助我們受到關稅影響的台商那麼在去年我們將海外的信保基金額度上限從200萬美金提升到300萬美金那也對某些地區國家因為水災因為風災而造成的災損"},{"start":3062.163,"end":3090.902,"text":"特別有專案的一些保證所以除了美國對冷關稅的專案貸款保證還有去年在泰國南部的2025水災在越南的2025水災都提供了一些專案的貸款計劃這個專案貸款計劃就是我們會補助手續費跟利息以協助這些台商在緊急危難當中有一筆周轉的資金幫助他們度過這個最艱困的時期那麼提升產業的韌性"},{"start":3092.524,"end":3116.66,"text":"第五點同時持續在推動僑生的權益保障提升我們僑系專班的辦學的品質除了持續擴大規模之外為了使僑生能夠更加融入以及適應我們從去年下半年開始規劃全方位的支持系統包括就學前以及就學中的華文輔導"},{"start":3118.382,"end":3125.348,"text":"的工作那麼除此之外我們也定期與不定期的配合教育主管單位進行實地的考察訪視那麼去年我們首度舉辦全球的喬森杯運動會總共有27所"},{"start":3134.817,"end":3136.758,"text":"大專院校500多人報名參加喬森的反應非常熱烈因此今年我們決定要擴大舉辦去年是一個試辦階段我們只有辦一場在中部跟體育大學來合作那麼今年我們計畫能夠"},{"start":3152.026,"end":3172.818,"text":"做北部跟南部各一場讓更多的學生能夠擴大的來參與那除此之外我們在僑生就業博覽會上面幫所有的僑外生收集國內的各種企業的資訊在這個平台上希望能夠提供學生有更多直來銜接的"},{"start":3174.44,"end":3178.689,"text":"資訊跟機會那麼今年呢不例外的我們在僑生就業博覽會即將實體的在北中南都陸續要開展這個僑生博覽會"},{"start":3185.919,"end":3210.385,"text":"同時也會辦理八場僑生就業的巡迴說明會四場的企業聘用僑生就業說明會同時邀請勞動部內政部移民署國發會Talent Taiwan的服務中心同時向僑生以及各個企業說明如何留台以及如何聘用僑生的相關規定鼓勵企業進行延攬優秀的人才"},{"start":3212.11,"end":3225.249,"text":"最後一點就海內外的新世代紮根方面鼓勵年輕人站上國際的舞台那就從2011年開始本會開始持續的辦理FASCA至今將近15年"},{"start":3227.512,"end":3232.014,"text":"培養了近萬位的青年世代是14歲到17歲也就是在高中生階段的這一些FASCA的年輕人這絕大多數都是二代或三代的海外移民那麼他們雖然出生在"},{"start":3242.398,"end":3245.06,"text":"但是由於參加了這個海外青年文化大使的培育計畫從而能夠更加的認識了我們的傳統文化對自己的移民的認同以及自信的提升都有著高度的幫助今年近年來我們又更增加一些提供這些孩子在未來職業探索"},{"start":3264.292,"end":3278.878,"text":"以及各種職業model的學習方面各種講座提升他們在未來的發展趨勢上有更多的一種思考跟想像那麼除此之外呢我們也辦理海外青年英語服務營那麼從"},{"start":3280.239,"end":3283.92,"text":"到今年為止已經培育超過7000個這個海外青年志工那這些志工來自的國家從過去只有鎖定部分的英語系國家我們從三年前開始已經全面開放只要是他的華語跟他的英語程度主要是英語程度能夠達到C1級以上的到這個Native就是這個魔語程度的"},{"start":3307.308,"end":3334.951,"text":"這樣一種英語的學習環境的學生然後又有初階的華語能力者就可以報名參加我們的英語研習營那這個研習營可以說是相當受到歡迎所以每一年報名的額數都遠遠超過國內的這個需求數所以因此我們的設限門檻也必須有一個嚴格的篩選過程這項也是在海外受到非常多移民家庭的一個歡迎"},{"start":3336.38,"end":3344.529,"text":"那近年來已經不單單是移民家庭也有不少local在地的年輕人有鑑於他們已經也學習了華語我們也給予他們機會來到台灣服務所以現在我們的英語服務營計劃呢事實上已經是一個跨國際跨族群的跨文化的一種營隊活動也促進了這些"},{"start":3357.504,"end":3361.127,"text":"年輕世代可以結交更多的國際友誼的機會同時也協助國內的學童在英語能力的提升方面有所進展讓他們有更多練習的機會也培養一些國際的視野"},{"start":3373.297,"end":3380.401,"text":"除此之外我們對於海內外的青年同時也配合教育部的相關計畫我們分別有兩項第一項是本會主辦的海外搭橋計畫那麼今年呢規劃總共有七個不同的國家地區總共有84名的名額會有提供給"},{"start":3393.869,"end":3418.875,"text":"青年來到海外進行包括僑務、外交、文化等各項的學習那這個都是屬於一個禮拜到十天之內的短期團隊型的一種學習的活動那麼去年開始推動的圓夢計畫呢比較是教育部主導的那麼本會呢是在幫忙協助提供一些相關的實習機會那麼圓夢計畫基本上的內涵呢都是"},{"start":3423.556,"end":3442.64,"text":"中期到短期最少要兩個禮拜多則半年那比較是個人性質的在職涯探索或者是專業培訓提升的這種方案上面所以這個是不一樣的兩種取向的活動但基本上都是培養國內的年輕人能夠去海外"},{"start":3446.181,"end":3470.889,"text":"接觸各種不一樣的專業組織或者是政府或者是團體提升大家的國際能見度的視野同時也讓他們在專業能力上有所提升那麼基本上在海外搭橋計畫的學生呢必然都是還在就學的學生但圓夢計畫的學生就不設限一定是還在就學的學生所以他有幾個區域有幾個在投資"},{"start":3475.931,"end":3489.433,"text":"計劃方案書上面的差異性那麼海外搭橋計劃百分之百是橋委會自行規劃完善照顧的一個行程那圓夢計劃是有各種各樣彈性的一種方案"},{"start":3490.891,"end":3499.698,"text":"其次還有在我們今年的交流論壇上面從去年到今年我們都陸續的讓第二代第三代的年輕朋友專業精英人士有機會持續的產生全球性跟台灣的連結那麼舉辦的效果越來越好也讓很多的這個第二代第三代的年輕人透過我們這個平台可以結交到各國的朋友"},{"start":3517.032,"end":3535.237,"text":"深化他們的這個組織的這個量能同時也有助於他們在質押資訊的探索上面是結合一個非常好的力量那今年仍然會持續的半年兩年一次的這個青商潛力之星的選拔我們現在是兩年一次一次一年是所謂的"},{"start":3536.457,"end":3565.674,"text":"评选跟颁奖第二年呢我们就会进行培育跟协辅的相关的专业领域的辅导工作那么透过青商这样子的鼓励措施让他们能够让他们的事业呢继续升级跟扩大那这方面的计划呢也都受到海外的侨台商非常大的欢迎他们认为说这对于他们培养更多的青年商界领袖是相当有帮助的一个专案"},{"start":3568.624,"end":3587.18,"text":"縱觀上面的幾項持續性的政策方向在未來我們也持續會在這些基礎上面發展下去期待外委會招委以及各位委員不吝指教給予我們更多的鞭策報告完畢 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":3594.212,"end":3610.239,"text":"我們現在開始詢答本會委員6加2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘10點30分截止發言登記如有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右處理現在請陳俊宇委員上台質詢好謝謝趙偉我們有請徐委員長請徐委員長"},{"start":3625.987,"end":3650.967,"text":"委員長早安我想先就這個七年百億海外圓夢基金計畫來就教我們委員長我們在外交空間經常受到打壓和限制的這個情況之下我們的橋舞不但作為我們突破困境的途徑之一也是協助我們參與國際社會來推動我們的經貿和文化交流的一個很重要的後盾"},{"start":3652.625,"end":3677.552,"text":"我們面對當前快速這個變動的國際情勢橋屋工作也需要與時俱進不但是維繫老一輩這個僑胞的情感也需要更多的這個傳承和創新那台灣的這個年輕人充滿著這個豐沛的創意和活力這是我們國家最珍貴的一個軟實力如果我們能夠讓青年走向海外來擴展國際的視野這不但"},{"start":3679.893,"end":3698.071,"text":"是我們個人能力的一個提升那更是台灣價值與實力最自然也是最有效的推向全世界交流的一個方式特別在這個青年的培育上我們看到賴總統所提出的這個青年百億海外圓夢計畫今年要擴大舉辦這是一個非常"},{"start":3701.835,"end":3717.045,"text":"大的一個願景在夜報當中我們也看到橋委會在115年度結合橋界提供15個圓夢計畫而橋委會的這個搭橋計畫也行之有年也受到青年朋友的支持在115年預計徵選84名的學員赴海外來見習"},{"start":3722.389,"end":3744.392,"text":"那從報名的這個資訊來看這兩個計畫都是鎖定18到30歲的青年活動的時間也大概落在暑假那戶外的時間長度上比較不同這部分我想請教我們委員長就是我們僑委會在圓夢和搭橋的這兩個活動之間具體上的這個差異為何那我們要避免"},{"start":3745.573,"end":3763.847,"text":"如何來避免這個資源重疊讓兩個計畫能夠相輔相成那另外在海外參訪的這個規劃當中我們僑委會是否有針對國家這個當前的戰略需求來深化相關的見習內容為我們國家來培育人才"},{"start":3764.52,"end":3767.282,"text":"謝謝陳委員對我們業務深入的關注跟這個提醒那有關於百億圓夢計畫是去年開始執行那本會也是協府單位之一主辦單位是教育部那這個圓夢計畫比較是小團體或個人的這種活動它不設現在一定是假期因為它短則兩個禮拜至少要兩個禮拜"},{"start":3790.7,"end":3794.883,"text":"長則半年的時間那他們比較是規劃在個人性的專業領域去深化研究或者是去見習那本會呢通常是幫他們媒合一些在海外特別的社團或者專業團體讓他們有去實習的機會"},{"start":3810.053,"end":3816.136,"text":"那去年開始呢幾個計畫也都相當的有成效比方說我們在紐約地區的這個世台基金會他們分別提供的這個計畫就讓學生有機會進到聯合國去做一些相關的見習工作提升這個國際的視野亦或在學府辦理各項的重大文化活動我們在加拿大"},{"start":3833.786,"end":3838.21,"text":"兩位學生也派到溫哥華那他們也在那個當地進行了將近兩個月協助整個文化活動從策展到執行到結束整體的活動讓他們充分能夠理解在海外多元文化族裔裡面如何去執行各種的溝通以及協調那這種學習我想對這些年輕人在將來的職涯發展"},{"start":3861.169,"end":3862.551,"text":"是會有比較深刻的這個幫助那同時呢我回過頭來講大橋計畫我們大橋計畫呢基本上是一定是團體的多則這個14人少則到10人"},{"start":3877.887,"end":3904.414,"text":"這樣的一個組織的形態那麼一定都是用學生在暑假的期間八天到十天之間呢那他們到各個國家去那我們每一年都會換不同的國家跟區域像今年我們就比較側重在亞洲地區往年我們在亞洲地區的團數是很少都是歐美地區那今年我們就側重在亞洲地區包括有日本"},{"start":3906.455,"end":3921.429,"text":"韓國、越南、馬來西亞這四個國家同時今年一樣有美國、澳洲歐洲過去都沒有過所以今年我們有首度開辦一團到法國、巴黎他們是在八天當中這些學生他們經過"},{"start":3924.271,"end":3931.6,"text":"萬中選一幾乎都是非常高度競爭的狀況之下然後他們去到那個國家他們必須要去自己想怎麼樣行銷台灣所以學習的方向是不一樣的他們要teamwork的學習然後也要去見習我們的僑務工作拜訪當地的僑台商拜訪當地的外交單位"},{"start":3944.415,"end":3971.633,"text":"或者local的政府所以這種學習比較是希望讓他們建構在台灣與其他國家這種友誼關係的建構那跟圓夢計畫的那個深化的專案學習差異點就在以上幾點好謝謝好那我也希望說提這個透過我們這個計畫能夠有效來提升我們這個青年人的國際視野還有他們的相關專業能力是這個也期待"},{"start":3972.273,"end":3990.123,"text":"那另外有關我們台美教育的倡議在1月份舉行了第五次的這個高層對話那我們僑委會也有我們的理研會副委員長代表出席那報導當中也指出我們雙方已經展開未來三年的一個策略計畫我想我們"},{"start":3991.203,"end":4016.852,"text":"這個僑委會作為海外華語文教育的一個組織機關在夜報當中也提到要在雙方長期穩定的這個教育合作機制之下持續來生根那我想請教委員長我們在未來的這三年當中我們僑委會有沒有設定具體的一個目標那未來的這三年我們要如何來推動台灣的這個華語文的一個教育品牌能夠打入美國的一個主流市場"},{"start":4017.452,"end":4045.363,"text":"是謝謝陳委員的關注確實我們華語文學習中心在歷經這四年第一期的計畫之後有得到美國官方高度的重視因此近期美國國務院甚至對於我們推動的這個華語文學習中心各種的合作方案上面他們深感興趣除了請我們繼續補充新的資料供他們參考外他們在最近這一次一月份的會議結束後他們還"},{"start":4047.965,"end":4061.34,"text":"願意幫我們具名的到美國五十個州所有的州政府請他們都能夠跟台灣華語文學習中心來合作一個一個設立目前為止我們在美國二十個州"},{"start":4062.261,"end":4068.126,"text":"設立了六十幾所 六十八所的台灣華語文學習中心但是我們的目標不單單僅止於此我們希望能夠更普遍 更廣泛的來設立因為這是提供給社區型的這種學習機會而且我們也主動去打入社區包括我們去跟當地各個縣市政府所成立的這種公立圖書館"},{"start":4087.023,"end":4097.547,"text":"或者是一些公立的組織機構去給他們開設專班提供他們一些對於學習華語的機會所以這裡面包括有Firefighters消防員的包括有警察局的包括有市政府班的然後我們也跟企業合作我們主動去找這些企業提供他們這種機會來合作所以至今最新的進度就是像Google我們在Silicon Valley已經是一個蠻好的基礎了"},{"start":4116.693,"end":4130.318,"text":"我們在那邊開了一年三期以後的課程除了幫他們培育這個工程師的專班以外那麼近年來Google在台灣設立的Database Center他們未來要派來台灣的工程師也都會透過我們的華語訓練來進入這個台灣工作這樣子會更快速的讓他們在銜接工作與生活上得到一定的這個提升那這方面相關的活動我們也在深化就是包括美國的六個"},{"start":4145.184,"end":4172.466,"text":"喬教中心我們要讓他upgrade讓在美國學習華語的人他可以透過來參訪我們的這些學習華語喬教中心以後會變成升格文化中心這樣的方式充分的體驗多元文化包括宗教包括產業包括各種的文化的內涵所以我們六個中心會設置不同的主題讓學習者讓美國朋友能夠充分的理解台灣好"},{"start":4173.467,"end":4195.816,"text":"好 那也因為如此 所以我們在這個夜報資料當中看到這個目前我們成立的94所的這個這是現在全球的 對 94所我們希望今年就可以達到百所了對 94所的部分 我們在美國橫跨20個州那剛剛委員長您說68所 可是我們資料上是64所"},{"start":4197.977,"end":4218.045,"text":"那我們在年底前可以達到這個白鎖的目標那我想接下來的這個設點策略我想最後一個問題我想請教是否會配合我們國家的這個產業鏈的一個佈局例如我們台灣在這個半導體企業設廠的地區我們也來設立花語文中心有沒有可能"},{"start":4218.385,"end":4228.979,"text":"有 我能觀察確認很深入我其實在這個戰略布局就是一直搭配著我們的產業所以過去我們提早去布局的地方都是以我們的比方說"},{"start":4232.403,"end":4254.099,"text":"我們知道這當地台商的投資開始要快速增加所以我們就在當地開始成立台灣華語文學習中心即便我們在當地沒有橋團我也把它無中生有所以像在波蘭或捷克我們在當地的橋包人數都是幾百人非常少甚至連一個橋校都沒有狀況之下我們都已經去設立了台灣華語文學習中心然後經過這兩三年的運作也小有成果那同時也提供了台灣"},{"start":4260.043,"end":4279.202,"text":"去當地投資的企業有一些專班的計劃幫助他們的local的employeelocal的僱員學習一些華語的能力提升他們溝通跟管理的一個機制那確實我們是佈局這樣子的一個做法所以以TSMC為核心來說我們就會在周邊國家多增加這些配置以便讓他們在徵才上面"},{"start":4284.967,"end":4295.857,"text":"可以多增加一些訓練的機會那在美國也是如此所以未來不只是在亞利桑那的這個地方我們已經一直在積極的籌劃因為亞利桑那過去的僑胞人數並不是很多但是近年來我們一直看見這個人數是在"},{"start":4302.063,"end":4327.158,"text":"快速的增長當中所以我們也可能會在未來搭配外交部如果有社管處的時候我們也會派駐秘書進行這個協助同時TCML也一樣會進場去設立那我們也希望幫助這個更多的台灣企業在打國家隊的時候能夠有更多的後援力量所以不單是歐洲美國日本都是如此"},{"start":4327.438,"end":4344.109,"text":"好 謝謝委員長 那這個語言和文化也是我們台灣最強大的一個資源的一個力量那也請我們僑委會務必要持續將這些珍貴的資源與僑務工作緊密結合來發揮我們最大的效果謝謝 感謝陳委員的關心 謝謝接下來請羅美玲委員上台質詢"},{"start":4360.567,"end":4363.57,"text":"謝謝主席 請委員長請委員長羅委員早安委員長早安我要繼續這個TCML的議題我們目前在去年我們的TCML在全球的設置確實是88所到今年115年"},{"start":4384.628,"end":4406.864,"text":"已經有94所而且是在115年我們在加拿大、澳洲、紐西蘭跟日本一口氣我們就增加了10所像今年3月初我到澳洲墨爾本跟雪梨去做參訪剛好委員長也到澳洲的各大城市去做這個揭牌所以在這裡非常肯定僑委會在海外擴大設置的這個努力"},{"start":4410.186,"end":4413.209,"text":"那我想請教一下就是說確實我們剛剛有發現一個數據的這個變化我有看到就是說美國其實在114年確確實實是有68所可是到了115年呢卻變成了64所我不曉得這變化是怎麼一回事是猜測了還是做結合還是怎麼樣這個說明一下嗎"},{"start":4430.004,"end":4433.886,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們這個計畫其實也是一石多鳥多影曲的一個設計有鑑於我們在海外的僑民組織呢從五六十年前移民一路到今天事實上他們都已經有第三代第四代的出生了"},{"start":4446.673,"end":4452.676,"text":"但是他們的僑民的第二第三代之後的學習狀況已經都落實在當地的主流對於我們原來的僑校招生上面的數量是在減緩的也就是說我們僑民人數沒有再增加了然後學生願意再"},{"start":4463.382,"end":4473.931,"text":"他們因為知道主流社會很多已經也有提供華語學習的機會的時候有些家長就不再送孩子去橋校所以事實上過去幾年十年當中我們是觀察到我們在全球的橋校是萎縮的因此我們在五年前開始的這個計畫呢事實上也是幫助某些橋校進行轉型因為我們知道後來他"},{"start":4486.542,"end":4503.847,"text":"的這個橋校裡面的學生聲援變成將近有四成都是來自中國裔的學生或者是多元族裔的學生那基於這樣的轉變我們就認為說事實上我們的這種階段性的任務事實上橋校已經走到了一個瓶頸"},{"start":4506.348,"end":4522.899,"text":"所以透過這個計畫讓他們參與看他們能不能轉型成功那絕大多數都有轉型成功但仍然有幾個學校是沒有辦法突破自己原來的局限所以我們在合作兩到三年如果他能不能達到我們的標準的時候我們就會讓他退場了"},{"start":4524.34,"end":4549.076,"text":"所以我們有一定的招生的這個要求就是說你每一個學期要開課多少時數然後學生人數必須要達到多少人數只有在這個標準之下能夠達成目標的我們才會持續跟他簽約那如果他無法達成這個目標的話那我們就會考量跟他協商說那明年是不是你還有意願沒有意願我們也覺得你成績沒有辦法達成"},{"start":4549.816,"end":4553.579,"text":"我們就進行解約不再續約的動作所以確實是有幾個學校他發展的目標他就是沒有辦法往這個主流的成人方向去走他仍然是focus因為有一兩個學校其實經營的還是不錯的但他就覺得說他還是只想focus在這些學生小孩子的身上"},{"start":4571.314,"end":4593.263,"text":"他不想跨領域去成人的部分所以他經過了兩三年努力他覺得仍然是跟他自己在發展的規模上面是有一些不太能夠吻合的地方所以像這樣子的我們也都不勉強所以確實委員觀察很仔細我們有幾所是退場了那這個都主要是在美國為主那麼在歐洲的部分也有一兩所退場"},{"start":4593.863,"end":4610.523,"text":"那所以我們都是以每一年它的績效如何我們都會進行考察所以如果是特優的或者優等的或者是良好的我們就會持續那如果你連續兩年都是這個未達標準那我們就會進行解約"},{"start":4611.444,"end":4617.007,"text":"就不再浪費我們的資源的投資跟這個處理所以這個確實會有這樣的狀況所以這個調整的主動權都還是在喬委會所以我們都還是會看它的績效等等我們看看有沒有必要來"},{"start":4626.212,"end":4640.296,"text":"所以那個數字其實我們也不堅持如果真的是沒有辦法配合或績效沒辦法到達的話其實我們就跟他就是解除就不再續約了我們因為是一年一月嘛是那另外呢我想請教有關於這個師資的培訓的這個部分像這個TCML的這個師資培訓呢我知道小委會有推"},{"start":4649.259,"end":4655.906,"text":"有推動相關有開辦這個學習中心師資認證的培訓專班那還有補助教師進修跟提升師資專業能力等等的這些訓練課程那麼當然我們最主要的目的就希望說這些老師能夠取得這個教師執照進入到主流學校裡面去做任教"},{"start":4669.941,"end":4673.225,"text":"所以我們有一些鼓勵跟這個補助的這個相關的這個獎勵可是本席又有發現說這個獎勵因為我們有我看到僑友會有推動一個補助及獎勵華語教師休息教育學分計劃可是這個計劃呢"},{"start":4687.64,"end":4708.221,"text":"其實它只有在美國來做推廣只限於美國可是我們TCML其實已經廣泛的設置在像歐洲大洋洲跟其他的地方為什麼其他地方沒有獨獨只有美國有這個計畫是因為我們有分階段要來做推行這個部分是不是要來解釋一下說明一下"},{"start":4709.222,"end":4737.394,"text":"我們確實是希望未來能夠在全球這樣做但是第一階段的時候是因為我們跟美國有簽約那簽了約我們是要focus在推動美國相關的這個業務但是我們推動過程當中覺得說只有在美國推動很可惜我們還有很多其他的點所以才會擴大到歐洲所以第一階段我們是以歐洲跟美國為核心然後去年底開始以後我們就第一階段結束我們就進入第二階段"},{"start":4738.214,"end":4762.469,"text":"那因此我們就開放給全球才會多增加這四個國家出來那有關於這個主流教師的部分是有鑑於我們認為說美國一開始是希望我們要幫他們多培育老師因為美國是缺師資缺得非常嚴重他們的不管是primary school,middle school就是很多公立學校基本上都找不到師資尤其在COVID之後"},{"start":4763.53,"end":4782.985,"text":"那基於這樣的一個狀況他們不單缺這個STEM方面的這些老師STEM就是包括Science、Engineer、Mathematic、Technology這些老師以外其他的華語師也是一樣不夠那所以我們就藉這個過程當中希望說鼓勵一些人能夠盡可能的去把教育學分修完"},{"start":4783.706,"end":4809.23,"text":"就是我們的移民能夠去修完教育學分那麼將華語當作是一個專業那如果他能夠取得學分然後專業去考照那他才有機會進到主流學校去教書那去主流學校教書可以影響的範圍就會更落實嘛那我們一方面也把我們的教材也開始向主流學校去推廣那去推廣的過程當中如果有我們台藝的主流老師在裡面那是最容易推廣的"},{"start":4809.85,"end":4824.978,"text":"他一看就知道我們的教材好壞與否所以我們是以鼓勵性質所以在這個方面是沒有設定目標不過我必須要很誠實的說在美國現在的系統裡面因為中小學老師的待遇也沒有非常好"},{"start":4826.078,"end":4845.089,"text":"所以因為這樣我們雖然有了鼓勵可是大家在職業的發展上並沒有想要特別往這個方向去努力來得到這個license那因為我們的移民當中很多都受到很好的professional的教育所以他們的income收入就業的機會比這個更多更好這也是我們的一個難處所以我們緊緊都在鼓勵說那還有能夠有第一代的"},{"start":4852.773,"end":4868.581,"text":"第一代的學生的或第一代的移民的他們能夠轉到這個方向去增加他們在美國主流學校這個教育學生的機會所以僅僅是這樣子的一個思考那同時TCML的老師我們也有他鼓勵進階計畫就是說第一"},{"start":4870.362,"end":4874.546,"text":"如果沒有接受過我們那個培訓的老師呢他的終點費只有50塊美金可是他接受過我們第一期的初階培訓的我們就把他提到55如果他有進階的培訓也完成的我們就給他提到60這個也是鼓勵華語教學的專業化的一個趨勢"},{"start":4887.676,"end":4891.599,"text":"所以基於我們這樣幾個政策性的引導以後呢確實都會讓我們的師資教學的品質都一再的提升這是以上跟委員說明所以說其實我們有心要推動這個師資培育的這個計畫讓他們進到這個主流學校剛剛聽委員長的說明"},{"start":4905.129,"end":4928.533,"text":"其實聽起來好像也有一些困難度是個人生涯的規劃等等可能我們真的有設定了一些目標可能真的也沒有辦法來做達成啦所以這部分的話我想這個是很需要努力的這個部分那我知道僑務工作真的是非常的困難尤其是我們之前有到國外去了走了一遍也跟僑界還有跟我們代表處呢曾經做了很多的這個會談我們也知道就是說"},{"start":4932.994,"end":4957.795,"text":"僑委會跟我們的外館其實面對中國的這個壓力在推動這個僑務的這個活動的其實是面臨強大的這個壓力所以那在這裡呢也很感謝外館感謝僑委會尤其委員長您是全世界都在跑讓這個僑界呢很感激我們也聽到了很多的這個聲音所以很感謝大家的努力讓世界呢都能夠看到台灣的價值好 以上謝謝謝謝羅委員的鼓勵我們會繼續努力 謝謝"},{"start":4962.518,"end":4983.308,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請黃仁委員上台質詢有請我們喬委員長請委員長黃委員早安早"},{"start":4993.439,"end":5017.678,"text":"本席上任之後對於泰北的孤軍的權益及身處的環境非常的在意因為本席有親自前往過了解也曾了解孤軍的後遺困境雖然隨著世代更替和地區局勢的穩定已經有不少孤軍後遺在泰北取得了國籍"},{"start":5018.416,"end":5032.854,"text":"或是居留前逐漸擺脫了難民的身份那生活也比較穩定了但是這只是相對於過往整體而言他們的資源還是非常的匱乏需要得到更多的支持那"},{"start":5033.695,"end":5062.594,"text":"就以本席所知,僑委會對當地提供了不少的協助尤其是支持台北地區華文教育或是教材提供透過僑務系統的支援,台北地區的華校支援華校學生來台申寫的管道與獎學金等等當地民眾多次向本席表示他們非常感謝我們中華民國政府沒有遺忘"},{"start":5065.102,"end":5067.091,"text":"並盡力提供他們的協助所以"},{"start":5068.618,"end":5097.945,"text":"即使生活艱困,孤寂后裔,乃然坚持对中华民国的忠诚对当地社区设立的华裔学校、文化日、清明扫墓等民俗的活动在中华文化传承上非常活力那另外就是我们更重要的是在国军海外英领的一个慰藉那虽然他们没办法代表官方祭祀国军英领"},{"start":5098.445,"end":5123.245,"text":"但仍然的堅持每年期辦的祭典修上孤精陣亡官兵的牧種等等那委員長僑委會對於他們相關的一個祭祀活動是否提供了什麼樣的一個協助那贊助的金額大概多少本席再請問對於太平的文化及祭祀的活動僑委會是否有什麼樣的依據和標準"},{"start":5126.133,"end":5143.622,"text":"跟黃委員說明主要我們在輔導太北地區的這些孤居後裔的這個相關活動上面主要focus在兩項第一個就是在329就是青年節的相關活動所以這個活動的預注經費都相當的多少則一萬美金以上"},{"start":5150.326,"end":5168.703,"text":"多則會依照他們的這個需求年度變化那第二項就是我們在年度的九月底就是季孔大典去年本人也親自擔任了太北地區豪機場的這個季孔大典的主機關所以也充分的了解了他們對於傳統的一個堅持跟對於文化的傳承這個我們都有補助但是"},{"start":5174.108,"end":5189.358,"text":"對於祭祀這個所謂的陣亡官兵的部分因為這不屬於我們的業務範圍所以就沒有辦法列入補助的項目那過去我們有曾經協助國防部去到當地把那些當地的亂葬崗遺墓回來台灣招靈 招魂回臺或者在當地修建這個墳場"},{"start":5204.268,"end":5223.624,"text":"期盼這個標準可以適當的修正把標準提高一點那如果沒有也希望侨委會可以利用預算的預度多提供一些贊助那就本席了解目前相關活動的贊助金額大概是每一年的200美元換成現在還不到7000元"},{"start":5226.272,"end":5237.865,"text":"我沒有這麼少的可能少一個零吧可能記錯了少一個零我們的數字不可能給太北都這麼少大概多少大概多少剛剛我就說再多一個零"},{"start":5242.45,"end":5262.067,"text":"至少要再多一個零啦我希望逐步的提高到五千塊美元啦因為他們沒有忘記中華民國我們也應該讓他們知道我們這幾場大活動都是一萬美金以上中華民國也沒有忘記孤軍的一個奉獻犧牲那我想這個是一個跟你討論謝謝"},{"start":5264.53,"end":5270.744,"text":"委員那我跟您說明一下我想你在整體上你表現得非常好你應該當內政部長那"},{"start":5273.799,"end":5292.513,"text":"劉思芳把內政部長已經坐小了那你把僑會已經做得非常的好好不好謝謝 謝謝我們肯定另外喔對於今天的報告本席注意到這個僑會會強化海外的性保基金的服務本席同意擴大海外性保基金對於擴展這個僑態"},{"start":5296.535,"end":5321.101,"text":"台商事業版圖的正向但本席也注意到這個當中的一個風險那我想海外信保基金的目的是在以為喬台商提供協助但是存在風險也非常的明顯畢竟它是一個政府信用和公帑為海外企業提供一個擔保那讓他們能向外國銀行融資"},{"start":5321.881,"end":5348.956,"text":"所以當信保基金擴大相對應的是承擔風險也會提高所以僑業會會比較強調擴大海外信保基金的一個好處的部分但這個隱藏在背後的就是風險由誰承擔如何管控會不會變成海外紓困黑洞這是一個本席的擔憂那以目前海外信保基金的一個設計看來"},{"start":5350.879,"end":5361.059,"text":"政府要承擔百分之九十的風險銀行幾乎不用害怕倒帳那這會讓銀行和企業更大大膽的放款的一個借款"},{"start":5362.185,"end":5379.945,"text":"評估風險之後緊急性自然會降低但是真的會出事的時候就丟給政府處理所以請問海外現在的信保基金總保證餘額大概多少不良保證比例大概多少來回答"},{"start":5380.806,"end":5394.016,"text":"委員我先講大概的概念會之所以成立海外信保基金的原因就在於說因為過去的金融機構對於在國內資產他可以做集合的狀況之下他會比較願意提供融資貸款這樣的一個機會那因為他有這個動產不動產的相關保證那因為對於海外的這些資產他們沒辦法去做集合"},{"start":5405.185,"end":5419.493,"text":"那在早期因為這樣的狀況之下當時的李前總統有敢於說海外台商是我們國力延伸很重要的力量為了拓展這個機會所以才成立了海外信保基金就是幫他們做保"},{"start":5420.413,"end":5444.634,"text":"那做保的過程當中當然政府會有一定承擔風險的可能性所以我們從早期的10億元基金開始事實上跟委員報告我們績效非常良好我們從10億的資金一路然後到了2017年第二次增資計畫當時行政院核定再多加20億那我們前10億的資金基本上沒有什麼大大的虧損"},{"start":5445.875,"end":5457.241,"text":"還是維持很好的這個追償跟所謂的代償機制那我們也都會去關心那些台商如果他連續兩三個月利息沒有穩定的結交的時候我們就開始進場說了解他是不是發生什麼狀況了所以只有極少數的案例是"},{"start":5466.066,"end":5479.052,"text":"確實有發生過我們幫他代償了但是就算代償完以後我們也是終身追溯所以我們到現在為止仍然有一些過去代償的金額仍然在追回來所以本會的這個雖然有面臨風險的這個信保基金可是我們的管理績效原格上說起來算是非常績效良好"},{"start":5486.796,"end":5493.361,"text":"因為說明我們才了解另外海外信用保證基金的開辦美國對等關稅專案貸款的部分本席擔心會變成在"},{"start":5502.528,"end":5525.344,"text":"在補貼失敗的企業這部分有沒有產業以風險審查的一個門檻那另外本席同意以目前的國際局勢的一個如此的動盪海外信保基金確實以有必要做出一些調整以適應惡化的一個環境但是本席要提醒重點是信保基金的根本目的不要忘記了要幫"},{"start":5526.745,"end":5550.741,"text":"幫海外台商做產業升級如何避免變成用納稅納稅人的錢為高風險海外投資做隱性紓困交易會應該要注意到這一點剛剛我提到的就是如何在這個美國對等關稅的貸款的部分擔心補貼失敗的企業這個部分有沒有其他產業風險審查的一個門檻"},{"start":5553.267,"end":5565.213,"text":"委員從我們去年九月開辦對等關稅至今是只有六件那這六件我們只有補貼利息跟手續費而已那事實上那是給他們一個短期資金周轉的概念所以基本上沒有那個剛剛委員擔憂的問題在我們現在既沒有大型的這個貸款出去的計畫也沒有說因此有虧損的這個情形那因為對等關稅事實上還在變動當中所以大家也還在持續的觀察"},{"start":5581.021,"end":5594.594,"text":"好 那至於太北的部分是不是提高我們再提高加一個零 五千美金 好的好 委員跟您報告我預算很不夠的狀況下我每一年都去募款所以太北地區的人都知道我很認真在幫他們募款以上報告 謝謝謝謝接下來請沈伯陽委員上台質詢"},{"start":5616.029,"end":5616.879,"text":"謝謝主席 尤其委員長 謝謝"},{"start":5624.013,"end":5651.975,"text":"沈委員早安好 委員長早剛剛因為剛好前面委員有提到海外信用保證基金這個之前我也有問過其實最主要還是針對這一個所謂的預算沒有通過的一個影響有一部分是我前面問過今天還有新增一些那一開始我上次在問的時候就是一些新增計劃新增計劃就是沒有辦法動用所以這個部分我覺得應該上次也是說明清楚了"},{"start":5652.575,"end":5679.491,"text":"那現在我想追問就是說兩個地方第一個就是因為我們有這一個益助海外信用保證基金我們有對這個企業的協助那因為前陣子剛好川普啟動了這個301啦那啟動301的話呢這一個台灣是被包含在裡面那當然因為前面關稅有談到這個一個deal所以那些是不受影響的但一旦他啟動了301之後會影響的也有包含我們一些在"},{"start":5680.211,"end":5684.874,"text":"這個海外投資的企業目前來講我們針對這件事情有沒有什麼新的因應的措施最主要還是以經濟部輔導為核心我們當然會透過我們在海外有些人可能會先找到你們有可能因為我們世界台商總會的系統算是分布的也很廣那有一些過去帶台灣出去的投資企業比較沒有參加這個系統"},{"start":5707.308,"end":5718.173,"text":"他們已經意識到說我們的這個平台價值所以逐漸的也會有一些人會來尋求跟我們做一些合作所以這種聲音我們當然也是會有聽到比方說去年那個Giant就是巨大被調查的這個狀況那因此我們其實也相當關心因為我們其實提供過巨大在歐洲的兩個大廠"},{"start":5730.798,"end":5734.383,"text":"其中一個在匈牙利的華語文課程就是由本會的TCML去擔任的那至於有一些調查在301的這個範圍內的廠商呢他其實不設限在海外包括在"},{"start":5745.936,"end":5764.731,"text":"台灣境內的也會進入調查的範圍所以這些基本上還是會持續的讓我們在海外的台商知道說如果有相關訊息大家可以先回報給我們讓我們知道說那個PATTERN到底是什麼模式那大家可以做一些相關的準備如果有不適當的就趕快進行調整避免被列入這個301報復的這個對象裡面"},{"start":5770.815,"end":5778.262,"text":"對 而且我覺得有時候就是經濟部他可能會有一些措施但是這些他可能不清楚經濟部基本上因為在海外也有設立他的經濟組所以這些經濟組還有外貿協會的這個單位的同仁呢他們可能最近也都很加強在處理這一塊事情就是針對已經在海外投資的企業廠商或"},{"start":5792.313,"end":5819.926,"text":"國內我比較不擔心國外的這些海外企業廠商他們可能都有一個通知讓他們知道說他們在近期如果有接到什麼樣的狀況的時候應當要怎麼去回應那就拜託僑委會扮演好橋樑的工作因為畢竟很多時候他們很喜歡找你們是的接下來就是另外一個事情就是說除了新興計劃之外因為預算上只要有比去年增加的有多出來的那個也沒有辦法動用對"},{"start":5821.807,"end":5843.921,"text":"之前我有稍微問過有哪些那這個是我們自己又再去比對了一下這兩年的這個預算書發現有一些地方之前還沒有討論到所以我可能想就教一下是第一個就是一般行政的這個人員維持費因為這個人員維持費看起來也多了我看兩千萬左右對然後下面這個更重要了這個是這個是資安的"},{"start":5844.241,"end":5855.78,"text":"那資安的這個也多了大概600多萬600多萬那這個現在該第一個就是它增加的理由是什麼這個資安大概是很明顯那問題是那現在如果不能動用那我們現在應對的方式是什麼"},{"start":5857.473,"end":5875.562,"text":"這個我確實有一點苦惱因為到現在為止115年度的預算都還沒付為都還沒審查所以我連動用第二餘倍金的機會也沒有一旦沒有審查第一第二餘倍金通通沒有機會用了所以我的這個資安風險本來要做健診的計畫很可能因此會延後那延後的時候我又等於會存在一個空檔的風險"},{"start":5883.926,"end":5904.958,"text":"所以這段時間我只能請我們資訊室要加強提高我們內部的一個教育訓練希望大家要提高警覺任何什麼狀況一定要進行回報機制當然我們還是希望說今年度的預算要盡快審核通過以便我們可以執行治安的建整計畫因為以全球的結構來說這種風險"},{"start":5908.841,"end":5932.662,"text":"資訊戰的風險已經越來越高了連同美國的公務機關官方也都已經有被攻擊嚴重的情形了更何況是我們在第一線的台灣所以類似這樣的情況我們是希望說這個經費老實講也不是很多可是因為預算沒有審核我相信審核也會過可是問題是沒有附委所以還是期許大院可以進行附委審查"},{"start":5933.743,"end":5958.451,"text":"因為這個也是我害怕的事情就是說僑委會跟外交部永遠都是他們第一線要攻擊的對象是的所以就是說那因為你們又會我就像剛剛前面提到的不管是企業跟個人找到你們的機率都很高對所以僑委會這邊是有一定程度的資料庫那這個資料庫一旦沒有這一個資安的維護的時候這個會出事嘛那每一年因為資安的風險是逐年在低所以每一年"},{"start":5961.749,"end":5975.389,"text":"就是每一年你除了這一個每年的維護之外一定有針對新增的風險要有新的建制這個金額看起來很明顯就有一些新的建制我相信其實在國防外交委員會大家對這個事情不會有什麼意見"},{"start":5976.01,"end":5998.141,"text":"那因為預算沒有審那大家現在來講就是說他們就挑了一些新興的然後通過或者說希望行政院就只要因為我們整體的預算規模很小所以我們不好提這種小東西去這個不太可能會在他們提的那一方裡面你看我這個一比較之下才發現不少欸我剛才提到前面兩個其實會越來越嚴重了跟著越來越嚴重社教的這個輔助這一個海外這個華語文學習生各有計畫服務經費"},{"start":6005.525,"end":6031.088,"text":"還有這一個重點的新聞資訊因為我們一直在質詢的時候也一直強調比如說小委會這邊要怎麼闢謠要怎麼把最新資訊發佈出去那這些東西如果沒有辦法用的話這個會馬上形成一個很嚴重的空窗我們現在確實有這個擔憂本來我都還鼓勵同仁說延後個一兩個月不至於影響太大我們就稍微期程上稍微做一些改變"},{"start":6032.069,"end":6056.136,"text":"但是現在已經快四月了因為我們都還有很多東西是要招標作業的如果預算沒有過我們根本沒辦法招標那沒辦法招標的話就是會嚴重delay所以有些業務如果拖到下半年搞不好會來不及執行所以今年的執行率就有可能會備受考驗我們去年總體預算執行率相當我自己個人不敢說百分百但是我們績效不錯我們執行到98點"},{"start":6058.797,"end":6085.83,"text":"這樣的比例我相信這算是非常好因為我們珍惜我們所爭取到的每一塊預算所以我們做到98點多這樣的一個預算的規模那就算我們比照這個規模我們今年增加的那個新興預算也有很多是當然非常重要的內容那如果沒辦法執行的時候就確實會產生風險跟空窗期然後如果真的預算太晚才通過我們真的會來不及發包跟執行"},{"start":6087.01,"end":6112.439,"text":"這個會形成我們在今年執行預算的時候會有非常高度的風險那我也不忍苛責同仁因為確實是因為整個結構性因素所造成的所以我還是只能說期許我們立法院大院可以儘速赴委審查這個不正常而且跟委員報告我們可能會基線健保補助費因為去年開始以後我們都要給駐外人員編這個健保補助費是因為我們不能再停保了"},{"start":6115.76,"end":6133.408,"text":"所以額外增加出來的費用我現在也沒有錢付喔所以我現在先去拿原來的錢來付這些錢但是過了三四月以後我會漸漸就銀絲毛糧不夠了到了下半年我這個錢就付不出來了這個是把住外人員的健康等等之類是沒有放在心上"},{"start":6134.168,"end":6147.474,"text":"我覺得這個真的是問題而且這個僑委會的預算在我們整體的預算而且我們今年本來應該給給國務同仁增加這個加薪幾%的那個那個部分的錢已經期限三個月沒有付了"},{"start":6148.342,"end":6170.033,"text":"我在比較的時候就發現除了交委會之外這個在國防部會變得非常非常嚴重啊這個都是我們第一線的問題這是我們國防外交委員會特別重要的一件事所以在這邊也是請先撐著我們盡量在這一個朝野協商之下看能不能夠趕快讓這個預算能夠是希望這個會期趕快能夠通過好謝謝委員謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":6177.357,"end":6179.461,"text":"下面請馬文君委員質詢謝謝主席 麻煩請委員長"},{"start":6193.837,"end":6198.36,"text":"我們剛剛聽到很多委員對於我們僑友會尤其是委員長對你的評價都是不錯的剛剛也聽到委員長對於業務報告的部分因為在本委員會老實說如果說以預算規模來看僑友會算是規模最小的"},{"start":6217.551,"end":6220.012,"text":"是的 相較於其他的話有的動輒千億甚至上兆可是我們也希望在做這麼多的事情然後在所有全世界很多橋界存在的地方我們的腳步也都到"},{"start":6234.238,"end":6248.785,"text":"那這個部分我們值得去讚許可是我們也希望在這一些很多的計畫或者像我們現在目前推動的政策上面那我們在小的地方也可以去兼顧到記得我們在上個會期末剛好委員長可能有事沒有過來"},{"start":6254.528,"end":6261.994,"text":"那我們去越南去考察參訪以後大概有帶一些相關的訊息回來當然有一些是必須要跟其他部會合作的可是另外一個部分就是剛剛委員長可能在我們的報告裡面也說得很詳細我們做了很多推動很多活動"},{"start":6275.025,"end":6290.473,"text":"不管是在地或者很多的跟國內相關的連結那大概也都推動的不錯我們預算其實基本上我們都支持可是在上一次聽到很多不管是哪一個商會他們都聽到都提到了我們在國慶的活動上面有一些競賽的項目比如說籃球啦或者是足足太少那我們"},{"start":6302.919,"end":6327.468,"text":"同仁其實也有過來做一些說明就是我們在整個國際預算上面其實它的金額並不高所以要挪出太多可能也不容易那我們在這裡其實要特別提出來的就是說其實包括我們很多的計畫其實它都是不管是有創意也好或者是積極的一個擴大規模也好或者延續也好其實"},{"start":6328.568,"end":6338.433,"text":"預算看怎麼用我們今天可以不一定一定是用國慶活動上面的一些經費如果我們僑委會另外再辦理相關的這些活動然後去搭配國慶的相關的活動我覺得這是連結不一定是從那裡挪那個預算來所以當在跟我們做這樣的說明的時候我在這裡要提這個建議就是說它的經費真的不高"},{"start":6358.323,"end":6371.269,"text":"可是對他們來說是一個鼓勵的作用尤其是年輕人我們也希望年輕人如果願意花更多的時間在一些球類的競賽啦或者什麼這是正向的在國內我們也有很多的預算其實是在鼓勵這樣的一個運動項目那這個部分再請委員長去做一個考量那是不是可以給我們一個具體的一個答覆 好不好"},{"start":6383.635,"end":6401.959,"text":"跟委員補充一下就是謝謝委員關注這些問題那我們這幾年補助的項目當然越來越多啦所以金額老實講能夠成長的空間就有限所以我想法基本上是跟委員一樣也是希望說能夠規劃一些看可不可以搭配的"},{"start":6402.419,"end":6429.459,"text":"那像我們近年來慶典活動我們就是讓我們文化展演團一年我們大概有兩個機會一個就是在春節期間的第二個就是在國慶慶典期間派出去然後藉由這個呢是整體的預算去支援我們在外館的一些重大的活動讓他們的這個支出呢不用受限於原來的這個框架這是一種模式那第二種模式也不容諱言就是我們的預算"},{"start":6430.9,"end":6445.998,"text":"規模機器因為低所以能夠真的空間也很有限所以近年來我每次在預算執行屢屢不夠的時候其實我大部分都是去募款當然募款的對象也有國內也有海外那我必須要說我很感謝我們海外非常多橋台商"},{"start":6447.56,"end":6452.342,"text":"好 就委員長其實我們相信你有努力想要做事那這個部分其實很簡單那個錢很少所以這個部分我相信你一定可以去把它雲之出來看應該要怎麼樣去做這樣的活動的那個因為我覺得他們既然講了而且很多人講表示這是需求那這個需求如果我們照顧不到我覺得可能"},{"start":6471.749,"end":6476.912,"text":"就變成一種瑕疵那這個部分再請委員長去討論我們會針對青年的部分再加強補助那另外就是剛剛有提到預算的部分剛剛我們也提到因為有很多大的預算規模的其實大家可能會特別去關注那可能對國家動輒得救它可能也影響很大可是這一次很重要的我們的總預算還沒有審到現在還沒有審它很大的一個重要的原因"},{"start":6501.284,"end":6516.204,"text":"是因為立法院已經通過的對於軍人的照顧軍人的加薪還有警消在他們的退休的這個條例上面其實就是我們已經通過的這個部分的照顧方案其實"},{"start":6517.285,"end":6519.927,"text":"行政院沒有把它編列進去所以就這個部分對於整體的總預算來說因為在大家的看法其實也認為照顧軍人跟照顧警消是非常重要的因為他們站在第一線不管是我們國家的第一線或者人民在遭受損害"},{"start":6535.996,"end":6552.397,"text":"或者在保護人民安全的時候他們也站在第一線怎麼樣保障他們的福利也相對於我們所有政務推動他也一樣重要所以就這個部分到現在還沒有審總預算的原因就是在這裡所以當我們要積極爭取我們"},{"start":6555.06,"end":6568.682,"text":"所有的在野的這些委員去支持的時候我們也希望行政團隊有機會也可以跟我們的行政院去建議一下有些東西要"},{"start":6569.898,"end":6590.217,"text":"要知所進退要不是只有單方面的要求這一方面我相信委員長在你的這種身段之下因為你跑遍那麼多地方我相信不管僑界不管商界不管在你國際上面也見過很多事情有些事情不是只有單一的單方面的要求"},{"start":6590.857,"end":6604.806,"text":"所以就這個部分相對重要的情況之下不是只有要求應該哪一方要做怎麼樣的一個妥協這個部分也是政治上大家應該要互相尊重的"},{"start":6606.567,"end":6630.217,"text":"所以如果說沒有辦法完成有一些預算或新興計畫很重要的因素還是在行政團隊本身這個部分我要特別提出來那另外我們想要藉這個機會請教的就是我們在僑委會的這個相關的報告裡面因為僑生我們上一次在上一個會期大概有提到"},{"start":6630.777,"end":6641.14,"text":"就是在我們僑委會其實也大力的在配合政府投資人才的這個相關的政策那112年到115年我們擴大培育及留用僑生中長程的計畫依產業需求調整課程那我們看到現在新的一期大概又要開始了我想要請問僑委會對於今年僑生招生結構調整的情形今年跟去年的差異有多少"},{"start":6659.704,"end":6672.888,"text":"因為我們上一次已經有提到在看護類跟營造類這個部分其實是需求非常大的尤其政府現在正在推動長照3.0相關的這些照護機構他也很需要這些相關的人力那勞動部因應中階技術人力缺工的部分他也逐年擴大所以鄰近國家他在延攬或留用優秀外國技術人力的時候"},{"start":6688.152,"end":6708.245,"text":"我們相對的也提出了通過移工留才久用的方案那也開放僑偶會可以辦理副學士以上的僑外生可以從事中階技術工作而且沒有工作年限我們特別提到這兩項是因為既然是政府的重大政策也是我們現在面臨我們國內最缺乏的部分那又可以配合相關的政策我們在這一次有沒有做一些調整"},{"start":6719.073,"end":6736.122,"text":"跟委員說明有關於長照看護還有營造業這兩個領域因為它在執行產學合作的現場事實上有它的特殊性一般我們做三個月三個月的調配不是問題"},{"start":6737.162,"end":6747.81,"text":"那這兩個領域為什麼有它特殊性是因為尤其是長照看護它是一個人的工作那所以它三個月就要換一次不同的人的時候對於被照顧者是一種負擔對於照顧者也是一種負擔所以在這樣的狀況下就很多長照機構就不太容易釋出這種合作的機會這也是為什麼"},{"start":6759.918,"end":6784.165,"text":"學校要去成立這個班的這個機會相對比較不那麼大不那麼多那這個我們也有考量過就是說是不是改為是六六制就是說六個月讀書六個月去做這個我們有在調整當中委員長因為就這樣的考量會讓大家覺得說是不是現在之前大家在質疑的我們本來是希望大家可以來這裡學習來這裡念書可是到最後變成來打工"},{"start":6787.346,"end":6790.467,"text":"因為他必須要從實習當中學習技術經驗所以我們現在希望的是我們真的落實到讓他們可以真正的學習因為我們國內也有很多相關的課程就正式的我們自己國內的學生也是這樣學習他們也沒有發生這樣的狀況"},{"start":6809.033,"end":6825.346,"text":"今天如果說我們吸引這樣子的橋外生來的時候這些學校如果真正要培養人才希望留住這些人才而且未來為我們所用包括這些相關的人員其實我們如果開放這樣就是強化這樣子的課程我們要要求學校啊如果是有醫學院的大學他們通常比較不困難是他們有實習的"},{"start":6834.013,"end":6854.829,"text":"自己就有機構那如果是沒有這種醫學院的機制的那他就必須要去尋求跟外面的醫療院所或者是長照機構合作委員長因為他必須要去合作的原因是因為他已經是我們現在面臨的困境政府也提出相關的政策我們就是需要這樣我們護理人員確實要分級所以我們人力我們要的不是"},{"start":6858.291,"end":6884.772,"text":"不是像我們現在因為我們就已經有正式的移工引進了像這些看護啊他事實上就是來工作的可是我們要培養的是人才所以我們必須要反過來要求學校而不是學校去做這樣的選擇當他想要什麼樣的學生他才要開什麼樣的課程這是不對的因為包括很多的學校現在不是只有醫學人員就是因為我們有要求學校所以學校願意來的就變少了學長你先聽我講完"},{"start":6888.275,"end":6911.209,"text":"我們希望它雖然少 可是你必須讓它不斷的增加因為它是一個方向今天如果說你有逐步的增加或者學校願意做這樣的配合我們給予更多的資源或者我們把學生盡量往這樣的學校去做一些媒合的動作那如果不願意的 我們甚至不用給資源因為我們必須要整合我們現在所有的需求"},{"start":6911.989,"end":6931.378,"text":"所以如果是這樣做我相信也會比較不會落入說讓大家以為來這裡是做一個便宜打工的這樣我覺得各個面向去做一些調整對我們來說在整體的政策配合或者國家的需求或者培養人才上面可能才能真正的落實是不是僑委會可以朝這樣的方向去做這樣的要求"},{"start":6934.639,"end":6948.105,"text":"好 趙偉我跟您保證一下就是說其實我對於產學合作的那個產本身我其實要求還蠻高的就是說我不要企業認為說我們這些學生是他們的這種臨時性的"},{"start":6950.606,"end":6970.982,"text":"老公 勞力而已而是希望他們要把他們當長期人才的技術培養這個概念所以我自己也會去視察這些企業的狀況對於那種幸福企業的他們真的很重視我們的橋台生的我就會非常肯定給他鼓勵有些人真的是從橋台生的部分開始我就看得到說他們"},{"start":6972.603,"end":6987.536,"text":"真的想把這些孩子好好教好然後真的把他們留下來那對於這種的我一定大力鼓勵那對於只是想要一時當作替代勞工的那這個部分我們也會加以這個monitor來瞭解說他真正的學習狀況是什麼"},{"start":6988.797,"end":7001.765,"text":"因為學生畢竟還是要教育好 委員長本席相信你的決心因為我們很多委員其實也關注類似這樣子引進來以後大家到底有沒有真正的落實到這個部分我們一直在修正會相信我們有做很多的改進也有去做這樣的重視可是畢竟沒有辦法面面俱到而且理想跟現實之間會有很大的落差所以為什麼會有這樣的質疑一定有這樣子的現象跟聲音出來"},{"start":7018.195,"end":7027.498,"text":"所以我們還是因為委員長本身你還是要跑遍世界各地所以你也沒有很多的時間可以去我們都相信可是他還是沒有辦法照顧到每一個部分今天我們就是有這樣子的聲音我們去面對或去改善就好沒有人去責怪說他們沒有做好或刻意去可能去放水"},{"start":7043.063,"end":7055.468,"text":"可是我們要的是讓他更好每一筆預算他都用在對的地方我們的政策才能夠落實到我們現在所有在推動馬昭偉的期許謝謝我們朝這樣的來部分來努力謝謝委員質詢委員長喝口水下面我們請王逸川委員質詢"},{"start":7079.465,"end":7081.326,"text":"我們請委員長王委員長好 委員長辛苦齁你這麼多時間都是回忆頂關是來早期啦是我幾天出國去是今天一些大橋啊 大家在討論啊面臨一個很大的危機嗯都大橋的第三台是第三台喔 我的中文也不能說"},{"start":7109.267,"end":7115.318,"text":"一家人可能爸爸媽媽阿公阿嬤講台語我們也想在高雄講台語這裡人來參加"},{"start":7118.951,"end":7119.371,"text":"第一代的議員都很關心這個事情"},{"start":7143.63,"end":7155.58,"text":"所以這幾年我們比較有的調整,就是一定要用第三代、第四代,他們現在的年紀所關心的這些活動跟問題做中心很好,妳講到重點啦,就是我們傳統僑社的活動,我的理解就是過定時間辦餐會,僑委會長官要來"},{"start":7170.834,"end":7190.06,"text":"辦一個活動 立委會大家辦一個座談 吃一個飯大概是這樣這種活動就會讓很多他就出生在不是出生在台灣的各個國家的他們就參與的意願很低所以這一塊可能"},{"start":7190.64,"end":7193.102,"text":"再想辦法處理,不然這個喬社會越來越沒落但是這幾年,教育委員報告的是,我們有確診檢對年輕人,尤其是第三代,因為他出事在當地,在那裡受教育,大汗,他的朋友都當地人"},{"start":7209.696,"end":7212.498,"text":"所以要如何把他們重重地這種結合跟台灣的優勢結合起來的活動所以我們現在就提供這部分的譬如說開很多講座是針對他們價值他們需要的甚至用他們價值的活動譬如說美國人很愛看"},{"start":7227.489,"end":7239.959,"text":"白人啦 白人要看本局嘛 所以就MLB嘛如果是歐人的部分就是要看MBA嘛所以我們針對不一樣的這個族群的活動你講的都還是很軟性啦如果務實一點 你拿一個台積電的副總的去喬瑟演講 這三代都來了是 其實是這樣"},{"start":7252.027,"end":7280.218,"text":"選民保障一項,我最近自己在研究也有這個現象,讓我知道這個台灣優勢的財經政策,年輕人也能做到所以要調整啦,傳統的那種方式要改變第二個,我剛才報告裡頭,講到喬教中心,中央裡面有一些要改變嘛你們選了幾個地方先開始做,我是建議啦,這些內容要有策展人"},{"start":7281.533,"end":7302.564,"text":"要有人策展,那這策展可以請文化部幫忙我們會跟他們合作?對,第二個譬如說找這個跟台灣歷史、台灣文化有關的學校的老師啊來合作你不說母和母啊,都在說中國文化啦因為我們台灣是台灣文化的社會,這幾年其實我們學校很可愛"},{"start":7305.586,"end":7316.837,"text":"每次上台表演的就是原住民舞蹈音樂,不然就是客家舞蹈音樂我就是說這些事情啊,不然你就改變完之後辦個活動,大家來比賽"},{"start":7318.494,"end":7329.544,"text":"然後看哪一些不過委員要說明一項就是說因為我們有選情緒我知道所以我們可以選擇就是說我們可能一年內改變兩個中心兩個中心慢慢去做好那你們改變完下次再來跟大家報告改變完怎樣好改變完怎樣大家來探討一下你們報告裡頭提到你們做一些文化的推廣我看到兩個活動"},{"start":7347.248,"end":7368.481,"text":"一個叫做摺紙,一個叫做書法等等等等你們特別寫這兩個嘛這對台灣現在的狀況來說,哇!看到書法想到台灣看到摺紙想到台灣,哇!這給我的認知差太多這件事情啊,再思考一下就是說,辦這些活動"},{"start":7369.562,"end":7393.893,"text":"去參加各國的全球不同語言的活動,包括原流會那如果台灣這張放的是書法叫做折扣議員不會啦,我們還有很多台灣頭版,還有一些多元文化的展現這個事情要問一下教育部叫文化部就說,我們這單位"},{"start":7395.754,"end":7398.517,"text":"白什麼東西我們一定是出去的時候 給人家一個月 為了看 用聽的 用聽的他就知道這是台灣的每一項都是 我跟委員報告一項我覺得啦 你們會用摺紙去抒發 因為你們有這些老師啦"},{"start":7411.772,"end":7435.384,"text":"不是 那老師是因為他們有記憶比較正 他們出去的時代因應參與這些活動所以這個事情可能再思考一下但是我們已經是多元佈局我知道多元但是擇址我們也要把它賦予台灣的意向跟台灣的特色擇址這個事情 我不是說它不好啦我是說這個大家經過的時候"},{"start":7437.805,"end":7446.152,"text":"加加加出來是一個台灣101加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加加"},{"start":7467.837,"end":7474.24,"text":"一部份當然有算是一部份 比較主要是國內的部份因為國內我們其實是跟教育部合作所以在學校的部份是教育部會負責的就是說他必須要去募集有足夠多的學校 小學跟中學"},{"start":7486.624,"end":7507.339,"text":"郭中跟蕭芳若越多好好參加我們的活動因為這個學校一堆我們就是派六個人你若好好越多我們可以派越多但是你若好若不夠多這個要跟教育部特別督導我請這個秘書長或副秘書長來協調一下副秘書長的你跟這裡的部署啊"},{"start":7511.226,"end":7517.572,"text":"不然報告啦,我自己很認真,我甚至是打電話,二十年的官司長說,可以把你們的教育部加強宣傳,大家可以多補助這其實對我們孩子的一代的願意教育,是很好的一個幫助啊一個融合是很好,所以說,這個再更積極一點啦,我回到那個"},{"start":7535.707,"end":7560.335,"text":"蘭昭雄 張敦翰 主要是要跟教育部說啦主要是教育部啦 他們的職位就要去整合那我就請他們再努力最後請問一下這個委員長你念台大你們班有沒有僑生啊我自己的同學裡面有四五個僑生還有沒有再聯絡 有你跟他聯絡你們都在講以前的故事嗎 沒有要聯絡什麼"},{"start":7563.07,"end":7569.377,"text":"因為這幾個 因為他們現在都知道我是委員長嘛 他們都會跟我說我們現在 譬如說我同學來自緬甸 他就說緬甸補符是怎樣怎樣那來自香港就說香港怎麼樣怎麼樣像我的僑生同學 我們很多僑生同學來自馬來西亞 本來"},{"start":7581.991,"end":7583.131,"text":"我們經常在群組上討論都是專業的課題,我們經常在群組上討論都是專業的課題"},{"start":7602.179,"end":7607.423,"text":"那我們既然在過去有這麼多的僑生的同學朋友我們累計27萬了那這一些僑委會跟他們的關係是什麼就是說"},{"start":7613.973,"end":7634.994,"text":"台灣有一些事情需要透過僑生來跟大家宣傳說明因為很多僑生他可能大學練完之後他就回到他原來的國家工作了他可能也很關心台灣他也會收到一些訊息我覺得這些僑生的網絡"},{"start":7636.696,"end":7638.939,"text":"包括現在在台灣讀書的這些僑生,就這整體的網絡,因為現在大家社群的這些關係啊僑委會應該再思考一下,因為這新聞不管,就思考這部份我跟教育部有在加強說,要怎麼更多訊息,團才過去來台灣讀書"},{"start":7656.198,"end":7662.12,"text":"知台派的朋友 不論他現在到世界多一國但是像今年11月世界留台校友會就會到回來台灣舉辦年度大會屆時我們都會邀請委員來去他們指導我們就是希望說所有曾經在台灣居住"},{"start":7677.303,"end":7699.07,"text":"讀書工作的人都可以跟我們保持很好的關係所以最快可能僑委會對這些他已經回到原來國家的這些僑生他可能也是在當地也都是很有成就那我們國家很多的政策可能需要適宜就是說應該是海外嘛看媒體看外公又產生誤會"},{"start":7699.91,"end":7723.781,"text":"所以可能有一些訊息我們要透過我們加強做這個資訊提供好不好這一個部分再請這個僑委會多多努力啊你辛苦了僑委會同仁留守大家也很辛苦謝謝委員因為我們出國去啊遇到這些橋台橋 橋社的朋友都會有很多的鼓勵跟抱怨啦是還要問問的沒辦法因為全世界太大"},{"start":7726.283,"end":7752.62,"text":"說委員長還沒看過我那天是最早的午安電話還沒看過 台灣也沒看過 其他也沒看過因為這個都在前往的路上對 都在回旗艇這我知道 所以大家一起加油我們希望在海外的這些僑胞或者是僑生的朋友大家一起都為台灣加油 努力好 謝謝"},{"start":7758.845,"end":7775.239,"text":"謝謝接下來請王定宇委員上台質詢不好意思在這裡宣告 待會兒黃建斌委員質詢完畢以後休息五分鐘謝謝主席 麻煩委員長請委員長"},{"start":7782.333,"end":7802.488,"text":"王委員早安 委員長早安 我要先跟你說一下在我們臺南的崇明國中的青少棒球隊要到美國移地訓練U14 得到你大力的協助我代表地方的學生 原來打棒球的孩子家境有的並不是那麼好"},{"start":7804.91,"end":7806.831,"text":"因為校長跟球隊的家長其實是很感謝他們還甚至說願意全部的隊員上來謝謝"},{"start":7821.221,"end":7835.371,"text":"不要客氣不要客氣因為我行有餘力預算補助有限但是我們從社會各界來你用社會力來協助他們而且他們到那邊跟美國的職棒隊的移地訓練之後也希望到時候橋界那邊也可以會會會我們會安排讓我們這裡的年輕人也許過兩三年"},{"start":7840.374,"end":7864.179,"text":"他們會入選小圓謀或什麼他可能會有一天會到那邊發展跟僑界產生關聯我覺得這個是一個在台灣難得可以超越黨派融合大家的一項運動所以我本席在質詢之前先謝謝我們徐家慶委員長跟僑委會提供的協助那接下來我要請教一個問題因為我記得我們過去這十來年僑委會一直在推動一件事情叫做僑委跟榮譽職的年輕化"},{"start":7865.939,"end":7890.546,"text":"那在推年輕化也要注意到所謂的穩重也就是說我們不能一個人團結沒那個資歷 沒在參加 沒在關心那個僑母 淑母 協安局來做僑母委員 這也不好我知道你們有一個過渡期讓關心僑界的我們的台僑 我們僑界的朋友能夠進入到台灣相關的公共事務 所以這是好事情所以我就 今年就來一個統計"},{"start":7891.886,"end":7899.83,"text":"我發現我們僑委員增加540歲你知道怎麼增加540歲你們平均年齡從64歲在2021年推動年輕化到2026年統計起來變成67歲增加3歲我們有180個僑委嘛這樣3歲就是540歲為什麼會這樣子就是說我們在推動年輕化怎麼整體年齡大幅往上升原因在哪裡"},{"start":7918.92,"end":7944.165,"text":"跟委員說明因為能夠到喬武委員的這個角色是萬中選一了啦那他們基本上是第一個當然有非常高度的這個熱情跟他們的使命感然後願意出錢出力出時間那通常來講我們其實這幾年我們多增加開始有1.5代的甚至二代的"},{"start":7945.945,"end":7958.012,"text":"人擔任僑務委員了但是這些年輕的如果是五六五十歲以下的基本上他們會跟我們表示說他們雖然很願意幫忙可是他們還在忙碌他在上班啦對然後他的家庭他不可能回來這裡圓山飯店開一個僑務委員會對不是這樣而已還有他們在當地贊助很多"},{"start":7968.318,"end":7989.297,"text":"我理解這個我個人是不排斥喬介的年齡、資深或資錢因為我們在國外在做但是我知道委員的期許就是說 我知道這個概念所以我在布局上面的思考就是說過去差不多喬介都一代的就在一代的移民因為他們跟台灣的感情相近連親但是現在我們就是漸漸說"},{"start":7993.36,"end":8008.838,"text":"下降到1.5代的啊也可以到1.5代差不多都是五六十歲啊再來就是第二代的你怎麼推動我我們大概在長期的觀察有就是說僑務委員或者榮譽職的年輕化是你們努力的目標但是"},{"start":8009.659,"end":8023.715,"text":"坦白講願意貢獻社會經驗基礎足夠有錢還要有閒都要高一個年紀但是除了喬治委員以外我們其他的榮譽職你們要年輕化確實有個困難所以我是建議這樣子"},{"start":8026.478,"end":8048.557,"text":"單純統計僑務委員你們年齡要降下來我判斷不容易所以我會建議僑委會是不是把你們的榮譽值做一些適度的分配就是說這個榮譽值就是鼓勵僑親慢慢變成什麼職位把這個統計的平均年齡一起納入納入之後就可以得到一個大的picture就是說雖然到僑務委員會總體榮譽值明明是下降的但是我們在榮譽"},{"start":8049.958,"end":8068.446,"text":"因為跟台灣社會打拚 台灣社會榮譽子是比較年輕的可是在僑界的話搞不好榮譽子反而是比較年齡我們有四種榮譽子嘛所以我們在顧問他們促進維護保護確實是年輕化增加很多所以僑委會其實有些外交部做不到的事情是你們可以做的包含海外台商"},{"start":8069.406,"end":8091.568,"text":"台商的組織全美台商會啊北美洲台商會啦就是這些橋商的組織平均年齡它會往下降因為它企業會有二代接班的問題所以你們未來所謂的推動年輕化可以把它分社群再統合然後最後再看橋務委員因為橋務委員畢竟是國家政府機關裡面的一個職銜"},{"start":8092.329,"end":8118.189,"text":"他是有這個法定的年齡一直往資深走也未必是好的現象所以這個題目我是提醒僑委會關心就注意一下就是說你們在不同因為他的基數比較就是說他人數少啦所以他這樣一統計很容易只有幾個百倍的也比較啦專業來看是當然少啦所以我建議就是說以後僑委會可以呈現的是我有哪些榮譽值哪些社團然後他的平均年齡再往下降原因是什麼"},{"start":8118.789,"end":8140.056,"text":"有的是你們任命的可以經過你們人為的讓他下降有的是像企業喬商他是他們企業自己的新陳代謝那個不是你們的功勞也做的好或不好就是一個通道我們會協助他們也年輕化注意一下年齡的部分那多鼓勵一些喬界年輕世代的投入像這一次那個這個職棒選手Phil Chow"},{"start":8141.637,"end":8160.289,"text":"不錯啊那他父母在僑界那麼久了台灣人啊也可以邀請他來參與僑界活動讓僑界有新的元素那第二個我要請教是你在1月23號東京參加台灣商工會僑務座談嘛你去東京參加這個會"},{"start":8161.61,"end":8175.346,"text":"我特別注意到你有強調多一分準備少一分損失然後希望防衛韌性我們台灣叫做全社會韌性全社會韌性的希望我們的橋界橋社呢也要扮演好相關的角色"},{"start":8176.527,"end":8199.882,"text":"我好奇啦 因為我們台灣推動的全社會韌性 包含那個手冊那是在台灣的社會遇到天災 遇到人禍 遇到冰災 大家要扮演的角色那你在海外其實這個角色 災也許未及於你直接啦 沒有直接及於你那你的反應呢 也沒辦法直接在本地反應所以那個小局數 搞不好對他們不太適用"},{"start":8200.522,"end":8218.549,"text":"委員跟您報告去年我們從僑務委員會議第一次用專題的方式在做全社會防衛任性的專題演講以及演練那結果僑務委員反應非常熱烈他們說我們現在在全世界各地也都遇到很多的天災人禍所以你"},{"start":8218.949,"end":8226.581,"text":"這一套訓練對我們其實是好的那個是他山之石就把台灣的福祉用在他那一邊嘛對對對然後還有第二種功能第二種功能就是說如果台灣有需求的時候你們怎麼幫忙台灣所以我們是有分三大組在演練所以我現在就是說"},{"start":8234.833,"end":8256.605,"text":"第一個台灣總是地震啊颱風啊多天災那又面對中國五六十年來的威脅軍事的威脅所以台灣的全社會韌性包含網路攻擊堪稱教科書啦久病成良醫嘛所以對於位處拉美啦北美啦澳洲啦或其他各國他們可能會遇到風雪啊"},{"start":8257.385,"end":8279.971,"text":"所以我們的教訓可以成為他的學習那個叫他山之石但是希望他對台灣面對全社會任性扮演什麼角色我覺得要更精準一點他到底要扮演什麼角色是在海外幫台灣發聲我們有做三大類型的角色第一個就是這個緊急的這個物資籌募金財力跟物資籌募第二個就是國際宣傳"},{"start":8281.932,"end":8303.694,"text":"第三個就是人力招募所以而且我們還分地域在第一島鏈的部分是哪幾個國家的區域然後再來是亞太東南亞以及這個紐澳然後第三個區域再擴大到美西然後再來美東以及其他歐非中南美因為你地域越遠你的角色狀況是不一樣的"},{"start":8304.375,"end":8324.524,"text":"所以第一島鏈的部分它的角色會變更重所以我們甚至連外館的同仁都要一起加入我們的演練計畫所以我們這幾年呢事實上台灣因為面對天災很多我們有很多防災的經驗沒有錯但是不只是這樣我們在民主的最前線也是受到挑戰最多的所以我們也有很多經驗我因為時間關係我可以交給一個建議是"},{"start":8327.925,"end":8347.564,"text":"就根據現實發生的狀況 其實僑委會會扮演什麼角色比方說我們在非洲我們的外交力量位及於那裡可是我們有僑務委員所以當我們的國內如果發生這樣的事物的時候在非洲擔心家鄉的人怎麼得到資訊他第一個 是資訊取得"},{"start":8348.424,"end":8372.839,"text":"第二個 得到資訊之後 幫忙發聲 幫自己的國家講話第三個 募集必要的協助 這協助未必是錢 募集必要的協助越近當然越直接 越近感受越熱切 越近僑胞的人數越多甚至於你看這一次在中東的戰火下 伊朗的戰爭 明明台灣協助撤僑千余位"},{"start":8374.008,"end":8400.038,"text":"那還有要配合中國演戲說我們都沒有撤僑我們總共只有三千位已經兩千多位回來了台灣其實在這一次的撤僑有做透過僑訊息提供訊息透明然後幫忙發聲協助募集必要的協助這個大概是僑委會可以整合僑社投入全社會韌性該做的事情然後你可以模仿小局書你可以弄個看僑什麼書"},{"start":8400.538,"end":8415.582,"text":"是的,所以我們在海外把英文版的輸出出去所以很多人來跟我們說去,我們就給他們英文版讓他們自己download那就還是謝謝你對我們新少棒、聰明國中這邊提供的協助那希望繼續得到你們的幫忙,謝謝謝謝委員指導,謝謝謝謝接下來請黃建斌委員上台質詢"},{"start":8430.589,"end":8433.471,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請委員長請委員長黃委員你好委員長你好委員長本期看了今天僑會的報告就是有關僑生來台留學專班 研習班還有去年總共招生的6,875人報告寫得非常好不過其實僑生來台真的"},{"start":8456.625,"end":8478.054,"text":"這些僑生 三家四僑生來台灣真的這麼好嗎如果這麼好其實監察院在去年的報告好像寫的不是這樣子那委員長昨天委員他們的報告都delay至少三年到五年的時間lag對 委員長這是本席要跟你來探討這件事情就是說昨天僑委會發了新聞稿說關於這個國民黨昨天的這個記者會"},{"start":8480.635,"end":8495.675,"text":"對 我們全城有在聆聽對 只稱這個喬生變成血汗血工的這個事情那教育部跟喬委會還有我們的勞動部也有在做一些改善第一時間掌握做改善那"},{"start":8496.716,"end":8514.214,"text":"我想其實當然還有包括 委員長也提到說好像有些媒體有一些 可能報導上有一些落差不過其實在整個過程裡面 其實它的問題是存在的還是在那三項 第一個就是語言的問題 語言溝通的問題也是有些喬生他在溝通上確實有困難"},{"start":8514.855,"end":8531.554,"text":"那第一個就是在專業錯誤的部分就是說他所報考的學校可能跟未來我們國家需要的人才是有落差的第三個比較嚴重的就是說這些學生的留台率過低啦那當時號稱要我們國發院發下號要留下20萬人"},{"start":8533.296,"end":8551.532,"text":"2030年2030年嘛那當現在來看我們看起來這幾年的統計學生的人數跟流台率委員長這邊我們統計是多少好我跟委員說明一下我們因為真正開始這個計畫是這四年一起那我們開始做這個計畫是從其實是2014年就開始實驗實驗計畫十年嘛十年對"},{"start":8555.455,"end":8574.028,"text":"但是早期因為他們手很皺然後早期沒有任何配套措施所以當時也不鼓勵學生留下來基本上是這樣的所以留台率低我一點都不意外是因為當時根本就沒有配套措施要讓僑生留下來所以我們早期的僑生我現在因為"},{"start":8574.728,"end":8580.094,"text":"有機會到全球各地去很多僑生都跟我說你們現在怎麼改變這麼多這麼好我希望我可以晚20年出生就是說當時他們想留他們都留不下來但是最近這段時間以來10年前開始我們有這個評點制但評點制門檻仍然高後來我們就一直把它下修讓它有機會留下來"},{"start":8596.63,"end":8623.428,"text":"去年大院通過了一系列修法這個幫助我們很多就是說學生在畢業後他如何留下來的機率可以提高所以我相信這一套制度因為法治化了我們未來留台率一定會快速大幅提升我單單去年我頒了60個學校的這個獎學金這60個學校獎學金都是最好第一名的學生我就問他們就一個一個口頭問調查"},{"start":8626.63,"end":8652.959,"text":"八成的學生都說他們要留在台灣其實 其實委員長 本市這樣問就是說其實我們做這個目的 我們台灣人其實很聰明我們一件事 我們一起改正目的第一個 解決少子化學生不足的問題第二個 我們可以改善我們缺工的現況第三個 我們也可以讓我們在其他國家的僑生能夠透過教育訓練改變他的人生然後進而成為我們的一份子讓我們這個國家更強所以"},{"start":8654.48,"end":8665.865,"text":"我覺得這是對的 但是常常我們有時候都好心做壞事 做生意 尋覓負責這種狀況那我相信 委員長也有信心 我也相信有些人會想 Abuse 我的最多啦我相信 我相信 但是未來我們要怎麼改善這一點 我也希望我們教育會能夠用多點心 包括我們講的這三個問題 我們未來要怎麼改觀那我們也希望說 這一週後 麻煩委員來參與訪問還跟華為人補充一點 就是我們"},{"start":8679.91,"end":8686.253,"text":"我也是有感覺說,學生來台灣,他們早期沒辦法留下來另外一個原因,拓出第一年第二年後來就回去了後來我們會了解就是說,因為他們本來就聽不到了所以早期因為都沒給他們提供足夠華語的教育跟訓練然後也沒有設門檻,所以那個退場率就變得非常高那這幾年我開始把以前的資料全部調出來一個一個研究完以後發現說,這樣不行"},{"start":8707.423,"end":8712.186,"text":"兩年前開始我們就說第一國內的培育開始進來就要華語密集班很兇你要通過我們的這個基礎A1考試以後我就讓你實習喔不然你不可以實習喔再來第二就是想要來台灣我在他們的國家我就開始設立各種華語班線上的實體的或是華語營讓他們有更多機會去學華語開始過去應該說東南亞一些國家"},{"start":8737.501,"end":8764.306,"text":"沒幾個是很多豬園但是有一些是不夠像菲律賓、印尼這裡就完全沒有發育的豬園所以我們這兩年開始導致所以就需要時間我們相信這個是長久的計畫那另外也是要真的是符合我們現在國內需要的這些市場那我們希望這些善意不要變成我們把這些僑生當作是免洗餐具我想這個都是對我們國際市場都不好"},{"start":8765.886,"end":8779,"text":"我都跟學校講說歷史就是在告訴我們現在的人我們避免發生過去的錯誤來讓我們未來變得更好所以我要討論一個比較輕鬆的問題就是前幾天委員長到辦公室來的時候我們聊到就是針對這個"},{"start":8782.723,"end":8800.091,"text":"華僑來觀光的事情因為有提到僑胞來台東旅遊有過年補助嘛就是國慶的時候對 東岸都有補助特別多這個大概就是四千塊錢這政策本身非常的支持而且真的會增加我們東部旅遊不過我查了一下去年旅遊的人數不是很多"},{"start":8801.131,"end":8828.522,"text":"對 然後它的條件就是怎麼樣有觀光行程要花東然後只有哀橋卡然後旅行社餐兩頁然後加國慶煙火晚會這些沒有 那個只是或或或你只要登下過七一就有資格OK 那我再查了一下台東有哪些特約商一查就有十八間那十八間裡面大概跟什麼旅宿業 租車業有關係啊這跟其他行程比起來其實相對是誘因差太多"},{"start":8829.222,"end":8847.06,"text":"那其實 我想你也還記得你跟我在辦公室聊說欸 我們的辦公室裡面有很多台東的產品不管是農作產品 或者是文創商品也好台東這幾年一直在發展慢經濟我覺得這東西也可以讓僑胞看到台東不一樣的我們台東是一個德文的社會我們的族群多元 我們有"},{"start":8848.381,"end":8873.893,"text":"漢人原住民還有客家還有這些外籍來的這些配偶各種的都有我們是在台灣的社會所以這些東西做成台南比較特殊的文化包括我們原住民的文化所以想說這個東西是可以再請教會這邊來跟台東新聞多多了解有哪些產品是可以讓我們這些僑胞來購買促進我們的整個產業的消費另外也讓大家了解到台東這沒問題"},{"start":8877.454,"end":8888.357,"text":"其實我們台灣的農特產品還有很多文創產品 其實都品質很好所以這品質很好 它是給我們建成銷嘛所以我們就是希望我們是一個管道可以幫忙做完行銷啦所以海外的僑胞 台僑胞我們一定都會盡量幫他們推銷就是說 所以我們會加強去花東地區"},{"start":8900.519,"end":8919.249,"text":"宜花東所有的特約商店如果願意跟我們合作我們都會加強來邀他們做特約商店那大家的資料就可以上到我們的網站在全球裡面去讓大家知道至於補助項目就是說一定要參加因為那個是為了協助慶典活動更多人返國來參加所以提供這樣的誘因"},{"start":8922.59,"end":8946.848,"text":"謝謝委員長 委員長今天最後兩個補充第一個就是在我們整個僑生的這個改善的計畫是一週是不是一週內可以把報告現在改善的成果來提供給本席辦公室第二個就是在台東產品行銷這一塊對我們僑胞的行銷也能夠多多的多花多花的協助讓台東讓更多人能夠認識好的 我們一個禮拜以內盡可能提供給委員感謝"},{"start":8950.147,"end":8951.797,"text":"好謝謝我們現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":9405.604,"end":9413.266,"text":"請大家就座 現在繼續開會接下來請林楚英委員上台質詢謝謝主席 主席有請委員長請委員長"},{"start":9434.802,"end":9455.567,"text":"議員好 委員長辛苦了 這個全球的這個台橋朋友尤其是我們的台商喔 最近剛好有一系列的這個各區的這個所謂台商會的世界台商總會 理見是會議啦不只是世界台商總會啦 包括其實各區的也都開始在進行當中所以你真的是全球飛馬不停蹄啦"},{"start":9456.207,"end":9474.982,"text":"那麼我們其實也一起在澳洲雪梨出席了世界台商總會的第二次離間宿會議那麼其實蠻可惜的是我們去的時間點為了趕上立法院的包括大院的總質詢以及我們的委員會我們要選召委所以我們其實沒有機會在雪梨為我們的這個女足隊"},{"start":9476.604,"end":9498.041,"text":"來台灣女足來加油可是就在我們各自你在前一天離開我在當天離開的時候發生了這個所謂台灣女足隊在亞洲盃受到打壓的狀況但其實這個打壓我們仔細來看它並不是真正的是澳洲在打壓我們為什麼這樣講是因為呢從後續我們看到的是包括第一時間雪梨住代表處"},{"start":9498.982,"end":9522.596,"text":"有發函去跟亞洲的足協抗議而隔幾天之後3月14號對印度的時候呢我們甚至於代表處有派員到博斯去加油而同步其實在現場我們看到的是這些台商朋友們台橋朋友們自動自發的來做加油後續呢他們也上了"},{"start":9523.416,"end":9548.973,"text":"澳洲的媒體來闡述這一次的過程而我自己在網路上我甚至於看到了一個小故事是當時在3月14號對印度的時候我們有自動自發的台橋朋友在現場加油那麼在過程當中呢就有一位澳洲的工作人員用英文輕聲細語的過來跟他說你不可以揮台灣的國旗不能揮中華民國的國旗"},{"start":9550.094,"end":9575.894,"text":"然後他說I'm your side但是呢如果我讓你繼續揮舞下去我就會失去工作因為現在這個球場的Owner是中國人那就在這個過程當中後面一位澳洲的朋友一個澳洲朋友自己跳出來說那他帶領他自己來喊是而且他說我們在澳洲這裡是Australia不是China"},{"start":9577.185,"end":9595.205,"text":"我要講的是在這樣的過程中所展現出來的是從台商台橋再到澳洲在地都了解台灣現在所受到的箝制跟中國的打壓針對所謂的奧運模式管的是球員其實是不涉及在場內的觀眾"},{"start":9597.688,"end":9609.538,"text":"那這樣的一個狀況事後的SOP我必須要說事件會不斷的發生在澳洲的部分我們看到的是更多的澳洲朋友幫我們發聲那麼顯然過去一直以來我們一直希望的所謂聽台灣 世界被看見包括委員長您的工作的部分對於台橋朋友的支持跟肯定然後包括他們對台灣的榮譽心 榮譽感是在這一次感染到了"},{"start":9623.649,"end":9644.6,"text":"但是我還是要請問的是在爭取國際跟社會支持的部分在這個事件當中你們後續有沒有跟外交部做更多的檢討又或者是如何在這個部分其實能夠更把這個所謂危機化為轉機我要這樣講因為後來在網路上甚至於包括這一個專訪也就是澳洲台商會的監事長的專訪點閱率已經超過在我看的上超過了三萬多"},{"start":9650.123,"end":9674.97,"text":"那麼所以像這樣的一個SOP後續你們有沒有做一個什麼樣的了解或檢討希望能夠化為機會轉機跟委員說明在當時我雖然趕著回來台灣參加總質詢的這個工作但是我一回來我就馬上都緊盯著這些相關的賽事那我們在當時隔天就是你們要上飛機的那一天"},{"start":9676.531,"end":9701.273,"text":"確實在這個對印度的這一場上面是有工作人員來干涉第一個是那個Coach先被請出去了這是第一個事件第二個事件就是在現場加油的人拿著任何跟台灣有關係的旗幟或布條或者任何的這個標示都被現場工作人員干預那事實上我們知道後面其實是中國在打壓"},{"start":9702.474,"end":9728.06,"text":"那因為這個動作現場的澳洲朋友仗義執言使得我們意外贏得了更多的力量那後來隔兩天他們就飛到博斯參加對中國的我們的女族對中國的比賽那一場當然我也很緊張那包括我們代表處就特別派我們的官員飛過去博斯去關心那一場呢我們站到中場90分鐘都還是0比0"},{"start":9730.661,"end":9744.374,"text":"所以最後的延長賽在Kick的時候這個最後被中國禁了兩球因此很可惜我們沒有辦法不過我剛剛有人講的好消息昨天澳洲隊替我們復仇了所以這個澳洲隊晉級"},{"start":9746.596,"end":9772.935,"text":"我必須要講就是說在這種國際賽事的過程當中已經有越來越多的國際友人是看不下去所以當場我也知道說我們在博斯我們的移民其實相對也是有限在現場我們有估計中國去看球的有五千人我們台橋是一千人但是一千人我們的總體量來說我們是比例高在我們的移民人數裡面是比例高大家都自動自放很有向心力的但是在那一場裡面足協"},{"start":9775.537,"end":9796.256,"text":"包括我們自己的足協的人都說大家還是低調一點以比賽為核心所以大家都是非常低調客氣的只是這樣在場邊給女足隊加油而已但當天所幸沒有發生再有跟印度的時候的事情沒有再發生因為那個場就已經不是中國人Owner了"},{"start":9801.28,"end":9805.801,"text":"所以這個差別就讓我們很清楚知道說未來如果有類似這樣的狀況可能我們在第一時間都必須要有所準備在各種場地比賽的時候都要了解那些背景狀況以便讓去加油的這些觀眾心裡也有所準備至少我們有系統的台商或者橋團其實在兩年前的奧運也發生過同樣的事情"},{"start":9826.366,"end":9837.094,"text":"但是因為這樣子的打壓結果往往都把我們贏得了在地國際的更多朋友這個仗義執言跟看不下去所以這件事情意外的又變成幫我們爭取到一個機會可以上這個他們當地主流媒體讓中國無處不在的打壓"},{"start":9845.4,"end":9862.03,"text":"現行所以我相信我們的僑胞會受到這種鼓勵大家會更加團結而已好 所以我特別點出這個也是覺得這一次不論是僑委會或者是我們在澳洲的台商的反應都協助了外交部在這裡可以化為機為轉機那麼適時的跟國際發聲把事件講清楚"},{"start":9866.232,"end":9871.996,"text":"凸顯中國的惡霸這是非常的重要的這也是一個小蝦米對大紀元的做法另外當然剛剛這個很巧啦就是本席在準備這個題目的時候國民黨昨天也開了記者會但事實上過去我也針對這個所謂的強迫勞動的部分有質詢過經濟部跟這個勞動部那麼這個部分當然我也知道僑委會在保護僑生的保障的部分也針對這個相關做了一些調查跟了解那麼"},{"start":9895.671,"end":9912.236,"text":"我相信這個部分其實就是持續的在轉好的過程所以時間有限我要直接跳到下一張那如果等一下有補充的話也讓委員長來講就是除了寶尚喬生的權益之外我們做了很多但是根據這個所謂3加4的這個產息專班"},{"start":9915.137,"end":9935.639,"text":"外界現在常常有一個說法是認為因為選擇就像您剛剛所說在僑委會在教育部在勞動部不一樣的狀況有不一樣的專法常常會出現所謂踢皮球的狀況遇到了事情包括連對於雇主的罰則都不依那麼在這樣的事權分散甚至於法規分散的情況底下勞動部"},{"start":9937.401,"end":9952.626,"text":"教育部然後又喬委會這樣的事件發生的時候到底主責單位怎麼去找甚至於可能喬生都不太清楚尤其是他們有語言上面的問題所以在這個題目上面我反而認為有的時候的發生不是因為"},{"start":9953.726,"end":9971.764,"text":"這個是我們想要去苛扣而是甚至於搞不好連雇主都搞不清楚他適用於哪樣的法規所以在這個包括如何來統合事權或者是如何協助中文能力比較不好的僑生知道自己的權益保障尤其我要提到的是建教專法他是把本國的"},{"start":9973.385,"end":9978.768,"text":"尖叫聲跟喬、劍、火也要表達的意義主要就是說我們現在會加強對新生訓練的時候提供他們多餘的相關法規資訊然後讓他們在研讀的時候就可以理解說因為其實有時候是喬生自己的誤會"},{"start":9991.735,"end":10009.272,"text":"他一方面是他可能華語溝通能力還沒有那麼強再者是他們因為跨國不懂我們的法律規範是什麼那當然也不排除有些企業確實也沒了解那麼清楚然後在這個規定上面他們也沒有遵守規定所以我們第一個就是第一我們會加強不定時的查緝第二個我們開放多元的申訴管道所以現在只要喬森有任何透過我們的"},{"start":10017.679,"end":10046.33,"text":"通過電話透過這個這個我們各種信箱LINE的啦FB的只要進來我們都統一管理然後就會去調查學校然後就會叫學校要交出報告然後我們還會不定期去查核還包括企業一旦有狀況我們就會祭典下一個年度的他包括核定他人數跟班級數我們都會予以裁罰那如果他有改善我們就會比照辦理可是如果他領犯"},{"start":10046.69,"end":10055.315,"text":"不改那我們就不客氣當年度的補助金額也會給他扣除所以我們還是有一些工具可以用然後我們也會通報勞動部也會通報教育部讓跨部會的合作可以強化所以這一塊我們我真的很感謝我們同仁們他們很積極雖然我們原額報告委員我們最大的困擾是我們預算成長了成長了兩倍結果我們人一個人也沒有增加"},{"start":10074.625,"end":10085.371,"text":"所以大家現在簡直是我真的對不起他們我心裡很難過但是我會盡量完成這個任務事情一算變增加就是事情增加但是人沒有增加這個我們可能也要跟任總再來反映一下因為"},{"start":10089.773,"end":10094.658,"text":"包括像這些因為兩種人是受限於台灣很多的人事管理來補充我們的人力的問題那其實這個有很多的管理面的問題啦那就是還是要給這個委員長還有喬委會打氣加油啦至於這樣的問題喔就是能夠有一個解決的方法那麼確實也會有助於我們台灣的所謂人力的生產力的補足"},{"start":10110.492,"end":10121.955,"text":"是 我們會加強學生的資訊提供 還有那個增速管道我們也會加強對企業跟學校的輔導讓他們知道新的法規 相關的規定是什麼謝謝委員指導 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝 接下來請許曉欣委員上台質詢"},{"start":10139.668,"end":10140.833,"text":"謝謝主席我們請委員長請委員長"},{"start":10148.092,"end":10170.737,"text":"許委員好委員長好我們今天都問兩個部分是針對就是因為我們僑委會有很多的業務都是跟其他的部會來這個跨部會合作的嘛那首先我想先針對就是內政部在2025年9月5號公告9月8號又實施有關於規劃我國國籍者以及歸國僑民服役辦法的部分"},{"start":10172.817,"end":10196.319,"text":"裡面呢我大概總結了有四個事情喔四個事情那待會想邀請這個委員長針對這四個部分幫我們做一下比較詳細的說明因為有蠻多的這個僑胞反應因為他們可能因為語言的關係宣傳的關係上路比較快的關係確實即便你們有出懶人包那還是很多人不能了解或者是在詢問有沒有更簡便的做法"},{"start":10197.02,"end":10224.858,"text":"所以我先把這四個項目我現在所了解到的先說明一下第一個是僑民藝男居住期限屆滿一年辦理徵兵的規定修正為183天那這個當然我們是希望去避免有所謂的假僑民徵逃兵的這個爭議第二個是刪除這個投資新台幣一千萬或者是有僑資事業當中有特定職位就可以辦理緩徵兵役處理的部分"},{"start":10225.638,"end":10248.183,"text":"那第三個是僑民的入出入境審查那要求返國的時候必須要提出僑居地出發的相關證明那第四個呢是取消護照上面的僑居加簽作為身份認定的辦法變成要由僑委會核發的義正用華僑身份證明作為唯一的依據喔那這個部分呢我想請教"},{"start":10249.123,"end":10257.707,"text":"這四個點目前的實施情況就是說有上路的或是有修改的那大概目前針對這四點可不可以替我們說明一下目前的狀況是如何的好 謝謝委員垂詢那針對因為僑民義男的緩針跟學生的緩針事實上都是根據兵役法他們給予的額外的一種豁免機制但是緩針不是不針的意思是"},{"start":10278.037,"end":10301.755,"text":"等到他如果資格或者身份消失的時候他還是依法要被徵兵那我們的兵役規定基本上是跟我們的戶籍法綁在一起所以如果僑民本身是不具有戶籍的他可能是無戶籍國民這一種所以他自始就沒有當兵的義務事實上這過程當中有些人是沒有搞清楚自己的身份那在19歲到36歲之間的僑民異男他們如果在"},{"start":10307.199,"end":10328.781,"text":"返回國內居住如果滿183天他設有戶籍那他就一定會被徵兵所以這個部分已經上路了吧這個已經上路了這個是沒有例外條款的第二個部分就是投資新台幣1000萬跟喬治市業中取得職位那這個暫緩辦理徵兵處理這個部分那目前是已經確定刪除了嗎"},{"start":10329.922,"end":10343.957,"text":"已經刪除 確定是刪除已經刪除也上路了嗎對 已經執行了那我想要問一下在這個部分就是已經執行了那他先前有投資如果就是他先前是以投資的身份然後導致於說他可以辦理應該這樣講委員他就是一樣可以來辦理這個後面的規定就是這個您剛剛你說的第四點一起"},{"start":10351.585,"end":10360.368,"text":"過去是用幾種模式來確保他的僑民身份持續保有一種是僑居加簽一種是所謂僑外投資那現在這些因為兵役單位議政司因為修改他們自己的辦法以後他現在都不予採任"},{"start":10369.21,"end":10375.914,"text":"那他不予採任的時候呢現在就是回歸到僑委會所開立的華僑身份證明只能用這個證明他們才開始受理然後受理的過程當中他還要你提供前四個月或者你離境後的四個月內只要任何這八個月當中你有曾經出入境你所提供的僑名資格的那個國家的任何資料了解"},{"start":10396.027,"end":10408.88,"text":"那那個如果他是因為投資的關係那因為現在被刪除了嘛那他就回歸來辦我們的華僑身份證明就好那中間他有多少的多久的這個緩衝期讓他去做這個沒有什麼緩衝期的問題其實沒有緩衝期的問題是這樣子就是說我們是一年十二個月那你有八個月時間有緩衝去拿到任何的證明那即便你這個四個"},{"start":10419.591,"end":10425.074,"text":"你只要不在台灣住超過183天啦簡單講海峽兩岸你只要居住不滿183天基本上你的僑民資格都不會消失好 這樣我了解了那接下來我要提的是兩個目前我們的這個僑民那他們有提出希望僑委會這邊看有沒有機會再做一些溝通讓他們簡化第一個就是您剛剛講的這個議政用的華僑身份證明書是要來僑委會申請嘛對不對"},{"start":10447.665,"end":10471.173,"text":"但是因為很多的這些藝男他的居住地比如說他可能中南部地區啊等等的那他還要特別來僑委會來做辦理跟委員說明第一個有鑒於這個去年9月8號開始我們就開始積極籌劃說沒有只有不是只有在台北的我們已經在今年1月1號高雄已經設了第二個去點高雄第二個還有嗎"},{"start":10472.413,"end":10487.274,"text":"因為預算的關係這個是突然變化我們也一時沒有那麼多預算那這個部分我是建議說我們可能針對我們會評估量體有多少因為我必須講就是說像比如我們在講說行政院的辦公室好了也會分成北中南東嘛對不對"},{"start":10488.556,"end":10516.951,"text":"那所以說我的建議是說我們可能在這個部分也有我們有評估的量就是說全體的海外僑民異難緩增的狀況大概兩萬出頭人而已所以這兩萬出頭人是只有他要回來台灣的狀況之下他才會有需要維持他的僑民異難但是因為如果只有在台北跟高雄的話對這些僑民而言他會覺得就是說這個對他來講是希望說有一些"},{"start":10517.611,"end":10536.471,"text":"增加我們會評估這個量有多少評估一下就因為區域我舉例來講說如果他今天是東部區域的那那即便他人很少那他但從我說花蓮台東那要到台北跟高雄其實對他而言其實也有一定的這個距離喔那這點請你們再回去做評估"},{"start":10537.972,"end":10564.5,"text":"那另外一點還可以就是說請人家可以委辦這個是可以委辦不一定要本人親自辦理也可以委辦那這一點可能要再多加宣傳因為很多的藝男他們確實還不瞭解他們都以為要自己去辦然後呢要只能到台北到目前為止都還有收到這樣子一個全程我們會強化宣傳因為你們增加到高雄這個部分的話其實知道的人並不多所以也希望說既然有增加了已經增加了能多宣傳一下"},{"start":10565.08,"end":10581.303,"text":"那第二個部分是說好因為剛剛有講嘛反國時必須從喬治利出發的相關證明所以有一個情況是呢有這個美國公民他在這個加拿大工作我舉例他如果是美國的公民他在加拿大工作那他要回台灣的話他要先到美國然後呢再回台灣那這個部分有沒有可能去做一個簡化"},{"start":10589.665,"end":10615.356,"text":"這個其實我們個案上已經知道很多了事實上是這樣子就是說他如果是已經他本來如果是美國公民去加拿大工作那他加拿大工作一定有加拿大的工作簽證他只要能夠提出他的工作簽證的證明來提供給我們議政司作為輔佐的機制所以他就是他就只要提供這個他從加拿大直接回來就好了"},{"start":10616.916,"end":10640.103,"text":"他有勞動簽證那我們就會採任所以這個部分要麻煩就是喬委會再跟我們多加宣傳一定要多加宣傳因為太多人他們現在就是沒有關係我們都會輔導而且我們會輔導好不好沒有就是因為很多人會來跟我們澄清然後講說他都從就是我剛剛還講的是近的例子就是加拿大跟美國而且大部分的人"},{"start":10640.683,"end":10658.93,"text":"英國的然後他在英國工作的然後他先回了美國之後再回來因為他怕他會擔心說他如果直接從英國回來那萬一到了台灣之後告訴你說不行他又再回英國再回美國再回來但是您剛已經講了嘛這個部分你們有做一個就是其實他現在如果正式"},{"start":10659.81,"end":10681.077,"text":"已經在加拿大工作了這就是移遷移遷的時候就是他已經有當地的勞動簽證所以他的這個資格證明就是提供加拿大的證明給我們我了解您剛說的我都了解因為主要就是說呢他們會不是很了解他去英國工作他就停過英國的這裡給我們他現在狀況是因為他也不了解說有這樣的一個規定所以他為了"},{"start":10681.517,"end":10704.559,"text":"擔心說他如果他也要回到台灣了然後得到的資訊是說這樣不行因為他就看新聞嘛新聞寫的只有說反國要從僑居地出發相關證明他就只看這一段所以說對他們就有一些困擾所以這個部分既然我們有說可以提出工作簽證他就可以直接回台灣的話那在這方面對我們的僑民一定要再多加宣導好嗎好"},{"start":10705.68,"end":10725.206,"text":"那最後一小點部分就是關於這個撤僑的部分那也希望就是說僑委會跟外交部這邊能夠多加努力如果說在中東地區有需要撤僑的部分的話那能夠盡力協助我們的僑民好這個再麻煩我們委員長跟外交部一起努力好不好謝謝許委員謝謝好謝謝接下來請牛許廷委員上台質詢"},{"start":10740.471,"end":10741.675,"text":"謝謝主席許委員長有請"},{"start":10749.81,"end":10778.638,"text":"林委員早安 歡迎加入外委會謝謝委員長這剛剛我們本來也要問這個義男的正名問題不過我想剛剛徐小青委員問得非常清楚委員長的回答也算蠻清楚的希望有這樣子的一個特案處理的機制可以服務更多的僑民那空一點時間我剛剛有稍微聽一下質詢剛剛方才這個執政黨委員在質詢的時候這委員長好像要幫自己的員工叫屈啊說因為總預算的關係健保要挺保然後有一些人薪水拖欠"},{"start":10780.181,"end":10800.132,"text":"這個我再給你一次機會真的有這樣的狀況嗎應該這樣講健保的部分是因為2024年大法官釋憲後那這個停保制度就沒有辦法持續沒有停保的問題嘛沒有啦本人可能我要講清楚一點停保是這樣過去我們駐外人員在海外的時候他們就國內不用再保"},{"start":10800.572,"end":10806.978,"text":"是保海外的保但是從2025年起他們就全部都要加保包括那個券保也都要加那就變成額外的費用所以這一塊後來行政院就統一決定說由我們行政部門來編列預算幫他們付保費那去年的保費呢基本上我們是用我們人事的結餘款因為在2024我們已經來不及編了所以是用人事結餘款以及特別費不是特別費啦"},{"start":10825.933,"end":10851.891,"text":"反正就是有辦法允支嘛對不對今年兌付過去了對不對那如果是加薪的部分如果有通過的這個不會積欠對嘛所以要把他講清楚不是加薪啦不是加薪我說什麼是指等調整的那個不會積欠等調整的薪水調整沒有這個問題嘛對不對你好好澄清不要嘴巴太壞人事是不受這個預算法規定的這個限制健保的部分那是健保會有影響我也提醒委員長這個稍早立法院通過的718億的新興計畫裡面都有含在裡面的"},{"start":10853.612,"end":10881.074,"text":"沒有吧沒有所以是可以所以是可以都沒有真的我也沒有含貨這一塊沒有真的沒有好沒關係啊這個我是覺得這個要把話講清楚如果你真的有需要的話你把健保這個部分你如果是還有我們海外信保基金的一部分海外海外會相關的部分你會後提供一份完整的資料好的因為你如果有實際上的需求的話大家要提新計畫特案特案動之的話我們在黨倒是不會反對啦是是那我們不希望這個題目會變政治化的處理啦"},{"start":10881.294,"end":10897.285,"text":"好 我們回到我們今天主要問的主題還是希望盡快附有審查啦 因為已經115年的賽月了嘛好 我們也希望軍人加薪趕快執行啦 對不對好 我要問今天的主題啦 一樣是跟僑生流用相關的這樣子的一個題目喔這個 其實簡單來說啊這包含國民黨黨團過去一段時間開的記者會而講所謂的有在學學功的狀況嘛"},{"start":10903.709,"end":10925.172,"text":"就變很多人來其實是為了變相的變成所謂的黑工也好或是怎麼樣雖然部分解決了缺工的問題但那其實不是一個正規的一個手段那再學學工就算了那畢業之後就回國這才是大問題嘛來委員長這個我們目前以僑生來講就好因為僑委會主管僑生嘛僑生畢業之後首份工作留在台灣的比例大概是多少"},{"start":10926.521,"end":10949.679,"text":"委員去年我們大院才正式修法通過這也是經過我們過去五年的努力就是早期的僑生要留台幾乎很難因為沒有配套機制所以大部分的僑生除非他馬上找到高薪的工作或是他自己創業了所以包括像群聯這樣子的一個角色我就問他說"},{"start":10951.881,"end":10974.931,"text":"你為什麼當時要創業他說如果我不創業我就無法留在台灣了所以委員比例大概是多少早期的人數少所以合定的這個能夠留下來的也少正如老師講所以那時候比例三成我一點都不意外因為沒有配套措施而且最重要的他不是等到畢業他才沒有留台是因為他在就讀過程當中的第一年第二年他就退場了是啊"},{"start":10976.272,"end":10989.028,"text":"所以我也了解那個機制剛剛黃雁銘委員問過同樣的問題數字到底比例是多少現在去年開始有到八成了去年開始有到八成了工作坊三年之後繼續留在台灣比例是多少"},{"start":10989.895,"end":11016.826,"text":"工作滿三年因為還沒有新的制度實施還沒有滿三年所以你認為制度修正之後就可以徹底解決這樣問題嗎會改善很多天下雜誌人才永續頻道有進行一次不好意思我跟委員補充天下雜誌他當時引用的資料事實上有很多錯誤的地方或者是很久以前的案子而且他弄錯的對象是錯的因為我們境外生有很多種"},{"start":11019.076,"end":11047.895,"text":"這種課程裝班還有僑生有外甥沒關係我們一段一段來梳理是是是把問題問完嘛當時大部分的僑外生來台灣都希望可以取得長期居留甚至是工作的一個機會但實際上大概按照他的說法大概有八成的部分是沒有辦法順利留才當然嘛這第一個調查的時間可能早了一點我講你現在有所謂的心智但我想很多結構性的問題才是發生這樣子問題的主因嘛結構友善才能保障權益大家都講說我們希望保障僑外生的權益"},{"start":11048.275,"end":11068.815,"text":"但前提是結構要友善如果這個結構不友善換言之喬壞生要留台的門檻太高的時候那他的權益反而沒辦法確保他反而會助長很多人想說反正你既然未來畢業之後要就業的難度很高所以我才會有一些人開始動歪腦筋就是說我在就學的時候我就開始搞些有的沒的"},{"start":11069.295,"end":11089.924,"text":"所以就會出現在學學工畢業回國這樣一個狀況好那現在結構的問題我現在跟你談到結構的問題第一個是企業的聘僱意願恐怕是不太高而且資本額的限制是問題的嘛現在僑外生畢業之後大概除非說我走專業人才留用機制嘛也就是說碩士以上學歷或者是四萬七千塊以上的薪水好這樣一個狀況我就走專業人才聘用這個"},{"start":11091.465,"end":11112.806,"text":"雖然聽起來沒什麼問題但實際上使用的比例是低的大部分人走的所謂的評點配合制度嘛也就是說按照學歷心智能他等於是打分數嘛分數過關之後可以來處理門檻比較低也是比較多僑生外生比較想要採用的這樣一個方式但問題是這個評點配合制度好像有一些門檻在嘛還有企業聘用的本身的門檻"},{"start":11113.707,"end":11126.1,"text":"就我的本席的了解啦這個雇主的資本額啊可能要到500萬元以上等等但委員長你也知道嘛對不對你也做過基層民意代表的工作有很多服務業的他可能達不到啦就全台灣99%是中小企業或者他全年營業額1000萬啦兩種條件啦11就可以了但是我也很知道現實狀況我也跟這些企業談過其實他們有些人是這樣子齁因為他"},{"start":11137.951,"end":11166.75,"text":"我不好方便在公開方面說明啦我可以私下再跟您說明一些真實情況你要私下跟我說明什麼真實情況你就公開講就好啦不是有什麼壓力嗎如果他是登記五百萬資本額這個沒有什麼意義但是通常是年營業額一千萬怎麼算對怎麼算的問題他們有些人因為低報了啦我簡單講就是低報了我理解那因為他低報了他一直就沒有資格去申請"},{"start":11167.731,"end":11173.136,"text":"他早就超過了所以就是這個問題這就是結構問題嘛這個是因為大家有時候總是想要鑽對他自己有利的這個方向嘛所以有一好沒有二好我們政府是公平的所以它形成一種硬性門檻嘛其實不管是資本五百萬這五年來呢問題問我好不好好好好"},{"start":11185.328,"end":11207.006,"text":"資本額五百萬元或者是營業額一千萬元以上其實就跟很多重要企業而且重要企業尤其缺工這樣說它其實出現一些背離的所以我們有做這些國發會有送法案進來就是說希望讓中階人才的這個禁用可以放寬以後不再受評點制評點制未來也會走入歷史了這就是你要回答的這就是我們現在在努力的目標"},{"start":11208.207,"end":11233.267,"text":"因為有評點制跟過去的門檻比較高門檻高的時候很多企業就認為說我要讓你過關或什麼他就形成有特殊照顧他形成一種勞資結構的一種不對等那加上喬生都希望取得永居嘛等等那取得永居在取得永居之前的工作經驗等等他其實跟其他人就是一次的這個就比較沒有問題嘛那再來就第三個是這個求職期間啦這個過去啦當然你新的制度有修正嘛我現在給你兩年的一個寬限期"},{"start":11233.767,"end":11256.045,"text":"讓你在過程中也可以打工可以有一個正常生活的一個水準但是如果我們的核心問題不解決也就是核心問題也就是說真正邁進到正式就業的這個門檻太高的話延長兩年打工就跟你再學工意思是一樣的所以我今天要講的是你還是要解決根本問題跨部位的橫向溝通去把這個門檻做合理的放寬"},{"start":11256.786,"end":11282.224,"text":"你要去了解真的缺工的地方在哪裡嘛如果缺工的地方就在中小校園裡面哪有工我們的想法一模一樣所以我過去四五年期間一直不斷的跟其他部會做了這個溝通了所以喬惠會基本上贊成這個方向對不對我們一直是贊成而且國防會也從戰爐有聽及我們的意見所以他的說法方向我這個地方哪些部會反對沒有人反對沒有人反對那怎麼那麼久現在是因為立法院沒有排案啊"},{"start":11283.664,"end":11308.993,"text":"我說你在前面溝通 你講你講好幾次好幾年對不對我溝通很多年了我現在建議是這樣子啊為了要讓不管是未來法案審查也好或者是說你自己在內部溝通也好或者是怎麼樣更清楚僑委會現在有沒有建立啊離台僑生的追蹤調查機制你要長時間服務這麼多僑生然後有些人留著有些人離開 離開了過去很多你講你要看新制執行的一些成效等等"},{"start":11309.793,"end":11329.862,"text":"那你總要了解一下離開的原因吧有沒有這樣子的離台追蹤調查有 現在有開始了因為早期我們的僑生整體的資料都是控管在教育部像我負責的部分呢如果是從我的招生專案進來的我會掌握如果不是我招生專案進來的我就不一定掌握"},{"start":11330.602,"end":11351.041,"text":"所以境外生有些我沒有掌握但是現在我要跟委員報告我們有進步了我們有跟教育部協調說是不是所有境外生資料境外生就包含僑生跟外籍生這個統一的資料庫我們可不可以去幫忙追蹤所以我們現在確實有在啟動追蹤機制只要在台灣有正式畢業"},{"start":11355.205,"end":11381.825,"text":"我不會要求你一定要全部都那個因為他有跨部會的問題但是至少喬生的部分嘛會會會喬生的部分喬生我們就簡單的開始你可以完全掌握的開始也就是喬生的流也好離也好的最終調查期只要是離開了我一定會追蹤他好你剛才提供哪些相關的資料我如果講說你已經開始了還是去年開始追蹤了對去年開始追蹤了去年開始追蹤到去年什麼時候開始去年年初還是去年年底我們年終才開始的年終才開始"},{"start":11384.068,"end":11412.07,"text":"專班學生的部分我們可以提供你現在手上到什麼樣或者是要到執行一個階段有一個資料的時候你提供一下給外國會委員做一下參考嘛當然是針對僑害生的權益啊如何來做確保第二個也可以讓國內的溝通更加的迅速嘛我們趕快放寬一些門檻讓他們的就業會留下來解決台灣的缺口問題好嗎委員我就必須要補充一點就是因為我們新就制正在一個交替的過程這個我願意理解所以我講你說有新制度所以我剛才問你嘛是從什麼時候開始的嘛"},{"start":11412.45,"end":11426.853,"text":"如果你是今年年初或去年年底才開始因為修法是去年八月通過的嘛對所以我們才開始做你抓一個時間啦也就是半年的一個初期的執行報告留下來追蹤機制的初步報告我們來看看有什麼樣可以精進優化的地方啦好不好好的好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝接下來請王安祥委員上台質詢"},{"start":11441.694,"end":11444.542,"text":"主席好 有請主委前委員長"},{"start":11450.439,"end":11476.857,"text":"很歡迎加入外委會還沒有機會去您辦公室跟您拜會有一點落差因為最近都在忙我知道您過去是勞動專業方面的因為我從大學端來因為這幾年大學對橋外生琢磨非常多當然以橋外生來說橋生當然更重要因為歷史更悠久我當學生的時候就有很多很好橋生的朋友"},{"start":11477.657,"end":11495.427,"text":"那我自己的親身經驗我教過幾個僑生如果他的語言能力沒有問題的話我教過幾個僑生他都是班上的一二名表現非常非常好不過過去剛剛委員長也提到過去有一些歷史的淵源因為包含我們的薪資結構要479791的部分"},{"start":11499.269,"end":11516.547,"text":"所以導致這些學生其實我剛剛說表現非常非常好的學生其實他們沒有辦法留在台灣所以我也是啦因為我也是在勞動領域啦所以我這幾年也是一直在希望把這些人留下來尤其在目前我們有少子化狀況的一個台灣"},{"start":11518.589,"end":11541.44,"text":"其實看一下這幾年的趨勢喬生成長非常非常快也彌補了很多國內很多學校招生的一些問題因為我在大學所以我可能對大專院校比較有興趣現在可能就到了兩萬三、兩萬四左右了不過我們目前好像比較高階像博班的學生還是相對來說數目是比較少的喬學生有沒有什麼"},{"start":11542.64,"end":11566.69,"text":"措施可以增進一些比較高階的學歷好像是上某班的部分因為我知道我們對外商其實有很多的琢磨跟王委員說明去年8月2025年8月感謝立法院大院通過了相關的修正法律的通過就是說讓拘留的可能性變得比較寬"},{"start":11569.211,"end":11588.791,"text":"最主要具體的改變就是說只要是在台灣讀完大學的那他只要工作滿四年他就開始有資格可以申請PR這個永久居留權那如果是碩士班畢業只要工作滿三年他就可以申請PR那如果是博士班"},{"start":11589.512,"end":11609.99,"text":"工作滿兩年他就可以申請PR這意思就是說盡量鼓勵所有的僑外生在台灣進行各種的高等教育的訓練那也希望他們這些訓練完以後能夠留在台灣發展所以在制度上面去年有一個很大的突破就是把這個拘留制度做了調整比較彈性的調整"},{"start":11613.353,"end":11634.3,"text":"所以基本上我想剛剛有很多僑生的一個政策基本上大概從這四個面向也可以從僑友會的報告裡面可以看到不過這幾年其實大家看到很多產業補充的好像特別大家會特別強調那其實我也覺得就我們勞動來說也OK啦只是我們希望真的補充的部分真的是啦因為我們過去叫中間嘛"},{"start":11635.82,"end":11657.635,"text":"現在也把它改掉了我們希望真的是補充國內一些技術類的尤其是我們大學培育的這些僑生能夠補充我們國內一些比較中高階的一些人力所以這個看起來其實我們僑生的增加剛剛說過其實很多都發生在一些私立的學校的一些計職院校我想應該有發現"},{"start":11659.956,"end":11676.722,"text":"您覺得為什麼會這些即時院校或是私校好像特別著墨在這個部分是不是跟他們招生的狀況有關係當然 因為委員是大學院校的教授所以你也知道說以我們的時代我們考大學的時候有四十幾萬人口"},{"start":11677.882,"end":11697.127,"text":"那去年參加大專院校參觀招考的只剩下十多萬那個下降的比例可以說非常多但是這也使得我們的大專院校開了一個很大的空間使得我們走向國際化以我去年跟這個台大的校長這個參加一些活動的時候他跟我講的數據他說以台大來說台大現在的僑外生已經占到快兩成了對 所以說這比例很高啊是 這跟我在讀書的時代"},{"start":11706.909,"end":11710.973,"text":"頂多就一層僑生而已頂多就一層外生幾乎是沒有的那現在是僑外生加起來已經高達兩層了那以台大都已經是這樣子的結構了所以我相信其他院校必然也更是這樣子那科技型大學有非常多過去就是因為它轉型從技職的系統裡面就轉型升格了嘛"},{"start":11730.649,"end":11748.34,"text":"事實上計時系統過去也是奠定我們台灣經濟發展很重要的一些基礎現在有很多這些O2都是變成大老闆所以我們常常都開玩笑說那個台大畢業都去給那個台科大畢業的當打工的我是提醒所以人數大滿多我想"},{"start":11749.341,"end":11772.633,"text":"但是我們對於私校來承辦我們這些僑生我們不會降低我們的標準我們希望他們辦學一定要水準如果他沒有通過我的標準我就讓他退場對他們的照顧來因為真的多了很多所以我們基本上講我就講一個比較白話文就是說我們有工具嘛那我們也有正向工具也有負向工具然後蘿蔔跟棍子我們已經同時並用"},{"start":11774.614,"end":11780.335,"text":"所以基本上就有這些事我想矯正很多啦過去的退學率之所以很高我們有研究它的原因了所以這兩年就開始下降了因為我們找到原因了然後我們開始去補強了學校比較多了嘛學校多一點資源說你們要照顧學生啊因為這些學生一個人年紀那麼輕來到我們要將心比心照顧他們所以我們現在都鼓勵今年開始應該說上個會期我們就跟他們討論說"},{"start":11802.56,"end":11822.728,"text":"今年開始只要他們願意聘僱這個能夠講這個喬外申語言的輔導人員我們就給他薪資補助那這樣的話可以加強輔導他們的生活各種的需求因為這邊針對外申部有做EMI的東西我也幫很多學校請命希望喬外申能夠多給他們一些協助"},{"start":11825.189,"end":11838.463,"text":"當然我們在這個人才培訓我剛剛一直在提到當然這個領域非常非常重要所以我剛剛一直提到就是說希望這些我必須要講博士班的學生絕對不會再增加更多很現實的狀況是很多人現在是大學還沒畢業企業就虛財恐急"},{"start":11845.23,"end":11862.742,"text":"一直在挖角然後很多學生是先去企業工作以後才又去念碩博士班那到碩博士班以後他又被promote到一個狀態了他的薪資結構覺得很好發展也很好他就不會想回頭再去做更高等教育除非該企業給他補助"},{"start":11864.803,"end":11888.837,"text":"我跟妳講的很對啦那我也希望這些僑生啦我們先把外甥排掉就僑生他能夠真正好從事的工作跟他在我們這邊上的一些科系是有直接的關係而減少一些轉換的狀況啦對 因為這個我們希望他真的是留台也我們真的也達到留台的一個目的啦我想這個非常非常重要啦對 我們確實是看留台為結果不是以招生進來的人數為結果是"},{"start":11890.598,"end":11911.252,"text":"我們這個剛剛一直很多其實前面委員也提到了這種所謂的許可制那基本上我們是希望說因為它過去叫中階嘛現在基本上對於這個部分我們比較擔心的就是有一些企業會不會用一些它的職缺的這個名目我想這個東西應該這個委員長這邊也提到會 我們會跨部會包括經濟部國發會勞動部等相關單位一定會去動態的檢查跟變動來調整這個國內的人力需求"},{"start":11920.138,"end":11949.218,"text":"所以這個可能非常非常重要最後我再講一個就是有關於詐騙的狀況因為僑生他其實有一些語言的問題那這些都是來源國大家也看到了比如說我剛剛說的很多學生他其實華語能力中文能力都非常非常好華語能力所以基本上我們是希望說這個是過去審計部的報告這個所謂的審計專班基本上希望能夠強化這些僑生的語言能力基本上我們是怕他"},{"start":11950.459,"end":11961.109,"text":"這個在台灣受到一些詐騙的狀況那現在有一些宣導沒有錯啦不過很多學校他都停留在他的官網上面我也希望是不是委員我們現在有開始進行動態的先學校而且我們也辦營隊活動了就是說我們透過營隊讓學生幹部就是這些僑生的幹部先來受訓那他們因為有學生組織"},{"start":11970.498,"end":11982.888,"text":"那所以學生的這個社團組織他們會放在他們自己的通路裡面去宣傳那我們會拿幾個實際的案例讓他們知道說哪些詐騙因為有學生被騙啊說幫人家多開一個戶頭結果那個戶頭被拿去當車手去洗錢啊或者是說他幫人家多辦一個手機門號啊然後這個病人做犯罪使用啊所以類似的狀況只要有個個案出來我們就開始追"},{"start":11995.398,"end":12010.243,"text":"學校追了以後我就做教育訓練所以我有補助學校說只要你每一年每一個學期你有開辦我就給你你只要有開辦宣導課程我就給你補助所以這部分我們也是有給學校支援所以這個我們一起來努力了謝謝委員長"},{"start":12018.929,"end":12020.849,"text":"主席我們慢慢請委員長請委員長"},{"start":12054.104,"end":12079.834,"text":"陳昌維您好委員長好委員長我們今天就簡單就這個搭橋青年會來一方面也是質詢一方面也是讓民眾能夠知道說這一個對青年的重視度在哪裡那我自己的助理也好或者是今天在後面記錄的這個會長也好或者是有很多過去從這一個搭橋青年會出來的這些傑出的青年們他現在都在各個公共政策的領域上面來替台灣來去發聲"},{"start":12081.835,"end":12106.107,"text":"那我對這一個青年會都是具很大的期望因為第一點它跟外交有關或者它跟橋舞也有關那可以結合這兩項對台灣來講都是很大的幫助但是我看到最近搭橋計畫的這一個報名人數有在隨著這一個時間跟錄取人數是有在增加的嗎還是有在下降"},{"start":12106.827,"end":12110.869,"text":"跟委員說明我們現在的入取率有在提高因為從三年前這個我們只有60個名額那現在已經擴增到84個名額然後路線從過去只有4條5條我們今年已經增加到7條"},{"start":12123.155,"end":12147.932,"text":"那所以隨著這個動態的改變也謝謝大院對我們預算的支持讓我們有更多培育國內青年的機會那因為委員很重視國際視野那長期都追蹤這相關的議題所以今年呢我們七條路線八十四個名額目前已經有五百多位來報名那入取率有比去年高了嗎今年已經有多少人報名了"},{"start":12148.972,"end":12162.707,"text":"將近現在有450個可是現在才3月喔欸還在報名中那今年的人數有沒有機會突破新高沒有辦法因為新高已經在前年完成了前年我們只有64個名額結果來了2800多個所以那個已經我覺得是歷史新高了啦"},{"start":12169.493,"end":12193.638,"text":"表示說真的越來越多的年輕的朋友們看到這樣子能夠拓展國際事業的計畫那是只有在邦交國還是非邦交國也有我們大部分其實都在非邦交國基本上都在非邦交國因為邦交國的區域都是交通比較相對沒有那麼方便然後它的這個有的我們能夠有的僑團也很少所以基本上到目前為止都是非邦交國的"},{"start":12194.378,"end":12208.982,"text":"那過去我們比較集中在美國美加地區那近年來我們也擴展到亞太地區那今年首度擴大到歐洲地區那這個都是委員長期對我們關心跟支持讓我們有機會繼續持續擴大那也是僑團看到說我們這些年輕學生"},{"start":12214.844,"end":12231.405,"text":"表現優秀到各地去不但是做非常好的國民外交而且也能夠行銷台灣這樣的一個好的成果使得各地的台商或者是台僑或者是僑團僑胞都願意進行接待這樣子的一個任務使得我們有機會繼續擴展"},{"start":12232.867,"end":12253.878,"text":"好 謝謝委員長那第二個問題 委員長想請教一下那最近中東的這個戰事 戰雲密佈那事實上包含海灣國家 海灣的這些數個國家也都受到影響那撤銷的主要工作是外交部做 統一指揮還是這個委員會有什麼樣的角色嗎"},{"start":12254.818,"end":12276.856,"text":"跟委員說明就是我們都雖然是有分工但是我們對於外館的統一指揮這樣的原則向來都是非常遵循那在中東地區的整個八個國家我們在近期也有做統計那麼最多的僑民人數就是在阿聯酋大概300個阿拉伯大公國嘛"},{"start":12281.34,"end":12298.655,"text":"然後再來就是沙烏地阿拉伯那還有以色列這分別都是人數稍微比較多一點的就是有比較多台商在當地有在深耕的啦那其餘的幾個國家呢基本上人數都是幾十個不等那過去這一段時間將近不到一個月三個禮拜啦三個禮拜當中呢外交部所有在當地的住管"},{"start":12307.503,"end":12313.726,"text":"都有跟所有的僑胞聯繫上那也都爭得他們的意願想離開的就已經都協助他們離開回到國內那或者到其他第三國安全的地方去暫時的離境那目前為止呢還留在這個中東八國的人數恐怕已經只剩下幾百個了"},{"start":12327.674,"end":12346.445,"text":"全部加起來只剩下幾百個人而已因為已經有兩千多人因為總共才兩千多人我們已經測了兩千出頭人了所以剩下的人已經不多那不多的原因是因為他可能跟當地人是結婚的他有家庭或者是他在當地已經生根很久了那這種我們都是尊重他大的意願"},{"start":12347.406,"end":12362.884,"text":"好謝謝委員長我要講這件事情另外一個部分就是說有些事要緊急撤離但是如果無法緊急撤離的時候那我國在外的僑胞特別是在外居住的僑胞他等於是有他自己在當地的人際網絡是"},{"start":12364.085,"end":12378.886,"text":"那就是說那時候我們的旅客遊客他如果無法在第一時間撤離的話等於是說委員會僑友會就能夠利用這些限地的資源來去協助我們當地受困的遊客"},{"start":12379.406,"end":12386.452,"text":"那就是互相的幫助就是把這樣資源拿來去做整個我們基本上是因為透過台商系統因為我們分布比較廣泛比較綿密所以台商的僑團這個部分他們掌握資訊也很快速所以他們很多人會協助我們做急難救助所以旅外國人如果是因為旅行團或者是突然去經商探親的狀況通常第一個就是接觸我們的外館"},{"start":12405.889,"end":12431.263,"text":"再不然就是接觸我們的僑胞所以我們都會這樣子來聯繫好 非常感謝那我還是在強調僑委會能夠扮演的角色就是有些時候比外交部還甚至更大因為他們是有當地的這個聯絡的網路外交部他還是主重在傳統外交或者是跟政要之間的聯繫等等的但是因為我們現在就覺得我自己在過去我在不是我在"},{"start":12433.704,"end":12462.743,"text":"我有去非洲過嘛那當時是去幫助當地的這些艾滋病的病患跟他們的家眷那時候我們就聽到很多當地僑民說有些來觀光或者是求學的這些同學們應該是觀光為主短期的觀光遇到其他客戶的時候到也不是OK就是來這邊甚至觀光旅遊很難得早期的去那在那邊馬上生病的時候"},{"start":12464.185,"end":12482.422,"text":"求助委員 外交部沒有住管 那怎麼辦找喬偉惠當地的台商會 由當地的台商會來協助甚至有些比較遺憾的就是去世在當地的那到時候也是由當地的台商或者是跟喬偉惠相關的系統來去協助所以他能夠扮演的角色真的非常大"},{"start":12483.383,"end":12511.005,"text":"過去我們常常會把外交部當成是首要的這個求助的對象那當然是因為在遇到重大的這個危機的時候會是但是當地的人脈連結喬爾會可以扮演的角色確實是很重要確實所以我們到目前為止在全球設立了一百多個疾難救助協會就是在彌補這個不足因為我們並不是所有國家都有駐外管處那就算有駐外管處也不見得對當地的社政警政衛政法務"},{"start":12512.286,"end":12540.487,"text":"徹底了解當地的台商其實不管是對當地的這些政要啊警政他的衛生衛生衛生設施他的人脈跟資訊往往還更充分所以說這一個整體的名冊的這一個定期的更新還有定期的維護需要的這些人物那對可以我提供資料給委員參考我覺得對也可以然後也是希望就是委員長我們更加期許委員會扮演更重要的角色在這個地方因為到時候"},{"start":12541.167,"end":12554.451,"text":"有的他說趕快趕快送回來送回台灣但是如果說當地的機場像是杜拜這樣已經直接遇到重大的這些攻擊就要就地尋求安全的那時候就要找僑委會是的是的好謝謝謝謝委員關心謝謝接下來請蔡春籌蔡春籌蔡春籌委員不在請洪孟凱洪孟凱洪孟凱委員不在"},{"start":12569.938,"end":12597.103,"text":"我們今天已登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有陳永康委員蔡春籌委員提出書面質詢請列入紀錄並刊登公報委員書面及口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者請僑委會兩週內以書面答覆委員有約定期限者從其鎖定本日會議到此結束散會"},{"start":12598.444,"end":12599.606,"text":"謝謝 辛苦了謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"167616","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167616","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053dc97427b06bbae58d268b4a161496bd94d1c9dfa77de2098ca451516e78a3c485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"11:23:08 - 11:32:56","影片長度":"00:09:48","會議時間":"2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、 邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、 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謝謝主席 那有請合安會陳主委跟經濟部賴次長跟台電的副總經理許副總上台 謝謝好 請上三個機關代表上台 謝謝"},{"start":25.592,"end":52.293,"text":"好 首先問應該是關於經濟部的能源的問題隨著NVIDIA跟Google微軟跟亞馬遜的科技大廠巨頭紛紛在台擴大投資資料中心之後台灣大學的教授趙家瑋他預估到2030年的無碳電力或是綠電的需求會達到700億度可是我們現在才發現到2025年台灣的再生能源發電量只有378億度請問"},{"start":56.158,"end":68.171,"text":"我們經濟部我們能夠在2030年達到每年700億度跟趙家瑋教授說的再生能源的發電量總量嗎來滿足到海內外企業在台灣的這樣的一個需求"},{"start":69.139,"end":95.677,"text":"首先在綠電的供給跟需求的部分我以去年為例的話去年我們的供給量差不多超過400億度那企業的需求差不多是200多億度那今年大概企業的需求是250幾億度那我們預估今年大概可以提供大概相關的綠電最新調查的結果差不多530多億度當然我們可以滿足的那這個是一個長遠的目標你是說什麼時候是500億度是什麼時候2030年嗎2026"},{"start":99.199,"end":105.04,"text":"2026 500億度所以我剛才問的問題是2030年700億度你認為是沒問題的嗎我們現在有計畫有秩序的在推動這個工作比如說我們今年的離岸風電的併網大概有5.3GW市長我請你就問說2030年能不能700億度你回答能不能"},{"start":128.741,"end":149.699,"text":"這個基本上我們有推估過大概是在2030年之前我們供給是大於需求的啦好 但是700億度應該 妳說認為可以可是我說700億度 妳剛才說到500億度這樣很大的問題喔 事實上妳沒有在做承諾啦因為妳沒有辦法做承諾 為什麼啊因為我們看到去年啊 光電的修法已經擴大了環評啊"},{"start":151.28,"end":174.291,"text":"丹納斯颱風又吹翻了十萬片的太陽能板李漢豐電也處於在全球的一個逆風期包括台灣也有跟這個森威能源公司跟台電有工程款的款項整個再生能源的發展就進入到了一個停滯期可是你現在卻說是可以直接的說應該是需求你們供給會大於需求這是根本是"},{"start":175.578,"end":199.586,"text":"沒辦法配合的這樣給目標達成啊那如果你們這樣子達成你們這樣說明齁那如果真正沒辦法達成尤其是會不會因為到說因為像Amedia他們收Microsoft的Google這些大廠他們如果因為我們綠電沒辦法達成在2030年的時候而開天窗而把預估到甚至到2028年他們就移轉到其他的像日本啊韓國這些國家的時候那害台灣喪失了這樣子的AI產業鏈的樞紐地位的話"},{"start":204.508,"end":227.349,"text":"這個是沒辦法去接受的啊因為我們台灣在國際界最大的利益在這裡啊那這個時候是不是經濟部跟秦政院長要負責下台啊委員無論是Media或是美光都已經宣布在台灣設立總部或是擴大建廠我相信他們有他們評估的這個基礎那政府也努力在做綠電的發展"},{"start":229.059,"end":249.317,"text":"那雖然說去年通過的有關於太陽能光電的幾個法規是全世界最嚴格的但是我們還是有排成的把這些所謂的太陽能光電組織的發展出來你們我們就拭目以待就對了希望是真的是供給大於需求那下面再一個問題就在於說呢"},{"start":249.897,"end":277.259,"text":"現在因為你們已經提到了經濟部呢對於核二核三呢是準備要重啟因為是經濟部已經跟台電說要提出來這樣一個申請的這樣的一個計畫以後會慢慢再進行那現在的問題呢是在於說我們看到呢因為核電廠的裡面的核廢料呢賴清德總統也說到嘛核廢料應該要有解我們看到了核三廠的燃料池呢現在它剩下的535宿的存放空間呢那包含到"},{"start":278.139,"end":285.102,"text":"這個一號機組二號機組加起來的事實上是535可是如果每個機組的週期算起來是66如果再算到一個週期是18個月的話四個週期是6年那這個地方我們想問的是說它事實上可以營運到6年可是台電為什麼之前預估到河山廠只能再運作3到5年它就誤導社會大眾這部分有個前提對不對"},{"start":302.363,"end":311.882,"text":"第一點三到五年是一個保守的估計我總是不能說萬一我說六年到最後第二個大概就是因為"},{"start":313.223,"end":339.653,"text":"主要是河山之前它因為要進入除役所以它在前一個週期的燃料的耗盡我想就是說燃耗的部分比較多所以比如說像我們估計大概第一個週期呢第一個十八個週期就不是六十六束了就要將近八十束的燃料也就是說你六年的部分大概就是以一般營運中的週期性的大修去估計大概六十六束到七十束到六十八束左右"},{"start":340.293,"end":357.17,"text":"可是呢因為它已經進入廚藝燃耗已經比較燃耗比較多了也就是說它的鈾的那個可以發電的鈾的含量比較少所以必須要到八十數因為兩部機都必須要到八十數好那沒有問題我現在可以大家理解可是我們現在知道齁"},{"start":357.811,"end":380.49,"text":"核安會的那個核物料管制組的組長陳文權說100 100因為他現在還有空其實還可以再運轉嘛3到5年這邊可是現在的部分呢如果這樣講的話其實到6年或是到5年因為看到121年6月這樣的情況之下應該是可以接續下去如果在核三廠的乾式儲存槽可以完成的話是不是可以說不用再停機就可以直接再運轉下去是沒有問題的"},{"start":381.471,"end":410.697,"text":"對 我們現在在審標中核三的我們在審標中希望是這個答案在這邊說他不用再停機再重啟那最後一個問題就可以看到的是一個這部分看到的是說我們現在因為剛剛說核二也涉及到了那我們發挖核二的部分現在它涉及到的是它已經有在就是現在它做這個冷測試那預計說年底的部分就完成測試那會之後會交給還會因為才開始會做台電會做自主的安全檢查對不對"},{"start":413.788,"end":433.286,"text":"那自主安全檢查之後呢包括的是他的這個自主安全檢查然後等等的還有包括是他還要再去看待說是不是有一個時間性檢查的時間會不會很久然後才會影響到整個的合二廠的這個一個運轉時間是不是給一個明確的交代目前來講我們所要工作當然就是把"},{"start":439.602,"end":464.315,"text":"624宿裡面的燃料在柑橘設施拿出來拿出來以後我們才能夠進行所謂的安全的這個檢測的部分對 那這個時間你們大家預估如果順利的話當然如果說需要帶什麼備料什麼安全的零件必須再補的話如果說順利的話大概會多久時間基本上有兩個變數第一個變數大概就是我們如果依照目前的期程希望在明年的一號機"},{"start":466.036,"end":481.408,"text":"合合的醫藥機的燃料能夠移到乾除設施那再進行安檢那安檢以後才會看設備的一個狀態去做相關的更新的工作那更新的工作又牽扯到譬如說我這個設備我總是要採購採購我下單以後它有一個leading time製造期"},{"start":484.81,"end":509.09,"text":"那製造期這個部分的影響會的變數比較大的原因是會根據我國際的目前到底它是一個買方市場還是一個賣方市場跟國際核能的這個發展的部分如果很多十家通通下同樣的料那當然我必須要去搶這個料那它的Leading Time它的先期製造的這個到貨的這個日期當然就會非常長這個是比較大的變數"},{"start":509.93,"end":528.141,"text":"那如果是根據像河山這個情況下是不是就像現在的今年河山部分今年三月底要提出自主安全的已經提出報告出來再運轉計畫 再運轉的 再運轉計畫這是一項準備計畫可是如果去年自主安全計畫在河山提出來對不對那現在已經完成要提到已經"},{"start":530.283,"end":553.04,"text":"年月底要送到河岸會去審對不對那這個部分看起來的話應該是蠻快的大概半年多而已嘛如果說順利的話要看河岸會審查的期程沒有我剛剛說自主安全檢查這些部分啦那如果是這樣的話我看預計可能到20如果真的順利的話可能2028、29就可以提出自主安全計畫出來是有可能的嘛安全對安全跟時間上"},{"start":555.464,"end":573.451,"text":"等於是安全我沒辦法用時間來去確認對 但是如果說順利的話就是自主安全計畫應該是有計畫完成嘛對不對要看我的檢測的結果好 我們希望說到時候完成是不是核安會這邊收到台電的自主安全計畫在核二廠的部分核安會是不是也能夠是儘快的來提出好好的審查"},{"start":575.552,"end":587.232,"text":"我們會好好審查好 我們希望以安全無虞這也是民眾黨最重要的需求安全無虞的情況之下然後再繼續回復到我們台灣供電的需求好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167615","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167615","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605336ed994bcef11b276c6d05596fd77c734d1c9dfa77de2098789215d5dfcb6ad05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"11:20:10 - 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謝謝委員隨詢那針對因為僑民義男的緩針跟學生的緩針事實上都是根據兵役法他們給予的額外的一種豁免機制但是緩針不是不針的意思是"},{"start":140.051,"end":156.577,"text":"等到他如果資格或者身份消失的時候他還是依法要被徵兵那我們的兵役規定基本上是跟我們的戶籍法綁在一起所以如果僑民本身是不具有戶籍的他可能是無戶籍國民這一種"},{"start":156.957,"end":170.678,"text":"所以他自始就沒有當兵的義務事實上這過程當中有些人是沒有搞清楚自己的身份那在19歲到36歲之間的僑民義男他們如果在返回國內居住如果滿183天"},{"start":172.441,"end":190.015,"text":"他是有戶籍 那他就一定會被徵兵所以這個部分已經上路了吧這個已經上路了 這個是沒有例外條款的第二個部分就是投資新台幣一千萬跟喬治事業中取得職位那這個暫緩辦理徵兵處理這個部分那目前是已經確定刪除了嗎"},{"start":191.956,"end":207.02,"text":"已經刪除 確定是刪除已經刪除也上路了嗎對 已經執行了那我想要問一下 在這個部分就是已經執行了 那他先前有投資如果就是他先前是以投資的身份然後導致於說他可以辦理保證應該這樣講委員他就是一樣可以來辦理這個後面的規定就是這個您剛剛你說的第四點一起啦過去是用幾種模式來確保他的僑名身份持續"},{"start":219.264,"end":222.488,"text":"保有一種是僑居加簽嘛一種是所謂僑外投資嘛那現在這些呢因為兵役單位議政司因為修改他們自己的辦法以後他現在都不予採任那他不予採任的時候呢現在就是回歸到"},{"start":234.881,"end":239.085,"text":"僑委會所開立的華僑身份證明只能用這個證明他們才開始受理然後受理的過程當中他還要你提供前四個月或者你離境後的四個月內只要任何這八個月當中你有曾經出入境你所提供的僑民資格的那個國家的任何資料了解"},{"start":258.041,"end":269.471,"text":"那那個如果他是因為投資的關係那因為現在被刪除了嘛那他就回歸來辦我們的打消身份證明就好那中間他有多少的多久的這個緩衝期讓他去做這個沒有什麼緩衝期的問題其實沒有緩衝期的問題是這樣子就是說我們是一年十二個月那你有八個月時間有緩衝去拿到任何的證明那即便你這個四個"},{"start":281.621,"end":287.205,"text":"你只要不在台灣住超過183天啦簡單講海峽兩岸你只要居住不滿183天基本上你的僑民資格都不會消失這樣我了解了那接下來我要提的是兩個目前我們的這個僑民那他們有提出希望僑委會這邊看有沒有機會再做一些溝通讓他們簡化第一個就是您剛剛講的這個議政用的華僑身份證明書是要來僑委會申請嘛對不對"},{"start":309.679,"end":333.147,"text":"但是因為很多的這些藝男他的居住地比如說他可能中南部地區啊等等的那他還要特別來僑委會來做辦理跟委員說明第一個有鑒於這個去年9月8號開始我們就開始積極籌劃說沒有只有不是只有在台北的我們已經在今年1月1號高雄已經設了第二個去點高雄第二個還有嗎"},{"start":334.427,"end":349.285,"text":"因為預算的關係這個是突然變化我們也一時沒有那麼多預算那這個部分我是建議說我們可能針對我們會評估量體有多少因為我必須講就是說像比如我們在講說行政院的辦公室好了也會分成北中南東嘛對不對"},{"start":350.566,"end":356.709,"text":"那所以說我的建議是說我們可能在這個部分也有我們有評估的量就是說全體的海外僑民異難緩增的狀況大概兩萬出頭人而已所以這兩萬出頭人是只有他要回來台灣的狀況之下他才會有需要維持他的僑民異難"},{"start":371.155,"end":398.483,"text":"但是因為如果只有在台北跟高雄的話對這些僑民而言他會覺得就是說這個對他來講是希望說有一些增加我們會評估這個量有多少評估一下就因為區域我舉例來講說如果他今天是東部區域的好那那即便他人很少那他但從我說花蓮台東那要到台北跟高雄其實對他而言其實也有一定的這個距離喔那這點請你們再回去做評估"},{"start":400.003,"end":426.528,"text":"那另外一點還可以就是說請人家可以委辦這個是可以委辦不一定要本人親自辦理也可以委辦那這一點可能要再多加宣傳因為很多的藝男他們確實還不瞭解他們都以為要自己去辦然後呢要只能到台北到目前為止都還有收到這樣子一個訊息我們會強化宣傳因為你們增加到高雄這個部分的話其實知道的人並不多所以也希望說既然有增加了已經增加了能多宣傳一下"},{"start":427.108,"end":432.97,"text":"那第二個部分是說好因為剛剛有講嘛反國時必須從喬治利出發的相關證明所以有一個情況是呢有這個美國公民他在這個加拿大工作我舉例他如果是美國的公民他在加拿大工作那他要回台灣的話他要先到美國然後呢再回台灣那這個部分有沒有可能去做一個簡化"},{"start":451.678,"end":474.945,"text":"這個其實我們個案上已經知道很多了事實上是這樣子就是說他如果是已經他本來如果是美國公民去加拿大工作那他加拿大工作一定有加拿大的工作簽證他只要能夠提出他的工作簽證的證明來提供給我們議政司作為輔佐的機制所以他就是他就只要提供這個他從加拿大直接回來就好了"},{"start":478.846,"end":506.943,"text":"還有勞動簽證 那我們就會採認所以這個部分要麻煩就是喬委會再跟我們多加宣傳 一定要多加宣傳因為太多人他們現在其實沒有關係 我們都會輔導而且我們會輔導好不好沒有就是因為很多人會來跟我們陳情然後講說他都從就是我剛剛還講的是近的例子就加拿大跟美國 而且大部分的人英國的 然後他在英國工作的然後他先回了美國之後再回來 因為他怕"},{"start":507.583,"end":526.314,"text":"他會擔心說他如果直接從英國回來那萬一到了台灣之後告訴你說不行他又要再回英國再回美國再回來但是您剛已經講了嘛這個部分你們有做一個就是其實他現在如果正式已經在加拿大工作了就是移遷移遷的時候就是他已經有當地的勞動簽證所以他的這個資格證明就是提供加拿大的證明給我們我了解您剛說的我都了解因為主要就是說呢他們會"},{"start":535.74,"end":540.205,"text":"他去英國工作他就停過英國的這裡給我們他現在狀況是因為他也不了解說有這樣的一個規定所以他為了擔心說他如果他也要回到台灣了然後得到的資訊是說這樣不行因為他就看新聞嘛新聞寫的只有說反國要從僑居地出發相關證明他就只看這一段所以說對他們就有一些困擾"},{"start":558.504,"end":585.956,"text":"所以這個部分既然我們有說可以提出工作簽證他就可以直接回台灣的話那在這方面對我們的僑民一定要再多加宣導好嗎好那最後一小點部分就是關於這個撤僑的部分那也希望就是說僑委會跟外交部這邊能夠多加努力如果說在中東地區有需要撤僑的部分的話那能夠盡力協助我們的僑民好這個再麻煩我們委員長跟外交部一起努力好不好謝謝徐委員"}]}},{"id":"167600","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167600","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605326014caa4aea509052e56fd78df8e6504d1c9dfa77de20980c047472bec184315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"顏寬恒","委員發言時間":"11:02:55 - 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下一位資訊委員請嚴寬衡委員主席各位聯席官員大家好 主席有請金管會彭主委請金管會彭主委委員好主委好"},{"start":25.256,"end":41.714,"text":"主委2025年5月初的時候台鐵在區間車發現了一個400萬元那原來是調查後發現原來是一名越南的外籍移工跟其他三名共犯一起經營的地下揮隊"},{"start":42.995,"end":64.105,"text":"那換匯的次數924次然後金額高達兩億三千萬這不是一筆小數目那我國合法的匯兌管道分別是銀行、中介公司跟金管會核准的五家專營外籍移工的小額匯兌公司"},{"start":66.758,"end":73.71,"text":"我們從數據上面看今晚會核准的這五家揮兌公司在2025年全年交易額是1291億"},{"start":77.359,"end":104.407,"text":"乍看之下很多但是你跟這四名這個嫌犯他們四名經營的這個地下換匯就可以高達兩億了所以難以想像說還有多少沒有被你們查到的這個數目有多大這個不用我想我從以前就非常關心這個議題那也詢問過主委要如何改善這樣子的情況但是目前看起來應該是效果還是很有限"},{"start":105.407,"end":128.017,"text":"那在這部分的監理應該是還有很大的空間可以進步只是一個案件就有兩億那四個人就可以做這樣子的一個規模那我們是否有掌握這個整體目前台灣的整體地下會對的黑市有多龐大主委可以說明一下嗎"},{"start":129.498,"end":149.394,"text":"謝謝委員我想在這邊也在呼籲因為我們這個匯兌業務是銀行法的特許事業違反是有非常重的刑責那當然金管會不是一個查緝單位但是我們也在這邊呼籲我們有匯款需要還是走合法的管道"},{"start":150.322,"end":168.453,"text":"那這裡當然這部分我們也會跟相關的檢調單位來合作針對這些不法的匯兌然後加強這些的查緝那當然我們也一方面也會考慮到市場所需像我們剛才我們陸續的開放5家外籍義工的匯款公司"},{"start":169.153,"end":189.144,"text":"也降低了他們的成本也增加可敬性比如他們都可以用數位的方式用APP就可以做到這些事情我想這部分我們會盡量來努力那犯罪行為當然要靠我們多方面來這個查緝那有沒有想過為什麼移工裡面冒險你是要進行這種的非法換匯他們的原因是什麼"},{"start":191.654,"end":209.004,"text":"這部分的話我想這個任何應該都是以他自己的比較利益來看當然我們也想說任何一個合法的單位他必須要受到監管我想這部分這個詳細的部分我們請銀行局我們時間有限大概就是他的你說剛剛說的這個"},{"start":210.925,"end":235.8,"text":"他的優勢吧 就是說相對利益 第一個就是費率可能比較好然後手續費比較低 然後比較方便嘛就大概是這三種 不然的話一般人不會寧願冒著這個犯法違法 甚至於被處罰甚至於這些所有辛辛苦苦打工賺的錢 結果變成不法的這樣子被凍結所以大概就是這三個問題 那還有一個就是說我們"},{"start":237.328,"end":262.276,"text":"監管會目前政府的這三個管道來講對移工來講比如說他去銀行換他都要上班啊那他銀行的時間他要上班他怎麼去他沒辦法去嘛那另外請託委託人力中介公司那人力中介公司是不是另外要跟他收手續費這部分就變成他的成本嘛那所以這個部分可能就考慮那另外你說手機APP這個部分確實是很方便"},{"start":263.537,"end":275.19,"text":"我們認為說這樣子就很方便如果假設台北市是這樣子台中市也一樣六度都一樣如果在偏鄉或者是說在一些比較"},{"start":276.516,"end":305.015,"text":"比較遠的一些工業區或者是一些農莊這樣子的情況他可能好幾公里都沒有一個便利店所以這對他們來講就很不方便甚至於說沒有辦法做到所以往往很多這個地方就會有一些非法換貨的業者只要有客群又有錢賺這我們都抓不到所以這種東西是沒有辦法根絕所以我想說主委可不可以提出一個具體改善的一個"},{"start":306.206,"end":321.792,"text":"譬如說方法還是說一個時程讓移工更還有就是說如何讓移工願意來使用我們政府為他們設計的這樣子一個換匯的一個管道這個才是重點吧對那個我請你講簡短回應一下"},{"start":325.01,"end":350.257,"text":"謝謝委員跟委員報告就是我們為了要讓外籍移工能夠使用更便宜更便利的管道我們的確已經有成立了5家這個外籍移工會的公司那我們過去的調查是這些公司他每一次的這個收的手續費大概是100塊左右所以相對來講是很便宜那剛才委員所講的相關的案例就是越南籍的移工那這個部分我們有跟勞動部有比對過相關的資訊"},{"start":351.857,"end":375.952,"text":"平均現在的外籍移工大概他在台灣賺100塊會匯回他的母國大概80塊到90塊那我們也發現大概像印尼、泰國、菲律賓等等他的確都是透過這五家來把賺的錢匯回去但相對來講越南會比較低的越南籍的移工利用我們這五家外籍移工匯兌匯回去的錢大概是100塊"},{"start":376.772,"end":405.418,"text":"他會60塊會透過我們這五家的外籍移工會的公司來做那顯然大概就是有20%到30%的錢他不會走這麼便宜這麼便利的一個管道那就業者回饋的意見是這個有可能也會涉及到母國對於外匯相對來講管制會不會比較嚴也就是說可能我們當地在越南的台商他有錢要匯回來但是不是那麼方便那這個就會有這個法規套利的空間"},{"start":406.679,"end":433.679,"text":"對 所以我們都知道原因嘛 對不對所以這減少的那兩成要用什麼樣的方法怎麼勸導 怎麼樣來制度的設計才有辦法讓它都合法 盡量的合法你相對跟印尼跟其他國家比較它有八成 可是你跟印尼跟越南一比就少到那兩成嘛這是你們取得的資訊那至於說還有一些黑數呢還有一些不知道的呢 對不對所以這個部分我想 其實"},{"start":434.64,"end":452.859,"text":"制度方法那重點就是說相對利益嘛方便然後手續會低對不對這個就是他們在意了嘛他來就是要賺錢他就是要多錢回去所以這個部分我想我們知道了原因那就是找出方法然後設計方法"},{"start":453.76,"end":475.84,"text":"所以委員的建議非常的具體啦我想這部分我們來去了解然後看看怎麼樣增加我們這些的便利性跟普及性然後來降低這個我們地下會對的這個誘因是是好謝謝主委那再請教我們這個經管會宣布強化保險業資安要求所以要設置資訊安全長這個"},{"start":478.422,"end":493.762,"text":"這個職務那從這個資產規模超過三千億的保險公司就必須設置治安長我想請教主委這個門檻三千億為什麼是三千億五千億還是六千億為什麼是三千億"},{"start":495.166,"end":510.201,"text":"因為我想這部分是我們在監理上的經驗我們覺得說其實一個公司如果來到了3000億基本上已經有一定的規模剛開始因為尤其治安的問題越來越重要一開始我們是希望它等於比較是這個"},{"start":511.843,"end":531.01,"text":"希望是他自己主動來設那當然我們希望說這部分已經成為金融韌性經營的非常重要的點那我們希望把這個門檻把它往下希望我們這個保險運營能夠強化他的治安因為至少有專人專責至少他至少就會更重視這件事情"},{"start":532.63,"end":557.901,"text":"對 因為現在大部分都已經高度的數位化這個保險商品都可以透過線上來做投保那也大量使用APP還有這些網站跟各種平台來做這些資料的管理但是後面就是像你剛剛提到的說保護的這些身份資料 財務資訊 保單內容甚至還包含一些醫療紀錄 健康資訊都是屬於極度敏感的一些個人資料"},{"start":558.701,"end":583.02,"text":"那如果發生治安事件就不只是一個帳戶的號碼的外洩它可能就是說影響層面很廣後續再衍生出來一些比如說像是詐騙然後各自的濫用這些都是我們民眾最擔心的所以整體的一個治安防護如何真的有效所以剛剛只有你提到這部分就是要非常注重"},{"start":584.261,"end":599.234,"text":"除了設置這個植物之外要如何有沒有定期的做一個資安的集合是由於我們自己金管會來主動的要求還是只是任由業者來自行管理"},{"start":599.574,"end":626.865,"text":"沒有我想他們自己在做這個部分他自己就有幾道的防線來做這件事情再來就是我們會有兩個一個就是我們例行性的精簡資安都是重點再來就是我們假設有發生資安事件的時候或疑慮我們就會有專案去做我想這部分除了他自己的內部的內控集合以外還有就是我們外部的監理也會來強化因為資安越來越重要其實我們最近對那個金融經營的韌性這部分的考慮越來越重"},{"start":627.165,"end":644.142,"text":"所以希望這個部分他們來強化對 外部監理我們就趕快要主動抽查這個部分對 是做這樣子的一個 還是說再委託第三方沒有 我們現在的話大部分都是由我們自己檢察局跟我們的業務局做這一樣的事情好的 謝謝主委謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167622","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167622","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053841d377dd780445752e56fd78df8e6504d1c9dfa77de2098a7c63afbaf1f10e85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:36:23 - 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先慢慢請金管會主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":17.517,"end":42.687,"text":"問一下有關於關稅談判對於金融的影響雖然說對等關稅川普的那個ART對等關稅已經被大法官宣布是違憲但是我看我們政府是講說之前談的有關於232的部分的條件都還要繼續232要繼續那當時的條件是說企業直接投資去美國2500億美金另外就是"},{"start":44.068,"end":50.734,"text":"政府的講法是說還有2500億的信用額度我想先確認一個資訊這個2500億美元的信用擔保額度是上限還是至少2500億美元"},{"start":61.085,"end":84.424,"text":"那個是他們談判據我所知因為這主政是國發會啦那我們只是配合去真的提供我們現在融資保證機制現有的融資保證機制的相關的工作方式所以這你不確定嘛 對不對沒有 這是因為國發會 你看國發會是說他要找金管會 經濟部 財政部一起來討論怎麼建立一個專案的信保機制所以理論上金管會應該要參與討論那國發會怎麼跟大家講的"},{"start":87.927,"end":115.127,"text":"到底這兩千五百億美元是上限還是至少兩千五百億的額度的額度對就是確定兩千五百億額度一定要達到嘛就是要提供這樣一個促進的基礎那所以換言之啊這兩千五百億美元應該是至少要兩千五百億美元啊它就不是上限因為上限的感覺是說我政府只要提供五百億也可以啊因為上限量我沒有超過上限就好一千億也可以啊都符合這個條件嘛"},{"start":115.567,"end":143.667,"text":"就是我們一個信保機制本來就有它的一個規模這個規模就是2500億可是這個主委我給你看一個這個是1月多當時簽MOU的時候美國商業部他們發的新聞稿它裡面有提到在直接投資就是至少2500億美金還有另外一個額外投資額外投資就是台灣要提供at least至少2500億美金的信用擔保"},{"start":144.81,"end":161.226,"text":"所以是2500億以上不是說要提供上限2500億所以我不太懂為什麼美國商業部發布的新聞資料有關於MOU的內容和台灣講的不一樣也有可能是美國錯啦我不知道啦但是這個資訊就不對嘛"},{"start":163.248,"end":178.895,"text":"那資訊不對但是你現在接收到的訊息是說應該就是2500億的規模不是說至少嘛但是我現在要講一件事情因為現在這個跟以前的中小企業的信用基金不太一樣嘛它現在是說由國發會"},{"start":181.018,"end":199.275,"text":"的專案召集大家然後要成立一個62.5美金到100億美金的這樣一個規模然後再加上乘數譬如說保證倍數是15到20倍等等等等希望能夠達到美國的要求但有沒有可能出現一個狀況"},{"start":200.646,"end":226.998,"text":"就是比如說體質比較良好的企業像台積電還有其他資中訊產業他們要去根本也不太需要信用擔保嘛因為他們本來自己就信用擔保就很好根本不用活花金金政府擔保甚至他可以直接發債也可以自己就直接就可以了嘛那有一些公司也許他沒有辦法提出擔保品然後可能銀行也不願意直接貸款給他他就比較需要用到這個信用擔保沒錯吧對那在這種情況之下"},{"start":228.539,"end":247.338,"text":"會來申請的可能就是風險比較高的企業然後本來如果沒有保證美國一定要到這個額度的話那銀行就可以看狀況政府可以看狀況我覺得有投資的潛力可能會賺錢我就給他沒有我就不給嘛大家可以再商言商但現在是美國要求一定要達到這個規模"},{"start":248.559,"end":273.367,"text":"我們就有壓力啊如果沒有到這個規模怎麼辦所以到時候一些企業看起來風險很高看起來也不會賺錢但我們因為已經承諾美國了所以呢拜託你來跟我貸款好不好我給你信用代保就拜託他就是變成要達到這個規模那這個就增加了很多政府的口罩機的風險還有這個因為這個也會你們也會邀請公股銀行跟民營的銀行來參加嘛"},{"start":274.867,"end":291.89,"text":"所以也會增加公共銀行跟民營銀行的風險所以有沒有可能會有這個狀況那金管會在這方面有沒有提出什麼因應之道就跟委員報告非常抱歉這個剛剛提到的都是我們沒辦法幫國發會跟您說明它的規劃的方向"},{"start":292.651,"end":322.011,"text":"不過你有沒有提出我剛剛講的這種風險因為這個是會對銀行產生影響嗎我們主要是提供我們過去在信保基金裡面的運作的方法以及對於這個信保的乘數這些的運作的模式提供一些專業的建議給他們那至於說政策的規劃包括關股的出資也是財政部在負責我想這部分是政府通力合作我們儘管會盡我們所做的事情剛剛委員問的問題我都沒辦法帶那個我會問你是因為你是管銀行的嗎"},{"start":322.651,"end":340.44,"text":"那如果你也覺得我剛剛講的那個風險有存在那難道不應該站在銀行的主管機關的立場參與這個會議的時候也可以提出這樣的意見嗎主動積極做事嘛而不是說他叫你幹嘛你就幹嘛嘛那當然我只是說剛才委員問的問題都不是我能夠代為回答的問題啦"},{"start":342.381,"end":344.785,"text":"我是希望你可以站在風險的考量提供一個建議跟解決之道啦"}]}},{"id":"167621","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167621","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605353be5f8fbee0840bf85a32efe0b6ef7a4d1c9dfa77de20981c0234b0a221b0dd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"丁學忠","委員發言時間":"11:35:04 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感謝召委 目前當局長請農業部陳部長部長好 委員好"},{"start":22.4,"end":28.421,"text":"當今年的這個匯金中資選輪到我時,股東剛好清靠,針對我們婚姻價值都下問題,那時候我跟他討論,剛才談到這個經濟委員會,來這裡來跟他討論,這兩天,我和鄧家君委員去投口,看到我們的善良,這個給湯海,從看起來,"},{"start":49.085,"end":52.527,"text":"就是這個紅地都來影響到我們這個蒜頭的生長現狀況這麼多,我們的蒜頭都已經枯黃,它的果都沒辦法生長,就是營養分沒辦法好接觸到果裡面,原來更小,所以當然有可能"},{"start":73.979,"end":77.665,"text":"如果正常修行有可能修行三千至三千五斤,正常有可能修行一千至一千五斤。但這個過分,我們都要說,要怎麼來協助農民。"},{"start":88.001,"end":108.162,"text":"第一點的部分就是說我們的大蒜其實是雲林非常重要的一個產業那在它收成的時候受到一些蟲害紅蜘蛛還有寄馬的影響那這個部分我想因為它還離收成前還有一個月還有機會救就是讓它持續的肥大那改良廠已經成立了一個輔導團隊去協助第二點就是說"},{"start":110.985,"end":136.986,"text":"相對的今年的面積有增加這是一點那增加的部分本身但是因為我們的產量可能有點減少所以整個的一個價格可能有一部分是去年的大蒜本身還有一些庫存進口的大蒜還有一些庫存那種種的因素導致現在目前的價格不是很穩定特別是這些行口的部分都比較不願意進場所以"},{"start":139.528,"end":154.572,"text":"以農業部的立場,我不會啟動任何的保駕收購因為保駕收購是一個退步的象徵但是我們會用其他的方式來協助業者協助農民去確保他的一個基本的一個收入跟價格"},{"start":158.933,"end":163.178,"text":"他代表你,在立法院那一頓,那時候他在那裡,他有給我告證說27個醫生,要來保駕收工現在5年,你來推翻到副市長,跟他在那裡頂頭,說你來做農民的公法我跟委員報告齁"},{"start":180.857,"end":187.001,"text":"胡市長在講的保分他基本上不是用保價收購是政府出名去收的我告訴你報告我告訴你報告"},{"start":201.638,"end":223.843,"text":"我的立場我絕對不會啟動保駕收購這個是任何委員或任何人要求都不會但是我會我會跟你請教為什麼你的立場不會買這個保駕收購我不會用保駕收購但是我會用其他的方式來協助其他的方式是什麼方式其他的方式我想我們很快就會來宣布我給你"},{"start":226.304,"end":231.205,"text":"講一個歷史,過去有一個屠刀,在選舉的時候有一個屠刀,屠刀的結果不好,那時候陳其中主委,他有發動在這裡,在這裡賺40塊的國家收工,他在這裡賺40塊的國家收工,為什麼?因為今年,我們進口量那麼大,"},{"start":248.87,"end":253.452,"text":"進球的運氣還那麼多 比較遲到跟銅牌 價值又那麼高結果我們在幫助農民的不是高價收購 我們是用另外一種進球我跟吳元博說 你說的土豆 你還回去說 因為你講起我來講 當年的108年的花生的收購變成花生之亂 變成說 進屋在收的時候 裡面有土角"},{"start":277.583,"end":282.545,"text":"有已經發霉的花生所以用保駕收工是最好的相對我現在在說這是過去人有這樣做過所以當你的年紀你沒有希望保駕收工我尊重我尊重我也希望你也要想一個進程我們有其他的配套"},{"start":297.529,"end":299.932,"text":"還有一個最重要的,我這幾天一直接到電話,就是農民靠外農民,你告訴我,我們這個未來的收工絕對不可以這個高潮的經濟是要直接到農民那裡,不可以到外鄉那裡"},{"start":313.928,"end":331.514,"text":"其實我們可以基礎在這個天然災害構造以這個各專屬的面積或是各專屬的面積我們直接下去構造下去在農民那裡我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟農民報告我跟"},{"start":339.357,"end":344.319,"text":"接下來的問題不是直接給錢給農民啦因為錢給農民就會變成之前的花生之亂所以我會用其他的方式來協助讓這個價格能夠穩定這個措施很快就會公布了這個很快就會公布了不是啊 你要大家討論好事不然我會當當一個公告下去跟他們起到整個市場大亂"},{"start":364.666,"end":379.047,"text":"我跟委員報告我們的改良中我們的農糧數的分數包括我本身很多農民都有跟我聯絡所以這個部分我想我們提出來的方案應該可以做一些價格穩定的措施"},{"start":379.628,"end":383.233,"text":"好,這樣再請國長,我們如果這個方式最好,先可以讓我們知道一下我們會盡快的會公告好,稍後,我們育農民會看你委員席,這樣好不好?對,我剛剛說的,一定是照顧我們農民好,謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167620","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167620","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053c234c5be83045d676c6d05596fd77c734d1c9dfa77de2098328f139af069e70d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"11:30:11 - 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歡迎加入外委會謝謝委員長這剛剛我們本來也要問這個易南的正名問題不過我想剛剛徐小青委員問得非常清楚委員長的回答也算蠻清楚的希望有這樣子的一個特案處理的機制可以服務更多的僑民那空一點時間我剛剛有稍微聽一下質詢剛剛方才這個執政黨委員在質詢的時候這委員長好像要幫自己的員工叫屈啊說因為總預算的關係健保要停保然後有一些人薪水拖欠"},{"start":40.216,"end":45.282,"text":"這我再給你一次機會真的有這樣的狀況嗎應該這樣講健保的部分是因為2024年大法官釋憲後那這個停保制度就沒有辦法持續沒有停保的問題嘛不可能我要講清楚一點"},{"start":55.515,"end":71.42,"text":"停保是這樣過去我們駐外人員在海外的時候他們就國內不用再保是保海外的保但是從2025年起他們就全部都要加保包括那個券保也都要加那就變成額外的費用所以這一塊後來行政院就統一決定說由我們行政部門來編列預算幫他們付保費那去年的保費呢基本上我們是用我們人事的結餘款因為在2024我們就來不及編了所以是用人事結餘款以及特別費不是特別費啦"},{"start":85.964,"end":108.782,"text":"反正就是有辦法雲芝嘛對不對今年對付過去了對不對那如果是加薪的部分如果有通過的這個不會積欠對嘛所以要把獎金不是加薪啦不是加薪我說錯了是說值等調整的那個不會積欠值等調整的薪水調整沒有這個問題嘛對不對你好好澄清不要人事是不受這個預算法規定的這個限制健保的部分我也提醒委員長這個稍早立法院通過的718億的新興計畫裡面都有含在裡面的"},{"start":113.626,"end":141.111,"text":"沒有吧沒有所以是可以所以是可以動手沒有真的我也沒有含貨這一塊沒有真的沒有好沒關係啊這個我是覺得這個要把話講清楚如果你真的有需要的話你把健保這個部分你如果是還有我們海外信保基金的一部分海外海外會相關的部分你會後提供一份完整的資料因為你如果有實際上的需求的話大家要提新計劃特案特案動資的話我們在野黨倒是不會反對啦是是那我們不希望這個題目變政治化的處理啦"},{"start":141.311,"end":154.703,"text":"好我們回到我們今天主要問的主題還是希望盡快婦委審查啦因為已經115年的3月了嘛好 我們也希望軍人加薪趕快執行啦對不對好 我要問今天的主題啦一樣是跟僑生流用相關的這樣子的一個題目這個其實簡單來說啊"},{"start":158.346,"end":185.2,"text":"這包含國民黨黨團過去一段時間開的記者會而講所謂的有在學學工的狀況嘛就變很多人來其實是為了變相的變成所謂的黑工也好或是怎麼樣雖然部分解決了缺工的問題但那其實不是一個正規的一個手段那在學學工就算了那畢業之後就回國這才是大問題嘛來委員長這個我們目前以喬生來講就好因為喬委會主管喬生嘛喬生畢業之後首份工作留在台灣的比例大概是多少"},{"start":187.276,"end":209.711,"text":"去年我們大院才正式修法通過這也是經過我們過去五年的努力就是早期的僑生要留台幾乎很難因為沒有配套機制所以大部分的僑生除非他馬上找到高薪的工作或是他自己創業了所以包括像群聯這樣子的一個角色我就問他說"},{"start":211.912,"end":234.965,"text":"你為什麼當時要創業他說如果我不創業我就無法留在台灣了所以委員比例大概是多少早期的人數少所以合定的這個能夠留下來的也少正如老師講所以那時候比例三成我一點都不意外因為沒有配奧措施而且最重要的他不是等到畢業他才沒有留台是因為他在就讀過程當中的第一年第二年他就退場了是啊"},{"start":236.306,"end":249.064,"text":"所以我也了解那個機制剛剛黃雁銘委員問過同樣的問題數字到底比例是多少現在去年開始有到八成了去年開始有到八成了工作坊三年之後繼續留在台灣比例是多少"},{"start":249.929,"end":276.878,"text":"工作滿三年因為還沒有新的制度實施還沒有滿三年所以你認為制度修正之後就可以徹底解決這樣問題嗎會改善很多天下雜誌人才永續頻道有進行一次不好意思我跟委員補充天下雜誌他當時引用的資料事實上有很多錯誤的地方或者是很久以前的案子而且他弄錯的對象是錯的因為我們境外生有很多種"},{"start":279.113,"end":307.732,"text":"這種課程裝班還有僑生有外生沒關係我們一段一段來梳理是是是把問題問完嘛當時大部分的僑外生來台灣都希望可以取得長期居留甚至是工作的一個機會但實際上大概按照他的說法大概有八成的部分是沒有辦法順利留才當然嘛第一個調查的時間可能早了一點我講你現在有所謂的心智但我想很多結構性的問題才是發生這樣子問題的主因嘛結構友善才能保障權益大家都講說我們希望保障僑外生的權益"},{"start":308.312,"end":328.829,"text":"但前提是結構要友善如果這個結構不友善換言之 喬艾森要留台的門檻太高的時候那他的權益反而沒辦法確保他反而會助長很多人想說反正你既然未來畢業之後要就業的難度很高所以我才會有一些人開始動歪腦筋就是說那我在就學的時候我就開始搞些有的沒的"},{"start":329.329,"end":349.96,"text":"所以就會出現在學學工畢業回國這樣一個狀況好那現在結構的問題我現在跟你探討結構的問題第一個是企業的聘僱意願恐怕是不太高而且資本額的限制是問題的嘛現在僑外生畢業之後大概除非說我走專業人才留用機制嘛也就是說碩士以上學歷或者是四萬七千塊以上的薪水好這樣一個狀況我就走專業人才聘用這個"},{"start":351.501,"end":372.841,"text":"雖然聽起來沒什麼問題但實際上使用的比例是低的大部分人走的所謂的評點配合制度嘛也就是說按照學歷、心智能他等於是打分數嘛分數過關之後可以來處理門檻比較低也是比較多僑生、外生比較想要採用的這樣一個方式但問題是這個評點配合制度好像有一些門檻在嘛還有企業聘用本身的門檻"},{"start":373.742,"end":387.588,"text":"就我的本席的了解啦這個雇主的資本額啊可能要到五百萬元以上等等但委員長你也知道嘛對不對你也做過基層民意代表的工作有很多服務業的他可能達不到啦就全台灣百分之九十九是中小企業或者他全年營業額一千萬啦兩種條件啦十一就可以了但是我也很知道現實狀況我也跟這些企業談過其實他們有些人是這樣子因為他我不知道"},{"start":398.932,"end":418.824,"text":"不好方便在公開方面說明啦我可能私下再跟您說明一些真實情況你要私下跟我說明真實情況你就公開講就好啦不是 有什麼壓力嗎如果他是登記五百萬資本額這個沒有什麼意義但是通常是年營業額一千萬怎麼算對 怎麼算的問題他們有些人因為低報了啦我簡單講就是低報了我理解那因為他低報了意思是他就沒有資格去申請"},{"start":427.93,"end":433.735,"text":"就是這個問題這就是結構問題嘛這個是因為大家有時候總是想要鑽對他自己有利的這個方向嘛所以有一好沒有二好我們政府是公平的所以它形成一種硬性門檻嘛其實不管是資本五百萬這五年來的問題問我好不好好好好"},{"start":445.365,"end":463.978,"text":"資本額500萬元或者是營業額1000萬元以上其實就跟很多重要企業 而且重要企業尤其缺工它其實出現了一些背離的所以委員我們有送這些 國發會有送法案進來就是說希望讓中階人才的這個禁用可以放寬以後不再受評點制評點制未來也會走入歷史了這就是我們現在在努力的目標"},{"start":468.241,"end":493.321,"text":"因為有評點制跟過去的門檻比較高門檻高的時候很多企業就認為說我要讓你過關或什麼他就形成有特殊照顧他形成一種勞資結構的一種不對等那加上喬生都希望取得永居嘛等等那取得永居在取得永居之前的工作經驗等等他其實跟其他人就是一致的這個就比較沒有問題嘛那再來就第三個是這個求職期間啦這個過去啦當然你新的制度有修正嘛我現在給你兩年的一個寬限期"},{"start":493.821,"end":509.164,"text":"讓你在過程中也可以打工可以有一個正常生活的一個水準對但是如果我們的核心問題不解決核心問題也就是說真正邁進到正式就業的這個門檻太高的話是延長兩年打工就跟你再學工意思是一樣的沒有錯"},{"start":510.165,"end":537.335,"text":"所以我今天要講的是你還是要解決根本問題跨部會的橫向溝通去把這個門檻做合理的放寬你要去了解這個缺工的地方在哪裡嘛如果缺工的地方就在中小校裡面你們哪有空我們的想法一模一樣所以我過去四五年期間一直不斷的跟其他部會做了這個溝通了所以喬惠會基本上贊成這個方向對不對我們一直是贊成而且國防會也同戰如流有聽及我們的意見所以他的修法方向我這個地方哪些部會反對"},{"start":537.955,"end":560.897,"text":"沒有人反對沒有人反對那怎麼那麼久現在是因為立法院沒有排案啊我說你在前面溝通你講你講好幾次好幾年對不對我溝通很多年了我現在建議是這樣子啊為了要讓不管是未來法案審查也好或者是說你自己在內部溝通也好或者是怎麼樣更清楚僑委會現在有沒有建立離台僑生的追蹤調查機制"},{"start":561.818,"end":589.936,"text":"你要長時間服務這麼多喬生然後有些人留著有些人離開離開了過去很多你講你要看新制執行的一些成效等等那你總要了解一下離開的原因吧有沒有這樣子的離台追蹤調查有 現在有開始了因為早期我們的喬生整體的資料都是控管在教育部像我負責的部分呢如果是從我的招生專案進來的我會掌握如果不是我招生專案進來的我就不一定掌握"},{"start":590.636,"end":609.113,"text":"所以境外生有些我沒有掌握但是現在我要跟委員報告我們有進步了我們有跟教育部協調說是不是所有境外生資料境外生就包含僑生跟外籍生這個統一的資料庫我們可不可以去幫忙追蹤所以我們現在確實有在啟動追蹤機制只要在台灣有正式畢業"},{"start":615.239,"end":641.856,"text":"我不會要求你一定要全部都那個因為它有跨部會的問題但是至少僑生的部分嘛會會會僑生的部分是是是僑生我們就簡單的開始你可以完全掌握的開始是是是也就是僑生的留也好離也好的最終調查期只要是離開了我一定會追蹤他好 你剛才提供哪一些相關的資料我如果講說你已經開始了還是去年開始追蹤了對 去年開始追蹤了好 那你就把第一次去年開始追蹤到去年什麼時候開始去年年初還是去年年底我們年中才開始的年中才開始"},{"start":644.102,"end":671.541,"text":"專班學生的部分我們可以提供你現在手上到什麼樣或者是要到執行一個階段有一個資料的時候你提供一下給外國會委員做一下參考嘛當然是針對僑害生的權益啊如何來做確保第二個也可以讓國內的溝通更加的迅速嘛我們把它放寬一些門檻讓他們的就業會留下來解決台灣的缺口問題好嗎委員我就必須要補充一點就是因為我們新舊制正在一個交替的過程這個我願意理解所以我講你說有新制度所以我剛才問你嘛是從什麼時候開始的嘛"},{"start":672.501,"end":685.71,"text":"如果你是今年年初或去年年底才開始因為說法是去年八月通過的嘛對 所以我們才開始做你抓一個時間啦 也就是半年的一個初期的執行報告留下來追蹤機制的初步報告我們來看看有什麼樣可以精進優化的地方啦 好不好好的 謝謝 好 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Act的那個經費的需求目前的那個規劃進度到哪裡了"},{"start":37.328,"end":52.04,"text":"跟委員報告現在目前研議會已經有把相關的計畫已經收到那我們正在辦理中那你可以告訴的告訴國人嗎現在在整個援助民主健康的這個議題我們研議會的角色在哪裡"},{"start":53.227,"end":72.947,"text":"現在因為在嚴明會底下我們社會福利處那有三個科 其中一個就是衛生保健科那主要的任務大概就是我們在健保健保費的一個補助當中針對10歲以下 55歲以上 六列二目的部分那這塊是由嚴明會這邊來去做指引"},{"start":75.269,"end":100.854,"text":"還有一些針對一些街頭病完治獎金另外我們在長照方面的話我們也針對應用長照基金也卸衛福部我們在從105年開始從121站現在已經增加到532站我們服務的族人在各個部落當中總共有1萬8千多人每天都是在量血壓"},{"start":102.695,"end":128.816,"text":"讓我們的主任也有一個很好的一個健康管理的一個行為大概重點是這樣子關於交通補助費的部分呢交通補助費現在目前是編載衛福部的衛福部嗎對所以你最主要的部分就是看的健保費還有我們文件站的這個部分是OK好那謝謝我們羅署長的回答請回那我們有請國衛院院長"},{"start":135.68,"end":156.299,"text":"委員長好很高興您能夠親自來因為第一次見到您然後我也知道國務院擔任了非常重要的角色尤其在原子民主健康資料這個部分那我昨天有詢問我們的部長說可能每年有2500萬的經費到那我想再確認一下是每年都會有嗎還是每幾年會有還是怎麼樣"},{"start":157.59,"end":175.159,"text":"跟委員報告,從這個2023年12月29號國會院正式成立援助民族的健康研究中心到現在每一年部裡面事實上都寬列預算給國會院來進行這個我們研究中心的各項任務的進行"},{"start":176.445,"end":195.954,"text":"他說從賴總統的健康台灣願景中的三高防治888計畫與癌症防治計畫這個希望能夠從全國的健康資料裡面來勾結我們原住民健康資料那我想知道這個部分的資料的收集有沒有完全還是說還在進行中是 跟委員報告那我們從這個"},{"start":198.052,"end":222.846,"text":"研究中心成立以後我們就組織了一個研究的一個資育委員會那目前17位委員裡面大概有八成以上都是我們原住民族的各領域的專家醫師跟學者那我們在從事一般的這些健康資料庫的建置的時候我們特別強調文化的敏感度所以我們就在各面向諮詢我們的這些委員"},{"start":223.746,"end":251.025,"text":"那目前我們希望成立一個可以長期追蹤而且是多面向可以做分析的一個援助民族的生命歷程的健康資料庫那從延續我們過去從1998年開始的健保相關的資料庫我們希望可以納入更多的包括死因包括癌症包括疫苗的接種也包括這些未來的這些相關的跟"},{"start":251.906,"end":274.852,"text":"就學就醫相關的其他部會的資料我們可以整合在一起很好就說我們希望能夠整合健保醫療利用長照慢性病死因啊偏鄉的醫師人力跟文化照護服務的關鍵資料然後整合成一個政策是不是目前有一個政策的一個優先的順序嗎還是你們已經有產生一個政策的導引給我們的部長參考"},{"start":276.198,"end":301.554,"text":"是 那目前我們這一年多來就是說諮詢了這些委員我們針對12個主要的議題包括這些醫療照護包括長照包括慢性病包括癌症包括口腔的衛生等等我們有12個重要的面向那目前希望可以透過更深入的這個研究所以經過兩次的計畫的徵集我們目前有6個計畫要開始執行"},{"start":304.276,"end":320.602,"text":"這個六個計畫的主持人或共同主持人必須要有原住民族的身份那我感謝國會的努力我相信在你們的努力之下還有我們的監督之下希望把這項工作做好那我會持續關注這個議題那謝謝院長親自到場謝謝謝謝委員好 請衛福部長請部長"},{"start":329.858,"end":341.715,"text":"部長就講一個比較我們就開始講到比較細節的問題了那我剛看了就是說偏鄉地區的一個健保署回答一下就是我剛看醫療"},{"start":346.044,"end":374.164,"text":"缺乏的地區的範圍裡面我看竟然沒有高雄市高雄市我看了一下我在我常常經過的地方我覺得特別偏遠的地方比如說六龜還有甲仙那為什麼這兩個區沒有在我們的醫療缺乏的地區因為它是鄰近我們納瑪下桃園最近的那個平地鄉如果說平地區那如果說我們這兩個區塊"},{"start":375.765,"end":394.365,"text":"完全沒有醫療服務的時候其實要藉助甲仙跟六龜可是甲仙跟六龜如果他本身也是醫療缺乏地區的話這個部分要怎麼去補足委員指的是說什麼就是說他們的醫療要去看病啊急救啊其實在"},{"start":395.612,"end":425.003,"text":"在我們納瑪下跟桃園地區可能相對不利因為他們可能只有一個點比如說衛生所可是比如說他為了要就近他會到甲仙跟六龜可是甲仙跟六龜他明明他也是醫療缺乏的地區那如果說這個這個重點沒有被看看到的話沒有資源更多給他們的時候我們鄰近的族人要去的時候他們也是去一個醫療缺乏的地區啊我的意思是這樣是說沒有列入那個嗎對啊他沒有列入甲仙跟六龜沒有列入"},{"start":426.813,"end":455.703,"text":"跟委員報告我們健保在列入偏鄉事實上每一季都會有提案我們會盤點這個醫療資源跟當地的居民的人數我們剛委員提到這兩處我們回去再做盤點我們每一季每一季都有持續列入的那再跟委員補充事實上不是只有偏鄉是挹注偏鄉醫療資源醫事室那邊有以外光是健保署就有三個一個是委員知道的燈塔型醫院那另外一個就是IDS第三個是醫缺醫不足的巡迴診"},{"start":456.443,"end":481.553,"text":"所以總共有三個地方為什麼會特別講到這個就是因為要洗腎可能就要到這兩個地區因為我們納瑪夏跟桃園就是沒有洗腎的床那我是希望能夠特別重視它鄰近的這個平地鄉的一個平地區的一個醫療的規模讓我們鄰近的族人如果要到那個地方的時候又找不到可以去洗腎或者是說進一步的治療的地方我認為是這樣第二個就是"},{"start":482.253,"end":498.479,"text":"我們的養成計畫已經這麼久了可是我還是會聽到有些它非醫師類的比如說它是藥師或者是護理師結果它找不到地方可以服務比如說因為它可能因為是縣市政府它把關了一些人士的一個缺口"},{"start":498.999,"end":525.148,"text":"那他認為這個是在地方的人事權不過他已經受完訓練了他也要償還公費了他卻苦無沒有地方可以服務我覺得這個我們明明是我們衛福部去訓練的或者說我們公費的這些養成計劃的學生你不能讓他沒有地方可以服務啊所以我是覺得說你們應該去盤點有多少個畢業生拿到執照以後他確實找不到地方服務你們要擔下這個責任來幫他們找"},{"start":526.528,"end":549.583,"text":"好跟委員說明我們確實也發現到有一些在地養成的因為他的第一順位是要回到他本來的原鄉但是因為如果沒有缺因為可能之前的服務的還沒有期滿或者是繼續留下來了那他就沒有缺出來那我們就會有第二順位第三順位可能會逐步的擴大到其他的這個"},{"start":550.644,"end":565.815,"text":"偏鄉 人力不足的地方然後或者是我們的部立醫院所以當然我們有一些順位啦至少讓他有地方可以去啦當然才有燈塔醫院嘛 對不對也可以去還有我們的我們再盤點一下因為我們大概是"},{"start":566.716,"end":588.611,"text":"半年會盤點一次看有哪些缺不過我想說如果找不到的就直接來跟我們報導上次有提過就是有些公費醫師他想要去居家醫療型態的診所服務我希望他能夠也列入可以償還公費的一個選項因為之前有這樣提過我們也列在這個priority裡頭"},{"start":590.532,"end":610.288,"text":"那還有一個IDS值班的地點因為永遠都是在衛生所可是其實衛生所是相對醫療的那個比較豐富的地方為什麼怎麼說呢因為很多開業意會顯在人多的地方比如說像山地門的話它就會開在可能開在水門或是開在什麼我的意思是說"},{"start":611.109,"end":640.661,"text":"因為都沒有去檢討IDS的晚上的值班地點所以它的地點永遠都一樣所以缺乏的地方永遠缺乏比如說我們里那裡它是一個八八風災移居的一個區塊它居住了三個鄉的一個原住民主人口在那裡結果變成是遠變成是全國最大的地區還有我們長治百合可是IDS的那個點它就不是在那裡所以它應該是要有一個所謂的彈性也就是說我們不能只限定說IDS值班的地點是"},{"start":641.841,"end":659.426,"text":"陰性規定是在那裡應該讓衛生局所去盤點說哪一些鄉鎮或者是說區域或是部落是需要晚上夜間值班的地方而不是永遠都在那個地方stand by然後永遠都沒有病人來或者說該需要服務的人沒有服務到"},{"start":660.587,"end":678.525,"text":"我們今年那個IDS檢討的時候我就請健保邀請那個衛生局來表示意見看他有沒有需要調整的點這樣按照那個地方上的需求來調整最後因為時間的關係我還是講到巴士量表因為我曾經因為這樣的事情召集過衛福部還有"},{"start":679.225,"end":705.743,"text":"明明會到辦公室來聊因為我們的平均餘命就是差到七歲左右嘛可是就因為這樣的一個差距我們沒有做adjustment所以我希望至少七十五歲或是至少有一個降低對原住民來講當然不是每一個原住民可以請得起可是當他有這個需求的時候應該就因為他的民族的關係而得到這方面的一個你提的是說八十歲以上免八十兩表希望那個年齡下降對原住民好我們來我們"},{"start":708.144,"end":724.392,"text":"我們來提建議給勞動部啦因為我有問過勞動部長 勞動部長說這是衛福部的事情所以我們要提建議啦所以我那時候叫跨部會的一個協調好不好發布的時候要他們發布 但是我們來提建議建議按照這個年齡的這個餘命的落差來做調整我們來發這個公文給勞動部 建議他"},{"start":734.356,"end":739.502,"text":"對那個元敏的話他的那個免84陽表的那個年齡往下修看看是不是到75這樣謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167618","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167618","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605314afc0a2f144da3252e56fd78df8e6504d1c9dfa77de2098b67cecec6b19759e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林思銘","委員發言時間":"11:24:45 - 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荷姆斯海峽被封鎖"},{"start":23.422,"end":45.571,"text":"所有的運油運氣的這些油輪出入都受到影響所以國際油價是持續在攀升我們看到昨天國際油價攀升的情況紐約商品交易所西德州的終極原油4月的交割價上漲2.9%報價每桶是96.2億美元那個敦北海"},{"start":51.693,"end":67.942,"text":"敦北海布倫特原油五月交割價上漲3.2%收在每桶103.42美元穩居100美元以上我們看到目前我們政府對於油價採取的措施是動漲"},{"start":69.403,"end":84.091,"text":"但是這只是短期的因應做法中長期我們面對國際能源價格的壓力將來高機率會補漲回來各產業的生產成本一定會增加面對消費者物價指數的影響"},{"start":85.992,"end":103.501,"text":"主計總署昨天也保守的估計會影響0.24個百分點我們看到政期局副局長黃仲豪在3月12日指出將會秉持安全透明公平的三個原則及尊重市場機制來監控市場"},{"start":104.844,"end":129.645,"text":"那我們來面對未來生產成本的上漲但消費力道可能減弱各個產業的獲利也可能降低啊金管會你是否有預見這樣一個情況對於未來股市的前景會有怎麼樣的影響金管會是否有任何的因應的備案除了秉持我們這個所謂的安全透明公平三個原則以及尊重市場的機制"},{"start":130.606,"end":155.792,"text":"我們這樣子能夠足夠面對未來的一個情勢的變化嗎謝偉我想今天早上很多很多人都關心這個問題我剛才提到就是說其實在過去資本市場在過去這一年以來從4月2號關稅開始到現在還有加上這個地緣政治衝突包括這一次其實上都帶來對我們資本市場很大的影響"},{"start":156.812,"end":179.088,"text":"那每一次的情況不一樣有些可能很快就結束那這個東西對我們長期經濟的影響就比較比較明確的就落底確定我想資本市場最怕的就是不確定因素那只要任何不確定因素呢就影響投資人的預期這個預期呢就是等於說我們市場機制來做一個消化跟判斷"},{"start":180.73,"end":196.002,"text":"主委我打斷一下你現在講得非常正確因為這一次的美伊戰爭可能就是何時會結束就是處在一個不確定的狀態所以對於未來股市的影響它的力道多大"},{"start":196.943,"end":212.894,"text":"那我們金管會或者是政區局有沒有做過什麼預估除了剛才講的這三個所謂的秉持安全透明公平的原則以及尊重市場機制這三個原則以外金管會還有其他的因應措施嗎"},{"start":213.795,"end":231.003,"text":"我想說這因應措施不會因為這件事情而來但是就是說我們會因為這件事情來檢視我們對於這個應對的方式就剛才前面委員問到就是說比如這次的以這次事件來看比如他比較樂觀很多人說他很快就結束了"},{"start":231.903,"end":246.648,"text":"像前一次的以疫衝突一樣第二次就是可能他會拖著就跟像美國宣稱的大概四個禮拜一個月左右這些短期 中期 長期都有相關的因應的一個措施囉"},{"start":247.188,"end":264.707,"text":"因為這些都是因齁比如說它如果持續下去了那果是什麼那果就是說因為資本市場遲早要反應它基本面嘛就剛才委員提到就是說假設油價持續如果短期性的話很快就消耗掉就沒了但是如果持續下去成本會增加就剛才提到主力總輸出的"},{"start":265.948,"end":290.563,"text":"所以我們比如今年預估7.71可能超過100塊以上就會對於未來產生多覽影響那當然也會影響到未來上市櫃公司他們營收的這樣的可能性和獲利那這樣我們投資人就會去反映他未來對這個東西的預期會反映在資本市場上我想這個部分各種的情境我們都有做過設想以及相關要怎麼樣的因應"},{"start":291.983,"end":306.27,"text":"是那個主委是否我們應該強化市場的監理與異常交易的監控如果股市萬一波動很大的話這個異常交易你們是不是要加強監控還有第二個你們是不是要穩定市場的信心"},{"start":308.111,"end":321.62,"text":"我覺得除了剛才三個原則以外我想這些部分你們都應該要去做而且我們要強化上市櫃公司資訊的揭露讓投資人知道整個重大成本的變動及時揭露給我們投資人"},{"start":327.544,"end":342.077,"text":"對 就是我們會請交易所比如說這時候我們會充分的揭露各種的財業物狀況就像我們前 那委員提到的埔益指數也要告訴大家我想這個都會做啦 都會做 好那另外主委 今年我們詐騙集團啊"},{"start":343.638,"end":360.772,"text":"我們看到詐騙集團大量利用無卡提款進行車手的提款與金流的轉移造成民眾重大的財產損失我想無卡提款雖然提供便利但也成為詐騙集團提款的重要管道"},{"start":361.733,"end":377.583,"text":"所以金管會是否會要求銀行降低這些無卡提款的限額建立異常提款的延遲機制並導入AI金流監控並與警方建立及時的通報機制以有效防堵這些詐騙的金流"},{"start":380.149,"end":383.731,"text":"我們有持續在跟委員報告因為詐騙的手法不斷的翻新但是我們會很快的根據這個做經驗的分享就比如說我們現在銀行公會裡面有個防詐委員會我們也責成他"},{"start":400.74,"end":425.415,"text":"要針對任何的新的東西要趕快的去做經驗的分享這部分提供一些比如說主詐的作為我想剛剛講的都是我們現在日常都在做其實我們現在看到無卡提款它的一個手法它的手法就是詐騙集團它透過手機取得無卡提款的這個密碼那車手就到ATM快速提領現金"},{"start":427.296,"end":449.91,"text":"就是不需要提款卡他取款的速度就很快車手也難以追查所以成為詐騙集團常用的一個提款方式所以面對這種本來給大家便利的結果詐騙集團利用這樣的一個無卡提款的一個便利性成為詐騙的一個方式一個手段所以這種新興的詐騙手段"},{"start":451.371,"end":474.624,"text":"那金管會你們未來要如何的去防堵其實我們現在初步是這樣啦因為像這種無卡提款的便利越便利的話越容易做的這樣我們現在是請他訂一個上限像比如說我們看到有些銀行是每筆頂多兩萬一天就三萬塊當然這個就是只有治標沒治本但是我們就說針對各種不同型態我們有因應再來看看這個作為"},{"start":475.985,"end":493.821,"text":"會不會有什麼樣的一個問題有沒有有效性既然有人利用這個東西我們就會把它主委我這樣啦本席提出一個要求就是對於這種新型態的犯罪手法監管會是否能夠研擬一個有效防止的一個手段或者方法"},{"start":494.621,"end":516.559,"text":"針對無卡提款的部分來研擬一個有效的一致的一個方案那請就可不可以在兩個禮拜內提供給肯錫以及我們這個財委會剛剛局長跟我講這個已經請工會在研議了我想說就是按照時間這把那個內容我再提供給委員很快可以提出來"},{"start":518.57,"end":534.55,"text":"另外這個最後一個問題啊 主委我們看到最近媒體報導從2024年到現在我們不到65歲的組長級的以上人員有10個人提前退休或轉職而且是跨局處 包含檢察局 銀行局以及證據局"},{"start":536.532,"end":557.799,"text":"請問主委,這樣大量的人事異動,你認為主要的原因是什麼?我想有一個很有趣的問題就是我們的退府制度以去年12月31日為例,假設你是大概60年次以內的同仁如果你沒有在去年12月31日退的話,你必須要等到60歲才能夠領"},{"start":559.512,"end":582.167,"text":"這個月退這樣讓很多的同仁他重新考慮他的職涯是那這個是我們退伍的影響那另外一個是這個他本來在他人生規劃就沒有做到65歲他就提前可能在半年或一年前退休這種東西其實所以說你認為我覺得媒體在報導這個東西把所有各種不同的狀況這樣做"},{"start":583.188,"end":602.158,"text":"你有注意到啊,你有注意到媒體的報導都是我的好同事們,我當然有注意到所以我覺得這個東西用單純數量的相加就得到一個結論其實我想這是其實那個主委,媒體當然媒體的報導他講主要的因素是因為包含過勞與職業而失落所致的"},{"start":603.078,"end":618.72,"text":"他們很具體的認為敘述的原因是說我們許多的職員或主管花費許多的時間在像是做粉專的發文應付大任的會議整理懶人包等等"},{"start":620.342,"end":646.17,"text":"所以這些因素是不是導致他們離職的主要因素因為我自己在過去也是基層公務員起來那雖然在學校教書二十幾年再過來我覺得現在我必須替所有的公務同仁們講一句話確實現在的工作確實挑戰很大那我覺得大家都是靠著一股熱忱跟這些在我想這個不是主要的原因我想主要是整個"},{"start":646.63,"end":666.926,"text":"那我也做一個要求就希望金管會在一個月之內提出完整的我們人才流失報告的檢討還有我們流財與改革的具體方案我想這沒問題但是我在這邊澄清金管會這部分我們現在你要提報告我們意見但是你要求他們做那麼多的報告就是他們工作身家的原因"},{"start":667.606,"end":686.311,"text":"不會啦 這個很簡單啦就只會把剛才葛羅講的這個具體的提出來我想還是要有所要求啦我想藉這個機會我也給所有金管會同仁跟我們周邊單位加油打氣我們不會因為受到這邊報導而影響我想大部分我們還是盡心盡力全力衝刺努力加油啦 OK 好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167617","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167617","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605344cc5dfc6b2b811cf85a32efe0b6ef7a4d1c9dfa77de2098bb524b8c4a361c385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴瑞隆","委員發言時間":"11:26:25 - 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所以我們還是期待就是說總預算不能選擇性的通過一定要有問題我們願意在委員會這邊跟委員做溝通部長這個也要不斷的對外說明因為其實包括地方的農民包括地方所有重大的建設都一直在等待這些那個那建設其實是國家整體一體的啦那如果遲遲的卡住的話"},{"start":90.41,"end":111.764,"text":"因為立法院沒有省預算辭職而卡住那讓整個建設地方的一些受到影響的話我想這個大家並不樂見所以我覺得這個要不斷的讓消費客去抓而且最後其實總的責任職任團隊會面臨到相當大的壓力那為什麼不能做那我再問一下如果這些總預算只是我辭職都沒有通過的話我們還有什麼樣的手段可以來做"},{"start":112.324,"end":133.954,"text":"我想我們是毫無手段特別是我舉個例子沒有手段我們現在目前本身的養豬有沒有轉型的部分我們在去年非洲豬瘟的時候還缺了一些十幾億的錢那這個十幾億的錢一定會用到災損金或第二預備金那總預算不能通過的話災損金第二預備金都不能用這個呢這個沒辦法先動用也沒辦法先動用"},{"start":135.234,"end":147.546,"text":"這個就是一個很大的一個很實際的案例所以我還是希望大院這邊監控委員如果這個沒辦法動用的話會實質上是什麼樣的影響我想沒辦法動用的時候相對的這個轉型本身"},{"start":148.737,"end":168.808,"text":"走到一半就會卡住了因為後續我想我們政府對於農民的承諾一定是在的我們本來是要明年完全要完成年底年底就要完成全部都改成是是不能夠再走廚餘的程度特別是大家關心的租價的問題如果說沒有一些穩定的措施的時候那個租價是沒辦法維持"},{"start":169.568,"end":186.806,"text":"所以租價甚至於甚至於也會增加的還有其他的產交調節的部分都會增加很多委員關心的產交調節的部分如果沒有經費到位的時候是沒辦法處理的所以這幾個問題恐怕請部長都要再加強對外說明同時也加強跟委員間的溝通我覺得整體"},{"start":188.608,"end":213.949,"text":"國家是一體的所以大家對農民的照顧都是一體的那不要因為這些因素而影響到整個農業的發展我們預算很樂意跟委員在委員會討論溝通但是也希望說能夠至少副委讓我們有機會去說明好 再來我請教一下這個最近的雨量的問題讓大家擔憂高雄遇到大概70年來的最低的降雨量那我先問一下部長這個灌溉上面會不會有問題瓶身用水會不會有問題"},{"start":214.97,"end":231.878,"text":"我想我們因為冬雨跟春雨這邊現在目前看起來降雨的量非常少那南部的地區本身因為一起做用水量最大的風氣已經過了但是我們不能釣魚清新因為還有一些波地的果樹需要一些雨來"},{"start":233.138,"end":261.261,"text":"滋潤所以現在初步上是第一期是過了但是後面還是要審慎的因應就對了那部長有沒有什麼樣的一些方案如果萬一接下來比如說到了清明這段時間的狀況仍然不好的狀況下的時候那部裡面有沒有什麼一些我想我們現在已經啟動了那個抗案水井那我們也會準備了一些抗案的車特別在紅桃水壁需要水的時候我們可以來做一些協助然後利用一些區排在回收的水"},{"start":261.801,"end":276.019,"text":"所以我們有很多多元的這個看案的作為我們會同步來行動所以這個無論怎麼樣的狀況不會讓整個受到影響我想我們會盡量的去保住用這樣的一個方式也有提前因應的有做了最壞的一些狀況"},{"start":277.04,"end":300.065,"text":"大自然的氣候不是我們特別現在極端氣候真的異常所以變成不是我們的決定但是我們要做萬全的一些準備我們在2月3號跟經濟部水利署已經成立了應變小組我們隨時每個禮拜在監控水情然後去討論怎麼樣去讓我們的農民的用水能夠達到他們的需求好 這個請部長再密切的保持注意"},{"start":300.805,"end":328.013,"text":"那再來我請教一下這一次我們其實日本的東京食品展部分家宿有減少過去的時候曾經最多有到十幾家那今年只到11家那跟預算有關係嗎我想這跟預算沒關係那這基本上就是東京食品展像今年我們有一個台灣館那台灣館本身的造型吸引很多外來客來看到然後有15個縣市共同展出所以我們未來"},{"start":329.173,"end":353.116,"text":"希望說農業部主辦的台灣館可以跟各縣市結合在一起我覺得這是一個好的模式因為我們要整個整體行銷台灣那所有的各縣市進到台灣館內有這樣來做因為從以前不管是觀光各方面的我覺得這樣的都會達到最大效益我也希望趁著這幾年剛好日本對台灣也非常友善的時候那我們用台灣館的方式把我們各縣市好的農產品集體行銷出去"},{"start":353.596,"end":361.521,"text":"對 特別是在這次東京食品展那個高雄市也特別準備了非常多的這些農特產品那我覺得我看到很多"},{"start":363.385,"end":384.073,"text":"潛在的業者 買者啦都有去詢問這個部分我覺得這個是非常好的現象日本我覺得是最這幾年來包括美國日本啦特別日本我覺得是非常好的一個打入日本市場的一個機會啦那我希望在接下來農業部也要加大這個力道啦就是加大行銷的力道加大整個這些的力道讓我們台灣的"},{"start":386.254,"end":409.844,"text":"不只是高雄 台灣好的農產品能夠進到日本的市場去我覺得這如果奠定下來後應該有很大很大的效益啦會 我們一起來努力我想因為主席本身他自己他太太是日本人 我想他感受應該非常深刻這幾年跟日本的關係非常的好那我想應該把握這樣的機會主席也可以多帶領大家到日本去做行銷啊我認為這個都會達到很好的一個效果"},{"start":411.084,"end":439.623,"text":"那另外我們的鳳梨其實這幾年我覺得是一個成功的案例以前我們受到中國你看在2014年我們幾乎中國是占87%日本占12%但是到了2024年的時候我們幾乎在日本因為受到中國的影響但是在日本我們已經占到了92%我覺得這就是一個很成功的一個例子就是我們進入到了日本市場的時候變成我們就比較不依賴某個單一的市場那變成不受到一些影響我覺得這樣的例子恐怕未來要持續的大力來推展"},{"start":441.165,"end":456.304,"text":"我想持續除了日本市場以外那美國其實也有一個蠻潛在的市場他現在已經預告我們的鳳梨可以回去那我接下來問一下部長好了啦對日本跟對美國我們接下來要拿幾個農產品是未來農業部主力要消亡"},{"start":456.784,"end":471.564,"text":"日本跟美國的我想以現在目前我們關注的是毛豆因為毛豆在美國市場我們比中國還有競爭力可是相對的在日本部分我們的關稅會比中國還高所以我這次去的時候在特別"},{"start":472.225,"end":497.952,"text":"面到一些關鍵人物的時候我還跟他提說希望關稅能夠適度的下降所以我們在進軍美國的時候也要回防到日本的市場然後還有東南亞特別是澳洲跟紐西蘭的市場也是我們最近幾年其實在努力的還有歐盟的部分包括紅龍果一些部分我希望部長把這些都抓出來因為其實我們很清楚的戰略目標的時候我們就有機會打進這幾個市場"},{"start":499.352,"end":508.238,"text":"把國家的力道加注進去的時候就有機會讓我們農民讓我們的品牌行銷達到更好的效益對 我想我們會來努力來做好不好 這請部長再大力來支持啦好 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主席我們請部長好 有請部長委員好部長好"},{"start":20.646,"end":36.484,"text":"我想我今天看到我們這個法務部的這個有關於業務報告的書面計畫之外那我看到我們法務部的這個立法我們有另外附上一本法務部的立法計畫立法計畫裡面列出了我們這個我們要這個計畫立法的清單"},{"start":37.745,"end":62.292,"text":"裡面共計42案,42案裡面有的是我們法務部還在研議中的有的是行政院在審查中的,有的是會前司法院的,有的是已經送到我們立法院的委員會審查中的那大部分這些法案都是我看這個社會都有諸多的討論也都是一些這個重要的這個法律修正案,這個部分我都"},{"start":63.352,"end":82.939,"text":"我也仔細的看了所有的全部42案的這個相關的內容其中我特別感興趣社會比較這個討論度比較低的齁這部分我想特別今天利用這個質詢的機會齁來跟部長討論一下也就是我們這個立法計畫清單裡面的第19案齁有關知恐防治法的這個修正草案"},{"start":84.608,"end":103.611,"text":"這部分我們的這個滋恐防治法在2016年制定至今已經十年了十年,那這個其中只有在2018年做了一次修正那這個這一次我看了我們的這個修正連我們整個法案的名稱也做了一些修正這部分是不是能夠請部長先稍微簡單說一下,簡短一下"},{"start":105.048,"end":127.074,"text":"把這個修法的重點有關這個滋恐防治法的修法重點這個滋恐防治法這部分的確是要因應那個亞太防治洗填組織第三項拼件所指的缺失那以及國際社會入獄關制諸五課行為造成一個威脅所以要把這個做一個修法那我們這樣的一個"},{"start":128.915,"end":150.532,"text":"這樣子啦,我幫你來整理幾個重點第一個是,立法目的,有一個最重要的第一個目的就是過去的這個滋恐防治法,所謂滋恐就是支柱恐怖活動,恐怖組織,恐怖份子這在第一條裡面明定啦但是我們現在除了滋恐之外,我們又增加了一個非常重要的部分叫做這個滋武廓"},{"start":151.272,"end":174.91,"text":"也就是資助大規模毀滅性武器擴散我們把這個資武擴甚至放到法案名稱裡面去了表示說這是我們這次修法的一大重點就從過去的資助恐怖活動恐怖組織恐怖份子之外我們再規範另外增加規範有關於資助大規模毀滅武器擴散的部分為什麼做這樣的修正其實剛剛部長在簡單念的時候講到一個重點就是這個"},{"start":178.813,"end":196.633,"text":"這個事實上亞太的這個洗錢防治組織齁他們事實上在做這個相關的這個相互評鑑裡面齁他們針對我國現在的資管防治法提出了這個重大的漏洞提出了有關於有關於支五擴的重大漏洞這是我們過去我們的資管防治法沒有規範的對不對部長"},{"start":197.634,"end":225.8,"text":"對的確是沒有錯所以因為把這明確定義那個大規模毀滅性武器擴散當作一個規範的一個基礎所以我們在這個除了這個法案名稱增加了資武擴以外另外我們針對資武擴的犯罪形態的相關的這個這個構成要件他的法律效果等等也做了相關的規定除此之外我們還有一個重要的就在我們實務的需求上面新增加這個我們的這個目標這些金融"},{"start":226.44,"end":251.047,"text":"金融的制裁制裁制度那以及他們相關的這些通報跟可疑的這些申報的義務過去他們有通報跟申報的義務現在我們增加他有關滯恐過的部分他的這些金融機構以及這個這個指定的這些非金融事業跟人員他們都有相關的申報跟通報的義務也規範在這些新法裡面對不對是以前沒有吧這次是新增的增訂的好"},{"start":252.148,"end":280.52,"text":"那這個大概就是我個人比較關注的所以我看這幾個重點除了剛剛講的名稱跟這些相關的這些滋恐過的法律規範之外另外我們有一個重大的修正就是有關於我們過去這個滋恐防治審議會我們也做了修改對不對過去我們的這個滋恐防治審議會我們包括他的名稱也改他的成員"},{"start":281.55,"end":303.489,"text":"也做了增加他的職責我們也做了更動名稱的部分過去是知恐防治審議會我們現在變成知恐及知武闊防治審議會名稱上面做了改變成員的部分除了過去的各部會之外我們現在新增了財政部跟交通部對不對財政部跟交通部這兩個副首長都必須要加入"},{"start":306.493,"end":320.73,"text":"這個審議會嘛吼更重要的是他過去其實他的角色是在於這些政策的研議啦法案的這些審查還有這個相關的計畫的核定跟這個業務的督導過去是一個督導性質的但是現在不是了現在不是了現在我們這個這個"},{"start":323.25,"end":337.667,"text":"審議委員會它包括了受制裁者的指定你要指定誰受制裁必須由這個委員會這委員會新的功能只能另外以及誰能夠從這個制裁裡面除名有關於指定跟除名都是未來都是由這個審議會"},{"start":339.478,"end":361.691,"text":"由這個資孔跟資武庫審議會來審定對不對 部長這個是規定在第五條到第十一條對 這部分是一個很重大的變更啦這個特別是交通部非常特別啦因為事實上相關的有關於大規模武器擴散的許多的資助模式他都跟海上交通有相關的有非常重大的關聯啦那這個"},{"start":364.468,"end":392.366,"text":"另外我們這個也新增了這個剛剛講到有關金融機構跟指定非金融事業跟人員的義務通報義務跟申報的義務我們也增加了那另外關於知無過犯罪規範的修正修正裡面有些重點啦我這邊也不一一提第一個是說他過去的要件主觀要件過去是以明知為條件一般故意就可以了對那現在變成這個一般故意這個是一個很重大的修正"},{"start":393.487,"end":413.635,"text":"那另外這個有關於這個過去受制裁資助受制裁者過去是指你也只有資助恐怖組織恐怖分子但是對於資助受制裁者在過去是沒有規範的現在以後你去資助這個被制裁的人這個也受到我們這個新法的規範這也是一個部分那這個"},{"start":414.855,"end":430.294,"text":"但是這裡面更重要的這個部長我希望讓社會大家了解透過這個執行讓社會大家了解就是說我們的這個什麼叫做資武擴什麼叫做資助大規模毀滅性武器的擴散"},{"start":431.926,"end":457.965,"text":"這些並不是我們自己可以隨意定義的我們在法條裡面定義得非常清楚它是禁止與經聯合國安理會制裁是聯合國安理會制裁的而且這是第一個條件第二個要經過我國公告除了聯合國安理會制裁了我國還要公告公告禁止或管制貿易的國家或地區那這個你在這些地區從事貿易或是任何的貨物交易都是屬於這個置物擴販罪"},{"start":460.575,"end":476.94,"text":"對不對 這個部分 這個是犯罪是有規定在17跟18條修正18條更重要的是過去一些相關我們所謂紅旗行為就是說它本身還沒有真正的支柱 但它做了什麼動作例如說它的傳播 它隱匿實際的交易資訊或者說它無故關閉這個傳播的自動識別系統"},{"start":481.618,"end":507.412,"text":"我可以說我沒有資助啊我只是把那個識別系統關閉掉或者是你去土改或者是為居民這些土改你的船舶辨識的編號這種行為在過去它並沒有進入這個滋口防治法的管制但是現在包括你去篡改航海日誌或者是你不做航海日誌的記錄這些行為其實這個紅旗行為在這次的修法裡面我們都納入規範了對不對"},{"start":509.353,"end":534.88,"text":"所以這個事其實是很重要啦齁這個要讓國人了解說我們這個重大特...而且這個法案現在事實上已經在本委員會了對這已經送立法院審查了那只是還沒有一直沒有安排審查啦齁那這樣子的規範重要的是什麼齁我們舉這個2019年發生的這個案例齁有關於我們台商齁我們黃信台商涉嫌將這個3000噸的石油偷賣給遭到制裁的北韓"},{"start":536.089,"end":547.643,"text":"北韓的船隻這個這個案子齁在2019年齁發生那在這個2023年最後判決確定在過去以舊法的規範最後判決結果是什麼部長記不記得"},{"start":551.044,"end":568.974,"text":"最後我們只能按照這個滋恐防治法這個是一年一年對一年最後判處一年這個是蠻輕的啦很輕啦他除了這個違反滋恐防治法以外另外在未照文書四個月還一顆罰金那這個在國際上面在看這個重大的這個違反這個武器擴散"},{"start":571.324,"end":588.921,"text":"這個行為裡面我們最後只這樣子過去就法只能這樣輕判但是事實上如果我們能夠順利修法完成的話像這樣子的相關的行為不只他的那些剛剛所講的那些紅旗行為都可以個別成立犯罪另外按照這個第17條過去是一年現在變成五年了"},{"start":589.662,"end":608.756,"text":"變成五年以下的遊戲圖形這個就天差地遠這個部分是非常重要的一個修正那我希望說這個我們這個部長能夠利用相關的機會讓這個社會了解我們在這個滋恐防治法上面我們所做的這個修改的方向也讓國際社會能夠理解到"},{"start":609.436,"end":628.656,"text":"台灣在這個有關這個防止這個大規模的毀滅性武器的擴散上面台灣所做的法治上的努力好不好謝謝我們希望這個禁訴能夠通過好那另外第二個部分有關這個前面其實有委員提到了啦那我現在也一方面時間關係我就比較簡單的講就是"},{"start":630.649,"end":650.923,"text":"有關於我們被害人的陳述這之前早上也有委員提到被害人的陳述的權利在我們目前現有的法治上面不管刑事訴訟法的第271條他在這個審判日他能夠有陳述的意見的機會這個被害感情的陳述另外在這個第289條在證據調查完畢之後在這個事實跟法律辯論"},{"start":657.505,"end":680.882,"text":"這個辯論之後在這個就苛刑範圍辯論之前被害人有陳述的機會這都是刑事做法明定的另外這個我們的國民法官法也特別明定於苛刑辯論前這個被害人跟其家屬依法得陳述意見這些都是目前法治上面有保障的包括審判期日包括這個苛刑辯論前但是一旦進入"},{"start":682.799,"end":705.531,"text":"這個執行的層面之後到這個刑罰執行的時候有關於假釋的部分目前這個被害人能不能在假釋在這個受刑人假釋與否的這個過程裡面表達被害人的意見這部分目前我們的法治保障是不足的啦是不足的第一個在法治上面沒有明定我們目前沒有明定但我們並不是沒有做"},{"start":706.491,"end":725.457,"text":"但是我目前所做的他的這個規範的這個成績非常的低他是在用我們這個刑事訴訟法裡面所授權的不是用監獄刑刑法所授權的授權的這個受刑人假釋實施辦法裡面在這個實施辦法這裡面才提到"},{"start":726.317,"end":751.138,"text":"有關於 而且他在他在這個假釋 這第三條裡面提到說有關假釋資料的申請的審查有六項這個犯行的情節啊這個在間的形狀 犯罪紀錄 教化腳趾 處遇成效 更生計畫之後的第六項 其他其他裡面的一小項第五項裡面提到說被害人及其遺屬之陳述意見"},{"start":752.83,"end":771.311,"text":"所以他已經是在法律授權之下的辦法辦法裡面的各項裡面的其他四項裡面的一個小項提到這個那實際上我看你們這個實際的執行我也看你們有關這個假釋的這些面談摘要表裡面"},{"start":772.721,"end":797.671,"text":"有關面談原因的部分才有一項是被害人跟其遺屬申請意見是說為什麼面談是因為被害人原因而已至於被害人的意見究竟在整個假釋制度裡面佔多少比例其實是非常非常的低我按照你們的這個評估等級對照表裡面去對照其實這個幾乎是沒有採照這個意見這部分部長是不是你先在政策上面"},{"start":798.746,"end":823.432,"text":"有關於被害人在假釋制度裡面是不是我們能夠在法治上面賦予他們陳述的意見陳述意見的機會並且把被害人的意見納入是否假釋的這個考量裡面在一個立法上我們再來檢討我們再來檢討那不然以現在實務上的確是有落實這部分的一個被害人的一個陳述跟遺屬的一個意見其實目前是沒有落實的"},{"start":824.052,"end":841.931,"text":"目前大部分的現狀 那直行面是不是請那個署長署長 其實現在目前大部分很多的現狀都是這個被害人連說他的受刑人已經假釋了都還不知道每一個個案跟委員包括每一個個案我們會行文去調查調查被害人的意見被害人的意見我們再假釋報告"},{"start":843.433,"end":854.892,"text":"表裡面都有被害人意見的陳述另外他在提審查會的時候 教委是有一個報告報告說這個被害人表示的意見給假設審查委員做參考所以整個流程裡面我們都很慎重很嚴謹來看待這個問題"},{"start":857.335,"end":884.415,"text":"你現在抽像講,我其實可以拿你們的這個表裡面來看來看你們在這個評估這個受刑人假釋和平估量表你看它裡面有關於這個被害人的這個意見在這個估量表裡面他佔多少分數他在佔的比例而且現在現實上很多狀況是受刑人都已經假釋了,你被害人根本不知道連知道都不知道"},{"start":885.916,"end":908.264,"text":"相關的這樣子的通知義務這樣的告知義務我們都沒有在目前的法制上面有規定這個沒有關係目前的法制確實是沒有規定我是希望說我們法務部能夠在法制上面來做彌補那在整個制度的改革上面我們能夠現在我還沒有要求你們做一個統計到底有多少案件"},{"start":909.335,"end":935.755,"text":"多少假釋案件你是不是連被害人連知道都不知道他佔多少比例你們也沒有統計我有詢問你們你們也沒有統計那相關這樣子的案件數沒有統計之外我還是希望說能夠這個不要只是在刑事上面表格裡面的最小的內項裡面一個小小的分數是被害人的意見我認為這個在相關一定法律要件之下被害人在假釋的過程裡面所佔的意見應該要"},{"start":937.156,"end":947.96,"text":"予以他法治的地位以及予以他這個這個加強他的意見的對於這個是否假釋的結果的影響這部分我是希望部長能夠在法治上面來做這方面好不好好"}]}},{"id":"167602","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167602","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60531671a727e468c46bd268b4a161496bd94d1c9dfa77de2098a780272794d7ccdd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"11:06:13 - 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主委我們去年河安會第13次的委員會議有沒有討論游離輻射防護法"},{"start":26.633,"end":47.412,"text":"的修法有沒有這個討論或是有同仁可以來協助有齁那我為什麼這麼關注因為我在2024年齁當時的在也是教文會的預算提案的時候呢當時我就有提案要敦促河岸會可以盡速來完成修法那為什麼呢因為事實上你們去年這個討論是遲來的討論我們回顧一下這個修法歷程的討論"},{"start":52.757,"end":56.101,"text":"因為我們游離輻射防護法這個事實上是你們專業的科技法規嘛但是也是攸關人民健康安全的民生法規因為它的這個應用相當的廣泛包括了工業應用我們放射診斷放射治療等等其實跟民眾的健康都是息息相關的例如說我們就醫時候我們照X光我們的癌症治療我們海關檢查"},{"start":75.14,"end":92.562,"text":"這些都跟我們這一個游離服飾防護法是有所相關但是呢我們現在這個立法是在2002年的時候就立了到今天一次都沒有修過但是國際的標準有沒有改變已經改變了那何安惠能不能說明一下這個我們之前修法的討論是如何"},{"start":96.348,"end":106.655,"text":"報告委員確實我們在主改前也就是202年那時候我們有提出給行政院來進行那個服方法的一個草案的一個審議那也有審了不過因為後來我們那個園人會已經改組成和安會"},{"start":112.119,"end":116.821,"text":"所以我們後續又依照我們的一個和安會的一個組織架構以及在立院有委員的一些提案的一個一個建議的一個內容我們重新的來去做一個內容的一個審視那也通過了我們那個和安會的一個委員會議全體委員的一個一個同意我們就後續就經過那個行政院的一些性評還有一些人權的一個評估之後我們已經在"},{"start":140.229,"end":167.845,"text":"3月的又那個今年的3月我們送給行政院發函給行政院來再一次進行審議好因為我們現行法規是配合的是國際放射防護委員會1991年的規範2007年其實就已經有新的規範產生了所以我知道你們2002年這本來已經有修法草案了嘛好那麼現在你們現在這個修法版本已經抱怨了對不對好我們希望說今年啦"},{"start":168.505,"end":190.52,"text":"今年能夠來送到立法院來審議希望這個法規的這個修法其實已經是延遲了可以盡快來完成這部分我會持續的跟核安會來追蹤那接下來呢也是有關游離輻射相關的問題那我請這個核安會請劉柏慶國務院還有這個經濟部也一起上台是我們經濟部"},{"start":193.207,"end":213.122,"text":"標準檢驗局我們有一個國家有離輻射標準的建立那我們當時是委託了也就是我們現在的國園院我們成立一個國家有離輻射標準實驗室那麼我看了一下就是我們去年12月的時候我們也有開這個諮詢會議那就到我們這個"},{"start":214.943,"end":243.903,"text":"游离辐射的这个标准实验室的现场其实到现场来开会那我愿意针对我们的设备有一些讨论例如说其中之一就是我们的设备许多好像都相当的老旧就将近20年甚至20年以上甚至有一些都是已经在使用上面已经不是很符合我们现在的需求了那这个部分核安会能不能说明一下有没有掌握我们这个实验室的设备老旧"},{"start":244.443,"end":270.355,"text":"的問題是國營院做說明好國家游離標準實驗室事實上他第一次成立的時候是民國90年剛開始的時候就經濟部標檢局補助了大概2500萬那可是到今年今年的預算就下降大概只剩下三成920萬然後對於我們一些原來一些幾個重要的設施"},{"start":271.656,"end":291.633,"text":"比方說已經用了18年的校正這個X光機的電腦斷層校正的這個設備還有低能量X光機的校正設備還有孤60的這個校正設備都分別是18年到25年所需要的更換的設備都遠超過950萬甚至要到1500萬可是長期以來都沒辦法把這些老舊的設備汰換掉"},{"start":298.439,"end":324.997,"text":"那最後一項是河安會有建議這個比較迫切所以也撥補了額外撥補了我們一千五百萬就依據今年要完成這個社員的更新所以這個實驗室我想一直長期來都是國家重要的一個基礎設施之一兼顧國家良策體系的關鍵角色希望對民眾的生活這個施政的目標等等希望能夠委員繼續支持"},{"start":329.2,"end":347.115,"text":"我看一下你們那個中能量X光機甚至都使用時數都已經超過原廠建議值了然後你那個低能量X光機這個說超過25年然後呢一直在故障這個剛剛講這個低能量X光機像這個一台大概多少錢如果買新的話新機的話要1000萬"},{"start":351.508,"end":359.452,"text":"一千萬也不是一個很大的預算所以說我們國家沒有這麼窮這個是我們國家的實驗室也標準也就這三個而已所以說請這個河岸會國務院你們要去盤點你們這個設備不要讓那個委員來提醒我們確實我們有所需求要去更新的這個計畫因為是由經濟部來委辦"},{"start":375.598,"end":389.625,"text":"所以你的預算是由經濟部來編列是不是你們把這個需求提出來我們跟經濟部也來討論真的有需求的預算上面允許的我們是不是趕快來給他汰換更新呢這個部分的這個經費除了經濟部委辦的這個900萬之外那和安會也編列了差不多1500萬的"},{"start":402.288,"end":410.317,"text":"來去維持這個實驗室的運作那委員的指教的問題我們會跟何安慧對呀 因為一千五百萬你光是一台機器就不夠啦這個何況你還要營運這個請你們一起來共同討論好不好好 謝謝那接下來呢 這個市長請回國人院請回 這個"},{"start":419.147,"end":427.112,"text":"主委我要請教的是我們核電廠不管是不是要繼續運轉核廢料問題還是都要處理所以乾除設施的進度大家都很關心尤其是我們的核二廠因為核二廠的乾除設施開始試運轉了沒有什麼時候可以用"},{"start":439.989,"end":467.73,"text":"報告委員核二廠我們在今年的3月6號核准台電公司核二廠幹除的試運轉計畫那台電公司在3月16號開始進行試運轉開始試運轉那他如果要正式運轉的話還要通過什麼程序後續試運轉完成後台電公司依法要提出運轉執照申請那依據核一廠的經驗我們大概審查時間是4個月"},{"start":469.151,"end":482.045,"text":"對 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你說2026要提高啊"},{"start":41.781,"end":66.741,"text":"應該是說我們會繼續去擴充那個量能因為雖然現在看起來沒有滿但是有些區域上還是有不足啦所以我們還是會去繼續的鼓勵把那個住宿式長照機構希望要在不足的地方還是要再增加起來所以不會是用入住率因為那個會再增加那這個入住率指的就是住宿式機構啦"},{"start":67.722,"end":74.328,"text":"那你們住宿機構的使用率你們報告提到2026短期目標87%你不是這樣寫嗎應該是嘛我們報告沒有寫這個報告沒有寫這個你們2026沒有目標"},{"start":84.434,"end":113.171,"text":"沒有特別去說入住率是多少定這種目標是因為我們還會再長資源好我今天要跟你討論的就是我們現在高齡人口越來越多失能人口越來越多但是我看到一個就是我們現在住宿機構你現在看到的入住率現在是84%但是這些的空缺他不是真的他想要空下來而是因為在他的這個照護筆底下呢照護"},{"start":113.971,"end":122.402,"text":"人員不足然後所導致的這個床位被迫封床這個現象你們有掌握嗎"},{"start":124.251,"end":152.207,"text":"我們如果是以整體啦因為這個整體跟區域是不一樣就是有些地方是有床可是有床沒有人的現象我要講的是這個這個現象你們看到了嗎那所以我們才會讓這個住宿式機構也可以開放那個這個移工移工來協助按照一定的比例上去可以聘移工來補足這個人力上不足但是這三年來"},{"start":153.328,"end":167.64,"text":"他流失的這些造福人員在機構裡面高達3427人我要跟你討論的就是那難道我們本土的這一些長照機構人力的流失不需要去改善嗎"},{"start":168.26,"end":178.003,"text":"就是只能用移工來補足然後不去探究為什麼這些人要離開機構沒有辦法長期待在機構裡面這個問題你們有去檢討嗎要怎麼改善在你的長照3.0裡面有沒有針對這一些照服員包括他的待遇跟勞動條件你要做什麼樣的一個調整怎麼樣留住人在現場因為如果按照這樣的一個流失的速度的話"},{"start":197.19,"end":220.467,"text":"那這個是一個危機變成是有一些住宿機構有床也沒有人沒有人其實你就不能再招收新的這些受照顧者跟委員說明這個確實這個會流動因為我們在長照體系裡面有一些會流到居家有些流到社區甚至有些流到醫院所以它會流動"},{"start":221.929,"end":239.849,"text":"但是我們還是希望能夠久任,所以我們去年開始吧,有在增加112年開始有給他們這個進階的造福源給他每月的津貼5000元來鼓勵他留任連續4年這樣"},{"start":241.371,"end":263.353,"text":"但是2025年它還是持續下降中,有沒有發揮效果?我想整個的長照人力是增加啦,整個overall的人力是增加,當然在住宿式機構有這些流失,不過也有在挹注在進來,我想我們會持續的去注意到這個人力的變動。"},{"start":264.594,"end":293.248,"text":"你可以看到下一張圖你看到的是我們現在本土的人力在下降那增加的是什麼增加的是移工的人數也就是我們現在住宿機構裡面其實是高度仰賴移工來補足人力的缺口但是在這樣子下去這是一個好的方向嗎就是說我們過去不是在講說我們本土應該要建構屬於自己本土的照服員的人力嗎這個才是本"},{"start":293.968,"end":304.658,"text":"但是這一塊本我覺得都在流失當中而在當中的這個問題你們應該好好去探究因為包括你們的訓練你們趙福遠的訓練我看到的數字你們2025年的訓練人數是不是6506人"},{"start":313.741,"end":317.146,"text":"跟委員說明確實人力是一個很大的挑戰2024年是7259人2025年又下降連前面的職選訓練的人數都在減少這是個危機"},{"start":328.843,"end":353.128,"text":"我們也看到這個危機啦因為確實是整個台灣的工作勞力人口在下降是整個的下降各行各業都下降但是偏偏未來長照這邊需要的人口的力是在增加對 需求是要增加的所以這個是非常大的挑戰所以除了靠這個外籍移工之外我們也在想辦法智能化的照顧要導入啦"},{"start":354.848,"end":365.824,"text":"有嗎 你現在有跟上智能化有什麼新的方案3.0裡面就特別要補助他們去用一些更多的科技我們現在AI發展還是緩慢的還有其他的科技的像這個自動"},{"start":371.852,"end":384.764,"text":"智慧化的監測還有資料的monitor等等這些都想辦法在還有它的管理等等把它導入進來就是希望去share掉一些人力的負荷當然這個"},{"start":387.306,"end":411.72,"text":"我要求你們應該要有一個完整的針對長照的人力你要怎麼樣去補足你要有一套完整的計畫包括你剛剛講如果要引用一些智能輔具甚至未來AI整個的運用我都贊成但是要務實你要看到這個人力缺口的現象要不然我看到你們唯一的解方就是大量進口外籍移工"},{"start":412.216,"end":428.49,"text":"用移工來補足所有的缺口這個就是解方但是不是只有這樣子我覺得本土的如果我們希望讓這些造福源就是人數可以穩定隨著我們要照顧的人口可以穩定成長的話顯然你之前提出來的這一些獎勵方案"},{"start":429.891,"end":435.157,"text":"誘因都還不足所以我希望你們是不是可以一個月之內你們提一個檢討報告針對本土造福人力流失你要怎麼樣去提高從前端的訓練到他的福利到他的薪資到他的職場環境我覺得你們該是到了一個整個好好的去"},{"start":450.395,"end":473.23,"text":"檢討了那該是國家資源應該要挹注的我覺得就是要強力挹注啊因為這個是未來的問題我們現在已經遇到了那你如果這一塊你不及早去因應跟補足的話你將來都仰賴外籍移工但是外籍移工萬一他沒有辦法如期的進那麼多的時候我們就連照顧都會出問題好不好你一個月之內提一個檢討報告出來好不好"},{"start":475.151,"end":488.268,"text":"應該要怎麼做我覺得你要有一個更大的戰略來看待這件事情不是且戰且走應該好好的找專家學者來把這件事情好好的提出一個解方可不可以這個給我們長一點時間因為這個不簡單三個月不簡單的問題但是也要快了好不好"},{"start":494.455,"end":498.538,"text":"那另外一個今天謝謝昭緯安排這個議題這個長昭資源的失衡我覺得中央應該要看見你們在長昭3.0有提出一個構想說十分鐘的生活圈這個口號這個喊得很響亮但是我不知道你們沒有好好去真的走入天下"},{"start":517.15,"end":545.122,"text":"看到偏鄉他從一個村到那個村的距離到底有多麼的遙遠今天我們召委排這個議題我想他看到了這個原鄉有這樣的問題那我就具體指出來嘉義縣的阿里山鄉他也是原鄉地區那你看到這個地圖你們說這個涵蓋率有達到破百了百分之一百一十五聽起來都很好聽但是你看他的資源分布"},{"start":545.922,"end":568.148,"text":"它比較密集的地方都是在一些人口比較多的鄉鎮但是你看到右手邊這個阿里山鄉這個阿里山鄉你看起來就是稀稀落落範圍這麼的廣大但是不可能是你們喊出來的10分鐘的生活圈這是天方夜譚不可能的事那所以針對這樣子的一個地區我問兩個問題第一個就是"},{"start":573.829,"end":576.071,"text":"你們說10分鐘開車的距離第一個問題是10分鐘開車的距離請問車子誰開老人家自己開嗎現在交通部針對高齡長者開車他們現在是很審慎的就是不鼓勵"},{"start":592.023,"end":617.825,"text":"就是要加強管制那你這些對象都是高齡者我就問你要自己開嗎如果不是自己開你現在的3.0有針對交通問題有增加車輛嗎就是這種接受嗎我到ABC的據點我這些交通車我的量能你有提高嗎我在偏鄉地區看到的就是交通是一個很大的問題"},{"start":618.866,"end":632.852,"text":"你的服務你沒辦法到家你是用定點定點又遙遠又是山路然後你要老人家自己開那麼遠的山路然後來到這個定點然後提供服務交通真的是一個很大的問題你們3.0解決了什麼好"},{"start":636.921,"end":651.128,"text":"當然這個不可能我們到處都是10分鐘啦我們必須去誠實的去面對在地理上的障礙所以像這個山地鄉當然就是一個很困難的地理障礙"},{"start":652.088,"end":670.684,"text":"但是如何讓他能夠在地得到服務這個是方法啦所以除了交通接送到某些地方之外我們也在思考那麼一直在目前這個規劃中的共生宅讓他能夠在地就是他不具有經濟規模啦這個地方的人真的少"},{"start":672.105,"end":698.058,"text":"沒有辦法我們剛剛說的涵蓋率是用overall的數字去說服務的人數跟capacity這樣算出來可是這個地方就是長不出來因為他的那個住宿司機都出不來所以才會我們現在也在希望在這些地方有一些這個社區自發性也叫做共生宅我們現在在規劃中那你預計什麼時候要實施這個年底前就會開始試辦我們現在在密集的討論預計從哪邊開始試辦"},{"start":700.139,"end":722.629,"text":"會在支援比較缺乏的地方我們考慮的兩個方向一個就是重症兒童因為重症兒童現在我們的住宿司機構比較不好收因為這個都是混不太可能專門是為了這個兒童的這個住宿司機構嘛所以轉換因為他人數又比較少所以轉換成用共生宅來試辦這是一種"},{"start":724.85,"end":746.46,"text":"另外一種就是資源不足的地方他就長不出資源了那我們用另外一種方式來新的一種家的方式來來提供這個對你講的這是另外一個但是我剛問的交通你沒有回答你有沒有去提到這個交通我們有那個這個交通接送啊你現在的量能都不夠啊"},{"start":748.231,"end":775.642,"text":"你現在量差很多現在其實都好像在搶門票一樣我們現在是做多元的方式也有計程車的也有這個我希望你們可以好好去研議你們的這個交通的量能應該也可以提供另外一種叫做自助的就是社區自助的只要這裡面有人有駕照他的過去駕駛能力是好的然後他不用具備有計程車的資格就是說等於是自助系統裡面就是互助啦對"},{"start":777.443,"end":792.56,"text":"他願意擔任志工有點像Uber啦對 有點像是但是他是以可以就是如果這個老人定期要去這一些長照的服務機構的話我們來研究一下就是在我們那個平台上面有一種就是像委員講的是類似像Uber一樣"},{"start":796.364,"end":816.193,"text":"對 因為很多計程車司機也沒有辦法到那麼偏鄉的地方他要做他自己的生意但是這裡面如果有人其實是有優越的駕駛的能力他不見得拿到計程車的牌照但是用一種互助的方式他可以彼此之間就是形成一個互助系統然後他也有責任 就是他去接受"},{"start":816.593,"end":838.318,"text":"他沒有辦法開車的老人到這個據點來或者是來接受你ABC據點都可以這種我認為你們也要認真去考慮偏鄉沒有計程車啦那麼高的山上 跟你說一台都沒有啦不可能啦在那邊沒有辦法跑就類似像我們來開個Uber一樣嘛他來登記嘛那這個平台上可以叫這些我們來評估"},{"start":840.578,"end":856.659,"text":"我覺得交通量能事你這種偏鄉地方不要去講什麼十分鐘啦他有車子可以出門就已經是覺得很幸福了因為沒有辦法帶他出門老人就像沒有腳一樣所以這個部分我希望你們可以跟"},{"start":857.68,"end":873.139,"text":"我不知道你們是不是要跟交通部研議要啦 我們要找交通部討論對 在一些特定的偏遠地方的區域在安全的原則底下不是普及性的啦就是對一些有缺口的地方對 好不好你也通盤去檢討那這個一樣你一個月可以給一個"},{"start":877.083,"end":887.231,"text":"提出一個這個很複雜因為這個還涉及到交通部的法規那你也要三個月嗎三個月三個月那就要兩個報告一個是人力的一個是交通解決的方案好不好好謝謝好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝王彥明委員"}]}},{"id":"167599","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167599","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053fad6c669ed519588f85a32efe0b6ef7a4d1c9dfa77de2098dff3bbbc96e0e24c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝衣鳯","委員發言時間":"10:58:27 - 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謝謝主席 我想要請陳部長請農業部陳部長委員好"},{"start":21.564,"end":50.263,"text":"陳部長早安我想要請問就是說你有提到說要追溯就是說調整天然災害的救度額度那針對氣候變遷所導致的研發性的災損那這個部分我們目前智慧化的APP它勘災的準確率為何因為你知道嗎它是延遲性的災損那是否能夠讓智慧化的APP能夠適用它的勘災"},{"start":51.784,"end":78.609,"text":"第一個跟委員報告就是天氣型的採損跟災難型的採損我們陸續都一直在公告能夠減少勘災但是你所提到的一個重點就是所謂的延遲性的部分但是延遲性的部分以現在的科學技術它在某一個時間點才能夠判斷舉個例子現在芒果開花開得很漂亮但是它可能以後會落果所以現在目前延遲性的栽損是沒有辦法用"},{"start":79.329,"end":101.627,"text":"智慧化的APP嗎對 用美榜好像智慧化APP但是我想我們的改良廠都會持續的關注然後會在第一時間如果說它的確會造成後續的延遲性災損的時候我們會儘早的去公告好 那再麻煩就是說我們全部的那個改良廠對於延遲性的災損要特別的注意好不好因為有時候不會在第一時間"},{"start":102.788,"end":117.971,"text":"有有顯現嗎而是在就是災害的之後才會一兩個月以後才會我想我們改良廠的同仁都在這邊廠長都在這邊他們應該聽得到好好要麻煩就是要特別注意這個部分還有第二點就是現在"},{"start":118.712,"end":137.585,"text":"我們知道中東的衝突不斷那全球的肥料市場都面臨了供應鏈斷鏈的風險因為何不知海峽它就是承載了三分之一的這樣子全球的肥料那我想要請問那台灣"},{"start":138.84,"end":151.175,"text":"我們肥料會不會有問題 那肥料價格如何 因為現在全球的安價 液態安價有失控的情況 那會不會導致於我們肥料價格飆升"},{"start":152.025,"end":180.484,"text":"我第一個謝謝委員對我們農民所需的肥料的一個關心那根據我們現在目前所掌握的資訊包括庫存還有在海上的這些肥料在運肥料原料的船我們的蛋肥的部分至少可以供應到8月甲肥的部分可以供應到10月然後磷礦的部分可以到12月那其他的磷肥可能到10月的部分所以再到半年的時間應該沒有問題但是我們不了解中東戰爭會持續多久"},{"start":182.285,"end":197.27,"text":"那其實台灣的肥料的一個來源是多元化的我舉個您剛才說的義安的部分我們義安上半年特別在三月之前都是從中東進來的最後一艘船其實在中東戰事發生前就出來了那上半年是從馬來西亞跟"},{"start":199.351,"end":216.643,"text":"馬來西亞跟印尼的部分是來源所以它不會跟中東有影響所以我們多元化的這些採買的這個國家可以讓我們更有韌性但是不可諱言的中東站是如果造成整個運輸的費用提高的時候那勢必會影響到肥料的價格"},{"start":217.483,"end":238.776,"text":"那我想在COVID-19的這個過程中也遇到這種很艱鉅的運費高漲的部分那我們農業部一定秉持照顧農民的角度我想這個部分的價差我們一定會向行政院來呈報希望由政府來吸收這個價差要吸收嘛 對不對我想我們一定會去爭取對 我們會來爭取因為那個義安的價格它是國際的價格嘛"},{"start":244.8,"end":265.151,"text":"不只是議案啦 我覺得比較擔心的是運費因為能源短缺運費變貴的時候造成成本上漲的時候那如果導致後續導致肥料可能會提高的時候我想我們會關注然後如果需要政府來協助我們一定義不容辭"},{"start":265.891,"end":282.285,"text":"好那這個部分要麻煩注意喔就是要控制我們肥料的價格因為不然的話農民還是非常擔心我想我們一定會盡努力去做所以半年內是沒有問題的嗎是不是那是半年之後還要再後續再做觀察我們每個禮拜都會去盤點"},{"start":283.826,"end":293.121,"text":"好 那就ART的部分我想請教一下因為去年我們就是說對於2025的這個"},{"start":296.809,"end":318.458,"text":"的那個花生喔就是花生的部分喔就是去年已經都就是關於進口配額內的都已經就是開標了嘛對不對對已經開標了今年的部分都已經開標了對那問題是因為如果未來就是說就是零關稅可是目前國內的花生的這個產量已經"},{"start":319.718,"end":348.221,"text":"以及就是說因應這個進口的這個都已經很多了我看到的是大概有12,290噸喔那還有就是農民他們也就是配合美國關稅去年美國關稅那就是我們也有按照那個美國關稅的這也跟農民收購所以導致今年的這個收購都已經都非常多那今年內應該還會不會再進口花生呢"},{"start":349.012,"end":375.578,"text":"我第一個跟委員報告過往的花生都是從印度進來比較多大概6000多噸然後還有巴西阿根廷巴西佔了將近90%那美國的只進口調製的花生只有75噸但是不可諱言如果這個ART本身的內容後續還維持著的時候那相對的美國的價可能因為過往都沒有這個脫殼花生但是"},{"start":376.238,"end":389.988,"text":"我們也評估了如果他從美國進來的時候那個價格會比國產的還低可能會造成某個程度的影響會造成國產的花生的影響但是我要跟委員報告就是我覺得"},{"start":391.845,"end":414.07,"text":"臺灣的農業後續的不能再用價格去跟國際來競爭因為我們的成本都比較高的所以我們要變成用價值來做競爭表示說用品質跟我們的品牌來做區隔所以後續我想我們會趁這個機會去調整整個花生的產業結構我不要再讓農民自己在道路上曬花生"},{"start":415.47,"end":444.268,"text":"我想我们会台湾的花生很好吃对是很好吃有它的香味我会送你我们那个彰化的花生超级好吃对所以我说台湾的花生有台湾的潜力那供应国内市场我希望说带动这样的一个品牌跟它的品质然后利用这种就是丝甲的收购的方式取代过去干甲因为干甲的部分农民要自己在道路上马路上晒花生嘛这个都是四五十年前一直延续的你讲的是未来嘛你讲的是未来对我们现在都在启动了"},{"start":444.568,"end":469.785,"text":"今年應該不會再進口 因為今年的國內的勾很多了我們也要趁這個機會去改善我知道 我說那是未來嘛 今年內不會再進口因為今年內的財量已經很多了它額度已經飆了齁 它不會說放棄這個額度的權利金而去採買美金那明年就是要怎麼樣子協助我們台灣的農民嗎對 所以我說今年就要啟動這種新的這樣的一個調整的方式"},{"start":471.165,"end":493.196,"text":"還有另外一個就是豬肉的問題如果美國豬零關稅的時候委員我想你一定喜歡吃台灣豬不會只是美國豬因為美國豬肉只佔全體消費的1%其實我想大部分的豬農都不用擔心因為整個豬肉的自給率大概是平均大概88去年比較低是83因為非洲豬的關係"},{"start":494.296,"end":514.862,"text":"所以溫體豬肉跟豬肉的供應的型態台灣其實已經有它的黏著度啦所以美國要進來第一個要打敗加拿大那很難因為加拿大佔40%所以他必須要跟競爭對手我競爭以後才有機會影響到國內所以我想委員可以不用擔心豬肉的問題"},{"start":515.342,"end":527.613,"text":"我還是很擔心啊我怎麼可能不擔心我還是很擔心國產豬啊你只要每天吃台灣豬肉就不會有問題啊你如果帶頭吃台灣豬肉就沒問題啊我有啊 我常吃豬肉我已經天天吃豬肉了好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167611","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167611","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60534a97f79eb7fccb4db086282839459da04d1c9dfa77de20989cea193b8358d2b45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"11:15:57 - 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t":12.63,"end":13.295,"text":"主席麻煩部長好有請部長"},{"start":20.274,"end":46.142,"text":"我長期接獲不少民眾陳情反映一種犯罪模式犯罪者會在IG或的社群平台建立女性的虛擬人設長時間跟被害人聊天培養性的後誘導對方進行視訊的裸聊或者是拍攝私密影像並在過程當中去測錄之後再把這影像"},{"start":47.222,"end":69.901,"text":"拿到那Telegram的群組或者是論壇或者是交友平台來販賣甚至以騙換騙的方式呢持續的流傳而且受害對象不只是兒少也常鎖定外型較好的人譬如說運動員軍警醫護等穿制服的職業有甚至出現集體鎖定的情況部長你知道這個犯罪的模式嗎"},{"start":71.535,"end":97.408,"text":"這個的確實務上常常有這種的案例那我覺得再來問你第二個就是說目前行事實務通常是以哪些罪名來做處理這算不算一種詐欺模式當然如果說有強暴脅迫的這個是有刑法319-2來規範那少年這部分如果說這是一個詐欺的話實務上是有詐欺得利罪判掉的這種的案例"},{"start":97.668,"end":103.09,"text":"可是部長這不只是不僅是詐欺啦還可能同時構成恐嚇取材 兒少性剝削"},{"start":104.579,"end":125.051,"text":"組織犯罪的這些相關的議題而部長陳勤仁跟我反映說第一線執法的流程存在一些落差譬如說有些案件警方會先通知嫌疑人到案說明簡單詢問後就現場查看他的手機或者是影像裝置就發現沒有證據後就先讓犯罪嫌疑人離開但是沒有"},{"start":129.614,"end":153.576,"text":"同步進行搜索或者是扣押這樣子可能就導致我們的證據流失我知道這第一線的偵查人員都非常的辛苦可是對這類的案件檢警是不是有統一的SOP流程確保在鎖定嫌疑人後如果有必要的話就能夠優先進行搜索和扣押以確保嫌疑人不會有滅症的可能性有辦法做到嗎"},{"start":154.416,"end":180.936,"text":"我想實務上像這種的性侵的案件的一個偵辦保全這個的確是非常重要因為它會存在就像那個數位的保存要知道被害人最受苦的就是影響外流之後永無寧日所以這部分基本上那個案件的偵辦都會先申請搜索票或者先來進行搜索來扣證來避免那個證據的流失"},{"start":182.637,"end":198.285,"text":"那這部分我想實務上基本上的做法是這樣部長真的是這樣嗎我再來跟你請教一下關於網路犯罪的管轄實務見解上有廣義跟狹義來做區分這部分部長你應該知道吧"},{"start":199.105,"end":212.939,"text":"那今年新影像案件越來越網路化、組織化加害人就會是常透過社群平台、暗網或者是加密的通訊軟體彼此串聯那犯罪行為可能遍及全台可是如果你的廣義的話"},{"start":214.841,"end":235.103,"text":"當然沒有問題可是如果你是用狹義的來偵辦的話就會變成說那個網在設置網站的地方甚至電子郵件的主機所在地你去認定的話有時候就會有問題因為很多相關影像或證據也都藏在個人電腦硬碟或者是雲端空間如果偵查的時候沒有辦法統一指揮"},{"start":236.064,"end":258.588,"text":"因為有時候事實上是全部前來可是如果你只針對一個地方的話那其他的地方也是可能會有滅政的可能性所以如果你沒辦法去統一指揮同步來進行搜查的話一旦其中有一個人被查獲那他通知其他人那其他的成員就可能立即滅政轉移群組然後繼續翻案這不會是一件好事所以部長關於這個問題法務部應該如何因應獲得有沒有具體的作為"},{"start":266.324,"end":273.546,"text":"這部分因為的確有廣譽說跟狹譽說的一個問題因為各地先辦案的方式都不太一樣高檢署是有統合來做一個管轄權的指定看給哪個地檢署來偵辦會比較妥適因為的確是我們也擔心法院萬一是採狹譽說的話這個會有這些沒辦法"},{"start":290.629,"end":313.267,"text":"犯罪的問題的話所以像我們那個創意司法這邊我們就是給台中地檢來偵辦嘛創意司法這邊其實以來講以廣義說每個地檢署都有管轄權嘛但是我們有統合給台中地檢高見來指定給統合給台中地檢郭部長我要問你像以這個陳情案例來講光兩個資料夾的影片數量就高達"},{"start":314.909,"end":329.226,"text":"KQ看到 所以想問你說重大性影像案件的成立專案標準是什麼是案件規模呢 還是影片數量 還是被害人數因為這事實上是陳情人給我的資料你要到底多大的案件的性質"},{"start":329.727,"end":352.344,"text":"都已經是有7223個檔案他還是不成立不成立專案有6800個檔案也不會成立專案你們到底要多大的案件的性質跟規模跟複雜程度你們才會成立專案然後來查所以內部到底有沒有一致性的標準這個有多少的檔案這個都是要查了才知道"},{"start":353.385,"end":382.144,"text":"那我想可是他已經是給你們結果你們到底有沒有去做查到底能不能成立專案來調查警方如果說有會報詞彙我們都會用專案來處理這部分會專案來處理可是我說這個陳情人他已經去跟你報案那你們有一千個成員的甚至裡面搜索他們自己在這成員裡面他們是當成員他那邊有六千八百個檔案的你也沒有成立專案小組如果說那個司法警察機關有報詞彙我想我們都是用專案來處理的"},{"start":383.044,"end":408.405,"text":"我真的也要跟你反映一種狀況這類案件受害的不是只有女性現在非常多因為我現在接到這陳情的很多是男性而且有些人在報案或偵查過程當中都還遇到調侃說你一個男性怎麼會被騙呢這沒有分男女甚至一個嘲諷的情況被害人本來就承受很大的心理壓力如果在求助時又受到這樣的對待"},{"start":409.225,"end":430.91,"text":"可能以後更不敢去報案他也不知道誰對方側入了他當他發現的時候他去報案怎麼會有這種狀況所以部長法務部是不是能夠有相關的教育訓練確保第一線人員在偵查過程當中能夠用更尊重的態度來面對被害人他已經是受害了不要再去嘲諷他"},{"start":431.69,"end":459.479,"text":"沒有人想要受害我想這個我的見解跟看法是跟委員一樣那我們也非常重視事實上我們那個剛才委員提到那個專案喔那個個案是的確我們都會是專案但是如果說是有專責小組在辦的話我們現在都是有副右專組在辦市長我還是要問啦就是說我剛剛就這是陳情人他已經去做這樣我說到底你們成立專案的那個標準是什麼專案的話我們就是專案所以我在這個這邊"},{"start":461.139,"end":485.588,"text":"請你一個月內提交報告也就是可不可以提供你們明確的性影像案件的處理流程還有成立專案小組的標準是什麼否則有一千一萬個成員甚至有這麼多檔案在裡面你們還是不成立專案小組啊所以請你一個月內把這個報告給我是 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诸位 我们那个都一起好了 我们巩部长提到今天大家也在问 河山厂已经启动了自主安全检查三月就要这个运转计划送到河安会那预计2028年就可以将河山重启而且也说到如果这个汰换设备这个不多重启的时间就会再缩短那我们美国西屋公司其实也要展开了设备老化的分析这些工作那我这边再确认一次"},{"start":49.136,"end":61.161,"text":"核三厂再运转计划三月份要送核安慰距离现在只剩下12天的时间那跟台电经济部跟各位确认核三厂再运转的计划其实有没有改变会如期送到吗"},{"start":63.787,"end":82.162,"text":"這個部分剛剛台電公司已經有表達他會在三月底之前送出來再運轉計畫說完全沒有問題所以計畫也不會改變對不對這是確定的嘛好那再來喔 國務黨又說到他說現在我們美國的西屋公司已經開始展開設備老化的一個分析的工作了這沒有錯嗎"},{"start":83.784,"end":106.662,"text":"那台電在這段時間也開始進行安全檢查核安會的報告又提到說有派員赴核電廠掌握了設備的現況那我想請教一下主委請教一下許副總我們現在掌握設備是不用汰換的是有多少那預計有沒有辦法縮短核三廠重啟的時間要檢測當然要檢測最晚以後才知道說我"},{"start":108.26,"end":112.906,"text":"才能知道說我這個設備到底我未來如果要繼續運轉到底他需不需要去做更換"},{"start":113.863,"end":142.604,"text":"對那現在因為剛才已經說過嘛已經開始進行安全檢查所以現在已經檢測到大概百分之多少目前來講我們剛開始進行一些檢測的工作那蘋果的工作當然之前大概就已經所以檢測完成了嗎還沒有還沒有進行了多少目前來講這個月開始我們會開始進行所謂的蒸汽產生器也就產生蒸汽做發電把它當成是一個工程一個計畫現在進行了百分之多少目前來講大概就是"},{"start":143.465,"end":155.391,"text":"西屋的那一塊我講西屋那一塊西屋那一塊目前來講正在做一些他給他的下包商的工具的這個製造不好意思直接回答我一下現在進行了百分之多少了"},{"start":156.054,"end":178.78,"text":"目前來講我這裡沒有手上沒有詳細的數字那就是剛開始的意思對不對那我想有開始總是好的但是麻煩進度要趕上我講的是檢測的部分那麼我想再請教一下主委好了我們核安會作為我們核能最高的主管機關也是一個審查的單位主委你認為核三廠重啟是一個完全的科學問題還是政治問題"},{"start":180.202,"end":203.585,"text":"我們核證一定本是專業確定他安全我們才會讓他所以是科學問題還是政治問題是科學技術上的問題科學問題嘛對不對很好為什麼這樣問因為我們這麼多年說下來核安會是獨立的機關就是要提醒主委說您剛說到的專業審查這件事情是很重要的所以"},{"start":204.386,"end":220.371,"text":"千千萬萬不要讓政治去影響這個在專業上這件事情該怎麼審就要怎麼審當然了 核產廠能不能在2028去重啟還有一個問題我們知道賴清德總統他說過核電重啟的三大原則一 核安無虞二 核廢有解"},{"start":220.971,"end":240.569,"text":"三 社會要有共識那我今天來提醒這個經濟部或者河安會有沒有跟行政院討論過關於所說的核廢油解這件事情什麼叫做核廢油解 標準是什麼是最終儲市場出來叫做核廢油解還是要具備什麼樣條件這非常模糊 能不能說明一下還是賴總統說了算"},{"start":247.461,"end":267.61,"text":"首先跟委員說明啊 這些無論在運轉中的或是在審查中的這個計劃其實這個核廢料的處理都是階段性的處理不管是低階或是高放我們那麼重點告訴我核廢油解的標準你認為是什麼或是乾除的一個作業都是我們跟國際同軌來進行運轉中的這個核電廠的"},{"start":272.134,"end":274.075,"text":"我們目前擁有高階核廢料最終處理廠的國家有多少?"},{"start":292.185,"end":320.515,"text":"最終處置嗎 我已經講最終處置嗎高階核廢料最終處置廠目前來講大概只有芬蘭只有芬蘭一家嘛芬蘭也還沒有正式拿到它的使用執照它目前在做一些試運轉測試對對對 好 沒錯就是目前嚴格算來就是只有芬蘭一家嘛是那除了這些國家以外就除了芬蘭之外其他的國家對於高階核廢料怎麼處理的你們知道嗎核廢料 我簡單講就是核廢料的處置其實上這一塊是其他的國家大致上都是用什麼方式處理的"},{"start":321.375,"end":339.931,"text":"目前來講大概乾式儲存還是乾式儲存我在這裡要提醒一下就是我國高階核廢料最終儲置廠現在可以說是連法規都沒有所以次長也在這裡我請教最後一個問題我們高階核廢料選址條例的草案進度現在到哪裡了什麼時候才能夠出來"},{"start":341.94,"end":365.912,"text":"第一個我們去年成立辦公室那這個辦公室目前工作的重點有三個部分第一個說起到國外核能使用的國家它法規的一個訂定的一個過程那另外對於民間版的一些的意見我們也在做綜合的這個整理除此之外的話我們也辦了相關的所謂的所以草案還在草案是這樣嗎"},{"start":367.012,"end":387.788,"text":"还在资料收集的阶段我认为真的需要再快一点脚步要再快一点所以惠惠也告诉我一下你这个草案进度实际现在到哪里了做了哪些事情那你预计还要多久时间才能够完成把这个草案顺利完成完毕以后因为这样子我们到后来高阶核废料最终储施场的建立"},{"start":388.328,"end":395.398,"text":"我想這都是一系列非常的重要的所以最後我提醒我想我們這個高階核廢料的最後最終處置場這個不是短時間之內就能建立起來這你們一定同意但我們低階核廢料最終處置場也跟地方又溝通了10年也還沒有一個這個結果"},{"start":404.892,"end":430.628,"text":"所以本席認為高階的這個最終主持長的預估時間可能會更久因此在每一個環節我拜託大家我們的腳步要加快一點要更積極一點否則我們這個核電廠重啟會是遙遙無期以上兩個我需要調的資料拜託今天都能夠給我可以嗎我們相關的這個我們現在工作的方向整理起來給我好不好因為那都是本來就有的好不好謝謝謝謝萬美林薇"}]}},{"id":"167609","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167609","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053f9cdff56a6a6e6d16c6d05596fd77c734d1c9dfa77de2098fd79bbc0b0a3b3945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"11:08:16 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主席有請委員長請委員長"},{"start":10.843,"end":31.61,"text":"議員好 委員長辛苦了 這個全球的這個台橋朋友 尤其是我們的台商喔最近剛好有一系列的這個各區的這個所謂台商會的理見式會議啦不只是世界台商總會啦 包括其實各區的也都開始在進行當中所以你真的是全球飛馬不停蹄啦"},{"start":32.27,"end":38.314,"text":"那麼我們其實也一起在澳洲雪梨出席了世界台商總會的第二次離間宿會議那麼其實蠻可惜的是我們去的時間點為了趕上立法院的包括大院的總質詢以及我們的委員會我們要選召委所以我們其實沒有機會在雪梨為我們的這個女足隊"},{"start":52.645,"end":59.509,"text":"來台灣女足來加油可是就在我們各自你在前一天離開我在當天離開的時候發生了這個所謂台灣女足隊在亞洲盃受到打壓的狀況但其實這個打壓我們仔細來看它並不是真正的是澳洲在打壓我們為什麼這樣講是因為呢從後續我們看到的是包括第一時間雪梨住代表處"},{"start":75.02,"end":98.625,"text":"有發函去跟亞洲的足協抗議而隔幾天之後3月14號對印度的時候呢我們甚至於代表處有派員到波斯去加油而同步其實在現場我們看到的是這些台商朋友們台橋朋友們自動自發的來做加油後續呢他們也上了"},{"start":99.465,"end":124.992,"text":"澳洲的媒體來闡述這一次的過程而我自己在網路上我甚至於看到了一個小故事是當時在3月14號對印度的時候我們有自動自發的台橋朋友在現場加油那麼在過程當中呢就有一位澳洲的工作人員用英文輕聲細語的過來跟他說你不可以揮台灣的國旗不能揮中華民國的國旗"},{"start":126.152,"end":151.448,"text":"然後他說I'm your side但是呢如果我讓你繼續揮舞下去我就會失去工作因為現在這個球場的Owner是中國人那就在這個過程當中後面一位澳洲的朋友一個澳洲朋友自己跳出來說那他帶領他自己來喊是而且他說我們在澳洲這裡是Australia不是China"},{"start":153.223,"end":171.279,"text":"我要講的是在這樣的過程中所展現出來的是從台商台橋再到澳洲在地都了解台灣現在所受到的箝制跟中國的打壓針對所謂的奧運模式管的是球員其實是不涉及在場內的觀眾"},{"start":173.735,"end":180.759,"text":"那這樣的一個狀況事後的SOP我必須要說事件會不斷的發生在澳洲的部分我們看到的是更多的澳洲朋友幫我們發聲那麼顯然過去一直以來我們一直希望的所謂聽台灣 世界被看見包括委員長您的工作的部分對於台橋朋友的支持跟肯定然後包括他們對台灣的榮譽心 榮譽感是在這一次感染到了"},{"start":199.69,"end":221.126,"text":"但是我還是要請問的是在爭取國際跟社會支持的部分在這個事件當中你們後續有沒有跟外交部做更多的檢討又或者是如何在這個部分其實能夠更把這個所謂危機化為轉機我要這樣講因為後來在網路上甚至於包括這一個專訪也就是澳洲台商會的監事長的專訪點閱率已經超過在我看的上超過了三萬多"},{"start":226.17,"end":251.027,"text":"那麼所以像這樣的一個SOP後續你們有沒有做一個什麼樣的了解或檢討希望能夠化為機會轉機跟委員說明在當時我雖然趕著回來台灣參加總質詢的這個工作但是我一回來我就馬上都緊盯著這些相關的賽事那我們在當時隔天就是你們要上飛機的那一天"},{"start":252.588,"end":277.318,"text":"確實在這個對印度的這一場上面是有工作人員來干涉第一個是那個coach先被請出去了這是第一個事件第二個事件就是在現場加油的人拿著任何跟台灣有關係的旗幟或布條或者任何的這個標示都被現場工作人員干預那事實上我們知道後面其實是中國在打壓"},{"start":278.518,"end":304.117,"text":"那因為這個動作現場的澳洲朋友仗義執言使得我們意外贏得了更多的力量那後來隔兩天他們就飛到博斯參加對中國的我們的女族對中國的比賽那一場當然我也很緊張那包括我們代表處就特別派我們的官員飛過去博斯去關心那一場呢我們站到中場90分鐘都還是0比0"},{"start":306.719,"end":320.412,"text":"所以最後的延長賽在Kick的時候這個最後被中國禁了兩球因此很可惜我們沒有辦法不過跟我們講一個好消息昨天澳洲隊替我們復仇了所以這個澳洲隊晉級"},{"start":322.654,"end":349.194,"text":"我必須要講就是說在這種國際賽事的過程當中已經有越來越多的國際友人是看不下去所以當場我也知道說我們在博斯我們的移民其實相對也是有限在現場我們有估計中國去看球的有五千人我們台橋是一千人但是一千人我們的總體量來說我們是比例高在我們的移民人數裡面是比例高大家都自動自放很有向心力的那但是在那一場裡面足協"},{"start":351.595,"end":371.813,"text":"包括我們自己的足協的人都說大家還是低調一點以比賽為核心所以大家都是非常低調客氣的只是這樣在場邊給女足隊加油而已但當天 所幸沒有發生再有跟印度的時候的事情發生沒有再發生因為那個場就已經不是中國人Owner了嘛"},{"start":377.338,"end":382.002,"text":"所以這個差別就讓我們很清楚知道說未來如果有類似這樣的狀況可能我們在第一時間都必須要有所準備在各種場地比賽的時候都要了解那些背景狀況以便讓去加油的這些觀眾心裡也有所準備至少我們有系統的台商或者橋團其實在兩年前的奧運也發生過同樣的事情"},{"start":402.421,"end":413.295,"text":"但是因為這樣子的打壓結果本網都把我們贏得了在地國際的更多朋友這個仗義執言跟看不下去所以這件事情意外的又變成幫我們爭取到一個機會可以上這個他們當地主流媒體讓中國無處不在的打壓"},{"start":421.445,"end":435,"text":"現行所以我相信我們的僑胞會受到這種鼓勵大家會更加團結而已好 所以我特別點出這個也是覺得這一次不論是僑委會或者是我們在澳洲的台商的反應都協助了"},{"start":436.121,"end":440.925,"text":"外交部在這裡可以化為機位轉機那麼事實的跟國際發聲把事件講清楚凸顯中國的惡霸這個是非常的重要的這也是一個小蝦米對大紀元的做法另外當然剛剛這個很巧啦就是本席在準備這個節目這個題目的時候國民黨昨天也開了記者會但事實上過去我也針對這個所謂的強迫勞動的部分有質詢過經濟部跟這個勞動部那麼這個部分當然我也知道僑委會在保護僑生的保障的部分"},{"start":465.805,"end":488.297,"text":"也針對這個相關做了一些調查跟了解那麼我相信這個部分其實就是持續的在轉好的過程所以時間有限我要直接跳到下一張那如果等一下有補充的話也讓委員長來講就是除了寶尚喬生的權益之外我們做了很多但是根據這個所謂3加4的這個產息專班"},{"start":491.198,"end":511.697,"text":"外界現在常常有一個說法是認為因為選擇就像你剛剛所說在僑委會在教育部在勞動部不一樣的狀況有不一樣的專法常常會出現所謂踢皮球的狀況遇到了事情包括連對於雇主的罰則都不依那麼在這樣的事權分散甚至於法規分散的情況底下勞動部"},{"start":513.439,"end":526.706,"text":"教育部然後又喬委會這樣的事件發生的時候到底主責單位怎麼去找甚至於可能喬生都不太清楚尤其是他們有語言上面的問題所以在這個題目上面我反而認為有的時候的發生不是因為"},{"start":530.228,"end":547.69,"text":"這個是我們想要去苛扣而是甚至於搞不好連雇主都搞不清楚他適用於哪樣的法規所以在這個包括如何來統合事權或者是如何協助中文能力比較不好的僑生知道自己的權益保障尤其我要提到的是建教專法他是把本地"},{"start":548.231,"end":554.817,"text":"本國的建教生跟僑界活動委員也要表達的意義主要就是說我們現在會加強對新生訓練的時候提供他們多餘的相關法規資訊然後讓他們在研讀的時候就可以理解說因為其實有時候是僑生自己的誤會"},{"start":567.79,"end":574.616,"text":"他一方面是他可能華語溝通能力還沒有那麼強再者是他們因為跨國不懂我們的法律規範是什麼那當然也不排除有些企業確實也沒了解那麼清楚然後在這個規定上面他們也沒有遵守規定所以我們第一個就是第一我們會加強不定時的查緝第二個我們開放多元的申訴管道所以現在只要僑生有任何透過我們的"},{"start":593.711,"end":602.017,"text":"通過電話透過這個這個我們各種信箱LINE的啦FB的只要進來我們都統一管理然後就會去調查學校然後就會叫學校要交出報告然後我們還會不定期去查核還包括企業一旦有狀況我們就會祭典下一個年度的他包括核定他人數跟班級數我們都會予以裁罰那如果他有改善我們就會比照辦理可是如果他領犯"},{"start":622.731,"end":631.296,"text":"不改那我們就不客氣當年度的補助金額也會給他扣除所以我們還是有一些工具可以用然後我們也會通報勞動部也會通報教育部讓跨部會的合作可以強化所以這一塊我們我真的很感謝我們同仁們他們很積極雖然我們原額報告人員我們最大的困擾是我們預算成長了成長了兩倍結果我們人一個人也沒有增加"},{"start":650.766,"end":661.412,"text":"所以大家現在簡直是我真的對不起他們我心裡很難過但是我會盡量完成事情一算變增加就是事情增加但是人沒有增加這個我們可能也要跟任總再來反映一下因為"},{"start":665.834,"end":670.698,"text":"包括像這些來台灣來補充我們的人力的問題那其實這個有很多的管理面的問題啦吼那就是還是要給這個委員長還有喬委會打氣加油啦那麼至於這樣的問題喔就是能夠有一個解決的方法那麼確實也會有助於我們台灣的所謂人力的生產力的補足"},{"start":686.55,"end":691.539,"text":"是 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我是很有信心的在這裡"},{"start":161.653,"end":171.981,"text":"那現在又一個問題來了那美國關稅的新制在122條款之中啊它裡面全球後面農業的項目有230項但是根據報告這230項的農業產品裡面後面台灣沒有一樣能做有 茶葉"},{"start":181.448,"end":202.765,"text":"茶葉有嘛 茶葉我們是高產價的沒有 茶葉我們銷到美國佔比是百分之三十所以換句話說其實茶葉來講對我們的茶農本身在銷美的時候是有絕對的一個優勢所以南蛙那些都沒有了南蛙是沒有的我們這個高產值既是密集的都沒有我還要跟委員報告"},{"start":204.506,"end":226.735,"text":"現在10那每個國家都10那個競爭力是一致的那競爭力是一致的那就看我們的品質看我們品質嘛再來裡面啊他有特定提到一個產品就是醫療相關的農產品用於製造藥品植物原料在我覺得這個地方你要去研究一下"},{"start":228.041,"end":248.816,"text":"生技的產品 食物 藥用的產品 應該去加強看台灣能不能找出一個機會中藥 中藥 中國台灣的藥我像委員講的可能是保健食品啊不是保健食品 他講那個植物啊 農產品啊當然 搞不好是說保健食品我們再來了解"},{"start":251.394,"end":279.875,"text":"好不好好 我們再來了解再來喔 我要跟你宣告老農津貼啊 賴總統下去的時候我們提高到一萬塊好像很照顧農民農民不一定是貧窮的人這種裡面就代表他所從八千一百一十元老農津貼十三年沒有調整現在要調整到一萬元對不對是你想要調整到一萬元 你想要給多少"},{"start":282.356,"end":293.64,"text":"一百二十九億一百二十九億啊不是啦 我曉得一百二十九億 我說調的啦 你從八千一百十塊調到一萬塊 給一千八百九十塊我給你建議有兩個方案 要做就做得漂亮 人家會給你額外這底下我覺得調得太少"},{"start":307.321,"end":311.93,"text":"你不只把它調到一萬一百元就要給兩千塊少買幾顆飛彈就有了"},{"start":315.916,"end":339.13,"text":"不然你要做得更好 我跟你講你調到一萬一千一百一十元 一定讚 一定好我看農民街道的反省 選票會更多 就要給三千塊你看喔 這個市值很奇怪 一一一一起來 你看有事嗎 我覺得要調到一萬一千塊"},{"start":341.072,"end":367.367,"text":"我要跟委員報告每條高一千塊要增加六十三億的這些國庫的一個支出那我們設計這樣子的一個金額是根據CPI的部分我們用專業的角度去評估而不是用其他的角度去評估今天幾顆飛彈就有了今天幾顆農民的支持很重要是你們基本的力量我還是希望委員能夠支持一定贊"},{"start":369.208,"end":388.439,"text":"希望委員能夠支持我們農業部的一個專業的評估啦我自己建議啦再來這個排富條款裡面大家一直在談個人所有土地區房屋財產這方面真的要改善你們到現在都沒有動作我們已經全部排富了喔"},{"start":389.366,"end":407.858,"text":"我們全部排富了唯一自住宅本來四百萬嘛現在都不用了現在完全都拿掉了都拿掉了對那往來的其他的財產我都唯一自住的全部拿掉了然後財產的部分從五百萬變成一千零二十五萬我現在繼續講兩年五六我講過幾次苗栗縣政府投資一億"},{"start":414.203,"end":426.96,"text":"給土地自己買的營運你們的姚市長我也請教了好幾次全力以協助幫忙會照你們的計畫來進行這個新的計畫我覺得姚市長很有觀念"},{"start":428.138,"end":438.11,"text":"我們會教你來做我們是第一個照你們新的計畫來做我希望部長全力的支持 請會上我們同仁去看標示我的支持然後第一點就是說"},{"start":444.017,"end":467.206,"text":"相對的一定是要後續要去簽到苗栗縣政府那考慮蓋豪以後的怎麼樣去營運才重要營運競爭力都很重要營運很重要啦這個我有信心苗栗縣政府會做得很好營運會來所以相對的他們提出來的報告我們會請他們再修正我特別拜託因為我長期苗栗縣是最後一棟的兩面物流"},{"start":468.326,"end":493.164,"text":"當做你們實驗啦這個做得好以後照這個方式來做就一定會成功我想我們冷鏈物流在各個地方都已經做了蠻多的我們已經很有經驗然後我們也看到其實很多重要的後續的營運主體才是重點啦所以我們一直希望苗栗苗栗在蓋的時候規劃的時候就要把營運主體先選定我們後面做的把前面的缺點都把它棄置掉後面有的拜託部長 拜託市長"},{"start":497.027,"end":523.04,"text":"結果蓋好以後那個營運主體出了問題這一點我很認同你們的看法跟觀點好不好再來你報告的第11頁裡面強化漁業產業的韌性及資源永續的利潤我看了一條很重要的就是說你們準備在114年一定以苗栗彰化"},{"start":524.56,"end":544.936,"text":"禁岸的那個禁岸的風場裡面協調設置一支吊一夜示範兩次輔導成立那裡面是在哪裡呢苗栗彰化苗栗就在龍鳳漁港它是我們離岸風力第一座的示範地區對不對這很重要喔為什麼呢"},{"start":548.749,"end":565.601,"text":"因為現在發覺漁獲量都增加了很多而且是大條的像他們這一年裡面的收穫都非常的好所以一支釣的成立啊我們王市長要特別拜託我一定要了解也請部長支持"},{"start":567.438,"end":586.298,"text":"我一定支持因為風場齁它會影響到我們的資源那微網的部分是很難去處理所以開發這個一支釣的部分讓魚比較不會受傷讓它的單價變高齁我希望說漁民透過這個方式能夠提高他的收入那YES我真的要稱讚你你能想到這個地方"},{"start":587.098,"end":603.368,"text":"我那邊還有一個非常台灣最大的砍殼班的社區在成立而且都已經在運作了我們縣政府還調了150萬給我們砍殼的那些是那個塑膠板的那些出黨的我跟你們申請了好幾次都不給"},{"start":604.289,"end":616.629,"text":"然後我就到縣政府 拜託我縣長他說好 沒有問題這事只能讓你仔細想想做 只是再三分鐘啊拜託一下 做一下 不然我壓力很大我簡單講的就好了"},{"start":619.925,"end":635.841,"text":"我的壓力很大所有的看護班 到現在一直掉龍鴻漁港的那個那個什麼不是定置網 定置網好像是在通宵跟厭雨的地方我們那邊有兩個定置網還有龍鴻漁港"},{"start":640.385,"end":655.882,"text":"那個漁獲直銷中心明天要去看剛好結合在一起非常好農獲漁港在苗栗不算大但是全省排名第八名我們有信心進到前三名只有部長支持我們這個農獲漁港的直銷中心"},{"start":659.471,"end":684.945,"text":"我想農會漁港的折銷中心我們已經提供一些經費做一些規劃但是我們也是要去提醒規劃歸規劃但是相對的折銷中心後面怎麼樣讓業者漁民這些攤販能夠進來我覺得這是非常重要的我那個交通地點非常好人才齊備在那邊都是覺得最新最好的方式來進行明年會勘我會親自打我對這個很重視"},{"start":687.566,"end":693.391,"text":"因為我為了龍鴻漁港我開了一個將近十億的道路直接聯絡到那一邊好不好"},{"start":695.084,"end":714.822,"text":"也要部長點頭 王市長你點頭 你要在會議去現刊嘛還有縣裡漁港的那個拋沙 幾十年都沒有辦法解決 拜託給他這都要補好大條 那個風波砂也不用去挖掘 這樣幾十年都沒有辦法改觀廣告就可以處理了啦 廣告就可以處理了啦"},{"start":719.106,"end":723.229,"text":"什麼管路會去處理,我免得吵吵他,我後面找你順勢好不好,謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167607","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167607","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053c021877bbbeb8a2675f3d6415d2a29ea4d1c9dfa77de209814d5e53a528fd4095ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許智傑","委員發言時間":"11:06:05 - 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我們請部長請林部長部長早安部長好是我看部長壓力一定很大那個剛辛純講說那個台中要不可取代的城市是那我們主席是台南那我是高雄"},{"start":30.428,"end":44.503,"text":"所以這個全部都要把台灣變成世界啦不可取代的國家就是除了硬體之外我想軟體也是我們必須要非常努力的部分那"},{"start":47.435,"end":67.783,"text":"我們大概3月底樹化部會有一個產業座談這是我從去年就一直要求也參與過多次就是我們高雄地區海嵐的建設所以在去年的3月然後去年的6月跟12月我自己也在"},{"start":68.923,"end":92.217,"text":"高雄辦的AI行農還有AI漁業還有AI商圈的這些座談會那我們也希望說這些AI的應用可以落實在我們的生活當中那針對這個數位港的部分先請教一下部長我們大致上什麼時候可以完成"},{"start":94.906,"end":117.675,"text":"蘇維港是我想這個是我們一直持續在推動的一件事情所以比較難說是確定說哪時候完成我們應該是想說這個是我們現在就是很重要一件事情是那個算力中心那我們知道說現在有一些台灣的民間的大廠他這個算力中心的選址都會在南部謝謝"},{"start":118.875,"end":131.812,"text":"南部的那個電力比較充足然後南部的那個就是也是我們現在政府一直希望說把高科技產業不需要通通集中在北部那以前傳統上一些硬體產業像說那個"},{"start":134.996,"end":152.152,"text":"我們那個台積電等等以前都是在新竹到台北之間所以現在都全台灣佈局了對 全台灣都佈局了那已經北部這個地方已經過度擁擠了那我們是希望往中南部的就是分散所以我現在希望說要要求跟拜託部長就是說我們從"},{"start":155.984,"end":176.015,"text":"台灣是台積電護國神山是世界的翹楚這個在硬體上面其實是沒有問題的那硬體布局台灣其實也各地都有這個我們也謝謝台積電跟我們中央的努力還有地方的爭取那現在就是說我們相關的配套"},{"start":177.046,"end":196.132,"text":"譬如說我們數位港 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招商一方面是用國家的角度去投資把這些AI應用的大引擎扣到台灣來那像現在舊金灣食育他們那邊有很多的AI獨角獸他們是否不同的項目嘛"},{"start":639.845,"end":658.274,"text":"我們如果國家不管是我們一起投資或是招商來至少國家有這樣子一個佈局未來所有的AI應用的大的引擎或者是大的公司在台灣可以更多這就是我們的目標對這個部分目標不錯啦事務部本來就有設定這樣子的目標那大概"},{"start":664.797,"end":690.993,"text":"那個進度齁 我希望說如果有機會的話 那個蘇華部可以幫忙整理一些進度那我們一方面也可以來了解這個目標實現的機會有多大啦或者是速度有多快時間差不多啦 好那重點就是說我們最後一個簡單的結論啦這個大家都會講到黃仁勳 他說莫定力已到了盡頭啦所以這個加倍已經"},{"start":692.674,"end":717.998,"text":"已經算是小case了將來是加數十倍數百倍都不一定所以我是希望說這個部分希望說我們蘇化部可以做這樣的規劃也希望說那個部長整理一下資料實際下也讓我對這一部分有更多的了解那就拜託那個部長請蘇化部整理一下資料了解一下這些大引擎動作進度到哪裡好 謝謝委員的提醒與支持好 謝謝我們謝謝"},{"start":721.041,"end":722.301,"text":"許智傑委員的發言"}]}},{"id":"167614","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167614","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053e4bb86c51b64ce5ff85a32efe0b6ef7a4d1c9dfa77de20989b283f5c5a56e13d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"11:19:35 - 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還有大內這些東西你們在尋找地點的時候 你稍微探聽一下啦"},{"start":176.789,"end":199.708,"text":"不好 隆東隆碧已經很多的地方 啊你再用一個那個蓄水池在那邊邊際效益不大嘛 對不對你不可以聽電話說要清除 這是不是電費條呢對啊 這要花很多錢耶部長我想後續齁 就是第一個部分就是地點的規劃我想我們後續會更跟委員討論 因為委員在地方在走動可能更清楚齁"},{"start":200.368,"end":216.117,"text":"第二個部分在五座的部分我們做合併發包大概在11月就能夠完工啦我知道但是後面四座的部分選址要很清楚了解而且四座選址完以後如果吃好會倒修不了解那我說你現在只有12座第二階段要幾座你也要地方要講一下啊"},{"start":216.797,"end":239.3,"text":"這個部分我想我們後續會跟委員來溝通 看看哪個地方是最好的最有效率的 這樣能達到公民的需求你不要像公共要採人頭門 靠你來採這個我們會注意這個才是真的需要公益性的考量另外一個部分 那個我想署長後面也在跟你搖耳朵那個漲水工很重要 我們灌溉海豚 因為灌溉海豚漲水工"},{"start":240.681,"end":249.35,"text":"我為了高百姓才這麼聰明你知道他們每天在看福利一直增加基本工資每天調這個數十年才調兩百也沒有底薪部長 人很難找要是你找不到薪水工你沒有把他基本的保障建立起來你會很麻煩"},{"start":262.042,"end":284.426,"text":"我跟委員報告 針對展翠工的部分第一線的工作其實我們已經有在規劃相關的怎麼樣去調整他的薪資的結構啦那這個部分因為薪資結構不是用業務會的人去處理啦所以我們也會再去跟人總這邊看看怎麼樣有錢到有錢 要打零工嘛要把它制度化嘛 好不好這個我們已經在規劃了 積極的面對這個問題啦這個勞動力不可缺啊"},{"start":288.027,"end":310.492,"text":"特別在第一線的我們一定要保障那這個一個月給本市還有一個很重要的事情 最近本市到這一個山區你看看中央兩行 除了芒果還有民旦都出問題芒果第一個問題是早期的這個佐果率不到五成空包蛋比例非常的高有一縮是人工躁雨所造成的"},{"start":311.312,"end":338.592,"text":"每年都有人工躁瘀的問題因為它的花就變黑啊 我想平時的花就變黑啊就不會結枝啊然後呢這裡頭有幾個嘛一個時間差一個是地面差還有一個呢是藥劑成分可以做調整為什麼每年都遇到這個問題部長我們要解決這個問題啊否則我們每年勘再勘再不完啦這是第一個第二個是文旦的這個部分文旦去年風災非常的嚴重以及於果樹的根部鬆動所以今年喔"},{"start":339.793,"end":356.892,"text":"那個根本沒有開什麼文旦花咧文旦花很久沒開咧這兩大造業簽不到佐果率這個節食率的問題可能減少有風險部長你要去面對啊我有一份報告特別說芒果跟文旦的部分因為它今年的開花的部分有的不如預期嘛但是"},{"start":357.812,"end":383.237,"text":"開發本身的結果率更重要啦所以我已經要求我們的改良團要隨時去掌握這個現況如果儘早能夠確認它可能會影響的話就要儘早去處理現在3月中現在就預估我們3月是必要的時候我們一起去會看一下還有一個就是說每次拿到這一個天然災害補助一段都要等半天以上啊看有什麼方式沒縮短不然你一開始補助我們要被問半年對啊"},{"start":383.777,"end":403.586,"text":"好不好 了解 我們針對氣象型的災損的品項 我們一陸續在開這個部分這兩點問題 事後給本席一個答覆啦那找個時間我們下去看一下啦好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席 謝謝謝謝郭國勇委員 部長先回座消費資源請賴瑞榮委員"}]}},{"id":"167613","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167613","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60535af675d5c9b46b2952e56fd78df8e6504d1c9dfa77de20987a26c39964b221c95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:13:50 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T加2或是這些交易時間還有包括這個領股交易都是未來我們要邁入國際股市是非常重要去關注的一些的趨勢好 那主委你認為說現在很多這一個許多的投資人"},{"start":166.83,"end":180.446,"text":"他就是用買零股的方式,支持國內的所有的不論是何種的產業啦那這樣也是以這個高科技或是AI產業為主啊那你認為這個現象正不正常?那你認為這個現象有鼓勵嗎?"},{"start":183.55,"end":199.882,"text":"我想資本市場是一個隨著我們環境演化過程當中就是說比如說就以我們最近我們台灣資本市場這過去一年來的表現我們歷經了這些過去歷史上台股歷史上最大的波動幅度"},{"start":200.703,"end":215.101,"text":"但是我們也承受了整個市場各位可以看到就是它的表現跟過去非常不一樣各種不同的投資人在不同的階段然後這個投資然後其實上它有各種的行為這是一個成熟市場慢慢應該"},{"start":215.962,"end":244.486,"text":"所以你認為這是承受市場的一個表現就是說我們有各式各樣的參與者就是說我們市場上有更多的參與者那實際上他有不同的預期不同的想法讓市場機制充分的發揮這本來就是一個市場應該要有的一個趨勢跟方向那請教一下主委就是說這個川普他宣布延後這個川習會一個月因為就是這個越南戰事大概也不知道哪時候會停所以他必須要留在華府"},{"start":245.306,"end":263.044,"text":"但是這也表示說有可能這個美伊戰爭至少會持續在一個月以上那這樣子的話呢那金管會對於這個新的一個趨勢或是說新的一個發展那有做什麼樣的一個準備嗎其實我們不只對這件事情我們對很多事情都有做準備沒有就這件事情因為本來預期可以短時間結束實際拉長了"},{"start":264.625,"end":286.522,"text":"其實我們一開始就有各種的劇本包括很快結束、很慢結束然後會變成持續的一個常態的狀況所以這個就在你們當初的這一個邊缺的這一個想像的劇本裡面就對了我們不能去猜說這是一定是哪個結果因為我們對於市場的關注一定是全方面的"},{"start":287.562,"end":307.92,"text":"那現在如果時間拉長了,也在你們想像的劇本裡面那怎麼去做因應呢?這個我當然不會在這邊對外說明,但是這些的細節不用啦沒有,就等於說我們看還是一樣一個根本就是最終它還是影響到基本面只是剛開始消息出來會影響到投資人的情緒"},{"start":309.381,"end":326.594,"text":"這時候呢假設今天大家就會去消化這樣的訊息比如說剛開始大家預期他很短結結束這時候呢這樣那個波動會呈現什麼樣態我們應該在這個時候是什麼時候判讀是一個正常的狀況還是說是一個已經市場失序我覺得一個資本市場成熟最重要讓他的"},{"start":327.795,"end":340.251,"text":"這個市場機制能夠充分的發揮不要有任何其他非理性因素介入這時候我們就想說在這個情況會產生什麼非理性因素我們該怎麼樣去預防這兩週的台股有點像坐雲霄飛車啊暴漲又暴跌"},{"start":343.735,"end":363.402,"text":"但是委員也慢慢注意到很多的消息如果說一直這樣因為我們資本市場會預先消化未來的訊息當一樣的訊息重複出現的時候它某種程度在前面已經反映過了所以除非是新的訊息我想這個大概就是一個資本市場我想像這麼大的一個事件"},{"start":364.042,"end":390.465,"text":"那我們全球的股市比如說台灣從開始那你說那像比如說台股這禮拜表現你認為說是對於這個戰爭的這個消息面的這一個反應稍微鈍化了嗎其實他就是消化已經現在的訊息我覺得現在台灣的資本市場投資人已經有能力去消化各式樣式只要你給他一個充分的資訊跟時間但是我們也擔心的比如說像台積電這種比較大的權值股會成為這個外資的提款機啊"},{"start":391.265,"end":409.719,"text":"我想主要是因為台積電這種世界級的公司已經成為國際各種資金不可或缺的標的這個進進出出跟比如說看壞看好其實已經不能用這個角度來看基本面當然是沒問題啦這大概都是消息面的問題我想各種的資金比如說你是一個"},{"start":410.76,"end":424.956,"text":"共同基金或是這些基金你本來就有一個結帳這些東西本來他進出買賣本來就非常正常那我們只是看說以現在的體量以現在的情況還有像國際整個經濟情勢來看的話都在預期的範圍之內啊都在預期的範圍之內"},{"start":427.639,"end":444.131,"text":"那請教一下這個虛擬資產服務法這個會期應該會送到立法院來做審查嗎如果正常的按照程序因為行政院已經完成審查就尊重行政院整個的程序那現在就是會把這個VASP跟這個穩定幣會納入這個納管就對了嗎對 開始有法源那請教主一個問題就是說"},{"start":451.956,"end":475.082,"text":"現在這個金管會對於這個穩定幣運用於這個供應鏈還有跨境支付的一個態度因為現在就是說有很多這個台商他們可能是跟國外做生意但是他們可能是收到這個穩定幣他們可能是收到美元的穩定幣然後呢他們如果想要來這個把錢再匯回台灣的時候有面臨到國內的銀行不收還有會計帳如何認列的問題是不是"},{"start":475.842,"end":495.972,"text":"第一個這有兩個問題一個就是說我們也請我們這個那個政經局針對目前是不是已經有發生這些問題就是會計的處理現在確實還要再來做做釐清比如說如何計算它的價值跟損益這些如何認定這確實是"},{"start":497.335,"end":520.787,"text":"那再來就剛才講國際匯兌的部分其實我們從其他國家的經驗裡面其實這個鏈上的交易常常不需要透過這個正式的管道比如說你我之間你願意接受這個東西我們錢包就直接對付當然假設要由金融機構來做一個比如說保管承載這種東西確實是需要有個我們的許可"},{"start":522.088,"end":536.606,"text":"跟那個制度的跟上這些都是未來都會把它補上就像我們現在開始在推動銀行在做那個虛擬資產保管業務這個就是個非常重要的點讓我們的銀行有辦法去承接像這個跟虛擬資產世界裡面做個連結所以這些問題要等到我們這一個專法"},{"start":539.75,"end":551.169,"text":"這個部分的話我們大概都先在做準備但是真的要真的具有法律上的實施的效力還是要等到法律但是這種準備不能等到出來才開始再做準備因為現在問題就已經有產生了"},{"start":554.121,"end":576.975,"text":"那你們的態度呢?對於這個運用於這個穩定幣運用於供應鏈還有跨境支付的一個你們的目前的一個態度沒有 我想喔 既然我們政策上已經決定未來要要有穩定幣的這樣一個市場那我們當然就要考慮它的出路這些出路呢 我們也會緊隨著國際上面他們現在做的比較安全的做法我們也會跟上"},{"start":578.601,"end":604.642,"text":"那再請教一下現在這個境外發行這個穩定幣比如說在現在最大的就是這個USDC還有這個USDT那可是他們是不是因為他們是在美國管理沒有經過台灣那如果說我們是要求他們有對他們來台灣來做買賣的話是有什麼樣的一個監管的機制在嗎"},{"start":605.242,"end":621.753,"text":"那我想是這樣就是未來我們的虛擬資產服務法裡面假設你要在那邊鑄造向台灣人不特定對象發行的話這時候就要經過我們的特許啦另外你在國際上已經發行的假設你要在我們的未來的那個VASP的交易平台交易的話要經過我們的許可"},{"start":622.906,"end":642.884,"text":"可是 譬如說這兩個是最大啊他目前沒有經過我們的許可嘛對不對對 現在的話未來就是他經過就是說應該講你許可設為是他已經在國際上流通對但是譬如說你要未來在我們的合規的交易所交易的這些的標的都要經過我們的許可跟同意好 OK 好 謝謝主席 謝謝主委好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167612","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167612","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60531e5c52736bbfcab118cbbd4f69c426c04d1c9dfa77de20989cea193b8358d2b45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"11:14:53 - 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谢谢主席 那请问石部长请石成良部长"},{"start":14.034,"end":40.887,"text":"主委好 石部長我們賴總統有推健康台灣政策當然我們去了解它也是因應我國人口結構的改變還有我們醫療照護需求的增加我們石部長本身也醫療備檢然後也做過健保署署長我們認為一個地區它在高齡人口達到一個數量其實就應該要有長照跟醫院的醫療需求"},{"start":41.707,"end":60.747,"text":"那现在针对之前我们在总执行也提过像我们桃园沿海我们认为这个整个医疗资源就是很匮乏那尤其那我们现在先讨论长照的部分那长照部分当然后来我们在观音大坡甲有一个长照园区在2025年"},{"start":62.088,"end":79.748,"text":"中巡有開始動工那當然他其實他從當初規劃到動工其實也花了大概8年的時間那這部分不知道部長對大坡角長照園區這部分了解嗎這個我比較陌生我還是請我們長照室市長"},{"start":82.257,"end":98.37,"text":"謝謝委員關心那這個案子因為是我們的部立桃園醫院提出計畫那用長照基金這邊補助他做這個200床的住宿床的一個規劃那目前其實整個案子應該"},{"start":99.991,"end":123.189,"text":"我們經費是應該是一百一十一年核定下去的一一一一零一一一那段時間核定下去那現在都是都在都在進行因為當時也有要必須要跟地方要去取得一些共識那也曾經委員也有曾經安排一次到實地看訪所以那個地方還涉及到說還要開路就是還要規劃這個這個路線所以其實問題是比較複雜的"},{"start":129.794,"end":155.295,"text":"當初規劃到動工其實也真的花了很長的時間那所以現在當然也感謝我們已經開始動工所以我們現在不知道了解他所有的進度都正常那目前進度到底到哪裡因為現在這個部分管控是我們衣服會在管控那這部分再幫我們了解一下我們衣服會其實一直在盯因為我希望今天跟部長提就是因為我們桃園沿海這個"},{"start":157.176,"end":179.664,"text":"我們一直講這個醫療資源匱乏那好不容易有這個長照園區希望部長能夠幫我們監督一下 讓這個工程順利讓它如期如此完成對對對這部分請部長幫我們多關心一下好所以那再來我們就討論醫療需求嘛那我們今天主要都是針對我們桃園沿海醫療需求的問題那"},{"start":181.465,"end":197.471,"text":"部長也知道我們一直在談部桃新屋分院從2023年我們就知道它的量能都滿窄在總諮詢也提過那當初也拜託我們行政院卓榮泰院長院長好像有指示部長請部長檢討我們沿海醫療資源的問題那"},{"start":202.593,"end":231.385,"text":"據我們了解部桃新屋分院他的徵件計畫我們查過從國發會1月份就已經送到行政院那不知道現在到底進步了目前已經正式核定了已經核定了我們趕快動所以因為我有看國發會的建議國發會也直接寫希望行政院盡快核定表示他們也認為這個急迫性跟重要性那可是後來我們也有了解"},{"start":232.646,"end":249.226,"text":"部桃醫院好像針對很多請他們要自籌經費這一部分他們認為好像有很大的困擾是不是這樣新屋這邊沒有問題是那個桃園醫院我們現在有兩個案子一個是新屋分院新屋分院這個已經核定了這個沒有問題經費沒有問題了"},{"start":251.408,"end":274.407,"text":"那再來是那個我們那個桃園醫院就是那個本院的地方那個我們也要有新建那個一個大樓所以那個部分的還在審查中那個預算還在爭取所以部桃醫院新屋分院經費自籌款的部分不會有問題那個OK 那個OK那所以目前新屋分院整備計畫趕快來動 要來開始動了"},{"start":276.789,"end":297.817,"text":"好所以那也不會有自籌款的問題嗎那個還好主要是那個桃園醫院這部分真的拜託部長因為大家都很期望因為我們沿海這醫療資源當初我們都講過整個桃園就是沿海跟南區這醫療資源非常匱乏所以這個"},{"start":298.897,"end":316.916,"text":"目前看到最有機會就是部桃新屋分院的徵建計畫所以大家很多民眾啊像我們陽梅觀音新屋大園整個沿海甚至平鎮農產其實對於這個南區部桃新屋分院的徵建計畫大家都引頸很久"},{"start":317.836,"end":342.847,"text":"這部長這一部分希望部長我們希望我們會去這個壯大這個桃園醫院的量能包含跟新屋分院這邊我們的期待是希望讓這個我們的部桃能夠成為醫學中心來發展所以他現在已經通過重度級急救責任醫院希望他也能夠讓新屋這邊也提升起來這樣好對因為這也牽扯到我們"},{"start":343.607,"end":371.557,"text":"周邊有一個觀音工業區它是我們全台灣北部最大的工業區這我們也提過很多次它每天去上班的人最少3萬人以上而且它裡面有很多的行業像金屬製品製造業機械設備製造業電子零組件製造業還有一些比較特別像化學材料化學製品的製造業那我們現在一直很擔心萬一真的有發生什麼公安方面的問題"},{"start":372.597,"end":389.427,"text":"那在第一時間他要去周邊都沒有一些大型的醫療院所而且也沒有急診室所以我們那時候是有提是不是針對這部分緊急醫療網路的部分在工業區內或者甚至"},{"start":389.927,"end":408.923,"text":"就应该要有急诊室或者一些比较大型的医疗院所当然布陶新屋分院也是一个好的方法也是一个好的院所但是毕竟其他的观音工业区过去车程要30分钟以上所以我们针对"},{"start":410.144,"end":429.11,"text":"這個部分是不是應該在這個大型的工業區內或者周邊短城內是不是應該要有增加這個醫療資源急診室或者一些大型的院所甚至是不是應該要針對它的產業類別應該要有一些去做一些比較相關的專責醫院"},{"start":431.017,"end":446.618,"text":"我想因為這個工業區的關係比較擔心的就是一些公安意外的時候的緊急應變委員關切應該是屬於這一個那麼我再請議事司跟了解一下這裡面有沒有什麼特殊"},{"start":448.32,"end":468.5,"text":"需要應變,比如說毒化災,它需要特別的應變的,那我們來提升它的應變能力。當然這個也要跟主管機關大家來討論,因為要設這些站也好,或者是它的應變機制也好,可能我們要跨機關的合作。"},{"start":469.181,"end":485.508,"text":"所以我們說本身我們沿海南區醫療資源就很匱乏加上又有這麼大的工業區這麼多的產業類別所以我們希望衛福部是不是可以針對經濟部像依照不同的產業類別然後再跟勞動部針對各工業區內的職災復健照護這一部分是不是研議在工業區內"},{"start":491.77,"end":505.125,"text":"或者周邊能夠來設一些專責的相關醫院那一方面能夠提升我們醫療資源另外一方面也對我們工業區內這麼多的勞工也是一個保障所以這部分我們來針對這個產業園區"},{"start":509.048,"end":531.801,"text":"去設計他的緊急醫療網絡啦他發生一些緊急事件的時候他應該是應變醫院是在哪裡那或者是需要有一個前進的救護站的設計還是什麼我們這個我請醫事師來規劃那師傅可以幫我們演繹一下然後再給我們一個進度大概多久可以給我們看到這個相關的報告也是三個月啦"},{"start":532.501,"end":543.332,"text":"我們要跨單位去好那拜託因為這可能要跟經濟部、勞動部幾個部會研議一下那拜託部長三個月內給我們初步研議跟我們的規劃進度這個地方的一個緊急醫療應變的網絡跟計畫這樣好謝謝感謝謝謝部長謝謝委員謝謝投選局委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167598","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167598","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60538f252d201ea100fdd268b4a161496bd94d1c9dfa77de2098e2e11a24dcffeb0b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"10:54:22 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邀請核能安全委員會、經濟部、台灣電力股份有限公司就「我國核電廠再運轉之規劃及推動現況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月18日及19日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-03-18","start_time":"2026-03-18T10:54:22+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-18T11:06:07+08:00","duration":705,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-5-22-2"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":3.9797187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.050968750000001,"end":17.395343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.08721875,"end":21.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.816593750000003,"end":25.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.04284375,"end":36.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.03846875,"end":33.612218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.00034375,"end":34.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.227843750000005,"end":38.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.27784375,"end":63.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.46409375,"end":81.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.85784375,"end":92.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.13034375000001,"end":116.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.22784375,"end":128.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.09096875,"end":135.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.31346875,"end":141.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.93284375000002,"end":158.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.14534375000002,"end":174.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.97409375,"end":189.65534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.12784375,"end":199.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.89846875,"end":212.30159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.19596875000002,"end":237.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.59284375000001,"end":267.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.49534375,"end":277.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.01284375,"end":285.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.63596875,"end":287.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.45846875,"end":289.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.67346875000004,"end":312.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.60659375,"end":313.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.27721875000003,"end":333.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.58221875000004,"end":341.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.53034375000004,"end":346.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.16659375,"end":367.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.31096875000003,"end":378.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.02659375,"end":398.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.37784375,"end":400.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.81221875,"end":401.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.33096875,"end":402.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.33909375,"end":405.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.06034375,"end":407.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.15284375000005,"end":409.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.70534375000005,"end":418.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.83471875000004,"end":423.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.93096875000003,"end":452.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.17096875000004,"end":461.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.83221875000004,"end":467.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.41346875000005,"end":495.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.46409375,"end":505.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.89284375000005,"end":593.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.82846875,"end":626.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.7009687500001,"end":628.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.6540937500001,"end":633.0459687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.36659375,"end":652.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":647.15346875,"end":648.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.04284375,"end":705.96284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.37,"end":24.642,"text":"請吳思瑤委員進行詢答 請謝主席 非常開心我終於可以回到我最熱愛的教育文化委員會那今天第一次的質詢我請和安會的陳主委那經濟部的賴長次還有台電的許副總請三位機關代表上台"},{"start":32.156,"end":37.95,"text":"稍候一下,还有一位,没关系,没问题,慢慢来,慢慢来,慢慢走,辛苦了。"},{"start":40.516,"end":61.483,"text":"今天是河安會的業務報告也是我們的專報對於核電廠在運轉的規劃跟推動的現況我想我的破題非常的清楚重啟廚藝的核電廠是長路漫漫是道足且長它不是一蹴可及更不是箭在弦上這是非常清楚的一個現況下一頁"},{"start":63.724,"end":80.706,"text":"我前陣子正因為去支持WBC棒球賽我人在日本東京那個時候剛好是全日本各大媒體都在進行311大地震15週年的回顧所以我在東京人在日本的那個"},{"start":82.006,"end":96.321,"text":"期間我大量的閱讀了理解了日本人怎麼去審視生命的犧牲歷史的教訓帶給他們的省思311日本大地震的罹難人數15901位到去年還持續"},{"start":101.886,"end":125.061,"text":"在發現有罹難死亡的人數 他是攀升的失蹤的人口高達2519人而有家歸不得的避難人數還有26281位而嚴守地區 宮城地區 福島地區所流失的人口他被迫離開他的故鄉有264100人"},{"start":129.244,"end":158.323,"text":"所以高市早苗首相也出席了15周年的追悼仪式我们看看日本我们要想想台湾的核能安全不可打折下一页而在三一震灾发生之后继任的首相安倍首相他大幅的来进行因为三一地震前运转中的日本的核电厂是54错但因为震灾之后全部停下来"},{"start":159.484,"end":174.099,"text":"安倍首相当时继任之后他做了非常重要的一件事情就是大规模的全面强化所有的日本核电厂的安全规格而他们花的时间也是三四年以上"},{"start":175.06,"end":198.838,"text":"从2011-311地震到全面重启不能讲全面重启透过安全规格的重新审视强化之后逐步恢复运转或除疫的最快也历经三四年以上的时间所以安全的再确认是需要时间的就如同台湾现在正在进行的"},{"start":199.972,"end":211.612,"text":"所以在54座日本的核电厂在311之后全数停下来以后呢经过三四年的安全规格的提升恢复运转的只有15座"},{"start":213.291,"end":237.649,"text":"已經通過安全審查但是他放棄了重新運轉有三座主要的理由就是日本的在地地方政府的反對跟民意的反彈所以不是通過安全審查就一定恢復因為也要社會溝通然後呢目前持續在審查中從311到現在15年了安全規格還在審查能不能夠重新運轉還有八座"},{"start":238.69,"end":267.399,"text":"而明確的不可以贏不安全有24座這是日本給我們的訊息也就是安全的審視在複合式的災害發生各國都在做即便是日本他們也花了至少三四年以上甚至15年以上都還在重新審視要不要重新恢復核電廠的運轉所以社會不應當給予過高的期待或是不合"},{"start":268.579,"end":287.331,"text":"不合道理的期待說台核三廠現在重啟再運轉的這個計畫是不是就可以再運轉而且要快這以對比日本的經驗並非如此我的資訊不管是陳主委或者是賴長次是不是都同意我的看法好那下一頁"},{"start":288.553,"end":313.524,"text":"所以说去年五月通过核管法的修法我们必须依法行政所以让已经执照借满的核电厂可以重新申请换照依法行政所以赖清德总统才提出我们依法是首要而安全不能打折核安会依法要定定安全审查的程序办法我们已经做了"},{"start":314.384,"end":332.762,"text":"然後台電要依法來規定自主安全的檢查正在ING嘛所以說未來依法之後的三個原則何安無虞何費有解社會共識要具足這些都還有漫漫長路不是一路可騎"},{"start":333.763,"end":351.032,"text":"这是我的立场也是我认为捍卫法治以及捍卫国人的安全我必须做的立场的宣示那这里就要就教于你们重启核电有谱了吗似乎政策就拍板了我们要重启核电了吗"},{"start":351.952,"end":364.769,"text":"我這裡列出來的台電提出再運轉計畫就是現在3月底要提出另外還有一個可能要花1.5年到2年之間還需要進行自主安全檢查對不對台電要過兩關嗎是不是"},{"start":368.374,"end":389.575,"text":"和安會要過四關嘛完備法規嚴謹審查強化管制強化社會溝通和安會還有四關而最終政府的立場政策要拍板要不要重啟核三還需要過和安無虞核廢有解社會共識的三關所以我認為還要"},{"start":391.316,"end":402.428,"text":"過五關斬六將甚至過八關斬八將過十關斬十將才有可能請問這些程序是不是如此誰要回答主委簡單回答吧是嗎"},{"start":404.44,"end":422.248,"text":"所以說呢下一頁just the beginning不是ending今天台電三月底要提出的核三再運轉計劃不等於重啟核電已經拍板yes也不等於核三再運轉可以上路已經夠了"},{"start":424.005,"end":452.231,"text":"It's just beginning不是一個終局不是ending這個我們要清楚的向社會來論述而且我就教於看是賴長治還是台電許副總除以後老化的狀況是不是能夠符合再運轉的條件我們可以再展延使用幾年呢以及進行地震的危害分析核電廠的安全無虞了嗎這三件事情是不是就包含在你們再運轉計畫的重中之重"},{"start":454.389,"end":469.466,"text":"委員點出了關於核能安全的一個重要性跟它的影響那確實包括老化的狀況符合再運轉的條件可以再使用幾年事實上台電公司跟西屋公司已經簽了備忘錄"},{"start":470.948,"end":494.389,"text":"需要去进行这方面的确认之外那相关的自主安全检查还要经过同彩的审认所以安全是一个最重要的在一个安全的基础之下才有办法去进行后面的一个事项那所以我们关顾于安全希望透过这个核安会严谨的审查的程序来确认以上的"},{"start":495.51,"end":509.463,"text":"所以说就像一位最近运动很夯我举一个例子生活化的例子大家比较容易理解就像一位运动员他已经退役了他可能离开运动场了"},{"start":510.463,"end":533.038,"text":"他认为我好像可以再回到运动场去参加竞技比赛他必然要经过完整的体检他的状况这个运动选手他的所有的老化状况他的生理机能他的心理调试适不适合再回到运动场上为国家拼勤白他必须透过一个基本的运动员的体检"},{"start":534.039,"end":559.912,"text":"如果可以那他大概還可以再研議幾年國家來依據這位運動員量身定做他的再訓練計畫他的這些再推廣計畫能夠參加譬如說望眼2028的巴黎奧運或者是之後對不起未來下一屆的奧運或是之後的賽事他必然先體檢再提出投資這個運動員的評估具體可行的時程"},{"start":563.314,"end":591.822,"text":"才能够让他恢复一个现役运动员的身份我这样的举例我希望让社会能够比较有助于清楚的理解台电即便依核管法的修法提出核三再运转的计划他只是just the beginning第一步要先确认核三除以后他的老化状况能不能够符合安全再运转的条件这是我今天质询很重要的重点最后一页再30秒就好"},{"start":592.822,"end":602.025,"text":"最後一頁有很多媒體就開始在散佈說賴清德總統說2027年就要重啟核三了然後呢綠能是錯的我們綠能就不要了因為已經要走核電了這個總統府經濟部行政院已經多次澄清就是我今天為什麼花了這麼多時間在論述Just the beginning我們沒有馬上就進入核三除以之後再運轉 go"},{"start":619.031,"end":627.976,"text":"沒有這件事情安全依法有程序而綠能因此good bye了嗎沒有來次長簡單的回應"},{"start":629.813,"end":651.074,"text":"多元的綠能一直在能源轉型重要的一環那不但是我們要提供給企業足夠的這個綠電來讓他在出口的競爭力上面對減碳的部分也是我們關乎的目標以去年為例的話我們經濟成長率只交出一個亮麗的成績單但是我們的電力排放係數還在下降"},{"start":652.455,"end":670.767,"text":"是所以说国力就是电力电力就是国力我支持行政部门进行台湾的二次能源转型即便是我们愿意接受全世界先进的新式核能技术这个SMR也许可能是选项但是"},{"start":671.167,"end":695.447,"text":"能源的多元化是没有退路的我们对于太阳能对于风力对于现在积极发展的地热小水利氢能源等等我们都没有停止绿能还是国家的现在进行式也是台湾发展的必要我想清楚的讯息传达给大家我们就继续依法行政"},{"start":696.007,"end":704.557,"text":"安全不打折然后要fulfill三大前提才有下一步辛苦大家继续努力谢谢"}]}},{"id":"167569","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167569","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053460258de629401c475f3d6415d2a29ea854b2f19bd25f700b11edd5d93528f7f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"萬美玲","委員發言時間":"09:28:51 - 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當然受害者就會比較多那我們根據民團展翅協會的統計去年檢舉的熱線受理了將近2500件兒少性影像的一個案件"},{"start":56.759,"end":83.429,"text":"而且兒少我真的覺得非常可惡啦那其中就發現58個網路平台提供了AI換臉一鍵托育的功能然後本席就看到衛福部這個保護司統計兒少性影像申訴的案件從112年修法以後56件到114年暴增到1033件那這是我們可以看到的數字那也許還有黑數那就更可怕那其中兒少身為性影像的案件數也從過去一鍵"},{"start":85.39,"end":105.786,"text":"那到現在已經來到九件了那我覺得他其實不會按照這樣的速度他速度一旦往上的時候那受害者非常的多所以這個表格您可以看一下那但是我們看到根據AI產出的性影像雖然可以透過兒少性剝削防治條例去下架我們這個不當性影像但是呢下架畢竟是後端了"},{"start":106.707,"end":130.053,"text":"我們對於這個產出這個信息上的AI工具的軟體現在是無法可管而且這個狀況就陷入了治標不治本那你對這個問題怎麼看是委員講得非常對那我們現在最大的問題不是單單我無法可管而已因為很多的這個雲端的這些工具事實上它的位置都在國外所以我們在司法上我們並沒有管轄權"},{"start":131.373,"end":152.656,"text":"所以這個是很多國家都非常頭大的一個問題所以您這樣的回答我覺得就是憂心忡忡聽起來說我們不但無法客觀因為他在境外我就更沒有辦法管但我覺得聽到這樣子我想國人心碎了一地沒關係我們有解決方案我可以跟委員報告我們有解決方案是我們有解決的方法第一個就是說我們大概給你30秒"},{"start":154.218,"end":175.239,"text":"第一個我們就是快速的下架比如說這個兒少好那另外一個我們就是要求標示就是有AI產生的影像我們希望他做標示然後我們也希望標示清楚對說這是AI產生的然後所有違法的部分我們會跟衛福部合作縮短這個下架的時程盡快下架再來"},{"start":177.096,"end":193.226,"text":"基本上就是這兩個大方面就是下架還是下架嘛所以本席剛剛提的因為你給我 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我跟委員解釋嘛就是說已經都是在比特幣它都弄在一起了你也分不清楚這個比特幣裡面哪些是台灣從台灣來哪些是從日本來哪些是從韓國來根本就分不清楚了那現在這些錢是由美國政府把它查扣了那我們必須去跟美國政府講"},{"start":566.664,"end":588.274,"text":"困難問題他都存在喔但我們看2024年8月的時候當時法務部我覺得很棒啊他因為協助美國偵辦這個販毒洗錢案而且還押扣返還了這個約1600萬美元的不法資產這個過程不會比我們現在感覺輕鬆啦可是美方在扣除各項費用之後台灣還獲得分享700萬美元的這個返還"},{"start":591.736,"end":598.342,"text":"有成功的案例在嘛 所以速發部加油一下我們想辦法在這個案件上跟我們的外交部跟法務部再努力一下好不好好 那這個案子可行不可行我們也要一個報告來我們委員會好不好好 我們謝謝萬美玲委員好 謝謝速發部"}]}},{"id":"167568","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167568","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053c51c4bf71af036c675f3d6415d2a29ea854b2f19bd25f700b11edd5d93528f7f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳清龍","委員發言時間":"09:20:03 - 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我們現在大家在講說養龍蝦講的其實是那個最近有一個很紅的叫做Open Cloud的開源軟體那這個就是所謂的Agentic AI那我們以前用那個ChatGPT等這種AI工具的時候就是它純粹是跟我們對話不會跟現實的世界產生任何的那個互動"},{"start":89.35,"end":113.335,"text":"但是有這個Agentic AI以後呢就是說我們這個可以透過那個Open Cloud就是這個我們講的說龍蝦這個軟體我就可以讓這個LLM這些大型語言軟體去幫我做一些事情譬如說他可以幫我在在YouTube上面發布影片然後也可以幫我去訂機票等等那是"},{"start":114.315,"end":132.732,"text":"那你不只要說有掌握嘛之類那我在這邊想請教既然我們現在的這種AI代理的這樣的一個數位助理就這樣的開源式的一個AI代理程式那已經廣泛在運用那尤其我們看到"},{"start":133.613,"end":160.129,"text":"包括我剛剛講的會展也都要來開發了但是從剛剛部長所談我們就了解這樣的運用用AI來使用AIAI來運用AIAI來使用AI我們產生的這樣的一個高效率我們是看到它正面正面的一項那我想請教部長這樣的一個"},{"start":164.332,"end":179.232,"text":"一個養龍蝦這樣的一個open crowd這樣的一個這樣的代理的一個城市它在風險 治安的風險你這邊有沒有任何的一個看法"},{"start":180.336,"end":202.498,"text":"OK的確大家都注意到因為這個龍蝦可以幫我們做很多事情他甚至可以使用我們的信用卡去網路上去買一些東西或者買一些服務所以現在所謂的風險除了個資以外甚至有時候會幫幫我們去刷卡然後刷了很多很多的錢讓我們那個一覺醒來發現說我的那個錢包破了一個洞那因為這個原因所以事實上昨天"},{"start":203.318,"end":214.682,"text":"就是那個輝達黃仁勳他也宣布說他們要做一個叫NEMO CLAWNEMO CLAW就是在那個OPEN CLAW上面的基礎上面他們做了一些加強那這些加強主要就是在那個資安方面的加強資安我們就了解嘛"},{"start":220.464,"end":238.336,"text":"就是Open Cloud有它的資安風險還是很高所以黃恩興他們要推的就是Nemo Cloud希望在資安風險在企業的引用能夠更加的在風險安全上能夠更加的控制嘛對不對我們這樣有論點是對的好"},{"start":240.797,"end":261.454,"text":"那既然我們都知道有風險 是但是我們現在也很多用戶在養龍蝦 是對不對 那風險又存在那我要請教 那我們速發部啊我們針對這樣的資安風險我們有跟上嗎 我們有什麼計畫的作為嗎"},{"start":263.456,"end":289.086,"text":"是委員這個問題非常好因為現在AI的發展非常快速事實上我們在書發部在於AI的監理上一直有一個必須做平衡一方面是我們希望說做一些監管保護大家的資安等方面的安全但是另外一方面我們又擔心說太多的監管會阻礙到科技的發展事實上這個也是歐盟跟美國我跟你講"},{"start":290.54,"end":303.172,"text":"部長我們的速度要快我們身為數位部我們管理對治安的一個建立我們一定要跟上我們AI的速度那現在很簡單"},{"start":305.774,"end":323.508,"text":"我們已經看到大陸已經限制公部門還有國家的企業都不能養紅蝦我們也看到包括Meta、Google、微軟、Amazon等等也都禁止員工來使用Open Cloud"},{"start":324.088,"end":337.84,"text":"那大陸昨天他的國家安全部也公布了所謂一個龍蝦安全養殖手冊來示警養龍蝦可能會面臨的風險等等"},{"start":340.302,"end":354.498,"text":"那我在這邊我們認為我們事發部是否已經也啟動這樣的一個風險評估有沒有任何的一個相關指引的作為那我們有沒有"},{"start":355.219,"end":377.401,"text":"在演繹我們的速度上能夠是不是也可以來評估啊我們來發布我們的農家安全的一個手冊等等這些措施市發部有沒有準備是委員講得非常好謝謝委員的提醒但是因為這個科技的發展實在太快了對啊真的很快啊"},{"start":378.482,"end":395.267,"text":"譬如說前天我們認為說那個Open Cloud有很多的資安風險可是昨天那個黃恩勳又發表了那個Nemo Cloud以後他很多那個之前前天發生的那個風險昨天已經就是被他解決掉所以今天我們在這裡討論的AI的專題報告是沒錯那我們已經看到AI的整個快速的這樣的指數型的快速逆轉"},{"start":404.75,"end":418.476,"text":"我們期待速發不要跟著上時代這是最重點的速度速度是非常重要的對我們的一個速度跟安全嘛要相對所以我在這裡特別"},{"start":420.677,"end":444.911,"text":"也要求我們樹發部要特別來努力好不好這個養龍蝦的安全關係著社會大眾關係著企業希望能夠跟上腳步那在這裡我們還要補充跟樹發部我也做一點要求跟肯定是 謝謝詐騙是國人大家真的就是覺得是一個很嚴重的問題"},{"start":446.171,"end":471.35,"text":"那林部長有跟我提到我們打詐過去我們跟日本要調資料要兩個月現在縮短到三天我想這對打詐很有幫助但是我們目前對Meta Google這些平台我們還要多久如果需要調閱資料"},{"start":473.646,"end":482.795,"text":"我們現在Meta跟Google目前Meta應該也很快多快三天也是三天吧Google比較慢一點"},{"start":495.069,"end":510.869,"text":"一個月所以我們期待我們樹花部繼續努力好不好如果我們的目標也是三天所以我們打炸才有幫助這是我們提取的好不好 美麗樹花部我們加油好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167549","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167549","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053c5625b3fe2f6ea21f85a32efe0b6ef7af13775304d9d746a551992b9489857505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱議瑩","委員發言時間":"09:21:43 - 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部長剛剛聆聽了一下您的報告我想有一個最新的也不是最新 有一個時事您上禮拜剛從東京食品展回來我看到這次東京食品展其實台灣的櫃位還算是大我自己本身也去跑了一趟不過根據媒體的報導這次農業部帶的商家"},{"start":29.215,"end":49.376,"text":"剪到了11家對我們來講這應該是一個很大幅的減少那到底為什麼會剪到了只有11家那你們說是因為預算的關係我不是很清楚到底這個中間的關聯性是什麼第二個我想請部長您簡要的來報告一下東京食品展的成效"},{"start":51.241,"end":69.709,"text":"我想謝謝委員的關心其實東京食品展農業部就是結合了今年是11家那其實往年是大概12到15家左右那我們考量的就是其實我們農業部的一個主展場應該有效的結合地方政府因為地方政府"},{"start":70.209,"end":86.06,"text":"大部分有15個縣市都有在那邊擺攤那我們希望說未來就是一個入口就是農業部的一個展場他規劃了一個台灣的image在那邊希望能夠將人潮引到那個地方所以未來不會是農業部自己單獨帶了幾家廠商去"},{"start":88.602,"end":105.967,"text":"所有的台灣管區做結合跟各縣市政府去做結合是這樣嗎對 這樣的話才會更有效率這是我想我們我們開始思維改變的一個重點那第二個重點就是我們這次帶去的一個最主要我說的就是我們帶去的米香 果香 茶香跟魚香"},{"start":107.127,"end":129.307,"text":"那米香的部分特別是米的部分我們有很好的成果那我這邊也不方便說在日本的時候我去拜會了非常關鍵的這些人物那特別討論到稻米的部分那稻米的部分除了鮮食的鮮米的供應以外那未來有沒有機會用台灣的米跟結合日本的清酒釀造技術"},{"start":130.407,"end":149.293,"text":"變成台灣米做成的日本的清酒那這個是另外一個更大的一個商機那這個商機我想後續我想我會再跟委員們做一個說明然後協助大家一起來努力那另外水果部分也是一樣有非常多的商機那還有一個重點就是我們的有機的相關的"},{"start":151.273,"end":167.72,"text":"認證等同那個同等性認證以外日本已經授權我們在台灣直接標日本的有機的產品的標籤不用說貼了台灣以後去到日本再改標那還有簽署了一些MOU的部分我想這個成果後續我們會統計出來以後再跟委員報告好"},{"start":168.32,"end":194.295,"text":"所以我想部長您的看法就是說今年的東京食品展在台日雙方尤其是台灣的食品或者是蔬果生鮮蔬果進口到日本去其實成效來講您算是滿意的對我看買家的這些詢問的氣氛我覺得它比往年都還要熱度還要高"},{"start":195.39,"end":209.034,"text":"那未來其實我想未來我覺得農業部在外銷的這個區塊上面應該要再更加的加強包括我們一直在講這個台美對等貿易協定簽署之後對台灣農業的整體的衝擊這個部長我想"},{"start":215.441,"end":239.047,"text":"這個整個協定裡頭對台灣優勢的地方我覺得這個很清楚但是對台灣或許有一些劣勢的地方到底農業部有沒有做好整體的這一些評估那這些評估報告什麼時候可以比如說在立法院裡頭或者是來跟國人做一些說明或者是在你們整體的施政的政策上面"},{"start":239.847,"end":253.574,"text":"能夠有更具體的作為這一點我其實到目前為止還沒有完全的清楚甚至部長您剛剛講到的原來我們的預算裡頭在這個任性特別條例的預算裡頭大概有匡列了190億跟農業相關的預算那現在總統希望在農業安全的部分能夠把它擴大到300億"},{"start":263.599,"end":276.446,"text":"那你這個300億從191億到300億這個300億要做什麼哪一些部分是優先哪一些部分會特別去加強可不可以請部長您在這裡來說明一下"},{"start":278.727,"end":301.482,"text":"跟委員說明就是在整個對美對等關稅談判過程中其實我們對於整個的品項都有做一個完整的一個衝擊的分析因為談判過程中我們有我們的堅持但是美方也有美方的要求所以我們一直堅持的希望能夠守護我們該守護的這些品項比如說你把這些品項我們守護的品項"},{"start":302.022,"end":320.078,"text":"我想基本的守住一個稻米的部分那是因為從事人口最多的部分而且是我們的糧食安全的一個保障那另外在雞肉的部分我們也守住了那相關的這樣的一個品項的一個守住那像文革好像一些大蒜"},{"start":321.399,"end":345.158,"text":"這個都是比較敏感的區域性的產品我們都守住了那但不可諱言的在有一些開放在討論的過程中有一些勢必要去開放的部分但是在開放部分其實我們也擬妥了因應政策一個非常重要的觀念就是我們有時候擔心美國的產品的價格比台灣的低那我們一直希望建立一個觀念我們不能再用"},{"start":346.058,"end":361.403,"text":"價格的競爭去比較產品我們應該提升到價值的競爭我們應該用價值就是包含的品質那透過品質才去處理這樣的一個農產品第二個部分剛才委員提到的就是180億跟300億之間的差異"},{"start":364.324,"end":381.88,"text":"那181當初只是純粹對外銷的產業的一個支持那300億的龍安基金是針對整體的台美貿易那貿易有一些進口進來可能會造成衝擊的那我們就會用這樣的一個基金的一個經費來協助產業做升級跟它的優化"},{"start":384.963,"end":402.959,"text":"所以你這個產業升級跟優化有沒有包括比如說我們在智慧農業裡頭所需要的這一些系統啊 設備啊或者是我們一直在談到這個冷鏈的設施我們如果要外銷要外銷到其他的國家去我覺得台灣的整體的冷鏈設備包括一連串從產地"},{"start":405.441,"end":428.873,"text":"從田間到賣場這一連串的這個保溫的系統保冷的系統是不是在這一連串的這個規劃裡頭會在300億的經費裡面去協助農民或者是協助產銷合作社等等您所說的外銷冷面的部分在現在的190億事實上其中的10億是跟"},{"start":429.713,"end":456.966,"text":"跟那個漁船的那個AIS有關的181裡面就可以來執行了所以我們特別是產業的一個升級裡面一個非常重要的冷鏈的一個建制在現在的情況就不用等到台美關稅確認以後去啟動這個農安基金在這個181就可以執行第二個部分就是冷鏈我們也爭取到了第二期的計畫那第二期計畫同時也會去爭會去啟動這樣的一個冷鏈特別是針對外銷的部分"},{"start":457.657,"end":458.824,"text":"部長你講到第二期計畫的這個錢在哪裡"},{"start":461.513,"end":486.654,"text":"你爭取的第二期計畫預算在哪裡?錢會在哪裡?那個今年的總預算到現在都沒有審我都很擔心你今年的錢不知道下不下的來如果萬一下個月開始來個大雨或者七八月來個颱風你的天然災害災損基金到底能不能撥?到底能不能做?那您跟我講說第二期的冷鏈計畫我也不知道這個錢"},{"start":488.345,"end":514.805,"text":"你可能已經有規劃 有底 是但是立法院一直沒過啊對我來講 對農民來講 那就是有一個大病在那看得到吃不到啊這就是我們一直擔心的就是我們農業部其實有很好的一個規劃來協助農民但是總預算如果沒過的時候那相對 特別是在新政的計畫的部分就沒有辦法動之那有一些是延續的是可以先動之去年的額度但是"},{"start":515.666,"end":541.873,"text":"新的計畫跟舊的計畫一定有關聯性不能一刀就這樣切開來的所以我還是希望說就是大院這邊能夠盡快的審查我們的總預算部長因為我的時間已經到我想其實還有很多的問題要跟您請教但是我覺得在糧食安全在於台灣的這些蔬果做外銷我們很努力的去推動的這個同時其實有一些基礎的設施基礎的設備"},{"start":543.593,"end":548.043,"text":"基礎的這個基本工基本工我們一定要做得好啦"}]}},{"id":"167554","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167554","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053bee7146cda5d7a8db086282839459da0f13775304d9d746a8ee19690b6fa94555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:28:28 - 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有請部長 鄭部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":18.668,"end":37.142,"text":"部長早安部長你看到我今天的題目詐騙集團比法務部更懂得利用刑法因為刑法是由法務部由你們來主管那我會形容詐騙某一些領域他的犯罪他的罪犯是在跟法務部賽跑"},{"start":38.183,"end":46.106,"text":"但是我覺得詐騙集團這個部分,顯然法務部落後了很多好,那我今天就是要跟部長來談這個詐騙集團的部分部長,2024年卓院長上任,他講的這個口號,鄭天祥你看看,你看看右邊,他說我會讓詐騙想騙的不敢騙,已經騙的會被抓"},{"start":61.733,"end":85.859,"text":"已經到手的梅德花信誓旦旦讓全民宣誓就是說國家這個打詐隊要有這個決心但是兩年過去了防部身為打詐這個國家隊的一個重要成員有讓我們看到成效嗎現在我們的感覺就是想詐騙的繼續騙已經騙到的不一定會被抓騙到手的大筆花"},{"start":91.038,"end":100.867,"text":"部長整個司法系統無論是警察無論是檢察官或是法官我知道都被這些詐騙案件簡直是癱瘓掉了部長您覺得是哪些環節出了問題呢"},{"start":106.916,"end":120.035,"text":"跟委員報告其實這個一個打架的一個國家隊那個成立就是說我們在行政院有一個打詐的一個指揮中心那法務部也有一個打"},{"start":123.42,"end":137.21,"text":"老闆部長更簡要的就是說您覺得哪些環節出問題我認為是我們這個打架國家隊的一個大家的一個努力事實上這是有成效的因為我們可以看出來一個指標就是打架一個儀表板的一個數據"},{"start":138.351,"end":147.735,"text":"那在今年二月 上個月 其實較去年同期已經顯著的下降所以這個是有成效的受理件數已經降了27.6% 財損的金額降了23%部長謝謝你 因為您提的數字 等一下我有別的數字我想這個是一個最精準的一個數字那整個新收的件數 那因為我們查貨的兆頭 查貨的增加了"},{"start":161.681,"end":172.405,"text":"增加了那個那個查獲的兆團3903件的比去年那個那個成長很多也就是說我們這個氣焰這個氣焰油壓下去壓下去那另外那個查獲的利得那個"},{"start":178.488,"end":183.693,"text":"歷得了也330億那透過偵查中的調解到56億我也是這一組新手好 謝謝部長的說明部長因為政府宣稱要抓這個騙子結果抓到的往往是我今天指的是打詐的部分往往抓到就是被找去當車手的孩子"},{"start":196.307,"end":203.633,"text":"我們來看看這個在令人心驚膽戰的數字請部長參考就是2024年警政的統計官方是最後9月到12月4個月全台灣抓了5123名的少年的嫌犯部長你知道當中有多少年輕人是被打詐欺團黑化了嗎就是說有多少是涉及詐欺你有這個數字嗎"},{"start":219.092,"end":224.774,"text":"這部分因為這是少年事件有人知道嗎?5123名少年罪犯當中有多少是跟詐欺有關的嗎?跟委員報告因為這個少年的事件是屬於司法院主管所以要問司法院的數據就會精準我來告訴部長是有超過三分之一是34.37就是有1761名的詐欺少年我要跟部長講的是更離譜的"},{"start":245.242,"end":264.984,"text":"高達72.63%都是在第一線擋子站的車手當少年把日領、面膠這種當作暑假打工的一個工具請問部長 法務部除了宣導除了告訴孩子們說你們要負的法律責任之外這些孩子一旦留下前科"},{"start":266.226,"end":272.491,"text":"他甚至可能要附帶這個做民事賠償的這個連帶的這個賠償他們的人生等於還沒有開始就毀了耶部長這個數字您不知道我來告訴你三分之一的少年嫌犯是涉及煞車其中73%是當車手我想我都跟那個委員的立場都一致非常關心少年的一個被詐團的利用那事實上我們這個法律我們這次詐毀條例有修法就是"},{"start":294.529,"end":315.804,"text":"教所幫助利用少年來共犯詐欺罪有加重刑責的二分之一那其實這個委員有關心這個跟少女事件處理法這就是司法院主管的法規那這份據我了解因為司法院對少女事件處理法這部分對少年的這部分的這些犯罪的一個問題尤其我想這個司法院有做一個會檢討的謝謝部長講的就是說加重刑罰但我今天有另外的觀點"},{"start":322.349,"end":349.637,"text":"我前面提到的是少年掉進這個詐騙集團他的陷阱困境但是從新聞我們又發現詐騙罪犯往往只抓得到車手請問警察同仁這麼辛苦每年抓了大概上萬名的車手那為什麼詐騙事件還是跟蟑螂一樣抓不完打不死部長知道基層的警員跟這個檢察官他們最感到無力的部分是什麼嗎你可不可以很簡單的講他們覺得最無力的部分是什麼"},{"start":351.821,"end":375.77,"text":"就一個觀點我想這個大家都很辛苦啦不是只有警察辛苦警察辛苦我們真的是勞苦公關我們要以很大的他們感到無力的點你有去了解嗎謝謝那我想我們班難的團內不是只有警察還有檢察官還有我們調查局的一個工人都非常的一個辛苦那我想大家一起努力也不要去因為教團的我等一下再給你繼續看數字啦"},{"start":377.871,"end":387.317,"text":"然後我想兆團經過大家的努力從那個跨機關的合作還有公司的協力我想這部分兆團這部分公司要有氣焰最高的限我們把它壓下來而且反轉的趨勢這個詐騙集團把少年當作什麼呢黑幫免洗塊的一個斷點我們抓到的永遠是冰山一角你花了這麼多的人力去打擊這個罪犯但對這些少年而來說他們都是免洗塊用過即丟"},{"start":403.967,"end":410.27,"text":"請問法務部這些躲在少年背後的成年主嫌,你現在有沒有更強硬的方法?有嗎?有或沒有?細節我可以不太記得,你有沒有去想過對這個背後的主嫌辦,例如說強硬的方法?"},{"start":424.072,"end":438.788,"text":"檢警都在抓這個少年後面的我們向他說有後面的操作的這些集團這些的組謀那我們希望透過這些少年事件處理法以及現在的一個機制我們看能不能拿到少年能夠做少年的筆錄"},{"start":439.429,"end":443.632,"text":"但是很多委員包括我們現在對少年的比喻我們現在沒辦法做少年的比喻所以這部分很困難另外我們也跟我們各地檢署也跟法院這邊也做一個協調是不是說少年可以給我們獲得這個比喻可以給我們我們追溯少年把這些可惡的這些幕後的這些集團給揪出來"},{"start":460.061,"end":464.745,"text":"你看這個你們會說一定有在努力啦你看看這個法務部的數據你看這個法務部的數據喔這個不包含高檢署都是近三年來從各地地檢署的這個受理這個詐欺罪案案件被告他申請定職時刑"},{"start":475.334,"end":479.377,"text":"的一個件數你看2023年是3109件2023年是3508件到了去年是達到4340件六都的地方這個件數連年攀升那其中這個台中的地檢署增加的最快你看這個橘黃色的這個部分所以說定因執行型的這個被當作詐團集團的招募人才的工具啦"},{"start":500.189,"end":507.394,"text":"一方面檢察官也累壞了法官也累壞了因為工作量太大部長你知道詐騙集團現在都把這個用定執行制度招攬車手小弟招攬這個犯罪成員嗎所以你看這個大攀升這是個警訊喔花這麼多時間力氣在追這個詐騙案但是在定執行的制度出了問題部長我給你看三個例子因為時間有限部長這是第一個我找了幾個定執行的案例給這個裁定給部長看"},{"start":529.068,"end":538.219,"text":"這一張張姓受刑人他這個詐欺犯了42次最後定執行刑事只有三年二個月您覺得合理嗎你暫時先不要問我我想這個是我後面還有更多我想這個是我們是不滿意所以我們要求我們有就宣導"},{"start":543.865,"end":547.069,"text":"因為訂執行人是法官訂的所以我們希望法官在訂執行人又具有他的妥當性能夠嚇阻這些造成的企業所以有跟委員報告所以如果訂執行人像委員這種我們是希望就是也要求檢察官能夠判告能夠糾正這些輕判的這些的現象"},{"start":564.548,"end":569.271,"text":"下面這個案子是高院裁定 原本台灣地安法院法官對他做11個詐欺犯罪的判定是8年6個月結果高院說 你看我把它框起來 那是他講的話刑刑恐將偏重過客 不服現代刑事政策及刑罰社會功能第一次犯罪才剛滿18歲 原審就付表各罪組應執行刑違有期徒刑8年6個月 容有過重"},{"start":588.783,"end":603.751,"text":"那他雖然認為被告抗告有利啊 就改成四年六個月 部長你看到這個定執行刑的裁定我再給你看這個數字我再看了那個檢察官 我看檢察官看到法官的這樣的一個定執行刑的裁定這個定執行刑我想也是不滿意啦 那所以因為解釋這個問題跟委員報告 我們是嚴厲修法 宿醉病法 定執行 這邊修法"},{"start":612.015,"end":618.182,"text":"所以那個集聚我們要再更合理我們今天就是討論這個重點我想這個委員點出這個問題那我們會修法來裁量裁量這邊能夠更合理台中地院的裁定更誇張囉黃姓請你看好這一張黃姓受刑人本來被宣告的刑度總共加起來是11年4個月"},{"start":633.459,"end":637.382,"text":"前面幾次都已經定過執行刑了請你看那個編號1349他本來被台中地院定為是三年六個月那編號2567的案件被台北地院定執行刑是一年兩個月最後受刑人又再申請一次把所有的案件一起定執行刑"},{"start":655.996,"end":673.029,"text":"三年六個月加一年兩個月本來是四年八個月然後這一次又少了兩個月那變成四年六個月所以這個案子是十一年四個月變成四年六個月部長你不覺得詐騙集團一直在利用司法資源利用司法對他們有利的地方"},{"start":674.529,"end":695.036,"text":"在一直犯罪一直申請這個定執行然後定完後因為還有其他案件他又把它加在一起再申請一訂再一次一定再訂刑度不斷的減少這就是我們耗費社會龐大的資源但卻得到這樣的結果難怪詐欺案件一直發生主謀抓不到這個車手抓不完部長這樣子你能接受嗎"},{"start":700.518,"end":707.141,"text":"我想這部分這部分的確是不合理不合理那我想這部分各案檢察官會勘告或訴訴那另外我覺得根本解決這部分我們要嚴厲來修法一定是先把它做一個比較合理的一個集據讓法官"},{"start":717.446,"end":722.871,"text":"在這個比較合理的話我們去做一個裁量這個要有行動 等一下我會給你一個時間我們會把委員這寶貴的一個建議我們會傳給檢討那好好的監督法院的再一個量體他看準了小孩子 設施衛生然後想賺快錢 這個是榮譽錢快錢然後又沉迷通訊軟體所以他用很輕鬆 日領 面膠這種鬼話當打工 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各位委員還有官員好我們請時部長請時部長部長好部長因為我知道您在衛福部已經服務非常非常久所以對於所有的煙害防治這些相關的法規您應該是非常非常熟悉那我們來看一下這個數據經歷煙害防治法的修法還有我們把煙捐調漲我們會看到說"},{"start":32.165,"end":46.458,"text":"男性女性整體的吸菸人數是節節下滑這個成效是卓越的不過到某一個時間點他就有一點停滯了那你會知道說女性吸菸的比例還在近年來提高的原因是什麼嗎女性吸菸率上升的問題"},{"start":55.046,"end":69.256,"text":"您說啊我們也特別注意到啦有有注意到就是說這個女性的吸菸率好像這個這兩年有一些爬升的現象我們再來細部的分析看看有什麼特別的原因"},{"start":69.958,"end":96.791,"text":"所以現在回答不出來沒關係我先跟您說到最後整體持平這個也許是一個沒有辦法改變的樣態因為吸菸的人口就是有一個固定但是我們現在想要您注意的地方是這個女性吸菸的比例升高還有兒少您的報告已經延遲了一陣子了這個你們每兩年會做一次調查所以112到114應該要有但現在115年3月了"},{"start":98.712,"end":114.888,"text":"第一我想請問你的報告什麼時候會出來跟委員說明我們內部的報告大概已經完成大概下個禮拜會對外公布那你要不要先稍微講一下數據看起來這個數字是有在往下有在往上嘛因為110下降"},{"start":116.078,"end":142.785,"text":"如果你說下降那我會覺得跟大眾你隨便到你隨便問一個校園的老師跟大眾的認知實在是太脫節了這個多月委員質詢耶裡面牽涉內建部牽涉治安包括電子菸的購買網路上現在好簡單甚至他到便利商店只要包一包他根本也不知道裡面是菸然後48種口味都可以買得到他"},{"start":143.945,"end":164.952,"text":"關係到青少年的健康嘛兒少健康 校園的煙害防治還關係到這個毒品治安甚至是行車等等因為上次煙案新聞常常都會發現所以你的意思是說110到112下降大眾已經覺得跟他們在路上看起來不太一樣現在112到114又下降了你現在要告訴我們這個嗎112到114又下降了電子煙的青少年使用又下降了"},{"start":173.566,"end":195.762,"text":"我請那個國健署省署長說明一下這個目前的調查報告是報告委員從我們的監測調查抽樣的調查的數據來看確實是在下降在國中高中電子菸加熱菸跟止菸的吸菸率當然下降不是那麼明顯就是可能從3.7下降到3.5你們是怎麼抽樣調查的我好奇問一下"},{"start":197.164,"end":210.305,"text":"我們的監測調查有一定的程序那那個抽樣的話就會隨機的去抽樣你們是抽兒少這個族群還是你們有去問老師 國中跟高中生你們沒有去問老師我們其實是針對學生抽樣"},{"start":212.813,"end":233.831,"text":"我問你小的時候你如果被發一張問卷問你有沒有偷抽菸你會寫有嗎在整個抽菸過程當中都會保護個人的隱私你要不要考慮換一個方法因為這個跟大眾的認知真的差太多了我們建議你如果你要去調查要不要把這個師長的數據跟學生的數據對起來看看謝謝委員的建議我們會納入參採"},{"start":241.837,"end":264.392,"text":"好那再來我們再回來請教部長部長因為現在呢台北市有率先提出說他們想要效法日本可以在室外推這個戶外負壓吸菸室大概有兩個優點第一個是二手菸嘛你有時候走在路上沒有明確的規範哪邊是禁菸的地方那可能就會吸到別人的二手菸甚至是三手菸"},{"start":265.393,"end":285.153,"text":"再來呢我們可以把菸蒂集中管理不會讓清潔人員東掃西掃這樣子那前幾天你是在媒體上說台北市這樣做與法可行我們是想問您是對這個政策正面看待還是覺得說菸漢防治法您很熟法規沒有很明確寫不行所以你們可以自己來做做看"},{"start":286.252,"end":301.869,"text":"沒有 我講的法規非常清楚這個是在《厭害防治法》第19條第一項第4款就是可以由各級主管機關去公告哪個地方是一個禁煙的場所然後在這個禁煙場所"},{"start":303.711,"end":332.47,"text":"指定的這個區域裡面再去指定可吸菸區啦那所以按照這樣的話就譬如說你現在是在行人這個什麼步道區你就給他宣布他不是明定我們在院內防治法18條是針對室內主要空間去做明定這個禁菸那但是部分的室內空間可以設室內吸菸室19條的話多數是針對戶外明定但是保留了第四款由各級"},{"start":333.631,"end":341.397,"text":"這個主管機關再去宣布一個禁煙場所然後再配合這個吸煙區我幫你調出來這邊是第18條你剛講的如果我們要在室內設一個吸煙室其實你規定的是蠻清楚的你寫說負壓要多少換氣要幾倍滑門要怎麼做排煙口距離多遠這個你是有一個SOP的所以我們偶爾也會在一些百貨公司看到有這樣子的室內吸煙室但是室外這個是您剛提的第19條嘛"},{"start":363.314,"end":386.194,"text":"他現在是講吸菸區所以我剛剛問你的是說室外吸菸室是不是用你的19條這是第一啊因為你講到說每一個地方他可以有明確的標示說這邊是吸菸區另外面積不得大於室外面積的二分之一嘛那其實他們有一個統一的標準我們現在要問出來的就是說"},{"start":390.217,"end":407.85,"text":"之後台北市真的開始做或者是有人覺得台北市做得不錯但是他的設置的樣貌不太一樣你是不是這邊你要說我都正面看待各縣市怎麼做都可以取決於他們的預算或是他們的規劃或者是你要同意給一個指引"},{"start":408.67,"end":427.988,"text":"因為你剛剛說你會依照法規第19條但很簡單你看18、19差多少18併的很細耶19只有講說你要放一個標示跟不可以超過二分之一就這樣耶對 當時候在立法的時候這個都是在法規上把它區分出來因為室內的空間有限"},{"start":428.689,"end":451.448,"text":"所以你要設置一個室內吸煙室的時候呢會有比較高規格的設置所以才會有授權執法去訂定這個這個室內吸煙室的設置標準但是戶外的樣態很多它空間也比較大所以它只是指定一個吸煙區但是這個吸煙區必須要有管理分別在這個這個煙害防治法的第22條跟23條"},{"start":453.109,"end":474.58,"text":"他都有規範你的管理設備上你怎麼維護那避免呢這個保護我們受保護的像是孕婦啦還兒童呢青少年的不要進入到CNC明顯標準所以你的意思是說我只是要問一個結論您的意思是說現行的法規已經足夠了你未來不會再另外出一個指引"},{"start":475.16,"end":500.797,"text":"假使各縣市實施的室外吸菸區或是室外吸菸室它看起來的規格不同 你不會再另外設執營了我們會看未來各縣市執行的情形如何譬如說它現在我那天提的很簡單的概念就是你這個吸菸區戶外這個吸菸區你可以比照這個去設置這個室內吸菸室的設置標準去設置當然沒有問題"},{"start":502.578,"end":522.728,"text":"你是規定 還是說你可以可以是大家都要叫室內這樣做那麼你現在來講呢這個戶外的這個指定的吸菸區與法是可行就是說你必須先指定一個區域是禁菸然後再去指定那個吸菸區吸菸區不能夠應該是這樣講啦其實我們只是很簡單的想要"},{"start":525.949,"end":536.92,"text":"請教你如果未來各縣市不同大家已經花了預算去做了嘛你會不會跑出來說不行這樣子不行你可能要依照我們第18條的規定市內的那些規定來做我們現在其實就是問你一個很簡單的問題你會出指引還是不會"},{"start":543.226,"end":566.254,"text":"目前這個法律上沒有授權啊但是如果說各縣市政府有這個需要我們可以召集大家來共事一下就是專家跟各縣市大家來共事一下說大家都要朝這個方向想要這樣做的話有一個您說的指引也好或者是一個那現在有一個縣市想要這樣子做了你要找嗎"},{"start":567.561,"end":588.235,"text":"如果是台北市已經有一些做法他可以提供給我們我們來幫他協助看一下不是啦現在就是要問你說你會不會主動去找他們說你要怎麼做我跟你商量一下那看你做出來不要做出來中央要說不行要依照第18條其實我們就是問你這麼簡單的問題我們希望齁這個"},{"start":592.958,"end":607.667,"text":"這個禁煙這個煙害防治都是我們共通的目標啦所以如果是縣市政府有這個需要的時候都可以請我們我們會給他協助另外我們這個國建署也會找這個專家大家來討論一下"},{"start":609.728,"end":633.089,"text":"所以你最近有這個規劃會請這個台北市想要做的這個資料先送來那我們也可以幫他列為我們在討論的一個這個材料所以在這邊請教您一個進度就您多久以內會完成這個會議您預計這個月底之前就會召開這個月底 對下一個署長您可以回座"},{"start":634.992,"end":645.795,"text":"下一個是最近很多護理師在網路上討論的這個影片他們看著看著就哭了我們現在沒有聲音在辛苦的時候你要想到有一個人就算已經當到總統了還是很羨慕你們的工作"},{"start":657.726,"end":681.387,"text":"這個是賴清德總統他1月24號出席健康台灣深耕論壇的時候講出來的話但當然後來根據審計部他有去調查他說實際上月投保薪資是3.8萬但在賴總統的眼中他覺得5萬很高他很羨慕他們可是護理師說這是他們不眠不休犧牲了很多生活品質家庭生活才換來的"},{"start":683.529,"end":707.964,"text":"這邊簡單的數據不過相信部長你也知道嚴重性近期內有個調查針對五千多名的護理人員他發現未來一年內離職大概有45%那年資在五年以下離職意向最高他們高達52%那現在這個新的世代的他不一定是因為薪水他可能還要兼顧工作環境有不友善還有他的工時高壓醫療糾紛等等"},{"start":711.026,"end":724.915,"text":"這邊只是很簡短想要問石部長兩個問題齁您最近接受媒體的採訪你有提出好幾個解方包括調高住院的護理費啊或者是集中症護理費要再提升但是我針對其中兩個"},{"start":726.816,"end":733.201,"text":"覺得非常的疑惑也是網路上很多人在討論的一個叫做住院整合照護計畫擴大你一口氣從五千要加到三萬三萬請問你現在的規劃人第一個人哪裡找第二你床哪裡來你的空間在哪裡你盤點過了嗎你可以告訴我們你初步盤點的狀況嗎好我想要先替賴總統澄清那天的談話呢我在現場"},{"start":755.498,"end":777.067,"text":"他主要是針對醫師的發言他不是說阿護理員員的薪水他很羨慕不是這樣他提的意思是說這個因為他一開始的志向是要從醫那但是因為走入了政治之後呢那麼就放棄了從醫這一條路所以他是針對底下的這些醫師大家的同僚那麼"},{"start":779.988,"end":795.013,"text":"這個抒發 說他很羨慕大家能夠繼續的同一的這個職職沒有 大家都歡迎他回來做臨床工作所以他不需要羨慕 他完全不需要羨慕你先回答這個住院整合照護計畫 你一口氣從五千喊到三萬你到底盤點過嗎 你這個三萬是什麼根據來的嗎"},{"start":803.212,"end":830.438,"text":"我想這個住院整合照護計畫是對於這個減輕護理人員的負荷是很有幫忙那麼因為現在的高齡化的關係住院的很多都是老人家那麼他需要一些生活的服務照護那麼如果沒有這些服務的話呢那通常這些工作就會轉嫁到護理人員的身上所以在過去呢我們已經推動了兩年效果很不錯"},{"start":831.078,"end":860.328,"text":"那只不過又與預算的關係只能夠推動到5000床那現在的5000床以去年我們編的5.6億來講已經用超過了所以我們才會在去年的這個預算裡編列的時候希望今年能夠擴大因為有很多醫院提出需求我們是根據提出的需求但是我們的預算只有那麼多才核定5000床事實上需求已經超過這是醫院提出來的所以我們是根據醫院所提出來"},{"start":861.168,"end":887.225,"text":"希望開辦的那麼去規劃這樣加一加有三萬就對了但是你的造福源現在還有一個很大缺口根據不同的統計第一我先更新一下你一三年開始你是希望可以減少護理人員的流失可是護理師提供給我們的數據還是在流失這第一所以我不知道這個效果很好可能是局部有幫到忙還是怎麼樣再來呢當然是因為他的規模不夠嘛"},{"start":888.045,"end":898.954,"text":"因為只有五千五千床而已規模不大我們現在一共的床數急性病床就七萬床教服員這個兩萬到六萬的缺口你如果沒有解決請問你這個三萬床要怎麼開出來我想因為我們這個三萬床剛剛提到這個是醫院提出說他可以"},{"start":905.519,"end":921.044,"text":"他可以開辦的床數只是我們的預算不足以給他所以我們才會編列預算希望說醫院既然他願意來開辦那我們就來提供預算所以只是這樣的一個沒關係我們會每年再看一下您這個護理師的數據但是因為這個預算沒有審查"},{"start":922.605,"end":941.479,"text":"所以沒有辦法執行我跟你說我們先看你還有一個叫做放寬護理師實習年限很多護理師在網路上討論說你要怎麼放寬護理師實習年限這件事情你有沒有初步的一個想法你是要怎麼放寬從本來是怎麼樣放寬到如何"},{"start":945.151,"end":968.077,"text":"就是我們過去這個護理系畢業之後那麼他要考照所以我們給他一年多的時間那你要改成什麼樣在這個之前就是他如果願意繼續實習那他就可以繼續留下來然後在這個多久以內完成你說放寬嘛多久以內我們當然希望他考上嘛所以就是繼續這個時間的話我們要跟護理界討論"},{"start":971.038,"end":987.651,"text":"所以你講出放寬護理師實習年限你還沒跟護理師討論喔我是說要放寬到多久還沒有定案但是這個方向上已經確定你什麼時候跟護理師團體開過會我一直都在開過會我知道我知道我是說什麼時候討論過放寬護理師實習年限上次就已經討論過了討論過了就朝這個方向"},{"start":993.422,"end":1002.668,"text":"但是你們總該有一個討論是幾到幾吧連線上還沒有確認但是你在會議上提的意見是多久我沒有提哪多久啊我只是說要放寬那對方提的呢因為現在跟護理師聽到的聲音好像不太一樣"},{"start":1015.356,"end":1032.44,"text":"那哪裡不一樣我是說他們是反對有一些護理師團體他們覺得沒有被徵詢到意見另外他們也沒有很贊成放寬因為你應該是要提高留任的比例開源也很重要可是現在很多人是有護理師執照可是不願意執業嘛"},{"start":1034.262,"end":1046.736,"text":"我想這個職業的考量因素很多啦那我們只是讓願意留在這個護理職場的包含這些實習生也是啊也給他機會啊我們可以跟你要一下這個會議記錄嗎你上次跟護理師團體討論然後裡面有包括放寬護理師實習年限的這個照務師也有在跟"},{"start":1054.725,"end":1057.886,"text":"就很多在討論所以他們的意見是什麼 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謝謝主席 請管會的彭主委 請彭主委委員早安 彭主委早 彭主委我請教 因為打造EBI"},{"start":23.224,"end":34.296,"text":"儀表板資料顯示115年1到2月假投資詐騙是最多的財損原因那警方受理差不多3090件財損合計54億"},{"start":39.471,"end":51.222,"text":"民怨真的四起北京走訪基層經常也在探討民眾建議說台灣要比照新加坡增加變形、詐騙犯"},{"start":53.509,"end":81.185,"text":"提供銀行帳戶者將被強制以邊形尤其那個TVBS的民調高達七成的民眾贊成引進邊形來處這些詐騙犯那本席請問我們在場的很多董事長跟總經理們你們要是反對邊形的詐騙犯的請舉手好不好反對的"},{"start":82.938,"end":98.968,"text":"這個是也是民調之一你看幾乎大家都沒有反對因為講實在話為什麼要做這樣民調我包括很多那個場面裡面有分局分局長他都贊成說應該要加變形"},{"start":101.755,"end":128.82,"text":"我問過N場了啦其實我們是要解決問題啊那媒體報導詐欺集團的人頭賬戶啊遭警示凍結來不及領走的這些賬款還有幾十億啦那我請問彭主委這些被凍結的詐騙的賬款金額確確有多少你了不了解這我沒有確切的數據沒有去做統計是不是對"},{"start":130.641,"end":138.389,"text":"應該是有這個數據啦因為這個可能不是我們這邊或是我可以請銀行局局長可以來跟銀行局長來你了不了解"},{"start":140.28,"end":156.036,"text":"目前我們沒有這樣做一個統計但是在法治上我們有被害人款項返還我了解 因為那個 滕主委依法 請方可以將查扣人頭的帳戶詐騙的帳款還給被害的民眾但經由查對 曠日會時"},{"start":163.263,"end":186.828,"text":"那查緝辦案處理人力有限導致這些被害人的屍款看得到拿不回那我請問彭主委未來儘管會用哪些方法可以協助這些警方來加快金流茶隊的程序儘早讓這些受詐的這些被害人拿回自己的錢你有沒有什麼想法 那個彭主委"},{"start":188.008,"end":201.615,"text":"謝謝委員的指正剛才委員提到對於詐騙我們也是大家都一樣深惡痛絕但是對於受害人而言最重要的除了懲治詐騙犯以外很重要就是能夠減少損失返還這些所謂被騙的金額"},{"start":206.937,"end":222.014,"text":"不過這個狀況比較複雜那我們在現行的法規裡面如果說有很明確的知道這個帳戶的來源確實這樣的話確實有一個機制直接可以由司法機關就可以通知然後就把它返還但是我們看到一個實務的狀況就是當"},{"start":223.556,"end":247.263,"text":"受害人驚覺到這個結果的時候已經經過層層轉了以後那雖然知道這張款但是最後要明確知道它的詳細的內容是花點時間我們最近也有看到有個銀行非常主動的個案那我們已經請銀行局深入去理解假設這是一個未來大家可以通用的方式來做的話我們會協調司法單位看有沒有怎麼樣的辦法"},{"start":248.203,"end":275.075,"text":"金融機構這邊一定是全力來協助金流的比對但是最後呢怎麼樣返還我們會利用這個各種的成功的個案我們想盡辦法來協助民眾返還他受騙的金額好我希望說彭主委一定啊這個要去做一套機制那多費一點時間我認為這個因為他受詐以後真的那種心境我們可以理解"},{"start":276.115,"end":290.493,"text":"那今天要是說抓到詐騙犯而且已經掌握到他的整個金流那該緩緩的你們要有一套機制啊積極的來做處理彭主委儘管會要求銀行做防詐"},{"start":291.714,"end":305.469,"text":"結果倒高一尺 磨高一丈現在詐騙集團大量的利用虛擬貨幣把錢洗到海外今晚為現在虛擬資產的主管機關那我請問主委你們有沒有從源頭斬斷洗錢金流的鐵碗"},{"start":312.977,"end":326.489,"text":"其實我們在我們大概我們有想到的方法我們大概都做比如說我們現在針對我們一般的金融機構跟我們虛擬資產服務業者之間的一些的金流管控我們已經有這個機制"},{"start":327.97,"end":348.249,"text":"再來我們現在已經逐步納管我們的虛擬資產服務業者那實際上他們也針對這些這個所謂的詐騙房子還有一些洗錢部分也納入政府我們也跟速發部有建立這樣的合作機制來做這個管理我想這個透過整個制度的到位應該會逐步的會改善"},{"start":348.709,"end":348.809,"text":"是 這個是"},{"start":371.849,"end":397.05,"text":"打詐防詐是通力的行為我知道基層員警跟檢察官都非常辛苦其實銀行端也非常的辛苦銀行當然我們這幾年主詐就超過了應該260億吧就是說協助這個民眾這個主卻我想大部分的臨櫃關懷我想大家都知道其實我們大家都很努力其實我們絕對不會把所有的所謂的把這個責任推給某一個部分其實大家都很努力像我們在臨櫃關懷的時候除了我們"},{"start":398.351,"end":425.122,"text":"基層的行員其實我們基層的員警也盡了非常大的力量來做這件事情那我想我們會來精進我們的做法好希望更積極一些啦那個主委因為媒體報導許多授權公司啊2026年要積極來推展房貸的業務然而卻有這些公股基層的銀行人員跟本席來抱怨啦反應高層要求銀行行員幫"},{"start":427.903,"end":443.909,"text":"這個保險公司來拉保險雖然銀行大賺手續會的收入卻讓第一線理財的這些專員壓力大增長久下來恐怕會讓保險公司不像保險公司而且銀行不像銀行"},{"start":445.59,"end":466.605,"text":"確實現在是存在的喔根據金管會資料統計112年到113年八大公股、行股遭到客戶申訴銀行通路有不當的這些招攬保險的行為共發生了117件那本席是希望說金管會在落實督導"},{"start":468.006,"end":496.133,"text":"讓銀行業及保險業各自他們來回歸他專業的專注的本業那除了賺錢獲利更要承擔更多這個企業社會的一個責任以避免這些銀行裡專人員以不當的話術誘使民眾來購買不熟悉的這些金融保險商品以免未來發生一些更多的投資糾紛那個主委你有什麼看法"},{"start":497.393,"end":520.298,"text":"實際上我們經貿市場的管理有兩大塊一個就是市場行為的管理我想剛才委員所指正的就是市場行為的管理這部分我們對銀行保險業務我們從2001年經貿公司設立以來2005年做大幅的開放實際上這部分我們已經針對陸陸續續對銀行在銷售保險商品應該做的一些事項做過非常非常多的規範我想剛才提到的這些"},{"start":520.638,"end":536.733,"text":"所有爭議案件我們也都會進到評議中心去評議如果做成決議的話大部分人也都會遵守我想這部分我們會來動態調整我們會非常的關注像這種不當銷售行為一直都是市場管理上非常重要的那確實現在是存在現在變成保險不像保險那銀行不像銀行"},{"start":539.475,"end":557.833,"text":"結果銀行那些有專都在招保險他有通路跨售的這樣一個情況這也是金融整合的一個過程我想也不是台灣啦因為客戶有他一站式消費的需求所以銀行有他的優勢但是呢常常不能因為銀行的一些的所謂資訊上的優勢或是他一些"},{"start":559.554,"end":577.395,"text":"做一些其實過去我們已經有很多很多的規範來規範我想銀行是一個高度遵守這個法規的一個行業啦我想我們只要有規定下去他們都會遵守這我會請保險局跟銀行局密切的關注這些一些申訴的個案來修改我們的相關的辦法"},{"start":578.396,"end":605.815,"text":"主委最近台股屢創新高啦全民都在瘋狂討論股票今天本席在財委會來替全國股民問主委一個最直接的問題台股現在到底你認為有沒有過熱其實我在很多的這個在這個地方我講過很多事情其實我們不會去預測我們台股的一些的內容因為我們是一個市場的監理者嘛所以"},{"start":607.831,"end":630.869,"text":"這個沒有辦法透過我這邊的觀察因為現在有很多因素而且我們表面上看股市是史無前例的這些大牛市但是本席在地方上聽到卻是有許多股民的哀嚎因為現在的台股出現了跟我們總體經濟一樣的K型化的趨勢大盤指數往上衝"},{"start":631.75,"end":648.817,"text":"都是靠極檔的AI科技股在衝而傳統產業一般小型這些股小型股根本就是沒有漲這是賺了指數賠了差價那散戶根本沒有享受到股市創新高的這些紅利主委你怎麼看呢"},{"start":649.477,"end":674.987,"text":"我想資本市場本來就是要謹慎投資注意風險我想一直都是這樣跟指數的高低其實沒有太大的差別這個都是一直都要關注那你說產業結構跟資本市場發展的我們也有請教育所密切的注意這些這些比如說它的股價跟它的經營績效之間的一些關聯程度來看看是不是我們的資本市場效率性有什麼做法可以來提升"},{"start":676.188,"end":686.535,"text":"我是希望說一定要提醒大家因為現在我們都是跟著美國股市在走但是現在局勢真的是很亂要非常的小心謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167546","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167546","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053877d2ee015f776d718cbbd4f69c426c0f13775304d9d746a07e920e284d7c1245ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:10:36 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委員長部長早 在長照3.0要上路的元年我有很多問題要來請教部長我最近趁著空檔時間 從2月1號到現在我大概走訪不同縣市的長照機構那非都非地區需要長照機構而設立長照機構最大的問題不外乎就是評鑑"},{"start":35.103,"end":48.522,"text":"所以我想先來請教部長有關評鑑的問題台灣已經邁入我們的超高齡社會長照的制度也是進入到今年正式進入到長照3.0目前全台最"},{"start":49.147,"end":69.279,"text":"需要長照服務的人口已經超過了100萬人因此長照服務的品質跟我們的監督機制非常的重要可是我們自己看到就是說最近就有報導指出現行的長照機構評鑑制度出現了文件導向的一個現象甚至延伸出協助機構來撰寫評鑑資料的一個評鑑顧問"},{"start":74.229,"end":98.465,"text":"不曉得你自己有沒有看這樣子的一篇蠻冗長報的那收費呢從10到50萬不等所以部長你知道這件事情嗎這樣子的一個評鑑制度到底是要在提升照顧品質還是在檢查文件品質這事實上是由來一直以來的問題我想不是只有長照過去托嬰中心幼兒園也都是這樣就是有寫手來幫忙幫你"},{"start":100.259,"end":120.089,"text":"整套的東西都整理好可是到底真實的事實上是機構的品質嗎可是如果評鑑事實上是如果做文件的話一定會拿到優好如果一旦發生問題的時候很常政府就會被批評說他都是優啊那他為什麼會這樣為什麼發生不幸的事件呢好所以不知道你知道這樣的狀況嗎"},{"start":121.549,"end":141.68,"text":"我想跟委員說明,那麼為了提升這些照護的品質,我們經常都是採用兩個手段,一個就是督導考核,那一個就是用這個評鑑的方式。那當然評鑑是比較軟性啦,那但是呢,它的標準上呢,就可以可能會朝向這個一直在優化。"},{"start":143.481,"end":164.393,"text":"確實在過去從醫院評鑑可能做了比較久大家也可以看得到這個後來也是出現有這個文件paperwork太多反而造成臨床上的壓力所以我想這個長照的評鑑我們也一樣會跟目前在做醫院評鑑改革的精神是一樣的盡量去降低"},{"start":165.814,"end":184.202,"text":"這個文件這個paperwork盡量能夠降低但是也導入一些智慧化因為我們也不想只是因為一日的評鑑當天的評鑑那很多就是一日表現很好但是平常不好所以還是要建立過去用文件就是說可能當天"},{"start":184.842,"end":199.18,"text":"一天的評鑑怕失準所以才會準備一堆長期的文件那如果我們能夠建立起自廠的監測機制那麼我想這個文件的要求就可以下降當然在"},{"start":199.7,"end":212.151,"text":"我們的長照機構跟醫院不同的是說它的小規模的很多所以它本身的資訊能力也比較有落差所以我們會盡量來協助改善"},{"start":214.633,"end":228.448,"text":"所以我最擔心的就是說第一線公眾員反映說有些機構就是文書人員很多幾乎都在做文書可是照顧人力很少照顧員必須花很大量的時間將近大概要花35%時間來處理重複的一些記錄"},{"start":230.63,"end":248.177,"text":"反而壓縮了照顧長者的時間更可能找所謂的我們的評鑑顧問來代寫我覺得先個案紀錄找評鑑顧問來代寫實在是坦白講有點離譜就是說我從A機構評鑑的時候看到的跟B機構寫的個案紀錄完全一模一樣這真的是讓我們覺得說那這樣子的"},{"start":249.878,"end":273.669,"text":"品質何在呢所以想問部長說目前評鑑指標當中我們的文書記錄跟實際照顧品質的比重各自是多少為什麼因為有時候評鑑幾乎委員都在看黨本資料很少去看到現場現場也有些樣板的給你看甚至記錄都有樣板的給你看所以政府是否評估過這種過度化的反而是讓增加第一線的一些負擔"},{"start":275.082,"end":276.869,"text":"詳細的評鑑的過程我是不是請長照司的副市長來補充"},{"start":282.034,"end":310.12,"text":"謝謝 謝謝委員這邊的垂詢關心那我們其實非常看這種評鑑的實質到底評到了什麼所以你們只有60項可是那指標真的都是在文書因為有分專業組跟經營管理組那委員剛剛說只看文件不看現場那個是經營管理組因為他確實要看他整個機構的管理的部分去抽那些相關人員排班的一些狀況那另外三個全部是看現場市長你知道這些也是可以做出來的嗎"},{"start":311.26,"end":339.118,"text":"看現場的部分其實是當場抽個案然後當場這個要求這個照顧的人那一個行為動作讓他當場做出來所以其實這樣子其實是可以看到所有的現場的照顧的人力有沒有能力去處理這些相關的事實上我想這個評鑑應該講不是只有長照連我覺得很多的機構評鑑都落入到這問題所以我只是希望你們"},{"start":340.319,"end":358.608,"text":"不管照顧小的照顧老的真的機構在照代為照顧的時候真的要去把關那另外衛福部也透過我們的住宿型機構的照顧品質獎勵計畫來鼓勵提機構提升品質這很好啊這報導也指出說有些機構在申請補助時只有針對"},{"start":359.868,"end":380.735,"text":"少數的樣板個案來展示他的照顧成果所以要問的是衛福部如何確保這些補助真正能夠反映到整體的照顧品質是不是有事後的追蹤跟我們的隨機抽查像剛剛部長也講不能一天好其他天事實上都沒辦法事實上是滿足"},{"start":381.455,"end":392.404,"text":"照顧品質所以我不知道說你們事後有沒有做一些追蹤或者是抽查因為報導裡面反映的是說當天大家都表現得很好可是後邊呢並不是這樣子做"},{"start":395.215,"end":424.277,"text":"就像我剛剛提到的我們大概有三個機制嘛一個就是這個年度的督導考核嘛那一個就是評鑑這個是定期的那還有一種就是不定期的抽查制度啦那我想剛剛委員所提到的這個為了避免只是在當天的樣板個案那可能要去強化這種外部專家的這個審視的能力第二個就是抽查啦"},{"start":425.037,"end":453.375,"text":"所以部長我還是認為未來真的長照3.0應該從文件治理走向品質治理減少文書型的一個指標強化實地訪查來讓我們的住民跟家屬有回饋機制讓長照真的是去能夠提升品質再要問的是就是說我們的長照3.0到底誰在使用為什麼這樣講因為我常常是說政策制定一定要回到真正的使用者的一個經驗首先"},{"start":453.975,"end":469.104,"text":"依據衛福部資料顯示大概112年的長照服務使用者當中失能的人照顧的大概將近八成可是50到64歲的身心障礙大概兩成是最低的所以現在超過七成的長照服務使用者都是"},{"start":470.584,"end":486.213,"text":"輕中度的失能者這就代表我們現在的長照服務的主要對象其實都是輕中度失能者問題就在這裡真正照顧壓力最大的其實是重度的失能家庭而這些家庭往往不是靠長照制度"},{"start":486.673,"end":511.422,"text":"而是靠家人自己在乘或者是聘僱外籍看護工來做照顧所以看統計目前台灣就是全台大約有21.4萬名的一個失能者的一個聘僱外籍家庭的看護移工而其中大約有4成同時使用長照服務可是更值得注意這4成當中因為去年開始外聘我們的"},{"start":512.922,"end":528.002,"text":"看護移工的時候還是可以用你的長照服務可是值得注意這四層裡面只有三分之一其實只有用一項服務不然這代表什麼這是不是代表我們的長照制度的一個設計可能沒有真正貼近重度家庭的需求"},{"start":528.683,"end":543.703,"text":"政府現在公布的長照服務涵蓋率其實是不是高就是你高估了制度真正要滿足需求的程度為什麼現在滿意度很高可是滿意度是不是有用的人可是有很多人事實上是沒有在使用你的需求的評估"},{"start":544.904,"end":566.1,"text":"的狀況是什麼否則的話你現在的滿意度事實上是有用的人嘛所以好像沒辦法真正的事實上知道說到底那個需求到底是什麼那這會造成什麼問題當長照服務滿意度越來越高時這些需要長照資源的重度家庭可能因為沒有被知道沒有在使用你的資源而且"},{"start":566.7,"end":585.621,"text":"部長當長照服務滿預度越高不是應該會減少照顧者的照顧壓力嗎那為什麼我們還是依然發生了照顧殺人的悲劇依然持續在發生所以要問是如何提升從那個重度失能者使用長照的比例讓政府接住照顧者"},{"start":586.541,"end":602.794,"text":"也跟委員說明一下 按照我們的統計在幾支戶的使用比例裡面大概重度的是佔20%然後中度的40%那當然還有40%是屬於輕度的大概是這樣的分佈那麼比較tricky的就是這個重度的"},{"start":603.674,"end":625.389,"text":"有一部分其實是到這個住宿式機構去的這個大概差不多12萬人那還有一些是在家裡的所以我們在居家的部分怎麼去強化這個支持就是剛剛回應到最後這個長照悲劇的部分其實就是那個重度在居家的部分怎麼去強化這個support包含喘息的還有這個社區裡面的照顧者的資源"},{"start":632.413,"end":660.569,"text":"服務這些我們在長照3.0裡面會特別希望部長我這以下有三個建議請你大概一個月內給我這個報告也就是政府應該建立我們重度施能優先支持的一個服務設計然後降低申請門檻像可不可以增加我們的夜間或者是喘息服務而且要簡化我們的申請流程第二個就是政府應該思考整合移工跟長照制度不要讓家庭自己有外聘"},{"start":661.149,"end":687.21,"text":"移工的時候自己呢獨自要去照顧的時候以為反正他有移工可是實際上基本上他的負擔還是大的可能去思考到這個兩者是不是可以怎麼協作那政府也需要建立真正反應需求的政策指標所以你現在用的長照的服務的涵蓋率來說明你的政策成果可是真正要被服務的人可能重度的事實上是沒被你納入"},{"start":688.257,"end":711.669,"text":"好 以上 跟委員再補充其實我們長照3.0已經把那個有移工 聘這個我剛也講過他們用的比例事實上非常的低你還是要去瞭解為什麼用的比例這麼低再來瞭解一下使用率低的所以部長是不是可以一個月月提供這些評估報告這三項可以啦 好 謝謝部長謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝林玉琴委員"}]}},{"id":"167550","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167550","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053b7dba86551ae231a52e56fd78df8e650f13775304d9d746aaa0123905ad953be5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"09:23:16 - 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還是我們台灣的政治因素我覺得這個也是背後主委我們包括我們財政部 金管會 經濟部都要仔細思考的我知道委員關心這件事情但是我覺得大家就單看這個表面的時候沒有去深究每個個案的背後那會產生一個誤解認為台灣的經營狀況惡化其實就以這個個案而言根本不是這個樣子"},{"start":317.878,"end":340.703,"text":"我想主要是國際的公司在全球佈局的時候有他自己的策略如果各位有關注一下很多國際的公司在亞洲做這個調整不是在台灣我想這個是他們在只是我們看這個個案會有這個想法其實就以我們主委我剛剛不是只有討論這個個案因為近三年撤離台灣的還有包括瑞士信貸銀行等等沒關係主委我只是提醒你這件事情我覺得身為政務官"},{"start":341.423,"end":368.024,"text":"我們要去思考台灣的投資環境是不是發生了什麼樣的變化因為我們一直講說我們想辦法追上新加坡這也是你提了好幾次我也期望我們是這樣我也期待我們在這邊監督質詢我們的期待就是如此所以主委背後的政治因素投資環境到底發生了什麼事情這是我要提醒主委我們要思考的地方當然每一個投資他沒有賺錢他當然就走因為這是自由市場嘛"},{"start":368.965,"end":388.821,"text":"我們是資本自由市場他們要在哪裡走但是我們要思考他為什麼賺不到錢那為什麼沒有足夠的過去他可以重回台灣25年那前10年他一定有看到願景那為什麼現在沒有所以這個東京變化到底發生了什麼事情我覺得要去做分析"},{"start":389.582,"end":408.753,"text":"我是說剛好有這個機會可以跟您說明我覺得說大家看這個個案我們當然很關注說是不是台灣投資情況惡化我答案可以說不是非常的明確只是說他二十幾年比如說這個集團在台灣過去投資有四家公司非常多有他自己的經營模式後來他自己做一個改變其實我覺得這個我們都尊重但是你要確保我們台灣的客戶跟員工的權益"},{"start":412.675,"end":439.576,"text":"這個是最基本這個我相信你會做得到這個是勢必這是最基本的要求我只是今天透過這個質詢我今天有三個題目我只是點醒就是說背後的政治因素環境因素我們想辦法要國際的投資客都進來台灣投資是不是發生了什麼變化這是我要提醒的地方因為這個不是只有你因為這個橫跨經濟部各方面但是我覺得身為執政黨這個部分就要去注意這是我第一個問題第二個問題喔"},{"start":441.517,"end":458.925,"text":"4月1號剛上路的那個旅遊不變心智的保險這剛上路沒多久但是我覺得心智上當背後它有它一定的意義跟你們做過思考但我覺得還有幾點我要提醒就是沒有思考到"},{"start":460.086,"end":475.661,"text":"我們現在無論是訂了幾副或累積幾副的部分我們都有一個上限譬如說累積幾副的部分就是說我們現在就要求說只能最多買兩張保單然後累積幾副的部分就是延誤四小時可以賠六千塊滿八小時賠一萬兩千塊那最高理賠只有兩萬四千塊"},{"start":482.407,"end":500.399,"text":"這跟過去不同的是過去可以各單項就是時之時復我保班機延誤險我保如果班機延誤的話後面旅館什麼跟著陪我就可以指定哪幾項但是後來我們新制做這樣的調整是因為我覺得旅遊過程當中有很多"},{"start":501.32,"end":529.998,"text":"沒有去思考到的就是一個班機延誤他可能衍生很多不同的費用包括膳食費住宿費還有包括現在機票改票費非常的貴因為現在機票因為油價的關係整個都上漲那但是理賠金額最多只有兩萬四是不是合理因為有經濟艙有豪金艙有商務艙我如果願意保比較高的保費"},{"start":530.999,"end":557.497,"text":"那但是我的禮賠可以多一點因為後面可能一個班機延誤我可能後面轉成整個每一家飯店還有交通他都不會他都不會賠嘛所以相對的有一些旅客我想保高一點因為我這一趟旅程可能就非常貴光是機票可能就十七十八萬包括飯店二三十萬我願意負擔比較高的保費但你現在你最高禮牌就只有兩萬四"},{"start":559.258,"end":575.899,"text":"所以我要提醒的是因為我今天時間不夠所以我覺得現在沒有去做這樣子就是說整套的思考我們就只有要求說我們現在最高理賠就兩萬四然後而且要從不同兩家去買保單"},{"start":577.113,"end":604.992,"text":"我覺得這個並不是辨明的措施就補充兩句話第一個就是說這是針對費用保險定額給付不論你實際損失是多少的方法我們還有十之十複就是說你真的有其他的保單可以來做選擇我只是說這個東西市場上已經提出非常多的質疑說有人因為這樣而去等於說違反了保險最基本的損害填補這是個費用保險"},{"start":606.333,"end":623.32,"text":"我知道 但是你們這樣損害填補原則 損害填補原則 損害填補原則去做思考但是 你看兩萬四 但是如果是一個商務旅遊如果你有這個需求 你可以購買其他可以填補你損失的一些險種"},{"start":624.491,"end":643.278,"text":"但是我覺得你們在這個心智當中沒有去做更完整的思考包括我剛才講那個我覺得應該去思考變成說要跟兩家來買然後另外時知時負我還要再買我變成要跟三家買所以我覺得這個旅遊上限是不是合理沒有去思考到遠距或其實在我們評估的時候這些都有評估過啦就是因為"},{"start":646.579,"end":662.572,"text":"很多那個極端或是特殊的個案那跟整個社會成本來做相比的時候保安局跟我建議的時候我有跟委員一樣相同的問題後來他把整個數字告訴我以後我覺得說先暫時應該朝這個方向來走我覺得因為4月1號才剛要上路齁我覺得有機會你們多辦幾場公聽會聽聽各界的聲音還有比如說有一些商務客他的費用就是很高"},{"start":673.382,"end":680.937,"text":"我們就是朝向更好的制度我們一定都可以來我覺得有一段時間上路之後也應該有一段調整是好不好謝謝主委謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167551","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167551","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053b01926c59526e330d268b4a161496bd9f13775304d9d746a21596a229c91d56b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:27:10 - 09:38:07","影片長度":"00:10:57","會議時間":"2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、 邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、 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谢谢周二位我们是不是请何安的我们的陈明珍主委还有我们的经济部的赖次长还有我们台电的许永辉副总谢谢好 请三个机关代表谢谢"},{"start":34.175,"end":62.072,"text":"好谢谢三位那我想受到美伊战争的一些影响大家都非常担心有关于天然气供给的一个压力昨天我在总质询的时候呢经济部长特别保证说在三月四月在调度上是没有问题五月应该也还是OK但是呢因为这个成本会提高但是呢可能这个大概提高是两成这是经济部长所提到的那我想请问次长如果成本提高两成这些会不会反映在我们的电价上面"},{"start":65.157,"end":88.487,"text":"首先跟委員說明我們對於天然氣的調度沒有問題我們現在時間有限我就要問陳主委但是你先告訴我會不會影響到我們電價第一個電價審議我們尊重電價審議委員會的專業的審議事實上行政院也多方的在穩定物價的部分去做努力相關的工作會議所以現在目前還不確定是在電價上面會不會"},{"start":89.207,"end":118.408,"text":"像目前为止还没有办法确定是所以现在目前为止还没有办法确定这个4月5月电价会不会因此做调整这个依照这个月底的电价审议所以说3月底才会知道因为中油目前来说他们过去盈余大概今年盈余转亏转亏为盈大概有80亿但是因为中东战争的方法他们搞不好要因为要自主吸收搞不好连亏这个7年了那台电目前为止我们还是不晓得就是电价有没有因此受到影响好"},{"start":119.108,"end":141.079,"text":"所以3月底我们等审议小组之后才知道电价可不可以受到波动这是你的回应没错吧好来我们接下来问一下我们的陈主委因为目前为止这个河山在运转的计划3月底就会送到这个河安会那工部长就特别提到这个安全检查大概需要一年半到两年那因为我们河山才刚刚停机时间不久"},{"start":141.559,"end":170.942,"text":"而且停机之前都会造一些规定来完成一些税收跟安全检查你是专业你认为需要到一年半到两年吗因为有些专家认为以这样的部分来看的话其实时间可以再缩短一年这就看台电提出的报告是不是很完整很齐全那你自己核安的专业你认为核三是不是要要到这么久有没有可能在2027或者是更早的时间甚至在2026年底因为它才刚停机不久啊"},{"start":172.118,"end":180.342,"text":"这个需要时间来检查一般来说是需要很严格的检查如果台电的准备工作做得很好的话当然时间可以缩短台电准备工作做得怎么样"},{"start":198.55,"end":224.142,"text":"现在还没看到报告三月底来好那我们来看一下一般来说这个台电跟西屋的燃料采购的合约大概在几年内就会失效那一般来说在合约有效前下单的话燃料棒大概在18个月就有办法供应如果你失效之后再来order的话你可能需要等三年那我想请问台电目前你跟西屋的合约还剩下几年"},{"start":226.311,"end":242.666,"text":"目前跟西屋的合約目前都是還是有效的所以有沒有可能在他合約之內就先行來做這樣子的下單目前來講因為我們有優先的選擇全合三場還有兩批所以這一部分其實隨時我如果下單那隨時就是八個月的"},{"start":243.566,"end":261.841,"text":"就有办法嘛所以有机会嘛对不对那核二相对就比较复杂一点因为核二它停机已经一段段时间所以它安全检查需要耗费一些的时间那有没有可能核二也是比照核三的方法分阶段提出运转的文件然后再送运转计划然后再补安全检查的资料会不会跟核三一样"},{"start":263.329,"end":287.291,"text":"呃相關的這個程序其實台電公司都是依照台電都是依照合約然後我都會背起來根據大家來說第一個要核安第二個就是核廢料要有地方第三個要社會共識這三個都是過去2016到現在這三個前提都在我剛在報告裡面有提到實際上就是依據運轉執照第16條之一跟第16條呢依法提出相關的"},{"start":289.332,"end":309.097,"text":"所以核二的部分跟奇異公司沒有這個核燃料的合約所以在國際上的部分他應該是還要再排隊至少等三年以核二目前來看的話應該還是要等三年這應該是確定的嘛對不對第一個我要澄清的他目前的燃料不是向奇異購買目前的燃料是向另外一家公司購買"},{"start":309.397,"end":338.451,"text":"那就是他因为他目前已经没有在合约所以应该照国际的规准应该还在至少等三年这是我们对核二如果万一他再启动的话这是一个问题啊那核废料的这个最终的处置的方法来我们请问谁可以这个经济部应该来回应啊因为你们去年大动作的成立一个这个废弃物的这个班这个专案办公室告诉我们说你们要最处理最终的这个作业啊但目前为止的草案在什么地方已经有任何的一个方式了吗"},{"start":339.071,"end":366.709,"text":"好 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協助機關來檢視了解公務車的使用有沒有什麼樣的一個風險來加強控管"},{"start":260.809,"end":275.774,"text":"所以我的意思是這樣啦齁我剛剛提了幾個點第一個監察院的陣風並沒有讓我看到他有真的在查這件事情所以我要了解的是那他的監察院的陣風他存在的價值在哪裡還是他就不做事了這第一個"},{"start":276.314,"end":297.167,"text":"第二個就是說如果依照監察院他們對自己的要求他寬以律己的要求認為呢你搭公務車去理髮就促請他注意那你搭公務車去看牙齒等一下如果有回來上班這個就沒問題不用苛責那如果這一套標準如果是的話那我們將來是不是我們要告訴我們全國的政風"},{"start":297.907,"end":323.627,"text":"人員說這個這套標準是這樣所以以後全國的公務員大大小小公務員你只要搭公務車出去看個牙齒回來繼續上班就沒有關係因為我要的是標準我不是苛責這個我不是找這些監委麻煩我也不是苛責我只是說全國你要有同一套標準不能說我面對自己的面對高官的時候我的標準非常的寬但是如果今天一個基層的檢察官他坐公務車去看牙齒再回來繼續寫書類"},{"start":325.188,"end":349.1,"text":"那就要處分他我的意思只是這樣不能有不一樣的標準但是我在這件事情上面看到似乎有不一樣的標準署長我不知道您的意思怎麼樣因為監察院的紀律委員會已經這樣子做出結論了那監察院的政風也沒有調查那我不知道您轄下的各機關的政風將來遇到這個事你會要他管還是要他不管"},{"start":350.35,"end":366.491,"text":"委員剛剛有報告全國我們就是依公務車使用管理人證指引這個來控管那另外在監察院政風的部分他有進行已經進行內部的集合他因為本身也掌管公務員的官僧"},{"start":367.632,"end":382.755,"text":"那你那個指引有包括要怎麼樣處理嗎有 全國都有這樣好了啦 我想這部分是不是麻煩您在一個月內能夠回覆一下回覆給我 監察院政風體系到底有沒有喪失功能"},{"start":384.408,"end":409.31,"text":"這個部分可以回覆我一下你們要跟我們講為什麼這次監察院的政務體系沒有啟動調查這是第一個第二個公務車的部分你們的指引會不會跟監察院紀律委員會的結論矛盾會不會監察院紀律委員會說監察委員都不用處理但是全國的公務員你要被處分好不好這部分麻煩你一個月回覆第二個我請調查局跟年證署也一起上來備詢"},{"start":410.891,"end":437.085,"text":"好 我請教一下 因為我現在講一個一年前發生的案子那因為這跟毒品也有關係有一個零性男子毒駕撞死的一個老師那後來被發現他是在吸食那個殭屍煙袋那法務部這次給我們的業務報告也寫得很清楚114年第13波查緝毒品的專案裡面就有說依托彌子他列為查緝的重點"},{"start":438.586,"end":466.334,"text":"所以法務部早就知道這個東西它已經進入社會而且它會上路 會出人命所以法務部才會加強的管理那我想第一個我先請教部長這個被告他是毒品列管的人口也有毒品前科 也有重傷害前科那現在被羈押了我想問這種人可以開車上路那等於被政府放生嘛那全民會說 那到底政府在哪裡問題出在哪裡 部長"},{"start":468.016,"end":493.752,"text":"這管理上面是不是有問題啊這個獨駕的委員也很重視啦那我想我們都是對獨駕是零容忍尤其還有肇事那這部分獨駕的確引起最近有些獨駕案件造成人命得意的傷害引起社會很大的關注所以我們這部分基層的檢察官在懲罰前我們都是會速查嚴辦所以我們說這部分會生壓那基本法院也都很支持部長"},{"start":494.873,"end":511.245,"text":"這講這個都沒有問題居城警察官都非常辛苦我那些老同事常常都打電話跟我跟我在那邊抱怨很多事所以我很清楚但是我現在要講的是另外一個問題我知道獨駕上路不是只有法務部的責任跟警察跟交通部的法規都有關聯性"},{"start":512.546,"end":536.535,"text":"但是呢我從去年10月我曾經執行過苗栗隨機殺人案我在那個案子的時候我已經有提過一個點就是法務部我們有很多預算是讓法務部去管理整個前科表或一些資料嘛那些資料本來是可以去做一些預防或高風險的評估就像一些金融他們有一些什麼紅旗警訊等等的把某些人可以列為一些高風險"},{"start":538.476,"end":559.023,"text":"防護部的系統本來就有毒品人口他出監前的轉嫌啦社區追蹤輔導更生保護關戶還有毒品那個防治中心還有一些資料銜接的這些資源都在你們手上所以你們對於這些高風險的人口其實你們是能掌握的那從去年10月我就一直說"},{"start":560.784,"end":579.377,"text":"從隨機殺人案我們可以看到這些資料法務部有法務部有沒有辦法去跟其他的單位能夠大家一起串聯起來看看可不可以對這些高風險的人口能夠多做一些管制譬如說我先提幾個我個人的淺見對於那些高風險的人口譬如說一些獨家"},{"start":580.638,"end":605.648,"text":"毒品人口 重大暴力犯罪的人我們對於這些族群 我們有沒有建立一個跨單位的轉介跟追蹤的機制存在再來一線執法的一些科技設備 譬如說監視器 車牌辨識系統 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假設撤銷這個因為我還是要再提一個"},{"start":753.434,"end":778.771,"text":"這個2013年宪判2號這個宣告無期徒刑的假釋犯那當時在宪判制的時候依照現有的制度當時大法官就已經說3月14號是最後修法的期限如果沒有過的話就是你們貴部也是公開說這些無期徒刑犯可能會被放回社會這是貴部講的嘛但是呢你們的這個流程其實速度我其實是存疑的啦因為"},{"start":779.963,"end":791.231,"text":"大法官給的是兩年是24個月但是呢你們司法那個那個行政院他卻到最後剩下三個月才送到"},{"start":792.284,"end":813.551,"text":"立法院而且這三個月裡面我們今年是沒有休會我知道但是依照過往的制度12月31號就休會了等於你們12月3號送到立法院如果依照過往的制度有兩個月休會你只剩下一個月要處理整個三讀的流程那今年雖然沒有休會但是你12月3號送進來之後"},{"start":815.783,"end":838.44,"text":"結果也沒有人來跟召委報告說這個要優先凡要趕快審都沒有啊所以大家都不知道那你們也沒有爭取要優先討論也沒有主動跟黨團說有這個案子其實這個跟過往的做法都不一樣過往因為修法是貴部主責嘛那過往貴部如果有發現一個案子很緊急他會趕快跟"},{"start":840.001,"end":867.031,"text":"趙偉說趕快跟黨團說然後我們才急著把這個東西處理好結果這次都沒有結果到最後剩下幾天我們才知道有這件事情然後才緊急的幾天內趕快進附二讀趕快給他通過雖然這個修法我們三黨都支持但是這個程序上面我覺得是不是要跟同仁溝通你這對很多立委都對這件事情不滿最後跟部長報告這件事情"},{"start":869.332,"end":881.899,"text":"24個月結果行政院搞了21個月才送出來剩下3個月的時間裡面還有過年還有原本以前是休會的期間硬的三讀就大家連討論也沒辦法也沒有時間討論什麼都沒有討論"},{"start":884.6,"end":909.031,"text":"剩下幾天硬給他通過因為我們也擔心這些無期徒刑犯放回社會對社會安全造成的影響所以大家就有共識趕快給他過所以我的意思只是這樣是不是以後像這種重大跟民生有關緊急的事情你們可以送來之後趕快跟黨團說跟召委說然後爭取優先排案讓我們趕快審查我們才有時間討論好不好這部分麻煩部長"},{"start":910.532,"end":935.134,"text":"這個謝謝委員各黨團修法完成這麻煩你要講因為檢察官辦案都有辦案期限啊三個月沒進行還會被長官電啊這我們都知道嘛那不能說這樣子你只有三個月送進來然後我們根本立委其實立委對這一個案子其實還蠻反彈的不管藍綠其實對這個為什麼剩下那麼短時間都很有意見好不好跟部長報告這個事情好 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Cloud他們就要去"},{"start":108.177,"end":129.536,"text":"去做這個架構去做安全的協定所以未來會不會他推出這個時候會不會相關的這些安全協定就被他定義了那政府的角色在哪這第一件事情那再來看到中國當然他們有他們的特殊的文化需求所以他們說他們的AI輸出必須符合這個社會主義核心價值所以說包含說他們那些什麼豆包那些有的沒有的有些東西是不能談的談的會"},{"start":130.797,"end":141.12,"text":"會被他反駁那歐盟是更嚴格那新加坡現在是做沙盒那我要問的是說那我們台灣現在數位部的角色你是要扮演我們會比較想要走"},{"start":142.963,"end":167.103,"text":"這幾個路線的哪一種未來我們到底在這個AI Agent的立場上面我們的態度是什麼那個委員提的這個問題非常好剛剛委員舉的這幾個國家美國中國跟歐盟他們在AI風險上面的觀點是非常不一樣的那歐盟的觀點是認為說那個AI是非常危險的所以在他們的AI基本法就是AIEU Act裡面他們列出八種不可以發展的AI形態"},{"start":168.084,"end":187.36,"text":"但是相對來講美國認為就是Regulation hinders innovation他們常常喜歡講這句話就是說太多的法規限制會阻礙科技的進展所以美國的政策從拜登政府以來就是一直是開放那尤其是在川普總統第二次上任以後他整個就是持開放的態度就是讓整個政府去"},{"start":188.221,"end":205.595,"text":"整個民間企業去發展不做多做限制那當然中國呢就是我們都知道就是國家說了算那我們台灣當然不能走中國的模式那我們現在是希望能在美國跟歐盟中間的模式之中找到一個平衡點那個模式會不會是新加坡模式他們也是希望"},{"start":206.756,"end":227.646,"text":"開放啊 但是開放前有一個類似監理沙盒的概念嘛 那個安全沙盒的概念嘛OK 是 事實上新加坡跟台灣還有那個日本韓國事實上都受到一些某種那個外交上的壓力因為那個歐盟跟美國的觀點不一樣那歐盟跟美國都希望我們站在他那邊所以我們現在是"},{"start":228.846,"end":244.381,"text":"我們這些中等的民主國家我們就是有不同方法那我們現在的AI基本法制定就是採用三層的架構來管理風險最上一層是那個AI基本法中層的是那個我們的AI風險分類框架"},{"start":244.961,"end":264.913,"text":"然後由蘇發部來訂,訂完以後由衛福部、監管會還有交通部各自去負責AI在醫療應用、在金融應用以及在交通應用上面的作用法由他們來訂所以我們這個方式,我們自己稱為臺灣模式事實上有許多的中等民主國家都來詢問因為他覺得我們這個方法應該是個不錯的方向"},{"start":268.564,"end":295.82,"text":"就是我跟部長也談過這有點像哲學問題所以我們到底要走這個美國還是歐盟路線但是當然我們的立場就是說我們現在不管是我們的市場我們的平常的這個外交關係或是所謂台灣鄉縣的民主價值裡面理論上如果用太多的這樣的監管機制其實會阻礙整個產業的發展我覺得這個是我們要去思考除了你剛剛提到說除了外交會有些外交壓力之外但我覺得還是要站在我們產業的發展裡面去做"},{"start":296.44,"end":306.647,"text":"那當然還要回答一個比較現實的問題說那像對於這種AI的這個AI agent未來政府立場這種AI助理會不會跟我們的公務系統做基本做一些結合還是"},{"start":308.328,"end":336.581,"text":"會把它杜絕在公務系統的門外是我個人我的看法是說長期來講這個一定會融入公務系統因為像這種Agentic AI對我們公務人員的辦事效率會有大幅的提升但是短期來講因為這個技術實在是太輕了當一個很新的技術出現的時候它裡面會有很多的資安風險這些資安風險還在陸續發掘當中所以我們就知道最近有很多的新聞都是講到Open Cloud"},{"start":337.382,"end":352.113,"text":"有一些人使用OpenCloud以後一覺醒來發現OpenCloud把他的信用卡刷爆了然後這些事情都會然後昨天那個黃立勳在那個GTC裡面他也發表那個NemoCloud那他就是要"},{"start":353.033,"end":370.166,"text":"很大的一個原因就是要解決這些資安風險的問題所以回到剛剛我的問題就是說如果一開始我提到如果以後比如說黃仁勳他定說他用了Nemo Cloud這樣的概念去處理這個事情那未來我們的所謂的安全架構是用他的版本還是我們自己政府會有自己的想法"},{"start":370.726,"end":391.767,"text":"我們還是要有我們自己的主導性因為坦白講那個黃瑞勳他們現在推出了一個Nemo Cloud的一個很大的原理我們那個業界的判斷就是他要講話語權因為那個Open Cloud是一個開源的那個模型那以前很多AI的事情都是NVIDIA說了算那現在Open Cloud已經在話語權上挑戰到"},{"start":392.708,"end":410.315,"text":"那個NVIDIA所以NVIDIA趕快就推出這個Nemo Cloud要想辦法把這個話語權還有標準的制定權他想辦法把把他在不能說搶回來至少他要保持他的話語權沒關係那我們呢我們的態度你們什麼就是數位部有沒有要推出相關的法律上的做法還是說"},{"start":411.941,"end":436.58,"text":"看看這個科技的發展再決定怎麼做因為通常就是政府在這種科技發展上面我們就如同前面講的我們必須在美國跟歐盟中間一個折衷點但即使是歐盟這個他們在AI立法上是非常的aggressive非常的很衝 很衝可是他們就遇到這個事情他們也都要觀察一陣子在做立法"},{"start":437.16,"end":458.963,"text":"事實上像那個歐盟的那個UAIA他們自己就承認他們事實上他們當初在立這個法的時候完全沒有預料到會有那個Chad GPT的出現結果他這個法律的那個草案一公佈出來的時候剛好Chad GPT那個也出現了結果讓他們忙了一陣子因為法律立法的速度通常都比不上科技的發展科技會跑得比較快"},{"start":460.103,"end":482.394,"text":"所以我們的態度就是等到後續再看著先看我們會先看業界比如說Nemo Cloud執行的狀況是怎麼樣再推出相關的狀況好那接下來我們看到我們來看下一頁其實黃仁勳其實定義了幾件事情就是說他對於這個AI產業他有所謂能源晶片機的設置模型應用是那我想問的是說我們對數位部你的角色就是我們台灣的因為能源當然不給你管啦"},{"start":482.734,"end":498.92,"text":"是但是晶片基礎設施模型應用這些可能是數位部要做的事情但我們到底台灣在這個整個AI產業裡面我們台灣的這個定位部長你覺得我們在晶片還是在基礎設施還是在模型還是在應用要發揮我們的功能"},{"start":499.6,"end":525.91,"text":"如果用這個架構來講的話事實上就有一個很重要的事情就是我們台灣必須建立我們自己AI的算力那原因是什麼呢就我們剛才很多包含您還有很多委員都問到就是這個管轄權的問題如果說所有這些算力中心這些AI model都在海外的話我們在法律上是管不到的所以我們認為說至少政府使用的AI模型它這個必須是在境內這個也是主權AI的另外一個很重要的意義"},{"start":527.91,"end":552.695,"text":"這個部長如果這樣講的話我們看到下一頁我們看到這個數字的部分當然現在我們提出一百億這十年期的這個計畫是一百億台幣已經差很多但是放在全球規模它就是三億美元左右的這個資金啦是那跟我們旁邊的中國然後跟美國跟歐盟或是跟我們主要基深所謂主要基深對日本韓國日本韓國的金額十二兆新台幣三零二兆新台幣相比其實我們一百億新台幣相對還是少非常非常多"},{"start":553.255,"end":573.561,"text":"那再來是這個大型資料中心目前看起來都是主要都是外商Meta、Microsoft然後AWS、Google在台灣設資料中心是那所以我們自己的所謂的主權或是我們的地端的這個資料中心我們會不會自己建立還有這個資金一百億台幣花十年期要怎麼樣去跟其他國家這些其他國家的主權做競爭這個東西要怎麼處理"},{"start":574.781,"end":593.513,"text":"是 我認為這個問題也非常好因為我們事實上看到像美國的那個STARTGATE PROJECT這個錢其實也不是美國政府出的他去找那個孫正義那個日本的孫正義還有美國的一些企業這個都是民間企業在出的錢所以我們現在速發部要做的事情也是一樣那我們現在第一個是說我們就是"},{"start":594.494,"end":617.304,"text":"透過那個韓式的方式那我們就是把那個AI算力中心列為重大的基礎設施那這樣讓那個台灣的保險業龐大的資金這個資金非常非常龐大他都可以投資在那個算力中心的設置因為原來金管會那邊對於那個保險業資金是有很強烈的監管因為保險業的大量資金如果投資失敗的話引發金融風暴"},{"start":621.486,"end":649.469,"text":"所以他會列出說有哪些產業是可以投資的那我們現在就是透過韓市給那個發函給那個金管會我們會把這個保險業的資金開放出來那我們也跟那個那個財政部我們就把它列為重大投資方案讓民間企業可以投資這個算力中心那據我們所知我們現在事實上已經收到鴻海的那個投資的申請那這些金額也都會比較大這些金額通常都比我們政府的預算還大"},{"start":649.989,"end":671.218,"text":"有沒有看到洪海明你要在台灣打造這個資料中心這個沒問題的那你有沒有預計台灣的這些應該這樣講政府出100億那你預計或是你希望我們台灣這些產業或是整體的投資金額在這個事情上面在短期內不管十年期五年期要投入多少的規模你總會有一個目標設定嘛大家才知道到底我們要往什麼方向走"},{"start":672.138,"end":692.284,"text":"因為這些台灣的那個算力的中心的建築以政府部門來講的話大部分其實是在國科會那邊那我們這邊數發布很少的可憐我們原來只有在前年只有40片的那個那個GPU那因為去年我們的預算被砍掉了所以我們本來要再兼建100片那都沒有"},{"start":693.084,"end":707.98,"text":"所以我們現在速發布還是只有40片的那個GPU那鴻海那個計畫應該就超過1萬片GPU那這方面還請委員多支持在預算方面我們很希望今年還是能再增加100片的GPU好沒問題這個就趕快提吧好謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167570","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167570","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053a0b16607070185ca75f3d6415d2a29ea854b2f19bd25f7008ce2492c85169a165ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李昆澤","委員發言時間":"09:39:11 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請一下林部長我們邀請蘇澳部林部長"},{"start":14.318,"end":33.894,"text":"委員長 部長好 在網路以及數位快速發展的時代我們一直有一個擔憂就是資訊安全的架構跟不上這樣一個網路數據的快速的這樣的一個流動的狀況 是 那近期我們看到有"},{"start":34.995,"end":61.511,"text":"跨境電商以及政黨的各自外洩引起國人的這個相關的擔憂那我們看到在這樣一個狀況之下在技術的這樣的一個發展的過程裡面大家都急迫追求這樣一個商品短期開發的速度但是相關的技術的資安的這樣的一個配備"},{"start":62.472,"end":79.663,"text":"以及準備是跟不上這樣的一個開發的速度所以我們看到有很多資安外洩的各自外洩的嚴重狀況那當然有兩個問題我們必須要去重視第一個都沒有辦法去及時發現這樣一個風險就是說都是透過這樣一個駭客"},{"start":83.786,"end":107.079,"text":"警示或者是駭客已經提出勒索相關的這樣一個狀況才發覺治安有這樣的一個狀況另外一個就是在於我們這樣一個跨境電商他們的這個母公司都是在其他地方例如新加坡等等那我們這樣的一個跨境電商各自外洩"},{"start":108.467,"end":118.895,"text":"全球總共有3370萬筆的資料會受到影響那確認台灣大概有20萬左右的用戶啊有遭到非法的一個接觸"},{"start":121.977,"end":141.213,"text":"跨境電商號稱只有一名的台灣用戶資料遭到竊取或是儲存我們請數位部有加緊速度來瞭解這樣的一個狀況來保障民眾的個資我要請教一下部長 相關的這樣的一個調查狀況進度是如何"},{"start":143.115,"end":168.286,"text":"是 這個事情那個就是之前我們發現這個案子以後我們就馬上去調查那剛開始就是這您所說的這個跨境電商跟我們講都沒有台灣的資料受到那個就是被存取那事實上後來我們那個經過我們庶產署不斷的努力之後我們請第三方的機構去認證就發現是說事實上的確是有超過20萬筆的資料被"},{"start":172.762,"end":196.761,"text":"被存取那這邊想說所謂只有一名台灣用戶這個我必須說明這個是在那個犯案者的電腦上後面只找到一筆剩下一筆那個資料其他是被刪除了我們不知道但是其實我們據我們所知不只一筆不是只有一筆台灣的個資遭到那個遭到那個駭客的那個閱讀這個是必須跟委員說明"},{"start":197.321,"end":216.931,"text":"那相關蘇華部對這件事情後續處理的態度是如何原則是如何對我們一切依法辦理那這件事情已經進入了這個法律的程序那我們會依照這個相關的法律那我們是不是請那個素產署蘇長說明是那檢調說明一下我們3月4號已經送行政院各支署"},{"start":217.771,"end":233.3,"text":"然後我們把我們行政檢查的結果請這個那家跨境電商進行說明所以我們一切都在程序當中當然我們等行政院這邊召開會議來在會中說明保障民眾的個資這也是蘇衛部一個重要的責任"},{"start":234.761,"end":258.516,"text":"必須要加緊相關的督促的工作另外我一再的提醒林部長我們對於數位主權的開發以及重視當然數化部現在已經建立了台灣主權AI的訓練餘料庫那大概規模大概是11億的2 case的這樣的一個資料的集中那來源大概涵蓋是200個政府機關"},{"start":261.98,"end":284.625,"text":"我要請教部長說11億的2case相較於國際的這種主流模型動輒都是塑造的這樣的2case那差距是數千倍以上而且更關鍵的我們的羽料的這些來源是政府機關我想我們對於量少是一個問題"},{"start":286.585,"end":314.573,"text":"偏差更是一個嚴重的問題因為你都集中在政府機關那我們量少又偏重在政府機關我們有什麼競爭力來部長說明一下首先要講說我們通常那種大型語料庫像Chad GP像Cloud這種語料庫他用的訓練資料量非常大但是裡面中文的資料量並沒有那麼多那我們現在遇到最大的困難是他大量使用中國的簡體中文的資料量那都是他們的那個觀點"},{"start":315.553,"end":341.951,"text":"所以我們現在要加入繁體中文的資料量我們希望做一個平衡那11億個token聽起來很多但是其實相較起來我們當然覺得還不夠多所以我們接下來我們希望說在一直擴大我們現在是先從那個最簡單處理就是政府有著作權的資料包含中研院等資料我們放進來接下來我們希望民間也能提供一些資料那這個就是我們設計一個那個標準的授權條款讓民間"},{"start":346.514,"end":359.088,"text":"能夠訓練出有獨立判斷的模型另外目前在3000多筆的資料集之中絕大部分都是政府的這種"},{"start":360.889,"end":386.759,"text":"重複性很高低品質的這樣一個行政公報這樣對於台灣的數位主權提升還是有很大的一段距離我們有什麼改善的方式我們跟民間團體有進一步的合作嗎我們是否會編列預算像民間團體或是文學出版單位來採購或是武藏這樣的一個高品質的語料來說明一下"},{"start":387.6,"end":403.799,"text":"這件事情我們之前跟這些大型語言模型的公司像Google等跟他們討論問他們說為什麼你都不用台灣的這個繁體中文語料他就跟我們講說兩個原因第一個是中國的簡體中文語料量比較大第一個量比較大"},{"start":404.019,"end":425.584,"text":"第二個是因為中國那邊比較不注重著作財產權所以他們用那邊的語料去訓練就是很安全的不會有被告不會有任何的糾紛但是台灣是一個注重著作財產權的國家然後他們在乎的其實不是錢而是談判的成本因為他必須去跟每一家的那個每一個作者去談部長你現在就提到重點了"},{"start":426.244,"end":452.744,"text":"相關於著作權我們對於數位主權未來的開發及訓練的過程裡面這是一個很嚴肅而且是一個很麻煩的議題那樹花不好在114年8月已經有提出相關的促進資料創新利用的發展條例它是一個草案那這項草案的核心就是在於開放資料跟共享資料"},{"start":453.464,"end":473.361,"text":"那而且啊是引用一種概念叫資料利他的這樣的一個概念那鼓勵民間啊無償的提供相關的資料但是啊著作權法我們現行的草案沒有去處理到著作權法裡面啊從治權的一個爭議啊是沒錯就是說"},{"start":474.722,"end":496.532,"text":"因為我們目前都是依賴這個很模糊的第65條有關於合理使用的這個條款那這個會讓主權AI的開發跟訓練面臨高風度的法律風險就是說住宿權法沒有提供"},{"start":497.577,"end":512.224,"text":"明確的這樣的一個資料探勘的豁免那很容易我們國家花了數十億數十億開發的這種台版的大語言模型啊或是相關主權的模型啊"},{"start":513.605,"end":539.945,"text":"他的訓練過程裡面會很容易陷入這種非法重製的這樣的一個灰色地帶如果民間團體他們集體來提告如果這種集體訴訟法院判定我們是侵權問題很嚴重因為國家級花了幾十億所建立的模型很容易就被法院下令要永久封存"},{"start":540.325,"end":562.271,"text":"是或是所謂的銷毀權重就是刪除大量的相關內容是那這會陷入一個窘境啊是沒錯美處長你們要怎麼處理啊是事實上跟委員報告基本上這種由科技創新對著作財產權帶來的衝擊通常要少則要三五年才會塵埃落定因為現在有兩方都各"},{"start":562.811,"end":589.188,"text":"各有道理一方面這個我們剛才講的AI產業希望能有大量的資料但是對於這個出版業還有文化界等等他們認為說這些AI模型不能無償的使用這些資料這在法律上會有一些爭議這個還在討論應該講說是討論那因為這是著作財產權是經濟部智慧財產局他們的主責那我們會密切的跟他們合作那我們在這個過程當中我們沒辦法處理"},{"start":590.188,"end":599.805,"text":"因為這個整個討論要結束真的要三五年那我們現在先處理的就是比較沒有爭議的就是政府有鑄作財產權的部分這個就是我們現在在做的事情"},{"start":601.852,"end":627.686,"text":"部長我們現在國際AI的競爭非常的快速主流都是已經進入到快速擴張起這個階段但是我們的數位主權在相關的訓練不管是資料來源或是相關著作權法裡面相關的爭議到現在都還沒有辦法進一步的處理這個數位部必須要加緊速度是 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請委員長委員長早安我要繼續這個TCML的議題我們目前在去年我們的TCML在全球的設置確實是88所那到今年115年"},{"start":24.565,"end":46.743,"text":"已經有94所而且是在115年我們在加拿大澳洲紐西蘭跟日本一口氣我們就增加了10所像今年3月初我到澳洲墨爾本跟雪梨去做參訪剛好委員長也到澳洲的各大城市去做這個揭牌所以在這裡非常肯定僑委會在海外擴大設置的這個努力"},{"start":50.206,"end":53.188,"text":"那我想請教一下就是說確實我們剛剛有發現一個數據的這個變化我有看到就是說美國其實在114年確確實實是有68所可是到了115年呢卻變成了64所我不曉得這變化是怎麼一回事是猜測了還是做結合還是怎麼樣這個說明一下嗎"},{"start":70.041,"end":74.445,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們這個計畫其實也是一石多鳥多影曲的一個設計有鑑於我們在海外的僑民組織呢從五六十年前移民一路到今天事實上他們都已經有第三代第四代的出生了但是他們的僑民的第二第三代之後的學習狀況已經都落實在當地的主流"},{"start":94.202,"end":98.023,"text":"對於我們原來的僑校招生上面的數量是在減緩的也就是說我們僑民人數沒有在增加了然後學生願意在因為主流社會很多已經也有提供華語學習的機會的時候有些家長就不再送孩子去僑校所以事實上過去幾年十年當中我們是觀察到我們在全球的僑校是萎縮的因此我們在五年前開始的這個計畫呢事實上也是幫助某些僑校"},{"start":123.75,"end":138.88,"text":"進行轉型因為我們知道後來他的這個橋校裡面的學生聲援變成將近有四成都是來自中國裔的學生了或者是多元族裔的學生了那基於這樣的轉變我們就認為說事實上我們的這種階段性的任務事實上橋校已經走到了一個瓶頸"},{"start":146.365,"end":161.335,"text":"所以透過這個計畫讓他們參與看他們能不能轉型成功那絕大多數都有轉型成功但仍然有幾個學校是沒有辦法突破自己原來的局限所以我們在合作兩到三年如果他能不能達到我們的標準的時候我們就會讓他退場了"},{"start":164.378,"end":171.805,"text":"所以我們有一定的招生的這個要求就是說你每一個學期要開課多少時數然後學生人數必須要達到多少人數只有在這個標準之下能夠達成目標的我們才會持續跟他簽約那如果他無法達成這個目標的話那我們就會考量跟他協商說那明年"},{"start":185.538,"end":189.583,"text":"是不是你還有意願沒有意願我們也覺得你的成績沒有辦法達成我們就進行解約不再續約的動作所以確實是有幾個學校他發展的目標他就是沒有辦法往這個主流的成人方向去走"},{"start":201.495,"end":224.628,"text":"他仍然是focus因為有一兩個學校其實經營的還是不錯的但他就覺得說他還是只想focus在這些學生小孩子的身上他不想跨領域去成人的部分所以他經過了兩三年努力他覺得仍然是跟他自己在發展的規模上面是有一些不太能夠吻合的地方所以像這樣子的我們也都不勉強所以確實委員觀察很仔細我們有幾所是退場了"},{"start":228.97,"end":246.196,"text":"那這個都主要是在美國為主那麼在歐洲的部分也有一兩所退場那所以我們都是以每一年它的績效如何我們都會進行考察所以如果是特優的或者優等的或者是良好的我們就會持續那如果你連續兩年都是這個未達標準那我們就會進行解約"},{"start":251.458,"end":277.511,"text":"就不再浪費我們的資源的投資跟這個處理所以這個確實會有這樣的狀況所以這個調整的主動權都還是在喬委會所以我們都還是會看他的績效等等我們看看有沒有必要來做延續所以那個數字其實我們也不堅持如果真的是沒有辦法配合或績效沒辦法到達的話其實我們就跟他就是解除就不再續約了我們因為是一年一月嘛"},{"start":278.031,"end":281.795,"text":"是那另外呢我想請教有關於這個師資的培訓的這個部分像這個TCML的這個師資培訓呢我知道小委會有推有推動相關有開辦這個學習中心師資認證的培訓專班那還有補助教師進修跟提升師資專業能力等等的這些訓練課程那麼當然"},{"start":300.211,"end":325.038,"text":"我們最主要的目的就希望說這些老師能夠取得這個教師執照進入到主流學校裡面去做任教所以我們有一些鼓勵跟這個補助的這個相關的這個獎勵喔可是本期有發現說這個獎勵喔因為我們有我看到全友會有推動一個補助及獎勵華語教師休息教育學分計劃可是這個計劃呢"},{"start":327.659,"end":348.255,"text":"其實他只有在美國來做推廣只限於美國可是我們TCML其實已經廣泛的設置在像歐洲大洋洲跟其他的地方為什麼其他地方沒有獨獨只有美國有這個計畫是因為我們有分階段要來做推行這個部分是不是要來解釋一下說明一下"},{"start":349.236,"end":377.471,"text":"我們確實是希望未來能夠在全球這樣做但是第一階段的時候是因為我們跟美國有簽約那簽了約我們是要focus在推動美國相關的這個業務但是我們推動過程當中覺得說只有在美國推動很可惜我們還有很多其他的點所以才會擴大到歐洲所以第一階段我們是以歐洲跟美國為核心然後去年底開始以後我們就第一階段結束我們就進入第二階段"},{"start":378.251,"end":402.484,"text":"那因此我們就開放給全球才會多增加這四個國家出來那有關於這個主流教師的部分是有鑑於我們認為說美國一開始是希望我們要幫他們多培育老師因為美國是缺師資缺得非常嚴重他們的不管是primary school,middle school就是很多公立學校基本上都找不到師資尤其在COVID之後"},{"start":403.544,"end":414.474,"text":"那基於這樣的一個狀況他們不單缺這個STEM方面的這些老師STEM就是包括Science、Engineer、Mathematic、Technology的老師以外其他的華語師資也是一樣不夠那所以我們就藉這個過程當中希望說鼓勵一些人能夠盡可能的去把教育學分修完"},{"start":423.723,"end":449.244,"text":"就是我們的移民能夠去修完教育學分那麼將華語當作是一個專業那如果他能夠取得學分然後專業去考照那他才有機會進到主流學校去教書那去主流學校教書可以影響的範圍就會更落實嘛那我們一方面也把我們的教材也開始向主流學校去推廣那去推廣的過程當中如果有我們台藝的主流老師在裡面那是最容易推廣的"},{"start":449.884,"end":464.915,"text":"他一看就知道我們的教材好壞與否所以我們是以鼓勵性質所以在這個方面是沒有設定目標不過我必須要很誠實的說在美國現在的系統裡面因為中小學老師的待遇也沒有非常好"},{"start":466.115,"end":485.366,"text":"所以因為這樣我們雖然有了鼓勵可是大家在職業的發展上並沒有想要特別往這個方向去努力來得到這個license那因為我們的移民當中很多都受到很好的professional的教育所以他們的income收入就業的機會比這個更多更好這也是我們的一個難處所以我們緊緊都在鼓勵說那還有能夠有第一代的"},{"start":492.79,"end":518.697,"text":"第一代的學生的或第一代的移民的他們能夠轉到這個方向去增加他們在美國主流學校這個教育學生的機會所以僅僅是這樣子的一個思考那同時TCML的老師我們也有他鼓勵進階計畫就是說第一如果沒有接受過我們任何培訓的老師呢他的終點費只有50塊美金可是他接受過我們第一期的初階培訓的我們就把他提到55"},{"start":519.637,"end":525.059,"text":"如果還有進階的培訓也完成的我們就提到60這個也是鼓勵華語教學的專業化的一個趨勢所以基於我們這樣幾個政策性的引導以後呢確實都會讓我們的師資教學的品質都一再的提升這是以上跟委員說明所以說 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user就是我一直長時間使用的量這些活躍性的用戶的數量是多少然後對他的成效有沒有幫助不管是在成本的控制或者是產業的效益"},{"start":100.97,"end":121.548,"text":"那假設你號稱的11萬次的一些的下載就是做某些APP那對照一些農業人口也是要去考量你的這一個使用率夠不夠再來很大的一個問題從歷屆審計部的報告還有以前我們在做這個智慧農業的時候其實這個資料的整合度很糟糕"},{"start":122.569,"end":149.967,"text":"完全是不足再來的話就是導入的成本偏高再來就是產效預測的一個不彰成效的問題那另外跟這個整合不足有關就是因為你沒有去做這樣的標準化那我大概再往下看幾個簡單的盤點像第一個農災的APP這個GPS的定位極度不穩那你在強制拍攝的時候基本上有些腦容的一個使用的狀況"},{"start":151.496,"end":163.285,"text":"那審計部在過去也調查過你的這個拍回來的面積基本上是小於你這個土地的補助的面積所以這個東西的資料的落差要去把它精實的弄到"},{"start":164.244,"end":192.344,"text":"那另外來講的話像這個在製農的生態系的一些的補助那這些補助的話通常都要求他的這個資本的形成一個門檻當然這個對青農或者是產銷班就是一個很大的負擔所以這個地方也許可以參考一下經濟部的做法有一些是比較中大型的有一些是比較新創的那在這方面的一個審查的補助的一個門檻"},{"start":193.365,"end":215.874,"text":"可以讓我們這些有製回來的輕農或者是比較活躍性的比較接近央視帶的這樣子的一個產銷班可以來做進行那當然這還有很多的問題包含漁船的Wi-Fi那個5億的前陣的匯管還有這一個你假裝了Wi-Fi之後那船東他可能認為管理權不善不好管也不願意裝"},{"start":216.914,"end":241.929,"text":"那犬中的地圖APP我看到剛剛這個您的報告裡頭也有這樣的說明但是在這個人犬衝突的熱區這裡很像沙鹿那個深坑那個地方那基本上也要把它列入一個即時的更新那某些東西還在做這件事情就是好好的因為我們花了這些的錢所以一定要從你的使用效益來看這件事情"},{"start":243.82,"end":263.092,"text":"那底下這邊的話我想也就是我剛講的整個在你的導入的時候這個智慧化的一個工具你要看的是它的售價的一個提升或者是通路的拓展風險的降低所以你的KPI的設定不要再用那種output的一個方式"},{"start":264.073,"end":284.33,"text":"我有多少人下載我建置了多少功能我使用了多少的資料資料對我來講如果你是Garbage 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out一點效益也都沒有那這個會導致到一件事情我們常常在這些的新聞報章媒體雜誌都會看到我們希望"},{"start":285.253,"end":310.43,"text":"透過數位化的方式透過大數據分析甚至你們今天常常喊的AI各部會常常喊AI農業部也是我覺得你是會AI而AI就很麻煩資料一定要對資料一定要及時像這一個的預估本來就是很困難的一件事情從我們以前做智慧系統的角度來看"},{"start":311.482,"end":335.779,"text":"你的資料的清洗、標誌、收集、涵蓋率是不是夠再來你的模型到底是用什麼樣子的模型然後準或不準會不會去調所以我覺得這些東西大概是我從比較資通訊專業的角度來提醒農業部因為我們花了很多的錢"},{"start":337.302,"end":351.462,"text":"所以這個地方來講的話我想請部長做一個簡單的回答就好非常謝謝委員的一些建議特別是非常專業的一些建議那我第一個跟各位跟委員報告智慧農業是當初我在農業實驗所當所長的時候勾發出來的"},{"start":354.466,"end":377.523,"text":"那當初的整個智慧農業的規劃,重點是在智慧農業的落地所以整個農業的生產,智慧農業是一個協助,它不是主角它是一個協助的作為那第三個部分剛才你特別提到了,我們如果透過很多GPS在定位的時候會有不準其實我們在過去三四年當中,我們導入了RTK的系統"},{"start":378.543,"end":400.929,"text":"所以現在全台灣的農業的這些無人機在飛的時候都透過RTK定位的時候它的精準度可以達到兩到三公分它就不會隨著一般的那個我們所用的手機做漂移所以有很多我同意剛才委員所說的我們很多KPI是用所謂的人次或是使用的次數我覺得我們的KPI應該是將智慧農"},{"start":405.891,"end":424.911,"text":"業協助產業的落地的那個成果當作我們的一個指標我想後續我想我會要求我們的同仁做這樣的一個處理好我想這個在之後的話因為我對這個問題很關心因為用科技來幫助農業是我過去的長期的工作項目之一"},{"start":425.371,"end":446.644,"text":"我有做過很多智慧農業相關的尤其是在物聯網、田間作物的偵測農漁業的養殖等等所以這裡頭我還是拜託部長以及所屬這些相關的單位回去好好盤點一下你們的智慧農業的預算然後要做的工作"},{"start":447.724,"end":463.529,"text":"然後以及過去不管是審計部或是立法院預算中心給你們的缺失報告那之後的改善缺失那可不可以寫一個完整的分析報告給我多久這樣一個月可以嗎一個月可以好謝謝再來"},{"start":465.336,"end":485.639,"text":"那下一個的話呢這個我想都是一樣的問題因為資料是很重要的所以在你的分析報告也納入資料的這樣子的統合因為這個是很多人詬病的我在各地方縣市做的IoT資料但你沒辦法彙整回來你的農業部就不會有什麼就不會有數位儀表板你就不會有精確的這些的分析好"},{"start":486.9,"end":511.828,"text":"那再來的話呢當然在我們的關稅大家談了很多ART的東西但是我還是提醒部長尤其是在這個稻米的底價啦或者是這個自動承認農藥的MRL或者是像這些GI的品牌危機雖然他都寫在比較附近的這個小的地方那我還是希望部長給我們一些在產業的衝擊分析報告裡頭也可以交給我們"},{"start":513.468,"end":536.735,"text":"我第一個要跟委員說明這個台美的協議我們現在談的絕對不是一個喪權辱國的一個配方它其實對台灣農業反而是一個新的機會跟新的契機那我想後續我想我們會陸續將我們得到的這些新的契機跟新的競爭力的部分來提供給委員好那最後只有一個簡單的問題拜託你們的資訊去更新一下"},{"start":537.864,"end":553.897,"text":"因為現在的是122所以是10%加MFN但是你們的網站還是在15%15%根本川普都還沒宣告的好 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尤其委員長 謝謝"},{"start":8.078,"end":30.482,"text":"沈委員早安好 委員長早剛剛因為剛好前面委員有提到海外信用保證基金這個之前我也有問過其實最主要還是針對這一個所謂的預算沒有通過的一個影響有一部分是我前面問過今天還有新增一些那一開始我上次在問的時候就是一些新增計劃新增計劃就是沒有辦法動用所以這個部分我覺得應該上次也是說明清楚了"},{"start":36.623,"end":63.535,"text":"那現在我想追問就是說兩個地方第一個就是因為我們有這一個益助海外信用保證基金我們有對這個企業的協助那因為前陣子剛好川普啟動了這個301啦那啟動301的話呢這一個台灣是被包含在裡面那當然因為前面關稅有談到這個一個deal所以那些是不受影響的但一旦他啟動了301之後會影響的也有包含我們一些在"},{"start":64.375,"end":68.917,"text":"海外投資的企業目前來講我們針對這件事情有沒有什麼新的因應的措施最主要還是以經濟部輔導為核心我們當然會透過我們在海外因為有些人可能會先找到你們有可能因為我們世界台商總會的系統算是分佈的也很廣有一些過去帶台灣出去的投資企業比較沒有參加這個系統"},{"start":90.964,"end":95.067,"text":"近年來他們已經意識到說我們的這個平台價值所以逐漸的也會有一些人會來尋求跟我們做一些合作所以這種聲音我們當然也是會有聽到比方說去年那個Giant就是巨大被調查的這個狀況那因此我們其實也相當關心因為我們其實提供過巨大在歐洲的兩個大廠"},{"start":114.839,"end":118.504,"text":"其中一個在匈牙利的華語文課程就是由本會的TCML去擔任的那至於有一些調查在301的這個範圍內的廠商呢他其實不設限在海外包括在"},{"start":129.977,"end":148.771,"text":"台灣境內的也會進入調查的範圍所以這些基本上還是會持續的讓我們在海外的台商知道說如果有相關訊息大家可以先回報給我們讓我們知道說那個PATTERN到底是什麼模式那大家可以做一些相關的準備如果有不適當的就趕快進行調整避免被列入這個301報復的這個對象裡面"},{"start":154.876,"end":162.324,"text":"對 而且我覺得有時候就是經濟部他可能會有一些措施但是這些他可能不清楚經濟部基本上因為在海外也有設立他的經濟組所以這些經濟組還有外貿協會的這個單位的同仁呢他們可能最近也都很加強在處理這一塊事情就是針對已經在海外投資的企業廠商或"},{"start":176.377,"end":203.971,"text":"國內我比較不擔心但國外的這些海外企業廠商他們可能都有一個通知讓他們知道說他們在近期如果有接到什麼樣的狀況的時候應當要怎麼去回應那就拜託僑委會扮演好橋樑的工作因為畢竟很多時候他們很喜歡找你們是的接下來就是另外一個事情就是說除了新興計劃之外因為預算上只要有比去年增加的有多出來的那個也沒有辦法動用對"},{"start":205.852,"end":227.963,"text":"之前我有稍微問過有哪些這個是我們自己又再去比對了一下這兩年的預算書發現有一些地方之前還沒有討論到所以我可能想就教一下第一個就是一般行政的人員維持費因為這個人員維持費看起來也多了我看兩千萬左右然後下面這個更重要了這個是治安的"},{"start":228.303,"end":239.724,"text":"那資安的這個也多了大概六百多萬六百多萬那這個現在該第一個就是它增加的理由是什麼這個資安大概是很明顯那問題是那現在如果不能動用那我們現在應對的方式是什麼"},{"start":241.517,"end":259.626,"text":"這個我確實有一點苦惱因為到現在為止115年度的預算都還沒付為都還沒審查所以我連動用第二餘倍金的機會也沒有一旦沒有審查第一第二餘倍金通通沒有機會用了所以我的這個資安風險本來要做健診的計畫很可能因此會延後那延後的時候我又等於會存在一個空檔的風險"},{"start":267.97,"end":279.297,"text":"所以這段時間我只能請我們資訊室要加強提高我們內部的一個教育訓練希望大家要提高警覺任何什麼狀況一定要進行回報機制當然我們還是希望說今年度的預算要盡快審核通過以便我們可以執行治安的建整計畫因為以全球的結構來說這種風險"},{"start":292.885,"end":316.367,"text":"資訊戰的風險已經越來越高了連同美國的公務機關官方也都已經有被攻擊嚴重的情形了更何況是我們在第一線的台灣所以類似這樣的情況我們是希望說經費老實講也不是很多可是因為預算沒有審核我相信審核也會過可是問題是沒有附委所以還是期許大院可以進行附委審查"},{"start":317.788,"end":342.499,"text":"因為這個也是我害怕的事情就是說僑委會跟外交部永遠都是他們第一線要攻擊的對象是的所以就是說那因為你們又會我就像剛剛前面提到的不管是企業跟個人找到你們的機率都很高對所以僑委會這邊是有一定程度的資料庫那這個資料庫一旦沒有這一個資安的維護的時候這個會出事嘛那每一年因為資安的風險是逐年在低所以每一年"},{"start":345.792,"end":373.924,"text":"就是每一年你除了這一個每年的維護之外一定有針對新增的風險要有新的建制這個金額看起來很明顯就有一些新的建制我相信其實在國防外交委員會大家對這個事情不會有什麼意見因為預算沒有審大家現在來講就是說他們就挑了一些新的然後通過或者說希望行政院就只要因為我們整體的預算規模很小所以我們不好提這種小東西去這個不太可能會在他們提的那一方裡面"},{"start":374.865,"end":382.193,"text":"對你看我這個一比較之下才發現不少欸我剛才提到前面兩個喔其實會越來越嚴重了跟著嚴重的我說到社教的這個輔助這一個海外這個華語文學習生的計畫服務經費"},{"start":389.561,"end":415.123,"text":"還有這一個重點的新聞資訊因為我們一直在質詢的時候也一直強調比如說小委會這邊要怎麼闢謠要怎麼把最新資訊發布出去那這些東西如果沒有辦法用的話這個會馬上形成一個很嚴重的空窗現在確實有這個擔憂本來我都還鼓勵同仁說延後個一兩個月不至於影響太大我們就稍微期程上稍微做一些改變"},{"start":416.104,"end":440.182,"text":"但是現在已經快四月了因為我們都還有很多東西是要招標作業的如果預算沒有過我們根本沒辦法招標那沒辦法招標的話就是會嚴重delay所以有些業務如果拖到下半年搞不好會來不及執行所以今年的執行率就有可能會備受考驗我們去年總體預算執行率相當我自己個人不敢說百分百但是我們績效不錯我們執行到98點"},{"start":442.844,"end":468.499,"text":"9這樣的比例我相信這算是非常好因為我們珍惜我們所爭取到的每一塊預算所以我們做到98點多這樣的一個預算的規模那就算我們比照這個規模我們今年增加的那個新興預算也有很多是當然非常重要的內容那如果沒辦法執行的時候就確實會產生風險跟空窗期然後如果真的預算太晚才通過我們真的會來不及發包跟執行"},{"start":471.04,"end":496.013,"text":"這個會形成我們在今年執行預算的時候會有非常高度的風險那我也不忍苛責同仁因為確實是因為整個結構性因素所造成的所以我還是只能說期許我們立法院大院可以儘速赴委審查這個不正常而且跟委員報告我們可能會基線健保補助費因為去年開始以後我們都要給駐外人員編這個健保補助費是因為我們不能再停保了"},{"start":499.815,"end":519.259,"text":"所以額外增加出來的費用我現在也沒有錢付喔所以我現在先去拿原來的錢來付這些錢但是過了三四月以後我又漸漸就銀絲毛糧不夠了到了下半年我這個錢就付不出來了這個是把住外人員的健康等等之類是沒有放在心上對我覺得這個真的是問題而且這個僑委會的預算在我們整體的預算"},{"start":523.42,"end":531.518,"text":"我們今年本來應該給國務同仁增加加薪幾%的那個部分的錢已經期限三個月沒有付了"},{"start":532.383,"end":553.805,"text":"我在比較的時候就發現除了交委會之外這個在國防部會變得非常非常嚴重這個都是我們第一線的問題這是我們國防外交委員會特別重要的一件事所以在這邊也是請先撐著我們盡量在這一個朝野協商之下看能不能夠趕快讓這個預算能夠是 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我們請部長請農業部陳部長部長 我今天要跟你討論一下我們的國際藍展因為我們今年的國際藍展是我們農業部第一年就主導"},{"start":28.817,"end":47.879,"text":"然後這一次除了有國際藍展也有花卉科技展有一個不一樣的創新那我們去看完之後我想我們希望明年有更不一樣我們要每年每年的有亮點越來越進步對越來越進步那部長"},{"start":49.079,"end":73.627,"text":"我想請教一下就是說其實今年的由藍協主辦的藍花展示區其實去年它的預算是有五千萬的但是在今年好像三到變三千五百萬可是我知道這不是我們農業部的問題就是說我們所希望的我們的國際藍展是有一定的規模"},{"start":75.067,"end":98.807,"text":"絕對不能經費是往下降每年物價指數不斷在調結果我們往下降之後那個感覺不一樣了解所以我要拜託部長說我們雖然攔血有配合因為沒搞都要自己出來都要自己出來可是我覺得如果能夠堆疊上去也就是我們公部門的預算我們沒有"},{"start":99.968,"end":122.34,"text":"減退然後再加上攔斜的我相信我們的效果會是加倍的所以我這個部分要拜託我們的部長就是說在明年我們攔斜有我們攔斜也就是他們所主辦的蘭花展示區我們拜託這個預算一定要維持有5000萬過去的這樣的規模OK嗎"},{"start":125.261,"end":143.192,"text":"我先跟委員報告就是你剛才你講的去年五千萬是因為它還有亞太覽展那前年還有一個世界覽展它在不同的場區所以它經費有比較多那原來的經費像今年的三千五百萬事實上我已經把它提高了本來的預算編的好像只有三千萬還是兩千五百萬"},{"start":144.313,"end":159.622,"text":"兩千五百萬我還增加了一千萬上去不過我想我會我會朝著委員的建議就是在明年度的預算的部分我想我會至少會維持到三千五百萬以上用這樣的一個方式來處理那是我們目標其實"},{"start":161.443,"end":175.759,"text":"部長因為每年我都會去看雖然我們過去是國際藍展再加亞太藍展可是它的規模跟區塊性其實是一致性的比較一致性的只是因為是有兩個主題那我覺得"},{"start":179.662,"end":198.223,"text":"人民的感受是不一樣的而且甚至主辦單位攔血他主辦起來也不一樣因為說真的我們時間越來越長今年的時間是拉長的比去年是拉長的光拉長的時間所增加的開銷跟他的營運他是不一樣的"},{"start":198.803,"end":220.244,"text":"而且他必須協助周邊的而且我當天其實有跟我們主任也去看過就是說有一些我們可以做得更好的地方我們在今年其實應該要有些經費預算再去增加這個是我們自己公布門的就不是在活動"},{"start":221.985,"end":234.309,"text":"的一個處理就是說我們的硬體設施該怎麼加強其實很可惜的是我們的蘭花佈置得很漂亮可是它會有一個漢格就靠看到看到那個鐵柱 鐵片"},{"start":238.53,"end":264.975,"text":"哇 那個感覺又不一樣了因為部長你有去看嘛 你看如果像我們那個有那個立體3D鏡面的一進去那個感覺都不一樣因為它是一個封閉的上面看不到我們的鋼鐵板那如果沒有看到鐵板的話那個一致性的視覺不同那我們現在就差在這一塊所以那天我跟主任說其實我們是不是應該思考"},{"start":265.939,"end":293.342,"text":"在我們這個替片的部分我們要怎麼去加強或是把它弄成一個黑色的這是一勞永逸的因為我們未來花卉產業園區我們是要人一直不斷的進來不是放在那裡說一年辦一年那是有夠可惜的所以這個部分再拜託部長然後我們的花卉科技展謝謝今年有亮點"},{"start":294.483,"end":308.109,"text":"多了花卉科技展可是我們要怎麼讓這個耳目一新可以繼續讓他有人潮讓他感覺他是一個亮點這個要怎麼辦"},{"start":309.748,"end":336.617,"text":"我跟委員報告就是農業科技展當初我們投入的經費就是要讓它變成一個永續的而不是短時間的一個煙火式的部分所以後續我想我已經請我們的代主任做一個完整的規劃那我都期待每個月都有展這個展不見得純粹是農業部門的科技還有結合業者的這些展覽因為業者每一年都每個月甚至於都有一些小展大展"},{"start":337.077,"end":359.616,"text":"都能夠利用在一個場地來處理這個部分好像我們會很會規劃嘛 這就是我下面要跟部長討論的啦要購電版電也要經費嘛就我們周邊的設備一定要先讓它起來所以我要跟部長建議就是說我們附近有一個非常漂亮的公園"},{"start":361.454,"end":381.81,"text":"如果我們可以讓它加強包括我們的綠地我們希望這邊是一個野餐野餐區但是現在有很多親子野餐好 我們主題把它定蘭花瘦公園我們蘭花瘦這一次很夯耶IP很夯耶 對不對蘭花瘦公園所以這個部分其實我們可以來做規劃"},{"start":390.202,"end":404.024,"text":"你看到我這一張照片,這是那個吹氣的乾氣的,淋氣的,這隻若是變成石頭,然後可以一直存在在這裡"},{"start":405.563,"end":419.667,"text":"它是不一樣的所以我要拜託部長的時候就是說這個可以先優先規劃我們蘭花瘦的主體公園然後我們有一個野餐休閒區我們的綠地都做好了"},{"start":422.708,"end":450.391,"text":"大家可以在這裡用野餐店可以享受我們不一樣的氣氛而且後面這裡空氣很好第二就是我們像部長剛剛所講的我們要固定你偶爾然後那種盤花式的我告訴你沒有用我們要固定每個月我們就固定一天第四個禮拜我們固定來辦一個花卉市集"},{"start":452.821,"end":458.797,"text":"也就是說結合現場的我們蘭花業者還有我們花卉的量能"},{"start":459.778,"end":481.607,"text":"也就是我們花卉產業園區我們有一些其他地方的一些花卉特殊的花卉我們就固定每個月的四個禮拜我要變成指標啦但是大家都知道我每個月的第四個禮拜我來花卉產業園區我就可以參加花卉市集"},{"start":482.421,"end":497.249,"text":"一定要固定 固定我們行銷 行工格 人在幫我們工格這個是在行銷的策略當中非常重要的然後 你就可以逼著台糖後面五分之一"},{"start":501.065,"end":513.736,"text":"你要建設起來你要做串聯我們當這個地方上來之後如果你是落後的那請問我們要怎麼做串聯我們就可以逼著他"},{"start":514.997,"end":531.999,"text":"逼著台塘在他的後壁五分車車站你要建設起來因為他這邊很多倉庫可是因為沒有人如果我們這邊人潮起來那邊我們就逼著他這樣串聯又有交通又有脈絡"},{"start":533.612,"end":556.915,"text":"我相信光一天這兩個點他的人潮就上來了所以我是提這些建議我拜託我們的主任部長交代我們的主任要下去規劃這是我們當天其實跟業者還有我們主任我覺得這樣做是能夠幫到我們的花卉產業園區好部長拜託"},{"start":557.475,"end":579.555,"text":"我想委員提了非常好的一個想法那我絕對一定會去支持去做一個規劃甚至於那個Oki Show我都覺得把它變成背包的吊飾會更好這個後續有很多想法我們再來討論所以當你這個蘭花Show主題公園出來之後很多的所謂附加的一個產值就上來了好不好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167575","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167575","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053fb2832c8629d725018cbbd4f69c426c0854b2f19bd25f700f8f891d2cf65ac865ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"09:59:09 - 10:11:01","影片長度":"00:11:52","會議時間":"2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部、原住民族委員會、內政部、教育部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部及國家衛生研究院，就「如何精進偏鄉醫療與長照資源落差及落實《原住民族健康法》之困境，並對提升原住民族健康權益及強化原鄉照護量能（含提升機關位階與人力配置）」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月18日及3月19日，二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-03-18","start_time":"2026-03-18T09:59:09+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-18T10:11:01+08:00","duration":712,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-2"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.4734687500000003,"end":4.7897187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.97534375,"end":5.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.852218750000002,"end":9.869093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.869093750000001,"end":35.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.721593750000004,"end":43.315343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.80471875,"end":56.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.64659375,"end":74.16284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.32721875,"end":81.31784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.58409375000001,"end":78.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.80346875000001,"end":101.98971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.63846875,"end":82.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.53409375000001,"end":102.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.12471875,"end":105.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.73596875000001,"end":116.53596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.90846875000001,"end":108.92534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.94221875000001,"end":108.95909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.97596875,"end":109.53284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.63721875,"end":118.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.18971875000001,"end":171.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.42346875,"end":134.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.39784375000002,"end":136.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.41346875000002,"end":146.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.88096875000002,"end":150.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.48846875,"end":150.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.58971875,"end":150.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.55534375000002,"end":155.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.88846875000002,"end":156.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.63034375,"end":161.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.83971875,"end":171.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.48096875000002,"end":242.62596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.45284375000003,"end":260.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.02409375,"end":334.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.10596875000005,"end":276.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.85659375,"end":279.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.73284375000003,"end":288.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.35284375000003,"end":289.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.07659375000003,"end":302.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.54346875000005,"end":311.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.50659375000004,"end":331.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.37971875,"end":333.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.67909375000005,"end":380.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.92721875,"end":340.16346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.52846875,"end":395.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.86784375,"end":408.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.41846875000005,"end":429.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.31409375000004,"end":431.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.91284375000004,"end":432.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.88721875000005,"end":434.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.73096875000005,"end":435.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.21596875,"end":446.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.98221875,"end":467.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.63284375,"end":468.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.64971875000003,"end":533.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.20159375000003,"end":474.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.34471875,"end":476.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.56409375000004,"end":476.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.66909375000006,"end":479.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.63346875,"end":492.78096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.28721875,"end":496.15596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.16846875000005,"end":497.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.52909375,"end":511.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.2278437500001,"end":522.66659375},{"spea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呂次長有參加我們彰化縣長照這個社福大樓長照多功能的這個社福大樓的這個啟用那當然很多長輩對於我們的這個潛在基礎建設"},{"start":28.494,"end":51.136,"text":"補助的這個長照大樓社福大樓都非常的滿意那唯一不滿意的就是說它的空間還是有限那可以容納的這個民眾還是有限想要進去的這個民眾他們這個後面就是還要在後面排隊所以這個不論是在我們的這個多功能的這個大樓裡面或者是在社區"},{"start":53.338,"end":73.835,"text":"這個關懷據點或者是長昭溪據點都有這樣的一個問題就是很多長輩他想要到這個社區就近的這個關懷據點或長昭據點那因為礙於空間的關係所以也都要排隊所以我不知道說未來那個部長針對這一部分可以怎麼樣再去做一些改善"},{"start":76.479,"end":101.104,"text":"所以委員是說那個空間不夠是不是就是還有很多長輩想要進去嗎對啊而且現在的社區社區的那個社區自己經營的關懷據點也好或者是長照西據點那空間真的都非常的小有的就是就近有一些公共的這個場域那這個場域可能只能容納二三十個人"},{"start":102.344,"end":119.719,"text":"也許這個社區還有很多長輩他想要進來可是礙於空間的關係就是沒辦法所以我覺得說未來是不是有可能每個社區可以再多增加一個點不知道可不可以朝這個方向去努力就是我們再來"},{"start":121.059,"end":142.55,"text":"這個了解一下如果是這個需求上還不夠這個容量還不夠的話那也許我們也可以來研究看看現在有一些閒置的公共空間看如何來這個轉型讓這個長輩呢他希望的活動的空間能夠有我覺得這個委員的建議我們來調查一下"},{"start":145.431,"end":171.328,"text":"因為我們一開始是以一鄉鎮一個長照開始做設計然後開始再進步到說以一個學區所以我們也是一步一步在一直在長資源那如果現在到每一個學區都有了但是這個空間不夠太小那要多設一個我們來研究看看調查一下看哪些地方有這樣的需求"},{"start":172.908,"end":198.914,"text":"謝謝謝謝部長接下來我想請教就是在2024年監委那個王又嶺監委有針對衛福部的這個長照2.0有做一些調查報告那當時有特別提到就是說我們的這個縣市的住宿市機構還有失智的這個照護資源供應供給不足那接下來就是說我們也看到這個長照的服務的目標"},{"start":199.734,"end":223.635,"text":"群體推估參數未符實況那我們看到就是說在長照2.0可能我們比較著重在輕度跟中度的這個族群那反而是重度的這個族群長輩可能這個資源比較不夠那我們也期待就是說2026年的這個長照3.0針對這個重度的這些群組是不是可以再加強"},{"start":224.816,"end":242.389,"text":"給更多的一個資源而且我覺得說這些重度的這個民眾這個家庭更需要政府的資源因為有一些他可能也許需要我們的這個這個造福的這個資源可是他可能"},{"start":243.51,"end":260.365,"text":"有一些這個資源不是可以這麼到位所以我希望就是說針對這個長照3.0已經開始那這些針對重度的這些長輩或者有需求的這些重度的民眾那是不是政府的資源能夠更加的投入"},{"start":261.506,"end":279.863,"text":"跟委員大概說明一下確實我們剛剛有提到我們現在長照使用對象裡面大概只有兩層是重度者所以對於這個重度的他的這個長照因為大概就兩個地方一個是住宿式機構那另外一個就是居家他只能大概是這兩個"},{"start":281.184,"end":304.576,"text":"重度這個住宿室的話我們現在看起來是這樣整體的量是夠但是有區域不平衡的問題像有些區域上的就比較難長出這個住宿室機構所以這個我們會繼續來努力另外也去這個我們可能接下來會朝向去提高這個住宿型機構的補助也減輕民眾的負擔也鼓勵有這樣的機構可以長出"},{"start":306.497,"end":334.447,"text":"那第二個就是去強化那個重度居家的長照服務希望看能不能夠優先讓這些長照重度的家庭能夠用到比較多的居家重度的通常跟醫療的需求也會有所以強化居家的醫療跟長照的結合這也是另外在長照3.0裡面特別需要去強化包含夜間跟假日期間的這些重度"},{"start":334.747,"end":357.273,"text":"好我希望就未來我們長壽3.0應該是針對重度的這個部分應該要再加強因為部長我想請教就是說我最近接到一個個案就是一個96歲的一個阿嬤那她原本身體狀況都非常的好頭腦也很清楚那個四肢也都很靈活那可能長輩其實96歲其實身體狀況急轉直下那她原本是獨居"},{"start":363.895,"end":381.883,"text":"家裡面的人原本他的小孩就是沒有住在一起這個長輩他自己生活自己都還OK那現在身體狀況可能有一些就是有一點點狀況那他的小孩想說要幫他申請這個這個長照幫他煮一個中餐"},{"start":383.444,"end":407.662,"text":"那我們的照管人員是不是會去家裡面去評估通常是這樣子嘛對不對就是會去家裡面去做評估那評估是不會過但是沒過啦評估之後是沒有過因為這個照管人員說這個阿嬤頭腦清楚 四肢靈活她自己還可以煮飯那所以這個有一個狀況"},{"start":409.451,"end":430.511,"text":"後來他們就說可是這個阿嬤身體狀況是一天一天就是不是那麼好所以他們還是希望能夠請到這個幫他這個我們的服務然後幫他煮個中餐這樣子那就有人就教他就是說如果照管人員來這個跟你做訪問的時候要記一下啦"},{"start":436.301,"end":447.188,"text":"如果他原本可能四肢很靈活可以走路的他問A你就答B所以我會覺得說有必要這樣子嗎就是說如果這個阿嬤96歲那身體狀況確實就是不如以前那有必要叫阿嬤就說你記一下這個照管人員來訪問的時候你就假裝一下"},{"start":464.039,"end":492.659,"text":"部長針對這個個案你會如果是你的話你會怎麼處理這個跟委員在確認您說的這個是一個那個獨居的長者是不是他的小孩沒有跟他住一起沒有住一起嘛所以這個現在是符合我們那個獨老我們現在有兩塊一個是這個長照針對主要是失能者的照顧另外在那個長者的社區服務的部分我們現在有一個獨老計畫在推動也就是今年開始"},{"start":493.839,"end":522.795,"text":"會做這個會有送餐的服務所以他是如果他不到私能沒有落入到長照服務對象那但是他又獨居小孩沒有住一起這個就落入我們的獨老定義那過去我們的獨老服務是先針對中低收入戶而已就是比較弱勢的但是今年開始因為我們有特別預算預注了62億所以我們會專門發展這個所有的65歲以上的獨老者我們都希望"},{"start":522.915,"end":544.136,"text":"纳入到我们的这个服务范围那优先会从75岁以上开始所以刚刚这90几岁的阿嬷这个应该很快就会得到我们的照顾好我希望是如此不需要去假装不用假装不用假装说他身体可能有非常严重或者是他答不出来我觉得有时候"},{"start":544.736,"end":563.189,"text":"可能有這個需求那如果都已經九十幾歲了其實我覺得確實可以應該可以得到我們政府一個比較好的一個照顧所以部長我把這個最基層的這個問題跟你講就是說在基層會碰到這樣的一個狀況也讓你知道因為我們現在優先是針對75歲以上的長者先去關懷房事"},{"start":571.454,"end":585.507,"text":"然後關懷訪視之後就會去做評估看看他的需求是什麼然後再去連接後續看看是送餐服務啦還是關懷啦還是需要緊急救援裝置啦對這些獨居的講者這是我們的重點"},{"start":586.468,"end":610.286,"text":"那接下來我想請教就是說部長你知道賴總統在上個月有特色一位也是阿嬤了就是幾歲那她也照顧她的小孩五十幾年所以我們就可以看到長照這個部分針對重度的家庭確實需要政府更多的資源來協助"},{"start":613.068,"end":637.756,"text":"避免會有這樣的一個長照杯葛啦所以我想請教部長針對這部分那未來你們怎麼再去做一個篩檢剛剛有特別提到重度的這個家庭他可能進到這個長照可能就只有兩成左右那其他的部分你們要怎麼再去做一個篩檢就是說這些主動篩檢那高負荷的這個家庭是不是要優先趕快來協助對"},{"start":641.077,"end":666.705,"text":"這個個案真的是很遺憾那所以我們也檢討強化了我們在這個社安網裡面的初篩就是這些社安網裡面的服務人員網絡人員我們去強化他們的這個教育訓練去能夠極少的去辨識這個高負荷高風險的這些家庭照顧者然後導入資源因為我們現在在長照3.0裡面也是要在更多元的"},{"start":667.305,"end":693.353,"text":"這個家庭照顧者的支持方案包含這個據點還有這個服務的內容包含喘息或專業服務的教導等等這一些那麼特別是那個喘息服務導入進去我想會朝這幾個方向來做最重要就是我們會從那個初篩裡面去強化能夠早一點察覺到這一些個案我希望就是說主動篩檢"},{"start":695.214,"end":703.223,"text":"不是市衛福部或地方政府大家就是主動篩檢那找出這個高負荷的這個家庭因為確實如果長期這樣照顧確實真的壓力還蠻大的而且經濟應該我覺得都會出問題對啊好麻煩謝謝好謝謝黃委員謝謝黃學光委員"}]}},{"id":"167562","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167562","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053f5766b222ebf55a952e56fd78df8e650854b2f19bd25f7007fc8a76f1bb69cd85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林岱樺","委員發言時間":"09:46:36 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一個數字也許你已經掌握已經很清楚了在美國的當沖才佔了15%到20%日本佔30%到40%我們佔了47%"},{"start":173.266,"end":196.466,"text":"所以你認為這47%對台灣的這個證券市場跟企業的長久的營運以及它的股價的穩定度是好的嗎那如果你認為好那我覺得等一下的質詢議題也都知道答案是什麼了也都很知道你的立場在明年對於當沖延期的這樣的一個截止日我們也很清楚你的立場"},{"start":196.946,"end":222.374,"text":"就不會了嘛就很好啊所以也就會繼續延了那我想一片市場都知道這個穩定性那如果你認為這個不太正常喔其實整個證券市場還是在支持企業嘛還是支持企業的穩定的發展他在一個大眾不定的人當中去集資嘛大家對這個公司有沒有信心嘛我們會去投資他嘛"},{"start":222.874,"end":240.509,"text":"這樣才是對的啊我們股票上基本上還是建立於企業的資產業的支持啊那如果你認為一日當沖這個還是呢台灣的證券市場的較量還是得顧之因為我如果把當沖啊稍微降低的時候呢不鼓勵長期投資我的這個經濟市場我的證券市場"},{"start":242.811,"end":271.539,"text":"馬上萎縮 那這樣很慘所以基於並不是把支持企業的永續發展這樣的為主軸而先穩定我們的證券市場這也沒有錯喔 我也不認為是雖然這跟我們為什麼要有證券市場的原意可能不太一樣但是為了維持國內的這個證券市場那得必須做這個次要的一個決定我覺得也沒問題但是你的立場就很清楚 你不可以模糊像剛才你講的那個就是模糊了"},{"start":272.139,"end":287.923,"text":"好那你那回現在在台灣的當沖比例啊到底年齡大概落在什麼時候是在哪個年齡層我們有那個數據還是我們請證券交易所林董事長來回答我們有這個統計我想這個統計應該有請證券交易所林董事長謝謝主席委員好"},{"start":299.751,"end":310.928,"text":"我們現在進入到當中市場的年齡大概都落在哪一個年齡層我們統計不一定都是年輕的為主"},{"start":315.253,"end":338.403,"text":"我了解的是40到60只是我不知道這個證券親自出自你之口你們的統計是不是在這個年齡層也就是他是壯年喔如果我們設定45歲以下叫做青年的話那45歲以上就壯年嘛所以他是表示這個年紀他是存了一些積蓄然後呢他想要再累積財富嘛所以你們是40到60的中壯年嗎"},{"start":341.582,"end":359.69,"text":"基本上來講的話我們了解的是對 工創也是主力那在這個當沖市場的賺賠的狀況是怎麼樣是賺的人多還是賠的人少從人數或者從金額賺的這個總量是多還是賠的總量是少回答一下"},{"start":364.896,"end":387.097,"text":"這各自多少比例啦 大概講個比例 大概比例就可以了報告委員 當沖基本上來講的話他不只是個人 事實上還有一些華人華人專門在做當沖沒關係 你只要告訴我賺賠的比例就好了賺賠的比例就是從事當沖賺的人比較多 譬如說賺的我們是會後再提供給你一個"},{"start":388.058,"end":402.188,"text":"好 OK如果按照本席所了解的人數來講可能是賺的53%的人是賺47%的人是賠但是獲利者呢大概獲利的虧損的金額卻是比較大的好如果他這個賠的金額還是比較高的話好那這個董事長您先請回那個主委"},{"start":418.735,"end":432.701,"text":"那我們來看當中的這個降稅的雙面刃活絡市場我們當中稅率降到百分之零點五後呢零點一五後大幅降低的交易門檻吸引著大量的族群與高頻交易者進入確實讓台股在國際動盪上維持成交量缺點呢就是鼓勵投機嘛"},{"start":438.383,"end":458.062,"text":"當中的比例過高達47%的這個證券的市佔率導致怎麼樣這個賺快錢啊太誘人了本席為什麼會提出這個呢除了明年即將到期之外那我周邊就已經賺快錢賺到連年輕人大學生都投入了"},{"start":458.582,"end":481.828,"text":"我認識這個大學生他就好啊這個他自以為他是少年股神啊所以大王當中結果一波的跌停教訓他產賠了40萬現在呢只能邊延避延後畢業邊打工所以他的誘人啊誘人到這個年輕的人都投入了那這就警訊了不是40到60歲而已喔所以你長期持股者支撐台灣的產值的投資人要繳3%的稅"},{"start":483.968,"end":496.881,"text":"但是我短線進出的當中課 我只要繳0.15%這表示現在政府是 金管會是什麼態度 鼓勵投資懲罰 鼓勵投機 懲罰投資啊好 我看美國國際稅制 證交稅 我就以台灣 美國 日本"},{"start":503.187,"end":514.293,"text":"證交稅 台灣對當中是收這個15%的證交稅對一般15個交0.3%的稅那美國是免徵證交稅 日本免徵證交稅然後我們台灣的證件交易所得稅是停徵的美國是合併他的所得可以到10%到37%日本就是一個定率20.3%當中門檻 我們跟日本沒有門檻美國有規定 你的帳戶不管怎麼樣你都要有"},{"start":531.684,"end":548.163,"text":"這個兩萬五千的美元大概合台幣七十五萬好 當中的股市當中的佔比我們是達到百分之四十七美國百分之十五到二十日本是百分之三十到四十好 我們就以美國股利長期投資做法長期持股者是降稅的"},{"start":549.204,"end":568.712,"text":"短期投資者課稅這才是重點長期投資者降稅短期投資者課重稅我就以美國證券交易所得稅的精神我講精神喔那他對於他定義了什麼叫長期持股一年以上叫長期持股只要長期持股的呢我課的就是低稅率對一般投資人15%高收入的20%甚至呢還在加增3.8%"},{"start":574.654,"end":587.409,"text":"那如果短期投資他也定義一年以下叫做短期投資那我就必須課這個高等的稅10%到37%所以對於美國來講平凡交易的投資人通常面臨較高的稅負"},{"start":589.611,"end":607.709,"text":"好那本席呢就是想跟這個金管會討論到底政府是支持投資呢還是投機呢政交稅減免至2027年明年就截止了到底還會不會再延呢租稅公平在哪裡長期持股者的稅率台灣的長期持股的稅率是當沖者的兩倍"},{"start":613.434,"end":632.277,"text":"當沖佔市場是百分之比重47這是否變相懲罰投資行為獎勵投機那長期投資人如果你認定長期投資人是應該被鼓勵的你是不是應該要評估要對等的稅制的調整呢好那個主委您要直接直球對決回答這個問題了2027年當沖稅制的延期到期了這個延期的這個這個優惠會被取消"},{"start":642.259,"end":657.726,"text":"你們有沒有評估過台股成交量將會怎麼影響有沒有做過政策退場的機制的評估如果你沒有退場那表示說是不是2027年我們又要再次面臨同樣的政治壓力再演一次呢 主委請回答"},{"start":659.782,"end":681.775,"text":"先跟委員報告一下兩件事一個就是說這個稅的部分不會請簡短回答沒有回答夠的用書面好不好咨詢事件已經過了我想這個是因為稅是財政部主政我們的立場我們會充分表達給他我們再提書面給委員好所以有沒有你支持延期還是不支持延期"},{"start":682.421,"end":690.985,"text":"就是說因為這是財政部主政我們要跟他討論那本席建議啟動證券稅制結構改革那懲罰針對現行懲罰長線投資補貼短期投資的證券市場的失衡稅制結構進行深度的檢視"},{"start":702.409,"end":725.115,"text":"以現在的市場的流動性高度依賴15%的證交稅優惠匯率我本席認為應該是不鼓勵投資行為為出發有穩定市場切入有三個訴求同步進行 我講的是同步這也請你納入你的評估告告第一個 證券交易所得稅維持零第二個 長期投資者證交稅延逸調降"},{"start":726.855,"end":740.671,"text":"第三當沖正交稅研議滾動式的調整在2027年正交稅落日倒數的壓力評估建立分級落日制讓市場緩步的適應軟著陸而非恐慌性的退場也請你參考國際主要的市場的機制導正市場的體制朝向"},{"start":748.559,"end":766.429,"text":"支撐台灣產業發展的股市方向來轉型以健全這個我們的資本市場的秩序我也希望你這一個月內能夠提出評估報告那你要給財政部那這個評估報告同步也給本委員會可以嗎一個月那個委內建議非常具體我們會來處理好謝謝謝謝再來請姑姑"}]}},{"id":"167561","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167561","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60538cdacfe47c2f19ffb086282839459da0f13775304d9d746ae13e1033bacb09e35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林沛祥","委員發言時間":"09:42:59 - 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謝謝主席 有請鄭部長好 有請鄭部長委員好鄭部長早安"},{"start":21.072,"end":33.079,"text":"目前國人都很關心所謂的兄弟姊妹特留份制度那也是就是所謂的單身條款那本期也在今天的這個法務部的立法計畫第26條有看到這個案子"},{"start":36.981,"end":56.391,"text":"包括我在內有許多委員也已經針對兄弟姊妹特留份提出修法的版本希望替國人改善這個制度這個緣由是因為去年底的時候台灣遺囑協會在公共政策網路參與平台上面有提出相關的提案有獲得多達772位民眾的支持跟複議"},{"start":60.433,"end":83.981,"text":"那我們也知道說法務部有自己委外的研究報告也已經指出現行制度確實有檢討修法的必要性而且有承諾在今年初來啟動修法程序所以我想這邊就請部長來回答第一點請問現在具體修法的進度到哪裡第二個版本出來了嗎法務部的版本出來了嗎"},{"start":85.624,"end":100.664,"text":"跟委員報告吼那的確是在委託研究案就是有關那個繼承篇的委託研究案在去年底已經已經已經完成了吼那這部分有一些的建立的意見吼那本部在今年也邀集了學者專家相關的機關團體有召開"},{"start":101.986,"end":116.295,"text":"研修小組就有關於這部分計程片的一個修正的這部分有第一次的研修的會的一個討論那我想這部分除了我們這個研修會還有把105年相關的草案的能夠把它再做一個做一個檢視"},{"start":117.436,"end":144.554,"text":"把這當作修法的一個重要參考那的確委員關心的特留份有關兄弟姊妹這部分的一個特留份的問題我想這是一個重點那當然因為各界的意見還是很多我們還要再做一個更精緻的一個討論那我想我們希望能夠在今年能夠提出跟立委提出我們會頭要送出法務部去年十月我在總職巡獸提出來部長也曾經上台"},{"start":147.216,"end":164.448,"text":"那其實應該檢討修正的是民法第1223條第4款然後讓國人能夠真正落實遺土的自由跟財產自主老師說有一位先輩常常在講這句話叫時空背景不同"},{"start":165.248,"end":194.788,"text":"那這句話我覺得對於這一個我們的修法是的確有必要性的畢竟來講50年前的中華民國跟現在的中華民國整個民情已經變得不一樣而當時不管是您本身還是卓院長都在院會裡面明確回應會與社會各界進行討論跟徵詢但是我也必須要這邊要提說其實社會上為什麼這麼多的共識因為這個事情可能已經慢慢你不能講慢慢而是已經很多人直接影響到他們自己"},{"start":195.508,"end":217.336,"text":"所謂的遺組自主跟其他方面的權益了所以說我今天社會討論的重點其實很簡單部長我們現在立法院已經有多位委員提出版本那承諾2026初當初你是講2026初啟動修法程序如果有任何至愛難行的地方部長可以直接提出來啊"},{"start":218.773,"end":238.425,"text":"好 謝謝 那我想我們現在就啟動修法程序因為這個我們已經開研修小組的會議這就是一個修法程序的一個啟動那的確這個時空的以及家庭形態以及現在的一個背景那我們參佐外國例外像那個現在很多的專家學者一直在提供就是日本那個"},{"start":239.606,"end":261.988,"text":"貢獻份的這些的一個制度來取代特留份的這些就是你實際上有付出了多少才有辦法去做一個繼承那這個結合那個遺囑的一個自由的一個制度那我想這部分我們速度我們現在繳成是現在是有一直在加快那我們希望就像委員講的我們一定要廣大社會意見然後達到一個一個平衡"},{"start":262.248,"end":277.845,"text":"我也必須在這邊請教部長我希望今天是個理性的討論因為這個事情還蠻重要的那什麼時候保護部一機提出版本時間很重要我們不能一天到晚攜帶立法院全年無休都一天到晚等大家的法案但什麼時候提出版本"},{"start":279.44,"end":297.535,"text":"我會講說儘快因為我們現在是當然是因為繼承篇那個是修的弧度蠻大的如果說我們再擠的話我們是可以把那個特留份跟遺囑自有這部分有沒有機會在這個會期會期我們都努力好不好那個因為我們還要再送行政院來審查那我們會"},{"start":299.545,"end":316.601,"text":"還要再預告,還要再會選,所以我一旦失誠,我們是盡快去,那我想隨時我們會跟委員聯絡,因為我知道委員很關心這個問題,那我們會再跟委員來做一個聯繫。好,那我期待如果法務部的國會聯絡署能夠跟我辦公室盡快獲得聯絡。"},{"start":319.443,"end":344.79,"text":"剛好我剛看今天出席的人出席的各位官員裡面剛好我們政務次長是黃某興黃次長嘛謝謝黃次長其實我比較好奇的是另外一位政務次長黃士傑黃次長那聽說黃士傑黃次長最近已經被清點去參選桃園市市長那昨天聽說他就已經去開始公開跑行程在上班時間請問這件事部長您知道嗎"},{"start":346.426,"end":371.744,"text":"這部分我因為這個是要選市場這是一個報紙有這樣的一個報導有這樣的一個報導我先問一個第一關鍵問題是他有請假嗎公務時間出去跑行程他有請假嗎我想他有公務行程他就會出去沒有沒有這是公務行程如果說你去幫桃園的農產品這邊去去參加桃園農產品的行程我有一點不能了解法務部跟桃園的農產品有什麼直接的關聯"},{"start":372.685,"end":383.636,"text":"那我想請問說他如果是這樣去跑地方的行程請問部長還有請假嗎這部分我想該請假就會請假那這部分我再來瞭解"},{"start":384.025,"end":407.174,"text":"那第二件事如果說他是這樣子的去針對他未來的仕途去做更進一步的發展那請問說以說專業性的考量來講或各方面功能性的考量來講部長他是不是需要先辭職然後才專心的跑行程才對得起我們整個法務部的系統呢"},{"start":408.445,"end":428.064,"text":"這部分我們防政務次長他這個有沒有去要參選的這個問題我這部分我還這是媒體的一個報導那我想如果說真的有去決定要去選我想他有他的一個做法因為到目前這都是媒體的一個報導"},{"start":429.465,"end":452.158,"text":"我們只是期待說我們都知道法務部都是目前都是很辛苦的因為有很多案子尤其現在這幾年來我們中華民國整個社會上的價值觀整個社會上的觀感其實都一直在變變的時候其實很尷尬就法務部這邊一方面又要讓大家安心一方面又要想辦法說讓這個公務體系能夠正常那這時候每一位"},{"start":452.918,"end":465.791,"text":"官員首長的職權都很重要那如果剛好有人有外務然後來去干擾他們本身法務部的好好運行尤其又是到長字輩那我會認為說部長您應該好好考慮說這一個狀況到底這樣適不適合"},{"start":468.773,"end":496.152,"text":"再來我們時間有限 我想繼續詢問有關這方面打炸的事情因為老實講我們聽到國家隊我們都很興奮只有聽到打炸國家隊我們有點頭痛因為老實說打炸其實我們都知道國安危機至少兩大國安危機經濟危機跟少子化危機但是老實講對民眾感觸最深惡痛絕的就是打炸"},{"start":498.633,"end":519.187,"text":"去年1月開始實施打詐綱領2.0版本以及打詐新釋法那我想說目的應該是讓民眾有感所以說我想請問部長從去年1月打詐綱領2.0版本上路之後到現在為止台灣民眾遭受詐騙的財損總金額是多少能不能給我一個大約的數字"},{"start":520.697,"end":531.677,"text":"那第二個也是說台灣民眾在從去年1月打詐綱領2.0版本上路之後台灣民眾遭詐騙的受理案件總數是多少能不能給我一個數字"},{"start":535.91,"end":561.97,"text":"財損總金額在這部分我這邊是有查過的步伐的一個立得的一個資料那當然因為打造儀表板都有就公佈數據這個是內政部主管的那但是我可以看出我們那個財損的金額事實上整個一個建樹也下降財損金額一年從今年二月往回說這一年內跟去年二月比較我們是財損現在是下降23%"},{"start":563.391,"end":581.609,"text":"對不起我要問的是數字不是下降多少數字數字的話我有單列有那今年1月是財損的金額是70億從去年到今年1月我是說這一整年我們財損的數字是多少"},{"start":582.349,"end":590.314,"text":"我這邊我再提供給委員們但是這是有下降的趨勢我跟部長報告一下去年1月是95億 今年1月是70億部長 我這邊得到的資料是914億的財損總金額從去年1月到今年1月 財損總計的914億相當於什麼 相當於我們全國5000大企業中前面的80家到100家"},{"start":609.807,"end":622.554,"text":"如果以零售業來講相當於整年的星光三越跟家樂福的零售總額部長您覺得這個數字是高還是低啊當然這個數字還是高但是有下降的反轉的趨勢有反轉的趨勢受理案件的總數"},{"start":625.915,"end":638.385,"text":"我們這邊目前辦公室查到是185215這是受理的案件總數沒有受理的可能還不止這個數字所以說這就是回到為什麼我剛剛說民眾覺得打詐"},{"start":641.227,"end":658.798,"text":"其實有點像是國安危機因為深惡痛絕感同身受政府一說政策有效但是人民真的有感嗎打炸綱領2.0版本就是希望讓民眾有感但是這個數字跟這感覺出來的時候部長這有點心酸啊"},{"start":660.005,"end":677.7,"text":"各位的確打詐我們在一直不遺餘力我想我們整個辦案團隊以及政府其他的一個機關我們都是有跨域的一個整合一個公司的協力其實在去年的話已經從高峰已經下來了到112年22萬件我時間已經快沒了不過我想請問部長這一件事我覺得這件事講出來民眾一定很有感那就是說"},{"start":684.813,"end":695.827,"text":"在打仗剛剛領2.0版本上路之後到目前為止民眾被詐騙的金額裡面實質成功追回來的金額比例是多少"},{"start":697.475,"end":720.736,"text":"追回來的金額比例不是追回來的金額 是追回來的金額比例假設說我被騙了一千塊我被追回來八十塊 七十塊那百分之七 百分之八好像不太對勁但是如果我被騙了一千塊但是被追回來八百五十塊那我就覺得說 這政府有感那請問金額比例是多少"},{"start":723.512,"end":739.148,"text":"因為這個是現在詐欺的詐騙就是屬於跨國型的有些就直接就傳出去了這個很難追回那我想當然這個比例我沒辦法去做一個明確的一個數據但是我們可以說追回來的一個總額我倒是可以提供給委員"},{"start":740.269,"end":758.337,"text":"因為這個是跨國型的一個詐騙而且只有洗錢就洗到境外了所以而且現在虛擬的一個貨幣的一個方式這就是為什麼人民對於當然我們在努力人民對於打詐很沒有信心的感覺因為如果說我們聽到的不是直接一個數字"},{"start":759.878,"end":765.545,"text":"而是一直說這個錢可能轉到國外去這個錢可能到別的地方去這個錢可能到那邊到那邊民眾會覺得是說我們的政府在推脫我們這個沒有推脫這個我們是很努力在去主持如果說推脫的話大家現在都在錄影"},{"start":777.921,"end":792.595,"text":"那我也是身為一個理性討論的情況我沒有說您推脫但是民眾的直接感覺很有可能會覺得說第一時間你跟我講的不是追回來的比例多少而是說這個錢會到哪裡去難免民眾會覺得說"},{"start":796.176,"end":813.021,"text":"現在時間其實已經到了那我也在這邊要請求部長甚至要求部長是否能夠在未來的打擊詐騙的政策裡面把提高追回金額比例當成政策目標可以這樣做嗎"},{"start":814.815,"end":838.12,"text":"提高追回金額品因為這個事情如果做得到打詐才人民有感啊跟委員報告其實打詐其實我們對要求就是在偵查審理中的時候因為被害人倒查嘛我們就會是要求那個被告一定要跟那個被害人做一個我家人昨天才被詐騙"},{"start":840.467,"end":860.167,"text":"所以說如果連國會而且我一直跟我家人講說什麼事都不要點我家人昨天才被詐騙差一點點差一點點最後面那個驗證碼不出去不然就完蛋了所以像這樣事情發生在你我身邊那我如果說已經發生了麻煩一下打詐要有感"},{"start":861.087,"end":880.438,"text":"把錢追回來讓民眾覺得說至少有政府好安心這句話是不是真的這部分跟委員好不好我們再努力啦好那剛才我再補充一下剛才委員關心就是我們房屋市檢政務次長有沒有請假問題那我們查的結果就上週都已經事前完成請假手續了就以上的一個補充好 謝謝委員好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167560","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167560","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60533cccf281942747bbd268b4a161496bd9f13775304d9d746a798c8af07a2370ec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"09:48:01 - 09:56:55","影片長度":"00:08:54","會議時間":"2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、 邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、 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請陳明珍主委"},{"start":17.847,"end":33.312,"text":"主委好 委員好前兩天教育部公佈說公費留學的項目新增了合工學門那就我了解之前這個留學項目並沒有合工學門對不對所以是今年"},{"start":34.412,"end":60.182,"text":"才在三年一次檢討項目輪次當中新增是因為河安會發現河能的人才面臨斷層所以要請教育部來申請新增嘛對不對是的好那我想請問現在河能人才面臨斷層的狀況如何為什麼會有這樣的一個需要因為這個前陣子的非休假孕政策之下"},{"start":61.274,"end":82.157,"text":"很多學生不願意選擇核能這個專業非常好第二呢大家也不願意出國學核能這個專業考慮到這個工作的問題我覺得這邊我很肯定我們的主委就說也確實是因為非核家園的政策"},{"start":83.058,"end":108.145,"text":"那導致今天很多學生覺得在台灣學習跟河工、河能有關的一些學門實際上發現未來可能前景不夠燦爛,前景黯淡所以也導致今天學習的動力下降那我當然肯定河安會願意面對人才問題開始有了措施不過這邊我也要提醒政府"},{"start":109.105,"end":129.374,"text":"就像剛剛主委講的其實為什麼造成這個人才斷層有一個很大的原因就是民進黨執政來的施行的非核政策非核家園的政策那麼他讓我們今天的核能專業就出現了一個明顯的斷層那讓我們曾經花了50年"},{"start":130.134,"end":147.188,"text":"培育的合工人才我看到你們的資料說也出現了老化的問題年齡偏高的問題那甚至未來5到10年還會出現退休潮也就是在這種合能人才可能產生所謂的斷層乃至於空缺的情況之下"},{"start":147.808,"end":167.763,"text":"那當然也就對我們的核能的安全在運轉上就出現一些影響所以今天核安會請教育部來去把所謂的新增核工學門來增加公費留學的項目這點我是給予肯定那但是我要請經濟部跟台電你們也上來一下主委留步 兩位也上來來"},{"start":178.078,"end":194.327,"text":"請教一下經濟部核定台電對核電廠的現狀評估報告指出核二廠核三廠具備再運轉的可能性並且同步啟動自主安全檢查以及延提再運轉計劃"},{"start":196.488,"end":218.864,"text":"是好那台電依法要提出兩個主要文件一個再運轉計畫跟執行報告那另外就是有老化評估管理耐震安全輻射議題等報告那這是自主安全檢查相關文件那合廠部分的話台電要配合乾除的作業期程進行自主安全檢查嘛"},{"start":219.304,"end":244.421,"text":"那現階段河安會要辦理繼續運轉審查掀起準備工作也要邀集台電就河電廠再運轉來進行討論那政府說台電3月底把河山再運轉計畫送到河安會來盡快完成自主安全檢查那我想請教請問河山重啟現在進度如何"},{"start":246.294,"end":270.622,"text":"第一個剛剛委員已經非常清楚的說明我在大會的報告裡面也有提到我們乾市儲存的一個進度那去年我問一下更精確的問那河安會評估審查時程大概需要多久請問主委河安會審查時程大概要多久已經送到河安會了嘛對不對還沒有沒有嗎還沒有還沒有送那什麼時候送過去"},{"start":279.586,"end":289.435,"text":"我們下禮拜大概就三月底之前大概就會送三月底前送嘛那三月底前送的話那請問河岸會預估的審查時程大概需要多久"},{"start":290.869,"end":311.141,"text":"他不只是政院的計畫以後還寫老化評估、地震等等的報告總不能遙遙無期嘛一年要看他的材料準備的狀況怎麼樣我沒有說你審查一定要過啦我說你審查期程大概需要多久一年?兩年?"},{"start":313.132,"end":333.746,"text":"三年 這個要看他的報告的相近程度 越相近我們審查時間會越短好 那我就要問 你曾經說這個河岸會台電如果做得夠確實 快速回覆意見那就現場視察順利進行 其倍的話有可能在2028年重啟"},{"start":335.747,"end":356.418,"text":"所以2028這個數字,照你現在連一個期程怎麼做你都沒有明確的把握,2028這個數字有可能嗎?是有可能,2028有可能。那2028有可能今年是幾年了?2026年了。對。那請問你光審查你要多久時間?你要趕在2028重啟就會審查多久時間要有結果出來?"},{"start":359.633,"end":385.755,"text":"當然要看台電是不是不是這個是邏輯問題時序邏輯問題嘛你設定2028你今天要能夠重啟的話那你光審查時程請問審查過了以後馬上就可以重啟嗎是不是我們審查過後會給他那個運轉的執照他可以裝填燃料那我就問運轉執照給了以後請問經濟部請問台電要多久才能夠重啟大概幾星期"},{"start":387.881,"end":407.608,"text":"我想我這邊跟委員澄清一下三月底送的再運轉計畫我有一個比擬好了他等於是一個白米選手他已經離開運動場我知道啦我知道啦我要把他回到白米的起跑點我台電要做什麼我現在提給他的報告大概就這樣大概有三大部分我跟你講那你就不要講2028這個數字給我聽"},{"start":409.841,"end":432.775,"text":"不是嗎你知道現在你的百米起跑你跟我講還沒開始跑然後你中間到底會遇到什麼樣的風阻遇到什麼樣的選手遇到什麼樣的場地你通通不知道你就是2028年是這個意思嗎我今天問的時序邏輯你聽不聽得清楚啊我只問說今天審查到什麼時候你今天審查完成之後你需要多少作業時間"},{"start":434.842,"end":456.217,"text":"這你總要給我一個數字吧目前來我跟你們報告因為後面還有一個所謂的安全的自主的安全的檢查你還是打不出來所以這部分其實上目前都還在進行中那到底審查的結果可能有些設備我必須要去做一個更換講審查講不出時間審查完多少設備設備的狀況設備的狀況必須要經過檢測檢查聽聽聽我跟你講我講很簡單的事情"},{"start":464.878,"end":489.719,"text":"你們不要講一個2028給大家期待嘛今天就很明顯拆穿了嘛2028根本就是空話嘛不是嗎你光審查期限多久我舉個例子到現在就是這兩年嘛我審查期限一年那你有沒有辦法一年之內讓那個核電廠重啟那就是個數學問題啊那如果審查期限是要一年半那你半年有沒有辦法包委員這是安全的問題"},{"start":490.699,"end":506.75,"text":"當然啦 我要問你嘛 那你就不要講2028嘛所以今天直接公然打領2028嘛 你根本就沒有 心裡沒有個底2028只是隨便說說而已嘛 就這個結論啦 很簡單啦最後啊 我還是要特別強調啦 亡羊補牢為時未完"},{"start":512.112,"end":529.128,"text":"講了十年你今天民進黨非核加人政策就是錯誤用什麼核廢作為理由那現在很簡單那請問核廢解決了沒奇怪了現在就能解決了那奇怪以前就不能解決說穿了不做的藉口千百個要做決心一個謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167565","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167565","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053594f9ad4803e316e18cbbd4f69c426c0854b2f19bd25f700f2397eb0f42835a15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱慧洳","委員發言時間":"09:42:08 - 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有的話也只是極端值 平均上絕對沒有我想如果講心境護士薪水五萬 我覺得完全是睜眼說瞎話這是第一點 基層護理人員的心聲那第二個呢 就是住院整合照護計畫 當然我們要納入照服員但是請注意 我們在112年的時候 我們已經有密戶罪了"},{"start":53.7,"end":73.365,"text":"那如果沒有取得護理人員資格的人來執行護理業務就會有密護罪但是實際的臨床實務上造福源跟護理人員的業務範圍有一些模糊的空間那是誰創造這個模糊空間就是衛福部的函式衛福部的函式針對有些醫療輔助行為有些函式是"},{"start":74.686,"end":94.721,"text":"指出要護理人員依據醫師的指示執行但是有些韓式又說照服員可以做這裡有一個模糊空間那我也希望住院整合照護計畫在執行的時候在推動的時候也能夠考慮到照服員跟護理人員之間的職業界線不是單純人力的問題我覺得法規完備也需要去處理這樣子"},{"start":95.762,"end":103.613,"text":"好那現在呢第三點呢就是當然就回到我們的主題我們的主題今天我要有請那個衛福部部長"},{"start":108.008,"end":132.663,"text":"今天我想要針對部長來就教一個問題就是偏遠地區家庭專科護理師執行醫療輔助行為的釋法性那我想我們都知道偏遠地區其實醫師的人力非常的缺乏所以為了照顧當地的居民去尋找醫師的輔助人力就顯得非常的重要也有這個必要性好那我們也看到衛福部這幾年非常積極的在推動"},{"start":133.363,"end":151.695,"text":"家庭專科護理師制度那我想這個制度就是作為偏遠地區醫師輔助人力的一個來源那我想這個方向當然我們要反對但是有一些家庭專科護理師執行醫療輔助司法性問題值得探究那我想我這邊第一個問題就是"},{"start":155.05,"end":165.588,"text":"請問一下家庭專科護理師根據預歷醫療流程來執行醫療輔助行為請問這個釋法性為何就是有沒有違法的疑慮"},{"start":167.509,"end":193.144,"text":"我認為是沒有我們都有這個育立醫療流程的那個相關的規範的那個公告都有所以部長覺得家庭專科護理師依據育立醫療流程來執行醫療輔助行為沒有違法性的問題沒有問題好那我在想就是我們的中央主管機關的大家長就是衛福部然後就是部長您如果您都覺得這個問題沒有司法性的問題"},{"start":194.065,"end":208.118,"text":"那我覺得醫療機構有可能無所適從而跟著一起違法了而不自知那為什麼因為部長你根本不覺得一個有違法性的一個情境它充滿違法的一個模糊地帶它充滿違法的一個空間"},{"start":212.822,"end":235.635,"text":"我就現在一一的來跟部長說明為什麼家庭專科護理師依據預列醫療流程來執行醫療輔助行為其實是有違法的疑慮的那我們先從第一個階段開始說起我們專科護理師在執行醫療輔助行為要有法源那法源是什麼就是專科護理師你要執行醫療輔助行為的前提你要有醫師的指示"},{"start":236.155,"end":253.521,"text":"沒有醫師的指示你執行的醫療輔助行為你就會觸犯民醫罪法源依據在護理人員法24條那這邊就提到說醫療輔助行為應該在醫師的指示之下行之好那接著呢我們來看一下為什麼醫師要指示專科護理師去執行醫療輔助行為舉例傷口的換藥為什麼醫師要這麼做"},{"start":257.102,"end":272.128,"text":"情境是醫師他會評估病人的需求如果病人有傷口換藥的一個需要的話醫師就會指示專師去執行醫療輔助行為所以醫師他診察完病人之後他指示護理師"},{"start":272.908,"end":285.958,"text":"去做醫療輔助行為這段的法源是來自於醫師法第11條的本文那我們來讀一下本文醫師非親自檢查不得實行治療開給方際所以這段的法源依據在醫師法第11條那我們把這兩個階段合併起來組成一個專科護理師執行醫療輔助行為的三部曲第一部曲醫師會評估病人的需求病人有換藥的需求他"},{"start":297.627,"end":319.915,"text":"醫師就會進行第二部曲的動作醫師會指示專科護理師去執行醫療輔助行為專科護理師會進行第三部曲的動作就是在醫師的指示之下會去執行醫療輔助行為那這是一般通常的情形但是我們來講情境B情境B就是有些偏遠地區因為在山之巔海之邊完全沒有醫師的醫療資源"},{"start":321.155,"end":339.886,"text":"那如果專科護理師要去執行醫療輔助行為例如說傷口的換藥你要死守著我們剛講的專科護理師執行醫療輔助行為的三部曲的話你沒有醫師荷蘭醫師的親自診查荷蘭醫師的指示那專科護理師如何去執行醫療輔助行為所以這時候呢就給了一個解套的一個空間"},{"start":340.766,"end":356.05,"text":"解到的空間就是醫師法第11條的但書這邊提到說如果是偏遠地區那醫師沒辦法親自診察沒有關係那可以用通訊的方式去取代醫師的親自診察那親自診察之後醫師還是要下指示還是要下遺囑給專科護理師去執行醫療輔助行為這是"},{"start":359.031,"end":385.7,"text":"情境B那我們現在來看就是本席想請教部長的情境C請問一下專科護理師依據育立醫療流程執行醫療輔助行為在這個情境當中到底有沒有法源因為我們情境A講的法源就護理人員法24條醫師法第11條情境B講的法源就是護理人員法24條還有那個醫師法第11條的單書那請問一下情境C法源在哪裡"},{"start":387.381,"end":401.549,"text":"跟委員說明很佩服您對法規上的熟悉程度不過在護理人員即使不是專科護理師他在醫師的指示之下都可以執行醫療輔助行為"},{"start":403.766,"end":419.427,"text":"那麼過去的指示包含了預歷我們在過去臨床上就有這個叫做臨床路徑那麼臨床路徑的就是一種預歷醫療流程的概念所以就是按照"},{"start":419.947,"end":434.311,"text":"有一些的這個標準化的照顧模式下那麼醫師先下了這些這個預歷醫療流程或者是臨床入境由醫院所設計請問一下在那個地理的情境護理人員依照這樣的預歷醫療流程或臨床入境去執行並沒有違法治理但是你在打B你沒有掌握我的問題其實真的沒有掌握"},{"start":444.913,"end":457.308,"text":"我們來看一下蔡淑鳳師長她怎麼來介紹專科護理師的一個職業範圍她說根據醫院的預立醫療流程醫師不在場的時候專科護理師可以執行低危險的醫療行為這當中你根據預立醫療流程在這個病床"},{"start":461.012,"end":489.471,"text":"當下的這個情境其實醫師並沒有對病人去進行進行親自診察也沒有辦法指示專科護理師去執行所謂的預立醫療流程就是早在早在病人的情境發生之前你先把病人的一個情境先預立起來預立起來之後讓專科護理師根據預立醫療流程去執行但是你把這個流程拿到事發的當下去其實根本沒有醫師的診察來介入啊那沒有醫師的診察來介入那這樣不是違反醫師法第11條的規定嗎"},{"start":490.972,"end":505.595,"text":"那我們來看一下家庭專科護理師的日常家庭專科護理師的日常這邊提到說他們就是按照預立醫療流程來問診來做生品來執行超音波來執行心電圖這邊心電圖的執行超音波的執行這裡就充滿滿滿的醫療輔助行為的概念所以我還是要請問一下部長請問一下專科護理師依據預立醫療流程來執行醫療輔助行為到底有沒有法人"},{"start":518.438,"end":536.144,"text":"那你告訴我有法源是哪一條 你就告訴我有法源是哪一條醫療流程同樣的建築在緊急醫療救護法裡面的高級救護技術員緊急醫療救護法就是這個緊急醫療救護法是法律 立法院三次通過的法律但是護理人員所依據的醫療流程並沒有三次通過的法律真的不要硬拗了部長我告訴你這個問題全台灣沒有一個人比我更了解"},{"start":543.146,"end":565.243,"text":"因為我研究這個問題已經研究十幾年了我真的可以告訴你專科護理師的職業範圍我一路跟著他們走到現在這件事就是沒有法源你講的緊急醫療救護法有法源就是規範在緊急醫療救護法但是專科護理師根據預歷醫療流程來執行這些醫療輔助業務就是沒有法源不要睜眼說瞎話就是沒有法源我很重要哪裡你指出來啊"},{"start":568.144,"end":590.216,"text":"我都可以告訴你秦慶A的法源是一司法第十一條護理人員法二十四條秦慶B的法源是十一條的單書護理人員法二十四條你告訴我秦慶西的法源在哪裡你告訴我啊你講不出來你現在就當著全國人民的面前告訴我們秦慶西的法源在哪裡就沒有為什麼我會這麼激動因為就沒有我研究了十幾年就沒有"},{"start":591.717,"end":616.6,"text":"這個沒有真的就沒有請你告訴我法源在哪裡中華民國的法典六法全書打開請問是哪一條真的沒有法源不要睜眼說瞎話我希望針對這個沒有法源的問題這個法律漏洞的問題你們去填補家庭專科物理師有他推動的必要性我認同但是法源要完備因為法源如果不完備會有什麼問題會有命運罪的問題如果今天專科物理師也好護理人員也好"},{"start":617,"end":636.778,"text":"他沒有在醫師的指示之下執行醫療輔助行為他會有密呼罪你們如果要另辟蹊徑讓他們能夠根據預理醫療流程去執行醫療輔助行為請修法把這個法院的漏洞填補起來更何況你們今年今年積極推動了家庭專科護理師的育成居家護理所的示範計畫法院的依據好嗎"},{"start":639.961,"end":642.583,"text":"我們這個法案的依據是二四條護理人員法的二四條那第二四條裡面就講專科護理師及第七條之一接受專科護理師訓練之後的這個專科護理師呢他可以在這個"},{"start":655.393,"end":660.914,"text":"醫療監督下執行的醫療型業務我們有定這個辦法所以你覺得監督兩個字就是法源嗎那我們這個有一個辦法那辦法已經把專科護理師可以執行那個項目已經匡列出來好我告訴你第一你覺得監督兩個字不是你覺得監督兩個字就是等一下你覺得你讓我講你覺得監督兩個字就是法源請問監督的定義是什麼醫師所為的指示指導跟督促"},{"start":685.058,"end":702.789,"text":"所謂的監督就是醫師所謂的指示指導人督促請問一下這六個字當中有預歷醫療流程的概念嗎有有有好第二第二就算就算專科護理師與醫師監督下執行醫療也有辦法是一個法源好了是一個法源我們勉強認為他是一個法源我們有兩個辦法他是一個法規命令"},{"start":703.669,"end":719.53,"text":"法規命令如果抵觸議事法第十一條規定就會違法這是基本的common sense法律的ABC你抵觸的不是議事法第十一條的規定而已你還抵觸了議事法二十八條密罪的規定議事法二十八條密罪規定白紙黑字在這邊請想讀"},{"start":721.573,"end":748.972,"text":"那我接著講家庭專科護理師你們近年積極的這個推動那你們在事辦計畫裡頭呢要求呢居家護理所必須添設這些設備我覺得是應該的我覺得是必要的但是這些設備的添置就曝露出說居家護理所的專科護理師去居家勤進執行業務他其實就是滿滿醫療輔助行為的執行但是卻沒有法源你說的法源育立醫療流程根本沒有法源你講的那兩個辦法"},{"start":751.614,"end":765.28,"text":"有魔法授權下的兩個辦法來來來一個來來來來來來來這個嘛這個嘛請問一下這個就是專科護理師這個辦法哪裡哪裡說你告訴我哪裡說專科護理師依據預歷醫療流程可以執驗你告訴我5678956789我已經羅列出來了5哪一條說專科護理師依依預歷醫療流程可以執驗5哪裡有6哪裡有7哪裡有"},{"start":780.796,"end":800.814,"text":"哪裡有 有啦 第六條說根據育立醫療流程可以開立表單只有說根據育立醫療流程可以開立表單有說根據育立醫療流程可以執行醫療輔助行為嗎請不要睜眼說瞎話了沒有法源 沒有法源 就是沒有法源你再硬繞一千次 還是沒有法源"},{"start":804.395,"end":817.08,"text":"好請問何時能夠把這個法源填補起來法規不完備法律有漏洞請問何時能夠把這個法源其實就是修法補法源而已有這麼困難嗎有一些認知上的落差啦沒有認知上的落差沒有完備"},{"start":819.821,"end":843.008,"text":"完全沒有完備我們在過去執行這麼長的時間從來沒有發生過違規或者是法院的這些判決的事情因為衛福部長就是完全欠缺法律的認知啊所以在你的眼裡看起來就是沒有違法的情勢啊但事實上就是欠缺法源你們完全指不出來法源我已經努力出來啊你說有兩部執法好來這部執法我已經努力出來56789請問哪裡告訴你專科護理師"},{"start":847.209,"end":850.731,"text":"依據預理醫療流程可以執行醫療輔助行為請告訴我比如說這個你們就修法就好了嘛檢查檢驗這個本來就是醫師要開的這個本來是醫師要開已經授權了授權什麼這個第一條啊比如說非侵入性的這些本來是醫師的範圍"},{"start":870.683,"end":891.341,"text":"是低風險 是啊可以啊專科護理師的職業範圍根據副表一跟副表二可以執行40樣的醫療輔助行為問題是前提要有醫師的指示啊沒有醫師的指示你要按照預定醫療流程你就要有法源啊就是找不到法源 師長真的找不到法源專科護理師他有當然一個國際上跟"},{"start":891.821,"end":901.351,"text":"大家在醫療照顧需求的講那是國際上你來到台灣台灣專業人員職業都需要法院好說起法院我講最後一件事情我講最後一件事情那個護士的實習要點其實也是行政規則如果你們要透過護士的"},{"start":908.678,"end":914.921,"text":"的實習要點去擴展非具護理人員資格的人來臨床上執行業務的話那你們把這個法源放在行政規則裡頭我個人認為用行政規則的位階來處理這個事也抵觸了護理人員法的規定因為護理人員法說要取得證書的人才可以充護理人員但是你們現在讓不具護理人員資格的人就用你們的行政規則就可以在臨床上執業我就問一句嘛請問一下"},{"start":937.492,"end":954.443,"text":"病人的安全你置於何地病人的安全沒有取得護理人員資格的人你讓他去執業請問病人安全置於何地你就只是因為人力荒你找不到人力你沒有辦法用這些留任的獎金的方式或者是用一些人力改善的方式你就用這種"},{"start":955.584,"end":965.428,"text":"奇奇怪怪的方式去讓護理人員回流回流的不是合格的護理人員我相信這個基層護理人員是沒有人可以接受的你一來危及病人的健康你二來貶低護理人員專業的價值沒有具備護理人員的資格就可以投入職場請問一下我們辛苦去考國考到底是為了什麼"},{"start":978.053,"end":1002.32,"text":"你如果用行政規則的方式去放寬非具護理人員資格人投入職場行政部本身衛福部本身就是帶頭違法其實衛福部帶頭違法的地方比比皆是我今天只是揭露一樣到兩樣而已好那再請這個衛福部呢能夠去這個填補漏洞給我們專科護理師一個完備的一個法律制度避免他們在命運罪的邊緣遊走好"},{"start":1004.602,"end":1005.364,"text":"以上說明謝謝好謝謝謝謝謝謝部長接下來請"}]}},{"id":"167557","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167557","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053f38db9a109273ab6d268b4a161496bd9f13775304d9d746a78b37549b5781d025ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"09:38:20 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请三个机关代表上至巡台"},{"start":13.68,"end":34.257,"text":"好,我們來看一下這個投影片第一張在右手邊是我看到經濟部關於網路上一些造謠圖卡的回應我要說這次中東戰事的因應確實行政院整個動作很快但是呢,非常多網路的網友造謠的動作也很快而且甚至快過經濟部"},{"start":35.558,"end":59.263,"text":"所以次長你們很快出了這個圖卡但是我要提醒次長在這個狀態目前戰爭的局勢未明之下請問經濟部有沒有判斷有沒有任何的造謠的因應動作或者是手段來請次長回應一下因為這個事情其實是會讓人民的心感到浮躁跟不安的第一個中東戰事開啟的時候經濟部每天就召開應變小組的會議"},{"start":62.352,"end":83.459,"text":"量足價穩是我們的工作目標那不幸的是有一些網路的這個謠言那這個謠言事實上我們第一個時間就發布了這些的訊息那剛剛委員講的我們除了將這些所謂的錯假的訊息或是刻意捏造的這個訊息送給相關單位去清查之外"},{"start":84.554,"end":102.014,"text":"我們還及時的來做包括曾經跟說明拿出證據來比如說委員你這個螢幕上右邊所秀的就是我們永安場我們有縮時攝影在這段期間我們都有這個天然氣傳進來這是一個不是事實的一個狀況"},{"start":103.424,"end":131.731,"text":"好謝謝市長的說明我時間有限不過我這邊有幾個建議我確實看到經濟部第一時間回應消息那因為其實執政黨的委員也非常的關心每一個委員都會受到來自民意的壓力所以我是不是有個建議除了你們剛剛說你們會把這些謠言送交相關單位清查再來你們會做出澄清的資訊還有回應甚至有新聞稿我甚至建議在這段時間你們應該要不定期的召開記者會"},{"start":133.311,"end":142.06,"text":"直接透過影像向國人說明直接由第一線的這些部會首長出來告訴國人穩定民心這個部分你覺得有沒有辦法做到"},{"start":143.199,"end":166.899,"text":"謝謝委員指導我們會持續這個部分希望經濟部可以有一些回應再來就是我們來看一下關於這個福島核災的部分我想這個事情很多人都清楚了時間也剩我就不再贅述不過剛剛柯先生講得很重要大家都知道核廢料要有解然後要有社會共識然後核安也要有答案所以我要說剛剛柯先生"},{"start":167.219,"end":182.491,"text":"柯先生委員說法好像是一副就是台電把報告送出來之後呢核安會審查然後馬上核三就可以開機這件事情我認為這個是非常錯假的說法我不會說柯委員在造謠但我會說這是一個誤導的說法"},{"start":184.713,"end":210.707,"text":"我可不可以让经济部或者是河安会来说一下到底那个写功课完交出去报告然后河安会你们预计要审多久而且为什么要审这些内容还要请哪些专家学者来审然后最后审完之后往下会发生哪些事情请快速说明一下像让国人心里面非常清楚不要到时候台电报告送出来之后呢社会舆论就会说啊报告已经送出来了为什么河山没有办法重启来好"},{"start":211.835,"end":212.355,"text":"好,快速說明"},{"start":241.975,"end":256.791,"text":"那這部分都是要台電公司提交送到會裡面來審查那行會會依照自己的職責會邀請國內外的學者專家來進行嚴格的把關好 那現在我們就實際問一下我們讓更多人更放心我們來釐清這個相關的訊息"},{"start":258.212,"end":281.27,"text":"你剛說國內外學者專家那現在台電或是經濟部已經讓大家知道可能三月底就會送出假設三月底台電真的如期送出何安惠在多久以內可以召開第一次的會議我們有這個排定的期程嗎還是已經有沙盤推演為什麼我要這樣問因為台電的核三廠現在它基本上是一個世界首例"},{"start":281.73,"end":296.187,"text":"也就是說過往在其他國家其他電廠他們可能有在停業前先送出研議的申請書可是核三非常特別他是停業停止運轉之後呢才送出相關的申請書所以我算我認為"},{"start":296.547,"end":316.38,"text":"算是世界首例所以对何安慧你们的角色来说你们有没有杀盘推眼什么时候要召开第一次委员会然后甚至这个委员会持续看台厅的报告要看多久然后才有可能重启核三不要到时候我们在还没有任何预防的情况之下又被民间说你们为什么看了报告不赶快让核三运转来"},{"start":318.09,"end":331.683,"text":"跟委員說明,那首先台電公司提出文件之後,依照程序我們會進行程序審查,然後確認文件是符合法規要求的一些必備的文件,然後確認完程序審查之後才會進入實質的審查。"},{"start":333.464,"end":352.816,"text":"這部分我們會邀請學者專家來一起來審查包括會裡面的同仁確認說整個是不是符合法規所以我們一要先進行文件的程序審查確定程序沒有缺漏也就是報告交得夠完整之後我們才實質召開國內的專家學者有沒有一個期程的推演"},{"start":355.063,"end":373.442,"text":"還是要看他的文件的完備性跟技術的是不是可以達到核安會的要求好我們就來看看好不好但我相信核安會因為會把相關資訊上網公佈對嗎是好那我們就希望我們第一時間國人都可以知道相關的訊息接下來我要看下一張"},{"start":374.862,"end":394.56,"text":"接下来就是因为河山再运转的事情其实有非常多人在关心下一个那河山的最终处置就是最终处置场这件事情其实刚刚柯委员也提到确实在高阶核废料选址条例都还没有完成立法现在目前为止也没有任何县市任何乡镇愿意承担成为核废料的最终处置场域"},{"start":395.04,"end":419.423,"text":"那核二廠的事情之前就是因為乾除設施卡關燃料池塞滿所以呢被迫停止運提早停止運轉我想問一下目前我們看到你們今天交出來的報告裡面來下一張你們有說要去開相關的公聽會跟說明會我想知道核安會或是經濟部或是台電這邊有沒有任何的規劃跟說明如何跟更多地方的鄉親說明然後時間是什麼"},{"start":421.608,"end":440.962,"text":"跟委員說明,如果台電公司在3月份提交災運展計畫的話,那進入實質審查之後,我們就開始會資訊公開,以及在地方,就是河山廠所在...等一下等一下,來,時間往回推,你說進入正式審查之後,意思就是前面的那個文件程序審查還不會開公聽會?"},{"start":442.388,"end":447.492,"text":"因為要確認所有資訊要符合資訊公開原則然後進入實質審查之後就會開始一方面做實質審查一方面也會在地方就是河山場所在地的恆春鎮會召開地方說明會"},{"start":465.205,"end":489.815,"text":"這個說明會的主責單位會是河安會加經濟部加台電嗎河安會會主動辦理那邀請經濟部跟台電出席嗎那我們就希望進入實質審查之後務必要積極進入地方開公聽會跟座談會那因為呢這個跨縣市的距離很大而且甚至我認為會不會到時候不會只有屏東的鄉親關心如果屏東附近的"},{"start":489.895,"end":511.173,"text":"的縣市關心你們有沒有機會跟規劃到其他的縣市去辦相關的說明會我們是參考國外的做法就是在核電廠所在地的區域那有預計要辦幾場呢在運轉計畫一開始審查包括審結之前也會再辦一次地方說明會"},{"start":512.284,"end":536.462,"text":"你沒有回答我的問題我再說一次有沒有機會要辦幾場有沒有規劃目前規劃是兩場兩場就兩場屏東就兩場然後再進入實質的討論之後會再有一場實質審查一場然後完成整個再運轉計畫審查會再辦一場所以就是前後各一那如果當地的鄉親或者是縣市首長要求要再加場怎麼辦"},{"start":537.168,"end":565.318,"text":"那我們再衡量看看是整個規劃時程為什麼會這麼說在處理很多地方事務的時候如果只有所謂的一場加一場其實對很多鄉親來說一般的人要去配合公務員的時間其實是有困難的所以我才會說我認為地方縣市政府如果到時候要求加場真的還是要拜託河安會經濟部跟台電必須要釋放出最大的誠意跟鄉親說明而且在我們都還沒有看到報告之前其實網路上就"},{"start":565.418,"end":566.579,"text":"可能开始有很多的谣言"}]}},{"id":"167556","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167556","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60538a2ea8438ec8853152e56fd78df8e650f13775304d9d746a7fc55635423f6f005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"09:34:47 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大概什麼時候就是培育指數的ETF最快什麼時候市場看得到"},{"start":196.731,"end":216.859,"text":"對 因為跟委員報告因為這個是我們要先提供給客製化的指數給他們他們要去做商品的設計或這樣但是我們從1月我們提出那從你的經驗嘛你告訴我什麼時候可以推出來最快最快最快最快基本上來講我們希望的是下半年啦因為下半年不會入籍啦"},{"start":217.979,"end":223.121,"text":"這個東西除了會在旁邊害逃一下半年 沒福氣啦我們會盡快的這樣子啦 我們就講一個東西啦三個月以內可以吧"},{"start":233.891,"end":249.861,"text":"主委 接下来你答應一下啊才女的才做得算數啊這個不是這是一個市場行為啦就像對的事情好的事情努力目標可以吧我們剛剛朝這個方向努力就應該講我們從1月開始就努力現在我們也在努力"},{"start":250.962,"end":265.351,"text":"董事長也報告說他很積極地開這些說明會找這個其實仔細看齁這前一陣子啊前一陣子那個這個台積電摔得很慘的時候那個小型獲利不錯的那個股啊活不能跳的"},{"start":266.332,"end":267.534,"text":"火不能跳的,所以這個字有賣點的我跟委員報告,你的觀察是正確的像我們這段時間裡面,我說的是3月初的這段時間"},{"start":281.835,"end":309.995,"text":"大盤整個跌幅大概5點多%我們的埔育指數相對來講的跌幅大概只到2-3%所以這些數據我們都會跟這些投信公司做說明你不方便公佈投信的名字嗎對對對因為這是屬於商業新聞沒關係你不能公佈但是今天在這裡公開場合這樣子我就希望你們無論如何回去告訴他"},{"start":311.124,"end":334.601,"text":"立委關心這個題目我們對於整個的健全股市都很有幫助我們有三個月努力目標可以吧我想剛剛委員對的是好事我們會努力來做啦三個月三個月就是上半年不要下半年來沒戶期啦我們盡量來促成六月底以前那個主委你有沒有養龍蝦沒有"},{"start":337.81,"end":364.446,"text":"你知道我講什麼吧 知道奧芬克啊 你沒有養龍蝦啦你知道現在有人在養龍蝦 知道吧應該蠻普遍的 普遍現在股市分析師都在用喔因為它實在很方便啊你可以告訴他什麼 它的功能哇 噼哩啪啦的又可以 本來就可以 根本不理你猜幹什麼的但是問題就來了喔 它風險也很高你有沒有去了解 鉅商有沒有在用"},{"start":365.694,"end":384.233,"text":"這個我們其實我們最近在我們內部的會議裡面我們也非常關切這個問題所以我們已經請我們相關單位開始開始來針對這個東西的使用還有就是未來應該怎麼做因應的現在我就跟你講一個實際的情況萬一我下指令給這個龍蝦當時軟體了要open call"},{"start":387.436,"end":407.495,"text":"結果我說台積電買一張結果他可以買十張怎麼辦這個就是怎麼樣所謂的那個管理的問題因為完全借重一個機器或是一個程式來做的話那常常萬一你只有看到結果才知道中間出錯嘛"},{"start":408.476,"end":423.399,"text":"所以這個就是我們一個新的工具我們本來就是好好去理解他到底可能會去年十月出來可是現在已經很紅了這個到處人家都要養嘛這個我是建議你也去養一下去看一下是是是可以吧"},{"start":424.24,"end":451.539,"text":"對 當然可以啊好 那就問你什麼時候可以退出金管會 這個是很serious喔安全手冊 你要不要提一個安全手冊沒有 我們已經有關這個資安還有一些內部控管那對於新的事物我們本來就隨時會檢討這件事情把它做一個我想金融業是一個高度信賴的行業它必須做 它自己應該自己有這樣的一個內控問題嘛 你要不要退出一個安全手冊養龍蝦的安全手冊 要不要"},{"start":453.121,"end":460.231,"text":"要不要啦 我問你要不要如果他已經影響到我們的經營的安全這當然就會列入到我們的衛生資料要啦 要退出啦"},{"start":463.941,"end":485.421,"text":"連對岸他們都推出安全手冊,那你輸了?對,是不是就安全手冊,但這些管控措施應該都要來做啦不然就安全指導手冊,可以嗎?這兩個字我們會發布門多的像AI使用的指引,或是其他我們內部的措施什麼時候可以發布?我剛跟委員報告過,我們已經責成內部再處理啦"},{"start":487.428,"end":510.984,"text":"什麼時候啦這個我現在沒辦法給缺些時間像這種事情我們能盡快一定是盡快也可以吧AI agent手冊可以嗎AI我們本來就有了啦怎麼針對AI agent這件事情一些新的使用比如說你要使用這些軟體的時候應該怎麼樣做內控怎麼樣什麼項目"},{"start":512.264,"end":536.014,"text":"這個不是很難吧這個東西沒有很困難才對啊原則是很容易但是真的要如果金融業真在實作的時候那就要比較仔細的去去研究才知道怎麼做才是真的能夠精準的好不好這個盡快吧我們再看一下那個光電業最近大家最近這個是最新的消息兩天以前的他講說這個"},{"start":539.078,"end":563.896,"text":"這個開發商啊 深陷資金疑雲了從誠心集團看漁電共生漁電共生 光電不是只有漁電共生嗎漁電共生這個大%整個幾乎每一家銀行都有當那個連帶的主辦銀行北富雲啊 台銀啊 連帶啊等等還有什麼網報銀行 都有光漁電共生就超過500億啊現在都面臨到營運的困境"},{"start":568.018,"end":581.451,"text":"那對這些營運來講其實他普遍得滿高的我現在就問監管會怎麼看待這個事情他這個連帶案啊到現在為止沒收索啦台灣如果說沒收索你怎麼加強監管"},{"start":584.396,"end":603.009,"text":"這個對於某些特定產業它帶放上面一些風險的管控我想在銀行他們在當時就做過風險的評估那該怎麼做他們大概都有一套的作業方式啦所以他們萬一被倒就活該是不是不是 就是銀行本來就是它是一個你看喔 北匯雲統籌組辦新人員餘電共生56.4億"},{"start":610.588,"end":628.079,"text":"然後兩天前的誠心集團最大餘電共生也是一樣這個報導者雜誌都這樣出來寫的仔細啊看的是這個樣子啊所以這個你們要加強監管啦"},{"start":628.769,"end":655.001,"text":"我想我們在這個地方我們針對個案我們不會去評估啦我會在這邊公開去評論這個個案當然就是說我剛才講說銀行在做一個貸放的時候他本質上剛貸放的時候他必須做過週延的評估分析但是這樣不能確保所有的貸放都一定是沒有風險所以我們才會刻意風險資本還有一些資本記憶體壞帳我想這個他們都已經做得好最後一個最後一個我就最後一個小問題問你你下午就下來"},{"start":656.941,"end":669.887,"text":"虛擬資產的立法進度怎麼樣現在是這樣我們行政院已經大概基本審查完畢再做一些行政程序的話這個尊重行政院的程序應該就會送進立法院來審議那大概什麼時候一個月以內可以吧"},{"start":675.669,"end":699.137,"text":"我沒辦法代行政院回答但是我希望說應該是能夠盡快的送進去所以那時候只要送到立法院只要我們這裡通過就可以發行穩定幣是不是應該講它有一個立法歷程這個通過以後呢我們要等那個我們穩定幣的執法通過以後實施才可以開始進行差不多半年以後的事情應該至少謝謝謝謝賴司保委員接下來請"}]}},{"id":"167566","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167566","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605320647eb76a6bb0e752e56fd78df8e650854b2f19bd25f700356a8bce1c9ee5345ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"09:59:43 - 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事實上來講 某種程度來講前一天就有參考價了啦而且美股開盤就有參考價了 ADR就有參考價了所以他基本上來講他就迫不及待要去交易啊 你還差那個十分鐘那個董事長你去研究一下啦 很多參考價啦不一定是開盤的時候就有參考價而且還有權值股越來越多的情況底下 他還有其他的可能性呢譬如講有沒有信用交易的可能"},{"start":438.562,"end":454.043,"text":"為什麼整股可以信用交易為什麼零股不能信用交易而且它交易的金額也不小啊因為它的可能絕對的金額會大過於其他的整股捲紙股大一點我買一個100股我也可能會大過其他的股票啊那為什麼其他的股票可以信用交易這個不能信用交易"},{"start":454.977,"end":471.238,"text":"董事長 可以吧你們研究一下 跟中國研究一下甚至還有現階段當中的問題就是說如何將領股跟整股的這種差異性去化掉 這很重要同樣的投資人 同樣的馬股票大到小到差那麼多"},{"start":473.781,"end":478.268,"text":"跟委員報告對於現在我們有那麼多的領股的集體的參與我們絕對會重視他基本上的協議這個部分也謝謝委員給我們的一些建議本席慎重提醒一個月給本席一個報告好不好可以"},{"start":489.123,"end":514.131,"text":"這如何把它差異性驅化掉保障他們權益嘛就像主委剛剛開始講的嘛通常是投資人都應該被保護嘛對不對主委這個方向可以考慮嗎對就是我們是一個我沒有見過國際級公平的市場跟透明的市場這部分我們覺得是一個好的方向我就會請那個教授謝謝主委的肯定啦是好的方向主委另外一個部分我還是要就教於您的部分雖然剛剛有其他委員有提過有關於這個"},{"start":516.533,"end":528.454,"text":"這個巴黎慘險撐不住近五萬的保單要什麼時候退場這個第一個啊如果啊這個保單的權益實現還沒有消失的情況底下這一個"},{"start":529.522,"end":552.393,"text":"巴黎產險公司他要怎麼去面對保護的權益這個主委你要跟這些保護喊話一下二來他沒有擔保三來員工的權益怎麼保障這都很現實的問題啊因為我只有看到你們很震驚啊但是不曉得後續的處理方法是什麼那是媒體講很震驚其實我們早就知道這個事情了你不震驚喔不會不會 這很正常"},{"start":554.494,"end":572.763,"text":"市場本來就有盡有對為什麼所有法律都有一個退場機制本來就有這個退場機制在過去他不是第一家離開台灣也不是第一家進入台灣他有的程序都非常非常明確我想他非常清楚也都密切跟我們保險局在溝通他跟我們權益什麼保障一個一個問你"},{"start":574.224,"end":590.619,"text":"我們有勞基法就按照這所有的法律來進行盡量不要Lay off盡量把他轉任保有他的工作權比那個勞基法勞基法那是不得不的做法其實我們在他提出的時候我們就已經跟他研擬各式各樣的員工的權益要保障第二個是保護的權益"},{"start":592.661,"end":609.48,"text":"對 那個都沒有問題那實際上他比如說我們任何一個這個特許事業他做資本還有保證金一定要你所有結清這個東西我們才會做這個所以不會有問題這個沒有問題那將來有沒有可能還會有類似的事件產生短期內"},{"start":610.02,"end":638.628,"text":"沒有我們希望說台灣是一個能夠自由進出因為我們對外資的保險公司完全沒有差別的待遇所以我們也歡迎他們來當然他們自己經營決策我們也跟他溝通過我們也尊重他就像主委所講的外資的保險公司來自本土著地其實有相對他的困難度也相對有這個風險也請主委特別注意一下但是也有他的優勢嘛所以我們歡迎台灣還是非常友善而且對所有的外資我們都會我是擔心有類似的事件產生的時候啦好不好"},{"start":638.928,"end":639.449,"text":"謝謝主委 謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"167564","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167564","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053ffa1487974f269146c6d05596fd77c73854b2f19bd25f700a43b6bb286f025085ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃仁","委員發言時間":"09:54:12 - 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好不好"},{"start":300.445,"end":312.562,"text":"謝謝我們肯定另外喔對於今天的報告本席注意到這個僑委會強化海外的性保基金的服務本席同意擴大海外性保基金對於擴展僑態"},{"start":316.566,"end":341.133,"text":"台商事業版圖的正向但本席也注意到這個當中的一個風險那我想海外信保基金的目的是在以為喬台商提供協助但是存在風險也非常的明顯畢竟它是一個政府信用和公帑為海外企業提供一個擔保那讓他們能向外國銀行融資"},{"start":341.913,"end":367.167,"text":"所以當信保基金擴大相對應的是承擔風險也會提高所以僑業會會比較強調擴大海外信保基金的一個好處的部分但這個隱藏在背後的就是風險由誰承擔如何管控會不會變成海外紓困黑洞這是一個本席的擔憂那以目前海外信保"},{"start":368.248,"end":381.088,"text":"信保基金的一個設計看來政府要承擔90%的風險銀行幾乎不用害怕倒帳那這會讓銀行和企業更大大膽的放款的一個借款"},{"start":382.219,"end":399.976,"text":"評估風險之後緊急性自然會降低但是真的會出事的時候就丟給政府處理所以請問海外現在的信保基金總保證餘額大概多少不良保證比例大概多少來回答"},{"start":400.836,"end":411.462,"text":"委員我先講大概的概念會之所以成立海外信保基金的原因就在於說因為過去的金融機構對於在國內資產他可以做集合的狀況之下他會比較願意提供融資貸款這樣的一個機會那因為他有這個動產不動產的相關保證那因為對於海外的這些資產他們沒辦法去做集合"},{"start":425.25,"end":439.526,"text":"那在早期因為這樣的狀況之下當時的李前總統有敢於說海外台商是我們國力延伸很重要的力量為了拓展這個機會所以才成立了海外信保基金就是幫他們做保"},{"start":440.447,"end":464.688,"text":"那做保的過程當中 當然政府會有一定承擔風險的可能性所以我們從早期的10億元基金開始事實上跟委員報告 我們績效非常良好我們從10億的資金一路 然後到了2017年第二次增資計畫當時行政院核定再多加20億那我們前10億的資金 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我想請陳部長物業部陳部長"},{"start":21.406,"end":38.443,"text":"部長我想先請您看幾張照片就在前幾天我跟丁學中委員一起去這個田裡面你看得出來這是什麼作物嗎大蒜那你看得出來它跟正常的大蒜有什麼不一樣嗎"},{"start":39.484,"end":54.441,"text":"夜燒枯萎沒錯你是專家這個夜燒枯萎代表著什麼就代表著說對而且代表著說他已經沒有辦法再進行光合作用所以他的球體是沒有辦法繼續增大的那針對這個病蟲害"},{"start":58.615,"end":85.495,"text":"目前農業部這邊有什麼樣的措施?據我們試驗單位同仁的了解就是它相關於跟葉蠻有關的蟲害的部分那我們也啟動了我們的區改良廠來協助我們的農民做相關的一個防治的一個作為這就是一個問題所在因為我先請教您知道這一分地種植成本大概有多少嗎?"},{"start":88.059,"end":109.677,"text":"好 沒關係你們都不知道這個種植成本大概要6萬6萬喔然後呢 每撒一次農藥就是成本在增加我那一天去田間 這照片上沒有看出來那個農婦 她就坐在餐廳烤"},{"start":111.38,"end":121.367,"text":"他就在那靠說 歐國衛就要修行啊現在他就在賣現在要再噴農藥 要再加一筆開銷他現在是要噴還是不噴噴下去 修行也不一定好 像噴下去又加料那假設 部長你設身處地在他的這個情況之下你覺得是要噴還是不要噴"},{"start":140.834,"end":165.067,"text":"我想當作物遇到病蟲害的時候農民看到這些病蟲害就應該要去做善盡這樣的一個管理是 但是在這之前他已經噴了好幾次他全部照著正常的田間管理所以呢問題就在於說他現在已經受到病蟲害非常可能已經一定會面臨失收會賠錢了"},{"start":167.569,"end":171.957,"text":"現在再叫他每再噴一次農藥他就是越賠越多那這個困境到底怎麼解決呢"},{"start":176.84,"end":199.475,"text":"不過我跟委員報告因為要看你每個田區的個案有一些已經從葉間黃到葉根了那可能噴掉效果就不會那麼好但是有時候是剛剛發生的時候你去噴是絕對有效的所以我沒有辦法剛剛我舉例因為這不是單一田間這是非常多鄉鎮現在都發生這個狀態"},{"start":202.421,"end":222.775,"text":"我合理懷疑當然我不是專家我合理懷疑是因為極端氣候然後地球暖化所產生的一些變化那所以沒有辦法按照我們以前的那種天時下去種植跟以前的田間管理有辦法去維持到豐收的狀態所以呢他們現在"},{"start":226.818,"end":230.101,"text":"被不斷追加的農藥錢 他說本來如果噴三次會好現在要噴五次壓力真的大到喘不過氣來那我想要知道說 你們有沒有可能可以有任何的救助辦法來協助他們"},{"start":244.265,"end":265.879,"text":"現在目前天然災害救助辦法病蟲害是農民該負的一個責任所以沒有辦法用天然災害救助的辦法去做協助難道這個極端氣候然後氣候變遷地球暖化所導致的病蟲害不算是天然災害救助辦法中的不可抗力因素嗎"},{"start":267.38,"end":280.731,"text":"我覺得委員不能一概而論因為如果說病蟲害發生就可以開天然災害的話那大家就不用去噴藥啦那我再舉例那為什麼當初屏東的洋蔥"},{"start":282.489,"end":309.88,"text":"可以當初屏東的洋蔥因為劇烈的氣候變化受到病蟲害的侵襲農委會就核定說恆春的洋蔥可以納入天然災害補助呢請問一下這個為什麼屏東的洋蔥可以雲林的蒜頭不可以這個評判的標準在哪裡我不知道委員所提到的這樣子的一個"},{"start":311.701,"end":336.647,"text":"中央社的一個報導是哪一年然後他下這個標不見得就是這個因為我們在做天然災害判斷的時候就是部長你要去查你要去查你知道你背後站了多少人嗎你背後站了8個都搞不清楚狀況我們那個高中長他說陽中是因為天然災害不是因為病蟲害"},{"start":337.864,"end":366.06,"text":"但是相對的天然災害造成的哪一種天然災害它上面就寫說去後劇烈變動遭受病蟲害侵襲寒雨 冬天的寒雨造成因為那我問你那我問你寒雨是那我們現在忽冷忽熱就不是這個判斷的標準我想我們天然災害判斷是沒有辦法說服大家的有我們的專家的判斷基本上呢 那就是天然災害"},{"start":367.975,"end":391.289,"text":"直接的影響 並從來第二次的接近部長 你就是判官 你知道嗎 你就是農民的判官你不能一出來就判他們死刑 你知道嗎我們是根據相關的天然災害救助辦法去依法行事那如果假設 寒雨可以 現在這幾個月忽冷忽熱不可以"},{"start":392.796,"end":398.177,"text":"你覺得這合理嗎 這判斷的標準在哪裡我再講一點 我幫農民再講一點你現在的意思就是說做這個農業 從事農業 雇農 有賺有賠"},{"start":413.187,"end":418.571,"text":"報果致富那不就跟那個理財你跟那個理財的專家講的不就一樣嗎但是你不要用這種方式去影射我我沒有要影射你你不要再激動我現在是希望你幫忙我希望你幫忙我現在告訴你說昨天你講說保駕收購是農業退步的"},{"start":441.53,"end":455.578,"text":"退步的什麼你講我現在就問你嘛當初丁薛忠委員問院長的時候你們次長說要維持在27塊27塊你維持得住嗎如果你現在這裡可以跟我承諾你27塊維持得住我給你按個讚但是我覺得27塊還不夠能不能再拉高"},{"start":469.065,"end":473.249,"text":"第一個我農業部不會啟動保駕收購但是你有其他的辦法對我會來協助農民去穩定價格我不拘泥你的辦法我也不拘泥你說你要保駕收購但是你要想盡辦法的去維持這個價格但我目前看到是已經大家出來說23塊啦"},{"start":489.827,"end":500.31,"text":"那你27塊是在天空飄啊最重要的一點 你說23塊是加工算的部分我覺得有很多數據不能把它混淆然後我現在再跟你講12月底開始到現在將近四個月 三個多月算頭是已經接近採收期囉"},{"start":513.39,"end":520.375,"text":"大家都在擔心說要減少進口不要讓價格崩盤這應該是最基本的道理吧是不是 我想我們"},{"start":523.993,"end":534.297,"text":"政府沒有權利去禁止進口但是我們有所謂的那你要稍微控管吧我們有配額然後有關稅外的加價你知道嗎從12月到現在進口了超過8000噸的蒜頭短短不到4個月進口了8770公噸的蒜頭應該沒那麼多吧這個是有數據的2000多我們這個數據接到現在2700"},{"start":553.123,"end":559.448,"text":"的蒜頭中間阿根廷佔了8430噸我在想農業部怎麼討論保護蒜農的收益為什麼要在產季的前夕大放大放開放進口呢大量開放進口這是什麼意思嗎我覺得委員不能這樣講我們的大蒜有配合"},{"start":577.381,"end":581.105,"text":"配額外的關稅還有一個保護機制我現在是在提醒你我不是在怪罪你你可以不要自動啟動這個保護機制嗎我現在提醒你的是你又去預防這個狀況怎麼會你不去掌握這個狀況我們有掌握所有的進口的算"},{"start":600.524,"end":619.498,"text":"那你是不是你現在答應我說你會努力去把蒜頭維持在27塊以上這樣可以嗎我想我們會盡我們的能力去穩定相關的蒜農的收益我們的相關的方案很多都出來了我們相關的方案公告就會知道"},{"start":619.898,"end":643.265,"text":"大概什麼時候公告 我可以知道嗎我們會盡快的 盡快的公告 盡快是三天 五天 還是十天 我們盡快的公告你內心沒有底嗎 我有底但是我們會盡快的公告對啊 我也希望你可以盡快 因為這些人喔 這些農民他是晚上都在家裡考我跟委員 我非常感謝委員對蒜農的關心那我相信委員"},{"start":644.045,"end":662.691,"text":"相信我們農業部一定會跟農民站在一起我們會啟動一些相關的一個機制來確保農民的一些收益好 相信你 好不好但是你不要讓我失望欸你不要過了下個月我又在這裡再問你這個然後你再告訴我其他的好不好好 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陽俊發言 邀請部長請農業部陳部長"},{"start":15.782,"end":17.723,"text":"肥料的問題,農民現在看到中東的戰勢升高,影響到橫浦海峽的運輸全球的肥料與能源供應量出現了這個動盪"},{"start":37.251,"end":65.665,"text":"依據英國商品顧問機構CRU的一個指示他說全球三分之一的這個留守也就是淡肥以及45%的這個硫磺跟磷肥這兩項都必須要經過赫姆茲的海峽來運輸那在這樣的情況之下因為航道目前受阻那導致從衝突開始到現在"},{"start":67.105,"end":91.2,"text":"這個流所現在大概已經上漲了大概40%那卡達的這個尿素工廠它也停產印度減產巴基斯坦以及孟加拉那這個工廠也停工不少的這個國際的專家他都指出有一點憂心也就是今年的糧食供應恐受到這個衝擊"},{"start":93.041,"end":121.174,"text":"但是在我們自己國內我們仰賴進口包括了黃小玉的部分玉米跟大豆百分之九成以上都要依賴海外肥料也多數是由國外來進口在這樣的情況之下當然部長您也說了我們的部分我們肥料的部分你可以支應到今年的下半年"},{"start":122.554,"end":127.818,"text":"這是你對外之前所做的說明但是昨天我在總質詢的時候我也特別針對於這個能源的這個問題也因為這個海峽的問題 航運的問題 無人機這個衝擊的這些問題那所以黃曉玉的部分政府"},{"start":143.027,"end":167.234,"text":"也由原本的今年的3月底 剪碎的這個部分是再延長半年那由這個例子我們可以看出也就是說我們不知道這個戰爭什麼時候會停而且我們看不到停的這個方向所以如果您只有說是到今年的下半年我們可以支應"},{"start":168.394,"end":174.518,"text":"但是就像行政院能源的部分3月沒問題4月沒問題5月他要買更高的能源的來源他已經說囉那我本需要請教部長因為沒有這些肥料那農民該當怎麼辦呢那你的應對方式是什麼一旦漲價起來你要怎麼應對請做說明"},{"start":192.048,"end":208.621,"text":"先跟委員說明其實我們的肥料來源並不是只有全部靠那個中東地區進來的其實我們原料的來源是多元化的當然是多元化但是你會有所影響啊對 我還沒講完就是說我們這些尿素的部分包括氮磷鉀的部分"},{"start":209.281,"end":226.088,"text":"根據現在的庫存跟已經在海上要駛到台灣來的部分大概可以供應到8月的部分甲肥的部分可以供應到10月那磷礦的部分可以供應到12月所以你已經告訴我們是今年的下半年嗎對 第二個部分就是因為這個牽涉到戰爭會持續多久那如果持續太久的話就會影響到船運的費用還有就是它工廠製造的費用這怎麼辦"},{"start":238.473,"end":261.187,"text":"那這個部分我想我們不能運的部分我想我們會啟動其他的國家我剛才說的肥料的多元國家供應就能夠稀釋原來靠中東來的部分這個台肥公司已經在啟動相關的機制那萬一能源提高的時候我相信以農業部的立場我們一定會跟台肥做協商能夠"},{"start":262.408,"end":276.715,"text":"讓我們的肥料穩住肥料的價格不會讓它漲過去在COVID-19的時候我們就啟動過就是不漲價那相信如果說真正的戰爭持續到我們必須要漲價的時候我想政府會努力來吸收這個價差"},{"start":278.271,"end":297.252,"text":"我們兩個答案不能讓農民沒有這個肥料萬一這個中東的還不停那我們會從其他國家來補足但是這個補足你一定要超前部署因為全球都在輪動這個不確定感太多了這第一個量不能不足第二個不能漲價"},{"start":298.833,"end":302.675,"text":"由政府來吸收不能讓農民這個肥料又漲價我們這個承諾是這兩項嘛對不對所以不能漲價我們要給我們的農民說請大家放心這很重要那因為留守本來就是我們肥料最重要的一個核心嘛這最重要"},{"start":317.64,"end":325.622,"text":"好 接下來本期要跟你討論的就是說我們在96年的時候通過了農村再生條例那我們說10年內編列的這個1500億來成立農村再生基金那到110年就沒有再預算撥補進去了可是我們看到審計單位也跟你示警了也就是說到114年底我們剩下300去年底315億那116年底恐怖"},{"start":346.028,"end":364.814,"text":"可能只剩下22億元那要請教部長針對於這樣子我們農村再生條例的這個部分那你要怎麼樣去制度性的去應對 請做說明第一個部分就是農村再生其實在農村界是非常重要的一個基金我們好不容易來通過116年就會見底了"},{"start":367.995,"end":388.376,"text":"我記得在前年的時候很多委員提到就是說要把再增基金再增加1500億但是農業部不認為這是好的方向因為由立法院這邊直接在法裡面增加預算就是違背相關的財政紀律法但是我想在那個時間點我已經跟議長報告過"},{"start":391.238,"end":411.208,"text":"他也知道農村財政是一個很重要的經費的來源那未來年度的規劃的經費如果不足的就是由國庫來撥補用撥補的方式就像現在農發基金也是用撥補的方式農損基金已經用完了但是每年我們還是編列然後編列由公寓才來撥補所以這個本席就是要跟你討論的為什麼"},{"start":413.169,"end":436.1,"text":"在前一兩年我們很多部分藍綠的委員藍綠白的委員都提出也就是點出了農村再生條例的一個執行的繳成的一個重要性而且我們也已經預見在116年的時候他可能就見底了那如果說每一個基金他扔就我多少我給你補多少"},{"start":436.92,"end":460.272,"text":"那這樣子的一個方式他不確定感太大了所以呢您剛剛部長也說了農村財政條例是非常的重要而且現在已經推展到各個區塊都已經落實我們希望能夠繼續延續下來所以我還是請部長你好好去研議看看不是說你缺多少補多少缺多少補多少如果是這樣子那人民"},{"start":461.852,"end":484.781,"text":"這個沒有確定感 本身不太贊成是這樣的方式 因為農民也不是去吃啦那不確定感又加上來 那我們怎麼去推動你是不是研擬 116年要見底我們116年要補多少進去我們是不是有一個定數 這樣子是不是讓大家在執行方面可以比較安心 而且不會中途中斷"},{"start":485.941,"end":511.778,"text":"謝謝委員的關心我想第一個就是農村戰爭基金本身後續的怎麼運作要不要修改相關的條文然後是不是用定額的方式去做撥補的方式我想我們包括經費來源我想我們會先研議然後跟行政院做討論以後再來試試你多久研議出來給本席說明這個至少要三個月三個月你研議然後把方向給本席"},{"start":512.318,"end":530.587,"text":"我再給你一個功課也就是我們的海草問題海草對於我們整個環境是非常重要我們看到了80年來從113公頃萎縮到不到40公頃你們從幾年前也開始在澎湖試點"},{"start":531.887,"end":537.391,"text":"但是試點的結果現在不到1公斤那你們認為跟你們原先預估的還是不足那你還有什麼方法因為我們看到每30分鐘我們會損失了大概一個足球場的一個海草的一個量體那如果持續讓它這樣子那我們該當怎麼辦你要怎麼樣去補足呢"},{"start":558.654,"end":578.404,"text":"我簡單跟委員說明就是我們要出估大概全台灣大概海產的負益面積可以300公頃那技術已經可行了現在是怎麼樣大量化那我是希望水市所針對類似我們水稻的央苗的方式有沒有先去育苗以後在海底裡面去種稻類似這種概念那個效率會比較快"},{"start":579.642,"end":604.561,"text":"好所以在這段時間我們看到聯合國環境規劃署因為一批他也特別提出1930年來面積已經消失全球30%所以我們一定要好好的努力去做你把你們你說你現在技術之前不到一公斤你技術你預計要怎麼做請你書面資料給本市我們一起好好來把它完成好不好謝謝非常感謝"}]}},{"id":"167567","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167567","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053fa72c09712f68917d268b4a161496bd9854b2f19bd25f700356a8bce1c9ee5345ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"09:57:00 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我們核廢油解跟社會共識是三大原則我現在要問你說你們在社會共識這一塊做了什麼努力因為核安的話是核安會在審查"},{"start":95.905,"end":104.195,"text":"那合會的話你們要很積極的尋找相關的處置的場域但是社會共識這一塊你們預計用怎樣的步驟去實踐"},{"start":106.138,"end":131.63,"text":"包委員大概這樣就是台電是一個電力的專業單位所以所有的社會溝通其實尤其在核能部分其實應該站在專業的這個部分那專業部分當然就是說我該做的哪一些工作我認為社會有哪些疑慮比如說對於耐震的這個疑慮那我怎樣去把一些大家的疑慮我進一步用專業的角度"},{"start":132.15,"end":155.402,"text":"那你告訴我你用怎樣的專業來角度讓民眾對於耐震的這個部分取得信任跟支持讓專家講話讓專業講話什麼時候開始會做這樣子我們已經在做我們已經在做針對社會上關切的議題包括核廢料的議題包括耐震的議題我們也是召集了國外的專家國內的專家我們用平台的方式呢把社會的疑慮呢讓專家來開口來講話"},{"start":158.323,"end":182.992,"text":"那甚至呢我們如果需要進一步的調查或進一步的一個成立一個專業的副總的意思我明白你的意思就是說這樣子一些相關的對於民眾有疑慮的部分不管是在我們地層的部分結構的部分安全的部分我們會請專家用他們專業的角度來讓民眾能夠理解能夠了解能夠支持那你們已經開始在做你們一直安排怎樣的場次"},{"start":184.698,"end":212.074,"text":"呃基本上來講比如說呃有關於耐震的這一塊呢我們現在也是召集了國內的一些學者專家 國外的專家時間不多齁這樣子許副總我拜託你們齁把你剛才你所說的你們要做的關於各種安全的一些相關的這些跟民眾必須要有溝通的必須要有共識取得的這些你們所安排的場次你們所安排的這些你都做一份資料給我們所有教文委員會的委員"},{"start":213.075,"end":226.296,"text":"好沒問題就是你們要如何取得社會共識這一塊你們如何推進如何做如何落實好嗎好這塊請你們就是做一份詳細的資料給我們提供資料給我們各位委員那我現在"},{"start":228.65,"end":251.529,"text":"這邊我們這個部分請你提供給我資料之後我們再來做討論那接下來要跟您討論是說這個用電的安全竹克在前天有傳出這個超高壓變電所發生爆炸的事故造成很嚴重的公安事件那火勢也很大一直到晚上才完全撲滅台電現在有先釐清說事故發生的主因嗎請問專總好"},{"start":255.83,"end":279.023,"text":"謝謝好 跟委員報告那整個事故發生阻音我們現在還在釐清當中因為整個火場目前檢察官預令不得進入好那我們是在現場我們有這個我們的故障記錄器都還在裡面我們還沒辦法取得那這個部分我們會等到檢察官放行之後我們會盡快的是因為還沒有辦法進到火場裡面去做主要的調查因為新聞報導有說這項工程是針對電壓穩定設備來做進行這個測試"},{"start":284.226,"end":313.906,"text":"那所謂測試應該就不是一個如果是平常的安全檢查或安全測試應該就不會造成有這樣子重大的一個事故發生所以到底什麼地方出問題你們也說目前這裡面的設備是最先進的氣體絕緣開關設備所以發生這樣的事故你們除了說先自己做內部的這些你們有沒有做相關的這個施工安全指引的這個了解說說他有沒有照照照這個SOP在進行的"},{"start":315.647,"end":341.221,"text":"就是說這個本身設備我們在因為是屬於真的是測試階段但是前面的一些單元測試都已經完成都沒有問題那這一次主要是要從變電所那邊加壓過來做系統的一個測試但是我們在測試的階段我們預先都已經做了封控的一個演練所以說我們把整個防護的快速的一個保護都有三段式還有我們把"},{"start":341.781,"end":363.723,"text":"用戶的這個部分跟我們測試的部分是分開所以說才會事情發生之後只有大概0.1秒我們整個故障就排除掉也沒有造成停電因照您現在回答是說該做的安全的防護的措施其實都有做那但是因為現在你們沒有辦法今天到現場實際的去調查原因所以現在問你你也沒有辦法回答說到底是因為什麼樣而造成這樣的事故"},{"start":364.284,"end":374.571,"text":"但是我會希望說這是一個很重大的教訓這個經驗一定要記得就是說我們用地安全其實不只是針對用戶端那其實我們在相關的人員的安全這邊也要落實所以我希望說你們要督促並且很嚴格的落實檢修人員的這個安全指引的規範他們在做相關的這些檢修的時候這些職安訓練我們都要非常的注重包括這些承包商我們也要注意說他們是不是有做過完整的這些職安的訓練"},{"start":394.204,"end":414.566,"text":"好那這個部分呢等你們確定的這個起火這個爆炸的原因之後呢也希望你把相關的資料能夠給我辦公室我們再來討論相關人員這個安全維護到底在哪裡是有落差的好謝謝那許副總請回喔接下來我要請經濟部賴次長跟中油的黃副總"},{"start":423.013,"end":448.209,"text":"接下來本席要關心的是民生的問題針對目前統裝瓦斯價格很溫暖中部的民眾尤其是在我的選區彰化縣的部分統裝瓦斯因為是台塑公司主要供應那統裝瓦斯去年的價格到現在已經漲了三次20公斤的統裝瓦斯漲了將近要100塊那加上我們彰化縣其實是美食小吃遐而知名的我們是美食重鎮"},{"start":448.829,"end":459.694,"text":"那小吃店的成本呢他他們很大的一個部分在這個瓦斯上面他一周至少有三桶以上的這20公斤的瓦斯所以民眾跟店家對這個瓦斯漲價這個部分呢都覺得說為什麼不是應該"},{"start":464.616,"end":464.836,"text":"好 第一個"},{"start":489.844,"end":504.882,"text":"桶酸瓦斯也就是液化石油器基本上我們進口的這個貨量都沒有來自於荷姆斯海峽所影響的地區所以我們認為說在這個部分其實貨源跟貨量第一個是充足的"},{"start":505.646,"end":523.122,"text":"那第二點是你剛剛委員所提到的彰化這個地方的桶裝瓦斯事實上供應商之間因為桶裝瓦斯它是一個自由競爭的一個市場包括台塑跟中油對 所以說是市場機制的關係你們也沒有辦法說去做很大的干預"},{"start":523.943,"end":539.684,"text":"我們大概農運署都有定期的去跟包括說石化業者大概是來傳達說政府希望是穩定物價的一個概念那我們也密切的注意到它產銷之間的一個變化"},{"start":541.847,"end":567.653,"text":"如果是有這些不當的這個存機的這個問題或是調度不應的這個問題我們在應變會議裡面都有掌握這邊本席想建議我們經濟部跟中油要我們跟台塑公司可以再加強溝通一下這個關於漲價的部分我們是不是說在現在真的萬物起漲我們很多原物料都漲價的這個情況之下在瓦斯這一塊是不是可以動漲"},{"start":569.153,"end":590.409,"text":"可以不要再漲那中油公司這邊是不是也來評估我們來加強供應給彰化地區的這個可行性因為台塑公司它是私人的企業我們沒有辦法在價格上就是介入太多但是如果由中油來提供一個比較穩定的一個價格這樣子的瓦斯來提供給彰化的民眾你們這個可行性你們可以評估一下嗎"},{"start":591.71,"end":606.443,"text":"我們的意見我們會帶回去研究不過基本上它的供銷它都有一定的供應鏈還有包括它的契約關係這我們一併來進行評估好 謝謝那次長請回我現在再請一下我們那個河岸會的陳主委"},{"start":613.766,"end":620.991,"text":"主委好 本集在這邊有一些整理了一些核安會陸續針對SMR這個研發所推動的研究計畫那我們核安會呢從112年就開始進行SMR的相關的前期的資訊及管制法的這個法規的彙整那從114年就開始正式啟動SMR的這個先期研究包含爐心動態結構"},{"start":636.701,"end":638.143,"text":"呃 這個請高 高院長回答一下好不好"},{"start":656.56,"end":666.569,"text":"報告委員,這個爭取中明年開始4年的LMR、MMR計畫現在初步國科會科技辦公室核准只有一半,4.8億"},{"start":668.519,"end":688.016,"text":"那是不是有機會爭取到我們原先的目標十億可能還需要再努力所以他是先合一半是那我們也可以開始起步了即便說沒有爭取到完整的十億的經費我們有一半的經費就先起步今年已經有一億的軍會可以開始做一些先行的研究明年是四年一加四年總共五年期的計畫好"},{"start":688.356,"end":714.102,"text":"本期為什麼很關心這個計畫呢因為這個計畫裡面有包含高放射性廢棄物的處理技術也就是說我們高階核廢料的處理這個技術可望在進步那如果說我們整個的計畫有順利的爭取到我們開始來進入這個整個的研究的這個期程開始進入之後呢是不是就是我們可以很快的來協助到我們核電廠來處理這些高階核廢料"},{"start":717.512,"end":728.868,"text":"SMR新的技術有三種反應器第一種是加速器驅動的次臨界反應器叫ADS"},{"start":730.269,"end":750.258,"text":"這個因為還在發展中大概十年內可以發展完成如果這個可以發展完成我們國內大概五千噸的高階核廢棄物預計可以四十二年可以處理完畢不是百分之百就是百分之九十五從數萬年以上可以降到這幾百年的高階核廢棄物但是這個技術還等待商業運轉"},{"start":751.198,"end":765.883,"text":"第二種技術是熔岩式的反應器第三種是鈉能式的快支撐這三種SMR都可以減少至少七成以上的高階核廢棄物說明完畢謝謝您的說明所以其實剛才我有強調過為什麼我非常關心這個計畫是說我們希望有這樣的計畫我們可以爭取到之後我們趕快去研發這樣的技術來協助核電廠來處理這些高階的核廢料如果說核廢有解"},{"start":779.867,"end":794.877,"text":"那我們有社會共識加上河安這個部分我們送出來計畫審核是沒有問題的那我們核電廠運轉才能得到民眾的支持也才能得到民眾的信任所以這個部分我希望說河安會我們相關的研發要加緊腳步請你們更積極好嗎"},{"start":799.06,"end":825.159,"text":"事实上过去多年来核废料的处理技术上也有很大的进步还在继续进步之中我希望以后来有机会把高级核废料转换成中低级核废料这整个问题就会容易解决的很多好 谢谢周委谢谢好 谢谢陈修宝委员的质询请官员回座接下来有请郭玉琴委员"}]}},{"id":"167555","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167555","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053f4679a2bf59a84186c6d05596fd77c73f13775304d9d746a731c2c8d8f10815b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"09:31:57 - 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謝謝"},{"start":1952.356,"end":1979.082,"text":"謝謝部長有關本次會議各項書面資料進入記錄刊登公報現在開始審打 作以下宣告本會委員審打時間6加2分鐘 略協委員4分鐘4點半截止發言登記委員如果書面質詢前 散會前提出預期不受理暫定10點半休息10分鐘原則上11點半處理臨時提案11點截止收案現在請登記第一位委員 禮略請召委發言"},{"start":1987.231,"end":1989.673,"text":"主席麻煩我們的市部長好 委員長部長早 在長照3.0要上路的原因我有很多問題要來請教部長我最近趁著空檔時間 從2月1號到現在我大概走訪不同縣市的長照機構那非都會地區需要長照機構而設立長照機構最大的問題不外乎就是評鑑"},{"start":2015.06,"end":2028.491,"text":"所以我想先來請教部長有關評鑑的問題台灣已經邁入了我們的超高齡社會長照的制度也是進入到而今年正式進入到長照3.0目前全台最"},{"start":2029.13,"end":2049.255,"text":"需要長照服務的人口已經超過了100萬人因此長照服務的品質跟我們的監督機制非常的重要可是我們自己看到就是說最近就有報導指出現行的長照機構評鑑制度出現了文件導向的一個現象甚至延伸出協助機構來撰寫評鑑資料的一個評鑑顧問"},{"start":2054.209,"end":2078.451,"text":"不然你自己有沒有看這樣子的一篇蠻冗長報的那收費呢從10到50萬不等所以部長你知道這件事嗎這樣子的一個評鑑制度到底是要在提升照顧品質還是在檢查文件品質這事實上是由來一直以來的問題我想不是只有長照過去托嬰中心幼兒園也都是這樣就是有寫手來幫忙幫你"},{"start":2080.242,"end":2100.072,"text":"整套的東西都整理好可是到底真實的事實上是機構的品質嗎可是如果評鑑事實上是如果做文件的話一定會拿到優好如果一旦發生問題的時候很常政府就會被批評說啊你已經他都是優啊那他為什麼會這樣為什麼發生不幸的事件呢好所以不知道你知道這樣的狀況嗎"},{"start":2101.532,"end":2121.663,"text":"我想跟委員說明,那麼為了提升這些照護的品質,我們經常都是採用兩個手段,一個就是督導考核,那一個就是用這個評鑑的方式。那當然評鑑是比較軟性啦,那但是呢,它的標準上呢,就可以可能會朝向這個一直在優化。"},{"start":2123.464,"end":2144.393,"text":"確實在過去從醫院評鑑可能做了比較久大家也可以看得到這個後來也是出現有這個文件paperwork太多反而造成臨床上的壓力所以我想這個長照的評鑑我們也一樣會跟目前在做醫院評鑑改革的精神是一樣的盡量去降低"},{"start":2145.794,"end":2164.217,"text":"這個文件這個paperwork盡量能夠降低但是也導入一些智慧化因為我們也不想只是因為一日的評鑑當天的評鑑那很多就是一日表現很好但是平常不好所以還是要建議過去用文件就是說可能當天"},{"start":2164.817,"end":2179.174,"text":"一天的評鑑怕失準所以才會準備一堆長期的文件那如果我們能夠建立起自廠的監測機制那麼我想這個文件的要求就可以下降當然在"},{"start":2179.694,"end":2192.15,"text":"我們的長照機構跟醫院不同是說它的小規模的很多所以它本身的資訊能力也比較有落差所以我們會盡量來協助改善"},{"start":2194.633,"end":2208.263,"text":"所以我最擔心的就是說第一線公眾員反映說有些機構就是文書人員很多幾乎都在做文書可是照顧人力很少照顧員必須花很大量的時間將近大概要花35%時間來處理重複的一些記錄"},{"start":2210.604,"end":2219.652,"text":"反而壓縮了照顧長者的時間更可能找所謂的我們的評鑑顧問來代寫我覺得先個案紀錄找評鑑顧問來代寫實在是坦白講有點離譜就是說我從A機構評鑑的時候看到的跟B機構寫的個案紀錄完全一模一樣這真的事實上讓我們覺得說那這樣子的"},{"start":2229.861,"end":2253.661,"text":"品質何在呢所以想問部長說目前評鑑指標當中我們的文書記錄跟實際照顧品質的比重各自是多少為什麼因為有時候評鑑幾乎委員都在看黨本資料很少去看到現場現場也有些樣板的給你看甚至記錄都有樣板的給你看所以政府是否評估過這種過度化的反而是讓增加第一線的一些負擔"},{"start":2255.065,"end":2256.892,"text":"詳細的評鑑的過程我是不是請長照司的副市長來補充"},{"start":2262.02,"end":2290.106,"text":"謝謝 謝謝委員這邊的垂詢關心那我們其實非常看這種評鑑的實質到底評到了什麼所以你們只有60項可是那指標真的都是在文書因為有分專業組跟經營管理組那委員剛剛說只看文件不看現場那個是經營管理組因為他確實要看他整個機構的管理的部分去抽那些相關人員排班的一些狀況那另外三個全部是看現場市長說這些也是可以做出來的嗎"},{"start":2291.246,"end":2319.127,"text":"看現場的部分其實是當場抽個案然後當場這個要求這個照顧的人那一個行為動作讓他當場做出來所以其實這樣子其實是可以看到所有的現場的照顧的人力有沒有能力去處理這些相關的市長我想這個評鑑應該講不是只有長照連我覺得很多的機構評鑑都落入到這問題所以我只是希望你們"},{"start":2320.308,"end":2338.593,"text":"不管照顧小的照顧老的齁真的機構在照代為照顧的時候真的要去把關了齁那另外衛福部也透過我們的住宿型機構的照顧品質獎勵計畫來鼓勵提機構提升品質這很好啊齁報導也指出說有些機構在申請補助時只有針對"},{"start":2339.853,"end":2360.735,"text":"少數的樣板個案來展示他的照顧成果所以要問的是會不會如何確保這些補助真正能夠反映到整體的照顧品質是不是有事後的追蹤跟我們的隨機抽查像剛剛部長也講了 不能一天好 其他天事實上都沒辦法事實上是滿足"},{"start":2361.455,"end":2372.403,"text":"照顧品質所以我不知道說你們事後有沒有做一些追蹤或者是抽查因為報導裡面反映的是說當天大家都表現得很好可是後邊呢並不是這樣子做"},{"start":2375.209,"end":2390.957,"text":"對 就像我剛剛提到的我們大概有三個機制嘛一個就是這個年度的督導考核嘛那一個就是評鑑這個是定期的那還有一種就是不定期的抽查制度啦那我想剛剛委員所提到的"},{"start":2393.158,"end":2414.711,"text":"這個為了避免只是在當天的樣板個案那可能要去強化這種外部專家的這個審視的能力第二個就是抽查所以部長我還是認為未來真的長照3.0應該從文件治理走向品質治理減少文書型的一個指標強化實地訪查來讓我們的"},{"start":2417.132,"end":2433.357,"text":"住民跟家屬有回饋機制讓長照真的是去能夠提升品質再要問的是就是說我們的長照3.0到底誰在使用為什麼這樣講因為我常常說政策制定一定要回到真正的使用者的一個經驗首先"},{"start":2433.877,"end":2449.089,"text":"依據衛福部資料顯示大概112年的長照服務使用者當中失能的人照顧的大概將近八成可是50到64歲的身心障礙大概兩成是最低的所以現在超過七成的長照服務使用者都是"},{"start":2450.571,"end":2470.169,"text":"輕中度的失能者不然這是代表我們現在的長照服務的主要對象其實都是輕中度失能者問題就在這裡真正照顧壓力最大的其實是重度的失能家庭而這些家庭往往不是靠長照制度而是靠家人自己在乘或者是聘僱外籍看護工"},{"start":2471.169,"end":2491.424,"text":"來做照顧所以看統計目前台灣就是全台大約有21.4萬名的一個失能者的一個聘僱外籍家庭的看護移工可是其中大約有4成同時使用長照服務可是更值得注意這4成當中因為去年開始外聘我們的"},{"start":2492.905,"end":2508.005,"text":"看護移工的時候還是可以用你的長照服務可是值得注意這四層裡面只有三分之一其實只有用一項服務不然這代表什麼這是不是代表我們的長照制度的一個設計可能沒有真正貼近重度家庭的需求"},{"start":2508.665,"end":2523.67,"text":"政府現在公布的長照服務涵蓋率其實是不是高就是你高估了制度真正要滿足需求的程度為什麼現在滿意度很高可是滿意度是不是有用的人可是有很多人事實上是沒有在使用你的需求的評估"},{"start":2524.89,"end":2546.077,"text":"的狀況是什麼否則的話你現在的滿意度事實上是有用的人嘛所以好像沒辦法真正的事實上知道說到底那個需求到底是什麼那這會造成什麼問題當長照服務滿意度越來越高時這些需要長照資源的重度家庭可能因為沒有被知道沒有在使用你的資源而且"},{"start":2546.677,"end":2565.587,"text":"部長當長照服務滿遇度越高不是應該會減少照顧者的照顧壓力嗎那為什麼我們還是依然發生了照顧殺人的悲劇依然持續在發生所以要問是如何提升從那個重度失能者使用長照的比例讓政府接住照顧者"},{"start":2566.527,"end":2582.774,"text":"也跟委員說明一下按照我們的統計在幾支付的使用比例裡面大概重度的是佔20%然後中度的40%那當然還有40%是屬於輕度的大概是這樣的分佈那麼比較tricky的就是這個重度的"},{"start":2583.674,"end":2606.509,"text":"有一部分其實是到這個住宿式機構去的這個大概差不多12萬人那還有一些是在家裡的所以我們在居家的部分怎麼去強化這個支持就是剛剛回應到最後這個長照悲劇的部分其實就是那個重度在居家的部分怎麼去強化這個support對 部長上次我有諮詢也講過這個對 包含喘息的還有這個社區裡面的照顧者的資源"},{"start":2613.253,"end":2640.545,"text":"這些我們在長照3.0裡面會特別來談話所以希望部長我這以下有三個建議請你大概一個月內給我這個報告也就是政府應該建立我們重度失能優先支持的一個服務設計然後降低申請門檻像可不可以增加我們的夜間或者是喘息服務而且要簡化我們的申請流程第二個就是政府應該思考整合移工跟長照制度不要讓家庭自己有外聘"},{"start":2641.141,"end":2667.193,"text":"移工的時候自己呢獨自要去照顧的時候以為反正他有移工可是實際上基本上他的負擔還是大的可能去思考到這個兩者是不是可以怎麼協作那政府也需要建立真正反應需求的政策指標所以你現在用的長照的服務的涵蓋率來說明你的政策成果可是真正要被服務的人可能重度的事實上是沒被你納入"},{"start":2669.121,"end":2691.193,"text":"跟委員再補充其實我們長照3.0已經把那個有移工我剛也講過他們用的比例事實上非常的低你還是要去瞭解為什麼用的比例這麼低再來瞭解一下使用率低的所以部長是不是可以一個月月提供這些評估報告這三項可以啦好謝謝部長謝謝謝謝委員謝謝林玉琴委員再來請陳清輝委員"},{"start":2703.123,"end":2707.125,"text":"主席好 各位委員還有官員好 我們請時部長請時部長部長好部長因為我知道您在衛福部已經服務非常非常久所以對於所有的菸害防治這些相關的法規您應該是非常非常熟悉啦那我們來看一下這個數據經歷菸害防治法的修法還有我們把菸捐調漲我們會看到說"},{"start":2730.154,"end":2744.491,"text":"男性女性整體的吸菸人數是節節下滑這個成效是卓越的不過到某一個時間點他就有一點停滯了那你會知道說女性吸菸的比例還在近年來提高的原因是什麼嗎女性吸菸率上升的問題"},{"start":2753.032,"end":2767.225,"text":"您說我們也特別注意到了有注意到就是說這個女性的吸菸率好像這個這兩年有一些爬升的現象我們再來細部的分析看看有什麼特別的原因"},{"start":2767.945,"end":2796.184,"text":"所以現在回答不出來沒關係我先跟您說到最後整體持平這個也許是一個沒有辦法改變的樣態因為吸菸的人口就是有一個固定但是我們現在想要您注意的地方是這個女性吸菸的比例升高還有兒少您的報告已經延遲了一陣子了這個你們每兩年會做一次調查所以112到114應該要有但現在115年3月了"},{"start":2796.684,"end":2812.88,"text":"第一我想請問你的報告什麼時候會出來跟委員說明我們內部的報告大概已經完成大概下個禮拜會對外公佈那你要不要先稍微講一下數據看起來這個數字是有在往下有在往上嘛因為110下降"},{"start":2814.065,"end":2840.774,"text":"如果你說下降那我會覺得跟大眾你隨便到你隨便問一個校園的老師跟大眾的認知實在是太脫節了這個多月委員質詢耶裡面牽涉內建部牽涉治安包括電子菸的購買網路上現在好簡單甚至他到便利商店只要包一包他根本也不知道裡面是菸然後48種口味都可以買得到他"},{"start":2841.934,"end":2869.845,"text":"關係到青少年的健康嘛兒少健康 校園的煙害防治還關係到這個毒品治安甚至是行車等等因為上次煙案新聞常常都會發現所以你的意思是說110到112下降大眾已經覺得跟他們在路上看起來不太一樣現在112到114又下降了你現在要告訴我們這個嗎112到114又下降了電子煙的青少年使用又下降了"},{"start":2871.552,"end":2893.754,"text":"我請那個國健署省署長說明一下這個目前的調查報告是報告委員從我們的監測調查抽樣的調查的數據來看確實是在下降在國中高中電子菸加熱菸跟止菸的吸菸率當然下降不是那麼明顯就是可能從3.7下降到3.5左右你們是怎麼抽樣調查的我好奇問一下"},{"start":2895.136,"end":2908.295,"text":"我們的監測調查有一定的程序那那個抽樣的話就會隨機的去抽樣你們是抽兒少這個族群還是你們有去問老師高中生你們沒有去問老師我們其實是針對學生抽樣"},{"start":2910.802,"end":2931.82,"text":"我問你小的時候你如果被發一張問卷問你有沒有偷抽菸你會寫有嗎在整個抽菸過程當中都會保護個人的隱私你要不要考慮換一個方法因為這個跟大眾的認知真的差太多了我們建議你如果你要去調查要不要把這個師長的數據跟學生的數據對起來看看謝謝委員的建議我們會納入參採"},{"start":2939.824,"end":2962.378,"text":"好那再來我們再回來請教部長部長因為現在呢台北市有率先提出說他們想要效法日本可以在室外推這個戶外負壓吸菸室大概有兩個優點第一個是二手菸嘛你有時候走在路上沒有明確的規範哪邊是禁菸的地方那可能就會吸到別人的二手菸甚至是三手菸"},{"start":2963.359,"end":2983.139,"text":"再來呢我們可以把菸蒂集中管理不會讓清潔人員東掃西掃這樣子那前幾天你是在媒體上說台北市這樣做與法可行我們是想問您是對這個政策正面看待還是覺得說菸漢防治法您很熟法規沒有很明確寫不行所以你們可以自己來做做看"},{"start":2984.219,"end":2999.833,"text":"沒有我講的法規非常清楚這個是在菸害防治法第19條第一項第4款就是可以由各級主管機關去公告哪個地方是一個吸菸禁菸的場所然後在這個禁菸場所"},{"start":3001.694,"end":3030.443,"text":"指定的這個區域裡面再去指定可吸菸區啦那所以按照這樣的話就譬如說你現在是在行人這個什麼步道區你就給他宣布他不是明定我們在院內防治法18條是針對室內主要空間去做明定這個禁菸那但是部分的室內空間可以設室內吸菸室19條的話多數是針對戶外明定但是保留了第4款由各級"},{"start":3031.603,"end":3058.684,"text":"這個主管機關再去宣布一個禁煙場所然後再配合這個吸煙區的設施我幫你調出來這邊是第18條你剛講的如果我們要在室內設一個吸煙室其實你規定的是蠻清楚的你寫說負壓要多少換氣要幾倍滑門要怎麼做排煙口距離多遠這個你是有一個SOP的所以我們偶爾也會在一些百貨公司看到有這樣子的室內吸煙室但是室外這個是您剛提的第19條嘛"},{"start":3061.286,"end":3084.163,"text":"它現在是講吸菸區所以我剛剛問你的是說室外吸菸室是不是用你的19條這是第一啊因為你講到說每一個地方它可以有明確的標示說這邊是吸菸區另外面積不得大於室外面積的二分之一嘛那其實它沒有一個統一的標準我們現在要問出來的就是說"},{"start":3088.206,"end":3105.836,"text":"之後台北市真的開始做或者是有人覺得台北市做得不錯但是它的設置的樣貌不太一樣你是不是這邊你要說我都正面看待各縣市怎麼做都可以取決於他們的預算或是他們的規劃或者是你要統一給一個指引"},{"start":3106.596,"end":3125.977,"text":"因為你剛剛說你會依照法規第19條但很簡單你看18、19差多少18訂得很細耶19只有講說你要放一個標示跟不可以超過二分之一就這樣耶對當時候在立法的時候這個都是在法規上把它區分出來因為室內的空間有限"},{"start":3126.658,"end":3141.762,"text":"所以你要設置一個室內CNC的時候呢會有比較高規格的設置所以才會有授權執法去訂定這個這個室內CNC的設置標準但是戶外的樣態很多它空間也比較大"},{"start":3142.362,"end":3163.912,"text":"所以他只是指定一個CN區但是這個CN區必須要有管理分別在這個這個陰害防治法的第22條跟23條他都有規範你的管理設備上你怎麼維護那避免呢這個保護我們受保護的像是孕婦啦還兒童呢青少年的不要進入到CN區明顯標準所以你的意思是說"},{"start":3165.092,"end":3181.771,"text":"我只是要問一個結論您的意思是說現行的法規已經足夠了你未來不會再另外出一個指引假使特縣市實施的室外吸菸區或是室外吸菸室它看起來的規格不同你不會再另外設指引了"},{"start":3181.971,"end":3198.787,"text":"我們會看未來各縣市執行的情形如何譬如說它現在我那天提的很簡單的概念就是你這個CN區戶外這個CN區你可以比照這個去設置這個市內CN市的設置標準去設置當然沒有問題"},{"start":3199.808,"end":3220.695,"text":"你是規定還是說你可以可以是大家都要叫室內這樣做那麼你現在來講呢這個戶外的這個指定的吸菸區與法是可行就是說你必須先指定一個區域是禁菸然後再去指定那個吸菸區吸菸區不能夠應該是這樣講啦其實我們只是很簡單的想要"},{"start":3223.936,"end":3249.294,"text":"請教你如果未來各縣市不同大家已經花了預算去做了嘛你會不會跑出來說不行這樣子不行你可能要依照我們第18條的規定市內的那些規定來做我們現在其實就是問你一個很簡單的問題你會出職員還是不會目前這個法律上沒有授權但是如果說各縣市政府有這個需要我們可以召集大家來共事一下"},{"start":3250.815,"end":3271.855,"text":"就是專家跟各縣市大家來共識一下說大家都要朝這個方向想要這樣做的話有一個您說的指引也好或者是一個那現在有一個縣市想要這樣子做了你要找嗎如果是台北市已經有一些做法他可以提供給我們我們來幫他協助看一下"},{"start":3272.776,"end":3286.325,"text":"不是啦現在就是要問你說你會不會主動去找他們說你要怎麼做我跟你商量一下那看你做出來不要做出來中央要說不行要依照第18條其實我們就是問你這麼簡單的問題我們希望齁這個"},{"start":3290.948,"end":3305.647,"text":"這個禁煙這個煙害防治都是我們共通的目標啦所以如果是縣市政府有這個需要的時候都可以請我們我們會來協助另外我們這個國建署也會找這個專家大家來討論一下"},{"start":3307.709,"end":3331.061,"text":"所以你最近有這個規劃會請這個台北市想要做的這個資料先送來那我們也可以幫他列為我們在討論的一個這個材料所以在這邊請教您一個進度就您多久以內會完成這個會議您預計這個月底之前就會召開這個月底 對下一個署長您可以回座"},{"start":3332.602,"end":3343.85,"text":"好下一個呢是最近很多護理師在網路上討論的這個影片啊他們看著看著就哭了我們現在沒有聲音在辛苦的時候你要想到有一個人就算已經當到總統了還是很羨慕你的工作"},{"start":3355.698,"end":3379.268,"text":"這個是賴清德總統他1月24號出席健康台灣深耕論壇的時候講出來的話但當然後來根據審計部他有去調查他說實際上月投保薪資是3.8萬但在賴總統的眼中他覺得5萬很高他很羨慕他們可是護理師說這是他們不眠不休犧牲了很多生活品質家庭生活才換來的"},{"start":3381.51,"end":3405.95,"text":"這邊簡單的數據不過相信部長你也知道嚴重性近期內有個調查針對五千多名的護理人員他發現說未來一年內離職大概有45%那年資在五年以下離職意向最高他們高達52%那現在這個新的世代的他不一定是因為薪水他可能還要兼顧工作環境有不友善還有他的工時高壓醫療糾紛等等"},{"start":3409.012,"end":3422.899,"text":"這邊只是很簡短想要問石部長兩個問題您最近接受媒體的採訪你有提出好幾個解方包括調高住院的護理費啊或者是集中生護理費要再提升但是我針對其中兩個"},{"start":3424.8,"end":3430.823,"text":"覺得非常的疑惑也是網路上很多人在討論的一個叫做住院整合照護計畫擴大你一口氣從五千要加到三萬三萬請問你現在的規劃人第一個人哪裡找第二你床哪裡來你的空間在哪裡你盤點過了嗎你可以告訴我們你初步盤點的狀況嗎"},{"start":3447.009,"end":3474.854,"text":"我想要先替賴總統澄清那天的談話我在現場他主要是針對醫師的發言他不是說護理人員的薪水他很羨慕不是這樣他提的意思是說因為他一開始的志向是要從醫但是因為走入了政治之後那麼就放棄了從醫這一條路所以他是針對底下的這些醫師大家的同僚"},{"start":3477.975,"end":3497.423,"text":"這個抒發 他很羨慕大家能夠繼續的統一的這個職責沒有 大家都歡迎他回來做臨床工作所以他不需要羨慕 他完全不需要羨慕你先回答這個住院整合照護計畫你一口氣從五千喊到三萬你到底盤點過嗎 你這個三萬是什麼根據來的嗎"},{"start":3501.178,"end":3528.419,"text":"我想這個住院整合照護計畫是對於這個減輕護理人員的負荷是很有幫忙那麼因為現在的高齡化的關係住院的很多都是老人家那麼他需要一些生活的服務照護那麼如果沒有這些服務的話呢那通常這些工作就會轉嫁到護理人員的身上所以在過去呢我們已經推動了兩年效果很不錯"},{"start":3529.059,"end":3558.316,"text":"那只不過又與預算的關係呢只能夠推動到5000床那現在呢5000床以去年我們編的5.6億來講已經用超過了所以我們才會在去年的這個預算裡編列的時候希望今年能夠擴大因為有很多醫院提出需求我們是根據提出的需求但是我們的預算只有那麼多才核定5000床事實上需求已經超過這是醫院提出來的所以我們是根據醫院所提出來"},{"start":3559.156,"end":3585.151,"text":"希望開辦的那麼去規劃這樣加一加有三萬就對了但是你的造福源現在還有一個很大缺口根據不同的統計第一我先更新一下你一三年開始你是希望可以減少護理人員的流失可是護理師提供給我們的數據還是在流失這第一所以我不知道這個效果很好可能是局部有幫到忙還是怎麼樣再來呢當然是因為他的規模不夠嘛"},{"start":3586.031,"end":3596.935,"text":"因為只有五千五千床而已規模不大我們現在一共的床數急性病床就七萬床教服員這個兩萬到六萬的缺口你如果沒有解決請問你這個三萬床要怎麼開出來我想因為我們這個三萬床剛剛提到這個是醫院提出說他可以"},{"start":3603.519,"end":3618.653,"text":"他可以開辦的床數只是我們的預算不足以給他所以我們才會編列預算希望說那醫院既然他願意來開辦那我們就來提供預算所以只是這樣的一個好沒關係我們會每年再看一下您這個護理師的數據但是因為這個預算沒有審查"},{"start":3620.595,"end":3642.191,"text":"所以沒有辦法執行我跟你說我們先看你還有一個叫做放寬護理師實習年限很多護理師在網路上討論說你要怎麼放寬護理師實習年限這件事情你有沒有初步的一個想法你是要怎麼放寬從本來是怎麼樣放寬到如何"},{"start":3643.12,"end":3666.064,"text":"就是我們過去這個護理系畢業之後那麼他要考照所以我們給他一年多的時間那你要改成什麼樣在這個之前就是他如果願意繼續實習那他就可以繼續留下來然後在這個多久以內完成你說放寬嘛多久以內我們當然希望他考上嘛所以就是繼續這個時間的話我們要跟護理界討論"},{"start":3669.025,"end":3685.16,"text":"所以你講出放寬護理師實習年限你還沒跟護理師討論喔我是說要放寬到多久還沒有定案但是這個方向上已經確定你什麼時候跟護理師團體開過會我一直都在開過會我知道我知道我是說什麼時候討論過放寬護理師實習年限上次就已經討論過了討論過了就朝這個方向"},{"start":3691.391,"end":3700.637,"text":"但是你們總該有一個討論是幾到幾吧年限上還沒有確認但是你在會議上提的意見是多久我沒有提哪多久啊我只是說要放寬那對方提的呢因為現在跟護理師聽到的聲音好像不太一樣"},{"start":3713.322,"end":3730.414,"text":"那哪裡不一樣我是說他們是反對有一些護理師團體他們覺得沒有被徵詢到意見另外他們也沒有很贊成放寬因為你應該是要提高留任的比例開源也很重要可是現在很多人是有護理師執照可是不願意執業嘛"},{"start":3732.249,"end":3751.797,"text":"我想這個職業的考量因素很多啦那我們只是讓願意留在這個護理職場的包含這些實習生也是啊也給他機會啊我們可以跟你要一下這個會議記錄嗎你上次跟護理師團體討論然後裡面有包括方寬護理師我們一直有這個招募師也有在跟"},{"start":3752.711,"end":3755.852,"text":"就很多在討論所以他們的意見是什麼就一句話就好了我們請我們這個關於護理的輔助能力這一塊其實是一個比較整體性的討論那有分一些層級那譬如說有護理師的是擔任護理師的工作那護理師我們現在有討論一個叫護理師助理那護理師助理就很像現行的有一個實習護士那這個實習護士就是沒有拿到證照的"},{"start":3780.277,"end":3783.759,"text":"在護理師的督導之下那他現在可以有15個月那這兩個制度要怎麼做一個整合就是說他沒有考上的但是他不用就是說沒有工作但是他做的不是護理工作是護理的輔助工作謝謝最後只問一句話因為這個是之前跟"},{"start":3798.268,"end":3820.602,"text":"邱太仁部長曾經討論過的,白班今天從我們這一屆立委上任陳建仁院長就答應了但當去年年初就已經陳建仁院長就答應了白班今天今年應該就是可以發出來了吧我們現在跟物理界的一個長期的討論是說我們在那個三班戶面筆的獎勵你一定要去顧及到要去白班,現在先這樣做所以白班等於其實是會領到三班當然這個因為公務員"},{"start":3822.977,"end":3846.952,"text":"當時我問百般津貼但他回答是三班戶並比給獎勵所以最後我們到底會不會發百般津貼就這樣而已我們現在的規劃就是已經以這個達標獎勵那多數醫院都已經發給百般津貼了因為夜班已經有津貼了所以他們的達標獎勵款那多數就是發在這個百般的所以你的意思是說你們會改成用這個對達標獎勵"},{"start":3851.634,"end":3861.844,"text":"達標獎勵來取代白斑津貼就我們不去明訂白斑津貼啦就是用護病筆的達標獎勵由醫院去發放他現在都是發放到白斑的身上好謝謝主席謝謝部長好謝謝謝謝陳清輝委員接下來我們請邱輝祿委員"},{"start":3883.939,"end":3905.9,"text":"主席各位委員還有各位這個政府官員大家好那我其實想要針對石部長就是陳金輝委員諮詢那個石部長的部分做一個想法的分享第一件事情就是新進護士薪水真的沒有五萬有的話也只是極端值"},{"start":3907.621,"end":3925.229,"text":"我想如果講新進護士薪水5萬我覺得完全是睜眼說瞎話這是第一點基層護理人員的心聲那第二個呢就是住院整合照護計畫當然我們要納入照服員但是請注意我們在112年的時候我們已經有密戶罪了"},{"start":3925.649,"end":3945.321,"text":"那如果沒有取得護理人員資格的人來執行護理業務就會有密戶罪但是實際的臨床實務上造福源跟護理人員的業務範圍有一些模糊的空間那是誰創造這個模糊空間就是衛福部的函式衛福部的函式針對有些醫療輔助行為有些函式是"},{"start":3946.641,"end":3966.668,"text":"指出要護理人員依據醫師的指示執行但是有些韓式又說照服員可以做這裡有一個模糊空間那我也希望住院整合照護計畫在執行的時候在推動的時候也能夠考慮到照服員跟護理人員之間的職業界限不是單純人力的問題我覺得法規完備也需要去處理這樣子"},{"start":3967.728,"end":3975.559,"text":"好那現在呢第三點呢就是當然就回到我們的主題我們的主題今天我要有請那個衛福部部長"},{"start":3979.971,"end":4004.623,"text":"今天我想要針對部長來就教一個問題就是偏遠地區家庭專科護理師執行醫療輔助行為的釋法性那我想我們都知道偏遠地區其實醫師的人力非常的缺乏所以為了照顧當地的居民去尋找醫師的輔助人力就顯得非常的重要也有這個必要性好那我們也看到衛福部這幾年非常積極的在推動"},{"start":4005.303,"end":4024.623,"text":"家庭專科護理師制度那我想這個制度就是作為偏遠地區醫師輔助人力的一個來源的來源那我想這個方向當然我沒有反對但是有一些家庭專科護理師執行醫療輔助司法性問題值得探究那我想我這邊第一個問題就是"},{"start":4027.126,"end":4037.534,"text":"請問一下家庭專科護理師根據預歷醫療流程來執行醫療輔助行為請問這個釋法性為何就是有沒有違法的疑慮"},{"start":4039.474,"end":4065.101,"text":"我認為是沒有我們都有這個育立醫療流程的那個相關的規範的那個公告都有所以部長覺得家庭專科護理師依據育立醫療流程來執行醫療輔助行為沒有違法性的問題沒有問題好那我在想就是我們的中央主管機關的大家長就是衛福部然後就是部長你如果您都覺得這個問題沒有司法性的問題"},{"start":4066.021,"end":4083.488,"text":"那我覺得醫療機構有可能無所適從而跟著一起違法了而不自知那為什麼因為部長你根本不覺得一個有違法性的一個情境他充滿違法的一個模糊地帶他充滿違法的一個空間"},{"start":4084.788,"end":4107.592,"text":"我就現在一一的來跟部長說明為什麼家庭專科護理師依據預定醫療流程來執行醫療輔助行為其實是有違法的疑慮的那我們先從第一個階段開始說起我們專科護理師在執行醫療輔助行為要有法源那法源是什麼就是專科護理師你要執行醫療輔助行為的前提你要有醫師的指示"},{"start":4108.112,"end":4125.343,"text":"沒有醫師的指示你執行的醫療輔助行為你就會觸犯民醫罪法源依據在護理人員法24條那這邊就提到說醫療輔助行為應該在醫師的指示之下行之好那接著呢我們來看一下為什麼醫師要指示專科護理師去執行醫療輔助行為舉例傷口的換藥為什麼醫師要這麼做"},{"start":4129.045,"end":4144.091,"text":"情境是醫師他會評估病人的需求如果病人有傷口換藥的一個需要的話醫師就會指示專師去執行醫療輔助行為所以醫師他診察完病人之後他指示護理師"},{"start":4144.851,"end":4159.864,"text":"去做醫療輔助行為這段的法源是來自於醫師法第11條的本文讓我們來讀一下本文醫師非親自檢查不得實行治療開給房企所以這段的法源依據在醫師法第11條那我們把這兩個階段合併起來組成一個專科護理師執行醫療輔助行為的三部曲第一部曲醫師會評估病人的需求病人有換藥的需求他"},{"start":4169.572,"end":4191.559,"text":"醫師就會進行第二部曲的動作醫師會指示專科護理師去執行醫療輔助行為專科護理師會進行第三部曲的動作就是在醫師的指示之下會去執行醫療輔助行為那這是一般通常的情形但是我們來講情境B情境B就是有些偏遠地區因為在山之巔海之邊完全沒有醫師的醫療資源"},{"start":4193.2,"end":4211.833,"text":"那如果專科護理師要去執行醫療輔助行為例如說傷口的換藥你要死守著我們剛講的專科護理師執行醫療輔助行為的三部曲的話你沒有醫師何來醫師的親自診查何來醫師的指示那專科護理師如何去執行醫療輔助行為所以這時候呢就給了一個解套的一個空間"},{"start":4212.734,"end":4228.033,"text":"解到的空間就是醫師法第11條的但書這邊提到說如果是偏遠地區那醫師沒辦法親自診察沒有關係那可以用通訊的方式去取代醫師的親自診察那親自診察之後醫師還是要下指示還是要下遺囑給專科護理師去執行醫療輔助行為這是"},{"start":4230.976,"end":4257.665,"text":"情境B那我們現在來看就是本席想請教部長的情境C請問一下專科護理師依據預歷醫療流程執行醫療輔助行為在這個情境當中到底有沒有法源因為我們情境A講的法源就護理人員法24條醫師法第11條情境B講的法源就是護理人員法24條還有那個醫師法第11條的單書那請問一下情境C法源在哪裡"},{"start":4259.326,"end":4273.497,"text":"跟委員說明很佩服您對法規上的熟悉程度不過在護理人員即使不是專科護理師他在醫師的指示之下都可以執行醫療輔助行為"},{"start":4275.731,"end":4291.393,"text":"那麼過去的指示包含了預歷我們在過去臨床上就有這個叫做臨床路徑那麼臨床路徑的就是一種預歷醫療流程的概念所以就是按照"},{"start":4291.893,"end":4304.736,"text":"有一些的這個標準化的照顧模式下那麼醫師先下了這些這個預歷醫療流程或者是臨床入境由醫院所設計請問一下在那個處理的情境處理人員依照這樣的預歷醫療流程或臨床入境去執行並沒有違法之理但是你在打B你沒有掌握我的問題其實真的沒有掌握"},{"start":4316.858,"end":4329.273,"text":"我們來看一下蔡淑鳳師長她怎麼來介紹專科護理師的一個職業範圍她說根據醫院的預立醫療流程醫師不在場的時候專科護理師可以執行低危險的醫療行為這當中你根據預立醫療流程在這個病床"},{"start":4332.977,"end":4361.416,"text":"當下的這個情境其實醫師並沒有對病人去進行進行親自診察也沒有辦法指示專科護理師去執行所謂的預立醫療流程就是早在早在病人的情境發生之前你先把病人的一個情境先預立起來預立起來之後讓專科護理師根據預立醫療流程去執行但是你把這個流程拿到事發的當下去其實根本沒有醫師的診察來介入啊那沒有醫師的診察來介入那這樣不是違反醫師法第11條的規定嗎"},{"start":4362.937,"end":4377.421,"text":"那我們來看一下家庭專科護理師的日常家庭專科護理師的日常這邊提到說他們就是按照預歷醫療流程來問診來做生品來執行超音波來執行心電圖這邊心電圖的執行超音波的執行這裡就充滿滿滿的醫療輔助行為的概念所以我還是要請問一下部長請問一下專科護理師依據預歷醫療流程來執行醫療輔助行為到底有沒有法權"},{"start":4390.384,"end":4408.051,"text":"那你告訴我有法源是哪一條 你就告訴我有法源是哪一條醫療流程同樣的建築在緊急醫療救護法裡面的高級救護技術員緊急醫療救護法就是一個緊急醫療救護法是法律 立法院三途通過的法律但是護理人員所依據的醫療流程並沒有三途通過的法律真的不要硬拗了部長我告訴你這個問題全台灣沒有一個人比我更了解"},{"start":4415.094,"end":4437.188,"text":"因為我研究這個問題已經研究十幾年了我真的可以告訴你專科護理師的職業範圍我一路跟著他們走到現在這件事就是沒有法源你講的緊急醫療救護法有法源就是規範在緊急醫療救護法但是專科護理師根據預歷醫療流程來執行這些醫療輔助業務就是沒有法源不要睜眼說瞎話就是沒有法源我很重要哪裡你指出來啊"},{"start":4440.089,"end":4462.18,"text":"我都可以告訴你秦慶A的法源是醫師法第十一條護理人員法二十四條秦慶B的法源是十一條的單數護理人員法二十四條你告訴我秦慶西的法源在哪裡你告訴我啊你講不出來你現在就當著全國人民的面前告訴我們秦慶西的法源在哪裡就沒有為什麼我會這麼激動因為就沒有我研究了十幾年就沒有"},{"start":4463.66,"end":4488.553,"text":"這個沒有真的就沒有請你告訴我法源在哪裡中華民國的法典六法全書打開請問是哪一條真的沒有法源不要睜眼說瞎話我希望針對這個沒有法源的問題這個法律漏洞的問題你們去填補家庭專科物理師有他推動的必要性我認同但是法源要完備因為法源如果不完備會有什麼問題會有命運罪的問題如果今天專科物理師也好護理人員也好"},{"start":4488.953,"end":4508.745,"text":"他沒有在醫師的指示之下執行醫療輔助行為他會有密護罪你們如果要另辟蹊徑讓他們能夠根據預理醫療流程去執行醫療輔助行為請修法把這個法院的漏洞填補起來更何況你們今年今年積極推動了家庭專科護理師的育成居家護理所的示範計畫法院的依據好嗎"},{"start":4511.767,"end":4514.028,"text":"而我們這個法案的依據是24條護理人員法的24條那第20條裡面就講專科護理師及第7條之一接受專科護理師訓練之後的這個專科護理師呢他可以在這個"},{"start":4527.355,"end":4533.836,"text":"醫療監督下執行的醫療型業務我們有定這個辦法所以你覺得監督兩個字就是法源嗎那我們這個有一個辦法那辦法已經把專科護理師可以執行那個項目已經匡列出來好我告訴你第一你覺得監督兩個字不是你覺得監督兩個字就是等一下你覺得你讓我講你覺得監督兩個字就是法源請問監督的定義是什麼醫師所為的指示指導跟督促"},{"start":4557.02,"end":4573.113,"text":"所謂的監督就是醫師所謂的指示指導跟督促請問一下這六個字當中有育立醫療流程的概念嗎好第二第二第二就算就算專科護理師與醫師監督下執行醫療業務辦法是一個法源好了是一個法源我們勉強認為他是一個法源他是一個法規命令"},{"start":4575.615,"end":4592.843,"text":"法規命令如果抵觸一司法第十一條規定就會違法這是基本的common sense法律的ABC你抵觸的不是一司法第十一條的規定而已你還抵觸了一司法二十八條密罪的規定一司法二十八條密罪規定白紙黑字在這邊請詳讀那我接著講家庭專科護理師你們近年積極的這個推動那你們在事辦計畫裡頭呢"},{"start":4600.547,"end":4624.527,"text":"要求呢居家護理所必須添設這些設備我覺得是應該的我覺得是必要的但是這些設備的添置就曝露出說居家護理所的專科護理師去居家勤進執行業務他其實就是滿滿醫療輔助行為的執行但是卻沒有法源你說的法源預立醫療流程根本沒有法源你講的那一條根本不是法源兩個辦法有魔法授權下的兩個辦法來來來一個來來來來來來來"},{"start":4628.15,"end":4639.101,"text":"這個嘛 這個嘛 請問一下 這個哪裡 哪裡說 你告訴我哪裡說專科護理師依據預歷醫療流程可以執業 你告訴我 5678956789 我已經羅列出來了 五哪一條說專科護理師依據預歷醫療流程可以執業 五哪裡有 六 哪裡有 七 哪裡有"},{"start":4652.762,"end":4672.756,"text":"哪裡有 有啦 第六條說根據育立醫療流程可以開立表單只有說根據育立醫療流程可以開立表單有說根據育立醫療流程可以執行醫療輔助行為嗎請不要睜眼說瞎話了 沒有法源 沒有法源就是沒有法源 你再硬繞一千次 還是沒有法源"},{"start":4675.798,"end":4692.388,"text":"好請問何時能夠把這個法源填補起來法規不完備法律有漏洞請問何時能夠把這個法源其實就是修法補法源而已有這麼困難嗎有一些認知上的落差啦沒有認知上的落差沒有完備完全沒有完備"},{"start":4693.328,"end":4715.853,"text":"我們過去執行這麼長的時間從來沒有發生過違規或者是法院的這些判決的事因為衛福部長就是完全欠缺法律的認知啊所以在你的眼裡看起來就是沒有違法的情勢啊但事實上就是欠缺法源你們完全指不出來法源我已經努力出來啊你說有兩部執法好來這部執法我已經努力出來56789請問哪裡告訴你專科護理師依據預理醫療流程可以執行醫療輔助行為"},{"start":4722.415,"end":4723.596,"text":"請告訴我比如說這個你們就修法就好了嘛檢查檢驗這個本來就是醫師要開的已經授權了授權什麼這個第一條啊比如說非親入性的這些本來是醫師的範圍"},{"start":4742.625,"end":4763.283,"text":"是低風險 受選之下是專科護理師的職業範圍根據副表一跟副表二可以執行40樣的醫療輔助行為問題是前提要有醫師的指示啊沒有醫師的指示你要按照醫療流程你就要有法源啊就是找不到法源 師長真的找不到法源專科護理師他有當然一個國際上跟"},{"start":4763.783,"end":4771.512,"text":"大家在醫療照顧需求的講話是公平的所以這個我們法規已經完備了說起法院我講最後一件事情那個護士的實習要點其實也是行政規則如果你們要透過護士的"},{"start":4780.643,"end":4790.569,"text":"的實習要點去擴展非具護理人員資格的人來臨床上執行業務的話那你們把這個法源放在行政規則裡頭我個人認為用行政規則的位階來處理這個事也抵觸了護理人員法的規定因為護理人員法說要取得證書的人才可以充護理人員但是你們現在讓不具護理人員資格的人就用你們的行政規則就可以在臨床上執業我就問一句嘛請問一下"},{"start":4809.68,"end":4826.389,"text":"病人的安全你置於何地病人的安全沒有取得護理人員資格的人你讓他去執業請問病人安全置於何地你就只是因為人力荒你找不到人力你沒有辦法用這些留任的獎金的方式或者是用一些人力改善的方式你就用這種"},{"start":4827.529,"end":4845.584,"text":"奇奇怪怪的方式去讓護理人員回流回流的不是合格的護理人員我相信這個基層護理人員是沒有人可以接受的你一來維持一定程的健康你二來貶低護理人員專業的價值沒有具備護理人員的資格就可以投入職場請問一下我們辛苦去考國考到底是為了什麼"},{"start":4850.008,"end":4875.644,"text":"你如果用行政規則的方式去放寬非具護理人員資格人投入職場行政部本身衛福部本身就是帶頭違法其實衛福部帶頭違法的地方比比皆是我今天只是揭露一樣到兩樣而已好那再請這個衛福部呢能夠去這個填補漏洞給我們專科護理師一個完備的一個法律制度避免他們在命運罪的邊緣遊走好那"},{"start":4876.55,"end":4883.092,"text":"以上說明謝謝好謝謝謝謝協和律委員謝謝部長接下來請黃秀芳委員謝謝主席我們請部長有請部長"},{"start":4902.377,"end":4917.129,"text":"部長辛苦了我昨天跟呂次 呂次長有參加我們彰化縣長照這個社福大樓長照多功能的這個社福大樓的這個啟用那當然很多長輩對於我們的這個潛在基礎建設"},{"start":4920.471,"end":4931.275,"text":"補助的長照大樓社福大樓都非常的滿意唯一不滿意的就是說它的空間還是有限可以容納的民眾還是有限想要進去的民眾他們後面"},{"start":4935.856,"end":4958.135,"text":"就是要還要在後面排隊所以這個不論是在我們的這個多功能的這個大樓裡面或者是在社區這個關懷據點或者是長昭溪據點都有這樣的一個問題就是很多長輩他想要到這個社區就近的這個關懷據點或長昭據點那因為礙於空間的關係所以也都要排隊"},{"start":4958.955,"end":4965.8,"text":"所以我不知道說未來部長針對這一部分可以怎麼樣再去做一些改善"},{"start":4968.458,"end":4995.628,"text":"所以委員是說那個空間不夠是不是就是還有很多長輩想要進去嗎對啊而且現在的社區社區的那個社區自己經營的關懷據點也好或者是長照西據點那空間真的都非常的小有的就是就近有一些公共的這個場域那這個場域可能只能容納二三十個人那也許這個社區還有很多長輩"},{"start":4996.528,"end":5011.701,"text":"他想要進來可是礙於空間的關係就是沒辦法所以我覺得說未來是不是有可能每個社區可以再多增加一個點不知道可不可以朝這個方向去努力就是我們再來"},{"start":5013.042,"end":5034.54,"text":"這個了解一下 如果是這個需求上還不夠這個容量還不夠的話 那也許我們也可以來研究看看現在有一些閒置的公共空間 看如何來這個轉型讓這個長輩呢 他希望的活動的空間能夠有我覺得這個委員的建議我們來調查一下"},{"start":5037.582,"end":5063.308,"text":"確實有這樣的一個需求我們一開始是以一鄉鎮一個長照開始做設計然後開始再進步到說以一個學區所以我們也是一步一步在一直在長資源那如果現在到每一個學區都有了但是這個空間不夠太小那要多設一個我們來研究看看調查一下看哪些地方有這樣的需求"},{"start":5064.909,"end":5090.911,"text":"謝謝謝謝部長接下來我想請教就是在2024年監委那個王又嶺監委有針對衛福部的這個長照2.0有做一些調查報告那當時有特別提到就是說我們的這個縣市的住宿市機構還有失智的這個照護資源供應供給不足那接下來就是說我們也看到這個長照的服務的目標"},{"start":5091.731,"end":5115.635,"text":"群體推估參數衛福實況那我們看到就是說在長照2.0可能我們比較著重在輕度跟中度的這個族群那反而是重度的這個族群長輩可能這個資源比較不夠那我們也期待就是說2026年的這個長照3.0針對這個重度的這些群組是不是可以再加強"},{"start":5116.815,"end":5134.366,"text":"給更多的一個資源而且我覺得說這些重度的這個民眾這個家庭更需要政府的資源因為有一些他可能也許需要我們的這個這個造福的這個資源可是他可能"},{"start":5135.507,"end":5152.333,"text":"有一些這個資源不是可以這麼到位所以我希望就是說針對這個長照3.0已經開始那這些針對重度的這些長輩或者有需求的這些重度的民眾那是不是政府的資源能夠更加的投入"},{"start":5153.493,"end":5171.82,"text":"跟委員大概說明一下確實我們剛剛有提到我們現在長照使用對象裡面大概只有兩層是重度者所以對於這個重度的他的這個長照因為大概就兩個地方一個是素素是機構那另外一個就是居家他只能大概是這兩個"},{"start":5173.18,"end":5196.552,"text":"重度這個住宿室的話我們現在看起來是這樣整體的量是夠但是有區域不平衡的問題像有些區域上的就比較難長出這個住宿室機構所以這個我們會繼續來努力另外也去這個我們可能接下來會朝向去提高這個住宿型機構的補助然後也減輕民眾的負擔也鼓勵有這樣的機構可以長出"},{"start":5198.473,"end":5226.427,"text":"那第二個就是去強化那個重度居家的長照服務希望看能不能夠優先讓這些長照重度的家庭能夠用到比較多的居家重度的通常跟醫療的需求也會有所以強化居家的醫療跟長照的結合這也是另外在長照3.0裡面特別需要去強化包含夜間跟假日期間的這些重度"},{"start":5227.367,"end":5249.251,"text":"我希望未來我們長照3.0應該是針對重度的這個部分應該要再加強另外部長我想請教就是說我最近接到一個個案就是一個96歲的一個阿嬤她原本身體狀況都非常的好頭腦也很清楚四肢也都很靈活可能長輩其實96歲其實身體狀況急轉直下她原本是獨居"},{"start":5255.872,"end":5273.862,"text":"家裡面的人原本他的小孩就沒有住在一起這個長輩他自己生活自己都還OK那現在身體狀況可能有一些就是有一點點狀況那他的小孩想說要幫他申請這個長照幫他煮一個中餐"},{"start":5275.44,"end":5296.316,"text":"那我們的照管人員是不是會去家裡面去評估通常是這樣子嘛 對不對就是會去家裡面去做評估那評估是不會過 但是沒過啦評估之後是沒有過因為這個照管人員說這個阿嬤頭腦清楚 四肢靈活她自己還可以煮飯那所以這個有一個狀況"},{"start":5301.451,"end":5322.479,"text":"後來他們就說可是這個阿嬤身體狀況是一天一天就是不是那麼好所以他們還是希望希望能夠請到這個幫他這個我們的服務然後幫他煮個中餐這樣子那就有人就教他就是說如果照管人員來這個跟你做訪問的時候要記一下啦"},{"start":5325.899,"end":5355.619,"text":"要記一下 保證你會知道嗎如果他原本可能四肢很靈活可以走路的你就記一下 記說你沒辦法走路他問你 他問A你就答B所以我會覺得說有必要這樣子嗎就是說如果這個阿嬤96歲那身體狀況確實就是不如以前那有必要叫阿嬤就是說你記一下這個照管人員來訪問的時候你就假裝一下我覺得沒必要這樣子吧"},{"start":5356.019,"end":5376.573,"text":"部長針對這個個案你會如果是你的話你會怎麼處理這個跟委員在確認您說的這個是一個那個獨居的長者是不是他的小孩沒有跟他住一起沒有住一起嘛所以這個現在是符合我們那個獨老我們現在有兩塊一個是這個長照針對主要是失能者的照顧"},{"start":5377.373,"end":5395.554,"text":"另外在長者的社區服務的部分我們現在有一個獨老計畫在推動也就是今年開始會做送餐會有送餐的服務如果他不到私能沒有落入到長照服務對象但是他又獨居"},{"start":5396.575,"end":5415.929,"text":"小孩沒有住一起這個就落入我們的獨老定義那過去我們的獨老服務是先針對中低收入戶而已就是比較弱勢的但是今年開始因為我們有特別預算預注了62億所以我們會專門發展所有的65歲以上的獨老者我們都希望納入到我們的服務範圍"},{"start":5417.41,"end":5435.912,"text":"那優先會從75歲以上開始所以剛剛這90幾歲的阿嬤這個應該很快就會得到我們的照顧好我希望是如此不需要去假裝沒有假裝說他身體可能有非常嚴重或者是他答不出來我覺得有時候"},{"start":5436.713,"end":5455.143,"text":"可能有這個需求那如果都已經九十幾歲了其實我覺得確實可以應該可以得到我們政府一個比較好的一個照顧啦所以部長把這個最基層的這個問題跟你講就是說在基層會碰到這樣的一個狀況也讓你知道因為我們現在優先是針對75歲以上的長者先去關懷房事"},{"start":5463.448,"end":5477.486,"text":"然後關懷訪視之後就會去做評估看看他的需求是什麼然後再去連接後續看看是送餐服務啦還是關懷啦還是需要緊急救援裝置啦對這些獨居的長者這是我們的重點"},{"start":5478.447,"end":5496.504,"text":"那接下來我想請教就是說部長你知道賴總統在上個月有特色一位也是阿嬤了90幾歲那他也照顧他的小孩50幾年所以我們就可以看到就是說長照這個部分針對重度"},{"start":5498.005,"end":5523.118,"text":"針對重度的這個家庭確實需要政府更多的一個資源來協助那避免會有這樣的一個長照杯葛所以我想請教部長針對這部分那未來你們怎麼再去做一個篩檢剛剛有特別提到重度的這個家庭他可能進到這個長照可能就只有兩成左右那其他的部分你們要怎麼再去做一個篩檢就是說這些"},{"start":5525.499,"end":5540.688,"text":"主動篩檢那高負荷的這個家庭是不是要優先趕快來協助對 這個個案真的是很遺憾那所以我們也檢討強化了我們在這個社安網裡面的出篩啦"},{"start":5541.548,"end":5558.702,"text":"這些社安網裡面的服務人員網絡人員我們去強化他們的這個教育訓練去能夠極少的去辨識這個高負荷高風險的這些家庭照顧者然後導入資源因為我們現在在長照3.0裡面也是要在更多元的"},{"start":5559.302,"end":5585.332,"text":"這個家庭照顧者的支持方案包含這個據點還有這個服務的內容包含喘息或專業服務的教導等等這一些那麼特別是那個喘息服務那個導入進去我想會朝這幾個方向來做最重要就是我們會從那個初篩裡面去強化能夠早一點察覺到這一些個案我希望就是說主動篩檢"},{"start":5587.193,"end":5603.248,"text":"不是市衛福部或地方政府大家就是主動篩檢那找出這個高負荷的這個家庭因為確實如果長期這樣照顧確實真的壓力還蠻大的而且經濟應該我覺得都會出問題對啊好麻煩謝謝謝謝黃委員謝謝黃學光委員接下來請邱振軍委員"},{"start":5618.325,"end":5619.976,"text":"主席好啊我們請石部長請石部長"},{"start":5624.625,"end":5647.154,"text":"主委好部長好我看你們今天這個報告講了很多那有做什麼但我看完只有一個感覺你們現在是在講投入不是在講結果那我想今天招委特別安排這個案子就是希望我們要誠實面對偏鄉跟原鄉醫療的這個還有我們長照的結構性問題那今天談偏鄉醫療我就用苗栗的現況來說"},{"start":5648.755,"end":5673.44,"text":"南莊、三灣、斯坦、泰安是四個鄉鎮有三個共同的問題就是偏遠、高齡、醫療可進性不足泰安鄉更是我們原住民鄉鎮也是你們原住民健康法應該最優先照顧的地方我先講幾個事實泰安鄉是僅僅醫療資源不足的地區醫療高度依賴這個IDS的計畫來支撐"},{"start":5676.241,"end":5698.41,"text":"目前多數居民就醫需要跨鄉鎮到頭份或苗栗市甚至跑到台中去那你們的報告裡面說IDS一年服務幾十萬人次那我請教部長這幾十萬人次裡面有多少比例是夜間急診有多少是成功及時處理還是絕大部分都只是拿這個慢性病的這個門診"},{"start":5701.377,"end":5715.83,"text":"在IDS還有這個醫事室也有一些這個醫療站的補助或者是那個急救責任醫院的補助裡面他就包含了夜間跟假日的緊急醫療服務詳細的數字我們在提供給委員"},{"start":5718.972,"end":5736.736,"text":"在泰安這個地方我們這個也是用公務預算去補助應該是大千醫院去承接的那個我不希望看到這個是很好的一個數字我們需要了解是說我們這個計畫到底有救了多少人這個才是重點對不對"},{"start":5738.937,"end":5762.133,"text":"那另外我們醫療這個偏鄉醫療的主要問題就是距離嘛那再來看南江山灣跟斯坦那他到頭份我們要意識大概車程大概至少要45分鐘到一個小時以上那對高齡者來說這不是距離是門檻那你們有沒有統計過平均就醫這個的交通時間偏鄉居民每年自費的交通成本是多少"},{"start":5763.314,"end":5791.584,"text":"有沒有去了解過這個好像我們就沒有這個方面的數字好那你說我們有培養醫師嘛有補助那我再問一個最直接的就是這四個鄉鎮有多少是常駐專科醫師心臟內科有幾位急診醫師有幾位這個我們查一下之後再提供給委員對不對所以我覺得這個應該是我覺得數字應該是不好看那這代表你們政策只是培養人不是留下人"},{"start":5792.56,"end":5814.072,"text":"你培養了人之後他們可能過來有一些的誘因那他達到目的之後他就走了啊對不對所以我們就整個這個你們就一直要去循環這個甚至沒有人來那原住民這個民族的健康法是要縮短這個醫療的落差健康的落差那但現在我們看到的現實是"},{"start":5815.353,"end":5838.94,"text":"集中症要外送醫療靠巡迴體系是沒有建立的那這樣的醫療條件有縮短我覺得這只是一個口號而已嘛那原住民第二這個健康法的第二條明文規定中央主管機關應指定專責單位辦理那原住民的民族健康事務是遊衛福部這個專責單位到底是誰"},{"start":5841.781,"end":5863.573,"text":"有嗎有是誰跟委員說明一下就是說我們在推動這個這個原鄉的這個醫療確實在苗栗來講就這個每10萬人口的醫師數也好或者病常數也好當然是相對那真正負責任的是誰所以我們要把它再提高那原住民族的這個健康"},{"start":5864.714,"end":5885.934,"text":"這個餘命的落差其實有在縮短啦103年的時候大概落差10歲啦那現在113年的統計是落差大概7歲所以這個有在縮短中有在努力縮短中那至於這個專責單位啊我們現在在我們這個部內呢就是這個護理及健康照護師裡面有特別的這個3D理導課在負責"},{"start":5888.737,"end":5904.138,"text":"那醫事是管這個IDS計畫嘛對不對IDS是健保的計畫對健保的嘛那護理及健康照護是這個長照3.0的嘛國際醫術是管這個原住民健康促進計畫"},{"start":5905.279,"end":5924.799,"text":"那部長你本人雖是這個原住民族健康政策會的召集人他只是一個諮詢單位不是執行單位嘛那現在我在看有沒有一個人一個專責的人在負責這個我有專責的他現在就是在這個叫做這個照務這個護理及健康照務室裡面"},{"start":5925.58,"end":5943.505,"text":"那我們會希望讓這個師能夠扮演更多這個原住民族健康的這個政策的這個任務當然執行面的話需要跨師署的合作政策的部分我們有智庫在設置在這個國衛院裡面的原住民族健康的研究"},{"start":5944.525,"end":5947.451,"text":"那什麼時候 有沒有一個具體時間我們現在在進行這個主改 那麼這個組織法也已經在這個他不是已經有法律了嗎"},{"start":5957.588,"end":5981.535,"text":"不是有這條法案有有有 那像我們在調整在組織法調整的過程當中去強化應該在這個配合這個立法院的這個我們組織法的修訂的你送了嗎已經送了 已經在那個司法法制這個聯席會議上已經審完出了委員會那這個後續就是等這個協商我希望這個盡快啦 好不好 盡快落實"},{"start":5982.595,"end":5998.911,"text":"那接下來部長我再請問你食藥署蔡淑珍副署長在關稅協定簽訂之後公開表示針對美牛絞肉內臟跟降低這個萊劑標準的重新評估那重啟評估是因為為了應驗台美關稅協定這個證明就是說這項作業的出發點是經貿補償而不是國人飲食習慣改變我說的沒錯吧我們在調整這個是這個嗎"},{"start":6007.689,"end":6026.968,"text":"應該是說在我們這一次重新再調整這個相關的規範主要是跟國際接軌那麼參考了這個國際的標準然後再重新計算我們過去的計算公式上不同的有沒有因應是不是因為這個關稅的問題來調整"},{"start":6030.353,"end":6036.695,"text":"這個本來就在我們的這個期程裡頭在進行所以這個到底國際的結果是怎樣那依照食安法我們衛福部有責任這個台灣人愛吃內臟的習慣嘛別的國家是沒有不太吃這個所以我們是不是應該進行獨立評估既然風險存在那這個"},{"start":6052.739,"end":6078.174,"text":"你現在說不是因為這個關稅的問題那你為什麼不選擇對國人最安全的現行標準那跟委員說明確實如您提到的這個內臟的部分我們有獨立的評估就是說按照這個CODES的這個殘留標準然後在國人的飲食習慣上去做推估來驗證它是不是安全所以你不會去照國際標準就對了你會甚至比國際標準更嚴格嗎"},{"start":6081.079,"end":6103.774,"text":"我們現在是按照國際標準來做驗證那看看國人的習慣上會不會超出這個標準那看起來是OK所以我們就可以對齊國際標準所以你認為是我們台灣國人的飲食習慣喜歡吃內臟所以內臟的部分它是符合國際標準的對那我們之前限定的標準為什麼要限這麼低"},{"start":6105.295,"end":6121.528,"text":"當時候的計算方式假設的不同假設條件不同那現在假設是什麼現在假設的條件調整之後就是說你不太可能這個比如說以這個腎跟肝來講你不會同時一天都到同樣的最高劑量"},{"start":6122.662,"end":6143.191,"text":"那個是會有互相取代性的你不會同時吃這麼多所以我覺得那個設置那個設定的條件不一樣就是說既然是你不想你這樣講我認為為了國人的健康我希望你把嚴格這個標準從嚴來認定你不要用這個國際的最低標準來認定是的好不好一定是國人的健康優先"},{"start":6143.951,"end":6172.501,"text":"那再來我再問就是我們部立苗栗醫院跟這個我們台中榮總在去年11月4號這個簽署這個醫療NOU當時的這個色目標很清楚是要補足苗栗專科人力與急重症的這個量能嘛那目前請問一下目前中榮實際派駐部苗的醫師人數是多少實際上的人數我要再確認一下再跟委員這個回報部長就沒有關係苗栗啊"},{"start":6173.958,"end":6191.779,"text":"一直在關心那是多少人力哪些專科每週急診那是固定派駐還是支援性這個輪診對不對是部長我們來聊一下之後還是要到高梅莉再走一走好我去看看"},{"start":6192.399,"end":6207.706,"text":"對啊那我跟你講啦目前據我所知他現在醫師好像還沒有開始派所以這部分啦不要說這個NOU簽了之後好像只是一個形式上那我們希望更盡快來落實這個部分"},{"start":6208.346,"end":6226.414,"text":"那當然我也希望部長來做媒介啦不單單只是這個中榮其他的各大醫療院所也可以請部長來協助為我們苗栗這個醫療能夠增加一些這個量能增加一些專科的醫師這樣好嗎好那另外最後一個問題最後一個問題就是我們"},{"start":6228.955,"end":6245.826,"text":"布苗嘛 我聽到我們院長前陣子有到苗栗去就是說我們這個集中跟大樓的栽標在2026年4月就要開始那6月要動工 這個有確定嗎這個已經核定了核定了 你確定要標的出去"},{"start":6248.154,"end":6261.225,"text":"上次流標20次耶所以你們的金額到底有沒有有調整那萬一再標不出去你們怎麼辦再放個10年沒有沒有一定要讓他所以是不是有沒有這個我問三個問題啦照片如果流標有沒有備案"},{"start":6267.655,"end":6292.717,"text":"因為我們已經重新調整這個標案的內容應該是可以那萬一預算不夠我們有提高預算的準備嗎對有嘛我們就是要讓它做成好那這個供期如果延誤我們目前有沒有什麼一個替代的醫療的這個量能的這個備案我們不希望它延誤我們希望讓它按照這個期程進行萬一勒"},{"start":6294.022,"end":6318.959,"text":"不要有外遇 從2010年講到現在2010年就啟動這個案子一直到2021年重新再啟動一次所以已經你看16年了對不對 人生有幾個16年這16年有多少遺憾你知道嗎是是 我們這一次有絕對的決心要把這個事情完成好啦 部長您應該多關心一下苗栗好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝謝謝邱委員 謝謝邱正軍委員"},{"start":6322.984,"end":6342.483,"text":"在此宣告待會六個響委員質詢完畢後休息十分鐘現在請蘇慶泉委員發言好謝謝主席我請部長跟國建署署長請市部長請"},{"start":6344.72,"end":6364.727,"text":"主委好,柏柳,現在新來的這個委員一個比一個還要堅持,看你要怎麼辦。要看委員拜託。我先剛剛講的那個專科副理事,我要這邊補充一下。"},{"start":6365.848,"end":6375.254,"text":"那個在第八屆的時候改的就改婦理人權法本來要立一個專章或是一個專法結果不可行啦"},{"start":6376.175,"end":6399.313,"text":"那現在後來就改婦理人員法就改兩三條所以那個時候就改兩三條之後就從負面表列變成正面表列那婦理 專科婦理是很高興他們就這十幾年來走得很好啊現在要做專法"},{"start":6401.877,"end":6426.93,"text":"我想是不太可能,邱委員該檢視,我看他,常委員有沒有討論我是說最多是專章,用一個專章還是說處理這件法來修,修得更完善一點也是一個方法所以讀到這你的頭痛好,我們今天要講那個原住民法,原住民醫療法"},{"start":6427.97,"end":6437.693,"text":"我們原住民的平靜壽命,我們盧宣毅主席一直在關心,就是說他這樣...你收起來,你也收起來,你也上來我國電室的..."},{"start":6445.745,"end":6460.413,"text":"他們的VC肝啊什麼的都沒有進步啊他們的原住民平均壽命比我們平地少了7歲多嘛那這7歲多到底現在第一有沒有改善啊那你們到底做什麼"},{"start":6463.047,"end":6476.139,"text":"其實跟委員說明我們真的是很努力在縮短那如果比較其他的國家的落差其實我們做的不會太差啦當然這中間還有很多需要"},{"start":6478.041,"end":6497.038,"text":"跟紐西蘭的原民、澳洲、美國這裡有原住民的國家來相比這個落差我們做的是還好啦但是當然還是應該要更努力的來縮短這中間當然從幾個原因嘛從它的死因分布"},{"start":6498.579,"end":6522.862,"text":"我們一般國人的這個死因的這個ranking來看有幾個比較不同的地方第一個是癌症的這個分佈會不太一樣第二個是這個交通事故意外傷害這個在國人死因都是在5名以外但是在原鄉地區是比較高的所以這個事故傷害這個是比較高"},{"start":6524.202,"end":6546.722,"text":"在癌症的裡面也可以看得到他的口腔癌跟肝癌的比例也是比較高所以他的確實有跟一般不一樣所以我們才需要去成立專責的研究單位我們在國衛院裡面那麼去國衛院做什麼 你老婆做什麼你們到底有做什麼事啊"},{"start":6549.98,"end":6574.804,"text":"國內做很多事情那就這個援助民族健康的部分第一個最重要就是建立它的資料庫健康資料庫這個是最重要把這個援助民的相關的疾病的型態還有它的流行病學把它建立起來所以前幾年都在大概建這個資料庫我們主席主席魏延湘就公共衛生所主任都在幾十人都在拚這個"},{"start":6579.206,"end":6604.964,"text":"他長期服務偏鄉啦 跟蘇爾園一樣啦平地的那些感染啊 鼻屍肝啊 酗酒的這個還有一些感染症 事實上平地已經已經比較少了 像膝肝已經排除了那原住民這邊 因為肝病的死亡還是偏高嘛國健署你到底有做什麼 我問你到底有做什麼"},{"start":6607.654,"end":6623.87,"text":"報告委員其實我們原住民的BC肝篩檢的涵蓋率其實是高於全國的平均我們的涵蓋率大概是75%然後全國是61%那我們原住民的慢性肝病跟肝硬化的標準死亡率其實也從111年的每10萬人口52.1下降到112年的39.5"},{"start":6629.395,"end":6647.712,"text":"所以其實在整個照顧上篩檢然後跟整個標準化死亡率其實都有在進步當中那我們也會再持續關注原住民區相關的醫療照顧服務屏東有八個原鄉 也算台灣最多的那譬如說從牡丹不要只講牡丹玩很好玩 牡丹那邊生病"},{"start":6654.724,"end":6670.657,"text":"到東港安泰要96分鐘96分鐘那你們台北市的居民不舒服6分鐘就可以到達你想要就醫的地方一天一天的救這麼多"},{"start":6671.843,"end":6685.96,"text":"所以那個事實上,我都解決了,它的路程就是這樣所以,這個交通跟這個時間是第一個天然的障礙這個保證你有什麼想法嗎?"},{"start":6688.303,"end":6710.82,"text":"你很不可以說這樣繼續下去,不是這樣,繼續沒進步啦屏東是這樣就是因為屏東很狹長,真的很長的,從南到北那資源多數集中在屏北啦,靠屏東是這樣資源多數集中在屏北,所以屏南確實是一個比較資源"},{"start":6713.021,"end":6735.506,"text":"少的地方 三個主要醫院我們一直在挹注希望大家用分工合作的方式 區域聯訪主要的南門醫院 恆春基督教醫院跟我們自己的部立醫院所以南門醫院讓它主要發展在外科為主這個基督教醫院我們就主要讓它在內兒科的部分內科的部分"},{"start":6738.727,"end":6765.067,"text":"這個心血管我們現在在我們的恆春醫院也要設心導管很認真 做心導管嘛 跟你合作的嘛心導管嘛另外再上來一點我們在那個訪療 也是所以我們一路希望用接力式的都是有一些責任醫院來提升這個救命的服務用接力式的方式來"},{"start":6766.488,"end":6784.726,"text":"還有他的衛生所衛生所的配備還好但是如果那個什麼診療站就分的診療站那個設備就很簡陋了對那一直想說要加強那縣政府都公共的事實上我想要出來就要出一間也是要衛福部啦"},{"start":6785.507,"end":6798.279,"text":"衛生部有在寬列預算嗎另外一個就是這張是長照其實我們在衛生所也在強化也把衛生所的醫療資源用醫學中心的任務"},{"start":6802.743,"end":6814.512,"text":"就去前進這裡的偏鄉嘛所以像我講的牡丹現在就義大去支援嘛那高一的支援那也下來了那個地方所以我們也是用這個醫學中心來補儲支援這個衛生所"},{"start":6818.211,"end":6832.881,"text":"那你現在在那個造物師裡面有設一個科在管這一塊嘛那一直有人講說那個層級太低啦是不是把它升作處啦還是什麼"},{"start":6835.609,"end":6863.28,"text":"不然你會想辦法我們會一個科長怎麼去指揮其他的人誰會有師長在的有師長師長是有在做的主要是說我們未來這個在主改之後我們會讓這個師擔負更多的這個原住民主健康的政策擬定的任務會讓讓他投入更多的人力跟資源這樣所以你要說到要做到你"},{"start":6865,"end":6879.307,"text":"那個原住民的平均壽命73點多嘛 我會記一下有在減到嗎 有沒有在增加就是這個落差在縮短啦 以前差10歲啦跟全國漁民差10歲啦 現在是差7歲"},{"start":6882.908,"end":6906.127,"text":"所以希望能夠,因為我在巖鄉也看到一些老人家壽命也有到九十幾歲的,看了都很高興所以他不是沒有那個條件,也不用講說他們的體質應該都可以九十幾歲都可以到達的,所以應該是要"},{"start":6907.088,"end":6930.455,"text":"公共衛生的部分還有我們照護的部分包括長照的部分都應該好因為像國健署就是六癌篩檢因為現在四個變六個六癌篩檢要加強啊原鄉離山地離島原鄉你的醫療上來就是你的得症啦在大都會裡面有什麼好出來的每天就衝"},{"start":6934.273,"end":6956.3,"text":"每個人的門庭弱勢,每個人都搞得很漂亮,不需要你的什麼挹注嘛。這都會區的人,他的保險要多,經濟力要強。現在台北市就醫那麼方便,用的醫療每人平均每年發揮的醫療,台中市也差不多啦,都用到偏鄉的兩倍三倍嘛。"},{"start":6957.318,"end":6981.493,"text":"你有算過錢嘛 你知道嗎所以你偏鄉做得好 離島做得好你就是好的伯娘啦讓你病得好 你就能出生了啦搞定婦女 你就得天下啦好不好 伯娘 加油啦好 謝謝蘇委員 繼續努力謝謝蘇信學委員 謝謝部長接下來請廖偉祥委員"},{"start":6998.155,"end":7018.505,"text":"謝謝主席 請石部長請石部長部長好部長好部長我想要先請教幾個關於這個健康幣的問題首先是想要先請教一下健康幣你們預計使用的項目是用公務預算支出還是用基金預算"},{"start":7020.187,"end":7032.36,"text":"我們目前的設計上就是我們的公務預算是做這個平台的維護那真正這個幣是跟這個民間的企業單位合作所以我們沒有發這個現金的這種幣"},{"start":7035.604,"end":7042.552,"text":"所以也有用這個基金的部分嗎?就是一部分公務一部分基金嗎?沒有基金主要就是在建構那個資訊平台OKOK那其次我想要請教一下目前APP設計的進度跟這個兌換平台的設計已經完成了嗎?"},{"start":7054.327,"end":7071.526,"text":"我們現在有兩個機制一個是祭典祭典的話我們是搭載我們現行的健保的這個健康存摺以既有的健康存摺這個平台去擴充裡面就未來就會有一個健康幣專區"},{"start":7072.987,"end":7088.914,"text":"把你從事的這些健康行為包含打疫苗啦這個做癌篩啦等這個我等一下會問到因為你們原本有一個APP嘛對對對就在那個APP阿另外一個是國健署的這個Health Go這是原本的國健署的APP"},{"start":7089.614,"end":7106.6,"text":"那現在就是健康幣會搭載它這個所以有Housego也會有健康幣然後你們的健康存摺也會有應該是這樣健康存摺上面是積分的累計因為這裡面有一些個人資料所以不拿來我們等一下再討論這個部分因為今天主要就是要跟你討論這個政策細節"},{"start":7108.661,"end":7126.931,"text":"所以那你們現在目前有預計說合作的商家有多少預計每年會指引多少預算啦那財務結構有完成了嗎具體有跟哪一些商家目前有在我們跟幾大超商都有在洽接他們也都展現了相當的這個合作意願這樣"},{"start":7127.751,"end":7147.174,"text":"OK所以聽起來好像還是很模糊的初步的階段是不是是嗎部長因為你們曾經是承諾說4月要如期上線啦但是現在好像還有很多細節還在洽談中會不會延期應該是這麼說就是我們原本是希望這個是獨立上線"},{"start":7148.015,"end":7175.13,"text":"那但是這個之前呢也有委員 向昌清委員也在指教說這個政府有好多個幣包含這個文化幣啦 客家幣啦 健康幣希望整合所以這個行政院呢 院長也有指示希望朝這個方向所以我們現在會搭配整個這個整合方案來推動所以期程上我們可以往後延所以你確定會往後延了嗎不可能4月上限"},{"start":7176.39,"end":7204.926,"text":"因為的確這裡面有很多細節到現在好像還是很初步還需要去整合的階段那在上線之前因為我目前在網路上能夠收集到的資訊也有限就想要先請教一下部長你們在推動健康幣的政策的時候是不是也有考慮到公衛的三段五級的概念對有嗎但是因為根據媒體報導你們是說透過篩檢可以換幣但是他們在公衛政策上就我們的理解的分類他是屬於第二段第三級"},{"start":7205.706,"end":7223.373,"text":"就是中間那個部分所以我是想問說想要跟部長討論是你是不是應該把這個政策理念用公共把它去重新檢討有沒有可能不要把它放在第三級而是從第一級就開始健康促進的部分跟委員說明我們也有在考量跟這個"},{"start":7224.293,"end":7246.578,"text":"穿戴式裝飾結合包含那個運動走路一天走多少步把它納入也是可以基點沒有錯因為其實我想你們應該也有去做一些國際偵測的研究像新加坡的健康促進局它還有一個全國步數挑戰它後面還有拓展深度旅遊的健康計畫然後像台北的這個YouSport"},{"start":7246.938,"end":7268.706,"text":"台北樂運動的這個計畫所以其實我們最主要就是說再跟你討論這個就是說你們應該再往前提然後把前面這一段健康促進把它放到很重要的一個比較重要的一個角色其實根本來說我們希望結合的是生活型態就是那個生活習慣的改變所以這裡面包含這個運動一定會在裡頭"},{"start":7270.867,"end":7291.786,"text":"那因为我们现在的这个健康存折就是可以把跟运动表已经可以结合在一起了所以这个可以计算进来那另外还有像那个生活形态的评估我们也会把它纳入到这个健康币里面所以你这里就牵扯到运动的部分了所以我想问那"},{"start":7292.506,"end":7306.832,"text":"那我想問說你這樣子跟運動幣會不會有重疊疊床架屋的部分那這部分你沒有去跟運動部對接去討論嗎因為這樣會不會有不會就是說我們是累積點數啦並不是發錢出去所以你運動就累積的點數那累積的點數之後呢再去換成"},{"start":7314.975,"end":7329.512,"text":"健康幣去做其他的這個折抵比如說他未來在超商我們跟合作的超商就可以去折抵折扣買東西的時候就可以有折扣大概是這樣去折抵這樣子跟現在運動幣不會有重疊的地方嗎"},{"start":7330.112,"end":7356.904,"text":"因為運動幣目前是他是他是發出來啊對對對沒錯但是他是發出來可是你去做了這件事情之後他們兩者之間那我們未來的合作是他拿了這個運動幣去做的這個運動的活動可以來累積健康幣所以就變成一個生態循環然後拿了健康幣之後呢那麼再去換運動幣可以嗎可以再換回去運動幣嗎譬如說我們再跟一些運動業者"},{"start":7359.066,"end":7383.423,"text":"合作他就可以換他的這個門票入場的折扣這樣對所以其實我也想要跟部長分享就是說因為其實健康幣你們在規劃的時候不要太封閉不要說好像你只能夠做什麼事如果今天你做了就像你剛說的因為我健康幣是我先做了一個動行為我可以累積這個credit變成一個可能是健康幣那你的健康幣就應該讓他可以更廣泛的運用在"},{"start":7384.343,"end":7409.118,"text":"社會的其他地方包括你要換成運動幣也好換成文化幣也好你要去超商消費也好我認為這樣子才有辦法去做到真正去推廣第一級的健康促進因為事實上也有發生大家你們去研究一下可能也有發生說之前在推廣很多的運動活動的時候說你如果來運動場所所以你就可以打折等等的"},{"start":7409.398,"end":7425.528,"text":"可是最後發現說事實上真的會去運動的他本來就會去運動所以就只有他會拿到這個這個優惠那不運動的我就是不運動所以我的意思就是說想要跟部長講就是說你這個所謂的健康病你在規劃的時候你就應該讓他通用性再多一點"},{"start":7426.048,"end":7446.642,"text":"因為我本席也是支持這樣的概念我們如果從第一期就開始讓大家健康促進的話所以因為目前為止可以看到的好像是說我目前網路上查到因為你剛剛講的跟我查到的資訊是有一點落差比如說是打疫苗完成篩檢定期健康檢查他可以換成所謂的無糖飲料健康蔬食那我覺得"},{"start":7448.25,"end":7474.081,"text":"應該要把這個所謂的鼓勵運動以及這個幣的通用性擴大不然他你就沒有辦法促進到那些他本來沒有去參與的人你沒有給他更強的動力啊所以這部分就是想要跟你說你們應該再去多串聯其他的就像你剛剛說的是不是行政院這邊應該再去串聯不管是中央的幣也好甚至是到地方政府他們有哪一些可以大家串在一起合作的"},{"start":7474.801,"end":7497.297,"text":"然後真正促進說我都不想去參與的這些人可以讓他有動力他搞不好就是想說我想要賺一點這個文化幣所以我來運動一下對不對我來健康檢查一下我覺得這樣子才會比較有這個好的正向循環是不是有嗎會嗎有有謝謝委員的指教我們朝這個方向來做最大化"},{"start":7497.717,"end":7523.553,"text":"對 然後所以剛剛談完通用性其實我現在還要再講回去你剛剛說的因為你們有這個全民健保行動快易通那我們在APP上面會遇到幾個問題第一個是現在其實絕大多的功能都整合進去健保快易通那你在架構這個健康幣的平台的時候你剛剛有講到又有健習生然後又有這個裡面健康存摺"},{"start":7524.393,"end":7543.15,"text":"其實我認為你這樣子民眾要下載很多的APP那你是不是應該盡量整合到現在已經有最多人的地方因為你現在這個健康實習生健習生啦健習生第一個你們下架了嘛可是他們之前只有500人下載那我有看到部長你說很不滿意嘛可是"},{"start":7544.291,"end":7562.148,"text":"這個部分你們是不是應該要想辦法整合到現在健保快一通有多少人1500萬人次曾經下載過的是1300萬對那健康存摺使用的有多少730萬如果常規在使用每個月三個月內都有使用的大概是兩三百萬"},{"start":7563.289,"end":7585.064,"text":"兩三百萬對啊常規使用啊但是真正有的東西應該已經下載過的有1300萬對嘛所以他其實量體已經很大了嘛是所以你應該是直接整合進去你就不用再去說用什麼見習見習生health go這越來越複雜然後好多個APP一般人怎麼用那對於長輩來講他要去學習要再去下載一個新的也很困難嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":7585.644,"end":7611.415,"text":"所以你是不是應該朝向直接把它整合進去的方式而且因為你如果還要獨立的話你還要編一個特種費教育費我們當時候會把它兩個分開最主要是因為那個健康存摺上有太多的醫療資料所以在做後續的這些操作的時候怕有這些各自治安的問題所以我們希望讓健保的這個My Health Bank當存就是健康資料就好"},{"start":7611.715,"end":7627.136,"text":"不要再去做其他後面的這些兌換各式各樣的活動讓他這個資安上也比較好管理所以他是累積計算積分之後要使用的時候轉到另外一個平台那這個平台我們現在是設定在"},{"start":7628.218,"end":7650.416,"text":"這個用國建署的這個這個平台去去承載然後他在跟其他很多的商家合作比如說他要產生這個流水號去換的時候都在這裡就不會拿著這個健康存摺去做這些消費行為就是讓健康存摺比較單純化你可以再去思考一下其實他也應該是有機會是把它獨立出"},{"start":7650.896,"end":7674.693,"text":"在這個平台在這個APP你看怎麼樣把它區隔出來好我們也比如說在互動的時候它有哪一些資料是絕對不會被拿出去的對我覺得這個部分你們應該思考一下要不然你努力一個然後就是跌床架屋之外你要去推廣它到很多人下載我看都不如你現在這個APP把它整合好所以我覺得這個部分你們應該朝向APP整合的方式"},{"start":7675.333,"end":7700.571,"text":"那我也要有個 最後有個小問題要反映喔我們有接獲到很多的民眾投訴這個問題就是說在你們健保快衣桶裡面如果要登入使用健保卡的功能就需要用這個OTP的驗證碼好 但是現在驗證它產生了這個驗證碼之後它又要求你要另外登入另外用瀏覽器登入你有沒有覺得這個在操作上有點怪怪的就是"},{"start":7702.608,"end":7727.688,"text":"目前市面上的APP都朝向可以直接綁定然後就是讓Google甚至是Line這個部分來做串流那你如果說資安有疑慮不做串接還可以理解但是你收了驗證碼的功能我們應該說希望在手機上操作而不是直接跨到瀏覽器所以我們在用的時候常常就是它出了這個之後我要複製這個OTP的碼之後我要再打開一個瀏覽器然後去找到這個對應的網頁然後再輸入進去"},{"start":7730.506,"end":7752.443,"text":"它是不是應該可以直接用跳轉就好因為你這樣其實是很複雜像我們辦公室的同仁就遇到這樣子的問題我想那個因為部長你有沒有看過這個概念就像是什麼就像是周星馳的電影你有看過那個太陽能手電筒嗎就是你不用光照它的時候它不亮你要它亮你還要用另外一個手電筒去照它亮你等於是"},{"start":7753.263,"end":7777.649,"text":"多了一層不知道在幹嘛用的一個功能委員提的這個是虛擬健保卡啦因為它就等同我們的實體健保卡在就醫的時候使用所以它需要有一個驗證的流程但是這個驗證的能不能讓它再簡單一點這個我們來研究一下謝謝您給我們指證這個是虛擬健保卡我知道我剛剛說就是要使用這個健保卡功能的時候它要有這個OTP驗證的流程"},{"start":7779.269,"end":7807.779,"text":"那我們認為要驗證沒有錯但是你應該讓他的流程更順一點其實我們那個健保的APP裡面那個健康存摺的時候是很簡單他甚至可以用那個人臉辨識就可以進去每一次這個很簡單但是這個虛擬健保卡確實是比較複雜因為他會連結到你後面的那個就醫的那些憑證這樣可是你都掃臉了其實虹膜技術這應該就是已經確保就是你本人了"},{"start":7808.619,"end":7828.846,"text":"所以你這個流程請回去檢討一下好不好可以本席辦公室一個報告書面報告我們再請健保署研究一下這個虛擬健保卡這個部分對 因為你既然都可以掃臉了應該就確定是這個人了嘛是對 好好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝廖偉強委員謝謝四成兩部長先來休息十分鐘"},{"start":8522.048,"end":8547.583,"text":"我們繼續開會好 那我們繼續 請王玉敏委員發言謝謝主席 我們有請部長有請施部長"},{"start":8553.946,"end":8577.251,"text":"部長好 部長今年2026年請問你的住宿機構你的那個入住率要達到百分之多少入住率您的意思是說因為目前是還有一些那個空間對 現在是84你今年你的報告裡面長照3.0你說2026要提高"},{"start":8581.764,"end":8606.72,"text":"應該是說我們會繼續去擴充那個量能因為雖然現在看起來沒有滿但是有些區域上還是有不足啦所以我們還是會去繼續的鼓勵把那個住宿式長照機構希望要在不足的地方還是要再增加起來所以不會是用入住率因為那個會再增加那這個入住率指的就是住宿式機構啦"},{"start":8607.7,"end":8614.328,"text":"那你們住宿機構的使用率你們報告提到2026短期目標87%你不是這樣寫嗎應該是嘛我們報告沒有寫這個報告沒有寫這個喔你們2026沒有目標"},{"start":8624.417,"end":8653.151,"text":"沒有特別去說入住率是多少 定這種目標是不是因為我們還會再漲資源好 我今天要跟你討論的就是我們現在高齡人口越來越多 失能人口也越來越多但是我看到一個就是我們現在住宿機構你現在看到的入住率現在是84%但是這些的空缺他不是真的他想要空下來而是因為在他的這個照護筆底下呢照護"},{"start":8653.951,"end":8662.393,"text":"人員不足然後所導致的這個床位被迫封床這個現象你們有掌握嗎"},{"start":8664.234,"end":8692.193,"text":"我們如果是以整體啦因為這個整體跟區域是不一樣就是有些地方是有床可是有床沒有人的現象我要講的是這個這個現象你們看到了嗎那所以我們才會讓這個住宿式機構也可以開放那個這個移工移工來協助按照一定的比例上去可以聘移工來補足這個人力上不足但是這三年來"},{"start":8693.314,"end":8714.241,"text":"他流失的這些造福人員在機構裡面高達3427人我要跟你討論的就是那難道我們本土的這一些長照機構人力的流失不需要去改善嗎就是只能用移工來補足然後不去探究為什麼這些人要離開機構沒有辦法長期待在機構裡面"},{"start":8718.402,"end":8747.019,"text":"這個問題你們有去檢討嗎要怎麼改善在你的長照3.0裡面有沒有針對這一些照服員包括他的待遇跟勞動條件你要做什麼樣的一個調整怎麼樣留住人在現場因為如果按照這樣的一個流失的速度的話那這個是一個危機變成是有一些住宿機構有床也沒有人沒有人其實你就不能再招收新的這些受照顧者"},{"start":8748.265,"end":8767.014,"text":"跟文說明這個確實這個會流動因為我們在長照體系裡面有一些會流到居家有些流到社區甚至有些流到醫院所以他會流動那但是我們還是希望能夠久任所以我們先去年開始吧有開始"},{"start":8768.315,"end":8783.985,"text":"有在增加112年開始有給他們這個這個進階的就進階的造福源給他每月的津貼5000元來鼓勵他留任連續四年這樣但是2025年他還是持續下降中"},{"start":8785.046,"end":8803.336,"text":"有沒有發揮效果我想整個的長照人力是增加啦整個人力是增加當然在住宿式機構有這些流失不過也有在挹注在進來那個我想我們會持續的去注意到這個人力的變動"},{"start":8804.577,"end":8832.57,"text":"你可以看到下一張圖你看到的是我們現在本土的人力在下降那增加的是什麼增加的是移工的人數也就是我們現在住宿機構裡面其實是高度仰賴移工來補足人力的缺口但是在這樣子下去這是一個好的方向嗎就是說我們過去不是在講說我們本土應該要建構屬於自己本土的兆福遠的人力嗎這個才是本"},{"start":8833.951,"end":8844.636,"text":"但是這一塊本我覺得都在流失當中而在當中的這個問題你們應該好好去探究因為包括你們的訓練你們趙福遠的訓練我看到的數字你們2025年的訓練人數是不是6506人"},{"start":8853.723,"end":8877.828,"text":"跟委員說明 確實人力是一個很大的挑戰2024年是7259人 2025年又下降連前面的職選訓練的人數都在減少 這是個危機我們也看到這個危機 因為確實是整個台灣的工作勞力人口在下降是整個的下降 各行各業都下降"},{"start":8878.428,"end":8905.418,"text":"對 但是偏偏未來長照這邊需要的人口的力是在增加對 需求是要增加的所以這個是非常大的挑戰所以除了靠這個外籍移工之外我們也在想辦法智能化的照顧要導入有嗎 你現在有跟上智能化有什麼新的方案3.0裡面就特別要補助他們去用一些更多的科技我們現在AI發展還是緩慢的"},{"start":8907.739,"end":8925.052,"text":"還有其他的科技啦好像這個自動智慧化的監測啦還有這個資料的這個monitor等等這些都想辦法在還有它的管理啦等等把它導入進來就是希望去去share掉一些人力的負荷當然這個"},{"start":8927.293,"end":8951.706,"text":"我要求你們應該要有一個完整的針對長照的人力你要怎麼樣去補足你要有一套完整的計畫包括你剛剛講如果要引用一些智能輔具甚至未來AI整個的運用我都贊成但是要務實你要看到這個人力缺口的現象要不然我看到你們唯一的解方就是大量進口外籍移工"},{"start":8952.199,"end":8968.49,"text":"用移工來補足所有的缺口這個就是解方但是不是只有這樣子我覺得本土的如果我們希望讓這些造福源就是人數可以穩定隨著我們要照顧人口可以穩定成長的話顯然你之前提出來的這一些獎勵方案"},{"start":8969.892,"end":8975.138,"text":"誘因都還不足所以我希望你們是不是可以一個月之內你們提一個檢討報告針對本土造福人力流失你要怎麼樣去提高從前端的訓練到他的福利到他的薪資到他的職場環境我覺得你們該是到了一個整個好好的去"},{"start":8990.394,"end":9008.84,"text":"檢討了那該是國家資源應該要挹注的我覺得就是要強力挹注啊因為這個是未來的問題我們現在已經遇到了那你如果這一塊你不及早去因應跟補足的話你將來都仰賴外籍移工但是外籍移工萬一他沒有辦法如期的進那麼多的時候"},{"start":9009.52,"end":9028.249,"text":"我們就連照顧都會出問題好不好你一個月之內提一個檢討報告出來好不好應該要怎麼做我覺得你要有一個更大的戰略來看待這件事情不是且戰且走應該好好的找專家學者來把這件事情好好的提出一個解方可不可以這個給我們長一點時間因為這個不簡單三個月三個月但是也要快了好不好好"},{"start":9034.432,"end":9038.536,"text":"那另外一個今天謝謝昭偉安排這個議題這個長昭資源的失衡我覺得中央應該要看見你們在長昭3.0有提出一個構想說十分鐘的生活圈這個口號這個喊得很響亮但是我不知道你們沒有好好去真的走入偏鄉"},{"start":9057.133,"end":9084.865,"text":"看到偏鄉他從一個村到那個村的距離到底有多麼的遙遠今天我們召委排這個議題我想他看到了這個原鄉有這樣的問題那我就具體指出來嘉義縣的阿里山鄉他也是原鄉地區那你看到這個地圖你們說這個涵蓋率有達到破百了百分之一百一十五聽起來都很好聽但是你看他的資源分佈"},{"start":9085.905,"end":9108.131,"text":"它比較密集的地方都是在一些人口比較多的鄉鎮但是你看到右手邊這個阿里山鄉這個阿里山鄉你看起來就是稀稀落落範圍這麼的廣大但是不可能是你們喊出來的10分鐘的生活圈這是天方夜譚不可能的事那所以針對這樣子的一個地區我問兩個問題第一個就是"},{"start":9113.812,"end":9116.555,"text":"你們說10分鐘開車的距離第一個問題是10分鐘開車的距離請問車子誰開老人家自己開嗎現在交通部針對高齡長者開車他們現在是很審慎的就是不鼓勵啦"},{"start":9132.009,"end":9157.808,"text":"就是要加強管制那你這些對象都是高齡者我就問你要自己開嗎如果不是自己開你現在的3.0有針對交通問題有增加車輛嗎就是這種接受嗎我到ABC的據點我這些交通車我的量能你有提高嗎我在偏鄉地區看到的就是交通是一個很大的問題"},{"start":9158.849,"end":9172.497,"text":"你的服務你沒辦法到家你是用定點定點又遙遠又是山路然後你要老人家自己開那麼遠的山路然後來到這個定點然後提供服務交通真的是一個很大的問題你們3.0解決了什麼好"},{"start":9175.743,"end":9196.248,"text":"跟委員說明當然這個不可能我們到處都是10分鐘啦我們必須去誠實的去面對在地理上的障礙所以像這個山地鄉當然就是一個很困難的地理障礙但是如何讓他能夠在地得到服務這個是方法啦"},{"start":9197.188,"end":9211.244,"text":"所以除了交通接送到某些地方之外我們也在思考那麼一直在目前這個規劃中的共生宅讓它能夠在地就是它不具有經濟規模啦這個地方的人真的少所以"},{"start":9212.085,"end":9238.038,"text":"沒有辦法我們剛剛說的涵蓋率是用overall的數字去說服務的人數跟capacity這樣算出來可是這個地方就是漲不出來因為他的那個住宿司機構出不來所以才會我們現在也在希望在這些地方有一些這個社區自發性叫做共生宅我們現在在規劃中那你預計什麼時候要實施這個年底前就會開始試辦了我們現在在密集的討論預計從哪邊開始試辦"},{"start":9240.72,"end":9262.872,"text":"會支援比較缺乏的地方我們考慮的兩個方向一個就是重症兒童因為重症兒童現在我們的住宿司機構比較不好收因為這個都是混不太可能專門是為了這個兒童的這個住宿司機構嘛所以轉換因為他人數又比較少所以轉換成用共生宅來試辦這是一種"},{"start":9264.833,"end":9286.443,"text":"另外一種就是資源不足的地方他就長不出資源了那我們用另外一種方式來新的一種家的方式來來提供這個對你講的這是另外一個但是我剛問的交通你沒有回答你有沒有去提到這個交通我們有那個這個交通接送啊你現在的量能都不夠啊"},{"start":9288.22,"end":9315.548,"text":"你現在量差很多現在其實都好像在搶門票一樣我們現在是做多元的方式嘛也有那個計程車的也有那個這個我希望你們可以好好去研議你們的這個交通的量能應該也可以提供另外一種叫做自助的就是社區自助的只要這裡面有人有駕照他的過去駕駛能力是好的然後呢他不用具備有計程車的資格就是說等於是自助系統裡面就是互助啦對"},{"start":9317.429,"end":9332.681,"text":"他願意擔任志工有點像Uber對 有點像是但是他是以可以就是如果這個老人定期要去這一些長照的服務機構的話我們來研究一下就是在我們那個平台上面有一種就是像委員講的是類似像Uber一樣"},{"start":9336.344,"end":9356.182,"text":"對 因為很多計程車司機也沒有辦法到那麼偏鄉的地方他要做他自己的生意但是這裡面如果有人其實是有優越的駕駛的能力他不見得拿到計程車的牌照但是用一種互助的方式他可以彼此之間就是形成一個互助系統然後他也有責任 就是他去接受"},{"start":9356.582,"end":9378.317,"text":"他沒有辦法開車的老人到這一個據點來或者是來接受你ABC據點都可以這種我認為你們也要認真去考慮偏鄉沒有計程車啦那麼高的山上跟你說一台都沒有啦不可能啦在那邊沒有辦法跑就類似像我們來開個Uber一樣嘛他來登記嘛那這個平台上他可以叫這些我們來評估"},{"start":9380.558,"end":9396.623,"text":"我覺得交通量能事你這種偏鄉地方不要去講什麼十分鐘啦他有車子可以出門就已經是覺得很幸福了因為沒有辦法帶他出門老人就像沒有腳一樣所以這個部分我希望你們可以跟"},{"start":9397.663,"end":9413.112,"text":"我不知道你們是不是要跟交通部研議我們要找交通部對在一些特定的偏遠地方的區域在安全的原則底下不是普及性的啦就是對一些那個有缺口的地方對好不好你也通盤去檢討那這個一樣你一個月可以給一個"},{"start":9417.074,"end":9434.159,"text":"提出一個這個很複雜因為這個還涉及到交通部的那你也要三個月嗎三個月三個月那就要兩個報告一個是人力的一個是交通解決的方案好不好好謝謝好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝王一鳴委員謝謝石沉仁部長接下來請我們杜鑽進委員發言好謝謝主席那請問石部長"},{"start":9445.836,"end":9446.097,"text":"請施長長部長"},{"start":9450.024,"end":9476.882,"text":"主委好 石部長我們賴總統有推健康台灣政策當然我們去了解它也是因應我國人口結構的改變還有我們醫療照護需求的增加我們石部長本身也醫療備檢然後也做過健保署署長我們認為一個地區它在高齡人口達到一個數量其實就應該要有長照跟醫院的醫療需求"},{"start":9477.702,"end":9496.717,"text":"那现在针对之前我们在总执行也提过像我们桃园沿海我们认为这个整个医疗资源就是很匮乏那尤其那我们现在先讨论长照的部分那长照部分当然后来我们在观音大坡讲一个长照园区在2025年"},{"start":9498.078,"end":9514.782,"text":"中巡有開始動工那當然他其實他從當初規劃到動工其實也花了大概8年的時間那這部分不知道部長對大坡角長照園區這部分了解嗎這個我比較陌生不好意思請我們長照師師長"},{"start":9518.247,"end":9534.359,"text":"謝謝委員關心那這個案子因為是我們的部立桃園醫院提出計畫那用長照基金這邊補助他做這個200床的住宿床的一個規劃那目前其實整個案子應該"},{"start":9535.98,"end":9559.196,"text":"我們經費是應該是一百一十一年核定下去的一一一一零一一一那段時間核定下去那現在都是都在都在進行因為當時也有要必須要跟地方要去取得一些共識那也曾經委員也有曾經安排一次到實地看訪所以那個地方還涉及到說還要開路就是還要規劃這個這個路線所以其實問題是比較複雜"},{"start":9565.78,"end":9591.268,"text":"當初規劃到動工其實也真的花了很長的時間那所以現在當然也感謝我們已經開始動工所以我們現在不知道了解他所有的進度都正常那目前進度到底到哪裡因為現在這個部分管控是我們衣服會在管控那這部分再幫我們了解一下我們衣服會其實一直在盯因為我希望今天跟部長提就是因為我們桃園沿海這個"},{"start":9593.169,"end":9615.655,"text":"我們一直講這個醫療資源匱乏那好不容易有這個長照園區希望部長能夠幫我們監督一下讓這個工程能夠順利讓它如期如子完成對對對這部分請部長幫我們多關心一下好所以那再來我們就討論醫療需求嘛那我們今天主要都是針對我們桃園沿海醫療需求的問題那"},{"start":9617.435,"end":9633.479,"text":"部長也知道我們一直在談部桃新屋分院從2023年我們就知道它的量能都滿窄在總諮詢也提過那當初也拜託我們行政院卓榮泰院長院長好像有指示部長請部長檢討我們沿海醫療資源的問題那"},{"start":9638.58,"end":9667.377,"text":"據我們了解部桃新屋分院他的徵件計畫我們查過從國發會一月份就已經送到行政院那不知道現在到底進步了目前已經正式核定了已經核定了我們趕快動所以因為我有看國發會的建議國發會直接寫希望行政院盡快核定表示他們也認為這個急迫性跟重要性那可是後來我們也有了解"},{"start":9668.638,"end":9685.218,"text":"部桃醫院好像針對很多請他們要自籌經費這一部分他們認為好像有很大的困擾是不是這樣新屋這邊沒有問題是那個桃園醫院我們現在有兩個案子一個是新屋分院新屋分院這個已經核定了這個沒有問題經費沒有問題了"},{"start":9687.381,"end":9710.555,"text":"那再來是那個我們那個桃園醫院就是那個本院的地方那個我們也要有新建那個一個大樓所以那個部分的還在審查中那個預算還在爭取所以部桃醫院新屋分院經費自籌款的部分不會有問題那個OK 那個OK那所以目前新屋分院整個計畫那個會準備要趕快來動要來開始動了"},{"start":9713.296,"end":9741.816,"text":"所以那也不會有自籌款的問題嘛那個還好主要是那個桃園醫院這部分真的拜託部長因為大家都很期望啦因為我們沿海這醫療資源當初我們都講過整個桃園就是沿海跟南區這醫療資源非常匱乏所以這個目前看到最有機會就是部桃新屋分院的增建計畫所以大家很多民眾啊"},{"start":9742.296,"end":9757.193,"text":"像我們陽梅觀音新屋大園整個沿海甚至平鎮農產其實對於這個南區部桃新屋分院的徵建計畫大家都引頸很久這部長這一部分希望部長我們希望我們會去這個壯大這個桃葉醫院的量能"},{"start":9762.119,"end":9782.066,"text":"包含跟新屋分院這邊我們的期待是希望讓這個我們的部桃能夠成為醫學中心來發展所以他現在已經通過重度級急救責任醫院希望他也能夠讓新屋這邊也提升起來這樣好對因為這也牽扯到我們周邊有一個觀音工業區他是我們全"},{"start":9782.726,"end":9810.665,"text":"全台湾北部最大的工业区这我们也提过很多次他每天去上班的人最少三万人以上而且他里面有很多的行业像金属制品制造业机械设备制造业电子零组件制造业还有一些比较特别像化学材料化学制品的制造业那我们现在一直很担心万一真的有发生什么公安方面的问题那在第一时间他要去"},{"start":9811.505,"end":9827.166,"text":"周邊都沒有一些大型的醫療院所而且也沒有急診室所以我們那時候是有提是不是針對這部分緊急醫療網路的部分在工業區內或者甚至就近就應該要有"},{"start":9827.646,"end":9844.402,"text":"急診室或者一些比較大型的醫療院所當然部桃新屋分院也是一個好的方法也是一個好的院所但是畢竟其他的觀音工業區過去車程要30分鐘以上所以我們針對"},{"start":9846.123,"end":9867.203,"text":"這個部分是不是應該在這個大型的工業區內或者周邊短程類是不是應該要有增加這個醫療資源急診室或者一些大型的院所甚至是不是應該要針對他的產業類別應該要有一些去做一些比較相關的專責醫院我想"},{"start":9867.842,"end":9890.418,"text":"因為這個工業區的關係比較擔心的就是一些公安意外的時候的緊急應變委員關切應該是屬於這一個那麼我再請醫事司跟了解一下這裡面有沒有什麼特殊需要應變比如說毒化災它需要特別的應變的那我們來提升它的這個"},{"start":9891.658,"end":9918.525,"text":"應變能力當然這個也要跟主管機關大家來討論因為要設這些站也好或者是它的應變機制也好可能我們要跨機關的合作這樣所以我們說本身我們沿海南區醫療資源就很匱乏加上又有這麼大的工業區這麼多的產業類別所以我們希望衛福部是不是可以針對經濟部像依照不同的產業類別"},{"start":9919.625,"end":9941.116,"text":"然後再跟勞動部針對各工業區內的職災復健照護這一部分是不是演繹在工業區內或者周邊能夠來設一些專責的相關醫院那一方面能夠提升我們醫療資源另外一方面也對我們工業區內這麼多的勞工也是一個保障是不是這一部分我們來針對這個產業園區"},{"start":9945.039,"end":9967.794,"text":"去設計他的緊急醫療網絡啦就是他發生一些緊急事件的時候他應該是應變醫院是在哪裡那或者是需要有一個前進的救護站的設計還是什麼我們這個我請醫師師來規劃那師傅可以幫我們演繹一下然後再給我們一個進度大概多久可以給我們看到這個相關的報告也是三個月啦"},{"start":9968.474,"end":9979.166,"text":"我們要跨單位去那拜託因為這可能要跟經濟部、勞動部幾個部會研議一下那拜託部長三個月內給我們初步研議跟我們的規劃進度這個地方的一個緊急醫療應變的網絡跟計畫這樣好謝謝感謝謝謝部長謝謝委員謝謝投選局委員發言"},{"start":10000.182,"end":10008.533,"text":"好 接下來請我們盧憲一委員謝謝主席 有請我們園民會好 請園民會讓部長休息一下"},{"start":10018.397,"end":10040.784,"text":"昨天大概有談過這個議題了那處長不知道昨天有沒有聽到我們的質詢關於原住民的部分有那我先問就是剛好之前我們在3月初的時候跟桃園市政府原民局一起去拜訪主委針對Pride Act的那個經費的需求目前的那個規劃進度到哪裡了"},{"start":10041.304,"end":10055.996,"text":"跟委員報告現在目前研議會已經有把相關的計畫已經收到那我們正在辦理中那你可以告訴的告訴國人嗎現在在整個援助民主健康的這個議題我們人民會的角色在哪裡"},{"start":10057.203,"end":10076.42,"text":"現在因為在嚴明會底下我們社會福利處那有三個科 其中一個就是衛生保健科那主要的任務大概就是我們在健保費的一個補助當中針對10歲以下 55歲以上 六列二目的部分那這塊是由嚴明會這邊來去做指引"},{"start":10079.242,"end":10091.771,"text":"還有一些針對一些街頭病完治獎金那另外我們在長照方面的話我們也針對因為用長照基金也卸衛福部嘛那我們在從105年開始從121站現在"},{"start":10095.834,"end":10114.586,"text":"已經增加到532站那我們服務的族人在各個部落當中總共有18000多人每天都是在量血壓那也讓我們的族人也有一個很好的一個健康管理的一個行為大概重點是這樣子關於交通補助費的部分呢"},{"start":10114.986,"end":10132.756,"text":"那交通補助會現在目前是編載衛福部的衛福部嗎?對所以你最主要的部分就是看的健保費還有我們文件站的這個部分是OK好那謝謝我們羅署長的回答請回那我們有請國務院院長"},{"start":10139.656,"end":10160.255,"text":"委員長好很高興您能夠親自來因為第一次見到您然後我也知道國務院擔任了非常重要的角色尤其在原子民主健康資料這個部分那我昨天有詢問我們的部長說可能每年有2500萬的經費到那我想再確認一下是每年都會有嗎還是每幾年會有還是怎麼樣"},{"start":10161.549,"end":10179.318,"text":"跟委員報告從這個2023年12月29號國衛院正式成立援助民族的健康研究中心到現在每一年部裡面事實上都寬列預算給國衛院來進行這個我們研究中心的各項任務的進行"},{"start":10180.404,"end":10199.931,"text":"他說從賴總統的健康台灣願景中的三高防治八八八計畫與癌症防治計畫這個希望能夠從全國的健康資料裡面來勾結我們原住民健康資料那我想知道這個部分的資料的收集有沒有完全還是說還在進行中是 根文報告那我們從這個"},{"start":10202.031,"end":10220.18,"text":"研究中心成立以後我們就組織了一個研究的一個諮議委員會那目前17位委員裡面大概有八成以上都是我們原住民族的各領域的專家醫師跟學者那我們在從事一般的這一些健康資料庫的建置的時候"},{"start":10220.76,"end":10237.374,"text":"我們特別強調文化的敏感度所以我們就在各面向諮詢我們的這些委員那目前我們希望成立一個可以長期追蹤而且是多面向可以做分析的一個援助民族的生命歷程的"},{"start":10237.914,"end":10254.965,"text":"健康資料庫那從延續我們過去從1998年開始的健保相關的資料庫我們希望可以納入更多的包括死因包括癌症包括疫苗的接種也包括這些未來的這些相關的跟"},{"start":10255.865,"end":10278.811,"text":"就學就醫相關的其他部會的資料我們可以整合在一起就說我們希望能夠整合健保醫療利用長照慢性病死因啊偏向的醫師人力跟文化照護服務的關鍵資料然後整合成一個政策是不是目前有一個政策的一個優先的順序嗎還是你們已經有產生一個政策的導引給我們的部長參考"},{"start":10280.174,"end":10309.621,"text":"是 那目前我們這一年多來就是說諮詢了這些委員我們針對12個主要的議題包括這些醫療照護包括長照包括慢性病包括癌症包括口腔的衛生等等我們有12個重要的面向那目前希望可以透過更深入的這個研究所以經過兩次的計畫的徵集我們目前有六個計畫要開始執行那這個六個計畫的主持人"},{"start":10310.021,"end":10325.495,"text":"或共同主持人必須要有原住民族的身份那我感謝國會的努力我相信在你們的努力之下還有我們的監督之下希望把這項工作做好那我會持續關注這個議題那謝謝院長親自到場謝謝謝謝委員好 請衛福部長請部長"},{"start":10333.817,"end":10345.671,"text":"部長就講一個比較我們就開始講到比較細節的問題了那我剛看了就是說偏鄉地區的一個健保署回答一下就是我剛看醫療"},{"start":10350.02,"end":10378.123,"text":"缺乏的地區的範圍裡面我看竟然沒有高雄市高雄市我看了一下我在我常常經過的地方我覺得特別偏遠的地方比如說六龜還有甲仙那為什麼這兩個區沒有在我們的醫療缺乏的地區因為它是鄰近我們納瑪下桃園最近的那個平地鄉如果說平地區那如果說我們這兩個區塊"},{"start":10379.724,"end":10398.324,"text":"完全沒有醫療服務的時候其實要藉助甲仙跟六龜可是甲仙跟六龜如果他本身也是醫療缺乏地區的話這個部分要怎麼去補足委員指的是說什麼就是說他們的醫療要去看病啊急救啊其實在"},{"start":10399.571,"end":10428.982,"text":"在我們納瑪下跟桃園地區可能相對不樂因為他們可能只有一個點比如說衛生所可是比如說他為了要就近他會到甲仙跟六龜可是甲仙跟六龜他明明他也是醫療缺乏的地區那如果說這個這個重點沒有被看看到的話沒有資源更多給他們的時候我們鄰近的族人要去的時候他們也是去一個醫療缺乏的地區啊我的意思是這樣是說沒有列入那個嗎對啊他沒有列入甲仙跟六龜沒有列入"},{"start":10430.772,"end":10448.982,"text":"跟委員報告我們健保在列入偏鄉事實上每一季都會有提案我會盤點這個醫療資源跟當地的居民的人數我們剛委員提到這兩處我們回去再做盤點我們每一季每一季都有持續列入的那再跟委員補充事實上不是只有偏鄉是挹注偏鄉醫療資源"},{"start":10450.283,"end":10469.063,"text":"醫事室那邊有以外光是健保署就有三個一個是委員知道的燈塔型醫院那另外一個就是IDS第三個是醫缺醫不足的巡迴診所以總共有三個健保署那為什麼會特別講到這個就是因為要洗腎可能就要到這兩個地區啦因為我們娜瑪夏跟桃園就是沒有洗腎的床嘛"},{"start":10469.483,"end":10488.853,"text":"那我是希望能夠特別重視他鄰近的這個平地鄉的一個平地區的一個醫療的規模讓我們鄰近的族人如果要到那個地方的時候又找不到可以去洗腎或者是說進一步的治療的地方我認為是這樣第二個就是我們的養成計畫已經這麼久了可是我還是會聽到"},{"start":10489.993,"end":10505.8,"text":"有些他非以色列的比如說他是藥師啦或者是護理師啊結果他找不到地方可以服務比如說呢因為他可能因為是縣市政府他把關了一些人士的一個缺口那他認為這個是在地方的人事權不過"},{"start":10506.42,"end":10528.807,"text":"他已經受完訓練了他也要償還公費了他卻苦無沒有地方可以服務我覺得這個明明是我們衛福部去訓練的或者說我們公費的這些養成計劃的學生你不能讓他沒有地方可以服務啊所以我是覺得說你們應該去盤點有多少個畢業生拿到執照以後他確實找不到地方服務你們要擔下這個責任來幫他們找"},{"start":10530.487,"end":10553.56,"text":"好跟委員說明我們確實也發現到有一些在地養成的因為他的第一順位是要回到他本來的原鄉但是因為如果沒有缺因為可能之前的服務的還沒有期滿或者是繼續留下來了那他就沒有缺出來那我們就會有第二順位第三順位可能會逐步的擴大到其他的這個"},{"start":10554.6,"end":10569.786,"text":"偏鄉人力不足的地方然後或者是我們的部立醫院所以當然我們有一些順位啦至少讓他有地方可以去啦我們剛才講的燈塔醫院嘛對不對也可以去還有我們的我們再盤點一下因為我們大概是"},{"start":10570.686,"end":10592.571,"text":"半年會盤點一次看有哪些缺不過我想說如果找不到的就直接來跟我們報導上次我有提過就是有一些公費醫師他想要去居家醫療型態的診所服務我希望他能夠也列入可以償還公費的一個選項因為之前有這樣看過我們也列在這個Priority裡頭"},{"start":10594.511,"end":10614.25,"text":"那還有一個IDS值班的地點因為永遠都是在衛生所可是其實衛生所是相對醫療的那個比較豐富的地方為什麼怎麼說呢因為很多開業意會顯在人多的地方比如說像山地門的話它就會開在可能開在水門或者是開在什麼我的意思是說"},{"start":10615.071,"end":10644.631,"text":"因為都沒有去檢討IDS的晚上的值班地點所以它地點永遠都一樣所以缺乏的地方永遠缺乏比如說呢我們里那裡它是一個八八風災移居的一個區塊它居住了三個鄉的一個原住民主人口在那裡結果變成是遠變成是全國最大的地區還有我們長治百合可是IDS的那個點它就不是在那裡啊所以它應該是要有一個所謂的彈性也就是說我們不能只限定說IDS的值班的地點是"},{"start":10645.812,"end":10663.405,"text":"陰性規定是在哪裡應該讓衛生局所去盤點說哪一些鄉鎮或者是說區域或是部落是需要晚上夜間值班的地方而不是永遠都在那個地方stand by然後永遠都沒有病人來或者說該需要服務的人沒有服務到"},{"start":10664.545,"end":10691.416,"text":"我們今年那個IDS檢討的時候我就請健保邀請那個衛生局來表示意見看他有沒有需要調整的點這樣按照那個地方上的需求來調整最後因為時間的關係我還是講到巴士量表因為我曾經因為這樣的事情召集過衛福部還有園民會到辦公室來聊因為我們的平均餘命就是差到7歲左右可是就因為這樣的一個差距我們沒有做adjustment"},{"start":10691.636,"end":10710.282,"text":"所以我希望至少75歲或是至少有一個降低對原住民來講當然不是每一個原住民可以請的起可是當他有這個需求的時候應該就因為他的民族的關係而得到這方面的一個你提的是說80歲以上面80兩表希望那個年齡下降對原住民好 我們來"},{"start":10712.103,"end":10728.509,"text":"我們來提建議給勞動部啦因為我也問過勞動部長 勞動部長說這是衛福部的事情對啊我知道 所以我們要提建議啦所以我那時候叫跨部會的一個學者好不好發布的時候要他們發布但是我們來提建議 建議按照這個年齡的這個餘命的落差來做調整我們來發這個公文給勞動部 建議他"},{"start":10738.312,"end":10743.977,"text":"對那個元敏的話他的那個免巴氏陽表的那個年齡往下修看看是不是到75這樣好 謝謝好 謝謝盧縣議委員"},{"start":10752.711,"end":10756.255,"text":"目前收到臨時提案共商案"},{"start":10773.339,"end":10781.226,"text":"等一下我先宣告一下 待會謝一芳委員執行完畢後休息20分鐘用餐休息過後處理臨時提案現在請林淑芳委員發言好 謝謝昭偉 是不是請我們這個部長 石部長有請石部長"},{"start":10802.123,"end":10827.953,"text":"好部長我今天要跟你討論的是這個瘦瘦針瘦瘦針那因為你們食藥署在今年的這個2月7號發布了一個新聞稿把這個近期國際新聞報導裡面美國有數千名GLP-1受體促銷劑類品藥品使用者因嚴重副作用提起大規模訴訟而英國吉保健"},{"start":10828.833,"end":10855.575,"text":"產品管理局亦於近期發布安全警訊提醒該類藥品可能引發嚴重的急性胰臟癌的風險包含罕見的壞死性和致死性胰臟炎的案例大家都知道我們也有許可我們最近通報的不良反應截至到去年年底為止是21件"},{"start":10857.216,"end":10881.688,"text":"那都還沒有觀測到大概整體性的藥品安全的問題大概21件而已但你們食藥署發布這個新聞大概是要提醒大家說這個東西部分是可以許可用於12歲以上但大多數都能限成人使用而且要符合需符合BMI等使用條件你們是這樣子提醒"},{"start":10882.648,"end":10905.082,"text":"所以你們這個新聞稿大概也有另外兩個重點第一個就是說網路販售違法第二個這個全國藥物不良反應通報兩年間21件那請問部長你覺得目前你們說網路販售違法那受受真正網路販售的猖獗的情形你覺得嚴重嗎主秘 不然你先計算好 主秘質詢你"},{"start":10910.427,"end":10917.317,"text":"祖密在質詢抱歉我們暫停一下因為他干擾到我的質詢抱歉"},{"start":10920.722,"end":10942.623,"text":"你們告訴大家說網路販售違法那網路販售的問題嚴不嚴重我真的跟委員說明我偶爾也會聽到有朋友在講類似像這種他並不是在我們的藥局或者是診所拿到在藥局就沒有藥局管理的問題了嗎"},{"start":10944.951,"end":10965.404,"text":"藥局的部分喔就是說你說在網路上拿到的違法但在藥局就沒有藥局管理的問題了嗎也有也有這個藥是屬於醫師的處方藥所以一定要有醫師的這個處方那你覺得兩年間只有接獲21件疑似不良反應的數字你覺得有沒有黑數的可能存在"},{"start":10967.932,"end":10974.166,"text":"這個所有的report都是under report啦所有的通報都是都有低估的可能啦"},{"start":10974.827,"end":11000.182,"text":"那但是呢就是說我們到目前是還沒有看到那個很嚴重的像這個報章所揭露的所以我們也在提醒臨床的同仁所以你有看到這個報章的媒體的報導囉有有有媒體講得很嚴重你認為媒體講得太過嚴重了是不是不是是要提醒我們的臨床的醫療人員去注意媒體的報導是什麼內容我現在跟你講這個媒體的報導"},{"start":11004.645,"end":11026.207,"text":"就是說記者分別潛入三個社群名字叫授授真的 簡重的 相關的社群記者潛入三個社群其中一個LINE的社群人數每個月成長的幅度大概增加500人截至他截稿前 那個社群是2000人的規模"},{"start":11028.269,"end":11032.413,"text":"那網友大概問說大概多少錢5MG的大概多少錢有沒有推薦北部的比較便宜的診所到處在缺貨跟版主拿的話很快就會拿得到大概都是這種問題要回應"},{"start":11044.025,"end":11053.816,"text":"那其實表面上好像大家在裡面詢問事實上版主也往往為了求真若可的人告訴大家說我這裡很多優惠的價格提供了購買的管道所以很多不肖業者在裡面滲入違法販售的很隱蔽的就在這個裡面"},{"start":11063.886,"end":11085.777,"text":"這還是眾多地下流通管道之一一個LINE群組就兩千多人顯然就使用者或是搜尋資訊者或是提供管道給徵者兩千多人一個LINE而已這只是其中一個你說記者寫得太過嚴重有沒有太過嚴重我覺得我是持保留啦"},{"start":11087.247,"end":11113.532,"text":"但是一般人你只要打開IG、FB、Trade、Dcard所有售售真的廣告都無所不在所以裡面都要詢問然後裡面的帳號真假不知道那些有人問問題有人健康諮詢、價格諮詢回答的人到底是誰也不知道身份是不是專家也不知道但是這些匿名的陌生者"},{"start":11114.572,"end":11128.024,"text":"還真相當起這種醫師啦回覆他人用藥的疑問從如何減輕副作用到真劑保存的方式來源不明的這一些到底是假醫師這些醫主"},{"start":11130.125,"end":11145.757,"text":"還經常錯誤擺出然後到底說我針劑已經打了我可不可以記我可以放多久打開的已經使用過的針劑可以再放一個月嗎有人就說我的醫師告訴我可以放三四個月在那裡不斷的分享"},{"start":11146.778,"end":11149,"text":"這樣的方法會不會出問題 會喔 這是處方藥大家都知道處方藥 要醫師評估 詢問病史才能夠取得但是在網路社群上 賣家不去醫師資格那沒有見面 毫無門檻 直接流通成交買賣"},{"start":11170.942,"end":11192.614,"text":"然後賣家的話術也不是專業性讓消費者使用的風險增加很多啊可是呢記者還報導他透過這個社群接觸到其中一名版主自稱是職業的藥師所以他有管道可以輕易拿得到這個真品藥品"},{"start":11193.875,"end":11211.744,"text":"四年間他從在FB上販售瘦瘦針現在轉向LINE的社群賣猛煎了社群人數破千他說有人38公斤也想買他說我是覺得有點病態不建議他打但是我最後還是賣給他"},{"start":11213.645,"end":11236.371,"text":"王先生表示現在他也知道因為他藥師嘛他知道這樣子在社群上販賣藥品是違法但他還是希望能趁這個機會趕快多賺一點錢這只是網路平台一個社群幾千人每個人都有幾千人網路平台那還有沒有其他管道還有沒有其他違法的管道在販賣就你所知部長還有嗎"},{"start":11241.425,"end":11244.026,"text":"這個我就不清楚不清楚我告訴你還有去年12月有一個獨家新聞華航的空服員從日本私自夾帶大量的猛劍熱入境沒有申報的12盒回台的時候被松山機場海關查獲然後沒收了全部然後也依要事法移送法辦這個東西是日本代購回來還有一種是真的是代購網頁"},{"start":11269.479,"end":11288.48,"text":"境外 我剛剛講的是除了社群在境內購買以外現在是境外回來的很多 境外回來的所以你們都沒有掌握有沒有特殊的職業或集團違法的從境外攜帶入境為什麼要去境外攜帶入境 為什麼"},{"start":11293.387,"end":11308.648,"text":"比較便宜因為無獨有每一個國家定價都不一樣都不一樣而且包裝也不一樣網路上流傳日本代購售售真更便宜所以"},{"start":11309.389,"end":11330.598,"text":"平行輸入水貨來了然後呢蒙建勒為例連日本是周拋型的獨立分裝的一支單次使用的台灣是一支分四次嘛所以都看得出來看包裝蒸汽多少量就知道是日本的還是台灣的都看得出來"},{"start":11331.838,"end":11350.107,"text":"那我們現在看到這樣第一個境外輸入不是只有這樣子還有一個是跨境網站購買售售真日本的但是是跨境的網站代購日本的商品的網站"},{"start":11351.716,"end":11371.626,"text":"所以這個裡面標榜日本進口的代購網站可以看一下嗎不僅有日本實體店鋪的資訊和公司的簡介還附有完整購買說明和注意事項這些網站試圖將代購流程包裝的好像他們是透明的正規的合法的"},{"start":11372.606,"end":11387.074,"text":"還有代購的網路賣家毫不避諱地提出沒關係我還可以幫你安排在日本代看診讓日本醫師開藥再把藥寄回台灣你看這個代購網站叫什麼KUWA在這裡代購他會幫你買日本直送你看客戶評價"},{"start":11398.197,"end":11421.909,"text":"下訂三天就送到台灣了啊這個只有日文以外再來就繁體製他的網頁只有兩個版本日文跟繁體製為台灣專門架設的然後點開門見樂的頁面客戶評價都是台灣消費者看一下全部都是台灣的然後呢然後呢部長他這個"},{"start":11427.959,"end":11449.59,"text":"從日本就直接輸入進來了以這樣的方式購買藥品郵寄到台灣是合法的嗎這個當然違法那食藥署有沒有在處理呢這很廣泛耶普遍耶食藥署有在處理嗎不合法你說不合法當然不合法有在管理嗎你不知道這個我們要來檢討好我現在要告訴你"},{"start":11455.546,"end":11476.038,"text":"你們人家記者去採訪了食藥署藥品組組長王淑芬組長表示該網站監察IP是在國外的境外公司政府沒有管轄權跟調查權難以開罰但是如果一旦接獲通報"},{"start":11477.239,"end":11504.761,"text":"因為藥物可能的安全疑慮還是會有所以會把不是 它是說如果未來藥物本身有安全的疑慮你們食藥署就會把相關資訊放在食藥署的食藥碰瘋廣告專區所以會善盡提醒國人注意產品的安全和品質欸 寶丁你剛才這個網站很有名它不是那個第一次"},{"start":11506.712,"end":11512.256,"text":"這個網站不是第一次,2024年在COVID-19的時候,他們販賣莫拉皮拉韋的藥品,販賣過但食藥署的管理方式就是說,好你們這是碰瘋廣告,我把你放在專區給大家知道,就沒了"},{"start":11527.125,"end":11529.206,"text":"然後2025年我在這裡也質詢過這個網站他們在賣什麼史蒂諾斯然後我在這裡質詢說這個是"},{"start":11541.235,"end":11557.669,"text":"是問題網路上違法販賣這麼嚴重當時石耀水是說這境外網站無法可管就蓄以為夷的立委這樣子消極怠惰的態度難怪境外網站行利做家好"},{"start":11558.67,"end":11570.612,"text":"也賣得很好 鑽羊藥也賣得很好 安眠藥也賣得很好抗COVID-19的抗病毒的莫拉皮拉維當時也賣得很好現在授受針也賣得很好我們現在是沒有政府嗎你們一句話 境外網站沒有辦法管理 開發不到"},{"start":11585.563,"end":11601.539,"text":"阿得雙手一攤嗎跟委員說明我們也已經關注到這個電商平台或者是這個網路上販賣的這個問題所以我們近期就會提出要事法的修法把它納入管理"},{"start":11602.139,"end":11607.921,"text":"這句話我已經聽了快一年了因為我在2022年諮詢史蒂諾斯的時候2022年我諮詢史蒂諾斯的時候你們就這樣子講了而且你們本來說都沒有境外網站沒有辦法管結果我去年提了預算凍結案你們就馬上找相關單位來屏蔽了那個網站有一個假的史蒂諾斯台灣官方網站你們就馬上給它屏蔽掉了"},{"start":11629.288,"end":11649.571,"text":"現在是整個其他的不只是賣這個的還有就是什麼都賣的 哭啊的你們就不敢屏蔽掉如果蝦皮你也不敢屏蔽掉所以呢 容許這樣的跨境網站我覺得政府現在是睜一隻眼閉一隻眼然後說要修法也已經講了一年了版本也沒有拿出來"},{"start":11650.612,"end":11668.999,"text":"食藥署回答我本來說都沒有辦法管後來怎麼網站就屏蔽掉了只要要給他凍結預算馬上就有效率把那個網頁屏蔽掉了這樣的違法只是這樣子嗎只是這樣子嗎這樣違法的行徑延伸的醫療問題有哪些啊"},{"start":11670.699,"end":11695.993,"text":"網路上亂購代購境外輸入然後我們的藥局沒有處方籤藥局直接可以買得到然後就是這樣子亂很亂啊所以這個台大醫院內分泌新陳代謝科的主治醫師李洪源質疑同樣的藥物能用更便宜的價格取得其中的原因和風險相當不可控台大醫院"},{"start":11696.573,"end":11717.243,"text":"嘉義部兼任組織醫師年曉欣也強調這種藥品來源不明 無法確認真為批號 效期 成分也沒有經過食藥署檢測不知道有沒有符合台灣的衛生法規所以在這種運送的過程有沒有變質 保存是不是完整有沒有被稀釋掉"},{"start":11718.343,"end":11734.732,"text":"如果這麼容易可以跨國帶來帶去世界級的藥廠為什麼還要耗費資金做冷鏈處理這風險很大我就要講這一段是說所有的很多醫生都出來講其實這樣子的跨國境外輸入風險很大風險很大"},{"start":11737.935,"end":11756.289,"text":"那為什麼還是這麼大量而政府都沒有管那除跨國網路我剛剛講了藥局和診所的無處方籤販售無處方籤販售的問題真的就這一篇媒體的報導其實也是很嚴重"},{"start":11757.982,"end":11773.202,"text":"三名記者主動提供自己的BMI他們的BMI是16到19分別致電到藥局的實體諮詢結果發現其中幾間藥局並沒有拒絕販售也沒有按照流程索取處方簽"},{"start":11774.523,"end":11787.196,"text":"所以這樣子在民眾眼中大家認為很專業的 為健康把關的也有藥局勢 直接就賣了像賣OK棒一樣的賣了那我現在要講說保證保證這個問題真的"},{"start":11797.913,"end":11817.278,"text":"所以我們從兩個方向來跟委員報告第一個我們在上半年我們就會提出修法的版本現在已經我看了差不多了所以我們接下來就會開始來做預告所以上半年我們就會提出那個關於這個網路平台的這個管理的修法網路平台以外的呢代購的呢"},{"start":11817.978,"end":11841.369,"text":"日本代購的呢 日本境外輸入的呢然後沒有處方簽的藥局就販售呢我還沒有講一個 還有一個醫美診所 有醫師耶你看這醫美診所的廣告醫美診所的廣告你感覺直接就無選醫你到我這個醫美診所來我就免費送你馬上打蒙健樂體驗一次當然醫美診所"},{"start":11846.53,"end":11872.043,"text":"大家都知道這個已經有違法了啦這個要請那個醫師師交代給衛生局去查處這個已經有違法違反我們醫療法的廣告了這個免費促銷這個不行了就已經這樣因為診所授受針的流通方式比我們想像中的更彈性沒有一整支的藥可以賣啊那這個體驗醫治可能是一支打四個人欸一支打四個人欸換個針頭就繼續打四個人欸"},{"start":11876.281,"end":11879.425,"text":"醫美診所這個要查然後沒有處方簽就可以施打 贈送 免費體驗在這種 我就想說我們再這樣下去你會覺得要釋法就等於是擺著好看的啦"},{"start":11892.947,"end":11920.03,"text":"不是只有你剛剛講的網站上販售日本的怎麼辦醫美這些怎麼辦還有另外一個就是通路就是要去掌握這個藥商供應到哪裡去所以我們會把這個流向掌握出來所以如果他的這個流向是藥商供應給藥局是正常的所以藥局就要有一定的處方簽要能夠讓我們查核不然他就是違法販賣"},{"start":11921.251,"end":11938.196,"text":"你們沒有在稽查量跟處方簽對不對得起來不知道啦醫美診所更難啦但我的意思是說欸這樣大家打全台灣都沒有人出事嘛只有21件一年兩年21件看起來好像都沒出事欸"},{"start":11940.19,"end":11950.976,"text":"不良反應件數只有21件然後我們大家在催上面你隨便搜尋猛健樂不舒服划一分鐘的螢幕都比21件還要多部長你們的查處只有21件我剛剛講在網路上隨便划一分鐘猛健樂不舒服搜尋都比21件還要多"},{"start":11964.574,"end":11967.917,"text":"這個問題是什麼 你知道嗎這個問題是什麼我剛剛講的 代購進來的委託從日本境外輸入的醫美診所免費體驗的藥局沒有廚房間買的然後在賴群組集體購買的這些人打了出事了請問 藥害補償救濟可以去通報嗎他可以去通報不良反應嗎 可以嗎"},{"start":11993.134,"end":12016.571,"text":"他們有資格這些違法管道取得的他們可以去通報不良反應嗎可以嗎不良反應的話都可以通報就是說如果你是在醫療端發現的因為我們的通報是從醫療端通報不是民眾的各自通報所以如果你是因為不舒服去就醫這個醫療端發現說是因為打這個藥感染的後面他就會通報"},{"start":12020.934,"end":12040.419,"text":"通報以後那個當事人是不是有違法這個就要看後面因為通報只是處理這個通報了以未來的醫藥害救濟的話他可以試用嗎醫藥害救濟現在目前是兩種一種是按試印證使用的可以救濟第二個是off-label use"},{"start":12041.479,"end":12048.344,"text":"是醫師認為有使用必要的時候那個最先前提要架構合法使用吧這些都不合法的所以你現在把最前提叫要合法使用像of labor use的或者是他適應症的有符合的都可以申請你沒有講最核心第一句要合法取得合法醫師給你使用的才有"},{"start":12063.775,"end":12078.93,"text":"而我剛剛講的一個菌組就兩千了每天代購不曉得幾千的違法在藥局買的一枚免費給你體驗的事實上要害就是通通都不能夠申請不能夠申請他還會給你通報嗎不會通報了搞不好還有法律責任要問責"},{"start":12087.213,"end":12106.88,"text":"但是呢 這個問題你們做了什麼 我的意思是說2月食藥署的新聞講了說美國數千名嚴重副作用他連嚴重副作用是什麼都沒講耶然後講英國政府發布了安全警訊嚴重胰臟炎 壞死和致死性的胰臟炎"},{"start":12111.105,"end":12135.597,"text":"這個東西我們的政府都沒有正中歧視告訴大家多嚴重那如果你打了有什麼症狀要怎麼反應那美國這個幾千人4400名的病患去提告從18歲到87歲你知道你知道多嚴重嗎我們政府都沒有告訴人家多嚴重是新聞報導而已"},{"start":12137.518,"end":12155.565,"text":"你們的食藥署跟他說美國數千人使用者因嚴重副作用提起大規模訴訟你們食藥署連告訴大家警告大家這個問題有多嚴重都不願意做75%的人主張有胃麻痺表現為嚴重延緩胃排空有人被診斷為嚴重或永久性的胃麻痺或胃清癱"},{"start":12162.327,"end":12189.057,"text":"然後腸組色、腸梗色有人手術有人結腸破裂嚴重嘔吐就不講還有眼睛與神經發生問題包括突發性的視力喪失心的色盲或眼部血流中斷還有其他不良反應包括腎靜脈血栓或肺栓塞有死亡案例這個是可是一般人不會覺得我肺栓塞我血栓"},{"start":12190.598,"end":12200.252,"text":"是跟達蒙建勒有關啊政府也沒有對外公告啊也沒有實證啊但美國的案子是這樣子你們為什麼連這個資訊都這麼的這麼的保守不願意"},{"start":12205.539,"end":12233.678,"text":"這樣子輕輕的帶過一筆帶過都不願意提醒台灣而且台灣有這麼多違法在使用違規在使用的新聞稿輕描淡寫的嚴重副作用是政府的立場還是藥廠的立場你們這麼多問題就只用一個美國這些使用者有嚴重副作用五個字帶過這是要代表政府的立場還是符合藥廠的利益"},{"start":12236.769,"end":12257.431,"text":"可不可以這樣做不行啦我知道是不行啦那個有一個加醫科醫師王子允因為他媒體有報導所以我就直接就講出來了他說他這些問題讓他聯想到減重手術他這個醫生說我常常"},{"start":12258.812,"end":12275.257,"text":"說應該抱著必死的覺悟去接受手術因為死亡對個人或家屬來講只是0跟1那很多人不管用藥或手術都是心存僥倖覺得手術同意書或是訪單上的副作用不會發生在自己身上所以民眾心存僥倖跟醫師淡化風險跟安全保證就是這些悲劇發生的原因"},{"start":12281.279,"end":12287.083,"text":"對藥廠而言他們的工作只有砸錢研究跟研發還有用研究結果申請藥證只負責把可能的副作用寫出來已經有兩個藥廠並不負責民眾的心態跟醫生的話術所以這個王醫師講到說已經有兩個身心科醫師連有他的朋友不斷的反應他們因為身心科嘛所以會有人問求診嘛"},{"start":12308.661,"end":12332.612,"text":"身心科醫生說 又遇到一位達蒙健那一個月發現沒有性慾 沒有活力 然後新發生憂鬱的患者真心建議開瘦瘦針的醫師 要積極追蹤患者的心理狀態所以不是只有生理上的憂鬱症 沒有活力 然後沒有性慾"},{"start":12334.141,"end":12335.702,"text":"我今天這個問題的質詢不是反對民眾去使用也不是政府要不要反對減重治療而是一個本來應該要嚴格管理的處方藥"},{"start":12352.751,"end":12370.59,"text":"正在被醫美化商品化網路化甚至地下化而主管機關卻還停留在被動的提醒零星的通報還有事後回應的層次這個才是我們憂心的廚房要這樣子在社群這樣子賣然後"},{"start":12373.07,"end":12397.899,"text":"醫事管理 醫療倫理 用藥安全的防線全部全面的在鬆動更嚴重的是這樣犯難的違法的流通和錯誤的使用風險食藥署公佈的不良反應通報卻低得不成比例這到底是真的沒問題還是代表我們的整個監督監測的機制根本就沒有真正的反映出這個社會正在發生的醫療風險"},{"start":12402.541,"end":12411.067,"text":"所以國外這樣的潛力 那我們政府到底要怎麼樣你有沒有盤點 這三年授受針違法販售違法輸入沒有處方給藥診所拆分施打 這些醫美診所免費施打這一些查處有沒有 開罰有沒有 我想是沒啦再來"},{"start":12424.998,"end":12442.207,"text":"社群平台跨境網站地下代購以及診所藥局違規違法亂象你們到底要怎麼管理具體上我想你們也還沒有那在這種已經發生問題了真的有副作用了違法使用他真的有副作用了他要怎麼辦"},{"start":12443.459,"end":12468.134,"text":"他能怎麼辦 那政府該怎麼辦我們應該要怎麼辦我今天是提醒大家啦因為授受真的商品這些藥品藥品商品化跟處方要把關失靈喔不是因為只有民眾有需求也不是因為只有社群平台助長了這個風潮其實背後很明確就是一個商業的結構"},{"start":12469.835,"end":12485.58,"text":"高單價高討論度而且要持續不斷回購的自費藥品當這個收益這麼可觀的時候市場自然就會傾向擴大它的消費傾向淡化它的風險包裝它的便利性"},{"start":12486.46,"end":12510.176,"text":"所以今天最需要被追究的不是業者賣得太過頭而已而是主管機關你在這個過程裡面有沒有扮演了一個消極縱容的角色如果政府沒有及時介入這些高風險的處方藥沒有主動查查 沒有清楚的揭露風險沒有對不當的行銷和灰色的流通"},{"start":12511.296,"end":12533.166,"text":"設下明確的界線那麼這種行政上的消極跟怠惰本身就成為藥品商品化的推手所以換句話說售售真不是自然成為變成商品化的而是在市場強力推動下政府消極怠惰的管理這狀況下一步一步的變成暢銷商品藥品變商品"},{"start":12536.828,"end":12554.463,"text":"這個顯然管理的強度都沒有了 促漲了藥品商品化我今天是要說這些 你們要怎麼做跟委員說明 我們一個月會提出整個強化的管理措施出來請您放心 措施要有行動 要管理"},{"start":12557.414,"end":12570.658,"text":"藥廠賺得很爽啦可是他們對風險其實是不在乎的而我們是在乎風險的但我們政府連掌握風險的能力都沒有企圖都沒有這才是大問題啦謝謝好 謝謝委員我們一個月內會提出強化的措施"},{"start":12574.875,"end":12588.557,"text":"好謝謝林子芬委員我們重新宣告待會兒王正旭委員尋答完及處理臨時提案處理完待謝一芬委員執行完畢後休息二十分鐘用餐現在請王正旭委員發言這三千塊會來嗎"},{"start":12607.339,"end":12629.931,"text":"好 謝謝主席謝謝召委重新安排這個行程相關的議程我還是要麻煩石部長因為今天有兩個問題想要透過我請石部長對 召委特別安排的內容來跟部長對話包括第一個就是偏鄉離島疑似人員流財"},{"start":12631.031,"end":12646.403,"text":"還有健康資料庫的整合健康資料庫的整合剛剛趙薇也有稍微跟院長提到過另外一個議題就是慢性病防治法的進度我想這兩個議題都非常非常需要"},{"start":12647.185,"end":12668.737,"text":"再透過今天的方式來跟大家做討論那第一個就是有偏鄉離島疑似人員流財的措施我想這部分部長也非常清楚部長過去這麼長的一段時間擔任在這個衛福部裡面有非常多的經驗那也實務也知道幫助非常多相關的偏鄉的議題"},{"start":12670.083,"end":12689.919,"text":"那如何留財應該是所有在做偏鄉處理過程當中最重要的一部分那其實透過這個離老偏鄉長期的醫療人力的不足不只是醫師而已應該是相關的人力都會受到影響"},{"start":12690.82,"end":12717.291,"text":"那我們有了解很多的家籍很多的津貼都是希望讓人才能夠留在偏鄉可是也有其他的相關條件包括交通不方便或者是生活條件等等的所以留任的機制並不是那麼樣的穩定這是我們目前一直在面臨的問題所以我在最近跟陳妍委員還有莊瑞雄委員一起提了一個有關於醫療法"},{"start":12718.371,"end":12738.466,"text":"第88條的修正的內容是希望能夠強化這個照顧的量能有關於人才流失的部分我們是希望在這個第88條裡面呢在第三項就是能夠針對醫事人員服務在偏鄉在離島偏鄉各級醫院及衛生所的部分收入"},{"start":12739.11,"end":12752.525,"text":"能夠透過好的方案來免於紀錄年度因課稅所得的課稅的部分適用範圍當然這個還需要再進一步的處理我想這部分最重要的就是希望能夠透過這個稅制的優惠"},{"start":12755.528,"end":12771.201,"text":"讓來肯定我們醫事人員在惡劣的環境裡面做非常好的貢獻那我相信這個長期在衛生地方衛生所服務的盧扎偉應該感受非常深刻因為我們知道盧扎偉在這方面真的貢獻非常非常的多"},{"start":12772.375,"end":12796.804,"text":"所以衛福部這邊是不是能夠認同這個稅制優惠可以作為流採的一個補充方案那這樣的修正方向不知道部長有沒有進一步如何跟財政部啟動相關的評估跟研理跟委員說明為了增加這個流採其實我們也做了很多的措施那也有規劃中的那第一個我們就已經希望把這個已經"},{"start":12797.344,"end":12819.663,"text":"做的就是把那個所有的給付都再加成所有的這個離島我們都是加30%那另外有一些偏鄉我們也都有加成的給付就是希望讓這些院所的收入會比較高那麼第二個當然希望他的這個收入高是要反映在這個人員的薪資上所以我們現在也在規劃要爭取在這個"},{"start":12820.864,"end":12846.704,"text":"偏鄉有個偏鄉佳績這當然指的是公立醫院的部分公立醫療機構的部分讓他可以有一個偏鄉佳績我們現在在爭取看看能不能提增加這個項目來留產至於說這個稅制的優惠的部分我想這個還涉及到跟這個財政部的討論我們來跟他研究看看那麼這個的可能性怎麼樣"},{"start":12847.324,"end":12868.112,"text":"是我們是希望雙管齊下這是除了能夠透過進貼方式來處理以外那我們也希望透過稅制的方式也一起來讓這些在偏鄉服務的醫事人員都能夠感受到政府對他們的付出另外一份的肯定那第二部分就要麻煩也要請司徒院長"},{"start":12868.963,"end":12895.868,"text":"來一起來討論有關於原住民健康資料庫的整合的部分剛剛趙偉其實也有跟院長做一些討論我們了解其實透過在112年正式施行了原住民原住民主健康法以後呢國會院也在同年底就成立了原住民主健康研究中心在這個中心裡面其實有三項非常重要的核心任務就是"},{"start":12896.69,"end":12922.304,"text":"第一要建構整合性的原住民主健康資料庫的平台來進行健康指標的建設與分析那第二部分就是推動以原住民主為主體的研究涵蓋了這個健康照護模式優化還有這個政策建言的提出第三個部分就是深化原住民主主題性的研究強調這個健康價值跟信念的實踐以實現健康自覺的目標"},{"start":12923.206,"end":12941.33,"text":"那目前中心最重要的任務之一就是要擴展與維護原住民主的健康資料庫剛剛院長有稍微做一些說明其中我們其實非常關注的就是有關於資料的整合還有分析跟運用所以"},{"start":12941.86,"end":12965.279,"text":"也麻煩再請院長確認一下目前在這個數據的串接進度上面橫向串接不曉得完成度如何第一個那第二個就是說在處理過程裡面有沒有碰到法律或者是一些技術上的瓶頸那哪一些是正在進行當中還需要持續來處理的部分那這部分可不可以請院長先做個說明謝謝"},{"start":12967.28,"end":12989.349,"text":"謝謝謝謝委員那目前我們在過去一年半的時間那對資料庫的這個整理的工作事實上是背上我們過去從1998年就開始的從這個原住民族的相關的健保資料庫就醫的這些資訊還有他的包括死因跟癌症檔那我們現在試著再把"},{"start":12990.109,"end":13009.32,"text":"各項的這些資料做串接的時候事先的盤點大概基本的工作我們已經開始在進行串接的工作我們那個包括在我旁邊的我們院裡面的這個莊少委員莊博士他過去幾年非常多的這個對資料庫串接的工作的這個經驗我們已經陸陸續續在做橫向的串接"},{"start":13012.864,"end":13033.629,"text":"那法規的部分有些時候我們會碰到在使用上包括這個我們這個個案的這些隱私包括他這些個案的這些相關連結的部分這個是我們目前還在做有一些是要需要做克服的那技術的部分我們做橫向的連結是沒有問題"},{"start":13034.429,"end":13053.222,"text":"OK我們了解因為這些資料的隱私性甚至敏感度都非常非常的高所以在處理的部分就是一定要讓國務院這邊能夠做非常好的一些保護跟處理那我們知道將來在做這個研究對策應用的部分如何能夠將這個資料分析出來的結果"},{"start":13054.224,"end":13068.863,"text":"很精準的轉換到變成是偏鄉醫療資源數據的決策參考因為我們不知道我們知道這個不僅是讓這個資料庫裡面的數據放在資料庫裡面而已最重要還是後續的應用那我們以SNS篩檢數據為例"},{"start":13071.206,"end":13095.561,"text":"將來如果確定了可以知道哪一些的部分可以配置上有更好的使用的話就非常非常的重要比如說將來在偏鄉還剩的是個篩檢巡迴車的配置我們不知道到底目前哪一個地方是最需要透過這樣的數據庫的分析結果來加以改善那當然如果能夠把其他的部分一起整合進來的話"},{"start":13096.602,"end":13111.583,"text":"包括像兒童篩檢、成人健檢還有五大癌症的篩檢透過偏鄉一站式的服務的政策規劃那這部分可能就是需要運用到這個資料庫那這部分的應用不知道目前有沒有需要再加強哪一個部分"},{"start":13115.082,"end":13137.408,"text":"跟委員報告就是說關於國民健康署的癌症篩檢跟成人健檢的部分我們有針對原名鄉的部分再進行一次分析啦那在成人預防保健的部分喔就是原名鄉的這個使用利用率喔其實比起全國來說都還是來得高的不過在癌症篩檢的部分確實會有一些狀況不太一樣的情形"},{"start":13137.868,"end":13157.208,"text":"像是在大腸癌就跟全國平均是一樣可是在乳癌跟子宮頸癌的部分就比較偏低那我們會再針對這個數據去回饋給縣市跟縣市檢討如何去強化好 謝謝我想數據最重要的意義就是希望有好的運用那我們希望讓這個運用可以符合"},{"start":13157.828,"end":13180.576,"text":"在推政策的過程裡面將來可以有更好的成果謝謝署長也謝謝院長再過來想要跟部長討論就是有關於這個制定慢性病防治法的評估那剛好幾位長官都在這邊我們知道國務院在2023年其實就曾經發布一個後疫時代這個慢性病防治問題與對策那在這個"},{"start":13184.897,"end":13211.387,"text":"相關的這個出版品裡面我們也了解大家掌握到就是慢性病防治策略目前的現況就有下列這個幾個重點包括健保制度的檢討還有如何的調整還有確立這個初級預防評估的指標減少健康不平等引導國人來重視慢性病的風險還有落實慢性病的這個共管那也透過這樣的這個理解以後"},{"start":13211.827,"end":13234.148,"text":"致大慢性病風險的因素的類型有包括這幾個就是生活型態環境與社會性的因素心理健康管理因素還有生物遺傳因素等等那我們也了解這個政策來針對這些因素做處理的時候呢就會提出很多很多的一些相關政策包括"},{"start":13234.648,"end":13256.455,"text":"在健康臺灣裡面賴總統也非常關心如何能夠將山高的防治888計畫可以做落實的更好那其實在國連的十大時運裡面在前十大時運裡面有七項就是跟慢性病是有關係的那在這個七項裡面有五項又是跟山高有很密切的關係"},{"start":13257.575,"end":13275.577,"text":"那整個醫療支出三高本身就耗用了我們的健保高達1700億這是非常重的一個負擔所以如果我們能夠把三高做得非常好如果能夠透過法治法的方式來做相關的規範"},{"start":13276.678,"end":13300.083,"text":"我相信應該會更有成效剛剛我們師分會員也非常的知道說類似的事情我們怎麼樣有更好的處理模式那新人代謝 代謝症候群的部分其實從2022年開始推動到目前有一共有3100家的診所我相信部長在當時署長的時候也努力的去推動"},{"start":13300.883,"end":13329.471,"text":"還有5200位的醫師來參與超過142萬人透過這個方式來改善整體的他的三高的部分所以到目前為止在12萬人已經有至少追蹤管理有6個月以上的時間而且其中有37%是成功改善至少一項的指標還有17.8%成功的脫離了代謝症候選我相信對這個民眾來講應該是非常有感的一個部分"},{"start":13330.171,"end":13346.483,"text":"那在社會處方健康促進大家也都有努力包括部長也在推健康幣等等的措施所以意思就是說在這麼多的防治政策裡面那如果我們參考之前的營養跟健康飲食防治法讓它法治化"},{"start":13347.203,"end":13364.148,"text":"相信相信透過法治化以後對於這些慢性病的防治會有更大的一個幫助那也更有所依選那我們最後來看一下關於起動這個慢性病防治法的原理過程當中如果將來希望能夠更確實的來落實這項"},{"start":13367.589,"end":13387.105,"text":"想法或者是做法的話那以國務院他們在合併跟其他的專家學者在2025年有一個相關希望能夠提卡雷米的台北宣言來落實三高政策的這個幫助包括風險分級精準醫療數位管理跟餘命"},{"start":13387.945,"end":13403.715,"text":"提升了這個願景之下我們認為這個法治法是非常迫切需要的那針對這部分不知道部長有沒有特別的想法或者是有機會來讓這樣的法治法可以有進一步的推動"},{"start":13404.955,"end":13427.384,"text":"好 謝謝委員 不僅是癌症的專家對慢性病的防治也這麼的重視確實這個慢性病已經是我們這個國人的健康負荷裡面比這個癌症的負荷還要重的這disease burden來看是更重那麼確實應該要重視那我們也推出了多項的方案那麼但是要不要"},{"start":13428.304,"end":13453.608,"text":"專法的這個事情因為我們也要考慮到說其實我們很多的慢性病都有一些共通的common factor那像這個菸就是一個common factor所以我們已經有菸害防治法其實它跟這個慢性病有很高的關聯性另外慢性病跟營養也有關係所以我們也有已經有的就是營養及健康飲食促進法也有這個法"},{"start":13453.908,"end":13474.288,"text":"所以我們就要再來看看說這個慢性病防治法這個專法那麼它的scope還有跟其他的這個目前我們的整個相關的法律制定跟政策推動上那麼它的這個相關聯繫這我們來研究看看我們找一些專家學者大家來討論全盤的來做這個盤點這樣"},{"start":13478.152,"end":13489.967,"text":"好 那就大家一起努力好 謝謝副市長 謝謝委員謝謝王正信委員現在除了臨時提案 既有三案請一併宣讀"},{"start":13493.349,"end":13517.158,"text":"臨時提案 議案請衛生福利部會商財政部研擬醫療法第八十八條修正草案增訂第三項規定醫事人員服務於離島偏鄉各級醫院及衛生所之部分收入免於計入年度因課稅所得額之修法或政策可行性並請於三個月內將研議書面報告送交立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提案委員王振旭 原署委員林悅請黃秀芳"},{"start":13522.435,"end":13538.482,"text":"二 请卫生福利部研拟委托研究案或国务院论坛等适当形式启动慢性病防治法立法之相关研究针对实质法案框架及具体内容进行研拟并提出修法草案提案委员王振旭 联署委员林月 请黄秀芳"},{"start":13540.894,"end":13565.892,"text":"三 衛生福利部國民健康署原因發布之一四年青少年吸菸行為調查報告迄今仍未公布衛生福利部因緊述公布一四年最新調查數據已視群疑並於一個月內研擬會同教育部內政部等相關單位成立青少年跨部會電子菸及新興菸品防治行動小組並針對違法販售取締校園防治及毒品溯源"},{"start":13566.693,"end":13583.562,"text":"查緝提出具體行動方案與時程表向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告提案委員陳金輝 邱慧如 邱振鈞宣讀完畢請問第一案行政單位有意見第一案我們就遵照辦理"},{"start":13587.031,"end":13591.754,"text":"針對我國青少年電子菸使用率與併用率於今年快速翻倍"},{"start":13618.52,"end":13629.488,"text":"經查國人十大死因中預期項與慢性病有關有鑑於此政府長期投注資源訂定並執行慢性病防治相關策略對策"},{"start":13630.388,"end":13656.723,"text":"衛福部近年逐步推動代謝症候群防治計畫、大家醫計畫、健保論人濟酬事辦計畫等透過照顧品質提升、早期介入及預防等有效掌握並減低國人慢性病風險在賴總統健康台灣願景下已啟動三高888防治計畫在未來針對慢性病風險因素之一的生活型態"},{"start":13657.443,"end":13683.277,"text":"透过社会处方健康促进之政策推动降低因不良生活形态滞生之风险将是因应及防治重点国内工协学会以及专家学者并有团体等对于政府如何以更高层级因应慢性病防治制定更全面且实质的防治对策具高度期待"},{"start":13683.797,"end":13703.646,"text":"此外针对在多项防治政策落实之基础下推动慢性病防治法治化之可行性及必要性亦持续有许多讨论及建议原此请卫生福利部严礼以专家会议委托研究案或国卫院论坛"},{"start":13704.386,"end":13725.275,"text":"等適當形式啟動慢性病防治法立法之相關研究針對實質法案框架及具體內容進行研擬以上是所以署長意思就是說除了我們所的內容有研究要跟國務院論壇以外還要"},{"start":13726.776,"end":13727.276,"text":"第三案"},{"start":13751.329,"end":13769.347,"text":"修正修正的部分我們建議修正在一個月改成三個月然後在後續研擬會同教育部內政部等跨部會相關單位就青少年電子煙及新興煙品防治"},{"start":13771.329,"end":13795.388,"text":"並針對違法取締販售所以增加 把跨部會挪到內政部等後面然後把行動小組的部分刪除可以 謝謝好 謝謝委員那謝謝提案委員 謝謝行政單位那我們就修正通過好 臨時提案全部處理完畢接下來繼續詢答 請謝一芬委員發言"},{"start":13812.53,"end":13815.374,"text":"謝謝主席 我想要請石部長石部長早安喔電太高了"},{"start":13829.336,"end":13843.195,"text":"市部長早安我昨天去看了我們彰化縣的全齡的長照就是照護中心就是有拖鷹啦 有失智啦還有日照等等就是一些住宿型的 整合型的"},{"start":13844.136,"end":13872.407,"text":"未來這樣子的一個就是說機構因為你們衛福部也有補助嘛那未來是不是會繼續支持彰化縣做這樣子一個整合型的應該是跟委員說明說前面我們有一些前瞻計畫的補助然後就讓各縣市來提所以有一些就是在做這個長照的這個中心的整建因為彰化縣的進度都很好嘛有一點落後啦彰化"},{"start":13873.988,"end":13893.886,"text":"哪裡落後啊很好耶其他才落後他應該是這樣我們是核准最多案的彰化縣是核准最多案的也因為他是最多案所以他有一些工程就落後了所以我們在幫他做預算的保留我們有把他的預算保留下來所以他可以繼續做"},{"start":13894.626,"end":13919.251,"text":"那未來呢因為你知道嗎現在第一個就是零到六歲國家養嘛然後再來就是那個高齡化的這個人口增加嘛那所以這樣子一個整合型的就是照護機構那事實上就是有存在必要那是不是應該對你要你們要執行就是醫學區一日照這樣子的一個"},{"start":13920.671,"end":13936.843,"text":"一個目標嘛那再加上這樣整合型的又可以拖陰然後又可以拖一些就是說高齡的照護那對於上班族的家庭來講就是很需要的"},{"start":13938.003,"end":13959.208,"text":"跟委員說明其實在這個一學區一日照這個部分其實彰化縣做得很好它的那個覆蓋率其實將近百分之百的達成了那等到我們下一階段我們再來評估看它還有什麼需要像剛剛我們提的是這種比較屬於整合型的甚至它有這個輕盈共照的這種概念"},{"start":13959.848,"end":13983.601,"text":"對 現在這個有啊 因為它有拖音啊對不對 二歲以下的拖音那再加上失智啊還有一些就是日照的一個 對 一個日照的機構啊那這是整合型的那這也是符合未來就是說高齡社會以及就是三明治的家族等等就是的世代喔 它需要照顧小孩"},{"start":13985.362,"end":13995.667,"text":"或是有家裡有高齡的長輩等等都很需要這樣的機構那以就是說目前就是彰化我看到了好幾個機構他都執行的蠻好的那是不是就是未來能夠繼續的協助"},{"start":13997.579,"end":14016.566,"text":"對 如果有這個需求的時候我們再來協助應該是這樣講他還有一些案子還沒有執行完他繼續執行我們已經有幫他把那個預算保留住了所以他會繼續執行等他這邊執行完再有需求的時候我們再來研議繼續來協助好不好繼續協助彰化縣做這個部分好不好"},{"start":14020.828,"end":14048.561,"text":"那再來就是偏鄉醫療的部分嘛我也是一直極力跟那個就是部長說啊我們20啊2級有沒有對不對就是是一個就是那邊都幾乎都沒有夜間急診的地方那是不是對於這些偏鄉醫療的人力資源那是不是公司共同協力來協助就是偏鄉的醫生能夠早日就是說早日得到那個"},{"start":14049.241,"end":14064.707,"text":"相關的人力的這個缺口好不好我了解這個彰化也是有一個狀況就是他的醫療比較集中在北彰那南彰的部分的資源是比較弱也只有大概兩家主要的小型醫院"},{"start":14065.647,"end":14080.694,"text":"我們已經也都把他納入在這個健保的燈塔計畫給他保障不過他還是有人力的困難那個負責醫師院長年紀也有了所以我們來看看連結其他的體系的資源去進駐我們來給他"},{"start":14082.615,"end":14097.205,"text":"他相關的醫療的人員進一步的給予相關的協助在獎勵的部分讓他可以在囊張這個地方可以維持下來包含健保的獎勵措施整合起來做"},{"start":14099.207,"end":14114.463,"text":"就搭配那個醫學中心的計畫還有未來我們公費生的服務跟健保的這個保障措施這樣還有現在在推動就是兆元投資台灣了你知道嗎"},{"start":14115.325,"end":14130.93,"text":"兆元投資台灣對啊就是希望說公認性嗎您說的是不是不是讓就是說我們一些就是受險業的資金等等可以留在台灣投資就是相關的我們的產業那就這個當然就他們的風險係數的誘因來講他們就很希望說可以投資長照的機構那"},{"start":14142.094,"end":14151.353,"text":"就這部分法令法規有沒有什麼樣子的協助當然是目前的法規長照法人"},{"start":14152.535,"end":14175.402,"text":"受險業者是可以投資只是他有一些限制啦我了解他的限制上讓他們覺得像是他沒有辦法掌握他雖然這個投資有限制然後對這個長照機構的這個治理權他也有被限制嘛所以這個部分我們再來研議看看這個部分有沒有辦法解決就是說現在我了解很多的這個保險"},{"start":14177.583,"end":14190.659,"text":"保險的那個資源都回到這個國內來嘛因為就是第一個啦你如果要發展亞之中心或者是要發展這樣子的一個因為你看最近"},{"start":14191.846,"end":14208.839,"text":"那個我們的金融業在中東地區的曝險是2.35兆那你要藉著這種情況下讓資金可以回流到台灣那你要有一個適切性的尤其是像保險的這樣他們需要有一些就是說長期性的"},{"start":14210.56,"end":14233.987,"text":"我們現在的方向是讓他來興建興建硬體的部分然後再交給專業團體來做營運他就可以有租金的收入甚至讓他直接投資在長照法人裡面我想這個應該我們再瞭解看看他還有什麼"},{"start":14235.768,"end":14246.378,"text":"這個找這保險業者來談一談看看他們還有什麼樣覺得還要再調整的不然政策上是目前是這個方向好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝謝謝謝委員謝謝謝一鋒委員現在休息用餐"},{"start":14274.526,"end":14275.812,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":14280.41,"end":14281.951,"text":"這裏有個大廈,這裏有個餐廳。"},{"start":14305.253,"end":14322.858,"text":"我聽他說是有偷光的用途,大家可以接受,所以才會有這些審問,如果說偷光都沒有什麼用途。現在強盜的專業性很高,他說有四次控制,你要抵抗這樣的想法,你希望平安法開放要保單光嗎?"},{"start":14328.2,"end":14329.421,"text":"但是他就沒有辦法"},{"start":14348.368,"end":14353.431,"text":"對啦 安慰如果你們不要的話 同時一般我們都會有過程當中 拿東西給朋友吃"},{"start":14373.863,"end":14375.184,"text":"這裏有個大廈,這裏有個餐廳"},{"start":14403.431,"end":14403.911,"text":"這裏是隔壁大廈"},{"start":14431.391,"end":14453.916,"text":"鞠躬 鞠躬"},{"start":14462.637,"end":14464.115,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":14473.506,"end":14473.526,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":14498.662,"end":14510.732,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的餐廳"},{"start":14523.346,"end":14523.366,"text":"好"},{"start":14546.307,"end":14546.929,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":14556.645,"end":14565.249,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":14588.298,"end":14588.478,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":14609.87,"end":14609.89,"text":"謝謝觀看"},{"start":14630.102,"end":14630.863,"text":"嗯,就是這個,"},{"start":14669.373,"end":14676.177,"text":"我以為你也沒有吵我以為你沒有吵我以為你沒有吵"},{"start":14680.179,"end":14681.159,"text":"那是"},{"start":14704.405,"end":14713.968,"text":"還沒交報告還沒交報告還沒交報告還沒交報告還沒交報告還沒交報告還沒交報告還沒交報告"},{"start":14731.425,"end":14752.346,"text":"呃呃呃"},{"start":14762.057,"end":14762.077,"text":"是"},{"start":14774.363,"end":14775.443,"text":"所以是否被這碗的"},{"start":14800.489,"end":14801.15,"text":"所以25億的總計會不會變"},{"start":14816.451,"end":14818.352,"text":"他字頭字頭下降了"},{"start":14836.031,"end":14851.924,"text":"所以現在人家當最後核定 該料總結核定該製作 製作組組會增加那樣嗎那最近什麼已經有核定了 什麼最近正在成為核定核定正在成為核定你要立即核定"},{"start":14866.403,"end":14872.064,"text":"一個合併啦 還是條例合併喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔"},{"start":14894.29,"end":14898.612,"text":"二二二二二二二二二二二二二二二二"},{"start":14922.326,"end":14939.02,"text":"對阿 我報考啦 阿這離島的 離島的前面有辦法他不會讓人家都亂 離島的 離島的 讓人家上去離島阿他說你再度研討 阿就有辦法我覺得離島是比較可以做先跑的那我另去他離島的人 我兩次都會去"},{"start":14949.909,"end":14951.15,"text":"就給他們來一桌飯"},{"start":14978.183,"end":15006.488,"text":"我自己覺得說,幸運的能夠跟這個人溫馨一點,對,然後我會覺得,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,"},{"start":15015.839,"end":15016.98,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":15033.134,"end":15033.415,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":15046.328,"end":15047.069,"text":"對,我就想說"},{"start":15068.799,"end":15069.781,"text":"這裏是沙發油廠"},{"start":15092.329,"end":15093.009,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":15122.857,"end":15133.711,"text":"这不确定"},{"start":15135.052,"end":15156.899,"text":"這裏有兩種餐廳,白色的餐廳,黑色的餐廳,黑色的餐廳,黑色的餐廳,黑色的餐廳,黑色的餐廳,黑色的餐廳"},{"start":15161.178,"end":15161.198,"text":"喔"},{"start":15173.68,"end":15174.121,"text":"好久不見"},{"start":15193.563,"end":15193.943,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":15208.86,"end":15212.502,"text":"先給我 不好意思 我要離開現場誰來的"},{"start":15234.436,"end":15234.716,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":15265.577,"end":15267.098,"text":"副市長 副市長"},{"start":15287.789,"end":15288.209,"text":"嗯嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":15315.772,"end":15315.792,"text":"鞭筍"},{"start":15346.053,"end":15346.394,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":15363.067,"end":15366.689,"text":"好,我們看這裏就行了,謝謝你,謝謝你,謝謝你,謝謝你,謝謝你,謝謝你,謝謝你,謝謝你,謝謝你,"},{"start":15390.704,"end":15397.587,"text":"這幾乎真的還好,只要挖到幾乎就好那就是鋒湖,布里鋒湖一邊的"},{"start":15425.033,"end":15425.073,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":15459.441,"end":15459.781,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":15488.73,"end":15490.931,"text":"我比較喜歡你我還是比較喜歡你沒有說比較誰啦比較喜歡"},{"start":15538.784,"end":15540.185,"text":"現在開始開會繼續詢問請陳昭智委員發言"},{"start":15549.192,"end":15555.626,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長 部長沒吃飯在吃米糕部長辛苦了 不好意思"},{"start":15558.732,"end":15584.876,"text":"部長謝謝你陳委員好好久不見不好意思我會繼續出現在這一組的那之前我們在審查那個身心障礙者權益保護法的時候因為大部分的時候是呂次長出席所以您未必就是我以前了解當時有討論情形那我自己當時也有一些想法我今天稍微跟部長這個稍微前情提要一下我當時提過一個觀念就是輔具的目的輔具的目的就是一個這個補足功能上的不足"},{"start":15585.816,"end":15605.868,"text":"所以就是說讓需求者都能夠持續的生活而且能夠接受這個支持這個觀點那從這個角度來看我想請教部長您認為這個無障礙計程車是不是也可以算是一種移動性的輔具無障礙計程車它可以幫助需要的人可以順利抵達那個治療場所"},{"start":15607.076,"end":15628.197,"text":"不障礙計程車您覺得您同意我這個說法嗎因為輔具我們現在大家定義在都還是以個人使用為主你這個是運輸工具但是也是讓他去能夠順利治療我的意思說我現在最近接到一位家長的陳情那他的孩子是罕見疾病但是他是那種多重障礙的孩子"},{"start":15629.378,"end":15648.469,"text":"那他就需要長期每天的一個復健包括職能的這個治療等等來維持他的身體的機能就是對這樣的家庭來說他的復健他不是可有可無的而是說他為了維持每天的生活機能他必須成為他生命的一部分他必須每天都做這樣的一個努力"},{"start":15650.97,"end":15669.659,"text":"所以復健不是這個可有可無我剛剛才提到說我這個觀點您同意嗎對他來說他就是必須如此要多重障礙多重的功能障礙那我想先向部長確認一個問題那請問現在長照交通接送服務是不是只能在往返這個醫療院所如果部長您如果不熟可以請教"},{"start":15670.479,"end":15697.561,"text":"我們目前的長照交通車主要就是長照服務據點還有據點也可以可是部長現在很多人的狀況是需求者其實是在社區社區治療所進行復健譬如說職能治療所復健物理治療所但是再請教部長這些依法設立而且專業服務的提供復健功能的治療所目前是不是被長照交通接送法排除在外"},{"start":15698.363,"end":15724.08,"text":"目前它是就醫接送啦我們現在長照的那個幾字婦是就醫接送啦另外也會去送長照據點啦就是照中心那些它也會送但是目前它是被排除在外嘛那但是剛剛你提的是說應該是這樣講它是屬於這個像物理治療所啦那麼像這些屬於這個治療所的部分我們來研議看看如果"},{"start":15724.38,"end":15729.421,"text":"因為我們現在是把醫療定位在醫院其實還沒有開放到治療所的部分我想提醒部長現在就有一個很大的制度矛盾你們推的這個長照3.0強調什麼社區共榮圈照顧那都希望可以在社區就近取得資源來接受照顧但是卻只限於醫療院所反而把社區裡的治療資源先暫時排除在外如果一個孩子部長"},{"start":15753.906,"end":15783.343,"text":"他在醫療院所治療所他可以接受他可以享受這個就使用長照交通接受但是他到社區的職能治療所接受復健治療所他卻不能夠使用這樣的制度有符合長照3.0的這個往這個社區照顧這個部分我們可以來檢討因為過去的想像是比較單純就是說因為在這些物理治療的時候呢他需要有醫師的處方因為要醫師的處方的關係他就是以診所或者是醫院為主啦"},{"start":15783.823,"end":15799.23,"text":"但是我現在理解說有些可能他以釋出處方的方式在治療所而且這個不會很多啦這個我請長照師研議看看如果他的需求上是有需求的話我們把它開放就OK"},{"start":15800.151,"end":15814.645,"text":"這個概念是一樣至少要先納入檢討好嗎你先檢討那這個檢討可不可以盡快也讓我知道那不等我還是要談到這個肺癌的部分那當然早期發現很重要那社會上現在出現很大的疑慮當然大家都看過高志文教授的這個文章"},{"start":15816.066,"end":15838.184,"text":"他擔心說過去十幾年肺炎切除這個是個大手術那他可能出現過度診斷或太多不必要的手術那我想請教衛福有沒有掌握真實狀況有沒有要回頭去檢討就是你篩檢的部分跟艾登跟健保申報的資料那你有掌握過去十多年來肺炎切除手術的一些"},{"start":15839.044,"end":15867.332,"text":"我有請這個健保特別把它分析其實這個肺的這個切除它是分成三種一種是整個大葉的切除一個是就是那個分葉一個是就是氣狀的切除小的的話它是做另外才來做到這個最大才是做那現在看起來大葉切除的部分的個案增加不多"},{"start":15868.693,"end":15884.132,"text":"增加不多所以表示都是找到小的我知道找到的都是一些比較小的這個Nodule Legion去切所以切出來的大概都是分葉或者是器狀切除部長你也是那個"},{"start":15885.073,"end":15891.338,"text":"國健署今天是副署長在這邊你也明明都是專家我們當然希望經過篩檢然後診斷然後你的治療可以證明確實他是惡性我想重點是這個所以跟委員說明就是說如果是現在按照國健署的篩檢的條件然後動完手術的確診率大概是1.2%"},{"start":15908.65,"end":15933.902,"text":"所以跟世界上的文獻大概是相近但是因為有一些現在是自費或者是地方政府補助他那個快寬鬆了那非常好所以我們還是需要去強化這個指引的遵從性以前我說你只管健保現在你必須多管自費醫療你也多管那您就說要做一些那我也希望儘快看到這個資料不好意思再再來是一個比較"},{"start":15934.802,"end":15948.554,"text":"麻煩的問題喔 少子女化對策這個行動計畫您剪幾天再講因為立法院沒有審查預算啦所以有些項目沒有辦法推動那部長你的意思是說如果審查預算過了那你就能夠挽救這個持續這個"},{"start":15952.057,"end":15975.563,"text":"破底的生育率嗎也應該這麼說啦跟委員講得更清楚一點就是說這個少子化的問題當然很嚴重然後因素也很多但是呢因為這個今年呢行政院有核定了這個少子少子女化對策行動計畫的2.0那裡面有擴大包含像新手爸媽的寫手包含了這個"},{"start":15976.863,"end":16004.456,"text":"我們在這個過去的生育這個補助的部分把它拉高還有很多很多項目其實我們就沒有辦法繼續去推動我給你看一張圖他有做證明就是說可能不能輕易的在談總預算你看這個圖是真的你都瞭解這個圖大家都很熟悉你看一直從2016年開始下滑那現在前一年更很可怕再也不回頭之前還回頭了一下這個是真實的部分那請你看因為你提到總預算"},{"start":16005.896,"end":16020.625,"text":"我針對立委責任我還是要告訴你當然總預算審不審這個有它的背景可是你來看從2016年民進黨執政開始到2025年去年你看那個三讀日應該不錯吧你稍微看一下這很快啊是不是都不錯對不對"},{"start":16022.006,"end":16040.541,"text":"還不錯啊就是他的那個三讀日的時間啊可是這樣這條線照樣往下走你這個人這個少子化對這個投入了幾千億你知道投入幾千億嗎從2018年到2025年你知道投入幾千億目前是編列到1200億左右我是指這個你概括承受一下2018年到2025年"},{"start":16043.163,"end":16062.604,"text":"官方數字是5931億很可怕喔很可怕所以台灣的年輕人他不會因為你預算過了我就生嘛你預算沒過我就不生小孩嘛所以老實說應該現在要檢討的不是這個東西因為我現在也在等待一個醫學奇蹟啦因為當然你也必須說有很多因素"},{"start":16062.904,"end":16077.634,"text":"你不能說預算沒有過所以我沒辦法做這個超子化政策這個等於要創造醫學奇蹟你知道我現在等著看一個醫學奇蹟叫做什麼呢2030年你們的癌症死亡率要降低三分之一我等著看這個醫學奇蹟會不會發生我定義它是個奇蹟"},{"start":16079.856,"end":16101.532,"text":"一定會下降那你剛剛可以理解那個2018到2020我們花了5930億在這個少子化政策但是結果出生率還是慘不忍睹嘛到去年為止慘不忍睹嘛那少子化辦公室空的假的虛擬的啊根本就不存在啊那是偶爾的開會不定期不定時又不檢討的一個會議這個執政長要檢討的真的不是預算因為預算夠多啦但是"},{"start":16107.296,"end":16121.112,"text":"他只是想說政策哪有但是因為委員只教是說還不夠多啊5930但是你看到年齡下降啊就算你說很努力用到對的地方我們現在也還沒有去了解用錢用到哪我問很多立委他們都不知道但是你看這條線"},{"start":16122.393,"end":16129.418,"text":"對不對現在是最鐵的事實這個是事實就是花五千多億還結果結果死意思是說我們還沒有所以我才說請部長不曾申供預算還沒來所以我們沒辦法做應該是這樣講預算沒有省沒有辦法讓我們一氣地的計畫推動這個也是事實"},{"start":16141.966,"end":16167.798,"text":"那麼生育率的下降呢還沒有止跌回升也是事實這兩個不見得有絕對的關係但是呢沒有預算是絕對沒有辦法推動的但是我只告訴你過去2015年蓋瓜承受嘛我有陳理官2010年來預算三讀照樣很順利很好的時間通過但是結果還是慘不忍睹所以部長檢討一下到底有什麼方法可以讓大家生小孩好嗎"},{"start":16168.758,"end":16172.539,"text":"好包括我的人工生殖法案好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝陳昭志委員接下來請鄭天才委員發言好"},{"start":16205.876,"end":16221.709,"text":"主席有請部長有請施部長政委也好部長辛苦了還有所有的官員都辛苦了這個我還再提一下預算法第54條"},{"start":16224.4,"end":16245.972,"text":"原來的預算可以繼續執行新興的計畫或者是新增的只要行政院送來立法院同意就可以動之所以都有解套的方法這個也讓衛福部瞭解好我們看今天的議題這個沒有辦法"},{"start":16256.263,"end":16273.593,"text":"好接下來下一張這個全國跟原住民的平均移民落差依然的很大這個113年度是7.54的落差下一張這個原住民族健康法112年6月21號公佈施行公佈施行現在已經兩年半多了"},{"start":16286.505,"end":16311.316,"text":"這個有了這個法我們有非常多的期待當然當初在審查的時候並沒有如我們原住民族立委的滿意但是畢竟還是通過了好我們看這個第二條中央主管機關應指定專責單位辦理原住民族健康事務"},{"start":16313.086,"end":16340.558,"text":"在你們的報告裡面特別提到指定婦理及健康照護師為原住民族健康事務專責單位事實上就是原來的婦理及健康照護師之下的原住民族籬討建設科一個科"},{"start":16341.994,"end":16364.802,"text":"部長也要讓你知道包括其他的衛福部的人員在過去台灣省政府時代在台灣省政府時代就是一個科原住民的部分就是一個科跟其他的都是平行的就是在那個"},{"start":16366.384,"end":16394.781,"text":"那個什麼過去的省政府聽促一級單位就是科啦所以以前就是一個科到今省之後事實上是沒有成長上次來是退步然後有了原住民族健康法之後仍然維持一個科我們看這個當初的三讀通過"},{"start":16396.414,"end":16421.073,"text":"原住民主健康法112年5月26日三讀通過的時候國民黨團及民進黨團共同所提的附帶決議特別提到請衛生福利部研議設置這個原住民主健康室或原住民主健康照護發展中心"},{"start":16423.117,"end":16433.283,"text":"特別也讓部長跟我們的同仁了解中興它是一個機構它就不會受到這個"},{"start":16436.823,"end":16465.169,"text":"一個部只能幾個師那個限制中心也不會受到幾個一個部只能有幾個或是前中華民國中央單位只能有幾個署或是局這些的一個限制七十個或七十個不會有那個限制中心機構不在那個限制裡面所以你們在規劃的時候不要受制於那個"},{"start":16466.987,"end":16485.469,"text":"我們是很遺憾的這個行政院在今年1月6號送了這個兒少及家庭支持署的組織法長期照顧及社會發展署的組織法"},{"start":16486.875,"end":16513.641,"text":"還有一個中心的組織法還有一個研究院的組織法就是沒有原住民的部分因為當初有提到是不是可以設原住民族健康照護發展中心結果也沒有這是我們覺得說非常遺憾好既然"},{"start":16515.345,"end":16536.19,"text":"有了這個長期照顧級社會發展署原來有一個長期照顧師他提升為一個署了那我們有就是請部長可以決定就把這個原住民族"},{"start":16539.11,"end":16565.467,"text":"的部分提高為私的層級可以嗎好跟委員報告在這個原住民族健康法通過之後其實我們也有不少的進展那第一個我們在國衛院裡面就成立了原住民族的這個研究中心這個健康法裡面有名對所以這個我們也落實了那也做了不少的東西那第二個我們也成立了這個原住民健康政策會"},{"start":16566.847,"end":16593.939,"text":"廣納了我們的這個代表專家然後我們現在把這個位階提高那麼再來的話這個科我相信未來也會擴大這個師未來在扮演這個援助民族健康的角色也會更重所以也請委員放心我們未來可以逐步的擴大可以趕快做了可以開始再提報"},{"start":16595.18,"end":16618.567,"text":"然後我的所謂的提報是人事單位還有業務單位要提報給部長來批核接下來有關中低收入老人假押的補助請問一下部長今年度衛福部就不執行了嗎"},{"start":16620.168,"end":16630.116,"text":"中低收入戶老人假牙補助假牙的補助這應該是哪一個業務單位好說明一下"},{"start":16632.165,"end":16660.159,"text":"地方政府來處理吧應該是這樣吧你來說明一下那個你是哪一個說明一下沒關係講清楚說明白根本報告今年度開始就是回到地方由地方政府來辦理那目前了解的結果各縣市政府都有繼續持續的辦理下去這個我要特別請這個我們公務員我也是公務員出身第一個我先問你我先請教你"},{"start":16661.463,"end":16689.315,"text":"什麼時候發文給地方政府的包委員這個部分我沒有掌握那麼的清楚因為我不在業務單位裡面這個部分我們可以再了解以後再給委員這邊我的意思是說這個新聞你們發布的新聞已經是今年二月了我們從預算的編列來看根本就是來不及為什麼呢以地方政府的話編列預算"},{"start":16691.092,"end":16719.201,"text":"也都是去年的115年度的預算也都是去年的八九月就一定送到議會了所以這個部分根本是來不及何況這個因為中低收入畢竟是肉市所以這個部分這個沒有在跟地方政府先溝通之前自己就決定這個不太好另外"},{"start":16721.664,"end":16748.383,"text":"事實上我們看長照基金長照服務發展基金強化及延緩弱勢族群口腔衰弱計畫然後包括投注於原住民族地區的強化及延緩弱勢族群口腔這個計畫都有啊經費也有啊如果我們看這個長照服務發展基金"},{"start":16754.298,"end":16778.804,"text":"115年度的預算數比114年度的預算數還多很多如果你回頭去看你們的公務預算也沒有減少所以這個部分這個請衛福部不要輕易的就尤其是弱勢的部分至少你要下放的話也要跟地方政府"},{"start":16779.344,"end":16800.255,"text":"有所溝通因為這個預算用的是長照基金所以我們有持續在編列但是公務預算的部分確實受到財化法的影響所以才會做調整所以本來那個假牙的部分其實是公務預算的部分去支應的那個部長"},{"start":16801.954,"end":16815.766,"text":"尤其是原住民族的部分因為原住民的部分不是只有在原鄉我們現在在都會期已經52%點多了在都會期而且我們又有55歲"},{"start":16817.908,"end":16844.978,"text":"的那個部分那其地方政府未必會能夠符合會去比照原理你的政策好不好好我們會督促這件事情因為地方的預算也增多了嘛所以我們會來督促這件事情但是弱勢的部分盡量不要去處理那個輕易的我們會瞭解瞭解謝謝委員的提醒謝謝鄭天才委員接下來請黃孟凱委員"},{"start":16853.452,"end":16876.39,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請我們石部長我請石部長部長好部長好部長本席過去到現在一直很關心就是我們電子菸的問題我想你也知道今天我看到有個臨時提案我也覺得非常認同然後我簽名但是內容的部分還可以更積極為什麼因為"},{"start":16878.467,"end":16902.78,"text":"如同部長你瞭解或說我們國建署這邊的瞭解狀況青少年一般民眾會買有機會購買到電子煙主要管道是什麼因為我們電子煙是禁止的是我們那個其實照理講不應該在台灣社會有任何販賣的行為因為它就是違法非法的好那但是有沒有這樣的樣態有那主要的取得管道是什麼"},{"start":16904.953,"end":16924.183,"text":"我想一個當然用一般常識來講一個就是走私販賣那另外一個就是從網路取得對 網路取得走私販賣走私販賣一個一個跟你講說我這邊有貨要不要這種屬於傳統老派而且一對一不容易拓展主要還是網路嘛那本席之前就已經有提過就說"},{"start":16925.543,"end":16943.182,"text":"能夠增加溝通成本不要那麼輕易的讓民眾隨便搜尋都搜尋得到所以過去我提出來說你如果說打電子菸三個字Google還可以出現人家官方網站然後買千送版加會員省五十幾十種口味在上面好"},{"start":16944.335,"end":16970.771,"text":"但衛福部有沒有做事我也先稍微肯定有因為本席已經職權快一年的時間現在Google在打電子煙三個字確實比較少沒有說完全找不到有些時候完全找不到因為我差不多每個禮拜每兩個禮拜就去搜尋一次有些時候是找不到有些時候是在第二頁第三頁它已經不再像以前一樣大剌剌放在第一頁但我們一直沒有辦法根治的原因是什麼"},{"start":16971.604,"end":16997.429,"text":"沒有辦法遮蔽那本席先講因為剛剛在交通委員會我也詢問了速發部長我另外一個議題就是前一個禮拜新北市府因為衛福部有通報性私密影像的影片應該要下架所以有成人影音網站請新北市去下架那下架一天之後這一個網站他又另起爐灶並且還講是說這裡管不到大家來喔"},{"start":16998.985,"end":17024.391,"text":"好 那我們現在要問的是我們衛福部跟速發部的通報系統能不能針對這個網站上面至少一般正常的搜尋我不是講駭客什麼你很厲害那邊按網然後去搜尋 不是但一般民眾最直覺的上Google上Yahoo他去搜尋的時候你不要看到這些非法網站我想這是做得到的吧"},{"start":17025.231,"end":17044.691,"text":"就是說跟委員說明我們第一個就是在行政作業上強化跟速發部的合作來強化下架跟遮蔽的反應這個我們會來做第二個我們也研擬要修這個厭害防治法把這個電商平台強化它的管理責任它應該也要有這種"},{"start":17045.905,"end":17069.731,"text":"是自動要把這個其實電商平台譬如說蝦皮譬如說這些電商平台其實你真的相對少這個本席因為持續都有在做了解所以說相對少但是我們現在講的是它是直接變成它成立一個官方網站Google可以搜尋到然後它直接告訴你甚至它還跟你講現在沒有警語喔放心這個包裹外面不會有任何的識別"},{"start":17070.352,"end":17076.188,"text":"所以你買了之後即便你穿校服去7-11去全家領貨他也不會要求你身份證"},{"start":17077.318,"end":17103.326,"text":"那這樣就有問題啦就變成是說他取得的管道某種程度上廣義上還比一般的合法止煙合法加熱煙還要更容易因為你防不勝防那速發部剛剛部長跟我講他還誇胸脯保證說速發部現在已經跟這個Google跟Meta都已經談好了兩個小時內通報之後就可以讓他但是衛福部要有行政作業流程換言之現在是卡在衛福部這邊"},{"start":17106.836,"end":17125.649,"text":"這個我們來加強跟那個速發部的合作讓這個行政的銜接更密切我想這件事情不是黨派不是朝野而是對全國2300萬人共同的身體健康今天提到為什麼加勒菸如此惡劣跟重要是因為它有可能變成是毒品的載具"},{"start":17127.27,"end":17155.51,"text":"你如果說成為毒品的載具的話那就是毒價這一些部分你就更防不勝防所以我們今天要的是源頭管理你說後續要什麼違法取締 校園防治 毒品溯源這個有沒有在做 其實都有在做但我覺得最根本是你讓他買不到違法的東西本來就不應該在台灣可以輕易的購買這個是最基本的ABC嘛好 部長所以這樣講那麼多因為我真的已經質詢了一年了"},{"start":17156.601,"end":17182.683,"text":"我們石部長的魄力能不能讓我看到我們一定一定這樣做好所以跟速發布那你們讓我知道然後我要看具體的成果就是未來我真的因為這已經是太多我們地方的國小國中家長們都跟我們反映我每一次去家長會我都跟他們講說我這一定會努力是因為這個是要保護我們孩童不要第一步受到好不好好"},{"start":17183.243,"end":17210.212,"text":"好 那部長我給予這個會期的期待希望你可以拿出成果那另外一個小議題我稍微抱歉一分鐘我們淡海新市政啊大家一直講是說因為淡水現在20萬人那今天也跟今天的主題有相關就是偏鄉地區其實你想說新北市我們的北海岸石門山芝夢城村也算偏鄉啊人口真的不多老人家居多醫療的需求多"},{"start":17210.753,"end":17215.352,"text":"那現在大家也講說那淡海新市政因為今年5月12號丹江大橋要通車"},{"start":17216.516,"end":17242.151,"text":"未來淡海新市鎮可以發展那我們也要求說內政部在做二期的通盤檢討要把醫療專區放進去那現在這個部分但後續有醫療專區之後到底是什麼醫院來這個可能就需要中央地方一起來協助因為有地了我相信未來如果說那個醫療專區真的可以做起來可以甚至北海岸變成是一個陽光風景明媚的長照休閒這個醫療專區醫療"},{"start":17246.246,"end":17273.099,"text":"甚至度假村等等的我覺得這可能都是解決我們未來長照的需求問題所以在這個部分是不是能夠請部長哲成看哪一個我們中央部會也跟我們新北衛生局進一步的溝通看怎麼樣在這個議題上可以往前進一步好 我會請那個議事司跟那個新北衛生局 副司長笑容滿面的 非常好來跟這個衛生局了解一下它整體的規劃方向"},{"start":17274.199,"end":17292.23,"text":"衛生局陳潤秋局長我想也都是我們醫療專業的老朋友了是所以說在這個議題上面我想我們就真的拜託我們副市長跟我們局長這邊可以溝通一下那本席會再追這個進度好不好但是我希望是說能夠看到因為這是我們北海岸鄉親我們來了解一下他整個這個所謂的專區的規劃是"},{"start":17294.131,"end":17312.43,"text":"他現在初步的概念是說會訂專區那未來可以考慮採取比如說BOT還是OT的方式但是重點是要有人來經營那還有說是不是做醫院因為醫院的話可能就要有門診中心有急診中心24小時待命但是現在又講是說因為缺工的問題"},{"start":17313.371,"end":17334.458,"text":"也不一定有那麼多量能這些我們都理解但我先講說至少我們第一步專區取得之後我們媒合或者是說來引進更多的不同可能性讓北海岸地方真的可以變成是大家醫療需求解決那還有也可以做未來的你說國際醫療觀光也不一定不可行啊"},{"start":17334.958,"end":17362.808,"text":"淡江大橋完畢之後未來桃園機場下來然後走這個相關我們的一個交通建設到淡水其實半個小時40分鐘就可以到所以我們也期待說未來它是另外一個產業的一個聚落好不好好這個就拜託部長可以責成我們複思一下我們來了解一起努力這個很好那本席也會再持續追這個議題希望它可以變成是中央地方共同合作的一個新亮點好感謝部長謝謝謝謝洪委員謝謝洪孟凱委員"},{"start":17365.598,"end":17382.036,"text":"接下來請許富奎委員謝謝主席 有請我們石部長有請石崇亮部長"},{"start":17384.724,"end":17401.186,"text":"好 習委員好 部長午安首先要先謝謝部長我記得這個上個會期我有特別拜託部長針對我們小琉球跟恆春半島醫療的問題那我想部長也真的用行動力展現所以我們今年"},{"start":17403.068,"end":17424.521,"text":"前一兩個月我們跟屏東縣長我們鄒村民縣長跟我們相關的團隊我們到小琉球衛生所那我們也很感謝就是我們也號召了我們小琉球的做醫生的主席能夠返鄉去服務那當然也謝謝部長的媒合我們高屏地區有幾家醫院共同來支援我們小琉球的醫療的問題"},{"start":17425.962,"end":17437.278,"text":"那但是這個是一個開頭因為這個小琉球的醫療的問題因為不是只有島上一萬多個居民每一年有超過120萬的遊客所以觀光醫療的問題我們責無旁貸所以有幾個問題還是要請部長來幫忙部長"},{"start":17442.685,"end":17470.705,"text":"我想這個目前小琉球衛生所的這個科別也好或是醫師人力確實是比過去充足但是他們現在面臨的問題就是我們現在衛生所的建物輸入已經超過五十年不但是這個結構老舊空間狹小而且還有滲水漏水的問題我想這個對一個整個醫療的環境非常非常的不理想而且我覺得對於這個醫護人員也好跟鄉親的這個安全也造成一個疑慮部長"},{"start":17472.126,"end":17482.372,"text":"屏東縣政府最近會提出一個整建改建的一個計畫部長願不願意來支持這樣的一個計畫我們一起來支持他對 柏廷你不要大用那麼快的你知不知道你還要下很多錢"},{"start":17485.16,"end":17503.398,"text":"這不是問題啦這個現在其實重要的是因為他有這個地理限制嘛那是一個離島啦所以這不是什麼問題我們都已經承諾也在這個蘭嶼也要蓋醫院啦好所以我想因為現在他不是只有如果是老舊啊這個衛生所的條件"},{"start":17505.099,"end":17520.209,"text":"確實已經超過50年應該要翻新或者是重建的話我們來仔細的評估之後全力支持因為現在琉球衛生所不是只有一個衛生所的規模他目前的這個醫療的量能應該具備一個小型醫院的一個功能"},{"start":17520.809,"end":17547.134,"text":"所以我們應該是要把它當作一個醫院的規模來看待因為過去如果發生一些集中症或是不能處理的 還要坐救護船去到東港去到屏東我想我們如果可以就近那邊把這個醫療量能充足的話我想應該是大幅這個可以拯救我們相信的生命的安全你應該支持這個看法所以這個部分我想我們還是會趕快請縣政府把案子提出來之後請部長來支持"},{"start":17548.234,"end":17562.23,"text":"好第二個這個針對恆春半輛的部分那當然我前陣子也跟我們周縣長去參加了橫旅的一個針對新島館也好跟尼亞科的一個成果的一個說明那這邊也特別謝謝部長那目前"},{"start":17563.471,"end":17580.185,"text":"衛福部我們透過醫學中心支援的部分有核定了14個醫師的名額衡旅4位 衡基5位還有南門5位那其中還有增加一個最重要那個麻醉科醫師這個部分但是因為目前衡旅有新導管有高壓氧"},{"start":17580.845,"end":17601.075,"text":"不然這不可以做一半而已,我想我們最近要導入一個叫做重症低溫的一個照護設備所以我們必須要有這樣的一個急重症的照護體系目前還欠什麼?心臟內科、胸腔科,還有這個急重症病房部長,這也是要你支持的好,支持好齁,這都有用,你要講大聲一點"},{"start":17603.288,"end":17626.791,"text":"不然我想這個我們也會請亨利趕快加快來提案我想這個國境之南的醫療就如同委員講的不是只有在地還有每年的 超過四五百萬人對 那個觀光的量能很大那所以我們極力的在提升這三家醫院的醫療量能就像委員講我們過去有兩波兩的三個到現在五個 一間便宜"},{"start":17627.694,"end":17643.601,"text":"然後大家互相分工 現在也組成了一個區域聯防區域聯防三間各自有分工我覺得這個是比過去進步很多了但是畢竟橫履是領頭羊的角色因為橫履是我們自己的名義 所以我們責務龐大所以發展的這一些需要"},{"start":17652.665,"end":17676.884,"text":"那最後我還是要幫我們這個第一線的醫護人員來請命啦齁當然因為我們過去的這個醫療的部分醫院負責這個專科跟集中症那衛生所第一線應該是我們鄉親齁炮弄企業基層醫療跟日間照護的一個很重要的一個場域但是齁博士你覺得怎麼樣目前衛生所我們的醫師的志願費用每一個整市多少錢三千四百三十五塊"},{"start":17678.325,"end":17704.813,"text":"比起一般的市場行情那個盧偉遠也是醫生一般行情應該是五千到六千這有相當大的落差耶不然你們從一百零六年到現在十年沒有調整過這對這個醫生情何以堪這不可以調整嗎這個是不是IDS的費用應該是IDS但是那個不夠啊盧偉遠是不是這是IDS的這是資源費用IDS是五千塊那資源費用這個就是公共機關訂的那個啦"},{"start":17708.854,"end":17729.373,"text":"那是公務機關這也太少了太少啦因為如果是要去小琉球要坐船要住宿去恆春寺也要開車靠靠的農作業因為我們一直在檢討那個IDS的費用會給他今年我們有空間在健保的IDS的話支援的那個服務費用會給他提高啦"},{"start":17729.713,"end":17747.998,"text":"那我來瞭解一下這個是什麼費用有的是地方核定的就是那個醫師的資源費用那個核定的我來瞭解一下就應該要提升我們要拜託偏鄉離島你收不收一個合理的報酬這對人家也很不公平費用太低了"},{"start":17750.018,"end":17776.824,"text":"交洗人家的熱情這樣也不好啦最後我還是要提醒一個事情我知道你很認真你很用心我們跟你說的事情你都給我應好但是我更快樂因為你從衛生署到衛福部你歷練了很多重要的主管職務所以整個醫療體系你都更清楚我是快樂說你答應的事情到你下課的時候都不是打折就是跳票啦"},{"start":17778.105,"end":17779.775,"text":"這一點我想要注意一下我們會來追蹤"},{"start":17782.13,"end":17802.159,"text":"我跟你談完之後,走你們下面的人,你們下面的人都沒有要引渡啦這點我是真的覺得很生氣啊我相信,我認為,我們是雖然是這麼好的一個感情齁但是我想公事歸公事,你要拿出你做部長的power你既然答應了事情,既然要照顧我們的鄉親,就要照顧到,這樣好不好?好,我來了解好,謝謝,謝謝徐副委員接下來請劉建國委員發言"},{"start":17819.735,"end":17838.529,"text":"來 謝謝主席有請這個破例始祖全都不是問題全力支持的史部長柏定你好這 做民意代表同樣聽到行政官員 應濟顧問 錢不是問題專烈支持我這幾位差不多要賺兩百三十幾億這要麻煩柏定什麼意思"},{"start":17844.414,"end":17846.799,"text":"希望補充給我回答一下,質疑不是問題,專業支持"},{"start":17852.83,"end":17866.663,"text":"被申訴我知道行情,但是委員沒說我不知道這是什麼意思以前是衛生署,現在是衛生福利部,那幾屆關頭都說不公平了尤其你是對衛生署的利益,就是這樣,不簡單,比較補充所以你的意念,跟你的經驗,跟這幾年多餘,要怎麼支持,要怎麼協同,應該都是大家可以信賴的"},{"start":17877.185,"end":17891.456,"text":"所以不一定算運氣你給感情高 給我感情豐厚這點我給你記起來錄影把它加起來對照那個剛才徐副國跟他的對話好啦 我先感謝我們朝夕今天安排這個專案報告我們要整整這個平衡醫療跟當教的阻礙落差嘛我想我們在這裡 因為我可能有很多"},{"start":17905.934,"end":17922.134,"text":"這個長者比賴這麼高還有一點 其實真的是在衛生署的時代那時候是楊志良署長然後蕭美齡副署長我曾經還把蕭美齡副署長邀集到台中去去看這個在宅醫療當時是針對牙醫的部分"},{"start":17923.015,"end":17943.941,"text":"然後在林前部長林卓人部長的時候是在2016我要特別召集到這一個樂事醫院去召開我們改善雲林的可靜性的這樣的一個醫療的可靜性我們也要感謝委會部這幾天的努力所以補充化學對照病我們這幾天居家醫療的經費跟使用人數人數都足以在增加"},{"start":17944.502,"end":17951.406,"text":"如果從居家醫療及照護的經費109436.54億那每年出院增加一直到11343.09億然後這個輔助人次居家醫療181109然後到113423萬多重度居家醫療29萬多一直到113437萬8左右"},{"start":17968.254,"end":17981.919,"text":"居家中醫這個成長速度更快2523一直到1134一萬五千多但是不能再看最後一個居家藥師照護一百多年四十三一百十年"},{"start":17985.154,"end":18009.636,"text":"一百四十一百十一年一百七十四一百十二年到三百二十六一百十三八十七部長也注意到了啦部長也有特別去在週六好像週六的時候有受訪嘛就跟你說未來在長沙3.0在宅醫療及急性後期照護等政策中中醫都將有更要的參與的角色"},{"start":18012.456,"end":18037.979,"text":"這個我們當然全力支持也對關西省過去一直希望中醫可以再跟長照連結更加的內取2019年的時候6月健保署公告居家醫療整個計畫將藥師納入居家醫療的一份子針對末期病人的管制藥品以及特殊劑型的用藥指導來提供服務"},{"start":18038.96,"end":18046.547,"text":"但是我們我們看到現在這樣的一個數據不曉得有掌握嗎為什麼在居家要事的招呼是"},{"start":18047.975,"end":18075.186,"text":"是這麼低的人次在使用原因出在什麼地方謝謝委員提醒這些健保的服務數據我真的是忽略掉那個藥事服務我沒注意到謝謝你給我提醒我還要了解為什麼會掉下來因為健警的穩定在成長每一項的服務居家整合的每一項服務其實都是穩定在成長怎麼會藥事服務突然間掉下來我會來了解一下副署長也在這裡"},{"start":18077.367,"end":18083.632,"text":"我們再分析一下這樣分析一下好嗎?這應該是經紀人嘛,一個禮拜應該怎麼做一些應變跟調整也好,好謝謝因為我們對日本的長照,居家的醫療的服務,日本的藥師能夠執行的服務像這麼多"},{"start":18095.578,"end":18109.576,"text":"對不對 送藥到宅 緊急送藥到宅產藥計算 藥力管理用藥的整合評估 用藥諮詢指導分裝 特殊製劑調製與管理大大大一堆啦那事實上如果你根據食藥署在"},{"start":18111.533,"end":18132.92,"text":"113年度的國內上市後藥品的不良的反應通報案例的分析全國藥物不良反應通報中心共接獲到一萬三千多件然後集中在40到79歲的壯年及老年的病患共佔整體通報案件的54%也就是說長者同時在使用過五種藥物我們媽媽就要照過五款藥物"},{"start":18137.698,"end":18151.577,"text":"有一些狀況會發生他也就會忽略這個國際上對多重用藥的定義醫師藥師就會去提醒用藥不了環境可能就因為這個多重用藥還是藥物的交互作用"},{"start":18152.919,"end":18175.698,"text":"而發生或是假種所以這其實有數我覺得是而且還有針對長者如果是家長記憶的衰退失智、獨居、難老照顧等等除了多重用藥也容易出現吃錯藥的這些狀況重重用藥的狀況還是服務劑量錯誤等等"},{"start":18176.98,"end":18200.852,"text":"所以藥師在這個居家醫療照護他扮演的角色絕對是用藥的一個守門人所以特別拜託部長來重視這件事情因為部長有特別提到我去看這個居家醫療照護其實藥師扮演的角色很好他會幫那個病人整理藥還會幫他分隔分天分類"},{"start":18202.133,"end":18230.473,"text":"我覺得這個藥師服務是在社區藥局可以扮演很重的角色我會來瞭解為什麼這個服務量會下降好 就一個禮拜嘛我們也可以就是說參照日本的一些藥師的功能的提升加強他的一些資物讓這個藥師可以扮演的更在3.0裡面可以協助病人提高他的自我照顧能力對 好然後這個跟健保署有關還是請教部長"},{"start":18232.134,"end":18252.93,"text":"除了居家的藥事照顧之外在者醫療還有很多問題健康署宣稱目前有數千家院所參與居家醫療整合計畫那過去一年這個出診次數為零或僅出診個位數的診所比例有多少能說明嗎出診"},{"start":18254.311,"end":18280.808,"text":"為零因為我們這個這個它是有這個叫做合作關係合作關係的意思是說它有的是診所跟居戶所去合作提供居家醫療啦然後我們那個那個這個居戶所去提供照顧那醫師有的時候是靠遠距那個居家住院嘛那個在宅住院那個街尾是遠距但是至少他要去看一次啦"},{"start":18281.789,"end":18289.665,"text":"所以不應該有出證為零的這應該是不可能才對這應該是嘛所以你又說應該就代表不可能喔"},{"start":18292.943,"end":18317.159,"text":"所以是不是要把這個治療我們再整理一下然後第二個是這個另外使用居家醫療的民眾最終還是在醫院死亡的狀況這是不是跟我們叫做醫療不需要離開所居的社區對我們居家醫療有另一個目標就希望他能夠在家往生能夠在居家我們現在還是將近差不多"},{"start":18318.44,"end":18347.319,"text":"8成的會在醫院不過如果是進入安寧的計畫的就比較多進入安寧的就會比較多在居家安寧計畫的就會比較多在載往生這個還有一個數據因為時間關係請部長看第三點因為印尼週日對外的一個收網裡面長照三點來我們就是要做各方面的一個強化但是你看到居家"},{"start":18348.602,"end":18353.136,"text":"醫療的醫師常在反應不知道病人的腸道需求腸道端也不知道這個居家醫療醫師的意囑"},{"start":18355.204,"end":18379.138,"text":"所以這兩者應該是相互相整啊怎麼會變成兩邊各做各的對對對 這個委員點出我們之前的問題就是那個兩個資料沒有互接啦所以我們現在正在做資料的互接已經在進行中了嘛 就是健保的資料先整合然後長照也有一個長照系統那現在長照跟健保兩邊的資料在就對接了"},{"start":18380.038,"end":18391.462,"text":"不然你回想一下,這其實喔,離奇點公開是要實施其實我們也去參訪日本很多案,很多他們這個對折要經營,我們有理由讓我們看但是我們到現在,2.0變3.0了,還有這種問題就是不應該發生的啦阿現在這個3.0的重點就是要讓它這邊兩邊可以對接應該已經在進行嘗試了嘛,已經在嘗試了好一定要試辦啦,不用對接你要試辦多久?"},{"start":18409.661,"end":18430.208,"text":"已經跟差不多現在開始我們看今年可以開始今年內就開始今年內對不起今年還有8個多月應該上半年就可以了吧上半年準備要差不多啦OK啦好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝委員謝謝中國委員"},{"start":18438.03,"end":18461.529,"text":"接下來請高津樹梅委員高津樹梅委員高津樹梅委員不在 接著請蔡奕宇委員蔡奕宇委員蔡奕宇委員不在 接著請林德福委員林德福委員林德福委員不在 接著請鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員不在 接著請楊耀遠發言"},{"start":18473.732,"end":18501.028,"text":"謝謝主席 主席請一下施部長好 邀請施部長恭送劉建國委員邀委員好部長好 部長我們先來討論一下第三期公費醫生養成計畫的相關問題我想請問一下你們這一次就是有分成兩大類別對"},{"start":18504.264,"end":18518.973,"text":"政策任務科別跟人才羅製困難科別我問一下人才羅製困難科別大概是不是最主要是以後要在離島偏鄉做服務"},{"start":18521.514,"end":18545.949,"text":"對就是在偏鄉比較難羅釋的那我在這邊提醒一下部長就是這個每一年科別會怎麼分配名額可能要我們會去預估各地報出來的需求就是會先前置作業先去調查那個每個縣市他認為這個地方他的科別需求是什麼然後我們才會開出那個科別"},{"start":18547.421,"end":18571.264,"text":"那先做調查可是我看資料是政策任務科別的次專科是你們是指定這個是兩類可是人才羅志困難科別是沒有對對對對對那沒有的話就是簡單講就是人才羅志困難科別就是一般講的五大科啦兒科啦內科啦婦產科啦老外科大概就是這些基本科啦"},{"start":18571.644,"end":18599.292,"text":"那政策科別就是說我們有一些因為量的關係不多所以我們必須要集中有這樣的人才可是呢這個可能大家比較不想走的像比如說小兒神經科這個很少服務量很少市場很小但是確實需要有這樣的人才那我們如果沒有辦法我們就是用公費來培養這個是叫做政策比如說有一些是屬於特殊的這個精神科的刺莊科"},{"start":18600.432,"end":18624.125,"text":"那些類似的我們會這樣請教一下部長就是說因為政策任務的次專科是由部裡面這邊來試實際情況那學生入學的時候就決定還是什麼時候決定要畢業的時候選科的時候決定那萬一我說萬一萬一沒有人走對"},{"start":18626.932,"end":18647.333,"text":"這個我今天都只提問題啦你們有沒有可能就是說這些學生他就志向不在這裡也可能他專長興趣不在這裡這個你們要趕快去想說怎麼處理我今天最主要是要講人才羅志困難課別的問題就這幾年啊"},{"start":18649.248,"end":18672.746,"text":"因為離島的在地養成公費醫生其實不少在我立委任期內澎湖大概就培養了一百個我現在都擔心以後醫生的人數太多得不到應有的待遇所以這是一個很大的問題我相信"},{"start":18674.177,"end":18702.755,"text":"原住民地區也會有這個問題因為義大設了一個專收原住民的醫學系這幾年他們那裡培育多少我不知道金門跟澎湖其實現在就是澎湖現在還沒有這個問題金門可能已經有這個問題了那在地養成的醫生其實我坦白講我的在地觀察培養出來的醫生都非常優秀"},{"start":18703.905,"end":18729.775,"text":"可是我們要怎麼去管制這個量你知道在我的任內曾經我自己要求造物師把每年九個變成每年六個理論上是應該要再逐步減下來那現在在地養成已經這麼多了你們又用了這個科別以後會不會"},{"start":18731.349,"end":18739.536,"text":"會不會離島偏鄉反而醫生的量太多我現在先不討論科別的失衡的問題我只講總量有沒有可能會發生"},{"start":18749.484,"end":18774.464,"text":"跟委員說明就是說您的觀點很好一個是總量一個是系的分科分部這是兩個不同的問題以量來講目前是還好因為我們除了離島本身之外我們還有一些衛生所這個原鄉地區還有一些偏遠地區的我們的公立醫院也缺人所以目前來講量的部分是不會過剩"},{"start":18775.809,"end":18801.332,"text":"但是科別就是要很小心因為我們並沒有強制他要選什麼科的機制因為每個人的興趣不同所以科別上怎麼樣拿捏好他的科我們再來這個非常困難因為有一些科是我們要特殊譬如說現在偏鄉地區因為我們人口下降出生率下降"},{"start":18802.533,"end":18829.723,"text":"產科會缺啦因為沒有市場嘛產科會缺所以我們就要供費深去但是呢會不會這一屆雖然有50個但是沒有人願意走沒有人要選副產科所以這個就是在第三期上路的同時你們有一些獎勵機制就要同時出來那我也在提醒部長就是說現在"},{"start":18830.603,"end":18838.925,"text":"看起來離島偏鄉的醫生量能沒有過剩的問題可是等到第三期公費生"},{"start":18840.841,"end":18863.953,"text":"投入醫療行業的時候我們現在看的是已經看到10年以後的問題了就是說10年以後會不會真的離島離島跟偏鄉其實已經不缺醫生了所以我的建議是這樣子就是說你們要不要不要把第三期公費生弄得那麼複雜"},{"start":18866.541,"end":18884.607,"text":"因為你現在分兩個類別其實我是覺得反而會造成比較大的問題就是直接用單一類別然後罰則什麼也都一致"},{"start":18887.032,"end":18903.79,"text":"這樣服務連線也都一致這樣子可能會比較簡單一點也比較不會造成像我剛剛講的你這個科別就是專門訪理療偏鄉的可是到那個時候他的醫師量能已經足夠了"},{"start":18906.84,"end":18916.666,"text":"反而會造成很大的問題當然這個問題已經不需要我們解決了只是說我們現在在這個位置我們先拿出來探討因為我們本來的設計上就是有一些"},{"start":18922.949,"end":18950.628,"text":"這個政策科別的他可能在醫院服務了所以他的時間會長一點我就說政策科別的是很好因為既然五大科特別有一些次專科沒有人走我們盡量鼓勵甚至像我剛才講的我們在推動的過程就把獎勵機制推出來這個當然是有需要我現在講的是說你們假如說萬一又特別開了一個"},{"start":18952.182,"end":18977.657,"text":"沒關係 保證你先喝水假如說我們萬一又多開了一個一個離島偏鄉我是就我在我來自離島的委員我的觀點我的觀察做這樣子的建議我覺得你們再討論看看"},{"start":18981.557,"end":18990.387,"text":"我最後還是要問一個彭茹早聊的問題就是我曾經講過就是彭茹的聯評時間太短沒有關係因為時間的關係我就把問題點出來讓你們回去"},{"start":19002.691,"end":19010.43,"text":"聯合門診評估的量能太低所以有的時候要等很久那國健署"},{"start":19012.321,"end":19035.168,"text":"基本補助是一百萬那離島的縣市只多五萬對於離島醫事人員招募本來就不易是不是可以請國建署我也替曹偉講一下就是離島跟偏鄉的部分你們研議一下把"},{"start":19036.96,"end":19053.885,"text":"把補助金額再提高因為沒有啦 多錢啦沒有啦 多錢啦 好不好這個跟委員報告澎湖的部分我們今年第四季會成立第二個聯平中心對 我知道那第二個我也請你們競速成立"},{"start":19055.505,"end":19077.612,"text":"再研議看看有沒有那個遠距的協助遠距的評估協助這個也是一個那另外那個費用的部分考慮到離島跟偏鄉的加成給付這個我們目前是已經有提高但是我們再瞭解一下是不是這樣的額度適當補充你這樣不容易 你連我都要問遠距你就直接說出來"},{"start":19081.873,"end":19107.075,"text":"我知道你關心嘛就是我們進口因為早療早療早療是及早發現及早治療嘛那假如說是因為因為我們的各項人力設備不足造成治療的推遲就變成我們的責任好不好我們來研究一下試辦看看好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":19107.796,"end":19135.967,"text":"好謝謝楊耀委員接下來請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英不在接著請陳培宇委員陳培宇委員陳培宇不在接著請林倩琦委員林倩琦委員林倩琦委員不在接著請武力華委員發言謝謝主席有請施部長有請施部長"},{"start":19140.186,"end":19166.02,"text":"吳委員好部長好賴總統上任之後有在總統府成立一個健康台灣推動委員會目前我們看到也開過7次的會議那我知道在當中健康台灣有一個目標就是8年內要提升國人的平均餘命到82歲所以如果我們看一下最新的資料"},{"start":19167.961,"end":19183.757,"text":"113年呢全體國民的平均壽命是80.77歲那也就是說如果要再增加1.23就可以達標那再細看平均每一年希望可以達到0.15歲的增長可是"},{"start":19187.701,"end":19207.407,"text":"當我們再去細看原住民族群這一塊那目前我們在113年的原住民平均的餘命是73.23但是數學我們當然沒有辦法這樣看我只是想表達原住民的人口是2.5%"},{"start":19209.167,"end":19224.442,"text":"所以呢當用這個大水池去算的時候其實原住民這一塊可能是被淹沒的因為他的人口非常的少所以很容易被忽略那我要談的是如果我們要達成這個目標也許不難"},{"start":19227.245,"end":19245.339,"text":"因為其他的非原住民人口佔了絕大多數然後他們的醫療可及性可能在醫療的作為之上呢能夠有顯著的一個成效可是原住民就會被忽略了那我不曉得這個部分部長您覺得"},{"start":19247.5,"end":19272.973,"text":"會怎麼樣去看待這個問題我們對這個原住民族健康也有一個中長城計畫現在也在做review當中了那也會搭配整個健康台灣的施政目標去擬定那未來在這個除了我們是全民的餘命希望延長之外我們另外一個也希望去縮短原住民跟我們國人的餘命的這個落差"},{"start":19273.473,"end":19289.815,"text":"所以如果這個落差能夠縮短那等於是我們原住民同胞的這個餘命也在延長謝謝那我請教一下部長假設說大水池那一塊我們花一塊錢就可以看到成效那按這個比例來講原住民應該要花多少錢"},{"start":19292.573,"end":19306.542,"text":"這個錢真的是很難估啦因為這個是但至少應該是很多倍對不對因為我們原民您也知道有一些是已經是在都會區的那有一些是在原鄉的那都會區的話就會在整個大系統裡頭"},{"start":19307.583,"end":19330.884,"text":"那原鄉當然我們有特別的這個政策的介入那部長請教一下像我們在那個花蓮的秀林鄉就做那個全能照護那個效果很好他的那個餘命會延長而且更健康了所以我們把這個模式擴大所以擴大到在這個花蓮的話就有八個鄉鎮就是八個鄉要做這件事情"},{"start":19331.164,"end":19356.585,"text":"不講因為說一句實在話蔡英文上任之後我們推動文化健康戰大家都很有感也許不知道是因為執政的關係但是我要提的是說我們也常常會去告訴人家自從推了文化健康戰之後我們的平均餘命好像跟全體國人有在縮短而且速度非常快"},{"start":19357.611,"end":19374.171,"text":"可是没有科学的根据这个只是我们这样子讲而已所以呢这个有一个专门在做这样的一个研究也是我们原建法通过之后我们很期待有的那我先请教一下健康台湾推动委员会有没有原住民"},{"start":19375.092,"end":19380.697,"text":"有哪一位 林醫師 溫德那我希望這一些我們剛剛講的我希望你們請林醫師一定要好好的擬出對策我也希望你們能夠尊重他的看法可以嗎那我再請教一下因為台灣的四級醫療分級我都覺得都很好可是現實在原鄉"},{"start":19396.852,"end":19422.184,"text":"他就是只有衛生所或者是基層的醫療診所所以我們一直在談遠距醫療 遠距醫療疫情期間有我們看到衛福部在很多地方有在推動可是疫情過後我們發現又縮減了所以我想問一下部長什麼時候能夠全面的開放偏鄉的遠距醫療的科別跟他合作醫院的限制跟我們報我們去年8月鬆綁了"},{"start":19423.064,"end":19434.647,"text":"已經鬆綁了對對對我們那個所有科別不限了只要當地的這個科的專科醫師少名三名以下的就可以用就可以用遠距然後他的那個區域我們過去只限定在那個離島跟這個園鄉現在我們連那個"},{"start":19442.449,"end":19464.995,"text":"都市邊緣的就是資源比較不夠的也開放了所以是有135個鄉鎮可以適用唐蓋的那個人口服務人口是180萬人我們逐步再增加我希望知道目前參與的情形也希望給我一份書面資料那我請教一下因為談到這個還有一個部分我們要注意很多偏鄉不是只有蘭嶼"},{"start":19466.235,"end":19487.749,"text":"因為他就是只能面對衛生所他只要有重病他就必須要去醫院可是因為距離的關係很多人不去看病因為他要負擔很大的交通費那我不太曉得說現在有沒有去看重這個問題有沒有列入政策就是那個交通費的補助嘛我們有這個費用"},{"start":19491.567,"end":19505.05,"text":"就是所有的偏鄉 所有的原鄉然後不限距離他只要出去一次就兩千塊嗎有 有一點限制啦 有啦"},{"start":19505.967,"end":19525.72,"text":"好那我再請教一下所以我們部落裡面的這個長照也是很重要的一個地方那我是希望說其實文化健康站就是一個希望他能夠長照跟心理支持的一個核心啦但是我知道大家都會提到"},{"start":19526.812,"end":19552.141,"text":"日照中心會提到加拖站但是我要讓部長知道我也接到好多的陳情日照中心的負責人其實他們也很多的苦衷因為他們說即便如此他們經常都收不到自付額就是很勉強的經營維持下去他們也跟我們陳情說這個部分政府能不能幫忙"},{"start":19555.856,"end":19581.103,"text":"委員講的是文建站還是日照中心我們了解一下說不到那部長我只是要表達其實現在有很多的長照機構大家說空床率很高也不需要再給原住民另外蓋但是我就是要讓部長知道你看我們很多人其實是因為他負擔不起"},{"start":19582.339,"end":19610.891,"text":"才會有所謂的空床率很高那另外一個部分他即便到現在鄉裡面的日照中心他也負擔不起那樣的費用所以這個事實是存在的所以我們很希望說不論是在我們健康台灣裡面我知道有委員提到要催生原住民醫院那衣服會呢好像也有在規劃但是我不知道進度那現在都會區的原住民長照大樓也在興建"},{"start":19611.451,"end":19640.345,"text":"那因為時間的關係是不是簡單回答跟委員說明為了導入這個文化安全其實那個我們醫院能夠有友善的這個服務我們找了三家醫院在試辦一個是那個就是您提的這個樂生醫院那另外屏東醫院還有一個花蓮醫院這三家醫院在試辦這個把這個文化安全的概念把它導進去那會不會又有"},{"start":19640.925,"end":19669.731,"text":"回來的聲音讓你們覺得說哎呀空床率很高他應該是指整個那個環境的營造跟服務上的友善我只是要凸顯的就是其實這不是空床率的問題而是負擔不起的問題所以我覺得原住民這個部分就是長照的部分照顧的部分這個其實我們還是希望衛福部能夠去多多的討論看看要怎麼去改善"},{"start":19670.671,"end":19689.977,"text":"那最後我總而言之要講的是說我們一直期待原住民族健康法他能夠有所謂的一個專責機構那我也知道目前所謂的專責單位叫做原住民族及離島健康科那我也不知道這樣算不算是一個專責的單位或專責的機關啦但是我們"},{"start":19693.779,"end":19706.289,"text":"當時要立法又說礙於財政紀律法也不能夠去匡列經費但是我們看一下當時雖然說會給很多經費可是我們看了一下公務預算113到115公務預算"},{"start":19708.971,"end":19732.205,"text":"其實是沒有顯著的提高然後又去看特別預算115年也沒有特別前瞻特別預算然後去看基金各類基金原建法上路已經三年好像各類的基金也沒有提出相關的新興計畫所以這個部分我們不太曉得說在原住民族的健康照護這一塊到底該怎麼做所以我們覺得"},{"start":19733.206,"end":19755.905,"text":"最好的解方那就是透過組織法的修正來擴充相關的專責預算跟人力我們是覺得說這才是最好的解方所以我相信很多的委員都有提出衛福部組織法的一個版本那我個人也有就是希望能夠增加援助民族健康照顧署我不曉得部長的意見如何"},{"start":19756.825,"end":19773.913,"text":"跟委員說明就是說我們現在的這個關於這個原住民健康的事務的推動其實他是要跨單位大家都要做的不會只有一個即使是一個師一個署都不足以承擔所以他應該是有一個專責的政策規劃"},{"start":19775.514,"end":19793.845,"text":"但是要推動的時候還是要回到各業務執掌單位去推動有的是健保的有的是長照的有的是國健署的預防保健這個還是要回到各個單位去推動才不會脫節只有單靠一個師也好一個署也好來推動是不夠的"},{"start":19795.406,"end":19822.663,"text":"預算也是一樣它是分散在各個單位的我們理解但是我們只看最後的效果有沒有顯著那顯然從各個方面來看其實還是有一大段的落差那我們真的是期待說給我們一個專門的機關署司都可以那我們希望原住民族的健康能夠由他們來跟各個單位各個部會"},{"start":19825.344,"end":19831.168,"text":"來去做一個最重要的那更重要的是裡面的人就像剛才聽到的推動委員會有一位林醫師我們希望有這樣的人讓大家聽見原住民的想法去做原住民專屬的規劃才能夠真正的去解決根本的問題這是我們的期待啦所以我們還是希望我們部長這邊能夠繼續的來做這方面的溝通可以嗎"},{"start":19850.759,"end":19871.947,"text":"好 我繼續努力其實在我們那個原住民族健康政策會裡面的每一組其實都有我們的原住民的代表在也好幾位醫師在裡面好 謝謝部長好 謝謝主席謝謝吳立華委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在 接著請陳雲委員"},{"start":19884.66,"end":19887.662,"text":"麻煩請衛福部長請石部長張委員好部長好我想在這邊我們也是先謝謝昭緯他這次特別安排這次的專案報告那當然就是說特別援建法的部分是本席在擔任昭緯的時候112年"},{"start":19908.917,"end":19927.996,"text":"那個時候我們一起大家一起努力通過的那當然那個時候我也還要再特別謝謝我們當時的次長石次長那時候在沒有行政院版本推出的時候共同和本席一起密謀沒有密謀我們是協助委員"},{"start":19932.381,"end":19944.893,"text":"那就是也非常站在我們原住民這邊就是一起幫忙把這個法案通過那當然就是說我們都很關心現在落實的狀況那當然"},{"start":19948.777,"end":19963.47,"text":"就是前面在你們的這個報告裡面有提到落實了哪些但是我想很多委員特別是招委特別他要爭取擔任招委應該很重要的一個目的也還是回到這個專責單位這個問題"},{"start":19965.792,"end":19984.337,"text":"那我想其實不管他的專責單位是設定成什麼那最重要還是事在人為就是重要那個人到底有沒有去執行有沒有落實才是最重要的那當然我這樣講也不是要讓你們打折扣啦因為我就想說來先了解一下"},{"start":19985.097,"end":20008.962,"text":"在你們這個原件法通過之後你們特別指定了這個照護司來作為這個專責單位那我想請教在你們指定他們成為專責單位之後呢在業務上的執行上還有你們的人力運用上跟就是過去跟現在有什麼差別"},{"start":20010.332,"end":20037.43,"text":"我跟委員報告當然在人力上並沒有擴編但是未來我們現在進行主改未來我也討論到原本在這個護理及健康照護師裡面的有一些業務他會整併到這個未來的那個長照署去但是我們的人力會把它維持住來多增加一些人來協助做援助民主健康的政策的規劃擬定跟推動"},{"start":20038.27,"end":20053.863,"text":"所以這個我們會去放大它的份量因為在這個法通過至今已經將近三年在過去這個兩三年的當中其實也做了不少的事情包含我們的研究中心那個開始建的資料庫研究計畫的推動"},{"start":20056.746,"end":20077.028,"text":"這個委員會政策會的成立四個小組的運作那我看也有不少的產出跟建議讓我們在政策上落實然後現在也在擬定這個中長城計畫當中就原住民族健康的中長城計畫我想主要我想在這個過程我大概還原一些事情"},{"start":20078.149,"end":20093.184,"text":"那因為畢竟就是說在原先最早期叫做山地離島科那現在叫第三科嘛那當然我們就是說在協商的過程大家想先求有再求好那大家各退一步"},{"start":20093.684,"end":20118.943,"text":"所以在這個專責單位的部分其實我們也我自己本身當然就是要用成立這個署那但是我想協商過程當中我們也同意說那是不是在這個我們在這個私之下還有這麼還有一個名額那是不是還可以成立第四科那但是也後來也沒有但"},{"start":20119.883,"end":20147.04,"text":"這將近三年的時間因為我在看第三科的這個預算跟人力甚至預算也還是有流用的狀況所以這個人力也沒有增加那剛剛部長也特別提了所以當然你也講到說未來但我不知道這個未來還需要多久的時間我們就很怕這個時光匆匆就這樣虛晃過去所以今天也特別再提一下就是說"},{"start":20149.041,"end":20174.05,"text":"也特別要求就是在人力跟經費上的這個投入我們都一定要把它當作一回事很重要的事情來推動不然我們通過這個法就沒有用了跟委員說明就剛我特別提到現在正在擬定這個原住民族健康的中長城計畫在那個計畫裡面我們會來爭取更多的預算投入在原住民族健康的促進跟改善這樣"},{"start":20175.03,"end":20195.051,"text":"那在另外我想很多委員都關心這個原住民族跟全國人口的平均餘命差距的問題那從你們的這個健康紀刊有登載就是從2017年的差距8.17歲那已經改善到2021年的6.94歲而且本席還有發現不論是哪"},{"start":20197.773,"end":20217.781,"text":"哪一個人口族群本來平均餘命都是逐年增加的但是全國人口的平均餘命竟然在2021年的時候還比2020年還低少了0.46年而且原住民的差距的部分還繼續在成長增加了0.26年"},{"start":20219.682,"end":20241.54,"text":"那本席的猜測可能是當時有受到這個COVID-19的影響所以全國人口平均餘命說才減少當然也有可能在短時間內他可能或許還會再變動目前原住民跟這個全國平均餘命全國人民的這個平均餘命差距是多少7.5 7.54"},{"start":20245.123,"end":20270.702,"text":"那剛才的資料顯示因為原住民族在這個嚴重傳染流行嚴重傳染病流行有沒有因為健康不平等受到影響那成為一個我們大家都很關心一個很重要的一個課題那甚至在未來呢可以成為這個檢定你們對於這個法案執行的這個成效目標"},{"start":20272.343,"end":20295.919,"text":"是一個成效的指標那部長是否同意這樣子的可能性其實您提我也回想到其實在COVID當中我們也很擔心這個城鄉落差偏遠地區的健康不平等的問題所以那時候委員還特別提醒還有那個快篩啊還有一些那個藥物啊那些要對這個"},{"start":20298.24,"end":20314.557,"text":"原鄉地區啊那個時候你還特別提了好幾個地點給我那個確實不過現在看起來好像比那個全國的要好就是看起來原住民那邊的年齡是反而他是繼續再延長的"},{"start":20316.078,"end":20333.924,"text":"因為在這部法案通過的時候COVID-19疫情當然它是持續退散的那急性傳染病的防疫也當然涉及很多這個醫藥衛生的專業那地方主管機關的協調甚至跟這個原住民族文化特性有關的這些"},{"start":20335.164,"end":20350.523,"text":"也是提醒衛福部應該要重視原住民那所以在未來我們這個重大的這個傳染病或疾病的預防控制可以更嚴謹的態度去看待所以也希望部長可以教辦下去那"},{"start":20354.619,"end":20381.164,"text":"因為這部法案的立法精神是促進原住民族健康建構以原住民族為主體的健康政策改善原住民族健康不平等的情形所以本法的目的當然是這樣所以針對原住民的健康政策我們明定就是應該要尊重原住民族意願自主的發展所以在法案的重點"},{"start":20384.185,"end":20410.357,"text":"在於這個原住民族健康政策制定的品質跟落實的情形那目前你們有訂定相關的這個政策白皮書嗎就是你們的這個讓外界知道衛福部的理念跟方向之前是有一本專章啦就是在之前我們是在有一個健康白皮書裡面有一個原住民族專章啦"},{"start":20411.172,"end":20426.393,"text":"那現在我們要你的就是這個中長城計畫專門對這個原民健康所以這個也等同你們的政策白皮書應該也可以算你們大概什麼時候會完成"},{"start":20428.052,"end":20453.549,"text":"因為這個我們會希望在明年的預算裡面去編列所以現在正在撰寫這個中長城計劃爭取明年的預算當然是希望明年預算要省所以爭取到了我們才有辦法因為它就變成新興新興計劃對所以如果總預算再不省的話我們這些也就一樣又回來又害到我們原住民自己所以那個可能也拜託趙偉跟你們黨團講一下那"},{"start":20458.049,"end":20475.291,"text":"好像沒有反應 可以嗎 可以齁 好那個趙偉 新新計畫啦 趙偉很害羞嗎 好那沒關係 我們今天這個都有列入公報齁 所以我幫忙那個 剛剛趙偉您是點頭嗎"},{"start":20478.064,"end":20498.359,"text":"同意就跟黨團溝通一下免得我們接下來這個原住民的這個健康的這個原建法的這個政策白皮書中長城計畫會難產所以這個部分就拜託召委要多幫忙那我想我最後"},{"start":20499.48,"end":20520.704,"text":"提一下在這個我們政策實質內容上我們應該要從這個數據找目標然後從這個調查研究跟統計了解原住民的這個我們十大死因十大癌症死因跟其他影響健康的因素因為在過去呢我們都是跟全國性的統計資料都混在一起嘛那我們"},{"start":20521.204,"end":20544.739,"text":"只有占全國的2.5%的人口數所以你說這些數據原住民在裡面往往都被稀釋掉所以自然就沒有辦法從數據中被看見實質上的結果跟原因目前衛福部有沒有依照原住民族特殊的健康問題"},{"start":20546.8,"end":20560.412,"text":"這個生活型態環境生物因子還有醫療資源等面向定期的做調查跟研究那原住民的這個健康狀況跟健康需求就是說你們有沒有去建置原住民族的健康資料庫這個部分"},{"start":20561.898,"end":20588.307,"text":"跟委員報告這個資料庫的這個主辦單位那個國衛院的院長也在這裡他們很努力的去把這個不同的資料庫把它以這個原住民為中心把它整合在一起那就如同剛剛這個委員也特別提醒到的因為這個原住民的人口相對少所以在做分析的時候有時候會遇到一些難處譬如說以漁民來講他的變動就會比較大"},{"start":20590.848,"end":20619.307,"text":"所以我們才會抓以這個三年的這個移動平均來做這個統計所以類似像這樣它要做一點校正所以在資料收集之後在做細分類的時候細分析的時候有時候誘於這個人口數比較少那可能也會受到一些障礙所以才需要有一個專責專門來做這個研究的單位對 因為我們畢竟有一些不然混在大"},{"start":20620.007,"end":20641.641,"text":"大數據裡面就不容易凸顯出它的差異是因為在這個文化畢竟有這個特殊性所以我們希望可以就針對原住民族的部分把剛剛提的這些十大死因十大癌症死因的這些特別獨立出來再做研究這樣會比較清楚那在"},{"start":20642.982,"end":20667.283,"text":"就是法案14條因為也有講到這個中央主管機關應該針對這個原住民族的傳統醫療保健知識的研究推廣來促進原住民族的傳統醫療跟健康生活的發展那部長不知道部長要如何去推廣原住民族被證實有效的中草藥或食品你大概會 部長會用什麼樣的話術"},{"start":20670.304,"end":20674.486,"text":"因為這個要很小心不小心江署長可能會罰部長因為在推廣的過程難免都會因為這個會如實運用"},{"start":20688.291,"end":20703.356,"text":"期刊論文上已經被證實的這個有效資料所以會不會因為宣稱療效然後抵觸食品安全衛生然後被裁罰這個搞不好也是未來我們會面臨的問題這個其實我們那個原住民傳統醫療跟這個中醫藥有點像啦"},{"start":20708.338,"end":20737.309,"text":"因為它取材來自於自然界嘛不是這種這個合成或化學的成分藥那但是呢因為有這麼悠遊的悠長的歷史經過這麼多的人體經驗累積的但是跟我們現在西方醫學所講的這個實證依據的臨床效果確實這個中間是有認知上的落差啦"},{"start":20737.449,"end":20754.219,"text":"我們畢竟中藥其實裡面它是一個大數據的累積但是它未必每一項都有科學實證所以這兩項比較起來其實是非常不公平的所以我也特別指出這一點要有不同的思維供各位參考"},{"start":20755.9,"end":20783.152,"text":"還是在這裡特別感謝部長就是對於原建法的這個重視跟支持那所以我想我也要有所回饋那對於就是勞動部偷人偷你們衛福部的這個護理人員人力這件事情看起來好像部長到目前都還束手無策所以"},{"start":20784.588,"end":20812.009,"text":"部長一直笑 不知道是你有解決了嗎沒有 還沒解決好 那我想對 這是很嚴重的問題啦所以如果部長還沒辦法去協商解決我可能考慮在總諮詢的時候幫幫你們去跟請院長主持公道好看這個部分要怎麼調整因為畢竟這個關係到全體國人的這個健康需求"},{"start":20813.304,"end":20817.846,"text":"謝謝委員的指導所以OK啦好 謝謝好 那我們繼續努力好 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員發言"},{"start":20825.353,"end":20849.32,"text":"本日會議詢答全部結束委員高津素美 林倩琦委員 徐欣穎委員所提書面質詢六日記錄刊登公報現在做以下決定報告及詢答完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩周內以書面答覆委員另有要求期限者從其所定"},{"start":20850.16,"end":20855.688,"text":"本日会议到此结束现在休息明天上午九点继续开会"},{"start":20872.756,"end":20876.902,"text":"謝謝 從小在澳大利亞長大 很多經歷 從小在澳大利亞 從小在澳大利亞"}]}},{"id":"167674","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167674","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053586ce8dfb2e2b188f85a32efe0b6ef7a2d0c74f479c2f64a046f014c7ab0ab8e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱議瑩","委員發言時間":"09:21:25 - 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我請一下陳部長"},{"start":18.099,"end":40.406,"text":"部長好 部長剛剛聆聽了一下您的報告我想有一個最新的也不是最新 有一個時事您上禮拜剛從東京食品展回來我看到這次東京食品展其實台灣的櫃位還算是大我自己本身也去跑了一趟不過根據媒體的報導這次農業部帶的商家"},{"start":46.246,"end":66.407,"text":"剪到了11家對我們來講這應該是一個很大幅的減少那到底為什麼會剪到了只有11家那你們說是因為預算的關係我不是很清楚到底這個中間的關聯性是什麼第二個我想請部長您簡要的來報告一下東京食品展的成效"},{"start":68.253,"end":90.549,"text":"我想謝謝委員的關心其實東京食品展農業部就是結合了今年是11家那其實往年是大概12到15家左右那我們考量的就是其實我們農業部的一個主展場應該有效的結合地方政府因為地方政府大部分有15個縣市都有在那邊擺攤那我們希望說"},{"start":91.289,"end":113.264,"text":"未來就是一個入口就是農業部的一個展場他規劃了一個台灣的image在那邊希望能夠將人潮引到那個地方所以未來不會是農業部自己單獨帶了幾家廠商去而是跟所有的台灣管局做結合跟各縣市政府去做結合是這樣嗎對 這樣的話才會更有效率這是我想我們開始思維改變的一個重點"},{"start":114.105,"end":136.773,"text":"那第二個重點就是我們這次帶去的一個最主要我說的就是我們帶去的米香果香茶香跟魚香那米香的部分特別是米的部分我們有很好的成果那我這邊也不方便說在日本的時候我去拜會了非常關鍵的這些人物那特別討論到稻米的部分"},{"start":137.333,"end":164.571,"text":"那稻米的部分除了鮮食的鮮米的供應以外那未來有沒有機會用台灣的米跟結合日本的清酒釀造技術變成台灣米做成的日本的清酒那這個是另外一個更大的一個商機那這個商機我想後續我想我會再跟委員們做一個說明然後協助大家一起來努力那另外水果部分也是一樣有非常多的商機那還有一個重點就是"},{"start":168.314,"end":184.752,"text":"認證等同那個同等性認證以外日本已經授權我們在台灣直接標日本的有機的產品的標籤不用說貼了台灣以後去到日本再改標那還有簽署了一些MOU的部分我想這個成果後續我們會統計出來以後再跟委員報告好"},{"start":185.353,"end":211.326,"text":"所以我想部長您的看法就是說今年的東京食品展在台日這個雙方尤其是台灣的食品或者是蔬果生鮮蔬果進口到美國進口到日本去其實成效來講您算是滿意的對我看那個買家的這些詢問的氣氛我覺得他比往年都還要熱度還要高"},{"start":212.421,"end":226.145,"text":"那未來其實我想未來我覺得農業部在外銷的這個區塊上面應該要再更加的加強包括我們一直在講這個台美對等貿易協定簽署之後對台灣農業的整體的衝擊這個部長我想"},{"start":232.452,"end":256.06,"text":"這個整個協定裡頭對台灣優勢的地方我覺得這個很清楚但是對台灣或許有一些劣勢的地方到底農業部有沒有做好整體的這一些評估那這些評估報告什麼時候可以比如說在立法院裡頭或者是來跟國人做一些說明或者是在你們整體的施政的政策上面"},{"start":256.86,"end":279.109,"text":"能夠有更具體的作為這一點我其實到目前為止還沒有完全的清楚甚至部長您剛剛講到的原來我們的預算裡頭在這個任性特別條例的預算裡頭大概有匡列了190億跟農業相關的預算那現在總統希望在農業安全的部分能夠把它擴大到300億"},{"start":280.63,"end":292.818,"text":"那你這個300億從191億到300億這個300億要做什麼哪一些部分是優先哪一些部分會特別去加強可不可以請部長您在這裡來說明一下"},{"start":295.76,"end":318.502,"text":"跟委員說明就是在整個對美對等關稅談判過程中其實我們對於整個的品項都有做一個完整的一個衝擊的分析因為談判過程中我們有我們的堅持但是美方也有美方的要求所以我們一直堅持的希望能夠守護我們該守護的這些品項比如說你把這些品項我們守護的品項"},{"start":319.042,"end":337.098,"text":"我想基本的守住一個稻米的部分那是因為從事人口最多的部分而且是我們的糧食安全的一個保障那另外在雞肉的部分我們也守住了那相關的這樣的一個品項的一個守住那像文革好像一些大蒜"},{"start":338.419,"end":362.192,"text":"這個都是比較敏感的區域性的產品我們都守住了那但不可諱言的在有一些開放在討論的過程中有一些勢必要去開放的部分但是在開放部分其實我們也擬妥了因應政策一個非常重要的觀念就是我們有時候擔心美國的產品的價格比台灣的低那我們一直希望建立一個觀念我們不能再用"},{"start":363.092,"end":378.416,"text":"價格的競爭去比較產品我們應該提升到價值的競爭我們應該用價值就是包含的品質那透過品質才去處理這樣的一個農產品第二個部分剛才委員提到的就是180億跟300億之間的差異"},{"start":381.337,"end":398.912,"text":"那181當初只是純粹對外銷的產業的一個支持那300億的龍安基金是針對整體的台北貿易那貿易有一些進口進來可能會造成衝擊的那我們就會用這樣的一個基金的一個經費來協助產業做升級跟它的優化"},{"start":401.994,"end":420.173,"text":"所以你這個產業升級跟優化有沒有包括比如說我們在智慧農業裡頭所需要的這一些系統啊設備啊或者是我們一直在談到這個冷鏈的設施我們如果要外銷要外銷到其他的國家去我覺得台灣的整體的冷鏈設備包括一連串從產地"},{"start":422.475,"end":445.887,"text":"從田間到賣場這一連串的這個保溫的系統保冷的系統是不是在這一連串的這個規劃裡頭會在300億的經費裡面去協助農民或者是協助產銷合作所等等您所說的外銷冷面的部分在現在的190億事實上其中的10億是跟"},{"start":446.727,"end":473.98,"text":"跟那個漁船的那個AIS有關的181裡面就可以來執行了所以我們特別是產業的一個升級裡面一個非常重要的冷鏈的一個建制在現在的情況就不用等到台美關稅確認以後去啟動這個農安基金在這個181就可以執行第二個部分就是冷鏈我們也爭取到了第二期的計畫那第二期計畫同時也會去爭會去啟動這樣的一個冷鏈特別是針對外銷的部分"},{"start":474.687,"end":475.855,"text":"部長你講到第二期計畫的這個錢在哪裡"},{"start":478.547,"end":503.682,"text":"你爭取的第二期計畫預算在哪裡?錢會在哪裡?那個今年的總預算到現在都沒有審我都很擔心你今年的錢不知道下不下的來如果萬一下個月開始來個大雨或者七八月來個颱風你的天然災害災損基金到底能不能撥?到底能不能做?那您跟我講說第二期的冷鏈計畫我也不知道這個錢"},{"start":505.356,"end":531.803,"text":"你可能已經有規劃有底 是但是立法院一直沒過啊對我來講對農民來講那就是有一個大片的底下看得到吃不到啊這就是我們一直擔心的就是我們農業部其實有很好的一個規劃來協助農民但是總預算如果沒過的時候那相對特別是在新政的計畫的部分就沒有辦法動之那有一些是延續的是可以先動之去年的額度但是"},{"start":532.683,"end":558.902,"text":"新的計畫跟舊的計畫一定有關聯性不能一刀就這樣切開來的所以我還是希望說就是大院這邊能夠盡快的審查我們的總預算部長因為我的時間已經到我想其實還有很多的問題要跟您請教但是我覺得在糧食安全在於台灣的這些蔬果做外銷我們很努力的去推動的這個同時其實有一些基礎的設施基礎的設備"},{"start":560.623,"end":565.598,"text":"基礎的這個基本工基本工我們一定要做得好啦好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167673","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167673","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053fb273a31923ea2dbf85a32efe0b6ef7a2d0c74f479c2f64a0172323f4dd3fbb95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"12:17:03 - 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謝謝主席 我們邀請農業部部長農業部陳部長我的那個呢 簡報筆呢委員好等我一下 找一下我的簡報筆"},{"start":31.257,"end":53.799,"text":"好 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因為這個功能到底這個技術是有什麼樣子的功能我想這個社群平台APP應該都是可以做到的事情啊因為用我們APP GPS可以很精準的定位但是用一般的照相機 它的GPS定位不會那麼精準"},{"start":335.894,"end":363.584,"text":"好沒關係那這個部分我們事後再討論不過我想要回到剛剛的第一個問題就是說我們最後還是希望可以透過這個資訊傳出來之後讓公民可以一起來做相關的研究嘛分佈位置啊然後衝突的部分其實公民也可以一起來參與嘛那現階段沒有那大概預計有什麼時候可以開放讓大家來一起共同的導入更多的研究量度呢這個在開放的過程中我想我們不會那麼輕易的開放但是如果說"},{"start":364.344,"end":379.857,"text":"有特定的公民團體願意利用這個東西去做研究但是也必須切結承諾不對外公開那我們可以考慮大家一起來合作好啊 那這樣子的話我再請這些團體來我們再要請我們再一起來討論好了不過再給我一點時間齁 抱歉"},{"start":384.241,"end":411.313,"text":"就是有關於狂犬病的部分就是狂犬病目前我們可以看到這個案例上面這兩個月的統計數字已經是這七年來最高的高峰了平均過去大概是13 14但是今年已經到了19那我想這部分其實也要趕快的跟我們的這有可能會爆發大規模的傳染這是可能是一個可潛在的風險所以我們現在是不是有一個提前的盤點整體的防疫上面去避免它造成可能有讓選"},{"start":412.273,"end":434.446,"text":"的傳染或是其他的物種的傳染我想第一個部分就是我們要積極的加強那個狂犬病的疫苗對狗隻犬隻還有貓的部分那貓可能機會比較小因為在家裡但是有一個熱區就是說比較靠近田間的野外的這些區域我想我們會更主動的去通知他們來打狂犬病疫苗"},{"start":435.527,"end":441.452,"text":"好 沒關係 我想時間已經到了我們會後約時間討論好了 好不好 謝謝好 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麻煩請衛福部長請時部長曾委員好部長好我想在這邊我們也是先謝謝昭緯他這次特別安排這次的專案報告那當然就是說特別原件法的部分是本席在擔任昭緯的時候112年"},{"start":32.961,"end":53.027,"text":"那個時候我們一起大家一起努力通過的那當然那個時候我也還要再特別謝謝我們當時的次長石次長那時候在沒有行政院版本推出的時候共同和本席一起密謀沒有密謀我們是協助委員"},{"start":56.408,"end":68.939,"text":"那就是也非常站在我們原住民這邊一起幫忙把這個法案通過那當然就是說我們都很關心現在落實的狀況那當然"},{"start":72.822,"end":87.5,"text":"就是前面在你們的這個報告裡面有提到落實了哪些但是我想很多委員特別是招委特別他要爭取擔任招委應該很重要的一個目的也還是回到這個專責單位這個問題"},{"start":89.822,"end":108.384,"text":"那我想其實不管他的專責單位是設定成什麼那最重要還是事在人為就是重要那個人到底有沒有去執行有沒有落實才是最重要的那當然我這樣講也不是要讓你們打折扣啦因為我就想說來先了解一下"},{"start":109.125,"end":133.02,"text":"在你們這個原件法通過之後你們特別指定了這個照護司來作為這個專責單位那我想請教在你們指定他們成為專責單位之後呢在業務上的執行上還有你們的人力運用上跟就是過去跟現在有什麼差別"},{"start":134.356,"end":161.477,"text":"我跟委員報告當然在人力上並沒有擴編但是未來我們現在進行主改未來我也討論到原本在這個護理及健康照護師裡面的有一些業務他會整併到這個未來的那個長照署去但是我們的人力會把它維持住來多增加一些人來協助做援助民族健康的政策的規劃擬定跟推動"},{"start":162.297,"end":177.905,"text":"所以這個我們會去放大它的份量因為在這個法通過至今已經將近三年在過去這個兩三年的當中其實也做了不少的事情包含我們的研究中心那個開始建的資料庫研究計畫的推動"},{"start":180.786,"end":201.056,"text":"這個委員會政策會的成立四個小組的運作那我看也有不少的產出跟建議讓我們在政策上落實然後現在也在擬定這個中長城計畫當中就原住民族健康的中長城計畫我想主要我想在這個過程我大概還原一些事情"},{"start":202.196,"end":217.217,"text":"那因為畢竟就是說在原先最早期叫做山地離島科那現在叫第三科嘛那當然我們就是說在協商的過程大家想先求有再求好那大家各退一步"},{"start":217.717,"end":242.524,"text":"所以在這個專責單位的部分其實我們也我自己本身當然就是要用成立這個署那但是我想協商過程當中我們也同意說那是不是在這個我們在這個私之下還有這麼還有一個名額那是不是還可以成立第四科那但是後來也沒有"},{"start":243.904,"end":271.085,"text":"這將近三年的時間因為我在看第三科的這個預算跟人力甚至預算也還是有流用的狀況所以這個人力也沒有增加那剛剛部長也特別提了所以當然你也講到說未來但我不知道這個未來還需要多久的時間我們就很怕這個時光匆匆就這樣虛晃過去所以今天也特別再提一下就是說"},{"start":273.086,"end":298.097,"text":"也特別要求就是在人力跟經費上的這個投入我們都一定要把它當作一回事很重要的事情來推動不然我們通過這個法就沒有用了跟委員說明就剛我有特別提到現在正在擬定這個原住民族健康的中長城計畫在那個計畫裡面我們會來爭取更多的預算投入在原住民族健康的促進跟改善這樣"},{"start":299.057,"end":320.917,"text":"那在另外我想很多委員都關心這個原住民族跟全國人口的平均餘命差距的問題那從你們的這個健康紀刊有登載就是從2017年的差距8.17歲那已經改善到2021年的6.94歲而且本席還有發現不論是哪"},{"start":321.797,"end":341.808,"text":"哪一個人口族群本來平均餘命都是逐年增加的但是這個全國人口的這個平均餘命竟然在2021年的時候還比2020年還低少了0.46年而且原住民的這個差距的部分還繼續在成長增加了這個0.26年"},{"start":343.729,"end":362.723,"text":"那本席的猜測可能是當時有受到這個COVID-19的影響所以全國人口平均餘命說才減少當然也有可能在短時間內它可能或許還會再變動目前原住民跟全國人民的平均餘命差距是多少7.54"},{"start":369.147,"end":394.726,"text":"那剛才的資料顯示因為原住民族在這個嚴重傳染流行嚴重傳染病流行有沒有因為健康不平等受到影響那成為一個我們大家都很關心一個很重要的一個課題那甚至在未來呢可以成為這個檢定你們對於這個法案執行的這個成效目標"},{"start":396.367,"end":419.964,"text":"是一個成效的指標那部長是否同意這樣子的可能性其實您一提我也回想到其實在COVID當中我們也很擔心這個城鄉落差偏遠地區的健康不平等的問題所以那時候委員還特別提醒還有那個快篩啊還有一些那個藥物啊那些要對這個"},{"start":422.285,"end":439.863,"text":"原鄉地區啊那個時候你還特別提了好幾個地點給我那個確實不過現在看起來好像比那個全國的要好就是看起來原住民那邊的年齡是反而他是繼續再延長的"},{"start":440.123,"end":457.951,"text":"因為在這部法案通過的時候COVID-19疫情當然它是持續退散的那急性傳染病的防疫也當然涉及很多這個醫藥衛生的專業那地方主管機關的協調甚至跟這個原住民族文化特性有關的這些"},{"start":459.191,"end":474.59,"text":"也是提醒衛福部應該要重視原住民那所以在未來我們這個重大的這個傳染病或疾病的預防控制可以更嚴謹的態度去看待所以也希望部長可以教辦下去那"},{"start":478.663,"end":505.208,"text":"因為這部法案的立法精神是促進原住民族健康建構以原住民族為主體的健康政策改善原住民族健康不平等的情形所以本法的目的當然是這樣所以針對原住民的健康政策我們明定就是應該要尊重原住民族意願自主的發展所以在法案的重點"},{"start":508.209,"end":534.398,"text":"在於這個原住民族健康政策制定的品質跟落實的情形那目前你們有訂定相關的這個政策白皮書嗎就是你們的這個讓外界知道衛福部的理念跟方向之前是有一本專章啦就是在之前我們是在有一個健康白皮書裡面有一個原住民族專章啦"},{"start":535.218,"end":550.438,"text":"那現在我們要你的就是中長城計畫專門對這個原民健康所以這個也等同你們的政策白皮書應該也可以算你們大概什麼時候會完成"},{"start":552.076,"end":577.591,"text":"因為這個我們會希望在明年的預算裡面去編列所以現在正在撰寫這個中長城計劃爭取明年的預算當然是希望明年預算要省所以爭取到了我們才有辦法因為它就變成新興新興計劃對所以如果總預算再不省的話我們這些也就一樣又回來又害到我們原住民自己所以那個可能也拜託趙偉跟你們黨團講一下那"},{"start":582.093,"end":599.312,"text":"好像沒有反應,可以嗎?可以齁,好。那個趙偉,心心計畫啦,我們會提心心計畫。趙偉很害羞嗎?好。那沒關係,因為我們今天這個都有列入公報齁,所以我幫忙那個,剛剛趙偉您是點頭嗎?"},{"start":602.292,"end":620.091,"text":"統一就跟黨團溝通一下免得我們接下來這個原住民的這個健康的這個原建法的這個政策白皮書中長城計畫會難產所以這個部分就拜託召委要多幫忙那"},{"start":621.792,"end":647.148,"text":"我想我最后提一下在这个我们政策实质内容上我们应该又从这个数据找目标然后从这个调查研究跟统计了解原住民的这个我们十大死因十大癌症死因跟其他影响健康的因素因为在过去呢我们都是跟全国性的统计资料都混在一起嘛那我们只有占这个全国的这个2.5%的"},{"start":650.19,"end":668.784,"text":"所以你說這些數據原住民在裡面往往都被稀釋掉所以自然就沒有辦法從數據中被看見實質上的這個結果跟原因那目前衛福部有沒有依照這個原住民族特殊的健康問題"},{"start":670.845,"end":684.436,"text":"這個生活型態環境生物因子還有醫療資源的面向定期的做調查跟研究那原住民的這個健康狀況跟健康需求就是說你們有沒有去建置原住民族的健康資料庫這個部分"},{"start":685.937,"end":712.992,"text":"跟委員報告這個資料庫的這個主辦單位那個國衛院的院長也在這裡他們很努力的去把這個不同的資料庫把它以這個原住民為中心把它整合在一起那就如同剛剛這個委員也特別提醒到的因為這個原住民的人口相對少所以在做分析的時候有時候會遇到一些難處譬如說以漁民來講它的變動就會比較大"},{"start":714.893,"end":733.778,"text":"所以我們才會抓以這個三年的這個移動平均來做這個統計所以類似像這樣它要做一點校正所以在資料收集之後在做細分類的時候細分析的時候有時候又於這個人口數比較少"},{"start":734.578,"end":762.941,"text":"那可能也會受到一些障礙所以才需要有一個專責專門來做這個研究的因為我們畢竟有一些不然混在大數據裡面就不容易凸顯出它的差異是因為在這個文化畢竟有這個特殊性所以我們希望可以就針對原住民族的部分把剛剛提的這些十大死因十大癌症死因的這些特別獨立出來再做研究這樣會比較清楚"},{"start":768.243,"end":791.311,"text":"法案14條因為也有講到中央主管機關應該針對原住民族的傳統醫療保健知識的研究推廣來促進原住民族的傳統醫療跟健康生活的發展不知道部長要如何去推廣原住民族被證實有效的中草藥或食品你大概會 部長會用什麼樣的話術"},{"start":794.348,"end":808.574,"text":"因為這個要很小心不小心江署長可能會罰部長宣稱了笑是不是在推廣的過程難免都會因為這個"},{"start":810.094,"end":827.398,"text":"會如實運用期刊論文上已經被證實的這個有效資料所以會不會因為宣稱療效然後抵觸食品安全衛生然後被裁罰這個搞不好也是未來我們會面臨的問題這個其實我們那個原住民傳統醫療跟這個中醫藥有點像啦"},{"start":832.379,"end":861.353,"text":"因為它取材來自於自然界嘛不是這種這個合成或化學的成分藥那但是呢因為有這麼悠遊的悠長的歷史經過這麼多的人體經驗累積的這個但是跟我們現在西方醫學所講的這個實證依據的臨床效果確實這個中間是有認知上的落差啦"},{"start":861.493,"end":878.251,"text":"我們畢竟中藥其實裡面它是一個大數據的累積但是它未必每一項都有科學實證所以這兩項比較起來其實是非常不公平的所以我也特別指出這一點要有不同的思維對 供各位參考"},{"start":879.933,"end":907.182,"text":"還是在這裡特別感謝部長就是對於原建法的這個重視跟支持那所以我想我也要有所回饋那對於就是勞動部偷人偷你們衛福部的這個護理人員人力這件事情看起來好像部長到目前都還束手無策所以"},{"start":908.615,"end":936.024,"text":"部長一直笑 不知道是你有解決了嗎沒有 還沒解決 還沒解決那我想 這是很嚴重的問題啦所以如果部長還沒辦法去協商解決我可能考慮在總諮詢的時候幫幫你們去跟請院長主持公道好看這個部分要怎麼調整因為畢竟這個關係到全體國人的這個健康需求"},{"start":937.332,"end":941.882,"text":"謝謝委員的指導所以OK啦好謝謝好麻煩那我們繼續努力好謝謝好謝謝陳委員發言"}]}},{"id":"17275","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17275","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e8c1e201b3fb6835a54db1c4ee7c7f0d1157d0edf07c12ea6caf5c9dffdf168ae5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-03-18","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-03-18T08:40:59+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-18T12:25:00+08:00","duration":13441,"影片長度":"03:44:01","委員發言時間":"08:40:59 - 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委員央求您所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登通報並請相關部會議書面答覆宣讀完畢在長委員會主法定人數議事錄暫不確定請議事人員宣讀今日議程"},{"start":1227.645,"end":1252.441,"text":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金融率所屬機關所長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司監管相關機構有關之財團法人台灣證券交易所股份有限公司台灣期貨交易所股份有限公司台灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長總經理列席業務報告並備諮詢宣讀完畢現在介紹在場委員首先介紹林德福委員"},{"start":1256.636,"end":1271.305,"text":"介紹與會政府官員金融監督管理委員會彭金榮主任委員金融市場發展及創新處林希慎處長綜合規劃處劉秀琳處長法律事務處林志憲處長國際業務處賴明賢處長資訊服務處林玉泰處長"},{"start":1287.517,"end":1313.278,"text":"祕書是江俊德主任陳氏是孫成錦主任主計是簡鳳琴主任振豐是趙立金主任銀行局童振章局長證券期貨局高金平局長保險局王立慧局長"},{"start":1315.51,"end":1342.832,"text":"檢察局賴新國局長中央存款保險股份有限公司黃天牧董事長政民會總經理台灣證券交易所股份有限公司林修民董事長李愛玲總經理台灣期貨交易所股份有限公司吳志欣董事長周建榮總經理"},{"start":1345.316,"end":1374.361,"text":"台灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司林秉輝董事長陳德湘總經理財團法人中華民國證券櫃台買賣中心簡立中董事長陳立新總經理財團法人證券投資人及企業交易人保護中心張新替董事長林俊宏總經理"},{"start":1376.544,"end":1401.528,"text":"財團法人中華民國證券暨期貨市場發展基金會張振山董事長張立真總經理財團法人聯合信用卡處理中心桂仙榮董事長呂慧榮總經理財團法人金融聯合徵信中心張國民總經理代理董事長"},{"start":1403.84,"end":1425.93,"text":"財政法人金融言信院雷仲達董事長高一誠院長財政法人汽車交通事故特別補償基金陳在懷總經理財政法人住宅地震保險基金張玉輝董事長辛進賢總經理"},{"start":1431.168,"end":1453.73,"text":"財團法人保險安定基金陳昌正總經理財團法人保險事業發展中心黃洪志董事長詹芳舒總經理財團法人金融消費平益中心杜怡靜董事長羅俊偉總經理以上"},{"start":1461.192,"end":1467.341,"text":"金融監督管理委員會列席業務報告現在請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員進行業務報告"},{"start":1473.584,"end":1487.934,"text":"主席各位委員媒體朋友大家早安陳貴文會邀請提出報告自感榮幸以下緊究國內金融概況及重點工作事項提出報告一國內金融概況114年銀行證券期貨保險三頁合計盈餘新台幣9833億元截至114年底本國銀行平均資本氏族率為15.81與其放緩比例為0.51"},{"start":1501.102,"end":1505.084,"text":"壽信品質良好上市櫃公司總加數1937家總市值101.76兆元股市基本面穩健保險業資產總額38兆2691億元業務持續穩健成長"},{"start":1517.113,"end":1533.26,"text":"二 重點工作事項 一 強化金融業資本韌性與風險管理持續辦理銀行申請IRB具體資本事辦推動保險業新一代清償能力制度至115年1月1日正式實施保險業接軌實施IFR17至115年起以正式接軌實施修正發布保險業財務報告編制準則之兌換損益規定"},{"start":1543.244,"end":1563.197,"text":"建立更嚴謹嚴格的準備經提存及特別因公積提列規範及相對應資本認列機制達成永續經營強化資本韌性發布金融資安韌性發展藍圖發布金融檢查重點推動銀行監理數位申請報告分析機制推動公發公司接軌IFR18"},{"start":1564.338,"end":1583.565,"text":"二 健全金融市場發展修正發布金空公司投資管理辦法規定以符合金融市場併購實物健全市場秩序完善虛擬資產監理架構持續推動虛擬資產服務法草案立法作業嚴定九項授權執法引導保險業投入國內公建及策略性投資"},{"start":1584.625,"end":1604.878,"text":"公布獎勵本國銀行辦理五大信賴產業放款方案持續推動信託業務發展健全保險業結構及促進保險商品多元化發展檢討強制汽車責任保險機制落實消費者權益保護與普惠金融修正詐欺犯罪危害防治條例金融專章"},{"start":1605.839,"end":1626.612,"text":"提升房價精準度精準掌握高風險帳戶交易強化融資租賃業消費者保護措施符合一定條件之融資租賃業納入金融消費者保護法適用第二階段已於3月15號生效將13家金融機構轉投資業者納入適用第三階段預計今年9月納管"},{"start":1627.752,"end":1647.92,"text":"營造金融友善服務環境提升高齡消費者投保便利及兼顧投保權益提高強制車險、死亡給付及第一級私能給付金額提高至300萬元落實金融服務業公平代課原則、精進金融知識普及工作推動亞洲資產管理中心以完成發布48項法規函令鬆綁"},{"start":1652.162,"end":1679.984,"text":"金融業資產管理規模增加5.7兆元已有21檔主動式ETF掛牌上市櫃TESA人數已經超過10萬人開戶24家投信公司39檔基金加入台日ETF相互掛牌已有兩檔ETF掛牌並成立亞洲資產管理中心推動辦公室金融發展與亞資中心策進會以及國際四大快遞事務所諮詢平台"},{"start":1682.046,"end":1695.817,"text":"啟動亞洲創新投資平台 精進上市櫃制度 優化股債雙籌支管道以修正三項法令及合備金融周邊單位共77項規章修正114年舉辦首屆台灣州活動 吸引2.8萬人次參與115年將持續擴大舉辦台灣州持續推動地方管理專區業務 以核准51家金融機構進駐高雄"},{"start":1706.665,"end":1734.953,"text":"設置三大工作方研議後續業務與制度完善方向開放OSU對境外客戶辦理不限用途款項借貸業務研議OBU OSU OMU聯合開戶及跨業協作規範滿足境外客戶一站式金融服務強化TISA功能與誘因與相關部會延伸適合本國特性及社會共識之租稅鼓勵措施積極協助退休第三制度建構五 加速金融科技創新與發展"},{"start":1736.233,"end":1757.868,"text":"持續推動開放銀行及開放證券推動數位保險公司發展設立並對外受理申請設立推動虛擬資產保管業務主題式業務事辦發展虛擬資產保管服務推動現實世界資產RW代幣化發布數位金融服務包容性指引建置金融Face ID驗證轉接中心"},{"start":1759.496,"end":1782.354,"text":"114年10月辦理2025台北金融科技論壇預計今年10月舉辦2026台北金融科技展6 落實永續金融驅動低碳轉型研擬第三版永續經濟活動認定參考指引持續辦理永續金融評鑑辦理永續相關說明會及座談會推動上市會公司及金融業接軌IFAS永續揭露準則"},{"start":1784.156,"end":1811.415,"text":"為建立安全與發展並進的新金融市場本會將依循本報告所提六大重要施政方向持續強化金融業資本韌性健全金融市場發展保護消費者權益打造具台灣特色的亞洲資產管理中心推動金融科技創新發展亦透過綠色轉型金融行動方案等引導產業永續發展以上報告 敬請指教 謝謝好 謝謝彭主委"},{"start":1813.428,"end":1831.943,"text":"現在開始詢答 先做以下宣告一 每位出席委員發言時間8分鐘 必要時得延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言時間5分鐘 今日上午10時截止發言登記現依登記順序 請登記第一位林德福委員質詢"},{"start":1842.512,"end":1847.559,"text":"謝謝 謝謝主席請管委員 彭主委請彭主委委員早安 彭主委早 彭主委我請教 因為打造EBI"},{"start":1859.231,"end":1887.252,"text":"儀表板資料顯示115年1到2月假投資詐騙是最多的財損原因那警方受理差不多3090件財損合計54億民怨真的四起那北京走訪基層經常也在探討民眾建議說台灣要比照新加坡增加變形詐騙犯"},{"start":1888.635,"end":1917.126,"text":"或提供銀行帳戶者將被強制以邊形尤其那個TVBS的民調高達七成的民眾贊成引進邊形來處這些詐騙犯那本席請問我們在場的很多董事長跟總經理們你們要是反對邊形的詐騙犯的請舉手好不好反對的"},{"start":1918.948,"end":1934.988,"text":"這個是也是民調之一你看幾乎大家都沒有反對因為講實在話為什麼要做這樣民調我包括很多那個場面裡面有分局分局長他都贊成說應該要加變形"},{"start":1937.762,"end":1964.823,"text":"我問過N場了啦其實我們是要解決問題啊那媒體報導詐欺集團的人頭賬戶啊遭警示凍結來不及領走的這些賬款還有幾十億啦那我請問彭主委這些被凍結的詐騙的賬款金額確確有多少你了不了解這我沒有確切的數據沒有去做統計是不是對"},{"start":1966.645,"end":1974.397,"text":"應該是有這個數據啦因為這個可能不是我們這邊或是我可以請銀行局局長可以來跟銀行局長來你了不了解"},{"start":1976.29,"end":1992.024,"text":"目前我們沒有這樣做一個統計但是在法治上我們有被害人款項返還我了解 因為那個 滕主委依法 請方可以將查扣人頭的帳戶詐騙的帳款還給被害的民眾但經由查對 曠日會時"},{"start":1999.271,"end":2022.851,"text":"那查緝辦案處理人力有限導致這些被害人的屍款看得到拿不回那我請問彭主委未來儘管會用哪些方法可以協助這些警方來加快金流茶隊的程序儘早讓這些受詐的這些被害人拿回自己的錢你有沒有什麼想法那個彭主委"},{"start":2024.012,"end":2037.621,"text":"謝謝委員的指正,剛才委員提到對於詐騙,我們也是大家都一樣深惡痛絕但是對於受害人而言,最重要的除了懲治詐騙犯以外,很重要就是能夠減少損失,返還這些所謂被騙的金額"},{"start":2042.944,"end":2058.009,"text":"不過這個狀況比較複雜那我們在現行的法規裡面如果說有很明確的知道這個帳戶的來源確實這樣的話確實有一個機制直接可以由司法機關就可以通知然後就把它返還但是我們看到一個實務的狀況就是當"},{"start":2059.569,"end":2083.266,"text":"受害人驚覺到這個結果的時候已經經過層層轉了以後那雖然知道這張款但是最後要明確知道它的詳細的內容是花點時間我們最近也有看到有個銀行非常主動的個案那我們已經請銀行局深入去理解假設這是一個未來大家可以通用的方式來做的話我們會協調司法單位看有沒有怎麼樣的辦法"},{"start":2084.207,"end":2111.084,"text":"金融機構這邊一定是全力來協助金流的比對但是最後呢怎麼樣返還我們會利用這個各種的成功的個案我們想盡辦法來協助民眾返還他受騙的金額好我希望說彭主委一定啊這個要去做一套機制那多費一點時間我認為這個因為他受詐以後真的那種心境我們可以理解"},{"start":2112.125,"end":2126.48,"text":"那今天要是說抓到詐騙犯而且已經掌握到他的整個金流那該緩緩的你們要有一套機制啊積極的來做處理彭主委儘管會要求銀行做防詐"},{"start":2127.721,"end":2141.476,"text":"結果道高一尺 謀高一丈現在詐騙集團大量的利用虛擬貨幣把錢洗到海外今晚為現在虛擬資產的主管機關那我請問主委你們有沒有從源頭斬斷洗錢金流的鐵碗"},{"start":2148.964,"end":2162.715,"text":"其實我們有想到的方法我們大概都做比如說我們現在針對我們一般的金融機構跟我們虛擬資產服務業者之間的一些的金流管控我們已經有這個機制"},{"start":2163.976,"end":2184.256,"text":"再來我們現在已經逐步納管我們的虛擬資產服務業者那實際上他們也針對這些這個所謂的詐騙房子還有一些洗錢部分也納入政府我們也跟速發部有建立這樣的合作機制來做這個管理我想這個透過整個制度的到位應該會逐步的會改善"},{"start":2184.716,"end":2184.816,"text":"是 這個是"},{"start":2207.856,"end":2233.117,"text":"打詐防詐是通例的行為我知道基層員警跟檢察官都非常辛苦其實銀行端也非常的辛苦銀行當然我們這幾年主詐就超過了應該260億吧就是說協助這個民眾這個主卻我想大部分的臨櫃關懷我想大家都知道其實我們大家都很努力其實我們絕對不會把所有的所謂的把這個責任推給某一個部分其實大家都很努力像我們在臨櫃關懷的時候除了我們"},{"start":2234.358,"end":2261.126,"text":"基層的行員其實我們基層的員警也盡了非常大的力量來做這件事情那我想我們會來精進我們的做法好希望更積極一些啦那個主委因為媒體報導許多授權公司啊2026年要積極來推展房貸的業務然而卻有這些公股基層的銀行人員跟本席來抱怨啦反應高層要求銀行行員幫"},{"start":2263.907,"end":2279.913,"text":"這個保險公司來拉保險雖然銀行大賺手續會的收入卻讓第一線理財的這些專員壓力大增長久下來恐怕會讓保險公司不像保險公司而且銀行不像銀行"},{"start":2281.594,"end":2302.615,"text":"確實現在是存在的喔根據金管會資料統計112年到113年八大公股、行股遭到客戶申訴銀行通路有不當的這些招攬保險的行為共發生了117件那本期是希望說金管會在落實督導"},{"start":2303.996,"end":2332.157,"text":"讓銀行業及保險業各自他們來回歸他專業的專注的本業那除了賺錢獲利更要承擔更多這個企業社會的一個責任以避免這些銀行裡專人員以不當的話術誘使民眾來購買不熟悉的這些金融保險商品以免未來發生一些更多的投資糾紛那個主委你有什麼看法"},{"start":2333.397,"end":2356.287,"text":"實際上我們經貨市場的管理有兩大塊一個就是市場行為的管理我想剛才委員所指正的就是市場行為的管理這部分我們對銀行保險業我們從2001年經貨公司設立以來2005年做大幅的開放實際上這部分我們已經針對陸陸續續對銀行在銷售保險商品應該做的一些事項做過非常非常多的規範我想剛才提到的這些"},{"start":2356.667,"end":2372.724,"text":"所有爭議案件我們也都會進到評議中心去評議如果做成決議的話大部分人也都會遵守我想這部分我們會來動態調整我們會非常的關注像這種不當銷售行為一直都是市場管理上非常重要的那確實現在是存在現在變成保險不像保險那銀行不像銀行"},{"start":2375.487,"end":2393.84,"text":"結果銀行那些理專都在招保險他有通路跨售的這樣一個情況這也是金融整合的一個過程我想也不是台灣因為客戶有他一站式消費的需求所以銀行有他的優勢但是呢常常不能因為銀行的一些的所謂資訊上的優勢或是他一些"},{"start":2396.401,"end":2413.389,"text":"過去我們已經有很多很多的規範來規範我想銀行是一個高度遵守這個法規的一個行業我想我們只要有規定下去他們都會遵守這我會請保險局跟銀行局密切的關注這些一些申訴的個案來修改我們的相關的辦法"},{"start":2414.409,"end":2441.562,"text":"主委最近台股履創新高全民都在瘋狂討論股票今天本席在財委會來替全國股民問主委一個最直接的問題台股現在到底你認為有沒有過熱其實我在很多的在這個地方我講過很多事情其實我們不會去預測我們台股的一些的內容因為我們是一個市場的監理者所以"},{"start":2443.838,"end":2457.507,"text":"這個沒有辦法透過我這邊的觀察因為現在有很多因素而且我們表面上看股市是史無前例的這些大牛市但是本席在地方上聽到確實有許多股民的哀嚎"},{"start":2458.328,"end":2484.847,"text":"因為現在的台股出現了跟我們總體經濟一樣的K型化的趨勢大盤指數往上衝都是靠極檔的AI科技股在衝而傳統產業一般小型這些股啊小型股根本就是沒有漲這是賺了指數賠了差價那散戶根本沒有享受到股市創新高的這些紅利主委你怎麼看呢"},{"start":2485.467,"end":2510.977,"text":"我想資本市場本來就是要謹慎投資注意風險我想一直都是這樣跟指數的高低其實沒有太大的差別這個都是一直都要關注那你說產業結構跟資本市場發展的我們也有請教育所密切的注意這些這些比如說它的股價跟它的經營績效之間的一些關聯程度來看看是不是我們的資本市場效率性有什麼做法可以來提升"},{"start":2512.197,"end":2536.525,"text":"我是希望說一定要提醒大家因為現在我們都是跟著美國股市在走但是現在局勢真的是很亂要非常的小心謝謝謝謝委員請問在場的各位委員對上一次的議事錄有沒有意見沒有意見議事錄確定下一位發言的委員請李燕秀委員"},{"start":2543.248,"end":2545.898,"text":"新席召委 我可不可以請金管會彭主委"},{"start":2552.13,"end":2579.763,"text":"委員長安主委長安我昨天特別看到關注到一則跟我們金管會相關的新聞就是法國巴黎產險結束在台灣將近四分之一個世紀在台灣的經營業務要撤離台灣法巴這家產品公司雖然市占率只有0.05%員工也不多只有32人看起來後續"},{"start":2581.844,"end":2605.435,"text":"無論是對保單保護也好相關的保單相關的權益包括員工的權益我相信我們今晚會後續應該都會有一套完整的機制去做輔導但是我今天要問的是我們都知道就是說我們一直希望國際化的多角經營讓更多國際公司在台灣不只如此我昨天還特別看到新聞是包括港商"},{"start":2606.536,"end":2622.052,"text":"港商法國興業還有瑞士信貸銀行台北捐運分公司兩家券商還有德寶信義投資近三年都有可能撤離台灣這個背後代表的意義今天是我要跟主委溝通討論的"},{"start":2623.693,"end":2642.319,"text":"雖然保護不多4.8萬人保單4.8萬張然後員工32人但是到底他背後他過去三年他還有投資將近5億所以不是他不肯投入那也不是長期過去沒有賺錢要不然他不會在台灣已經做了25年"},{"start":2643.94,"end":2669.978,"text":"那到底是什麼因素它是因為台灣的政治環境嗎還是是因為在台灣近幾年不賺錢還是現在台灣我們面臨很多產業都是大者過去台灣早期六七零年代我們台灣是中小企業那近幾年我們看到很多產業都開始變成大者很大小的就經營不下去台灣很多產業現在有這樣子的狀況"},{"start":2672.219,"end":2693.817,"text":"那主委就是說背後的意義到底是什麼你有沒有去研究我們通常在講說我們希望台灣變成國際化亞太的金融投資中心等等外國人多一點那外國人多一點進來他通常他都很習慣的去找自己熟悉的保險業就是就譬如說我們到國外去投資我們通常喜歡找富邦喜歡找星光就是他們自己熟悉的來去做互動"},{"start":2699.562,"end":2727.743,"text":"所以背後的原因到底是什麼主委你有沒有去思考過謝謝謝謝委員關注這議題啊委員知道過去我在保險市場應該快將近三十幾年四十年的時間我歷經了所有台灣保險市場大開放以及開始就是他們的大轉型的整個過程我想這個案子其實如果真的要生就起來的話一個非常非常底層的問題就是對一個保險市場而言它的國際化本來就是非常困難的"},{"start":2729.396,"end":2743.696,"text":"國際化怎麼樣?國際化本來就困難因為我們從過去的學術研究就發現說其實各個市場都傾向於跟本國的保險業者來購買所以對一個外國保險公司如果要到另外一個國家拓展業務本來就是一個很大的挑戰"},{"start":2743.916,"end":2769.665,"text":"主委你這樣的回答等一下我先把它講完但是呢假設我們在台灣是在一個剛發展中的國家外資是有絕對的優勢所以在很多國家裡面他在剛發展的時候外資確實是可以佔有一席之地所以我們可以看得到就是我們在台灣開放的早期外資確實在這邊扮演非常非常重要而且是帶動整個產業的發展但隨著本地的這些市場開始成長以後這是非常現實的問題那競爭力的問題還有他們策略的問題我想"},{"start":2773.246,"end":2791.762,"text":"我當然同意主委你剛剛講的競爭力的問題但是我們都希望台灣亞太金融投資中心更多國際的錢投資在台灣你剛剛講說大家都習慣把錢放在自己熟悉的相關的業務自己本國的業者"},{"start":2793.464,"end":2809.263,"text":"我們來討論新加坡好了新加坡就有多少外資的銀行受險業者在新加坡所以你這樣的說法我並不是十分認同就以這個個案而言其實每個個案它來進入台灣都是一個審慎的思考"},{"start":2810.044,"end":2827.682,"text":"主委我不討論個案我只是要跟您探討背後的趨勢到底發生了什麼事為什麼是不是因為外資現在未來中長期外資會投資台灣少他看不到即便過去投資了三億過去三年還是五年他又投資三億其實看不到未來的期望"},{"start":2831.366,"end":2852.977,"text":"賺不到錢還是我們台灣的政治因素我覺得這個也是背後 主委我們包括我們財政部 金管會 經濟部都要重新思考的我知道委員關心這件事情但是我覺得大家就單看這個表面的時候沒有去深究每個個案的背後那會產生一個誤解認為台灣的經營狀況惡化其實就以這個個案而言根本不是這個樣子"},{"start":2853.877,"end":2876.717,"text":"我想主要是國際的公司在全球佈局的時候有他自己的策略如果各位有關注一下很多國際的公司在亞洲做這個調整不是在台灣我想這個是他們在只是我們看這個個案會有這個想法其實就以我們主委我剛剛不是只有討論這個個案因為近三年撤離台灣的還有包括瑞士信貸銀行等等沒關係主委我只是提醒你這件事情我覺得身為政務官"},{"start":2877.398,"end":2903.914,"text":"我們要去思考台灣的投資環境是不是發生了什麼樣的變化因為我們一直講說我們想辦法追上新加坡這也是你提了好幾次我也期望我們是這樣我也期待我們在這邊監督質詢我們的期待就是如此所以主委背後的政治因素投資環境到底發生了什麼事情這是我要提醒主委我們要思考的地方當然每一個投資他沒有賺錢他當然就走因為這是自由市場嘛"},{"start":2904.975,"end":2924.789,"text":"我們是資本自由市場他沒有在那裡走但是我們要思考他為什麼賺不到錢那為什麼沒有足夠的過去他可以重回台灣25年那前10年他一定有看到願景那為什麼現在沒有所以這個東京變化到底發生了什麼事情我覺得要去做分析"},{"start":2925.569,"end":2945.074,"text":"我是說剛好有這個機會可以跟您說明我覺得說大家看這個個案我們當然很關注說是不是台灣投資情況惡化我答案可以說不是非常的明確只是說他二十幾年比如說這個集團在台灣過去投資有四家公司非常多有他自己的經營模式後來他自己做一個改變其實我覺得這個我們都尊重但是你要確保我們台灣的客戶跟員工的權益我想"},{"start":2948.695,"end":2975.506,"text":"這是最基本這個我相信你會做得到這是最基本的要求我只是今天透過這個質詢我今天有三個題目我只是點醒就是說背後的政治因素環境因素我們想辦法要國際的投資客都進來台灣投資是不是發生了什麼變化這是我要提醒的地方因為這個不是只有你因為這個橫跨經濟部各方面但是我覺得身為執政黨這個部分就要去注意這是我第一個問題第二個問題"},{"start":2977.527,"end":3000.203,"text":"4月1號剛上路的那個旅遊不變心智的保險這剛上路沒多久但是我覺得心智上當背後它有它一定的意義跟你們做過思考但我覺得還有幾點我要提醒就是沒有思考到我們現在無論是訂了幾副或累積幾副的部分我們都有一個上限"},{"start":3000.743,"end":3011.67,"text":"譬如說累積給付的部分就是說我們現在就要求說只能最多買兩張保單然後累積給付的部分就是延誤四小時可以賠六千塊滿八小時賠一萬兩千塊那最高理賠只有兩萬四千塊"},{"start":3018.394,"end":3036.406,"text":"這跟過去不同的是過去可以各單項就是時之時復我保班機延誤險我保如果班機延誤的話後面旅館什麼跟著陪我就可以指定哪幾項但是後來我們新制做這樣的調整是因為我覺得旅遊過程當中有很多"},{"start":3037.307,"end":3047.31,"text":"沒有去思考到的就是一個班機延誤他可能衍生很多不同的費用包括膳食費住宿費還有包括現在機票改票費非常的貴因為現在機票因為油價的關係整個都上漲那但是理賠金額最多只有兩萬四"},{"start":3056.673,"end":3083.195,"text":"是不是合理因為有經濟艙有好經艙有商務艙我如果願意保比較高的保費那但是我的理賠可以多一點因為後面可能一個班機延誤我可能後面轉成整個每一家飯店還有交通他都不會他都不會賠嘛所以相對的有一些旅客我想保高一點因為我這一趟旅程"},{"start":3084.016,"end":3111.597,"text":"可能就非常貴光是機票可能就十七十八萬包括飯店二三十萬我願意負擔比較高的保費但你現在你最高禮牌就只有兩萬四所以我要提醒的是因為我今天時間不夠所以我覺得現在沒有去做這樣子就是說整套的思考我們就只有要求說我們現在最高禮牌就兩萬四然後而且要從不同兩家去買保單"},{"start":3113.103,"end":3140.979,"text":"我覺得這個並不是辨明的措施就補充兩句話第一個就是說這是針對費用保險定額給付不論你實際損失是多少的方法我們還有十之十複就是說你真的有其他的保單可以來做選擇或者說這個東西市長這樣已經提出非常多的質疑說有人因為這樣而去等於說違反了保險最基本的損害填補這是個費用保險"},{"start":3142.32,"end":3159.327,"text":"我知道 但是你們現在這個損害填平原則損害填補原則損害填平原則去做思考但是你看24000但是如果是一個商務理由如果你有這個需求你可以購買其他可以填補你損失的一些險種"},{"start":3160.487,"end":3184.6,"text":"但是我覺得你們在這個心智當中沒有去做更完整的思考包括我剛才講那個我覺得應該去思考變成說要跟兩家來買然後另外時知時負我還要再買我變成要跟三家買所以我覺得這個旅遊上限是不是合理沒有去思考到遠距或其實在我們評估的時候這些都有評估過啦就是因為很多那個極端或是特殊的個案"},{"start":3185,"end":3198.571,"text":"那跟整個社會成本來做相比的時候保安局跟我建議的時候我有跟委員一樣相同的問題後來他把整個數字告訴我以後我覺得說先暫時應該朝這個方向來走我覺得因為4月1號才剛要上路我覺得有機會你們多辦幾場公聽會聽聽各界的聲音還有比如說有一些商務客他的費用就是很高"},{"start":3209.38,"end":3217.465,"text":"我們就是朝鮮更好的制度我們一定都可以我覺得有一段時間上路之後也應該有一段調整期謝謝主委謝謝李燕秀委員接下來請賴世鮑委員質詢"},{"start":3235.78,"end":3241.653,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請金管會的彭主委請金管會彭主委委員長安"},{"start":3246.759,"end":3274.458,"text":"主委長這個從每一開戰應該是每一開戰之後三月份從三月要算起外資賣超了差不多五千多億 將近六千億股市下跌一千多億 當然今天漲啦但是來看台幣的本破壺之類的中東的戰火還要持續一段時間股市老實講都繼續動盪"},{"start":3276.859,"end":3294.084,"text":"那我們 我跟你談過過去 過去現在台灣的股市幾乎就幾乎是AI概念股在獨領豐收嘛那你有推出一個樸益指數啊我都認為 這個金融會是否可以加把勁啊"},{"start":3295.004,"end":3315.033,"text":"怎麼樣讓說我們的台灣的股市發雖然你說其他國家也如此但是台灣總是台灣嘛我們是不是可以讓稍微平均一下資金大家平均一下不要說都集中在AI概念股啊在這一部分普利指數啊你準備怎麼來推廣呢你要不要告訴我們一下"},{"start":3316.574,"end":3343.027,"text":"這個當時也是非常謝謝委員的指正啦就是比如說我們也看到就是說剛才委員很清楚我們國際股市受到這個全球AI趨勢就會產生一個比較比較著重在某些產業的問題其實台灣有很多很好的產業可能沒有受到資本市場的關注所以在上次委員你指導之下我就請那個交易所指數公司編那個博弈指數把這個納入302檔有沒有在過去這些配息很好"},{"start":3344.067,"end":3357.335,"text":"你會發行ETF嗎?這樣當然指數先出來以後那當然就是具有未來發ETF的這樣一個基礎了嘛當然什麼時候可以發ETF?我請我們交一首"},{"start":3359.116,"end":3387.664,"text":"委員好那基本上跟委員說明第一個我們埔益指數從1月宣布以後我們有六篇新聞稿那今天特別我們在今天的下午我們有邀請的大概有資產管理公司跟四大基金的業者一起我們有辦一個說明會那接下來我們事實上就會陸續的拜訪這些投信公司那事實上我們也拜訪這些投信公司以外呢事實上據我的了解已經有一家的"},{"start":3389.451,"end":3390.719,"text":"是規模很大的他說"},{"start":3391.909,"end":3418.256,"text":"培育指數列為ETF他認為是可以補足他全部的商品的缺口什麼時候他們現在叫我們說開始Customize針對他們的需求開始提供那是什麼時候什麼時間他們預計應該我覺得應該今年他們應該就會有今年下三月你要講12月的事情什麼時候大概什麼時候就是培育指數的ETF最快什麼時候市場看得到"},{"start":3422.797,"end":3442.866,"text":"對 因為跟委員報告因為這個是我們要先提供給客製化的指數給他們他們要去做商品的設計或這樣但是我們從1月我們提出那從你的經驗嘛你告訴我什麼時候可以推出來最快最快最快基本上來講我們希望的是下半年啦因為下半年不會入籍啦"},{"start":3443.987,"end":3450.276,"text":"這個東西 主要是在旁邊害頭 下半年 沒戶期啦我們會盡快的 我們會盡快的這樣子啦 我們就講一個東西啦三個月以內可以吧"},{"start":3459.898,"end":3475.848,"text":"主委 介紹一下 答應一下啊才女的才做得順遂啊這個不是 這是一個市場行為啦就像對的事情好的事情我們會努力不怕苦的吧我們當初朝這個方向努力就應該講我們從1月開始就努力現在我們也在努力"},{"start":3476.969,"end":3491.361,"text":"董事長也報告說他很積極地開這些說明會找這個其實我仔細看了齁這前一陣子啊前一陣子那個這個台積電摔得很慘的時候那個小型獲利不錯的那個股啊活不能跳的"},{"start":3492.322,"end":3495.746,"text":"火不能跳的 所以這個是有賣點的 我跟你報告 你的觀察是正確的像我們這段時間裡面 我說的是3月初的這段時間 是啊 是啊"},{"start":3507.839,"end":3535.996,"text":"大盤整個跌幅大概5點多%我們的埔育指數相對來講的跌幅大概只到2-3%所以這些數據我們都會跟這些投信公司做說明你不方便公佈投信的名字嗎對對對 因為這是屬於商業新聞沒關係你不能公佈但是今天在這裡公開場合這樣子我就希望你們回去告訴他"},{"start":3537.113,"end":3560.589,"text":"立委關心這個題目我們對於整個的健全股市都很有幫助我們的三個月努力目標可以吧我想剛剛委員對的是好事我們會努力來做啦三個月三個月就是上半年不要下半年來沒戶期啦我們盡量來促成六月底以前那個主委你有沒有養龍蝦沒有"},{"start":3563.817,"end":3583.905,"text":"你知道我講什麼吧 知道奧芬克啊 你沒有養龍蝦啦你知道現在有人在養龍蝦 知道吧應該蠻普遍的 普遍現在股市分析師都在用喔因為它實在很方便啊你可以告訴它什麼 它的功能哇 噼哩啪啦的又可以 本來就可以提供檢查但是問題就來了喔它風險也很高你有沒有去了解"},{"start":3589.488,"end":3616.327,"text":"巨商有沒有在用這個我們其實我們最近在我們內部的會議裡面我們也非常關切這個問題所以我們已經請我們相關單位開始開始來針對這個東西的使用還有就是未來應該怎麼做因應現在我可以跟你講一個實際的情況萬一我下指令給這個龍蝦當時軟體了要open call結果我說台積電買一張結果他可以買十張怎麼辦"},{"start":3617.668,"end":3633.519,"text":"這個就是怎麼樣所謂的那個管理的問題因為完全借重一個機器或是一個程式來做的話那常常萬一你只有看到結果才知道中間出錯嘛"},{"start":3634.48,"end":3651.089,"text":"所以這個就是我們一個新的工具我們本來就是好好去理解他到底可能會去年十一月出來可是現在已經很紅了這個到處人家都要養嘛這個我是建議你也去養一下去看一下是是是可以吧對當然可以啊好 那就問你"},{"start":3652.33,"end":3677.529,"text":"什麼時候可以推出金管會 這個是很serious安全手冊 你要不要提一個安全手冊沒有 我們已經有 有關這個資安還有一些內部控管那對於新的事物 我們本來就隨時會檢討這件事情 把它做一個我想金融業是一個高度信賴的行業他必須做 他自己應該自己有這樣的一個內控你要不要推出一個安全手冊養龍蝦的安全手冊 要不要"},{"start":3679.11,"end":3687.458,"text":"要不要啦 我問你要不要如果他已經影響到我們的經營的安全這當然就會列入到我們的未移除模啊 這個要啦 要退出啦"},{"start":3689.945,"end":3711.412,"text":"連對岸他們都推出安全手冊,那你輸了?是不是就安全手冊,但這些管控措施應該都要來做啦不然就安全指導手冊,可以吧?這兩個字我們會發布門多的像AI使用的指引,或其他我們內部的資安的措施什麼時候可以發布?我剛跟委員報告過,我們已經責成內部再處理啦"},{"start":3713.174,"end":3736.982,"text":"什麼時候啦這個我現在沒辦法給缺些時間像這種事情我們能盡快一定是盡快可以吧AI安全手冊可以吧AI我們本來就有了啦怎麼針對AI agent這件事情一些新的使用比如說你要使用這些的軟體的時候應該怎麼樣做內控怎麼樣什麼項目"},{"start":3738.282,"end":3761.008,"text":"這個不是很難吧 這個東西沒有很困難才對啊原則是很容易 但是真的要落入金融業真在實作的時候那就要比較仔細的去研究才知道怎麼做才是真的能夠精準的好不好 這個盡快了我們再看一下那個光電業最近大家這個是最新的消息 兩天以前的"},{"start":3761.988,"end":3784.722,"text":"他講說 這個開發商啊 深陷資金移雲了從誠心集團看漁電共生漁電共生 光電不是只有漁電共生嗎漁電共生這個大跨界整個幾乎每一家銀行都有當那個連帶的主辦銀行北富雲啊 台銀啊 連帶啊等等還有什麼網報銀行都有"},{"start":3787.424,"end":3808.736,"text":"光餘電公升就超過五百億啊現在都面臨到營運的困境那對這些營運來講其實它普選都蠻高的我現在就問金管會怎麼看待這個事情它這個連帶案啊到現在為止沒收刷啦台灣如果說沒收刷你怎麼加強金管"},{"start":3810.606,"end":3828.139,"text":"這個對於某些特定產業他帶放上面一些風險的管控我想在銀行他們在當時就做過風險的評估那該怎麼做他們大概都有一套的作業方式啦所以他沒有問你不會倒就活該是不是不是就是銀行本來就是他是一個你看喔 北部雲統籌組辦新人員餘電共生56.4億"},{"start":3836.594,"end":3854.08,"text":"然後兩天前的誠心集團最大餘電共生也是一樣這個報導者雜誌都這樣出來寫的仔細啊看的是這個樣子啊所以這個你們要加強監管啦"},{"start":3854.776,"end":3877.066,"text":"我想我們在這個地方我們針對個案我們不會去評估啦我會在這邊公開去評論這個個案當然就是說我剛才講說銀行在做一個貸放的時候他本質上剛貸放的時候他必須做過週延的評估分析但是這樣不能確保這所有的貸放都一定是沒有風險所以我們才會刻意風險資本還有一些資本記提壞帳最後一個小問題問一下我就下來"},{"start":3882.949,"end":3895.637,"text":"虛擬資產的立法進度怎麼樣現在是這樣我們行政院已經大概基本審查完畢再做一些行政程序的話這個尊重行政院的程序應該就會送進立法院來審議那大概什麼時候這個就是應該"},{"start":3898.038,"end":3922.569,"text":"我覺得以現在的行政這個我沒辦法代行政院回答但是我希望說應該是能夠盡快的送進所以那時候只要送到我們立法院只要我們這裡通過就可以發行穩定幣是不是應該講它有一個立法歷程這個通過以後我們要等我們穩定幣的執法通過以後實施才可以開始進行差不多半年以後的事情應該至少謝謝"},{"start":3927.374,"end":3930.596,"text":"謝謝賴司保委員 接下來請林黛樺委員質詢好有請主委請清管衛捧主委"},{"start":3945.27,"end":3973.792,"text":"委員長早那這個本席想跟您討論當沖因為當沖這件的期限在明年就到期了所以到底當沖證交稅的減免延期明年截止那今天不管怎麼樣也應該要做個討論到底這個當沖到底是一個強心針還是一個證件的鴉片那這個主委您怎麼看"},{"start":3975.793,"end":3989.201,"text":"這個當沖的一日股東主席啊對不起啊這個為什麼我們財政委員會的這個螢幕我不知道怎麼處理他好嗎我沒有辦法按OK好"},{"start":3992.89,"end":4008.827,"text":"主任你怎麼看台股當中的成交量幾乎居高不下引發社會對股市賭場化的疑慮到底這樣的一日股東的頻繁交易跟強調價值投資的長期持股對產業的集資環境股票穩定度"},{"start":4009.848,"end":4028.97,"text":"股價的穩定度以及企業長遠發展到底是一日股東還是長期持股者這樣這兩個這樣的一個股市的操作方式對於產業集資環境股票的穩定度股價的穩定度跟企業的長遠發展各有什麼實質的貢獻主委您回答一下"},{"start":4029.8,"end":4055.273,"text":"謝謝委員我想這是一個非常非常有趣也重要的問題我想在去年我們討論是不是要延長的時候大家都做過充分的這樣一個正反意見的攻防我想其實一個資本市場或任何一個市場而言通常它必須有多重目的的組合如果完全是長線投資的話它的流量活力不足對於整個市場的效率性就會比較有問題"},{"start":4057.734,"end":4072.786,"text":"但是如果都是投機者的話這個波動過大但你認為台灣的這個市場怎麼樣的一個證券市場對企業發展是比較好在當中跟持股的比例應該各為多少你認為這個是比較正常的"},{"start":4073.443,"end":4087.542,"text":"其實這個比例並沒有說一個所謂的完美的比例我們看幾個很重要的比如說我們今天在整個交易量然後我們想要流動性很好主委如果這個是一個議題我的意思就是說"},{"start":4088.343,"end":4101.677,"text":"當你認為當沖現在的好處是他幾乎佔了我整個證券市場47%相當的高等一下我可以秀一個數字也許你已經掌握已經很清楚了在美國的當沖才佔了15%到20%日本佔30%到40%我們佔了47%"},{"start":4109.244,"end":4132.438,"text":"所以你認為這47%對台灣的這個證券市場跟企業的長久的營運以及它的股價的穩定度是好的嗎那如果你認為好那我覺得等一下的質詢議題也都知道答案是什麼了也都很知道你的立場在明年對於當沖延期的這樣的一個截止日我們也很清楚你的立場"},{"start":4132.918,"end":4157.869,"text":"就不會了嘛就很好啊所以也就會繼續演了那我想一片市場都知道這個穩定性那如果你認為這個不太正常喔其實整個證券市場還是在支持企業嘛還是支持企業的穩定的發展他在一個大眾不定的人當中去集資嘛大家對這個公司有沒有信心嘛我們會去投資他嘛"},{"start":4158.849,"end":4176.488,"text":"這樣才是對的我們股票上基本上還是建立於企業的產業的支持那如果你認為一日當沖這個還是台灣的證券市場的較量還是得固執因為我如果把當沖稍微降低的時候不鼓勵長期投資我的這個經濟市場我的證券市場"},{"start":4178.79,"end":4207.532,"text":"馬上我也說那這樣也很慘所以呢基於並不是把支持企業的永續發展好的這樣的為主軸而先穩定我們的證券市場這也沒有錯喔我也不認為是雖然這跟我們為什麼要有證券市場的原意可能不太一樣但是為了維持國內的這個證券市場那得必須做這個次要的一個決定我覺得也沒問題但是你的立場就很清楚你不可以模糊像剛才你講的那個就是模糊了"},{"start":4208.112,"end":4223.896,"text":"好那你那回現在在台灣的當沖比例啊到底年齡大概落在什麼時候是在哪個年齡層我們有那個數據還是我們請證券交易所林董事長來回答我們有這個統計我想這個統計應該有請證券交易所林董事長謝謝主席委員好"},{"start":4235.724,"end":4247.121,"text":"我們現在進入到當中市場的年齡大概都落在哪一個年齡層我們統計不一定都是年輕的為主"},{"start":4251.226,"end":4274.375,"text":"我了解的是40到60只是我不知道這個證券親自出自你之口你們的統計是不是在這個年齡層也就是他是壯年喔如果我們設定45歲以下叫做青年的話那45歲以上就壯年嘛所以他是表示這個年紀他是存了一些積蓄然後呢他想要再累積財富嘛所以你們是40到60的中壯年嗎"},{"start":4277.554,"end":4283.077,"text":"基本上來講的話我們了解的是工創也是主力那在這個當沖市場的賺賠的狀況是怎麼樣是賺的人多還是賠的人少從人數或者從金額賺的總量是多還是賠的總量是少"},{"start":4298.278,"end":4323.071,"text":"回答一下這個各自多少比例啦大概講個比例大概比例就可以了報告委員當沖基本上來講的話他不只是個人事實上還有一些法人法人專門在做當沖沒關係你只要告訴我賺賠的比例就好了賺賠的比例基本就是從事當中賺的人比較多譬如說賺的我們是會後再提供給你一個"},{"start":4324.031,"end":4338.258,"text":"好 OK如果按照本席所了解的人數來講可能是賺的53%的人是賺47%的人是賠但是獲利者呢大概獲利的虧損的金額卻是比較大的好如果他這個賠的金額還是比較高的話好那這個董事長您先請回那個主委"},{"start":4354.707,"end":4368.791,"text":"那我們來看當中的這個降稅的雙面刃活絡市場我們當中稅率降到百分之零點五後呢零點一五後大幅降低的交易門檻吸引著大量的族群與高頻交易者進入確實讓台股在國際動盪上維持成交量缺點呢就是鼓勵投機嘛"},{"start":4374.352,"end":4394.02,"text":"當中的比例過高達47%的這個證券的市佔率導致怎麼樣這個賺快錢啊 太誘人了本席為什麼會提出這個呢除了明年即將到期之外那我周邊就已經賺快錢賺到連年輕人大學生都投入了"},{"start":4394.56,"end":4417.819,"text":"我認識這個大學生他說好啊這個他自以為他是少年股神所以大完當中結果一波的跌停教訓他他慘賠了40萬現在只能邊延避延後畢業邊打工所以他的誘人誘人到這個年輕的人都投入了那這就警訊了不是40到60歲而已所以你長期持股者支撐台灣的產值的投資人要繳3%的稅"},{"start":4419.941,"end":4432.855,"text":"但是我短線進出的當中課我只要繳0.15%這表示現在政府是金管會是什麼態度鼓勵投資懲罰投 鼓勵投機懲罰投資啊好 我看美國國際稅制 證交稅我就以台灣 美國 日本"},{"start":4439.162,"end":4450.268,"text":"證交稅 台灣對當中是收這個15%的證交稅對一般15個交0.3%的稅那美國是免徵證交稅 日本免徵證交稅然後我們台灣的證件交易所得稅是停徵的美國是合併他的所得可以到10%到37%日本就是一個定率20.3%當中門檻 我們跟日本沒有門檻美國有規定 你的帳戶不管怎麼樣你都要有"},{"start":4467.799,"end":4484.136,"text":"這個2萬5千的美元大概合台幣75萬好 當中的股市當中的佔比我們是達到47%美國15%到20%日本是30%到40%好 我們就以美國股利長期投資做法長期持股者是降稅的"},{"start":4485.197,"end":4504.695,"text":"短期投資者課稅這才是重點長期投資者降稅短期投資者課重稅我就以美國證券交易所得稅的精神我講精神喔那他對於他定義了什麼叫長期持股一年以上叫長期持股只要長期持股的我課的就是低稅率對一般投資人15%高收入的20%甚至還在加增3.8%"},{"start":4510.64,"end":4523.395,"text":"那如果短期投資他也定義一年以下叫做短期投資那我就必須課這個高等的稅10%到37%所以對於美國來講平凡交易的投資人通常面臨較高的稅負"},{"start":4525.598,"end":4547.864,"text":"好那本席呢就是想跟這個金管會討論到底政府是支持投資呢還是投機呢政交稅減免至2027年明年就截止了到底還會不會再延呢租稅公平在哪裡長期持股者的稅率台灣的長期持股的稅率是當沖者的兩倍"},{"start":4549.404,"end":4568.269,"text":"當沖佔市場是百分之比重47這是否變相懲罰投資行為獎勵投機那長期投資人如果你認定長期投資人是應該被鼓勵的你是不是應該要評估要對等的稅制的調整呢好那個主委您要直接直球對決回答這個問題了2027年當沖稅制的延期到期了這個延期的這個這個優惠會被取消"},{"start":4578.231,"end":4593.698,"text":"你們有沒有評估過台股成交量將會怎麼影響有沒有做過政策退場的機制的評估如果你沒有退場那表示說是不是2027年我們又要再次面臨同樣的政治壓力再演一次呢主委請回答"},{"start":4595.755,"end":4617.751,"text":"先跟委員報告一下兩件事一個就是說這個稅的部分不會請簡短回答沒有回答夠的用書面好不好諮詢事件已經過了我想這個是因為稅是財政部主政我們的立場我們會充分表達給他我們再提書面給委員好所以有沒有你支持延期還是不支持延期"},{"start":4618.396,"end":4626.966,"text":"就是說因為這是財政部主政我們要跟他討論那本席建議啟動證券稅制結構改革那針對現行懲罰長線投資補貼短期投資的證券市場的失衡稅制結構進行深度的檢視"},{"start":4638.378,"end":4661.37,"text":"以現在的市場的流動性高度依賴15%的證交稅優惠匯率我本席認為應該是不鼓勵投資行為為出發有穩定市場切入有三個訴求同步進行 我講的是同步這也請你納入你的評估告告第一個 證券交易所得稅維持零第二個 長期投資者證交稅延逸調降"},{"start":4662.831,"end":4683.909,"text":"第三當沖正交稅研議滾動式的調整在2027年正交稅落日倒數的壓力評估建立分級落日制讓市場緩步的適應軟著陸而非恐慌性的退場也請你參考國際主要的市場的機制導正市場的體制朝向"},{"start":4684.549,"end":4702.58,"text":"支撐台灣產業發展的股市方向來轉型以健全這個我們的資本市場的秩序我也希望你這一個月內能夠提出評估報告那你要給財政部那這個評估報告同步也給本委員會可以嗎一個月那個委內建議非常具體我們會來處理好謝謝謝謝再來請郭國文委員質詢"},{"start":4714.439,"end":4717.853,"text":"謝主席 有請彭主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":4722.728,"end":4750.764,"text":"委員長主委好主委我想最近股市非常的熱絡但是還是會有一些陰影最主要陰影就是戰爭的陰影中東戰爭基本上就是陰影之一接下來它是什麼時候結束大家不清楚戰爭的現況會越來越升高還是會趨緩也不了解但是就過往當中面對這個問題其實金管會都有一些作為也就是所謂的限控令限控令在這幾年當中短期在2000年"},{"start":4754.626,"end":4775.615,"text":"2020、2022、2025各有幾次那方法不相同一個是全面淨空有條件淨空或隔日淨空或者是融資融券的部分的一個限額等等有這種方法那本席想請教你的部分因為每次的這個跌幅雖然現在股市數字非常的高但是跌幅也不小"},{"start":4776.295,"end":4796.865,"text":"像之前的跌幅有高達9.69但是也只有0.81那另外還有5.82這一次的跌幅本息有算過大概有4.43之多那我不曉得在這次發生的時候主委你有沒有去準備說是不是要準備推出再一次的限空的可能有沒有考慮到這個問題"},{"start":4798.697,"end":4819.296,"text":"我想剛剛委員非常清楚從過去台灣這個股市過去幾十年來面臨到非常非常多的這些所謂的國際重大利空消息的衝擊那其實過去也陸續推出各種的比如說所謂的市場成為穩定措施那實際上我們在過去"},{"start":4820.197,"end":4832.823,"text":"也針對這些當時事實情況推出蠻多的這些的做法當時主要目的是因為當我們市場出現非理性的下跌的時候我可以理解但是重點是這一次主委你的心裡頭想像準備是怎麼樣"},{"start":4836.044,"end":4860.09,"text":"我想要了解的是這個部分我來回答委員的這個問題其實上就一個市場監理者而言對相關的情境的模擬以及應對方法當然有他一套的做法有準備啦有準備萬一我們市場面對不確定是我們每天的日常這些東西我們都是我們日常作業的一部分你會不會因為說現在已經三萬多點了不需要"},{"start":4861.75,"end":4887.095,"text":"現狀還OK有漲有跌所以說你就按兵不動除非有進一步的劇烈的動盪才有考慮是不是我們看的不是一個定態的數字我們是看那個狀況剛才委員講了就是說其實資本市場最後一定是落底在基本面不管做任何措施到最後還是要反映的基本面所以這些就是要做一個比如說我們尊重市場機制當市場機制無法發揮的時候比如我們舉韓國的熔斷機制為例"},{"start":4889.875,"end":4909.493,"text":"我如果說就基本面當然你不用去處理啦那問題是在那個市場面的因素所造成的可能恐慌性的賣壓才是金管會要扮演的角色嘛這就有可能造成恐慌性的賣壓的可能性這是其一種方式另外一種可能性說除了淨空令之外還沒有其他的行政作為來取代淨空令的可能性有沒有沒有"},{"start":4911.866,"end":4935.296,"text":"我想說其實一個市場最重要的是效率性效率性就是說我們讓市場的價格充分反映所有的訊息這很重要所以剛剛講說我們除了比如說剛剛講的委員講的限空令本身也是說當我一方比如說賣方的訊息跟買方訊息無法充分在市場反映的時候我們必須給予時間所以這時候才有這些作為我想"},{"start":4936.176,"end":4954.458,"text":"達到這個效率性資訊揭露也是其中一個非常非常重要的資訊揭露當然是另外一件事情主委其實大家是對金管會的期待還有對政府的期待無非是國安基金融之外就是禁空令的處理所以你的角色非常的重要也就是說你隨時有在挖取這種狀況也準備說必要的時候也採取禁空令就是了對不對"},{"start":4955.599,"end":4976.651,"text":"我們會在40年的時候我也期待說有其他多元的做法那另外一個部分呢那個主委我就教你一年的部分你知道最近台積電很多權值股紛紛破千甚至有破萬的那股市成長非常的快那另外一種市場叫零股市場非常的快零股市場在2024年的時候成長的這個比例是137%"},{"start":4982.074,"end":4998.84,"text":"在去年的部分成長比例是41%交易的金額呢居然高達86.71億這是平均喔然後以年齡層的話的話光40歲以下占交易戶就占了48.86也就是將近五成很多年輕人40歲以下"},{"start":5000.541,"end":5019.544,"text":"那以最近3月9號,剛剛一樣是中東戰爭的因素,台股下跌了1495點的時候,台積電零股的交易量居然暴增到單日1461萬股的紀錄。也就是說這個零股市場的活躍性超想像。"},{"start":5020.385,"end":5041.38,"text":"就這個部分單日台積電的成交就275.9億之多可以說是領股成交的最大紀錄這領股市場越來越大那我們那個股票權值股越來越多的情況底下本席要就較於你的部分是不是應該開始思考如何保障這個領股的投資者的這個交易權益"},{"start":5042.641,"end":5071.981,"text":"舉其例來說每次零股湊合的時候第一盤的時候是在開盤10分鐘這裡頭會造成一個Lake就是說呢零股交易10分鐘才湊合那麼基本上呢它有可能錯失了那個時機然後延後10分鐘也可以累積較多的買賣的委託單但是避免價格因為量端換出來大幅浮動這個部分是不是可以把零股跟整股的交易市場把它一併化的可能那我就交給主委"},{"start":5073.823,"end":5088.839,"text":"剛剛委員講的我是非常同意第一個就是說我們在資本市場的管理很重要就是要公平對待每個交易人如果他條件相同的話不應該受到不同的對待這是我們努力的方向只是我們過去在交易"},{"start":5089.72,"end":5111.177,"text":"有它一定的歷史因素還有就是習慣還有就是我們轉換制度的成本我想這部分呢我們會朝向一個國際級的資本市場來看的話這些東西我們都會來努力應該把差異性區劃掉嘛你只要是市場交易者都應該得到相對應你的所以技術上應該沒有問題吧林董事長在後面啊董事長應該沒問題吧"},{"start":5116.116,"end":5132.314,"text":"領股交易的部分剛才委員提的就是說整股跟領股之間我們的時間差那基本上來講的話我們整股讓它先出來的原因是因為領股本身來講它有一個參考價"},{"start":5134.076,"end":5158.75,"text":"所以對這個時間差 事實上來講 某種程度來講前一天就有參考價了啦而且美股開盤就有參考價了 ADR就有參考價了所以他基本上來講他就迫不及待要去交易啊 你還差那個十分鐘那個董事長你去研究一下啦 很多參考價啦不一定是開盤的時候就有參考價而且還有權值股越來越多的情況底下 他還有其他的可能性呢譬如講有沒有信用交易的可能"},{"start":5160.561,"end":5176.02,"text":"為什麼整股可以信用交易為什麼零股不能信用交易而且它交易的金額也不小啊因為它的可能絕對的金額會大過於其他的整股捲紙股大一點我買個100股可能會大過其他的股票啊那為什麼其他的股票可以信用交易這個不能信用交易"},{"start":5176.957,"end":5193.322,"text":"董事長 可以吧我們研究一下 跟主委研究一下甚至還有現階段當中的問題就是說如何將領股跟整股的這種差異性去化掉 這很重要同樣的投資人 同樣的馬股票大張和小張的差那麼多"},{"start":5195.764,"end":5201.949,"text":"跟委員報告對於現在我們有那麼多的零股的集體的參與我們絕對會重視他基本上的協議這個部分也謝謝委員給我們的一些建議本席慎重提醒一個月給本席一個報告好不好可以"},{"start":5210.956,"end":5236.11,"text":"再如何把它差異性驅化掉保障他們的權益嘛就像主委剛剛開始講的嘛通常是投資人都應該被保護嘛對不對主委這個方向可以考慮嗎對就是我們是一個我沒有見過國際級公平的市場跟透明的市場這部分我們覺得是一個好的方向我就會請那個教授謝謝主委的肯定啦是好的方向主委另外一個部分我還是要就教於您的部分雖然剛剛有其他委員有提過有關於這個"},{"start":5238.511,"end":5257.026,"text":"這個巴黎產險撐不住近五萬的保單要什麼時候退場這個第一個如果這個保單的權益實現還沒有消失的情況底下這個巴黎產險公司他要怎麼去面對保護的權益這個主委你要跟這些保護喊話一下"},{"start":5257.887,"end":5274.283,"text":"二來他沒有擔保三來員工的權益怎麼保障這都很現實的問題啊因為我只有看到你們很震驚啊但是不曉得後續的處理方法是什麼那是媒體講很震驚其實我們早就知道這個訊息你不震驚喔不會不會 這很正常"},{"start":5276.486,"end":5294.743,"text":"其實市場本來就有進有退為什麼所有法律都有一個退場機制本來就有這個退場機制在過去他不是第一家離開台灣也不是第一家進入台灣他有的程序都非常非常明確我想他非常清楚也都密切跟我們保險局在溝通那跟公衛權益有什麼保障一個一個問你"},{"start":5296.204,"end":5312.599,"text":"我們有勞基法就按照這所有的法律來進行盡量不要Lay off盡量把他轉任保有他的工作權比那個勞基法勞基法那是不得不的做法其實我們在他提出的時候我們就已經跟他掩體各式各樣的員工的權益要保障第二個是保護的權益"},{"start":5314.641,"end":5331.46,"text":"對 那個都沒有問題那實際上他比如說我們任何一個這個特許事業他做資本還有保證金一定要你所有結清這個東西我們才會做這個所以不會有問題這個沒有問題那將來有沒有可能還會有類似的事件產生短期內"},{"start":5332,"end":5360.608,"text":"沒有我們希望說台灣是一個能夠自由進出因為我們對外資的保險公司完全沒有差別的待遇所以我們也歡迎他們來當然他們自己經營決策我們也跟他溝通過我們也尊重他就像主委所講的外資的保險公司來自本土著地其實有相對他的困難度也相對有這個風險也請主委特別注意一下但是也有他的優勢嘛所以我們歡迎台灣還是非常友善而且對所有的外資我們都會我是擔心有類似的事件產生的時候啦好不好"},{"start":5360.908,"end":5365.81,"text":"是好謝謝主委謝謝謝謝主席謝謝郭委員再來請劉書斌委員質詢好謝謝主席現在有請彭主委請金管會彭主委委員好好主委好"},{"start":5389.793,"end":5410.88,"text":"我們看到呢銀行的跨行轉帳手續費呢一筆一千元以上呢就是有跨行的手續費是十五元那價格他已經有十二年沒漲了那你今年年初的時候呢也說呢要研議呢要會來去調價那現在進度如何可以報告嗎好那我請銀行局局長跟您簡單回覆一下"},{"start":5412.165,"end":5439.225,"text":"跟委員報告上一次那個黃委員有質詢這個議題我們已經有請那個銀行公會跟財經公司還有央行我們會共同來研商那因為在最近的一次先前已經有決定說因為我們台灣的跨行手續費相對來講各區域國家來講已經是非常低的那所以在大概在兩三年前已經決定不會再往下調降那但是這次委員有再提出相關質詢所以我們會再做相關的評估"},{"start":5439.845,"end":5460.166,"text":"那時間上面一個月可以再把評估報告出來 研議的結果出來嗎因為你這樣已經從今年的1月7號到現在已經超過兩個月了而且我們知道過去的時候就算是沒有這樣的時間性可是它都是用現在已經都變成自動化的一種的作業程序那人工的成本是大幅的降低那財經公司結算作業應該是都可以完成對這一點"},{"start":5462.308,"end":5472.393,"text":"剛剛我們說我們請銀行公會他們以前過去針對這個東西已經做過研議而且我們相較其他也是不是一個也是比較低的水準我們請他研議我們請他去跟他確認一下是要多久報告可以出來再跟委員說明"},{"start":5477.995,"end":5481.378,"text":"OK 好 希望我們民眾黨會持續在追蹤這個議題那我們現在繼續往下看有一個金管會很重要的一個政策目標是在亞洲資產管理中心那我們看到說這也是戴清德政府的一個主要政見因為台灣"},{"start":5496.673,"end":5504.765,"text":"喊了30年了過去12人任的這個金融金管會主委都沒有做那您卻做了而且喊出了這個第一屆的目標是說要兩年有感也看到說現在已經有超過20家銀行跟超過兩兆元的資產規模已經進駐到這個高雄"},{"start":5513.117,"end":5516.139,"text":"那這邊就先讓你說到做到但是我們也看到有幾個問題第一個問題是說亞資中心在兩年內創造了兩兆元的資產規模但是想要問你說這兩兆元當中有多少是屬於海外的資金形式進來的"},{"start":5530.308,"end":5548.859,"text":"這裡稍微報告一下我們這個過去推動這一年半應該是5.7兆那個2兆是因為我們私人銀行業務現在成長到2兆2000億左右那剛剛提到那只是私人銀行業務那高雄專區只是我們16項計畫其中之一那這部分剛剛講說那5.7兆裡面呢因為我們有"},{"start":5551.6,"end":5569.5,"text":"這個所謂的AUM就是它資產管理規模有各式各樣的來源那我們到現在是沒有去細分說這是資金是從國內或國外當然我們可以看得出來這大部分都是以國人的財富為主那我們會去了解一下如果具體的數據再給委員好 那一個禮拜可以嗎"},{"start":5570.306,"end":5587.841,"text":"我們去盤查一下說有這個統計我們可以很快可以快盡快就出現這部分是非常重要因為你們部分的這個目標是在說要是要留財引資這部分就希望能夠落實第二部分你剛才也講說在你們的幾項計畫當中其實高雄市是一個部分對 其實我們地方專區的一個專案"},{"start":5588.942,"end":5608.088,"text":"對那有沒有考慮到說現在的下一個落腳的縣市我們很多的我們很多的場合我們都說因為這是要地方政府來協力地方政府願意他提出他們的優惠措施來吸引所以他幾個前提一個地方政府要有意願要有能力再來就是我們的廠商要有意願"},{"start":5609.308,"end":5634.145,"text":"要過去我們政策再去配合這件事情所以我們也歡迎其實在這次那個卓院長在他施政報告也講說我們希望今晚會來複製高雄經驗到全台去那我們也歡迎我們各地方政府如果能夠提出你們的誘因能夠具有招商的條件我們會來政策來配合好那這樣子現在最目前為止是其他像新北跟台北沒有提出來這個需求是嗎目前沒有"},{"start":5634.545,"end":5641.328,"text":"好 這樣了解 當然希望其他的縣市也能夠知道說目前政府有這樣的計畫那我們繼續往下看就是在於說因為現在包括的是台灣的一個狀況大家有這個跟新加坡跟香港他們其實都有這樣的一個亞洲資產的這樣的管理的一個作為那包括的 還是我們看到說台海關係也都不穩定"},{"start":5658.236,"end":5674.25,"text":"剛剛說的香港跟新加坡的稅率就比我們低外匯管制也是比較寬鬆那台海的穩定度當然也是一個問題還現在包括了美伊衝突的爆發等等那這樣的情況實際上對於我們目前的亞洲資產中心的目標年度目標達成會不會受到一些影響"},{"start":5675.07,"end":5700.524,"text":"其實跟委員報告我們其實我們在做這個計畫我們有仔細盤點過像委員提到比如說稅的問題其實我們看到就全世界有很多的金融中心他稅其實非常的高他也不會就無損於他這個稅只是其中一個要件在地緣政治的問題當然很多人在說其實台灣從1949年開始就一直都有這個問題其實我們從事實告訴我們就我們在推動這一年半我們就按照我們的計畫已經增加了"},{"start":5701.884,"end":5726.193,"text":"就是五兆其實某種程度來看其實我覺得我們是要吸引各種不同層次的這個資產進到台灣來做管理我想白資金有多重面向在乎地緣政治人他可能會到他自己認為的那很多地方他不考慮這個或是他沒那麼看重其實這樣就可以過來所以我覺得我們在做這些事情不能因為有這個而不推但是我們的吸引力在哪裡"},{"start":5726.793,"end":5744.386,"text":"而其實剛才講說比如說我跟委員報告一下就是我們單單就幾個數字比如說台灣的我們的銀行的這個存款對不對我們的國人的存款非常多而且每年的差額儲蓄這麼的高就是說我們的整個財富跟投資動能高資產客戶非常的多"},{"start":5745.126,"end":5760.619,"text":"所以你們就這個目標來講 你覺得我們已經吸到我們現在在屬於台灣人的資產但是本來在國外 現在進來的比例是多少所以我們想說 今天一個是有步驟性的如果連本國的資產都不願意留台灣談怎麼樣從外外但是現在這個兩年之內 你們達到這個目標多少我們本來是預計就是說 兩年的時間希望能夠增加4兆但是我們從現在統計已經來到了大概5.7兆左右"},{"start":5772.029,"end":5793.857,"text":"所以我覺得這件事情就是代表說其實台灣在過去他覺得假設台灣能夠提供這個服務的話我覺得我們這些資金就願意留在台灣給台灣的這個市場一個機會好你現在目標是達到了你這樣應該是這樣子吧當然只是初步的目標初步目標達到了好或是你也許你的當初目標定的比較低啦如果說我們當初有大概15兆的這樣子的一個但是我們目標"},{"start":5796.758,"end":5818.076,"text":"而限制我們的做法所以我們也希望說其實我們給了一個非常非常難挑戰的目標就希望六年之內能夠翻倍好 我們就繼續的期待著繼續我們來看一下這個意見當中是說專人的專戶他們也是在今年上路在亞洲資產中心客戶需要到高雄開會可是影響很不便那如何化解"},{"start":5818.676,"end":5846.637,"text":"我想這個問題有點小複雜我請銀行局局長簡單跟委員說明各位委員報告那個要到專區去開專戶這個部分我們有跟銀行會商過三次那銀行也覺得說必須要這樣做最主要的一個考量是為了要防度洗錢的一個可能性那第二個部分呢專區一定要由專人來這個提供相關的服務才能夠避免相關的這個銷售商的一個糾紛所以這個是我們跟銀行有達成共識"},{"start":5848.243,"end":5868.183,"text":"現在是因為主要還是一個試辦階段國人對於金融業的穩定跟安全有高度的期待我們希望在一個風險可控的範圍之內來穩步推進所以我們也不冒進所以剛剛講說我們寧可把它做穩做好以後再來擴大所以我們對這個東西一開始我們會有序的去管理"},{"start":5869.244,"end":5886.342,"text":"好 那我們希望就是這也可以看得出來整個的目標應該是還是以西周台灣國人的資金我們是希望就是說流財引資都要好 那希望另外在外資的引進上面也能夠加強這部分才是真正亞洲資產管理中心"},{"start":5888.124,"end":5892.046,"text":"好 謝謝 我們繼續往下看有一個議題是包括的是強制險的一個預告金管會已經在二月份已經預告了說準備把這個保額拉到大概三百萬元但是它目前的規劃是保費不漲這個保費不漲的話那是誰要來吸收要增加從兩百萬到三百萬的這樣子的如果說的一個賠償額呢"},{"start":5912.253,"end":5934.264,"text":"是 跟委員報告因為強制險是個強制推的強制等於說你只要有車的人就必須要投保所以我們對於調費都非常的謹慎因為這增加民眾的生活負擔所以我們在過去呢要因為這個險的實施是所謂無盈無虧就等於說過去如果說他損率比較好有結餘的時候他要積存為一個特別準備"},{"start":5935.345,"end":5964.261,"text":"不能夠列入乘坐產險公司的這個損益裡面所以我們就看了其實這個是過去幾年因為我們的道路的死亡改善其實有明顯的改善所以再來就是我們的準備金累積到一定程度以後我們覺得有這個能力在不漲保費的情況下調高但是未來我們持續假設能夠下降這個死亡率的話那其實上這個空間來這並不是從哪裡來就是從過去因為我們整個損利調好以後產生了一個"},{"start":5964.761,"end":5972.124,"text":"所以現在是預告期間嘛 那這個時候 預計什麼時候會升?7月1號7月1號 那我們就去看他這部分可是你們 現在還包括一個問題因為實質上面 在整個法院判理賠的這個總額當中其實一般的A1事故的平均是411萬死亡受害者是371萬 那失能者更是達到330萬你們現在拿到300萬 其實是不太夠的"},{"start":5989.83,"end":6015.573,"text":"那這邊呢是不是有一個考慮到說呢應該再去加強它的一個這個裁員的部分尤其是要加重到這個加重危險累犯的駕駛他們的保費這樣的金額或是把第三責任錢把它放進去裡面這部分有沒有意見納入到你們的考量當中沒有我想上次行政院召開道安會報的時候已經指示說高風險高保費是未來制度調整的趨勢"},{"start":6016.641,"end":6022.184,"text":"所以這是要考慮解決的你假如是高風險的駕駛人未來的話你就必須要承擔高的費率這是一個研議的方向我想這應該是很明確好 一個最好最先後面一個問題就是說那因為過去的這個調漲調整的是在13年前那這次也在預告在調整的時間是不是有考慮到要把這個CPI跟基本工資的漲幅也把它納進去彈性的調漲而不是要在礦日廢時的"},{"start":6040.875,"end":6068.732,"text":"沒有反應到時事各位委員這是一個保險不是一個比如社會福利事項沒辦法按照這樣來做這是因為有保費民眾要負擔的這個就是保額提高就成本增加成本增加民眾就要增加保費我想這部分我們會盡量的就以不增加民眾的這個負擔我們積極面去改善風險降低死亡率讓這個東西把保費提高這才是這個險最重要的目的不是為了賠是希望最好不要賠"},{"start":6070.468,"end":6071.608,"text":"主席 各位出列席官員 大家好"},{"start":6099.562,"end":6125.634,"text":"最後請彭金榮彭主委請金管會彭主委等一下請OTC的董事長請OTC簡立中董事長委員長主委你好你運氣都不錯你來了以後台灣股市強強困川普說韓美國的股市要上看10萬點台灣有沒有機會突破5萬點大關"},{"start":6129.976,"end":6153.323,"text":"這我還是一樣那句話回答我們金管會身為資本市場主管機關不會對未來做任何的預測一樣一句話我上次問的時候是一萬點會突破兩萬點你也講這句話那會不會到了五萬點你還是講這句話我想我答案應該都是一樣都一樣我們看到台灣的股市蓬勃的發展現在是不是已經進入了牛市"},{"start":6155.611,"end":6168.844,"text":"這個答案也應該是一樣是怎麼樣一樣我們不會對現在市場對未來景氣的判斷做任何的評論監管會最重要的就是營造一個好的氛圍"},{"start":6170.865,"end":6187.917,"text":"國際的資金源源不斷的滾滾而來那你有沒有大概統計一下現在每天的日均量加起來大概多少現在大概是8600在8500億左右8000多億那如果再加OTC還有加上新櫃創新創櫃買賣整個加起來有多少應該應該這個是"},{"start":6193.888,"end":6215.379,"text":"對 在九千八百差不多一兆快到一兆快到一兆啦那在這個比例上是不是有點需要怎麼樣來加強的因為自然能的部分現在開戶數有多少現在大概一千三百萬吧對 經常在使用的戶頭有多少"},{"start":6217.328,"end":6240.428,"text":"這可能不知道,七八百萬戶啦海環都一直慢慢在增加小白也都加進來了我們看到每一波都有不一樣的故事從大概前年航海王後來就是台積電護國神山再來就是現在AI所有的周邊的這些公司什麼時候會輪到金融跟船廠"},{"start":6241.752,"end":6260.519,"text":"我想剛才就是一樣假設你真的被市場肯定未來具有成長的前景那市場效率性高的話自然會看見其實這個結構上跟展現出來的這個數據是有它的內容不一樣的內涵現在外資的持股比例有多少現在大概是48"},{"start":6263.879,"end":6290.06,"text":"48每天當沖的量大概占一兆的裡面大概占百分之多少剛剛前委員提在47%49%所以你一兆多的大概有45、48%全部都是靠當沖那對 你覺得這樣的一個情況再加上外資來的部分那個QP還有還有什麼我們外資來的還有什麼"},{"start":6292.443,"end":6297.587,"text":"菲尼菲尼的量有多少?外資的交易嗎?對剛同仁講三十幾趴不然請那個張振山好了張局長那還是請因為我們現在是那個現在換人了是不是?對張振山是這樣我剛遇到他我說你怎麼落跑"},{"start":6318.014,"end":6336.551,"text":"他在的時候,他好比證券市場的護國神山我看他那穩穩穩穩的上,我說啊這下算嘛,你那兇兇就滅了轉任到別的地方,不曉得現在新任的可不可以撐得住那個,報告委員齁,我們現在的成交量大概35%"},{"start":6339.934,"end":6360.093,"text":"再補充一下市場交易所當沖的量平均來講的話也是36%沒有到47%所以基本上交易所的話當沖的部分沒有高到40%我們看到現在台灣的台股這樣走走走甚至有的股價"},{"start":6361.502,"end":6388.017,"text":"主委股價已經漲到一萬多塊我的天啊這個在十年二十年三十年前完全想像不到一張股票股價一萬多塊主委你有沒有在買股票沒有你沒有買股票對我們不能買股票哇啊你都沒有買股票怎麼樣融入其中然後掌握其中的奧妙我們這樣才客觀"},{"start":6389.27,"end":6417.47,"text":"這樣客觀喔那你客觀要知道裡面更多的情況因為現在大概有百分之六十以上傳產的部分有的甚至低於二十年的平均價格這是有一點就是支券也好有一些外資來也好就變成這個市場都有一些不同的力道存在外資來他會去買傳產嗎"},{"start":6419.556,"end":6425.089,"text":"當然也有啊 只是比重上沒那麼高比例很低很低啦那我們請簡董好了"},{"start":6427.958,"end":6449.207,"text":"那剛剛跟委員更正一下因為剛剛有委員質詢那個當沖他的資料47剛剛我們董事長已經更正了對的也差不多啦他一直在成長當沖的量一直在成長那請教一下那個檢總市長面對這樣的情況外資來買本土的這些股票大概比例占多少"},{"start":6450.407,"end":6459.272,"text":"假設100億來說買傳產會有多少跟委員報告貴買中心外資這個交易的比重大概25%左右如果買傳產的勒"},{"start":6465.652,"end":6483.124,"text":"其實其實委員我可不可以說明一下其實傳產跟所謂現在我們AI或者是相關的這些產業其實我們現在並不是這樣分因為我們一直在講供應鏈供應鏈的觀念現在有很多的"},{"start":6484.325,"end":6510.039,"text":"我們所定義的譬如說做材料的譬如說做機械的其實它跟這一個AI的供應鏈或半導體供應鏈他們都有幫它做設計這個材料或者設計這個機械所以他們會進入它的供應鏈裡面所以其實我想解釋的是說這整個的供應鏈其實是很比較龐大的不單純去分這個是不是傳產"},{"start":6512.52,"end":6531.489,"text":"他如果說他做的東西是很很舊的很傳統以前的東西都沒有新的研發或發展的話那他可能就會歸類說比較沒有辦法去沾到這一個整個趨勢的這個我理解了因為你整個展開來也許他有金屬加工部分他有一些螺絲等等"},{"start":6532.549,"end":6556.484,"text":"那我現在是講的意思是說當大家全部重心都放在未來的一個趨勢譬如說我們現在講未來的趨勢那主委你告訴我們未來的趨勢是什麼對我想說未來的趨勢其實我剛剛講我是一個假設我已經王主委你是教授啦所以不知道未來趨勢大概就是低軌衛星嘛台灣未來的發展"},{"start":6557.881,"end":6584.075,"text":"就是這個人型機器人嘛另外一個就是無人機嘛這個都是大家通通都知道的一般都知道的事情所以我現在的意思說我們很多的重心不斷的放在Focus在這幾個部分而忘記了很多基本的傳產譬如說銀件銀件股來說有很多都是很認真很辛苦踏實在做"},{"start":6584.835,"end":6599.016,"text":"可是一般台灣給的本益比就非常低啊那我請教前董事長好了前董就半導體來說台灣給的本益比是多少"},{"start":6600.997,"end":6622.274,"text":"現在半導體因為我們看個別公司的情況不一樣有的可能有到比如說50的這個ratio台灣嗎?對,那我們整個平均...好,那大陸給多少?我們整個平均是30幾35左右吧對,好,那PCB的部分台灣給多少?"},{"start":6623.981,"end":6652.74,"text":"PCB最近有一些PCB其實本益比還不錯因為他PCB他有做ABF載板有一些都是直接是AI必須要用到有些很高端現在他的技術層級非常高所以我覺得每一家產業或公司他的這個PE Ratio或他產生的PE他的這個是跟他的研發跟他製造的這個項目有沒有走到"},{"start":6653.881,"end":6662.286,"text":"我們有很多的台商因為在台灣的人見度不高獲得台灣青睞的程度不高很多跑大陸去為什麼 主委您知道為什麼嗎"},{"start":6668.427,"end":6688.907,"text":"因為很多這些過去的台商朋友在台灣要借錢借不到要給予金融的支持都不要全部有幾千都跑到大陸去了沒有想應該這個情況如果是個案的話應該是就是個案一夜之秋啊我可以累積很多個案改天給主委知道一下好我們再繞回來時間關係喔"},{"start":6690.424,"end":6712.724,"text":"那台灣現在發展的話我很怕就是有很多失衡或者有一些基本的傳產大家看不到沒有關心台灣有的百工百業我們要照顧更多的一般中小企業這是很重要的主委對不對當然我想政府職責應該照顧每一個行業每一個國人好 再來問的一個就是說"},{"start":6714.198,"end":6732.675,"text":"我們現在乘以下每天均量一兆請問政府收的稅收多少那個用那稅率一成大概政交稅千分之一點四二五兩邊來回千分之三一天大概二十四億因為扣掉當沖"},{"start":6735.658,"end":6757.735,"text":"最後一個不好意思主席站起來最後一個題目就是台灣的證券加稅一天大概抽24億一年兩百四五十個營業日下來抽了五六千億主委會不會太重這是國家財政稅收的問題我不方便說如果跟國際接軌"},{"start":6760.191,"end":6788.962,"text":"證交稅 適當的往下調升到千分之一你覺得有沒有機會我們國際的稅制比台灣有它很獨特的地方因為我們沒有課證券交易所得稅嘛那些國家有課這個他就不課交易稅這個有各種不同的歷史因素這可能沒辦法就這樣簡單的所以現在台灣的股民溫水煮青蛙每天一兆一兆滾下去一年就是被政府抽了五六千億這個非常的不公平"},{"start":6789.802,"end":6817.606,"text":"稅制的部分我們免三兆多這些股民就被收了大概六千億的稅十年就多少就六兆所以這個應該如果持續那麼大量的話證交稅是應該要被檢討是應該要調降的不能一直針對這些股民不斷地抽他們的血抽他們的稅好不好"},{"start":6818.496,"end":6823.277,"text":"請主委用書面回答再來請代會員委員質詢好謝謝主席那個請金管會主委那個樓民財委員要請總統了所以這個是總統的政策維好好謝謝"},{"start":6850.256,"end":6853.755,"text":"等一下 主委等一下那個螢幕沒有資料"},{"start":6877.352,"end":6884.123,"text":"先預告一下等一下大會委員會諮詢完之後讓我諮詢我諮詢完之後休息五分鐘讓大家上廁所"},{"start":6890.389,"end":6905.001,"text":"我想虛擬資產已經是成為全球金融化的不可忽視的一環其實我們的監理基本架構也正在成型但是面對這一項新興且高度依賴技術的產業"},{"start":6908.524,"end":6929.746,"text":"本席認為金管會目前的一個草案其實還有很多地方需要釐清還有很多盲點不過就是說等了喊了一年也等了一年那虛擬資產專法是不是還在研定就從去年的3月25號一直到現在甚至就是說"},{"start":6930.467,"end":6959.084,"text":"我們匯豬委莊匯豬委在上一次在12月25號也跟大家宣布這個是一個國際性的一個論壇他公開的表示說虛擬資產的那個服務法預估最快最快在明年就是等於是今年的上半年會執行了可是這樣看起來就是說這個依告草案一年過去了那驗版的草案現在也還沒有經過立法院的那個一讀"},{"start":6960.225,"end":6983.645,"text":"那主委你看我讓你有機會講一講到底就是說什麼時候會送到行政院什麼時候會送到立法院那你是不是試著就是說把這一個時程跟大家做一個報告好 謝謝委員我想說我們在前年的時候就答應我們要立專法我們當初就立定的是明年的就是去年的六月底以前送進行政院"},{"start":6984.405,"end":6999.211,"text":"對 那我們那個剛剛委員提到三月那是因為我們內部的這些草案要公告給外界收集意見那我們做完了只是行政單位做完草案我們確實在6月27號已經送進了行政院並沒有任何的延誤那接下來呢 政委就開始進行"},{"start":7000.532,"end":7018.926,"text":"多次的開會那最近已經開會已經討論完畢剛剛那個我們副主委說最快是預估說假設是在比如說當時在下個就是前一個會期如果通過的話能夠在這個會期就送進行政院"},{"start":7020.367,"end":7042.406,"text":"送進立法院的話那當然這個會期最快如果我們通過的話就有可能我們的虛擬資產服務法在今年就會通過然後接下來在我們的執法通過以後就可以實施我想這整個過程應該都按照這樣一個順序來做我想行政院那邊已經審查完畢按照程序應該預期行政院已經審查完畢了"},{"start":7044.027,"end":7061.463,"text":"對 什麼時候會送出來那這樣我沒辦法代行政院回答不過按照程序是審查完畢以後會經過行政院院會通過以後就會送進立法院好 主委我再提醒你在野黨他的兩套虛擬資產法制上基本上他已經超車了金管會你認為這樣是合理的嗎"},{"start":7063.325,"end":7088.911,"text":"我想市場上比如說我們在大院各個委員之間都有各自的理想的條文我想這都尊重但是未來還是要落地可行真的符合我們台灣真正的不管是市場的現在的現況以及我們監理上面的這個能量還在就是未來的發展我想我們可以再透過在立法院的討論的時候能夠深入的討論各種版本"},{"start":7089.651,"end":7105.727,"text":"那我們就再充分的討論那就是在3月16號台哥大已經跟萬事達宣布了他們要合作那甚至把那個加密幣導入了日常的一個支付這個已經是從投資的一個工具走向日常生活裡頭"},{"start":7106.488,"end":7117.515,"text":"那主委你怎麼看呢就是這些虛擬資產專業法跟信用卡卡上在推動日常的一個支付上面他有足夠的法規來規範嗎我們有足夠的法規來規範他們嗎其實這個在我們一些把過去把穩定幣"},{"start":7125,"end":7139.609,"text":"或是一些虛擬資產搭配在信用卡上做支付這個部分其實已經在國際上已經很普遍我想這個如果在法規上基本上它還是一個信用卡支付它是一個信用卡支付所以說主委你也樂觀其成"},{"start":7141.07,"end":7161.886,"text":"那如果說我們在這個虛擬法規上頭的話我們台灣不是發展最快的啦那就是說已經就是說外地的廠商在本地已經是落地了那我們也有我們自己的法規可以管他們的話我們是不是應該就是說開大門走大路我們就去歡迎他們咧"},{"start":7162.826,"end":7187.098,"text":"其實我們剛剛提到所謂落地我想應該這是法規認知上面是有一點點差異的還是有差異比如說他們今天去綁一個信用卡比如說我們市場上聽到的U卡那其實上某種程度他拿的就是一家VISA或是MESSA卡這部分他在支付店家他也是收他當地的幣別只是他結算背後可能他付的時候可是起碼他就是受我們的法規受我們的法規管理啦這是好事啊"},{"start":7187.838,"end":7207.824,"text":"對 就是說其實應該講就是說我們現在所落地剛剛提到假設外國的這些的虛擬資產服務業者在台灣對我們一般民眾做無差別的這樣的一個業務的話他必須經過我們的特許我想這個全世界都是一樣經管會的特許那我們接著是不是主委我們再來講這個虛擬資產他所依賴的這個區塊鏈"},{"start":7211.685,"end":7233.665,"text":"它本身不是金管會監管的一個範圍內那你怎麼樣來就是說監督呢因為區塊鏈就沒有納入你的監管範圍那會形成你監管的一個落差那你有沒有更好的方式還是說尋求有技術的合作廠商的時候必要的時候是不是跟外國廠商一起合作呢"},{"start":7234.525,"end":7263.024,"text":"對 我想這部分有沒有排斥當然我們在監理機關我們扮演的角色跟一般業者是不太一樣剛才講 我已經說區塊鏈本來就是個去中心化是衍生出一個技術它本質上就不是但是我們真的看到現在的落地的部分基本上還是要靠中心化取得信任比如說剛才我已經說我們怎麼樣去納管這個區塊鏈因為區塊鏈如果要跟一般民眾生活做連結它必須要跟幾個"},{"start":7265.866,"end":7286.801,"text":"幾個這個機構幾個中心點產生關聯性比如說我們的銀行或是我們所謂的交易所這些都是可以政府公權力可以所到達的地方透過這個方式來管理我們區塊鏈上面的金融交易行為所以就是說其實基本上就是說你也是支持這樣子的一個"},{"start":7288.211,"end":7316.924,"text":"方式嗎因為這是一個假設是一個技術的發展跟全球的趨勢我們擋不住但是我們必須要在我們自己的監理的架構上做好準備當然是擋不住啊我們就是因為擋不住所以我們才必須要就是說你看停了慢了一年如果就是說其實你基本上你並不是你是一個比較創新的寫者如果就是說不是去年就是這當然有很多原因啦這個這個原因慢了這個我們也也就"},{"start":7317.724,"end":7341.669,"text":"不再往後看了我們往前看的話如果就是說可以提前的話其實我相信今天我們討論的議題又不是這樣的一個議題當然一個新的制度的出現必須要考量社會各界的共識像比如進到立法院還有各界的意見還要整合我想這也是真的對於這種新的事物坦白講"},{"start":7342.529,"end":7367.705,"text":"充滿了不確定性但是我們要做好準備但是也不冒進當然是不冒進可是業務已經趕上來了那你的執法法規呢執法法規是不是已經到位我們其實現在全面在推動我們的草案絕大部分我們已經有草案接下來的話我們還在做一個整合因為這次總共有預計會有九個執法要訂定其實蠻龐大的工程九個執法"},{"start":7371.916,"end":7398.344,"text":"總共這個當我們虛擬資產服務法通過以後裡面有授權要訂定我們現在已經有大概九個執法要來訂定其中八個是針對虛擬資產服務業者另外一個是針對穩定幣是那倒是那個九個執法裡頭主委可以不可以就是說你可以很肯定的講就是涵蓋了現有的一個業務嗎這九個執法可以那個就是去那個承擔現在的這些業務嗎"},{"start":7400.245,"end":7425.948,"text":"我們看到不管是交易保管到支付借貸我覺得可以說我們未來的這個法律架構會超過現在登記制的這些業者的範圍那如果往後再延伸RWA還是穩定幣呢看業務未來發展趨勢來做彈性的調整其實我們的法規裡面也留有這些相關的彈性空間所以就是說基本上你認為沒有問題"},{"start":7427.149,"end":7449.222,"text":"當然我們現階段如果有問題我們會處理我們一定把它處理到我們認為沒有問題才會上路所以我想那個眼見最新的一個調查他說高達76%的這個我們的虛擬資產的用戶他顯著就是把他的資產還是放在中心化的交易所這也是為什麼監管的重要性"},{"start":7449.662,"end":7468.781,"text":"是啊是啊所以我們也看得出來啊所以就是說受監管變成是就是這些投資者最大的一個期待啊所以在這裡也是要鼓勵啦也是跟那個金管會加油我想就是說很多投資者是期待就是受監管是一個合法的一個監管"},{"start":7469.862,"end":7483.37,"text":"對 就是說因為政府透過監管取得社會信任是一個產業發展非常重要的基礎這是我們政府保護人民權益一個非常重要的工作啦好 謝謝 謝謝主委 謝謝主席 謝謝委員好 謝謝接著請吳秉瑞委員發言"},{"start":7502.475,"end":7527.068,"text":"主席麻煩請彭主委還有證交所林董事長還有OTC簡董事長好 還有簡董事長好 我也好剛剛前面有幾個委員提到說這個市場上所有的交易者都希望能夠公平的這個原則那其實最釜底抽薪的辦法就是不要以千股為交易單位啊這個"},{"start":7529.932,"end":7546.623,"text":"像以西方尤其美國的市場他是以美股的交易攤位那就不會有零股的問題那無論是怎麼樣交易都是就自然都進到公平的交易的領域裡面來這件事情其實也都有人提過不知道三位的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":7548.274,"end":7563.856,"text":"我們上次也有回答過這個問題像這種都是我們要邁入國際資本市場上一個非常重要各國的制度我們都要去研議然後讓我們是不是怎麼樣能夠促進我們整個跟國際化對標我想我們請教一所"},{"start":7567.156,"end":7584.511,"text":"基本上我們從關於領股跟個股之間事實上我們也一直在縮短它的差距那現在包括縮短的時間也現在變成5秒所以某種程度來講我們也希望慢慢的往委員講的國際的慣例裡面個股的這樣子的方式來去做思考"},{"start":7589.79,"end":7617.56,"text":"如果你贊成的話需要準備或是更動什麼樣的東西大概要多久的時間你能基本上來講的話因為要跟證券商他的系統也要改變相關的華麗要求對所以這個系統的改變的部分容我們我現在沒有現場的資料大概有多少的時間那這個部分來講最主要是系統的改變會佔比較大的原因的因素請董事長同意嗎 贊不贊成"},{"start":7620.443,"end":7634.979,"text":"向委員報告一下其實我們國內的教育制度是從遷谷這個我們已經運行很久那我們當時去討論說要不要去增加零股的時候當然"},{"start":7635.7,"end":7654.709,"text":"因為有一些高價股或者是股力配股的這個領股在交易所以我們希望說能夠讓領股方便一點但是其實委員你注意到現在我們的交易依然是以千股作為它的本對啦我的意思是說如果取消以千股為單位"},{"start":7656.567,"end":7674.142,"text":"就是跟美國接軌一樣是以個股為交易就沒有這個什麼零股跟整張的交易之間的所謂剛剛前面幾個委員提到的那些時間點融資什麼各方面的問題如果這樣子的改變你認為贊不贊成"},{"start":7676.785,"end":7701.187,"text":"其實委員你這樣子講把它變成一套這個是我是贊成但是其實我們有考慮到一個問題就是說我們其實我們台灣的這個股價的這個單價有的並不是那麼高那把它切成零股以後也會單位會變成很碎那另外一個就是在交易的實務上面如果你都是用成零股我們"},{"start":7702.068,"end":7721.27,"text":"之前還有很多是用電話還有一些大單有專人在處理的那個用零股去接的話他的工作量還有整個的處理的process會變得很繁瑣那所以我們零股一開始推出來的時候是完全用電子交易就是說你如果是在電子上面Key那交易"},{"start":7721.61,"end":7741.975,"text":"那這個部分我覺得系統就很快就可以去調整也可以調整成一致但是在這個轉換的過程當中我覺得實務上還是要去考慮怎麼去把它轉化讓這個整個的外界都能夠不管是那一種用電話的啦用電腦的或用手機的他們都可以一併來試用"},{"start":7743.295,"end":7760.325,"text":"剛剛林董事長鄭教授林董事長他是說他原則上是贊成但是這個系統的這個轉變的過程中要有很多的準備階段那現在是問這個前提啦彭主委我剛剛這樣講了你聽得懂我的意思嗎我當然理解往這個方向走你們贊不贊成其實"},{"start":7762.026,"end":7790.725,"text":"我剛才講這個方向這樣子我剛才其實兩位董事長提到一個很現實的問題我覺得方向是對的但就是說我們過去長期以來的交易習慣牽涉到非常多的投資人我想系統更改不是困難但是更改以後所產生影響那怎麼樣避免這些的結果會不會產生一些後遺症剛才兩位董事長就說了這整個交易習慣這麼久以後很多人都以千股為單位突然改變以後比如剛才講用電話下單網路下單他以為輸一個數字大概是代表什麼含義"},{"start":7792.086,"end":7814.04,"text":"比較一段的時間去做個調整他們要去做個推演我想這部分就是過去是長遠的交易習慣所累積出來以後要做這個調整需要有點比較仔細的評估所以你們連評估都還沒有評估他們現在在評估那你方向上你贊不贊成我跟你講對標國際的做法是我們一定是未來的方向"},{"start":7814.56,"end":7828.429,"text":"好 那如果這樣的話你們可不可以讓我們了解說你們準備這些東西你們認為時程大概要多久啊好 那我我會請我們政經局跟兩個交易所仔細討論把比較確切的時程再跟委員報告對 因為如果改成"},{"start":7829.656,"end":7848.317,"text":"就是以股為單位那是單位的改變就好像我舉個例子以前是一次算一噸的那我現在改成公斤計價一噸計價跟公斤計價也是千分之一嘛那你以前是一張因為以前就是交易習慣就是"},{"start":7852.053,"end":7868.202,"text":"以前是這樣的教育習慣 現在改成一股為教育 以一股為教育的單位那個衡量的單位改變了 其實我覺得很快應該都可以試運了如果從技術上試 但是我覺得整個社會習慣盤跟錯節 這部分我們要好好仔細"},{"start":7872.384,"end":7873.285,"text":"請兩位董事長先回座"},{"start":7892.874,"end":7905.147,"text":"要請教你喔最近日本的國會議員在討論日本被中國的支付寶入侵很嚴重所以日本又有很多的商家"},{"start":7907.864,"end":7921.776,"text":"當然不是全部 但是有很多商家他只接受電子支付所以現金有一部分的商家不接受現金交易所以這個是問題在日本比我們更嚴重但是既然看到日本開始在討論這個問題我們台灣也得優待之"},{"start":7925.439,"end":7938.128,"text":"你現在用支付寶台灣有在用啊但是你沒有讓他合法落地結果他在用那些的金額的跑都是在中國的金融機構裡面我們完全管制不到欸"},{"start":7939.366,"end":7963.199,"text":"然後他那個聯絡都要再加上微信等於是拖槍野馬我現在聽說洋網軍啊搞一些什麼灰色交易啊都是用這樣的方式在搞這個彭主委你覺得該如何處理呢我想這個讓我們去了解一下他背後的一些的內容我想其實我們對於這些支付的部分我會請銀行局去把那個詳細整個的"},{"start":7964.96,"end":7993.385,"text":"現在是不是先談支中國的這個所謂的支付寶目前台灣是不台灣沒有合法嘛沒有認可吧但是他確實就是在用啦跟委員報告那運用的場景是在跨境支付也就是說今天的會使用到支付寶就是入客來台沒有喔現在台灣的人也在用喔對就是台灣的人如果到大陸去他會被沒有台灣的人在台灣的夜市買東西他有時候也用這個啊"},{"start":7995.031,"end":8004.909,"text":"你有沒有了解 它是一個網站支付只是說這個東西因為沒有透過台灣的金融體系它是透過中國的銀行體系"},{"start":8006.192,"end":8033.385,"text":"我現在在問的是這個因為目前我們就是一般路邊攤這種情況等於是類似特電的一個運用那這種情況都還是使用我們國內的電資國內的電資占大部分我同意國內的電資譬如說這個LiPay這些我們有控管的這個占大部分我現在是跟你講說如果你去市場去夜市你要用支付寶附帳他也收啊"},{"start":8034.565,"end":8060.259,"text":"那你去調查一下就知道啦不然你是支付寶在台灣又沒有合法我想委員的意思是說假設我們國人在大陸他有支付寶的帳戶他在台灣也一樣可以像陸客一樣在支付嘛利用網路啊 說我透過微信啊你這些東西你如果不去注意他他非法的部分他的比例不是那麼大跟日本比起來差很多 但是"},{"start":8061.414,"end":8078.003,"text":"你這個東西有在用的話就是有一個洞在那邊啊你要抓洗錢房子喔他這個根本就是你根本問不到他啊他就在中國的這個金融體系裡面然後他的通訊也是用中國的網路那你怎麼稽查你有沒有辦法我想"},{"start":8078.783,"end":8098.024,"text":"那個跟我們報告可不可以容許我們時間我們先了解一下日本他們在做的關切的內容我們再來比對我們台灣的狀況那類似的情況我們來看看怎麼樣來先了解我覺得台灣有一樣東西我以前諮詢過我是很贊同的就是無論你怎麼樣接受電子支付商家不可以拒絕現金"},{"start":8100.614,"end":8111.92,"text":"這個日本因為有一些商家拒絕現金交易所以這個變成他們的支付就很多必須要依靠電子支付那電子支付是好是壞這有爭論"},{"start":8113.277,"end":8130.371,"text":"我是跟你在這邊再次的強調我的主張就算電子支付很同情的地方也不可以拒絕現金的支付這樣子才能確保我們新台幣的體系是可以穩健繼續強大下去啦好 謝謝你謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝 謝謝秉瑞委員那我們現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":8514.85,"end":8518.231,"text":"我們現在恢復開會 下一位資訊委員請嚴寬衡委員主席各位理事官員大家好 主席有請金管會彭主委"},{"start":8536.894,"end":8555.688,"text":"委員好 主委好 主委2025年5月初的時候台鐵在區間車發現了一個400萬元那原來是調查後發現原來是一名越南的外籍移工跟其他三名共犯一起經營的地下揮隊"},{"start":8556.969,"end":8578.081,"text":"那換匯的次數924次然後金額高達2億3千萬這不是一筆小數目那我國合法的匯兌管道分別是銀行、中介公司跟金管會核准的五家專營外籍移工的小額匯兌公司"},{"start":8580.731,"end":8587.699,"text":"我們從數據上面看今晚會核准的這五家揮兌公司在2025年全年交易額是1291億"},{"start":8591.332,"end":8618.378,"text":"乍看之下很多但是你跟這四名這個嫌犯他們四名經營的這個地下換匯就可以高達兩億了所以難以想像說還有多少沒有被你們查到的這個數目有多大這個不用我想我從以前就非常關心這個議題那也詢問過主委要如何改善這樣子的情況但是目前看起來應該是效果還是很有限"},{"start":8619.398,"end":8642.016,"text":"那在這部分的監理應該是還有很大的空間可以進步只是一個案件就有2億那4個人就可以做這樣子的一個規模那我們是否有掌握這個整體目前台灣的整體地下會對的黑市有多龐大主委可以說明一下嗎"},{"start":8643.478,"end":8663.376,"text":"謝謝委員我想在這邊也在呼籲因為我們這個匯兌業務是銀行法的特許事業違反是有非常重的刑責那當然金管會不是一個查緝單位但是我們也在這邊呼籲我們有匯款需要還是走合法的管道"},{"start":8664.295,"end":8682.449,"text":"那這裡當然這部分我們也會跟相關的檢調單位來合作針對這些不法的匯兌然後加強這些的茶器那當然我們也一方面也會考慮到市場所需像我們剛才我們陸續的開放五家外籍義工的匯款公司"},{"start":8683.149,"end":8703.117,"text":"也降低了他們的成本也增加可敬性比如他們都可以用數位的方式用APP就可以做到這些事情我想這部分我們會盡量來努力那犯罪行為當然要靠我們多方面來查緝有沒有想過為什麼移工你會冒險你是要進行這樣的非法換匯他的原因是什麼"},{"start":8705.63,"end":8722.98,"text":"這部分的話我想這個任何應該都是以他自己的比較利益來看當然我們也想說任何一個合法的單位他必須要受到監管我想這部分這個詳細的部分我們請銀行局我們時間有限大概就是他的你說剛剛說的這個"},{"start":8724.901,"end":8749.782,"text":"他的優勢吧就是說相對利益第一個就是費率可能比較好然後手續費比較低然後比較方便嘛就大概是這三種不然的話一般人不會寧願冒著這個犯法違法甚至於被處罰甚至於這些所有辛辛苦苦打工賺的錢結果變成不法的這樣子被凍結所以大概就是這三個問題那還有一個就是說我們"},{"start":8751.304,"end":8776.263,"text":"監管會目前政府的這三個管道來講對移工來講比如說他去銀行換他都要上班啊那他銀行的時間他要上班他怎麼去他沒辦法去嘛那另外請託委託人力仲介公司那人力仲介公司是不是另外要跟他收手續費這部分就變成他的成本嘛那所以這個部分可能就考慮那另外你說手機APP這個部分確實是很方便"},{"start":8777.504,"end":8789.165,"text":"我們認為說這樣子就很方便如果假設台北市是這樣子台中市也一樣六度都一樣如果在偏鄉或者是說在一些比較"},{"start":8790.492,"end":8818.984,"text":"比較遠的一些工業區或者是一些農莊這樣子的情況他可能好幾公里都沒有一個便利店所以這對他們來講就很不方便甚至於說沒有辦法做到所以往往很多這個地方就會有一些非法換貨的業者只要有客群又有錢賺政府又抓不到所以這種東西是沒有辦法根絕所以我想說主委可不可以提出一個具體改善的一個"},{"start":8820.182,"end":8835.791,"text":"譬如說方法還是說一個時程讓移工更還有就是說如何讓移工願意來使用我們政府為他們設計的這樣子一個換匯的一個管道這個才是重點吧那個我請你簡短回應一下"},{"start":8839.003,"end":8854.151,"text":"謝謝委員跟委員報告就是我們為了要讓外籍移工能夠使用更便宜更便利的管道我們的確已經有成立了5家這個外籍移工會的公司那我們過去的調查是這些公司他每一次的這個收的手續費大概是100塊左右"},{"start":8855.231,"end":8868.526,"text":"所以相對來講是很便宜那剛才委員所講的相關的案例就是越南籍的移工那這個部分我們有跟勞動部有比對過相關的資訊平均現在的外籍移工大概他在台灣賺100塊"},{"start":8870.228,"end":8889.947,"text":"匯回他的母國大概80塊到90塊那我們也發現大概像印尼、泰國、菲律賓等等他的確都是透過這五家來把賺的錢匯回去但相對來講越南會比較低的越南籍的移工利用我們這五家外籍移工匯兌匯回去的錢大概是100塊"},{"start":8890.748,"end":8919.411,"text":"他會60塊會透過我們這五家的外籍移工會的公司來做那顯然大概就是有20%到30%的錢他不會走這麼便宜這麼便利的一個管道那就業者回饋的意見是這個有可能也會涉及到母國對於外匯相對來講管制會不會比較嚴也就是說可能我們當地在越南的台商他有錢要匯回來但是不是那麼方便那這個就會有這個法規套利的空間"},{"start":8920.651,"end":8947.649,"text":"對 所以我們都知道原因嘛 對不對所以這減少的那兩成要用什麼樣的方法怎麼勸導 怎麼樣來制度的設計才有辦法讓它都合法 盡量的合法你相對跟印尼跟其他國家比較它有八成 可是你跟印尼跟越南一比就少到那兩成嘛這是你們取得的資訊那至於說還有一些黑數呢還有一些不知道的呢 對不對所以這個部分我想 其實"},{"start":8948.61,"end":8966.837,"text":"制度方法那重點就是說相對利益嘛方便然後手續會低對不對這個就是他們在意了嘛他來就是要賺錢他就是要比較多錢回去所以這個部分我想我們知道了原因那就是找出方法然後設計方法"},{"start":8967.737,"end":8989.813,"text":"所以委員的建議非常的具體啦我想這部分我們來去了解然後看看怎麼樣增加我們這些的便利性跟普及性然後來降低這個我們地下會對的這個誘因是是好謝謝主委那再請教我們這個經管會宣布強化保險業資安要求所以要設置資訊安全長這個"},{"start":8992.414,"end":9007.739,"text":"這個職務那從這個資產規模超過三千億的保險公司就必須設置治安長我想請教主委這個門檻三千億為什麼是三千億五千億還是六千億為什麼是三千億"},{"start":9009.143,"end":9024.177,"text":"因為我想這部分是我們在監理上的經驗我們覺得說其實一個公司如果來到了3000億基本上已經有一定的規模剛開始因為尤其治安的問題越來越重要一開始我們是希望它等於比較是這個"},{"start":9025.819,"end":9045.002,"text":"希望是他自己主動來設那當然我們希望說這部分已經成為金融韌性經營的非常重要的點那我們希望把這個門檻把它往下希望我們這個保險運營能夠強化他的治安啦因為至少有專人專責至少他至少就會更重視這件事情"},{"start":9046.604,"end":9071.897,"text":"對 因為現在大部分都已經高度的數位化這個保險商品都可以透過線上來做投保那也大量使用APP還有這些網站跟各種平台來做這些資料的管理但在後面就是像你剛剛提到的說保護的這些身份資料 財務資訊 保單內容甚至還包含一些醫療紀錄 健康資訊都是屬於極度敏感的一些個人資料"},{"start":9072.677,"end":9097.019,"text":"那如果發生治安事件就不只是一個帳戶的號碼的外洩它可能就是說影響層面很廣後續再衍生出來一些譬如說像是詐騙然後各自的濫用這些都是我們民眾最擔心的所以整體的一個治安防護如何真的有效所以剛剛只有你提到這部分就是要非常注重"},{"start":9098.24,"end":9113.21,"text":"除了設置這個植物之外要如何有沒有定期的做一個資安的集合是由於我們自己金管會來主動的要求還是只是任由業者來自行管理"},{"start":9113.55,"end":9140.841,"text":"沒有我想他們自己在做這個部分他自己就有幾道的防線來做這件事情再來就是我們會有兩個一個就是我們例行性的精簡資安都是重點再來就是我們假設有發生資安事件的時候或疑慮我們就會有專案去做我想這部分除了他自己的內部的內控集合以外還有就是我們外部的監理也會來強化因為資安越來越重要其實我們最近對那個金融經營的韌性這部分的考慮越來越重"},{"start":9141.141,"end":9164.865,"text":"所以希望這個部分他們來強化 外部監理我們就要主動抽查這個部分 對 是做這樣子 還是說再委託第三方沒有 我們現在的話 他們都是由我們自己檢察局跟我們的業務局做這樣的事情好的 謝謝主委 謝謝謝謝林委員 下一位請李崑城委員"},{"start":9173.743,"end":9177.246,"text":"謝謝主席我們請彭主委請今晚會彭主委委員好主委好我剛才聽到很多立法院同仁都很在關心國人在買零股的事情尤其像現在台積電或是說像股王更不用講你一張要動則要百萬以上"},{"start":9200.103,"end":9224.649,"text":"就是零股投資變成這個許多的投資人尤其是對一些年輕人來講它是一個基本上比較容易入門的一個投資的方式那我想請教一下這個主委因為我剛有聽就是說因為我們在買這個零股的時候其實會有時間上面的時間差那你也答應說在一個月之內會就這一個買零股的方式來做一些調整是不是"},{"start":9224.949,"end":9246.344,"text":"就是說我請那個兩個交易所跟政企局去研議說未來在一個月之內告訴說我們未來會打算怎麼來研究這件事情怎麼來進程看能不能有一個比較具體的規劃方向那你支持就是說每個人持領股都是成為這個我們這個護國神山的這一個支持者的一部分"},{"start":9247.032,"end":9258.179,"text":"我想買賣零股是因為有它的原因因為主要現在高價股大部分是沒辦法買起比如說幾個可能千元股我看今天那個股好像是一漲停就是一百萬"},{"start":9259.642,"end":9283.788,"text":"那當然這是一個蠻特別不過我們看國外的股市其實那個高股價的個股是非常的普遍我想這個是因為我們隨著我們的資本市場越來越成長越像國際化市場我剛才講說因為我們不能置外於以前就像以前我們說台灣在過去一直說我們是潛疊型現在我們每天盡量都已經上兆元還說自己潛疊大概也不對啦"},{"start":9284.628,"end":9305.875,"text":"那我們越來越多的國際投資人在投資台灣除了本地的投資人以外我剛才講過資本市場要公平對待所有的交易人我想這部分大概是我們努力的方向但剛才提到就是說我們現實在過去這麼長遠都是以整股交易對不對那這部分整個交易習慣牽涉到券商投資人各種年齡層的投資人還有過去他投資的習慣要改變"},{"start":9306.975,"end":9335.111,"text":"這些都是未來的很多制度轉換需要評估的風險所以這部分我們會責成我們兩個交易所這東西只要是未來很多的制度我們都要進行嚴密的研議就跟以前委員提到說不管這包括像T加1 T加2或是這些交易時間還有包括這個領股交易都是未來我們要邁入國際股市是非常重要去關注的一些的趨勢好 那主委你認為說現在很多這一個許多的投資人"},{"start":9336.813,"end":9345.904,"text":"他就是用買零股的方式,支持國內的不論是何種的產業,當然是以高科技或是AI產業為主,那你認為這個現象正不正常?那你認為這個現象有鼓勵嗎?"},{"start":9353.513,"end":9369.845,"text":"我想資本市場是一個隨著我們環境演化過程當中就是說比如說就以我們最近我們台灣資本市場這過去一年來的表現我們歷經了這些過去歷史上台股歷史上最大的波動幅度"},{"start":9370.686,"end":9388.021,"text":"但是我們也承受了整個市場各位可以看到就是它的表現跟過去非常不一樣各種不同的投資人在不同的階段然後這個投資然後其實上它有各種的行為這是一個成熟市場慢慢所走所以你認為這是成熟市場的一個表現就是說"},{"start":9388.681,"end":9414.451,"text":"我們有各式各樣的參與者就是我們市場上有更多的參與者那實際上他有不同的預期不同的想法讓市場機制充分的發揮這本來就是一個市場應該要有的一個趨勢跟方向那請教一下主委就是說川普他宣布延後川習會一個月因為就是這個越南戰事大概也不知道哪時候會停所以他必須要留在華府"},{"start":9415.291,"end":9432.921,"text":"但是這也表示說有可能這個美伊戰爭至少會持續到一個月以上那這樣子的話呢那金管會對於這一個新的一個趨勢或是說新的一個發展那有做什麼樣的一個準備嗎其實我們不只對這件事情我們對很多事情都有做準備沒有就這件事情因為本來預期可以短時間結束實際拉長了"},{"start":9434.602,"end":9456.441,"text":"其實我們一開始就有各種的劇本,包括很快結束、很慢結束,然後會變成持續的一個常態的狀況所以這個就在你們當初的這個想像的劇本裡面就對了我們不能去猜說這是一定是哪個結果,因為我們對於市場的關注一定是全方面的"},{"start":9457.542,"end":9477.903,"text":"那現在如果時間拉長了,也在你們想像的劇本裡面那怎麼去做因應呢?這個我當然不會在這邊對外說明,但是這些的細節不用拿就等於說我們看還是一樣,一個根本就是最終它還是影響到基本面只是剛開始消息出來會影響到投資人的情緒"},{"start":9479.364,"end":9496.577,"text":"這時候呢假設今天大家就會去消化這樣的訊息比如說剛開始大家預期他很短結結束這時候呢這樣那個波動會呈現什麼樣態我們應該在這個時候是什麼時候判讀是一個正常的狀況還是說是一個已經市場失序我覺得一個資本市場成熟最重要讓他的"},{"start":9497.798,"end":9510.231,"text":"這個市場機制能夠充分的發揮不要有任何其他非理性因素介入這時候我們就想說在這個情況會產生什麼非理性因素我們該怎麼樣去預防這兩週的台股有點像坐雲霄飛車啊暴漲又暴跌"},{"start":9513.715,"end":9533.385,"text":"但是委員也慢慢注意到很多的消息如果說一直這樣因為我們資本市場會預先消化未來的訊息當一樣的訊息重複出現的時候它某種程度在前面已經反映過了所以除非是新的訊息我想這個大概就是一個資本市場我想像這麼大的一個事件"},{"start":9534.005,"end":9560.448,"text":"那我們全球的股市比如說台灣從開始那你說那像比如說台股這禮拜表現你認為說是對於這個戰爭的這個消息面的這一個反應稍微鈍化了嗎其實他就是消化已經現在的訊息我覺得現在台灣的資本市場投資人已經有能力去消化各式各樣訊息只要你給他一個充分的資訊跟時間但是我們也擔心的比如說像台積電這種比較大的權值股會成為這個外資的提款機啊"},{"start":9561.228,"end":9579.702,"text":"我想主要是因為台積電這種世界級的公司已經成為國際各種資金不可或缺的標的這個進進出出跟比如說看壞看好其實已經已經不能用這個角度來看基本面當然是沒問題大概都是消息面的問題我想各種的資金比如說你是一個"},{"start":9580.743,"end":9596.161,"text":"共同基金或是這些基金你本來就有一個結帳這些東西本來他進出買賣本來就非常正常那我們只是看說以現在的體量以現在的情況還有像國際整個經濟情勢來看的話都在預期的範圍之內啊都在預期的範圍之內"},{"start":9597.622,"end":9614.065,"text":"那請教一下這個虛擬資產服務法這個會期應該會送到立法院來做審查嗎如果正常的按照程序因為行政院已經完成審查就尊重行政院整個的程序那現在就是會把這個VASP跟這個穩定幣會納入這個納管就對了嗎對 開始有法源那請教主一個問題就是說"},{"start":9621.927,"end":9646.684,"text":"現在這個金管會對於這個穩定幣運用於這個供應鏈還有跨境支付的一個態度因為現在就是說有很多這個台商他們可能是跟國外做生意但是他們可能是收到這個穩定幣他們可能是收到美元的穩定幣然後呢他們如果想要來這個把錢再匯回台灣的時候有面臨到國內的銀行不收還有會計帳如何認列的問題是不是第一個這有兩個問題一個就是說我們也請我們這個"},{"start":9654.228,"end":9666.191,"text":"目前是不是已經有發生這些問題?就是會計的處理現在確實還要再來做釐清比如說如何計算它的價值跟損益如何認定這個確實是那再來就剛才講國際會對的部分其實我們從其他國家的"},{"start":9672.332,"end":9690.79,"text":"經驗裡面其實這個鏈上的交易呢常常不需要透過這個正式的管道比如說你我之間你願意接受這個東西我們錢包就直接對付當然假設要由金融機構來做一個比如說保管承載這種東西確實是需要有個我們的許可"},{"start":9692.071,"end":9706.589,"text":"跟那個制度的跟上這些都是未來都會把它補上就像我們現在開始在推動銀行在做那個虛擬資產保管業務這個就是個非常重要的點讓我們的銀行有辦法去承接像這個跟虛擬資產世界裡面做個連結所以這些問題要等到我們這一個專法"},{"start":9709.733,"end":9721.143,"text":"這個部分的話我們大概都先在做準備但真的真的要真的具有法律上的實施的效率還是要等到法律但是這種準備不能等到出來才開始再做準備因為現在問題就已經有產生了"},{"start":9723.927,"end":9747.101,"text":"那你們的態度呢?對於這個運用於這個穩定幣運用於供應鏈還有跨境支付的一個你們的目前的一個態度沒有問題喔 既然我們政策上已經決定未來要要有穩定幣的這樣一個市場那我們當然就要考慮它的出路這些出路呢 我們也會緊隨著國際上面他們現在做的比較安全的做法我們也會跟上好"},{"start":9748.567,"end":9761.476,"text":"那再請教一下現在這個境外發行這個穩定幣比如說在現在最大的就是這個USDC還有這個USDT那可是"},{"start":9762.315,"end":9791.753,"text":"他們是不是因為他們是在美國管理沒有經過台灣那如果說我們是要求他們有對他們來台灣來做買賣的話是有什麼樣的一個監管的機制在嗎我想是這樣就是未來我們的心理資產服務法裡面假設你要在那邊鑄造像台灣人不特定對象發行的話這時候就要經過我們的特許另外你在國際上已經發行的假設你要在我們的未來的那個VASP的交易平台交易的話要經過我們的許可"},{"start":9792.883,"end":9817.417,"text":"可是 譬如說這兩個字最大啊它目前沒有經過我們的許可嘛 對不對對 現在的話 未來就是它經過就是說應該講 它你許可設為是它已經在國際上流通對但是比如說你要未來在我們的合規的交易所交易的這些的標的都要經過我們的許可跟同意好 OK 好 謝謝主席 謝謝主委好 謝謝李委員再下來請林思明委員質詢"},{"start":9824.861,"end":9848.272,"text":"好 謝謝主席 請金管會主委 請彭主委主委早 想第一個問題來請教你中東這個戰爭情勢對我們股市的影響想面對我們不知何時會結束的中東的戰爭尤其面臨國際海運的要道 荷姆斯海峽被封鎖"},{"start":9849.412,"end":9870.912,"text":"所有的運油運氣的這些油輪出入都受到影響所以國際油價是持續在攀升我們看到昨天國際油價攀升的情況紐約商品交易所西德州的終極原油4月的交割價上漲2.9%報價每桶是96.21美元"},{"start":9875.856,"end":9893.915,"text":"那個敦北海布倫特原油五月交割價上漲3.2%收在每桶103.42美元穩居100美元以上那我們看到目前我們政府對於油價的採取的這個措施是動漲"},{"start":9895.376,"end":9910.061,"text":"但是這只是短期的因應做法中長期我們面對國際能源價格的壓力將來高機率會補漲回來各產業的生產成本一定會增加面對消費者物價指數的影響"},{"start":9911.962,"end":9929.499,"text":"主計總署昨天也保守的估計會影響0.24個百分點那我們看到政期局副局長黃仲豪在3月12日指出將會秉持安全透明公平的三個原則及尊重市場機制來監控市場"},{"start":9930.836,"end":9959.435,"text":"那我們來面對未來生產成本的上漲但消費力道可能減弱各個產業的獲利也可能降低啊金管會你是否有預見這樣一個情況對於未來股市的前景會有怎麼樣的影響金管會是否有任何的因應的備案除了秉持我們這個所謂的安全透明公平三個原則以及尊重市場的機制我們這樣子能夠足夠面對未來的一個情勢的變化嗎"},{"start":9960.776,"end":9964.538,"text":"其實在過去資本市長在過去這一年以來從4月2號關稅開始到現在還有加上這個地緣政治衝突包括這一次其實上都帶來對我們資本市場很大的影響"},{"start":9982.785,"end":10005.06,"text":"那每一次的情況不一樣有些可能很快就結束那這個東西對我們長期經濟的影響就比較比較明確的就落底確定我想資本市場最怕的就是不確定因素那只要任何不確定因素呢就影響投資人的預期這個預期呢就是等於說我們市場機制來做一個消化跟判斷"},{"start":10006.722,"end":10034.341,"text":"主委我打斷一下你現在講得非常正確因為這一次的這個美伊戰爭可能就是何時會結束就是處在一個不確定的狀態所以對於未來股市的影響它的力道多大那我們金管會或者是政局局有沒有做過什麼預估除了剛才講的這三個所謂的秉持安全透明公平的原則以及尊重市場機制"},{"start":10036.202,"end":10046.813,"text":"這三個原則以外金管會還有其他的因應措施嗎我想說這因應措施不會因為這件事情而來但是就是說我們會因為這件事情來檢視我們對於這個應對的方式前面委員問到就是說"},{"start":10052.378,"end":10072.66,"text":"以這次事件來看比較樂觀很多人說他很快就結束了就跟前一次的以疫衝突一樣第二次可能他會拖著就跟像美國宣稱的大概四個禮拜一個月左右這些短期、中期、長期都有相關的因應的一個措施"},{"start":10073.18,"end":10090.218,"text":"因為這些都是因比如說它如果持續下去那果是什麼那果就是說因為資本市場遲早要反映它基本面就剛剛委員提到就是說假設油價持續如果短期性的話很快就消耗掉就沒了但是如果持續下去成本會增加就剛剛提到主席總書記"},{"start":10092.18,"end":10116.557,"text":"雖然我們今年預估7.71可能超過100塊以上就會對於未來產生多覽影響那當然也會影響到未來上市櫃公司他們營收的這樣成本會增加我們投資人就會去反映他未來對這個東西的預期會反映在資本市場上我想這個部分各種的情境我們都有做過設想以及相關要怎麼樣的因應"},{"start":10117.955,"end":10143.796,"text":"是 那個主委是否我們應該強化市場的監理與異常交易的監控如果股市萬一波動很大的話這個異常交易你們是不是要加強監控還有第二個你們是不是要穩定市場的信心啊這當然 我剛剛講說我覺得除了剛才三個原則以外我想這些部分你們都應該要去做啦而且我們要強化上市櫃公司資訊的揭露嘛"},{"start":10144.536,"end":10163.135,"text":"讓投資人知道整個重大成本的變動及時揭露給我們投資人我們會請交易所 比如說這時候我們會充分的揭露各種的財業物狀況就像我們前面委員提到的培育指數這個都會做"},{"start":10166.778,"end":10186.745,"text":"那另外主委今年我們詐騙集團我們看到詐騙集團大量利用無卡提款進行車手的提款與金流的轉移造成我們民眾重大的財產損失我想無卡提款雖然提供便利但也成為詐騙集團提款的重要管道"},{"start":10187.705,"end":10203.558,"text":"所以金款會是否會要求銀行降低這些無卡提款的限額建立異常提款的延遲機制並導入AI金流監控並與警方建立即時的通報機制以有效防堵這些詐騙的金流"},{"start":10206.141,"end":10210.343,"text":"我們有持續在跟委員報告因為詐騙的手法不斷的翻新但是呢我們會很快的根據這個做經驗的分享就比如說我們現在銀行公會裡面有個防詐委員會我們也責成他"},{"start":10226.71,"end":10251.405,"text":"要針對任何的新的東西要趕快的去做經驗的分享這部分提供一些比如說主詐的作為我想剛才講的都是我們現在日常都在做其實我們現在看到無卡提款它的一個手法它的手法就是詐騙集團它透過手機取得無卡提款的這個密碼那車手就到ATM快速提領現金"},{"start":10253.266,"end":10275.763,"text":"就是不需要提款卡他取款的速度就很快嘛車手也難以追查嘛所以成為詐騙集團常用的一個提款方式嘛所以面對這種這個本來給大家便利的結果詐騙集團利用這樣的一個無卡提款的一個便利性成為詐騙的一個方式一個手段嘛所以這種新興的詐騙手段"},{"start":10277.344,"end":10300.594,"text":"那金管會你們未來要如何的去防堵其實我們現在初步是這樣因為像這種無卡提款的便利越便利的話越容易做的這樣我們現在是請他訂一個上限像比如說我們看到有些銀行是每筆頂多兩萬一天就三萬塊當然這個就是只有治標沒治本但是我們就說針對各種不同型態我們有因應再來看看這個作為"},{"start":10301.955,"end":10319.811,"text":"會不會有什麼樣的一個問題有沒有有效性既然有人利用這個東西我們就會把它主委我這樣啦本席提出一個要求就是對於這種新型態的犯罪手法監管會是否能夠研擬一個有效防止的一個手段或者方法"},{"start":10320.591,"end":10342.531,"text":"針對無卡提款的部分來研擬一個有效的抑制的方案那請就可不可以在兩個禮拜內提供給凱西以及我們這個財委會剛剛局長跟我講這個已經請工會在研議了我想說就是按照時間內容我再提供給委員很快可以提出來"},{"start":10344.54,"end":10360.908,"text":"另外這個最後一個問題啊 主委我們看到最近媒體報導從2024年到現在我們不到65歲的組長級的以上人員有10個人提前退休或轉職而且是跨局處包含檢察局銀行局以及政區局"},{"start":10362.508,"end":10383.802,"text":"請問主委,這樣大量的人事異動,你認為主要的原因是什麼?我想有一個很有趣的問題就是我們的退府制度以去年12月31日為例,假設你是大概60年次以內的同仁如果你沒有在去年12月31日退的話,你必須要等到60歲才能夠領"},{"start":10385.485,"end":10408.157,"text":"這個月退這樣讓很多的同仁他重新考慮他的職涯是那這個是我們退補的影響那另外一個是這個他本來在他人生規劃就沒有做到65歲他就提前可能在半年或一年前退休這種東西其實所以說你認為是因為我覺得媒體在報導這個東西把所有各種不同的狀況這樣做"},{"start":10409.178,"end":10421.584,"text":"你有注意到媒體的報導都是我的好同事們我當然有注意到所以我覺得這個東西用單純數量的相加就得到一個結論其實我想這是主要的因素是因為包含過勞與職業來失落所致"},{"start":10429.068,"end":10444.689,"text":"他們很具體的認為敘述的原因是說我們許多的職員或主管花費許多的時間在像是做粉專的發文應付大任的會議整理懶人包等等"},{"start":10446.314,"end":10472.16,"text":"所以這些因素是不是導致他們離職的主要因素因為我自己在過去也是基層公務員起來那雖然在學校教書二十幾年再過來我覺得現在我必須替所有的公務同仁們講一句話確實現在的工作確實挑戰很大那我覺得大家都是靠著一股熱忱跟這些在我想這個不是主要的原因我想主要是整個"},{"start":10472.62,"end":10492.896,"text":"那我也做一個要求就希望金管會在一個月之內提出完整的我們人才流失報告的檢討還有我們流財與改革的具體方案我想這沒問題但是我在這邊澄清金管會這部分我們現在你要提報告我們意見但是你要求他們做那麼多的報告就是他們工作身家的原因"},{"start":10493.596,"end":10512.747,"text":"不會啦 這個很簡單啦就只會把剛才葛柔講的這個具體的提出來我想還是要有所要求啦我想藉這個機會我也給所有金管會同仁跟我們周邊單位加油打氣我們不會因為受到這邊報導而影響我想大部分我們還是盡心盡力全力衝刺努力謝謝林志明委員下一位請葉元之委員"},{"start":10531.936,"end":10535.294,"text":"主席好 先慢慢請金管會主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":10539.426,"end":10566.695,"text":"喂好昨天好像問一下有關於關稅談判對於金融的影響那雖然說對等關稅川普的那個ART對等關稅已經被大法官宣布是違憲但是我看我們政府是講說之前談的有關於232的部分的條件都還要繼續嘛232要繼續那當時的條件是說企業直接投資去美國2500億美金另外就是"},{"start":10567.861,"end":10574.347,"text":"我們看政府的講法是說還有2500億的信用額度我想先確認一個資訊這個2500億美元的信用擔保額度是上限還是至少2500億美元"},{"start":10585.095,"end":10608.434,"text":"那個是他們談判據我所知因為這主政是國發會啦那我們只是配合去真的提供我們現在融資保證機制現有的融資保證機制的相關的工作方式所以這你不確定嘛對不對沒有這是因為國發會你看國發會是說他要找金管會、經濟部、財政部一起來討論怎麼建立一個專案的信保機制所以理論上金管會應該要參與討論那國發會怎麼跟大家講的"},{"start":10611.937,"end":10639.137,"text":"到底這兩千五百億美元是上限還是至少兩千五百億的額度額度對就是確定兩千五百億額度一定要達到嘛就是他要提供這樣一個促進的基礎那所以換言之啊這兩千五百億美元應該是至少要兩千五百億美元他就不是上限因為上限的感覺是說我政府只要提供五百億也可以啊因為上限量我沒有超過上限就好一千億也可以啊都符合這個條件嘛"},{"start":10639.577,"end":10667.662,"text":"就是我們一個信保機制本來就有它的一個規模這個規模就是2500億可是這個主委我給你看一個這個是1月多當時簽MOU的時候美國商業部他們發的新聞稿它裡面有提到在直接投資就是至少2500億美金還有另外一個額外投資額外投資就是台灣要提供at least至少2500億美金的信用擔保"},{"start":10668.823,"end":10685.423,"text":"所以是2500億以上不是說要提供上限2500億所以我不太懂為什麼美國商業部發布的新聞資料有關於MOU的內容和台灣講的不一樣也有可能是美國錯啦我不知道啦但是這個資訊就不對嘛"},{"start":10687.25,"end":10702.922,"text":"那資訊不對但是你現在接收到的訊息是說應該就是2500億的規模不是說至少嘛但是我現在要講一件事情因為現在這個跟以前的中小企業的信用基金不太一樣嘛它現在是說由國發會"},{"start":10705.029,"end":10723.285,"text":"的專案召集大家然後要成立一個62.5美金到100億美金的這樣一個規模然後再加上乘數譬如說保證倍數是15到20倍等等等等等等希望能夠達到美國的要求但是有沒有可能出現一個狀況"},{"start":10724.636,"end":10751.012,"text":"就是比如說體質比較良好的企業像台積電還有其他資中訊產業他們要去根本也不太需要信用擔保嘛因為他們本來自己就信用擔保就很好根本不用活花金金政府擔保甚至他可以直接發債也可以自己直接就可以了嘛那有一些公司也許他沒辦法提出擔保品然後可能銀行也不願意直接貸款給他他就比較需要用到這個信用擔保沒錯吧對那在這種情況之下"},{"start":10752.532,"end":10771.342,"text":"會來申請的可能就是風險比較高的企業然後本來如果沒有保證美國一定要到這個額度的話那銀行就可以看狀況政府可以看狀況我覺得有投資的潛力可能會賺錢我就給他沒有我就不給嘛大家可以再商言商但現在是美國要求一定要達到這個規模"},{"start":10772.423,"end":10797.382,"text":"啊我們就有壓力啊如果沒有到這個規模怎麼辦所以到時候一些企業看起來風險很高看起來也不會賺錢但我們因為已經承諾美國了所以呢拜託你來跟我貸款好不好我給你信用代保就拜託他就是變成要達到這個規模那這個就增加了很多政府的口號機的風險還有這個因為這個也會你們也會邀請公股銀行跟民營的銀行來參加嘛"},{"start":10798.883,"end":10819.373,"text":"所以也會增加公共銀行跟民營銀行的風險所以有沒有可能會有這個狀況那金管會有沒有在這方面有沒有提出什麼因應之道其實就跟委員報告非常抱歉啦這個剛剛提到都是我們沒辦法幫國發會跟您說明它的規劃的方向但是我們這邊可是你有沒有提出我剛剛講的這種風險因為這個是會對銀行產生影響嘛我們主要是"},{"start":10821.974,"end":10846.001,"text":"提供我們過去在信保基金裡面的運作的方法以及對於這個信保的乘數這些的運作的模式提供一些專業的建議給他們那至於說政治的規劃包括關股的出資也是財政部在負責我想這部分是政府通力合作我們儘管會盡我們所做的事情剛剛委員問的問題我都沒辦法帶那個我會問你是因為你是管銀行的嗎"},{"start":10846.661,"end":10864.45,"text":"那如果你也覺得我剛剛講的那個風險有存在那難道不應該站在銀行的主管機關的立場參與這個會議的時候也可以提出這樣的意見嗎主動積極做事嘛而不是說他叫你幹嘛你就幹嘛嘛那當然我只是說剛才委員問的問題都不是我能夠代為回答的問題啦"},{"start":10866.371,"end":10876.704,"text":"我是希望你可以提出這樣的我是希望你可以站在風險的考量提供一個建議跟解決之道啦當然當然謝謝謝謝委員接下來請王世堅委員質詢"},{"start":10893.018,"end":10897.642,"text":"謝謝主席我請我們金管會彭主委請金管會彭主委主委辛苦了我很高興看到有一個資料就是說我們長期在講的我們國內受險資金70%去購買海外的債券跟基金那這些的兩大風險一個戰爭一個匯率這兩個風險我們都遇到了"},{"start":10921.52,"end":10949.872,"text":"那我們很高興看到這個數字就是說我們現在從70%到現在最新的數字已經調降到67.48%結果我才剛高興我想說那是不是我們吸引了2.5%左右的資金把他們叫回我們台灣啦參與我們國家的重大建設公共工程等等結果竟然不是啦"},{"start":10950.635,"end":10960.064,"text":"有授權公司離開了帶回來有帶一些回來確實是可是來到67.48竟然是因為匯率還有因為會計準則就是資產從分類就是這個IFRS17這個準則改變"},{"start":10972.91,"end":10987.306,"text":"所以才去降到這個樣子也就是說我們努力跟受險業者呼籲請他們回來的這一個部分事實上還是沒有達到"},{"start":10988.487,"end":11009.548,"text":"目標也就是希望他們回來參與我們國家的公共建設那大家表示說對我們國家有信心嘛而且讓我們國家的重大建設基礎建設可以加速加快所以我們也一直要求說是不是放寬這些標準那你們有把投資"},{"start":11012.372,"end":11025.772,"text":"門檻這個你們有放寬那也有降低了這個風險係數這些都有做可是成果還不是很好所以我才回來想到一個問題就是說是不是"},{"start":11026.773,"end":11047.788,"text":"我們國內這些基礎建設 公共建設包括其他的VOT啦 初餐這些案件 是不是我們的案源不夠我們的案源數不夠 案量不夠所以這一個部分我希望說金管委員 因為你主旗責 所以是不是"},{"start":11048.749,"end":11063.017,"text":"你查了以後應該跟相關各部會去推動說希望他們能夠趕快去增加這些案源案量比方說交通部的交通的債券啊"},{"start":11064.157,"end":11085.675,"text":"這些都可以做交通最多這一些部分可以做的因為交通未來通了以後它自償性那麼高嘛不是這樣嗎不管是公路鐵路捷運自償性那麼高是不是按原按量的這個部分你有責任要去請各部位來配合協調因為現在啊"},{"start":11086.275,"end":11102.501,"text":"我們這個上限說讓他們回來讓他們可以加入公共建設這個我們的上限有3到5兆這麼高但是歷年來加起來受選院回來的資金參與投入公共建設的才1000億"},{"start":11107.304,"end":11118.281,"text":"現在我們的目標的上限3兆到5兆有非常大的一個距離所以你看法呢 你有沒有預估怎麼樣多少的時間可以在這個部分補足"},{"start":11120.039,"end":11144.929,"text":"實現委員 委員關心這個議題也是我們現在政策的方向因為其實受險業它長期的資產負債必別不匹配這是導致它長期風險的來源剛剛委員也提到所以我們其實剛剛委員看到那個數字除了剛剛講快遞調整以外我們也確實看到金額 國外投資的金額也在下降這是個好現象就是說我們過去一直都是那個都是一直往上走"},{"start":11145.649,"end":11159.434,"text":"現在開始往下 雖然是等於說那個比例的部分已經沒有再往上增加了我想這是一個很好的開始再來就是我們投入國內需要一段時間 比如說剛剛講工建"},{"start":11161.235,"end":11180.149,"text":"通常要一段時間的準備這件事情我們也非常的就讓我們的受險業也參與在我們這次的兆元投資方案裡面剛才這個各個評論如果我有注意到現在很多保險公司已經開始關注到國內很多相關的投資的這些的這些的方案"},{"start":11181.529,"end":11201.458,"text":"再來就是他們在投資國內資本市場也在增加我想這部分是一個從好的方向去走就像剛剛那個數據我們看到那個國外投資已經開始往下等於說比例開始往下翻轉我們會持續來做這件事情第一個至少跟我們報告很多次至少你現在新收的新錢"},{"start":11202.699,"end":11226.566,"text":"要能夠盡量留在台灣你已經投出去有它一定的投組的壓力那不見得立刻要撤回來但是你新的錢每年會增加一到兩兆的新錢你就可以來在台灣來投那這樣慢慢的就可以這個錢呢這一點我看可能要再更大的力氣花在這一個部分新的他們就不要出去啦舊的就回來我們擴大這些範圍嘛"},{"start":11228.226,"end":11251.214,"text":"比如說出產條例不只VOT啊你像VOO ROT VTO這些我們都應該擴大這個層面讓他們只要回來就好甚至我認為都更的案件啊這些都是老屋更新這些這樣子的案件其實都可以擴大他們適用的範圍嘛"},{"start":11253.695,"end":11265.941,"text":"其實你既然講到授選這一個部分還有一個大的問題我們最近接獲很多民眾這一兩年來很多民眾的陳情授選公司他們開始"},{"start":11269.002,"end":11296.482,"text":"比較對民眾保護有利的案子這個新的案件他們不賣新的過去舊的商品比較對保護有利的他們可以不賣因為我們保險法也有規定授權公司確實他有權利他可以停賣這是他們的權利沒錯但是我們現在金管會也配合他們做一個叫利便型的保單"},{"start":11297.543,"end":11316.279,"text":"那其實我們費率這個應該符合這個氏族性合理性公平性但是在這氏族性合理性公平性之下我們現在用的所謂的雙軌制這一個部分我覺得有點傾向"},{"start":11318.015,"end":11345.161,"text":"甚至過度傾向對於保險公司對他們有利我們說要保證續保但是我們同意他調高保費那這個就是過度傾向保險公司因為保險公司他們本來就可以停售所以他們是強勢保護是弱勢也就是說對保護真正有利的比方說像醫療險"},{"start":11347.037,"end":11373.31,"text":"現在我調了一下說最近民眾投訴的案例我們光去年去年去年一年對於國內21家授權公司對他們申訴投訴的案件竟然高達7000件而且這7000件裡面最多的爭議的就是必要性的醫療"},{"start":11375.32,"end":11391.559,"text":"還有手術的認定當然這也牽涉到理賠金額的認定那這一些部分啊我認為在這個部分有過度傾斜啦也就是說保險公司仗勢著他的強勢"},{"start":11393.517,"end":11418.067,"text":"他可以停保你那你要買就買哪幾種這些都是利率可以變動的所以我認為這樣子過度傾向保險公司這個部分我們應該去做一些調整事實上受險業即便去年有遭遇到匯率跟戰爭這兩個大風險一個俄國的我們買的那一千三百多億那個確實他們風險"},{"start":11420.512,"end":11432.685,"text":"那這個匯率這個因為跟美國談判的這個匯率的這個波動但是即便這樣這十年來啊受險公司的獲利"},{"start":11434.757,"end":11453.022,"text":"除了有三年是以百億來算的除了三年是百億算有一年946億一年793億一年355億其他七年啊都是上千億啦都上千億最高的一年我講2021年他就賺了2400億"},{"start":11457.353,"end":11471.269,"text":"這麼高的利潤喔那去年即便去年我剛剛講說去年那個有遇到這樣的匯率的風險去年他們也只是損益來啦只是小賺"},{"start":11472.813,"end":11487.671,"text":"也沒有虧到太多啊所以我認為如果以長時期來看壽險業依然是第一個它是民眾社會重要的需求第二點它應該有社會"},{"start":11489.653,"end":11507.595,"text":"的安定性這個保障性公義性這個是成立授權我們允許他們成立授權允許他們收取那麼多保費我們對他們要求的他們起碼應該盡到的基本的社會責任嘛他們不能"},{"start":11509.082,"end":11537.674,"text":"那個保險戶不能置消費者於不顧只能說朝他們自己有利的方向去講因為十年來看到了他們還是大量的獲益所以在這一個部分我希望說這個金管我們多加點油啦那申訴的案件確實太高了而且申訴的你看你多數去翻閱這些申訴的理由民眾的內容都是"},{"start":11538.334,"end":11552.324,"text":"都是孤苦無依需要保險的大眾們他們碰到了碰到了疾病碰到了手術碰到了當初他們保險所需要要買到的保障結果"},{"start":11554.245,"end":11573.82,"text":"讓他們大失所望所以才會有這麼高這麼多的爭議案件所以那個彭主委認眾道遠啦我對你基本上我是非常肯定謝謝我認為你有學者的風範那你也有對理想一定的堅持但是在面對"},{"start":11575.021,"end":11591.828,"text":"受險業這些金融龐然大物的時候我們要更堅定你要堅定才有辦法帶領你屬下你們金管會你們的保險局銀行局他們才有辦法更堅定去執行好不好好謝謝謝委員的勉勵謝謝接下來請鍾嘉斌委員質詢"},{"start":11610.223,"end":11618.326,"text":"主席在場委員先見 業績重新上場官員會場工作夥伴媒體資訊先生有請我們金管會彭主委請金管會彭主委委員好主委好來 看到這個新聞標題最大LNG 下一頁來源國卡達停產網路上一堆訊息認知站說糟糕要斷氣了你會擔心嗎 你看到這樣的新聞雖然這不是你的夜館會擔心這樣影響我國的能源安全及儲備嗎"},{"start":11638.835,"end":11658.114,"text":"但是因為我有參加行政院的那個討論我不擔心是但是所以這邊要告訴大家很多民眾因為沒有參加行政院的討論所以會擔心所以我認為這不是經濟部的事情是整個行政院各部會對於我國的包括能源安全的儲備都要協助宣傳同意嗎"},{"start":11660.019,"end":11683.494,"text":"所以就像我們的金融安全也需要其他部位來協助一樣好往下看但是我們金管會看到了這樣的新聞說金融商業對中東曝險新高您覺得2.35兆金管會緊盯中東的曝險衝擊可以控制嗎我想就以我們現在掌握他投資的標的應該還在我們的認為可控的範圍之內很好但是為什麼我們往下看為什麼我們"},{"start":11684.395,"end":11695.174,"text":"在國外的曝險這麼多我看到一個數字大概都將近30兆有什麼方式來減少我們這些金融業包括國民的超額儲蓄在海外投資曝險"},{"start":11696.431,"end":11713.767,"text":"當然就是我們想方設法希望優化台灣的投資環境跟標的吸引我們這些資金能夠留在台灣像畫面上說的造源投資國家發展方案這些都是我們公共設施都是我們可以來做的對不對是的那這些要怎麼樣吸引國內的資金來呢"},{"start":11714.674,"end":11731.638,"text":"當然就是要把他就等於說這個產品能夠盡量能夠如果增加心理授權資金要符合他的資金的性質啦還有就是說能夠找到合適他的標的然後還要有誘因對不對我剛剛說的我們的金控集團海外從27兆到現在29兆"},{"start":11734.178,"end":11751.91,"text":"那是因為沒有合適的標的還是法令上不足我覺得這要討論那我知道我們金管會一直希望能夠在法令上協助那至於其他部會在創造適合的投資標的要去努力那您覺得這個法令的推動有沒有辦法繼續的加強我們討論這個很久了嘛"},{"start":11753.271,"end":11769.586,"text":"因為台灣確實很多地方需要很多的建設台灣又是有錢只是它現在最大的挑戰國外有很多非常容易投資的工具所以說這個相對應之下國內真的要好好的我們真的除了"},{"start":11770.507,"end":11797.979,"text":"標的本身誘因很重要就是整個保險業從長期風險的角度來看他應該要從更長遠的角度來決定他未來的資產配置簡單講法規跟誘因金管會來想辦法投資標的其他部位包括經濟部來想辦法我介紹一個其他部位要管的就是無人載具過去我們立法院發起了這樣一個聯盟過去我們促參法當中也有四個版本的提案提出來那或許大家很奇怪"},{"start":11798.459,"end":11817.962,"text":"無人載具無人機聽起來不是軍工產業嗎不是打仗才需要的嗎有哪些公共設施需要民間投資呢主委你會不會有這樣的疑惑好來我解釋給你聽就是說其實無人機在農業物流醫療測惠跟交通最大的優勢是什麼有人說是人力成本其實就是什麼它可以執行高危險的任務"},{"start":11819.116,"end":11847.226,"text":"無人機為什麼會那麼常在軍事上先用因為無人機用得再多不會有人命的傷亡所以你可以用工業製造去取代你國內的人口的消耗所以現在的戰爭大量使用無人機就是因為沒有人那沒有人的無人載具還可以用在哪裡呢往下看往下對往上來其實就是無人貨運現在航空業的貨運成本最貴的是什麼你知道嗎"},{"start":11849.404,"end":11858.152,"text":"駕駛員跟燃油貨機上最貴的貨物不是那些晶片是那個駕駛員駕駛員會有疲勞駕駛員的薪水駕駛員可能會罷工"},{"start":11861.343,"end":11880.884,"text":"但是另外無人貨運它的一個限制就是什麼?載重量你知道現在大型的無人機可以飛多遠嗎?應該幾千公里吧沒有錯,伊朗的艦艇型可以飛一千多公里台灣到菲律賓有沒有一千多公里?不需要,大概三百公里就可以來回你有沒有聽過郭志輝部長說的境外關內?有"},{"start":11882.085,"end":11903.215,"text":"有沒有聽過台灣的北呂宋南台灣我們的經貿特區有那麼這個經貿特區要生產什麼呢你有沒有聽過特斯拉自動化汽車工廠它的輸送帶有多長3公里3公里可以在一個大的汽車裝備廠進行你可以想像一個300公里的裝配線的輸送帶嗎"},{"start":11905.551,"end":11928.194,"text":"300公里的輸送帶的裝配線他就是用無人貨機在台灣南台灣跟北屬中間不斷的穿梭24小時不間斷運送這些過去台灣要送到越南送到中國的這些零組件在那個地方在越南或者說現在改到菲律賓組裝生產後可以銷往其他的世界市場這樣你有想像了我們看一下這就是未來的無人貨運"},{"start":11930.197,"end":11955.648,"text":"那這些需要什麼 往前跳一頁這些的無人貨運就需要這些的公共設施這些的公共設施值得投資的往下看再往下看所以投資的標的法規適合完善有沒有已經完成三讀了我們在一一三年的三月已經黨團協商了未來有沒有預期這是投資標的的部分那法規跟誘因的部分金管會有沒有把握在近期內可以把它完成"},{"start":11956.428,"end":11981.506,"text":"我想我們大概就是有關剛委員提到我們的投進投顧法修正就我們常講REITs的修正這部分當然會帶來很多因為剛委員講說其實比如受請業資金他還是不適合直接投資在那個事業的我瞭解我說法規的部分有沒有夠完善了還差最後一里路嘛對對對就是標的主要是標的標的我幫你講但是這些法規跟誘因法規的部分金管委什麼時候可以把它"},{"start":11982.438,"end":11999.296,"text":"推動完畢我們也很期待說這個這部法律通過以後可以讓我們再有比如說刑訴標的的樣態能夠更多元更有效率這樣所以法規還是要趕快完成我們執法都有在準備最後因為主席站起來了"},{"start":12000.356,"end":12026.57,"text":"這幾個問題就麻煩您如果不動產投資信託基金合併小股東學院如果保障如果避免不動產投資信託基金清算下市影響小股東權益以及如果避免發行人將不良資產賣給不動產投資信託基金等等這就是現存市場上的問題我們希望未來金管會能夠針對問題在法定制度完備後能夠幫助實務上來推動可以嗎就這些問題來提供給本席好不好沒問題謝謝一個月嗎可以好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":12029.377,"end":12031.658,"text":"接下來請謝依鳳委員質詢謝謝主席我想要請我們彭主委請金管會彭主委謝文豪彭主委請教一下現在中東衝突伊朗以色列我們金融機構曝險大概多少"},{"start":12057.614,"end":12070.715,"text":"大概2.3兆左右2.3兆是不是加其他的海灣國家嗎就是我們所謂的這次受到波及這個區域大概主要是保險公司跟銀行的曝險"},{"start":12072.119,"end":12098.747,"text":"所以你看在中東的資金這麼多尤其是杜拜現在也在發展金融中心就有這樣子的一個衝突你有沒有什麼具體的措施因為畢竟台灣在發展亞資中心你有什麼具體的措施能夠讓這些資金回到台灣這也是一個很好的時點 是不是是的"},{"start":12101.528,"end":12121.241,"text":"就是說當然我覺得任何一個國際重大事件都會擾動那個均衡那從過去很多事件裡面我們看到就是資金的移動會根據這個地緣政治去做一些影響這部分也是讓我們看到有些假設這樣機會就是其實很根本就是我們怎麼樣壯大自己"},{"start":12122.081,"end":12144.778,"text":"這是一個機會點所以是不是應該金管會要在這時候提出一些更具體的措施讓就是我們的金融機構以及就是這些國外的資金能夠來到台灣那我再請教一下就是說我們現在ICT半導體等等的要赴美去投資"},{"start":12146.899,"end":12173.413,"text":"過去日本他是他的企業到哪裡他的金融機構就發展到哪裡那我們有沒有辦法讓台灣的金融機構能夠亞洲化國際化隨著我們的企業要到就是說不管是到美國也好這是一種雙向的也同樣的會促進就是國外的資金也回流到台灣來這是一個雙向的"},{"start":12176.365,"end":12192.57,"text":"金管會有沒有什麼樣具體的措施?其實我也有關心最近比如說我們整個的金融業海外佈局的重點除了新南向以外這個就是未來等於說我們的台商整個佈局的路徑還有現在對美國"},{"start":12193.63,"end":12206.445,"text":"還有澳洲這些都是還有像南亞這些都是我們就是其實像我們金融業的嗅覺很靈敏它就跟著我們的廠商的步伐前進我想這個大概是已經是非常明確的一個趨勢"},{"start":12209.008,"end":12231.67,"text":"所以那金管會也會就是持續的給予各項的措施的協助當然比如說我們在跨國的時候比如說我在設據點當然牽涉到金融監理的合作這我們一定會來當我們金融機構的後盾比如說我也跟我們同仁講一下假設我們跟各國的監理官有一些雙邊會談的時候我們要順便提出來我們需不需要我們的"},{"start":12233.031,"end":12252.849,"text":"我們國內金融機構需要我們協助的透過這個政府之間的溝通會更加的順暢跟有支持的力量好那我們也希望說就是就是這些資金可以來到台灣那現在目前股市的交易量排名全球第幾名"},{"start":12253.171,"end":12271.085,"text":"我們的交易量大概前十左右但是我們的市值大概前七那對於吸引外資來台灣的股市投資那你有沒有什麼具體的措施你的目標是希望能夠達到第幾名前五名我們是前五名可以嗎當然我"},{"start":12272.586,"end":12288.151,"text":"越前面越好前五名確實是我覺得台灣是可以思考的啦可以思考問題是金管會有什麼具體的措施那比如說我們如果委員有注意到我們責成兩個交易所我們不斷的在做我們跟市場國際化的這個串聯合作"},{"start":12291.392,"end":12318.419,"text":"還有就是我們壯大我們的資本市場計畫未來我們也會期待我們的債券市場能夠持續的擴大這部分我覺得我們都在努力因為台灣在過去這一兩年來我們整個資本市場的發展是舉世矚目我想這部分除了這個規模以外那個值得提升還有人才都要把它拉上來剛才講說其實台灣股市已經國際資金非常重要的一個資本市場"},{"start":12319.397,"end":12344.649,"text":"好還有最後一點就是說對於目前我們的地方創生他跟一些農村以及就是永續環境都已經結合在一起了那未來是不是可能就是把這樣子就是一些ESG就是金管會對於企業的ESG的這些評鑑的指標也納入了地方創生讓這些"},{"start":12346.71,"end":12365.131,"text":"就是說企業的ESG能夠協助地方的團體社區等等發展對臺灣自然環境永續有幫助的這樣子的一個地方創生這也是我們設計這套評比制度最重要的目的希望導引我們的"},{"start":12366.813,"end":12388.169,"text":"產業資源配置在我們比如說有助於ESG永續的方向我想假設比較具體部分其實我們這個指標隨時要檢討而且就是說我們也回應非常社會各界對這個比如說這個制度上面的一些的調整也歡迎委員比如說有具體的建議的話提供給我們"},{"start":12389.026,"end":12412.757,"text":"對 就是對於環境永續有利的地方創生其實裡面有些指標應該是有涵蓋到這裡對 就是你的地方創生是不是納入這樣的指標如果有更具體的部分我們可以再怎麼優化就請委員提供比較具體的建議我們來請我們同仁還有相關單位來研議好 謝謝下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢"},{"start":12419.978,"end":12423.359,"text":"我們說人民的小事就是政府的大事這個保險法的這個部分"},{"start":12439.132,"end":12462.026,"text":"大家現在出國都是很多都保這個旅遊不變險海外到海外去也是會那到國內旅遊也是一樣像在金門地區如果飛到金門的時候天氣起霧今天又起霧沒有飛那如果有旅屏險當然會造成就是有很大的注意海外也是吧海外也有這個旅遊不變險"},{"start":12463.627,"end":12491.168,"text":"那這個去廈門是算出國嗎去廈門算海外嗎 算吧那請問這個海外不避險為什麼有民眾跟我們反映我舉這個例子給你聽他到廈門去 從廈門要搭船小山洞是坐船不是坐飛機然後要再回到題門然後再坐飛機回到台中那因為颱風導致船班飛機都停駛就滯留了很多天但他申請履平權的時候被拒絕"},{"start":12491.989,"end":12499.991,"text":"因為保險公司主張保單保障範圍僅限於飛機不包括船運等其他交通工具"},{"start":12500.967,"end":12527.657,"text":"好 你們看下一頁這個現行的法規裡頭這個海外旅行的不便險這個部分你們的法規依據是你們經常會訂的這個個人海外旅行不便險的參考條款第二條有相關的法令 它是說是包括搬機延誤 行李延誤旅行文件損失取消 旅程取消 旅程更改然後行李損失嘛你們的相關條 第三條"},{"start":12530.279,"end":12542.411,"text":"寫的是這樣子喔您有營業執照經政府登記許可據固定場在一班次提供不特定的旅客運送之服務是包括水上路上及交通工具啊"},{"start":12543.687,"end":12563.775,"text":"你們的這個法規裡頭是包括入海空的這個工具都包括嘛那為什麼民眾如果一個法規是有包括水上工具那為什麼就船嘛民眾從廈門搭金門搭船回金門延誤也是去海外嘛沒有辦法申請搬機延誤保險那個是不是保險局可以比較來說明一下"},{"start":12564.491,"end":12587.764,"text":"是 報告委員 那個這裡講到的含水上 陸上 空中的這些在我們的海外旅遊的不便嫌裡頭是有包括那個航班的部分 但是那個水上的部分船啊對 船的部分為什麼不包括不是 出國不是指 去廈門就是離開中華民國的那個台灣地區境內嘛 對不對"},{"start":12588.644,"end":12607.219,"text":"那也算啦 你從 你不要坐船好了 你坐飛機你從台北到廈門嘛 松山到廈門有算嘛 對 因為你坐飛機可是因為交通工具的改變卻不包含那這樣是不是你的這個 有一點這個因為你原來的法規依據是有包含水 路 空都有啊"},{"start":12609.418,"end":12631.843,"text":"您了解我的意思嗎那第二個這個你去研究一下如果有問題的話是不是應該要修改因為可能當初在訂定的時候沒有小山通沒有坐船出國的例子有可能是這樣子大家都是坐飛機那小山通出國到大陸去這個是現在一個也很普遍應用的交通工具"},{"start":12632.583,"end":12659.249,"text":"所以的確會遇到這樣情形你們是不是要研究這個部分是不是應該要怎麼樣請保險公司來做這個機制的話要增加這個部分當然這個匯率保費什麼當然他們可以再去計算各方面對不對那因為這個也算是理由不變險的一個部分這個可能要改進這個部分我們可以再研究那第二個來有關這個再上一個這個搬機延誤和里程更改的這個部分這個搬機延誤這個是天災這個下一頁再下一頁"},{"start":12663.232,"end":12692.265,"text":"不是 來這個 你看喔你們條款24條規定海外旅行期間遇到交通工具什麼罷工 戰爭 暴動 天災的會有一些理賠嘛那天災比如說颱風算是 對吧颱風是天災 那為什麼農務不是呢這個在海外的那個旅行不便行裡頭這個部分是應該是有算那都算嘛 對不對那這個至少我看到Case裡頭他申請理賠就說因為農務不算"},{"start":12693.63,"end":12709.059,"text":"包括你剛剛舉的那個例子我不是要為單一case說啦我說的是整體的情形嘛融入的話應該也是要算所以請你們就是這些例子就是這是其中一個例子但一定很多有發生所以這個部分請你們要具體的做這個跟保險公會還有這個針對這個旅遊這個險的部分這個適用範圍包括水上的交通還有小山東船班這個整個納進來"},{"start":12719.485,"end":12722.466,"text":"因為很多的業務要運作到遇到真實的案例我們才知道我們的那個條款有沒有什麼可以來了解檢討"},{"start":12744.212,"end":12759.545,"text":"好 回去一個月內給我們報告你跟相關公會討論一下怎麼來納入啦那費率應該怎麼樣你們大家都可以去討論一下這個老百姓是的確有這樣的需求第二個有關這個要在金融推動這個金融科技創新的一些"},{"start":12760.686,"end":12775.608,"text":"一些目標這上回我已經問過了就是說如果有旅客比如從金門要到廈門去那我說電子支付的部分那電子支付的部分那大部分現在大部分都用微信支付嘛那我們台灣可能有什麼上次台灣什麼"},{"start":12777.03,"end":12800.049,"text":"台灣Pay什麼這一類的那如果還要到那邊去下載到了大陸需要下載他們的什麼WeChat那大陸的旅客到金門來還要去下載什麼台灣Pay這個是在強能索南嘛事實上也很難這樣做到嘛那是不是有什麼方式對不對就是說你們來推動這個跨境支付的一個至少如果沒有辦法現在拓展到台灣整個島颱風現在至少在"},{"start":12803.231,"end":12821.837,"text":"經銷往來比較密切這個用這個三合實驗的方式從這個地方開始來這個推動這包括當然技術啦這QR Code怎麼轉接清算啦這個一些試點啦比如說現在台灣接口這個支付現在可以到日本去掃碼支付嘛到日本就可以可以嘛那還有我知道好像有一個"},{"start":12823.678,"end":12844.912,"text":"到韓國去也是可以嘛我說的是說像我們這樣的電子譬如說每個單位人來這邊都用他們的微信然後都弄這個我們廠商都要去變成使用他們的微信的這個部分啦就最好他們來就可以直接直接你們在這個這個金蝦之間用個什麼樣的機制啊直接用跨境支付來做這個可以嗎"},{"start":12846.274,"end":12862.343,"text":"沒問題因為我們的電子工會剛成立我們就請他來好好研議這個模式三個方式第一個政府的政策政府政策當然要確定如果要從實驗性質開始從今下來實驗開始也是一個方法小範圍內你看"},{"start":12866.152,"end":12885.237,"text":"我們這裡的電子支付廠商就可以使用這些電子台灣人到大陸去就可以使用不用再去下載他的就是民眾的便利性那大陸人來也不用來用什麼微信讓微信支付到處都是不用就用我們的什麼接口啊LINE啊什麼這一類的各式各樣的對啊 除了便利性還有"},{"start":12885.737,"end":12908.444,"text":"還有很多國人關心的資料安全性是 那這個部分也是要你們來 政府也要來做包括隱私 區塊鏈的存證 數據驗證中心什麼這些還有個資法 數據安全法這些都是要注意的兩岸的相關法規也要做來做一個相關的一些監理的接口那這個部分就是"},{"start":12910.024,"end":12936.691,"text":"兩岸的這個實驗區這個部分就可以來做可以嗎對我們請那個電子工會針對剛剛委員提到這樣那個比如支付從民眾便利性跟資料安全性的角度來看請他們演繹這樣的一個什麼方案好演繹出一個方法政策上當然你們也要支持啦因為也是要上位的政策支持然後法規部分法規面如果有什麼需要修改的或什麼需要兩岸來做一些溝通的話這些我們也有我們能做我們也會協助啦"},{"start":12937.231,"end":12963.803,"text":"我們也會如果涉及到其他部會我們再去對那大概這個時間大概要多久呢我跟你講我們請電資公會延以後看他要大概多久再跟委員報告對請電資公會你們還是那是哪個單位負責呢銀行局啊也是銀行局負責是不是對因為電資是銀行局那政策部分是你們這邊嘛那落實到具體的話是財經公司嗎還是這個延慶院啊是哪個單位在處理這個事情如果你想了解"},{"start":12965.064,"end":12990.223,"text":"應該跟財經公司有財經公司是央行的那是不是你們跨部會我想說我們先對未來的這個現況瞭解再怎麼樣執行才會帶出是什麼單位相關要做一些調整好 那多久的時間可以給我一個這樣的答案啊等於說我現在就是可以請他研議看看就是說因為我這有上次就問過了也不是第一次問了對 但是我們就是已經請他們再做這個研議"},{"start":12991.164,"end":13009.495,"text":"我會請銀行局先去了解他大概現在的進程時程再跟委員報告好多久會給我知道答案啊已經我上次問過已經半年前問過了多久可以給我答案呢下禮拜我們辦公室來跟我們討論相關的這個進程好謝謝下一位請鄭正前委員"},{"start":13028.164,"end":13031.457,"text":"謝主席我想請一下彭金榮彭主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":13036.483,"end":13059.733,"text":"主委好金融科技很蓬勃跟著金融科技蓬勃發展之後會碰到一個大家消費者都很關心的問題就是個資安全的一個問題因為最近有好幾件大型企業資安事件接連爆發造成社會大眾不安但是只要有沒有外流主管機關有沒有能力在第一時間介入管控風險保護消費者大家都非常的關心"},{"start":13060.473,"end":13087.872,"text":"目前有兩個很大的相關的案件一個是藉口支付主管機關就是金管會另外一個是庫篷庫篷的主管機關的時候是數位發展部就是不太一樣因為一個是第三方支付那麼一個是電商確實性質不一樣可是重點是他們都出現了讓消費者民眾非常擔心的個資外洩的一個問題主委對這部分應該很理解對不對"},{"start":13088.772,"end":13105.455,"text":"當然所有金融機構各自外洩都是我們重大事件他要第一時間通報然後讓我們掌握這個現況還有根據他的影響程度要跟我們做了解那我們會對這件事情包括剛剛委員提到的案子其實我們也都有第一時間做非常深入的了解"},{"start":13105.675,"end":13124.02,"text":"所以第一時間金融機構的個資外洩問題都非常的嚴重對不對可是我們看到了在113年9月的時候接口支付也曾經出現個資相關的一個問題結果就是金管會銀行局這邊裁罰兩萬元只裁罰兩萬元那今天是不是"},{"start":13125.908,"end":13144.286,"text":"裁罰過期讓監獄只是流於形式所以一年之後就出現了一個接口支付疑似有六百萬筆的個資外洩包括銀行資料包括身份證資料而裡面很多名人甚至包括可能有很多我們的立法委員也都在"},{"start":13144.967,"end":13165.801,"text":"被洩露的名單當中針對這個部分的時候我想請教一下金管局主委針對這個有資安前科的電子支付業者我們是不是有加強監管那針對去年發生年底發生這個疑似六百萬筆的個資外洩的事情的時候金管會做了哪些事情可不可以請主委做個詳細的說明"},{"start":13167.318,"end":13194.262,"text":"我想當然那個剛剛的裁罰是一定是依法的那個額度來裁罰我想這部分是啊 2到20萬我們就採取最便宜的2萬對 所以就依法實在都沒有問題可是我只是在想說既然有這樣的事件的時候那一年的時間的時候又出現了一個600萬筆的個資外洩的部分那我們去年年底的時候個資法修法所已經很清楚要求業者在"},{"start":13194.622,"end":13206.095,"text":"在芝西這個事故之後必須履行通知當事人還有通報主管機關現在通報主管機關可是他們有沒有通知當事人針對這個部分金管會這邊有沒有給他們做很具體的要求"},{"start":13207.125,"end":13233.647,"text":"各位委員報告那個處分兩萬塊的部分是另外一個案件理解會依照相關的一個這個輕重程度我們施以不同程度的行政處罰那這個個案我們目前還在處理當中那至於委員剛才這邊有垂詢到說有沒有通知相關的這個當事人就我們接口吃貨給我們的報告是有的他們有通知這六百萬個當事人數量沒有那麼多因為這個部分他們通知了多少人通知了誰"},{"start":13235.084,"end":13256.307,"text":"就是民眾有在因為他的這個我為什麼會特別提到這個部分因為當事情發生的時候其實每個企業都說他們已經做好了相關的問題處理而且覺得影響不大沒有問題就像接口支付他這邊也提到說他們在事情發生的時候資料已經加密有浮水印不會再被利用"},{"start":13256.787,"end":13272.947,"text":"可是問題是各自外線就會牽涉到後續詐騙的一個問題那企業這樣講的時候我們主管單位是不是就買單我直接把酷朋的案子來跟我們金口支付的案子直接做一個處理因為酷朋這案子他們一開始他們也是表示說沒有涉及台灣用戶"},{"start":13274.729,"end":13295.054,"text":"結果他們直接找了第三方支付第三方的一個公證單位的時候去做一個調查發現有涉及台灣20多萬筆的一個台灣民眾的個資外洩於是88天之後他們又改口承認有個資外洩而且提出補償那速發部他們也要求"},{"start":13298.34,"end":13320.239,"text":"庫篷要聯絡所有的當事人而且提供他們相應的一個補償那我們金管會主管的接口支付做了哪些事情600萬比到現在的時候我看不出我們金管會到底做了哪些的一個懲處那如果說在調查當中的時候我們有沒有要求第三方的公正單位來進行調查有獨立的鑑識報告"},{"start":13323.181,"end":13345.418,"text":"跟委員報告就是在民眾權益保護的部分接口的回覆目前是有針對相關的個案有通知而且有進行相關的補償所以企業回應已經都沒有問題嘛可是我這邊要直接講到為什麼有特別要庫蓬的案子拿出來庫蓬他們講出來之後88天之後就發現企業一開始講的是錯的那儘管會現在你今天你還在跟我講說企業怎麼講企業怎麼講重點是我們儘管會怎麼錯好不好"},{"start":13349.221,"end":13371.745,"text":"主席站起來了我不要耽誤太多的時間請金管會這邊後續把針對接口支付發生的各自疑似外洩之後金管會做了哪些事情接下來要做哪些事情到本辦公室做一個很詳細的一個說明好不好沒有問題 謝謝好 謝謝下一位楊江銘議員已經提出書面質詢再來"},{"start":13376.904,"end":13385.974,"text":"蘇清泉委員質詢蘇清泉委員質詢蘇清泉委員不在請林竹英委員質詢林竹英委員林竹英委員不在"},{"start":13387.168,"end":13412.177,"text":"今日登記發言委員均與詢答完畢本次會議作如下決議報告及詢答完畢委員質詢為其答覆或請補充資訊請經管會於週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其所定委員楊瓊英所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關部會議書面答覆本次會議紀錄"},{"start":13414.127,"end":13424.999,"text":"本市會議議程已進行完畢 堂友不在場委員補題書面資料一併列入記錄 刊登公報 並請議事人員協助處理現在散會"},{"start":13447.322,"end":13456.669,"text":"好吃嗎好吃"},{"start":13487.858,"end":13497.207,"text":"中文字幕 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宣讀本會期本會召集委員選舉人名冊選舉事項選舉第十一屆第五會期本會召集委員主席宣告推選翁委員小林莊委員瑞雄為立法院第十一屆第五會期司法及法制委員會召集委員宣讀完畢"},{"start":1570.281,"end":1589.188,"text":"請問各位委員上次會議的議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏沒有的話那麼我們議事錄就確定那麼現在我先介紹今天到場的委員以及應邀列席的官員首先我們這裡有吳宗憲委員還有陳道志委員"},{"start":1590.575,"end":1613.336,"text":"好 謝謝 然後今天列席的官員有鄭明謙部長還有法務部的政次謀信吳次長法務部調查局的副局長吳富梅還有法務部行政執行署的廟卓然署長法務部廉政署的謝明貫署長還有法務部矯正署的林憲明署長"},{"start":1614.69,"end":1641.063,"text":"好 那其餘的列席官員本席就不再一一介紹了會列入公報記錄那本次會議的排定是週三週四兩天一次會我們就先進行今天的議程首先我們先邀請防務部正部長帥叔叔主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫並被質詢有請正部長那報告時間就以五分鐘為限好 謝謝"},{"start":1645.627,"end":1670.494,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士 先生 各位同仁 大家早安 大家好那今日應貴委員會邀請率法務部團隊進行業務報告並被質詢 以下則要報告進行指教那本部中央的施政的一個重點第一就是持續推動武打其安 安定秩序守護公寓修正扎西犯罪危害防治條例提高"},{"start":1671.098,"end":1681.161,"text":"刑法強化犯罪被害補償 增訂犯罪禁止管制檔 並持續推動打詐綱領2.0 114年查緝詐欺團數之分類指標達成率為141.1%大幅超標解114年電信詐欺及人頭詐戶 行說案件數與113年比較曾下降趨勢 其中人頭詐戶約下降近兩成且其佔電信詐欺案件比"},{"start":1698.166,"end":1716.804,"text":"一百一十二年最高峰比較到下降近三成顯著像政府打炸策略一鍵初步的一個成效那再來就是推動清世代反毒策略行動綱領執行十三波的案具企圖專案向下刨根挖掘食用黑素避免毒害的擴大推動科技"},{"start":1718.145,"end":1734.432,"text":"偵查電信網路詐欺經濟金融不法案件打擊黑幫組織食安局利潤犯罪等安定經濟秩序以社會安全防止破壞國土保育再來就是法治這一部分修正刑法無期徒刑徹甲執行殘刑及特殊狀況"},{"start":1735.952,"end":1762.127,"text":"不得繳釋等規定已經大院三讀通過至115年3月14日施行再就是國家安全法這部分有強化國家安全法規的一個密度你去知恐防治法完備知恐及知恐的法制以上修法經經行政院的審議審查通過送請大院來審理那進行國民法官性質作為因應115年除少年刑事"},{"start":1763.027,"end":1788.306,"text":"案件及毒品案件外最新本行為10年以上有機毒品案件一適用國民法官法的挑戰那另外調整數據官增資專業甲級從4700元增至6070元那再來就是接軌國際廉政的趨勢提升廉政治理成效那2025年全球青年印象指數的排名台灣排名第24名分之68分"},{"start":1789.407,"end":1810.927,"text":"在全球182個國家地區中我們是佔比是前六分之一的運聲的一個譯名或是提升一分都是史上最好的成績那推動聯合國反貪污公約住址審查機制於2015年8月間舉行第三次國家報告國際審查回應接軌全球反貪污趨勢與國際法制"},{"start":1813.149,"end":1836.522,"text":"那積極建制階幣者保護法相關配套措施及施行細則那再來就是人權保障措施這部分呢也籌辦兩公會 第四是國家報告國際審查會議預計在今年5月11日這15日舉行那另外辦理貧富威權統治十起國家不法案件促進轉型正義條例中勢北及處置加害者事項進行研修"},{"start":1837.863,"end":1862.38,"text":"另外在研擬建構多元的一個處域強化預證管理的一個成效研擬掃腳效實施條例掃關鎖的處域實施條例推動收容人熱領健康照護的計畫提供高齡身心障礙收容人友善的一個環境那另外柔性施法這部分全面推動犯罪被害補償新制擴展醫療關懷聯盟保護的一個服務目前已經有56位醫師"},{"start":1868.164,"end":1881.093,"text":"呃相關的工會及1660個醫療院所來合作來減免醫療掛號的等支出那另外再提升耕寶服務量能擴大耕寶事業群網絡銜接執訊與就業醫事呢有69家優質企業廠商及3家自營商參與了"},{"start":1888.718,"end":1911.971,"text":"另外在司法付諸這部分完成台英第三屆受刑的移交案件強化打擊跨國組織犯罪、虛擬資產犯罪及追討不法所得的國際交流調查者積極偵辦中資企業在台挖角防護國家關鍵技術與機密強化國家四大安全防護防止邊境敵對勢力的滲透"},{"start":1914.152,"end":1939.349,"text":"面臨疫情時代 本部呼應總統傑出的民主台灣 經濟台灣 任性台灣為主的三大國家發展策略創新思維 深化打擊犯罪能量 推動人權保障及轉型正義建構矯正階段性的處理 行使溫暖有感的柔性司法 剛柔並濟完善行政執行程序 強化國家防護"},{"start":1940.59,"end":1950.303,"text":"機制讓青年台灣世界同步其能透過公式協力維護司法威信守護台灣民主保障國人的安全與福祉以上報告 敬請各位委員指教 謝謝"},{"start":1954.838,"end":1976.937,"text":"好 謝謝政務長 時間掌握得非常好很辛苦了那麼接下來我們就先開始進行詢答那本會委員的時間原則上為8分鐘必要時候得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答的時間為5分鐘並不再延長那麼我們上午10點半就截止發言登記首先我們先請登記第一位的吳宗憲委員發言 謝謝"},{"start":1982.18,"end":1992.886,"text":"好 謝謝麻煩部長還有廉政署署長兩位早安有請部長還有廉政署署長好"},{"start":1996.328,"end":2018.654,"text":"好兩位早安部長署長今天的業務報告我看你們報告裡面有提到114年整合型的專案清查的成果那貪瀆線鎖48件含送一般非法是100件那我想請問一下我先請問第一個問題你們自己有寫到清查的主題包括公有財務的保管處分對不對這是你們清查的範圍嗎是不是是"},{"start":2021.778,"end":2049.132,"text":"這部分是一定是有包括公有財務的一個管理那部長這公務車的公有財務的使用管理集合啊這個是不是廉政署的政風體系他應該要做的督導還有防弊的職責的確是這個一個督導我們會做一個專案的一個清查另外那個廉政署其實在去年的7月3日有訂立公務車使用管理廉政職員謝謝政風機構來協助"},{"start":2051.513,"end":2079.945,"text":"那我想請問一下你們這次的報告貪瀆線所38件裡面有沒有包括到監委私用公務車這38件有沒有包含到監委私用公務車有沒有哪一位可以給署長或部長提示的這部分是不是請廉政署來可以趕快說明一下嗎這一部分台北地檢署已經在偵辦中"},{"start":2080.987,"end":2088.361,"text":"我是說正風系統因為署長那個你是正風嘛正風系統有沒有正在38件裡面有沒有正在38件裡面"},{"start":2093.358,"end":2117.631,"text":"38件裡面沒有那這樣子很奇怪因為我知道當然監察院他的紀律委員會有調查那這樣子的話這個政風不用介入調查因為您剛剛你們有說公有財務的保管處分也是政風體系要調查業務範圍內可是這次38件的線索裡面卻沒有跟監察委員使用公務車有關"},{"start":2118.351,"end":2145.626,"text":"那這個監察院的政風系 政風人員那不是就沒有存在的價值嗎 署長那這部分我們了解看看當然那個監察院他自己對公務員本身他的連結監察院也有職責去調查紀律委員會嘛 署長做的紀律委員會那我的意思是這樣 因為你們剛剛有提到政風 公有財務的保管處分這個是政風要管的"},{"start":2146.306,"end":2172.799,"text":"那但是在這一次裡面卻沒有任何一個案子跟這些監委有關但是從監察院2月6號的新聞稿裡面他有提到幾個他說林玉榮委員用公務車到機場接送親友他要求口頭跟書面道歉那王榮章委員他搭公務車去理髮要促請他注意那蘇麗瓊委員去看牙醫搭公務車那他們認為說因為還要回來上班所以這個難以苛責啦"},{"start":2176.241,"end":2201.529,"text":"那我的意思是說紀律委員會有做他的職責有去調查沒有錯但是政風卻完全沒有管因為這兩個是不同體系你政風不能不調查因為不是所有的機關都有紀律委員會監察院有其他機關沒有我回過頭來要講的就是一個很重要的點就是那如果沒有的話那如果依照監察院的紀律委員會告訴大家的結果是我只要"},{"start":2202.6,"end":2218.025,"text":"去搭公務車去看個牙齒然後等一下只要再回來上班那這個部分呢就沒有問題那是不是全國的公務員可以比照辦理那全國的政風也不用去查這個事是不是署長您的意思呢"},{"start":2219.178,"end":2230.685,"text":"跟委員報告 廉政署在114年7月3號他有訂定一個公務車使用管理廉政的指引我們已經有發函各政風單位 協助機關來檢視了解公務車的使用有沒有什麼樣的一個風險來加強控管"},{"start":2238.775,"end":2253.741,"text":"所以我的意思是這樣啦齁我剛剛提了幾個點第一個監察院的陣風並沒有讓我看到他有真的在查這件事情所以我要了解的是那他的監察院的陣風他存在的價值在哪裡還是他就不做事了這第一個"},{"start":2254.281,"end":2275.154,"text":"第二個就是說如果依照監察院他們對自己的要求他寬以律己的要求認為呢你搭公務車去理髮就促請他注意那你搭公務車去看牙齒等一下如果有回來上班這個就沒問題不用苛責那如果這一套標準如果是的話那我們將來是不是我們要告訴我們全國的政風"},{"start":2275.894,"end":2301.596,"text":"人員說這個這套標準是這樣所以以後全國的公務員大大小小公務員你只要搭公務車出去看個牙齒回來繼續上班就沒有關係因為我要的是標準我不是苛責這個我不是找這些監委麻煩我也不是苛責我只是說全國你要有同一套標準不能說我面對自己的面對高官的時候我的標準非常的寬但是如果今天一個基層的檢察官他坐公務車去看牙齒再回來繼續寫書類"},{"start":2303.157,"end":2327.089,"text":"那就要處分他我的意思只是這樣不能有不一樣的標準但是我在這件事情上面看到似乎有不一樣的標準署長我不知道您的意思怎麼樣因為監察院的紀律委員會已經這樣子做出結論了那監察院的政風也沒有調查那我不知道您轄下的各機關的政風將來遇到這個事你會要他管還是要他不管"},{"start":2328.34,"end":2344.478,"text":"委員報告 剛剛有報全國我們就是依公務車使用管理廉政指引這個來控管那另外在監察院政風的部分他有進行已經進行內部的集合他因為本身也掌管公務員的官僧"},{"start":2345.599,"end":2360.708,"text":"那你那個指引有包括要怎麼樣處理嗎有 全國都有這樣好了啦我想這部分是不是麻煩您在一個月內能夠回覆一下回覆給我監察院政風體系到底有沒有喪失功能"},{"start":2362.377,"end":2387.299,"text":"這個部分可以回覆我一下你們要跟我們講為什麼這次監察院的政務體系沒有啟動調查這是第一個第二個公務車的部分你們的指引會不會跟監察院紀律委員會的結論矛盾會不會監察院紀律委員會說監察委員都不用處理但是全國的公務員你要被處分好不好這部分麻煩你一個月回覆第二個我請調查局跟年證署也一起上來備詢"},{"start":2389.48,"end":2415.074,"text":"我請教一下 因為我現在講一個一年前發生的案子那因為這跟毒品也有關係有一個零性男子毒駕撞死的一個老師那後來被發現他是在吸食那個殭屍煙袋那法務部這次給我們的業務報告也寫得很清楚114年第13波查緝毒品的專案裡面就有說依托彌子他列為查緝的重點"},{"start":2416.555,"end":2444.301,"text":"所以法務部早就知道這個東西他已經進入社會而且他會上路會出人命所以法務部才會加強的管理那我想第一個我先請教部長這個被告他是毒品列管的人口也有毒品前科也有重傷害前科那現在被羈押了我想問這種人可以開車上路那等於被政府放生嘛那全民會說那到底政府在哪裡問題出在哪裡部長"},{"start":2445.982,"end":2471.745,"text":"這個管理上面是不是有問題啊這個獨駕的我也很重視啦那我想我們都是對獨駕是零容忍尤其還有肇事那這部分獨駕的確引起最近有些獨駕案件造成人命得意的傷害引起社會很大的關注所以我們這部分基層的檢察官在懲罰前我們都是會速查嚴辦所以我們說這部分會生壓那基本法院也都很支持部長"},{"start":2472.845,"end":2490.854,"text":"這講這個都沒有問題基層檢察官都非常辛苦我那些老同事常常都打電話跟我跟我在那邊抱怨很多事所以我很清楚但是喔我現在要講的是另外一個問題我知道獨駕上路不是只有法務部的責任跟警察跟交通部的法規都有關聯性但是呢"},{"start":2491.434,"end":2514.502,"text":"我從去年10月我曾經質詢過苗栗隨機殺人案我在那個案子的時候我已經有提過一個點就是法務部我們有很多預算是讓法務部去管理整個前科表或一些資料那些資料本來是可以去做一些預防或高風險的評估就像一些金融他們有一些什麼紅旗警訊等等的把某些人可以列為一些高風險"},{"start":2516.463,"end":2537.012,"text":"防護部的系統本來就有毒品人口他出監前的轉嫌啊社區追蹤輔導更生保護關戶還有毒品那個防治中心還有一些資料銜接的這些資源都在你們手上所以你們對於這些高風險的人口其實你們是能掌握的那從去年10月我就一直說"},{"start":2538.772,"end":2557.343,"text":"從隨機殺人案我們可以看到這些資料法務部有法務部有沒有辦法去跟其他的單位能夠大家一起串聯起來看看可不可以對這些高風險的人口能夠多做一些管制譬如說我先提幾個我個人的淺見對於那些高風險的人口譬如說一些獨家"},{"start":2558.624,"end":2583.618,"text":"毒品人口 重大暴力犯罪的人我們對於這些族群我們有沒有建立一個跨單位的轉介跟追蹤的機制存在再來一線執法的一些科技設備譬如說監視器 車牌辨識系統車輛互聯網等等的這些東西有沒有利用這些來做一些預防還有你們有沒有去看這些出獄之後"},{"start":2585.439,"end":2605.379,"text":"再犯率就業率還有那個治療完成率這些一起綜合的評估去知道誰是重大風險者因為法務部你必須做到前端的預防中端的查緝跟末端的矯正啊你們到底從去年10月到現在你們有沒有哪一套系統或哪一個機制真的建立起來能夠做這個預防"},{"start":2608.219,"end":2625.623,"text":"跟委員報告事實上他提到的這就是以後前科的資料就是涉及到一個特種的一個個資那我們想這部分我們本部會再研立要找那個委員的一些寶貴的一些去年十月我已經提過就從隨機殺讓我就提過因為我還是這麼認為因為我第一線出"},{"start":2629.504,"end":2646.811,"text":"實務出來的嘛因為制度如果只剩下紙上文書啊那人民的感覺就會覺得被政府放生了他安全沒有得到保障他們會害怕所以我才會說是不是可以把這些資料綜合起來我們做一個誰是高風險者的預先預先能夠把這些"},{"start":2648.491,"end":2664.34,"text":"這些悲劇我們把它預防掉因為跟部長報告羈押只能安撫今天人民的憤怒你們把它押起來沒錯安撫了憤怒而已但是你只有把這套制度建立起來你才能夠預防下一次的遺憾發生"},{"start":2665.3,"end":2682.852,"text":"所以我們的政府的存在是要讓人民幸福而不是只是演給人民看而已所以我還是拜託部長因為這些數據這些資料都在貴部的手上是不是可以麻煩貴部能夠像我剛剛講的那幾個點能夠把它做好建立起一套"},{"start":2683.692,"end":2710.049,"text":"那個預警的機制然後對這些人能夠去控管需要相關的修法你都可以跟我們講立法院這邊全力的配合人民要的是安全耶人民不是要看這個人被關幾年耶那個對人民沒有用啊這個老師被撞死他家家屬痛不欲生啊他們在乎的是這個他不是在乎這個人會不會被羈押啦好不好部長再麻煩你這段那可不可以兩個月內給我一份初步的"},{"start":2710.629,"end":2714.693,"text":"你們的流程要怎麼走 好不好 兩個月這個時間蠻長 兩個月給我一下那最後 兩分鐘我還是跟部長談一下那個無期徒刑這個問題啦 假設撤銷這個因為我還是要再提一個"},{"start":2731.403,"end":2756.757,"text":"這個2013年宪判2號這個宣告無期徒刑的假釋犯那當時在宪判制的時候依照現有的制度當時大法官就已經說3月14號是最後修法的期限如果沒有過的話就是你們貴部也是公開說這些無期徒刑犯可能會被放回社會這是貴部講的嘛但是呢你們的這個流程其實速度我其實是存疑的啦因為"},{"start":2757.932,"end":2769.197,"text":"大法官給的是兩年是24個月但是呢你們司法那個那個行政院他卻到最後剩下三個月才送到"},{"start":2770.253,"end":2791.542,"text":"立法院而且這三個月裡面我們今年是沒有休會我知道但是依照過往的制度12月31號就休會了等於你們12月3號送到立法院如果依照過往的制度有兩個月休會你只剩下一個月要處理整個三讀的流程那今年雖然沒有休會但是你12月3號送進來之後"},{"start":2793.769,"end":2816.427,"text":"結果也沒有人來跟召委報告說這個要優先凡要趕快審都沒有啊所以大家都不知道那你們也沒有爭取要優先討論也沒有主動跟黨團說有這個案子其實這個跟過往的做法都不一樣過往因為修法是貴部主責嘛那過往貴部如果有發現一個案子很緊急他會趕快跟"},{"start":2817.968,"end":2845,"text":"趙偉說趕快跟黨團說然後我們才急著把這個東西處理好結果這次都沒有結果到最後剩下幾天我們才知道有這件事情然後才緊急的幾天內趕快進附二讀趕快給他通過雖然這個修法我們三黨都支持但是這個程序上面我覺得是不是要跟同仁溝通你這對很多立委都對這件事情不滿最後跟部長報告這件事情"},{"start":2847.302,"end":2859.899,"text":"24個月就行政院搞了21個月才送出來剩下三個月的時間裡面還有過年還有原本以前是休會的期間硬的三讀就大家連討論也沒辦法也沒有時間討論什麼都沒有討論"},{"start":2862.563,"end":2887.017,"text":"剩下幾天硬給他通過因為我們也擔心這些無期徒刑犯放回社會對社會安全造成的影響所以大家就有共識趕快給他過所以我的意思只是這樣是不是以後像這種重大跟民生有關緊急的事情你們可以送來之後趕快跟黨團說跟召委說然後爭取優先排案讓我們趕快審查我們才有時間討論好不好這部分麻煩部長"},{"start":2888.517,"end":2913.508,"text":"這個謝謝委員各黨團修法完成謝謝這麻煩你要講因為檢察官辦案都有辦案期限啊三個月沒進行還會被長官電啊這我們都知道嘛那不能說這樣子你只有三位送進來然後我們根本立委其實立委對這一個案子其實還蠻反彈的我不管藍綠其實對這個為什麼剩下那麼短時間都很有意見好不好跟部長報告這個事情好就這樣好謝謝部長"},{"start":2916.012,"end":2937.545,"text":"謝謝吳委員這邊也要提醒法務部回去再檢視一下看看有沒有哪些大法官宣告說幾年真的要修法的然後法務部這裡到目前為止還沒有提出修法案麻煩回去盤點一下好不好到底有哪些法案是有時效的期間要儘速提到司委會來謝謝"},{"start":2942.073,"end":2946.377,"text":"好 那接下來我們有請陳昭芝委員發言 謝謝也很歡迎陳昭芝委員加入我們四委會謝謝 謝謝主席有請部長 鄭部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":2964.621,"end":2983.556,"text":"部長早安部長早部長你看到我今天的題目詐騙集團比法務部更懂得利用刑法因為刑法是由法務部由你們來主管那我會形容詐騙某一些領域他的犯罪他的罪犯是在跟法務部賽跑"},{"start":2984.136,"end":2992.279,"text":"但是我覺得詐騙集團這個部分,顯然法務部落後了很多好,那我今天就是要跟部長來談這個詐騙集團的部分部長,2024年卓院長上任,他講的這個口號,鄭天祥你看看,你看看右邊,他說我會讓詐騙想騙的不敢騙,已經騙的會被抓"},{"start":3007.705,"end":3031.689,"text":"已經到手的梅德花信誓旦旦讓全民宣誓就是說國家這個打詐隊要有這個決心但是兩年過去了法務部身為打詐這個國家隊的一個重要成員有讓我們看到成效嗎現在我們的感覺就是想詐騙的繼續騙已經騙到的不一定會被抓騙到手的大筆花"},{"start":3037.014,"end":3049.804,"text":"部長整個司法系統無論是警察無論是檢察官或是法官我知道都被這些詐騙案件簡直是癱瘓掉了部長您覺得是哪些環節出了問題呢"},{"start":3052.871,"end":3081.369,"text":"跟委員報告其實這個一個打架打炸的一個國家隊那個成立就是說我們在行政院有一個打炸的一個指揮中心那法務部也有一個打炸的一個小組麻煩部長更簡要的就是說您覺得哪些環節出我認為是我們這個打架國家隊的一個大家的一個努力事實上這是有成效的因為我們可以看出來一個指標就是打炸"},{"start":3082.129,"end":3105.579,"text":"一個儀表板的一個數據齁那在今年二月齁上個月齁其實較去年同期已經顯著的下降所以這個是有成效的受理件數已經降了27.6%財損的金額降了23%部長謝謝你因為您提的數字齁等一下我有別的數字也要一起跟您討論對那我想這個是一個一個最最精準的一個數字那整個新收的件數那因為我們查獲的兆頭我們查獲得增加了"},{"start":3107.64,"end":3114.245,"text":"增加了那個那個查獲的兆團3903件的比去年那個那個成長很多也就是說我們這個氣焰這個氣焰油壓下去壓下去那另外那個查獲的利得那個"},{"start":3124.452,"end":3129.655,"text":"歷得了也330億那透過偵查中的調解到56億我也是這一組新手謝謝部長的說明因為政府宣稱要抓這個騙子結果抓到的往往是我今天指的是打架的部分往往抓到就是被找去當車手的孩子"},{"start":3142.262,"end":3149.608,"text":"我們來看看這個在令人心驚膽戰的數字請部長參考這是2024年警政的統計官方是最後9月到12月4個月全台灣抓了5123名的少年的嫌犯部長你知道當中有多少年輕人是被打詐欺團黑化了嗎就是說有多少是涉及詐欺你有這個數字嗎"},{"start":3165.048,"end":3171.15,"text":"這部分因為這是少年事件有人知道嗎?5123名少年罪犯當中有多少是跟詐欺有關的嗎?跟委員報告因為這個少年的事件是屬於司法院主管所以要問司法院的數據就會精準我來告訴部長是有超過三分之一是34.37就是有1761名的詐欺少年我要跟部長講的是更離譜的"},{"start":3191.218,"end":3210.936,"text":"高達72.63%都是在第一線擋子站的車手當少年把日領、面膠這種當作暑假打工的一個工具請問部長 法務部除了宣導除了告訴孩子們說你們要負的法律責任之外這些孩子一旦留下前科"},{"start":3212.179,"end":3240.056,"text":"他甚至可能要附帶這個做民事賠償的這個連帶的這個賠償他們的人生等於還沒有開始就毀了耶部長這個數字您不知道我來告訴你三分之一的少年嫌犯是涉及煞車其中73%是當車手我想我都跟那個委員的立場都一致非常關心少年的一個被詐團的利用那事實上我們這個法律我們這次詐毀條例有修法就是"},{"start":3240.492,"end":3258.343,"text":"教所幫助利用少年來共犯詐欺罪有加重刑責二分之一那其實這個委員有關心這個跟少女事件處理法這就是司法院處管的法規那這份據我了解因為司法院對少女事件處理法這部分對少年的這部分"},{"start":3258.943,"end":3276.128,"text":"的這些犯罪的一個問題尤其我想這個司法院有做一個會檢討的營利謝謝部長講的加重刑法但我今天有另外的觀點我前面提到的是少年掉進這個詐騙集團他的陷阱困境但是從新聞我們又發現詐騙罪犯往往只抓得到車手"},{"start":3278.389,"end":3295.598,"text":"請問警察同仁這麼辛苦每年抓了大概上萬名的車手那為什麼詐騙事件還是跟蟑螂一樣抓不完打不死部長知道基層的警員跟這個檢察官他們最感到無力的部分是什麼嗎你可不可以很簡單的講他們覺得最無力的部分是什麼"},{"start":3297.776,"end":3321.845,"text":"就一個觀點我想這個大家都很辛苦啦不是只有警察辛苦警察辛苦我們真的是勞苦公關我們要以很大的他們趕到無力的點你有去了解嗎謝謝那我想我們辦案的團內不是只有警察還有檢察官還有我們調查局的同仁都非常的一個辛苦那我想大家一起努力也不要去因為詐騙的我等一下再給你繼續看數字啦"},{"start":3323.826,"end":3348.096,"text":"然後我想兆團經過大家的努力從那個跨機關的合作還有公司的協力我想這部分兆團這部分公司有氣焰最高的限我們把它壓下來而且反轉的趨勢這個詐騙集團把少年當作什麼呢黑幫免洗快的一個斷點我們抓到的永遠是冰山一角你花了這麼多的人力去打擊這個罪犯但對這些少年而說他們都是免洗快用過即丟"},{"start":3349.917,"end":3365.436,"text":"請問法務部這些躲在少年背後的成年主嫌,你現在有沒有更強硬的方法?有嗎?有或沒有?細節我可以不太記得,你有沒有去想過對這個背後的主嫌犯,路過更強硬的方法?"},{"start":3370.025,"end":3384.741,"text":"檢警說在抓這個少年後面的我們向他說有後面的操作的這些集團這些的組謀那我們希望透過這些少年事件處理法以及現在的一個機制我們看能不能拿到少年能夠做少年的筆錄"},{"start":3385.382,"end":3389.585,"text":"但是很多委員包括我們現在對少年的比喻我們現在沒辦法做少年的比喻所以這個很重要我後面很多重要的數字那另外我們也跟那個我們各地檢署也跟法院這邊也做一個協調是不是說少年可以給我們獲得這個比喻可以給我們我們會追溯上面把這些可惡的這些幕後的這些集團給揪出來"},{"start":3406.016,"end":3410.84,"text":"你看這個你們會說一定有在努力啦你看看這個法務部的數據你看這個法務部的數據喔這個不包含高檢署都是近三年來從各地地檢署的這個受理這個詐欺罪案案件被告他申請定職時刑"},{"start":3421.307,"end":3425.69,"text":"的一個件數你看2023年是3109件2023年是3508件到了去年是達到4340件六都的地方這個件數連年攀升那其中這個台中的地檢署增加的最快你看這個橘黃色的這個部分所以說定因執行的這個被當作詐團集團的招募人才的工具啦"},{"start":3446.141,"end":3453.366,"text":"一方面檢察官也累壞了法官也累壞了因為工作量太大部長你知道詐騙集團現在都把這個用定執行制度招攬車手小弟招攬這個犯罪成員嗎所以你看這個大攀升這是個警訊花這麼多時間力氣在追這個詐騙案但是在定執行的制度出了問題部長我給你看三個例子因為時間有限部長這是第一個我找了幾個定執行的這個案例給這個裁定給部長看"},{"start":3475.021,"end":3488.957,"text":"這一張張姓受刑人他這個詐欺犯了42次最後定執行刑事只有三年二個月您覺得合理嗎你暫時先不要問我我想這個是我後面還有更多我想這個是我們是不滿意所以我們要求我們有就宣導"},{"start":3489.838,"end":3493.039,"text":"因為訂執行業是法官訂的所以我們希望法官在訂執行業又具有他的妥當性能夠嚇阻這些早晨的企業所以有跟委員報告所以如果訂執行業像委員這種我們是希望就是也要求檢察官能夠判告能夠糾正這些輕判的這些的現象"},{"start":3510.504,"end":3517.268,"text":"下面這個案子是高院裁定 臨序受刑原本台灣地安法院法官對他做11個詐欺犯罪的判定是8年6個月結果高院說 你看我把它框起來 那是他講的話刑刑恐將偏重過客 不服現代刑事政策及刑罰社會功能第一次犯罪才剛滿18歲 原審就付表各罪組應執行刑違有期徒刑8年6個月 容有過重"},{"start":3534.738,"end":3551.007,"text":"那他雖然認為被告抗告有利啊就改成四年六個月部長你看到這個定執行刑的裁定喔我再給你看這個數字我再看了那個檢察官齁我看檢察官看到法官的這樣八年六個月馬上降到四年六個月我想也是不滿意啦齁那所以因為這個問題齁跟委員報告我們是嚴厲修法宿醉病法定執行這邊修法齁"},{"start":3557.951,"end":3559.493,"text":"台中地院的裁定更誇張黃姓受刑人本來被宣告的刑度總共加起來是11年4個月"},{"start":3579.392,"end":3583.336,"text":"前面幾次都已經定過執行刑了請你看那個編號1349他本來被台中地院定為是三年六個月那編號2567的案件被台北地院定執行刑是一年兩個月最後受刑人又再申請一次把所有的案件一起定執行刑"},{"start":3601.952,"end":3618.985,"text":"三年六個月加一年兩個月本來是四年八個月然後這一次又少了兩個月那變成四年六個月所以這個案子是十一年四個月變成四年六個月部長你不覺得詐騙集團一直在利用司法資源利用司法對他們有利的地方"},{"start":3620.485,"end":3640.994,"text":"在一直犯罪一直申請這個定執行然後定完後因為還有其他案件他又把它加在一起再申請一定再一次一定再定刑度一段不斷的減少這就是我們耗費社會龐大的資源但卻得到這樣的結果難怪詐欺案件一直發生主謀抓不到這個車手抓不完部長這樣子你能接受嗎"},{"start":3646.476,"end":3652.958,"text":"我想這部分這部分的確是不合理不合理那我想這部分各案檢察官會勘告或訴訴那另外我覺得根本解決這部分我們要嚴厲來修法把他做一個比較合理的一個集據讓法官"},{"start":3663.422,"end":3668.827,"text":"在這個比較合理的話我們去做一個裁量我們會把委員這寶貴的一個建議我們會傳給檢討那好好的監督法院的再一個量刑他看準了小孩子 涉事衛生然後想賺快錢 這個是榮譽錢快錢然後又沉迷通訊軟體所以他用很輕鬆 日領 面膠"},{"start":3688.045,"end":3692.309,"text":"這種鬼化當打工 還變成暑期打工用六校園的網絡去做他們職業訓練場這個是成少共犯成年跟少年共犯結構現在變成這個少年嫌犯的主要的這個形態部長告訴我 我跟你講"},{"start":3704.258,"end":3726.064,"text":"很多人跟我說就是現在的生活環境包括這件事他們不敢生孩子也有這件事在裡面原因他說現在孩子除了要學習之外他也要去抵抗教他們如何抵抗這個外界的這個誘惑所以部長就是我的意思說除了宣導你一定要有更強硬的手段斷掉這些伸向校園伸向孩子的這個黑手因為如果任由法律"},{"start":3726.784,"end":3731.508,"text":"去處理這個這個他們會跟孩子說反正判很輕反正沒事最後會沒什麼事孩子們走向沉淪之路那台灣永遠擺脫不了詐欺亡國的這個名稱所以我覺得他們不只是犯罪他們在蠶食精吞台灣的下一代所以部長你可不可以承諾我就是說你對這個定職行刑的一個行動的檢討我是不是可以很快可以有看到你們這樣的一個"},{"start":3752.665,"end":3768.559,"text":"這部分委員報告我想第一我們會嚴厲修法讓法官在訂執行這部分不會像發生像那個委員所提到的那一種的現象這第一點第二點就是在個案還沒完成修法之前我要求檢控要監督法院的一個判決也就是說"},{"start":3769.239,"end":3784.627,"text":"如果定職刑這邊這個是不合理那我們就會看告後上訴來做一個處理那我想委員的聲音我們也會如實的來跟希望我們檢察官能夠再反映在我們在求刑的這部分求刑我們會具體求刑希望法官能夠具體求刑我們再依照我們具體求刑來判你今天說的東西我當時可以看得到"},{"start":3795.233,"end":3816.082,"text":"這個我想我們會把我們的做法我們再做一個書面報告給委員做一個不要太久好嗎就你們的方向等等好嗎我們儘快把我們的一個做法我們也都在學習啦因為我們希望法官能夠聽得到委員寶貴的聲音啦謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝陳委員那接下來我們請林沛翔委員發言也歡迎林沛翔委員加入我們司法委員會"},{"start":3828.427,"end":3850.626,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請鄭部長好 有請鄭部長委員好鄭部長早安目前國人都很關心所謂的兄弟姊妹特留份制度那也是就是所謂的單身條款那本席也在今天的這個法務部的立法計畫第26條有看到這個案子"},{"start":3854.97,"end":3874.378,"text":"包括我在內有許多委員也已經針對兄弟姊妹特留份提出修法的版本希望替國人改善這個制度這個緣由是因為去年底的時候台灣遺囑協會在公共政策網路參與平台上面有提出相關的提案有獲得多達772位民眾的支持跟複議"},{"start":3878.4,"end":3901.951,"text":"那我們也知道說法務部有自己委外研究報告也已經指出現行制度確實有檢討修法的必要性而且有承諾在今年初來啟動修法程序所以我想這邊就請部長來回答第一點請問現在具體修法的進度到哪裡第二個版本出來了嗎法務部的版本出來了嗎"},{"start":3903.59,"end":3931.812,"text":"跟委員報告那的確是在委託研究案就是有關那個繼承篇的委託研究案在去年已經已經完成了那這部分有一些的建立的意見那本部在今年也邀集了學者專家相關的機關團體有召開研修小組就有關於這部分繼承篇的一個修正的這部分有第一次的研修的會的一個討論那我想這部分除了我們這個研修會還有把105年相關的草案的"},{"start":3932.432,"end":3933.935,"text":"能夠把它再做一個檢視"},{"start":3935.407,"end":3964.283,"text":"把這當作修法的一個重要參考那的確委員關心的特留份有關兄弟姊妹這部分的一個特留份的問題我想這是一個重點的一個重點那當然因為各界的意見還是很多我們還要再再做一個更精緻的一個一個一個討論那我想我們希望能夠在今年能夠提出跟立委提出我們會頭要送出法務部然後去年十月我在總質詢的時候提出來是部長也曾經上台喔在幫對我們是希望今年能夠"},{"start":3965.183,"end":3982.436,"text":"那其實應該檢討修正的是民法第1223條第4款然後讓國人能夠真正落實遺囑的自由跟財產自主老師說有一位先輩常常在講這句話叫時空背景不同"},{"start":3983.237,"end":4012.777,"text":"那這句話我覺得對於這一個我們的修法是的確有必要性的畢竟來講五十年前的中華民國跟現在的中華民國整個民情已經變得不一樣而當時不管是您本身還是卓院長都在院會裡面明確回應會與社會各界進行討論跟徵詢但是我也必須要這邊要提說其實社會上為什麼這麼多的共識因為這個事情可能已經慢慢你不能講慢慢而是已經很多人直接影響到他們自己"},{"start":4013.497,"end":4035.323,"text":"所謂的遺組自主跟其他方面的權益了所以說我今天社會討論重點其實很簡單部長我們現在立法院已經有多位委員提出版本那承諾2026初當初你是講2026初啟動修法程序如果有任何至愛難行的地方部長可以直接提出來啊"},{"start":4036.899,"end":4056.419,"text":"好 謝謝 那我想我們現在是啟動修法程序因為這個我們已經開研修小組的會議這就是一個修法程序的一個啟動那的確這個時空的以及家庭形態以及現在的一個背景那我們參佐外國例外像那個現在很多的專家學者一直在提供就是日本那個"},{"start":4057.58,"end":4079.957,"text":"貢獻份的這些的一個制度來取代特留份的這些就是你實際上有付出了多少才有辦法去做一個繼承那這個結合那個遺囑的一個自由的一個制度那我想這部分我們速度我們現在繳成是現在是有一直在加快那我們希望就像委員講的我們一定要廣大社會意見然後達到一個一個平衡"},{"start":4080.237,"end":4095.814,"text":"我也必須在這邊請教部長我希望今天是個理性的討論因為這個事情還蠻重要的那什麼時候保護部一機提出版本時間很重要我們不能一天到晚攜帶立法院全年無休都一天到晚等大家的法案但什麼時候提出版本"},{"start":4097.429,"end":4115.524,"text":"我會講說進化因為我們現在是當然那是因為繼承篇那個是修的弧度蠻大的如果說我們在擠的話我們是可以把那個特留份跟遺囑自由這部分有沒有機會在這個會期會期我們都努力好不好那個因為我們還要再送行政院來審查那我們會"},{"start":4117.535,"end":4134.566,"text":"還要再預告還要再會選所以我一旦失誠我們是盡快去就是說那我想隨時我們跟委員聯絡因為我知道委員很關心這個問題那我們會再跟委員來做一個聯繫讓你能夠掌握這個進度我期待如果法務部的國會聯絡組能夠跟我辦公室盡快獲得聯絡"},{"start":4137.427,"end":4162.776,"text":"剛好我剛看今天出席的人出席的各位官員裡面剛好我們政務次長是黃某興黃次長嘛謝謝黃次長其實我比較好奇的是另外一位政務次長黃士傑黃次長那聽說黃士傑黃次長最近已經被清點去參選桃園市市長那昨天聽說他就已經去開始公開跑行程在上班時間請問這件事部長您知道嗎"},{"start":4164.393,"end":4189.714,"text":"這部分我因為這個是要選市場這是一個報紙有這樣的一個報導有這樣的一個報導我先問一個關鍵問題是他有請假嗎公務時間出去跑行程他有請假嗎我想他有公務行程他就會出去這個是公務行程如果說你去幫桃園的農產品這邊去去參加桃園農產品的行程我有一點不能了解法務部跟桃園的農產品有什麼直接的關聯"},{"start":4190.675,"end":4208.902,"text":"那我想請問說他如果是這樣去跑地方的行程請問部長他有請假嗎這部分我想該請假就會請假那這部分我再來瞭解那第二件事如果說他是這樣子的去針對他未來的仕途去做更進一步的發展"},{"start":4209.608,"end":4225.168,"text":"那請問說以說專業性的考量來講或各方面功能性的考量來講部長他是不是需要先辭職然後才專心的跑行程才對得起我們整個法務部的系統呢"},{"start":4226.412,"end":4246.048,"text":"這部分我們防政務次長他這個有沒有去要參選的這個問題我這部分我還這是媒體的一個報導那我想如果說真的有去決定要去選我想他有他的一個做法因為到目前這都是媒體的一個報導"},{"start":4247.289,"end":4270.147,"text":"我們只是期待說我們都知道法務部都是目前都是很辛苦的因為有很多案子尤其現在這幾年來我們中華民國整個社會上的價值觀整個社會上的觀感其實都一直在變變的時候其實很尷尬就法務部這邊一方面又要讓大家安心一方面又要想辦法說讓這個公務體系能夠正常那這時候每一位"},{"start":4270.908,"end":4283.761,"text":"官員首長的職權都很重要那如果剛好有人有外務然後來去干擾他們本身法務部的好好運行尤其又是到長字輩那我會認為說部長您應該好好考慮說這一個狀況到底這樣適不適合"},{"start":4286.763,"end":4314.802,"text":"再來我們時間有限我想繼續詢問有關這方面其他打炸的事情因為老實講我們聽到國家隊我們都很興奮只有聽到打炸國家隊我們有點頭痛因為老實說打炸其實我們都知道國安危機至少兩大國安危機經濟危機跟少子化危機但是老實講對民眾感觸最深惡痛絕的就是打炸老實講"},{"start":4316.603,"end":4337.156,"text":"去年1月開始實施打詐綱領2.0版本以及打詐新釋法那我想說目的應該是讓民眾有感所以說我想請問部長從去年1月打詐綱領2.0版本上路之後到現在為止台灣民眾遭受詐騙的財損總金額是多少能不能給我一個大約的數字"},{"start":4338.683,"end":4349.666,"text":"那第二個也是說台灣民眾在從去年1月打詐綱領2.0版本上路之後台灣民眾遭詐騙的受理案件總數是多少能不能給我一個數字"},{"start":4353.896,"end":4380.457,"text":"財損總金額在這部分我這邊是有查過的步伐的一個立得的一個資料那當然因為打炸儀表板都有就公佈數據這個是內政部主管的嘛那但是我可以看出我們那個財損的金額事實上整個一個建樹也下降財損金額也只一年從今年二月往回說這一年內跟去年二月比較我們是財損金額也是下降23%"},{"start":4381.378,"end":4399.578,"text":"對不起我要問的是數字不是下降多少數字數字的話我有單列有那今年1月是財損的金額是70億從去年到今年1月我是說這一整年我們財損的數字是多少"},{"start":4399.938,"end":4409.464,"text":"我這邊我再提供給委員但是這是有下降的趨勢我跟部長報告一下去年1月是95億今年1月是70億部長我這邊得到的資料是914億的財損總金額從去年1月到今年1月財損總計的914億相當於什麼相當於我們全國5000大企業中前面的80家到100家"},{"start":4427.756,"end":4441.203,"text":"如果以零售業來講相當於整年的新光三越跟家樂福的營售總額部長您覺得這個數字是高還是低啊當然這個數字還是高但是有下降的反轉的趨勢第二個就是說受理案件的總數"},{"start":4443.884,"end":4456.351,"text":"我們這邊目前辦公室查到是185215這是受理的案件總數沒有受理的可能還不止這個數字所以說這就是回到為什麼我剛剛說民眾覺得打詐"},{"start":4459.213,"end":4476.793,"text":"其實有點像是國安危機因為深惡痛絕感同身受政府一說政策有效但是人民真的有感嗎打炸綱領2.0版本就是希望讓民眾有感但是這個數字跟這感覺出來的時候部長這有點心酸啊"},{"start":4477.972,"end":4499.977,"text":"額 各位辦公室的確齁 打詐啊 我們在一直不予你一利啦齁那我想我們整個辦案團隊以及政府其他的一個機關齁我們都是有跨域的一個整合 一個公司的協力齁其實齁 在去年的話已經從高峰已經下來了 從到112年22萬件到我時間已經快沒了 不過我想請問部長這一個事我覺得這件事講出來 民眾一定很有感那就是說"},{"start":4502.782,"end":4513.807,"text":"在打仗剛剛領2.0版本上路之後到目前為止民眾被詐騙的金額裡面實質成功追回來的金額比例是多少"},{"start":4515.464,"end":4538.693,"text":"追回來的金額比例不是追回來的金額是追回來的金額比例假設說我被騙了一千塊我被追回來八十塊七十塊那百分之七百分之八好像不太對勁但是如果我被騙了一千塊但是被追回來八百五十塊那我就覺得說這政府有感那請問金額比例是多少"},{"start":4541.481,"end":4557.14,"text":"因為這個是現在詐欺的詐騙就是屬於跨國型的有些就直接就傳出去了這個很難追回那我想到這個比例我沒辦法去做一個明確的一個數據但是我們可以說追回來的一個總額我倒是可以提供給委員"},{"start":4558.243,"end":4576.321,"text":"因為這個是跨國型的一個詐騙而且只有洗錢就洗到境外了所以而且現在虛擬的一個貨幣的一個方式這就是為什麼人民對於當然我們在努力人民對於打仗很沒有信心的感覺因為如果說我們聽到的不是直接一個數字"},{"start":4577.862,"end":4584.627,"text":"而是一直說這個錢可能轉到國外去 這個錢可能到別的地方去 這個錢可能到那邊 到那邊您眾會覺得是說 我們的政府在推脫我們這個沒有推脫 這個我們是很努力在去 如果說推脫的話 大家現在都在錄影那我也是身為一個理性討論的情況 我沒有說您推脫"},{"start":4600.78,"end":4628.482,"text":"但是民眾的直接感覺很有可能會覺得說第一時間你跟我講的不是追回來的比例多少而是說這個錢會到哪裡去難免民眾會覺得說不對勁那我也不 我現在時間其實已經到了那我也在這邊要請求部長甚至要求部長是否能夠在未來的打擊詐騙的政策裡面把提高追回金額比例當成政策目標"},{"start":4630.563,"end":4656.122,"text":"可以這樣做嗎提高追回金額比例這個事情如果做得到打詐才人民有感啊跟委員報告其實打詐其實我們對要求就是在偵查審理中的時候因為被害人倒查嘛我們就會是要求那個被告一定要跟那個被害人做一個我家人昨天才被詐騙"},{"start":4658.459,"end":4678.134,"text":"所以說如果連國會而且我一直跟我家人講說什麼事都不要點我家人昨天才被詐騙差一點點差一點點最後面那個驗證碼不出去不然就完蛋了所以像這樣事情發生在你我身邊那我如果說已經發生了麻煩一下打詐要有感"},{"start":4679.056,"end":4698.727,"text":"把錢追回來讓民眾覺得說至少有政府好安心這句話是不是真的這部分跟委員不好我們再努力啦好那剛才我再補充一下剛才委員關心就是我們房屋市檢政部次長有沒有請假問題那我們查的結果就上週都已經事前完成請假手續了就以上的一個補充好謝謝委員"},{"start":4701.485,"end":4711.971,"text":"謝謝沛翔委員的提醒那我可能這邊也請法務部之後可以把就是你們追回來的詐騙金額的比例數字再提供給我們司法委員會參考好嗎"},{"start":4715.751,"end":4736.084,"text":"對就是因為總是應該有比例吧大概總共詐騙金額多少然後實際上追回的詐騙金額然後在就近五年吧近五年我想應該還是會有一些統計數據那就麻煩在你們來就來給我們一份資料好謝謝謝謝鄭部長好那麼接下來我們請林倩琦委員發言好謝謝"},{"start":4745.09,"end":4769.835,"text":"謝謝我們主席 翁昭瑋我這邊先請教我們法務部長謝謝鄭部長部長今天本席這邊 早安幾個大概三項議題跟您做一個請教跟討論那麼第一個部分是關於司法公信力的問題那我們從一個個案看到這邊可能我想要了解一下我們整體的一個狀況"},{"start":4772.075,"end":4793.54,"text":"我這邊的個案是有一位私信的民眾在1008年判刑確定刑期是三年十個月但是判決確定之後五年間沒有執行到了113年才收到執行通知這個當事人在這五年當中也多次主動向法院跟地檢署來詢問執行的進度但是檢查機關沒有動作"},{"start":4797.981,"end":4808.485,"text":"那麼監察院在今年一月也做了一些調查然後它整個調查其實提到的不是一個人的疏忽而已啦而是從分案執行到歸檔那每一個環節都有一些問題包括書記官沒有分案"},{"start":4814.427,"end":4827.173,"text":"執行單位沒有啟動程序那麼股長跟檢察官在歸檔的時候也沒有注意到結果整個流程有點整體失靈所以這邊我想跟部長請教那麼這一件事已經確定了一個刑事判決那怎麼會五年沒有執行那當然監察院有一些調查那麼第二個部分是"},{"start":4835.757,"end":4861.766,"text":"其實也有反映到這個監察院調查的一些結果也就是說地檢署的案量極為龐大那如果這只是被發現的一件有沒有其他還沒有被發現的可能案件呢第三個部分是我們有沒有可能透過這樣一個個案來檢討一下我們內控的機制那未來是不是在內控上在分案的一個複合還有執行的一個追蹤還有歸檔前是不是要再次來確認"},{"start":4864.147,"end":4883.846,"text":"那避免當中有被遺漏的那您對這件事情的看法是如何謝謝委員這個的確施行授信人的確這部分的執行就是有延返到了但是還沒有預約那個行刑權的一個時效所以現在我已經也發現"},{"start":4885.868,"end":4913.114,"text":"也薄掉了那這部分也入監執行在113113年7月10日也入監執行那剛才提到這個有一個疏失的一個問題那這部分那個台中地檢他有評定他有資料科的書記官跟執行科的書記官這邊當然也反映在他的考期上是考期是一等那當然委員關心說是不是有其他的情形那我們也是很注意"},{"start":4914.054,"end":4931.287,"text":"那是不是你們趕快再做一個檢視那如果說有這樣子因為看起來不是一個個案啦有一些整個系統上所以其實那個台中地檢它有強化複數被告案件分擔及歸檔的流程類為教育訓練的一個課程"},{"start":4933.248,"end":4950.86,"text":"那我想這也是一直要跟人家提醒這是一個管考督考的一個問題我們也是不希望有這樣的的此類的看起來是蠻特殊的就正好在每一個環節都有一些疏漏那另外我們也會本部也會強化跟司法院的系統來做一個交換這是屬於"},{"start":4952.481,"end":4978.342,"text":"是系統性的一個交換的一個機制所以它有這樣一個系統的互相勾擊嘛 等我確定了過來的話我們不會去漏掉因為有時候還是不管怎麼樣還是要人工所以本席這邊也提醒就是說這樣一個個案然後我們也發現這個系統可能有一些在需要做一個整理跟檢討那再來是相互的單位之間是不是要互相的一個勾擊"},{"start":4980.003,"end":4982.867,"text":"那所以但是很重要這一點其實也反映一個問題啦還是本席長期在關心的那個基層的檢查體系啦長期都高壓過勞所以我們從個案裡面其實會看到很多個向度的一個問題跟狀況"},{"start":4997.106,"end":5010.435,"text":"所以雖然這件案在台中的地檢但是我們看一下它的案量那整個108年度處理的案件38000多件然後關乎的案件有7544件那總共46397件那我們用一個平均來算每天181件"},{"start":5017.68,"end":5032.807,"text":"那麼人力跟時效的一個限制因為這件事情還關係到一些時效那結果在復合或覺醒上呢就沒有及時的做一個處理那事實上執行課的這個負擔也是很沉重那麼成辦的書記官也都每一年都達到兩千多件"},{"start":5034.568,"end":5061.564,"text":"那每一個執行的檢察官也差不多到每一年要八千到一萬件那平均我們講幾多啦台中、新北、桃園那這幾年來近六年平均每天都在兩百到三百件當中那基層人員其實也有反應那本席也長期關注那人力跟案件量其實蠻失衡的所以其實這個部分不僅是每一個環節那整個失衡的狀況可能也必須要再做一個整體的討論跟檢討"},{"start":5064.406,"end":5080.496,"text":"那麼這本席已經關心很久了所以這整個具體的人力的補充或減壓的方案或者是書記官在跟地檢署的這個基層的負擔你們現在有沒有一個更積極或者是可能看到預期的一個方案做一個應對呢"},{"start":5082.417,"end":5098.088,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個問題我想我們事件會很感動會很感動那的確增補人力我們一直在努力但是因為受限於那個整個一個天花板的一個限制事實上我們我們還是在這個這個我們還是在努力那另外這個的確"},{"start":5100.349,"end":5118.103,"text":"這個案管系統就是案件管理的一個系統這邊我們優化的確我們希望能夠更有效率更有效率來簡化行政的一個流程那事實上不要暗讀勞行檢察官也是一樣所以本席關心的就是這些基層人員的問題我想全國大概人力都很缺但是"},{"start":5119.023,"end":5141.453,"text":"因為在人力短缺的情況我們就是從暗管系統的優化、簡化流程還有推動AI的輔助系統那其實AI的輔助系統可以幫我們節省很多我知道AI可以節省很多事不過我們要學AI跟理解AI或者是讓AI能夠真的去做到對我們比較有效度的一個功能其實也需要一點時間那另外設備也要做剔除"},{"start":5142.433,"end":5158.368,"text":"另外最近我們幫書記官爭取就是很謝謝任總跟那個主計總署的支持那行政院在在今年你們現在的因應作為是不是也可以給本席一個書面的報告那個紀錄會從四千七提高到"},{"start":5159.828,"end":5181.514,"text":"607年 這也非常謝謝行政院的大力的一個支持那看起來你們這邊可能有一些進展那相關的進展報告是不是可以給本席那這邊我們再做一個 其實我們非常注意其實我們都有召開一些的定期的一些研商會議就是能夠合理化書記官的工作的一個負擔那我想我們就書面報告給委員本席這邊就是為基層 書記官還有相關的這個基層做一個請命那也很長期的"},{"start":5186.335,"end":5190.497,"text":"有身心障礙的受刑人在進入監獄的時候的狀況有沒有妥善的被處於的狀況"},{"start":5206.523,"end":5227.464,"text":"有一些個案就是在收容人入監之前因為交通事故就受傷了那入監後可能沒有及時在醫護上的一個處理結果就惡化了那另外還有一些不同的障礙像聽力障礙結果變成執行官也沒有及時發現然後在資訊上可能沒有及時的一個通報這些都是比較一些及時性可能發現的突發風險"},{"start":5229.506,"end":5255.458,"text":"那所以這就導致了在收容前後的一個醫療跟身心狀況通報機制的一個不足所以在醫療評估還有停止執行的一個判斷上是不是有後續的一個矯正的一個照顧那本席認為在這整個制度面有三點本席認為是段點的提供給你們參考就是說第一個段點是說什麼時候停止執行是否要停止執行這個標準是不是可以更明確化"},{"start":5256.178,"end":5259.399,"text":"那第二個段點是醫療專業有沒有進入到這樣一個步驟的決策核心那第三個部分是矯正機關的這個醫療處遇從收到了健康檢查到後續的醫療處置還有個別處遇計畫之間的一個聯動那這個整個實質的健康問題會被忽視所以這整個既然我們收容了那很多東西我們就必須要負責"},{"start":5280.726,"end":5291.93,"text":"那這整體的一個狀況因為有一些突發那有一些通報的即時性還有處遇 就是在處遇上或面對的一個即時狀況那這個部分是不是 蔣聖淑要不要簡單的回應一下好 謝謝"},{"start":5296.773,"end":5322.372,"text":"委員好跟委員報告關於國家信訪權跟醫療人權之間的話的層層皆知的話我們是很看重的因為那醫療本席這邊提到的是我可以針對第一線人員還有醫療的這個專業跟這個矯正的機關當然本席提到的那三點那你們目前有沒有發現這樣子的問題那有如果有對應錯事你就簡單給本席一個回應那如果還沒有當然你們打算怎麼做這樣"},{"start":5322.952,"end":5346.287,"text":"各位委員報告這個是我們一向都很重視的問題每個個案的話它的輕重環節我們都會去跟他判斷的從他從地檢署報告開始一直到我們新收一直到入境執行當中我們都會依個案的情形來跟他做判斷想請教一下那怎麼樣停止執行的這個標準是怎樣他主要是有兩個點譬如說他沒有辦法自己生活他沒有辦法自己生活那一定沒有辦法自己執行那怎麼去判定他有沒有辦法自己生活"},{"start":5346.787,"end":5369.175,"text":"我們是他先提供他的也病歷的一個資料我們先看然後再來的話就實際上他目前的醫療狀況醫生簡單講這個是應該會後要私下再探討一下就是說假設這個人他可能沒有人可以去幫他處理病歷的問題那他已經也失去了某一些生活的狀況那你如何就是第一線人員如何去決定他是不是停止去執行"},{"start":5370.055,"end":5383.472,"text":"我講的是那種個案的一個可能性我們還有十天的猶豫期就是說新收進來之後我們會放在併設我們十天的猶豫期來看到他真正的一個生活的治理狀況是怎麼樣如果在十天之內看出他真的沒有辦法自己滲透的話我們就會拒絕收監"},{"start":5384.518,"end":5402.667,"text":"所以本席這邊提到的是說一個即時性在這裡面就產生一些問題是不是你可以針對本席剛才講的三個斷點第一線人員的一個是否停止執行那第二個部分的一個醫療專業人員是不是可以進入核心去做這樣一個決策的建議第三個部分是那矯正機關"},{"start":5403.787,"end":5418.538,"text":"那如何在本席剛才所講的那個檢查跟醫療的處置還有處遇之間的這個狀況給本席一個回應就是書面的更詳細一點針對這三點好不好好 那我們就要書面給那個委員更詳細的資料好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":5420.399,"end":5434.226,"text":"那最後一點本席這邊今天這個部分是針對我想新北的這個戈井案是大家都很關注的那所以我想請教一下我們針對犯罪被害人的權益保障法第27條制度設計的這個問題"},{"start":5438.328,"end":5457.645,"text":"那麼其實在這一條的第一項就明確的規定被害人及其家屬得就受刑人假釋審查來陳述意見但是第三項排除了少年行刑事件的適用那麼所以就說加害人只要未成年那麼被害人跟他家屬在假釋過程當中沒有辦法來表達意見那這一次的新北戈井案當中"},{"start":5464.051,"end":5487.865,"text":"家屬很沉痛的這樣一個狀況就是加害人未成年結果呢他們的陳述就被排除在外那他們沒有辦法知道加害人什麼時候會出獄所以也不知道他被矯正的情況那更遑論這個家庭他們所擔心的有可能發生的任何的一些安全上的疑慮"},{"start":5489.546,"end":5515.956,"text":"更遑論他們能夠做一些準備那這個資訊落差對被害人而言其實在他的整個生活安全跟心理的安定上有很大的衝擊那所以你們是不是認為法務部是不是認為在現行27條第三項來排除少年刑事案件是不是合理那有沒有一些檢討跟修正的可能那第二個部分是在不違反少年保護原則的前提下"},{"start":5517.116,"end":5534.626,"text":"本席認為應該建立一套有限的知情與陳述的機制讓被害人至少能夠掌握假釋的重要資訊然後適度的表達意見第三個部分是針對被害人在整個少年刑事程序當中長期處於資訊不對等的問題"},{"start":5538.368,"end":5566.482,"text":"那麼法務部是不是從制度面有一些補強的措施比如說要求相關機關對被害人的意見要具體的回應然後來提升他程序參與的一個實質的意義那這幾點是不是我們針對這一個議題或者這一個條文那法務部我們在這樣一個個案發生而且各界非常關注的情況下那要不要針對這個法條有一些思考跟"},{"start":5567.823,"end":5585.88,"text":"修正呢跟委員報告剛才委員關心那個《環保法》二十七條排除少年是第三項嘛那事實上這是一二年修法的時候是司法院的建議啦他也尊重他的因為少年事件處理法是司法院主管的一個法規"},{"start":5586.741,"end":5613.576,"text":"他在我們的犯保法這部分他已經說少年的這部分的案件案件這邊也排除我們第一項的一個適用這是四環的建立那這一次那個少女事件處理法這部分也要做一個通盤的一個檢討那這邊我們也會來檢視說這一條是不是要做一個修改我們再來檢視那另外那個一個的確像那個少年的一個"},{"start":5615.037,"end":5642.809,"text":"一個被害假釋前 其實會做被害人意見的陳述的調查 譬如說我們那個假釋的實施的一個辦法我們都會問 都會去參考 去審查的資料是有包括被害人的一個陳述跟被害人遺屬的陳述他的意見我們會很尊重他的意見所以這部分請委員放心 這部分我們目前都要做 都是這樣子"},{"start":5643.049,"end":5659.718,"text":"是被害人被告之後在資訊的掌握度上目前他們一律就這樣子他沒有辦法去確認在假釋的這個資訊內容上這一部分我們什麼時候的話我們是不是請那個林署長來做一個補充這個假釋的一個審查資訊不對等的這一部分"},{"start":5662.472,"end":5682.059,"text":"跟委員報告只要他進來執行我們問到被害人被害人的話他願意來參加我們的假釋的一個意見的提供我們都會尊重但是有些被害人不願意是意見的提供可是他對於假釋的整個狀況就是加害人假釋的狀況他們有機會了解跟做一些因應嗎在實務上的話這個"},{"start":5685.06,"end":5692.482,"text":"這個比例並不高因為被害人都不太願意再進入這個區域但是家屬這個部分可能有一些心理的擔憂我們都知道實際的一個狀況我們當然期待加害者能夠在這個過程當中可能有一些更正面的被社會來接受"},{"start":5708.687,"end":5715.954,"text":"但是被害人你很難想像他過去可能家屬被害了那他現在對於資訊沒有辦法掌握那他心裡的這個陰影我想都是會存在所以應該這個不僅資訊不對等他們沒有辦法去做一些他們所謂的安全的防護我想這個是一個蠻大的問題"},{"start":5726.203,"end":5750.016,"text":"跟委員報告做一個補充事實上我們飯堡法我們各個飯堡的分會都是會去做一個協助會做一個協助那像那個戈井案的這部分我們也都是有一直在持續有專人去做一個輔導謝謝這個部長這邊因為這是社會關注的一個案件但是我想整體大家都會有我想這個也不是這個一個個案而已"},{"start":5750.396,"end":5778.556,"text":"所以本席這邊談的這個部分是不是也請你們做一個參考那不是只有這個個案未來我想我們都是通案式的一個處理我想這個被害人我們都覺得他們無辜受害我們真的是覺得非常的要給他對所以在一些實質的執行上實質的幫助這部分我們都有在做而且我們做的我們在像像1219他等等我們都是第一時間就趕過去像這一種新北市這樣我們非常的痛心"},{"start":5779.076,"end":5793.46,"text":"我想被害人他受到這麼的一個創傷所以在通案的處理上是不是法務部這邊可以更積極的來做一個處理如果委員有什麼問題這個時候我們做一個書面給委員幫我們做一些的一個機制讓委員更加了解支持好的 好好 謝謝謝謝"},{"start":5810.16,"end":5811.941,"text":"接下來我們請翁召惠好 謝謝主席那麼在這邊有請鄭部長我們請鄭部長召喚召"},{"start":5834.113,"end":5848.567,"text":"是 部長好 我想昨天晚上其實有一個蠻駭人聽聞的新聞就是在台中地方法院有一位已經有多次犯刑的"},{"start":5849.748,"end":5856.793,"text":"這樣的一位這個毆打律師的女性她又再一次的毆打了台中律師公會的理事長狠狠甩了這個理事長的一個耳光我昨天其實在晚上的時候我就有看到那個影片"},{"start":5865.08,"end":5877.827,"text":"非常的這個震驚在法院在法庭前面而且法警就在旁邊竟然然後可以縱容像這樣的一個加害人就一個這樣的行為人已經屢次犯刑然後都去毆打律師去恐嚇律師所以呢在這樣的一個情況之下當時當然就是現在這個律師公會基本上也發了聲明而且也對於就是說法警有在"},{"start":5892.734,"end":5916.8,"text":"旁邊可是呢卻沒有依照現行犯逮捕那麼證為說法院的這個措施他的做法不夠積極他們感到非常遺憾那當然就是本席在這裡也曉得有關於法院的管理不是法務部的事情這是屬於司法院的事情但是呢在這個事情上面我覺得他反映他一再的"},{"start":5918.25,"end":5938.299,"text":"凸顯了一個重要的問題就是律師的人身安全是不是應該要受到更積極的保護我們知道其實律師被毆打被暴力傷害已經不是第一個案例了那麼在這些年裡面其實我們常常都會看到有好些這個律師被毆打被"},{"start":5941.06,"end":5962.633,"text":"傷害甚至被撞死被縱火燒死這個案例像2024年就以最近幾年來來講就是台中當時就三名女律師是接連遭受攻擊就是被這次毆打這個台中律師公會的理事長的這名女性她這個連續被攻擊然後在2021年應該在更早2017年的時候"},{"start":5969.761,"end":5974.842,"text":"在台南地方法院外不是有一名律師也是被他的對照當事人開車撞死"},{"start":5976.392,"end":6004.171,"text":"還有呢還有一個是這個屏東的一個律師這是比較近期的在2024年一個屏東律師他在受委任去處理房屋點焦的時候在現場竟然也是被對照的當事人預謀縱火最後呢他不幸這個被燒死身亡所以類似這種案子其實屢見不邪那過去律師公會也一直希望能夠去修法在律師法裡面能夠加強就是對於"},{"start":6006.294,"end":6022.123,"text":"防害律師職務和攻擊傷害律師的行為予以法律制裁但是本席有看到就是法務部好像對於這個部分始終沒有積極的提出修法建議有嗎你們在律師法裡面你們有提案修法嗎"},{"start":6027.436,"end":6049.625,"text":"首先我要譴責這個對律師的不法的一個攻擊那這個是因為是在野好滑槽他也的確是在執行他的一個職務那這被攻擊那這個我們對這個個案我們會速查嚴辦如果涉及到刑惡會速查嚴辦那我們在一個後續作為我們會回來檢視這因為發生在法院的那一部分嘛"},{"start":6050.145,"end":6069.134,"text":"那我們檢察機關這邊我會注意到偵查庭的安全尤其是律師跟參與程序的這些的所有包括證人尤其證人會被追打或是被攻擊或者雙方會互相的攻擊這個都會有這樣的案例那我想剛才委員有關心到就"},{"start":6069.574,"end":6075.957,"text":"有關於律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修律師修�"},{"start":6099.107,"end":6116.296,"text":"那很遺憾的本席在這次的看到法務部的立法計畫當中雖然說有要提出律師法的條文修正但是跟要保護律師的人身安全要處罰對於律師造成是個人身傷害或是有些攻擊妨礙職務的行為的這樣的一個情況並沒有提"},{"start":6121.338,"end":6142.454,"text":"按修法要予以制裁所以本席希望法務部這個部分能夠盡速的提出相關的這個條文那本席在這邊也會積極的提出相關的修法案我覺得就是說保護律師保護我們戰野法槽讓他們能夠安心的去執行職務這個事情是非常重要的這也是跟我們的司法秩序有關"},{"start":6143.635,"end":6152.605,"text":"那麼接下來呢 本席要提這個問題其實剛剛藉機委員一開始就已經提到了就是既然我們的這個我們的這個"},{"start":6158.863,"end":6173.219,"text":"檢察官在這個執行犯人的這個執行刑罰裡面竟然忘記忘記了說是還有一個受刑人他沒有被執行"},{"start":6176.26,"end":6200.669,"text":"而且更離譜的是說這個案子並不是檢察官這邊自己發現的而是因為這個當事人他要出境結婚被攔下來了然後結果反覆的詢問才被查出來所以如果說這個當事人他一輩子都不出國那是不是過了30年之後這個受刑人他的刑期就會永遠消失那本席認為說這個問題其實是很嚴重的"},{"start":6207.813,"end":6231.412,"text":"跟委員報告這一件因為最主要是卷太多了的確是有發生到有時候若把這事情受刑的分案來執行的確是有疏失那首先還好是因為他行刑時效還蠻長的所以他這部分沒有理以時效那這裡發現執行那的確我們這有做檢討那剛才我在林委員在"},{"start":6232.874,"end":6246.071,"text":"我想這部分避免在此列發生我想我們會在做管考以及在宣導教育訓練這部分我們會再做一個加強就是當然啦 本席這邊有幾個建議"},{"start":6249.595,"end":6272.288,"text":"包含就是說你們是不是未來要建立系統化的追蹤因為現在已經進入到數位化然後資訊化的這個時代很多的這種發現執行它的這個程序然後甚至就是未來應該要不要在刑事訴訟法裡面也應該要明定執行指揮書的簽發期限避免再度出現有被遺忘了五年"},{"start":6273.208,"end":6300.107,"text":"然後的這種判決都還沒有去執行那麼我覺得就是人力不足固然是一個主因可是也不能說因為人力不足所以我們就認為說像這樣的一個情況是情有可原反正這個受刑人他最後也是知道了這個五年之後他還是被攔截到了然後又抓回去服刑可是我們不知道其實還有多少的案件"},{"start":6300.948,"end":6318.979,"text":"是判決確定了但是沒有執行所以我希望就是法務部這邊應該要進行全面的清查那麼同時對於失職的人員也應該要進行懲處那本身有看到就是說你們的懲處基本上只有最後的這個懲辦的書記官他的懲處是考積列一等只有處罰這個書記官那股長已經退休了"},{"start":6330.092,"end":6355.512,"text":"當時的執行檢察官也辭職了轉任律師結果其他的人都沒有事這個基本上我覺得社會大眾是不能接受的這種明顯的這個失職的情況竟然沒有辦法在他的層層的這個環節考核的這些人員還有失職可是卻沒有辦法處罰本心是建議喔"},{"start":6357.474,"end":6381.569,"text":"法務部應該要訂定出相關的這個懲處的程序不應該說這個因為什麼退休啦然後轉任啦然後所以他們的過去的失職的情況這個追究就一筆勾銷應該要再研議好嗎這部我們再來研議我們回去再去一個檢討"},{"start":6383.796,"end":6394.206,"text":"這個案子是監察院有特別提出來的所以本席認為說這個問題也是很嚴重這邊我就不再繼續再討論這個議題剛剛慶祺委員那邊您也回答了很多了好那接下來我想要再談到另外一個議題就是因為部長您在最近3月11號檢察官首長的交接典禮上面有公開的要求檢察官要超前部署年底的九合一"},{"start":6411.584,"end":6433.175,"text":"選舉查案而且甚至特別強調國安的案件偵辦不能夠再以傳統的形式思維來去處理那麼當然這段話就引起了高度的關注主要大家就會想要了解知道部長您這裡所謂的非傳統思維的具體法律定義是什麼"},{"start":6435.574,"end":6450.368,"text":"因為現在整個境外敵對勢力就用假訊息的去做一個借選那我想這部分我們不能夠是姑息一定要去正視因為我們認為選舉最重要就是公平公正"},{"start":6451.158,"end":6472.891,"text":"能夠在一個平和的狀態去選舉那我想每個參選人、候選人都希望沒有任何的其他的包括金錢、暴力、假訊息的這些的一個介入影響選舉的一個公正所以我們這部分以前都沒有注意到國安那從上一次的選舉就開始發現都假訊息充斥在尤其現在AI的"},{"start":6473.351,"end":6494.672,"text":"AI的世界有AI的一些的生成的所以我們現在行法也有修法也有修法就是有些的AI生成的這些的這些必須法律都有這個依據所以我們要去更重視我想我們是法律人本身在這裡很強調所謂的非傳統的法律思維到底它具體的法律定義是什麼"},{"start":6495.333,"end":6510.691,"text":"本期擔心的是說你這邊是不是按指或是有意的去做指導就是希望未來檢察官在辦案的時候呢相當程度的可以就原本要求的嚴格的證據法則"},{"start":6512.913,"end":6532.407,"text":"然後可以放寬可以放鬆我希望就是說所有的檢察官就是未來的相關司法人員在辦案的時候應該還是要回到那個嚴謹的證據法則畢竟檢察官辦案必須要倫理跟證據並重所以呢你這裡的所謂的強調的非傳統思維的確是會讓人感到"},{"start":6539.38,"end":6547.008,"text":"這個會混淆不知道說您指的意思是什麼不過今天我們現在講的就是說是您是希望說在九合一選舉的查查的部分能夠更加嚴謹當然這裡也會要提醒部長因為我們知道其實過去大家一直都會質疑司法特別是在選前就開始"},{"start":6559.441,"end":6568.034,"text":"大範圍的動作那這可能會引起很多民眾認為說是不是司法在借血那麼尤其是過去的幾次選舉常常看到"},{"start":6576.326,"end":6605.065,"text":"檢方在選舉前期大規模的約談基層的里長參選人可是之後呢其實又常常又多以不起訴處分甚至到了法院的判決還有判決就是無罪的這個情況所以像這樣子的一個選前大動作的偵辦選舉之後卻查無實據的模式其實已經嚴重的傷害了司法的公信力那麼本席在這裡要請教就是說法務部為了要如何確保"},{"start":6605.725,"end":6630.234,"text":"超前部署而不是針對不會是針對性的打壓就超前部署他不是針對性的打壓你們要怎麼去做這件事情跟委員報告這個超前部署因為選舉的有一定的一個期程那因為法務部要督導因為最高檢察是一個督導的一個小組我們是選舉查查要去我們是查查"},{"start":6630.899,"end":6647.121,"text":"那查查不能夠等到選舉已經明天要投票現在才去查查因為我們一個台灣的民主政治是得來不易那台灣的民主政治是透過選舉一票一票去投出來的所以"},{"start":6647.801,"end":6659.847,"text":"這個一個選舉的一個公平公正跟純潔度我們必須要做一個確保所以我們一定要超前步就是說我們現在要我要提醒檢察官在期前策略費用你一個期檢報告選舉還要公報出來公告之前"},{"start":6663.249,"end":6672.038,"text":"我們就要開始部署了我想這個是在座提醒立切的選舉我們都是要做提前的部署因為有些是送錢的基本上也支持部長您的看法您的這個查辦的這個方向但是本席還是希望法務部能夠制定明確的標準針對什麼叫做借血對於這個借血案件的發動你們應該要建立更"},{"start":6686.693,"end":6690.315,"text":"發動門檻還有審核機制尤其是另外就是說選後也要去檢討特別是你選前大眾做的偵辦但是選後都不起訴或是被判決無罪這個未來是不是要列入檢察長以及檢察官的年度考核否則的話就檢察官反正聽從上億然後隨便的辦案那到了這個"},{"start":6709.045,"end":6733.1,"text":"之後可能又最後又不起訴或者是說又被判最後法院可能被法院可能判無罪這個基本上我覺得都已經嚴重的影響到司法的公信力那本行希望說你們能夠訂定更嚴格的標準好那最後本行還有一個很一個也是跟時事題有關的我們知道其實呢在你們今天的報告裡面有談到兩岸司法互助的問題要共同有兩岸共打擊司法互助"},{"start":6737.423,"end":6742.867,"text":"那其實這兩年來我們知道你們這個兩岸司法互助的這個案件非常的少你們現在書面報告上面都是寫說從簽訂協議之後到最近然後有總共有多少案件但是實際上從蔡英文政府民進黨政府執政之後兩岸的司法互助的共打的這個機制基本上已經是沒有什麼很積極的在運作然後互助的案件也非常的少那麼在這個去年年底的時候呢"},{"start":6767.182,"end":6789.805,"text":"就曾經有發生過一個案件就是大陸那裡突然就遣返了13名的通緝犯跟刑滿人員而我們這裡台灣方好像完全不知道這件事情所以本席想要問的就是說你們在這次報告裡面有提出有指出調查局有請求協助棄捕遣返僅六案"},{"start":6790.485,"end":6804.294,"text":"這個六案當中有沒有包括去年12月大陸一次就突襲遣返了13名的通緝犯跟刑滿人員有包括這13個人嗎這部分我請國務院司司長待會回答"},{"start":6806.276,"end":6834.705,"text":"跟委員說明就說兩岸的這個司法互助其實並沒有中斷仍然繼續進行然後我們每年都有這樣的一個統計數據所以就是說以今年來講我們現在數據仍然有相當多件就依照不同的項目比如說像這個通緝犯的遣返或者是情資交換文書送達你想回答我就是說是去年年底大陸遣返回來的這13個人當中有包含你們當時請求互助的這個案子裡面嗎"},{"start":6835.885,"end":6865.408,"text":"有包括你們在所請求的六案的這個名單之內嗎是就有關這個向大陸請求棄捕遣返這個部分的實際上哪一些人要對大陸請求棄捕遣返這個部分是屬於刑事局在處理那他給我們的這一些人裡面是屬於我們通緝犯的我們回到台灣來我們就會依照相關的規定來處理所以有關這裡面有沒有是屬於我們特別對大陸請求大陸棄捕遣返的這個部分可能是屬於刑事局的這個"},{"start":6866.008,"end":6884.138,"text":"本席要講的就是說因為這種突襲式的遣返其實對於邊境的安全會造成很大的衝擊尤其是路方在金門水頭碼頭進行丟包式的遣返由公安押解上傳結果現場的旅客就"},{"start":6885.75,"end":6908.597,"text":"就是非常的驚訝怎麼會有這樣的一個遣返的這個看起來遣返的這個犯人然後跟他們一般旅客是混雜在一起這可能會造成國安和防疫的漏洞那麼當然陸委會說現在沒辦法我們只能務實接收可是我很希望就是我們的法務部跟調查局這裡未來能夠在跟對岸的司法互助裡面能夠"},{"start":6910.457,"end":6933.052,"text":"更積極 而且希望對方有些什麼動作我們這裡要知道 要知情不能說我們完全對於他們什麼時候要遣返遣返多少人 一無所知而且更何況是部分的人員在入境之後因為在台灣他沒有被通緝 所以自己就走了"},{"start":6933.812,"end":6956.064,"text":"他們在道路犯罪然後呢在台灣可能因為沒有被通緝所以呢回到台灣之後呢就自行離開這未來會不會又會造成我們這個治安的這個漏洞本席希望說你們應該要有更積極的作為那這個最後的本席也希望就是說你們可以再下次可以提供一個報告就是說是對於我方請求以及成功遣返以及陸方單方面"},{"start":6957.145,"end":6975.602,"text":"主動遣返的案件比例你們不見得需要就是這麼多年就是大概近5年或近10年你們的這個兩岸互助的情況然後給我一個更清楚的一個報告這樣可以嗎是 委員我們再來提報告好 謝謝 法務部麻煩你們會後記得把報告補給翁委員好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝翁委員"},{"start":6991.755,"end":7007.551,"text":"那接下來我們請張雅玲委員發言謝謝主席 我們有請部長好 有請鄭部長委員好"},{"start":7012.415,"end":7028.313,"text":"部長好好那我想最近大家對於少年事件處理法呢有許多的討論跟爭議啦不過我想今天也是想要再跟部長做更多的討論就是說在少事法的核心呢其實就是以保護優先教育先行所以這個目的呢其實是要讓我們的"},{"start":7030.75,"end":7047.701,"text":"這個孩子呢能夠健全自我成長調整他的成長環境並矯正其他的性格所以我想我們還是一個很重要的重點就是專業的輔導跟支持讓他們可以降低災犯順利的能夠回到這個社會裡面"},{"start":7049.724,"end":7076.497,"text":"但是我想當我們在講保護先行的時候我們還是要去正視我們現在的制度上面的確有一些問題否則這可能就會讓這個保護反而讓大家非常的害怕反而就變成一個實際上的一個崩解的狀態所以我想接下來就想要跟這個部長在針對幾個特別是矯正學校上面來去做討論矯正學校的目的其實是要讓這些孩子能夠獲得授教權"},{"start":7078.629,"end":7106.744,"text":"但是根據基層教師教父小組的第一線反應呢我們現在校內的氛圍還是偏向於是戒護安全優於教育輔導我想這個其實之前也有非常多的委員都來關心過這一題那我們今天其實所有的今天的內容呢都是第一線的人員從社工程特教從教父老師這邊得到的一些回饋所以也希望說可能在實務上面我們可以怎麼樣來協助大家做改善然後來落實我們兒少的一個保護"},{"start":7107.765,"end":7127.893,"text":"還有我們這些孩子的受教權所以呢第一個問題就是說教學連貫性常常因為安全考量或是人力不足而中斷就例如說我們可以看到在日本他們有很多的執訓來提供給這些孩子那我們台灣也有好像餐飲課的孩子他們也是有烘焙課的課程可是呢我們從第一線人員的回饋裡面得到說"},{"start":7129.835,"end":7137.47,"text":"有些孩子他們本來應該要進行實作課程的時候卻因為介乎人力調度不過來所以孩子最後只能上理論課那"},{"start":7140.686,"end":7160.581,"text":"我想現在我們在這個教政學校的孩子呢其實他們成長的背景都比較可能52%我看到一些報告都是來自於競評或是單親就是這個家庭資源其實是相對薄弱的所以他們其實不太有機會可以去探索他自己那在我們108課綱裡面其實有個重點就是希望可以讓他們去探索嘛"},{"start":7161.141,"end":7190.024,"text":"那現在就變成是說當這個孩子要探索之前我們先有一個最大的問題是我們有沒有更多的穩定的資源例如心腹資源 特教資源讓他能夠安心去探索所以這是第一個部分我們還能不能有更好的一個比例那在第二個部分是說當他去做探索跟他去做這些課程的時候我們常常又會因為介護跟教學衝突而造成他最後可能只能上理論課所以我們是不是可以去"},{"start":7191.525,"end":7211.652,"text":"盤點我們因為借戶人力不足而導致他沒有辦法進行實作這樣子的一個狀態到底統計數字上面有多少我們是不是可以來做這兩件事情好謝謝那這部分因為這部分我有關心我是不是請那個矯正署署長可以就關於邵教肖跟邵官所這部分沒問題邵教肖好謝謝"},{"start":7214.102,"end":7234.133,"text":"委員好 謝謝委員跟我們提到這些問題其實每一個小中學校 現在我們有四所小中學校每個小中學校裡面都有一個校長校長是由教育的人來擔任的他會評估當下的那個介入安全跟教育的一個課程的安排他會做評估的所以說我們不會偏重在介入安全"},{"start":7235.615,"end":7262.877,"text":"我的問題在於說我們知道但是我們也非常清楚的知道裡面流動率非常的高所以我們是不是可以更清楚的用數據來去呈現說有多少的實作課程因為介護人力不足而導致他最後只能上理論課因為其實在植訓來說最有趣的地方就是實作課對不對我們不可能全部都上理論課我們一定要有更多的實作課讓孩子有機會去操作因為對於一些特教在特教教育上面也會有一些透過實作的方式讓孩子可以更穩定"},{"start":7263.838,"end":7287.398,"text":"所以今天如果說我們可以有一個更清楚的明確的統計資料的話我們就會知道說到底多少因此而受影響否則現在都是一種感覺上對不對所以這件事情是不是可以做一個盤點呢我們可不可以從現在開始來做統計受到影響的狀態那第二個問題呢其實就是說我們現在還有一個就是司法矯正主導跟教育輔導介入之間的一個專業磨合"},{"start":7292.482,"end":7308.834,"text":"就是也是現場人員告訴我們說矯正人員跟教育人員的一個教育訓練本來背景就是不太一樣就是過去我們都是以矯正人員為主可是我們現在已經加入了很多不管是新福拉特教其實都已經把這些人員專業給納入可是他們現在沒有共同的職前訓練也就"},{"start":7310.495,"end":7325.011,"text":"也就造成說他們沒有辦法彼此理解而造成標準不一那現場管理也就造成了一些困難所以我們是在想說有沒有可能呢這個是可以來做一個針對新進的矯正人員我們提供一個心理發展的專業增能課程"},{"start":7330.557,"end":7346.349,"text":"讓他們在這個制度的設計之下可以彼此了解然後不會變成是說一般都是扮得非常黑的黑臉管秩序然後完全不理解他的心理發展跟創傷因為大部分的孩子都有一些創傷嘛所以我們是不是可以往這個方向來做還是"},{"start":7347.309,"end":7367.328,"text":"實務上都有這樣在做每一個新進人員都會一年會至少調到我們書裡面來訓練一次那在現場運作上的話像校長是教育人員副校長是我們矯正人員所以說校長副校長他們兩個人都會去溝通去評估當下的話我們應該怎麼處置是最好的基本上我們還是以教育先行這樣的目標在推行的"},{"start":7367.912,"end":7393.378,"text":"好 我想因為我們今天所諮詢的內容是第一線的回饋所以也許我們這邊的理解跟第一線的也是存在落差所以是不是有可能我們可以來提供給我們一個資料就是說我們到底現在安排的這些對於矯正人員來提供的一些不管是心理啦 特教啦這些職能的訓練 真能訓練的一個數字到底每一年有多少 每個學校做多頻繁"},{"start":7394.778,"end":7403.82,"text":"一個一個矯正人員是做到上完一次之後就結束了嗎還是他有持續的在上這個資料是不是可以就可以提供給我們再提供資料給委員謝謝那再來就是說"},{"start":7405.749,"end":7426.548,"text":"還有還是他們說他們第一線工作者反映他們的工作量非常的大甚至要分攤非專業背景的政策業務嚴重的壓縮他們個案輔導的品質實際上來說輔導教師可能一個人要對40個人所以這要如何去維持品質呢我想這個部分其實也是蠻需要"},{"start":7427.188,"end":7449.181,"text":"我們這個矯正署再來協助我們現場人員的一點就是說他們很在意校內日常處遇如何運作以及如何共同接觸學生所以是不是可以研議一個建立專屬矯正學校的跨領域之前與在職共同研習來確保我們的矯正人員跟教育人員能夠用同一套語言來溝通"},{"start":7451.52,"end":7469.118,"text":"這個部分是可以的嗎可以可以 謝謝委員的指導那大概什麼時候我們可以來追蹤這個相關的進度呢跟委員報告 其實我們的輔導老師的一個比例的話最高是1比31 最低是1比14所以說以市所學到的你不會達到1比40這樣的一個輔導老師這樣的比例"},{"start":7469.318,"end":7480.767,"text":"好 那沒關係因為我們現在是從那個現場得到的一些回饋還是說我們再約時間針對這一題我們再來詳細討論好不好好 那再來因為我還有別的題目還有就是特教資源"},{"start":7483.356,"end":7512.494,"text":"好那基本上就是在2023年我們特教法修正之後呢有強調要保證特教學生的學習權益跟合理調整而是以我們現在的四所矯正學校的障礙生來說呢合理調整跟特教支持的落實有明顯的落差也是老師們的回饋啦就是說矯正學校的特殊教育正在面臨嚴重的鑑定與結構性體制的困境因為呢他們的背景來源其實相當的複雜可能不管是入校前中錯啦然後或是幫派的文化等等的"},{"start":7513.374,"end":7539.102,"text":"那這就導入他們在入校之後的障礙樣態非常的複雜跟傳統的教育體系是存在的一個落差所以是說我們現在送鑑定的個案呢常常因為資料難以佐證或是難以排除藥物的影響而被判成非特教生也就是說他因為今天是特教生他才能夠得到特教資源可是他今天被判非特教生的時候他就拿不到這些特教資源所以"},{"start":7540.299,"end":7561.955,"text":"這是一個問題那再來第二個就是說特教還有我們非常強調就是個別化的一個需求來提供給他針對性的一些支持可是我們現在在矯正學校常常會強調一個所謂的一致性的管理跟戒護安全所以就變成是說因為矯正學校的孩子落差非常非常的大樣態也很不一致所以"},{"start":7563.096,"end":7578.296,"text":"現在一般特教體系用的一些教材教案到了矯正學校也常常不適用所以我們是不是可以做一件事情就是邀請我們的鑑定單位還有矯正學校的特教老師共同建立一個更適合"},{"start":7579.057,"end":7595.05,"text":"矯正學校的鑑定標準並且常態化的去辦理出任教師的研習跟教材教法的支持來確保我們的司法端的管教跟我們的專業需求這個差異化的需求可以達到一個平衡是是是"},{"start":7595.863,"end":7616.012,"text":"跟委員報告目前的話我們有經過鑑定這案的特教學生總共是146名那我們的那個特教的老師是11名平均是1比13點多那目前我們跟國教署雙方談的是說1比15這樣的比例所以說我們是有符合國教署這樣的比例可是未來都我們朝向1比8的比例來邁進"},{"start":7616.932,"end":7632.168,"text":"我想這裡面其實不是比例的問題當然比例就是說比例的確是維持但是我們其實特教老師的流動率也非常高新任的比例也非常高那再來就是說今天講的重點其實是孩子沒有辦法被判為特教生"},{"start":7634.013,"end":7660.661,"text":"不過那個是一個持續性的一個鑑別問題我們有特教老師在那一邊我們會訓練我們的特教老師具有鑑別的能力如果這個學生他已經出現是智商是學習障礙是情緒障礙等等的話我們會再重新再跟他鑑定所以他們多久會評估一次呢這個要看那個老師他現場看到的情形只要發覺他當下有這樣的障礙需要去跟他鑑定的話那個老師就這樣做這樣的安排"},{"start":7661.414,"end":7683.262,"text":"好那這個部分我們是不是也可以約時間來詳細的討論呢因為其實特教的問題也是蠻複雜的啦那我想最後一個一點這個可能要請這個教政署衛福部還有法務部跟衛福部一起來討論就是說這些孩子離開學校之後他如何回歸社會那其實回歸社會他就要回到他原本的家庭裡面"},{"start":7684.022,"end":7702.974,"text":"那如果我家庭可以支持的話他基本上就可以在家庭裡面好好的回歸社會可是如果家庭不能支持的狀況之下他可能就回到幫派或是離開家庭去的別的地方對不對宗廟都有可能好那所以呢我們現在在家庭端其實我們也都非常清楚的知道52%的孩子家庭其實相當不健全"},{"start":7703.514,"end":7721.63,"text":"所以這可能就要跟衛福部來持續的討論如何的去支持這些家庭的功能變好這樣子才有可能讓這些孩子真正的是能夠在家庭裡被支持因為我們從這個一些統計的研究發現很多的家長回去也是繼續的打罵啦或者是"},{"start":7722.711,"end":7749.614,"text":"不是非常好的一個管教方式啦所以我們是不是可以跟這個衛福部來重新我不曉得現在有沒有一個非常好的一個機制來去給家長支持這個部分可不可以簡單說明一下是 跟委員說明一下其實從學生入校六週內的時候我們就跟衛福部的保護師做逆境少年他的家庭支持服務方案我們就會跟他做一個聯繫的我們希望說這個少年能夠貫穿式的一個保護服務從他入校開始一直到他出校為止"},{"start":7750.235,"end":7756.789,"text":"該有的學籍轉嫌就業的媒合還是他需要什麼社政資源的接觸的話我們跟衛福部的保護師都有密切的在聯絡當中"},{"start":7758.069,"end":7779.975,"text":"而且她出校的時候我們在追蹤一年但是我想齁 因為我們的兒少的再犯率相對來說也還是偏高啦所以表示說這個機制上面到底運作的如何對 那這個部分是不是也可以給我們現在你們的一個運作機制的這個簡單的說明好不好這個應該是可以匯報或者是就可以提供的吧 對不對好 我們再提供詳細資料給委員好 那我們就在約時間再來詳細討論 謝謝好 謝謝張委員那麼"},{"start":7788.233,"end":7788.253,"text":"委員長"},{"start":7803.706,"end":7820.398,"text":"部長早安今天是我第一次來我們司法法治委員會跟您質詢我非常關心的事情就是未成年性侵的追溯期自成年起算這件事部長可以看到我現在這個投影片上是我從2022年"},{"start":7822.279,"end":7841.752,"text":"就持續關注這個議題因為真的有非常多的案件特別就是狼獅性侵案那當受害者說出來的時候事實上都已經是就是超過追溯期非常久那因為本來法務部都沒有就是回應"},{"start":7842.512,"end":7869.651,"text":"所以我也跟陳健院長總質詢謝謝那次院長跟當時的法務部就在2023年同意即刻啟動修法除了法務部之外我們也呼籲大法官應該要處理事件案因為好幾位公益律師跟受害人站出來認為我們這個追溯期的限制事實上是違反憲法保障的人權"},{"start":7870.812,"end":7889.586,"text":"那我想最新的進度部長應該非常的了解因為我看你們的今天的報告中都有提到那我非常肯定法務部在今年一月這是一月的新聞就已經提出修法然後政院也已經通過了那目前正在跟司法院在會選"},{"start":7891.127,"end":7913.514,"text":"然後那也肯定司法院目前有釋憲案正在進行中這是今年三月就是這個月的新聞那但是我想講的事情今天在跟您質詢是要提的是刑法只是第一步被害人保護其實需要其他的配套"},{"start":7914.014,"end":7941.24,"text":"那這邊我以一個個案跟部長交流部長有沒有聽過有一個戲曲學院案這部分我沒聽過沒有聽過沒關係那我跟您說明一下這個戲曲學院案是2002年 2008年就爆出的那戲曲學院的老師他對學生性侵那有學生出來揭發那最後調查的結果"},{"start":7941.94,"end":7961.278,"text":"是有五個學生明確被性侵其中包含14歲的學生在住宿期間而且可能還有一些沒有出來檢舉的黑暗黑數這個是調查確定的你可以看到我2024年3月的時候就開記者會"},{"start":7965.402,"end":7980.036,"text":"當時這個學校當時我們還沒有講哪個學校是某國立學校喔需要教育部專案介入因為它事實上學校有處理不公的問題喔那這是我們在2024年3月的記者會就直接要求教育部專案介入"},{"start":7980.737,"end":7994.43,"text":"那教育部後來也介入了你可以看到2025年2月在我們的記者會之後11個月監委紀惠蓉也調查確立國家對不起這些孩子"},{"start":7995.775,"end":8017.867,"text":"為什麼監委說的是國家對不起這些孩子而不是只是加害人下一個給部長看一下監察院調查的報告謝舉學院在民國92年當時還要求這個未成年被害學生向行為人這個狼屍道歉而且還嚴重吃案"},{"start":8018.847,"end":8045.893,"text":"那這個部分明明他們的性別平等教育委員會提出意見可是卻沒有辦法審議通過然後教育部居然以當時人力不足沒有名列性別平等教育的業務執掌並沒有處理導致這個理事民國92年的事情後來延宕15年又沒有處理中間有更多的學生受害"},{"start":8046.993,"end":8061.528,"text":"所以監察院明確糾正教育部有責任當年就失職戲曲學院學校當年失職學生這麼小年紀的學生都敢站出來居然學校是叫學生跟老師道歉"},{"start":8062.328,"end":8088.808,"text":"那我想這件事情2025年後來教育部也給壓力而且教育部還必須要用扣3.1億的補助款吸取學院才教評會重審後來呢讓郎師跟包庇者全部都解聘這是在大家追追追之下得到的結果我想看完這件這個個案之後不知道部長您會不會覺得"},{"start":8091.21,"end":8115.022,"text":"國家有責任因為戲曲學校是公立大學公立學校的確這個是要譴責的有這些的狼屍的這個那我想跟本部有關的跟法務部有關大概就是我很關心的就是民法的待會兒我再問您您先談一下您聽完這個故事覺得國家有沒有責任國家應該要"},{"start":8117.663,"end":8135.351,"text":"幫助協助這些被害人來維護他的權利國家當然應該協助被害人那監察院 教育部跟國立台灣系舉學院都有處理疏失那您認為這樣國家是不是有責任我想我們就尊重監察院的一個調查的一個結論那監察院這樣那我再告訴你後續"},{"start":8136.871,"end":8163.969,"text":"後續他一直得不到任何賠償您看一下這個是當事受害人我還跟他碰過面真的讓人非常的感動他現在已經長大了在文化界領域工作因為這是戲曲學院可是他願意為他的公平當年就是兒少的公平正義有律師一起要求賠償國立台灣戲曲學院拒絕賠償"},{"start":8166.583,"end":8194.651,"text":"那這是他到目前為止沒有辦法得到任何的賠償我們看一下所有相關的賠償法規你們處理的是刑事對不對刑法可是國家賠償法的請求權是5年民事的求償請求權15年發生在2002、2008年的事到2024年才明確性侵案成立所以我要講的事情我肯定法務部修了刑法"},{"start":8195.071,"end":8205.253,"text":"但是沒有配套他出來其實這對他都是一個創傷沒有得到任何的賠償所以人權還是有傷害的那我想"},{"start":8206.491,"end":8235.436,"text":"之前有民間團體跟你們詢問你們回答是說法律有它的安定性的問題可是你們這次刑法第80條的修正草案也講了性侵害犯罪本質具有隱秘性然後被害人案發時如果身心發展尚未成熟可能會導致心理創傷等等還有跟加害人之間權力不對等戲曲學院就是老師性侵14歲的少年"},{"start":8236.056,"end":8258.181,"text":"所以你們雖然法律秩序有安定性可是性侵害犯罪尤其是兒少有權力不對等為了實現司法正義所以對於這類人不計入追溯權實效的立法令我想問部長的是刑法可以這樣寫那民法是不是也可以"},{"start":8258.901,"end":8284.888,"text":"跟委員報告的確我們有在做一個研擬的一個修正的草案在把剛才委員關心的就是說剛才那個民法的是197條那個侵權行為的那還有時效15一般的時效是15年那剛才委員提到說行事是不是那個不算的確是行事在性侵犯罪那個在被案滿20歲以前的這些時效都不算"},{"start":8286.088,"end":8301.951,"text":"要從滿20歲才開始起算那這是我們民法的修正的初稿我們是朝這個方向去做一個考量謝謝那容我先打岔那很高興聽到你們民法正在嚴禮當中比照這個刑法那這邊為了給部長底氣我也幫你查了一下其他的國家都有類似的做法"},{"start":8309.693,"end":8334.042,"text":"以澳洲來講是國際間做得最徹底的那它基本上國家機構代表要親自致歉與承認譬如說如果今天是國力系取決這個機構要親自道歉承認然後最高可以得到15萬澳幣台幣就320萬的補償那還有心理諮商等等那這些都是其他的部分"},{"start":8334.682,"end":8357.488,"text":"那不只是澳洲加拿大安大略省他也很明確取消未成年性侵的民事訴訟時效這個就在政府的網站上可以看到那提到說這裡面有不對等的關係受害者可能依賴就是這個當事人等等所以他這裡面no limitation period就很明確的講"},{"start":8358.228,"end":8382.219,"text":"沒有時間的限制我想部長應該知道我剛講我們跟多個民團倡議還有一個犯罪被害人權益保障法裡面也有時效的部分這幾個法因為時間的緣故我這邊列出三法中間的民法您剛講到正在研議犯罪被害人權益保障法"},{"start":8383.22,"end":8395.462,"text":"裡面補償金請求時效還有一個我們剛講到監察院認定國家有責國家賠償法是不是也應該要一起全面來檢討研議一下那部長可以承諾嗎"},{"start":8400.305,"end":8418.295,"text":"有關於那個民法 國配法還有犯罪被害人補償法這我們就會通盤考量那謝謝部長 承諾通盤檢討那兩個月內可以給本席跟我們司法法制委員一個書面報告嗎是 可以喔好 謝謝部長 我們一起努力好 謝謝好 謝謝范雲委員也歡迎加入我們司法委員會那接下來我們請審法會委員發言"},{"start":8429.946,"end":8431.367,"text":"主席我們請部長有請部長委員好部長好"},{"start":8456.601,"end":8472.437,"text":"我想我今天看到我們這個法務部的這個有關於業務報告的書面計畫之外那我看到我們法務部的這個立法我們有另外附上一本法務部的立法計畫立法計畫裡面列出了我們這個我們要這個計畫立法的清單"},{"start":8473.718,"end":8498.245,"text":"裡面共計42案42案裡面有的是我們法務部還在研議中的有的是行政院在審查中的有的是會前司法院的有的是已經送到我們立法院的委員會審查中的那大部分這些法案都是我看這個社會都有諸多的討論也都是一些這個重要的這個法律修正案這個部分我都"},{"start":8499.305,"end":8518.915,"text":"我也仔細的看了所有的全部42案的這個相關的內容其中我特別感興趣社會比較這個討論度比較低的齁這部分我想特別今天利用這個質詢的機會齁來跟部長討論一下也就是我們這個立法計畫清單裡面的第19案齁有關滋恐防治法的這個修正草案"},{"start":8520.581,"end":8539.55,"text":"這部分我們的這個滋恐防治法在2016年制定至今已經十年了十年那這個其中只有在2018年做了一次修正那這個這一次我看了我們的這個修正連我們整個法案的名稱也做了一些修正這部分是不是能夠請部長先稍微簡單說一下簡短一下"},{"start":8541.003,"end":8562.444,"text":"把這個修法的重點有關滋恐有關這個滋恐防治法的修法重點這個滋恐防治法這部分的確是要因應那個亞太防治洗錢組織第三項目拼件所指的一個缺失啦那以及說是國際社會入獄關制諸五課行為造成一個威脅所以要把這個做一個修法那我們這樣的一個"},{"start":8565.327,"end":8585.206,"text":"我幫你來整理幾個重點第一個是立法目的有一個最重要的第一個目的就是過去的這個資恐防治法所謂資恐就是資助恐怖活動恐怖組織恐怖分子這在第一條裡面明定但是我們現在除了資恐之外我們又增加了一個非常重要的部分叫做資武擴"},{"start":8587.228,"end":8613.184,"text":"也就是資助這個大規模的毀滅性武器擴散我們把這個資武擴甚至放到法案名稱裡面去了表示說這是我們這次修法的一大重點就從過去的這個資恐資助資助恐怖活動恐怖組織恐怖份子之外我們在規範另外增加規範有關於資助大規模毀滅武器擴散的部分為什麼做這樣修正其實剛剛部長在簡單念的時候就講到一個重點就是這個"},{"start":8614.786,"end":8632.246,"text":"這個事實上亞太的這個洗錢防治組織齁他們事實上在做這個相關的這個相互評鑑裡面齁他們針對我國現在的資管防治法提出了這個重大的漏洞提出了有關於有關於支五擴的重大漏洞這是我們過去我們的資管防治法沒有規範的對不對部長"},{"start":8633.847,"end":8661.761,"text":"對的確是沒有錯所以因為把這明確定義那個大規模毀滅性武器擴散的當作一個規範的一個基礎所以我們在這個除了這個法案名稱增加了資武擴以外另外我們針對資武擴的犯罪形態的相關的這個這個構成要件他的法律效果等等也做了相關的規定是除此之外我們還有一個一個重要的就在我們實務的需求上面新增加這個我們的這個目標這些金融"},{"start":8662.401,"end":8687.006,"text":"金融的制裁制裁制度那以及他們相關的這些通報跟可疑的這些申報的義務過去他們有通報跟申報的義務現在我們增加他有關制恐禍的部分他的這些金融機構以及這個這個指定的這些非金融事業跟人員他們都有相關的申報跟通報的義務也規範在這些新法裡面對不對是以前沒有嘛這次是新增的增訂的好"},{"start":8688.123,"end":8716.486,"text":"那這個大概就是我個人比較關注的啦齁那這個所以我看這幾個重點齁除了剛剛講的名稱跟這些相關的這些滋恐過的法律規範之外另外我們有一個重大的修正就是有關於我們過去這個滋恐防治審議會我們也做了修改對不對過去我們的這個滋恐防治審議會齁我們包括他的名稱也改他的成員"},{"start":8717.523,"end":8739.445,"text":"也做了增加他的職責我們也做了更動名稱的部分過去是知恐防治審議會我們現在變成知恐及知武廓防治審議會名稱上面做了改變成員的部分除了過去的各部會之外我們現在新增了財政部跟交通部對不對財政部跟交通部這兩個副首長都必須要加入"},{"start":8742.447,"end":8756.671,"text":"這個審議會嘛吼更重要的是他過去其實他的角色是在於這些政策的研議啦法案的這些審查還有這個相關的計畫的核定跟這個業務的督導過去是一個督導性質的但是現在不是了現在不是了現在我們這個這個"},{"start":8759.225,"end":8773.642,"text":"審議委員會它包括了受制裁者的指定你要指定誰受制裁必須由這個委員會這委員會新的功能職能另外以及誰能夠從這個制裁裡面除名有關於指定跟除名都是未來都是由這個審議會"},{"start":8775.433,"end":8797.65,"text":"由這個資孔跟資武庫審議會來審定對不對部長這個是規定在第五條到第十一條對這部分是一個很重大的變更啦這個特別是交通部非常特別因為事實上相關的有關於大規模武器擴散的許多的資助模式他都跟海上交通有相關的有非常重大的關聯那這個"},{"start":8800.421,"end":8828.342,"text":"另外我們這個也新增了這個剛剛講到有關金融機構跟指定非金融事業跟人員的義務通報義務跟申報的義務我們也增加了那另外關於資務或犯罪規範的修正修正裡面有些重點我這邊也不一一提第一個是說它過去的要件主觀要件過去是以明知為條件一般故意就可以了對那現在變成這個一般故意這個是一個很重大的修正"},{"start":8829.463,"end":8849.611,"text":"那另外這個有關於這個過去受制裁資助受制裁者過去是指你也只有資助恐怖組織恐怖分子但是對於資助受制裁者在過去是沒有規範的現在以後你去資助這個被制裁的人這個也受到我們這個新法的規範這也是一個部分那這個"},{"start":8850.811,"end":8866.267,"text":"但是這裡面更重要的這個部長我希望讓社會大家了解透過這個執行讓社會大家了解就是說我們的這個什麼叫做這個資武擴什麼叫做這個資助大規模毀滅性武器的擴散"},{"start":8867.902,"end":8895.442,"text":"這些並不是我們自己可以隨意定義的我們在法條裡面定義得非常清楚它是禁止與經聯合國安理會制裁是聯合國安理會制裁的而且這是第一個條件第二個要經過我國公告除了聯合國安理會制裁了我國還要公告公告禁止或管制貿易的國家或地區那這個你在這些地區從事貿易或是任何的貨物交易都是屬於這個置物或犯罪"},{"start":8896.55,"end":8912.897,"text":"對不對 這個部分 這個是犯罪是有規定在17跟18條修正18條更重要的是過去一些相關我們所謂紅旗行為就是說他本身還沒有看真正的資助但他做了什麼動作例如說他的傳播 他隱匿實際的交易資訊或者說他無故關閉這個傳播的自動識別系統"},{"start":8917.574,"end":8943.373,"text":"我可以說我沒有資助啊我只是把那個識別系統關閉掉或者是你去土改或者是為居民這些土改你的船舶辨識的編號這種行為在過去它並沒有進入這個滋口防治法的管制但是現在包括你去篡改航海日誌或者是你不做航海日誌的記錄這些行為其實這個紅旗行為在這次的修法裡面我們都納入規範了對不對"},{"start":8945.314,"end":8970.87,"text":"所以這個事其實是很重要啦這個要讓國人了解說我們這個重大...而且這個法案現在事實上已經在本委員會了對 這已經送立法院審查了那只是一直沒有安排審查啦那這樣子的規範重要的是什麼我們舉這個2019年發生的這個案例有關於我們台商我們黃信台商涉嫌將這個3000噸的石油偷賣給遭到制裁的北韓"},{"start":8972.045,"end":8983.596,"text":"北韓的船隻這個這個案子齁在2019年齁發生那在這個2023年最後判決確定在過去以舊法的規範最後判決結果是什麼部長記不記得"},{"start":8987,"end":9004.825,"text":"最後我們只能按照這個滋恐防治法這個是一年一年對一年最後判處一年那是蠻輕的啦很輕啦他除了這個違反滋恐防治法以外另外在未照文書四個月還一顆罰金啊那這個在國際上面在看這個重大的這個違反這個武器擴散"},{"start":9007.276,"end":9024.874,"text":"這個行為裡面我們最後只這樣子過去舊法只能這樣輕判但是事實上如果我們能夠順利修法完成的話像這樣子的相關的行為不只他的那些剛剛我所講的那些紅旗行為都可以個別成立犯罪另外按照這個第17條過去是一年現在變成五年了"},{"start":9025.635,"end":9044.709,"text":"變成五年以下的遊戲圖形這個就天差地遠這個部分是非常重要的一個修正那我希望說這個我們這個部長能夠利用相關的機會讓這個社會了解我們在這個滋恐防治法上面我們所做的這個修改的方向也讓國際社會能夠理解到"},{"start":9045.389,"end":9064.517,"text":"台灣在這個有關這個防止這個大規模的毀滅性武器的擴散上面台灣所做的法治上的努力好不好好謝謝我們希望這個禁訴能夠通過好那另外第二個部分有關這個前面其實有委員提到了那我現在也一方面時間關係我就比較簡單的講就是"},{"start":9066.601,"end":9086.893,"text":"有關於我們被害人的陳述這之前早上也有委員提到被害人的陳述的權利在我們目前現有的法治上面不管刑事訴訟法的第271條他在審判日他能夠有陳述意見的機會被害感情的陳述另外在第289條在證據調查完畢之後在事實跟法律辯論"},{"start":9093.477,"end":9117.065,"text":"這個辯論之後在這個就苛刑範圍辯論之前被害人有陳述的機會這都是刑事做法明定的另外這個我們的國民法官法也特別明定於苛刑辯論前這個被害人跟其家屬依法得陳述意見這些都是目前法治上面有保障的包括審判期日包括這個苛刑辯論前但是一旦進入"},{"start":9118.771,"end":9141.505,"text":"這個執行的層面之後到這個刑罰執行的時候有關於假釋的部分目前這個被害人能不能在假釋在這個受刑人假釋與否的這個過程裡面表達被害人的意見這部分目前我們的法治保障是不足的啦是不足的第一個在法治上面沒有明定我們目前沒有明定但我們並不是沒有做"},{"start":9142.466,"end":9161.433,"text":"但是我目前所做的他的規範的成績非常的低他是在用我們這個刑事訴訟法裡面所授權的不是用監獄刑刑法所授權的授權的這個受刑人假釋實施辦法裡面在這個實施辦法這裡面才提到"},{"start":9162.293,"end":9187.079,"text":"有關於而且他在他在這個假釋這第三條裡面提到說有關假釋資料的申請的審查有六項這個犯行的情節啊這個在間的形狀犯罪記錄教化腳趾處遇成效更生計畫之後的第六項其他其他裡面的一小項第五項裡面提到說被害人及其遺屬之陳述意見"},{"start":9188.806,"end":9207.256,"text":"所以他已經是在法律授權之下的辦法辦法裡面的各項裡面的其他四項裡面的一個小項提到這個那實際上我看你們這個實際的執行我也看你們有關這個假設的這些面談 摘要表裡面"},{"start":9208.696,"end":9233.644,"text":"有關面談原因的部分才有一項是被害人跟其遺屬申請意見是說為什麼面談是因為被害人原因而已至於被害人的意見究竟在整個假釋制度裡面佔多少比例其實是非常非常的低啦我按照你們這個評估等級對照表裡面去對照其實這個幾乎是沒有踩到這個意見這部分部長是不是你先在政策上面"},{"start":9234.702,"end":9259.267,"text":"有關於被害人在假釋制度裡面是不是我們能夠在法制上面賦予他們陳述的意見陳述意見的機會並且把被害人的意見納入是否假釋的這個考量裡面在一個立法上我們再來檢討我們再來檢討那不然以現在實務上的確是有落實這部分的一個被害人的一個陳述跟遺屬的一個意見其實目前是沒有落實"},{"start":9260.027,"end":9278.505,"text":"目前大部分的現狀 那執行面是不是請那個署長署長 其實現在目前大部分很多的現狀都是這個被害人連說他的受刑人已經假釋了都還不知道每一個個案跟委員報告每一個個案我們會行文去調查調查被害人的意見被害人的意見我們再假釋報告"},{"start":9279.386,"end":9290.845,"text":"表裡面都有被害人意見的陳述另外他在提審查會的時候 教委是有一個報告報告說這個被害人表示的意見給教事審查委員做參考所以整個流程裡面我們都很慎重很嚴謹來看待這個問題"},{"start":9293.311,"end":9320.371,"text":"你現在抽像講,我其實可以拿你們的這個表裡面來看來看你們在這個評估這個受刑人假釋和平估量表你看它裡面有關於這個被害人的這個意見在這個估量表裡面他佔多少分數他在佔的比例而且現在現實上很多狀況是受刑人都已經假釋了,你被害人根本不知道連知道都不知道"},{"start":9321.872,"end":9344.223,"text":"相關的這樣子的通知義務這樣的告知義務我們都沒有在目前的法制上面有規定這個沒有關係因為目前的法制確實是沒有規定我是希望說我們法務部能夠在法制上面來做彌補那在整個制度的改革上面我們能夠現在我還沒有要求你們做一個統計到底有多少案件"},{"start":9345.287,"end":9364.284,"text":"多少假設案件你是不是連被害人連知道都不知道他佔多少比例你們也沒有統計我有詢問你們你們也沒有統計那相關這樣子的案件數沒有統計之外我還是希望說能夠這個不要只是在刑事上面表格裡面的最小的內項裡面一個小小的分數是被害人的意見我認為"},{"start":9366.185,"end":9384.614,"text":"這個在相關一定法律要件之下被害人在假釋的過程裡面所佔的意見應該要予以他法治的地位以及予以他這個加強他的意見的對於這個是否假釋的結果的影響這部分我是希望部長能夠在法治上面來做這方面好不好好 謝謝沈委員那接下來我們請林月琴委員發言"},{"start":9406.589,"end":9407.253,"text":"主席麻煩部長好有請部長"},{"start":9414.533,"end":9440.099,"text":"部長早部長我長期接獲不少民眾陳情反映一種犯罪模式犯罪者會在IG或的社群平台建立女性的虛擬人設長時間跟被害人聊天培養性的後誘導對方進行視訊的裸聊或者是拍攝私密影像並在過程當中去測入之後再把這影像"},{"start":9441.179,"end":9463.88,"text":"拿到那telegram的群組或者是論壇或者是交友平台來販賣甚至以騙換騙的方式呢持續的流傳而且受害對象不只是兒少也常鎖定外型較好的人譬如說運動員軍警醫護等穿制服的職業有甚至出現集體鎖定的情況部長你知道這個犯罪的模式嗎"},{"start":9465.494,"end":9489.361,"text":"這個的確實務上常常有這種的案例那我覺得再來問你第二個就目前行事實務通常是以哪些罪名來做處理這算不算一種詐欺模式當然如果說有有強暴脅迫的這個是有刑法319-2來規範那少年這部分如果說這是一個詐欺的話實務上是有詐欺得利罪"},{"start":9489.901,"end":9497.494,"text":"判掉的這種的案例我可是不講這不只是不僅是詐欺啦還可能同時構成好恐嚇取材耳哨性剝削以及"},{"start":9498.538,"end":9526.216,"text":"組織犯罪的這些相關的議題而部長陳勤仁跟我反映說第一線執法的流程存在一些落差譬如說有些案件警方會先通知嫌疑人到案說明簡單詢問後就現場查看他的手機或者是影像裝置就發現沒有證據後就先讓犯罪嫌疑人離開但是沒有同步進行搜索或者是扣押"},{"start":9526.956,"end":9547.535,"text":"這樣子可能就導致我們的證據流失我知道這第一線的偵查人員都非常的辛苦可是對這類的案件檢警是不是有統一的SOP流程確保在鎖定嫌疑人後如果有必要的話就能夠優先進行搜索和扣押以確保嫌疑人不會有滅證的可能性有辦法做到嗎"},{"start":9548.375,"end":9575.999,"text":"我想實務上像這種的性侵的案件的一個偵辦保全這個的確是非常重要因為它會存在就像那個數位的保存要知道被害人最受苦的就是影響外流之後永無寧日所以這部分基本上那個案件的偵辦都會先申請搜索票或者先來進行搜索來扣證來避免那個證據的流失"},{"start":9576.599,"end":9596.489,"text":"那這部分我想實務上基本上的做法是這樣部長真的是這樣嗎我再來跟你請教一下關於網路犯罪的管轄實務見解上有廣義跟狹義來做區分這部長你這部分部長應該知道吧那今年新影像案件越來越網路化組織化加害人"},{"start":9597.309,"end":9626.352,"text":"就會是常透過社群平台暗網或者是加密的通訊軟體彼此串聯那犯罪行為可能遍及全台可是如果你的廣義的話那當然沒有問題可是如果你是用狹義的來偵辦的話就會變成說那個網在設置網站的地方甚至電子郵件的主機所在地你去認定的話有時候就會有問題因為很多相關影像或證據也都藏在個人電腦硬碟或者是雲端空間如果偵查時"},{"start":9627.192,"end":9655.868,"text":"的時候沒有辦法統一指揮因為有時候事實上是全部前來可是如果你只針對一個地方的話那其他的地方也是可能會有滅政的可能性所以如果你沒辦法去統一指揮同步來進行搜查的話一旦其中有一個人被查獲那他通知其他人那其他的成員就可能立即滅政轉移群組然後繼續翻案這不會是一件好事所以部長關於這個問題法務部應該如何因應獲得有沒有具體的作為"},{"start":9660.283,"end":9667.505,"text":"這部分因為的確有廣譽說跟狹譽說的一個問題因為各地現在辦案的方式都不太一樣高檢署是有統合來做一個管轄權的指定看給哪個地檢署來偵辦會比較妥適因為的確是我們也擔心法院萬一是採狹譽說的話這個會有這些沒辦法"},{"start":9685.09,"end":9707.216,"text":"所以像我們那個創意司法這邊我們就是給台中地檢來偵辦嘛創意司法這邊其實以來講以廣義說明每個地檢署都有管轄權嘛但是我們有統合給台中地檢高見來指定給統合給台中地檢部長我要問你像以這個陳情案例來講光兩個資料夾的影片數量秀高達"},{"start":9708.869,"end":9723.165,"text":"KQ看到了所以想問你說重大性影像案件的成立專案標準是什麼是案件規模呢還是影片數量還是被害人數因為這事實上是陳情人給我的資料你要到底多大的案件的性質"},{"start":9723.686,"end":9746.303,"text":"都已經是有7223個檔案他還是不成立不成立專案有6800個檔案也不會成立專案你們到底要多大的案件的性質跟規模跟複雜程度你們才會成立專案然後來查所以內部到底有沒有一致性的標準這個有多少的檔案這個都是要查了才知道"},{"start":9747.344,"end":9776.103,"text":"那我想可是他已經是給你們結果你們到底有沒有去做查到底能不能成立專案來調查警方如果說有會報詞彙我們都會用專案來處理這部分會專案來處理可是我說這個陳情人他已經去跟你報案那你們有一千個成員的甚至裡面搜索他們自己在這成員裡面他們是當成員他那邊有六千八百個檔案的你也沒有成立專案小組如果說那個司法警察機關有報詞彙我想我們都是用專案來處理的"},{"start":9777.003,"end":9802.364,"text":"我真的也要跟你反映一種狀況這類案件受害的不是只有女性現在非常多因為我現在接到這陳情的很多是男性而且有些人在報案或偵查過程當中都還遇到調侃說你一個男性怎麼會被騙呢這沒有分男女甚至一個嘲諷的情況被害人本來就承受很大的心理壓力如果在求助時又受到這樣的對待"},{"start":9803.184,"end":9820.022,"text":"可能以後更不敢去報案他也不知道誰對方側入了他當他發現的時候他去報案怎麼會有這樣狀況所以部長法務部是不是能夠有相關的教育訓練確保第一線人員在偵查過程當中能夠用更尊重"},{"start":9820.603,"end":9847.333,"text":"的態度來面對被害人他已經是受害了不要再去嘲諷他沒有人想要受害我想這個我的見解跟看法是跟委員一樣那我們也非常重視事實上我們那個剛才委員提到那個專案那個個案是的確我們都會是專案但是如果說是有專責小組在辦的話我們現在都是由副右專組在辦部長我還是要問就是說我剛剛就這是陳情人他已經去做這樣我說"},{"start":9848.593,"end":9871.993,"text":"到底你們成立專案的那個標準是什麼所以我在這邊請你一個月內提交報告也就是可不可以提供你們明確的性影像案件的處理流程還有成立專案小組的標準是什麼否則有一千一萬個成員甚至有這麼多檔案在裡面你們還是不成立專案小組啊"},{"start":9872.873,"end":9888.046,"text":"所以請你一個月內把這個報告給我是 那這邊我們再來做一個報告好 謝謝部長 謝謝好 謝謝林委員我們現在休息五分鐘對 不好意思因為我剛剛有進行宣告了不好意思 謝謝鍾委員"},{"start":10329.324,"end":10344.591,"text":"好 現在我們繼續開會我們有請鍾瑞雄委員謝謝主席有請我們法務部正部長還有我們蔣正署好 請部長還有蔣正署署長早安也好"},{"start":10348.325,"end":10370.431,"text":"副長 上個禮拜本院三讀通過了刑法跟刑法實刑法的一個修正案主要是在回應整個憲法法庭 憲判的一個意旨就是針對無期徒刑撤銷 假釋以律適用20年或者25年殘刑的制度來進行調整並且去依不同的犯罪形態"},{"start":10371.571,"end":10386.273,"text":"去設計差異化這樣的一個規範本席在這個地方肯定法務部跟朝野我們共同來完成這項的一個修法但是本席要特別提出來來救教法務部在今天業務報告裡面做一個提醒就是說"},{"start":10387.509,"end":10406.218,"text":"在草野協商的時候本席一直在提出一個呼籲就是說法律制度允許這個假釋不管是無歧途型或者有歧途型的受刑人他終歸要回歸到這個社會嘛那你回歸到社會啊所以你這個復歸社會以後你透過制度性的一個評估跟處喻"},{"start":10407.158,"end":10432.115,"text":"盡量讓他去降低風險這個在整個刑事政策裡面是非常關鍵的一環所以我要提出來就是說我們現在假設法院裁定緩刑來負責保護管署的現在的關乎人接手你關乎人接手後對個案再進行評估包括對社會的危害性或者是在犯風險的高低來擬定這樣處於的一個計畫"},{"start":10436.418,"end":10451.359,"text":"這個大家批評很久啦就是說常常比如說我是關務人的話我常常會留意主觀沒有一致性缺乏一致性的一個標準啦那在科學性跟實用性這個部分 法務部也有去精進"},{"start":10452.78,"end":10478.934,"text":"認為該提出一個比較較具本土性的科學性還有這個實用性的這樣的一個系統出來那我們改善的一個方案裡面你就是去建置保護管束人犯再犯風險評估的智慧輔助系統我現在搞不懂的地方就是說我們現在2023年我們的毒品暴力和性經危起點預測再犯的指標裡面我們現在就只有幾個新竹"},{"start":10480.393,"end":10505.378,"text":"苗栗台北跟台南所以我要問部長就是說這一套在範的風險的評估智慧的一個輔助系統到底是在什麼地方卡關他會跟他一體我們2023年開始到現在進入2026年我看你們還沒有繼續不可能說是一個客觀的標準就只有在這五個地檢那到底你的期程"},{"start":10506.67,"end":10533.122,"text":"有沒有這樣的一個有沒有設定就是說你在這個化部會資料整合的部分有幾位沒有啦我記得我上次講的是說你那個在英國在美國他們都發展出他們自己的系統啦譬如說美國他就針對受刑人不同的種類女性啦青少年啦成年人啦復歸社會犯罪人提供是種不同的一個版本啦"},{"start":10534.253,"end":10547.925,"text":"他們當然去跟他們的衛福 類似我們的衛福部跟教育部他們跟他們去做一個串接那這些有一個好處就是到最後去使用機關可以包含假釋的審查委員會或者"},{"start":10550.848,"end":10556.814,"text":"我們這邊的叫矯證署 監獄當局負責社區矯證的這些管情跟假釋部門相關處域提供一個像要因者的一個醫療端因為這串接啦我現在要問的就是我們2023到現在五個你再來 你現在2026你不可能只有這五個地檢署啊你其他的地檢署呢你有沒有規劃一個期程我這一點要來救救我們政府長謝謝"},{"start":10577.062,"end":10599.82,"text":"那其實這個是建制的是委託那個警大來研究團隊來建制的那當然的確是10110到12這是一個試辦階段1134系統的保固那114從去年開始那我們本部有編列預算就委外服務的經費進行維護那今年要配合系統轉型為數據中台"},{"start":10601.661,"end":10620.208,"text":"要結合深圳市AI來技術優化既有的在放預警及關戶書類的產生的一個功能但我想我們這部分我們會再做一個精進那以前是跟科技部跟那個科技部申請那個科技的一個計畫來支應的來建置的但我想這部分我們會再推廣會再升級"},{"start":10620.948,"end":10645.704,"text":"那這部分委員剛剛有關心的就是有沒有借階的我剛才說錯了,不是5倍,是4倍而已,只有4倍而已那那個要借階,因為這個升級版的借階是要跟衛福部跟勞動部來系統做借階那這部分我想我們會再做推廣,我們現在會再推廣出去我認為啦,你那個期程還是要訂出來立法院裡面,你來司法法制委員會你就知道"},{"start":10647.405,"end":10661.013,"text":"口水比鳥還要多但是你們該做的事情那這一些本席在這個地方特別要來呼籲你要是要繼續做好的東西你本來要做的你發現了那麼多一個弊端我們一直在講說要讓它去復歸這個社會可是我們又認為說要交給"},{"start":10665.769,"end":10686.925,"text":"關乎人以後實現的結果幾十年下來你會發現偏於主觀沒有一致的一個標準那既然有這麼好用的東西外國有先例嘛你們現在也有去做啊只做到四個地點數全國從北到南的之前有啦那個年底全國推廣啦因為現在齊省就是到年底全國推廣年底全國都要推進全國啦"},{"start":10687.205,"end":10706.738,"text":"我跟翁小玲兩個教委都跟你支持 好不好 你本來就該做的你看他唱到一直頂頭 你知道嗎第二個我要繼續來就教的就是說你看監所人員的權益的部分一直講 我說這應該給人家啦尤其是深夜的一個家籍"},{"start":10709.465,"end":10735.557,"text":"大家都同意,司法法治委員會都同意可是你送到行政院的不報院的部分你們變成要求補正資料,我要請問部長跟署長的啦這個署長你來講好了,你到底這是什麼理由,你要補正什麼一個很好,大家都幫你支持,支持到你還要什麼整頁都不會出來這也很奇怪,又再漏血了,來請說明謝謝委員的關心,這個從去年的五月我們就報行政院的人事行政總署"},{"start":10736.257,"end":10743.443,"text":"他十月有跟我們回文他說就那個等級的內容的那個敘述的話希望說我們更清楚一點"},{"start":10745.489,"end":10770.106,"text":"對 他覺得是說我們的分級介護跟金額的差距的話需要說我們再研議甚至我親自去跟蘇任市長都有跟他報告說明我想蘇任市長他基本上是很支持我們的只要我們給他肯定的這樣的一個說明的話他應該會支持我們什麼時候這個案子可以"},{"start":10771.466,"end":10785.559,"text":"我替你協調好不好 草野政黨全部都幫你們爭取你不這樣 你像譬如說 我去把那個資料看一下你桃園地區 你監守的人一直跑 離開"},{"start":10789.215,"end":10803.057,"text":"你就桃園 你離開22個 掉入0台南21個 處理21個 去買到7個台北 處理14個 去買到6個這個都不是正常的流動我看這個都是人力的失血"},{"start":10804.182,"end":10810.931,"text":"所以這個部分喔 署長你這樣不行不可以我們大家在跟你鬥雞雞這個你們要講啦 你們要講啦立法院有給你支持的好 謝謝大家沒有爭議嘛 好不好好 謝謝到底是說 他們教你講實話 你也要做一下說這些人離職"},{"start":10821.403,"end":10841.034,"text":"調動你們系統性做一個分析 到底是工作壓力太大 還是錢太多 還是說你們的升遷制度出問題你們今天都沒什麼做到啦 這個要加油好不好那另外 講了好多次了啦 書記官的問題啦我剛剛在這個我們司法法制委員會"},{"start":10842.652,"end":10857.416,"text":"講了好多次 越說越嚴重沒聽到我覺得書記官的問題越說越嚴重那這怎麼辦你說除了法官跟檢察官人力施警以外我看現在最麻煩的就是這個書記官我看今年這個你看那個新北地院書記官報道率說2%而已"},{"start":10860.12,"end":10883.106,"text":"缺額71個,來兩個台灣現在各個地檢署執行的案件數量我看越來越可怕你光新北、台中、桃園地檢署每天處理的說300間,說要300間我看這個人這樣跑沒有辦法進來這個都是基層的這種人力,這都是一個崩潰的警訊"},{"start":10885.827,"end":10907.805,"text":"我一直在講,一直在趕集齊考試制度當然也有一點問題啦有要去當考司法官的考律師的那就先來把你這個書記官先把你考一考,好像來練習一下還有平常書記官都有律師資格,他就會流失掉所以我的意思是說這個很麻煩啦,我認為薪水是不是太多"},{"start":10909.346,"end":10937.255,"text":"他那個的確的確因為我們那個最近我們也非常謝謝行政院以及主計總署跟人總有支持那個紀錄會的調整那當我們爭取了28年終於這一次有提到到6年 主席你應該要謝謝我們立法委員們啊 大家都很支持啊你說檢察官的助理不用客氣我反正我沒有 不然都一直沒通過 不好意思插話你給我看他在幫我倒貢你給我看 結果我們落機時你就好 但是謝謝兩位稍微都對我們那個書記官跟那個我們線索的同仁的"},{"start":10939.638,"end":10957.37,"text":"這些待遇的調整我們除了吵架以外我們還真的會做事支持你們同事合作啦 再謝謝業務包括本地人要去集齊啊你有一些地方你該去我們該跟你支持的是一定跟你支持啊該吵架的我們另外來吵啊對不對像這一些講了那麼久的還是要去做突破"},{"start":10958.231,"end":10984.081,"text":"你看那個案子一直在那裡堆積如果說去看那個因為委員都有去看過那個書記官他那個那個資訊課還有那個整個卷那個堆得像萬里長城一樣我跟你說這我都不想跟你聽你知道嗎我們這都說到瘋了啦我們雖然不知道這個狀況我們就是要解決問題啊我都認為你們那個薪水都還夠太低啦還要去做一個突破你像你這個要加薪對不對你要加多少而已1370"},{"start":10987.302,"end":10991.844,"text":"1370千幾塊我也當過書記官那時候我當書記官的時候是1000塊但是物價指數的話已經超過這個很多了的確是書記官這個工作忙碌是比以前是倍增的好幾倍的增加"},{"start":11005.311,"end":11032.061,"text":"這補充我們不要說理由我們想緩緩啦我們真的要給你支持啦不然這個會崩潰掉這個不行我們再來研究看怎麼樣這個不能開玩笑那你像譬如說我們現在用那個AI啊輔助系統啊去減輕他們的工作的一個量能啊這個也都不要留為我們這樣嘴巴在講啦這樣跟人家說說也沒意思啊你要趕快看你自己在做什麼因為不容易嘛在司法界裡面可以當到部長很大的容易但是該去做的"},{"start":11032.745,"end":11045.487,"text":"看在目前 書記官這個補分 案量太多 暴增 大家離職這個想辦法把它解決掉 是朝野 都給你支持 好不好 好 謝謝好 謝謝莊委員接下來請王洪威委員發言好 謝謝主席 我請鄭部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":11065.655,"end":11084.171,"text":"好 部長好剛才我們林沛翔委員也問了這一題就是因為這兩天在新聞媒體突然看到說我們的次長黃士傑次長在上班時間去參加一個新屋農會的活動這個活動因為應該跟我們法務部的業務毫無關係"},{"start":11091.337,"end":11104.322,"text":"但是同一時間呢因為現在媒體盛傳就是民進黨可能提名黃士傑去參選桃園市市長所以部長我想請問一下如果"},{"start":11108.059,"end":11115.568,"text":"黃次長真的有心去角逐桃園市市長在上班時間雖然你說他有請假這樣的一個活動合適嗎"},{"start":11123.937,"end":11150.288,"text":"因為如果未來他就是用市長的身份去參加跟我們法務部業務毫無關係的活動只是為了要為自己的競選暖身適合嗎你身為長官是不是可以勸他如果要選桃園市你就盡快的做出一個規劃不然你就趕快定一個請辭的時間以免外界來非議"},{"start":11152.137,"end":11167.808,"text":"跟委員報告的確他這個是有請假的他有請假下去那我想參加這個一個節慶的活動我想這個跟他的我們的市長業務完全沒關係嗎我想這是一個好事情我想是一個"},{"start":11168.889,"end":11190.827,"text":"那個獲得全國獎項的一個肯定優質到可跟你們保護部業務完全沒有關係啊我們保護部打詐不需要很繁忙嗎他不是公務的行程他自己請假的個人的一個行程所以是私人行程他是請休假去的私人休假所以私人休假我們都尊重他處理個人的他自己的行程我們都尊重"},{"start":11191.107,"end":11214.128,"text":"好 我覺得這個事情如果是偶一為之 那也就算了但是因為他現在盛傳他要去選桃園市我覺得對於所有的政治人物啊 如果你真的要去選桃園市的話這是他的自由 我們也予以尊重但是呢 我覺得就要趕快對外來做一個宣布我剛剛講 我們法務部打仗還是很重要 還有這麼多的修法 好不好"},{"start":11217.791,"end":11236.756,"text":"好那接下來有一個修法呢事實上在上個會期我在司法法制委員會我們都很關心我們也有提案就是有關於特留份的修法那在我們討論的同時呢正好就出現了議員曹熙平過世然後他就出現這樣的一個問題"},{"start":11238.817,"end":11241.1,"text":"因為他想把財產留給這個在他過世之前一直在照顧他的一個我不曉得好像是他的乾兒子但是他就會受到這個特留份現在民法"},{"start":11257.678,"end":11280.483,"text":"所受的限制那在我們在上個會期一直請法務部趕快提出相關的修法那部長當時也說今年年初就啟動修法其實時間過得好快喔現在就三月了已經年初已經快要到三月底之前應該算年初了吧所以部長這個修法的時程是不是要加快"},{"start":11282.443,"end":11307.532,"text":"的確我們現在已經啟動修法的一個程序因為我們那個去年我跟委員我報告過就是我們在去年委託研究案在去年底有出來了那我們並同105年的當時有一個修法的一個草案我們來檢視那我們也進行了民法繼承篇的一個研修的一個會議了已經啟動了那我想大概那我請問一下因為時間關係因為你們除了特留份之外你們還對遺囑有這部分有"},{"start":11309.793,"end":11332.336,"text":"那遺囑的方向是什麼因為我看到有甚是因為我們過去都很傳統遺囑一定要手寫嘛其中一個必要條件要手寫要把它科技化我想請部長好可以就是這個部分因為我覺得很多民眾會關心到用得到你們現在有關遺囑的修正你們的方向具體化可不可以說一下"},{"start":11334.477,"end":11355.358,"text":"謝謝委員垂詢目前的我們的計程片研究小組其實是會按照議題的輕重環節剛剛委員您有提到的特留份的部分是我們目前第一緊要的包括它的配套遺囑有部分會是在第二階段第二階段的部分其實我們會縱觀包括我們去年底有委託一個研究報告的內容"},{"start":11355.838,"end":11369.505,"text":"跟我們之前的草案不過整個大方向是希望能夠朝向自住遺囑能夠更便利更便民那以及它有關相關的保管的規定可以讓它真正的可以你講得不夠具體耶那因為對阿講得不夠具體嘛講了半天然後我是請教就是說我們遺囑現在的形式必須要用手寫嘛"},{"start":11378.729,"end":11395.035,"text":"就是這個其實有點落後那但是問題就是說你要符合現在的科技別說好像你們方向未來什麼錄音錄影的方式也都可以它的形式不單純只是用手寫的形式但是你錄音錄影"},{"start":11395.575,"end":11412.288,"text":"可能現在因為AI又這麼盛行那又會面臨到這種AI的變造會不會增加以後大家爭議主啊這種議主的官司更多所以這部分我就想請既然我們問到了民法有關議主的修正"},{"start":11415.605,"end":11440.214,"text":"這部分我們會在廣泛的收集意見因為這個意見其實包括委員您所關心的部分在研究報告跟我們之前105年的草案其實方向也不太一樣那在105年審查的時候其實也有委員指教過說像自訴遺囑也見到有些身心障礙人士他可能是手寫字不方便是有的沒辦法該指引的部分我們都會把這些議題都融合在一起之後做全盤研議那我具體問"},{"start":11442.696,"end":11452.454,"text":"耽誤後面的委員時間 我具體問 未來齁因為你們說電腦打字 未來可以錄音錄影 未來可不可以 你們是不是這個方向"},{"start":11458.968,"end":11482.576,"text":"報告主席因為我們的草案的內容其實目前還沒有文字因為我們有一百零五年的版本可是因為我們的包括我們的研究計畫內容其實不同好 因為我真的不耽誤時間第一個 退留份的部分我覺得你加速趕快先送過來好不好 什麼時候可以送到立法院這部分還要預告還要行政的審查我們會把這個數七成"},{"start":11484.156,"end":11511.456,"text":"把它加快因為看起來這個會期我們因為就是為加速所以我們希望又有投鉤的處理啦先特留份先處理對 特留份第一階段先處理先討論出來有結論馬上送行政我們要預告嘛然後預告我們要送行政院然後加速快速審查因為如果說法條多的話就會速度會變慢如果說僅就特留份那相關的條那你們就拼這個會期先送好嗎那這部分我們隨時會跟那個市委會來做一個報告好謝謝"},{"start":11514.161,"end":11519.682,"text":"好 謝謝王委員那接下來我們請林一錦委員發言謝主席 有請鄭部長"},{"start":11538.789,"end":11556.241,"text":"部長早 今天本席想要跟您討論轉型正義的這個議題法務部現在轄管的有兩處不宜遺址一個就是法務部矯正署的這個新電介製所還有太原監獄 那禮儀呢我們其實都要完成文化部不宜遺址的標示作業"},{"start":11557.302,"end":11572.549,"text":"不過他的前身作為國防部台灣軍人監獄的新店介製所他有先做了一些線上環境的導覽這點在轉型正義的工程上其實值得肯定的"},{"start":11573.229,"end":11595.097,"text":"那我首先想請教的是已經沒有一共的這個太原改訓監獄是否有規劃就是像這個軍人監獄這個新建制所感冠會同文化部來進行所謂的線上環境這個導覽的建制有沒有這樣的演繹的這個計畫"},{"start":11597.731,"end":11605.436,"text":"這部分我們在了解 目前我們倒是還沒有但是有的這是不亦已止這部分當然我們會再重視委員關係的我們會來了解那因為針對這個實體的空間當然我們不方便開放就是說這個隨進隨出參觀的部分所以部長我是替你想就是說我們怎麼讓民眾進行歷史補課"},{"start":11623.908,"end":11650.245,"text":"所以因為新店跟太原這兩處都關押過政治犯所以譬如說如果說可以開放給團體這個定時定點的導覽這個不曉得部長認為可行嗎因為這兩個監所現在都使用中我想這個的確有歷史上的意義如果開放給外界那我想這個要有一個程序那程序這部分申請是不是請那個署長來回答好 OK"},{"start":11653.633,"end":11668.786,"text":"委員好 這個根據我們監獄信用法裡面這個外界來參觀是有規定的只要他提前提示申請在我們上班時間內對不對 不要有未成年未成年就是要有相當的關乎人的同意等等那其他的話只要他配我們的規定我們都同意他來參觀的"},{"start":11669.747,"end":11684.815,"text":"OK 好 好就是演繹一套啦因為這是牽涉到不宜移植的這個參觀這個參觀是跟一般的參觀監所是不一樣的意義喔好 那另外想請教的是說這個按照促轉條例第十一條之二"},{"start":11685.675,"end":11708.457,"text":"法務部於促轉會解散後要直施平復司法不法行政不法跟識別及處置加害者的事項但是我們就促轉條例第六條第一項第六條之一還有關平復行政不法這個內容目前只有處理到哪裡就是侵害人民生命"},{"start":11709.318,"end":11713.362,"text":"人身自由跟剝奪其財產所有權的處分跟事實行為就對於人民其他憲法上的基本權這個沒有進一步的平復行政不法的作為所以之前我們辦公室有所知向法務部請求說明"},{"start":11727.956,"end":11747.513,"text":"那法務部我覺得你們雖主責平復行政不法這個認定可是你們卻沒有正面回復說是否該修促轉條例的與權利回復條例那針對其他就是憲法上基本權受行政權侵害的這個太陽"},{"start":11748.393,"end":11775.348,"text":"你懂我的意思嗎就例如說我們像海外黑名單像我泡泡你這邊有寫像海外黑名單居住遷徙自由啊不法監聽這是牽涉到秘密通訊自由或書禁報禁牽涉到言論跟出版自由中斷人民升學日稱教授教權等等可是這些都沒有獲得法務部行政不法的平反所以不曉得請部長怎麼看就這些是不是我剛提的這些是不是也是行政不法"},{"start":11776.638,"end":11787.484,"text":"這部分我是不是請法治司司長因為他是專責的一個主管司是我想他可以針對委員的關心的問題來做一個回應好那司長"},{"start":11788.525,"end":11814.844,"text":"委員好我想我簡單的跟委員回覆一下那其實陳如委員講的我們辦理這個貧富行政不法的部分也是依照這三個類型包括生命跟人身自由還有財產的剝奪的部分那其實我們是執行這些貧富的審查那我們就依照這個法律來處理那陳如剛才委員講的這些那我們認為說這個可能也是涉及到這些所謂的真正的一個行政不法的部分但是礙於這個現在法律上面這個規定"},{"start":11815.905,"end":11842.158,"text":"那我們目前在處理上面就是只有這三種類型那至於是不是要修法的部分我想這個部分因為我們不是主管這個法規的主管機關那這個是行政院人權署人權及行政一處的這個主管機關那我想可能或許有機會的話我們會跟去反映這個問題但是目前為止的話我們還是依照只有這三個類型來做行政評判那以上跟委員說明"},{"start":11843.078,"end":11848.842,"text":"因為現行法令確實是只對剛剛提的這三樣那可是我是覺得這個態樣其實相當多他應該 就部長你也認為嘛他也是屬於行政不法的一個態樣所以應該是要全面性的來做平反好 那我想就是我剛剛提的這個生命人身自由跟財產所有權這個以外的這個憲法上基本的權利在現行的這個平復行政不法確實沒有辦法獲得平復所以我覺得若不是透過修法"},{"start":11871.556,"end":11892.264,"text":"那就是要透過其他的方式那修法當然是一個最直接的方式那如果說這些權力如果在威權統治時代沒有受到不法侵害那我覺得我們法務部其實是有責任來考量它的平復的方式那所以就如同我簡報這個論文"},{"start":11893.744,"end":11910.473,"text":"這個論文是一個研究行政不法的論文他的結語有顯到他說必須透過修法的明定更多行政不法的態樣那使這個制度足以包容歷史上的多樣且複雜的受害情境部長你就這句話這句話你同意齁"},{"start":11911.82,"end":11930.844,"text":"我們在這個同意那個委員的一個高見是好那最後啦還是希望法務部內部加強這個公務人員的轉行正義教育訓練因為之前行政院頒獎我們只有調查局有得獎那其他單位一起加油好嗎謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝林委員好那接下來我們有請鄭正前委員"},{"start":11940.888,"end":11952.549,"text":"郑正前委员郑正前委员不在谢一凤委员谢一凤委员谢一凤委员不在苏清泉委员苏清泉委员"},{"start":11954.191,"end":11980.19,"text":"蘇星泉委員蘇星泉委員不在傅坤祺委員傅坤祺委員傅坤祺委員傅坤祺委員不在鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在洪孟凱委員洪孟凱委員"},{"start":11981.581,"end":12000.622,"text":"洪孟楷委員 洪孟楷委員不在好 那今天我們所有登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢 詢答結束那委員質詢的時候所要求提供相關資料或者是以書面答覆者就請相關機關盡速地送交個別委員以及本會"},{"start":12004.519,"end":12020.723,"text":"蔡其昌委員 徐宇珍委員 傅坤琦委員都有提書面質詢就列入記錄並刊登公報也請相關機關要以書面答覆本日的會議就進行到此結束明天上午九點鐘我們就繼續開會現在就休息 謝謝大家"},{"start":12028.612,"end":12052.25,"text":"好的開始今天沒有抽12點這是唯一一次沒有抽12點所以稍微不是很有效率不是是今天大家覺得還好沒有什麼太多的議題希望這個會期我們能夠積極的通過一些大家關心的法案然後朝野都有共識的法案我們也會這裡會積極加緊推動"},{"start":12054.867,"end":12063.882,"text":"小額貪污的那個我們一定會推喔所以你們真的要加速繳出喔因為這是蠻多委員都會關心的然後休眠法 特留份"}]}},{"id":"167636","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167636","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053a69b33bb09ba4e0675f3d6415d2a29ea997b7b3c5b8577b3d4923c6205c677e65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪毓祥","委員發言時間":"11:51:34 - 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你們砍的啊砍的叫做軟體研發素產署 這個是不是請素產署來說明一下不用啦 部長說明 站著就好來 下一個AI新十大建設推動方案這是你負責的吧哪一塊我們負責是那個AI軟體產業登發軟體產業巔峰嘛我再問你你那五十萬個高薪的就業階段 高薪怎麼定義"},{"start":176.3,"end":193.905,"text":"50萬個高薪就有機會這個我們是不是請素產署來說明人才的部分嗎你現在講的是人才還是你們寫的這是你們行政院的報告對這個這個好像不是我們書發部這個所以書發部不用高薪就對了好這個是什麼經濟部產發署經濟部產發署來下一個台灣人要軟體機會在哪裡"},{"start":207.278,"end":227.423,"text":"跟委員報告台灣軟體世上有很強的軟體產業像趨勢訓練 完美移動你想說舊的 有沒有新的對 我們現在就是我們速發部透過五大政策工具我講的公司都比你還新對不起我講的公司都搞不好還比你還新對啊 我要講新的公司我還可以講講啊講啊"},{"start":233.08,"end":236.467,"text":"亞太智能然後像那個Appear然後我們這個"},{"start":237.932,"end":267.535,"text":"在這邊我們要比說要講說多新的公司我去看工商證件我告訴你AI軟體產業發展機會在哪裡我不太理解我都可以講的比你還好那委員請講那是你當部長還是我當部長因為我不瞭解你的問題在哪裡啊你就問了問問題你問譬如說問那個軟體產業我就問軟體產業來回答你現在要負責AI軟體產業的規定沒錯然後你自己不曉得AI軟體產業發展的策略成功機會在哪裡我都要講我今天已經獎勵整天了已經整個早上了你現在給我"},{"start":268.138,"end":268.786,"text":"你10秒啊 講啊"},{"start":270.137,"end":283.626,"text":"對我們就是我跟你講就是我們五大政策工具就是算力資料人才我說軟體機會在那不是講你的政策工具軟體機會就是我講的全世界都是這樣軟體產業的創新突破與發展"},{"start":300.357,"end":327.353,"text":"我現在答的就是 我現在講的就是軟體產業每一中國的軟體產業 每一個國家都在做這件事情不是由中國共產黨 什麼叫中國共產黨中國共產黨叫什麼 我怎麼定義 你怎麼定義軟體智慧你在講什麼東西啊我在講的是說這個是 你就告訴我 台灣人發展在Vertical Domain就好了就是一個智慧製造 或者是智慧醫療 所以你要怎麼去做嘛"},{"start":329.536,"end":352.212,"text":"連這種東西都回答不出來再問你 主管 環境產業 AI實現活動加速663多少家我們是在做實體的討論 我一整個早上產值是多少 你有沒有掌握 員工人數是多少你要先掌握嘛 掌握之後你才知道台灣的整個ecosystem的定位在什麼地方這個都不做"},{"start":356.827,"end":377.445,"text":"譬如說你那個加速好了加速我想您是專家您在知社會工作過那麼久那個軟體公司有大有小有新有舊有的公司我剛剛問得很清楚財政部那邊都查得到主辦區那邊也查得到6263我只問你當一個部長是不是對這些的產業狀況了解軟體產業是不是你管的是或不是"},{"start":379.178,"end":400.333,"text":"軟體產業是我管的而且我來自於軟體產業界我也來自軟體產業界啊是啊對啊然後呢是啊所以我當然知道軟體產業界是什麼就是問你家數多少產值多少員工人數多少你就是想說這個這個財政部俊修回答好了財政部都查得到的事情你為什麼問書發部呢不好意思軟體的安置為6263416000多家是對結束了產值的話應該是現在是8000多億這樣"},{"start":408.177,"end":417.828,"text":"差不多我為什麼會這樣問就是你要對這東西了解嘛才能去定啊啊不了解定什麼"},{"start":419.955,"end":445.141,"text":"我懶得跟你吵了 來這邊省紀部的一個調查報告T-Rod的連結率MyData甚至還牽扯到你台灣主權AI訓練的語料庫然後另外你們講的促進資料的一個創新利用發展條例這些我都認為很重要也該做那我是希望你就是把T-RodMyData這個使用率再提高因為起碼要串通嘛那你資料串通之後我們才有辦法去運用嘛"},{"start":446.428,"end":463.582,"text":"然後另外你們兩個在提的你們報告二跟三這兩點我希望可以趕快好不好送一些規劃報告來給我這樣子看好最後我就不想問了啦反正呢看起來就是長這個樣子好我們謝謝洪義祥委員"}]}},{"id":"167631","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167631","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053fb47ab9087129056b086282839459da0997b7b3c5b8577b3bf8cd4fcca9df8855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"11:51:23 - 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有請鄭部長部長早 今天本席想要跟您討論轉型正義的這個議題法務部現在轄管的有兩處不予以指一個就是法務部矯正署的這個新電介製所還有太原監獄那禮儀呢 我們其實都要完成文化部不予以指的標示作業"},{"start":37.333,"end":47.758,"text":"不過他的前身作為國防部台灣軍人監獄的新店介製所他有先做了一些線上環境的導覽這點在轉型正義的工程上其實值得肯定的"},{"start":53.28,"end":75.125,"text":"那我首先想請教的是已經沒有一共的這個太原改訓監獄是否有規劃就是像這個軍人監獄這個新建制所感冠會同文化部來進行所謂的線上環境這個導覽的建制有沒有這樣的研議的這個計畫"},{"start":77.783,"end":85.468,"text":"這部分我們在了解 目前我們倒是還沒有但是有的這是不亦已止這部分當然我們會再重視委員關係的我們會來了解那因為針對這個實體的空間當然我們不方便開放就是說這個隨進隨出參觀的部分所以部長我是聽你講就是說我們怎麼讓民眾進行歷史補課"},{"start":103.962,"end":130.277,"text":"所以因為新店跟太原這兩處都關押過政治犯所以譬如說如果說可以開放給團體這個定時定點的導覽這個不曉得部長認為可行嗎因為這兩個監所現在都使用中我想這個的確有歷史上的意義如果開放給外界那我想這個要有一個程序那程序這部分申請是不是請那個署長來回答好 OK"},{"start":133.684,"end":148.837,"text":"委員好 這個根據我們監獄信用法裡面這個外界來參觀是有規定的只要他提前提示申請在我們上班時間內對不對 不要有未成年未成年就是要相當的關乎人的同意等等那其他的話只要他配我們的規定我們都同意他來參觀的"},{"start":149.838,"end":160.421,"text":"OK 好 好就是言語一套啦因為這是牽涉到不宜移植的這個參觀這個參觀是跟一般的參觀監所是不一樣的意義喔好 那另外想請教的是說齁這個按照促轉條例第十一條之二"},{"start":165.723,"end":188.492,"text":"法務部於促轉會解散後要直施平復司法不法行政不法跟識別及處置加害者的事項但是我們就促轉條例第六條第一項第六條之一它有關平復行政不法這個內容目前只有處理到哪裡就是侵害人民生命"},{"start":189.372,"end":191.975,"text":"人身自由跟剝奪其財產所有權的處分跟事實行為就對於人民其他憲法上的基本權這個沒有進一步的平復行政不法的作為所以之前我們辦公室有所知向法務部請求說明"},{"start":207.992,"end":227.327,"text":"那法務部我覺得你們雖主責平復行政不法這個認定可是你們卻沒有正面回復說是否該修促轉條例的與權利回復條例那針對其他就是憲法上基本權受行政權侵害的這個太陽"},{"start":228.427,"end":255.399,"text":"你懂我的意思嗎就例如說我們像海外黑名單像我泡泡你這邊有寫像海外黑名單居住遷徙自由啊不法監聽這是牽涉到秘密通訊自由偶爾輸進報竟然牽涉到言論跟出版自由中斷人民升學是稱叫受教權等等可是這些都沒有獲得法務部行政不法的平反所以不曉得請部長怎麼看就這些是不是我剛提的這些是不是也是行政不法"},{"start":256.689,"end":267.538,"text":"這部分我是不是請那個法治司司長因為他是專責的一個一個主管司是我想他可以針對委員的關心的問題來做一個回應好好那市長"},{"start":268.576,"end":294.955,"text":"委員好我想我簡單的跟委員回覆一下那其實陳如委員講的我們辦理這個貧富行政不法的部分也是依照這三個類型包括生命跟人身自由還有財產的剝奪的部分那其實我們是執行這些貧富的審查那我們就依照這個法律來處理那陳如剛才委員講的這些那我們認為說這個可能也是涉及到這些所謂的真正的一個行政不法的部分但是礙於這個現在法律上面這個規定"},{"start":295.936,"end":322.197,"text":"那我們目前在處理上面就是這三種類型那至於是不是要修法的部分我想這個部分因為我們不是主管這個法規的主管機關那這個是行政院人權署人權及行政役處的這個主管機關那我想可能或許有機會的話我們會跟去反映這個問題但是目前為止的話我們還是依照只有這三個類型來做行政平反那以上跟委員說明"},{"start":322.597,"end":328.221,"text":"當然 因為現行法令確實是只對剛剛提的這三樣可是我是覺得這個態樣其實相當多他應該 就部長你也認為嘛他也是屬於行政不法的一個態樣所以應該是要全面性的來做平反好 那我想就是我剛剛提的這個生命人身自由跟財產所有權這個以外的這個憲法上基本的權利在現行的這個平復行政不法確實沒有辦法獲得平復所以我覺得若不是透過修法"},{"start":351.596,"end":372.175,"text":"那就是要透過其他的方式那修法當然是一個最直接的方式那如果說這些權利如果在威權統治時代沒有受到不法侵害那我覺得我們法務部其實是有責任來考量它的平復的方式那所以就如同我簡報這個論文"},{"start":373.776,"end":390.524,"text":"這個論文是一個研究行政不法的論文他的結語有顯到齁他說必須透過修法的明定更多行政不法的太樣那使這個制度足以包容歷史上的多樣且複雜的受害情境部長你就這句話這句話你同意齁"},{"start":391.874,"end":408.905,"text":"這個我們在這個同意那個委員的一個一個一個高見是好那最後啦齁還是希望法務部內部加強這個公務人員的轉型正義教育訓練因為之前行政院頒獎我們只有調查局有得獎齁那其他單位一起加油好嗎謝謝謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"167630","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167630","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053a15c53e7cebdca9ef85a32efe0b6ef7a4d1c9dfa77de20986842c67834637c635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"11:48:39 - 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要不然沒水所以今年的春茶的一個"},{"start":245.969,"end":254.579,"text":"產量大概會受到很大的傷害甚至可能會需要農業部來關心所以這點我是覺得補充是不是說您應該說到茶區尤其是我們嘉義這邊大阿里山區的茶區是不是要去關心一下"},{"start":262.227,"end":280.87,"text":"我想我們一定的人努力喔特別我們茶開場的本身跟我們農糧署喔針對茶葉本身喔因為稍微一點點都沒給的人喔怎麼樣利用這種節水的這些這些噴罐來協助這個部分我想農水署跟茶開場都會來協助好 可能你真的要協助啦再來就是因為我們茶開場的一間廠長嘛沒有起來我一直持續在關心的就是說我們現在未來我們因為我們我們現在台灣的茶葉嘛大概"},{"start":291.772,"end":318.2,"text":"海拔都在 我們的這些試驗站都是低海拔的啦所以我們現在台灣就是少了一個高海拔的高山草的試驗站那過去在梅山我們有規劃的這個試驗站那後來說它的地勢的一個土質的一個問題那我們也願意去盤整新的一個地點然後來做未來的試驗站那大概現在有幾個方向可能是放在"},{"start":319.16,"end":322.062,"text":"學校的一個校園或者是過去的一些衛生所我知道最近縣府有跟查改產這邊又要去限定卸糠那如果卸糠起來沒有土質就是說之前的狀況的話部長你會支持我們這樣的一個試驗站嗎高山茶的一個試驗站"},{"start":338.053,"end":360.724,"text":"我覺得一定要支持因為梅山是唯一的高海拔的茶區那因為當時的一個規劃因為地質的關係沒有辦法在那邊蓋硬體所以我們現在選了學校或者是衛生所這邊當作我們的一個試驗基地那這個部分大概三月底大概會有一個初步的一個確認那確認以後我們就會往這個方向去走"},{"start":361.144,"end":380.579,"text":"好 所以你說3月底可以確認啦大概會確認那個時間 但是時間也是要換的就存在那一排嘛他們這一兩個禮拜就會上去看了那如果把它確認之後 後續的行政的一些流程就要麻煩補充 跟幫忙加速啊對 我想有些東西如果需要後續需要加一線政府協助的部分我想我們也會跟加一線政府來討論"},{"start":381.98,"end":402.245,"text":"鳳鯨 管護這裡有什麼需求 你也跟他說 我來協調一定全力配合啦因為地方的居民對於這樣的一個試驗站是非常的期待因為高山茶農 這是高山的地方就是在我們阿里山區嘛阿里山就是一個最適合的一個地方那我想這個很重要那第二個就是說"},{"start":405.266,"end":418.864,"text":"漢博你也說過很久了啦就是說破住這個罵拼市場罵拼市場當然說它經過幾次的一個調整那現在大概的方向就是說委由縣政府直接來執行就沒有像過去還要跟這個續產會這邊來"},{"start":422.809,"end":445.036,"text":"來做合作的一個合作經營那未來可能就是用縣政府來執行那中央市補助的一個方式那現在看起來就是說那如果我們照目前的規劃的話他的預算大概還是有不足的地方這部分部長你也支持我們因為在這個肉片市場我們過去為了執行我們都撐住了他以前的他拍賣都撐住了"},{"start":450.638,"end":474.481,"text":"那我們現在部長我們現在應該這一個案你們還是繼續支持那就只差這一個預算要把它補足的部分那這個到底什麼時候可以補足呢我跟委員報告齁就是在這個禮拜一齁在政務會議的時候我特別把這個鋪子的這屠宰場的部分齁在政務會議提到報告裡面那也得到一些行政院的這些認同跟肯定啦齁所以後續我想"},{"start":475.401,"end":495.316,"text":"會隨著國安會的一個審議那經費應該會如這邊所列的大概32億左右的部分去自應所以這個部分我想我們會持續的關切行政院這邊的一個核定的一個時程那我們希望說已經拖了好多年了嘛我希望說這個東西能夠盡快的能夠如期的來推動"},{"start":496.633,"end":513.995,"text":"對啦 不然這案就是很尷尬的就是說因為政策的有一些調整都在拆除之後如果我們在討論過程中我們先讓他繼續營運也許不會有這麼大的民怨因為你把以前的拍賣場拆除涉及到很多人被資遣"},{"start":514.956,"end":540.487,"text":"那後來因為又有政策的一些調整跟討論這沒有關係 政策難免說是越討論越精進不然畢竟我們這個董事長坐在前面造成這些人他的工作權被支錢了所以我還是希望我們快啦既然希望未來由縣政府來執行整個這個肉品市場的一個開發興建我們也是會快 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請回部陳部長你好"},{"start":22.062,"end":50.858,"text":"部長早安我想這個前一陣子到現在其實社會有一點不安的這樣子的一個情緒其實在於虐待動物的事件其實不斷的頻傳然後棒寶市長謝謝我想從這個嘉義水上鄉的非法繁殖場那我想這個在所有的非法繁殖場的一些虐待動物的一些樣態多元那這也是我們必須要當務自己要去解決的事情那一直到所謂的這個北港的從五樓丟下來的狗"},{"start":51.998,"end":58.663,"text":"還有在南港拖行好幾公尺的這樣子的一隻小黑一直到雲林六度犯案殺狗吃狗的無姓男子另外就是在2月初的時候大家一直從彰化的深港"},{"start":68.87,"end":89.985,"text":"一直在協詢這個渡告犬健康的一個案件甚至民間已經開始發起懸賞的這樣子的一個條件這懸賞的金額從民間開始發起已經高達了30萬要來找這隻受虐的動物但是一直到38天之後其實他們非常遺憾的找到的是一具頭骨破裂的白骨"},{"start":90.826,"end":111.34,"text":"那比對之後呢應該就是所謂的健康這他的名字那我想呢從這個四主皇稱他送養那到所謂的這個監視器畫面其實也有錄到疑似他提了一個不明的一個袋子那似乎就是要把這個狗狗已經遇害的這樣子的一個屍體帶走"},{"start":112.921,"end":133.354,"text":"但是呢大家對於所謂的弱勢動物受虐的這樣子的一個案件當務之急的就是要通報當地的這個不管是我們的動保處或者是我們的防疫所但是呢到最後這個彰化的洞房所第一時間雖然是開罰了三萬是開罰了三萬但對於所謂的失蹤的狗狗其實是完全束手無策"},{"start":139.418,"end":156.282,"text":"他們也不知道要從哪裡開始找起那最重要的一個原因就是動檢員他們沒有及時扣留動物跟強制進入私人場域的一個行政權這也就是這麼多年將近十幾年來大家不斷地在倡議所謂的動物警察也就是動保警察這樣子的一個編制"},{"start":159.583,"end":183.269,"text":"民間一直不斷的在倡議好我們退而求其次說現在因為警政署內政部那個地方對於所謂的這樣子的一個人員的人力的不足所以我們退而求其次在我們的動保法當中我們要賦予動檢員更多的執法的一些權利來解決這些當務之急但現在目前看起來請問全台灣的動檢員在各地不同的地方的動檢員請問是幾位"},{"start":188.68,"end":211.634,"text":"300不到358好那我想這個358要處理這麼多不同的通報的一個案件雖然其實這個會上一個會期其實我們在1月26號其實原本是有機會要繼續往下審動保法那這個部分其實我們賦予動檢員更多的一個執法權利其實也寫在這個修法的版本當中"},{"start":212.074,"end":236.254,"text":"那我個人也提出了我自己的版本那同時還有虐待動物的一個行動我們要把它繼續的往上拉高這些都是跨黨派的共識也是社會對大家的對這樣子事件的期待但很可惜因為我們當天就卡住了那沒有辦法繼續往下走那很多人在講說目前的這個窘境就是第一線的動检人員的人力的一個問題那我想當公職人員他們的榮譽感不再"},{"start":241.778,"end":256.95,"text":"如果只剩下所謂的血汗 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現在召委 是不是請我們這個部長 石部長好 有請石部長林委員好好 部長 我今天要跟你討論的是這個授受爭"},{"start":22.896,"end":26.658,"text":"那因為你們食藥署在今年的這個2月7號發布了一個新聞稿把這個近期國際新聞報導裡面美國有數千名GLP-1受體促效劑類品藥品使用者因嚴重副作用提起大規模訴訟而英國疾保健"},{"start":44.888,"end":71.617,"text":"產品管理局亦於近期發布安全警訊提醒該類藥品可能引發嚴重的急性胰臟癌的風險包含罕見的壞死性和致死性的胰臟炎的這個案例那大家都知道我們也有許可那我們最近通報的這個不良反應截至到去年年底為止是21件"},{"start":73.277,"end":95.803,"text":"那都還沒有觀測到大概整體性的藥品安全的問題大概21件而已但你們食藥署發布這個新聞大概是要提醒大家說這個東西部分是可以許可用於12歲以上但大多數都能限成人使用而且要符合需符合BMI等使用條件你們是這樣子提醒"},{"start":98.684,"end":104.809,"text":"所以你們這個新聞稿當然也有另外兩個重點 第一個就是說 網路販售違法第二個 這個全國藥物不良反應通報 兩年間21件那請問部長 你覺得目前你們說網路販售違法 那瘦瘦身在網路販售的猖獗的情形 你覺得嚴重嗎"},{"start":123.184,"end":125.026,"text":"主秘在質詢 抱歉我們暫停一下因為他干擾到我的質詢 抱歉"},{"start":135.741,"end":158.669,"text":"好 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那個社群是2000人的規模"},{"start":244.307,"end":246.29,"text":"那網友大概問說大概多少錢5MG的大概多少錢有沒有推薦北部的比較便宜的診所到處在缺貨跟版主拿的話很快就會拿得到大概都是這種問題要回應"},{"start":260.069,"end":263.891,"text":"那其實表面上好像大家在裡面詢問事實上版主也往往為了求真若可的人告訴大家說我這裡很多優惠的價格提供了購買的管道所以很多不肖業者在裡面滲入違法販售的很隱蔽的就在這個裡面"},{"start":279.94,"end":288.606,"text":"這還是眾多地下流通管道之一一個LINE群組就兩千多人顯然就使用者或是搜尋資訊者或是提供管道給徵者兩千多人一個LINE而已這只是其中一個你說記者寫得太過嚴重有沒有太過嚴重我覺得我是持保留啦"},{"start":303.285,"end":328.21,"text":"但是一般人你只要打開IG、FB、Trade、Dcard所有售售真的廣告都無所不在所以裡面都要詢問然後裡面的帳號真假不知道那些有人問問題有人健康諮詢、價格諮詢回答的人到底是誰也不知道身份是不是專家也不知道但是這些匿名的陌生者"},{"start":330.63,"end":344.064,"text":"還真相當起這種醫師啦回覆他人用藥的疑問從如何減輕副作用到真劑保存的方式來源不明的這一些到底是假醫師這些醫主"},{"start":346.167,"end":361.801,"text":"還經常錯誤擺出然後到底說我針劑已經打了我可以放多久打開的已經使用過的針劑可以再放一個月嗎有人就說我的醫師告訴我可以放三四個月在那裡不斷的分享"},{"start":363.047,"end":365.088,"text":"這樣的方法會不會出問題會喔 這是處方藥大家都知道處方藥要醫師評估 學問病史才能夠取得但是在網路社群上 賣家不去醫師資格那沒有見面 毫無門檻 直接流通成交買賣"},{"start":386.997,"end":408.674,"text":"然後賣家的話術也不是專業性 讓消費者使用的風險增加很多啊可是呢 記者還報導 他透過這個社群接觸到其中一名版主 自稱是職業的藥師所以他有管道可以輕易拿得到這個真品 藥品"},{"start":409.915,"end":427.785,"text":"四年間他從在FB上販售瘦瘦針現在轉向LINE的社群賣猛煎了社群人數破千他說有人38公斤也想買他說我是覺得有點病態不建議他打但是我最後還是賣給他"},{"start":429.686,"end":439.67,"text":"王先生表示現在他也知道因為他藥師嘛他知道這樣子在社群上販賣藥品是違法但他還是希望能趁這個機會趕快多賺一點錢欸 這只是網路平台欸一個社群幾千人每個人都有幾千人啦欸 網路平台那還有沒有其他管道還有沒有其他違法的管道在販賣就你所知部長 還有嗎"},{"start":457.483,"end":460.065,"text":"這個我就不清楚不清楚我告訴你還有去年12月有一個獨家新聞華航的空服員從日本私自夾帶大量的猛劍熱入境沒有申報的12盒回台的時候被松山機場海關查獲然後沒收了全部然後也依要事法移送法辦這個東西是日本代購回來還有一種是真的是代購網頁"},{"start":485.541,"end":504.521,"text":"境外我剛剛講的是除了社群在境內購買以外現在是境外回來的很多耶境外回來的所以你們都沒有掌握有沒有特殊的職業或集團違法的從境外攜帶入境為什麼要去境外攜帶入境為什麼"},{"start":508.404,"end":510.305,"text":"比較便宜因為無獨有 每一個國家定價都不一樣而且包裝也不一樣網路上流傳日本代購售售真更便宜所以"},{"start":525.43,"end":546.659,"text":"平行輸入水貨來了然後呢蒙建勒為例連日本是周拋型的獨立分裝的一支單次使用的台灣是一支分四次嘛所以都看得出來看包裝蒸汽多少量就知道是日本的還是台灣的都看得出來"},{"start":547.899,"end":565.016,"text":"那我們現在看到這樣第一個境外輸入不是只有這樣子還有一個是跨境網站購買售售真日本的但是是跨境的網站代購日本的商品"},{"start":565.68,"end":587.667,"text":"的網站所以這個裡面標榜日本進口的代購網站可以看一下嗎不僅有日本實體店鋪的資訊和公司的簡介還附有完整購買說明和注意事項這些網站試圖將代購流程包裝的好像他們是透明的正規的合法的"},{"start":588.647,"end":603.115,"text":"還有代購的網路賣家毫不避諱地提出沒關係我還可以幫你安排在日本代看診讓日本醫師開藥再把藥寄回台灣你看這個代購網站叫什麼KUWA在這裡代購他會幫你買日本直送你看客戶評價"},{"start":614.255,"end":637.985,"text":"下訂三天就送到台灣了啊這個只有日文以外再來就繁體製他的網頁只有兩個版本日文跟繁體製為台灣專門架設的然後點開門見樂的頁面客戶評價都是台灣消費者看一下全部都是台灣的然後呢然後呢部長他這個"},{"start":644.003,"end":665.629,"text":"從日本就直接輸入進來了以這樣的方式購買藥品郵寄到台灣是合法的嗎這個當然違法那食藥署有沒有在處理呢這很廣泛耶普遍耶食藥署有在處理嗎不合法你說不合法當然不合法有在管理嗎你不知道這個我們要檢討好我現在告訴你"},{"start":671.584,"end":686.453,"text":"你們人家記者去採訪了食藥署藥品組組長王淑芬組長表示該網站監察IP是在國外的境外公司政府沒有管轄權跟調查權難以開罰"},{"start":690.575,"end":713.868,"text":"但是如果一旦接獲通報因為藥物可能的安全疑慮還是會有所以會把 不是 他是說如果未來藥物本身有安全的疑慮你們食藥署就會把相關資訊放在食藥署的食藥碰瘋廣告專區所以會善盡提醒國人注意產品的安全和品質欸 寶丁你剛才這個網站很有名"},{"start":718.971,"end":726.334,"text":"它不是那個第一次 這個網站不是第一次2024年在COVID-19的時候 他們販賣莫拉皮拉韋的藥品 販賣過但食藥署的管理方式就說 好 你們這是碰瘋廣告我把你放在專區給大家知道 就沒了"},{"start":743.166,"end":745.246,"text":"然後2025年我在這裡也質詢過這個網站他們在賣什麼史蒂諾斯然後我在這裡質詢說這個是"},{"start":757.276,"end":773.707,"text":"是問題網路上違法販賣這麼嚴重當時食藥署也是說這境外網站無法可管就蓄以為夷的立委這樣子消極怠惰的態度難怪境外網站行李這家好"},{"start":774.708,"end":783.536,"text":"也賣得很好鑽羊藥也賣得很好安眠藥也賣得很好抗COVID-19抗病毒的莫拉皮拉維當時也賣得很好現在授受針也賣得很好我們現在是沒有政府嗎你們只顧著境外網站沒有辦法管理 開發不到"},{"start":801.601,"end":817.576,"text":"阿的雙手一攤嗎跟委員說明我們也已經關注到這個電商平台或者是這個網路上販賣的這個問題所以我們近期就會提出要事法的修法把它納入管理"},{"start":818.177,"end":823.979,"text":"那不管是用強制下架這句話我已經聽了快一年了因為我在2022年諮詢史蒂諾斯的時候2022年我諮詢史蒂諾斯的時候你們就這樣子講了而且你們本來說都沒有境外網站沒有辦法管結果我去年提了預算凍結案你們就馬上找相關單位來屏蔽了那個網站有一個假的史蒂諾斯台灣官方網站你們就馬上給它屏蔽掉了"},{"start":845.326,"end":865.624,"text":"現在是整個其他的不只是賣這個的還有就是什麼都賣的 哭啊的你們就不敢屏蔽掉如果蝦皮你也不敢屏蔽掉所以呢 容許這樣的跨境網站我覺得政府現在是睜一隻眼閉一隻眼然後說要修法也已經講了一年了版本也沒有拿出來"},{"start":866.665,"end":885.059,"text":"食藥署回答我本來說都沒有辦法管後來怎麼網站就屏蔽掉了只要要給他凍結預算馬上就有效率把那個網頁屏蔽掉了這樣的違法只是這樣子嗎只是這樣子嗎這樣違法的行徑延伸的醫療問題有哪些啊"},{"start":886.74,"end":912.034,"text":"網路上亂購代購境外輸入然後我們的藥局沒有處方籤藥局直接可以買得到然後就是這樣子亂很亂啊所以這個台大醫院內分泌新陳代謝科的主治醫師李洪源質疑同樣的藥物能用更便宜的價格取得其中的原因和風險相當不可控台大醫院"},{"start":912.614,"end":933.284,"text":"嘉義部兼任組織醫師年曉欣也強調這種藥品來源不明無法確認真為P號效期成分也沒有經過食藥署檢測不知道有沒有符合台灣的衛生法規所以這個在這種運送的過程有沒有變質保存是不是完整有沒有被稀釋掉"},{"start":934.384,"end":950.771,"text":"如果這麼容易可以跨國帶來帶去世界級的藥廠為什麼還要耗費資金做冷鏈處理這風險很大我現在講這一段是說所有的很多醫生都出來講即使這樣子的跨國境外輸入風險很大風險很大"},{"start":953.976,"end":972.321,"text":"那為什麼還是這麼大量而政府都沒有管那除跨國網路我剛剛講了藥局和診所的無處方籤販售無處方籤販售的問題真的就這一篇媒體的報導其實也是很嚴重"},{"start":974.023,"end":981.391,"text":"三名記者主動提供自己的BMI他們的BMI是16到19分別致電到藥局的實體諮詢結果發現其中幾間藥局並沒有拒絕販售也沒有按照流程索取處方簽"},{"start":990.581,"end":1002.495,"text":"所以這樣子這樣子在民眾眼中大家認為很專業的為健康把關的也有藥局勢直接就賣了像賣OK棒一樣的賣了那我現在要講說保證保證這個問題真的"},{"start":1013.971,"end":1033.316,"text":"所以我們從兩個方向來跟委員報告第一個我們在上半年我們就會提出修法的版本現在已經我看了差不多了所以我們接下來就會開始來做預告所以上半年我們就會提出那個關於這個網路平台的這個管理的修法網路平台以外的呢代購的呢"},{"start":1034.016,"end":1040.481,"text":"日本代購的呢 日本境外輸入人呢然後沒有處方簽的藥局就販售呢我還沒有講一個 還有一個醫美診所 欸有醫師欸欸你看這醫美診所的廣告醫美診所的廣告 欸你感覺直接就無選醫 你到我這個醫美診所來我就免費送你 馬上打蒙健樂體驗一次"},{"start":1060.963,"end":1085.48,"text":"當然醫美診所大家都知道這個已經有違法了這個要請醫師師交代給衛生局去查處這個已經有違法違反我們醫療法的廣告了這個免費促銷這個不行了就已經這樣醫美診所授受針的流通方式比我們想像中的更彈性沒有一整支的藥可以賣那這個體驗醫治可能是一支打四個人"},{"start":1086.741,"end":1090.725,"text":"一支打四個人欸 換個針頭就繼續打四個人欸醫美診所 然後沒有處方簽就可以施打 贈送 免費體驗在這種 我就想說 我們再這樣下去你會覺得要釋法 就等於是擺著好看的啦"},{"start":1109.008,"end":1136.065,"text":"不是只有你剛剛講的網站上販售日本的怎麼辦醫美這些怎麼辦還有另外一個就是通路就是要去掌握這個藥商供應到哪裡去所以我們會把這個流向掌握出來所以如果他的這個流向是藥商供應給藥局是正常的所以藥局就要有一定的處方簽要能夠讓我們查核不然他就是違法販賣"},{"start":1137.306,"end":1151.713,"text":"你們沒有在稽查量跟處方簽對不對得起來不知道啦醫美診所更難啦但我的意思是說欸這樣大家打圈當然都沒有人出事嘛只有21件一年兩年21件看起來好像都沒出事欸"},{"start":1156.231,"end":1167.017,"text":"不良反應件數只有21件然後我們大家在催上面你隨便搜尋猛健樂不舒服划一分鐘的螢幕都比21件還要多部長你們的查處只有21件我剛剛講的在網路上隨便划一分鐘猛健樂不舒服搜尋都比21件還要多"},{"start":1180.572,"end":1183.753,"text":"這個問題是什麼你知道嗎 這個問題是什麼我剛剛講的 代購進來的委託從日本境外輸入的醫美診所免費體驗的藥局沒有廚房間買的然後在賴群組集體購買的這些人打了出事了請問藥害補償救濟可以去通報嗎他可以去通報不良反應嗎 可以嗎"},{"start":1209.175,"end":1232.535,"text":"他們有資格這些違法管道取得的他們可以去通報不良反應嗎可以嗎不良反應的話都可以通報就是說如果你是在醫療端發現的因為我們的通報是從醫療端通報不是民眾的各自通報所以如果你是因為不舒服去就醫醫療端發現說是因為打這個藥產生的後面他就會通報"},{"start":1236.978,"end":1256.48,"text":"通報以後那個當事人是不是有違法這個就要看後面 因為通報只是處理這個那通報了以未來的醫藥害救濟的話他可以試用嗎醫藥害救濟現在目前是兩種一種是按試印證使用的可以救濟第二個是of label use"},{"start":1257.52,"end":1264.385,"text":"是醫師認為有使用必要的時候那個最先前提要架構合法使用吧這些都不合法的所以你現在把最前提叫要合法使用像off-label use的或者是他適應症的有符合的都可以申請你沒有講最核心第一句要合法取得合法醫師給你使用的才有"},{"start":1279.816,"end":1294.99,"text":"而我剛剛講的一個君主就兩千了每天代購不曉得幾千的違法在藥局買的一枚免費給你體驗的事實上要害就是通通都不能夠申請不能夠申請他還會給你通報嗎不會通報了搞不好還有法律責任要問責"},{"start":1303.271,"end":1315.928,"text":"但是這個問題你們做了什麼我的意思是說2月食藥署的新聞講了說美國數千名嚴重副作用他連嚴重副作用是什麼都沒講"},{"start":1317.25,"end":1332.413,"text":"然後講英國政府發布了安全警訊嚴重異狀炎壞死和致死性的異狀炎這個東西我們的政府都沒有正宗歧視告訴大家多嚴重"},{"start":1333.374,"end":1351.639,"text":"那如果你打了有什麼症狀要怎麼反應那美國這個幾千人4400名的病患去提告從18歲到87歲你知道你知道多嚴重嗎我們政府都沒有告訴人家多嚴重是新聞報導而已"},{"start":1353.579,"end":1371.626,"text":"你們的食藥署跟他說美國數千人使用者因嚴重副作用提起大規模訴訟你們食藥署連告訴大家警告大家這個問題有多嚴重都不願意做75%的人主張有胃麻痺表現為嚴重延緩胃排空有人被診斷為嚴重或永久性的胃麻痺或胃清癱"},{"start":1378.368,"end":1405.098,"text":"然後腸主色腸梗色有人手術有人結腸破裂嚴重嘔吐就不講還有眼睛與神經發生問題包括突發性的視力喪失心的色盲或眼部血流中斷還有其他不良反應包括腎靜脈血栓或肺栓塞有死亡案例這個是可是一般人不會覺得我肺栓塞我血栓"},{"start":1406.639,"end":1416.413,"text":"是跟達蒙建勒有關啊政府也沒有對外公告啊也沒有實證啊但美國的案子是這樣子你們為什麼連這個資訊都這麼的這麼的保守不願意"},{"start":1421.58,"end":1448.67,"text":"這樣子輕輕的帶過一筆帶過都不願意提醒台灣而且台灣有這麼多違法在使用違規在使用的新聞稿輕描淡寫的嚴重副作用是政府的立場還是藥廠的立場你們這麼多問題就只用一個美國這些使用者有嚴重副作用五個字帶過這是要代表政府的立場還是符合藥廠的利益"},{"start":1452.812,"end":1467.504,"text":"還可以這樣做嗎?不行啦我知道是不行啦有一個加醫科醫師王子允因為他媒體有報導所以我就直接就講出來了他說他這些問題讓他聯想到減重手術這個醫生說我常常"},{"start":1474.87,"end":1491.316,"text":"說應該抱著必死的覺悟去接受手術因為死亡對個人或家屬來講只是0跟1那很多人不管用藥或手術都是心存僥倖覺得手術同意書或是訪單上的副作用不會發生在自己身上所以民眾心存僥倖跟醫師淡化風險跟安全保證就是這些悲劇發生的原因"},{"start":1497.338,"end":1503.141,"text":"對藥廠而言他們的工作只有砸錢研究跟研發還有用研究結果申請藥證只負責把可能的副作用寫出來已經有兩個藥廠並不負責民眾的心態跟醫生的話術所以這個王醫師講到說已經有兩個身心科醫師連有他的朋友不斷的反應他們因為身心科嘛所以會有人問求診嘛"},{"start":1524.71,"end":1548.646,"text":"身心科醫生說 又遇到一位達蒙健那一個月發現沒有性慾 沒有活力 然後新發生憂鬱的患者真心建議開瘦瘦針的醫師 要積極追蹤患者的心理狀態所以不是只有生理上的憂鬱症 沒有活力 然後沒有性慾"},{"start":1550.542,"end":1553.003,"text":"我今天這個問題的質詢不是反對民眾去使用也不是政府要不要反對減重治療而是一個本來應該要嚴格管理的處方藥"},{"start":1568.789,"end":1586.631,"text":"正在被醫美化商品化網路化甚至地下化而主管機關卻還停留在被動的提醒零星的通報還有事後回應的層次這個才是我們憂心的廚房要這樣子在社群這樣子賣然後"},{"start":1589.111,"end":1613.96,"text":"醫事管理 醫療倫理 用藥安全的防線全部全面的在鬆動更嚴重的是這樣泛濫的違法的流通和錯誤的使用風險食藥署公布的不良反應通報卻低的不成比例這到底是真的沒問題還是代表我們的整個監督監測的機制根本就沒有真正的反映出這個社會正在發生的醫療風險"},{"start":1618.582,"end":1622.945,"text":"所以國外這樣的潛力 那我們政府到底要怎麼樣你有沒有盤點 這三年授受針違法販售違法輸入沒有處方給藥診所拆分施打 這些醫美診所免費施打這一些查處有沒有 開罰有沒有 我想是沒啦再來"},{"start":1641.056,"end":1658.276,"text":"社群平台跨境網站地下代購以及診所藥局違規違法亂象你們到底要怎麼管理具體上我想你們也還沒有那在這種已經發生問題了真的有副作用了違法使用他真的有副作用了他要怎麼辦"},{"start":1659.517,"end":1680.552,"text":"他能怎麼辦 那政府該怎麼辦我們應該要怎麼辦我今天是提醒大家啦因為授受真的商品這些藥品藥品商品化跟處方要把關失靈喔不是因為只有民眾有需求也不是因為只有社群平台助長了這個風潮其實背後很明確就是一個商業的結構"},{"start":1685.876,"end":1687.437,"text":"高單價高討論度而且要持續不斷回購的自費藥品當這個收益這麼可觀的時候市場自然就會傾向擴大它的消費傾向淡化它的風險包裝它的便利性"},{"start":1702.521,"end":1723.272,"text":"所以今天最需要被追究的不是業者賣得太過頭而已而是主管機關你在這個過程裡面有沒有扮演了一個消極縱容的角色如果政府沒有及時介入這些高風險的處方藥沒有主動查查 沒有清楚的揭露風險沒有對不當的行銷和灰色的流通"},{"start":1727.334,"end":1749.226,"text":"設下明確的界線那麼這種行政上的消極跟怠惰本身就成為藥品商品化的推手所以換句話說售售真不是自然成為變成商品化的而是在市場強力推動下政府消極怠惰的管理這狀況下一步一步的變成暢銷商品藥品變商品"},{"start":1752.87,"end":1755.935,"text":"這個顯然管理的強度都沒有了 促漲了藥品商品化我今天是要講這個"},{"start":1760.852,"end":1787.03,"text":"這樣你要怎麼做跟委員說明我們一個月會提出整個強化的管理措施出來請您放心措施要有行動要管理藥廠賺得很爽可是他們對風險其實是不在乎的而我們是在乎風險的但我們政府連掌握風險的能力都沒有企圖都沒有這才是大問題謝謝好 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先跟經濟部來做一個溝通我想剛剛其他的委員對於這個統裝瓦斯漲價的部分非常關心本行業應該要為基層百姓來發聲我想統裝瓦斯的部分經濟部這邊可不可以幫忙帶入相關的意見穩定相關的物價波動這部分統裝瓦斯漲價是不是能夠幫忙抑制一下經濟部"},{"start":49.201,"end":75.347,"text":"謝謝委員的指導我會把這個意見交給相關的生產供應公司好好謝謝那另外呢也要再銜接剛剛有一題我們陳主委我們剛剛賴委員其實對於這個賴總統曾經說過這個緊急命令可能會重啟核能來做一個備用那我們先不管這整個過程我想先預設一個立場假設今天"},{"start":76.567,"end":94.762,"text":"我們因為國際的地緣政治衝突的一個問題導致最後我們真的需要重啟核能瞬間要來這樣子的一個備用機組趕緊頂替上來相關的緊急使用的SOP你們準備好了嗎"},{"start":97.615,"end":114.493,"text":"因為剛剛都在探討所謂的緊急命令嘛那個要賴總統來宣布嘛我現在就直接問假設今天他真的必須宣布了核能要趕快啟動來接替我們相關不足的部分你們有沒有相關的SOP"},{"start":115.578,"end":142.738,"text":"所有的東西一定要合乎核能安全對我知道我知道你們一定會檢查檢驗嘛在核能安全無疑慮的情況之下才能夠啟動嘛我都知道但是你有沒有這樣子的SOP來應付緊急使用的一個過程不要說到時候賴總統宣布了緊急命令然後結果你們才說喔我來研擬一下SOP"},{"start":144.266,"end":149.185,"text":"現在已經有國際地緣政治的衝突了嘛那我們是不是有這樣的SOP 請回答"},{"start":150.678,"end":176.019,"text":"跟委員說明喔那如果要緊急使用當然首先當然一開始有說到要有法源依據喔那要緊急使用核能電廠跟一般的發電廠不太一樣因為如果核電廠平常就是台電公司平常要維持設備的可用性那相關的人員的運轉維護能力都要有這我知道最重要的就是核燃料那核燃料要有足夠"},{"start":176.9,"end":203.796,"text":"那這部分就是事先要準備好所以有沒有SOP啦回答我那安慰本身就有一些管制的程序平常都會有監控住所以如果他緊急要使用的時候你們就會打開這個SOP去跑這個流程平常我們就有一些管制的程序在會去監督他所以你只有管制嘛我現在是說啟動對 本來啟動就有一定的程序在監控所以你可以因應這樣子的狀態"},{"start":206.102,"end":230.78,"text":"是可以的可是那台電公司就事先都要一些準備作業出來當然嘛他一定會準備不可能說我下一秒緊急啟動你下一秒就開嘛你一定會啟動一個程序然後SOP的檢查然後最後通報無疑慮然後最後再開始重啟核能嘛對不對對吧所以有SOP你要跟社會大眾交代啊我們才不要說到時候遇到了完全沒辦法才來抵定"},{"start":231.801,"end":254.189,"text":"所以你給我的回應是有SOP編長都會監管著好好謝謝那主委另外一個我想我也一直很關心我們現在福島河廢水排放的一個問題感覺現在也只有我在持續追蹤這個議題那第六次的赴日實地觀察整個完整的報告已經公佈在網站上"},{"start":255.169,"end":281.934,"text":"這次你也親自出席相關的訪團這次參訪的名稱我們叫做參加第十一屆台日核能管制的資訊交流會議以及核能設施的一個參訪主委請問這一次我們交流的會議及核能的參訪相關的設施針對我國核二核三再運轉你們相關的意見傾向為何"},{"start":290.831,"end":317.48,"text":"不好意思是沒辦法回答還是我的問題太深報告委員因為這次我們去日本參訪主要是針對這個寒川廢水的議題來進行討論所以我們主委親自出席寒川廢水是一部分嘛再來你也有啊參訪核能設施啊看完別人的核能設施了嘛那你對我國現在核二核三的再運轉有沒有什麼意見啊"},{"start":319.527,"end":337.52,"text":"我們去參訪福島電廠看看他的這個災後重建的狀況以及寒川廢水我想旅費也花了意見交換了實地現場也看了那總要表態一下和二和三重啟你們是樂觀其成還是有所疑慮"},{"start":340.899,"end":360.067,"text":"我們會依法安全審查這回應就是太過官腔了主委我就簡單問你我們剛剛說的2025完成了非核家園對不對然後呢現在核核三要重啟叫做新核能"},{"start":361.209,"end":389.701,"text":"我想先請問一下核二核三重啟大概我們看到龔明新經濟部長有說過大概一年半的時間要整個流程過後請問一下重啟是檢查還是會順便太舊換新換成所謂的新式的核能機組還是原有的核能機組核二核三是原本的核二核三還是新核能是原本的核二核三他不是說新核能所以政府都騙我們這是新核能"},{"start":390.956,"end":394.99,"text":"合二合三就是合二合三就是原本原汁原味的合二合三嘛"},{"start":395.953,"end":420.063,"text":"所以我想現在日本目前正在積極的推動受污染的土壤在利用他們設置一個示範工程區其中一半是由正常的土壤來鋪設另外一半是受污染的土壤鋪設並進行相關的觀察還有測試在這一次第六次的一個赴日觀察報告第28頁"},{"start":421.443,"end":442.686,"text":"我方有提問 民眾對於道路提防示範工程的一個想法 日方回答得很坦白雖然政府努力推動 宣導 驗證 溝通但是民眾接受度仍面臨了不少的挑戰 換句話說就是日本政府承認"},{"start":444.028,"end":465.903,"text":"福岛相关土壤再利用受到现在整个日本社会还是有很大的疑虑如果连日本人对自己都还有这么多的疑虑我们政府在政策上却一路着急着开放福岛的食品我想真的台湾人啊最该用什么都不怕"},{"start":467.205,"end":479.803,"text":"報告第29頁也提到訪團第15日傍晚行程結束後有順道在福島周邊海域採集表層的海水樣品有沒有"},{"start":480.563,"end":495.447,"text":"有的待會台灣來做一個分析海水的穿跟放射性相關的來做檢驗結果顯示啊都在目前福島周邊海域環境活度的變動範圍內我想問一下主委"},{"start":499.329,"end":522.605,"text":"為什麼只採海水怎麼不順便採一下日本的土壤樣本回來檢測去都去了來都來了尤其土壤才是很多爭議的核心問題而且福島以及周邊地區的農產品是實際有出口到台灣的市面上是有可能已經被民眾吃下肚的你怎麼不順便採集土壤回來檢驗一下"},{"start":526.159,"end":554.133,"text":"報告委員那主要是我們採海水主要是因應那個日本有針對寒川廢水的排放而且是排放30年所以我們會定期我們會去關切它對於周遭的一個環境的影響所以我們會去採川水那至於委員所說的這個日本進口的食品這邊那因為這個是屬於那個食藥署的一個衛福部食藥署的一個職責食品的部分是食藥署對"},{"start":554.633,"end":577.361,"text":"我说你既然都去了采集土壤了解一下相关有没有核污染嘛这核安慰稍微了解一下嘛这不应该推给食药署嘛食品完食品我现在是对他们的核污染有没有所谓的污染土土壤的问题那一天你们已经有做土壤污染土的土壤工程防波堤的一个探讨了嘛"},{"start":578.061,"end":604.967,"text":"對不對就代表說你也關心所謂的污染土相關的示範工程那你怎麼不順便採集污染土呢不要跟我講說食品是食藥署我現在沒跟你講食品的問題跟委員報告一下這一個所謂的一些污染的污染的土壤其實在日本是做一個管制的要符合一些安全標準他們才會試出來去做這些的一個所以你的意思是說他不給你採集的機率很高"},{"start":605.567,"end":626.249,"text":"對 因為沒有 它就是本身就是一個受管制民眾也不能夠去做一個接觸的所以他們會有一個叫做儲屋中間的儲存設施那其實在剛剛講的那他們都是在做這個沒有嘛 你有沒有試著要採集被拒絕嘛你就回答我嘛還是說你真的沒想到你就直接坦白講"},{"start":627.685,"end":643.527,"text":"沒有想到因為這一次這個污染的土壤其實是主要是他們日本境內的一個議題所以我們沒關係我尊重你今天我們大膽坦白嘛你沒有想到要採集你剛剛承認嘛那沒有關係我沒有要責備"},{"start":644.488,"end":660.324,"text":"那是不是未來有第七次的機會第八次的機會來徵詢一下日方的意見我們是不是能夠採集這個土壤的部分來檢驗一下有沒有污染的外溢或者是相關的問題這部分主委你覺得可以嗎"},{"start":662.846,"end":691.569,"text":"我們會評估一下我希望不要評估啦因為第一除非日方拒絕第二站在我們現在核安會的一個立場我們為什麼要去看川就是我們關心核廢水排放相關的議題嘛那核廢水排放只有所謂的川的議題嗎汙染土也是我們應該關心的所以我要一直在講主委您覺得我今天講的這個議題值不值得您做參考"},{"start":692.537,"end":711.88,"text":"我們可以做參考了報告第35頁寫得很清楚東京電力每一批LPS的處理水要排放前樣品都會送到大雄分析研究中心做第三方檢驗確認穿以外的其他盒種都有低於排放標準如果分析結果不符合標準"},{"start":713.241,"end":727.945,"text":"現在大雄分析研究中心檢查分析的流程和儀器狀態必要時會同一批樣品再測一次確認如果復驗之後還是不符合就會立刻通報日本的經產省由經產省再進一步來調查決定後續怎麼處理針對第35頁的內容請問主委"},{"start":734.527,"end":746.646,"text":"針對復燕之後還是不符合日本經產省其應對措施如何是採取禁止排放批次的處理水還是有什麼樣的作為"},{"start":749.692,"end":778.121,"text":"報告委員那因為在報告上我們其實是關心的就是等於大酒分析實驗室內部的一個品質保證的一些程序那如果就像委員講的如果今天已經複合又是不合格送到經產省這一邊那我相信因為他們會有一個緊急的停止排放的一些相關的一個措施那這個也是他們的考量的一個點之一好緊急停止排放相關的措施是不是也麻煩你了解一下"},{"start":778.761,"end":799.595,"text":"相關的流程我們要知道要掌握啊對不對我們不能都永遠相信日方啊台日友好沒有問題啊但面對這些相關的核汙染我們要採取最高原則啊所以主委在報告第21頁日方問我們台灣在海域監測發現異常時怎麼應變我們的答覆是什麼"},{"start":801.957,"end":822.122,"text":"先確認數據正確性再透過台灣日本交流協會向日方確認有異常排放確認資訊無誤後才提到跨部會平台再由全責機關啟動後續的因應主委請問若發現異常後相關措施第一時間為什麼不是先預警發布通知國內禁食啊"},{"start":823.154,"end":850.721,"text":"反而是要先向日方來做確認若是藥品發現疑慮食藥署第一時間是先要求下架停用在調查原因我們怎麼會變成反過來問日方這是不是太尊重了不是說要你不尊重我們應該要先以守護食安為第一優先這個流程是不是應該要有所更正更正一下主委"},{"start":852.645,"end":870.952,"text":"報告委員那就是如果我們有發現確實是在復合之後有異常那我們第一時間一定是資訊公開那後續為什麼我們要去掌握日本的一個排放源頭因為我們知道日本其實跟台灣其實還是有一些距離的就像我們現在在追蹤那個海洋擴散"},{"start":871.832,"end":889.84,"text":"其實他現在還是以日本本州的東部為主所以在這一段的一個時間我們就會來去跟日方去做整個等於資訊的一個正確的一個查證我承認我們跟日方有一段的距離但是我也要講的是我們應該透過日方"},{"start":890.74,"end":908.948,"text":"能夠更準確更快速的資料回傳讓我們能夠有所判斷透過台灣日本交流協會轉給日方會不會要有一週兩週的時間還是一個月啊如果日方不回應呢那如果日方只說沒事我們就完全相信是這樣子的機制嗎"},{"start":910.7,"end":937.092,"text":"所以我還是一再強調台日友好但面對食品安全但面對核污染我們應該是優先保障國人這樣的流程我覺得很接受挑戰所以我希望流程應該要再做相關的檢討不是不相信日方而是我們有沒有機制第一優先把關這部分主委可不可以給我回應一下我們應該回來檢討一下"},{"start":939.226,"end":954.466,"text":"好 我也見過跨部會還有一些在座討論好 再回覆委員主委 最近何安慧這幾年原子能科普的一個推廣上其實做得不錯所以我想把科普的相關知識科研"},{"start":955.507,"end":978.483,"text":"成果安全管制的業務結合設計很多互動式的科普遊戲這兩年大型的科普展在雙北雲林新竹把資源帶進到地方讓更多學生家長有機會接觸請問科普展今年有沒有機會辦在台中讓中部的家長學生社會大眾也一樣有近距離接觸原子能科普的機會"},{"start":981.46,"end":1008.091,"text":"我們再批規一下 再恢復台中有科博館 科學園區 大專院校地方百貨公司 大型展演空間過去也多次辦相關的科普活動我想都沒有問題我是最後希望是不是主委能夠承諾一下來到台中我們會補一下好不好再回答哪時候給我回應對不起 最後一個問題哪時候給我回應"},{"start":1009.434,"end":1015.815,"text":"哪周啊一个月内一个月内好啊一个月好好谢谢好谢谢"}]}},{"id":"167638","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167638","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605370fc66548ecfe8b052e56fd78df8e650997b7b3c5b8577b378ef0510ede47c525ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"11:54:23 - 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業績重新上場官員會場工作夥伴媒體資訊人士先聲有請我們金管會彭主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":21.188,"end":40.88,"text":"主委好 來看到這個新聞標題最大LNG來源國卡達停產網路上一堆訊息認知站說糟糕要斷氣了你會擔心嗎你看到這樣的新聞雖然這不是你的夜館會擔心這樣影響我國的能源安全及儲備嗎但是因為我有參加行政院的討論我不擔心"},{"start":41.48,"end":56.12,"text":"是 但是所以這邊要告訴大家很多民眾因為沒有參加行政院的討論所以會擔心所以我認為這不是經濟部的事情是整個行政院各部會對於我國的包括能源安全的儲備都要協助宣傳 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南台灣跟北屢中之間不斷的穿梭24小時不間斷運送這些過去台灣要送到越南送到中國的這些零組件在那個地方在越南或者說現在改到菲律賓組裝生產後可以銷往其他的世界市場這樣你有想像了我們看一下這就是未來的無人貨運"},{"start":328.215,"end":353.669,"text":"那這些需要什麼 往前跳一頁這些的無人貨運就需要這些的公共設施這些的公共設施值得投資的往下看再往下看所以投資的標的法規適合完善有沒有已經完成三讀了我們在一一三年的三月已經黨團協商了未來有沒有預期這是投資標的的部分那法規跟誘因的部分金管會有沒有把握在近期內可以把它完成"},{"start":354.449,"end":380.749,"text":"我想我們大概就是有關剛委員提到我們的投信投顧法修正就我們常常講REIT的修正這部分當然會帶來很多因為剛委員講說其實比如受請人的資金他還是不適合直接投資在那個事業的我瞭解我說法規的部分有沒有夠完善了還差最後一里路嘛對對對就是標的主要是標的標的我幫你講但是這些法規跟誘因法規的部分金管委什麼時候可以把它推動完畢"},{"start":382.509,"end":397.297,"text":"我們也很期待說這個這部法律通過以後可以讓我們再有比如說刑訴標的的樣態能夠更多元更有效率這樣所以法規還是要趕快完成我們執法都有在準備最後因為主席站起來了"},{"start":398.378,"end":424.602,"text":"這幾個問題就麻煩您如果不動產投資信託基金合併小股東學院如果保障如果避免不動產投資信託基金清算下市影響小股東權益以及如果避免發行人將不良資產賣給不動產投資信託基金等等這就是現存市場上的問題我們希望未來金管會能夠針對問題在法定制度完備後能夠幫助實務上來推動可以嗎就這些問題來提供給本席好不好沒問題謝謝一個月嗎可以好 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謝謝委員長那第二個問題 委員長想請教一下那最近中東的這個戰事 戰雲密佈那事實上包含海灣國家 海灣的這些數個國家也都受到影響那撤銷的主要工作是外交部做還是這個委員會有什麼樣的角色嗎"},{"start":208.828,"end":230.864,"text":"跟委員說明就是我們都雖然是有分工但是我們對於外館的統一指揮這樣的原則向來都是非常遵循那在中東地區的整個八個國家我們在近期也有做統計那麼最多的僑民人數就是在阿聯酋大概300個阿拉伯大公國嘛"},{"start":235.347,"end":246.714,"text":"然後再來就是沙烏地阿拉伯那還有以色列這分別都是人數稍微比較多一點的就是有比較多台商在當地有在深耕的啦那其餘的幾個國家呢基本上人數都是幾十個不等那過去這一段時間將近不到一個月三個禮拜啦三個禮拜當中呢外交部所有在當地的住管"},{"start":261.544,"end":268.148,"text":"都有跟所有的僑胞聯繫上那也都爭奪他們的意願想離開的就已經都協助他們離開回到國內那或者到其他第三國安全的地方去暫時的離境那目前為止呢還留在這個中東八國的人數恐怕已經只剩下幾百個人了全部加起來只剩下幾百個人而已因為已經有兩千多人因為總共才兩千多人我們已經測了兩千出頭人了"},{"start":289.74,"end":316.9,"text":"所以剩下的人已經不多那不多的原因是因為他可能跟當地人是結婚的他有家庭或者是他在當地已經生根很久了那這種我們都是尊重他大的意願好 謝謝委員長我要講這件事情另外一個部分就是說有些事要緊急撤離但是如果無法緊急撤離的時候那我國在外的僑胞特別是在外居住的僑胞他等於是有他自己在當地的人際網絡是"},{"start":318.101,"end":332.904,"text":"那就是說那時候我們的旅客遊客他如果無法在第一時間撤離的話等於是說委員會僑友會就能夠利用這些限地的資源來去協助我們當地受困的遊客"},{"start":333.405,"end":338.966,"text":"那就是互相的幫助就是把這樣的資源來去做整個我們基本上是因為透過台商系統因為我們分布比較廣泛比較綿密所以台商的朝團這個部分他們掌握資訊也很快速所以他們很多人會接觸我們做急難救助所以旅外國人如果是因為旅行團或者是突然去經商探親的狀況通常第一個就是接觸我們的外館"},{"start":359.91,"end":386.57,"text":"再不然就是接觸我們的僑胞所以我們都會這樣子來聯繫好 非常感謝那我還是在強調僑委會能夠扮演的角色就是有些時候比外交部還甚至更大因為他們是有當地的這個聯絡的網路對外交部他還是主重在傳統外交或者是跟政要之間的聯繫等等的但是因為我觀察非常到位我自己在過去我在留學的時候不是我在"},{"start":387.711,"end":416.752,"text":"我有去非洲過嘛那當時是去幫助當地的這些愛滋病的病患跟他們的家眷那時候我們就聽到很多當地僑民說有一些來觀光或者是求學的這些同學們應該是觀光為主短期的觀光遇到其他人的時候道道也不是Walking Heart就是來這邊甚至觀光旅遊很難得早期的去那在那邊馬上生病的時候"},{"start":418.178,"end":436.412,"text":"當中有住管 外交部沒有住管 那怎麼辦找喬偉惠當地的台商會 由當地的台商會來協助甚至有些比較遺憾的就是去世在當地的到之後也是由當地的台商或者是跟喬偉惠相關的系統來去協助所以他能夠扮演的角色真的非常大"},{"start":437.393,"end":465.015,"text":"過去我們常常會把外交部當成是首要的這個求助的對象那當然是因為在遇到重大的這個危機的時候會是但是當地的人脈連結僑而會可以扮演的角色確實是很重的確實所以我們到目前為止在全球設立了一百多個疾難救助協會就是在彌補這個不足因為我們並不是所有國家都有駐外管處那就算有駐外管處也不見得對當地的社政警政衛政法務"},{"start":466.296,"end":485.819,"text":"徹底了解 當地的台商其實不管是對當地的這些政要啊警政他的衛生衛生衛生設施 人脈跟資訊往往還更充分所以說這一個整體的名冊的這一個定期的更新還有定期的維護 需要的這些人物那對可以我提供資料給委員參考"},{"start":487,"end":504.29,"text":"我覺得對也可以然後也是希望就是委員長我們更加期許委員會扮演更重要的角色在這個地方因為到時候有的他說趕快趕快送回來送回台灣但是如果說當地的機場像是杜拜這樣已經直接遇到重大的這些攻擊就要就地尋求安全的那時候就要找僑委會是的好謝謝謝謝委員關心謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167656","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167656","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053d66ef97102fccf2675f3d6415d2a29ea997b7b3c5b8577b308f75701a873fd4f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"12:28:51 - 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我們請速發部部長我們請林部長委員午安 部長好首先我先肯定部長跟這個部裡面的這些同仁們那根據部裡面的資料說GPU的算力池截止到我們14年年底已經幫助到186家這個民間的業者"},{"start":27.668,"end":47.707,"text":"那有開放200多個模型還有AI服務那甚至其中有80家已經達到產品的規模化是那方向是對的那我們這個地方是肯定的感謝委員支持不過我們回到國內我們再來看一下就是說我們政府提供的免費的這個算力的額度它等值大概是新台幣65萬元"},{"start":49.349,"end":64.427,"text":"但是業界他租一台AI的伺服器一個月大概是要80萬元左右那買一台的話那就不用講要上千萬元那個成本是更大那也就是說我們現在政府給的額度他可能是連一個月的租金都租不起"},{"start":65.007,"end":86.935,"text":"那在全球就剛才有很多委員都有提到當然我們也很遺憾有些預算是被沒有辦法去做好的審查所以沒有辦法去讓我們有更多的預算來去做這個算力上面的增加更多的資本在上面更加更多的投資在上面但是我們還是回到我們剛才講的就是說65萬元跟80萬元一個月就表示說我們現在確實是有不足的這個狀況下"},{"start":88.556,"end":110.445,"text":"如果我們要把這個公共算力從驗證到可以持續性的商用的話那還是有一段距離所謂的驗證就是說我們可能因為就為了要一開始草創的企業也好特別是AI這個產業其實一切都要在草創當中我們既然說還是硬體就像有人在笑稱說這個在掏青草的加州最開始的時候最先得到發財的是"},{"start":111.986,"end":139.886,"text":"賣鏟子的人是是是其後才是拋金的這樣子的整個行業的興盛是那我們現在還是在最前端還是在鏟子的部分還是在最基礎的建設的部分是那在最基礎的建設的部分如果政府能夠推一把的話那我們就有很好的其實我們已經有很好的實力在那我們就可以走得更遠走得更快是如果有從短期願證升級為可持續商業就是擴張這樣子的這樣的時程有沒有這樣子的想法如果有的話時程大概是怎麼樣各位請部長簡單來說明一下"},{"start":141.747,"end":161.617,"text":"OK在算力方面我們現在速發布只有40片的那個GPU這個數量坦白講少得很可憐但是我們這個這40片的GPU並不是要讓那個民間的公司做商業的運作這個主要是讓他們做創業家在一開始驗證他的想法的時候因為我本身也是創業家我20幾年前"},{"start":162.677,"end":188.668,"text":"那個創業的時候我就在我的家裡擺一排電腦大概兩萬塊台幣我就開始做我的實驗寫程式可是現在的AI創業就如同委員所講的這台GPU的那個伺服器大概都要超過一千萬台幣所以很多的創業家他有一個那個我說靈魂的考驗他要想說他要不要把他房子抵押掉買一台那個算那個GPU的伺服器那我們現在就跟他講說你不用去抵押房子你來用速發部的這個"},{"start":189.668,"end":212.181,"text":"算力然後做完實驗然後你實驗成功了你就可以拿你的實驗數據去找天使投資人拿到他投資的資金然後如果你失敗了那他也恭喜你因為你房子還在你不用為了擔心你創業失敗而不敢去創業所以其實數位部就等於是在扮演這個富裕氣的一個角色在裡面"},{"start":212.261,"end":230.228,"text":"是是是那其實未來甚至在這個複製角色裡面的話我們甚至可以持有部分這些我們可能看到的獨角獸的股份他可能是成為未來的新一代的這個台積電也好或者是過去是硬體未來可以是軟體或者是相關的運用嗎那AI軟體因為軟體這次也是被打的"},{"start":231.949,"end":246.204,"text":"因為現在慢慢走向AI agent慢慢的走向AI軟體那都有很多的基礎點我們希望數位部可以扮演著撥畫器的一個角色回到我們剛才的問題嘛就只有40片為什麼會只有40片可不可以簡單講一下"},{"start":246.944,"end":268.851,"text":"就是本來我們在去年我們是希望再增購100片的GPU算力可是很不幸的就是我們那個素產署的預算都被刪掉就提出大概是40萬被刪20萬所以那個地方部分我們就沒辦法增加我們的算力其實部長我要講這件事情我認為這不是跟在野黨的競爭不是零和遊戲"},{"start":270.131,"end":291.246,"text":"其實你聽到很多的在野黨的委員都一直在提到說我們算力要增加我們算力要投資要加倍但你投資要加倍的時候你預算減少你怎麼投資加倍就是在邏輯上面沒有邏輯的嘛除非他們走到量子力學就是他既要加倍然後又要減少同時存在但是他胡說八道嘛不可能出在這種狀況嘛對不對所以我們是希望說"},{"start":296.158,"end":311.309,"text":"有更多的機會來去因為把各個我們在野黨的委員們所提高他們想要達成的目的他們想要達成是算力加倍是可是他們提出來的方案是減少預算這是不符合的把它整理出來一一的跟社會溝通"},{"start":312.31,"end":328.351,"text":"因為現在要需要社會給予這些政協黨的委員們讓他們知道說你們這麼做不會達成你們的目的同時會減少你們的支持度那我還是強調就是說算力的增加不管是國防預算也好還是外交國防委員會這是可以應用在百工百業上面的"},{"start":330.422,"end":355.826,"text":"PLT我簡寫就是Partier這是軍方適用的美方這不也是算力的一個展現然後把它用在實際上AI的軟體的運用嗎那你怎麼可能不投資在這個上面呢所以這個是最基礎最基礎的設施這就跟許多我們在內黨委員爭取的一些哪一個道路要翻新哪一個重要的東部的鐵道要花幾億幾百億幾千億來去達通"},{"start":360.107,"end":386.704,"text":"你現在這個動脈就是這些算力這是最基礎的從40片到100片你就可以多做一些事情多做2.5倍的事情多給更多的想要從事這些企業的人多一點機會這也是另一方面的對自己也是會增加他們的民意的支持所以我認為說這個不是零可的這可是雙贏或者是三贏的局面必須要好好的跟在黨的立委裡面來談一下其實不僅僅是在科技部"},{"start":387.885,"end":406.811,"text":"國防未來一定都會用到這樣子的需求啦這次的中東戰爭也是一樣嘛所以這個部分再麻煩部長好好的跟他們溝通我們沒有要做零核的但是至少要有一定的往前走一步好不好是 非常感謝委員的支持我們非常感謝陳冠廷委員"}]}},{"id":"167655","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167655","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053ae99307776f052ee75f3d6415d2a29ea997b7b3c5b8577b38a94a20e7e7dac435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"游顥","委員發言時間":"12:19:19 - 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謝謝趙偉 主席那有請部長我們請林部長各位人午安部長午安那本席還是非常的肯定部長對於我們南投許多的協助那延續剛才許多委員的一個質詢那本席還是要接著就教剛才像洪孟海委員有提到的這個MIS-AP這種境外違法平台"},{"start":47.208,"end":74.825,"text":"那剛才您有提到這個不管是衛福部這邊通報還有這個相關的一個機制還有等於是速發部等於是在第三端的部分來進行這個處理跟封鎖的機制那本席還是要接著就這樣因為這樣子的部分他們等於說換一個換一個方式就馬上可以持續來來上架來進行這樣因為他們這一種的類型他每一個影片可能都是對一個受害者的一個持續的傷害啊"},{"start":75.265,"end":92.115,"text":"那在相關的速發部是不是能夠在已經被鎖定過去當初曾經下架的這個部分還有這樣子的平台能夠就是不用再過這個公文旅行方就是這些過程而直接的就精準鎖定的直接再次下架"},{"start":92.495,"end":115.059,"text":"是 沒有錯 如同委員所說的 這個最重要的是速度對付這種很惡劣的這些網站 這些集團那我們最好的方法就是儘速下架 然後提高他犯案的成本那我們的做法就是盡量電子化就是說不要再走那個紙本公文 紙本公文那個動作很慢那是不是請我們那個資源司司長補充說明一下"},{"start":115.319,"end":117.24,"text":"那這樣子的話可以在時間上如果說再次這樣上架的時候可以說人家多久時間之內就可以再次進行下架"},{"start":142.651,"end":165.267,"text":"因為這個部分的話目前應該是衛福部在建置但是他們有建置講那他只要有發現以後以公文的方式給我們的話其實我們在兩個小時之內目前是兩個小時之內就可以完成其實如果說當初本來就是設定是已經是因為違法被下架的話那其實同樣的內容的話應該是要直接的來去做處理而不是再次做確認"},{"start":166.007,"end":192.521,"text":"是沒錯所以跟委員說明一下這個因為我們現在通報分成三段第一個是那個衛福部來主管機關他要發現這個問題然後他要通知我們這是第一段的工作第二段是我們這邊TWNIC台灣網路資訊中心他收到這個通知以後他要啟動DNS RPZ的機制然後DNS RPZ機制啟動以後再由各家的那個網路業者他們去做這個封阻的動作"},{"start":193.141,"end":212.076,"text":"那我們中間這一段就如同我們剛剛市長講的我們已經把這個時間壓縮到平均兩個小時但是因為衛福部那邊或者是說各個地方政府像這個新北市政府他們內部我想他們會有一些作業流程那我們再想辦法就是跟他們合作幫助他們想辦法也縮短這個時間"},{"start":214.618,"end":239.251,"text":"其實這個題目來講本席還是直接就建議就是說雖然被罰過的話表示他這個就是不當的內容那所以說在做處理上的話還是要在機制上面去做改善如果說重新再做確認不管是怎麼樣的協助輔導那其實還是在拖延時間那如果可以的話重複內容是建議就是直接下架或是相關的違法平台就是直接做同樣的方式做處理那所以說本席是希望機制上如何改善"},{"start":239.951,"end":261.605,"text":"那再接著的話就是就是韓國大型電商平台Coupang的這個個資外洩的部分那剛才的質詢有提到說現在的調查報告是送行政院那想要直接問那相關的內容因為全國的民眾都非常的關心那是不是可以在這一個事件來講也有相關的資料後來到時候提供給交通委員會讓大家能夠進行了解"},{"start":262.185,"end":289.909,"text":"OK沒有問題好那接著就是剛才部長也有提到這個算力中心全台都要做一個部件部署那想問一下目前來講這個在因為電力的關係那所以說幾乎的話未來會往中南部的部分去做部件部署那想問一下在22縣市或是尤其是在台灣的主要的19個縣市來講都會有未來算力中心的規劃建置嗎"},{"start":290.979,"end":319.878,"text":"因為算力中心其實不需要每個地方去建置那現在算力中心的那個系統就是說那個輝達那邊都做成一個一個機櫃以前那個只是一台一台的那個server現在做後來做成一個人家一個機櫃那現在這個叫super part然後更大所以他通常是建立一個算力中心然後還要很多是水冷式的所以這個蠻複雜的所以這些算力中心可能會最後選址會選在幾個縣市而已那有南投嗎"},{"start":321.035,"end":345.996,"text":"目前我坦白講我沒有收到這個申請因為這是民間現在大部分這個算力中心是民間在申請在設置的所以目前好像沒有有機會的話一樣是讓我們南投可以帶動這種相關的產業的發展還有促進就業機會那同樣的因為現在的這個算力中心他在支撐這個AI的相關的計畫其實主要的支撐點就在於電力"},{"start":346.776,"end":364.131,"text":"那現在的這個電力的問題的話其實本席也就爬過相關的報導跟討論啦所以這個電力的問題當然說主責是在經濟部可是目前來講看到要推展的全台不管是廣設36座的專利中心等等的需求電力"},{"start":364.671,"end":382.775,"text":"那目前是沒有看到明確的一個計畫要如何來支撐這樣子的算力中心那我想說是不是可以請部長簡短的跟大家報告一下會不會來去克服這個問題關於電力的部分因為現在是由那個經濟部還有台電他們主責的那我們是"},{"start":383.555,"end":403.585,"text":"會做好溝通的工作就是當民間的算力公司在做建設的時候如果遇到任何電力土地或其他方面的問題我們樹發部都會協助去協調去想辦法解決這個問題當然這個電力也是我們非常關心的一個電力的部分的供應那要如何能夠穩定來支撐"},{"start":407.227,"end":417.012,"text":"目前我們得到的訊息是應該是沒有問題的那當然這個事情我要再三的跟經濟部確認協調其實如果說以兩個機組的這個機台的電力幾乎就等於是一個台天大樓整個的一個電力"},{"start":423.656,"end":451.835,"text":"所以說未來來講其實像看世界各國他們在不斷的強化精進以及廣設這個算力中心以及相關的數據中心所以這個電力需求是非常龐大那其實在台灣本來目前就是屬於一個越來越去缺電的一個環境所以說在會往中南部來去設置這個算力中心也好就是最主要是因為在北部的供電是非常吃緊這個是部長您說過的那未來的話您有沒有可能在速發部的角色也支持其實"},{"start":452.515,"end":472.088,"text":"合一合二的話能夠持續來做演繹或者是能夠重啟的部分關於這個方面關於那個核能的問題當然我們很關心但是這個是由那個經濟部還有那個沒關係就問蘇發部的立場會不會支持這個可能不方便沒關係那我就直接接著問像現在來講的話中東的戰事其實他不會那麼快結束"},{"start":477.492,"end":497.944,"text":"那台灣的話幾乎有三分之一的天然氣都會受到影響啊那所以短期之內不可能像如川普所說的四周內結束啊那三分之一的天然氣影響影響的不僅是整體的台灣的民生用電那所以在AI的一個相關的建制的部分電力的話更是雪上加霜啊那這個部分你要怎麼看如何克服"},{"start":499.906,"end":522.783,"text":"這個部分還是一樣我們會努力跟經濟部來協調另外就是算力的配置因為我們知道其實現在大部分AI所需的算力是透過Internet所以有些算力會在海外有些算力會在台灣我們台灣因為需要主權AI我們必須有一些算力中心在台灣這樣我們在法律上才管得到"},{"start":523.423,"end":546.807,"text":"所以我們這邊速發部我們是會跟國科會經濟部一起合作想辦法在台灣設立一些那個算力中心各種做任何事情都會有一些困難有一些挑戰那我們會努力去克服去解決那姑且就不論剛才所提到的那個電力滿格論您要怎麼回應但是至少百億AI基金那一年的部分它這個總共六個投資案"},{"start":547.427,"end":562.209,"text":"那本席還是希望速發部可以持續享受各種的方式來鼓勵來投資那讓他的百億政策基金他不僅是政策宣示能夠達到持續AI提升的效果是好謝謝委員提醒好非常感謝劉浩偉委員"}]}},{"id":"167654","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167654","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60532c08cb55f10b4c8e75f3d6415d2a29ea997b7b3c5b8577b38a94a20e7e7dac435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"12:11:55 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主席有請林部長我們請林部長"},{"start":13.325,"end":18.628,"text":"委員好部長好 辛苦了時間都來到12點鐘大家其實在這裡開會討論的當然是跟AI的相關的發展有關當然也包括了軟體的應用我知道部長日理萬機所以我現在要提的這一部劇你可能沒時間看不過最近非常的紅它在社群平台上面由Blackpink的其中一位成員他演了一齣戲叫訂閱男友"},{"start":40.278,"end":68.407,"text":"裡頭呢就是透過AI虛擬的方式以後大家不用談戀愛了就跟AI談戀愛就好那為什麼我用這個做銀子是因為我現在要關注的問題就是當AI的使用現在大家非常普遍用Gemini用ChatGPP甚至於連做報告好看的PTT都是使用但是它也演進成為陪聊所謂的聊天APP而這個聊天的APP現在已經被越來越多的使用者認為它是中國製造"},{"start":69.247,"end":92.386,"text":"那麼我想中國製造的問題部長比我們更清楚尤其是因為中國它有所謂的網路管理辦法是以及它有中國的所謂相關的安全辦法是國安局其實都已經提醒那就是說這些中國製造的APP它確實不只是偷窺你的資訊收集你的資訊甚至於它會植入中國"},{"start":93.527,"end":110.021,"text":"的所謂價值觀甚至於去改寫歷史包括現在我所蒐集到的這個不論是媒體的報導或者是使用者他們特別在網路上分享的像這一個喔BIMO BIMO不知道是不是這樣唸啦因為我沒有用喔但是呢他被媒體說他其實是可以偷窺"},{"start":112.523,"end":140.298,"text":"使用者家裡的環境跟狀況而他背後是武漢聚發科技有限公司他會告訴使用者說自古以來台灣就是中國的領土另外一個叫做碎碎念記帳本更多的網友說他其實在跟你聊天記帳的過程他植入了很多時事而這些時事的內容不盡合理甚至於是某些政治立場"},{"start":141.82,"end":158.206,"text":"那麼對於我們來說現在面對這樣子放上去的APP我們只有提醒嗎提醒足夠嗎因為現在我來擷取國安局的報告裡面特別提到了深層式的AI語言模型它潛藏的除了資安風險之外"},{"start":159.747,"end":174.824,"text":"它甚至於是會搜羅你的個人的個資之外它甚至於進一步可能維繫到國家安全所以我比較要具體的問速發部是說像現在這樣的APP放到平台上面之後速發部有"},{"start":175.825,"end":190.24,"text":"管理的能力嗎還是說現在因為就是反正你是拿Apple手機的你是拿Apple手機的你就去App Store那你如果是拿這個所謂另外一套系統的Google系統的你就是到Google的"},{"start":191.181,"end":206.073,"text":"商店那這些放上去的不勝美舉然後非常的大海茫茫對於現在我們已經看到的這樣的一個具體呈現出來的中國製造的AI資安破口數位部有沒有一個想法如何來處理"},{"start":206.974,"end":234.825,"text":"OK 關於中置APP的風險我們分幾個方面來講那第一個方面就是傳統的所謂我們傳統的資安譬如說它有沒有木馬有沒有病毒這是第一部分第二是個資的風險我們知道有些APP它收集個資那中國的這個APP收集個資特別的危險為什麼呢因為依照中國的法律中國政府可以隨時要求說這些軟體公司把它收集到這些資訊都交給政府"},{"start":235.445,"end":258.877,"text":"所以這一點我們必須讓大家都知道然後再來就是意識形態這個問題那意識形態的這個問題我們希望說他的觀點跟台灣一樣的因為很多事情事實上有很多的事情譬如說那個三權分立是不是好事台灣不管藍綠白我們都認為說對不起有人認為是五權分立"},{"start":259.477,"end":287.498,"text":"最好全力制衡台灣大家都認為是好事可是中國的觀點就認為這個是資本主義的那個民主制度是不好的所以我們是分成這幾方面來做那我們的具體做法呢第一個我們這邊就是資安署跟資安院這邊我們會做一些檢測就是把一些中國製的APP還有事實上還有其他的APP我們來做檢測說他會蒐集哪些個資那他在蒐集個資的過程中有沒有明確取得使用者的同意"},{"start":288.298,"end":313.291,"text":"讓我們就是接下來我們定期發布這些報告因為我們能量有限所以我們會開始做一些那像這種直接民眾就反映的包括我前面兩個這兩個APP的有沒有辦法一個路徑或是一個SOP他就可以處理下來甚至於他有機會下架因為其實現在民眾我們比較關心我知道說能力有限啦包括大家還有很多的產業的發展等等也要做只是說像這種已經"},{"start":314.992,"end":338.628,"text":"透過媒體報導又或者是說透過網路已經被認定就是怪怪的是那這個部分可以處理嗎我其實比較想知道的那要怎麼處理是那我們當然就是說這個比較大家比較有在使用然後坦白講媒體在報導我們優先去處理好那既然委員提到我們就那個請那個資安署我們趕快去檢查這幾個做檢測報告是是"},{"start":341.13,"end":352.556,"text":"那等於是說你們固定會有檢測報告現在還是停留在比較是提醒的部分那如果現在有發現了除了跟媒體講 寫在網路上有沒有通報的綠色通道或途徑還是說可以怎麼樣讓數位不知道"},{"start":356.562,"end":362.185,"text":"有沒有 或者如果沒有 我們是不是可以研議一個因為我覺得啦 就像詐騙一樣要集結眾人之力 不然你們真的會累死那麼中國只要換個名字 反正我就換個樣態那可能他還是可以借屍還魂 或者是另起爐灶同樣的東西再來做處理 我建議你們回去給一個綠色通道 給一個所謂的通報專線"},{"start":381.215,"end":410.082,"text":"就像詐騙一樣我們把這種有資安風險的中國製AI也讓他有機會被下架或被處理好不好是非常謝謝委員這個提議我們會處理不過也跟委員說明一下因為在資安上面通常駭客要那個進攻防守方有一個手法就是把那個防守方累死他就一直來通報譬如說一天給我通報一千個那個APP那就把我們累死了然後真正有問題的他反而我們就沒時間去好沒關係這個你們可以判斷但至少我認為可以架一個通道讓"},{"start":411.002,"end":415.456,"text":"民眾來一起來當資安守門員 好不好好 非常謝謝委員好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167653","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167653","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053e56a0fc3006aae3375f3d6415d2a29ea997b7b3c5b8577b378127b5ca753ccb05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:59:31 - 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麻煩請速發部林部長我們請林部長"},{"start":15.765,"end":43.191,"text":"委員好 部長好 還是在這一個會期的第一次速發部的一個質詢那我想再針對幾個我們社會重大的議題來跟速發部來就教幾個部分 第一前些日子有在新北市突然間無望之災啊說因為接獲到衛福部影像處理中心通報有性愛影片未經同意上傳到網站也因此有下架網站"},{"start":44.191,"end":69.606,"text":"那網站到不到一天之後但是沒有獲得相關的這個回應然後要求依照SOP封鎖網域但沒想到導致一天的時間裡面這一個算是非法網站因為它是成人影像又光速的復活甚至在網站上還高調嘲諷說感謝新北市所有台灣AI免廣告是"},{"start":70.219,"end":89.359,"text":"那這是不是算是一個對公權力的一個挑釁這個是非常惡劣的因為它對公權力是一個挑戰那這個事情比較難處理是因為它這個網站通常都是設在海外那我們現在可以做的事情就是下架而且我們要縮短下架的時間加快這個速度因為依照我們過去的經驗就是說如果我們"},{"start":90,"end":114.949,"text":"那個能縮短這個網站存活的時間的話因為他一個設立一個新的網站他還必須告訴他的潛在使用者說我的新網站叫什麼名字那這個部分我們現在是由衛福部通報那個TWNIC然後由TWNIC去透過DNS RPZ的這個機制通知各個ISP業者所以這個有三段那我們現在就是跟衛福部我們合作想辦法把這三段的時間都盡量縮短"},{"start":116.59,"end":142.428,"text":"部長我們之前已經有一個很好的案例嘛是那時候創意私房是全社會華藍不知道說原來那上面有那麼多的網站你可以加會員甚至你要上傳影片變成是累積積分是以前大家不清楚那因為社會報導之後是不到一天火速可以把他給遮蔽是至少我們用公權力讓他知道是說你不是那麼容易的Google就可以搜尋得到是那"},{"start":143.919,"end":165.18,"text":"避免大部分的民眾來去做點擊跟加入嘛那創醫師坊如果說有這樣的一個SOP的話那不能做這樣子一個複製嗎那再者本席過去到現在也已經一直要求我關心什麼電子菸電子菸到目前為止是非法的在台灣是不合法可是我過去看到電子菸業者是比"},{"start":166.161,"end":191.765,"text":"止煙還要容易讓民眾買到他還可以在網路上滿千送百還可以加會員折好禮然後還可以直接寄送到便利商店裡面不用身份認證就可以讓他取包裹那後來我確實在這段時間因為我已經質詢了快一年多的時間有看到努力但明顯還是不足為什麼 因為有些時候你Google電子煙確實沒有那些網站但有些時候還有喔"},{"start":193.775,"end":221.29,"text":"只是他的排名比較後面但我現在想講的重點在於是非法的網站照理講你就不應該是讓Google那麼容易可以直接搜尋甚至表單上都有所以我剛剛也認同你的講法就是說如果我能夠增加他搜尋的難度代表是說他的店開了沒有人知道那就變成是一般的民眾要購買要接觸就會比較困難大幅的增加他的營運成本"},{"start":221.79,"end":246.861,"text":"是那也不要怪我們是因為你是非法的部分嘛是好那所以我現在再比較直接請教像這樣這一個成人影音網站這樣子大動作的跟新北市府跟衛福部跟我們抒發部挑釁那我們後未來能夠怎麼做是通報你的時間是不是可以直接很明確告訴國人如果未來通報的話多久時間內可以把它給遮蔽是我覺得完全同意委員的說法"},{"start":247.481,"end":275.021,"text":"那就是第一個就是我們之前那個就是創意司法那個事件發生以後創意司法可以一天就遮蔽那其他等一下 等一下 聽我講那我們後來就把這個做成SOP然後加快處理速度那我們現在剛才講到說TWNIC我們速發部主管這部分我們現在平均兩個小時我們兩個小時就已經把它處理完了就是說衛福部他通知我們有辦法嗎我現在看到他上個禮拜他就是又火速恢復而且就是我剛講的嘛"},{"start":276.156,"end":298.921,"text":"跟委員報告那火速恢復其實它是等於是它重新再另起新的這個域名那可能是同樣內容可能是同樣內容或部分內容相同那這個部分的話其實變成說其實這些違法網站它要申請一個新的網域其實是很容易的所以在這部分的話其實根據衛福部其實有針對所以您是市長來"},{"start":303.542,"end":328.915,"text":"那剛剛部長講兩個小時喔我就如果說你真的有辦法兩個小時那這樣子他今天開另外一個我現在不要的是一個社會事件爆發本來大家不知道這個網站結果因為社會事件爆發反而大家講說喔我原來可以點這個網站那如果說就我們速發部剛剛講的拍胸部保證我兩個小時內可以處理那這樣子我就處理可是不是說讓他新開張之後反而還可以就此宣傳說來喔"},{"start":329.955,"end":332.437,"text":"所以我現在只想我要的是一個處理的問題的態度跟做法不是說今天標榜來 部長給你時間 來"},{"start":342.284,"end":370.58,"text":"我們有三段嘛第一個就是衛福部要發現這個事情要通知我們這是第一段的工作第二段的工作就是我們TWNIG從收到衛福部的通知再啟動DNSRPZ這是第二段的工作那現在我們是據我們了解就是我們中間這個地方我們平均是兩個小時但是前面那一段可能衛福部他有一些行政程序還要再做確認等等所以多言的是衛福部我聽你這樣講就潛台詞是這樣子啊不要這樣子那個"},{"start":371.821,"end":389.975,"text":"不是 因為你就講說我家人相見但是衛福部你現在看他存活了幾個小時幾天所以部長 我今天也不是說要我也不希望你們分得那麼詳細我現在沒有設陷阱提給你跳我現在只是要告訴的是說今天"},{"start":390.896,"end":411.47,"text":"看到一個問題要解決問題我想這個是我們全委員會或說會議室裡面大家都大家都會很重要的違法的東西不能在網路上販賣違法的成人影音影像因為如果說他真的有上傳那些違法影像不行那我現在只想要是不是能夠跟衛福部再加速或者說確認一下說這到底流程是多少"},{"start":412.19,"end":434.652,"text":"沒有問題 因為這個事情一發生以後衛福部的時務部長馬上跟我通電話討論過這樣兩個禮拜內衛福部速發部開會讓我們知道接下來SOP甚至有牽扯到地方政府的話 共同來商議然後告訴我們可以流程的時間跟明確的後續策略我們這個都已經做成SOP 然後已經有報行政院行政院那邊也已經"},{"start":437.811,"end":454.172,"text":"這個我們有相關的處理原則那沒關係那這樣相關處理原則下班前先給我然後還有就是說我要確認是說你們到底現在的速度那未來我會持續追好不好不要再讓本席下一次來的時候還說奇怪這些違法網站怎麼還在來再來"},{"start":456.26,"end":470.738,"text":"部長你一定有看過AI現在傳了好多影片嘲諷的 名人換臉的那如果說名人換臉無傷大雅當然你換到那些名人的臉也很奇怪譬如說最近有那個陶學威龍的電影有沒有很紅"},{"start":471.619,"end":500.999,"text":"然後就把一堆名人都跟周星馳一起在那邊躲子彈是喔這可能你有看過你們不管但是我想突顯是什麼賴清德總統有被換臉是川普有被換臉是蕭美琴副總統被換臉是所有有頭有臉的人其實要換臉現在非常容易是這也是差不多兩年前我們開始討論從小玉那個網紅換臉事件等等之後是當時他當然是一些性影像所以說造成犯罪但現在AI科技已經"},{"start":501.759,"end":527.309,"text":"又更前面所以任何人你幾乎不用什麼技術網路上一些教學你就可以有辦法換臉而且換臉的狀況更是以假亂真是好對所以我們現在我們面臨到這樣的一個問題如果說未來哪一天因為大家也開始在講說資訊戰認知作戰等等那未來如果說這一些換臉他不是好笑的影片而是變成是嚴肅的影片甚至變成是"},{"start":528.699,"end":543.975,"text":"擾亂國安的影片等等的如果說它是違法 明確違法而且明確確定是AI生成的話我們就會馬上要求這個平台下架如果是圖利的網站的話我們就用啟動DNSRPG的機制"},{"start":544.916,"end":562.063,"text":"但是如果說在Line轉傳呢現在我們看到很多其實是在Line轉傳對因為Line轉傳這個問題當然那個是另外對不起我先講完那個然後另外一個很重要的重點是我們用標示我們現在事實上我們是希望說所有AI生成的影像都必須標示說我這個是AI生成的"},{"start":562.803,"end":586.975,"text":"事實上這個事情在美國政府在拜登政府時期就已經有要求各個平台像是Facebook像Google等等做這個標示可是後來換成川普總統以後美國對這方面的要求比較鬆一點但是我們認為說我們台灣還是這邊認為說應該做這個標示因為這些公司通常都是一些跨國的公司我們有什麼法規有什麼辦法管理"},{"start":588.496,"end":614.104,"text":"其實你在講的都是一個理論 但重點在於是當然中華民國我們處境不容易 我們不是一個資訊大國可是另外一點是說 那現在這個問題產生了我就說嘛 大家應該都有收過吧變臉的影片 換臉的影片都有嘛那我現在只是說點出這個問題 那不能無解啊有啊 有 我們現在正在努力 那我們也希望說你現在告訴我的解決就是 忍耐川普總統哪一天突然覺得說這個很嚴重"},{"start":615.663,"end":630.792,"text":"沒有 我們現在也是希望我們現在制定這個規則我們第一步先跟這些平台溝通如果說不行的話我們就希望啟動立法因為立法我們就這邊就有更強的底氣去跟這些平台溝通因為你來台灣做生意你就必須遵守台灣的法律時間上"},{"start":633.497,"end":655.287,"text":"時間上 之前我也有問這個問題因為現在並沒有法律的我們並沒有法律的工具現在已經有 AI基本法已經三讀通過過了那後續就是要有相關的作用法嘛所以說這個其實就本席再來立法的部分你剛講立法其實這就是我衍生的議題其實今天不是本席幫你講完而是我們就是面對問題解決問題講重點"},{"start":657.168,"end":684.221,"text":"所以本席其實要講的是說AI基本法我們已經在去年通過了那相關的作用法其實就要出來就是有該嚇阻要嚇阻該促進產業要促進產業以及該加強要加強這些都是一套的完全同意不是說等你剛剛的回答是說等川普什麼時候想通了這個很嚴重沒有啦我那句話我沒講我只是想說那個我不是說我要等川普想通了但是我現在要的是說我們要怎麼做我們要怎麼做我們謝謝同學"},{"start":685.502,"end":713.229,"text":"就是如同委員講的我都完全同意我們要想辦法要啟動立法什麼時間點可以提出我希望在這個會期我們能有一些方案出來這個會期本席可以跟訴法部我們共同合作立院行政是一體的關心這一體的所有委員都可以一起來但是我希望行政部門可以負起責任先提出來相關的法令版本我們提出相關對應版本我們一起來研究這個會期提出來"},{"start":713.869,"end":725.313,"text":"是是是針對名人變臉 針對AI軟體運用等等相關後續這是AI基本法通過之後本來就應該要有的作用法是沒錯沒錯 委員講的完全沒錯好 我會繼續追 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我想要請石部長石部長早安喔電太高了"},{"start":31.367,"end":45.226,"text":"市部長早安我昨天去看了我們彰化縣的全齡的長照就是照護中心就是有拖鷹啦 有失智啦還有日照等等就是一些住宿型的 整合型的"},{"start":46.167,"end":74.438,"text":"未來這樣子的一個就是說機構因為你們衛福部也有補助嘛那未來是不是會繼續支持彰化縣做這樣子一個整合型的應該是跟委員說明說前面我們有一些前瞻計畫的補助然後就讓各縣市來提所以有一些就是在做這個長照的這個中心的整建因為彰化縣的進度都很好嘛有一點落後啦彰化"},{"start":76.019,"end":95.576,"text":"哪裡落後啊很好耶其他才落後他應該是這樣我們是核准最多案的彰化縣是核准最多案的也因為他是最多案所以他有一些工程就落後了所以我們在幫他做預算的保留我們有把他的預算保留下來所以他可以繼續做"},{"start":96.657,"end":121.282,"text":"那未來呢因為你知道嗎現在第一個就是零到六歲國家養嘛然後再來就是那個高齡化的這個人口增加嘛那所以這樣子一個整合型的就是照護機構那事實上就是有存在必要那是不是應該對你要你們要執行就是醫學區一日照這樣子的一個"},{"start":122.702,"end":138.867,"text":"一個目標嘛那再加上這樣整合型的又可以托嬰然後又可以托一些就是說高齡的照護那對於上班族的家庭來講就是很需要的"},{"start":139.107,"end":161.258,"text":"好 跟委員說明其實在這個一學區一日照這個部分其實彰化縣做得很好它的那個覆蓋率其實將近百分之百的達成了那等到我們下一階段我們再來評估看它還有什麼需要像剛剛我們提的是這種比較屬於整合型的甚至它有這個輕盈共照的這種概念"},{"start":161.598,"end":185.63,"text":"對 現在就有啊 因為它有拖音啊對不對 二歲以下的拖音那再加上失智啊還有一些就是日照的一個 對 一個日照的機構啊那這是整合型的那這也是符合未來就是說高齡社會以及就是三明治的家族等等就是的世代喔 它需要照顧小孩"},{"start":187.411,"end":197.7,"text":"或是有家裡有高齡的長輩等等都很需要這樣的機構那以就是說目前就是彰化我看到了好幾個機構他都執行的蠻好的那是不是就是未來能夠繼續的協助"},{"start":199.609,"end":218.579,"text":"如果有這個需求的時候我們再來協助應該是這樣講他還有一些案子還沒有執行完他繼續執行我們已經有幫他把那個預算保留住了所以他會繼續執行等他這邊執行完再有需求的時候我們再來研議繼續來協助好不好繼續協助彰化縣做這個部分好不好"},{"start":223.641,"end":250.592,"text":"再來就是偏鄉醫療的部分嘛我也是一直極力跟那個就是部長說啊我們20啊2級有沒有對不對就是是一個就是那邊都幾乎都沒有夜間急診的地方那是不是對於這些偏鄉醫療的人力資源那是不是公司共同協力來協助就是偏鄉的醫生能夠早日就是說早日得到那個"},{"start":251.272,"end":266.754,"text":"相關的人力的這個缺口好不好我了解這個彰化也是有一個狀況就是他的醫療比較集中在北彰那南彰的部分的資源是比較弱也只有大概兩家主要的小型醫院"},{"start":267.695,"end":282.722,"text":"我們已經也都把他納入在這個健保的燈塔計畫給他保障不過他還是有人力的困難那個負責醫師院長年紀也有了所以我們來看看連結其他的體系的資源去進駐我們來給他"},{"start":284.623,"end":299.256,"text":"他相關的醫療的人員進一步的給予相關的協助在獎勵的部分讓他可以在囊張這個地方可以維持下來包含健保的獎勵措施整合起來做"},{"start":301.237,"end":316.685,"text":"就搭配那個醫學中心的計畫還有未來我們公費生的服務跟健保的這個保障措施還有現在在推動就是兆元投資台灣你知道吧"},{"start":317.375,"end":331.143,"text":"造源投資台灣就是希望說讓我們一些就是受險業的資金等等可以留在台灣投資就是相關的我們的產業就這個當然就他們的風險係數的誘因來講他們就很希望說可以投資長照的機構"},{"start":344.131,"end":353.389,"text":"就這部分法令法規有沒有什麼樣子的協助當然是目前的法規長照法人"},{"start":354.568,"end":377.854,"text":"受險業者是可以投資只是他有一些限制啦我了解他的限制上讓他們覺得好像他沒有辦法掌握他雖然這個投資有限制然後對這個這個長照機構的這個治理權他也有被限制嘛所以這個部分我們再來研議看看這個部分有沒有辦法解決就是說現在我了解很多的這個保險"},{"start":379.614,"end":392.687,"text":"保險的那個資源都回到這個國內來嘛因為就是第一個啦你如果要發展亞之中心或者是要發展這樣子的一個因為你看最近"},{"start":393.877,"end":411.413,"text":"那個我們的金融業在中東地區的曝險是2.35兆那你要藉著這種情況下讓資金可以回流到台灣那你要有一個適切性的尤其是像保險的這樣他們需要有一些就是說長期性的"},{"start":412.594,"end":427.365,"text":"我們現在的方向是讓他來興建興建硬體的部分然後再交給專業團體來做營運他就可以有租金的收入"},{"start":428.806,"end":447.362,"text":"甚至讓他直接就是投資在這個長照法人裡面我想這個應該我們再瞭解看看他還有什麼這個找這保險業者來談一談看看他們還有什麼樣覺得還要再調整的不然政策上是目前是這個方向好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝謝謝謝委員謝謝謝一鋒委員"}]}},{"id":"167650","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167650","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053ff25b6df003dfd56d268b4a161496bd9997b7b3c5b8577b3f94a74b1c6866ca55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪毓祥","委員發言時間":"12:19:34 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嘛我們當然是努力達成所以可能在政策的滾動修正的話基本上也要回過頭對不對去跟全國民眾再做一個比較清楚的一個說明下一頁"},{"start":249.824,"end":271.463,"text":"那因為我們在看這件事情的時候基本上來講我們也估算大概出來的話就是說照道理我們的再生能源想說是增加1.38核能降的大概差不多3.09但是這中間的話可能因為核能的停止那我的再生能源補不到將近一半"},{"start":272.344,"end":298.111,"text":"那基本上我就必須靠燃煤燃氣這種火力發電來補那這個時候會造成我們廠商一個很大的困擾也就是我的碳稅跟碳費的一個增加所以我是希望說在這一塊地方來講我們台灣當然還是希望你們努力趕上再生能源發電比例那我們也希望這一個核電在核三的一個重啟安全評估之後可以如同這一個"},{"start":300.018,"end":319.987,"text":"這個昨天我跟台電德文在談他們也期待是說那是不是可以快一點然後來補這樣的缺口當然這還是要經過核安我們的這樣子的一個檢查的一個評估那我想為什麼我會這樣談因為我們將來台灣還有很多AI的算力的中心Data的一個Center那"},{"start":320.467,"end":344.399,"text":"另外他們也都是要求我們看到那個最後那個 對就是在Google Microsoft Amazon跟Apple AMD這些來講他們可能還不只是要滿足RE1000他可能還要再往247的CFE這邊來做所以有些大廠的設置的時候可能會把這個考慮進去那這樣子可能會延緩他們的設置所以經濟部的話可能要做一個判斷"},{"start":345.299,"end":350.432,"text":"就是我到底要不要來那來了之後我這些東西要怎麼去補他們的需求"},{"start":351.689,"end":376.174,"text":"這個區分為兩個部分所以對於重大的這個投資不管是水電或是土地的部分其實經濟部都有定場的去做一個檢討還有包括滾動式的去談說我想不耽誤各位的時間就是最後請經濟部幫我說一個就是說現在目前用電的需求那尤其要考量到我們的AI Data Center這些國際大廠"},{"start":377.594,"end":396.82,"text":"未來的需求的成長台電有預估也在我們電力可告訴的分析裡面我們在2034年我們可以提供12.2GW的這個的電力那另外就是綠電的部分好不好再送給我一個報告好不好這個都可以滿足到我們未來的那你可以交報告出來喔好謝謝謝謝我們會提供資料好謝謝好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167649","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167649","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053a7466168b04efb5df85a32efe0b6ef7a997b7b3c5b8577b305516ffde792dc4e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"12:17:08 - 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因為我想這件事情我先釐清一下應該是說他用自動他只用自動相機的影像他傳到他自己的手機裡面再上傳這樣是可行的不是"},{"start":299.111,"end":311.126,"text":"他一定先開APPAPP裡面有一個照相功能從照相功能去照相才可以上傳你如果說直接用手機去拍再開這個APP是傳不上去的"},{"start":312.045,"end":330.159,"text":"那這不是蠻奇妙的嗎?因為這個功能到底這個技術是有什麼樣子的功能?因為我想這個很多的社群平台APP應該都是可以做到的事情啊因為用我們的APP GPS可以很精準的定位但是用一般的照相機它的GPS定位不會那麼精準"},{"start":330.859,"end":353.688,"text":"好沒關係那這個部分我們事後再討論不過我想要回到剛剛的第一個問題就是說我們最後還是希望可以透過這個資訊傳出來之後讓公民可以一起來做相關的研究嘛分佈位置啊然後衝突的部分其實公民也可以一起來參與嘛那現階段沒有那大概預計有什麼時候可以開放讓大家來一起共同的導入更多的研究量度呢這個在開放的過程中我想我們不會那麼輕易的開放但是如果說"},{"start":359.31,"end":374.843,"text":"有特定的公民團體願意利用這個東西去做研究但是也必須切結承諾不對外公開那我們可以考慮大家一起來合作好啊那這樣子的話我再請這些團體來我們再要請我們再一起來討論好了不過再給我一點時間齁抱歉"},{"start":379.207,"end":406.279,"text":"就是有關於狂犬病的部分就是狂犬目前我們可以看到這個案例上面這兩個月的統計數字已經是這七年來最高的高峰了平均過去大概是13 14但是今年已經到了19那我想這部分其實也要趕快的跟我們的這都有可能會爆發大規模的傳染這是可能是一個可潛在的風險所以我們現在是不是有一個提前的盤點整體的防疫上面去避免它造成可能有讓選"},{"start":407.239,"end":427.844,"text":"的傳染或是其他的物種的傳染我想第一個部分就是我們要積極的加強狂犬病的疫苗對狗犬隻還有貓的部分那貓可能機會比較小因為在家裡但是有一個熱區就是說比較靠近田間的野外的這些區域我想我們會更主動的去通知"}]}},{"id":"167648","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167648","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053f435cdc562caa06f18cbbd4f69c426c0997b7b3c5b8577b37a48185b157db2555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"12:07:23 - 12:22:22","影片長度":"00:14:59","會議時間":"2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部、原住民族委員會、內政部、教育部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部及國家衛生研究院，就「如何精進偏鄉醫療與長照資源落差及落實《原住民族健康法》之困境，並對提升原住民族健康權益及強化原鄉照護量能（含提升機關位階與人力配置）」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月18日及3月19日，二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-03-18","start_time":"2026-03-18T12:07:23+08:00","end_time":"2026-03-18T12:22:22+08:00","duration":899,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":5,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-5-26-2"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.2122187500000001,"end":2.7815937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.77096875,"end":20.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.06159375,"end":20.247218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.32721875,"end":23.723468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.044093750000002,"end":26.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.828468750000003,"end":27.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.245968750000003,"end":55.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.439093750000005,"end":35.299718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.19409375,"end":37.510343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.22971875,"end":51.398468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.12346875,"end":60.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.15221875,"end":67.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.29034375,"end":70.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.50096875,"end":73.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.45409375,"end":75.00659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.12471875,"end":77.31846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.57159375,"end":81.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.85784375,"end":83.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.06846875000001,"end":84.45659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.72659375,"end":85.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.22846875,"end":92.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.97846875,"end":93.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.12596875000001,"end":98.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.71596875,"end":100.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.33596875,"end":104.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.80784375,"end":106.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.95096875,"end":110.98409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.16971875,"end":112.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.41846875,"end":113.11034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.32971875000001,"end":123.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.67409375000001,"end":125.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.66534375,"end":131.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.34784375,"end":139.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.65471875,"end":142.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.87784375,"end":143.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.09284375000001,"end":146.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.62409375000001,"end":148.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.63221875000002,"end":152.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.10409375,"end":156.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.46221875,"end":158.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.33096875,"end":163.43159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.48221875000002,"end":167.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.08909375000002,"end":169.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.33784375000002,"end":174.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.73784375000002,"end":176.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.08346875,"end":177.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.02846875,"end":185.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.31409375,"end":191.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.08534375000002,"end":196.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.59096875,"end":200.47221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":200.55659375000002,"end":261.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.23909375,"end":272.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.62971875,"end":287.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.67971875,"end":276.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.79784375,"end":276.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.32346875,"end":293.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.20034375,"end":296.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.33471875000004,"end":301.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.45221875000004,"end":303.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.89909375,"end":305.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.62034375,"end":309.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.65346875,"end":310.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.66596875000005,"end":313.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.34909375,"end":317.71971875},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謝謝主席 謝謝趙委重新安排這個行程 相關的議程我還是要麻煩石部長因為今天有兩個問題想要透過我請石部長對 趙委特別安排的內容來跟部長對話包括第一個就是偏鄉離島疑似人員流財"},{"start":45.035,"end":60.431,"text":"還有健康資料庫的整合健康資料庫的整合剛剛稍微也有稍微跟院長提到過另外一個議題就是慢性病防治法的進度我想這兩個議題都非常非常需要"},{"start":61.192,"end":85.101,"text":"再透過今天的方式來跟大家做討論那第一個就是有偏鄉離島疑似人員流財的措施我想這部分部長也非常清楚因為部長過去這麼長的一段時間擔任在這個衛福部裡面有非常多的經驗那也實務也知道幫助非常多相關的偏鄉的議題那如何流財"},{"start":86.566,"end":103.933,"text":"應該是所有在做偏鄉處理過程當中最重要的一部分那其實透過這個離島偏鄉長期的醫療人力的不足不只是醫師而已應該是相關的人力都會受到影響"},{"start":104.853,"end":124.683,"text":"那我們有瞭解很多的家籍很多的津貼都是希望讓人才能夠留在偏鄉可是有其他的相關條件包括這個交通不方便或者是生活條件等等的所以留任的機制並不是那麼樣的穩定這是我們目前一直在面臨的問題"},{"start":125.863,"end":152.502,"text":"所以我在最近跟陳妍委員還有莊惠璇委員一起提了一個有關於醫療法第88條的修正的內容就希望能夠強化這個照護的量能有關於人才流失的部分我們是希望在這個第88條裡面呢在第三項就是能夠針對醫事人員服務在偏鄉在離島偏鄉各級醫院及衛生所的部分收入"},{"start":153.137,"end":166.493,"text":"能夠透過好的方案來免於紀錄年度因課稅所得的課稅的部分適用範圍當然這個還需要再進一步的處理我想這一部分最重要的就是希望能夠透過這個稅制的優惠讓"},{"start":169.546,"end":185.214,"text":"來肯定我們醫事人員在惡劣的環境裡面做非常好的貢獻我相信這個長期在衛生地方衛生所服務的盧扎偉應該感受非常深刻因為我們知道盧扎偉在這方面真的貢獻非常非常的多"},{"start":186.385,"end":210.814,"text":"所以衛福部這邊是不是能夠認同這個稅制優惠可以作為流採的一個補充方案那這樣的修正方向不知道部長有沒有進一步如何跟財政部啟動相關的評估跟研理跟委員說明為了增加這個流採其實我們也做了很多的措施那也有規劃中的那第一個我們就已經希望把這個已經"},{"start":211.374,"end":233.684,"text":"做的就是把那個所有的給付都再加成所有的這個離島我們都是加30%那另外有一些偏鄉我們也都有加成的給付就是希望讓這些院所的收入會比較高那麼第二個當然希望他的這個收入高是要反映在這個人員的薪資上所以我們現在也在規劃要爭取在這個"},{"start":234.884,"end":260.711,"text":"偏鄉有個偏鄉佳績這當然指的是公立醫院的部分公立醫療機構的部分讓他可以有一個偏鄉佳績我們現在在爭取看看能不能提增加這個項目來留產至於說這個稅制的優惠的部分我想這個還涉及到跟這個財政部的討論我們來跟他研究看看那麼這個的可能性怎麼樣"},{"start":261.331,"end":282.142,"text":"是我們是希望雙管齊下這是除了能夠透過津貼方式來處理以外那我們也希望透過稅制的方式也一起來讓這些在偏鄉服務的醫事人員都能夠感受到政府對他們的付出另外一份的肯定那第二部分就要麻煩也要請司徒院長"},{"start":282.982,"end":309.085,"text":"一起來討論有關原住民健康資料庫的整合的部分剛剛趙偉其實也有跟院長做一些討論我們了解其實透過在112年正式施行了原住民原住民主健康法以後國衛院也在同年底就成立了原住民主健康研究中心這個中心裡面其實有三項非常重要的核心任務"},{"start":309.707,"end":336.312,"text":"就是第一要建構整合性的原住民族健康資料庫的平台來進行健康指標的建設與分析那第二部分就是推動以原住民族為主體的研究涵蓋了這個健康照護模式優化還有這個政策建言的提出第三個部分就是深化原住民族主題性的研究強調這個健康價值跟系列的實踐以實現健康自覺的目標"},{"start":337.673,"end":354.078,"text":"目前中心最重要的任務之一就是要擴展與維護原住民主的健康資料庫剛剛院長有稍微做一些說明其中我們其實非常關注的就是有關於資料的整合還有分析跟運用"},{"start":355.086,"end":379.309,"text":"所以也麻煩再請院長確認一下目前在這個數據的串接進度上面橫向串接不曉得完成度如何第一個那第二個就是說在處理過程裡面有沒有碰到法律或者是一些技術上的瓶頸那哪一些是正在進行當中還需要持續來處理的部分那這部分可不可以請院長先做個說明謝謝"},{"start":381.29,"end":403.356,"text":"謝謝謝謝委員那目前我們在過去一年半的時間那對資料庫的這個整理的工作事實上是背上我們過去從1998年就開始的從這個原住民族的相關的健保資料庫就醫的這些資訊還有他的包括死因跟癌症檔那我們現在試著再把"},{"start":404.136,"end":423.352,"text":"各項的這些資料做串接的時候事先的盤點大概基本的工作我們已經開始在進行串接的工作我們那個包括在我旁邊的我們院裡面的這個莊少委員莊博士他過去幾年非常多的這個對資料庫串接的工作的這個經驗我們已經陸陸續續在做橫向的串接"},{"start":426.895,"end":447.658,"text":"那法規的部分有些時候我們會碰到在使用上包括這個我們這個個案的這些隱私包括他這些個案的這些相關連結的部分這個是我們目前還在做有一些需要做克服的那技術的部分我們做橫向的連結是沒有問題"},{"start":448.539,"end":467.23,"text":"OK 了解 因為這些資料隱私性真的敏感度都非常非常的高所以在處理的部分就是一定要讓國會院這邊能夠做非常好的一些保護跟處理那我們知道將來在做這個研究對策應用的部分如何能夠將這個資料分析出來的結果"},{"start":468.251,"end":482.7,"text":"很精準的轉換到變成是偏鄉醫療資源數據的決策參考因為我們不知道我們知道這個不僅是讓這個資料庫裡面的數據放在資料庫裡面而已最重要還是後續的應用那我們以ICN篩檢數據為例"},{"start":485.222,"end":509.582,"text":"將來如果確定了可以知道哪一些的部分可以配置上有更好的使用的話就非常非常的重要比如說將來在偏鄉還剩的是個篩檢巡迴車的配置我們不知道到底目前哪一個地方是最需要透過這樣的數據庫的分析結果來加以改善那當然如果能夠把其他的部分一起整合進來的話"},{"start":510.623,"end":525.606,"text":"包括像兒童篩檢、成人健檢還有五大癌症的篩檢透過偏鄉一站式的服務的政策規劃那這部分可能就是需要應用到這個資料庫那這部分的應用不知道目前有沒有需要再加強哪一個部分"},{"start":529.092,"end":551.447,"text":"跟委員報告就是說關於國民健康署的癌症篩檢跟成人健檢的部分我們有針對原名鄉的部分再進行一次分析那在成人預防保健的部分就是原名鄉的這個使用利用率其實比起全國來說都還是來得高的不過在癌症篩檢的部分確實會有一些狀況不太一樣的情形"},{"start":551.887,"end":568.263,"text":"像是在大腸癌就跟全國平均是一樣可是在乳癌跟子宮頸癌的部分就比較偏低那我們會再針對這個數據去回饋給縣市跟縣市檢討如何去強化好 謝謝我想數據最重要的意義就是希望有好的運用"},{"start":569.003,"end":594.604,"text":"那我們希望讓這個運用可以符合在推政策的過程裡面將來可以有更好的成果謝謝署長也謝謝院長再過來想要跟部長討論就是有關於這個制定慢性病防治法的評估那剛好幾位長官都在這邊我們知道國務院在2023年其實就曾經發布一個後疫時代這個慢性病防治問題與對策那在這個"},{"start":598.927,"end":625.414,"text":"相關的這個出版品裡面我們也了解大家掌握到就是慢性病防治策略目前的現況就有下列這個幾個重點包括健保制度的檢討還有如何的調整還有確立這個初級預防評估的指標減少健康不平等引導國人來重視慢性病的風險還有落實慢性病的這個共管那也透過這樣的這個理解以後"},{"start":625.834,"end":648.155,"text":"致大慢性病風險的因素的類型有包括這幾個就是生活型態環境與社會性的因素心理健康關於因素還有生物遺傳因素等等那我們也了解這個政策來針對這些因素做處理的時候呢就會提出很多很多的一些相關政策包括"},{"start":648.675,"end":664.202,"text":"在健康臺灣裡面賴總統也非常關心如何能夠將三高的防治888計畫可以做落實的更好那其實在國連的十大時運裡面在前十大時運裡面有七項就是跟慢性病"},{"start":664.802,"end":685.983,"text":"是有關係的那在這個氣象裡面有五項又是跟傷膏有很密切的關係那整個醫療支出傷膏本身就耗用了我們的健保高達1700億這是非常重的一個負擔所以如果我們能夠把傷膏做得非常好"},{"start":686.764,"end":714.096,"text":"如果能夠透過法治法的方式來做相關的規範我相信應該會更有成效剛剛我們師分委員也非常的知道說類似的事情我們怎麼樣有更好的處理模式那新人代謝 代謝症候群的部分其實從2022年開始推動到目前有一共有3100家的診所我相信部長在擔任署長的時候也努力的去推動"},{"start":714.916,"end":743.496,"text":"還有5200位的醫師來參與超過142萬人透過這個方式來改善整體的他的三高的部分所以到目前為止在12萬人已經有至少追蹤管理有6個月以上的時間而且其中有37%是成功改善至少一項的指標還有17.8%成功的脫離了代謝症候選我相信對這個民眾來講應該是非常有感的一個部分"},{"start":744.196,"end":760.507,"text":"那在社會處方健康促進大家也都有努力包括部長也在推健康幣等等的措施所以意思就是說在這麼多的防治政策裡面那如果我們參考之前的營養跟健康飲食防治法讓它法治化"},{"start":761.227,"end":775.598,"text":"相信相信透過法治化以後對於這些慢性病的防治會有更大的一個幫助那也更有所依選那我們最後來看一下關於起動這個慢性病防治法的原理過程當中"},{"start":776.739,"end":800.853,"text":"如果將來希望能夠更確實的來落實這項想法或者是做法的話那以國會院他們在合併跟其他的專家學者在2025年有一個相關希望能夠踢卡雷米的台北宣言來落實三高政策的這個幫助包括風險分級精準醫療數位管理跟餘命"},{"start":801.953,"end":817.725,"text":"提升了這個願景之下我們認為這個法治法是非常迫切需要的那針對這部分不知道部長有沒有特別的想法或者是有機會來讓這樣的法治法可以有進一步的推動"},{"start":818.345,"end":841.414,"text":"好 謝謝委員 不僅是癌症的專家對慢性病的防治也這麼的重視確實這個慢性病已經是我們這個國人的健康負荷裡面比這個癌症的負荷還要重的這disease burden來看是更重那麼確實應該要重視那我們也推出了多項的方案那麼但是要不要"},{"start":842.334,"end":867.618,"text":"專法的這個事情因為我們也要考慮到說其實我們很多的慢性病都有一些共通的common factor那像這個菸就是一個common factor所以我們已經有厭害防治法其實它跟這個慢性病有很高的關聯性另外慢性病跟營養也有關係所以我們也有已經有的就是營養及健康飲食促進法也有這個法"},{"start":867.918,"end":888.304,"text":"所以我們就要再來看看說這個慢性病防治法這個專法那麼它的scope還有跟其他的這個目前我們的整個相關的法律制定跟政策推動上那麼它的這個相關聯繫這我們來研究看看我們找一些專家學者大家來討論全盤的來做這個盤點這樣"},{"start":892.128,"end":895.736,"text":"好 那就大家一起努力好 好 謝謝副總 謝謝謝謝王政訓委員現在除了臨時"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}